From mcobb at cobbcomm.com  Fri Jun  1 00:24:22 2001
From: mcobb at cobbcomm.com (Michael Cobb)
Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 15:24:22 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bad Karma, or stupid fingers
Message-ID: <FEEJJNACPOJJCHOGHBEEMEMLCAAA.mcobb@cobbcomm.com>

Folks,

I just upgraded to Redhat 7.1. I also upgraded mailman from the .05 Beta to
the
2.0.1-2 RPM.

I made the change to httpd.conf for Scriptalias.
I edited mm_cfg.py acordingly.

Since this is an RPM all the userid's (mailman etc) is added.
I ran /bin/check_perms -f and got:

Traceback (innermost last):
File "./check_perms", line 50, in ?
MAILMAN_GRPNAME = grp.getgrgid(MAILMAN_GID)[0]
TypeError: illegal argument type for built-in operation.

So, the directory and file permissions are NOT correct re:set for mailman.

I ran check_perms as root. Why does it puke?

Helppppppppppppppppppppppppp.

Regards
Mike







From dmick at utopia.West.Sun.COM  Fri Jun  1 00:34:58 2001
From: dmick at utopia.West.Sun.COM (Dan Mick)
Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 15:34:58 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bad Karma, or stupid fingers
Message-ID: <200105312234.PAA02734@utopia.West.Sun.COM>

> MAILMAN_GRPNAME = grp.getgrgid(MAILMAN_GID)[0]
> TypeError: illegal argument type for built-in operation.

Gee, doesn't this just scream to you that you should check the value
of MAILMAN_GID?

It sure does to me, using nothing more than English punctuation 
skills...




From mike at mgdesign.net  Fri Jun  1 01:26:48 2001
From: mike at mgdesign.net (Mike T. Gholson)
Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 16:26:48 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: mailman on RH7.1 still having problems
Message-ID: <6A36A4FF313F4D459920D206EDF68BC703226E@naboo.mgdesign.net>

> -----Original Message-----
> > Another problem, no messages to lists get send, my qfiles 
> dir is growing with 
> > nonsend messages. The notification emails when creating a 
> new list get send 
> > also when adding a member.
> 
> Make sure you didn't lose your aliases entries for your mailing lists.
> check /etc/aliases*
> 
> Chuck Moss
------------------------

I see that mailman uses sendmails aliases file.  In theory, should
a new list be added to the aliases file every time a new list is
created?

My mailman configuration is not adding the appropriate list name to
the aliases file.  Could this be a permission problem?




From dan at tangledhelix.com  Fri Jun  1 05:13:23 2001
From: dan at tangledhelix.com (Dan Lowe)
Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 23:13:23 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: mailman on RH7.1 still having problems
In-Reply-To: <6A36A4FF313F4D459920D206EDF68BC703226E@naboo.mgdesign.net>; from mike@mgdesign.net on Thu, May 31, 2001 at 04:26:48PM -0700
References: <6A36A4FF313F4D459920D206EDF68BC703226E@naboo.mgdesign.net>
Message-ID: <20010531231323.A22085@tangledhelix.com>

[recipient list trimmed to get rid of everything but poster and
 the mailman-users list]

Previously, Mike T. Gholson said:
>
> I see that mailman uses sendmails aliases file.  In theory, should
> a new list be added to the aliases file every time a new list is
> created?

If you are using Sendmail, yes.

> My mailman configuration is not adding the appropriate list name to
> the aliases file.  Could this be a permission problem?

Mailman doesn't add anything to the alias file - that is up to the
administrator of the system to do.  The 'newlist' script will spit out a
ready-made bit of text you can cut-and-paste into your alias file, but you
still have to actually do that.

 -dan

-- 
Age is a very high price to pay for maturity.  -George Carlin



From claw at kanga.nu  Fri Jun  1 06:07:38 2001
From: claw at kanga.nu (J C Lawrence)
Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 21:07:38 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] how to send reject reason to list-owner? 
In-Reply-To: Message from Stephan Uhlmann <uhlmann@cs.uni-potsdam.de> 
   of "Fri, 25 May 2001 11:37:31 +0200." <01052511490000.03904@teefax> 
References: <01052511490000.03904@teefax> 
Message-ID: <14337.991368458@kanga.nu>

On Fri, 25 May 2001 11:37:31 +0200 
Stephan Uhlmann <uhlmann at cs.uni-potsdam.de> wrote:

> Hello all, when I reject a mail to a moderated list, is there a
> possibility to send a copy of the reject notifictaion also to
> "list-owner"? The "Additionally forward this message to" feature
> only sends the original mail, but not the reject reason.

It also seems that Mailman no longer attaches the rejected message
to the bottom of the rejection.  Ughh.  Bad stuff.  My users are
bitching about this (I have a moderately high rejection rate) as its
now a lot more difficult for them to go back and recreate the
original message so they can fix and resubmit it.

-- 
J C Lawrence                                       claw at kanga.nu
---------(*)                          http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/
The pressure to survive and rhetoric may make strange bedfellows



From claw at kanga.nu  Fri Jun  1 06:08:33 2001
From: claw at kanga.nu (J C Lawrence)
Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 21:08:33 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Footer 
In-Reply-To: Message from "Patrick Griffin" <pat@webexplorers.com.au> 
   of "Sat, 26 May 2001 07:59:52 +1000." <02aa01c0e566$08120f00$0100a8c0@pat> 
References: <02aa01c0e566$08120f00$0100a8c0@pat> 
Message-ID: <16056.991368513@kanga.nu>

On Sat, 26 May 2001 07:59:52 +1000 
Patrick Griffin <pat at webexplorers.com.au> wrote:

> I am attempting to add a Footer to mail sent to regular list
> members and although it appears on the list web page it is not
> visible on the end users E Mail can you tell me why.  

FAQ: Because they are MIME messages and footers currently don't work
with MIME messages.

-- 
J C Lawrence                                       claw at kanga.nu
---------(*)                          http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/
The pressure to survive and rhetoric may make strange bedfellows



From claw at kanga.nu  Fri Jun  1 06:11:06 2001
From: claw at kanga.nu (J C Lawrence)
Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 21:11:06 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: mailman on RH7.1 still having problems 
In-Reply-To: Message from "Mike T. Gholson" <mike@mgdesign.net> 
   of "Thu, 31 May 2001 16:26:48 PDT." <6A36A4FF313F4D459920D206EDF68BC703226E@naboo.mgdesign.net> 
References: <6A36A4FF313F4D459920D206EDF68BC703226E@naboo.mgdesign.net> 
Message-ID: <20933.991368666@kanga.nu>

On Thu, 31 May 2001 16:26:48 -0700 
Mike T Gholson <mike at mgdesign.net> wrote:

> I see that mailman uses sendmails aliases file.  In theory, should
> a new list be added to the aliases file every time a new list is
> created?

Depending on your MTA and its configuration, yes, this is true.
Some MTAs, such as Exim and Postfix, can be configured to not need a
list alias file at all.

> My mailman configuration is not adding the appropriate list name
> to the aliases file.  Could this be a permission problem?

No.  You need to manually add the aliases as provided by newlist.

-- 
J C Lawrence                                       claw at kanga.nu
---------(*)                          http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/
The pressure to survive and rhetoric may make strange bedfellows



From mike at mgdesign.net  Fri Jun  1 06:19:34 2001
From: mike at mgdesign.net (Mike T. Gholson)
Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 21:19:34 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: mailman on RH7.1 still having problems
Message-ID: <6A36A4FF313F4D459920D206EDF68BC7032271@naboo.mgdesign.net>

Where does the newlist command put the appropriate script
that I need to add to my aliases file?

[m]


-----Original Message-----
From: Dan Lowe [mailto:dan at tangledhelix.com]
Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2001 8:13 PM
To: Mike T. Gholson
Cc: mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Re: mailman on RH7.1 still having problems


[recipient list trimmed to get rid of everything but poster and
 the mailman-users list]

Previously, Mike T. Gholson said:
>
> I see that mailman uses sendmails aliases file.  In theory, should
> a new list be added to the aliases file every time a new list is
> created?

If you are using Sendmail, yes.

> My mailman configuration is not adding the appropriate list name to
> the aliases file.  Could this be a permission problem?

Mailman doesn't add anything to the alias file - that is up to the
administrator of the system to do.  The 'newlist' script will spit out a
ready-made bit of text you can cut-and-paste into your alias file, but
you
still have to actually do that.

 -dan

-- 
Age is a very high price to pay for maturity.  -George Carlin



From mike at mgdesign.net  Fri Jun  1 06:22:16 2001
From: mike at mgdesign.net (Mike T. Gholson)
Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 21:22:16 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] A good MTA program?
Message-ID: <6A36A4FF313F4D459920D206EDF68BC7032273@naboo.mgdesign.net>

It doesn't look like sendmail is the greatest MTA for
use with Mailman.  What is a good MTA that seems to work
well with Mailman?

[m]


-----Original Message-----
From: J C Lawrence [mailto:claw at kanga.nu]
Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2001 9:11 PM
To: Mike T. Gholson
Cc: Chuck Moss; seawolf-list at redhat.com; mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Re: mailman on RH7.1 still having problems 


On Thu, 31 May 2001 16:26:48 -0700 
Mike T Gholson <mike at mgdesign.net> wrote:

> I see that mailman uses sendmails aliases file.  In theory, should
> a new list be added to the aliases file every time a new list is
> created?

Depending on your MTA and its configuration, yes, this is true.
Some MTAs, such as Exim and Postfix, can be configured to not need a
list alias file at all.

> My mailman configuration is not adding the appropriate list name
> to the aliases file.  Could this be a permission problem?

No.  You need to manually add the aliases as provided by newlist.

-- 
J C Lawrence                                       claw at kanga.nu
---------(*)                          http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/
The pressure to survive and rhetoric may make strange bedfellows



From juha at saarinen.org  Fri Jun  1 06:22:13 2001
From: juha at saarinen.org (Juha Saarinen)
Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 16:22:13 +1200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mass subscribing users with the same password
Message-ID: <034001c0ea52$6ecb50d0$0a01a8c0@den2>

I'm sure that this question has been asked before, but in the absence of
searchable archives (? how do you search them???), I'll have to ask it
again... how can I subscribe lots of people, giving them the same
password?

I thought of doing it via the email interface, like this:

subscribe password joe at luser.com  
subscribe password joe1 at luser.com  
subscribe password joe2 at luser.com  
subscribe password joe3 at luser.com  
subscribe password joe4 at luser.com  

etc. but that seems a bit inelegant. The add_members command doesn't
accept a password parameter.

Any assistance would be much appreciated.


Cheers,

-- Juha




From juha at saarinen.org  Fri Jun  1 06:25:49 2001
From: juha at saarinen.org (Juha Saarinen)
Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 16:25:49 +1200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: mailman on RH7.1 still having problems
In-Reply-To: <6A36A4FF313F4D459920D206EDF68BC7032271@naboo.mgdesign.net>
Message-ID: <034201c0ea52$ef71e2d0$0a01a8c0@den2>

No, you need to specify the file yourself. I do this after I've su'd to
the mailman user, like this:

bin/newlist -o mailman-aliases

(Looks like you can add the password plus the email of the listmanager
as well to the command line.)

Then, I run "postalias mailman-aliases" (as I use Postfix); you might
need to do "newaliases mailman-aliases" if you run Sendmail.

-- Juha

:: -----Original Message-----
:: From: mailman-users-admin at python.org 
:: [mailto:mailman-users-admin at python.org] On Behalf Of Mike T. Gholson
:: Sent: Friday, 1 June 2001 16:20
:: To: dan at tangledhelix.com
:: Cc: mailman-users at python.org
:: Subject: RE: [Mailman-Users] Re: mailman on RH7.1 still 
:: having problems
:: 
:: 
:: Where does the newlist command put the appropriate script
:: that I need to add to my aliases file?
:: 
:: [m]
:: 
:: 




From chuqui at plaidworks.com  Fri Jun  1 06:28:04 2001
From: chuqui at plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach)
Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 21:28:04 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] A good MTA program?
In-Reply-To: <6A36A4FF313F4D459920D206EDF68BC7032273@naboo.mgdesign.net>
Message-ID: <200106010426.f514QAc29774@lists.apple.com>

On Thursday, May 31, 2001, at 09:22 PM, Mike T. Gholson wrote:

> It doesn't look like sendmail is the greatest MTA for
> use with Mailman.  What is a good MTA that seems to work
> well with Mailman?
>

Sendmail works fine. But if you're not committed to sendmail, look at 
postfix

--
Chuq Von Rospach, Internet Gnome <http://www.chuqui.com>
[<chuqui at plaidworks.com> = <me at chuqui.com> = <chuq at apple.com>]
Yes, yes, I've finally finished my home page. Lucky you.

When an agnostic dies, does he go to the "great perhaps"?




From juha at saarinen.org  Fri Jun  1 06:28:20 2001
From: juha at saarinen.org (Juha Saarinen)
Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 16:28:20 +1200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] A good MTA program?
In-Reply-To: <6A36A4FF313F4D459920D206EDF68BC7032273@naboo.mgdesign.net>
Message-ID: <034401c0ea53$49cde7b0$0a01a8c0@den2>

I've had good results with both Postfix and Exim.

-- Juha

:: -----Original Message-----
:: From: mailman-users-admin at python.org 
:: [mailto:mailman-users-admin at python.org] On Behalf Of Mike T. Gholson
:: Sent: Friday, 1 June 2001 16:22
:: To: J C Lawrence
:: Cc: mailman-users at python.org
:: Subject: [Mailman-Users] A good MTA program?
:: 
:: 
:: It doesn't look like sendmail is the greatest MTA for
:: use with Mailman.  What is a good MTA that seems to work
:: well with Mailman?
:: 
:: [m]
:: 




From barry at digicool.com  Fri Jun  1 06:50:50 2001
From: barry at digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 00:50:50 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] how to send reject reason to list-owner?
References: <01052511490000.03904@teefax>
Message-ID: <15127.7978.961200.706955@anthem.wooz.org>

>>>>> "SU" == Stephan Uhlmann <uhlmann at cs.uni-potsdam.de> writes:

    SU> when I reject a mail to a moderated list, is there a
    SU> possibility to send a copy of the reject notifictaion also to
    SU> "list-owner"? The "Additionally forward this message to"
    SU> feature only sends the original mail, but not the reject
    SU> reason.

    SU> We're several moderators and I want to inform the others that
    SU> I rejected a message and why.

>>>>> "JCL" == J C Lawrence <claw at kanga.nu> writes:

    JCL> It also seems that Mailman no longer attaches the rejected
    JCL> message to the bottom of the rejection.  Ughh.  Bad stuff.
    JCL> My users are bitching about this (I have a moderately high
    JCL> rejection rate) as its now a lot more difficult for them to
    JCL> go back and recreate the original message so they can fix and
    JCL> resubmit it.

Both good suggestions.  I'll make sure to add these to 2.1.

-Barry



From claw at kanga.nu  Fri Jun  1 08:14:11 2001
From: claw at kanga.nu (J C Lawrence)
Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 23:14:11 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: A good MTA program?
In-Reply-To: Message from "Mike T. Gholson" <mike@mgdesign.net> 
   of "Thu, 31 May 2001 21:22:16 PDT." <6A36A4FF313F4D459920D206EDF68BC7032273@naboo.mgdesign.net> 
References: <6A36A4FF313F4D459920D206EDF68BC7032273@naboo.mgdesign.net> 
Message-ID: <30021.991376051@kanga.nu>

On Thu, 31 May 2001 21:22:16 -0700 
Mike T Gholson <mike at mgdesign.net> wrote:

> It doesn't look like sendmail is the greatest MTA for use with
> Mailman.  

I'd argue that sendmail is a pretty poor choice of MTA in general,
but that's a seperate and somewhat religious topic.  That said,
Sendmail does not pose any particular problems WRT Mailman, and
Mailman successfully runs in large numbers of sendmail-using sites.

> What is a good MTA that seems to work well with Mailman?

I would generically recommend either Exim (http://www.exim.org/) or
Postfix (http://www.postfix.org/).  From what I know of your
position I'd priobably recommend Exim in particular.  Nigel has
written an excellant Mailman/Exim HOW-TO (ships with mailman and can
be found on the Exim site) and Exim itself has perhaps the most
human readable and human friendly set of configs of any MTA.

ObDisclosure: I currently use Postfix on all my list servers.  I
used to use Exim.  I still run Exim on other systems (such as the
one I'm typing on now).  I've used both for many months (years in
Exim's case).  I made the change for non-technical reasons.  I like
both.

-- 
J C Lawrence                                       claw at kanga.nu
---------(*)                          http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/
The pressure to survive and rhetoric may make strange bedfellows



From claw at kanga.nu  Fri Jun  1 08:55:59 2001
From: claw at kanga.nu (J C Lawrence)
Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 23:55:59 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: mailman on RH7.1 still having problems 
In-Reply-To: Message from "Mike T. Gholson" <mike@mgdesign.net> 
   of "Thu, 31 May 2001 21:19:34 PDT." <6A36A4FF313F4D459920D206EDF68BC7032271@naboo.mgdesign.net> 
References: <6A36A4FF313F4D459920D206EDF68BC7032271@naboo.mgdesign.net> 
Message-ID: <12648.991378559@kanga.nu>

On Thu, 31 May 2001 21:19:34 -0700 
Mike T Gholson <mike at mgdesign.net> wrote:

> Where does the newlist command put the appropriate script that I
> need to add to my aliases file?

It prints it on stdout.

-- 
J C Lawrence                                       claw at kanga.nu
---------(*)                          http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/
The pressure to survive and rhetoric may make strange bedfellows



From alaric at babylon5.babcom.com  Fri Jun  1 11:24:05 2001
From: alaric at babylon5.babcom.com (Phil Stracchino)
Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 02:24:05 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: mailman on RH7.1 still having problems
In-Reply-To: <20933.991368666@kanga.nu>; from claw@kanga.nu on Thu, May 31, 2001 at 09:11:06PM -0700
References: <6A36A4FF313F4D459920D206EDF68BC703226E@naboo.mgdesign.net> <mike@mgdesign.net> <20933.991368666@kanga.nu>
Message-ID: <20010601022405.A738@babylon5.babcom.com>

On Thu, May 31, 2001 at 09:11:06PM -0700, J C Lawrence wrote:
> Depending on your MTA and its configuration, yes, this is true.
> Some MTAs, such as Exim and Postfix, can be configured to not need a
> list alias file at all.

Really?  Interesting.  I've just switched from sendmail to postfix, and
I haven't learned any trick yet by which this can be accomplished.  What's
the secret?

(I'd also like to be able to get my archives working, but ...  that's
another issue.)


-- 
 Linux Now!   ..........Because friends don't let friends use Microsoft.
 phil stracchino   --   the renaissance man   --   mystic zen biker geek
    Vr00m:  2000 Honda CBR929RR   --   Cage:  2000 Dodge Intrepid R/T
 Previous vr00mage:  1986 VF500F (sold), 1991 VFR750F3 (foully murdered)



From alex at phred.org  Fri Jun  1 15:15:31 2001
From: alex at phred.org (alex wetmore)
Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 06:15:31 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] A good MTA program?
In-Reply-To: <6A36A4FF313F4D459920D206EDF68BC7032273@naboo.mgdesign.net>
Message-ID: <20010601061159.H3701-100000@phred.org>

On Thu, 31 May 2001, Mike T. Gholson wrote:
> It doesn't look like sendmail is the greatest MTA for
> use with Mailman.  What is a good MTA that seems to work
> well with Mailman?

I've had good luck with Sendmail (when my lists were smaller),
Postfix, and now I'm using the Windows 2000 SMTP Service.  One of the
big advantages to the Windows 2000 SMTP Service over Sendmail,
Postfix, or most other Unix-based MTAs is that it can be processing
and sending a single message to many domains at a single time.  This
allows me to set my batching numbers much higher, and reduces
bandwidth utilization on my connection.

Postfix is my favorite Unix MTA, primarily for the concise and helpful
documentation, ease of setup, and good performance.

alex




From rclayton at aprisma.com  Fri Jun  1 15:26:21 2001
From: rclayton at aprisma.com (Clayton, Robert)
Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 09:26:21 -0400 
Subject: [Mailman-Users] (no subject)
Message-ID: <5B628B202658D411AD8700508B7869F8038FE2B2@amt-exc1.aprisma.com>

I have been seeing that my mail threads are not consistently working. 
Can someone tell me what mailMan uses to qualify a mail thread?
Some mail works some are treated as new mail even though they should be threaded.

thanks,
Bob



From nb at thinkcoach.com  Fri Jun  1 15:17:26 2001
From: nb at thinkcoach.com (Norbert Bollow)
Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 15:17:26 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] A good MTA program?
In-Reply-To: <6A36A4FF313F4D459920D206EDF68BC7032273@naboo.mgdesign.net>
	(mike@mgdesign.net)
References: <6A36A4FF313F4D459920D206EDF68BC7032273@naboo.mgdesign.net>
Message-ID: <200106011317.f51DHQq06815@quill>

> It doesn't look like sendmail is the greatest MTA for
> use with Mailman.  What is a good MTA that seems to work
> well with Mailman?

Since it hasn't been mentioned yet... I have found qmail to be a
very good MTA and Mailman works well with it.  You get the added
advantage that you can run some lists (where the web interface
is important) with Mailman and other lists (where you need to get
very high performance with limited resources) with Ezmlm.

Greetings, Norbert.

-- 
Norbert Bollow, Weidlistr.18, CH-8624 Gruet (near Zurich, Switzerland)
Tel +41 1 972 20 59     Fax +41 1 972 20 69      nb at freedevelopers.net



From arif at welfarelaw.org  Fri Jun  1 16:16:25 2001
From: arif at welfarelaw.org (Arif Mamdani)
Date: 01 Jun 2001 10:16:25 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Know of a good anti-virus filter?
Message-ID: <991404987.1379.1.camel@localhost.localdomain>

Hey folks,
I'm wondering if you could reccomend a good anti-virus filter/scanner
thing that I can use to scan the mail going through my lists, ideally
one that would alert me and/or the list admin before sending out mail
that was potentially infected.

thanks,

-arif

-- 
Arif Mamdani, Circuit Rider
LINC Project -- Welfare Law Center
www.lincproject.org www.welfarelaw.org
p:  212.633.6967
arif at welfarelaw.org




From enriko.groen at netivity.nl  Fri Jun  1 16:16:30 2001
From: enriko.groen at netivity.nl (Enriko Groen)
Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 16:16:30 +0200 
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Know of a good anti-virus filter?
Message-ID: <510EAC2065C0D311929200A0247252622F777F@NETIVITY-FS>


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Arif Mamdani [mailto:arif at welfarelaw.org]
> Sent: Friday, June 01, 2001 16:16
> To: mailman-users at python.org
> Subject: [Mailman-Users] Know of a good anti-virus filter?
> 
> Hey folks,
> I'm wondering if you could reccomend a good anti-virus filter/scanner
> thing that I can use to scan the mail going through my lists, ideally
> one that would alert me and/or the list admin before sending out mail
> that was potentially infected.

Okay, this one is pretty basic and probably a bit at 'doh!'-level, but the
best way is to strip any attachments.

Personally I think mailinglists should not be used for attachments... but
that's MHO.

--
Enriko Groen, Hosting manager
--------------------------------------------------------
netivity bv   www.netivity.nl   enriko.groen at netivity.nl
038 - 850 1000   van nagellstraat 4      8011 eb  zwolle
--------------------------------------------------------
 



From Nigel.Metheringham at VData.co.uk  Fri Jun  1 16:22:28 2001
From: Nigel.Metheringham at VData.co.uk (Nigel Metheringham)
Date: 01 Jun 2001 15:22:28 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Message threading
In-Reply-To: <5B628B202658D411AD8700508B7869F8038FE2B2@amt-exc1.aprisma.com>
References: <5B628B202658D411AD8700508B7869F8038FE2B2@amt-exc1.aprisma.com>
Message-ID: <991405353.1110.10.camel@gaspode.localnet>

[Subject fixed]

On 01 Jun 2001 09:26:21 -0400, Clayton, Robert wrote:
> I have been seeing that my mail threads are not consistently working. 
> Can someone tell me what mailMan uses to qualify a mail thread?
> Some mail works some are treated as new mail even though they should be threaded.

Thats not a mailman issue.  Threading is controlled by your MUA (mail
client).  Mailman neither generates, removes or modifies the headers
that are used to thread a group of messages (which are References: and
In-Reply-To:)

    Nigel.

-- 
[ Nigel Metheringham           Nigel.Metheringham at InTechnology.co.uk ]
[ Phone: +44 1423 850000                         Fax +44 1423 858866 ]
[ - Comments in this message are my own and not ITO opinion/policy - ]
[ ----- Security is not an add-on -- security is a way of life ----- ]




From arif at welfarelaw.org  Fri Jun  1 16:37:23 2001
From: arif at welfarelaw.org (Arif Mamdani)
Date: 01 Jun 2001 10:37:23 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Know of a good anti-virus filter?
In-Reply-To: <510EAC2065C0D311929200A0247252622F777F@NETIVITY-FS>
References: <510EAC2065C0D311929200A0247252622F777F@NETIVITY-FS>
Message-ID: <991406245.1379.3.camel@localhost.localdomain>

Stripping attachments would be the ideal, but it's not realistic for
what my lists are being used for.  So, aside from stripping
attachements, what else is out there that will help me cut down on the
number of virus being spread far and wide by users on my lists?  
-arif


On 01 Jun 2001 16:16:30 +0200, Enriko Groen wrote:
> 
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Arif Mamdani [mailto:arif at welfarelaw.org]
> > Sent: Friday, June 01, 2001 16:16
> > To: mailman-users at python.org
> > Subject: [Mailman-Users] Know of a good anti-virus filter?
> > 
> > Hey folks,
> > I'm wondering if you could reccomend a good anti-virus filter/scanner
> > thing that I can use to scan the mail going through my lists, ideally
> > one that would alert me and/or the list admin before sending out mail
> > that was potentially infected.
> 
> Okay, this one is pretty basic and probably a bit at 'doh!'-level, but the
> best way is to strip any attachments.
> 
> Personally I think mailinglists should not be used for attachments... but
> that's MHO.
> 
> --
> Enriko Groen, Hosting manager
> --------------------------------------------------------
> netivity bv   www.netivity.nl   enriko.groen at netivity.nl
> 038 - 850 1000   van nagellstraat 4      8011 eb  zwolle
> --------------------------------------------------------
>  
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users maillist  -  Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users

-- 
Arif Mamdani, Circuit Rider
LINC Project -- Welfare Law Center
www.lincproject.org www.welfarelaw.org
p:  212.633.6967
arif at welfarelaw.org




From nb at thinkcoach.com  Fri Jun  1 16:44:36 2001
From: nb at thinkcoach.com (Norbert Bollow)
Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 16:44:36 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Know of a good anti-virus filter?
In-Reply-To: <991404987.1379.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> (message from Arif
	Mamdani on 01 Jun 2001 10:16:25 -0400)
References: <991404987.1379.1.camel@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <200106011444.f51Eiav07693@quill>

> I'm wondering if you could reccomend a good anti-virus filter/scanner
> thing that I can use to scan the mail going through my lists, ideally
> one that would alert me and/or the list admin before sending out mail
> that was potentially infected.

Stripping all attachments is certainly a good start.  Then it
has recently been pointed out on Bugtraq that it is possible
to infect users of web-mail systems such as hotmail or yahoo
by means of malicious URLs (see below).  Because I haven't
gotten around to learning how to do it in Python, I filter in
a little Perl script on the regular expression

/https?:\S*(%3a|\:)(%2f|\/)(%2f|\/)/i

(I'd certainly appreciate a patch for Mailman that makes it hold
messages which contain such suspicious URLs).

Greetings, Norbert.

--snip------------------------------------------------------------

List-Id: <bugtraq.list-id.securityfocus.com>
List-Post: <mailto:bugtraq at securityfocus.com>
List-Help: <mailto:bugtraq-help at securityfocus.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:bugtraq-unsubscribe at securityfocus.com>
List-Subscribe: <mailto:bugtraq-subscribe at securityfocus.com>
From: mparcens at hushmail.com
Date: Wed, 30 May 2001 19:18:08 -0500 (EDT)
To: bugtraq at securityfocus.com
Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Hushpart_boundary_dAfMJfpqUApfpvnobyxrXSpSoIJaULVu"
Subject: Yahoo/Hotmail scripting vulnerability, worm propagation

--Hushpart_boundary_dAfMJfpqUApfpvnobyxrXSpSoIJaULVu
Content-type: text/plain

Title: Yahoo/Hotmail scripting vulnerability, worm propagation


Synopsis

Cross-site-scripting holes in Yahoo and Hotmail make it possible to replicate 
a Melissa-type worm through those webmail services.


Description

An email is sent to the victim, who uses Yahoo Mail or Hotmail. Inside the 
email is a link to yahoo or hotmail's own server. The link contains escaped 
javascript that is executed when the page is loaded. That javascript then 
opens a window that could nagivate through the victim's inbox, sending messages 
with the malicious link to every email address it finds in the inbox. Because 
the malicious javascript executes inside a page from the mail service's 
own server, there is no domain-bounding error when the javascript is controlling 
the window with the victim's inbox.


Who is vulnerable

Users of the Yahoo Mail and Hotmail service. Although the exploit requires 
a user to click on a link, two things work for this exploit. (1) The email 
comes from a familiar user (sent by the worm), and (2) The link is to a 
familiar, trusted server. Theoretically, more services are vulnerable, due 
to the proliferation of these holes, but the worm is limited to web mail 
services.


Proof-of-Concept

Sample links and the worm code can be found at: http://www.sidesport.com/webworm/


Solution

Escaping all query data that is echoed to the screen eliminates this problem. 
This must be done on every page on a server that can send or read mail for 
the service.


Vendor Status

Both Yahoo and Hotmail were notified on May 23 2001.


-mparcens
mparcens at hushmail.com

Free, encrypted, secure Web-based email at www.hushmail.com
--Hushpart_boundary_dAfMJfpqUApfpvnobyxrXSpSoIJaULVu--


IMPORTANT NOTICE:  If you are not using HushMail, this message could have been read easily by the many people who have access to your open personal email messages.
Get your FREE, totally secure email address at http://www.hushmail.com.






From dan at ssc.com  Fri Jun  1 17:46:39 2001
From: dan at ssc.com (Dan Wilder)
Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 08:46:39 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: A good MTA program?
In-Reply-To: <30021.991376051@kanga.nu>; from J C Lawrence on Thu, May 31, 2001 at 11:14:11PM -0700
References: <6A36A4FF313F4D459920D206EDF68BC7032273@naboo.mgdesign.net> <mike@mgdesign.net> <30021.991376051@kanga.nu>
Message-ID: <20010601084639.C2714@ssc.com>

On Thu, May 31, 2001 at 11:14:11PM -0700, J C Lawrence wrote:
> 
> ObDisclosure: I currently use Postfix on all my list servers.  I
> used to use Exim.  I still run Exim on other systems (such as the
> one I'm typing on now).  I've used both for many months (years in
> Exim's case).  I made the change for non-technical reasons.  I like
> both.

May I chime in with my agreement.

At SSC, we use Postfix exclusively.  We had used Exim, with great 
success, for a number of years, and also Sendmail, but found Postfix 
easier to configure for some of our applications, and decided 
to standardize on it (rather then running mixed Postfix/Exim/Sendmail) 
for reasons of economy.

-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------
 Dan Wilder <dan at ssc.com>   Technical Manager & Editor
 SSC, Inc. P.O. Box 55549   Phone:  206-782-8808
 Seattle, WA  98155-0549    URL http://embedded.linuxjournal.com/
-----------------------------------------------------------------



From gmourani at openna.com  Fri Jun  1 19:55:29 2001
From: gmourani at openna.com (Gerhard Mourani)
Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 13:55:29 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] UnboundLocalError: local variable 'cgidata' referenced before assignment
Message-ID: <005e01c0eac4$0c328160$1401a8c0@openna.com>

Hi,

I installed mailman on my system without problem and thanks all people that
work on this project for their great work. After installation and set-up of
required parameters, I'm able to use the majority of all options into the
program with the exception of the "Tend to pending administrative requests"
option into the administration web interface. When I click on the link (Tend
to pending administrative requests), I receive and can read the following
error message into my mailman error file:

admin(15074): [----- Traceback ------]
admin(15074): Traceback (most recent call last):
admin(15074):   File "/var/lib/mailman/scripts/driver", line 96, in run_main
admin(15074):     main()
admin(15074):   File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/admindb.py", line 108, in
main
admin(15074):     if len(cgidata.keys()):
admin(15074): UnboundLocalError: local variable 'cgidata' referenced before
assignment

Does some one have a solution to this error?

OS      = RH 7.1
Kernel  = 2.4
Python  = 2.1
Mailman = 2.0.5

--
Gerhard Mourani - gmourani at openna.com
Operation & Development Manager
OpenNA.com - http://www.openna.com/
--




From nicks at argate.net  Fri Jun  1 20:25:03 2001
From: nicks at argate.net (Nick Seidenman)
Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 14:25:03 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] posts going to <listname>-request, too
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10106011423100.1245-100000@metellus>

For the past week or so mailman seems to be sending every post sent to
<listname> to the <listname>-request address, too.  Has anyone else seen
this behaviour?  I'm open to suggestions as to what would cause it and how
to correct it.  There have been no changes to the list config that I'm
aware of or that I can see.  I'm running 2.0.3, btw.

TiA,
nick




From barry at digicool.com  Fri Jun  1 21:13:17 2001
From: barry at digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 15:13:17 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: mailman on RH7.1 still having problems
References: <6A36A4FF313F4D459920D206EDF68BC703226E@naboo.mgdesign.net>
	<mike@mgdesign.net>
	<20933.991368666@kanga.nu>
	<20010601022405.A738@babylon5.babcom.com>
Message-ID: <15127.59725.808961.758817@anthem.wooz.org>

>>>>> "PS" == Phil Stracchino <alaric at babylon5.babcom.com> writes:

    PS> On Thu, May 31, 2001 at 09:11:06PM -0700, J C Lawrence wrote:
    >> Depending on your MTA and its configuration, yes, this is true.
    >> Some MTAs, such as Exim and Postfix, can be configured to not
    >> need a list alias file at all.

    PS> Really?  Interesting.  I've just switched from sendmail to
    PS> postfix, and I haven't learned any trick yet by which this can
    PS> be accomplished.  What's the secret?

There was an old way using luser_relay, recipient_delimiter, and a
Mailman script called `auto'.  I suggest searching the archives for
this (yes, you can search the archives if you go to search.python.org,
and select "Python Mailing List Archives" and nothing else).

The new religion for MM2.1 will involve adding an alias_maps entry
pointing to $prefix/data/aliases which Mailman will manage
automatically for you.  Discussion of this is in the
mailman-developers archive.

-Barry



From eyailsys9 at yahoo.com  Fri Jun  1 21:34:28 2001
From: eyailsys9 at yahoo.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?Alonso=20T=E9llez?=)
Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 14:34:28 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How "To: user_listed@lists.myserver.com"
Message-ID: <20010601193428.46449.qmail@web10002.mail.yahoo.com>

Hi,

Mailman is a very good GPL software, better that majordomo.
Well, I have running a Mailman 2.0.5 in very good conditions, and there
are just a problem.

When a list member "member at hotmail.com" post a message to my list
"my-list at myserver.com", this message arrive to all users as:

From: member at hotmail.com
To: my-list at myserver.com
Subject: bla...bla...bla...
...

How can i tell to mailman that the field "To:" must be the mail address of
each list member, for example.

From: member at hotmail.com
To: mickey at disney.com
Subject: bla...bla...bla...

From: member at hotmail.com
To: gbush at whitehouse.gov
Subject: bla...bla...bla...

From: member at hotmail.com
To: user-a at yahoo.com
Subject: bla...bla...bla...

One more... what or where are the directory/files of a list is necesary to
backup, my email address list, the digest, etc.

Thank's, that's all!

Alonso

_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Construye tu p?gina personal en Yahoo! GeoCities. ?Es f?cil, 
r?pido y gratis! http://geocities.yahoo.com.mx



From barry at digicool.com  Fri Jun  1 21:39:19 2001
From: barry at digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 15:39:19 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: mailman on RH7.1 still having problems
References: <6A36A4FF313F4D459920D206EDF68BC703226E@naboo.mgdesign.net>
	<mike@mgdesign.net>
	<20933.991368666@kanga.nu>
	<20010601022405.A738@babylon5.babcom.com>
	<15127.59725.808961.758817@anthem.wooz.org>
	<20010601213254.B8300@orwell.bok.net>
Message-ID: <15127.61287.491943.714741@anthem.wooz.org>

>>>>> "F" == Fil  <fil at rezo.net> writes:

    F> You can also use our tricks explained in
    F> http://listes.rezo.net/comment.php (we use regular expressions
    F> in aliases)

Right, darn I don't mean to diss you on that Fil!  How about the
following text added to README.POSTFIX?

-Barry

-------------------- snip snip --------------------
AN ALTERNATIVE APPROACH

    Fil <fil at rezo.net> has an alternative approach based on the
    virtual map and regular express.  There's a description of his
    approach at:

    http://listes.rezo.net/comment.php

    It's in French, but it should be easy to grok if you're familiar
    with Postfix configuration.



From Joeymoses1 at aol.com  Fri Jun  1 17:16:02 2001
From: Joeymoses1 at aol.com (Joeymoses1 at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 11:16:02 EDT
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help!
Message-ID: <f5.ab319bb.28490bb2@aol.com>

I am having with the mailing lists is although I have 
put in several addresses that mail should not be held up for authorization 
from on a newsletter type mailing list, the messages keep being held and the
reason it is giving for not allowing the message to go through is this:
"Cause: Message has implicit destination".

Joey
Can you help?



From vwilkes at proclarity.com  Fri Jun  1 20:35:24 2001
From: vwilkes at proclarity.com (Vaughn Wilkes)
Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 12:35:24 -0600 
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Subscriber Deletions
Message-ID: <39A872BD0C81D311949200902728523CA83F35@workstation.production>

Is there an easier way of deleting large amount of subscribers at once,
rather than deleting them one at a time?  Thanks.

Vaughn Wilkes
IT Engineer
ProClarity Corporation
vwilkes at proclarity.com
 <<Vaughn Wilkes.vcf>> 
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From fil at rezo.net  Fri Jun  1 21:32:54 2001
From: fil at rezo.net (Fil)
Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 21:32:54 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: mailman on RH7.1 still having problems
In-Reply-To: <15127.59725.808961.758817@anthem.wooz.org>; from barry@digicool.com on Fri, Jun 01, 2001 at 03:13:17PM -0400
References: <6A36A4FF313F4D459920D206EDF68BC703226E@naboo.mgdesign.net> <mike@mgdesign.net> <20933.991368666@kanga.nu> <20010601022405.A738@babylon5.babcom.com> <15127.59725.808961.758817@anthem.wooz.org>
Message-ID: <20010601213254.B8300@orwell.bok.net>

>     PS> Really?  Interesting.  I've just switched from sendmail to
>     PS> postfix, and I haven't learned any trick yet by which this can
>     PS> be accomplished.  What's the secret?
> 
> There was an old way using luser_relay, recipient_delimiter, and a
> Mailman script called `auto'.  I suggest searching the archives for

You can also use our tricks explained in http://listes.rezo.net/comment.php
(we use regular expressions in aliases)

-- Fil




From chuqui at plaidworks.com  Fri Jun  1 21:48:45 2001
From: chuqui at plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach)
Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 12:48:45 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Subscriber Deletions
In-Reply-To: <39A872BD0C81D311949200902728523CA83F35@workstation.production>
Message-ID: <200106011946.f51JkpW12209@lists.apple.com>

On Friday, June 1, 2001, at 11:35 AM, Vaughn Wilkes wrote:

> Is there an easier way of deleting large amount of subscribers at once,
> rather than deleting them one at a time?  Thanks.

check out bin/remove_users

if you have a file with a list of addresses to unsubscribe, you can:

remove_users -f <file> <listname>


--
Chuq Von Rospach, Internet Gnome <http://www.chuqui.com>
[<chuqui at plaidworks.com> = <me at chuqui.com> = <chuq at apple.com>]
Yes, yes, I've finally finished my home page. Lucky you.

It's not the pace of life that concerns me, it's the sudden stop at the 
end.




From barry at digicool.com  Fri Jun  1 22:01:44 2001
From: barry at digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 16:01:44 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: mailman on RH7.1 still having problems
References: <6A36A4FF313F4D459920D206EDF68BC703226E@naboo.mgdesign.net>
	<mike@mgdesign.net>
	<20933.991368666@kanga.nu>
	<20010601022405.A738@babylon5.babcom.com>
	<15127.59725.808961.758817@anthem.wooz.org>
	<20010601213254.B8300@orwell.bok.net>
	<15127.61287.491943.714741@anthem.wooz.org>
	<20010601215920.D8300@orwell.bok.net>
Message-ID: <15127.62632.662454.472880@anthem.wooz.org>

>>>>> "F" == Fil  <fil at rezo.net> writes:

    | I've put together a quick'n'dirty translation at
    | http://listes.rezo.net/how.php

Looks good to me, I'll add both links.



From mike at mgdesign.net  Fri Jun  1 22:10:36 2001
From: mike at mgdesign.net (Mike T. Gholson)
Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 13:10:36 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Development Features?
Message-ID: <6A36A4FF313F4D459920D206EDF68BC7032284@naboo.mgdesign.net>

Barry, when do you suspect that a build will be released
with this feature?


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Barry A. Warsaw [mailto:barry at digicool.com]
>
> The new religion for MM2.1 will involve adding an alias_maps entry
> pointing to $prefix/data/aliases which Mailman will manage
> automatically for you.  Discussion of this is in the
> mailman-developers archive.



From mike at mgdesign.net  Fri Jun  1 22:12:28 2001
From: mike at mgdesign.net (Mike T. Gholson)
Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 13:12:28 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How "To: user_listed@lists.myserver.com"
Message-ID: <6A36A4FF313F4D459920D206EDF68BC7032285@naboo.mgdesign.net>

How would this be useful?


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Alonso T?llez [mailto:eyailsys9 at yahoo.com]
> 
> How can i tell to mailman that the field "To:" must be the 
> mail address of each list member?



From michael at trollope.org  Fri Jun  1 22:38:10 2001
From: michael at trollope.org (Michael Powe)
Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 13:38:10 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] configuration problems
Message-ID: <200106012038.f51KcAb05212@cecilia.trollope.org>

Hello,

I set up MailMan according to the instructions and it 'seems' to be
working.  But, it's not working correctly.  I have set it up on a
Slackware linux 7.1 machine, Apache & sendmail.  When I log into the
web interface and add some users, that seems to work.  The users that
I add all get the notification of subscription.  But, when one of the
users posts to the list, I'm the only one who gets a copy of the
mail.  

I think this may be because of the way my incoming mail is handled.  I
have a DSL connection w/domain and the mail goes to my ISP, from where
I download it via fetchmail.  Fetchmail hands it to sendmail on port
25 but it seems that the aliases are not invoked and it just goes into
my inbox instead of getting recycled.  I've set up two test lists and
the behavior is the same on both.  I did run 'newaliases' after adding
the aliases to the /etc/aliases file.  No procmail recipes are being
run on the incoming mail at this point.

I would sure appreciate any suggestions, as I need to get this setup
operational asap.

mp

-- 
  Michael Powe                                 Portland, Oregon USA
'Unless we approve your idea, it will not be permitted, it will not be
allowed.'  -- Hilary Rosen, President, Recording Industry Association
of America



From gmourani at openna.com  Fri Jun  1 22:59:23 2001
From: gmourani at openna.com (Gerhard Mourani)
Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 16:59:23 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bug under link (Tend to pending administrative requests)
Message-ID: <015e01c0eadd$bcfdde40$1401a8c0@openna.com>

Second request.

OS          = RH Linux 7.1
Python  = 2.1
mailman = 2.0.5

clicking on the link (Tend to pending administrative requests) under the
administration web interface will return the following
error message into the mailman error log file:


admin(18366): [----- Traceback ------]
admin(18366): Traceback (most recent call last):
admin(18366):   File "/var/lib/mailman/scripts/driver", line 96, in run_main
admin(18366):     main()
admin(18366):   File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/admindb.py", line 108, in
main
admin(18366):     if len(cgidata.keys()):
admin(18366): UnboundLocalError: local variable 'cgidata' referenced before
assignment
admin(18366): [----- Python Information -----]
admin(18366): sys.version    = 2.1 (#1, May 31 2001, 18:30:14)
[GCC 2.96 20000731 (Red Hat Linux 7.1 2.96-81)]
admin(18366): sys.executable = /usr/bin/python
admin(18366): sys.prefix     = /usr
admin(18366): sys.exec_prefix= /usr
admin(18366): sys.path       = /usr
admin(18366): sys.platform   = linux-i386

Any suggestion??


--
Gerhard Mourani - gmourani at openna.com
Operation & Development Manager
OpenNA.com - http://www.openna.com/
--




From fil at rezo.net  Fri Jun  1 21:59:20 2001
From: fil at rezo.net (Fil)
Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 21:59:20 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: mailman on RH7.1 still having problems
In-Reply-To: <15127.61287.491943.714741@anthem.wooz.org>; from barry@digicool.com on Fri, Jun 01, 2001 at 03:39:19PM -0400
References: <6A36A4FF313F4D459920D206EDF68BC703226E@naboo.mgdesign.net> <mike@mgdesign.net> <20933.991368666@kanga.nu> <20010601022405.A738@babylon5.babcom.com> <15127.59725.808961.758817@anthem.wooz.org> <20010601213254.B8300@orwell.bok.net> <15127.61287.491943.714741@anthem.wooz.org>
Message-ID: <20010601215920.D8300@orwell.bok.net>

Dear Barry,

I've put together a quick'n'dirty translation at
http://listes.rezo.net/how.php

If someone wants to correct my English, s/he's welcome.


> -------------------- snip snip --------------------
> AN ALTERNATIVE APPROACH
> 
>     Fil <fil at rezo.net> has an alternative approach based on the
>     virtual map and regular express.  There's a description of his
>     approach at:
> 
>     http://listes.rezo.net/comment.php
> 
>     It's in French, but it should be easy to grok if you're familiar
>     with Postfix configuration.



From fil at rezo.net  Fri Jun  1 22:54:21 2001
From: fil at rezo.net (Fil)
Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 22:54:21 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mimelib installed but not?
Message-ID: <20010601225421.D9364@orwell.bok.net>

How is it possible that mimelib seems to be installed inside python but not
mailman?  Here's what I get (from the very latest CVS, but it's been like
that for a while, I'm just tired of stumbling on this same issue each time I
try to upgrade).

Not sure where to look at. Reinstalled mimelib several times. Reinstalled
mailman from cvs several times too, to no avail.


mailman at miel:~$ /usr/bin/python
Python 2.0 (#0, Jan 11 2001, 10:52:15) 
[GCC 2.95.2 20000220 (Debian GNU/Linux)] on linux2
Type "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import mimelib
>>> mimelib.__version__
'0.2'
>>> 


mailman at miel:~$ /usr/bin/python -S /home/mailman/cron/mailpasswds
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/home/mailman/cron/mailpasswds", line 43, in ?
    from Mailman import MailList
  File "/home/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 42, in ?
    from Mailman.ListAdmin import ListAdmin
  File "/home/mailman/Mailman/ListAdmin.py", line 33, in ?
    from Mailman import Message
  File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Message.py", line 26, in ?
    from mimelib.StringableMixin import StringableMixin
ImportError: No module named StringableMixin


-- Fil





From arandall at auntminnie.com  Fri Jun  1 23:06:12 2001
From: arandall at auntminnie.com (Amanda)
Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2001 14:06:12 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] qmail and mailman?
Message-ID: <3B1803C4.505F86A7@auntminnie.com>

After a fruitless search of docs and archives, I've resorted to the
list...

Installed Mailman on a pc running Mandrake 8 and qmail. Created my
test list. It said "Hit enter to continue with notification of list
owner," and I said yes. No mail ever arrived. From looking at the
qmail log, no mail was ever sent. The best information I can get out
of the instructions is that "the url for the admin page will be
included in the email." Fat lot of help that is... So I'm wondering if
bin/newlist is using the *aliases* created to try to send out that
email, and NOT the address entered during creation of the list. If so,
I think I might not have created the aliases correctly...

As I'm running qmail and not sendmail, my translation of the alias
instructions is a little shaky. If I'm understanding this thing at
all, the .qmail-[listname] alias file should contain this text:
|home/mailman/mail/wrapper post [listname]
And ditto for the other three aliases. 'Zat right? If not, how do I
fix it?
I've read the readme.qmail about fifteen times, and it's still about
as clear as mud.

Thanks,
=)
Amanda




From claw at kanga.nu  Fri Jun  1 18:28:12 2001
From: claw at kanga.nu (J C Lawrence)
Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2001 09:28:12 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Know of a good anti-virus filter? 
In-Reply-To: Message from Arif Mamdani <arif@welfarelaw.org> 
   of "01 Jun 2001 10:37:23 EDT." <991406245.1379.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> 
References: <510EAC2065C0D311929200A0247252622F777F@NETIVITY-FS>  <991406245.1379.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> 
Message-ID: <19873.991412892@kanga.nu>

On 01 Jun 2001 10:37:23 -0400 
Arif Mamdani <arif at welfarelaw.org> wrote:

> Stripping attachments would be the ideal, but it's not realistic
> for what my lists are being used for.  

<sigh>

> So, aside from stripping attachements, what else is out there that
> will help me cut down on the number of virus being spread far and
> wide by users on my lists? 

AVScan or I think Amavis (?) is the one I normally hear about.
Easier I think it so use demime/mimefilter/mimestrip to remove
selected MIME parts, and in this case specifically everything other
than the bits you want to allow.

-- 
J C Lawrence                                       claw at kanga.nu
---------(*)                          http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/
The pressure to survive and rhetoric may make strange bedfellows



From fil at rezo.net  Fri Jun  1 23:08:22 2001
From: fil at rezo.net (Fil)
Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 23:08:22 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mimelib installed but not?
In-Reply-To: <20010601225421.D9364@orwell.bok.net>; from fil@rezo.net on Fri, Jun 01, 2001 at 10:54:21PM +0200
References: <20010601225421.D9364@orwell.bok.net>
Message-ID: <20010601230822.C9823@orwell.bok.net>

@ Fil (fil at rezo.net) :
> 
> How is it possible that mimelib seems to be installed inside python but not
> mailman?  Here's what I get (from the very latest CVS, but it's been like
> that for a while, I'm just tired of stumbling on this same issue each time I
> try to upgrade).

Sorry folks, I've just realized I needed version 0.3 of mimelib at
http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/mimelib/mimelib-0.3.tar.gz

-- Fil




From jtrigg at hoflink.com  Fri Jun  1 23:14:45 2001
From: jtrigg at hoflink.com (jtrigg at hoflink.com)
Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 17:14:45 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help!
In-Reply-To: <f5.ab319bb.28490bb2@aol.com>; from Joeymoses1@aol.com on Fri, Jun 01, 2001 at 11:16:02AM -0400
References: <f5.ab319bb.28490bb2@aol.com>
Message-ID: <20010601171445.E29113@scadian.net>

On Fri, Jun 01, 2001 at 11:16:02AM -0400, Joeymoses1 at aol.com wrote:
> I am having with the mailing lists is although I have 
> put in several addresses that mail should not be held up for authorization 
> from on a newsletter type mailing list, the messages keep being held and the
> reason it is giving for not allowing the message to go through is this:
> "Cause: Message has implicit destination".

This needs to be added to the FAQ.  Mailman apparently uses a case-
sensitive test to determine whether an email address matches the list
name.  On the Privacy Options page of the administrative web interface,
add a regular expression that matches any case combination of the list
name to the "Alias names (regexps) which qualify as explicit to or cc
destination names for this list" field.  (For example, if your list is
named example at listhost.com, the regular expression would be
[Ee][Xx][Aa][Mm][Pp][Ll][Ee])

HTH,
-- 
Jim Trigg                      /"\
SKA Blaise de Cormeilles       \ /     ASCII RIBBON CAMPAIGN
Hostmaster                      X       HELP CURE HTML MAIL
Academy of S. Gabriel          / \



From chris.nolan at pointforce.com  Fri Jun  1 23:20:24 2001
From: chris.nolan at pointforce.com (Chris Nolan)
Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 17:20:24 -0400 
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archiving another mailing list
Message-ID: <8188014AC735D111BA2B0000C0219D0B81A2AA@nt.bcsl.com>

Good day,

	First time poster so go easy on me.
	I want to archive another list that I'm a member of (not the admin
and the other list isn't mailman).  So I figured I'd setup a list on my box
and subscribe that list to the other list.  So far so good.
	My list works, I get messages from the other list sent via that
list.  Any message I send to my list myself, gets sent to me and archived.
But, any of the messages from the other list are not getting archived (but
are getting resent).

	I don't see anything in mailman to configure what messages get
archived and which ones don't.  Is there such a beast?  Why don't the
messages from the other list get archived?  I'm guessing something in the
header, but I'm not familiar enough with the mailman source code yet to go
digging deeper.  Perhaps somebody could tell me which program controls the
archiving after it's sent to the wrapper and I can dig a little deeper?

Many thanks and have a great day
Chris Nolan



From rbp at netcanvas.com  Sat Jun  2 00:45:45 2001
From: rbp at netcanvas.com (Rodrigo Borges Pereira)
Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 23:45:45 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Search capability
Message-ID: <NCEMLCJBJDBDADHPBAEPGEPNCOAA.rbp@netcanvas.com>

Hello all!

What would be the best way to add searching capabilities to the mailman list
archives?

Any opinions, thoughts, suggestions will be appreciated.

TIA

Rodrigo




From cary at dotaku.com  Sat Jun  2 01:02:21 2001
From: cary at dotaku.com (cary)
Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 16:02:21 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] catch-all aliases virtusertable problem
Message-ID: <NDBBIDAGEKNAJNEACPBECECEHLAA.cary@dotaku.com>

I updated my raq3 with the os and security patches available from cobalt (v.4.0)
and I've noticed in my virtusertable a new section has been added:

	# catch-all aliases

It appears email messages sent to non-existing users in any of the virtual hosts
on my system are sent messages back to the senders as 'user unknown' if an
errant email is sent to any of the sites on my system. Ok, that makes sense.
Problem is, Mailman doesn't require a user account in order to work. So mail
sent to my mailman lists are being returned as 'user unknown' now.

If comment out the one line catching all aliases for the virtual site mailman
resides on the list works again. Great! The problem is, every time a user is
added/deleted/updated the virtusertable is rewritten thus removing my commented
line and crippling my mailing lists.

Can anyone help me here?

thanks,

Cary.




From bob at nleaudio.com  Sat Jun  2 02:02:18 2001
From: bob at nleaudio.com (Bob Puff@NLE)
Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2001 20:02:18 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Lack of Spam
References: <E155rMc-0007K4-00@mail.python.org>
Message-ID: <3B182D0A.A62B1A1A@nleaudio.com>

I just wanted to post a note thanking the powers that be for making this list members-only posting.  The reduction in spam has been very much appreciated!

Bob



From satyap at satya.virtualave.net  Sat Jun  2 04:27:44 2001
From: satyap at satya.virtualave.net (Satya)
Date: Sat, 2 Jun 2001 07:57:44 +0530 (IST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] configuration problems
In-Reply-To: <200106012038.f51KcAb05212@cecilia.trollope.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0106020756220.4590-100000@hal9k.myip.org>

On Jun 1, 2001 at 13:38, Michael Powe wrote:

>I add all get the notification of subscription.  But, when one of the
>users posts to the list, I'm the only one who gets a copy of the
>mail.  
>
>I think this may be because of the way my incoming mail is handled.  I
>have a DSL connection w/domain and the mail goes to my ISP, from where
>I download it via fetchmail.  Fetchmail hands it to sendmail on port
>25 but it seems that the aliases are not invoked and it just goes into
>my inbox instead of getting recycled.  I've set up two test lists and

>the aliases to the /etc/aliases file.  No procmail recipes are being
>run on the incoming mail at this point.

You need procmail. fetchmail and sendmail are looking at the envelope
address, which is your mailbox.

-- 
Satya. <URL:http://satya.virtualave.net/>
US-bound grad students! For pre-apps, see <URL:http://quickapps.cjb.net/>
Damn it Jim, I'm a doctor, not a SysOp.




From michael at trollope.org  Sat Jun  2 06:28:14 2001
From: michael at trollope.org (M.A. Powe)
Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 21:28:14 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] configuration problems
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0106020756220.4590-100000@hal9k.myip.org> (message
	from Satya on Sat, 2 Jun 2001 07:57:44 +0530 (IST))
References: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0106020756220.4590-100000@hal9k.myip.org>
Message-ID: <200106020428.f524SEL05594@cecilia.trollope.org>

>>>>> "Satya" == Satya  <satyap at satya.virtualave.net> writes:

    Satya> On Jun 1, 2001 at 13:38, Michael Powe wrote:

    >> I add all get the notification of subscription.  But, when one
    >> of the users posts to the list, I'm the only one who gets a
    >> copy of the mail.

    >> I think this may be because of the way my incoming mail is
    >> handled.  I have a DSL connection w/domain and the mail goes to
    >> my ISP, from where I download it via fetchmail.  Fetchmail
    >> hands it to sendmail on port 25 but it seems that the aliases
    >> are not invoked and it just goes into my inbox instead of
    >> getting recycled.  I've set up two test lists and

    >> the aliases to the /etc/aliases file.  No procmail recipes are
    >> being run on the incoming mail at this point.

    Satya> You need procmail. fetchmail and sendmail are looking at
    Satya> the envelope address, which is your mailbox.

Thank you for the reply.  

I'm not sure I see how to work this, though.  I know how to use
ENVELOPE_TO to forward mail; should I use it to pipe mail back to
sendmail?  Hmm.

mp

-- 
  Michael Powe                                 Portland, Oregon USA
'Unless we approve your idea, it will not be permitted, it will not be
allowed.'  -- Hilary Rosen, President, Recording Industry Association
of America



From barry at digicool.com  Sat Jun  2 06:51:05 2001
From: barry at digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Sat, 2 Jun 2001 00:51:05 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: Mailman Development Features?
References: <6A36A4FF313F4D459920D206EDF68BC7032284@naboo.mgdesign.net>
Message-ID: <15128.28857.927837.741549@anthem.wooz.org>

>>>>> "MTG" == Mike T Gholson <mike at mgdesign.net> writes:

    MTG> Barry, when do you suspect that a build will be released
    MTG> with this feature?

I never make estimates, but I'm starting to feel like there's enough
new features for a new alpha pretty soon.

-Barry



From lennu at tietoverkot.net  Sat Jun  2 08:21:09 2001
From: lennu at tietoverkot.net (Len Merikanto)
Date: Sat, 2 Jun 2001 09:21:09 +0300 (EEST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Know of a good anti-virus filter?
In-Reply-To: <991406245.1379.3.camel@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.21.0106020919360.548-100000@mail.tietoverkot.net>

On 1 Jun 2001, Arif Mamdani wrote:

> Stripping attachments would be the ideal, but it's not realistic for
> what my lists are being used for.  So, aside from stripping
> attachements, what else is out there that will help me cut down on the
> number of virus being spread far and wide by users on my lists?  
> -arif
> 
> 

We use Trends Viruswall works ok scans all outgoing mail and all incoming
mail. Little problems with sum free webmail sites as they dont handle
attachments as planned in rfc.





From lennu at tietoverkot.net  Sat Jun  2 08:26:42 2001
From: lennu at tietoverkot.net (Len Merikanto)
Date: Sat, 2 Jun 2001 09:26:42 +0300 (EEST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] posts going to <listname>-request, too
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10106011423100.1245-100000@metellus>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.21.0106020925390.548-100000@mail.tietoverkot.net>

On Fri, 1 Jun 2001, Nick Seidenman wrote:

> 
> For the past week or so mailman seems to be sending every post sent to
> <listname> to the <listname>-request address, too.  Has anyone else seen
> this behaviour?  I'm open to suggestions as to what would cause it and how
> to correct it.  There have been no changes to the list config that I'm
> aware of or that I can see.  I'm running 2.0.3, btw.
> 
> TiA,
> nick
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users maillist  -  Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> 

Im having sum problems after upgrading from 1.x summit to 2.0.5 
i think alll posts are sent 3 or 4 time to subscribers.
dunno if its same thing but if anyone has idea why this happens please
drop me a line or few :)



Len Merikanto,		Phone:	+358968691950
Tietoverkot Oy		Mobile:	+358409008494
Munkkisaarenkatu 2	Fax:	+358968691935
00150 Helsinki, Finland





From satyap at satya.virtualave.net  Sat Jun  2 09:21:42 2001
From: satyap at satya.virtualave.net (Satya)
Date: Sat, 2 Jun 2001 12:51:42 +0530 (IST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] configuration problems
In-Reply-To: <200106020428.f524SEL05594@cecilia.trollope.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0106021250230.1291-100000@hal9k.myip.org>

On Jun 1, 2001 at 21:28, M.A. Powe wrote:

>>>>>> "Satya" == Satya  <satyap at satya.virtualave.net> writes:
>    Satya> You need procmail. fetchmail and sendmail are looking at
>    Satya> the envelope address, which is your mailbox.
>
>I'm not sure I see how to work this, though.  I know how to use
>ENVELOPE_TO to forward mail; should I use it to pipe mail back to
>sendmail?  Hmm.

:0
* ^TOlistname
| listaddress at as.in.aliases.file.invalid.com

:0
* ^TOlistname-request
| listaddress-request at as.in.aliases.file.invalid.com


HTH.

-- 
Satya. <URL:http://satya.virtualave.net/>
US-bound grad students! For pre-apps, see <URL:http://quickapps.cjb.net/>
Obi Wan Kenobi at the dinner table: 'Use the Forks, Luke!'




From fil at rezo.net  Sat Jun  2 15:31:34 2001
From: fil at rezo.net (Fil)
Date: Sat, 2 Jun 2001 15:31:34 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] qrunner running twice?
In-Reply-To: <986258109.3ac91abd0d53b@webmail.ucol.mx>; from raul@ucnet.com.mx on Mon, Apr 02, 2001 at 07:35:09PM -0500
References: <986258109.3ac91abd0d53b@webmail.ucol.mx>
Message-ID: <20010602153134.A17564@orwell.bok.net>

Same for me, and I'm sorry I couldn't find an answer in the archives. The
proceses pile up and after 15 minutes I had 15 python processes in the
system. What's wrong?

@ raul at ucnet.com.mx (raul at ucnet.com.mx) :
> Hello all,
> 
> I've followed the instructions in the INSTALL file to setup Mailman version 2.1a2 
> but when I tried to subscribe to the test list I don't get a reply to confirm 
> subscription. And the mailman-owner account gets the following message every 
> minute:
> 
> ...
> Subject: cron: /usr/bin/python -S /home/mailman/cron/qrunner
> Another qrunner is already running, exiting.
> 
> Anyone been through this that can give me a hand?
> 
> And this is the crontab for mailman:
> # crontab -l mailman
> 0 17 * * * /usr/bin/python -S /home/mailman/cron/checkdbs
> 0 12 * * * /usr/bin/python -S /home/mailman/cron/senddigests
> 0 5 1 * * /usr/bin/python -S /home/mailman/cron/mailpasswds
> 0,5,10,15,20,25,30,35,40,45,50,55 * * * * /usr/bin/python -S /home/mailman/cron/
> gate_news
> 27 3 * * * /usr/bin/python -S /home/mailman/cron/nightly_gzip
> #
> # Retry failed deliveries once per minute.
> * * * * * /usr/bin/python -S /home/mailman/cron/qrunner
> 
> Thanks in advance.
> 
> Raul
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users maillist  -  Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users

-- Fil




From fil at rezo.net  Sat Jun  2 15:46:54 2001
From: fil at rezo.net (Fil)
Date: Sat, 2 Jun 2001 15:46:54 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] qrunner running twice?
In-Reply-To: <20010602153134.A17564@orwell.bok.net>; from fil@rezo.net on Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 03:31:34PM +0200
References: <986258109.3ac91abd0d53b@webmail.ucol.mx> <20010602153134.A17564@orwell.bok.net>
Message-ID: <20010602154654.B17658@orwell.bok.net>

@ Fil (fil at rezo.net) :
> Same for me, and I'm sorry I couldn't find an answer in the archives. The
> proceses pile up and after 15 minutes I had 15 python processes in the
> system. What's wrong?

(Stupid habit of replying to oneself.)

Well, the crontab.in entry for qrunner should be removed (because
qrunner now maintains itself as a deamon) ; just launch it once, preferably
from an init script (like in /etc/init.d/ )

> @ raul at ucnet.com.mx (raul at ucnet.com.mx) :
> > Subject: cron: /usr/bin/python -S /home/mailman/cron/qrunner
> > Another qrunner is already running, exiting.

> > * * * * * /usr/bin/python -S /home/mailman/cron/qrunner



From fil at rezo.net  Sat Jun  2 16:37:42 2001
From: fil at rezo.net (Fil)
Date: Sat, 2 Jun 2001 16:37:42 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] ALLOW_OPEN_UNSUBSCRIBE ?
Message-ID: <20010602163742.G18124@orwell.bok.net>

Hi, two things as I'm trying to set up the current cvs version of Mailman:

1? anything that would be the equivalent for unsubscribe of
ALLOW_OPEN_SUBSCRIBE would be good. I don't think it's such a big problem
tahat people could unsubscribe you from a list w/o your consent, as you
would receive a confirm.

The fact that one must confirm her unsubscription is really pissing off
some users, maybe simply because they don't have access to that older
address they want to unsubscribe ;)

I used to hack Mailman to bypass the password checking, but I think it
should be integrated.

(One can imagine, however, that the confirmation message writes "If you
haven't requested this, please forward this message to the admin, and you
can resubscribe by clicking on such and such".)


2?  I'm getting errors in the current snapshot:

* When I set MTA="Postfix" and create a list via the web interface:
Postfix.py has trouble loading the db library.

* When I click in the admin on "edithtml"

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/home/mailman/scripts/driver", line 105, in run_main
    main()
  File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/edithtml.py", line 76, in main
    Auth.authenticate(mlist, cgidata)
AttributeError: 'Mailman.Cgi.Auth' module has no attribute 'authenticate'


* When I click in the admin on "logout"

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/home/mailman/scripts/driver", line 105, in run_main
    main()
  File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/admin.py", line 110, in main
    Auth.loginpage(mlist, 'admin', frontpage=1)
  File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/Auth.py", line 58, in loginpage
    }, mlist=mlist)
  File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Utils.py", line 516, in maketext
    raise IOError(errno.ENOENT, 'No template file found', templatefile)
IOError: [Errno 2] No template file found: 'admlogin.html'


* When I send an email to unsubscribe (same error, the template 'unsub.txt'
is missing)


Hope this helps.


-- Fil




From barry at digicool.com  Sat Jun  2 21:00:32 2001
From: barry at digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Sat, 2 Jun 2001 15:00:32 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] qrunner running twice?
References: <986258109.3ac91abd0d53b@webmail.ucol.mx>
	<20010602153134.A17564@orwell.bok.net>
	<20010602154654.B17658@orwell.bok.net>
Message-ID: <15129.14288.39989.253257@anthem.wooz.org>

>>>>> "F" == Fil  <fil at rezo.net> writes:

    F> Well, the crontab.in entry for qrunner should be removed
    F> (because qrunner now maintains itself as a deamon) ; just
    F> launch it once, preferably from an init script (like in
    F> /etc/init.d/ )

Not quite.  This will be the case for MM2.1, but it's not for MM2.0.x.

-Barry



From eyailsys9 at yahoo.com  Sat Jun  2 22:19:55 2001
From: eyailsys9 at yahoo.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?Alonso=20T=E9llez?=)
Date: Sat, 2 Jun 2001 15:19:55 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How "To: user_listed@lists.myserver.com"
In-Reply-To: <6A36A4FF313F4D459920D206EDF68BC7032285@naboo.mgdesign.net>
Message-ID: <20010602201955.30881.qmail@web10008.mail.yahoo.com>

Well, i've 50 mailing list with mailman, but there are a list where users
wouldn't know that there are a "Mail List system" called
my-list at myserver.com, they should think that me (poster at myserver.com), is
who send the mail to each user, not a mailing list system.

Thank's

Alonso.
--- "Mike T. Gholson" <mike at mgdesign.net> escribi?: > How would this be
useful?

> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Alonso T?llez [mailto:eyailsys9 at yahoo.com]
> > 
> > How can i tell to mailman that the field "To:" must be the 
> > mail address of each list member?

_________________________________________________________
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Construye tu p?gina personal en Yahoo! GeoCities. ?Es f?cil, 
r?pido y gratis! http://geocities.yahoo.com.mx



From mike at mgdesign.net  Sun Jun  3 10:48:33 2001
From: mike at mgdesign.net (Mike T. Gholson)
Date: Sun, 3 Jun 2001 01:48:33 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Almost there
Message-ID: <6A36A4FF313F4D459920D206EDF68BC70325E6@naboo.mgdesign.net>

Greetings,

On my Redhat 7.1 system, I had troubles with Mailman and Sendmail.
So, I switched my MTA.  I'm now using Exim.  Not a bad package.
Mailman seems to be working ok with it.  But, it doesn't seem to be
creating the aliases correctly when a new list is created.

I can create the list, the email is sent to the list owner, and
the web-page is created.  When I try to subscribe, it also sends
me a confirmation email.

But, when I reply to the confirmation, the message does not go
through.  It tells me that the name does not exist.

Any tricks?  I've put the necessary entries into my /usr/exim/configure
file as suggested by the instructions on the Exim site.

TIA

-- Mike

PS:  I still have my old /etc/aliases file when I was using sendmail.
It does NOT have an alias entry for the new list.  But, it does have
entries for mailman (as I followed mailman instructions).




From kenneth.tang at dalsemi.com  Sun Jun  3 18:55:57 2001
From: kenneth.tang at dalsemi.com (Kenneth Tang)
Date: Sun, 3 Jun 2001 10:55:57 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] archive and digest double-byte messages
References: <6A36A4FF313F4D459920D206EDF68BC70325E6@naboo.mgdesign.net>
Message-ID: <004f01c0ec4e$104d4ec0$7f6900b4@ktangroad>

Hi there,
I am new to this list.
We recently started a discussion group on our products for Chinese
engineers, have been experiencing the following problems:
1) messages mixed with English and Chinese replies could not be displayed in
our mail clients (MS OUTLOOK, MS OUTLOOK EXPRESS, NETSCAPE). this looks like
a conflicting multi-encoding choking the mail clients. Any suggestions?
2) mail clients could not display the digests at all, perhaps due to the
same problem as in 1)?
3) Has anyone used a search engine for the message archives that contain
double-byte characters such as Chinese, Japanese and Korean?

TIA
Kenneth Tang

------------------------------------------------------
Mailman-Users maillist  -  Mailman-Users at python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users





From ppp at vsnl.com  Sun Jun  3 17:36:05 2001
From: ppp at vsnl.com (PPPindia)
Date: Sun, 03 Jun 2001 21:06:05 +0530
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: qmail and mailman?
References: <E155w9M-00051O-00@mail.python.org>
Message-ID: <3B1A5965.9E3F8132@vsnl.com>

> As I'm running qmail and not sendmail, my translation of the alias
> instructions is a little shaky. If I'm understanding this thing at
> all, the .qmail-[listname] alias file should contain this text:
> |home/mailman/mail/wrapper post [listname]
> And ditto for the other three aliases. 'Zat right? If not, how do I
> fix it?
> I've read the readme.qmail about fifteen times, and it's still about
> as clear as mud.
> 

You should create the following aliases with |preline.

.qmail-listname 
|preline /home/mailman/mail/wrapper post listname

.qmail-listname-admin 
|preline /home/mailman/mail/wrapper mailowner listname

.qmail-listname-request
|preline /home/mailman/mail/wrapper mailcmd listname

.qmail-listname-owner
listname-admin

Hope this helps.
ks
+--------------------------------------------------------+
PPPshar- Internet Connection Sharing software
netMailshar -Virus-free Internet & Intranet mailing
MailAssistant - Speaking Email Notifier
GetAgain - resume interrupted downloads.
FREE DOWNLOAD Visit http://www.pppinfotech.com
+--------------------------------------------------------+



From victcast at prodigy.net.mx  Sat Jun  2 17:49:45 2001
From: victcast at prodigy.net.mx (=?iso-8859-1?Q?C.P._V=EDctor_M._Castillo_Vargas?=)
Date: Sat, 02 Jun 2001 10:49:45 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Request
Message-ID: <LPBBILNHLOEMFFKNKGICKENCCAAA.victcast@prodigy.net.mx>

Could you please be so kind to send messages for invitations, news,
opinions, suggestions, etc. in spanish?.

Thanks for your cooperation.

Regards





From tlance at netdoor.com  Sun Jun  3 02:42:44 2001
From: tlance at netdoor.com (Lance)
Date: Sat, 02 Jun 2001 17:42:44 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mass unsubscribe option in mailman?
Message-ID: <3B198804.87846715@netdoor.com>

I see a "mass subscribe" area to add a bunch of new addresses to my
lists but I don't see an equivalent "mass unsubscribe" option to remove
a bunch of people at once.  Am I missing it or do you not support it? 
Is there a work around if its not an option?  I have about 200 addresses
I need to unsubscribe from my list of over 2000.

Thanks!
-Lance



From chuqui at plaidworks.com  Sun Jun  3 20:00:08 2001
From: chuqui at plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach)
Date: Sun, 3 Jun 2001 11:00:08 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mass unsubscribe option in mailman?
In-Reply-To: <3B198804.87846715@netdoor.com>
Message-ID: <200106031751.f53Hprh05964@plaidworks.com>

On Saturday, June 2, 2001, at 05:42 PM, Lance wrote:

>
> I see a "mass subscribe" area to add a bunch of new addresses to my
> lists but I don't see an equivalent "mass unsubscribe" option to remove
> a bunch of people at once.  Am I missing it

bin/remove_members -f <filename> <listname>


--
Chuq Von Rospach, Internet Gnome <http://www.chuqui.com>
[<chuqui at plaidworks.com> = <me at chuqui.com> = <chuq at apple.com>]
Yes, yes, I've finally finished my home page. Lucky you.

Any connection between your reality and mine
is purely coincidental.





From mike at mgdesign.net  Sun Jun  3 20:55:32 2001
From: mike at mgdesign.net (Mike T. Gholson)
Date: Sun, 3 Jun 2001 11:55:32 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mass unsubscribe option in mailman?
Message-ID: <6A36A4FF313F4D459920D206EDF68BC70322A4@naboo.mgdesign.net>

On the same note, is there a way to 'mass subscribe' email
addresses to the DIGEST version of the list?


-----Original Message-----
From: Chuq Von Rospach [mailto:chuqui at plaidworks.com]
Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2001 11:00 AM
To: tlance at bigfoot.com
Cc: Chuq Von Rospach; mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] mass unsubscribe option in mailman?



On Saturday, June 2, 2001, at 05:42 PM, Lance wrote:

>
> I see a "mass subscribe" area to add a bunch of new addresses to my
> lists but I don't see an equivalent "mass unsubscribe" option to
remove
> a bunch of people at once.  Am I missing it

bin/remove_members -f <filename> <listname>


--
Chuq Von Rospach, Internet Gnome <http://www.chuqui.com>
[<chuqui at plaidworks.com> = <me at chuqui.com> = <chuq at apple.com>]
Yes, yes, I've finally finished my home page. Lucky you.

Any connection between your reality and mine
is purely coincidental.



------------------------------------------------------
Mailman-Users maillist  -  Mailman-Users at python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users



From chuqui at plaidworks.com  Sun Jun  3 22:11:14 2001
From: chuqui at plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach)
Date: Sun, 3 Jun 2001 13:11:14 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mass unsubscribe option in mailman?
In-Reply-To: <6A36A4FF313F4D459920D206EDF68BC70322A4@naboo.mgdesign.net>
Message-ID: <200106032003.f53K30h07970@plaidworks.com>

On Sunday, June 3, 2001, at 11:55 AM, Mike T. Gholson wrote:

> On the same note, is there a way to 'mass subscribe' email
> addresses to the DIGEST version of the list?
>

yes. add_members -d <file> <list> instead of -n <file>. It's right there 
in the documentation... (add_members --help)


--
Chuq Von Rospach, Internet Gnome <http://www.chuqui.com>
[<chuqui at plaidworks.com> = <me at chuqui.com> = <chuq at apple.com>]
Yes, yes, I've finally finished my home page. Lucky you.

I'll try being nicer if you'll try being
smarter.





From ganapathy at siptech.co.in  Mon Jun  4 10:37:40 2001
From: ganapathy at siptech.co.in (Ganapathy Subramanian Rajamani)
Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 14:07:40 +0530
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Please add my mail Id in your List
Message-ID: <3B1B48D4.9B42C32D@siptech.co.in>





From ganapathy at siptech.co.in  Mon Jun  4 10:42:59 2001
From: ganapathy at siptech.co.in (Ganapathy Subramanian Rajamani)
Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 14:12:59 +0530
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help Needed
Message-ID: <3B1B4A13.9D63BAFD@siptech.co.in>

Hi,

        I have installed Solaris 2.8 in 10.2 GB Hard Disk. & I 've
installed Win NT 4.0 in a separate 10.2 GB Hard Disk. I would like to
make them for dual Boot. How to make it as a dual boot. Please help me
in this regard.

Thanks & Regards,
Ganapathy Subramanian R








From Nigel.Metheringham at VData.co.uk  Mon Jun  4 11:10:04 2001
From: Nigel.Metheringham at VData.co.uk (Nigel Metheringham)
Date: 04 Jun 2001 10:10:04 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Almost there
In-Reply-To: <6A36A4FF313F4D459920D206EDF68BC70325E6@naboo.mgdesign.net>
References: <6A36A4FF313F4D459920D206EDF68BC70325E6@naboo.mgdesign.net>
Message-ID: <991645809.1108.0.camel@gaspode.localnet>

On 03 Jun 2001 01:48:33 -0700, Mike T. Gholson wrote:
> Greetings,
> 
> On my Redhat 7.1 system, I had troubles with Mailman and Sendmail.
> So, I switched my MTA.  I'm now using Exim. 
> ...
> I can create the list, the email is sent to the list owner, and
> the web-page is created.  When I try to subscribe, it also sends
> me a confirmation email.

So it can send mail but not receive it.

First thing to do is see if this works on the local machine using the
exim address debug facilities - ie on the exim.org box:-
  > /usr/sbin/exim -d2 -bt exim-users at exim.org
  Exim version 3.13 debug level 2 uid=501 gid=501
  Berkeley DB: Sleepycat Software: DB 2.4.14: (6/2/98)
  system_aliases director: cdb key=exim-users
    file="/var/exim/aliases.cdb"
  system_aliases director failed for exim-users: 
  list_director director called for exim-users at exim.org
  queued for list_transport transport: local_part=exim-users
domain=exim.org
  list_director director succeeded for exim-users
  exim-users at exim.org
    deliver to exim-users in domain exim.org
    director = list_director, transport = list_transport

You may possibly get permissions problems showing up there... although
thats unlikely.  Most likely problem is going to be that the domain you
have your lists in is not mentioned in local_domains.

If that works, then HUP your main daemon to make *very* sure its running
off that config file and not a previous incarnation - killall -HUP exim
will be OK.

Then make sure that mail to your list domain really does go to that MTA
- DNS mistakes are easy to make.

    Nigel
-- 
[ Nigel Metheringham           Nigel.Metheringham at InTechnology.co.uk ]
[ Phone: +44 1423 850000                         Fax +44 1423 858866 ]
[ - Comments in this message are my own and not ITO opinion/policy - ]
[ ----- Security is not an add-on -- security is a way of life ----- ]




From S.W.Lay at ucles-red.cam.ac.uk  Mon Jun  4 17:21:03 2001
From: S.W.Lay at ucles-red.cam.ac.uk (Steve Lay)
Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 16:21:03 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Admin Mail Loops
Message-ID: <a05001989b74131ebec13@[195.102.197.27]>

This question has been asked on various occasions but, other than a
historical discussion on mailman-developers I can't seem to find a
definitive reply.

I run two mailman servers and last night one of them went mad with an admin
bounce loop resulting in thousands of messages bunging up various MTAs -
filling up the quotas of other list owners, generating more bounces and so
on.  The server in question is running mailman 1.1 but my other server is
running 2.0.1.

I've read through the "NEWS" file that came with 2.0.1 and there is no
mention of the admin bounce problem or a fix for it.  I've also read
through the code to see if I can work out if a fix was inserted but I
didn't see anything obvious.

I did an experiment with my 2.0.1 system and mailman seemed to absorb a
bounce message generated by an approval request sent to a bogus list owner
and a line got reported in the bounce log so I assume that the bounce
machinery is being used for this somehow.

However, my bounce loop started with a bounce report from an Exchange
server and I have not been able to test that my newer 2.0.1 server will do
the right thing.

Can anybody reassure me?




From lists at naturallymothering.net  Mon Jun  4 18:20:50 2001
From: lists at naturallymothering.net (Becky Wilson)
Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 09:20:50 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Posts coming to me not list
Message-ID: <005b01c0ed12$88c0b9e0$9441b23f@default>

Hi,
All posts for my discussion are coming directly to me rather to the list.  This
happened suddenly late last night.  I can't seem to figure out what happened and how
to fix it.  Can anyone help?
TIA!
--
Becky




From hergrace at pmeb.org  Mon Jun  4 19:16:29 2001
From: hergrace at pmeb.org (Steph)
Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 13:16:29 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help! Digest went nuts!
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010604130925.00a011d0@pop.mindspring.com>

Hi folks,
Hope you can help us figure out what went wrong -- our webhost seems to 
have no clue about this, and doesn't seem eager to figure it out.

One day this weekend our list digest sent itself out over 200 times. Tech 
Support tried rebooting the server, but all that did was to take the lists 
down completely. When it finally came back up, the trouble started all over 
again. So the only remedy was to completely remove the list.

Here are some facts:
* The digest came out incomplete -- it broke off in the middle of one of 
the messages.
* An autoresponder could not be the problem, as no "autoresponder-type" 
messages were coming out with the digest (and we tend to catch those 
problems pretty quickly).

We think there may have been a rogue character in one of the emails, but 
have no idea if this is even a viable solution.

Any help clearing up this mystery would be *greatly* appreciated! We like 
our new webhost on the whole, and would like to stay with them -- but 
unless our lists work properly, we'll have to look for someone offering 
Majordomo... *sigh*.

Cheers,
Steph



From sbarron at cs.ohiou.edu  Mon Jun  4 19:24:58 2001
From: sbarron at cs.ohiou.edu (Scott Barron)
Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 13:24:58 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Member list in header/footer
Message-ID: <20010604132458.D11436@unixbrewers.org>

Hello all,

Those that sign my paycheck wish to see the list of member addresses in the
message header.  Can I do this with the current mailman?  I've found where to
add headers and the list of variables to insert certain things but the member
list wasn't one of them.  If this can not be done with a stock install where
might I look in the source to add such a thing?

I think this to be just an odd a request as the rest of you probably do but
you know how management gets!

Thanks,
Scott
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From arandall at auntminnie.com  Mon Jun  4 19:43:40 2001
From: arandall at auntminnie.com (Amanda)
Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 10:43:40 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: qmail and mailman?
References: <3B1803C4.505F86A7@auntminnie.com>
Message-ID: <3B1BC8CC.DC9ABD6B@auntminnie.com>

Thanks to those of you who responded with some ideas about the bizarre
behaviour I was getting while trying to send the notification to the list
owner...
Turns out that hidden deep somewhere in the machine was still one more
reference to the machine's *old* hostname, left over from someone or
something who decided that it was better to hard-code the hostname in than
let the apps pull it from the one central location... so mailman was
spouting mail out to something that didn't exist. Ergh.

Next issue! :-)
This is one of those things that might have been omitted from the
documentation in the interest of not insulting the folks who know what
they're doing, but I'm left utterly confused and hope someone can provide
some clarification for me.

Created my new list, and the URLs given are for "hostname/admin/listname"
and "hostname/listinfo/listname".  There's no dirs called "admin" or
"listinfo" in the mailman directories or the apache server root or
document root directories. There *are* some html files in the
mailmandir/lists/listname.

The net result is that going to http://hostname/ correctly gives me the
(non-mailman) documents I created in the (current) document root. However,
it is not (obviously) serving pages for the mailman list - and going to
hostname/admin/listname or hostname/listinfo/listname gives a not found.

So is there something I'm supposed to configure in mailman to make it see
the document root?
Or is there something I'm supposed to configure in apache to make it see
the mailman html docs?
Or should I set the document root in apache to something in the mailman
directories?

Thanks,
=)
Amanda





From cwieland at uci.edu  Mon Jun  4 19:47:03 2001
From: cwieland at uci.edu (Con Wieland)
Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 10:47:03 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] duplicate subscription reminders
Message-ID: <v04011706b74179983339@[128.200.132.195]>

Hello

Can anyone shed some light on why duplicate subscription reminders may have
been sent out approximately 2 minutes apart.

TIA
Con Wieland
UC Irvine



From casterln at nature.Berkeley.EDU  Mon Jun  4 19:50:34 2001
From: casterln at nature.Berkeley.EDU (Gary Casterline)
Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 10:50:34 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] email interface problem
Message-ID: <20010604105034.A8626@nature.Berkeley.EDU>

Hi,

I've gotten most things to work with mailman-2.0.5
on Solaris 2.6 using postfix MTA.  List creation,
message submission, as well as the web interface
to user additions, all seem to work fine.

But I can't get the email interface to work.
For example, if I send 'Subject: help' message to test-request,
I get back just a blank message, ~mailman/logs/error file stays empty,
and I can find no hints in /var/logs/mail.  Same thing
with 'Subject: subscribe' messages to test-request.

How do I turn up the logging verbosity?
I suppose I missed something in the INSTALL or FAQ,
but danged if I can figure out what!
Can anyone help point me in the right direction?

Thanks,

 _Gary



---- here's what I get from my 'Subject: help' message to
     test-request and the pertinent lines from the /var/mail/log.
 
 -|From test-admin at nature.Berkeley.EDU  Mon Jun  4 10:22:02 2001
 -|Return-Path: <test-admin at nature.Berkeley.EDU>
 -|Delivered-To: casterln at nature.berkeley.edu
 -|Received: from nature.Berkeley.EDU (localhost [127.0.0.1])
 -|        by nature.Berkeley.EDU (Postfix) with ESMTP id E996C8AFA
 -|        for <casterln at nature.berkeley.edu>; Mon,  4 Jun 2001 10:22:01 -0700
 -|+(PDT)
 -|Delivered-To: test-request at nature.berkeley.edu
 -|Received: by nature.Berkeley.EDU (Postfix, from userid 100)
 -|        id E08788AFA; Mon,  4 Jun 2001 10:21:41 -0700 (PDT)
 -|Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 10:21:41 -0700
 -|From: Gary Casterline <casterln at nature.Berkeley.EDU>
 -|To: test-request at nature.Berkeley.EDU
 -|Subject: help
 -|Message-ID: <20010604102141.A2227 at nature.Berkeley.EDU>
 -|Mime-Version: 1.0
 -|Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
 -|Content-Disposition: inline
 -|User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.18i
 -|Sender: test-owner at nature.Berkeley.EDU
 -|Errors-To: test-owner at nature.Berkeley.EDU
 -|X-BeenThere: test at nature.Berkeley.EDU
 -|X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.5
 -|Precedence: bulk
 -|List-Help: <mailto:test-request at nature.Berkeley.EDU?subject=help>
 -|List-Post: <mailto:test at nature.Berkeley.EDU>
 -|List-Subscribe: <http://nature.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/test>,
 -|        <mailto:test-request at nature.Berkeley.EDU?subject=subscribe>
 -|List-Id: test <test.nature.Berkeley.EDU>
 -|List-Unsubscribe: <http://nature.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/test>,
 -|        <mailto:test-request at nature.Berkeley.EDU?subject=unsubscribe>
 -|List-Archive: <http://nature.Berkeley.EDU/pipermail/test/>
 -|
 -|

% grep E996C8AFA /var/log/mail
Jun  4 10:22:01 nature.Berkeley.EDU postfix/smtpd[2136]: E996C8AFA: client=localhost[127.0.0.1]
Jun  4 10:22:02 nature.Berkeley.EDU postfix/cleanup[2252]: E996C8AFA: message-id=<20010604102141.A2227 at nature.Berkeley.EDU>
Jun  4 10:22:02 nature.Berkeley.EDU postfix/qmgr[9789]: E996C8AFA: from=<test-admin at nature.Berkeley.EDU>, size=1326, nrcpt=1 (queue active)
Jun  4 10:22:03 nature.Berkeley.EDU postfix/local[1117]: E996C8AFA: to=<casterln at nature.berkeley.edu>, relay=local, delay=2, status=sent ("|/usr/bin/procmail")



From JimS at indexstock.com  Mon Jun  4 19:55:43 2001
From: JimS at indexstock.com (Jim Saghir)
Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 13:55:43 -0400 
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Need mail merge capability
Message-ID: <F9060760545DD21189D200A0C9E922C7016FF105@exchange.indexstock.com>

Hello everyone,

I am running mailman under linux and would like to send a bulk email where
the email address of the recipient is included in the mesage body text (by
replacing a tag for example). 
Does mailman have this capability or do you know of a utility that I could
use with mailman to accomplish this?

Any help would be much appreciated.

Thanks

Jim 



From mike at mgdesign.net  Mon Jun  4 23:00:26 2001
From: mike at mgdesign.net (Mike T. Gholson)
Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 14:00:26 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Almost there
Message-ID: <6A36A4FF313F4D459920D206EDF68BC70322B0@naboo.mgdesign.net>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Nigel Metheringham [mailto:Nigel.Metheringham at VData.co.uk]
> 
> So it can send mail but not receive it.
> 
> First thing to do is see if this works on the local machine using the
> exim address debug facilities - ie on the exim.org box:-
>   > /usr/sbin/exim -d2 -bt exim-users at exim.org
>   Exim version 3.13 debug level 2 uid=501 gid=501
>   Berkeley DB: Sleepycat Software: DB 2.4.14: (6/2/98)
>   system_aliases director: cdb key=exim-users
>     file="/var/exim/aliases.cdb"
>   system_aliases director failed for exim-users: 
>   list_director director called for exim-users at exim.org
>   queued for list_transport transport: local_part=exim-users
> domain=exim.org
>   list_director director succeeded for exim-users
>   exim-users at exim.org
>     deliver to exim-users in domain exim.org
>     director = list_director, transport = list_transport
> 
> You may possibly get permissions problems showing up there... although
> thats unlikely.  Most likely problem is going to be that the 
> domain you
> have your lists in is not mentioned in local_domains.
--------------------------

Looks like I am having troubles:

[root at fairlady mailman]# /usr/exim/bin/exim -d2 -bt
test11-users at 240z.org
Exim version 3.22 debug level 2 uid=0 gid=0
Berkeley DB: Sleepycat Software: Berkeley DB 3.1.17: (July 31, 2000)
Caller is an admin user
Caller is a trusted user
system_aliases director: lsearch key=test11-users
  file="/etc/aliases"
system_aliases director declined for test11-users: 
userforward director declined for test11-users (not a user)
localuser director declined for test11-users: no such user
test11-users at 240z.org is undeliverable:
  unknown local-part "test11-users" in domain "240z.org"
[root at fairlady mailman]# 

What do you think?

-- Mike



From arandall at auntminnie.com  Tue Jun  5 02:06:12 2001
From: arandall at auntminnie.com (Amanda)
Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 17:06:12 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] set gid didn't work?
References: <3B1803C4.505F86A7@auntminnie.com> <3B1BC8CC.DC9ABD6B@auntminnie.com>
Message-ID: <3B1C2274.BEA6D8BF@auntminnie.com>

I'm trying to send messages to my test list and they're not going through. The
log is giving the following:

Jun  4 16:49:58 tux Mailman mail-wrapper: Failure to exec script. WANTED gid
12, GOT
gid 401.  (Reconfigure to take 401?)
Jun  4 16:49:58 tux qmail: 991698598.174168 delivery 5: deferral:
Failure_to_exec_script._WANTED_gid_12,_GOT_gid_401.__(Reconfigure_to_take_401?)

The kicker is, there *is* no group with gid 401. So I'm a little baffled...
What do I need to do to fix this?


Thanks,
=)
Amanda




From survey at hamil.org  Tue Jun  5 02:32:34 2001
From: survey at hamil.org (Peter Hamilton)
Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 01:32:34 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Some observations and suggestions...
Message-ID: <20010605013234.B8004@hamil.org>

Hi folks,
  At the Association of C & C++ Users, we run 25 Majordomo mailing lists,
these will be gradually moving over to Mailman.

Whilst running a couple of small lists for a local Caving club, a few
issues came to light (whilst reading this bear in mind that unlike ACCU
members, most of the Cavers are very much at the novice level with regard
to email).  Currently I'm running v2.0.3.

The confirm message:
-------------------
  I've modified verify.txt, most users found the original wording
  confusing.  It now emphasizes the simplest way to confirm - hit
  reply button (but make sure the Subject line is etc, etc..).

Listinfo:
--------
  listinfo.html was also modified, as several users complained they
  were confused about the Admin address and Password boxes for
  viewing the subscriber list ("do I have to type something in these
  boxes to subscribe?" they ask).
  This, and the question about batched mail I've removed.  People
  were checking the daily digest button, then complaining about receiving
  mail only once a day!

These are tweaks that beginners found useful, personally I found the
default templates fine (I'm NOT suggesting changes to the distribution!).

Internet Mail Service (some sort of MS mailer?):
---------------------
  This broke the Subject line into two lines like so:

  Subject: RE: Wcms-announce -- confirmation of subscription -- request 6715
          58

Outlook Express:
---------------
  The default installation of Outlook Express seems to send all text as
  a text/plain attachment, plus a text/html attachment.  If subscribers
  don't return the default Subject: line (and try to use "confirm 330970"
  in the message body instead), Mailman can't understand the attachments
  and fails to confirm.

  This problem was easy to fix by putting a mime stripper program into
  the request address alias entry (already do this to prevent viruses
  and attachments in the discussion lists).  This strips out the html and
  flattens the text attachment to non-attached, allowing confirms to work
  correctly.

Features for Mailman 3
----------------------
For me, the most useful feature on the Mailman todo list would be
user accounts with multiple email addresses.  It would be nice to have
everything accessable under a single username and password (all mailing
list subscriptions, and with a bit of custom scripting, website password
protected areas, club subscription details, etc).

All the best, Pete.
-- 
Peter Hamilton, Webmaster: www.accu.org - The Association of C & C++ Users.




From phorst at ointment.org  Tue Jun  5 03:27:01 2001
From: phorst at ointment.org (peter horst)
Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 20:27:01 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] set gid didn't work?
In-Reply-To: <3B1C2274.BEA6D8BF@auntminnie.com>; from arandall@auntminnie.com on Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 05:06:12PM -0700
References: <3B1803C4.505F86A7@auntminnie.com> <3B1BC8CC.DC9ABD6B@auntminnie.com> <3B1C2274.BEA6D8BF@auntminnie.com>
Message-ID: <20010604202701.B2484@pozzo.ointment.org>

On Jun 4, 17:06PM, Amanda wrote:
> I'm trying to send messages to my test list and they're not going through. The
> log is giving the following:
> 
> Jun  4 16:49:58 tux Mailman mail-wrapper: Failure to exec script. WANTED gid
> 12, GOT
> gid 401.  (Reconfigure to take 401?)
> Jun  4 16:49:58 tux qmail: 991698598.174168 delivery 5: deferral:
> Failure_to_exec_script._WANTED_gid_12,_GOT_gid_401.__(Reconfigure_to_take_401?)
> 
> The kicker is, there *is* no group with gid 401. So I'm a little baffled...
> What do I need to do to fix this?
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> =)
> Amanda
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users maillist  -  Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> 
*warning, i'm right there with you on the learning curve*

That happened to me, too.  I reconfigured with the setting
--with-mail-gid=nofiles (which for me was the gid the server "GOT"), and
everything worked out. (qmail on RH7.0)

Hope that leads you in the right direction,

Peter Horst



From kris at solanix.org  Tue Jun  5 04:00:04 2001
From: kris at solanix.org (Kris Sanders)
Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 02:00:04 GMT
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Publicly advertised lists
Message-ID: <20010605.2000400@redsand.solanix.org>

I am wondering why I have a list that is open to the public (set under 
the privacy options) and when you go to /mailman/listinfo.cgi  it says 
that there are no publicly advertised lists. Yet you can goto the admin 
page for the lists and it will be there. Is there something else that 
needs adjusting? For the exact results visit 
http://www.solanix.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi
Kris Sanders
Solanix.org
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From Jason.Maderios at togethersoft.com  Tue Jun  5 04:04:36 2001
From: Jason.Maderios at togethersoft.com (Jason Maderios)
Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 22:04:36 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Adjusting From: Field
Message-ID: <75B97A92FDFFEF43A2B9F2C0E5308C831E4580@ushqmailw01.togethersoft.net>

All,


Anyone know where I can adjust the From: field on a mailing list.  Right
now it says maillist at host.domain.com and I need to point it to another
mail machine outside our DMZ that will then send it where it needs to
go.


TIA,


Jason Maderios



From catnthat at rootslash.org  Tue Jun  5 05:14:44 2001
From: catnthat at rootslash.org (The Cat In The Hat)
Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 23:14:44 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Aliases configuration issue.
Message-ID: <00ba01c0ed6d$abbcf700$224b9ecd@cncx.com>

Hey all,

    I am having a problem getting mailman to work with sendmail in regards
to the aliases.

Debian 2.2
Sendmail 8.9.3-23
Mailman 2.0.5

    I have compiled mailman using the correct mail-gid and cgi-gid for my
system.  I have setup the following aliases in the /etc/aliases file:

mbslug: "|/home/mailman/mail/wrapper post mbslug"
mbslug-admin: "|/home/mailman/mail/wrapper mailowner mbslug"
mbslug-request: "|/home/mailman/mail/wrapper mailcmd mbslug"
mbslug-owner: mbslug-admin

    And I have run newaliases, however I am still receiving the following
when trying to confirm subscriptions. (I'm using OE because I'm currently at
work so please don't flame me.)  Any assitance would be appreciated.

The original message was received at Mon, 4 Jun 2001 23:10:19 -0400 (EDT)
from [205.158.75.34]

   ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----
<mbslug-request at mbslug.org>

   ----- Transcript of session follows -----
... while talking to mailhost.cnchost.com.:
>>> RCPT To:<mbslug-request at mbslug.org>
<<< 550 <mbslug-request at mbslug.org>... User unknown
550 <mbslug-request at mbslug.org>... User unknown

   ----- Original message follows -----

Return-Path: <catnthat at rootslash.org>
Received: from mbs3151 ([205.158.75.34])
by ajax.cnchost.com
id XAA14835; Mon, 4 Jun 2001 23:10:19 -0400 (EDT)
[ConcentricHost SMTP Relay 1.13]
Errors-To: <catnthat at rootslash.org>
Message-ID: <00b301c0ed6d$0b229d90$224b9ecd at cncx.com>
From: "The Cat In The Hat" <catnthat at rootslash.org>
To: <mbslug-request at mbslug.org>
References: <200106042336.TAA32279 at george.mbslug.org>
Subject: Re: Mbslug -- confirmation of subscription -- request 644818
Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 23:10:15 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200

----- Original Message -----
From: <mbslug-request at mbslug.org>
To: <catnthat at rootslash.org>
Sent: Monday, June 04, 2001 7:36 PM
Subject: Mbslug -- confirmation of subscription -- request 644818

> Mbslug -- confirmation of subscription -- request 644818
>
> We have received a request from 205.158.75.34 for subscription of your
> email address, <catnthat at rootslash.org>, to the mbslug at mbslug.org
> mailing list.  To confirm the request, please send a message to
> mbslug-request at mbslug.org, and either:
>
> - maintain the subject line as is (the reply's additional "Re:" is
> ok),
>
> - or include the following line - and only the following line - in the
> message body:
>
> confirm 644818
>
> (Simply sending a 'reply' to this message should work from most email
> interfaces, since that usually leaves the subject line in the right
> form.)
>
> If you do not wish to subscribe to this list, please simply disregard
> this message.  Send questions to mbslug-admin at mbslug.org.





From chuqui at plaidworks.com  Tue Jun  5 05:24:18 2001
From: chuqui at plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach)
Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 20:24:18 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Adjusting From: Field
In-Reply-To: <75B97A92FDFFEF43A2B9F2C0E5308C831E4580@ushqmailw01.togethersoft.net>
Message-ID: <200106050316.f553GLh07392@plaidworks.com>

On Monday, June 4, 2001, at 07:04 PM, Jason Maderios wrote:

> Anyone know where I can adjust the From: field on a mailing list.  Right
> now it says maillist at host.domain.com and I need to point it to another
> mail machine outside our DMZ that will then send it where it needs to
> go.
>

Why do it that way? Instead, use an MX record to send it ot that 
machine, and have that machine forward it in.

if the list server is inside the firewall, how is the web interface 
getting out? another proxy?



--
Chuq Von Rospach, Internet Gnome <http://www.chuqui.com>
[<chuqui at plaidworks.com> = <me at chuqui.com> = <chuq at apple.com>]
Yes, yes, I've finally finished my home page. Lucky you.

You know, I Remember When I Used To Speak In Capitals, Too. It's 
addictive.
It also encourages people to poke sticks at you. Justifiably. (chuq, 
1992)



From barry at digicool.com  Tue Jun  5 07:16:00 2001
From: barry at digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 01:16:00 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] make install error
References: <20010524150903.25111.qmail@web5302.mail.yahoo.com>
	<15117.39404.603946.703916@anthem.wooz.org>
	<005201c0e4f1$32d05820$e20110ac@venkatesh>
	<15117.54792.317853.142401@anthem.wooz.org>
	<00e501c0e796$39bb22d0$e20110ac@venkatesh>
Message-ID: <15132.27408.943320.171541@anthem.wooz.org>

>>>>> "v" == venkateswaran  <gv_indian at yahoo.com> writes:

    v> Still I am in trouble. I have not commented out the line shared
    v> in Setup. It compiled as a static and could see shamodule.o in
    v> Modules directory. I did not get any errors while
    v> installing. run make test, lists the modules with "test_sha"
    v> without any comments. Still I am getting the same error sha
    v> module import error. I too tried to install python2.1 also and
    v> failed to figure it out.

    v> I do not know what should be the next step.

When you built the Python that passes test_sha, did you do a "make
install"? 

The only other thing I can think is that you've got a different (and
broken) python executable on your path earlier than the one you think
you're getting (i.e. the one that has a working sha module).  Try
using --with-python option to configure to point it exactly at the
python executable that seems to work for you.

-Barry



From barry at digicool.com  Tue Jun  5 07:21:05 2001
From: barry at digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 01:21:05 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help! Digest went nuts!
References: <5.0.2.1.0.20010604130925.00a011d0@pop.mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <15132.27713.618282.647156@anthem.wooz.org>

>>>>> "S" == Steph  <hergrace at pmeb.org> writes:

    S> Here are some facts: * The digest came out incomplete -- it
    S> broke off in the middle of one of the messages.

Take a look at Mailman's error log file, $prefix/logs/error to see if
you're getting any Python tracebacks.  Could be as you suspect, a
rogue character or some other bogosity is crashing the digesting code,
but for some reason still getting sent out with the partial digest.  A
traceback would help track this down.

Also, you don't say what version of Mailman you're running.  When
encountering problems, please always say what OS you're using, the
version of Python and the version of Mailman (at a minimum)!

-Barry



From barry at digicool.com  Tue Jun  5 07:24:19 2001
From: barry at digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 01:24:19 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Member list in header/footer
References: <20010604132458.D11436@unixbrewers.org>
Message-ID: <15132.27907.435151.789177@anthem.wooz.org>

>>>>> "SB" == Scott Barron <sbarron at cs.ohiou.edu> writes:

    SB> Those that sign my paycheck wish to see the list of member
    SB> addresses in the message header.  Can I do this with the
    SB> current mailman?  I've found where to add headers and the list
    SB> of variables to insert certain things but the member list
    SB> wasn't one of them.  If this can not be done with a stock
    SB> install where might I look in the source to add such a thing?

    SB> I think this to be just an odd a request as the rest of you
    SB> probably do but you know how management gets!

Indeed, it sounds like an odd request.  Ask them what they'd like to
see for a list with 1000, or <gasp> 10k members. :)

No, stock Mailman doesn't support this, but it could be hacked in
(though I really can't understand why they'd want this).  You'll need
to write some Python.  An approach to take is to write a handler
module for the Handlers subdir that takes the message metadata's
`recips' key, and string join's those together, splatting them into
your header of choice.

If that doesn't make sense, you'll need to spend some time studying
the code first. :)

-Barry



From barry at digicool.com  Tue Jun  5 07:29:23 2001
From: barry at digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 01:29:23 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] email interface problem
References: <20010604105034.A8626@nature.Berkeley.EDU>
Message-ID: <15132.28211.91588.479313@anthem.wooz.org>

>>>>> "GC" == Gary Casterline <casterln at nature.Berkeley.EDU> writes:

    GC> How do I turn up the logging verbosity?
    GC> I suppose I missed something in the INSTALL or FAQ,
    GC> but danged if I can figure out what!
    GC> Can anyone help point me in the right direction?

You can't easily (this is something that's been long desired, but
tends to get pushed down too far), but if you aren't scared off by
hacking Python, I'll tell you how I tend to debug things.

Essentially, you're going to do "printf" debugging.  I.e. stick in
some "printf"'s and figure out where things are going wrong.

The way to spell "printf" for Mailman is

# at the top of the file, if it's not already there
from Mailman.Logging.Syslog import syslog

# where you want to stick the "printf"
syslog('debug', 'we got to here')

You'll probably want to start with MailCommandHandler.py.

In a separate window, run "tail -f $prefix/log/debug" and then send
your email command.

-Barry



From chuqui at plaidworks.com  Tue Jun  5 07:35:47 2001
From: chuqui at plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach)
Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 22:35:47 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help! Digest went nuts!
In-Reply-To: <15132.27713.618282.647156@anthem.wooz.org>
Message-ID: <200106050527.f555Roh09467@plaidworks.com>

On Monday, June 4, 2001, at 10:21 PM, Barry A. Warsaw wrote:

>
>>>>>> "S" == Steph  <hergrace at pmeb.org> writes:
>
>     S> Here are some facts: * The digest came out incomplete -- it
>     S> broke off in the middle of one of the messages.
>
> Take a look at Mailman's error log file, $prefix/logs/error to see if
> you're getting any Python tracebacks.

if the log shows nothing, I've seen this before. turns out a user had an 
embedded NUL character (ascii 0), and it caused the file I/O routines to 
see a premature EOF. Mailman needs to protect itself from this by 
stripping weird ascii characters as the messages enter the system...


--
Chuq Von Rospach, Internet Gnome <http://www.chuqui.com>
[<chuqui at plaidworks.com> = <me at chuqui.com> = <chuq at apple.com>]
Yes, yes, I've finally finished my home page. Lucky you.

   To the optimist, the glass is half full.
   To the pessimist, the glass is half empty.
   To the engineer, the glass is twice as big as it needs to be.





From barry at digicool.com  Tue Jun  5 07:37:40 2001
From: barry at digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 01:37:40 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Some observations and suggestions...
References: <20010605013234.B8004@hamil.org>
Message-ID: <15132.28708.304810.263410@anthem.wooz.org>

>>>>> "PH" == Peter Hamilton <survey at hamil.org> writes:

    PH> Hi folks, At the Association of C & C++ Users, we run 25
    PH> Majordomo mailing lists, these will be gradually moving over
    PH> to Mailman.

Cool!  Be sure to let me know if you want to be listed under

    http://www.list.org/inthenews.html

:)

    PH> Whilst running a couple of small lists for a local Caving
    PH> club, a few issues came to light (whilst reading this bear in
    PH> mind that unlike ACCU members, most of the Cavers are very
    PH> much at the novice level with regard to email).  Currently I'm
    PH> running v2.0.3.

    | The confirm message:
    | -------------------
    PH>   I've modified verify.txt, most users found the original
    PH> wording confusing.  It now emphasizes the simplest way to
    PH> confirm - hit reply button (but make sure the Subject line is
    PH> etc, etc..).

This has been rewritten for MM2.1, and hopefully clarified.

    | Listinfo:
    | --------
    PH>   listinfo.html was also modified, as several users complained
    PH> they were confused about the Admin address and Password boxes
    PH> for viewing the subscriber list ("do I have to type something
    PH> in these boxes to subscribe?" they ask).  This, and the
    PH> question about batched mail I've removed.  People were
    PH> checking the daily digest button, then complaining about
    PH> receiving mail only once a day!

Do you mean the address/password boxes for private rosters?

    PH> These are tweaks that beginners found useful, personally I
    PH> found the default templates fine (I'm NOT suggesting changes
    PH> to the distribution!).

Okay, but if you have suggestions, I'm happy to look at them!

    | Internet Mail Service (some sort of MS mailer?):
    | ---------------------
    |   This broke the Subject line into two lines like so:

    PH>   Subject: RE: Wcms-announce -- confirmation of subscription
    PH> -- request 6715 58

I've seen reports of this before, and it could get worse in MM2.1
since the cookie is longer now.  I should probably just shorten it to
"confirm <cookie>".

    | Outlook Express:
    | ---------------
    PH>   The default installation of Outlook Express seems to send
    PH> all text as a text/plain attachment, plus a text/html
    PH> attachment.  If subscribers don't return the default Subject:
    PH> line (and try to use "confirm 330970" in the message body
    PH> instead), Mailman can't understand the attachments and fails
    PH> to confirm.

Yeah, I really want to get some sort of demimeing support into MM2.1.
We'll see...

    PH>   This problem was easy to fix by putting a mime stripper
    PH> program into the request address alias entry (already do this
    PH> to prevent viruses and attachments in the discussion lists).
    PH> This strips out the html and flattens the text attachment to
    PH> non-attached, allowing confirms to work correctly.

    PH> Features for Mailman 3 For me, the most useful feature on the
    PH> Mailman todo list would be user accounts with multiple email
    PH> addresses.  It would be nice to have everything accessable
    PH> under a single username and password (all mailing list
    PH> subscriptions, and with a bit of custom scripting, website
    PH> password protected areas, club subscription details, etc).

Yep, no question, that'll be the biggest feature of 3.0.

-Barry




From barry at digicool.com  Tue Jun  5 07:43:46 2001
From: barry at digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 01:43:46 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help! Digest went nuts!
References: <15132.27713.618282.647156@anthem.wooz.org>
	<200106050527.f555Roh09467@plaidworks.com>
Message-ID: <15132.29074.59000.789712@anthem.wooz.org>

>>>>> "CVR" == Chuq Von Rospach <chuqui at plaidworks.com> writes:

    CVR> if the log shows nothing, I've seen this before. turns out a
    CVR> user had an embedded NUL character (ascii 0), and it caused
    CVR> the file I/O routines to see a premature EOF. Mailman needs
    CVR> to protect itself from this by stripping weird ascii
    CVR> characters as the messages enter the system...

Who's file I/O routines?  Is the MTA mistaking the NUL for an EOF?  If
so, what MTA are you using Steph?  It should be easy to strip out the
NUL's by adding one line to SMTPDirect.py.  At the top of the function
deliver(), add something like the following (untested!):

    msgtext = string.replace(msgtext, '\0', '')

or, if you're using Python 2.x

    msgtext = msgtext.replace('\0', '')

-Barry



From hergrace at pmeb.org  Tue Jun  5 07:53:54 2001
From: hergrace at pmeb.org (Steph)
Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 01:53:54 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help! Digest went nuts!
In-Reply-To: <15132.29074.59000.789712@anthem.wooz.org>
References: <15132.27713.618282.647156@anthem.wooz.org>
 <200106050527.f555Roh09467@plaidworks.com>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010605015224.01b12d90@mail.pmeb.org>

thanks again for the suggestions! I'll have to forward them on to the folks 
who are allowed to get at the Python code. Unfortunately, I don't know 
which version of Python they're using -- but this sounds like it *might* be 
the key we need!

