From pug at pug.net Tue May 1 02:56:56 2001 From: pug at pug.net (Pug Bainter) Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 19:56:56 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Site-Wide SPAM rejection confusion... Message-ID: <20010430195656.E18587@stardock.pug.net> Good Morning, I recently started trying to figure out the site-wide SPAM handling in SpamDetect.py and I have a few questions. First, it appears that I got the header SPAM prevention done correctly. Unfortunately I can't get the message body SPAM prevention done correctly. If I have something like the following: ('None', 'Snowhite was turning'), within the KNOWN_SPAMMERS area, it doesn't discard the SPAM. Am I missing something very basic? Second, should I have to build the SpamDetect.pyc file or is it supposed to be autobuilt? It isn't being autobuilt like the mm_cfg.pyc is. Second, what is the 'spam' directory for? I couldn't find reference to it anywhere. Thanks a lot folks! Ciao, -- Pug Bainter | AMD, Inc. System Engineer, MTS | Mail Stop 625 Pug.Bainter at amd.com | pug at pug.net | 5900 E. Ben White Blvd Phone: (512) 602-0364 | Fax: (512) 602-6970 | Austin, TX 78741 Note: The views may not reflect my employers, or even my own for that matter. From dmick at utopia.West.Sun.COM Tue May 1 03:11:53 2001 From: dmick at utopia.West.Sun.COM (Dan Mick) Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 18:11:53 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Mailman-Users] Site-Wide SPAM rejection confusion... Message-ID: <200105010111.SAA01489@utopia.West.Sun.COM> > Good Morning, > > I recently started trying to figure out the site-wide SPAM handling > in SpamDetect.py and I have a few questions. > > First, it appears that I got the header SPAM prevention done correctly. > Unfortunately I can't get the message body SPAM prevention done > correctly. If I have something like the following: > > ('None', 'Snowhite was turning'), > > within the KNOWN_SPAMMERS area, it doesn't discard the SPAM. Am I > missing something very basic? What's your exact syntax for that KNOWN_SPAMMERS line? > Second, should I have to build the SpamDetect.pyc file or is it > supposed to be autobuilt? It isn't being autobuilt like the mm_cfg.pyc > is. It should be autobuilt. Maybe there's a bug in the Python and you're getting error logs? > Second, what is the 'spam' directory for? I couldn't find reference to > it anywhere. Seems to be an evolutionary dead-end. Never seen it used either. From pug at pug.net Tue May 1 03:15:24 2001 From: pug at pug.net (Pug Bainter) Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 20:15:24 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Site-Wide SPAM rejection confusion... In-Reply-To: <200105010111.SAA01489@utopia.West.Sun.COM>; from dmick@utopia.West.Sun.COM on Mon, Apr 30, 2001 at 06:11:53PM -0700 References: <200105010111.SAA01489@utopia.West.Sun.COM> Message-ID: <20010430201524.A18746@stardock.pug.net> Dan Mick (dmick at utopia.West.Sun.COM) said something that sounded like: > > First, it appears that I got the header SPAM prevention done correctly. > > Unfortunately I can't get the message body SPAM prevention done > > correctly. If I have something like the following: > > ('None', 'Snowhite was turning'), > > within the KNOWN_SPAMMERS area, it doesn't discard the SPAM. Am I > > missing something very basic? > What's your exact syntax for that KNOWN_SPAMMERS line? Here we go: KNOWN_SPAMMERS = [('from', 'hahaha at sexyfun.net'), ('subject', 'ndn:'), ('subject', 'rcpt:'), ('subject', 'delivery confirmation'), ('subject', 'non-delivery of:'), ('subject', 'undeliverable'), ('subject', 'receipt confirmation'), ('subject', 'failed mail' ), ('subject', 'returned mail'), ('subject', 'unable to deliver m ail'), ('subject', 'away from my mail'), ('subject', 'autoreply'), ('subject', 'cc:mail'), ('subject', 'ccmail'), ('subject', 'mail failure'), ('subject', 'autoresponse'), ('subject', 'delivery.*notification'), ('subject', 'printer to ner'), ('subject', 'error sending mail'), ('None', 'happy99'), ('None', 'ska.exe'), ('None', 'ska.dll'), ('None', 'yahoo.*auto response'), ('None', 'deliver failure re port'), ('None', 'deliver problem notification'), ('None', 'vacation r eply'), ('None', 'david ross'), ('None', 'mike bender'), ('None', 'twenty-two points, plus triple-word-score'), ('None', 'i received your email and I shall send you a reply a sap'), ('None', 'till then, take a look at the attached zipped docs') , ('None', 'urgent info inside. disregard macro warning.'), ('None', 'you have been infected with hiv'), ('None', 'Snowhit e was turning'), ('None', 'have fun with these links'), ('None', 'newsgroup autoposter 95'), ('None', 'www.xxxsizzle.c om'), ('None', 'www.gai.co.kr'), ('None', 'www.edemocracy.org'), ('None', 'http://www.jmls.edu/cyber/statutes/email/fedtable.ht ml'), ('None', 'freebizlinks.net'), ('None', 'laszouadszasd.com'), ('None', 'http://www.house.gov/writerep'), ('None', 'good luck totem'), ('None', 'if you forward to 11 pe ople'), ('None', 'benchmark supply'), ('None', 'toner cartridges'), ('None', 'printer toner'), ('None', '770-399-0953'), ('None', '800-725-2161'), ('None', '800-586-0540'), ('None', '888-532-7170'), ('None', '770-698-9700'), ('None', '888-532-8842'), ('None', '888-800-6339')] > > Second, should I have to build the SpamDetect.pyc file or is it > > supposed to be autobuilt? It isn't being autobuilt like the mm_cfg.pyc > > is. > It should be autobuilt. Maybe there's a bug in the Python and you're > getting error logs? No errors in the errorlog after I fixed a typo. I forgot a close paren. >From a google search I found that it gets autobuilt if it doesn't exist. I deleted it and it got autocreated. > > Second, what is the 'spam' directory for? I couldn't find reference to > > it anywhere. > Seems to be an evolutionary dead-end. Never seen it used either. Got it. Ciao, -- Pug Bainter | AMD, Inc. System Engineer, MTS | Mail Stop 625 Pug.Bainter at amd.com | pug at pug.net | 5900 E. Ben White Blvd Phone: (512) 602-0364 | Fax: (512) 602-6970 | Austin, TX 78741 Note: The views may not reflect my employers, or even my own for that matter. From marc_news at valinux.com Tue May 1 03:17:55 2001 From: marc_news at valinux.com (Marc MERLIN) Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 18:17:55 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Site-Wide SPAM rejection confusion... In-Reply-To: <200105010111.SAA01489@utopia.West.Sun.COM>; from dmick@utopia.West.Sun.COM on Mon, Apr 30, 2001 at 06:11:53PM -0700 References: <200105010111.SAA01489@utopia.West.Sun.COM> Message-ID: <20010430181755.K32211@magic.merlins.org> On Mon, Apr 30, 2001 at 06:11:53PM -0700, Dan Mick wrote: > > Second, what is the 'spam' directory for? I couldn't find reference to > > it anywhere. > > Seems to be an evolutionary dead-end. Never seen it used either. When you reject a message, and check the box to keep a copy it goes in the spam directory IIRC. Marc -- Microsoft is to operating systems & security .... .... what McDonalds is to gourmet cooking Home page: http://marc.merlins.org/ | Finger marc_f at merlins.org for PGP key From dmick at utopia.West.Sun.COM Tue May 1 03:23:09 2001 From: dmick at utopia.West.Sun.COM (Dan Mick) Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 18:23:09 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Mailman-Users] Site-Wide SPAM rejection confusion... Message-ID: <200105010123.SAA01947@utopia.West.Sun.COM> > Dan Mick (dmick at utopia.West.Sun.COM) said something that sounded like: > > > First, it appears that I got the header SPAM prevention done correctly. > > > Unfortunately I can't get the message body SPAM prevention done > > > correctly. If I have something like the following: > > > ('None', 'Snowhite was turning'), > > > within the KNOWN_SPAMMERS area, it doesn't discard the SPAM. Am I > > > missing something very basic? Yes, and so did I at first. Don't quote the None. None is a magic "no object" item; the comparison is "if header is None", not "if header is 'None'". From yuri at imediation.com Tue May 1 03:26:42 2001 From: yuri at imediation.com (Yuri Desyatnik) Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 18:26:42 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help Message-ID: <3AEE10D2.56DF52DB@imediation.com> I am running Mailman with Postfix. Attached, is a segment of my syslog file when I try to email to the Mailman server. Any thoughts? Yuri -------------- next part -------------- May 1 01:18:37 shiva postfix/smtpd[15242]: [ID 197553 mail.info] connect from unknown[172.30.20.6] May 1 01:18:37 shiva postfix/smtpd[15242]: [ID 197553 mail.info] 6F2835CFED: client=unknown[172.30.20.6] May 1 01:18:37 shiva postfix/cleanup[15243]: [ID 197553 mail.info] 6F2835CFED: message-id=<3AEE0F4B.A9A14A8A at imediation.com> May 1 01:18:37 shiva postfix/smtpd[15242]: [ID 197553 mail.info] disconnect from unknown[172.30.20.6] May 1 01:18:37 shiva postfix/qmgr[15240]: [ID 197553 mail.info] 6F2835CFED: from=, size=1961, nrcpt=1 (queue active) Apr 30 18:18:37 shiva postfix/local[15245]: [ID 947731 mail.warning] warning: dict_nis_init: NIS domain name not set - NIS lookups disabled Apr 30 18:18:37 shiva postfix/local[15245]: [ID 197553 mail.info] 6F2835CFED: to=, relay=local, delay=0, status=bounced (unknown user: "test-request") May 1 01:18:37 shiva postfix/cleanup[15243]: [ID 197553 mail.info] 9DDF45CFEF: message-id=<20010501011837.9DDF45CFEF at mailman.server.imediation.com> May 1 01:18:37 shiva postfix/qmgr[15240]: [ID 197553 mail.info] 9DDF45CFEF: from=<>, size=3720, nrcpt=1 (queue active) May 1 01:18:37 shiva postfix/smtp[15247]: [ID 947731 mail.crit] fatal: unknown service: smtp/tcp May 1 01:18:38 shiva postfix/qmgr[15240]: [ID 947731 mail.warning] warning: end of input while receiving string data from service private/smtp May 1 01:18:38 shiva postfix/qmgr[15240]: [ID 947731 mail.warning] warning: private/smtp: malformed response Apr 30 18:18:38 shiva postfix/master[15176]: [ID 947731 mail.warning] warning: process /usr/local/postfix/libexec/postfix/smtp pid 15247 exit status 1 Apr 30 18:18:38 shiva postfix/master[15176]: [ID 947731 mail.warning] warning: /usr/local/postfix/libexec/postfix/smtp: bad command startup -- throttling From pug at pug.net Tue May 1 03:23:42 2001 From: pug at pug.net (Pug Bainter) Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 20:23:42 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Site-Wide SPAM rejection confusion... In-Reply-To: <200105010123.SAA01947@utopia.West.Sun.COM>; from dmick@utopia.West.Sun.COM on Mon, Apr 30, 2001 at 06:23:09PM -0700 References: <200105010123.SAA01947@utopia.West.Sun.COM> Message-ID: <20010430202342.B18884@stardock.pug.net> Dan Mick (dmick at utopia.West.Sun.COM) said something that sounded like: >>>> First, it appears that I got the header SPAM prevention done correctly. >>>> Unfortunately I can't get the message body SPAM prevention done >>>> correctly. If I have something like the following: >>>> ('None', 'Snowhite was turning'), >>>> within the KNOWN_SPAMMERS area, it doesn't discard the SPAM. Am I >>>> missing something very basic? > Yes, and so did I at first. > Don't quote the None. None is a magic "no object" item; > the comparison is "if header is None", not "if header is 'None'". Doh! How odd to change it like that. Ciao, -- Pug Bainter | AMD, Inc. System Engineer, MTS | Mail Stop 625 Pug.Bainter at amd.com | pug at pug.net | 5900 E. Ben White Blvd Phone: (512) 602-0364 | Fax: (512) 602-6970 | Austin, TX 78741 Note: The views may not reflect my employers, or even my own for that matter. From dmick at utopia.West.Sun.COM Tue May 1 03:31:00 2001 From: dmick at utopia.West.Sun.COM (Dan Mick) Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 18:31:00 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help Message-ID: <200105010130.SAA02437@utopia.West.Sun.COM> > I am running Mailman with Postfix. Attached, is a segment of my syslog > file when I try to email to the Mailman server. > > Any thoughts? Yes, but let's play a game first. What do you think "unknown user: "test-request" might mean? From marc_news at valinux.com Tue May 1 07:54:59 2001 From: marc_news at valinux.com (Marc MERLIN) Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 22:54:59 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] the meaning of "implicit destination" In-Reply-To: <3AEDD62B.F59F10F5@dpd1.com>; from carol@dpd1.com on Mon, Apr 30, 2001 at 02:16:27PM -0700 References: <3AEDD62B.F59F10F5@dpd1.com> Message-ID: <20010430225459.E914@magic.merlins.org> On Mon, Apr 30, 2001 at 02:16:27PM -0700, Carol wrote: > I have set "No" to this option: Check postings and intercept ones that > seem to be administrative requests. > When I post to my list (called Testlist) I get the following message. > > Your mail to 'Testlist' with the subject > test no. 5 > Is being held until the list moderator can review it for > approval. > The reason it is being held: > Message has implicit destination This means that the list's name is not in the To or Cc headers. Either you're using an alias of the list, or some other domain that doesn't match the list's idea of the right domain Marc -- Microsoft is to operating systems & security .... .... what McDonalds is to gourmet cooking Home page: http://marc.merlins.org/ | Finger marc_f at merlins.org for PGP key From barry at digicool.com Tue May 1 09:50:59 2001 From: barry at digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw) Date: Tue, 1 May 2001 03:50:59 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman-checkins list config? References: <4.2.2.20010428103824.00b19bd0@pop.mindspring.com> Message-ID: <15086.27363.991458.875599@anthem.wooz.org> >>>>> "MN" == Mike Noyes writes: MN> What settings are you using for the mailman-checkins list? I'm MN> trying to duplicate your results for our project's cvs-commits MN> list. Any help is appreciated. Thanks. MN> Background: I'm using syncmail (v3.1.5 by Barry Warsaw) for MN> our project's cvs-commits list. I'll update to v3.1.6 later MN> today. I followed the SourceForge documentation to set it up, MN> but it doesn't have any information on the proper settings for MN> Mailman. Should I take this up with the SourceForge staff MN> instead? MN> Getting email from CVS MN> https://sourceforge.net/docman/display_doc.php?docid=772&group_id=1 Wow, neat. I didn't even realize syncmail was Officially Documented. BTW, I think you mean version 3.16 of syncmail, which is the latest committed version that both the Mailman and Python projects use. On the list configuration side, you can basically use a very generic Mailman list. python-checkins and mailman-checkins are both wide open. Have you tried it, and does it work? If not, what happens? -Barry From barry at digicool.com Tue May 1 09:51:31 2001 From: barry at digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw) Date: Tue, 1 May 2001 03:51:31 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Dumping emails based on subject rather than holding them? References: <20010428141524.V291@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <15086.27395.801134.987831@anthem.wooz.org> >>>>> "BB" == Bill Bradford writes: BB> I host a list (sunmanagers) where direct replies to the list BB> are not permitted - only initial question posts, and then BB> summary posts with answers. So, every 3-4 days, even though BB> reply-to is set to the original poster, I have to go in and BB> delete 20-30 Re: messages through the admin interface. BB> Is there a way to have Mailman just *dump* these, instead of BB> holding them for review? Would make life a lot simpler... Not yet, but it's planned for 2.1. -Barry From barry at digicool.com Tue May 1 09:53:43 2001 From: barry at digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw) Date: Tue, 1 May 2001 03:53:43 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Subscribe/unsubscribe interface References: <20010429080904.V29395-100000@phred.org> <6864.988566371@kanga.nu> Message-ID: <15086.27527.147234.215559@anthem.wooz.org> >>>>> "JCL" == J C Lawrence writes: >> Not exactly. We'd like a screen listing all the lists with >> subscribe and unsubscribe radio buttons beside each. Lists to >> which the user was already subscribed to be differentiated in >> some way. JCL> Seems like a CGI that walked ~mailman/lists/*/config.db JCL> looking for public lists under the appropriate VHost followed JCL> by sending a subscribe email to every checked radio button JCL> would be fairly trivial to write. Shouldn't take you more JCL> than a couple hours. And please contribute it back if you do it! :) -Barry From barry at digicool.com Tue May 1 09:59:03 2001 From: barry at digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw) Date: Tue, 1 May 2001 03:59:03 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] international version of mailman References: <3AEDAF9F.E7FC550D@esc.edu.ar> Message-ID: <15086.27847.321250.450800@anthem.wooz.org> >>>>> "GF" == Gaston Franco writes: GF> Hi! We've been waiting for more than a year for the GF> international version of Mailman.... is there any chance that GF> it?ll be realeased soon? I know that there?s some support in GF> 2.1 alpha version, but i?d like a final release. It's getting there, but I've got no ETA. On the plus side, I'll be spending some focussed time on Mailman over the next several weeks, so expect to see some good progress. On the downside, I'm personally still not using it for Real Lists yet, although I hope to update a few of my own lists this month. -Barry From barry at digicool.com Tue May 1 10:03:26 2001 From: barry at digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw) Date: Tue, 1 May 2001 04:03:26 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Site-Wide SPAM rejection confusion... References: <200105010111.SAA01489@utopia.West.Sun.COM> <20010430181755.K32211@magic.merlins.org> Message-ID: <15086.28110.416306.594895@anthem.wooz.org> >>>>> "MM" == Marc MERLIN writes: MM> When you reject a message, and check the box to keep a copy it MM> goes in the spam directory IIRC. Correct. See __handlepost() in Mailman/ListAdmin.py. -Barry From barry at digicool.com Tue May 1 11:20:32 2001 From: barry at digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw) Date: Tue, 1 May 2001 05:20:32 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] List policy changed Message-ID: <15086.32736.621157.498713@anthem.wooz.org> As promised, now that it's May 1st, I've changed the list posting policy to members only. Let's see how this goes. To those of you who volunteered to help moderate the list, I want to feel the pain first :). I'll let you know if it gets badd and need your help. Your offers are greatly appreciated! -Barry From pietlek at linux-pl.com Tue May 1 11:37:41 2001 From: pietlek at linux-pl.com (Piotr Janik) Date: Tue, 1 May 2001 11:37:41 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem, like always. Message-ID: <20010501113741.B30811@linux-pl.com> bounce log: May 01 10:56:02 2001 (30545) Rzlug: pietlek at wist.com.pl - 3 more allowed over 431887 secs May 01 11:00:02 2001 (30569) Rzlug: pietlek at wist.com.pl - 2 more allowed over 431647 secs May 01 11:01:02 2001 (30600) Rzlug: pietlek at wist.com.pl - 1 more allowed over 431587 secs May 01 11:11:02 2001 (30662) Rzlug: pietlek at wist.com.pl - 0 more allowed over 430987 secs May 01 11:11:02 2001 (30662) Rzlug: pietlek at wist.com.pl - 0 more allowed over 430987 secs May 01 11:13:01 2001 (30692) Rzlug: pietlek at wist.com.pl - 0 more allowed over 430868 secs May 01 11:15:02 2001 (30739) Rzlug: pietlek at wist.com.pl - 0 more allowed over 430747 secs May 01 11:18:36 2001 (30775) Rzlug: pietlek at wist.com.pl - 0 more allowed over 430533 secs what's wrong When I'm posting to the list, posts go only to the local users. pietlek at wist.com.pl, another server. I'm using QMAIL. Thx, for any help. -- [[[[[ Piotr =Pietlek= Janik ]]]]] { $adm='linux-pl.com'; $mail='pietlek at linux-pl.com'; } { $IRCNet='Pietlek(#linuxpl,#jazzda,#php)'; } ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ From marc.loosli at lan.ch Tue May 1 12:15:48 2001 From: marc.loosli at lan.ch (Marc Loosli) Date: Tue, 1 May 2001 12:15:48 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Python error Message-ID: <84A52F6BF9BBD411A0000002A508CD64227CF5@lyss-exch-3.lan.intra> I become by all python script's the follow error: python admin.py Traceback (innermost last): File "admin.py", line 27, in ? from Mailman import Utils ImportError: No module named Mailman Have you a solutions ? Best Regards Marc Loosli From rclayton at aprisma.com Tue May 1 13:20:27 2001 From: rclayton at aprisma.com (Clayton, Robert) Date: Tue, 1 May 2001 07:20:27 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mime Stripper Message-ID: <5B628B202658D411AD8700508B7869F8038FE0DE@mailhost.aprisma.com> Does anyone know of a good Mime Stripper that can work with the latest Sendmail? It would be for a Solaris 2.8 system. From pug at pug.net Tue May 1 14:24:20 2001 From: pug at pug.net (Pug Bainter) Date: Tue, 1 May 2001 07:24:20 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mime Stripper In-Reply-To: <5B628B202658D411AD8700508B7869F8038FE0DE@mailhost.aprisma.com>; from rclayton@aprisma.com on Tue, May 01, 2001 at 07:20:27AM -0400 References: <5B628B202658D411AD8700508B7869F8038FE0DE@mailhost.aprisma.com> Message-ID: <20010501072420.A20103@stardock.pug.net> Clayton, Robert (rclayton at aprisma.com) said something that sounded like: > Does anyone know of a good Mime Stripper that can work with the latest Sendmail? The one I am using, which should work with any sendmail, is at: http://www.phred.org/~alex/stripmime.html The only problem with this, until I find a way of doing it, is that smrsh doesn't deal with pipelines in aliases. (eg. |stripmime.pl|wrapper) Ciao, -- Pug Bainter | AMD, Inc. System Engineer, MTS | Mail Stop 625 Pug.Bainter at amd.com | pug at pug.net | 5900 E. Ben White Blvd Phone: (512) 602-0364 | Fax: (512) 602-6970 | Austin, TX 78741 Note: The views may not reflect my employers, or even my own for that matter. From mhnoyes at users.sourceforge.net Tue May 1 15:46:48 2001 From: mhnoyes at users.sourceforge.net (Mike Noyes) Date: Tue, 01 May 2001 06:46:48 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman-checkins list config? In-Reply-To: <15086.27363.991458.875599@anthem.wooz.org> References: <4.2.2.20010428103824.00b19bd0@pop.mindspring.com> Message-ID: <4.2.2.20010501062132.00a5cf00@pop.mindspring.com> At 2001-05-01 03:50 -0400, Barry A. Warsaw wrote: > >>>>> "MN" == Mike Noyes writes: > > MN> What settings are you using for the mailman-checkins list? I'm > MN> trying to duplicate your results for our project's cvs-commits > MN> list. Any help is appreciated. Thanks. > > MN> Background: I'm using syncmail (v3.1.5 by Barry Warsaw) for > MN> our project's cvs-commits list. I'll update to v3.1.6 later > MN> today. I followed the SourceForge documentation to set it up, > MN> but it doesn't have any information on the proper settings for > MN> Mailman. Should I take this up with the SourceForge staff > MN> instead? > > MN> Getting email from CVS > MN> https://sourceforge.net/docman/display_doc.php?docid=772&group_id=1 > >Wow, neat. I didn't even realize syncmail was Officially Documented. > >BTW, I think you mean version 3.16 of syncmail, which is the latest >committed version that both the Mailman and Python projects use. > >On the list configuration side, you can basically use a very generic >Mailman list. python-checkins and mailman-checkins are both wide >open. > >Have you tried it, and does it work? If not, what happens? Barry, Yes it works well. I tested it right after installation. :) http://www.mail-archive.com/leaf-cvs-commits%40lists.sourceforge.net/ I guess I didn't phrase my question well. How do I configure Mailman to only accept posts from CVS? Should I use the implicitly approved people list for this? Currently our list is moderated, and anyone can subscribe. Note: we have multiple developers that will be committing to our CVS repository. Also, I didn't get around to updating to syncmail 3.16 yet. I'll try to get that done today. Thanks for the great script. :) -- Mike Noyes http://leaf.sourceforge.net/ From phil at phil-taylor.com Tue May 1 17:50:09 2001 From: phil at phil-taylor.com (Phil Taylor) Date: Tue, 1 May 2001 16:50:09 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Users] RaQ3 Message-ID: Is anyone running MailMan on a Cobalt Raq3 server? Any things I should know?? Any problems? Phil. From cwieland at uci.edu Tue May 1 17:59:19 2001 From: cwieland at uci.edu (Con Wieland) Date: Tue, 1 May 2001 08:59:19 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Need help with the headers Message-ID: Hello I'am new to this and just received my monthly subscription reminder from the lists I am on, however the sender, error-to, and x-beenthere addresses are test at domain and not the list or the site administrative address. Any help on where to look would be greatly appreciated. TIA Con Wieland UC Irvine From claw at kanga.nu Tue May 1 18:22:11 2001 From: claw at kanga.nu (J C Lawrence) Date: Tue, 01 May 2001 09:22:11 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mime Stripper In-Reply-To: Message from "Clayton, Robert" of "Tue, 01 May 2001 07:20:27 EDT." <5B628B202658D411AD8700508B7869F8038FE0DE@mailhost.aprisma.com> References: <5B628B202658D411AD8700508B7869F8038FE0DE@mailhost.aprisma.com> Message-ID: <5228.988734131@kanga.nu> On Tue, 1 May 2001 07:20:27 -0400 Robert Clayton wrote: > Does anyone know of a good Mime Stripper that can work with the > latest Sendmail? demime is the usual tool used: http://scifi.squawk.com/demime.html stripmime is another contender: http://www.phred.org/~alex/stripmime.html -- J C Lawrence claw at kanga.nu ---------(*) http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/ --=| A man is as sane as he is dangerous to his environment |=-- From wildwayz at clara.co.uk Tue May 1 18:38:30 2001 From: wildwayz at clara.co.uk (James Kapherr) Date: Tue, 1 May 2001 17:38:30 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mime Stripper In-Reply-To: <5228.988734131@kanga.nu> Message-ID: Hi, Does anyone know how to stop this "Blind carbon copies or other implicit destinations are not allowed. Try reposting your message by explicitly including the list address in the To: or Cc: fields." Every email that is sent to the mailing list gets bounced for admin approval. The emails ARE sent in the TO: field - so I am not sure why it gives this error. Any ideas? James -----Original Message----- From: mailman-users-admin at python.org [mailto:mailman-users-admin at python.org]On Behalf Of J C Lawrence Sent: 01 May 2001 17:22 To: Clayton, Robert Cc: mailman-users at python.org Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Mime Stripper On Tue, 1 May 2001 07:20:27 -0400 Robert Clayton wrote: > Does anyone know of a good Mime Stripper that can work with the > latest Sendmail? demime is the usual tool used: http://scifi.squawk.com/demime.html stripmime is another contender: http://www.phred.org/~alex/stripmime.html -- J C Lawrence claw at kanga.nu ---------(*) http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/ --=| A man is as sane as he is dangerous to his environment |=-- ------------------------------------------------------ Mailman-Users maillist - Mailman-Users at python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users From dairiki at matthews.dairiki.org Tue May 1 18:39:35 2001 From: dairiki at matthews.dairiki.org (Jeff Dairiki) Date: Tue, 01 May 2001 09:39:35 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mime Stripper In-Reply-To: Message from J C Lawrence of "Tue, 01 May 2001 09:22:11 PDT." <5228.988734131@kanga.nu> Message-ID: <200105011639.f41GdZQ24088@matthews.dairiki.org> >Robert Clayton wrote: > >> Does anyone know of a good Mime Stripper that can work with the >> latest Sendmail? Also note I've posted a de-Miming patch for Mailman. (SourceForge patch #413752.) See: http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&aid=413752&group_id=103&atid=300103 Jeff From wildwayz at clara.co.uk Tue May 1 18:46:50 2001 From: wildwayz at clara.co.uk (James Kapherr) Date: Tue, 1 May 2001 17:46:50 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Oops - Message has implicit destination In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Oops - hit reply instead of NEW so my post came under someone elses heading. Soz for reposting. ===== Hi, Does anyone know how to stop this "Blind carbon copies or other implicit destinations are not allowed. Try reposting your message by explicitly including the list address in the To: or Cc: fields." Every email that is sent to the mailing list gets bounced for admin approval. The emails ARE sent in the TO: field - so I am not sure why it gives this error. Any ideas? James From mailman at howlingfrog.com Tue May 1 19:35:17 2001 From: mailman at howlingfrog.com (Graham TerMarsch) Date: Tue, 1 May 2001 10:35:17 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Admin pages horribly slow... Message-ID: <0105011035170A.13844@graham.localdomain> Well, sorta managed to solve the problem that I was having with the stale lockfiles. General consensus on responses seemed to be "erase the stale lockfiles", rather than helping provide any information on how to prevent them in the first place. SO, I ended up setting up a script to watch for stale locks and remove them as soon as it finds any. HOWEVER, I'm now running into another situation that I'm looking for suggestions on. With Mailman-2.0.1 and a 65k subscriber list, _all_ of the administrative pages are horribly slow to load. Even the initial "subscribe" pages that people post to when adding themselves to the list are slow. I ended up having to crank up the webserver timeouts to 20 minutes to try to avoid the dangling lockfile problem, and quite frequently I can sit there waiting over a minute for one of the administrative pages to generate. Isn't a high traffic list, though; only gets at most one posting a day. Any suggestions on how to fine-tune the lockfile timeouts or other internal Mailman settings to try to increase the performance of the admin scripts? -- Graham TerMarsch From khj at cs.appstate.edu Tue May 1 20:40:19 2001 From: khj at cs.appstate.edu (Kenneth Jacker) Date: 01 May 2001 14:40:19 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: Prohibiting Local Access to Archives In-Reply-To: barry@digicool.com's message of "Fri, 27 Apr 2001 17:38:09 -0400" References: <15081.59073.505199.245893@anthem.wooz.org> Message-ID: Just a quick note to thank all of those who replied to my query. A lot of good ideas! Once I get through final exams, I'll try your suggestions. In addition, I'll send a summary to the mailing list. Thanks again, -- Prof Kenneth H Jacker khj at cs.appstate.edu Computer Science Dept www.cs.appstate.edu/~khj Appalachian State Univ Boone, NC 28608 USA From bruno at postle.net Tue May 1 21:51:15 2001 From: bruno at postle.net (Bruno Postle) Date: Tue, 1 May 2001 20:51:15 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Users] RaQ3 In-Reply-To: ; from phil@phil-taylor.com on Tue, May 01, 2001 at 04:50:09PM +0100 References: Message-ID: <20010501205115.D1037@postle.net> On Tue 01-May-2001 at 04:50:09PM +0100, Phil Taylor wrote: > Is anyone running MailMan on a Cobalt Raq3 server? > > Any things I should know?? - You won't get the web-interface working with the cobalt cgi-wrappers, so set up http.conf for your mailman domain without them. - python might need to be upgraded. - The sendmail wrappers need to be in /usr/adm/sm.bin/ > Any problems? Lots of RaQ owners have had problems with bind-8.2.2 Bruno -- http://bruno.postle.net/ From steve at vision-games.com Tue May 1 22:02:59 2001 From: steve at vision-games.com (steve at vision-games.com) Date: Tue, 1 May 2001 16:02:59 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Setting up Message-ID: I'm trying to set up a news list where only admins can post. I want to be able to change the welcome email messages in order to remove the prompt about where to post messages. How can I set this list up as a non-discussion list? -Steve White Co-Founder Vision Games From barry at digicool.com Tue May 1 22:40:42 2001 From: barry at digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw) Date: Tue, 1 May 2001 16:40:42 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Big problems with stale lockfiles on large list... References: <0104271309330S.08359@graham.localdomain> <009c01c0cf5b$3165c2a0$01000001@sgergo.hu> <01042715193211.08359@graham.localdomain> Message-ID: <15087.8010.821127.647320@anthem.wooz.org> I'm CC'ing Mailman developers because I want to get some feedback from the Unix hackers amonst us; apologies for duplicates... >> We also experienced similar problems in the past with large >> lists. We found that if the admin is accessing the long and >> slow-loading members admin pages, and does not wait for the >> page to complete (e.g. clicks one of the admin links or hits >> refresh or stop) the lock will remain. As a temporary solution >> we have instructed our admins to wait for all pages to >> completely load, no stale locks since then. This is on a Cobalt >> RaQ4i (Redhat) with Apache 1.3x. Hope this helps, >>>>> "GT" == Graham TerMarsch writes: GT> Is probably related to what we're experiencing, but I'm GT> finding that even just due to the volume of hits on the GT> "subscribe" page, that we're having this problem. While GT> testing, I made sure that we had _no_ accesses to admin pages, GT> and that all of the "subscribe" hits that were coming through GT> waited for the complete response and didn't time out or have GT> the "stop" button pressed. Even in this scenario, I still GT> ended up with stale locks lingering around. [...] GT> Would it be correct to say that if the CGI process dies for GT> some unforseen reason (e.g. Apache kills it off because the GT> user pressed the "stop" button or the HTTP connection timed GT> out), that the lock from that process gets left around as a GT> lingering lock? After an all night hacking jag, lots of google searches, a re-read of Stevens Ch.10, and a short conversation with Guido, I believe I know what's going on. That's the good news. The bad news is that I don't think there's a perfect solution, but there probably is a better solution. FTR, here's my development environment: Apache 1.3.19, Python 2.1, RH6.2-ish, kernel 2.2.18, NS 4.74, and the current Mailman 2.1 CVS snapshot. Here's what I did: I loaded up a list with 60000 subscribers, then went to the members page. It did indeed take a long time, and if I let it run to completion, I get the page as expected and no locks. However, if I hit the stop button before the page is finished loading, I can see that the CGI process continues to run for a while and then it may or may not clear the locks. The page is not complete. Since sometimes the locks are cleared and sometimes they're left, it's pretty clear there are race conditions involved. I did a bit of web searching and here's what I think a stock Apache mod_cgi is supposed to do in this situation: - The user hits the stop button on the browser. The client will close the socket, which is usually eventually recognized by the server. - The cgi script meanwhile is merrily doing some long calculations, and eventually it will try to write output. It's at this point that it may be possible to detect that the socket has gone away. What's interesting is that it appears that the cgi script actually writes output to the parent Apache process, which perhaps buffers the output before sending to the client. In any event, it's the Apache parent process that gets a SIGPIPE indicating the socket it's writing to is closed. - Apache catches the SIGPIPE, turns around and sends a SIGTERM to the cgi process. Apache waits three seconds and if the cgi hasn't exited yet, it sends a SIGKILL. The default behavior for SIGTERM is to terminate the process, so whether it's the SIGTERM or SIGKILL that does the dirty work, in the end, the naive cgi script can get summarily killed without a chance at clean up. Enter Python. Python installs a few of its own signal handlers, most notably for SIGINT which it maps to the KeyboardInterrupt exception. Normally though, SIGTERM isn't caught by Python, so again, the naive Python cgi script will summarily die when receiving a SIGTERM. Under mod_cgi, even catching SIGTERM may not help if more than 3 seconds of processing occurs (I don't know if this is clock time or cpu time). Again, that's because Apache turns around and SIGKILLs the cgi, and that signal can't be caught (remember, this is what bit us a while back w.r.t. Postfix filter programs). So maybe the answer is to install a Python-level SIGTERM handler that will release the lock. To understand this, you need to know how Python handles signals. When you set a signal handler in Python, at the C level, Python installs its own signal handler, which simply sets a flag and returns. That's because Python will only run Python-level signal handlers in between bytecode boundaries. So your Python signal handler can get run at some arbitrary point in the future, and likely /not/ when the signal actually occurred. All this is very dodgy in the face of try/finally clauses, which is how cgi's like admin.py ensure that the mailing list is saved and unlocked when an exception occurs. For example, my initial solution was to install a signal handler that raised an exception, thinking that this would trigger the finally clause and do the normal save & unlock. But because of race conditions and interactions with the Python interpreter loop, I often saw that while the exception was getting raised, the finally clause wasn't always getting executed. Guido confirmed that this isn't a safe approach. So my next approach is to write a very minimal signal handler that only unlocks the list, and install this on SIGTERM. The trick is to make the signal handler, e.g. a nested function of main() in admin.py, and pass the MailList object into it using the default argument trick. This seems to work, in that the locks appear to be cleared in the cases where they were left laying around before. But because of all the race conditions, I can't be 100% sure. If you've read this far, the implication is that if the user hits the stop button, Mailman will in essence abort any changes to list configuration that this invocation may have made. Alternatively, we could try to save & unlock in the signal handler, but that raises the possibility of race conditions again. Also, it makes sense to move the save of the list data into the try: part of the clause and only do the unlocking in the finally. That way, the finally clause and the SIGTERM handler have the same semantics, and the list will get unlocked in the face of either an exception or a signal. But the list database will only get saved on sucessful completion of the task. I can live with those semantics (I think ;). So the code in admin.py looks something like: def main(): ... mlist = MailList.MailList(listname, lock=0) ... def sigterm_handler(signum, frame, mlist=mlist): mlist.Unlock() mlist.Lock() try: signal.signal(signal.SIGTERM, sigterm_handler) ... mlist.Save() finally: mlist.Unlock() I think there are still opportunities to get nailed, but I think this works as well as is possible. In my testing I've been able to clear the locks when the stop button is pushed. In the rare event that the list's config.db file gets corrupted (i.e. the handler gets called in the middle of mlist.Save()), we've always got the config.db.last file to fall back on. The other good news is that I think only admindb.py, admin.py, and confirm.py, need to be modified, since those are the only scripts that write to list attributes. I've been pretty diligent in Mailman 2.1 to only lock the mailing lists when necessary, so if the scripts are read-only, they don't acquire the lock (and get the state of the database as of the time of the initial Load()). Phew! -Barry From chuqui at plaidworks.com Wed May 2 05:25:28 2001 From: chuqui at plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach) Date: Tue, 01 May 2001 20:25:28 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Re: [Mailman-Users] Big problems with stale lockfiles on large list... In-Reply-To: <15087.8010.821127.647320@anthem.wooz.org> Message-ID: On 5/1/01 1:40 PM, "Barry A. Warsaw" wrote: > However, if I hit the stop button before the page is finished loading, > I can see that the CGI process continues to run for a while and then > it may or may not clear the locks. That would match something I've been seeing and sorta tring to debug (except it seems for me it only happens when I'm not watching, of course). And once someone hits stop and reloads, they hang waiting for a lock, and so do others -- and I can come in and check in a morning and see 50 broken locks for a list... > So my next approach is to write a very minimal signal handler that > only unlocks the list, and install this on SIGTERM. That's work, but I suggest an alternative, or a second item: when you try to set a lock, and one is set, see if the process that set the lock still exists (the info is available in the locks/ dir with a bit of poking). If that process is gone, delete the lock and move forward. That way, both sides of the equation can fix the problem if needed. > If you've read this far, the implication is that if the user hits the > stop button, Mailman will in essence abort any changes to list > configuration that this invocation may have made. As it should, IMHO. The only caveat, I think, is that you need to look through the code for places where breaking in the middle can leave you with incomplete or corrupted data, and protect those pieces from breakage, and handle the interrupt once you leave them. If you can be sure that won't happen, great. But I'd make double-sure... From barry at digicool.com Wed May 2 05:52:03 2001 From: barry at digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw) Date: Tue, 1 May 2001 23:52:03 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Re: [Mailman-Users] Big problems with stale lockfiles on large list... References: <15087.8010.821127.647320@anthem.wooz.org> Message-ID: <15087.33891.519070.907640@anthem.wooz.org> >>>>> "CVR" == Chuq Von Rospach writes: >> However, if I hit the stop button before the page is finished >> loading, I can see that the CGI process continues to run for a >> while and then it may or may not clear the locks. CVR> That would match something I've been seeing and sorta tring CVR> to debug (except it seems for me it only happens when I'm not CVR> watching, of course). Same here, the first 15 or so times I tried to recreate the bug. I had nearly as long a message already composed that contained a different evaluation and summarized as "works for me". Had to delete that and start over when I actually /did/ reproduce it. ;) >> So my next approach is to write a very minimal signal handler >> that only unlocks the list, and install this on SIGTERM. CVR> That's work, but I suggest an alternative, or a second item: CVR> when you try to set a lock, and one is set, see if the CVR> process that set the lock still exists (the info is available CVR> in the locks/ dir with a bit of poking). If that process is CVR> gone, delete the lock and move forward. CVR> That way, both sides of the equation can fix the problem if CVR> needed. I've avoid that because of NFS issues, i.e. if you've got multiple Mailman installations sharing an NFS partition, the pids aren't relevant. The program can't know that, but the sysadmin can, so I'm inclined to instead write a script that will zap old locks if their processes don't exist. That way the site admin can run those scripts as he sees appropriate based on his installation. >> If you've read this far, the implication is that if the user >> hits the stop button, Mailman will in essence abort any changes >> to list configuration that this invocation may have made. CVR> As it should, IMHO. The only caveat, I think, is that you CVR> need to look through the code for places where breaking in CVR> the middle can leave you with incomplete or corrupted data, CVR> and protect those pieces from breakage, and handle the CVR> interrupt once you leave them. CVR> If you can be sure that won't happen, great. But I'd make CVR> double-sure... I think the only critical section is MailList.Save(), or more accurately, MailList.__save(). But even here I think you're as safe as possible because Mailman writes new state using the following algorithm: - open a config.db.tmp.hostname.pid file - write the new state to this temp file - unlink config.db.last - create a hard link config.db <-> config.db.last - atomically rename config.db.tmp.hostname.pid to config.db If you get the SIGTERM during any of those steps, I think you're still guaranteed to have a valid config.db or config.db.last file, and in the presence of config.db begin MIA, Mailman automatically falls back to config.db.last (and if config.db.last is MIA, config.db should still be valid and in place). It's possible that the new state in the tmp file won't become current, but that's what I meant by the abort implication, and I think that's fine (and actually correct semantics -- I agree with you Chuq). If you get the signal in the middle of writing the config.db.tmp file, then oh well, it's corrupt, but it'll never be made the current state. You have to be careful but fast when you get that SIGTERM because three seconds later you're getting SIGKILLed and at that point, you're screwed. I think we're safe, at least for the config.db files. I need to make sure that other files like request.db are safe from corruption (I actually think this one might be vulnerable because it doesn't take the same precautions as with config.db). -Barry From chuqui at plaidworks.com Wed May 2 06:28:03 2001 From: chuqui at plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach) Date: Tue, 01 May 2001 21:28:03 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Re: [Mailman-Users] Big problems with stale lockfiles on large list... In-Reply-To: <15087.33891.519070.907640@anthem.wooz.org> Message-ID: On 5/1/01 8:52 PM, "Barry A. Warsaw" wrote: > I've avoid that because of NFS issues, i.e. if you've got multiple > Mailman installations sharing an NFS partition, the pids aren't > relevant. If you have that, don't you have chaos anyway? Is the create&link lock style reliable over NFS in the first place? Isn't putting locks from multiple machiens in the same directory just a plain old bad idea? I ran into a strange little problem today -- I'm using time() to generate a filename for a temporary directory. Works great; until you start running multiple processes on a 2 CPU machine. I started having two processes get the same time() value (which is impossible on a single CPU system) and fight over the same directory. I'm now doing a random() based sleep to get away from this. It seems to me that sharing a single directory for locks over NFS is asking for the same kind of weirdie problems I got to track down today... NFS changes the paradigms enough, especially about atomic operations, that I'm worried you're asking for issues here. I'd either put locks on a local disk, or make sure each machine has its own non-shared directory. And fi you do, the proc information will be relevant.... I really think the lock-setting code needs some form of "this is dead, break it" code in it -- that solves 99% of the problem, really. I know you can't depend on flock(), so that the kernel manages locks, but perhaps the config code could test for it nad use it if it exists and fall back to the current system if it doesn't? > The program can't know that, but the sysadmin can, so I'm > inclined to instead write a script that will zap old locks if their > processes don't exist. I've thought about that, also, but it seems like a duct tape solution to me. > I think the only critical section is MailList.Save(), or more > accurately, MailList.__save(). But even here I think you're as safe > as possible because Mailman writes new state using the following > algorithm: > > - open a config.db.tmp.hostname.pid file Okay, but... What if we go away after this is created. What is in charge of cleaning up leftovers? Realize I'm stretching a point here -- but in an extreme case, if nothing cleans this stuff up, you have a two-pronged denial of service attack. One would be when all of the .pid numbers have temp files created, so future attempts start failing, the other is when you have enough of the tmp files that the disk fills up... Either long-term neglect or a motivated dinker could shut a list server down.... > You have to be careful but fast when you get that SIGTERM because > three seconds later you're getting SIGKILLed and at that point, you're > screwed. Have you considered forking and detaching for the write? At that point, you could daemonize a sub-process to do the actual DB update, and the parent handles talking to the user, so if it's aborted, it wn't be killed. At some point, you pass a go/no-go point and if it's go, you can safely detach from the user and isolate yourself so you know you'll finish.... From nilesh_cne at yahoo.com Wed May 2 10:23:10 2001 From: nilesh_cne at yahoo.com (Nilesh Patil) Date: Wed, 2 May 2001 01:23:10 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Mailman-Users] (no subject) Message-ID: <20010502082310.2544.qmail@web4603.mail.yahoo.com> hi everyone i want to know how can insert a mailing list into mailaman database. i have email address in text file. thanx Nilesh __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ From pug at pug.net Wed May 2 10:25:27 2001 From: pug at pug.net (Pug Bainter) Date: Wed, 2 May 2001 03:25:27 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <20010502082310.2544.qmail@web4603.mail.yahoo.com>; from nilesh_cne@yahoo.com on Wed, May 02, 2001 at 01:23:10AM -0700 References: <20010502082310.2544.qmail@web4603.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20010502032527.A24183@stardock.pug.net> Nilesh Patil (nilesh_cne at yahoo.com) said something that sounded like: > i want to know how can insert a mailing list into > mailaman database. > i have email address in text file. Use the /bin/add_members script. For example: add_members --non-digest-members-file --welcome-msg=y Ciao, -- Pug Bainter | AMD, Inc. System Engineer, MTS | Mail Stop 625 Pug.Bainter at amd.com | pug at pug.net | 5900 E. Ben White Blvd Phone: (512) 602-0364 | Fax: (512) 602-6970 | Austin, TX 78741 Note: The views may not reflect my employers, or even my own for that matter. From pug at pug.net Wed May 2 10:30:03 2001 From: pug at pug.net (Pug Bainter) Date: Wed, 2 May 2001 03:30:03 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Administrators subscribing via email... Message-ID: <20010502033003.B24183@stardock.pug.net> Good Morning, Okay. I've done a number of searches and I've done a lot of different attempts, and I can't figure this out for the life of me. How can a list administrator use the email interface to subscribe and/or unsubscribe users without a confirmation going out to the user? They can do this via the webpage, but I can't figure out how to do it via the email interface. I found an odd page in German which refered to something in mailman (new or old I don't know) that would let them do: approve subscribe but this didn't work at all. I tried to put the Approved: header in, but this didn't work. Is it possible or do I need to start coding? Ciao, -- Pug Bainter | AMD, Inc. System Engineer, MTS | Mail Stop 625 Pug.Bainter at amd.com | pug at pug.net | 5900 E. Ben White Blvd Phone: (512) 602-0364 | Fax: (512) 602-6970 | Austin, TX 78741 Note: The views may not reflect my employers, or even my own for that matter. From claw at kanga.nu Wed May 2 10:48:43 2001 From: claw at kanga.nu (J C Lawrence) Date: Wed, 02 May 2001 01:48:43 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Re: [Mailman-Users] Big problems with stale lockfiles on large list... In-Reply-To: Message from Chuq Von Rospach of "Tue, 01 May 2001 21:28:03 PDT." References: Message-ID: <18820.988793323@kanga.nu> On Tue, 01 May 2001 21:28:03 -0700 Chuq Von Rospach wrote: > On 5/1/01 8:52 PM, "Barry A. Warsaw" wrote: >> I've avoid that because of NFS issues, i.e. if you've got >> multiple Mailman installations sharing an NFS partition, the pids >> aren't relevant. > If you have that, don't you have chaos anyway? Is the create&link > lock style reliable over NFS in the first place? Isn't putting > locks from multiple machiens in the same directory just a plain > old bad idea? The only operation guaranteed as unique under NFS is creat(). That pretty well limits the options. > I ran into a strange little problem today -- I'm using time() to > generate a filename for a temporary directory. Works great; until > you start running multiple processes on a 2 CPU machine. I started > having two processes get the same time() value (which is > impossible on a single CPU system) and fight over the same > directory. I'm now doing a random() based sleep to get away from > this. Bad bad bad bad. You've just decreased the incidence of collisions, not their fact or possibility. The standard *nix approach is to use the process ID which is guaranteed unique. If you're not running an *ix, just have one process use numerically even tempfile names, and the other odd. -- J C Lawrence claw at kanga.nu ---------(*) http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/ --=| A man is as sane as he is dangerous to his environment |=-- From Nigel.Metheringham at InTechnology.co.uk Wed May 2 11:02:38 2001 From: Nigel.Metheringham at InTechnology.co.uk (Nigel Metheringham) Date: Wed, 02 May 2001 10:02:38 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Re: [Mailman-Users] Big problems with stale lockfiles on large list... In-Reply-To: Message from J C Lawrence of "Wed, 02 May 2001 01:48:43 PDT." <18820.988793323@kanga.nu> Message-ID: Someone wrote (I got completely lost with the attributions in this and can't find the original):- > I ran into a strange little problem today -- I'm using time() to > generate a filename for a temporary directory. Works great; until > you start running multiple processes on a 2 CPU machine. I started > having two processes get the same time() value (which is > impossible on a single CPU system) and fight over the same > directory. I'm now doing a random() based sleep to get away from > this. claw at kanga.nu said: > Bad bad bad bad. You've just decreased the incidence of collisions, > not their fact or possibility. The standard *nix approach is to use > the process ID which is guaranteed unique. If you're not running an > *ix, just have one process use numerically even tempfile names, and > the other odd. Actually you would be better advised to go the Maildir filename approach - the filename is made up of the time(), the pid and a machine specifier of some form. That won't have clashes unless you can wind through your pids in under a second (although the current proposals for random pids worries me somewhat). Nigel. -- [ Nigel Metheringham Nigel.Metheringham at InTechnology.co.uk ] [ Phone: +44 1423 850000 Fax +44 1423 858866 ] [ - Comments in this message are my own and not ITO opinion/policy - ] From nilesh_cne at yahoo.com Wed May 2 11:08:09 2001 From: nilesh_cne at yahoo.com (Nilesh Patil) Date: Wed, 2 May 2001 02:08:09 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Mailman-Users] (no subject) Message-ID: <20010502090809.23420.qmail@web4602.mail.yahoo.com> Hi, Can someone help if i want to send HTML pages to subscription list how should i go Nilesh __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ From nilesh_cne at yahoo.com Wed May 2 11:28:04 2001 From: nilesh_cne at yahoo.com (nilesh_cne at yahoo.com) Date: Wed, 2 May 2001 14:58:04 +0530 Subject: [Mailman-Users] help Message-ID: <001301c0d2ea$337bb760$0400a8c0@nilesh> Can someone help me... Can I send an HTML mail to the mail list. Will they receive the mail in HTML format. Kindly help. Nilesh -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20010502/ba78e339/attachment.html From lennu at tietoverkot.net Wed May 2 11:31:31 2001 From: lennu at tietoverkot.net (Len Merikanto) Date: Wed, 2 May 2001 12:31:31 +0300 (EEST) Subject: [Mailman-Users] Trying to move Mailman configs. Message-ID: Any ideas how to move currently running Mailman and its configuratiosn to new platform? now running mailman at FreeBSD and i am supposed to move all configs and lists to another mailman running under Solaris 8 is there a easy way to move configs to another platform? or do i do it the hardway? Len Merikanto, Phone: +358968691950 Tietoverkot Oy Mobile: +358409008494 Munkkisaarenkatu 2 Fax: +358968691935 00150 Helsinki, Finland From mac at babel.fysh.org Wed May 2 12:27:58 2001 From: mac at babel.fysh.org (Mike Crowe) Date: Wed, 2 May 2001 11:27:58 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: "could not acquire qrunner lock", etc (partially solved) In-Reply-To: <20010502001444.J914@magic.merlins.org>; from marc_news@valinux.com on Wed, May 02, 2001 at 12:14:44AM -0700 References: <20010424123006.A11710@babel.fysh.org> <20010425112429.A2698@babel.fysh.org> <20010428122553.A14496@babel.fysh.org> <20010428210938.A25749@babel.fysh.org> <20010502001444.J914@magic.merlins.org> Message-ID: <20010502112758.A27738@babel.fysh.org> On Wed, May 02, 2001 at 12:14:44AM -0700, Marc MERLIN wrote: > On Sat, Apr 28, 2001 at 09:09:38PM +0100, Mike Crowe wrote: >> [stuff about the archiver being slow] > Yep, this is known, I've had the same problem on several servers, > including sourceforge.net, which only has 2G of memory a dual 800Mhz P3 > or something, so don't feel inferior with your machine, it's the code > that's at fault :-) Ah, I'm glad about that! > The good news is that the mm folks know about this and redesigned the > queueing system to avoid this holdup. All that said, pipermail will still > not be an archiver of choice, you are encouraged to use something else. Is anything recommended? Ideally something that will turn the mbox files into nice HTML every night without keeping the list locked. > Empegs rule! :-) I thought the email address was familiar :-) -- Mike Crowe From rclayton at aprisma.com Wed May 2 14:31:07 2001 From: rclayton at aprisma.com (Clayton, Robert) Date: Wed, 2 May 2001 08:31:07 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Trying to move Mailman configs. Message-ID: <5B628B202658D411AD8700508B7869F8038FE119@mailhost.aprisma.com> Does anyone know of a way to torch (delete) specific messages in a mailman database. I have clients sending test messages and they are very annoying. I've already stopped them from coming in, but the ones that already exist are numerous. thanks! From salve at debian.org Wed May 2 15:09:21 2001 From: salve at debian.org (Davide G. M. Salvetti) Date: 02 May 2001 15:09:21 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mime Stripper In-Reply-To: <5B628B202658D411AD8700508B7869F8038FE0DE@mailhost.aprisma.com> ("Clayton, Robert"'s message of "Tue, 1 May 2001 07:20:27 -0400") References: <5B628B202658D411AD8700508B7869F8038FE0DE@mailhost.aprisma.com> Message-ID: <87hez37v9a.fsf@hal.Olympus.INVALID> >>>>> CR == Clayton, Robert [2001-5-1] CR> Does anyone know of a good Mime Stripper that can work with the CR> latest Sendmail? Don't know if it helps: I've written a filter which expects a MIME compliant message on stdin and outputs a MIME compliant message on stdout, stripping only the parts you (configurable option) want to strip, leaving all the rest. It's named MimeFilter, it's GPL'd, it's Perl. You may find it on any Debian mirror (ftp.debian.org, for example) in the directory ?/debian/pool/main/m/mimefilter/?. Debian users may of course do ?apt-get install mimefilter?. -- Davide Giovanni Maria Salvetti W: http://www.linux.it/~salve/ OpenPGP (GPG) Key ID: 939686D5 From a.gutowski at wut.com Wed May 2 15:34:54 2001 From: a.gutowski at wut.com (a.gutowski at wut.com) Date: 02 May 2001 13:34:54 UT Subject: [Mailman-Users] No attachment Message-ID: <0001E498.3AF02911@mail.thn.net> Hi, my problem is that attachments are stripped from the eMails and no text is in the body. Emails without attachment are spread normaly. Maximum length in Kb of a message body is set to 0. I use Mailman 2.0.4 on Debian 2.2r3. Fetchmail polls the mail from our Mailserver an procmail sort them to the different lists. I think there is something wrong in the .procmailrc !?!? Here an example of of the .procmailrc: ------ PATH=$HOME/bin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/bin:/bin:/var/lib/mailman/mail MAILDIR=$HOME/Mail # you'd better make sure it exists DEFAULT=$MAILDIR/mbox # completely optional LOGFILE=$HOME/procmail.log # recommended :0 c * ^To: test at foo.com |/var/lib/mailman/mail/wrapper post test :0 * ^To: test-admin at foo.com |/var/lib/mailman/mail/wrapper mailowner test :0 * ^To: test-request at foo.com |/var/lib/mailman/mail/wrapper mailcmd test :0 * ^To: test-owner at foo.com ! blabla at wut.com ------------- Thanx. with best regards Andreas Gutowski Weiss Umwelttechnik GmbH EDV Organisation From arif at welfarelaw.org Wed May 2 18:04:16 2001 From: arif at welfarelaw.org (arif) Date: Wed, 2 May 2001 12:04:16 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help! problem with link creation for archives Message-ID: Hi, I'm having a problem with a list that I've set up. It all seems to be working fine on the email side of things, but my web interface is acting a little funny. The problem is that the link for the list archives has an extra / here's what it looks like: http://216.233.22.3/mailman/private//linc-hot-news/ what's interesting is that this extra / appears in every instance of a link to the list archives. Any ideas on how I can fix this? thanks much, -arif <---------------------------------> Arif Mamdani Circuit Rider LINC Project -- Welfare Law Center www.lincproject.org www.welfarelaw.org 212.633.6967 From cwieland at uci.edu Wed May 2 18:21:13 2001 From: cwieland at uci.edu (Con Wieland) Date: Wed, 2 May 2001 09:21:13 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] password reminders Message-ID: My monthly subscription reminder from the lists I am on, have the sender, error-to, and x-beenthere addresses as test at domain and not the specific listname or the site administrative address. Any help on where to look or how to correct this would be appreciated. Con From Nigel.Metheringham at InTechnology.co.uk Wed May 2 18:22:54 2001 From: Nigel.Metheringham at InTechnology.co.uk (Nigel Metheringham) Date: Wed, 02 May 2001 17:22:54 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: Funny...Re: Request to mailing list Linux-ipsec rejected In-Reply-To: Message from John Gentilin of "Wed, 02 May 2001 16:53:50 BST." <3AF02D8D.2DFB7EAB@eyecatching.com> Message-ID: gentijo at eyecatching.com said: > NOTE TO THE MAILMAN LIST: Does anyone have any ideas here. We are > having problems allowing people to unsubscribe from the list. Looks like the problem here is a straight case of people being able to use any address in their domain for filtering/sorting, and thus forgetting the subscribed address. Unfortunately I do not have reminder messages set on this list for good reason, so you can't even get your address from the monthly reminder poke :-) Nigel. -- [ Nigel Metheringham Nigel.Metheringham at InTechnology.co.uk ] [ Phone: +44 1423 850000 Fax +44 1423 858866 ] [ - Comments in this message are my own and not ITO opinion/policy - ] From Jason.Maderios at togethersoft.com Wed May 2 19:30:17 2001 From: Jason.Maderios at togethersoft.com (Jason Maderios) Date: Wed, 2 May 2001 13:30:17 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mass Unsubscribe?? - Convert from MajorDomo Message-ID: <75B97A92FDFFEF43A2B9F2C0E5308C830D4F97@ushqmailw01.togethersoft.net> Gang, I am in the midst of evaluating mailman for our mailing list. We currently use Majordomo by way of a hosting company and we are considering managing the list internally. All I can say about the install is WOW! Great docs, and everything worked as advertised. I had missed one line in the docs about setting the GID at configure time if my web server used something other than nobody as it's user. Even the error I saw when I first fired up my browser told me where I had erred.. Thanks to anyone out there who worked on the Docs... Any way my real question is this. I created a text file with a bunch of dups and thousands of emails to see how easy it was to import records (I have about 200,000 adr's I am going to have to import). It all worked great but how do I MASS unsubscribe all those bogus adrs??? Also where does mailman keep the email adr's at? Is it a flat file? Can I edit it directly? Any Help would be appreciated... Jason Maderios From claw at kanga.nu Wed May 2 20:03:35 2001 From: claw at kanga.nu (J C Lawrence) Date: Wed, 02 May 2001 11:03:35 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] help In-Reply-To: Message from of "Wed, 02 May 2001 14:58:04 +0530." <001301c0d2ea$337bb760$0400a8c0@nilesh> References: <001301c0d2ea$337bb760$0400a8c0@nilesh> Message-ID: <6313.988826615@kanga.nu> On Wed, 2 May 2001 14:58:04 +0530 nilesh cne wrote: > Can I send an HTML mail to the mail list. Yes. > Will they receive the mail in HTML format. Unfortunately, unless you filter it, yes. -- J C Lawrence claw at kanga.nu ---------(*) http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/ --=| A man is as sane as he is dangerous to his environment |=-- From alex at phred.org Wed May 2 20:07:30 2001 From: alex at phred.org (alex wetmore) Date: Wed, 2 May 2001 11:07:30 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mass Unsubscribe?? - Convert from MajorDomo In-Reply-To: <75B97A92FDFFEF43A2B9F2C0E5308C830D4F97@ushqmailw01.togethersoft.net> Message-ID: <20010502110628.Q60925-100000@phred.org> On Wed, 2 May 2001, Jason Maderios wrote: > Any way my real question is this. I created a text file with a bunch of > dups and thousands of emails to see how easy it was to import records (I > have about 200,000 adr's I am going to have to import). It all worked > great but how do I MASS unsubscribe all those bogus adrs??? Also where > does mailman keep the email adr's at? Is it a flat file? Can I edit it > directly? Check ~mailman/bin/remove_members. It can take a list of recipients from a file, or an individual recipient on the command line. The recipient list is not a flat file. alex From claw at kanga.nu Wed May 2 20:26:32 2001 From: claw at kanga.nu (J C Lawrence) Date: Wed, 02 May 2001 11:26:32 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Re: [Mailman-Users] Big problems with stale lockfiles on large list... In-Reply-To: Message from Nigel Metheringham of "Wed, 02 May 2001 10:02:38 BST." References: Message-ID: <15600.988827992@kanga.nu> On Wed, 02 May 2001 10:02:38 +0100 Nigel Metheringham wrote: > claw at kanga.nu said: >> The standard *nix approach is to use the process ID which is >> guaranteed unique. If you're not running an *ix, just have one >> process use numerically even tempfile names, and the other odd. > Actually you would be better advised to go the Maildir filename > approach - the filename is made up of the time(), the pid and a > machine specifier of some form. Not a bad idea as it makes the resultant filename self-documenting. > That won't have clashes unless you can wind through your pids in > under a second (although the current proposals for random pids > worries me somewhat). I haven't looked at PID allocation strategies for a while now, but last I looked most systems used an incrementing counter for PIDs, rolling over to 2 on overflow (zero and one are special pids), which checked for collisions on each increment (to prevent collisions after the PID counter has wrapped at least once). Given that pid_t is typically at least a 16 bit value, that means you'd have to create destroy 32767 processes within your time slice (pid_t is usually a 32bit or 64bit value on modern systems, making for a much larger loop time). I've not run into random PID allocation strategy proposals. Very odd idea. Doing a quick google search suggests Marek was trying to protect lame tool authors who use the PID in sensitive data control situations and got soundly slapped in the process. -- J C Lawrence claw at kanga.nu ---------(*) http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/ --=| A man is as sane as he is dangerous to his environment |=-- From mailman at howlingfrog.com Wed May 2 20:30:59 2001 From: mailman at howlingfrog.com (Graham TerMarsch) Date: Wed, 2 May 2001 11:30:59 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: Big problems with stale lockfiles on large list... In-Reply-To: <15087.8010.821127.647320@anthem.wooz.org> References: <0104271309330S.08359@graham.localdomain> <01042715193211.08359@graham.localdomain> <15087.8010.821127.647320@anthem.wooz.org> Message-ID: <01050211305908.03885@graham.localdomain> On Tuesday 01 May 2001 13:40, you wrote: [.....snip.....] > Here's what I did: I loaded up a list with 60000 subscribers, then > went to the members page. It did indeed take a long time, and if I > let it run to completion, I get the page as expected and no locks. > > However, if I hit the stop button before the page is finished loading, > I can see that the CGI process continues to run for a while and then > it may or may not clear the locks. The page is not complete. Since > sometimes the locks are cleared and sometimes they're left, it's > pretty clear there are race conditions involved. [.....snip.....] > This seems to work, in that the locks appear to be cleared in the > cases where they were left laying around before. But because of all > the race conditions, I can't be 100% sure. > > If you've read this far, the implication is that if the user hits the > stop button, Mailman will in essence abort any changes to list > configuration that this invocation may have made. Alternatively, we > could try to save & unlock in the signal handler, but that raises the > possibility of race conditions again. Also, it makes sense to move > the save of the list data into the try: part of the clause and only do > the unlocking in the finally. That way, the finally clause and the > SIGTERM handler have the same semantics, and the list will get > unlocked in the face of either an exception or a signal. But the list > database will only get saved on sucessful completion of the task. I > can live with those semantics (I think ;). [.....snip.....] Barry, wanted to thank you muchly for the lengthy description of the problem and the patch that you provided. I figured that this was probably what was happening, after having gone through the process of running the CGIs repeatedly myself here. >From the initial testing that I've done, it appears that the patch that you provided does work (near as I can tell so far), and has helped eliminate the dangling/stale lockfile problems that we've been having. As for the semantics of "save the list only if everything was successful", I too believe that those are livable (and likely proper) semantics to live with. Will let you know again if we continue to have this problem, but from what I've seen so far this appears to have fixed the major fire that I've had. Now all I've got to figure out is how to try to speed up the admin CGIs so that they don't take two or three minutes to load when dealing with large lists... Thanks again Barry, -- Graham TerMarsch From chuqui at plaidworks.com Wed May 2 21:05:08 2001 From: chuqui at plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach) Date: Wed, 02 May 2001 12:05:08 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: [Mailman-Developers] Re: Big problems with stale lockfiles on large list... In-Reply-To: <01050211305908.03885@graham.localdomain> Message-ID: On 5/2/01 11:30 AM, "Graham TerMarsch" wrote: > Barry, wanted to thank you muchly for the lengthy description of the > problem and the patch that you provided. I figured that this was probably > what was happening, after having gone through the process of running the > CGIs repeatedly myself here. By the by, I hate to say this, but I think this thing deserves a 2.0.5 subrelease.... From maillist at blitzen.net Thu May 3 07:42:47 2001 From: maillist at blitzen.net (Steve Lee) Date: Wed, 2 May 2001 22:42:47 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Mailman-Users] password during subscribe Message-ID: When i first created a list, i was able to subscribe through email by subscribe on the subject line. Thereafter, i was able to recieve a email to reply for conformation to be added to the list. Then i recieve a final email that it succeeded and my password in that email. I have changed something in the settings and now cannot recieve password during the reply conformation. Therefore, i am unable to unsubscribe without the password. How do i enable this email to include this password. Please help. i have tried all kinds of setting throught the web interface, but no go. Thanks. From barry at digicool.com Thu May 3 10:08:52 2001 From: barry at digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw) Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 04:08:52 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: Big problems with stale lockfiles on large list... References: <0104271309330S.08359@graham.localdomain> <01042715193211.08359@graham.localdomain> <15087.8010.821127.647320@anthem.wooz.org> <01050211305908.03885@graham.localdomain> Message-ID: <15089.4628.281146.976049@anthem.wooz.org> >>>>> "GT" == Graham TerMarsch writes: GT> Barry, wanted to thank you muchly for the lengthy description GT> of the problem and the patch that you provided. I figured GT> that this was probably what was happening, after having gone GT> through the process of running the CGIs repeatedly myself GT> here. You're welcome, and thanks for the feedback. I've committed those changes to CVS so they'll be part of 2.1. GT> As for the semantics of "save the list only if everything was GT> successful", I too believe that those are livable (and likely GT> proper) semantics to live with. I think it's the only sane thing to do. GT> Will let you know again if we continue to have this problem, GT> but from what I've seen so far this appears to have fixed the GT> major fire that I've had. Now all I've got to figure out is GT> how to try to speed up the admin CGIs so that they don't take GT> two or three minutes to load when dealing with large lists... Check to see if it's disk access. Remember you've got to load the entire marshaled dict into memory for each web hit, and that's gotta be expensive. Things will get much better for 2.1 from the email side because there'll be some caching involved (there's a long running qrunner process now), but you'll still pay the penalty on the web side. Really fixing that will be a job for Mailman 3.0. -Barry From barry at digicool.com Thu May 3 10:13:30 2001 From: barry at digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw) Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 04:13:30 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: [Mailman-Developers] Re: Big problems with stale lockfiles on large list... References: <01050211305908.03885@graham.localdomain> Message-ID: <15089.4906.893381.544950@anthem.wooz.org> >>>>> "CVR" == Chuq Von Rospach writes: >> Barry, wanted to thank you muchly for the lengthy description >> of the problem and the patch that you provided. I figured that >> this was probably what was happening, after having gone through >> the process of running the CGIs repeatedly myself here. CVR> By the by, I hate to say this, but I think this thing CVR> deserves a 2.0.5 subrelease.... I was thinking the same thing. :/ I'd like to get more feedback on how important/useful you site guys think it would be. Chuq's vote is counted. :) -Barry From barry at digicool.com Thu May 3 10:14:25 2001 From: barry at digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw) Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 04:14:25 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: [Mailman-Developers] Re: Big problems with stale lockfiles on large list... References: <01050211305908.03885@graham.localdomain> Message-ID: <15089.4961.73484.417761@anthem.wooz.org> >>>>> "CVR" == Chuq Von Rospach writes: CVR> By the by, I hate to say this, but I think this thing CVR> deserves a 2.0.5 subrelease.... Oh, let me add (since it's 4am :), that I also would like to get more feedback on the success of the patch. One thing I don't want to do is have 2.0.5 make things worse! -Barry From nilesh_cne at yahoo.com Thu May 3 10:58:36 2001 From: nilesh_cne at yahoo.com (Nilesh) Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 14:28:36 +0530 (India Standard Time) Subject: [Mailman-Users] (no subject) Message-ID: <3AF11DBC.000007.27763@nilesh> Hi Every body !!!! i have configured mailman but iam not able to go through .... when i try to subscribe the maillist it sends me a message for confirmation but when i reply , mail is bounced saying no recipent . please help Nilesh -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20010503/f576a060/attachment.htm From soros_gergo at yahoo.com Thu May 3 13:17:17 2001 From: soros_gergo at yahoo.com (Gergo Soros) Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 13:17:17 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: [Mailman-Developers] Re: Big problems with stale lockfiles on large list... References: <01050211305908.03885@graham.localdomain> <15089.4906.893381.544950@anthem.wooz.org> Message-ID: <008401c0d3c2$a7912f80$01000001@sgergo.hu> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Barry A. Warsaw" > >>>>> "CVR" == Chuq Von Rospach writes: > > >> Barry, wanted to thank you muchly for the lengthy description > >> of the problem and the patch that you provided. I figured that > >> this was probably what was happening, after having gone through > >> the process of running the CGIs repeatedly myself here. > > CVR> By the by, I hate to say this, but I think this thing > CVR> deserves a 2.0.5 subrelease.... > > I was thinking the same thing. :/ I'd like to get more feedback on > how important/useful you site guys think it would be. > > Chuq's vote is counted. :) Just a quick vote: your patch has solved our problems with the stale locks, too and we haven't seen any issues coming up for the last couple of days now. Many thanks, Barry! > GT> major fire that I've had. Now all I've got to figure out is > GT> how to try to speed up the admin CGIs so that they don't take > GT> two or three minutes to load when dealing with large lists... I'm positive that moving the storage to MySQL/PgSQL/Oracle will speed up the db side, guess this is something for the 3.0 release. Gergo _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From nilesh_cne at rediffmail.com Thu May 3 13:52:17 2001 From: nilesh_cne at rediffmail.com (Nilesh p patil) Date: 3 May 2001 11:52:17 -0000 Subject: [Mailman-Users] post message Message-ID: <20010503115217.32612.qmail@mailweb24.rediffmail.com> Hi , when i send a message to maillist the mail "To:" field contain the email address of maillist at ... i want to send the message to all the users with their own email-id . is it possible in mailman thanx in advance Nilesh Patil _____________________________________________________ Chat with your friends as soon as they come online. Get Rediff Bol at http://bol.rediff.com From haroldp at sierraweb.com Thu May 3 17:14:39 2001 From: haroldp at sierraweb.com (Harold Paulson) Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 08:14:39 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: [Mailman-Developers] Re: Big problems with stale lockfiles on large list... In-Reply-To: <008401c0d3c2$a7912f80$01000001@sgergo.hu> References: <01050211305908.03885@graham.localdomain> <15089.4906.893381.544950@anthem.wooz.org> <008401c0d3c2$a7912f80$01000001@sgergo.hu> Message-ID: >> GT> major fire that I've had. Now all I've got to figure out is >> GT> how to try to speed up the admin CGIs so that they don't take >> GT> two or three minutes to load when dealing with large lists... > >I'm positive that moving the storage to MySQL/PgSQL/Oracle will speed >up the db side, guess this is something for the 3.0 release. > I'd have to agree with this. Grabbing any 30 records out of 65k is an operation that shouldn't take more than about a second on any modern DB. It also seems like it would skirt around the need for some of these complicated locking tricks. - H -- Harold Paulson Sierra Web Design haroldp at sierraweb.com http://www.sierraweb.com VOICE: 775.833.9500 FAX: 810.314.1517 From gleblanc at cu-portland.edu Thu May 3 17:02:31 2001 From: gleblanc at cu-portland.edu (Gregory Leblanc) Date: 03 May 2001 08:02:31 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] administrivia option Message-ID: <988902156.6414.0.camel@grego1.cu-portland.edu> I've been running mailman on my servers for a while, and letting other people run the mailing lists, but just recently I ended up starting a list which I need to run. I've seen this "administrivia" option quite a few times, and thought "oh, that's cool, I don't have to worry about silly people sending a subscribe message to the list. Now that I'm actually running a list, I find that this option is only half as cool as I'd thought. Someone just sent a message to the mailing list address with the single word "subscribe" in the subject, along with absolutely nothing in the body of the message. Mailman decided that I needed to look at this message, rather than simply processing this as an administrative request. While that is annoying enough, I find that from the "administrative requests" page, there's no option to process this message as an administrative request. I either need to discard the message, and manually subscribe this person, or I have to bounce it with some note that says "I can't understand your request unless you send it to this other, almost identical address". Bleah. So, I guess What I want to ask is first, why can't mailman automatically process at least the requests that are very clearly administrative requests that have been misdirected? And second, why isn't there an option to "process this message as if it was sent to the -request address" on the admin page? Thanks, Greg -- Troll, troll, troll your post Gently down the feed Merrily, merrily troll along A life is what you need... From barry at digicool.com Thu May 3 18:20:48 2001 From: barry at digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw) Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 12:20:48 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: [Mailman-Developers] Re: Big problems with stale lockfiles on large list... References: <01050211305908.03885@graham.localdomain> <15089.4906.893381.544950@anthem.wooz.org> <008401c0d3c2$a7912f80$01000001@sgergo.hu> Message-ID: <15089.34144.726072.965667@anthem.wooz.org> >>>>> "GS" == Gergo Soros writes: GS> Just a quick vote: your patch has solved our problems with the GS> stale locks, too and we haven't seen any issues coming up for GS> the last couple of days now. Many thanks, Barry! Ah good. That at least gives me enough confidence to guinea pig the changes on the {python,zope}.org site. I'll seriously consider a 2.0.5 release that contains just this fix. >> GT> major fire that I've had. Now all I've got to figure out >> is GT> how to try to speed up the admin CGIs so that they don't >> take GT> two or three minutes to load when dealing with large >> lists... GS> I'm positive that moving the storage to MySQL/PgSQL/Oracle GS> will speed up the db side, guess this is something for the 3.0 GS> release. Me too, and yes, definitely a 3.0 thing. -Barry From barry at digicool.com Thu May 3 18:23:14 2001 From: barry at digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw) Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 12:23:14 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: [Mailman-Developers] Re: Big problems with stale lockfiles on large list... References: <01050211305908.03885@graham.localdomain> <15089.4906.893381.544950@anthem.wooz.org> <008401c0d3c2$a7912f80$01000001@sgergo.hu> Message-ID: <15089.34290.381165.356873@anthem.wooz.org> >>>>> "HP" == Harold Paulson writes: HP> I'd have to agree with this. Grabbing any 30 records out of HP> 65k is an operation that shouldn't take more than about a HP> second on any modern DB. It also seems like it would skirt HP> around the need for some of these complicated locking tricks. No question about it. It's a timing issue: I want to move as quickly as possible towards a 2.1 release which will be the first internationalized Mailman. Rewriting (and more importantly, testing, and writing the migration code!) the underlying db would in my estimation push development and release back way too far. -Barry From gleblanc at cu-portland.edu Thu May 3 18:28:08 2001 From: gleblanc at cu-portland.edu (Gregory Leblanc) Date: 03 May 2001 09:28:08 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] acceptable_aliases Option Message-ID: <988907293.7329.1.camel@grego1.cu-portland.edu> Hi there! I've got some semi-private distribution lists on an MS Exchange server here at work, which I'd like to propogate off-site using mailman. I can create a mailing list, and add it to the list of people on this distribution list very easily. What I'd like to do is make sure that Joe User can't email this list and give people the impression that this is an official message from our organization. Since mail is going "to" the exchange list, the mailman list isn't in recipients headers. This is great, because then I can block people from sending to the list unless they're really on our exchange server. I can't seem to figure out what's expected in the "accepptable_aliases" option box. Here's about what my test distribution lists "to" field looks like to mailman (some names changed to protect the innocent). IMCEAEX-_O=ORGNAME+20OTHERORGNAME_OU=OUNAME_CN=CONTAINERNAME_CN=Testing at cu-portland.edu Can anybody help me figure out what I need to put in this box so that mail sent "to" this address will go through mailman? Thanks, Greg -- Troll, troll, troll your post Gently down the feed Merrily, merrily troll along A life is what you need... From alex at phred.org Thu May 3 19:54:26 2001 From: alex at phred.org (alex wetmore) Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 10:54:26 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Mailman-Users] acceptable_aliases Option In-Reply-To: <988907293.7329.1.camel@grego1.cu-portland.edu> Message-ID: <20010503105337.S60925-100000@phred.org> On 3 May 2001, Gregory Leblanc wrote: > Hi there! I've got some semi-private distribution lists on an MS > Exchange server here at work, which I'd like to propogate off-site using > mailman. I can create a mailing list, and add it to the list of people > on this distribution list very easily. What I'd like to do is make sure > that Joe User can't email this list and give people the impression that > this is an official message from our organization. Since mail is going > "to" the exchange list, the mailman list isn't in recipients headers. > This is great, because then I can block people from sending to the list > unless they're really on our exchange server. I can't seem to figure > out what's expected in the "accepptable_aliases" option box. Here's > about what my test distribution lists "to" field looks like to mailman > (some names changed to protect the innocent). > IMCEAEX-_O=ORGNAME+20OTHERORGNAME_OU=OUNAME_CN=CONTAINERNAME_CN=Testing at cu-portland.edu Give your alias a SMTP address on the Exchange server so that it doesn't use an ecapsulated Legacy DN. You can then put that normal SMTP address into Mailman. alex From mailman at howlingfrog.com Thu May 3 20:14:09 2001 From: mailman at howlingfrog.com (Graham TerMarsch) Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 11:14:09 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: [Mailman-Developers] Re: Big problems with stale lockfiles on large list... In-Reply-To: <15089.4906.893381.544950@anthem.wooz.org> References: <01050211305908.03885@graham.localdomain> <15089.4906.893381.544950@anthem.wooz.org> Message-ID: <0105031114090E.07532@graham.localdomain> On Thursday 03 May 2001 01:13, Barry A. Warsaw wrote: > >>>>> "CVR" == Chuq Von Rospach writes: > >> Barry, wanted to thank you muchly for the lengthy description > >> of the problem and the patch that you provided. I figured that > >> this was probably what was happening, after having gone through > >> the process of running the CGIs repeatedly myself here. > > CVR> By the by, I hate to say this, but I think this thing > CVR> deserves a 2.0.5 subrelease.... > > I was thinking the same thing. :/ I'd like to get more feedback on > how important/useful you site guys think it would be. > > Chuq's vote is counted. :) Count my vote in; I'm all for smaller, quicker, more incremental releases (especially when they contain bugfixes). :) -- Graham TerMarsch From mailman at howlingfrog.com Thu May 3 20:20:14 2001 From: mailman at howlingfrog.com (Graham TerMarsch) Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 11:20:14 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: Big problems with stale lockfiles on large list... In-Reply-To: <15089.4628.281146.976049@anthem.wooz.org> References: <0104271309330S.08359@graham.localdomain> <01050211305908.03885@graham.localdomain> <15089.4628.281146.976049@anthem.wooz.org> Message-ID: <0105031120140G.07532@graham.localdomain> On Thursday 03 May 2001 01:08, Barry A. Warsaw wrote: > GT> Will let you know again if we continue to have this problem, > GT> but from what I've seen so far this appears to have fixed the > GT> major fire that I've had. Now all I've got to figure out is > GT> how to try to speed up the admin CGIs so that they don't take > GT> two or three minutes to load when dealing with large lists... > > Check to see if it's disk access. Remember you've got to load the > entire marshaled dict into memory for each web hit, and that's gotta > be expensive. Things will get much better for 2.1 from the email side > because there'll be some caching involved (there's a long running > qrunner process now), but you'll still pay the penalty on the web > side. Really fixing that will be a job for Mailman 3.0. Don't think that its disk access, but I could be wrong. Box has 512MB of RAM, and with the volume of traffic we've got coming in to this machine the Mailman database should be stuck in cache perpetually. I could be totally wrong here, but I'm inclined to believe that its not disk IO thats holding this one up. -- Graham TerMarsch From barry at digicool.com Thu May 3 21:26:38 2001 From: barry at digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw) Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 15:26:38 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Re: [Mailman-Users] Big problems with stale lockfiles on large list... References: <0104271309330S.08359@graham.localdomain> <009c01c0cf5b$3165c2a0$01000001@sgergo.hu> <01042715193211.08359@graham.localdomain> <15087.8010.821127.647320@anthem.wooz.org> Message-ID: <15089.45294.645712.975619@anthem.wooz.org> >>>>> "BAW" == Barry A Warsaw writes: BAW> So the code in admin.py looks something like: | def main(): | ... | mlist = MailList.MailList(listname, lock=0) | ... | | def sigterm_handler(signum, frame, mlist=mlist): | mlist.Unlock() | | mlist.Lock() | try: | signal.signal(signal.SIGTERM, sigterm_handler) | ... | mlist.Save() | finally: | mlist.Unlock() I think this code isn't quite right. I think to be totally safe, you want sigterm_handler() to sys.exit(0) after the call to mlist.Unlock(). Otherwise, depending on race conditions, after unlocking the list you could still enter Save(), which would fail because it would first try to refresh a lock you no longer own. I'll work up a proper patch to Mailman 2.0.4 and post it to SF for you to try. Or you could modify your patched version and test it in the meantime. -Barry From brethour at ncsa.uiuc.edu Thu May 3 21:39:19 2001 From: brethour at ncsa.uiuc.edu (Tanya Brethour) Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 14:39:19 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [Mailman-Users] MHonArc Message-ID: Quick question: I am converting to use the mhonarc archiver instead of the builtin mailman archiver because of the MIME attachment issue. I was curious how people integrate the two. Do you turn off archiving in mailman? Do you just run a cron job to update the archive? In order to have it group things by months (like mailman does) do I have to rotate or move the mailbox each month?? I'm currently still trying to figure out all the mhonarc does.. so please excuse my questions if they seem simple. Any advice is appreciated. Thanks, Tanya From brethour at ncsa.uiuc.edu Thu May 3 21:54:58 2001 From: brethour at ncsa.uiuc.edu (Tanya Brethour) Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 14:54:58 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [Mailman-Users] MHonArc In-Reply-To: <3AF1B6DF.EF5D18C2@west.sun.com> Message-ID: Dan, Thanks.. I will download the archive. I tried searching it on Python.. but I got confused as to what to enter into which text box... what things to check.. .. and nothing I entered turned up anything remotely close to what I was looking for. (Despite the hint on list.org ) -Tanya On Thu, 3 May 2001, Dan Mick wrote: > > > Tanya Brethour wrote: > > > > Quick question: > > > > I am converting to use the mhonarc archiver instead of the builtin mailman > > archiver because of the MIME attachment issue. I was curious how people > > integrate the two. > > > > Do you turn off archiving in mailman? > > Do you just run a cron job to update the archive? > > In order to have it group things by months (like mailman does) do I have > > to rotate or move the mailbox each month?? > > > > I'm currently still trying to figure out all the mhonarc does.. so please > > excuse my questions if they seem simple. > > Yeah, I'm about to start down this road too, and am thinking of Hypermail > instead because my server is pretty underpowered at this point, and Yet > Another Interpreted Memory Hog Language might just send it packing. > > People have reported on successes on this list, so perhaps downloading the > mail archive and perusing would be worth your time; I plan on doing that > later today. > From gleblanc at cu-portland.edu Thu May 3 21:00:55 2001 From: gleblanc at cu-portland.edu (Gregory Leblanc) Date: 03 May 2001 12:00:55 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] acceptable_aliases Option Message-ID: <988916460.7524.0.camel@grego1.cu-portland.edu> On 03 May 2001 10:54:26 -0700, alex wetmore wrote: > On 3 May 2001, Gregory Leblanc wrote: > > Hi there! I've got some semi-private distribution lists on an MS > > Exchange server here at work, which I'd like to propogate off-site using > > mailman. I can create a mailing list, and add it to the list of people > > on this distribution list very easily. What I'd like to do is make sure > > that Joe User can't email this list and give people the impression that > > this is an official message from our organization. Since mail is going > > "to" the exchange list, the mailman list isn't in recipients headers. > > This is great, because then I can block people from sending to the list > > unless they're really on our exchange server. I can't seem to figure > > out what's expected in the "accepptable_aliases" option box. Here's > > about what my test distribution lists "to" field looks like to mailman > > (some names changed to protect the innocent). > > IMCEAEX-_O=ORGNAME+20OTHERORGNAME_OU=OUNAME_CN=CONTAINERNAME_CN=Testing at cu-portland.edu > > Give your alias a SMTP address on the Exchange server so that it > doesn't use an ecapsulated Legacy DN. You can then put that normal > SMTP address into Mailman. If I do this, then people who aren't on the exchange server can email this distribution list, which is why I haven't done that. Exchange doesn't offer any good way of restricting this, which is why I'm using the address as stated above. Greg -- Troll, troll, troll your post Gently down the feed Merrily, merrily troll along A life is what you need... From claw at kanga.nu Thu May 3 22:32:21 2001 From: claw at kanga.nu (J C Lawrence) Date: Thu, 03 May 2001 13:32:21 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] MHonArc In-Reply-To: Message from Tanya Brethour of "Thu, 03 May 2001 14:39:19 CDT." References: Message-ID: <23681.988921941@kanga.nu> On Thu, 3 May 2001 14:39:19 -0500 (CDT) Tanya Brethour wrote: > Quick question: I am converting to use the mhonarc archiver > instead of the builtin mailman archiver because of the MIME > attachment issue. I was curious how people integrate the two. I subscribe a special archiver address to each list I wish to archive. Under that address procmail then files each list into folders. A cron job handles renaming the folders each quarter (I group by quarters rather than by month). To make procmail happier (and save editing the procmail RC) I do this by moving symlinks. eg ~/mail/lists/somelist-l/current -> 2001Q1 ~/mail/lists/somelist-l/2001Q1 After cronjob runs on April 1st: ~/mail/lists/somelist-l/current -> 2001Q2 ~/mail/lists/somelist-l/2001Q1 ~/mail/lists/somelist-l/2001Q2 procmail files into the "current" folder in each list's directory. I then invokve MHonArc on the various folders daily under Cron. I do this, rather than archiving messages immediately as MHonArc is fairly expensive and some of my lists are reasonably high traffic (bursts to 100+ posts a day). You can find the file relevant to the above, encluding my MHonarc RCs here: ftp://ftp.kanga.nu/pub/Kanga.Nu/WebArchives/ A simpler set of RCs that are not dependant on PHP4 etc, can be found here: ftp://ftp.kanga.nu/pub/Kanga.Nu/WebArchives.old/ > Do you turn off archiving in mailman? Yes. > Do you just run a cron job to update the archive? Yes. > In order to have it group things by months (like mailman does) do > I have to rotate or move the mailbox each month?? Yup. I have a cronjob move the "current" symlinks for procmail each quarter (and for low traffic lists, each year). The MHonArc scripts internally calculate the quarter directory names when archiving. I then have a little PHP-based index which represents the sections up in a unified manner ala (shows all the periods archives, how many messages in ach, links to the author/date/thread indexes etc) as shown here: http://www.kanga.nu/archives/MUD-Dev-L/ and here (lower traffic list): http://www.kanga.nu/archives/Noted-L/ -- J C Lawrence claw at kanga.nu ---------(*) http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/ --=| A man is as sane as he is dangerous to his environment |=-- From agils at olanet.net Thu May 3 01:10:33 2001 From: agils at olanet.net (agils) Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 01:10:33 +0200 Subject: Fw: [Mailman-Users] Sound card for VOIP application Message-ID: <000001c0d413$e80b5da0$90dd96d5@AntonioGil> ----- Original Message ----- From: Kisor Ray To: mailman-users at python.org Sent: Monday, April 23, 2001 2:01 PM Subject: [Mailman-Users] Sound card for VOIP application Hello : To develop voice over ip application I find that A duplex sound card is required. I have one query : Is any 16 bit sound card is sufficient for this purpose ? Or I need special hardware like Quicenet PhoneJack and Quicknet LineJack ? Could any body please clarify this ? Thanks Kisor Ray -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20010503/2df2902e/attachment.html From agils at olanet.net Thu May 3 23:02:41 2001 From: agils at olanet.net (agils) Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 23:02:41 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Message-ID: <004101c0d415$5cb2d740$90dd96d5@AntonioGil> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20010503/efb9499a/attachment.htm From barry at digicool.com Thu May 3 23:24:50 2001 From: barry at digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw) Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 17:24:50 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Re: [Mailman-Users] Big problems with stale lockfiles on large list... References: <0104271309330S.08359@graham.localdomain> <009c01c0cf5b$3165c2a0$01000001@sgergo.hu> <01042715193211.08359@graham.localdomain> <15087.8010.821127.647320@anthem.wooz.org> <15089.45294.645712.975619@anthem.wooz.org> Message-ID: <15089.52386.871196.668108@anthem.wooz.org> >>>>> "BAW" == Barry A Warsaw writes: BAW> I think this code isn't quite right. I think to be totally BAW> safe, you want sigterm_handler() to sys.exit(0) after the BAW> call to mlist.Unlock(). Otherwise, depending on race BAW> conditions, after unlocking the list you could still enter BAW> Save(), which would fail because it would first try to BAW> refresh a lock you no longer own. BAW> I'll work up a proper patch to Mailman 2.0.4 and post it to BAW> SF for you to try. Or you could modify your patched version BAW> and test it in the meantime. On second thought, I'm only going to post the patch when I do the 2.0.5 release (which will happen tomorrow). All the changes are in the CVS Release_2_0_1-branch maintenance branch so you can check them out there for a preview. I plan on doing some more testing tomorrow before the release, but so far it looks pretty good. -Barry From pug at pug.net Fri May 4 03:35:22 2001 From: pug at pug.net (Pug Bainter) Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 20:35:22 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Loooooonnnnnnnngggggg archive conversion... Message-ID: <20010503203522.A1144@stardock.pug.net> Good Morning, Well I've converted my 65 majordomo lists over to Mailman. I only had a few issues. The one I have today is that an archive conversion (~mailman/bin/arch) is taking forever. There were several mailing lists that it took a few hours to convert, but I suffered through it. This one has been running for 10 hours so far. It is doing things [mostly mremaps()], but it takes way too long. This seemed to be the case that once it got to a certain point it had trouble computing the different threads. Right now it is doing the pipermail.pck and has been for just over an hour. How long would one expect a 116M mbox to convert? Are there thoughts on improving performance of this conversion? Ciao, -- Pug Bainter | AMD, Inc. System Engineer, MTS | Mail Stop 625 Pug.Bainter at amd.com | pug at pug.net | 5900 E. Ben White Blvd Phone: (512) 602-0364 | Fax: (512) 602-6970 | Austin, TX 78741 Note: The views may not reflect my employers, or even my own for that matter. From pug at pug.net Fri May 4 03:44:17 2001 From: pug at pug.net (Pug Bainter) Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 20:44:17 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Announcement list magic... Message-ID: <20010503204417.B1144@stardock.pug.net> Good Morning, Not long ago I asked about doing an announcement list that was made up of other lists. The suggestion was to extract the members of the different lists and sync them onto a master list. In order to give people the option of only subscribing to the Announcement list, I've set it up so that there is a hidden Announcement list that is the place where mail is forwarded to and approved form. This works great but I have a couple questions. 1) Is there a way to extract only the members that are not set to nomail? I want to exclude people who are set to nomail because of choice or because of bouncing email. 2) Is there a way to link the archives of the hidden list with the published list? While I have changed the symlink in archives/public, I'm not sure if that is the correct way nor if it will last. Thanks a lot for feedback! Ciao, -- Pug Bainter | AMD, Inc. System Engineer, MTS | Mail Stop 625 Pug.Bainter at amd.com | pug at pug.net | 5900 E. Ben White Blvd Phone: (512) 602-0364 | Fax: (512) 602-6970 | Austin, TX 78741 Note: The views may not reflect my employers, or even my own for that matter. From pug at pug.net Fri May 4 03:57:23 2001 From: pug at pug.net (Pug Bainter) Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 20:57:23 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mime Stripper In-Reply-To: <200105011639.f41GdZQ24088@matthews.dairiki.org>; from dairiki@matthews.dairiki.org on Tue, May 01, 2001 at 09:39:35AM -0700 References: <200105011639.f41GdZQ24088@matthews.dairiki.org> Message-ID: <20010503205723.B1254@stardock.pug.net> Jeff Dairiki (dairiki at matthews.dairiki.org) said something that sounded like: > >> Does anyone know of a good Mime Stripper that can work with the > >> latest Sendmail? > Also note I've posted a de-Miming patch for Mailman. (SourceForge > patch #413752.) See: Btw, thank you for this. I installed the other night and I am very happy with it so far. Ciao, -- Pug Bainter | AMD, Inc. System Engineer, MTS | Mail Stop 625 Pug.Bainter at amd.com | pug at pug.net | 5900 E. Ben White Blvd Phone: (512) 602-0364 | Fax: (512) 602-6970 | Austin, TX 78741 Note: The views may not reflect my employers, or even my own for that matter. From dmick at utopia.West.Sun.COM Fri May 4 04:23:28 2001 From: dmick at utopia.West.Sun.COM (Dan Mick) Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 19:23:28 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Mailman-Users] "members-only" Message-ID: <200105040223.TAA22163@utopia.West.Sun.COM> So of course the "members-only" thing bounced two of my messages today, that actually had content in them, because I've been subscribed for long enough that my outgoing mail address changed (because of sysadmin addr-rewrite changes here at Sun, not because I changed location or uid or anything). So the "please, please, please stop all the spam, I can't take any delete key action" whining babies have lost you two answers to your questions. Good job, guys. From nmh at daemontech.com Fri May 4 04:41:41 2001 From: nmh at daemontech.com (Nicole Harrington) Date: Thu, 03 May 2001 19:41:41 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Mailman-Users] problem with archives - We're sorry, we hit a bug! Message-ID: I have several lists running on a server and I cannot access the archives on any or them. I have tried everything but it looks like it could be a bug. Any assistance would be much appreciated! Thanks! Nicole When I select "visit the listname Archives" I get: http://domain.com/mailman/archives/private/listname Which is odd as I thought it should be http://domain.com/pipermail/listname Response: ---------------- Content-type: text/html Bug in Mailman version 2.0.4 We're sorry, we hit a bug! Please inform the webmaster for this site of this problem. Printing of traceback and other system information has been explicitly inhibited, but the webmaster can find this information in the Mailman error logs. ---------------- My Traceback: May 03 19:33:33 2001 admin(19705): @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ admin(19705): [----- Mailman Version: 2.0.4 -----] admin(19705): [----- Traceback ------] admin(19705): Traceback (most recent call last): admin(19705): File "/home/mailman/scripts/driver", line 96, in run_main admin(19705): main() admin(19705): File "../Mailman/Cgi/archives.py", line 71, in main admin(19705): if len(list_info) < 1: admin(19705): TypeError: len() of unsized object admin(19705): [----- Python Information -----] admin(19705): sys.version = 2.0 (#2, Apr 25 2001, 17:29:29) [GCC 2.95.3 [FreeBSD] 20010315 (release)] admin(19705): sys.executable = /usr/local/bin/python admin(19705): sys.prefix = /usr/local admin(19705): sys.exec_prefix= /usr/local admin(19705): sys.path = /usr/local admin(19705): sys.platform = freebsd4 admin(19705): [----- Environment Variables -----] ---------------------------------- ---------------------------------- From Murat.Balkas at o2.com.tr Tue May 1 12:43:57 2001 From: Murat.Balkas at o2.com.tr (Murat Balkas) Date: Tue, 1 May 2001 13:43:57 +0300 Subject: [Mailman-Users] inviting users Message-ID: <000f01c0d22b$a0d05b50$0c2ba8c0@maslak.o2.net.tr> How can I invite the members of an alias to a list? I wat them to subscribe as their own e-mail addresses. Your help will be highly appreaciated. Murat From jtrigg at huiekin.org Tue May 1 19:02:20 2001 From: jtrigg at huiekin.org (jtrigg at huiekin.org) Date: Tue, 1 May 2001 13:02:20 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Oops - Message has implicit destination In-Reply-To: ; from wildwayz@clara.co.uk on Tue, May 01, 2001 at 05:46:50PM +0100 References: Message-ID: <20010501130220.E658@scadian.net> On Tue, May 01, 2001 at 05:46:50PM +0100, James Kapherr wrote: > Does anyone know how to stop this > "Blind carbon copies or other implicit destinations are not allowed. Try > reposting your message by explicitly including the list address in the To: > or Cc: fields." > > Every email that is sent to the mailing list gets bounced for admin > approval. > > The emails ARE sent in the TO: field - so I am not sure why it gives this > error. For some reason, Mailman considers e-addresses to be case-sensitive, so you need to add a regular expression that matches the list name ignoring case to the "Alias names (regexps) which qualify as explicit to or cc destination names for this list." field on the Privacy page of the administrative interface for the list. For example, if your list is "list at domain.com", you need to add "[Ll][Ii][Ss][Tt]" to the field. Can this be added to the FAQ, please? Thanks, -- Jim Trigg /"\ SKA Blaise de Cormeilles \ / ASCII RIBBON CAMPAIGN Hostmaster X HELP CURE HTML MAIL Academy of S. Gabriel / \ From marc_news at valinux.com Wed May 2 09:14:44 2001 From: marc_news at valinux.com (Marc MERLIN) Date: Wed, 2 May 2001 00:14:44 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: "could not acquire qrunner lock", etc (partially solved) In-Reply-To: <20010428210938.A25749@babel.fysh.org>; from mac@babel.fysh.org on Sat, Apr 28, 2001 at 09:09:38PM +0100 References: <20010424123006.A11710@babel.fysh.org> <20010425112429.A2698@babel.fysh.org> <20010428122553.A14496@babel.fysh.org> <20010428210938.A25749@babel.fysh.org> Message-ID: <20010502001444.J914@magic.merlins.org> On Sat, Apr 28, 2001 at 09:09:38PM +0100, Mike Crowe wrote: > I've discovered the cause of the CPU usage problem. I had ARCHIVE_TO_MBOX > set to the default of 2. It appears that the archiver eats an awful lot of > processor power - so much that the backlog caused by the earlier bug was > taking ages to clear. The qrunner would sit in the second part of > ToArchive::process for around fifteen minutes whilst holding onto the list > lock which stopped the web interface from working. Yep, this is known, I've had the same problem on several servers, including sourceforge.net, which only has 2G of memory a dual 800Mhz P3 or something, so don't feel inferior with your machine, it's the code that's at fault :-) The good news is that the mm folks know about this and redesigned the queueing system to avoid this holdup. All that said, pipermail will still not be an archiver of choice, you are encouraged to use something else. Empegs rule! :-) Marc -- Microsoft is to operating systems & security .... .... what McDonalds is to gourmet cooking Home page: http://marc.merlins.org/ | Finger marc_f at merlins.org for PGP key From marc_news at valinux.com Wed May 2 10:17:20 2001 From: marc_news at valinux.com (Marc MERLIN) Date: Wed, 2 May 2001 01:17:20 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: "could not acquire qrunner lock", etc (partially solved) In-Reply-To: <20010428210938.A25749@babel.fysh.org>; from mac@babel.fysh.org on Sat, Apr 28, 2001 at 09:09:38PM +0100 References: <20010424123006.A11710@babel.fysh.org> <20010425112429.A2698@babel.fysh.org> <20010428122553.A14496@babel.fysh.org> <20010428210938.A25749@babel.fysh.org> Message-ID: <20010502011720.B8043@magic.merlins.org> On Sat, Apr 28, 2001 at 09:09:38PM +0100, Mike Crowe wrote: > I've discovered the cause of the CPU usage problem. I had ARCHIVE_TO_MBOX > set to the default of 2. It appears that the archiver eats an awful lot of > processor power - so much that the backlog caused by the earlier bug was > taking ages to clear. The qrunner would sit in the second part of > ToArchive::process for around fifteen minutes whilst holding onto the list > lock which stopped the web interface from working. Yep, this is known, I've had the same problem on several servers, including sourceforge.net, which only has 2G of memory a dual 800Mhz P3 or something, so don't feel inferior with your machine, it's the code that's at fault :-) The good news is that the mm folks know about this and redesigned the queueing system to avoid this holdup. All that said, pipermail will still not be an archiver of choice, you are encouraged to use something else. Empegs rule! :-) Marc -- Microsoft is to operating systems & security .... .... what McDonalds is to gourmet cooking Home page: http://marc.merlins.org/ | Finger marc_f at merlins.org for PGP key From anasveld at ams.greenpeace.org Wed May 2 16:02:08 2001 From: anasveld at ams.greenpeace.org (Anne Nasveld) Date: Wed, 2 May 2001 15:02:08 +100 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Question on certain command Message-ID: <3AF02172.12092.2E3582@localhost> Dear madam / sir, Apparently Majordomo has been replaced by Mailman. In order to get an overview of the lists that I am subscribed to I used to send the command 'which' to Marjordomo. Would you know what the equivalent is for this command in Mailman? I haven't been able to detect it. Thanks very much in advance. Kind regards, Anne Nasveld From gentijo at eyecatching.com Wed May 2 17:53:50 2001 From: gentijo at eyecatching.com (John Gentilin) Date: Wed, 02 May 2001 08:53:50 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: Funny...Re: Request to mailing list Linux-ipsec rejected References: Message-ID: <3AF02D8D.2DFB7EAB@eyecatching.com> Nigel, When I said funny I though the message was manufactured by a list member to appear as if it was coming from the List Admin.... Anyway, the interface will not let me unsubscribe, I tried every thing but it just doesn't work. I even tried to subscribe using the same email address (from the web page) then immediately unsubscribing but that only got me in a mode where the traffic doubled for a bit. The mailman home page shows you a list of their subscribers is a slightly obfuscated way then makes you log into the account to change your information. Can you turn this interface one, if only for a few days to allow people to settle their accounts then close it up again ?? NOTE TO THE MAILMAN LIST: Does anyone have any ideas here. We are having problems allowing people to unsubscribe from the list. Thanks -JG Nigel Metheringham wrote: > johnglinux at eyecatching.com said: > > linux-ipsec-admin at exim.org wrote: > > My apologies - I got a whole heap of messages caught by the exploder > list's filters at a point where I was mentally obviously not equipped > to deal with them appropriately. I let my frustration a little too > much free rein. > > However long discussions on subscribing/unsubscribing from the list are > not good list material. > > You can sub or unsub from the filtered exploder list (obviously only > unsub if you are subed to the exploder :-) ), at > http://www.exim.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-ipsec > > If you are subscribed via the exploder (which will have meant you > subscribed yourself to it ), then the posts you receive will have a one > line sig attached to the bottom:- > ## List details at http://www.exim.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-ipsec > FreeS/WAN details at http://www.freeswan.org/ ## > > Frequent posters to the main ipsec list are normally subscribed to the > exploder, but with their preferences set to not deliver mail to them > (this allows their postings to not be held for moderation). If they > wish to join the exploder then they will find it thinks they are > already subscribed. In that case ask it for your password and then set > your preferences to mail. > > Nigel. > -- > [ Nigel Metheringham Nigel.Metheringham at InTechnology.co.uk ] > [ Phone: +44 1423 850000 Fax +44 1423 858866 ] > [ - Comments in this message are my own and not ITO opinion/policy - ] From marc_news at valinux.com Wed May 2 19:04:05 2001 From: marc_news at valinux.com (Marc MERLIN) Date: Wed, 2 May 2001 10:04:05 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: "could not acquire qrunner lock", etc (partially solved) In-Reply-To: <20010502112758.A27738@babel.fysh.org>; from mac@babel.fysh.org on Wed, May 02, 2001 at 11:27:58AM +0100 References: <20010424123006.A11710@babel.fysh.org> <20010425112429.A2698@babel.fysh.org> <20010428122553.A14496@babel.fysh.org> <20010428210938.A25749@babel.fysh.org> <20010502001444.J914@magic.merlins.org> <20010502112758.A27738@babel.fysh.org> Message-ID: <20010502100405.K21233@magic.merlins.org> On Wed, May 02, 2001 at 11:27:58AM +0100, Mike Crowe wrote: > > The good news is that the mm folks know about this and redesigned the > > queueing system to avoid this holdup. All that said, pipermail will still > > not be an archiver of choice, you are encouraged to use something else. > > Is anything recommended? Ideally something that will turn the mbox files > into nice HTML every night without keeping the list locked. That's what I thought of too, but there isn't any direct way to do this in mailman. That said, nothing prevents you from running the archiver code by hand against the mailbox (something like grepmail todaysdate mbox | formail -s scriptthatrunsarchiver) Pipermail however does remain slow and inefficient (it can use huge amounts of CPU and RAM), and this is known, no one is actively maintaining the code and people who have real archiver needs are typically encouraged to use monharc. Cheers, Marc -- Microsoft is to operating systems & security .... .... what McDonalds is to gourmet cooking Home page: http://marc.merlins.org/ | Finger marc_f at merlins.org for PGP key From robert.risch at philips.com Thu May 3 08:03:51 2001 From: robert.risch at philips.com (robert.risch at philips.com) Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 08:03:51 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Wishlist: weekly digest Message-ID: <0056890028374266000002L962*@MHS> Hallo, I wish that mailman 3.0 can send out digest in varius granuality. Not only 1 per day, also 1 per week (or other rates). I know that it is only feasibly to add a fixed number of options. For the addition of 1 per week digest the system must generate every day not only the digest of the day, it must then also generate a digest from the last week. Maybe it is also feasible to generate this weekly index only one time per week, but then the mail traffic from the weekly digest list members concentrate on one day. Thank you, good work Robert From mc2575 at mclink.it Thu May 3 21:27:33 2001 From: mc2575 at mclink.it (mc2575 at mclink.it) Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 21:27:33 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Configure main page. Message-ID: <003501c0d407$1b93bb20$fa00a8c0@homelan.org> I like to add in the main page some links, but LISTINFO is hard-coded. How it's possible to modifify it? Cheers. Alberto Italy -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20010503/7a5d56b6/attachment.html From dan.mick at west.sun.com Thu May 3 21:51:59 2001 From: dan.mick at west.sun.com (Dan Mick) Date: Thu, 03 May 2001 12:51:59 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] MHonArc References: Message-ID: <3AF1B6DF.EF5D18C2@west.sun.com> Tanya Brethour wrote: > > Quick question: > > I am converting to use the mhonarc archiver instead of the builtin mailman > archiver because of the MIME attachment issue. I was curious how people > integrate the two. > > Do you turn off archiving in mailman? > Do you just run a cron job to update the archive? > In order to have it group things by months (like mailman does) do I have > to rotate or move the mailbox each month?? > > I'm currently still trying to figure out all the mhonarc does.. so please > excuse my questions if they seem simple. Yeah, I'm about to start down this road too, and am thinking of Hypermail instead because my server is pretty underpowered at this point, and Yet Another Interpreted Memory Hog Language might just send it packing. People have reported on successes on this list, so perhaps downloading the mail archive and perusing would be worth your time; I plan on doing that later today. From rvinas at emlab.com Fri May 4 02:50:25 2001 From: rvinas at emlab.com (emlab) Date: Thu, 03 May 2001 17:50:25 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Post a message without sending email to all list users Message-ID: Is it possible to 'only' post a message and 'not' send an email to all the current list members? Is that at all possible? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Randy From dmick at utopia.West.Sun.COM Fri May 4 04:16:45 2001 From: dmick at utopia.West.Sun.COM (Dan Mick) Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 19:16:45 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Mailman-Users] Announcement list magic... Message-ID: <200105040216.TAA21760@utopia.West.Sun.COM> > 1) Is there a way to extract only the members that are not set to nomail? > I want to exclude people who are set to nomail because of choice or > because of bouncing email. You could hack this bin/withlist script, which finds the "nomail" members: import sys import Mailman.mm_cfg def nomail(list): for member in list.members.keys(): try: if list.user_options[member] & Mailman.mm_cfg.DisableDelivery: print member except: print >> sys.stderr, "%s has no user_options" % member pass for member in list.digest_members.keys(): try: if list.user_options[member] & Mailman.mm_cfg.DisableDelivery: print member except: # normal for digest_members to have no options; means MIME digests pass sys.exit(0) From benwa at ocentrix.net Fri May 4 05:49:56 2001 From: benwa at ocentrix.net (Ben Burnett) Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 20:49:56 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Configure main page. Message-ID: <200105040349.f443nuL28701@mail.ocentrix.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20010503/c5bf74bc/attachment.htm From claw at kanga.nu Fri May 4 08:41:45 2001 From: claw at kanga.nu (J C Lawrence) Date: Thu, 03 May 2001 23:41:45 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] MHonArc In-Reply-To: Message from Dan Mick of "Thu, 03 May 2001 12:51:59 PDT." <3AF1B6DF.EF5D18C2@west.sun.com> References: <3AF1B6DF.EF5D18C2@west.sun.com> Message-ID: <17169.988958505@kanga.nu> On Thu, 03 May 2001 12:51:59 -0700 Dan Mick wrote: > Yeah, I'm about to start down this road too, and am thinking of > Hypermail instead because my server is pretty underpowered at this > point, MHonArc's concumption is pretty closely related to the number of messages in the archive it is processing. The resource consumption bit is also why I hang MHonArc off a cron job rather than archiving every message while it is sent (who cares about CPU usage in the wee hours of the morning?) -- J C Lawrence claw at kanga.nu ---------(*) http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/ --=| A man is as sane as he is dangerous to his environment |=-- From Murat.Balkas at o2.com.tr Fri May 4 08:38:59 2001 From: Murat.Balkas at o2.com.tr (Murat Balkas) Date: Fri, 4 May 2001 09:38:59 +0300 Subject: [Mailman-Users] to prevent unsubscribing Message-ID: <015b01c0d464$e7d68e30$0c2ba8c0@maslak.o2.net.tr> Hi, how can I prevent members to unsubscribe from lists? Thanks, Murat From mdunston at music.vt.edu Fri May 4 09:41:50 2001 From: mdunston at music.vt.edu (Michael Dunston) Date: Fri, 4 May 2001 03:41:50 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] browser compatibility of admin interface? Message-ID: <20010504074150.19239@mail.music.vt.edu> Has anyone used the OmniWeb 4.0 rc1 browser with the admin pages? Tonight I used it to remove a single user (by unchecking their 'subscr' option in the membership management section) and it unsubscribed every user (all 30) in that chunk of the membership list. Thanks. . . . . . . . . . . . Michael Dunston Music and Technology http://www.music.vt.edu Virginia Tech School of the Arts From bvo at atz.nl Fri May 4 10:57:00 2001 From: bvo at atz.nl (B. van Ouwerkerk) Date: Fri, 04 May 2001 10:57:00 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] "members-only" In-Reply-To: <200105040223.TAA22163@utopia.West.Sun.COM> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20010504095407.00bacf00@pop.atz-hosting.nl> >So the "please, please, please stop all the spam, I can't take any >delete key action" whining babies have lost you two answers to your >questions. Good job, guys. Think you're missing the point here. You could subscribe with your new address and remove the old. /me is getting enough spam without those messages coming via lists. And have to download it via a dailup. /me (and many others) are sick of getting spam and having to download the sh*t. If spammers would be polite enough to add something like "this is spam" to the subject it would be much easier to procmail those to /dev/null. I think I'm missing an option in mailman, at least, I couldn't find it in the admin pages.... Hold non-members post for approval.. This would prevent people from getting bounces if they accidently send from a non-subscribed address. Bye, B. From pug at pug.net Fri May 4 14:33:51 2001 From: pug at pug.net (Pug Bainter) Date: Fri, 4 May 2001 07:33:51 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Loooooonnnnnnnngggggg archive conversion... In-Reply-To: <20010503202220.D8043@magic.merlins.org>; from marc_news@valinux.com on Thu, May 03, 2001 at 08:22:20PM -0700 References: <20010503204417.B1144@stardock.pug.net> <20010503203522.A1144@stardock.pug.net> <20010503202220.D8043@magic.merlins.org> Message-ID: <20010504073351.C2479@stardock.pug.net> Marc MERLIN (marc_news at valinux.com) said something that sounded like: > > How long would one expect a 116M mbox to convert? Are there thoughts > > on improving performance of this conversion? > Pipermail is very inefficient and very memory hungry (I've had it run out or > Ram on a 512MB machine). The only real solution is to suffer through it, or > not to use it and use monharc instead. I will go back through the archives and read about the side-effects of monharc real quick. > On Thu, May 03, 2001 at 08:44:17PM -0500, Pug Bainter wrote: > > 1) Is there a way to extract only the members that are not set to nomail? > Another alternative to the script that was given to you is: That's doable, as well as possibly the withlist script posted last night. Where are the bits documented? > > 2) Is there a way to link the archives of the hidden list with the > > published list? While I have changed the symlink in archives/public, > > I'm not sure if that is the correct way nor if it will last. > That should actually be it. It will work until someone tries to switch the > archives to private and back to public, which will reset the symlink. It seemed too easy. > Of course, you have two symlinks: list and list.mbox Yep. Ciao, -- Phelim "Pug" Gervase | "I want to be called. COTTONTIPS. There is something Bryn Gwlad - Ansteorra | graceful about that lady. A young woman bursting with Dark Horde Moritu | vigor. She blinked at the sudden light. She writes pug at pug.net | beautiful poems. When ever shall we meet again?" Note: The views do not reflect the SCA nor the Kingdom of Ansteorra. From lennu at tietoverkot.net Fri May 4 15:03:39 2001 From: lennu at tietoverkot.net (Len Merikanto) Date: Fri, 4 May 2001 16:03:39 +0300 (EEST) Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman on Solaris8 Message-ID: After succesful transfer from freebsd to solaris8 i started getting this type of error: Apr 23 09:22:14 2001 (37539) Delivery exception: host not found Apr 23 09:22:14 2001 (37539) Traceback (innermost last): File "/var/mail/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/HandlerAPI.py", line 82, in do_pipeline func(mlist, msg, msgdata) File "/var/mail/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/SMTPDirect.py", line 110, in process mlist.RegisterBounce(recip, msg) File "/var/mail/mailman/Mailman/Bouncer.py", line 141, in RegisterBounce self.HandleBouncingAddress(addr, msg) File "/var/mail/mailman/Mailman/Bouncer.py", line 205, in HandleBouncingAddress boundary = mimetools.choose_boundary() File "/usr/local/lib/python1.5/mimetools.py", line 116, in choose_boundary hostid = socket.gethostbyname(socket.gethostname()) error: host not found Hostname is ok. domain name is ok. What can this problem be? Len Merikanto, Phone: +358968691950 Tietoverkot Oy Mobile: +358409008494 Munkkisaarenkatu 2 Fax: +358968691935 00150 Helsinki, Finland From kmccann at bellanet.org Fri May 4 15:16:41 2001 From: kmccann at bellanet.org (Kevin McCann) Date: Fri, 04 May 2001 09:16:41 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] to prevent unsubscribing In-Reply-To: <015b01c0d464$e7d68e30$0c2ba8c0@maslak.o2.net.tr> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010504090937.06c87eb0@internet.idrc.ca> At 09:38 AM 2001/05/04 +0300, Murat Balkas wrote: >Hi, > > how can I prevent members to unsubscribe from lists? Hello Murat, List management software doesn't generally allow you to keep people on lists when they don't want to be. There are probably ways you could hide unsubscribe instructions from users, but I believe there should always be a way for people to unsubscribe. They may not *want* the messages your list is sending them. Also, their email address might change (ISP changes, mail servers may be renamed, etc., etc). You may feel you have good reason to deny unsubscribes, but it is probably better to provide content that makes people *want* to remain subscribed. Regards, Kevin From barry at digicool.com Fri May 4 18:09:17 2001 From: barry at digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw) Date: Fri, 4 May 2001 12:09:17 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman on Solaris8 References: Message-ID: <15090.54317.746233.917396@anthem.wooz.org> >>>>> "LM" == Len Merikanto writes: | choose_boundary | hostid = socket.gethostbyname(socket.gethostname()) | error: host not found LM> Hostname is ok. domain name is ok. LM> What can this problem be? gethostname or gethostbyname is misconfigured? ;) Try this in straight Python: -------------------- snip snip -------------------- % /usr/bin/python Python 1.5.2 (#1, Sep 17 1999, 20:15:36) [GCC egcs-2.91.66 19990314/Linux (egcs- on linux-i386 Copyright 1991-1995 Stichting Mathematisch Centrum, Amsterdam >>> from socket import * >>> gethostname() 'anthem' >>> gethostbyname(gethostname()) '192.168.1.2' -------------------- snip snip -------------------- Do you get the hostname and IP address as expected? If not, then it's a DNS, NIS, or /etc/hosts problem (i.e. a system configuration problem and not Python or Mailman). -Barry From lennu at tietoverkot.net Fri May 4 18:10:48 2001 From: lennu at tietoverkot.net (Len Merikanto) Date: Fri, 4 May 2001 19:10:48 +0300 (EEST) Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman on Solaris8 In-Reply-To: <15090.54317.746233.917396@anthem.wooz.org> Message-ID: On Fri, 4 May 2001, Barry A. Warsaw wrote: > > >>>>> "LM" == Len Merikanto writes: > > | choose_boundary > | hostid = socket.gethostbyname(socket.gethostname()) > | error: host not found > > LM> Hostname is ok. domain name is ok. > > LM> What can this problem be? > > gethostname or gethostbyname is misconfigured? ;) > > Try this in straight Python: > > -------------------- snip snip -------------------- > % /usr/bin/python > Python 1.5.2 (#1, Sep 17 1999, 20:15:36) [GCC egcs-2.91.66 19990314/Linux (egcs- on linux-i386 > Copyright 1991-1995 Stichting Mathematisch Centrum, Amsterdam > >>> from socket import * > >>> gethostname() > 'anthem' > >>> gethostbyname(gethostname()) > '192.168.1.2' > -------------------- snip snip -------------------- > > Do you get the hostname and IP address as expected? If not, then it's > a DNS, NIS, or /etc/hosts problem (i.e. a system configuration problem > and not Python or Mailman). > > -Barry > Retried everything if i do everything from the scratch. ie install mailman and do not upgrade it. just install from scratch it works. then when i copt all files from mailman dir on freebsd move them to solaris reisntall mailman like upgrade it everything goes wrong. and i get that error. also tried only just copy lists from lists dir of freebsd mailman and the mm_cfg.py from Mailman dir into solaris i get it halfly working. i can see listinfo but cannot admin nor do anything to lists. Len Merikanto, Phone: +358968691950 Tietoverkot Oy Mobile: +358409008494 Munkkisaarenkatu 2 Fax: +358968691935 00150 Helsinki, Finland From barry at digicool.com Fri May 4 18:15:57 2001 From: barry at digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw) Date: Fri, 4 May 2001 12:15:57 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman on Solaris8 References: <15090.54317.746233.917396@anthem.wooz.org> Message-ID: <15090.54717.882932.635130@anthem.wooz.org> >>>>> "LM" == Len Merikanto writes: LM> Retried everything if i do everything from the scratch. LM> ie install mailman and do not upgrade it. LM> just install from scratch it works. LM> then when i copt all files from mailman dir on freebsd move LM> them to solaris reisntall mailman like upgrade it everything LM> goes wrong. LM> and i get that error. also tried only just copy lists from LM> lists dir of freebsd mailman and the mm_cfg.py from Mailman LM> dir into solaris i get it halfly working. i can see listinfo LM> but cannot admin nor do anything to lists. Did you try going to the shell prompt, running Python interactively, and typing in that Python code? What do you get for that? I would suggest that you do a fresh install on Solaris, then if you want to move the `lists' subdir from FreeBSD, that should work. -Barry From barry at digicool.com Fri May 4 18:58:54 2001 From: barry at digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw) Date: Fri, 4 May 2001 12:58:54 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 2.0.5 patch Message-ID: <15090.57294.242909.931852@anthem.wooz.org> Hi all, I've uploaded the Mailman 2.0.5 patch and tarball to SourceForge. Please check out http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=103 I've tested this on my system and on {python,zope}.org and it seems to work well. Still, I would love to get some feedback on this specific patch before making a wider announcement (won't it be great when I have a unit test suite? :). Please give it a shot and let me know. If there are no showstoppers, I will make the announcement on Monday. Thanks, -Barry From mrbill at mrbill.net Fri May 4 18:11:01 2001 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Fri, 4 May 2001 11:11:01 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] "exception reading qfile" Message-ID: <20010504111100.K11406@mrbill.net> Seeing a lot of these lately, but everything seems to be working okay . . running 2.0.4 / Python 2.1 under Postfix.. May 04 11:09:03 2001 (3140) Exception reading qfile: /usr/local/mailman/qfiles/130461b8dcdde46a1be4468a21cdd61dea444deb [Errno 2] No such file or directory: '/usr/local/mailman/qfiles/130461b8dcdde46a1be4468a21cdd61dea444deb.db' May 04 11:09:03 2001 (3140) Exception reading qfile: /usr/local/mailman/qfiles/fa9505d61b4a724fe50e29fb9a0a0d622c2d36ce [Errno 2] No such file or directory: '/usr/local/mailman/qfiles/fa9505d61b4a724fe50e29fb9a0a0d622c2d36ce.db' May 04 11:10:05 2001 (3480) Exception reading qfile: /usr/local/mailman/qfiles/32cc45c1b567ea4a21478ea362d26fe7cfae5560 -- Bill Bradford mrbill at mrbill.net Austin, TX From bonneville at un.org Fri May 4 19:33:54 2001 From: bonneville at un.org (Elise Bonneville) Date: Fri, 4 May 2001 13:33:54 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] changing the error html page Message-ID: Is there a way to modify the error page that is displayed after a user enters an non-subscribed email address on the listinfo page when trying to modify their options? I modified the four html pages (listinfo, subscribe results, options, options results) from the admin interface, but I cannot find the option to change the error page. If it is not possible to do so from the admin interface, how would I go about this? Thanks for your help, Elise Bonneville From adam at morrison-ind.com Fri May 4 20:44:43 2001 From: adam at morrison-ind.com (Adam Tauno Williams) Date: Fri, 04 May 2001 14:44:43 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Mailman-Users] smrsh oddity Message-ID: <989001882.3af2f89b00bc7@barracuda> I have Mailman installed on a RH7 box (sendmail 8.11.0-8 & python 1.5.2.-27). I can create lists and see the administrative pages. I have a sym-link in /etc/smrsh to /usr/local/mailman/mail/wrapper, I can smrsh -c wrapper and I get a message "Usage: /etc/smrsh/wrapper program [args...]" so I think that is working. However if I try to send a message to the list-name I get the following in my maillog: May 4 14:39:25 kohocton Mailman mail-wrapper: Usage: /etc/smrsh/wrapper program [args...] May 4 14:40:20 kohocton sendmail[13068]: f44IeKl13068: from=adam, size=41, class=0, nrcpts=1, msgid=<200105041840.f44IeKl13068 at kohocton.morrison.iserv.net>, relay=adam at localhost May 4 14:40:22 kohocton smrsh: uid 8: attempt to use wrapper.post.morrison-cisMay 4 14:40:22 kohocton sendmail[13070]: f44IeKl13068: to=|/usr/local/mailman/mail/wrapper post morrison-cis, ctladdr=morrison-cis (8/0), delay=00:00:02, xdelay=00:00:02, mailer=prog, pri=30041, dsn=5.0.0, stat=Service unavailable May 4 14:40:22 kohocton sendmail[13070]: f44IeKl13068: f44IeMk13070: DSN: Service unavailable May 4 14:40:22 kohocton sendmail[13070]: f44IeMk13070: to=adam, delay=00:00:00, xdelay=00:00:00, mailer=relay, pri=30141, relay=sardine.morrison.iserv.net. [192.168.1.12], dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent (f44IeM109366 Message accepted for deliver And a bounce message like: ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors ----- |/usr/local/mailman/mail/wrapper post morrison-cis (reason: service unavailable) (expanded from: morrison-cis) ----- Transcript of session follows ----- smrsh: wrapper.post.morrison-cis not available for sendmail programs 554 5.0.0 |/usr/local/mailman/mail/wrapper post morrison-cis... Service unavailable Systems and Network Administrator Morrison Industries 1825 Monroe Ave NW. Grand Rapids, MI. 49505 From benwa at ocentrix.net Fri May 4 20:41:02 2001 From: benwa at ocentrix.net (Ben Burnett) Date: Fri, 4 May 2001 11:41:02 -0700 Subject: Fw: Re: [Mailman-Users] Setting up Message-ID: <200105041841.f44If2K03938@mail.ocentrix.net> Hey Moderators, I posted this message below from a Joydesk MUA installation that makes my sending address benwa(AT)ocentrix.net. This address IS NOT subscribed to this list. Joydesk doesn't allow me to change this. It does allow me to set my Reply-To address to benwa(AT)ocentrix.com which IS subscribed. After I posted this message I got an email saying that my post was being held for approval (I expected this). However I did not expect to get the following message today. --start-- Your request to the Mailman-Users mailing list Posting of your message titled "Re: [Mailman-Users] Setting up" has been rejected by the list moderator. The moderator gave the following reason for rejecting your request: "Non-members are not allowed to post messages to this list." Any questions or comments should be directed to the list administrator at: mailman-users-admin at python.org --end-- I don't like the spam that this list has been getting and I'm glad that member posting only is enabled. However, I still think that it is the duty of moderators to review the posts that are held for approval. The message I posted was obviously a reply to an earlier post and definitely had to do with Mailman. Perhaps Mailman should have a way of flagging held posts that have a Reply-To address that IS subscribed. I'd be willing to contribute what little coding ability I have to something like that if others think it could be usefull. In the meantime I have subscribed my sending address and set it to no mail. Damn Spamn! - Ben ------- Original Copy ------- Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Setting up Date: 05/02/2001 11:29 AM From: Ben Burnett To: mailman-users at python.org, steve at vision-games.com Reply-To: benwa at ocentrix.com ------- Original Copy ------- >Subject: [Mailman-Users] Setting up >Date: 05/01/2001 4:02 PM >From: >To: >Reply-To: >How can I set this list up as a non-discussion >list? > I have attached a working draft of some html documentation that I'm putting together for creating announce only lists. All that's missing at this point is some screenshots. Please let me know it you find it useful. When I get the time to put together some screen shots I'll post it all online. -Ben -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: announce_only.gz Type: application/octet-stream Size: 0 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20010504/1fe69843/attachment.obj From neel at mediapulse.com Fri May 4 20:51:11 2001 From: neel at mediapulse.com (Michael Neel) Date: Fri, 4 May 2001 14:51:11 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] changing the error html page Message-ID: <7C0860C7F381C64DA185F431FE57C42A16AF34@JOHNSON.mediapulse.net> Okay, first understand 2 things - I'm new to mailman and I don't know python. That being said, here's what I did... Mailman seems to not use a template for error pages - not even a global one (I could be wrong) so I changed the errors to use the subscribe results template. Please note - I have removed a lot of choices from the template pages since I'm dealing with announce lists and some stuff (like digests) didn't make sense. Edit the Mailman/Cgi/subscribe.py file (after backing it up!) Around line 85 or so you see: # Go to user options section. if not form.has_key("info"): doc.AddItem(Header(2, "Error")) doc.AddItem(Bold("You must supply your email address.")) doc.AddItem(mlist.GetMailmanFooter()) print doc.Format(bgcolor="#ffffff") return addr = form['info'].value member = mlist.FindUser(addr) if not member: doc.AddItem(Header(2, "Error")) doc.AddItem(Bold("%s has no subscribed addr %s." % (mlist.real_name, addr))) doc.AddItem(mlist.GetMailmanFooter()) print doc.Format(bgcolor="#ffffff") return Change it to be: # Go to user options section. if not form.has_key("info"): #doc.AddItem(Header(2, "Error")) #doc.AddItem(Bold("You must supply your email address.")) #doc.AddItem(mlist.GetMailmanFooter()) #print doc.Format(bgcolor="#ffffff") results = 'You must supply your email address.' PrintResults(mlist, results, doc) return addr = form['info'].value member = mlist.FindUser(addr) if not member: #doc.AddItem(Header(2, "Error")) #doc.AddItem(Bold("%s has no subscribed addr %s." # % (mlist.real_name, addr))) #doc.AddItem(mlist.GetMailmanFooter()) #print doc.Format(bgcolor="#ffffff") results = "%s has no subscribed addr %s." % (mlist.real_name, addr) PrintResults(mlist, results, doc) return Please not - as I have found out very painfully python likes it's whitespace! Be careful when editing (I should get a book on python soon ;) I hope this helps! Mike From adam at morrison-ind.com Fri May 4 21:08:38 2001 From: adam at morrison-ind.com (Adam Tauno Williams) Date: Fri, 04 May 2001 15:08:38 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Mailman-Users] smrsh oddity In-Reply-To: <951703DE931CD511A80600A0C9825BAA268D@BETH-EMAIL> References: <951703DE931CD511A80600A0C9825BAA268D@BETH-EMAIL> Message-ID: <989003318.3af2fe36c27ac@barracuda> >Who owns the symlink in smrsh. that might be the problem. You might >be able to run it as root:root but not as mail:mail. I just finished >working on a network firewall logging program using sendmail and smrsh >and saw this error several times until I got all the permissions right. Owner of the link was root.root, I changed it to mail.mail. Current permissions are: ls -l /etc/smrsh/wrapper lrwxrwxrwx 1 mail mail 31 May 3 16:31 /etc/smrsh/wrapper -> /usr/local/mailman/mail/wrapper ls -l /usr/local/mailman/mail/wrapper -rwxr-xr-x 1 mail maillist 37461 May 3 18:02 /usr/local/mailman/mail/wrapper Still get: May 4 15:03:44 kohocton sendmail[13216]: f44J3i313216: from=adam, size=41, class=0, nrcpts=1, msgid=<200105041903.f44J3i313216 at kohocton.morrison.iserv.net>, relay=adam at localhost May 4 15:03:46 kohocton smrsh: uid 8: attempt to use wrapper.post.morrison-cisMay 4 15:03:46 kohocton sendmail[13218]: f44J3i313216: to=|/usr/local/mailman/mail/wrapper post morrison-cis, ctladdr=morrison-cis (8/0), delay=00:00:02, xdelay=00:00:02, mailer=prog, pri=30041, dsn=5.0.0, stat=Service unavailable May 4 15:03:46 kohocton sendmail[13218]: f44J3i313216: f44J3k213218: DSN: Service unavailable UID 8 = Mail From adam at morrison-ind.com Fri May 4 21:27:33 2001 From: adam at morrison-ind.com (Adam Tauno Williams) Date: Fri, 04 May 2001 15:27:33 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Mailman-Users] smrsh oddity In-Reply-To: <951703DE931CD511A80600A0C9825BAA268E@BETH-EMAIL> References: <951703DE931CD511A80600A0C9825BAA268E@BETH-EMAIL> Message-ID: <989004453.3af302a51f67a@barracuda> >mine points like this >wrapper -> /usr/lib/mailman/mail/wrapper >your is pointing to /usr/local/mailman/mail/wrapper >I checked (now that I am back at my desk) and mine is owned by >root:root. sorry for the wild goose chase. >did you install from mailman rpm? No, I got the TGZ. There's an RPM!? Systems and Network Administrator Morrison Industries 1825 Monroe Ave NW. Grand Rapids, MI. 49505 From lennu at tietoverkot.net Fri May 4 21:28:29 2001 From: lennu at tietoverkot.net (Len Merikanto) Date: Fri, 4 May 2001 22:28:29 +0300 (EEST) Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman on Solaris8 In-Reply-To: <15090.54717.882932.635130@anthem.wooz.org> Message-ID: On Fri, 4 May 2001, Barry A. Warsaw wrote: > > >>>>> "LM" == Len Merikanto writes: > > LM> Retried everything if i do everything from the scratch. > LM> ie install mailman and do not upgrade it. > LM> just install from scratch it works. > > LM> then when i copt all files from mailman dir on freebsd move > LM> them to solaris reisntall mailman like upgrade it everything > LM> goes wrong. > > LM> and i get that error. also tried only just copy lists from > LM> lists dir of freebsd mailman and the mm_cfg.py from Mailman > LM> dir into solaris i get it halfly working. i can see listinfo > LM> but cannot admin nor do anything to lists. > > Did you try going to the shell prompt, running Python interactively, > and typing in that Python code? What do you get for that? > > I would suggest that you do a fresh install on Solaris, then if you > want to move the `lists' subdir from FreeBSD, that should work. > > -Barry > root at research:/var/mail/mailman# python Python 1.6a2 (#1, Jun 1 2000, 13:24:17) [GCC 2.96 20000306 (experimental)] on sunos5 Copyright 1991-1995 Stichting Mathematisch Centrum, Amsterdam >>> from socket import * >>> gethostname() 'research' >>> gethostbyname(gethostname()) '194.100.91.154' Seems to work fine. now if i just copy recursively the lists dir from freebsd to solaris things just dont work. but if i leave it untouched and do test mailing list it works fine. Len Merikanto, Phone: +358968691950 Tietoverkot Oy Mobile: +358409008494 Munkkisaarenkatu 2 Fax: +358968691935 00150 Helsinki, Finland From adam at morrison-ind.com Fri May 4 21:37:31 2001 From: adam at morrison-ind.com (Adam Tauno Williams) Date: Fri, 04 May 2001 15:37:31 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Mailman-Users] smrsh oddity In-Reply-To: <951703DE931CD511A80600A0C9825BAA268F@BETH-EMAIL> References: <951703DE931CD511A80600A0C9825BAA268F@BETH-EMAIL> Message-ID: <989005051.3af304fb6438f@barracuda> >I would check to make sure the link is right and that the directory >where the wrapper is located you can get to it as the user mail. I suspect >that some where there is a permission problem getting to the wrapper program. #su - mail sh-2.04$ whoami mail sh-2.04$ ls -l /usr/local/mailman/mail total 40 -rwxr-xr-x 1 mail maillist 37461 May 3 18:02 wrapper sh-2.04$ ls -l /usr/local/mailman/mail/wrapper -rwxr-xr-x 1 mail maillist 37461 May 3 18:02 /usr/local/mailman/mail/wrapper sh-2.04$ /usr/local/mailman/mail/wrapper Usage: /usr/local/mailman/mail/wrapper program [args...] sh-2.04$ /usr/sbin/smrsh -c wrapper Usage: /etc/smrsh/wrapper program [args...] sh-2.04$ /usr/sbin/smrsh -c /usr/local/mailman/mail/wrapper Usage: /etc/smrsh/wrapper program [args...] sh-2.04$ /usr/sbin/smrsh -c /bin/ls /usr/sbin/smrsh: ls not available for sendmail programs I don't think it's a permisssions issue, at least not a simple one. Systems and Network Administrator Morrison Industries 1825 Monroe Ave NW. Grand Rapids, MI. 49505 From skroeger at cs.iastate.edu Fri May 4 15:41:23 2001 From: skroeger at cs.iastate.edu (Steven Kroeger) Date: Fri, 4 May 2001 08:41:23 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] correct configure options Message-ID: <01050408412302.13255@fremd.cs.iastate.edu> Hiya, I'm trying to install mailman on a redhat 7.1 machine. So far I've got everything to install and created a test list. When I tried to access this list I got the follwing error. ---- Mailman CGI error!!! The expected gid of the Mailman CGI wrapper did not match the gid as set by the Web server. The most likely cause is that Mailman was configured and installed incorrectly. Please read the INSTALL instructions again, paying close attention to the --with-cgi-gid configure option. This entry is being stored in your syslog: Failure to exec script. WANTED gid 99, GOT gid 48. (Reconfigure to take 48?) ---- Initailly I just ran ./configure with no options in hte mailman source directory but after trying to figure this eror out I tried to reconfigure with --with-cgi-gid 48 and then --with-cgi-gid apache. the Group option in my httpd.conf file is apache and apache's gid is 48 But so far I've got this error when trying to use this option ---- configure: error: ***** No existing group found for the cgi_wrapper program. ***** This is the group that your Web server runs CGI scripts under. ***** You might want to specify an existing group with the ***** --with-cgi-gid configure option. Please see your Web server's ***** documentation, and the INSTALL file for details ---- I'm new to a lot of this so if someone could point me in the right direction it would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Steven. From benwa at ocentrix.net Fri May 4 21:53:16 2001 From: benwa at ocentrix.net (Ben Burnett) Date: Fri, 4 May 2001 12:53:16 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] changing the error html page Message-ID: <200105041953.f44JrGV04819@mail.ocentrix.net> Are you doing this as a Malman installation admin or as a list admin? Do you want your changes to be sitewide, or per list? You can't do this as a list admin. And, you can't do this per list as an installation admin either. If you want to make sitewide changes to the error page you can do this by editing the file $prefix/Mailman/Cgi/subscribe.py I did this at http://www.ridersconnection.com/ by changing the definition of the "main" function. I added a logo to the top of the page by adding two lines to the top of the function as shown below ---code--- def main(): doc = Document() # lets see if we can insert an image at the top of this page doc.AddItem('<img src="/mailmanlogos/riders_connection_header.png" width="750" height="115" alt="Ocentrix Riders\' Connection" border="0">') ---more code--- (replace < and > above with < and > respectively if you're viewing this in plain text) A lot of the pages output by the scripts in $prefix/Mailman/Cgi/ are generated by the python code in the scripts themselves. If you take a look at $prefix/Mailman/htmlformat.py you'll see a lot of functions that are used for this purpose. Perhaps you could use these to make the changes that you'd like to see. -Ben From mozart at lib.uchicago.edu Fri May 4 22:18:44 2001 From: mozart at lib.uchicago.edu (Peggy Wilkins) Date: Fri, 04 May 2001 15:18:44 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] trouble with wrapper Message-ID: <20010504151844J.mozart@lib.uchicago.edu> i have recently installed mailman version 2.0.3 on FreeBSD 4.3-RC via the ports. i use sendmail 8.11.3 and Apache 1.3.19. the web interface works great, but i can't get anything sent to mailman via email to work; the mail disappears, and no errors are logged anywhere. it looks to me like everything is set up correctly. i set up the recommended "test" list using newlist, and entered the following in sendmail's aliases file: test: "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/wrapper post test" test-admin: "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/wrapper mailowner test" test-request: "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/wrapper mailcmd test" test-owner: test-admin i also set up mail.debug logging via syslog.conf. the log entries via syslog show that the messages sent to any of the "test" addresses as above are received and delivered to wrapper via pipe, but no errors are logged. to try to debug this, i mv'd /usr/local/mailman/mail/wrapper to wrapper-bin, and wrote a shell script called "wrapper" to call it and to log any errors and record wrapper-bin's return code. this is the script: #! /bin/sh exec 2>/tmp/wrapper.out /usr/local/mailman/mail/wrapper-bin $* echo $? 1>&2 after sending mail to one of the test- addresses, this is the contents of /tmp/wrapper.out: 0 so, it would appear that there are no errors produced, and it is returning successfully! yet, nothing happens to the mail, so i can't successfully subscribe with confirmation, or send a message to the list, or send mail to test-admin, or anything; it all simply disappears into the ether... if anyone has any idea what might be up, or has further ideas for debugging, or if there is any further info i can provide, please let me know! (btw, i'd appreciate it if any replies to the list can be cc'd to me since i am on the digest version.) i should mention that my system has python 1.5.2 AND python 2.0 installed; the default python version (if called without a version number) is 2.0. this is the version that the wrapper binary knows about. thanks much. __ Peggy Wilkins mozart at lib.uchicago.edu Sr. Systems Administrator sysadmin at lib.uchicago.edu Digital Library Development Center The University of Chicago Library From chris at vanoosterhout.com Fri May 4 22:25:48 2001 From: chris at vanoosterhout.com (Christopher VanOosterhout) Date: Fri, 04 May 2001 16:25:48 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to Back Up Lists Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20010504162336.05decb80@192.168.0.7> After some review of the list archives I do not find an answer to what I think will be a pretty simple question. How do I make backups of my lists? What files are critical? I want to back up the email addresses that are no the list as well as configuration information related to a specific list. Is there a way to export this information ... to lets say a tab delimited file? Thanks for any help you can offer. Christopher From ashley at pcraft.com Fri May 4 22:51:40 2001 From: ashley at pcraft.com (Ashley M. Kirchner) Date: Fri, 04 May 2001 14:51:40 -0600 Subject: [Mailman-Users] nomail users Message-ID: <3AF3165C.3AFD366@pcraft.com> When Mailman sets a user's 'nomail' option, there is no way that user would know, except for realizing after the fact that they're no longer receiving mail. Is there any sort of mechanism (even third party) that can periodically probe those that have 'nomail' set? Maybe once every 48 hours? If successful, just send a note telling them their option has been set to 'nomail' and if they need it changed to get on the subscription page... Something. -- W | | I haven't lost my mind; it's backed up on tape somewhere. |____________________________________________________________________ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Ashley M. Kirchner . 303.442.6410 x130 SysAdmin / Websmith . 800.441.3873 x130 Photo Craft Laboratories, Inc. . eFax 248.671.0909 http://www.pcraft.com . 3550 Arapahoe Ave #6 .................. . . . . Boulder, CO 80303, USA From Paul.Ondercin at motorola.com Fri May 4 23:04:47 2001 From: Paul.Ondercin at motorola.com (Ondercin Paul-O10322) Date: Fri, 4 May 2001 14:04:47 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Delivery Problems Message-ID: Hello, all, I've gotten mailman working with some test lists on my Linux server, and all of my tests worked great. Then I created a real list and added ~130 subscribers to it, and now it looks like some(I haven't counted exactly what percentage) of the subscribers never get mailed, including the two test accounts I first put into the list. I used the newest source of mailman (As of three weeks ago), and am running Sendmail. Everything else seems to be working. It just seems like mainman doesn't want to deliver. I've already watched the maillog to see what is happening, and I don't see any delivery attempts for the mailboxes I'm watching for. Does anyone know of any problems like this? Perhaps with adding large lists of people in using the web interface? (I only did 5 at a time as a second test on a new list, and this problem is still happening) Thanks in advance! -Paul Ondercin From Paul.Ondercin at motorola.com Fri May 4 23:19:25 2001 From: Paul.Ondercin at motorola.com (Ondercin Paul-O10322) Date: Fri, 4 May 2001 14:19:25 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Delivery Problems Message-ID: All, I have come closer to figuring out my problem! Mailman is batching the mail with multiple recipients. One of them probably has a bad address, so until that address is resolved all of the mail waits. Is there a way to tell mailman to send a seperate email to each recipient? (Yes, I know this means more processor load). Thanks in advance! -Paul Ondercin > -----Original Message----- > From: Ondercin Paul-O10322 > Sent: Friday, May 04, 2001 2:05 PM > To: mailman-users at python.org > Subject: [Mailman-Users] Delivery Problems > > > Hello, all, > > I've gotten mailman working with some test lists on my > Linux server, > and all of my tests worked great. Then I created a real list and added > ~130 subscribers to it, and now it looks like some(I haven't counted > exactly what percentage) of the subscribers never get mailed, > including > the two test accounts I first put into the list. > > I used the newest source of mailman (As of three weeks ago), and am > running Sendmail. > > Everything else seems to be working. It just seems like mainman > doesn't want to deliver. I've already watched the maillog to > see what is > happening, and I don't see any delivery attempts for the mailboxes I'm > watching for. Does anyone know of any problems like this? Perhaps with > adding large lists of people in using the web interface? (I only did 5 > at a time as a second test on a new list, and this problem is still > happening) > > Thanks in advance! > -Paul Ondercin > > ------------------------------------------------------ > Mailman-Users maillist - Mailman-Users at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users > From dmick at utopia.West.Sun.COM Fri May 4 23:38:23 2001 From: dmick at utopia.West.Sun.COM (Dan Mick) Date: Fri, 4 May 2001 14:38:23 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Mailman-Users] nomail users Message-ID: <200105042138.OAA26143@utopia.West.Sun.COM> > When Mailman sets a user's 'nomail' option, there is no way that > user would know, except for realizing after the fact that they're no > longer receiving mail. Is there any sort of mechanism (even third > party) that can periodically probe those that have 'nomail' set? Maybe > once every 48 hours? If successful, just send a note telling them their > option has been set to 'nomail' and if they need it changed to get on > the subscription page... Something. Here's my answer, which I've posted several times: bin/withlist -r nomail | remind nomail.py: import sys import Mailman.mm_cfg def nomail(list): for member in list.members.keys(): try: if list.user_options[member] & Mailman.mm_cfg.DisableDelivery: print member except: print >> sys.stderr, "%s has no user_options" % member pass for member in list.digest_members.keys(): try: if list.user_options[member] & Mailman.mm_cfg.DisableDelivery: print member except: # normal for digest_members to have no options; means MIME digests pass sys.exit(0) remind (you'll need to customize the list name etc.) #!/bin/ksh for addr in "$@"; do echo "To: $addr" >/tmp/mail echo "Subject: scr mail for $addr is disabled" >>/tmp/mail cat >>/tmp/mail <<-EOM This is a reminder that your subscription to scr at socal-raves.org is currently disabled (still active, but you're not receiving mail). This may be because you wanted it to be disabled, or it may be because the mailing-list software automatically disabled your mail because it couldn't deliver mail to you for an extended period (usually due to a full mailbox refusing more mail). If you want your account to be re-enabled, please visit your personal subscription page at the web site and re-enable your mail. You can find that personal page's URL in your welcome message, or you can start by going to http://www.socal-raves.org/mailman/listinfo/scr and entering your email address $addr at the bottom, in the "scr Subscribers" section. This mail message was sent to $addr. EOM /usr/lib/sendmail -t -f listmaster at socal-raves.org > After some review of the list archives I do not find an answer to what I > think will be a pretty simple question. > > How do I make backups of my lists? What files are critical? Everything under "lists" should do most of the job. If you need archives too, then "archives". I'd probably also save "data". > Is there a way to export this information ... to lets say a tab delimited file? Various programs in bin/ will dump various parts of the info; go look at them, they have comments that explain their use. From Paul.Ondercin at motorola.com Fri May 4 23:49:00 2001 From: Paul.Ondercin at motorola.com (Ondercin Paul-O10322) Date: Fri, 4 May 2001 14:49:00 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Delivery Problems Message-ID: Wow, I'm the guy with the problem, the audience AND the guy with the answer! :> :> :> The answer is.... In your mailman/Mailman/mm_cfg.py file add these entries: SMTP_MAX_RCPTS=1 MAX_DELIVERY_THREADS=20 That will give you up to to delivery threads running at a time, probably not the real answer to my problem, but the Max Recipeints is the real answer! These are all documented in Defaults.py. You're welcome, Paul! -Paul :> > -----Original Message----- > From: Ondercin Paul-O10322 > Sent: Friday, May 04, 2001 2:19 PM > To: mailman-users at python.org > Subject: RE: [Mailman-Users] Delivery Problems > > > All, > > I have come closer to figuring out my problem! Mailman is batching > the mail with multiple recipients. One of them probably has a bad > address, so until that address is resolved all of the mail waits. > > Is there a way to tell mailman to send a seperate email to each > recipient? (Yes, I know this means more processor load). > > Thanks in advance! > -Paul Ondercin > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Ondercin Paul-O10322 > > Sent: Friday, May 04, 2001 2:05 PM > > To: mailman-users at python.org > > Subject: [Mailman-Users] Delivery Problems > > > > > > Hello, all, > > > > I've gotten mailman working with some test lists on my > > Linux server, > > and all of my tests worked great. Then I created a real > list and added > > ~130 subscribers to it, and now it looks like some(I haven't counted > > exactly what percentage) of the subscribers never get mailed, > > including > > the two test accounts I first put into the list. > > > > I used the newest source of mailman (As of three weeks > ago), and am > > running Sendmail. > > > > Everything else seems to be working. It just seems like mainman > > doesn't want to deliver. I've already watched the maillog to > > see what is > > happening, and I don't see any delivery attempts for the > mailboxes I'm > > watching for. Does anyone know of any problems like this? > Perhaps with > > adding large lists of people in using the web interface? (I > only did 5 > > at a time as a second test on a new list, and this problem is still > > happening) > > > > Thanks in advance! > > -Paul Ondercin > > > > ------------------------------------------------------ > > Mailman-Users maillist - Mailman-Users at python.org > > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users > > > > ------------------------------------------------------ > Mailman-Users maillist - Mailman-Users at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users > From claw at kanga.nu Sat May 5 05:04:27 2001 From: claw at kanga.nu (J C Lawrence) Date: Fri, 04 May 2001 20:04:27 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to Back Up Lists In-Reply-To: Message from Christopher VanOosterhout of "Fri, 04 May 2001 16:25:48 EDT." <5.0.2.1.2.20010504162336.05decb80@192.168.0.7> References: <5.0.2.1.2.20010504162336.05decb80@192.168.0.7> Message-ID: <19533.989031867@kanga.nu> On Fri, 04 May 2001 16:25:48 -0400 Christopher VanOosterhout wrote: > How do I make backups of my lists? What files are critical? ~mailman/lists//config.db ~mailman/Mailman/mm_cfg.py Any templates you've edited. -- J C Lawrence claw at kanga.nu ---------(*) http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/ --=| A man is as sane as he is dangerous to his environment |=-- From claw at kanga.nu Sat May 5 05:06:07 2001 From: claw at kanga.nu (J C Lawrence) Date: Fri, 04 May 2001 20:06:07 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Delivery Problems In-Reply-To: Message from "Ondercin Paul-O10322" of "Fri, 04 May 2001 14:19:25 PDT." References: Message-ID: <22649.989031967@kanga.nu> On Fri, 4 May 2001 14:19:25 -0700 Ondercin Paul-O wrote: > Is there a way to tell mailman to send a seperate email to each > recipient? (Yes, I know this means more processor load). MAX_RCPT_TO in mm_cfg.py -- J C Lawrence claw at kanga.nu ---------(*) http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/ --=| A man is as sane as he is dangerous to his environment |=-- From claw at kanga.nu Sat May 5 05:05:25 2001 From: claw at kanga.nu (J C Lawrence) Date: Fri, 04 May 2001 20:05:25 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] nomail users In-Reply-To: Message from "Ashley M. Kirchner" of "Fri, 04 May 2001 14:51:40 MDT." <3AF3165C.3AFD366@pcraft.com> References: <3AF3165C.3AFD366@pcraft.com> Message-ID: <21326.989031925@kanga.nu> On Fri, 04 May 2001 14:51:40 -0600 Ashley M Kirchner wrote: > When Mailman sets a user's 'nomail' option, there is no way that > user would know, except for realizing after the fact that they're > no longer receiving mail. Is there any sort of mechanism (even > third party) that can periodically probe those that have 'nomail' > set? Maybe once every 48 hours? If successful, just send a note > telling them their option has been set to 'nomail' and if they > need it changed to get on the subscription page... Something. This would cause problems for those who have deliberately set themselves no mail (eg those who use several mail accounts, to those going on vacation). -- J C Lawrence claw at kanga.nu ---------(*) http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/ --=| A man is as sane as he is dangerous to his environment |=-- From inte at goe.net Sat May 5 11:09:22 2001 From: inte at goe.net (Christopher Intemann) Date: Sat, 5 May 2001 11:09:22 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archive doe not work Message-ID: Hi, I just installed mailman 2.0.3 on my freebsd box, but the archive does not work. When I follow the link it says "the document contains no data". As the admin script works and I have set the right CGI-GID this cannot be the reason. When I have a look at the generated index.html page, its size is 0. It seems only to have been touched! Does anybody know what I will have to change? Many thanks in advance Bye Christopher From wildwayz at clara.co.uk Sat May 5 11:35:28 2001 From: wildwayz at clara.co.uk (James Kapherr) Date: Sat, 5 May 2001 10:35:28 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archive doe not work In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi, Have you actually posted anything to the list? James -----Original Message----- From: mailman-users-admin at python.org [mailto:mailman-users-admin at python.org]On Behalf Of Christopher Intemann Sent: 05 May 2001 10:09 To: mailman-users at python.org Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archive doe not work Hi, I just installed mailman 2.0.3 on my freebsd box, but the archive does not work. When I follow the link it says "the document contains no data". As the admin script works and I have set the right CGI-GID this cannot be the reason. When I have a look at the generated index.html page, its size is 0. It seems only to have been touched! Does anybody know what I will have to change? Many thanks in advance Bye Christopher ------------------------------------------------------ Mailman-Users maillist - Mailman-Users at python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users From inte at goe.net Sat May 5 12:04:05 2001 From: inte at goe.net (Christopher Intemann) Date: Sat, 5 May 2001 12:04:05 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archive doe not work In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi, yes, and in the txt file are the postings as well as in the 000000.html file, but I cannot see them via the web interface. I just graded up to a newer version, but the archive still does not seem to work:-( Follow Symlinks is allowed, so what could be wrong? Bye Christopher On Sat, 5 May 2001, James Kapherr wrote: > Hi, > > Have you actually posted anything to the list? > > James > > -----Original Message----- > From: mailman-users-admin at python.org > [mailto:mailman-users-admin at python.org]On Behalf Of Christopher Intemann > Sent: 05 May 2001 10:09 > To: mailman-users at python.org > Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archive doe not work > > > Hi, > I just installed mailman 2.0.3 on my freebsd box, but the archive does not > work. > When I follow the link it says "the document contains no data". > As the admin script works and I have set the right CGI-GID this cannot be > the reason. > When I have a look at the generated index.html page, its size is 0. > It seems only to have been touched! > Does anybody know what I will have to change? > Many thanks in advance > Bye > Christopher > > > > ------------------------------------------------------ > Mailman-Users maillist - Mailman-Users at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users > > > > ------------------------------------------------------ > Mailman-Users maillist - Mailman-Users at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users > From t at garbage.dk Sat May 5 20:40:29 2001 From: t at garbage.dk (Thomas von Hassel) Date: Sat, 5 May 2001 20:40:29 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Wierd errors in maillog Message-ID: Hi i got these wierd errors in sendmails log: f45IM6015850: ... Cannot mail directly to programs my aliases look like this: tollerlist at mail.list.toller-klub.dk "|/etc/smrsh/wrapper post tollerlist" tollerlist-admin at mail.list.toller-klub.dk "|/etc/smrsh/wrapper mailowner tollerlist" tollerlist-request at mail.list.toller-klub.dk "|/etc/smrsh/wrapper mailcmd tollerlist" tollerlist-owner at mail.toller-klub.dk tollerlist-admin at list.toller-klub.dk got any clues ? -- Thomas von Hassel Web4Business ApS Paghs All? 28 Tlf: 70 25 17 70 Fax: 70 25 17 80 Web: http://www.w4b.dk From t at garbage.dk Sat May 5 21:05:10 2001 From: t at garbage.dk (Thomas von Hassel) Date: Sat, 5 May 2001 21:05:10 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Virtual Hosts (was wierd errors in maillog Message-ID: Hey again. The reason it didn't work before was 'couse i tried to run the list as a virtualone. The aliases were modified for sendmails virtusertable but aperantly that didnt work. Is there anyone outthere who has a way to operate mailman with virtual hosts ? We want to use mailman for several domains, but obviusly we can only have one "news" and one "list" etc. etc. if we run it as it's setup standard. any ideas ppl ? /thomas -- Thomas von Hassel Web4Business ApS Paghs All? 28 Tlf: 70 25 17 70 Fax: 70 25 17 80 Web: http://www.w4b.dk From inte at goe.net Sat May 5 22:06:54 2001 From: inte at goe.net (Christopher Intemann) Date: Sat, 5 May 2001 22:06:54 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archive doe not work In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi again, I finally worked out what was the problem. Mailman 2.3 as well as 2.4 seems to be buggy in that point, or I probably misunderstood the config:-)) I disabled the mbox archive, because I only need the html archive, and the archive did not work at all. With archiving as well to mbox as to html all works fine for me:-) I do not know if this is a known bug, or something went wrong with my config, or compilation, but it happens as well on version 2.3 as on 2.4, OS is FreeBSD 4.3. But finally, as I said, all works fine for me:-)) Regards Christopher On Sat, 5 May 2001, Christopher Intemann wrote: > Hi, > yes, and in the txt file are the postings as well as in the 000000.html > file, but I cannot see them via the web interface. > I just graded up to a newer version, but the archive still does not seem > to work:-( > Follow Symlinks is allowed, so what could be wrong? > Bye > Christopher > On Sat, 5 May 2001, James Kapherr wrote: > > > Hi, > > > > Have you actually posted anything to the list? > > > > James > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: mailman-users-admin at python.org > > [mailto:mailman-users-admin at python.org]On Behalf Of Christopher Intemann > > Sent: 05 May 2001 10:09 > > To: mailman-users at python.org > > Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archive doe not work > > > > > > Hi, > > I just installed mailman 2.0.3 on my freebsd box, but the archive does not > > work. > > When I follow the link it says "the document contains no data". > > As the admin script works and I have set the right CGI-GID this cannot be > > the reason. > > When I have a look at the generated index.html page, its size is 0. > > It seems only to have been touched! > > Does anybody know what I will have to change? > > Many thanks in advance > > Bye > > Christopher > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------ > > Mailman-Users maillist - Mailman-Users at python.org > > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------ > > Mailman-Users maillist - Mailman-Users at python.org > > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------ > Mailman-Users maillist - Mailman-Users at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users > From cal at calevans.com Sun May 6 16:28:10 2001 From: cal at calevans.com (Cal Evans) Date: Sun, 6 May 2001 09:28:10 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Virtual Hosts (was wierd errors in maillog In-Reply-To: Message-ID: When I asked the question, someone suggested that they had compiled separate copies of mailman for each virtual domain. This works. It's how I'm now running. Before adopting this I did some research into the code. While I am not a Python programmer, it would seem to me that one step that could be taken is to make the program load a different mm_cfg.py for each domain. If the path/name of that file could be passed in as a parameter and mm_cfg.py be the default if nothing else is loaded then at least one of the problems would be solved. The other issue I ran into (and couldn't see an immediate way to solve) was the cron jobs. You would still need separate cron jobs for each domain. If you use a standard directory structure (I do) for ach of your domains, it might be possible to pass in a list of the domains and have the cron jobs run the program once for each domain in the list. Assuming you have the mm_cfg.py file for each domain in the same place for each domain..i.e. /home/mydomains/thisdomain.com/configfiles/mm_cfg.py /home/mydomains/tatdomain.com/configfiles/mm_cfg.py etc. Again, I'm not a Python programmer, but if someone wanted to make a patch to the relevant programs, I would be happy to share what I learned in my research. FWIW, Cal http://www.calevans.com -----Original Message----- From: mailman-users-admin at python.org [mailto:mailman-users-admin at python.org]On Behalf Of Thomas von Hassel Sent: Saturday, May 05, 2001 2:05 PM To: mailman-users at python.org Subject: [Mailman-Users] Virtual Hosts (was wierd errors in maillog Hey again. The reason it didn't work before was 'couse i tried to run the list as a virtualone. The aliases were modified for sendmails virtusertable but aperantly that didnt work. Is there anyone outthere who has a way to operate mailman with virtual hosts ? We want to use mailman for several domains, but obviusly we can only have one "news" and one "list" etc. etc. if we run it as it's setup standard. any ideas ppl ? /thomas -- Thomas von Hassel Web4Business ApS Paghs All? 28 Tlf: 70 25 17 70 Fax: 70 25 17 80 Web: http://www.w4b.dk ------------------------------------------------------ Mailman-Users maillist - Mailman-Users at python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users From morris at unc.edu Sun May 6 17:32:26 2001 From: morris at unc.edu (Joe Morris) Date: Sun, 6 May 2001 11:32:26 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time) Subject: [Mailman-Users] 2.0.5 broken on RH70 Message-ID: I was using MM2.0 and upgraded yesterday to prepare a new server. Mailman 2.0 was running fine before. Python is 1.5.2. During compilation, I got the following warnings repeatedly... ./cgi-wrapper.c:26:21: warning: nothing can be pasted after this token ./cgi-wrapper.c:31:24: warning: pasting would not give a valid preprocessing token I pressed on with the install and everything seemed to be OK (can create lists, modify configurations, etc.). I tried to join one of the new mailing lists, got the confirmation back and tried to reply to confirm. I never saw email again, and my subscription is still pending. So, I use the admin interface to check pending admin requests--boom!--and it ain't happy. Here is the output from the errors log. However, please note that I'm setting this up in multiple instances, so you will see the path is not the default. This is because I will eventually have many Mailmans config running, one for each state in the US. The number of lists I have are enormous that one Mailman instance cannot handle it due to performance problems. The following output is for a prefix of /home/mailman/root... May 06 10:41:34 2001 admin(10147): @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ admin(10147): [----- Mailman Version: 2.0.5 -----] admin(10147): [----- Traceback ------] admin(10147): Traceback (innermost last): admin(10147): File "/home/mailman/root/scripts/driver", line 96, in run_main admin(10147): main() admin(10147): File "/home/mailman/root/Mailman/Cgi/admindb.py", line 108, in m ain admin(10147): if len(cgidata.keys()): admin(10147): NameError: cgidata admin(10147): [----- Python Information -----] admin(10147): sys.version = 1.5.2 (#1, Aug 25 2000, 09:33:37) [GCC 2.96 2000 0731 (experimental)] admin(10147): sys.executable = /usr/bin/python admin(10147): sys.prefix = /usr admin(10147): sys.exec_prefix= /usr admin(10147): sys.path = /usr admin(10147): sys.platform = linux-i386 admin(10147): [----- Environment Variables -----] admin(10147): DOCUMENT_ROOT: /home/httpd/html admin(10147): SERVER_ADDR: 152.2.22.171 admin(10147): HTTP_ACCEPT_ENCODING: gzip, deflate admin(10147): SERVER_PORT: 80 admin(10147): PATH_TRANSLATED: /home/httpd/html/news admin(10147): REMOTE_ADDR: 24.25.11.186 admin(10147): HTTP_ACCEPT_LANGUAGE: en-us admin(10147): GATEWAY_INTERFACE: CGI/1.1 admin(10147): SERVER_NAME: awns.unc.edu admin(10147): HTTP_CONNECTION: Keep-Alive admin(10147): HTTP_USER_AGENT: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.01; Windows 98) admin(10147): HTTP_ACCEPT: image/gif, image/x-xbitmap, image/jpeg, image/pjpeg , application/vnd.ms-powerpoint, application/vnd.ms-excel, application/msword, * /* admin(10147): REQUEST_URI: /mailman/admindb/news admin(10147): QUERY_STRING: admin(10147): SCRIPT_FILENAME: /home/mailman/root/cgi-bin/admindb admin(10147): PATH_INFO: /news admin(10147): HTTP_HOST: awns.unc.edu admin(10147): REQUEST_METHOD: GET admin(10147): SERVER_SIGNATURE:
Apache/1.3.12 Server at awns.unc.edu Port 80
admin(10147): SCRIPT_NAME: /mailman/admindb admin(10147): SERVER_ADMIN: root at awns.unc.edu admin(10147): SERVER_SOFTWARE: Apache/1.3.12 (Unix) admin(10147): PYTHONPATH: /home/mailman/root admin(10147): HTTP_COOKIE: news:admin=280200000[deleted this portion] admin(10147): SERVER_PROTOCOL: HTTP/1.1 admin(10147): REMOTE_PORT: 18965 admin(10147): HTTP_REFERER: http://awns.unc.edu/mailman/admin/news Suggestions? _______________________________________________________ Joe Morris http://www.ibiblio.org/morris Web Systems Manager, ATN http://help.unc.edu UNC-Chapel Hill http://www.unc.edu From robert.krimmer at wu-wien.ac.at Sun May 6 18:35:38 2001 From: robert.krimmer at wu-wien.ac.at (Robert Krimmer) Date: Sun, 6 May 2001 18:35:38 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Number of Subscribers Message-ID: <03F7D66981015943AF80B06F8B03209E01F408@jana.oeh-wu.at> hi! I'm using Mailman 1.08b8 to send out a weekly newsletter. What my sysadmin couldn't tell me was, how to add the current number of users to each newsletter. Is there a variable that can be inserted to the text? thx, robert krimmer *********************************************************************** Robert Krimmer e-mail: robert.krimmer at wu-wien.ac.at Vice Chairman Austrian Student Union Vienna University for Economics and Business Administration Augasse 2-6, A-1090 Vienna, Austria Tel: +43 1 31336 4290 Fax: +43 1 31336 90 4290 Mobile: +43 664 2055990 http://www.oeh-wu.at, http://robert.krimmer.at *********************************************************************** From mrbill at mrbill.net Mon May 7 00:32:37 2001 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun, 6 May 2001 17:32:37 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Number of Subscribers In-Reply-To: <03F7D66981015943AF80B06F8B03209E01F408@jana.oeh-wu.at>; from robert.krimmer@wu-wien.ac.at on Sun, May 06, 2001 at 06:35:38PM +0200 References: <03F7D66981015943AF80B06F8B03209E01F408@jana.oeh-wu.at> Message-ID: <20010506173237.V11406@mrbill.net> On Sun, May 06, 2001 at 06:35:38PM +0200, Robert Krimmer wrote: > hi! > I'm using Mailman 1.08b8 to send out a weekly newsletter. What my sysadmin > couldn't tell me was, how to add the current number of users to each > newsletter. Is there a variable that can be inserted to the text? > thx, > robert krimmer ~mailman/bin/list_users |wc -l ? Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill at mrbill.net Austin, TX From pug at pug.net Mon May 7 03:14:26 2001 From: pug at pug.net (Pug Bainter) Date: Sun, 6 May 2001 20:14:26 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Reminders getting wrong Sender/Errors... Message-ID: <20010506201426.A12660@stardock.pug.net> Good Morning, I did a search on this but couldn't find anything current. I am using Mailman 2.0.5 (recent upgrade from 2.0.3). On the first, the password reminders were sent out with the wrong information. They apprently went out with the list information for our *first* mailing list created even if the user isn't on that list. This means that my wife, who was gracious enough to allow me to set her up as the first converted list, is now getting all the 5 day bounces for mailing lists that she doesn't control. How do I fix this? Ciao, -- Pug Bainter | AMD, Inc. System Engineer, MTS | Mail Stop 625 Pug.Bainter at amd.com | pug at pug.net | 5900 E. Ben White Blvd Phone: (512) 602-0364 | Fax: (512) 602-6970 | Austin, TX 78741 Note: The views may not reflect my employers, or even my own for that matter. From barry at digicool.com Mon May 7 03:44:55 2001 From: barry at digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw) Date: Sun, 6 May 2001 21:44:55 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: [Mailman-Developers] Mailman 2.0.5 patch References: <15090.57294.242909.931852@anthem.wooz.org> Message-ID: <15093.65047.483993.636622@anthem.wooz.org> >>>>> "BAW" == Barry A Warsaw writes: BAW> I've uploaded the Mailman 2.0.5 patch and tarball to BAW> SourceForge. Please check out The 2.0.5 tarball had a bug in the admindb.py. Thanks to Phil Barnett who helped discover this. The patch file did not have the bug. I've just uploaded a new 2.0.5 tarball, and will be sending out the announcements tomorrow morning. Cheers, -Barry From barry at digicool.com Mon May 7 03:52:29 2001 From: barry at digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw) Date: Sun, 6 May 2001 21:52:29 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] 2.0.5 broken on RH70 References: Message-ID: <15093.65501.640752.211284@anthem.wooz.org> >>>>> "JM" == Joe Morris writes: JM> So, I use the admin interface to check pending admin JM> requests--boom!--and it ain't happy. JM> Suggestions? Yes. A typo crept into the 2.0.5 tarball that I uploaded to SF on Friday. I've just uploaded a fixed tarball, so please download it again and just install it over your other version. The only file that's change is Mailman/Cgi/admindb.py so you could just copy that one out of the tarball if you like. Sorry about that, -Barry From louiza at home.com Mon May 7 04:34:00 2001 From: louiza at home.com (Louiza) Date: Sun, 6 May 2001 19:34:00 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help! My list digest users overwhelmed In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello, The digest users of my list have been overwhelmed with multiple posts (upwards to 100) of the same digest version today. I do not know how to solve this problem. Can anyone help me please? Regards, Louiza From mailman at vo.cnchost.com Mon May 7 07:15:11 2001 From: mailman at vo.cnchost.com (JC Dill) Date: Sun, 06 May 2001 22:15:11 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help! My list digest users overwhelmed In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010506221113.02c3fe40@pop3.vo.cnchost.com> On 07:34 PM 5/6/01, Louiza wrote: >Hello, > >The digest users of my list have been overwhelmed with multiple posts >(upwards to 100) of the same digest version today. I do not know how >to solve this problem. Can anyone help me please? Look at your MTA queue. This is usually a problem with your MTA (sendmail, qmail, etc.) having a message stuck in its outgoing queue and repeatedly sending it again every time it goes through the queue, rather than with your mailing list software. jc (posted and emailed) From claw at kanga.nu Mon May 7 07:48:40 2001 From: claw at kanga.nu (J C Lawrence) Date: Sun, 06 May 2001 22:48:40 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help! My list digest users overwhelmed In-Reply-To: Message from Louiza of "Sun, 06 May 2001 19:34:00 PDT." References: Message-ID: <9153.989214520@kanga.nu> On Sun, 6 May 2001 19:34:00 -0700 louiza wrote: > The digest users of my list have been overwhelmed with multiple > posts (upwards to 100) of the same digest version today. I do not > know how to solve this problem. Can anyone help me please? Examine the recieved headers of some of the dupes. The odds are high that it has nothing to do with your system, and that it has everything to do with broken software at their end(s). This usually happens with broken MTAs delivering to even more broken POP accounts and mishandling the error conditions surrounding "mailbox full" etc. -- J C Lawrence claw at kanga.nu ---------(*) http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/ The pressure to survive and rhetoric may make strange bedfellows From louiza at home.com Mon May 7 09:02:58 2001 From: louiza at home.com (Louiza) Date: Mon, 7 May 2001 00:02:58 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help! My list digest users overwhelmed In-Reply-To: <9153.989214520@kanga.nu> References: <9153.989214520@kanga.nu> Message-ID: At 10:48 PM -0700 5/6/01, J C Lawrence wrote: >Examine the recieved headers of some of the dupes. The odds are >high that it has nothing to do with your system, and that it has >everything to do with broken software at their end(s). This usually >happens with broken MTAs delivering to even more broken POP accounts >and mishandling the error conditions surrounding "mailbox full" etc. Thank you very much for your help. There is this showing up in the oddest places in one member's posts. It shows up next to her e-mail address in several posts inside the offending digest, and in individual posts in the body of the message. She has a Yahoo! addy. Since that appears to be the only anomaly I'm seeing, I tend to think her account is the culprit. The other thing: people who are getting the multiple copies (400+ for some of them!) have unsubscribed, but are still getting them. Does that make sense? Thank you, Louiza From Murat.Balkas at o2.com.tr Mon May 7 13:25:13 2001 From: Murat.Balkas at o2.com.tr (Murat Balkas) Date: Mon, 7 May 2001 14:25:13 +0300 Subject: [Mailman-Users] invite users Message-ID: <017201c0d6e8$62d16260$0c2ba8c0@maslak.o2.net.tr> Hi, How can I invite users to my lists? Thanks, Murat From mpm at norwottuck.com Mon May 7 14:25:40 2001 From: mpm at norwottuck.com (Michelle Murrain) Date: Mon, 7 May 2001 08:25:40 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] invite users In-Reply-To: <017201c0d6e8$62d16260$0c2ba8c0@maslak.o2.net.tr> References: <017201c0d6e8$62d16260$0c2ba8c0@maslak.o2.net.tr> Message-ID: <01050708254001.01389@chicago.murrain.net> On Monday 07 May 2001 07:25 am, Murat Balkas wrote: > Hi, > > How can I invite users to my lists? > > Thanks, > Murat Two ways - one is to mass subscribe them (in the Subscription management page of the mailman admin pages) and send them a welcome note. The other way is to send someone (or a list of someones) a message pointing them to the subscribe page of mailman, or giving them the method to subscribe by mail (all of this info you can find on the mailman web pages.) Michelle -- ------------ Michelle Murrain, Ph.D. President Norwottuck Technology Resources mpm at norwottuck.com http://www.norwottuck.com From javi at datagrama.net Mon May 7 14:34:03 2001 From: javi at datagrama.net (Javier Chicharro) Date: Mon, 07 May 2001 14:34:03 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman sends a post 7 hours later Message-ID: <3AF6963B.28495232@datagrama.net> Mailman works fine always, but yesterday a message posted at 5 pm was not sent until 0:30 h Sendmail log says that the message was received at 5pm and the first try to send by mailman was at 0:30h. I don't understand why mailman didn't send the message one minute later as always it does. Has somebody any idea about it? -- Javier Chicharro From barry at digicool.com Mon May 7 18:24:16 2001 From: barry at digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw) Date: Mon, 7 May 2001 12:24:16 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] ANNOUNCE Mailman 2.0.5 Message-ID: <15094.52272.753043.181192@anthem.wooz.org> Folks, I've just released Mailman 2.0.5 which fixes a problem with stale lock files that can occur under certain situations when the user hits the `Stop' button on their browser. These stale lock files can cause mailing lists to be inaccessible for long periods of time (until the stale lock file times out or is manually removed). As usual, I'm releasing this as both a complete tarball and as a patch against Mailman 2.0.4. You /must/ update your source to 2.0.4 before applying the 2.0.5 patch. Since the patch is small, I'm including it in this message. To apply, cd into your 2.0.5 source tree and apply it like so: % patch -p0 < mailman-2.0.4-2.0.5.txt Currently both http://mailman.sourceforge.net and http://www.list.org are updated, and I expect the gnu.org site to be updated soon as well. The release information on SF is at http://sourceforge.net/project/shownotes.php?release_id=31693 See also http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman http://www.list.org http://mailman.sourceforge.net My thanks to those of you who gave the 2.0.5 pre-release a try! Enjoy, -Barry Index: NEWS =================================================================== RCS file: /cvsroot/mailman/mailman/NEWS,v retrieving revision 1.25.2.5 retrieving revision 1.25.2.6 diff -u -r1.25.2.5 -r1.25.2.6 --- NEWS 2001/04/18 10:45:54 1.25.2.5 +++ NEWS 2001/05/03 21:06:56 1.25.2.6 @@ -4,6 +4,13 @@ Here is a history of user visible changes to Mailman. +2.0.5 (04-May-2001) + + Fix a lock stagnation problem that can result when the user hits + the `stop' button on their browser during a write operation that + can take a long time (e.g. hitting the membership management admin + page). + 2.0.4 (18-Apr-2001) Python 2.1 compatibility release. There were a few questionable Index: Mailman/Version.py =================================================================== RCS file: /cvsroot/mailman/mailman/Mailman/Version.py,v retrieving revision 1.20.2.4 retrieving revision 1.20.2.5 diff -u -r1.20.2.4 -r1.20.2.5 --- Mailman/Version.py 2001/04/18 04:43:29 1.20.2.4 +++ Mailman/Version.py 2001/05/03 20:58:19 1.20.2.5 @@ -15,7 +15,7 @@ # Foundation, Inc., 59 Temple Place - Suite 330, Boston, MA 02111-1307, USA. # Mailman version -VERSION = "2.0.4" +VERSION = "2.0.5" # And as a hex number in the manner of PY_VERSION_HEX ALPHA = 0xa @@ -27,7 +27,7 @@ MAJOR_REV = 2 MINOR_REV = 0 -MICRO_REV = 4 +MICRO_REV = 5 REL_LEVEL = FINAL # at most 15 beta releases! REL_SERIAL = 0 Index: Mailman/Cgi/admin.py =================================================================== RCS file: /cvsroot/mailman/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/admin.py,v retrieving revision 1.82.2.2 retrieving revision 1.82.2.3 diff -u -r1.82.2.2 -r1.82.2.3 --- Mailman/Cgi/admin.py 2001/01/03 16:47:47 1.82.2.2 +++ Mailman/Cgi/admin.py 2001/05/03 21:03:48 1.82.2.3 @@ -18,11 +18,13 @@ """ +import sys import os import cgi import string import types import rfc822 +import signal from Mailman import Utils from Mailman import MailList @@ -63,53 +65,86 @@ # get the list object listname = string.lower(parts[0]) try: - mlist = MailList.MailList(listname) + mlist = MailList.MailList(listname, lock=0) except Errors.MMListError, e: FormatAdminOverview('No such list %s' % listname) syslog('error', 'Someone tried to access the admin interface for a ' 'non-existent list: %s' % listname) return + + if len(parts) == 1: + category = 'general' + category_suffix = '' + else: + category = parts[1] + category_suffix = category + + # If the user is not authenticated, we're done. + cgidata = cgi.FieldStorage(keep_blank_values=1) try: - if len(parts) == 1: - category = 'general' - category_suffix = '' - else: - category = parts[1] - category_suffix = category - - # If the user is not authenticated, we're done. - cgidata = cgi.FieldStorage(keep_blank_values=1) - try: - Auth.authenticate(mlist, cgidata) - except Auth.NotLoggedInError, e: - Auth.loginpage(mlist, 'admin', e.message) - return - - # Is this a log-out request? - if category == 'logout': - print mlist.ZapCookie('admin') - Auth.loginpage(mlist, 'admin', frontpage=1) - return - - if category not in map(lambda x: x[0], CATEGORIES): - category = 'general' - - # is the request for variable details? - varhelp = None - if cgidata.has_key('VARHELP'): - varhelp = cgidata['VARHELP'].value - elif cgidata.has_key('request_login') and \ - os.environ.get('QUERY_STRING'): - # POST methods, even if their actions have a query string, don't - # get put into FieldStorage's keys :-( - qs = cgi.parse_qs(os.environ['QUERY_STRING']).get('VARHELP') - if qs and type(qs) == types.ListType: - varhelp = qs[0] - if varhelp: - FormatOptionHelp(doc, varhelp, mlist) - print doc.Format(bgcolor="#ffffff") - return + Auth.authenticate(mlist, cgidata) + except Auth.NotLoggedInError, e: + Auth.loginpage(mlist, 'admin', e.message) + return + + # Is this a log-out request? + if category == 'logout': + print mlist.ZapCookie('admin') + Auth.loginpage(mlist, 'admin', frontpage=1) + return + + if category not in map(lambda x: x[0], CATEGORIES): + category = 'general' + # is the request for variable details? + varhelp = None + if cgidata.has_key('VARHELP'): + varhelp = cgidata['VARHELP'].value + elif cgidata.has_key('request_login') and \ + os.environ.get('QUERY_STRING'): + # POST methods, even if their actions have a query string, don't + # get put into FieldStorage's keys :-( + qs = cgi.parse_qs(os.environ['QUERY_STRING']).get('VARHELP') + if qs and type(qs) == types.ListType: + varhelp = qs[0] + if varhelp: + FormatOptionHelp(doc, varhelp, mlist) + print doc.Format(bgcolor="#ffffff") + return + + # From this point on, the MailList object must be locked. However, we + # must release the lock no matter how we exit. try/finally isn't + # enough, because of this scenario: user hits the admin page which may + # take a long time to render; user gets bored and hits the browser's + # STOP button; browser shuts down socket; server tries to write to + # broken socket and gets a SIGPIPE. Under Apache 1.3/mod_cgi, Apache + # catches this SIGPIPE (I presume it is buffering output from the cgi + # script), then turns around and SIGTERMs the cgi process. Apache + # waits three seconds and then SIGKILLs the cgi process. We /must/ + # catch the SIGTERM and do the most reasonable thing we can in as + # short a time period as possible. If we get the SIGKILL we're + # screwed (because its uncatchable and we'll have no opportunity to + # clean up after ourselves). + # + # This signal handler catches the SIGTERM and unlocks the list. The + # effect of this is that the changes made to the MailList object will + # be aborted, which seems like the only sensible semantics. + # + # BAW: This may not be portable to other web servers or cgi execution + # models. + def sigterm_handler(signum, frame, mlist=mlist): + # Make sure the list gets unlocked... + mlist.Unlock() + # ...and ensure we exit, otherwise race conditions could cause us to + # enter MailList.Save() while we're in the unlocked state, and that + # could be bad! + sys.exit(0) + + mlist.Lock() + try: + # Install the emergency shutdown signal handler + signal.signal(signal.SIGTERM, sigterm_handler) + if cgidata.has_key('bounce_matching_headers'): pairs = mlist.parse_matching_header_opt() @@ -135,8 +170,12 @@ FormatConfiguration(doc, mlist, category, category_suffix, cgidata) print doc.Format(bgcolor="#ffffff") - finally: mlist.Save() + finally: + # Now be sure to unlock the list. It's okay if we get a signal here + # because essentially, the signal handler will do the same thing. And + # unlocking is unconditional, so it's not an error if we unlock while + # we're already unlocked. mlist.Unlock() Index: Mailman/Cgi/admindb.py =================================================================== RCS file: /cvsroot/mailman/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/admindb.py,v retrieving revision 1.36.2.1 retrieving revision 1.36.2.4 diff -u -r1.36.2.1 -r1.36.2.4 --- Mailman/Cgi/admindb.py 2001/03/03 06:02:01 1.36.2.1 +++ Mailman/Cgi/admindb.py 2001/05/04 15:54:23 1.36.2.4 @@ -16,10 +16,12 @@ """Produce and process the pending-approval items for a list.""" +import sys import os import string import types import cgi +import signal from errno import ENOENT from Mailman import mm_cfg @@ -62,7 +64,7 @@ return # now that we have the list name, create the list object try: - mlist = MailList.MailList(listname) + mlist = MailList.MailList(listname, lock=0) except Errors.MMListError, e: handle_no_list(doc, 'No such list %s

' % listname) syslog('error', 'No such list "%s": %s\n' % (listname, e)) @@ -71,14 +73,34 @@ # now we must authorize the user to view this page, and if they are, to # handle both the printing of the current outstanding requests, and the # selected actions + cgidata = cgi.FieldStorage() try: - cgidata = cgi.FieldStorage() - try: - Auth.authenticate(mlist, cgidata) - except Auth.NotLoggedInError, e: - Auth.loginpage(mlist, 'admindb', e.message) - return + Auth.authenticate(mlist, cgidata) + except Auth.NotLoggedInError, e: + Auth.loginpage(mlist, 'admindb', e.message) + return + + # We need a signal handler to catch the SIGTERM that can come from Apache + # when the user hits the browser's STOP button. See the comment in + # admin.py for details. + # + # BAW: Strictly speaking, the list should not need to be locked just to + # read the request database. However the request database asserts that + # the list is locked in order to load it and it's not worth complicating + # that logic. + def sigterm_handler(signum, frame, mlist=mlist): + # Make sure the list gets unlocked... + mlist.Unlock() + # ...and ensure we exit, otherwise race conditions could cause us to + # enter MailList.Save() while we're in the unlocked state, and that + # could be bad! + sys.exit(0) + mlist.Lock() + try: + # Install the emergency shutdown signal handler + signal.signal(signal.SIGTERM, sigterm_handler) + # If this is a form submission, then we'll process the requests and # print the results. otherwise (there are no keys in the form), we'll # print out the list of pending requests @@ -91,8 +113,8 @@ PrintRequests(mlist, doc) text = doc.Format(bgcolor="#ffffff") print text - finally: mlist.Save() + finally: mlist.Unlock() Index: Mailman/Cgi/handle_opts.py =================================================================== RCS file: /cvsroot/mailman/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/handle_opts.py,v retrieving revision 1.30 retrieving revision 1.30.2.2 diff -u -r1.30 -r1.30.2.2 --- Mailman/Cgi/handle_opts.py 2000/11/09 16:19:03 1.30 +++ Mailman/Cgi/handle_opts.py 2001/05/03 21:05:06 1.30.2.2 @@ -1,4 +1,4 @@ -# Copyright (C) 1998,1999,2000 by the Free Software Foundation, Inc. +# Copyright (C) 1998,1999,2000,2001 by the Free Software Foundation, Inc. # # This program is free software; you can redistribute it and/or # modify it under the terms of the GNU General Public License @@ -20,6 +20,7 @@ import os import string import cgi +import signal from Mailman import mm_cfg from Mailman import Utils @@ -61,7 +62,7 @@ user = parts[1] try: - mlist = MailList.MailList(listname) + mlist = MailList.MailList(listname, lock=0) except Errors.MMListError, e: doc.AddItem(Header(2, "Error")) doc.AddItem(Bold('No such list %s' % listname)) @@ -69,10 +70,30 @@ syslog('error', 'No such list "%s": %s\n' % (listname, e)) return + # We need a signal handler to catch the SIGTERM that can come from Apache + # when the user hits the browser's STOP button. See the comment in + # admin.py for details. + # + # BAW: Strictly speaking, the list should not need to be locked just to + # read the request database. However the request database asserts that + # the list is locked in order to load it and it's not worth complicating + # that logic. + def sigterm_handler(signum, frame, mlist=mlist): + # Make sure the list gets unlocked... + mlist.Unlock() + # ...and ensure we exit, otherwise race conditions could cause us to + # enter MailList.Save() while we're in the unlocked state, and that + # could be bad! + sys.exit(0) + + mlist.Lock() try: + # Install the emergency shutdown signal handler + signal.signal(signal.SIGTERM, sigterm_handler) + process_form(mlist, user, doc) - finally: mlist.Save() + finally: mlist.Unlock() Index: Mailman/Cgi/subscribe.py =================================================================== RCS file: /cvsroot/mailman/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/subscribe.py,v retrieving revision 1.29 retrieving revision 1.29.2.1 diff -u -r1.29 -r1.29.2.1 --- Mailman/Cgi/subscribe.py 2000/09/29 00:05:05 1.29 +++ Mailman/Cgi/subscribe.py 2001/05/03 21:05:43 1.29.2.1 @@ -1,4 +1,4 @@ -# Copyright (C) 1998,1999,2000 by the Free Software Foundation, Inc. +# Copyright (C) 1998,1999,2000,2001 by the Free Software Foundation, Inc. # # This program is free software; you can redistribute it and/or # modify it under the terms of the GNU General Public License @@ -20,6 +20,7 @@ import os import string import cgi +import signal from Mailman import Utils from Mailman import MailList @@ -41,18 +42,38 @@ listname = string.lower(parts[0]) try: - mlist = MailList.MailList(listname) - mlist.IsListInitialized() + mlist = MailList.MailList(listname, lock=0) except Errors.MMListError, e: doc.AddItem(Header(2, "Error")) doc.AddItem(Bold('No such list %s' % listname)) print doc.Format(bgcolor="#ffffff") syslog('error', 'No such list "%s": %s\n' % (listname, e)) return + + # We need a signal handler to catch the SIGTERM that can come from Apache + # when the user hits the browser's STOP button. See the comment in + # admin.py for details. + # + # BAW: Strictly speaking, the list should not need to be locked just to + # read the request database. However the request database asserts that + # the list is locked in order to load it and it's not worth complicating + # that logic. + def sigterm_handler(signum, frame, mlist=mlist): + # Make sure the list gets unlocked... + mlist.Unlock() + # ...and ensure we exit, otherwise race conditions could cause us to + # enter MailList.Save() while we're in the unlocked state, and that + # could be bad! + sys.exit(0) + + mlist.Lock() try: + # Install the emergency shutdown signal handler + signal.signal(signal.SIGTERM, sigterm_handler) + process_form(mlist, doc) - finally: mlist.Save() + finally: mlist.Unlock() Index: admin/www/download.ht =================================================================== RCS file: /cvsroot/mailman/mailman/admin/www/download.ht,v retrieving revision 1.5.2.5 retrieving revision 1.5.2.6 diff -u -r1.5.2.5 -r1.5.2.6 --- admin/www/download.ht 2001/04/18 10:44:14 1.5.2.5 +++ admin/www/download.ht 2001/05/03 21:09:36 1.5.2.6 @@ -65,9 +65,9 @@

Downloading

Version -(2.0.4, +(2.0.5, released on -Apr 18 2001) +May 4 2001) is the current GNU release. It is available from the following mirror sites:

    Index: admin/www/download.html =================================================================== RCS file: /cvsroot/mailman/mailman/admin/www/download.html,v retrieving revision 1.6.2.7 retrieving revision 1.6.2.8 diff -u -r1.6.2.7 -r1.6.2.8 --- admin/www/download.html 2001/04/18 10:44:14 1.6.2.7 +++ admin/www/download.html 2001/05/03 21:09:36 1.6.2.8 @@ -1,6 +1,6 @@ - + 2.0.4, +(2.0.5, released on -Apr 18 2001) +May 4 2001) is the current GNU release. It is available from the following mirror sites:
      From claw at kanga.nu Mon May 7 19:19:26 2001 From: claw at kanga.nu (J C Lawrence) Date: Mon, 07 May 2001 10:19:26 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help! My list digest users overwhelmed In-Reply-To: Message from Louiza of "Mon, 07 May 2001 00:02:58 PDT." References: <9153.989214520@kanga.nu> Message-ID: <27987.989255966@kanga.nu> On Mon, 7 May 2001 00:02:58 -0700 louiza wrote: > At 10:48 PM -0700 5/6/01, J C Lawrence wrote: >> Examine the recieved headers of some of the dupes. The odds are >> high that it has nothing to do with your system, and that it has >> everything to do with broken software at their end(s). This >> usually happens with broken MTAs delivering to even more broken >> POP accounts and mishandling the error conditions surrounding >> "mailbox full" etc. > Thank you very much for your help. > There is this showing up in the oddest > places in one member's posts. It shows up next to her e-mail > address in several posts inside the offending digest, and in > individual posts in the body of the message. She has a Yahoo! > addy. Since that appears to be the only anomaly I'm seeing, I tend > to think her account is the culprit. Highly unlikely. Look at the time stamps int he received headers. > The other thing: people who are getting the multiple copies (400+ > for some of them!) have unsubscribed, but are still getting > them. Does that make sense? This almost guarantees that the problem is not in your system, but in the handoff between a remote MTA nd their target mail system. Check your local MTA logs to verify. -- J C Lawrence claw at kanga.nu ---------(*) http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/ The pressure to survive and rhetoric may make strange bedfellows From tom.moore at landslidedesign.com Mon May 7 23:09:01 2001 From: tom.moore at landslidedesign.com (Tom Moore) Date: Mon, 7 May 2001 17:09:01 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Any luck installing on Mac OS X? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: OK, I'm at a dead stop. Has anyone had any luck installing Mailman on Mac OS X 10.0? If so, I'd be deeply appreciative if you could pass along the details -- what Python you're using, where you got it, etc. Many thanks! Tom Moore -- Tom Moore President, Landslide Design tom.moore at landslidedesign.com 11 Forest Ave., Rockville, MD 20850 phone: 301.762.0627 fax: 301.762.5156 From tib at tigerknight.org Tue May 8 03:41:26 2001 From: tib at tigerknight.org (Tib) Date: Mon, 7 May 2001 18:41:26 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem with mailinglist/archives. Message-ID: I'm running a mailing list with about 150 users. It's fairly low traffic. It was transfered from one machine to another, and I imported the .mbox file from the old server, and all appeared to be well. I've noticed now though that while messages do get through and distributed - the archives are no longer being updated for that list. I've blown it away and recreated it several times, but still it hasn't fixed it. Suggestions? running the check_perms script found no problems, but I saw that a lot of files (not just for this list) were owned by root, so I fixed those with no noticable impact on anything. Tib From marc_news at valinux.com Fri May 4 05:22:20 2001 From: marc_news at valinux.com (Marc MERLIN) Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 20:22:20 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Loooooonnnnnnnngggggg archive conversion... In-Reply-To: <20010503203522.A1144@stardock.pug.net>; from pug@pug.net on Thu, May 03, 2001 at 08:35:22PM -0500 References: <20010503204417.B1144@stardock.pug.net> <20010503203522.A1144@stardock.pug.net> Message-ID: <20010503202220.D8043@magic.merlins.org> On Thu, May 03, 2001 at 08:35:22PM -0500, Pug Bainter wrote: > This one has been running for 10 hours so far. It is doing things > [mostly mremaps()], but it takes way too long. This seemed to be the > case that once it got to a certain point it had trouble computing the > different threads. Right now it is doing the pipermail.pck and has been > for just over an hour. > > How long would one expect a 116M mbox to convert? Are there thoughts > on improving performance of this conversion? Pipermail is very inefficient and very memory hungry (I've had it run out or Ram on a 512MB machine). The only real solution is to suffer through it, or not to use it and use monharc instead. On Thu, May 03, 2001 at 08:44:17PM -0500, Pug Bainter wrote: > 1) Is there a way to extract only the members that are not set to nomail? Another alternative to the script that was given to you is: chef:/var/local/mailman/bin# ./dumpdb ../lists/test/config.db (...) 'user_options': { 'jneal at valinux.com': 8, 'lfriedman at valinux.com': 8, 'merlin at valinux.com': 24, 'rodmur at valinux.com': 8}, Each option is one bit. > 2) Is there a way to link the archives of the hidden list with the > published list? While I have changed the symlink in archives/public, > I'm not sure if that is the correct way nor if it will last. That should actually be it. It will work until someone tries to switch the archives to private and back to public, which will reset the symlink. Of course, you have two symlinks: list and list.mbox Marc -- Microsoft is to operating systems & security .... .... what McDonalds is to gourmet cooking Home page: http://marc.merlins.org/ | Finger marc_f at merlins.org for PGP key From marc_news at valinux.com Fri May 4 16:25:27 2001 From: marc_news at valinux.com (Marc MERLIN) Date: Fri, 4 May 2001 07:25:27 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] My old mailing list is not working after installation on a new distro. In-Reply-To: ; from daniel@yipyip.com on Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 05:09:45PM -0400 References: Message-ID: <20010504072527.F2799@magic.merlins.org> On Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 05:09:45PM -0400, Daniel Einspanjer wrote: > Fortunately, it is no longer the standard hard link problem. :) ?I read > the FAQ and the README.LINUX and ran the secure_linux fix. ?One thing that > took me a bit to figure out is that you have to run that script with a > -f. ?If you don't, it outputs some information, but it doesn't actually > output a usage line telling you it didn't run properly. ?When it didn't > fix my problem, I went looking in the file and discovered the -f > requirement. :) Didn't you get this? ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- chef:/var/local/mailman/bin$ ./securelinux_fix.py Fixes for running Mailman under the `secure-linux' patch. (...) If you have to run check_perms -f, make sure to also run securelinux_fix.py -f, which applies the necessary permission fixes. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Is it the word wrap in the wrong place that caused you to miss it? As for move_list hanging, yes, since you used mailman without the securelinux_fix a few times, it failed to completely create symlinks and ended up failing in the middle, leaving a half made link behind it. Marc -- Microsoft is to operating systems & security .... .... what McDonalds is to gourmet cooking Home page: http://marc.merlins.org/ | Finger marc_f at merlins.org for PGP key From troyh at fc.hp.com Fri May 4 21:15:15 2001 From: troyh at fc.hp.com (Troy Heber) Date: Fri, 4 May 2001 13:15:15 -0600 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help Message-ID: <01050413151517.01423@ttroy3> I need a little help with the mailman program. I have it up and running and almost everything is working fine except I don't see my lists when I access the site with the fully qualified name, for example: http://mysite/mailman/listinfo/ --- Everything is fine http://mysite.mydomain.com/listinfo/ -- The page comes up but there are no lists! None of the other pages seem to be affected by this, the archvie works fine with and without the qualified name. My second question is there a way to put a search engine on the archive? Thanks for the help, Troy -- ___________________________________________________ _/ Troy Heber _/ Technical Consulting Engineer _/_/_/_/_/_/ Hewlett-Packard Company _/ _/_/ _/ _/ _/_/_/_/ Email: troyh at fc.hp.com _/ Phone: 970.898.3240 _/ i n v e n t ___________________________________________________ From spades at galaxynet.org Fri May 4 21:52:55 2001 From: spades at galaxynet.org (Spades) Date: Sat, 05 May 2001 03:52:55 +0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: remove this? Message-ID: <3.0.32.20010505035254.0152a1d4@smtp.magix.com.sg> How should I remove these on each post? makes my message long. X-Ack: no X-BeenThere: X-Mailman-Version: 2.0 Sender: Errors-To: X-BeenThere: List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: List-Archive: From Paul.Ondercin at motorola.com Fri May 4 22:41:03 2001 From: Paul.Ondercin at motorola.com (Ondercin Paul-O10322) Date: Fri, 4 May 2001 13:41:03 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Delivery Problems Message-ID: Hello, all, I've gotten mailman working with some test lists on my Linux server, and all of my tests worked great. Then I created a real list and added ~130 subscribers to it, and now it looks like some(I haven't counted exactly what percentage) of the subscribers never get mailed, including the two test accounts I first put into the list. I used the newest source of mailman (As of three weeks ago), and am running Sendmail. Everything else seems to be working. It just seems like mainman doesn't want to deliver. I've already watched the maillog to see what is happening, and I don't see any delivery attempts for the mailboxes I'm watching for. Does anyone know of any problems like this? Perhaps with adding large lists of people in using the web interface? (I only did 5 at a time as a second test on a new list, and this problem is still happening) Thanks in advance! -Paul Ondercin From marc_news at valinux.com Fri May 4 23:00:38 2001 From: marc_news at valinux.com (Marc MERLIN) Date: Fri, 4 May 2001 14:00:38 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to Back Up Lists In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.20010504162336.05decb80@192.168.0.7>; from chris@vanoosterhout.com on Fri, May 04, 2001 at 04:25:48PM -0400 References: <5.0.2.1.2.20010504162336.05decb80@192.168.0.7> Message-ID: <20010504140038.D21233@magic.merlins.org> On Fri, May 04, 2001 at 04:25:48PM -0400, Christopher VanOosterhout wrote: > > After some review of the list archives I do not find an answer to what I > think will be a pretty simple question. > > How do I make backups of my lists? What files are critical? > > I want to back up the email addresses that are no the list as well as > configuration information related to a specific list. I use this: chef:/var/local/mailman/bin/scripts# cat listlists #!/bin/bash cd ~mailman/lists/ for i in * do echo "Subscribers of list $i" echo "--------------------------------------------------------------------------------" ~mailman/bin/list_members $i | sort echo echo echo done chef:/var/local/mailman/bin/scripts# cat dumplistconfigs #!/bin/bash if [ $# -ne 1 ]; then echo "$0 destdir" exit fi chown mailman $1 cd ~mailman/lists/ for i in * do echo "Dumping list $i in $1/$i" ~mailman/bin/config_list -o $1/$i $i done chef:/var/local/mailman/bin/scripts# cat savelistinfo #!/bin/bash DATE=`date +%Y%m%d` ~mailman/bin/scripts/listlists > ~mailman/backup/listusers.$DATE ln -snf ~mailman/backup/listusers.$DATE ~mailman/backup/listusers.current mkdir ~mailman/backup/dump.$DATE ln -snf ~mailman/backup/dump.$DATE ~mailman/backup/dump.current ~mailman/bin/scripts/dumplistconfigs ~mailman/backup/dump.$DATE >/dev/null It should be close enough to what you want to do. Note that it doesn't save the subscribers' passwords or list config options (I wrote the above before dumpdb existed) Oo answer your question BTW, most of the list configs are stored in ~mailman/lsits/listname/config.db Marc -- Microsoft is to operating systems & security .... .... what McDonalds is to gourmet cooking Home page: http://marc.merlins.org/ | Finger marc_f at merlins.org for PGP key From fil at rezo.net Fri May 4 23:44:23 2001 From: fil at rezo.net (Fil) Date: Fri, 4 May 2001 23:44:23 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to Back Up Lists In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.20010504162336.05decb80@192.168.0.7>; from chris@vanoosterhout.com on Fri, May 04, 2001 at 04:25:48PM -0400 References: <5.0.2.1.2.20010504162336.05decb80@192.168.0.7> Message-ID: <20010504234423.A17113@orwell.bok.net> @ Christopher VanOosterhout (chris at vanoosterhout.com) : > How do I make backups of my lists? What files are critical? Here's what I use as a daily cron job. #!/bin/sh #################### mailman_save_lists.sh ##################### # v0.13 2000-10-20 18:30 # # this script saves a copy of mailman lists and config files # call this script regularly from the 'mailman' user # e.g. daily from crontab # 01 08 * * * /path/to/mailman_save_lists.sh # # we do save lists each time in compressed form: either they # are big and we can imagine they change each time, or they # are very small and we don't care # # comments to: # # please configure below: where lists are to be found, # and where states are to be saved (must be 'mailman'-writable) ######## lists=/var/lib/mailman/lists/ state=/var/state/mailman/ ######## cd $lists || exit 1 umask 026 # make files readable to mailman group only for i in `ls` ; do echo echo ================== echo $i k=$state$i mkdir -p $k || exit 1 j=`date +%Y-%m-%d` /usr/lib/mailman/bin/config_list -o $k/config-$i.new $i if [ -s $k/config-$i ]; then diff -d -I "^## captured on" \ $k/config-$i $k/config-$i.new > /tmp/diffconfig.$$ else cp $k/config-$i.new /tmp/diffconfig.$$ fi mv $k/config-$i.new $k/config-$i if [ -s /tmp/diffconfig.$$ ]; then echo "config modif ------------------------------" cat /tmp/diffconfig.$$ echo "-------------------------------------------" cp $k/config-$i $k/config-$i-$j gzip -qf $k/config-$i-$j fi rm /tmp/diffconfig.$$ /usr/lib/mailman/bin/list_members $i | sort > $k/$i-new printf "%10s members\n" `cat $k/$i-new | wc -l` if [ -s $k/$i ]; then diff -d $k/$i $k/$i-new > /tmp/difflist.$$ if [ -s /tmp/difflist.$$ ]; then grep "^>" /tmp/difflist.$$ > /tmp/difflistplus.$$ grep "^<" /tmp/difflist.$$ > /tmp/difflistminus.$$ if [ -s /tmp/difflistplus.$$ ]; then printf " + %7s\n" `cat /tmp/difflistplus.$$ | wc -l` fi if [ -s /tmp/difflistminus.$$ ]; then printf " - %7s\n" `cat /tmp/difflistminus.$$ | wc -l` fi cat /tmp/difflistplus.$$ /tmp/difflistminus.$$ rm /tmp/difflistplus.$$ /tmp/difflistminus.$$ fi rm /tmp/difflist.$$ else echo "new list !" cat $k/$i-new fi mv $k/$i-new $k/$i cp $k/$i $k/$i-$j gzip -qf $k/$i-$j # suppress last month's files # with two weeks security delay n=`date +%Y-%m --date "-1 month -2 week"` if [ -e $k/$i-$n-01.gz ]; then mv $k/$i-$n-01.gz $k/$i-$n.gz rm -f $k/$i-$n-??.gz fi done # END SCRIPT -- Fil From tvh at w4b.dk Sat May 5 20:36:01 2001 From: tvh at w4b.dk (Thomas von Hassel) Date: Sat, 5 May 2001 20:36:01 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Wierd errors in maillog Message-ID: Hi i got these wierd errors in sendmails log: f45IM6015850: ... Cannot mail directly to programs my aliases look like this: tollerlist at mail.list.toller-klub.dk "|/etc/smrsh/wrapper post tollerlist" tollerlist-admin at mail.list.toller-klub.dk "|/etc/smrsh/wrapper mailowner tollerlist" tollerlist-request at mail.list.toller-klub.dk "|/etc/smrsh/wrapper mailcmd tollerlist" tollerlist-owner at mail.toller-klub.dk tollerlist-admin at list.toller-klub.dk got any clues ? -- Thomas von Hassel Web4Business ApS Paghs All? 28 Tlf: 70 25 17 70 Fax: 70 25 17 80 Web: http://www.w4b.dk From tvh at w4b.dk Sat May 5 21:04:50 2001 From: tvh at w4b.dk (Thomas von Hassel) Date: Sat, 5 May 2001 21:04:50 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Virtual Hosts (was wierd errors in maillog Message-ID: Hey again. The reason it didn't work before was 'couse i tried to run the list as a virtualone. The aliases were modified for sendmails virtusertable but aperantly that didnt work. Is there anyone outthere who has a way to operate mailman with virtual hosts ? We want to use mailman for several domains, but obviusly we can only have one "news" and one "list" etc. etc. if we run it as it's setup standard. any ideas ppl ? /thomas -- Thomas von Hassel Web4Business ApS Paghs All? 28 Tlf: 70 25 17 70 Fax: 70 25 17 80 Web: http://www.w4b.dk From b_thomas at telusplanet.net Sun May 6 17:42:20 2001 From: b_thomas at telusplanet.net (Bruce Thomas) Date: Sun, 6 May 2001 09:42:20 -0600 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Customization Message-ID: <000b01c0d643$234a5200$0100a8c0@rabit.telusplanet.net> Hello, I am wondering if there is a method to automatically strip attachments from messages received by the list prior to sending the message out to the list members? Basically, I have told members not to send attachments to the list but sometimes that happens. I want to prevent the attachments from getting sent out as the ISP charges on amount of data sent/received. Thanks. Bruce From michael at deadplanet.com Mon May 7 01:05:03 2001 From: michael at deadplanet.com (Michael W) Date: Sun, 06 May 2001 16:05:03 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] problems with mailman and config.db Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010506160050.009f9a10@mail.deadplanet.com> I see this in my mailman error log: May 06 16:00:02 2001 qrunner(820): Traceback (innermost last): May 06 16:00:02 2001 qrunner(820): File "/home/mailman/cron/qrunner", line 283, in ? May 06 16:00:02 2001 qrunner(820): kids = main(lock) May 06 16:00:02 2001 qrunner(820): File "/home/mailman/cron/qrunner", line 239, in main May 06 16:00:02 2001 qrunner(820): mlist = open_list(listname) May 06 16:00:02 2001 qrunner(820): File "/home/mailman/cron/qrunner", line 174, in open_list May 06 16:00:02 2001 qrunner(820): mlist = MailList.MailList(listname, lock=0) May 06 16:00:02 2001 qrunner(820): File "/home/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 79, in __init__ May 06 16:00:02 2001 qrunner(820): self.Load() May 06 16:00:02 2001 qrunner(820): File "/home/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 891, in Load May 06 16:00:02 2001 qrunner(820): dict, e = self.__load(dbfile) May 06 16:00:02 2001 qrunner(820): File "/home/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 868, in __load May 06 16:00:02 2001 qrunner(820): fp = open(dbfile) May 06 16:00:02 2001 qrunner(820): IOError : [Errno 13] Permission denied: '/home/mailman/lists/re/config.db' I have run check_perms and everything is good. I configured the app like this: ./configure --with-mail-gid=daemon Sendmail runs as gid daemon on my system. I've noticed that several files are owned by daemon.mailman I've tried every combination of owner.group that I could think of to fix this problem, and even tried changing permissions (777) on the config.db* files, to no avail. A hint as to what I'm doing wrong? I followed the Install instructions on the list.org site, 3 times, to be sure I wasn't skipping a step along the way. Some parts of the list work just fine, as in when I subscribe, I get the welcome message, when I create a list, the list admin receives their welcome message, but posting to the list generates the above error. Thanks in a advance for any help on this issue. From paintings at anastasia.com Mon May 7 02:55:09 2001 From: paintings at anastasia.com (Anastasia Czerniakiewicz) Date: Sun, 6 May 2001 17:55:09 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] bounce options Message-ID: Sirs, I am the list manager for paintings-by-anastasia at anastasia.com, set up at www.pair.com I am having trouble understanding the "bounce" options. In particular, I have set up a very small list with "bogus" names to send practice mail. However, I keep getting the "mailer deamon" back, and no bogus subscriber is marked (as no-mail or as unsubscribe). Can you give me some pointers about what I may be doing incorrectly? Thank you very much for your attention Anastasia Anastasia Czerniakiewicz (503)-292-1476 paintings at anastasia.com Visit the paintings at www.anastasia.com From midnight at the-oasis.net Mon May 7 06:20:36 2001 From: midnight at the-oasis.net (Phil Barnett) Date: Mon, 7 May 2001 00:20:36 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: [Mailman-Developers] Mailman 2.0.5 patch In-Reply-To: <15093.65047.483993.636622@anthem.wooz.org> Message-ID: <3AF5EA54.19456.76935707@localhost> On 6 May 2001, at 21:44, Barry A. Warsaw wrote: > >>>>> "BAW" == Barry A Warsaw writes: > > BAW> I've uploaded the Mailman 2.0.5 patch and tarball to > BAW> SourceForge. Please check out > > The 2.0.5 tarball had a bug in the admindb.py. Thanks to Phil Barnett > who helped discover this. The patch file did not have the bug. > > I've just uploaded a new 2.0.5 tarball, and will be sending out the > announcements tomorrow morning. Confiming: The new tarball works great. Thanks. -- Phil Barnett mailto:midnight at the-oasis.net WWW http://www.the-oasis.net/ FTP Site ftp://ftp.the-oasis.net From manojit at megaeservices.com Mon May 7 11:02:12 2001 From: manojit at megaeservices.com (Manojit Saha) Date: Mon, 7 May 2001 14:32:12 +0530 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help me Message-ID: <008901c0d6d4$67e14040$5400a8c0@as> Hi, I've installed mailman according to the instructions given, but when I replied a mail as confirmation of subscription, the following message came in my mail ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors ----- "|/home/mailman/mail/wrapper mailcmd test" (expanded from: ) ----- Transcript of session follows ----- sh: wrapper not available for sendmail programs 554 "|/home/mailman/mail/wrapper mailcmd test"... Service unavailable When I ran the wrapper program as: ./wrapper mailcmd test the following message came Failure to exec script. WANTED gid 12, GOT gid 605. (Reconfigure to take 605?) How to get wrapper working? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20010507/d897e9a8/attachment.htm From marco at tols.org Mon May 7 11:35:32 2001 From: marco at tols.org (Marco van Tol) Date: Mon, 7 May 2001 11:35:32 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Maybe this is a FAQ, I'm not sure Message-ID: <20010507113532.D5262@tols.org> Hi, In the past I have tried to run a maillist using MajorDomo, but couldn't get it to prevent external people from mailing to lists by telnetting to port 25 of the mail server claiming to be anybody that is inside the list. Currently I am running a naked alias file for my mailling lists, as the difference became extremely small, while the major domo software was quiet something. To be honest with you, I am not sure how to go about preventing what I explained above from happening, as it does not make complete sence to start blocking IP addresses from connecting to my smtp port. Did the developers from mailman figure anything out to prevent the explained above from happening? (Non members telnetting to port 25 claiming to be a member, and sending e-mails that way) Thanks in advance, Marco van Tol -- Marco van Tol [mailto:marco at tols.org] [http://www.tols.org] [Sir Stafford Cripps] has all the virtues I dislike and none of the vices I admire. -- Winston Churchill From jakes at leet.org Mon May 7 14:04:03 2001 From: jakes at leet.org (David Jacobson) Date: Mon, 7 May 2001 14:04:03 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman password problem Message-ID: <20010507140403.E22542@leet.org> Hi, I've setup mailman after hours of work (modifying etc). Now I need it so I can subscribe clients _without_ a password, when I click on the mass subscribe and put a few people in then I try and unsubscribe it requires a password, now the password is my admin password to unsubscribe users! Which is bad.. A) I can't give them admin pass to unsubscribe B) I need them to be able to unsubscribe without password, please this is pretty urgent if someone could mail me directly at jakes at leet.org or davidj at ensquared.com ASAP it would be greatly appreciated. P.S. one more thing, is it easy to remove those python/mailman logos etc at the bottom? -- David Jacobson Linux Administrator ENSQUARED Tel: +27 11 788 8445 Fax: +27 11 405 6424 Cell: +27 83 235 0760 Visit us @ : www.ensquared.com From mkersten at parc.xerox.com Tue May 8 03:28:10 2001 From: mkersten at parc.xerox.com (Kersten, Mik ) Date: Mon, 7 May 2001 18:28:10 PDT Subject: [Mailman-Users] duplicate deliveries Message-ID: Hello, I'm have Mailman 1.0rc2 installed and recently noticed that it sends duplicate messages when mailing out to a large list. Is this a know Mailman bug, and if so, has it been fixed in v2? Also, is there any way to suppress this behavior in Mailman 1.0rc2? Mik -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20010507/a6fd5702/attachment.html From techgrrl at beeze.com Tue May 8 06:20:52 2001 From: techgrrl at beeze.com (Sarah K. Miller) Date: Mon, 7 May 2001 21:20:52 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem with Sender Info Message-ID: <013301c0d776$45165c60$0200010a@home.beeze.com> I run a server with about 80 lists on it. Everything goes smoothly until the monthly reminder is sent out on the first of the month. Every outgoing message indicates the "Sender" is the same list-owner, regardless of which list the subscriber was actually a member of. For example, I have a lists named blah1 at domain.org, blah2 at domain.org and blah3 at domain.org. The monthly reminder shows every message to have a "sender" of blah2-owner at domain.org. This causes the undeliverable messages from all 80 lists to land in the lap of some poor unsuspecting list administrator who has no clue why they're getting bounces from people who aren't on their list. I would like to change the default "Sender" to be mailman-owner at domain.org. How do I do this or at least prevent all the bounces from going to the same list owner? -- Sarah From claw at kanga.nu Tue May 8 07:54:36 2001 From: claw at kanga.nu (J C Lawrence) Date: Mon, 07 May 2001 22:54:36 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: remove this? In-Reply-To: Message from Spades of "Sat, 05 May 2001 03:52:55 +0800." <3.0.32.20010505035254.0152a1d4@smtp.magix.com.sg> References: <3.0.32.20010505035254.0152a1d4@smtp.magix.com.sg> Message-ID: <16707.989301276@kanga.nu> On Sat, 05 May 2001 03:52:55 +0800 spades wrote: > How should I remove these on each post? makes my message long. You would be generally ill advised to remove any of them. -- J C Lawrence claw at kanga.nu ---------(*) http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/ The pressure to survive and rhetoric may make strange bedfellows From claw at kanga.nu Tue May 8 07:56:42 2001 From: claw at kanga.nu (J C Lawrence) Date: Mon, 07 May 2001 22:56:42 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Maybe this is a FAQ, I'm not sure In-Reply-To: Message from Marco van Tol of "Mon, 07 May 2001 11:35:32 +0200." <20010507113532.D5262@tols.org> References: <20010507113532.D5262@tols.org> Message-ID: <20918.989301402@kanga.nu> On Mon, 7 May 2001 11:35:32 +0200 Marco van Tol wrote: > Hi, In the past I have tried to run a maillist using MajorDomo, > but couldn't get it to prevent external people from mailing to > lists by telnetting to port 25 of the mail server claiming to be > anybody that is inside the list. Given the current state of deployed technology, there is no proper handling for this except hand moderatorating the list. SMTP/TLS is a potenial long term address, but its current use is small and there's no guarantee that they chain of authentication extends back to the original sender. -- J C Lawrence claw at kanga.nu ---------(*) http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/ The pressure to survive and rhetoric may make strange bedfellows From satyap at satya.virtualave.net Tue May 8 12:47:50 2001 From: satyap at satya.virtualave.net (Satya) Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 16:17:50 +0530 (IST) Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help In-Reply-To: <01050413151517.01423@ttroy3> Message-ID: On May 4, 2001 at 13:15, Troy Heber wrote: >http://mysite/mailman/listinfo/ --- Everything is fine Your resolver probably sees this as a local page? >http://mysite.mydomain.com/listinfo/ -- The page comes up but there are no >lists! Perhaps this option (under privacy options on each list's page) has something to do with it? Advertise this list when people ask what lists are on this machine? [16]( ) No [17](*) Yes -- Satya. US-bound grad students! For pre-apps, see A stitch in time would have confused Einstein. From satyap at satya.virtualave.net Tue May 8 12:48:49 2001 From: satyap at satya.virtualave.net (Satya) Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 16:18:49 +0530 (IST) Subject: [Mailman-Users] Wierd errors in maillog In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On May 5, 2001 at 20:36, Thomas von Hassel wrote: >f45IM6015850: ... Cannot mail >directly to programs >tollerlist at mail.list.toller-klub.dk "|/etc/smrsh/wrapper post tollerlist" tollerlist at mail.list.toller-klub.dk: "|/etc/smrsh/wrapper post tollerlist" -- Satya. US-bound grad students! For pre-apps, see All wiyht. Rho sritched mg kegtops awound ? From satyap at satya.virtualave.net Tue May 8 12:46:07 2001 From: satyap at satya.virtualave.net (Satya) Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 16:16:07 +0530 (IST) Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman password problem In-Reply-To: <20010507140403.E22542@leet.org> Message-ID: [posted and mailed] On May 7, 2001 at 14:04, David Jacobson wrote: >I've setup mailman after hours of work (modifying etc). Now I need >it so I can subscribe clients _without_ a password, when I click on >the mass subscribe and put a few people in then I try and >unsubscribe it requires a password, now the password is my admin >password to unsubscribe users! Which is bad.. A) I can't give them >admin pass to unsubscribe B) I need them to be able to unsubscribe >without password, please this is pretty urgent if someone could mail There should be a default random password set for them, which they (or you) can retrieve from the web interface ("Send me my password" or some such). To get rid of passwords (you can't, it's an illusion) try http://satya.virtualave.net/download.html#mailmanw >me directly at jakes at leet.org or davidj at ensquared.com ASAP it would Done. -- Satya. US-bound grad students! For pre-apps, see From satyap at satya.virtualave.net Tue May 8 12:49:17 2001 From: satyap at satya.virtualave.net (Satya) Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 16:19:17 +0530 (IST) Subject: [Mailman-Users] Customization In-Reply-To: <000b01c0d643$234a5200$0100a8c0@rabit.telusplanet.net> Message-ID: On May 6, 2001 at 09:42, Bruce Thomas wrote: >I am wondering if there is a method to automatically strip attachments from >messages received by the list prior to sending the message out to the list I hear there's something called demime out there. -- Satya. US-bound grad students! For pre-apps, see All programmers are optimists. From toyonaga at jp.fujitsu.com Tue May 8 14:06:36 2001 From: toyonaga at jp.fujitsu.com (=?ISO-2022-JP?B?GyRCSy0xSkMjP00bKEI=?= (MPX)) Date: Tue, 08 May 2001 21:06:36 +0900 Subject: [Mailman-Users] purge pending submittion from command line? Message-ID: <200105081206.f48C6b216703@minerva.mpx.cs.fujitsu.co.jp> Hi all, I've been in trouble with MailMan Web Interface. Actually its not a problem of MailMan but of a stupid mail server that spammed us thousands of craps repeatedly. As a result, we have over 3000 pending request to process left and I cannot open the "Tend to pending administrative requests" form for them. Is there any way to manually process the pending request from command line? ---- Regards, Tatsuto Toyonaga From alex at phred.org Tue May 8 14:32:56 2001 From: alex at phred.org (alex wetmore) Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 05:32:56 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Mailman-Users] Customization In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010508053208.E60925-100000@phred.org> On Tue, 8 May 2001, Satya wrote: > On May 6, 2001 at 09:42, Bruce Thomas wrote: > >I am wondering if there is a method to automatically strip attachments from > >messages received by the list prior to sending the message out to the list > > I hear there's something called demime out there. http://www.phred.org/~alex/stripmime.html is one solution, and there is a link to demime at the bottom of the page. Someone also recently checked in patches for Mailman that does the same thing, so hopefully that will appear in 2.1. alex From adam at morrison-ind.com Tue May 8 15:22:58 2001 From: adam at morrison-ind.com (Adam Tauno Williams) Date: Tue, 08 May 2001 09:22:58 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Mailman-Users] Disabling URL in notification message Message-ID: <989328178.3af7f332b2f0c@barracuda> The welcome message when a user is joined to a mailman list includes URL's for removeing/manageing their list description. But since I don't have a web server I can't provide public access to these pages, I just want to use the e-mail subscribe/unsubscribe functionality. Is there a way to disable this in the message? Systems and Network Administrator Morrison Industries 1825 Monroe Ave NW. Grand Rapids, MI. 49505 From pug at pug.net Tue May 8 15:38:42 2001 From: pug at pug.net (Pug Bainter) Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 08:38:42 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Customization In-Reply-To: <20010508053208.E60925-100000@phred.org>; from alex@phred.org on Tue, May 08, 2001 at 05:32:56AM -0700 References: <20010508053208.E60925-100000@phred.org> Message-ID: <20010508083842.A17902@stardock.pug.net> alex wetmore (alex at phred.org) said something that sounded like: > http://www.phred.org/~alex/stripmime.html is one solution, and there is a > link to demime at the bottom of the page. Someone also recently checked > in patches for Mailman that does the same thing, so hopefully that will > appear in 2.1. I had previously used stripmime with some success. Because of my issues with doing pipelines in the aliases file I tried the de-mime patch for Mailman. I've been *very* happy with this as it does some much fancier footwork with HTML and multi-part messages. I found a minor bug due to an invalid MIME message and the author came out with a patch very quickly and was even responsive over a weekend. Ciao, -- Pug Bainter | AMD, Inc. System Engineer, MTS | Mail Stop 625 Pug.Bainter at amd.com | pug at pug.net | 5900 E. Ben White Blvd Phone: (512) 602-0364 | Fax: (512) 602-6970 | Austin, TX 78741 Note: The views may not reflect my employers, or even my own for that matter. From braker at danenet.wicip.org Tue May 8 16:18:16 2001 From: braker at danenet.wicip.org (Steve Braker) Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 09:18:16 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [Mailman-Users] missing list info and admin pages In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hello. My web host provides Mailman, which worked fine until a few weeks ago when the list info and admin pages suddenly stopped working. The lists themselves still work fine, and subscriptions can be done via email. But the major web interface is just gone. Does anyone have any tips I could pass along to their tech support as to where to look for the trouble? The error message is: _____________________ Internal Server Error The server encountered an internal error or misconfiguration and was unable to complete your request. Please contact the server administrator, webmaster at poynette.net and inform them of the time the error occurred, and anything you might have done that may have caused the error. More information about this error may be available in the server error log. Additionally, a 404 Not Found error was encountered while trying to use an ErrorDocument to handle the request. Apache/1.3.17 Server at www.poynette.net Port 80 _____________________ Thanks for any tips! -- -- Steve Braker -- WORTHWHILE FILMS -- media production for nonprofits -- -- +001 608-635-7170 -- braker at worthwhilefilms.com -- Poynette, WI USA -- -- From yogesh at janus.gsf.de Tue May 8 16:42:28 2001 From: yogesh at janus.gsf.de (Yogesh Bhanu) Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 16:42:28 +0200 (METDST) Subject: [Mailman-Users] qrunner errors ... Message-ID: <200105081442.QAA00519@janus.gsf.de> HI, Suddenly I'm getting this mail .. ################################################ Traceback (innermost last): File "/home/mailman/cron/qrunner", line 85, in ? from Mailman import MailList File "/home/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 30, in ? import socket ImportError: libssl.so.0: cannot load shared object file: No such file or directory i######################################## I have checked this file does exist ... Also error log shows the following error ########################################################33 ay 08 17:01:01 2001 qrunner(16154): kids = main(lock) May 08 17:01:01 2001 qrunner(16154): File "/home/mailman/cron/qrunner", line 202, in main May 08 17:01:01 2001 qrunner(16154): os.unlink(root+'.db') May 08 17:01:01 2001 qrunner(16154): OSError : [Errno 2] No such file or directory: '/home/mailman/qfiles/1c410a08d13c40eba2ace5b8e95389e950979047.db' ers/mailman: No such file or directory May 08 17:02:02 2001 qrunner(16160): Traceback (most recent call last): May 08 17:02:02 2001 qrunner(16160): File "/home/mailman/cron/qrunner", line 283, in ? May 08 17:02:02 2001 qrunner(16160): kids = main(lock)templates May 08 17:02:02 2001 qrunner(16160): File "/home/mailman/cron/qrunner", line 202, in main May 08 17:02:02 2001 qrunner(16160): os.unlink(root+'.db') May 08 17:02:02 2001 qrunner(16160): OSError : [Errno 2] No such file or directory: '/home/mailman/qfiles/62669c03049786112d5e4 ############################################# ANy help will be great ... Thanks in advance yogesh From t at garbage.dk Tue May 8 17:14:12 2001 From: t at garbage.dk (Thomas von Hassel) Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 17:14:12 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Translation of mailman Message-ID: Hi Is there a way to translate the messeges ppl get when the get automated mail from the listserver. like the password reminder, the wellcome note etc. There in english but most my users are danish so it would be great if u could localize it. /Thomas -- Thomas von Hassel Web4Business ApS Paghs All? 28 Tlf: 70 25 17 70 Fax: 70 25 17 80 Web: http://www.w4b.dk From claw at kanga.nu Tue May 8 18:50:30 2001 From: claw at kanga.nu (J C Lawrence) Date: Tue, 08 May 2001 09:50:30 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] purge pending submittion from command line? In-Reply-To: Message from =?ISO-2022-JP?B?GyRCSy0xSkMjP00bKEI=?= (MPX) of "Tue, 08 May 2001 21:06:36 +0900." <200105081206.f48C6b216703@minerva.mpx.cs.fujitsu.co.jp> References: <200105081206.f48C6b216703@minerva.mpx.cs.fujitsu.co.jp> Message-ID: <31018.989340630@kanga.nu> On Tue, 08 May 2001 21:06:36 +0900 ISO-2022-JP wrote: > Is there any way to manually process the pending request from > command line? Delete the relevant files from ~mailman/data/ -- J C Lawrence claw at kanga.nu ---------(*) http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/ The pressure to survive and rhetoric may make strange bedfellows From lww at ictech.net Tue May 8 21:12:52 2001 From: lww at ictech.net (Bill Warner) Date: Tue, 08 May 2001 14:12:52 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: remove this? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <4.3.1.2.20010508140621.00bd0ec0@pop.ictech.net> At 12:01 PM 5/8/01 -0400, mailman-users-request at python.org wrote: > > How should I remove these (excessive headers) on each post? makes my > message long. > >You would be generally ill advised to remove any of them. Why? IMO, the List-* headers are excessive and should, at the very least, be configurable. If I want my list message to carry this info I can already put it in the footers. Why should I force everyone to scroll past a page long list of headers?! --Bill From jdcole at utmem.edu Tue May 8 21:27:33 2001 From: jdcole at utmem.edu (John David Cole) Date: Tue, 08 May 2001 14:27:33 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Unsubscribing Message-ID: Is there a way to keep people from unsubscribing? I know you can monitor subscriptions, but i did not see anything about monitoring unsubscribing. Thanks for the help. John David Cole University of Tennessee Health Science Center Computing & Telecommunications (901)448-5848 From rowan at icebergmedia.com Tue May 8 21:20:41 2001 From: rowan at icebergmedia.com (Rowan Kerr) Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 15:20:41 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem with Sender Info In-Reply-To: <013301c0d776$45165c60$0200010a@home.beeze.com> Message-ID: -----Original Message----- From: Sarah K. Miller [mailto:techgrrl at beeze.com] > until the monthly reminder is sent out on the first of the month. > Every outgoing message indicates the "Sender" is the same list-owner, > regardless of which list the subscriber was actually a member of. I recently experienced the same situation. (With reminders for 4 lists being sent out, but all coming from one list-owner .. Outlook shows ".. on behalf of mailman-owner.."). My *guess* is that it's a "trusted user" issue (?) .. but I don't know what the options are to setup trusted users with postfix, (with sendmail there should be a list in /etc/mail/trusted-users). Anyone have more clear information on this? -rowan P.S. if this is html/multipart format, i apologize... the techs at my place of employment have turned the ms exchange server against me. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20010508/45ed4760/attachment.htm From satyap at satya.virtualave.net Tue May 8 21:29:58 2001 From: satyap at satya.virtualave.net (Satya) Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 00:59:58 +0530 (IST) Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: remove this? In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20010508140621.00bd0ec0@pop.ictech.net> Message-ID: On May 8, 2001 at 14:12, Bill Warner wrote: >Why? IMO, the List-* headers are excessive and should, at the very least, >be configurable. If I want my list message to carry this info I can >already put it in the footers. Why should I force everyone to scroll past >a page long list of headers?! What long list? They don't show in the default view of Pine. The List-headers are RFC-compliant. Footers are not. We've already had this discussion. Twice, I think. -- Satya. US-bound grad students! For pre-apps, see Reactor error -- core dumped. From mhnoyes at users.sourceforge.net Tue May 8 21:42:46 2001 From: mhnoyes at users.sourceforge.net (Mike Noyes) Date: Tue, 08 May 2001 12:42:46 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: remove this? In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20010508140621.00bd0ec0@pop.ictech.net> References: Message-ID: <4.2.2.20010508124013.00bdf100@pop.mindspring.com> At 2001-05-08 14:12 -0500, Bill Warner wrote: >At 12:01 PM 5/8/01 -0400, mailman-users-request at python.org wrote: >> > How should I remove these (excessive headers) on each post? makes my >> > message long. >> >>You would be generally ill advised to remove any of them. > >Why? IMO, the List-* headers are excessive and should, at the very least, >be configurable. If I want my list message to carry this info I can >already put it in the footers. Why should I force everyone to scroll past >a page long list of headers?! Bill, This may help you. List Headers - Eudora (Win) users You can hide the new list headers. Edit your Eudora.ini file, and add this line under [settings]. TabooHeaders=List,X-UID,Received,Status,X-UIDL,Message,In-Reply, \ X-Priority,Mime-Version,Content,X-Persona,Resent-Message,References, \ Return,X400,X-400,Mail-System,Errors-To,X-List,Delivery,Disposition, \ X-Juno,Precedence,X-Attachments,X-MSMail,X-MimeOLE,X-Nav note: everything other than "List" is the default ref. Eudora .ini Settings TabooHeaders http://www.eudora.com/techsupport/ini.html -- Mike Noyes http://leaf.sourceforge.net/ From chuqui at plaidworks.com Tue May 8 21:47:58 2001 From: chuqui at plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach) Date: Tue, 08 May 2001 12:47:58 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: remove this? In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20010508140621.00bd0ec0@pop.ictech.net> Message-ID: On 5/8/01 12:12 PM, "Bill Warner" wrote: > > Why? IMO, the List-* headers are excessive and should, at the very least, > be configurable. If I want my list message to carry this info I can > already put it in the footers. Why should I force everyone to scroll past > a page long list of headers?! You should have made those comments to the standards committee. The RFC is the RFC. (hint: any DECENT mail client can be configured to show or hide header lines...) From jtrigg at hoflink.com Tue May 8 21:50:47 2001 From: jtrigg at hoflink.com (jtrigg at hoflink.com) Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 15:50:47 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: remove this? In-Reply-To: ; from satyap@satya.virtualave.net on Wed, May 09, 2001 at 12:59:58AM +0530 References: <4.3.1.2.20010508140621.00bd0ec0@pop.ictech.net> Message-ID: <20010508155047.I8850@scadian.net> On Wed, May 09, 2001 at 12:59:58AM +0530, Satya wrote: > On May 8, 2001 at 14:12, Bill Warner wrote: > > >Why? IMO, the List-* headers are excessive and should, at the very least, > >be configurable. If I want my list message to carry this info I can > >already put it in the footers. Why should I force everyone to scroll past > >a page long list of headers?! > > What long list? They don't show in the default view of Pine. They do, however, in the default views of mutt and Eudora. > The List-headers are RFC-compliant. Footers are not. What RFC says that footers are not allowed? Jim Trigg -- Jim Trigg /"\ SKA Blaise de Cormeilles \ / ASCII RIBBON CAMPAIGN Hostmaster X HELP CURE HTML MAIL Academy of S. Gabriel / \ From ashley at pcraft.com Tue May 8 22:08:24 2001 From: ashley at pcraft.com (Ashley M. Kirchner) Date: Tue, 08 May 2001 14:08:24 -0600 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: remove this? References: <4.3.1.2.20010508140621.00bd0ec0@pop.ictech.net> <20010508155047.I8850@scadian.net> Message-ID: <3AF85238.36DF65D0@pcraft.com> jtrigg at hoflink.com wrote: > > The List-headers are RFC-compliant. Footers are not. > > What RFC says that footers are not allowed? No one said footers are not allowed. Read what was said. Footers aren't RFC compliant, that doesn't mean they're not allowed. List-headers on the other hand need to be compliant (and in this case, are). AMK4 -- W | | I haven't lost my mind; it's backed up on tape somewhere. |____________________________________________________________________ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Ashley M. Kirchner . 303.442.6410 x130 SysAdmin / Websmith . 800.441.3873 x130 Photo Craft Laboratories, Inc. . eFax 248.671.0909 http://www.pcraft.com . 3550 Arapahoe Ave #6 .................. . . . . Boulder, CO 80303, USA From satyap at satya.virtualave.net Tue May 8 22:01:06 2001 From: satyap at satya.virtualave.net (Satya) Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 01:31:06 +0530 (IST) Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: remove this? In-Reply-To: <20010508155047.I8850@scadian.net> Message-ID: On May 8, 2001 at 15:50, jtrigg at hoflink.com wrote: >On Wed, May 09, 2001 at 12:59:58AM +0530, Satya wrote: >> The List-headers are RFC-compliant. Footers are not. > >What RFC says that footers are not allowed? Too sleepy. Meant that footers are not recommended/mandated in the same way as the List-* headers. -- Satya. US-bound grad students! For pre-apps, see From rclayton at aprisma.com Tue May 8 22:15:51 2001 From: rclayton at aprisma.com (Clayton, Robert) Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 16:15:51 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: remove this? Message-ID: <5B628B202658D411AD8700508B7869F8038FE1C4@mailhost.aprisma.com> I also don't see any extreme headers flowing through my system. I have an extensive list server that is looking fine. Which mail program are you using that shows a large header? -----Original Message----- From: Satya [mailto:satyap at satya.virtualave.net] Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2001 3:30 PM To: mailman-users at python.org Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Re: remove this? On May 8, 2001 at 14:12, Bill Warner wrote: >Why? IMO, the List-* headers are excessive and should, at the very least, >be configurable. If I want my list message to carry this info I can >already put it in the footers. Why should I force everyone to scroll past >a page long list of headers?! What long list? They don't show in the default view of Pine. The List-headers are RFC-compliant. Footers are not. We've already had this discussion. Twice, I think. -- Satya. US-bound grad students! For pre-apps, see Reactor error -- core dumped. ------------------------------------------------------ Mailman-Users maillist - Mailman-Users at python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users From chuqui at plaidworks.com Tue May 8 22:16:12 2001 From: chuqui at plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach) Date: Tue, 08 May 2001 13:16:12 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: remove this? In-Reply-To: <20010508155047.I8850@scadian.net> Message-ID: On 5/8/01 12:50 PM, "jtrigg at hoflink.com" wrote: >> The List-headers are RFC-compliant. Footers are not. > > What RFC says that footers are not allowed? You know, we have this same argument every few weeks. Barry, can the FAQ/INSTALL/README/etc be updated with a comment about this so we can simply point them to the FAQ and quit having to re-argue this every time? My bottom line is simple. Mailman is a standards-based system. These headers are part of the standards. Taking them out is The Wrong Thing To Do. If you want to do it anyway, on your server, BMG. But don't ask us to show you how, or assume that because you want it that way that we have to help. And if you don't know enough to fix the code on your own, you shouldn't be making decisions like this on how things ought to be done. Chuq (official hard-ass of the 2002 summer olympics) From lww at ictech.net Tue May 8 22:21:27 2001 From: lww at ictech.net (Bill Warner) Date: Tue, 08 May 2001 15:21:27 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: remove this? In-Reply-To: References: <4.3.1.2.20010508140621.00bd0ec0@pop.ictech.net> Message-ID: <4.3.1.2.20010508151409.00bca660@pop.ictech.net> At 12:47 PM 5/8/01 -0700, Chuq Von Rospach wrote: >You should have made those comments to the standards committee. The RFC is >the RFC. What RFC? If you have a cite for an RFC which says that Mailman must add 10 lines worth of headers to every message it sends I'd be delighted to read it. >(hint: any DECENT mail client can be configured to show or hide header >lines...) But that's not the point. (Not mine anyway... :-) I can't see any valid reason why Mailman should force me to inflict these headers on my list readers. If you want them going out on your lists that's just fine, but please give me the option to turn them off on mine. --Bill From lww at ictech.net Tue May 8 22:13:57 2001 From: lww at ictech.net (Bill Warner) Date: Tue, 08 May 2001 15:13:57 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: remove this? In-Reply-To: <4.2.2.20010508124013.00bdf100@pop.mindspring.com> References: <4.3.1.2.20010508140621.00bd0ec0@pop.ictech.net> Message-ID: <4.3.1.2.20010508145844.00bd2600@pop.ictech.net> At 12:42 PM 5/8/01 -0700, Mike Noyes wrote: >ref. Eudora .ini Settings TabooHeaders Hello Mike, Yes, I know about the TabooHeaders settings for Eudora, but most of my list readers don't, and they are probably using some M$ junk to read mail anyway, and they don't care about things like TabooHeaders in any case. The point is, if I don't want those headers going out on *my* list, I don't see any reason why Mailman, which is otherwise highly configurable, should force me to do so. The bottom line is, like the original poster of this thread, I want these headers to go away. Unfortunately, I haven't been able to find where they are coming from. If someone could simply tell me what I need to hack in order to get rid of these headers, I would be grateful. Thanks, --Bill From rclayton at aprisma.com Tue May 8 22:25:29 2001 From: rclayton at aprisma.com (Clayton, Robert) Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 16:25:29 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: remove this? Message-ID: <5B628B202658D411AD8700508B7869F8038FE1C5@mailhost.aprisma.com> Finally, logic prevails! If I as a lay person can figure out how to remove them, then anyone should be able to. I am far from a programmer. -----Original Message----- From: Chuq Von Rospach [mailto:chuqui at plaidworks.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2001 4:16 PM To: jtrigg at hoflink.com; mailman-users at python.org Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Re: remove this? On 5/8/01 12:50 PM, "jtrigg at hoflink.com" wrote: >> The List-headers are RFC-compliant. Footers are not. > > What RFC says that footers are not allowed? You know, we have this same argument every few weeks. Barry, can the FAQ/INSTALL/README/etc be updated with a comment about this so we can simply point them to the FAQ and quit having to re-argue this every time? My bottom line is simple. Mailman is a standards-based system. These headers are part of the standards. Taking them out is The Wrong Thing To Do. If you want to do it anyway, on your server, BMG. But don't ask us to show you how, or assume that because you want it that way that we have to help. And if you don't know enough to fix the code on your own, you shouldn't be making decisions like this on how things ought to be done. Chuq (official hard-ass of the 2002 summer olympics) ------------------------------------------------------ Mailman-Users maillist - Mailman-Users at python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users From mhnoyes at users.sourceforge.net Tue May 8 22:33:05 2001 From: mhnoyes at users.sourceforge.net (Mike Noyes) Date: Tue, 08 May 2001 13:33:05 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: remove this? In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20010508145844.00bd2600@pop.ictech.net> References: <4.2.2.20010508124013.00bdf100@pop.mindspring.com> <4.3.1.2.20010508140621.00bd0ec0@pop.ictech.net> Message-ID: <4.2.2.20010508133052.00bca930@pop.mindspring.com> At 2001-05-08 15:13 -0500, Bill Warner wrote: >At 12:42 PM 5/8/01 -0700, Mike Noyes wrote: >>ref. Eudora .ini Settings TabooHeaders > >Yes, I know about the TabooHeaders settings for Eudora, but most of my >list readers don't, and they are probably using some M$ junk to read mail >anyway, and they don't care about things like TabooHeaders in any case. > >The point is, if I don't want those headers going out on *my* list, I >don't see any reason why Mailman, which is otherwise highly configurable, >should force me to do so. > >The bottom line is, like the original poster of this thread, I want these >headers to go away. Unfortunately, I haven't been able to find where they >are coming from. If someone could simply tell me what I need to hack in >order to get rid of these headers, I would be grateful. Bill, Someone posted a hack to remove the headers a while ago. Search the list if you're interested. The Mailman developers are just following RFC2369. All lists will eventually implement this, so I'd figure out a way to educate your users. Just my opinion. >Thanks, No problem. -- Mike Noyes http://leaf.sourceforge.net/ From rclayton at aprisma.com Tue May 8 22:48:32 2001 From: rclayton at aprisma.com (Clayton, Robert) Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 16:48:32 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: remove this? Message-ID: <5B628B202658D411AD8700508B7869F8038FE1C6@mailhost.aprisma.com> Here is the address of the RFC list that pertains to structure and such. Fair warning though. Have lots of coffee ready..... www.imc.org/rfcs.html#rfc822 From alex at phred.org Tue May 8 23:01:13 2001 From: alex at phred.org (alex wetmore) Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 14:01:13 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: remove this? In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20010508145844.00bd2600@pop.ictech.net> Message-ID: <20010508140040.M60925-100000@phred.org> On Tue, 8 May 2001, Bill Warner wrote: > Yes, I know about the TabooHeaders settings for Eudora, but most of my list > readers don't, and they are probably using some M$ junk to read mail > anyway, and they don't care about things like TabooHeaders in any case. None of the MS Clients (at least that I've used) show these headers. alex From tib at tigerknight.org Tue May 8 23:13:33 2001 From: tib at tigerknight.org (Tib) Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 14:13:33 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem with mailinglist/archives. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Nope, no stale locks. It was having problems like that before, so I deleted the list (saved the config file) and recreated the list, imported the config file, and ran the arch command to reindex the archives - which got me to where I am now. The mail goes to the list just fine, but the archives won't update. Tib On Tue, 8 May 2001, Daniel Einspanjer wrote: > Hrm.. I didn't realize that you had other lists that were already operating on this box. there is only one crontab.in file that handles all the work for mailman. > > A couple more ideas that you might want to investigate: > > * Did you run move_list on the new list? If it hangs, make sure you don't have any stale lock files. > * Check your syslog and cron logs to see if the cron job is running into a problem on this list. > > Hope this helps. > > Daniel > > On Tue, 8 May 2001 13:45:37 -0700 (PDT), Tib wrote: > Is there a cron job specificly for each list or is there just one global > mailman cron archive activity? The archives for the other mailing lists I have > work fine - it's just this one that never updates. > > > Tib > > On Tue, 8 May 2001, Daniel Einspanjer wrote: > > > Have you checked to see if you have a cron job to do the archival on your new machine? > > > > Daniel > > > > On Mon, 7 May 2001 18:41:26 -0700 (PDT), Tib wrote: > > I'm running a mailing list with about 150 users. It's fairly low traffic. It > > was transfered from one machine to another, and I imported the .mbox file from > > the old server, and all appeared to be well. I've noticed now though that while > > messages do get through and distributed - the archives are no longer being > > updated for that list. I've blown it away and recreated it several times, but > > still it hasn't fixed it. Suggestions? running the check_perms script found no > > problems, but I saw that a lot of files (not just for this list) were owned by > > root, so I fixed those with no noticable impact on anything. > > > > > > Tib > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------ > > Mailman-Users maillist - Mailman-Users at python.org > > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users > > > From Paul.Ondercin at motorola.com Tue May 8 23:22:36 2001 From: Paul.Ondercin at motorola.com (Ondercin Paul-O10322) Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 14:22:36 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: remove this? Message-ID: > > Yes, I know about the TabooHeaders settings for Eudora, but > most of my list > > readers don't, and they are probably using some M$ junk to read mail > > anyway, and they don't care about things like TabooHeaders > in any case. > None of the MS Clients (at least that I've used) show these headers. Glossing over the fact that M$ usually ignores any standards they feel like, Outlook likes to hide the headers from the user. Open the letter from double-clicking on it, and in the View/Options menu option you can find the missing headers listed as "Internet Headers". You can also get to here by right-clicking on a message from the subjects pane (pain?) and selecting "Options". Of course, there are NO headers listed here for any email sent Exchange-to-Exchange. Which makes it a ball to try and trace a message... -Paul Ondercin Motorola Postmaster From chuqui at plaidworks.com Tue May 8 23:55:03 2001 From: chuqui at plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach) Date: Tue, 08 May 2001 14:55:03 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: remove this? In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20010508151409.00bca660@pop.ictech.net> Message-ID: On 5/8/01 1:21 PM, "Bill Warner" wrote: > At 12:47 PM 5/8/01 -0700, Chuq Von Rospach wrote: >> You should have made those comments to the standards committee. The RFC is >> the RFC. > > What RFC? 2369. >> (hint: any DECENT mail client can be configured to show or hide header >> lines...) > > But that's not the point. (Not mine anyway... :-) I can't see any valid > reason why Mailman should force me to inflict these headers on my list > readers. That's because you haven't looked into the reason yet. Those lines are there to help mail clients build automated interfaces to list operations. It's a new, emerging standard. The only way you get mail client authors to support it is if the mail server authors also support it. If you just say "this does nothing" and hack it out, then you're right, it never WILL do anything, because you'll have botched the reason for the standards. At best, it's a minor short term irritation for a long-term improvement in how mail lists operate. From chuqui at plaidworks.com Tue May 8 23:55:52 2001 From: chuqui at plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach) Date: Tue, 08 May 2001 14:55:52 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: remove this? In-Reply-To: <5B628B202658D411AD8700508B7869F8038FE1C6@mailhost.aprisma.com> Message-ID: On 5/8/01 1:48 PM, "Clayton, Robert" wrote: > Here is the address of the RFC list that pertains to structure and such. > Fair warning though. Have lots of coffee ready..... > > www.imc.org/rfcs.html#rfc822 Except that's not the RFC involing list-id and list* headers. And RFC822 was recently superseded by an updated version... From lww at ictech.net Wed May 9 00:24:11 2001 From: lww at ictech.net (Bill Warner) Date: Tue, 08 May 2001 17:24:11 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: remove this? In-Reply-To: <4.2.2.20010508133052.00bca930@pop.mindspring.com> References: <4.3.1.2.20010508145844.00bd2600@pop.ictech.net> <4.2.2.20010508124013.00bdf100@pop.mindspring.com> <4.3.1.2.20010508140621.00bd0ec0@pop.ictech.net> Message-ID: <4.3.1.2.20010508163649.00be3630@pop.ictech.net> At 01:33 PM 5/8/01 -0700, Mike Noyes wrote: >Someone posted a hack to remove the headers a while ago. Search the list >if you're interested. OK, I found a reference to this in the archive, and located the spot to hack the code. On my first look I didn't grep deep enough into the distribution. Mea Culpa. So, this will be my last post on the subject and then I'll quietly go away, to the delight of the self-righteous among us, and hack my own installation. >The Mailman developers are just following RFC2369. Thanks for the cite, Mike. I've read RFC2369, and while I applaud following the relevant RFCs, I'd like to make a few observations about 2369 and it's application to Mailman: 1. Despite the protestations of some, there is nothing mandatory or required about these headers. Quite the contrary. From RFC2369: "Implementing these fields will be optional." 2. It seems clear, IMO, that the intent of RFC2369 is that you should be able to choose a subset of these headers on a per list basis: "Thus, some list managers or mail clients can choose to implement a subset of the fields based on the specific needs of their individual lists." It makes absolutely no sense, for example, to send the List-Post header to a read-only list, or to send the List-Archive header to a list that isn't archived. 3. If the intent is really to be hard-assed about literal compliance with RFC2369 then (a) why aren't the List- headers optionally configurable as implied by the RFC itself? (b) why are List- (eg. List-Id) headers which are not defined in RFC2369 implemented even though the RFC is already concerned about "avoiding the creation of too many fields"? (c) why isn't the List-Owner field, which is defined in the RFC, implemented? >All lists will eventually implement this, so I'd figure out a way to >educate your users. If and when MUAs make automated use of these headers as suggested by the RFC, then it may be a good idea. But until then, I simply can't afford the added tech support burden to teach every user how to make this kind of config change to their particular client. It's hard enough to keep their basic setting in order! ;-) > Just my opinion. As the above is just mine... --Bill From ashley at pcraft.com Wed May 9 00:32:56 2001 From: ashley at pcraft.com (Ashley M. Kirchner) Date: Tue, 08 May 2001 16:32:56 -0600 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Call for suggestions Message-ID: <3AF87418.E62EC0AF@pcraft.com> I want to setup multiple servers running (the same) mailman lists. The ways I can think of doing this is either: Option 1: Setup a master machine with everything on it and export the mailman structure for NFS so the other machines can mount it, and use it. Problem: What happens if the NFS connection dies? Msgs get lost. That's not desirable. Option 2: Have the remote machines mirror the master (through [s]ftp or [s]rcp). This will avoid having to deal with NFS dropping. Problem: The files won't be as up-to-date as the master, unless one starts mirroring continuously, which would be ridiculous. Option 2 looks the most promising, however what's a good interval? 30 minutes? 15? More? Less? And what happens if during the mirroring processes, a new message came in on that remote server? Things can get horribly broken. So I'd have to think about having to suspend the MTA as well while that's going on. I'm open for suggestions. -- W | | I haven't lost my mind; it's backed up on tape somewhere. |____________________________________________________________________ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Ashley M. Kirchner . 303.442.6410 x130 SysAdmin / Websmith . 800.441.3873 x130 Photo Craft Laboratories, Inc. . eFax 248.671.0909 http://www.pcraft.com . 3550 Arapahoe Ave #6 .................. . . . . Boulder, CO 80303, USA From chuqui at plaidworks.com Wed May 9 00:45:56 2001 From: chuqui at plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach) Date: Tue, 08 May 2001 15:45:56 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Call for suggestions In-Reply-To: <3AF87418.E62EC0AF@pcraft.com> Message-ID: On 5/8/01 3:32 PM, "Ashley M. Kirchner" wrote: > > I want to setup multiple servers running (the same) mailman lists. Before we start building this beast -- why? Trying to keep the subscriber databases in sync across machines is going to be problematic. Before we build it, let's make sure there isn't a better way to do this... From ashley at pcraft.com Wed May 9 01:01:22 2001 From: ashley at pcraft.com (Ashley M. Kirchner) Date: Tue, 08 May 2001 17:01:22 -0600 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Call for suggestions References: Message-ID: <3AF87AC2.F6A9BFCF@pcraft.com> Chuq Von Rospach wrote: > Before we start building this beast -- why? Load balancing. I prefer having one server running mailman and having all the lists on it, however this means that machine will also get hit pretty hard when several lists get to receive/send messages. Having a cluster of machine that can handle incoming/outgoing msgs would solve this problem. (I know for a fact that (big ass) services like Yahoo do this. If you do a 'nslookup mx1.mail.yahoo.com', you'll get a series of servers returned. Somehow, somewhere, they all should tie back in to one DB somewhere, and I'm only assuming it's done through NFS. But, as you pointed out.... > Trying to keep the subscriber databases in sync across machines is going to > be problematic. ...yes, I suppose that would be problematic. Short note: I'm ONLY trying to do this for mail. The web interface will still only be on one machine, and be accessible from that one machine. Setting up round-robin for the web server as well now means I'm dealing with two different things. Right now, I want to see IF it is possible, and how it will perform. -- W | | I haven't lost my mind; it's backed up on tape somewhere. |____________________________________________________________________ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Ashley M. Kirchner . 303.442.6410 x130 SysAdmin / Websmith . 800.441.3873 x130 Photo Craft Laboratories, Inc. . eFax 248.671.0909 http://www.pcraft.com . 3550 Arapahoe Ave #6 .................. . . . . Boulder, CO 80303, USA From mhnoyes at users.sourceforge.net Wed May 9 01:05:58 2001 From: mhnoyes at users.sourceforge.net (Mike Noyes) Date: Tue, 08 May 2001 16:05:58 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: remove this? In-Reply-To: References: <5B628B202658D411AD8700508B7869F8038FE1C6@mailhost.aprisma.com> Message-ID: <4.2.2.20010508160021.00aa07d0@pop.mindspring.com> At 2001-05-08 14:55 -0700, Chuq Von Rospach wrote: >On 5/8/01 1:48 PM, "Clayton, Robert" wrote: > > > Here is the address of the RFC list that pertains to structure and > > such. Fair warning though. Have lots of coffee ready..... > > > > www.imc.org/rfcs.html#rfc822 > >Except that's not the RFC involing list-id and list* headers. And RFC822 >was recently superseded by an updated version... Chuq & Clayton, They are: Simple Mail Transfer Protocol ftp://ftp.rfc-editor.org/in-notes/rfc2821.txt Internet Message Format ftp://ftp.rfc-editor.org/in-notes/rfc2822.txt Apparently the numbers were reserved. -- Mike Noyes http://leaf.sourceforge.net/ From claw at kanga.nu Wed May 9 01:27:12 2001 From: claw at kanga.nu (J C Lawrence) Date: Tue, 08 May 2001 16:27:12 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: remove this? In-Reply-To: Message from Bill Warner of "Tue, 08 May 2001 14:12:52 CDT." <4.3.1.2.20010508140621.00bd0ec0@pop.ictech.net> References: <4.3.1.2.20010508140621.00bd0ec0@pop.ictech.net> Message-ID: <30076.989364432@kanga.nu> On Tue, 08 May 2001 14:12:52 -0500 Bill Warner wrote: > At 12:01 PM 5/8/01 -0400, mailman-users-request at python.org wrote: >> > How should I remove these (excessive headers) on each post? >> makes my message long. >> >> You would be generally ill advised to remove any of them. > Why? The list headers are documented in RFC 2359 and are a generically Good Idea. The other headers you referenced with very rare exception are required for correct mail system behaviour. > IMO, the List-* headers are excessive and should, at the very > least, be configurable. This has been a point of contention on the list and elsewhere. I disagree. > If I want my list message to carry this info I can already put it > in the footers. Which is arguably quite offensive as it clutters the body of the message with repetitive noise rather than being safely and largely invisibly tucked away in the headers (invisibly until accessed/required).. > Why should I force everyone to scroll past a page long list of > headers?! You don't. Only those with broken mail clients do. The correct target at this point is to pursue the authors of such broken mail clients until they either catch a clue or their users abandon their products as unusable (wish that would happen to Outlook). -- J C Lawrence claw at kanga.nu ---------(*) http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/ The pressure to survive and rhetoric may make strange bedfellows From claw at kanga.nu Wed May 9 01:27:32 2001 From: claw at kanga.nu (J C Lawrence) Date: Tue, 08 May 2001 16:27:32 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Unsubscribing In-Reply-To: Message from John David Cole of "Tue, 08 May 2001 14:27:33 CDT." References: Message-ID: <30669.989364452@kanga.nu> On Tue, 08 May 2001 14:27:33 -0500 John David Cole wrote: > Is there a way to keep people from unsubscribing? I know you can > monitor subscriptions, but i did not see anything about monitoring > unsubscribing. Thanks for the help. Currently there is no direct support for this. -- J C Lawrence claw at kanga.nu ---------(*) http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/ The pressure to survive and rhetoric may make strange bedfellows From chuqui at plaidworks.com Wed May 9 01:29:28 2001 From: chuqui at plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach) Date: Tue, 08 May 2001 16:29:28 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Call for suggestions In-Reply-To: <3AF87AC2.F6A9BFCF@pcraft.com> Message-ID: On 5/8/01 4:01 PM, "Ashley M. Kirchner" wrote: >> Before we start building this beast -- why? > > Load balancing. I figured, but I wanted to make sure. > I prefer having one server running mailman and having all > the lists on it, however this means that machine will also get hit pretty hard > when several lists get to receive/send messages. Having a cluster of machine > that can handle incoming/outgoing msgs would solve this problem. Okay, stupid question -- how big is this server you're building? How many lists? How big? Do you NEED this? > (I know for > a > fact that (big ass) services like Yahoo do this. And services like yahoo have programmers on staff to write this stuff, and admins on staff to manage it, and budgets for the hardware, and... > If you do a 'nslookup > mx1.mail.yahoo.com', you'll get a series of servers returned. Yes, however, I think you're looking at this sideways. MX records are for incoming relays. That doesn't mean the list servers are on those machines; in fact, I'll guarantee they're not. Those are simply relay machines who's job it is to handle incoming mail, and then figure out what server gets it and forward it. > Somehow, > somewhere, they all should tie back in to one DB somewhere, and I'm only > assuming it's done through NFS. But, as you pointed out.... Maybe, maybe not. And it's very likely NOT NFS -- a place like yahoo has likely written a custom server system, and the back end is an SQL database of some sort, perhaps a big-ass replicated one (like the one I'm currently designing, actually...). What they are doing is a lot different than what mailman does, and the back-end infrastructure is significantly different. >> Trying to keep the subscriber databases in sync across machines is going to >> be problematic. > > ...yes, I suppose that would be problematic. To put it mildly. If you need something the size of Yahoogroups, then you shouldn't be using Mailman. I'm not. You could potentially distribute mailman if you wanted; I can think of two ways of doing it off the top of my head fairly safely. But before you do that, I think you really need to decide if that's what you really need. I tend to think Mailman on decent hardware will go further than you probably think it will. How big are these lists? How many messages a day? How many total e-mails are you thinking to send out a day? What's the hardware? What's the network and the pipe? From claw at kanga.nu Wed May 9 01:33:50 2001 From: claw at kanga.nu (J C Lawrence) Date: Tue, 08 May 2001 16:33:50 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: remove this? In-Reply-To: Message from Bill Warner of "Tue, 08 May 2001 15:21:27 CDT." <4.3.1.2.20010508151409.00bca660@pop.ictech.net> References: <4.3.1.2.20010508140621.00bd0ec0@pop.ictech.net> <4.3.1.2.20010508151409.00bca660@pop.ictech.net> Message-ID: <9579.989364830@kanga.nu> On Tue, 08 May 2001 15:21:27 -0500 Bill Warner wrote: > At 12:47 PM 5/8/01 -0700, Chuq Von Rospach wrote: >> You should have made those comments to the standards >> committee. The RFC is the RFC. > What RFC? If you have a cite for an RFC which says that Mailman > must add 10 lines worth of headers to every message it sends I'd > be delighted to read it. RFC 2369: http://www.pasteur.fr/infosci/RFC/23xx/2369 >> (hint: any DECENT mail client can be configured to show or hide >> header lines...) > But that's not the point. (Not mine anyway... :-) I can't see any > valid reason why Mailman should force me to inflict these headers > on my list readers. This is a choice. In this case it is the choice of the Mailman developers, and they've made this quite clear, that the ability to turn off RFC 2369 headers is a generically Bad Thing and thus should not be supported (see the list archives for details and discussion on this). Others, such as yourself, feel differently. Thus, by the wonder of Open Source you are free to edit your Mailman installation to remove the headers, and to distribute and maintain the patches that support that capability. > If you want them going out on your lists that's just fine, but > please give me the option to turn them off on mine. You have the option and have always had it: Hack the source. -- J C Lawrence claw at kanga.nu ---------(*) http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/ The pressure to survive and rhetoric may make strange bedfellows From claw at kanga.nu Wed May 9 01:35:30 2001 From: claw at kanga.nu (J C Lawrence) Date: Tue, 08 May 2001 16:35:30 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: remove this? In-Reply-To: Message from Chuq Von Rospach of "Tue, 08 May 2001 13:16:12 PDT." References: Message-ID: <12626.989364930@kanga.nu> On Tue, 08 May 2001 13:16:12 -0700 Chuq Von Rospach wrote: > Chuq (official hard-ass of the 2002 summer olympics) The concept of spandex covered buns at an athletic avent for SysAdms would appear to violate several basic tenets of the physical universe -- well, at least in my universe... Scary. -- J C Lawrence claw at kanga.nu ---------(*) http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/ The pressure to survive and rhetoric may make strange bedfellows From claw at kanga.nu Wed May 9 01:36:21 2001 From: claw at kanga.nu (J C Lawrence) Date: Tue, 08 May 2001 16:36:21 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: remove this? In-Reply-To: Message from Bill Warner of "Tue, 08 May 2001 15:13:57 CDT." <4.3.1.2.20010508145844.00bd2600@pop.ictech.net> References: <4.3.1.2.20010508140621.00bd0ec0@pop.ictech.net> <4.3.1.2.20010508145844.00bd2600@pop.ictech.net> Message-ID: <14189.989364981@kanga.nu> On Tue, 08 May 2001 15:13:57 -0500 Bill Warner wrote: > The bottom line is, like the original poster of this thread, I > want these headers to go away. Unfortunately, I haven't been able > to find where they are coming from. If someone could simply tell > me what I need to hack in order to get rid of these headers, I > would be grateful. I believe a patch was posted to the list a couple months ago. -- J C Lawrence claw at kanga.nu ---------(*) http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/ The pressure to survive and rhetoric may make strange bedfellows From claw at kanga.nu Wed May 9 01:37:37 2001 From: claw at kanga.nu (J C Lawrence) Date: Tue, 08 May 2001 16:37:37 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: remove this? In-Reply-To: Message from "Clayton, Robert" of "Tue, 08 May 2001 16:48:32 EDT." <5B628B202658D411AD8700508B7869F8038FE1C6@mailhost.aprisma.com> References: <5B628B202658D411AD8700508B7869F8038FE1C6@mailhost.aprisma.com> Message-ID: <16452.989365057@kanga.nu> On Tue, 8 May 2001 16:48:32 -0400 Robert Clayton wrote: > Here is the address of the RFC list that pertains to structure and > such. Fair warning though. Have lots of coffee ready..... > www.imc.org/rfcs.html#rfc822 RFC 822 has been replaced by RFC 2822. -- J C Lawrence claw at kanga.nu ---------(*) http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/ The pressure to survive and rhetoric may make strange bedfellows From chuqui at plaidworks.com Wed May 9 01:54:59 2001 From: chuqui at plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach) Date: Tue, 08 May 2001 16:54:59 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: remove this? In-Reply-To: <30076.989364432@kanga.nu> Message-ID: On 5/8/01 4:27 PM, "J C Lawrence" wrote: >> IMO, the List-* headers are excessive and should, at the very >> least, be configurable. > > This has been a point of contention on the list and elsewhere. I > disagree. I'll take a middle ground. If he really feels this is how the list-* headers ought to operate, he should write a patch to mailman and submit it to Barry via sourcefourge. Barry can then decide whether to include it, either as default behavior or as some configurable option or external hack/patch. Or if you really feel strongly about it, go find a more compatible MLM. This issue comes up again and again, and I apologize in advance if I sound (or sounded) grumpy about this -- but some of us have put a lot of time and energy into studying these issues, and after a while, it gets tiring to hear people come in who haven't HEARD of the RFCs, much less studied them, coming in and telling us how we have to do things. And then complaining at us when we disagree. If you want to hack your copy of Mailman to send out headers identifying you as the Queen of England, be my guest. But nobody is under any obligation to make that easy, to help you do it, or to give you instructions. Same with hacking list-*. The general consensus among those of us who've put time into understanding this issue is that it's a very good thing for the long-term development of mail list technologies. Short term, it's at best a minor irritant, and that's only to people with cruddy mail clients (consider it an incentive to upgrade to soemthing decent). You're welcome to disagree -- but not demand that we help you do something we think is wrong/stupid/shortsighted, and definitely not that we have to do it your way, when you can't even tell us why it's done this way in the first place... And I apologize (sort of) for ranting, but since I do this stuff for a living, and I put a lot of time into trying to figure this stuff out, I get a little grumpy when people wander in telling me how things ought to work when they've never been under the hood of a piece of email... >> If I want my list message to carry this info I can already put it >> in the footers. > > Which is arguably quite offensive as it clutters the body of the > message with repetitive noise rather than being safely and largely > invisibly tucked away in the headers (invisibly until > accessed/required).. Actually, I'm in the camp of putting at least some of it in the footer TOO, except in digests, where it needs to be in the preamble/header. I've got some interesting (but unpublishable) research on location vs. usage vs. message size... But it's good go give them at least some hint in the message itself, since they (a) won't read instructions, (b) the list-* RFC isn't well implemented, and the folks who most need that info are least likely to know to look in the headers. Implementing list-* is investing in future technologies; footer data is managing today's users. From chuqui at plaidworks.com Wed May 9 01:55:49 2001 From: chuqui at plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach) Date: Tue, 08 May 2001 16:55:49 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: remove this? In-Reply-To: <12626.989364930@kanga.nu> Message-ID: On 5/8/01 4:35 PM, "J C Lawrence" wrote: >> Chuq (official hard-ass of the 2002 summer olympics) > > The concept of spandex covered buns at an athletic avent Especially if they're MY buns. It'd scar some people for life... From ashley at pcraft.com Wed May 9 01:55:21 2001 From: ashley at pcraft.com (Ashley M. Kirchner) Date: Tue, 08 May 2001 17:55:21 -0600 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Call for suggestions References: Message-ID: <3AF88769.A5594FD@pcraft.com> Chuq Von Rospach wrote: > And services like yahoo have programmers on staff to write this stuff, and > admins on staff to manage it, and budgets for the hardware, and... Something I don't have. :) That's why I'm trying to go as light as I can, with currently (working) software. > How big are these lists? How many messages a day? How many total e-mails are > you thinking to send out a day? What's the hardware? What's the network and > the pipe? Right now, the single machine running lists is a 200Mhz RISC machine, hosting roughly 30 lists, each one with subscriber base between 1,500 to 5,000 (only about 5 of those lists actually hit the 5,000 mark, the rest are all under 2,500). Each list is generating an average of 20 msgs per hour, most of them being between the hours of 6AM and 9PM. The machine is sitting on a 100BT hub, connected to a T1. I don't have a problem with the bandwidth generated (considering these are small text msgs), however I do have a problem with the system load and the time it takes for messages to be spewed back out because of load. Yes I know, I should probably look into buying a faster machine, however I don't have that luxury (at the moment). I do however have other machines at my disposal that I can use, providing I can tie them in this (main) one. -- H | Hi, I'm currently out of my mind. Please leave a message. BEEEEP! +-------------------------------------------------------------------- Ashley M. Kirchner . 303.442.6410 x130 Director of Internet Operations / SysAdmin . 800.441.3873 x130 Photo Craft Laboratories, Inc. . 3550 Arapahoe Ave, #6 http://www.pcraft.com ..... . . . Boulder, CO 80303, U.S.A. From chuqui at plaidworks.com Wed May 9 01:57:11 2001 From: chuqui at plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach) Date: Tue, 08 May 2001 16:57:11 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Unsubscribing In-Reply-To: <30669.989364452@kanga.nu> Message-ID: > John David Cole wrote: > >> Is there a way to keep people from unsubscribing? > > Currently there is no direct support for this. And while I understand there are certain circumstances wher ethis might be reasonable (for instance, one of my list servers managers department lists which are mandatory subscriptions), in general, I have to ask why someone wants to force someone to stick around when they don't want to be there. From claw at kanga.nu Wed May 9 02:01:22 2001 From: claw at kanga.nu (J C Lawrence) Date: Tue, 08 May 2001 17:01:22 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: remove this? In-Reply-To: Message from Chuq Von Rospach of "Tue, 08 May 2001 16:54:59 PDT." References: Message-ID: <26809.989366482@kanga.nu> On Tue, 08 May 2001 16:54:59 -0700 Chuq Von Rospach wrote: > On 5/8/01 4:27 PM, "J C Lawrence" wrote: >>> IMO, the List-* headers are excessive and should, at the very >>> least, be configurable. >> This has been a point of contention on the list and elsewhere. I >> disagree. > I'll take a middle ground. If he really feels this is how the > list-* headers ought to operate, he should write a patch to > mailman and submit it to Barry via sourcefourge. Barry can then > decide whether to include it, either as default behavior or as > some configurable option or external hack/patch. I believe this has been done already by the last guy to champion RFC 2369 configurability. > But it's good go give them at least some hint in the message > itself, since they (a) won't read instructions, (b) the list-* RFC > isn't well implemented, and the folks who most need that info > are least likely to know to look in the headers. Implementing > list-* is investing in future technologies; footer data is > managing today's users. Good distinction. I still use the default Mailman footer that points to the list page. With a few thousand subscribers I get about one message a month (little less actually) asking how to unsubscribe, and the vast majority of those are due to some unusual circumstance (mail forwarding etc) which they weren't sure how to penetrate. -- J C Lawrence claw at kanga.nu ---------(*) http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/ The pressure to survive and rhetoric may make strange bedfellows From claw at kanga.nu Wed May 9 02:02:58 2001 From: claw at kanga.nu (J C Lawrence) Date: Tue, 08 May 2001 17:02:58 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: remove this? In-Reply-To: Message from Chuq Von Rospach of "Tue, 08 May 2001 16:55:49 PDT." References: Message-ID: <29668.989366578@kanga.nu> On Tue, 08 May 2001 16:55:49 -0700 Chuq Von Rospach wrote: > On 5/8/01 4:35 PM, "J C Lawrence" wrote: >>> Chuq (official hard-ass of the 2002 summer olympics) >> The concept of spandex covered buns at an athletic avent > Especially if they're MY buns. It'd scar some people for life... I thought I mentioned that _MY_ universe was not capable of supporting such concepts. Yeesh. I'm not quite ready for spontoaneous collapse of the firmament on the basis that probability 1.0 has suddenly been found to be equal to probability 0.0. -- J C Lawrence claw at kanga.nu ---------(*) http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/ The pressure to survive and rhetoric may make strange bedfellows From ashley at pcraft.com Wed May 9 02:02:27 2001 From: ashley at pcraft.com (Ashley M. Kirchner) Date: Tue, 08 May 2001 18:02:27 -0600 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Call for suggestions References: Message-ID: <3AF88913.BE54E08B@pcraft.com> Chuq Von Rospach wrote: > Trying to keep the subscriber databases in sync across machines is going to > be problematic. Tow things I can think off of the top of my head, one being the easiest (maybe). a) NFS or b) If mailman has a way of sending a signal out when something changes on the .db files (or archives? what am I forgetting here?) The remote server could then sync up once they receive this signal. What comes to mind with this last option though is, what happens if something changes on a remote server? Now the master has to sync up... Oy vey! I think I just dug my own grave. -- H | Hi, I'm currently out of my mind. Please leave a message. BEEEEP! +-------------------------------------------------------------------- Ashley M. Kirchner . 303.442.6410 x130 Director of Internet Operations / SysAdmin . 800.441.3873 x130 Photo Craft Laboratories, Inc. . 3550 Arapahoe Ave, #6 http://www.pcraft.com ..... . . . Boulder, CO 80303, U.S.A. From claw at kanga.nu Wed May 9 02:04:07 2001 From: claw at kanga.nu (J C Lawrence) Date: Tue, 08 May 2001 17:04:07 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Unsubscribing In-Reply-To: Message from Chuq Von Rospach of "Tue, 08 May 2001 16:57:11 PDT." References: Message-ID: <31763.989366647@kanga.nu> On Tue, 08 May 2001 16:57:11 -0700 Chuq Von Rospach wrote: > And while I understand there are certain circumstances wher ethis > might be reasonable (for instance, one of my list servers managers > department lists which are mandatory subscriptions), in general, I > have to ask why someone wants to force someone to stick around > when they don't want to be there. Especially when setting NOMAIL is even easier than unsubscribing. -- J C Lawrence claw at kanga.nu ---------(*) http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/ The pressure to survive and rhetoric may make strange bedfellows From chuqui at plaidworks.com Wed May 9 02:08:29 2001 From: chuqui at plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach) Date: Tue, 08 May 2001 17:08:29 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Call for suggestions In-Reply-To: <3AF88769.A5594FD@pcraft.com> Message-ID: On 5/8/01 4:55 PM, "Ashley M. Kirchner" wrote: > Something I don't have. :) That's why I'm trying to go as light as I can, > with > currently (working) software. Well, when you have more stuff, you have more complexity. Someone has to build it and maintain it. > Right now, the single machine running lists is a 200Mhz RISC machine, > hosting > roughly 30 lists, each one with subscriber base between 1,500 to 5,000 (only > about 5 > of those lists actually hit the 5,000 mark, the rest are all under 2,500). > Each > list is generating an average of 20 msgs per hour, most of them being between > the > hours of 6AM and 9PM. And your average delay in delivery is -- how long? >From what you're saying, you're delivering roughly 225-250 messages a day, at an average of, say, 4000 subscribers. That's roughly 1,000,000 pieces of email a day. FWIW, my big mailman machine is a sun e250, and it's handling more than triple that a day, with peak time delays of about 2 hours (except on really bad days or when something goes weird...). I'm not allowed to give out numbers, but it's running at capacity during peak hours, and doing a log more than you're doing. > Yes I know, I should probably look into buying a faster machine, however I > don't > have that luxury (at the moment). I do however have other machines at my > disposal > that I can use, providing I can tie them in this (main) one. The real problem you're seeing is that Mailman 2.0 is singlethreaded. It only does one thing at a time. Barry's fixing this for 2.1. If you can hold on and deal with the delivery delays until then, you will almost guaranteed find that the upgrade will save you the hassle of having ot add hardware and build solutions. When's 2.1? When barry finishes it. But I can pretty much guarantee 2.1 will magically make your hardware faster... Now, before that -- I'll bet there are still things you can do to speed up performance. For instance, I've found that over time, while Mailman has a pretty good bounce-processing system, there are enough weirdie systems out there that won't cooperate. Over time, this stuff clogs up your queues and forces mailman to spend time dealgin with bounces -- going through the bounce queues can clear up a significant amount of processing time, at very little work. You just need to spend time watching the queues and logs and clearing stuff out that gets in the way. And -- what's your MTA? Sendmail? How are you configured? What's your batch size? What are you doing for DNS resolution? I'll bet there are things you can do to mailman to fix up stuff here, or to your delivery system, to speed things up... From chuqui at plaidworks.com Wed May 9 02:10:55 2001 From: chuqui at plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach) Date: Tue, 08 May 2001 17:10:55 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: remove this? In-Reply-To: <29668.989366578@kanga.nu> Message-ID: On 5/8/01 5:02 PM, "J C Lawrence" wrote: >> Especially if they're MY buns. It'd scar some people for life... > > I thought I mentioned that _MY_ universe was not capable of > supporting such concepts. Yeesh. Heh. If you want to scare the children, you can go to www.chuqui.com, and see me in a kilt. Why a kilt with a German name? Do you really want to see me in lederhosen? I thought not... From chuqui at plaidworks.com Wed May 9 02:10:06 2001 From: chuqui at plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach) Date: Tue, 08 May 2001 17:10:06 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: remove this? In-Reply-To: <26809.989366482@kanga.nu> Message-ID: On 5/8/01 5:01 PM, "J C Lawrence" wrote: > Good distinction. I still use the default Mailman footer that > points to the list page. I've decided the default footer isn't quite good enough. And the default mailman digest header is bad -- I've gotten any number of complaints about how bloody long it is. Of course -- I haven't had time to change either, which is why I haven't sent suggestions back in to improve these. Bt it's On The List... From claw at kanga.nu Wed May 9 02:18:22 2001 From: claw at kanga.nu (J C Lawrence) Date: Tue, 08 May 2001 17:18:22 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Call for suggestions In-Reply-To: Message from "Ashley M. Kirchner" of "Tue, 08 May 2001 17:55:21 MDT." <3AF88769.A5594FD@pcraft.com> References: <3AF88769.A5594FD@pcraft.com> Message-ID: <24983.989367502@kanga.nu> On Tue, 08 May 2001 17:55:21 -0600 Ashley M Kirchner wrote: > Chuq Von Rospach wrote: >> And services like yahoo have programmers on staff to write this >> stuff, and admins on staff to manage it, and budgets for the >> hardware, and... > Something I don't have. :) That's why I'm trying to go as light as > I can, with currently (working) software. If I were to go for a first order attempt at reliability/scalability I'd be tempted to do something like (which is actually what we ended up doing at a previous client): Lists run on system X. Outbound list mail is not delivered to the local MTA but to a set of remote MTAs hidden behind a DNS round robin (later was a single IP address which load shared across multiple systems behind the switch).. Spool on the MTA systems is on a battery backed RUPP Silicon disk (10Gig units IIRC, not cheap). Big RAM heavy machines capable of running mid thousands of simultaneous queue runners (under QMail as happens). Domain routing based on historical MX profiling partitioned the spool base and the resultant spool entries are smarthosted out to a pool of delivery servers (more RUPP disks), with the really slow MXes being pulled out and dumped on the black hole box (constantly overwhalmed and struggling to deliver mail to boxes that were mostly not there). >> How big are these lists? How many messages a day? How many total >> e-mails are you thinking to send out a day? What's the hardware? >> What's the network and the pipe? > Right now, the single machine running lists is a 200Mhz RISC > machine, hosting roughly 30 lists, each one with subscriber base > between 1,500 to 5,000 (only about 5 of those lists actually hit > the 5,000 mark, the rest are all under 2,500). Each list is > generating an average of 20 msgs per hour, most of them being > between the hours of 6AM and 9PM. ~500K messages a day. Not too bad really. > The machine is sitting on a 100BT hub, connected to a T1. I don't > have a problem with the bandwidth generated (considering these are > small text msgs), however I do have a problem with the system load > and the time it takes for messages to be spewed back out because > of load. I suspect that your real problems are in choice of MTA, MTA configuration, and lack of a local cacheing name server. Suggest: Toss sendmail for Postfix, Exim, or QMail. Recommend Postfix. Configure the MTA to not do DNS verification for messages received from localhost (127.0.0.1). Install a local cacheing name server. Suggest DJBDNS. Check your RAM usage patterns. Watch swap. Add RAM if indicated. You are *NOT* CPU bound at this point. You may be disk bound if your disks are really slow, syslog is on the same spindle as spool, and/or you have syslog configured to sync mail log writes. > Yes I know, I should probably look into buying a faster machine, > however I don't have that luxury (at the moment). I do however > have other machines at my disposal that I can use, providing I can > tie them in this (main) one. The first tep to distributing load would be to use a second system as the outbound MTA. Fairly simple to do really. Either have list mail spool to the localhost and then smarthost out thru the second box, or have list mail delivered straight to the second box (both work). RAM and disk bandwidth are your enemies at this point. -- J C Lawrence claw at kanga.nu ---------(*) http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/ The pressure to survive and rhetoric may make strange bedfellows From claw at kanga.nu Wed May 9 02:22:42 2001 From: claw at kanga.nu (J C Lawrence) Date: Tue, 08 May 2001 17:22:42 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: remove this? In-Reply-To: Message from Chuq Von Rospach of "Tue, 08 May 2001 17:10:06 PDT." References: Message-ID: <32726.989367762@kanga.nu> On Tue, 08 May 2001 17:10:06 -0700 Chuq Von Rospach wrote: > On 5/8/01 5:01 PM, "J C Lawrence" wrote: >> Good distinction. I still use the default Mailman footer that >> points to the list page. > I've decided the default footer isn't quite good enough. Your complaint? Aside: I just ran some stats. For my main list posting percentage has now declined to between 17% - 23% of the total subscriber base. This down from an 80% poster rate for a list that had 10% of the current subscriber base. Not sure what to make of it. > And the default mailman digest header is bad... Agreed. Then again I generally view digests as bad given the current state of MUAs and digest support. > I've gotten any number of complaints about how bloody long it is. I get a couple complaints a year about MIME on the text digests and that's about it. -- J C Lawrence claw at kanga.nu ---------(*) http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/ The pressure to survive and rhetoric may make strange bedfellows From ashley at pcraft.com Wed May 9 02:26:11 2001 From: ashley at pcraft.com (Ashley M. Kirchner) Date: Tue, 08 May 2001 18:26:11 -0600 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Call for suggestions References: Message-ID: <3AF88EA3.5C2524E0@pcraft.com> Chuq Von Rospach wrote: > And your average delay in delivery is -- how long? Generally, two to six at the most. If I don't clean out the queue because of nasty remote servers not working properly, it can go into a day or two. That's generally when I'll get a phone call because someone hasn't seen their msg gone through yet. > The real problem you're seeing is that Mailman 2.0 is singlethreaded. It > only does one thing at a time. Barry's fixing this for 2.1. If you can hold > on and deal with the delivery delays until then... I'm willing to wait and try, see how much it'll help. > -- going through the > bounce queues can clear up a significant amount of processing time, at very > little work. You just need to spend time watching the queues and logs and > clearing stuff out that gets in the way. I already have to do this. I have sendmail configured so that it holds something in queue for up to 24 hours (instead of the default 5 days). Mailman has been set to shut off delivery after 2 failures (I forgot what the default was). However, even with these two in place, with 20 messages coming in every hour, that starts to clog the queue pretty darned fast. > And -- what's your MTA? Sendmail? How are you configured? What's your batch > size? What are you doing for DNS resolution? I'll bet there are things you > can do to mailman to fix up stuff here, or to your delivery system, to speed > things up... These are all things I'm willing to entertain. You're right, there may be things that I can do now that will help. When I changed DNS resolution from a remote DNS server to localhost, that helped a great deal. When I told sendmail to start using .hoststat, that helped as well (it didn't need to try to resolve every time anymore). Has anyone written an administrator's guide to optimizing mailman? -- H | Hi, I'm currently out of my mind. Please leave a message. BEEEEP! +-------------------------------------------------------------------- Ashley M. Kirchner . 303.442.6410 x130 Director of Internet Operations / SysAdmin . 800.441.3873 x130 Photo Craft Laboratories, Inc. . 3550 Arapahoe Ave, #6 http://www.pcraft.com ..... . . . Boulder, CO 80303, U.S.A. From joe at LADWP.net Wed May 9 02:55:00 2001 From: joe at LADWP.net (Joe Copeland) Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 17:55:00 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Installing mailman on RH7.1 Message-ID: <014101c0d822$aca29e00$0a01a8c0@joecopeland.net> Hi, I'm installing Mailman from the tarball off of list.org and am having trouble getting the URL http://www.deangelus.com/mailman/admin/test to work. "Test" is the name of a test list I created with ./newlist. RH7.1's disto of Apache runs with the group set to apache (user id nubmber 48). I didn't realize that the first time I tried to install it but I do now. So I reinstalled. I did the following as the user mailman make clean ./configure --with-cgi-gid=48 make install. I'm still having problems getting mailman to work. I believe I followed all the instructions for installing mailman properly. I think I may be having a problem with the Apache configuration. Can someone give me some clues on how to properly set apaches configuration directives for my virtual host www.deangelus.com. Here's what I got in my httpd.conf file. ServerName www.deangelus.com ServerAlias deangelus.com DocumentRoot /var/www/deangelus.com/public_html ErrorLog /var/www/deangelus.com/error_log CustomLog /var/www/deangelus.com/access common ScriptAlias /mailman/ /home/mailman/cgi-bin/ Alias /pipermail/ /home/mailman/archives/public/ Allow from all Options ExecCGI Is this correct?? I'm winging it here and it's not working. Thanks, Joe From morris at unc.edu Wed May 9 03:04:39 2001 From: morris at unc.edu (Joe Morris) Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 21:04:39 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time) Subject: [Mailman-Users] 2.0.5 issues persist on RH70 Message-ID: Thanks for the quick fix for the bug found in one of the Python scripts. I downloaded the new tarball and have run into numeours problems. 1. All files installed usring "make install" as root. Is that right? Configure picks up the mailman ID and I'm not overrriding it or anything like that. 2. I run check_perms and I get a thumbs up on everything--no problems. 3. I chown -R mailman /home/mailman. 4. Rerun check_perms and it finds 11 problems all related to files that are not set-gid. Why did it return differently this time after I set the owner of all files to mailman?!? 5. I get nothing at all back from any listname-request alias for any list. Nothing in the error logs and mail log on the host shows the message was received and delivered to the problem without error. I'm totally stumped. What kind of debugging can I turn on? Did some other bugs work their way into the 2.0.5 code? _______________________________________________________ Joe Morris http://www.ibiblio.org/morris Web Systems Manager, ATN http://help.unc.edu UNC-Chapel Hill http://www.unc.edu From morris at unc.edu Wed May 9 03:20:03 2001 From: morris at unc.edu (Joe Morris) Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 21:20:03 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time) Subject: [Mailman-Users] 2.0.5 issues persist on RH70 (corrected) Message-ID: [Sorry for the horrible spelling mistakes on the first try there] Thanks for the quick fix for the bug found in one of the Python scripts. I downloaded the new tarball and have run into numerous problems. 1. All files installed using "make install" are set as owner root. Is that right? Configure picks up the mailman ID and I'm not overriding it or anything like that. 2. I run check_perms and I get a thumbs up on everything--no problems. 3. I chown -R mailman /home/mailman. 4. Rerun check_perms and it finds 11 problems all related to files that are not set-gid. Why did it return differently this time after I set the owner of all files to mailman?!? 5. I get nothing at all back from any listname-request alias for any list. Nothing in the error logs and the mail log on the host shows the message was received and delivered to the program without error. I'm totally stumped. What kind of debugging can I turn on? Did some other bugs work their way into the 2.0.5 code? _______________________________________________________ Joe Morris http://www.ibiblio.org/morris Web Systems Manager, ATN http://help.unc.edu UNC-Chapel Hill http://www.unc.edu From tib at tigerknight.org Wed May 9 03:25:01 2001 From: tib at tigerknight.org (Tib) Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 18:25:01 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem with mailinglist/archives. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I found the problem and was able to solve it: when I ran the arch command to import the old archives of the list that got moved to my machine, I ran it as root - and it set all the rwx permissions correctly, but failed to set the ownership settings correctly (owned by root rather than owned by mailman). After fixing this, it works again just fine. Lord praise the error log file :] To speed up changing the permissions correctly, I wrote a little script to handle it. it should work for any list you want. I've attached the script I made, feel free to put it in the bin directory. Th script will set ownerships to 'mailman:mail' (or mailman:mailman on the index.html link files) in the private archive area of whatever list you specify. This script should work without any problems on all basic installations of mailman. If you have special group, user, or path settings that deviate from the install defaults, double check this script before using :] hope it's useful to someone else too. -------------- next part -------------- #!/bin/sh echo "What list would you like to fix the ownerships on: " read listname for file in `find ~mailman/archives/private/$listname|grep -v index.html` do chown mailman:mail $file done for file2 in `find /home/mailman/archives/private/$listname|grep index.html` do chown mailman:mailman $file2 done From tib at tigerknight.org Wed May 9 03:27:01 2001 From: tib at tigerknight.org (Tib) Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 18:27:01 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Mailman-Users] argh!! more problems Message-ID: For some reason, the config.db file of the list previously in question keeps being set to an ownership of 'nobody'. help? Tib From dmick at utopia.West.Sun.COM Wed May 9 03:37:28 2001 From: dmick at utopia.West.Sun.COM (Dan Mick) Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 18:37:28 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Mailman-Users] argh!! more problems Message-ID: <200105090137.SAA23264@utopia.West.Sun.COM> > For some reason, the config.db file of the list previously in question keeps > being set to an ownership of 'nobody'. help? The web server writes it. This is not a problem, because it's owned by group mailman, and write permissions are granted to group mailman. From pug at pug.net Wed May 9 05:03:03 2001 From: pug at pug.net (Pug Bainter) Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 22:03:03 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] 2.0.5 issues persist on RH70 (corrected) In-Reply-To: ; from morris@unc.edu on Tue, May 08, 2001 at 09:20:03PM -0400 References: Message-ID: <20010508220303.A20537@stardock.pug.net> Joe Morris (morris at unc.edu) said something that sounded like: > 4. Rerun check_perms and it finds 11 problems all related to files that > are not set-gid. Why did it return differently this time after I set the > owner of all files to mailman?!? Because for security purposes the OS removes the set-gid bit after a chown or chgrp. Ciao, -- Pug Bainter | AMD, Inc. System Engineer, MTS | Mail Stop 625 Pug.Bainter at amd.com | pug at pug.net | 5900 E. Ben White Blvd Phone: (512) 602-0364 | Fax: (512) 602-6970 | Austin, TX 78741 Note: The views may not reflect my employers, or even my own for that matter. From alex at phred.org Wed May 9 05:26:16 2001 From: alex at phred.org (alex wetmore) Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 20:26:16 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Mailman-Users] Call for suggestions In-Reply-To: <3AF87AC2.F6A9BFCF@pcraft.com> Message-ID: <20010508202108.K60925-100000@phred.org> On Tue, 8 May 2001, Ashley M. Kirchner wrote: > Load balancing. I prefer having one server running mailman and having all > the lists on it, however this means that machine will also get hit pretty hard > when several lists get to receive/send messages. Most of the pain is in sending the messages. For every message recieved you are probably sending 500-1000 outbound messages (assuming reasonably popular lists). Why not just build multiple MTAs and round robin between them. I'm not sure if Mailman looks up the MX record for the SMTPHOST, but if not it wouldn't be hard to change the code to randomly select between multiple SMTPHOSTs. If you have the budget you could just throw the MTAs behind something like a Cisco LocalDirector which handles the round robinning for you. How big do you think your lists will be? A single box with a single disk should be able to handle 1 million + outgoing messages a day with few problems. alex From tib at tigerknight.org Wed May 9 05:46:19 2001 From: tib at tigerknight.org (Tib) Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 20:46:19 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Mailman-Users] argh!! more problems In-Reply-To: <200105090137.SAA23264@utopia.West.Sun.COM> Message-ID: Actually it does present a problem because this is the error it generates: May 08 18:26:01 2001 qrunner(7593): Traceback (most recent call last): May 08 18:26:01 2001 qrunner(7593): File "/home/mailman/cron/qrunner", line 278, in ? May 08 18:26:01 2001 qrunner(7593): kids = main(lock) May 08 18:26:01 2001 qrunner(7593): File "/home/mailman/cron/qrunner", line 234, in main May 08 18:26:01 2001 qrunner(7593): mlist = open_list(listname) May 08 18:26:01 2001 qrunner(7593): File "/home/mailman/cron/qrunner", line 174, in open_list May 08 18:26:01 2001 qrunner(7593): mlist = MailList.MailList(listname, lock=0) May 08 18:26:01 2001 qrunner(7593): File "/home/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 79, in __init__ May 08 18:26:01 2001 qrunner(7593): self.Load() May 08 18:26:01 2001 qrunner(7593): File "/home/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 877, in Load May 08 18:26:01 2001 qrunner(7593): dict, e = self.__load(dbfile) May 08 18:26:01 2001 qrunner(7593): File "/home/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 854, in __load May 08 18:26:01 2001 qrunner(7593): fp = open(dbfile) May 08 18:26:01 2001 qrunner(7593): IOError : [Errno 13] Permission denied: '/home/mailman/lists/thelist/config.db' and this is the setup of the file itself: [root at unica logs]# ls -l '/home/mailman/lists/thelist/config.db' -rw-rw---- 1 nobody mail 16875 May 8 18:16 /home/mailman/lists/thelist/config.db Ideas? Tib On Tue, 8 May 2001, Dan Mick wrote: > > > For some reason, the config.db file of the list previously in question keeps > > being set to an ownership of 'nobody'. help? > > The web server writes it. This is not a problem, because it's owned > by group mailman, and write permissions are granted to group mailman. > > > ------------------------------------------------------ > Mailman-Users maillist - Mailman-Users at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users > From chuqui at plaidworks.com Wed May 9 06:00:49 2001 From: chuqui at plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach) Date: Tue, 08 May 2001 21:00:49 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Call for suggestions In-Reply-To: <3AF88913.BE54E08B@pcraft.com> Message-ID: On 5/8/01 5:02 PM, "Ashley M. Kirchner" wrote: > a) NFS I wouldn't even try. > or b) If mailman has a way of sending a signal out when something changes on > the .db files No, it doesn't. Doesn't necessarily need to. > What comes to mind with this last option though is, what happens if > something changes on a remote server? Now the master has to sync up... Oy > vey! I think I just dug my own grave. Here's what I'd do. Take two machines. Machine 1 is foo.com. That's the "official" machine all of the lsits on. It' where the list web site and databases live. It's the only place where data is modified. Give is a host alias of smtpout.foo.com and admin.foo.com Machine 2 is, say, smtpout2.foo.com. It has a mailman system on it as well that's a duplicate of your main machine. Set your DNS so your MX records show: Foo.com: IN MX 5 smtpout.foo.com smtpout2.foo.com What this'll do is cause the two machines to have equal ranking for acceptance. Well behaving mail systems will pick one at random, so they should accept incoming mail roughly 50-50. Set up smtpout2 so that any email that has to be processed by the main list server is forward to the appropriate address via the admin.foo.com hostname, which isn't tied to the shared MX record. That'd include all of the -admin addresses, for instance. Set up smtpout so that every so often (say, 15 minutes), the ~mailman/lists subdirectory gets rsynced to smtpout. That causes all of the databases on the main machine to be cloned out to your slave. IMHO, you ought to ship it to a temporary directory and a script that's smart enough to recognize mailman locks would to the actual move into production, but that's up to you. You have to make sure all of the sendmail aliases point to the right place on both machines. Adding a new list is an exercise in anal detail-watching, but technically not challenging. You now have two machines with clones of the lists on one, and only one system updating the data. The clone is never updated, so you don't worry about syncing data between the two. And mail will more or less be split across the two, except for admin mail where it has to go to the main machine (if you REALLY want to be fancy, add a third machine, have two machines dedicated to sending out data, both clones, and one dedicated to ONLY database management and update and the web pages. That can be done by tweaking the MX records differently, and is probably easier than doing two machines, actually, because the load balancing is clearer) One thing you CAN'T do in this setup is digests, so you'll need to disable them. Half of your messages are on one machine, half on the other, and there's no way to merge them into a consolidated digest (or maybe there is, it's an exercise left to the reader) One note: your archives are scrod in this format. I'm sure you could sync all this bac togheter, if you really wanted, but what I'd do is the "subscribe an archive address to the list" method and not attempt to run archiving through mailman. This is off the top of my head. I've probably missed something, but it should work with some work... From chuqui at plaidworks.com Wed May 9 06:26:26 2001 From: chuqui at plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach) Date: Tue, 08 May 2001 21:26:26 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Call for suggestions In-Reply-To: <3AF88EA3.5C2524E0@pcraft.com> Message-ID: On 5/8/01 5:26 PM, "Ashley M. Kirchner" wrote: > Generally, two to six at the most. A few things to check... Make sure your batch size is small: SMTP_MAX_RCPTS = 10 Set your qrunner proc to live longer, and extend the lock life: QRUNNER_LOCK_LIFETIME = hours(10) QRUNNER_PROCESS_LIFETIME = minutes(15) QRUNNER_MAX_MESSAGES = 300 Set these to 20 hours, 2 hours and 50000 Here's why: qrunner doesn't process the queue FIFO. Instead, it opens up the directory and processes the entries sequentially. This implies that if you get a lot of stuff in the queue, qrunner will quit after 15 minutes and start over. As qrunner processes stuff, it deletes those files. So as new stuff comes in, they get stored as close to the start of the directory inode as possible, so when qrunner quits and restarts, if it hasn't processed everything in the directory, it starts over with newer stuff, leaving older stuff deep into the inode -- and it'll never GET to that stuff deep in the inode until the system quiets down and it's given a change to catch up. That means something could literally stay in the queue forever if the system never slows down enough to allow qrunner to clean up. By extending qrunner's lifetime, you're allowing it to go much deeper into the inode. It's STILL not FIFO (and this is why replies get seen before messages being replied to, and why digests have messages scrambles; Barry and I have talked at length about this and the queueing should be FIFO in 2.1....), but you're a lot less likely to have a given message buried in the queue for hours. It doesn't fix the problem -- but significantly (from my system'ss operations) reduces it, and limits the impact when it does happen. If you find you still have stuff waiting around -- after you make this change, if you're still running 2 hours behind, extend it to 3 hours. But be aware that if for some reason qrunner decides to wedge, you're locking up your system for longer periods of time. Keeping an eye on things is good. If you are using sendmail, consider moving to postfix, where you can configure the system safely for deferring DNS lookups. That significantly speeds up mailman's ability to queue messages. Sendmail has the same option (DeliveryMode=defer) but you can't use it, because it disabled anti-spam checks and turns you into an open relay. Grr. If you're running anything less than sendmail 8.11 -- upgrade, and spend some time configuring subdirectories to reduce I/O load and contention in the directory structures (QueueDirectory=/var/spool/mqueue/q* where * = at least 5 directories, with appropriate df/qf/xf subdirs). If you aren't running DNS *on* that local machine, set up a caching-only name server. You'll see a significant increase in yor performance by removing the network interactions, even if you're dealing with a DNS server on your local LAN. >> -- going through the >> bounce queues can clear up a significant amount of processing time, at very >> little work. You just need to spend time watching the queues and logs and >> clearing stuff out that gets in the way. > > I already have to do this. I have sendmail configured so that it holds Right here, I'm not talking about sendmail queues, but your mailman qfile directory, and watching your ~mailman/logs files (especially bounces) for continuung unresolved bounces. Every bounce you get ends up going through qrunner -- and mailman won't successfully process all of them, and isn't very good at telling you that. Lots of stuff disappears silently unless you're watching the logs, but we haven't figured out how best to report this stuff without sending so much crap admins throw it out... > Has anyone written an administrator's guide to optimizing mailman? No. No time. But the above ought to help. Maybe once 2.1 comes out and I have time to beat it up, but since so much is changing between 2.0 and 2.1, writing one now makes no sense. My big site is probably one of the top 10 mailman sites -- I may be 2nd largest after Sourceforge, but I'm not positive. I'm still investigating how to optimize things, but to be honest, since I'm still running sendmail and can't use defer mode, it makes no sense to fix anything else until I fix that, because that is SUCH a huge slowdown it needs to be resolved first, but that means bringing up and figuring out postfix (I won't use qmail), and give the size of my installation, I have to be careful about that (I'm waiting for a machine to come back from the shop, and I'll install it there. Once I'm comfortable there, it'll go on my small mailman machine. Once I'm comfortable there, it'll go on my big one... That could take me two weeks, it could take me two months...) But there's LOTs that can be done to installations to speed them up before building clones and slaves and all that stuff. I wouldn't even THINK of cloning until I had postifx fully optimized, for instance. If you don't believe me, kill your sendmail daemon, start it up again with "-bd -ODeliveryMode=defer" and compare how fast a message is queued in defer mode against your normal sendmail setup. Mind is roughly twice as fast, and since my primary delay is how fast qrunner can queue, that ONE change will almost double my capacity -- once I can get it in there safely. And, from what I can tell, postfix is MUCH faster than sendmail in general. But beyond that, if you're running sendmail 8.9 or before -- you're wasting a lot of performance by being downrev. So you have two SIMPLE upgrades (to sendmail 8.11 with a reconfigure of the queuedirs, then to postfix) that are a lot less work than all this cloning stuff. And by tuning how your MTA works, adding a local DNS, tweaking qrunner and clearing queues and fixing bounces ands tuff, you can really add capacity in an existing machine. And 2.1, with the multiple queues, will fix the key perfoormance issue with mailman 2.0, too -- and take advantage of all this other stuff as well. All without hardware or hacks. From dcas at tpg.com.au Wed May 9 06:49:38 2001 From: dcas at tpg.com.au (David Casamento) Date: Wed, 09 May 2001 14:49:38 +1000 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Duplicate emails sent out Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010509143733.0c4fe4d0@pop3.norton.antivirus> Hi, I am having a problem with one of my mailing lists sending out up to 130 copies of the mail same mail to each recipient. Other mailing lists on the same server have no problem at all and I have looked into the problem and can not see why it is happening. One thing i have noticed is that in the logs/posts file, there are numerous entires like this. Apr 26 13:00:07 2001 (2490) post to LISTNAME from SENDERSEMAIL, size=2642, failure=67 Apr 26 13:00:07 2001 (2490) post to LISTNAME from SENDERSEMAIL, size=2642, success Apr 26 13:00:07 2001 (2490) post to LISTNAME from SENDERSEMAIL, size=2642, failure=2 Apr 26 13:00:07 2001 (2490) post to LISTNAME from SENDERSEMAIL, size=2642, success Apr 26 13:00:07 2001 (2490) post to LISTNAME from SENDERSEMAIL, size=2642, failure=2 Apr 26 13:00:07 2001 (2490) post to LISTNAME from SENDERSEMAIL, size=2642, success Apr 26 13:00:07 2001 (2490) post to LISTNAME from SENDERSEMAIL, size=2642, failure=2 Apr 26 13:00:07 2001 (2490) post to LISTNAME from SENDERSEMAIL, size=2642, success I am not sure what this posts file actually means, and what these failures are. In the mailing lists that do send out correctly, there is not many entires in the post file, and the size of the list that works correctly is massive compared to the ones that fail. Here is some output from the Defaults.py file DELIVERY_MODULE = 'Sendmail' SMTP_MAX_RCPTS = 100 MAX_DELIVERY_THREADS = 0 And we are using mailman-2.0.3 Thanks very much for any help you are able to give me. From chuqui at plaidworks.com Wed May 9 06:57:59 2001 From: chuqui at plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach) Date: Tue, 08 May 2001 21:57:59 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Call for suggestions In-Reply-To: <24983.989367502@kanga.nu> Message-ID: On 5/8/01 5:18 PM, "J C Lawrence" wrote: > If I were to go for a first order attempt at reliability/scalability > I'd be tempted to do something like > Outbound list mail is not delivered to the local MTA but to a set > of remote MTAs hidden behind a DNS round robin The problem is that with mailman 2.0, the limiting factor is the single-threadedness of qrunner -- it can only process one message at a time, and throwing multiple MTAs for delivery won't help, because it can only feed one at a time. My MTA on my big Mailman machine is basically idle all the time, because I can't feed it fast enough to make it break a sweat. > Spool on the MTA systems is on a battery backed RUPP Silicon disk > (10Gig units IIRC, not cheap). Big RAM heavy machines capable of > running mid thousands of simultaneous queue runners (under QMail > as happens). Funny you should mention this. I've been researchign some of this myself recently. There's a problem here -- LAN/WAN saturation. It doesn't matter how fast your machine is if you saturate your 100baseT (which it looks like I'm doing on my really-big machine -- we're working to get a quad ethernet configured into it as we speak). You can build a really fast machine, but if you can only outflow 12 megabytes a second, all the RAM disk in the universe won't help -- you still get 12 megabytes a second on 100baseT. And if it feeds a slower net -- you're only as fast as your slowest piece... This is one reason I'm working on a design I'm calling 'attack of the killer smurfs" -- racks of small, cheap, fast boxes that ONLY deliver e-mail, each with its own CPU, memory, disk and 100baseT or gigabit interface. Because fr what it costs to build a really big, fast muther machine, you can rack up a dozen small, cheap machines each with its own net interface -- and if you can hook that up to a set of multiple OC-3's... But then you have t have a system to get the mail out to the smurfs -- and standard systems just won't cut that... > Domain routing based on historical MX profiling partitioned the > spool base and the resultant spool entries are smarthosted out to > a pool of delivery servers (more RUPP disks), with the really slow > MXes being pulled out and dumped on the black hole box (constantly > overwhalmed and struggling to deliver mail to boxes that were > mostly not there). I'm just starting to investigate that. I'm seriously thinking of dedicating a subset of my smurfs to handling defined "slow" domains. I also run a long time-between-retries (6 hours), so slow/dead domains don't overloy slow stuff down -- I find that's a reasonable alternative to moving stuff between queues and having "bog" queues and all of that stuff.... > Check your RAM usage patterns. Watch swap. Add RAM if indicated. Watch EVERYTHING. Figure out where your bottlenecks are, not where you think they might be. And IMHO, the most important thing you can do is learn how to tell at a glance when the system is running well, because that's how you learn to figure out when the system *isn't* running right, and you know how it ought to look like, so you're better at finding what's wrong. I *always* have windows up on my monitor machine running things like top, se (if you're running solaris), and scrolls of the logs. On one window I always do cd ~mailman/logs foreach I (*) tail -f $I & end kill %4 ; kills the USENET log, which is too chatty and gets in the way) So I can see at a glance what's going on. And after you watch fro a while, you'll see trends of what's going wrong, and can tell even from across the room when the logs look 'wrong' (like endless qrunner lock losts, which indicates qrunner might have wedged) > You are *NOT* CPU bound at this point. You may be disk bound if > your disks are really slow, syslog is on the same spindle as > spool, and/or you have syslog configured to sync mail log writes. Minimize your syslog writing -- good point. The critical delays are MTA, DNS, qrunner single-threading, and then network. On mailman, I've never seen it overload disk, and it's just not that RAM intense. > RAM and disk bandwidth are your enemies at this point. I disagree, actually. You'll run out of network before either, IMHO. From chuqui at plaidworks.com Wed May 9 07:00:54 2001 From: chuqui at plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach) Date: Tue, 08 May 2001 22:00:54 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Duplicate emails sent out In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20010509143733.0c4fe4d0@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: On 5/8/01 9:49 PM, "David Casamento" wrote: > I am having a problem with one of my mailing lists sending out up to 130 > copies of the mail same mail to each recipient. Other mailing lists on the > same server have no problem at all and I have looked into the problem and > can not see why it is happening. First thing to do -- examine the Received lines on these dupes to see where they're coming from. Is some site out there sending you multiple copies? Are you for some reason queueing the same message multiple times? Or is the same queue file being processed multiple times? You have to find the source of the duplicates before you can fix it. Since you say only one list is having this problem, I"ll bet you have someone subscribed with a broken mailer who's bouncing back mail as the original poster -- there are broken MTAs that consider that a valid bounce message for some reason. From chuqui at plaidworks.com Wed May 9 07:02:08 2001 From: chuqui at plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach) Date: Tue, 08 May 2001 22:02:08 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Duplicate emails sent out In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20010509143733.0c4fe4d0@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: On 5/8/01 9:49 PM, "David Casamento" wrote: Oops. Missed a few things. > Here is some output from the Defaults.py file > > DELIVERY_MODULE = 'Sendmail' Don't use Sendmail. Use DELIVERY_MODULE = 'SMTPDirect' Sendmail has glitches and security issues. From chuqui at plaidworks.com Wed May 9 07:07:42 2001 From: chuqui at plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach) Date: Tue, 08 May 2001 22:07:42 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: remove this? In-Reply-To: <32726.989367762@kanga.nu> Message-ID: On 5/8/01 5:22 PM, "J C Lawrence" wrote: >> I've decided the default footer isn't quite good enough. > > Your complaint? Minor ones: _______________________________________________ sharks mailing list sharks at hockeyfanz.com http://www.hockeyfanz.com/mailman/listinfo/sharks Neither of the URLs is defined. Better would be: ___________________________________________________________________________ This message was sent to you through the sharks at hockeyfanz.com mailing list Post to this list: sharks at hockeyfanz.com Unsubscribe and get help: http://www.hockeyfanz.com/mailman/listinfo/sharks That's still rough, but I find I have JUST enough people na?ve enough to not know why those links are there that I want to add signposts. We're assuming they know what those items are for, and that's not really a safe assumption. > Aside: I just ran some stats. For my main list posting percentage > has now declined to between 17% - 23% of the total subscriber base. > This down from an 80% poster rate for a list that had 10% of the > current subscriber base. > > Not sure what to make of it. Those are still REALLY high compared to most lists. >> And the default mailman digest header is bad... > > Agreed. Then again I generally view digests as bad given the > current state of MUAs and digest support. Won't get into the politics of digests. People like them. But some parts of the digest preamble ought to be in the footer, or simply gone. I couldn't say offhand how I'll redo it -- haven't decided. From claw at kanga.nu Wed May 9 07:46:53 2001 From: claw at kanga.nu (J C Lawrence) Date: Tue, 08 May 2001 22:46:53 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: remove this? In-Reply-To: Message from Chuq Von Rospach of "Tue, 08 May 2001 22:07:42 PDT." References: Message-ID: <7240.989387213@kanga.nu> On Tue, 08 May 2001 22:07:42 -0700 Chuq Von Rospach wrote: > On 5/8/01 5:22 PM, "J C Lawrence" wrote: >>> I've decided the default footer isn't quite good enough. >> Your complaint? > Minor ones: > _______________________________________________ > sharks mailing list > sharks at hockeyfanz.com > http://www.hockeyfanz.com/mailman/listinfo/sharks > Neither of the URLs is defined. Fair call. > That's still rough, but I find I have JUST enough people na?ve > enough to not know why those links are there that I want to add > signposts. We're assuming they know what those items are for, and > that's not really a safe assumption. There are times I just feel blessed. (Then I wake up) >> Aside: I just ran some stats. For my main list posting >> percentage has now declined to between 17% - 23% of the total >> subscriber base. This down from an 80% poster rate for a list >> that had 10% of the current subscriber base. >> >> Not sure what to make of it. > Those are still REALLY high compared to most lists. Yeah, they surprised me. I thought my percentages were down around half that (8%) until I did some stats on the archives. >>> And the default mailman digest header is bad... >> Agreed. Then again I generally view digests as bad given the >> current state of MUAs and digest support. > Won't get into the politics of digests. Ptui. I don't mind them as long as digest readers either never post, or they properly manage their Subject, and In-Reply-To:/References: headers in their replies. Sadly few do. Knowing the state of MUAs out there I can't entirely blame them. -- J C Lawrence claw at kanga.nu ---------(*) http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/ The pressure to survive and rhetoric may make strange bedfellows From dcas at tpg.com.au Wed May 9 07:57:02 2001 From: dcas at tpg.com.au (David Casamento) Date: Wed, 09 May 2001 15:57:02 +1000 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Duplicate emails sent out In-Reply-To: References: <5.1.0.14.2.20010509143733.0c4fe4d0@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010509155309.0c469340@pop3.norton.antivirus> From going through the mail logs on the server, I can see that the same message was sent to one person 76 times in one day and 33 times the next day, at which staged I deleted all the queue files in the qfiles directory and the mailouts stopped. The mail list has feature turned on that insists each post is authorised by a list administrator, and we only ever authorise the initial posting. So from what I can tell, my mailing list server is sending out all the dups. > > I am having a problem with one of my mailing lists sending out up to 130 > > copies of the mail same mail to each recipient. Other mailing lists on the > > same server have no problem at all and I have looked into the problem and > > can not see why it is happening. > >First thing to do -- examine the Received lines on these dupes to see where >they're coming from. Is some site out there sending you multiple copies? Are >you for some reason queueing the same message multiple times? Or is the same >queue file being processed multiple times? > >You have to find the source of the duplicates before you can fix it. Since >you say only one list is having this problem, I"ll bet you have someone >subscribed with a broken mailer who's bouncing back mail as the original >poster -- there are broken MTAs that consider that a valid bounce message >for some reason. > > > >------------------------------------------------------ >Mailman-Users maillist - Mailman-Users at python.org >http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users From chuqui at plaidworks.com Wed May 9 07:58:14 2001 From: chuqui at plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach) Date: Tue, 08 May 2001 22:58:14 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Duplicate emails sent out In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20010509155309.0c469340@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: On 5/8/01 10:57 PM, "David Casamento" wrote: > So from what I can tell, my mailing list server is sending out all the dups. But that doesn't tell you where they're coming from. Who's creating the duplicates? You? Or someone else? Until you figure that you, you won't really solve this problem. From lww at ictech.net Wed May 9 08:09:26 2001 From: lww at ictech.net (Bill Warner) Date: Wed, 09 May 2001 01:09:26 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: remove this? In-Reply-To: References: <30076.989364432@kanga.nu> Message-ID: <4.3.1.2.20010508214215.00bc95c0@pop.ictech.net> So, I lied about my previous post being my last, but on reflection perhaps some final comments are in order, or perhaps I just can't help myself... At 04:54 PM 5/8/01 -0700, Chuq Von Rospach wrote: >This issue comes up again and again, and I apologize in advance if I sound >(or sounded) grumpy about this I, too, apologize, especially to Chuq and J C, for being grumpy, or rude, but on my side of the fence this particular issue is costing me real money, which tends to make me cranky. Since upgrading my Mailman installation to 2.x these headers have been the direct cause of new tech support calls, everyone of which costs money. In the end, I think that any disagreement we may have over this issue is actually philosophical rather than technical. Personally, I am a firm believer in the guiding principle of the X Window System which always seeks to "provide mechanism, not policy." If you apply that principle to this issue, then you conclude that Mailman should implement the mechanism for sending RFC2369 headers, but the policy decision of which, if any, of them should go out on a particular list should be left to the list owner. It's obvious that many here disagree with that design philosophy. So be it. It has also been said that because this is Open Source, I already have the ability to control this header behavior by hacking the source. True enough, and I've already done that for my installation. But I submit that deliberately making this kind of thing harder than it has to be, a kind of "Father Knows Best" attitude, is antithetical to the roots of todays Open Source movement. Unfortunately, if you don't buy the "mechanism, not policy" approach then you probably won't buy this argument either. Of course, through all of this the Mailman developers are free to develop as they see fit, and there is no requirement that I like the way they do it. Conversely, there is no requirement that they, or anyone on this list, like the questions I ask about their product. >But nobody is under any obligation to >make that easy, to help you do it, or to give you instructions. Of course not. Neither are you under any obligation to reply to the question in the first place. It has always seemed childish to me for someone to reply to a message only to say, in essence, "I know the answer to your question but I'm not going to tell you because you are either not worthy enough in some way, or I think you are going to do something silly with the information." Why not just answer the question, or ignore it? >Same with hacking list-*. The general consensus among those of us who've >put time into understanding this issue is that it's a very good thing for >the long-term development of mail list technologies. I don't disagree with that. >Short term, it's at best a minor irritant, That, I strongly disagree with. It may be a minor irritant to you, but it is much more than that here. >and that's only to people with cruddy mail clients (consider >it an incentive to upgrade to soemthing decent). Unfortunately, the people I have to deal with don't see it that way. They don't want anything to do with upgrades or reconfigurations. As far as they are concerned this happened because of something that I did (upgrading Mailman), and they pay me $19.95/month, so I damn well better fix it. While the customer is not always right, you sometimes have to pretend that they are. >You're welcome to disagree -- but not demand that we help you do something I apologize if you felt I was demanding anything. That was not my intent. >I get a little grumpy when people wander in telling me how things ought to >work when they've never been under the hood of a piece of email... It's really not productive to try to guess some ones background based on one or two posts to a mailing list. Just because I don't have the time to read mailman-users everyday, or hunt down every RFC that impacts it's development, or spend quite enough time to track down Mailman/Handlers/CookHeaders.py, doesn't mean that I have "never been under the hood of a piece of email..." So, please, lets not get into a pissing contest. [Oh dear me, I went and said the secret file name on the list, now everyone has the dangerous knowledge of how to get rid of the pesky RFC "mandated" List-* headers. Whatever shall we do now?] Ahem, sorry (sort of) about that, but I really couldn't resist. I know, childish at best... >Implementing list-* is investing in future technologies; >footer data is managing today's users. Exactly! My problem is that I have to manage today's users as cost effectively as possible, or I go out of business, and while I really do applaud the developers for investing in those future technologies by implementing RFC2369, I simply can't afford to have the cost of that investment coming directly out of my bank account. So given that reality, what's so wrong with asking for an option that allows me to more easily control this trade-off? I guess that's a rhetorical question, but as far as I can tell the only thing wrong with asking this particular question on this list is that people here are already entrenched in their positions on this issue. In that case I highly recommend that the next time this issue comes up, as it surely will (which might be some kind of a clue), those who are tired of it, or offended by it, just ignore it. Finally, my sincere thanks to all those who provided genuinely helpful replies off-list. We now return you to your regularly scheduled program about how to get Mailman to run on the Linux flavor-of-the-day... --Bill From chuqui at plaidworks.com Wed May 9 08:32:54 2001 From: chuqui at plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach) Date: Tue, 08 May 2001 23:32:54 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: remove this? In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20010508214215.00bc95c0@pop.ictech.net> Message-ID: On 5/8/01 11:09 PM, "Bill Warner" wrote: > Since upgrading my Mailman installation to > 2.x these headers have been the direct cause of new tech support calls, > everyone of which costs money. So solve the real problem -- which is create a FAQ item telling people how to fix mail clients, not to rip stuff out of the system that will, in the long run, make it easier for users to use the system. It's a short term investment for long-term gain, but if people refuse to adopt the headers, the client writers won't feel the need to adopt them, and you'll spend your time walking users through subscription issues instead of having them automated in the client. > policy decision of which, if any, of them > should go out on a particular list should be left to the list owner. I disagree. Policy decisions should be made by people who can make them in an informed way, not out of ignorance. X windows lets its users do REALLY STUPID AND DESTRUCTIVE things, simply because they want to. "because they want to" isn't a good enough answer, or else we ought to just give everyone root access on a computer, and if they want to "rm -rf /", well, we should let them. There are some actions and decisions you have to know what you're doing before we should allow to happen. And in this specific case, there's a larger issue as well -- if sites turn this stuff off widely, it discourages their adoption into the clients, which screws over the overall adoption. So you may want to turn it off, but that causes problems for the internet-at-large in the future by discouraging adoption of these standards. Now -- again, if you want to do it, be my guest. It's your system. But when you start asking us to do it, or make it easy, or show you how, that's a different matter -- because while you might think it's better for your site, that's at odds with the overall goal, and there are bigger issues that take precedence here (IMHO). Again, short term investment, minor pain. Long term gain, long term advantage. But that gain happens only if we do everything we can to encourage adoption, and the mail client authors adopt as well. That won't happen if people can easily dump this stuff, because they're new, different and people think they're therefore icky -- and don't do the research or want to. It's like cough medicine. It tastes rotten going down, but long term, it makes you feel better. Sometimes, you take a little pain now for the future. IMHO, this is one. I'm firmly against anything that makes it easy to remove these lines, including ANY hints in any FAQs or documentation. I don't believe Barry's quite that hard-ass about it, and it's his call, but at some point, we have to say "this is worth having, and someone has to take the first step". > But I submit that > deliberately making this kind of thing harder than it has to be, a kind of > "Father Knows Best" attitude, Sure. You know why? Because many times Father DOES. > is antithetical to the roots of todays Open > Source movement. Sorry, don't buy that at all. I don't see that as any part of open source. You have the right to make any change you want to open source, but it's generally the experts who write this stuff, and they should write it based on their expertise -- and that means making philosophical decisions like this. You have the right to change it personally, to argue with the experts, or to throw it out and use someone else's software with a more compatible philosophy, but the experts do the work, and they get final say on what is and isn't right. > It has always seemed childish to me for > someone to reply to a message only to say, in essence, "I know the answer > to your question but I'm not going to tell you because you are either not > worthy enough in some way, or I think you are going to do something silly > with the information." Why not just answer the question, or ignore it? We did answer the question -- just not with the answer you wanted. If we ignore it, it just gets asked again, louder, with a "why are you idiots ignoring me?" whine attached... > It's really not productive to try to guess some ones background based on > one or two posts to a mailing list. Just because I don't have the time to > read mailman-users everyday, or hunt down every RFC that impacts it's Just as it's not productive to try to guess how software like mailman "ought" to work without doing the research needed to know why decisions were made... > I know, childish at best... Yes, very. From mailman at vo.cnchost.com Wed May 9 08:45:37 2001 From: mailman at vo.cnchost.com (JC Dill) Date: Tue, 08 May 2001 23:45:37 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: remove this? In-Reply-To: References: <4.3.1.2.20010508214215.00bc95c0@pop.ictech.net> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010508234213.02d6fa50@pop3.vo.cnchost.com> On 11:32 PM 5/8/01, Chuq Von Rospach wrote: >It's like cough medicine. It tastes rotten going down, but long term, it >makes you feel better. Sometimes, you take a little pain now for the future. This is similar to the pain mail server admins (and their associated support staff) went through when we (the Internet as a whole) had to go through the pains of closing open-relay mail servers following the spam deluge problems in the mid 90s. Closing open relays was a PITA, but it was necessary to move on to a more secure and reliable mail delivery system. Adapting to intelligent mailing list headers is a similar (although less urgent) problem. Take the high road and be one of the leaders in making these changes that are "for the good of the Internet". jc From claw at kanga.nu Wed May 9 09:15:22 2001 From: claw at kanga.nu (J C Lawrence) Date: Wed, 09 May 2001 00:15:22 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: remove this? In-Reply-To: Message from Bill Warner of "Wed, 09 May 2001 01:09:26 CDT." <4.3.1.2.20010508214215.00bc95c0@pop.ictech.net> References: <30076.989364432@kanga.nu> <4.3.1.2.20010508214215.00bc95c0@pop.ictech.net> Message-ID: <31393.989392522@kanga.nu> On Wed, 09 May 2001 01:09:26 -0500 Bill Warner wrote: > In the end, I think that any disagreement we may have over this > issue is actually philosophical rather than technical. > Personally, I am a firm believer in the guiding principle of the X > Window System which always seeks to "provide mechanism, not > policy." If you apply that principle to this issue, then you > conclude that Mailman should implement the mechanism for sending > RFC2369 headers, but the policy decision of which, if any, of them > should go out on a particular list should be left to the list > owner. It's obvious that many here disagree with that design > philosophy. So be it. There is a critical difference. X does allow you and even makes it very easy to do damned near anything you want, encluding being incredibly stupid and making bad decisions. In a general light, this is not a Bad Thing. One critical aspect however is that should you do one of those stupid things you only break/damage yourself (person running the broken app). A perfect example is X server grabs. With mail that's not the case. One change affects hundreds if not thousands or millions of people (we're getting lists of that size now). Yes, you can still do stupid things and write your own policies, but the system instead of being geared to allowing that, is instead geared to, "Make it easy for him to be a good netizen and hard for him to cause us pain.". There are too many other easy ways to cause pain on the 'net to go around making it easy for there to be more. > It has also been said that because this is Open Source, I already > have the ability to control this header behavior by hacking the > source. True enough, and I've already done that for my > installation. But I submit that deliberately making this kind of > thing harder than it has to be, a kind of "Father Knows Best" > attitude, is antithetical to the roots of todays Open Source > movement. If Father Really Knew Best, the source wouldn't be out there. > Unfortunately, if you don't buy the "mechanism, not policy" > approach then you probably won't buy this argument either. Actually I buy and agree with both arguments, I just consider them misplaced in this case. They work very well elsewhere. >> and that's only to people with cruddy mail clients (consider it >> an incentive to upgrade to soemthing decent). > Unfortunately, the people I have to deal with don't see it that > way. They don't want anything to do with upgrades or > reconfigurations. This sounds like your users need a FAQ. It also sounds like they may need some education -- often a Good Thing in any case (I occassionally invent excuses for it with my list members). There is a view that in the end the customer is always right and that the provider therefore must (or will) always end up doing what the customer wants. This is the view that places the customer as the 800lb gorilla and everyone/everything else as fleas sucking their blood. There is also a view that the provider vends the service and the customer either accepts it or goes somewhere else. Similarly, this is the vendor as the 800lb gorilla and everyone else, and in particular the customers, as fleas (picking the host to suck blood from). The truth is somewhere in the middle. Customer/vendor relationships are sympathetic not parasitic systems. While arguably the September that Never Ended has, as promised, Never Ended, in many ways it has actually begun to end. The great 'net unwashed are not the uncontrollably 'net-cluefree barbarians storming the castle they once were. 