Cheers,
Steph

At 01:43 AM 6/5/01 -0400, Barry wrote:

> >>>>> "CVR" == Chuq Von Rospach <chuqui at plaidworks.com> writes:
>
>     CVR> if the log shows nothing, I've seen this before. turns out a
>     CVR> user had an embedded NUL character (ascii 0), and it caused
>     CVR> the file I/O routines to see a premature EOF. Mailman needs
>     CVR> to protect itself from this by stripping weird ascii
>     CVR> characters as the messages enter the system...
>
>Who's file I/O routines?  Is the MTA mistaking the NUL for an EOF?  If
>so, what MTA are you using Steph?  It should be easy to strip out the
>NUL's by adding one line to SMTPDirect.py.  At the top of the function
>deliver(), add something like the following (untested!):
>
>     msgtext = string.replace(msgtext, '\0', '')
>
>or, if you're using Python 2.x
>
>     msgtext = msgtext.replace('\0', '')
>
>-Barry




From chuqui at plaidworks.com  Tue Jun  5 07:53:49 2001
From: chuqui at plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach)
Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 22:53:49 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help! Digest went nuts!
In-Reply-To: <15132.29074.59000.789712@anthem.wooz.org>
Message-ID: <200106050545.f555jph09755@plaidworks.com>

On Monday, June 4, 2001, at 10:43 PM, Barry A. Warsaw wrote:

> Who's file I/O routines?  Is the MTA mistaking the NUL for an EOF?

AFAIKT, it's Python's, and mailman. my archives of the raw input shows 
that sendmail was passing it along to mailman, and mailman was doing the 
truncation.


--
Chuq Von Rospach, Internet Gnome <http://www.chuqui.com>
[<chuqui at plaidworks.com> = <me at chuqui.com> = <chuq at apple.com>]
Yes, yes, I've finally finished my home page. Lucky you.

Stress is when you wake up screaming and you realize you haven't fallen 
asleep yet.






From fil at rezo.net  Tue Jun  5 09:38:46 2001
From: fil at rezo.net (Fil)
Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 09:38:46 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Some observations and suggestions...
In-Reply-To: <15132.28708.304810.263410@anthem.wooz.org>; from barry@digicool.com on Tue, Jun 05, 2001 at 01:37:40AM -0400
References: <20010605013234.B8004@hamil.org> <15132.28708.304810.263410@anthem.wooz.org>
Message-ID: <20010605093846.B27178@orwell.bok.net>

@ Barry A. Warsaw (barry at digicool.com) :
>     PH>   Subject: RE: Wcms-announce -- confirmation of subscription
>     PH> -- request 6715 58
> 
> I've seen reports of this before, and it could get worse in MM2.1
> since the cookie is longer now.  I should probably just shorten it to
> "confirm <cookie>".


Don't forget that, in mailman-i18n, you'll have to deal with multiple
languages in this subbject too. Making it "machine like" will permit us not
to translate it ;)  So "confirm xxxxxxx" will be better in that sense.






From Nigel.Metheringham at VData.co.uk  Tue Jun  5 10:34:16 2001
From: Nigel.Metheringham at VData.co.uk (Nigel Metheringham)
Date: 05 Jun 2001 09:34:16 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Almost there
In-Reply-To: <6A36A4FF313F4D459920D206EDF68BC70322B0@naboo.mgdesign.net>
References: <6A36A4FF313F4D459920D206EDF68BC70322B0@naboo.mgdesign.net>
Message-ID: <991730061.5888.0.camel@gaspode.localnet>

On 04 Jun 2001 14:00:26 -0700, Mike T. Gholson wrote:
> [root at fairlady mailman]# /usr/exim/bin/exim -d2 -bt
...

> What do you think?

The config file you are working from is not referencing the list
handling stuff at all - not even to decline the addresses.

Go back to your exim config, make sure the file you are editing is the
one exim is using (I've made that mistake before), and edit in the
additions described in the README.exim or
http://www.exim.org/howto/mailman.html

If you increase the number after the -d on the exim invocation you will
get more and more verbose debugging - up to -d99 - that will tell you
every last detail about what exim is doing including which config file
it is reading etc.

    Nigel.
-- 
[ Nigel Metheringham           Nigel.Metheringham at InTechnology.co.uk ]
[ Phone: +44 1423 850000                         Fax +44 1423 858866 ]
[ - Comments in this message are my own and not ITO opinion/policy - ]
[ ----- Security is not an add-on -- security is a way of life ----- ]




From Nigel.Metheringham at InTechnology.co.uk  Tue Jun  5 10:43:27 2001
From: Nigel.Metheringham at InTechnology.co.uk (Nigel Metheringham)
Date: 05 Jun 2001 09:43:27 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Member list in header/footer
In-Reply-To: <20010604132458.D11436@unixbrewers.org>
References: <20010604132458.D11436@unixbrewers.org>
Message-ID: <991730612.5888.1.camel@gaspode.localnet>

On 04 Jun 2001 13:24:58 -0400, Scott Barron wrote:
> Those that sign my paycheck wish to see the list of member addresses in the
> message header.  Can I do this with the current mailman?  I've found where to
> add headers and the list of variables to insert certain things but the member
> list wasn't one of them.  If this can not be done with a stock install where
> might I look in the source to add such a thing?

Technically this is possible to do, as outlined by Barry.
However it is a very silly thing to do - do you want *every* member of
the list in the headers, or just the ones handled by this delivery
(Mailman tends to batch deliveries into chunks of recipients)?  A
thousand recipients, at (say) 50 bytes per recipient will add 50K of
headers.  At this point you will find some MTAs will explode when they
get a header or a multiple header set of this length.

When someone gets a message like this and replies to it you can just bet
they use "reply to all" - so a copy goes to the list (is that still in
the headers) and another copy goes to each list member.  Then people
complain about double receiving messages, of course sending the
complaints to everyone and before you know it you have a mail loop of
sorts and a lot of unhappy people.

Autoreply functions, which are in general terminally stupid, now have
more addresses to autospam...

Everyone's email addresses are out there and available for spam address
harvesters.

If you have dealings with EU people you have probably just broken EU
data protection legislation by broadcasting personal data (email
addresses) without adequate permissions and safeguards.

You *really* need to push back on this... mailing lists work the way
they do for a reason, and breaking them without good technical reason
will give you pain.

    Nigel.
-- 
[ Nigel Metheringham           Nigel.Metheringham at InTechnology.co.uk ]
[ Phone: +44 1423 850000                         Fax +44 1423 858866 ]
[ - Comments in this message are my own and not ITO opinion/policy - ]
[ ----- Security is not an add-on -- security is a way of life ----- ]




From Nigel.Metheringham at InTechnology.co.uk  Tue Jun  5 10:47:09 2001
From: Nigel.Metheringham at InTechnology.co.uk (Nigel Metheringham)
Date: 05 Jun 2001 09:47:09 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Need mail merge capability
In-Reply-To: 
	<F9060760545DD21189D200A0C9E922C7016FF105@exchange.indexstock.com>
References: 
	<F9060760545DD21189D200A0C9E922C7016FF105@exchange.indexstock.com>
Message-ID: <991730834.5891.2.camel@gaspode.localnet>

On 04 Jun 2001 13:55:43 -0400, Jim Saghir wrote:
> I am running mailman under linux and would like to send a bulk email where
> the email address of the recipient is included in the mesage body text (by
> replacing a tag for example). 
> Does mailman have this capability or do you know of a utility that I could
> use with mailman to accomplish this?

No - this would require Mailman to do deliveries one address at a time
rather than batched, and so would cost much more in terms of delivery.
You might be able hack mailman, but it is an MLM and not a mail merge
tool.

    Nigel.
-- 
[ Nigel Metheringham           Nigel.Metheringham at InTechnology.co.uk ]
[ Phone: +44 1423 850000                         Fax +44 1423 858866 ]
[ - Comments in this message are my own and not ITO opinion/policy - ]
[ ----- Security is not an add-on -- security is a way of life ----- ]




From barry at digicool.com  Tue Jun  5 14:46:12 2001
From: barry at digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 08:46:12 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help! Digest went nuts!
References: <15132.29074.59000.789712@anthem.wooz.org>
	<200106050545.f555jph09755@plaidworks.com>
Message-ID: <15132.54420.449373.343903@anthem.wooz.org>

>>>>> "CVR" == Chuq Von Rospach <chuqui at plaidworks.com> writes:

    >> Who's file I/O routines?  Is the MTA mistaking the NUL for an
    >> EOF?

    CVR> AFAIKT, it's Python's, and mailman. my archives of the raw
    CVR> input shows that sendmail was passing it along to mailman,
    CVR> and mailman was doing the truncation.

This does ring a bell.  I thought we had dealt with some NUL problems
a while ago.  I guess I'll have to troll through the log messages and
archives to see if I can recall the details.

-Barry




From Jason.Maderios at togethersoft.com  Tue Jun  5 15:15:59 2001
From: Jason.Maderios at togethersoft.com (Jason Maderios)
Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 09:15:59 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Adjusting From: Field
Message-ID: <75B97A92FDFFEF43A2B9F2C0E5308C831E4581@ushqmailw01.togethersoft.net>

Again--

Anyone know how to adjust the from field for the mailing list.  I need
to change it from saying maillist at host.domain.com. To
whatever at domain.com 


TIA,

Jason Maderios



On Monday, June 4, 2001, at 07:04 PM, Jason Maderios wrote:

> Anyone know where I can adjust the From: field on a mailing list.
Right
> now it says maillist at host.domain.com and I need to point it to another
> mail machine outside our DMZ that will then send it where it needs to
> go.
>

Why do it that way? Instead, use an MX record to send it ot that 
machine, and have that machine forward it in.

Normally this would work.  But for buisness practaces I want/need to
change that field to anything I wan't it to be.

if the list server is inside the firewall, how is the web interface 
getting out? another proxy?

Web interface can only be accessed by VPN and LAN.





--
Chuq Von Rospach, Internet Gnome <http://www.chuqui.com>
[<chuqui at plaidworks.com> = <me at chuqui.com> = <chuq at apple.com>]
Yes, yes, I've finally finished my home page. Lucky you.

You know, I Remember When I Used To Speak In Capitals, Too. It's 
addictive.
It also encourages people to poke sticks at you. Justifiably. (chuq, 
1992)




From joho at webbplatsen.se  Tue Jun  5 15:52:21 2001
From: joho at webbplatsen.se (Joaquim Homrighausen)
Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 15:52:21 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] MIME messages
Message-ID: <E157HFv-0006qw-00@mail.python.org>

While setting up a test list with the current release version
of Mailman, I got a complaint from a user saying that he could
not subscribe to the list.

The transcript follows:

This is an automated response.


There were problems with the email commands you sent to Mailman via
the administrative address <foodoo-request at list.mydomain.net>.

To obtain instructions on valid Mailman email commands, send email to
<foodoo-request at list.mydomain.net> with the word "help" in the
subject line or in the body of the message.

If you want to reach the human being that manages this mailing list,
please send your message to <foodoo-admin at list.mydomain.net>.

The following is a detailed description of the problems.

  Command? This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader doe...
  Command? this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.
  Command? ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0ED84.5415E180
  Command? Content-Type: text/plain;
  Command? charset="iso-8859-1"
  >>>>> 
  >>>>> Too many errors encountered; the rest of the message is ignored:
  > 
  > subscribe
  > 
  > ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0ED84.5415E180
  > Content-Type: text/html;
  > 	charset="iso-8859-1"
  > 
  > 
  > > > > > > > class=669465605-05062001>subscribe

  > 
  > ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0ED84.5415E180--

Regards,
Joaquim



:: Who dares wins ::





From Bill.Jones at atl.sita.int  Tue Jun  5 17:20:35 2001
From: Bill.Jones at atl.sita.int (Bill Jones)
Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 11:20:35 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Using Mailman Lists
Message-ID: <3B1CF8C3.19105009@atl.sita.int>

How do you send a message to a list? I think I have everything
configured properly but when I send a message to <listname>@<mailman
domain> I get "User Unknown" back from sendmail on the mailman server. I
cannot find a user's guide or any documentation. 

TIA,
Bill J.



From enriko.groen at netivity.nl  Tue Jun  5 17:25:39 2001
From: enriko.groen at netivity.nl (Enriko Groen)
Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 17:25:39 +0200 
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Using Mailman Lists
Message-ID: <510EAC2065C0D311929200A0247252622F778E@NETIVITY-FS>


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bill Jones [mailto:Bill.Jones at atl.sita.int]
> Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2001 17:21
> To: mailman-users at python.org
> Subject: [Mailman-Users] Using Mailman Lists
> 
> 
> How do you send a message to a list? I think I have everything
> configured properly but when I send a message to <listname>@<mailman
> domain> I get "User Unknown" back from sendmail on the 
> mailman server. I
> cannot find a user's guide or any documentation. 

Have you added the aliases generated by the newlist command to your local
aliases file/database? Also be sure to run newaliases if required.

Documentation is available from the Mailman (list.org) site.

--
Enriko Groen, Hosting manager
--------------------------------------------------------
netivity bv   www.netivity.nl   enriko.groen at netivity.nl
038 - 850 1000   van nagellstraat 4      8011 eb  zwolle
--------------------------------------------------------
 



From enriko.groen at netivity.nl  Tue Jun  5 17:28:29 2001
From: enriko.groen at netivity.nl (Enriko Groen)
Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 17:28:29 +0200 
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Unsubscribe password less
Message-ID: <510EAC2065C0D311929200A0247252622F778F@NETIVITY-FS>

Hi,

I'm still trying to find a way to unsubscribe though email without the use
of a user specific password and without a confirm requirement. Is there a
way to do it?

I have tried using the listmoderator command, but the unsubscriber still
needs to confirm the request.


--
Enriko Groen, Hosting manager
--------------------------------------------------------
netivity bv   www.netivity.nl   enriko.groen at netivity.nl
038 - 850 1000   van nagellstraat 4      8011 eb  zwolle
--------------------------------------------------------
 



From sbarron at cs.ohiou.edu  Tue Jun  5 17:21:51 2001
From: sbarron at cs.ohiou.edu (Scott Barron)
Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 11:21:51 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Member list in header/footer
In-Reply-To: <991730612.5888.1.camel@gaspode.localnet>; from Nigel.Metheringham@InTechnology.co.uk on Tue, Jun 05, 2001 at 09:43:27AM +0100
References: <20010604132458.D11436@unixbrewers.org> <991730612.5888.1.camel@gaspode.localnet>
Message-ID: <20010605112151.A25205@unixbrewers.org>

Well, I managed to add a List-Members: header (along with the other List-*
headers in Cookheader.py).  Believe me, I think this is just as stupid an idea
as you do and will try one more time to explain the purpose of mailing list
software.  You raise some good points that I will bring up to my boss.  The
problem is he is used to maintaining his "list" as a list of addresses in
Eudora or something like that (not familiar with that software).

Thanks for the tips,
Scott

On Tue, Jun 05, 2001 at 09:43:27AM +0100, Nigel Metheringham wrote:
> 
> Technically this is possible to do, as outlined by Barry.
> However it is a very silly thing to do - do you want *every* member of
> the list in the headers, or just the ones handled by this delivery
> (Mailman tends to batch deliveries into chunks of recipients)?  A
> thousand recipients, at (say) 50 bytes per recipient will add 50K of
> headers.  At this point you will find some MTAs will explode when they
> get a header or a multiple header set of this length.
> 
> When someone gets a message like this and replies to it you can just bet
> they use "reply to all" - so a copy goes to the list (is that still in
> the headers) and another copy goes to each list member.  Then people
> complain about double receiving messages, of course sending the
> complaints to everyone and before you know it you have a mail loop of
> sorts and a lot of unhappy people.
> 
> Autoreply functions, which are in general terminally stupid, now have
> more addresses to autospam...
> 
> Everyone's email addresses are out there and available for spam address
> harvesters.
> 
> If you have dealings with EU people you have probably just broken EU
> data protection legislation by broadcasting personal data (email
> addresses) without adequate permissions and safeguards.
> 
> You *really* need to push back on this... mailing lists work the way
> they do for a reason, and breaking them without good technical reason
> will give you pain.
> 
>     Nigel.
> -- 
> [ Nigel Metheringham           Nigel.Metheringham at InTechnology.co.uk ]
> [ Phone: +44 1423 850000                         Fax +44 1423 858866 ]
> [ - Comments in this message are my own and not ITO opinion/policy - ]
> [ ----- Security is not an add-on -- security is a way of life ----- ]
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users maillist  -  Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> 



From kris at solanix.org  Tue Jun  5 17:47:42 2001
From: kris at solanix.org (Kris Sanders)
Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 15:47:42 GMT
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Public lists
Message-ID: <20010605.15474200@redsand.solanix.org>

I have a list that I want public and according to the privacy options it 
should be showing up to regular users, yet when I goto 
my.domain/mailman/listinfo.cgi it is not there but if I were to look at 
the admin page my.domain/mailman/admin.cgi the list will show. How can I 
get the list onto the listinfo.cgi page? The listinfo.cgi is currently 
saying that there are no publicly advertised lists on the system.
Kris 
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From arandall at auntminnie.com  Tue Jun  5 17:58:04 2001
From: arandall at auntminnie.com (Amanda)
Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 08:58:04 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] set gid didn't work?
References: <3B1803C4.505F86A7@auntminnie.com>
	 <3B1BC8CC.DC9ABD6B@auntminnie.com> <3B1C2274.BEA6D8BF@auntminnie.com> <p05010402b742adbf0e95@[216.162.173.6]>
Message-ID: <3B1D018C.5C726CDD@auntminnie.com>

Well, you know, I read the docs six times... twice before getting started, once as I

was going through the process, and three more times after it broke, trying to figure

out what happened. It didn't get any more helpful.

What the install documentation says is:

[ --with-mail-gid=<group or groups>  Specify an alternative group for running
scripts via the mail wrapper. <group or groups> can be a list of one or more integer

group ids or symbolic group names. The first value in the list that resolves to an
existing group is used. By default, the value is the list "other daemon." This is
highly system dependent and you must get this right, because the group id is
compiled into the mail wrapper program for added security. On systems using
sendmail, the sendmail.cf configuration file designates the group id of sendmail
processes using the "DefaultUser" option.]

Great. So I'm not using sendmail, I'm using qmail. And it doesn't tell me WHICH
group I should be looking for. The readme.qmail doesn't specify which group id I
should be looking for either. All it tells me is "I must get this right." (That's a
LOT of help.) So I made my best SWAG, and apparently not only was I wrong, but the
group it tried to set it to (a) wasn't the one I specified, and (b) doesn't exist.

Just so you know, I am capable of RTFM ... I'm just not getting the information I
need out of it.

Next suggestion?
=)
Amanda

Harold Paulson wrote:

> Amanda,
>
> Reread the INSTALL documentation.  Everyone messes this up, so they
> put it in flashing neon red :)
>
>         - H
>
> >I'm trying to send messages to my test list and they're not going through. The
> >log is giving the following:
> >
> >Jun  4 16:49:58 tux Mailman mail-wrapper: Failure to exec script. WANTED gid
> >12, GOT
> >gid 401.  (Reconfigure to take 401?)
> >Jun  4 16:49:58 tux qmail: 991698598.174168 delivery 5: deferral:
> >Failure_to_exec_script._WANTED_gid_12,_GOT_gid_401.__(Reconfigure_to_take_401?)
> >
> >The kicker is, there *is* no group with gid 401. So I'm a little baffled...
> >What do I need to do to fix this?
> >
> >
> >Thanks,
> >=)
> >Amanda
>
> --
>
> Harold Paulson                  Sierra Web Design
> haroldp at sierraweb.com           http://www.sierraweb.com
> VOICE: 775.833.9500             FAX:   810.314.1517




From Nigel.Metheringham at VData.co.uk  Tue Jun  5 18:14:51 2001
From: Nigel.Metheringham at VData.co.uk (Nigel Metheringham)
Date: 05 Jun 2001 17:14:51 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] set gid didn't work?
In-Reply-To: <3B1D018C.5C726CDD@auntminnie.com>
References: <3B1803C4.505F86A7@auntminnie.com>
	<3B1BC8CC.DC9ABD6B@auntminnie.com> <3B1C2274.BEA6D8BF@auntminnie.com>
	<p05010402b742adbf0e95@[216.162.173.6]>  <3B1D018C.5C726CDD@auntminnie.com>
Message-ID: <991757691.5890.5.camel@gaspode.localnet>

On 05 Jun 2001 08:58:04 -0700, Amanda wrote:
> > >Jun  4 16:49:58 tux qmail: 991698598.174168 delivery 5: deferral:
> > >Failure_to_exec_script._WANTED_gid_12,_GOT_gid_401.__(Reconfigure_to_take_401?)
> > >
> > >The kicker is, there *is* no group with gid 401. So I'm a little baffled...
> > >What do I need to do to fix this?

As I recall, qmail hardwires a batch of its uids and gids when its
built, so you can easily have a running qmail using group 401 with no
group 401 defined on your system :-)

Try
    ./configure ... -with-mail-gid=401

    Nigel.

-- 
[ Nigel Metheringham           Nigel.Metheringham at InTechnology.co.uk ]
[ Phone: +44 1423 850000                         Fax +44 1423 858866 ]
[ - Comments in this message are my own and not ITO opinion/policy - ]
[ ----- Security is not an add-on -- security is a way of life ----- ]




From barry at digicool.com  Tue Jun  5 18:33:49 2001
From: barry at digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 12:33:49 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] set gid didn't work?
References: <3B1803C4.505F86A7@auntminnie.com>
	<3B1BC8CC.DC9ABD6B@auntminnie.com>
	<3B1C2274.BEA6D8BF@auntminnie.com>
	<p05010402b742adbf0e95@[216.162.173.6]>
	<3B1D018C.5C726CDD@auntminnie.com>
Message-ID: <15133.2541.238817.142161@anthem.wooz.org>

I'm coming in in the middle of this thread, but if mail-wrapper is
complaining with the following message:

> Jun 4 16:49:58 tux Mailman mail-wrapper: Failure to exec
> script. WANTED gid 12, GOT gid 401.  (Reconfigure to take 401?)

then it doesn't matter that there is no group name with gid 401.  That
actually isn't required either of Mailman or Unix, so just re-run
configure with

    --with-mail-gid=401

and it should work.  Now, as to /why/ qmail is executing the wrapper
with a gid that has no group name assigned, I couldn't tell you.

Hope that helps,
-Barry



From rac at gabriel.cambridge.ma.us  Tue Jun  5 18:39:22 2001
From: rac at gabriel.cambridge.ma.us (Richard Chonak)
Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 12:39:22 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: MIME messages
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 05 Jun 2001 12:01:34 EDT."
             <E157JGw-0003DT-00@mail.python.org> 
Message-ID: <200106051639.f55GdM917738@gabriel.gabriel.cambridge.ma.us>

The user probably has an e-mail program whose default setting is to
generate "multipart/alternative" mail with the message in both plain
text and HTML format.   Since this is evil anyway, I'd just urge him to
turn it off and send plain text only (non-MIME).  

If the user actually likes to send that sort of mail to his or her
fellow teenagers, he may be able to select plain-text format on a
per-message basis, as, e.g., in Netscape Messenger.

--RC






From arandall at auntminnie.com  Tue Jun  5 18:43:29 2001
From: arandall at auntminnie.com (Amanda)
Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 09:43:29 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] set gid didn't work?
References: <3B1803C4.505F86A7@auntminnie.com>
		<3B1BC8CC.DC9ABD6B@auntminnie.com> <3B1C2274.BEA6D8BF@auntminnie.com>
		<p05010402b742adbf0e95@[216.162.173.6]>  <3B1D018C.5C726CDD@auntminnie.com> <991757691.5890.5.camel@gaspode.localnet>
Message-ID: <3B1D0C31.904FD6BD@auntminnie.com>

Thank you, Nigel, for the suggestion. :-)

Unfortunately...  it apparently won't configure that way. When I run
./configure --with-mail-gid=401
it says:
[ No existing group found for the mail_wrapper program. This is the group that your mail
delivery agent runs under, and uses to run filter programs. You might want to specify an
existing group with the --with-mail-gid configure option. Please see your mail agent's
documentation, and the install file for details. ]

Well ... in the category of other potentially helpful information, when you install
qmail you make two groups (not eight, as previously suggested): qmail and nofiles. The
mail components appear to run from the qmail group with the various qmail uids. Neither
qmail nor nofiles has a gid of 401. To the best of my ability to determine, 401 doesn't
exist.

The readme.qmail suggests setting it to the GID of qmail, mailman, or nofiles. Tried all
three. They all give me failure_to_exec_script:_wanted_gid_[whichever],_got_gid_401. In
fact, so far, I've tried the group ids of qmail, nofiles, nobody, mail, mailman, and
website. No change except for the "wanted" gid in the log.

If it wants 401 and I can't give it 401, what do I do next? (Aside from taking it out in
the pasture and shooting it?)

::sigh::
=)
Amanda

[Further system info as the last time I mentioned this was several posts ago: mailman
2.0.5 on mandrake 8 with qmail 1.03, apache 1.3.20, using xinetd 2.1.8.8, and there's
very little else on the machine. It was set up for the express purpose of running
mailman.]

Nigel Metheringham wrote:

> As I recall, qmail hardwires a batch of its uids and gids when its
> built, so you can easily have a running qmail using group 401 with no
> group 401 defined on your system :-)
>
> Try
>     ./configure ... -with-mail-gid=401
>
>     Nigel.




From benwa at mail.ocentrix.com  Tue Jun  5 18:35:38 2001
From: benwa at mail.ocentrix.com (Ben Burnett)
Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 09:35:38 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Publicly advertised lists
Message-ID: <200106051635.f55GZc121370@mail.ocentrix.net>

An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20010605/ae252816/attachment.html 

From rangaraj at columbus.rr.com  Tue Jun  5 19:26:03 2001
From: rangaraj at columbus.rr.com (Raj Rangaraj)
Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 13:26:03 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] delete
Message-ID: <GKECLMEOAJGBJDHGOMBLCEKHCBAA.rangaraj@columbus.rr.com>

I like my name taken off the list.
rangraj at columbus.rr.com



From alaric at babylon5.babcom.com  Tue Jun  5 20:16:07 2001
From: alaric at babylon5.babcom.com (Phil Stracchino)
Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 11:16:07 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Using Mailman Lists
In-Reply-To: <3B1CF8C3.19105009@atl.sita.int>; from Bill.Jones@atl.sita.int on Tue, Jun 05, 2001 at 11:20:35AM -0400
References: <3B1CF8C3.19105009@atl.sita.int>
Message-ID: <20010605111607.B8171@babylon5.babcom.com>

On Tue, Jun 05, 2001 at 11:20:35AM -0400, Bill Jones wrote:
> How do you send a message to a list? I think I have everything
> configured properly but when I send a message to <listname>@<mailman
> domain> I get "User Unknown" back from sendmail on the mailman server. I
> cannot find a user's guide or any documentation. 

Sounds to me like you didn't configure the list aliases in your MTA.


-- 
 Linux Now!   ..........Because friends don't let friends use Microsoft.
 phil stracchino   --   the renaissance man   --   mystic zen biker geek
    Vr00m:  2000 Honda CBR929RR   --   Cage:  2000 Dodge Intrepid R/T
 Previous vr00mage:  1986 VF500F (sold), 1991 VFR750F3 (foully murdered)



From alaric at babylon5.babcom.com  Tue Jun  5 20:39:10 2001
From: alaric at babylon5.babcom.com (Phil Stracchino)
Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 11:39:10 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Member list in header/footer
In-Reply-To: <20010605112151.A25205@unixbrewers.org>; from sbarron@cs.ohiou.edu on Tue, Jun 05, 2001 at 11:21:51AM -0400
References: <20010604132458.D11436@unixbrewers.org> <991730612.5888.1.camel@gaspode.localnet> <20010605112151.A25205@unixbrewers.org>
Message-ID: <20010605113910.D8171@babylon5.babcom.com>

On Tue, Jun 05, 2001 at 11:21:51AM -0400, Scott Barron wrote:
> 
> Well, I managed to add a List-Members: header (along with the other List-*
> headers in Cookheader.py).  Believe me, I think this is just as stupid an idea
> as you do and will try one more time to explain the purpose of mailing list
> software.  You raise some good points that I will bring up to my boss.  The
> problem is he is used to maintaining his "list" as a list of addresses in
> Eudora or something like that (not familiar with that software).

In short, he's an idiot who doesn't understand the difference between a
mailing list and an address book alias.

Try pointing out to your PHB that (a) the extra mailserver load and
network traffic created by his list-members header increases as the square
of the number of subscribers, because if he doubles the number of
subscribers, it's twice as many addresses being spammed to twice as many
people; (b) as he adds subscribers, more and more of each message will be
useless list-members spew, which will not leave his subscribers
well-disposed to him; (c) at a certain point, the list-members header may
start crashing his subscribers' mail clients, which will leave them even
less kindly disposed to him; and (d) any list subscriber who actually
*wants* to see who's on the subscriber list can easily go look at it at
any time.

You might also point out that if he pisses people off enough with item-b
and item-c lossage, they may just unsubscribe and tell him to go blow.

(OK, so the extra header itself isn't actually going to load down the
server or the network that much.  Your PHB doesn't need to know that.)


-- 
 Linux Now!   ..........Because friends don't let friends use Microsoft.
 phil stracchino   --   the renaissance man   --   mystic zen biker geek
    Vr00m:  2000 Honda CBR929RR   --   Cage:  2000 Dodge Intrepid R/T
 Previous vr00mage:  1986 VF500F (sold), 1991 VFR750F3 (foully murdered)



From rpyne at kinfolk.org  Wed Jun  6 00:31:42 2001
From: rpyne at kinfolk.org (Richard Pyne)
Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 16:31:42 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] smtp connections refused
In-Reply-To: <20010605113910.D8171@babylon5.babcom.com>
References: <20010604132458.D11436@unixbrewers.org>
	<991730612.5888.1.camel@gaspode.localnet>
	<20010605112151.A25205@unixbrewers.org>
	<20010605113910.D8171@babylon5.babcom.com>
Message-ID: <20010605163142.49a6a41c.rpyne@kinfolk.org>

Is there any way to capture the smtp sessions from Mailman? 

I have a new installation on a new server that every attempt to send ANY email from Mailman show an 'connection refused' entry in the smtp-failure log.

Other mail from this server seems to be moving without any trouble, so I am fairly certain that it is not a firewall issue.

Thanks.

--Richard



From Randy.Galbraith at pegs.com  Wed Jun  6 01:49:19 2001
From: Randy.Galbraith at pegs.com (Galbraith, Randy)
Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 16:49:19 -0700 
Subject: [Mailman-Users] From address on subscribe
Message-ID: <8263D1EC0981D411981300B0D020E6FAFCFA84@pheexh02.pegs.com>

All,

I've installed and set up Mailman 2.0.5.  Everything works except one small
snag.  When a user subscribes to one of my lists the "from" address is set
to...

  test2-request at pegs.com

This won't work for me, instead I need it to read...

  test2-request at daffy.pegs.com

'"daffy" is a development box I work on running Mailman.  I have no control
over mail sent directly the our domain "pegs.com". So far, despite removing
several hair follicles, I haven't been able to see how to accomplish this.
Help please?

-Randy Galbraith




From techgrrl at beeze.com  Wed Jun  6 04:38:04 2001
From: techgrrl at beeze.com (Sarah K. Miller)
Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 19:38:04 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Removing single address from multiple lists
Message-ID: <05ef01c0ee31$b6f45d10$0200010a@home.beeze.com>

I know many people have asked for a way to remove a single address from multiple lists. Here's my solution (run as a script):

#!/bin/ksh
if [ -z $1 ];then
        print usage: mass_remove email_address
        exit
fi
email=$1
lists=`/home/mailman/bin/find_member $email |grep -v found`
if [ ""$lists"" -eq '' ];then
        print address not found
        exit 1
fi
print deleting $email from:
for list in $lists
do
        print $list
        /home/mailman/bin/remove_members $list $email
done




From bob at nleaudio.com  Wed Jun  6 05:47:50 2001
From: bob at nleaudio.com (Bob Puff@NLE)
Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 23:47:50 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Unsubscribe password less
References: <E157JGx-0003Da-00@mail.python.org>
Message-ID: <3B1DA7E6.C5E220ED@nleaudio.com>

> I'm still trying to find a way to unsubscribe though email without the use
> of a user specific password and without a confirm requirement. Is there a
> way to do it?

http://www.nleaudio.com/bnotes/mailman.htm



From mike at mgdesign.net  Wed Jun  6 07:31:00 2001
From: mike at mgdesign.net (Mike T. Gholson)
Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 22:31:00 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Almost there
Message-ID: <6A36A4FF313F4D459920D206EDF68BC70322C6@naboo.mgdesign.net>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Nigel Metheringham [mailto:Nigel.Metheringham at VData.co.uk]
>
> The config file you are working from is not referencing the list
> handling stuff at all - not even to decline the addresses.
----------------

I've copied the reference material from the README.EXIM and cross
referenced it on the howto site.

Something is awry.  It's not creating the aliases correctly
in the /etc/aliases file.  I wonder if it's the path statement
in the LRU List statement.  It's got a 7 before the path.

Do you see anything from this file that seems out of place?



[root at fairlady exim]# /usr/exim/bin/exim -d99 -bt test22-users
Exim version 3.22 debug level 99 uid=0 gid=0
Berkeley DB: Sleepycat Software: Berkeley DB 3.1.17: (July 31, 2000)
Caller is an admin user
Caller is a trusted user
originator: uid=0 gid=0 login=root name=root
sender address = root at 240z.org
Address testing: uid=0 gid=0 euid=0 egid=0
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Testing test22-users at 240z.org
240z.org in local_domains? yes (matched 240z.org)
240z.org in percent_hack_domains? no (end of list)
address test22-users at 240z.org
  local_part=test22-users domain=240z.org
  domain is local
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
directing test22-users at 240z.org
calling system_aliases director
df_lookup entered: search type = lsearch
system_aliases director: lsearch key=test22-users
  file="/etc/aliases"
search_open: lsearch "/etc/aliases"
search_find: file="/etc/aliases"
  key="test22-users" partial=-1
LRU list:
  7/etc/aliases
  End
internal_search_find: file="/etc/aliases"
  type=lsearch key="test22-users"
file lookup required for test22-users
  in /etc/aliases
lookup failed
system_aliases director declined for test22-users:
calling userforward director
userforward director declined for test22-users (not a user)
calling localuser director
localuser director declined for test22-users: no such user
list_owner_director director skipped: suffix mismatch
owner_list_director director skipped: prefix mismatch
list_admin_director director skipped: suffix mismatch
list_request_director director skipped: suffix mismatch
calling list_director director
require_files = /home/mailman/lists/test22-users/config.db
test existence of /home/mailman/lists/test22-users/config.db
  required present, EACCES => unknown
  No such file or directory
list_director director skipped: file existence failure
test22-users at 240z.org is undeliverable:
  unknown local-part "test22-users" in domain "240z.org"
search_tidyup called



From enriko.groen at netivity.nl  Wed Jun  6 09:43:27 2001
From: enriko.groen at netivity.nl (Enriko Groen)
Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 09:43:27 +0200 
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mmsitepass
Message-ID: <510EAC2065C0D311929200A0247252622F7794@NETIVITY-FS>

Hi!

I'm trying to change the Mailman site password of my Mailman 2.0.5
installation.
Sadly enough mmsitepass fails with "Password change failed." I have noticed
that the file data/adm.pw is changed anyway. But when I use this password to
unsubscribe a user, I get reply that the password is not correct.

What could be wrong? Could it have something to do with Crypt?


--
Enriko Groen, Hosting manager
--------------------------------------------------------
netivity bv   www.netivity.nl   enriko.groen at netivity.nl
038 - 850 1000   van nagellstraat 4      8011 eb  zwolle
--------------------------------------------------------
 



From enriko.groen at netivity.nl  Wed Jun  6 09:47:33 2001
From: enriko.groen at netivity.nl (Enriko Groen)
Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 09:47:33 +0200 
Subject: [Mailman-Users] From address on subscribe
Message-ID: <510EAC2065C0D311929200A0247252622F7795@NETIVITY-FS>


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Galbraith, Randy [mailto:Randy.Galbraith at pegs.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2001 01:49
> To: 'mailman-users at python.org'
> Subject: [Mailman-Users] From address on subscribe
> 
> 
> All,
> 
> I've installed and set up Mailman 2.0.5.  Everything works 
> except one small
> snag.  When a user subscribes to one of my lists the "from" 
> address is set
> to...
> 
>   test2-request at pegs.com
> 
> This won't work for me, instead I need it to read...
> 
>   test2-request at daffy.pegs.com

Change the "hostname this site preferes" setting in the list administration
pages to daffy.pegs.com

--
Enriko Groen, Hosting manager
--------------------------------------------------------
netivity bv   www.netivity.nl   enriko.groen at netivity.nl
038 - 850 1000   van nagellstraat 4      8011 eb  zwolle
--------------------------------------------------------
 



From joho at webbplatsen.se  Wed Jun  6 11:10:45 2001
From: joho at webbplatsen.se (Joaquim Homrighausen)
Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2001 11:10:45 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: MIME messages
In-Reply-To: <200106051639.f55GdM917738@gabriel.gabriel.cambridge.ma.us>
Message-ID: <E157ZKx-0001QK-00@mail.python.org>

 * On Tue, 05 Jun 2001 12:39:22 -0400, Richard Chonak wrote:

 >The user probably has an e-mail program whose default setting is to
 >generate "multipart/alternative" mail with the message in both plain
 >text and HTML format.   Since this is evil anyway, I'd just urge him to
 >turn it off and send plain text only (non-MIME).  

 >If the user actually likes to send that sort of mail to his or her
 >fellow teenagers, he may be able to select plain-text format on a
 >per-message basis, as, e.g., in Netscape Messenger.

I hear you and I agree, in a perfect world. But we don't live in a per-
fect world. We live in a world where HTML editing is the default for
many stupid e-mail clients, we live in a world where most users will
never see anything but Outlook Express and think they have the hottest
e-mail client on the planet.

So, my question sort of remains the same I suppose.. is there a way to
get Mailman to handle this properly?



:: Who dares wins ::





From claw at kanga.nu  Wed Jun  6 12:43:32 2001
From: claw at kanga.nu (J C Lawrence)
Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2001 03:43:32 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: MIME messages 
In-Reply-To: Message from "Joaquim Homrighausen" <joho@webbplatsen.se> 
   of "Wed, 06 Jun 2001 11:10:45 +0200." <E157ZKx-0001QK-00@mail.python.org> 
References: <E157ZKx-0001QK-00@mail.python.org> 
Message-ID: <15184.991824212@kanga.nu>

On Wed, 06 Jun 2001 11:10:45 +0200 
Joaquim Homrighausen <joho at webbplatsen.se> wrote:

> So, my question sort of remains the same I suppose.. is there a
> way to get Mailman to handle this properly?

The normal approach is to stick demime/mailfilter/stripmime in front
of the Mailman aliases.

-- 
J C Lawrence                                       claw at kanga.nu
---------(*)                          http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/
The pressure to survive and rhetoric may make strange bedfellows



From Nigel.Metheringham at VData.co.uk  Wed Jun  6 14:02:52 2001
From: Nigel.Metheringham at VData.co.uk (Nigel Metheringham)
Date: 06 Jun 2001 13:02:52 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Almost there
In-Reply-To: <6A36A4FF313F4D459920D206EDF68BC70322C6@naboo.mgdesign.net>
References: <6A36A4FF313F4D459920D206EDF68BC70322C6@naboo.mgdesign.net>
Message-ID: <991828972.31372.2.camel@rioja.localnet>

On 05 Jun 2001 22:31:00 -0700, Mike T. Gholson wrote:
> Something is awry.  It's not creating the aliases correctly
> in the /etc/aliases file.  I wonder if it's the path statement
> in the LRU List statement.  It's got a 7 before the path.

Mailman doesn't add things to the aliases file, and the exim
configuration I describe does not use aliases for the list functions -
instead it tests the address (with appropriate prefix/suffix removal)
against the existance of a file within the mailman tree - this tells it
whether a list exists.

> calling list_director director

it looks for a list construct...

> require_files = /home/mailman/lists/test22-users/config.db

checks whether the config.db file exists...

> test existence of /home/mailman/lists/test22-users/config.db
>   required present, EACCES => unknown
>   No such file or directory

and it either doesn't exist or is inacessible - actually check the
permissions against the user that exim runs as (although that appears to
be root here so thats not the problem unless NFS is in the mix)

> list_director director skipped: file existence failure
> test22-users at 240z.org is undeliverable:
>   unknown local-part "test22-users" in domain "240z.org"
> search_tidyup called

things to check:-
  1. Is your mailman installation under /home/mailman
     [if not change the macro at the top of the exim config]

  2. Does /home/mailman/lists/test22-users exist (or
     appropriate prefixed directory from (1).

  3. Is there a config.db in there and accessible
     (at least to see - don't need to be able to access it)
     from the uid/gid that exim runs under.

    Nigel.
-- 
[ Nigel Metheringham           Nigel.Metheringham at InTechnology.co.uk ]
[ Phone: +44 1423 850000                         Fax +44 1423 858866 ]
[ - Comments in this message are my own and not ITO opinion/policy - ]
[ ----- Security is not an add-on -- security is a way of life ----- ]




From matthew.malthouse at guardian.co.uk  Wed Jun  6 14:31:03 2001
From: matthew.malthouse at guardian.co.uk (matthew.malthouse at guardian.co.uk)
Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 13:31:03 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] reverse lookups on localhost
Message-ID: <80256A63.00466542.00@ldnmta01.guardian.co.uk>


On 25/05/2001 05:27:17 J C Lawrence wrote:


>  1) Change MTAs.  (recommended)

>Suggest: Look into Exim or Postfix instead.  Sendmail is not worth
>your time.

Comment.  I have used both exim and postfix to replace sendmail in linux
installs to work with mailman.

In both cases the install of the new MTA is easy, the replacement of sendmail's
funcionality good - nothing else got broken - and working with mailman excelent.

http://www.exim.org/
http://www.postfix.org/


Matthew





From joho at webbplatsen.se  Wed Jun  6 15:50:12 2001
From: joho at webbplatsen.se (Joaquim Homrighausen)
Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2001 15:50:12 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: MIME messages
In-Reply-To: <15184.991824212@kanga.nu>
Message-ID: <E157dhN-0007OH-00@mail.python.org>

 * On Wed, 06 Jun 2001 03:43:32 -0700, J C Lawrence wrote:

 >> So, my question sort of remains the same I suppose.. is there a
 >> way to get Mailman to handle this properly?

 >The normal approach is to stick demime/mailfilter/stripmime in front
 >of the Mailman aliases.

Any reason why I would want to use one over the other?



:: Who dares wins ::





From alex at phred.org  Wed Jun  6 16:14:03 2001
From: alex at phred.org (alex wetmore)
Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 07:14:03 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: MIME messages
In-Reply-To: <E157dhN-0007OH-00@mail.python.org>
Message-ID: <20010606070939.S3701-100000@phred.org>

On Wed, 6 Jun 2001, Joaquim Homrighausen wrote:
>  * On Wed, 06 Jun 2001 03:43:32 -0700, J C Lawrence wrote:
>
>  >> So, my question sort of remains the same I suppose.. is there a
>  >> way to get Mailman to handle this properly?
>
>  >The normal approach is to stick demime/mailfilter/stripmime in front
>  >of the Mailman aliases.
>
> Any reason why I would want to use one over the other?

Not really.  They have different implementations.  I wrote stripmime
when I couldn't find anything else, and I assume that the author of
demime did the same thing.  I haven't heard of mailfilter before.

One implmentation detail is that stripmime doesn't use any external
modules, while demime does.  Demime uses the CPAN Perl MIME modules,
which I wanted to avoid because they create temporary files or use
large in-memory buffers when processing large messages.  Stripmime
works one line at a time and never uses large chunks of memory.  On
the other hand the MIME parser that demime uses has been around longer
and might have fewer bugs.

A recent stripmime feature that I added is to convert HTML-only
messages into plaintext.  It doesn't always do a pretty job of the
conversion, but the conversion does work.  I don't know if demime has
this functionality.

http://www.phred.org/~alex/stripmime.html has information on
stripmime, and there is a link to demime at the bottom.  I've been
using it for over a year (50,000 or more messages have passed through
it on my system), so I'm pretty confident in the basic functionality.

alex




From enriko.groen at netivity.nl  Wed Jun  6 16:55:52 2001
From: enriko.groen at netivity.nl (Enriko Groen)
Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 16:55:52 +0200 
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bulk/announce
Message-ID: <510EAC2065C0D311929200A0247252622F779C@NETIVITY-FS>

Hi!

During the last weeks I have done some postings most of which were small
options to make mailman some sort of bulk mailer.
Although I would like to keep mailman as a mailinglist manager I'm finding
mailman not the best option for bulk mailing/announcement.

Any idea's how to make Mailman more towards a bulk mailer (with the
execelent bounce handling and other nice tricks intact)? 

Or should I step to another program/script or ezmlm (and qmail)? Of which
the last is least preferred.


--
Enriko Groen, Hosting manager
--------------------------------------------------------
netivity bv   www.netivity.nl   enriko.groen at netivity.nl
038 - 850 1000   van nagellstraat 4      8011 eb  zwolle
--------------------------------------------------------
 



From PBoshoff at mweb.com  Wed Jun  6 17:00:22 2001
From: PBoshoff at mweb.com (Pieter Boshoff)
Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 17:00:22 +0200 
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Upgrade!
Message-ID: <2FAFB5605430D411A0DD00805FEB9034011FED1E@za14nt02.mweb.com>

Hi,

I would just like to know if at all possible to upgrade mailman 2.01 to
2.05?

>  Pieter Boshoff
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> -------------------------------
>  unix sys admin
> Tel: +27 11 340 7256
> Fax: +27 11 340 7288
> Cell: +27 83 600 4095
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> -------------------------------
> M-WEB Business Solutions
> Making it happen.
> 
> Go shopping @ http://shopping.mweb.co.za 
> Get your business online @ http://business.mweb.com  
> 
> 



From pat at webexplorers.com.au  Wed Jun  6 17:06:17 2001
From: pat at webexplorers.com.au (Patrick Griffin)
Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2001 01:06:17 +1000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archives
Message-ID: <001301c0ee9a$3d26c860$0200a8c0@pat>

Hi All,
            I am running a moderated list and cannot access the archives
unless I make them public this is not something I want to do.

Hoping you can help.


Regards Pat





From arandall at auntminnie.com  Wed Jun  6 17:17:49 2001
From: arandall at auntminnie.com (Amanda)
Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2001 08:17:49 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] set gid didn't work?
Message-ID: <3B1E499D.91D47D@auntminnie.com>

> Oh darn, you're right.  I forgot that configure checks even numeric
> gids with getgrgid().  So it /does/ complain if there's no entry in
> /etc/group for the argument to --with-mail-gid.
>
>     A> So, it ain't working. Mail goes into mailman and is never
seen
>     A> again.  Argh.
>
> Did you set up the crontab?

Yuh. I did that. :-) Everything I "fix" breaks something else so far.
I'm
engaging in enough growling lately that the editors are frightened of
me...

=)
Amanda







From barry at digicool.com  Wed Jun  6 18:15:06 2001
From: barry at digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 12:15:06 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: MIME messages 
References: <E157ZKx-0001QK-00@mail.python.org>
	<15184.991824212@kanga.nu>
Message-ID: <15134.22282.681321.337448@anthem.wooz.org>

>>>>> "JCL" == J C Lawrence <claw at kanga.nu> writes:

    JCL> The normal approach is to stick demime/mailfilter/stripmime
    JCL> in front of the Mailman aliases.

Could someone write up a quick list of requirements for demimeing that
they'd like to see encorporated directly into Mailman 2.1?  Best would
be to include it in the Mailman design wiki:

    http://www.zope.org/Members/bwarsaw/MailmanDesignNotes/FrontPage

I think that with mimelib we have a powerful enough library to provide
demimeification, but I'm not sure I have a good sense of what people
would want to do with it.

-Barry



From barry at digicool.com  Wed Jun  6 18:16:51 2001
From: barry at digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 12:16:51 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bulk/announce
References: <510EAC2065C0D311929200A0247252622F779C@NETIVITY-FS>
Message-ID: <15134.22387.174421.752857@anthem.wooz.org>

>>>>> "EG" == Enriko Groen <enriko.groen at netivity.nl> writes:

    EG> Any idea's how to make Mailman more towards a bulk mailer
    EG> (with the execelent bounce handling and other nice tricks
    EG> intact)?

Can you describe what you think is missing from Mailman?

-Barry



From rogerk at QueerNet.ORG  Wed Jun  6 18:30:53 2001
From: rogerk at QueerNet.ORG (Roger B.A. Klorese)
Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 09:30:53 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: MIME messages 
In-Reply-To: <15134.22282.681321.337448@anthem.wooz.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSI.4.32.0106060930160.8273-100000@castro.queernet.org>

On Wed, 6 Jun 2001, Barry A. Warsaw wrote:
> Could someone write up a quick list of requirements for demimeing that
> they'd like to see encorporated directly into Mailman 2.1?

I entered a short proposal, but wasn't logged in, so they're in as
Anonymous User, alas.
-- 
ROGER B.A. KLORESE                                          rogerk at QueerNet.ORG
PO Box 14309		                                San Francisco, CA 94114
"Go without hate. But not without rage. Heal the world."        -- Paul Monette




From ckolar at aurora.edu  Wed Jun  6 18:53:34 2001
From: ckolar at aurora.edu (Christopher Kolar)
Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2001 11:53:34 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] admin/script headers error again
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010606114749.0276ed70@mail.aurora.edu>

Hello all.  I was looking through my archive of posts and, while this 
problem has come up with several users, I was never really able to find a 
solution.  I am running 2.0.5 and on occasions when a list owner is asked 
to approve a posting they get notification of an internal server error when 
submitting their approvals.  The apache log shows:

[Wed Jun  6 06:31:14 2001] [error] [client 172.16.200.75] Premature end of 
script headers: /usr/users/mailman/cgi-bin/admindb

Here are the weird parts:
    * Is is only happening on 3 of my ~40 lists.
    * It is only happening for one user
I checked, and there were no lock files around.  After getting the note 
from the user this morning I was able to go in myself and approve the 
postings with no problems.  Any suggestions?  Should I be looking into the 
user's browser doing anything weird with cookies, or check to see if they 
are logging out to close their admin sessions?  I am at a loss here and 
would appreciate any suggestions.

Thanks in advance,

--chris
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From chuqui at plaidworks.com  Wed Jun  6 19:03:00 2001
From: chuqui at plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach)
Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 10:03:00 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: MIME messages 
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSI.4.32.0106060930160.8273-100000@castro.queernet.org>
Message-ID: <200106061701.f56H1Ki05409@lists.apple.com>


On Wednesday, June 6, 2001, at 09:30 AM, Roger B.A. Klorese wrote:

> On Wed, 6 Jun 2001, Barry A. Warsaw wrote:
>> Could someone write up a quick list of requirements for demimeing that
>> they'd like to see encorporated directly into Mailman 2.1?
>
> I entered a short proposal, but wasn't logged in, so they're in as
> Anonymous User, alas.
>

Here are my thoughts.

At a bare minimum, Mailman should be able to strip a message to the 
plain-text part. DeMime does more than that (for instance, stripping the 
auto-added ad footers off of hotmail and yahoomail and etc), but we can 
argue if that is really mime related, or some other message-
prep/evaluation subsystem. either way, it'd be nice to have, but we 
could live without it.

Beyond that, though, I'd like a system that can control mime parts on a 
part-by-part basis. Either by saying "allow all except these 
mime-parts", or by saying "strip all but these mime parts". Any stripped 
part ought to be replaced with a text part that documents the 
modification by mailman.

Conceptually, not tough, but since you might need to start ripping apart 
nested mime-parts...





--
Chuq Von Rospach, Internet Gnome <http://www.chuqui.com>
[<chuqui at plaidworks.com> = <me at chuqui.com> = <chuq at apple.com>]
Yes, yes, I've finally finished my home page. Lucky you.

Q: Did God really create the world in seven days?
A: He did it in six days and nights while living on cola and candy
    bars.  On the seventh day he went home and found out his girlfriend
    had left him.



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From rclayton at aprisma.com  Wed Jun  6 19:09:27 2001
From: rclayton at aprisma.com (Clayton, Robert)
Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 13:09:27 -0400 
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bulk/announce
Message-ID: <5B628B202658D411AD8700508B7869F8038FE2EA@amt-exc1.aprisma.com>

Jeff Dairiki has put a demime patch there for .5.. I've been using it now without any issues. Perhaps you might want to talk to him before duplicating efforts.


thanks,
Bob


Bob 	

-----Original Message-----
From: barry at digicool.com [mailto:barry at digicool.com]
Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2001 12:17 PM
To: Enriko Groen
Cc: 'mailman-users at python.org'
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Bulk/announce



>>>>> "EG" == Enriko Groen <enriko.groen at netivity.nl> writes:

    EG> Any idea's how to make Mailman more towards a bulk mailer
    EG> (with the execelent bounce handling and other nice tricks
    EG> intact)?

Can you describe what you think is missing from Mailman?

-Barry

------------------------------------------------------
Mailman-Users maillist  -  Mailman-Users at python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users



From alaric at babylon5.babcom.com  Wed Jun  6 19:11:43 2001
From: alaric at babylon5.babcom.com (Phil Stracchino)
Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 10:11:43 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: MIME messages
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSI.4.32.0106060930160.8273-100000@castro.queernet.org>; from rogerk@QueerNet.ORG on Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 09:30:53AM -0700
References: <15134.22282.681321.337448@anthem.wooz.org> <Pine.BSI.4.32.0106060930160.8273-100000@castro.queernet.org>
Message-ID: <20010606101143.A864@babylon5.babcom.com>

On Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 09:30:53AM -0700, Roger B.A. Klorese wrote:
> On Wed, 6 Jun 2001, Barry A. Warsaw wrote:
> > Could someone write up a quick list of requirements for demimeing that
> > they'd like to see encorporated directly into Mailman 2.1?

Personally, there's only about three things I think a MLM needs to be able
to do, demime-wise, all of which should of course be optional per-list:

1. Strip binary attachments except for PGP signatures
	(An extension to this would be to strip binary attachments, save
	 them in a list-specified location, and insert a URL.  I can't
	 think of anything except PGP signatures that most lists would
	 need to let through.)

2. Flatten HTML text to ASCII text
	(HTML mail is an abomination.  End of story.)

3. Turn quoted-printable into plaintext
	(It seems to me that most mailers that send quoted-printable do it
	 very badly anyway, but that could be just my perception.)

Flattening multiple text attachments into inline text probably isn't a
good idea, or at least needs to be able to be turned off.  It makes things
like mailing patches difficult.


-- 
 Linux Now!   ..........Because friends don't let friends use Microsoft.
 phil stracchino   --   the renaissance man   --   mystic zen biker geek
    Vr00m:  2000 Honda CBR929RR   --   Cage:  2000 Dodge Intrepid R/T
 Previous vr00mage:  1986 VF500F (sold), 1991 VFR750F3 (foully murdered)



From chuqui at plaidworks.com  Wed Jun  6 19:16:05 2001
From: chuqui at plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach)
Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 10:16:05 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Fwd: delivery failure
Message-ID: <200106061714.f56HEOi06632@lists.apple.com>

Barry, whatever you do -- don't do it this way.

chuq


Begin forwarded message:

> From: "Bernhard R. Erdmann" <be at berdmann.de>
> Date: Wed Jun 06, 2001  10:11:55 AM US/Pacific
> To: Chuq Von Rospach <chuqui at plaidworks.com>
> Subject: delivery failure
>
> Your email Re: [Mailman-Users] Re: MIME messages , Wed, 6 Jun 2001 
> 10:03:00 -0700 containing HTML junk is not wanted here for security 
> reasons. It has been bounced without human intervention.
>
> ------ This is a copy of the message, including all the headers. ------
>
> Received: from ente.berdmann.de ([192.168.1.6] helo=localhost)
> 	by ente.berdmann.de with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2)
> 	id 157gqZ-00058c-00
> 	for be at berdmann.de; Wed, 06 Jun 2001 19:11:55 +0200
> X-Flags: 0000
> Delivered-To: GMX delivery to bernhard.erdmann at gmx.de
> Received: from pop.gmx.net [194.221.183.20]
> 	by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.5.0)
> 	for be at berdmann.de (single-drop); Wed, 06 Jun 2001 19:11:55 +0200 
> (CEST)
> Received: (qmail 28006 invoked by uid 0); 6 Jun 2001 17:05:34 -0000
> Received: from mout02.kundenserver.de (195.20.224.133)
>   by mx0.gmx.net (mx21) with SMTP; 6 Jun 2001 17:05:34 -0000
> Received: from [212.227.126.152] (helo=mxng01.kundenserver.de)
> 	by mout02.kundenserver.de with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #2)
> 	id 157gkQ-0002SO-00
> 	for bernhard.erdmann at gmx.de; Wed, 6 Jun 2001 19:05:34 +0200
> Received: from [63.102.49.29] (helo=mail.python.org)
> 	by mxng01.kundenserver.de with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #2)
> 	id 157gkP-0004Rh-00
> 	for be at berdmann.de; Wed, 06 Jun 2001 19:05:33 +0200
> Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=mail.python.org)
> 	by mail.python.org with esmtp (Exim 3.21 #1)
> 	id 157gj0-0006Tb-00; Wed, 06 Jun 2001 13:04:06 -0400
> Received: from [17.254.0.151] (helo=lists.apple.com)
> 	by mail.python.org with esmtp (Exim 3.21 #1)
> 	id 157giJ-0006Rm-00
> 	for mailman-users at python.org; Wed, 06 Jun 2001 13:03:23 -0400
> Received: from localhost (a203.plaidworks.com [209.239.169.203])
> 	by lists.apple.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f56H1Ki05409;
> 	Wed, 6 Jun 2001 10:01:20 -0700 (PDT)
> Message-Id: <200106061701.f56H1Ki05409 at lists.apple.com>
> From: Chuq Von Rospach <chuqui at plaidworks.com>
> Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
> 	boundary=Apple-Mail-846774061-1
> Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Re: MIME messages
> Cc: Chuq Von Rospach <chuqui at plaidworks.com>,
>    "Barry A. Warsaw" <barry at digicool.com>, J C Lawrence <claw at kanga.nu>,
>    Joaquim Homrighausen <joho at webbplatsen.se>,
>    "mailman-users at python.org" <mailman-users at python.org>,
>    Richard Chonak <rac at gabriel.cambridge.ma.us>
> To: "Roger B.A. Klorese" <rogerk at QueerNet.ORG>
> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.388)
> In-Reply-To: 
> <Pine.BSI.4.32.0106060930160.8273-100000 at castro.queernet.org>
> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v388)
> Sender: mailman-users-admin at python.org
> Errors-To: mailman-users-admin at python.org
> X-BeenThere: mailman-users at python.org
> X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.5 (101270)
> Precedence: bulk
> List-Help: <mailto:mailman-users-request at python.org?subject=help>
> List-Post: <mailto:mailman-users at python.org>
> List-Subscribe: <http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users>,
> 	<mailto:mailman-users-request at python.org?subject=subscribe>
> List-Id: Mailman mailing list management users <mailman-
> users.python.org>
> List-Unsubscribe: 
> <http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users>,
> 	<mailto:mailman-users-request at python.org?subject=unsubscribe>
> List-Archive: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/>
> Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 10:03:00 -0700
>
>
> --Apple-Mail-846774061-1
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> Content-Type: text/plain;
> 	format=flowed;
> 	charset=us-ascii
>
>
> On Wednesday, June 6, 2001, at 09:30 AM, Roger B.A. Klorese wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 6 Jun 2001, Barry A. Warsaw wrote:
>>> Could someone write up a quick list of requirements for demimeing that
>>> they'd like to see encorporated directly into Mailman 2.1?
>>
>> I entered a short proposal, but wasn't logged in, so they're in as
>> Anonymous User, alas.
>>
>
> Here are my thoughts.
>
> At a bare minimum, Mailman should be able to strip a message to the
> plain-text part. DeMime does more than that (for instance, stripping the
> auto-added ad footers off of hotmail and yahoomail and etc), but we can
> argue if that is really mime related, or some other message-
> prep/evaluation subsystem. either way, it'd be nice to have, but we
> could live without it.
>
> Beyond that, though, I'd like a system that can control mime parts on a
> part-by-part basis. Either by saying "allow all except these
> mime-parts", or by saying "strip all but these mime parts". Any stripped
> part ought to be replaced with a text part that documents the
> modification by mailman.
>
> Conceptually, not tough, but since you might need to start ripping apart
> nested mime-parts...
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Chuq Von Rospach, Internet Gnome <http://www.chuqui.com>
> [<chuqui at plaidworks.com> = <me at chuqui.com> = <chuq at apple.com>]
> Yes, yes, I've finally finished my home page. Lucky you.
>
> Q: Did God really create the world in seven days?
> A: He did it in six days and nights while living on cola and candy
>     bars.  On the seventh day he went home and found out his girlfriend
>     had left him.
>
>
>
>
> --Apple-Mail-846774061-1
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> Content-Type: text/enriched;
> 	charset=us-ascii
>
>
> On Wednesday, June 6, 2001, at 09:30 AM, Roger B.A. Klorese wrote:
>
>
> <excerpt>On Wed, 6 Jun 2001, Barry A. Warsaw wrote:
>
> <excerpt>Could someone write up a quick list of requirements for
> demimeing that
>
> they'd like to see encorporated directly into Mailman 2.1?
>
> </excerpt>
>
> I entered a short proposal, but wasn't logged in, so they're in as
>
> Anonymous User, alas.
>
>
> </excerpt>
>
> Here are my thoughts.
>
>
> At a bare minimum, Mailman should be able to strip a message to the
> plain-text part. DeMime does more than that (for instance, stripping
> the auto-added ad footers off of hotmail and yahoomail and etc), but
> we can argue if that is really mime related, or some other
> message-prep/evaluation subsystem. either way, it'd be nice to have,
> but we could live without it.
>
>
> Beyond that, though, I'd like a system that can control mime parts on
> a part-by-part basis. Either by saying "allow all except these
> mime-parts", or by saying "strip all but these mime parts". Any
> stripped part ought to be replaced with a text part that documents the
> modification by mailman.
>
>
> Conceptually, not tough, but since you might need to start ripping
> apart nested mime-parts...
>
>
>
>
> <color><param>0000,0000,DEB7</param>
>
> </color>
>
> --
>
> Chuq Von Rospach, Internet Gnome <<http://www.chuqui.com>
>
> [<<chuqui at plaidworks.com> = <<me at chuqui.com> = <<chuq at apple.com>]
>
> Yes, yes, I've finally finished my home page. Lucky you.
>
>
> Q: Did God really create the world in seven days?
>
> A: He did it in six days and nights while living on cola and candy
>
>    bars.  On the seventh day he went home and found out his girlfriend
>
>    had left him.
>
>
>
>
>
> --Apple-Mail-846774061-1--
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users maillist  -  Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
>

--
Chuq Von Rospach, Internet Gnome <http://www.chuqui.com>
[<chuqui at plaidworks.com> = <me at chuqui.com> = <chuq at apple.com>]
Yes, yes, I've finally finished my home page. Lucky you.

I tried to get a life once, but they were out of stock.





From claw at kanga.nu  Wed Jun  6 19:29:45 2001
From: claw at kanga.nu (J C Lawrence)
Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2001 10:29:45 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: MIME messages 
In-Reply-To: Message from "Joaquim Homrighausen" <joho@webbplatsen.se> 
   of "Wed, 06 Jun 2001 15:50:12 +0200." <20010606135019.328B73523@bush.kanga.nu> 
References: <20010606135019.328B73523@bush.kanga.nu> 
Message-ID: <26668.991848585@kanga.nu>

On Wed, 06 Jun 2001 15:50:12 +0200 
Joaquim Homrighausen <joho at webbplatsen.se> wrote:

>  * On Wed, 06 Jun 2001 03:43:32 -0700, J C Lawrence wrote:
>>> So, my question sort of remains the same I suppose.. is there a
>>> way to get Mailman to handle this properly?

>> The normal approach is to stick demime/mailfilter/stripmime in
>> front of the Mailman aliases.

> Any reason why I would want to use one over the other?

Personal preference really.  mimefilter has a debian package which
is nice for Debian systems (its written by the u$$a
.  Demime is a little messy to install
(muchos dependencies) but also has the largest feature set.

-- 
J C Lawrence                                       claw at kanga.nu
---------(*)                          http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/
The pressure to survive and rhetoric may make strange bedfellows



From tyler at beloit.edu  Wed Jun  6 19:58:24 2001
From: tyler at beloit.edu (Tim Tyler)
Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2001 12:58:24 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] header management?
Message-ID: <4.3.1.0.20010606125253.00c224f0@beloit.edu>

mailman experts,
   I just received a request from an owner of a list on how to limit many 
of the headers that are received by the end user.  While some headers are 
probably necessary, many are not.  Is it possible to limit which headers 
can be received by the end users?  I.e., Is it possible to remove headers 
from a list such as:
List-Help:
List-Post:
List-Subscribe:
etc.,

Any suggestions on this is much appreciated. -thanks!
Tim

Tim Tyler
Network Engineer - Beloit College
tyler at beloit.edu




From chuqui at plaidworks.com  Wed Jun  6 20:07:27 2001
From: chuqui at plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach)
Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 11:07:27 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] header management?
In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.0.20010606125253.00c224f0@beloit.edu>
Message-ID: <200106061805.f56I5lD16354@lists.apple.com>

On Wednesday, June 6, 2001, at 10:58 AM, Tim Tyler wrote:

> mailman experts,
>   I just received a request from an owner of a list on how to limit 
> many of the headers that are received by the end user.  While some 
> headers are probably necessary, many are not.

This is all over the archives. Barry, has this ever been added to the 
FAQ, so we can simply point to it and not restart this argument again?


--
Chuq Von Rospach, Internet Gnome <http://www.chuqui.com>
[<chuqui at plaidworks.com> = <me at chuqui.com> = <chuq at apple.com>]
Yes, yes, I've finally finished my home page. Lucky you.

I tried to get a life once, but they were out of stock.





From chrisb at kippona.com  Wed Jun  6 20:11:53 2001
From: chrisb at kippona.com (chrisb at kippona.com)
Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2001 14:11:53 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] sendmail8.12.0Beta10
Message-ID: <20010606141153K.chrisb@kippona.com>


Hello.  I recently upgraded (so I thought!) from
sendmail8.12.0Beta7 to sendmail8.12.0Beta10 and broke mailman:


Jun  6 17:59:22 mailnode sendmail[23054]: f56HxLrF023053: to="|/usr/local/mailman/mail/wrapper mailcmd project-list", ctladdr=<project-list-request at kippona.com> (65534/0), delay=00:00:00, xdelay=00:00:00, mailer=prog, pri=30861, dsn=5.3.0, stat=unknown mailer error 2

I fooled around with the Mprog definition in sendmail.cf and
submit.cf and with oid,gid of the mailman executables without
success.

Any ideas or similar experiences?

Thanks.

Chris



From arandall at auntminnie.com  Wed Jun  6 20:14:32 2001
From: arandall at auntminnie.com (Amanda)
Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2001 11:14:32 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] set gid didn't work?
References: <3B1E499D.91D47D@auntminnie.com>
Message-ID: <3B1E7308.C85AA680@auntminnie.com>

Amanda wrote:

> Everything I "fix" breaks something else so far. I'm engaging in enough
> growling lately that the editors are frightened of me...

Uy. No kidding.
Somebody please offer me some advice here...
Let me start from the beginning. [Again.]

I  have an HP Vectra XU archaic piece of junk running Mandrake 8 (kernel
2.4.3). It is running qmail 1.03 and Apache 1.3.20. Mail, telnet, and web
services are functioning as expected. I installed Mailman 2.0.5,
according to the documentation, made the proper qmail aliases, ran
crontab, added the CGI and alias stuff to httpd.conf, etc, etc.

When I initially installed the program, I ran it with-mail-gid=12 (mail).
Mail was going to the list admin, and I could access and modify the admin
page without issue. Later I discovered that the program wasn't passing
mail to the list, so I looked in the logs. I was getting this error
message:
    > Mailman mail-wrapper: Failure to exec script.
        WANTED gid 12, GOT gid 401.  (Reconfigure to take 401?)
    > qmail: 991698598.174168 delivery 5: deferral:
        Failure_to_exec_script._WANTED_gid_12,
        _GOT_gid_401.__(Reconfigure_to_take_401?)

Well, I thought that was a little weird, so I looked up gid 401, and it
doesn't exist. So I collected some additional information, and
reconfigured with mail gid set to 400 (qmail). It still wasn't working -
at this point the error message logged was:
    > Mailman mail-wrapper: Failure to exec script.
        WANTED gid 400, GOT gid 401.  (Reconfigure to take 401?)
    > qmail: 991698598.174168 delivery 5: deferral:
        Failure_to_exec_script._WANTED_gid_400,
        _GOT_gid_401.__(Reconfigure_to_take_401?)

So I attempted to reconfigure with gid 401. Then I got:
[ No existing group found for the mail_wrapper program. This is the group
that
your mail delivery agent runs under, and uses to run filter programs. You
might want to specify an existing group with the --with-mail-gid
configure option. Please see your mail agent's documentation, and the
install file for details. ]

So I attempted to nuke and pave. I ran make clean again, nuked the
/home/mailman directory, ran configure with the mail gid set to 400, ran
make install, exactly according to the reinstall instructions, did the
hokey-pokey, made sure the computer was facing east, paid a shaman to do
a dance to the mailing list gods...
...absolutely no change in the behaviour of the program:
    > Mailman mail-wrapper: Failure to exec script.
        WANTED gid 400, GOT gid 401.  (Reconfigure to take 401?)
    > qmail: 991698598.174168 delivery 5: deferral:
        Failure_to_exec_script._WANTED_gid_400,
        _GOT_gid_401.__(Reconfigure_to_take_401?)


What I want to know is if anybody can answer any of these questions for
me:

 - Where in the name of common sense is gid 401? When it says "GOT gid
401" where is it getting it? Who/what is passing a gid at that point?
 - Did I actually do enough to get a clean install of Mm, or are there
additional steps I can take to ensure that I'm really getting a clean
install?
 - Are there any suggestions for installing and configuring this thing in
a manner in which it might actually work?

We're now getting to the point where my head's going to be on a chopping
block if I cannot make it work. I'm more than slightly panicked about
that.

Thanks,
=)
Amanda





From barry at digicool.com  Wed Jun  6 20:22:32 2001
From: barry at digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 14:22:32 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] header management?
References: <4.3.1.0.20010606125253.00c224f0@beloit.edu>
	<200106061805.f56I5lD16354@lists.apple.com>
Message-ID: <15134.29928.963410.160398@anthem.wooz.org>

>>>>> "CVR" == Chuq Von Rospach <chuqui at plaidworks.com> writes:

    CVR> On Wednesday, June 6, 2001, at 10:58 AM, Tim Tyler wrote:

    >> mailman experts, I just received a request from an owner of a
    >> list on how to limit many of the headers that are received by
    >> the end user.  While some headers are probably necessary, many
    >> are not.

    CVR> This is all over the archives. Barry, has this ever been
    CVR> added to the FAQ, so we can simply point to it and not
    CVR> restart this argument again?

Here's what the FAQ says (in CVS, but not yet pushed out to the
servers):

-------------------- snip snip --------------------
Q. My list members are complaining about Mailman's List-* headers!
   What can I do about this?

A. These headers are added by Mailman for the long-term benefit of
   end-users.  Mailman is compliant with RFC 2369, which is where
   these headers are defined.  See the file README.USERAGENT for hints
   on what to tell your end users.
-------------------- snip snip --------------------

README.USERAGENT is attached.

Should we say more?  I'm open to suggestions.  If it looks okay, I'll
at least push the revised faq.html out.

-Barry



From harald at xeneris.net  Wed Jun  6 20:39:20 2001
From: harald at xeneris.net (Harald Nikolaus)
Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 20:39:20 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Putting user's address in the trailer
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.1010606202922.25004C-100000@dns.homunculus.net>

Hi all, 
I really think I have searched the list archive and the documentation
thouroughly without success, so I dare to ask here :-) 

Is there a way or a quick patch to put the address with which a user is
subscribed to a list in the trailer that is added to each message?
Many list members use different accounts and aliases, so they often don't
know under which one they are subscribed to a list. It shouldn't be too
hard to insert that address in the trailer of each message, should it?

Of course, I would also like to support a feature request that has been
voiced before: one click unsubscription. Is it hard to add
an URL to the trailer of each message, consisting of address and password,
making it possible to unsubscribe with one click?

Keep up the good work
says
Harald Nikolaus

----------------------------------------------
Xeneris media
Landhausstr. 3 - 69115 Heidelberg
Tel. +49-6221-502863-0, Fax 502863-4
E-mail: nikolaus at xeneris.net
http://www.xeneris.net
----------------------------------------------





From fil at rezo.net  Wed Jun  6 21:11:53 2001
From: fil at rezo.net (Fil)
Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 21:11:53 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: MIME messages
In-Reply-To: <20010606101143.A864@babylon5.babcom.com>; from alaric@babylon5.babcom.com on Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 10:11:43AM -0700
References: <15134.22282.681321.337448@anthem.wooz.org> <Pine.BSI.4.32.0106060930160.8273-100000@castro.queernet.org> <20010606101143.A864@babylon5.babcom.com>
Message-ID: <20010606211153.B22480@orwell.bok.net>

Well !! at home ("mutt" is my mailer) I read all of my mail in a text
window, and mutt does a splendid job with attachments: it passes them to
metamail; if there's a correct entry in /etc/mailcap, it parses the
attachment through the program indicated, for example catdoc for MSWord
documents, lynx -dump for html, and so on with PDF, PS, and what not (even
images are transformed via image2ascii !)

So whatever comes in the mail ends up displayed as text (if of a known type)
or deleted (unknown types, or stupid things like vcard.vcf)

My dream requirements wfor a truly good mime2text filter would be to
emulate METAMAIL. In fact metamail possesses all we need, except the ability
to run in an offline environment (and it seems not to be supported any
more).

Maybe that's too ambitious or platform specific?

> > > Could someone write up a quick list of requirements for demimeing that
> > > they'd like to see encorporated directly into Mailman 2.1?



From chuqui at plaidworks.com  Wed Jun  6 21:23:14 2001
From: chuqui at plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach)
Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 12:23:14 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Putting user's address in the trailer
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.3.96.1010606202922.25004C-100000@dns.homunculus.net>
Message-ID: <200106061915.f56JFCh23304@plaidworks.com>

On Wednesday, June 6, 2001, at 11:39 AM, Harald Nikolaus wrote:

> Is there a way or a quick patch to put the address with which a user is
> subscribed to a list in the trailer that is added to each message?

it's a common question. The answer is, not as things stand now. I think 
some folks have hacked some stuff in, but it's not really the way 
mailman is designed.

(barry, this is probably another FAQ item...)

> Many list members use different accounts and aliases, so they often 
> don't
> know under which one they are subscribed to a list.

that's the purpose of the monthly password reminder message.

> It shouldn't be too
> hard to insert that address in the trailer of each message, should it?
>
actually, yes. you have to significantly redo the delivery mechanism...


--
Chuq Von Rospach, Internet Gnome <http://www.chuqui.com>
[<chuqui at plaidworks.com> = <me at chuqui.com> = <chuq at apple.com>]
Yes, yes, I've finally finished my home page. Lucky you.

Someday, we'll look back on this, laugh
nervously and change the subject.





From be at berdmann.de  Wed Jun  6 22:53:33 2001
From: be at berdmann.de (Bernhard R. Erdmann)
Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2001 22:53:33 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Putting user's address in the trailer
References: <Pine.LNX.3.96.1010606202922.25004C-100000@dns.homunculus.net>
Message-ID: <3B1E984D.3960A41E@berdmann.de>

> Is there a way or a quick patch to put the address with which a user is
> subscribed to a list in the trailer that is added to each message?

They could look into the header lines to whom the mail was sent:

Received: from [63.102.49.29] (helo=mail.python.org)
        by mxng00.kundenserver.de with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #2)
        id 157iHu-0007Uc-00
        for be at berdmann.de; Wed, 06 Jun 2001 20:44:14 +0200



From joho at webbplatsen.se  Wed Jun  6 23:02:39 2001
From: joho at webbplatsen.se (Joaquim Homrighausen)
Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2001 23:02:39 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: MIME messages
In-Reply-To: <15134.22282.681321.337448@anthem.wooz.org>
Message-ID: <E157kPm-0005FE-00@mail.python.org>

 * On Wed, 6 Jun 2001 12:15:06 -0400, Barry A. Warsaw wrote:

 >Could someone write up a quick list of requirements for demimeing that
 >they'd like to see encorporated directly into Mailman 2.1?

I tend to agree with many of the other suggestions/responses to your
question. My primary functionality requirements are probably very
basic, but those I can think of right now are:

1) Being able to handle MIME:d messages when parsing requests.

2) Being able to handle MIME:d messages written to the list with
a number of options such as HTML->Text conversion, bouncing messages
with no plain/text part, etc.

3) Being able to extract/strip attachments.

All apart from the first one should, of course, be optional.

Alas, if we could prevent people from using such silly UA:s that
insist on doing the stupid things they do, things would be fine.
But having my fair share of interaction with users as a software
developer, I know Toto has left Kansas a long time ago.

My two cents.

%JoHo%







From becky at naturallymothering.net  Mon Jun  4 18:15:23 2001
From: becky at naturallymothering.net (Becky Wilson)
Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 09:15:23 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Posts coming to me not list
Message-ID: <004301c0ed11$a17e2680$9441b23f@default>

Hi,
All posts for my discussion are coming directly to me rather to the list.  This
happened suddenly late last night.  I can't seem to figure out what happened and how
to fix it.  Can anyone help?
TIA!
--
Becky




From beth at cedc.org  Mon Jun  4 19:40:13 2001
From: beth at cedc.org (Beth Ponticello)
Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 13:40:13 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] QUESTION
Message-ID: <p05001909b74177975696@[138.88.66.186]>

Hi,
my question is whether the administration features are web based such 
as configuring a new list?

Thanks



From cyril.ballesta at vz.cit.alcatel.fr  Tue Jun  5 10:08:42 2001
From: cyril.ballesta at vz.cit.alcatel.fr (Cyril Ballesta)
Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 10:08:42 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Some problems
Message-ID: <3B1C938A.4DE8AB93@vz.cit.alcatel.fr>

Hello
	,i run mailman with Sendmail and Apache,i can create a new list ,i have
the confirmation mail for my new list but when i subscribe to the list
,i have the confirmation mail and i can't reply the message to
test-request. I resceve mail by test-request or test-admin but i can't
reply to its.if you know where is the problem i wait for you to reply.
					Thank you.
							Cyril Ballesta



From nb at norbert.ch  Tue Jun  5 14:25:57 2001
From: nb at norbert.ch (Norbert Bollow)
Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 14:25:57 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Need mail merge capability
In-Reply-To: <991730834.5891.2.camel@gaspode.localnet> (message from Nigel
	Metheringham on 05 Jun 2001 09:47:09 +0100)
References: 
	<F9060760545DD21189D200A0C9E922C7016FF105@exchange.indexstock.com> <991730834.5891.2.camel@gaspode.localnet>
Message-ID: <200106051225.f55CPvB12282@quill>

> On 04 Jun 2001 13:55:43 -0400, Jim Saghir wrote:
> > I am running mailman under linux and would like to send a bulk email where
> > the email address of the recipient is included in the mesage body text (by
> > replacing a tag for example). 
> > Does mailman have this capability or do you know of a utility that I could
> > use with mailman to accomplish this?

Use qmail (with the verh patch) as MTA.

> No - this would require Mailman to do deliveries one address at a time
> rather than batched, and so would cost much more in terms of delivery.

The way around this is that replacing the tag must be done by
the MTA at the time of sending out the message via SMTP.

Greetings, Norbert.

-- 
Norbert Bollow, Weidlistr.18, CH-8624 Gruet (near Zurich, Switzerland)
Tel +41 1 972 20 59     Fax +41 1 972 20 69      nb at freedevelopers.net



From crOO at hampshire.edu  Tue Jun  5 16:27:04 2001
From: crOO at hampshire.edu (Carin Rank)
Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 10:27:04 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman list administration
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.1010605102202.22853F-100000@helios.hampshire.edu>

This is a request for the wishlist.  

It would be exremely helpful to be able to edit the welcome message that
goes out to subscribers.  I have edited text on the web so that our list
and posting information is clear.  Then the welcome message goes out with
information that is directly contradictory. 

See details following.

My text says:
**Posting to this list is reserved for CORC staff only.  If you would
like to post an internship, send information to corc at hampshire.edu and
your message will be forwarded to the list.  **

The automatic welcome message gets tagged on and says:
***To post to this list, send your email to:
  corcinternshipseekers-l at bork.hampshire.edu ***

Hmmmmmmm.......   You see the confusion.

Thanks for your help.
Carin Rank
CORC
crank at hamphsire.edu





From Lbanner at igateway.net  Wed Jun  6 02:44:27 2001
From: Lbanner at igateway.net (Sharon)
Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 19:44:27 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] question
Message-ID: <000001c0ee21$dc804860$b73c8ece@o6n8y2>

Have been investigating your program and was anxious to give it a try.
Suddenly... a problem...is this really only for Mac users?  What about the
rest of us?  Know of any programs comparable that I can use on a pc?
Sharon in St. Louis
QUILTERS' EXPRESS TOURS
bus + map tours to local quilt shops
http://www.quilterstours.com




From lindenmc at iquest.net  Wed Jun  6 04:11:59 2001
From: lindenmc at iquest.net (Dennis J. McCombs)
Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 22:11:59 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] timed delivery
Message-ID: <E157Snf-0001E0-00@mail.python.org>

I am developing a web site that will require daily e-mail to my 
subscribers.  I would like to write several mailings and 
program each one to be mailed at a certain date in the future.  Is 
there a format that can schedule future delivery?

You were referred to me by a current satisfied customer.




From David.Thomas at its.monash.edu  Wed Jun  6 08:42:33 2001
From: David.Thomas at its.monash.edu (David Thomas)
Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2001 16:42:33 +1000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problems with accessing mailman/admin
Message-ID: <3B1DD0D9.F6D00103@its.monash.edu>

I have set up mailman without any problems except that I cannot get into
the admin pages (or private archives)...

it give me the error:
[Wed Jun  6 15:28:19 2001] [error] [client 130.194.3.176] Premature end
of script headers: /usr/lib/mailman/cgi-bin/admin

I have looked at the FAQ about this and can see no reason why this would
happen, I have set the correct gid for mail, and apache is running as
www-data, which is listed as a default.

I get no indication that I cannot run cgi in the directory...

Any suggestions would be appreciated...

Yours,

David Thomas
--
David Thomas
Portal Developer/Integrator
ITS - Flexible Learning & Teaching
Monash University - Clayton
Ph: +61 (3) 990 55830



From joost at thor.edu  Wed Jun  6 20:36:14 2001
From: joost at thor.edu (Joost Claessen)
Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 20:36:14 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problems with admin webinterface
Message-ID: <20010606203613.A7045@Smerfje>

Hello ppl,

I have just install mailman (version 1.1-6 debian/potato) and configed it. After
that I creates a test mailinglist. So far so good... But when I try to login as
admin of the list trew the web interface, I get looged in, I make changes, press
"Submit your changes" and then I am back at the login screen. If I login for the
second time I see that there are no changes been made. I checked if I recieved
cookies when I login as admin, and I recieved them. I tried other browsers
(konqueror / netscape / yes even IE) but still the same problem. I've read the
readme's and FAQ's but couldn't find anything. Can pleaze somboy tell me what
I'm doing wrong, or point me to the wright doc? It would mean a great deal to
me. The webserver on the server is apache (version 1.3.9-13.2 debian/potato).
Many thanx in advance.

Mzzl Joost

PS: plz cc: me as I'm not subscribed to the list



From scriptures at ifriendly.com  Wed Jun  6 20:52:38 2001
From: scriptures at ifriendly.com (scriptures)
Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 14:52:38 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bugs
Message-ID: <001a01c0eeb9$dddecae0$ba2c43d8@ifriendly.com>

Webmaster,

I got the following bug message.


Bug in Mailman version 1.1

We're sorry, we hit a bug!
If you would like to help us identify the problem, please email a copy of
this page to the webmaster for this site with a description of what
happened. Thanks!

Traceback:


Traceback (innermost last):
  File "/home/mailman/scripts/driver", line 112, in run_main
    main()
  File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/admin.py", line 167, in main
    ChangeOptions(lst, category, cgi_data, doc)
  File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/admin.py", line 876, in ChangeOptions
    lst.SetUserOption(user, okey, 0)
  File "/home/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 217, in SetUserOption
    self.Save()
  File "/home/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 799, in Save
    self.CheckHTMLArchiveDir()
  File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/Archiver.py", line 274, in
CheckHTMLArchiveDir
    breaklink(pubdir)
  File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/Archiver.py", line 64, in breaklink
    reraise()
  File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/Archiver.py", line 60, in breaklink
    os.unlink(link)
OSError: [Errno 13] Permission denied:
'/home/mailman/archives/public/scriptures'





----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----

Environment variables:
Variable Value
DOCUMENT_ROOT  /usr/local/apache/htdocs
SERVER_ADDR  209.223.0.5
HTTP_ACCEPT_ENCODING  gzip, deflate
CONTENT_LENGTH  3004
CONTENT_TYPE  application/x-www-form-urlencoded
PATH_TRANSLATED  /usr/local/apache/htdocs/scriptures/members
HTTP_CONNECTION  Keep-Alive
SERVER_SOFTWARE  Apache/1.3.11 (Unix)
GATEWAY_INTERFACE  CGI/1.1
HTTP_COOKIE
scriptures:admin="(lp1\012S'216.67.44.186'\012p2\012aI991852944\012aI9918637
44\012aI73669634\012a."
HTTP_ACCEPT_LANGUAGE  en-us
REMOTE_ADDR  216.67.44.186
SERVER_PORT  80
TZ  US/Central
HTTP_USER_AGENT  Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.5; Windows 98; Mozilla/4.0
(compatible; MSIE 5.0; Windows NT; ifriendly.com))
HTTP_ACCEPT  image/gif, image/x-xbitmap, image/jpeg, image/pjpeg, */*
REQUEST_URI  /mailman/admin/scriptures/members
HTTP_CACHE_CONTROL  no-cache
PATH  /usr/sbin:/usr/bin
QUERY_STRING
SERVER_PROTOCOL  HTTP/1.1
PATH_INFO  /scriptures/members
HTTP_HOST  mail.network.lifeline.net
REQUEST_METHOD  POST
SERVER_SIGNATURE  Apache/1.3.11 Server at mail.network.lifeline.net Port 80
SCRIPT_NAME  /mailman/admin
SERVER_ADMIN  root at mail.network.lifeline.net
SCRIPT_FILENAME  /opt/users/mailman/cgi-bin/admin
PYTHONPATH  /home/mailman
HTTP_REFERER
http://mail.network.lifeline.net/mailman/admin/scriptures/members
SERVER_NAME  mail.network.lifeline.net
REMOTE_PORT  1056






From alex at phred.org  Wed Jun  6 23:15:42 2001
From: alex at phred.org (alex wetmore)
Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 14:15:42 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Putting user's address in the trailer
In-Reply-To: <3B1E984D.3960A41E@berdmann.de>
Message-ID: <20010606141505.K3701-100000@phred.org>

On Wed, 6 Jun 2001, Bernhard R. Erdmann wrote:
> > Is there a way or a quick patch to put the address with which a user is
> > subscribed to a list in the trailer that is added to each message?
>
> They could look into the header lines to whom the mail was sent:
>
> Received: from [63.102.49.29] (helo=mail.python.org)
>         by mxng00.kundenserver.de with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #2)
>         id 157iHu-0007Uc-00
>         for be at berdmann.de; Wed, 06 Jun 2001 20:44:14 +0200

It is not typical for MTAs to put that information into the Received:
line.  I never saw that before, until your message.  Probably an
Exim-only feature.

alex




From barry at digicool.com  Wed Jun  6 23:52:48 2001
From: barry at digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 17:52:48 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] set gid didn't work?
References: <3B1E499D.91D47D@auntminnie.com>
	<3B1E7308.C85AA680@auntminnie.com>
Message-ID: <15134.42544.193573.141360@anthem.wooz.org>

Short answer: I don't think it's a Mailman issue, per se.  I think
you've still got Qmail configuration problems.

I don't know how much you know about Unix processes, user ids, and
group ids, but an excellent reference on the subject (and really
almost /all/ things *nix) is W. Richard Stevens' "Advanced Programming
in the UNIX Environment".  Very highly recommended.

>>>>> "A" == Amanda  <arandall at auntminnie.com> writes:

    A>  - Where in the name of common sense is gid 401? When it says
    A> "GOT gid 401" where is it getting it? Who/what is passing a gid
    A> at that point?

When an MTA, e.g. Qmail in your case, tries to deliver a message to a
program, it will execute that program with certain user and group
ids.  Each MTA has a different way of deciding which uid and gid to
use when running a filter program.  I'm not sure about the exact
details of Qmail, but there /has/ to be a way to configure Qmail to
change the uid and gid.

For Mailman purposes, we don't care about the uid.  In your case,
Qmail is executing Mailman's mail-wrapper program with gid 401, which
Mailman determines through the getgid() system call.  Note, there's no
gid "getting passed" here; the (real) gid is an attribute of a Unix
process.

Now, Mailman's --with-mail-gid configure option says essentially sets
the MAIL_GID C macro to the numeric equivalent of the option's value.
Thus, say you've got a line like the following in your /etc/group
file:

qmail:x:400:

This is saying that the symbolic group name `qmail' has a gid of 400.
--with-mail-gid will allow you to use either a symbolic group name or
a numeric group id, but it will not allow you to specify one that
isn't in your /etc/group file.

So, the Qmail configuration problem you've got is that it's attempting
to execute filter programs using a gid that's not in your /etc/group
file.  You can either reconfigure Qmail to execute filter programs
with group=qmail/gid=400, or you can add a dummy group to your
/etc/group file like so:

qmailprogs:x:401:

(Note the exact format of /etc/group, or even whether you /use/ an
/etc/group as opposed to a NIS map or some other network information
system, is site dependent).

If you go with the first solution, you'll then want to recompile
Mailman --with-mail-gid=qmail but if you go with the second solution,
you'll want to recompile --with-mail-gid=qmailprogs

There's one more solution that might help: forget --with-mail-gid and
use a "make variable".  Because of the --with-mail-gid restriction
that the numeric gid must be in /etc/group, and because for you it is
not, let's assume you can't actually modify the /etc/group file, and
you can't get qmail to execute programs with gid 400.

In this case, after a "make clean", re-run Mailman's configure script
without the --with-mail-gid switch.  When you then run "make install",
do it like this instead:

    % make MAIL_GID=401 install

or perhaps

    % MAIL_GID=401 make install

(if you're using a Bourne shell derivative, like bash).
    
    A> - Did I actually do enough to get a clean
    A> install of Mm, or are there additional steps I can take to
    A> ensure that I'm really getting a clean install?

A "make clean" ought to be enough to solve this particular problem,
although even that may not be necessary.  Just rerunning configure,
"make install" ought to be enough -- when you figure out the right gid
to use!
    
    A>   - Are there
    A> any suggestions for installing and configuring this thing in a
    A> manner in which it might actually work?

I hope the above explains the issues in enough details to get it
working.  Just to re-iterate, I don't believe you have a Mailman
problem, but instead, qmail isn't quite configured correctly.

    A> We're now getting to the point where my head's going to be on a
    A> chopping block if I cannot make it work. I'm more than slightly
    A> panicked about that.

Well, we wouldn't want that!  Hopefully you can now get things
working.

Cheers,
-Barry



From arandall at auntminnie.com  Wed Jun  6 23:54:29 2001
From: arandall at auntminnie.com (Amanda)
Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2001 14:54:29 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] question
References: <000001c0ee21$dc804860$b73c8ece@o6n8y2>
Message-ID: <3B1EA694.945D7E54@auntminnie.com>

Hi Sharon,

To the best of my knowledge, Mailman is a Linux program. That means your
operating system has to be Linux, or at least based upon Linux, or at least be
able to pass for Linux in a dark alley on a moonless night. <grin>

It can/might run under MacOS X because if you look under the hood of X, it's
an awful lot like Linux. That is, at least partially, why it won't work on
earlier versions of MacOS, and won't work under Windows - those operating
systems have very little in common with the various Linux-based operating
systems.

FYI, it *will* run on a PC, if you're running Linux. It just won't work under
Windows. If you're brave, and you have a spare PC lying around, you can
install Linux and play around with it. If you have the patience and the
fundamental technical knowledge, it's actually a lot of fun. :-)

Of course, if you're just looking for an easy way to implement a mailing list,
and you're not an alpha geek or sysadmin type (I honestly don't have any idea
what your  level of technical expertise is, and I mean no insult, just
offering info), you might consider having your list hosted by a professional
organization who handles all the scary server and technical issues for you.

If that sounds attractive, check out http://www.topica.com (free, which is
certainly good for non-profit organizations) or http://www.egroups.com
(another pretty good list host, in my experience) or hit your favorite search
engine and look for mailing list hosting.

If you're really looking to host your own server with your own mailing list
program ... I'm not familiar with any reliable mailing list software for
Windows; that's why we went the Linux route. :-)

=)
Amanda
Webmaster
AuntMinnie.com



Sharon wrote:

> Have been investigating your program and was anxious to give it a try.
> Suddenly... a problem...is this really only for Mac users?  What about the
> rest of us?  Know of any programs comparable that I can use on a pc?
> Sharon in St. Louis
> QUILTERS' EXPRESS TOURS
> bus + map tours to local quilt shops
> http://www.quilterstours.com
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users maillist  -  Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users




From barry at digicool.com  Wed Jun  6 23:58:00 2001
From: barry at digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 17:58:00 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Putting user's address in the trailer
References: <Pine.LNX.3.96.1010606202922.25004C-100000@dns.homunculus.net>
	<200106061915.f56JFCh23304@plaidworks.com>
Message-ID: <15134.42856.711988.615831@anthem.wooz.org>

>>>>> "CVR" == Chuq Von Rospach <chuqui at plaidworks.com> writes:

    CVR> On Wednesday, June 6, 2001, at 11:39 AM, Harald Nikolaus
    CVR> wrote:

    >> Is there a way or a quick patch to put the address with which a
    >> user is subscribed to a list in the trailer that is added to
    >> each message?

    CVR> it's a common question. The answer is, not as things stand
    CVR> now. I think some folks have hacked some stuff in, but it's
    CVR> not really the way mailman is designed.

    CVR> (barry, this is probably another FAQ item...)

How's this:

Q. Can I put the user's address in the footer that Mailman adds to
   each message?

A. No.  The reason is that, for efficiency, Mailman batches together
   message delivery for many users at once.  Putting the user's
   address in the footer would require Mailman to craft a unique
   message for each recipient, and this would likely unacceptably bog
   down your system.

-Barry



From barry at digicool.com  Thu Jun  7 00:00:21 2001
From: barry at digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 18:00:21 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Need mail merge capability
References: <F9060760545DD21189D200A0C9E922C7016FF105@exchange.indexstock.com>
	<991730834.5891.2.camel@gaspode.localnet>
	<200106051225.f55CPvB12282@quill>
Message-ID: <15134.42997.273307.167273@anthem.wooz.org>

>>>>> "NB" == Norbert Bollow <nb at norbert.ch> writes:

    NB> Use qmail (with the verh patch) as MTA.

    >> No - this would require Mailman to do deliveries one address at
    >> a time rather than batched, and so would cost much more in
    >> terms of delivery.

    NB> The way around this is that replacing the tag must be done by
    NB> the MTA at the time of sending out the message via SMTP.

Ah, let's try this FAQ entry:

Q. Can I put the user's address in the footer that Mailman adds to
   each message?

A. No.  The reason is that, for efficiency, Mailman batches together
   message delivery for many users at once.  Putting the user's
   address in the footer would require Mailman to craft a unique
   message for each recipient, and this would likely unacceptably bog
   down your system.

   Some MTAs (e.g. Qmail) provide a facility known as VERP, which may
   be used to accomplish this.  You'll need to investigate the
   configuration options of your MTA for details.

-Barry



From tyler at beloit.edu  Thu Jun  7 00:13:34 2001
From: tyler at beloit.edu (Tim Tyler)
Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 17:13:34 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] header management?
In-Reply-To: <200106061805.f56I5lD16354@lists.apple.com> from "Chuq Von Rospach" at Jun 06, 2001 11:07:27 AM
Message-ID: <200106062213.RAA23404@beloit.edu>

I want to thank those that sent me information on editing the python code
for restricting headers.  I do agree that many of those headers are useful
for many lists, but there are occassions when they are more of a menace than
a help.  It would be nice if headers could be split into two categories of
fixed and optional.  It would be nice if a future release would grant the
owner the option of inclusion for headers that can be optional.  If its an
option, then it seems to me that everyone is happy.
 Anyways, I really didn't intend to stir up an arguement.  Just a suggestion
for the future.  In the meantime, I will live with the python hack method.

Thanks.
Tim 
 

>
>
>On Wednesday, June 6, 2001, at 10:58 AM, Tim Tyler wrote:
>
>> mailman experts,
>>   I just received a request from an owner of a list on how to limit 
>> many of the headers that are received by the end user.  While some 
>> headers are probably necessary, many are not.
>
>This is all over the archives. Barry, has this ever been added to the 
>FAQ, so we can simply point to it and not restart this argument again?
>
>
>--
>Chuq Von Rospach, Internet Gnome <http://www.chuqui.com>
>[<chuqui at plaidworks.com> = <me at chuqui.com> = <chuq at apple.com>]
>Yes, yes, I've finally finished my home page. Lucky you.
>
>I tried to get a life once, but they were out of stock.
>
>
>


-- 
Tim Tyler
Network Manager - Beloit College
tyler at beloit.edu
Go Packers! Go Badgers!
1999&2000 Rose Bowl Champions!



From ncooler at nandomedia.com  Thu Jun  7 00:09:55 2001
From: ncooler at nandomedia.com (Neil Cooler)
Date: 06 Jun 2001 18:09:55 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Need mail merge capability
In-Reply-To: <15134.42997.273307.167273@anthem.wooz.org>
References: 
	<F9060760545DD21189D200A0C9E922C7016FF105@exchange.indexstock.com>
	<991730834.5891.2.camel@gaspode.localnet> <200106051225.f55CPvB12282@quill>
	 <15134.42997.273307.167273@anthem.wooz.org>
Message-ID: <991865395.21433.2.camel@kneel>

Can you do this with sendmail?

It would be really sweet to be able to put a link at the bottom of a
posting like:

-----------------------------------
To Unsubscribe, Click below:
http://lists.foo.com/mailman/options/listname/username at foo.com

-Neil

On 06 Jun 2001 18:00:21 -0400, Barry A. Warsaw wrote:
> 
> >>>>> "NB" == Norbert Bollow <nb at norbert.ch> writes:
> 
>     NB> Use qmail (with the verh patch) as MTA.
> 
>     >> No - this would require Mailman to do deliveries one address at
>     >> a time rather than batched, and so would cost much more in
>     >> terms of delivery.
> 
>     NB> The way around this is that replacing the tag must be done by
>     NB> the MTA at the time of sending out the message via SMTP.
> 
> Ah, let's try this FAQ entry:
> 
> Q. Can I put the user's address in the footer that Mailman adds to
>    each message?
> 
> A. No.  The reason is that, for efficiency, Mailman batches together
>    message delivery for many users at once.  Putting the user's
>    address in the footer would require Mailman to craft a unique
>    message for each recipient, and this would likely unacceptably bog
>    down your system.
> 
>    Some MTAs (e.g. Qmail) provide a facility known as VERP, which may
>    be used to accomplish this.  You'll need to investigate the
>    configuration options of your MTA for details.
> 
> -Barry
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users maillist  -  Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users






From dmick at utopia.West.Sun.COM  Thu Jun  7 00:11:54 2001
From: dmick at utopia.West.Sun.COM (Dan Mick)
Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 15:11:54 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] question
Message-ID: <200106062211.PAA28103@utopia.West.Sun.COM>

> To the best of my knowledge, Mailman is a Linux program. That means your
> operating system has to be Linux, or at least based upon Linux, or at least be
> able to pass for Linux in a dark alley on a moonless night. <grin>

Ah, I love the New World...

What you mean is 'Unix'.




From arandall at auntminnie.com  Thu Jun  7 00:19:23 2001
From: arandall at auntminnie.com (Amanda)
Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2001 15:19:23 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] set gid didn't work?
References: <3B1E499D.91D47D@auntminnie.com> <3B1E7308.C85AA680@auntminnie.com>
Message-ID: <3B1EAC6B.79036DA@auntminnie.com>

You are NOT going to believe this one. I'm still not quite sure how this
happened...

 I *looked* for a gid of 401 ... and I looked at all the users the system
would list... No matter what I did, I couldn't get the alias user to show up
at all, short of a sledgehammer.

qmail has a user named alias which is supposed to be created in the "nofiles"
group. I went back to my own logs and when I created the users, I put alias
and the other appropriate qmail users in the nofiles group. However, for some
reason it didn't "take" - it would not belong to the nofiles group. I surmise
that the system didn't think it belonged to ANY group,and so gave it its own
group (?) ... and since nobody specified a text name for that group, the
group wouldn't show up. When I finally DID get it to show me the alias user,
guess what its group number was?

401.

I'm guessing that having a broken user "alias" would not affect other mail
going through qmail.... because the other things don't require the gid? Hmm.
It's strange ... because qmail's been working beautifully with the alias user
set wrong ... presumably this whole time?

Ergh.

::off to rip out every instance of gid 401 she can locate::

=)
Amanda
"I don't get paid enough for this"


Amanda wrote:

> Amanda wrote:
>
> > Everything I "fix" breaks something else so far. I'm engaging in enough
> > growling lately that the editors are frightened of me...
>
> Uy. No kidding.
> Somebody please offer me some advice here...
> Let me start from the beginning. [Again.]
>
> I  have an HP Vectra XU archaic piece of junk running Mandrake 8 (kernel
> 2.4.3). It is running qmail 1.03 and Apache 1.3.20. Mail, telnet, and web
> services are functioning as expected. I installed Mailman 2.0.5,
> according to the documentation, made the proper qmail aliases, ran
> crontab, added the CGI and alias stuff to httpd.conf, etc, etc.
>
> When I initially installed the program, I ran it with-mail-gid=12 (mail).
> Mail was going to the list admin, and I could access and modify the admin
> page without issue. Later I discovered that the program wasn't passing
> mail to the list, so I looked in the logs. I was getting this error
> message:
>     > Mailman mail-wrapper: Failure to exec script.
>         WANTED gid 12, GOT gid 401.  (Reconfigure to take 401?)
>     > qmail: 991698598.174168 delivery 5: deferral:
>         Failure_to_exec_script._WANTED_gid_12,
>         _GOT_gid_401.__(Reconfigure_to_take_401?)
>
> Well, I thought that was a little weird, so I looked up gid 401, and it
> doesn't exist. So I collected some additional information, and
> reconfigured with mail gid set to 400 (qmail). It still wasn't working -
> at this point the error message logged was:
>     > Mailman mail-wrapper: Failure to exec script.
>         WANTED gid 400, GOT gid 401.  (Reconfigure to take 401?)
>     > qmail: 991698598.174168 delivery 5: deferral:
>         Failure_to_exec_script._WANTED_gid_400,
>         _GOT_gid_401.__(Reconfigure_to_take_401?)
>
> So I attempted to reconfigure with gid 401. Then I got:
> [ No existing group found for the mail_wrapper program. This is the group
> that
> your mail delivery agent runs under, and uses to run filter programs. You
> might want to specify an existing group with the --with-mail-gid
> configure option. Please see your mail agent's documentation, and the
> install file for details. ]
>
> So I attempted to nuke and pave. I ran make clean again, nuked the
> /home/mailman directory, ran configure with the mail gid set to 400, ran
> make install, exactly according to the reinstall instructions, did the
> hokey-pokey, made sure the computer was facing east, paid a shaman to do
> a dance to the mailing list gods...
> ...absolutely no change in the behaviour of the program:
>     > Mailman mail-wrapper: Failure to exec script.
>         WANTED gid 400, GOT gid 401.  (Reconfigure to take 401?)
>     > qmail: 991698598.174168 delivery 5: deferral:
>         Failure_to_exec_script._WANTED_gid_400,
>         _GOT_gid_401.__(Reconfigure_to_take_401?)
>
> What I want to know is if anybody can answer any of these questions for
> me:
>
>  - Where in the name of common sense is gid 401? When it says "GOT gid
> 401" where is it getting it? Who/what is passing a gid at that point?
>  - Did I actually do enough to get a clean install of Mm, or are there
> additional steps I can take to ensure that I'm really getting a clean
> install?
>  - Are there any suggestions for installing and configuring this thing in
> a manner in which it might actually work?
>
> We're now getting to the point where my head's going to be on a chopping
> block if I cannot make it work. I'm more than slightly panicked about
> that.
>
> Thanks,
> =)
> Amanda




From arandall at auntminnie.com  Thu Jun  7 00:22:25 2001
From: arandall at auntminnie.com (Amanda)
Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2001 15:22:25 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] question
References: <200106062211.PAA28103@utopia.West.Sun.COM>
Message-ID: <3B1EAD21.FBD074F7@auntminnie.com>

Please don't put words in my mouth. :-)



Dan Mick wrote:

> > To the best of my knowledge, Mailman is a Linux program. That means your
> > operating system has to be Linux, or at least based upon Linux, or at least be
> > able to pass for Linux in a dark alley on a moonless night. <grin>
>
> Ah, I love the New World...
>
> What you mean is 'Unix'.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users maillist  -  Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users




From chuqui at plaidworks.com  Thu Jun  7 00:22:26 2001
From: chuqui at plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach)
Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 15:22:26 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] question
In-Reply-To: <200106062211.PAA28103@utopia.West.Sun.COM>
Message-ID: <200106062214.f56MENh27710@plaidworks.com>

On Wednesday, June 6, 2001, at 03:11 PM, Dan Mick wrote:

> Ah, I love the New World...
>
> What you mean is 'Unix'.
>

Paul McCartney was in a band before Wings? I don't believe it!


--
Chuq Von Rospach, Internet Gnome <http://www.chuqui.com>
[<chuqui at plaidworks.com> = <me at chuqui.com> = <chuq at apple.com>]
Yes, yes, I've finally finished my home page. Lucky you.

Shroedinger:
  We can never really be sure which side of the road the chicken is on.  
It's all a matter of chance.  Like a game of dice.

Einstein, refuting Schroedinger:
  God does not play dice with chickens.
Heisenburg:
We can determine how fast the chicken travelled, or where it ended up, 
but we cannot determine why it did so.





From chuqui at plaidworks.com  Thu Jun  7 00:21:25 2001
From: chuqui at plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach)
Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 15:21:25 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Need mail merge capability
In-Reply-To: <991865395.21433.2.camel@kneel>
Message-ID: <200106062213.f56MDNh27692@plaidworks.com>

On Wednesday, June 6, 2001, at 03:09 PM, Neil Cooler wrote:

> Can you do this with sendmail?

no, you can't.

> It would be really sweet to be able to put a link at the bottom of a
> posting like:
>

yes, it would. But it requires rebuilding the delivery engine from 
scratch. Lyris does it, if you absolutely must have it, but Lyris isn't 
free.


--
Chuq Von Rospach, Internet Gnome <http://www.chuqui.com>
[<chuqui at plaidworks.com> = <me at chuqui.com> = <chuq at apple.com>]
Yes, yes, I've finally finished my home page. Lucky you.

I'm out of my mind, but feel free to leave a
message...





From barry at digicool.com  Thu Jun  7 00:37:25 2001
From: barry at digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 18:37:25 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] question
References: <000001c0ee21$dc804860$b73c8ece@o6n8y2>
	<3B1EA694.945D7E54@auntminnie.com>
Message-ID: <15134.45221.562543.873548@anthem.wooz.org>

>>>>> "A" == Amanda  <arandall at auntminnie.com> writes:

    A> To the best of my knowledge, Mailman is a Linux program. That
    A> means your operating system has to be Linux, or at least based
    A> upon Linux, or at least be able to pass for Linux in a dark
    A> alley on a moonless night. <grin>

I'm supposed to officially chime in here to say "GNU Mailman runs on
GNU/Linux or any other Unix-like operating system".

:)

There are some specific porting issues with MacOS X, but they'll
eventually get all cleared up.

Sorry, no one's offered me enough money yet to port Mailman to any
flavor of Windows <wink>.

-Barry



From arandall at auntminnie.com  Thu Jun  7 00:39:18 2001
From: arandall at auntminnie.com (Amanda)
Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2001 15:39:18 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] set gid didn't work?
References: <3B1E499D.91D47D@auntminnie.com>
		<3B1E7308.C85AA680@auntminnie.com> <15134.42544.193573.141360@anthem.wooz.org>
Message-ID: <3B1EB116.96B081A2@auntminnie.com>

Thanks for the recommend! If I ever get my head above water enough to go
shopping for another book (much less read!) I will certainly consider it.

I wish I'd gotten your email two hours ago... it might have saved me about
half of the time that I spent figuratively crawling on my hands and knees
through the system with a flashlight and a magnifying glass. (The other
half was actually locating the pesky little critter and eradicating it.)

Barry, et al, I really appreciate all the suggestions and ideas and
support. Because of your (all of you's) input over the last few days I've
gotten one step closer to actually getting my job done. And believe me, I
will be relieved to move on to other things!

*sigh* I've spent the last sixteen years with a keyboard in my hands. I've
learned various programming languages, can make DOS do backflips, actually
have beaten (and continue to beat) Windows in its various incarnations
into terrified submission, have a fairly keen grasp on MacOS 7/8x, and
have a cute little certificate naming me "Hardware Goddess of the Month,"
can run circles around some of the Novell administrators to whom I used to
report - I know that stuff backwards and forwards in my sleep blindfolded
with one hand tied behind my back ..... but Linux is kicking my butt.
Classes, tutorials, and manuals - even a fair amount of user-end
experience - cannot even begin to prepare a person for the bizarre and
apparently random and stupid things that happen in a real-life linux admin
environment.

I hate it.

I take some consolation in the fact that the gurus who gave me all the
skinny on qmail in the first place were just as baffled by its behaviour
as I was. And the folks who so highly recommended Mandrake to me have been
thoroughly confused by the things that kept breaking during configuration
...

... if they can't make it work, what makes me think I can??

Makes me wonder why the freaking heck I ever signed up for this project.

</rant>
Sorry... tonight I will have a beer. Or three. I think I've earned it.

=)
Amanda


"Barry A. Warsaw" wrote:

> Short answer: I don't think it's a Mailman issue, per se.  I think
> you've still got Qmail configuration problems.
>
> I don't know how much you know about Unix processes, user ids, and
> group ids, but an excellent reference on the subject (and really
> almost /all/ things *nix) is W. Richard Stevens' "Advanced Programming
> in the UNIX Environment".  Very highly recommended.




From arandall at auntminnie.com  Thu Jun  7 00:41:24 2001
From: arandall at auntminnie.com (Amanda)
Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2001 15:41:24 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] question
References: <200106062214.f56MENh27710@plaidworks.com>
Message-ID: <3B1EB194.64D37CBE@auntminnie.com>

....McCartney was in a band called Wings?

::muttering:: I really gotta get outta my cube more... I'm starting to feel
old...

Chuq Von Rospach wrote:

> On Wednesday, June 6, 2001, at 03:11 PM, Dan Mick wrote:
>
> > Ah, I love the New World...
> >
> > What you mean is 'Unix'.
> >
>
> Paul McCartney was in a band before Wings? I don't believe it!
>
> --
> Chuq Von Rospach, Internet Gnome <http://www.chuqui.com>
> [<chuqui at plaidworks.com> = <me at chuqui.com> = <chuq at apple.com>]
> Yes, yes, I've finally finished my home page. Lucky you.
>
> Shroedinger:
>   We can never really be sure which side of the road the chicken is on.
> It's all a matter of chance.  Like a game of dice.
>
> Einstein, refuting Schroedinger:
>   God does not play dice with chickens.
> Heisenburg:
> We can determine how fast the chicken travelled, or where it ended up,
> but we cannot determine why it did so.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users maillist  -  Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users




From barry at digicool.com  Thu Jun  7 00:44:19 2001
From: barry at digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 18:44:19 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] question
References: <200106062211.PAA28103@utopia.West.Sun.COM>
Message-ID: <15134.45635.2741.135117@anthem.wooz.org>

>>>>> "DM" == Dan Mick <dmick at utopia.West.Sun.COM> writes:

    DM> Ah, I love the New World...

    DM> What you mean is 'Unix'.

I remember when I built my first Linux kernel.  Strains of Madonna's
"Like a Virgin" running through my head, when it actually worked, I
felt like a kid again.  Full of energy!  All-nighters!  No hacking
project too immense to tackle!  Naive in my time estimates!