'Net life has improved, or, to be excessively patronising, they have shown a capacity for learning that was not at first obvious (the early days of Sept were bloody and few bothered to observe the delicacies among the storming hordes). I'm a believer in the relationship being balanced, and for that balance to lean in my direction as regards use of my time and effort. I am not gentle with my list members, but I do respect them and I will get their respect in turn or they will not post to my lists. I require them to follow my formatting rules, my quoting styles, to attribute all quoted text, to not use HTML, to not marketeer, to always be on topic, to always at least head towards signal, etc etc etc just to have their posts considered bor acceptance on my main list (other lists are more open). And they do. They have changed and learned, and conformed. And I've made damned certain that I've returned value to them for their effort, balancing the equation. You've got to balance the books in their eyes. The ROI must be very clear. > While the customer is not always right, you sometimes have to > pretend that they are. Sometimes you need to tell them they are wrong, why they re wrong, and that you are more than willing to help them build and run correct systems. Trade offs. The high road. Those that leave are typically (experience) better off gone, and (experience) their replacements are much more valuable and numerous. > [Oh dear me, I went and said the secret file name on the list, now > everyone has the dangerous knowledge of how to get rid of the > pesky RFC "mandated" List-* headers. Whatever shall we do now?] > Ahem, sorry (sort of) about that, but I really couldn't resist. I > know, childish at best... Hehn. A patch, instructions and considerable discussion of the area is already sitting in the archives and available by search engine. Not a question of censorship, but a question of encouragement or lack there of. > So given that reality, what's so wrong with asking for an option > that allows me to more easily control this trade-off? Nothing wrong with it at all. The only questionable aspect is in expecting or demanding a conciliatory response. I posit that you received considerable help in your quest; in pointers to the RFC, discusion of the header's values, and a pointer to the archives where lives a patch and prior discussion. The problem it seems is that that was not the help you though you were looking for... > I guess that's a rhetorical question, but as far as I can tell the > only thing wrong with asking this particular question on this list > is that people here are already entrenched in their positions on > this issue. We've been through three prior lengthy discussions of the area, two this year previous to yours (both much longer and more detailed). I'd look at it less as a question of entrenching as good certainty on a good decision well made and a fairly high burden of proof required of those questioning the area. I consider NFS to largely be a virus. Alone, that's an unsupported claim and I'm quite rightly laughed at for it. When I support it with arguments surrounding locking, file system semantics, fault resilience etc I've demonstrated some of the burden of proof (whatever your views on the validity of the arguments) to make the assertion credible (other's of course disagree). First you have to climb the mountain. > In that case I highly recommend that the next time this issue > comes up, as it surely will (which might be some kind of a clue), > those who are tired of it, or offended by it, just ignore it. Nahh, it should really go in the FAQ. That's what FAQs are for. > We now return you to your regularly scheduled program about how to > get Mailman to run on the Linux flavor-of-the-day... Yea gods save us. -- J C Lawrence claw at kanga.nu ---------(*) http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/ The pressure to survive and rhetoric may make strange bedfellows From Nigel.Metheringham at InTechnology.co.uk Wed May 9 10:51:17 2001 From: Nigel.Metheringham at InTechnology.co.uk (Nigel Metheringham) Date: Wed, 09 May 2001 09:51:17 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: remove this? In-Reply-To: Message from Bill Warner of "Tue, 08 May 2001 17:24:11 CDT." <4.3.1.2.20010508163649.00be3630@pop.ictech.net> Message-ID: lww at ictech.net said: > If and when MUAs make automated use of these headers as suggested by > the RFC, then it may be a good idea. But until then, I simply can't > afford the added tech support burden to teach every user how to make > this kind of config change to their particular client. It's hard > enough to keep their basic setting in order! ;-) Chicken & Egg or Egg & Chicken. Someone has to start. Until there is evidence that list headers are being used, MUA authors will not in general support them... and currently the only MUA I know of that does use them is exmh (and that has a couple of wrinkles I could do without). We probably also ought to use the List-* headers as part of the loop detection... and long term deprecate the X-beenthere - however judging by the number of mailman 1.x installs around and the amount of people with procmail filtering on that its likely to be a painful process. We do need to document the use of the headers and potentially have a means for disabling them... however I would very strongly suggest that this is not made easy - ie not a web config item, and if we do use List-* as part of the loop detection remember that people using it may screw themselves royally. If its a configurable my tendancy would be to put it in mm_cfg.py and ideally reset it on each upgrade. BTW for people wishing to strip these then it may be better to do this in MTA filtering - exim can handle this easily. I am strongly resisting the temptation to comment on the buns thread. Nigel. -- [ Nigel Metheringham Nigel.Metheringham at InTechnology.co.uk ] [ Phone: +44 1423 850000 Fax +44 1423 858866 ] [ - Comments in this message are my own and not ITO opinion/policy - ] From bryan at raxel.com Wed May 9 14:30:38 2001 From: bryan at raxel.com (Bryan Gruneberg) Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 14:30:38 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Looping unexplained Message-ID: <20010509143038.B4207@raxel.com> Hi there... We are running a mailman site with 6 Lists. All the lists bar the Rouge one are working like a dream. The rogue list is sending out a sent message multiple times, with the amount of times ranging from 2 to 100 odd times. There is no difference in setup of the lists, and I have even created a list with a number of personal accounts to try and recreate the situation but the lists just work. I was wondering if anyone else has got/had a similar problem , and if so HoW CAN I FIX IT :-> Any help would be gr8 Thanx in advance and Regards -- --------------------------------------------------- Bryan Gruneberg Raxel Communications - Linux Developer / Consultant Tel : +27 11 8036004 Cell : +27 83 3087752 From satyap at satya.virtualave.net Wed May 9 15:49:47 2001 From: satyap at satya.virtualave.net (Satya) Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 19:19:47 +0530 (IST) Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: remove this? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On May 9, 2001 at 09:51, Nigel Metheringham wrote: >will not in general support them... and currently the only MUA I know >of that does use them is exmh (and that has a couple of wrinkles I Pine, at least since 4.21, supports List-*. >We probably also ought to use the List-* headers as part of the loop >detection... and long term deprecate the X-beenthere - however judging >by the number of mailman 1.x installs around and the amount of people >with procmail filtering on that its likely to be a painful process. I already procmailise -- I mean, filter -- on List-Id. >this is not made easy - ie not a web config item, and if we do use >List-* as part of the loop detection remember that people using it may >screw themselves royally. If its a configurable my tendancy would be Good! >to put it in mm_cfg.py and ideally reset it on each upgrade. That'd be nice. -- Satya. US-bound grad students! For pre-apps, see Reactor error -- core dumped. From morris at unc.edu Wed May 9 16:19:33 2001 From: morris at unc.edu (Joe Morris) Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 10:19:33 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Mailman-Users] 2.0.5 issues persist on RH70 (corrected) In-Reply-To: <20010508220303.A20537@stardock.pug.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 8 May 2001, Pug Bainter wrote: | Joe Morris (morris at unc.edu) said something that sounded like: | > 4. Rerun check_perms and it finds 11 problems all related to files that | > are not set-gid. Why did it return differently this time after I set the | > owner of all files to mailman?!? | Because for security purposes the OS removes the set-gid bit after a | chown or chgrp. So, I guess it's OK to leave root as the owner of the structure? _______________________________________________________ Joe Morris http://www.ibiblio.org/morris Web Systems Manager, ATN http://help.unc.edu UNC-Chapel Hill http://www.unc.edu From mats at laplaza.org Wed May 9 16:55:01 2001 From: mats at laplaza.org (Mats Wichmann) Date: Wed, 09 May 2001 08:55:01 -0600 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Call for suggestions In-Reply-To: <3AF88913.BE54E08B@pcraft.com> References: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20010509085209.01c00928@mail.laplaza.org> At 06:02 PM 5/8/2001 -0600, Ashley M. Kirchner wrote: >Chuq Von Rospach wrote: > >> Trying to keep the subscriber databases in sync across machines is going to >> be problematic. > > Tow things I can think off of the top of my head, one being the easiest >(maybe). > > a) NFS Not designed for it. Chuq has posted some other thoughts, but if you're going the route of sharing disk between machines, you need a filesystem designed for it: NFS works okay at using network storage, but not when the individual files are to be actively shared between several machines. Here's where you go look at something like GFS, just to pick one example out of the air. Mats From haroldp at sierraweb.com Wed May 9 17:44:17 2001 From: haroldp at sierraweb.com (Harold Paulson) Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 08:44:17 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: remove this? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >Same with hacking list-*. The general consensus among those of us who've put >time into understanding this issue is that it's a very good thing for the >long-term development of mail list technologies. Short term, it's at best a >minor irritant, and that's only to people with cruddy mail clients (consider >it an incentive to upgrade to soemthing decent). For what it's worth, I use Eudora and rather like that it displays headers that it doesn't recognize. Sure it scares the lusers, but I love that it tries to inform me when it sees something "weird". They were simple enough to turn off in any case. Of course it will be nicer when it supports the RFC... - H -- Harold Paulson Sierra Web Design haroldp at sierraweb.com http://www.sierraweb.com VOICE: 775.833.9500 FAX: 810.314.1517 From donal.hunt2 at mail.dcu.ie Wed May 9 17:52:36 2001 From: donal.hunt2 at mail.dcu.ie (donal.hunt2 at mail.dcu.ie) Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 08:52:36 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re=3A=20=5BMailman=2DUsers=5D=20purge=20pending=20submittion=20from=20comma?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?nd=20line=3F?= Message-ID: <3AF8678600000A62@hawk.dcu.ie> Attached is a script that i wrote a week or two ago to do exactly that. you might need to edit the top line to reflect the location of python on your system. I had the script sitting in ~mailman/bin on my system and it worked quite happily. If you want to run it in cron, schedule it to run just before mailman sends out administrative reminders to the moderator/owner of the list. That way there is little chance of the moderators getting mails about pending requests. Regards Donal On Tue, 08 May 2001 21:06:36 +0900 ISO-2022-JP wrote: > > Is there any way to manually process the pending request from > > command line? > > Delete the relevant files from ~mailman/data/ > > -- > J C Lawrence claw at kanga.nu > ---------(*) http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/ > The pressure to survive and rhetoric may make strange bedfellows > > --------------------------------------------------------------- -------------- next part -------------- An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: clear_requests Url: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20010509/79b0ad3d/attachment.asc From Jason.Maderios at togethersoft.com Wed May 9 18:07:28 2001 From: Jason.Maderios at togethersoft.com (Jason Maderios) Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 12:07:28 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Attributes List Message-ID: <75B97A92FDFFEF43A2B9F2C0E5308C830D4FC3@ushqmailw01.togethersoft.net> Gang, Are all the available attributes listed anywhere? I would like to add the username and password to the footer of every email sent out. I know about the security implications but this is for a short term "Announcement" list. TIA, Jason Maderios From rogerk at QueerNet.ORG Wed May 9 18:18:16 2001 From: rogerk at QueerNet.ORG (Roger B.A. Klorese) Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 09:18:16 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Mailman-Users] Attributes List In-Reply-To: <75B97A92FDFFEF43A2B9F2C0E5308C830D4FC3@ushqmailw01.togethersoft.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 9 May 2001, Jason Maderios wrote: > Are all the available attributes listed anywhere? I would like to add > the username and password to the footer of every email sent out. I know > about the security implications but this is for a short term > "Announcement" list. You can't. The MLM doesn't build a separate copy for each recipient, so it can't be customized this way. -- ROGER B.A. KLORESE rogerk at QueerNet.ORG PO Box 14309 San Francisco, CA 94114 "There is only one real blasphemy -- the refusal of joy!" -- Paul Rudnick From lsteenson at fivetwenty.com Wed May 9 19:03:04 2001 From: lsteenson at fivetwenty.com (Lance M. Steenson) Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 13:03:04 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] user list Message-ID: <81BE08A01138D411B7E6005004789070026476@EEGEES> for starters, is there an archive available of this mailman-users at python.org list so can look thru? trying to find out where to locate the file that holds the subscriber's addresses on the server. does mailman take well to having scripts edit the users instead of the conventional subscribe or admin bulk subscribe methods? (if this is possible at all). lance. From barry at digicool.com Wed May 9 19:29:34 2001 From: barry at digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw) Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 13:29:34 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: remove this? References: <4.2.2.20010508124013.00bdf100@pop.mindspring.com> Message-ID: <15097.32382.674040.952521@anthem.wooz.org> Mike, thanks for the Eudora suggestions. I'm going to create a README.USERAGENT file that collects this wisdom, and I'm going to add a FAQ entry pointing people to this file. If anybody else has suggestions on settings for other MUAs please send them along. On the larger question of the List-* headers, there's no doubt that the situation will not change for the 2.0.x maintenance branch. If you want to get rid of the headers, hack the source. But, Mailman could do a better job of conforming to RFC 2369. E.g. it could suppress List-Post: for read-only lists, and it could get rid of the obsolete List-Id: header. I'll work on this for Mailman 2.1. I still believe that Mailman is doing The Right Thing by supporting RFC 2369. When the MUA vendors catch up, end users will benefit. That said, we may have to invoke the 9th Zen of Python: Practicality beats Purity[1]. Whether that means adding for Mailman 2.1 a list-specific configuration option (-1) or a site-wide configuration variable (-0), I'm not sure. I just wanted to say that while I still agree with Chuq and JC that this RFC is important to support, I'm not totally deaf to the cries of dismay from those of you who have to expend real dollars to deal with users on non-conformant MUAs. waffling-ly y'rs, -Barry [1] http://www.python.org/doc/Humor.html#zen From mhnoyes at users.sourceforge.net Wed May 9 20:08:08 2001 From: mhnoyes at users.sourceforge.net (Mike Noyes) Date: Wed, 09 May 2001 11:08:08 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: remove this? In-Reply-To: <15097.32382.674040.952521@anthem.wooz.org> References: <4.2.2.20010508124013.00bdf100@pop.mindspring.com> Message-ID: <4.2.2.20010509110025.00c36ee0@pop.mindspring.com> At 2001-05-09 13:29 -0400, Barry A. Warsaw wrote: >Mike, thanks for the Eudora suggestions. I'm going to create a >README.USERAGENT file that collects this wisdom, and I'm going to add >a FAQ entry pointing people to this file. If anybody else has >suggestions on settings for other MUAs please send them along. Barry, Thanks, but I can't take credit for them. Someone else posted the Eudora instructions in a message on a similar thread. I used them to create a FAQ for my list users. https://sourceforge.net/docman/display_doc.php?docid=1465&group_id=13751 >But, Mailman could do a better job of conforming to RFC 2369. E.g. it >could suppress List-Post: for read-only lists, and it could get rid of >the obsolete List-Id: header. I'll work on this for Mailman 2.1. > >I still believe that Mailman is doing The Right Thing by supporting >RFC 2369. When the MUA vendors catch up, end users will benefit. I agree. :) >That said, we may have to invoke the 9th Zen of Python: Practicality >beats Purity[1]. Whether that means adding for Mailman 2.1 a >list-specific configuration option (-1) or a site-wide configuration >variable (-0), I'm not sure. I just wanted to say that while I still >agree with Chuq and JC that this RFC is important to support, I'm not >totally deaf to the cries of dismay from those of you who have to >expend real dollars to deal with users on non-conformant MUAs. I'm sure whatever you decide to do will be fine. -- Mike Noyes http://leaf.sourceforge.net/ From hillson at iastate.edu Wed May 9 20:43:22 2001 From: hillson at iastate.edu (Thomas Hillson) Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 13:43:22 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: remove this? Message-ID: To help out those of you who like me think we should have the option of removing the headers, here is my CookHeaders.py which removes all headers that Mailman adds to outgoing mail. This is the crude way of doing it, but my users are happier now and I have fewer complaints. Myself and another gentleman had the same discussions you are having with some people months ago and you will not change their minds. If you use the code just copy the original CookHeaders.py to a new file name to save it and replace it with the modified code. This code is provided as is, it has not warranty that it will work or do what you want. You use it at your own risk. good luck, Tom Hillson ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- #$base/Mailman/Handlers/CookHeaders.py # Copyright (C) 1998,1999,2000 by the Free Software Foundation, Inc. # # This program is free software; you can redistribute it and/or # modify it under the terms of the GNU General Public License # as published by the Free Software Foundation; either version 2 # of the License, or (at your option) any later version. # # This program is distributed in the hope that it will be useful, # but WITHOUT ANY WARRANTY; without even the implied warranty of # MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE. See the # GNU General Public License for more details. # # You should have received a copy of the GNU General Public License # along with this program; if not, write to the Free Software # Foundation, Inc., 59 Temple Place - Suite 330, Boston, MA 02111-1307, USA. """Cook a message's Subject header. """ import string import re import urlparse from Mailman import mm_cfg def process(mlist, msg, msgdata): # Mark the message as dirty so that its text will be forced to disk next # time it's queued. msgdata['_dirty'] = 1 # Set the "X-Ack: no" header if noack flag is set. if msgdata.get('noack'): msg['X-Ack'] = 'no' # Because we're going to modify various important headers in the email # message, we want to save some of the information in the msgdata # dictionary for later. Specifically, the sender header will get waxed, # but we need it for the Acknowledge module later. msgdata['original_sender'] = msg.GetSender() subject = msg.getheader('subject') adminaddr = mlist.GetAdminEmail() fasttrack = msgdata.get('fasttrack') if not msgdata.get('isdigest') and not fasttrack: # Add the subject prefix unless the message is a digest or is being # fast tracked (e.g. internally crafted, delivered to a single user # such as the list admin). We assume all digests have an appropriate # subject header added by the ToDigest module. prefix = mlist.subject_prefix # we purposefully leave no space b/w prefix and subject! if not subject: msg['Subject'] = prefix + '(no subject)' elif prefix and not re.search(re.escape(prefix), subject, re.I): msg['Subject'] = prefix + subject # # get rid of duplicate headers del msg['sender'] del msg['errors-to'] msg['Sender'] = msgdata.get('errorsto', adminaddr) msg['Errors-To'] = msgdata.get('errorsto', adminaddr) # # Mark message so we know we've been here # msg.headers.append('X-BeenThere: %s\n' % mlist.GetListEmail()) # # Add Precedence: and other useful headers. None of these are standard # and finding information on some of them are fairly difficult. Some are # just common practice, and we'll add more here as they become necessary # # http://www.dsv.su.se/~jpalme/ietf/jp-ietf-home.html # # None of these headers are added if they already exist # if not msg.get('x-mailman-version'): # msg['X-Mailman-Version'] = mm_cfg.VERSION # Semi-controversial: some don't want this included at all, others # want the value to be ^List'. if not msg.get('precedence'): msg['Precedence'] = 'bulk' # # Reply-To: munging. Do not do this if the message is "fast tracked", # meaning it is internally crafted and delivered to a specific user. # Yuck, I hate this feature but enough people want it that we should # support it as an option. if not fasttrack: xreplyto = None # Set Reply-To: header to point back to this list if mlist.reply_goes_to_list == 1: xreplyto = msg.get('reply-to') msg['Reply-To'] = mlist.GetListEmail() # Set Reply-To: an explicit address elif mlist.reply_goes_to_list == 2: xreplyto = msg.get('reply-to') msg['Reply-To'] = mlist.reply_to_address # Give the recipient some ability to un-munge things. if xreplyto: msg['X-Reply-To'] = xreplyto # # Add list-specific headers as defined in RFC 2369, but only if the # message is being crafted for a specific list (e.g. not for the password # reminders). if msgdata.get('_nolist'): return # # Pre-calculate listid = '<%s.%s>' % (mlist._internal_name, mlist.host_name) if mlist.description: listid = mlist.description + ' ' + listid requestaddr = mlist.GetRequestEmail() subfieldfmt = '<%s>, ' listinfo = mlist.GetScriptURL('listinfo', absolute=1) # # TBD: List-Id is not in the RFC, but it was in an earlier draft so we # leave it in for historical reasons. headers = {} #This is the part commented out to eliminate the stupid headers we do not #want in the mail messages. #headers = { # 'List-Id' : listid, # 'List-Help' : '' % requestaddr, # 'List-Unsubscribe': subfieldfmt % (listinfo, requestaddr, 'un'), # 'List-Subscribe' : subfieldfmt % (listinfo, requestaddr, ''), # 'List-Post' : '' % mlist.GetListEmail(), # } # # First we delete any pre-existing headers because the RFC permist only # one copy of each, and we want to be sure it's ours. for h, v in headers.items(): del msg[h] # Wrap these lines if they are too long. 78 character width probably # shouldn't be hardcoded. The adding of 2 is for the colon-space # separator. #if len(h) + 2 + len(v) > 78: # v = string.join(string.split(v, ', '), ',\n\t') #msg[h] = v # # Always delete List-Archive header, but only add it back if the list is # actually archiving del msg['List-Archive'] # if mlist.archive: # value = '<%s>' % urlparse.urljoin(mlist.web_page_url, # mlist.GetBaseArchiveURL()) # value = '<%s>' % urlparse.urljoin(mlist.web_page_url, # mlist.GetBaseArchiveURL()) # msg['List-Archive'] = value From dmelton at banzuke.com Wed May 9 22:12:26 2001 From: dmelton at banzuke.com (Dave Melton) Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 13:12:26 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Mailman-Users] Off-Topic: WebMail recommendations? Message-ID: Sorry for the off-topic post, but at least I confessed my sin in advance! Since this group really seems to know its stuff, I'd like to ask for recommendations for a webmail server that will run on the same RHL7 machine as my Mailman installations. I'm hosting several low-traffic domains for non-profits and other groups...all important to the people involved, but no world-class performance requirements. Open source is preferrable, both for cost and customization, but some cost is acceptable if needed. So far I've looked at: BrowserExpress: Not open source, but reasonably priced. Incredibly easy to install, but pretty basic functionality. It works. Squirrel Mail: Open source and feature rich, but I don't want to fight my way through a MySQL->PHP->Apache->SquirrelMail installation path just to get webmail running. "Web E-Mail": Another open source package. Looks very basic and a bit rough, and they admit that it's not the most secure. Just based on their web site, I don't think it's where I want to be. Any other recommendations? Thanks much, Dave Melton From lww at ictech.net Wed May 9 22:33:47 2001 From: lww at ictech.net (Bill Warner) Date: Wed, 09 May 2001 15:33:47 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: remove this? In-Reply-To: <31393.989392522@kanga.nu> References: <4.3.1.2.20010508214215.00bc95c0@pop.ictech.net> <30076.989364432@kanga.nu> <4.3.1.2.20010508214215.00bc95c0@pop.ictech.net> Message-ID: <4.3.1.2.20010509144026.00bdf500@pop.ictech.net> At 12:15 AM 5/9/01 -0700, J C Lawrence wrote: >There is a critical difference. X does allow you and even makes it >very easy to do damned near anything you want, encluding being >incredibly stupid and making bad decisions. In a general light, >this is not a Bad Thing. One critical aspect however is that should >you do one of those stupid things you only break/damage yourself >(person running the broken app). A perfect example is X server >grabs. But, grabbing is so much fun! > > Unfortunately, if you don't buy the "mechanism, not policy" > > approach then you probably won't buy this argument either. > >Actually I buy and agree with both arguments, I just consider them >misplaced in this case. They work very well elsewhere. I think they are appropriate here too. It just seems to me that an adamant stance against configurability is actually more harmful to the stated goal of promoting wider acceptance of 2369 than allowing a per-list configuration would be. Here's why I say that: (a) Most mailman-owners will run with the defaults anyway, so all of their messages will still be 2369ized. (b) Those of us that have problems in this area can 2369ize our lists one, or a few, at a time, where appropriate, and bring our users along at a rate that we can manage. Since only we can determine what that rate is, only we can make that decision for ourselves. So, bottom line, I agree that 2369 compliance is good for Mailman and a worthy goal for all mailman-owners. A per-list configuration option would make it easier for me, and based on what I've read in the archive, others, to migrate towards full 2369 compliance, and therefore more likely that we'll do it. That sounds like a good thing to me. OTOH, a strident "hack it or take a hike" anti-configuration stance (some of the messages in the archive are downright hostile) actually makes it harder for me, and others, to migrate towards full 2369 compliance, which means it ain't gonna happen anytime soon. I'll simply hack the 2369 headers out by the roots and that will be the end of it as far as I'm concerned. And that, I submit, undermines the goal of rapid widespread compliance. Anyway, , that's how the picture looks from where I sit. >Trade offs. The high road. Those that leave are typically >(experience) better off gone, and (experience) their replacements >are much more valuable and numerous. I don't disagree with anything you said here about FAQs, user education, or customer/list member relations. I think you are right on all counts. The problem is, that at this particular moment in time, I simply cannot afford (in time or $$) to take the high road without just a little bit of help to make doing so a little bit easier. If I have to deal with this issue on an all or nothing basis, it's going to be nothing. In any case, Barry has said he'll consider the 2369 configuration issue for 2.1, and that's good enough for me! I ask for nothing more. > > We now return you to your regularly scheduled program about how to > > get Mailman to run on the Linux flavor-of-the-day... > >Yea gods save us. Doesn't seem likely. ;-) --Bill From lww at ictech.net Wed May 9 23:04:34 2001 From: lww at ictech.net (Bill Warner) Date: Wed, 09 May 2001 16:04:34 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: remove this? In-Reply-To: References: <4.3.1.2.20010508214215.00bc95c0@pop.ictech.net> Message-ID: <4.3.1.2.20010509154148.00be0b10@pop.ictech.net> At 11:32 PM 5/8/01 -0700, Chuq Von Rospach wrote: >I disagree. Policy decisions should be made by people who can make them in >an informed way, not out of ignorance. X windows lets its users do REALLY >STUPID AND DESTRUCTIVE things, simply because they want to. "because they >want to" isn't a good enough answer, Sure it is. It's what gives X the flexibility and power to do useful things which were not, or even could not, be anticipated by the developers in advance. Really, I appreciate your concern but you don't have to protect me from myself. >or else we ought to just give everyone >root access on a computer, and if they want to "rm -rf /", well, we should >let them. Sure, why not? What are you going to do, hide the rm man pages? Disable "-rf" unless they get permission from you? If it's their system, and they've decided they want to "rm -rf /", well then by golly I'll be happy to help. I don't see why anyone should appoint themselves to be the rm police, or the List-* police. >And in this specific case, there's a larger issue as well -- if sites turn >this stuff off widely, it discourages their adoption into the clients, >which screws over the overall adoption. The problem with this argument, as I see it (and have expounded in more detail in my message to JC), is that your attitude will actually make it more likely for sites, like mine, to kill these headers site-wide until they are no longer a problem instead of doing it selectively and working towards compliance with 2369. --Bill From lww at ictech.net Wed May 9 22:41:28 2001 From: lww at ictech.net (Bill Warner) Date: Wed, 09 May 2001 15:41:28 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: remove this? In-Reply-To: <15097.32382.674040.952521@anthem.wooz.org> References: <4.2.2.20010508124013.00bdf100@pop.mindspring.com> Message-ID: <4.3.1.2.20010509153614.00bd3710@pop.ictech.net> At 01:29 PM 5/9/01 -0400, Barry A. Warsaw wrote: >On the larger question of the List-* headers, there's no doubt that >the situation will not change for the 2.0.x maintenance branch. If >you want to get rid of the headers, hack the source. Fair enough. >But, Mailman could do a better job of conforming to RFC 2369. E.g. it >could suppress List-Post: for read-only lists, Or, as Chuq mentioned use the List-Post: NO syntax. >I still believe that Mailman is doing The Right Thing by supporting >RFC 2369. When the MUA vendors catch up, end users will benefit. Agreed. >Whether that means adding for Mailman 2.1 a >list-specific configuration option (-1) or a site-wide configuration >variable (-0), I'm not sure. Thank-you, Barry, for reconsidering this issue. Please cast my vote for a per-list option for the reasons outline in my message to JC. --Bill From chuqui at plaidworks.com Thu May 10 00:13:09 2001 From: chuqui at plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach) Date: Wed, 09 May 2001 15:13:09 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: remove this? In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20010509144026.00bdf500@pop.ictech.net> Message-ID: On 5/9/01 1:33 PM, "Bill Warner" wrote: > OTOH, a strident "hack it or take a hike" anti-configuration stance (some > of the messages in the archive are downright hostile) actually makes it > harder for me, and others, to migrate towards full 2369 compliance, which > means it ain't gonna happen anytime soon. Why? It creates dialog, which fosters education. If we hadn't had this discussion, but instead had a configuration option, would you have even asked or researched? Probably not. By taking a hard line (and yes, sometimes it's gotten snarky, but usually, someone snarks at the code maintainers first. Usually...) it forces people to at least listen to the rationale before making the decision... > I'll simply hack the 2369 > headers out by the roots and that will be the end of it as far as I'm > concerned. And that, I submit, undermines the goal of rapid widespread > compliance. > > Anyway, , that's how the picture looks from where I sit. Heck, you'd have done that anyway -- but now you know why they're there and why we want them there, and you're doing it anyway. That's a net positive towards adoption, because at least you're making an informed (if, IMHO, wrong) choice. That's better than the option of making it in ignorance. From dmick at utopia.West.Sun.COM Thu May 10 00:16:24 2001 From: dmick at utopia.West.Sun.COM (Dan Mick) Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 15:16:24 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Mailman-Users] argh!! more problems Message-ID: <200105092216.PAA01209@utopia.West.Sun.COM> Apparently you didn't read what I said. > -rw-rw---- 1 nobody mail 16875 May 8 18:16 > /home/mailman/lists/thelist/config.db is not group mailman. That would be the problem, and I have to believe that check_perms would find it, too. > > The web server writes it. This is not a problem, because it's owned > > by group mailman, and write permissions are granted to group mailman. From tib at tigerknight.org Thu May 10 00:57:33 2001 From: tib at tigerknight.org (Tib) Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 15:57:33 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Mailman-Users] argh!! more problems In-Reply-To: <200105092216.PAA01209@utopia.West.Sun.COM> Message-ID: I'm afraid it doesn't - here's an example: [root at unica mailman]# ls -lR lists/|grep config.db -rw-rw---- 1 nobody mail 9759 May 9 14:14 config.db -rw-rw---- 1 nobody mail 9759 May 9 14:14 config.db.last -rw-rw---- 1 mailman mail 16876 May 9 15:27 config.db -rw-rw---- 1 mailman mail 16876 May 9 15:26 config.db.last -rw-rw---- 1 mailman mail 2865 May 3 04:03 config.db -rw-rw---- 1 mailman mail 2865 May 3 04:03 config.db.last -rw-rw---- 1 mailman mail 3775 May 9 12:00 config.db -rw-rw---- 1 mailman mail 3775 May 8 17:00 config.db.last -rw-rw---- 1 mailman mail 5123 May 9 14:08 config.db -rw-rw---- 1 mailman mail 5123 May 9 14:08 config.db.last -rw-rw---- 1 mailman mail 3149 May 9 12:00 config.db -rw-rw---- 1 mailman mail 3149 May 8 17:00 config.db.last [root at unica mailman]# ./bin/check_perms /home/mailman/archives/private/notopic/index.html bad gid (has: mailman, expected mail) /home/mailman/archives/private/distrib/index.html bad gid (has: mailman, expected mail) Problems found: 2 It sounds as though the check_perms script would have found all of these in error.. ? Tib On Wed, 9 May 2001, Dan Mick wrote: > Apparently you didn't read what I said. > > > -rw-rw---- 1 nobody mail 16875 May 8 18:16 > > /home/mailman/lists/thelist/config.db > > is not group mailman. That would be the problem, and I have to believe > that check_perms would find it, too. > > > > The web server writes it. This is not a problem, because it's owned > > > by group mailman, and write permissions are granted to group mailman. > > > ------------------------------------------------------ > Mailman-Users maillist - Mailman-Users at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users > From tib at tigerknight.org Thu May 10 02:29:28 2001 From: tib at tigerknight.org (Tib) Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 17:29:28 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Mailman-Users] problems with the config.db permissions Message-ID: Check_perms fails to find it, and it's turning into a major problem. What (exactly) writes and rewrites the config.db file and what are the actual permissions it's supposed to have? From ealier reference it sounded as though it should be owned by nobody (since the webserver modifies/creates/backs-up/etc) and the group should be mailman. Ok - I can deal with this - but after manually setting the ownership to be just that - this is what I get after waiting a while and checking again: [root at unica mailman]# ls -lR lists/|grep config.db -rw-rw---- 1 nobody mailman 9759 May 9 14:14 config.db -rw-rw---- 1 nobody mailman 9759 May 9 14:14 config.db.last -rw-rw---- 1 nobody mailman 16876 May 9 15:27 config.db -rw-rw---- 1 nobody mailman 16876 May 9 15:26 config.db.last -rw-rw---- 1 nobody mailman 2865 May 3 04:03 config.db -rw-rw---- 1 nobody mailman 2865 May 3 04:03 config.db.last -rw-rw---- 1 nobody mailman 3775 May 9 12:00 config.db -rw-rw---- 1 nobody mailman 3775 May 8 17:00 config.db.last -rw-rw---- 1 nobody mailman 5123 May 9 14:08 config.db -rw-rw---- 1 nobody mailman 5123 May 9 14:08 config.db.last -rw-rw---- 1 nobody mailman 3149 May 9 12:00 config.db -rw-rw---- 1 nobody mailman 3149 May 8 17:00 config.db.last [root at unica mailman]# ls -lR lists/|grep config.db -rw-rw---- 1 mailman mail 9759 May 9 17:00 config.db -rw-rw---- 1 nobody mailman 9759 May 9 14:14 config.db.last -rw-rw---- 1 mailman mail 16876 May 9 17:00 config.db -rw-rw---- 1 nobody mailman 16876 May 9 15:27 config.db.last -rw-rw---- 1 nobody mailman 2865 May 3 04:03 config.db -rw-rw---- 1 nobody mailman 2865 May 3 04:03 config.db.last -rw-rw---- 1 mailman mail 3775 May 9 17:00 config.db -rw-rw---- 1 nobody mailman 3775 May 9 12:00 config.db.last -rw-rw---- 1 mailman mail 5123 May 9 17:00 config.db -rw-rw---- 1 nobody mailman 5123 May 9 14:08 config.db.last -rw-rw---- 1 mailman mail 3149 May 9 17:00 config.db -rw-rw---- 1 nobody mailman 3149 May 9 12:00 config.db.last As you can see - the ones that get modified have their permissions changed to 'mailman:mail' and I've seen further changes where it becomes 'nobody:mail' and then mailman starts spitting errors out right and left and the lists just queue up messages and don't do anything anymore. Could someone please explain in detail exactly how it's /supposed/ to happen in a good situation? Tib From dmick at utopia.West.Sun.COM Thu May 10 02:45:31 2001 From: dmick at utopia.West.Sun.COM (Dan Mick) Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 17:45:31 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Mailman-Users] problems with the config.db permissions Message-ID: <200105100045.RAA10511@utopia.West.Sun.COM> > Check_perms fails to find it, and it's turning into a major problem. Doublecheck your version of check_perms; the code is there, and it works, in 2.0.5. Are you running check_perms from the installed bin/ directory as the instructions and about a billion posts on this list say? > What (exactly) writes and rewrites the config.db file and what are the actual > permissions it's supposed to have? It should be owned by the user who writes it (which might be a lot of places). It should be group mailman, because the directory that it's in should be group mailman, and have the "group-id bit" set so that other file creations in that directory are also done by group mailman, and also because all the programs that write it are themselves sgid-mailman. In the case where you're updating things from the web page, the web server run the CGI program, probably in your case as user "nobody"; the CGI program validates the group it has been run as, and then sets its GID to mailman before continuing. That means all files it creates will be group mailman. check_perms should be finding all this; you need to find out what's going wrong with check_perms. > From ealier reference it sounded as though > it should be owned by nobody (since the webserver > modifies/creates/backs-up/etc) and the group should be mailman. Ok - I can deal > with this - but after manually setting the ownership to be just that - this is > what I get after waiting a while and checking again: > > [root at unica mailman]# ls -lR lists/|grep config.db > -rw-rw---- 1 nobody mailman 9759 May 9 14:14 config.db > -rw-rw---- 1 nobody mailman 9759 May 9 14:14 config.db.last > -rw-rw---- 1 nobody mailman 16876 May 9 15:27 config.db > -rw-rw---- 1 nobody mailman 16876 May 9 15:26 config.db.last > -rw-rw---- 1 nobody mailman 2865 May 3 04:03 config.db > -rw-rw---- 1 nobody mailman 2865 May 3 04:03 config.db.last > -rw-rw---- 1 nobody mailman 3775 May 9 12:00 config.db > -rw-rw---- 1 nobody mailman 3775 May 8 17:00 config.db.last > -rw-rw---- 1 nobody mailman 5123 May 9 14:08 config.db > -rw-rw---- 1 nobody mailman 5123 May 9 14:08 config.db.last > -rw-rw---- 1 nobody mailman 3149 May 9 12:00 config.db > -rw-rw---- 1 nobody mailman 3149 May 8 17:00 config.db.last > > [root at unica mailman]# ls -lR lists/|grep config.db > -rw-rw---- 1 mailman mail 9759 May 9 17:00 config.db > -rw-rw---- 1 nobody mailman 9759 May 9 14:14 config.db.last > -rw-rw---- 1 mailman mail 16876 May 9 17:00 config.db > -rw-rw---- 1 nobody mailman 16876 May 9 15:27 config.db.last > -rw-rw---- 1 nobody mailman 2865 May 3 04:03 config.db > -rw-rw---- 1 nobody mailman 2865 May 3 04:03 config.db.last > -rw-rw---- 1 mailman mail 3775 May 9 17:00 config.db > -rw-rw---- 1 nobody mailman 3775 May 9 12:00 config.db.last > -rw-rw---- 1 mailman mail 5123 May 9 17:00 config.db > -rw-rw---- 1 nobody mailman 5123 May 9 14:08 config.db.last > -rw-rw---- 1 mailman mail 3149 May 9 17:00 config.db > -rw-rw---- 1 nobody mailman 3149 May 9 12:00 config.db.last > > As you can see - the ones that get modified have their permissions changed to > 'mailman:mail' and I've seen further changes where it becomes 'nobody:mail' and > then mailman starts spitting errors out right and left and the lists just queue > up messages and don't do anything anymore. Could someone please explain in > detail exactly how it's /supposed/ to happen in a good situation? > > > Tib > > > ------------------------------------------------------ > Mailman-Users maillist - Mailman-Users at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users From pug at pug.net Thu May 10 03:05:34 2001 From: pug at pug.net (Pug Bainter) Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 20:05:34 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] problems with the config.db permissions In-Reply-To: ; from tib@tigerknight.org on Wed, May 09, 2001 at 05:29:28PM -0700 References: Message-ID: <20010509200534.A23935@stardock.pug.net> Tib (tib at tigerknight.org) said something that sounded like: > [root at unica mailman]# ls -lR lists/|grep config.db Are the directories set-gid? This will help in some cases where things are not ran through a set-gid program. Make sure that they are set to be 2775 (drwxrwsr-x). Ciao, -- Pug Bainter | AMD, Inc. System Engineer, MTS | Mail Stop 625 Pug.Bainter at amd.com | pug at pug.net | 5900 E. Ben White Blvd Phone: (512) 602-0364 | Fax: (512) 602-6970 | Austin, TX 78741 Note: The views may not reflect my employers, or even my own for that matter. From tib at tigerknight.org Thu May 10 03:05:05 2001 From: tib at tigerknight.org (Tib) Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 18:05:05 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Mailman-Users] problems with the config.db permissions In-Reply-To: <200105100045.RAA10511@utopia.West.Sun.COM> Message-ID: On Wed, 9 May 2001, Dan Mick wrote: > Doublecheck your version of check_perms; the code is there, and it > works, in 2.0.5. Are you running check_perms from the installed > bin/ directory as the instructions and about a billion posts on this > list say? Yes. I did. > check_perms should be finding all this; you need to find out what's going > wrong with check_perms. I tested with changing permissions/ownerships around on a few things to see what check_perms would and would not catch, and found an something interesting: Check_perms wants to set the gid to 'mail' and /not/ mailman. But mailman itself spits out errors with this gid setting. I have no idea why it worked so far up to this point, or very possibly it never did but the list was not tested to the complete functionality up to this point by the low traffic of my lists. Rather than fight with reinstalling mailman or some other extreme bit of work, I just put mailman in the group 'mail' and now things seem to be running smoothly again. Good grief what a headache this whole fiasco has been, my apologies for the upset. Tib From dmick at utopia.West.Sun.COM Thu May 10 03:17:11 2001 From: dmick at utopia.West.Sun.COM (Dan Mick) Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 18:17:11 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Mailman-Users] problems with the config.db permissions Message-ID: <200105100117.SAA11962@utopia.West.Sun.COM> > > check_perms should be finding all this; you need to find out what's going > > wrong with check_perms. > > I tested with changing permissions/ownerships around on a few things > to see what check_perms would and would not catch, and found an > something interesting: Check_perms wants to set the gid to 'mail' > and /not/ mailman. But mailman itself spits out errors with this gid > setting. The only way I can see this happening is if Defaults.py or mm_cfg.py has the wrong entry for MAILMAN_GID. from Mailman import mm_cfg from Mailman.mm_cfg import MAILMAN_UID, MAILMAN_GID try: MAILMAN_GRPNAME = grp.getgrgid(MAILMAN_GID)[0] except KeyError: MAILMAN_GRPNAME = '' % MAILMAN_GID From claw at kanga.nu Thu May 10 04:02:35 2001 From: claw at kanga.nu (J C Lawrence) Date: Wed, 09 May 2001 19:02:35 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: remove this? In-Reply-To: Message from Bill Warner of "Wed, 09 May 2001 15:33:47 CDT." <4.3.1.2.20010509144026.00bdf500@pop.ictech.net> References: <4.3.1.2.20010508214215.00bc95c0@pop.ictech.net> <30076.989364432@kanga.nu> <4.3.1.2.20010508214215.00bc95c0@pop.ictech.net> <4.3.1.2.20010509144026.00bdf500@pop.ictech.net> Message-ID: <15837.989460155@kanga.nu> On Wed, 09 May 2001 15:33:47 -0500 Bill Warner wrote: > At 12:15 AM 5/9/01 -0700, J C Lawrence wrote: >> Actually I buy and agree with both arguments, I just consider >> them misplaced in this case. They work very well elsewhere. > I think they are appropriate here too. It just seems to me that > an adamant stance against configurability is actually more harmful > to the stated goal of promoting wider acceptance of 2369 than > allowing a per-list configuration would be. You may be right. I look at it a little differently on the basis that source is available, and that lsit admins, should they so need to, can patch their source locally, and can find the relevant instructions and patches in the archives should they so need to. Unlike a closed source product the door is not slammed or locked shut, there's just a lack of a neon sign telling you where the door is. > Here's why I say that: > (a) Most mailman-owners will run with the defaults anyway, so all > of their messages will still be 2369ized. One of the advantages of the above you-have-to-manually-patch-your-source approach is that most will fail to maintain the patch across upgrades, and thus even if the patch is variously adopted, it will self-select against itself over time. > (b) Those of us that have problems in this area can 2369ize our > lists one, or a few, at a time, where appropriate, and bring our > users along at a rate that we can manage. Since only we can > determine what that rate is, only we can make that decision for > ourselves. Agreed. Use of a good MTA ala Exim can also help here (you can put in delivery time filters to strip the appropriate headers to do whatever to the message(s)). The question has never been about _IF_ you could do it, just about _HOW_. > So, bottom line, I agree that 2369 compliance is good for Mailman > and a worthy goal for all mailman-owners. A per-list > configuration option would make it easier for me, and based on > what I've read in the archive, others, to migrate towards full > 2369 compliance, and therefore more likely that we'll do it. That > sounds like a good thing to me. For reasons previously discussed, I'm not so keen. Tho I do agree that Mailman does not to properly support the concept of an announce-only list, and should reflect that in the List headers. > Anyway, , that's how the picture looks from where I sit. >> Trade offs. The high road. Those that leave are typically >> (experience) better off gone, and (experience) their replacements >> are much more valuable and numerous. > I don't disagree with anything you said here about FAQs, user > education, or customer/list member relations. I think you are > right on all counts. The problem is, that at this particular > moment in time, I simply cannot afford (in time or $$) to take the > high road without just a little bit of help to make doing so a > little bit easier. If I have to deal with this issue on an all or > nothing basis, it's going to be nothing. It is possible that Mailman is not the right MLM for your needs. > In any case, Barry has said he'll consider the 2369 configuration > issue for 2.1, and that's good enough for me! Given the current state of affairs, I would mildly encourage (translation: I won't argue against it) the following: Arbitrary-person-who-is-not-Barry writes a patch to support 2369 configurability and submits it at SourceForge. Minimal effort is excercised not to break the patch across Mailman versions. Anybody who really thinks they need it can grab the patch and head out on their own as/if needed. Its the old, "This is unsupported but you can do it" trick. >> > We now return you to your regularly scheduled program about how >> to > get Mailman to run on the Linux flavor-of-the-day... >> >> Yea gods save us. > Doesn't seem likely. ;-) -- J C Lawrence claw at kanga.nu ---------(*) http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/ The pressure to survive and rhetoric may make strange bedfellows From juha at saarinen.org Thu May 10 04:13:53 2001 From: juha at saarinen.org (Juha Saarinen) Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 14:13:53 +1200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Changing Mailman settings globally for groups of users Message-ID: Hi, Apologies if this is in the archives (how do you search for Mailman specific topics?), but I would like to enable the "hide" option for all subscribers to a particular list. Is there a way to do that from the CLI? -- Juha The malformed orange Fails to satisfy the eye: Segmentation fault. From dcas at tpg.com.au Thu May 10 04:35:08 2001 From: dcas at tpg.com.au (David Casamento) Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 12:35:08 +1000 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Duplicate emails sent out In-Reply-To: References: <5.1.0.14.2.20010509155309.0c469340@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010510123502.00a99850@pop3.norton.antivirus> Well then I would have to say the duplicates are being created at my end. At 22:58 8/05/01 -0700, Chuq Von Rospach wrote: >On 5/8/01 10:57 PM, "David Casamento" wrote: > > > So from what I can tell, my mailing list server is sending out all the > dups. > >But that doesn't tell you where they're coming from. Who's creating the >duplicates? You? Or someone else? Until you figure that you, you won't >really solve this problem. > > > >------------------------------------------------------ >Mailman-Users maillist - Mailman-Users at python.org >http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users From barry at digicool.com Thu May 10 05:51:02 2001 From: barry at digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw) Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 23:51:02 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: remove this? References: <4.2.2.20010508124013.00bdf100@pop.mindspring.com> <4.3.1.2.20010509153614.00bd3710@pop.ictech.net> Message-ID: <15098.4134.601924.444393@anthem.wooz.org> >>>>> "BW" == Bill Warner writes: >> But, Mailman could do a better job of conforming to RFC 2369. >> E.g. it could suppress List-Post: for read-only lists, BW> Or, as Chuq mentioned use the List-Post: NO syntax. That's what I meant to say. :) >> Whether that means adding for Mailman 2.1 a list-specific >> configuration option (-1) or a site-wide configuration variable >> (-0), I'm not sure. BW> Thank-you, Barry, for reconsidering this issue. Please cast BW> my vote for a per-list option for the reasons outline in my BW> message to JC. Noted. Thanks. -Barry From bob at nleaudio.com Wed May 9 06:52:54 2001 From: bob at nleaudio.com (Bob Puff @ NLE) Date: Wed, 09 May 2001 00:52:54 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: remove this? References: Message-ID: <3AF8CD26.444E29B6@nleaudio.com> > The bottom line is, like the original poster of this thread, I > want these headers to go away. Unfortunately, I haven't been able > to find where they are coming from. If someone could simply tell > me what I need to hack in order to get rid of these headers, I > would be grateful. http://nleaudio.com/bnotes/mailman.htm Bob From dan at tangledhelix.com Thu May 10 09:54:05 2001 From: dan at tangledhelix.com (Dan Lowe) Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 03:54:05 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] user list In-Reply-To: <81BE08A01138D411B7E6005004789070026476@EEGEES>; from lsteenson@fivetwenty.com on Wed, May 09, 2001 at 01:03:04PM -0400 References: <81BE08A01138D411B7E6005004789070026476@EEGEES> Message-ID: <20010510035405.B8636@tangledhelix.com> Previously, Lance M. Steenson said: > for starters, is there an archive available of this mailman-users at python.org > list so can look thru? http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ > trying to find out where to locate the file that holds the subscriber's > addresses on the server. If you're looking for a text file with addresses in it, there is no such thing. Subscription data is stored in the list config, which is a Python marshal file, IIRC (if you're not a Python person, this is a sort of hash file). In any case, you can get this info in text form with bin/list_members. > does mailman take well to having scripts edit the > users instead of the conventional subscribe or admin bulk subscribe methods? > (if this is possible at all). Scripts exist to modify subscription lists; see bin/list_members bin/remove_members bin/add_members -- Why don't sheep shrink when it rains? -George Carlin From techgrrl at beeze.com Thu May 10 10:56:16 2001 From: techgrrl at beeze.com (Sarah K. Miller) Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 01:56:16 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem with Sender Info References: <013301c0d776$45165c60$0200010a@home.beeze.com> <20010509111351.M29713@magic.merlins.org> Message-ID: <001f01c0d92f$1305c750$0200010a@home.beeze.com> > On Mon, May 07, 2001 at 09:20:52PM -0700, Sarah K. Miller wrote: > > I run a server with about 80 lists on it. Everything goes smoothly until > > the monthly reminder is sent out on the first of the month. Every > > outgoing message indicates the "Sender" is the same list-owner, > > regardless of which list the subscriber was actually a member of. > I've found that mailman uses the first list that was ever created (probably > does a readdir and picks the first list in ~mailman/lists) Mine's not using the first one ever created. I too created a test list first, but it's not using that address. Does anyone know which program file might be able to be modified to change the sender address on the monthly reminders? Has anyone successfully modified this file to route to either the "correct" address or at least to the mailman-owner address? I hate to redirect all the -admin traffic for the victim list to someplace other then it's owner, but that's what I will have to do if there's no way to fix it. -- Sarah From kyrian at ore.org Thu May 10 11:22:51 2001 From: kyrian at ore.org (Kyrian) Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 10:22:51 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: suEXEC & Mailman References: Message-ID: <3AFA5DEB.C2F5C5F9@ore.org> Tauren, CC: list. Yes. I did solve this problem in the end... Because I was using suexec to run mailman's CGI's, and not running the entire webserver as the required UID/GID, they were failing with (500?) Server Errors, and not putting anything into the standard httpd error log files. The problem was that I didn't stop to think about suexec, and when I looked in its log files (either /var/log/httpd/cgi.log or /var/log/httpd/suexec_log), I saw the likes of the following: [2001-04-19 22:45:50]: crit: calling user mismatch (httpd instead of nobody) [2001-04-19 22:45:51]: crit: calling user mismatch (httpd instead of nobody) [2001-04-19 22:47:12]: crit: calling user mismatch (httpd instead of nobody) [2001-04-19 22:47:14]: crit: calling user mismatch (httpd instead of nobody) [2001-05-07 16:52:02]: info: (target/actual) uid: (mailman/mailman) gid: (mailman/mailman) cmd: listinfo [2001-05-07 16:52:02]: error: command not in docroot (/var/mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo) [2001-05-07 16:54:33]: info: (target/actual) uid: (mailman/mailman) gid: (mailman/mailman) cmd: listinfo [2001-05-07 16:54:33]: error: directory is writable by others: (/var/mailman/cgi-bin) [2001-05-07 16:54:51]: info: (target/actual) uid: (mailman/mailman) gid: (mailman/mailman) cmd: listinfo [2001-05-07 16:54:51]: error: target uid/gid (48/48) mismatch with directory (0/0) or program (0/48) [2001-05-07 16:55:08]: info: (target/actual) uid: (mailman/mailman) gid: (mailman/mailman) cmd: listinfo All of which require recompilation of the suexec binary, with a modified suexec.h file to change the restriction parameters it applies. Anyway, to Tauren's specific idea... I don't think it's exactly possible without having a full, custom-compiled mailman implementation, set up to run as the same UID as the client's virtual hosts already run under. This is because mailman insists on being run as mailman:mailman by default, and you'd have to compile that out in order for it to work (and of course taking account of the above suexec changes to allow all the virtualhosts home directories to be useable for suexec-d CGI's). All of which is quite a clumsy solution to the problem, but would work. Alternatively, you could (although this would mean mailman still runs as mailman:mailman, but it would work) compile up some wrapper executables for all of the mailman CGI's which are suid to mailman:mailman, within the virtual host for each of your clients, and put them in each client's cgi directories. eg. for each of the mailman CGI's, have a C program like the following: main(){ execl("/var/mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo", 0); } Compile it, and put it in your client's CGI bin, and then chmod it to g+s and u+s, and chown to mailman:mailman. That should get you somewhere, but it would only be one mailman implementation, still running as mailman:mailman, but it would work with your current suexec settings, AFAIK. Yours, Kev. Tauren Mills wrote: > > Hi Kyrian, > > Did you ever find a solution to this problem? I would love to run the > mailman scripts as my customer's usernames instead of the "nobody" user. > That's how all of their other CGI scripts are configured to run using > suEXEC. But because we have the User and Group settings in each virtual > host, Mailman won't run. I've compiled Mailman with the specific username > that I want to run the scripts. > > I'd appreciate ANY information you can provide! > > Thanks, > Tauren > > --- > > Hi All, > > Sorry if this is a dumb question, but this is an odd one, I think. > > I've got mailman configured correctly as far as I can see, but I still > get "Internal Server Error" problems on the web interface, and the > following in the apache error log: > > [Thu Apr 19 23:54:00 2001] [error] [client 195.13.114.100] Premature end > of script headers: /usr/share/mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo > > There's nothing in the mailman errors log about this, and nothing in the > maillog about this, except when I run the cgi's from the command line > wrongly (they work if I su to "nobody" and run them). > > Everything else seems to work fine, and I've done the following part of > the FAQ for: > > 'Q. What if I get "document contains no data" from the web server, or > mail isn't getting delivered, or I see "Premature end of script headers" > or "Mailman CGI error!!!"' > > ie. in my vhost config for apache (because I'm using suexec for Cgi's): > > > User nobody > Group nobody > > Which removes the errors about "Wrong GID" etc error messages. > > I'm using redhat's mailman-2.0beta5-1 RPM (asking for trouble, I > know..), and I've followed the instructions for that. > > For python I'm using this RPM from the python site itself: > BeOpen-Python-2.0-1 > > But the problem still remains. > > Is it some incompatibility between suexec and mailman? or a dumb > permissions/config error at my end? > > I'm stumped, and if anyone could help, that would be great. > > Yours, > > Kev. > > PS. The archives for this list don't seem to be searchable? Is that a > future plan for mailman? or? > > -- > "Life is the sieve through which my anarchy strains, resolving itself > into words" > Kev Green, aka. Kyrian www.ore.org -- Bad > Religion -- Kev Green, aka Kyrian. Email: kyrian at ore.org Web: http://mud.ore.org/~kyrian/ "Someday you too will know my pain, and smile its blacktoothed grin, if the war inside my head, won't take a day off I'll be dead" -- Megadeth. From yogesh at janus.gsf.de Thu May 10 11:22:57 2001 From: yogesh at janus.gsf.de (Yogesh Bhanu) Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 11:22:57 +0200 (METDST) Subject: [Mailman-Users] qrunner error ... Message-ID: <200105100922.LAA18572@janus.gsf.de> Hi all, Can anyone tell me what these errors translate to ... May 09 18:10:01 2001 (5646) Unlinking orphaned .db file: /home/mailman/qfiles/13b85892a42e3150b7155af5a138950ffc120d28.db May 09 23:10:01 2001 (6396) Unlinking orphaned .db file: /home/mailman/qfiles/22c01ddde94d1dcbcb3a9b3de83abfff9c22527a.db May 10 11:15:01 2001 (8463) Unlinking orphaned .db file: /home/mailman/qfiles/cbf6e71184aa977054c645ef375772f42b19bf58.db I have modified my qrunner crontab entry to lookup every 5 instead of every 1 min and I have disabled news dating option ... before that qrunner have me this error May 08 17:41:02 2001 (16425) Could not acquire qrunner lock May 08 17:42:03 2001 (16427) Could not acquire qrunner lock May 08 17:43:03 2001 (16429) Could not acquire qrunner lock which prompted me to change the settings to 5 min instead of usual 3 ... Thanks in advance yogesh From juergen.erhard at gmx.net Thu May 10 04:08:52 2001 From: juergen.erhard at gmx.net (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22J=FCrgen_A=2E_Erhard=22?=) Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 04:08:52 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: remove this? In-Reply-To: <15097.32382.674040.952521@anthem.wooz.org> (barry@digicool.com) References: <4.2.2.20010508124013.00bdf100@pop.mindspring.com> <15097.32382.674040.952521@anthem.wooz.org> Message-ID: <10052001.3@wanderer.local.jae.ddns.org> >>>>> "Barry" == Barry A Warsaw writes: Barry> But, Mailman could do a better job of conforming to RFC Barry> 2369. E.g. it could suppress List-Post: for read-only Barry> lists, and it could get rid of the obsolete List-Id: Barry> header. I'll work on this for Mailman 2.1. Barry, please tell me you're *not* serious about getting rid of List-Id! This is the one universal list identifying header I've been waiting for... for once you can filter on a std header (X- headers can never be std), *before* you even know what headers a msg of a mailing list you're just subscribing to will bear (so even the very first posting of a newly-sub'd list goes into the proper folder). Bye, J PS: Wish I could remember the paper the List-Id header is described in... was a draft extension to 2369. Mention here or on -devel, I think. PPS: Filtering on the other List-* headers? Well, judging by 2369, there doesn't need to be any obvious relationship to the list... List-Post, for example, can be a moderator, which can be any address, even the same as for some totally different list. List-Id is the only necessarily list-specific header. So, please leave that one in. -- J?rgen A. Erhard juergen.erhard at gmx.net phone: (GERMANY) 0721 27326 My WebHome: http://members.tripod.com/Juergen_Erhard There's an NDA in the FSF... Free Software FouNDAtion. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 248 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20010510/40f74db1/attachment.pgp From lennu at tietoverkot.net Thu May 10 13:06:32 2001 From: lennu at tietoverkot.net (Len Merikanto) Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 14:06:32 +0300 (EEST) Subject: [Mailman-Users] Weird acting. Message-ID: After succesfully installign mailman and old lists to it from freebsd to solaris8 i got 2 lists that just dont do anything when u try to get to their admin interface. why is that? all other moved lists from freebsd work fine until yesterday :) well yesterday, uid of mailman was changed, i didnt do it but dont have clue who did unless solaris has sum auto uid changer daemon to use all uid on passwd without leaving empty uids there which would be silly. uid of mailman changed from 51 to 15 fixed everything and all was doign fine. now today again problem is. i try to send email to lists and all goe well except for the domain users from which mailman is installed at. lets say we have mailman.foo.com all else users get their email except *@foo.com users. sendmail says everything is ok. and stat sent then another problem while i started to debug this problem i made list wher ei am as admin and got this error: May 10 13:52:33 research sendmail[13452]: [ID 801593 mail.info] f4AAj3O13450: to=, delay=00:07:30, xdelay=00:07:29, mailer=esmtp, pri=230111, relay=mail.tietoverkot.net. [195.238.221.130], dsn=4.0.0, stat=Deferred: Connection timed out with mail.tietoverkot.net. Len Merikanto, Phone: +358968691950 Tietoverkot Oy Mobile: +358409008494 Munkkisaarenkatu 2 Fax: +358968691935 00150 Helsinki, Finland From dan at tangledhelix.com Thu May 10 17:13:43 2001 From: dan at tangledhelix.com (Dan Lowe) Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 11:13:43 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: remove this? In-Reply-To: <10052001.3@wanderer.local.jae.ddns.org>; from juergen.erhard@gmx.net on Thu, May 10, 2001 at 04:08:52AM +0200 References: <4.2.2.20010508124013.00bdf100@pop.mindspring.com> <15097.32382.674040.952521@anthem.wooz.org> <10052001.3@wanderer.local.jae.ddns.org> Message-ID: <20010510111343.A14103@tangledhelix.com> Previously, "J?rgen A. Erhard" said: > > PS: Wish I could remember the paper the List-Id header is described > in... was a draft extension to 2369. Mention here or on -devel, I > think. List-Id is discussed in RFC 2919. -d -- If a mute swears, does his mother wash his hands with soap? -George Carlin From Paul.Ondercin at motorola.com Thu May 10 17:16:30 2001 From: Paul.Ondercin at motorola.com (Ondercin Paul-O10322) Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 08:16:30 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Weird acting. Message-ID: > After succesfully installign mailman and old lists to it from > freebsd to > solaris8 i got 2 lists that just dont do anything when u try to get to > their admin interface. why is that? all other moved lists from freebsd > work fine until yesterday :) This sounds like the stale lockfile issue. Look through the archives of this maillist for more details of what is happening, why and patch. It's all discussed there. But basically, if you delete the lock files in your mailman/Mailman/locks directory you should be able to get in again. Regards, Paul Ondercin Enterprise Messaging OneIT Motorola --- "You can't outrun a Motorola." -Elwood Blues, Blues Brothers From mrbill at mrbill.net Thu May 10 18:49:03 2001 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 11:49:03 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] "exception reading qfile" ? Message-ID: <20010510114903.K7943@mrbill.net> Seeing a lot of this but it doesent seem to be affecting anything.. : May 10 11:46:04 2001 (21071) Exception reading qfile: /usr/local/mailman/qfiles/130461b8dcdde46a1be4468a21cdd61dea444deb [Errno 2] No such file or directory: '/usr/local/mailman/qfiles/130461b8dcdde46a1be4468a21cdd61dea444deb.db' May 10 11:46:04 2001 (21071) Exception reading qfile: /usr/local/mailman/qfiles/fa9505d61b4a724fe50e29fb9a0a0d622c2d36ce [Errno 2] No such file or directory: '/usr/local/mailman/qfiles/fa9505d61b4a724fe50e29fb9a0a0d622c2d36ce.db' May 10 11:47:08 2001 (21103) Exception reading qfile: /usr/local/mailman/qfiles/32cc45c1b567ea4a21478ea362d26fe7cfae5560 [Errno 2] No such file or directory: '/usr/local/mailman/qfiles/32cc45c1b567ea4a21478ea362d26fe7cfae5560.db' May 10 11:47:08 2001 (21103) Exception reading qfile: /usr/local/mailman/qfiles/130461b8dcdde46a1be4468a21cdd61dea444deb [Errno 2] No such file or directory: '/usr/local/mailman/qfiles/130461b8dcdde46a1be4468a21cdd61dea444deb.db' May 10 11:47:08 2001 (21103) Exception reading qfile: /usr/local/mailman/qfiles/fa9505d61b4a724fe50e29fb9a0a0d622c2d36ce [Errno 2] No such file or directory: '/usr/local/mailman/qfiles/fa9505d61b4a724fe50e29fb9a0a0d622c2d36ce.db' -- Bill Bradford mrbill at mrbill.net Austin, TX From maillist at blitzen.net Thu May 10 22:51:29 2001 From: maillist at blitzen.net (Steve Lee) Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 13:51:29 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Mailman-Users] error trying to unsubscribe Message-ID: I'm trying to unsubscribe around 300 users off a mailling list using a text file list of users with the remove_members command and i get this error. remove_members -f remove_list.txt listname any ideas ? before setting up mailman i tested this feature and it worked. now when i'm really in need of this feature it does not work . Please help. Traceback (innermost last): File "bin/remove_members", line 128, in ? main() File "bin/remove_members", line 106, in main mlist = MailList.MailList(listname) File "/home/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 77, in __init__ self.Lock() File "/home/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 1338, in Lock self.__lock.lock(timeout) File "/home/mailman/Mailman/LockFile.py", line 286, in lock self.__sleep() File "/home/mailman/Mailman/LockFile.py", line 424, in __sleep time.sleep(interval) KeyboardInterrupt From lww at ictech.net Fri May 11 02:26:05 2001 From: lww at ictech.net (Bill Warner) Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 19:26:05 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: remove this? In-Reply-To: References: <4.3.1.2.20010509144026.00bdf500@pop.ictech.net> Message-ID: <4.3.1.2.20010510142705.00bea5d0@pop.ictech.net> At 03:13 PM 5/9/01 -0700, Chuq Von Rospach wrote: >On 5/9/01 1:33 PM, "Bill Warner" wrote: > > > OTOH, a strident "hack it or take a hike" anti-configuration stance (some > > of the messages in the archive are downright hostile) actually makes it > > harder for me, and others, to migrate towards full 2369 compliance, which > > means it ain't gonna happen anytime soon. > >Why? It creates dialog, which fosters education. IMO, there are better ways to foster discussion & education. The problem with zealotry is that it is more likely to alienate people than it is to convince them. >Heck, you'd have done that anyway -- but now you know why they're there >and why we want them there, and you're doing it anyway. That's a net >positive towards adoption, because at least you're making an informed (if, >IMHO, wrong) choice. After further reading I've come to the conclusion that this notion that making the List-* headers optional will inhibit their adoption is a red herring. A number of MUAs already have, or said they will, implement support for these headers including Eudora. The "List-Id" RFC (http://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc2919.txt), which is a follow-on to RFC 2369 (http://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc2369.txt), was even written by a couple of guys at Qualcomm. If Eudora supports this you can bet Micro$oft will too, in some form, and then claim they invented it of course. So, adoption already seems to be underway. And even if it wasn't, I simply don't believe that having a few Mailman admins turning these headers off on some of their lists would make any difference at all to the likes of Qualcomm, Micro$oft, or AOL. In fact, I seriously doubt that they care about anything that Mailman does or doesn't do. Even the authors of the revered RFC 2369 say, quite clearly I might add, that each individual List-* header should be optional on a per-list basis (http://www.nisto.com/listspec/server-author.html): "The list administrator should be able to turn individual header fields on or off on a per-list basis." The defense rests. --Bill PS - Hey, maybe those of us who think that making the List-* headers optional is a Good Thing(tm) aren't so stupid after all! --Bill From mgallo at clark.fix.net Fri May 11 03:36:03 2001 From: mgallo at clark.fix.net (M. Gallo) Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 18:36:03 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] My upgrade broke Mailman Message-ID: <20010510183603.D1481@clark.fix.net> After upgrading from Mailman v.1 to v.2.0.5, my mailing lists have stopped working. Mail sent to a list does not get delivered, archived, or even bounced back. Neither locks nor log entries are generated. check_perms shows no errors. I've tried to make clean and reinstall multiple times, but to no avail. Any idea what's going on or where to look next? -- M. Gallo mgallo at fix.net Network Operations Engineer voice: 805/781.6301 fax: 805/781.6485 The FIX Network, Inc. "Worldwide Technology - Hometown Service & Support" (sm) From juha at saarinen.org Fri May 11 03:48:05 2001 From: juha at saarinen.org (Juha Saarinen) Date: Fri, 11 May 2001 13:48:05 +1200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] My upgrade broke Mailman In-Reply-To: <20010510183603.D1481@clark.fix.net> Message-ID: :: After upgrading from Mailman v.1 to v.2.0.5, my mailing lists have :: stopped working. Mail sent to a list does not get delivered, :: archived, or even bounced back. Neither locks nor log entries are :: generated. check_perms shows no errors. :: :: I've tried to make clean and reinstall multiple times, but to no :: avail. Any idea what's going on or where to look next? Sounds like an MTA problem -- which mailer are you using? -- Juha From clawson at linux.jungle.ottawa.on.ca Tue May 8 05:41:20 2001 From: clawson at linux.jungle.ottawa.on.ca (Chris Lawson) Date: Mon, 07 May 2001 23:41:20 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] No errors, just a thank you message Message-ID: ...for a phenomenal bit of software. I particularly like the installation instructions and the detailed yet understandable error messages that helped me get through the whole wrapper/gid hell, something I was never able to do with majordomo. I'm a linux newbie and usually struggle with installing anything that requires more than rpm -Uvh. Your installer and your instructions made things a lot easier. Thanks. cmkl -- Chris Lawson, Jungle Internet www.jungle.ca | clawson at jungle.ca From marco at tols.org Tue May 8 09:37:47 2001 From: marco at tols.org (Marco van Tol) Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 09:37:47 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Maybe this is a FAQ, I'm not sure In-Reply-To: <20918.989301402@kanga.nu>; from claw@kanga.nu on Mon, May 07, 2001 at 10:56:42PM -0700 References: <20010507113532.D5262@tols.org> <20918.989301402@kanga.nu> Message-ID: <20010508093747.A5973@tols.org> On Mon, May 07, 2001 at 10:56:42PM -0700, J C Lawrence wrote: > On Mon, 7 May 2001 11:35:32 +0200 > Marco van Tol wrote: > > > Hi, In the past I have tried to run a maillist using MajorDomo, > > but couldn't get it to prevent external people from mailing to > > lists by telnetting to port 25 of the mail server claiming to be > > anybody that is inside the list. > > Given the current state of deployed technology, there is no proper > handling for this except hand moderatorating the list. SMTP/TLS is > a potenial long term address, but its current use is small and > there's no guarantee that they chain of authentication extends back > to the original sender. > OK, I spent some time trying to think of something myself, but couldn't come up with something good. I'll keep an eye on SMTP/TLS, after finding out what it is to start with. ;-) Thank you for your reply. Marco van Tol -- Marco van Tol [mailto:marco at tols.org] [http://www.tols.org] A baby is an alimentary canal with a loud voice at one end and no responsibility at the other. From bakyh at etri.re.kr Tue May 8 12:54:52 2001 From: bakyh at etri.re.kr (bakyh at etri.re.kr) Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 19:54:52 +0900 Subject: [Mailman-Users] hi~ i have a question about mailman prog. Message-ID: <766FA1FC5C2AD511B3C800D0B7A8AC4A1BFCE0@cms3.etri.re.kr> hi, i'm korean. i just installed a mailman prog, and it is successful to send msg to mailing list, and received it. but i met a terrible problem that i can't read msg in web pages. i think, its reason is that in part of web, can't decoding msg. how can i see my msg in korean? do i change charset? how? (euc-kr?) and original msg appear twice. first is normal, second is HTML format. i want just normal msg. how can i do? thank, in advance. Bak, yuhyeon -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20010508/cf85806f/attachment.html From tvh at w4b.dk Tue May 8 17:13:59 2001 From: tvh at w4b.dk (Thomas von Hassel) Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 17:13:59 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Translation of mailman Message-ID: Hi Is there a way to translate the messeges ppl get when the get automated mail from the listserver. like the password reminder, the wellcome note etc. There in english but most my users are danish so it would be great if u could localize it. /Thomas -- Thomas von Hassel Web4Business ApS Paghs All? 28 Tlf: 70 25 17 70 Fax: 70 25 17 80 Web: http://www.w4b.dk From daniel at yipyip.com Tue May 8 23:04:39 2001 From: daniel at yipyip.com (Daniel Einspanjer) Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 17:04:39 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem with mailinglist/archives. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hrm.. I didn't realize that you had other lists that were already operating on this box. there is only one crontab.in file that handles all the work for mailman. A couple more ideas that you might want to investigate: * Did you run move_list on the new list? If it hangs, make sure you don't have any stale lock files. * Check your syslog and cron logs to see if the cron job is running into a problem on this list. Hope this helps. Daniel On Tue, 8 May 2001 13:45:37 -0700 (PDT), Tib wrote: Is there a cron job specificly for each list or is there just one global mailman cron archive activity? The archives for the other mailing lists I have work fine - it's just this one that never updates. Tib On Tue, 8 May 2001, Daniel Einspanjer wrote: > Have you checked to see if you have a cron job to do the archival on your new machine? > > Daniel > > On Mon, 7 May 2001 18:41:26 -0700 (PDT), Tib wrote: > I'm running a mailing list with about 150 users. It's fairly low traffic. It > was transfered from one machine to another, and I imported the .mbox file from > the old server, and all appeared to be well. I've noticed now though that while > messages do get through and distributed - the archives are no longer being > updated for that list. I've blown it away and recreated it several times, but > still it hasn't fixed it. Suggestions? running the check_perms script found no > problems, but I saw that a lot of files (not just for this list) were owned by > root, so I fixed those with no noticable impact on anything. > > > Tib > > > ------------------------------------------------------ > Mailman-Users maillist - Mailman-Users at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users > From omega at pangea.org Wed May 9 15:47:33 2001 From: omega at pangea.org (Daniel) Date: Wed, 09 May 2001 15:47:33 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Spanish Mailman Translation Message-ID: <3AF94A75.32C37E6@pangea.org> Hello, Greeting from Pangea, an alternative node (www.pangea.org) in Barcelona that provides Internet services for non-profits. We use mailman for the list server for our users, mainly NGOs and Civil Society organisations and movements from Spain and Latin America. We are translating the Mailman to Spanish. We would like to make it available to you to save you some work in your future translation into Spanish. We are working with the version v2.0rc. I suggest we send you what we have done already. Perhaps you can suggest the best way of integrating this into the latest version. We look forward to colaborating with you soon. Regards, omega at pangea.org Daniel. Pangea Team www.pangea.org From blaise at scadian.net Wed May 9 15:19:35 2001 From: blaise at scadian.net (blaise at scadian.net) Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 09:19:35 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: remove this? In-Reply-To: ; from chuqui@plaidworks.com on Tue, May 08, 2001 at 11:32:54PM -0700 References: <4.3.1.2.20010508214215.00bc95c0@pop.ictech.net> Message-ID: <20010509091935.A24979@scadian.net> On Tue, May 08, 2001 at 11:32:54PM -0700, Chuq Von Rospach wrote: > > > It has always seemed childish to me for > > someone to reply to a message only to say, in essence, "I know the answer > > to your question but I'm not going to tell you because you are either not > > worthy enough in some way, or I think you are going to do something silly > > with the information." Why not just answer the question, or ignore it? > > We did answer the question -- just not with the answer you wanted. If we > ignore it, it just gets asked again, louder, with a "why are you idiots > ignoring me?" whine attached... No, you didn't answer it -- you responded to it without answering it. -- Jim Trigg /"\ SKA Blaise de Cormeilles \ / ASCII RIBBON CAMPAIGN Hostmaster X HELP CURE HTML MAIL Academy of S. Gabriel / \ From donal.hunt2 at mail.dcu.ie Wed May 9 17:34:39 2001 From: donal.hunt2 at mail.dcu.ie (donal.hunt2 at mail.dcu.ie) Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 08:34:39 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re=3A=20=5BMailman=2DUsers=5D=20purge=20pending=20submittion=20from=20comma?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?nd=20line=3F?= Message-ID: <3AF8678600000A2A@hawk.dcu.ie> Attached is a script that i wrote a week or two ago to do exactly that. you might need to edit the top line to reflect the location of python on your system. I had the script sitting in ~mailman/bin on my system and it worked quite happily. If you want to run it in cron, schedule it to run just before mailman sends out administrative reminders to the moderator/owner of the list. That way there is little chance of the moderators getting mails about pending requests. Regards Donal On Tue, 08 May 2001 21:06:36 +0900 ISO-2022-JP wrote: > > Is there any way to manually process the pending request from > > command line? > > Delete the relevant files from ~mailman/data/ > > -- > J C Lawrence claw at kanga.nu > ---------(*) http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/ > The pressure to survive and rhetoric may make strange bedfellows > > --------------------------------------------------------------- -------------- next part -------------- An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: clear_requests Url: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20010509/beb7a4a7/attachment.pot From marc_news at valinux.com Wed May 9 20:13:51 2001 From: marc_news at valinux.com (Marc MERLIN) Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 11:13:51 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem with Sender Info In-Reply-To: <013301c0d776$45165c60$0200010a@home.beeze.com>; from techgrrl@beeze.com on Mon, May 07, 2001 at 09:20:52PM -0700 References: <013301c0d776$45165c60$0200010a@home.beeze.com> Message-ID: <20010509111351.M29713@magic.merlins.org> On Mon, May 07, 2001 at 09:20:52PM -0700, Sarah K. Miller wrote: > I run a server with about 80 lists on it. Everything goes smoothly until > the monthly reminder is sent out on the first of the month. Every > outgoing message indicates the "Sender" is the same list-owner, > regardless of which list the subscriber was actually a member of. For > example, I have a lists named blah1 at domain.org, blah2 at domain.org and > blah3 at domain.org. The monthly reminder shows every message to have a > "sender" of blah2-owner at domain.org. This causes the undeliverable messages > from all 80 lists to land in the lap of some poor unsuspecting list > administrator who has no clue why they're getting bounces from people who > aren't on their list. I would like to change the default "Sender" to be yep, that's annoying. I've found that mailman uses the first list that was ever created (probably does a readdir and picks the first list in ~mailman/lists) I created the very first list to be test, and the owner is an alias that gets aliases to a file on disk. After the first of the month, I run the attached script on that mailbox (after manually removing vacation messages), and feed all the resulting Emails into remove_members -f - _alllists_ Mailman should however make the envelope and header senders of reminder Emails configurable (I'd want both of them to be distinct) Marc PS: you need the remove_members patch from https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&aid=413257&group_id=103&atid=300103 -- Microsoft is to operating systems & security .... .... what McDonalds is to gourmet cooking Home page: http://marc.merlins.org/ | Finger marc_f at merlins.org for PGP key -------------- next part -------------- #!/usr/bin/perl -w # Extract Emails from a mailbox with bounces (remove vacation autoresponders # first) -- Marc 2001/05/02 use strict; my @mb; my $line; my %mails; my $key; die "$0 mailbox" if (not defined $ARGV[0]); open (MB, $ARGV[0]) or die "Can't open $ARGV[0]: $!"; # Actually RFC 822 says Emails can have spaces, but I don't want to deal # with that. @mb=grep(/[\s'"<=;(:][^\s'"<=;(:]+@[^\s'">]+\.[^\s'">;:)]+[\s'">;:)]/, ); close (MB); @mb=grep (!/usw-sf-/i, @mb); @mb=grep (!/sourceforge.net/i, @mb); @mb=grep (!/message-id/i, @mb); @mb=grep (!/reference/i, @mb); @mb=grep (!/ESMTP id/i, @mb); @mb=grep (!/id ]+\.[^\s'">,;:)\.]+)[\s'">,;:)\.]?.*/$1/; #print $line."\n"; $mails{lc($line)}=1; } foreach $key (sort keys %mails) { print $key."\n"; } From claw at 2wire.com Wed May 9 23:43:09 2001 From: claw at 2wire.com (J C Lawrence) Date: Wed, 09 May 2001 14:43:09 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Off-Topic: WebMail recommendations? In-Reply-To: Message from Dave Melton of "Wed, 09 May 2001 13:12:26 PDT." References: Message-ID: <11322.989444589@2wire.com> On Wed, 9 May 2001 13:12:26 -0700 (PDT) Dave Melton wrote: > Since this group really seems to know its stuff, I'd like to ask > for recommendations for a webmail server that will run on the same > RHL7 machine as my Mailman installations. I like and use Twig: http://twig.screwdriver.net/ Other options I've examined: IMP: http://www.horde.org/imp/ AeroMail: http://the.cushman.net/projects/aeromail/ SquirrelMail: http://www.squirrelmail.org/index.php3 WorldPilot: http://sourceforge.net/projects/worldpilot/ BmpMail: http://www.bmpsystems.com/ -- J C Lawrence claw at kanga.nu ---------(*) http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/ The pressure to survive and rhetoric may make strange bedfellows From marc_news at valinux.com Thu May 10 00:18:19 2001 From: marc_news at valinux.com (Marc MERLIN) Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 15:18:19 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Call for suggestions In-Reply-To: <3AF87418.E62EC0AF@pcraft.com>; from ashley@pcraft.com on Tue, May 08, 2001 at 04:32:56PM -0600 References: <3AF87AC2.F6A9BFCF@pcraft.com> <3AF87418.E62EC0AF@pcraft.com> Message-ID: <20010509151818.U29713@magic.merlins.org> On Tue, May 08, 2001 at 04:32:56PM -0600, Ashley M. Kirchner wrote: > > I want to setup multiple servers running (the same) mailman lists. > The ways I can think of doing this is either: Been there, done that, didn't work. > Option 1: > Setup a master machine with everything on it and export the > mailman structure for NFS so the other machines can mount it, > and use it. > > Problem: What happens if the NFS connection dies? Msgs get > lost. That's not desirable. They don't get lost, connections just hang, you take the server off the rotation, it's not that bad. NFS didn't work though because under high load, while each server had its own queue directory and was running its own qrunner, mailman processes had concurent access to the list config.db files (which have to be shared). Even though the mailman locking is well done, it hit races in NFS. See: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2000-November/007618.html (read the thread) http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2000-November/007942.html http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-developers/2000-December/003383.html (read thread) > Option 2: > Have the remote machines mirror the master (through [s]ftp or > [s]rcp). This will avoid having to deal with NFS dropping. > > Problem: The files won't be as up-to-date as the master, unless > one starts mirroring continuously, which would be > ridiculous. You will have problems with config.db files not being up to date. The only thing that's actually really slow in mailman is qrunner because it's single threaded, and most of the problems come from the HTML archiving in pipermail. If you disable HTML archiving, or archiving altogether, even if qrunner is single threaded, you can deliver lots of Email with mailman (about half a million per day accross 10,000 lists for SF) on a single machine. I haven't given up on the shared spool over NFS though for failover reasons more than performance. Marc -- Microsoft is to operating systems & security .... .... what McDonalds is to gourmet cooking Home page: http://marc.merlins.org/ | Finger marc_f at merlins.org for PGP key From tmh at magenta-netlogic.com Thu May 10 01:08:23 2001 From: tmh at magenta-netlogic.com (Tony Hoyle) Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 00:08:23 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Users] I think my list is corrupt... Message-ID: <3AF9CDE7.6080804@magenta-netlogic.com> Mailman keeps trying to send me error messages every couple of minutes. I've run all the check_db etc. scripts and they say everything is OK. The message I get is: Subject: Cron [ -x /usr/bin/python -a -f /usr/lib/mailman/cron/qrunner ] && /usr/bin/python /usr/lib/mailman/cron/qrunner X-Cron-Env: X-Cron-Env: X-Cron-Env: X-Cron-Env: Message-Id: <20010509224901.6035C385E6 at mail.cvsnt.org> Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 23:49:01 +0100 (BST) X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS perl-11 Traceback (innermost last): File "/usr/lib/mailman/cron/qrunner", line 84, in ? from Mailman import Utils File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Utils.py", line 32, in ? import random ValueError: bad marshal data Tony -- "Two weeks before due date, the programmers work 22 hour days cobbling an application from... (apparently) one programmer bashing his face into the keyboard." -- Dilbert tmh at magenta-netlogic.com http://www.nothing-on.tv From ijackson at chiark.greenend.org.uk Thu May 10 12:33:16 2001 From: ijackson at chiark.greenend.org.uk (Ian Jackson) Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 11:33:16 +0100 (BST) Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: suEXEC & Mailman In-Reply-To: <3AFA5DEB.C2F5C5F9@ore.org> References: <3AFA5DEB.C2F5C5F9@ore.org> Message-ID: <15098.28268.196132.851663@chiark.greenend.org.uk> Kyrian writes ("[Mailman-Users] Re: suEXEC & Mailman"): > Because I was using suexec to run mailman's CGI's, and not running the > entire webserver as the required UID/GID, they were failing with (500?) > Server Errors, and not putting anything into the standard httpd error > log files. ... > All of which require recompilation of the suexec binary, ... > Anyway, to Tauren's specific idea... I don't think it's exactly possible > without having a full, custom-compiled mailman implementation, set up to > run as the same UID as the client's virtual hosts already run under. ... > Alternatively, you could (although this would mean mailman still runs as > mailman:mailman, but it would work) compile up some wrapper executables > for all of the mailman CGI's which are suid to mailman:mailman, within > the virtual host for each of your clients, and put them in each client's > cgi directories. At this point I think I should plug GNU userv (pron. `you-serve') It is, according to the documentation: a Unix system facility to allow one program to invoke another when only limited trust exists between them. One of the things it's good for is avoiding having to compile up setuid wrapper programs (and get all the resulting security problems). You could almost certainly use it to solve your problem above, with just a simple bit of configuration in /etc/userv. It's GPL'd and available from GNU mirrors, or from my website at http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~ian/userv/ Disclaimer: I've not tried applying userv to Mailman's security situation. I've been wanting to ditch the setuid wrapper that comes with the Debian install that I've been using, but haven't had time to sort it out. Ian. From dan.mick at west.sun.com Fri May 11 00:11:26 2001 From: dan.mick at west.sun.com (Dan Mick) Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 15:11:26 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] error trying to unsubscribe References: Message-ID: <3AFB120E.4A93D60F@west.sun.com> You interrupted it while it was waiting for the list lock. If it seems to be waiting a *long* time (like more than 5 minutes, say) maybe you have a stale lock. Check ~mailman/locks, and check to see that the processes that got them (their PID is in the filename) are gone or not; if they're gone, remove the lock files and try again. Steve Lee wrote: > > I'm trying to unsubscribe around 300 users > off a mailling list using a text file list > of users with the remove_members command and > i get this error. > > remove_members -f remove_list.txt listname > any ideas ? before setting up mailman > i tested this feature and it worked. > now when i'm really in need of this feature > it does not work . > > Please help. > > Traceback (innermost last): > File "bin/remove_members", line 128, in ? > main() > File "bin/remove_members", line 106, in main > mlist = MailList.MailList(listname) > File "/home/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 77, in __init__ > self.Lock() > File "/home/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 1338, in Lock > self.__lock.lock(timeout) > File "/home/mailman/Mailman/LockFile.py", line 286, in lock > self.__sleep() > File "/home/mailman/Mailman/LockFile.py", line 424, in __sleep > time.sleep(interval) > KeyboardInterrupt > > ------------------------------------------------------ > Mailman-Users maillist - Mailman-Users at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users From dan.mick at west.sun.com Fri May 11 02:32:25 2001 From: dan.mick at west.sun.com (Dan Mick) Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 17:32:25 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: remove this? References: <4.3.1.2.20010509144026.00bdf500@pop.ictech.net> <4.3.1.2.20010510142705.00bea5d0@pop.ictech.net> Message-ID: <3AFB3319.447E022E@west.sun.com> > After further reading I've come to the conclusion that this notion that > making the List-* headers optional will inhibit their adoption is a red > herring. A number of MUAs already have, or said they will, implement > support for these headers including Eudora. So you have no problem. So why are you complaining about them? You can't have it both ways. > PS - Hey, maybe those of us who think that making the List-* headers > optional is a Good Thing(tm) aren't so stupid after all! Or maybe that set of people is merely misguided. Who knows? From claw at kanga.nu Fri May 11 07:59:09 2001 From: claw at kanga.nu (J C Lawrence) Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 22:59:09 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] hi~ i have a question about mailman prog. In-Reply-To: Message from bakyh@etri.re.kr of "Tue, 08 May 2001 19:54:52 +0900." <766FA1FC5C2AD511B3C800D0B7A8AC4A1BFCE0@cms3.etri.re.kr> References: <766FA1FC5C2AD511B3C800D0B7A8AC4A1BFCE0@cms3.etri.re.kr> Message-ID: <7493.989560749@kanga.nu> On Tue, 8 May 2001 19:54:52 +0900 bakyh wrote: > i met a terrible problem that i can't read msg in web pages. i > think, its reason is that in part of web, can't decoding msg. how > can i see my msg in korean? do i change charset? how? (euc-kr?) Mailman's internal archiver (pipermail) does not support MIME or charsets at this point. You are going to need to use an external archiver which fully supports both MIME and charsets to properly handle Korean email. I suggest looking into MHonArc. -- J C Lawrence claw at kanga.nu ---------(*) http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/ The pressure to survive and rhetoric may make strange bedfellows From admin at obrienpc.net Fri May 11 08:54:26 2001 From: admin at obrienpc.net (Administration) Date: Fri, 11 May 2001 01:54:26 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] HELP!! Message-ID: I administer a list with your service. It is called ALERT and the e-mail address is alert at obrienpc.net I have a problem. Every time I or anyone else sends a post, I get a notice stating that I have to approve the post in order for it to go through. I've checked all settings many times and to the best of my ability, I do not have any function prohibiting posts unless approved by me. I would like for posts to go through automatically. What do I need to do? Respectfully, James O'Brien Owner, O'BrienPC Integrated Computing Services www.obrienpc.net -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20010511/cc857d13/attachment.html From johnm at ic5.net Fri May 11 11:47:29 2001 From: johnm at ic5.net (John McGarrigle) Date: Fri, 11 May 2001 10:47:29 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Users] mm_cfg.py Options? Message-ID: Hey, What options are available in this file? I wish to change the default hostname for the list, so I added; DEFAULT_HOST_NAME = 'lists.ic5.net' That solves *some* of the problems, but it still wants to use my machines default hostname for some other options.. such as the mailman-owner@ address on the listinfo page.. I have searched for documentation on this, but found very little... I would appreciate any help you could give me :) ---- John 'Neuron' McGarrigle Email: johnm at ic5.net ICQ: 18220396 Phone: +44 (0)7944 604 644 ---- From pug at pug.net Fri May 11 14:28:41 2001 From: pug at pug.net (Pug Bainter) Date: Fri, 11 May 2001 07:28:41 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] mm_cfg.py Options? In-Reply-To: ; from johnm@ic5.net on Fri, May 11, 2001 at 10:47:29AM +0100 References: Message-ID: <20010511072841.A28199@stardock.pug.net> John McGarrigle (johnm at ic5.net) said something that sounded like: > What options are available in this file? They are in Defaults.py. If they do not exist in mm_cfg.py, they will be used from the Defaults.py file. Ciao, -- Pug Bainter | AMD, Inc. System Engineer, MTS | Mail Stop 625 Pug.Bainter at amd.com | pug at pug.net | 5900 E. Ben White Blvd Phone: (512) 602-0364 | Fax: (512) 602-6970 | Austin, TX 78741 Note: The views may not reflect my employers, or even my own for that matter. From johnm at ic5.net Fri May 11 14:35:51 2001 From: johnm at ic5.net (John McGarrigle) Date: Fri, 11 May 2001 13:35:51 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Users] mm_cfg.py Options? In-Reply-To: <20010511072841.A28199@stardock.pug.net> Message-ID: Much appreciated, Thanks! ---- John 'Neuron' McGarrigle Email: johnm at ic5.net ICQ: 18220396 Phone: +44 (0)7944 604 644 ---- -----Original Message----- From: mailman-users-admin at python.org [mailto:mailman-users-admin at python.org]On Behalf Of Pug Bainter Sent: 11 May 2001 1:29 PM To: John McGarrigle Cc: mailman-users at python.org Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] mm_cfg.py Options? John McGarrigle (johnm at ic5.net) said something that sounded like: > What options are available in this file? They are in Defaults.py. If they do not exist in mm_cfg.py, they will be used from the Defaults.py file. Ciao, -- Pug Bainter | AMD, Inc. System Engineer, MTS | Mail Stop 625 Pug.Bainter at amd.com | pug at pug.net | 5900 E. Ben White Blvd Phone: (512) 602-0364 | Fax: (512) 602-6970 | Austin, TX 78741 Note: The views may not reflect my employers, or even my own for that matter. ------------------------------------------------------ Mailman-Users maillist - Mailman-Users at python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users From lww at ictech.net Fri May 11 15:13:25 2001 From: lww at ictech.net (Bill Warner) Date: Fri, 11 May 2001 08:13:25 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: remove this? In-Reply-To: <3AFB3319.447E022E@west.sun.com> References: <4.3.1.2.20010509144026.00bdf500@pop.ictech.net> <4.3.1.2.20010510142705.00bea5d0@pop.ictech.net> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010511080907.00a84500@pop.ictech.net> At 05:32 PM 5/10/01 -0700, Dan Mick wrote: >So you have no problem. So why are you complaining about them? >You can't have it both ways. No. I said that adoption was underway. I didn't say it was complete. Besides, there are other reasons to make the 2369 headers optional in addition to the short-term MUA issues and the associated user truculence. People use real lists in a variety of ways. In some of those situations it just doesn't make sense to be sending the whole set of 2369 headers to a list, and I don't think that it is possible to anticipate, and code for, all of the possible variations. Only the list admin can determine which subset of the 2369 headers makes sense in light of the policies, procedures, and needs of a particular list. The authors of RFC 2369 recognize this. The bottom line disagreement seems to be that some folks think that list admins are not capable of making that decision in a responsible way. I happen to think that they are. Especially if we work to educate them about the benefits of 2369 instead of immediately castigating them for asking the question. >Or maybe that set of people is merely misguided. Who knows? Then we are in good company with the misguided authors of RFC 2369. I can live with that. --Bill From wiler at ucpri.org Fri May 11 11:55:41 2001 From: wiler at ucpri.org (Jack Mendez) Date: Fri, 11 May 2001 09:55:41 +0000 Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman config Message-ID: hey there. i am considering using mail man as my list processor. however, i have a configuration issue which is probably unique. my mal and web servers are on two different machines. how can i use mail man while still have the mail server and web server on two different machine and still have the web configuration tools available? thank Jack From hillson at iastate.edu Fri May 11 16:41:42 2001 From: hillson at iastate.edu (Thomas Hillson) Date: Fri, 11 May 2001 09:41:42 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: remove this? In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20010509144026.00bdf500@pop.ictech.net> References: <4.3.1.2.20010508214215.00bc95c0@pop.ictech.net> <30076.989364432@kanga.nu> <4.3.1.2.20010508214215.00bc95c0@pop.ictech.net> <4.3.1.2.20010509144026.00bdf500@pop.ictech.net> Message-ID: Bill, I must commend you for your continued discussions with the developers of Mailman over the issue of the headers. I lost patients with them long before you did. Like you I am a user of Mailman, and I do not want to fight with the people who think these headers are needed. I would just like to see a little more flexibility in the way we can configure each individual list. Until they provide us with the flexibility, we will just have to continue to hack their software to give some control. I do not have the time to learn enough about Mailman to write a patch to selectively turn the headers off. My solution is to comment out all code for the headers so they do not appear on any of my lists. To the programmers of Mailman, Please listen to Bill, myself and the many other people who have requested the flexibility to turn off the headers for selected mailing lists. We are not asking you to remove code for the headers from Mailman. We are not asking you to stop promoting their use so that all mail programs will recognize them and handle them correctly. We are asking you to give us the option to turn off individual headers on some of out lists where we have determined they are inappropriate. thank you, Tom From rogerk at QueerNet.ORG Fri May 11 16:43:57 2001 From: rogerk at QueerNet.ORG (Roger B.A. Klorese) Date: Fri, 11 May 2001 07:43:57 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: remove this? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 11 May 2001, Thomas Hillson wrote: > We are asking you to give us the option to turn off individual headers on some > of out lists where we have determined they are inappropriate. How far does that go? Should you be allowed to turn off the "To:" header if you want? "Subject:"? "Date:"? -- ROGER B.A. KLORESE rogerk at QueerNet.ORG PO Box 14309 San Francisco, CA 94114 "There is only one real blasphemy -- the refusal of joy!" -- Paul Rudnick From dan at ssc.com Fri May 11 16:48:01 2001 From: dan at ssc.com (Dan Wilder) Date: Fri, 11 May 2001 07:48:01 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: remove this? In-Reply-To: ; from rogerk@QueerNet.ORG on Fri, May 11, 2001 at 07:43:57AM -0700 References: Message-ID: <20010511074801.A30604@ssc.com> On Fri, May 11, 2001 at 07:43:57AM -0700, Roger B.A. Klorese wrote: > On Fri, 11 May 2001, Thomas Hillson wrote: > > We are asking you to give us the option to turn off individual headers on some > > of out lists where we have determined they are inappropriate. > > How far does that go? Should you be allowed to turn off the "To:" header > if you want? "Subject:"? "Date:"? Sure! Let 'em paint their own nose blue, if they want to. 'Course the MTA will add some of those back in. But that's not your concern. -- ----------------------------------------------------------------- Dan Wilder Technical Manager & Editor SSC, Inc. P.O. Box 55549 Phone: 206-782-8808 Seattle, WA 98155-0549 URL http://embedded.linuxjournal.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------------- From barry at digicool.com Fri May 11 16:53:49 2001 From: barry at digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw) Date: Fri, 11 May 2001 10:53:49 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: [Mailman-Developers] Qrunner error References: <3AFBEF23.AEF4668B@isu.edu> Message-ID: <15099.64766.425834.892330@anthem.wooz.org> >>>>> "W" == Webmaster writes: W> Does anyone know what this error means and how to fix it. W> Traceback (innermost last): | File "/home/mailman/cron/qrunner", line 78, in ? | import time W> ImportError: /usr/lib/python1.5/lib-dynload/timemodule.so: W> undefined symbol: PyErr_Format It looks to me like your Python installation is pretty broken. What Python version are you using? I'd suggest re-installing Python. -Barry From OmrPrt at aol.com Fri May 11 16:59:46 2001 From: OmrPrt at aol.com (OmrPrt at aol.com) Date: Fri, 11 May 2001 10:59:46 EDT Subject: [Mailman-Users] Question... Message-ID: <6a.e0c2c03.282d5862@aol.com> How do I make a list read only? Meaning I am the only one that can send out messages to the list, and no one else can post. Omar Portillo -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20010511/b63cacec/attachment.htm From Nigel.Metheringham at InTechnology.co.uk Fri May 11 17:07:25 2001 From: Nigel.Metheringham at InTechnology.co.uk (Nigel Metheringham) Date: Fri, 11 May 2001 16:07:25 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: remove this? In-Reply-To: Message from "Roger B.A. Klorese" of "Fri, 11 May 2001 07:43:57 PDT." Message-ID: rogerk at QueerNet.ORG said: > How far does that go? Should you be allowed to turn off the "To:" > header if you want? "Subject:"? "Date:"? Actually maybe this points to a better approach.... First we purely implement a fixed version of our list header cooking - no if (this) then add (that). Then late on in the processing pipeline we have a per-list configurable generic header stripper and adder with some form of basic programmability - ie basic regexp to select whether or not something is added/deleted, and the use of the mailman template variables. This would allow people enough rope to completely hang themselves, and add a reasonably useful additional feature in. It also means you don't need to add a bunch of extra buttons and configurability in for every header you might wish to add. And if people are stupid enough to modify the mime-headers based on this scheme, well they deserve all they get. Nigel. -- [ Nigel Metheringham Nigel.Metheringham at InTechnology.co.uk ] [ Phone: +44 1423 850000 Fax +44 1423 858866 ] [ - Comments in this message are my own and not ITO opinion/policy - ] From dan at ssc.com Fri May 11 17:15:34 2001 From: dan at ssc.com (Dan Wilder) Date: Fri, 11 May 2001 08:15:34 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman config In-Reply-To: ; from wiler@ucpri.org on Fri, May 11, 2001 at 09:55:41AM +0000 References: Message-ID: <20010511081534.B30604@ssc.com> On Fri, May 11, 2001 at 09:55:41AM +0000, Jack Mendez wrote: > hey there. > i am considering using mail man as my list processor. > however, i have a configuration issue which is probably > unique. > my mal and web servers are on two different machines. > how can i use mail man while still have the mail server and web server on two different machine and still have the web configuration tools available? > thank Let me know what solution you find to this. I'm in the same situation. Our list server is inside the firewall, the web servers are clear across the country. One option is to poke a hole through the firewall into a web server running on the mailing list machine, then proxy the mailman pages via the official web server. Another might be synchronize the subscriber list via a cron job. I've not investigated the alternatives as to how that might be done. -- ----------------------------------------------------------------- Dan Wilder Technical Manager & Editor SSC, Inc. P.O. Box 55549 Phone: 206-782-8808 Seattle, WA 98155-0549 URL http://embedded.linuxjournal.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------------- From chuqui at plaidworks.com Fri May 11 17:20:37 2001 From: chuqui at plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach) Date: Fri, 11 May 2001 08:20:37 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: remove this? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 5/11/01 8:07 AM, "Nigel Metheringham" wrote: > This would allow people enough rope to completely hang themselves, and > add a reasonably useful additional feature in. If this were a web system, I'd be all for it. But e-mail interacts with other email systems all over the internet. When you hose a mailman system, it affects the mail systems of all of the subscribers, which potentially hoses them AND the admins of THEIR mail servers. What you do to your own stuff I don't care about. But when your stuff has to safely and properly interact with other people's stuff as well -- you no longer have the right to be an idiot, just because you want to be. That's why SOME of these decisions have to be made by the people who know the issues, instead of run off and make decisions based on the "I wanna, so you gotta" style of management. From richarde at eskom.co.za Fri May 11 17:37:12 2001 From: richarde at eskom.co.za (Richard Ellerbrock) Date: Fri, 11 May 2001 17:37:12 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Explanation required after upgrade to 2.0.5 Message-ID: Resend to mailman-users as no response on developers list. *** cut *** I have just upgraded mailman from 1.1 to 2.0.5 - everything went smoothly, but I have some minor issues though. 1) When the news gate service tries to connect to a down NNTP server, ugly messages are logged in the error log. Maybe the fact should rather just be logged in the fromusenet log? Here is an example: Traceback (innermost last): File "/home/mailman/cron/gate_news", line 222, in ? main() File "/home/mailman/cron/gate_news", line 203, in main process_lists(lock) File "/home/mailman/cron/gate_news", line 148, in process_lists conn, first, last = open_newsgroup(mlist) File "/home/mailman/cron/gate_news", line 75, in open_newsgroup password=mm_cfg.NNTP_PASSWORD) File "/home/mailman/Mailman/pythonlib/nntplib.py", line 111, in __init__ self.sock.connect((self.host, self.port)) socket.error: (111, 'Connection refused') 2) I get another funny error also from the news gateway. I cannot explain it though: Traceback (innermost last): File "/home/mailman/cron/gate_news", line 222, in ? main() File "/home/mailman/cron/gate_news", line 203, in main process_lists(lock) File "/home/mailman/cron/gate_news", line 148, in process_lists conn, first, last = open_newsgroup(mlist) File "/home/mailman/cron/gate_news", line 75, in open_newsgroup password=mm_cfg.NNTP_PASSWORD) File "/home/mailman/Mailman/pythonlib/nntplib.py", line 114, in __init__ self.welcome = self.getresp() File "/home/mailman/Mailman/pythonlib/nntplib.py", line 180, in getresp resp = self.getline() File "/home/mailman/Mailman/pythonlib/nntplib.py", line 172, in getline if not line: raise EOFError EOFError 3) Something is funny with bounce detection. My test list has the following bounce options: Minimum number of posts to the list since members first bounce before we consider removing them from the list = 3 Action when critical or excessive bounces are detected = Remove and notify me The list also requires post approval from the moderator I get this in the log when sending a couple of message to the list with a bogus address that I added manually: May 07 17:41:00 2001 (8803) Test: kajshd at eskom.co.za - first May 08 09:01:01 2001 (29662) Test: kajshd at eskom.co.za - 1 more allowed over 376799 secs May 08 09:01:01 2001 (29662) Test: kajshd at eskom.co.za - 1 more allowed over 376799 secs May 08 09:15:01 2001 (32675) Test: kajshd at eskom.co.za - 0 more allowed over 375958 secs May 08 09:24:01 2001 (2018) Test: kajshd at eskom.co.za - 0 more allowed over 375418 secs I don't understand the sequence of numbers - why 0 0 then 1 1? The address does not get removed after three failures. I have sent more tests and they all say 0 more allowed - what gives? -- Richard Ellerbrock richarde at eskom.co.za From daddyboytoronto at hotmail.com Fri May 11 17:57:48 2001 From: daddyboytoronto at hotmail.com (daddyBoy Toronto) Date: Fri, 11 May 2001 11:57:48 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] egroups clone Message-ID: Looking to see if anyone has created a site that is similar or a clone of egroups using mailman as its list server? And is having success with the software. I am currently trying to create just that, and if anyone is interested in helping I am willing to share what I have created or hire someone to help with such a project either in perl or php.. Thanks Tim _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. From haisam at ido.org Fri May 11 18:45:34 2001 From: haisam at ido.org (Haisam K. Ido) Date: Fri, 11 May 2001 16:45:34 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [Mailman-Users] deleting pending requests Message-ID: On a mailing list which I maintain I have over 350 pending requests. Is there a way to delete them all without going throught the GUI? I am using version 1.1. Yes I will upgrade soon :-) Thanks in advance. Haisam Ido From lww at ictech.net Fri May 11 19:00:18 2001 From: lww at ictech.net (Bill Warner) Date: Fri, 11 May 2001 12:00:18 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: remove this? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010511104805.037b5e20@pop.ictech.net> At 08:20 AM 5/11/01 -0700, Chuq Von Rospach wrote: >But e-mail interacts with other email systems all over the internet. When >you hose a mailman system, it affects the mail systems of all of the >subscribers, which potentially hoses them AND the admins of THEIR mail >servers. But, with the exclusion of Nigel's generalized suggestion, what we've been talking about so far just doesn't do that. Leaving the List-Subscribe header, to take just one example, off of a closed list that doesn't accept public subscription requests is not going to hose anyones system. It will not affect the routing, transport, or delivery of the messages on that list or of anything else in the known universe. It will simply allow a list admin to use the List-* headers in the way that they were intended. Which is to allow the list admin to provide a useful and convenient tool to *his (or her) subscribers*, and at the same time reduce the headaches of being a list admin by reducing the number of "how do I unsubscribe"-type requests. >That's why SOME of these decisions have to be made by the people who know >the issues, instead of run off and make decisions based on the "I wanna, >so you gotta" style of management. I submit that Grant Neufeld is one "who know(s) the issues" well enough that his published statement ought to at least merit consideration. I personally think it merits more than that, but... It's not about "I wanna, so you gotta." I'm sorry if you see it that way. Neither should it be about "we're the experts, we did it right, and you peons don't know what you talking about." It is, at least I think it should be, about discussing the differing points of view and then making a decision that benefits the Mailman community as a whole. That community includes people outside the development circle. I've now spent a lot of time reading the threads about this issue back through the archive of this list, and I just don't see where that happened. As far as I can tell the decision was made early on, and once implemented anyone who questioned it was promptly stomped on. In any case, I believe that the case in favor of making the List-* headers configurable has been sufficiently made, and that Barry will indeed give it fair consideration. That's all I ask. I'm not demanding anything. So, now I really am done. Ya'll can carry on with this thread if you like, but I'm going to take a break and then see what kind of firestorm breaks out when I ask the other questions that I have on the back burner. Happy Mailmanning! --Bill ------ "The list administrator should be able to turn individual header fields on or off on a per-list basis." - Grant Neufeld, Author, RFC2369. http://www.nisto.com/listspec/server-author.html From lww at ictech.net Fri May 11 17:45:28 2001 From: lww at ictech.net (Bill Warner) Date: Fri, 11 May 2001 10:45:28 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: remove this? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010511100548.037a40a0@pop.ictech.net> At 07:43 AM 5/11/01 -0700, Roger B.A. Klorese wrote: >How far does that go? Should you be allowed to turn off the "To:" header >if you want? "Subject:"? "Date:"? Oh, please. Lets not get snide about this. We are talking about a very specific set of headers and you know it. We are talking about a set of headers that have their basis in RFC 2369. RFC 2369 is a *Proposed* Standard. It isn't even a Draft Standard, which is the phase that it will have to go through next before it can become a Standard Protocol. Even if it is eventually adopted as a Standard Protocol it will be *optional*. Even the authors of RFC 2369 agree that the use of these particular headers should be *optional* on a *per-list* basis. This simply doesn't compare to arbitrarily eliminating RFC 822 headers which are *required* by accepted standards. --Bill From steve at vision-games.com Fri May 11 21:59:00 2001 From: steve at vision-games.com (steve at vision-games.com) Date: Fri, 11 May 2001 15:59:00 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Looping/Forwarding Message-ID: For some reason, whenever a message is sent to my list's admin address, mailman then resends the message once a minute for half an hour or so. I have no idea why this is happening, has anyone else experienced this? At first I thought it might have been a mistake in my forwarders or auto responders, but there is nothing that forwards from the admin address, and I haven't set up any auto responders for it either. -Steve From mgallo at clark.fix.net Fri May 11 22:44:55 2001 From: mgallo at clark.fix.net (M. Gallo) Date: Fri, 11 May 2001 13:44:55 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] My upgrade broke Mailman In-Reply-To: ; from Juha Saarinen on Fri, May 11, 2001 at 01:48:05PM +1200 References: <20010510183603.D1481@clark.fix.net> Message-ID: <20010511134455.G1481@clark.fix.net> On Fri, May 11, 2001 at 01:48:05PM +1200, Juha Saarinen wrote: > :: After upgrading from Mailman v.1 to v.2.0.5, my mailing lists have > :: stopped working. Mail sent to a list does not get delivered, > :: archived, or even bounced back. Neither locks nor log entries are > :: generated. check_perms shows no errors. > :: > :: I've tried to make clean and reinstall multiple times, but to no > :: avail. Any idea what's going on or where to look next? > > Sounds like an MTA problem -- which mailer are you using? We're using sendmail, which is working in general. The outgoing email shows up in maillog, but that's the last trace of it. -- M. Gallo mgallo at fix.net Network Operations Engineer voice: 805/781.6301 fax: 805/781.6485 The FIX Network, Inc. "Worldwide Technology - Hometown Service & Support" (sm) From eschmitz at webbalah.net Sat May 12 00:12:00 2001 From: eschmitz at webbalah.net (Eric Schmitz) Date: Fri, 11 May 2001 17:12:00 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman newbie question Message-ID: <3AFC63B0.588D2788@webbalah.net> Greetings! I'm brand spankin' new to this list, but I already have a question. (I suppose that's why I joined!) Does anybody know of a way to easily convert an existing majordomo list to Mailman? Also, is there a FAQ somewhere for this list? Thanks! -Eric Schmitz From wrd at awenet.com Sat May 12 01:37:10 2001 From: wrd at awenet.com (William R. Dickson) Date: Fri, 11 May 2001 16:37:10 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Strange subscribe/confirm problem Message-ID: <200105112337.f4BNbA303948@repo-mac.awenet.com> Hi all, I'm having an odd problem with a newly-created list in a virtual domain. It's not happening with any of the lists in the other two virtual domains. Basically, when somebody subscribes via the form, they receive the response page indicating that they must confirm their subscription via email. However, if you check the subscribe log and sendmail's log, you see that the list is munging the string "-owner" into the subscriber's address -- i.e., my own address is munged to "wrd- owner at awenet.com". Any idea why this might be happening? I can't find any problems in aliases, Defaults.py, or the installation (which doesn't mean there aren't any, I just haven't found them). Thanks, -Bill From ashley at pcraft.com Sat May 12 03:43:35 2001 From: ashley at pcraft.com (Ashley M. Kirchner) Date: Fri, 11 May 2001 19:43:35 -0600 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Upgrade & Path Changes Message-ID: <3AFC9547.C695EE50@pcraft.com> I have a system running a list using an old version MM. We're re-installing MM in a different location and also using v2.0.5. Can I simply copy the ./lists and ./archives directories from the old installation into the new path and run bin/movelist on all the lists? (and fix mail aliases) -- H | Hi, I'm currently out of my mind. Please leave a message. BEEEEP! +-------------------------------------------------------------------- Ashley M. Kirchner . 303.442.6410 x130 Director of Internet Operations / SysAdmin . 800.441.3873 x130 Photo Craft Laboratories, Inc. . 3550 Arapahoe Ave, #6 http://www.pcraft.com ..... . . . Boulder, CO 80303, U.S.A. From haisam at ido.org Sat May 12 05:42:00 2001 From: haisam at ido.org (Haisam K. Ido) Date: Sat, 12 May 2001 03:42:00 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman newbie question In-Reply-To: <3AFC63B0.588D2788@webbalah.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 11 May 2001, Eric Schmitz wrote: > Greetings! > > I'm brand spankin' new to this list, but I already have a question. > (I suppose that's why I joined!) Does anybody know of a way to easily > convert an existing majordomo list to Mailman? > Also, is there a FAQ somewhere for this list? Thanks! Add members to a list from the command line. Usage: add_members [-n ] [-d ] [-c ] [-w ] [-h] listname Where: --non-digest-members-file -n A file containing addresses of the members to be added, one address per line. This list of people become non-digest members. If is `-', read addresses from stdin. --digest-members-file -d Similar to above, but these people become digest members. --changes-msg= -c set whether or not to send the list members the `there's going to be big changes to your list' message. defaults to no. --welcome-msg= -w set whether or not to send the list members a welcome message, overriding whatever the list's `send_welcome_msg' setting is. --help -h Print this help message and exit. listname The name of the Mailman list you are adding members to. It must already exist. You must supply at least one of -n and -d options. At most one of the files can be `-'. > > -Eric Schmitz > > ------------------------------------------------------ > Mailman-Users maillist - Mailman-Users at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users > Haisam Ido From atallam at rtworks.com Sat May 12 06:25:00 2001 From: atallam at rtworks.com (Ajay) Date: Fri, 11 May 2001 21:25:00 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Monthly notifications ..? (and quickie) Message-ID: <20010511212500.A28100@talarian.com> Hi guys, I had recently (at the beginning of the month obviously ;) gotten reports from some of our users that they had received multiple 'mailing list membership reminders', this apparently was because they were subscribed to some lists as first.last, and some lists as First.Last. This was very shocking/surprising to me, but it's true, even my boss had it happen to me. I don't know if there's a maybe tolower function or similar in python that could correct this? On a possibly related note, I was wondering if any thought has gone into (defaulting to or allowing) special behaviour for addresses with +'s in them? If people are setup with software that filters to mailboxes based on what's after the '+', it might be useful to send one email to username at domain (stripping the stuff after '+' assuming there is stuff preceding it), instead of one to each. Again, maybe this is something that could be an option if some complain. Sorry, I tend to put multiple things into each mail (I know some people mind, but some people agree it's efficient), the other thing I was wondering about is if there are some intranet-style patches for mailman? I'm running it on a server accessible only from inside the network, and I want to make an option where subscribing to mailling lists doesn't require subscription confirmation. Any help/info greatly appreciated, TIA! -Ajay -- Milpitas, ca atallam at telocity.com HempVille, Planet Talarian http://os2man.cjb.net/pictures/ don't trust anything that bleeds for 5 days and doesn't die. From agils at olanet.net Sat May 12 01:50:57 2001 From: agils at olanet.net (agils) Date: Sat, 12 May 2001 01:50:57 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Attributes List References: <75B97A92FDFFEF43A2B9F2C0E5308C830D4FC3@ushqmailw01.togethersoft.net> Message-ID: <003001c0da76$f1513100$dddd96d5@AntonioGil> I do not undesrtand exactly what are you asking for. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jason Maderios" To: Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2001 6:07 PM Subject: [Mailman-Users] Attributes List Gang, Are all the available attributes listed anywhere? I would like to add the username and password to the footer of every email sent out. I know about the security implications but this is for a short term "Announcement" list. TIA, Jason Maderios From vijay at buydeal.com Sat May 12 13:29:07 2001 From: vijay at buydeal.com (vijay) Date: Sat, 12 May 2001 16:59:07 +0530 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Need some help Message-ID: <200105121127.f4CBRN905720@sun01314.dn.net> Hello Mailman users, I'm facing problems with unsubscription, we have not given URL to unsubscribe as our bandwidth is very less. i've given mail-id to send their blank email to unsubscribe. the problem is they are sending emails from different mail-id which are not subscribe with the list ( virtual email-id's configured with their mailbox). So i want to attach their mail-id in the message sent to them. but mailman is not supporting that option "Header added to mail sent to regular list members". so can anybody help in this matter. Thanks Vijay From Donal.Hunt2 at mail.dcu.ie Sat May 12 19:26:23 2001 From: Donal.Hunt2 at mail.dcu.ie (Donal Hunt) Date: Sat, 12 May 2001 18:26:23 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Users] deleting pending requests Message-ID: <3AFD723F.F331C02@mail.dcu.ie> Haisam, I posted a script on thursday about how to do it in the latest version of mailman (mailman-2.0). I don't know at what stage the mailman developers changed the way admin requests are stored, but a search through the change log will probably tell ya. :) The script below should work for Mailman Version 1.x though... Regards Donal ------------------------------------------------------------------------- #! /usr/bin/env python # argv[1] should be the name of the list. """Clear pending admin requests for a list from the command line. [Mailman 1.x afaik] Usage: clear_requests listname Where: listname The name of the Mailman list you want clear the request from. It must already exist. """ import sys import os import string import getopt import paths import Mailman.MailList import Mailman.Utils import Mailman.Message import Mailman.Errors import Mailman.mm_cfg def usage(status, msg=''): if msg: print msg print __doc__ % globals() sys.exit(status) ^L def main(): try: ml = Mailman.MailList.MailList(sys.argv[1]) except Mailman.Errors.MMUnknownListError: usage(1, 'You must first create the list by running: newlist %s' % listname) try: ml.requests = {} ml.Save() finally: ml.Unlock() main() ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Haisam K. Ido" Subject: [Mailman-Users] deleting pending requests To: mailman-users at python.org On a mailing list which I maintain I have over 350 pending requests. Is there a way to delete them all without going throught the GUI? I am using version 1.1. Yes I will upgrade soon :-) Thanks in advance. Haisam Ido From marco at iftbqp.mine.nu Sat May 12 22:09:11 2001 From: marco at iftbqp.mine.nu (marco) Date: Sat, 12 May 2001 16:09:11 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] newlist don't make aliases Message-ID: <3AFD97E6.6B10026A@iftbqp.mine.nu> Hi everybody I'm very new with mailman and mail serving in general I run mailman on a linux redhat 7.0 box, with sendmail 8.11.0-8. Mailman seems to work fine but the problem is when I create a list (test) there is no aliases list displayed... The list exists but when I reply to confirm my subscription the server response is that user test-request don't exist... I would like to create them by myself at command line but I don't know what kind of aliases i must create. Could someone help me ? thanks marco From eschmitz at webbalah.net Sat May 12 23:28:28 2001 From: eschmitz at webbalah.net (Eric Schmitz) Date: Sat, 12 May 2001 16:28:28 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] newlist don't make aliases References: <3AFD97E6.6B10026A@iftbqp.mine.nu> Message-ID: <3AFDAAFC.976A2039@webbalah.net> marco- I too noticed this. When I run newlist, the aliases are generated, but only in stdout. What I do is simply highlight them and copy, then immediately go to my aliases file and paste them at the end. (Of course, remember to run newaliases -- or, for me, vnewaliases) I could not find any stubfile anywhere with the aliases in it. In the end, you need something like the following list of aliases: ## listname mailing list ## created: 12-May-2001 webbalah listname: "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/wrapper post listname" listname-admin: "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/wrapper mailowner listname" listname-request: "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/wrapper mailcmd listname" listname-owner: listname-admin I actually find the Mailman aliases much more neat and easy to deal with than those required for Majordomo. -Eric marco wrote: > > Hi everybody > I'm very new with mailman and mail serving in general > > I run mailman on a linux redhat 7.0 box, with sendmail 8.11.0-8. > Mailman seems to work fine but the problem is when I create a list > (test) > there is no aliases list displayed... > The list exists but when I reply to confirm my subscription the server > response is that user test-request don't exist... > I would like to create them by myself at command line but I don't know > what kind of aliases i must create. > Could someone help me ? > > thanks > marco > > ------------------------------------------------------ > Mailman-Users maillist - Mailman-Users at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users From eschmitz at webbalah.net Sat May 12 23:32:05 2001 From: eschmitz at webbalah.net (Eric Schmitz) Date: Sat, 12 May 2001 16:32:05 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] big lists, big messages Message-ID: <3AFDABD5.D3AE1B50@webbalah.net> Does anyone have any experience in using Mailman with very large lists? I have a newsletter that goes out to 10,000 people each week, and each issue is about 30K. Majordomo seems to be tripping over itself, and many of my subscribers are not receiving their newsletter. This is Very Bad, especially when the advertisers find out! :-( I'm thinking of trying the same list through Mailman. Any thoughts? -Eric From claw at kanga.nu Sun May 13 00:18:01 2001 From: claw at kanga.nu (J C Lawrence) Date: Sat, 12 May 2001 15:18:01 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] big lists, big messages In-Reply-To: Message from Eric Schmitz of "Sat, 12 May 2001 16:32:05 CDT." <3AFDABD5.D3AE1B50@webbalah.net> References: <3AFDABD5.D3AE1B50@webbalah.net> Message-ID: <7575.989705881@kanga.nu> On Sat, 12 May 2001 16:32:05 -0500 Eric Schmitz wrote: > Does anyone have any experience in using Mailman with very large > lists? I have a newsletter that goes out to 10,000 people each > week, and each issue is about 30K. Majordomo seems to be tripping > over itself, and many of my subscribers are not receiving their > newsletter. This is Very Bad, especially when the advertisers find > out! :-( Not to downplay mailman, this is unlikely to be a Majordomo problem, and it quite likely to be a question of MTA choice and configuration. -- J C Lawrence claw at kanga.nu ---------(*) http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/ The pressure to survive and rhetoric may make strange bedfellows From chuqui at plaidworks.com Sun May 13 03:03:51 2001 From: chuqui at plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach) Date: Sat, 12 May 2001 18:03:51 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] big lists, big messages In-Reply-To: <3AFDABD5.D3AE1B50@webbalah.net> Message-ID: On 5/12/01 2:32 PM, "Eric Schmitz" wrote: > Majordomo seems to be tripping over itself, and many > of my subscribers are not receiving their newsletter. This is Very Bad, > especially when the advertisers find out! :-( I agree with JC -- make sure you know what's failing before you change list servers, because if some other part of the system is broken, you don't want to fix the wrong thing. I ran lists larger than that on majordomo. You can run them on mailman, also, but with 2.0, you need to set things up properly -- out of the box, you may well have some problems with mailman and lists of that size. The two issues are the single-threaded delivery (which means nothing else happens while it's delivering that list, which can be a problem if the server does a lot of different lists) and the length it takes to deliver, which can cause qrunner locks to time out, which can lead to duplicated delivery and chaos -- easy to fix by tweaking a few variables, if you know to look for it. But make sure you know what the problem is first. I doubt it's majordomo, if it's set up right. From iwhite at victoria.tc.ca Sun May 13 03:43:12 2001 From: iwhite at victoria.tc.ca (Ian White) Date: Sat, 12 May 2001 18:43:12 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Mailman-Users] newlist don't make aliases In-Reply-To: <3AFDAAFC.976A2039@webbalah.net> Message-ID: Try the -o option for newlist. -o file --output=file Append the alias setting recommendations to file, in addition to printing them to standard output. Change file to whatever your aliases file is. Of course the user running newlist needs permission to edit that file. Ian On Sat, 12 May 2001, Eric Schmitz wrote: > marco- > > I too noticed this. When I run newlist, the aliases are generated, > but only in stdout. What I do is simply highlight them and copy, then > immediately go to my aliases file and paste them at the end. (Of course, > remember to run newaliases -- or, for me, vnewaliases) I could not find > any stubfile anywhere with the aliases in it. > > In the end, you need something like the following list of aliases: > > ## listname mailing list > ## created: 12-May-2001 webbalah > listname: "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/wrapper post listname" > listname-admin: "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/wrapper mailowner > listname" > listname-request: "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/wrapper mailcmd > listname" > listname-owner: listname-admin > > I actually find the Mailman aliases much more neat and easy to deal > with than those required for Majordomo. > > -Eric > > marco wrote: > > > > Hi everybody > > I'm very new with mailman and mail serving in general > > > > I run mailman on a linux redhat 7.0 box, with sendmail 8.11.0-8. > > Mailman seems to work fine but the problem is when I create a list > > (test) > > there is no aliases list displayed... > > The list exists but when I reply to confirm my subscription the server > > response is that user test-request don't exist... > > I would like to create them by myself at command line but I don't know > > what kind of aliases i must create. > > Could someone help me ? > > > > thanks > > marco > > > > ------------------------------------------------------ > > Mailman-Users maillist - Mailman-Users at python.org > > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users > > ------------------------------------------------------ > Mailman-Users maillist - Mailman-Users at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users > From iwhite at victoria.tc.ca Sun May 13 03:52:30 2001 From: iwhite at victoria.tc.ca (Ian White) Date: Sat, 12 May 2001 18:52:30 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Mailman-Users] big lists, big messages In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 12 May 2001, Chuq Von Rospach wrote: > I ran lists larger than that on majordomo. You can run them on mailman, > also, but with 2.0, you need to set things up properly -- out of the box, > you may well have some problems with mailman and lists of that size. The two > issues are the single-threaded delivery (which means nothing else happens > while it's delivering that list, which can be a problem if the server does a > lot of different lists) and the length it takes to deliver, which can cause > qrunner locks to time out, which can lead to duplicated delivery and chaos > -- easy to fix by tweaking a few variables, if you know to look for it. Which variables should be changed? It looks like the following could use some changes: SMTP_MAX_RCPTS = 500 MAX_DELIVERY_THREADS = 0 and the lock management defaults. Any suggestions for tuning these other than what is listed in the Defaults.py file? Ian From tib at tigerknight.org Sun May 13 04:20:21 2001 From: tib at tigerknight.org (Tib) Date: Sat, 12 May 2001 19:20:21 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Mailman-Users] big lists, big messages In-Reply-To: <7575.989705881@kanga.nu> Message-ID: To take another approach, mail out a link to the newsletter rather than the ENTIRE newsletter to each person. Do the math; if you're mailing out a letter that's 30k, to 10,000 users. that's gonna be 300 megs of data that's getting pumped through your system, on a weekly basis, with each one having a possiblity of becoming corrupt or having other failures in transfer. What about turning the newsletter into a webarticle that you post on the net somewhere and send out just the link to all those 10k subscribers. First of all it'll cut your data output through the mailserver IMMENSELY, a 1k message that goes out rather than 30k will only end up being 10 megs rather than 300. Second, the time it takes to SEND that batch of messages will be drasticly reduced. And last, if you have to make any changes to the message or find a critical editing error AFTER it's out, you can correct it in one place (the single web page) rather than having to mail out an error correction message to those 10k people all over again. Downside? I don't really see any big ones. This type of change would only require that you have a web server resource to point this at. A slight negative would be that depending on the email client the person was using, it would either load the url into the mail reader and be a transparent change to your users (say with outlook or express or even netscape mail) or your users would have to copy/paste the url into a browser (pine and other command line clients and possibly eudora and others). It's up to you, but this is just my two cents. On Sat, 12 May 2001, J C Lawrence wrote: > On Sat, 12 May 2001 16:32:05 -0500 > Eric Schmitz wrote: > > > Does anyone have any experience in using Mailman with very large > > lists? I have a newsletter that goes out to 10,000 people each > > week, and each issue is about 30K. Majordomo seems to be tripping > > over itself, and many of my subscribers are not receiving their > > newsletter. This is Very Bad, especially when the advertisers find > > out! :-( > > Not to downplay mailman, this is unlikely to be a Majordomo problem, > and it quite likely to be a question of MTA choice and > configuration. > > From chuqui at plaidworks.com Sun May 13 05:36:37 2001 From: chuqui at plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach) Date: Sat, 12 May 2001 20:36:37 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] big lists, big messages In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 5/12/01 6:52 PM, "Ian White" wrote: > Which variables should be changed? It looks like the following could use > some changes: > SMTP_MAX_RCPTS = 500 Between 5 and 10 - that should be set for any mailman installation. 500 is way too high for reasonable performance. > MAX_DELIVERY_THREADS = 0 Zero. That's experimental and has been found not to be overly useful, because the threads lock each other up. It'd need to be redone as processes. Make sure you have: DELIVERY_MODULE = 'SMTPDirect' Not sendmail QRUNNER_LOCK_LIFETIME = hours(10) QRUNNER_PROCESS_LIFETIME = minutes(15) QRUNNER_MAX_MESSAGES = 300 I set QRUNNER_LOCK_LIFETIME = hours(20) QRUNNER_PROCESS_LIFETIME = hours(2) QRUNNER_MAX_MESSAGES = 500000 What's important for a large list is that QRUNNER_LOCK_LIFETIME be longer than however long it takes to deliver your really large message, or the system will assume the lock is dead and break it. You don't want it too large, because if the system does lock for some reason, it'll take a HUGE time to recover, so it takes some experimentation. If this value is too small, it's VERY possible for qrunner to be delivering your newsletter, for the lock to time out, and for another qrunner to start up break the lock as dead, and start sending your newsletter out again -- you send out random numbers of duplicates until you figure it out or happen to get in below the lock lifetime.... From chuqui at plaidworks.com Sun May 13 06:09:12 2001 From: chuqui at plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach) Date: Sat, 12 May 2001 21:09:12 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] big lists, big messages In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 5/12/01 7:20 PM, "Tib" wrote: > To take another approach, mail out a link to the newsletter rather than the > ENTIRE newsletter to each person. Do the math; Your math is wrong, though. > if you're mailing out a letter > that's 30k, to 10,000 users. that's gonna be 300 megs of data that's getting > pumped through your system, on a weekly basis, with each one having a > possiblity of becoming corrupt or having other failures in transfer. > First of all it'll cut > your data output through the mailserver IMMENSELY, a 1k message that goes out > rather than 30k will only end up being 10 megs rather than 300. Second, the > time it takes to SEND that batch of messages will be drasticly reduced. There are any number of problems with this. First, if you have a measley 384K DSL connection, you can send out 300 megs of data in about 2.5 hours. It's just not a big deal from the start. Second, you're ignoring the economies of scale that comes from SMTP putting this together. If you set your SMTP_MAX_RCPTS to 10, which is still a fairly small number, then any domains that have 2 or more subscribers get lumped together, and the newsletter gets sent once to each domain. If you have more than ten subscribers to a domain, it gets sent once for every ten subscribers, a 90% reduction. If the list is at all typical, you'll be sending 25% or more less than a simple mathematical multiplication might assume. Third, you ignore the overhead of the SMTP protocol -- there's control data that goes along with the content data. Not much, but it'll add to the time somewhat. Fourth, and most important -- you're ignoring the overhead imposed by SMTP and the acceptance speed of the client systems. Those are significant, and tend to make the actual size of the message (within reason) not all that significant. For a non-optimized system, I'd say the difference in delivery time of 10,000 subscribers for a 2-3K message and a 30K message is probably double, not the 10X or more you'd imply by simply looking at the size difference. If you have a fast network connection and figure out how to optimize your delivery setup, then for small lists like this, your primary delay vector is the speed the other side is willing to accept it. On my big server, where 40,000 is my smallest list, I literally can't get the system up to speed before it's delivered, and for something that size, my big limiter is the speed other systems respond to my delivery request. And there are logistic problems to your suggestion -- if you send a URL to the users instead of the message, the number of eyeballs that person's advertisers will get plummets by a huge fraction. Send URLs, and many users won't bother much of the time. It's a really bad idea for most environments, especially if they're doing newsletter or marketing oriented stuff. > And > last, if you have to make any changes to the message or find a critical > editing > error AFTER it's out, A legitimate issue, but one which you mostly deal with by making sure you edit the thing properly the first time. Sometimes URLs change, but there are ways to deal with that (but I can't talk about how I did it, at least not right now). > Downside? I don't really see any big ones. This type of change would only > require that you have a web server resource to point this at. Downsides: 1) you're forcing the user to make an action to read the newsletter. If you give users an excuse, they'll take it. Your actual readership will plummet, not good for the advertisers. Any little hassle is still a hassle. 2) it requires having a web server and a network connection that can handle the PEAK load when everyone clicks the URL at the same time after you deliver it. You'll see 50-70% of those users click through in the first 90 minutes after delivery of the URL, so you probably need a faster link than you'd need to deliver the actual message, since delivery of a piece of e-mail isn't peak-load sensitive (the receiver doesn't care all that much if they get it now or in two hours from now) -- but web stuff is (if they get that URL now, and the server is overloaded, you're toast). In fact, if you start doing newsletters with a lot of clickthrough stuff to a central server, I've found it's best to SLOW DOWN delivery to spread out the load on your web server. 3) remember all that bandwidth you thought you saved by going with the small piece of e-mail? You just gave it all back (and probably more) via the web server. But instead of it going out in a controlled manner because you're pushing email, it's going out in a demand manner, because now they're pulling it on THEIR schedule, not yours. Which means you need a faster net link and bigger web server to handle the peak load, because the users won't wait. That kind of delivery model is a false economy. That content is going to go out the network somewhere, sometime. Send it out by e-mail, it goes out on your schedule. Send out links and wait for web clicks, it goes out on THEIR schedule -- and they're going to pile on quickly after delivery because that's when the user wants it. And you haven't saved any of your network bandwidth, you've simply bunched it into a peak load, which is worse for you and your customers. It seems logical to send smaller messages -- but that data's going out sooner or later, so it's really a false economy, and it doesn't work in practice, because the users don't cooperate. Once they get a link, they either throw it out, or they want to read it NOW, and that really hoses over your network and web server unless you have capacity to deal with it. And for a small network, it's more expensive to do that than to send out the mail in the first place a little slower. Unless your content is VERY time sensitive, it makes no sense (and if it is time sensitive, it STILL makes sense to sned it via email, but to spend your money making your email as fast as possible, which probably means hiring someone like me to build the network for you. (note: I'm not allowed by my employer to consult on email for pay, so don't ask. And besides, I'm fully scheduled out for the year already) This is something where you really need to do this stuff before advising people how to do it, because some of the things that are "obvious" don't work in practice... Chuq From claw at kanga.nu Sun May 13 07:43:14 2001 From: claw at kanga.nu (J C Lawrence) Date: Sat, 12 May 2001 22:43:14 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] big lists, big messages In-Reply-To: Message from Tib of "Sat, 12 May 2001 19:20:21 PDT." References: Message-ID: <5770.989732594@kanga.nu> On Sat, 12 May 2001 19:20:21 -0700 (PDT) tib wrote: > To take another approach, mail out a link to the newsletter rather > than the ENTIRE newsletter to each person. Do the math; if you're > mailing out a letter that's 30k, to 10,000 users. that's gonna be > 300 megs of data that's getting pumped through your system... Your math is off as it ignores RCPT-TO envelope size. > ... on a weekly basis, with each one having a possiblity of > becoming corrupt or having other failures in transfer. 1) If your messages are getting corrupted, AT ALL, you have far more serious problems than how fast your system is able to deliver a list broadcast. Something is fundamentally broken and that needs to be fixed, now, before you start worrying about much else. 2) Transfer failures given a good MTA and reasonable choice of RCPT TO bundle size should cause minimal problem in delivery rates for the list broadcast. Empirical testing here, for my admittedly very atypical membership/domain distribution suggests that between 5 and 25 is my sweet spot under Postfix. Chuq IIRC has found for his locad under Sendmail that somewhere in the 30 range is his sweet pot. Vour mileage will vary. 3) If delivery failures are clogging your MTA queue and are noticably slowing delivery rates, you need to start thinking about reviewing your MTA configuration or using a different and more intelligent MTA. > What about turning the newsletter into a webarticle that you post > on the net somewhere and send out just the link to all those 10k > subscribers. First of all it'll cut your data output through the > mailserver IMMENSELY, a 1k message that goes out rather than 30k > will only end up being 10 megs rather than 300. Actually, list servers are generically disk IO bound with the primary factor in the disk IO being open/close/unlink time not read/write time. > Second, the time it takes to SEND that batch of messages will be > drasticly reduced. And last, if you have to make any changes to > the message or find a critical editing error AFTER it's out, you > can correct it in one place (the single web page) rather than > having to mail out an error correction message to those 10k people > all over again. This assumes of course that the audience has web access, and in particular has web access at the time and on the device they would normally read the messages. Example : It wouldn't work for me reading on the train on my laptop. > Downside? You cut off a potentially significant percentage of your audience. You make third part archiving and disconnected analysis and review of your material more difficult. You make automated processing of your content (ie email driven automation systems) much more difficult. You turn a low bandwidth, disconnected, permanent operation (to the user, the mail arrives asynchronously with his other operations), into a high bandwidth connected operation which is explicitly transitory (close the browser and its gone). There are reasons I don't subscribe to lists as you describe above. > I don't really see any big ones. I subscribe to something over 130 lists at this point. I don't read them all, and I don't even try and keep up with many of them. However, I subscribe to them as I'm interested in something about them, so I *do* want to participate to at least some degree. So I automate and reduce the problem. Procmail appropirate files all list messages into per-list folders. As it files each message it also compares each message against a list of key words for hat list, and if the message matches, it also files a copy of the message in a folder called -interesting. I then read -interesting. Should I reply to a message on the list, or send a message to the list (from -interesting or wherever), procmail will notice when it receives that message and goes to file in the appropriate folders. Noticing that it is from me, it logs the MessageID into a DB. Any future messages for that list are also checked for that MessageID in their References: and In-Reply-To: headers, and if there's a match, that message's MessageID is dropped into the DB and a copy of it is dropped into -interesting. Result? I get to read what I'm interested in on the list, and any time I post to the list, I get to see everything on that thread until it dies. Meanwhile the rest of the list passes me silently by. I can of course go read the main list folder any time I want, which I do periodically to update the key word lists -- but usually its enough to just read -interesting. That sort of autmation would be simply impossible with the web-based distribution you describe. -- J C Lawrence claw at kanga.nu ---------(*) http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/ The pressure to survive and rhetoric may make strange bedfellows From claw at kanga.nu Sun May 13 07:51:48 2001 From: claw at kanga.nu (J C Lawrence) Date: Sat, 12 May 2001 22:51:48 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] big lists, big messages In-Reply-To: Message from Chuq Von Rospach of "Sat, 12 May 2001 20:36:37 PDT." References: Message-ID: <21606.989733108@kanga.nu> On Sat, 12 May 2001 20:36:37 -0700 Chuq Von Rospach wrote: > QRUNNER_LOCK_LIFETIME be longer than however long it takes to > deliver your really large message, or the system will assume the > lock is dead and break it. You don't want it too large, because if > the system does lock for some reason, it'll take a HUGE time to > recover, so it takes some experimentation. > If this value is too small, it's VERY possible for qrunner to be > delivering your newsletter, for the lock to time out, and for > another qrunner to start up break the lock as dead, and start > sending your newsletter out again -- you send out random numbers > of duplicates until you figure it out or happen to get in below > the lock lifetime.... I find this curious. I have MAX_RCPT_TO set to 5, and to broadcast 30 messages to a subscriber base of 1,000 (ie 6,000 spool entries) through qrunner to the MTA (postfix) on a dual PII-333 takes just over 6 seconds once started. Admittedly that's an appreciable time, but its also not that long a time in the lands of lock contention and lock timeouts. -- J C Lawrence claw at kanga.nu ---------(*) http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/ The pressure to survive and rhetoric may make strange bedfellows From chuqui at plaidworks.com Sun May 13 08:19:15 2001 From: chuqui at plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach) Date: Sat, 12 May 2001 23:19:15 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] big lists, big messages In-Reply-To: <5770.989732594@kanga.nu> Message-ID: On 5/12/01 10:43 PM, "J C Lawrence" wrote: > 1) If your messages are getting corrupted, AT ALL, you have far more > serious problems than how fast your system is able to deliver a list > broadcast. Yeah. TCP guarantees the data is good. You basically can't get corruption unless one side or the other is broken. > Chuq IIRC has found for his > locad under Sendmail that somewhere in the 30 range is his sweet > pot. Vour mileage will vary. I use ten these days with good results. > 3) If delivery failures are clogging your MTA queue and are > noticably slowing delivery rates, you need to start thinking about > reviewing your MTA configuration or using a different and more > intelligent MTA. MTA configuration is huge. And it's a big black art. And not all of what makes for good delivery is obvious. You have to sit down and get into the system to your elbows, as you grow. (Oh, and at times, you'll find you have to redo stuff, because there are places where the paradigms change -- you scale to some point, and then you have to rethink how you do things...) From chuqui at plaidworks.com Sun May 13 08:21:05 2001 From: chuqui at plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach) Date: Sat, 12 May 2001 23:21:05 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] big lists, big messages In-Reply-To: <21606.989733108@kanga.nu> Message-ID: On 5/12/01 10:51 PM, "J C Lawrence" wrote: > I find this curious. I have MAX_RCPT_TO set to 5, and to broadcast > 30 messages to a subscriber base of 1,000 (ie 6,000 spool entries) > through qrunner to the MTA (postfix) on a dual PII-333 takes just > over 6 seconds once started. Admittedly that's an appreciable time, > but its also not that long a time in the lands of lock contention > and lock timeouts. It all comes down to how fast your MTA accepts messages. If you're running postfix with DNS deferred, you rock. If you're running sendmail with DNS on, it's a lot slower. So it's something you have to judge based on your own system. From vijay at buydeal.com Sun May 13 09:22:10 2001 From: vijay at buydeal.com (vijay) Date: Sun, 13 May 2001 12:52:10 +0530 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can HTML mail support footer Message-ID: <200105130720.f4D7KS923550@sun01314.dn.net> Hello mailman users, Mailman is only supporting footers and headers for text based mails and not for html formated mail. does any body tried to use html formatted mail with footers and headers. please write any suggestions. Thanks in Advance Vijay From tib at tigerknight.org Sun May 13 09:22:08 2001 From: tib at tigerknight.org (Tib) Date: Sun, 13 May 2001 00:22:08 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Mailman-Users] big lists, big messages In-Reply-To: <5770.989732594@kanga.nu> Message-ID: On Sat, 12 May 2001, J C Lawrence wrote: > Your math is off as it ignores RCPT-TO envelope size. So throw in a few more bytes times 10k and it gets even bigger > 1) If your messages are getting corrupted, AT ALL, you have far more > serious problems than how fast your system is able to deliver a list > broadcast. Something is fundamentally broken and that needs to be > fixed, now, before you start worrying about much else. > > 2) Transfer failures given a good MTA and reasonable choice of RCPT > TO bundle size should cause minimal problem in delivery rates for > the list broadcast. Empirical testing here, for my admittedly very > atypical membership/domain distribution suggests that between 5 and > 25 is my sweet spot under Postfix. Chuq IIRC has found for his > locad under Sendmail that somewhere in the 30 range is his sweet > pot. Vour mileage will vary. > > 3) If delivery failures are clogging your MTA queue and are > noticably slowing delivery rates, you need to start thinking about > reviewing your MTA configuration or using a different and more > intelligent MTA. Point > Actually, list servers are generically disk IO bound with the > primary factor in the disk IO being open/close/unlink time not > read/write time. I'm not quite the hardware guru I'd like to be yet - explain in english please? > This assumes of course that the audience has web access, and in > particular has web access at the time and on the device they would > normally read the messages. > > Example : It wouldn't work for me reading on the train on my > laptop. Who has email that does not have web access at the time they get their email? Granted I suppose it's possible that you would download your mail ahead of time before leaving home and then opening your laptop on the train. > Result? > > I get to read what I'm interested in on the list, and any time I > post to the list, I get to see everything on that thread until it > dies. Meanwhile the rest of the list passes me silently by. I > can of course go read the main list folder any time I want, which > I do periodically to update the key word lists -- but usually its > enough to just read -interesting. > > That sort of autmation would be simply impossible with the web-based > distribution you describe. The load shift is a valid concern, and does change from a 'push' to a 'pull' format. True: users who have a bland interest in the article that is being posted will probably not pull down the URL - what's the problem with this, it's saved bandwidth. Anyone who is /actually/ interested and can take the time to read/parse through 30k worth of email will take an extra second to click on a link or do what not to pull up what they want. And I do understand that this means that a person may actually pull on that link a number of times on different occasions. However it's now pulling on a webserver rather than pushing through an email server, which depending on it's configuration may have as few as one outward connection at a time (which I'm not sure how rare /that/ is, my original sendmail server only had 1 outbound, but my current qmail setup allows up to 50 outward smtp connections at once), and a webserver is designed to be pulled on a lot. Most basic configurations will start anywhere from 10 to 20 instances at once, and the 'high bandwidth' demand won't be high at all if you keep the presentation simple and clean and non-graphicy - just you like you'd get in a 30k message that got pushed out to you. Plus, if you really want to get finicky, the manner of processing http requests churns out fewer headers and data than mail. Also, unless 100% of your user base is actually reading the article, you're going to be saving bandwidth (some people may open an article more than just once, but most will read it once and be done, in which case you will come out a little bit ahead instead of a lot). The load of an entire batch (rough 300meg estimate) will also be spread out more over the course of a few days as everyone checks their mail and may or may not look at that message and cause it to draw on the url or click/paste it into a browser themselves. It all boils down to a matter of how you want to use your server. There are as many good points for as against everything I said and have been responded to with, however all the items presented have not really made an effect on my point of view. There are two sides to this debate, the client side (where the rebuttal for my view came from), and the server side (which I was presenting). If you want the best of both worlds, perhaps consider doing similar to many newspapers have done with their web presence/maling list user base. Send out a smaller email message which briefs the content of the full article and then present a link at the end which lets users get an idea of the article rather than flying blind on whether or not to follow the link or not. Cut a 30k message to 10k users down to maybe 5k in this way and you'll have a userbase that doesn't have the entire message in their box, but at the same time is not ignorant to the progression of the newsletter's topic. Tib From chuqui at plaidworks.com Sun May 13 09:41:16 2001 From: chuqui at plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach) Date: Sun, 13 May 2001 00:41:16 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] big lists, big messages In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 5/13/01 12:22 AM, "Tib" wrote: > Who has email that does not have web access at the time they get their email? Not a huge number, but not zero. As wireless mobile becomes more significant, it'll be a growing issue, not a shrinking one. > True: users who have a bland interest in the article that is being > posted will probably not pull down the URL - what's the problem with this, > it's > saved bandwidth If the piece of email is sponsored and has advertising, it's a HUGE problem. As was the original poster's note on this stuff. > However it's now pulling on a webserver rather than > pushing through an email server, which depending on it's configuration may > have > as few as one outward connection at a time (which I'm not sure how rare /that/ > is, my original sendmail server only had 1 outbound, but my current qmail > setup > allows up to 50 outward smtp connections at once), and a webserver is designed > to be pulled on a lot. Most basic configurations will start anywhere from 10 > to > 20 instances at once, and the 'high bandwidth' demand won't be high at all if > you keep the presentation simple and clean and non-graphicy - just you like > you'd get in a 30k message that got pushed out to you. Plus, if you really > want > to get finicky, the manner of processing http requests churns out fewer > headers > and data than mail. Um, Tib -- I've actually done this and measured it. Have you? You ignored pretty much all of the data in my message while responding to JC -- and you still sound like you're guessing at this stuff. Have you actually run servers in both configurations and measured response like I have? Because my numbers say you're wrong. > The load of an entire batch (rough 300meg > estimate) will also be spread out more over the course of a few days as > everyone checks their mail and may or may not look at that message and cause > it > to draw on the url or click/paste it into a browser themselves. No, it won't. There's a huge peak in the few hours after delivery, which drops radically after that and stretches out over about ten days or so. > It all boils down to a matter of how you want to use your server. And whether you want to pay for peak load capacities on your web server or the lower, spread out push capacities on your e-mail. Again, I have to ask. Have you actually done this with large lists? I'm curious if your numbers disagree with mine, or if you don't have numbers to back up what you're saying. I'd like to know if the data I've gathered may or may not be typical. If you've done it, what size lists? From rogerk at QueerNet.ORG Sun May 13 09:44:23 2001 From: rogerk at QueerNet.ORG (Roger B.A. Klorese) Date: Sun, 13 May 2001 00:44:23 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Mailman-Users] big lists, big messages In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 13 May 2001, Chuq Von Rospach wrote: > As wireless mobile becomes more significant, it'll be a growing issue, > not a shrinking one. Do you expect wireless mobile NOT to have web access? Hell, I use my web access when mobile much more than my email access. -- ROGER B.A. KLORESE rogerk at QueerNet.ORG PO Box 14309 San Francisco, CA 94114 "There is only one real blasphemy -- the refusal of joy!" -- Paul Rudnick From chuqui at plaidworks.com Sun May 13 09:52:43 2001 From: chuqui at plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach) Date: Sun, 13 May 2001 00:52:43 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] big lists, big messages In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 5/13/01 12:44 AM, "Roger B.A. Klorese" wrote: > Do you expect wireless mobile NOT to have web access? Hell, I use my web > access when mobile much more than my email access. No, but I expect wireless mobile to have limitations on display -- not to the level that WAP hoses you (into basically unusability), but in other directions. From tib at tigerknight.org Sun May 13 10:21:52 2001 From: tib at tigerknight.org (Tib) Date: Sun, 13 May 2001 01:21:52 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Mailman-Users] big lists, big messages In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 13 May 2001, Chuq Von Rospach wrote: > On 5/13/01 12:22 AM, "Tib" wrote: > If the piece of email is sponsored and has advertising, it's a HUGE problem. > As was the original poster's note on this stuff. If you're running on a 384k dsl then the only advertising is the stuff you put up yourself because it's your server. > Um, Tib -- I've actually done this and measured it. Have you? You ignored > pretty much all of the data in my message while responding to JC -- and you > still sound like you're guessing at this stuff. Have you actually run > servers in both configurations and measured response like I have? Because my > numbers say you're wrong. Well your numbers aren't my numbers, so of course they'll say I'm wrong, and if that's all you're intent on proving then feel free to flame/shoot down every one of my comments to me rather than wasting everyone elses time with it. > No, it won't. There's a huge peak in the few hours after delivery, which > drops radically after that and stretches out over about ten days or so. > > > It all boils down to a matter of how you want to use your server. > And whether you want to pay for peak load capacities on your web server or > the lower, spread out push capacities on your e-mail. I would think this would be a bit the opposite. For your mail server to push anything it has to look up records on the domain it's going to send to (which for 10k users I would assume to be a lot of domains), rather than just firing back a response to an ip for a data request (and will only lookup and put resolved host names into your log only if you tell it to do so). Again it would seem to me that the webserver would have an easier time with the load than the mail server. > Again, I have to ask. Have you actually done this with large lists? I'm > curious if your numbers disagree with mine, or if you don't have numbers to > back up what you're saying. I'd like to know if the data I've gathered may > or may not be typical. If you've done it, what size lists? What I have: A personally built server (PIII 500, 256mb memory, 30g hd) a 1.1 sdsl line 5 fully hosted domains 23 users (maybe a third of which are decently active for mail and web demands) 5 email lists running on mailman, the largest of which is about 300 users. mrtg to keep track of bandwidth usage basic algebra Do I run a newsletter like the original topic of this thread was about? Nope. Am I guessing a little about traffic and how it could happen if changed to the way I talked about? Yep. I say a little because I used to work for a company that was completely based off of this kind of newsletter and traffic, to the tune of about 8 million addresses, 200 mail servers, and about that many web servers. Dealing with systems on two vastly different scales (millions of users at my old company, and a handful at my own server - versus 10k towards the middle of the spectrum) turn experience into best guesses. I have never maxed out my bandwidth with list traffic, so my comments are /estimates/ of numbers and /estimates/ on behaviors of people based on myself as being 'joe average'. Tib From hr at granus.net Sun May 13 15:46:45 2001 From: hr at granus.net (Hendrik Runte) Date: Sun, 13 May 2001 15:46:45 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [Mailman-Users] no mail delivery Message-ID: <989761605.3afe9045249dd@www.granus.net> Dear list-members, I searched the archives and the whole web without any success. So, you'll understand that any help on the following topic will be appreciated: Trying to install Mailman-2.0.5 failed. Honestly, it's my 6th try, and I think it's time to ask some people being more successful. Any try produced these errors: The postings are not delivered to the list members. Additionally, a confirmation request from any subscriber never arrives at the subscriber's mail account. This is how I tried to install mailman on a Cobalt RaQ3 with sendmail 8.9.3: - unpacking, creating mailman:mailman, creating /home/mailman right as shown in the installation guide at lists.org - my options to do ./configure were: --prefix=/home/mailman --with-username=mailman --with-mail-gid=mail --with-cgi-gid=httpd - adding a symbolic link to /etc/smrsh: 12492 0 lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 26 May 13 14:48 wrapper -> /home/mailman/mail/wrapper - mm_cfg.py: from Defaults import * # Site-specific settings DEFAULT_HOST_NAME = 'raq.granus.net' # DEFAULT_URL must end in a slash! DEFAULT_URL = 'http://www.granus.net/mailman/' PUBLIC_ARCHIVE_URL = '/pipermail' PRIVATE_ARCHIVE_URL = '/mailman/private' HOME_PAGE = 'index.html' MAILMAN_OWNER = 'mailman-owner@%s' % DEFAULT_HOST_NAME SMTPPORT = 25 - doing the last steps to create a site pass, creating a new list ('abc'), copying and editing the /etc/aliases like this (and running newaliases successfully): # Mailman 2.0.5 settings [13.05.01] mailman: lists at granus.net mailman-owner: mailman ## abc mailing list ## created: 13-May-2001 root abc: "|/etc/smrsh/wrapper post abc" abc-admin: "|/etc/smrsh/wrapper mailowner abc" abc-request: "|/etc/smrsh/wrapper mailcmd abc" abc-owner: abc-admin ---- The GUI runs pretty fine, but trying to subscribe gives no error message but an entry like this in /var/log/maillog: May 13 15:09:50 raq sendmail[32214]: PAA32214: from=, size=0, class=0, pri=0, nrcpts=0, proto=ESMTP, relay=localhost [127.0.0.1] The subscription message never arrives... Trying to post to the test list returns 'no such user here'. Does anybody have a clue what I was too blind to see, didn't set properly? Thanks a lot in advance, regards, Hendrik. From alex at phred.org Sun May 13 17:46:57 2001 From: alex at phred.org (alex wetmore) Date: Sun, 13 May 2001 08:46:57 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Mailman-Users] big lists, big messages In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010513083957.P91149-100000@phred.org> On Sat, 12 May 2001, Chuq Von Rospach wrote: > On 5/12/01 6:52 PM, "Ian White" wrote: > > Which variables should be changed? It looks like the following could use > > some changes: > > SMTP_MAX_RCPTS = 500 > > Between 5 and 10 - that should be set for any mailman installation. 500 is > way too high for reasonable performance. This blanket statement is not always correct. It strongly depends on the MTA that you are using. My mailman installation talks to the Windows 2000 SMTP MTA, where there are no performance problems with having the batching set to a very high number. Multiple queues can send out the same message at the same time. Using high SMTP_MAX_RCPTS numbers results in a lot less disk activity and also means that all of my mail going to hotmail.com or aol.com can get sent in one transaction. The statement above is true for many Unix MTAs where the queue runner can only send one message to one file at time. If you only give the MTA a couple of messages to party on then it will only be able to talk to a couple of remote servers at a time, so sending out a single message could take quite a while. What this really means is that you should understand how your MTA works and choose a SMTP_MAX_RCPTS that works well for your MTA. I just think that blanket statements such as "500 is way too high for reasonable performance" should be avoided, as you never know what MTA the admin is using. alex From claw at kanga.nu Sun May 13 19:12:12 2001 From: claw at kanga.nu (J C Lawrence) Date: Sun, 13 May 2001 10:12:12 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] big lists, big messages In-Reply-To: Message from Chuq Von Rospach of "Sat, 12 May 2001 23:21:05 PDT." References: Message-ID: <22981.989773932@kanga.nu> On Sat, 12 May 2001 23:21:05 -0700 Chuq Von Rospach wrote: > On 5/12/01 10:51 PM, "J C Lawrence" wrote: >> I find this curious. I have MAX_RCPT_TO set to 5, and to >> broadcast 30 messages to a subscriber base of 1,000 (ie 6,000 >> spool entries) through qrunner to the MTA (postfix) on a dual >> PII-333 takes just over 6 seconds once started. Admittedly >> that's an appreciable time, but its also not that long a time in >> the lands of lock contention and lock timeouts. > It all comes down to how fast your MTA accepts messages. True, thus my query. > If you're running postfix with DNS deferred, you rock. If you're > running sendmail with DNS on, it's a lot slower. So it's something > you have to judge based on your own system. Aye, that's one of my more common performance refrains along with, "install and use a local cacheing name server!". Fair dunkum tho -- I'd forgotton the painful side effects of turning of DNS checks for Sendmail, and had thus ritely assumed that non-DNS-check was a default starting point. -- J C Lawrence claw at kanga.nu ---------(*) http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/ The pressure to survive and rhetoric may make strange bedfellows From claw at kanga.nu Sun May 13 19:22:47 2001 From: claw at kanga.nu (J C Lawrence) Date: Sun, 13 May 2001 10:22:47 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] big lists, big messages In-Reply-To: Message from Tib of "Sun, 13 May 2001 00:22:08 PDT." References: Message-ID: <9153.989774567@kanga.nu> On Sun, 13 May 2001 00:22:08 -0700 (PDT) tib wrote: > On Sat, 12 May 2001, J C Lawrence wrote: >> Your math is off as it ignores RCPT-TO envelope size. > So throw in a few more bytes times 10k and it gets even bigger Chuq has already addressed this point thoroughly. >> Actually, list servers are generically disk IO bound with the >> primary factor in the disk IO being open/close/unlink time not >> read/write time. > I'm not quite the hardware guru I'd like to be yet - explain in > english please? MTAs are fundamentally disk IO bound. This is one of the reason that several large mail houses run their mail spools on silicon disks (ie hard drives which sit on SCSI busses, and which are made out of RAM). Within the bottleneck that is formed by disk IO, read/write time is a smaller percentage. open/close/delete occupy the lion's share of the IO time. Ergo, volume of data processed is really not that concerning -- its the NUMBER of data items (spool entries) processed that is concerning. >> This assumes of course that the audience has web access, and in >> particular has web access at the time and on the device they >> would normally read the messages. >> >> Example : It wouldn't work for me reading on the train on my >> laptop. > Who has email that does not have web access at the time they get > their email? I do. > Granted I suppose it's possible that you would download your mail > ahead of time before leaving home and then opening your laptop on > the train. The laptop has a Wavelan card. When its at home it auto-joins the home network and picks up the mail my server has spooled for it, and delivers the mail it has waiting for outbound. I then go to work, laptop in tow, and (generally) have no more 'net access from the laptop until I retunr home. (I'm still not happy with this setup, but it kinda works ATM). Given the number of others I see on the train reading mail I'm nowhere near alone in this (tho our methods will vary on how we got there -- mine is excessively complex). -- J C Lawrence claw at kanga.nu ---------(*) http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/ The pressure to survive and rhetoric may make strange bedfellows From claw at kanga.nu Sun May 13 19:29:01 2001 From: claw at kanga.nu (J C Lawrence) Date: Sun, 13 May 2001 10:29:01 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] big lists, big messages In-Reply-To: Message from Chuq Von Rospach of "Sun, 13 May 2001 00:41:16 PDT." References: Message-ID: <20170.989774941@kanga.nu> On Sun, 13 May 2001 00:41:16 -0700 Chuq Von Rospach wrote: > On 5/13/01 12:22 AM, "Tib" wrote: >> Who has email that does not have web access at the time they get >> their email? > Not a huge number, but not zero. As wireless mobile becomes more > significant, it'll be a growing issue, not a shrinking one. Which of course means that your web page must now be WAP friendly and desktop browser friendly. Reading the web effectively on a connected Palm requires a rather different view on web design. >> The load of an entire batch (rough 300meg estimate) will also be >> spread out more over the course of a few days as everyone checks >> their mail and may or may not look at that message and cause it >> to draw on the url or click/paste it into a browser themselves. > No, it won't. There's a huge peak in the few hours after delivery, > which drops radically after that and stretches out over about ten > days or so. I wandered over to Akami a few months ago and looked at the graphs of attack time and decay rates for sites that hit Slashdot. The leading edge of the peak is typically measured in single digit minutes. The decay rates vary fairly widely depending on the time of posting, but fall into a small number of basic camps. >> It all boils down to a matter of how you want to use your server. > And whether you want to pay for peak load capacities on your web > server or the lower, spread out push capacities on your e-mail. There's also the possiblity of using your ISP's MTAs as smarthosts (which many ISPs actively encourage and some enforce/require). -- J C Lawrence claw at kanga.nu ---------(*) http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/ The pressure to survive and rhetoric may make strange bedfellows From claw at kanga.nu Sun May 13 19:29:59 2001 From: claw at kanga.nu (J C Lawrence) Date: Sun, 13 May 2001 10:29:59 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] big lists, big messages In-Reply-To: Message from Chuq Von Rospach of "Sat, 12 May 2001 23:19:15 PDT." References: Message-ID: <21849.989774999@kanga.nu> On Sat, 12 May 2001 23:19:15 -0700 Chuq Von Rospach wrote: > On 5/12/01 10:43 PM, "J C Lawrence" wrote: >> 3) If delivery failures are clogging your MTA queue and are >> noticably slowing delivery rates, you need to start thinking >> about reviewing your MTA configuration or using a different and >> more intelligent MTA. > MTA configuration is huge. Yes, and no. I posit that some MTA's ala Postfix and QMail do a good enough job that they do solve 80% of the problem, which leave only rather rare cases being interestingfrom a tuning viewpoint. > (Oh, and at times, you'll find you have to redo stuff, because > there are places where the paradigms change -- you scale to some > point, and then you have to rethink how you do things...) Yeah, I've been caught there a couple times. -- J C Lawrence claw at kanga.nu ---------(*) http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/ The pressure to survive and rhetoric may make strange bedfellows From claw at kanga.nu Sun May 13 19:40:30 2001 From: claw at kanga.nu (J C Lawrence) Date: Sun, 13 May 2001 10:40:30 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] big lists, big messages In-Reply-To: Message from Tib of "Sun, 13 May 2001 01:21:52 PDT." References: Message-ID: <8022.989775630@kanga.nu> On Sun, 13 May 2001 01:21:52 -0700 (PDT) tib wrote: > On Sun, 13 May 2001, Chuq Von Rospach wrote: >> On 5/13/01 12:22 AM, "Tib" wrote: >> If the piece of email is sponsored and has advertising, it's a >> HUGE problem. As was the original poster's note on this stuff. > If you're running on a 384k dsl then the only advertising is the > stuff you put up yourself because it's your server. Unsupoortable assumption. > I would think this would be a bit the opposite. For your mail > server to push anything it has to look up records on the domain > it's going to send to (which for 10k users I would assume to be a > lot of domains)... Which given a local cacheing name server with reasonably large and enforced minimum TTLs is a small overhead. > Again it would seem to me that the webserver would have an easier > time with the load than the mail server. Web server traffic is controllable, bandwidth profiles poorly (users complain), is unschedulable and tends to be bursty. Mail traffic is implicitly controllable, bandwidth profiles easily, is schedulable, and is as flat as you care to make it. -- J C Lawrence claw at kanga.nu ---------(*) http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/ The pressure to survive and rhetoric may make strange bedfellows From chuqui at plaidworks.com Sun May 13 19:41:27 2001 From: chuqui at plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach) Date: Sun, 13 May 2001 10:41:27 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] big lists, big messages In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 5/13/01 1:21 AM, "Tib" wrote: > If you're running on a 384k dsl then the only advertising is the stuff you put > up yourself because it's your server. Not true, but also not really relevant -- I was using it only as an example, since it's my home DSL. My big stuff is somewhere else with big pipes (> 7 DS-3s, last I looked) > I would think this would be a bit the opposite. Again -- you THINK. I've done. > What I have: > A personally built server (PIII 500, 256mb memory, 30g hd) > a 1.1 sdsl line > 5 fully hosted domains > 23 users (maybe a third of which are decently active for mail and web demands) > 5 email lists running on mailman, the largest of which is about 300 users. > mrtg to keep track of bandwidth usage > basic algebra Ah, thanks. You finally admit you don't know and haven't done. I've done lists up into the seven digit size. We've experimented with URLs and click-ins. If you're talking about 300 users max, it doesn't matter what you do. ANYTHING works. It doesn't scale, though. But believe what you want. Trust your algebra. I suggest you don't sell the service until you know for sure, though with real numbers. From claw at kanga.nu Sun May 13 19:43:51 2001 From: claw at kanga.nu (J C Lawrence) Date: Sun, 13 May 2001 10:43:51 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] big lists, big messages In-Reply-To: Message from alex wetmore of "Sun, 13 May 2001 08:46:57 PDT." <20010513083957.P91149-100000@phred.org> References: <20010513083957.P91149-100000@phred.org> Message-ID: <14017.989775831@kanga.nu> On Sun, 13 May 2001 08:46:57 -0700 (PDT) alex wetmore wrote: > My mailman installation talks to the Windows 2000 SMTP MTA, where > there are no performance problems with having the batching set to > a very high number. Multiple queues can send out the same message > at the same time. Using high SMTP_MAX_RCPTS numbers results in a > lot less disk activity and also means that all of my mail going to > hotmail.com or aol.com can get sent in one transaction. There's reason to keep the RCPT TO envelope reasonably small to prevent triggering some ISP's SPAM traps. Specifically, this appears to be one of the filter points that AOL uses (and of course it then drops the caught mail silently without a bounce of warning). -- J C Lawrence claw at kanga.nu ---------(*) http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/ The pressure to survive and rhetoric may make strange bedfellows From joe at LADWP.net Sun May 13 23:58:51 2001 From: joe at LADWP.net (Joe Copeland) Date: Sun, 13 May 2001 14:58:51 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] configuration problem Message-ID: <00cd01c0dbf7$e50fd900$0a01a8c0@joecopeland.net> Hi, I'm trying to set up mailman but I'm not getting something right. When I go to my mailman site's admin page, http://www.deangeuls.com/mailman/admin, I can see a list of links that I have set up with the ./newlist command. But when I click on one of the links to administer the list, I get nowhere. I'm Running RH7.1 and Apache. Any ideas what's wrong? I tried installing off the tarball and the RPM from Red Hat, but I can't get over this big hump. Joe From alex at phred.org Mon May 14 01:16:44 2001 From: alex at phred.org (alex wetmore) Date: Sun, 13 May 2001 16:16:44 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Mailman-Users] big lists, big messages In-Reply-To: <14017.989775831@kanga.nu> Message-ID: <20010513161434.G91149-100000@phred.org> On Sun, 13 May 2001, J C Lawrence wrote: > There's reason to keep the RCPT TO envelope reasonably small to > prevent triggering some ISP's SPAM traps. Specifically, this > appears to be one of the filter points that AOL uses (and of course > it then drops the caught mail silently without a bounce of warning). Do you have any details on AOL's spam filters? None of my AOL readers have complained about missing email. It looks like my largest list has 60 digested and 55 regular AOL members, so I'm guessing that their spam filter is set to a higher threshold than that. alex From rbp at netcanvas.com Mon May 14 02:05:41 2001 From: rbp at netcanvas.com (Rodrigo Borges Pereira) Date: Mon, 14 May 2001 01:05:41 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman + Qmail + Virtual domain Message-ID: Hello all. I installed Mailman on my server, and i want all the lists to run with domain lists.domain.com. So i setup DNS, add lists.domain.com to rcpthosts and lists.domain.com:mailman to virtualdomains under /var/qmail/control. After that, i create a test list, "newlist testlist". Then I configured /var/mailman/.qmail-default to use 'qmail-to-mailman.py'. When i subscribe using the web interface, i do get a e-mail from "testlist-admin at lists.domain.com; on behalf of testlist-request at lists.domain.com", welcoming me to the list. However, every time i send a mail to testlist at lists.domain.com, i get a bounce from MAILER-DAEMON saying: ------------ Hi. This is the qmail-send program at domain.com. I'm afraid I wasn't able to deliver your message to the following addresses. This is a permanent error; I've given up. Sorry it didn't work out. : Sorry, no mailbox here by that name. (#5.1.1) ------------ A also tried not using 'qmail-to-mailman.py', and used a script that comes with the program that creates all the .qmail files. Same result. What i'm i doing wrong? Any help will be appreciated, tks in advance. From claw at kanga.nu Mon May 14 04:32:37 2001 From: claw at kanga.nu (J C Lawrence) Date: Sun, 13 May 2001 19:32:37 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] big lists, big messages In-Reply-To: Message from alex wetmore of "Sun, 13 May 2001 16:16:44 PDT." <20010513161434.G91149-100000@phred.org> References: <20010513161434.G91149-100000@phred.org> Message-ID: <27689.989807557@kanga.nu> On Sun, 13 May 2001 16:16:44 -0700 (PDT) alex wetmore wrote: > On Sun, 13 May 2001, J C Lawrence wrote: >> There's reason to keep the RCPT TO envelope reasonably small to >> prevent triggering some ISP's SPAM traps. Specifically, this >> appears to be one of the filter points that AOL uses (and of >> course it then drops the caught mail silently without a bounce of >> warning). > Do you have any details on AOL's spam filters? None of my AOL > readers have complained about missing email. It looks like my > largest list has 60 digested and 55 regular AOL members, so I'm > guessing that their spam filter is set to a higher threshold than > that. They appear to be using a multi-valued metric for their spam detection -- and to change their metrics regularly. See: http://members.aol.com/adamkb/aol/mailfaq/dropped-mail.html#lists -- J C Lawrence claw at kanga.nu ---------(*) http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/ The pressure to survive and rhetoric may make strange bedfellows From alex at phred.org Mon May 14 05:26:22 2001 From: alex at phred.org (alex wetmore) Date: Sun, 13 May 2001 20:26:22 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Mailman-Users] big lists, big messages In-Reply-To: <27689.989807557@kanga.nu> Message-ID: <20010513202532.K91149-100000@phred.org> On Sun, 13 May 2001, J C Lawrence wrote: > On Sun, 13 May 2001 16:16:44 -0700 (PDT) > alex wetmore wrote: > > > On Sun, 13 May 2001, J C Lawrence wrote: > >> There's reason to keep the RCPT TO envelope reasonably small to > >> prevent triggering some ISP's SPAM traps. Specifically, this > >> appears to be one of the filter points that AOL uses (and of > >> course it then drops the caught mail silently without a bounce of > >> warning). > > > Do you have any details on AOL's spam filters? None of my AOL > > readers have complained about missing email. It looks like my > > largest list has 60 digested and 55 regular AOL members, so I'm > > guessing that their spam filter is set to a higher threshold than > > that. > > They appear to be using a multi-valued metric for their spam > detection -- and to change their metrics regularly. See: > > http://members.aol.com/adamkb/aol/mailfaq/dropped-mail.html#lists It doesn't sound like it makes a huge difference if they are batched up at once, or if they come very quickly on different messages. "If a mailing list server sends too much mail in too short a time to a number of AOL members, AOL will consider it questionable and delete it." alex From borisk at xraymedia.com Mon May 14 06:30:15 2001 From: borisk at xraymedia.com (Boris Krivulin) Date: Sun, 13 May 2001 21:30:15 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Mailman-Users] porblem with one domain Message-ID: Hi Guys, We, xraymedia.com, are setting up mailman (lists.xray.tv). In addition we are setting up a mail server supporting web and pop access (mail.xray.tv). Separately they both work fine. When an xray.tv user ( e.g. test at xray.tv) appears as a list member, he/she doesn't receive mass mail. There is one exception -- the 'welcome' message and confirmation messages do come. Question: why only half works ? Is the welcome message sending code different than the mass-mailing one ? -bk From claw at kanga.nu Mon May 14 07:50:28 2001 From: claw at kanga.nu (J C Lawrence) Date: Sun, 13 May 2001 22:50:28 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] porblem with one domain In-Reply-To: Message from Boris Krivulin of "Sun, 13 May 2001 21:30:15 PDT." References: Message-ID: <13026.989819428@kanga.nu> On Sun, 13 May 2001 21:30:15 -0700 (PDT) Boris Krivulin wrote: > Question: why only half works ? Is the welcome message sending > code different than the mass-mailing one ? Read your MTA logs with care. Its alsmost certain that the clues are there. -- J C Lawrence claw at kanga.nu ---------(*) http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/ The pressure to survive and rhetoric may make strange bedfellows From vijay at buydeal.com Mon May 14 10:39:21 2001 From: vijay at buydeal.com (vijay) Date: Mon, 14 May 2001 14:09:21 +0530 Subject: [Mailman-Users] configuration problem In-Reply-To: <00cd01c0dbf7$e50fd900$0a01a8c0@joecopeland.net> Message-ID: <200105140837.f4E8bZ920946@sun01314.dn.net> Hello joe, webserver is unable to resolve your hostname or domainname, by default Mailman takes system configuration like hostname etc. Check you DEFAULT_URL in Mailman/Defaults.py. change it to your http://IPADDRESS/mailman. Regards Vijay -----Original Message----- From: "Joe Copeland" To: "Mailman Users Group" Date: Sun, 13 May 2001 14:58:51 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] configuration problem > Hi, > > I'm trying to set up mailman but I'm not getting something right. > > When I go to my mailman site's admin page, > http://www.deangeuls.com/mailman/admin, I can see a list of links that > I > have set up with the ./newlist command. But when I click on one of the > links to administer the list, I get nowhere. > > I'm Running RH7.1 and Apache. Any ideas what's wrong? I tried > installing > off the tarball and the RPM from Red Hat, but I can't get over this big > hump. > > Joe > > > ------------------------------------------------------ > Mailman-Users maillist - Mailman-Users at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users > From mzac at northco.net Mon May 14 16:58:58 2001 From: mzac at northco.net (Zachary McGibbon) Date: Mon, 14 May 2001 10:58:58 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Mailman-Users] Almost got it working with qmail Message-ID: Need some help getting qmail to work.. it's very odd what I've got here, but maybe it's normal... my /var/qmail/control/virtualdomans has: lists.northco.net:mailman then in /usr/local/mailman/.qmail-default I have: |preline /usr/local/bin/python /usr/local/mailman/qmail-to-mailman.py When I sent mail to listname at lists.northco.net the mail gets deliered into the /usr/local/mailman/qfiles dir however I have to run the cron script: * * * * * /usr/local/bin/python -S /usr/local/mailman/cron/qrunner to get the messages sent out.. is there something I'm doing wrong? The qmail-to-mailman script looks like it's supposed to send the mail directly into qmail-inject but it's not doing that... Zachary McGibbon VA2ZAC - mzac at northco.net http://www.northco.net/mzac/ From wrd at awenet.com Mon May 14 19:19:03 2001 From: wrd at awenet.com (William R. Dickson) Date: Mon, 14 May 2001 10:19:03 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Mailman-Users] umbrella_list configuration in 2.0.5 Message-ID: Hi all, So, I believe I've figured out what's going on with my list, RE the problem I reported Friday -- under 2.0.5, a new list I've created is sending confirmation mail to would-be subscribers (for example, wrd at awenet.com) to wrd-owner at awenet.com. It appears that this is normal behavior for an umbrella list. However, there doesn't seem to be an option on the configuration pages to turn umbrella_list off. There's an option to set the suffix for list owners on an umbrella_list, but that's all I can find. I'm not sure why it's defaulting to umbrella_list on for new lists. Any suggestions appreciated. Thanks, -Bill -- William R. Dickson -- Consuming the Earth's limited resources since 1968 wrd at awenet.com http://www.manoutoftime.org/ I don't mind it if you don't like my manners. They're pretty bad. I grieve over them during the long winter evenings. -Raymond Chandler, "The Big Sleep" From OmrPrt at aol.com Mon May 14 19:26:41 2001 From: OmrPrt at aol.com (OmrPrt at aol.com) Date: Mon, 14 May 2001 13:26:41 EDT Subject: [Mailman-Users] Read only list? Message-ID: <16.cc826b4.28316f51@aol.com> how do I make a list read only? Omar -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20010514/ba80bda0/attachment.html From joe at LADWP.net Mon May 14 19:50:28 2001 From: joe at LADWP.net (Joe Copeland) Date: Mon, 14 May 2001 10:50:28 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] configuration problem References: <200105140837.f4E8bZ920946@sun01314.dn.net> Message-ID: <005a01c0dc9e$5ca2f1e0$0a01a8c0@joecopeland.net> I am able to access the admin and listinfo page fine. The error comes when I try to delve deeper into modifying the list information itself. For instance I (and you) can accesst the page http://www.deangelus.com/mailman/admin. But when I click on the link to access the "test2" list, the webserver times out. I think that the ScriptAlias directive in apache is doing it's job fine. ScriptAlias /mailman/ "/var/mailman/cgi-bin/" It must be since I am able to access the page http://www.deangelus.com/mailman/admin and http://www.deangelus.com/mailman/listinfo. The breakdown appears when I try to administer the individual list or try to subscribe to the individual list. That is the information contained in /var/mailman/lists/test2 Is there any way I can get some more information that may help resolve this problem? The error logs show nothing helpful. What is interesting is if I go to try to administer a nonexistent list such as http://www.deangelus.com/mailman/admin/no_such_list, I get a proper reply from Mailman saying that the list does not exist and an error in the ../mailman/logs/error file. But when I try to administer an existing list, Mailman hangs on me. Thanks for you help, Joe ----- Original Message ----- From: "vijay" To: "Joe Copeland" Cc: Sent: Monday, May 14, 2001 1:39 AM Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] configuration problem > > Hello joe, > > webserver is unable to resolve your hostname or domainname, by > default Mailman takes system configuration like hostname etc. Check you > DEFAULT_URL in Mailman/Defaults.py. change it to your > http://IPADDRESS/mailman. > > Regards > Vijay > > -----Original Message----- > From: "Joe Copeland" > To: "Mailman Users Group" > Date: Sun, 13 May 2001 14:58:51 -0700 > Subject: [Mailman-Users] configuration problem > > > Hi, > > > > I'm trying to set up mailman but I'm not getting something right. > > > > When I go to my mailman site's admin page, > > http://www.deangeuls.com/mailman/admin, I can see a list of links that > > I > > have set up with the ./newlist command. But when I click on one of the > > links to administer the list, I get nowhere. > > > > I'm Running RH7.1 and Apache. Any ideas what's wrong? I tried > > installing > > off the tarball and the RPM from Red Hat, but I can't get over this big > > hump. > > > > Joe > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------ > > Mailman-Users maillist - Mailman-Users at python.org > > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------ > Mailman-Users maillist - Mailman-Users at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users From eschmitz at webbalah.net Mon May 14 21:13:42 2001 From: eschmitz at webbalah.net (Eric Schmitz) Date: Mon, 14 May 2001 14:13:42 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] big lists, big messages References: Message-ID: <3B002E66.7D6C62DA@webbalah.net> Zowie! I seem to have started a major thread here! Thenks everyone for all the advice. I can't pretend to understand everything, since I'm not exactly an e-mail god, but I appreciate the suggestions and will try some. I too had considered going to an "abstract format" for the newsletter, but it looks like that might 1) not solve my problem, and 2) have troubles of its own. Would definitely mean more work for me, the webmaster. (My wife actually writes the newsletter.) I'll look into the use of other MTAs. I have a question in to my tech support people about that. I run a virtual server, and I'm not sure what is available in the way of alternative MTAs. I may be stuck with sendmail. We'll see. All that being said, I do think Mailman is going to be the way to go, just for its robust feature set and ease of use and configuration. I've already figured out how to place rotating ads in the headers and footers, and I appreciate the way it dynamically generates interface pages for users and list admins to configure their subscriptions and lists. Very cool! Again, thanks everyone for *all* the help! This is a really great list! -Eric Schmitz -- "So long, and thanks for all the fish." -Douglas Adams, 1952 - 2001 From rangaraj at columbus.rr.com Mon May 14 22:12:59 2001 From: rangaraj at columbus.rr.com (Raj Rangaraj) Date: Mon, 14 May 2001 16:12:59 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] unsubscibe Message-ID: Hi Please unsubscribe me from the list. Thanks Raj From Paul.Ondercin at motorola.com Mon May 14 22:30:57 2001 From: Paul.Ondercin at motorola.com (Ondercin Paul-O10322) Date: Mon, 14 May 2001 13:30:57 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] unsubscibe Message-ID: > Subject: [Mailman-Users] unsubscibe > > > Hi Please unsubscribe me from the list. > Thanks > Raj *SIGH* No one ever learns how * * * R U D E * * * it is to send stuff like this to several thousand people. Aurgh. And just ignore the pretty little link pasted in each message tail. Of course, I'm completely ignoring the fact that I just did. :> > ------------------------------------------------------ > Mailman-Users maillist - Mailman-Users at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users > > From joe at LADWP.net Tue May 15 02:06:36 2001 From: joe at LADWP.net (Joe Copeland) Date: Mon, 14 May 2001 17:06:36 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] configuration problem References: Message-ID: <007401c0dcd2$e8612f60$0a01a8c0@joecopeland.net> Ok, now I'm getting somewhere with this mailman installation. I intstalled the mailman RPM on my laptop which has RH7.0 installed. I can now peruse the ../admin/testlist page. I couldn't do that with the RH7.1. So there's something about RH7.1 that prohibits mailman from working properly. One of the differences between RH7.1 and RH7.0 are some security tweaks. Figuring this one out is going to be a challenge for me since I'm no expert. If anyone gets mailman working on RH7.1 please let me, and the list know how you did it. Thanks, Joe ----- Original Message ----- From: "arif" To: "Joe Copeland" Sent: Monday, May 14, 2001 1:26 PM Subject: RE: [Mailman-Users] configuration problem > Just out of curiosity, does the list itself work? I ask because I'm > wondering if this is a problem with mailman, or with apache and hence only > the web-interface to mailman. > > -arif > > -----Original Message----- > From: mailman-users-admin at python.org > [mailto:mailman-users-admin at python.org]On Behalf Of Joe Copeland > Sent: Monday, May 14, 2001 1:50 PM > To: vijay > Cc: mailman-users at python.org > Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] configuration problem > > > I am able to access the admin and listinfo page fine. The error comes when > I try to delve deeper into modifying the list information itself. > > For instance I (and you) can accesst the page > http://www.deangelus.com/mailman/admin. But when I click on the link to > access the "test2" list, the webserver times out. > > I think that the ScriptAlias directive in apache is doing it's job fine. > > ScriptAlias /mailman/ "/var/mailman/cgi-bin/" > > It must be since I am able to access the page > http://www.deangelus.com/mailman/admin and > http://www.deangelus.com/mailman/listinfo. > > The breakdown appears when I try to administer the individual list or try to > subscribe to the individual list. That is the information contained in > /var/mailman/lists/test2 > > Is there any way I can get some more information that may help resolve this > problem? The error logs show nothing helpful. > > What is interesting is if I go to try to administer a nonexistent list such > as http://www.deangelus.com/mailman/admin/no_such_list, I get a proper reply > from Mailman saying that the list does not exist and an error in the > ../mailman/logs/error file. But when I try to administer an existing list, > Mailman hangs on me. > > Thanks for you help, > > Joe > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "vijay" > To: "Joe Copeland" > Cc: > Sent: Monday, May 14, 2001 1:39 AM > Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] configuration problem > > > > > > Hello joe, > > > > webserver is unable to resolve your hostname or domainname, by > > default Mailman takes system configuration like hostname etc. Check you > > DEFAULT_URL in Mailman/Defaults.py. change it to your > > http://IPADDRESS/mailman. > > > > Regards > > Vijay > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: "Joe Copeland" > > To: "Mailman Users Group" > > Date: Sun, 13 May 2001 14:58:51 -0700 > > Subject: [Mailman-Users] configuration problem > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > I'm trying to set up mailman but I'm not getting something right. > > > > > > When I go to my mailman site's admin page, > > > http://www.deangeuls.com/mailman/admin, I can see a list of links that > > > I > > > have set up with the ./newlist command. But when I click on one of the > > > links to administer the list, I get nowhere. > > > > > > I'm Running RH7.1 and Apache. Any ideas what's wrong? I tried > > > installing > > > off the tarball and the RPM from Red Hat, but I can't get over this big > > > hump. > > > > > > Joe > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------ > > > Mailman-Users maillist - Mailman-Users at python.org > > > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------ > > Mailman-Users maillist - Mailman-Users at python.org > > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users > > > ------------------------------------------------------ > Mailman-Users maillist - Mailman-Users at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users From morris at unc.edu Tue May 15 03:21:18 2001 From: morris at unc.edu (Joe Morris) Date: Mon, 14 May 2001 21:21:18 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time) Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 2.0.5 is broken on RH70 Message-ID: Anyone reading the mail here, folks? I and several other people have reported problems with upgrading to Mailman 2.0.5 and have things go dead. Common problem is no response to email messages sent to -request aliases. I have not changed my MTA, sendmail reports delivery of message to the program, there are no errors, nothing to point a finger at. It simply disappears into a black hole inside of Mailman. Would someone please take a closer look at this? If this is a bad dsitribution, then please tell us and yank from the site so we're not stuck scratching our heads wondering what we've done wrong. _______________________________________________________ Joe Morris http://www.ibiblio.org/morris Web Systems Manager, ATN http://help.unc.edu UNC-Chapel Hill http://www.unc.edu From ashley at pcraft.com Tue May 15 03:33:17 2001 From: ashley at pcraft.com (Ashley M. Kirchner) Date: Mon, 14 May 2001 19:33:17 -0600 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Nested MAIL command? Message-ID: <3B00875C.BDC680DB@pcraft.com> Mailman suddenly started causing these errors, after nothing was changed for months: SYSERR(root): Nested MAIL command: MAIL From: And every time that error pops up, over half of the queue gets mysteriously lost. It's just gone. Help! -- H | Hi, I'm currently out of my mind. Please leave a message. BEEEEP! +-------------------------------------------------------------------- Ashley M. Kirchner . 303.442.6410 x130 Director of Internet Operations / SysAdmin . 800.441.3873 x130 Photo Craft Laboratories, Inc. . 