Made me able to stave off that middle age crisis enough to return the
Harley for a full refund.

and-this-was-just-last-year-ly y'rs,
-Barry



From barry at digicool.com  Thu Jun  7 00:54:35 2001
From: barry at digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 18:54:35 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] set gid didn't work?
References: <3B1E499D.91D47D@auntminnie.com>
	<3B1E7308.C85AA680@auntminnie.com>
	<15134.42544.193573.141360@anthem.wooz.org>
	<3B1EB116.96B081A2@auntminnie.com>
Message-ID: <15134.46251.515178.158243@anthem.wooz.org>

>>>>> "A" == Amanda  <arandall at auntminnie.com> writes:

    A> have a fairly keen grasp on MacOS 7/8x

Glad to have helped.  Now sometime I'll get you to help me figure out
why my G4 tower running MacOS 9.1 keeps blinding itself to my USB Palm
cradle connected through a Belkin 4-port hub.  Whenever I reboot the
Mac or it wakes up from its "power nap", I have to unplug the cradle's
USB connector from the hub, and re-insert it.  /Then/ it'll hot sync.

:)

any-sufficiently-advanced-science-appears-as-magic-ly y'rs,
-Barry



From Randy.Galbraith at pegs.com  Thu Jun  7 01:05:54 2001
From: Randy.Galbraith at pegs.com (Galbraith, Randy)
Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 16:05:54 -0700 
Subject: [Mailman-Users] From address on subscribe
Message-ID: <8263D1EC0981D411981300B0D020E6FAFCFA94@pheexh02.pegs.com>

>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Galbraith, Randy [mailto:Randy.Galbraith at pegs.com]
>> Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2001 01:49
>> To: 'mailman-users at python.org'
>> Subject: [Mailman-Users] From address on subscribe
>> 
>> 
>> All,
>> 
>> I've installed and set up Mailman 2.0.5.  Everything works 
>> except one small
>> snag.  When a user subscribes to one of my lists the "from" 
>> address is set
>> to...
>> 
>>   test2-request at pegs.com
>> 
>> This won't work for me, instead I need it to read...
>> 
>>   test2-request at daffy.pegs.com
>
>Change the "hostname this site preferes" setting in the list administration
>pages to daffy.pegs.com
>
>--
>Enriko Groen, Hosting manager
>--------------------------------------------------------
>netivity bv   www.netivity.nl   enriko.groen at netivity.nl
>038 - 850 1000   van nagellstraat 4      8011 eb  zwolle
>--------------------------------------------------------
 
Enriko,

That was one of the first things I tried, but it doesn't seem to help.  Any
other ideas?  Thanks for your reply nonetheless.

-Randy Galbraith




From claw at kanga.nu  Thu Jun  7 05:05:27 2001
From: claw at kanga.nu (J C Lawrence)
Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2001 20:05:27 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] question 
In-Reply-To: Message from Amanda <arandall@auntminnie.com> 
   of "Wed, 06 Jun 2001 14:54:29 PDT." <3B1EA694.945D7E54@auntminnie.com> 
References: <000001c0ee21$dc804860$b73c8ece@o6n8y2>  <3B1EA694.945D7E54@auntminnie.com> 
Message-ID: <5806.991883127@kanga.nu>

On Wed, 06 Jun 2001 14:54:29 -0700 
arandall  <Amanda> wrote:

> To the best of my knowledge, Mailman is a Linux program. 

Ahem.  Its definitely __Unix__ oriented, but its not married to it.

-- 
J C Lawrence                                       claw at kanga.nu
---------(*)                          http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/
The pressure to survive and rhetoric may make strange bedfellows



From juha at saarinen.org  Thu Jun  7 05:37:37 2001
From: juha at saarinen.org (Juha Saarinen)
Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2001 15:37:37 +1200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Single list dies for no apparent reason
Message-ID: <000601c0ef03$3251dce0$0a01a8c0@den2>

I'm seeing a weird problem on our listserver. A single list is giving me
headaches -- the Web interface for the listadmin becomes inaccessible
(nothing is returned to the client browser from the Web server), and I
see these entries in MAILMAN_DIR$/locks:

-rw-rw-r--   2 nobody  mailman    59 Jun  7 17:51 topnews.lock
-rw-rw-r--   2 nobody  mailman    59 Jun  7 17:51
topnews.lock.lists.idg.co.nz.76417
-rw-rw-r--   1 nobody  mailman    59 Jun  7 17:51
topnews.lock.lists.idg.co.nz.76419
-rw-rw-r--   1 nobody  mailman    59 Jun  7 18:06
topnews.lock.lists.idg.co.nz.76538
-rw-rw-r--   1 nobody  mailman    59 Jun  7 19:08
topnews.lock.lists.idg.co.nz.76917
-rw-rw-r--   1 nobody  mailman    59 Jun  7 19:29
topnews.lock.lists.idg.co.nz.77039

Sending an email to the list-request address creates more lock files,
but no reply from Mailman.

If I rm these, the list starts working again, but it only takes a day
for the list to fall over again. None of the other lists exhibit this
behaviour... 

Note that while the date is correct, the time is isn't -- it's in the
future, off by several hours (about six in each case, I think). The
system date is correct, and I run ntp to synch the clock.

This is on a FreeBSD 4.3-STABLE box with Mailman 2.03; the Web server is
Apache 1.3.19 mod_ssl 2.8.2.

What could be causing this?

-- Juha




From mike at mgdesign.net  Thu Jun  7 07:14:18 2001
From: mike at mgdesign.net (Mike T. Gholson)
Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 22:14:18 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Almost there
Message-ID: <6A36A4FF313F4D459920D206EDF68BC70322DD@naboo.mgdesign.net>

Nigel,

Everything below is in check.  Here's the response I get when
trying to confirm an address:

This message was created automatically by mail delivery software (Exim).

A message that you sent could not be delivered to one or more of its
recipients. This is a permanent error. The following address(es) failed:

  check01-request at 240z.org
    Child process of list_request_transport transport returned 2 from
command:
    /home/mailman/mail/wrapper


Does this lead on to the possible problem?


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Nigel Metheringham [mailto:Nigel.Metheringham at VData.co.uk]
> Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2001 5:03 AM
> To: Mike T. Gholson
> Cc: mailman-users at python.org
> Subject: RE: [Mailman-Users] Almost there
> 
> 
> On 05 Jun 2001 22:31:00 -0700, Mike T. Gholson wrote:
> > Something is awry.  It's not creating the aliases correctly
> > in the /etc/aliases file.  I wonder if it's the path statement
> > in the LRU List statement.  It's got a 7 before the path.
> 
> Mailman doesn't add things to the aliases file, and the exim
> configuration I describe does not use aliases for the list functions -
> instead it tests the address (with appropriate prefix/suffix removal)
> against the existance of a file within the mailman tree - 
> this tells it
> whether a list exists.
> 
> > calling list_director director
> 
> it looks for a list construct...
> 
> > require_files = /home/mailman/lists/test22-users/config.db
> 
> checks whether the config.db file exists...
> 
> > test existence of /home/mailman/lists/test22-users/config.db
> >   required present, EACCES => unknown
> >   No such file or directory
> 
> and it either doesn't exist or is inacessible - actually check the
> permissions against the user that exim runs as (although that 
> appears to
> be root here so thats not the problem unless NFS is in the mix)
> 
> > list_director director skipped: file existence failure
> > test22-users at 240z.org is undeliverable:
> >   unknown local-part "test22-users" in domain "240z.org"
> > search_tidyup called
> 
> things to check:-
>   1. Is your mailman installation under /home/mailman
>      [if not change the macro at the top of the exim config]
> 
>   2. Does /home/mailman/lists/test22-users exist (or
>      appropriate prefixed directory from (1).
> 
>   3. Is there a config.db in there and accessible
>      (at least to see - don't need to be able to access it)
>      from the uid/gid that exim runs under.
> 
>     Nigel.
> -- 
> [ Nigel Metheringham           Nigel.Metheringham at InTechnology.co.uk ]
> [ Phone: +44 1423 850000                         Fax +44 1423 858866 ]
> [ - Comments in this message are my own and not ITO opinion/policy - ]
> [ ----- Security is not an add-on -- security is a way of life ----- ]
> 
> 



From mike at mgdesign.net  Thu Jun  7 07:17:57 2001
From: mike at mgdesign.net (Mike T. Gholson)
Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 22:17:57 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman with Linux 7.1
Message-ID: <6A36A4FF313F4D459920D206EDF68BC70322DE@naboo.mgdesign.net>

Is anyone else out there running Mailman
with a fresh install of Redhat Linux 7.1.
Meaning,  a non-upgrade of the same kernel.




From mike at mgdesign.net  Thu Jun  7 07:45:39 2001
From: mike at mgdesign.net (Mike T. Gholson)
Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 22:45:39 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Almost there
Message-ID: <6A36A4FF313F4D459920D206EDF68BC70325ED@naboo.mgdesign.net>

Holy crap, I figured it out.  Amazing.  Okay, here's
the deal related to Exim and Mailman.

Default install of Redhat 7.1 comes with sendmail.  We
all know that.  But, I didn't like the manual steps required
to create a list using sendmail.  So, I switched my MTA to Exim.

After I got Exim working correctly, I geared my efforts toward
getting Mailman to work properly.

Most items were working fine, I could create a list, the owner
was notified, a user could request membership, and they would
receive a confirmation check.

But, when the confirmation check was sent back to the exim/mailman
server... it bounced.

I even verified (as most of you have been watching) that the
directories and configuration files were created correctly with
the newlist command.  I should have been working!!

I failed to re-do one thing.  I was not rebuilding my Mailman
configuration to use the exim user account!  It was still trying
to use the --with-mail-gid using the old sendmail account.

After a rebuild with the exim user, it began to work smoothly.

Therefore, steps in question:

1) Disable sendmail
2) Install exim
3) Get exim working
4) Install mailman using the exim user for mail transport
5) Add mailman parameters to the exim 'configure' file
6) Restart services
7) Create a list
8) Verify that the list-admin is notified
9) Create a user
10) Verify that the new user is notified
11) Send confirmation back to the server for the new user
12) Send test messages to the list



These are the things that make *nix so fun.  It's annoying
and a pain in the ass until you get it working.  After that,
you love it.  Sort-of a hate/love relationship, eh?

-- Mike



> -----Original Message-----
> From: Nigel Metheringham [mailto:Nigel.Metheringham at VData.co.uk]
> Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2001 5:03 AM
> To: Mike T. Gholson
> Cc: mailman-users at python.org
> Subject: RE: [Mailman-Users] Almost there
> 
> 
> On 05 Jun 2001 22:31:00 -0700, Mike T. Gholson wrote:
> > Something is awry.  It's not creating the aliases correctly
> > in the /etc/aliases file.  I wonder if it's the path statement
> > in the LRU List statement.  It's got a 7 before the path.
> 
> Mailman doesn't add things to the aliases file, and the exim
> configuration I describe does not use aliases for the list functions -
> instead it tests the address (with appropriate prefix/suffix removal)
> against the existance of a file within the mailman tree - 
> this tells it
> whether a list exists.
> 
> > calling list_director director
> 
> it looks for a list construct...
> 
> > require_files = /home/mailman/lists/test22-users/config.db
> 
> checks whether the config.db file exists...
> 
> > test existence of /home/mailman/lists/test22-users/config.db
> >   required present, EACCES => unknown
> >   No such file or directory
> 
> and it either doesn't exist or is inacessible - actually check the
> permissions against the user that exim runs as (although that 
> appears to
> be root here so thats not the problem unless NFS is in the mix)
> 
> > list_director director skipped: file existence failure
> > test22-users at 240z.org is undeliverable:
> >   unknown local-part "test22-users" in domain "240z.org"
> > search_tidyup called
> 
> things to check:-
>   1. Is your mailman installation under /home/mailman
>      [if not change the macro at the top of the exim config]
> 
>   2. Does /home/mailman/lists/test22-users exist (or
>      appropriate prefixed directory from (1).
> 
>   3. Is there a config.db in there and accessible
>      (at least to see - don't need to be able to access it)
>      from the uid/gid that exim runs under.
> 
>     Nigel.
> -- 
> [ Nigel Metheringham           Nigel.Metheringham at InTechnology.co.uk ]
> [ Phone: +44 1423 850000                         Fax +44 1423 858866 ]
> [ - Comments in this message are my own and not ITO opinion/policy - ]
> [ ----- Security is not an add-on -- security is a way of life ----- ]
> 
> 



From nb at thinkcoach.com  Thu Jun  7 13:41:41 2001
From: nb at thinkcoach.com (Norbert Bollow)
Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2001 13:41:41 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Need mail merge capability
In-Reply-To: <15134.42997.273307.167273@anthem.wooz.org> (barry@digicool.com)
References: <F9060760545DD21189D200A0C9E922C7016FF105@exchange.indexstock.com>
	<991730834.5891.2.camel@gaspode.localnet>
	<200106051225.f55CPvB12282@quill> <15134.42997.273307.167273@anthem.wooz.org>
Message-ID: <200106071141.f57Bffg25316@quill>

Barry wrote:

> Ah, let's try this FAQ entry:
> 
> Q. Can I put the user's address in the footer that Mailman adds to
>    each message?
> 
> A. No.  The reason is that, for efficiency, Mailman batches together
>    message delivery for many users at once.  Putting the user's
>    address in the footer would require Mailman to craft a unique
>    message for each recipient, and this would likely unacceptably bog
>    down your system.
> 
>    Some MTAs (e.g. Qmail) provide a facility known as VERP, which may

VERP means "variable envelope return path", which is useful for
reliable bounce-handling.  It is not the same thing as including
the recipient email address in the message header or body.

>    be used to accomplish this.  You'll need to investigate the
>    configuration options of your MTA for details.

As a matter of fact, it is not possible with an unpatched,
out-of-the-box qmail installation.  However there is a widely-used,
well-tested patch for qmail which makes this possible.

If you like I can put up a webpage which explains how to set
this so up that you can do something like Neil Cooler wants, who
wrote:

> It would be really sweet to be able to put a link at the bottom of a
> posting like:
> 
> -----------------------------------
> To Unsubscribe, Click below:
> http://lists.foo.com/mailman/options/listname/username at foo.com

Neil Cooler <ncooler at nandomedia.com> also asked:
> Can you do this with sendmail?

Based on my reading of sendmail source code (way back, before
I switched to qmail) I can tell you that because of the way in
which sendmail is desgined, there is no straightforward way to
hack this functionality into sendmail.

Greetings, Norbert.

-- 
Norbert Bollow, Weidlistr.18, CH-8624 Gruet (near Zurich, Switzerland)
Tel +41 1 972 20 59     Fax +41 1 972 20 69      nb at freedevelopers.net



From eric.cantin at wbgroup.com  Thu Jun  7 16:29:01 2001
From: eric.cantin at wbgroup.com (Eric Cantin)
Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2001 10:29:01 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] messages queued in qfiles but not sending
Message-ID: <3B1F8FAD.21F0136E@wbgroup.com>

Hello everyone,

I had Mailman working beautifully for a week.  Now it doesn't work.  All
messages are being queued, but they are not sent.  If I manually type
the following line from the Mailman cron file, the queued messages are
sent "/usr/bin/python -S /home/mailman/cron/qrunner".

 What is causing this problem and how can I solve it?

Eric
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From barry at digicool.com  Thu Jun  7 16:49:36 2001
From: barry at digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2001 10:49:36 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] question
References: <200106062211.PAA28103@utopia.West.Sun.COM>
	<200106062214.f56MENh27710@plaidworks.com>
Message-ID: <15135.38016.641639.543793@anthem.wooz.org>

>>>>> "CVR" == Chuq Von Rospach <chuqui at plaidworks.com> writes:

    CVR> On Wednesday, June 6, 2001, at 03:11 PM, Dan Mick wrote:

    >> Ah, I love the New World...
    >>  What you mean is 'Unix'.

    CVR> Paul McCartney was in a band before Wings? I don't believe
    CVR> it!

Peter Gabriel sounds just like Phil Collins!  What?  He used to be in
Genesis?  No way!

showing-my-age-too-ly y'rs,
-Barry



From barry at digicool.com  Thu Jun  7 16:51:58 2001
From: barry at digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2001 10:51:58 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Single list dies for no apparent reason
References: <000601c0ef03$3251dce0$0a01a8c0@den2>
Message-ID: <15135.38158.101244.623806@anthem.wooz.org>

>>>>> "JS" == Juha Saarinen <juha at saarinen.org> writes:

    JS> What could be causing this?

You need to start by looking in the Mailman (logs/error) and Apache
(error_log) files to see if there are any useful Python tracebacks.

-Barry



From javier at kjsl.com  Thu Jun  7 16:53:30 2001
From: javier at kjsl.com (Javier Henderson)
Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2001 07:53:30 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] question
In-Reply-To: <15135.38016.641639.543793@anthem.wooz.org>
References: <200106062211.PAA28103@utopia.West.Sun.COM>
	<200106062214.f56MENh27710@plaidworks.com>
	<15135.38016.641639.543793@anthem.wooz.org>
Message-ID: <15135.38250.74782.956930@bogon.kjsl.com>

Barry A. Warsaw writes:
 > 
 > >>>>> "CVR" == Chuq Von Rospach <chuqui at plaidworks.com> writes:
 > 
 >     CVR> On Wednesday, June 6, 2001, at 03:11 PM, Dan Mick wrote:
 > 
 >     >> Ah, I love the New World...
 >     >>  What you mean is 'Unix'.
 > 
 >     CVR> Paul McCartney was in a band before Wings? I don't believe
 >     CVR> it!
 > 
 > Peter Gabriel sounds just like Phil Collins!  What?  He used to be in
 > Genesis?  No way!

	Keith Emerson was in a band before ELP.

	(Who? What band?)

-jav



From pug at pug.net  Thu Jun  7 16:51:52 2001
From: pug at pug.net (Pug Bainter)
Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2001 09:51:52 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] messages queued in qfiles but not sending
In-Reply-To: <3B1F8FAD.21F0136E@wbgroup.com>; from eric.cantin@wbgroup.com on Thu, Jun 07, 2001 at 10:29:01AM -0400
References: <3B1F8FAD.21F0136E@wbgroup.com>
Message-ID: <20010607095152.A8593@stardock.pug.net>

Eric Cantin (eric.cantin at wbgroup.com) said something that sounded like:
>  What is causing this problem and how can I solve it?

In all likelihood there is misformatting in the message. Look at
~mailman/logs/error for more information on what is wrong. It should be
growing rapidly in size with errors.

Ciao,

-- 
Pug Bainter                                        |        AMD, Inc.
System Engineer, MTS                               |      Mail Stop 625
 Pug.Bainter at amd.com      |  pug at pug.net           |  5900 E. Ben White Blvd
 Phone: (512) 602-0364    |  Fax: (512) 602-6970   |     Austin, TX 78741
Note: The views may not reflect my employers, or even my own for that matter.



From barry at digicool.com  Thu Jun  7 17:04:27 2001
From: barry at digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2001 11:04:27 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] question
References: <200106062211.PAA28103@utopia.West.Sun.COM>
	<200106062214.f56MENh27710@plaidworks.com>
	<15135.38016.641639.543793@anthem.wooz.org>
	<15135.38250.74782.956930@bogon.kjsl.com>
Message-ID: <15135.38907.40623.174901@anthem.wooz.org>

>>>>> "JH" == Javier Henderson <javier at kjsl.com> writes:

    JH> 	Keith Emerson was in a band before ELP.

    JH> 	(Who? What band?)

Two words: John Rutsey.



From eric.cantin at wbgroup.com  Thu Jun  7 17:18:37 2001
From: eric.cantin at wbgroup.com (Eric Cantin)
Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2001 11:18:37 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] messages queued in qfiles but not sending
References: <3B1F8FAD.21F0136E@wbgroup.com> <20010607095152.A8593@stardock.pug.net>
Message-ID: <3B1F9B4D.159C7D40@wbgroup.com>

My error log in mailman/logs is empty.  Please correct me if I'm wrong, does the
mailman cron control the delivery?

Pug Bainter wrote:

> Eric Cantin (eric.cantin at wbgroup.com) said something that sounded like:
> >  What is causing this problem and how can I solve it?
>
> In all likelihood there is misformatting in the message. Look at
> ~mailman/logs/error for more information on what is wrong. It should be
> growing rapidly in size with errors.
>
> Ciao,
>
> --
> Pug Bainter                                        |        AMD, Inc.
> System Engineer, MTS                               |      Mail Stop 625
>  Pug.Bainter at amd.com      |  pug at pug.net           |  5900 E. Ben White Blvd
>  Phone: (512) 602-0364    |  Fax: (512) 602-6970   |     Austin, TX 78741
> Note: The views may not reflect my employers, or even my own for that matter.
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From pug at pug.net  Thu Jun  7 17:09:36 2001
From: pug at pug.net (Pug Bainter)
Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2001 10:09:36 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] messages queued in qfiles but not sending
In-Reply-To: <3B1F9B4D.159C7D40@wbgroup.com>; from eric.cantin@wbgroup.com on Thu, Jun 07, 2001 at 11:18:37AM -0400
References: <3B1F8FAD.21F0136E@wbgroup.com> <20010607095152.A8593@stardock.pug.net> <3B1F9B4D.159C7D40@wbgroup.com>
Message-ID: <20010607100936.A8683@stardock.pug.net>

Eric Cantin (eric.cantin at wbgroup.com) said something that sounded like:
> My error log in mailman/logs is empty.  Please correct me if I'm wrong, does the
> mailman cron control the delivery?

Yes it does.

Ciao,

-- 
Pug Bainter                                        |        AMD, Inc.
System Engineer, MTS                               |      Mail Stop 625
 Pug.Bainter at amd.com      |  pug at pug.net           |  5900 E. Ben White Blvd
 Phone: (512) 602-0364    |  Fax: (512) 602-6970   |     Austin, TX 78741
Note: The views may not reflect my employers, or even my own for that matter.



From javier at kjsl.com  Thu Jun  7 17:13:27 2001
From: javier at kjsl.com (Javier Henderson)
Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2001 08:13:27 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] question
In-Reply-To: <15135.38907.40623.174901@anthem.wooz.org>
References: <200106062211.PAA28103@utopia.West.Sun.COM>
	<200106062214.f56MENh27710@plaidworks.com>
	<15135.38016.641639.543793@anthem.wooz.org>
	<15135.38250.74782.956930@bogon.kjsl.com>
	<15135.38907.40623.174901@anthem.wooz.org>
Message-ID: <15135.39447.432147.147769@bogon.kjsl.com>

Barry A. Warsaw writes:
 > 
 > >>>>> "JH" == Javier Henderson <javier at kjsl.com> writes:
 > 
 >     JH> 	Keith Emerson was in a band before ELP.
 > 
 >     JH> 	(Who? What band?)
 > 
 > Two words: John Rutsey.

	Did computers exist when you were born?

-jav



From eric.cantin at wbgroup.com  Thu Jun  7 17:41:44 2001
From: eric.cantin at wbgroup.com (Eric Cantin)
Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2001 11:41:44 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] messages queued in qfiles but not sending
References: <3B1F8FAD.21F0136E@wbgroup.com> <20010607095152.A8593@stardock.pug.net> <3B1F9B4D.159C7D40@wbgroup.com> <20010607100936.A8683@stardock.pug.net>
Message-ID: <3B1FA0B8.95F1B4BE@wbgroup.com>

Looks like my cron jobs aren't working.

Pug Bainter wrote:

> Eric Cantin (eric.cantin at wbgroup.com) said something that sounded like:
> > My error log in mailman/logs is empty.  Please correct me if I'm wrong, does the
> > mailman cron control the delivery?
>
> Yes it does.
>
> Ciao,
>
> --
> Pug Bainter                                        |        AMD, Inc.
> System Engineer, MTS                               |      Mail Stop 625
>  Pug.Bainter at amd.com      |  pug at pug.net           |  5900 E. Ben White Blvd
>  Phone: (512) 602-0364    |  Fax: (512) 602-6970   |     Austin, TX 78741
> Note: The views may not reflect my employers, or even my own for that matter.
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From enriko.groen at netivity.nl  Thu Jun  7 17:41:20 2001
From: enriko.groen at netivity.nl (Enriko Groen)
Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2001 17:41:20 +0200 
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bulk/announce
Message-ID: <510EAC2065C0D311929200A0247252622F77A8@NETIVITY-FS>


> -----Original Message-----
> From: barry at digicool.com [mailto:barry at digicool.com]
> 
> >>>>> "EG" == Enriko Groen <enriko.groen at netivity.nl> writes:
> 
>     EG> Any idea's how to make Mailman more towards a bulk mailer
>     EG> (with the execelent bounce handling and other nice tricks
>     EG> intact)?
> 
> Can you describe what you think is missing from Mailman?

I had a couple of ideas yesterday... but I can't recall them :(

One was an option to not accept any emails from non qualified addresses. So
like mailman works now, but without notification to the list manager that
someone is trying to post.

However... this is not really a big thing.

BTW: Where do I sign up for translation of the catalogs to dutch?

--
Enriko Groen, Hosting manager
--------------------------------------------------------
netivity bv   www.netivity.nl   enriko.groen at netivity.nl
038 - 850 1000   van nagellstraat 4      8011 eb  zwolle
--------------------------------------------------------
 



From claw at kanga.nu  Thu Jun  7 19:26:58 2001
From: claw at kanga.nu (J C Lawrence)
Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2001 10:26:58 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] question 
In-Reply-To: Message from barry@digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw) 
   of "Thu, 07 Jun 2001 10:49:36 EDT." <15135.38016.641639.543793@anthem.wooz.org> 
References: <200106062211.PAA28103@utopia.West.Sun.COM> <200106062214.f56MENh27710@plaidworks.com>  <15135.38016.641639.543793@anthem.wooz.org> 
Message-ID: <24891.991934818@kanga.nu>

On Thu, 7 Jun 2001 10:49:36 -0400 
Barry A Warsaw <barry at digicool.com> wrote:

> Peter Gabriel sounds just like Phil Collins!  What?  He used to be
> in Genesis?  No way!

. o O ( You mean there's music after Ella Fitzgerald? Where? )
-- 
J C Lawrence                                       claw at kanga.nu
---------(*)                          http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/
The pressure to survive and rhetoric may make strange bedfellows



From eric.cantin at wbgroup.com  Thu Jun  7 20:03:41 2001
From: eric.cantin at wbgroup.com (Eric Cantin)
Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2001 14:03:41 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] messages queued in qfiles but not sending
References: <3B1F8FAD.21F0136E@wbgroup.com> <20010607095152.A8593@stardock.pug.net> <3B1F9B4D.159C7D40@wbgroup.com> <20010607100936.A8683@stardock.pug.net> <3B1FA0B8.95F1B4BE@wbgroup.com>
Message-ID: <3B1FC1FD.B9C605A3@wbgroup.com>

My cron log file was corrupt.  Everything is back to normal.

Thanks

Eric
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From tyler at beloit.edu  Thu Jun  7 20:45:53 2001
From: tyler at beloit.edu (Tim Tyler)
Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2001 13:45:53 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] subscription bulk removals?
Message-ID: <200106071845.NAA24608@beloit.edu>

mailman experts,
  Whats the quickest way to remove all users (unsubscribe everyone) from a
list?  Its rather time consuming when one has a list of 1000 or more users
to go through and check the unsubscribe box for each address individually. 
Is there a command or short cut for unsubscribing everyone? 
 
-- 
Tim Tyler
Network Manager - Beloit College
tyler at beloit.edu



From techgrrl at beeze.com  Thu Jun  7 21:38:06 2001
From: techgrrl at beeze.com (Sarah K. Miller)
Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2001 12:38:06 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] subscription bulk removals?
References: <200106071845.NAA24608@beloit.edu>
Message-ID: <007b01c0ef89$60dc1d10$0200010a@home.beeze.com>

bin/remove_members -a listname

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Tim Tyler" <tyler at beloit.edu>
To: <mailman-users at python.org>
Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2001 11:45 AM
Subject: [Mailman-Users] subscription bulk removals?


> mailman experts,
>   Whats the quickest way to remove all users (unsubscribe everyone) from a
> list?  Its rather time consuming when one has a list of 1000 or more users
> to go through and check the unsubscribe box for each address individually. 
> Is there a command or short cut for unsubscribing everyone? 
>  
> -- 
> Tim Tyler
> Network Manager - Beloit College
> tyler at beloit.edu
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users maillist  -  Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> 




From yaron at ort.edu.ar  Thu Jun  7 22:09:32 2001
From: yaron at ort.edu.ar (Yaron Zarfati)
Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2001 17:09:32 -0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] restricting only list owner to post
Message-ID: <3B1FB54C.2333.6E4A4C7@localhost>

hello, this is my first mail to the list, i installed mailman 2.0.5, it 
worked from the first minute !
but i need to maintain a list where only the administrator can write.
looking at Christopher Kolar?s documentetion i found that if i set
?posting restricted to list members? to no
and writing some addresses in the list of ?Addresses of members 
accepted for posting to this list without implicit approval ?
only those addresses can post.
i also set ?posts be approved by an administrator? to no
what i?m getting now is that people listed can post, but anyone 
else goes to the ?administrative pending requests?, so the list 
owner has to reject every message...
how should i set the privacy options so only the list owner can 
post ?

just another question, when is the mm-cfg.py read ?
i changed there the default chunk size, and reinstalled, but only 
new lists show the new number at a time, old lists show the 
default...

thank you very much in advance !






From agils at olanet.net  Thu Jun  7 22:49:11 2001
From: agils at olanet.net (agils)
Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2001 22:49:11 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] help
Message-ID: <001001c0ef93$52027e60$83de96d5@AntonioGil>

How do I know wheather my registration with you is well completed?
Thanks
Antonio Gil
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From franc at ncsi.iisc.ernet.in  Fri Jun  8 13:55:21 2001
From: franc at ncsi.iisc.ernet.in (Francis Jayakanth)
Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2001 17:25:21 +0530 (IST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Repeating mails
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0106081716570.11507-100000@ncsi.iisc.ernet.in>

Dear Member:

We are using mailman 2.0.3. on RH Linux 6.2 for the last six months
without much of a problem. But yesterday after approving two messages we
noticed that the same two messages were being broadcasted repeatedly. Even
clearing the /home/mailman/qfiles dir. did not stop from the broadcasting
of repeated mails. Finally we had to kill the sendmail process.

i would like to know what causes the mailman to behave in such a way. Is
it a bug or any configuration needs to be done on our part? Could somebody
pl. clarify?

Thanking you in anticipation.

with warm regards,

 - Francis J
NCSI, IISc.,
Bangalore, India - 5600 12
franc at ncsi.iisc.ernet.in





From el_sandocan at yahoo.es  Fri Jun  8 13:54:06 2001
From: el_sandocan at yahoo.es (=?iso-8859-1?q?Alberto=20Perez?=)
Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2001 13:54:06 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] I need your help!
Message-ID: <20010608115406.99818.qmail@web13302.mail.yahoo.com>

Hello everybody!

I?m sorry, but I don?t speak english very well.

I want to know if I can configure my list so that only
the administrator can send e-mail to the list.

Thanks!!

_______________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Messenger: Comunicaci?n instant?nea gratis con tu gente -
http://messenger.yahoo.es



From detlef.neubauer at charite.de  Fri Jun  8 16:52:50 2001
From: detlef.neubauer at charite.de (Detlef Neubauer)
Date: 08 Jun 2001 16:52:50 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] I need your help!
In-Reply-To: Alberto Perez's message of "Fri, 8 Jun 2001 13:54:06 +0200 (CEST)"
References: <20010608115406.99818.qmail@web13302.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <m3pucf58hp.fsf@mailman.charite.de>

Alberto Perez <el_sandocan at yahoo.es> writes:

> I want to know if I can configure my list so that only
> the administrator can send e-mail to the list.

http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2001-May/011410.html
http://www.aurora.edu/~ckolar/mailman/mailman-administration-v2.html

 Gru? Detlef Neubauer

-- 
.oO GnuPG Key auf http://germany.keyserver.net/ Oo.



From barry at digicool.com  Fri Jun  8 18:09:38 2001
From: barry at digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2001 12:09:38 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Repeating mails
References: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0106081716570.11507-100000@ncsi.iisc.ernet.in>
Message-ID: <15136.63682.661675.240798@anthem.wooz.org>

>>>>> "FJ" == Francis Jayakanth <franc at ncsi.iisc.ernet.in> writes:

    FJ> We are using mailman 2.0.3. on RH Linux 6.2 for the last six
    FJ> months without much of a problem. But yesterday after
    FJ> approving two messages we noticed that the same two messages
    FJ> were being broadcasted repeatedly. Even clearing the
    FJ> /home/mailman/qfiles dir. did not stop from the broadcasting
    FJ> of repeated mails. Finally we had to kill the sendmail
    FJ> process.

    FJ> i would like to know what causes the mailman to behave in such
    FJ> a way. Is it a bug or any configuration needs to be done on
    FJ> our part? Could somebody pl. clarify?

If you cleared the qfiles directory and you're /still/ getting
duplicates, then I suspect it's not a Mailman bug you're
encountering.

Do you have a copy of the offending message?  If so, check it for
embedded NUL bytes (i.e. ASCII 0).  It could be that Sendmail is
choking on such messages, triggering a bug that causes it to resend
the message.  You might be able to double check the culprit by looking
at the headers of the dup'd messages (do they have the same
Message-ID? The same Dates? etc.)

Mailman itself /should/ have no problem with messages containing NULs,
since Python itself is also doesn't treat embedded-NULs specially.
There has been some discussion about having Mailman strip out NULs
before passing them on to the MTA.  I thought at one point I had
addressed that issue, but now I can't find it in the code, so perhaps
not.

-Barry



From luser at ahab.com  Fri Jun  8 20:33:00 2001
From: luser at ahab.com (JT)
Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2001 14:33:00 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] separate smtp server
Message-ID: <20010608143300.K309@zed.unbeat.com>

I am trying to set up a mailman installation where the web and smtp
servers are separate... E.g., the list address is mylist at foo.org,
my mail server is mail.foo.org, and the interface is maintained on
www.foo.org

And all of a sudden I'm not sure it's possible, although apparently it
is possible, looking at this very list -- mailman-users at python.org,
mail.python.org, www.python.org!!!

	* Wouldn't each server have to know about the list, and therefor
	maintain their own configurations?  That's obviously a problem.
	How do I avoid it?

	* Or do I just need to do proper mail routing to get this to
	behave?  IOW, the MUA routes list mail to the web server, which
	then "knows" what to do?

I know I'm missing the obvious here, but I just can't see it...  It
MUST be the mail-routing solution, but I can't figure out what goes
where and to what accounts on what servers...  Sendmail-specific
recommendations would be convenient, but any reasonably lucid
explanation of where the mail goes and I'll plod my way through
aliases, virtusertable, etc.

TIA,
JT





From alex at phred.org  Fri Jun  8 21:57:46 2001
From: alex at phred.org (alex wetmore)
Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2001 12:57:46 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] separate smtp server
In-Reply-To: <20010608143300.K309@zed.unbeat.com>
Message-ID: <20010608125504.G17915-100000@phred.org>

On Fri, 8 Jun 2001, JT wrote:
> I am trying to set up a mailman installation where the web and smtp
> servers are separate... E.g., the list address is mylist at foo.org,
> my mail server is mail.foo.org, and the interface is maintained on
> www.foo.org

My first question is, what is your goal in doing this?

I have a system where the web and smtp servers are mostly seperate.
The server which hosts the lists primarily does the web stuff, and has
incoming email via postfix.  Mailman hands off outgoing email to
another SMTP server which is better setup to handle sending large
amounts of email.  This configuration is really easy to setup and
might meet your needs.

If you don't want to expose the smtp server on the web box to the
world then you could have incoming email go to the smtp box, and have
it hand off mailman mail to the web box.  This way the smtp server on
the web box would only need to allow connections from the smtp box.
If I had to run behind a single IP address this is the configuration
that I would use.

alex




From luser at ahab.com  Fri Jun  8 22:10:18 2001
From: luser at ahab.com (JT)
Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2001 16:10:18 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: separate smtp server: Solved??
In-Reply-To: <20010608143300.K309@zed.unbeat.com>; from luser@ahab.com on Fri, Jun 08, 2001 at 02:33:00PM -0400
References: <20010608143300.K309@zed.unbeat.com>
Message-ID: <20010608161018.F3036@zed.unbeat.com>

OK, so the mail server doesn't need to know anything about mailman in
particular: for the generated aliases, e.g.
	mylist:		"wrapper blah blah"
Do instead
	mylist:		mylist at webserver.foo.org

And set up the web server normally.  I think this works! 

Generally I try to stop myself from asking questions when I can figure
out the answer on my own, but this was one of those times where I
figured it out by asking in the right way...

I can't believe I didn't try Mailman earlier.  I have no problem with
mailing in commands, but my list administrators find Mailman much
easier than that other thing we use...

On Fri, Jun 08, 2001 at 02:33:00PM -0400, JT wrote:
> I am trying to set up a mailman installation where the web and smtp
> servers are separate... E.g., the list address is mylist at foo.org,
> my mail server is mail.foo.org, and the interface is maintained on
> www.foo.org
> 
> And all of a sudden I'm not sure it's possible, although apparently it
> is possible, looking at this very list -- mailman-users at python.org,
> mail.python.org, www.python.org!!!
> 
> 	* Wouldn't each server have to know about the list, and therefor
> 	maintain their own configurations?  That's obviously a problem.
> 	How do I avoid it?
> 
> 	* Or do I just need to do proper mail routing to get this to
> 	behave?  IOW, the MUA routes list mail to the web server, which
> 	then "knows" what to do?
> 
> I know I'm missing the obvious here, but I just can't see it...  It
> MUST be the mail-routing solution, but I can't figure out what goes
> where and to what accounts on what servers...  Sendmail-specific
> recommendations would be convenient, but any reasonably lucid
> explanation of where the mail goes and I'll plod my way through
> aliases, virtusertable, etc.
> 
> TIA,
> JT
> 
> 

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------
 Jason Thaxter        /"\   ASCII Ribbon Campaign
 jason at thaxter.net    \ / - NO HTML/RTF in e-mail
 (917) 334-9981        X  - NO Word docs in e-mail
                      / \
-------------------------------------------------------------------




From wahorn at aace.com  Fri Jun  8 22:48:46 2001
From: wahorn at aace.com (Ashley Horn)
Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2001 16:48:46 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Announce Only Lists
Message-ID: <HJEIJKNIDPMLFKEKBDKOCENECDAA.wahorn@aace.com>

Where can I find info on creating announce only lists?

Ashley Horn




From simon.jackson at sysworks.com.au  Sat Jun  9 07:59:22 2001
From: simon.jackson at sysworks.com.au (Simon L. Jackson)
Date: Sat, 09 Jun 2001 15:59:22 +1000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Multiple configurations
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010609155340.00bf9590@wheresmymailserver.com>

Dear Mailman Users,

I have multiple web sites for multiple domains hosted on one of our servers.

I would like to allow multiple mailing lists per domain managed through one 
or more of the web sites which belong to that domain.

But, I would prefer not to see the mailing lists associated with other 
domains from a given domain.

Another way of putting this might be that I want to introduce an additional 
layer into the site .. list hierarchy.

I note that some Mailman documentation refers to a virtual hosts feature. 
As far as I can see this is for mailing and various labelling features 
rather than collecting mailing lists.

Am I missing something?

Has anyone else tried to achieve this end?

Should this go on the wish list?

Cheers,

Simon L. Jackson




From mailman at vo.cnchost.com  Sat Jun  9 18:04:55 2001
From: mailman at vo.cnchost.com (JC Dill)
Date: Sat, 09 Jun 2001 09:04:55 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Announce Only Lists
In-Reply-To: <HJEIJKNIDPMLFKEKBDKOCENECDAA.wahorn@aace.com>
Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010609090331.0346cb40@pop3.vo.cnchost.com>

On 01:48 PM 6/8/01, Ashley Horn wrote:
 >Where can I find info on creating announce only lists?

If you search the list archives (see URL below) for "announce only" you 
will find many posts and links to web FAQs that answer this frequently 
asked question.  The web FAQ is also referenced in the README.

jc

(posted and mailed)

 >
 >Ashley Horn
 >
 >
 >------------------------------------------------------
 >Mailman-Users maillist  -  Mailman-Users at python.org
 >http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users




From barry at digicool.com  Sat Jun  9 18:54:08 2001
From: barry at digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2001 12:54:08 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] separate smtp server
References: <20010608143300.K309@zed.unbeat.com>
Message-ID: <15138.21680.422537.771536@anthem.wooz.org>

>>>>> "J" == JT  <luser at ahab.com> writes:

    J> And all of a sudden I'm not sure it's possible, although
    J> apparently it is possible, looking at this very list --
    J> mailman-users at python.org, mail.python.org, www.python.org!!!

Others have given good answers that seem to help your situation, but
I'll just mention that @python.org, we cheat a bit.  We ProxyPass all
Mailman (and Pipermail) traffic from www.python.org to
mail.python.org, so for us, the web server and mail server are
co-located.

-Barry



From ewilts at ewilts.org  Sun Jun 10 16:39:19 2001
From: ewilts at ewilts.org (Ed Wilts)
Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2001 09:39:19 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] message with id #9 was lost
Message-ID: <0106100939190V.24130@linux1.ewilts.org>

I'm trying to clean up after mailman after a message was lost.  I tried to 
reject this posting, but after this failed, it now seems to be stuck in a 
queue somewhere and is sending daily reminders asking me to approve/reject 
this posting.  I know the message is lost, but how can I get mailman to give 
up on it permanently?  This is mailman 2.0.1 as supplied by Redhat on RH 
Linux 7.1.

Thanks,
	.../Ed
-- 
Ed Wilts, Mounds View, MN, USA
mailto:ewilts at ewilts.org



From barry at digicool.com  Sun Jun 10 19:07:44 2001
From: barry at digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2001 13:07:44 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] message with id #9 was lost
References: <0106100939190V.24130@linux1.ewilts.org>
Message-ID: <15139.43360.577856.198631@anthem.wooz.org>

>>>>> "EW" == Ed Wilts <ewilts at ewilts.org> writes:

    EW> I'm trying to clean up after mailman after a message was lost.
    EW> I tried to reject this posting, but after this failed, it now
    EW> seems to be stuck in a queue somewhere and is sending daily
    EW> reminders asking me to approve/reject this posting.  I know
    EW> the message is lost, but how can I get mailman to give up on
    EW> it permanently?  This is mailman 2.0.1 as supplied by Redhat
    EW> on RH Linux 7.1.

Just visit the admindb page.  You should see a message something like

    "Message with id #xxx was lost."

and this held message will just get discarded.  However, if the
message isn't truly lost, there will be a file in $prefix/data with
a name like

    heldmsg-<listname>-<id>.txt

which contains the message being held.  If this file is there, then
Mailman should present it to you on the admindb page, and from there
you can reject, discard, etc. just as normal.  If you were to rm this
file, then you'd zap the database record by doing what's described
above.

Cheers,
-Barry



From joe at barrera.org  Sun Jun 10 21:49:42 2001
From: joe at barrera.org (Joseph S. Barrera III)
Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2001 12:49:42 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to silently, automatically reject ALL "implicit destination" messages?
Message-ID: <15139.53078.515000.346137@barrera.org>

I don't want to receive any notifications for "implicit destination"
messages, because they are always spam. I just want mailman to
silently flush them. How can I do this? I've looked through all the
settings, and the FAQ, and I haven't found a way.

Thanks,

- Joe




From bw99a at softcom.net  Mon Jun 11 05:58:58 2001
From: bw99a at softcom.net (Benjamin Winn)
Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2001 20:58:58 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailing List Hosting
Message-ID: <001501c0f22a$d8dd3da0$21deabd0@bw>

Hello,
I was wondering if anyone on this discussion list know of some mailing list
hosting places that use Mailman?  I'm hoping to host my newsletter, "The
Trekker Newsletter" somewhere now that the previous place I was hosting the
newsletter changed servers, thus no more Mailman.

If anyone has any ideas, please feel free to email me -
benjamin at treknewsletter.com

Thanks!

Sincerely,
Benjamin Winn

The Trekker Newsletter - http://www.treknewsletter.com/
mailto:ttn-request at treknewsletter.com?subject=Subscribe

District News - http://www.districtnews.net/




From enriko.groen at netivity.nl  Mon Jun 11 10:23:57 2001
From: enriko.groen at netivity.nl (Enriko Groen)
Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 10:23:57 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Announce Only Lists
Message-ID: <510EAC2065C0D311929200A0247252622F77D2@NETIVITY-FS>


-----Original Message-----
From: Enriko Groen 
Sent: Monday, June 11, 2001 10:16
To: 'JC Dill'
Subject: RE: [Mailman-Users] Announce Only Lists




> -----Original Message-----
> From: JC Dill [mailto:mailman at vo.cnchost.com]

> If you search the list archives (see URL below) for "announce 
> only" you 
> will find many posts and links to web FAQs that answer this 
> frequently 
> asked question.  The web FAQ is also referenced in the README.

Hmmm... because I was looking for this too I tried querying the archives.
However I didn't find any thing that really referenced a web FAQ.

The only thing I found was in the distribution FAQ:
http://www.aurora.edu/~ckolar/mailman/

Is this the page you referenced? I think it doesn't have a specific announce
only information.
--
Enriko Groen, Hosting manager
--------------------------------------------------------
netivity bv   www.netivity.nl   enriko.groen at netivity.nl
038 - 850 1000   van nagellstraat 4      8011 eb  zwolle
--------------------------------------------------------
 



From el_sandocan at yahoo.es  Mon Jun 11 10:26:03 2001
From: el_sandocan at yahoo.es (=?iso-8859-1?q?Alberto=20Perez?=)
Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 10:26:03 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] thanks!!
Message-ID: <20010611082603.97178.qmail@web13301.mail.yahoo.com>

thanks to all!!

That is what I needed!!

thanks!!!


_______________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Messenger: Comunicaci?n instant?nea gratis con tu gente -
http://messenger.yahoo.es



From detlef.neubauer at charite.de  Mon Jun 11 13:49:03 2001
From: detlef.neubauer at charite.de (Detlef Neubauer)
Date: 11 Jun 2001 13:49:03 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Announce Only Lists
In-Reply-To: Enriko Groen's message of "Mon, 11 Jun 2001 10:23:57 +0200"
References: <510EAC2065C0D311929200A0247252622F77D2@NETIVITY-FS>
Message-ID: <m3k82jqlsg.fsf@mailman.charite.de>

Enriko Groen <enriko.groen at netivity.nl> writes:

> Hmmm... because I was looking for this too I tried querying the archives.

http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2001-May/011410.html

 Gru? Detlef Neubauer

-- 
.oO GnuPG Key auf http://germany.keyserver.net/ Oo.



From enriko.groen at netivity.nl  Mon Jun 11 15:09:12 2001
From: enriko.groen at netivity.nl (Enriko Groen)
Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 15:09:12 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman sitepass
Message-ID: <510EAC2065C0D311929200A0247252622F77E4@NETIVITY-FS>

Hi

I'm still having difficulties to change the sitepassword for mailman.
All I get is a message "Password change failed". 
I already tried to set the rights of the password file to allow anyone to
read or write it, but it did not help.

I run Mailman 2.0.5 on a FreeBSD 4.2 machine.

Any suggestions?


--
Enriko Groen, Hosting manager
--------------------------------------------------------
netivity bv   www.netivity.nl   enriko.groen at netivity.nl
038 - 850 1000   van nagellstraat 4      8011 eb  zwolle
--------------------------------------------------------
 



From fil at rezo.net  Mon Jun 11 15:13:52 2001
From: fil at rezo.net (Fil)
Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 15:13:52 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman sitepass
In-Reply-To: <510EAC2065C0D311929200A0247252622F77E4@NETIVITY-FS>; from enriko.groen@netivity.nl on Mon, Jun 11, 2001 at 03:09:12PM +0200
References: <510EAC2065C0D311929200A0247252622F77E4@NETIVITY-FS>
Message-ID: <20010611151352.A4761@orwell.bok.net>

Try using the bin/mmsitepass script in your mailman account's shell. You
have to be user mailman for it to succeed.

@ Enriko Groen (enriko.groen at netivity.nl) :
> I'm still having difficulties to change the sitepassword for mailman.



From enriko.groen at netivity.nl  Mon Jun 11 15:19:38 2001
From: enriko.groen at netivity.nl (Enriko Groen)
Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 15:19:38 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman sitepass
Message-ID: <510EAC2065C0D311929200A0247252622F77E5@NETIVITY-FS>


> From: Fil [mailto:fil at rezo.net]
> 
> Try using the bin/mmsitepass script in your mailman account's 
> shell. You
> have to be user mailman for it to succeed.
> 
> @ Enriko Groen (enriko.groen at netivity.nl) :
> > I'm still having difficulties to change the sitepassword 
> for mailman.

I tried that before:
$ bin/mmsitepass
New Password:
Again to confirm password:
Password change failed. 

I just verified all settings with bin/check_perms and all is ok.
adm.pw is also owned by mailman

I quite confused...
--
Enriko Groen, Hosting manager
--------------------------------------------------------
netivity bv   www.netivity.nl   enriko.groen at netivity.nl
038 - 850 1000   van nagellstraat 4      8011 eb  zwolle
--------------------------------------------------------
 



From enriko.groen at netivity.nl  Mon Jun 11 15:40:09 2001
From: enriko.groen at netivity.nl (Enriko Groen)
Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 15:40:09 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman sitepass
Message-ID: <510EAC2065C0D311929200A0247252622F77E6@NETIVITY-FS>

> From: Enriko Groen 
> > Try using the bin/mmsitepass script in your mailman account's 
> > shell. You
> > have to be user mailman for it to succeed.
> > 
> > @ Enriko Groen (enriko.groen at netivity.nl) :
> > > I'm still having difficulties to change the sitepassword 
> > for mailman.
> 
> I tried that before:
> $ bin/mmsitepass
> New Password:
> Again to confirm password:
> Password change failed. 
> 
> I just verified all settings with bin/check_perms and all is ok.
> adm.pw is also owned by mailman

Also check this:
================================================
$ bin/mmsitepass
New Password:
Again to confirm password:
Password change failed.
$ cat data/adm.pw
$1$FI$4ajCrrR4WADe8XOcBYUp8/$ mmsitepass
mmsitepass: not found
$ bin/mmsitepass
New Password:
Again to confirm password:
Password change failed.
$ cat data/adm.pw
$1$CU$3hwEZaPPSDJOMx8Vv7TyS0
================================================

I entered the same password on both occasions, however the resulting strings
are completly different.
Shouldn't they both be the same?

I looks like there is something wrong with crypting... does anyone have a
direction in which to search.
I'm a complete Python nitwit.

--
Enriko Groen, Hosting manager
--------------------------------------------------------
netivity bv   www.netivity.nl   enriko.groen at netivity.nl
038 - 850 1000   van nagellstraat 4      8011 eb  zwolle
--------------------------------------------------------
 



From yaron at ort.edu.ar  Mon Jun 11 16:15:41 2001
From: yaron at ort.edu.ar (Yaron Zarfati)
Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 11:15:41 -0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] announce only list - no one has the right answer
Message-ID: <3B24A85D.11509.419B32@localhost>

sorry to continue with the same subject, but when asking about 
announce only lists, everyone is just sending urls to faqs, and 
those options doesn?t work.

I created a list called ?test?
list members, my address and other address of my domain

my privacy configuration is

 Must posts be approved by an administrator? No
 Restrict posting privilege to list members? No
 Addresses of members accepted for posting... yaron at ort.edu.ar
                                                                     other at ort.edu.ar

so, when I write from a hotmail account, I get a mail saying that the 
post was sent to a private list, and is waiting for approval...
why, if i set no admin approval and the hotmail account is not in 
the accepted members... ???

please answer this only if you *really* have solved it

thanks in advance !





From esper at sherohman.org  Mon Jun 11 16:35:55 2001
From: esper at sherohman.org (Dave Sherohman)
Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 09:35:55 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] QUESTION
In-Reply-To: <p05001909b74177975696@[138.88.66.186]>; from beth@cedc.org on Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 01:40:13PM -0400
References: <p05001909b74177975696@[138.88.66.186]>
Message-ID: <20010611093555.E31224@sherohman.org>

On Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 01:40:13PM -0400, Beth Ponticello wrote:
> my question is whether the administration features are web based such 
> as configuring a new list?

Mailman does not allow new lists to be created through a web interface
(though you could probably add that pretty easily if you know Python), but
full web-based administration of existing lists is available.

-- 
That's not gibberish...  It's Linux. - Byers, The Lone Gunmen
Geek Code 3.12:  GCS d? s+: a C++ UL++++$ P++>+++ L+++>++++ E- W--(++) N+
o+ !K w--- O M- V? PS+ PE Y+ PGP t 5++ X+ R++ tv+ b+ DI++++ D G e* h r y+



From enriko.groen at netivity.nl  Mon Jun 11 16:36:45 2001
From: enriko.groen at netivity.nl (Enriko Groen)
Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 16:36:45 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] announce only list - no one has the right ans
	wer
Message-ID: <510EAC2065C0D311929200A0247252622F77E8@NETIVITY-FS>


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Yaron Zarfati [mailto:yaron at ort.edu.ar]

> so, when I write from a hotmail account, I get a mail saying that the 
> post was sent to a private list, and is waiting for approval...
> why, if i set no admin approval and the hotmail account is not in 
> the accepted members... ???
> 
> please answer this only if you *really* have solved it

There probably is no way to solve this... at this moment...
The awaiting approval is not an option, it's standard behaviour.

I suppose you have to wait for a new version of Mailman (which I understand
will have this option), change it yourself or move to another mailinglist
manager.
I think Mailman was originally built with a mailinglist in mind and not an
announcement list with hunderds, thousands or more of subscribers.

--
Enriko Groen, Hosting manager
--------------------------------------------------------
netivity bv   www.netivity.nl   enriko.groen at netivity.nl
038 - 850 1000   van nagellstraat 4      8011 eb  zwolle
--------------------------------------------------------
 



From esper at sherohman.org  Mon Jun 11 16:49:10 2001
From: esper at sherohman.org (Dave Sherohman)
Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 09:49:10 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] timed delivery
In-Reply-To: <E157Snf-0001E0-00@mail.python.org>; from lindenmc@iquest.net on Tue, Jun 05, 2001 at 10:11:59PM -0400
References: <E157Snf-0001E0-00@mail.python.org>
Message-ID: <20010611094910.F31224@sherohman.org>

On Tue, Jun 05, 2001 at 10:11:59PM -0400, Dennis J. McCombs wrote:
> I am developing a web site that will require daily e-mail to my 
> subscribers.  I would like to write several mailings and 
> program each one to be mailed at a certain date in the future.  Is 
> there a format that can schedule future delivery?

I doubt that this can be done within Mailman or your MTA, but, in the grand
unix tradition of splitting tasks up among little tools that each do one
thing well, allow me to suggest... cron and at.

at is good for a one-time mailing, while cron is designed to to the same
thing at the same time every day.  Either way, the simplest case (to explain,
anyhow) would be to put the text of your message into a file and then have
at/cron run the command

/usr/bin/mail list-address at mail.host.org -s "Message subject" < /path/to/message.txt

See man cron, man crontab, man 5 crontab, and man at for information on how
cron and at work if you're not familiar with them.

-- 
That's not gibberish...  It's Linux. - Byers, The Lone Gunmen
Geek Code 3.12:  GCS d? s+: a C++ UL++++$ P++>+++ L+++>++++ E- W--(++) N+
o+ !K w--- O M- V? PS+ PE Y+ PGP t 5++ X+ R++ tv+ b+ DI++++ D G e* h r y+



From detlef.neubauer at charite.de  Mon Jun 11 16:58:21 2001
From: detlef.neubauer at charite.de (Detlef Neubauer)
Date: 11 Jun 2001 16:58:21 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] announce only list - no one has the right answer
In-Reply-To: "Yaron Zarfati"'s message of "Mon, 11 Jun 2001 11:15:41 -0300"
References: <3B24A85D.11509.419B32@localhost>
Message-ID: <m3iti3oygi.fsf@mailman.charite.de>

"Yaron Zarfati" <yaron at ort.edu.ar> writes:

> sorry to continue with the same subject, but when asking about 
> announce only lists, everyone is just sending urls to faqs, and 
> those options doesn?t work.

It works fine.

> I created a list called ?test?
> list members, my address and other address of my domain
> 
> my privacy configuration is
> 
>  Must posts be approved by an administrator? No
>  Restrict posting privilege to list members? No
>  Addresses of members accepted for posting... yaron at ort.edu.ar
>                                                                      other at ort.edu.ar

If you use the "Adresses of member" option, the "Must be approved .."
option have no effect.


> so, when I write from a hotmail account, I get a mail saying that the 
> post was sent to a private list, and is waiting for approval...
> why, if i set no admin approval and the hotmail account is not in 
> the accepted members... ???
> 
> please answer this only if you *really* have solved it

,----[ Detail from "Adresses of member .." option ]
| posters (privacy): Addresses of members accepted for posting to this
| list without implicit approval requirement. (See "Restrict ... to list
| members" for whether or not this is in addition to allowing posting by
| list members
| 
| Adding entries here will have one of two effects, according to whether
| another option restricts posting to members.
| 
| If member_posting_only is 'yes', then entries added here will have
| posting privilege in addition to list members.
| 
| If member_posting_only is 'no', then only the posters listed here will
| be able to post without admin approval.
`----

 Gru? Detlef Neubauer

-- 
.oO GnuPG (PGP) Key auf http://germany.keyserver.net/ Oo.



From esper at sherohman.org  Mon Jun 11 17:16:26 2001
From: esper at sherohman.org (Dave Sherohman)
Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 10:16:26 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman sitepass
In-Reply-To: <510EAC2065C0D311929200A0247252622F77E6@NETIVITY-FS>; from enriko.groen@netivity.nl on Mon, Jun 11, 2001 at 03:40:09PM +0200
References: <510EAC2065C0D311929200A0247252622F77E6@NETIVITY-FS>
Message-ID: <20010611101626.C31829@sherohman.org>

On Mon, Jun 11, 2001 at 03:40:09PM +0200, Enriko Groen wrote:
> $1$FI$4ajCrrR4WADe8XOcBYUp8/$ mmsitepass

> $1$CU$3hwEZaPPSDJOMx8Vv7TyS0

> I entered the same password on both occasions, however the resulting strings
> are completly different.
> Shouldn't they both be the same?
> 
> I looks like there is something wrong with crypting... does anyone have a
> direction in which to search.
> I'm a complete Python nitwit.

This is actually a unix detail rather than anything related to mailman or
python.

In unix systems (and probably others), it's standard practice to feed a
two-character "salt" value to the hashing code along with the data (password)
to be encoded.  In the cases you gave us earlier, the salt values are "FI"
and "CU".

So, why use salt if it's given to you right there in the clear?  Two reasons:

1)  As you discovered, the same password encoded twice gives different
results because the salt is different.  This prevents you from looking at a
file of encoded passwords, noticing that Joe's password is the same as yours,
and logging in as him.

2)  It makes dictionary attacks more time-consuming because each word being
tested has to be encoded separately for each salt value present instead of
just doing it once and checking against all passwords in the file.

-- 
That's not gibberish...  It's Linux. - Byers, The Lone Gunmen
Geek Code 3.12:  GCS d? s+: a C++ UL++++$ P++>+++ L+++>++++ E- W--(++) N+
o+ !K w--- O M- V? PS+ PE Y+ PGP t 5++ X+ R++ tv+ b+ DI++++ D G e* h r y+



From barry at digicool.com  Mon Jun 11 17:13:59 2001
From: barry at digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 11:13:59 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Need mail merge capability
References: <F9060760545DD21189D200A0C9E922C7016FF105@exchange.indexstock.com>
	<991730834.5891.2.camel@gaspode.localnet>
	<200106051225.f55CPvB12282@quill>
	<15134.42997.273307.167273@anthem.wooz.org>
	<200106071141.f57Bffg25316@quill>
Message-ID: <15140.57399.627583.984597@anthem.wooz.org>

>>>>> "NB" == Norbert Bollow <nb at thinkcoach.com> writes:

    NB> VERP means "variable envelope return path", which is useful
    NB> for reliable bounce-handling.  It is not the same thing as
    NB> including the recipient email address in the message header or
    NB> body.

Thanks for the clarification.  I was thinking of a VERP-like feature
where the MTA does some specializations of the message on a
per-recipient basis.  I've reworded the FAQ entry to not be misleading.

    NB> If you like I can put up a webpage which explains how to set
    NB> this so up that you can do something like Neil Cooler wants,
    NB> who wrote:

That would be cool.  Send me a link and I'll add it to the FAQ.

Cheers,
-Barry



From barry at digicool.com  Mon Jun 11 17:15:45 2001
From: barry at digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 11:15:45 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to silently, automatically reject ALL "implicit destination" messages?
References: <15139.53078.515000.346137@barrera.org>
Message-ID: <15140.57505.89497.903708@anthem.wooz.org>

>>>>> "JSBI" == Joseph S Barrera, III <joe at barrera.org> writes:

    JSBI> I don't want to receive any notifications for "implicit
    JSBI> destination" messages, because they are always spam. I just
    JSBI> want mailman to silently flush them. How can I do this? I've
    JSBI> looked through all the settings, and the FAQ, and I haven't
    JSBI> found a way.

You can't with MM2.0.x.  I plan to add this feature to MM2.1 but
haven't yet.

-Barry



From barry at digicool.com  Mon Jun 11 17:21:00 2001
From: barry at digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 11:21:00 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman sitepass
References: <510EAC2065C0D311929200A0247252622F77E6@NETIVITY-FS>
	<20010611101626.C31829@sherohman.org>
Message-ID: <15140.57820.726294.149279@anthem.wooz.org>

The problem could be with Python's crypt module, which depending on
the platform and the way Python was built on it, may not exist or may
be broken.

Note that MM2.1 uses SHA1 for all hashing, as this has proven to be
the most reliable (and the most reliably extant).

My suggestion for you is to set USE_CRYPT=0 in your mm_cfg.py file.
That will force MM2.0.x to use md5 instead of crypt.  However, be
aware that this may break any existing list admin passwords.  Once you
have your site password working, you can use it to go back and reset
all your list admin passwords.

-Barry



From barry at digicool.com  Mon Jun 11 17:22:10 2001
From: barry at digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 11:22:10 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] QUESTION
References: <p05001909b74177975696@[138.88.66.186]>
	<20010611093555.E31224@sherohman.org>
Message-ID: <15140.57890.567643.980844@anthem.wooz.org>

>>>>> "DS" == Dave Sherohman <esper at sherohman.org> writes:

    DS> Mailman does not allow new lists to be created through a web
    DS> interface (though you could probably add that pretty easily if
    DS> you know Python), but full web-based administration of
    DS> existing lists is available.

The current CVS snapshot of MM2.1 has thru-the-web list creation and
deletion.

-Barry



From mike at mgdesign.net  Mon Jun 11 18:17:49 2001
From: mike at mgdesign.net (Mike T. Gholson)
Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 09:17:49 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Filtering HTML & RICH
Message-ID: <6A36A4FF313F4D459920D206EDF68BC7032316@naboo.mgdesign.net>

Greetings,

A couple of questions related to filtering.

1) Is there a way to dis-allow the use of HTML & RICH text
formatted messages?  I'm hosting a list and the majority of
my users do NOT want to see HTML or RICH text formatted
messages.  If a user sends a message in either format, it's
currently going through.  I'd like to bounce those type of
messages.

2) Now, after the message bounces, I was wondering if there
was an easy way to configure mailman to send them information
about HOW to format the message correctly (or at least a better
description as to WHY it bounced)?....

TIA

[m]



From joe at barrera.org  Mon Jun 11 18:19:27 2001
From: joe at barrera.org (Joseph S. Barrera III)
Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 09:19:27 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to silently, automatically reject ALL "implicit destination" messages?
In-Reply-To: <15140.57505.89497.903708@anthem.wooz.org>
References: <15139.53078.515000.346137@barrera.org>
	<15140.57505.89497.903708@anthem.wooz.org>
Message-ID: <15140.61327.933000.928364@barrera.org>

Also sprach Barry A. Warsaw:
> You can't with MM2.0.x.

Ok.

> I plan to add this feature to MM2.1 but haven't yet.

Cool. Thanks!

- Joe




From rogerk at QueerNet.ORG  Mon Jun 11 18:25:22 2001
From: rogerk at QueerNet.ORG (Roger B.A. Klorese)
Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 09:25:22 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to silently, automatically reject ALL
 "implicit destination" messages?
In-Reply-To: <15140.61327.933000.928364@barrera.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSI.4.32.0106110925090.1901-100000@castro.queernet.org>

On Mon, 11 Jun 2001, Joseph S. Barrera III wrote:

> Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 09:19:27 -0700
> From: Joseph S. Barrera III <joe at barrera.org>
> To: Barry A. Warsaw <barry at digicool.com>
> Cc: mailman-users at python.org
> Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] How to silently,
>      automatically reject ALL "implicit destination" messages?
>
> Also sprach Barry A. Warsaw:
> > You can't with MM2.0.x.
>
> Ok.
>
> > I plan to add this feature to MM2.1 but haven't yet.
>
> Cool. Thanks!
>
> - Joe
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users maillist  -  Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
>

-- 
ROGER B.A. KLORESE                                          rogerk at QueerNet.ORG
PO Box 14309		                                San Francisco, CA 94114
"Go without hate. But not without rage. Heal the world."        -- Paul Monette




From rogerk at QueerNet.ORG  Mon Jun 11 18:28:13 2001
From: rogerk at QueerNet.ORG (Roger B.A. Klorese)
Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 09:28:13 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to silently, automatically reject ALL
 "implicit destination" messages?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSI.4.32.0106110925090.1901-100000@castro.queernet.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSI.4.32.0106110927470.1901-100000@castro.queernet.org>

On Mon, 11 Jun 2001, Roger B.A. Klorese wrote:
...nothing new.

Sorry, folks, meant to hit "cancel" instead of "send."
-- 
ROGER B.A. KLORESE                                          rogerk at QueerNet.ORG
PO Box 14309		                                San Francisco, CA 94114
"Go without hate. But not without rage. Heal the world."        -- Paul Monette




From joe at barrera.org  Mon Jun 11 18:27:58 2001
From: joe at barrera.org (Joseph S. Barrera III)
Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 09:27:58 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to silently, automatically reject ALL
 "implicit destination" messages?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSI.4.32.0106110927470.1901-100000@castro.queernet.org>
References: <Pine.BSI.4.32.0106110925090.1901-100000@castro.queernet.org>
	<Pine.BSI.4.32.0106110927470.1901-100000@castro.queernet.org>
Message-ID: <15140.61838.207000.627994@barrera.org>

Also sprach Roger B.A. Klorese:
> On Mon, 11 Jun 2001, Roger B.A. Klorese wrote:
> ...nothing new.
> 
> Sorry, folks, meant to hit "cancel" instead of "send."

My next question: How to silently, automatically reject ALL messages
send by accident?

:-) :-) :-)

- Joe




From dairiki at dairiki.org  Mon Jun 11 18:46:03 2001
From: dairiki at dairiki.org (Jeff Dairiki)
Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 09:46:03 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Filtering HTML & RICH 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 11 Jun 2001 09:17:49 PDT."
             <6A36A4FF313F4D459920D206EDF68BC7032316@naboo.mgdesign.net> 
Message-ID: <200106111646.f5BGk4631572@matthews.dairiki.org>

>1) Is there a way to dis-allow the use of HTML & RICH text
>formatted messages?

Not exactly what you asked for, but I've written patches for mailman-2.0.5,
which can force (configurable on a per-list basis) all posts to plain text.
Basically, it converts HTML and text/{enriched,richtext} to plain text,
and strips binary attachments.

You can find the patches at:
 http://sf.net/tracker/?func=detail&aid=413752&group_id=103&atid=300103

Jeff




From alex at phred.org  Mon Jun 11 18:45:57 2001
From: alex at phred.org (alex wetmore)
Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 09:45:57 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Filtering HTML & RICH
In-Reply-To: <6A36A4FF313F4D459920D206EDF68BC7032316@naboo.mgdesign.net>
Message-ID: <20010611094309.W50482-100000@phred.org>

On Mon, 11 Jun 2001, Mike T. Gholson wrote:
> A couple of questions related to filtering.
>
> 1) Is there a way to dis-allow the use of HTML & RICH text
> formatted messages?  I'm hosting a list and the majority of
> my users do NOT want to see HTML or RICH text formatted
> messages.  If a user sends a message in either format, it's
> currently going through.  I'd like to bounce those type of
> messages.
>
> 2) Now, after the message bounces, I was wondering if there
> was an easy way to configure mailman to send them information
> about HOW to format the message correctly (or at least a better
> description as to WHY it bounced)?....

Most people handle this issue by using demime, stripmime, or a
similar tool which down-converts the email to rich text.  This
is the easiest option for most users to understand.

If you search the archives you'll find tons of information on this.
Stripmime can be found at http://www.phred.org/~alex/stripmime.html.
Demime can be found at http://scifi.squawk.com/demime.html.

It sounds like Mailman 2.1 might have this functionality built
in.

alex





From Randy.Galbraith at pegs.com  Mon Jun 11 18:49:44 2001
From: Randy.Galbraith at pegs.com (Galbraith, Randy)
Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 09:49:44 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] From address on subscribe
Message-ID: <8263D1EC0981D411981300B0D020E6FAFCFABC@pheexh02.pegs.com>

>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Galbraith, Randy [mailto:Randy.Galbraith at pegs.com]
>>> Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2001 01:49
>>> To: 'mailman-users at python.org'
>>> Subject: [Mailman-Users] From address on subscribe
>>> 
>>> 
>>> All,
>>> 
>>> I've installed and set up Mailman 2.0.5.  Everything works 
>>> except one small
>>> snag.  When a user subscribes to one of my lists the "from" 
>>> address is set
>>> to...
>>> 
>>>   test2-request at pegs.com
>>> 
>>> This won't work for me, instead I need it to read...
>>> 
>>>   test2-request at daffy.pegs.com
>>
>>Change the "hostname this site preferes" setting in the list
administration
>>pages to daffy.pegs.com
>>
>>--
>>Enriko Groen, Hosting manager
>>--------------------------------------------------------
>>netivity bv   www.netivity.nl   enriko.groen at netivity.nl
>>038 - 850 1000   van nagellstraat 4      8011 eb  zwolle
>>--------------------------------------------------------
> 
>Enriko,
>
>That was one of the first things I tried, but it doesn't seem to help.  Any
>other ideas?  Thanks for your reply nonetheless.
>
>-Randy Galbraith

Enriko,

After going through the Python modules step-by-step I confirmed your
response was absolutely correct.  Nonetheless my problem remained.  The
source of the problem?  It turns out our sys admin folks look for stuff like
this, and automatically remove the host name portion.  They then run an
alias file that redirects traffic to the correct host on the inbound side.
This setup of course hides host names from the outside world and in the
process allows us to move services from one host to the other without
impacting clients using those services.

The lesson learned: Don't automatically blame the new software -- it may be
a system config issue.  Thanks again for your reply.

-Randy Galbraith




From mike at mgdesign.net  Mon Jun 11 18:55:57 2001
From: mike at mgdesign.net (Mike T. Gholson)
Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 09:55:57 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Filtering HTML & RICH
Message-ID: <6A36A4FF313F4D459920D206EDF68BC7032319@naboo.mgdesign.net>

Is that last part true?  How do I find out?


-----Original Message-----
From: alex wetmore

It sounds like Mailman 2.1 might have this functionality built
in.

alex





From satyap at satya.virtualave.net  Mon Jun 11 19:08:29 2001
From: satyap at satya.virtualave.net (Satya)
Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 22:38:29 +0530 (IST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to silently, automatically reject ALL
 "implicit destination" messages?
In-Reply-To: <15140.61838.207000.627994@barrera.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0106112236540.3152-100000@hal9k.myip.org>

On Jun 11, 2001 at 09:27, Joseph S. Barrera III wrote:

>My next question: How to silently, automatically reject ALL messages
>send by accident?

First, you build a mind-reader...

>:-) :-) :-)

Me too.

Seriously, you could go with the Usenet convention of rejecting
messages based on ratio of quoted text to new text, with the problems
that *that* brings. I know the problems. Don't tell me.

-- 
Satya. <URL:http://satya.virtualave.net/>
US-bound grad students! For pre-apps, see <URL:http://quickapps.cjb.net/>
Don't use a big word where a diminutive one will suffice.




From claw at kanga.nu  Mon Jun 11 19:19:25 2001
From: claw at kanga.nu (J C Lawrence)
Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 10:19:25 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Filtering HTML & RICH 
In-Reply-To: Message from "Mike T. Gholson" <mike@mgdesign.net> 
   of "Mon, 11 Jun 2001 09:17:49 PDT." <6A36A4FF313F4D459920D206EDF68BC7032316@naboo.mgdesign.net> 
References: <6A36A4FF313F4D459920D206EDF68BC7032316@naboo.mgdesign.net> 
Message-ID: <27000.992279965@kanga.nu>

On Mon, 11 Jun 2001 09:17:49 -0700 
Mike T Gholson <mike at mgdesign.net> wrote:

> Greetings, A couple of questions related to filtering.

> 1) Is there a way to dis-allow the use of HTML & RICH text
> formatted messages?  I'm hosting a list and the majority of my
> users do NOT want to see HTML or RICH text formatted messages.  If
> a user sends a message in either format, it's currently going
> through.  I'd like to bounce those type of messages.

Use one of the MIME strippers such as demime, strpmime, mimefilter
in front of your Mailman aliases.

Barry:  Is this in the FAQ yet?

> 2) Now, after the message bounces, I was wondering if there was an
> easy way to configure mailman to send them information about HOW
> to format the message correctly (or at least a better description
> as to WHY it bounced)?....

Its kind of difficult to send successfully mail to someone whose
mail is bouncing.

-- 
J C Lawrence                                       claw at kanga.nu
---------(*)                          http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/
The pressure to survive and rhetoric may make strange bedfellows



From claw at kanga.nu  Mon Jun 11 19:21:14 2001
From: claw at kanga.nu (J C Lawrence)
Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 10:21:14 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to silently, automatically reject ALL "implicit destination" messages? 
In-Reply-To: Message from "Joseph S. Barrera III" <joe@barrera.org> 
   of "Mon, 11 Jun 2001 09:27:58 PDT." <15140.61838.207000.627994@barrera.org> 
References: <Pine.BSI.4.32.0106110925090.1901-100000@castro.queernet.org> <Pine.BSI.4.32.0106110927470.1901-100000@castro.queernet.org>  <15140.61838.207000.627994@barrera.org> 
Message-ID: <30346.992280074@kanga.nu>

On Mon, 11 Jun 2001 09:27:58 -0700 
Joseph S Barrera, <Joseph> wrote:

> Also sprach Roger B.A. Klorese:
>> On Mon, 11 Jun 2001, Roger B.A. Klorese wrote: ...nothing new.
>> 
>> Sorry, folks, meant to hit "cancel" instead of "send."

> My next question: How to silently, automatically reject ALL
> messages send by accident?

# /etc/init.d/sendmail stop

> :-) :-) :-)

Oops.

-- 
J C Lawrence                                       claw at kanga.nu
---------(*)                          http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/
The pressure to survive and rhetoric may make strange bedfellows



From claw at kanga.nu  Mon Jun 11 19:22:33 2001
From: claw at kanga.nu (J C Lawrence)
Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 10:22:33 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Filtering HTML & RICH 
In-Reply-To: Message from "Mike T. Gholson" <mike@mgdesign.net> 
   of "Mon, 11 Jun 2001 09:55:57 PDT." <6A36A4FF313F4D459920D206EDF68BC7032319@naboo.mgdesign.net> 
References: <6A36A4FF313F4D459920D206EDF68BC7032319@naboo.mgdesign.net> 
Message-ID: <350.992280153@kanga.nu>

On Mon, 11 Jun 2001 09:55:57 -0700 
Mike T Gholson <mike at mgdesign.net> wrote:

> Is that last part true?  

Yes.

> How do I find out?

See the CVS repository.

-- 
J C Lawrence                                       claw at kanga.nu
---------(*)                          http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/
The pressure to survive and rhetoric may make strange bedfellows



From hawk at osos.fime.uanl.mx  Mon Jun 11 19:12:05 2001
From: hawk at osos.fime.uanl.mx (David Ramirez Joya)
Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 12:12:05 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Greetings to all, A problem configuring apache...
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.1010611120107.1309B-100000@osos.fime.uanl.mx>

Againg greetings to all, I have a little problem with mailman. The
explanation of the problem is:

I wanted to use gnu mailman. So downloaded it, read the INSTALL, I
compiled it. configured the sendmail, checked all the configuration
instructions of apache, but when I try to check my recentrly added list by
using the url:

my.domain.org/mailman/listinfo/my_list

I receive from the apache server, the listing of the program listinfo, I
checked if the execution of CGI is allowed, so, I used a simple cgi
program to check if the directory is allowed to execute cgi, and the
simple program worked so that's not the problem. But as I said when I try
to execute the url, I see the program as if I check it with the
command cat...

By the way, if I create a new list, That directory is created or it's just
the executon parameter of the program listinfo?

Does anybody here know how to solve this problem...

any help would be really appreciated.

Best regards,

David Ramirez Joya
--
=====================================================================
	David Ramirez Joya		Depto. de Informatica
	  System Manager		Servicios de Internet
 	  Servidor Osos			FIME -- UANL
     dramirez at gama.fime.uanl.mx		Tel.: 83 29 40 20 Ext. 5721




From barry at digicool.com  Mon Jun 11 19:42:08 2001
From: barry at digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 13:42:08 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Filtering HTML & RICH
References: <6A36A4FF313F4D459920D206EDF68BC7032316@naboo.mgdesign.net>
	<20010611094309.W50482-100000@phred.org>
Message-ID: <15141.752.841476.383208@anthem.wooz.org>

>>>>> "aw" == alex wetmore <alex at phred.org> writes:

    aw> Most people handle this issue by using demime, stripmime, or a
    aw> similar tool which down-converts the email to rich text.  This
    aw> is the easiest option for most users to understand.

    aw> If you search the archives you'll find tons of information on
    aw> this.  Stripmime can be found at
    aw> http://www.phred.org/~alex/stripmime.html.  Demime can be
    aw> found at http://scifi.squawk.com/demime.html.

    aw> It sounds like Mailman 2.1 might have this functionality built
    aw> in.

Not yet, but I plan to add it.

All, also add a FAQ entry about demime, et al, as a solution for MM2.0.x.

-Barry



From chuqui at plaidworks.com  Mon Jun 11 21:08:11 2001
From: chuqui at plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach)
Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 12:08:11 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to silently, automatically reject ALL "implicit destination" messages?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0106112236540.3152-100000@hal9k.myip.org>
Message-ID: <200106111900.f5BJ05h29222@plaidworks.com>

On Monday, June 11, 2001, at 10:08 AM, Satya wrote:

> Seriously, you could go with the Usenet convention of rejecting
> messages based on ratio of quoted text to new text, with the problems
> that *that* brings. I know the problems. Don't tell me.
>

don't. Don't. don't even.

As one of the people who came up with that idea, many, many years ago, 
it was an absolute, abject failure.

If you want to do something like this, you have to be smart about it. 
One is to be sensitive to message length (it IS likely that a one line 
response to a ten line message is legitimate, for instance, but a 10 
line response to a 100 line inclusion is a lot more likely to be bogus).

The other, though is to be sensitive to whether or not the person edited 
the message or not. What I prefer to do these days is look for an 
included footer, as an indicator that they just left the entire stupid 
message in the reply. If that exists, bounce it. If not, assume they did 
edit it enough, and even if you don't agree iwth how they edited it, 
don't worry about it and leave it alone.


--
Chuq Von Rospach, Internet Gnome <http://www.chuqui.com>
[<chuqui at plaidworks.com> = <me at chuqui.com> = <chuq at apple.com>]
Yes, yes, I've finally finished my home page. Lucky you.

I'm really easy to get along with once you
people learn to worship me.




From yaron at ort.edu.ar  Mon Jun 11 22:06:50 2001
From: yaron at ort.edu.ar (Yaron Zarfati)
Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 17:06:50 -0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] getting announce only lists to work !
Message-ID: <3B24FAAA.16821.1832449@localhost>

ok, i?m getting a workaround to the ?announce only lists?
u need two things:
1) not allowing anyone to post
2) insert a header ?Approved: <listpassword>? in the mail
(thanks to barry !)

i?ve already tested item 2, but don?t know how to configure item 1.

any help anyone ?

thanks !




From andreas at conectiva.com.br  Mon Jun 11 23:28:08 2001
From: andreas at conectiva.com.br (Andreas Hasenack)
Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 18:28:08 -0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Adding comments to approved email in moderated list
Message-ID: <20010611182808.C961@conectiva.com.br>

Is it possible to add comments to an email and then approve it?
For example:


[mod_note]: http://foo.bar/bla also has interesting things
on this topic

------

Hi, have you guys seen this? http://bla.bla/bla?





From mike at mgdesign.net  Mon Jun 11 23:50:47 2001
From: mike at mgdesign.net (Mike T. Gholson)
Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 14:50:47 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Filtering HTML & RICH 
Message-ID: <6A36A4FF313F4D459920D206EDF68BC703231A@naboo.mgdesign.net>

JC,  in this scenario... THEIR mail isn't bouncing.  My server would
bounce the mail back to their account because of the formatting (HTML
or RICH).  But, I would also like to send them a 'warning' or
explanation
as to why it bounced and how to fix it.

It's also letting them know that their post DID NOT go to the list.



-----Original Message-----
From: J C Lawrence [mailto:claw at kanga.nu]
>
> 2) Now, after the message bounces, I was wondering if there was an
> easy way to configure mailman to send them information about HOW
> to format the message correctly (or at least a better description
> as to WHY it bounced)?....

Its kind of difficult to send successfully mail to someone whose
mail is bouncing.



From irata2600 at yahoo.com  Tue Jun 12 01:16:15 2001
From: irata2600 at yahoo.com (irata)
Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 16:16:15 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Strange mime behavior
Message-ID: <20010611231615.72068.qmail@web12606.mail.yahoo.com>

Ok, I'm running mailman 2.0.5 and am having problems. 
I am intermittently able to send HTML (regular) (not
digest) to members of my list.  Most of the time,
however, HTML is stripped to plain text.  Is this a
known bug?  Preferably I will want to be able to send
out both depending on how ones membership field is
checked (plain or mime) <-- does this only apply to
digest mode?

so very confused.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 
a year!  http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/



From fmaquiaveli at uol.com.br  Tue Jun 12 11:55:46 2001
From: fmaquiaveli at uol.com.br (Fernando Maquiaveli)
Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 06:55:46 -0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Reoganizing archives
Message-ID: <NEBBJOEKLKCMJKNPKNCFIEFNCMAA.fmaquiaveli@uol.com.br>

Hi

	I'm using Mailman to share informations in my office.
	The archived message are grouped monthly and now I want to reorganize
messages between January and May in only one archive and the new messages
organized at each 3 months.
	I would very please if someone help me.
	Tank you very much and sorry about my english.

Fernando Maquiaveli
Ativa S/A Corretora de t?tulos e valores
Email: fmaquiaveli at ativactv.com.br
Fone: 55 11 3168-5088
Fax:  55 11 3168-4001




From y.nugroho at student.umist.ac.uk  Tue Jun 12 14:14:07 2001
From: y.nugroho at student.umist.ac.uk (Yanuar Nugroho)
Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 13:14:07 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] anonymous milist
Message-ID: <059801c0f339$2dd827c0$1fa95882@halls.umist.ac.uk>

Does Mailman support anonymity (anonymous list) which basically is done by
hiding the identity of the sender so that the recipients would not
acknowledge the sender?

Yanuar




From yaron at ort.edu.ar  Tue Jun 12 14:36:44 2001
From: yaron at ort.edu.ar (Yaron Zarfati)
Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 09:36:44 -0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] anonymous milist
In-Reply-To: <059801c0f339$2dd827c0$1fa95882@halls.umist.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <3B25E2AC.19530.50D8D67@localhost>

the last item in ?Privacy? is
- Hide the sender of a message, replacing it with the list address 
set it to ?yes?

> Does Mailman support anonymity (anonymous list) which basically is
> done by hiding the identity of the sender so that the recipients would
> not acknowledge the sender?
> 
> Yanuar





From detlef.neubauer at charite.de  Tue Jun 12 14:48:50 2001
From: detlef.neubauer at charite.de (Detlef Neubauer)
Date: 12 Jun 2001 14:48:50 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] anonymous milist
In-Reply-To: "Yanuar Nugroho"'s message of "Tue, 12 Jun 2001 13:14:07 +0100"
References: <059801c0f339$2dd827c0$1fa95882@halls.umist.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <m3g0d53lu5.fsf@mailman.charite.de>

"Yanuar Nugroho" <y.nugroho at student.umist.ac.uk> writes:

> Does Mailman support anonymity (anonymous list) which basically is done by
> hiding the identity of the sender so that the recipients would not
> acknowledge the sender?


,----[ Privacy Options ]
| anonymous_list (privacy): Hide the sender of a message, replacing it
| with the list address (Removes From, Sender and Reply-To fields)
| [ ] No  [ ] Yes
`----

Gru?
Detlef Neubauer

-- 
.oO GnuPG (PGP) Key auf http://germany.keyserver.net/ Oo.



From rick at niof.net  Tue Jun 12 15:11:30 2001
From: rick at niof.net (Rick Pasotto)
Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 09:11:30 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Filtering HTML & RICH
In-Reply-To: <20010611094309.W50482-100000@phred.org>
Message-ID: <20010612091130.A23057@tc.niof.net>

On Mon, Jun 11, 2001 at 09:45:57AM -0700, alex wetmore wrote:
> 
> Most people handle this issue by using demime, stripmime, or a
> similar tool which down-converts the email to rich text.  This
> is the easiest option for most users to understand.
> 
> If you search the archives you'll find tons of information on this.
> Stripmime can be found at http://www.phred.org/~alex/stripmime.html.
> Demime can be found at http://scifi.squawk.com/demime.html.

I finally got around to installing stripmime but I evidently have
something wrong. This is the error message I get:

2001-06-12 08:49:57 159ncK-0005vW-00 **
|/usr/local/bin/stripmime.pl|/var/lib/mailman/mail/wrapper post lp-meck
<lp-meck at niof.net> D=system_aliases T=address_pipe: Child process of
address_pipe transport returned 69 (could mean service or program
unavailable) from command:
/usr/local/bin/stripmime.pl|/var/lib/mailman/mail/wrapper

It works from the command line using stdin on an html message. Why is
exim having a problem? Is exim's environment different?

-- 
Property is prior to law; the sole function of the law is to
safeguard the right to property wherever it exists, wherever it is
formed, in whatever manner the worker produces it, whether
individually or in association, provided that he respects the
rights of others.
	-- Fr?d?ric Bastiat (1801-1850)
    Rick Pasotto    rickp at telocity.com    http://www.niof.net



From Nigel.Metheringham at InTechnology.co.uk  Tue Jun 12 15:58:04 2001
From: Nigel.Metheringham at InTechnology.co.uk (Nigel Metheringham)
Date: 12 Jun 2001 14:58:04 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Filtering HTML & RICH
In-Reply-To: <20010612091130.A23057@tc.niof.net>
References: <20010612091130.A23057@tc.niof.net>
Message-ID: <992354289.10273.8.camel@gaspode.localnet>

On 12 Jun 2001 09:11:30 -0400, Rick Pasotto wrote:
> I finally got around to installing stripmime but I evidently have
> something wrong. This is the error message I get:
> 
> 2001-06-12 08:49:57 159ncK-0005vW-00 **
> |/usr/local/bin/stripmime.pl|/var/lib/mailman/mail/wrapper post lp-meck
> <lp-meck at niof.net> D=system_aliases T=address_pipe: Child process of
> address_pipe transport returned 69 (could mean service or program
> unavailable) from command:
> /usr/local/bin/stripmime.pl|/var/lib/mailman/mail/wrapper
> 
> It works from the command line using stdin on an html message. Why is
> exim having a problem? Is exim's environment different?

Exim normally does not use a shell on its pipe transport - this is a
good thing(tm) - but in this case means that you are either getting
stripmime invoked with |/var... as the parameter, or (more likely from
the error you give) you are invoking the program called
"/usr/local/bin/stripmime.pl|/var/lib/mailman/mail/wrapper"

I suggest you drop the stuff into its own little shell script and use
that as the delivery target.

Much of this is covered in the FAQ and documentation on the exim web
site.

	Nigel.




From nb at thinkcoach.com  Tue Jun 12 16:04:13 2001
From: nb at thinkcoach.com (Norbert Bollow)
Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 16:04:13 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: [Mailman-Developers] adding anonymity features?
In-Reply-To: <054101c0f32c$344c4c60$1fa95882@halls.umist.ac.uk>
	(yanuar-n@unisosdem.org)
References: <054101c0f32c$344c4c60$1fa95882@halls.umist.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <200106121404.f5CE4DZ23979@quill>

> ps. I am an NGO activist in Indonesia, where the possible advantageous usage
> of this feature might be huge among many NGO/non-governmental/non-commercial
> group that exist.

Yanuar,
  if the intention is to have some protection from government
institutions, unscrupulous corporations or extremist religious
groups that might want to trace messages back to the sender -
that is difficult to achieve with an email-based system unless
everyone who participates in the discussion is technically
skilled enough to understand what they're doing when using a
chain of anonymous remailers.

Otherwise you have a big risk that the "anonymity features" give
a false feeling of security, nothing more.  As a very simple
example, your message which I received via the list had this
revealing Received: header.

Received: from gsb031.halls.umist.ac.uk ([130.88.169.31] helo=yanuar)
	by deluge.umist.ac.uk with smtp (Exim 3.22 #1)
	id 159leV-00074L-00; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 11:44:03 +0100

It would not be too difficult to trace the message back to you
with this information even if Mailman had removed your email
address from the From: header.

Of course you can have the mailing list server strip Received:
headers, but then you also have to worry about maillogs,
bounces, etc. etc.

It would be much easier to achieve truly anonymous exchange of
messages via a web-based system. Make sure that the webserver
does not log the IP numbers of incoming HTTP requests, and tell
everyone to connect to the webserver only via a service like
http://www.inetprivacy.com/a4proxy/ and you should be relatively
safe.

Greetings, Norbert.

-- 
Norbert Bollow, Weidlistr.18, CH-8624 Gruet (near Zurich, Switzerland)
Tel +41 1 972 20 59     Fax +41 1 972 20 69      nb at freedevelopers.net



From luser at ahab.com  Tue Jun 12 18:20:20 2001
From: luser at ahab.com (JT)
Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 12:20:20 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] separate smtp server
In-Reply-To: <20010608125504.G17915-100000@phred.org>; from alex@phred.org on Fri, Jun 08, 2001 at 12:57:46PM -0700
References: <20010608143300.K309@zed.unbeat.com> <20010608125504.G17915-100000@phred.org>
Message-ID: <20010612122019.C560@zed.unbeat.com>

The goal is that my mail server and my web server are not the same...
I just wasn't sure how to complete the setup where the *inbound* MTA
isn't on the same server as the outbound one (where it's obvious what
to do).

It turns out that you really don't need to install mailman on the mail
server - only on the web server.  As long as the mail server forwards
mailman mail to the same address on the web server, e.g.
mailman at myserver.dom -> mailman at www.myserver.dom, mailman seems happy,
archives will be in the right place, etc.  I suppose there are further
refinements you could make, but those would be very specific to your
MTA...


On Fri, Jun 08, 2001 at 12:57:46PM -0700, alex wetmore wrote:
> On Fri, 8 Jun 2001, JT wrote:
> > I am trying to set up a mailman installation where the web and smtp
> > servers are separate... E.g., the list address is mylist at foo.org,
> > my mail server is mail.foo.org, and the interface is maintained on
> > www.foo.org
> 
> My first question is, what is your goal in doing this?
> 
> I have a system where the web and smtp servers are mostly seperate.
> The server which hosts the lists primarily does the web stuff, and has
> incoming email via postfix.  Mailman hands off outgoing email to
> another SMTP server which is better setup to handle sending large
> amounts of email.  This configuration is really easy to setup and
> might meet your needs.
> 
> If you don't want to expose the smtp server on the web box to the
> world then you could have incoming email go to the smtp box, and have
> it hand off mailman mail to the web box.  This way the smtp server on
> the web box would only need to allow connections from the smtp box.
> If I had to run behind a single IP address this is the configuration
> that I would use.
> 
> alex
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users maillist  -  Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------
 Jason Thaxter        /"\   ASCII Ribbon Campaign
 jason at thaxter.net    \ / - NO HTML/RTF in e-mail
 (917) 334-9981        X  - NO Word docs in e-mail
                      / \
-------------------------------------------------------------------




From luser at ahab.com  Tue Jun 12 18:29:38 2001
From: luser at ahab.com (JT)
Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 12:29:38 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman sitepass
In-Reply-To: <15140.57820.726294.149279@anthem.wooz.org>; from barry@digicool.com on Mon, Jun 11, 2001 at 11:21:00AM -0400
References: <510EAC2065C0D311929200A0247252622F77E6@NETIVITY-FS> <20010611101626.C31829@sherohman.org> <15140.57820.726294.149279@anthem.wooz.org>
Message-ID: <20010612122937.D560@zed.unbeat.com>

I expect that this analysis is on target - FreeBSD did make some
changes with crypt around 4.2 that disrupted a few things.  If your
system is on one side of that change and your Python installation on
the other, that could be the source of the problem.

If the below suggestion doesn't work, I'd recommend rebuilding Python
(you did build it from source, didn't you ;-) and I guess remove the
pyc files too, although I don't really know anything about Python
bytecode, so take that with a grain of, er, SALT.


On Mon, Jun 11, 2001 at 11:21:00AM -0400, Barry A. Warsaw wrote:
> 
> The problem could be with Python's crypt module, which depending on
> the platform and the way Python was built on it, may not exist or may
> be broken.
> 
> Note that MM2.1 uses SHA1 for all hashing, as this has proven to be
> the most reliable (and the most reliably extant).
> 
> My suggestion for you is to set USE_CRYPT=0 in your mm_cfg.py file.
> That will force MM2.0.x to use md5 instead of crypt.  However, be
> aware that this may break any existing list admin passwords.  Once you
> have your site password working, you can use it to go back and reset
> all your list admin passwords.
> 
> -Barry
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users maillist  -  Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users



From claw at kanga.nu  Tue Jun 12 18:45:34 2001
From: claw at kanga.nu (J C Lawrence)
Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 09:45:34 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] anonymous milist 
In-Reply-To: Message from "Yanuar Nugroho" <y.nugroho@student.umist.ac.uk> 
   of "Tue, 12 Jun 2001 13:14:07 BST." <059801c0f339$2dd827c0$1fa95882@halls.umist.ac.uk> 
References: <059801c0f339$2dd827c0$1fa95882@halls.umist.ac.uk> 
Message-ID: <7684.992364334@kanga.nu>

On Tue, 12 Jun 2001 13:14:07 +0100 
Yanuar Nugroho <y.nugroho at student.umist.ac.uk> wrote:

> Does Mailman support anonymity (anonymous list) which basically is
> done by hiding the identity of the sender so that the recipients
> would not acknowledge the sender?

Somehwat, in that it will rewrite the From: header if configured
to.  Notice that this does not remove the Received: headers, which
will point back to the original poster, and will not remove any
identifying text within the message body (such as .signatures).

-- 
J C Lawrence                                       claw at kanga.nu
---------(*)                          http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/
The pressure to survive and rhetoric may make strange bedfellows



From barry at digicool.com  Tue Jun 12 18:46:05 2001
From: barry at digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 12:46:05 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman sitepass
References: <510EAC2065C0D311929200A0247252622F77E6@NETIVITY-FS>
	<20010611101626.C31829@sherohman.org>
	<15140.57820.726294.149279@anthem.wooz.org>
	<20010612122937.D560@zed.unbeat.com>
Message-ID: <15142.18253.972012.182249@anthem.wooz.org>

>>>>> "J" == JT  <luser at ahab.com> writes:

    J> If the below suggestion doesn't work, I'd recommend rebuilding
    J> Python (you did build it from source, didn't you ;-) and I
    J> guess remove the pyc files too, although I don't really know
    J> anything about Python bytecode, so take that with a grain of,
    J> er, SALT.

:)

Python will automatically recompile to pyc if the py file is newer.
Think of the pycs as a cache of the compilation phase from Python
source to bytecodes.

Removing the pycs can't hurt though.

Cheers,
-Barry



From bw99a at softcom.net  Tue Jun 12 19:18:36 2001
From: bw99a at softcom.net (Benjamin Winn)
Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 10:18:36 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Email Addresses
Message-ID: <000c01c0f363$b8571300$e8deabd0@bw>

How can I download email addresses from Mailman?  Is there a file that keeps
a list of all the email addresses?

Thanks!

Sincerely,
Benjamin Winn

The Trekker Newsletter - http://www.treknewsletter.com/
mailto:ttn-request at treknewsletter.com?subject=Subscribe

District News - http://www.districtnews.net/




From Oo1morninstars at aol.com  Tue Jun 12 19:27:20 2001
From: Oo1morninstars at aol.com (Oo1morninstars at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 13:27:20 EDT
Subject: [Mailman-Users] (no subject)
Message-ID: <5a.16f6b32e.2857aaf8@aol.com>

Please canal my users info thank you!
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From louiza at home.com  Tue Jun 12 19:45:31 2001
From: louiza at home.com (Louiza)
Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 10:45:31 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Instability of Mailman or ?
Message-ID: <p05001913b74c01f6a2f3@[24.6.175.99]>

Is Mailman 2.0.1 that unstable or is it my webhost's servers -- every 
week I have to contact them for support for something that has gone 
wrong with my list. Today, again, no mail is being delivered. :(

I am happy to be free of Yahoo Groups, but I am getting increasingly 
concerned about the reliability of using Mailman through my website's 
servers. Lots of the members, including myself, experience missing 
mail and mail out of sequence and when tests are run, the tests prove 
mail is getting through to them. While we experienced missing mail 
when Yahoo/eGroups/Onelist served the list, at least there was a 
website archive from which to read and post mail.

I really like using the Mailman software, but the reliability issues 
are starting to wear me down.

Regards,

Louiza



From cwieland at uci.edu  Tue Jun 12 20:43:34 2001
From: cwieland at uci.edu (Con Wieland)
Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 11:43:34 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Public DIsplayed lists
Message-ID: <v04011700b74c128d3eab@[128.200.132.196]>

Hello

Mailman doesn't seem to recognize public lists. I have lists set to:

Advertise this list when people ask what lists are on this machine?   Yes

But they are not displayed when I go to the .../mailman/listinfo page

Thanks in advance for any help.
Con Wieland
UC Irvine



From alaric at babylon5.babcom.com  Tue Jun 12 20:57:18 2001
From: alaric at babylon5.babcom.com (Phil Stracchino)
Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 11:57:18 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <5a.16f6b32e.2857aaf8@aol.com>; from Oo1morninstars@aol.com on Tue, Jun 12, 2001 at 01:27:20PM -0400
References: <5a.16f6b32e.2857aaf8@aol.com>
Message-ID: <20010612115718.A16650@babylon5.babcom.com>

On Tue, Jun 12, 2001 at 01:27:20PM -0400, Oo1morninstars at aol.com wrote:
> Please canal my users info thank you!

Sorry, no can do.  Mail is packet-based, and that's a streaming operation.

<duck>


-- 
 Linux Now!   ..........Because friends don't let friends use Microsoft.
 phil stracchino   --   the renaissance man   --   mystic zen biker geek
    Vr00m:  2000 Honda CBR929RR   --   Cage:  2000 Dodge Intrepid R/T
 Previous vr00mage:  1986 VF500F (sold), 1991 VFR750F3 (foully murdered)



From Jorge at autodaq.com  Tue Jun 12 21:48:08 2001
From: Jorge at autodaq.com (Jorge Borbolla)
Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 12:48:08 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Change subject line for auto-reponder
Message-ID: <54C20F3892DFD311AA86009027989DA701210F0A@daq01.autodaq.com>

Hello!

I'm new to Mailman so please bear with me if this question has been answered
elsewhere....

Can the subject line be changed in auto-responder messages? How?

Thanks!

Jorge






From mitchell at walrus.uchicago.edu  Wed Jun  6 23:33:20 2001
From: mitchell at walrus.uchicago.edu (Mitchell Marks)
Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2001 16:33:20 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] set gid didn't work?
In-Reply-To: <3B1E7308.C85AA680@auntminnie.com>
References: <3B1E499D.91D47D@auntminnie.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010606162955.0714cd90@pop.cs.uchicago.edu>

At 01:14 PM 6/6/01, Amanda wrote:


>Well, I thought that was a little weird, so I looked up gid 401, and it
>doesn't exist. So I collected some additional information, and
>reconfigured with mail gid set to 400 (qmail). I

If you have access to /etc/group (or the equivalent), how about just 
/making up/ a group 401 entry?  Call it whatever name you like, like 
"qmail-oddity".   Then configure/make Mailman with gid 401, and hopefully 
it won't refuse, since now that's a listed group.

Good luck!

    -- Mitch Marks



--
Mitchell Marks
CUIP Tech Coordinator    http://cuip.uchicago.edu
CUIP: Chicago Public Schools / Univ. of Chicago Internet Project
5640 S Ellis Ave  AAC-045, Univ of Chgo, Chgo IL 60637

Telephone:  Ofc 773-702-6041
         Fax 702-8212
         Home (v.m. only, ok any time) 241-7166
Email: Primary address: mitch at cuip.uchicago.edu
         Alternate UofC addresses (use especially to report problems with 
cuip.uchicago.edu): mitchell at cs.uchicago.edu and mmar at midway.uchicago.edu
         Off-campus (ISP) address: mmarks at corecomm.net

Mr. Shrimp felt helplessly caught up in events  ... he was just a prawn in 
their game.
Mlle. Snail bought a sports car and had a big "S" painted on the sides ... 
now everybody seeing her zoom by says "Look at that S-Car go!".




From claw at 2wire.com  Thu Jun  7 00:04:09 2001
From: claw at 2wire.com (J C Lawrence)
Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2001 15:04:09 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: MIME messages 
In-Reply-To: Message from "Joaquim Homrighausen" <joho@webbplatsen.se> 
   of "Wed, 06 Jun 2001 23:02:39 +0200." <E157kPm-0005FE-00@mail.python.org> 
References: <E157kPm-0005FE-00@mail.python.org> 
Message-ID: <18710.991865049@2wire.com>

On Wed, 06 Jun 2001 23:02:39 +0200 
Joaquim Homrighausen <joho at webbplatsen.se> wrote:

>  * On Wed, 6 Jun 2001 12:15:06 -0400, Barry A. Warsaw wrote:
>> Could someone write up a quick list of requirements for demimeing
>> that they'd like to see encorporated directly into Mailman 2.1?

> I tend to agree with many of the other suggestions/responses to
> your question. My primary functionality requirements are probably
> very basic, but those I can think of right now are:

> 1) Being able to handle MIME:d messages when parsing requests.

> 2) Being able to handle MIME:d messages written to the list with a
> number of options such as HTML->Text conversion, bouncing messages
> with no plain/text part, etc.

> 3) Being able to extract/strip attachments.

Add:

  Ability to unroll quoted printable.

  Ability to unroll base64 encoded plain text.

  Ability to strip blocks from message parts that match stated
  patterns (eg Yahoo/MSN/Hotmail ads, corporate CYA statements,
  etc).

  Ability to filter on line length (eg hold for moderation or
  auto-discard/reject).  

-- 
J C Lawrence                                       claw at kanga.nu
---------(*)                          http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/
The pressure to survive and rhetoric may make strange bedfellows



From claw at 2wire.com  Thu Jun  7 00:07:00 2001
From: claw at 2wire.com (J C Lawrence)
Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2001 15:07:00 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] header management? 
In-Reply-To: Message from Chuq Von Rospach <chuqui@plaidworks.com> 
   of "Wed, 06 Jun 2001 11:07:27 PDT." <200106061805.f56I5lD16354@lists.apple.com> 
References: <200106061805.f56I5lD16354@lists.apple.com> 
Message-ID: <18756.991865220@2wire.com>

On Wed, 6 Jun 2001 11:07:27 -0700 
Chuq Von Rospach <chuqui at plaidworks.com> wrote:
> On Wednesday, June 6, 2001, at 10:58 AM, Tim Tyler wrote:

>> mailman experts, I just received a request from an owner of a
>> list on how to limit many of the headers that are received by the
>> end user.  While some headers are probably necessary, many are
>> not.

> This is all over the archives. Barry, has this ever been added to
> the FAQ, so we can simply point to it and not restart this
> argument again?

Spoilsport.  You're going to ruin our monthly exercise, and its the
only time some of us get out ya know.

-- 
J C Lawrence                                       claw at kanga.nu
---------(*)                          http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/
The pressure to survive and rhetoric may make strange bedfellows



From claw at 2wire.com  Thu Jun  7 00:22:56 2001
From: claw at 2wire.com (J C Lawrence)
Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2001 15:22:56 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Fwd: delivery failure 
In-Reply-To: Message from Chuq Von Rospach <chuqui@plaidworks.com> 
   of "Wed, 06 Jun 2001 10:16:05 PDT." <200106061714.f56HEOi06632@lists.apple.com> 
References: <200106061714.f56HEOi06632@lists.apple.com> 
Message-ID: <19016.991866176@2wire.com>

On Wed, 6 Jun 2001 10:16:05 -0700 
Chuq Von Rospach <chuqui at plaidworks.com> wrote:

> Barry, whatever you do -- don't do it this way.

His phrasing could be a mite more elegant, but the basic approach
seems sound.  How about instead of:

>> Your email Re: [Mailman-Users] Re: MIME messages , Wed, 6 Jun
>> 2001 10:03:00 -0700 containing HTML junk is not wanted here for
>> security reasons. It has been bounced without human intervention.

Something ala:

  Your message of date DD MM YYYY with Subject "<subject>" has been
  <rejected|discarded> by the <LISTNAME> mailing list for one the
  following reasons:

    -- Contains one or more <MIMEtype> attachments
    -- Matches keyword filters that the list owner has defined.
    -- <list_owner_defined_reason>

  An original copy of your message is attached below.

There should also be a matching set for edits:

  Your message of date DD MM YYYY with Subject "<subject>" has been
  edited by the list server for the <LISTNAME> mailing list for one
  the following reasons:

    -- Automatic removal of one or more <MIMEtype> attachments
    -- Automatic unrolling of unnecessarily quoted/printable text.
    -- Automatic unrolling of unnecessarily base64 encoded text.
    -- Automatic removal of a filtered text block configured by the
    list owner.
    -- Was manually edited by the list owner.
    -- <list_owner_defined_reason>

  Both an original copy of your message is attached below, as well
  as the edited version which was forwarded to the list for
  broadcast..
 
Of course the returned messages should be attached as a
message/rfc822 MIME parts rather than jut being inlined as flat
text.  (Yeesh) I'm also rather keen on inserting a custom header on
messages which have been automatically edited to indicate that they
are not as sent by the original author.

. o O ( And it seemed such a simple idea when we started )
-- 
J C Lawrence                                       claw at kanga.nu
---------(*)                          http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/
The pressure to survive and rhetoric may make strange bedfellows



From claw at 2wire.com  Thu Jun  7 00:28:28 2001
From: claw at 2wire.com (J C Lawrence)
Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2001 15:28:28 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: MIME messages 
In-Reply-To: Message from alex wetmore <alex@phred.org> 
   of "Wed, 06 Jun 2001 07:14:03 PDT." <20010606070939.S3701-100000@phred.org> 
References: <20010606070939.S3701-100000@phred.org> 
Message-ID: <19108.991866508@2wire.com>

On Wed, 6 Jun 2001 07:14:03 -0700 (PDT) 
alex wetmore <alex at phred.org> wrote:
> On Wed, 6 Jun 2001, Joaquim Homrighausen wrote:
>> * On Wed, 06 Jun 2001 03:43:32 -0700, J C Lawrence wrote:

>>> The normal approach is to stick demime/mailfilter/stripmime in
>>> front of the Mailman aliases.
>> 
>> Any reason why I would want to use one over the other?

> I haven't heard of mailfilter before.

s/mailfilter/mimefilter/

> A recent stripmime feature that I added is to convert HTML-only
> messages into plaintext.  It doesn't always do a pretty job of the
> conversion, but the conversion does work.  I don't know if demime
> has this functionality.

I believe it does.

-- 
J C Lawrence                                       claw at kanga.nu
---------(*)                          http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/
The pressure to survive and rhetoric may make strange bedfellows



From jle at messagebay.com  Thu Jun  7 02:02:01 2001
From: jle at messagebay.com (John Le)
Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 17:02:01 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] help mailman installation
Message-ID: <025201c0eee5$1480f110$fb01a8c0@JLE2K>

Hi,

I am having the biggest problem with installing Mailman.
First I got this message.


   ----- Transcript of session follows -----
sh: wrapper not available for sendmail programs
554 "|/home/mailman/mail/wrapper post va"... Service unavailable


After running "ln -s /etc/smrsh/wrapper wrapper" I  get this message
-----
Traceback (innermost last):
  File "/home/mailman/scripts/post", line 94, in ?
    main()
  File "/home/mailman/scripts/post", line 73, in main
    mlist = MailList.MailList(listname, lock=0)
  File "/home/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 79, in __init__
    self.Load()
  File "/home/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 891, in Load
    dict, e = self.__load(dbfile)
  File "/home/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 868, in __load
    fp = open(dbfile)
IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied:
'/home/mailman/lists/va/config.db'
554 "|/home/mailman/mail/wrapper post va"... unknown mailer error 1


I have opened over 100 links about this error on the web, but have yet to
come with a solution.
Can please advise?

Thanks,
John Le




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From MSmith at Intelligentsolutions.co.uk  Thu Jun  7 10:58:47 2001
From: MSmith at Intelligentsolutions.co.uk (Mike Smith)
Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2001 09:58:47 +0100 
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Subscriptions
Message-ID: <D60A31839FF4D411B21A00B0D079534204CAD6@exchange-server>

Some of our users are receiving up[ward of 70 mails a day from your selves.
Could you remove all traces of xxxxxxx at intelligentsolutions.co.uk from your
system or i will be forced to block your address. This means you will
receive an administrative mail each time you try to send us a mail

Mike Smith
IT Department
MBA Intelligent Solutions
MSmith at IntelligentSolutions.co.uk






From jtrigg at huiekin.org  Thu Jun  7 16:59:33 2001
From: jtrigg at huiekin.org (jtrigg at huiekin.org)
Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2001 10:59:33 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] question
In-Reply-To: <15135.38016.641639.543793@anthem.wooz.org>; from barry@digicool.com on Thu, Jun 07, 2001 at 10:49:36AM -0400
References: <200106062211.PAA28103@utopia.West.Sun.COM> <200106062214.f56MENh27710@plaidworks.com> <15135.38016.641639.543793@anthem.wooz.org>
Message-ID: <20010607105933.G18998@scadian.net>

On Thu, Jun 07, 2001 at 10:49:36AM -0400, Barry A. Warsaw wrote:
> 
> >>>>> "CVR" == Chuq Von Rospach <chuqui at plaidworks.com> writes:
> 
>     CVR> On Wednesday, June 6, 2001, at 03:11 PM, Dan Mick wrote:
> 
>     >> Ah, I love the New World...
>     >>  What you mean is 'Unix'.
> 
>     CVR> Paul McCartney was in a band before Wings? I don't believe
>     CVR> it!

Paul McCartney was in a band?!?

This from one who frequently listens to Duke Ellington and Glenn
Miller...

Jim
-- 
Jim Trigg                      /"\
SKA Blaise de Cormeilles       \ /     ASCII RIBBON CAMPAIGN
Hostmaster                      X       HELP CURE HTML MAIL
Academy of S. Gabriel          / \



From scriptures at ifriendly.com  Thu Jun  7 22:26:03 2001
From: scriptures at ifriendly.com (scriptures)
Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2001 16:26:03 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bug
Message-ID: <000701c0ef90$14c110a0$822c43d8@ifriendly.com>

Don't know if I am correctin the right person, but I received the warning
below when I went to put a new name in my address book. Mailman v 1.1.

Please correct as soon as posible or direct me to the right source.

God Bless,
Rosario Abate,
Scriptures(tm)

-------------Original Message ---------------------

Bug in Mailman version 1.1

We're sorry, we hit a bug!
If you would like to help us identify the problem, please email a copy of
this page to the webmaster for this site with a description of what
happened. Thanks!

Traceback:


Traceback (innermost last):
  File "/home/mailman/scripts/driver", line 112, in run_main
    main()
  File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/admin.py", line 167, in main
    ChangeOptions(lst, category, cgi_data, doc)
  File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/admin.py", line 876, in ChangeOptions
    lst.SetUserOption(user, okey, 0)
  File "/home/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 217, in SetUserOption
    self.Save()
  File "/home/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 799, in Save
    self.CheckHTMLArchiveDir()
  File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/Archiver.py", line 274, in
CheckHTMLArchiveDir
    breaklink(pubdir)
  File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/Archiver.py", line 64, in breaklink
    reraise()
  File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/Archiver.py", line 60, in breaklink
    os.unlink(link)
OSError: [Errno 13] Permission denied:
'/home/mailman/archives/public/scriptures'





----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----

Environment variables:
Variable Value
DOCUMENT_ROOT  /usr/local/apache/htdocs
SERVER_ADDR  209.223.0.5
HTTP_ACCEPT_ENCODING  gzip, deflate
CONTENT_LENGTH  3008
CONTENT_TYPE  application/x-www-form-urlencoded
PATH_TRANSLATED  /usr/local/apache/htdocs/scriptures/members
HTTP_CONNECTION  Keep-Alive
SERVER_SOFTWARE  Apache/1.3.11 (Unix)
GATEWAY_INTERFACE  CGI/1.1
HTTP_COOKIE
scriptures:admin="(lp1\012S'216.67.44.130'\012p2\012aI991943941\012aI9919547
41\012aI1379345001\012a."
HTTP_ACCEPT_LANGUAGE  en-us
REMOTE_ADDR  216.67.44.130
SERVER_PORT  80
TZ  US/Central
HTTP_USER_AGENT  Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.5; Windows 98; Mozilla/4.0
(compatible; MSIE 5.0; Windows NT; ifriendly.com))
HTTP_ACCEPT  image/gif, image/x-xbitmap, image/jpeg, image/pjpeg, */*
REQUEST_URI  /mailman/admin/scriptures/members
HTTP_CACHE_CONTROL  no-cache
PATH  /usr/sbin:/usr/bin
QUERY_STRING
SERVER_PROTOCOL  HTTP/1.1
PATH_INFO  /scriptures/members
HTTP_HOST  mail.network.lifeline.net
REQUEST_METHOD  POST
SERVER_SIGNATURE  Apache/1.3.11 Server at mail.network.lifeline.net Port 80
SCRIPT_NAME  /mailman/admin
SERVER_ADMIN  root at mail.network.lifeline.net
SCRIPT_FILENAME  /opt/users/mailman/cgi-bin/admin
PYTHONPATH  /home/mailman
HTTP_REFERER
http://mail.network.lifeline.net/mailman/admin/scriptures/members
SERVER_NAME  mail.network.lifeline.net
REMOTE_PORT  1038






From scriptures at ifriendly.com  Fri Jun  8 20:18:51 2001
From: scriptures at ifriendly.com (scriptures)
Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2001 14:18:51 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bug
Message-ID: <011801c0f047$79517660$252c43d8@ifriendly.com>

To whom it may concern,

I received the following bug message whenI attempted to add a new member to
my address book. Please help

God Bless,

Rosario Abate,
Scriptures(tm)

------------------original message-------------------------

Bug in Mailman version 1.1

We're sorry, we hit a bug!
If you would like to help us identify the problem, please email a copy of
this page to the webmaster for this site with a description of what
happened. Thanks!

Traceback:


Traceback (innermost last):
  File "/home/mailman/scripts/driver", line 112, in run_main
    main()
  File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/admin.py", line 167, in main
    ChangeOptions(lst, category, cgi_data, doc)
  File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/admin.py", line 876, in ChangeOptions
    lst.SetUserOption(user, okey, 0)
  File "/home/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 217, in SetUserOption
    self.Save()
  File "/home/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 799, in Save
    self.CheckHTMLArchiveDir()
  File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/Archiver.py", line 274, in
CheckHTMLArchiveDir
    breaklink(pubdir)
  File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/Archiver.py", line 64, in breaklink
    reraise()
  File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/Archiver.py", line 60, in breaklink
    os.unlink(link)
OSError: [Errno 13] Permission denied:
'/home/mailman/archives/public/scriptures'





----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----

Environment variables:
Variable Value
DOCUMENT_ROOT  /usr/local/apache/htdocs
SERVER_ADDR  209.223.0.5
HTTP_ACCEPT_ENCODING  gzip, deflate
CONTENT_LENGTH  3022
CONTENT_TYPE  application/x-www-form-urlencoded
PATH_TRANSLATED  /usr/local/apache/htdocs/scriptures/members
HTTP_CONNECTION  Keep-Alive
SERVER_SOFTWARE  Apache/1.3.11 (Unix)
GATEWAY_INTERFACE  CGI/1.1
HTTP_COOKIE
scriptures:admin="(lp1\012S'216.67.44.37'\012p2\012aI992023523\012aI99203432
3\012aI1934973238\012a."
HTTP_ACCEPT_LANGUAGE  en-us
REMOTE_ADDR  216.67.44.37
SERVER_PORT  80
TZ  US/Central
HTTP_USER_AGENT  Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.5; Windows 98; Mozilla/4.0
(compatible; MSIE 5.0; Windows NT; ifriendly.com))
HTTP_ACCEPT  image/gif, image/x-xbitmap, image/jpeg, image/pjpeg, */*
REQUEST_URI  /mailman/admin/scriptures/members
HTTP_CACHE_CONTROL  no-cache
PATH  /usr/sbin:/usr/bin
QUERY_STRING
SERVER_PROTOCOL  HTTP/1.1
PATH_INFO  /scriptures/members
HTTP_HOST  mail.network.lifeline.net
REQUEST_METHOD  POST
SERVER_SIGNATURE  Apache/1.3.11 Server at mail.network.lifeline.net Port 80
SCRIPT_NAME  /mailman/admin
SERVER_ADMIN  root at mail.network.lifeline.net
SCRIPT_FILENAME  /opt/users/mailman/cgi-bin/admin
PYTHONPATH  /home/mailman
HTTP_REFERER
http://mail.network.lifeline.net/mailman/admin/scriptures/members
SERVER_NAME  mail.network.lifeline.net
REMOTE_PORT  1238







From vivek_kute at rediffmail.com  Sat Jun  9 09:58:39 2001
From: vivek_kute at rediffmail.com (vivek bhaskarrao kute)
Date: 9 Jun 2001 07:58:39 -0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] query
Message-ID: <20010609075839.15019.qmail@mailweb30.rediffmail.com>

Dear Sir/madam

I had seen your site and come to know that using mailman
i can send mails to group
but now i want to know how it will work

my questions are 
1. whether this software will be handeled by server or i have to send mails from my machine becoz my server is at different place
and what commands i have to use for sending mail

2. how many addressess i can put at a time

and pls send me details about how to install how to download

thanking u 
vivek

_____________________________________________________
Chat with your friends as soon as they come online. Get Rediff Bol at
http://bol.rediff.com







From bw99a at softcom.net  Sun Jun 10 19:49:28 2001
From: bw99a at softcom.net (Benjamin Winn)
Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2001 10:49:28 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] download email addresses
Message-ID: <000501c0f1d5$b6084fe0$83deabd0@bw>

Is there a way I can download all of the email addresses in my mailing list
on mailman?

Sincerely,
Benjamin Winn

The Trekker Newsletter - http://www.treknewsletter.com/
mailto:ttn-request at treknewsletter.com?subject=Subscribe

District News - http://www.districtnews.net/




From brammeke at brammeke.net  Sun Jun 10 21:10:16 2001
From: brammeke at brammeke.net (Bram Dispa)
Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2001 21:10:16 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Limit no. of lists
Message-ID: <IBECIPNCMKMFPIJOEEHIKEKLDHAA.brammeke@brammeke.net>

Hi!

Is there a possibility to only let the site administrator create
mailinglists? I don't want users to create mailinglist whenever they want...

Thanks,

Bram
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From linuxsoftlandindia at hotpop.com  Mon Jun 11 14:25:21 2001
From: linuxsoftlandindia at hotpop.com (Murali Kumar)
Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 17:55:21 +0530
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman v2.0.5
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010611175434.00a01ec0@pop.hotpop.com>


Dear Sir,

Congratulations for Your Excellent Software ( Mailman v2.0.5     )
Your software has been selected in the category "Email ------> Email List 
Management" by our editorial team. Come to 
http://www.softlandindia.com/Linux/    Onestop site for Softwares; See the 
Winners.

Our Home Page: http://www.softlandindia.com/Linux/

Your Excellent Software Located 
at:  http://www.softlandindia.com/Linux/EmailList.htm

Editors Pick Logo at:

http://www.softlandindia.com/editorspick.gif

Please inform us of updates and trial versions. We would like to review
them early for our readers.


Thanking You,

With Kind Regards,

K.Murali Kumar
Webmaster
www.softlandindia.com
Email Ids: info.softlandindia at hotpop.com and softlandindia at hotpop.com
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, send email to: softlandindia at hotpop.com
SubJect: Unsubscribe

-------------- next part --------------
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From AMORGAN at lifeline.net  Mon Jun 11 23:27:00 2001
From: AMORGAN at lifeline.net (Morgan, Andrew R.)
Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 16:27:00 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 1.1 Error
Message-ID: <75FDF3646591D311B29E00508B318D07C59F05@mail.lifeline.net>

We have recently begun seeing the following error.  All permissions seem to
be OK and directories seem to be linked properly... Can you give me any
ideas?

Thanks

Bug in Mailman version 1.1
We're sorry, we hit a bug!
If you would like to help us identify the problem, please email a copy of
this page to the webmaster for this site with a description of what
happened. Thanks! 
Traceback:

Traceback (innermost last):
  File "/home/mailman/scripts/driver", line 112, in run_main
    main()
  File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/admin.py", line 167, in main
    ChangeOptions(lst, category, cgi_data, doc)
  File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/admin.py", line 876, in ChangeOptions
    lst.SetUserOption(user, okey, 0)
  File "/home/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 217, in SetUserOption
    self.Save()
  File "/home/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 799, in Save
    self.CheckHTMLArchiveDir()
  File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/Archiver.py", line 274, in
CheckHTMLArchiveDir
    breaklink(pubdir)
  File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/Archiver.py", line 64, in breaklink
    reraise()
  File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/Archiver.py", line 60, in breaklink
    os.unlink(link)
OSError: [Errno 13] Permission denied:
'/home/mailman/archives/public/scriptures'




From yanuar-n at unisosdem.org  Tue Jun 12 12:41:14 2001
From: yanuar-n at unisosdem.org (Yanuar Nugroho)
Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 11:41:14 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] adding anonymity features?
Message-ID: <054101c0f32c$344c4c60$1fa95882@halls.umist.ac.uk>

Hi there!

A short introduction: I am a MSc student in Information Systems Engineering
at UMIST, Manchester, UK, who is now doing my dissertation on applying
anonymity in mailing list communication to examine the communication
behaviour among participants.

The idea is basically hiding the identity of the sender so that the
communication will be based on what is being communicated and not who is
communicating in the group. The possible usage in the future might range
from decision making within organisation (or network/group) to conflict
resolution.

I am interested in Mailman (GNU milist mgt system) to be developed or
equipped with anonymity features. Is it possible to add "anonym feature" in
Mailman? Can you give me a clue from where should I start? I have with me
now the source-code of Mailman (written in Python) together with its
documentation.



Cheers,
Yanuar
ps. I am an NGO activist in Indonesia, where the possible advantageous usage
of this feature might be huge among many NGO/non-governmental/non-commercial
group that exist.

Yanuar Nugroho
http://yanuar-nugroho.mainpage.net
http://www.yanuar-n.net
----------------------------------------
PG. Stud. MSc. Information Systems Engineering,
Dept. of Computation, UMIST, Manchester - UK





From claw at 2wire.com  Tue Jun 12 21:16:24 2001
From: claw at 2wire.com (J C Lawrence)
Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 12:16:24 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Instability of Mailman or ? 
In-Reply-To: Message from Louiza <louiza@home.com> 
   of "Tue, 12 Jun 2001 10:45:31 PDT." <p05001913b74c01f6a2f3@[24.6.175.99]> 
References: <p05001913b74c01f6a2f3@[24.6.175.99]> 
Message-ID: <5582.992373384@2wire.com>

On Tue, 12 Jun 2001 10:45:31 -0700 
louiza  <louiza at home.com> wrote:

> Is Mailman 2.0.1 that unstable or is it my webhost's servers --
> every week I have to contact them for support for something that
> has gone wrong with my list. Today, again, no mail is being
> delivered. :(

This is an issue with your provider, not Mailman.  Most likely it is
not an issue with your provider's Mailman installation, but problems
with their mail infrastructure.

-- 
J C Lawrence                                       claw at kanga.nu
---------(*)                          http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/
The pressure to survive and rhetoric may make strange bedfellows



From claw at 2wire.com  Tue Jun 12 21:16:43 2001
From: claw at 2wire.com (J C Lawrence)
Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 12:16:43 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Email Addresses 
In-Reply-To: Message from "Benjamin Winn" <bw99a@softcom.net> 
   of "Tue, 12 Jun 2001 10:18:36 PDT." <000c01c0f363$b8571300$e8deabd0@bw> 
References: <000c01c0f363$b8571300$e8deabd0@bw> 
Message-ID: <5598.992373403@2wire.com>

On Tue, 12 Jun 2001 10:18:36 -0700 
Benjamin Winn <bw99a at softcom.net> wrote:

> How can I download email addresses from Mailman?  Is there a file
> that keeps a list of all the email addresses?

~/bin/list_members

-- 
J C Lawrence                                       claw at kanga.nu
---------(*)                          http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/
The pressure to survive and rhetoric may make strange bedfellows



From MarkRoedel at letu.edu  Tue Jun 12 21:43:50 2001
From: MarkRoedel at letu.edu (Mark Roedel)
Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 14:43:50 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Instability of Mailman or ?
Message-ID: <CF8E50F639267A448696655B7465DA4A063D4A@rachael.letnet.net>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Louiza [mailto:louiza at home.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2001 12:46 PM
> To: mailman-users at python.org
> Subject: [Mailman-Users] Instability of Mailman or ?
> 
> 
> Is Mailman 2.0.1 that unstable or is it my webhost's servers -- every 
> week I have to contact them for support for something that has gone 
> wrong with my list. Today, again, no mail is being delivered. :(

Do your support staff give you any idea what the problem was, or what
they had to do to correct it?  That might give us something to go on in
identifying where, exactly, the problem lies.

I've been running Mailman since the 2.0betas, and haven't had any
ongoing stability problems, although I'll admit I don't have any
particularly high-traffic lists at the moment.  And I don't see anything
in the changelog since 2.0.1 that looks like it was meant to address the
sort of issue you seem to be describing (although you certainly haven't
given much in the way of detail upon which to make that judgment...)
 
> While we experienced missing mail when Yahoo/eGroups/Onelist served
> the list, at least there was a website archive from which to read and
> post mail.

Mailman does website archiving as well, if it's configured to do so.
You'd still be without the web-based posting, but I'd venture that it
might be better than nothing.  Perhaps something else to ask your
support folks about...

---
Mark Roedel           | "I know the answer!  The answer lies within the
Systems Programmer    |  heart of all mankind!  The answer is twelve?!?
LeTourneau University |  I think I'm in the wrong building."
Longview, Texas, USA  |           -- Peppermint Patty (Charles Schultz) 



From MarkRoedel at letu.edu  Tue Jun 12 22:18:45 2001
From: MarkRoedel at letu.edu (Mark Roedel)
Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 15:18:45 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 1.1 Error
Message-ID: <CF8E50F639267A448696655B7465DA4A059807@rachael.letnet.net>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Morgan, Andrew R. [mailto:AMORGAN at lifeline.net]
> Sent: Monday, June 11, 2001 4:27 PM
> To: 'mailman-users at python.org'
> Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 1.1 Error
> 
> 
> We have recently begun seeing the following error.  All 
> permissions seem to be OK

What is this statement based on?  Visual inspection?  Run of a tool like
check_perms (conveniently located in your ~mailman/bin directory)?

> and directories seem to be linked properly... Can you give
> me any ideas?
>
> [snip]
>
> OSError: [Errno 13] Permission denied:
> '/home/mailman/archives/public/scriptures'

My first thought is that this probably indicates some sort of
permissions issue.  How, exactly, are the permissions set on this
directory?


I---
         Mark Roedel           | "If you understand what you're doing
Systems Programmer / WebMaster |  you're not learning anything."
     LeTourneau University     |                   -- Abraham Lincoln



From MarkRoedel at letu.edu  Tue Jun 12 22:31:57 2001
From: MarkRoedel at letu.edu (Mark Roedel)
Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 15:31:57 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Subscriptions
Message-ID: <CF8E50F639267A448696655B7465DA4A059808@rachael.letnet.net>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mike Smith [mailto:MSmith at Intelligentsolutions.co.uk]
> Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2001 3:59 AM
> To: 'mailman-users at python.org'
> Subject: [Mailman-Users] Subscriptions
> 
> 
> Some of our users are receiving up[ward of 70 mails a day 
> from your selves.  Could you remove all traces of 
> xxxxxxx at intelligentsolutions.co.uk from your system or i
> will be forced to block your address. This means you will
> receive an administrative mail each time you try to send
> us a mail

Are you saying that your users were subscribed to the mailman-users list
against their wishes?

If so, all they need do is

(1) Go to http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
(2) Under "Mailman-Users Subscribers", enter the subscribed e-mail
address
(3) Click "Edit Options"
(4) (if necessary) click the "E-mail My Password To Me" button
(5) Enter their password under "Unsubscribing from Mailman-Users", and
(6) Click "Unsubscribe"

(This actually works...I did it just this afternoon to change the
address I was subscribed from.)


---
         Mark Roedel            ||  "There cannot be a crisis next week.
Systems Programmer / WebMaster  ||   My schedule is already full."
     LeTourneau University      ||                    -- Henry Kissinger




From barry at digicool.com  Tue Jun 12 23:10:55 2001
From: barry at digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 17:10:55 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Subscriptions
References: <D60A31839FF4D411B21A00B0D079534204CAD6@exchange-server>
Message-ID: <15142.34143.983431.207796@anthem.wooz.org>

>>>>> "MS" == Mike Smith <MSmith at Intelligentsolutions.co.uk> writes:

    MS> Some of our users are receiving up[ward of 70 mails a day from
    MS> your selves.  Could you remove all traces of
    MS> xxxxxxx at intelligentsolutions.co.uk from your system or i will
    MS> be forced to block your address. This means you will receive
    MS> an administrative mail each time you try to send us a mail

I'm sorry, but we actually have no one @intelligentsolutions.co.uk
subscribed to any mailing list @zope.org or @python.org.  You must be
thinking of some other site running the Mailman mailing list
software.  Those sites are in no way under our jurisdiction, so please
contact them to resolve your issue.

-Barry



From barry at digicool.com  Tue Jun 12 23:14:22 2001
From: barry at digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 17:14:22 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Limit no. of lists
References: <IBECIPNCMKMFPIJOEEHIKEKLDHAA.brammeke@brammeke.net>
Message-ID: <15142.34350.537690.365459@anthem.wooz.org>

>>>>> "BD" == Bram Dispa <brammeke at brammeke.net> writes:

    BD> Is there a possibility to only let the site administrator
    BD> create mailinglists? I don't want users to create mailinglist
    BD> whenever they want...

Under Mailman 2.0.x, only users that have physical access to the
machine, and sufficient shell privileges, can create new lists.  Thus
you need to make sure that your Mailman installation is properly
protected via Unix file permissions.

Mailman 2.1 will support thru-the-web creation of mailing lists, but
only the site administrator or the newly created role "list creator"
will be able to create lists.  Shell list creation will still be
supported, but the ttw interfaces will require passwords which normal
users should not have access to.

-Barry



From juha at saarinen.org  Tue Jun 12 23:38:26 2001
From: juha at saarinen.org (Juha Saarinen)
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 09:38:26 +1200 (NZST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Subscriptions
In-Reply-To: <CF8E50F639267A448696655B7465DA4A059808@rachael.letnet.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0106130936470.5609-100000@vimfuego.saarinen.org>

On Tue, 12 Jun 2001, Mark Roedel wrote:

> > Some of our users are receiving up[ward of 70 mails a day
> > from your selves.  Could you remove all traces of
> > xxxxxxx at intelligentsolutions.co.uk from your system or i
> > will be forced to block your address. This means you will
> > receive an administrative mail each time you try to send
> > us a mail
>
> Are you saying that your users were subscribed to the mailman-users list
> against their wishes?
>
> If so, all they need do is
>
> (1) Go to http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> (2) Under "Mailman-Users Subscribers", enter the subscribed e-mail
> address
> (3) Click "Edit Options"
> (4) (if necessary) click the "E-mail My Password To Me" button
> (5) Enter their password under "Unsubscribing from Mailman-Users", and
> (6) Click "Unsubscribe"
>
> (This actually works...I did it just this afternoon to change the
> address I was subscribed from.)

Also, I may I suggest a small change to the company/domain name? Prefix it
with "Un".

-- 
Regards,


Juha

PGP fingerprint:
B7E1 CC52 5FCA 9756 B502  10C8 4CD8 B066 12F3 9544




From alaric at babylon5.babcom.com  Tue Jun 12 23:44:53 2001
From: alaric at babylon5.babcom.com (Phil Stracchino)
Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 14:44:53 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Subscriptions
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0106130936470.5609-100000@vimfuego.saarinen.org>; from juha@saarinen.org on Wed, Jun 13, 2001 at 09:38:26AM +1200
References: <CF8E50F639267A448696655B7465DA4A059808@rachael.letnet.net> <Pine.LNX.4.33.0106130936470.5609-100000@vimfuego.saarinen.org>
Message-ID: <20010612144453.A21992@babylon5.babcom.com>

On Wed, Jun 13, 2001 at 09:38:26AM +1200, Juha Saarinen wrote:
> Also, I may I suggest a small change to the company/domain name? Prefix it
> with "Un".

Ok, it struck you that way too, huh?  :)  I'm frightened that this came
from a technical consulting/recruitment company's IT department.


-- 
 Linux Now!   ..........Because friends don't let friends use Microsoft.
 phil stracchino   --   the renaissance man   --   mystic zen biker geek
    Vr00m:  2000 Honda CBR929RR   --   Cage:  2000 Dodge Intrepid R/T
 Previous vr00mage:  1986 VF500F (sold), 1991 VFR750F3 (foully murdered)



From esper at sherohman.org  Wed Jun 13 00:49:24 2001
From: esper at sherohman.org (Dave Sherohman)
Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 17:49:24 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] adding anonymity features?
In-Reply-To: <054101c0f32c$344c4c60$1fa95882@halls.umist.ac.uk>; from yanuar-n@unisosdem.org on Tue, Jun 12, 2001 at 11:41:14AM +0100
References: <054101c0f32c$344c4c60$1fa95882@halls.umist.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <20010612174924.B9855@sherohman.org>

On Tue, Jun 12, 2001 at 11:41:14AM +0100, Yanuar Nugroho wrote:
> The idea is basically hiding the identity of the sender so that the
> communication will be based on what is being communicated and not who is
> communicating in the group.

This feature already exists at the list level.  On the "Privacy Options"
page of the web admin interface, turn on the "Hide the sender of a
message, replacing it with the list address (Removes From, Sender and
Reply-To fields)" option.  If you want it at the individual message level,
though, you'll have to do some hacking.

-- 
That's not gibberish...  It's Linux. - Byers, The Lone Gunmen
Geek Code 3.12:  GCS d? s+: a C++ UL++++$ P++>+++ L+++>++++ E- W--(++) N+
o+ !K w--- O M- V? PS+ PE Y+ PGP t 5++ X+ R++ tv+ b+ DI++++ D G e* h r y+



From hawk at osos.fime.uanl.mx  Tue Jun 12 23:58:56 2001
From: hawk at osos.fime.uanl.mx (David Ramirez Joya)
Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 16:58:56 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Greetings to all, A problem configuring apache...
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.1010612165502.5051B-100000@osos.fime.uanl.mx>

Again greetings to all, It's the first time I install and configure
mailman, and I am having a little problem with mailman. The
explanation of the problem is:

I wanted to use gnu mailman. So downloaded it, read the INSTALL, I
compiled it. configured the sendmail, checked all the configuration
instructions of apache, but when I try to check my recentrly added list by
using the url:

my.domain.org/mailman/listinfo/my_list

I receive from the apache server, the listing of the program listinfo, I
checked if the execution of CGI is allowed, so, I used a simple cgi
program to check if the directory is allowed to execute cgi, and the
simple program worked so that's not the problem. But as I said when I try
to execute the url, I see the program as if I check it with the
command cat...

Has this problem been solved before, It is in the mailman-users archives? 

If so, please let me know... Any info will be _really_ appreciated.


Best regards to all,

David Ramirez Joya
--
=====================================================================
	David Ramirez Joya		Depto. de Informatica
	  System Manager		Servicios de Internet
 	  Servidor Osos			FIME -- UANL
     dramirez at gama.fime.uanl.mx		Tel.: 83 29 40 20 Ext. 5721





From ewilts at ewilts.org  Wed Jun 13 01:02:49 2001
From: ewilts at ewilts.org (Ed Wilts)
Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 18:02:49 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Instability of Mailman or ?
In-Reply-To: <p05001913b74c01f6a2f3@[24.6.175.99]>
References: <p05001913b74c01f6a2f3@[24.6.175.99]>
Message-ID: <01061218024916.24130@linux1.ewilts.org>

On Tuesday 12 June 2001 12:45 pm, Louiza wrote:
> Is Mailman 2.0.1 that unstable or is it my webhost's servers -- every
> week I have to contact them for support for something that has gone
> wrong with my list. Today, again, no mail is being delivered. :(

mailman maintains logs of what it's doing, and that combined with the mail 
logs, will tell you exactly where the problem is.  I can tell you that I have 
yet to see mailman be guilty of any mail not flowing through my system.

> I really like using the Mailman software, but the reliability issues
> are starting to wear me down.

Any other mailing list software on an unreliable platform will also wear you 
down.

-- 
Ed Wilts, Mounds View, MN, USA
mailto:ewilts at ewilts.org



From sunbts at yahoo.com  Wed Jun 13 06:20:35 2001
From: sunbts at yahoo.com (joseph eugene)
Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 21:20:35 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] test mail
Message-ID: <20010613042035.24632.qmail@web11008.mail.yahoo.com>

test mail

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 
a year!  http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/



From sunbts at yahoo.com  Wed Jun 13 06:30:40 2001
From: sunbts at yahoo.com (joseph eugene)
Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 21:30:40 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] test-mail
Message-ID: <20010613043040.47493.qmail@web11005.mail.yahoo.com>

test-mail

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 
a year!  http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/



From louiza at home.com  Wed Jun 13 07:17:55 2001
From: louiza at home.com (Louiza)
Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 22:17:55 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Instability of Mailman or ?
In-Reply-To: <CF8E50F639267A448696655B7465DA4A063D4A@rachael.letnet.net>
References: <CF8E50F639267A448696655B7465DA4A063D4A@rachael.letnet.net>
Message-ID: <p05001928b74ca433c111@[24.6.175.99]>

At 2:43 PM -0500 6/12/01, Mark Roedel wrote:

>Do your support staff give you any idea what the problem was, or what
>they had to do to correct it?

No. They never have, even though I do ask.

>   That might give us something to go on in
>identifying where, exactly, the problem lies.

I know. I'm sorry. I am just frustrated. I finally got a reply to my 
support ticket that I opened this morning and the fellow said he 
created a test list at my website and it seemed to be working "just 
fine". Trouble is, I'd bet he did not set up a list of 300 members, 
which would better match my mailing list.

>
>I've been running Mailman since the 2.0betas, and haven't had any
>ongoing stability problems, although I'll admit I don't have any
>particularly high-traffic lists at the moment.  And I don't see anything
>in the changelog since 2.0.1 that looks like it was meant to address the
>sort of issue you seem to be describing (although you certainly haven't
>given much in the way of detail upon which to make that judgment...)

True. The list in question only has 300 members, but it's a pretty 
active bunch of posters. :) Today's problem is simply that the mail 
is not being delivered. I have heard from several regular posters 
that they've received no mail in the past 24 hours. I haven't 
received any either, although I've sent in about 10 posts throughout 
the day.

Last week, some members were complaining of missing mail. I was 
missing some too and could tell by reading replies to posts.

Two weeks ago, I could not get into the Admin. pages nor the info 
page for the list.

About a week after the list was created and up and running, a digest 
got stuck in the mail queue and the looping filled some members boxes 
with up to 500 copies of the same digest. That was a lovely mess! ;)

I don't have access to any other information to try and solve 
problems, not even a log file.

>Mailman does website archiving as well, if it's configured to do so.

Yes, and that's the other interesting thing -- there is mail showing 
up in the Archives for today.

>You'd still be without the web-based posting, but I'd venture that it
>might be better than nothing.

Well, true, it would be better than nothing, but using the Archives 
to post from is cumbersome.

Thanks for your input!

Regards,

Louiza



From louiza at home.com  Wed Jun 13 07:21:30 2001
From: louiza at home.com (Louiza)
Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 22:21:30 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Instability of Mailman or ?
In-Reply-To: <01061218024916.24130@linux1.ewilts.org>
References: <p05001913b74c01f6a2f3@[24.6.175.99]>
 <01061218024916.24130@linux1.ewilts.org>
Message-ID: <p05001929b74ca80fa938@[24.6.175.99]>

At 6:02 PM -0500 6/12/01, Ed Wilts wrote:

>mailman maintains logs of what it's doing, and that combined with the mail
>logs, will tell you exactly where the problem is.  I can tell you that I have
>yet to see mailman be guilty of any mail not flowing through my system.

Yes, but the problem is that I am not allowed access to any logs. The 
way my webhost has Mailman set up is that I can create mailing lists, 
configure them, and manage the subscriptions, but that's about as far 
as it goes.

>Any other mailing list software on an unreliable platform will also wear you
>down.

I know. I realize that it's probably a problem with the webhost.

Thanks for trying to help. :)

Louiza



From enriko.groen at netivity.nl  Wed Jun 13 09:25:40 2001
From: enriko.groen at netivity.nl (Enriko Groen)
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 09:25:40 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] This is unixstuff warning
Message-ID: <510EAC2065C0D311929200A0247252622F77FE@NETIVITY-FS>

Heyhey,

Wouldn't it be good to state that Mailman is for Unix servers only in the
beginning of the websites pages?
I think it would bounce of a few dozen of people who subscribe to this list
and will get disapointed anyway.
And frustrated too because they get 70 emails or so a day and don't know how
to leave the list.

Just an idea...

--
Enriko Groen, Hosting manager
--------------------------------------------------------
netivity bv   www.netivity.nl   enriko.groen at netivity.nl
038 - 850 1000   van nagellstraat 4      8011 eb  zwolle
--------------------------------------------------------
 



From enriko.groen at netivity.nl  Wed Jun 13 09:12:44 2001
From: enriko.groen at netivity.nl (Enriko Groen)
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 09:12:44 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Instability of Mailman or ?
Message-ID: <510EAC2065C0D311929200A0247252622F77FB@NETIVITY-FS>


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Louiza [mailto:louiza at home.com]

> Yes, but the problem is that I am not allowed access to any logs. The 
> way my webhost has Mailman set up is that I can create mailing lists, 
> configure them, and manage the subscriptions, but that's about as far 
> as it goes.

You could check on logs/smtp in de mailman directory. I think that logs
until responsebility for the mails is given to the local MTA. 

--
Enriko Groen, Hosting manager
--------------------------------------------------------
netivity bv   www.netivity.nl   enriko.groen at netivity.nl
038 - 850 1000   van nagellstraat 4      8011 eb  zwolle
--------------------------------------------------------
 



From enriko.groen at netivity.nl  Wed Jun 13 09:38:44 2001
From: enriko.groen at netivity.nl (Enriko Groen)
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 09:38:44 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Subscriptions
Message-ID: <510EAC2065C0D311929200A0247252622F77FF@NETIVITY-FS>


> From: Mike Smith [mailto:MSmith at Intelligentsolutions.co.uk]

> Could you remove all traces of 
> xxxxxxx at intelligentsolutions.co.uk from your
> system or i will be forced to block your address. This means you will
> receive an administrative mail each time you try to send us a mail
> 
> Mike Smith
> IT Department
> MBA Intelligent Solutions
> MSmith at IntelligentSolutions.co.uk

Somehow I can't stand quoting this Monty Python (!) line:

"Pray that there's intelligent life somewhere out in space,
'cause there's bugger all down here on Earth!"

--
Enriko Groen, Hosting manager
--------------------------------------------------------
netivity bv   www.netivity.nl   enriko.groen at netivity.nl
038 - 850 1000   van nagellstraat 4      8011 eb  zwolle
--------------------------------------------------------
 



From jakes at leet.org  Wed Jun 13 10:48:49 2001
From: jakes at leet.org (David Jacobson)
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 10:48:49 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mass unsubscribe
Message-ID: <20010613104849.A1099@jakes.ensquared.com>

Hey,

Is there a way to mass unsubscribe users? eg from the bounce log file?

Regards,
-- 
David Jacobson
Linux Administrator
ENSQUARED
Tel:  +27 11 788 8445
Fax:  +27 11 405 6424
Cell: +27 83 235 0760
Visit us @ : www.ensquared.com




From ewilts at ewilts.org  Wed Jun 13 13:38:00 2001
From: ewilts at ewilts.org (Ed Wilts)
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 06:38:00 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] This is unixstuff warning
In-Reply-To: <510EAC2065C0D311929200A0247252622F77FE@NETIVITY-FS>
References: <510EAC2065C0D311929200A0247252622F77FE@NETIVITY-FS>
Message-ID: <0106130638001C.24130@linux1.ewilts.org>

On Wednesday 13 June 2001 02:25 am, Enriko Groen wrote:

> And frustrated too because they get 70 emails or so a day and don't know
> how to leave the list.

All they have to do is to display the headers of one of the mail messages.  
The unsubscribe information is in there.  

	.../Ed
-- 
Ed Wilts, Mounds View, MN, USA
mailto:ewilts at ewilts.org



From barry at digicool.com  Wed Jun 13 15:53:17 2001
From: barry at digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 09:53:17 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Instability of Mailman or ?
References: <p05001913b74c01f6a2f3@[24.6.175.99]>
	<01061218024916.24130@linux1.ewilts.org>
	<p05001929b74ca80fa938@[24.6.175.99]>
Message-ID: <15143.28749.761011.692928@anthem.wooz.org>

>>>>> "L" == Louiza  <louiza at home.com> writes:

    L> Yes, but the problem is that I am not allowed access to any
    L> logs. The way my webhost has Mailman set up is that I can
    L> create mailing lists, configure them, and manage the
    L> subscriptions, but that's about as far as it goes.

You're probably not going to get much farther without access to at
least logs/error to see if you're getting tracebacks.  Also, your
webhost should check for stale locks that might be gumming up that
particular list (if other lists are getting messages).  Have them look
and see if qfiles/ is filling up or not.

Be sure they're running 2.0.5, which has a fix to avoid stale locks
under some situations when a user hits the `Stop' button on their
browser.

And even a very active 300 member list isn't that big.  We certainly
have more traffic on the {python,zope}.org site, and we've been
humming along nicely.  I wouldn't even call {python,zope}.org a big
site for Mailman.

Cheers,
-Barry



From david.bengtsson at framfab.se  Wed Jun 13 15:53:47 2001
From: david.bengtsson at framfab.se (David Bengtsson)
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 15:53:47 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Start archiving an 'old' list
Message-ID: <364683A0465BD511A08F00508BCF9B0517AB5E@GBGREG001>

Dear gurus,

My archive is up and running for a couple of lists, but I have one list
that's not been archived. The question is how I create the directorys I need
to start archive this specific list.

If I take a look in my ~mailman/archives/private/ folder it looks like this:
(list1 is up and archiving ok)

list1/
	2001-June/  2001-June.txt  2001-June.txt.gz  database/  index.html
pipermail.pck
list1.mbox/
	list1.mbox


(list2 is NOT archiving and looks just like this)

list2.mbox/

I have tried the obvious, just to turn on archiving in the webinterface, but
without result. There has been some posting to the list after I turned
archiving on in the webinterface. 

Any clues?

 Blue Skies,
 /David








From barry at digicool.com  Wed Jun 13 15:56:07 2001
From: barry at digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 09:56:07 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] This is unixstuff warning
References: <510EAC2065C0D311929200A0247252622F77FE@NETIVITY-FS>
Message-ID: <15143.28919.923530.284418@anthem.wooz.org>

>>>>> "EG" == Enriko Groen <enriko.groen at netivity.nl> writes:

    EG> Wouldn't it be good to state that Mailman is for Unix servers
    EG> only in the beginning of the websites pages?  I think it would
    EG> bounce of a few dozen of people who subscribe to this list and
    EG> will get disapointed anyway.  And frustrated too because they
    EG> get 70 emails or so a day and don't know how to leave the
    EG> list.

The first sentence under the "Requirements, Download" section of
www.list.org states:

    Mailman currently runs only on Unix-y systems, such as Linux,
    Solaris, *BSD, etc.

How can you do more than that? ;)

-Barry



From ronphelps at CentralVa.Net  Mon Jun 11 16:19:02 2001
From: ronphelps at CentralVa.Net (ron)
Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 10:19:02 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: Mailman-Users digest, Vol 1 #1257 - 16 msgs
References: <E15A53M-0003O7-00@mail.python.org>
Message-ID: <3B24D356.107B79A8@centralva.net>

hey guys
I was trying to set up my list to be like this list
ie

From: mailman-users-request at python.org
Reply-To: mailman-users at python.org
To: mailman-users at python.org

every time i send a message to voices at millionnursemarch.org
it goes into the moderation section and i have to approve it..
this is not what i want.
i simply want the email to go to the list with a reply to the list
and an email of the sender so one can email them privately if they want
i can't seem to get the settings right to do this
what are those settings??

the reason is always the same each time i send to that list
Reason:
 Message has implicit destination
help
thanks
ron





From mailman at vo.cnchost.com  Wed Jun 13 16:53:07 2001
From: mailman at vo.cnchost.com (JC Dill)
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 07:53:07 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] This is unixstuff warning
In-Reply-To: <0106130638001C.24130@linux1.ewilts.org>
References: <510EAC2065C0D311929200A0247252622F77FE@NETIVITY-FS>
 <510EAC2065C0D311929200A0247252622F77FE@NETIVITY-FS>
Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010613074520.035cde20@pop3.vo.cnchost.com>

On 04:38 AM 6/13/01, Ed Wilts wrote:
 >On Wednesday 13 June 2001 02:25 am, Enriko Groen wrote:
 >
 >> And frustrated too because they get 70 emails or so a day and don't know
 >> how to leave the list.
 >
 >All they have to do is to display the headers of one of the mail messages.
 >The unsubscribe information is in there.

There are too many people on the Internet these days who CAN NOT view all 
the message headers.  AOL hides many headers.  Hotmail hides many 
headers.  Yahoo hides many headers.  Even if there is some process the user 
can go through to eventually view all the headers, someone who wants to 
just stop receiving 70 mails a day is just going to start whining (to the 
list!) "how do I get off this list, I can't handle all this email!"  They 
are NOT motivated to figure out how to "view all the headers" to get that 
information.

IMHO, unsubscription information needs to be in the *body* of the email (in 
a footer), for two reasons:  1) so people see it when they are actively 
reading the list and thus will hopefully remember it's there later, when 
they want to unsub, and 2) so people can readily find it when they do want 
to unsub.

I subscribe to the "teach them to fish" method, and if someone emails me 
(as the list admin) or to a list that has the footer, I point them to the 
footer and say "follow those instructions, if you have problems email back 
and say *exactly* what problems you have".  This works about 90% of the 
time.  The biggest case where it doesn't work is where the subscriber has 
(or had) more than one email address and can't remember what address they 
used to subscribe, and they are trying to unsub the wrong address.  Or 
trying to unsub from a list when they are subscribed to the digest (a 
problem with the one list I manage that's still on majordomo).

jc




From luser at ahab.com  Wed Jun 13 16:55:12 2001
From: luser at ahab.com (JT)
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 10:55:12 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Subscriptions
In-Reply-To: <510EAC2065C0D311929200A0247252622F77FF@NETIVITY-FS>; from enriko.groen@netivity.nl on Wed, Jun 13, 2001 at 09:38:44AM +0200
References: <510EAC2065C0D311929200A0247252622F77FF@NETIVITY-FS>
Message-ID: <20010613105512.A11445@zed.unbeat.com>

Don't worry, I put the odds at 50/50 that this poor sap will unblock
the address (whichever one it actually is) once his end users complain
about not getting their mailing lists ;-)

Equally likely situations: he has *multiple* users too dumb to figure
out how to unsubscribe (sad), or else he has "detected spam" with some POS
"security software" that raised an alert based on the number of
messages coming from an address (very sad).

On Wed, Jun 13, 2001 at 09:38:44AM +0200, Enriko Groen wrote:
> 
> 
> > From: Mike Smith [mailto:MSmith at Intelligentsolutions.co.uk]
> 
> > Could you remove all traces of 
> > xxxxxxx at intelligentsolutions.co.uk from your
> > system or i will be forced to block your address. This means you will
> > receive an administrative mail each time you try to send us a mail
> > 
> > Mike Smith
> > IT Department
> > MBA Intelligent Solutions
> > MSmith at IntelligentSolutions.co.uk
> 
> Somehow I can't stand quoting this Monty Python (!) line:
> 
> "Pray that there's intelligent life somewhere out in space,
> 'cause there's bugger all down here on Earth!"
> 
> --
> Enriko Groen, Hosting manager
> --------------------------------------------------------
> netivity bv   www.netivity.nl   enriko.groen at netivity.nl
> 038 - 850 1000   van nagellstraat 4      8011 eb  zwolle
> --------------------------------------------------------
>  
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users maillist  -  Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users



From tyler at beloit.edu  Wed Jun 13 17:05:00 2001
From: tyler at beloit.edu (Tim Tyler)
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 10:05:00 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] remove_members -a listname?
Message-ID: <4.3.1.0.20010613100019.00c22b80@beloit.edu>

mailman,
    Since the remove_members command is owned by mailman, it appears it can 
only be run by the site manager.  Is it possible for a list owner to run 
this command or some other variation for his list only? -perhaps via an 
email command?

Tim Tyler
Network Engineer - Beloit College
tyler at beloit.edu




From mailman at vo.cnchost.com  Wed Jun 13 17:08:16 2001
From: mailman at vo.cnchost.com (JC Dill)
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 08:08:16 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] This is unixstuff warning
Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010613080805.046d5790@pop3.vo.cnchost.com>

On 06:56 AM 6/13/01, Barry A. Warsaw wrote:
 >
 >>>>>> "EG" == Enriko Groen <enriko.groen at netivity.nl> writes:
 >
 >    EG> Wouldn't it be good to state that Mailman is for Unix servers
 >    EG> only in the beginning of the websites pages?  I think it would
 >    EG> bounce of a few dozen of people who subscribe to this list and
 >    EG> will get disapointed anyway.  And frustrated too because they
 >    EG> get 70 emails or so a day and don't know how to leave the
 >    EG> list.
 >
 >The first sentence under the "Requirements, Download" section of
 >www.list.org states:
 >
 >    Mailman currently runs only on Unix-y systems, such as Linux,
 >    Solaris, *BSD, etc.
 >
 >How can you do more than that? ;)


	Put it on the home page.


In the first section.  Incorporate it into either the first or second 
paragraphs.  (Or add a third paragraph to that section.)

Example A:

Mailman is software to help manage electronic mail discussion lists, much 
like Majordomo or Smartmail. Mailman gives each mailing list a unique web 
page and allows users to subscribe, unsubscribe, and change their account 
options via email or over the web. The list manager can administer his or 
her list entirely via the web if desired. Mailman has most of the features 
that people want in a mailing list management system, including built-in 
archiving, mail-to-news gateways, spam filters, bounce detection, digest 
delivery, and so on. Runs on most Un*x-like systems, compatible with most 
web servers and browsers, and most SMTP servers. See the features page for 
more detail.


Example B:

Mailman is free software. It is distributed under the GNU General Public 
License. The canonical Mailman home page is at 
www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman.html, with more information available 
at www.list.org. Mailman is written in the Python programming language, 
with a little bit of C code for security. Runs on most Un*x-like systems, 
compatible with most web servers and browsers, and most SMTP servers.


jc (posted and emailed) 




From chuqui at plaidworks.com  Wed Jun 13 17:37:09 2001
From: chuqui at plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach)
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 08:37:09 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Subscriptions
In-Reply-To: <20010613105512.A11445@zed.unbeat.com>
Message-ID: <200106131535.f5DFZU422575@lists.apple.com>

when I get one of these -- I do it.

If a user complains when they get the unsub note -- I simply refer them 
to their admin, since he told me to.

It's his domain. I see no reason to second-guess him, or waste time 
arguing with him. If he's an idiot, better off he's idioting elsewhere.


On Wednesday, June 13, 2001, at 07:55 AM, JT wrote:

> Equally likely situations: he has *multiple* users too dumb to figure
> out how to unsubscribe (sad),

>>> Could you remove all traces of
>>> xxxxxxx at intelligentsolutions.co.uk from your
>>> system or i will be forced to block your address.

Chuq Von Rospach, Internet Gnome <http://www.chuqui.com>
[<chuqui at plaidworks.com> = <me at chuqui.com> = <chuq at apple.com>]
Yes, yes, I've finally finished my home page. Lucky you.

How about never?  Is never good for you?




From chuqui at plaidworks.com  Wed Jun 13 17:44:14 2001
From: chuqui at plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach)
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 08:44:14 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] This is unixstuff warning
In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20010613074520.035cde20@pop3.vo.cnchost.com>
Message-ID: <200106131542.f5DFgZ423215@lists.apple.com>

On Wednesday, June 13, 2001, at 07:53 AM, JC Dill wrote:

> I subscribe to the "teach them to fish" method,

I used to. Now I'm in the "parents don't want justice, they want quiet" 
mode, and I do what's fastest and easiest for me, which is usually to 
just unsubscribe them. I've had one too many battle with the "don't talk 
to me about instructions, you do it" school of "you run this, you're my 
slave" idiots.

of course, I'm also mothballing a bunch of my stuff and going on 
sabbatical because I'm tired and burned out, too -- and the growing 
number of people who won't follow instructions (as opposed to can't) is 
one of the reason... So these people will simply whine and complain at 
me for having the audacity of taking their toys away instead....

(if people care, details on my personal site... I won't bore you).

I think the "teach them to fish" mode worked in earlier days. Today, too 
many people feel everyone else owes them whatever they want.


--
Chuq Von Rospach, Internet Gnome <http://www.chuqui.com>
[<chuqui at plaidworks.com> = <me at chuqui.com> = <chuq at apple.com>]
Yes, yes, I've finally finished my home page. Lucky you.

Stress is when you wake up screaming and you realize you haven't fallen 
asleep yet.






From canario.joe at teleline.es  Wed Jun 13 18:39:51 2001
From: canario.joe at teleline.es (CJoe)
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 16:39:51 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] keep formated text ?
Message-ID: <4910242298.20010613163951@teleline.es>

Dear  all,  I  am  truly  amazed  by the features incorporated to
MAILMAN    ...    its    functionality   is   like   the   very
expensive/commercial LSoft's Listserv ...

I upload (to auto-responses) formated text like this:

  I  have  a  quick question: it is possible to maintain the text
  formated   in   the   auto-response   and   other   texts  sent
  automatically by MAILMAN ?

And MAILMAN sends out something like this:

I  have  a  quick question: it is possible to maintain the
text formated in the auto-response   and  other texts sent automatically by
MAILMAN ?


which looks pretty bad ... (I like to keep text justified).

Any workaround to get autoresponses, etc. justified and nice ?

cheers,


canario.joe at teleline.es
___





From pug at pug.net  Wed Jun 13 18:22:40 2001
From: pug at pug.net (Pug Bainter)
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 11:22:40 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Digests getting the wrong reply-to/from address...
Message-ID: <20010613112240.A13707@stardock.pug.net>

Good Morning,

  On some of my digests (I haven't verified all of them) I've noticed a
  problem that the return address is the listname-request instead of the
  listname. This causes problems when people reply to them.

  Where is this setting and what can I do to fix it?

Ciao,

-- 
Pug Bainter                                        |        AMD, Inc.
System Engineer, MTS                               |      Mail Stop 625
 Pug.Bainter at amd.com      |  pug at pug.net           |  5900 E. Ben White Blvd
 Phone: (512) 602-0364    |  Fax: (512) 602-6970   |     Austin, TX 78741
Note: The views may not reflect my employers, or even my own for that matter.



From satyap at satya.virtualave.net  Wed Jun 13 17:17:04 2001
From: satyap at satya.virtualave.net (Satya)
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 20:47:04 +0530 (IST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] This is unixstuff warning
In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20010613074520.035cde20@pop3.vo.cnchost.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0106132045070.2257-100000@hal9k.myip.org>

On Jun 13, 2001 at 07:53, JC Dill wrote:

>There are too many people on the Internet these days who CAN NOT view all 
>the message headers.  AOL hides many headers.  Hotmail hides many 
>headers.  Yahoo hides many headers.  Even if there is some process the user 

Opposite of what some others want.

The software that hides so many headers with no way of viewing them is
broken.

>IMHO, unsubscription information needs to be in the *body* of the email (in 
>a footer), for two reasons:  1) so people see it when they are actively 
>reading the list and thus will hopefully remember it's there later, when 
>they want to unsub, and 2) so people can readily find it when they do want 
>to unsub.

The whiners still whine about it.

-- 
Satya. <URL:http://satya.virtualave.net/>
US-bound grad students! For pre-apps, see <URL:http://quickapps.cjb.net/>
My reality check just bounced.




From mailman at vo.cnchost.com  Wed Jun 13 18:55:05 2001
From: mailman at vo.cnchost.com (JC Dill)
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 09:55:05 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] This is unixstuff warning
In-Reply-To: <200106131542.f5DFgZ423215@lists.apple.com>
References: <5.0.0.25.2.20010613074520.035cde20@pop3.vo.cnchost.com>
Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010613095013.03a40d80@pop3.vo.cnchost.com>

On 08:44 AM 6/13/01, Chuq Von Rospach wrote:
 >
 >On Wednesday, June 13, 2001, at 07:53 AM, JC Dill wrote:
 >
 >> I subscribe to the "teach them to fish" method,
 >
 >I used to. Now I'm in the "parents don't want justice, they want quiet"
 >mode, and I do what's fastest and easiest for me, which is usually to

Which means that they will expect ME to do the same when they come to my 
list.  And that's probably why they expect it from you too, in the first 
place, because some guy before you (at a previous list) also did their 
unsubbing for them, instead of teaching them how.

At some point they *have* to learn to do this for themselves.  Why are you 
not willing to do your part to help them learn, and leave it to the rest of 
us to educate them???  All it takes is a boilerplate message, apply via 
cut-n-paste or have it as stationary or a .sig.


 >just unsubscribe them. I've had one too many battle with the "don't talk
 >to me about instructions, you do it" school of "you run this, you're my
 >slave" idiots.

 >I think the "teach them to fish" mode worked in earlier days. Today, too
 >many people feel everyone else owes them whatever they want.

I don't let clueless newbies tell me what they want me to do for 
them.  Period.  Occasionally someone tries to boss me around and gets 
roasted for their efforts.  I bet they won't try that again with the next 
list admin...  And if it keeps them off mailing lists entirely (go use some 
web board then), all the better.  If they don't care to learn netiquette 
and exhibit decent manners then mailing lists are better off without them.

jc




From mailman at vo.cnchost.com  Wed Jun 13 18:59:30 2001
From: mailman at vo.cnchost.com (JC Dill)
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 09:59:30 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] This is unixstuff warning
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0106132045070.2257-100000@hal9k.myip.org>
References: <5.0.0.25.2.20010613074520.035cde20@pop3.vo.cnchost.com>
Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010613095627.0472e9e0@pop3.vo.cnchost.com>

On 08:17 AM 6/13/01, Satya wrote:
 >On Jun 13, 2001 at 07:53, JC Dill wrote:
 >
 >>There are too many people on the Internet these days who CAN NOT view all
 >>the message headers.  AOL hides many headers.  Hotmail hides many
 >>headers.  Yahoo hides many headers.  Even if there is some process the user
 >
 >Opposite of what some others want.
 >
 >The software that hides so many headers with no way of viewing them is
 >broken.

Yes, and AOL 6 is broken in that it doesn't (easily) let the sender send in 
Plain Text.  If 20% of your users use AOL 6, what are you going to 
do?  Whine that their software is broken, or install demime?

Which one will be the faster fix?

I'm all for griping at stupid software designers, but sometimes you need to 
design a solution on your end to deal with the stupid decisions made at the 
other end.

A footer with unsub information is a damn sight better than all the ads 
from ad supported lists.  I'm on a listbot list that I'm preparing to host 
just because I'm fed up with all the ads!

jc




From MarkRoedel at letu.edu  Wed Jun 13 18:59:46 2001
From: MarkRoedel at letu.edu (Mark Roedel)
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 11:59:46 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Subscriptions
Message-ID: <CF8E50F639267A448696655B7465DA4A063D4C@rachael.letnet.net>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Chuq Von Rospach [mailto:chuqui at plaidworks.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2001 10:37 AM
> To: JT
> Cc: Chuq Von Rospach; Enriko Groen; 'mailman-users at python.org'
> Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Subscriptions
> 
> 
> when I get one of these -- I do it.
> 
> If a user complains when they get the unsub note -- I simply 
> refer them to their admin, since he told me to.
> 
> It's his domain. I see no reason to second-guess him, or waste
> time arguing with him. If he's an idiot, better off he's idioting 
> elsewhere.

When I get a request that provides me with specific addresses to remove,
I'll do my best to comply.  If it's something more along the lines of
the below, I might do it if I'm someplace where I've got convenient
access to the commandline tools, but it's simply not a productive use of
an admin's time (especially when we're talking about larger lists) to go
combing through the web membership management screens for every
subscribed address within a domain, and it's certainly not reasonable to
expect he'll know about every address that happens to get forwarded or
redirected into a final destination.
 
>>>> Could you remove all traces of
>>>> xxxxxxx at intelligentsolutions.co.uk from your
>>>> system or i will be forced to block your address.


---
Mark Roedel (roedelm at letu.edu) | "There cannot be a crisis next week.
Systems Programmer / WebMaster |  My schedule is already full."
     LeTourneau University     |                   -- Henry Kissinger 



From chuqui at plaidworks.com  Wed Jun 13 19:19:57 2001
From: chuqui at plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach)
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 10:19:57 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Subscriptions
In-Reply-To: <CF8E50F639267A448696655B7465DA4A063D4C@rachael.letnet.net>
Message-ID: <200106131718.f5DHIH401816@lists.apple.com>

On Wednesday, June 13, 2001, at 09:59 AM, Mark Roedel wrote:

> When I get a request that provides me with specific addresses to remove,
> I'll do my best to comply.

When mailman actually puts the subscribed address somewhere in the 
message where the admin can find it -- then you can blame the admin for 
not giving it to you. For a lot of domains, *@foo.bar.blatz is forwarded 
to a single mailbox, and they don't have any way of finding out what the 
address is.

Sorry, but mailman's not innocent of issues here.


--
Chuq Von Rospach, Internet Gnome <http://www.chuqui.com>
[<chuqui at plaidworks.com> = <me at chuqui.com> = <chuq at apple.com>]
Yes, yes, I've finally finished my home page. Lucky you.

   To the optimist, the glass is half full.
   To the pessimist, the glass is half empty.
   To the engineer, the glass is twice as big as it needs to be.





From claw at kanga.nu  Wed Jun 13 19:22:59 2001
From: claw at kanga.nu (J C Lawrence)
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 10:22:59 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Subscriptions 
In-Reply-To: Message from Chuq Von Rospach <chuqui@plaidworks.com> 
   of "Wed, 13 Jun 2001 08:37:09 PDT." <200106131535.f5DFZU422575@lists.apple.com> 
References: <200106131535.f5DFZU422575@lists.apple.com> 
Message-ID: <6091.992452979@kanga.nu>

On Wed, 13 Jun 2001 08:37:09 -0700 
Chuq Von Rospach <chuqui at plaidworks.com> wrote:

> when I get one of these -- I do it.  If a user complains when they
> get the unsub note -- I simply refer them to their admin, since he
> told me to.

I have a short almost canned paragraph I roll out:

  Due to security and privacy considerations this is one of those
  things that is easier for you to do than me.  Just visit the list
  page, plug your subscription address in at the bottom, and there's
  an option on the next page to unsubscribe.  If you don't know your
  subscription address, please check the welcome message that was
  sent to you when you subscribed.  If you don't have that, the
  list will email your subscription address to you on the first of
  every month.

Once, I've had one guy come back and threaten to jut bounce
everything from my domain, and to thus deliberately try to setup
mail loops.

  He thought he had the faster connection.  He also thought he could
  make mail-loops onto my lists.  Neither were true.

Next day he figured out how to unsubscribe.

I run lists to offer a service in areas I'm interested in for some
reason.  I don't run lists to handhold or educate people who are not
interested in those same areas.  

> It's his domain. I see no reason to second-guess him, or waste
> time arguing with him. If he's an idiot, better off he's idioting
> elsewhere.

I once got a forged request from an admin requesting such a
domain-wide unsub that was in fact written as a prank by a "friend"
of the real admin.  I dropped the domain.  The real admin wasn't
pleased (but understood).  I wasn't pleased and couldn't be bothered
to let myself be put in the same position again, or to spend the
effort checking individual requests to make sure they weren't
forged.  Not my job.  Not my interest.

Let them figure it out.  

I understand that this works less well when under a corporate face
with market presence, branding, support and perception concerns.

-- 
J C Lawrence                                       claw at kanga.nu
---------(*)                          http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/
The pressure to survive and rhetoric may make strange bedfellows



From chuqui at plaidworks.com  Wed Jun 13 19:29:16 2001
From: chuqui at plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach)
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 10:29:16 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] This is unixstuff warning
In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20010613095013.03a40d80@pop3.vo.cnchost.com>
Message-ID: <200106131727.f5DHRZ402612@lists.apple.com>

On Wednesday, June 13, 2001, at 09:55 AM, JC Dill wrote:

> Which means that they will expect ME to do the same when they come to 
> my list.

You don't have to kvetch at me over this. I know this. I've been on the 
net for 20 years now, teaching people how to fish. I've taught enough 
people to fish to empty the oceans. I'm sorry I don't have the time, 
energy or interest to keep teaching. If that means I fall short of your 
expectations, oh well. I've been doing the education schtick since most 
people on this list were in diapers (I wrote the first usenet manners 
guide back in 1984, and coined the term netiquette).

And, you know what? there are still a lot of people who want you to 
catch it and cook it for you.

right now, I just don't have enough of me left to keep sharing it with 
others. You go ahead -- it's a good thing to do. But I've been doing it 
long enough that I think I've earned doing what's best for me for a 
while, and not always being told to do what everyone else wants out of 
me.

> At some point they *have* to learn to do this for themselves.

why?

>  Why are you not willing to do your part to help them learn, and leave 
> it to the rest of us to educate them???

You can start here:

<http://www.chuqui.com/cgi-bin/mwf/topic_show.pl?tid=103>

You're saying I'm not allowed to not do it that way?

>   All it takes is a boilerplate message, apply via cut-n-paste or have 
> it as stationary or a .sig.
>

I invented most of those techniques. You ignore the basic reality that 
I'm resigning from the position of internet nanny. The hours are long, 
the benefits suck, the kids are colicky and I've done my time. you have 
fun.

>
> I don't let clueless newbies tell me what they want me to do for them.

good for you. Let's see if you still have that compassionate enthusiasm 
in 15 years.


--
Chuq Von Rospach, Internet Gnome <http://www.chuqui.com>
[<chuqui at plaidworks.com> = <me at chuqui.com> = <chuq at apple.com>]
Yes, yes, I've finally finished my home page. Lucky you.

Yes, I am an agent of Satan, but my duties
are largely ceremonial.





From satyap at satya.virtualave.net  Wed Jun 13 19:01:50 2001
From: satyap at satya.virtualave.net (Satya)
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 22:31:50 +0530 (IST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] This is unixstuff warning
In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20010613080805.046d5790@pop3.vo.cnchost.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0106132227400.2595-100000@hal9k.myip.org>

On Jun 13, 2001 at 08:08, JC Dill wrote:

>On 06:56 AM 6/13/01, Barry A. Warsaw wrote:
> >The first sentence under the "Requirements, Download" section of
> >    Mailman currently runs only on Unix-y systems, such as Linux,

>	Put it on the home page.

Not a bad idea, but the requirements section is the correct place to
have it. Else, one eventually puts *everything* on the home page.

Now come on, if you want to know if your system can run it, isn't
"Requirements" an obvious place to look?

That said, your example A is good. Perhaps the Requirements page can
have the details, like "you *can* run it on Windows if you also run a
proper Python interpreter and a proper SMTP server" (and anyhing
else -- unless there's something basic in the OS that Windows simply 
cannot provide. But then, this is an example.).

-- 
Satya. <URL:http://satya.virtualave.net/>
US-bound grad students! For pre-apps, see <URL:http://quickapps.cjb.net/>
Program too small to fit into memory.




From satyap at satya.virtualave.net  Wed Jun 13 19:39:43 2001
From: satyap at satya.virtualave.net (Satya)
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 23:09:43 +0530 (IST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] This is unixstuff warning
In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20010613095627.0472e9e0@pop3.vo.cnchost.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0106132308390.3135-100000@hal9k.myip.org>

On Jun 13, 2001 at 09:59, JC Dill wrote:

>On 08:17 AM 6/13/01, Satya wrote:
> >The software that hides so many headers with no way of viewing them is
> >broken.
>
>Yes, and AOL 6 is broken in that it doesn't (easily) let the sender send in 
>Plain Text.  If 20% of your users use AOL 6, what are you going to 
>do?  Whine that their software is broken, or install demime?

Understood. I'd install demime.

And I'll also be stubborn and say that AOL users constitute less than
1% of my users, so I shouldn't care.

-- 
Satya. <URL:http://satya.virtualave.net/>
US-bound grad students! For pre-apps, see <URL:http://quickapps.cjb.net/>
Reality is for people who can't handle Star Trek.




From mailman at vo.cnchost.com  Wed Jun 13 19:37:35 2001
From: mailman at vo.cnchost.com (JC Dill)
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 10:37:35 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman for Windows
In-Reply-To: <004101ce63c3$98c14aa0$8a51f7a5@z7w1h7>
Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010613103334.03ba63c0@pop3.vo.cnchost.com>

On 02:11 PM 6/7/13, Lars T. Soeftestad wrote:
>Hi Mailmen/women!
>
>Have loked at Mailman, and thought it would be perfect for my use. Which 
>is: a regular newsletter to people working on community-based natural 
>resource management (CBNRM), mostly in developing countries, as an adjunct 
>to the CBNRM Net portal website (<http://www.cbnrm.net>www.cbnrm.net) that 
>I operate.

According to netcraft.com:

The site www.cbnrm.net is running Apache/1.3.6 (Unix) mod_frontpage/3.0.4.3 
on Compaq Tru64.

You shouldn't have any problems running mailman on that server.

>Then, to my frustration, I read that Mailman is not available for Windows 
>(98 in my case). Really sad. Question: would you know of share/freeware 
>that does more or less the same as Mailman, and that is available for Windows?

Why can't you just run mailman on the same server your website is hosted 
on?  If this isn't allowed by your webhosting provider, I suggest moving 
your website to a host that does allow it, so that all of your site's 
services are hosted on one machine.  This makes it *much* easier to keep 
your site up and running than having services scattered all over the place 
on different platforms.

jc  (posted and emailed)




From arandall at auntminnie.com  Wed Jun 13 20:29:44 2001
From: arandall at auntminnie.com (Amanda)
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 11:29:44 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] This is unixstuff warning
References: <5.0.0.25.2.20010613074520.035cde20@pop3.vo.cnchost.com> <5.0.0.25.2.20010613095013.03a40d80@pop3.vo.cnchost.com>
Message-ID: <3B27B117.98A28BB1@auntminnie.com>

JC Dill wrote:

> I don't let clueless newbies tell me what they want me to do for
> them.  Period.  Occasionally someone tries to boss me around and gets
> roasted for their efforts.  I bet they won't try that again with the next
> list admin...  And if it keeps them off mailing lists entirely (go use some
> web board then), all the better.  If they don't care to learn netiquette
> and exhibit decent manners then mailing lists are better off without them.

Obviously your clueless ones are not your bread and butter. :-)  I deal with
doctors - and not just your typical family physicians, either, these are
hoity-toity specialists - and they sometimes really drive me batty. eg, They
call me by my first name, but expect me to address them as Dr. So-and-so. (I
don't play that game. If your first name is identified anywhere in your
message, I call you by your first name ... if not, you get mail addressed to
Dear Member) There's a big thing at the bottom of the daily letter that says
how to unsubscribe - but instead, they reply and say, Unsubscribe me or else.
(Or else what?, I'd like to know) Problem is, we walk a tightrope - can't be a
pushover and let them run amok, but can't go too far the other way and piss
them off, either, because ultimately it's their use of our stuff that pays our
paychecks.

What do I do? ::sigh:: Push the button and unsubscribe them.

Frankly, I don't have time to teach something technical to someone who's
leaving anyway. I spend my "teach them to fish" energy on the ones that stay.

What I want to know is, how can someone who runs filmless contrast-doppler
radiology equipment, or microneurosurgical tools, etc., complain that
unsubscribing from a freaking newsletter is "too technical" ?

:::grrrr:::


you are now returned to your regularly scheduled whining...
=)
Amanda





From alaric at babylon5.babcom.com  Wed Jun 13 20:38:58 2001
From: alaric at babylon5.babcom.com (Phil Stracchino)
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 11:38:58 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] This is unixstuff warning
In-Reply-To: <200106131542.f5DFgZ423215@lists.apple.com>; from chuqui@plaidworks.com on Wed, Jun 13, 2001 at 08:44:14AM -0700
References: <5.0.0.25.2.20010613074520.035cde20@pop3.vo.cnchost.com> <200106131542.f5DFgZ423215@lists.apple.com>
Message-ID: <20010613113858.B29763@babylon5.babcom.com>

On Wed, Jun 13, 2001 at 08:44:14AM -0700, Chuq Von Rospach wrote:
> I think the "teach them to fish" mode worked in earlier days. Today, too 
> many people feel everyone else owes them whatever they want.


It's all part of the culture of abdication of personal responsibility and
the nanny society.  They don't want you to teach them how to fish ...
learning is hard, and they might hurt themselves on the hook.  Someone
else should do it for them.  They don't want to *know* how to fish,
because if they know how to fish, someone might make them get their own
fish.  They just want to be given the damn fish already, and hey, get me
another beer while you're up, huh?  And you're not gonna make me clean and
cook that thing myself, are you?

</cynicism>

-- 
 Linux Now!   ..........Because friends don't let friends use Microsoft.
 phil stracchino   --   the renaissance man   --   mystic zen biker geek
    Vr00m:  2000 Honda CBR929RR   --   Cage:  2000 Dodge Intrepid R/T
 Previous vr00mage:  1986 VF500F (sold), 1991 VFR750F3 (foully murdered)



From chuqui at plaidworks.com  Wed Jun 13 20:46:41 2001
From: chuqui at plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach)
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 11:46:41 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] This is unixstuff warning
In-Reply-To: <20010613113858.B29763@babylon5.babcom.com>
Message-ID: <200106131845.f5DIj0409831@lists.apple.com>

On Wednesday, June 13, 2001, at 11:38 AM, Phil Stracchino wrote:

> They don't want you to teach them how to fish ...
> learning is hard, and they might hurt themselves on the hook.

many times, this really means we need improved fish hooks.

Frankly -- while list server software has made big improvements, much of 
the time, we forget that what's obvious to us as techies isn't to the 
people we're calling idiots. And is that their fault? Or ours, for 
building software that isn't easy to use by people who aren't techies?

As I noted earlier today when people were ripping the guy saying "just 
delete *@foo.bar" -- mailman doesn't give an admin any way to find what 
address a message is sent to, other than waiting for the monthly mailing 
(unless the mailman system has turned off monthly mailings; and when 
Barry rolls in the ability for a user to turn that off individually, 
THEN what?).

Is that the admins fault? No. He's working from the info we're giving 
him.

Is it the idiot's fault if they can't figure out how this stuff works? 
sometimes. But to assume it's always their fault -- go have your mother 
sign up for a bunch of mail lists and see how easy she finds it.


--
Chuq Von Rospach, Internet Gnome <http://www.chuqui.com>
[<chuqui at plaidworks.com> = <me at chuqui.com> = <chuq at apple.com>]
Yes, yes, I've finally finished my home page. Lucky you.

It's a thankless job, but I've got a lot of
Karma to burn off.





From alaric at babylon5.babcom.com  Wed Jun 13 21:08:56 2001
From: alaric at babylon5.babcom.com (Phil Stracchino)
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 12:08:56 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] This is unixstuff warning
In-Reply-To: <200106131845.f5DIj0409831@lists.apple.com>; from chuqui@plaidworks.com on Wed, Jun 13, 2001 at 11:46:41AM -0700
References: <20010613113858.B29763@babylon5.babcom.com> <200106131845.f5DIj0409831@lists.apple.com>
Message-ID: <20010613120856.D29763@babylon5.babcom.com>

On Wed, Jun 13, 2001 at 11:46:41AM -0700, Chuq Von Rospach wrote:
> 
> On Wednesday, June 13, 2001, at 11:38 AM, Phil Stracchino wrote:
> 
> > They don't want you to teach them how to fish ...
> > learning is hard, and they might hurt themselves on the hook.
> 
> Is it the idiot's fault if they can't figure out how this stuff works? 
> sometimes. But to assume it's always their fault -- go have your mother 
> sign up for a bunch of mail lists and see how easy she finds it.

Yes, this is very true, and I completely understand the situation of
someone who just plain doesn't understand.  What gets me frustrated is the
people who actively *don't want* to understand, because no matter how
simple it is, they want it done for them.  I got lots of this kind of crap
at my previous job, and it's one of the reasons I left.  They preferred to
make me drop whatever I was doing, leave my office and walk to the other
side of the building (and they knew I had leg injuries) and do it [for
various trivial values of "it"] for them each time they needed it done,
rather than pay attention for literally thirty seconds while I showed them
how to do it themselves next time.


Simple lack of understanding is, well, understandable, and more or less
excusable depending on various factors.  The combination of determined
ignorance and wilful laziness, IMHO, is not.  Someone who has difficulty
learning needs assistance; someone who refuses to learn because they'd
rather make someone else do it for them, needs a swift boot to the head.


-- 
 Linux Now!   ..........Because friends don't let friends use Microsoft.
 phil stracchino   --   the renaissance man   --   mystic zen biker geek
    Vr00m:  2000 Honda CBR929RR   --   Cage:  2000 Dodge Intrepid R/T
 Previous vr00mage:  1986 VF500F (sold), 1991 VFR750F3 (foully murdered)



From barry at digicool.com  Wed Jun 13 21:21:34 2001
From: barry at digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 15:21:34 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Digests getting the wrong reply-to/from address...
References: <20010613112240.A13707@stardock.pug.net>
Message-ID: <15143.48446.852371.395551@anthem.wooz.org>

>>>>> "PB" == Pug Bainter <pug at pug.net> writes:

    PB>   On some of my digests (I haven't verified all of them) I've
    PB> noticed a problem that the return address is the
    PB> listname-request instead of the listname. This causes problems
    PB> when people reply to them.

I believe the From: header gets set to the -request address, but a
Reply-To: is also inserted which points back to the list.  This is of
course, just for the outer digest message.

-Barry



From chuqui at plaidworks.com  Wed Jun 13 21:21:30 2001
From: chuqui at plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach)
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 12:21:30 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] This is unixstuff warning
In-Reply-To: <20010613120856.D29763@babylon5.babcom.com>
Message-ID: <200106131919.f5DJJo413865@lists.apple.com>

On Wednesday, June 13, 2001, at 12:08 PM, Phil Stracchino wrote:

> What gets me frustrated is the
> people who actively *don't want* to understand, because no matter how
> simple it is, they want it done for them

why is the internet supposed to be immune from real life? you've never 
seen people who are too busy/important to stand in line at a store? who 
are annoying/obnoxious/abusive to a clerk? Name your favorite poison -- 
jerks exist in real life, and the internet gets its share.

It's a small percentage of users. It's unfair to paint all users with 
that broad brush (but we do). We also shouldn't 'let the turkeys get us 
down' (but we do). But it's always important to try to separate the "we 
don't know" from the "we don't give a shit what you think", and treat 
them separately (but do we?)

> Simple lack of understanding is, well, understandable, and more or less
> excusable depending on various factors.  The combination of determined
> ignorance and wilful laziness, IMHO, is not.

So, how do you deal with each group? And perhaps more importantly, it 
seems like a good time to sit back and think about how mailman can be 
improved to better deal with both groups?

What can be done to clean up mailman's rough edges and make it easier ot 
use, especially by the end-user who's not a techie? where is the 
documentation weak? or missing? Where are the web pages unclear? What is 
non-intuitive? It's a damn good MLM -- what does it need to make it 
better?

and for the turkeys -- what kind of stuff can be written into mailman to 
minimize their ability to annoy/abuse admins and/or list members? How do 
you pull the fangs, or at least isolate them from the rest of humanity 
and/or stuff gags in their mouths? there are ways you can enable even 
THESE people, by giving them fewer and fewer excuses to rationalize away 
being jerks about it, and use technology to build a firewall between 
them and the poor schmucks they're abusing.

We're techies. Rather than complain about why non-techies aren't 
techie -- use tech to find ways to make it unneccessary for them to be...

--
Chuq Von Rospach, Internet Gnome <http://www.chuqui.com>
[<chuqui at plaidworks.com> = <me at chuqui.com> = <chuq at apple.com>]
Yes, yes, I've finally finished my home page. Lucky you.

Shroedinger:
  We can never really be sure which side of the road the chicken is on.  
It's all a matter of chance.  Like a game of dice.

Einstein, refuting Schroedinger:
  God does not play dice with chickens.
Heisenburg:
We can determine how fast the chicken travelled, or where it ended up, 
but we cannot determine why it did so.





From barry at digicool.com  Wed Jun 13 21:27:06 2001
From: barry at digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 15:27:06 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Subscriptions
References: <CF8E50F639267A448696655B7465DA4A063D4C@rachael.letnet.net>
Message-ID: <15143.48778.291751.691554@anthem.wooz.org>

>>>>> "MR" == Mark Roedel <MarkRoedel at letu.edu> writes:

    MR> but it's simply not a productive use of an admin's time
    MR> (especially when we're talking about larger lists) to go
    MR> combing through the web membership management screens for
    MR> every subscribed address within a domain

In MM2.1, you'll be able to search a list's membership by regular
expression.  Not as cool as being able to search /all/ lists by regexp
like you can via the cli, but still useful.

-Barry



From chuqui at plaidworks.com  Wed Jun 13 21:32:53 2001
From: chuqui at plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach)
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 12:32:53 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Subscriptions
In-Reply-To: <15143.48778.291751.691554@anthem.wooz.org>
Message-ID: <200106131931.f5DJVD415159@lists.apple.com>

On Wednesday, June 13, 2001, at 12:27 PM, Barry A. Warsaw wrote:

> In MM2.1, you'll be able to search a list's membership by regular
> expression.  Not as cool as being able to search /all/ lists by regexp
> like you can via the cli, but still useful.

and don't forget, you can do this trivially from the cli:

% find_members @foo.bar.bletch

I've even written some really crude scripts to eat the response and nuke 
domains and the like. On my sites, my list admins know if they get 
things like this, rather than waste time combing the admin pages, to 
forward them to me, since I'm the only one with cli access, and I'll 
deal with them.




--
Chuq Von Rospach, Internet Gnome <http://www.chuqui.com>
[<chuqui at plaidworks.com> = <me at chuqui.com> = <chuq at apple.com>]
Yes, yes, I've finally finished my home page. Lucky you.

I'll try being nicer if you'll try being
smarter.





From barry at digicool.com  Wed Jun 13 21:33:12 2001
From: barry at digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 15:33:12 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] This is unixstuff warning
References: <5.0.0.25.2.20010613074520.035cde20@pop3.vo.cnchost.com>
	<5.0.0.25.2.20010613095013.03a40d80@pop3.vo.cnchost.com>
	<3B27B117.98A28BB1@auntminnie.com>
Message-ID: <15143.49144.541260.463884@anthem.wooz.org>

>>>>> "A" == Amanda  <arandall at auntminnie.com> writes:

    A> What I want to know is, how can someone who runs filmless
    A> contrast-doppler radiology equipment, or microneurosurgical
    A> tools, etc., complain that unsubscribing from a freaking
    A> newsletter is "too technical" ?

I once knew of a chief of a very large medical informatics research
organization that never learned how to use a mouse.

so-much-despair-so-much-code-to-hack-ly y'rs,
-Barry



From arandall at auntminnie.com  Wed Jun 13 21:40:35 2001
From: arandall at auntminnie.com (Amanda)
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 12:40:35 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] This is unixstuff warning
References: <5.0.0.25.2.20010613074520.035cde20@pop3.vo.cnchost.com>
		<5.0.0.25.2.20010613095013.03a40d80@pop3.vo.cnchost.com>
		<3B27B117.98A28BB1@auntminnie.com> <15143.49144.541260.463884@anthem.wooz.org>
Message-ID: <3B27C1B3.2D2911EF@auntminnie.com>

"Barry A. Warsaw" wrote:

> I once knew of a chief of a very large medical informatics research
> organization that never learned how to use a mouse.

Mouse? What's a mouse? We don't need no stinkin' mouse!

You know, on the flip side of that coin, when I was working
(specifically) as a QA, a bug report was submitted that the tab order
was wrong on a certain app... the developer's response?
"Real men use a mouse. Not a bug; overridden."

::shaking head:: And then there's the fact that my boss flipped when he
saw I hadn't plugged a mouse into the server we were setting up ...
"But how will you get to anything?" ...what's wrong with the keyboard?

Takes all kinds, I guess. :-)

=)
Amanda






From dmick at utopia.West.Sun.COM  Wed Jun 13 22:19:33 2001
From: dmick at utopia.West.Sun.COM (Dan Mick)
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 13:19:33 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] This is unixstuff warning
Message-ID: <200106132019.NAA17392@utopia.West.Sun.COM>

> How can you do more than that? ;)

Well, I think we ought to call the product something with the word
"Mail" in it, so people know that it's about email.

And the mailing lists should be named something with "mail" in
the name, too.

Sarcastic-to-within-an-inch-of-everyone's-life-ly yours...




From lsoeftestad at cbnrm.com  Wed Jun 13 22:24:19 2001
From: lsoeftestad at cbnrm.com (Lars T. Soeftestad)
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 16:24:19 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Downloading MailMan
Message-ID: <003c01c0f446$d40417e0$2959f7a5@z7w1h7>

One has to begin somewhere, in my case with downloading MailMan. Can't figure out how  to download these files. Tar-files appears to be different than other files I've worked with. I guess the information is available on various pages, but I simply can't figure it out. Would someone pls guide me?
thanks, lars

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From chuqui at plaidworks.com  Wed Jun 13 22:41:12 2001
From: chuqui at plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach)
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 13:41:12 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] This is unixstuff warning
In-Reply-To: <15143.49144.541260.463884@anthem.wooz.org>
Message-ID: <200106132033.f5DKX4h02540@plaidworks.com>

On Wednesday, June 13, 2001, at 12:33 PM, Barry A. Warsaw wrote:

>     A> tools, etc., complain that unsubscribing from a freaking
>     A> newsletter is "too technical" ?
>
> I once knew of a chief of a very large medical informatics research
> organization that never learned how to use a mouse.

It's all what you know, and what you're trained in. I am (IMHO) a pretty 
darn good e-mail person, and pretty savvy on computer and internet 
things.

Can I program a boot rom? nope. Can you? A virtual memory implementation?

Can you anethstitize a cat for surgery? Neuter one (as a point of fact, 
I spent a summer in a vet operating room passing gas to cats and dogs, 
but I digress).

Can you replace the pistons in your car?

Can you design the stress tolerances of a beam in a house that's being 
remodelled?

Why do some of us make the assumption that because someone is trained, 
technical or smart (choose whichever term you prefer) that this somehow 
endows them with the magical ability to use a computer or understand 
intuitively how stuff like mail lists work? We're trained in computers 
and mail lists and the internet. Just because someone has a technical 
background doesn't make them a computer person, any more than my 
background in computers makes me somehow able to read an EKG or run an 
MRI machine (hey, why not? they have computers in them).

There seems to be an underlying attitude of "hey, this isn't brain 
surgery. Why do they find it difficult?"

Here's a hint: if you don't have the training in this stuff, it IS brain 
surgery. I can't tell you how many times I've sat down and given 
presentations to groups about upcoming projects I'm working on where 
stuff I thought was fairly straightforward looked to them like I was 
building nuclear bombs. when you do this all the time, it GETS easy for 
you. That doesn't mean it's easy -- and it doesn't mean that people 
automatically 'ought' to Get It because they have some training in 
unrelated technical disciplines, any more than my background in internet 
protocols and user interfaces qualifies me to hack kernels. It might 
make it easier for me to LEARN kernel hacking, but it still takes work 
(and the obverse is true; if someone is a kernel hacker, why does that 
somehow imply they by definition ought to know how mail lists work any 
more than my mom does? Answer: they odn't, but we assume they're somehow 
stupid or arrogant when they don't get it....)





--
Chuq Von Rospach, Internet Gnome <http://www.chuqui.com>
[<chuqui at plaidworks.com> = <me at chuqui.com> = <chuq at apple.com>]
Yes, yes, I've finally finished my home page. Lucky you.

I'm really easy to get along with once you
people learn to worship me.




From arandall at auntminnie.com  Wed Jun 13 22:40:17 2001
From: arandall at auntminnie.com (Amanda)
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 13:40:17 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Downloading MailMan
References: <003c01c0f446$d40417e0$2959f7a5@z7w1h7>
Message-ID: <3B27CFB1.8215B105@auntminnie.com>

Hi Lars,

Looks like you're using Outlook Express, which is a Windows thing...
which may or may not be relevant, but leads me to the first possible
question: do you have Unix, Linux, BSD, Mac OS X, or some variant
thereof installed wherever you're trying to install Mailman? If not,
you will probably have some difficulty getting it to work... (I mean
no insult by this question, just starting with the lowest common
denominator, as I have no idea what your technical expertise is...)

If you are running something Unixlike, then yeah, the instructions are
available at
http://list.org/download.html
at the bottom of the page. :-)
If that's not helpful enough, one of the folks here would probably be
kind enough to walk you through it ... but you might first find it
useful to pick up a coupla good books on the OS you'll be using, to
get familiar with file management and other cornerstone OS stuff,
before getting started with installing Mailman. (It will save you a
big headache in the long run...)

=)
Amanda


"Lars T. Soeftestad" wrote:

> One has to begin somewhere, in my case with downloading MailMan.
> Can't figure out how  to download these files. Tar-files appears to
> be different than other files I've worked with. I guess the
> information is available on various pages, but I simply can't figure
> it out. Would someone pls guide me?thanks, lars
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From louiza at home.com  Wed Jun 13 22:55:10 2001
From: louiza at home.com (Louiza)
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 13:55:10 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Instability of Mailman or ?
In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20010613074217.02bfb5f0@pop3.vo.cnchost.com>
References: <CF8E50F639267A448696655B7465DA4A063D4A@rachael.letnet.net>
 <CF8E50F639267A448696655B7465DA4A063D4A@rachael.letnet.net>
 <5.0.0.25.2.20010613074217.02bfb5f0@pop3.vo.cnchost.com>
Message-ID: <p05001900b74d7d7fc2e8@[24.6.175.99]>

At 7:44 AM -0700 6/13/01, JC Dill wrote:
>This is sloppy and unprofessional "support".  You have email that is 
>being sent to them that they are not processing and delivering! 
>That's a BIG PROBLEM and they are treating it like a minor issue. 
>I'd get in their face to fix it, AND I'd start looking for a new 
>provider.

I have been attempting to kick some butt all day today. I passed on 
the suggestions offered here by others and I have conducted a few 
tests of my own.

People who have not been receiving mail from the list since Monday 
evening, including myself, are still not receiving mail even though I 
have been told "everything should be working fine now".

I just received another reply from tech support. I demanded that I be 
told what steps have been taken to fix the problem and asked if they 
had done the following:

"Also, your
webhost should check for stale locks that might be gumming up that
particular list (if other lists are getting messages).  Have them look
and see if qfiles/ is filling up or not."

as Barry suggested, and the fellow said he checked the lock and fixed 
it. But he didn't give me any other information concerning what other 
stuff he'd already done.

This morning, I used another e-mail account from a third-party ISP 
and subscribed to the list. I am receiving the list mail through this 
account only.

Plus, I have sent myself (to my primary ISP e-mail addy) two test 
messages from a pop account at my website and have not received them. 
I have already determined that the problem does not lie with my local 
ISP, as I am receiving other test messages and other mail just fine.

>That said, can the list make any recommendations for a GOOD web host 
>provider who offers mailman lists to their users?

aarrggh! I only signed up with this host in March and am paid-in 
full, so I would lose quite a bit of money if I left now. Plus, this 
host was referred to me by a trusted friend who has had multiple 
accounts with them for quite some time. However, she has never run a 
mailing list through them! :(

Thanks for your help. Sorry about being so grumpy.

Regards,

Louiza



From scott at zenplex.com  Wed Jun 13 23:15:58 2001
From: scott at zenplex.com (Scott Comboni)
Date: 13 Jun 2001 17:15:58 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman List move?
Message-ID: <992466959.1106.31.camel@scoot>

Hello all,
New to the list but have been running Mailman for over a year. Anyway
I'm in the process of installing a new box and I have a slightly
different mailman structure.  Old /usr/share/mailman and the new install
has created /usr/lib/mailman and /var/mailman were the lists are
located.  Is there an easy way to move my lists over? without loosing
anything?
Any help would be great or point me in some doc that explains this..
Scott

--




From kd5de at nwla.com  Wed Jun 13 23:16:13 2001
From: kd5de at nwla.com (Mel)
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 16:16:13 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] This is unixstuff warning
References: <200106132033.f5DKX4h02540@plaidworks.com>
Message-ID: <3B27D81D.3BDBCAB6@nwla.com>

Chuq Von Rospach wrote:
 
> Can I program a boot rom? nope. Can you? A virtual memory implementation?
> 
 
> Why do some of us make the assumption that because someone is trained,
> technical or smart (choose whichever term you prefer) that this somehow
> endows them with the magical ability to use a computer or understand
> intuitively how stuff like mail lists work? We're trained in computers
> and mail lists and the internet. Just because someone has a technical
> background doesn't make them a computer person, any more than my
> background in computers makes me somehow able to read an EKG or run an
> MRI machine (hey, why not? they have computers in them).
> 
> There seems to be an underlying attitude of "hey, this isn't brain
> surgery. Why do they find it difficult?"
> 
> Here's a hint: if you don't have the training in this stuff, it IS brain
> surgery.
 Well said CVR; I normally don't reply to the list I am just
a innocent ISP that can program a boot rom. But  I must
admit that even after 9 years of Linux and 6 years as an ISP
I still get totally lost in the so called man pages, readme,
install and FAQ docs.

					Such is Life
							Mel
-- 
--------------------------
This Mail composed using Netscape 4.76
Red Hat 7.0 Linux 2.2.16
--------------------------



From barry at digicool.com  Wed Jun 13 23:47:56 2001
From: barry at digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 17:47:56 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] This is unixstuff warning
References: <20010613120856.D29763@babylon5.babcom.com>
	<200106131919.f5DJJo413865@lists.apple.com>
Message-ID: <15143.57228.171286.326387@anthem.wooz.org>

Darn good reality checks Chuq, thanks. :)

>>>>> "CVR" == Chuq Von Rospach <chuqui at plaidworks.com> writes:

    CVR> What can be done to clean up mailman's rough edges and make
    CVR> it easier ot use, especially by the end-user who's not a
    CVR> techie? where is the documentation weak? or missing? Where
    CVR> are the web pages unclear? What is non-intuitive? It's a damn
    CVR> good MLM -- what does it need to make it better?

Indeed.

-Barry



From Joel.Votaw at bops.com  Wed Jun 13 23:52:27 2001
From: Joel.Votaw at bops.com (Joel Votaw)
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 16:52:27 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Allowing users to join without specifying passwords
Message-ID: <A148C710488FD411BC4000508BD922D82B36A2@aussrv001.austin.bops.com>

Hello, 
 
I recently inherited a Mailman server and have unfortunately never used the
tool before.  I have a question about administering the server that I can't
find the answer to online or in the documentation, and was wondering if
someone on this list could give me some insight.
 
I need to allow people to join and use the lists without specifying a
password at all.  I've dug through the docs including with the distribution,
archives of this mailing list, and a number of Google searches and can't
turn up the answer (however I've found plenty of information about turning
off password reminder messages!).
 
I've also found the template for the "subscribe" page, but removing the
password fields from the HTML doesn't fix the problem.
 
For what it's worth, I'm pretty proficient at UNIX and programming (though
not Python per se) and wouldn't mind making some changes to the source code
and recompiling, as long as doing so will take a reasonably finite,
predictable amount of time.
 
Thanks you very much in advance for any pointers,
        -Joel

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From Jim_Fannin at aotx.uscourts.gov  Thu Jun 14 00:00:48 2001
From: Jim_Fannin at aotx.uscourts.gov (Jim_Fannin at aotx.uscourts.gov)
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 17:00:48 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can You Delete A Message From an Archive?
Message-ID: <OFED33CCB6.F535C080-ON86256A6A.0076186F@uscmail.dcn>

We have a unique circumstance in which a mail message was posted, approved 
and sent to a list which turned out to have erroneous information in it. 
Management would like to remove the message from the archive which is 
public. Anyone know how to do this without killing the archive?

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Jim Fannin
jim_fannin at aotx.uscourts.gov
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From mailman at howlingfrog.com  Thu Jun 14 00:21:49 2001
From: mailman at howlingfrog.com (Graham TerMarsch)
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 15:21:49 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Any way to trim back memory requirements?
Message-ID: <01061315214900.14512@graham.localdomain>

I'm sure that I've even asked this one before, but was wondering if anyone 
had any tips or tricks on how to tame the memory requirements of 
Mailman-2.0.5.  Asking as I'm finding that even the "listinfo" or 
"subscribe" CGI pages are sucking up 40-50MB of RAM on one of the lists 
we're running (~75k subscribers).  Its starting to become a bit 
problematic as at peak periods we're finding it not uncommon to have six 
or seven concurrent requests for one or the other of these scripts, and 
300MB of unshared memory used just for these CGIs does seem a bit much.

How are other people grappling with the memory requirement issues?

-- 
Graham TerMarsch



From martinf at control-f1.com  Thu Jun 14 00:38:15 2001
From: martinf at control-f1.com (Martin Foster)
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 16:38:15 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Sending without implicit approval
Message-ID: <3B27EB57.CD0B6A0F@control-f1.com>

I am trying to migrate from Majordomo 1.9.x which has serious problems
specially in regards to sending out mail to 500+ individuals at a
time.   The only disadvantage I can find to GNU Mailman is the simple
fact that I can't seem to create a base list of people and have all
lists draw from that for 'sending without implicit approval.'

This normally would not be a problem, as we could simply do this
manually.  However, in time this may get to be a rather large hassle.  
Is there a way to keep all of the lists synchronized in such a way that
they all have the same implicit sending list?   I would even gladly
write a script if I knew how to directly modify the list to take on this
option.

Is there a way to create a symbolic link from file to file somewhat
forcing the issue?  Just a thought any others?

					Martin Foster
					martinf at control-f1.com



From satyap at satya.virtualave.net  Thu Jun 14 02:26:38 2001
From: satyap at satya.virtualave.net (Satya)
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 05:56:38 +0530 (IST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Allowing users to join without specifying
 passwords
In-Reply-To: <A148C710488FD411BC4000508BD922D82B36A2@aussrv001.austin.bops.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0106140555200.5120-100000@hal9k.myip.org>

On Jun 13, 2001 at 16:52, Joel Votaw wrote:

>I need to allow people to join and use the lists without specifying a
>password at all.  I've dug through the docs including with the distribution,
>archives of this mailing list, and a number of Google searches and can't
>turn up the answer (however I've found plenty of information about turning
>off password reminder messages!).

Actually, this is a FAQ. Try
http://satya.virtualave.net/download.html#mailmanw

-- 
Satya. <URL:http://satya.virtualave.net/>
US-bound grad students! For pre-apps, see <URL:http://quickapps.cjb.net/>
Computer lie #1: you'll never use all that disk space.




From ewilts at ewilts.org  Thu Jun 14 05:27:02 2001
From: ewilts at ewilts.org (Ed Wilts)
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 22:27:02 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] This is unixstuff warning
In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20010613074520.035cde20@pop3.vo.cnchost.com>
References: <510EAC2065C0D311929200A0247252622F77FE@NETIVITY-FS> <5.0.0.25.2.20010613074520.035cde20@pop3.vo.cnchost.com>
Message-ID: <0106132227021F.24130@linux1.ewilts.org>

On Wednesday 13 June 2001 09:53 am, JC Dill wrote:
> On 04:38 AM 6/13/01, Ed Wilts wrote:
>  >On Wednesday 13 June 2001 02:25 am, Enriko Groen wrote:
>  >> And frustrated too because they get 70 emails or so a day and don't
>  >> know how to leave the list.
>  >
>  >All they have to do is to display the headers of one of the mail
>  > messages. The unsubscribe information is in there.
>
> There are too many people on the Internet these days who CAN NOT view all
> the message headers.  AOL hides many headers.  Hotmail hides many
> headers.  Yahoo hides many headers.  Even if there is some process the user
> can go through to eventually view all the headers, someone who wants to
> just stop receiving 70 mails a day is just going to start whining (to the
> list!) "how do I get off this list, I can't handle all this email!"  They
> are NOT motivated to figure out how to "view all the headers" to get that
> information.

In the general case, I would tend to agree with you.  However, this is not a 
general sewing list for end users, but a discussion of mailing lists on a 
server.  Seriously, if you don't understand mail headers, you shouldn't be 
trying to manage mailing lists.  

Perhaps it's just too easy to subscribe to mailman-users.  The confirmation 
e-mail should say to check the mail headers to instructions to confirm your 
subscription.  If you can't find them, you don't deserve to be managing 
mailing lists.  Half a :-)

	.../Ed
-- 
Ed Wilts, Mounds View, MN, USA
mailto:ewilts at ewilts.org



From raif at speakeasy.net  Thu Jun 14 05:46:48 2001
From: raif at speakeasy.net (arif)
Date: 13 Jun 2001 23:46:48 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] strange problem with rebuilding archives, mailman thinks it's in a
 different directory
Message-ID: <992490408.1086.2.camel@localhost.localdomain>

I'm hoping someone can help me with this.  I'm getting this error when
using arch to rebuild an archive, what's odd is the line that seems to
be looking for an archive mbox in /usr/share, even though mailman is
configured and installed in /var/mailman.  Here's the error message from
the arch command:
 ./arch ny-oc /var/mailman/archives/private/ny-oc.mbox/ny-oc.mbox  
Traceback (innermost last):
  File "./arch", line 129, in ?
    main()
  File "./arch", line 116, in main
    archiver = HyperArchive(mlist)
  File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/HyperArch.py", line 578, in
__init__
    self.__super_init(dir, reload=1, database=db)
  File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/pipermail.py", line 269, in
__init__
    mkdir(self.basedir, self.DIRMODE)
  File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Utils.py", line 559, in mkdir
    os.mkdir(dir, mode)
OSError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory:
'/usr/share/mailman/archives/private/ny-oc'

can anyone tell me how I can fix this?
thanks much,
-arif




From claw at kanga.nu  Thu Jun 14 09:44:10 2001
From: claw at kanga.nu (J C Lawrence)
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 00:44:10 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] This is unixstuff warning 
In-Reply-To: Message from Phil Stracchino <alaric@babylon5.babcom.com> 
   of "Wed, 13 Jun 2001 11:38:58 PDT." <20010613113858.B29763@babylon5.babcom.com> 
References: <5.0.0.25.2.20010613074520.035cde20@pop3.vo.cnchost.com> <200106131542.f5DFgZ423215@lists.apple.com>  <20010613113858.B29763@babylon5.babcom.com> 
Message-ID: <14276.992504650@kanga.nu>

On Wed, 13 Jun 2001 11:38:58 -0700 
Phil Stracchino <alaric at babylon5.babcom.com> wrote:
> On Wed, Jun 13, 2001 at 08:44:14AM -0700, Chuq Von Rospach wrote:

>> I think the "teach them to fish" mode worked in earlier
>> days. Today, too many people feel everyone else owes them
>> whatever they want.

> It's all part of the culture of abdication of personal
> responsibility and the nanny society.  They don't want you to
> teach them how to fish ...

Translation: The September that never ended is still not over.

Unfortunately, and not attempting to read his eulogy, and this is
something I deeply regret, Chuq appears to be the latest (and
hopefully temporary) casualty.  He has a good point: Maintaining
good will and earnestness in the face of continual unresponsive
blunt assault tends to be dehumanising.  Triage is understandable,
and probably should be encouraged if only to save personal integrity
and belief in self.  I don't know that there are any elegant answers
when you spend human capital that way, and I certainly don't know
that its possible to NOT spend human capital in this way.

Do some Google searches on Chuq.  He's earned, not claimed, his
laurels.

-- 
J C Lawrence                                       claw at kanga.nu
---------(*)                          http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/
The pressure to survive and rhetoric may make strange bedfellows



From claw at kanga.nu  Thu Jun 14 09:55:57 2001
From: claw at kanga.nu (J C Lawrence)
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 00:55:57 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] This is unixstuff warning 
In-Reply-To: Message from Amanda <arandall@auntminnie.com> 
   of "Wed, 13 Jun 2001 12:40:35 PDT." <3B27C1B3.2D2911EF@auntminnie.com> 
References: <5.0.0.25.2.20010613074520.035cde20@pop3.vo.cnchost.com> <5.0.0.25.2.20010613095013.03a40d80@pop3.vo.cnchost.com> <3B27B117.98A28BB1@auntminnie.com> <15143.49144.541260.463884@anthem.wooz.org>  <3B27C1B3.2D2911EF@auntminnie.com> 
Message-ID: <3383.992505357@kanga.nu>

On Wed, 13 Jun 2001 12:40:35 -0700 
arandall  <Amanda> wrote:

> ::shaking head:: And then there's the fact that my boss flipped
> when he saw I hadn't plugged a mouse into the server we were
> setting up ...  "But how will you get to anything?" ...what's
> wrong with the keyboard?

The central intellectual hurdle I've found with trying to teach
Windows users about basic Unix system administration (or simple use
of their account) is getting past the fixed idea that:

  To do anything to a computer you have to go put your body in front
  of it.

The idea of network and interface abstraction is a significant
educational hurdle that is a bitch to overcome.

-- 
J C Lawrence                                       claw at kanga.nu
---------(*)                          http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/
The pressure to survive and rhetoric may make strange bedfellows



From claw at kanga.nu  Thu Jun 14 09:59:45 2001
From: claw at kanga.nu (J C Lawrence)
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 00:59:45 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Instability of Mailman or ? 
In-Reply-To: Message from Louiza <louiza@home.com> 
   of "Wed, 13 Jun 2001 13:55:10 PDT." <p05001900b74d7d7fc2e8@[24.6.175.99]> 
References: <CF8E50F639267A448696655B7465DA4A063D4A@rachael.letnet.net> <CF8E50F639267A448696655B7465DA4A063D4A@rachael.letnet.net> <5.0.0.25.2.20010613074217.02bfb5f0@pop3.vo.cnchost.com>  <p05001900b74d7d7fc2e8@[24.6.175.99]> 
Message-ID: <10357.992505585@kanga.nu>

On Wed, 13 Jun 2001 13:55:10 -0700 
louiza  <louiza at home.com> wrote:

> Plus, I have sent myself (to my primary ISP e-mail addy) two test
> messages from a pop account at my website and have not received
> them. I have already determined that the problem does not lie with
> my local ISP, as I am receiving other test messages and other mail
> just fine.

It is possible that your provider is on one of the MAPS lists (eg
DUL, RSS, etc) and is therefore being blackholed/bounced because of
that.  Go check MAPS (mail-abuse.org) and ORBS (folded now I think?)
to make sure.

-- 
J C Lawrence                                       claw at kanga.nu
---------(*)                          http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/
The pressure to survive and rhetoric may make strange bedfellows



From alaric at babylon5.babcom.com  Thu Jun 14 10:28:09 2001
From: alaric at babylon5.babcom.com (Phil Stracchino)
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 01:28:09 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] This is unixstuff warning
In-Reply-To: <14276.992504650@kanga.nu>; from claw@kanga.nu on Thu, Jun 14, 2001 at 12:44:10AM -0700
References: <5.0.0.25.2.20010613074520.035cde20@pop3.vo.cnchost.com> <200106131542.f5DFgZ423215@lists.apple.com> <20010613113858.B29763@babylon5.babcom.com> <alaric@babylon5.babcom.com> <14276.992504650@kanga.nu>
Message-ID: <20010614012809.B19546@babylon5.babcom.com>

On Thu, Jun 14, 2001 at 12:44:10AM -0700, J C Lawrence wrote:
> Do some Google searches on Chuq.  He's earned, not claimed, his
> laurels.


You're preaching to the choir.  :)


-- 
 Linux Now!   ..........Because friends don't let friends use Microsoft.
 phil stracchino   --   the renaissance man   --   mystic zen biker geek
    Vr00m:  2000 Honda CBR929RR   --   Cage:  2000 Dodge Intrepid R/T
 Previous vr00mage:  1986 VF500F (sold), 1991 VFR750F3 (foully murdered)



From Nigel.Metheringham at VData.co.uk  Thu Jun 14 10:42:18 2001
From: Nigel.Metheringham at VData.co.uk (Nigel Metheringham)
Date: 14 Jun 2001 09:42:18 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] This is unixstuff warning
In-Reply-To: <3383.992505357@kanga.nu>
References: <5.0.0.25.2.20010613074520.035cde20@pop3.vo.cnchost.com>
	<5.0.0.25.2.20010613095013.03a40d80@pop3.vo.cnchost.com>
	<3B27B117.98A28BB1@auntminnie.com>
	<15143.49144.541260.463884@anthem.wooz.org> 
	<3B27C1B3.2D2911EF@auntminnie.com>   <3383.992505357@kanga.nu>
Message-ID: <992508143.10871.0.camel@gaspode.localnet>

Some wisdom posted on the exim list a while back (on the subject of
trying to persuade people that its not some person with good typing
skills sending out bounce messages) may fit into the current discussion.

See
http://www.exim.org/pipermail/exim-users/Week-of-Mon-20000710/019372.html

	Nigel.





From jeremy.sharp at twang.net  Thu Jun 14 12:25:51 2001
From: jeremy.sharp at twang.net (Jeremy Sharp)
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 11:25:51 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Announcement only
Message-ID: <015701c0f4bc$62f31260$c2dfa4c2@twang.net>

Newbie question:

Can I ensure that my list:

- can only receive posts from the administrator
- will not pass unauthorised posts for moderation, but just rejects them
- is nice and secure generally (maybe a posting password or something?)

?

TIA


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jeremy Sharp
Technical Director 

Twang.Net Ltd
+44 1635 239000 - Switchboard
+44 1635 239009 - Direct
+44 1635 239001 - Fax

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From rogerk at QueerNet.ORG  Thu Jun 14 12:26:28 2001
From: rogerk at QueerNet.ORG (Roger B.A. Klorese)
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 03:26:28 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Announcement only
In-Reply-To: <015701c0f4bc$62f31260$c2dfa4c2@twang.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSI.4.32.0106140326020.12833-100000@castro.queernet.org>

On Thu, 14 Jun 2001, Jeremy Sharp wrote:
> Can I ensure that my list:
> - will not pass unauthorised posts for moderation, but just rejects them

This is not possible in any released version of the software.
-- 
ROGER B.A. KLORESE                                          rogerk at QueerNet.ORG
PO Box 14309		                                San Francisco, CA 94114
"Go without hate. But not without rage. Heal the world."        -- Paul Monette




From jorgenru at stud.ntnu.no  Thu Jun 14 13:47:22 2001
From: jorgenru at stud.ntnu.no (=?iso-8859-1?Q?J=F8rgen_Ruud?=)
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 13:47:22 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] aliases.py + wrapper script
Message-ID: <20010614134721.A25825@stud.ntnu.no>

When I make a new list with the bin/newlist command, I want it to
update the /etc/aliases list and run the newaliases command (use
sendmail as MTA). aliases.py says:

# TODO:
#     - fix this file!  /etc/alias hacking no longer works

# Write a wrapper program w/ root uid that allows the mailman user
# only to update the alias database.

Have anyone done this, and can give me a link to an example wrapper
program. And does the newlist script need any changes in order to make
this work?

-- 
J?rgen Ruud
jorgenru at stud.ntnu.no



From gwolosh at njit.edu  Thu Jun 14 15:39:03 2001
From: gwolosh at njit.edu (Gedaliah Wolosh)
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 09:39:03 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moving mailman to a new machine
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0106140935120.8345-100000@geula.njit.edu>

Hi all,

I need to move mailman to a new machine.  Is there any reason I can't just tar
up the mailman home directory and unpack it on the new machine??  The original
machine will be taken out of service and the new machine will be given the same
name.

My mailman installation is small at this point.  Only about 10 lists without
much activity.

-- 
_________________________________________________________________
Gedaliah Wolosh, Ph.D.				973 596-5437
New Jersey Institute of Technology		Fax 596-2306
323 King Blvd 	GITC 2203			gwolosh at njit.edu
Newark, NJ 07102





From barry at digicool.com  Thu Jun 14 16:34:03 2001
From: barry at digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 10:34:03 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can You Delete A Message From an Archive?
References: <OFED33CCB6.F535C080-ON86256A6A.0076186F@uscmail.dcn>
Message-ID: <15144.52059.987678.571512@anthem.wooz.org>

>>>>> "JF" == Jim Fannin <Jim_Fannin at aotx.uscourts.gov> writes:

    JF> We have a unique circumstance in which a mail message was
    JF> posted, approved and sent to a list which turned out to have
    JF> erroneous information in it.  Management would like to remove
    JF> the message from the archive which is public. Anyone know how
    JF> to do this without killing the archive?

Just manually edit the message out of the .mbox file and re-run
bin/arch.  Take care when you edit .mbox though; you want to remove
the envelope-from header of the offending message too.

-Barry




From barry at digicool.com  Thu Jun 14 16:37:49 2001
From: barry at digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 10:37:49 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Sending without implicit approval
References: <3B27EB57.CD0B6A0F@control-f1.com>
Message-ID: <15144.52285.165827.712552@anthem.wooz.org>

>>>>> "MF" == Martin Foster <martinf at control-f1.com> writes:

    MF> This normally would not be a problem, as we could simply do
    MF> this manually.  However, in time this may get to be a rather
    MF> large hassle.  Is there a way to keep all of the lists
    MF> synchronized in such a way that they all have the same
    MF> implicit sending list?  I would even gladly write a script if
    MF> I knew how to directly modify the list to take on this option.

You could write a bin/withlist script to add that list of addresses to
the `posters' attribute of every mailing list.  Shouldn't be more than
a few lines of Python to keep that in sync.

-Barry



From luser at ahab.com  Thu Jun 14 16:41:48 2001
From: luser at ahab.com (JT)
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 10:41:48 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] This is unixstuff warning
In-Reply-To: <200106131919.f5DJJo413865@lists.apple.com>; from chuqui@plaidworks.com on Wed, Jun 13, 2001 at 12:21:30PM -0700
References: <20010613120856.D29763@babylon5.babcom.com> <200106131919.f5DJJo413865@lists.apple.com>
Message-ID: <20010614104148.A1741@zed.unbeat.com>

On Wed, Jun 13, 2001 at 12:21:30PM -0700, Chuq Von Rospach wrote:
[snip]
> 
> why is the internet supposed to be immune from real life? you've never 
> seen people who are too busy/important to stand in line at a store? who 
> are annoying/obnoxious/abusive to a clerk? Name your favorite poison -- 
> jerks exist in real life, and the internet gets its share.


You said it there.  Any job that brings you into contact with the
general public is going to bring you to the inescapable conclusions
that a good percentage of the population might as well walk around
dressed in animal skins, dragging a human femur.  Try working a cash
register for a couple months and you'll see how true this is.

For some reason (I'd guess the real power that technical competency
brings), technical folks seem to have a little less patience to bring
to dealing with the troublemakers.

[snip]
> What can be done to clean up mailman's rough edges and make it easier ot 
> use, especially by the end-user who's not a techie? where is the 
> documentation weak? or missing? Where are the web pages unclear? What is 
> non-intuitive? It's a damn good MLM -- what does it need to make it 
> better?
> 

Right again.  Here's a couple of things to make it cleaner (one of which you
identified and which I strongly second):

	1) Include the subscription address in the body of administrative
	mails sent to the individual user.  Truly half the people who
	can't unsubscribe don't even know what address is subscribed.
	Majordomo suffers this flaw too - and To headers don't cut it,
	forget about Received.  This should be in default installations.

	2) Simplify the 'unsubscribe' option for people who've forgotten
	the passwords (which is most of the people who want to
	unsubscribe).  First of all, the option should be more prominent -
	yes I know you can change the templates but few do (including me).
	Second of all, there is no reason for such a user to actually
	*use* the password.  That's "too hard".  If a user is trying to
	unsubscribe and has forgotten their password, the reminder email
	should have the option "reply to unsubscribe".

	3) Include the word "unsubscribe" in the standard footer appended
	to postings.  If people don't see that word, they are less likely
	to actually try going to the web page to unsubscribe, and often
	write the list.

	4) End users need OBVIOUS 'you can't miss it'  documentation
	explaining that there are separate administrative addresses for
	each list;  foo-request is obvious to me, but occasionally I
	forget and then remember that most of the poor saps who write
	"subscribe" messages to the list are probably frustrated as much
	as lazy.  Make it easier for them to understand the things that
	*can't* be made simpler about MLMs.

There's always the issue of how simple/hard to make unsubscribing.
This is, in part, a matter of judgement and list policy.  Personally,
I think that it should be easy to get on lists and even easier to get
off them.  Mailman does a good job of this in general, and passes my
other test - simplicity for new users, advanced features for other
users (like web *and* mail-command use).  Perhaps an install-time or
list-creation-time option to choose standard templates or 'newbie'
templates would be a good idea.  If I get time to write an alternate
template, or if I write one for a list I'm managing, I'll send it in
with a patch to newlist for this...

my $0.02.
j




From luser at ahab.com  Thu Jun 14 16:53:58 2001
From: luser at ahab.com (JT)
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 10:53:58 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Announcement only
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSI.4.32.0106140326020.12833-100000@castro.queernet.org>; from rogerk@QueerNet.ORG on Thu, Jun 14, 2001 at 03:26:28AM -0700
References: <015701c0f4bc$62f31260$c2dfa4c2@twang.net> <Pine.BSI.4.32.0106140326020.12833-100000@castro.queernet.org>
Message-ID: <20010614105358.B1741@zed.unbeat.com>

I wouldn't think you'd want to do it, either... half the time people
are posting to moderated lists, they are actually trying to email the
list administrator, who *should* see their messages.

You could always add a header to the bounce message explaining where
to reach that person, and then write a script to clean out the
messages waiting for approval...

On Thu, Jun 14, 2001 at 03:26:28AM -0700, Roger B.A. Klorese wrote:
> On Thu, 14 Jun 2001, Jeremy Sharp wrote:
> > Can I ensure that my list:
> > - will not pass unauthorised posts for moderation, but just rejects them
> 
> This is not possible in any released version of the software.
> -- 
> ROGER B.A. KLORESE                                          rogerk at QueerNet.ORG
> PO Box 14309		                                San Francisco, CA 94114
> "Go without hate. But not without rage. Heal the world."        -- Paul Monette
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users maillist  -  Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users



From chuqui at plaidworks.com  Thu Jun 14 16:55:22 2001
From: chuqui at plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach)
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 07:55:22 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] This is unixstuff warning 
In-Reply-To: <14276.992504650@kanga.nu>
Message-ID: <200106141447.f5EElDh24508@plaidworks.com>

On Thursday, June 14, 2001, at 12:44 AM, J C Lawrence wrote:

> Maintaining
> good will and earnestness in the face of continual unresponsive
> blunt assault tends to be dehumanising.


You even see it on this list, both at the people who come here to ask 
questions, and among the regular residents.

>  I don't know that there are any elegant answers
> when you spend human capital that way,

I'll tell you what two of the answers are:

1) really damn good documentation. Write the best docs you possibly can, 
then go make them better. Good user interfaces, clear explanation, solid 
navigation, and serious ease of use. Make the system so easy it's hard 
to get lost or confused -- and then document everything for those that 
get lost and confused anyway.