3550 Arapahoe Ave, #6 http://www.pcraft.com ..... . . . Boulder, CO 80303, U.S.A. From bilbrey at orbdesigns.com Tue May 15 04:37:34 2001 From: bilbrey at orbdesigns.com (Brian Bilbrey) Date: Mon, 14 May 2001 19:37:34 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 2.0.5 is broken on RH70 In-Reply-To: ; from morris@unc.edu on Mon, May 14, 2001 at 09:21:18PM -0400 References: Message-ID: <20010514193734.A2706@orbdesigns.com> Mmmmm. Installed Mailman 2.05 last week, running with Postfix in both main and virtual domain lists, no problems with the install, a few hinks making Postfix work with the virtual domain lists - otherwise a flawless install and operation to date. I can't speak to installation with sendmail on this box, I suppose I could bring it up on my laptop which is currently at RH 7.1 with Sendmail installed - does everything fall down when you try doing all the test bits during install? Details? .brian On Mon, May 14, 2001 at 09:21:18PM -0400, Joe Morris wrote: > Anyone reading the mail here, folks? I and several other people have > reported problems with upgrading to Mailman 2.0.5 and have things go dead. > Common problem is no response to email messages sent to -request > aliases. > > I have not changed my MTA, sendmail reports delivery of message to the > program, there are no errors, nothing to point a finger at. It simply > disappears into a black hole inside of Mailman. > > Would someone please take a closer look at this? If this is a bad > dsitribution, then please tell us and yank from the site so we're not > stuck scratching our heads wondering what we've done wrong. > > > _______________________________________________________ > Joe Morris http://www.ibiblio.org/morris > Web Systems Manager, ATN http://help.unc.edu > UNC-Chapel Hill http://www.unc.edu > > > ------------------------------------------------------ > Mailman-Users maillist - Mailman-Users at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users -- Brian Bilbrey :: bilbrey at orbdesigns.com :: www.orbdesigns.com "In times of great joy, it is a comfort to know that tragedy is just around the corner." - An Irish proverb From webmaster at isu.edu Fri May 11 15:54:43 2001 From: webmaster at isu.edu (Webmaster) Date: Fri, 11 May 2001 07:54:43 -0600 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Qrunner error Message-ID: <3AFBEF23.AEF4668B@isu.edu> Does anyone know what this error means and how to fix it. Traceback (innermost last): File "/home/mailman/cron/qrunner", line 78, in ? import time ImportError: /usr/lib/python1.5/lib-dynload/timemodule.so: undefined symbol: PyErr_Format -- ############################### Webmaster webmaster at isu.edu Computing & Communications ################################ From webmaster at diviningmind.com Sat May 12 05:23:39 2001 From: webmaster at diviningmind.com (webmaster at diviningmind.com) Date: Fri, 11 May 2001 20:23:39 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] merge-mail feature Message-ID: <3AFC4A4B.29511.26E4A1B@localhost> Hi there! I'd like to find out if Mailman supports mail-merge - adding names and other fields to the messages sent in an announcement mode. Thank you, Chris Gozdzik "Dowsing Tools with a difference" http://diviningmind.com From Idris_ali_2000 at globalelectronicommerce.com Sun May 13 15:01:20 2001 From: Idris_ali_2000 at globalelectronicommerce.com (Idris Ali) Date: Sun, 13 May 2001 14:01:20 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Users] help Message-ID: <005001c0dbac$cf014a40$02000003@aliy> Dear friend, I would really appreciate if you can help me end this frustrating torment in searching the right product. I really would very much appreciate your help. Can you kindly see if you can help me? Do you have a webmailing list where I can simply subscribe addresses all in 1 go and not 1 by 1 or not where the email address owners have to reply to a message from the mailing list as a confirmation to subscription? I just want to copy addresses from my txt file and paste them into the subscription box so they are automatically subscribed. So, I can send them messages everytime. I'll tell you what I am looking for and maybe you can see if you have the right software. I have a company that regularly bulkemails their clients' ads to "Opt-in" lists. Because they are busy, they would like to give the bulkemailing to freelancers. I took the work but the software that the company gave me "Speedymailer" is a desktop bulkemailer. So, that means, I can only use the software to bulkemail to the "Opt-in" lists only from my home computer where "Speedymailer" is installed. I won't be able to bulkemail when I am away from home. I would like a remote system but I really don't know how they work. So, I thought that if I install a webmailserver on my computer then I can use any computer (away from home) to log-in to my webmail account and bulkemail via my webmailserver on my computer but the webmailservers I have been testing for the past 8 days are ridiculous. I have 500,000 email addresses on a txt file with 500,000 lines. 1 address in each line. I try to copy and paste all the addresses in the BCC: field but only the 1st address in the 1st line get pasted the rest don't. So, that means, in order to paste all addresses in the BCC: field. I have to copy and paste 500,000 times! Ridiculous! Example: I have a text file of address in the following format: 1 at 1.com , 2 at 2.com 3 at 3.com , 4 at 4.com 5 at 5.com , 6 at 6.com etc. and when I copy all these names from the text file and paste them on the BCC: field. Only 1 line is copied. It shows on the BCC: field like this: 1 at 1.com , 2 at 2.com when it should be showing all the names like: 1 at 1.com , 2 at 2.com , 3 at 3.com , 4 at 4.com , 5 at 5.com , 6 at 6.com Do you understand the problem? It only copies 1 line of the names and not all lines of the names from the txt file. How can I solve this problem? The other option, I thought, was to purchase a webmailing list and not a simple desktop mailing list so I can install it on my computer and still be able to use it when I am away from home by using another computer. But this webmailing list must allow me to subscribe email addresses myself as if I mail a message to the "Opt-in" lists to subscribe again to "my new webmailing list" it will be an inconvenience to them and the main co. may get complains and I'll lose the work. Do you understand? So, can you help me somehow? If not, do you know of any other companies that sell what I am looking for? A shareware? A freeware? Anything? If you cannot help then please give me instructions how to use the non web or non-www bulkemail software "Speedymailer" that is a desktop software installed on my computer. Or if "Speedymailer" is confusing you then please give me instructions how I can use my home computers' Outlook Express email client by remote system from another computer when I am away from home. Ali -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20010513/86f92ff7/attachment.htm From simon at beesianum.jasmine.org.uk Sun May 13 20:22:37 2001 From: simon at beesianum.jasmine.org.uk (Simon Brooke) Date: Sun, 13 May 2001 19:22:37 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Users] 'Security: denied hard link...' Message-ID: <01051319223700.27088@gododdin> Hi We have two more or less identical machines with very similar software installs - both Mandrake 7.0, both have had exactly the same security fixes (mostly to BIND), both run Apache 1.3.9 with mod_jserv as user webserver, group webserver (201, 201 in both cases). Recently we've installed mailman on both machines, using (as far as we can see) identical installs. One works well, the other doesn't work. What goes wrong? Well, for most actions performed through the Web interface, the user experiences timeout on the browser, and we get the following written to the console: Security: denied hard link to 509.511 for UID 201, EUID 201, process python:8347 We get the following written to /opt/mailman/logs/error May 13 18:47:47 2001 (8146) Traceback (innermost last): File "../Mailman/Handlers/HandlerAPI.py", line 82, in do_pipeline func(mlist, msg, msgdata) File "../Mailman/Handlers/SMTPDirect.py", line 77, in process mlist.Lock() File "../Mailman/MailList.py", line 1338, in Lock self.__lock.lock(timeout) File "../Mailman/LockFile.py", line 266, in lock raise AlreadyLockedError AlreadyLockedError: May 13 18:47:47 2001 admin(8146): @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ admin(8146): [----- Mailman Version: 2.0.3 -----] admin(8146): [----- Traceback ------] admin(8146): Traceback (innermost last): admin(8146): File "/opt/mailman/scripts/driver", line 96, in run_main admin(8146): main() admin(8146): File "../Mailman/Cgi/subscribe.py", line 55, in main admin(8146): mlist.Save() admin(8146): File "../Mailman/MailList.py", line 856, in Save admin(8146): self.__save(dict) admin(8146): File "../Mailman/MailList.py", line 832, in __save admin(8146): os.link(fname, fname_last) admin(8146): OSError: [Errno 1] Operation not permitted admin(8146): [----- Python Information -----] admin(8146): sys.version = 1.5.2 (#1, Dec 8 1999, 21:20:51) [GCC 2.95.2 19991024 (release)] admin(8146): sys.executable = /usr/bin/python admin(8146): sys.prefix = /usr admin(8146): sys.exec_prefix= /usr admin(8146): sys.path = /usr admin(8146): sys.platform = linux-i386 Sure enough, in the /opt/mailman/locks directory we find dead lockfiles. The *very* odd thing is that these dead lock files have dates one day in the future with respect to the system clock: [simon at beesianum simon]$ ls -l /opt/mailman/locks/ total 20 -rw-rw-r-- 2 mailman mailman 60 May 14 2001 tesst1.lock -rw-rw-r-- 2 mailman mailman 60 May 14 2001 tesst1.lock.beesianum.jasmine.org.uk.8861 -rw-rw-r-- 2 webserve mailman 58 May 14 2001 test.lock -rw-rw-r-- 2 webserve mailman 58 May 14 2001 test.lock.beesianum.jasmine.org.uk.8863 -rw-rw-r-- 1 webserve mailman 58 May 14 2001 test.lock.beesianum.jasmine.org.uk.8901 [simon at beesianum simon]$ date Sun May 13 19:21:47 BST 2001 We've done a Google search on 'mailman denied hard link' and have identified that this problem has occurred for other people: While all these messages report the problem, none that we've found is followed up with a suggested solution... Any suggestions very much welcomed! Cheers Simon -- simon at jasmine.org.uk (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/ ,/| _.--''^``-...___.._.,; /, \'. _-' ,--,,,--''' { \ `_-'' ' / `;;' ; ; ; ._..--'' ._,,, _..' .;.' (,_....----''' (,..--'' From detlef.neubauer at charite.de Mon May 14 11:48:17 2001 From: detlef.neubauer at charite.de (Detlef Neubauer) Date: 14 May 2001 11:48:17 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Question... In-Reply-To: OmrPrt@aol.com's message of "Fri, 11 May 2001 10:59:46 EDT" References: <6a.e0c2c03.282d5862@aol.com> Message-ID: OmrPrt at aol.com writes: > How do I make a list read only? ?Meaning I am the only one that can send out > messages to the list, and no one else can post. > Omar Portillo Privacy Options General Posting Filters Must posts be approved by an administrator? Yes Restrict posting privilege to list members? No Addresses of members accepted for posting to this list without implicit approval requirement. email.from.the at allowed.posters Gru? Detlef Neubauer -- .oO GnuPG Key auf http://germany.keyserver.net/ Oo. From manojit at megaeservices.com Mon May 14 12:40:29 2001 From: manojit at megaeservices.com (Manojit Saha) Date: Mon, 14 May 2001 16:10:29 +0530 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help me Message-ID: <002f01c0dc62$5d40afc0$ce00a8c0@dev.mega.co.in> How can I run Mailman with Qmail.How will I create Aliases of mailing lists? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20010514/74db7994/attachment.html From daboucoy at midway.uchicago.edu Mon May 14 15:34:56 2001 From: daboucoy at midway.uchicago.edu (Deborah A. Boucoyannis) Date: Mon, 14 May 2001 08:34:56 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: question on blocking posts Message-ID: Hello, Is there a feature that would allow us to block any postings by some email addresses. Currently, the list is moderated, so approval is needed. Even though we have repeatedly asked some person not to send us messages, since they are inappropriate for the list, he continues to do so, meaning we have to enter the administrator page and reject the posting every time he sends a message, which is often. Is there no filter that automatically rejects a message from an unwanted source? Many thanks, Deborah Re: https://listhost.uchicago.edu/mailman/listinfo/hso ____________________________________________ Deborah A. Boucoyannis PhD Candidate Department of Political Science University of Chicago 5828 South University Avenue Chicago Il 60637 daboucoy at midway.uchicago.edu From ari at bear.com Mon May 14 15:54:16 2001 From: ari at bear.com (Rabinowitz, Ari (Exchange)) Date: Mon, 14 May 2001 09:54:16 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] big lists, big messages Message-ID: Chuq, Thanks for all of your good ideas in this thread. I'm new to Postfix, and Mailman. How would I defer DNS in Postfix? I have a few lists (read only) with about 1200 addresses that send out only a few messages a day, at most. I have MAX_RCPT_TO set to 500 so I would expect mailman to split the lists into 3 messages, although it ends up splitting into 4 messages, two with about 500 recipients each, and then two smaller lists instead of just one. I am using Postfix as the MTA and it seems to work well, but I notice from the logs that it seems that Postfix only gets one message at a time from Mailman. Is this because of my Mailman settings or my Postfix settings? What controls this? Any suggestions as to speeding up delivery of the messages would be appreciated. Thanks, Ari Rabinowitz -----Original Message----- From: Chuq Von Rospach [mailto:chuqui at plaidworks.com] Sent: Sunday, May 13, 2001 2:21 AM To: J C Lawrence Cc: Ian White; Mailman Users Group Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] big lists, big messages On 5/12/01 10:51 PM, "J C Lawrence" wrote: > I find this curious. I have MAX_RCPT_TO set to 5, and to broadcast > 30 messages to a subscriber base of 1,000 (ie 6,000 spool entries) > through qrunner to the MTA (postfix) on a dual PII-333 takes just > over 6 seconds once started. Admittedly that's an appreciable time, > but its also not that long a time in the lands of lock contention > and lock timeouts. It all comes down to how fast your MTA accepts messages. If you're running postfix with DNS deferred, you rock. If you're running sendmail with DNS on, it's a lot slower. So it's something you have to judge based on your own system. ------------------------------------------------------ Mailman-Users maillist - Mailman-Users at python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users *********************************************************************** Bear Stearns is not responsible for any recommendation, solicitation, offer or agreement or any information about any transaction, customer account or account activity contained in this communication. *********************************************************************** From josh at ernestallen.com Mon May 14 23:49:31 2001 From: josh at ernestallen.com (Joshua Erdman) Date: Mon, 14 May 2001 14:49:31 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Problem Message-ID: <000e01c0dcbf$c285d970$02930440@tron> I have administrative access to the list. But my posts (and no one else's either) go through. I took a look at the logs files and here is what I found: in the post file: May 14 14:18:13 2001 (537) post to eaa-employees from josh at ernestallen.com, size=301, 19 failures in the SMTP File: May 14 14:18:12 2001 (537) All recipients refused: host not found May 14 14:18:12 2001 (537) smtp for 19 recips, completed in 0.005 seconds in SMTP-failure file: May 14 14:18:13 2001 (537) -1 josh at ernestallen.com (ignore) .. .. .. and a line for every user on that list I am looking that the SMTP file and am wondering what "host not found" means. Can anyone help me? Joshua Erdman Ernest & Allen, Inc. CIO/Network Systems Administrator Tel (805) 781-0317 Fax (805) 781-0725 josh at ernestallen.com From jrudd at cats.ucsc.edu Tue May 15 00:05:06 2001 From: jrudd at cats.ucsc.edu (John Rudd) Date: Mon, 14 May 2001 15:05:06 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] question about authentication Message-ID: <3B005692.F48A4AF6@cats.ucsc.edu> How do you authenticate that a user is who they say they are when they're entering subscription requests at the web interface? Do you do a mailback for confirmation? (I think this would actually be a minus, due to the nature of our users) Do you provide a password mechanism to avoid the mailback? If so, can it interface with kerberos? I don't know if you're familiar with Athena, Moira, and Moira's "listmaint" software, but we're looking to replace the Athena mailing list software with something new, and mailman sounds promising. I just need a way to authenticate unsophisticated users... and we tend to use our kerberos realm more as a distributed password system (that has better security than NIS) than as an ultra-secure authentication system. -- John "kzin" Rudd http://www.domain.org/users/kzin Truth decays into beauty, while beauty soon becomes merely charm. Charm ends up as strangeness, and even that doesn't last. (Physics of Quarks) -----===== Kein Mitleid Fu:r MicroSoft (www.kmfms.com) ======----- From grobin at nn.independent.co.za Tue May 15 09:47:35 2001 From: grobin at nn.independent.co.za (Rob Gould) Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 09:47:35 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Expert help please! Change Welcome Msg? Message-ID: <00fd01c0dd13$4f24c1e0$6f5a58a4@nn.independent.co.za> Hello... Is there any way to change the generic technical info included in the welcome msg? I am only wanting to run an announcement list so do not need to provide the option to post messages. Thanks. Rob grobin at nn.independent.co.za -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20010515/5065245e/attachment.htm From emanzaman at hotmail.com Tue May 15 13:58:16 2001 From: emanzaman at hotmail.com (ez) Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 12:58:16 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Desi-os maps spamming Message-ID: Dear Mailman As I am sure you are aware, yesterday thousands of users were spammed from the following e-dress: which seems to be linked with Mailman. As of yet, no-one has received either an explanation or an apology and I believe one should be forthcoming. Please could you explain to me the following: * How did this incidence occur? * Where did you get all the e-dresses from? No one subscribed to the list or gave permission for their emails to be passed on to your company. * Is there anything we can do to stop such an incidence occuring again? * Will you be issuing an apology and a guarantee that this shall not occur again? Please remove my e-dress from any lists you may have and please supply where you got my edress from. Thank you for your time. ez -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20010515/0048be0d/attachment.html From eco at seaoasis.com Tue May 15 15:03:49 2001 From: eco at seaoasis.com (Ed O'Malley) Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 09:03:49 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Installation question - virtual hosting, not dedicated server Message-ID: I use a web host who offers a lot of flexibility, even in the "virtual hosting" side of their services. I can run almost any cgi/perl script, schedule cron jobs, use Python etc. I believe that Mailman would work as well, however, the installation instructions describe a dedicated server environment. Is there someone who would be willing and able to help provide a "translation" to help me install this in a virtual hosting account? Thanks a lot. Ed O'Malley From barry at digicool.com Tue May 15 16:08:58 2001 From: barry at digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw) Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 10:08:58 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 2.0.5 is broken on RH70 References: Message-ID: <15105.14458.951806.110931@anthem.wooz.org> >>>>> "JM" == Joe Morris writes: JM> Anyone reading the mail here, folks? I and several other JM> people have reported problems with upgrading to Mailman 2.0.5 JM> and have things go dead. Common problem is no response to JM> email messages sent to -request aliases. JM> I have not changed my MTA, sendmail reports delivery of JM> message to the program, there are no errors, nothing to point JM> a finger at. It simply disappears into a black hole inside of JM> Mailman. JM> Would someone please take a closer look at this? If this is a JM> bad dsitribution, then please tell us and yank from the site JM> so we're not stuck scratching our heads wondering what we've JM> done wrong. I haven't got a RH7 system to experiment with, but I have heard of all kinds of other problems with RH7. IIRC, they shipped a buggy libc that was never intended to be in production. You've done some tracing of the message through the system, and you know that sendmail gets the incoming message and hands it off ot Mailman. So, is the message sitting in the qfiles directory? That might point to a problem with cron for example. Or maybe your upgrade lost your crontab entries, which are required to get qrunner to clear your queue. -Barry From barry at digicool.com Tue May 15 16:10:04 2001 From: barry at digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw) Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 10:10:04 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Nested MAIL command? References: <3B00875C.BDC680DB@pcraft.com> Message-ID: <15105.14524.472893.190245@anthem.wooz.org> >>>>> "AMK" == Ashley M Kirchner writes: AMK> Mailman suddenly started causing these errors, after AMK> nothing was changed for months: | SYSERR(root): Nested MAIL command: MAIL | From: AMK> And every time that error pops up, over half of the queue AMK> gets mysteriously lost. It's just gone. Help! Did somebody upgrade Python out from under you? Maybe a buggy smtplib.py was installed some place (not that I'm aware of a buggy smtplib.py ;). /Something's/ obviously changed! -Barry From grobin at nn.independent.co.za Tue May 15 16:19:34 2001 From: grobin at nn.independent.co.za (Rob Gould) Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 16:19:34 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Expert help please! Change Welcome Msg? Message-ID: <02fa01c0dd4a$10bcc920$6f5a58a4@nn.independent.co.za> Hello... Is there any way to change the generic technical info included in the welcome msg? I am only wanting to run an announcement list so do not need to provide the option to post messages. Thanks. Rob grobin at nn.independent.co.za From mrbill at mrbill.net Tue May 15 18:23:17 2001 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 11:23:17 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] any 2.1 status? Message-ID: <20010515112317.A27668@mrbill.net> Anybody know the status of 2.1 currently? Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill at mrbill.net Austin, TX From barry at digicool.com Tue May 15 18:34:40 2001 From: barry at digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw) Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 12:34:40 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] question about authentication References: <3B005692.F48A4AF6@cats.ucsc.edu> Message-ID: <15105.23200.604207.81982@anthem.wooz.org> >>>>> "JR" == John Rudd writes: JR> How do you authenticate that a user is who they say they are JR> when they're entering subscription requests at the web JR> interface? JR> Do you do a mailback for confirmation? (I think this would JR> actually be a minus, due to the nature of our users) Currently, yes it is a mailback confirmation, although this is somewhat configurable. The list owner can chose to do 1) mailback, 2) admin approval, 3) both. JR> Do you provide a password mechanism to avoid the mailback? If JR> so, can it interface with kerberos? No, however there has been some discussions (both off and on line) about developing an authentication API so that external mechanisms can be slotted in. I don't see this happening for Mailman 2.1 though. JR> I don't know if you're familiar with Athena, Moira, and JR> Moira's "listmaint" software, but we're looking to replace the JR> Athena mailing list software with something new, and mailman JR> sounds promising. I just need a way to authenticate JR> unsophisticated users... and we tend to use our kerberos realm JR> more as a distributed password system (that has better JR> security than NIS) than as an ultra-secure authentication JR> system. Cool. I think that if you weren't too adverse to a bit of Python hacking, you could hook Mailman into your Kerberos system. It'd be a hack for now, but hopefully that would help get some experience in what the right mechanisms should ultimately look like. -Barry From barry at digicool.com Tue May 15 18:37:55 2001 From: barry at digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw) Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 12:37:55 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Desi-os maps spamming References: Message-ID: <15105.23395.631306.402369@anthem.wooz.org> >>>>> "e" == ez writes: e> As I am sure you are aware, yesterday thousands of users were e> spammed from the following e> e-dress: e> which seems to be linked with Mailman. e> As of yet, no-one has received either an explanation or an e> apology and I believe one should be forthcoming. Please could e> you explain to me the following: e> * How did this incidence occur? e> * Where did you get all the e-dresses from? No one subscribed e> to the list or gave permission for their emails to be passed on e> to your company. e> * Is there anything we can do to stop such an incidence e> occuring again? e> * Will you be issuing an apology and a guarantee that this e> shall not occur again? e> Please remove my e-dress from any lists you may have and please e> supply where you got my edress from. Thank you for your time. You should be aware that while the Mailman software was used in this incident, neither the Mailman developers nor the Mailman user community had anything to do with it. It would be like blaming Dell because one of their computers was used to generate the original spam message, or Microsoft because Outlook was used to compose it. ;) -Barry From ashley at pcraft.com Tue May 15 18:40:52 2001 From: ashley at pcraft.com (Ashley M. Kirchner) Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 10:40:52 -0600 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Nested MAIL command? References: <3B00875C.BDC680DB@pcraft.com> <15105.14524.472893.190245@anthem.wooz.org> Message-ID: <3B015C14.D0691F5B@pcraft.com> "Barry A. Warsaw" wrote: > Did somebody upgrade Python out from under you? Maybe a buggy > smtplib.py was installed some place (not that I'm aware of a buggy > smtplib.py ;). Nope. I run the system, and I'm the only one with access to it. And I know it has not been hacked. > /Something's/ obviously changed! The system's been running, untouched, for over 3 months, no problems. It just started showing problems. However, I did a restart on the MTA, and it's working fine again. Go figure. -- W | | I haven't lost my mind; it's backed up on tape somewhere. |____________________________________________________________________ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Ashley M. Kirchner . 303.442.6410 x130 SysAdmin / Websmith . 800.441.3873 x130 Photo Craft Laboratories, Inc. . eFax 248.671.0909 http://www.pcraft.com . 3550 Arapahoe Ave #6 .................. . . . . Boulder, CO 80303, USA From Paul.Ondercin at motorola.com Tue May 15 18:56:09 2001 From: Paul.Ondercin at motorola.com (Ondercin Paul-O10322) Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 09:56:09 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Desi-os maps spamming Message-ID: ez, You have just spammed several thousand people on a mailing list devoted to the installation, debugging and use of the Mailman list server. (See http://www.list.org ). You should research your headers and go through your SMTP Relay's logs to determine exactly where the spam was sent from and take action in that direction. In light of the number of people unjustly accused, we may be the ones to expect an appology. Regards, Paul -----Original Message----- From: ez [mailto:emanzaman at hotmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2001 4:58 AM To: mailman-users at python.org Subject: [Mailman-Users] Desi-os maps spamming Dear Mailman As I am sure you are aware, yesterday thousands of users were spammed from the following e-dress:< http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/desi-os-maps> which seems to be linked with Mailman. As of yet, no-one has received either an explanation or an apology and I believe one should be forthcoming. Please could you explain to me the following: * How did this incidence occur? * Where did you get all the e-dresses from? No one subscribed to the list or gave permission for their emails to be passed on to your company. * Is there anything we can do to stop such an incidence occuring again? * Will you be issuing an apology and a guarantee that this shall not occur again? Please remove my e-dress from any lists you may have and please supply where you got my edress from. Thank you for your time. ez From satyap at satya.virtualave.net Tue May 15 19:16:15 2001 From: satyap at satya.virtualave.net (Satya) Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 22:46:15 +0530 (IST) Subject: [Mailman-Users] big lists, big messages In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On May 14, 2001 at 09:54, Rabinowitz, Ari (Exchange) wrote: >Chuq, PMJI. >Thanks for all of your good ideas in this thread. I'm new to Postfix, and >Mailman. How would I defer DNS in Postfix? I have a few lists (read only) If I understand you, put one or both of these in main.cf: defer_transports=smtp #disables smtp transport until you issue sendmail -q disable_dns_lookups = yes #I'm not sure, but apparently postfix doesn't check with DNS during #SMTP dialogs. >with about 1200 addresses that send out only a few messages a day, at most. >I have MAX_RCPT_TO set to 500 so I would expect mailman to split the lists >into 3 messages, although it ends up splitting into 4 messages, two with >about 500 recipients each, and then two smaller lists instead of just one. > >I am using Postfix as the MTA and it seems to work well, but I notice from >the logs that it seems that Postfix only gets one message at a time from >Mailman. Is this because of my Mailman settings or my Postfix settings? >What controls this? I see something that may be similar. Mailman is batching messages as I want -- 5 or 10 at a time. Postfix sends to the upstream MTA one at a time. Is this what you're seeing? -- Satya. US-bound grad students! For pre-apps, see Cap'n! Cap'n! the UART's will'nae take the speed! From barry at digicool.com Tue May 15 20:12:54 2001 From: barry at digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw) Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 14:12:54 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Nested MAIL command? References: <3B00875C.BDC680DB@pcraft.com> <15105.14524.472893.190245@anthem.wooz.org> <3B015C14.D0691F5B@pcraft.com> Message-ID: <15105.29094.671945.942228@anthem.wooz.org> >>>>> "AMK" == Ashley M Kirchner writes: >> /Something's/ obviously changed! AMK> The system's been running, untouched, for over 3 months, AMK> no problems. It just started showing problems. However, I AMK> did a restart on the MTA, and it's working fine again. Go AMK> figure. Weird! From pjschrei at undergrad.math.uwaterloo.ca Tue May 15 21:21:02 2001 From: pjschrei at undergrad.math.uwaterloo.ca (Paul Schreiber) Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 15:21:02 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] can't auth to see list archives (debian, fix included) Message-ID: <20010515192125.SMPW26718.femail24.sdc1.sfba.home.com@[192.168.0.189]> config: * I am using debian linux ("testing") * I am using python 1.5.2 (though 2.0 is installed) * I just updated to mailman 2.0.4 (was using 2.0.3) through debian's apt-get the problem occurs in all the browsers i tried: * netscape/win * IE 5.5/win * IE 5/mac I can't auth to see the list archives in Mailman. Here's what happens: [1] go to the list home page http://foo.ca/mailman/listinfo/family [2] click on "archives" http://foo.ca/cgi-bin/mailman/private/family/ ^^^ why does the cgi-bin get added? ^^^ [3] enter userid and password -->see "thread/date/author/subject table" http://foo.ca/cgi-bin/mailman/private/family/ [4] click on "by thread" URL changes to: http://foo.ca/cgi-bin/mailman/private/family/2001-May/thread.html but I am prompted for my password/userid again steps [3] and [4] loop infintely. If I maunally change the URL to http://foo.ca/mailman/private/family/2001-May/thread.html then it works fine. argh! [is this a debian packaging bug?] In /etc/mailman/mm_cfg.py, I have: PRIVATE_ARCHIVE_URL = '/cgi-bin/mailman/private' removing "cgi-bin" fixes it. Paul shad 96c / 4B CS / mac activist / eda / fumbler fan of / jewel / sophie b. / sarah slean / steve poltz / emm gryner / / x-files / buffy / dawson's creek / habs / bills / 49ers / t h i n k d i f f e r e n t. "Indeed, it would not be an exaggeration to describe the history of the computer industry for the past decade as a massive effort to keep up with Apple." -- Byte, December 1994 From eco at seaoasis.com Tue May 15 21:59:55 2001 From: eco at seaoasis.com (Ed O'Malley) Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 15:59:55 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Installation question - virtual hosting, not dedicated server Message-ID: I use a web host who offers a lot of flexibility, even in the "virtual hosting" side of their services. I can run almost any cgi/perl script, schedule cron jobs, use Python etc. I believe that Mailman would work as well, however, the installation instructions describe a dedicated server environment. Is there someone who would be willing and able to help provide a "translation" to help me install this in a virtual hosting account? Thanks a lot. Ed O'Malley From cmutchie at bellsouth.net Tue May 15 22:13:01 2001 From: cmutchie at bellsouth.net (Cindy) Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 15:13:01 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] New to list Message-ID: <016f01c0dd7b$71678720$0400a8c0@cindy1> Hello, I have subscribed to this list to see if I could get some questions answered. If anyone has any ideas about these, I would be very appreciative to receive them. 1. Is it possible to run Mailman from a rented server space when you do not have telnet access but only FTP? The server space I rent does offer both Perl5 and Python running on Redhat, and access to cgi-bin with my own bin for running my own scripts. 2. Does Mailman have to be installed system wide and be administered by the system admin? I am trying to get a set up where I can create and delete email discussion groups at my choosing. The archives need to be searchable and accessible to both admin and subscribers, but not available to those who are not subscribed. Thank you! Cindy -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20010515/de6d44c6/attachment.htm From marcel at loesberg.com Tue May 15 23:09:37 2001 From: marcel at loesberg.com (Marcel Loesberg) Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 23:09:37 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman problem? (Fw: Returned mail: unknown mailer error 126) Message-ID: <000801c0dd83$595d12a0$6401a8c0@obi-wan.nl.loesberg.com> Hi, Below is a returned mail I got when I tried to subscribe to my own Mailman "test" list. I use Mailman 2.0.4 on a RedHat 6.2 system with Sendmail 8.9.3 In /etc/aliases I have: test-request: |/home/mailman/mail/wrapper mailcmd test Any ideas where it goes wrong? Regards, Marcel -----Original Message----- From: Mail Delivery Subsystem To: mhll at dds.nl Date: Tuesday, May 15, 2001 8:38 PM Subject: Returned mail: unknown mailer error 126 The original message was received at Tue, 15 May 2001 18:41:27 -100 from mbox-01.soneraplaza.nl [195.66.15.137] ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors ----- |/home/mailman/mail/wrapper mailcmd test (expanded from: ) ----- Transcript of session follows ----- sh: /home/mailman/mail/wrapper.mailcmd.test: No such file or directory 554 |/home/mailman/mail/wrapper mailcmd test... unknown mailer error 126 From soros_gergo at yahoo.com Wed May 16 00:10:20 2001 From: soros_gergo at yahoo.com (Gergo Soros) Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 00:10:20 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman problem? (Fw: Returned mail: unknown mailer error 126) References: <000801c0dd83$595d12a0$6401a8c0@obi-wan.nl.loesberg.com> Message-ID: <016c01c0dd8b$d817b980$01000001@sgergo.hu> > In /etc/aliases I have: > > test-request: |/home/mailman/mail/wrapper mailcmd test Try quoting the command: test-request: " |/home/mailman/mail/wrapper mailcmd test" Gergo _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From maillist at blitzen.net Wed May 16 00:17:54 2001 From: maillist at blitzen.net (Steve Lee) Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 15:17:54 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Mailman-Users] unsubscribe from a list w/out password Message-ID: Is it possible to setup mailman so users can unsubscribe from a list without having to put the password in on the subject line ? i tried all different possible settings and no results. From lennu at tietoverkot.net Wed May 16 00:38:59 2001 From: lennu at tietoverkot.net (Len Merikanto) Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 01:38:59 +0300 (EEST) Subject: [Mailman-Users] Administrative requests acting odd. In-Reply-To: <000801c0dd83$595d12a0$6401a8c0@obi-wan.nl.loesberg.com> Message-ID: Long way to go. Finally getting this Freebsd to solaris8 porting done and almost everything works as in old system except when i goto administrative requests i get following text: in begin of page: Message with id #7 was lost. in bottom of page: Bug in Mailman version 2.0.4 We're sorry, we hit a bug! Please inform the webmaster for this site of this problem. Printing of traceback and other system information has been explicitly inhibited, but the webmaster can find this information in the Mailman error logs. Is there a way of tracking this bug? logfiles on mailman is real pain as many logfiles and most of them show no useful info on whatso ever. Also i ran into a small problem, someone posted a nice virus on a posting list with about 20 thousand people and i got things bit hot here and had to shutdown the list. is there a way i can make sure and check a dbconfig that i can be sure that mail is not accpeted from anyone except through admin inspection and only few whatever email addresses can send emails without having them go through admin inspection? Hope noone else runs into this problem. enuff pain to get police the logs from smtp who and when and from where was the virus sent from. Len Merikanto, Phone: +358968691950 Tietoverkot Oy Mobile: +358409008494 Munkkisaarenkatu 2 Fax: +358968691935 00150 Helsinki, Finland From pjschrei at undergrad.math.uwaterloo.ca Wed May 16 02:17:06 2001 From: pjschrei at undergrad.math.uwaterloo.ca (Paul Schreiber) Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 20:17:06 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] demime/stripmime Message-ID: <200105160016.f4G0GhX6023715@notquitesonic.worldfactors.com> is anyone here using demime/stripmime? I have mailman 2.0.4 and sendmail 8.11.x. what works well and what doesn't, and is there a way to set it up w/o modifying all of /etc/aliases? Paul shad 96c / 4B CS / mac activist / eda / fumbler fan of / jewel / sophie b. / sarah slean / steve poltz / emm gryner / / x-files / buffy / dawson's creek / habs / bills / 49ers / t h i n k d i f f e r e n t. "Indeed, it would not be an exaggeration to describe the history of the computer industry for the past decade as a massive effort to keep up with Apple." -- Byte, December 1994 From alex at phred.org Wed May 16 03:09:16 2001 From: alex at phred.org (alex wetmore) Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 18:09:16 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Mailman-Users] demime/stripmime In-Reply-To: <200105160016.f4G0GhX6023715@notquitesonic.worldfactors.com> Message-ID: <20010515180759.Y38850-100000@phred.org> On Tue, 15 May 2001, Paul Schreiber wrote: > is anyone here using demime/stripmime? I have mailman 2.0.4 and sendmail > 8.11.x. I'm using stripmime (not surprising since I wrote it). I've used it with sendmail 8.9, but now use it with postfix. > what works well and what doesn't, and is there a way to set it up w/o > modifying all of /etc/aliases? I have no experience with demime, but stripmime works well for me. I don't know of a way to install it without modifying /etc/aliases. That modification only takes a couple of minutes. There are patches in the CVS tree for mailman to do the same thing as stripmime and demime. I'm not sure when these will be available in a general release. alex From josh at ernestallen.com Wed May 16 04:54:09 2001 From: josh at ernestallen.com (Joshua Erdman) Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 19:54:09 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] What does this error mean? Message-ID: <004901c0ddb3$7b85e1b0$02930440@tron> May 15 19:55:04 2001 (26051) smtp for 1 recips, completed in 0.053 seconds May 15 19:55:05 2001 (26051) All recipients refused: host not found "host not found" at the end of the second line. Is that referring to my mail server? Joshua Erdman Ernest & Allen, Inc. CIO/Network Systems Administrator Tel (805) 781-0317 Fax (805) 781-0725 josh at ernestallen.com From arif at welfarelaw.org Wed May 16 05:13:40 2001 From: arif at welfarelaw.org (Arif Mamdani) Date: 15 May 2001 23:13:40 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Something strange with list-admin Message-ID: <989982820.1042.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> I'm hoping someone can help me out here. I've got a list running, seems to be running fine in that people can post to the list without problems (well, HTML mail causes issues, but that's not a list issue), web interface is running splendidly and all that, but, something strange is going on with the -admin alias. My setup involves Redhat 7.0., sendmail, and Mailman 2.0.1. The strange thing that I'm seeing is that fetchmail downloads mail for the list-admin address, and hands it off to the mailman address/alias, which then seems to go nowhere. Here's what the maillog shows: May 15 18:15:15 localhost fetchmail[8189]: 1 message for list at mail.ahnet.net (2535 octets). May 15 18:15:18 localhost fetchmail[8189]: reading message 1 of 1 (2535 octets) May 15 18:15:19 localhost sendmail[8202]: f4FMFIj08202: from=, size=2531, class=-60, nrcpts=1, msgid=<200105152213.f4FMD1j08178 at localhost.localdomain>, proto=ESMTP, daemon=MTA, relay=IDENT:root at localhost.localdomain [216.233.22.3] May 15 18:15:19 localhost fetchmail[8189]: flushed May 15 18:15:20 localhost sendmail[8203]: f4FMFIj08202: to="|/var/mailman/mail/wrapper post list", ctladdr= (8/0), delay=00:00:01, xdelay=00:00:01, mailer=prog, pri=138417, dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent and that's the end of that. The message, or at least what appears to be a message just disappears, it doesn't go to the list as the hand off to the wrapper seems to indicate, it doesn't get sent to list admins for moderation, and it appears no where in queues or anything like that. If anyone has any ideas on what' happening, I'd really appreciate it. thanks, -arif From iwhite at victoria.tc.ca Wed May 16 05:11:14 2001 From: iwhite at victoria.tc.ca (Ian White) Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 20:11:14 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Mailman-Users] What does this error mean? In-Reply-To: <004901c0ddb3$7b85e1b0$02930440@tron> Message-ID: On Tue, 15 May 2001, Joshua Erdman wrote: > May 15 19:55:04 2001 (26051) smtp for 1 recips, completed in 0.053 seconds > May 15 19:55:05 2001 (26051) All recipients refused: host not found > > "host not found" at the end of the second line. Is that referring to my > mail server? Yep, have a look at Mailman/Defaults.py and Mailman/mm_cfg.py and look for the lines that look like: # SMTP host and port, when DELIVERY_MODULE is 'SMTPDirect' SMTPHOST = 'localhost' SMTPPORT = 0 # default from smtplib Make sure that the SMTPHOST listed there exists. If not, redefine it in your mm_cfg.py Ian ------------------------------------------- Ian White email: iwhite at victoria.tc.ca From josh at ernestallen.com Wed May 16 05:49:53 2001 From: josh at ernestallen.com (Joshua Erdman) Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 20:49:53 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] What does this error mean? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <004b01c0ddbb$44a43950$02930440@tron> OK, that seemed to work. As soon as I checked my /etc/hosts file I noticed my localhost entry missing. Now the only thing left for me to do is figure how that happened.... Joshua Erdman Ernest & Allen, Inc. CIO/Network Systems Administrator Tel (805) 781-0317 Fax (805) 781-0725 josh at ernestallen.com -----Original Message----- From: Ian White [mailto:iwhite at victoria.tc.ca] Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2001 8:11 PM To: Joshua Erdman Cc: mailman-users at python.org Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] What does this error mean? On Tue, 15 May 2001, Joshua Erdman wrote: > May 15 19:55:04 2001 (26051) smtp for 1 recips, completed in 0.053 seconds > May 15 19:55:05 2001 (26051) All recipients refused: host not found > > "host not found" at the end of the second line. Is that referring to my > mail server? Yep, have a look at Mailman/Defaults.py and Mailman/mm_cfg.py and look for the lines that look like: # SMTP host and port, when DELIVERY_MODULE is 'SMTPDirect' SMTPHOST = 'localhost' SMTPPORT = 0 # default from smtplib Make sure that the SMTPHOST listed there exists. If not, redefine it in your mm_cfg.py Ian ------------------------------------------- Ian White email: iwhite at victoria.tc.ca From barry at digicool.com Wed May 16 05:53:36 2001 From: barry at digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw) Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 23:53:36 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] any 2.1 status? References: <20010515112317.A27668@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <15105.63936.399524.579507@anthem.wooz.org> >>>>> "BB" == Bill Bradford writes: BB> Anybody know the status of 2.1 currently? Work is ongoing, and I'd like to schedule a second alpha Real Soon Now. Internationalization is fairly mature I believe, although I still need to integrate the catalogs into the CVS tree. See also this page http://www.zope.org/Members/bwarsaw/MailmanDesignNotes/MailmanTwoDotOne for the list of features I'd like to try to get into 2.1 (and `Done' mark for what's completed). I already know there will be some things on that list that won't make it, and a few not on that list that will. I'll try to update it at some point. Personally, I have not tried to use 2.1 for any real lists yet, so I can't speak to its stability. Once it goes to beta, then I'll probably start running some tests lists on it. -Barry From barry at digicool.com Wed May 16 05:57:51 2001 From: barry at digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw) Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 23:57:51 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] can't auth to see list archives (debian, fix included) References: <20010515192125.SMPW26718.femail24.sdc1.sfba.home.com@[192.168.0.189]> Message-ID: <15105.64191.314815.634813@anthem.wooz.org> >>>>> "PS" == Paul Schreiber writes: | If I maunally change the URL to | http://foo.ca/mailman/private/family/2001-May/thread.html PS> then it works fine. argh! [is this a debian packaging bug?] It well may be... | In /etc/mailman/mm_cfg.py, I have: | PRIVATE_ARCHIVE_URL = '/cgi-bin/mailman/private' PS> removing "cgi-bin" fixes it. That's why you're getting the cgi-bin in your urls. ;) The default PRIVATE_ARCHIVE_URL in the source distro is just `/mailman/private'. I actually think we can get rid of this variable for Mailman 2.1 and calculate it on the fly. -Barry From dairiki at dairiki.org Wed May 16 06:09:18 2001 From: dairiki at dairiki.org (Jeff Dairiki) Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 21:09:18 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] demime/stripmime In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 15 May 2001 18:09:16 PDT." <20010515180759.Y38850-100000@phred.org> Message-ID: <200105160409.f4G49If25327@matthews.dairiki.org> >There are patches in the CVS tree for mailman to do the same thing >as stripmime and demime. I'm not sure when these will be available >in a general release. There are patches, not in the CVS tree, but on the SourceForge mailman page. See: http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=413752&group_id=103& atid=300103 (Or look for the patch entitled "Coerce posts to plain text."). Jeff From bakyh at etri.re.kr Wed May 16 08:38:26 2001 From: bakyh at etri.re.kr (bakyh at etri.re.kr) Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 15:38:26 +0900 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Hello~ Message-ID: <766FA1FC5C2AD511B3C800D0B7A8AC4A1BFD10@cms3.etri.re.kr> i'm a korean. i installed mailman and tested successfully. all other's thing is normally operated, but the character in web is strange. i sent message in korean, and received it successfully, but in web, i can't read it. how can i solve this problem? should i patch about korean(hangul) character? thanks in advance. Bak, yuhyeon. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20010516/4d45a75b/attachment.html From bakyh at etri.re.kr Wed May 16 09:27:15 2001 From: bakyh at etri.re.kr (bakyh at etri.re.kr) Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 16:27:15 +0900 Subject: [Mailman-Users] problem in web using mailman Message-ID: <766FA1FC5C2AD511B3C800D0B7A8AC4A1BFD12@cms3.etri.re.kr> if you have this msg in advance, i feel so sorry. the front message had some problem since using HTML format, so, i send again it. ----------- i'm a korean. i installed mailman and tested successfully. all other's thing is normally operated, but the character in web is strange. i sent message in korean, and received it successfully, but in web, i can't read it. how can i solve this problem? should i patch about korean(hangul) character? thanks in advance. Bak, yuhyeon. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20010516/033146f9/attachment.htm From soros_gergo at yahoo.com Wed May 16 12:11:23 2001 From: soros_gergo at yahoo.com (Gergo Soros) Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 12:11:23 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman problem? (Fw: Returned mail: unknown mailer error 126) References: <000801c0dd83$595d12a0$6401a8c0@obi-wan.nl.loesberg.com> <016c01c0dd8b$d817b980$01000001@sgergo.hu> <01051609481901.08322@white> Message-ID: <002e01c0ddf0$9aad1da0$01000001@sgergo.hu> > ----- Transcript of session follows ----- > Failure to exec script. WANTED gid 12, GOT gid 2. (Reconfigure to take 2?) > 554 "|/home/mailman/mail/wrapper mailcmd test"... unknown mailer error 2 > > Do I need to chgrp wrapper? No, you need to reconfigure to take mail-gid 2: $ configure --with-mail-gid=2 .... $ make install Gergo _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From maddler at maddler.net Wed May 16 14:37:58 2001 From: maddler at maddler.net (William Maddler) Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 12:37:58 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Mailman-Users] Segmentation Fault Message-ID: Hi all... I've just installed Mailman 2.0.5 but looks like smtg went wrong... every time I try to launch a Mailman command I get a SegFault... i did ./configure --with-python= --with-python=/usr/local/bin/python make make install I have Python 2.1 installed on a Slack 7.1 box with kernel 2.2.19... any clue? thx... -- ::::.~.::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: :: /V\ PENGUIN WILLIAM::MADDLER :: :: /(_)\ POWER http://www.maddler.net :: :: ^ ^ & neuromante.it ecn.org pollodigomma.org :: ::::::::::::Message released under the GNU/GPL license:::::::::::: From barry at digicool.com Wed May 16 15:47:51 2001 From: barry at digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw) Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 09:47:51 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] can't auth to see list archives (debian, fix included) References: <20010515192125.SMPW26718.femail24.sdc1.sfba.home.com@[192.168.0.189]> <15105.64191.314815.634813@anthem.wooz.org> <87ae4dwmep.fsf@arabella.intern.opera.no> Message-ID: <15106.34055.345699.598785@anthem.wooz.org> >>>>> "TFH" == Tollef Fog Heen writes: TFH> (I am the Debian package maintainer for Mailman) TFH> It isn't. The Debian package is set up to use TFH> http://foo/cgi-bin/mailman as the base URL. If you change TFH> that, you'll need to change the information in mm_cfg.py as TFH> well. TFH> It works ok with the config out-of-the-box. Okay. TFH> | That's why you're getting the cgi-bin in your urls. ;) The TFH> default | PRIVATE_ARCHIVE_URL in the source distro is just TFH> `/mailman/private'. | I actually think we can get rid of TFH> this variable for Mailman 2.1 and | calculate it on the fly. TFH> Sounds nice. I checked these changes into CVS last night. Not too hard, and it avoids a useless headache when changing the defaults. -Barry From pjschrei at undergrad.math.uwaterloo.ca Wed May 16 16:16:31 2001 From: pjschrei at undergrad.math.uwaterloo.ca (Paul Schreiber) Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 10:16:31 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] can't auth to see list archives (debian, fix included) Message-ID: <20010516141636.XJEQ26718.femail24.sdc1.sfba.home.com@[192.168.0.189]> Tollef Fog Heen wrote: >(I am the Debian package maintainer for Mailman) > >| >>>>> "PS" == Paul Schreiber writes: >| >| | If I maunally change the URL to >| | http://foo.ca/mailman/private/family/2001-May/thread.html >| >| PS> then it works fine. argh! [is this a debian packaging bug?] >| >| It well may be... > >It isn't. The Debian package is set up to use >http://foo/cgi-bin/mailman as the base URL. If you change that, >you'll need to change the information in mm_cfg.py as well. Hmmm, for some reason I thought it wasn't in 2.0.1/2.0.3 -- I only noticed this problem in 2.0.4. Maybe some new bug creeped in that just confused the issue. Paul shad 96c / 4B CS / mac activist / eda / fumbler fan of / jewel / sophie b. / sarah slean / steve poltz / emm gryner / / x-files / buffy / dawson's creek / habs / bills / 49ers / t h i n k d i f f e r e n t. "Pessimism prevails, we are incapable of understanding the complexity around us, so we must simply attempt to fake our way through it and appear to look intelligent." -- SDT From Doctor at West.Pair.Com Wed May 16 17:21:01 2001 From: Doctor at West.Pair.Com (The Doctor) Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 08:21:01 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: Read only list? References: <16.cc826b4.28316f51@aol.com> Message-ID: I had that question myself... My solution - make the list require approval for all postings and then add those allowed to post to the list not needing approval. Then I manually removed all references I could to posting to the list via editing the info. web page. ----- Original Message ----- From: OmrPrt at aol.com To: mailman-users at python.org Sent: Monday, May 14, 2001 10:26 AM Subject: Read only list? how do I make a list read only? Omar -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20010516/7572b594/attachment.html From adam at baz.org Wed May 16 17:56:40 2001 From: adam at baz.org (Adam Hirsch) Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 11:56:40 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] moving list configs Message-ID: <20010516115640.B28089@baz.org> Hey, folks -- I'd have thought this might be an FAQ by now, but I didn't see it mentioned anywhere likely. Has anyone written up what it takes to move an entire mailman setup from one machine to another, wholesale? Is it just a matter of moving over the relevant directories under ~mailman/ (logs, lists, and data, I'd presume), or is there a better way of doing it? Adam -- adam hirsch http://web.baz.org/~adam/ able baker quaker biker adam at baz.org From bob at nleaudio.com Wed May 16 18:30:47 2001 From: bob at nleaudio.com (Bob Puff@NLE) Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 12:30:47 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] "sender domain must resolve" errors References: Message-ID: <3B02AB37.A5125C35@nleaudio.com> Hello, I've noticed that I'm seeing a lot of "Sender domain must resolve" messages in my Postfix logs, most of which are from messages sent thru Mailman. I know this isn't specifically a mailman issue, as the errors are coming from the other SMTP servers, but perhaps someone here can help shed light on this. Here's some of the errors from my log: 5 host smtp1.cei.net[204.117.117.29] said: 451 4.1.8 ... Sender domain must resolve 5 host edify-ministries.org[209.190.211.167] said: 451 ... Sender domain must resolve 5 host mail.hiwaay.net[208.147.154.56] said: 451 4.1.8 ... Domain of sender address apostles-today-admin at apostles-today.net does not resolve 5 host mail.odyssey.on.ca[209.213.224.2] said: 451 4.1.8 ... Domain of sender address apostles-today-admin at apostles-today.net does not resolve Note that apostles-today.net resolves nicely to an IP address. This is a virtual host on a shared IP, so a reverse IP lookup obviously isn't going to show the 50 or so addresses on that IP. Is there something else I'm missing? Bob From chuqui at plaidworks.com Wed May 16 19:02:34 2001 From: chuqui at plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach) Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 10:02:34 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] "sender domain must resolve" errors In-Reply-To: <3B02AB37.A5125C35@nleaudio.com> Message-ID: On 5/16/01 9:30 AM, "Bob Puff at NLE" wrote: > I've noticed that I'm seeing a lot of "Sender domain must resolve" messages > in my Postfix logs, most of which are from messages sent thru Mailman. I know > this isn't specifically a mailman issue, as the errors are coming from the > other SMTP servers, but perhaps someone here can help shed light on this. It's a disturbance in the DNS. It's possible your DNS server was temporarily flakey, but when I see that, it's more normally a networking issue of some sort. And it's not necessarily the network between them (trying to look you up) and your DNS (trying to answer) -- I've seen it when a router between a chunk of net and the root DNS servers goes flakey or overloads, so they can't resolve you out of the root. From marc_news at valinux.com Tue May 15 22:16:08 2001 From: marc_news at valinux.com (Marc MERLIN) Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 13:16:08 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Desi-os maps spamming In-Reply-To: ; from emanzaman@hotmail.com on Tue, May 15, 2001 at 12:58:16PM +0100 References: Message-ID: <20010515131608.D1487@magic.merlins.org> On Tue, May 15, 2001 at 12:58:16PM +0100, ez wrote: > Dear Mailman > > As I am sure you are aware, yesterday > thousands of users were spammed from the following > e-dress: which > seems to be linked with Mailman. You asked at the wrong place, but the answer is here: http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=423910&group_id=1&atid=200001 Marc -- Microsoft is to operating systems & security .... .... what McDonalds is to gourmet cooking Home page: http://marc.merlins.org/ | Finger marc_f at merlins.org for PGP key From mhll at dds.nl Tue May 15 22:51:00 2001 From: mhll at dds.nl (Marcel Loesberg) Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 22:51:00 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman problem? (Fw: Returned mail: unknown mailer error 126) Message-ID: <00d501c0dd80$bfa221c0$6401a8c0@obi-wan.nl.loesberg.com> Hi, Below is a returned mail I got when I tried to subscribe to my own Mailman "test" list. I use Mailman 2.0.4 on a RedHat 6.2 system with Sendmail 8.9.3 In /etc/aliases I have: test-request: |/home/mailman/mail/wrapper mailcmd test Any ideas where it goes wrong? Regards, Marcel -----Original Message----- From: Mail Delivery Subsystem To: mhll at dds.nl Date: Tuesday, May 15, 2001 8:38 PM Subject: Returned mail: unknown mailer error 126 >The original message was received at Tue, 15 May 2001 18:41:27 -0100 >from mbox-01.soneraplaza.nl [195.66.15.137] > > ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors ----- >|/home/mailman/mail/wrapper mailcmd test > (expanded from: ) > > ----- Transcript of session follows ----- >sh: /home/mailman/mail/wrapper.mailcmd.test: No such file or directory >554 |/home/mailman/mail/wrapper mailcmd test... unknown mailer error 126 > From emanzaman at hotmail.com Wed May 16 01:17:58 2001 From: emanzaman at hotmail.com (Eman Zaman) Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 00:17:58 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Desi-os maps spamming Message-ID: Dear Paul and all Mailman users I would like to express my sincere apologies for spamming all of you, I had no idea that my e-mail would be sent to thousands of users. Please accept my apology for the initial mail and for this second one. Understand that over 4000 e-mail users were spammed with over 160 e-mails EACH on Monday and no-one has any idea how it happened and I thought the Mailman was responsible as it was used to send the mails. Anyway, good luck with whatever the Mailman project is and my sincerest apologies once again. Regards ez PS Is there any possibility that Mailman may have been the cause of this? ========================================================= From: "Ondercin Paul-O10322" To: "ez" , Subject: RE: [Mailman-Users] Desi-os maps spamming Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 09:56:09 -0700 ez, You have just spammed several thousand people on a mailing list devoted to the installation, debugging and use of the Mailman list server. (See http://www.list.org ). You should research your headers and go through your SMTP Relay's logs to determine exactly where the spam was sent from and take action in that direction. In light of the number of people unjustly accused, we may be the ones to expect an appology. Regards, Paul -----Original Message----- From: ez [mailto:emanzaman at hotmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2001 4:58 AM To: mailman-users at python.org Subject: [Mailman-Users] Desi-os maps spamming Dear Mailman As I am sure you are aware, yesterday thousands of users were spammed from the following e-dress:< http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/desi-os-maps> which seems to be linked with Mailman. As of yet, no-one has received either an explanation or an apology and I believe one should be forthcoming. Please could you explain to me the following: * How did this incidence occur? * Where did you get all the e-dresses from? No one subscribed to the list or gave permission for their emails to be passed on to your company. * Is there anything we can do to stop such an incidence occuring again? * Will you be issuing an apology and a guarantee that this shall not occur again? Please remove my e-dress from any lists you may have and please supply where you got my edress from. Thank you for your time. ez _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. From jason at dstc.edu.au Wed May 16 03:19:43 2001 From: jason at dstc.edu.au (jason andrade) Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 11:19:43 +1000 (EST) Subject: [Mailman-Users] mirroring www.list.org in australia Message-ID: Hi, I'm interested in providing a mirror of www.list.org (and specifically the mailman distribution) here at our opensource archive in Australia. I'm the same person who's mirroring python locally, so i suspect i might be talking to (some of) the same people who look after the python site ? :-) Can you please let me know if this is possible.. regards, -jason From bakyh at etri.re.kr Wed May 16 08:26:55 2001 From: bakyh at etri.re.kr (bakyh at etri.re.kr) Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 15:26:55 +0900 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Hello~ Message-ID: <766FA1FC5C2AD511B3C800D0B7A8AC4A1BFD0E@cms3.etri.re.kr> i'm a korean. i installed mailman and tested successfully. all other's thing is normally operated, but the character in web is strange. i sent message in korean, and received it successfully, but in web, i can't read it. how can i solve this problem? should i patch about korean(hangul) character? thanks in advance. Bak, yuhyeon. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20010516/c220bef3/attachment.htm From tollef at add.no Wed May 16 13:42:06 2001 From: tollef at add.no (Tollef Fog Heen) Date: 16 May 2001 13:42:06 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] can't auth to see list archives (debian, fix included) In-Reply-To: <15105.64191.314815.634813@anthem.wooz.org> References: <20010515192125.SMPW26718.femail24.sdc1.sfba.home.com@[192.168.0.189]> <15105.64191.314815.634813@anthem.wooz.org> Message-ID: <87ae4dwmep.fsf@arabella.intern.opera.no> * (Barry A. Warsaw) (I am the Debian package maintainer for Mailman) | >>>>> "PS" == Paul Schreiber writes: | | | If I maunally change the URL to | | http://foo.ca/mailman/private/family/2001-May/thread.html | | PS> then it works fine. argh! [is this a debian packaging bug?] | | It well may be... It isn't. The Debian package is set up to use http://foo/cgi-bin/mailman as the base URL. If you change that, you'll need to change the information in mm_cfg.py as well. It works ok with the config out-of-the-box. | That's why you're getting the cgi-bin in your urls. ;) The default | PRIVATE_ARCHIVE_URL in the source distro is just `/mailman/private'. | I actually think we can get rid of this variable for Mailman 2.1 and | calculate it on the fly. Sounds nice. -- Tollef Fog Heen Unix _IS_ user friendly... It's just selective about who its friends are. From ashley at pcraft.com Wed May 16 23:25:01 2001 From: ashley at pcraft.com (Ashley M. Kirchner) Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 15:25:01 -0600 Subject: [Mailman-Users] List Stats Message-ID: <3B02F02C.F97D7816@pcraft.com> Has anyone come up with a way to count the amount of incoming/outgoing msgs on a per-list basis? I have several lists hosted under a domain, and I'd like to be able to tell each administrator how many messages they've received and sent out. Looking at the logs, it applies to the whole domain, not each list. The same applies if I were to look at the MTA's 'mailstats' command. -- W | | I haven't lost my mind; it's backed up on tape somewhere. |____________________________________________________________________ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Ashley M. Kirchner . 303.442.6410 x130 SysAdmin / Websmith . 800.441.3873 x130 Photo Craft Laboratories, Inc. . eFax 248.671.0909 http://www.pcraft.com . 3550 Arapahoe Ave #6 .................. . . . . Boulder, CO 80303, USA From alex at phred.org Wed May 16 23:33:48 2001 From: alex at phred.org (alex wetmore) Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 14:33:48 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Mailman-Users] List Stats In-Reply-To: <3B02F02C.F97D7816@pcraft.com> Message-ID: <20010516143130.L47188-100000@phred.org> On Wed, 16 May 2001, Ashley M. Kirchner wrote: > Has anyone come up with a way to count the amount of > incoming/outgoing msgs on a per-list basis? I have several lists hosted > under a domain, and I'd like to be able to tell each administrator how > many messages they've received and sent out. Looking at the logs, it > applies to the whole domain, not each list. The same applies if I were > to look at the MTA's 'mailstats' command. You can easily grep the logs for a specific list. Some examples: [phred:p5] ~mailman/logs % grep "^May 10.*post to touring" post | wc -l 89 [phred:p5] ~mailman/logs % grep "^May 10.*post to internet-bob" post | wc -l 35 [phred:p5] ~mailman/logs % grep "^May 10.*post to framebuilders" post | wc -l 6 alex From geert at arago.utwente.nl Thu May 17 01:56:23 2001 From: geert at arago.utwente.nl (Geert Altena) Date: Thu, 17 May 2001 01:56:23 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman problem? (Fw: Returned mail: unknown mailer error 126) In-Reply-To: <00d501c0dd80$bfa221c0$6401a8c0@obi-wan.nl.loesberg.com>; from mhll@dds.nl on Tue, May 15, 2001 at 10:51:00PM +0200 References: <00d501c0dd80$bfa221c0$6401a8c0@obi-wan.nl.loesberg.com> Message-ID: <20010517015623.A2292@uttnarag.tn.utwente.nl> Quoting Marcel Loesberg, : > Below is a returned mail I got when I tried to subscribe to > my own Mailman "test" list. > I use Mailman 2.0.4 on a RedHat 6.2 system with Sendmail 8.9.3 > In /etc/aliases I have: > > test-request: |/home/mailman/mail/wrapper mailcmd test > > Any ideas where it goes wrong? try test-request: "|/home/mailman/mail/wrapper mailcmd test" It might be that the Sendmail 'newaliases' is rather picky. IIRC the '/path/to/mailman/bin/newlist ' gives the aliases with the double-quotes included... > > ----- Transcript of session follows ----- > >sh: /home/mailman/mail/wrapper.mailcmd.test: No such file or directory > >554 |/home/mailman/mail/wrapper mailcmd test... unknown mailer error 126 HTH, \Geert. -- Geert Altena | Geert at arago.utwente.nl | Coffee, black, no sugar Finger for PGPkey : Diffie-Hellman 2048/0xC540C550 Prediction is difficult, especially of the future. - Niels Bohr From rbp at netcanvas.com Thu May 17 04:30:14 2001 From: rbp at netcanvas.com (Rodrigo Borges Pereira) Date: Thu, 17 May 2001 03:30:14 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Admin web interface Message-ID: Hi! I'd like to know if Mailman has in it's web interface the ability for the site administrator to create/remove lists. As far i as i know, it can only be done using the command line. If there's a good reason as for that not beeing implemented on the web interface, let me know about it. From wheakory at isu.edu Thu May 17 07:01:25 2001 From: wheakory at isu.edu (Kory Wheatley) Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 23:01:25 -0600 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman error Bad Marshal Message-ID: <3B035B25.21C076A5@isu.edu> Received this for a hour and then it went away everything worked after that, but is there any solution to this problem. ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors ----- "|/home/mailman/mail/wrapper mailowner ccaussec" (expanded from: ccaussec-admin) ----- Transcript of session follows ----- Traceback (innermost last): File "/home/mailman/scripts/mailowner", line 33, in ? from Mailman import MailList ValueError: bad marshal data 554 "|/home/mailman/mail/wrapper mailowner ccaussec"... unknown mailer error 1 From maillist at blitzen.net Thu May 17 07:33:47 2001 From: maillist at blitzen.net (Steve Lee) Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 22:33:47 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Mailman-Users] unsubscribe from a list w/out password In-Reply-To: <27163-3B01AC3E-1003@storefull-171.iap.bryant.webtv.net> Message-ID: Please help. if i can't get this to work i would have to goto majordomo. I really don't have the time to set that up right now. I just need to be able to set the list so people can unsubscribe from the list without having to do this through the web interface but by email with just unsubscribe from the subject line. Please anyone. What option do i need to set. On Tue, 15 May 2001, Lynn Kupper wrote: > Unsubscribe > From Nigel.Metheringham at InTechnology.co.uk Thu May 17 12:05:14 2001 From: Nigel.Metheringham at InTechnology.co.uk (Nigel Metheringham) Date: Thu, 17 May 2001 11:05:14 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Admin web interface In-Reply-To: Message from "Rodrigo Borges Pereira" of "Thu, 17 May 2001 03:30:14 BST." Message-ID: rbp at netcanvas.com said: > As far i as i know, it can only be done using the command line. If > there's a good reason as for that not beeing implemented on the web > interface, let me know about it. This is currently under development. It is a harder problem than might at first appear since Mailman needs to interact with the system MTA to inform it that additional list post/admin delivery addresses now exist. The MTA is a privileged subsystem and cannot be tampered with lightly. Nigel. -- [ Nigel Metheringham Nigel.Metheringham at InTechnology.co.uk ] [ Phone: +44 1423 850000 Fax +44 1423 858866 ] [ - Comments in this message are my own and not ITO opinion/policy - ] From listmgr at perilpoint.com Thu May 17 14:58:13 2001 From: listmgr at perilpoint.com (List Manager) Date: Thu, 17 May 2001 07:58:13 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] demolist Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20010517075019.06cd6100@perilpoint.com> Hello everyone, I have setup a 'demolist' and I need to disable the list admin address and the password from being changed. From what I can see, I would need to make these changes on the General Options page and the details page for the general/owner. But I cannot find those pages in the distribution for the list. Has anyone else setup a demolist? Can anyone point out which files I need to make these changes to? TIA Rae From listmgr at perilpoint.com Thu May 17 15:04:49 2001 From: listmgr at perilpoint.com (List Manager) Date: Thu, 17 May 2001 08:04:49 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman limits, commands Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20010517075819.00cb0500@perilpoint.com> Hello everyone, We have been running Majordomo and we are in the process of offering Mailman as an alternative to our customers who want to change their lists over to a web-based mailing list manager. I have a couple questions that I am hoping you can help me with. 1. Does Mailman have any limitations as to the size of distribution that it can handle comfortably? For instance, would it be wise for us to change over Majordomo lists as large as 10,000 subscribers to Mailman? 2. Does Mailman offer email admin commands like Majordomo does or are all commands to be done via the web? TIA Rae From Maxim.Savrilov at oberon.novocybersk.ru Thu May 17 15:51:37 2001 From: Maxim.Savrilov at oberon.novocybersk.ru (Maxim Savrilov) Date: Thu, 17 May 2001 20:51:37 +0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman and apache Message-ID: <3B03D769.7020904@oberon.novocybersk.ru> Hi! This is my first posting in this list, so my question may be stupid. So, I want to make web-interface for several mailman lists using php. Mark several checkboxes and get several lists. For each marked checkbox php-script mails to list_name-request at server.domain.ru string like "subscribe Address_of_recipient". But mailman's replies (with subscription confirmation) comes to address apache at server.domain.ru!!! (apache web-server running under user apache). It is not the result I wait. I want mailman send subscription confirmation to address, given in message body, that I sent to list_name-request! Please, help me to solve this problem. I tried to change some parameters in Defaults.py - no result. SMTP server is postfix. Thanks in advance! From soros_gergo at yahoo.com Thu May 17 17:05:52 2001 From: soros_gergo at yahoo.com (Gergo Soros) Date: Thu, 17 May 2001 17:05:52 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman and apache References: <3B03D769.7020904@oberon.novocybersk.ru> Message-ID: <011401c0dee2$df315020$01000001@sgergo.hu> > php-script mails to > list_name-request at server.domain.ru string like "subscribe > Address_of_recipient". > But mailman's replies (with subscription confirmation) comes to address > apache at server.domain.ru!!! This is a PHP question, not Mailman. Set the From: and Reply-to headers to the address of the subscriber: mail("list_name-request at server.domain.ru", "", "subscribe", "From: $subscriber_address\nReply-to: $subscriber-address"); See also PHP documentation for the function mail(). Gergo > (apache web-server running under user > apache). It is not the result I wait. I want mailman send subscription > confirmation to address, given in message body, that I sent to > list_name-request! > Please, help me to solve this problem. I tried to change some parameters > in Defaults.py - no result. > SMTP server is postfix. > Thanks in advance! > > > ------------------------------------------------------ > Mailman-Users maillist - Mailman-Users at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From claw at kanga.nu Thu May 17 17:16:33 2001 From: claw at kanga.nu (J C Lawrence) Date: Thu, 17 May 2001 08:16:33 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] merge-mail feature In-Reply-To: Message from webmaster@diviningmind.com of "Fri, 11 May 2001 20:23:39 PDT." <3AFC4A4B.29511.26E4A1B@localhost> References: <3AFC4A4B.29511.26E4A1B@localhost> Message-ID: <3145.990112593@kanga.nu> On Fri, 11 May 2001 20:23:39 -0700 webmaster wrote: > I'd like to find out if Mailman supports mail-merge - adding names > and other fields to the messages sent in an announcement mode. Nope. -- J C Lawrence claw at kanga.nu ---------(*) http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/ The pressure to survive and rhetoric may make strange bedfellows From troyh at worldspecialt.net Thu May 17 18:40:39 2001 From: troyh at worldspecialt.net (Troyh) Date: Thu, 17 May 2001 09:40:39 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Fw: Vhosts with Mailman 2.05 Message-ID: <002601c0def0$663c0260$1998ca3f@disappointment> Troy n6rej at tcsn.net "I do not understand what I do, for what I want to do I do not do but what I hate I do" Rom 7:15 NIV ----- Original Message ----- From: "N6REJ" To: Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2001 01:20 Subject: Vhosts with Mailman 2.05 > Hello all. > Pardon me for really sounding lame, but I'm having a heck of a time finding > any documentation that explains how to modify mailman so that it will answer > for vhosts also. > for example, the servers domain is worldspecialt.net > however, I want to be able to send emails to lists that reside at > staff.worldspecialt.net, gcdb.org, etc.... > I'm sure there must be a straightforward way to do this, and that I'm just > overlooking the obvisous. > I'm using apache 1.3.19 and postfix. > Also, can we make it so that the admin functions of the lists reside in SSL > space? > > Thanks in advance > > Troy > n6rej at tcsn.net > "I do not understand what I do, for what I want to do I do not do but what I > hate I do" > Rom 7:15 NIV > From orion at deathcon.com Thu May 17 21:03:40 2001 From: orion at deathcon.com (Steve Pirk) Date: Thu, 17 May 2001 12:03:40 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Mailman-Users] MTA username question Message-ID: I know this is a bit off topic, but I have a customer who insists on creating a user with a mixture of upper/lower case characters. I could not figure out why we were having problems (wanted to incorporate into mailman later) until I actually tried to EXPN the name. Linux reports no such user. I even tried to create an alias lowercase: LowerCase in /etc/aliases. Still no luck. Is there some inherent reason "why" usernames with mixed case cannot receive mail? Steve -- Steve Pirk orion at deathcon.com . deathcon.com . pirk.com . webops.com . t2servers.com From lennu at tietoverkot.net Fri May 18 01:05:36 2001 From: lennu at tietoverkot.net (Len Merikanto) Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 02:05:36 +0300 (EEST) Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 2.0.5 Message-ID: What could be wrong if in any newlist i create everything works fine but in old lists transferred from freebsd to solaris same mailman versions i get we hit a bug in admindb when i try to look at pending requests for the list? Len Merikanto, Phone: +358968691950 Tietoverkot Oy Mobile: +358409008494 Munkkisaarenkatu 2 Fax: +358968691935 00150 Helsinki, Finland From orion at deathcon.com Fri May 18 01:46:17 2001 From: orion at deathcon.com (Steve Pirk) Date: Thu, 17 May 2001 16:46:17 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Mailman-Users] Off-Topic: WebMail recommendations? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >From another response, I looked at Twig and SquirrelMail. I picked SquirrelMail because it snapped into place, gave me user preferences, and did not require a database (like MySQL). I have used Aeromail, and it is functional, but does not handle attachments well. I am very happy with SquirrelMail at the moment. Steve -- Steve Pirk orion at deathcon.com . deathcon.com . pirk.com . webops.com . t2servers.com On Wed, 9 May 2001, Dave Melton wrote: > > Sorry for the off-topic post, but at least I confessed my sin in > advance! > > Since this group really seems to know its stuff, I'd like to ask > for recommendations for a webmail server that will run on > the same RHL7 machine as my Mailman installations. I'm hosting > several low-traffic domains for non-profits and other groups...all > important to the people involved, but no world-class performance > requirements. > > Open source is preferrable, both for cost and customization, but > some cost is acceptable if needed. So far I've looked at: > > BrowserExpress: Not open source, but reasonably priced. Incredibly > easy to install, but pretty basic functionality. It works. > > Squirrel Mail: Open source and feature rich, but I don't want to > fight my way through a MySQL->PHP->Apache->SquirrelMail installation > path just to get webmail running. > > "Web E-Mail": Another open source package. Looks very basic and a > bit rough, and they admit that it's not the most secure. Just based > on their web site, I don't think it's where I want to be. > > Any other recommendations? > > Thanks much, > Dave Melton > > > ------------------------------------------------------ > Mailman-Users maillist - Mailman-Users at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users > From wrd at awenet.com Fri May 18 01:58:21 2001 From: wrd at awenet.com (William R. Dickson) Date: Thu, 17 May 2001 16:58:21 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Mailman-Users] Off-Topic: WebMail recommendations? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > > Since this group really seems to know its stuff, I'd like to ask > > for recommendations for a webmail server that will run on > > the same RHL7 machine as my Mailman installations. I'm hosting > > several low-traffic domains for non-profits and other groups...all > > important to the people involved, but no world-class performance > > requirements. I set up NeoMail (http://neomail.sourceforge.net/) on my machine for my brother, who needs to use browsers to get his mail, and he likes it very much. -Bill -- William R. Dickson -- Consuming the Earth's limited resources since 1968 wrd at awenet.com http://www.manoutoftime.org/ I'm an atheist, and that's it. I believe there's nothing we can know except that we should be kind to each other and do what we can for other people. -Katherine Hepburn From eschmitz at webbalah.net Fri May 18 02:04:18 2001 From: eschmitz at webbalah.net (Eric Schmitz) Date: Thu, 17 May 2001 19:04:18 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] big lists, big messages References: <3B002E66.7D6C62DA@webbalah.net> Message-ID: <3B046702.AD5831DB@webbalah.net> Well, you guys are gonna kill me for this, but I seem to have solved my original problem. You may recall that I have a 10,000 member list which gets a 30K mailing each week, and many people were reporting missing issues. Um... it had nothing to do with the size of anything at all. Somebody managed to drop an address into the list that began with a colon (:). It seems that a colon is a control or routing character in majordomo, and that's what was screwing things up. Once I removed that offending address and sent out a test message, we got many replies saying the list is now working. This has turned out to be entirely off-topic, but I suppose there's a chance that Mailman would also choke on an address with a colon in it. Again, thanks for ALL the suggestions! -Eric (running for his foxhole!) From orion at deathcon.com Fri May 18 03:26:19 2001 From: orion at deathcon.com (Steve Pirk) Date: Thu, 17 May 2001 18:26:19 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Mailman-Users] [mailman-owner@babylon5.babcom.com: Your new mailing list: test] In-Reply-To: <20010517174312.A22294@babylon5.babcom.com> Message-ID: That is why the webserver needs a "script alias" like this: ScriptAlias /mailman /home/mailman/cgi-bin This tell apache to treat any requests for files in /mailman to be of type cgi and map them to the real location of /home/mailman/cgi-bin Thus a request for http://www.babcom.com/mailman/admin/test executes /home/mailman/cgi-bin/admin passing in the listname "test" as a variable... Steve -- Steve Pirk orion at deathcon.com . deathcon.com . pirk.com . webops.com . t2servers.com On Thu, 17 May 2001, Phil Stracchino wrote: > OK, now I'm *really* curious.... > > > ----- Forwarded message from mailman-owner at babylon5.babcom.com ----- > > You can configure your mailing list at the following web page: > > http://www.babcom.com/mailman/admin/test > > The web page for users of your mailing list is: > > http://www.babcom.com/mailman/listinfo/test > > ----- End forwarded message ----- > > > Since /mailman/ is .../mailman/cgi-bin/, and /mailman/admin and > /mailman/listinfo are cgi executables, not directories, how on earth is > either of these supposed to magically become a valid URL? Either I'm > missing something, or these URLs are trying to retrieve targets from > directories that cannot exist. > > > > -- > Linux Now! ..........Because friends don't let friends use Microsoft. > phil stracchino -- the renaissance man -- mystic zen biker geek > Vr00m: 2000 Honda CBR929RR -- Cage: 2000 Dodge Intrepid R/T > Previous vr00mage: 1986 VF500F (sold), 1991 VFR750F3 (foully murdered) > > ------------------------------------------------------ > Mailman-Users maillist - Mailman-Users at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users > From troyh at worldspecialt.net Fri May 18 04:42:56 2001 From: troyh at worldspecialt.net (Troyh) Date: Thu, 17 May 2001 19:42:56 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] (no subject) Message-ID: <00cf01c0df44$3f649360$1998ca3f@disappointment> Is there something I'm asking the wrong way? I'm trying to find out how to setup mailman so that I can have each host have mailling list @ their own domain instead of everyone being the servers domain.name I know how to create vhosts as far as postfix and apache are concerned ( least I think I do for postfix ) but not with mailman Troy From ashley at pcraft.com Fri May 18 04:45:46 2001 From: ashley at pcraft.com (Ashley M. Kirchner) Date: Thu, 17 May 2001 20:45:46 -0600 Subject: [Mailman-Users] (no subject) References: <00cf01c0df44$3f649360$1998ca3f@disappointment> Message-ID: <3B048CDA.FF5DA91@pcraft.com> Troyh wrote: > Is there something I'm asking the wrong way? I'm trying to find out how to > setup mailman so that I can have each host have mailling list @ their own > domain instead of everyone being the servers domain.name > > I know how to create vhosts as far as postfix and apache are concerned ( > least I think I do for postfix ) but not with mailman Mailman does not, by default, support that setup. However, there are several folks on this list that have gotten around that (myself included) by doing a number of things. In my case, I have a separate mailman installation for each vhost. Others have been able to run one copy of mailman, for different vhosts. It varies. -- H | Hi, I'm currently out of my mind. Please leave a message. BEEEEP! +-------------------------------------------------------------------- Ashley M. Kirchner . 303.442.6410 x130 Director of Internet Operations / SysAdmin . 800.441.3873 x130 Photo Craft Laboratories, Inc. . 3550 Arapahoe Ave, #6 http://www.pcraft.com ..... . . . Boulder, CO 80303, U.S.A. From claw at kanga.nu Fri May 18 05:35:17 2001 From: claw at kanga.nu (J C Lawrence) Date: Thu, 17 May 2001 20:35:17 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] MTA username question In-Reply-To: Message from Steve Pirk of "Thu, 17 May 2001 12:03:40 PDT." References: Message-ID: <20332.990156917@kanga.nu> On Thu, 17 May 2001 12:03:40 -0700 (PDT) Steve Pirk wrote: > Is there some inherent reason "why" usernames with mixed case > cannot receive mail? Nope. Something is broken with your MTA. -- J C Lawrence claw at kanga.nu ---------(*) http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/ The pressure to survive and rhetoric may make strange bedfellows From rogerk at QueerNet.ORG Fri May 18 05:52:30 2001 From: rogerk at QueerNet.ORG (Roger B.A. Klorese) Date: Thu, 17 May 2001 20:52:30 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Mailman-Users] MTA username question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 17 May 2001, Steve Pirk wrote: > I know this is a bit off topic, but I have a customer who insists > on creating a user with a mixture of upper/lower case characters. > > I could not figure out why we were having problems (wanted to > incorporate into mailman later) until I actually tried to EXPN > the name. Linux reports no such user. I even tried to create an > alias lowercase: LowerCase in /etc/aliases. Still no luck. > > Is there some inherent reason "why" usernames with mixed case cannot > receive mail? Inherent, no. Default, yes. By default, sendmail has the smash-case flag turned on for the local mailer. -- ROGER B.A. KLORESE rogerk at QueerNet.ORG PO Box 14309 San Francisco, CA 94114 "There is only one real blasphemy -- the refusal of joy!" -- Paul Rudnick From darron at javelindigital.com Fri May 18 06:21:31 2001 From: darron at javelindigital.com (Darron Froese) Date: Thu, 17 May 2001 22:21:31 -0600 Subject: [Mailman-Users] (no subject) References: <00cf01c0df44$3f649360$1998ca3f@disappointment> Message-ID: <00bb01c0df52$05b58b70$3001a8c0@windows2000> Here's what you do. It involves changing DNS records, MTA configuration and your Mailman installation: 1. You seem to have to have an A record for the domain in question that points to the same IP address. A CNAME doesn't appear to work. When I was working on this (on Monday for most of the day) - some mail servers would report the actual domain name of the machine when I wanted them to use the modified domain name for the list. (Other mail servers would report the name that I wanted it to report.) An A record *instead* of a CNAME solved the problem on multiple mail servers that I had access to. 2. At the bottom of the general options page in the administrative section of the list there are two fields where you can set the "Hostname this list prefers" and the "Base URL for Mailman web interface". These addresses are used in all of the emails that are sent out from the mailing list. -- darron froese new media technologist sutton javelin corporate communications t 403.716.0351 f 403.265.7662 e darron at javelindigital.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Troyh" To: Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2001 8:42 PM Subject: [Mailman-Users] (no subject) > Is there something I'm asking the wrong way? I'm trying to find out how to > setup mailman so that I can have each host have mailling list @ their own > domain instead of everyone being the servers domain.name > > I know how to create vhosts as far as postfix and apache are concerned ( > least I think I do for postfix ) but not with mailman From barry at digicool.com Fri May 18 08:21:51 2001 From: barry at digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw) Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 02:21:51 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman needs missing modules? References: <20010517160140.A19871@babylon5.babcom.com> Message-ID: <15108.49023.634642.242068@anthem.wooz.org> >>>>> "PS" == Phil Stracchino writes: PS> I recently updated to Python-2.1 from Python-1.5.2, and am now PS> in the process of installing Mailman. Mailman appears to PS> require two (so far) modules, time.py and math.py, that do not PS> appear to be present in the Python-2.1 installed distribution. PS> Have these modules been obsoleted and rolled into the main PS> body of Python itself? If not, where can I get them? If so, PS> what changes would I need to make to Mailman to make it work PS> with Python-2.1? Mailman 2.0.5 should work just fine with Python 2.1 (that's my primary development platform for Mailman 2.1alpha, btw). Both the time and math modules are implemented as extensions (i.e. C modules), and you can easily find out where Python is importing the modules from by doing something like: -------------------- snip snip -------------------- Python 2.1 (#1, Apr 17 2001, 23:30:09) [GCC egcs-2.91.66 19990314/Linux (egcs-1.1.2 release)] on linux2 Type "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information. >>> import time >>> time.__file__ '/usr/local/lib/python2.1/lib-dynload/time.so' >>> import math >>> math.__file__ '/usr/local/lib/python2.1/lib-dynload/math.so' -------------------- snip snip -------------------- So you can see that they are both implemented as dynamic C libraries. Although you don't say, I'm guessing that you're getting some kind of error when time and math are being imported by Mailman. If so, what are those errors? Can you import them via an interactive session, as above? >From the limited information you've given it sounds like your Python installation is broken (and no, math and time aren't going away any time soon! :) -Barry From barry at digicool.com Fri May 18 08:24:59 2001 From: barry at digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw) Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 02:24:59 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 2.0.5 References: Message-ID: <15108.49211.671101.115814@anthem.wooz.org> >>>>> "LM" == Len Merikanto writes: LM> What could be wrong if in any newlist i create everything LM> works fine but in old lists transferred from freebsd to LM> solaris same mailman versions i get we hit a bug in admindb LM> when i try to look at pending requests for the list? I've no idea. What exactly is the error message you're getting? Mailman 2.x's core "database" is stored as Python marshals (of dictionaries). These are platform independent. Last year we transferred all the python.org mailing lists from a Solaris 2.6/Sparc box to Linux 2.2.x x86 box with no troubles at all. I haven't personally tried running Mailman on a FreeBSD box, but i can't imagine how that would be much different. -Barry From barry at digicool.com Fri May 18 08:27:45 2001 From: barry at digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw) Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 02:27:45 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] [mailman-owner@babylon5.babcom.com: Your new mailing list: test] References: <20010517174312.A22294@babylon5.babcom.com> <20010517183721.A22942@babylon5.babcom.com> Message-ID: <15108.49377.68897.111724@anthem.wooz.org> >>>>> "PS" == Phil Stracchino writes: PS> It turned out that what was missing was this: | | SetHandler cgi-script | PS> This wouldn't be needed, of course, if mailman was configured PS> with --with-cgi-ext=.cgi, but there's nothing in the PS> documentation that says it needs to be. I've never had to do this (with very vanilla Apache 1.3 installations). I'll add this to a readme as a possibility. -Barry From jacekkow at ids.pl Fri May 18 10:03:41 2001 From: jacekkow at ids.pl (Jacek Kowalski) Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 10:03:41 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] I have a problem... Message-ID: <3B04D75D.CED22C5B@ids.pl> After run mrtg I recived next errors: Rateup ERROR: /usr/local/src/mrtg-2.9.4/bin/rateup found serial_2's log file was corrupt or not in sorted order: time: 989396637.Rateup WARNING: /usr/local/src/mrtg-2.9.4/bin/rateup could not read the primary log file for _serial_2 Rateup ERROR: /usr/local/src/mrtg-2.9.4/bin/rateup found serial_2's log file was corrupt or not in sorted order: time: 989396637.Rateup WARNING: /usr/local/src/mrtg-2.9.4/bin/rateup The backup log file for serial_2 was invalid as well WARNING: rateup died from Signal 0 with Exit Value 1 when doing router 'serial_2' Signal was 0, Returncode was 1 HOW I MUST RESOLVE THIS PROBLEM? ANY TIME BEFORE WAS RUN CORRECT. -- Z powazaniem Jacek Kowalski ################################################### Psy na l at t@ sie nie gryz at .... Tylko n@ rozumy... ================================================== -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: jacekkow.vcf Type: text/x-vcard Size: 382 bytes Desc: Card for Jacek Kowalski Url : http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20010518/000fdea7/attachment.vcf From enriko at netivity.nl Fri May 18 12:35:47 2001 From: enriko at netivity.nl (Enriko Groen) Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 12:35:47 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] GID trouble Message-ID: <510EAC2065C0D311929200A0247252622624D6@NETIVITY-FS> Hi! I'm trying to get Mailman running on a FreeBSD 4.2 system. MTA is Postfix. Took me some time to get some things running. I now have the web interface up, however I run into problems with the wrapper. When I send an email to the request adres of the list I get to following error message back: ": Command died with status 2: "/usr/local/mailman/mail/wrapper mailcmd sletivity". Command output: Failure to exec script. WANTED gid 65534, GOT gid 1005. (Reconfigure to take 1005?)" However I did configure with GID 1005 (which is the mailman group, default). I tried to configure mailman with GID 65534 to which resulted in the same error only with: "WANTED gid 1005, GOT gid 65534." I did check the Common Problem item which mentions Postfix and wrong GID problems. Did not help. BTW: GID 65534 is nobody -- -------------------------------------------------------- netivity bv www.netivity.nl enriko.groen at netivity.nl 038 - 850 1000 van nagellstraat 4 8011 eb zwolle -------------------------------------------------------- From lennu at tietoverkot.net Fri May 18 13:23:48 2001 From: lennu at tietoverkot.net (Len Merikanto) Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 14:23:48 +0300 (EEST) Subject: [Mailman-Users] GID trouble In-Reply-To: <510EAC2065C0D311929200A0247252622624D6@NETIVITY-FS> Message-ID: On Fri, 18 May 2001, Enriko Groen wrote: > Hi! > > I'm trying to get Mailman running on a FreeBSD 4.2 system. > MTA is Postfix. Took me some time to get some things running. > > I now have the web interface up, however I run into problems with the > wrapper. > > When I send an email to the request adres of the list I get to following > error message back: > > ": Command died with status 2: > "/usr/local/mailman/mail/wrapper mailcmd sletivity". Command output: > Failure to exec script. WANTED gid 65534, GOT gid 1005. (Reconfigure to > take 1005?)" > > > However I did configure with GID 1005 (which is the mailman group, default). > I tried to configure mailman with GID 65534 to which resulted in the same > error only with: > > "WANTED gid 1005, GOT gid 65534." > > > I did check the Common Problem item which mentions Postfix and wrong GID > problems. Did not help. > > BTW: GID 65534 is nobody > I had similar problems until i debugged /etc/group file to correct one. Never really done inspection on groups file but after i got it right and got it reconfigured with correct GID its been working fine and no whines. whats in your /etc/group about mailman? Len Merikanto, Phone: +358968691950 Tietoverkot Oy Mobile: +358409008494 Munkkisaarenkatu 2 Fax: +358968691935 00150 Helsinki, Finland From timduru at timduru.org Sat May 19 12:10:30 2001 From: timduru at timduru.org (timduru) Date: Sat, 19 May 2001 12:10:30 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Not receiving admin pending request by email +misc Message-ID: <20010519121030.391fdc65.timduru@timduru.org> I've installed mailman and created a couple mailing lists , and so far they seem to work fine beside for the pending requests which are not sent to the admin I don't receive the daily batch (I do have the line for the daily batch in the crontab) and when I switch the 'get immediate notice of new requests' to yes I don't get the immediate notices neither .. I do receive everything else, ie subscription confirmation and so on .. Any ideas what could be wrong ? On the other hand I've seen that the international version is still in the work ? I'm planning to use mailman for a french mailing list , so I'll have to translate most of the pages into french, or is there an existing mailman french version ? And for the last a suggestion: when for the subscription , the list is set to the 'require approval' setting it would be nice to be able to send a customized email to the pending member . Anyway , keep up the good work :) ------- Timduru From timduru at timduru.org Sat May 19 12:34:49 2001 From: timduru at timduru.org (timduru) Date: Sat, 19 May 2001 12:34:49 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Not receiving admin pending request by email +misc In-Reply-To: <20010519121030.391fdc65.timduru@timduru.org> References: <20010519121030.391fdc65.timduru@timduru.org> Message-ID: <20010519123449.0a900ea2.timduru@timduru.org> meep , I feel stupid now, The first problem is solved, it was just a gid-mail problem .. ;) I reinstalled a few days ago and forgot to change the gid when I did the configure. didn't see the error in the logs last time I checked though .. The 2 last questions still stand :) On Sat, 19 May 2001 12:10:30 +0200 timduru wrote: > I've installed mailman > and created a couple mailing lists , and so far they seem to work fine > beside for the pending requests which are not sent to the admin > I don't receive the daily batch (I do have the line for the daily batch in the crontab) > and when I switch the 'get immediate notice of new requests' to yes > I don't get the immediate notices neither .. > > I do receive everything else, ie subscription confirmation and so on .. > > Any ideas what could be wrong ? > > > > On the other hand I've seen that the international version is still in the work ? > I'm planning to use mailman for a french mailing list , so I'll have to translate most of the pages into french, or is there an existing mailman french version ? > > > And for the last a suggestion: > when for the subscription , the list is set to the 'require approval' setting > it would be nice to be able to send a customized email to the pending member . > > Anyway , keep up the good work :) > > ------- > Timduru > > ------------------------------------------------------ > Mailman-Users maillist - Mailman-Users at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users From timsn at home.com Sat May 19 19:03:30 2001 From: timsn at home.com (TJ Snider) Date: Sat, 19 May 2001 10:03:30 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Looping problem... Message-ID: I just ended up with a nasty loop... just when starting up a list. To reproduce: Use Mailman 2.0.5. Turn on the anonymous_list option, so mail seems to come from the list. Have someone on the list have a vacation notice setup. The notice loops... in this case up to 600 times, overnight, before I caught it. Is there any way of maintaining the anonymous_list feature without the looping? I've turned the anonymous_list feature off, but if it can't handle vacation notices, what's the use? TJ From jwblist at olympus.net Sun May 20 00:48:02 2001 From: jwblist at olympus.net (John W Baxter) Date: Sat, 19 May 2001 15:48:02 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] browser compatibility of admin interface? In-Reply-To: <20010504074150.19239@mail.music.vt.edu> References: <20010504074150.19239@mail.music.vt.edu> Message-ID: At 3:41 -0400 5/4/2001, Michael Dunston wrote: >Has anyone used the OmniWeb 4.0 rc1 browser with the >admin pages? Tonight I used it to remove a single user (by unchecking >their 'subscr' option in the membership management section) and it >unsubscribed every user (all 30) in that chunk of the membership list. >Thanks. Sorry, I'm in "catch up" mode on this list, but this one seemed important to answer. Using a Mac OS X OmniWeb version of about that age, I looked--as a user--at my own settings on one of our lists and noted that the radio buttons were all off, although two should have been on. At that point I should have muttered here and to Omni Group, but I didn't. I did stop using OmniWeb for dealing with the Mailman pages. [Because of the lateness of this response, I'll note that OmniWeb 4.0 final is out for Mac OS X, and a 4.0.1 is expected "soon." http://www.omnigroup.com/products/omniweb/ is where this is found. I'll also note that issues like this are surprising, given that Omni has been doing web browsers since roughly the time that the Netscape crowd left NCSA.] --John -- John Baxter jwblist at olympus.net Port Ludlow, WA, USA From n6rej at tcsn.net Thu May 17 10:20:34 2001 From: n6rej at tcsn.net (N6REJ) Date: Thu, 17 May 2001 01:20:34 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Vhosts with Mailman 2.05 Message-ID: <004f01c0deaa$3f97e660$1499ca3f@disappointment> Hello all. Pardon me for really sounding lame, but I'm having a heck of a time finding any documentation that explains how to modify mailman so that it will answer for vhosts also. for example, the servers domain is worldspecialt.net however, I want to be able to send emails to lists that reside at staff.worldspecialt.net, gcdb.org, etc.... I'm sure there must be a straightforward way to do this, and that I'm just overlooking the obvisous. I'm using apache 1.3.19 and postfix. Also, can we make it so that the admin functions of the lists reside in SSL space? Thanks in advance Troy n6rej at tcsn.net "I do not understand what I do, for what I want to do I do not do but what I hate I do" Rom 7:15 NIV From Futuredude7 at aol.com Thu May 17 16:22:10 2001 From: Futuredude7 at aol.com (Futuredude7 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 17 May 2001 10:22:10 EDT Subject: [Mailman-Users] how do i download it? Message-ID: <7b.14e1538e.28353892@aol.com> im just looking to use the program. I cant find where to click to download the program in your site. mike reynolds From preeti.mehta at wipro.com Fri May 18 07:55:10 2001 From: preeti.mehta at wipro.com (Preeti Mehta) Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 11:25:10 +0530 Subject: [Mailman-Users] help reqd using mailman Message-ID: <017d01c0df5f$1a15d720$cacda8c0@wipro.com> hi i have installed mailman ver and am facing some problems. my platform & versionas r : Red Hat Linux 6.2 Python ver 1.5.2 i followed all installation steps. got only one error regading addign the following line to my apache httpd.conf Exec /mailman/* $prefix/cgi-bin/* it gave an error when i started apache saying unrecognised command/phrase etc so i commente dthe line & everything worked fine now am able to see the web interface etc ,create a new list add memeber thru the admin links if i subsibe from the users page it send me a mailf ior confirmation as well the prob is that if i reply to the confirmation mail to confirm my regiustration or send a msg to the mailing list from the id i added thru the admin page neither does the msg go to the mailing list nor does it bounce back i fail to understand the prob please help thanks in advance regards preeti -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20010518/d04890a6/attachment.htm From oliver at samera.com.py Sun May 20 05:12:22 2001 From: oliver at samera.com.py (Oliver Schulze L.) Date: Sat, 19 May 2001 23:12:22 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Translations Message-ID: <3B073616.7050600@samera.com.py> Hi, is there a translation package for mailman? Like squid has? Thanks Oliver From darron at javelindigital.com Sun May 20 08:02:58 2001 From: darron at javelindigital.com (Darron Froese) Date: Sun, 20 May 2001 00:02:58 -0600 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Vhosts with Mailman 2.05 In-Reply-To: <004f01c0deaa$3f97e660$1499ca3f@disappointment> Message-ID: On 5/17/01 2:20 AM, "N6REJ" wrote: > Hello all. > Pardon me for really sounding lame, but I'm having a heck of a time finding > any documentation that explains how to modify mailman so that it will answer > for vhosts also. > for example, the servers domain is worldspecialt.net > however, I want to be able to send emails to lists that reside at > staff.worldspecialt.net, gcdb.org, etc.... > I'm sure there must be a straightforward way to do this, and that I'm just > overlooking the obvisous. > I'm using apache 1.3.19 and postfix. Everything you need has been posted to the list multiple times. What seems to be the problem? Posting logs or actually describing what the problem is would help. -- darron froese new media technologist sutton javelin corporate communications t 403.716.0351 f 403.265.7662 e darron at javelindigital.com From cewatts at frontier.net Sun May 20 11:57:12 2001 From: cewatts at frontier.net (Charlie Watts) Date: Sun, 20 May 2001 03:57:12 -0600 (MDT) Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: Archiving problems ... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 18 May 2001, Charlie Watts wrote: > I've got mailman 2.0.5 installed on a FreeBSD4.3-stable system. > > The administrative and user E-mail and web interfaces are working > superbly. > > E-mails to the list go out promptly and smoothly. > > > But I can't get it to archive anything to save my life. It doesn't seem > to so much as -touch- the filesystem. Well, I don't think I'm a -total- idiot anymore, but I'm still confounded. I cvsupped rebuilt the world, and everything is working. Apologies for wasting your time ... -- Charlie Watts cewatts at frontier.net Frontier Internet Systems Janitor and Network Plumber http://www.frontier.net/ From jleurs at pt.lu Sun May 20 20:58:29 2001 From: jleurs at pt.lu (Jacques Leurs ET&C ag-sa) Date: Sun, 20 May 2001 20:58:29 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] URGENT REQUEST FOR HELP Message-ID: Urgent request for help We recently set up Mailman version 2.00. We did several trial set-up?s and test?s till we where confident with the programme. We chose it for the various ways of set-up and the respect of the subscribers. Than we started hosting lists coming from YAHOO where the have been kicked out for various reasons. At the present we host 3 lists with 29000 members. The transfer has been done very easy and smoothly the first E zine with an attached cartoon has been handled by our server. Since that day we are unable to send the daily list again no matter what we try or how we try or worse how hard we try. Problem is that we have other lists to start among them the Jokes with the world wide largest Dbase 165.00 jokes in 4 languages. So it is for us of a capital importance to solve our problem as soon as possible. Are there check lists for such cases? Has any one had a similar problem and a suggestion? None of the 3 active lists is sending mail out The test list is no longer worker since the day the active lists have been used once each. Thank you in advance for your cooperation and reply to jleurs at pt.lu -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20010520/236a5014/attachment.html From jleurs at pt.lu Sun May 20 21:00:51 2001 From: jleurs at pt.lu (Jacques Leurs ET&C ag-sa) Date: Sun, 20 May 2001 21:00:51 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Urgent request for assistance Message-ID: Urgent request for assistance We recently set up Mailman version 2.00. We did several trial set-up?s and test?s till we where confident with the programme. We chose it for the various ways of set-up and the respect of the subscribers. Than we started hosting lists coming from YAHOO where the have been kicked out for various reasons. At the present we host 3 lists with 29000 members. The transfer has been done very easy and smoothly the first E zine with an attached cartoon has been handled by our server. Since that day we are unable to send the daily list again no matter what we try or how we try or worse how hard we try. Problem is that we have other lists to start among them the Jokes with the world wide largest Dbase 165.00 jokes in 4 languages. So it is for us of a capital importance to solve our problem as soon as possible. Are there check list for such cases? Has any one had a similar problem and a suggestion? None of the 3 active lists is sending mail out The test list is no longer worker since the day the active lists have been used once each. Thank you in advance for your cooperation and reply to jleurs at pt.lu -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20010520/1a77931b/attachment.htm From jleurs at pt.lu Sun May 20 21:06:59 2001 From: jleurs at pt.lu (Jacques Leurs ET&C ag-sa) Date: Sun, 20 May 2001 21:06:59 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Urgent request for assistance Message-ID: Urgent request for assistance We recently set up Mailman version 2.00. We did several trial set-up?s and test?s till we where confident with the programme. We chose it for the various ways of set-up and the respect of the subscribers. Than we started hosting lists coming from YAHOO where the have been kicked out for various reasons. At the present we host 3 lists with 29000 members. The transfer has been done very easy and smoothly the first E zine with an attached cartoon has been handled by our server. Since that day we are unable to send the daily list again no matter what we try or how we try or worse how hard we try. Problem is that we have other lists to start among them the Jokes with the world wide largest Dbase 165.00 jokes in 4 languages. So it is for us of a capital importance to solve our problem as soon as possible. Are there check list for such cases? Has any one had a similar problem and a suggestion? None of the 3 active lists is sending mail out The test list is no longer worker since the day the active lists have been used once each. Thank you in advance for your cooperation and reply to jleurs at pt.lu -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20010520/c8bfca2e/attachment.html From dmick at utopia.West.Sun.COM Sun May 20 23:05:08 2001 From: dmick at utopia.West.Sun.COM (Dan Mick) Date: Sun, 20 May 2001 14:05:08 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Urgent request for assistance References: Message-ID: <3B083184.56B63656@utopia.west.sun.com> Is there a question here? I can't find a problem description or question in your mail. From be at berdmann.de Mon May 21 00:38:13 2001 From: be at berdmann.de (Bernhard R. Erdmann) Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 00:38:13 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] What does this error mean? References: <004b01c0ddbb$44a43950$02930440@tron> Message-ID: <3B084755.E3BAE48@berdmann.de> > OK, that seemed to work. As soon as I checked my /etc/hosts file I noticed > my localhost entry missing. RedHat is known to forget "127.0.0.1 localhost" in /etc/hosts. From tree at basistech.com Mon May 21 04:05:39 2001 From: tree at basistech.com (Tom Emerson) Date: Sun, 20 May 2001 22:05:39 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Using alternate password repository? Message-ID: <15112.30707.884029.740703@cymru.basistech.com> I am maintaining several mailing lists associated with an organization that includes password-protected access to certain areas of its website. I do not like the idea of having separate passwords for mailing list preferences access and website access. Ideally both the http server and Mailman would share authentication information. This can be accomplished by either writing an Apache authentication module that makes use of the Mailman information (but which if the user belongs to multiple lists?) or Mailman authenticates against another mechanism that is used by the server, such as a MySQL table. My questions, then, are these: 1) Has anyone else handled this? 2) If so, how? 3) If not, what would the Mailman intelligencia recommend? I have not spent a lot of time reading the Mailman code, but it would seem that it would be relatively straightforward to write a replacement to SecurityManager.py that authenticates against something other than the marshalled dictionary. Thanks in advance, -tree -- Tom Emerson Basis Technology Corp. Sr. Sinostringologist http://www.basistech.com "Beware the lollipop of mediocrity: lick it once and you suck forever" From barry at digicool.com Mon May 21 04:11:51 2001 From: barry at digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw) Date: Sun, 20 May 2001 22:11:51 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] browser compatibility of admin interface? References: <20010504074150.19239@mail.music.vt.edu> Message-ID: <15112.31079.32632.33656@anthem.wooz.org> >>>>> "JWB" == John W Baxter writes: JWB> [Because of the lateness of this response, I'll note that JWB> OmniWeb 4.0 final is out for Mac OS X, and a 4.0.1 is JWB> expected "soon." http://www.omnigroup.com/products/omniweb/ JWB> is where this is found. I'll also note that issues like this JWB> are surprising, given that Omni has been doing web browsers JWB> since roughly the time that the Netscape crowd left NCSA.] Did they at one time build a browser for NextStep? I seem to remember using OmniWeb years ago when I was hacking on NS. I never tried it with Mailman though. I would be surprised if this bug hasn't been discovered before for other OmniWeb users. I think the HTML that Mailman spits out is pretty pedestrian. -Barry From barry at digicool.com Mon May 21 04:23:25 2001 From: barry at digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw) Date: Sun, 20 May 2001 22:23:25 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Urgent request for assistance References: Message-ID: <15112.31773.335698.576857@anthem.wooz.org> >>>>> "JL" == Jacques Leurs writes: JL> We recently set up Mailman version 2.00. First of all, upgrade to Mailman 2.0.5. May or may not fix your specific problem, but it does have some important patches. JL> The transfer has been done very easy and smoothly the first E JL> zine with an attached cartoon has been handled by our JL> server. Since that day we are unable to send the daily list JL> again no matter what we try or how we try or worse how hard we JL> try. Have you looked in the logs/error file, or your MTA's syslog file? If the system is generating errors, they'd likely show up in one of those two files. Is Mailman's qfiles/ directory just filling up with the messages you're trying to send out? If so, maybe qrunner isn't running. Do you have stale locks in the locks/ directory? Usually those are only going to occur because of some other error, so again the log files are your friends. Is the message getting through Mailman but choking on your MTA, or the remote MTAs? Lots of questions, and I'm sure there are plenty of people on this list who would be willing to help, but we'll need more information! -Barry From davek at mail.commercedata.com Mon May 21 06:03:51 2001 From: davek at mail.commercedata.com (Dave Klingler) Date: Sun, 20 May 2001 22:03:51 -0600 (MDT) Subject: [Mailman-Users] browser compatibility of admin interface? In-Reply-To: <15112.31079.32632.33656@anthem.wooz.org> from "Barry A. Warsaw" at May 20, 2001 10:11:51 PM Message-ID: <200105210403.WAA13665@mail.commercedata.com> Unfortunately, several years ago Omni somehow contrived to write huge, buggy, bloated code under a development system where that wasn't supposed to happen, and they've been doing it ever since. They're a nice bunch of guys, but their libraries actually have the ability to crash my NeXTStep and OpenStep machines with nasty bus errors. Nobody at Omni has ever had time to figure out what was happening (OmniWeb's a mostly free product), so there it sits. Interestingly enough, Omni's other apps are equally evil, which is why I decided that it was the libraries. Omni's libraries are used in all their custom, contracted apps as well, which is interesting. The original OmniWeb 1.0 by Will Shipley was small, elegant, relatively bugfree and intuitive to use, but the followon 2.0 was totally rearchitected by Ken Case to occupy more disk space, confuse the users, and use more machine cycles. Current versions of OmniWeb are based on the Case codebase, so far as I know. Apologies to any Omni employees who read this some day and feel insulted. I found out the hard way that it's a good idea to save my work before running any Omni apps, so I carry a little bit of extra bile around with me regarding OmniGroup. Without running Omni apps my uptimes tend to be right around 3-5 months. Dave "I sent in my bug reports" Klingler > >>>>> "JWB" == John W Baxter writes: > > JWB> [Because of the lateness of this response, I'll note that > JWB> OmniWeb 4.0 final is out for Mac OS X, and a 4.0.1 is > JWB> expected "soon." http://www.omnigroup.com/products/omniweb/ > JWB> is where this is found. I'll also note that issues like this > JWB> are surprising, given that Omni has been doing web browsers > JWB> since roughly the time that the Netscape crowd left NCSA.] > > Did they at one time build a browser for NextStep? I seem to remember > using OmniWeb years ago when I was hacking on NS. I never tried it > with Mailman though. > > I would be surprised if this bug hasn't been discovered before for > other OmniWeb users. I think the HTML that Mailman spits out is > pretty pedestrian. > > -Barry > > ------------------------------------------------------ > Mailman-Users maillist - Mailman-Users at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users > From chuqui at plaidworks.com Mon May 21 06:52:03 2001 From: chuqui at plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach) Date: Sun, 20 May 2001 21:52:03 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] browser compatibility of admin interface? In-Reply-To: <200105210403.WAA13665@mail.commercedata.com> Message-ID: <200105210444.f4L4iMh04760@plaidworks.com> On Sunday, May 20, 2001, at 09:03 PM, Dave Klingler wrote: > Apologies to any Omni employees who read this some day and feel > insulted. I'll simply say not everyone agrees with Dave, and leave it at that. -- Chuq Von Rospach, Internet Gnome [ = = ] Yes, yes, I've finally finished my home page. Lucky you. Someday, we'll look back on this, laugh nervously and change the subject. From gnut at odn.de Mon May 21 16:36:39 2001 From: gnut at odn.de (Stefan Schleifer) Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 16:36:39 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Changing Passwords via script / Very Big List Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20010521162638.043233b8@transwarp.noris.de> Dear List Members, i've subscribed to this list recently, have scanned the archives, found nothing so i dare to write to the list :-). Problem 1: I need to set the same password for every User, as the system is set up as a "newsletter" where people are automatically subscribed to when registering at my mailalias-service (see below) but should be able to remove theirselves very quickly and with no discomfort. I thought of two ways: Disabling the passwordchecking function OR setting the same password for every user that i can include it in my FAQ. Any hints? Problem 2: I currently manage a big list (120446 Users at the moment). (NO! This is not a spamming list! I am running a web-based mailadress-service with that many users subscribed at the moment.) with some selfmade scripts (bash) and want to move to mailman. Can anyone give me a hint about whether that performs or not (linux / sendmail with dns...). The problem is not "It will work, but it takes DAYS to deliver the mails...", but if the problem would be "no, there is a restriction to 65536 users per list" then i'd stop migration... :-) Any help or hint, especially for Problem #1 would be appreciated, regards, Stefan From oystein.sanne at nrk.no Mon May 21 16:58:18 2001 From: oystein.sanne at nrk.no (=?iso-8859-1?Q?=D8ystein_Sanne?=) Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 16:58:18 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Question regarding versions and upgrading Message-ID: Hello I'm running mailman 2.0.1 on a RedHat 6.1 today, although running is not the right word. It's still not being used, but will in some weeks. And I'm thinking of upgrading the server to RH 7.0 and installing the lastest version of mailman on it. I'd appreciate some hints about this. Have any of you upgraded from 6.1 to 7.0 and had any problems or things I should be aware of? Or maybe upgraded to the lastest mailman and discovered some problems with RedHat and that version. If you have any experiences regarding such upgrades, I'd be happy to know of them before I decide to upgrade or not. Replies to me directly instead of to the list would work fine. Best Regards ?ystein Sanne ........... IT-consultant NRK.no oystein.sanne at nrk.no www.nrk.no From lop at duke.edu Mon May 21 17:22:49 2001 From: lop at duke.edu (Luke) Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 11:22:49 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Mailman-Users] Using Mailman without /etc/aliases Message-ID: Hello all, Our unix system here uses a kind of strange distributed aliases system- running newaliases affects /etc/aliases on all machines. So getting mailman to work in the traditional sense wouldn't be acceptable at my site. I do, however, have root access on my own machine. So I could create a mail spool, or even a user, for each mailing list I create (not many). Can anyone think of a way to get mailman to get the appropriate scripts to execute for incoming mail by tricks with either the mail spool, the .forward file, or something like that? Let me know if anyone has any ideas. Thanks Luke Palmer From akopps at CSUA.Berkeley.EDU Mon May 21 19:29:43 2001 From: akopps at CSUA.Berkeley.EDU (Akop Pogosian) Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 10:29:43 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Mailman-Users] Using Mailman without /etc/aliases In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 21 May 2001, Luke wrote: > Hello all, > > Our unix system here uses a kind of strange distributed aliases system- > running newaliases affects /etc/aliases on all machines. So getting > mailman to work in the traditional sense wouldn't be acceptable at my > site. > Does /etc/aliases get replaced every time or they just run "newliases"? You can have as many aliases files as you want, take a look at the AliasFile option in your sendmail.cf. You can add your own alias file such as /etc/mailman.aliases. Though, if your site is using rdist or something similar to distribute the aliases files, they might as well use it to distribute sendmail.cf some day and nuke all your modifications. Ask your system administrator about that. > I do, however, have root access on my own machine. So I could create a > mail spool, or even a user, for each mailing list I create (not many). That would work if you machine can receive mail on its own. If your site has a central mail server and for each host there has an MX DNS record that points to your mail hub then you won't be able to receive any mail on your machine because all or most mail software out there respects MX records. Why not ask the system administrator to install mailman on their central mail server if there is one and make it available to the users? -akop From adam at morrison-ind.com Mon May 21 19:37:42 2001 From: adam at morrison-ind.com (Adam Tauno Williams) Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 13:37:42 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Mailman-Users] Using Mailman without /etc/aliases In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <990466662.3b095266b7b35@barracuda> >>Our unix system here uses a kind of strange distributed aliases system- >>running newaliases affects /etc/aliases on all machines. So getting >>mailman to work in the traditional sense wouldn't be acceptable at my >>site. >Does /etc/aliases get replaced every time or they just run "newliases"? >You can have as many aliases files as you want, take a look at the >AliasFile option in your sendmail.cf. You can add your own alias >file such as /etc/mailman.aliases. Though, if your site is using rdist >or something similar to distribute the aliases files, they might as well >use it to distribute sendmail.cf some day and nuke all your modifications. >Ask your system administrator about that. >>I do, however, have root access on my own machine. So I could create >>a mail spool, or even a user, for each mailing list I create (not >>many). >That would work if you machine can receive mail on its own. If your >site has a central mail server and for each host there has an MX DNS >record that points to your mail hub then you won't be able to receive >any mail on your machine because all or most mail software out there >respects MX records. Why not ask the system administrator to install >mailman on their central mail server if there is one and make it >available to the users? If your site has an LDAP directory that is also a great way to handle mail alias distribution and supports mail routing as well. If so, the local admins are more likely willing to create an LDAP object for your list box then mess with their mail servers, DNS, etc... Of course, if you don't use LDAP this isn't very helpful. Systems and Network Administrator Morrison Industries 1825 Monroe Ave NW. Grand Rapids, MI. 49505 From agils at olanet.net Mon May 21 13:31:02 2001 From: agils at olanet.net (agils) Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 13:31:02 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] my submission Message-ID: <000001c0e23f$4ecdc8a0$70df96d5@AntonioGil> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20010521/2929be46/attachment.htm From johnpaulr at ehsmed.com Tue May 22 00:07:46 2001 From: johnpaulr at ehsmed.com (John-Paul Robinson) Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 17:07:46 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] searching the archives Message-ID: <0a5e01c0e242$7781d450$3c0a0a0a@thurston> Could someone explain how to search the archives of mailman-users at the Python.Org search page? I can't seem to understand the "hint" in the mailing list management page. (http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users). When I go to http://www.python.org/search I don't see where I'm supposed to select the SIG archives. All I see is how to search the Python Website, newsgroups, FAQ, and vaults. I've tried searching all of these sites for "mailman virtual host" with very little success. When I click the SIG link at the top of the search page I see the various SIGs, but their aren't any options to search them. Some help or a better hint would be appreciated. John-Paul From enriko at netivity.nl Tue May 22 09:46:39 2001 From: enriko at netivity.nl (Enriko Groen) Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 09:46:39 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] No confirm & localisation Message-ID: <510EAC2065C0D311929200A024725262262510@NETIVITY-FS> Hi I just switched from majordomo to mailman on my FreeBSD 4.2 mailserver. I have three questions: Is it possible to add members by sending an email containing "subscribe " without needing a confirm message from the recipient? I know I can do this through the add_member command but I would like to do this through the mail-interface. Are there any localisized files/distributions available for the current version of mailman or do I need to tranlate them myself? I'm looking specificly for dutch language files. Finally... is a syntax specification avialable for the wrapper? So I can check which commands can be used together with the wrapper. -- -------------------------------------------------------- netivity bv www.netivity.nl enriko.groen at netivity.nl 038 - 850 1000 van nagellstraat 4 8011 eb zwolle -------------------------------------------------------- From hwg at quaestor.hu Tue May 22 13:20:47 2001 From: hwg at quaestor.hu (Horvath Gabor (hwg)) Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 13:20:47 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to remove/stop posts already sent to the list? Message-ID: <01C0E2C2.04243B30@quake.rulez.quaestor.hu> Hello, I accidentally posted to my list (Mailman 1.1) 10 copies of a message. Because of the large number of subscribers (100s), I had to stop the smtp server running under the mailing list because lots of people began to get angry (rightly). We have removed the messages sent by Mailman from the mailserver's spool, but we cannot remove them from Mailman. 1. Can anyone tell me, how could we do that? (we must be sure that the rest of the list won't get the 10 copies) 2. Is there any unsent messages in Mailman, or it gave all messages to smtp? Thanx in advance. hwg From enriko at netivity.nl Tue May 22 15:24:09 2001 From: enriko at netivity.nl (Enriko Groen) Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 15:24:09 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] To bulk or not to bulk Message-ID: <510EAC2065C0D311929200A024725262262519@NETIVITY-FS> Hi! Is there a way to change/switch off the "Precendence: bluk" header in mailman? For one of my mailinglists I would like to turn it off to receive bounces at user-level. -- -------------------------------------------------------- netivity bv www.netivity.nl enriko.groen at netivity.nl 038 - 850 1000 van nagellstraat 4 8011 eb zwolle -------------------------------------------------------- From barry at digicool.com Tue May 22 18:45:43 2001 From: barry at digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw) Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 12:45:43 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] searching the archives References: <0a5e01c0e242$7781d450$3c0a0a0a@thurston> Message-ID: <15114.38839.56566.751155@anthem.wooz.org> >>>>> "JR" == John-Paul Robinson writes: JR> Could someone explain how to search the archives of JR> mailman-users at the Python.Org search page? I can't seem to JR> understand the "hint" in the mailing list management page. JR> (http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users). That's because it's wrong :) At one time we were indexing all the mailing list archives, but we had to turn that off when we ran out of disk space. We've since cleared enough disk space to turn the indexer back on, so you should see the list archive collection button return soon. (Please allow some time for the indexer to trawl the almost 5GB of public archives ;). When it's re-enabled, http://www.python.org/search will be the URL you want. -Barry From barry at digicool.com Tue May 22 18:51:41 2001 From: barry at digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw) Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 12:51:41 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] No confirm & localisation References: <510EAC2065C0D311929200A024725262262510@NETIVITY-FS> Message-ID: <15114.39197.470963.18537@anthem.wooz.org> >>>>> "EG" == Enriko Groen writes: EG> I just switched from majordomo to mailman on my FreeBSD 4.2 EG> mailserver. I have three questions: Excellent! :) EG> Is it possible to add members by sending an email containing EG> "subscribe " without needing a EG> confirm message from the recipient? I know I can do this EG> through the add_member command but I would like to do this EG> through the mail-interface. I believe that if you use the list-owners' password you don't need confirmation. I'd have to double check that though (note to Marc: you may want to double check this too! ;). EG> Are there any localisized files/distributions available for EG> the current version of mailman or do I need to tranlate them EG> myself? I'm looking specificly for dutch language files. The current CVS tree -- what will become Mailman 2.1 -- has all the i18n stuff integrated. There are still a few glitches in the current snapshot, but I'll try to clear those up today. Mailman 2.1 isn't ready for prime time yet though, but if you're interested in translating the catalog and templates for Dutch, that would be great (I'm sure Guido would agree. :). EG> Finally... is a syntax specification avialable for the EG> wrapper? So I can check which commands can be used together EG> with the wrapper. There's no formal specification, but the interface is pretty simple. Look in src/mail-wrapper.c. VALID_COMMANDS holds the list of scripts that wrapper will allow to be invoked; these must exactly name scripts that live in $prefix/scripts. Any arguments are passed on to the script. -Barry From barry at digicool.com Tue May 22 18:52:30 2001 From: barry at digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw) Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 12:52:30 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to remove/stop posts already sent to the list? References: <01C0E2C2.04243B30@quake.rulez.quaestor.hu> Message-ID: <15114.39246.267725.583094@anthem.wooz.org> >>>>> "HG" == Horvath Gabor writes: HG> I accidentally posted to my list (Mailman 1.1) 10 copies of a HG> message. Anybody else remember how Mailman 1.1 worked? ;} From barry at digicool.com Tue May 22 18:59:28 2001 From: barry at digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw) Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 12:59:28 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] To bulk or not to bulk References: <510EAC2065C0D311929200A024725262262519@NETIVITY-FS> Message-ID: <15114.39664.855949.224410@anthem.wooz.org> >>>>> "EG" == Enriko Groen writes: EG> Is there a way to change/switch off the "Precendence: bluk" EG> header in mailman? For one of my mailinglists I would like to EG> turn it off to receive bounces at user-level. It's not configurable. If you wanted to make it configurable per-list, here's how I'd do it (warning: Python hacking required): Hack Mailman/Handlers/CookHeaders.py round about where you see msg['Precedence'] = 'bulk'. Wrap this in a `if' test against some made up attribute of the list, e.g. if not getattr(mlist, 'omit_precedence_bulk', 0): msg['Precedence'] = 'bulk' Note that you must use getattr() because this attribute doesn't exist on MailList objects by default. However, using bin/withlist, add this attribute to the list you want to not have the header on by doing something like: % python -i bin/withlist -l mynonbulkylist Loading list stage (locked) >>> m.omit_precedence_bulk = 1 >>> m.Save() >>> ^D Unlocking (but not saving) list: stage Finalizing This general approach works for anything else you'd want to customize on a per-list basis, but which Mailman doesn't give you the option for by default (read: RFC 2369 headers!). -Barry From eparker at mindsec.com Tue May 22 22:57:34 2001 From: eparker at mindsec.com (Erik) Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 13:57:34 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman as bulk mailer.. variables in body? Message-ID: I'm going to try and use Mailman as a bulk mailer, to send out only about 250k Emails.. The difficult part is, I need to use dynamic information in each recipients message.. The E-mail address that the message is sent to, needs to be referenced in the body, like: To: mailman-users at python.org "Dear mailman-users at python.org, thanks for reading my babbling" To: mailman-developers at python.org "Dear mailman-developers at python.org, thanks for reading my babbling" I figured since this is a one time use, perhaps there is an attribute in the footer/header section I could use.. and just make the entire bulk message, a big footer, and use %(_email_addy) or something.. Any ideas? Does anyone have a preferred method of sending dynamic spam out? (And just so everyone knows, it's not really spam, it's a newsletter our customers signed up for) Erik "Security is a process, not a product." From Antal at NederWeb.com Wed May 23 00:38:20 2001 From: Antal at NederWeb.com (Antal Mittendorff) Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 00:38:20 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Question about receiving my own postings... Message-ID: Hello, I have a question about me receiving my iwn postings, even when i have the "metoo" option checked. This happens when I have the: "Hide the sender of a message, replacing it with the list address (Removes From, Sender and Reply-To fields" option checked. Not when I have the "Hide the sender of a message, replacing it with the list address (Removes From, Sender and Reply-To fields)" not checked. Is there a way around it? I want to be able to hide the senders email adres, and not having the sender get his email back. Hope that someone has the answer. TIA Antal Mittendorff -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20010523/3e09f705/attachment.html From lop at duke.edu Wed May 23 01:01:10 2001 From: lop at duke.edu (Luke) Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 19:01:10 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Mailman-Users] HP-UX woes and fixes Message-ID: I have mailman marginally running on HP-UX 10.20. Something weird: every time I make any kind of administrative change to the list, I start getting mailed messages like this: Traceback (most recent call last): File "/home/mailman/cron/gate_news", line 222, in ? main() File "/home/mailman/cron/gate_news", line 203, in main process_lists(lock) File "/home/mailman/cron/gate_news", line 140, in process_lists mlist = MailList.MailList(listname, lock=0) File "/home/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 79, in __init__ self.Load() File "/home/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 891, in Load dict, e = self.__load(dbfile) File "/home/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 868, in __load fp = open(dbfile) IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied: '/home/mailman/lists/seeds/config.db' If you go in and look at config.db, its bits have been modified so it's like this: -rw-rw---- 1 apache mailman 3929 May 22 16:48 config.db when in fact the file should be owned by mailman. a chown as root gets everything running again. Any ideas why this would get changed every time, and how to fix it? One issue that seems pretty frequent that I wanted to post a solution to: most HP-UX people grab the precompiled binary distribution of python 1.6.1 and install it. The problem with it is that it prints out this error message: Could not find platform dependent libraries Consider setting $PYTHONHOME to [:] so this gets mailed to you every time python is run- a LOT. The solution to this (figured out by Philippe Rodriguez) is simply this: mkdir /opt/python/lib/python1.6/lib-dynload Just wanted to pass that along. Thanks Luke Palmer From chuqui at plaidworks.com Wed May 23 02:04:36 2001 From: chuqui at plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach) Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 17:04:36 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman as bulk mailer.. variables in body? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200105222356.f4MNuth16901@plaidworks.com> On Tuesday, May 22, 2001, at 01:57 PM, Erik wrote: > > I'm going to try and use Mailman as a bulk mailer, to send out only > about > 250k Emails.. > > The difficult part is, I need to use dynamic information in each > recipients message.. The E-mail address that the message is sent to, > needs > to be referenced in the body, like: > Mailman's not a good tool for this -- it's not set up for this kind of use. For this, especially a one-time deal, you're better off writing a dedicated mail script of some sort. Mailman can't handle this kind of customization. -- Chuq Von Rospach, Internet Gnome [ = = ] Yes, yes, I've finally finished my home page. Lucky you. 95% of being a net.god is sounding persuasive and convincing people you know what you're talking about, even when you're making it up as you go along. (chuq von rospach, 1992) From nicks at argate.net Wed May 23 02:24:43 2001 From: nicks at argate.net (Nick Seidenman) Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 20:24:43 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Mailman-Users] Received headers Message-ID: Is it possible to have mailman pass Received: (or any other) headers through? If so, how? -- nick From alex at phred.org Wed May 23 03:02:40 2001 From: alex at phred.org (alex wetmore) Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 18:02:40 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Mailman-Users] Received headers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010522180030.F26023-100000@phred.org> On Tue, 22 May 2001, Nick Seidenman wrote: > Is it possible to have mailman pass Received: (or any other) headers > through? If so, how? It already does. These came off of your message, as it was received in my mailbox. The bottom 2 Recieved headers were added before the message was processed by mailman. Received: from mail.python.org ([63.102.49.29]) by catfood.nt.phred.org over TLS secured channel with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.2883); Tue, 22 May 2001 17:27:35 -0700 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=mail.python.org) by mail.python.org with esmtp (Exim 3.21 #1) id 152MTX-0007gE-00; Tue, 22 May 2001 20:26:07 -0400 Received: from [64.34.99.5] (helo=metellus.argate.net) by mail.python.org with esmtp (Exim 3.21 #1) id 152MSg-0007fr-00 for mailman-users at python.org; Tue, 22 May 2001 20:25:14 -0400 Received: from metellus (metellus [192.168.111.88]) by metellus.argate.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id D8FA287A02 for ; Tue, 22 May 2001 20:24:43 -0400 (EDT) alex From nicks at argate.net Wed May 23 03:13:00 2001 From: nicks at argate.net (Nick Seidenman) Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 21:13:00 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Mailman-Users] Received headers In-Reply-To: <20010522180030.F26023-100000@phred.org> Message-ID: On Tue, 22 May 2001, alex wetmore wrote: > On Tue, 22 May 2001, Nick Seidenman wrote: > > Is it possible to have mailman pass Received: (or any other) headers > > through? If so, how? > > It already does. These came off of your message, as it was received > in my mailbox. The bottom 2 Recieved headers were added before the > message was processed by mailman. Yeah, I probably should have looked at some other culprits before I wrote. I think outbound mail from the offending site is going through a proxy that is rewriting the headers. I checked on a few other sites I own/run and found there was no such header-mangling going on. Thanks to all who responded. -- nick From claw at kanga.nu Wed May 23 06:55:17 2001 From: claw at kanga.nu (J C Lawrence) Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 21:55:17 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Received headers In-Reply-To: Message from Nick Seidenman of "Tue, 22 May 2001 20:24:43 EDT." References: Message-ID: <20587.990593717@kanga.nu> On Tue, 22 May 2001 20:24:43 -0400 (EDT) Nick Seidenman wrote: > Is it possible to have mailman pass Received: (or any other) > headers through? If so, how? Mailman does not fiddle with headers it doesn't need to to fulfill its functions. You're Received: headers are safe. -- J C Lawrence claw at kanga.nu ---------(*) http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/ The pressure to survive and rhetoric may make strange bedfellows From claw at kanga.nu Wed May 23 05:18:58 2001 From: claw at kanga.nu (J C Lawrence) Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 20:18:58 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman as bulk mailer.. variables in body? In-Reply-To: Message from Erik of "Tue, 22 May 2001 13:57:34 PDT." References: Message-ID: <19706.990587938@kanga.nu> On Tue, 22 May 2001 13:57:34 -0700 (PDT) eparker wrote: > I'm going to try and use Mailman as a bulk mailer, to send out > only about 250k Emails.. Mailman is really not the tool for this. What you could do however is use Mailman to generate the MTA spool entries and then use Exim as the MTA with a filter installed that does the mailmerge at the point and time of delivery. This is actually not that difficult to do (tho fiddly to debug/test). The Exim/VERP guys are doing something very like this IIRC. > Does anyone have a preferred method of sending dynamic spam out? > (And just so everyone knows, it's not really spam, it's a > newsletter our customers signed up for) Good. -- J C Lawrence claw at kanga.nu ---------(*) http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/ The pressure to survive and rhetoric may make strange bedfellows From jakes at leet.org Wed May 23 08:35:06 2001 From: jakes at leet.org (David Jacobson) Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 08:35:06 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] From address in mailman Message-ID: <20010523083506.D4149@leet.org> Hi all, I got a quick question, when mailing to a list it then says in the From header "From listname-whatever at hostname on behalf of user at that-emailed-thelist.com" Now I need it to basically just say From the USER that emailed the list and not from listname on behalf of user. eg if I mail the list it must say from jakes at leet.org and nothing else. Please if somebody could tell me how to do this it'd be greatly appreciated, please reply to me off the list. -- David Jacobson Linux Administrator ENSQUARED Tel: +27 11 788 8445 Fax: +27 11 405 6424 Cell: +27 83 235 0760 Visit us @ : www.ensquared.com From devdas at worldgatein.net Wed May 23 09:04:37 2001 From: devdas at worldgatein.net (Devdas Bhagat) Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 12:34:37 +0530 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Getting mailman to deliver with FQDN Message-ID: <0105231238030H.16093@office.interoffice> I'm running Mailman with postfix. I got the system setup ok, but mailman is sending its confirmatory messages with the From as localhost at localdomain. Is there any way other than changing /etc/hosts entries to get it to send from the correct FQDN? TIA, (BTW, this is my FP ;)) Devdas Bhagat From Nigel.Metheringham at InTechnology.co.uk Wed May 23 09:32:33 2001 From: Nigel.Metheringham at InTechnology.co.uk (Nigel Metheringham) Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 08:32:33 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman as bulk mailer.. variables in body? In-Reply-To: Message from J C Lawrence of "Tue, 22 May 2001 20:18:58 PDT." <19706.990587938@kanga.nu> Message-ID: claw at kanga.nu said: > Mailman is really not the tool for this. Definitely.... > What you could do however is use Mailman to generate the MTA spool > entries and then use Exim as the MTA with a filter installed that does > the mailmerge at the point and time of delivery. This is actually not > that difficult to do (tho fiddly to debug/test). The Exim/VERP guys > are doing something very like this IIRC. You don't need to hack the body when doing VERP, so the typical VERP config would not be suitable for this. You *could* do it with exim, but its probably a case of additional pain for not much gain. I would personally do this using a small (I would guess 30-50 lines max) perl script (sorry Barry - old habits die hard and I have all the stuff to do this sitting in my perl toolbox). You have one input file with the list of addresses and any other replaceable variables, the other input file would have the message template. The script would read the control file a chunk at a time and apply it to the template and send the output to the MTA. The HTML::Template (will do other text based stuff), and the Mail tools packages will do all the work (or make the template include the SMTP commands to and just shove all the output to "sendmail -bS" (BSMTP handling). Nigel. -- [ Nigel Metheringham Nigel.Metheringham at InTechnology.co.uk ] [ Phone: +44 1423 850000 Fax +44 1423 858866 ] [ - Comments in this message are my own and not ITO opinion/policy - ] [ ----- Security is not an add-on -- security is a way of life ----- ] From hwg at quaestor.hu Wed May 23 09:56:12 2001 From: hwg at quaestor.hu (Horvath Gabor (hwg)) Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 09:56:12 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to remove/stop posts already sent to the list? Message-ID: <01C0E36E.9A124450@quake.rulez.quaestor.hu> HG> I accidentally posted to my list (Mailman 1.1) 10 copies of a HG> message. Anybody else remember how Mailman 1.1 worked? ;} [hwg] okay, it's old, but how does it work in newer versions? I need a clue how I can remove messages that the list began to send. Or in another way, what would you (as a mailman admin) do, if your messanger got crazy, and posted ten copies of your message to a list? hwg From ipasztor at gw.grafx.ro Wed May 23 19:03:17 2001 From: ipasztor at gw.grafx.ro (Istvan Pasztor) Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 13:03:17 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Mailman-Users] subscribe not working (newby) Message-ID: Hi Members! I have installed first time mailman. It seems to be working, but the subscribe isn't really working. When I'm accessing www.myyyyssserver.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/test and I made the subscribeing steps, seems to be all Ok. But when I'm accessing the www.myyyyssserver.com/mailman/admin.cgi/test page and viewing the subscribed members, The subscribed e-mail address isn't appear in the list. The Big Question: WHY :)? Thanks :) Istvan -- From mailman at RobertJShepherd.com Wed May 23 13:12:56 2001 From: mailman at RobertJShepherd.com (Robert J Shepherd) Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 12:12:56 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Users] subscribe not working (newby) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi all I've searched through months of archives and I can't find the answer to this so I appeal to you for help. We're running a dozen Mailman lists on one server (Red Hat/Apache/Sendmail) and they're all fine except one, let's call it 'thelist', for which 3 or 4 times a day we get the following error message:- ----------------------------------- Traceback (innermost last): File "/home/mailman/cron/senddigests", line 65, in ? main() File "/home/mailman/cron/senddigests", line 40, in main mlist = MailList.MailList(listname, lock=0) File "/home/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 79, in __init__ self.Load() File "/home/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 891, in Load dict, e = self.__load(dbfile) File "/home/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 868, in __load fp = open(dbfile) IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied: '/home/mailman/lists/thelist/config.db' ----------------------------------- This suggests a perms problem but we've checked them over and over. They pass checkperms and they're exactly the same as all the other lists. We considered it might be the fault for which Mailman 2.0.4 was issued, except that we're running Python 2.0, not 2.1, and as I understand it, the fix is only for Python 2.1 so I'm rather wary about upgrading Mailman. Can anyone help please? TIA Robert From Mailman at RobertJShepherd.com Wed May 23 13:20:10 2001 From: Mailman at RobertJShepherd.com (Robert J Shepherd) Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 12:20:10 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Permission Denied In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Sorry ... I should add that the error isn't just for the senddigests cron. Here's two others, which suggest the error happens with every (or nearly every) use of config.db:- ----------------------------------- Traceback (innermost last): File "/home/mailman/cron/nightly_gzip", line 146, in ? main() File "/home/mailman/cron/nightly_gzip", line 102, in main mlist = MailList.MailList(name, lock=0) File "/home/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 79, in __init__ self.Load() File "/home/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 891, in Load dict, e = self.__load(dbfile) File "/home/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 868, in __load fp = open(dbfile) IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied: '/home/mailman/lists/bnmlist/config.db' ----------------------------------- and ----------------------------------- Traceback (innermost last): File "/home/mailman/cron/checkdbs", line 92, in ? main() File "/home/mailman/cron/checkdbs", line 41, in main mlist = MailList.MailList(name) File "/home/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 77, in __init__ self.Lock() File "/home/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 1342, in Lock self.Load() File "/home/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 891, in Load dict, e = self.__load(dbfile) File "/home/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 868, in __load fp = open(dbfile) IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied: '/home/mailman/lists/bnmlist/config.db' ----------------------------------- --- original message --- Hi all I've searched through months of archives and I can't find the answer to this so I appeal to you for help. We're running a dozen Mailman lists on one server (Red Hat/Apache/Sendmail) and they're all fine except one, let's call it 'thelist', for which 3 or 4 times a day we get the following error message:- ----------------------------------- Traceback (innermost last): File "/home/mailman/cron/senddigests", line 65, in ? main() File "/home/mailman/cron/senddigests", line 40, in main mlist = MailList.MailList(listname, lock=0) File "/home/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 79, in __init__ self.Load() File "/home/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 891, in Load dict, e = self.__load(dbfile) File "/home/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 868, in __load fp = open(dbfile) IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied: '/home/mailman/lists/thelist/config.db' ----------------------------------- This suggests a perms problem but we've checked them over and over. They pass checkperms and they're exactly the same as all the other lists. We considered it might be the fault for which Mailman 2.0.4 was issued, except that we're running Python 2.0, not 2.1, and as I understand it, the fix is only for Python 2.1 so I'm rather wary about upgrading Mailman. Can anyone help please? TIA Robert From kp at balu.klingholz.de Wed May 23 14:18:54 2001 From: kp at balu.klingholz.de (Kaspar Klingholz) Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 12:18:54 +0000 Subject: [Mailman-Users] explicit adress reply, sender adress Message-ID: <3B0BAAAE.F04AD032@balu.klingholz.de> hello, after installing mailman (2.0, suse 7.1) the first time i encounter some problems. testlist at kaa.klingholz.de lives on a machine that is known under the obove adress (public ip) to the world and under kaa.localnet with a 'privat-ip' to our local network. DEFAULT_HOST_NAME is set to kaa.klingholz.de explicit reply-to is set to testlist at kaa.klingholz.de and selected but: when mails are sent the header-fields To: Sender: Errors-To: Reply-To: contain adresses with '@kaa.localnet', the local name while all other adresses show the wanted '@kaa.klingholz.de' obviously a reply to the list from the 'outer space' is not possible. what to do? regards kaspar -- Kaspar P. Klingholz mailto:kp at balu.klingholz.de From barry at digicool.com Wed May 23 16:21:52 2001 From: barry at digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw) Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 10:21:52 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] searching the archives References: <0a5e01c0e242$7781d450$3c0a0a0a@thurston> <15114.38839.56566.751155@anthem.wooz.org> Message-ID: <15115.51072.520922.995585@anthem.wooz.org> >>>>> "BAW" == Barry A Warsaw writes: BAW> When it's re-enabled, http://www.python.org/search will be BAW> the URL you want. Not quite. Searching of the archives is only available through the advanced search page at http://search.python.org/ You probably want to enable searching the "Mailing List Archives" and turn off all other collections. -Barry From barry at digicool.com Wed May 23 16:27:26 2001 From: barry at digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw) Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 10:27:26 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman as bulk mailer.. variables in body? References: <19706.990587938@kanga.nu> Message-ID: <15115.51406.665192.633336@anthem.wooz.org> >>>>> "NM" == Nigel Metheringham >>>>> writes: NM> I would personally do this using a small (I would guess 30-50 NM> lines max) perl script (sorry Barry - old habits die hard and NM> I have all the stuff to do this sitting in my perl toolbox). No problem! I think its fine when people like to bone up on their touch typing skills. I'd probably do it in a 3-7 line Python program... :) :) -Barry From wiler at ucpri.org Wed May 23 12:14:50 2001 From: wiler at ucpri.org (Jack Mendez) Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 10:14:50 +0000 Subject: [Mailman-Users] web and mail services on two different machines. Message-ID: hi there. i am trying to get mailman up and running. what i have are two different machines, one which hosts mail services, and the other web services. both are on the same network, sode by side. i ned to get the list management services available via the web, to work with the webserver, and the mailserver process the incoming and outgoing mail. could someone please help? From barry at digicool.com Wed May 23 16:31:13 2001 From: barry at digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw) Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 10:31:13 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to remove/stop posts already sent to the list? References: <01C0E36E.9A124450@quake.rulez.quaestor.hu> Message-ID: <15115.51633.377479.887998@anthem.wooz.org> >>>>> "HG" == Horvath Gabor writes: HG> [hwg] okay, it's old, but how does it work in newer versions? HG> I need a clue how I can remove messages that the list began to HG> send. Or in another way, what would you (as a mailman admin) HG> do, if your messanger got crazy, and posted ten copies of your HG> message to a list? Mailman 2.0 is much saner here, because all the messages sit in the qfiles directory waiting to be processed by qrunner. In MM2.0 you'd simply find the offending .db/.msg files in qfiles and delete them. MM2.1 will be even easier because all messages destined for the MTA will be sitting in the qfiles/out directory, sequestered from other queues (such as the incoming queue, the archiver queue, etc.). IIRC Mailman 1.1 set some of the messages directly to the MTA without queuing them. But I really honestly don't remember (it was such a mess, I was better off evicting those memories from my cache :). -Barry From matthew.malthouse at guardian.co.uk Wed May 23 17:07:34 2001 From: matthew.malthouse at guardian.co.uk (matthew.malthouse at guardian.co.uk) Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 16:07:34 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Load balancing over two machines Message-ID: <80256A55.0054C598.00@ldnmta01.guardian.co.uk> After spending a tedious afternoon looking through the mailman archives I've found this question asked twice but never replied to (at least on the list). At the moment I have a solitary machine running mailman. Bar the long wish-list all is fine. However in the new infrastructure about to be implemented I have two identical machines dedicated to list handling. At the moment the idea is to duplicate everything and keep in sync ewither by having the appropriate directories as NFS mounts from a 3rd machine or with rdist. One machine will be in service the other resting idle as what will essentially be a "hot" spare. In case the first fails reconfigure the IP address of the second, initiate mailman and whach it take over. All well and fine. But it rather offends me to have a perfectly good machine sitting idle doing nothing but awaiting the day. So is there an effective way of load balancing across two machines? Matthew From maxnkj at maxscope.com Mon May 21 04:26:39 2001 From: maxnkj at maxscope.com (nakajima) Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 11:26:39 +0900 Subject: [Mailman-Users] quetion Message-ID: <000301c0e19e$9a5de120$03067dd3@sotec171> hello, i just wondering how much the price is,if i publish news letter . nakajma From david at members.iteachnet.com Mon May 21 05:20:34 2001 From: david at members.iteachnet.com (David M. Bucknell) Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 03:20:34 -0000 Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to activate list? Message-ID: <200105210320.UAA03581@members.iteachnet.com> Sorry for this basic question: After I ran the new list script and changed permissions to mailman.mailman, I see that the list I created is still not working. Can someone please tell me what has to be done? Thanks, David -- David M. Bucknell http://www.iteachnet.org/~david ITeachNet: http://www.iteachnet.org International Education Daily http://members.iteachnet.org/webzine/ From LTaylor at cohenesrey.com Mon May 21 16:11:45 2001 From: LTaylor at cohenesrey.com (Lindsey Taylor) Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 09:11:45 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] list server Message-ID: My name is Lindsey Taylor and I am with Cohen-Esrey Real Estate in Kansas City, Mo. We are looking at purchasing a listserv for several bulk mail lists that we currently have. We have five lists, one with 5,000 recipients. I was browsing your web page and am interested in the listserv there. I have a few questions, if you wouldn't mind answering...Does it support HTML? Does it confirm the number of people that have received the message? Do we get to schedule how often and when it goes out? What is the pricing info. and how often does it have to be renewed? Does it run on IIS 4.0? What are the hardware requirments? (Like does it need a separate server) and has it received any awards? (or who has it been tested by). Also, how many people can one list support? Thanks so much for your help! From donal.hunt at dcu.ie Mon May 21 18:27:41 2001 From: donal.hunt at dcu.ie (Donal Hunt) Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 17:27:41 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Using alternate password repository? References: Message-ID: <3B0941FD.DEF3A425@dcu.ie> I'm currently working on a college project to migrate mailman data to ldap. Authentication is very easily done - it's 5/6 lines afair. I used the python-ldap module to integrate the ldap routines. Let me know if you want a look at the code... Donal ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Subject: [Mailman-Users] Using alternate password repository? > Date: Sun, 20 May 2001 22:05:39 -0400 > From: Tom Emerson > To: mailman-users at python.org > > I am maintaining several mailing lists associated with an organization > that includes password-protected access to certain areas of its > website. I do not like the idea of having separate passwords for > mailing list preferences access and website access. > > Ideally both the http server and Mailman would share authentication > information. This can be accomplished by either writing an Apache > authentication module that makes use of the Mailman information (but > which if the user belongs to multiple lists?) or Mailman authenticates > against another mechanism that is used by the server, such as a MySQL > table. > > My questions, then, are these: > > 1) Has anyone else handled this? > > 2) If so, how? > > 3) If not, what would the Mailman intelligencia recommend? > > I have not spent a lot of time reading the Mailman code, but it would > seem that it would be relatively straightforward to write a > replacement to SecurityManager.py that authenticates against something > other than the marshalled dictionary. > > Thanks in advance, > > -tree > > -- > Tom Emerson Basis Technology Corp. > Sr. Sinostringologist http://www.basistech.com > "Beware the lollipop of mediocrity: lick it once and you suck forever" > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------  From jakes at leet.org Wed May 23 08:11:27 2001 From: jakes at leet.org (David Jacobson) Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 08:11:27 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] From Address in mailman Message-ID: <20010523081127.B4149@leet.org> Hi all, I got a quick question, when mailing to a list it then says in the From header "From listname-whatever at hostname on behalf of user at that-emailed-thelist.com" Now I need it to basically just say From the USER that emailed the list and not from listname on behalf of user. eg if I mail the list it must say from jakes at leet.org and nothing else. Please if somebody could tell me how to do this it'd be greatly appreciated, please reply to me off the list. Regards, Dave. -- David Jacobson Linux Administrator ENSQUARED Tel: +27 11 788 8445 Fax: +27 11 405 6424 Cell: +27 83 235 0760 Visit us @ : www.ensquared.com From drico at cooletude.com Wed May 23 17:35:31 2001 From: drico at cooletude.com (drico) Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 17:35:31 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Newbie : Apache config Message-ID: <3B0BD8C3.DB0A6003@cooletude.com> Hi, I'm trying to make mailman work with apache on my debian system, but as the cgi-bin files have no extension, i cannot set up an handler to care for it. How did you setup that? May someone show me some config files? (with exim would be luxury :) ). Tks Cedric Perronnet From barry at digicool.com Wed May 23 18:16:14 2001 From: barry at digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw) Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 12:16:14 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Permission Denied References: Message-ID: <15115.57934.218709.194813@anthem.wooz.org> >>>>> "RJS" == Robert J Shepherd writes: RJS> Sorry ... I should add that the error isn't just for the RJS> senddigests cron. Here's two others, which suggest the error RJS> happens with every (or nearly every) use of config.db:- Are the errors only happening with the cron jobs? If so, then perhaps you're not executing them under the mailman user and mailman group. Perhaps you installed them in some other user's crontab, and that user isn't in the mailman group. Mailman's permissions are based on group ownership, so you want to be sure that the files are rw for group mailman and that any process that touches files lives in group mailman. And no, I don't think upgrading will fix your problem, although I still recommend it. Mailman 2.0.4 stops some annoying warnings when run under Python 2.1. The Mailman 2.0.5 fix is a little more important if you're running Python 2.0 since that will fix stale lock turds that can occur when a user hits the stop button on their browser. -Barry From jakes at leet.org Wed May 23 18:23:33 2001 From: jakes at leet.org (David Jacobson) Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 18:23:33 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] adding attachment and footer dissapearing Message-ID: <20010523182332.E4149@leet.org> Hi all Got a quick question, I add an attachment to my e-mail I send to the list and then the footer dissapears! Is this a bug in mailman? How can I fix this? Regards David. -- David Jacobson Linux Administrator ENSQUARED Tel: +27 11 788 8445 Fax: +27 11 405 6424 Cell: +27 83 235 0760 Visit us @ : www.ensquared.com From nb at thinkcoach.com Wed May 23 18:35:02 2001 From: nb at thinkcoach.com (Norbert Bollow) Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 18:35:02 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] quetion In-Reply-To: <000301c0e19e$9a5de120$03067dd3@sotec171> (maxnkj@maxscope.com) References: <000301c0e19e$9a5de120$03067dd3@sotec171> Message-ID: <200105231635.f4NGZ2p00887@quill> > hello, > i just wondering how much the price is,if i publish news letter . If you have a server on the internet anyway and you're capable of installing Mailman yourself, it costs you only a little time. If you have a server and want me to install qmail and Mailman for you, I can do that for you (the exact price depends on how many other things are currently using email that need to be changed for the migration from sendmail to qmail). Alternatively, I could host your mailing list for you (you'd get a dedicated Mailman installation on a virtual domain of your own) for USD30 set-up plus USD15/month for up to 1GB/month of data transfer. (It'll be hard to beat that limit with a newsletter.) This offer is valid only for lists that are not questionable in any way from an ethical perspective, in particular I have zero tolerance for spamming. Greetings, Norbert. -- Norbert Bollow, Weidlistr.18, CH-8624 Gruet (near Zurich, Switzerland) Tel +41 1 972 20 59 Fax +41 1 972 20 69 nb at freedevelopers.net > Currently recruiting: Perl programmers and JSP (JavaServer Pages) > programmers for the "Traffic Building Bulletin Board System" project > at FreeDevelopers.Net ------------------> See http://tbbbs.org From peter.bates at lshtm.ac.uk Wed May 23 19:18:11 2001 From: peter.bates at lshtm.ac.uk (Peter Bates) Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 18:18:11 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem with moving lists... Message-ID: Hello all... I've had the following problem with moving an old list from a version of Mailman (2.x) to a recent (mailman-2.0beta5) ... When I go to the admin page for a list I have moved (I've only moved one!)... I get: (Bug in Mailman version 2.0beta5 We're sorry, we hit a bug!) Traceback: Traceback (innermost last): File "/usr/share/mailman/scripts/driver", line 96, in run_main main() File "/usr/share/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/admin.py", line 136, in main mlist.Save() File "/usr/share/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 851, in Save self.CheckHTMLArchiveDir() File "/usr/share/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/Archiver.py", line 264, in CheckHTMLArchiveDir makelink(privdir, pubdir) File "/usr/share/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/Archiver.py", line 42, in makelink os.symlink(old, new) OSError: [Errno 13] Permission denied This is obviously just a problem with creating a file or symlink involving permissions, but not understanding mailman, or Python to any degree, I don't understand what is happening here. The actual piper-mail archives are fine, i.e. I can access /pipermail/listname/, and also get /listinfo/listname (listname is web-design in this case), but it only seems to be the admin interface that is broken after my attempt at moving the config of the 'old' mailman lists to the new box... Can anyone suggest where my problem lies? Thanks! From captain_trek at yahoo.com Thu May 24 07:02:01 2001 From: captain_trek at yahoo.com (Zimmer) Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 22:02:01 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Mailman-Users] GID Problems, big headache Message-ID: <20010524050201.9387.qmail@web10105.mail.yahoo.com> Ok, i have a problem with my GID setting. This is the error I get when I try to post to a list... ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors ----- "|/home/mailman/mail/wrapper post falcov" (expanded from: ) ----- Transcript of session follows ----- Failure to exec script. WANTED gid 12, GOT gid 2. (Reconfigure to take 2?) 554 "|/home/mailman/mail/wrapper post falcov"... unknown mailer error 2 I've gone through this email threads and attempted everyone elses ways, went through FAQ's help files, still nothing. Ive set the --with-mail-gid=2 (daemon), 12 (mail), 104 (mailman), 51 (postfix), and 65534 (nobody) after recompiling it gave me the same error for every time... Failure to exec script. WANTED gid 12, GOT gid 2. (Reconfigure to take 2?) 554 "|/home/mailman/mail/wrapper post falcov"... unknown mailer error 2 I am totally lost as to what to do next if anyone could help me out it would be greatly appreciated Thanks :0) ===== TuX.AfterNET.org mIRC Global Operator AfterNET Public Radio http://www.afternet.org/pr/apr __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ From mads at cit.com.br Thu May 24 16:28:13 2001 From: mads at cit.com.br (Mads Rasmussen) Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 11:28:13 -0300 Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman 2.0.5 on RH 7.1 - problems with sendmail Message-ID: <0105241128130Z.01505@kennedy.cit.com.br> Hi there, I am having some strange problems. I previeous installed on RH 6.1 with no problems what so ever and when I tried recently on RH 7.1 nothing works. I got this error (see below) and tried to configure --with-mail-gid=2 but then nothing works, not even error messages. This could be a sendmail problem, but I am not using smrsh so I don't see why it complains. Regards Mads --- from kennedy.cit [192.168.1.131] ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors ----- "|/home/mailman/mail/wrapper post test" (reason: 2) (expanded from: ) ----- Transcript of session follows ----- Failure to exec script. WANTED gid 12, GOT gid 2. (Reconfigure to take 2?) 554 5.3.0 "|/home/mailman/mail/wrapper post test"... unknown mailer error 2 From mads at cit.com.br Thu May 24 16:28:13 2001 From: mads at cit.com.br (Mads Rasmussen) Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 11:28:13 -0300 Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman 2.0.5 on RH 7.1 - problems with sendmail Message-ID: <0105241128130Z.01505@kennedy.cit.com.br> Hi there, I am having some strange problems. I previeous installed on RH 6.1 with no problems what so ever and when I tried recently on RH 7.1 nothing works. I got this error (see below) and tried to configure --with-mail-gid=2 but then nothing works, not even error messages. This could be a sendmail problem, but I am not using smrsh so I don't see why it complains. Regards Mads --- from kennedy.cit [192.168.1.131] ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors ----- "|/home/mailman/mail/wrapper post test" (reason: 2) (expanded from: ) ----- Transcript of session follows ----- Failure to exec script. WANTED gid 12, GOT gid 2. (Reconfigure to take 2?) 554 5.3.0 "|/home/mailman/mail/wrapper post test"... unknown mailer error 2 From vijay at buydeal.com Thu May 24 16:55:34 2001 From: vijay at buydeal.com (vijay) Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 20:25:34 +0530 Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman 2.0.5 on RH 7.1 - problems with sendmail In-Reply-To: <0105241128130Z.01505@kennedy.cit.com.br> Message-ID: <200105241453.f4OErtt01246@sun01314.dn.net> This is highly system dependent and you must get this right, because the group id is compiled into the mail wrapper program for added security. On systems using sendmail, the sendmail.cf configuration file designates the group id of sendmail processes using the "DefaultUser" option. (If commented out, it still may be indicating the default...) check the option #O DefaultUser=mailnull uncomment it and give mailman as defaultuser. O DefaultUser=mailman Vijay -----Original Message----- From: Mads Rasmussen To: mailman-users at python.org Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 11:28:13 -0300 Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman 2.0.5 on RH 7.1 - problems with sendmail > > Hi there, > > I am having some strange problems. I previeous installed on RH 6.1 with > no > problems what so ever and when I tried recently on RH 7.1 nothing > works. > > I got this error (see below) and tried to configure --with-mail-gid=2 > but > then nothing works, not even error messages. > > This could be a sendmail problem, but I am not using smrsh so I don't > see why > it complains. > > Regards > > Mads > --- > from kennedy.cit [192.168.1.131] > > ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors ----- > "|/home/mailman/mail/wrapper post test" > (reason: 2) > (expanded from: ) > > ----- Transcript of session follows ----- > Failure to exec script. WANTED gid 12, GOT gid 2. (Reconfigure to take > 2?) > 554 5.3.0 "|/home/mailman/mail/wrapper post test"... unknown mailer > error 2 > > ------------------------------------------------------ > Mailman-Users maillist - Mailman-Users at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users > From gv_indian at yahoo.com Thu May 24 17:09:03 2001 From: gv_indian at yahoo.com (gv venkateswaran) Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 08:09:03 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Mailman-Users] make install error Message-ID: <20010524150903.25111.qmail@web5302.mail.yahoo.com> I have installed the prerequisites properly and I checked ... working... What this error shows? #make install Compiling /home/mailman//Mailman/pythonlib/tempfile.py ... Compiling /home/mailman//Mailman/versions.py ... Traceback (innermost last): File "bin/update", line 32, in ? from Mailman import MailList File "/home/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 41, in ? from Mailman.ListAdmin import ListAdmin File "/home/mailman/Mailman/ListAdmin.py", line 33, in ? from Mailman import Message File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Message.py", line 30, in ? import sha ImportError: No module named sha __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ From mads at cit.com.br Thu May 24 17:16:22 2001 From: mads at cit.com.br (Mads Rasmussen) Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 12:16:22 -0300 Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman 2.0.5 on RH 7.1 In-Reply-To: <200105241453.f4OErtt01246@sun01314.dn.net> References: <200105241453.f4OErtt01246@sun01314.dn.net> Message-ID: <0105241216221B.01505@kennedy.cit.com.br> OK I changed the default user in sendmail and now when creating a list, at least I am able to receive info about the list and I can also subscribe myself to the list. However I cannot send mail to the list, sendmail doesn't complain though. I just doesn't receive anything back. May 24 12:10:42 einstein sendmail[26282]: f4OFAgs26282: from=, size=344, class=0, nrcpts=1, msgid=<0105241208441A.01505 at kennedy.cit.com.br>, proto=SMTP, daemon=MTA, relay=kennedy.cit [192.168.1.131] May 24 12:10:43 einstein sendmail[26283]: f4OFAgs26282: to="|/home/mailman/mail/wrapper post check", ctladdr= (826/0), delay=00:00:01, xdelay=00:00:01, mailer=prog, pri=30016, dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent My prog entrance in sendmail.cf Mprog, P=/bin/sh, F=lsDFMoqeu9, S=EnvFromL/HdrFromL, R=EnvToL/HdrToL, D=$z:/, T=X-Unix/X-Unix/X-Unix, A=sh -c $u Any ideas? Another problem is that it when creating a new list it doesn't create the archive files properly: ls -al /home/mailman/archives/ total 16 drwxrwsr-x 4 mailman mailman 4096 May 23 15:39 . drwxrwsr-x 18 mailman mailman 4096 May 23 15:39 .. drwxrws--x 6 mailman mailman 4096 May 24 12:06 private drwxrwsr-x 2 mailman mailman 4096 May 24 12:06 public ls -al /home/mailman/archives/public/ total 8 drwxrwsr-x 2 mailman mailman 4096 May 24 12:06 . drwxrwsr-x 4 mailman mailman 4096 May 23 15:39 .. lrwxrwxrwx 1 root mailman 36 May 24 11:56 check -> /home/mailman/archives/private/check lrwxrwxrwx 1 root mailman 41 May 24 11:56 check.mbox -> /home/mailman/archives/private/check.mbox ls -al /home/mailman/archives/private/ total 24 drwxrws--x 6 mailman mailman 4096 May 24 12:06 . drwxrwsr-x 4 mailman mailman 4096 May 23 15:39 .. drwxrwsr-x 2 root mailman 4096 May 24 11:56 check.mbox It creates a link check to /home/mailman/archives/private/check but that file doesn't exist. What's going on? /home/mailman/bin/check_perms doesn't give any errors Regards, Mads From arif at welfarelaw.org Thu May 24 18:01:35 2001 From: arif at welfarelaw.org (Arif Mamdani) Date: 24 May 2001 12:01:35 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] accidentally altered base URL in Web admin page, now web interface is broken.... help! Message-ID: <990720101.1243.0.camel@localhost.localdomain> Hey everyone, I think the subject says it all. Someone accidentally changed the base URL to something incorrect on a list's admin page, hit the submit changes button, and succeeded in breaking the web admin page. So my question is: how do I fix this given that the web interface page is broken, what are the command line commands I need to get it working again? thanks, -arif From mads at cit.com.br Thu May 24 21:03:43 2001 From: mads at cit.com.br (Mads Rasmussen) Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 16:03:43 -0300 Subject: [Mailman-Users] archives not accessable from web Message-ID: <0105241603431I.01505@kennedy.cit.com.br> This probably is influenced by the fact that mailman doesn't create the archives/public and private files right. It only creates the .mbox dirs in the private dir and makes the link to a nonexisting dir in the public dir. But even if I try to make the dir myself I cannot access it from the web I insert in httpd.conf Alias /pipermail/ "/home/mailman/archives/public/" Options FollowSymLinks Order allow,deny Allow from all Have anyone experienced this aswell? Regards, Mads ps. I am running RH 7.1 w/ kernel 2.4.2 and sendmail 8.11.3 - I installed mailman-2.0.5 from source From scottkj at qwest.net Thu May 24 22:27:11 2001 From: scottkj at qwest.net (Scott K . Johnson) Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 15:27:11 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Subscription Process? Message-ID: <20010524152710.H54191@ausar> Hello all, I'm in the process of setting up my first mailman list. When a user subscribes, and confirms their subscription request, nothing seems to happen. (I'm expecting a welcome to "listname" type of message to be delivered to the user...) I've got "confirm" set as the only step required for subscription. If I manually add them to the list, it works fine. I'm running a 4.3-Stable FreeBSD box with standard sendmail (with a symlink to wrapper set up for smrsh's use). In /usr/local/mailman/logs/subscribe I see: May 24 13:35:35 2001 (31635) pumpers: pending pumpers at uswest.net 209.180.20.131 Nothing in errors and a seemingly unalarming line in smtp: May 24 13:35:35 2001 (31635) smtp for 1 recips, completed in 0.281 seconds When I check for "pending administrative requests" there is nothing there. I've probably got something very simple misconfigured... Any help out there? Thanks! From techgrrl at beeze.com Fri May 25 00:05:31 2001 From: techgrrl at beeze.com (Sarah K. Miller) Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 15:05:31 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to compile all addresses subbed to all lists on a system Message-ID: <026701c0e49d$a69e6250$0200010a@home.beeze.com> Have any of you found an automated way to slurp all of the addresses off of all the lists on your system and then subscribe them to another list on the system? I know that I could simply subscribe all of the lists to a master list, but that option has turned into a nightmare for us for a variety of reasons. Thanks for any help! -- Sarah From mrbill at mrbill.net Fri May 25 00:09:29 2001 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 17:09:29 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to compile all addresses subbed to all lists on a system In-Reply-To: <026701c0e49d$a69e6250$0200010a@home.beeze.com>; from techgrrl@beeze.com on Thu, May 24, 2001 at 03:05:31PM -0700 References: <026701c0e49d$a69e6250$0200010a@home.beeze.com> Message-ID: <20010524170929.R2865@mrbill.net> On Thu, May 24, 2001 at 03:05:31PM -0700, Sarah K. Miller wrote: > Have any of you found an automated way to slurp all of the addresses off > of all the lists on your system and then subscribe them to another list > on the system? bin/list_users > /tmp/list1.txt bin/add_members /tmp/list1.txt Repeat for every list on your system. Really easy. Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill at mrbill.net Austin, TX From alex at phred.org Fri May 25 00:28:13 2001 From: alex at phred.org (alex wetmore) Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 15:28:13 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to compile all addresses subbed to all lists on a system In-Reply-To: <20010524170929.R2865@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <20010524152613.T3701-100000@phred.org> On Thu, 24 May 2001, Bill Bradford wrote: > On Thu, May 24, 2001 at 03:05:31PM -0700, Sarah K. Miller wrote: > > Have any of you found an automated way to slurp all of the addresses off > > of all the lists on your system and then subscribe them to another list > > on the system? > > bin/list_users > /tmp/list1.txt > bin/add_members /tmp/list1.txt It is list_members, not list_users. Also, I would recommend using the -n and -d options with list_members to get digested and non-digested members seperately, and then adding them seperately. It would be really nice to have a version of list_members which dumped all user properties (nomail, digest, passwd, etc) and a corresponding version of add_members that parsed it. This would be useful when copying lists between servers. alex From techgrrl at beeze.com Fri May 25 00:38:28 2001 From: techgrrl at beeze.com (Sarah K. Miller) Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 15:38:28 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to compile all addresses subbed to all lists on a system References: <20010524152613.T3701-100000@phred.org> Message-ID: <033b01c0e4a2$415c3250$0200010a@home.beeze.com> > > bin/list_users > /tmp/list1.txt > > bin/add_members /tmp/list1.txt > > It is list_members, not list_users. Also, I would recommend using the > -n and -d options with list_members to get digested and non-digested > members seperately, and then adding them seperately. For me, the digest/non-digest part is not important. What I've got is a system announcement list that notifies all users/members when something they need to know about is going to happen. Has anybody automated this process? I want it to update everyday and I don't want to sit there and hand type the entire process for 100 lists each time .... -- Sarah From rhayden at geek.net Fri May 25 00:42:15 2001 From: rhayden at geek.net (Robert A. Hayden) Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 17:42:15 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to compile all addresses subbed to all lists on a system In-Reply-To: <033b01c0e4a2$415c3250$0200010a@home.beeze.com> Message-ID: Cron is your friend. Worst case you need to update the script when you add/remove a list. On Thu, 24 May 2001, Sarah K. Miller wrote: > > > bin/list_users > /tmp/list1.txt > > > bin/add_members /tmp/list1.txt > > > > It is list_members, not list_users. Also, I would recommend using the > > -n and -d options with list_members to get digested and non-digested > > members seperately, and then adding them seperately. > > For me, the digest/non-digest part is not important. What I've got is a system announcement list that notifies all users/members when something they need to know about is going to happen. Has anybody automated this process? I want it to update everyday and I don't want to sit there and hand type the entire process for 100 lists each time .... > > -- Sarah > > > ------------------------------------------------------ > Mailman-Users maillist - Mailman-Users at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users > From barry at digicool.com Fri May 25 01:28:26 2001 From: barry at digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw) Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 19:28:26 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] adding attachment and footer dissapearing References: <20010523182332.E4149@leet.org> Message-ID: <15117.39194.928941.666230@anthem.wooz.org> >>>>> "DJ" == David Jacobson writes: DJ> Got a quick question, I add an attachment to my e-mail I send DJ> to the list and then the footer dissapears! Is this a bug in DJ> mailman? How can I fix this? It probably didn't disappear, but I bet your mail reader isn't showing to you. Mailman 2.0.x is currently very dumb about adding headers and footers to MIME messages (i.e. it sucks :). Mailman 2.1 should do a much better job, although there are some MIME messages for which it will not add a footer or header. -Barry From barry at digicool.com Fri May 25 01:31:56 2001 From: barry at digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw) Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 19:31:56 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] make install error References: <20010524150903.25111.qmail@web5302.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <15117.39404.603946.703916@anthem.wooz.org> >>>>> "gv" == gv venkateswaran writes: gv> I have installed the prerequisites properly and I gv> checked ... working... gv> What this error shows? | ImportError: No module named sha What version of Python are you using? It doesn't have the sha module enabled. Depending on the Python version, you may have to edit Python's Modules/Setup file to enable it. It should be auto-enabled in Python 2.1. -Barry From barry at digicool.com Fri May 25 01:35:18 2001 From: barry at digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw) Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 19:35:18 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] accidentally altered base URL in Web admin page, now web interface is broken.... help! References: <990720101.1243.0.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <15117.39606.800897.240682@anthem.wooz.org> >>>>> "AM" == Arif Mamdani writes: AM> Hey everyone, I think the subject says it all. Someone AM> accidentally changed the base URL to something incorrect on a AM> list's admin page, hit the submit changes button, and AM> succeeded in breaking the web admin page. AM> So my question is: how do I fix this given that the web AM> interface page is broken, what are the command line commands I AM> need to get it working again? You must use the command line script bin/withlist to fix this. Some thing like the following should do the trick: -------------------- snip snip -------------------- % python -i bin/withlist -l mylist Loading list mylist (locked) >>> m.web_page_url 'http://www.mysite.com/broken-path/' >>> m.web_page_url = 'http://www.mysite.com/mailman/' >>> m.Save() >>> ^D Unlocking (but not saving) list: mylist Finalizing -------------------- snip snip -------------------- Note that in Mailman 2.1, you will not be able to change web_page_url (the attribute in question) via the web, so this kind of breakage -- which can happen much too easily, and is rarely needed by list admins -- will be avoided. -Barry From haroldp at sierraweb.com Fri May 25 02:22:21 2001 From: haroldp at sierraweb.com (Harold Paulson) Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 17:22:21 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] reverse lookups on localhost Message-ID: Hey, I know this has been talked about a few times, but I'm not sure I've ever seen a solution... I'm using Mailman and Sendmail. When Mailman gets a message in queue going to a broken MX, it can REALLY wedge things up. It looks like qrunner just sits there waiting for the DNS to come back until it finally times out. It can clog things up to the point that messages farther back in the queue never get a chance. Is there a reasonable way to get Sendmail to accept messages from qrunner without reversing them? Would turning on the threaded qrunner get around this (whether or not it's faster in general I don't care)? What is the recommended way to pull bad addresses out of queue? I can find the right files in 'qfiles' easily enough, but aren't these messages going to many people? Thanks. - H -- Harold Paulson Sierra Web Design haroldp at sierraweb.com http://www.sierraweb.com VOICE: 775.833.9500 FAX: 810.314.1517 From KKASPER at nystrs.state.ny.us Thu May 24 23:18:04 2001 From: KKASPER at nystrs.state.ny.us (KKASPER at nystrs.state.ny.us) Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 17:18:04 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Attachments via Mailman Message-ID: <81CEAE0410CBD11191D90001FAF81F2101676315@host16-9.9.nystrs.state.ny.us> When I send a message through Mailman with an attachment, the message goes into the archive but the group never gets the message or attachment. Is there some configuration setting that blocks the distribution of messages that contain attachments? From gv_indian at yahoo.com Fri May 25 10:03:00 2001 From: gv_indian at yahoo.com (venkateswaran) Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 09:03:00 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Users] make install error References: <20010524150903.25111.qmail@web5302.mail.yahoo.com> <15117.39404.603946.703916@anthem.wooz.org> Message-ID: <005201c0e4f1$32d05820$e20110ac@venkatesh> I have tried with pythin1.5.2 & python2.0. But same error. How to enable sha module?. In Modules/Setup there is a line sha shamodule.c. Is there anything more than this? Thanks for your reply, Venkatesh > > >>>>> "gv" == gv venkateswaran writes: > > gv> I have installed the prerequisites properly and I > gv> checked ... working... > > gv> What this error shows? > > | ImportError: No module named sha > > What version of Python are you using? It doesn't have the sha module > enabled. Depending on the Python version, you may have to edit > Python's Modules/Setup file to enable it. It should be auto-enabled > in Python 2.1. > > -Barry > > ------------------------------------------------------ > Mailman-Users maillist - Mailman-Users at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From barry at digicool.com Fri May 25 05:48:24 2001 From: barry at digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw) Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 23:48:24 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] make install error References: <20010524150903.25111.qmail@web5302.mail.yahoo.com> <15117.39404.603946.703916@anthem.wooz.org> <005201c0e4f1$32d05820$e20110ac@venkatesh> Message-ID: <15117.54792.317853.142401@anthem.wooz.org> >>>>> "v" == venkateswaran writes: v> I have tried with pythin1.5.2 & python2.0. But same error. How v> to enable sha module?. In Modules/Setup there is a line sha v> shamodule.c. Is there anything more than this? Nope, although I'm quite surprised this isn't enabled by default. In vanilla Python 2.0's Setup file, sha is enabled so it /should/ be compiled in by default. Did you uncomment the *shared* line? If so, perhaps something broke when you did a "make install" and you didn't notice it (i.e. shamodule.so got built, but not installed correctly). If *shared* is commented out, then shamodule.o should be statically linked into the Python executable. Did you run "make tests" when you built Python? Did you get any errors during that process? There's definitely a test_sha.py test for that module. -Barry From satyap at satya.virtualave.net Fri May 25 06:12:31 2001 From: satyap at satya.virtualave.net (Satya) Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 09:42:31 +0530 (IST) Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to compile all addresses subbed to all lists on a system In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On May 24, 2001 at 17:42, Robert A. Hayden wrote: >Cron is your friend. Worst case you need to update the script when you >add/remove a list. How about bin/list_lists ? -- Satya. US-bound grad students! For pre-apps, see "Never underestimate the bandwidth of a station wagon full of tapes hurtling down the highway." -- Andrew Tanenbaum in _Computer Networks_ From claw at kanga.nu Fri May 25 06:27:17 2001 From: claw at kanga.nu (J C Lawrence) Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 21:27:17 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] reverse lookups on localhost In-Reply-To: Message from Harold Paulson of "Thu, 24 May 2001 17:22:21 PDT." References: Message-ID: <21143.990764837@kanga.nu> On Thu, 24 May 2001 17:22:21 -0700 Harold Paulson wrote: > I'm using Mailman and Sendmail. When Mailman gets a message in > queue going to a broken MX, it can REALLY wedge things up. It > looks like qrunner just sits there waiting for the DNS to come > back until it finally times out. It can clog things up to the > point that messages farther back in the queue never get a chance. This has been extensively discussed on the list. There are two answers: 1) Change MTAs. (recommended) 2) You can reconfigure Sendmail (see list archives) however you lose slam filtering capabilities (cf Chuq's statements). Suggest: Look into Exim or Postfix instead. Sendmail is not worth your time. -- J C Lawrence claw at kanga.nu ---------(*) http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/ The pressure to survive and rhetoric may make strange bedfellows From vijay at buydeal.com Fri May 25 06:39:44 2001 From: vijay at buydeal.com (vijay) Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 10:09:44 +0530 Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman 2.0.5 on RH 7.1 In-Reply-To: <0105241216221B.01505@kennedy.cit.com.br> Message-ID: <200105250438.f4P4cTt03197@sun01314.dn.net> Check the mailman logs in /home/mailman/logs/ in that 1) error 2) post. post will give information about your posting being success or failure. and even check /home/mailman/qfiles if there are any files in your qfiles then you have to tune your mailman configuration. regarding archives you have to configure in httpd.conf. Vijay -----Original Message----- From: Mads Rasmussen To: mailman-users at python.org Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 12:16:22 -0300 Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] mailman 2.0.5 on RH 7.1 > > OK I changed the default user in sendmail and now when creating a list, > at > least I am able to receive info about the list and I can also subscribe > myself to the list. > > However I cannot send mail to the list, sendmail doesn't complain > though. I > just doesn't receive anything back. > > May 24 12:10:42 einstein sendmail[26282]: f4OFAgs26282: > from=, size=344, > class=0, nrcpts=1, msgid=<0105241208441A.01505 at kennedy.cit.com.br>, > proto=SMTP, daemon=MTA, relay=kennedy.cit [192.168.1.131] > > May 24 12:10:43 einstein sendmail[26283]: f4OFAgs26282: > to="|/home/mailman/mail/wrapper post check", > ctladdr= > (826/0), delay=00:00:01, xdelay=00:00:01, mailer=prog, pri=30016, > dsn=2.0.0, > stat=Sent > > My prog entrance in sendmail.cf > > Mprog, P=/bin/sh, F=lsDFMoqeu9, S=EnvFromL/HdrFromL, R=EnvToL/HdrToL, > D=$z:/, > T=X-Unix/X-Unix/X-Unix, > A=sh -c $u > > Any ideas? > > Another problem is that it when creating a new list it doesn't create > the > archive files properly: > > ls -al /home/mailman/archives/ > total 16 > drwxrwsr-x 4 mailman mailman 4096 May 23 15:39 . > drwxrwsr-x 18 mailman mailman 4096 May 23 15:39 .. > drwxrws--x 6 mailman mailman 4096 May 24 12:06 private > drwxrwsr-x 2 mailman mailman 4096 May 24 12:06 public > > ls -al /home/mailman/archives/public/ > total 8 > drwxrwsr-x 2 mailman mailman 4096 May 24 12:06 . > drwxrwsr-x 4 mailman mailman 4096 May 23 15:39 .. > lrwxrwxrwx 1 root mailman 36 May 24 11:56 check -> > /home/mailman/archives/private/check > lrwxrwxrwx 1 root mailman 41 May 24 11:56 check.mbox -> > /home/mailman/archives/private/check.mbox > > ls -al /home/mailman/archives/private/ > total 24 > drwxrws--x 6 mailman mailman 4096 May 24 12:06 . > drwxrwsr-x 4 mailman mailman 4096 May 23 15:39 .. > drwxrwsr-x 2 root mailman 4096 May 24 11:56 check.mbox > > It creates a link check to /home/mailman/archives/private/check but > that file > doesn't exist. > > What's going on? > > /home/mailman/bin/check_perms doesn't give any errors > > Regards, > > Mads > > ------------------------------------------------------ > Mailman-Users maillist - Mailman-Users at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users > From dcas at tpg.com.au Fri May 25 07:40:54 2001 From: dcas at tpg.com.au (David Casamento) Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 15:40:54 +1000 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Customized subscribeack.txt Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010525153622.089b4cc0@pop3.norton.antivirus> Hi, We run more then one list off the same machines and would like to have customized welcome messages to new subscribers. The data contained in the /templates/subscribeack.txt file is what is sent to each new member, as well as the Welcome message manually entered in the web management interface. I would like to know how to edit the subscribeack.txt file for one of the lists only. Have tried adding that file to the lists local dir but changes did not take effect as it was still reading the file from the /templates dir Is this possible ? Thanks in advance From Mailman at RobertJShepherd.com Fri May 25 13:56:56 2001 From: Mailman at RobertJShepherd.com (Robert J Shepherd) Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 12:56:56 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Customized subscribeack.txt In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20010525153622.089b4cc0@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: I wanted the same thing. Especially to take out the postings info for some announce-only lists. My solution in the end was to edit subscribeack.txt way down to the basics that suited all lists and then to write longer messages in the customisable part. It works fine. But if someone knows a better way, it would be great to hear. R. >-----Original Message----- >From: mailman-users-admin at python.org >[mailto:mailman-users-admin at python.org]On Behalf Of David Casamento >Sent: 25 May 2001 06:41 >To: mailman-users at python.org >Subject: [Mailman-Users] Customized subscribeack.txt > > >Hi, > >We run more then one list off the same machines and would like to have >customized welcome messages to new subscribers. The data contained in the >/templates/subscribeack.txt file is what is sent to each new member, as >well as the Welcome message manually entered in the web management >interface. I would like to know how to edit the subscribeack.txt file for >one of the lists only. Have tried adding that file to the lists local dir >but changes did not take effect as it was still reading the file from the >/templates dir > >Is this possible ? > >Thanks in advance > > >------------------------------------------------------ >Mailman-Users maillist - Mailman-Users at python.org >http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users From emuller at learningpatterns.com Fri May 25 15:00:04 2001 From: emuller at learningpatterns.com (Edward Muller) Date: 25 May 2001 09:00:04 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman stopped working after /var got trashed Message-ID: <990795604.3496.0.camel@akira.learningpatterns.com> One of our severs' got their /var partition trashed (hd died). I re-contructed it by hand (dns, logs, spool files, etc), but now mailman doesn't seem to be working. Sendmail works (I sent this mail through that server) and sendmail does receive the mail (I can see it calling wrapper in the sendmail logs). I think all of the mail is qued up (there are a bunch of files in the qfiles directory), but not re-delivered. I am (well, was) using mailman 2.0.3 on RedHat Liux 6.2. Anyone have any suggestions? Please! :-) From mads at cit.com.br Fri May 25 17:03:21 2001 From: mads at cit.com.br (Mads Rasmussen) Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 12:03:21 -0300 Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman on RH7.1 still having problems Message-ID: <0105251203211W.01505@kennedy.cit.com.br> I still cannot create a new list properly. The link in the archives/public dir points to a nonexisting file in the archives/private dir Anyone seen this? Another problem, no messages to lists get send, my qfiles dir is growing with nonsend messages. The notification emails when creating a new list get send also when adding a member. I do not know what to do, this was working on RH 6.1 and after I upgraded it doesn't. Any help is much appriciated Regards, Mads From satyap at satya.virtualave.net Fri May 25 17:22:56 2001 From: satyap at satya.virtualave.net (Satya) Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 20:52:56 +0530 (IST) Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman stopped working after /var got trashed In-Reply-To: <990795604.3496.0.camel@akira.learningpatterns.com> Message-ID: On May 25, 2001 at 09:00, Edward Muller wrote: >One of our severs' got their /var partition trashed (hd died). I >re-contructed it by hand (dns, logs, spool files, etc), but now mailman >doesn't seem to be working. >I think all of the mail is qued up (there are a bunch of files in the >qfiles directory), but not re-delivered. Did you recreate the crontab entries? -- Satya. US-bound grad students! For pre-apps, see WWhhaatt ddooeess hhaallff dduupplleexx mmeeaann?? From emuller at learningpatterns.com Fri May 25 17:42:56 2001 From: emuller at learningpatterns.com (Edward Muller) Date: 25 May 2001 11:42:56 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman stopped working after /var got trashed In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <990805376.4403.0.camel@akira.learningpatterns.com> I figured it out about 10 minutes after I posted to the list. Thanks thought! On 25 May 2001 20:52:56 +0530, Satya wrote: > On May 25, 2001 at 09:00, Edward Muller wrote: > > >One of our severs' got their /var partition trashed (hd died). I > >re-contructed it by hand (dns, logs, spool files, etc), but now mailman > >doesn't seem to be working. > > >I think all of the mail is qued up (there are a bunch of files in the > >qfiles directory), but not re-delivered. > > Did you recreate the crontab entries? > > -- > Satya. > US-bound grad students! For pre-apps, see > WWhhaatt ddooeess hhaallff dduupplleexx mmeeaann?? > > > ------------------------------------------------------ > Mailman-Users maillist - Mailman-Users at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users From mads at cit.com.br Fri May 25 17:40:00 2001 From: mads at cit.com.br (Mads Rasmussen) Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 12:40:00 -0300 Subject: [Mailman-Users] RH 7.1 - problem localized Message-ID: <0105251240001Y.01505@kennedy.cit.com.br> My crontab entries was wrong, DOH BUT, there is still a problem, messages only get send when crontab runs /mailman/cron/qrunner This cannot be right?? The archives problem solved itself when the mails got send Regards, Mads From Nigel.Metheringham at InTechnology.co.uk Fri May 25 18:01:49 2001 From: Nigel.Metheringham at InTechnology.co.uk (Nigel Metheringham) Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 17:01:49 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Users] RH 7.1 - problem localized In-Reply-To: Message from Mads Rasmussen of "Fri, 25 May 2001 12:40:00 -0300." <0105251240001Y.01505@kennedy.cit.com.br> Message-ID: mads at cit.com.br said: > My crontab entries was wrong, DOH > BUT, there is still a problem, messages only get send when crontab > runs /mailman/cron/qrunner Thats quite right. Mailman processes messages as they come in and drops them in the outgoing queue. A process (the qrunner) then takes the queue and passes it off to the MTA. This decouples the process so things don#t fail if the MTA cannot immediately accept mail. Nigel. -- [ Nigel Metheringham Nigel.Metheringham at InTechnology.co.uk ] [ Phone: +44 1423 850000 Fax +44 1423 858866 ] [ - Comments in this message are my own and not ITO opinion/policy - ] [ ----- Security is not an add-on -- security is a way of life ----- ] From barry at digicool.com Fri May 25 18:34:02 2001 From: barry at digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw) Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 12:34:02 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Customized subscribeack.txt References: <5.1.0.14.2.20010525153622.089b4cc0@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: <15118.35194.466806.658366@anthem.wooz.org> >>>>> "DC" == David Casamento writes: DC> We run more then one list off the same machines and would like DC> to have customized welcome messages to new subscribers. The DC> data contained in the /templates/subscribeack.txt file is what DC> is sent to each new member, as well as the Welcome message DC> manually entered in the web management interface. I would like DC> to know how to edit the subscribeack.txt file for one of the DC> lists only. Have tried adding that file to the lists local dir DC> but changes did not take effect as it was still reading the DC> file from the /templates dir DC> Is this possible ? This will be much easier in Mailman 2.1, which supports "cascading levels" of template lookup. I.e. it looks for templates first in a language-specific list-specific directory, and then moves up to more general locations, eventually ending in templates/language. -Barry From alaric at babylon5.babcom.com Fri May 25 21:34:32 2001 From: alaric at babylon5.babcom.com (Phil Stracchino) Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 12:34:32 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archives don't seem to be working Message-ID: <20010525123432.B787@babylon5.babcom.com> I seem to be having a problem with archiving for Mailman lists. I have mailman 2.0.5 installed in /opt/mailman on a Slackware 7-based Linux system running Postfix. I currently have one list, ba-b5, set up. I have archiving turned on for the list, and the following set in /opt/mailman/Mailman/mm_cfg.py: DEFAULT_ARCHIVE_PRIVATE = 1 ARCHIVE_TO_MBOX = 0 According to the documentation, this should give me private-access archives using only the web-based archiving mechanism. When I set up my list, Mailman created an archive directory /opt/mailman/archives/private/ba-b5.mbox for the list. However, the archives page appeared to expect /opt/mailman/archives/private/ba-b5 - at any rate, that's what it tried to access. I tried making archives/private/ba-b5 a symlink to the existing archives/private/ba-b5.mbox directory, but the archive page still wasn't happy. After some further experimentation, I now have both archives/private/ba-b5 and archives/private/ba-b5.mbox directories, both with valid-looking contents except that index.html is zero bytes in size. Each appears to have one message archived in it; the message in ba-b5.mbox is a real message, the message in ba-b5 is a test message sent a little later. I think Mailman is actually trying to use the ba-b5 directory, but is falling down when it comes to generating the index. I also see that the database directories are empty -- should they be? Here's the contents of /opt/mailman/archives/private: babylon5:root:/opt/mailman:31 # ls -lR archives/private archives/private: total 8 drwxrwsr-x 4 mailman mailman 4096 May 25 12:08 ba-b5/ drwxrwsr-x 4 mailman mailman 4096 May 25 12:01 ba-b5.mbox/ archives/private/ba-b5: total 12 drwxrwsr-x 2 mailman mailman 4096 May 25 12:07 2001-May/ -rw-rw-r-- 1 mailman mailman 537 May 25 12:07 2001-May.txt drwxrws--- 2 mailman mailman 4096 May 25 12:07 database/ -rw-rw-r-- 1 mailman mailman 0 May 25 12:07 index.html archives/private/ba-b5/2001-May: total 20 -rw-rw-r-- 1 mailman mailman 1577 May 25 12:07 000000.html -rw-rw-r-- 1 mailman mailman 1519 May 25 12:07 author.html -rw-rw-r-- 1 mailman mailman 1523 May 25 12:07 date.html lrwxrwxrwx 1 mailman mailman 11 May 25 12:07 index.html -> thread.html -rw-rw-r-- 1 mailman mailman 1517 May 25 12:07 subject.html -rw-rw-r-- 1 mailman mailman 1542 May 25 12:07 thread.html archives/private/ba-b5/database: total 0 archives/private/ba-b5.mbox: total 12 drwxrwsr-x 2 mailman mailman 4096 May 25 12:01 2001-May/ -rw-rw-r-- 1 mailman mailman 2218 May 25 12:01 2001-May.txt drwxrws--- 2 mailman mailman 4096 May 25 12:01 database/ -rw-rw-r-- 1 mailman mailman 0 May 25 12:01 index.html archives/private/ba-b5.mbox/2001-May: total 20 -rw-rw-r-- 1 mailman mailman 3432 May 25 12:01 000000.html -rw-rw-r-- 1 mailman mailman 1524 May 25 12:01 author.html -rw-rw-r-- 1 mailman mailman 1528 May 25 12:01 date.html lrwxrwxrwx 1 mailman mailman 11 May 25 12:01 index.html -> thread.html -rw-rw-r-- 1 mailman mailman 1522 May 25 12:01 subject.html -rw-rw-r-- 1 mailman mailman 1547 May 25 12:01 thread.html archives/private/ba-b5.mbox/database: total 0 And here's the sum total of settings in mm_cfg.py: DEFAULT_URL = 'http://www.babcom.com/mailman/' DEFAULT_HOST_NAME = 'babcom.com' DEFAULT_ARCHIVE = 0 DEFAULT_ARCHIVE_PRIVATE = 1 ARCHIVE_TO_MBOX = 0 SMTPHOST = 'smtp.babcom.com' SMTPPORT = 25 DEFAULT_NNTP_HOST = 'isn' USE_ENVELOPE_SENDER = 1 DEFAULT_MAX_NUM_RECIPIENTS = 5 DEFAULT_REPLY_GOES_TO_LIST = 1 DEFAULT_PRIVATE_ROSTER = 1 PENDING_REQUEST_LIFE = days(5) DELIVERY_RETRY_PERIOD = days(5) Can anyone offer me any pointers as to what may be wrong here and why my archives aren't working? I'm guessing it has something to do with those zero-length index.html files, but I don't know why they're not being properly generated. -- Linux Now! ..........Because friends don't let friends use Microsoft. phil stracchino -- the renaissance man -- mystic zen biker geek Vr00m: 2000 Honda CBR929RR -- Cage: 2000 Dodge Intrepid R/T Previous vr00mage: 1986 VF500F (sold), 1991 VFR750F3 (foully murdered) From dvh at gtech.co.nz Fri May 25 21:41:51 2001 From: dvh at gtech.co.nz (David Hawke) Date: Sat, 26 May 2001 07:41:51 +1200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] New Installation problem References: <5.1.0.14.2.20010525153622.089b4cc0@pop3.norton.antivirus> <15118.35194.466806.658366@anthem.wooz.org> Message-ID: <3B0EB57F.A9F2DE84@gtech.co.nz> Hi all Installing Mailman for the first time with 2.05 and 2.0 I get the following. Platform is Linux Clues appreciated Thanks David H Last few lines of the screen messages. Listing /usr/local/Mailman/Mailman/pythonlib ... Compiling /usr/local/Mailman/Mailman/pythonlib/StringIO.py ... Compiling /usr/local/Mailman/Mailman/pythonlib/__init__.py ... Compiling /usr/local/Mailman/Mailman/pythonlib/cgi.py ... Compiling /usr/local/Mailman/Mailman/pythonlib/nntplib.py ... Compiling /usr/local/Mailman/Mailman/pythonlib/rfc822.py ... Compiling /usr/local/Mailman/Mailman/pythonlib/smtplib.py ... Compiling /usr/local/Mailman/Mailman/pythonlib/tempfile.py ... Compiling /usr/local/Mailman/Mailman/versions.py ... Traceback (innermost last): File "bin/update", line 30, in ? from Mailman import mm_cfg ImportError: No module named Mailman -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- David Hawke Ph: +64-9-624 2242 mailto:dvh at paradise.net.nz (Home) Fax: +64-9-624 2236 mailto:HawkeD at conwag.com (Work) Mob: 0-21-995 773 From mads at cit.com.br Fri May 25 22:38:39 2001 From: mads at cit.com.br (Mads Rasmussen) Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 17:38:39 -0300 Subject: [Mailman-Users] searching archives Message-ID: <01052517383905.01444@kennedy.cit.com.br> Maybe this is a faq, but I haven't been able to find much I found a discusion from january 2000 but it didn't say much Has someone looked into how to search archives, like putting htdig together with mailman or something? It would be really nice to be able to search the archives. For example when I was looking for if someone already asked this question on the mailman list there was no way to know. Regards, Mads From dmick at utopia.West.Sun.COM Fri May 25 23:49:56 2001 From: dmick at utopia.West.Sun.COM (Dan Mick) Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 14:49:56 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Mailman-Users] RH 7.1 - problem localized Message-ID: <200105252149.OAA10643@utopia.West.Sun.COM> > My crontab entries was wrong, DOH > > BUT, there is still a problem, messages only get send when crontab runs > /mailman/cron/qrunner > > This cannot be right?? I suggest reading the comment at the top of qrunner. In fact, I suggest everyone do this, right now. From claw at kanga.nu Sat May 26 07:32:45 2001 From: claw at kanga.nu (J C Lawrence) Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 22:32:45 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Digests with wrong num,number of messages Message-ID: <32657.990855165@kanga.nu> I'm getting digests from my lists where the message count in the subject is larger than the number of messages contained in the digest. Often the subject value is one larger, sometimes two or three larger. Recent example: ---- Today's Topics (23 msgs) (text/plain) Today's Topics: 1. Re: Player run reputation system (shren) 2. RE: [News] NCSoft + Richard Garriott (Koster, Raph) 3. JOB: How to get into Game Design / Game content (Taylor) 4. RE: [News] NCSoft + Richard Garriott (Freeman, Jeff) 5. RE: business models (Jason Salem) 6. Article: The Ascendancy of Mass Market Gaming (Bruce) 7. RE: [News] NCSoft + Richard Garriott (Koster, Raph) 8. Re: Graphics engines was RE: [MUD-Dev] Jeff's Rant: A World Full of Wheel-Makers (Bruce) 9. RE: [News] NCSoft + Richard Garriott (Matt Mihaly) 10. RE: business models (Koster, Raph) 11. RE: Jessica Mulligan's Column "Biting the Hand" Now at Skotos (Derek Licciardi) 12. Re: business models (Batir) 13. Neil Young Invents UO (Dragoness) 14. Re: business models (Bruce) 15. RE: Graphics engines was RE: [MUD-Dev] Jeff's Rant: A World Full of Wheel-Makers (Brian Hook) 16. Re: [DGN?] It's just a game (?) (Marian Griffith) 17. Thread Pools (was: Re: TECH: Distributed Muds) (Scion Altera) 18. Re: business models (Matt Mihaly) 19. Re: JOB: How to get into Game Design / Game content (Trump) 20. Re: business models (Auli) 21. Re: business models (Matt Mihaly) 22. RE: business models (Stephen Benz) ---- This is a hand-moderated list (all posts are held for moderator approval. Ideas? -- J C Lawrence claw at kanga.nu ---------(*) http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/ The pressure to survive and rhetoric may make strange bedfellows From claw at kanga.nu Sat May 26 08:17:59 2001 From: claw at kanga.nu (J C Lawrence) Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 23:17:59 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] searching archives In-Reply-To: Message from Mads Rasmussen of "Fri, 25 May 2001 17:38:39 -0300." <01052517383905.01444@kennedy.cit.com.br> References: <01052517383905.01444@kennedy.cit.com.br> Message-ID: <14298.990857879@kanga.nu> On Fri, 25 May 2001 17:38:39 -0300 Mads Rasmussen wrote: > Has someone looked into how to search archives, like putting htdig > together with mailman or something? This is easiest if you use an external archiver. I use MHonArc as an external archiver with MnoGoSearch as the search engine: http://www.kanga.nu/lists/listinfo/ http://www.kanga.nu/archives/ http://www.kanga.nu/search/ Someone (forget who) I seem to recall dropped a patch on SourceForge to patch Mailman's internal archiver to support some sort of external search engine (SWISH+?). -- J C Lawrence claw at kanga.nu ---------(*) http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/ The pressure to survive and rhetoric may make strange bedfellows From pavak at ebosys.com Sat May 26 10:39:58 2001 From: pavak at ebosys.com (pavak at ebosys.com) Date: Sat, 26 May 2001 02:39:58 -0600 (MDT) Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can I setup a broadcast only list? Message-ID: <990866396.47699@ebosys.com> Hi!! I have got Mailman 2.0.3 preinstalled with my virtual server on Verio. I am trying to set up a broadcast only list for a local hospital, but did not came across any options in GUI to achieve that. Is there a way out? From barry at digicool.com Sat May 26 19:16:54 2001 From: barry at digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw) Date: Sat, 26 May 2001 13:16:54 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Digests with wrong num,number of messages References: <32657.990855165@kanga.nu> Message-ID: <15119.58630.798639.518626@anthem.wooz.org> >>>>> "JCL" == J C Lawrence writes: JCL> I'm getting digests from my lists where the message count in JCL> the subject is larger than the number of messages contained JCL> in the digest. Often the subject value is one larger, JCL> sometimes two or three larger. Recent example: Yes, I believe there is a known bug where multiline Subject: headers throw off the digest count. It's fixed in MM2.1, but is too much of a PITA to fix in MM2.0.x. -Barry From marauder at morepower.com Sat May 26 19:29:53 2001 From: marauder at morepower.com (Mike Cisar) Date: Sat, 26 May 2001 11:29:53 -0600 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Just a thought about read-only lists... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: This is just a bit of a random thought about the topic of read-only mailing lists, and I may be off to left field if this is something that is already planned for 2.1 (I'll admit I only skim this list, and didn't really even know 2.1 was in the works until I happened to glance at a post today). Anyway... it seems that every few days there is a post from someone who is asking how to implement a read-only list (and now that I think about it about lists that users cannot unsubscribe from). Now I've been running mailman for probably a couple of years now and have done (as I'm sure many have) my own little tweaks and hacks to "simulate" those two particular "features". But that said it would be very nice to see these two things as actual features in the product, and there does seem to be a demonstrated demand. I wouldn't think it too difficult to add these things programatically (a couple of extra variables, a couple of extra checkboxes on the list configuration screen "read-only list" and "users cannot unsubscribe"... and a handful of conditional statements around the routines in the code that control those two functions). That may be oversimplification, as I don't know enough Python to even bother looking at the code :-) Anyway, just thought I'd put in my 2 cents (plus appropriate taxes and duties as this message crosses your borders of course). Cheers >>>>> Mike <<<<< From lkhst at alkahest.com Sat May 26 20:42:04 2001 From: lkhst at alkahest.com (lkhst) Date: Sat, 26 May 2001 20:42:04 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Members email addresses Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010526203720.04acc0d0@pop3.netwebs.co.za> Hi, I got 'Show member addrs so they're not directly recognizable as email addrs?' as yes, and 'Hide the sender of a message, replacing it with the list address (Removes From, Sender and Reply-To fields)' as no in my list setup, yet the members addresses does not show in the archives. I did try the first one as no too, yet still members addresses do not show in the archives. Anything I should do so the addresses are visible in the archives? thanks, s From mailman at vo.cnchost.com Sat May 26 21:14:33 2001 From: mailman at vo.cnchost.com (JC Dill) Date: Sat, 26 May 2001 12:14:33 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Vhosts with Mailman 2.05 Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010526121423.0370d6f0@pop3.vo.cnchost.com> On 11:02 PM 5/19/01, Darron Froese wrote: >On 5/17/01 2:20 AM, "N6REJ" wrote: > >> Hello all. >> Pardon me for really sounding lame, but I'm having a heck of a time finding >> any documentation that explains how to modify mailman so that it will answer >> for vhosts also. > >Everything you need has been posted to the list multiple times. Apparently you assume the person is subscribed to the list, which isn't necessarily true (and if you have been subscribed for any length of time you would obviously know this because the open nature of this list has been a hot topic of discussion in the not-too-distant-past). Then you assume the person has been subscribed for long enough to have seen the question pass by, which is pretty likely to be false (or else, why ask the question at all?). Finally, if you think saying "go search the list archives before posting" is a good rebuttal to my 2 items above, why don't you try doing it yourself and then see if it's an answer? (Note, the search function has been fixed somewhat since I wrote this, but is still flawed in that you need specific instructions on how to search to get good results.) (And then think about how a *non-subscriber* is supposed to even know of the existence or location of the archives in the first place...) This list has a lot of traffic problems created by "how people find and post to the list". The first problem is that it's regularly used in place of a FAQ because no one has made a FAQ readily available (in the way the list posting address is readily available). Solution? Link to the FAQ pages before giving out the list email address on the mailman website (give out the email address only at the bottom of a FAQ TOC page) and link to the FAQ in the readme, instead of giving out this address. The second problem is that the list archives are not easily or readily searchable (recently fixed, somewhat), so if the question isn't a "frequently asked" one, but the answer *is* somewhere in the archives, it isn't easily found, so we get the question here again. Solution? Better archive search feature. Again, link to the "search the archives" page first, before giving out the "post to the list" address. The third problem is that the software itself doesn't clearly encourage people to read the FAQs and webpages that already exist before posting to this list. For instance, the excellent website at: is found in the readme, but not on the mailman website, while the email address for posting to this list is found on the website, in fact it's on the website's homepage. When you install mailman you may install it in a different location from where you uncompressed it. If so, the readme will remain where you uncompressed it and NOT be included in the install directory, so you will have a harder time *finding* the readme when you are poking around in your installed mailman files looking for answers. Solution? The readme needs to be put with the install files when the program is installed, and needs to point to web-accessible solutions before giving people an email address to ask that which has already been asked, (and answered, and is readily available if we would just LINK TO IT and point people to it!). Finally, since I happen to have a local archive of posts to this list since I subscribed, I quickly searched my archive and forwarded 2 posts to the OP (including one that was written by Darron and posted to this list a few days ago) that will hopefully help get him pointed in the correct direction. See how helpful and easy that was? jc From techgrrl at beeze.com Sun May 27 00:00:31 2001 From: techgrrl at beeze.com (Sarah K. Miller) Date: Sat, 26 May 2001 15:00:31 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Questions about mailpasswds Message-ID: <018301c0e62f$4896d5f0$0200010a@home.beeze.com> I have a couple of questions about the mailpasswds. First is about the section; # constrain to specified lists, if any confined_to = sys.argv[1:] Does this mean I can specify which lists to send passwords for? If so, how do I include or exclude specific lists? My second questions is about: # Use this list for message delivery only a_public_list = None Does this mean that I can specify which list on my system the monthly reminders appear to be coming from? If so, how? Would these questions be better directed to the developers list or will I find basically the same people there that I find here?? -- Sarah From dvh at gtech.co.nz Sun May 27 06:35:17 2001 From: dvh at gtech.co.nz (David Hawke) Date: Sun, 27 May 2001 16:35:17 +1200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Install problem solved References: <018301c0e62f$4896d5f0$0200010a@home.beeze.com> Message-ID: <3B108405.DF742C9B@gtech.co.nz> I had been having difficulty with a new installation using python 2 and Mailman 2.0.5 Eventually backed off to python 1.5.2 and Mailman installed cleanly. This should probably be in the FAQ David H -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- David Hawke Ph: +64-9-624 2242 mailto:dvh at paradise.net.nz (Home) Fax: +64-9-624 2236 mailto:HawkeD at conwag.com (Work) Mob: 0-21-995 773 From mike at mgdesign.net Sun May 27 08:35:14 2001 From: mike at mgdesign.net (Mike T. Gholson) Date: Sat, 26 May 2001 23:35:14 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Error sending new owner mail Message-ID: <6A36A4FF313F4D459920D206EDF68BC70325DF@naboo.mgdesign.net> I just completed my installation of Mailman. I'm using a Redhat 7.1 on a PIII 600 - 128mb. Sendmail is working and I've got Python 1.5.2. I walked through the INSTALL, README.LINUX, and FAQ. Now, here's the prob. I run the bin/newlist and it attempts to create the list just fine. Here's the syntax: -------------------------------------------------------------------- >[root at fairlady logs]# /home/mailman/bin/newlist >Enter the name of the list: test8 >Enter the email of the person running the list: mike at mgdesign.net >Initial test8 password: >Entry for aliases file: > >## test8 mailing list >## created: 26-May-2001 root >test8: "|/home/mailman/mail/wrapper post test8" >test8-admin: "|/home/mailman/mail/wrapper mailowner test8" >test8-request: "|/home/mailman/mail/wrapper mailcmd test8" >test8-owner: test8-admin > >Hit enter to continue with test8 owner notification... -------------------------------------------------------------------- And...... The owner (me) never receive the message. My error logs look like this: ----------------------------- File: /home/mailman/logs/post ----------------------------- May 26 23:33:15 2001 (1151) post to test8 from mailman-owner at 240z.org, size=1303, 1 failures May 26 23:34:00 2001 (1175) post to test6 from mailman-owner at fairlady.240z.org, size=1319, 1 failures May 26 23:34:00 2001 (1175) post to test8 from mailman-owner at 240z.org, size=1303, 1 failures ----------------------------- File: /home/mailman/logs/smtp ----------------------------- May 26 23:33:00 2001 (1150) All recipients refused: (111, 'Connection refused') May 26 23:33:00 2001 (1150) smtp for 1 recips, completed in 0.003 seconds May 26 23:33:15 2001 (1151) All recipients refused: (111, 'Connection refused') May 26 23:33:15 2001 (1151) smtp for 1 recips, completed in 0.004 seconds May 26 23:34:00 2001 (1175) All recipients refused: (111, 'Connection refused') May 26 23:34:00 2001 (1175) smtp for 1 recips, completed in 0.004 seconds May 26 23:34:00 2001 (1175) All recipients refused: (111, 'Connection refused') May 26 23:34:00 2001 (1175) smtp for 1 recips, completed in 0.003 seconds May 26 23:34:00 2001 (1175) All recipients refused: (111, 'Connection refused') May 26 23:34:00 2001 (1175) smtp for 1 recips, completed in 0.003 seconds ------------------------------------- File: /home/mailman/logs/smtp-failure ------------------------------------- May 26 22:51:01 2001 (4969) -1 mike at mgdesign.net (ignore) May 26 22:51:01 2001 (4969) -1 mike at mgdesign.net (ignore) May 26 22:51:01 2001 (4969) -1 mike at mgdesign.net (ignore) May 26 22:51:01 2001 (4969) -1 mike at mgdesign.net (ignore) May 26 22:51:01 2001 (4969) -1 mike at mgdesign.net (ignore) May 26 22:52:01 2001 (4982) -1 mike at mgdesign.net (ignore) May 26 22:52:01 2001 (4982) -1 mike at mgdesign.net (ignore) May 26 22:52:01 2001 (4982) -1 mike at mgdesign.net (ignore) May 26 22:52:01 2001 (4982) -1 mike at mgdesign.net (ignore) What could be the problem? -- Mike From juha at saarinen.org Sun May 27 08:45:07 2001 From: juha at saarinen.org (Juha Saarinen) Date: Sun, 27 May 2001 18:45:07 +1200 (NZST) Subject: [Mailman-Users] Error sending new owner mail In-Reply-To: <6A36A4FF313F4D459920D206EDF68BC70325DF@naboo.mgdesign.net> Message-ID: On Sat, 26 May 2001, Mike T. Gholson wrote: > ----------------------------- > File: /home/mailman/logs/smtp > ----------------------------- > May 26 23:33:00 2001 (1150) All recipients refused: (111, 'Connection > refused') Do you have a working MTA? What's in your mailer's log files? -- Regards, Juha PGP fingerprint: B7E1 CC52 5FCA 9756 B502 10C8 4CD8 B066 12F3 9544 From mike at mgdesign.net Sun May 27 08:46:07 2001 From: mike at mgdesign.net (Mike T. Gholson) Date: Sat, 26 May 2001 23:46:07 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Error sending new owner mail Message-ID: <6A36A4FF313F4D459920D206EDF68BC7032233@naboo.mgdesign.net> Yes, Sendmail. It's working great.... Just not with this program for some reason. -----Original Message----- From: Juha Saarinen [mailto:juha at saarinen.org] Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2001 11:45 PM To: Mike T. Gholson Cc: mailman-users at python.org Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Error sending new owner mail On Sat, 26 May 2001, Mike T. Gholson wrote: > ----------------------------- > File: /home/mailman/logs/smtp > ----------------------------- > May 26 23:33:00 2001 (1150) All recipients refused: (111, 'Connection > refused') Do you have a working MTA? What's in your mailer's log files? -- Regards, Juha PGP fingerprint: B7E1 CC52 5FCA 9756 B502 10C8 4CD8 B066 12F3 9544 From juha at saarinen.org Sun May 27 08:48:01 2001 From: juha at saarinen.org (Juha Saarinen) Date: Sun, 27 May 2001 18:48:01 +1200 (NZST) Subject: [Mailman-Users] Error sending new owner mail In-Reply-To: <6A36A4FF313F4D459920D206EDF68BC7032233@naboo.mgdesign.net> Message-ID: On Sat, 26 May 2001, Mike T. Gholson wrote: > Yes, Sendmail. It's working great.... Just not with > this program for some reason. Anything in maillog that might explain why? -- Regards, Juha PGP fingerprint: B7E1 CC52 5FCA 9756 B502 10C8 4CD8 B066 12F3 9544 From mike at mgdesign.net Sun May 27 08:48:32 2001 From: mike at mgdesign.net (Mike T. Gholson) Date: Sat, 26 May 2001 23:48:32 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Error sending new owner mail Message-ID: <6A36A4FF313F4D459920D206EDF68BC7032234@naboo.mgdesign.net> And, nothing in my mail logs. -----Original Message----- From: Mike T. Gholson Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2001 11:46 PM To: Juha Saarinen Cc: mailman-users at python.org Subject: RE: [Mailman-Users] Error sending new owner mail Yes, Sendmail. It's working great.... Just not with this program for some reason. -----Original Message----- From: Juha Saarinen [mailto:juha at saarinen.org] Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2001 11:45 PM To: Mike T. Gholson Cc: mailman-users at python.org Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Error sending new owner mail On Sat, 26 May 2001, Mike T. Gholson wrote: > ----------------------------- > File: /home/mailman/logs/smtp > ----------------------------- > May 26 23:33:00 2001 (1150) All recipients refused: (111, 'Connection > refused') Do you have a working MTA? What's in your mailer's log files? -- Regards, Juha PGP fingerprint: B7E1 CC52 5FCA 9756 B502 10C8 4CD8 B066 12F3 9544 ------------------------------------------------------ Mailman-Users maillist - Mailman-Users at python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users From mstaroscik at home.com Sun May 27 12:06:06 2001 From: mstaroscik at home.com (Matt Staroscik) Date: Sun, 27 May 2001 03:06:06 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Creating an announcement list? Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010527023246.0268e160@mail.sttln1.wa.home.com> I'm trying to create a read-only list, where people can sign up to receive announcements and *can not post*, but I am not seeing an easy way to do this with mailman. At least not gracefully. I have read the sections of the manual regarding the "reply_goes_to_list" and "hide sender" config options, but that looks like a kludge; someone can still address a message to the list manually. It looks like the only way to set up a read-only list is to require approval for all posts, and then just delete the messages that show up in the admin queue. (even if it's an announcement list, SOMEONE's gonna try posting anyway...) I guess in the end this is what I want: a way to send messages to a list into a "black hole," except for those from a list of approved posters. Sorry if this has been covered, but I have scoured the net tonight looking for answers and come up empty. The list I am planning on starting will probably have hundreds of people in it, and I really want to minimize the administrative chores. Thanks in advance for any help. Cheers, Matt mstaroscik at home.com -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Matt Staroscik * KF6IYW * mstaroscik at home.com * http://wrongcrowd.com From quandoecosi at hotmail.com Sun May 27 11:20:07 2001 From: quandoecosi at hotmail.com (Armando P.) Date: Sun, 27 May 2001 11:20:07 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Error!!! Message-ID: Hello world! I have tried to subscribe a list, but after to have received a message in order to confirm the registration, the reply he has originated this message: A message that you sent could not be delivered to one or more of its recipients. This is a permanent error. The following address(es) failed: pipe to |/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/mail/wrapper mailcmd navingandoltre_strada-facendo.elios.net generated by Navingandoltre-request at strada-facendo.elios.net Child process of virtual_address_pipe transport returned 2 from command: /usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/mail/wrapper The following text was generated during the delivery attempt: ------ |/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/mail/wrapper mailcmd navingandoltre_strada-facendo.elios.net ------ Failure to exec script. WANTED gid 12, GOT gid 99. (Reconfigure to take 99?) Which it is the problem? TIA & Excuse me for my bad english!!! Sam _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. From mailman at vo.cnchost.com Sun May 27 18:02:07 2001 From: mailman at vo.cnchost.com (JC Dill) Date: Sun, 27 May 2001 09:02:07 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Error!!! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010527090131.03679eb0@pop3.vo.cnchost.com> On 04:20 AM 5/27/01, Armando P. wrote: >Hello world! > >I have tried to subscribe a list, but after to have received a message >in order to confirm the registration, the reply he has originated this >message: > >A message that you sent could not be delivered to one or more of its >recipients. This is a permanent error. The following address(es) failed: > > pipe to |/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/mail/wrapper mailcmd >navingandoltre_strada-facendo.elios.net > generated by Navingandoltre-request at strada-facendo.elios.net > Child process of virtual_address_pipe transport returned 2 from command: > /usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/mail/wrapper > >The following text was generated during the delivery attempt: > >------ |/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/mail/wrapper mailcmd >navingandoltre_strada-facendo.elios.net ------ > >Failure to exec script. WANTED gid 12, GOT gid 99. (Reconfigure to take >99?) > > >Which it is the problem? This same problem was posted before, and the answer is in the mailing list archives, at: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2000-December/008453.html >TIA & Excuse me for my bad english!!! >Sam >_________________________________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. > > >------------------------------------------------------ >Mailman-Users maillist - Mailman-Users at python.org >http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users > > From mailman at vo.cnchost.com Sun May 27 18:00:09 2001 From: mailman at vo.cnchost.com (JC Dill) Date: Sun, 27 May 2001 09:00:09 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Creating an announcement list? In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20010527023246.0268e160@mail.sttln1.wa.home.com > Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010527085818.0367e390@pop3.vo.cnchost.com> On 03:06 AM 5/27/01, Matt Staroscik wrote: > >I'm trying to create a read-only list, where people can sign up to receive >announcements and *can not post*, but I am not seeing an easy way to do >this with mailman. At least not gracefully. This site is referenced in your mailman README: http://www.aurora.edu/~ckolar/mailman/mailman-administration-v2.html About 1/2 way down, you will see "General posting filters" and a chart on "Who is allowed to post?". >I have read the sections of the manual regarding the "reply_goes_to_list" >and "hide sender" config options, but that looks like a kludge; someone can >still address a message to the list manually. It looks like the only way to >set up a read-only list is to require approval for all posts, and then just >delete the messages that show up in the admin queue. (even if it's an >announcement list, SOMEONE's gonna try posting anyway...) > >I guess in the end this is what I want: a way to send messages to a list >into a "black hole," except for those from a list of approved posters. > >Sorry if this has been covered, but I have scoured the net tonight looking >for answers and come up empty. The list I am planning on starting will >probably have hundreds of people in it, and I really want to minimize the >administrative chores. > >Thanks in advance for any help. > >Cheers, >Matt >mstaroscik at home.com > > >-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= >Matt Staroscik * KF6IYW * mstaroscik at home.com * http://wrongcrowd.com > > >------------------------------------------------------ >Mailman-Users maillist - Mailman-Users at python.org >http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users > > From mstaroscik at home.com Mon May 28 06:12:09 2001 From: mstaroscik at home.com (Matt Staroscik) Date: Sun, 27 May 2001 21:12:09 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem with editing subscription page html (w/ hack) Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010527204917.026a9b90@mail.sttln1.wa.home.com> The subscription results page seems to have some HTML tags hard-coded into it. For example, I can't set the body color to #000000 by changing the available HTML, because #ffffff is hard-coded into Mailman. I found one question about this in the archives, but no solution. So, I started poking around in the source code, and I learned how to get around this. You need to edit mailman/Mailman/Cgi/subscribe.py. Line 241 contains the body color code for the HTML page that is generated for a subscription request. (I was advised to delete subscribe.pyc too. Don't know if that helps or not, but it does regenerate itself. Doesn't hurt anyway. I don't know anything about Python, in case you can't tell...) subscribe.py has a lot of other stuff in it relating to the generation of subscription-related pages, but I didn't mess with that. The above hack seems to take care of my needs. Hope this helps someone, Matt -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Matt Staroscik * KF6IYW * mstaroscik at home.com * http://wrongcrowd.com From rbp at netcanvas.com Mon May 28 07:00:49 2001 From: rbp at netcanvas.com (Rodrigo Borges Pereira) Date: Mon, 28 May 2001 06:00:49 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman not sending to non-local recipients Message-ID: Hi! I have a strange problem here... I created a list and then, using the web interface, added 15 members. 3 of them get their mail from the same machine. And those are the only ones getting mail from the list. The logs show no error.. looks like mailman doesn't even try to send mail to external recipients. I can't figure this out, so any help will be appreciated. I'm using latest mailman and qmail. TIA From enriko.groen at netivity.nl Mon May 28 14:08:10 2001 From: enriko.groen at netivity.nl (Enriko Groen) Date: Mon, 28 May 2001 14:08:10 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] GID Problems, big headache Message-ID: <510EAC2065C0D311929200A0247252622F76F7@NETIVITY-FS> > -----Original Message----- > From: Zimmer [mailto:captain_trek at yahoo.com] > > Ok, i have a problem with my GID setting. I had the same probs with my installation (mailman-2.05 + postfix + FreeBSD). However I did so many things to solve this problem that I'm not sure now what really fixed it. Have you made a separate aliases file for mailman like suggested in the installation FAQ? From gv_indian at yahoo.com Fri May 25 12:45:08 2001 From: gv_indian at yahoo.com (venkateswaran) Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 11:45:08 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Users] make install error References: <20010524150903.25111.qmail@web5302.mail.yahoo.com><15117.39404.603946.703916@anthem.wooz.org><005201c0e4f1$32d05820$e20110ac@venkatesh> <15117.54792.317853.142401@anthem.wooz.org> Message-ID: <00e501c0e796$39bb22d0$e20110ac@venkatesh> Still I am in trouble. I have not commented out the line shared in Setup. It compiled as a static and could see shamodule.o in Modules directory. I did not get any errors while installing. run make test, lists the modules with "test_sha" without any comments. Still I am getting the same error sha module import error. I too tried to install python2.1 also and failed to figure it out. I do not know what should be the next step. Thanks, Venkatesh > >>>>> "v" == venkateswaran writes: > > v> I have tried with pythin1.5.2 & python2.0. But same error. How > v> to enable sha module?. In Modules/Setup there is a line sha > v> shamodule.c. Is there anything more than this? > > Nope, although I'm quite surprised this isn't enabled by default. In > vanilla Python 2.0's Setup file, sha is enabled so it /should/ be > compiled in by default. > > Did you uncomment the *shared* line? If so, perhaps something broke > when you did a "make install" and you didn't notice it > (i.e. shamodule.so got built, but not installed correctly). If > *shared* is commented out, then shamodule.o should be statically > linked into the Python executable. > > Did you run "make tests" when you built Python? Did you get any > errors during that process? There's definitely a test_sha.py test for > that module. > > -Barry _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From enriko.groen at netivity.nl Mon May 28 14:18:10 2001 From: enriko.groen at netivity.nl (Enriko Groen) Date: Mon, 28 May 2001 14:18:10 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] No confirm & localisation Message-ID: <510EAC2065C0D311929200A0247252622F76FC@NETIVITY-FS> > -----Original Message----- > From: barry at digicool.com [mailto:barry at digicool.com] > EG> Is it possible to add members by sending an email containing > EG> "subscribe " without needing a > EG> confirm message from the recipient? I know I can do this > EG> through the add_member command but I would like to do this > EG> through the mail-interface. > > I believe that if you use the list-owners' password you don't need > confirmation. I'd have to double check that though (note to Marc: you > may want to double check this too! ;). I checked it... however you still need to confirm a subscription. Is there an other way to bypass it? > The current CVS tree -- what will become Mailman 2.1 -- has all the > i18n stuff integrated. There are still a few glitches in the current > snapshot, but I'll try to clear those up today. Mailman 2.1 isn't > ready for prime time yet though, but if you're interested in > translating the catalog and templates for Dutch, that would be great > (I'm sure Guido would agree. :). Always good... so as I understand, there isn't a dutch catalog available at this moment? Well, sign me up for it then! -- -------------------------------------------------------- netivity bv www.netivity.nl enriko.groen at netivity.nl 038 - 850 1000 van nagellstraat 4 8011 eb zwolle -------------------------------------------------------- From suhlmann at gmx.de Mon May 28 15:20:15 2001 From: suhlmann at gmx.de (Stephan Uhlmann) Date: Mon, 28 May 2001 15:20:15 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] how to send reject reason to list-owner? Message-ID: <01052511490000.03904@teefax> Hello all, when I reject a mail to a moderated list, is there a possibility to send a copy of the reject notifictaion also to "list-owner"? The "Additionally forward this message to" feature only sends the original mail, but not the reject reason. We're several moderators and I want to inform the others that I rejected a message and why. Thank you, Stephan From detlef.neubauer at charite.de Mon May 28 16:40:24 2001 From: detlef.neubauer at charite.de (Detlef Neubauer) Date: 28 May 2001 16:40:24 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Error sending new owner mail In-Reply-To: "Mike T. Gholson"'s message of "Sat, 26 May 2001 23:35:14 -0700" References: <6A36A4FF313F4D459920D206EDF68BC70325DF@naboo.mgdesign.net> Message-ID: "Mike T. Gholson" writes: > Now, here's the prob. I run the bin/newlist and it > attempts to create the list just fine. Here's the > syntax: > > >Entry for aliases file: > > > >## test8 mailing list > >## created: 26-May-2001 root > >test8: "|/home/mailman/mail/wrapper post test8" > >test8-admin: "|/home/mailman/mail/wrapper mailowner test8" > >test8-request: "|/home/mailman/mail/wrapper mailcmd test8" > >test8-owner: test8-admin > > Have you run the newaliases command after editing the /etc/aliases? Gru? Detlef Neubauer -- .oO GnuPG Key auf http://germany.keyserver.net/ Oo. From barry at digicool.com Mon May 28 18:32:41 2001 From: barry at digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw) Date: Mon, 28 May 2001 12:32:41 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] make install error References: <20010524150903.25111.qmail@web5302.mail.yahoo.com> <15117.39404.603946.703916@anthem.wooz.org> <005201c0e4f1$32d05820$e20110ac@venkatesh> <15117.54792.317853.142401@anthem.wooz.org> <00e501c0e796$39bb22d0$e20110ac@venkatesh> Message-ID: <15122.32169.341023.236920@anthem.wooz.org> >>>>> "v" == venkateswaran writes: v> Still I am in trouble. I have not commented out the line shared v> in Setup. It compiled as a static and could see shamodule.o in v> Modules directory. I did not get any errors while v> installing. run make test, lists the modules with "test_sha" v> without any comments. Still I am getting the same error sha v> module import error. I too tried to install python2.1 also and v> failed to figure it out. v> I do not know what should be the next step. I can't imagine what your problem is. Are you sure that Mailman is using the exact same executable as you built and tested? There isn't another Python executable somewhere else on your path that it is finding instead. Try using Mailman's --with-python configure switch. Python 2.1 should be as easy as just typing "configure ; make install". When all else fails try that. Otherwise, I'm stumped. -Barry From mike at mgdesign.net Mon May 28 20:08:24 2001 From: mike at mgdesign.net (Mike T. Gholson) Date: Mon, 28 May 2001 11:08:24 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Error sending new owner mail Message-ID: <6A36A4FF313F4D459920D206EDF68BC7032238@naboo.mgdesign.net> Yes. I've run the newaliases command. Is there a permissions problem somewhere? -----Original Message----- From: Detlef Neubauer [mailto:detlef.neubauer at charite.de] Sent: Monday, May 28, 2001 7:40 AM To: mailman-users at python.org Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Error sending new owner mail "Mike T. Gholson" writes: > Now, here's the prob. I run the bin/newlist and it > attempts to create the list just fine. Here's the > syntax: > > >Entry for aliases file: > > > >## test8 mailing list > >## created: 26-May-2001 root > >test8: "|/home/mailman/mail/wrapper post test8" > >test8-admin: "|/home/mailman/mail/wrapper mailowner test8" > >test8-request: "|/home/mailman/mail/wrapper mailcmd test8" > >test8-owner: test8-admin > > Have you run the newaliases command after editing the /etc/aliases? Gru? Detlef Neubauer -- .oO GnuPG Key auf http://germany.keyserver.net/ Oo. ------------------------------------------------------ Mailman-Users maillist - Mailman-Users at python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users From mitja at gekko.velenje.cx Mon May 28 20:17:12 2001 From: mitja at gekko.velenje.cx (Mitja Novak) Date: 28 May 2001 20:17:12 CEST Subject: [Mailman-Users] pending Message-ID: <200105281817.f4SIHDF11639@gekko.velenje.cx> Hi!? I`ve installed mailman today and i ran into a problem which is .. ? i try to subscribe i get the mail which i reply at then nothing happens (no? welcome note) the error log is empty? the subscribe log has only entries ? like this? --------? May 28 19:25:49 2001 (17945) mitja: pending mitja at velenje.cx 195.210.204.104? --------? If i go to the "Tend to pending administrative requests" there`s nothing there? and also there is no user shows wich i tried to subscribe with. ? the qfiles dir has several files in it [43]. I also tried adding user by hand? with the add_members command in the bin dir which was sucsesfull but i never? got any mail from the list [i did however got the welcome note] too. I did? link the /etc/smrsh/wrapper -> /home/mailman/mail/wrapper and i just cant see? where to look for errors. I also did insert the crontab. Has something like? that ever happened to anyone here ?? If you know what could be wrong tell me.. ? Thanks? ? Mitja From alaric at babylon5.babcom.com Mon May 28 20:34:46 2001 From: alaric at babylon5.babcom.com (Phil Stracchino) Date: Mon, 28 May 2001 11:34:46 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] make install error In-Reply-To: <15122.32169.341023.236920@anthem.wooz.org>; from barry@digicool.com on Mon, May 28, 2001 at 12:32:41PM -0400 References: <20010524150903.25111.qmail@web5302.mail.yahoo.com> <15117.39404.603946.703916@anthem.wooz.org> <005201c0e4f1$32d05820$e20110ac@venkatesh> <15117.54792.317853.142401@anthem.wooz.org> <00e501c0e796$39bb22d0$e20110ac@venkatesh> <15122.32169.341023.236920@anthem.wooz.org> Message-ID: <20010528113446.B21380@babylon5.babcom.com> On Mon, May 28, 2001 at 12:32:41PM -0400, Barry A. Warsaw wrote: > > >>>>> "v" == venkateswaran writes: > > v> Still I am in trouble. I have not commented out the line shared > v> in Setup. It compiled as a static and could see shamodule.o in > v> Modules directory. I did not get any errors while > v> installing. run make test, lists the modules with "test_sha" > v> without any comments. Still I am getting the same error sha > v> module import error. I too tried to install python2.1 also and > v> failed to figure it out. > > v> I do not know what should be the next step. > > I can't imagine what your problem is. Are you sure that Mailman is > using the exact same executable as you built and tested? There isn't > another Python executable somewhere else on your path that it is > finding instead. Try using Mailman's --with-python configure switch. > > Python 2.1 should be as easy as just typing "configure ; make > install". When all else fails try that. I installed Mailman-2.0.5 with Python-2.1, and also had module import errors. I discovered that the problem is that Python-2.1's "make install" installed files into /usr/lib/python2.1 with severely FUBARed permissions. Try this: chown -R root.root /usr/lib/python2.1 chmod -R go-w,a+rX /usr/lib/python2.1 Then see if Mailman works better for you. -- Linux Now! ..........Because friends don't let friends use Microsoft. phil stracchino -- the renaissance man -- mystic zen biker geek Vr00m: 2000 Honda CBR929RR -- Cage: 2000 Dodge Intrepid R/T Previous vr00mage: 1986 VF500F (sold), 1991 VFR750F3 (foully murdered) From mike at mgdesign.net Mon May 28 20:34:36 2001 From: mike at mgdesign.net (Mike T. Gholson) Date: Mon, 28 May 2001 11:34:36 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Error sending new owner mail Message-ID: <6A36A4FF313F4D459920D206EDF68BC7032239@naboo.mgdesign.net> My problems are pretty simple, I can send mail using sendmail just fine and I can also create a list. But, I think Mailman is having troubles communicating issues to sendmail correctly. After creating a new list, it just can't send mail to the mailing-list owner... What should I do? Install the latest Python? I'm using 1.5.2. See my problem below. -- Mike -----Original Message----- From: Mike T. Gholson Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2001 11:35 PM To: mailman-users at python.org Subject: [Mailman-Users] Error sending new owner mail I just completed my installation of Mailman. I'm using a Redhat 7.1 on a PIII 600 - 128mb. Sendmail is working and I've got Python 1.5.2. I walked through the INSTALL, README.LINUX, and FAQ. Now, here's the prob. I run the bin/newlist and it attempts to create the list just fine. Here's the syntax: -------------------------------------------------------------------- >[root at fairlady logs]# /home/mailman/bin/newlist >Enter the name of the list: test8 >Enter the email of the person running the list: mike at mgdesign.net >Initial test8 password: >Entry for aliases file: > >## test8 mailing list >## created: 26-May-2001 root >test8: "|/home/mailman/mail/wrapper post test8" >test8-admin: "|/home/mailman/mail/wrapper mailowner test8" >test8-request: "|/home/mailman/mail/wrapper mailcmd test8" >test8-owner: test8-admin > >Hit enter to continue with test8 owner notification... -------------------------------------------------------------------- And...... The owner (me) never receive the message. My error logs look like this: ----------------------------- File: /home/mailman/logs/post ----------------------------- May 26 23:33:15 2001 (1151) post to test8 from mailman-owner at 240z.org, size=1303, 1 failures May 26 23:34:00 2001 (1175) post to test6 from mailman-owner at fairlady.240z.org, size=1319, 1 failures May 26 23:34:00 2001 (1175) post to test8 from mailman-owner at 240z.org, size=1303, 1 failures ----------------------------- File: /home/mailman/logs/smtp ----------------------------- May 26 23:33:00 2001 (1150) All recipients refused: (111, 'Connection refused') May 26 23:33:00 2001 (1150) smtp for 1 recips, completed in 0.003 seconds May 26 23:33:15 2001 (1151) All recipients refused: (111, 'Connection refused') May 26 23:33:15 2001 (1151) smtp for 1 recips, completed in 0.004 seconds May 26 23:34:00 2001 (1175) All recipients refused: (111, 'Connection refused') May 26 23:34:00 2001 (1175) smtp for 1 recips, completed in 0.004 seconds May 26 23:34:00 2001 (1175) All recipients refused: (111, 'Connection refused') May 26 23:34:00 2001 (1175) smtp for 1 recips, completed in 0.003 seconds May 26 23:34:00 2001 (1175) All recipients refused: (111, 'Connection refused') May 26 23:34:00 2001 (1175) smtp for 1 recips, completed in 0.003 seconds ------------------------------------- File: /home/mailman/logs/smtp-failure ------------------------------------- May 26 22:51:01 2001 (4969) -1 mike at mgdesign.net (ignore) May 26 22:51:01 2001 (4969) -1 mike at mgdesign.net (ignore) May 26 22:51:01 2001 (4969) -1 mike at mgdesign.net (ignore) May 26 22:51:01 2001 (4969) -1 mike at mgdesign.net (ignore) May 26 22:51:01 2001 (4969) -1 mike at mgdesign.net (ignore) May 26 22:52:01 2001 (4982) -1 mike at mgdesign.net (ignore) May 26 22:52:01 2001 (4982) -1 mike at mgdesign.net (ignore) May 26 22:52:01 2001 (4982) -1 mike at mgdesign.net (ignore) May 26 22:52:01 2001 (4982) -1 mike at mgdesign.net (ignore) What could be the problem? -- Mike ------------------------------------------------------ Mailman-Users maillist - Mailman-Users at python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users From alaric at babylon5.babcom.com Mon May 28 20:43:57 2001 From: alaric at babylon5.babcom.com (Phil Stracchino) Date: Mon, 28 May 2001 11:43:57 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archives don't seem to be working Message-ID: <20010528114357.D21380@babylon5.babcom.com> Can anyone offer any assistance with getting my list archives working? Original post follows: ----- Forwarded message from Phil Stracchino ----- I seem to be having a problem with archiving for Mailman lists. I have mailman 2.0.5 installed in /opt/mailman on a Slackware 7-based Linux system running Postfix. I currently have one list, ba-b5, set up. I have archiving turned on for the list, and the following set in /opt/mailman/Mailman/mm_cfg.py: DEFAULT_ARCHIVE_PRIVATE = 1 ARCHIVE_TO_MBOX = 0 According to the documentation, this should give me private-access archives using only the web-based archiving mechanism. When I set up my list, Mailman created an archive directory /opt/mailman/archives/private/ba-b5.mbox for the list. However, the archives page appeared to expect /opt/mailman/archives/private/ba-b5 - at any rate, that's what it tried to access. I tried making archives/private/ba-b5 a symlink to the existing archives/private/ba-b5.mbox directory, but the archive page still wasn't happy. After some further experimentation, I now have both archives/private/ba-b5 and archives/private/ba-b5.mbox directories, both with valid-looking contents except that index.html is zero bytes in size. Each appears to have one message archived in it; the message in ba-b5.mbox is a real message, the message in ba-b5 is a test message sent a little later. I think Mailman is actually trying to use the ba-b5 directory, but is falling down when it comes to generating the index. I also see that the database directories are empty -- should they be? Here's the contents of /opt/mailman/archives/private: babylon5:root:/opt/mailman:31 # ls -lR archives/private archives/private: total 8 drwxrwsr-x 4 mailman mailman 4096 May 25 12:08 ba-b5/ drwxrwsr-x 4 mailman mailman 4096 May 25 12:01 ba-b5.mbox/ archives/private/ba-b5: total 12 drwxrwsr-x 2 mailman mailman 4096 May 25 12:07 2001-May/ -rw-rw-r-- 1 mailman mailman 537 May 25 12:07 2001-May.txt drwxrws--- 2 mailman mailman 4096 May 25 12:07 database/ -rw-rw-r-- 1 mailman mailman 0 May 25 12:07 index.html archives/private/ba-b5/2001-May: total 20 -rw-rw-r-- 1 mailman mailman 1577 May 25 12:07 000000.html -rw-rw-r-- 1 mailman mailman 1519 May 25 12:07 author.html -rw-rw-r-- 1 mailman mailman 1523 May 25 12:07 date.html lrwxrwxrwx 1 mailman mailman 11 May 25 12:07 index.html -> thread.html -rw-rw-r-- 1 mailman mailman 1517 May 25 12:07 subject.html -rw-rw-r-- 1 mailman mailman 1542 May 25 12:07 thread.html archives/private/ba-b5/database: total 0 archives/private/ba-b5.mbox: total 12 drwxrwsr-x 2 mailman mailman 4096 May 25 12:01 2001-May/ -rw-rw-r-- 1 mailman mailman 2218 May 25 12:01 2001-May.txt drwxrws--- 2 mailman mailman 4096 May 25 12:01 database/ -rw-rw-r-- 1 mailman mailman 0 May 25 12:01 index.html archives/private/ba-b5.mbox/2001-May: total 20 -rw-rw-r-- 1 mailman mailman 3432 May 25 12:01 000000.html -rw-rw-r-- 1 mailman mailman 1524 May 25 12:01 author.html -rw-rw-r-- 1 mailman mailman 1528 May 25 12:01 date.html lrwxrwxrwx 1 mailman mailman 11 May 25 12:01 index.html -> thread.html -rw-rw-r-- 1 mailman mailman 1522 May 25 12:01 subject.html -rw-rw-r-- 1 mailman mailman 1547 May 25 12:01 thread.html archives/private/ba-b5.mbox/database: total 0 And here's the sum total of settings in mm_cfg.py: DEFAULT_URL = 'http://www.babcom.com/mailman/' DEFAULT_HOST_NAME = 'babcom.com' DEFAULT_ARCHIVE = 0 DEFAULT_ARCHIVE_PRIVATE = 1 ARCHIVE_TO_MBOX = 0 SMTPHOST = 'smtp.babcom.com' SMTPPORT = 25 DEFAULT_NNTP_HOST = 'isn' USE_ENVELOPE_SENDER = 1 DEFAULT_MAX_NUM_RECIPIENTS = 5 DEFAULT_REPLY_GOES_TO_LIST = 1 DEFAULT_PRIVATE_ROSTER = 1 PENDING_REQUEST_LIFE = days(5) DELIVERY_RETRY_PERIOD = days(5) Can anyone offer me any pointers as to what may be wrong here and why my archives aren't working? I'm guessing it has something to do with those zero-length index.html files, but I don't know why they're not being properly generated. ----- End forwarded message ----- -- Linux Now! ..........Because friends don't let friends use Microsoft. phil stracchino -- the renaissance man -- mystic zen biker geek Vr00m: 2000 Honda CBR929RR -- Cage: 2000 Dodge Intrepid R/T Previous vr00mage: 1986 VF500F (sold), 1991 VFR750F3 (foully murdered) From kp at balu.klingholz.de Tue May 29 00:55:22 2001 From: kp at balu.klingholz.de (Kaspar Klingholz) Date: Mon, 28 May 2001 22:55:22 +0000 Subject: [Mailman-Users] explicit adress reply, sender adress : solved References: <3B0BAAAE.F04AD032@balu.klingholz.de> Message-ID: <3B12D75A.5094DF23@balu.klingholz.de> hello, the shown problem was not mailman's fault. after disabling sendmail's masquerading feature (Dm) everything worked fine. Kaspar Klingholz wrote: > > hello, > > after installing mailman (2.0, suse 7.1) the first time i encounter some > problems. > > testlist at kaa.klingholz.de lives on a machine that is known under the > obove adress (public ip) to the world and under kaa.localnet with a > 'privat-ip' to our local network. > > DEFAULT_HOST_NAME is set to kaa.klingholz.de > explicit reply-to is set to testlist at kaa.klingholz.de and selected > > but: when mails are sent the header-fields > To: > Sender: > Errors-To: > Reply-To: > contain adresses with '@kaa.localnet', the local name while all other > adresses show the wanted '@kaa.klingholz.de' > > obviously a reply to the list from the 'outer space' is not possible. > > what to do? > > regards > kaspar -- Kaspar P. Klingholz mailto:kp at balu.klingholz.de From mike at mgdesign.net Tue May 29 08:43:04 2001 From: mike at mgdesign.net (Mike T. Gholson) Date: Mon, 28 May 2001 23:43:04 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problems making mailman work. Message-ID: <6A36A4FF313F4D459920D206EDF68BC70325E0@naboo.mgdesign.net> Greetings, I'm having trouble getting mailman configured correctly. I'm running Python 1.5.2 and Mailman 2.0.5 on Redhat Linux 7.1 Everything seems to install correctly and I can create a mailing list. I can even get access to the list and modify parameters remotely. However, Mailman is not sending out mail. I noticed it when I created my first mailing list. It's supposed to send a message to the owner. But, it does not. Any ideas? I've tried the instructions under README.LINUX and I know my sendmail is working. TIA. Mike Gholson From enriko.groen at netivity.nl Tue May 29 09:13:32 2001 From: enriko.groen at netivity.nl (Enriko Groen) Date: Tue, 29 May 2001 09:13:32 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problems making mailman work. Message-ID: <510EAC2065C0D311929200A0247252622F7703@NETIVITY-FS> > However, Mailman is not sending out mail. I noticed it when I created > my first mailing list. It's supposed to send a message to the owner. > But, it does not. > > Any ideas? I've tried the instructions under README.LINUX and > I know my sendmail is working. Check both sendmail and mailman logfiles to see if messages arive and get sent out. You might find some warnings/errors there. -- -------------------------------------------------------- netivity bv www.netivity.nl enriko.groen at netivity.nl 038 - 850 1000 van nagellstraat 4 8011 eb zwolle -------------------------------------------------------- From aagusti at ictnet.es Tue May 29 09:57:48 2001 From: aagusti at ictnet.es (Albert Agusti) Date: Tue, 29 May 2001 09:57:48 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] configuration restrictions Message-ID: <3B13567C.D86158EF@ictnet.es> Hello I'm testing mailman to substitute Majordomo. It seems to be more flexible, with many more features and options and more user friendly, so the choice is easy :-) I need to create a relative special set of lists. I'm very interested that people who owns a list (list moderator-approval), would be able to add, remove people from the list and approve the postings if it's the case, so I want them to access the web interface as list-owners. In the other hand I DON'T WANT let them modify the configuration options of the lists being managed. I want to create the list with a template (all are closely the same) and pass the day by day operation of the list, but with no choice of human error removing the lists, changing the permisions for posting, filters, digest format, and so on. Is this possible ? It would be great if I can hide the options in the web interface, but is enough if they are blocked. Thanks in advance Albert Agusti System Manager ICTnet From benites at cs.unca.edu Tue May 29 16:43:51 2001 From: benites at cs.unca.edu (Robert Benites) Date: Tue, 29 May 2001 10:43:51 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Mailman-Users] segmentation fault during make: Mailman-2.0.[45] Message-ID: <200105291443.f4TEhp301073@marshall.cs.unca.edu> I'm running on a Compaq Tru64 UNIX system, output from uname -a: OSF1 .... V5.1 732 alpha With: gcc version 2.95.2 19991024 (release) Python version... 1.5.2 Configure command: ./configure --prefix=/usr/users/mailman --with-cgi-gid=nobody \ --with-mail-gid=nobody No error messages during configure. During the make, however, I see: gcc -c -I. -DPREFIX="\"/usr/users/mailman\"" -DPYTHON="\"/usr/local/bin/python\"" -DHELPFUL -g -O2 -g -O2 -DHAVE_STRERROR=1 -DHAVE_SETREGID=1 -DHAVE_SYSLOG=1 -DSTDC_HEADERS=1 -DHAVE_SYSLOG_H=1 -DGETGROUPS_T=gid_t -DHAVE_VSNPRINTF=1 ./vsnprintf.c mips-tfile, /tmp/ccczexaL.s:7 Invalid .stabs/.stabn directive, value not found line: #.stabs "/usr/users/facstaff/benites/mailman/mailman-2.0.5/src/",100,0,0,$Ltext0 mips-tfile, /tmp/ccczexaL.s:8 Invalid .stabs/.stabn directive, value not found line: #.stabs "./vsnprintf.c",100,0,0,$Ltext0 mips-tfile, /tmp/ccczexaL.s:30 Segmentation fault line: #.stabs "void:t19=19",128,0,0,0 make[1]: *** [vsnprintf.o] Error 1 Any suggestions about what to do about this? Thanks! -- Bob Benites From claw at kanga.nu Tue May 29 16:50:34 2001 From: claw at kanga.nu (J C Lawrence) Date: Tue, 29 May 2001 07:50:34 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] configuration restrictions In-Reply-To: Message from Albert Agusti of "Tue, 29 May 2001 09:57:48 +0200." <3B13567C.D86158EF@ictnet.es> References: <3B13567C.D86158EF@ictnet.es> Message-ID: <30236.991147834@kanga.nu> On Tue, 29 May 2001 09:57:48 +0200 Albert Agusti wrote: > I want to create the list with a template (all are closely the > same) and pass the day by day operation of the list, but with no > choice of human error removing the lists, changing the permisions > for posting, filters, digest format, and so on. Is this possible? Currently this is not supported by Mailman. -- J C Lawrence claw at kanga.nu ---------(*) http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/ The pressure to survive and rhetoric may make strange bedfellows From shaun at eng.uct.ac.za Tue May 29 16:51:50 2001 From: shaun at eng.uct.ac.za (Shaun Courtney) Date: Tue, 29 May 2001 16:51:50 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Changing a list administrators password (when password lost) Message-ID: <20010529165150.B15652@emma.eng.uct.ac.za> Hi I need to change a list's admin password, I do not have it - its lost... (new administrator taking over.) I can log into the admin pages using the site admins password (which I can also change via bin/mmsitepass) but it does not let me change the list ADMIN password. Can anyone help? -sc -- Faculty of Engineering and the Built Environment Information Technology Manager 0 828 228822 / 650 2800 From yanek at cigital.com Tue May 29 19:03:43 2001 From: yanek at cigital.com (Yanek Korff) Date: Tue, 29 May 2001 13:03:43 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Is it possible Message-ID: <4BC10D47D7ACD3119FA800104B1F883668ECF5@exchange.cigital.com> to disable peoples' ability to subscribe if we set up a server to do nothing but handle mail archives? -Yanek. From claw at kanga.nu Tue May 29 19:22:12 2001 From: claw at kanga.nu (J C Lawrence) Date: Tue, 29 May 2001 10:22:12 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Is it possible In-Reply-To: Message from Yanek Korff of "Tue, 29 May 2001 13:03:43 EDT." <4BC10D47D7ACD3119FA800104B1F883668ECF5@exchange.cigital.com> References: <4BC10D47D7ACD3119FA800104B1F883668ECF5@exchange.cigital.com> Message-ID: <9753.991156932@kanga.nu> On Tue, 29 May 2001 13:03:43 -0400 Yanek Korff wrote: > to disable peoples' ability to subscribe if we set up a server to > do nothing but handle mail archives? Sure, just don't enable the request/etc aliases. -- J C Lawrence claw at kanga.nu ---------(*) http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/ The pressure to survive and rhetoric may make strange bedfellows From yanek at cigital.com Tue May 29 19:47:31 2001 From: yanek at cigital.com (Yanek Korff) Date: Tue, 29 May 2001 13:47:31 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Is it possible Message-ID: <4BC10D47D7ACD3119FA800104B1F883668ECF6@exchange.cigital.com> Well the problem is people are going to the web site, entering their login information and receiving something from the server saying reply to confirm. So the user thinks it's working. No email goes to blah-request until the user attempts to confirm, at which point it bounces... If "Subscribe Here" weren't on the web page, that would be a whole lot cleaner. -Yanek. -----Original Message----- From: J C Lawrence [mailto:claw at kanga.nu] Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2001 1:22 PM To: Yanek Korff Cc: 'mailman-users at python.org' Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Is it possible On Tue, 29 May 2001 13:03:43 -0400 Yanek Korff wrote: > to disable peoples' ability to subscribe if we set up a server to > do nothing but handle mail archives? Sure, just don't enable the request/etc aliases. -- J C Lawrence claw at kanga.nu ---------(*) http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/ The pressure to survive and rhetoric may make strange bedfellows ------------------------------------------------------ Mailman-Users maillist - Mailman-Users at python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users From bilbrey at orbdesigns.com Tue May 29 20:08:21 2001 From: bilbrey at orbdesigns.com (Brian Bilbrey) Date: Tue, 29 May 2001 11:08:21 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Is it possible In-Reply-To: <4BC10D47D7ACD3119FA800104B1F883668ECF6@exchange.cigital.com>; from yanek@cigital.com on Tue, May 29, 2001 at 01:47:31PM -0400 References: <4BC10D47D7ACD3119FA800104B1F883668ECF6@exchange.cigital.com> Message-ID: <20010529110821.A25877@orbdesigns.com> On Tue, May 29, 2001 at 01:47:31PM -0400, Yanek Korff wrote: > Well the problem is people are going to the web site, entering their login > information and receiving something from the server saying reply to confirm. > So the user thinks it's working. No email goes to blah-request until the > user attempts to confirm, at which point it bounces... If "Subscribe Here" > weren't on the web page, that would be a whole lot cleaner. Then edit the contents of the web pages, remove that option. from the admin/listname page, the link for doing this is in the second column, marked * Edit the HTML for the public list pages then edit the General list information page, remove the bits that provide subscription capablility, save and Bob's yer uncle. regards, .brian -- Brian Bilbrey :: bilbrey at orbdesigns.com :: www.orbdesigns.com From yanek at cigital.com Tue May 29 20:54:41 2001 From: yanek at cigital.com (Yanek Korff) Date: Tue, 29 May 2001 14:54:41 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Is it possible Message-ID: <4BC10D47D7ACD3119FA800104B1F883668ECFA@exchange.cigital.com> This cannot be done on a global scale? -Yanek. -----Original Message----- From: Brian Bilbrey [mailto:bilbrey at orbdesigns.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2001 2:08 PM To: mailman-users at python.org Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Is it possible On Tue, May 29, 2001 at 01:47:31PM -0400, Yanek Korff wrote: > Well the problem is people are going to the web site, entering their login > information and receiving something from the server saying reply to confirm. > So the user thinks it's working. No email goes to blah-request until the > user attempts to confirm, at which point it bounces... If "Subscribe Here" > weren't on the web page, that would be a whole lot cleaner. Then edit the contents of the web pages, remove that option. from the admin/listname page, the link for doing this is in the second column, marked * Edit the HTML for the public list pages then edit the General list information page, remove the bits that provide subscription capablility, save and Bob's yer uncle. regards, .brian -- Brian Bilbrey :: bilbrey at orbdesigns.com :: www.orbdesigns.com ------------------------------------------------------ Mailman-Users maillist - Mailman-Users at python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users From WeRBikers at aol.com Tue May 29 21:18:40 2001 From: WeRBikers at aol.com (WeRBikers at aol.com) Date: Tue, 29 May 2001 15:18:40 EDT Subject: [Mailman-Users] AOL User Posts and =20 Problem Message-ID: Perhaps this has been discussed before, but I find no answer in the FAQ or in the GNU List Manangement Guide for v2.0 ... my apologies if this is repetitious. This pertains to version 2.0 of Mailman as implemented on pair Networks www.pairlist.net -- I have pursued emails to pair support to no solution, as have my posts to the pairList specific newsgroup. When an AOL user ... versions 4,5, and 6 inclusive, posts to a pairList the immediate postings are delivered and appear normal to those users receiving in MIME or plain text formats. The digest formats are quite screwed up in that they show the AOL members' posts with =20 strings at the end of each line, then a repeat of the entire post with some HTML tags visible. I know AOL's email interpretation of HTML is half-assed at best, but this is not tolerable in its present form. These quirks hold true regardless of the setting for a given member receiving the Digest format in MIME or plain text. AOL users are not given the choice of sending plain text vs. HTML email. It sends in pseudo-HTML by default and this is unchangeable. The vast majority of subscribers to my particular list are AOL members, so this is quite a problem. Anyone have a solution? Regards, Daniel -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20010529/a1cfff79/attachment.htm From mailman at vo.cnchost.com Tue May 29 21:57:24 2001 From: mailman at vo.cnchost.com (JC Dill) Date: Tue, 29 May 2001 12:57:24 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] AOL User Posts and =20 Problem In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010529125501.035b7eb0@pop3.vo.cnchost.com> On 12:18 PM 5/29/01, WeRBikers at aol.com wrote: >When an AOL user ... versions 4,5, and 6 inclusive, posts to a pairList the >immediate postings are delivered and appear normal to those users receiving >in MIME or plain text formats. The digest formats are quite screwed up in >that they show the AOL members' posts with =20 strings at the end of each >line, then a repeat of the entire post with some HTML tags visible. I know >AOL's email interpretation of HTML is half-assed at best, but this is not >tolerable in its present form. These quirks hold true regardless of the >setting for a given member receiving the Digest format in MIME or plain text. >AOL users are not given the choice of sending plain text vs. HTML email. It >sends in pseudo-HTML by default and this is unchangeable. The vast majority >of subscribers to my particular list are AOL members, so this is quite a >problem. A quick search of this list's archives for the word "demime" finds: If you didn't know about "demime", you could search on "remove mime" and find which has a post that references it. This should get you started. jc (posted and emailed) From mike at mgdesign.net Wed May 30 03:31:51 2001 From: mike at mgdesign.net (Mike T. Gholson) Date: Tue, 29 May 2001 18:31:51 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Not sending mail FIXED Message-ID: <6A36A4FF313F4D459920D206EDF68BC70325E1@naboo.mgdesign.net> I finally determined where to fix my problem. As you might remember, I was having trouble with a basic installation of Mailman on my Redhat Linux 7.1 box. While sendmail was working on it's own.... Mailman was not sending mail through that particular MTA. After creating a new group, it wasn't sending a confirmation email to the list owner (me). The fix: I added this line to my mm_cfg.py file: DELIVERY_MODULE = 'Sendmail' It defaults to: DELIVERY_MODULE = 'SMTPDirect' There is also a warning concerning the use of the Sendmail module. I'd rather use the default config, but, I can't get it to work correctly. Does this lead some of you to a possible reason why SMTPDirect might not work? I have no clue. Seems like it's checking for something and not getting what it needs.... [m] From mike at mgdesign.net Wed May 30 03:35:49 2001 From: mike at mgdesign.net (Mike T. Gholson) Date: Tue, 29 May 2001 18:35:49 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Not sending mail FIXED Message-ID: <6A36A4FF313F4D459920D206EDF68BC7032255@naboo.mgdesign.net> The server isn't creating the list alias correctly. When I try to subscribe, the confirmation message bounces back to me. Ugh. -----Original Message----- From: Mike T. Gholson Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2001 6:32 PM To: mailman-users at python.org Subject: [Mailman-Users] Not sending mail FIXED I finally determined where to fix my problem. As you might remember, I was having trouble with a basic installation of Mailman on my Redhat Linux 7.1 box. While sendmail was working on it's own.... Mailman was not sending mail through that particular MTA. After creating a new group, it wasn't sending a confirmation email to the list owner (me). The fix: I added this line to my mm_cfg.py file: DELIVERY_MODULE = 'Sendmail' It defaults to: DELIVERY_MODULE = 'SMTPDirect' There is also a warning concerning the use of the Sendmail module. I'd rather use the default config, but, I can't get it to work correctly. Does this lead some of you to a possible reason why SMTPDirect might not work? I have no clue. Seems like it's checking for something and not getting what it needs.... [m] ------------------------------------------------------ Mailman-Users maillist - Mailman-Users at python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users From claw at kanga.nu Wed May 30 04:16:25 2001 From: claw at kanga.nu (J C Lawrence) Date: Tue, 29 May 2001 19:16:25 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] AOL User Posts and =20 Problem In-Reply-To: Message from WeRBikers@aol.com of "Tue, 29 May 2001 15:18:40 EDT." References: Message-ID: <22907.991188985@kanga.nu> On Tue, 29 May 2001 15:18:40 EDT WeRBikers wrote: > Anyone have a solution? Use demime, stripmime, mimefilter or similar as a pre-filter on your list to strip the HTML attachments. -- J C Lawrence claw at kanga.nu ---------(*) http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/ The pressure to survive and rhetoric may make strange bedfellows From its at vcsnyc.org Wed May 30 07:45:21 2001 From: its at vcsnyc.org (Raul) Date: Wed, 30 May 2001 01:45:21 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Misdirected links on Administration Web Pages (installed on OS X) Message-ID: <200105300545.BAA23804@smtp10.atl.mindspring.net> Hola, I've just installed Mailman 2.0.5 on OS X Client v10.0.3 (got it to compile, and deliver mail to the test mailing list), but I am having trouble with the web interface. After I successfully log in as a list administrator, the following links all take me to the General Options page instead of their respective pages: * Tend to pending administrative requests * Go to the general list information page * Edit the HTML for the public list pages * Go to list archives [if it is a private list, I can see the archive if it is public] Also I can't get a subscriber options page to load. I am always taken to the Admin page (if I'm not logged in, it prompts me for a password). I am using Sendmail and Apache. The relevant apache.conf lines follow: ### Begin apache.conf excerpt # Mailman additions ScriptAlias /mailman/ /Users/mailman/Lists/cgi-bin/ # # AllowOverride None # Options None # Order allow,deny # Allow from all # Alias /Mmimages/ /Users/mailman/Lists/icons/ Options Indexes MultiViews AllowOverride None Order allow,deny Allow from all Alias /pipermail/ /Users/mailman/Lists/archives/public/ Options Indexes MultiViews FollowSymLinks # end Mailman additions ### End apache.conf excerpt I've tried the conf with the shown tags commented out and included, with the same results. I've looked at the logs, but for the most part clicking on the links above return status code 200, even though the page that gets returned is not the correct one. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thank you in advance. Sincerely, Raul. From cwieland at uci.edu Wed May 30 17:14:59 2001 From: cwieland at uci.edu (Con Wieland) Date: Wed, 30 May 2001 08:14:59 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] list subscriptions Message-ID: Hello Does anyone know of a way to list all the lists an individual (or individual address) may be subscribed to on a server? TIA Con Wieland UC Irvine From cdh at CompleteIS.com Wed May 30 17:33:20 2001 From: cdh at CompleteIS.com (Chris Halverson) Date: 30 May 2001 10:33:20 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] list subscriptions In-Reply-To: (Con Wieland's message of "Wed, 30 May 2001 08:14:59 -0700") References: Message-ID: On Wed, 30 May 2001 08:14:59 -0700, Con Wieland wrote: > Does anyone know of a way to list all the lists an individual (or > individual address) may be subscribed to on a server? ~mailman/bin/find_member emailaddress {cdh at enterprise} 10:31am (~mailman/bin) > ./find_member cdh at completeis.com cdh at completeis.com found in: staff cdhtest mrnet rmon {cdh at enterprise} 10:31am (~mailman/bin) > cdh -- Chris D. Halverson Complete Internet Solutions (612) 279-2106 http://www.completeis.com/ From alex at phred.org Wed May 30 17:58:19 2001 From: alex at phred.org (alex wetmore) Date: Wed, 30 May 2001 08:58:19 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Mailman-Users] any way to turn off raw archives Message-ID: <20010530085458.H3701-100000@phred.org> I'm using pipermail for my non-searchable archives. Recently I've been auditing my bandwidth usage, and have found that a fair amount of it is from people downloading mbox archives, rather than individual messages. I talked to a couple of individuals who were doing this, and it was so that they could do a search (much better for them to do that on my searchable archives). Is there any way to get pipermail not to make the mbox archives public? I would like to keep them around, because they are useful should I ever switch to another archiving mechanism. Currently I'm just chmod'ing these files to 660, so that mailman can party on them, but web users can't. alex From TKing at isac.org Wed May 30 18:14:23 2001 From: TKing at isac.org (TKing at isac.org) Date: Wed, 30 May 2001 11:14:23 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Users] help Message-ID: Send Mailman-Users mailing list submissions to mailman-users at python.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to mailman-users-request at python.org You can reach the person managing the list at mailman-users-admin at python.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Mailman-Users digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Is it possible (Yanek Korff) 2. Re: Is it possible (J C Lawrence) 3. RE: Is it possible (Yanek Korff) 4. Re: Is it possible (Brian Bilbrey) 5. RE: Is it possible (Yanek Korff) 6. AOL User Posts and =20 Problem (WeRBikers at aol.com) 7. Re: AOL User Posts and =20 Problem (JC Dill) 8. Not sending mail FIXED (Mike T. Gholson) 9. RE: Not sending mail FIXED (Mike T. Gholson) 10. Re: AOL User Posts and =20 Problem (J C Lawrence) 11. Misdirected links on Administration Web Pages (installed on OS X) (Raul) 12. list subscriptions (Con Wieland) 13. Re: list subscriptions (Chris Halverson) Message: 1 Message-ID: <4BC10D47D7ACD3119FA800104B1F883668ECF5 at exchange.cigital.com> From: Yanek Korff To: "'mailman-users at python.org'" Date: Tue, 29 May 2001 13:03:43 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Subject: [Mailman-Users] Is it possible Sender: mailman-users-admin at python.org Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Mailman mailing list management users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: to disable peoples' ability to subscribe if we set up a server to do nothing but handle mail archives? -Yanek. Message: 2 To: Yanek Korff cc: "'mailman-users at python.org'" Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Is it possible In-Reply-To: Message from Yanek Korff of "Tue, 29 May 2001 13:03:43 EDT." <4BC10D47D7ACD3119FA800104B1F883668ECF5 at exchange.cigital.com> References: <4BC10D47D7ACD3119FA800104B1F883668ECF5 at exchange.cigital.com> Date: Tue, 29 May 2001 10:22:12 -0700 Message-ID: <9753.991156932 at kanga.nu> From: J C Lawrence Sender: mailman-users-admin at python.org Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Mailman mailing list management users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: On Tue, 29 May 2001 13:03:43 -0400 Yanek Korff wrote: > to disable peoples' ability to subscribe if we set up a server to > do nothing but handle mail archives? Sure, just don't enable the request/etc aliases. -- J C Lawrence claw at kanga.nu ---------(*) http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/ The pressure to survive and rhetoric may make strange bedfellows Message: 3 Message-ID: <4BC10D47D7ACD3119FA800104B1F883668ECF6 at exchange.cigital.com> From: Yanek Korff To: 'J C Lawrence' Cc: "'mailman-users at python.org'" Subject: RE: [Mailman-Users] Is it possible Date: Tue, 29 May 2001 13:47:31 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: mailman-users-admin at python.org Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Mailman mailing list management users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Well the problem is people are going to the web site, entering their login information and receiving something from the server saying reply to confirm. So the user thinks it's working. No email goes to blah-request until the user attempts to confirm, at which point it bounces... If "Subscribe Here" weren't on the web page, that would be a whole lot cleaner. -Yanek. -----Original Message----- From: J C Lawrence [mailto:claw at kanga.nu] Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2001 1:22 PM To: Yanek Korff Cc: 'mailman-users at python.org' Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Is it possible On Tue, 29 May 2001 13:03:43 -0400 Yanek Korff wrote: > to disable peoples' ability to subscribe if we set up a server to > do nothing but handle mail archives? Sure, just don't enable the request/etc aliases. -- J C Lawrence claw at kanga.nu ---------(*) http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/ The pressure to survive and rhetoric may make strange bedfellows ------------------------------------------------------ Mailman-Users maillist - Mailman-Users at python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Message: 4 Date: Tue, 29 May 2001 11:08:21 -0700 From: Brian Bilbrey To: mailman-users at python.org Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Is it possible Message-ID: <20010529110821.A25877 at orbdesigns.com> References: <4BC10D47D7ACD3119FA800104B1F883668ECF6 at exchange.cigital.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <4BC10D47D7ACD3119FA800104B1F883668ECF6 at exchange.cigital.com>; from yanek at cigital.com on Tue, May 29, 2001 at 01:47:31PM -0400 Sender: mailman-users-admin at python.org Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Mailman mailing list management users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: On Tue, May 29, 2001 at 01:47:31PM -0400, Yanek Korff wrote: > Well the problem is people are going to the web site, entering their login > information and receiving something from the server saying reply to confirm. > So the user thinks it's working. No email goes to blah-request until the > user attempts to confirm, at which point it bounces... If "Subscribe Here" > weren't on the web page, that would be a whole lot cleaner. Then edit the contents of the web pages, remove that option. from the admin/listname page, the link for doing this is in the second column, marked * Edit the HTML for the public list pages then edit the General list information page, remove the bits that provide subscription capablility, save and Bob's yer uncle. regards, .brian -- Brian Bilbrey :: bilbrey at orbdesigns.com :: www.orbdesigns.com Message: 5 Message-ID: <4BC10D47D7ACD3119FA800104B1F883668ECFA at exchange.cigital.com> From: Yanek Korff To: 'Brian Bilbrey' , mailman-users at python.org Subject: RE: [Mailman-Users] Is it possible Date: Tue, 29 May 2001 14:54:41 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: mailman-users-admin at python.org Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Mailman mailing list management users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: This cannot be done on a global scale? -Yanek. -----Original Message----- From: Brian Bilbrey [mailto:bilbrey at orbdesigns.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2001 2:08 PM To: mailman-users at python.org Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Is it possible On Tue, May 29, 2001 at 01:47:31PM -0400, Yanek Korff wrote: > Well the problem is people are going to the web site, entering their login > information and receiving something from the server saying reply to confirm. > So the user thinks it's working. No email goes to blah-request until the > user attempts to confirm, at which point it bounces... If "Subscribe Here" > weren't on the web page, that would be a whole lot cleaner. Then edit the contents of the web pages, remove that option. from the admin/listname page, the link for doing this is in the second column, marked * Edit the HTML for the public list pages then edit the General list information page, remove the bits that provide subscription capablility, save and Bob's yer uncle. regards, .brian -- Brian Bilbrey :: bilbrey at orbdesigns.com :: www.orbdesigns.com ------------------------------------------------------ Mailman-Users maillist - Mailman-Users at python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Message: 6 From: WeRBikers at aol.com Message-ID: Date: Tue, 29 May 2001 15:18:40 EDT To: mailman-users at python.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary ="part1_d.155f43fd.28455010_boundary" Subject: [Mailman-Users] AOL User Posts and =20 Problem Sender: mailman-users-admin at python.org Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Mailman mailing list management users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Perhaps this has been discussed before, but I find no answer in the FAQ or in the GNU List Manangement Guide for v2.0 ... my apologies if this is repetitious. This pertains to version 2.0 of Mailman as implemented on pair Networks www.pairlist.net -- I have pursued emails to pair support to no solution, as have my posts to the pairList specific newsgroup. When an AOL user ... versions 4,5, and 6 inclusive, posts to a pairList the immediate postings are delivered and appear normal to those users receiving in MIME or plain text formats. The digest formats are quite screwed up in that they show the AOL members' posts with =20 strings at the end of each line, then a repeat of the entire post with some HTML tags visible. I know AOL's email interpretation of HTML is half-assed at best, but this is not tolerable in its present form. These quirks hold true regardless of the setting for a given member receiving the Digest format in MIME or plain text. AOL users are not given the choice of sending plain text vs. HTML email. It sends in pseudo-HTML by default and this is unchangeable. The vast majority of subscribers to my particular list are AOL members, so this is quite a problem. Anyone have a solution? Regards, Daniel Message: 7 Message-Id: <5.0.0.25.2.20010529125501.035b7eb0 at pop3.vo.cnchost.com> Date: Tue, 29 May 2001 12:57:24 -0700 To: WeRBikers at aol.com, mailman-users at python.org From: JC Dill Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] AOL User Posts and =20 Problem In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: mailman-users-admin at python.org Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Mailman mailing list management users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: On 12:18 PM 5/29/01, WeRBikers at aol.com wrote: >When an AOL user ... versions 4,5, and 6 inclusive, posts to a pairList the >immediate postings are delivered and appear normal to those users receiving >in MIME or plain text formats. The digest formats are quite screwed up in >that they show the AOL members' posts with =20 strings at the end of each >line, then a repeat of the entire post with some HTML tags visible. I know >AOL's email interpretation of HTML is half-assed at best, but this is not >tolerable in its present form. These quirks hold true regardless of the >setting for a given member receiving the Digest format in MIME or plain text. >AOL users are not given the choice of sending plain text vs. HTML email. It >sends in pseudo-HTML by default and this is unchangeable. The vast majority >of subscribers to my particular list are AOL members, so this is quite a >problem. A quick search of this list's archives for the word "demime" finds: If you didn't know about "demime", you could search on "remove mime" and find which has a post that references it. This should get you started. jc (posted and emailed) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message: 8 Date: Tue, 29 May 2001 18:31:51 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Message-ID: <6A36A4FF313F4D459920D206EDF68BC70325E1 at naboo.mgdesign.net> content-class: urn:content-classes:message Thread-Topic: [Mailman-Users] AOL User Posts and =20 Problem Thread-Index: AcDoedNJ8Szd1VJBTEixVTUrK6bYggALaf/Q From: "Mike T. Gholson" To: Subject: [Mailman-Users] Not sending mail FIXED Sender: mailman-users-admin at python.org Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Mailman mailing list management users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: I finally determined where to fix my problem. As you might remember, I was having trouble with a basic installation of Mailman on my Redhat Linux 7.1 box. While sendmail was working on it's own.... Mailman was not sending mail through that particular MTA. After creating a new group, it wasn't sending a confirmation email to the list owner (me). The fix: I added this line to my mm_cfg.py file: DELIVERY_MODULE = 'Sendmail' It defaults to: DELIVERY_MODULE = 'SMTPDirect' There is also a warning concerning the use of the Sendmail module. I'd rather use the default config, but, I can't get it to work correctly. Does this lead some of you to a possible reason why SMTPDirect might not work? I have no clue. Seems like it's checking for something and not getting what it needs.... [m] Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message: 9 Subject: RE: [Mailman-Users] Not sending mail FIXED Date: Tue, 29 May 2001 18:35:49 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Message-ID: , List-Id: Mailman mailing list management users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: The server isn't creating the list alias correctly. When I try to subscribe, the confirmation message bounces back to me. Ugh. -----Original Message----- From: Mike T. Gholson Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2001 6:32 PM To: mailman-users at python.org Subject: [Mailman-Users] Not sending mail FIXED I finally determined where to fix my problem. As you might remember, I was having trouble with a basic installation of Mailman on my Redhat Linux 7.1 box. While sendmail was working on it's own.... Mailman was not sending mail through that particular MTA. After creating a new group, it wasn't sending a confirmation email to the list owner (me). The fix: I added this line to my mm_cfg.py file: DELIVERY_MODULE = 'Sendmail' It defaults to: DELIVERY_MODULE = 'SMTPDirect' There is also a warning concerning the use of the Sendmail module. I'd rather use the default config, but, I can't get it to work correctly. Does this lead some of you to a possible reason why SMTPDirect might not work? I have no clue. Seems like it's checking for something and not getting what it needs.... [m] ------------------------------------------------------ Mailman-Users maillist - Mailman-Users at python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Message: 10 To: WeRBikers at aol.com cc: mailman-users at python.org Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] AOL User Posts and =20 Problem In-Reply-To: Message from WeRBikers at aol.com of "Tue, 29 May 2001 15:18:40 EDT." References: Date: Tue, 29 May 2001 19:16:25 -0700 Message-ID: <22907.991188985 at kanga.nu> From: J C Lawrence Sender: mailman-users-admin at python.org Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Mailman mailing list management users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: On Tue, 29 May 2001 15:18:40 EDT WeRBikers wrote: > Anyone have a solution? Use demime, stripmime, mimefilter or similar as a pre-filter on your list to strip the HTML attachments. -- J C Lawrence claw at kanga.nu ---------(*) http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/ The pressure to survive and rhetoric may make strange bedfellows Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message: 11 Message-Id: <200105300545.BAA23804 at smtp10.atl.mindspring.net> Date: Wed, 30 May 2001 01:45:21 -0400 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v388) From: Raul To: mailman-users at python.org Subject: [Mailman-Users] Misdirected links on Administration Web Pages (installed on OS X) Sender: mailman-users-admin at python.org Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Mailman mailing list management users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Hola, I've just installed Mailman 2.0.5 on OS X Client v10.0.3 (got it to compile, and deliver mail to the test mailing list), but I am having trouble with the web interface. After I successfully log in as a list administrator, the following links all take me to the General Options page instead of their respective pages: * Tend to pending administrative requests * Go to the general list information page * Edit the HTML for the public list pages * Go to list archives [if it is a private list, I can see the archive if it is public] Also I can't get a subscriber options page to load. I am always taken to the Admin page (if I'm not logged in, it prompts me for a password). I am using Sendmail and Apache. The relevant apache.conf lines follow: ### Begin apache.conf excerpt # Mailman additions ScriptAlias /mailman/ /Users/mailman/Lists/cgi-bin/ # # AllowOverride None # Options None # Order allow,deny # Allow from all # Alias /Mmimages/ /Users/mailman/Lists/icons/ Options Indexes MultiViews AllowOverride None Order allow,deny Allow from all Alias /pipermail/ /Users/mailman/Lists/archives/public/ Options Indexes MultiViews FollowSymLinks # end Mailman additions ### End apache.conf excerpt I've tried the conf with the shown tags commented out and included, with the same results. I've looked at the logs, but for the most part clicking on the links above return status code 200, even though the page that gets returned is not the correct one. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thank you in advance. Sincerely, Raul. Message: 12 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-Id: Date: Wed, 30 May 2001 08:14:59 -0700 To: mailman-users at python.org From: Con Wieland Subject: [Mailman-Users] list subscriptions Sender: mailman-users-admin at python.org Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Mailman mailing list management users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Hello Does anyone know of a way to list all the lists an individual (or individual address) may be subscribed to on a server? TIA Con Wieland UC Irvine Message: 13 From: Chris Halverson To: Con Wieland Cc: mailman-users at python.org Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] list subscriptions References: Organization: Complete Internet Solutions Date: 30 May 2001 10:33:20 -0500 In-Reply-To: (Con Wieland's message of "Wed, 30 May 2001 08:14:59 -0700") Message-ID: Lines: 20 User-Agent: Gnus/5.090004 (Oort Gnus v0.04) XEmacs/21.4 (Academic Rigor) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: mailman-users-admin at python.org Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Mailman mailing list management users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: On Wed, 30 May 2001 08:14:59 -0700, Con Wieland wrote: > Does anyone know of a way to list all the lists an individual (or > individual address) may be subscribed to on a server? ~mailman/bin/find_member emailaddress {cdh at enterprise} 10:31am (~mailman/bin) > ./find_member cdh at completeis.com cdh at completeis.com found in: staff cdhtest mrnet rmon {cdh at enterprise} 10:31am (~mailman/bin) > cdh -- Chris D. Halverson Complete Internet Solutions (612) 279-2106 http://www.completeis.com/ ------------------------------------------------------ Mailman-Users maillist - Mailman-Users at python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users From jc013 at mail.el.k12.oh.us Wed May 30 21:11:45 2001 From: jc013 at mail.el.k12.oh.us (Jayne) Date: Wed, 30 May 2001 15:11:45 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Red Hat 7.1 Message-ID: <025701c0e93c$60dd7690$940019ac@el.k12.oh.us> Has anyone got this to work on Red Hat 7.1? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20010530/37efcf03/attachment.html From its at vcsnyc.org Wed May 30 22:55:07 2001 From: its at vcsnyc.org (Raul Cuza) Date: Wed, 30 May 2001 16:55:07 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Misdirected links on Administration Web Pages (installed on OS X) In-Reply-To: <200105300545.BAA23804@smtp10.atl.mindspring.net> References: <200105300545.BAA23804@smtp10.atl.mindspring.net> Message-ID: Looks like my solution to ./configure not setting up the source files correctly under OS X was the problem. When I used the solution in bug report #227694, as pointed out by the helpful twouters, all the links worked like they should. Thank you for your help. r. At 1:45 AM -0400 5/30/01, Raul wrote: >Hola, > >I've just installed Mailman 2.0.5 on OS X Client v10.0.3 (got it to >compile, and deliver mail to the test mailing list), but I am having >trouble with the web interface. After I successfully log in as a >list administrator, the following links all take me to the General >Options page instead of their >respective pages: > >* Tend to pending administrative requests >* Go to the general list information page >* Edit the HTML for the public list pages >* Go to list archives [if it is a private list, I can see the >archive if it is public] > >Also I can't get a subscriber options page to load. I am always >taken to the Admin page (if I'm not logged in, it prompts me for a >password). > >I am using Sendmail and Apache. The relevant apache.conf lines follow: > >### Begin apache.conf excerpt > # Mailman additions > ScriptAlias /mailman/ /Users/mailman/Lists/cgi-bin/ > ># ># AllowOverride None ># Options None ># Order allow,deny ># Allow from all ># > > Alias /Mmimages/ /Users/mailman/Lists/icons/ > > > Options Indexes MultiViews > AllowOverride None > Order allow,deny > Allow from all > > > Alias /pipermail/ /Users/mailman/Lists/archives/public/ > > > Options Indexes MultiViews FollowSymLinks > > > # end Mailman additions >### End apache.conf excerpt > >I've tried the conf with the shown tags commented out >and included, with the same results. > >I've looked at the logs, but for the most part clicking on the links >above return status code 200, even though the page that gets >returned is not the correct one. > >Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thank you in advance. Sincerely, Raul. -- - Ra?l Cuza 'Chance favors the prepared mind.' - Network/System Administrator - Louis Pasteur - Village Community School From eparker at mindsec.com Wed May 30 22:56:19 2001 From: eparker at mindsec.com (Erik) Date: Wed, 30 May 2001 13:56:19 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Mailman-Users] Red Hat 7.1 In-Reply-To: <025701c0e93c$60dd7690$940019ac@el.k12.oh.us> Message-ID: > Has anyone got this to work on Red Hat 7.1? I didn't have any problems.. ALthough, I'm not sure what the stock version of PYthon is with RH 7.1.. I used 1.6 I believe.. I couldn't get mailman to work at all with any of the python 2.x versions. Erik "Security is a process, not a product." From mike at mgdesign.net Thu May 31 00:05:21 2001 From: mike at mgdesign.net (Mike T. Gholson) Date: Wed, 30 May 2001 15:05:21 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Red Hat 7.1 Message-ID: <6A36A4FF313F4D459920D206EDF68BC70325E4@naboo.mgdesign.net> I've been having troubles getting Mailman to work correctly on 7.1. Wierd stuff with sendmail. I should try to upgrade my Python. 1.5.2 comes with Redhat 7.1 -----Original Message----- From: Erik Sent: Wed 5/30/2001 1:56 PM To: Jayne Cc: mailman-users at python.org Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Red Hat 7.1 > Has anyone got this to work on Red Hat 7.1? I didn't have any problems.. ALthough, I'm not sure what the stock version of PYthon is with RH 7.1.. I used 1.6 I believe.. I couldn't get mailman to work at all with any of the python 2.x versions. Erik "Security is a process, not a product." ------------------------------------------------------ Mailman-Users maillist - Mailman-Users at python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/ms-tnef Size: 3982 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20010530/645c109a/attachment.bin From leah at unleashed.org Thu May 31 00:09:05 2001 From: leah at unleashed.org (Leah Cunningham) Date: Wed, 30 May 2001 15:09:05 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] linking problem Message-ID: <20010530150905.A71340@unleashed.org> Hello, There is probably a very simple explanation for this, but I am new to using mailman and am unsure what the cause is. I have mailman set up with sendmail and the apache webserver. I configured the httpd.conf with the line: ScriptAlias /mailman/ "/usr/lib/mailman/cgi-bin/" If I go to http://localhost/mailman/listinfo, for example, things look fine . . . however all of my links include an extra "lisinfo". For example a list called linux-announce is linked as "http://localhost/mailman/listinfo/listinfo/linux-announce" when it should be "http://localhost/mailman/listinfo/linux-announce". Or, if I go to http://localhost/mailman/admin, the link for linux-announce changes to "http://localhost/mailman/listinfo/admin/linux-announce" instead of "http://localhost/mailman/admin/linux-announce". It is like somewhere "localhost/mailman/listinfo" is inserting itself where just "localhost/mailman/" should be. Would someone be able to tell me where I screwed this up? Thanks for your patience, Leah I can't believe it's not UNIX!!! ------------------------------------------------------------ Leah Cunningham | PPC QA, Business Support & www.heinous.org | QA & Linux geek, et al. From lennu at tietoverkot.net Thu May 31 00:19:26 2001 From: lennu at tietoverkot.net (Len Merikanto) Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 01:19:26 +0300 (EEST) Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problems. Message-ID: I upgraded to latest mailman version and it seems now sum of the mailing lists send multiple posts to the mailing lists even only 1 message is sent. any clues where to look for the problem at? Len Merikanto, Phone: +358968691950 Tietoverkot Oy Mobile: +358409008494 Munkkisaarenkatu 2 Fax: +358968691935 00150 Helsinki, Finland From techgrrl at beeze.com Thu May 31 00:36:48 2001 From: techgrrl at beeze.com (Sarah K. Miller) Date: Wed, 30 May 2001 15:36:48 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to compile all addresses subbed to all lists on a system References: <026701c0e49d$a69e6250$0200010a@home.beeze.com> <20010524170929.R2865@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <012c01c0e959$03fb0ec0$0200010a@home.beeze.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Bradford" > On Thu, May 24, 2001 at 03:05:31PM -0700, Sarah K. Miller wrote: > > Have any of you found an automated way to slurp all of the addresses off > > of all the lists on your system and then subscribe them to another list > > on the system? > > bin/list_users > /tmp/list1.txt > bin/add_members /tmp/list1.txt Here's the solution I came up with. Much easier then doing it for each individual list. In my case, it's set as a cron job to run in the middle of the night every night. Note: de-announce is the name of the master list I'm using -- replace it with the list of your choice. --------------------- #!/bin/ksh /home/mailman/bin/remove_members -a de-announce cd /home/mailman/lists/ for i in `ls` do echo $i touch /home/mailman/tmp/masterlist.txt /home/mailman/bin/list_members -o /home/mailman/tmp/masterlist.txt $i /home/mailman/bin/add_members -n /home/mailman/tmp/masterlist.txt -w n de-announce rm /home/mailman/tmp/masterlist.txt done -------------------- -- Sarah From rbp at netcanvas.com Thu May 31 00:58:49 2001 From: rbp at netcanvas.com (Rodrigo Borges Pereira) Date: Wed, 30 May 2001 23:58:49 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Red Hat 7.1 In-Reply-To: <6A36A4FF313F4D459920D206EDF68BC70325E4@naboo.mgdesign.net> Message-ID: Re: [Mailman-Users] Red Hat 7.1I'm using mailman with RH 7.1 with qmail. very very nice. the only problems i had were my fault (permissions) -----Original Message----- From: Mike T. Gholson [mailto:mailman-users-admin at python.org]On Behalf Of Mike T. Gholson Sent: quarta-feira, 30 de Maio de 2001 23:05 To: Erik; Jayne Cc: mailman-users at python.org Subject: RE: [Mailman-Users] Red Hat 7.1 I've been having troubles getting Mailman to work correctly on 7.1. Wierd stuff with sendmail. I should try to upgrade my Python. 1.5.2 comes with Redhat 7.1 -----Original Message----- From: Erik Sent: Wed 5/30/2001 1:56 PM To: Jayne Cc: mailman-users at python.org Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Red Hat 7.1 > Has anyone got this to work on Red Hat 7.1? I didn't have any problems.. ALthough, I'm not sure what the stock version of PYthon is with RH 7.1.. I used 1.6 I believe.. I couldn't get mailman to work at all with any of the python 2.x versions. Erik "Security is a process, not a product." ------------------------------------------------------ Mailman-Users maillist - Mailman-Users at python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20010530/54d04b1e/attachment.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: winmail.dat Type: application/ms-tnef Size: 1116 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20010530/54d04b1e/attachment.bin From mike at mgdesign.net Thu May 31 03:36:34 2001 From: mike at mgdesign.net (Mike T. Gholson) Date: Wed, 30 May 2001 18:36:34 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] linking problem Message-ID: <6A36A4FF313F4D459920D206EDF68BC703225B@naboo.mgdesign.net> Using RH 7.1... I copied the other ScriptAlias entries by using single quotes around the '/usr/lib/mailma....' -----Original Message----- From: Leah Cunningham [mailto:leah at unleashed.org] Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2001 3:09 PM To: mailman-users at python.org Subject: [Mailman-Users] linking problem Hello, There is probably a very simple explanation for this, but I am new to using mailman and am unsure what the cause is. I have mailman set up with sendmail and the apache webserver. I configured the httpd.conf with the line: ScriptAlias /mailman/ "/usr/lib/mailman/cgi-bin/" If I go to http://localhost/mailman/listinfo, for example, things look fine . . . however all of my links include an extra "lisinfo". For example a list called linux-announce is linked as "http://localhost/mailman/listinfo/listinfo/linux-announce" when it should be "http://localhost/mailman/listinfo/linux-announce". Or, if I go to http://localhost/mailman/admin, the link for linux-announce changes to "http://localhost/mailman/listinfo/admin/linux-announce" instead of "http://localhost/mailman/admin/linux-announce". It is like somewhere "localhost/mailman/listinfo" is inserting itself where just "localhost/mailman/" should be. Would someone be able to tell me where I screwed this up? Thanks for your patience, Leah I can't believe it's not UNIX!!! ------------------------------------------------------------ Leah Cunningham | PPC QA, Business Support & www.heinous.org | QA & Linux geek, et al. ------------------------------------------------------ Mailman-Users maillist - Mailman-Users at python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users From leah at unleashed.org Thu May 31 04:45:25 2001 From: leah at unleashed.org (Leah Cunningham) Date: Wed, 30 May 2001 19:45:25 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] linking problem In-Reply-To: <6A36A4FF313F4D459920D206EDF68BC703225B@naboo.mgdesign.net>; from mike@mgdesign.net on Wed, May 30, 2001 at 06:36:34PM -0700 References: <6A36A4FF313F4D459920D206EDF68BC703225B@naboo.mgdesign.net> Message-ID: <20010530194525.A71966@unleashed.org> I will try that tomorrow and let you know if it makes a difference. Cheers, Leah Mike T. Gholson (mike at mgdesign.net) [010530 18:37]: - > Using RH 7.1... I copied the other ScriptAlias entries - > by using single quotes around the '/usr/lib/mailma....' - > - > - > -----Original Message----- - > From: Leah Cunningham [mailto:leah at unleashed.org] - > Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2001 3:09 PM - > To: mailman-users at python.org - > Subject: [Mailman-Users] linking problem - > - > - > Hello, - > - > There is probably a very simple explanation for this, but I am new - > to using mailman and am unsure what the cause is. I have mailman - > set up with sendmail and the apache webserver. I configured the - > httpd.conf with the line: - > - > ScriptAlias /mailman/ "/usr/lib/mailman/cgi-bin/" - > - > If I go to http://localhost/mailman/listinfo, for example, things - > look fine . . . however all of my links include an extra "lisinfo". - > For example a list called linux-announce is linked as - > "http://localhost/mailman/listinfo/listinfo/linux-announce" when it - > should be "http://localhost/mailman/listinfo/linux-announce". - > - > Or, if I go to http://localhost/mailman/admin, the link for - > linux-announce changes to - > "http://localhost/mailman/listinfo/admin/linux-announce" instead of - > "http://localhost/mailman/admin/linux-announce". It is like - > somewhere "localhost/mailman/listinfo" is inserting itself where - > just "localhost/mailman/" should be. Would someone be able to tell - > me where I screwed this up? - > - > Thanks for your patience, - > Leah - > - > I can't believe it's not UNIX!!! - > ------------------------------------------------------------ - > Leah Cunningham | PPC QA, Business Support & - > www.heinous.org | QA & Linux geek, et al. - > - > ------------------------------------------------------ - > Mailman-Users maillist - Mailman-Users at python.org - > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users I can't believe it's not UNIX!!! ------------------------------------------------------------ Leah Cunningham | PPC QA, Business Support & www.heinous.org | QA & Linux geek, et al. From pat at webexplorers.com.au Thu May 31 13:10:33 2001 From: pat at webexplorers.com.au (Patrick Griffin) Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 21:10:33 +1000 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Footers and Archives Message-ID: <002a01c0e9c2$506fb800$0100a8c0@pat> Hi all, Does anyone know why I can't add a footer to the e mails I send to the list in non digest mode but it works fine if I change all the users to digest mode. I am running a moderated list and I also cannot view the archives unless I make them public. Regards Pat -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20010531/6369a530/attachment.html From leah at unleashed.org Thu May 31 15:24:43 2001 From: leah at unleashed.org (Leah Cunningham) Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 06:24:43 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] linking problem In-Reply-To: <6A36A4FF313F4D459920D206EDF68BC703225B@naboo.mgdesign.net>; from mike@mgdesign.net on Wed, May 30, 2001 at 06:36:34PM -0700 References: <6A36A4FF313F4D459920D206EDF68BC703225B@naboo.mgdesign.net> Message-ID: <20010531062443.A73672@unleashed.org> I double checked this with single quotes, but that does not make a difference. Somewhere something is causing these URL's to be generated with the wrong path. Mike T. Gholson (mike at mgdesign.net) [010530 18:37]: - > Using RH 7.1... I copied the other ScriptAlias entries - > by using single quotes around the '/usr/lib/mailma....' - > - > - > -----Original Message----- - > From: Leah Cunningham [mailto:leah at unleashed.org] - > Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2001 3:09 PM - > To: mailman-users at python.org - > Subject: [Mailman-Users] linking problem - > - > - > Hello, - > - > There is probably a very simple explanation for this, but I am new - > to using mailman and am unsure what the cause is. I have mailman - > set up with sendmail and the apache webserver. I configured the - > httpd.conf with the line: - > - > ScriptAlias /mailman/ "/usr/lib/mailman/cgi-bin/" - > - > If I go to http://localhost/mailman/listinfo, for example, things - > look fine . . . however all of my links include an extra "lisinfo". - > For example a list called linux-announce is linked as - > "http://localhost/mailman/listinfo/listinfo/linux-announce" when it - > should be "http://localhost/mailman/listinfo/linux-announce". - > - > Or, if I go to http://localhost/mailman/admin, the link for - > linux-announce changes to - > "http://localhost/mailman/listinfo/admin/linux-announce" instead of - > "http://localhost/mailman/admin/linux-announce". It is like - > somewhere "localhost/mailman/listinfo" is inserting itself where - > just "localhost/mailman/" should be. Would someone be able to tell - > me where I screwed this up? - > - > Thanks for your patience, - > Leah - > - > I can't believe it's not UNIX!!! - > ------------------------------------------------------------ - > Leah Cunningham | PPC QA, Business Support & - > www.heinous.org | QA & Linux geek, et al. - > - > ------------------------------------------------------ - > Mailman-Users maillist - Mailman-Users at python.org - > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users I can't believe it's not UNIX!!! ------------------------------------------------------------ Leah Cunningham | PPC QA, Business Support & www.heinous.org | QA & Linux geek, et al. From leah at unleashed.org Thu May 31 16:18:07 2001 From: leah at unleashed.org (Leah Cunningham) Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 07:18:07 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] linking problem In-Reply-To: <991318783.1381.1.camel@localhost.localdomain>; from arif@welfarelaw.org on Thu, May 31, 2001 at 10:19:42AM -0400 References: <6A36A4FF313F4D459920D206EDF68BC703225B@naboo.mgdesign.net> <20010531062443.A73672@unleashed.org> <991318783.1381.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20010531071806.B73672@unleashed.org> It looks like I have figured out the problem. I created another test list, and it works correctly. Now I have problems with the setgid bit . . . I guess I have to recompile. Arif Mamdani (arif at welfarelaw.org) [010531 07:14]: - > You may want to check your Defaults.py and mm_cfg.py files. I had a - > problem with extra / being generated in my links, which I tracked down - > to an extra / in one of those files. - > - > -arif - > - > On 31 May 2001 06:24:43 -0700, Leah Cunningham wrote: - > > I double checked this with single quotes, but that does not make a - > > difference. Somewhere something is causing these URL's to be - > > generated with the wrong path. - > > - > > Mike T. Gholson (mike at mgdesign.net) [010530 18:37]: - > > - > Using RH 7.1... I copied the other ScriptAlias entries - > > - > by using single quotes around the '/usr/lib/mailma....' - > > - > - > > - > - > > - > -----Original Message----- - > > - > From: Leah Cunningham [mailto:leah at unleashed.org] - > > - > Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2001 3:09 PM - > > - > To: mailman-users at python.org - > > - > Subject: [Mailman-Users] linking problem - > > - > - > > - > - > > - > Hello, - > > - > - > > - > There is probably a very simple explanation for this, but I am new - > > - > to using mailman and am unsure what the cause is. I have mailman - > > - > set up with sendmail and the apache webserver. I configured the - > > - > httpd.conf with the line: - > > - > - > > - > ScriptAlias /mailman/ "/usr/lib/mailman/cgi-bin/" - > > - > - > > - > If I go to http://localhost/mailman/listinfo, for example, things - > > - > look fine . . . however all of my links include an extra "lisinfo". - > > - > For example a list called linux-announce is linked as - > > - > "http://localhost/mailman/listinfo/listinfo/linux-announce" when it - > > - > should be "http://localhost/mailman/listinfo/linux-announce". - > > - > - > > - > Or, if I go to http://localhost/mailman/admin, the link for - > > - > linux-announce changes to - > > - > "http://localhost/mailman/listinfo/admin/linux-announce" instead of - > > - > "http://localhost/mailman/admin/linux-announce". It is like - > > - > somewhere "localhost/mailman/listinfo" is inserting itself where - > > - > just "localhost/mailman/" should be. Would someone be able to tell - > > - > me where I screwed this up? - > > - > - > > - > Thanks for your patience, - > > - > Leah - > > - > - > > - > I can't believe it's not UNIX!!! - > > - > ------------------------------------------------------------ - > > - > Leah Cunningham | PPC QA, Business Support & - > > - > www.heinous.org | QA & Linux geek, et al. - > > - > - > > - > ------------------------------------------------------ - > > - > Mailman-Users maillist - Mailman-Users at python.org - > > - > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users - > > - > > I can't believe it's not UNIX!!! - > > ------------------------------------------------------------ - > > Leah Cunningham | PPC QA, Business Support & - > > www.heinous.org | QA & Linux geek, et al. - > > - > > ------------------------------------------------------ - > > Mailman-Users maillist - Mailman-Users at python.org - > > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users - > - > -- - > Arif Mamdani, Circuit Rider - > LINC Project -- Welfare Law Center - > www.lincproject.org www.welfarelaw.org - > p: 212.633.6967 - > arif at welfarelaw.org I can't believe it's not UNIX!!! ------------------------------------------------------------ Leah Cunningham | PPC QA, Business Support & www.heinous.org | QA & Linux geek, et al. From uhlmann at cs.uni-potsdam.de Fri May 25 11:37:31 2001 From: uhlmann at cs.uni-potsdam.de (Stephan Uhlmann) Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 11:37:31 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] how to send reject reason to list-owner? Message-ID: <01052511490000.03904@teefax> Hello all, when I reject a mail to a moderated list, is there a possibility to send a copy of the reject notifictaion also to "list-owner"? The "Additionally forward this message to" feature only sends the original mail, but not the reject reason. We're several moderators and I want to inform the others that I rejected a message and why. Thank you, Stephan From cmrhs at mossc.com Fri May 25 18:19:21 2001 From: cmrhs at mossc.com (Chuck Moss) Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 12:19:21 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: mailman on RH7.1 still having problems In-Reply-To: <0105251203211W.01505@kennedy.cit.com.br>; from mads@cit.com.br on Fri, May 25, 2001 at 12:03:21PM -0300 References: <0105251203211W.01505@kennedy.cit.com.br> Message-ID: <20010525121921.A17447@mossc.com> On Fri, May 25, 2001 at 12:03:21PM -0300, Mads Rasmussen wrote: > > I still cannot create a new list properly. The link in the archives/public > dir points to a nonexisting file in the archives/private dir > > Anyone seen this? I think this may be the same bug I came across. From my bugzilla report: in the file /var/mailman/Mailman/mm_cfg.py The entry for PRIVATE_ARCHIVE_URL = '/mailman/private/' should be PRIVATE_ARCHIVE_URL = '/mailman/private' This is the default in Defaults.py It is overriden in mm_cfg.py This causes the system to generate broken urls when archives are swtiched from public to private. #32337 > > Another problem, no messages to lists get send, my qfiles dir is growing with > nonsend messages. The notification emails when creating a new list get send > also when adding a member. Make sure you didn't lose your aliases entries for your mailing lists. check /etc/aliases* Chuck Moss > > I do not know what to do, this was working on RH 6.1 and after I upgraded it > doesn't. > > Any help is much appriciated > > Regards, > > Mads > > > > _______________________________________________ > Seawolf-list mailing list > Seawolf-list at redhat.com > https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/seawolf-list From pat at webexplorers.com.au Fri May 25 23:59:52 2001 From: pat at webexplorers.com.au (Patrick Griffin) Date: Sat, 26 May 2001 07:59:52 +1000 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Footer Message-ID: <02aa01c0e566$08120f00$0100a8c0@pat> I am attempting to add a Footer to mail sent to regular list members and although it appears on the list web page it is not visible on the end users E Mail can you tell me why. Sincerely Patrick Griffin. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20010526/17ac19ac/attachment.htm From jcdill at vo.cnchost.com Sat May 26 21:02:05 2001 From: jcdill at vo.cnchost.com (JC Dill) Date: Sat, 26 May 2001 12:02:05 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Vhosts with Mailman 2.05 In-Reply-To: References: <004f01c0deaa$3f97e660$1499ca3f@disappointment> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010520101320.02e80500@pop3.vo.cnchost.com> On 11:02 PM 5/19/01, Darron Froese wrote: >On 5/17/01 2:20 AM, "N6REJ" wrote: > >> Hello all. >> Pardon me for really sounding lame, but I'm having a heck of a time finding >> any documentation that explains how to modify mailman so that it will answer >> for vhosts also. > >Everything you need has been posted to the list multiple times. Apparently you assume the person is subscribed to the list, which isn't necessarily true (and if you have been subscribed for any length of time you would obviously know this because the open nature of this list has been a hot topic of discussion in the not-too-distant-past). Then you assume the person has been subscribed for long enough to have seen the question pass by, which is pretty likely to be false (or else, why ask the question at all?). Finally, if you think saying "go search the list archives before posting" is a good rebuttal to my 2 items above, why don't you try doing it yourself and then see if it's an answer? (Note, the search function has been fixed somewhat since I wrote this, but is still flawed in that you need specific instructions on how to search to get good results.) (And then think about how a *non-subscriber* is supposed to even know of the existence or location of the archives in the first place...) This list has a lot of traffic problems created by "how people find and post to the list". The first problem is that it's regularly used in place of a FAQ because no one has made a FAQ readily available (in the way the list posting address is readily available). Solution? Link to the FAQ pages before giving out the list email address on the mailman website (give out the email address only at the bottom of a FAQ TOC page) and link to the FAQ in the readme, instead of giving out this address. The second problem is that the list archives are not easily or readily searchable (recently fixed, somewhat), so if the question isn't a "frequently asked" one, but the answer *is* somewhere in the archives, it isn't easily found, so we get the question here again. Solution? Better archive search feature. Again, link to the "search the archives" page first, before giving out the "post to the list" address. The third problem is that the software itself doesn't clearly encourage people to read the FAQs and webpages that already exist before posting to this list. For instance, the excellent website at: is found in the readme, but not on the mailman website, while the email address for posting to this list is found on the website, in fact it's on the website's homepage. When you install mailman you may install it in a different location from where you uncompressed it. If so, the readme will remain where you uncompressed it and NOT be included in the install directory, so you will have a harder time *finding* the readme when you are poking around in your installed mailman files looking for answers. Solution? The readme needs to be put with the install files when the program is installed, and needs to point to web-accessible solutions before giving people an email address to ask that which has already been asked, (and answered, and is readily available if we would just LINK TO IT and point people to it!). Finally, since I happen to have a local archive of posts to this list since I subscribed, I quickly searched my archive and forwarded 2 posts to the OP (including one that was written by Darron and posted to this list a few days ago) that will hopefully help get him pointed in the correct direction. See how helpful and easy that was? jc From mitesh at rcl.co.tz Sun May 27 14:33:05 2001 From: mitesh at rcl.co.tz (Cyberdude Murli) Date: Sun, 27 May 2001 15:33:05 +0300 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman rules Message-ID: <3B10F401.831C61A4@rcl.co.tz> This is too good. I feel stupid that I was not using it since day 1. An addition to the INSTALL is required. I had to remark # include in /usr/include/..errno.h wrapper does not compile otherwise. rgrds, Cyberdude Murli The Earth From enriko.groen at netivity.nl Mon May 28 10:10:37 2001 From: enriko.groen at netivity.nl (Enriko Groen) Date: Mon, 28 May 2001 10:10:37 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] GID Problems, big headache Message-ID: <510EAC2065C0D311929200A024725262262536@NETIVITY-FS> > -----Original Message----- > From: Zimmer [mailto:captain_trek at yahoo.com] > > Ok, i have a problem with my GID setting. I had the same probs with my installation (mailman-2.05 + postfix + FreeBSD). However I did so many things to solve this problem that I'm not sure now what really fixed it. Have you made a separate aliases file for mailman like suggested in the installation FAQ? From enriko.groen at netivity.nl Mon May 28 14:02:47 2001 From: enriko.groen at netivity.nl (Enriko Groen) Date: Mon, 28 May 2001 14:02:47 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] No confirm & localisation Message-ID: <510EAC2065C0D311929200A0247252622F76F5@NETIVITY-FS> > -----Original Message----- > From: barry at digicool.com [mailto:barry at digicool.com] > EG> Is it possible to add members by sending an email containing > EG> "subscribe " without needing a > EG> confirm message from the recipient? I know I can do this > EG> through the add_member command but I would like to do this > EG> through the mail-interface. > > I believe that if you use the list-owners' password you don't need > confirmation. I'd have to double check that though (note to Marc: you > may want to double check this too! ;). I checked it... however you still need to confirm a subscription. Is there an other way to bypass it? > The current CVS tree -- what will become Mailman 2.1 -- has all the > i18n stuff integrated. There are still a few glitches in the current > snapshot, but I'll try to clear those up today. Mailman 2.1 isn't > ready for prime time yet though, but if you're interested in > translating the catalog and templates for Dutch, that would be great > (I'm sure Guido would agree. :). Always good... so as I understand, there isn't a dutch catalog available at this moment? Well, sign me up for it then! -- -------------------------------------------------------- netivity bv www.netivity.nl enriko.groen at netivity.nl 038 - 850 1000 van nagellstraat 4 8011 eb zwolle -------------------------------------------------------- From root at velenje.cx Mon May 28 20:06:20 2001 From: root at velenje.cx (Samo Gabrovec) Date: 28 May 2001 20:06:20 CEST Subject: [Mailman-Users] pending.. Message-ID: <200105281806.f4SI6MF11590@gekko.velenje.cx> Hi! I`ve installed mailman today and i ran into a problem which is .. i try to subscribe i get the mail which i reply at then nothing happens (no welcome note) the error log is empty the subscribe log has only entries like this -------- May 28 19:25:49 2001 (17945) mitja: pending mitja at velenje.cx 195.210.204.104 -------- If i go to the "Tend to pending administrative requests" there`s nothing there and also there is no user shows wich i tried to subscribe with. the qfiles dir has several files in it [43]. I also tried adding user by hand with the add_members command in the bin dir which was sucsesfull but i never got any mail from the list [i did however got the welcome note] too. I did link the /etc/smrsh/wrapper -> /home/mailman/mail/wrapper and i just cant see where to look for errors. I also did insert the crontab. Has something like that ever happened to anyone here ? If you know what could be wrong tell me.. Thanks Mitja From raif at speakeasy.net Thu May 31 04:46:09 2001 From: raif at speakeasy.net (arif) Date: 30 May 2001 22:46:09 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Users] linking problem In-Reply-To: <6A36A4FF313F4D459920D206EDF68BC703225B@naboo.mgdesign.net> References: <6A36A4FF313F4D459920D206EDF68BC703225B@naboo.mgdesign.net> Message-ID: <991277169.2762.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> You may also want to check your Defaults.py and mm_cfg.my files. I had an odd problem with extra // in my links that was caused by an extra / in my mm_cfg.py file. -arif On 30 May 2001 18:36:34 -0700, Mike T. Gholson wrote: > Using RH 7.1... I copied the other ScriptAlias entries > by using single quotes around the '/usr/lib/mailma....' > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Leah Cunningham [mailto:leah at unleashed.org] > Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2001 3:09 PM > To: mailman-users at python.org > Subject: [Mailman-Users] linking problem > > > Hello, > > There is probably a very simple explanation for this, but I am new > to using mailman and am unsure what the cause is. I have mailman > set up with sendmail and the apache webserver. I configured the > httpd.conf with the line: > > ScriptAlias /mailman/ "/usr/lib/mailman/cgi-bin/" > > If I go to http://localhost/mailman/listinfo, for example, things > look fine . . . however all of my links include an extra "lisinfo". > For example a list called linux-announce is linked as > "http://localhost/mailman/listinfo/listinfo/linux-announce" when it > should be "http://localhost/mailman/listinfo/linux-announce". > > Or, if I go to http://localhost/mailman/admin, the link for > linux-announce changes to > "http://localhost/mailman/listinfo/admin/linux-announce" instead of > "http://localhost/mailman/admin/linux-announce". It is like > somewhere "localhost/mailman/listinfo" is inserting itself where > just "localhost/mailman/" should be. Would someone be able to tell > me where I screwed this up? > > Thanks for your patience, > Leah > > I can't believe it's not UNIX!!! > ------------------------------------------------------------ > Leah Cunningham | PPC QA, Business Support & > www.heinous.org | QA & Linux geek, et al. > > ------------------------------------------------------ > Mailman-Users maillist - Mailman-Users at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users > > ------------------------------------------------------ > Mailman-Users maillist - Mailman-Users at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users -- Arif Mamdani, Circuit Rider LINC Project -- Welfare Law Center www.lincproject.org www.welfarelaw.org p: 212.633.6967 arif at welfarelaw.org From fil at rezo.net Tue May 29 21:06:11 2001 From: fil at rezo.net (Fil) Date: Tue, 29 May 2001 21:06:11 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Is it possible In-Reply-To: <4BC10D47D7ACD3119FA800104B1F883668ECFA@exchange.cigital.com>; from yanek@cigital.com on Tue, May 29, 2001 at 02:54:41PM -0400 References: <4BC10D47D7ACD3119FA800104B1F883668ECFA@exchange.cigital.com> Message-ID: <20010529210611.A2548@orwell.bok.net> @ Yanek Korff (yanek at cigital.com) : > This cannot be done on a global scale? Yes, just modify the template file located in /home/mailman/templates/listinfo.html > Then edit the contents of the web pages, remove that option. > > from the admin/listname page, the link for doing this is in the > second column, marked * Edit the HTML for the public list pages From house_98 at hotmail.com Thu May 31 23:44:58 2001 From: house_98 at hotmail.com (M Hudson) Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 21:44:58 -0000 Subject: [Mailman-Users] first message Message-ID: hello world _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com