2) automate as much as you can for the admins. The more grunt work the 
admin has to do, the less likely it'll get done, and the more likely the 
admin will be grumpy about doing his work. Admins ought to be there to 
handle the out-of-bounds cases, errors and emergencies. The easier you 
make a system for the admin, the better for everyone.

Unfortunately, hacking code is fun-work. Writing docs, user testing, 
interviewing typical users, more user testing, navigation design, good 
UIs -- that stuff is all work-work, and it tends to be left until late 
in the process, if ever. Barry's one guy who can only get so much done, 
and only has one set of skills, too -- and access to only one set of 
users for feedback. There really needs to be a mailman documentation 
sub-project, where people focus on writing end-user docs, beating the 
crap out of the public and admin web pages to make them squeaky clean 
and navigable, and building a full suite of administrator documentation.

And I note for the record that my suggestion that everyone stop blaming 
mailman's problems on stupid users and instead go fix mailman fell on 
deaf ears -- but it seems to have shut down the thread at the same time. 
Because it's easy/fun to blame users and call them stupid, but fixing 
mailman is hard work. And it seems most people here are interested in 
taking the easy road, and not deal with the real problem. I'm not 
surprised.

After 20 years of trying to teach users about the internet, running 
internet systems for others, and trying to fix geek toys so that real, 
normal humans could actually use the stuff, I'm taking a break. I think 
I've earned one (and I don't care if you agree, actually. grin). But the 
first trick to building really good systems is to stop building things 
geeks like, and blaming non-geeks when they don't show interest in 
becoming a geek so they can use it. Until people figure that out and are 
willing to do the (hard) work of figuring out what REAL people need 
instead of what you want to give them, this chasm will still exist. It's 
an attitude thing more than anyhting else -- and the "my users are 
stupid" schitck is key to its existance.

These users aren't stupid. Your software is. You can blame the user, or 
you can fix the software. Blaming the user is the easy way, and a cop 
out. Most folks don't have the guts to do the right thing, because they 
have to admit to themselves they don't have all the answers and that 
their stuff isn't perfect. And they aren't willing to commit to doing 
the hard part of the job, which is the LAST 20% of a project, not the 
fun parts.

And, of course, if you do the hard work, you run the risk of getting 
tired and needing a break... It's easier to slack off and blame others 
for not being good enough to understand what you've done.

And thus endeth the lecture...


--
Chuq Von Rospach, Internet Gnome <http://www.chuqui.com>
[<chuqui at plaidworks.com> = <me at chuqui.com> = <chuq at apple.com>]
Yes, yes, I've finally finished my home page. Lucky you.

I tried to get a life once, but they were out of stock.





From padhp at hotmail.com  Thu Jun 14 17:55:26 2001
From: padhp at hotmail.com (PAd [Pure As Diamond])
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 11:55:26 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] non-digest and digest
Message-ID: <F44Dk4JdxVHYEuZFkTE0000b589@hotmail.com>

Hi,
  Can anyone explain what is the difference between non-dgest and digest 
members.

Thanks
_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com




From haroldp at sierraweb.com  Thu Jun 14 18:43:36 2001
From: haroldp at sierraweb.com (Harold Paulson)
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 09:43:36 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] This is unixstuff warning
In-Reply-To: <20010614104148.A1741@zed.unbeat.com>
References: <20010613120856.D29763@babylon5.babcom.com>
 <200106131919.f5DJJo413865@lists.apple.com>
 <20010614104148.A1741@zed.unbeat.com>
Message-ID: <p05010408b74e96505323@[216.162.173.6]>

On Thu, 14 Jun 2001 10:41:48 -0400, JT wrote:

[deletia]

>users (like web *and* mail-command use).  Perhaps an install-time or
>list-creation-time option to choose standard templates or 'newbie'
>templates would be a good idea.  If I get time to write an alternate
>template, or if I write one for a list I'm managing, I'll send it in
>with a patch to newlist for this...

An expert and newbie template, Yum!  You could also solve a FAQ by 
making a Discussion vs Distribution template.

	- H
-- 

Harold Paulson                  Sierra Web Design
haroldp at sierraweb.com           http://www.sierraweb.com
VOICE: 775.833.9500             FAX:   810.314.1517



From claw at kanga.nu  Thu Jun 14 18:51:47 2001
From: claw at kanga.nu (J C Lawrence)
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 09:51:47 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] This is unixstuff warning 
In-Reply-To: Message from Chuq Von Rospach <chuqui@plaidworks.com> 
   of "Thu, 14 Jun 2001 07:55:22 PDT." <200106141447.f5EElDh24508@plaidworks.com> 
References: <200106141447.f5EElDh24508@plaidworks.com> 
Message-ID: <8588.992537507@kanga.nu>

On Thu, 14 Jun 2001 07:55:22 -0700 
Chuq Von Rospach <chuqui at plaidworks.com> wrote:

> On Thursday, June 14, 2001, at 12:44 AM, J C Lawrence wrote:

>> Maintaining good will and earnestness in the face of continual
>> unresponsive blunt assault tends to be dehumanising.

> You even see it on this list, both at the people who come here to
> ask questions, and among the regular residents.

Yup.  I see it in myself and my willingness to launch into
explanations of solutions versus snap answers which point to only
the root of the problem and nothing else.

>> I don't know that there are any elegant answers when you spend
>> human capital that way,

> I'll tell you what two of the answers are:

> 1) really damn good documentation. Write the best docs you
> possibly can, then go make them better. Good user interfaces,
> clear explanation, solid navigation, and serious ease of use. Make
> the system so easy it's hard to get lost or confused -- and then
> document everything for those that get lost and confused anyway.

> 2) automate as much as you can for the admins. The more grunt work
> the admin has to do, the less likely it'll get done, and the more
> likely the admin will be grumpy about doing his work. Admins ought
> to be there to handle the out-of-bounds cases, errors and
> emergencies. The easier you make a system for the admin, the
> better for everyone.

Translation:

  1) If possible make the "Right Thing" the obvious default for
  users.  If not possible, make the "Right Thing" as close as you
  can to a "Duh!" thing (for them).

  2) If you don't need to think about what to do, you shouldn't have
  to do it -- the system should do it for you.  Humans are there
  because they are intelligent, not because they can emulate
  machines.

> Unfortunately, hacking code is fun-work. Writing docs, user
> testing, interviewing typical users, more user testing, navigation
> design, good UIs -- that stuff is all work-work, and it tends to
> be left until late in the process, if ever.

I'm especially bad in that regard, and I haven't helped the
situation WRT Mailman.

> And I note for the record that my suggestion that everyone stop
> blaming mailman's problems on stupid users and instead go fix
> mailman fell on deaf ears -- but it seems to have shut down the
> thread at the same time. 

I'd translate the reaction, as:

  "Umm, oh yeah.  Well he's right you know, it kinda isn't a stupid
  luser problem, its uhh, that we didn't make the system help the
  user when we know we could have."

The tricky bit is ensuring that they (of COURSE this doesn't enclude
me) don't shuffle off embarrassed until the next time its easier to
blame someone else rather than looking closer to home.

  "Its all his fault officer!  He ran into my car!"

  "You were stopped in the middle of the intersection with your
  lights off in the middle of the night during a blackout right?"

  "Yeah, but he could have seen me if he'd looked!"

> Because it's easy/fun to blame users and call them stupid, but
> fixing mailman is hard work. And it seems most people here are
> interested in taking the easy road, and not deal with the real
> problem. I'm not surprised.

Putting the self-destruct button in the middle of the steering wheel
of the car

> I think I've earned one (and I don't care if you agree,
> actually. grin).

If I've not been sufficiently clear to date:

  I/we'll miss you.  Go relax.  Enjoy.  Get some R&R.  Take a deep
  breath.  Please.  Then hurry back -- there's a war on ya' know.


> But the first trick to building really good systems is to stop
> building things geeks like, and blaming non-geeks when they don't
> show interest in becoming a geek so they can use it. Until people
> figure that out and are willing to do the (hard) work of figuring
> out what REAL people need instead of what you want to give them,
> this chasm will still exist. It's an attitude thing more than
> anyhting else -- and the "my users are stupid" schitck is key to
> its existance.

AOL has how many million susbcribers?

What MLM has a control and configuration interface that would appeal
to the average AOL user?

Would an MLM whose interface did appeal to the average AOL user be
necessarily inherently broken/torqued/crippled in some way?

In terms of geekdom there's more of Joe Redneck than there are of us.

> And, of course, if you do the hard work, you run the risk of
> getting tired and needing a break... It's easier to slack off and
> blame others for not being good enough to understand what you've
> done.

One of my semi-regular rants (well, to myself) for one of my hobby
lists that lies close to my heart is that the users obviously don't
understand what I'm trying to do with the list and are fighting me
and making it more difficult.  

  "Are they so stupid that they can't see what I'm doing here?"

The rest of the analysis of that statement and its implications is
all pretty obvious, AND rote, AND predictable, and yes, the obvious
conclusions are also true.  

Its not a thing that helps me sleep at night.

> And thus endeth the lecture...

<bow>

-- 
J C Lawrence                                       claw at kanga.nu
---------(*)                          http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/
The pressure to survive and rhetoric may make strange bedfellows



From chuqui at plaidworks.com  Thu Jun 14 18:57:25 2001
From: chuqui at plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach)
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 09:57:25 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] This is unixstuff warning
In-Reply-To: <p05010408b74e96505323@[216.162.173.6]>
Message-ID: <200106141655.f5EGtg424785@lists.apple.com>

On Thursday, June 14, 2001, at 09:43 AM, Harold Paulson wrote:

>> Perhaps an install-time or
>> list-creation-time option to choose standard templates or 'newbie'
>> templates would be a good idea.

> An expert and newbie template, Yum!

Or, with a little more work, do both. New subscribers get the newbie 
template -- and for users who want a more expert version, allow them to 
set an option to turn it on. That's a classic way to make a system easy 
without turning it into a massive hassle for the more expert users. That 
ALSO allows you to make decisions what options are safe for new users to 
tweak, and what you ought to hide until they define themselves as 
experts.


--
Chuq Von Rospach, Internet Gnome <http://www.chuqui.com>
[<chuqui at plaidworks.com> = <me at chuqui.com> = <chuq at apple.com>]
Yes, yes, I've finally finished my home page. Lucky you.

   To the optimist, the glass is half full.
   To the pessimist, the glass is half empty.
   To the engineer, the glass is twice as big as it needs to be.





From alaric at babylon5.babcom.com  Thu Jun 14 19:04:16 2001
From: alaric at babylon5.babcom.com (Phil Stracchino)
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 10:04:16 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] This is unixstuff warning
In-Reply-To: <200106141447.f5EElDh24508@plaidworks.com>; from chuqui@plaidworks.com on Thu, Jun 14, 2001 at 07:55:22AM -0700
References: <14276.992504650@kanga.nu> <200106141447.f5EElDh24508@plaidworks.com>
Message-ID: <20010614100416.B4533@babylon5.babcom.com>

On Thu, Jun 14, 2001 at 07:55:22AM -0700, Chuq Von Rospach wrote:
> And I note for the record that my suggestion that everyone stop blaming 
> mailman's problems on stupid users and instead go fix mailman fell on 
> deaf ears -- but it seems to have shut down the thread at the same time. 
> Because it's easy/fun to blame users and call them stupid, but fixing 
> mailman is hard work. And it seems most people here are interested in 
> taking the easy road, and not deal with the real problem. I'm not 
> surprised.

But by that same token of being hard work, it takes a little time and
thought.


-- 
 Linux Now!   ..........Because friends don't let friends use Microsoft.
 phil stracchino   --   the renaissance man   --   mystic zen biker geek
    Vr00m:  2000 Honda CBR929RR   --   Cage:  2000 Dodge Intrepid R/T
 Previous vr00mage:  1986 VF500F (sold), 1991 VFR750F3 (foully murdered)



From satyap at satya.virtualave.net  Thu Jun 14 19:10:37 2001
From: satyap at satya.virtualave.net (Satya)
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 22:40:37 +0530 (IST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] This is unixstuff warning
In-Reply-To: <200106141655.f5EGtg424785@lists.apple.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0106142240060.4021-100000@hal9k.myip.org>

On Jun 14, 2001 at 09:57, Chuq Von Rospach wrote:

>Or, with a little more work, do both. New subscribers get the newbie 
>template -- and for users who want a more expert version, allow them to 
>set an option to turn it on. That's a classic way to make a system easy 
>without turning it into a massive hassle for the more expert users. That 
>ALSO allows you to make decisions what options are safe for new users to 
>tweak, and what you ought to hide until they define themselves as 
>experts.

You mean ``/set novice off''?

-- 
Satya. <URL:http://satya.virtualave.net/>
US-bound grad students! For pre-apps, see <URL:http://quickapps.cjb.net/>
LOTUS - Let only the users suffer




From alaric at babylon5.babcom.com  Thu Jun 14 19:07:57 2001
From: alaric at babylon5.babcom.com (Phil Stracchino)
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 10:07:57 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] non-digest and digest
In-Reply-To: <F44Dk4JdxVHYEuZFkTE0000b589@hotmail.com>; from padhp@hotmail.com on Thu, Jun 14, 2001 at 11:55:26AM -0400
References: <F44Dk4JdxVHYEuZFkTE0000b589@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <20010614100757.C4533@babylon5.babcom.com>

On Thu, Jun 14, 2001 at 11:55:26AM -0400, PAd [Pure As Diamond] wrote:
> Hi,
>   Can anyone explain what is the difference between non-dgest and digest 
> members.

In concept:
Ten people (for example) send messages to the list on a particular day.

 -- Non-digest members get each of those ten posts individually as they
    come in.

 -- Digest members get all ten together at the end of the day, collected
    into a single "digest" message.

Simple, no?


-- 
 Linux Now!   ..........Because friends don't let friends use Microsoft.
 phil stracchino   --   the renaissance man   --   mystic zen biker geek
    Vr00m:  2000 Honda CBR929RR   --   Cage:  2000 Dodge Intrepid R/T
 Previous vr00mage:  1986 VF500F (sold), 1991 VFR750F3 (foully murdered)



From alaric at babylon5.babcom.com  Thu Jun 14 19:24:32 2001
From: alaric at babylon5.babcom.com (Phil Stracchino)
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 10:24:32 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can You Delete A Message From an Archive?
In-Reply-To: <15144.52059.987678.571512@anthem.wooz.org>; from barry@digicool.com on Thu, Jun 14, 2001 at 10:34:03AM -0400
References: <OFED33CCB6.F535C080-ON86256A6A.0076186F@uscmail.dcn> <15144.52059.987678.571512@anthem.wooz.org>
Message-ID: <20010614102432.D4533@babylon5.babcom.com>

On Thu, Jun 14, 2001 at 10:34:03AM -0400, Barry A. Warsaw wrote:
> 
> >>>>> "JF" == Jim Fannin <Jim_Fannin at aotx.uscourts.gov> writes:
> 
>     JF> We have a unique circumstance in which a mail message was
>     JF> posted, approved and sent to a list which turned out to have
>     JF> erroneous information in it.  Management would like to remove
>     JF> the message from the archive which is public. Anyone know how
>     JF> to do this without killing the archive?
> 
> Just manually edit the message out of the .mbox file and re-run
> bin/arch.  Take care when you edit .mbox though; you want to remove
> the envelope-from header of the offending message too.


Speaking of archives, mine still aren't working.  Messages appear to be
being archived, but /opt/mailman/archives/private/<list>/index.html is
empty.  It's there, but it's zero bytes.

The files present in my private archives directory are:

/opt/mailman/archives/private:
ba-b5/  ba-b5.mbox/

/opt/mailman/archives/private/ba-b5:
2001-June/  2001-June.txt  2001-May/  2001-May.txt  database/  index.html

/opt/mailman/archives/private/ba-b5/2001-June:
000000.html  author.html  date.html  index.html@  subject.html
thread.html

/opt/mailman/archives/private/ba-b5/2001-May:
000000.html  author.html  date.html  index.html@  subject.html
thread.html

/opt/mailman/archives/private/ba-b5/database:

/opt/mailman/archives/private/ba-b5.mbox:
2001-May/  2001-May.txt  database/  index.html

/opt/mailman/archives/private/ba-b5.mbox/2001-May:
000000.html  author.html  date.html  index.html@  subject.html
thread.html

/opt/mailman/archives/private/ba-b5.mbox/database:


What's supposed to generate the index.html page, and how can I fix
it?  Are the database directories supposed to be empty?  Are these two
items connected?

I'm using Mailman 2.0.5, Python-2.1, and Postfix, on a Linux-2.4 system.




-- 
 Linux Now!   ..........Because friends don't let friends use Microsoft.
 phil stracchino   --   the renaissance man   --   mystic zen biker geek
    Vr00m:  2000 Honda CBR929RR   --   Cage:  2000 Dodge Intrepid R/T
 Previous vr00mage:  1986 VF500F (sold), 1991 VFR750F3 (foully murdered)



From benwa at mail.ocentrix.com  Thu Jun 14 19:26:10 2001
From: benwa at mail.ocentrix.com (Ben Burnett)
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 10:26:10 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Announcement only
Message-ID: <200106141726.f5EHQAh04069@mail.ocentrix.net>

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From chuqui at plaidworks.com  Thu Jun 14 19:48:56 2001
From: chuqui at plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach)
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 10:48:56 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] This is unixstuff warning 
In-Reply-To: <8588.992537507@kanga.nu>
Message-ID: <200106141747.f5EHlD401098@lists.apple.com>


On Thursday, June 14, 2001, at 09:51 AM, J C Lawrence wrote:

> Yup.  I see it in myself

Me, too -- lest anyone think I believe myself some instantiation of 
perfection. What I try to do, though, is realize that I'm getting 
grumpy, and then go somewhere quiet so that I don't leak my grumpy on 
others. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. But I'll be the first 
to admit that I'm sometimes ALL of the things I tend to rant about; it's 
one reason why I am expert at ranting about them.

>   1) If possible make the "Right Thing" the obvious default for
>   users.  If not possible, make the "Right Thing" as close as you
>   can to a "Duh!" thing (for them).

The harder you make it for them to screw up, the smarter your users will 
magically become.

The problem, of course, is that this is hard work. Most folks here know 
I write email systems for Apple. Many of you also know I have an outside 
consulting house (and attached hobby environment) at plaidworks. Have 
any of you ever wondered why Apple allows such an obvious conflict of 
interest -- an employee who also does the same thing as an outside 
venture?

Here's why -- first, the plaidworks stuff existed before I did email for 
apple. In reality, they more or less bought my technology (even though I 
was working for apple at the time doing non-email things) and my outside 
stuff is grandfathered. But my outside stuff is also my test environment 
and my prototyping facility. The users there get to use the systems for 
free, but they also have to put up with my installing stuff and trying 
it out on them and giving me feedback. I've very carefully built a place 
where I have a set of willing guinea pigs that I can throw stuff at, and 
ask them to poke it, prod it, break it and then comment on it. And they 
do -- and that population is widely diverse, from people who are 
technically expert in any number of fields to people who can barely log 
on to AOL reliably. and I've got them trained to talk to me, even 
(especially) those naive AOL users.

Anyone else out there do that? There's a horrible history among techies 
to "throw it over the transom" and assume everyone will understand it 
intuitively and see the genius of it. I come out of the support ranks -- 
I started as a programmer, moved into system administration, moved from 
there to support (ten years in the trenches with a phone welded to my 
ear), and now, I'm building systems designed for non-technical users to 
use. I've always felt every programmer in a company should spend three 
months on a phone answering questions -- but it's impossible to find 
programmers willing to do that, because, frankly, most can't handle it, 
and most don't want to know what their customers think.

so I come from a different view of this than many programmers. A neat 
hack is still a neat hack, but it means nothing if it doesn't make 
things better for the end user (god, it's a very Tron-link koan, no?) -- 
and I think most programmers don't have a clue what their users want or 
need, and don't particularly WANT to know. They want to pretend all of 
their users are clones of themselves -- because deep down in side, 
they're only interested in writing stuff for themselves.

And there are times when you ARE the expert and what the users want may 
be wrong (the whole list-* argument that keeps coming up is a classic 
case of the user asking for things the programmer shouldn't give 
them) -- but for most stuff, you really ought to be not just listening 
with the end users, but partnering with them. you write the code; but 
they're the ones that help you understand how to make the code usable.

>
> I'd translate the reaction, as:
>
>   "Umm, oh yeah.  Well he's right you know, it kinda isn't a stupid
>   luser problem, its uhh, that we didn't make the system help the
>   user when we know we could have."

true, but -- nobody volunteered to actually fix the problem. Instead, 
they all just got quiet. sigh. but I'm not surprised.

> Putting the self-destruct button in the middle of the steering wheel
> of the car

but that's okay, we put a nice sticker on it that says "don't push this 
button".

>   I/we'll miss you.  Go relax.  Enjoy.  Get some R&R.  Take a deep
>   breath.  Please.  Then hurry back -- there's a war on ya' know.

I am. I've lost almost two belt loops since I made this decision in 
April (see, one thing that was always second on my priority list was 
getting my weight under control). I'm getting LOTS done. I'm already a 
lot less burnt out -- enough to sometimes be tempted to jump back into 
things, but I realize I need more than a few weeks away from a modem. 
and now that I'm headed rapidly towards my mid-40's, and I've been doing 
this for 20 years plus, and maybe it's time for me to call it a day. 
When have you done your time? I dunno -- but even pilots in Vietnam were 
rotated home after they flew enough missions, even if the war continued.

  (point of fact. I wrote my first BBS code, in fortran, in 1978. By 
1980, it was being used by ~200 users across the state of california. By 
1982, I was already involved in various technical and admin activities 
in USENET, and in 1984, wrote the first usage guides for USENET (which 
may or may not have been the first formal FAQ for USENET...) and coined 
the term netiquette. And I've been doing stuff like that ever since...)

> AOL has how many million susbcribers?

Last number I had was 26 million.

> What MLM has a control and configuration interface that would appeal
> to the average AOL user?

well -- I think the one I wrote does pretty well (see:

	http://www.apple.com/signmeup
	http://applenews.lists.apple.com/unsubscribe
	http://applenews.lists.apple.com/change

)

although it's set up for a very specific type of mail list and wouldn't 
generalize out to a discussion list.  It handles about 25,000 database 
updates a day (subscribe, remove, change), and requires, oh, 250-300 
postmaster interventions a week or less, if you ignore having to 
manually whack at bogus bounce messages that don't follow any usable 
standard. And about 2/3 of those interventions are for people who don't 
read the instructions and want us to do it for them (and it's our policy 
to do so; they are, after all, our customers, and our position is that 
we don't run these systems  for OUR convenience. Something I think a lot 
of list admins don't 'get' -- subscribers are your customers, not your 
employees)

I'm currently trying (desperately) to finalize a project plan for my 
next generation of my e-mail beasts. The current one was specced to work 
well to a subscriber base of about 10 million users, and so far, so good 
(fingers crossed). But if I don't upgrade it soon, I'm gonna have 
problems, and it needs to do a whole bunch more, like full international 
support. One of my current grails is to build a system that'll 
automatically bring up pages in whatever language your browser says is 
your preferred language -- I have a neat design for that, if it works.

> Would an MLM whose interface did appeal to the average AOL user be
> necessarily inherently broken/torqued/crippled in some way?

As I said in another message, sometimes the answer is to have an 'expert 
mode' -- you have to make things easy for the naive users, but you 
really don't want to do that by driving your geeks crazy. So build in 
training wheels, and give them a switch that folds them back out of the 
way -- and let the user decide when to flip it.

FWIW, I've studied user tendencies a lot. Almost invariably, here's what 
you'll find. If you have something where you can set something one of 
two ways (messages or digests, say), 10% of your users HAVE to have it 
set one way, 10% of the users HAVE to have it set the other way, and the 
other 80% will simply use whatever your default it. I'm not sure it 
matters WHAT the default is or what you're setting, those numbers seem 
quite stable.

This means two things to me. First, it's very important to set defaults 
properly -- and frankly, messages/digest isn't a no-brainer, either. I 
really think the default ought to be digest, but that's not how mail 
lists operate. I think most naive users are happier with digests and not 
as likely to understand it exists -- and the user who prefers messages 
is more likely to know how to do that. And digest-as-default really 
reduces the overhead on the server, too. But I'm not willing to make 
that kind of change without a lot more research, since it'd be different 
than most other systems. And second, it sort of points out how silly 
most arguments over things like reply-to are; most users DON'T CARE. And 
for those users that do -- you can find a similar group that wants it 
the other way, too. Which implies admins shouldn't let the squeaky 
wheels set policy, and it implies that people who write this stuff ought 
to make EVERYTHING a user option if at all possible, simply to avoid 
these arguments... (grin)

> In terms of geekdom there's more of Joe Redneck than there are of us.

We are, basically, the priesthood. Back in, oh, 1982 or 1984, the 
Internet was the private hangout of that priesthood. I believe that 
among the old pharts I know, a lot of the anti-user attitude is really a 
wish to go back to the Good Old Days (whether conscious or not). And 
that ain't gonna happen.   A lot of my peers did their time and headed 
off to the vacation house (and there are days when I wish I'd done so, 
too). I've always felt there were new challenges and tried to reinvent 
myself to deal with the changes that came along with the net over 
time -- sometimes successfully, sometimes less so. I've generally had to 
completely re-engineer my list systems every 18 months or so (or at 
least redo the documentation from scratch) because the user population 
changes enough in that time that things that used to be assumed have to 
be explained, and technology changes require you to rethink what you do 
and how you do it. If you want a real giggle, try to track down a 
complete set of revisions to my user documentation for my lists, and see 
how they change over the years (and how the underlying administrative 
attitudes change, too...)

>   "Are they so stupid that they can't see what I'm doing here?"
>

you know what? sometimes the answer actually IS yes. But I find it's a 
lot less often than most folks want it to be.

--
Chuq Von Rospach, Internet Gnome <http://www.chuqui.com>
[<chuqui at plaidworks.com> = <me at chuqui.com> = <chuq at apple.com>]
Yes, yes, I've finally finished my home page. Lucky you.

Love is the process of my leading you gently back to yourself.
             - Saint Exupery

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From benwa at mail.ocentrix.com  Thu Jun 14 19:45:19 2001
From: benwa at mail.ocentrix.com (Ben Burnett)
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 10:45:19 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Announcement only
Message-ID: <200106141745.f5EHjJe04468@mail.ocentrix.net>

My apologies to all for bad formatting.

-Ben

------- Original Copy -------
>Subject: Fw: Re: [Mailman-Users] Announcement only 
>Date: 06/14/2001 10:37 AM
>From: Ben Burnett<benwa at ocentrix.com>
>To: benwa at ocentrix.com
>Reply-To: benwa at ocentrix.com

>On Thu, 14 Jun 2001, Jeremy Sharp wrote:
>> Can I ensure that my list:
>> - will not pass unauthorised posts for moderation, but
>just rejects them
>
>Jeremy,
>
>Ralf Laue has come up with a way to do this under very
>specific circumstances.  If you can configure your Mailman
>installation the way he outlines it will work, but it isn't
>a simple thing to do.  Below is an email he sent to me
>describing the process.  I hope you find it useful.
>
>-Ben
>
>------- Original Copy -------
>Hello,
>
>Some weeks ago, you have posted a useful document about how
>to setup
>announce only mailman lists to the Mailman-Developers list.
>
>If you should write something like a HOWTO about this
topic,
>you should
>consider one additional point:
>
>You describe how to configure a list to allow only certain
>addresses
>to post. However, these "sender" addresses can be faked
very
>easily.
>
>If you really have to avoid unauthorized posting, I suggest
>another way:
>1) Mailman and your mail server run on two different
>machines.
>2) A firewall does not allow SMTP connections to the
Mailman
>machine
>from
>the outside. SMTP is only possible to the mail server.
>3) We must allow administrative requests to be sent to the
>Mailman
>machine
>from the outside. To do this:
>- point the MX entry for mailman.you.com from your external
>DNS to the
>mailserver
>- Set up an internal DNS that cannot be accessed from the
>outside and
>define a host entry (and MX) for realmailman.you.com,
>pointing to the
>Mailman server.
>- Create some forwardings on the mail server:
>listname-admin at mailman.you.com will be forwarded to
>listname-admin at realmailman.you.com
>listname-owner at mailman.you.com will be forwarded to
>listname-owner at realmailman.you.com
>(sendmail users could use virtusertable)
>Be sure that mail to
>listname at mailman.you.com will NOT be forwarded to
>listname-owner at realmailman.you.com!
>Note that your mail server as an internal server has access
>to the
>internal
>DNS server. For this reason it can send mail to
>realmailman.you.com. A
>user from the
>outside has not, so that realmailman.you.com is not visible
>from the
>outside.
>
>This is a much stronger solution, because nobody with a
>faked sender
>address can
>send mail to the Mailman server. However, it is still not
>safe enough if
>you have to
>be afraid of internal users sending unauthorized e-mail to
>the list.
>
>Best Wishes,
>Ralf Laue
>





From chuqui at plaidworks.com  Thu Jun 14 20:04:00 2001
From: chuqui at plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach)
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 11:04:00 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] This is unixstuff warning
In-Reply-To: <20010614104148.A1741@zed.unbeat.com>
Message-ID: <200106141802.f5EI2G402886@lists.apple.com>

On Thursday, June 14, 2001, at 07:41 AM, JT wrote:

> Any job that brings you into contact with the
> general public is going to bring you to the inescapable conclusions
> that a good percentage of the population might as well walk around
> dressed in animal skins, dragging a human femur.

A small percentage. maybe 1/2 of 1%. The problem is that their hassle 
factor is way out of proportion to their numbers.

This is one of the classic reasons why things like usenet groups and 
mail lists don't scale well -- if you have a 500 member list and one 
dweeb on it, that's tolerable. If you have 5000 members and 10 dweebs, 
you and your members are going crazy from the noise. And it doesn't 
matter what size your list is, if a troll moves in. One is enough.


>  Try working a cash
> register for a couple months and you'll see how true this is.

or a telephone as a support person.

> For some reason (I'd guess the real power that technical competency
> brings), technical folks seem to have a little less patience to bring
> to dealing with the troublemakers.
>

Partly, I think, because computers tend to attract people who aren't 
necessarily socially adept. Which probably sounds like more of a slap 
than I intend it to be, so I'll apologize for it up front. But computers 
have moved out of the raise-floor room and into the living room, so even 
the people who build the things can no longer get away with just dealing 
with other geeks...

> 	1) Include the subscription address in the body of administrative
> 	mails sent to the individual user.  Truly half the people who
> 	can't unsubscribe don't even know what address is subscribed.
> 	Majordomo suffers this flaw too - and To headers don't cut it,
> 	forget about Received.  This should be in default installations.

And the reason this was done was performance and resources. In other 
words -- it makes it easier for the MLM and the server, not the user.

Which, when majordomo was designed and the user base was primarily small 
and technical, wasn't a bad design choice. Remember, majordomo's design 
goes back to the days of UUCP, 2400 baud modems and really slow 
networks. All of that changed, but the underlying designs haven't. This 
is one place where Lyris really has some good ideas, FWIW.  We need to 
get out of the mindset of doing things to make it easier for the 
computer/software/network/admin, and put the end-users (i.e. customer) 
first.

> 	2) Simplify the 'unsubscribe' option for people who've forgotten
> 	the passwords

One of the things I'm working on is creating a one-click unsubscribe for 
my systems. It'll encode enough user information in the URL to be able 
to auto-search for the user and bring that user record up on the web 
page; and also extend the email side to use the plus notation 
(unsubscribe+userdata at applenews.lists.apple.com) to pre-encode that as 
well, and get away from trying to use the From: line on email unsubs, 
since that's bogus on 5-7% of the email requests I see these days, 
thanks to hotmail, yahoo, corporate naming systems and people's wide use 
of .forwards...

and passwords on unsubs are silly (sorry, Barry). Users who want to 
unsubscribe want off. they don't want to play games, they just want to 
leave. I have, in the last decade, seen ONE instance of forged unsubs on 
my mail lists, and that was a guy who was trying to make a point and so 
unsubsribed me from my own lists. Let's just say he didn't appreciate 
the response.


--
Chuq Von Rospach, Internet Gnome <http://www.chuqui.com>
[<chuqui at plaidworks.com> = <me at chuqui.com> = <chuq at apple.com>]
Yes, yes, I've finally finished my home page. Lucky you.

You know, I Remember When I Used To Speak In Capitals, Too. It's 
addictive.
It also encourages people to poke sticks at you. Justifiably. (chuq, 
1992)



From barry at digicool.com  Thu Jun 14 20:04:23 2001
From: barry at digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 14:04:23 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] aliases.py + wrapper script
References: <20010614134721.A25825@stud.ntnu.no>
Message-ID: <15144.64679.689381.709241@anthem.wooz.org>

>>>>> "i" == iso  <jorgenru at stud.ntnu.no> writes:

    i> When I make a new list with the bin/newlist command, I want it
    i> to update the /etc/aliases list and run the newaliases command
    i> (use sendmail as MTA). aliases.py says:

This will be supported in MM2.1.



From barry at digicool.com  Thu Jun 14 20:27:42 2001
From: barry at digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 14:27:42 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] forwarded message from Guido van Rossum
Message-ID: <15145.542.502856.11584@anthem.wooz.org>


For those of you concerned in these sorts of issues, this is great
news.  I've done some limited testing of MM2.0.5 and MM2.1alpha
against Python 2.0.1 and it all seems to work.  I think we can finally
put the GPL-compatibility issue to bed.

-Barry

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From Joel.Votaw at bops.com  Thu Jun 14 20:46:57 2001
From: Joel.Votaw at bops.com (Joel Votaw)
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 13:46:57 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Allowing users to join without specifying pas
	swords
Message-ID: <A148C710488FD411BC4000508BD922D82B36B5@aussrv001.austin.bops.com>

Hmmm, the README says that script only currently works with unsubscribe
requests, but does not handle subscribe requests.  Is there any way to
subscribe without supplying a password?

It looks like Mailman is designed from the ground up with the assumption
that passwords will be used.  Is that correct?

Thanks again for the help!

        -Joel

This message, and any attachments which may accompany it, are for the sole
use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain information that is
confidential, privileged and exempt from disclosure under applicable law.
Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure, or distribution is prohibited. If
you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender and destroy
all copies of the original message.



-----Original Message-----
From: Satya [mailto:satyap at satya.virtualave.net]
Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2001 7:27 PM
To: 'mailman-users at python.org'
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Allowing users to join without specifying
passwords


On Jun 13, 2001 at 16:52, Joel Votaw wrote:

>I need to allow people to join and use the lists without specifying a
>password at all.  I've dug through the docs including with the
distribution,
>archives of this mailing list, and a number of Google searches and can't
>turn up the answer (however I've found plenty of information about turning
>off password reminder messages!).

Actually, this is a FAQ. Try
http://satya.virtualave.net/download.html#mailmanw

-- 
Satya. <URL:http://satya.virtualave.net/>
US-bound grad students! For pre-apps, see <URL:http://quickapps.cjb.net/>
Computer lie #1: you'll never use all that disk space.


------------------------------------------------------
Mailman-Users maillist  -  Mailman-Users at python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users



From luser at ahab.com  Thu Jun 14 20:51:06 2001
From: luser at ahab.com (JT)
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 14:51:06 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] This is unixstuff warning
In-Reply-To: <200106141802.f5EI2G402886@lists.apple.com>; from chuqui@plaidworks.com on Thu, Jun 14, 2001 at 11:04:00AM -0700
References: <20010614104148.A1741@zed.unbeat.com> <200106141802.f5EI2G402886@lists.apple.com>
Message-ID: <20010614145106.A326@zed.unbeat.com>

On Thu, Jun 14, 2001 at 11:04:00AM -0700, Chuq Von Rospach wrote:
[snip]
> A small percentage. maybe 1/2 of 1%. The problem is that their hassle 
> factor is way out of proportion to their numbers.

Agreed.

[snip]
> >  Try working a cash
> > register for a couple months and you'll see how true this is.
> 
> or a telephone as a support person.

*shudder* I was trying not to remember that one.

[snip]
> > 	2) Simplify the 'unsubscribe' option for people who've forgotten
> > 	the passwords
> 
> One of the things I'm working on is creating a one-click unsubscribe for 
> my systems. It'll encode enough user information in the URL to be able 
> to auto-search for the user and bring that user record up on the web 
> page; and also extend the email side to use the plus notation 
> (unsubscribe+userdata at applenews.lists.apple.com) to pre-encode that as 
> well, and get away from trying to use the From: line on email unsubs, 
> since that's bogus on 5-7% of the email requests I see these days, 
> thanks to hotmail, yahoo, corporate naming systems and people's wide use 
> of .forwards...

Woohoo!  This is better.  Ultimately, anything harder than "click here
to unsubscribe" isn't taking that extra step for the user.

> 
> and passwords on unsubs are silly (sorry, Barry). Users who want to 
> unsubscribe want off. they don't want to play games, they just want to 
> leave. I have, in the last decade, seen ONE instance of forged unsubs on 
> my mail lists, and that was a guy who was trying to make a point and so 
> unsubsribed me from my own lists. Let's just say he didn't appreciate 
> the response.

I see both sides to that one, actually.  It is, of course, far more
interesting to annoy people by *subscribing* them to lists than
unsubscribing them (easy enough on corporate sites, if not Mailman
ones ;-), but still don't want it done to me - most users won't have
the time or information to bother making the forger un-appreciate his
action.

There must be some way of doing this relatively low-impact and safe,
like sending out a crypt of a piece of private user info.  Of course,
this means customized emails for each user, which is not zero-impact,
but...

	1) Don't provide an unsubscribe link
	2) Accept the possibility of spoofing
	3) Accept higher delivery costs (customized mail)

The current flavor is 1), which does entail more work for users and
admins...  Geez, I'd better shut up before I find any more cats to
bell.






From satyap at satya.virtualave.net  Thu Jun 14 21:44:01 2001
From: satyap at satya.virtualave.net (Satya)
Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 01:14:01 +0530 (IST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Allowing users to join without specifying pas
 swords
In-Reply-To: <A148C710488FD411BC4000508BD922D82B36B5@aussrv001.austin.bops.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0106150112060.6111-100000@hal9k.myip.org>

On Jun 14, 2001 at 13:46, Joel Votaw wrote:

>Hmmm, the README says that script only currently works with unsubscribe
>requests, but does not handle subscribe requests.  Is there any way to
>subscribe without supplying a password?

Hmm. It has always been possible to subscribe without a password.

If you look at subscribe.pl, it takes a blank (or otherwise) message
to list-subscribe and constructs a proper list-request message. (At
least according to the comment at the top of the file.)

>It looks like Mailman is designed from the ground up with the assumption
>that passwords will be used.  Is that correct?

Looks that way. Barry?

>-----Original Message-----
>From: Satya [mailto:satyap at satya.virtualave.net]
>>I need to allow people to join and use the lists without specifying a
>>password at all.  I've dug through the docs including with the

>Actually, this is a FAQ. Try
>http://satya.virtualave.net/download.html#mailmanw

-- 
Satya. <URL:http://satya.virtualave.net/>
US-bound grad students! For pre-apps, see <URL:http://quickapps.cjb.net/>
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from a perl
script.




From chuqui at plaidworks.com  Thu Jun 14 21:43:30 2001
From: chuqui at plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach)
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 12:43:30 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] This is unixstuff warning 
In-Reply-To: <14354.992547434@2wire.com>
Message-ID: <200106141941.f5EJfl413402@lists.apple.com>

On Thursday, June 14, 2001, at 12:37 PM, J C Lawrence wrote:

> On three occasions we
> had unsub wars rather than "admit defeat" in an argument.

I love that kind of person. Hell, when I was young and had to win 
fights, I was that person.

it's kinda weird  to be doing the "in the Good Old days, when I was a 
young phart" crap on the mailman list, because I just found out that an 
old friend from the Good Old Days, someone I've been estranged from for 
years for reasons that I won't go into, just died.

Puts a whole bunch of things into perspective.

I think I'm gonna go find a tree to sit under. I'll be back later.



--
Chuq Von Rospach, Internet Gnome <http://www.chuqui.com>
[<chuqui at plaidworks.com> = <me at chuqui.com> = <chuq at apple.com>]
Yes, yes, I've finally finished my home page. Lucky you.

You know, I Remember When I Used To Speak In Capitals, Too. It's 
addictive.
It also encourages people to poke sticks at you. Justifiably. (chuq, 
1992)



From irata2600 at yahoo.com  Thu Jun 14 21:51:25 2001
From: irata2600 at yahoo.com (irata)
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 12:51:25 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] "SMTP " All recipients refused: host not found (question)
Message-ID: <20010614195125.95172.qmail@web12603.mail.yahoo.com>


I am running RH 7.1 , Sendmail , and Mailman 2.0.5

Basically I recieve this message in SMTP under /home/mailman/logs/smpt  and a number of ignores in smtp-failure 

The strange part is that the list works fine from 3:00 am (or so (inconsistant)) untill 7:00pm or so..  it's only in the times between 7 and 3 that these messages crop up.   crond is not running any unusual jobs, in fact qrunner is chuggin' away.  The only thing I was able to dig up via the archives here was that the mm_cfg.py has to have the correct SMTPHOST = 'localhost' setting   -  I changed my localhost name.  Could this be the only cause?  The qued messages are sent as soon as the hiccup period is over....

 



---------------------------------
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Yahoo! Buzz Index - Spot the hottest trends in music, movies,and more.
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From irata2600 at yahoo.com  Thu Jun 14 22:06:53 2001
From: irata2600 at yahoo.com (irata)
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 13:06:53 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] "SMTP " All recipients refused: host not found (question)
Message-ID: <20010614200653.73933.qmail@web12601.mail.yahoo.com>

I am running RH 7.1 , Sendmail , and Mailman 2.0.5

Basically I recieve this message in SMTP under
/home/mailman/logs/smpt  and a number of ignores in
smtp-failure 

The strange part is that the list works fine from 3:00
am (or so (inconsistant)) untill 7:00pm or so..  it's
only in the times between 7 and 3 that these messages
crop up.   crond is not running any unusual jobs, in
fact qrunner is chuggin' away.  The only thing I was
able to dig up via the archives here was that the
mm_cfg.py has to have the correct SMTPHOST =
'localhost' setting   -  I changed my localhost name. 
Could this be the only cause?  The qued messages are
sent as soon as the hiccup period is over....


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Spot the hottest trends in music, movies, and more.
http://buzz.yahoo.com/



From dagilbert at west.raytheon.com  Thu Jun 14 22:50:24 2001
From: dagilbert at west.raytheon.com (David A Gilbert)
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 13:50:24 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archive Threading Problem
Message-ID: <OF62AAAAC4.15393103-ON88256A6B.00725D80@rsc.raytheon.com>

Has anyone else had a problem with the archives not showing the "RE:" in
the list of messages? Am using Mailman2.04 and Postfix.  I found another
message regarding this problem in the archives which is shown below. Any
suggestions appreciated.  Please reply to me directly. Thank you.

David Gilbert
dagilbert at west.raytheon.com

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Travis Llewellyn travisll at comfedcu.org
Wed, 7 Feb 2001 15:44:33 -0600

     Previous message: [Mailman-Users] Digest questions...
     Next message: [Mailman-Users] Translations
     Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ]



I am having a problem with a list I have setup.
This is the only list on this server and the first time I have installed v2
of mailman.

I have reinstall and recompiled mailman so many times now that I think I
could do it from memory.

So here is my problem
None of my messages in the archives are showing up threaded. They all show
up a new messages.  Is there something that I have missed?


All the messages I send are getting to the archives OK. They all show up and
I can click on them and read them.

What it is doing is not threading them in the archives.

If I send a message subject test to the list it goes to the list members and
the archive ok.

When I receive the message in my inbox I click on reply to all. This sends a
message to the user and back to the list.

Both messages show up in the archive but they both show up as Test as the
subject as two distinct threads.

It looks Like this
eg...

[LFD-List]Test
[LFD-List]Test

When it should look like this

[LFD-List]Test
..Re:[LFD-List]Test

Does that make it a little clearer.

Thank you again for you assistance.

Travis








From Oo1morninstars at aol.com  Thu Jun 14 23:23:34 2001
From: Oo1morninstars at aol.com (Oo1morninstars at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 17:23:34 EDT
Subject: [Mailman-Users] stop email
Message-ID: <10e.12fa19e.285a8556@aol.com>

I wish to stop getting email from you !      thank you!
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From chuqui at plaidworks.com  Fri Jun 15 01:19:48 2001
From: chuqui at plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach)
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 16:19:48 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] This is unixstuff warning 
In-Reply-To: <200106141941.f5EJfl413402@lists.apple.com>
Message-ID: <200106142318.f5ENI4405949@lists.apple.com>

On Thursday, June 14, 2001, at 12:43 PM, Chuq Von Rospach wrote:

> I think I'm gonna go find a tree to sit under. I'll be back later.
>

sorry, folks. That was meant to go privately, not to the entire list. I 
pushed the wrong button.


--
Chuq Von Rospach, Internet Gnome <http://www.chuqui.com>
[<chuqui at plaidworks.com> = <me at chuqui.com> = <chuq at apple.com>]
Yes, yes, I've finally finished my home page. Lucky you.

Shroedinger:
  We can never really be sure which side of the road the chicken is on.  
It's all a matter of chance.  Like a game of dice.

Einstein, refuting Schroedinger:
  God does not play dice with chickens.
Heisenburg:
We can determine how fast the chicken travelled, or where it ended up, 
but we cannot determine why it did so.





From barry at digicool.com  Fri Jun 15 02:06:19 2001
From: barry at digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 20:06:19 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Allowing users to join without specifying pas
 swords
References: <A148C710488FD411BC4000508BD922D82B36B5@aussrv001.austin.bops.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.21.0106150112060.6111-100000@hal9k.myip.org>
Message-ID: <15145.20859.341855.574205@anthem.wooz.org>

>>>>> "S" == Satya  <satyap at satya.virtualave.net> writes:

    >> It looks like Mailman is designed from the ground up with the
    >> assumption that passwords will be used.  Is that correct?

    S> Looks that way. Barry?

In effect yes.  However with MM2.1 users can just about get away with
never needing to supply (or know) their passwords for the common
things like subscribing and unsubscribing.  MM2.1 will auto-generate a
password for them if the don't supply one, and it uses a mailback
confirmation (which accepts a reply or web-click to confirm) for
unsubs.  They will still need their password in order to modify their
options, but I see that as an advanced task that most users will never
have to perform.  (Has anybody looked at the user login page in the
CVS snapshot?)

I definitely hear what Chuq's saying, and what others have asked for
quite often.  I'm mulling over ways to make unsubscribing dead simple
both for users to accomplish, and for admin's to explain how it's done.

(Aside: Ever tried explaining to a user how they can get unsubscribed,
in every last gory detail?  It sucks.)

Making this easier for the user will also ease a significant admin
burden, one I also feel all too painfully. ;)

-Barry



From ewilts at ewilts.org  Fri Jun 15 02:09:24 2001
From: ewilts at ewilts.org (Ed Wilts)
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 19:09:24 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moving mailman to a new machine
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0106140935120.8345-100000@geula.njit.edu>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0106140935120.8345-100000@geula.njit.edu>
Message-ID: <0106141909241H.24130@linux1.ewilts.org>

On Thursday 14 June 2001 08:39 am, Gedaliah Wolosh wrote:

> I need to move mailman to a new machine.  Is there any reason I can't just
> tar up the mailman home directory and unpack it on the new machine??  The
> original machine will be taken out of service and the new machine will be
> given the same name.

I've done this twice.  It's not trivial (at least it wasn't for me), but it 
can be done.  There are a couple of things you need to watch for.  First, 
make sure the file owners and protections are properly set.  This usually 
gets tricky if you're building a new system since your uids/gids probably 
changed.  You may find it easier to see what they were when you started and 
set them to be the same on the new machine.  Secondly, the archives are all 
done with links, and you need to make sure that they're set back properly.  I 
ended up moving from one system that had the mailman tree in /home/mailman to 
another that was /var/mailman so I fought with it for a while to get it 
right, but eventually it all worked.

If you've got good Unix skills to begin with, it shouldn't take you too long. 
If you don't, plan on killing an hour or two to get it right.

Good luck,	
	.../Ed
-- 
Ed Wilts, Mounds View, MN, USA
mailto:ewilts at ewilts.org



From reb at taco.com  Fri Jun 15 02:52:06 2001
From: reb at taco.com (Phydeaux)
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 20:52:06 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] stop email
In-Reply-To: <10e.12fa19e.285a8556@aol.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010614205143.088a9408@mail.taco.com>

At 05:23 PM 6/14/2001 -0400, Oo1morninstars at aol.com wrote:
>I wish to stop getting email from you !      thank you!

I can assure you that the feeling is mutual! Thank you.




From Oo1morninstars at aol.com  Fri Jun 15 08:47:56 2001
From: Oo1morninstars at aol.com (Oo1morninstars at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 02:47:56 EDT
Subject: [Mailman-Users] (no subject)
Message-ID: <13.1710bfa0.285b099c@aol.com>

I will not take bull shit and smart emails! Just take me off your email list

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From chuqui at plaidworks.com  Fri Jun 15 08:55:04 2001
From: chuqui at plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach)
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 23:55:04 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <13.1710bfa0.285b099c@aol.com>
Message-ID: <200106150653.f5F6rK416373@lists.apple.com>

you're not on any of my mail lists. Have you considered following the 
instructions?

Do you realize that abusing the people you're asking (well, demanding) 
help from is counter productive?

Do you know how stupid you're sounding right now?


On Thursday, June 14, 2001, at 11:47 PM, Oo1morninstars at aol.com wrote:

> I will not take bull shit and smart emails! Just take me off your email 
> list
>

--
Chuq Von Rospach, Internet Gnome <http://www.chuqui.com>
[<chuqui at plaidworks.com> = <me at chuqui.com> = <chuq at apple.com>]
Yes, yes, I've finally finished my home page. Lucky you.

I'll try being nicer if you'll try being
smarter.


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From nb at thinkcoach.com  Fri Jun 15 09:04:09 2001
From: nb at thinkcoach.com (Norbert Bollow)
Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 09:04:09 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Allowing users to join without specifying pas
 swords
In-Reply-To: <15145.20859.341855.574205@anthem.wooz.org> (barry@digicool.com)
References: <A148C710488FD411BC4000508BD922D82B36B5@aussrv001.austin.bops.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.21.0106150112060.6111-100000@hal9k.myip.org> <15145.20859.341855.574205@anthem.wooz.org>
Message-ID: <200106150704.f5F749m11832@quill>

> I definitely hear what Chuq's saying, and what others have asked for
> quite often.  I'm mulling over ways to make unsubscribing dead simple
> both for users to accomplish, and for admin's to explain how it's done.

How about this:  Put a link "to unsubscribe click here" at the
bottom of every mail you send out.  That link has the
subscriber's email address embedded in it, and it leads to a CGI
program which checks (by means of a reverse DNS lookup) whether
the IP address from which the click comes belongs to the same
domain as the email address for which unsubscription is
requested.

If yes, unsub immediately.

If no, require email confirmation for the unsub request.

Greetings, Norbert.

-- 
Norbert Bollow, Weidlistr.18, CH-8624 Gruet (near Zurich, Switzerland)
Tel +41 1 972 20 59     Fax +41 1 972 20 69      nb at freedevelopers.net



From juha at saarinen.org  Fri Jun 15 09:12:03 2001
From: juha at saarinen.org (Juha Saarinen)
Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 19:12:03 +1200 (NZST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <13.1710bfa0.285b099c@aol.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0106151909030.30338-100000@vimfuego.saarinen.org>

I don't see the magic word...

I'm tempted to write an RFC which sets out the conditions to acquire an
Internet User's License thanks to your message.

-- 
Regards,


Juha

PGP fingerprint:
B7E1 CC52 5FCA 9756 B502  10C8 4CD8 B066 12F3 9544

On Fri, 15 Jun 2001, Oo1morninstars at aol.com wrote:

> I will not take bull shit and smart emails! Just take me off your email list
>
>




From enriko.groen at netivity.nl  Fri Jun 15 09:17:34 2001
From: enriko.groen at netivity.nl (Enriko Groen)
Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 09:17:34 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] This is unixstuff warning 
Message-ID: <510EAC2065C0D311929200A0247252622F781D@NETIVITY-FS>


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Chuq Von Rospach [mailto:chuqui at plaidworks.com]
> 
> sorry, folks. That was meant to go privately, not to the 
> entire list. I 
> pushed the wrong button.

Owh... these bloody newbies on the net...

--
Enriko Groen, Hosting manager
--------------------------------------------------------
netivity bv   www.netivity.nl   enriko.groen at netivity.nl
038 - 850 1000   van nagellstraat 4      8011 eb  zwolle
--------------------------------------------------------



From claw at kanga.nu  Fri Jun 15 09:37:20 2001
From: claw at kanga.nu (J C Lawrence)
Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 00:37:20 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] This is unixstuff warning 
In-Reply-To: Message from Enriko Groen <enriko.groen@netivity.nl> 
   of "Fri, 15 Jun 2001 09:17:34 +0200." <510EAC2065C0D311929200A0247252622F781D@NETIVITY-FS> 
References: <510EAC2065C0D311929200A0247252622F781D@NETIVITY-FS> 
Message-ID: <18031.992590640@kanga.nu>

On Fri, 15 Jun 2001 09:17:34 +0200 
Enriko Groen <enriko.groen at netivity.nl> wrote:

> Owh... these bloody newbies on the net...

Amateurs!  Really!

-- 
J C Lawrence                                       claw at kanga.nu
---------(*)                          http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/
The pressure to survive and rhetoric may make strange bedfellows



From amyc at gw.libofmich.lib.mi.us  Fri Jun 15 12:56:13 2001
From: amyc at gw.libofmich.lib.mi.us (Amy Briggs)
Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 06:56:13 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archives not wrapping
Message-ID: <sb29b198.025@gw.libofmich.lib.mi.us>

I've got Mailman 2.05 up and running on Solaris8 with Apache1.3.19 & Python 2.1.  Everything seems to be working fine but archived messages do not wrap.  

Has anyone had this problem?  I've checked the faq and list archives and didn't see anything listed there about this.

TIA,

Amy




From simeray at tektonika.com  Fri Jun 15 13:15:29 2001
From: simeray at tektonika.com (Alain Simeray)
Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 13:15:29 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] config problem with mailman and postfix
Message-ID: <v0421010bb74f9c438eff@[213.41.15.196]>

hi!

I'm trying to set up Mailman on a RedHat 6.2 machine that has postfix setup
instead of sendmail.

I've read the docs and the web interface works perfectly.

I've created a mailing list called test2 with only myself subscribed to it
but when I send mail to the mailing list, I got the following bounce message:

<test2 at gladiator.tektonika2.com>: Command died with status 2:
  "/home/mailman/mail/wrapper post test 2". Command output: Failure to exec
script. Wanted gid 12, GOT gid 99. (Reconfigure to take 99?)

I've tried reconfiguring with --with-mail-gid="mail  nobody mailman"
but this doesn't seem to help.

Can anybody tell me what I'm doing wrong?

FWIW: mail is gid 12, nobody gid 99 and mailman gid 502

Thanks.

Alain Simeray



From Nigel.Metheringham at VData.co.uk  Fri Jun 15 15:07:39 2001
From: Nigel.Metheringham at VData.co.uk (Nigel Metheringham)
Date: 15 Jun 2001 14:07:39 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Suggestion - cancelable postings
Message-ID: <992610459.1168.4.camel@gaspode.localnet>

I fairly often get the situation where list postings are sent from the
wrong account (ie not the subscribed account) and so get held for
moderation with a message sent back to the original user.  The user
often fires off another copy (or 2) from the correct email address.

Meanwhile I can get to releasing the moderated postings, so a double
posting hits the list.  In some cases triple postings can happen since I
only skim the message for approrpiateness and do not necessarily see
that there are 2 the same...

One way of helping this situation out, although it then generates a race
condition (between the original poster and the moderator), is that the
notification to the original sender could contain a URL and/or a email
means to allow the original post to be cancelled from the moderation
queue.

Thoughts?

	Nigel.
--
[ Nigel Metheringham           Nigel.Metheringham at InTechnology.co.uk ]
[ Phone: +44 1423 850000                         Fax +44 1423 858866 ]
[ - Comments in this message are my own and not ITO opinion/policy - ]
[ ----- Security is not an add-on -- security is a way of life ----- ]




From y.nugroho at student.umist.ac.uk  Fri Jun 15 15:59:26 2001
From: y.nugroho at student.umist.ac.uk (Yanuar Nugroho)
Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 14:59:26 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] anonymity feature
Message-ID: <01d401c0f5a3$63e68520$1fa95882@halls.umist.ac.uk>

Dear folks,

I'm doing a research on "how anonymity in CMC influences communication
behaviour among participants/communicators". This will be done in
asynchronous mode, and I have chosen to use GNU Mailman rather than any
other systems.

This is the list of the "anonymity feature" requirements that should be
ideally able to include.
1. Removing the sender identities (it has been solved, i think. in "privacy"
setting and cleanse.py, right?)
2. Archiving sent message (how is actually a message archived in Mailman?)
3. Adding additional text from a database into a message before being
distributed (is it possible to create text-based database and include a
particular data to the message? how can Mailman query and retrieve a data to
be included -- how can Mailman "scan" a message and find a "keyword" and use
the keyword to retrieve relevant data?
4. Other idea for the no.3 above, using "phantom messages" as the database.
The problem is how can Mailman automatically add a phantom message to a
message?
5. How to customise the text-wrapping (text area in the email) in Mailman?
How to set, for example, the LEFT Margin to be 5 characters?

I think I have to stop. It has been too much. Sorry-sorry-sorry very much if
this realy bothers you. I am desperate in doing this research ... :) I don't
know how to do this. Not even a clue. I'm totally a new comer in Mailman,
Python and this GNU environment, but I want to learn. Anyone can help me?
(thanks to Barry Warsaw who encouraged me to join this milist. also for
Yaron Zarfati, Detlef Neubauer & JC Lawrence who tried to solve my previous
problems in handling the header. thanks!:)).

Cheers /Yanuar.
PS. If any of you need further info, I can send my preliminary works/report
via your individual emails. This probably helps you to know the context of
my research.


Yanuar Nugroho
http://yanuar-nugroho.mainpage.net
http://www.yanuar-n.net
----------------------------------------
PG. Stud. MSc. Information Systems Engineering,
Dept. of Computation, UMIST, Manchester - UK





From MarkRoedel at letu.edu  Fri Jun 15 17:43:47 2001
From: MarkRoedel at letu.edu (Mark Roedel)
Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 10:43:47 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] config problem with mailman and postfix
Message-ID: <CF8E50F639267A448696655B7465DA4A05981D@rachael.letnet.net>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Alain Simeray [mailto:simeray at tektonika.com]
> Sent: Friday, June 15, 2001 6:15 AM
> To: mailman-users at python.org
> Subject: [Mailman-Users] config problem with mailman and postfix
> 
> 
> I'm trying to set up Mailman on a RedHat 6.2 machine that has 
> postfix setup instead of sendmail.
> 
> I've read the docs and the web interface works perfectly.
> 
> I've created a mailing list called test2 with only myself 
> subscribed to it but when I send mail to the mailing list,
> I got the following bounce message:
> 
> <test2 at gladiator.tektonika2.com>: Command died with status 2:
>   "/home/mailman/mail/wrapper post test 2". Command output: 
> Failure to exec
> script. Wanted gid 12, GOT gid 99. (Reconfigure to take 99?)
> 
> I've tried reconfiguring with --with-mail-gid="mail  nobody mailman"
> but this doesn't seem to help.

Based on the output snippet you posted, I'd be inclined to try

	--with-mail-gid=99

---
Mark Roedel (roedelm at letu.edu)  ||  "There cannot be a crisis next week.
Systems Programmer / WebMaster  ||   My schedule is already full."
     LeTourneau University      ||                    -- Henry Kissinger




From padhp at hotmail.com  Fri Jun 15 18:04:16 2001
From: padhp at hotmail.com (PAd [Pure As Diamond])
Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 12:04:16 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] (no subject)
Message-ID: <F142HbU0wOcVqws1QJK00009140@hotmail.com>

Hi,
   i was looking for a way not to send e-mail after subscription, confrim 
e-mail from subscriber back to list server. Also i want to stop sending 
password everymonth to the subscriber.

   How to restrict subscriber to post e-mail to a specfic group?

Thanks......


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com




From bob at nleaudio.com  Fri Jun 15 18:22:56 2001
From: bob at nleaudio.com (Bob Puff@NLE)
Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 12:22:56 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] unsubscriptions
References: <E15Aw25-0004Uz-00@mail.python.org>
Message-ID: <3B2A365F.8139339E@nleaudio.com>

> How about this:  Put a link "to unsubscribe click here" at the
> bottom of every mail you send out.  That link has the
> subscriber's email address embedded in it,

That's what has been discussed - it can't be done in the current state, cause the MTA gets stuff in batches, not just one message at a time.

> and it leads to a CGI
> program which checks (by means of a reverse DNS lookup) whether
> the IP address from which the click comes belongs to the same
> domain as the email address for which unsubscription is
> requested.

That will work for maybe 10% of addresses.  I know that none of my many internet connections reverse lookup to anything close to my email address domain.  That includes the machine IP address, as well as my mail server address.

Unfortunately, no simple way around it.

Bob



From MarkRoedel at letu.edu  Fri Jun 15 18:19:50 2001
From: MarkRoedel at letu.edu (Mark Roedel)
Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 11:19:50 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Allowing users to join without specifying passwords
Message-ID: <CF8E50F639267A448696655B7465DA4A063D53@rachael.letnet.net>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Norbert Bollow [mailto:nb at thinkcoach.com]
> Sent: Friday, June 15, 2001 2:04 AM
> To: mailman-users at python.org
> Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Allowing users to join without specifying
> passwords
> 
> 
>> I definitely hear what Chuq's saying, and what others have
>> asked for quite often.  I'm mulling over ways to make
>> unsubscribing dead simple both for users to accomplish,
>> and for admin's to explain how it's done.
> 
> How about this:  Put a link "to unsubscribe click here" at the
> bottom of every mail you send out.  That link has the
> subscriber's email address embedded in it, and it leads to a CGI

The problem with that, as was pointed out in the recent "is it possible
to use Mailman as an electronic mail-merge program" thread, is that it'd
require messages to be crafted individually for each recipient, which
would be a step backwards in terms of efficiency, and might affect how
well Mailman can scale.

Still, if it were configurable, it's the sort of tradeoff that might
well be worthwhile for some installations...

> program which checks (by means of a reverse DNS lookup) whether
> the IP address from which the click comes belongs to the same
> domain as the email address for which unsubscription is
> requested.
>
> If yes, unsub immediately.

Interesting idea, but I wonder how well it'd work in actual practice.
Do we really want anybody at aol.com to be able to act on behalf of anyone
else in that domain?  

The other thing we'd need to be careful of is our definition of what
constitutes "the same domain".  That'd presumably have to be
configurable on a TLD-by-TLD basis to be able to handle everything from
ibm.com to cambridge.ac.uk or senate.state.tx.us...
 

---
Mark Roedel (roedelm at letu.edu)  ||  "There cannot be a crisis next week.
Systems Programmer / WebMaster  ||   My schedule is already full."
     LeTourneau University      ||                    -- Henry Kissinger




From MarkRoedel at letu.edu  Fri Jun 15 18:28:55 2001
From: MarkRoedel at letu.edu (Mark Roedel)
Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 11:28:55 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] stop email
Message-ID: <CF8E50F639267A448696655B7465DA4A063D54@rachael.letnet.net>

-----Original Message-----
From: Oo1morninstars at aol.com [mailto:Oo1morninstars at aol.com]
Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2001 4:24 PM
To: mailman-users at python.org
Subject: [Mailman-Users] stop email


> I wish to stop getting email from you !      thank you! 

It's an unfortunate fact of life that very few of the people on this
list of over 1500 users of the mailman software are able to do anything
about this.  Luckily, it's something you *should* be able to take care
of yourself.

At the bottom of each e-mail you receive from this list is a link to

	http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users

Go there, and look for the part of the page that says "Mailman-Users
Subscribers".

Enter your e-mail address in the blank there and hit the "Edit Options"
button.

If you don't know the password that you're subscribed with, hit the
"E-mail My Password To Me" button and wait for that e-mail to arrive.

Enter your password in the box under "Unsubscribing from Mailman-Users"
and hit the "Unsubscribe" button.


---
Mark Roedel (roedelm at letu.edu)  ||  "There cannot be a crisis next week.
Systems Programmer / WebMaster  ||   My schedule is already full."
     LeTourneau University      ||                    -- Henry Kissinger




From arandall at auntminnie.com  Fri Jun 15 18:33:42 2001
From: arandall at auntminnie.com (Amanda)
Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 09:33:42 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] (no subject)
References: <200106150653.f5F6rK416373@lists.apple.com>
Message-ID: <3B2A38E6.A81E8A3A@auntminnie.com>

Easy solution to this one...

::filtering turkey to the bitbucket::

Ahh. So quiet, so peaceful...


=)
Amanda


Chuq Von Rospach wrote:

> you're not on any of my mail lists. Have you considered following the instructions?
>
> Do you realize that abusing the people you're asking (well, demanding) help from is counter productive?
>
> Do you know how stupid you're sounding right now?
>
> On Thursday, June 14, 2001, at 11:47 PM, Oo1morninstars at aol.com wrote:
>
>      I will not take bull shit and smart emails! Just take me off your email list
>
> --
> Chuq Von Rospach, Internet Gnome <http://www.chuqui.com>
> [<chuqui at plaidworks.com> = <me at chuqui.com> = <chuq at apple.com>]
> Yes, yes, I've finally finished my home page. Lucky you.
>
> I'll try being nicer if you'll try being
> smarter.




From arandall at auntminnie.com  Fri Jun 15 18:39:51 2001
From: arandall at auntminnie.com (Amanda)
Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 09:39:51 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] config problem with mailman and postfix
References: <v0421010bb74f9c438eff@[213.41.15.196]>
Message-ID: <3B2A3A57.2D6B6056@auntminnie.com>

Alain,

This may or may not apply to you, but it's worth considering.

Maybe try reconfiguring mailman with-mail-gid=99  (and 99 alone) to see if that
will help? It may not, but...

I'm running qmail, not postfix, but somehow the "user" that's passing mail in
qmail got set to the wrong GID, and now no matter what I do, I can't seem to fix
it. It is definitely an MTA thing for me, though, and not Mailman.

(Anyone who would like to volunteer to help me beat qmail into submission, I'd
appreciate it. I'm getting no answers from the qmail list. I've tried cleaning up
everything I can find and reinstalling, and it ain't helping.)

Ergh...

=)
Amanda


Alain Simeray wrote:

> hi!
>
> I'm trying to set up Mailman on a RedHat 6.2 machine that has postfix setup
> instead of sendmail.
>
> I've read the docs and the web interface works perfectly.
>
> I've created a mailing list called test2 with only myself subscribed to it
> but when I send mail to the mailing list, I got the following bounce message:
>
> <test2 at gladiator.tektonika2.com>: Command died with status 2:
>   "/home/mailman/mail/wrapper post test 2". Command output: Failure to exec
> script. Wanted gid 12, GOT gid 99. (Reconfigure to take 99?)
>
> I've tried reconfiguring with --with-mail-gid="mail  nobody mailman"
> but this doesn't seem to help.
>
> Can anybody tell me what I'm doing wrong?
>
> FWIW: mail is gid 12, nobody gid 99 and mailman gid 502
>
> Thanks.
>
> Alain Simeray
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users maillist  -  Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users




From bob at nleaudio.com  Fri Jun 15 19:01:00 2001
From: bob at nleaudio.com (Bob Puff@NLE)
Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 13:01:00 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] OT: light-hearted unsubscriptions
Message-ID: <3B2A3F4B.F8BCC59F@nleaudio.com>

ALl this talk recently about unsubscriptions... This came from another list I am on:

Message: 27
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 16:17:20 -0700
To: interchange-users at developer.akopia.com
From: Dan B <db at cyclonehq.dnsalias.net>
Subject: Re: [ic] (no subject)
Cc: danb at cyclonecomputers.com
Reply-To: interchange-users at lists.akopia.com

At 10:30 AM 6/14/2001 -0400, you wrote:
>I want to "Unsubscripe" too :)
>
>Steingrimur Steingrimsson wrote:
> >
> > Unsubscripe

Definition: un-sub-scrip-e:

UN
abbr. United Nations.

sub1 (sb)
n. Informal See submarine. See submarine. See Regional Note at submarine.


scrip3 (skrp)
n. Archaic
A wallet, small satchel, or bag.

e
earl (?rl)
n. A British nobleman next in rank above a viscount and below a marquis, 
corresponding to a count in continental Europe. Abbr. E. Used as a title 
for such a nobleman.
Obviously, Mr. Steingrimsson and Mr. Johnson are British 
spies!  ("noblemen", a common term for spies).  And they are using the 
public interchange-users mailing list to send secret messages!!!  Luckily, 
I have decoded their secret message:

         "British Noblemen: use bags to conceal the UN submarines!"

We must act now!  The only tool that can save us is the infamous 
Unsubscription kit!

Unsubscribe Kit(TM)

    Call your ISP and ask them to Mail you an Unsubscribe Kit.

    It should be the standard no-fault type. Depending on your 
requirements, System A and/or System B can be used. When operating System 
A, depress lever and a plastic dalkron unsubscriber will be dispensed 
through the slot immediately underneath. When you have fastened the 
adhesive lip, attach connection marked by the large "X" outlet hose. Twist 
the silver-colored ring one inch below the connection point until you feel 
it lock.

    The kit is now ready for use. The Cin-Eliminator is activated by the 
small switch on the lip. When securing, twist the ring back to its initial 
condition, so that the two orange lines meet. Disconnect. Place the dalkron 
unsubscriber in the vacuum receptacle to the rear. Activate by pressing the 
blue button.

    The controls for System B are located on the opposite side. The red 
release switch places the Cin-Eliminator into position; it can be adjusted 
manually up or down by pressing the blue manual release button. The opening 
is self-adjusting. To secure after use, press the green button, which 
simultaneously activates the evaporator and returns the Cin-Eliminator to 
its storage position.

    You may log off if the green exit light is on over the evaporator. If 
the red light is illuminated, one of the Cin-Eliminator requirements has 
not been properly implemented. Press the "List Guy" call button on the 
right of the evaporator. He will secure all facilities from his control panel.

    To use the Auto-Unsub, first undress and place all your clothes in the 
clothes rack. Put on the velcro slippers located in the cabinet immediately 
below. Enter the shower, taking the entire kit with you. On the control 
panel to your upper right upon entering you will see a "Shower seal" 
button. Press to activate. A green light will then be  illuminated 
immediately below. On the intensity knob, select the desired setting. Now 
depress the Auto-Unsub activation lever. Bathe normally.

    The Auto-Unsub will automatically go off after three minutes unless you 
activate the "Manual off" override switch by flipping it up. When you are 
ready to leave, press the blue "Shower seal" release button. The door will 
open and you may leave. Please remove the velcro slippers and place them in 
their container.

    If you prefer the ultrasonic log-off mode, press the indicated blue 
button. When the twin panels open, pull forward by rings A & B. The knob to 
the left, just below the blue light, has three settings, low, medium or 
high. For normal use, the medium setting is suggested.

    After these settings have been made, you can activate the device by 
switching to the "ON" position the clearly marked red switch. If during the 
unsubscribing operation, you wish to change the settings, place the "manual 
off" override switch in the "OFF" position. You may now make the change and 
repeat the cycle. When the green exit light goes on, you may log off and 
have lunch. Please close the door behind you.

Because hey, when it rains it pours (bad jokes, that is).

Dan Browning, Cyclone Computer Systems, danb at cyclonecomputers.com



From barry at digicool.com  Fri Jun 15 19:01:57 2001
From: barry at digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 13:01:57 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moving mailman to a new machine
References: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0106140935120.8345-100000@geula.njit.edu>
	<0106141909241H.24130@linux1.ewilts.org>
Message-ID: <15146.16261.131608.592699@anthem.wooz.org>

>>>>> "EW" == Ed Wilts <ewilts at ewilts.org> writes:

    EW> I've done this twice.  It's not trivial (at least it wasn't
    EW> for me), but it can be done.

Yeah, I've done it /at least/ that many times, and I completely
agree. ;/

Every time I move a Mailman installation I think about how nice it
would be to make it easier, but then other things always take
precedence.

It's complicated by the need to coordinate with your web server and
incoming mail.  You need to shut those down while you move your lists,
or you risk having to resync your config.db files.  My approach has
been to do a fresh install of the software in the new location, make
sure that works independently of your old install, then move the lists
one by one.

IIRC, first I move the list/<mylist> subdir, and the
archives/private/<mlist>.mbox directory.  Then you run bin/move_list
(to fix the entirely bogus directories in the config.db file -- I
should get rid of this for 2.1).  Then you run bin/arch to regenerate
the archives.  I usually then hit the list via the web and twiddle the
private/public archive option to make sure that the proper symlinks
are put in place.

After that, I set up Apache and MTA redirects so that all web and mail
references to that moved list go to the new location.  Then I turn
incoming web and mail back on.  The list should now functional in the
new location.

If I had the time, I would do two things to make this less painful:

- Get rid of the public_archive_file_dir, private_archive_file_dir,
  and archive_directory attributes of the MailList object and have
  Mailman calculate them instead.  This would remove the need for
  bin/move_list.

- Make bin/arch automatically create the symlinks for public
  archives.

no-good-answers-ly y'rs,
-Barry



From barry at digicool.com  Fri Jun 15 19:10:14 2001
From: barry at digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 13:10:14 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Allowing users to join without specifying pas
 swords
References: <A148C710488FD411BC4000508BD922D82B36B5@aussrv001.austin.bops.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.21.0106150112060.6111-100000@hal9k.myip.org>
	<15145.20859.341855.574205@anthem.wooz.org>
	<200106150704.f5F749m11832@quill>
Message-ID: <15146.16758.261214.740350@anthem.wooz.org>

>>>>> "NB" == Norbert Bollow <nb at thinkcoach.com> writes:

    >> I definitely hear what Chuq's saying, and what others have
    >> asked for quite often.  I'm mulling over ways to make
    >> unsubscribing dead simple both for users to accomplish, and for
    >> admin's to explain how it's done.

    NB> How about this: Put a link "to unsubscribe click here" at the
    NB> bottom of every mail you send out.  That link has the
    NB> subscriber's email address embedded in it, and it leads to a
    NB> CGI program which checks (by means of a reverse DNS lookup)
    NB> whether the IP address from which the click comes belongs to
    NB> the same domain as the email address for which unsubscription
    NB> is requested.

    NB> If yes, unsub immediately.

    NB> If no, require email confirmation for the unsub request.

I'm not so concerned about security.  I figure that if we're crafting
a message for UserA, we can generate a unique url for that user to
click on to unsubscribe.  Sure someone could intercept the email (and
probably does ;), but we're not opening any more holes than already
exist by doing this.

The biggest hangup I've had with this approach is that it requires
Mailman to send N number of messages to the MTA, where N is the number
of members, as opposed to the currently 1 message it now sends (modulo
chunking factors).

That's always seemed a big pill to swallow, but maybe it's time to
make that optional?  I'd just want to be sure that if you decide to do
that for your 150k member list, you know what you're doing. ;)
Obviously site admins would have to be able to control this pretty
tightly.

But I'm open to suggestions!

-Barry



From barry at digicool.com  Fri Jun 15 19:13:02 2001
From: barry at digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 13:13:02 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Suggestion - cancelable postings
References: <992610459.1168.4.camel@gaspode.localnet>
Message-ID: <15146.16926.268375.853373@anthem.wooz.org>

>>>>> "NM" == Nigel Metheringham <Nigel.Metheringham at VData.co.uk> writes:

    NM> One way of helping this situation out, although it then
    NM> generates a race condition (between the original poster and
    NM> the moderator), is that the notification to the original
    NM> sender could contain a URL and/or a email means to allow the
    NM> original post to be cancelled from the moderation queue.

Excellent idea.  It should be fairly easy to add with the new MM2.1
confirmation architecture.

The mailback should clearly state the existance of that race
condition.  If the user loses, oh well.

OTOH, if most list moderators are like me, they won't often win that
race. :)

-Barry



From bw99a at softcom.net  Fri Jun 15 19:10:07 2001
From: bw99a at softcom.net (Benjamin Winn)
Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 10:10:07 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Free Hosting
Message-ID: <002b01c0f5be$0ad07980$82deabd0@bw>

If anyone can host my mailing list, "The Trekker Newsletter" for free,
please do email me - benjamin at treknewsletter.com

We are a free service and barely pay for expenses, so monthly charges
wouldn't be able to happen.

Thanks!

Sincerely,
Benjamin Winn

The Trekker Newsletter - http://www.treknewsletter.com/
mailto:ttn-request at treknewsletter.com?subject=Subscribe

District News - http://www.districtnews.net/




From nb at thinkcoach.com  Fri Jun 15 19:39:45 2001
From: nb at thinkcoach.com (Norbert Bollow)
Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 19:39:45 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Allowing users to join without specifying pas
 swords
In-Reply-To: <15146.16758.261214.740350@anthem.wooz.org> (barry@digicool.com)
References: <A148C710488FD411BC4000508BD922D82B36B5@aussrv001.austin.bops.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.21.0106150112060.6111-100000@hal9k.myip.org>
	<15145.20859.341855.574205@anthem.wooz.org>
	<200106150704.f5F749m11832@quill> <15146.16758.261214.740350@anthem.wooz.org>
Message-ID: <200106151739.f5FHdj004013@quill>

>     NB> How about this: Put a link "to unsubscribe click here" at the
>     NB> bottom of every mail you send out.  That link has the
>     NB> subscriber's email address embedded in it, and it leads to a
> 
> The biggest hangup I've had with this approach is that it requires
> Mailman to send N number of messages to the MTA, where N is the number
> of members, as opposed to the currently 1 message it now sends (modulo
> chunking factors).

Again, this is _not_ a problem with qmail, for which a patch is
available that makes the MTA (qmail) do a pattern replacement to
insert the subscribed address on-the-fly while talking SMTP to
the remote host.

I'll try to get my promised webpage up tonight which explains 
in some detail how to set this up.

> That's always seemed a big pill to swallow, but maybe it's time to
> make that optional?  I'd just want to be sure that if you decide to do
> that for your 150k member list, you know what you're doing. ;)

Is Mailman suitable for lists of that size anyway?  (I mean,
before someone implements the MySQL backend functionality.)

Greetings, Norbert.



From scott at zenplex.com  Fri Jun 15 19:58:48 2001
From: scott at zenplex.com (Scott Comboni)
Date: 15 Jun 2001 13:58:48 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and LIDS??
Message-ID: <992627928.1073.13.camel@scoot>

Has anyone installed Mailman and LIDS? I'm having trouble getting
everything to jive..
Scott






From chuqui at plaidworks.com  Fri Jun 15 19:58:55 2001
From: chuqui at plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach)
Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 10:58:55 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Allowing users to join without specifying pas swords
In-Reply-To: <15146.16758.261214.740350@anthem.wooz.org>
Message-ID: <200106151757.f5FHvAb01959@lists.apple.com>

On Friday, June 15, 2001, at 10:10 AM, Barry A. Warsaw wrote:

> I'm not so concerned about security.  I figure that if we're crafting
> a message for UserA, we can generate a unique url for that user to
> click on to unsubscribe.  Sure someone could intercept the email (and
> probably does ;), but we're not opening any more holes than already
> exist by doing this.

this requires physical/virtual access to that person's mailbox. and if 
someone has access to that, the poor schmuck's list subscriptions are 
the least of his problems... (grin)

> The biggest hangup I've had with this approach is that it requires
> Mailman to send N number of messages to the MTA, where N is the number
> of members, as opposed to the currently 1 message it now sends (modulo
> chunking factors).
>
> That's always seemed a big pill to swallow,

Is it really? Most of us are already setting that chunking factor very 
small (5-10) for performance purposes. Moving it from 10 to 1 isn't 
really all that significant, and it's only an issue where people are 
already stressing server or network capacity. It seems to me that 
server's in trouble anyway, as membership grows, so all you're doing is 
delaying reality.

And besides. Are we here to make life easy for the server? or the 
subscriber?

I think this attitude is a hangover from the days of uucp dialups and 
slow modems, Barry. it's time to realize that computers are cheap, 
compared to time lost by the people using them and the hassle they cause 
to the users.


--
Chuq Von Rospach, Internet Gnome <http://www.chuqui.com>
[<chuqui at plaidworks.com> = <me at chuqui.com> = <chuq at apple.com>]
Yes, yes, I've finally finished my home page. Lucky you.

Any connection between your reality and mine
is purely coincidental.





From chuqui at plaidworks.com  Fri Jun 15 20:03:39 2001
From: chuqui at plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach)
Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 11:03:39 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Allowing users to join without specifying passwords
In-Reply-To: <CF8E50F639267A448696655B7465DA4A063D53@rachael.letnet.net>
Message-ID: <200106151801.f5FI1sb03228@lists.apple.com>

On Friday, June 15, 2001, at 09:19 AM, Mark Roedel wrote:

> Interesting idea, but I wonder how well it'd work in actual practice.
> Do we really want anybody at aol.com to be able to act on behalf of anyone
> else in that domain?

for subscribes? definitely not. For unsubscribes? Sure. The exposure of 
risk is trivial compared to the aggravation of hassle to a user who 
wants off a list, and is told "first, jump through this hoop"


--
Chuq Von Rospach, Internet Gnome <http://www.chuqui.com>
[<chuqui at plaidworks.com> = <me at chuqui.com> = <chuq at apple.com>]
Yes, yes, I've finally finished my home page. Lucky you.

I tried to get a life once, but they were out of stock.





From barry at digicool.com  Fri Jun 15 20:12:07 2001
From: barry at digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 14:12:07 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Allowing users to join without specifying pas swords
References: <15146.16758.261214.740350@anthem.wooz.org>
	<200106151757.f5FHvAb01959@lists.apple.com>
Message-ID: <15146.20471.749269.166951@anthem.wooz.org>

    BAW>  That's always seemed a big pill to swallow,

>>>>> "CVR" == Chuq Von Rospach <chuqui at plaidworks.com> writes:

    CVR> Is it really? Most of us are already setting that chunking
    CVR> factor very small (5-10) for performance purposes. Moving it
    CVR> from 10 to 1 isn't really all that significant, and it's only
    CVR> an issue where people are already stressing server or network
    CVR> capacity. It seems to me that server's in trouble anyway, as
    CVR> membership grows, so all you're doing is delaying reality.

That's what I wanted to know!  If I understand one thing, its that my
own demands on Mailman are heavily skewed to the atypical lists I run,
the systems I run it on, and the kinds of tasks it forces on me.  So
getting other points of view are critical here (which I why I love
this community!).

    CVR> And besides. Are we here to make life easy for the server? or
    CVR> the subscriber?

    CVR> I think this attitude is a hangover from the days of uucp
    CVR> dialups and slow modems, Barry. it's time to realize that
    CVR> computers are cheap, compared to time lost by the people
    CVR> using them and the hassle they cause to the users.

So what should the default be?  While I appreciate this sentiment (a
lot!), I'm still worried that if we turn this on, a naive sys admin
could get themselves in hot water, and start flooding us with "Why
does my performance suck so bad?!" messages.

Maybe I'm being overly paranoid, or too curmudgeonly, but my
inclination would be to disable this by default, but allow a sys admin
to turn it on if they want.

Thoughts?
-Barry



From MarkRoedel at letu.edu  Fri Jun 15 20:21:58 2001
From: MarkRoedel at letu.edu (Mark Roedel)
Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 13:21:58 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Allowing users to join without specifying passwords
Message-ID: <CF8E50F639267A448696655B7465DA4A063D56@rachael.letnet.net>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Chuq Von Rospach [mailto:chuqui at plaidworks.com]
> Sent: Friday, June 15, 2001 1:04 PM
> To: Mark Roedel
> Cc: Chuq Von Rospach; Norbert Bollow; mailman-users at python.org
> Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Allowing users to join without specifying
> passwords
> 
> 
>> Interesting idea, but I wonder how well it'd work in actual 
>> practice.  Do we really want anybody at aol.com to be able to
>> act on behalf of anyone else in that domain?
> 
> for subscribes? definitely not. For unsubscribes? Sure. The 
> exposure of risk is trivial compared to the aggravation of
> hassle to a user who wants off a list, and is told "first,
> jump through this hoop"

I hope I've made clear at some point that I've got no quarrel with this
idea.  I'm all for the addition of new features (assuming, of course,
that they're configurable at some level -- I for one wouldn't mind
seeing it as a list-by-list option, similar to the "what steps are
required for subscription" setting on the privacy options).

Presumably, we'd also under most circumstances generate a farewell
message when someone was removed from a list.  That'd serve the dual
purpose of confirming a successful unsubscribe for someone who was doing
it legitimately and also notifying them if it was actually happening
behind their back.  (Does this already happen?  I see that there's a
"text sent to people leaving the list" option, but it's not immediately
apparent to me how and where that text would be presented...)


---
Mark Roedel (roedelm at letu.edu)  ||  "There cannot be a crisis next week.
Systems Programmer / WebMaster  ||   My schedule is already full."
     LeTourneau University      ||                    -- Henry Kissinger




From claw at kanga.nu  Fri Jun 15 20:34:54 2001
From: claw at kanga.nu (J C Lawrence)
Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 11:34:54 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Allowing users to join without specifying pas swords 
In-Reply-To: Message from barry@digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw) 
   of "Fri, 15 Jun 2001 13:10:14 EDT." <15146.16758.261214.740350@anthem.wooz.org> 
References: <A148C710488FD411BC4000508BD922D82B36B5@aussrv001.austin.bops.com> <Pine.LNX.4.21.0106150112060.6111-100000@hal9k.myip.org> <15145.20859.341855.574205@anthem.wooz.org> <200106150704.f5F749m11832@quill>  <15146.16758.261214.740350@anthem.wooz.org> 
Message-ID: <19298.992630094@kanga.nu>

On Fri, 15 Jun 2001 13:10:14 -0400 
Barry A Warsaw <barry at digicool.com> wrote:

> The biggest hangup I've had with this approach is that it requires
> Mailman to send N number of messages to the MTA, where N is the
> number of members, as opposed to the currently 1 message it now
> sends (modulo chunking factors).

VERP is interesting.  I'd argue that allowing Mailman to only apply
VERP (or VERP-like techniques) to every Nth post to every Q'th list
member is the most interesting case, both for bounce handling and
human unsubscribe/listinfo etc.

-- 
J C Lawrence                                       claw at kanga.nu
---------(*)                          http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/
The pressure to survive and rhetoric may make strange bedfellows



From claw at kanga.nu  Fri Jun 15 20:37:50 2001
From: claw at kanga.nu (J C Lawrence)
Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 11:37:50 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Allowing users to join without specifying pas swords 
In-Reply-To: Message from Chuq Von Rospach <chuqui@plaidworks.com> 
   of "Fri, 15 Jun 2001 10:58:55 PDT." <200106151757.f5FHvAb01959@lists.apple.com> 
References: <200106151757.f5FHvAb01959@lists.apple.com> 
Message-ID: <23542.992630270@kanga.nu>

On Fri, 15 Jun 2001 10:58:55 -0700 
Chuq Von Rospach <chuqui at plaidworks.com> wrote:

> Is it really? Most of us are already setting that chunking factor
> very small (5-10) for performance purposes. Moving it from 10 to 1
> isn't really all that significant, and it's only an issue where
> people are already stressing server or network capacity. It seems
> to me that server's in trouble anyway, as membership grows, so all
> you're doing is delaying reality.

Mailman has a large penetration in small under-weight systems/sites.
Its the whole -t-does-everything deal which is particularly
attractive to novice/small sites.  I'd dislike seeing that quality
lost.

-- 
J C Lawrence                                       claw at kanga.nu
---------(*)                          http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/
The pressure to survive and rhetoric may make strange bedfellows



From arandall at auntminnie.com  Fri Jun 15 20:39:07 2001
From: arandall at auntminnie.com (Amanda)
Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 11:39:07 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Free Hosting
References: <002b01c0f5be$0ad07980$82deabd0@bw>
Message-ID: <3B2A564B.D49CFA4A@auntminnie.com>

Benjamin:

Try egroups.com or topica.com :-)

=)
Amanda


Benjamin Winn wrote:

> If anyone can host my mailing list, "The Trekker Newsletter" for free,
> please do email me - benjamin at treknewsletter.com
>
> We are a free service and barely pay for expenses, so monthly charges
> wouldn't be able to happen.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Sincerely,
> Benjamin Winn
>
> The Trekker Newsletter - http://www.treknewsletter.com/
> mailto:ttn-request at treknewsletter.com?subject=Subscribe
>
> District News - http://www.districtnews.net/
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users maillist  -  Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users




From samir at tecnohost.com.br  Fri Jun 15 20:45:52 2001
From: samir at tecnohost.com.br (Samir G. Barak)
Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 15:45:52 -0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How can I setup a demo mail list ?
Message-ID: <3994357408.20010615154552@tecnohost.com.br>

Hi all !

Someone can tell me how I do for setup a demo
mail list?

All the functions in the administrative panel,
must be disable (for security reasons).

Thanks for any help !

Samir





From chuqui at plaidworks.com  Fri Jun 15 20:38:12 2001
From: chuqui at plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach)
Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 11:38:12 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Allowing users to join without specifying pas swords
In-Reply-To: <15146.20471.749269.166951@anthem.wooz.org>
Message-ID: <200106151836.f5FIaRb11693@lists.apple.com>

On Friday, June 15, 2001, at 11:12 AM, Barry A. Warsaw wrote:

> That's what I wanted to know!  If I understand one thing, its that my
> own demands on Mailman are heavily skewed to the atypical lists I run,
> the systems I run it on, and the kinds of tasks it forces on me.  So
> getting other points of view are critical here (which I why I love
> this community!).

we've made the decision that all of our mail systems are going to be 
sent individually. I'm planning on putting the subscribed address back 
in the To: line, encode for one-click unsub, and encode data to make it 
easy to figure out what the subscribed address is elsewhere in the 
message. Users are increasingly unclear about the underlying aspects of 
mail lists and BCC, and between naive users, people who leave a trail of 
.forwards across the universe and forget about them, and mail servers 
that do stupid things with email (not that I'm calling out First Class, 
Notes or Exchange as braindamaged, but if the shoe fits...), it'll make 
everyone's life better.

Besides, in all honesty (and this isn't necessarily a factor with 
Mailman, as opposed to my big server) we want to distance from the bulk 
feeling of email more towards personalization and 'first class' letter. 
But I think the underlying issues are still applicable to mail lists.

Whether it's naive users, users with 37 hotmail addresses, the person 
who's MIT alum account forwards to his UCLA grad student account that 
forwards to his bigfoot account that forwards to his hotmail address 
that forwards to his DSL line, it's simply not safe to assume that (a) 
the address the person is mailing from is the address subscribed, (b) 
the user will actually know what address is subscribed, or (c) that the 
user is interesting/able to figure this out with you.

And that ignores large companies who's IS departments re-arrange email 
addresses on a regular basis, and don't bother to tell their users. I 
can't tell you how often I get mail from fred.luser at big-company.com, 
who's actually subscribed as fred-luser at mail.big-company.com, and he 
didn't even know about the change until I mentioned it to him...

So from the point of view of protecting the list server from the rest of 
the universe and making the list-admin (and site admin)'s jobs easier, 
lists need to have the subscribed address in them and accessible, 
because there are simply too many opportunities now that create a piece 
of email that got to a user, and there simply isn't any way of finding 
out how. And you usually don't find out until after the user is truly 
and legitimately frustrated at you and your server anyway, which is a 
great way to START a discussion....

> So what should the default be?  While I appreciate this sentiment (a
> lot!), I'm still worried that if we turn this on, a naive sys admin
> could get themselves in hot water, and start flooding us with "Why
> does my performance suck so bad?!" messages.

if you go check your archives, you'll see we already get those, but it's 
because mailman sets that number large (500, I think), and therefore 
slows delivery on systems where the MTA intelligently breaks it up for 
you (which postfix can, but sendmail won't).

I'd set this number very low, like 5 for 2.0.x, and 1 (effectively VERP) 
for 2.1 -- and then document it in the code and FAQ that it should be 
raised only if the server load isn't sustainable (but in 2.1, here are 
the features you lose....), and only the smallest amount needed to get 
it under control until you add capacity... I think you have many fewer 
problems doing that than setting it large and expecting people to tune 
it down.

The real issue here, IMHO, is likely ot be the wonderful sendmail/DNS 
lookup on acceptance delay issue. And I'd suggest the way to fix that is 
to fix the Sendmail module, and have it use -Odeliverymode=defer. and 
use the Smtp module for other MTAs. If they want to remote-SMTP to a 
sendmail MTA, document that they're screwed. That's the only way to get 
around this sendmail chokepoint, other than to do what I'm doing, and 
move to postifx...


--
Chuq Von Rospach, Internet Gnome <http://www.chuqui.com>
[<chuqui at plaidworks.com> = <me at chuqui.com> = <chuq at apple.com>]
Yes, yes, I've finally finished my home page. Lucky you.

Any connection between your reality and mine
is purely coincidental.





From claw at kanga.nu  Fri Jun 15 20:44:32 2001
From: claw at kanga.nu (J C Lawrence)
Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 11:44:32 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Allowing users to join without specifying pas swords 
In-Reply-To: Message from barry@digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw) 
   of "Fri, 15 Jun 2001 14:12:07 EDT." <15146.20471.749269.166951@anthem.wooz.org> 
References: <15146.16758.261214.740350@anthem.wooz.org> <200106151757.f5FHvAb01959@lists.apple.com>  <15146.20471.749269.166951@anthem.wooz.org> 
Message-ID: <1249.992630672@kanga.nu>

On Fri, 15 Jun 2001 14:12:07 -0400 
Barry A Warsaw <barry at digicool.com> wrote:

> Maybe I'm being overly paranoid, or too curmudgeonly, but my
> inclination would be to disable this by default, but allow a sys
> admin to turn it on if they want.

Precisely -- an option in Defaults.py that an admin has to go
actively looking for.  If set, VERP0ish options then appear on a
per-list basis for the specific configuration.

Sample reasoning:

  I have an announcement list and a discussion list.

  They have duplicate membership lists of ~50K members.

  The announcement list is low traffic -- few posts a week.

  The discussion list runs ~150 posts a day.

  I want to VERP the announcement list and share the
  bounce/unsubscribes between the lists (which should be automatic).

  I have considerable disk IO savings (the system is compleatly
  throttled by /var/spool IO contention) if I can bundle the RCPT-TO
  envelope sizes for the announcement list to something large and
  gain the VERP benefits from my low-load announcement list.

This of course is ignoring the human factors, which I may not
consider significant for my user base.

-- 
J C Lawrence                                       claw at kanga.nu
---------(*)                          http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/
The pressure to survive and rhetoric may make strange bedfellows



From claw at kanga.nu  Fri Jun 15 20:46:44 2001
From: claw at kanga.nu (J C Lawrence)
Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 11:46:44 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Allowing users to join without specifying passwords 
In-Reply-To: Message from "Mark Roedel" <MarkRoedel@letu.edu> 
   of "Fri, 15 Jun 2001 13:21:58 CDT." <CF8E50F639267A448696655B7465DA4A063D56@rachael.letnet.net> 
References: <CF8E50F639267A448696655B7465DA4A063D56@rachael.letnet.net> 
Message-ID: <4620.992630804@kanga.nu>

On Fri, 15 Jun 2001 13:21:58 -0500 
Mark Roedel <MarkRoedel at letu.edu> wrote:

> Presumably, we'd also under most circumstances generate a farewell
> message when someone was removed from a list.  That'd serve the
> dual purpose of confirming a successful unsubscribe for someone
> who was doing it legitimately and also notifying them if it was
> actually happening behind their back.  (Does this already happen?
> I see that there's a "text sent to people leaving the list"
> option, but it's not immediately apparent to me how and where that
> text would be presented...)

Agreed.  Additionally the farewell message should be phrased such
that a simple reply to the message will reinstate the
account/subsription exactly as before (password, digest, etc).

-- 
J C Lawrence                                       claw at kanga.nu
---------(*)                          http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/
The pressure to survive and rhetoric may make strange bedfellows



From chuqui at plaidworks.com  Fri Jun 15 21:01:15 2001
From: chuqui at plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach)
Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 12:01:15 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Allowing users to join without specifying pas swords 
In-Reply-To: <23542.992630270@kanga.nu>
Message-ID: <200106151859.f5FIxUb16812@lists.apple.com>

On Friday, June 15, 2001, at 11:37 AM, J C Lawrence wrote:

> Mailman has a large penetration in small under-weight systems/sites.
> Its the whole -t-does-everything deal which is particularly
> attractive to novice/small sites.  I'd dislike seeing that quality
> lost.
>

but will what we are proposing cause problems? It's only an issue if we 
'put them over the edge', and I don't at all think we should ASSUME we 
will. I'm willing to bet most sites will continue to work just fine. 
It's osmething that might be useful to survey before making assumptions 
and decisions.


--
Chuq Von Rospach, Internet Gnome <http://www.chuqui.com>
[<chuqui at plaidworks.com> = <me at chuqui.com> = <chuq at apple.com>]
Yes, yes, I've finally finished my home page. Lucky you.

It's a thankless job, but I've got a lot of
Karma to burn off.





From chuqui at plaidworks.com  Fri Jun 15 21:03:36 2001
From: chuqui at plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach)
Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 12:03:36 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Allowing users to join without specifying passwords
In-Reply-To: <CF8E50F639267A448696655B7465DA4A063D56@rachael.letnet.net>
Message-ID: <200106151901.f5FJ1pb17048@lists.apple.com>

On Friday, June 15, 2001, at 11:21 AM, Mark Roedel wrote:
> Presumably, we'd also under most circumstances generate a farewell
> message when someone was removed from a list.

definitely. No black holes. You not only need to confirm the unsubscribe 
so the user knows the action they took succeeded, but this avoids the 
cirucmstance where they were removed, and didn't notice until the 
silence of no messages clicks in.

this all assumes that the end-user pays attention and reads things. 
That's not always true, but we can only go so far. As I point out to 
users who yell at me about stuff I sent them e-mail on, I can't force 
them to read it, but I can tell them to not yell at me if they didn't...


--
Chuq Von Rospach, Internet Gnome <http://www.chuqui.com>
[<chuqui at plaidworks.com> = <me at chuqui.com> = <chuq at apple.com>]
Yes, yes, I've finally finished my home page. Lucky you.

It's not the pace of life that concerns me, it's the sudden stop at the 
end.




From chuqui at plaidworks.com  Fri Jun 15 20:59:51 2001
From: chuqui at plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach)
Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 11:59:51 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Allowing users to join without specifying pas swords 
In-Reply-To: <19298.992630094@kanga.nu>
Message-ID: <200106151858.f5FIw6b16620@lists.apple.com>

On Friday, June 15, 2001, at 11:34 AM, J C Lawrence wrote:

> VERP is interesting.  I'd argue that allowing Mailman to only apply
> VERP (or VERP-like techniques) to every Nth post to every Q'th list
> member is the most interesting case, both for bounce handling and
> human unsubscribe/listinfo etc.

Me, I see VERP as an afterthought. I'm more interested in making things 
easier for the end user, which means things like what I posted earlier 
this morning (to line changes, encoded URLs). you can't do that every 
Nth post, it has to be in every message. And once you do that, you might 
as well do VERP, since it's now free.

but if you don't want to do the customization for end-users, then yes, 
intermittent VERP is fine.


--
Chuq Von Rospach, Internet Gnome <http://www.chuqui.com>
[<chuqui at plaidworks.com> = <me at chuqui.com> = <chuq at apple.com>]
Yes, yes, I've finally finished my home page. Lucky you.

"He doesn't have ulcers, but he's a carrier."




From claw at kanga.nu  Fri Jun 15 21:20:02 2001
From: claw at kanga.nu (J C Lawrence)
Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 12:20:02 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Allowing users to join without specifying pas swords 
In-Reply-To: Message from Chuq Von Rospach <chuqui@plaidworks.com> 
   of "Fri, 15 Jun 2001 12:01:15 PDT." <200106151859.f5FIxUb16812@lists.apple.com> 
References: <200106151859.f5FIxUb16812@lists.apple.com> 
Message-ID: <13226.992632802@kanga.nu>

On Fri, 15 Jun 2001 12:01:15 -0700 
Chuq Von Rospach <chuqui at plaidworks.com> wrote:

> On Friday, June 15, 2001, at 11:37 AM, J C Lawrence wrote:

>> Mailman has a large penetration in small under-weight
>> systems/sites.  Its the whole -t-does-everything deal which is
>> particularly attractive to novice/small sites.  I'd dislike
>> seeing that quality lost.

> but will what we are proposing cause problems? It's only an issue
> if we 'put them over the edge', and I don't at all think we should
> ASSUME we will. I'm willing to bet most sites will continue to
> work just fine. It's osmething that might be useful to survey
> before making assumptions and decisions.

Fair dinkum.  A potential issue is that it is MTA dependent in
addition to the normal physical hardware and OS configuration issues
(filesystem type, partitition type, mount options, other spindle
activity etc).  To date Mailman is quite MTA agnostic.

-- 
J C Lawrence                                       claw at kanga.nu
---------(*)                          http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/
The pressure to survive and rhetoric may make strange bedfellows



From bob at nleaudio.com  Fri Jun 15 21:28:56 2001
From: bob at nleaudio.com (Bob Puff@NLE)
Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 15:28:56 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Changing MTA usage in Mailman
References: <E15Aywr-0005n1-00@mail.python.org>
Message-ID: <3B2A61F8.5727148E@nleaudio.com>

(Changing the subject for this thread to something more relevant)

> So what should the default be?  While I appreciate this sentiment (a
> lot!), I'm still worried that if we turn this on, a naive sys admin
> could get themselves in hot water, and start flooding us with "Why
> does my performance suck so bad?!" messages.

Just how much would it "suck"?  Majordomo wasn't -too- bad when dealing with a 1k+ list.. Plus, if you changed this, you could not only make user-specific links in messages, but you could also generate user-specific message headers, and do bounce handlink like Lyris does.

Bob



From claw at kanga.nu  Fri Jun 15 21:24:17 2001
From: claw at kanga.nu (J C Lawrence)
Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 12:24:17 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Allowing users to join without specifying pas swords 
In-Reply-To: Message from Chuq Von Rospach <chuqui@plaidworks.com> 
   of "Fri, 15 Jun 2001 11:59:51 PDT." <200106151858.f5FIw6b16620@lists.apple.com> 
References: <200106151858.f5FIw6b16620@lists.apple.com> 
Message-ID: <19969.992633057@kanga.nu>

On Fri, 15 Jun 2001 11:59:51 -0700 
Chuq Von Rospach <chuqui at plaidworks.com> wrote:

> On Friday, June 15, 2001, at 11:34 AM, J C Lawrence wrote:

>> VERP is interesting.  I'd argue that allowing Mailman to only
>> apply VERP (or VERP-like techniques) to every Nth post to every
>> Q'th list member is the most interesting case, both for bounce
>> handling and human unsubscribe/listinfo etc.

> Me, I see VERP as an afterthought. 

I tend to classify the various forms of "do something member unique
to each message as VERP" as they share similar system load issues.

> I'm more interested in making things easier for the end user,
> which means things like what I posted earlier this morning (to
> line changes, encoded URLs). you can't do that every Nth post...

Actually you can and it works rather nicely.  I was on a list for a
while which applied one of a library of customisations to each
message.  Thus each message would have a footer blob that instructed
on a different aspect of using the list effectively.  

Rather neat I thought.

> ... it has to be in every message. 

Really?

> And once you do that, you might as well do VERP, since it's now
> free.

True.

-- 
J C Lawrence                                       claw at kanga.nu
---------(*)                          http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/
The pressure to survive and rhetoric may make strange bedfellows



From alex at phred.org  Fri Jun 15 21:26:59 2001
From: alex at phred.org (alex wetmore)
Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 12:26:59 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Allowing users to join without specifying pas
    swords
In-Reply-To: <200106151757.f5FHvAb01959@lists.apple.com>
Message-ID: <20010615122020.C4983-100000@phred.org>

On Fri, 15 Jun 2001, Chuq Von Rospach wrote:
> Is it really? Most of us are already setting that chunking factor very
> small (5-10) for performance purposes. Moving it from 10 to 1 isn't
> really all that significant, and it's only an issue where people are
> already stressing server or network capacity. It seems to me that
> server's in trouble anyway, as membership grows, so all you're doing is
> delaying reality.
>
> And besides. Are we here to make life easy for the server? or the
> subscriber?
>
> I think this attitude is a hangover from the days of uucp dialups and
> slow modems, Barry. it's time to realize that computers are cheap,
> compared to time lost by the people using them and the hassle they cause
> to the users.

Computers are cheap.  Bandwidth isn't necessarily cheap.  I run with a
very high chunking factor because my MTA properly handles it (it can
do multiple simultaneous deliveries from a single message, so there is
no real cost in just turning off chunking).

If this change is made please make it an option.  I'd much rather deal
with having a few people ask for help unsubscribing every once in a
while than to send 130 30kb digests every few hours to hotmail instead
of 1 30kb digest to them.  My membership base on my largest lists has
been fairly static at about 1000 subscribers for over a year, and I
don't see this changing anytime soon.

What I would like to see is a webpage with a URL like:
http://www.phred.org/mailman/unsubscribe/touring that has a single
input (user's email address) and which causes a confirmation email to
be sent to them.  I could put this in the bottom of each message and
it would be almost as good as a per-recipient URL.

alex




From claw at kanga.nu  Fri Jun 15 21:30:52 2001
From: claw at kanga.nu (J C Lawrence)
Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 12:30:52 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Allowing users to join without specifying pas swords 
In-Reply-To: Message from Chuq Von Rospach <chuqui@plaidworks.com> 
   of "Fri, 15 Jun 2001 11:38:12 PDT." <200106151836.f5FIaRb11693@lists.apple.com> 
References: <200106151836.f5FIaRb11693@lists.apple.com> 
Message-ID: <30553.992633452@kanga.nu>

On Fri, 15 Jun 2001 11:38:12 -0700 
Chuq Von Rospach <chuqui at plaidworks.com> wrote:

> The real issue here, IMHO, is likely ot be the wonderful
> sendmail/DNS lookup on acceptance delay issue. And I'd suggest the
> way to fix that is to fix the Sendmail module, and have it use
> -Odeliverymode=defer. and use the Smtp module for other MTAs. If
> they want to remote-SMTP to a sendmail MTA, document that they're
> screwed. That's the only way to get around this sendmail
> chokepoint, other than to do what I'm doing, and move to
> postifx...

Would it be so bad if the Mailman FAQ/README read as follows?

  If you are having performance problems and are using sendmail,
  don't bitch to us.  Change to a more capable MTA like Exim,
  or Postfix instead (<insert URLs and pointers to READMEs>.  If you
  are married to sendmail, you can try the following approaches
  <insert references here> but they are NOT recommended and they
  come with a variety of technical tradeoffs that may or may not fit
  your situation.  

-- 
J C Lawrence                                       claw at kanga.nu
---------(*)                          http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/
The pressure to survive and rhetoric may make strange bedfellows



From chuqui at plaidworks.com  Fri Jun 15 21:36:45 2001
From: chuqui at plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach)
Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 12:36:45 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Allowing users to join without specifying pas swords
In-Reply-To: <20010615122020.C4983-100000@phred.org>
Message-ID: <200106151935.f5FJZ0419968@lists.apple.com>

On Friday, June 15, 2001, at 12:26 PM, alex wetmore wrote:

> Computers are cheap.  Bandwidth isn't necessarily cheap.  I run with a
> very high chunking factor because my MTA properly handles it

But -- if this went away, what would it do to your bandwidth? Are you 
paying by packet? If not, the only PRACTICAL difference is that if the 
pipe is full, delivery slows down.

What is the real cost is? That messages show up five minutes later than 
they would if we don't do this?

Before we play "this is a witch! burn her!" games (grin), we ought to 
figure out what the real impact is. If people want, I can post some 
stuff (no hard numbers, unfortunately) I've seen based on tweaking this 
stuff on my big machines. But the funny thing is, the biggest difference 
I see isn't network, it's disk I/O. and most of that is because of 
sendmail's design for dealing with this stuff...

I'm not saying Alex is wrong -- he's got some good points. but we need 
to quantify what those points are and what the impact is, so we can 
decide just how to move forward on this. If the impact is, oh, a 5% 
degradation in network throughput, frankly, it's not (IMHO) worth 
special casing it. If it's 30%, we need to special case it AND document 
it so people know how to tune their systems. And if it's 60%, maybe we 
shouldn't do it..

but we need to figure out what the impact is, and not guess or make 
assumptions...


--
Chuq Von Rospach, Internet Gnome <http://www.chuqui.com>
[<chuqui at plaidworks.com> = <me at chuqui.com> = <chuq at apple.com>]
Yes, yes, I've finally finished my home page. Lucky you.

Love is the process of my leading you gently back to yourself.
             - Saint Exupery




From chuqui at plaidworks.com  Fri Jun 15 21:29:22 2001
From: chuqui at plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach)
Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 12:29:22 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Allowing users to join without specifying pas swords 
In-Reply-To: <19969.992633057@kanga.nu>
Message-ID: <200106151927.f5FJRc419065@lists.apple.com>

On Friday, June 15, 2001, at 12:24 PM, J C Lawrence wrote:

>> ... it has to be in every message.
>
> Really?

If it's not in the message the user is looking at when they make the 
decision to unsubscribe, it's not very useful, any more than the 
"monthly posting with unsubscribe information in it" is once the user 
deletes it. Which he will, probably before reading it.m

Again, you're making it easier for the server by forcing the user to do 
something illogical (to them). How do you explain to the user that unsub 
details only show up every 10th message, and why should he care? how 
does this improve the user experience?



--
Chuq Von Rospach, Internet Gnome <http://www.chuqui.com>
[<chuqui at plaidworks.com> = <me at chuqui.com> = <chuq at apple.com>]
Yes, yes, I've finally finished my home page. Lucky you.

95% of being a net.god is sounding persuasive
and convincing people you know what you're talking about, even when 
you're
making it up as you go along. (chuq von rospach, 1992)





From chuqui at plaidworks.com  Fri Jun 15 21:31:39 2001
From: chuqui at plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach)
Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 12:31:39 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Allowing users to join without specifying pas swords 
In-Reply-To: <13226.992632802@kanga.nu>
Message-ID: <200106151929.f5FJTs419372@lists.apple.com>

On Friday, June 15, 2001, at 12:20 PM, J C Lawrence wrote:

> Fair dinkum.  A potential issue is that it is MTA dependent in
> addition

is it? I guess I'm missing the connection.

>  To date Mailman is quite MTA agnostic.
>

to a good degree by programming to the lowest common denominator. Maybe 
it's time to re-think that, so we can take advantage of some features, 
while still keeping a 'generic' module for the other MTAs. that'd allow 
us to 'build in' the qmail VERP stuff, or allowing postfix to let 
mailman maintain the alias file, while still supporting sendmail, which 
does neither.

after all, isn't this just another API with a set of 'plug-ins'?




--
Chuq Von Rospach, Internet Gnome <http://www.chuqui.com>
[<chuqui at plaidworks.com> = <me at chuqui.com> = <chuq at apple.com>]
Yes, yes, I've finally finished my home page. Lucky you.

Any connection between your reality and mine
is purely coincidental.





From barry at digicool.com  Fri Jun 15 22:19:09 2001
From: barry at digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 16:19:09 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Allowing users to join without specifying pas swords
References: <20010615122020.C4983-100000@phred.org>
	<200106151935.f5FJZ0419968@lists.apple.com>
Message-ID: <15146.28093.61335.281545@anthem.wooz.org>

>>>>> "CVR" == Chuq Von Rospach <chuqui at plaidworks.com> writes:

    CVR> I'm not saying Alex is wrong -- he's got some good
    CVR> points. but we need to quantify what those points are and
    CVR> what the impact is, so we can decide just how to move forward
    CVR> on this. If the impact is, oh, a 5% degradation in network
    CVR> throughput, frankly, it's not (IMHO) worth special casing
    CVR> it. If it's 30%, we need to special case it AND document it
    CVR> so people know how to tune their systems. And if it's 60%,
    CVR> maybe we shouldn't do it..

    CVR> but we need to figure out what the impact is, and not guess
    CVR> or make assumptions...

I'd love to see any statistic you (or anybody) gathers on this
subject.  It's definitely intriguing, but right now I don't have the
time or systems to do this kind of data gathering.

-Barry



From barry at digicool.com  Fri Jun 15 22:21:10 2001
From: barry at digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 16:21:10 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Allowing users to join without specifying pas swords 
References: <13226.992632802@kanga.nu>
	<200106151929.f5FJTs419372@lists.apple.com>
Message-ID: <15146.28214.283589.780027@anthem.wooz.org>

>>>>> "CVR" == Chuq Von Rospach <chuqui at plaidworks.com> writes:

    CVR> to a good degree by programming to the lowest common
    CVR> denominator. Maybe it's time to re-think that, so we can take
    CVR> advantage of some features, while still keeping a 'generic'
    CVR> module for the other MTAs. that'd allow us to 'build in' the
    CVR> qmail VERP stuff, or allowing postfix to let mailman maintain
    CVR> the alias file, while still supporting sendmail, which does
    CVR> neither.

    CVR> after all, isn't this just another API with a set of
    CVR> 'plug-ins'?

Yup.  And there's nothing stopping folks from playing with this now.
I think it can all be handled by a Handlers/ module, a la
SMTPDirect.py or Sendmail.py.

-Barry



From rbp at netcanvas.com  Fri Jun 15 22:37:23 2001
From: rbp at netcanvas.com (Rodrigo Borges Pereira)
Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 21:37:23 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] virtual hosting tactic
Message-ID: <NCEMLCJBJDBDADHPBAEPIEINDAAA.rbp@netcanvas.com>

Hi!

I'm running a server that hosts a few domains. I already have mailman
running for lists.mydomain.com, and it is working great.

However, now i want to give users that host domains the ability to use
lists.userdomain.com too, and each user has it's own mailman setup under his
domain.

What's the best tactic for this?

I'm using Qmail and latest Mailman.

TIA
Rodrigo




From alaric at babylon5.babcom.com  Fri Jun 15 22:38:24 2001
From: alaric at babylon5.babcom.com (Phil Stracchino)
Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 13:38:24 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Allowing users to join without specifying pas swords
In-Reply-To: <200106151927.f5FJRc419065@lists.apple.com>; from chuqui@plaidworks.com on Fri, Jun 15, 2001 at 12:29:22PM -0700
References: <19969.992633057@kanga.nu> <200106151927.f5FJRc419065@lists.apple.com>
Message-ID: <20010615133824.A19401@babylon5.babcom.com>

On Fri, Jun 15, 2001 at 12:29:22PM -0700, Chuq Von Rospach wrote:
> 
> On Friday, June 15, 2001, at 12:24 PM, J C Lawrence wrote:
> 
> >> ... it has to be in every message.
> >
> > Really?
> 
> If it's not in the message the user is looking at when they make the 
> decision to unsubscribe, it's not very useful, any more than the 
> "monthly posting with unsubscribe information in it" is once the user 
> deletes it. Which he will, probably before reading it.m
> 
> Again, you're making it easier for the server by forcing the user to do 
> something illogical (to them). How do you explain to the user that unsub 
> details only show up every 10th message, and why should he care? how 
> does this improve the user experience?


When running majordomo lists, I always had the unsubscribe information
right in the message footer.  Would it be so hard to do that with the
<mailto:mailman-users-request at python.org?subject=unsubscribe> ?

To make it more visible, we could even insert a "mini-header" at the
beginning of the body, containing the List-Help: and
List-Unsubscribe: lines.


(On the other hand, I *STILL* got people who apparently couldn't be
bothered to read the message footer when they decided they wanted to
unsubscribe, and who apparently couldn't be bothered to follow the
unsibscribe instructions even when it was pointed out to them that they
were right there in every message.  You can only make it just so easy.)



-- 
 Linux Now!   ..........Because friends don't let friends use Microsoft.
 phil stracchino   --   the renaissance man   --   mystic zen biker geek
        alaric at babcom.com                halmayne at sourceforge.net
   2000 CBR929RR, 1991 VFR750F3 (foully murdered), 1986 VF500F (sold)



From chuqui at plaidworks.com  Fri Jun 15 22:45:51 2001
From: chuqui at plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach)
Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 13:45:51 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Allowing users to join without specifying pas swords
In-Reply-To: <20010615133824.A19401@babylon5.babcom.com>
Message-ID: <200106152037.f5FKbah27288@plaidworks.com>

On Friday, June 15, 2001, at 01:38 PM, Phil Stracchino wrote:

> When running majordomo lists, I always had the unsubscribe information
> right in the message footer.  Would it be so hard to do that with the
> <mailto:mailman-users-request at python.org?subject=unsubscribe> ?

we're talking about going beyond that, to encoding the unsub with the 
info needed to find the subscribed address automatically. We can put the 
URL in there already; that just isn't always good enough. We're talking 
about customizing that for each user.


--
Chuq Von Rospach, Internet Gnome <http://www.chuqui.com>
[<chuqui at plaidworks.com> = <me at chuqui.com> = <chuq at apple.com>]
Yes, yes, I've finally finished my home page. Lucky you.

When an agnostic dies, does he go to the "great perhaps"?




From chuqui at plaidworks.com  Fri Jun 15 22:47:58 2001
From: chuqui at plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach)
Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 13:47:58 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Allowing users to join without specifying pas swords 
In-Reply-To: <19969.992633057@kanga.nu>
Message-ID: <200106152039.f5FKdih27327@plaidworks.com>

On Friday, June 15, 2001, at 12:24 PM, J C Lawrence wrote:

>> Me, I see VERP as an afterthought.
>
> I tend to classify the various forms of "do something member unique
> to each message as VERP" as they share similar system load issues.

I do the same, but it's a habit I'm trying to break, because VERP is a 
specific bounce encoding string, and what we're talking about is message 
customization, which may or may not include VERPing it. So we do both 
VERP and what we're talking about a dissservice by intermingling the 
terminology -- and it's likely to confuse people who come into the 
conversation midway and don't catch that we've redefined things on them.


--
Chuq Von Rospach, Internet Gnome <http://www.chuqui.com>
[<chuqui at plaidworks.com> = <me at chuqui.com> = <chuq at apple.com>]
Yes, yes, I've finally finished my home page. Lucky you.

Any connection between your reality and mine
is purely coincidental.





From john at fricker.com  Sat Jun 16 00:09:39 2001
From: john at fricker.com (John Fricker)
Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 15:09:39 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] FW: Cron <mailman@downtown> /usr/local/bin/python -S /home/mailman/cron/qrunner
Message-ID: <NBBBKKIMMJBOMGCJKHHOAEPMGKAA.john@fricker.com>

I'm getting these message by the dozen. I just did a Python install and a
Mailman install apparently nothing works yet. Help?

Thanks,
John


Cron <mailman at downtown> /usr/local/bin/python -S /home/mailman/cron/qrunner


Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/home/mailman/cron/qrunner", line 85, in ?
    from Mailman import MailList
  File "/home/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 30, in ?
    import socket
  File "/usr/local/lib/python2.1/socket.py", line 41, in ?
    from _socket import *
ImportError: /usr/local/lib/python2.1/lib-dynload/_socket.so: undefined
symbol: RSA_PKCS1_RSAref




From nb at thinkcoach.com  Sat Jun 16 00:26:25 2001
From: nb at thinkcoach.com (Norbert Bollow)
Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2001 00:26:25 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Allowing users to join without specifying pas swords
In-Reply-To: <200106151836.f5FIaRb11693@lists.apple.com> (message from Chuq
	Von Rospach on Fri, 15 Jun 2001 11:38:12 -0700)
References: <200106151836.f5FIaRb11693@lists.apple.com>
Message-ID: <200106152226.f5FMQPj05919@quill>

Chuq Von Rospach <chuqui at plaidworks.com> wrote:

> we've made the decision that all of our mail systems are going to be 
> sent individually. I'm planning on putting the subscribed address back 
> in the To: line

Where then will you put the list submission address?  (Putting
it _only_ into List-Post: would mean hiding it a bit too well
except for those with a MUA that supports the List-Post:
header.) Will you use a Reply-To: header?

Greetings, Norbert.

-- 
Norbert Bollow, Weidlistr.18, CH-8624 Gruet (near Zurich, Switzerland)
Tel +41 1 972 20 59     Fax +41 1 972 20 69      nb at freedevelopers.net



From alex at phred.org  Sat Jun 16 01:00:05 2001
From: alex at phred.org (alex wetmore)
Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 16:00:05 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Allowing users to join without specifying pas
    swords
In-Reply-To: <200106151935.f5FJZ0419968@lists.apple.com>
Message-ID: <20010615155624.J4983-100000@phred.org>

On Fri, 15 Jun 2001, Chuq Von Rospach wrote:
> On Friday, June 15, 2001, at 12:26 PM, alex wetmore wrote:
> > Computers are cheap.  Bandwidth isn't necessarily cheap.  I run with a
> > very high chunking factor because my MTA properly handles it
>
> But -- if this went away, what would it do to your bandwidth? Are you
> paying by packet? If not, the only PRACTICAL difference is that if the
> pipe is full, delivery slows down.

I have a DSL provider who has made noise about starting to pay by the
bandwidth.  Additionally I use the line for interactive (ssh)
connections by which I read and write email (I'm writing this email
now over the line) and lower bandwidth usage means that I get better
interactive rates.  I can tell when the digests are going out because
my line is painful for a few minutes.

I assume I'm not the only person running Mailman for fairly large
lists over a somewhat low bandwidth link (and a link that isn't
dedicated to Mailman).  I send out 100k msgs/day peak, about
30-40k/day on average and have a 256k upstream.  This link is used for
many things, Mailman is just one of them.

alex




From alex at phred.org  Sat Jun 16 01:06:42 2001
From: alex at phred.org (alex wetmore)
Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 16:06:42 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] virtual hosting tactic
In-Reply-To: <NCEMLCJBJDBDADHPBAEPIEINDAAA.rbp@netcanvas.com>
Message-ID: <20010615160142.O4983-100000@phred.org>

On Fri, 15 Jun 2001, Rodrigo Borges Pereira wrote:
> I'm running a server that hosts a few domains. I already have mailman
> running for lists.mydomain.com, and it is working great.
>
> However, now i want to give users that host domains the ability to use
> lists.userdomain.com too, and each user has it's own mailman setup under his
> domain.

If the lists don't have conflicting names then you can just set the
"preferred domain" for each list to be the userdomain.  As an example
http://phred.org/mailman/listinfo,
http://bikelist.org/mailman/listinfo, and
http://cascade.bikelist.org/mailman/listinfo all point to lists on my
servers, but act as if they are unique domains.  You can send a
message to any of the lists using any of the domains (ie, if there is
a list xxx at cascade.bikelist.org you could get to it by sending email
to xxx at phred.org), but I don't advertise that fact and users generally
don't figure it out.

If you have conflicting list names then things get more complicated
and you need to setup a mailman install per domain.  There is a lot of
information on this in the archives.

alex




From rbp at netcanvas.com  Sat Jun 16 01:22:46 2001
From: rbp at netcanvas.com (Rodrigo Borges Pereira)
Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2001 00:22:46 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] virtual hosting tactic
In-Reply-To: <20010615160142.O4983-100000@phred.org>
Message-ID: <NCEMLCJBJDBDADHPBAEPKEJBDAAA.rbp@netcanvas.com>

that sounds good for me.. it shouldn't be a big effort to keep list names
not colliding between domains.

however, how do you avoid the list administrator from changing the list
preferred domain in the web interface?

> -----Original Message-----
> From: mailman-users-admin at python.org
> [mailto:mailman-users-admin at python.org]On Behalf Of alex wetmore
> Sent: sabado, 16 de Junho de 2001 0:07
> To: Rodrigo Borges Pereira
> Cc: mailman-users at python.org
> Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] virtual hosting tactic
>
>
> On Fri, 15 Jun 2001, Rodrigo Borges Pereira wrote:
> > I'm running a server that hosts a few domains. I already have mailman
> > running for lists.mydomain.com, and it is working great.
> >
> > However, now i want to give users that host domains the ability to use
> > lists.userdomain.com too, and each user has it's own mailman
> setup under his
> > domain.
>
> If the lists don't have conflicting names then you can just set the
> "preferred domain" for each list to be the userdomain.  As an example
> http://phred.org/mailman/listinfo,
> http://bikelist.org/mailman/listinfo, and
> http://cascade.bikelist.org/mailman/listinfo all point to lists on my
> servers, but act as if they are unique domains.  You can send a
> message to any of the lists using any of the domains (ie, if there is
> a list xxx at cascade.bikelist.org you could get to it by sending email
> to xxx at phred.org), but I don't advertise that fact and users generally
> don't figure it out.
>
> If you have conflicting list names then things get more complicated
> and you need to setup a mailman install per domain.  There is a lot of
> information on this in the archives.
>
> alex
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users maillist  -  Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
>
>




From chuqui at plaidworks.com  Sat Jun 16 01:37:09 2001
From: chuqui at plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach)
Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 16:37:09 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Allowing users to join without specifying pas swords
In-Reply-To: <200106152226.f5FMQPj05919@quill>
Message-ID: <200106152328.f5FNSth30208@plaidworks.com>

On Friday, June 15, 2001, at 03:26 PM, Norbert Bollow wrote:

> Where then will you put the list submission address?

for the lists I'm talking about, thre is none. These are e-newsletters.

This isn't my mailman system. Sorry if it's not clear. This is my big 
server.


--
Chuq Von Rospach, Internet Gnome <http://www.chuqui.com>
[<chuqui at plaidworks.com> = <me at chuqui.com> = <chuq at apple.com>]
Yes, yes, I've finally finished my home page. Lucky you.

Stress is when you wake up screaming and you realize you haven't fallen 
asleep yet.






From alex at phred.org  Sat Jun 16 02:56:59 2001
From: alex at phred.org (alex wetmore)
Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 17:56:59 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] virtual hosting tactic
In-Reply-To: <NCEMLCJBJDBDADHPBAEPKEJBDAAA.rbp@netcanvas.com>
Message-ID: <20010615175503.Q4983-100000@phred.org>

On Sat, 16 Jun 2001, Rodrigo Borges Pereira wrote:
> however, how do you avoid the list administrator from changing the list
> preferred domain in the web interface?

I don't know that you can.  I trust my list administrators to leave
that alone, but the only list adminsitrators besides myself are
friends.

This does bring up a question that another admin asked me.  Is there a
way that the site administrator can remove permission from list
administrators from changing some of the fields?  For instance I would
like to have a site policy that requires that Reply-To is never set to
the list.

alex




From jwblist at olympus.net  Sat Jun 16 03:30:09 2001
From: jwblist at olympus.net (John W Baxter)
Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 18:30:09 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Allowing users to join without specifying pas
 swords
In-Reply-To: <20010615133824.A19401@babylon5.babcom.com>
References: <19969.992633057@kanga.nu>
 <200106151927.f5FJRc419065@lists.apple.com>
 <20010615133824.A19401@babylon5.babcom.com>
Message-ID: <p05100303b75063ea7d6a@[207.149.192.229]>

At 13:38 -0700 6/15/01, Phil Stracchino wrote:
>When running majordomo lists, I always had the unsubscribe information
>right in the message footer.  Would it be so hard to do that with the
><mailto:mailman-users-request at python.org?subject=unsubscribe> ?

There are still MUAs in service which do not do the subject part of that
form of mailto: URL.  I do suspect that the intersection of the set of
people who have trouble unsubscribing and the set of people who use their
machines just as they came out of the box years ago is probably large.

I don't know whether there are many MUAs which still crash when they see
the extended mailto:.  In particular, I don't know and can't test what
various AOL versions do.

  --John

-- 
John Baxter   jwblist at olympus.net      Port Ludlow, WA, USA



From claw at kanga.nu  Sat Jun 16 09:40:26 2001
From: claw at kanga.nu (J C Lawrence)
Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2001 00:40:26 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Allowing users to join without specifying pas swords 
In-Reply-To: Message from Chuq Von Rospach <chuqui@plaidworks.com> 
   of "Fri, 15 Jun 2001 12:29:22 PDT." <200106151927.f5FJRc419065@lists.apple.com> 
References: <200106151927.f5FJRc419065@lists.apple.com> 
Message-ID: <22492.992677226@kanga.nu>

On Fri, 15 Jun 2001 12:29:22 -0700 
Chuq Von Rospach <chuqui at plaidworks.com> wrote:

> On Friday, June 15, 2001, at 12:24 PM, J C Lawrence wrote:

>>> ... it has to be in every message.
>> Really?

> If it's not in the message the user is looking at when they make
> the decision to unsubscribe, it's not very useful, any more than
> the "monthly posting with unsubscribe information in it" is once
> the user deletes it. Which he will, probably before reading it.m

My observation is that putting the same reminder at the in every
message footer is immediately ignored.  Making the footer rotate
among N variations, or having it vary frequently with each form
pointing out something different about the list controls, seemed to
raise more interest.

Its doesn't handle the whole set -- it handles a slightly different
set which is not fully contained by the set you're discussing.

-- 
J C Lawrence                                       claw at kanga.nu
---------(*)                          http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/
The pressure to survive and rhetoric may make strange bedfellows



From chuqui at plaidworks.com  Sat Jun 16 09:44:24 2001
From: chuqui at plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach)
Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2001 00:44:24 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Allowing users to join without specifying pas swords 
In-Reply-To: <22492.992677226@kanga.nu>
Message-ID: <200106160736.f5G7a9h07896@plaidworks.com>

On Saturday, June 16, 2001, at 12:40 AM, J C Lawrence wrote:

> My observation is that putting the same reminder at the in every
> message footer is immediately ignored.  Making the footer rotate
> among N variations,

I think that's overkill, though. My observation is that people who don't 
notice the header are unlikely to notice much of anything, including 
sending them the instructions on parchment with gold ink carried by a 
naked vestal virgin on an elephant. At some point, you have to decide 
it's not worth trying to save someone from themselves.


--
Chuq Von Rospach, Internet Gnome <http://www.chuqui.com>
[<chuqui at plaidworks.com> = <me at chuqui.com> = <chuq at apple.com>]
Yes, yes, I've finally finished my home page. Lucky you.

I like you.  You remind me of when I was
young and stupid.





From claw at kanga.nu  Sat Jun 16 09:58:42 2001
From: claw at kanga.nu (J C Lawrence)
Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2001 00:58:42 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Allowing users to join without specifying pas swords 
In-Reply-To: Message from Chuq Von Rospach <chuqui@plaidworks.com> 
   of "Sat, 16 Jun 2001 00:44:24 PDT." <200106160736.f5G7a9h07896@plaidworks.com> 
References: <200106160736.f5G7a9h07896@plaidworks.com> 
Message-ID: <19705.992678322@kanga.nu>

On Sat, 16 Jun 2001 00:44:24 -0700 
Chuq Von Rospach <chuqui at plaidworks.com> wrote:

> On Saturday, June 16, 2001, at 12:40 AM, J C Lawrence wrote:

>> My observation is that putting the same reminder at the in every
>> message footer is immediately ignored.  Making the footer rotate
>> among N variations,

> I think that's overkill, though. 

Certainly there are questions of diminishing returns.

However, given the current plugin/handler it would seem simple to
have a library of such handlers which by list configuration may be
attached to a given list.  One could rotate list footers.  One could
prefix/affix any list footer with a user specific unsubscribe line.

I'm also kinda keen on putting a themes engine on Mailman -- montly
a file-extracted form of headers/footers/tokens ala your mod_layout
thing.

> My observation is that people who don't notice the header are
> unlikely to notice much of anything, including sending them the
> instructions on parchment with gold ink carried by a naked vestal
> virgin on an elephant.

I'm still waiting for some a list owner to try that with me.  The
last guy cheap skated with purple ink, which rather ruined the
effect.

> At some point, you have to decide it's not worth trying to save
> someone from themselves.

<sigh>

Yeah.

-- 
J C Lawrence                                       claw at kanga.nu
---------(*)                          http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/
The pressure to survive and rhetoric may make strange bedfellows



From chuqui at plaidworks.com  Sat Jun 16 10:04:38 2001
From: chuqui at plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach)
Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2001 01:04:38 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Allowing users to join without specifying pas swords 
In-Reply-To: <19705.992678322@kanga.nu>
Message-ID: <200106160756.f5G7uNh08420@plaidworks.com>

On Saturday, June 16, 2001, at 12:58 AM, J C Lawrence wrote:

> I'm also kinda keen on putting a themes engine on Mailman -- montly
> a file-extracted form of headers/footers/tokens ala your mod_layout
> thing.
>

sort of like my signature randomizer. kewl.

>> At some point, you have to decide it's not worth trying to save
>> someone from themselves.
>
> <sigh>
>

of course, we have to remember they'll blame us for it, too.


--
Chuq Von Rospach, Internet Gnome <http://www.chuqui.com>
[<chuqui at plaidworks.com> = <me at chuqui.com> = <chuq at apple.com>]
Yes, yes, I've finally finished my home page. Lucky you.

Any connection between your reality and mine
is purely coincidental.





From alaric at babylon5.babcom.com  Sat Jun 16 10:37:06 2001
From: alaric at babylon5.babcom.com (Phil Stracchino)
Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2001 01:37:06 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Allowing users to join without specifying pas swords
In-Reply-To: <200106160736.f5G7a9h07896@plaidworks.com>; from chuqui@plaidworks.com on Sat, Jun 16, 2001 at 12:44:24AM -0700
References: <22492.992677226@kanga.nu> <200106160736.f5G7a9h07896@plaidworks.com>
Message-ID: <20010616013706.B3299@babylon5.babcom.com>

On Sat, Jun 16, 2001 at 12:44:24AM -0700, Chuq Von Rospach wrote:
> I think that's overkill, though. My observation is that people who don't 
> notice the header are unlikely to notice much of anything, including 
> sending them the instructions on parchment with gold ink carried by a 
> naked vestal virgin on an elephant. At some point, you have to decide 
> it's not worth trying to save someone from themselves.


If I promise to read the instructions on the parchment, will you send me a
naked vestal virgin?

Don't worry about the elephant; I don't have a place to put one anyway.


-- 
 Linux Now!   ..........Because friends don't let friends use Microsoft.
 phil stracchino   --   the renaissance man   --   mystic zen biker geek
        alaric at babcom.com                halmayne at sourceforge.net
   2000 CBR929RR, 1991 VFR750F3 (foully murdered), 1986 VF500F (sold)



From chuqui at plaidworks.com  Sat Jun 16 10:42:53 2001
From: chuqui at plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach)
Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2001 01:42:53 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] virtual hosting tactic
In-Reply-To: <20010615175503.Q4983-100000@phred.org>
Message-ID: <200106160834.f5G8Ybh10254@plaidworks.com>

On Friday, June 15, 2001, at 05:56 PM, alex wetmore wrote:

> I don't know that you can.  I trust my list administrators to leave
> that alone, but the only list adminsitrators besides myself are
> friends.

And I'll note that I recently had a fairly nasty fight with one of my 
admins (to the point his list was put on death row until he agreed to 
cooperate) where one of his final arguments was "if you don't want me to 
change it, why does the software let me?"

> For instance I would
> like to have a site policy that requires that Reply-To is never set to
> the list.
>

speak of the devil, guess what we were arguing about?


--
Chuq Von Rospach, Internet Gnome <http://www.chuqui.com>
[<chuqui at plaidworks.com> = <me at chuqui.com> = <chuq at apple.com>]
Yes, yes, I've finally finished my home page. Lucky you.

Q: Did God really create the world in seven days?
A: He did it in six days and nights while living on cola and candy
    bars.  On the seventh day he went home and found out his girlfriend
    had left him.






From satyap at satya.virtualave.net  Sat Jun 16 12:15:13 2001
From: satyap at satya.virtualave.net (Satya)
Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2001 15:45:13 +0530 (IST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] OT: light-hearted unsubscriptions
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0106161545000.664-100000@hal9k.myip.org>

On Jun 15, 2001 at 13:01, Bob Puff at NLE wrote:

>ALl this talk recently about unsubscriptions... This came from another list I am on:

>    It should be the standard no-fault type. Depending on your 
>requirements, System A and/or System B can be used. When operating System 
>A, depress lever and a plastic dalkron unsubscriber will be dispensed 

Bull! There is no plastic dalkron unsubscriber. The one that *is*
there is made of bronze.

>    The controls for System B are located on the opposite side. The red 
>release switch places the Cin-Eliminator into position; it can be adjusted 

Hah! That's the self-destruc(*NO CARRIER





From nb at thinkcoach.com  Sat Jun 16 18:32:35 2001
From: nb at thinkcoach.com (Norbert Bollow)
Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2001 18:32:35 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Need mail merge capability
In-Reply-To: <15140.57399.627583.984597@anthem.wooz.org> (barry@digicool.com)
References: <F9060760545DD21189D200A0C9E922C7016FF105@exchange.indexstock.com>
	<991730834.5891.2.camel@gaspode.localnet>
	<200106051225.f55CPvB12282@quill>
	<15134.42997.273307.167273@anthem.wooz.org>
	<200106071141.f57Bffg25316@quill> <15140.57399.627583.984597@anthem.wooz.org>
Message-ID: <200106161632.f5GGWZb10980@quill>

Barry,
  the promised webpage is now online at

http://mailman.cis.to/qmail-verh/

Greetings, Norbert.

P.S. If you need any further explanations of qmail-related
stuff for your FAQ, feel free to ask me for them.


>     NB> If you like I can put up a webpage which explains how to set
>     NB> this so up that you can do something like Neil Cooler wants,
>     NB> who wrote:
> 
> That would be cool.  Send me a link and I'll add it to the FAQ.
> 
> Cheers,
> -Barry
> 

-- 
Norbert Bollow, Weidlistr.18, CH-8624 Gruet (near Zurich, Switzerland)
Tel +41 1 972 20 59     Fax +41 1 972 20 69      nb at freedevelopers.net



From barry at digicool.com  Sat Jun 16 20:09:18 2001
From: barry at digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2001 14:09:18 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] virtual hosting tactic
References: <NCEMLCJBJDBDADHPBAEPKEJBDAAA.rbp@netcanvas.com>
	<20010615175503.Q4983-100000@phred.org>
Message-ID: <15147.41166.493766.952584@anthem.wooz.org>

>>>>> "aw" == alex wetmore <alex at phred.org> writes:

    >> however, how do you avoid the list administrator from changing
    >> the list preferred domain in the web interface?

    aw> I don't know that you can.  I trust my list administrators to
    aw> leave that alone, but the only list adminsitrators besides
    aw> myself are friends.

In MM2.1, web_page_url isn't configurable ttw.

    aw> This does bring up a question that another admin asked me.  Is
    aw> there a way that the site administrator can remove permission
    aw> from list administrators from changing some of the fields?

There isn't, but there should be.

-Barry




From ashley at pcraft.com  Sat Jun 16 20:14:07 2001
From: ashley at pcraft.com (Ashley M. Kirchner)
Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2001 12:14:07 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] virtual hosting tactic
References: <NCEMLCJBJDBDADHPBAEPKEJBDAAA.rbp@netcanvas.com>
Message-ID: <3B2BA1EF.3EE0A5D6@pcraft.com>

Rodrigo Borges Pereira wrote:

> however, how do you avoid the list administrator from changing the list
> preferred domain in the web interface?

    As far as I know, there's no way to do this, however, in my case, with
several domains running off of one server (multiple mailman installations), it
does the admin no good to change the domain.  If they do, mail will no longer
be delivered/send from their list because sendmail will not deliver/send mail
from any of the other domains configured.

--
H | Hi, I'm currently out of my mind.  Please leave a message.  BEEEEP!
  +--------------------------------------------------------------------
  Ashley M. Kirchner <mailto:ashley at pcraft.com>   .   303.442.6410 x130
  Director of Internet Operations / SysAdmin    .     800.441.3873 x130
  Photo Craft Laboratories, Inc.            .     3550 Arapahoe Ave, #6
  http://www.pcraft.com ..... .  .    .       Boulder, CO 80303, U.S.A.





From rbp at netcanvas.com  Sat Jun 16 21:16:47 2001
From: rbp at netcanvas.com (Rodrigo Borges Pereira)
Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2001 20:16:47 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] virtual hosting tactic
In-Reply-To: <3B2BA1EF.3EE0A5D6@pcraft.com>
Message-ID: <NCEMLCJBJDBDADHPBAEPKEKCDAAA.rbp@netcanvas.com>

> > however, how do you avoid the list administrator from changing the list
> > preferred domain in the web interface?
>
>     As far as I know, there's no way to do this, however, in my case, with
> several domains running off of one server (multiple mailman
> installations), it
> does the admin no good to change the domain.  If they do, mail
> will no longer
> be delivered/send from their list because sendmail will not
> deliver/send mail
> from any of the other domains configured.
>

That wouldn't be a problem here too, i'm using qmail and it's easy to point
a specific user for each domain.

What i'm interested is in the right steps to use multiple installations of
mailmain for each domain.
If u can give me a "mini-guide", it would save me some time figuring it out
and i'd appreciate that a lot.

TIA,

Rodrigo




From ashley at pcraft.com  Sat Jun 16 21:17:03 2001
From: ashley at pcraft.com (Ashley M. Kirchner)
Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2001 13:17:03 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] virtual hosting tactic
References: <NCEMLCJBJDBDADHPBAEPKEKCDAAA.rbp@netcanvas.com>
Message-ID: <3B2BB0AE.5F1F7629@pcraft.com>

Rodrigo Borges Pereira wrote:

> What i'm interested is in the right steps to use multiple installations of
> mailmain for each domain.
> If u can give me a "mini-guide", it would save me some time figuring it out
> and i'd appreciate that a lot.

    Just install it like you normally would, into different directories, each
one representing a domain.

--
H | Hi, I'm currently out of my mind.  Please leave a message.  BEEEEP!
  +--------------------------------------------------------------------
  Ashley M. Kirchner <mailto:ashley at pcraft.com>   .   303.442.6410 x130
  Director of Internet Operations / SysAdmin    .     800.441.3873 x130
  Photo Craft Laboratories, Inc.            .     3550 Arapahoe Ave, #6
  http://www.pcraft.com ..... .  .    .       Boulder, CO 80303, U.S.A.





From chuqui at plaidworks.com  Sat Jun 16 21:34:00 2001
From: chuqui at plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach)
Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2001 12:34:00 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Allowing users to join without specifying pas swords 
In-Reply-To: <30553.992633452@kanga.nu>
Message-ID: <200106161925.f5GJPih18622@plaidworks.com>

On Friday, June 15, 2001, at 12:30 PM, J C Lawrence wrote:

> Would it be so bad if the Mailman FAQ/README read as follows?
>
>   If you are having performance problems and are using sendmail,
>   don't bitch to us.


I'd be more political about it.

Something like:

We have found that sendmail has limitations that can cause it to be a 
performance bottleneck with mailman. If you are running sendmail and are 
having trouble with delivery delays or other performance problems, we 
suggest you look into an alternative delivery program -- we know mailman 
does not have these problems with a properly configured version of 
postfix, exim or qmail. This is not a problem with mailman: this is a 
design limitation in sendmail that we don't believe will be fixed in the 
forseeable future.


--
Chuq Von Rospach, Internet Gnome <http://www.chuqui.com>
[<chuqui at plaidworks.com> = <me at chuqui.com> = <chuq at apple.com>]
Yes, yes, I've finally finished my home page. Lucky you.

95% of being a net.god is sounding persuasive
and convincing people you know what you're talking about, even when 
you're
making it up as you go along. (chuq von rospach, 1992)






From chuqui at plaidworks.com  Sat Jun 16 21:35:11 2001
From: chuqui at plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach)
Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2001 12:35:11 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Allowing users to join without specifying pas swords
In-Reply-To: <15146.28093.61335.281545@anthem.wooz.org>
Message-ID: <200106161926.f5GJQth18638@plaidworks.com>

On Friday, June 15, 2001, at 01:19 PM, Barry A. Warsaw wrote:

>     CVR> so people know how to tune their systems. And if it's 60%,
>     CVR> maybe we shouldn't do it..
>
>     CVR> but we need to figure out what the impact is, and not guess
>     CVR> or make assumptions...
>
> I'd love to see any statistic you (or anybody) gathers on this
> subject.  It's definitely intriguing, but right now I don't have the
> time or systems to do this kind of data gathering.

I'll do some thinking about this, and see if I can come up with some 
theoretical numbers and/or a way to build a realistic model of this...



--
Chuq Von Rospach, Internet Gnome <http://www.chuqui.com>
[<chuqui at plaidworks.com> = <me at chuqui.com> = <chuq at apple.com>]
Yes, yes, I've finally finished my home page. Lucky you.

Any connection between your reality and mine
is purely coincidental.





From jwblist at olympus.net  Sun Jun 17 07:41:21 2001
From: jwblist at olympus.net (John W Baxter)
Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2001 22:41:21 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] virtual hosting tactic
In-Reply-To: <3B2BA1EF.3EE0A5D6@pcraft.com>
References: <NCEMLCJBJDBDADHPBAEPKEJBDAAA.rbp@netcanvas.com>
 <3B2BA1EF.3EE0A5D6@pcraft.com>
Message-ID: <p05100305b751f2bfdda0@[207.149.192.229]>

At 12:14 -0600 6/16/01, Ashley M. Kirchner wrote:
>Rodrigo Borges Pereira wrote:
>
>> however, how do you avoid the list administrator from changing the list
>> preferred domain in the web interface?
>
>    As far as I know, there's no way to do this, however, in my case, with
>several domains running off of one server (multiple mailman installations), it
>does the admin no good to change the domain.  If they do, mail will no longer
>be delivered/send from their list because sendmail will not deliver/send mail
>from any of the other domains configured.
>

Mess with the HTML so that the option isn't on the web page.  If the admins
are determined enough to generate the needed HTTP command anyhow, you'll
also have to mess with the scripting.

  --John

-- 
John Baxter   jwblist at olympus.net      Port Ludlow, WA, USA



From chuqui at plaidworks.com  Sun Jun 17 09:46:47 2001
From: chuqui at plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach)
Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2001 00:46:47 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Allowing users to join without specifying pas swords
In-Reply-To: <15146.28093.61335.281545@anthem.wooz.org>
Message-ID: <200106170738.f5H7cah28586@plaidworks.com>

On Friday, June 15, 2001, at 01:19 PM, Barry A. Warsaw wrote:

>     CVR> points. but we need to quantify what those points are and
>     CVR> what the impact is, so we can decide just how to move forward
>     CVR> on this.

> I'd love to see any statistic you (or anybody) gathers on this
> subject.  It's definitely intriguing, but right now I don't have the
> time or systems to do this kind of data gathering.
>

Okay, here's a first cut at some data.

I'm going to assume the following:

1000 subscribers -- no digest subscribers to simplify this. Assume just 
individual messages.

The message size is 10K, including header.

The bandwidth needed to generate a connection to send a message is 1K 
(which is pretty close)

The bandwidth needed to add an address to an existing message is about 
1/10 of a K (also pretty close).

The practical limit to the number of messages you can piggyback is 100, 
since this is specified in RFC2821 as the smallest number a site is 
REQUIRED to take. In practice, due to non-conformant sites, you have to 
be careful setting it beyond 50 these days, because sites set this 
number down because they think it slows down the spammers (I'm yet to be 
convinced it makes a damn bit a difference, especially since MTAs like 
postifx recognize the 452 and auto-adjust now. This is another place 
where sendmail seems behind the technology curve, FWIW)

How much bandwidth is used depends on these factors:

what your piggyback value is (in mailman, it's SMTP_MAX_RCPTS)

how many domains have > 1 subscriber.

Here's how plaidworks breaks down:

3101 subscribers across 1287 domains. that's an average of 2.3 
subscribers per domain, but the numbers skew wildly, so averages are 
meaningless.


Here's how my site breaks down:

# of subscribers			# of domains/# of users
---------------------			-----------------
1						263/263
2						142/284
3						40/120
4						19/76
5						16/80
6						10/60
7						7/49
8						3/24
9						6/54
10						2/20
11						2/22
12						2/24
13						1/
14						1/
16						1/
17						1/ (worldnet.att.net)
22						1/(juno.com)
29						1 (mindspring.com)
30						1 (pacbell.net)
35						1 (plaidworks.com)
43						1 (sympatico.ca)
53						1 (earthlink.net)
150						1 (home.com)
173						1 (yahoo.com)
228						1 (hotmail.com)
441						1 (aol.com)

if you're scoring at home, 37% of subscribers come from that last 4 
domains: 5% for home and yahoo, 7% for hotmail, and 14% for aol. those 
are your 500 pound gorillas (AOL is 800 pounds), and piss them off at 
your own risk.

At the other end, 8% of your users are the only subscriber from a 
domain. 16% are 1 or 2 per domain. 26% are on sites with 5 or fewer 
subscribers.

Time for some numbers.

Back to the 1000 member list for simplicity. The subscriber list breaks 
down to:

85	- 	1/85
45	-	2/90
12	-	3/36
6	-	4/24
[...]
48	-	1
55	-	1
73	-	1
142	-	1

That's 553, or 55% of the subscribers, wedged tightly on both ends of 
the curve. We can extrapolate what they'll do to bandwidth from the end 
cases if we need to.

Extreme case: SMTP_MAX_RCPTS = 1.

1000 subscribers * (10K message size + 1K overhead) = 11,000K bytes 
bandwidth.

Extreme case: SMTP_MAX_RCPTS = 100

These get sent  down the line this way:

85 * 11K
45 * (1 * 11K + 1 * .1K)
12 * (1 * 11K + 2 * .1K
6 * (1 * 11K + 3 * .1K)
[...]
1 * 11K + 47 * .1K
1 * 11K + 54 * .1K
1 * 11K + 72 * .1K
2 * 11K + 140 * .1K

Do you see how I got these numbers? In the case of the 12 domains with 
three subscribers, you have to make an 11K connection for the first 
message, and piggy back on the other two addresses at .01K each. You 
don't really see huge savings until the big domains, and you'll see AOL 
goes over the 100 address limit so gets split into two different 
messages.

For this 55%, the SMTP=1 is 6050K. For 100, it's 1711K bytes. That's 28% 
of the first number, so we're cutting 72% of the bandwidth by chunking 
at 100. The tradeoff is performance, though -- it takes a lot longer to 
deliver those AOL addresses, because if you split it into two batches, 
you can't parallelize the delivery. Package up 100 AOL addresses in one 
batch, none of them get delivered until all 100 addresses are sent to 
AOL and accepted. It's much faster to send them as ten batches of ten in 
parallel -- but that's the trade off here. Cut network bandwidth but 
slow delivery to the larger domains.

Okay, let's look at a case in the middle. SMTP_MAX = 5. The ones with 
less than 5 don't change, but the big domains do

85 * 11K
45 * (1 * 11K + 1 * .1K)
12 * (1 * 11K + 2 * .1K
6 * (1 * 11K + 3 * .1K)
[...]
1 * (10 * 11K + 38 * .1k)
1 * (11 * 11K + 44 * .1K)
1 * (15 * 11K + 58 * .1K)
1* (29 * 11K + 113 * .1K)

that works out to (trust me) about 2378K, or about a 60% reduction.

Let's try SMTP_MAX = 2.

85 * 11K
45 * (1 * 11K + 1 * .1K)
12 * (2 * 11K + 1 * .1K
6 * (2 * 11K + 2 * .1K)
[...]
1 * (10 * 11K + 38 * .1k)
1 * (11 * 11K + 44 * .1K)
1 * (15 * 11K + 58 * .1K)
1* (29 * 11K + 113 * .1K)

that works out to 2575K, or about a 57% cut.

By a rough look at those domains in the middle, I'd say these numbers 
are good +-10%.

What's this mean? Here's the executive summary:

The network penalty between SMTP_MAX = 1 (effectively VERP) and any kind 
of batching (SMTP > 1) is roughly 50%. To get VERP or customized footers 
or customized anything, you double your network bandwidth.

There is very little advantage to setting SMTP_MAX > 5, UNLESS your 
subscriber base is heavily stratified onto very few sites. If you have 
really large groups of subscribers on AOL or Hotmail, it can help cut 
network bandwidth, but at best, it seems to be about a 10% improvement. 
If you plot the numbers I did on a curve, you can see just how little 
advantage you get by increasing the number. You get almost all of the 
advantage by going to 2, and the line past 5 is very flat....

Interesting -- I honestly didn't expect to see THIS big a difference -- 
I was expecting more like 25-30% increase in bandwidth for a VERP-type 
delivery.

My thoughts on what this means to future directions:

Customized messages (VERPing, or encoded unsub URLs, or all of that...) 
should definitely be an option in Mailman 2.1.

I would set Mailman's 2.1 default to have this turned ON, giving us the 
customized unsub links and etc, but to document this for users so they 
know to turn it off on slow networks.

If users turn it off, I recommend that SMTP_MAX be set by default to 5, 
and that we document that it makes little sense to change it unless a 
site is horribly network limited, because even setting to the max only 
gains them another 10% (and if they're THAT network limited, they're 
seriously asking for trouble anyway), and only if their subscriber base 
fits a profile that lends itself to the compression. Setting it large 
also leaves them open to spamblocking by systems that don't necessarily 
follow the standards or act right, too.

We should ALSO note here that some MTAs (postfix, for instance) might 
override SMTP_MAX anyway -- you could set it to 100, but postfix might 
be configured smaller, so they have to be aware of those potential 
interactions. you then get into the issues of tuning all this, with few 
delivery threads with lots of addresses vs many threads in parallel.. 
and all that fun -- I guess I'm trying to say that you can't tune 
mailman in isolation from the MTA (and down that road lies a huge 
rathole of attempting to document this stuff...)

But from these numbers, any 2.0.x version of mailman should set SMTP_MAX 
to between 2 and 5, unless they're horribly network limited. it makes no 
sense to be larger than 5, and it makes no sense to be 1 unless you've 
done some kind of VERPing patch.

for 2.1, we want to implement these customizations and default them on, 
but with a 50% network hit, we definitely want to make it clear what's 
going on and make it possible for them to turn it off and return to a 
generic URL and non-customized e-mail.

Barry's mileage may vary on his preferences for default, of course, and 
it's his show. I think the advantages of the customized URL/email 
capability is a huge one and most sites will benefit from it -- but the 
network hit might kill some sites, so we have to give them an easy 
ability to turn the feature off.

What do y'all think? I've included mailman-developers on this reply, 
since while this started on mm-users, it really ought to be discussed on 
the developers list...


--
Chuq Von Rospach, Internet Gnome <http://www.chuqui.com>
[<chuqui at plaidworks.com> = <me at chuqui.com> = <chuq at apple.com>]
Yes, yes, I've finally finished my home page. Lucky you.

Yes, I am an agent of Satan, but my duties
are largely ceremonial.





From canario.joe at teleline.es  Sun Jun 17 11:41:46 2001
From: canario.joe at teleline.es (CJoe)
Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2001 09:41:46 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] need urgent assistance
Message-ID: <19983517990.20010617094146@teleline.es>

Dear  all,  I run into trouble: I have started a 2000+ list and I
found out

      NAME-OF-THE-LIST@

is not the same as

      name-of-the-list@

People  will  use  both-  and  what  is  worse:  if  I  use  the
name-of-list@ MAILAN wont even return an error message!

How do I fix this alias problem ?

Need help asap; please, reply privately as I am on digest mode.

cheers,


canario.joe at teleline.es
___





From rob at dentalupdate.com  Sun Jun 17 10:52:15 2001
From: rob at dentalupdate.com (Robert Stark)
Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2001 03:52:15 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Searchable Archives?
In-Reply-To: <19983517990.20010617094146@teleline.es>
Message-ID: <B751D9EE.C7AF%rob@dentalupdate.com>

Hi 

I am new to mailman. I did not notice any searchable archives of the mailman
users list. I'm I mistaken? Did I overlook this. I would like to search for
answers to my questions on an archives list first before I start bugging
people with questions that have probably been answered before in the past.

Thanks
Rob Stark




From alex at phred.org  Sun Jun 17 15:21:32 2001
From: alex at phred.org (alex wetmore)
Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2001 06:21:32 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Allowing users to join without specifying pas
    swords
In-Reply-To: <200106170738.f5H7cah28586@plaidworks.com>
Message-ID: <20010617061400.S4983-100000@phred.org>

On Sun, 17 Jun 2001, Chuq Von Rospach wrote:
> For this 55%, the SMTP=1 is 6050K. For 100, it's 1711K bytes. That's 28%
> of the first number, so we're cutting 72% of the bandwidth by chunking
> at 100. The tradeoff is performance, though -- it takes a lot longer to
> deliver those AOL addresses, because if you split it into two batches,
> you can't parallelize the delivery.

Please don't make this assumption.  It is true for the commonly used
Unix MTAs, but it is not true for all MTAs.  My MTA has no problems
with parallelizing delivery out of a single recieved message.

I agree that a smaller number would make sense for the default though,
as I'm probably the only one here who isn't using a Unix-based MTA to
do their deliveries.  As long as it is still configurable I am happy.

Your method for figuring out bandwidth usage is interesting, and I
think I'll do something similar for the recipient base and message
sizes on my system.  10k is much larger than my average message size,
but doing the same thing for digests (30k, and 65% of my readers are
in digest mode) would be interesting.  I'll report back to the list
with my results if anyone else is interested.

> I would set Mailman's 2.1 default to have this turned ON, giving us the
> customized unsub links and etc, but to document this for users so they
> know to turn it off on slow networks.

I would argue that it should default to OFF, as this is how Mailman
has behaved for a couple of years.  As long as I can easily turn it
off before completing the install (by changing mm_cfg.py for instance)
I am happy.

alex




From chuqui at plaidworks.com  Sun Jun 17 17:29:50 2001
From: chuqui at plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach)
Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2001 08:29:50 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Allowing users to join without specifying pas swords
In-Reply-To: <20010617061400.S4983-100000@phred.org>
Message-ID: <200106171521.f5HFLdh06227@plaidworks.com>

On Sunday, June 17, 2001, at 06:21 AM, alex wetmore wrote:

> Please don't make this assumption.  It is true for the commonly used
> Unix MTAs, but it is not true for all MTAs.

you're misreading what I was doing here -- I'm looking at this based on 
how it goes over the wire, not how it's delivered to the MTA. So it 
doesn't matter if your MTA repackages it going over the wire or not -- 
I'm assuming it doesn't for simplicity, but if it does, you simply have 
to change the values to take that into consideration (and, for what it's 
worth, I did point out that postfix CAN do this, although I didn't 
clearly tie that back to this, because I thought the message was too 
long and opaque already...)

> Your method for figuring out bandwidth usage is interesting, and I
> think I'll do something similar for the recipient base and message
> sizes on my system.

It's just a rough attempt to get in the ballpark, but I think the 
numbers are going to be fairly good for the general SMTP protocol.

> 10k is much larger than my average message size,

true. It was convenient (especially for me, since I needed that data for 
my big emarketing machine anyway, and our messages are 10-14K and 
35-45K). If you go to smaller messages, the advantages of the 
buddying-up drops (for a 1K message, instead of  N * 11K + M * .1K, it's 
N*2K + M * .1K) and the protocol overhead becomes more important. For 
larger messages, the advantage grows completely. For 1-2K messages, you 
might see the advantage drop to 30% or less, I haven't done the math.

This also ignores the MTA's ability to cache connections, by the way. 
But that's really a random process and impossible to model this way.

> I would argue that it should default to OFF

I'm not surprised. It's Barry's call, but I think the customized URL is 
useful enough we want people to use it unless they have to turn it off, 
we don't want to have to try to convince the people who install stuff 
and leave everything defaulted to turn it on.


--
Chuq Von Rospach, Internet Gnome <http://www.chuqui.com>
[<chuqui at plaidworks.com> = <me at chuqui.com> = <chuq at apple.com>]
Yes, yes, I've finally finished my home page. Lucky you.

It's not the pace of life that concerns me, it's the sudden stop at the 
end.




From claw at kanga.nu  Sun Jun 17 18:22:40 2001
From: claw at kanga.nu (J C Lawrence)
Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2001 09:22:40 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Re: [Mailman-Users] Allowing users to join without specifying pas swords 
In-Reply-To: Message from Chuq Von Rospach <chuqui@plaidworks.com> 
   of "Sun, 17 Jun 2001 00:46:47 PDT." <200106170738.f5H7cah28586@plaidworks.com> 
References: <200106170738.f5H7cah28586@plaidworks.com> 
Message-ID: <1411.992794960@kanga.nu>

On Sun, 17 Jun 2001 00:46:47 -0700 
Chuq Von Rospach <chuqui at plaidworks.com> wrote:

> On Friday, June 15, 2001, at 01:19 PM, Barry A. Warsaw wrote:

> I would set Mailman's 2.1 default to have this turned ON...

Agreed.

> Barry's mileage may vary on his preferences for default, of
> course, and it's his show. I think the advantages of the
> customized URL/email capability is a huge one and most sites will
> benefit from it -- but the network hit might kill some sites, so
> we have to give them an easy ability to turn the feature off.

You also ignore local physical resource consumption.  Network
bandwidth and expense are not always the only constraining factors.
Mail systems tend to be disk IO constrained in addition to network
bound with file creat()/open() being the biggies.  Given a busy box
that tends to maintain a significant backlog, under VERP/RCPT_TO=1
inode exhaustion becomes a more probable case than with larger
envelopes (similar/identical curves to above).

  Yes, real mail admins know to mkfs /var/spool with a higher inode
  count than the rest of their systems.  I'll let you guess what
  percentage of mail admins actually do.

There are quite a few lists out there running off i486 boxes with
small disks.  Some of them have nice bandwidth but have horrible
disk IO.

  ObExample: Up until fairly recently svlug.org (which runs mailman)
  was an i486.  Excellent outbound bandwidth.  Lousy local physical
  resources.  Subscriber base there is in the low/middle single
  digit thousands IIRC.  (Thanks to VA things are much better now)

The README should enclude notes on these factors as well.

> What do y'all think? 

I suspect Nigel Metherington is going to chime in here,

I'm interested in also seeing the percentage case, if only for
better bounce handling.

> I've included mailman-developers on this reply, since while this
> started on mm-users, it really ought to be discussed on the
> developers list...

Damned right.

> Yes, I am an agent of Satan, but my duties are largely ceremonial.

How topical.

-- 
J C Lawrence                                       claw at kanga.nu
---------(*)                          http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/
The pressure to survive and rhetoric may make strange bedfellows



From claw at kanga.nu  Sun Jun 17 18:23:59 2001
From: claw at kanga.nu (J C Lawrence)
Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2001 09:23:59 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] need urgent assistance 
In-Reply-To: Message from CJoe <canario.joe@teleline.es> 
   of "Sun, 17 Jun 2001 09:41:46 -0000." <19983517990.20010617094146@teleline.es> 
References: <19983517990.20010617094146@teleline.es> 
Message-ID: <3561.992795039@kanga.nu>

On Sun, 17 Jun 2001 09:41:46 +0000 
canario joe <CJoe> wrote:

> People will use both- and what is worse: if I use the
> name-of-list@ MAILAN wont even return an error message!

This is not a Mailman problem.  This is a problem with your MTA
configuration.

-- 
J C Lawrence                                       claw at kanga.nu
---------(*)                          http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/
The pressure to survive and rhetoric may make strange bedfellows



From claw at kanga.nu  Sun Jun 17 18:32:33 2001
From: claw at kanga.nu (J C Lawrence)
Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2001 09:32:33 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Re: [Mailman-Users] Allowing users to join without specifying pas swords 
In-Reply-To: Message from Chuq Von Rospach <chuqui@plaidworks.com> 
   of "Sun, 17 Jun 2001 08:29:50 PDT." <200106171521.f5HFLdh06227@plaidworks.com> 
References: <200106171521.f5HFLdh06227@plaidworks.com> 
Message-ID: <17409.992795553@kanga.nu>

On Sun, 17 Jun 2001 08:29:50 -0700 
Chuq Von Rospach <chuqui at plaidworks.com> wrote:

> On Sunday, June 17, 2001, at 06:21 AM, alex wetmore wrote:

>> I would argue that it should default to OFF

> I'm not surprised. It's Barry's call, but I think the customized
> URL is useful enough we want people to use it unless they have to
> turn it off, we don't want to have to try to convince the people
> who install stuff and leave everything defaulted to turn it on.

I spent some time on both sides of the fence as to which way to
default it.  I came out out on the ON side.

Reasons:

  There's a significant feature gain.

  Most of those new features help list members.

  All of them help the list owners.

  With VERP they also help the system over the longer term.

  Mailman becomes even more user friendly (by default).


The default to OFF case has the biggie:

  For most people, nothing will break and they'll have no surprises.

This is caveated by the fact that the only people that things will
break for are those that didn't read the README.

-- 
J C Lawrence                                       claw at kanga.nu
---------(*)                          http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/
The pressure to survive and rhetoric may make strange bedfellows



From bob at nleaudio.com  Sun Jun 17 21:58:30 2001
From: bob at nleaudio.com (Bob Puff@NLE)
Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2001 15:58:30 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] virtual hosting tactic
References: <E15BcX4-0007tP-00@mail.python.org>
Message-ID: <3B2D0BE6.9868E20D@nleaudio.com>

>     >> however, how do you avoid the list administrator from changing
>     >> the list preferred domain in the web interface?
> 
>     aw> I don't know that you can.  I trust my list administrators to
>     aw> leave that alone, but the only list adminsitrators besides
>     aw> myself are friends.
> 
> In MM2.1, web_page_url isn't configurable ttw.

I hope you mean "isn't configurable via the web interface"... I have installations that don't use the foo.com/mailman url scheme...

Bob



From samir at tecnohost.com.br  Sun Jun 17 22:59:57 2001
From: samir at tecnohost.com.br (Samir G. Barak)
Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2001 17:59:57 -0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Please, urgent = How can I setup a demo mail list ?
Message-ID: <9713658289.20010617175957@tecnohost.com.br>

Hi all !

Someone can tell me how I do for setup a demo
Mailman mail list?
I need do it, but I don't know how ...

All the functions in the administrative panel,
must be disable (for security reasons).

Thanks for any help !

Samir





From raif at speakeasy.net  Mon Jun 18 01:54:51 2001
From: raif at speakeasy.net (arif)
Date: 17 Jun 2001 19:54:51 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Need some help, lost messages, now getting "caught a bug error" on
 admin page
Message-ID: <992822092.1203.0.camel@localhost.localdomain>

I'm really hoping that someone can help me with this:
Mailman says that it's lost 4 messages.  There's no trace of them in
mailman/data, and in /mailman/logs/vette, they're all listed as
discarded posting -- does that mean that a list admin discarded them?
if so, then why do they appear as lost messages on the admin web page,
and is there any relationship to the bug message that's appearing at the
bottom of the admin requests page?

for what's worth, I'm running Mailman 2.0.5 on a Redhat 7.1 machine.
here's the error from the log:


<--begin snip from logs:>
Jun 15 10:57:37 2001 admin(27298):
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
admin(27298): [----- Mailman Version: 2.0.5 -----]
admin(27298): [----- Traceback ------]
admin(27298): Traceback (innermost last):
admin(27298):   File "/var/mailman//scripts/driver", line 96, in
run_main
admin(27298):     main()
admin(27298):   File "/var/mailman//Mailman/Cgi/admindb.py", line 116,
in main
admin(27298):     mlist.Save()
admin(27298):   File "/var/mailman//Mailman/MailList.py", line 859, in
Save
admin(27298):     self.SaveRequestsDb()
admin(27298):   File "/var/mailman//Mailman/ListAdmin.py", line 93, in
SaveRequestsDb
admin(27298):     self.__closedb()
admin(27298):   File "/var/mailman//Mailman/ListAdmin.py", line 80, in
__closedb
admin(27298):     fp = open(self.__filename, 'w')
admin(27298): IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied:
'/var/mailman/lists/oc/request.db'
admin(27298): [----- Python Information -----]
admin(27298): sys.version    = 1.5.2 (#1, Aug 25 2000, 09:33:37)  [GCC
2.96 20000731 (experimental)]
admin(27298): sys.executable = /usr/bin/python
admin(27298): sys.prefix     = /usr
admin(27298): sys.exec_prefix= /usr
admin(27298): sys.path       = /usr
admin(27298): sys.platform   = linux-i386
<--end log snip>

any help would be greatly appreciated.
thanks much, Arif

-- 
Arif Mamdani




From ewilts at ewilts.org  Mon Jun 18 03:13:52 2001
From: ewilts at ewilts.org (Ed Wilts)
Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2001 20:13:52 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Need some help, lost messages, now getting "caught a bug error" on admin page
In-Reply-To: <992822092.1203.0.camel@localhost.localdomain>
References: <992822092.1203.0.camel@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <0106172013521P.24130@linux1.ewilts.org>

On Sunday 17 June 2001 06:54 pm, you wrote:
> I'm really hoping that someone can help me with this:
> Mailman says that it's lost 4 messages.  There's no trace of them in
> mailman/data, and in /mailman/logs/vette, they're all listed as
> discarded posting -- does that mean that a list admin discarded them?

It could be that mailman discarded them.  Check to see if they're still in 
the data directory.

> if so, then why do they appear as lost messages on the admin web page,
> and is there any relationship to the bug message that's appearing at the
> bottom of the admin requests page?

Yup - the bug message is the same problem.

> for what's worth, I'm running Mailman 2.0.5 on a Redhat 7.1 machine.
> here's the error from the log:

Been there, done that.

> admin(27298):     fp = open(self.__filename, 'w')
> admin(27298): IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied:
> '/var/mailman/lists/oc/request.db'

That's the answer right there.  The mailman application can't open the 
request.db file for write.  To fix it when I ran into it:

# chown apache.mailman /var/mailman/lists/*/request.db
# chmod 664 /var/mailman/lists/*/request.db

It worked for me.  Whether that was the right answer or only answer I don't 
know.

Cheers,
	.../Ed

-- 
Ed Wilts, Mounds View, MN, USA
mailto:ewilts at ewilts.org



From raif at speakeasy.net  Mon Jun 18 05:14:20 2001
From: raif at speakeasy.net (arif)
Date: 17 Jun 2001 23:14:20 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Question concerning why Mailman would discard a message was:Re:Need
 some help, lost messages, now getting "caught a bug error" on admin page
In-Reply-To: <0106172013521P.24130@linux1.ewilts.org>
References: <992822092.1203.0.camel@localhost.localdomain> 
	<0106172013521P.24130@linux1.ewilts.org>
Message-ID: <992834066.1230.1.camel@localhost.localdomain>


On 17 Jun 2001 20:13:52 -0500, Ed Wilts wrote:
> On Sunday 17 June 2001 06:54 pm, you wrote:
> > I'm really hoping that someone can help me with this:
> > Mailman says that it's lost 4 messages.  There's no trace of them in
> > mailman/data, and in /mailman/logs/vette, they're all listed as
> > discarded posting -- does that mean that a list admin discarded them?
> 
> It could be that mailman discarded them.  Check to see if they're still in 
> the data directory.
> 
I'm pretty new to this, so I'm sorry if this is an obvious question
but having re-read the documentation, I don't think I understand 
why Mailman would discard a message.  Is there something I can do in how
I configure the list so that it doesn't do this?

-arif




From dagda at eircom.net  Mon Jun 18 07:37:32 2001
From: dagda at eircom.net (Karl Carlile)
Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 06:37:32 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Commands etc
Message-ID: <006101c0f7b8$c6af6340$b7fe869f@abc>

Hi
I am an owner of a listproc list. I send appropriate commands such as ones
for information, the welcome message etc but get a negative respons. The
same problem arises when I request in postings somewhat similar files. What
is the problem.

My command lines follow the correct protocol -please explain
Karl




From enriko.groen at netivity.nl  Mon Jun 18 10:45:43 2001
From: enriko.groen at netivity.nl (Enriko Groen)
Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 10:45:43 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Allowing users to join without specifying pas
	 swords
Message-ID: <510EAC2065C0D311929200A0247252622F782B@NETIVITY-FS>


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Chuq Von Rospach [mailto:chuqui at plaidworks.com]
> 
> > Computers are cheap.  Bandwidth isn't necessarily cheap.  I 
> run with a
> > very high chunking factor because my MTA properly handles it
> 
> But -- if this went away, what would it do to your bandwidth? Are you 
> paying by packet? If not, the only PRACTICAL difference is 
> that if the 
> pipe is full, delivery slows down.
> 
> What is the real cost is? That messages show up five minutes 
> later than 
> they would if we don't do this?

Well, I can give some figures...
My company is sending a newsletter on behalf of one of our clients. About
4000 subscribers.
First this was done by an Exchange mailserver (Yes, I hated it too, that's
why I came in ;).
It took the server about 8 hours to send out all mail over the 256 k
upstream. And them it would still take some days to get out the failed
messages. If the NT server didn't break.

We switched to Mailman + Postfix some weeks ago and did a newsletter.
The mailserver was on a slow 14k upstream @home line... We calculated 7
hours of delivery time.
Not an improvement to the first, but at least a stable system and over a
lower quality line.

After 3 hours I checked the mailqueue... I was supprised to find that over
90% of the mail had been delivered.
The leftover 10% was merely wrong addresses or slow mailserver (bigfoot).
Suddenly I realised that it was the "several addresses at once" feature of
Mailman + Postfix that did the trick. Especially for the big bunch of
hotmail addresses we have in the list.
--
Enriko Groen, Hosting manager
--------------------------------------------------------
netivity bv   www.netivity.nl   enriko.groen at netivity.nl
038 - 850 1000   van nagellstraat 4      8011 eb  zwolle
--------------------------------------------------------
 



From Nigel.Metheringham at InTechnology.co.uk  Mon Jun 18 11:11:59 2001
From: Nigel.Metheringham at InTechnology.co.uk (Nigel Metheringham)
Date: 18 Jun 2001 10:11:59 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Re: [Mailman-Users] Allowing users to join
	without specifying pas swords
In-Reply-To: <1411.992794960@kanga.nu>
References: <200106170738.f5H7cah28586@plaidworks.com>  
	<1411.992794960@kanga.nu>
Message-ID: <992855524.19134.1.camel@gaspode.localnet>

On 17 Jun 2001 09:22:40 -0700, J C Lawrence wrote:
> I suspect Nigel Metherington is going to chime in here,

Definitely - you mispelt my name - I *hate* that :-)

Seriously, I've just come back to this fresh and its a big chunk to
take in at one reading.  What I will do is take a weeks logs from
the exim.org lists - which have a few lists of verious sizes, and
run the figures on deliveries and bandwidth uses.

	Nigel.

--
[ Nigel Metheringham           Nigel.Metheringham at InTechnology.co.uk ]
[ Phone: +44 1423 850000                         Fax +44 1423 858866 ]
[ - Comments in this message are my own and not ITO opinion/policy - ]
[ ----- Security is not an add-on -- security is a way of life ----- ]




From bob at nleaudio.com  Mon Jun 18 18:51:18 2001
From: bob at nleaudio.com (Bob Puff@NLE)
Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 12:51:18 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] know to mkfs /var/spool with a higher inode
References: <E15C1TH-0008Ab-00@mail.python.org>
Message-ID: <3B2E3186.3335B5B0@nleaudio.com>

>   Yes, real mail admins know to mkfs /var/spool with a higher inode
>   count than the rest of their systems.  I'll let you guess what
>   percentage of mail admins actually do.
> 
> There are quite a few lists out there running off i486 boxes with
> small disks.  Some of them have nice bandwidth but have horrible
> disk IO.

Ok, I'll byte.  man mkfs tells of no options.  HOWTO?

Bob



From alex at phred.org  Mon Jun 18 19:16:42 2001
From: alex at phred.org (alex wetmore)
Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 10:16:42 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] know to mkfs /var/spool with a higher inode
In-Reply-To: <3B2E3186.3335B5B0@nleaudio.com>
Message-ID: <20010618101520.E4983-100000@phred.org>

On Mon, 18 Jun 2001, Bob Puff at NLE wrote:
> >   Yes, real mail admins know to mkfs /var/spool with a higher inode
> >   count than the rest of their systems.  I'll let you guess what
> >   percentage of mail admins actually do.
> >
> > There are quite a few lists out there running off i486 boxes with
> > small disks.  Some of them have nice bandwidth but have horrible
> > disk IO.
>
> Ok, I'll byte.  man mkfs tells of no options.  HOWTO?

Which operating system?

On FreeBSD I'd use the -i option on newfs.  This is well documented
in the newfs man page.

alex




From kd5de at nwla.com  Mon Jun 18 19:23:26 2001
From: kd5de at nwla.com (Mel)
Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 12:23:26 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Delay
Message-ID: <3B2E390E.B61B5C1B@nwla.com>

OK Folks I have a little problem with 2.0. This all of the
sudden began to happen and I don't really know where to look
for the cause. Thsi seems to be happening on only one list
out of 4 that are running on one server. Normally the mail
is delivered within 3 to 5 minutes, but the customer
complained today that it was "sluggish" and it was taking up
to 30 minutes to deliver and then all the pending post were
dilevered. I haven't had one problem since December. Tell me
where to check or at least what to tell the client.
							Mel
-- 
--------------------------
This Mail composed using Netscape 4.76
Red Hat 7.0 Linux 2.2.16
--------------------------



From alaric at babylon5.babcom.com  Mon Jun 18 19:32:06 2001
From: alaric at babylon5.babcom.com (Phil Stracchino)
Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 10:32:06 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] know to mkfs /var/spool with a higher inode
In-Reply-To: <3B2E3186.3335B5B0@nleaudio.com>; from bob@nleaudio.com on Mon, Jun 18, 2001 at 12:51:18PM -0400
References: <E15C1TH-0008Ab-00@mail.python.org> <3B2E3186.3335B5B0@nleaudio.com>
Message-ID: <20010618103206.B3532@babylon5.babcom.com>

On Mon, Jun 18, 2001 at 12:51:18PM -0400, Bob Puff at NLE wrote:
> >   Yes, real mail admins know to mkfs /var/spool with a higher inode
> >   count than the rest of their systems.  I'll let you guess what
> >   percentage of mail admins actually do.
> > 
> > There are quite a few lists out there running off i486 boxes with
> > small disks.  Some of them have nice bandwidth but have horrible
> > disk IO.
> 
> Ok, I'll byte.  man mkfs tells of no options.  HOWTO?

You usually have to look at mkfs for a specific filesystem (mke2fs on
Linux, newfs on Solaris, etc) to find the low-level options.  All those
filesystems that support it (i.e, forget trying it with mkdosfs or
mkisofs, and it's probably not meaningful on reiserfs or xfs either) say
pretty much the same thing:

       -i bytes-per-inode
              Specify  the  bytes/inode ratio.  mke2fs creates an
              inode for every bytes-per-inode bytes of  space  on
              the  disk.   The  larger the bytes-per-inode ratio,
              the fewer inodes will be created.  This value  gen-
              erally  shouldn't  be smaller than the blocksize of
              the filesystem, since then too many inodes will  be
              made.  Be warned that is not possible to expand the
              number of inodes on a filesystem after it  is  cre-
              ated,  so  be careful decided the correct value for
              this parameter.



-- 
 Linux Now!   ..........Because friends don't let friends use Microsoft.
 phil stracchino   --   the renaissance man   --   mystic zen biker geek
        alaric at babcom.com                halmayne at sourceforge.net
   2000 CBR929RR, 1991 VFR750F3 (foully murdered), 1986 VF500F (sold)



From bob at nleaudio.com  Mon Jun 18 20:04:26 2001
From: bob at nleaudio.com (Bob Puff@NLE)
Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 14:04:26 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] know to mkfs /var/spool with a higher inode
References: <20010618101520.E4983-100000@phred.org>
Message-ID: <3B2E42AA.EA65F401@nleaudio.com>

> Which operating system?

Linux (Mandrake 7.x) on a i586.

I have no "newfs".  I do have a mke2fs.  What is a suggested value for "bytes per inode" to handle the mail stuff we have been discussing?  What is the default setting?

Bob



From ncooler at nandomedia.com  Mon Jun 18 20:02:47 2001
From: ncooler at nandomedia.com (Neil Cooler)
Date: 18 Jun 2001 14:02:47 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Allowing users to join without specifying
	passwords
In-Reply-To: <200106151801.f5FI1sb03228@lists.apple.com>
References: <200106151801.f5FI1sb03228@lists.apple.com>
Message-ID: <992887367.29377.0.camel@kneel>

Is mail on this list looping for everyone, or just me?

I have gotten countless copies of this message.

--neil

On 15 Jun 2001 11:03:39 -0700, Chuq Von Rospach wrote:
> 
> On Friday, June 15, 2001, at 09:19 AM, Mark Roedel wrote:
> 
> > Interesting idea, but I wonder how well it'd work in actual practice.
> > Do we really want anybody at aol.com to be able to act on behalf of anyone
> > else in that domain?
> 
> for subscribes? definitely not. For unsubscribes? Sure. The exposure of 
> risk is trivial compared to the aggravation of hassle to a user who 
> wants off a list, and is told "first, jump through this hoop"
> 
> 
> --
> Chuq Von Rospach, Internet Gnome <http://www.chuqui.com>
> [<chuqui at plaidworks.com> = <me at chuqui.com> = <chuq at apple.com>]
> Yes, yes, I've finally finished my home page. Lucky you.
> 
> I tried to get a life once, but they were out of stock.
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users maillist  -  Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users





From alaric at babylon5.babcom.com  Mon Jun 18 20:41:24 2001
From: alaric at babylon5.babcom.com (Phil Stracchino)
Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 11:41:24 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] know to mkfs /var/spool with a higher inode
In-Reply-To: <3B2E42AA.EA65F401@nleaudio.com>; from bob@nleaudio.com on Mon, Jun 18, 2001 at 02:04:26PM -0400
References: <20010618101520.E4983-100000@phred.org> <3B2E42AA.EA65F401@nleaudio.com>
Message-ID: <20010618114124.A5490@babylon5.babcom.com>

On Mon, Jun 18, 2001 at 02:04:26PM -0400, Bob Puff at NLE wrote:
> > Which operating system?
> 
> Linux (Mandrake 7.x) on a i586.
> 
> I have no "newfs".  I do have a mke2fs.  What is a suggested value for "bytes per inode" to handle the mail stuff we have been discussing?  What is the default setting?


I quote again from 'man mke2fs':

       -i bytes-per-inode
              Specify  the  bytes/inode ratio.  mke2fs creates an
              inode for every bytes-per-inode bytes of  space  on
              the  disk.   The  larger the bytes-per-inode ratio,
              the fewer inodes will be created.  This value  gen-
              erally  shouldn't  be smaller than the blocksize of
              the filesystem, since then too many inodes will  be
              made.  [...]

Now, about a dozen lines prior to this, you'll find:

       -b block-size
              Specify the size of blocks in bytes.   Valid  block
              size values are 1024, 2048 and 4096 bytes per block.
              If omitted, mke2fs block-size is determined by  the
              file  system  size  and  the  expected usage of the
              filesystem (see the -T option).

So, your smallest allowed blocksize is 1024 bytes (1k), and the largest
legal number of inodes is one per block, which means the inode ratio and
blocksize resulting in the highest number of usable inodes is generated by
using -b 1024 -i 1024.

This is the setting I normally use for mail spools, news spools, /tmp,
etc -- anywhere you expect a large number of relatively small files to be
created.

You would do well to read through `man mke2fs` in detail and learn what
all the options do.  Knowing how your tools work is a good
thing.  Remember, always RTFM first.


-- 
 Linux Now!   ..........Because friends don't let friends use Microsoft.
 phil stracchino   --   the renaissance man   --   mystic zen biker geek
        alaric at babcom.com                halmayne at sourceforge.net
   2000 CBR929RR, 1991 VFR750F3 (foully murdered), 1986 VF500F (sold)



From claw at kanga.nu  Mon Jun 18 20:46:02 2001
From: claw at kanga.nu (J C Lawrence)
Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 11:46:02 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] know to mkfs /var/spool with a higher inode 
In-Reply-To: Message from "Bob Puff@NLE" <bob@nleaudio.com> 
   of "Mon, 18 Jun 2001 12:51:18 EDT." <3B2E3186.3335B5B0@nleaudio.com> 
References: <E15C1TH-0008Ab-00@mail.python.org>  <3B2E3186.3335B5B0@nleaudio.com> 
Message-ID: <29599.992889962@kanga.nu>

On Mon, 18 Jun 2001 12:51:18 -0400 
bob  <Puff at NLE" <bob at nleaudio.com>> wrote:

>> Yes, real mail admins know to mkfs /var/spool with a higher inode
>> count than the rest of their systems.  I'll let you guess what
>> percentage of mail admins actually do.
>> 
>> There are quite a few lists out there running off i486 boxes with
>> small disks.  Some of them have nice bandwidth but have horrible
>> disk IO.

> Ok, I'll byte.  man mkfs tells of no options.  HOWTO?

mkfs is a wrapper for the real tool which is filesystem-type
specific.  Do a man on mkreiserfs, mke2fs, or <whatever> as
applicable.

-- 
J C Lawrence                                       claw at kanga.nu
---------(*)                          http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/
The pressure to survive and rhetoric may make strange bedfellows



From Mary.Wang at West.Boeing.com  Mon Jun 18 20:54:48 2001
From: Mary.Wang at West.Boeing.com (Wang, Mary Y)
Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 11:54:48 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Administrator - where to put the message?
Message-ID: <B1E5160FDA83D211AAD900805FA7E50E06160AB8@xch-hbc-05.co.bna.boeing.com>

Hi,
I am using the Mailman as the mailing list.  I have a question, as an admin,
if the list member sends me a message that he/she wants to post. How do I
post his/her message?  I could not find this option from the administrative
functions.

Thanks in advance.

Mary
Mary 
(562) 797-1545



From elaine at elainemiller.com  Mon Jun 18 22:47:27 2001
From: elaine at elainemiller.com (Elaine Miller)
Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 13:47:27 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] endlessly repeating posts
Message-ID: <3B2E066F.21170.128D163F@localhost>

Hullo!

I've used majordomo in a small way before, and am new to Mailman. 

I have an awful problem.

I started a small list, and in its first day (when thankfully we had only 
about ten members) a woman whom I know to be net-savvy and who 
posts without trouble to other (non-Mailman) lists I'm on, posted an 
email that repeated to the general list. And repeated. And repeated. And 
repeated.

On a break from work, I noticed it happening, and unsubbed the 
originator of the post. Then I had to run back to work.

The post continued to repeat to the list -- *and* to the post originator 
through the list, despite unsubbing.

By the time I finished work an hour later and could get back to my 
computer, this rather lengthy post had arrived in my hapless 
subscriber's inboxes 428 times.

428 times.

<banging head on desk>

I set the other members to NOMAIL immediately, and tried for another 
hour to find a way to stop the echo, (including blocking her ISP at the 
server level) but eventually had to axe the list completely.

The offending post was 8.5K in size, was truncated despite being (at full 
size of about 15K) well under the 40K limit for the list. She uses 
mindspring.com as an isp.

I've set the list up from scratch, and subbed only myself, the other list 
wrangler, and the woman in question. 

We haven't had a repeat of the echo, but she still can't post anything 
over 8.5K, although I can, and so can my fellow listwrangler.

Can anyone give me an idea of what might have gone wrong, and how to 
make sure it never happens again? 

I do *not* wish to be lynched by folk who have been mail-bombed!

With hopeful thanks

Elaine





-^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
              elaine at elainemiller.com   
           http://www.elainemiller.com/
 I was planning to put my entire name in this sig file, 
         but that seemed wholly redundant.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^



From dmick at utopia.West.Sun.COM  Mon Jun 18 23:27:08 2001
From: dmick at utopia.West.Sun.COM (Dan Mick)
Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 14:27:08 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] need urgent assistance
Message-ID: <200106182127.OAA10104@utopia.West.Sun.COM>

>       NAME-OF-THE-LIST@
> 
> is not the same as
> 
>       name-of-the-list@
> 
> People  will  use  both-  

Not if one doesn't work, they won't.





From ewilts at ewilts.org  Tue Jun 19 01:18:26 2001
From: ewilts at ewilts.org (Ed Wilts)
Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 18:18:26 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Administrator - where to put the message?
In-Reply-To: <B1E5160FDA83D211AAD900805FA7E50E06160AB8@xch-hbc-05.co.bna.boeing.com>
References: <B1E5160FDA83D211AAD900805FA7E50E06160AB8@xch-hbc-05.co.bna.boeing.com>
Message-ID: <0106181818261T.24130@linux1.ewilts.org>

On Monday 18 June 2001 01:54 pm, Wang, Mary Y wrote:

> I am using the Mailman as the mailing list.  I have a question, as an
> admin, if the list member sends me a message that he/she wants to post. How
> do I post his/her message?  I could not find this option from the
> administrative functions.

The easiest thing to do is to have the user post to the list.  The message 
will be held for your approval.  You probably got an e-mail message right 
away (depending on how you configured, or you may only get once per day) with 
the URL to click on for the web admin interface.  Then click on approve and 
submit, and you're done.
-- 
Ed Wilts, Mounds View, MN, USA
mailto:ewilts at ewilts.org



From claw at kanga.nu  Tue Jun 19 01:56:54 2001
From: claw at kanga.nu (claw at kanga.nu)
Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 16:56:54 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] endlessly repeating posts 
In-Reply-To: Message from "Elaine Miller" <elaine@elainemiller.com> 
   of "Mon, 18 Jun 2001 13:47:27 PDT." <3B2E066F.21170.128D163F@localhost> 
References: <3B2E066F.21170.128D163F@localhost> 
Message-ID: <26169.992908614@2wire.com>

On Mon, 18 Jun 2001 13:47:27 -0700 
Elaine Miller <elaine at elainemiller.com> wrote:

> I started a small list, and in its first day (when thankfully we
> had only about ten members) a woman whom I know to be net-savvy
> and who posts without trouble to other (non-Mailman) lists I'm on,
> posted an email that repeated to the general list. And
> repeated. And repeated. And repeated.

You need to examine the Received: headers of several instances of
the repeated post to see exactly where it is getting duplicated.
Without digging out that fact, and other analysis you could do is
largely worthless.

Odd are its not Mailman.  Odds are its one of two places:

  -- The MTA immediately upstream of your hapless poster.

  -- A broken MTA just outside/after your Mailman setup.  It is
  possible (unlikely) its your local MTA.

Read the Received headers.  They'll tell you what's happening.

> I set the other members to NOMAIL immediately, and tried for
> another hour to find a way to stop the echo, (including blocking
> her ISP at the server level) but eventually had to axe the list
> completely.

The odds of it being Mailman (or specifically Mailman's qrunner) are
so low as to be considered zero.  Hunt the MTA chain.  This sort of
thing has happened before to other people.  It has never been
Mailman's fault.  It has ___always___ been the fault of a broken,
misconfigured, braindead (pick any two) MTA which mailman just
happened to reveal.

> I do *not* wish to be lynched by folk who have been mail-bombed!

Then you need to find the correct target.
-- 
J C Lawrence                                       claw at kanga.nu
---------(*)                          http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/
The pressure to survive and rhetoric may make strange bedfellows



From canario.joe at teleline.es  Tue Jun 19 03:57:46 2001
From: canario.joe at teleline.es (CJoe)
Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 01:57:46 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] filter doesnt work
Message-ID: <124596341.20010619015746@teleline.es>

Dear all,

I  set  up  MAILMAN  to  handle administrativia commands but this
doesnt  work. Today, I found out people can send a message with a
single  uns**cribe  command  and  it  is  distributed.  The forum
reaches over 2500 scientists and this is truly annoying.

How   can  I  get  MAILMAN  to  bounce back such kind of messages
(or send them directly to the ADMIN address) ?

Plase, advice. Thank you.


canario.joe at teleline.es
___





From sanderson at squidworks.net  Tue Jun 19 03:49:57 2001
From: sanderson at squidworks.net (Shannon Anderson)
Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 21:49:57 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Wrappers me this
Message-ID: <KAEPJAGNFKJKOEHJOAKNAENHCBAA.sanderson@squidworks.net>

Hi all,
First time caller longtime listener,

Well...  Not really but ok...

I am having some wrapper problems as it seems send mail dose not like the
way I have it setup
I suspect that I have a argument missing.

Quote from email:        -- The following addresses had permanent fatal
errors -----
"|/etc/smrsh/mailman_wrapper slug"

(reason: 6)

(expanded from: <slug-request at pong.squidworks.net>)

What arguments should go between wrapper and list name?





sanderson at squidworks.net

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From sanderson at squidworks.net  Tue Jun 19 03:56:55 2001
From: sanderson at squidworks.net (Shannon Anderson)
Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 21:56:55 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] wrapper problems
Message-ID: <KAEPJAGNFKJKOEHJOAKNIENHCBAA.sanderson@squidworks.net>

Hi all,
First time caller longtime listener,

Well...  Not really but ok...

I am having some wrapper problems as it seems send mail dose not like the
way I have it setup
I suspect that I have a argument missing.

Quote from email:        -- The following addresses had permanent fatal
errors -----
"|/etc/smrsh/mailman_wrapper slug"

(reason: 6)

(expanded from: <slug-request at pong.squidworks.net>)

What arguments should go between wrapper and list name?

Shannon M. Anderson
sanderson at squidworks.net <mailto:sanderson at squidworks.net>




From artsnews at fredsternfeld.com  Tue Jun 19 05:07:36 2001
From: artsnews at fredsternfeld.com (Performing Arts News)
Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 23:07:36 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] System Jams after I send out a message
Message-ID: <JKEPJHPLMNIINLIOOMDJMEKPCAAA.artsnews@fredsternfeld.com>

I rolled my system our for the first time this morning and I am having
problems. The system jams up. I can't access the "administer" area; my
mailing list people can't access their "options" page and people can't
subscribe. It appears that his happens a few minutes after I forward a
message and then it stays bad for three or four hours and then mysteriously
clears up until the next time I send a message out. I use mailman through
Hostway.com and I have been having trouble getting them to respond to me
with an answer.




From sanderson at squidworks.net  Tue Jun 19 05:14:57 2001
From: sanderson at squidworks.net (Shannon Anderson)
Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 23:14:57 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Wrapper me this
Message-ID: <KAEPJAGNFKJKOEHJOAKNKENJCBAA.sanderson@squidworks.net>

OK I got the list-request wrapper to work by creating a Alias to it in
sendmail

("logical" not exact wordings)

list-request =  Sendtoprogram  /etc/smrsh/mailman_wrapper mailcmd listname

and now do the same thing but change mailcmd to post? for the "listname"
wrapper.

Now is there a way built in to automate this process of adding in the
Aliases or do i need to offer up a perl script to do that for me and any one
else having similar problems.




Shannon M. Anderson
sanderson at squidworks.net <mailto:sanderson at squidworks.net>




From canario.joe at teleline.es  Tue Jun 19 10:03:09 2001
From: canario.joe at teleline.es (CJoe)
Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 08:03:09 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] cannt access the Admin interface
Message-ID: <18114006200.20010619080309@teleline.es>

I  was  connected  to  the  Admin web interface from home and the
connection was dropped by the server.

Now,  I  am  online  again  but  cannot  access the Mailman Admin
interface.

Why is this so and how can I fix it ?

Thanx you.


canario.joe at teleline.es
___





From werner at linpro.no  Tue Jun 19 09:36:30 2001
From: werner at linpro.no (Morten Werner Olsen)
Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 09:36:30 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Change html-files.
In-Reply-To: <18114006200.20010619080309@teleline.es>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0106190925490.2433-100000@jith.frs.linpro.no>

Hello.

Is it possible to update all html-files, created for every list and for
index-pages like 'listinfo' and 'admin', to make them equal to the
templates in /etc/mailman?

If yes, how?


Best regards,
Morten Werner Olsen.




From dagda at eircom.net  Tue Jun 19 09:46:45 2001
From: dagda at eircom.net (Karl Carlile)
Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 08:46:45 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] setting up mailing list
Message-ID: <009801c0f894$33378a20$e3ff869f@abc>

Hi
Is setting up a mailing list on a pc an option. If the list is to have no
more than say one hundred members and the volume of mail is about twenty or
thirty postings a day at the most. Can I use ListProc to do this. Does it
take up much space. Will I have leave my pc on continually and will that
cause my pc to wear out quicker.

What are the advantages of ListProc over majordomo etc.

Karl




From enriko.groen at netivity.nl  Tue Jun 19 10:00:40 2001
From: enriko.groen at netivity.nl (Enriko Groen)
Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 10:00:40 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] setting up mailing list
Message-ID: <510EAC2065C0D311929200A0247252622F7834@NETIVITY-FS>


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Karl Carlile [mailto:dagda at eircom.net]
> Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2001 09:47
> To: Mailman-Users at python.org
> Subject: [Mailman-Users] setting up mailing list

> Is setting up a mailing list on a pc an option. If the list 
> is to have no
> more than say one hundred members and the volume of mail is 
> about twenty or
> thirty postings a day at the most. Can I use ListProc to do 
> this. Does it
> take up much space. Will I have leave my pc on continually 
> and will that
> cause my pc to wear out quicker.
> 
> What are the advantages of ListProc over majordomo etc.

If you want to know the advantages of ListProc; you're probably on the
wronglist.
This is the Mailman mailinglist. Mailman is just another flavour of a
mailinglist manager; just as majordomo and listproc are. AFAIR ListProc is
commercial, where Majordomo and Mailman are under GNU/Public Domain.

All of these are Unix/Linux related mailinglist servers/programs... if you
want to run Mailman (or Listproc, or Majordomo) you most probably need a
computer running one of the many Unix falvours. And yes... it needs to be on
continuesly. 

I personally don't think that your PC will wear out quicker because starting
up and getting at a normal temprature can be pretty hard on your components.

--
Enriko Groen, Hosting manager
--------------------------------------------------------
netivity bv   www.netivity.nl   enriko.groen at netivity.nl
038 - 850 1000   van nagellstraat 4      8011 eb  zwolle
--------------------------------------------------------
 



From enriko.groen at netivity.nl  Tue Jun 19 10:02:45 2001
From: enriko.groen at netivity.nl (Enriko Groen)
Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 10:02:45 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] cannt access the Admin interface
Message-ID: <510EAC2065C0D311929200A0247252622F7835@NETIVITY-FS>


> -----Original Message-----
> From: CJoe [mailto:canario.joe at teleline.es]
> 
> I  was  connected  to  the  Admin web interface from home and the
> connection was dropped by the server.
> 
> Now,  I  am  online  again  but  cannot  access the Mailman Admin
> interface.
> 
> Why is this so and how can I fix it ?

Maybe there is something wrong with the webserver configuration?
Was the machine itself rebooted or the webserver reloaded/shut down?

Please add more detail to make the problem clearer. What webserver are you
running on?

--
Enriko Groen, Hosting manager
--------------------------------------------------------
netivity bv   www.netivity.nl   enriko.groen at netivity.nl
038 - 850 1000   van nagellstraat 4      8011 eb  zwolle
--------------------------------------------------------
 



From enriko.groen at netivity.nl  Tue Jun 19 10:07:24 2001
From: enriko.groen at netivity.nl (Enriko Groen)
Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 10:07:24 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Wrapper me this
Message-ID: <510EAC2065C0D311929200A0247252622F7836@NETIVITY-FS>


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Shannon Anderson [mailto:sanderson at squidworks.net]

> OK I got the list-request wrapper to work by creating a Alias to it in
> sendmail
> 
> ("logical" not exact wordings)
> 
> list-request =  Sendtoprogram  /etc/smrsh/mailman_wrapper 
> mailcmd listname
> 
> and now do the same thing but change mailcmd to post? for the 
> "listname"
> wrapper.

Yep... just run "bin/newlist" for a testlist to get a template.
When you run newlist you will get four aliases lines at the end. It isn't
quite clear that these have to be inserted in your aliases file manually,
but you have to.

> Now is there a way built in to automate this process of adding in the
> Aliases or do i need to offer up a perl script to do that for 
> me and any one
> else having similar problems.

There is no way to automate it, yet.
You'll have to insert the aliases in your aliases file when you create a new
list.

But AFAIR this is scheduled to be in the next (2.1) release.
Although I can imagine this is quite hard with all the different MTA's
around.
--
Enriko Groen, Hosting manager
--------------------------------------------------------
netivity bv   www.netivity.nl   enriko.groen at netivity.nl
038 - 850 1000   van nagellstraat 4      8011 eb  zwolle
--------------------------------------------------------
 



From ashley at pcraft.com  Tue Jun 19 10:08:28 2001
From: ashley at pcraft.com (Ashley M. Kirchner)
Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 02:08:28 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] cannt access the Admin interface
References: <18114006200.20010619080309@teleline.es>
Message-ID: <3B2F087C.81449023@pcraft.com>

CJoe wrote:

> I  was  connected  to  the  Admin web interface from home and the
> connection was dropped by the server.
> Now,  I  am  online  again  but  cannot  access the Mailman Admin
> interface.
> Why is this so and how can I fix it ?

    When you first accessed the admin interface, a lock file was
created.  When your connection was dropped, that lock file became
stale.  Look in the ~mailman/locks folder for any stale locks and remove
them.  Once you do that, you'll be able to get back to the web
interface.

    AMK4

--
H | Hi, I'm currently out of my mind.  Please leave a message.  BEEEEP!
  +--------------------------------------------------------------------
  Ashley M. Kirchner <mailto:ashley at pcraft.com>   .   303.442.6410 x130
  Director of Internet Operations / SysAdmin    .     800.441.3873 x130
  Photo Craft Laboratories, Inc.            .     3550 Arapahoe Ave, #6
  http://www.pcraft.com ..... .  .    .       Boulder, CO 80303, U.S.A.





From enriko.groen at netivity.nl  Tue Jun 19 10:10:28 2001
From: enriko.groen at netivity.nl (Enriko Groen)
Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 10:10:28 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] System Jams after I send out a message
Message-ID: <510EAC2065C0D311929200A0247252622F7837@NETIVITY-FS>


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Performing Arts News [mailto:artsnews at fredsternfeld.com]

> I rolled my system our for the first time this morning and I am having
> problems. The system jams up. I can't access the "administer" area; my
> mailing list people can't access their "options" page and people can't
> subscribe. It appears that his happens a few minutes after I forward a
> message and then it stays bad for three or four hours and 
> then mysteriously
> clears up until the next time I send a message out. I use 
> mailman through
> Hostway.com and I have been having trouble getting them to 
> respond to me
> with an answer.

It's really hard to say anything about this... you really have to encourage
the administrators at hostway.com to check on this.
Or are you allowed to view the mailman and MTA logfiles? If so, check
these... they are THE source of information when you run in to trouble.

--
Enriko Groen, Hosting manager
--------------------------------------------------------
netivity bv   www.netivity.nl   enriko.groen at netivity.nl
038 - 850 1000   van nagellstraat 4      8011 eb  zwolle
--------------------------------------------------------
 



From claw at kanga.nu  Tue Jun 19 11:05:57 2001
From: claw at kanga.nu (J C Lawrence)
Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 02:05:57 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] setting up mailing list 
In-Reply-To: Message from Enriko Groen <enriko.groen@netivity.nl> 
   of "Tue, 19 Jun 2001 10:00:40 +0200." <510EAC2065C0D311929200A0247252622F7834@NETIVITY-FS> 
References: <510EAC2065C0D311929200A0247252622F7834@NETIVITY-FS> 
Message-ID: <2822.992941557@kanga.nu>

<Karl removed from distribution list as this would be
distracting/deceptive at his level of expertise>

On Tue, 19 Jun 2001 10:00:40 +0200 
Enriko Groen <enriko.groen at netivity.nl> wrote:

> And yes... it needs to be on continuesly.

Not quite absolutely true (but close).  Given things like ETRN or
UUCP-style mail spooling (there are still a fair few dialups sucking
mail for their domains via UUCP batches under Taylor UUCP) you can
get away with not having a continuously connected system.  

  BTW: UUCP spooling is a *great* technology for the ill-connected
  third world.  You can throw good compression in on the packets,
  minimising connection time and bandwidth, time connections for
  cheapest rates, etc etc etc yada yada and do it all in a manner
  totally transparent to the rest of the 'net and email in
  general.  Its already seeing moderately wide use in Africa
  last I noticed.  Good stuff.  

Of course, not recommended unless you know what are doing, which
also means you wouldn't have asked the questions that lead to this
thread,

      ( I must be writing for the sake of the archives and    )
      ( posterity.  Yeah, that's it.  No ego involved at all. )
    O
  o
.
-- 
J C Lawrence                                       claw at kanga.nu
---------(*)                          http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/
The pressure to survive and rhetoric may make strange bedfellows



From jakes at leet.org  Tue Jun 19 16:30:41 2001
From: jakes at leet.org (David Jacobson)
Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 16:30:41 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] copy list configuration
Message-ID: <20010619163041.A20944@leet.org>

Hi All,

I have a number of lists with 3000+ members in some.  It becomes a bit of a pain
when creating a new list constantly uploading the new HTML and then changing all the config options and the headers/footers etc, is there no way I can copy the config + HTML files from another list??

Thanks in advance.
-- 
David Jacobson
Linux Administrator
ENSQUARED
Tel:  +27 11 788 8445
Fax:  +27 11 405 6424
Cell: +27 83 235 0760
Visit us @ : www.ensquared.com




From mm at laubster.org  Tue Jun 19 20:10:28 2001
From: mm at laubster.org (J.D. Laub)
Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 12:10:28 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] subscriber with bogus address
Message-ID: <3B2F9594.C55E241B@laubster.org>

Sorry if this has been asked before, but I couldn't find it in the FAQ
or the list manager's documentation, and the mailman-users archives
aren't searchable.

I'm a list admin using 2.0beta6.  While making various attempts at
working around the lack of a user name attached to an email address,
on the Member Management page I subscribed
"foo at laubster.org (foo bar)" - INCLUDING the doublequotes.  The parser
seems to have broken on whitespace, and it actually subscribed
"foo at laubster.org - note the leading doublequote.

Now when I fire up the Membership list section, "foo at laubster.org shows
up with only the digest box checked, and when I hit "submit changes"
(even without making any), the page re-draws with an 'Error
Unsubscribing: foo at laubster.org' message at the top (note the missing
doublequote on the address).  I can click on that user & it brings me to
that user's Mailman options page, but when I try to have the password
mailed, the page redraws with nothing but 'Error Invalid options to CGI
script'.

I'd like to avoid bugging my site admin if at all possible.  He's
hosting my list for free, and I don't want to wear out my welcome.  If I
do have to pester him, the more explicit the instructions, the better.

And addressing my original problem: if anybody knows a backdoor way to
get a name attached to a subscriber's email address, please let me
know.  Some of my subscribers' addresses are pretty obscure.  I've
noticed this feature is on the Wishlist, but was trying to find a
workaround.



From claw at kanga.nu  Tue Jun 19 20:46:00 2001
From: claw at kanga.nu (J C Lawrence)
Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 11:46:00 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] subscriber with bogus address 
In-Reply-To: Message from "J.D. Laub" <mm@laubster.org> 
   of "Tue, 19 Jun 2001 12:10:28 MDT." <3B2F9594.C55E241B@laubster.org> 
References: <3B2F9594.C55E241B@laubster.org> 
Message-ID: <14466.992976360@kanga.nu>

On Tue, 19 Jun 2001 12:10:28 -0600 
J D Laub <J.D.> wrote:

> I'm a list admin using 2.0beta6.  While making various attempts at
> working around the lack of a user name attached to an email
> address, on the Member Management page I subscribed
> "foo at laubster.org (foo bar)" - INCLUDING the doublequotes.  The
> parser seems to have broken on whitespace, and it actually
> subscribed "foo at laubster.org - note the leading doublequote.

To rescue this your are going to need command line access to the
host so you can either use with_list to durectly edit config.db, or
add|remove members to do the same thing.

> And addressing my original problem: if anybody knows a backdoor
> way to get a name attached to a subscriber's email address, please
> let me know.  Some of my subscribers' addresses are pretty
> obscure.  I've noticed this feature is on the Wishlist, but was
> trying to find a workaround.

There are currently no workarounds.

-- 
J C Lawrence                                       claw at kanga.nu
---------(*)                          http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/
The pressure to survive and rhetoric may make strange bedfellows



From howanitz at nindo.com  Tue Jun 19 22:46:08 2001
From: howanitz at nindo.com (Keith Howanitz)
Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 15:46:08 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman website forbidden
In-Reply-To: <14466.992976360@kanga.nu>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0106191539490.29087-100000@chauncer.greenshire.com>

Is there any provision to place a webpage at the mailman/ directory (i.e.
www.mycompany.com/mailman/ ) even if it is just a redirection to
mailman/listinfo ?  (I noticed the http://mail.python.org/mailman/ gives
the same forbidden error my server does, so I am assuming there is
somekind of security issue or something?)

-- 

-Keith
howanitz at nindo.com





From wheakory at isu.edu  Tue Jun 19 22:42:38 2001
From: wheakory at isu.edu (Kory Wheatley)
Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 14:42:38 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Spam filters
Message-ID: <3B2FB93E.C700EF49@isu.edu>

What are good Spam filters that I can add in Mailman 2.05
In the Hold Posts with Headers opiton?

--
#########################################
Kory Wheatley
Academic Computing Analyst Sr.
Phone 282-3874
#########################################
Everything must point to him.





From sanderson at squidworks.net  Tue Jun 19 23:31:04 2001
From: sanderson at squidworks.net (Shannon Anderson)
Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 17:31:04 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] list works / admin does not?
Message-ID: <KAEPJAGNFKJKOEHJOAKNGENMCBAA.sanderson@squidworks.net>

Hi all,

Just installed mailman this week and have spent some time with it figuring
out the basics.

Created 2 new lists, added wrappers to aliases file. lists are working both
posts and send-outs but the admin pages from the get-go have been erroring
out. Looking in the logs at the traceback (error log below) it seems to be a
erroring tring to open a file where permissions are applied about 15 lines
down, or is this a result of another problem?

Jun 19 17:17:35 2001 admin(12542):
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
admin(12542): [----- Mailman Version: 2.0.5 -----]
admin(12542): [----- Traceback ------]
admin(12542): Traceback (innermost last):
admin(12542):   File "/usr/mailman/scripts/driver", line 96, in run_main
admin(12542):     main()
admin(12542):   File "/usr/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/admin.py", line 143, in main
admin(12542):     mlist.Lock()
admin(12542):   File "/usr/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 1338, in Lock
admin(12542):     self.__lock.lock(timeout)
admin(12542):   File "/usr/mailman/Mailman/LockFile.py", line 219, in lock
admin(12542):     self.__write()
admin(12542):   File "/usr/mailman/Mailman/LockFile.py", line 350, in
__write
admin(12542):     fp = open(self.__tmpfname, 'w')
admin(12542): IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied:
'/usr/mailman/locks/slug.lock.pong.12542'
admin(12542): [----- Python Information -----]
admin(12542): sys.version    = 1.5.2 (#1, Aug 25 2000, 09:33:37)  [GCC 2.96
20000731 (experimental)]
admin(12542): sys.executable = /usr/bin/python
admin(12542): sys.prefix     = /usr
admin(12542): sys.exec_prefix= /usr
admin(12542): sys.path       = /usr
admin(12542): sys.platform   = linux-i386
admin(12542): [----- Environment Variables -----]
admin(12542): 	DOCUMENT_ROOT: /var/www/html
admin(12542): 	SERVER_ADDR: 208.220.181.220
admin(12542): 	HTTP_ACCEPT_ENCODING: gzip, deflate
admin(12542): 	CONTENT_LENGTH: 14
admin(12542): 	CONTENT_TYPE: application/x-www-form-urlencoded
admin(12542): 	PATH_TRANSLATED: /var/www/html/slug
admin(12542): 	REMOTE_ADDR: 65.33.186.136
admin(12542): 	SERVER_SOFTWARE: Apache/1.3.12 (Unix)  (Red Hat/Linux)
mod_ssl/2.6.6 OpenSSL/0.9.5a mod_perl/1.24
admin(12542): 	HTTP_COOKIE:
slug:admin=28020000006914c12f3b732800000036373066303566623266343066363066346
531636566633866666336393930313431626437613231
admin(12542): 	HTTP_ACCEPT_LANGUAGE: en-us
admin(12542): 	GATEWAY_INTERFACE: CGI/1.1
admin(12542): 	SERVER_PORT: 80
admin(12542): 	HTTP_CONNECTION: Keep-Alive
admin(12542): 	HTTP_USER_AGENT: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.01; Windows
NT 5.0)
admin(12542): 	HTTP_ACCEPT: */*
admin(12542): 	REQUEST_URI: /mailman/admin/slug
admin(12542): 	HTTP_CACHE_CONTROL: no-cache
admin(12542): 	QUERY_STRING:
admin(12542): 	SERVER_PROTOCOL: HTTP/1.1
admin(12542): 	PATH_INFO: /slug
admin(12542): 	HTTP_HOST: www.squidworks.net
admin(12542): 	REQUEST_METHOD: POST
admin(12542): 	SERVER_SIGNATURE: <ADDRESS>Apache/1.3.12 Server at www Port
80</ADDRESS>

admin(12542): 	SCRIPT_NAME: /mailman/admin
admin(12542): 	SERVER_ADMIN: webmaster at squidworks.net
admin(12542): 	SCRIPT_FILENAME: /usr/mailman/cgi-bin/admin
admin(12542): 	PYTHONPATH: /usr/mailman
admin(12542): 	HTTP_REFERER: http://www.squidworks.net/mailman/admin/slug
admin(12542): 	SERVER_NAME: www
admin(12542): 	REMOTE_PORT: 63386


Any Ideas why this would stop the admin site from showing up correcrly??




Shannon M. Anderson
sanderson at squidworks.net <mailto:sanderson at squidworks.net>




From sanderson at squidworks.net  Tue Jun 19 23:41:28 2001
From: sanderson at squidworks.net (Shannon Anderson)
Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 17:41:28 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Listworks/admin dose not
Message-ID: <KAEPJAGNFKJKOEHJOAKNMENMCBAA.sanderson@squidworks.net>

sorry here is what errors I get from the point just after login to admin
sites

here is the error I get from the web after logon is accepted.


Bug in Mailman version 2.0.5

We're sorry, we hit a bug!
Please inform the webmaster for this site of this problem. Printing of
traceback and other system information has been explicitly inhibited, but
the webmaster can find this information in the Mailman error logs.

Shannon M. Anderson
sanderson at squidworks.net <mailto:sanderson at squidworks.net>




From cwieland at uci.edu  Wed Jun 20 00:01:21 2001
From: cwieland at uci.edu (Con Wieland)
Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 15:01:21 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] passwords
Message-ID: <v04011704b7557bbd6091@[128.200.132.196]>

Hello

Does anyone have any experience changing the password scheme in Mailman.
I'd be interested in using kerberos or at least something more secure than
what currently exists

Con Wieland
UCI Irvine



From Mary.Wang at West.Boeing.com  Wed Jun 20 01:50:12 2001
From: Mary.Wang at West.Boeing.com (Wang, Mary Y)
Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 16:50:12 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] No root privilege on the mail server
Message-ID: <B1E5160FDA83D211AAD900805FA7E50E06160AC2@xch-hbc-05.co.bna.boeing.com>

Hi All,
I have the Mailman software loaded on my machine.  We have a mail server on
a remote machine, but
I don't have the root privilege on it.  After reading the Mailman
documentation, I need to add list aliases to the /etc/aliases file.  If I
don't have the root access, can I still set up the Mailman software
successfully?  I have the full root privilege on my own machine.  Do I need
install a mail 
server program on my machine so that I can run Mailman successfully ?  Is
there something like a virtual mail server?

Thanks in advance.
Mary 
(562) 797-1545



From sanderson at squidworks.net  Wed Jun 20 03:31:38 2001
From: sanderson at squidworks.net (Shannon Anderson)
Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 21:31:38 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] No root privilege on the mail server
Message-ID: <KAEPJAGNFKJKOEHJOAKNCENPCBAA.sanderson@squidworks.net>

There are some issues to you running SMTP server can you route mail in and
out of your network via FQDN to your box? and can you access DNS so that a
mail record could be placed for your domain.
these are just a few ? that come to mind when running a mail server

I'm sure there are some other comments some one else can make.

Shannon M. Anderson
sanderson at squidworks.net <mailto:sanderson at squidworks.net>




From techgrrl at beeze.com  Wed Jun 20 05:08:49 2001
From: techgrrl at beeze.com (Sarah K. Miller)
Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 20:08:49 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Allowing posts with certain topics/blocking all others
Message-ID: <004501c0f936$54685dd0$0200010a@home.beeze.com>

I have a list that I'd like to enforce a set of headers on. In other words, each message subject must start with a certain word in order be posted. Has anybody found a way to do this? I know I can block messages with certain headers, but I want to block all messages and only allow those with the approved headers. If anybody has a great idea how to accomplish this, please pass it on ...

 -- Sarah




From canario.joe at teleline.es  Wed Jun 20 06:20:24 2001
From: canario.joe at teleline.es (CJoe)
Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 04:20:24 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] background image/mailman interface
In-Reply-To: <004501c0f936$54685dd0$0200010a@home.beeze.com>
References: <004501c0f936$54685dd0$0200010a@home.beeze.com>
Message-ID: <16425576503.20010620042024@teleline.es>

Dear all,

I  wonder whether it is possible to change the Mailman background
image so the background fits the general design of our web site.

cheers,

canario.joe at teleline.es
___





From moacir at zuikis.uchicago.edu  Wed Jun 20 05:26:50 2001
From: moacir at zuikis.uchicago.edu (Moacir)
Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 22:26:50 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Exim doesn't forward messages to mailman
Message-ID: <20010619222649.A11410@zuikis.uchicago.edu>

My mailman setup, which has been running fine for months now, suddenly
stopped working on the 13th.

That is to say, I had all the directors, etc., set up in exim already,
and everything was working fine. Suddenly, it has all stopped. It seems
at first glance like an exim problem, but exim is handling all mail
fine-- including unsubscribe messages!

When I send a message to a list, I get this in /var/log/exim/mainlog:

2001-06-19 21:54:25 15CY8P-0008Sd-00 <= moacir at zuikis.uchicago.edu H=zuikis.uchi
cago.edu [128.135.57.157] U=moacir P=esmtp S=982 id=20010619214935.A11301 at zuikis
.uchicago.edu
2001-06-19 21:54:28 15CY8P-0008Sd-00 => test <test at mydomain.com> D=list_director
 T=list_transport
2001-06-19 21:54:28 15CY8P-0008Sd-00 Completed

It never goes from there to actually funnel the messages. 

My one hint that I've already got is this:

> exim -v -bt test
user "test" for file existence test not found
test at mydomain.com
  deliver to test in domain mydomain.com
  director = list_director, transport = list_transport

yet ~mailman/lists/test/config.db exists, which is, I think, how exim tells
if a list exists.

This has me completely stumped, and I don't even know where to look on
the mailman side of things for help. Error logs end on the 13th--the
same day the lists stopped working ;)

I upgraded from 2.0.3 to 2.0.5 and nothing changed. I made a completely
new installation of mailman (and changed the web and exim.confs
accordingly) and nothing changed. In short, and to repeat, I'm stumped.

So I have mailman 2.0.5, exim 3.22 (built Apr 10) and debian (though the
mailman install was done by hand).

--m



From louiza at home.com  Wed Jun 20 06:26:39 2001
From: louiza at home.com (Louiza)
Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 21:26:39 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Looping post again!
Message-ID: <p0500196fb755d3f498a4@[24.6.175.99]>

Hi,

I've got the same digest of my mailing list being delivered over and 
over again. I've received close to 100 copies already, myself. I've 
already got tech support working on it, but jeeze I wish there was 
something else I could do. This is the second time this problem has 
happened since I launched the list less than two months ago. I am 
feeling so discouraged. The thing is, my list members really like the 
Mailman list -- when it's working properly. :)

Any idea what I could look for in a post that might cause this 
problem? Could it simply be the problem of some folks using html in 
the posts? This particular digest ends abruptly in the midst of the 
html of a post, this is the last line:

<BR>will do/say that, then when he doesn't, it's like, 'well, what's wrong?'=

I have configured "Plain" to be the default for digests -- would it 
be better if I chose Mime?

Thanks!

Louiza



From moacir at zuikis.uchicago.edu  Wed Jun 20 08:27:00 2001
From: moacir at zuikis.uchicago.edu (Moacir)
Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 01:27:00 -0500
Subject: Flushing ~/qfiles ?  (was Re: [Mailman-Users] Exim doesn't forward messages to mailman
In-Reply-To: <20010619222649.A11410@zuikis.uchicago.edu>; from moacir@zuikis.uchicago.edu on Tue, Jun 19, 2001 at 10:26:50PM -0500
References: <20010619222649.A11410@zuikis.uchicago.edu>
Message-ID: <20010620012700.A11781@zuikis.uchicago.edu>

I wrote on 19 June 01:

> My mailman setup, which has been running fine for months now, suddenly
> stopped working on the 13th.

I still don't know why.

> This has me completely stumped, and I don't even know where to look on
> the mailman side of things for help. Error logs end on the 13th--the
> same day the lists stopped working ;)

I found all the messages inside ~mailman/qfiles. I hand-ran qrunner, and
it looks like it flushed out only two messages--the most recent.

Any ideas how I can flush the qfiles directory of all the messages in
there and get them to be processed?

tia,

--m



From claw at kanga.nu  Wed Jun 20 10:11:42 2001
From: claw at kanga.nu (J C Lawrence)
Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 01:11:42 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Spam filters 
In-Reply-To: Message from Kory Wheatley <wheakory@isu.edu> 
   of "Tue, 19 Jun 2001 14:42:38 MDT." <3B2FB93E.C700EF49@isu.edu> 
References: <3B2FB93E.C700EF49@isu.edu> 
Message-ID: <7404.993024702@kanga.nu>

On Tue, 19 Jun 2001 14:42:38 -0600 
Kory Wheatley <wheakory at isu.edu> wrote:

> What are good Spam filters that I can add in Mailman 2.05 In the
> Hold Posts with Headers opiton?

I used to use a filter before the Mailman wrapper which ran rblcheck
against the headers and added a custom X-Header if a match was
found.  I didn't do it in the MTA at the time as I only wanted it
for the one list.

I no longer have that script, but it was based of the following
procmail recipe:

  TCPREMOTEIP=`formail -xReceived|/bin/sed -ne '/\[.*\]/{ s/[^[]*.\([^]]*\)[^$]*/\1/; P;}'`
  RBL=`if [ -n "$TCPREMOTEIP" ]; then rblcheck ${TCPREMOTEIP} | /bin/fgrep -v "not RBL filtered"; fi`

  :0 fhw
  * ? [ -n "$RBL" ]
  | formail -A"X-Spam-Flags: $RBL"

rblcheck can be found here:

  http://rblcheck.sourceforge.net/

-- 
J C Lawrence                                       claw at kanga.nu
---------(*)                          http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/
The pressure to survive and rhetoric may make strange bedfellows



From claw at kanga.nu  Wed Jun 20 10:14:07 2001
From: claw at kanga.nu (J C Lawrence)
Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 01:14:07 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Allowing posts with certain topics/blocking all others 
In-Reply-To: Message from "Sarah K. Miller" <techgrrl@beeze.com> 
   of "Tue, 19 Jun 2001 20:08:49 PDT." <004501c0f936$54685dd0$0200010a@home.beeze.com> 
References: <004501c0f936$54685dd0$0200010a@home.beeze.com> 
Message-ID: <11802.993024847@kanga.nu>

On Tue, 19 Jun 2001 20:08:49 -0700 
Sarah K Miller <techgrrl at beeze.com> wrote:

> I have a list that I'd like to enforce a set of headers on. In
> other words, each message subject must start with a certain word
> in order be posted. Has anybody found a way to do this? I know I
> can block messages with certain headers, but I want to block all
> messages and only allow those with the approved headers. If
> anybody has a great idea how to accomplish this, please pass it on
> ...  -- Sarah

The trivial way would be top put a wrapper around formal in front of
the list.  Just extract the Subject header via `formail`, and then
do a regex match against your pattern.  If there's a match pipe the
message forward into Mailman, if not, delete it.

-- 
J C Lawrence                                       claw at kanga.nu
---------(*)                          http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/
The pressure to survive and rhetoric may make strange bedfellows



From david at gof.se  Wed Jun 20 12:03:35 2001
From: david at gof.se (David)
Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 12:03:35 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Digest bug
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010620115054.00bacbd0@mail.gof.se>

Dear gurus,

Take a look at this DIGEST snipped from my list.
I'm running a swedish list and get problems with 8-bit chars in the 
subject. No big deal, I can live with that. The problem is that I had 24 
messages in this digest, but the subject tells me it's 30. If you take a 
closer look, you will find 30 lines under 'Today's Topics:' Is it possible 
to fix this bug in the 2.1 version?

  Blue Skies,
  /David

Subject: gfk digest, Vol 1 #31 - 30 msgs

Today's Topics:

    1. Cert & Matrikel (Stefan Salomonsson)
    2. Re: Cert & Matrikel (Niklas Ekl?f)
    3. Re: Cert & Matrikel (Casimir Ehrenborg)
    4. SV: gfk digest, Vol 1 #30 - 51 msgs (Lars Garstam)
    5. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Saxat_fr=E5n_Down?= (David)
    6. =?iso-8859-1?Q?RE=3A_=5BGFK-talk=5D_Saxat_fr=E5n_Down?= 
(=?iso-8859-1?Q?Fredrik_Holmstr=F6m?=)
    7. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Svensk-G=F6teborgsk_ordbok?= (David)
    8. Jobb!!! (Marcus Sjolund)
    9. Re: Jobb!!! (Marcus Sjolund)
   10. =?iso-8859-1?Q?SV:_=5BGFK-talk=5D_Fallsk=E4rmsegenskaper_=28var
        :_t=E5gpas?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?sagerarna=29.?= (Fredrik Saxborn)
   11. Re: Jobb!!! (Jimbo)
   12. Re: RE: [GFK-talk] Saxat fr?n Down (Casimir Ehrenborg)
   13. Re: Re: Sm?land... (Casimir Ehrenborg)
   14. Re: SV: [GFK-talk] t?gpassagerarna (Casimir Ehrenborg)
   15. RE: Jobb!!! (Olow Svonni)
   16. Postgiro (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Arne_L=F6fving_=28EMW=29?=)
   17. =?iso-8859-1?Q?SV:_=5BGFK-talk=5D_SV:_=5BGFK-talk=5D_Fallsk=E4r
        msegenskap?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?er_=28var:_t=E5gpas_sagerarna=29.?= 
(Jonas Wallberg)
   18. Re: Postgiro (Marcus Sjolund)
   19. Re: SV: [GFK-talk] SV: [GFK-talk]
        =?iso-8859-1?Q?Fallsk=E4rmsegenskap?= er (var:
        =?iso-8859-1?Q?t=E5gpas?=  sagerarna). (Peter Denk)
   20. Re: SV: [GFK-talk] SV: [GFK-talk]
        =?iso-8859-1?Q?Fallsk=E4rmsegenskap?= er (var:
        =?iso-8859-1?Q?t=E5gpas?=  sagerarna). (Jimbo)
   21. SV: [GFK-talk] Jobb!!! (Joachim Roth)
   22. Slottskogen (Schwede)
   23. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_=5BGFK-talk=5D_Tack_f=F6r_bra_m=F6te?= (Ingela 
Kretkowski)
   24. Skjuts till S?ve imorrn! (Daniel Sonnerfjord)

--__--__--




From jorgenru at stud.ntnu.no  Wed Jun 20 14:58:22 2001
From: jorgenru at stud.ntnu.no (=?iso-8859-1?Q?J=F8rgen_Ruud?=)
Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 14:58:22 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mails not coming through
Message-ID: <20010620145822.A12504@stud.ntnu.no>

I have set up mailman, on a SUN solaris box running sendmail. The
install went okey, and i have used these flags.

./configure --prefix=/my/prefix
--with-cgi-gid=1085 --with-gcc=no \ 
--with-cgi-ext=.cgi --with-groupname=mailman --with-mail-gid=106
--with-python=/local/bin/python

Where 106 is the cyrus users UID, at first I did a install without the
with-mail-gid but got an error when sending mail to a list (about wrong
mailer-uid). 

I have added a list test to /etc/aliases, and done a newalises I have
made a symbolic link from prefix/wrapper to smrsh wrapper. I get no
error messages when sending a mail to the list, but the mail dosn't
reach it's subscribers. This is what I see in my logs. Could it be the
IMAP that screw thing up?

Jun 20 10:13:37 machine.domain.net sendmail[2130]: [ID 801593 mail.info]
NOQUEUE: connect from IDENT:postfix at brev.domain.no [***.***.**.**]
Jun 20 10:13:37 machine.domain.net sendmail[2130]: [ID 702911
mail.warning] error: safesasl(/etc/sasl/sasldb) failed: Permission
denied
Jun 20 10:13:37 machine.domain.net sendmail[2132]: [ID 801593 mail.info]
f5K8Db402132: from=<user at domain.no>, size=951, class=0,
nrcpts=1, msgid=<20010620101337.A
4526 at domain.no>, bodytype=8BITMIME, proto=ESMTP, daemon=MTA,
relay=IDENT:postfix at brev.domain.no [129.241.56.70]
Jun 20 10:13:40 machine.domain.net sendmail[2133]: [ID 801593 mail.info]
f5K8Db402132: to="|/PREFIX/mail/wrapper post
test", ctladdr=<test at internal.machine.no> (106/0), delay=00:00:03, xdelay=00:00:03, mailer=prog,
pri=30060, dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent
Jun 20 10:13:40 machine.domain.net sendmail[2133]: [ID 801593 mail.info]
f5K8Db402132: done; delay=00:00:03, ntries=1


-- 
J?rgen Ruud
jorgenru at stud.ntnu.no



From arandall at auntminnie.com  Wed Jun 20 17:16:33 2001
From: arandall at auntminnie.com (Amanda)
Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 08:16:33 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] background image/mailman interface
References: <004501c0f936$54685dd0$0200010a@home.beeze.com> <16425576503.20010620042024@teleline.es>
Message-ID: <3B30BE51.880B5F60@auntminnie.com>

All the Mailman html pages are editable, are they not? I would think
one could just pick a background image and put the tags in for it...

=)
Amanda


CJoe wrote:

> Dear all,
>
> I  wonder whether it is possible to change the Mailman background
> image so the background fits the general design of our web site.
>
> cheers,
>
> canario.joe at teleline.es
> ___
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users maillist  -  Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users




From kaja at daimi.au.dk  Wed Jun 20 19:12:00 2001
From: kaja at daimi.au.dk (Kaja P. Christiansen)
Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 19:12:00 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Looping digest - help!
Message-ID: <15152.55648.933024.99800@daimi.au.dk>


Greetings,

Last Monday, one of our mailing lists went mad and sent multiple copies 
of the same digest to the list's digest users. It happened after (my)
working hours and by the time I had a chance to react, all digest users
(but one!) received 395 copies of the same digest. What is worse, this 
is the second time it happens and we start loosing subscribers...

We run several Mailman mailing lists on tug.org, but none of the other 
lists had a similar problem. The comparison of the digest options showed
that only this particular list had 'Should a digest be dispatched daily...'
set to 'No'.

The traceback in the errors log shows:

  Jun 19 00:01:01 2001 (18618) Traceback (innermost last):
    File "/usr/local/mailman203/Mailman/Handlers/HandlerAPI.py", line 82, in do_pipeline
      func(mlist, msg, msgdata)
    File "/usr/local/mailman203/Mailman/Handlers/Sendmail.py", line 86, in process
      fp.write(msgtext)
  IOError: [Errno 32] Broken pipe

I don't know what to do to prevent it from happening again... For now, 
I set this digest option to 'Yes', hoping it'll help. 

We run Mailman 2.0.3 with Postfix. I addressed this problem earlier 
(March 26th), but there was no reply.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Kaja Christiansen



From captain_trek at yahoo.com  Wed Jun 20 19:37:20 2001
From: captain_trek at yahoo.com (Zimmer)
Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 10:37:20 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] What is this?
In-Reply-To: <3B30BE51.880B5F60@auntminnie.com>
Message-ID: <20010620173720.14765.qmail@web10103.mail.yahoo.com>

/usr/local/bin/python: can't open file
'/home/mailman/cron/qrunner'


Ok, I keep getting this in my mailman user's inbox. 
What's it mean?


A Confuzzled Zimm


=====
TuX.AfterNET.org mIRC Global Operator
AfterNET Public Radio
http://www.afternet.org/pr/apr

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail
http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/



From benwa at mail.ocentrix.com  Wed Jun 20 20:50:56 2001
From: benwa at mail.ocentrix.com (Ben Burnett)
Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 11:50:56 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] background image/mailman interface
Message-ID: <200106201850.f5KIou214016@mail.ocentrix.net>

It really depends on what pages you want to change.
If you are trying to change the listinfo, or user options
pages, you can do this in the list admin interface.

Otherwise the other pages, like the list admin pages
themselves are partially generated from templates and
partially generated within the scripts in $prefix/Mailman/
You can't really customize everyting without editing theses
scripts.

-Ben

------- Original Copy -------
>Subject: [Mailman-Users] background image/mailman interface
>Date: 06/20/2001 4:20 AM
>From: CJoe <canario.joe at teleline.es>
>To: mailman-users at python.org
>Reply-To: CJoe <canario.joe at teleline.es>

>Dear all,
>
>I  wonder whether it is possible to change the Mailman
background
>image so the background fits the general design of our web
site.
>
>cheers,
>
>canario.joe at teleline.es
>___
>
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------
>Mailman-Users maillist  -  Mailman-Users at python.org
>http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
>





From moonlitsubmit at hotmail.com  Wed Jun 20 21:50:05 2001
From: moonlitsubmit at hotmail.com (Lisa Sorensen)
Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 12:50:05 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] help needed asap
Message-ID: <F78pBpcXCXWtjik38dW000208d7@hotmail.com>

Hello,
I need to know which command to use to clear my admin requests.
I am not able to do it from my admin site without the page timing out.
Please advise,,,
Lisa
Moonlitsubmit at hotmail.com
_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com




From jwblist at olympus.net  Thu Jun 21 00:16:21 2001
From: jwblist at olympus.net (John W Baxter)
Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 15:16:21 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] What is this?
In-Reply-To: <20010620173720.14765.qmail@web10103.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20010620173720.14765.qmail@web10103.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <p05101001b756cfcb3bf0@[207.149.192.229]>

At 10:37 -0700 6/20/2001, Zimmer wrote:
>/usr/local/bin/python: can't open file
>'/home/mailman/cron/qrunner'
>
>
>Ok, I keep getting this in my mailman user's inbox.
>What's it mean?

It seems to mean that the Python interpreter can't open (read) the qrunner
script, which it expects to find--on your system--at
/home/mailman/cron/qrunner.

If you are not getting complaints about the other scripts found in
/home/mailman/cron, you can probably assume that the directory permissions
are correct and the qrunner permissions are wrong (or the file is missing,
which Python also reports as  "can't open file ...").

  --John

-- 
John Baxter   jwblist at olympus.net      Port Ludlow, WA, USA



From rodrigo at idg.com.br  Thu Jun 21 00:29:42 2001
From: rodrigo at idg.com.br (Rodrigo Leme de Mello)
Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 19:29:42 -0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Nomail members
Message-ID: <015101c0f9d8$80384f40$1057a8c0@IDG.COM.BR>

Hi all members,

I am trying to list all users from a list that has the option nomail enabled. Does anybody knows how can i perform this task?

Thanks

Rodrigo
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From dmick at utopia.West.Sun.COM  Thu Jun 21 00:37:19 2001
From: dmick at utopia.West.Sun.COM (Dan Mick)
Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 15:37:19 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Nomail members
Message-ID: <200106202237.PAA21442@utopia.West.Sun.COM>

> I am trying to list all users from a list that has the option nomail enabled. 
Does anybody knows how can i perform this task?

Use this with bin/withlist:

import sys
import Mailman.mm_cfg

def nomail(list):

   for member in list.members.keys():
      try:
         if list.user_options[member] & Mailman.mm_cfg.DisableDelivery:
            print member
      except:
         print >> sys.stderr, "%s has no user_options" % member
         pass

   for member in list.digest_members.keys():
      try:
         if list.user_options[member] & Mailman.mm_cfg.DisableDelivery:
            print member
      except:
         # normal for digest_members to have no options; means MIME digests
         pass
   sys.exit(0)




From benwa at mail.ocentrix.com  Thu Jun 21 01:24:42 2001
From: benwa at mail.ocentrix.com (Ben Burnett)
Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 16:24:42 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] help needed asap
Message-ID: <200106202324.f5KNOg517844@mail.ocentrix.net>

You might be able to get away with removing the file:

$prefix/lists/yourlist/request.db

(I would actually do a "mv request.db request.db.bak" just
in case you need them back.)

That will get rid of ALL requests that are pending.  I'm not
positive whether there are any other consequences, other
than posters not being notified that their held post was
processed, and pending subscribers not knowing if they were
approved or not.  So do this at your own risk.  Perhaps
someone with more experience (Barry?) can say if this is
safe or not.  I've verified on my installation (minutes ago)
that Mailman will automatically generate a new request.db
when it receives it's next request (or when you check to see
if there are requests pending).

-Ben

------- Original Copy -------
>Subject: [Mailman-Users] help needed asap
>Date: 06/20/2001 12:50 PM
>From: "Lisa Sorensen" <moonlitsubmit at hotmail.com>
>To: Mailman-Users at python.org

>Hello,
>I need to know which command to use to clear my admin
requests.
>I am not able to do it from my admin site without the page
timing out.
>Please advise,,,
>Lisa
>Moonlitsubmit at hotmail.com
>_________________________________________________________________
>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
http://explorer.msn.com
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------
>Mailman-Users maillist  -  Mailman-Users at python.org
>http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
>





From lleshin at davlin.net  Thu Jun 21 01:54:38 2001
From: lleshin at davlin.net (Len Leshin)
Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 18:54:38 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] html
In-Reply-To: <p05101001b756cfcb3bf0@[207.149.192.229]>
References: <20010620173720.14765.qmail@web10103.mail.yahoo.com>
 <20010620173720.14765.qmail@web10103.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4.2.2.20010620185309.00a29c10@mail.davlin.net>

When subscribers email to my list using HTML, the posts come out garbled 
and duplicated with HTML coding.  I'm instructing my members to use plain 
text when posting, but people using AOL 6.0 don't have a choice, apparently.

Anyway to get around this?

Len Leshin




From canario.joe at teleline.es  Thu Jun 21 08:05:30 2001
From: canario.joe at teleline.es (CJoe)
Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 06:05:30 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: Looping digest - help!
In-Reply-To: <15152.55648.933024.99800@daimi.au.dk>
References: <15152.55648.933024.99800@daimi.au.dk>
Message-ID: <828067333.20010621060530@teleline.es>

How can new mailers allow Mailman (or the mailer where Mailman is
run)  send 395 digests of the same number of bytes, headers, etc.
to a remote host ?

As   far   as   I   understand,  most  mail  systems  have  spam
filters,  nowdays.  This  implies  that  "machine-gunning"  mail
delivery is stopped.

Could any one explain this ?
Can Mailman be configures not to machine-gun users ?

cheers,


canario.joe at teleline.es
___

kaja at daimi.au.dk


KPC> Greetings,

KPC> Last  Monday,  one  of  our  mailing lists went mad and sent
KPC> multiple  copies  of  the  same  digest to the list's digest
KPC> users.  It happened after (my) working hours and by the time
KPC> I  had  a  chance  to  react,  all  digest  users (but one!)
KPC> received 395 copies of the same digest ...





From antares at callimaco.com  Thu Jun 21 13:00:16 2001
From: antares at callimaco.com (antares at callimaco.com)
Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 13:00:16 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] (no subject)
Message-ID: <003c01c0fa41$5c4c5ae0$2a00a8c0@max>


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From kadlec at sunserv.kfki.hu  Thu Jun 21 14:40:07 2001
From: kadlec at sunserv.kfki.hu (Kadlecsik Jozsi)
Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 14:40:07 +0200 (MEST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Caudium & mailman anyone?
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0106211436310.3949-100000@sunserv.kfki.hu>

Hello,

We have just upgraded our Roxen server to Caudium and the Mailman web
interface is stopped to work. It seems to me, Caudium is unable to handle
CGI requests like listinfo/listname.

Does anyone successfully run Mailman and Caudium together? (So we
misconfigured something...) Or it is a known bug in Caudium?

Thank you,
Jozsef Kadlecsik
--
E-mail : kadlec at sunserv.kfki.hu, kadlec at blackhole.kfki.hu
PGP key: finger kadlec at sunserv.kfki.hu | WWW: http://www.kfki.hu/~kadlec
Address: KFKI Research Institute for Particle and Nuclear Physics
         H-1525 Budapest 114, POB. 49, Hungary




From cipher at eschatek.com  Thu Jun 21 15:35:50 2001
From: cipher at eschatek.com (J B Bell)
Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 06:35:50 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Discard non-member postings automatically?
Message-ID: <20010621063549.A43680@eschatek.com>

I recently converted a list to Mailman.  Unfortunately, it's a huge spam
target, and I get many messages a day from non-members.  Slogging through
and discarding them all is very annoying.  Is there any way to set a policy
of discarding non-member postings outright?

--JB



From sweilnau at cnri.reston.va.us  Thu Jun 21 17:15:11 2001
From: sweilnau at cnri.reston.va.us (Stanley Weilnau)
Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 11:15:11 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] MIME and commands for Mailman 1.0
In-Reply-To: <15069.59189.820989.870483@anthem.wooz.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.WNT.4.05.10106211111050.489-100000@action-nt.cnri.reston.va.us>

I have a user on a list that has a corporate policy with turns plain text
messages into MIME with HTML attachments to outgoing mail server.  Is
there a way to increase the tolerance of Mailman so it cat get past MIME
headers to look at commands going to the admin address.

I do not want to extend the looking for commands in the messages to the
regular address,  just the one for the admin addresses.

Thanks,

Stanley Weilnau






From arandall at auntminnie.com  Thu Jun 21 17:55:39 2001
From: arandall at auntminnie.com (Amanda)
Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 08:55:39 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Discard non-member postings automatically?
References: <20010621063549.A43680@eschatek.com>
Message-ID: <3B3218FB.7C077F60@auntminnie.com>

JB:
Go to your admin page and set it to allow posting from members only. :-)

=)
Amanda


J B Bell wrote:

> I recently converted a list to Mailman.  Unfortunately, it's a huge spam
> target, and I get many messages a day from non-members.  Slogging through
> and discarding them all is very annoying.  Is there any way to set a policy
> of discarding non-member postings outright?
>
> --JB
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users maillist  -  Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users




From reb at taco.com  Thu Jun 21 18:22:21 2001
From: reb at taco.com (Phydeaux)
Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 12:22:21 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Discard non-member postings automatically?
In-Reply-To: <3B3218FB.7C077F60@auntminnie.com>
References: <20010621063549.A43680@eschatek.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010621121957.02dd3d10@mail.taco.com>

At 08:55 AM 6/21/2001 -0700, Amanda wrote:
>Go to your admin page and set it to allow posting from members only. :-)
>
>J B Bell wrote:
>
> > I recently converted a list to Mailman.  Unfortunately, it's a huge spam
> > target, and I get many messages a day from non-members.  Slogging through
> > and discarding them all is very annoying.  Is there any way to set a policy
> > of discarding non-member postings outright?

I'm sorry -- that's not what he wants.  When you allow posting from members
only, posts that do not meet the test are queued for the administrator. The
requested feature (I do not believe this is currently available -- I'd like it
too) is to auto-reject this kind of message, perhaps with a customizable
canned response, so the administrator does not have to deal with it.

reb




From louiza at home.com  Thu Jun 21 18:11:21 2001
From: louiza at home.com (Louiza)
Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 09:11:21 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Looping digest - help!
In-Reply-To: <15152.55648.933024.99800@daimi.au.dk>
References: <15152.55648.933024.99800@daimi.au.dk>
Message-ID: <p05001924b757ccaaeca8@[24.6.175.99]>

At 7:12 PM +0200 6/20/01, Kaja P. Christiansen wrote:
>I don't know what to do to prevent it from happening again... For now,
>I set this digest option to 'Yes', hoping it'll help.

I had mine set to "Yes" and had the looping problem, so I don't think 
this option is the cause of the problem.

Good luck,

Louiza



From louiza at home.com  Thu Jun 21 18:24:36 2001
From: louiza at home.com (Louiza)
Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 09:24:36 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Looping post again!
In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20010620083027.0369a9b0@pop3.vo.cnchost.com>
References: <5.0.0.25.2.20010619234635.03b2ee70@pop3.vo.cnchost.com>
 <5.0.0.25.2.20010619234635.03b2ee70@pop3.vo.cnchost.com>
 <5.0.0.25.2.20010620083027.0369a9b0@pop3.vo.cnchost.com>
Message-ID: <p05001925b757cd350d4c@[24.6.175.99]>

Just wanted to say goodbye and thanks for your help. There's no 
reason for me remaining on this list, since yesterday, my webhost, 
NoMonthlyFees.com, deleted my main discussion list off my website 
without any warning to me at all. Apparently, they didn't approve of 
the content that the list focuses on and had moved my site and list 
to one of their older servers -- not doubt that was why I experienced 
the latest looping post problem and other problems, like missing mail 
and stuff.

If any of you ever come across this company, NoMonthlyFees.com, be 
forewarned -- they are a bunch of liars, cheats, and thieves. The 
content of my discussion list and website may be for adults only, but 
it is not about pornography, nor does it break any obscenity laws in 
the U.S. It is about loving adult relationships, though, most of them 
monogamous, and it is about sexuality, but loving, consensual issues 
having to do with BDSM, which I guess is too perverted a topic for 
them. They took my money, though, upfront, and I never hid what my 
website deals with -- I may be "perverted", but I am honest.

If anybody knows of an honorable webhost that doesn't mind decent 
adult content with nothing sleezy or indecent about it, please 
contact me in private.

Regards to you all,

Louiza

louiza at home.com
http://spankingfiles.com



From jean-luc at villefavard.com  Thu Jun 21 19:57:34 2001
From: jean-luc at villefavard.com (JLC)
Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 10:57:34 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Looping post again!
References: <5.0.0.25.2.20010619234635.03b2ee70@pop3.vo.cnchost.com> <5.0.0.25.2.20010619234635.03b2ee70@pop3.vo.cnchost.com> <5.0.0.25.2.20010620083027.0369a9b0@pop3.vo.cnchost.com> <p05001925b757cd350d4c@[24.6.175.99]>
Message-ID: <00e701c0fa7b$b8ade760$389a2540@station.sony.com>

Sorry it look like that the E-mail I sent yesterday didn't went through.

I setup the Mailman mailing list and it is working fine, but I really like
to know if there is a possibility to diable the "awaits moderator approval"
things, I would like for peoples to be able to directly post their E-mail
and I don't want (as moderator) approve anything. I want just the members
only to be able to post. What is the "test" that they need to meet to not be
approve by the moderator?
Please I really need to know what to do.

Thanks.
JLC

--
Be sure to also check out http://www.villefavard.com.
Rajouter de la vie ? votre site web avec http://www.firstpointcom.com.
.





From claw at kanga.nu  Thu Jun 21 20:01:52 2001
From: claw at kanga.nu (J C Lawrence)
Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 11:01:52 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Discard non-member postings automatically? 
In-Reply-To: Message from J B Bell <cipher@eschatek.com> 
   of "Thu, 21 Jun 2001 06:35:50 PDT." <20010621063549.A43680@eschatek.com> 
References: <20010621063549.A43680@eschatek.com> 
Message-ID: <26236.993146512@kanga.nu>

On Thu, 21 Jun 2001 06:35:50 -0700 
J B Bell <J> wrote:

> I recently converted a list to Mailman.  Unfortunately, it's a
> huge spam target, and I get many messages a day from non-members.
> Slogging through and discarding them all is very annoying.  Is
> there any way to set a policy of discarding non-member postings
> outright?

Currently, no.  There will be.

The easiest route at this point is to preface your list with a
filter which compares the envelope or From: address (depending on
how you want to authenticate against the results of
~/bin/list_members.

-- 
J C Lawrence                                       claw at kanga.nu
---------(*)                          http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/
The pressure to survive and rhetoric may make strange bedfellows



From claw at kanga.nu  Thu Jun 21 20:03:07 2001
From: claw at kanga.nu (J C Lawrence)
Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 11:03:07 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Discard non-member postings automatically? 
In-Reply-To: Message from Amanda <arandall@auntminnie.com> 
   of "Thu, 21 Jun 2001 08:55:39 PDT." <3B3218FB.7C077F60@auntminnie.com> 
References: <20010621063549.A43680@eschatek.com>  <3B3218FB.7C077F60@auntminnie.com> 
Message-ID: <28493.993146587@kanga.nu>

On Thu, 21 Jun 2001 08:55:39 -0700 
arandall  <Amanda> wrote:

> Go to your admin page and set it to allow posting from members
> only. :-)

That leaves all non-member posts being held for moderator approval
-- precisely what he's trying to avoid.

-- 
J C Lawrence                                       claw at kanga.nu
---------(*)                          http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/
The pressure to survive and rhetoric may make strange bedfellows



From Dezo at nib.si  Thu Jun 21 20:51:50 2001
From: Dezo at nib.si (Damir Dezeljin)
Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 20:51:50 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] RH-7.1 mailman instalation problem
Message-ID: <002801c0fa83$3b73d2c0$7a3d02c1@win2k>

Dear all,

I have a RedHat-7.1 box with postfix. I tried to set up mailman
(mailman-2.0.1-2.rpm) ... I installed it with rpm -Uvh mailman-2.0.1-2.rpm,
than folow the instructions in /usr/share/doc/mailman-2.0.1/INSTALL . When I
run bin/check_perms I got:
Traceback (innermost last):
  File "bin/check_perms", line 50, in ?
    MAILMAN_GRPNAME = grp.getgrgid(MAILMAN_GID)[0]
TypeError: illegal argument type for built-in operation

I ignore the error and continue the setup ... I add a list with bin/newlist
and I try to subscribe to it trought web ... I got an E-Mail and I replay to
it just how it wants. When I do this I got an e-mail with error:
<dezo-request at pc.mojadomena.si>: Command died with status 2:
    "/var/mailman/mail/wrapper mailcmd dezo". Command output: Failure to
exec
    script. WANTED gid 12, GOT gid 99.  (Reconfigure to take 99?)

I checked /var/log/maillog:
Jun 21 17:31:24 pc postfix/local[2504]: 2721FEB67:
to=<dezo-request at pc.mojadomena.si>, relay=local, delay=0, status=bounced
(Command died with status 2: "/var/mailman/mail/wrapper mailcmd dezo".
Command output: Failure to exec script. WANTED gid 12, GOT gid 99.
(Reconfigure to take 99?) )


Can someone help me to solve the problem or point me on some HOWTO or doc
where can I find how to install an mailman rpm ???

Regards,
Damir Dezeljin

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From alaric at babylon5.babcom.com  Thu Jun 21 20:54:39 2001
From: alaric at babylon5.babcom.com (Phil Stracchino)
Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 11:54:39 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Looping post again!
In-Reply-To: <00e701c0fa7b$b8ade760$389a2540@station.sony.com>; from jean-luc@villefavard.com on Thu, Jun 21, 2001 at 10:57:34AM -0700
References: <5.0.0.25.2.20010619234635.03b2ee70@pop3.vo.cnchost.com> <5.0.0.25.2.20010619234635.03b2ee70@pop3.vo.cnchost.com> <5.0.0.25.2.20010620083027.0369a9b0@pop3.vo.cnchost.com> <p05001925b757cd350d4c@[24.6.175.99]> <00e701c0fa7b$b8ade760$389a2540@station.sony.com>
Message-ID: <20010621115439.A29724@babylon5.babcom.com>

On Thu, Jun 21, 2001 at 10:57:34AM -0700, JLC wrote:
> Sorry it look like that the E-mail I sent yesterday didn't went through.
> 
> I setup the Mailman mailing list and it is working fine, but I really like
> to know if there is a possibility to diable the "awaits moderator approval"
> things, I would like for peoples to be able to directly post their E-mail
> and I don't want (as moderator) approve anything. I want just the members
> only to be able to post. What is the "test" that they need to meet to not be
> approve by the moderator?
> Please I really need to know what to do.


Well, here's how it goes:

	-- You can have only members allowed to post.
	-- You can have no moderator approval required.
	-- Your members can still post if MailMan doesn't recognize them
	   for some reason.

	Pick any two.

If you want to get around that, you're going to have to write a front-end
filter that does pre-authentication and silently drops anything that it
doesn't recognize as coming from a list member.  The downside to that is
that if, say, one of your members' employer or ISP does something that
changes their outgoing mail address without their knowledge (say, frum
user at host1.domain.net to user at host2.domain.net), and your filter no longer
recognizes the address, then your filter's going to silently drop them,
you'll never know, they'll never know why, and they may not be able to
contact you to ask for help.


This might be just a personal opinion, but IMHO, if you don't want to be
bothered with approving erroneously-held posts or hitting one key per
message to drop spam in the bit-bucket, then you should probably think
long and hard about whether you should be administering a mailing list.


-- 
 Linux Now!   ..........Because friends don't let friends use Microsoft.
 phil stracchino   --   the renaissance man   --   mystic zen biker geek
        alaric at babcom.com                halmayne at sourceforge.net
   2000 CBR929RR, 1991 VFR750F3 (foully murdered), 1986 VF500F (sold)



From luser at ahab.com  Thu Jun 21 21:01:22 2001
From: luser at ahab.com (JT)
Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 15:01:22 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman website forbidden
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0106191539490.29087-100000@chauncer.greenshire.com>; from howanitz@nindo.com on Tue, Jun 19, 2001 at 03:46:08PM -0500
References: <14466.992976360@kanga.nu> <Pine.LNX.4.30.0106191539490.29087-100000@chauncer.greenshire.com>
Message-ID: <20010621150122.J1093@zed.unbeat.com>

The only security issue is directory indexes - most installations do
not, by default, display the contents of a directory if there is no
index.

Best thing to do would be:

A) Apache rewrite rule to accomplish the redirection:
	Redirect permanent /mailman/ /mailman/listinfo/
B) Simple CGI to accomplish the redirection, ideally by returning an
Apache redirect
C) Do B) in Python and sumbit it to the list!

Alternatively:
D) Nothing.  It's harmless.



On Tue, Jun 19, 2001 at 03:46:08PM -0500, Keith Howanitz wrote:
> Is there any provision to place a webpage at the mailman/ directory (i.e.
> www.mycompany.com/mailman/ ) even if it is just a redirection to
> mailman/listinfo ?  (I noticed the http://mail.python.org/mailman/ gives
> the same forbidden error my server does, so I am assuming there is
> somekind of security issue or something?)
> 
> -- 
> 
> -Keith
> howanitz at nindo.com
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users maillist  -  Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users



From kathy at eicc.com  Thu Jun 21 21:37:26 2001
From: kathy at eicc.com (Kathy Evans)
Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 14:37:26 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Changing Welcome Message
Message-ID: <NDBBIAMOAAKKKCANOIFGAEOHCNAA.kathy@eicc.com>

Is there a way to change the standard welcome message sent out to users?
Specifically I want to remove the line that says "To post to this list, send
your email to:  mailman-users at python.org" I don't want members to post, only
the moderator.

Thanks,

Kathy

*************
Kathy Evans
Web Designer
E.I.C.C.
kathy at eicc.om
http://www.eicc.com




From Clark.Cooper at vc3.com  Thu Jun 21 21:41:31 2001
From: Clark.Cooper at vc3.com (Clark Cooper)
Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 15:41:31 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] RH-7.1 mailman instalation problem
In-Reply-To: <002801c0fa83$3b73d2c0$7a3d02c1@win2k>
Message-ID: <200106211941.PAA14909@doit.sc.slr.com>

I would recommend downloading the source instead of using any RPMS. You
can of course download from ftp.gnu.org.  From there, look at the
INSTALL and README text files for installation.  

Basically, the problem you are having is that the RPM is precompiled for
specific a specific setup.  You will need to compile yourself with the
correct options (IE ./configure --with-mail-gid=99 ...).

-Clark



On 21 Jun, Damir Dezeljin wrote:
> Dear all,
> 
> I have a RedHat-7.1 box with postfix. I tried to set up mailman
> (mailman-2.0.1-2.rpm) ... I installed it with rpm -Uvh
> mailman-2.0.1-2.rpm, than folow the instructions in
> /usr/share/doc/mailman-2.0.1/INSTALL . When I run bin/check_perms I got:
> Traceback (innermost last):
>   File "bin/check_perms", line 50, in ?
>     MAILMAN_GRPNAME = grp.getgrgid(MAILMAN_GID)[0]
> TypeError: illegal argument type for built-in operation
> 
> I ignore the error and continue the setup ... I add a list with
> bin/newlist and I try to subscribe to it trought web ... I got an E-Mail
> and I replay to it just how it wants. When I do this I got an e-mail
> with error:
> <dezo-request at pc.mojadomena.si>: Command died with status 2:
>     "/var/mailman/mail/wrapper mailcmd dezo". Command output: Failure to
> exec
>     script. WANTED gid 12, GOT gid 99.  (Reconfigure to take 99?)
> 
> I checked /var/log/maillog:
> Jun 21 17:31:24 pc postfix/local[2504]: 2721FEB67:
> to=<dezo-request at pc.mojadomena.si>, relay=local, delay=0, status=bounced
> (Command died with status 2: "/var/mailman/mail/wrapper mailcmd dezo".
> Command output: Failure to exec script. WANTED gid 12, GOT gid 99.
> (Reconfigure to take 99?) )
> 
> 
> Can someone help me to solve the problem or point me on some HOWTO or
> doc where can I find how to install an mailman rpm ???
> 
> Regards,
> Damir Dezeljin
> 




From louiza at home.com  Thu Jun 21 21:50:15 2001
From: louiza at home.com (Louiza)
Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 12:50:15 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Discard non-member postings automatically?
In-Reply-To: <26236.993146512@kanga.nu>
References: <20010621063549.A43680@eschatek.com> <26236.993146512@kanga.nu>
Message-ID: <p05001928b757fe609abc@[24.6.175.99]>

>On Thu, 21 Jun 2001 06:35:50 -0700
>J B Bell <J> wrote:
>
>>  I recently converted a list to Mailman.  Unfortunately, it's a
>>  huge spam target, and I get many messages a day from non-members.
>>  Slogging through and discarding them all is very annoying.  Is
>>  there any way to set a policy of discarding non-member postings
>  > outright?

Hi, I'm by no means an expert, but here's how I set up Mailman, version 2.01:

Under Privacy Options:

Must posts be approved by an administrator?  No.
Restrict posting privilege to list members?   No.

And then I dropped the members e-mail addresses that I allowed to 
post in the field along with the following:

Addresses of members accepted for posting to this list without 
implicit approval requirement. (See "Restrict ... to list members" 
for whether or not this is in addition to allowing posting by list 
members

I don't know if the above works for a huge amount of members posting, 
but it worked like a charm for my 160 that were allowed to post 
unmoderated. Anyone who tried to spam or who didn't follow my newbies 
guidelines had to have their posts approved, and all I had to do was 
reject them.

Regards,

Louiza



From moonlitsubmit at hotmail.com  Thu Jun 21 22:51:35 2001
From: moonlitsubmit at hotmail.com (Moonlit Submit)
Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 13:51:35 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] re:looping post again
Message-ID: <F101mrQTWVdw6IvTDJ000007730@hotmail.com>

Hello,
I went in and checked. The only thing I changed was,
in the privacy options, this one:
"Must posts have list named in destination (to, cc) field (or be among the 
acceptable alias names, specified below)? (Details) No Yes"
I chose "no".
I think the program doesn't recognize members when this option is checked 
"yes" and so you have to approve them.
See if this works, and let me know.
Lisa



>From: "JLC" <jean-luc at villefavard.com>
>To: "Moonlit Submit" <moonlitsubmit at hotmail.com>
>Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Looping post again!
>Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 13:36:27 -0700
>
>Great, here is the links,
>http://starsfrog.com/mailman/listinfo/starsfrog_starsfrog.com
>and the PW is mlfrogy.
>Please let me know what you think was wrong.
>JLC
>--
>Be sure to also check out http://www.villefavard.com.
>Rajouter de la vie ? votre site web avec http://www.firstpointcom.com.
>.
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Moonlit Submit" <moonlitsubmit at hotmail.com>
>To: <jean-luc at villefavard.com>
>Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2001 1:31 PM
>Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Looping post again!
>
>
> > Sure, I can take a look for you right now,
> > I'm on:-)
> > Lisa
> >
> >
> > >From: "JLC" <jean-luc at villefavard.com>
> > >To: "Lisa Sorensen" <moonlitsubmit at hotmail.com>
> > >Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Looping post again!
> > >Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 13:04:10 -0700
> > >
> > >Hi Lisa, I don't know what I am doing wrong but it still asking for
> > >approval, do you mind having a look to my mailing list administration
>page
> > >to compare with yours and change what need to be changed to avoid that?
>If
> > >yes I'll send you all to acces to it.
> > >Thanks.
> > >JLC
> > >--
> > >Be sure to also check out http://www.villefavard.com.
> > >Rajouter de la vie ? votre site web avec http://www.firstpointcom.com.
> > >.
> > >
> > >----- Original Message -----
> > >From: "Lisa Sorensen" <moonlitsubmit at hotmail.com>
> > >To: <jean-luc at villefavard.com>
> > >Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2001 12:12 PM
> > >Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Looping post again!
> > >
> > >
> > > > I did this and it works:
> > > > remove the "-owner" from the box in the general options.
> > > > Lisa
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >From: "JLC" <jean-luc at villefavard.com>
> > > > >To: <mailman-users at python.org>
> > > > >Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Looping post again!
> > > > >Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 10:57:34 -0700
> > > > >
> > > > >Sorry it look like that the E-mail I sent yesterday didn't went
> > >through.
> > > > >
> > > > >I setup the Mailman mailing list and it is working fine, but I 
>really
> > >like
> > > > >to know if there is a possibility to diable the "awaits moderator
> > >approval"
> > > > >things, I would like for peoples to be able to directly post their
> > >E-mail
> > > > >and I don't want (as moderator) approve anything. I want just the
> > >members
> > > > >only to be able to post. What is the "test" that they need to meet 
>to
> > >not
> > > > >be
> > > > >approve by the moderator?
> > > > >Please I really need to know what to do.
> > > > >
> > > > >Thanks.
> > > > >JLC
> > > > >
> > > > >--
> > > > >Be sure to also check out http://www.villefavard.com.
> > > > >Rajouter de la vie ? votre site web avec
>http://www.firstpointcom.com.
> > > > >.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >------------------------------------------------------
> > > > >Mailman-Users maillist  -  Mailman-Users at python.org
> > > > >http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> > > >
> > > > _________________________________________________________________
> > > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
> > > >
> > >
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
> >
>

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com




From rodrigo at idg.com.br  Fri Jun 22 02:12:54 2001
From: rodrigo at idg.com.br (Rodrigo Leme de Mello)
Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 21:12:54 -0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] qfiles large and no list posts
Message-ID: <02e201c0fab0$156fa400$1057a8c0@IDG.COM.BR>

Hi all,

Dan Mick, thanks for your last help.

I am in trouble just right now with mailman 2.0b5 with postfix.
All messages that i post to some list doesn't appear in the web interface to post, and all lists are moderated.
I've checked some curious things. The cron is working well, no problems with cron logs. I don't have any locks. 
The qfiles folder has tons of files.
The error log of mailman logs the following message when the cron calls the qrunner script:

Jun 21 21:16:02 2001 qrunner(826):      kids = main(lock)
Jun 21 21:16:02 2001 qrunner(826):   File "/usr/lib/mailman/cron/qrunner", line
245, in main
Jun 21 21:16:02 2001 qrunner(826):      keepqueued = dispose_message(mlist, msg,
 msgdata)
Jun 21 21:16:02 2001 qrunner(826):   File "/usr/lib/mailman/cron/qrunner", line
121, in dispose_message
Jun 21 21:16:02 2001 qrunner(826):      if BouncerAPI.ScanMessages(mlist, mimems
g):
Jun 21 21:16:02 2001 qrunner(826):   File "./usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Bouncers/Bo
uncerAPI.py", line 54, in ScanMessages
Jun 21 21:16:02 2001 qrunner(826):   File "./usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Bouncers/Po
stfix.py", line 39, in process
Jun 21 21:16:02 2001 qrunner(826):   File "/usr/lib/python1.5/multifile.py", lin
e 121, in next
Jun 21 21:16:02 2001 qrunner(826):      while self.readline(): pass
Jun 21 21:16:02 2001 qrunner(826):   File "/usr/lib/python1.5/multifile.py", lin
e 93, in readline
Jun 21 21:16:02 2001 qrunner(826):      if marker == self.section_divider(sep):
Jun 21 21:16:02 2001 qrunner(826):   File "/usr/lib/python1.5/multifile.py", lin
e 157, in section_divider
Jun 21 21:16:02 2001 qrunner(826):      return "--" + str
Jun 21 21:16:02 2001 qrunner(826): TypeError :  illegal argument type for built-
in operation

Does anybody know what is going on?

Thanks

Rodrigo




From cyberG at igroupnet.co.kr  Fri Jun 22 05:57:56 2001
From: cyberG at igroupnet.co.kr (Park Joon Hyun)
Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 12:57:56 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Want to solve the GID trouble with Postfix
Message-ID: <004201c0facf$85116d60$de733ed3@krcyber>

Hi there,

I'm trying to get Mailman running on a RH7.1 system.
And MTA is Postfix instead of Sendmail. I got rid of Sendmail.

When I configure the Mailman, I used the following options:
./configure --with-mail-gid=75 --with-cgi-gid=99

That was configured GIDs of my linux box are as follows,

Postfix GID = 75
nobody GID = 99
Mailman GID = 501

After configured Mailman and created new list of 'test3', I sent an
email to the list. And I got the following error message back:

<test3 at yadong.pe.kr>: Command died with status 2: "/home/mailman/mail/wrapper post
    test3". Command output: Failure to exec script. WANTED gid 75, GOT gid 99.
    (Reconfigure to take 99?)

What's wrong? Do u have any idea?

Thanks in advance,
phyllis

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From sunbts at yahoo.com  Fri Jun 22 06:14:55 2001
From: sunbts at yahoo.com (joseph eugene)
Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 21:14:55 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Test Mail with attachments
Message-ID: <20010622041455.4151.qmail@web11001.mail.yahoo.com>

Test Mail with attachments

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail
http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
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From canario.joe at teleline.es  Fri Jun 22 08:21:57 2001
From: canario.joe at teleline.es (=?ISO-8859-1?B?qSCqIE4gqiCuIGkgMCBKb8Y=?=)
Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 06:21:57 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] from time to time ...
Message-ID: <5315617728.20010622062157@teleline.es>

Dear all, from time to time, the distribution of messages sent to
the  list  is  halted. Do temporary files accumulate somewhere in
the   Mailman   topology   ?   If  so,  how  can  I  clean  this
"automatically" ?

thanx & cheers,

canario.joe at teleline.es
___
? ? N ? ? i 0 Jo?





From dagda at eircom.net  Fri Jun 22 08:32:45 2001
From: dagda at eircom.net (Karl Carlile)
Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 07:32:45 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Linux and downloading
Message-ID: <001e01c0fae5$27227bc0$46ff869f@abc>

Would it take long to download linux for free. I have a 56kp US Robotics
Sportser and an ordinary line. Secondly if you have Red HatLinux 6.0 can you
upgrade to Red Hat 7.1 and does it cost much.
My problem is that I can buy a manual type book on Linux about 6 or 700
pages long in hard back called i think mastering linux with red hat linux
6.oo or red hat linux in a box for a little more. I was wondering if i got
the one with the manual i might be able to upgrad by downloading for free.

Karl




From enriko.groen at netivity.nl  Fri Jun 22 08:47:42 2001
From: enriko.groen at netivity.nl (Enriko Groen)
Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 08:47:42 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] from time to time ...
Message-ID: <510EAC2065C0D311929200A0247252622F7872@NETIVITY-FS>


> -----Original Message-----
> From: ? ? N ? ? i 0 Jo? [mailto:canario.joe at teleline.es]
> 
> Dear all, from time to time, the distribution of messages sent to
> the  list  is  halted. Do temporary files accumulate somewhere in
> the   Mailman   topology   ?   If  so,  how  can  I  clean  this
> "automatically" ?

You'll have to check the logfiles to be sure it's mailman that puts mail 'on
hold'.
When you experience (bah... isn't that word loaded these days) a delay,
check mailman's logfiles to see if the message did reach Mailman. Also check
if anything got sent.

Also check th MTA logfiles.

Maybe you have problems with the qrunner process in the cron?

--
Enriko Groen, Hosting manager
--------------------------------------------------------
netivity bv   www.netivity.nl   enriko.groen at netivity.nl
038 - 850 1000   van nagellstraat 4      8011 eb  zwolle
--------------------------------------------------------
 



From jean-luc at villefavard.com  Fri Jun 22 09:16:53 2001
From: jean-luc at villefavard.com (Jean-Luc)
Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 00:16:53 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] approving mail if you.......
In-Reply-To: <510EAC2065C0D311929200A0247252622F7872@NETIVITY-FS>
Message-ID: <LOBBJLPPOFGHDKPCNCKBIEMGCHAA.jean-luc@villefavard.com>

>You need this password to configure your mailing list.  You also need
>it to handle administrative requests, such as approving mail if you
>choose to run a moderated list.

I don't want to approve mail, how can I choose to do not run a moderated
list? I am sorry but English isn't my first language, so I can't really
catch all the explanation, can somebody help me please?
Thanks.
JLC






From hengel.zambrano at madbiz.net  Sat Jun 23 00:24:17 2001
From: hengel.zambrano at madbiz.net (Hengel  Zambrano)
Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 18:24:17 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] =?iso-8859-1?Q?I_can=B4t_go_to_the_list_archives?=
Message-ID: <001f01c0fb6a$1780dc40$1900a8c0@madbiz.net>

Hello, I have just instaled mailman, I think it is cool, but I can?t go to lists archives option in the administrator web page.


The steps that I have made are the followings:

1. I created a list 
2. I created few users
3. I subscribed an user via e-mail commands
4. But when I want to access the list archive to see what messages I have sent I cannot access the link ?go to lists archives ?


I get the following error:

------- ERROR ---------
Forbidden
You don't have permission to access /pipermail/venezuela/ on this server. 


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Apache/1.3.14 Server at www.madbiz.net Port 80

---------------------------------

I have reviewed the directories permisons, but I not found anything.

What Can I do ?


Thank a lot,

Hengel Zambrano


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From rodrigo at idg.com.br  Sat Jun 23 01:24:48 2001
From: rodrigo at idg.com.br (Rodrigo Leme de Mello)
Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 20:24:48 -0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Documentation
Message-ID: <00a201c0fb72$87966d80$1057a8c0@IDG.COM.BR>

Hi all,

I have some little doubts and i hope do not disturb you. I 've looked for documentation and failed.
I manage some lists, all of them are moderated and the traffic is very high, i would like to understand how is the process of an
incoming message til the moderator aproves it, and also, after the aprovement, i mean, what happens in the system.
The qrunner is called every minute, what does he do?
The files inside the directory qfiles are messages waiting to go out or are messages waiting for an aproval, or both :-) ?

Any help will be welcome

Thanks

Rodrigo




From dagda at eircom.net  Sat Jun 23 08:07:08 2001
From: dagda at eircom.net (Karl Carlile)
Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2001 07:07:08 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Programming Languages
Message-ID: <001501c0fbaa$bd0afd40$31ff869f@abc>

Hi
What is the more appropriate programming language to use for Linux --perhaps
one suitable and sufficently developed for Linux and Windows. I have learned
a litle Turbo C++ in the past. But it seems it a language more for DOS and
Windows that Unix or Linux. I read somewhere that C is a more suitable
language to learn.

The point is that I have been learning, quite satisfactorily HTML, and all
the more after hearing what Enriko had to say. My success and enthuasism
here is due to it being of use in developing web pages. I can see its use
and how I can use it. With the general programming languages I cannot see
the sense in learning if there is no reason why I should learn it. I dont
want to go through a learning process that involves writing elementary
useless programmes that of no benefit to me. If I could see the use of a
language I would have less difficulty about it. Enriko has added to my views
as to why I should create and develop my own web pages by hand using the
html code. Now makes sense to the exercise. Because immediately I can start
working on my web pages. If programming was shown to be more immediately
relevant perhaps more people would learn it etc.

Thanks you for assisting me in various ways. I have been learning from your
responses.

Regards Karl




From dagda at eircom.net  Sat Jun 23 08:17:31 2001
From: dagda at eircom.net (Karl Carlile)
Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2001 07:17:31 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] The 386 PC and Linux
Message-ID: <003501c0fbac$3096a6a0$31ff869f@abc>

Important question. Need to know today before I order. Do all versions of
the Linux operating systems run on 386 and 486.If so what ones do? Much of
the propaganda says that they can be run  on a 386.If the cds with the
operating system are up to gig and more how then can they operate from a
386.

Karl




From canario.joe at teleline.es  Sat Jun 23 11:16:40 2001
From: canario.joe at teleline.es (CJoe)
Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2001 09:16:40 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: The 386 PC and Linux
In-Reply-To: <003501c0fbac$3096a6a0$31ff869f@abc>
References: <003501c0fbac$3096a6a0$31ff869f@abc>
Message-ID: <13313519666.20010623091640@teleline.es>

err, are you going to order a 386/486 ? ... you can find Pentiums
at  100-166  MHz  (which  run fast on Linux) for a few (very few)
dollars ...

Linux will run on 386/486s. As console (non-xwindows) it will run
with  8  Mb  of RAM. X-Windows requires more RAM (at least 16, 32
recommended).  X-Windows  on  a 386 ... mmhhh ... I would like to
see Mailman doing copies to 1 k users in a 386 ...

Linux+Mailman will run fast on a Pentium at 100 MHz with 64 Mb of
RAM.  The  suggested  Linux  distributions  (all include Mailman,
Postfix    or    Sendmail,   Python,   etc.)   may   be:   Debian
(www.debian.org)   which   is  the  real  GNU  Linux  and  RedHat
(www.redhat.com)  which  is  a ("capitalist pig" ? ;-) commercial
approach.

cheers,

canario.joe at teleline.es
___
PD.  First  time  ever  I  hear the concept of a "communist think
tank".  None  of  the hardware/software mentioned above were ever
developed in a communist country. What about "gulag.org" ? hehehe
...

dagda at eircom.net

KC> Important question. Need to know today before I order. Do all
KC> versions of the Linux operating systems run on 386 and 486.If
KC> so what ones do? Much of the propaganda says that they can be
KC> run  on  a 386.If the cds with the operating system are up to
KC> gig and more how then can they operate from a 386.

KC> Karl


KC> ------------------------------------------------------
KC> Mailman-Users maillist  -  Mailman-Users at python.org
KC> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users





From dagda at eircom.net  Sat Jun 23 10:44:17 2001
From: dagda at eircom.net (Karl Carlile)
Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2001 09:44:17 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Corel Linux
Message-ID: <003601c0fbc0$b1ebff20$98fe869f@abc>

Have just gotten a copy of Corel Linux. Is it of any use.Is it sufficient as
an operating system or what. Should I still go out and boy Redhat 7.1. Is
there much difference between Redhat Linux 6 and 7.1
Karl





From juha at saarinen.org  Sat Jun 23 12:06:48 2001
From: juha at saarinen.org (Juha Saarinen)
Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2001 22:06:48 +1200 (NZST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Corel Linux
In-Reply-To: <003601c0fbc0$b1ebff20$98fe869f@abc>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0106232205100.1922-100000@vimfuego.saarinen.org>

On Sat, 23 Jun 2001, Karl Carlile wrote:

> Have just gotten a copy of Corel Linux. Is it of any use.Is it sufficient as
> an operating system or what. Should I still go out and boy Redhat 7.1. Is
> there much difference between Redhat Linux 6 and 7.1
> Karl

Karl, this is the wrong mailing list for those questions. Join the Red Hat
and Corel lists instead.


-- 
Regards,


Juha

PGP fingerprint:
B7E1 CC52 5FCA 9756 B502  10C8 4CD8 B066 12F3 9544




From be at be.uk.co  Sat Jun 23 12:13:15 2001
From: be at be.uk.co (BE.uk.co)
Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2001 11:13:15 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Email Subscribe
Message-ID: <005701c0fbcd$39d4f8e0$7a6a68d5@default>

Hi,

I've sent an email to my mailing lists email address with the subject 'Subscribe' although it did not subscribe the email address to the mailing list.
How can someone email the list and get subscribed automatically?

Regards,
Robert Kerry

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From barry at digicool.com  Sat Jun 23 20:58:19 2001
From: barry at digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2001 14:58:19 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Looping post again!
References: <p0500196fb755d3f498a4@[24.6.175.99]>
Message-ID: <15156.59083.646185.496404@anthem.wooz.org>

>>>>> "L" == Louiza  <louiza at home.com> writes:

    L> Any idea what I could look for in a post that might cause this
    L> problem? Could it simply be the problem of some folks using
    L> html in the posts? This particular digest ends abruptly in the
    L> midst of the html of a post, this is the last line:

    L> <BR>will do/say that, then when he doesn't, it's like, 'well,
    L> what's wrong?'=

It's possible that there was a message with an embedded null and it's
confusing your MTA.  Which MTA are you using?  Can you locate the file
in the qfiles directory, and if so, can you scan it for nulls?

-Barry



From barry at digicool.com  Sat Jun 23 20:59:25 2001
From: barry at digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2001 14:59:25 -0400
Subject: Flushing ~/qfiles ?  (was Re: [Mailman-Users] Exim doesn't forward messages to mailman
References: <20010619222649.A11410@zuikis.uchicago.edu>
	<20010620012700.A11781@zuikis.uchicago.edu>
Message-ID: <15156.59149.549813.564203@anthem.wooz.org>

>>>>> "M" == Moacir  <moacir at zuikis.uchicago.edu> writes:

    M> I found all the messages inside ~mailman/qfiles. I hand-ran
    M> qrunner, and it looks like it flushed out only two
    M> messages--the most recent.

See if there are any relevant entries in logs/error.

-Barry



From barry at digicool.com  Sat Jun 23 21:00:45 2001
From: barry at digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2001 15:00:45 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Digest bug
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20010620115054.00bacbd0@mail.gof.se>
Message-ID: <15156.59229.921219.705553@anthem.wooz.org>

>>>>> "D" == David  <david at gof.se> writes:

    D> The problem is that I had 24 messages in this digest, but the
    D> subject tells me it's
    D> 30. If you take a closer look, you will find 30 lines under
    D> 'Today's Topics:' Is it possible to fix this bug in the 2.1
    D> version?

Known bug in MM2.0.x which is caused by multiline Subject:'s.  Too
hard to fix in MM2.0.x but it is fixed in MM2.1cvs.

-Barry



From claw at kanga.nu  Sat Jun 23 21:14:45 2001
From: claw at kanga.nu (J C Lawrence)
Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2001 12:14:45 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Looping post again! 
In-Reply-To: Message from barry@digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw) 
   of "Sat, 23 Jun 2001 14:58:19 EDT." <15156.59083.646185.496404@anthem.wooz.org> 
References: <p0500196fb755d3f498a4@[24.6.175.99]>  <15156.59083.646185.496404@anthem.wooz.org> 
Message-ID: <31209.993323685@kanga.nu>

On Sat, 23 Jun 2001 14:58:19 -0400 
Barry A Warsaw <barry at digicool.com> wrote:

> It's possible that there was a message with an embedded null and
> it's confusing your MTA.  Which MTA are you using?  Can you locate
> the file in the qfiles directory, and if so, can you scan it for
> nulls?


ObBitch:

  NUL (one L) is the name of the ASCII character with an integer
  value of zero (0).

  NULL (type Ls) is a pointer type in languages derived from BCPL
  (eg C, C++, etc).


-- 
J C Lawrence                                       claw at kanga.nu
---------(*)                          http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/
Endlessly invited misery, meaningless machination; why be human?



From be at be.uk.co  Sat Jun 23 21:18:41 2001
From: be at be.uk.co (BE.uk.co)
Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2001 20:18:41 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help!
References: <p0500196fb755d3f498a4@[24.6.175.99]>  <15156.59083.646185.496404@anthem.wooz.org>  <31209.993323685@kanga.nu>
Message-ID: <023401c0fc19$57d60680$7a6a68d5@default>

Hi,

How does someone join a mailing list be emailing?
I've tried putting 'subscribe' in the header although it just submits it as
a post!

Thanks for your help!

Robert Kerry



----- Original Message -----
From: J C Lawrence <claw at kanga.nu>
To: Barry A. Warsaw <barry at digicool.com>
Cc: Louiza <louiza at home.com>; <>
Sent: Saturday, June 23, 2001 8:14 PM
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Looping post again!


> On Sat, 23 Jun 2001 14:58:19 -0400
> Barry A Warsaw <barry at digicool.com> wrote:
>
> > It's possible that there was a message with an embedded null and
> > it's confusing your MTA.  Which MTA are you using?  Can you locate
> > the file in the qfiles directory, and if so, can you scan it for
> > nulls?
>
>
> ObBitch:
>
>   NUL (one L) is the name of the ASCII character with an integer
>   value of zero (0).
>
>   NULL (type Ls) is a pointer type in languages derived from BCPL
>   (eg C, C++, etc).
>
>
> --
> J C Lawrence                                       claw at kanga.nu
> ---------(*)                          http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/
> Endlessly invited misery, meaningless machination; why be human?
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users maillist  -  Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
>
>




From claw at kanga.nu  Sat Jun 23 21:31:01 2001
From: claw at kanga.nu (J C Lawrence)
Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2001 12:31:01 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help! 
In-Reply-To: Message from "BE.uk.co" <be@be.uk.co> 
   of "Sat, 23 Jun 2001 20:18:41 BST." <023401c0fc19$57d60680$7a6a68d5@default> 
References: <p0500196fb755d3f498a4@[24.6.175.99]> <15156.59083.646185.496404@anthem.wooz.org> <31209.993323685@kanga.nu>  <023401c0fc19$57d60680$7a6a68d5@default> 
Message-ID: <1603.993324661@kanga.nu>

On Sat, 23 Jun 2001 20:18:41 +0100 
BE uk co <BE.uk.co> wrote:

> Hi, How does someone join a mailing list be emailing?  I've tried
> putting 'subscribe' in the header although it just submits it as a
> post!

Have you read the headers on messages from this list?

-- 
J C Lawrence                                       claw at kanga.nu
---------(*)                          http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/
Endlessly invited misery, meaningless machination; why be human?



From be at be.uk.co  Sat Jun 23 21:40:23 2001
From: be at be.uk.co (BE.uk.co)
Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2001 20:40:23 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help! 
References: <p0500196fb755d3f498a4@[24.6.175.99]> <15156.59083.646185.496404@anthem.wooz.org> <31209.993323685@kanga.nu>  <023401c0fc19$57d60680$7a6a68d5@default>  <1603.993324661@kanga.nu>
Message-ID: <024001c0fc1c$5fa1d8a0$7a6a68d5@default>

> On Sat, 23 Jun 2001 20:18:41 +0100 
> BE uk co <BE.uk.co> wrote:
> 
> > Hi, How does someone join a mailing list be emailing?  I've tried
> > putting 'subscribe' in the header although it just submits it as a
> > post!
> 
> Have you read the headers on messages from this list?

They don't say anything! Do they?




From alaric at babylon5.babcom.com  Sat Jun 23 22:02:10 2001
From: alaric at babylon5.babcom.com (Phil Stracchino)
Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2001 13:02:10 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] The 386 PC and Linux
In-Reply-To: <003501c0fbac$3096a6a0$31ff869f@abc>; from dagda@eircom.net on Sat, Jun 23, 2001 at 07:17:31AM +0100
References: <003501c0fbac$3096a6a0$31ff869f@abc>
Message-ID: <20010623130210.A27913@babylon5.babcom.com>

On Sat, Jun 23, 2001 at 07:17:31AM +0100, Karl Carlile wrote:
> Important question. Need to know today before I order. Do all versions of
> the Linux operating systems run on 386 and 486.If so what ones do? Much of
> the propaganda says that they can be run  on a 386.If the cds with the
> operating system are up to gig and more how then can they operate from a
> 386.


If it's not a silly question, why are you asking question after question
about the comparative merits of Linux distributions, on a mailing list for
users of one specific mailing-list manager?



-- 
 Linux Now!   ..........Because friends don't let friends use Microsoft.
 phil stracchino   --   the renaissance man   --   mystic zen biker geek
        alaric at babcom.com                halmayne at sourceforge.net
   2000 CBR929RR, 1991 VFR750F3 (foully murdered), 1986 VF500F (sold)



From alaric at babylon5.babcom.com  Sat Jun 23 22:07:25 2001
From: alaric at babylon5.babcom.com (Phil Stracchino)
Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2001 13:07:25 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help!
In-Reply-To: <024001c0fc1c$5fa1d8a0$7a6a68d5@default>; from be@be.uk.co on Sat, Jun 23, 2001 at 08:40:23PM +0100
References: <p0500196fb755d3f498a4@[24.6.175.99]> <15156.59083.646185.496404@anthem.wooz.org> <31209.993323685@kanga.nu> <023401c0fc19$57d60680$7a6a68d5@default> <1603.993324661@kanga.nu> <024001c0fc1c$5fa1d8a0$7a6a68d5@default>
Message-ID: <20010623130725.B27913@babylon5.babcom.com>

On Sat, Jun 23, 2001 at 08:40:23PM +0100, BE.uk.co wrote:
> > On Sat, 23 Jun 2001 20:18:41 +0100 
> > BE uk co <BE.uk.co> wrote:
> > 
> > > Hi, How does someone join a mailing list be emailing?  I've tried
> > > putting 'subscribe' in the header although it just submits it as a
> > > post!
> > 
> > Have you read the headers on messages from this list?
> 
> They don't say anything! Do they?


Quoting from the headers of both your own message and the one you were
replying to:

List-Help: <mailto:mailman-users-request at python.org?subject=help>
List-Post: <mailto:mailman-users at python.org>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users>,
        <mailto:mailman-users-request at python.org?subject=subscribe>
List-Id: Mailman mailing list management users <mailman-users.python.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users>,
        <mailto:mailman-users-request at python.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/>   


What are you using to send and read mail, and does it have an option to
show you message headers?



-- 
 Linux Now!   ..........Because friends don't let friends use Microsoft.
 phil stracchino   --   the renaissance man   --   mystic zen biker geek
        alaric at babcom.com                halmayne at sourceforge.net
   2000 CBR929RR, 1991 VFR750F3 (foully murdered), 1986 VF500F (sold)



From jwblist at olympus.net  Sat Jun 23 22:14:25 2001
From: jwblist at olympus.net (John W Baxter)
Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2001 13:14:25 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help!
In-Reply-To: <024001c0fc1c$5fa1d8a0$7a6a68d5@default>
References: <p0500196fb755d3f498a4@[24.6.175.99]>
 <15156.59083.646185.496404@anthem.wooz.org> <31209.993323685@kanga.nu> 
 <023401c0fc19$57d60680$7a6a68d5@default>  <1603.993324661@kanga.nu>
 <024001c0fc1c$5fa1d8a0$7a6a68d5@default>
Message-ID: <p05101002b75aa8edec05@[207.149.192.229]>

At 20:40 +0100 6/23/2001, BE.uk.co wrote:
>[Quoting another]
>> Have you read the headers on messages from this list?
>
>They don't say anything! Do they?


The FULL headers do...extracting from same:

List-Help: <mailto:mailman-users-request at python.org?subject=help>
List-Post: <mailto:mailman-users at python.org>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users>,
	<mailto:mailman-users-request at python.org?subject=subscribe>
List-Id: Mailman mailing list management users <mailman-users.python.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users>,
	<mailto:mailman-users-request at python.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/>


-- 
John Baxter   jwblist at olympus.net      Port Ludlow, WA, USA



From dagda at eircom.net  Sun Jun 24 00:10:29 2001
From: dagda at eircom.net (Karl Carlile)
Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2001 23:10:29 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and phone bills
Message-ID: <003201c0fc31$51e17120$a3fe869f@abc>

If you put mailman on a machine such as pentium three to use it as a mailing
server with a moderate amount of mail how to phone call costs work. If mail
are sent to your server while the server is in sleep mode do you pay for
such incoming calls. On the other hand that posting that comes in must go
out to in my case up to a hundred subscribers. Does that form part of the
phone cost bill. And if it is does it amount to just one phone call since
all the one hundred are sent out together.

Karl




From alaric at babylon5.babcom.com  Sun Jun 24 00:27:42 2001
From: alaric at babylon5.babcom.com (Phil Stracchino)
Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2001 15:27:42 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and phone bills
In-Reply-To: <003201c0fc31$51e17120$a3fe869f@abc>; from dagda@eircom.net on Sat, Jun 23, 2001 at 11:10:29PM +0100
References: <003201c0fc31$51e17120$a3fe869f@abc>
Message-ID: <20010623152742.A32123@babylon5.babcom.com>

On Sat, Jun 23, 2001 at 11:10:29PM +0100, Karl Carlile wrote:
> If you put mailman on a machine such as pentium three to use it as a mailing
> server with a moderate amount of mail how to phone call costs work. If mail
> are sent to your server while the server is in sleep mode do you pay for
> such incoming calls. On the other hand that posting that comes in must go
> out to in my case up to a hundred subscribers. Does that form part of the
> phone cost bill. And if it is does it amount to just one phone call since
> all the one hundred are sent out together.
> 
> Karl


This is a troll, right?



-- 
 Linux Now!   ..........Because friends don't let friends use Microsoft.
 phil stracchino   --   the renaissance man   --   mystic zen biker geek
        alaric at babcom.com                halmayne at sourceforge.net
   2000 CBR929RR, 1991 VFR750F3 (foully murdered), 1986 VF500F (sold)



From mary at bgumail.bgu.ac.il  Sun Jun 24 14:15:40 2001
From: mary at bgumail.bgu.ac.il (Marina Markus)
Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2001 15:15:40 +0300 (IDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Saving names of list members
Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.4.21.0106241501300.28529-100000@sansana.bgu.ac.il>

Hello Everyone!

I am going to start a Mailman-based list. The tool looks very
convenient, but I am stuck with the following problem: the list
owner-to-be insists on knowing names of the list members
in addition to their email addresses.

I tried a trick of adding "John Doe <john at aaa.com>", but Mailman
just picks the address and throws away the name. 

Does any of you have a hint how to add - and then to be able to see -
names of subscribers to their addresses? Any wrapper to Mailman?

Thanks in advance,

Marina Markus
Ben-Gurion University Computer Center
Beer-Sheva, Israel
======================
mary at bgumail.bgu.ac.il




From ewilts at ewilts.org  Sun Jun 24 15:20:58 2001
From: ewilts at ewilts.org (Ed Wilts)
Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2001 08:20:58 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and phone bills
In-Reply-To: <20010623152742.A32123@babylon5.babcom.com>
References: <003201c0fc31$51e17120$a3fe869f@abc> <20010623152742.A32123@babylon5.babcom.com>
Message-ID: <0106240820580G.31385@linux1.ewilts.org>

On Saturday 23 June 2001 05:27 pm, Phil Stracchino wrote:
> On Sat, Jun 23, 2001 at 11:10:29PM +0100, Karl Carlile wrote:
> > If you put mailman on a machine such as pentium three to use it as a
> > mailing server with a moderate amount of mail how to phone call costs
> > work. If mail are sent to your server while the server is in sleep mode
> > do you pay for such incoming calls. On the other hand that posting that
> > comes in must go out to in my case up to a hundred subscribers. Does that
> > form part of the phone cost bill. And if it is does it amount to just one
> > phone call since all the one hundred are sent out together.

> This is a troll, right?

Not necessarily.  There are places in the world where local phone calls are 
billable.  Karl posted from an Irish ISP, and it wouldn't surprise me if 
local calls there aren't free.  He needs to clarify how his ISP and phone 
calls are billed and then determine if he's got a specific Mailman issue (in 
which case this list might be appropriate) or a general Internet connectivity 
issue (frequency of PPP calls, etc) that might be better answered in other 
lists.

-- 
Ed Wilts, Mounds View, MN, USA
mailto:ewilts at ewilts.org



From claw at kanga.nu  Sun Jun 24 20:36:15 2001
From: claw at kanga.nu (J C Lawrence)
Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2001 11:36:15 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Saving names of list members 
In-Reply-To: Message from Marina Markus <mary@bgumail.bgu.ac.il> 
   of "Sun, 24 Jun 2001 15:15:40 +0300." <Pine.OSF.4.21.0106241501300.28529-100000@sansana.bgu.ac.il> 
References: <Pine.OSF.4.21.0106241501300.28529-100000@sansana.bgu.ac.il> 
Message-ID: <16301.993407775@kanga.nu>

On Sun, 24 Jun 2001 15:15:40 +0300 (IDT) 
Marina Markus <mary at bgumail.bgu.ac.il> wrote:

> I am going to start a Mailman-based list. The tool looks very
> convenient, but I am stuck with the following problem: the list
> owner-to-be insists on knowing names of the list members in
> addition to their email addresses.

This is not currently possible with Mailman.

-- 
J C Lawrence                                             claw at kanga.nu
---------(*)                                http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/
I never claimed to be human.



From alaric at babylon5.babcom.com  Sun Jun 24 21:35:33 2001
From: alaric at babylon5.babcom.com (Phil Stracchino)
Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2001 12:35:33 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archive problems revisited
Message-ID: <20010624123533.A2812@babylon5.babcom.com>

I just got a clue about my MailMan archiving problems in the form of an
error message traceback.  Here's the key line:

OSError: [Errno 2] No such file or
directory: '/opt/mailman/archives/private/ba-b5.mbox/ba-b5.mbox'

Can anyone tell me what would be likely to cause this incorrect path to be
generated?


-- 
 Linux Now!   ..........Because friends don't let friends use Microsoft.
 phil stracchino   --   the renaissance man   --   mystic zen biker geek
        alaric at babcom.com                halmayne at sourceforge.net
   2000 CBR929RR, 1991 VFR750F3 (foully murdered), 1986 VF500F (sold)



From alaric at babylon5.babcom.com  Sun Jun 24 22:31:29 2001
From: alaric at babylon5.babcom.com (Phil Stracchino)
Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2001 13:31:29 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and phone bills
In-Reply-To: <0106240820580G.31385@linux1.ewilts.org>; from ewilts@ewilts.org on Sun, Jun 24, 2001 at 08:20:58AM -0500
References: <003201c0fc31$51e17120$a3fe869f@abc> <20010623152742.A32123@babylon5.babcom.com> <0106240820580G.31385@linux1.ewilts.org>
Message-ID: <20010624133129.A4404@babylon5.babcom.com>

On Sun, Jun 24, 2001 at 08:20:58AM -0500, Ed Wilts wrote:
> On Saturday 23 June 2001 05:27 pm, Phil Stracchino wrote:
> > On Sat, Jun 23, 2001 at 11:10:29PM +0100, Karl Carlile wrote:
> > > If you put mailman on a machine such as pentium three to use it as a
> > > mailing server with a moderate amount of mail how to phone call costs
> > > work. If mail are sent to your server while the server is in sleep mode
> > > do you pay for such incoming calls. On the other hand that posting that
> > > comes in must go out to in my case up to a hundred subscribers. Does that
> > > form part of the phone cost bill. And if it is does it amount to just one
> > > phone call since all the one hundred are sent out together.
> 
> > This is a troll, right?
> 
> Not necessarily.  There are places in the world where local phone calls are 
> billable.  Karl posted from an Irish ISP, and it wouldn't surprise me if 
> local calls there aren't free.  He needs to clarify how his ISP and phone 
> calls are billed and then determine if he's got a specific Mailman issue (in 
> which case this list might be appropriate) or a general Internet connectivity 
> issue (frequency of PPP calls, etc) that might be better answered in other 
> lists.


If his server is already online, then he should know already that personal
email he receives doesn't show up as a per-message charge on his phone
bill, and if he can receive mail without a per-message phone charge, then
MailMan can receive mail without it showing up as a per-message phone
charge.  Incoming mail's not going to cost him any money.  If his machine
is offline, whether he has it set up to wake up and auto-answer or not,
it's not going to cost him any money.  The UK has no free *outgoing* local
calling, but you still don't get billed for incoming calls (the cellular
companies are the only ones who've managed to get away with that racket)
or calls that you miss and don't answer at all.  Anyone should know that.

*8-year-old kids* fer crissake know that it doesn't cost any money to
answer a call when the phone rings.  This isn't rocket science.

As for the outgoing replies, if he's gotten connected at least once and
sent at least one mail message then he should know that it's only one call
*at most* (assuming he isn't already connected when the reply goes out,
which seems unlikely since if he wasn't connected, it couldn't come in),
unless he's gone to the trouble to make his machine dial out, send one
message, disconnect, dial out, send the next message, disconnect, dial
out, send the next message, disconnect ....

(And if he has, not only does he not need to be asking the question, his
setup needs to be written up in a paper to the Journal of Irreproducible
Results [for research that cannot or *should* not be repeated].)


This is why I wondered if it was a troll.  I find it implausible that
anyone could be competent to get an Internet access account set up,
develop a need to host a mailing list, find and choose Mailman, get
subscribed to the list, figure out that he wants to run Linux, and still
be unaware that it doesn't cost him any money to pick up the receiver when
the phone rings.


-- 
 Linux Now!   ..........Because friends don't let friends use Microsoft.
 phil stracchino   --   the renaissance man   --   mystic zen biker geek
        alaric at babcom.com                halmayne at sourceforge.net
   2000 CBR929RR, 1991 VFR750F3 (foully murdered), 1986 VF500F (sold)



From rogerk at QueerNet.ORG  Sun Jun 24 22:36:55 2001
From: rogerk at QueerNet.ORG (Roger B.A. Klorese)
Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2001 13:36:55 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and phone bills
In-Reply-To: <20010624133129.A4404@babylon5.babcom.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSI.4.32.0106241335530.29430-100000@castro.queernet.org>

On Sun, 24 Jun 2001, Phil Stracchino wrote:
> *8-year-old kids* fer crissake know that it doesn't cost any money to
> answer a call when the phone rings.

On a land line in the US.

You can't speak with authority about anything else, can you?
-- 
ROGER B.A. KLORESE                                          rogerk at QueerNet.ORG
PO Box 14309		                                San Francisco, CA 94114
"Go without hate. But not without rage. Heal the world."        -- Paul Monette




From alaric at babylon5.babcom.com  Sun Jun 24 22:56:15 2001
From: alaric at babylon5.babcom.com (Phil Stracchino)
Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2001 13:56:15 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and phone bills
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSI.4.32.0106241335530.29430-100000@castro.queernet.org>; from rogerk@QueerNet.ORG on Sun, Jun 24, 2001 at 01:36:55PM -0700
References: <20010624133129.A4404@babylon5.babcom.com> <Pine.BSI.4.32.0106241335530.29430-100000@castro.queernet.org>
Message-ID: <20010624135615.A5365@babylon5.babcom.com>

On Sun, Jun 24, 2001 at 01:36:55PM -0700, Roger B.A. Klorese wrote:
> On Sun, 24 Jun 2001, Phil Stracchino wrote:
> > *8-year-old kids* fer crissake know that it doesn't cost any money to
> > answer a call when the phone rings.
> 
> On a land line in the US.
> 
> You can't speak with authority about anything else, can you?

Never assume.  I used to live in the UK myself.


-- 
 Linux Now!   ..........Because friends don't let friends use Microsoft.
 phil stracchino   --   the renaissance man   --   mystic zen biker geek
        alaric at babcom.com                halmayne at sourceforge.net
   2000 CBR929RR, 1991 VFR750F3 (foully murdered), 1986 VF500F (sold)



From juha at saarinen.org  Sun Jun 24 22:59:16 2001
From: juha at saarinen.org (Juha Saarinen)
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 08:59:16 +1200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and phone bills
In-Reply-To: <20010624135615.A5365@babylon5.babcom.com>
Message-ID: <005401c0fcf0$87b06990$0a01a8c0@den2>

:: Never assume.  I used to live in the UK myself.

Landlines work like that in Australia, NZ and SE Asia too... ;-)

-- Juha




From rogerk at QueerNet.ORG  Sun Jun 24 23:02:16 2001
From: rogerk at QueerNet.ORG (Roger B.A. Klorese)
Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2001 14:02:16 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and phone bills
In-Reply-To: <20010624135615.A5365@babylon5.babcom.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSI.4.32.0106241401570.555-100000@castro.queernet.org>

On Sun, 24 Jun 2001, Phil Stracchino wrote:
> > You can't speak with authority about anything else, can you?
>
> Never assume.  I used to live in the UK myself.

OK, 2 countries down.
-- 
ROGER B.A. KLORESE                                          rogerk at QueerNet.ORG
PO Box 14309		                                San Francisco, CA 94114
"Go without hate. But not without rage. Heal the world."        -- Paul Monette




From juha at saarinen.org  Sun Jun 24 23:08:26 2001
From: juha at saarinen.org (Juha Saarinen)
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 09:08:26 +1200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and phone bills
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSI.4.32.0106241401570.555-100000@castro.queernet.org>
Message-ID: <005c01c0fcf1$cf94b080$0a01a8c0@den2>

:: > Never assume.  I used to live in the UK myself.
:: 
:: OK, 2 countries down.

And in the Nordic countries, Germany, and France... ;-)

-- Juha




From ashley at pcraft.com  Sun Jun 24 23:09:03 2001
From: ashley at pcraft.com (Ashley M. Kirchner)
Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2001 15:09:03 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and phone bills
References: <003201c0fc31$51e17120$a3fe869f@abc> <20010623152742.A32123@babylon5.babcom.com> <0106240820580G.31385@linux1.ewilts.org> <20010624133129.A4404@babylon5.babcom.com>
Message-ID: <3B3656EF.40D0BEB0@pcraft.com>

Phil Stracchino wrote:

> *8-year-old kids* fer crissake know that it doesn't cost any money to
> answer a call when the phone rings.  This isn't rocket science.

    Practice your own preaching.  "Never assume anything."  There are countries
where you DO get billed for incoming calls.  So will your calling party, even if
you don't answer the phone.

--
H | Hi, I'm currently out of my mind.  Please leave a message.  BEEEEP!
  +--------------------------------------------------------------------
  Ashley M. Kirchner <mailto:ashley at pcraft.com>   .   303.442.6410 x130
  Director of Internet Operations / SysAdmin    .     800.441.3873 x130
  Photo Craft Laboratories, Inc.            .     3550 Arapahoe Ave, #6
  http://www.pcraft.com ..... .  .    .       Boulder, CO 80303, U.S.A.





From juha at saarinen.org  Sun Jun 24 23:13:35 2001
From: juha at saarinen.org (Juha Saarinen)
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 09:13:35 +1200 (NZST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and phone bills
In-Reply-To: <3B3656EF.40D0BEB0@pcraft.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0106250913160.1922-100000@vimfuego.saarinen.org>

On Sun, 24 Jun 2001, Ashley M. Kirchner wrote:

>     Practice your own preaching.  "Never assume anything."  There are countries
> where you DO get billed for incoming calls.  So will your calling party, even if
> you don't answer the phone.

Which countries would that be? Just curious.

-- 
Regards,


Juha

PGP fingerprint:
B7E1 CC52 5FCA 9756 B502  10C8 4CD8 B066 12F3 9544




From chuqui at plaidworks.com  Sun Jun 24 23:13:05 2001
From: chuqui at plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach)
Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2001 14:13:05 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and phone bills
In-Reply-To: <3B3656EF.40D0BEB0@pcraft.com>
Message-ID: <200106242104.f5OL4lh31224@plaidworks.com>

On Sunday, June 24, 2001, at 02:09 PM, Ashley M. Kirchner wrote:
> Phil Stracchino wrote:
>
>> *8-year-old kids* fer crissake know that it doesn't cost any money to
>> answer a call when the phone rings.  This isn't rocket science.
>
>     Practice your own preaching.

I'm not list mom, but I play one on TV. Speaking for Barry, I can only 
say "let's cut this out and get back to talking about mailman"

Are we done spraying testosterone all over the mail list yet? Or do we 
need another round of proving we're an even bigger expert than you are?




--
Chuq Von Rospach, Internet Gnome <http://www.chuqui.com>
[<chuqui at plaidworks.com> = <me at chuqui.com> = <chuq at apple.com>]
Yes, yes, I've finally finished my home page. Lucky you.

I wish I could say your enthusiasm was contagious...





From alaric at babylon5.babcom.com  Sun Jun 24 23:43:43 2001
From: alaric at babylon5.babcom.com (Phil Stracchino)
Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2001 14:43:43 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and phone bills
In-Reply-To: <3B3656EF.40D0BEB0@pcraft.com>; from ashley@pcraft.com on Sun, Jun 24, 2001 at 03:09:03PM -0600
References: <003201c0fc31$51e17120$a3fe869f@abc> <20010623152742.A32123@babylon5.babcom.com> <0106240820580G.31385@linux1.ewilts.org> <20010624133129.A4404@babylon5.babcom.com> <3B3656EF.40D0BEB0@pcraft.com>
Message-ID: <20010624144343.A6490@babylon5.babcom.com>

On Sun, Jun 24, 2001 at 03:09:03PM -0600, Ashley M. Kirchner wrote:
>     Practice your own preaching.  "Never assume anything."  There are countries
> where you DO get billed for incoming calls.  So will your calling party, even if
> you don't answer the phone.


Yes, there are, but *he doesn't live in one of them*.


-- 
 Linux Now!   ..........Because friends don't let friends use Microsoft.
 phil stracchino   --   the renaissance man   --   mystic zen biker geek
        alaric at babcom.com                halmayne at sourceforge.net
   2000 CBR929RR, 1991 VFR750F3 (foully murdered), 1986 VF500F (sold)



From devdas at worldgatein.net  Mon Jun 25 09:00:53 2001
From: devdas at worldgatein.net (Devdas Bhagat)
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 12:30:53 +0530
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Email Subscribe
In-Reply-To: <005701c0fbcd$39d4f8e0$7a6a68d5@default>
References: <005701c0fbcd$39d4f8e0$7a6a68d5@default>
Message-ID: <01062512342306.03724@office.interoffice>

On Sat, 23 Jun 2001, BE.uk.co spewed into the ether:
> I've sent an email to my mailing lists email address with the subject 'Subscribe' although it did not subscribe the email address to the mailing list.
> How can someone email the list and get subscribed automatically?
mailto:email-address-request at mail.server.domain?subject=sbuscribe

Devdas Bhagat
--
The last thing one knows in constructing a work is what to put first.
		-- Blaise Pascal



From dgrether at fimi.org  Mon Jun 25 08:55:27 2001
From: dgrether at fimi.org (Dan and Robby Grether)
Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2001 23:55:27 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Multiple identical copies (100s) ad nauseum being sent as
 daily digest
Message-ID: <4.2.2.20010624235356.00b6a100@pop3.norton.antivirus>

Dear Mailman-Users,

We are again having the problem of multiple (100s) of emails coming from 
our mailing list. The regular emailings are working fine, but the vol 17 
msg 4 of our daily digest is spewing out 100s of copies to those who were 
subscribed to the daily digest. I have unsubscribe everyone who was 
subscribed to the daily digest, but the copies keep coming. How can they be 
stopped? How can this problem be prevented in the future.

I would rather not shut down the whole list---again---to stop them.

Yours,

Dan




From vizisz at freemail.hu  Mon Jun 25 09:15:35 2001
From: vizisz at freemail.hu (Vizi Szilard)
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 09:15:35 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: =?iso-8859-2?Q?I_can=B4t_go_to_the_list_archives?=
In-Reply-To: <001f01c0fb6a$1780dc40$1900a8c0@madbiz.net>; from hengel.zambrano@madbiz.net on Fri, Jun 22, 2001 at 06:24:17PM -0400
References: <001f01c0fb6a$1780dc40$1900a8c0@madbiz.net>
Message-ID: <20010625091535.A21999@freemail.hu>

Hello,

Hengel  Zambrano wrote:
> Hello, I have just instaled mailman, I think it is cool, but I 
> can?t go to lists archives option in the administrator web page.
... 
> ------- ERROR ---------
> Forbidden
> You don't have permission to access /pipermail/venezuela/ on this server. 

Try to send first a message to that list, the archive page is not
available until a message arrives to the list.
This is a TODO for newer versions.

After that you can access you archive.
If you want to erase that test message:
   * remove $prefix/archives/private/<listname>
   * edit $prefix/archives/private/<listname>.mbox/<listname>.mbox [optional]
   * run $prefix/bin/arch <listname> 
(From the FAQ)

> I have reviewed the directories permisons, but I not found anything.
Please try 'bin/check_perms -f' to correct permission problems
instead of any handy work.

Szilard Vizi
-------------
mailto:vizisz at freemail.hu             UIN:10676592



From chuqui at plaidworks.com  Mon Jun 25 09:10:58 2001
From: chuqui at plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach)
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 00:10:58 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Multiple identical copies (100s) ad nauseum being sent as daily digest
In-Reply-To: <4.2.2.20010624235356.00b6a100@pop3.norton.antivirus>
Message-ID: <200106250702.f5P72dh09802@plaidworks.com>

On Sunday, June 24, 2001, at 11:55 PM, Dan and Robby Grether wrote:

> How can they be stopped? How can this problem be prevented in the 
> future.
>

first thing you need to do is find out where the duplicates are coming 
from. that means going into the logs to find them.

Don't assume mailman's doing it, either. It could also be the MTA 
(sendmail, whatever).

Is this happening to all users? or just users at one site? Because if 
it's the latter, it could be THAT site that's looping, and not your 
fault at all.

you won't know until you go into your logs and find out where the loop 
starts. And we can't do that for you...

There are many possible sources to loops. Until you find it, we can't 
answer your questiosn.


--
Chuq Von Rospach, Internet Gnome <http://www.chuqui.com>
[<chuqui at plaidworks.com> = <me at chuqui.com> = <chuq at apple.com>]
Yes, yes, I've finally finished my home page. Lucky you.

95% of being a net.god is sounding persuasive
and convincing people you know what you're talking about, even when 
you're
making it up as you go along. (chuq von rospach, 1992)





From JJarvis at trueposition.com  Mon Jun 25 14:46:08 2001
From: JJarvis at trueposition.com (Jarvis, John)
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 08:46:08 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] The 386 PC and Linux
Message-ID: <3166C01D5E20D411AE6900508BC76CE8CC4445@fstpkop1.trueposition.com>

Hell yeah it supports 386.
If you don't have alot of HDD don't install things you don't need.  I used
to run mailman, a webserver and a mailserver on my 486.. (hows that for
"propaganda") heck you would be amazed with what you can do with a stripped
down kernel on a floppy disk.
But hopefully if this is someway related to mailman (as you are writing to
it's listserv) I wouldn't expect too much performance..  When more and more
people started using my list, the 486 eventually died and I had to upgrade
it to a pentium.



-Jarv

-----Original Message-----
From: Karl Carlile [mailto:dagda at eircom.net]
Sent: Saturday, June 23, 2001 2:18 AM
To: mailman-users at python.org
Subject: [Mailman-Users] The 386 PC and Linux


Important question. Need to know today before I order. Do all versions of
the Linux operating systems run on 386 and 486.If so what ones do? Much of
the propaganda says that they can be run  on a 386.If the cds with the
operating system are up to gig and more how then can they operate from a
386.

Karl


------------------------------------------------------
Mailman-Users maillist  -  Mailman-Users at python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users



From mic at t0.or.at  Mon Jun 25 16:29:24 2001
From: mic at t0.or.at (Michael Dosser)
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 16:29:24 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Wrong email addresses leading to mail-loops
Message-ID: <20010625162924.C89489@t0.or.at>

Hello dear list members!

We were running mailman 2.02beta and moved to new a new server (FreeBSD 
4.3-STABLE, sendmail 8.11.4 and mailman 2.03). all lists are working fine.

Problem description:
Whenever a members email address is wrong, e.g. bla at .bla.org or whenever a local
email adress has no mailbox qrunner tries to deliver x-times to all members,
which it has reached until the wrong email address. It obviously stops when we
delete the files in $MAILMANHOME/qfiles. But this cannot be the solution since
nobody is sitting there watching postmaster mails every second ;)
Anyway: this is very annoying since lots of members unsubscribed after this 
has happened ... uhm, and: yes, we have bounce options activated on every list
with the options: "5","3","5","disable and notify me". Secound uhm: yes, I
searched the archive, but have not found anything similar.

Question:
Is this a bug in mailman 2.03 or did i make some configuration errors?

If the latter is the case, I added the servers configuration below, hope that's
not to much ...

Settings:

mm_cfg.py:

DEFAULT_HOST_NAME = 'mailman.domain.bla'
DEFAULT_URL       = 'http://mailman.domain.bla/mailman/'
MAILMAN_OWNER     = 'mailman-owner at xxx.xxx'
PUBLIC_ARCHIVE_URL = '/pipermail'
PRIVATE_ARCHIVE_URL = '/mailman/private'
MAX_SPAWNS        = 100
SMTP_MAX_RCPTS = 100
DELIVERY_MODULE = 'Sendmail'
SENDMAIL_CMD = '/usr/sbin/sendmail'

Sendmail:

First looks up the virtusertable and maps then to aliases. All local users
have a virtusertable entry and for every domain we have we put a
@domain.bla error:nouser User unknown
We have cyrus as the local delivery agent.

config.mc:

divert(-1)
VERSIONID(`$Id: generic-bsd4.4.mc,v 8.11 2001/04/04 16:26:02 mic Exp $')dnl
OSTYPE(bsd4.4)dnl
DOMAIN(generic)dnl
define(`confCW_FILE', `-o /etc/mail/sendmail.cw')dnl
define(`confPRIVACY_FLAGS', `authwarnings,needmailhelo,noexpn,novrfy')dnl
define(`confTO_CONNECT', `1m')dnl
define(`confTO_QUEUERETURN', `4d')dnl
define(`confTO_QUEUEWARN', `4h')dnl
define(`ALIAS_FILE', `/etc/mail/aliases')dnl
define(`confAUTH_MECHANISMS',`CRAM-MD5 DIGEST-MD5 LOGIN PLAIN')dnl
define(`CYRUS_MAILER_FLAGS', `SA5 at w|')dnl
define(`CYRUS_BB_MAILER_FLAGS', `S')dnl
define(`confLOCAL_MAILER', `cyrus')dnl
define(`CYRUS_MAILER_PATH',`/usr/local/cyrus/bin/deliver')dnl
define(`CERT_DIR', `MAIL_SETTINGS_DIR`'certs')dnl
define(`confCACERT_PATH', `/etc/mail/certs/netbase')dnl
define(`confCACERT', `CERT_DIR/netbase/CAcert.pem')dnl
define(`confSERVER_CERT', `CERT_DIR/netbase/cert.pem')dnl
define(`confSERVER_KEY', `CERT_DIR/netbase/key.pem')dnl
define(`confCLIENT_CERT', `CERT_DIR/netbase/cert.pem')dnl
define(`confCLIENT_KEY', `CERT_DIR/netbase/key.pem')dnl
define(`confRUN_AS_USER',`root:mail')dnl
TRUST_AUTH_MECH(`LOGIN PLAIN')dnl
FEATURE(`domaintable')dnl
FEATURE(`genericstable')dnl
FEATURE(`mailertable')dnl
FEATURE(`redirect')dnl
FEATURE(`use_cw_file')dnl
FEATURE(`access_db')dnl
FEATURE(`blacklist_recipients')dnl
FEATURE(`virtusertable')dnl
FEATURE(`dnsbl')dnl
FEATURE(`delay_checks')dnl
FEATURE(`use_ct_file')dnl
MAILER(local)dnl
MAILER(`smtp')
MAILER(`cyrus')
LOCAL_RULE_0
R$=N                    $: $#local $: $1
R$=N < @ $=w . >        $: $#local $: $1
Rbb + $+ < @ $=w . >    $#cyrusbb $: $1


Any help would be appreciated!

Thx in advance,mic

-- 
Michael Dosser
http://org.netbase.org



From james at gilbertwalker.com  Mon Jun 25 19:45:31 2001
From: james at gilbertwalker.com (James Dinan)
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 10:45:31 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] HTML Header Issue
Message-ID: <002801c0fd9e$b5068f60$3202a8c0@station12>

I am running Mailman 2.0.1 on Redhat 6.2 and I am having difficulty with the Subscribe Results Page (/mailman/subscribe/listname).  More specifically, I have edited the HTML and whenever I view the page, mailman appears to be prepending the following to the source:

<HTML>
<HEAD>
</HEAD>
<BODY
<BODY bgcolor="#ffffff">

which I'm sure you can imagine is wreaking havoc on the rest of my HTML.  Has anyone else had this problem, or is this fixed in future releases?  Since I am not an admin on the server I am configuring it will be difficult (Redhat installs mailman in /var/mailman) to recompile mailman.

I have just checked http://mail.python.org/mailman/subscribe/mailman-users and you can see for yourself that this is also happening with the version of mailman that serves this list.

- jim dinan.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
James Dinan <james at gilbertwalker.com>
Gilbert Walker Group: Lenox, MA  U.S.A
Available:  http://www.gilbertwalker.com

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
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From jean-luc at villefavard.com  Mon Jun 25 16:52:10 2001
From: jean-luc at villefavard.com (Jean-Luc)
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 07:52:10 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] FW: Your message to Starsfrog awaits moderator approval
Message-ID: <LOBBJLPPOFGHDKPCNCKBEEAECIAA.jean-luc@villefavard.com>

Hi.
I don't know what to do anymore, I can't have an E-mail going out on the
mailing list without approval, see the E-mail you receive if you post on the
ML. Can somebody tell me why? The "Must posts be approved by an
administrator?" is checked NO. I don't understand anymore.
Please help.
JLC

-----Original Message-----
From: mailman at edgar.vosn.net [mailto:mailman at edgar.vosn.net]On Behalf Of
Starsfrog-admin at starsfrog.com
Sent: Monday, June 25, 2001 7:54 AM
To: jean-luc at villefavard.com
Subject: Your message to Starsfrog awaits moderator approval

Your mail to 'Starsfrog' with the subject

    un petit test

Is being held until the list moderator can review it for approval.

The reason it is being held:

    Message has implicit destination

Either the message will get posted to the list, or you will receive
notification of the moderator's decision.




From enriko.groen at netivity.nl  Mon Jun 25 17:22:07 2001
From: enriko.groen at netivity.nl (Enriko Groen)
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 17:22:07 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] FW: Your message to Starsfrog awaits moderato
	r approval
Message-ID: <510EAC2065C0D311929200A0247252622F7888@NETIVITY-FS>

Set "allow members to post" (or somthing alike) which is near the "must post
be apporved" option to YES.



> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jean-Luc [mailto:jean-luc at villefavard.com]
> Sent: Monday, June 25, 2001 16:52
> To: mailman-users at python.org
> Subject: [Mailman-Users] FW: Your message to Starsfrog awaits 
> moderator
> approval
> 
> 
> Hi.
> I don't know what to do anymore, I can't have an E-mail going 
> out on the
> mailing list without approval, see the E-mail you receive if 
> you post on the
> ML. Can somebody tell me why? The "Must posts be approved by an
> administrator?" is checked NO. I don't understand anymore.
> Please help.
> JLC
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: mailman at edgar.vosn.net 
[mailto:mailman at edgar.vosn.net]On Behalf Of
Starsfrog-admin at starsfrog.com
Sent: Monday, June 25, 2001 7:54 AM
To: jean-luc at villefavard.com
Subject: Your message to Starsfrog awaits moderator approval

Your mail to 'Starsfrog' with the subject

    un petit test

Is being held until the list moderator can review it for approval.

The reason it is being held:

    Message has implicit destination

Either the message will get posted to the list, or you will receive
notification of the moderator's decision.


------------------------------------------------------
Mailman-Users maillist  -  Mailman-Users at python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users



From mailman at vo.cnchost.com  Mon Jun 25 17:19:41 2001
From: mailman at vo.cnchost.com (JC Dill)
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 08:19:41 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Multiple identical copies (100s) ad
  nauseum being sent as daily digest
In-Reply-To: <4.2.2.20010624235356.00b6a100@pop3.norton.antivirus>
Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010625081002.031e2030@pop3.vo.cnchost.com>

On 11:55 PM 6/24/01, Dan and Robby Grether wrote:
 >Dear Mailman-Users,
 >
 >We are again having the problem of multiple (100s) of emails coming from
 >our mailing list. The regular emailings are working fine, but the vol 17
 >msg 4 of our daily digest is spewing out 100s of copies to those who were
 >subscribed to the daily digest. I have unsubscribe everyone who was
 >subscribed to the daily digest, but the copies keep coming. How can they be
 >stopped? How can this problem be prevented in the future.
 >
 >I would rather not shut down the whole list---again---to stop them.

This has been addressed here, in the archives, many times before.

The reason people who have been unsubscribed still keep receiving the 
messages (this is a BIG tip off that the problem is NOT your "mailing list 
software", BTW) is that Mailman is not the "thing" sending them.    This 
also means that shutting down the entire list will also not be successful 
in stopping the problem.  Mailman handed off the message correctly, once, 
to your MTA for delivery.  The problem is in the MTA.

The duplicate messages are being generated from your MTA (sendmail, qmail, 
etc.), which is broken, and believes for some reason, that the message it 
has already successfully sent hasn't really been successfully sent.  The 
MTA will keep on sending it until you clear the offending message from the 
MTA queue.

Similarly, the fix (to prevent this from happening in the future) will be 
found by changing something within your MTA, not Mailman (although, if 
there's HTML in the digest running your incoming email through demime 
before handing it to Mailman will help prevent a messed up digest with 
screwed up HTML from triggering the MTA's bug).  Fixes vary depending on 
the exact problem and the particular MTA.  Keep a copy of the message so 
you have it to show when asked, and then inquire on a list for your 
particular MTA.

jc  (posted and emailied)





From jean-luc at villefavard.com  Mon Jun 25 17:40:07 2001
From: jean-luc at villefavard.com (Jean-Luc)
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 08:40:07 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] FW: Your message to Starsfrog awaits moderator
 approval
In-Reply-To: <510EAC2065C0D311929200A0247252622F7888@NETIVITY-FS>
Message-ID: <LOBBJLPPOFGHDKPCNCKBEEAICIAA.jean-luc@villefavard.com>

This one? "Restrict posting privilege to list members? (member_posting_only)
".

-----Original Message-----
From: Enriko Groen [mailto:enriko.groen at netivity.nl]
Sent: Monday, June 25, 2001 8:22 AM
To: 'Jean-Luc'; mailman-users at python.org
Subject: RE: [Mailman-Users] FW: Your message to Starsfrog awaits moderator
approval

Set "allow members to post" (or somthing alike) which is near the "must post
be apporved" option to YES.



> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jean-Luc [mailto:jean-luc at villefavard.com]
> Sent: Monday, June 25, 2001 16:52
> To: mailman-users at python.org
> Subject: [Mailman-Users] FW: Your message to Starsfrog awaits
> moderator
> approval
>
>
> Hi.
> I don't know what to do anymore, I can't have an E-mail going
> out on the
> mailing list without approval, see the E-mail you receive if
> you post on the
> ML. Can somebody tell me why? The "Must posts be approved by an
> administrator?" is checked NO. I don't understand anymore.
> Please help.
> JLC
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: mailman at edgar.vosn.net
[mailto:mailman at edgar.vosn.net]On Behalf Of
Starsfrog-admin at starsfrog.com
Sent: Monday, June 25, 2001 7:54 AM
To: jean-luc at villefavard.com
Subject: Your message to Starsfrog awaits moderator approval

Your mail to 'Starsfrog' with the subject

    un petit test

Is being held until the list moderator can review it for approval.

The reason it is being held:

    Message has implicit destination

Either the message will get posted to the list, or you will receive
notification of the moderator's decision.


------------------------------------------------------
Mailman-Users maillist  -  Mailman-Users at python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users




From soros_gergo at yahoo.com  Mon Jun 25 18:13:48 2001
From: soros_gergo at yahoo.com (Gergo Soros)
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 18:13:48 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] FW: Your message to Starsfrog awaits moderator approval
References: <LOBBJLPPOFGHDKPCNCKBEEAECIAA.jean-luc@villefavard.com>
Message-ID: <01ec01c0fd91$d30ffee0$01000001@sgergo.hu>

From: "Jean-Luc" <jean-luc at villefavard.com>
...
> I can't have an E-mail going out on the
> mailing list without approval, see the E-mail you receive if you post on the
> ML. Can somebody tell me why?

...
> The reason it is being held:
>
>     Message has implicit destination
...


"Implicit destination" has been explained several times on this list, have you
tried searching the archives?

http://search.python.org/query.html?col=lists&ht=0&qp=&qt=%2B%22implicit+destination%22+%2Bmailman&qs=&qc=&pw=100%25&ws=0&qm=0&st=1&
nh=10&lk=1&rf=0&rq=0&si=1

Gergo




_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com




From dvschalk at ing.sun.ac.za  Mon Jun 25 22:53:06 2001
From: dvschalk at ing.sun.ac.za (Dirko van Schalkwyk)
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 22:53:06 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] qrunner -- problem with huge mail messages
Message-ID: <3B37A4B2.2D553CB9@ing.sun.ac.za>

Hi

I have the following situation : 

Mailman 2.0.5 
Python 2.0
MTA : postfix

I set Mailman up, created a test list and played with it
for a while.
Then I send it a big "whopper" 5MB e-mail. I watched the
logs and saw
postfix running the wrapper. The cron started qrunner and
all hell broke
lose (over dramatizing a bit). It started running at 100%
CPU, where it
stayed until I killed it. The message was queued in
$prefix/qfiles, it
and its little .db file. I had to remove those as well as
the locks in
$prefix/locks before I could successfully use the list
again.

So I thought, "well maybe the pipermail thingy can't
handle the huge
mime thingies I'm sending it". So I send a smaller
attachment <150kb.
Things went fine (except for the ugly html page:) ) Send
it a 1MB
attachment. qrunner started spinning it's wheels again.
Had to seek and
destroy again.

So I replaced pipermail with MHonArc (With
PUBLIC_EXTERNAL_ARCHIVER ,
PRIVATE_EXTERNAL_ARCHIVER , PUBLIC_ARCHIVE_URL in
mm_cfg.py and the
appropriate thingies in httpd.conf). Small messages
worked fine. Big 
whoppers = no joy i.e. still the same with big messages.
So at least it
is not the archiving bit that messes up.

So I upgraded my Python ;) Ermm, to version 2.0. Still
the same.

Has anyone had the same problem? Can anyone confirm this
as a bug by
sending a 2MB file to a 2.0.5 testlist? 

How do I do a trace in Python? (i.e. it is as familiar to
me as the
bacteria in my stomach (I runs on my machine and there
endeth the
relationship))

Any pointers? Anything? 


Greets

Dirko

Lab E352
E&E Engineering
Univ. of Stellenbosch
South Africa



From grace at mountainviewdata.com  Wed Jun 13 09:32:32 2001
From: grace at mountainviewdata.com (grace)
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 15:32:32 +0800 (HKT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] A question
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0106131531260.32273-100000@grace.cn.mvd>

Hi,
When I running my MTA (postfix) and web server(mailman) on different
machines.
How can I make sure the mailinglist is added to the postfix aliases
database.

Thanks,
grace






From blizzard at surfeu.fi  Wed Jun 13 10:33:39 2001
From: blizzard at surfeu.fi (Maxx)
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 11:33:39 +0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archive a message without send email
Message-ID: <3B272563.7BD711D5@surfeu.fi>

Hello MailMan users,

I'm a new user of MailMan, and I've to convert some old archives
for a different (customized) mailing list manager to a new
mailing list created with MailMan.
Now the problem is that the archive is about 3 MB and I wouldn't
like to send this as a message to all the subscribed users,
but I want to store into the archive.

I have admin privileges for the list.

How can I do it?
Please, reply also to my mail address, not only the list.

Thanks

Massimo Gais

blizzard at surfeu.fi



From klinch at mail.uark.edu  Wed Jun 13 17:06:44 2001
From: klinch at mail.uark.edu (K. Michele Linch)
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 10:06:44 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] need help!
Message-ID: <3B59EF74@WebMail.uark.edu>

Is there any way we can set the listserv up in a manner that would allow me to 
know who the person is who is signing up? I can't tell by E-mail address alone 
and this is causing us some problems.


     >===== Original Message From ati-admin at mail.k12.ar.us =====
     >Your authorization is required for a mailing list subscription request
     >approval:
     >
     > For: maya2blue at juno.com
     > List: ATI at list.k12.ar.us
     >
     >At your convenience, visit:
     >
     > http://list.k12.ar.us/mailman/admindb/ati
     >
     >to process the request.

     K. Michele Linch
     Arkansas Leadership Academy
     University of Arkansas
     Grad Ed 153
     Fayetteville, AR 72701
     (501)575-3030
     1-888-281-2602

     "What Difference Does It Make For Kids?"




                                        Click here to enter secure mode.




From Jim_Fannin at aotx.uscourts.gov  Wed Jun 13 22:12:26 2001
From: Jim_Fannin at aotx.uscourts.gov (Jim_Fannin at aotx.uscourts.gov)
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 15:12:26 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can You Delete A Message From an Archive?
Message-ID: <OFF411CD03.6AA53DBB-ON86256A6A.006ED16F@uscmail.dcn>

We have a unique circumstance in which a mail message was posted, approved 
and sent to a list which turned out to have erroneous information in it. 
Management would like to remove the message from the archive which is 
public. Anyone know how to do this without killing the archive?

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Jim Fannin
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From evittori at gi.cl  Wed Jun 13 23:16:28 2001
From: evittori at gi.cl (evittori)
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 17:16:28 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How do you do a list of lists
Message-ID: <3B27D82C.D04C822@gi.cl>

I'am using Mailman 2.3 over RedHat 6.2. All comed very fine until I
tried to do a list of lists. I want to do a new list with many others
lists. This lists are moderated and only the subscribers can post in. I
defined user's e-mail in "Privacy Options" field "Addresses of
members..." but Mailman continues request autorization for delivery
this.

Thanks in advance...

PD: Excuseme for my english, i'm learnnig...

Edson Vittoriano P.








From charlie at begeistert.org  Thu Jun 14 00:44:26 2001
From: charlie at begeistert.org (Charlie Clark)
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 00:44:26 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problems with mailman after sendmail upgrade
Message-ID: <000386a5f4dea1e3_mailit@mail.isis.de>

After an update to the most recent sendmail version, mailman receives but no 
longer distributes e-mail, it has run perfectly up until now.

This is an excerpt from the log:
Jun 14 00:26:48 mail sendmail[32528]: f5DMQmK32528:
from=<charlie at begeistert.org>, size=1268, class=0, nrcpts=1,
msgid=<000386a5b69256c0_mailit at mail.isis.de>, bodytype=8BITMIME, proto=SMTP,
daemon=MTA, relay=issv017
0.isis.de [195.158.131.222]
Jun 14 00:26:48 mail sendmail[32529]: f5DMQmK32528: alias
<begeistert-orga at begeistert.org> => "|/home/mailman/mail/wrapper post
begeistert-orga"
Jun 14 00:26:49 mail sendmail[32529]: f5DMQmK32528:
to="|/home/mailman/mail/wrapper post begeistert-orga",
ctladdr=<begeistert-orga at begeistert.org> (2/0), delay=00:00:01,
xdelay=00:00:01, mailer=prog, pri=30581, dsn
=2.0.0, stat=Sent

The environment is SuSE Linux with sendmail 8.11.4 and Python 1.5.2

I have checked the FAQ and searched the list but couldn't find anything to 
meet my description.

Help much appreciated.

Charlie Clark
-- 
Charlie Clark
Helmholtzstr. 20
D?sseldorf
D- 40215
Tel: +49-211-938-5360
http://www.begeistert.org




From marc_news at valinux.com  Thu Jun 14 06:36:27 2001
From: marc_news at valinux.com (Marc MERLIN)
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 21:36:27 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mass unsubscribe
In-Reply-To: <20010613104849.A1099@jakes.ensquared.com>; from jakes@leet.org on Wed, Jun 13, 2001 at 10:48:49AM +0200
References: <20010613104849.A1099@jakes.ensquared.com>
Message-ID: <20010613213627.A8140@magic.merlins.org>

On Wed, Jun 13, 2001 at 10:48:49AM +0200, David Jacobson wrote:
> Hey,
> 
> Is there a way to mass unsubscribe users? eg from the bounce log file?

~mailman/bin/remove_members

Marc
-- 
Microsoft is to operating systems & security ....
                                      .... what McDonalds is to gourmet cooking
  
Home page: http://marc.merlins.org/   |   Finger marc_f at merlins.org for PGP key



From scriptures at ifriendly.com  Thu Jun 14 18:15:26 2001
From: scriptures at ifriendly.com (scriptures)
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 12:15:26 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] ?????
Message-ID: <003901c0f4ed$54da6800$492c43d8@ifriendly.com>

To whomit may concern,

WHY is it taking this long to correct the problem with may MailMan 1.1
account?

God Bless,
Rosario Abate,
Scriptures(tm)

-----------------------Original Message------------------
Bug in Mailman version 1.1

We're sorry, we hit a bug!If you would like to help us identify the problem,
please email a copy of this page to the webmaster for this site with a
description of what happened. Thanks!

Traceback:


Traceback (innermost last):
  File "/home/mailman/scripts/driver", line 112, in run_main
    main()
  File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/admin.py", line 167, in main
    ChangeOptions(lst, category, cgi_data, doc)
  File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/admin.py", line 876, in ChangeOptions
    lst.SetUserOption(user, okey, 0)
  File "/home/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 217, in SetUserOption
    self.Save()
  File "/home/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 799, in Save
    self.CheckHTMLArchiveDir()
  File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/Archiver.py", line 274, in
CheckHTMLArchiveDir
    breaklink(pubdir)
  File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/Archiver.py", line 64, in breaklink
    reraise()
  File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/Archiver.py", line 60, in breaklink
    os.unlink(link)
OSError: [Errno 13] Permission denied:
'/home/mailman/archives/public/scriptures'





----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----

Environment variables:
Variable Value
DOCUMENT_ROOT  /usr/local/apache/htdocs
SERVER_ADDR  209.223.0.5
HTTP_ACCEPT_ENCODING  gzip, deflate
CONTENT_LENGTH  3002
CONTENT_TYPE  application/x-www-form-urlencoded
PATH_TRANSLATED  /usr/local/apache/htdocs/scriptures/members
HTTP_CONNECTION  Keep-Alive
SERVER_SOFTWARE  Apache/1.3.11 (Unix)
GATEWAY_INTERFACE  CGI/1.1
HTTP_COOKIE
scriptures:admin="(lp1\012S'216.67.44.136'\012p2\012aI992273494\012aI9922842
94\012aI1185953925\012a."
HTTP_ACCEPT_LANGUAGE  en-us
REMOTE_ADDR  216.67.44.136
SERVER_PORT  80
TZ  US/Central
HTTP_USER_AGENT  Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.5; Windows 98; Mozilla/4.0
(compatible; MSIE 5.0; Windows NT; ifriendly.com))
HTTP_ACCEPT  image/gif, image/x-xbitmap, image/jpeg, image/pjpeg, */*
REQUEST_URI  /mailman/admin/scriptures/members
HTTP_CACHE_CONTROL  no-cache
PATH  /usr/sbin:/usr/bin
QUERY_STRING
SERVER_PROTOCOL  HTTP/1.1
PATH_INFO  /scriptures/members
HTTP_HOST  mail.network.lifeline.net
REQUEST_METHOD  POST
SERVER_SIGNATURE  Apache/1.3.11 Server at mail.network.lifeline.net Port 80
SCRIPT_NAME  /mailman/admin
SERVER_ADMIN  root at mail.network.lifeline.net
SCRIPT_FILENAME  /opt/users/mailman/cgi-bin/admin
PYTHONPATH  /home/mailman
HTTP_REFERER
http://mail.network.lifeline.net/mailman/admin/scriptures/members
SERVER_NAME  mail.network.lifeline.net
REMOTE_PORT  1162







From claw at 2wire.com  Thu Jun 14 21:32:49 2001
From: claw at 2wire.com (J C Lawrence)
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 12:32:49 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Allowing users to join without specifying pas swords 
In-Reply-To: Message from Joel Votaw <Joel.Votaw@bops.com> 
   of "Thu, 14 Jun 2001 13:46:57 CDT." <A148C710488FD411BC4000508BD922D82B36B5@aussrv001.austin.bops.com> 
References: <A148C710488FD411BC4000508BD922D82B36B5@aussrv001.austin.bops.com> 
Message-ID: <14307.992547169@2wire.com>

On Thu, 14 Jun 2001 13:46:57 -0500 
Joel Votaw <Joel.Votaw at bops.com> wrote:

> Hmmm, the README says that script only currently works with
> unsubscribe requests, but does not handle subscribe requests.  Is
> there any way to subscribe without supplying a password?

If you subscribe by mail as versus the web interface, the system
auto-generates and assigns a password.

> It looks like Mailman is designed from the ground up with the
> assumption that passwords will be used.  Is that correct?

Yes.

-- 
J C Lawrence                                       claw at kanga.nu
---------(*)                          http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/
The pressure to survive and rhetoric may make strange bedfellows



From claw at 2wire.com  Thu Jun 14 21:37:14 2001
From: claw at 2wire.com (J C Lawrence)
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 12:37:14 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] This is unixstuff warning 
In-Reply-To: Message from Chuq Von Rospach <chuqui@plaidworks.com> 
   of "Thu, 14 Jun 2001 11:04:00 PDT." <200106141802.f5EI2G402886@lists.apple.com> 
References: <200106141802.f5EI2G402886@lists.apple.com> 
Message-ID: <14354.992547434@2wire.com>

On Thu, 14 Jun 2001 11:04:00 -0700 
Chuq Von Rospach <chuqui at plaidworks.com> wrote:

> and passwords on unsubs are silly (sorry, Barry). Users who want
> to unsubscribe want off. they don't want to play games, they just
> want to leave. I have, in the last decade, seen ONE instance of
> forged unsubs on my mail lists, and that was a guy who was trying
> to make a point and so unsubsribed me from my own lists. Let's
> just say he didn't appreciate the response.

My stats are a little higher, and specific to political/chat lists
where egos and tempers tended to run high.  On three occasions we
had unsub wars rather than "admit defeat" in an argument.  As the
list announced unsubs to the list (but not subs) the apparent intent
was to create the impression that the other person had left rather
than lose the point.

<<glazed look>>

-- 
J C Lawrence                                       claw at kanga.nu
---------(*)                          http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/
The pressure to survive and rhetoric may make strange bedfellows



From amyc at libraryofmichigan.org  Thu Jun 14 21:48:48 2001
From: amyc at libraryofmichigan.org (Amy Briggs)
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 15:48:48 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archives not wrapping
Message-ID: <000a01c0f50b$085fb7f0$96806dc6@thalia4>

I've got mailman 2.05 up and running with a couple of lists on it.  Everything seems to be working fine but when you view a message in the archives, it does not wrap.

I checked the faq and browsed some of the archives but didn't see anything on this. 

Any ideas?

Thanks,

Amy
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From dagilbert at west.raytheon.com  Thu Jun 14 22:41:56 2001
From: dagilbert at west.raytheon.com (David A Gilbert)
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 13:41:56 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archive Threading Problem
Message-ID: <OF92523336.D11B0EF0-ON88256A6B.007085F7@rsc.raytheon.com>

Has anyone else had a problem with the archives not showing the "RE:" in
the list of messages? Am using Mailman2.04 and Postfix.  I found another
message regarding this problem in the archives which is shown below. Any
suggestions appreciated.  Please reply to me directly. Thank you.

David Gilbert
dagilbert at west.raytheon.com

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Travis Llewellyn travisll at comfedcu.org
Wed, 7 Feb 2001 15:44:33 -0600

     Previous message: [Mailman-Users] Digest questions...
     Next message: [Mailman-Users] Translations
     Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ]



I am having a problem with a list I have setup.
This is the only list on this server and the first time I have installed v2
of mailman.

I have reinstall and recompiled mailman so many times now that I think I
could do it from memory.

So here is my problem
None of my messages in the archives are showing up threaded. They all show
up a new messages.  Is there something that I have missed?


All the messages I send are getting to the archives OK. They all show up and
I can click on them and read them.

What it is doing is not threading them in the archives.

If I send a message subject test to the list it goes to the list members and
the archive ok.

When I receive the message in my inbox I click on reply to all. This sends a
message to the user and back to the list.

Both messages show up in the archive but they both show up as Test as the
subject as two distinct threads.

It looks Like this
eg...

[LFD-List]Test
[LFD-List]Test

When it should look like this

[LFD-List]Test
..Re:[LFD-List]Test

Does that make it a little clearer.

Thank you again for you assistance.

Travis





From wwieseler at macromedia.com  Fri Jun 15 18:01:00 2001
From: wwieseler at macromedia.com (Wayne Wieseler)
Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 09:01:00 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] I am receiving this error message.
Message-ID: <E97DAEEFD08EA744B0624B6DD315E6A7043B0D55@ex-600town-01.macromedia.com>

I am receiving this error message for any of the distribution lists that I have tried to join.

Bug in Mailman version 1.1
We're sorry, we hit a bug!
If you would like to help us identify the problem, please email a copy of this page to the webmaster for this site with a description of what happened. Thanks! 
Traceback:

Traceback (innermost last):
  File "/home/mailman/scripts/driver", line 112, in run_main
    main()
  File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/subscribe.py", line 161, in main
    list.AddMember(email, pw, digest, remote)
  File "/home/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 893, in AddMember
    cookie = Pending().new(name, password, digest)
  File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Pending.py", line 67, in new
    db = self.__load()
  File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Pending.py", line 97, in __load
    return marshal.load(fp)
EOFError: EOF read where object expected



Environment variables:
Variable	Value	
DOCUMENT_ROOT 	/usr/local/apache/htdocs 	
HTTP_ACCEPT_ENCODING 	gzip, deflate 	
CONTENT_LENGTH 	90 	
CONTENT_TYPE 	application/x-www-form-urlencoded 	
PATH_TRANSLATED 	/usr/local/apache/htdocs/fl_spec 	
REMOTE_ADDR 	10.60.1.31 	
HTTP_COOKIE 	MM_cookie=10.60.1.31.1048799238504232 	
SERVER_PROTOCOL 	HTTP/1.1 	
HTTP_ACCEPT_LANGUAGE 	en-us 	
GATEWAY_INTERFACE 	CGI/1.1 	
SERVER_PORT 	80 	
TZ 	US/Pacific 	
HTTP_USER_AGENT 	Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.5; Windows 98) 	
QUERY_STRING 		
HTTP_ACCEPT 	image/gif, image/x-xbitmap, image/jpeg, image/pjpeg, application/vnd.ms-powerpoint, application/vnd.ms-excel, application/msword, application/pdf, */* 	
REQUEST_URI 	/mailman/subscribe/fl_spec 	
PATH 	/usr/sbin:/usr/bin 	
REMOTE_PORT 	1063 	
SCRIPT_FILENAME 	/home/mailman/cgi-bin/subscribe 	
PATH_INFO 	/fl_spec 	
HTTP_HOST 	lists.macromedia.com 	
REQUEST_METHOD 	POST 	
SERVER_SIGNATURE 	Apache/1.3.6 Server at lists.macromedia.com Port 80	
SCRIPT_NAME 	/mailman/subscribe 	
SERVER_ADMIN 	mailman at macromedia.com 	
SERVER_SOFTWARE 	Apache/1.3.6 (Unix) 	
PYTHONPATH 	/home/mailman 	
HTTP_REFERER 	http://lists.macromedia.com/mailman/listinfo/fl_spec 	
SERVER_NAME 	lists.macromedia.com 	
HTTP_CONNECTION 	Keep-Alive 	




Thank you,

Wayne Wieseler

Office: 415.832.7512
Home: 415.566.5651
Mobile: 415.806.5651

wwiesele at macromedia.com


 <<Wayne Wieseler.vcf>> 
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From padhp at hotmail.com  Fri Jun 15 18:02:11 2001
From: padhp at hotmail.com (PAd [Pure As Diamond])
Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 12:02:11 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Password
Message-ID: <F1093DjFbUcOV1EetVo0000ad74@hotmail.com>

Hi,
  I digged through all mailman archives and i was not able to find how to 
subscribe and un-subscribe without password. Is there a way to do it?
  We have home grown list server (Written Perl). On one list we have 95,000 
e-mails, i am trying port all these e-mails to MAILMAN. What is the limit of 
number of emails per lists?


Help please....

Thanks
_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com




From WendyW2 at aol.com  Sat Jun 16 20:45:51 2001
From: WendyW2 at aol.com (WendyW2 at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2001 14:45:51 EDT
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Edit Archive
Message-ID: <cb.1251496a.285d035f@aol.com>

Can I edit the archive for a Mailman mailing list?  I was trying to test the 
system, and posted a message, but  now I would like to remove it, but I don't 
know where to go.  It would be helpful if you offered that option in your 
admin interface.

Thanks-
Wendy Wulff
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From lukasz at webexpress.pl  Sun Jun 17 00:53:06 2001
From: lukasz at webexpress.pl (Lukasz Gruszczynski)
Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2001 00:53:06 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] help plisss
Message-ID: <009f01c0f6b7$1f6d9fe0$03b419d5@quatro.cx>

helou
i have a small problem witch mailman config

i get allways this msg:

<lista-request at quatro.cx>: Command died with status 2:
    "/home/mailman/mail/wrapper mailcmd lista". Command output: Failure to
exec
    script. WANTED gid 555, GOT gid 99.  (Reconfigure to take 99?)

after instal with
./configure --with-mail-gid=555

what can i do?

Best Re.
M




From karl at kdawebservices.com  Mon Jun 18 01:48:23 2001
From: karl at kdawebservices.com (Karl Austin)
Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 00:48:23 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Strange Subscription Problem
Message-ID: <LPBBKIIPKGFCAHFBMKEBKEBHDPAA.karl@kdawebservices.com>

Hi,

We are experiencing a strange problem with some of the mailing lists that we
host and seen as I couldn't find an easy way to search your archives I
thought I would email.

The error occurs when someone tries to subscribe to a list, once they have
subscribed they get the confirmation email back, then when they reply to it
they receive this response:

This is an automated response.
There were problems with the email commands you sent to Mailman via the
administrative address <LISTNAME-request at domain.com>.
To obtain instructions on valid Mailman email commands, send email to
<LISTNAME-request at domain.com> with the word "help" in the subject line or in
the body of the message.
If you want to reach the human being that manages this mailing list, please
send your message to <LISTNAME-request at domain.com>.
The following is a detailed description of the problems.

***** confirm 680494
>>>>> Invalid confirmation number!
>>>>> Note that confirmation numbers expire 3 days after initial request.
>>>>> Please check date and number and try again, from the start if
necessary.

This happens before 3 days have elapsed, it happens before 3 minutes have
even elapsed between the request and the confirmation.

I would be very grateful if you could shed some light on this problem.

Thank you,

Karl Austin
KDA Web Services Ltd.
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From scriptures at ifriendly.com  Mon Jun 18 13:03:28 2001
From: scriptures at ifriendly.com (scriptures)
Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 07:03:28 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Up and running
Message-ID: <003801c0f7e6$4fe01c40$152c43d8@ifriendly.com>

To whomj it may concern

Thank you for reparing the MailMan 1.1. It is up and running.

God Bless,

Rosario Abate CEO
Scriptures(tm)




From artsnews at fredsternfeld.com  Tue Jun 19 04:46:26 2001
From: artsnews at fredsternfeld.com (Performing Arts News)
Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 22:46:26 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] System Jams after I send out a message
Message-ID: <JKEPJHPLMNIINLIOOMDJMEKOCAAA.artsnews@fredsternfeld.com>

I rolled my system our for the first time this morning and I am having
problems. The system jams up. I can't access the "administer" area; my
mailing list people can't access their "options" page and people can't
subscribe. It appears that his happens a few minutes after I forward a
message and then it stays bad for three or four hours and then mysteriously
clears up until the next time I send a message out. I use mailman through
Hostway.com and I have been having trouble getting them to respond to me
with an answer.




From dwarf at xplato.net  Tue Jun 19 13:29:35 2001
From: dwarf at xplato.net (Black Dwarf)
Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 13:29:35 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] A short question
Message-ID: <200106191329350242.002A5F50@mail.xplato.net>

Hi there, I was wondering whether you can help me with a simple problem. I
am using your Mailman list manager to provide my site with a mailing list.
Some time ago I came upon the idea to make a script to archive the messages
that were sent to the list. After doing some research I stumbled upon the
pipermail script you provide with Mailman. However, it did't do exactly
what I wanted (I have some weird stuff I have to do with the message).

I have some passing familiarity with Python, but not enough to make
pipermail work. So the question is simple: what mechanism does Mailman use
to "give" message(s) to pipermail?? Does it pipe them through STDIN or by
some other means?? 

I would be very grateful if you could help me on this, 'cause I'm buffled.
Guess its time to start learning Python... :))

Black Dwarf




From scriptures at ifriendly.com  Tue Jun 19 15:33:06 2001
From: scriptures at ifriendly.com (scriptures)
Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 09:33:06 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Stilll having problems!!!
Message-ID: <002a01c0f8c4$6262e260$cd2c43d8@ifriendly.com>

Technical Support,

I spoke to soon. I can add and delete names. However, when I try and send a
letter to my members it seems to go nowhere. Before the problem, it was
going to Pending Administion Requests, now there is nothing there when I
send a letter to the address below through ifriendly.com.

scriptures at mail.network.lifeline.net

God Bless,

Rosario Abate,
Scriptures(tm)

Phone: (216) 251-6889




From laubster at laubster.org  Tue Jun 19 20:05:33 2001
From: laubster at laubster.org (J.D. Laub)
Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 12:05:33 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] user with bogus address
Message-ID: <3B2F946D.EF4E6CDB@laubster.org>

Sorry if this has been asked before, but I couldn't find it in the FAQ
or the list manager's documentation, and the mailman-users archives
aren't searchable.

I'm a list admin using 2.0beta6.  While making various attempts at
working
around the lack of a user name attached to an email address, on the
Member
Management page I subscribed
"foo at laubster.org (foo bar)" - INCLUDING the doublequotes.  The parser
seems to have broken on whitespace, and it actually subscribed
"foo at laubster.org - note the leading doublequote.

Now when I fire up the Membership list section, "foo at laubster.org shows
up with only the digest box checked, and when I hit "submit changes"
(even without making any), the page re-draws with an 'Error
Unsubscribing: foo at laubster.org' message at the top (note the missing
doublequote on the address).  I can click on that user & it brings me to
that user's Mailman options page, but when I try to have the password
mailed, the page redraws with nothing but 'Error Invalid options to CGI
script'.

I'd like to avoid bugging my site admin if at all possible.  He's
hosting my list for free, and I don't want to wear out my welcome.  If I
do have to pester him, the more explicit the instructions, the better.

And addressing my original problem: if anybody knows a backdoor way to
get a name attached to a subscriber's email address, please let me
know.  Some of my subscribers' addresses are pretty obscure.  I've
noticed this feature is on the Wishlist, but was trying to find a
workaround.



From SNguyen at PDIT.com  Wed Jun 20 04:36:20 2001
From: SNguyen at PDIT.com (Steven Nguyen)
Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 19:36:20 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] spam filter?
Message-ID: <679EBC1D3F201B449DCA00D50DEC7BE101B4C2@Monster.i.pdit.com>

Hi,

I just want to say I love your Mailman program ever since I tested it.  Just
one thing though, I notice you said it does integrated spam filters...  how
do you enable this feature?  Is it on by default?   Also I had created
several list for my known address such as postmaster at mydomain and
webmaster at mydomain to trap spam mail.  It caught tons of them. It already
gave me enough clue on whether or not I should read it just by the topic and
from address, but it's just a pain to go through 100+ trapped junk emails
(waiting for me to approve posting) and click discard one by one .  Can you
include a button on your next version or whenever to have Discard All
button?  Because what I did was I notice you have "Defer" by default...so I
skimmed through for the one I approve of ...then update changes...then go
back and click Discard one by one...which took a long while.  And also it
would be nice to have a button (Spam-listed) that will allow me to add that
piece of email address that I discard to a "bad email list of addresses" so
that should it recieve it again in the future, it can just do auto-discard
for me.  I think if you have this feature...it would knock the boots out of
all other competing listserv programs.  Thanks.

Steve N
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From cyril.ballesta at vz.cit.alcatel.fr  Thu Jun 21 14:22:27 2001
From: cyril.ballesta at vz.cit.alcatel.fr (Cyril Ballesta)
Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 14:22:27 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Pb when post a msg to all the list
Message-ID: <3B31E703.C4F4EB90@vz.cit.alcatel.fr>

	hello, when i post a message to all the list with test at localhost.fr the
members never receive the message but the email admin have got it. What
the matter please????
	For information i use Apache, Exim on RedHat 7.0.
				Thank You    
                                                  Cyril Ballesta



From daniele at callimaco.com  Thu Jun 21 16:44:11 2001
From: daniele at callimaco.com (Daniele)
Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 16:44:11 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Why?
Message-ID: <004a01c0fa60$a2ce3000$2900a8c0@sam>

Why that?
Tanx, Daniele.



This message was created automatically by mail delivery software (Exim).

A message that you sent could not be delivered to one or more of its
recipients. This is a permanent error. The following address(es) failed:

  pipe to |/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/mail/wrapper mailcmd latoscanaperlulivo_callimaco.com
    generated by Latoscanaperlulivo-request at callimaco.com
    Child process of virtual_address_pipe transport returned 2 from command:
    /usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/mail/wrapper

The following text was generated during the delivery attempt:

------ |/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/mail/wrapper mailcmd latoscanaperlulivo_callimaco.com ------

Failure to exec script. WANTED gid 12, GOT gid 99.  (Reconfigure to take 99?)

------ This is a copy of the message, including all the headers. ------

Return-path: <biasci at rcnet.net>
Received: from smtp1.libero.it ([193.70.192.51])
by decimal.freeporter.com with esmtp (Exim 3.20 #1)
id 15ClQL-0004Ie-00
for Latoscanaperlulivo-request at callimaco.com; Wed, 20 Jun 2001 13:05:49 -0400
Received: from sam (151.14.164.125) by smtp1.libero.it (5.5.025)
        id 3AE980E700C5DCD0 for Latoscanaperlulivo-request at callimaco.com; Wed, 20 Jun 2001 19:05:48 +0200
Message-ID: <00c001c0f9ab$3fc569c0$0100a8c0 at sam>
From: "Daniele Biasci" <biasci at rcnet.net>
To: <Latoscanaperlulivo-request at callimaco.com>
References: <E15ClO8-0004Dw-00 at decimal.freeporter.com>
Subject: R: Latoscanaperlulivo -- confirmation of subscription -- request 866825
Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 19:05:46 +0200
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200


----- Original Message -----
From: <Latoscanaperlulivo-request at callimaco.com>
To: <biasci at rcnet.net>
Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2001 7:03 PM
Subject: Latoscanaperlulivo -- confirmation of subscription -- request
866825


> Latoscanaperlulivo -- confirmation of subscription -- request 866825
>
> We have received a request from 151.14.164.125 for subscription of
> your email address, <biasci at rcnet.net>, to the
> Latoscanaperlulivo at callimaco.com mailing list.  To confirm the
> request, please send a message to
> Latoscanaperlulivo-request at callimaco.com, and either:
>
> - maintain the subject line as is (the reply's additional "Re:" is
> ok),
>
> - or include the following line - and only the following line - in the
> message body:
>
> confirm 866825
>
> (Simply sending a 'reply' to this message should work from most email
> interfaces, since that usually leaves the subject line in the right
> form.)
>
> If you do not wish to subscribe to this list, please simply disregard
> this message.  Send questions to
> Latoscanaperlulivo-admin at callimaco.com.
>


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From donal.hunt at dcu.ie  Thu Jun 21 18:21:03 2001
From: donal.hunt at dcu.ie (Donal Hunt)
Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 17:21:03 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Discard non-member postings automatically?
Message-ID: <3B321EEF.8BBF6A71@dcu.ie>

I think JB is looking for a way to get rid of pending admin requests for
held postings.  I posted a python script to the list at the end of April
(around then i think!) that did just that.

Have a look through the archives (I think they are searchable now) for
"clear_requests" or something similar, or drop me a mail and i'll dig it
out.

Regards

Donal


Amanda wrote:

> JB:
> Go to your admin page and set it to allow posting from members only. :-)
> 
> =)
> Amanda

--------------------------------------------------------
J B Bell wrote:

> I recently converted a list to Mailman.  Unfortunately, it's a huge spam
> target, and I get many messages a day from non-members.  Slogging through
> and discarding them all is very annoying.  Is there any way to set a policy
> of discarding non-member postings outright?
>
> --JB
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users maillist  -  Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users



From cal at webmd.net  Thu Jun 21 18:29:09 2001
From: cal at webmd.net (Cal Evans)
Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 11:29:09 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Discard non-member postings automatically?
References: <20010621063549.A43680@eschatek.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20010621121957.02dd3d10@mail.taco.com>
Message-ID: <009701c0fa6f$4c74f0e0$a828a8c0@corp.envoy.com>

Turn off Moderator Must Approve, Turn On members Only?

Cal
*
* Cal Evans
* Senior Internet Dreamer
* http://www.calevans.com
*
----- Original Message -----
From: "Phydeaux" <reb at taco.com>
To: "Amanda" <arandall at auntminnie.com>; "J B Bell" <cipher at eschatek.com>
Cc: <mailman-users at python.org>
Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2001 11:22 AM
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Discard non-member postings automatically?


> At 08:55 AM 6/21/2001 -0700, Amanda wrote:
> >Go to your admin page and set it to allow posting from members only. :-)
> >
> >J B Bell wrote:
> >
> > > I recently converted a list to Mailman.  Unfortunately, it's a huge
spam
> > > target, and I get many messages a day from non-members.  Slogging
through
> > > and discarding them all is very annoying.  Is there any way to set a
policy
> > > of discarding non-member postings outright?
>
> I'm sorry -- that's not what he wants.  When you allow posting from
members
> only, posts that do not meet the test are queued for the administrator.
The
> requested feature (I do not believe this is currently available -- I'd
like it
> too) is to auto-reject this kind of message, perhaps with a customizable
> canned response, so the administrator does not have to deal with it.
>
> reb
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users maillist  -  Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
>




From Dezo at nib.si  Thu Jun 21 20:43:58 2001
From: Dezo at nib.si (Damir Dezeljin)
Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 20:43:58 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] RH-7.1 mailman instalation problem
Message-ID: <002301c0fa82$22571a00$7a3d02c1@win2k>

Dear all,

I have a RedHat-7.1 box with postfix. I tried to set up mailman
(mailman-2.0.1-2.rpm) ... I installed it with rpm -Uvh mailman-2.0.1-2.rpm,
than folow the instructions in /usr/share/doc/mailman-2.0.1/INSTALL . When I
run bin/check_perms I got:
Traceback (innermost last):
  File "bin/check_perms", line 50, in ?
    MAILMAN_GRPNAME = grp.getgrgid(MAILMAN_GID)[0]
TypeError: illegal argument type for built-in operation

I ignore the error and continue the setup ... I add a list with bin/newlist
and I try to subscribe to it trought web ... I got an E-Mail and I replay to
it just how it wants. When I do this I got an e-mail with error:
<dezo-request at pc.mojadomena.si>: Command died with status 2:
    "/var/mailman/mail/wrapper mailcmd dezo". Command output: Failure to
exec
    script. WANTED gid 12, GOT gid 99.  (Reconfigure to take 99?)

I checked /var/log/maillog:
Jun 21 17:31:24 pc postfix/local[2504]: 2721FEB67:
to=<dezo-request at pc.mojadomena.si>, relay=local, delay=0, status=bounced
(Command died with status 2: "/var/mailman/mail/wrapper mailcmd dezo".
Command output: Failure to exec script. WANTED gid 12, GOT gid 99.
(Reconfigure to take 99?) )


Can someone help me to solve the problem or point me on some HOWTO or doc
where can I find how to install an mailman rpm ???

Regards,
Damir Dezeljin
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From Colm.Smyth at Sun.COM  Thu Jun 21 23:39:58 2001
From: Colm.Smyth at Sun.COM (Colm Smyth)
Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 22:39:58 +0100 (BST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Request: support for attachment file extensions
Message-ID: <200106212139.WAA21372@ireserver.Ireland.Sun.COM>

Hi!

I find mailman an astonishingly useful tool on the mail.gnome.org
web-site, but there is one feature that I really miss - attachments
show the file-name as a URL within the mail message, but they
are saved as bin<number>.bin files. If they were saved as
bin<number>.extension, they would be easier to open in a
browser.

This may already be fixed, but mail.gnome.org is simply out
of date; if so, my apologies and I'll pass my request onto
the gnome.org maintainers.

All the best,

Colm.




From pedro at chasqui.uclv.etecsa.cu  Fri Jun 22 04:56:40 2001
From: pedro at chasqui.uclv.etecsa.cu (pedro)
Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 22:56:40 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] list moderator wiht password
Message-ID: <003c01c0fac6$f61a9620$6e0914ac@chasqui.uclv.etecsa.cu>

Hi your mail list software are great , but a try to found a feature that permit moderate list readonly like a distribucion list that check the from of the sender and a password that permit only autorized user ditributed news .


thanks and sorry my english.
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From vizisz at freemail.hu  Fri Jun 22 15:19:29 2001
From: vizisz at freemail.hu (Vizi Szilard)
Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 15:19:29 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: Changing Welcome Message
Message-ID: <20010622151929.A7658@freemail.hu>

Hello,

> Specifically I want to remove the line that says "To post to this list, send
> your email to:  mailman-users at python.org" I don't want members to post, only
> the moderator.
 
[vizisz at tatooin vizisz]$ rgrep -r "To post to" /home/mailman/templates/
/home/mailman/templates/subscribeack.txt:To post to this list, send your email to:
/home/mailman/templates/subscribeack.txt.prev:To post to this list, send your email to:

You have to modify subscribeack.txt from the templates directory.

If you want to hide the posting address from the users, you have to
also modify the masthead.txt, listinfo.html from the templates dir.

Szilard Vizi
-------------
mailto:vizisz at freemail.hu             UIN:10676592



From pekkas at netcore.fi  Fri Jun 22 18:55:20 2001
From: pekkas at netcore.fi (Pekka Savola)
Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 19:55:20 +0300 (EEST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] subscribing without password, default password
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0106221955010.28791-100000@netcore.fi>

Hi,

Just installed Mailman for the first time, 2.0.5.

1)

The listinfo page requires subscribers hit in a password when joining.  I
feel this is counter-productive.

IMO, it would be better to _always_ generate passwords.  This way
they're truly random, aren't "valuable" and the user doesn't have to think
about it.

Consider: the user does _not_ want to know his password (I don't!).  If he
needs to unsubscribe or the like, he can just order the password mailed to
him, or get it from regular reminders.

 ==> The listinfo page should be revised a bit on the passwords

2)

When I subscribed to a list using a message
to "listname-request at domain.com", the password was set to "listname"
(noticed when ordered my password to be sent over).

 ==> Shouldn't default email password be randomized?

3)

Several Linux distributions compile mailman with non-fixed uid/gid,
preferring to use user/groupname, and leave the decision about uid/gid to
install phase.

This causes problems in Defaults.py MAILMAN_UID and MAILMAN_GID.

I have only seen a real problem with this in check_perms script, the code
of which isn't too robust:

---
try:
    MAILMAN_GRPNAME = grp.getgrgid(MAILMAN_GID)[0]
except KeyError:
    MAILMAN_GRPNAME = '<anon gid %d>' % MAILMAN_GID
try:
    MAILMAN_OWNER = pwd.getpwuid(MAILMAN_UID)[0]
except KeyError:
    MAILMAN_OWNER = 'uid %d' % MAILMAN_UID
---

So, GID and UID must be used, not the names.

 ==> would it make sense to be able to use symbolic names everywhere
(perhaps being able to override these in Default.py by MAILMAN_GRPNAME
etc.)?


(about 1) and 2))

Perhaps there are some conflicting goals here, the current method being
better for those who want to be better able to unsubscribe when they no
longer have access to the mailbox they want to unsubscribe from
mailing-lists.

Any thoughts, or is there something I've missed?

Please Cc:, not on the list.

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
Netcore Oy                   not those you stumble over and fall"
Systems. Networks. Security.  -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords





From mail at 2ninety.com  Sat Jun 23 17:43:40 2001
From: mail at 2ninety.com (2ninety Limited)
Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2001 16:43:40 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Email Subscription
Message-ID: <016801c0fbfb$81357060$7a6a68d5@default>

Hi,

How do users sign up to a mailing list by sending and email?
I've tried using 'Subscribe' in the subject line although it does not work


Thanks

Robert Kerry





From deirdre at deirdre.net  Sun Jun 24 11:09:34 2001
From: deirdre at deirdre.net (Deirdre Saoirse Moen)
Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2001 02:09:34 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Debian upgrade hell...
In-Reply-To: <E15E5jQ-00044B-00@mail.python.org>
References: <E15E5jQ-00044B-00@mail.python.org>
Message-ID: <a05100e0fb75b5c7f87de@[10.20.0.138]>

For reasons that have to do with grad school and having started my 
final project for The Class From Hell on another platform, I upgraded 
(hand-compiled) Python 2.1 on my debian system (the only weirdness is 
that I'm running sendmail rather than exim, but otherwise it's a 
pretty stock lightweight debian build).

Oh, and I'm running the testing branch of Debian.

Naturally, cron hated the fact that Python had been upgraded and sent 
me lots of hate mail, for which I created a user and sent it there.

Today that caught up with me, the unhappy cron kvetching had taken my 
load average to 27, at which point sendmail spat a hairball. Note 
that in three years of running the same setup (but until recently on 
SuSE), it's never been that unhappy. Then again, I've never ignored 
it for a week while I was working on finals either.

I'd like to run mailman 2.0, but a) I can't find a debian package 
that wants Python 2.x; b) the ones I can find are for different build 
setups than I have.

Thus, what I'd *really* like is the One True configure incantation 
for debian because I've been working on getting this system unbroken 
(without breaking my as-yet-ungraded grad school final project of 
course) in ten hours with extensive searching of archives and web.

Right now, I have the 2.0.5 tarball from Debian and have patched it. 
However, there's no real help there about what to pass to configure 
and all my guesses thus far have NOT resulted in everything going in 
the happy fun places they need to. 



From RLloyd1 at aol.com  Sun Jun 24 15:54:19 2001
From: RLloyd1 at aol.com (RLloyd1 at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2001 09:54:19 EDT
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archive Deletion
Message-ID: <fd.82bedb2.28674b0b@aol.com>

How can the list administrator delete some or all messages from the Archives?
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From deirdre at deirdre.net  Mon Jun 25 06:39:10 2001
From: deirdre at deirdre.net (Deirdre Saoirse Moen)
Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2001 21:39:10 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Debian upgrade hell...
Message-ID: <a05100e10b75c70c26117@[10.20.0.138]>

[this didn't make it through when I sent it yesterday]

For reasons that have to do with grad school and having started my 
final project for The Class From Hell on another platform, I upgraded 
(hand-compiled) Python 2.1 on my debian system (the only weirdness is 
that I'm running sendmail rather than exim, but otherwise it's a 
pretty stock lightweight debian build).

Oh, and I'm running the testing branch of Debian.

Naturally, cron hated the fact that Python had been upgraded and sent 
me lots of hate mail, for which I created a user and sent it there.

Today that caught up with me, the unhappy cron kvetching had taken my 
load average to 27, at which point sendmail spat a hairball. Note 
that in three years of running the same setup (but until recently on 
SuSE), it's never been that unhappy. Then again, I've never ignored 
it for a week while I was working on finals either.

I'd like to run mailman 2.0, but a) I can't find a debian package 
that wants Python 2.x; b) the ones I can find are for different build 
setups than I have.

Thus, what I'd *really* like is the One True configure incantation 
for debian because I've been working on getting this system unbroken 
(without breaking my as-yet-ungraded grad school final project of 
course) in ten hours with extensive searching of archives and web.

Right now, I have the 2.0.5 tarball from Debian and have patched it. 
However, there's no real help there about what to pass to configure 
and all my guesses thus far have NOT resulted in everything going in 
the happy fun places they need to. 



From ge204 at eng.cam.ac.uk  Mon Jun 25 20:02:52 2001
From: ge204 at eng.cam.ac.uk (Gunnar Evermann)
Date: 25 Jun 2001 19:02:52 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mail loops: list-request and vacation messages
In-Reply-To: <LOBBJLPPOFGHDKPCNCKBEEAICIAA.jean-luc@villefavard.com>
Message-ID: <mqq1yo8mo8j.fsf@eng.cam.ac.uk>

I am running Mailman 2.0 and today had a slight problem with the
installation

AFAICT what happened is:

Some guy send a request to list-request and left for holidays
activating some stupid vacation feature in his Mailer (Outlook). When
Mailman replied to the request message Outlook sent back not one but
two vacation messages [1] back to list-request. Mailman now couldn't
understand these messages and replied with one helpful error message
to each. Outlook responded with 4 vacation messages...

This got out of hand fairly quickly.

It would be nice if Mailman was more resistant to these mail loops
[2]. Any suggestions how to configure/fix it to avoid such things from
happening again?

 Gunnar

 
Footnotes: 
[1]  utterly broken ones gratuitously encoded in base64, but that's
     not the point 
[2]  It would have been bad, even if Outlook had only send one reply
     per message, but the exponential growth made it more
     "interesting".



From barry at digicool.com  Mon Jun 25 23:55:04 2001
From: barry at digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 17:55:04 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Saving names of list members 
References: <Pine.OSF.4.21.0106241501300.28529-100000@sansana.bgu.ac.il>
	<16301.993407775@kanga.nu>
Message-ID: <15159.45880.749844.615582@anthem.wooz.org>

>>>>> "JCL" == J C Lawrence <claw at kanga.nu> writes:

    >> I am going to start a Mailman-based list. The tool looks very
    >> convenient, but I am stuck with the following problem: the list
    >> owner-to-be insists on knowing names of the list members in
    >> addition to their email addresses.

    JCL> This is not currently possible with Mailman.

It is going to be possible in MM2.1 though.  I already have some
not-checked-in patches to support this, but I have some other things
backed up that need to get checked in first.

-Barry



From barry at digicool.com  Mon Jun 25 23:57:35 2001
From: barry at digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 17:57:35 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and phone bills
References: <3B3656EF.40D0BEB0@pcraft.com>
	<200106242104.f5OL4lh31224@plaidworks.com>
Message-ID: <15159.46031.366256.561892@anthem.wooz.org>

>>>>> "CVR" == Chuq Von Rospach <chuqui at plaidworks.com> writes:

    CVR> I'm not list mom, but I play one on TV. Speaking for Barry, I
    CVR> can only say "let's cut this out and get back to talking
    CVR> about mailman"

Yes, please.  Thank you Chuq.

way-behind-in-my-mailman-users-folder-routine-ly y'rs,
-Barry



From chuqui at plaidworks.com  Tue Jun 26 00:14:19 2001
From: chuqui at plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach)
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 15:14:19 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mail loops: list-request and vacation messages
In-Reply-To: <mqq1yo8mo8j.fsf@eng.cam.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <200106252205.f5PM5vh24968@plaidworks.com>

On Monday, June 25, 2001, at 11:02 AM, Gunnar Evermann wrote:

> Some guy send a request to list-request and left for holidays
> activating some stupid vacation feature in his Mailer (Outlook). When
> Mailman replied to the request message Outlook sent back not one but
> two vacation messages [1] back to list-request.

> It would be nice if Mailman was more resistant to these mail loops
> [2].

Suggestions on how?

the mailbot that guy used was seriously broken and non-conforming. It 
ignores Precedence headers, which are there (in part) to tell mailbots 
NOT to mailbot a message in the first place, and it's not smart enough 
to not repeatedly mailbot a single address. Both of those are basic, 
trivial functionality ANY mailbot ought to have -- and many of them have 
had for 15 years or more. It's sad there are still people who think they 
can write softwrae that are so uninformed about stuff they're writing, 
but that's a different argument.

Did the guy who set up the mailbot give mailman any way of telling this 
was a mailbot, or a loop? Did they include any keywords, like "out of 
the office" or "vacation" or "I am an idiot who's mailbot is going to 
make you crazy now"?

Unnfortunately, there's a basic reality here -- no matter how smart you 
make mailman, one stupid mailbot can sidetrack everytihng you can do to 
stop it. Can Mailman get better? sure. what can't? But until people find 
ways to make it better, it's hard.

What did this mailbot do that an automated systems like Mailman 
recognize it?

These mailbot loops are the bane of administrators, especially since the 
worst ones are usually started on Friday afternoon before a 3 day 
weekend, because the worst of the vacation bots are set up at the last 
minute by someone primarily interested in LEAVING, not making the 
mailbot work, and otherwise aren't configured, tested or monitored -- 
and the admin is likely gone and doesn't know until he comes back after 
the weekend that the mailbot's been sending 2000 messages an hour. And 
the idiot who sets the mailbot up blames you, of course...

If you can find something the mailbot did that (a) would allow mailman 
to recognize it as such, and (b) wouldn't cause false positives by 
blocking legitimate messages, let us know. We'll look at improving 
mailman to trap it. But the blatting mailbot is the problem -- it's 
ignoring ALL of the things Mailman's done all along to tell the mailbot 
to leave it alone and not bother telling us about the vacation; worse; 
that vacation bot isn't smart enough to know it's already told us -- it 
must think we're really stupid to have to tell us repeatedly....


--
Chuq Von Rospach, Internet Gnome <http://www.chuqui.com>
[<chuqui at plaidworks.com> = <me at chuqui.com> = <chuq at apple.com>]
Yes, yes, I've finally finished my home page. Lucky you.

Some days you're the dog, some days you're the hydrant.




From barry at digicool.com  Tue Jun 26 00:49:31 2001
From: barry at digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 18:49:31 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] subscribing without password, default password
References: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0106221955010.28791-100000@netcore.fi>
Message-ID: <15159.49147.106504.912884@anthem.wooz.org>

>>>>> "PS" == Pekka Savola <pekkas at netcore.fi> writes:

    PS> The listinfo page requires subscribers hit in a password when
    PS> joining.  I feel this is counter-productive.

    PS> IMO, it would be better to _always_ generate passwords.  This
    PS> way they're truly random, aren't "valuable" and the user
    PS> doesn't have to think about it.

    PS> Consider: the user does _not_ want to know his password (I
    PS> don't!).  If he needs to unsubscribe or the like, he can just
    PS> order the password mailed to him, or get it from regular
    PS> reminders.

    PS>  ==> The listinfo page should be revised a bit on the
    PS> passwords

Some users want to supply their passwords so that if they are
subscribed to a dozen lists, they won't have to remember a dozen
passwords (or change them a dozen times).  MM2.1 makes this optional;
leave the fields blank when subscribing and it'll generate a random
password for you.

    PS> 2)

    PS> When I subscribed to a list using a message to
    PS> "listname-request at domain.com", the password was set to
    PS> "listname" (noticed when ordered my password to be sent over).

    PS>  ==> Shouldn't default email password be randomized?

Uh, yeah! :)  I've not seen this behavior.

    PS> 3)

    PS> Several Linux distributions compile mailman with non-fixed
    PS> uid/gid, preferring to use user/groupname, and leave the
    PS> decision about uid/gid to install phase.

    PS> This causes problems in Defaults.py MAILMAN_UID and
    PS> MAILMAN_GID.

    PS> I have only seen a real problem with this in check_perms
    PS> script, the code of which isn't too robust:

    | ---
    | try:
    |     MAILMAN_GRPNAME = grp.getgrgid(MAILMAN_GID)[0]
    | except KeyError:
    |     MAILMAN_GRPNAME = '<anon gid %d>' % MAILMAN_GID
    | try:
    |     MAILMAN_OWNER = pwd.getpwuid(MAILMAN_UID)[0]
    | except KeyError:
    |     MAILMAN_OWNER = 'uid %d' % MAILMAN_UID
    | ---

    PS> So, GID and UID must be used, not the names.

    PS>  ==> would it make sense to be able to use symbolic names
    PS> everywhere (perhaps being able to override these in Default.py
    PS> by MAILMAN_GRPNAME etc.)?

Probably so.  Patches are welcome. :)

    PS> (about 1) and 2))

    PS> Perhaps there are some conflicting goals here, the current
    PS> method being better for those who want to be better able to
    PS> unsubscribe when they no longer have access to the mailbox
    PS> they want to unsubscribe from mailing-lists.

    PS> Any thoughts, or is there something I've missed?

-Barry



From dagda at eircom.net  Tue Jun 26 01:21:05 2001
From: dagda at eircom.net (Karl Carlile)
Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 00:21:05 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Borland C++5
Message-ID: <001101c0fdcd$832d9720$8dfe869f@abc>

I downloaded a free copy of bcc55. But having great difficulty finding a way
of installing it. It seems more difficult than the usual cases.

Do you know what I must do to install it.
Karl




From arandall at auntminnie.com  Tue Jun 26 01:22:53 2001
From: arandall at auntminnie.com (Amanda)
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 16:22:53 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mail loops: list-request and vacation messages
References: <200106252205.f5PM5vh24968@plaidworks.com>
Message-ID: <3B37C7CD.7A25F380@auntminnie.com>

Chuq Von Rospach wrote:

> Did the guy who set up the mailbot give mailman any way of telling this
> was a mailbot, or a loop? Did they include any keywords, like "out of
> the office" or "vacation" or "I am an idiot who's mailbot is going to
> make you crazy now"?
> [snip]
> If you can find something the mailbot did that (a) would allow mailman
> to recognize it as such, and (b) wouldn't cause false positives by
> blocking legitimate messages, let us know. We'll look at improving
> mailman to trap it. But the blatting mailbot is the problem -- it's
> ignoring ALL of the things Mailman's done all along to tell the mailbot
> to leave it alone and not bother telling us about the vacation; worse;
> that vacation bot isn't smart enough to know it's already told us -- it
> must think we're really stupid to have to tell us repeatedly....

The problem with this is (and boy, howdy, lemme tell ya)... there's always
one turkey who has to do something weird with his vacation message. I now
have a filter that reads something like this: "If this text appears in the
subject or body of the message, send it to the trash mailbox: out of the
office; out of office; out of town; out-of-town; away from the office; away
from my office; away from my desk, away from my email; away from my mail;
unavailable to respond to email; unavailable to email; unable to receive
email; away from the hospital; out of the country; on sabbatical; attending
a seminar; automated response; automatic response; automated responder;
automatic responder; autoresponse; auto-response; auto-reply; automatic
reply; unattended mailbox..."

Yesterday one stupid user blew another hole in my filtering: Her away
message read "away fromthe office". As we send daily messages, and she's
going to be away fromthe office for more than a month, I went ahead and
added her typoed message to my filtering.

Today another one did it to me - his message was "Land ho! We're on an
island-hopping pleasure cruise until mid-July. Don't wait on the pier for
us!"

Filter that. <shaking head>

Forty thousand users who are too clever for their own damned good. There are

moments that I hate every single one of them, individually and with
heartfelt passion. This afternoon happens to be one of those moments.

=)
Amanda





Chuq Von Rospach wrote:

> On Monday, June 25, 2001, at 11:02 AM, Gunnar Evermann wrote:
>
> > Some guy send a request to list-request and left for holidays
> > activating some stupid vacation feature in his Mailer (Outlook). When
> > Mailman replied to the request message Outlook sent back not one but
> > two vacation messages [1] back to list-request.
>
> > It would be nice if Mailman was more resistant to these mail loops
> > [2].
>
> Suggestions on how?
>
> the mailbot that guy used was seriously broken and non-conforming. It
> ignores Precedence headers, which are there (in part) to tell mailbots
> NOT to mailbot a message in the first place, and it's not smart enough
> to not repeatedly mailbot a single address. Both of those are basic,
> trivial functionality ANY mailbot ought to have -- and many of them have
> had for 15 years or more. It's sad there are still people who think they
> can write softwrae that are so uninformed about stuff they're writing,
> but that's a different argument.
>
> Did the guy who set up the mailbot give mailman any way of telling this
> was a mailbot, or a loop? Did they include any keywords, like "out of
> the office" or "vacation" or "I am an idiot who's mailbot is going to
> make you crazy now"?
>
> Unnfortunately, there's a basic reality here -- no matter how smart you
> make mailman, one stupid mailbot can sidetrack everytihng you can do to
> stop it. Can Mailman get better? sure. what can't? But until people find
> ways to make it better, it's hard.
>
> What did this mailbot do that an automated systems like Mailman
> recognize it?
>
> These mailbot loops are the bane of administrators, especially since the
> worst ones are usually started on Friday afternoon before a 3 day
> weekend, because the worst of the vacation bots are set up at the last
> minute by someone primarily interested in LEAVING, not making the
> mailbot work, and otherwise aren't configured, tested or monitored --
> and the admin is likely gone and doesn't know until he comes back after
> the weekend that the mailbot's been sending 2000 messages an hour. And
> the idiot who sets the mailbot up blames you, of course...
>
> If you can find something the mailbot did that (a) would allow mailman
> to recognize it as such, and (b) wouldn't cause false positives by
> blocking legitimate messages, let us know. We'll look at improving
> mailman to trap it. But the blatting mailbot is the problem -- it's
> ignoring ALL of the things Mailman's done all along to tell the mailbot
> to leave it alone and not bother telling us about the vacation; worse;
> that vacation bot isn't smart enough to know it's already told us -- it
> must think we're really stupid to have to tell us repeatedly....
>
> --
> Chuq Von Rospach, Internet Gnome <http://www.chuqui.com>
> [<chuqui at plaidworks.com> = <me at chuqui.com> = <chuq at apple.com>]
> Yes, yes, I've finally finished my home page. Lucky you.
>
> Some days you're the dog, some days you're the hydrant.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users maillist  -  Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users




From chuqui at plaidworks.com  Tue Jun 26 01:37:51 2001
From: chuqui at plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach)
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 16:37:51 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mail loops: list-request and vacation messages
In-Reply-To: <3B37C7CD.7A25F380@auntminnie.com>
Message-ID: <200106252329.f5PNTTh26563@plaidworks.com>

On Monday, June 25, 2001, at 04:22 PM, Amanda wrote:


>  I now
> have a filter that reads something like this: "If this text appears in 
> the
> subject or body of the message, send it to the trash mailbox: out of the
> office; [..etc...]

And once you've done that, add in german, french, russian, spanish, 
portugese, japanese, chinese and the other languages people write these 
things in... I'm blessed with a hugely international audience on some of 
my lists. (My mother used to be an ob/gyn nurse in a county hospital. 
She could, as she used to joke, say "push" in 17 languages. I've come to 
understand that one very well....)

> Yesterday one stupid user blew another hole in my filtering: Her away
> message read "away fromthe office". As we send daily messages, and she's
> going to be away fromthe office for more than a month, I went ahead and
> added her typoed message to my filtering.

me, I just nuke their subscriptions. If you don't, they have no 
motivation to figure it out and fix it. Generally, the first time, they 
get unsubscribed. the second, they get banned.

> Filter that. <shaking head>

I have this mental image, which includes some very motivated finger 
gesturing. But that's probably not what you meant...


Chuq Von Rospach, Internet Gnome <http://www.chuqui.com>
[<chuqui at plaidworks.com> = <me at chuqui.com> = <chuq at apple.com>]
Yes, yes, I've finally finished my home page. Lucky you.

How about never?  Is never good for you?




From claw at kanga.nu  Tue Jun 26 01:30:14 2001
From: claw at kanga.nu (claw at kanga.nu)
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 16:30:14 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Password 
In-Reply-To: Message from "PAd [Pure As Diamond]" <padhp@hotmail.com> 
   of "Fri, 15 Jun 2001 12:02:11 EDT." <F1093DjFbUcOV1EetVo0000ad74@hotmail.com> 
References: <F1093DjFbUcOV1EetVo0000ad74@hotmail.com> 
Message-ID: <13050.993511814@2wire.com>

On Fri, 15 Jun 2001 12:02:11 -0400 
padhp  <PAd> wrote:

> I digged through all mailman archives and i was not able to find
> how to subscribe and un-subscribe without password. 
> Is there a way to do it?  

Currently not possible.  There are CGI hacks to do this -- see the
archives for any of several pointers.

> We have home grown list server (Written Perl). On one list we have
> 95,000 e-mails, i am trying port all these e-mails to
> MAILMAN. What is the limit of number of emails per lists?

Highly dependent on machine resources.  Given a fast box I've tested
up to small order millions.

-- 
J C Lawrence                                       claw at kanga.nu
---------(*)                          http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/
The pressure to survive and rhetoric may make strange bedfellows



From arandall at auntminnie.com  Tue Jun 26 01:53:11 2001
From: arandall at auntminnie.com (Amanda)
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 16:53:11 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mail loops: list-request and vacation messages
References: <200106252329.f5PNTTh26563@plaidworks.com>
Message-ID: <3B37CEE7.7BA1E52@auntminnie.com>

Chuq Von Rospach wrote:

> > Filter that. <shaking head>
>
> I have this mental image, which includes some very motivated finger
> gesturing. But that's probably not what you meant...

::snickering uncontrollably and wondering how she got caught::
Maaayybe.  Maybe not. I certainly had plenty of other rude things to say.

I may look like a prim and proper stick-in-the-mud webmaster, but in reality I
am a redheaded stubborn grumpy cubicle-farm-dwelling monster who only smiles
sweetly at those who show proper deference and awe and make offerings
appropriate to her goddesslike nature. "Filter that!" with certain colorful
hand gestures would not be so far out of the realm of possibilities...

[Wouldn't that be "Filter this"? Perhaps "I got yer filter right here,
mister!" Hmm...]

=)
Amanda





From jwblist at olympus.net  Tue Jun 26 02:19:17 2001
From: jwblist at olympus.net (John W Baxter)
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 17:19:17 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mail loops: list-request and vacation messages
In-Reply-To: <200106252329.f5PNTTh26563@plaidworks.com>
References: <200106252329.f5PNTTh26563@plaidworks.com>
Message-ID: <p05101001b75d8490bc14@[207.149.192.229]>

I often wonder why people who would *not* hang
   "Owner away--burgle here"
signs on their houses on these trips send out "burgle here" invitations in
email.

Ah, well.  I guess it's a sliding scale of some sort...I do hear "we're
away for the weekend" on more answering machines than I should (at least
until the burglar takes the answering machine).

  --John (who keeps forgetting that "burglar" is spelt without an e)

-- 
John Baxter   jwblist at olympus.net      Port Ludlow, WA, USA



From chuqui at plaidworks.com  Tue Jun 26 02:26:54 2001
From: chuqui at plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach)
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 17:26:54 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mail loops: list-request and vacation messages
In-Reply-To: <p05101001b75d8490bc14@[207.149.192.229]>
Message-ID: <200106260018.f5Q0IXh27428@plaidworks.com>

On Monday, June 25, 2001, at 05:19 PM, John W Baxter wrote:

> I often wonder why people who would *not* hang
>    "Owner away--burgle here"
> signs on their houses on these trips send out "burgle here"

One reason why I never use a vacation message. The other is, for better 
or worse, that I'm never more than a walk back to the hotel room away 
from a modem, and so I'm never away from e-mail even when I'm 
vacationing. The joys of being (a) irreplaceable, and (b) my own boss in 
my spare time.


--
Chuq Von Rospach, Internet Gnome <http://www.chuqui.com>
[<chuqui at plaidworks.com> = <me at chuqui.com> = <chuq at apple.com>]
Yes, yes, I've finally finished my home page. Lucky you.

It's a thankless job, but I've got a lot of
Karma to burn off.





From dvschalk at ing.sun.ac.za  Tue Jun 26 03:51:16 2001
From: dvschalk at ing.sun.ac.za (Dirko van Schalkwyk)
Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 03:51:16 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] help plisss
References: <009f01c0f6b7$1f6d9fe0$03b419d5@quatro.cx>
Message-ID: <3B37EA94.633DD4A2@ing.sun.ac.za>

Lukasz Gruszczynski wrote:
> 
Hi

> <lista-request at quatro.cx>: Command died with status 2:
>     "/home/mailman/mail/wrapper mailcmd lista". Command output: Failure to
> exec
>     script. WANTED gid 555, GOT gid 99.  (Reconfigure to take 99?)

GID (Group ID) 99 is usually for user nobody. This means your script
"wrapper" wanted to run with gid 555, but got run as 99 (user nobody)
(postfix for instance only run all piped commands as gid nobody).
Reinstall with  --with-mail-gid=99 or if you run  Exim MTA set the GID
with what the script should be run.
 
Also read http://www.list.org/install-config.html carefully.

Greets

Dirko



From dvschalk at ing.sun.ac.za  Tue Jun 26 04:03:56 2001
From: dvschalk at ing.sun.ac.za (Dirko van Schalkwyk)
Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 04:03:56 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Why?
References: <004a01c0fa60$a2ce3000$2900a8c0@sam>
Message-ID: <3B37ED8C.5E83827A@ing.sun.ac.za>

> Daniele wrote:
> 
> Why that?
> Tanx, Daniele.


GID (Group ID) 99 is usually for user nobody. This means
your script
"wrapper" wanted to run with gid 12, but got run as 99
(user nobody)
(postfix for instance only run all piped commands as gid
nobody).
Reinstall with  --with-mail-gid=99 or if you run  Exim
MTA set the GID
with what the script should be run.
 
Also read http://www.list.org/install-config.html
carefully.



From dvschalk at ing.sun.ac.za  Tue Jun 26 04:07:50 2001
From: dvschalk at ing.sun.ac.za (Dirko van Schalkwyk)
Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 04:07:50 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] RH-7.1 mailman instalation problem
References: <002301c0fa82$22571a00$7a3d02c1@win2k>
Message-ID: <3B37EE76.17432E42@ing.sun.ac.za>

>     "/var/mailman/mail/wrapper mailcmd dezo". Command output: Failure to
> exec
>     script. WANTED gid 12, GOT gid 99.  (Reconfigure to take 99?)
> 
> I checked /var/log/maillog:
> Jun 21 17:31:24 pc postfix/local[2504]: 2721FEB67:

GID (Group ID) 99 is usually for user nobody. This means
your script
"wrapper" wanted to run with gid 12, but got run as 99
(user nobody)
(postfix for instance only run all piped commands as gid
nobody).
Rather download the source package from

 http://www.list.org/download.html

and install.

Also read http://www.list.org/install-config.html

carefully.



From bob at nleaudio.com  Tue Jun 26 04:58:54 2001
From: bob at nleaudio.com (Bob Puff@NLE)
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 22:58:54 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] need help!
References: <E15EeL1-000747-00@mail.python.org>
Message-ID: <3B37FA6E.7CB776F5@nleaudio.com>

> Is there any way we can set the listserv up in a manner that would allow me to 
> know who the person is who is signing up? I can't tell by E-mail address alone 
> and this is causing us some problems.

http://nleaudio.com/bnotes/mailman.htm

Bob



From bob at nleaudio.com  Tue Jun 26 05:21:54 2001
From: bob at nleaudio.com (Bob Puff@NLE)
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 23:21:54 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mail loops: list-request and vacation messages
References: <E15EixO-00032F-00@mail.python.org>
Message-ID: <3B37FFD2.61885287@nleaudio.com>

> If you can find something the mailbot did that (a) would allow mailman 
> to recognize it as such, and (b) wouldn't cause false positives by 
> blocking legitimate messages, let us know. We'll look at improving 
> mailman to trap it. 

Relatively easy.  Set a limit on how many messages a user can post in say a 10 minute period.  Make it user editable.  If you get >8, you've got a loop!

You could make the period user-adjustable also, for precisely narrowing in... So you might let 8 messages go out, but better 8 than 1000...

Bob



From brian at pro-phile.com  Tue Jun 26 05:25:20 2001
From: brian at pro-phile.com (Pro-phile Web Development)
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 20:25:20 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Setting up first list - problems
Message-ID: <003601c0fdef$a42875e0$0200a8c0@pacbell.net>

I just had someone who knows Linux a great deal more than I, install
mailman. I just tried to create a new list through telnet and got to this
point and received these errors. Can I figure out what is wrong through
this? Or do I need more info?

[mailman at host here bin]$ newlist
Enter the name of the list: cbr900
Enter the email of the person running the list: brian at host here.com
Initial cbr900 password:
Traceback (innermost last):
  File "/home/mailman/bin/newlist", line 220, in ?
    main()
  File "/home/mailman/bin/newlist", line 169, in main
    mlist.Create(listname, owner_mail, pw)
  File "/home/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 787, in Create
    self.InitVars(name, admin, crypted_password)
  File "/home/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 335, in InitVars
    Archiver.InitVars(self) # has configurable stuff
  File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/Archiver.py", line 70, in InitVars
    self.archive_private = mm_cfg.DEFAULT_ARCHIVE_PRIVATE
AttributeError: DEFAULT_ARCHIVE_PRIVATE

Thanks for the help!





From chuqui at plaidworks.com  Tue Jun 26 05:25:37 2001
From: chuqui at plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach)
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 20:25:37 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mail loops: list-request and vacation messages
In-Reply-To: <3B37FFD2.61885287@nleaudio.com>
Message-ID: <200106260317.f5Q3HEh30490@plaidworks.com>

On Monday, June 25, 2001, at 08:21 PM, Bob Puff at NLE wrote:

> Relatively easy.  Set a limit on how many messages a user can post in 
> say a 10 minute period.  Make it user editable.  If you get >8, you've 
> got a loop!

that slows it down, but doesn't catch any but the worst loops. It's just 
as typical to see these things in a 30 minute turnaround as a 3 minute. 
Or 2 hours.  You can reduce the worst of the damage, but these hacks 
don't really fix it.


--
Chuq Von Rospach, Internet Gnome <http://www.chuqui.com>
[<chuqui at plaidworks.com> = <me at chuqui.com> = <chuq at apple.com>]
Yes, yes, I've finally finished my home page. Lucky you.

95% of being a net.god is sounding persuasive
and convincing people you know what you're talking about, even when 
you're
making it up as you go along. (chuq von rospach, 1992)






From bob at nleaudio.com  Tue Jun 26 05:39:32 2001
From: bob at nleaudio.com (Bob Puff@NLE)
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 23:39:32 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mail loops: list-request and vacation messages
References: <200106260317.f5Q3HEh30490@plaidworks.com>
Message-ID: <3B3803F4.7EDE5C6C@nleaudio.com>

Chuq Von Rospach wrote:
> 
> On Monday, June 25, 2001, at 08:21 PM, Bob Puff at NLE wrote:
> 
> > Relatively easy.  Set a limit on how many messages a user can post in
> > say a 10 minute period.  Make it user editable.  If you get >8, you've
> > got a loop!
> 
> that slows it down, but doesn't catch any but the worst loops. It's just
> as typical to see these things in a 30 minute turnaround as a 3 minute.
> Or 2 hours.  You can reduce the worst of the damage, but these hacks
> don't really fix it.

Hmm, can't say I've seen the long turnaround, but you could still play with the numbers, based on the fact that the mailbot will generate one reply for every message it receives.  In other words, you could make a rule something like:

  Any given user cannot post more than 10 messages in a 24 hour period.

I think this is how Lyris handles such things.

Bob



From barry at digicool.com  Tue Jun 26 05:45:16 2001
From: barry at digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 23:45:16 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mail loops: list-request and vacation messages
References: <p05101001b75d8490bc14@[207.149.192.229]>
	<200106260018.f5Q0IXh27428@plaidworks.com>
Message-ID: <15160.1356.807940.537109@anthem.wooz.org>

>>>>> "CVR" == Chuq Von Rospach <chuqui at plaidworks.com> writes:

    CVR> One reason why I never use a vacation message.

Same here.  Plus the fact that I realized such a message really makes
no difference whatsoever.  I'm still as unresponsive as ever to the
vast avalanche of email that continues unabated. ;)

-Barry



From barry at digicool.com  Tue Jun 26 05:47:08 2001
From: barry at digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 23:47:08 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mail loops: list-request and vacation messages
References: <mqq1yo8mo8j.fsf@eng.cam.ac.uk>
	<200106252205.f5PM5vh24968@plaidworks.com>
Message-ID: <15160.1468.702086.127323@anthem.wooz.org>

>>>>> "CVR" == Chuq Von Rospach <chuqui at plaidworks.com> writes:

    >> It would be nice if Mailman was more resistant to these mail
    >> loops [2].

    CVR> Suggestions on how?

One approachable suggestion: put a governor on the number of messages
any one address is allowed to post to a list per time period.

-Barry



From chuqui at plaidworks.com  Tue Jun 26 05:49:40 2001
From: chuqui at plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach)
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 20:49:40 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mail loops: list-request and vacation messages
In-Reply-To: <3B3803F4.7EDE5C6C@nleaudio.com>
Message-ID: <200106260341.f5Q3fMh30993@plaidworks.com>

On Monday, June 25, 2001, at 08:39 PM, Bob Puff at NLE wrote:

> Hmm, can't say I've seen the long turnaround, but you could still play 
> with the numbers, based on the fact that the mailbot will generate one 
> reply for every message it receives.

My worst case (and I swear this is true). I found a mail loop by pure 
accident that had been going on for over three months, between my 
majordomo software and someone's "I don't work here any more". Both 
sides were nice enough to append the entire previous message, of course. 
He'd send a message saying "I don't work here any more!", and majordomo 
would reply "I don't recognize that command!".

When I found it, the file being sent back and forth was 90 megabytes. It 
was making a round trip about every 18 hours. When it started, it was 
much smaller (it started out as about a 2K message, but every round 
trip, majordomo added 10K, and he added another 2K), and cycled about 
every two hours.

I found it because I was working on my sendmail installation, and I said 
to myself "self! why is there a 90 megabyte e-mail message in here?"

Of course, he stripped the subject and replaced it with his own. He 
stripped any identifying headers in the included body. He stripped the 
message ID and any reference to an existing one. he didn't include any 
key word to trap against. And he responded to everything.

Even if I wanted to trap that beast, there was no hook on it to trap, 
and it travelled slow enough (even at the beginning) that if I wanted to 
trap it on round trips, I'd also trap legitimate prolific users. And 
since you'd have to do some serious analysis of the majordomo logs to 
find it, one can only wonder how much bandwidth it ate before it died. 
At the time, my site would have killed it at 100 megs as a maximum 
message size. I now run a amximum message size much smaller... Just in 
case.

>  In other words, you could make a rule something like:
>
>   Any given user cannot post more than 10 messages in a 24 hour period.
>
And I'd be constantly being blocked from any number of mailing lists, 
including, at times, this one.

That's the problem iwth this kind of "fix". you'll end up with false 
positives, and it doesn't fix the problem. It simply makes it less 
annoying; and it's arguable how much less...



--
Chuq Von Rospach, Internet Gnome <http://www.chuqui.com>
[<chuqui at plaidworks.com> = <me at chuqui.com> = <chuq at apple.com>]
Yes, yes, I've finally finished my home page. Lucky you.

Yes, I am an agent of Satan, but my duties
are largely ceremonial.





From chuqui at plaidworks.com  Tue Jun 26 05:57:38 2001
From: chuqui at plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach)
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 20:57:38 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mail loops: list-request and vacation messages
In-Reply-To: <15160.1468.702086.127323@anthem.wooz.org>
Message-ID: <200106260349.f5Q3nFh31165@plaidworks.com>

On Monday, June 25, 2001, at 08:47 PM, Barry A. Warsaw wrote:

> One approachable suggestion: put a governor on the number of messages
> any one address is allowed to post to a list per time period.
>

Could the new queueing system be set up with a timed-backoff delay? 
you'd have to keep a fair amount of state, but the minimum time between 
postings for a given user is, say, 30 minutes, and every time they post 
it doubles? (30, 1 hour, 2 hours, 4 hours...). this sort of thing gets 
gnarly fast, though, since oyu have to start tracking when the first one 
came in and age it out of the system, or find some other way to keep 
from really honking off your legitimate, prolific posters.

You're already doing much of what you can without being annoying and 
generating false positives -- the X-BeenThere, for instance. If 2.1 
doesn't do it, keeping track of message-id's and locking down repeated 
ones is a good idea. So is building a suite of keywords "out of the 
office", "on vacation" that lock to admin approval.  Rate limiters, 
though, are double-edged bananas. think about what happens on these 
lists when we get into a burst of discussion or development activity -- 
do you really want your own posts, or JC's or Dan's held simply beacuse 
they've sat down with a cup of coffee and answered ten pending questions 
all at once? You run the risk of honking off the common posters and the 
people who answer questions, or shutting down discussions that get 
interesting, simply because they spike messages. Exactly (IMHO) what you 
don't want -- everytime something gets interesting, a nanny that says 
"don't care if you're having fun, you're posting too much..." (grin)

(we could, I guess, get into my position that e-mail is a horrible way 
to do this sort of stuff... After all, on a typical discussion list, 
what's usually the first thing that happens after a bunch of people get 
into an enthusiastic discussion? People coming out of the woodwork to 
tell them to shut up, because they're generating too many messages... 
What a great medium, where good discussions are so often seen as a bad 
thing... snicker)





--
Chuq Von Rospach, Internet Gnome <http://www.chuqui.com>
[<chuqui at plaidworks.com> = <me at chuqui.com> = <chuq at apple.com>]
Yes, yes, I've finally finished my home page. Lucky you.

You know, I Remember When I Used To Speak In Capitals, Too. It's 
addictive.
It also encourages people to poke sticks at you. Justifiably. (chuq, 
1992)



From bob at nleaudio.com  Tue Jun 26 06:13:20 2001
From: bob at nleaudio.com (Bob Puff@NLE)
Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 00:13:20 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mail loops: list-request and vacation messages
References: <200106260341.f5Q3fMh30993@plaidworks.com>
Message-ID: <3B380BE0.B88972E8@nleaudio.com>

Hi Chuq,

That was one wild autoresponder!

But I still maintain that having the two variables I mentioned, x number of messages in y minutes, this could be "tuned" per list to be 90% effective.  On a high-volume list (like this one), obviously you set the max number of messages higher than on a list that only gets a handful of messages per day.

I think we all can agree that while nothing might be 100% effective, it's the mailbots that return each message they receive to the list-post address that are the major causes of headaches.  THOSE are the ones we need to automatically catch.  And that's not that difficult to do.  The mailbots that have long delays - they can be caught by the admins that only check in every other day or so, as they are not going to be piling on 1000 messages.

Bob



From barry at digicool.com  Tue Jun 26 06:19:12 2001
From: barry at digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 00:19:12 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mail loops: list-request and vacation messages
References: <15160.1468.702086.127323@anthem.wooz.org>
	<200106260349.f5Q3nFh31165@plaidworks.com>
Message-ID: <15160.3392.491171.289294@anthem.wooz.org>

>>>>> "CVR" == Chuq Von Rospach <chuqui at plaidworks.com> writes:

    CVR> Could the new queueing system be set up with a timed-backoff
    CVR> delay?  you'd have to keep a fair amount of state, but the
    CVR> minimum time between postings for a given user is, say, 30
    CVR> minutes, and every time they post it doubles? (30, 1 hour, 2
    CVR> hours, 4 hours...). this sort of thing gets gnarly fast,
    CVR> though, since oyu have to start tracking when the first one
    CVR> came in and age it out of the system, or find some other way
    CVR> to keep from really honking off your legitimate, prolific
    CVR> posters.

I think the queuing system is too coarse for this kind of rate
limiting, and you're absolutely right that the tracking gets hairy
(who really understands the bounce metrics?  Other than John Viega
that is, and I bet even he doesn't remember!  ;)

    CVR> do you really want your own posts, or JC's or Dan's held
    CVR> simply beacuse they've sat down with a cup of coffee and
    CVR> answered ten pending questions all at once?

Nope, and I agree with everything you've said.  What I was thinking of
was flagging situations where you see 10 or 50 or 100 posts from the
same address in the span of a couple of minutes.  Something clearly
faster than a human can type, and which only a spammer or
out-of-control mailbot could be responsible for.  Tuning this thing
would be tricky; a slow trickle from a bad 'bot would get through this
filter, but might also be less annoying that it /does/ get through.

    CVR> If 2.1 doesn't do it, keeping track of message-id's and
    CVR> locking down repeated ones is a good idea.

I'm starting to go down this road.  I'm about to check in some changes
so that at least the message-id's of flow-thru messages will be
logged, and it's not a great leap from there to red-flagging duplicate
message-ids.
    
    CVR> So is building a suite of keywords "out of the office", "on
    CVR> vacation" that lock to admin approval.

Another area that I've been working on, with some preliminary results
hopefully checked in soon.  As I've mentioned before, the really tough
bit here is the web ui.

-Barry



From chuqui at plaidworks.com  Tue Jun 26 06:21:20 2001
From: chuqui at plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach)
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 21:21:20 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mail loops: list-request and vacation messages
In-Reply-To: <3B380BE0.B88972E8@nleaudio.com>
Message-ID: <200106260412.f5Q4Cvh31543@plaidworks.com>

On Monday, June 25, 2001, at 09:13 PM, Bob Puff at NLE wrote:

> That was one wild autoresponder!

yeah. Made ME much more aware of why these things need to behave 
properly. I try, although sometimes I fall short with my stuff.

> But I still maintain that having the two variables I mentioned, x 
> number of messages in y minutes, this could be "tuned" per list to be 
> 90% effective.

My problem is the false positive problem. You can tune it to catch 90% 
of the mail loops, but mail loops are generally pretty infrequent 
anyway. But can you tune it to do that AND not cause false positives 
with your prolific posters? That's not so easy. You run the risk of 
throttling key posters or motivated discussions -- all in the name of 
occasionally catching a mail loop.

I've found that false positives are VERY bad things on a list. So I'd 
rather do without a filter than one that causes them, unless it's very, 
very important to trap whatever Im trapping.






--
Chuq Von Rospach, Internet Gnome <http://www.chuqui.com>
[<chuqui at plaidworks.com> = <me at chuqui.com> = <chuq at apple.com>]
Yes, yes, I've finally finished my home page. Lucky you.

I'll try being nicer if you'll try being
smarter.





From bob at nleaudio.com  Tue Jun 26 06:41:19 2001
From: bob at nleaudio.com (Bob Puff@NLE)
Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 00:41:19 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mail loops: list-request and vacation messages
References: <200106260412.f5Q4Cvh31543@plaidworks.com>
Message-ID: <3B38126F.55492115@nleaudio.com>

I agree that false positives are bad.  But let's take a look at the past few messages people have posted, saying, "I've got a massive autoresponder problem.  How do I stop it?!"  We're talking about hundreds, maybe thousands of posts per day.  I doubt even the most prolific poster is going to be doing more than 50 posts per day.  Let's face it, an agressive autoresponder can cause a melt down.  I'm all for anything that will help avoid that!

Also consider that this might be a very desirable feature on some lists, limiting the ability of a person to make excessive posts.  

That's why editable numbers would work for everyone - 0 could disable the feature (and could be set to this by default), etc etc...

Bob



From chuqui at plaidworks.com  Tue Jun 26 06:36:22 2001
From: chuqui at plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach)
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 21:36:22 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mail loops: list-request and vacation messages
In-Reply-To: <15160.3392.491171.289294@anthem.wooz.org>
Message-ID: <200106260427.f5Q4Rwh31772@plaidworks.com>

On Monday, June 25, 2001, at 09:19 PM, Barry A. Warsaw wrote:

> Nope, and I agree with everything you've said.  What I was thinking of
> was flagging situations where you see 10 or 50 or 100 posts from the
> same address in the span of a couple of minutes.

But you won't see that, Barry. Think about how a loop operates. You send 
a message to someone with a dweeby mailbot. it responds. that response 
goes back into your incoming queue, and gets sent out again. Then the 
mailbot responds again. For the mailbot to respond that frequently, it 
not only has to be on a very lightly loaded system with quick turnaround 
and a fast pipe, but your mailman system has to be able to churn out 
that quickly, too.

I think the absolute worst I've ever seen on a mailbot loop was about 
1200 in an hour -- and that didn't involve a MLM, just to dueling 
mailbots (mine was stupid and fast, too. I fixed it). Instead, what 
you're likely to see is the message returning once per qrunner instance, 
more or less. It's not a flood, it's a long, slow trickle leading to 
dryrot.

I think you can do pretty much everything you want to do without 
actually rate limiting, and get side benefits as well.

If you:

continue to track X-beenthere

>     CVR> If 2.1 doesn't do it, keeping track of message-id's and
>     CVR> locking down repeated ones is a good idea.

bounce duplicate message-ids.

>     CVR> So is building a suite of keywords "out of the office", "on
>     CVR> vacation" that lock to admin approval.
>

do the suite of keywords

and do two other things:

trap any message with a default digest subject line, and

trap any message with the list footer included in the reply

you'll trap pretty much every damn loop out there early and often. The 
two content traps are significant -- because chances are, the loopbot 
will simply return a "Re: today's dweeby digest V1#13 (I am on 
vacation), so if you trap on dweeby digest, you trap the bot. Or they 
include your message in their response, which includeds the standard 
footer, which includes text you can trap against, if you word it right.

Some folks, however, would consider those false positives, since they 
will also trap 'real' replies. My research (and I've actually done a 
number of user surveys on this....) actually indicate you're enforcing 
netiquette instead, and the users you honk off by doing so are far 
outnumbered by the ones who are sick and tired of people who don't edit 
included messages or fix the @#$@#$#@ subject line when replying to 
digests. So you get some free benefit and solve two problems at once...

I did a LOT of this kind of filtering on my heavily-hacked majordomo 
system. I got a complaint a montha bout being a content nazi, and they 
were usually about that friendly. (on the other hand, before I started 
bonking "dweeby digest #...." subject lines, I got about a dozen 
complaints a month to do something about it, and there was usually a 
fight going on on ONE of the lists where users were arguing about it.). 
Since I moved to mailman, I dropped all that, to see what happened. 
Short answer; users quickly fell back into old, lazy habits, and other 
users quickly started writing me asking me to PUT IT BACK. Even many who 
bitched at me for doing it in the first place. Once they saw what it was 
trapping -- they understood...

I just haven't had time...

when I had my hacks in place, I had very, very few loops sneak through. 
they had to work hard to do it. Mailman's actually pretty good about it, 
and I'd say 95% of the loops that do sneak through could be tgrapped by 
trapping the default digest subject line, but that's mostly because 
digests coerce reply-to (they basically have to. I can't justify 
reply-to-nobody, but it's tempting), and that's what usually starts 
loops in the first place....



--
Chuq Von Rospach, Internet Gnome <http://www.chuqui.com>
[<chuqui at plaidworks.com> = <me at chuqui.com> = <chuq at apple.com>]
Yes, yes, I've finally finished my home page. Lucky you.

Always look away from the obvious answers, because if you don't find
a better one, you can always go back to them on short notice.





From chuqui at plaidworks.com  Tue Jun 26 06:40:53 2001
From: chuqui at plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach)
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 21:40:53 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mail loops: list-request and vacation messages
In-Reply-To: <3B38126F.55492115@nleaudio.com>
Message-ID: <200106260432.f5Q4WUh31824@plaidworks.com>

On Monday, June 25, 2001, at 09:41 PM, Bob Puff at NLE wrote:

> I agree that false positives are bad.  But let's take a look at the 
> past few messages people have posted,

true -- but it's no excuse to fix it badly. Or simply create other 
problems.

>  I doubt even the most prolific poster is going to be doing more than 
> 50 posts per day.

Um... I could. I have. but then, back in the Good Old Days, I used to 
consistently be in the top ten biggest sites in Usenet. Not my site, me. 
Back when I was young, single and didn't know better...

>  Let's face it, an agressive autoresponder can cause a melt down.  I'm 
> all for anything that will help avoid that!

Not anything. Because anything would mean you're all for shutting down 
the list simply to avoid the chance of a major mail loop.

The issue isn't whether or not to fix these problems. It's how. And the 
'obvious' fixes (rate limiters) don't really fix the problem. Rather 
than latch onto the first thing you think of and decide it has to be 
'it', it's better to think it through and try to find a way that fixes 
it elegantly, and without creating other problems or impacting your 
users.

Quick hacks usually come back to bite you. Usually on deadline.

> Also consider that this might be a very desirable feature on some 
> lists, limiting the ability of a person to make excessive posts.
>

that's something for a list admin to decide, not a state counter in a 
database.


--
Chuq Von Rospach, Internet Gnome <http://www.chuqui.com>
[<chuqui at plaidworks.com> = <me at chuqui.com> = <chuq at apple.com>]
Yes, yes, I've finally finished my home page. Lucky you.

Some days you're the dog, some days you're the hydrant.




From jandl at jandl.com  Tue Jun 26 06:39:37 2001
From: jandl at jandl.com (L Gallegos)
Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 00:39:37 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Attachements
Message-ID: <3B37D9C9.17527.BBD15D9@localhost>

Is there are way to for this tired list admin to not allow posters to 
post attachments?

Leah G.



From juha at saarinen.org  Tue Jun 26 06:47:34 2001
From: juha at saarinen.org (Juha Saarinen)
Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 16:47:34 +1200 (NZST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Attachements
In-Reply-To: <3B37D9C9.17527.BBD15D9@localhost>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0106261647180.6316-100000@vimfuego.saarinen.org>

On Tue, 26 Jun 2001, L Gallegos wrote:

> Is there are way to for this tired list admin to not allow posters to
> post attachments?

Set the maximum attachment size to 0KB?

-- 
Regards,


Juha

PGP fingerprint:
B7E1 CC52 5FCA 9756 B502  10C8 4CD8 B066 12F3 9544




From claw at kanga.nu  Tue Jun 26 07:14:47 2001
From: claw at kanga.nu (claw at kanga.nu)
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 22:14:47 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Attachements 
In-Reply-To: Message from "L Gallegos" <jandl@jandl.com> 
   of "Tue, 26 Jun 2001 00:39:37 EDT." <3B37D9C9.17527.BBD15D9@localhost> 
References: <3B37D9C9.17527.BBD15D9@localhost> 
Message-ID: <16377.993532487@2wire.com>

On Tue, 26 Jun 2001 00:39:37 -0400 
L Gallegos <L> wrote:

> Is there are way to for this tired list admin to not allow posters
> to post attachments?

Configure the list to hole all messages which have a Content-Type
string of other than text/plain.

-- 
J C Lawrence                                       claw at kanga.nu
---------(*)                          http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/
The pressure to survive and rhetoric may make strange bedfellows



From claw at kanga.nu  Tue Jun 26 07:46:27 2001
From: claw at kanga.nu (claw at kanga.nu)
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 22:46:27 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mail loops: list-request and vacation messages 
In-Reply-To: Message from Chuq Von Rospach <chuqui@plaidworks.com> 
   of "Mon, 25 Jun 2001 21:21:20 PDT." <200106260412.f5Q4Cvh31543@plaidworks.com> 
References: <200106260412.f5Q4Cvh31543@plaidworks.com> 
Message-ID: <16661.993534387@2wire.com>

On Mon, 25 Jun 2001 21:21:20 -0700 
Chuq Von Rospach <chuqui at plaidworks.com> wrote:

> My problem is the false positive problem. You can tune it to catch
> 90% of the mail loops, but mail loops are generally pretty
> infrequent anyway. But can you tune it to do that AND not cause
> false positives with your prolific posters? That's not so
> easy. You run the risk of throttling key posters or motivated
> discussions -- all in the name of occasionally catching a mail
> loop.

> I've found that false positives are VERY bad things on a list. So
> I'd rather do without a filter than one that causes them, unless
> it's very, very important to trap whatever Im trapping.

Ultimately I'd like to see separate moderate queues for the
different hold reasons (at least at the UI level).  Thus, for
instance I'd like to be able to view just the messages held for
moderator approval, just those caught by the spam filters, just
those held by the loop-detectors, etc.  

-- 
J C Lawrence                                       claw at kanga.nu
---------(*)                          http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/
The pressure to survive and rhetoric may make strange bedfellows



From claw at 2wire.com  Tue Jun 26 07:30:17 2001
From: claw at 2wire.com (J C Lawrence)
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 22:30:17 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Debian upgrade hell... 
In-Reply-To: Message from Deirdre Saoirse Moen <deirdre@deirdre.net> 
   of "Sun, 24 Jun 2001 02:09:34 PDT." <a05100e0fb75b5c7f87de@[10.20.0.138]> 
References: <E15E5jQ-00044B-00@mail.python.org>  <a05100e0fb75b5c7f87de@[10.20.0.138]> 
Message-ID: <16546.993533417@2wire.com>

On Sun, 24 Jun 2001 02:09:34 -0700 
Deirdre Saoirse Moen <deirdre at deirdre.net> wrote:

> Thus, what I'd *really* like is the One True configure incantation
> for debian because I've been working on getting this system
> unbroken (without breaking my as-yet-ungraded grad school final
> project of course) in ten hours with extensive searching of
> archives and web.

The patter I usually follow in such cases:

  $ apt-get source mailman
  $ zcat mailman_*.diff.gz
  $ cd mailman=*
  $ debian/rules binary
  $ cat config.status

Then I go hand apply the patch to the newer version as applicable,
repeat the configure line etc.

-- 
J C Lawrence                                       claw at kanga.nu
---------(*)                          http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/
The pressure to survive and rhetoric may make strange bedfellows



From claw at 2wire.com  Tue Jun 26 07:36:07 2001
From: claw at 2wire.com (J C Lawrence)
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 22:36:07 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mail loops: list-request and vacation messages 
In-Reply-To: Message from "Bob Puff@NLE" <bob@nleaudio.com> 
   of "Mon, 25 Jun 2001 23:21:54 EDT." <3B37FFD2.61885287@nleaudio.com> 
References: <E15EixO-00032F-00@mail.python.org>  <3B37FFD2.61885287@nleaudio.com> 
Message-ID: <16594.993533767@2wire.com>

On Mon, 25 Jun 2001 23:21:54 -0400 
bob  <Puff at NLE" <bob at nleaudio.com>> wrote:

>> If you can find something the mailbot did that (a) would allow
>> mailman to recognize it as such, and (b) wouldn't cause false
>> positives by blocking legitimate messages, let us know. We'll
>> look at improving mailman to trap it.

> Relatively easy.  Set a limit on how many messages a user can post
> in say a 10 minute period.  Make it user editable.  If you get >8,
> you've got a loop!

I will not uncommonly 20 - 30 messages to a list within 10 minutes
(I often write several messages in parallel and then hit send on
them all more or less at once).  For those on dialup accounts who
write their email while offline and then deliver next time they
dialin, I've regularly seen 50+ valid messages from a single user
within a 30 second period.

> You could make the period user-adjustable also, for precisely
> narrowing in... So you might let 8 messages go out, but better 8
> than 1000...

You're betting against the law of averages here.  At the very best,
that's a sucker bet.  Don't do it.

-- 
J C Lawrence                                       claw at kanga.nu
---------(*)                          http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/
The pressure to survive and rhetoric may make strange bedfellows



From claw at 2wire.com  Tue Jun 26 07:39:11 2001
From: claw at 2wire.com (J C Lawrence)
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 22:39:11 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mail loops: list-request and vacation messages 
In-Reply-To: Message from "Bob Puff@NLE" <bob@nleaudio.com> 
   of "Mon, 25 Jun 2001 23:39:32 EDT." <3B3803F4.7EDE5C6C@nleaudio.com> 
References: <200106260317.f5Q3HEh30490@plaidworks.com>  <3B3803F4.7EDE5C6C@nleaudio.com> 
Message-ID: <16609.993533951@2wire.com>

On Mon, 25 Jun 2001 23:39:32 -0400 
bob  <Puff at NLE" <bob at nleaudio.com>> wrote:

> Hmm, can't say I've seen the long turnaround, but you could still
> play with the numbers, based on the fact that the mailbot will
> generate one reply for every message it receives.  In other words,
> you could make a rule something like:

>   Any given user cannot post more than 10 messages in a 24 hour
> period.

> I think this is how Lyris handles such things.

As I previously wrote, this will break, and painfully so, at the
very times you don't want it to.

That said there are more interesting patters which can be used, such
as keeping the MD5 hash of the message bodies (not the headers!) for
the last N messages from each user.  It may break, but it will tend
to do so less catastrophically.

-- 
J C Lawrence                                       claw at kanga.nu
---------(*)                          http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/
The pressure to survive and rhetoric may make strange bedfellows



From claw at 2wire.com  Tue Jun 26 07:43:33 2001
From: claw at 2wire.com (J C Lawrence)
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 22:43:33 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mail loops: list-request and vacation messages 
In-Reply-To: Message from Chuq Von Rospach <chuqui@plaidworks.com> 
   of "Mon, 25 Jun 2001 20:57:38 PDT." <200106260349.f5Q3nFh31165@plaidworks.com> 
References: <200106260349.f5Q3nFh31165@plaidworks.com> 
Message-ID: <16641.993534213@2wire.com>

On Mon, 25 Jun 2001 20:57:38 -0700 
Chuq Von Rospach <chuqui at plaidworks.com> wrote:

> (we could, I guess, get into my position that e-mail is a horrible
> way to do this sort of stuff... After all, on a typical discussion
> list, what's usually the first thing that happens after a bunch of
> people get into an enthusiastic discussion? People coming out of
> the woodwork to tell them to shut up, because they're generating
> too many messages... What a great medium, where good discussions
> are so often seen as a bad thing... snicker)

I have a long standing rule on how I reward such people: I
unsubscribe them, immediately if not sooner.

-- 
J C Lawrence                                       claw at kanga.nu
---------(*)                          http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/
The pressure to survive and rhetoric may make strange bedfellows



From chuqui at plaidworks.com  Tue Jun 26 08:46:02 2001
From: chuqui at plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach)
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 23:46:02 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mail loops: list-request and vacation messages 
In-Reply-To: <16641.993534213@2wire.com>
Message-ID: <200106260637.f5Q6bdh01126@plaidworks.com>

On Monday, June 25, 2001, at 10:43 PM, J C Lawrence wrote:

>

> I have a long standing rule on how I reward such people: I
> unsubscribe them, immediately if not sooner.
>

I'm not that hard- at ss yet, but it's one reason why I have (and enforce) 
a "don't try to be a list mom" rule. My rules are actually fairly 
simple. If you want to act like a list mom, know the rules you're 
enforcing. And one of those rules is "don't do that". rather hard for 
them to justify their actions that way, of course.... (grin)


--
Chuq Von Rospach, Internet Gnome <http://www.chuqui.com>
[<chuqui at plaidworks.com> = <me at chuqui.com> = <chuq at apple.com>]
Yes, yes, I've finally finished my home page. Lucky you.

When an agnostic dies, does he go to the "great perhaps"?




From chuqui at plaidworks.com  Tue Jun 26 08:51:12 2001
From: chuqui at plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach)
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 23:51:12 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Debian upgrade hell... 
In-Reply-To: <16546.993533417@2wire.com>
Message-ID: <200106260642.f5Q6gnh01197@plaidworks.com>

On Monday, June 25, 2001, at 10:30 PM, J C Lawrence wrote:

> The patter I usually follow in such cases:
>

And people start to understand why I'm so hard-core about having test 
machines. I'm very paranoid about making changes to a production machine 
that I haven't already made to a test machine. Even for the "I'm only a 
lowly linux user", you can save 99% of these hassles with a cheapo $500 
beat-it-up box that you load with your system and try changes on, or 
even a nspare disk for your desktop and/or laptop. How many hours lost 
to fixing hosed "real" systems pays for that?

I will, sometimes, upgrade a production system cold. If there's a really 
serious issue where the cure is unlikely worse than the disease, or when 
I know the software well enough to know that the risks are minimal (or 
that I can hack it back into shape quickly). But I try to keep that very 
rare.

There's the real economy, the new economy and the false economy...


--
Chuq Von Rospach, Internet Gnome <http://www.chuqui.com>
[<chuqui at plaidworks.com> = <me at chuqui.com> = <chuq at apple.com>]
Yes, yes, I've finally finished my home page. Lucky you.

   To the optimist, the glass is half full.
   To the pessimist, the glass is half empty.
   To the engineer, the glass is twice as big as it needs to be.





From detlef.neubauer at charite.de  Tue Jun 26 09:09:04 2001
From: detlef.neubauer at charite.de (Detlef Neubauer)
Date: 26 Jun 2001 09:09:04 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Attachements
In-Reply-To: "L Gallegos"'s message of "Tue, 26 Jun 2001 00:39:37 -0400"
References: <3B37D9C9.17527.BBD15D9@localhost>
Message-ID: <m3zoavwwdr.fsf@mailman.charite.de>

"L Gallegos" <jandl at jandl.com> writes:

> Is there are way to for this tired list admin to not allow posters to 
> post attachments?

You can use stripmime --> http://www.phred.org/~alex/stripmime.html or
demime --> http://scifi.squawk.com/demime.html

I have tested demime and it works fine.

 Gru? Detlef Neubauer

-- 
.oO GnuPG Key auf http://germany.keyserver.net/ Oo.



From enriko.groen at netivity.nl  Tue Jun 26 09:39:11 2001
From: enriko.groen at netivity.nl (Enriko Groen)
Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 09:39:11 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Email Subscribe
Message-ID: <510EAC2065C0D311929200A0247252622F788D@NETIVITY-FS>

>-----Original Message-----
>From: BE.uk.co [mailto:be at be.uk.co]

>I've sent an email to my mailing lists email address with the subject
'Subscribe'
>although it did not subscribe the email address to the mailing list.
>How can someone email the list and get subscribed automatically?

One can not...
You'll have to subscribe through the webinterface of by sending an email to
listname-request at domain.net

You are able to set an option to catch admin requests which are posted to
the list. I think mailman while hold these messages for the list admin to
review. The list admin can take actions then. But there's no way to catch
them automaticly.

Correct me if I'm wrong.
--
Enriko Groen, Hosting manager
--------------------------------------------------------
netivity bv   www.netivity.nl   enriko.groen at netivity.nl
038 - 850 1000   van nagellstraat 4      8011 eb  zwolle
--------------------------------------------------------
  



From claw at kanga.nu  Tue Jun 26 09:40:49 2001
From: claw at kanga.nu (J C Lawrence)
Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 00:40:49 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Debian upgrade hell... 
In-Reply-To: Message from Chuq Von Rospach <chuqui@plaidworks.com> 
   of "Mon, 25 Jun 2001 23:51:12 PDT." <200106260642.f5Q6gnh01197@plaidworks.com> 
References: <200106260642.f5Q6gnh01197@plaidworks.com> 
Message-ID: <4446.993541249@kanga.nu>

On Mon, 25 Jun 2001 23:51:12 -0700 
Chuq Von Rospach <chuqui at plaidworks.com> wrote:

> On Monday, June 25, 2001, at 10:30 PM, J C Lawrence wrote:

>> The patter I usually follow in such cases:

> And people start to understand why I'm so hard-core about having
> test machines. 

Yup.  I do the same.  The specific need, which I do hit periodically,
is:

  I've got a Debian system but I need to build package FOO slightly
  differently from the default package.  How do I do that?  How was
  that package built and configured the first time?

I recently had that exact problem as I needed to built some PHP4
modules (mnoGoSearch in particular) that are not packaged under
Debian.  I then follow the patter I quoted on my test machine to get
the details of how Debian builds and packages PHP4 by default,
edited that as appropriate to build what I wanted, got it pretty
there, and then rolled to production.

> I'm very paranoid about making changes to a production machine
> that I haven't already made to a test machine. 

Damned right.  Even then I get burnt sometimes (things I forgot or
didn't know to check for).

-- 
J C Lawrence                                             claw at kanga.nu
---------(*)                                http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/
I never claimed to be human.



From enriko.groen at netivity.nl  Tue Jun 26 09:41:03 2001
From: enriko.groen at netivity.nl (Enriko Groen)
Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 09:41:03 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] A question
Message-ID: <510EAC2065C0D311929200A0247252622F788E@NETIVITY-FS>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: grace [mailto:grace at mountainviewdata.com]
> 
> How can I make sure the mailinglist is added to the postfix aliases
> database.

By doing it by hand/manually. There's no other way to add aliases at this
moment.

--
Enriko Groen, Hosting manager
--------------------------------------------------------
netivity bv   www.netivity.nl   enriko.groen at netivity.nl
038 - 850 1000   van nagellstraat 4      8011 eb  zwolle
--------------------------------------------------------
 



From enriko.groen at netivity.nl  Tue Jun 26 09:47:44 2001
From: enriko.groen at netivity.nl (Enriko Groen)
Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 09:47:44 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] ?????
Message-ID: <510EAC2065C0D311929200A0247252622F7890@NETIVITY-FS>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: scriptures [mailto:scriptures at ifriendly.com]

> WHY is it taking this long to correct the problem with may MailMan 1.1
> account?

Because no-one has answered your messages...
Look to this:

> OSError: [Errno 13] Permission denied:
> '/home/mailman/archives/public/scriptures'

- Check the permission on this file.
- Run bin/check_perms.
- Read the documentation and FAQs.

--
Enriko Groen, Hosting manager
--------------------------------------------------------
netivity bv   www.netivity.nl   enriko.groen at netivity.nl
038 - 850 1000   van nagellstraat 4      8011 eb  zwolle
--------------------------------------------------------
 



From claw at kanga.nu  Tue Jun 26 09:53:20 2001
From: claw at kanga.nu (J C Lawrence)
Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 00:53:20 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mail loops: list-request and vacation messages 
In-Reply-To: Message from Chuq Von Rospach <chuqui@plaidworks.com> 
   of "Mon, 25 Jun 2001 23:46:02 PDT." <200106260637.f5Q6bdh01126@plaidworks.com> 
References: <200106260637.f5Q6bdh01126@plaidworks.com> 
Message-ID: <31718.993542000@kanga.nu>

On Mon, 25 Jun 2001 23:46:02 -0700 
Chuq Von Rospach <chuqui at plaidworks.com> wrote:

> On Monday, June 25, 2001, at 10:43 PM, J C Lawrence wrote:

>> I have a long standing rule on how I reward such people: I
>> unsubscribe them, immediately if not sooner.

> I'm not that hard- at ss yet...

Hehn.  And who is the old fart here?

I look at it this way:

  This list is here for discussion of &topic;.  You are discouraging
  discussion of &topic; on this list, therefore you are attempting,
  conciously or not, deliberately or no, , to prevent this list from
  fulfilling its charter and the purpose for which it run.  I like
  this list and I want to see it succeed.  I'd rather not have
  people on this list that are trying to make it fail.

  Goodbye!

> ..., but it's one reason why I have (and enforce) a "don't try to
> be a list mom" rule. 

I look at it as a question of extent and case.

One of the things I require is proper attribution of quoted text (I
reject posts that aren't attributed).  Occassionally posts will come
thru that don't attribute the second or third level quotes.
Occasionally list members will notice this and comment, on-list,
that <whoever> needs to make sure they don't delete needed
attributions.  Fair sinkum.  Social norming.  Group definition.
Good stuff.  

Now posters trying to set and enforce new/different rules for the
list? (which has happened) That gets a short, sharp clue stick to
the side of the head.

> My rules are actually fairly simple. If you want to act like a
> list mom, know the rules you're enforcing. And one of those rules
> is "don't do that". rather hard for them to justify their actions
> that way, of course.... (grin)

Ha!

My general list moderation approach is:

  Here are the boundaries.  Anything within here that doesn't
  contravene or counter the base list purpose is fair game.
  Anything that hits these walls or which seems to counter, weaken,
  or detract from the list purpose or charter may be treated with
  all the prejudice likely to be show a rabid dog in a baby's bedroom.

Or at least that's the public stance.  The actual expression of that
tends to be rather quiet and carefully targeted to minimise
collateral damage.

-- 
J C Lawrence                                             claw at kanga.nu
---------(*)                                http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/
I never claimed to be human.



From Florian.Weimer at RUS.Uni-Stuttgart.DE  Tue Jun 26 11:19:01 2001
From: Florian.Weimer at RUS.Uni-Stuttgart.DE (Florian Weimer)
Date: 26 Jun 2001 11:19:01 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Multiple domains and lists with the same name
Message-ID: <tg8zify4xm.fsf@mercury.rus.uni-stuttgart.de>

I'd like to host multiple mail domains (two at the moment) on the same
host.  Some of the lists will have clashing names, e.g.. info at domain1
and info at domain2.

Shall I use two separate Mailman installations, or is there a better
solution?

-- 
Florian Weimer 	                  Florian.Weimer at RUS.Uni-Stuttgart.DE
University of Stuttgart           http://cert.uni-stuttgart.de/
RUS-CERT                          +49-711-685-5973/fax +49-711-685-5898



From barbara at sprog.auc.dk  Tue Jun 26 13:34:56 2001
From: barbara at sprog.auc.dk (Barbara Johansen)
Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 13:34:56 +0200 (MET DST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] sender-adress and multiple domains
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.95.1010626131907.11576S-100000@sprog.auc.dk>

Hi,

I just installed mailman for 3 virtuel domains. I made 3 separate
installations according to a posting of William R. Dickons in
oktober 2000

http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2000-October/007022.htm

The problem is that subscribers get the wrong "From:" address.

Can anybody tell me where this adress comes from and where I can edit it?

Now the from-adress is the servername+domainname but I want it to be the
virtual domain name.

I edited the Mailman/mm-cfg.py files:
SMTPHOST = 'lists.musik.auc.dk'
but this does not seem to have any effect.

I use Sendmail 8.11.4

Regards
Barbara


Barbara B. Johansen
Faculty of Humanities
Computing office
Aalborg University
Kroghstraede 3
DK 9220 Aalborg





From sunbts at yahoo.com  Tue Jun 26 13:39:13 2001
From: sunbts at yahoo.com (joseph eugene)
Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 04:39:13 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] test
Message-ID: <20010626113913.99284.qmail@web11001.mail.yahoo.com>

test

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail
http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/



From sunbts at yahoo.com  Tue Jun 26 14:21:21 2001
From: sunbts at yahoo.com (joseph eugene)
Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 05:21:21 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] test
Message-ID: <20010626122121.37351.qmail@web11005.mail.yahoo.com>

test

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail
http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/



From sunbts at yahoo.com  Tue Jun 26 14:23:12 2001
From: sunbts at yahoo.com (joseph eugene)
Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 05:23:12 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] test
In-Reply-To: <20010626122121.37351.qmail@web11005.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20010626122312.5622.qmail@web11001.mail.yahoo.com>

test1
--- joseph eugene <sunbts at yahoo.com> wrote:
> test
> 
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail
> http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
> 
>
------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users maillist  -  Mailman-Users at python.org
>
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail
http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/



From sunbts at yahoo.com  Tue Jun 26 14:25:59 2001
From: sunbts at yahoo.com (joseph eugene)
Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 05:25:59 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman-Users] test
In-Reply-To: <20010626122312.5622.qmail@web11001.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20010626122559.14937.qmail@web11006.mail.yahoo.com>

test2
--- joseph eugene <sunbts at yahoo.com> wrote:
> test1
> --- joseph eugene <sunbts at yahoo.com> wrote:
> > test
> > 
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail
> > http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
> > 
> >
>
------------------------------------------------------
> > Mailman-Users maillist  - 
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> >
>
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> 
> 
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail
> http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
> 
>
------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users maillist  -  Mailman-Users at python.org
>
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail
http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/



From Nigel.Metheringham at InTechnology.co.uk  Tue Jun 26 14:45:09 2001
From: Nigel.Metheringham at InTechnology.co.uk (Nigel Metheringham)
Date: 26 Jun 2001 13:45:09 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] test
In-Reply-To: <20010626113913.99284.qmail@web11001.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20010626113913.99284.qmail@web11001.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <993559514.909.0.camel@gaspode.localnet>

On 26 Jun 2001 04:39:13 -0700, joseph eugene wrote:
> test

Please do not send test messages to active lists.
Doing so manages to piss off a large number of people, some of whom you
may be asking for help since you are on the list and presumably
interested in Mailman development.

This list moves somewhere around 100 messages a day at times, adding
another half dozen test messages does nothing to increase the signal to
noise ratio, and persaudes people to unsubscribe rather than be deluged
by idiot messages.  

If you are testing mail receipt then you will get several in the next
couple of hours, if sending then don't send stuff to the list unless you
have something useful to say.

Remember, I, and many others, when interviewing job applicants,
routinely attempt an internet search on the person we are applying.  If
you show yourself as a fuckwit on the internet that will not count in
your favour.  Remember also that google and the like have a special
feature - the more stupid a posting makes you look, the nearer to the
top of a list of matching pages it appears!

	Nigel.
--
[ Nigel Metheringham           Nigel.Metheringham at InTechnology.co.uk ]
[ Phone: +44 1423 850000                         Fax +44 1423 858866 ]
[ - Comments in this message are my own and not ITO opinion/policy - ]
[ ----- Security is not an add-on -- security is a way of life ----- ]




From alex at phred.org  Tue Jun 26 15:11:00 2001
From: alex at phred.org (alex wetmore)
Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 06:11:00 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Attachements
In-Reply-To: <3B37D9C9.17527.BBD15D9@localhost>
Message-ID: <20010626060956.B95605-100000@phred.org>

On Tue, 26 Jun 2001, L Gallegos wrote:
> Is there are way to for this tired list admin to not allow posters to
> post attachments?

The normal way is to use stripmime, demime, or a similar tool that
"flattens" a mime message down to plain text and removes all
attachments.

Barry has hinted that future versions of mailman might have something
like this built in.

stripmime - http://www.phred.org/~alex/stripmime.html
demime - http://scifi.squawk.com/demime.html

alex




From barry at digicool.com  Tue Jun 26 16:07:11 2001
From: barry at digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 10:07:11 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mail loops: list-request and vacation messages 
References: <200106260412.f5Q4Cvh31543@plaidworks.com>
	<16661.993534387@2wire.com>
Message-ID: <15160.38671.298548.461429@anthem.wooz.org>

>>>>> "claw" ==   <claw at kanga.nu> writes:

    claw> Ultimately I'd like to see separate moderate queues for the
    claw> different hold reasons (at least at the UI level).  Thus,
    claw> for instance I'd like to be able to view just the messages
    claw> held for moderator approval, just those caught by the spam
    claw> filters, just those held by the loop-detectors, etc.

That's kind of along the lines I've been thinking.  I don't have much
concrete yet, but I'll try to spend some time writing down my thoughts
in the Mailman wiki.

-Barry



From ram at megalinux.net  Tue Jun 26 11:30:13 2001
From: ram at megalinux.net (Ram Prasad)
Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 15:00:13 +0530
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help - Installation with sendmail GID error - Please Help
Message-ID: <PDEELPCJMIIFPBGCIDMJCEMLCAAA.ram@megalinux.net>

Hi !

I am having problems in configuring mailman. I tried with --with-mail-gid
option. Still it is not working. Kinldy help me please/
the reply to my  test message is as following:


----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------

the original message was received at Tue, 26 Jun 2001 14:52:21 +0530

from rambo.megalinux.net [192.168.1.33]

----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----

"|/home/mailman/mail/wrapper post test"

(reason: 2)

(expanded from: <test at linux.megalinux.net>)

----- Transcript of session follows -----

Failure to exec script. WANTED gid 12, GOT gid 2. (Reconfigure to take 2?)

554 5.3.0 "|/home/mailman/mail/wrapper post test"... unknown mailer error 2

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From ram at megalinux.net  Tue Jun 26 11:27:08 2001
From: ram at megalinux.net (Ram Prasad)
Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 14:57:08 +0530
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help
Message-ID: <PDEELPCJMIIFPBGCIDMJGEMKCAAA.ram@megalinux.net>


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From chuqui at plaidworks.com  Tue Jun 26 16:39:56 2001
From: chuqui at plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach)
Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 07:39:56 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] test
In-Reply-To: <993559514.909.0.camel@gaspode.localnet>
Message-ID: <200106261431.f5QEVWh07310@plaidworks.com>

On Tuesday, June 26, 2001, at 05:45 AM, Nigel Metheringham wrote:

> On 26 Jun 2001 04:39:13 -0700, joseph eugene wrote:
>> test
>
> Please do not send test messages to active lists.
>

It is also a good way to get your posting priviledges revoked on my 
lists... so if you want to make sure your future tests fail -- keep 
testing...


--
Chuq Von Rospach, Internet Gnome <http://www.chuqui.com>
[<chuqui at plaidworks.com> = <me at chuqui.com> = <chuq at apple.com>]
Yes, yes, I've finally finished my home page. Lucky you.

"He doesn't have ulcers, but he's a carrier."




From puschl at puschl.at  Tue Jun 26 18:00:00 2001
From: puschl at puschl.at (Johannes Puschmann)
Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 18:00:00 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help - Installation with sendmail GID error - Please Help
References: <PDEELPCJMIIFPBGCIDMJCEMLCAAA.ram@megalinux.net>
Message-ID: <006501c0fe59$0e81b5a0$0b00a8c0@win2k>

I run in the same Problem.

Do a make clean, ./configure --with-mail-gid=2, --with-other-options

make, make install.

Check, if the user mailman has the same group ID as the group mailman.
Takes me one hour to figure this out.

  ----- Transcript of session follows -----

  Failure to exec script. WANTED gid 12, GOT gid 2. (Reconfigure to take 2?)

  554 5.3.0 "|/home/mailman/mail/wrapper post test"... unknown mailer error 2

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From adam at baz.org  Tue Jun 26 18:16:12 2001
From: adam at baz.org (Adam Hirsch)
Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 12:16:12 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] changed archive frequency
Message-ID: <20010626121612.A4811@baz.org>

Heya --

If I change the archive setting for archive_volume_frequency from, say,
monthly to quarterly, and then regenerate the archives, I still have
several month-long archive sections.  Any way of having only quarterly
volumes after regenerating?

Adam

-- 
Dictum ad tua mater.                                             adam at baz.org



From dairiki at dairiki.org  Tue Jun 26 18:42:05 2001
From: dairiki at dairiki.org (Jeff Dairiki)
Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 09:42:05 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Attachements 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 26 Jun 2001 06:11:00 PDT."
             <20010626060956.B95605-100000@phred.org> 
Message-ID: <200106261642.f5QGg5J16119@matthews.dairiki.org>

>> Is there are way to for this tired list admin to not allow posters to
>> post attachments?
>
>The normal way is to use stripmime, demime, or a similar tool that
>"flattens" a mime message down to plain text and removes all
>attachments.

There's also my patches for mailman-2.0.5.  See:
  http://sf.net/tracker/?func=detail&aid=413752&group_id=103&atid=300103





From claw at kanga.nu  Tue Jun 26 18:48:21 2001
From: claw at kanga.nu (J C Lawrence)
Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 09:48:21 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] test 
In-Reply-To: Message from Chuq Von Rospach <chuqui@plaidworks.com> 
   of "Tue, 26 Jun 2001 07:39:56 PDT." <200106261431.f5QEVWh07310@plaidworks.com> 
References: <200106261431.f5QEVWh07310@plaidworks.com> 
Message-ID: <27904.993574101@kanga.nu>

On Tue, 26 Jun 2001 07:39:56 -0700 
Chuq Von Rospach <chuqui at plaidworks.com> wrote:
> On Tuesday, June 26, 2001, at 05:45 AM, Nigel Metheringham wrote:
>> On 26 Jun 2001 04:39:13 -0700, joseph eugene wrote:

>>> test

>> Please do not send test messages to active lists.

> It is also a good way to get your posting priviledges revoked on
> my lists... so if you want to make sure your future tests fail --
> keep testing...

Yet another action I reward with automatic unsubscription.  Dropping
their posting rights doesn't communicate if they don't attempt to
post again, and gives them little reason to learn manners.  Kicking
them off the list and then requiring a promise of, "Yes, I'll be
polite and have good manners now," before they come back does
wonders.

-- 
J C Lawrence                                             claw at kanga.nu
---------(*)                                http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/
I never claimed to be human.



From johnpaulr at ehsmed.com  Tue Jun 26 18:42:16 2001
From: johnpaulr at ehsmed.com (John-Paul Robinson)
Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 11:42:16 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Multiple domains and lists with the same name
References: <tg8zify4xm.fsf@mercury.rus.uni-stuttgart.de>
Message-ID: <049501c0fe5e$f58774d0$3c0a0a0a@thurston>

I use multiple installations with Sendmail virtual domains.  I struggled a
lot to get this working.  It wasn't anything to do with the complexity  of
the Mailman or Sendmail config though.

The problem I discovered was that I had to have two distinct names in my
/etc/smrsh for the mailman "wrapper" program.  If I had just wrapper and
used that in all my alias expansions, all my mail would follow the link to
the same virtual domain instance of the mailman install.

I haven't seen this issue mentioned much, so I don't know if it is normally
required form smrsh users or if there is just something quirky I did.  Once
I did this, though, everything worked beautifully.

John-Paul





From mrbill at mrbill.net  Tue Jun 26 20:28:18 2001
From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford)
Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 13:28:18 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] 2.1 status?
Message-ID: <20010626132818.K4444@mrbill.net>

Any updates on 2.1 status?

-- 
Bill Bradford
mrbill at mrbill.net
Austin, TX



From ram at megalinux.net  Tue Jun 26 21:10:17 2001
From: ram at megalinux.net (Ram Prasad)
Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 00:40:17 +0530
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help with IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied
Message-ID: <PDEELPCJMIIFPBGCIDMJKENDCAAA.ram@megalinux.net>

Hi !

Please help ! I am getting the following error ...

Kindly help me solve this problem
----------------------------------------------------------------


   ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----
"|/usr/local/apache/htdocs/mailman/mail/wrapper post announce"
    (reason: 1)
    (expanded from: announce at linux.megalinux.net)

   ----- Transcript of session follows -----
Traceback (innermost last):
  File "/usr/local/apache/htdocs/mailman/scripts/post", line 94, in ?
    main()
  File "/usr/local/apache/htdocs/mailman/scripts/post", line 73, in main
    mlist = MailList.MailList(listname, lock=0)
  File "/usr/local/apache/htdocs/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 79, in
__init__
    self.Load()
  File "/usr/local/apache/htdocs/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 891, in
Load
    dict, e = self.__load(dbfile)
  File "/usr/local/apache/htdocs/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 868, in
__load
    fp = open(dbfile)
IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied:
'/usr/local/apache/htdocs/mailman/lists/announce/config.db'
554 5.3.0 "|/usr/local/apache/htdocs/mailman/mail/wrapper post announce"...
unknown mailer error 1




From aylan at emirates.net.ae  Tue Jun 26 21:46:20 2001
From: aylan at emirates.net.ae (Mubarak Mohammed)
Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 23:46:20 +0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Hi
Message-ID: <CJENLEGPIFNNHGCGADLLAEPCCAAA.aylan@emirates.net.ae>

I manage the mailinglist. I don't want to people to write message to my
mailinglist. I want to use it just to send our members aome important news.
How can I stop the member from sending message to this mailinglist?
thanks alot in advance
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From dsa at pucesa.edu.ec  Tue Jun 26 22:32:41 2001
From: dsa at pucesa.edu.ec (diego)
Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 15:32:41 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman doesn`t work!!
Message-ID: <000701c0fe7f$26f0c970$a3542e40@srvnt.pucesa.edu.ec>

Please help me,
Mailman doesn?t work I have a Linux Web Server, Red Hat 6.0, 
Python 1.5.1
I have installed perl too
but when my home page is loaded the CGI doesn?t run, just show me the list of sentences.

What do i have to do?
Thanks.
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From rodrigo at idg.com.br  Tue Jun 26 23:24:16 2001
From: rodrigo at idg.com.br (Rodrigo Leme de Mello)
Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 18:24:16 -0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Siimple doubt
Message-ID: <003101c0fe86$5ae7fe40$1057a8c0@IDG.COM.BR>

Hi all,

I have a simple question.

What is exactly the content of the directory qfiles?
This is the queue of mailman to postfix ?

Regards

Rodrigo




From peter-lists at hutnick.com  Wed Jun 27 00:20:38 2001
From: peter-lists at hutnick.com (Peter Hutnick)
Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 17:20:38 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] No address verification for one user.
Message-ID: <4134.208.180.77.220.993594038.squirrel@hutnick.com>

Hello,

I have one user who can't subscribe.  He did the first step, and the subscribe
log lists him as "pending."  He has not received the conformation email.

His webserver is on a dynamic DNS system.  He can receive mail to his host from
"everyone" except Mailman lists.  (Verified with a SF list.)

So, the question is: Does Mailman do some sort of "extra" DNS checking?  His
forward and reverse DNS entries (obviously?) conflict.  Is this the problem?

TIA.

-Peter





From crt6974 at labs.tamu.edu  Wed Jun 27 00:43:08 2001
From: crt6974 at labs.tamu.edu (Carl Thorpe)
Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 17:43:08 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] can a user join a list without having webaccess?
Message-ID: <003701c0fe91$5f1ad180$7cd15ba5@CONTINUUM.TAMU.EDU>

I guess the subject says it all.  Is there some kind of administrative command they can send to the list address or something?

Thanks,
Carl
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From puschl at puschl.at  Wed Jun 27 00:51:03 2001
From: puschl at puschl.at (Johannes Puschmann)
Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 00:51:03 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman doesn`t work!!
References: <000701c0fe7f$26f0c970$a3542e40@srvnt.pucesa.edu.ec>
Message-ID: <002201c0fe92$7a712690$0b00a8c0@win2k>

Probably an FAQ!
Mailman needs python from  www.python.org, not perl.
read the instructions at www.list.org


----- Original Message -----
From: diego
To: mailman-users at python.org
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 10:32 PM
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman doesn`t work!!


Please help me,
Mailman doesn?t work I have a Linux Web Server, Red Hat 6.0,
Python 1.5.1
I have installed perl too
but when my home page is loaded the CGI doesn?t run, just show me the list
of sentences.

What do i have to do?
Thanks.




From puschl at puschl.at  Wed Jun 27 00:53:10 2001
From: puschl at puschl.at (Johannes Puschmann)
Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 00:53:10 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help with IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied
References: <PDEELPCJMIIFPBGCIDMJKENDCAAA.ram@megalinux.net>
Message-ID: <002c01c0fe92$c6414320$0b00a8c0@win2k>

Check your permissions in the Mailman Home-dir.
check also user and group

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ram Prasad" <ram at megalinux.net>
To: <mailman-users at python.org>
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 9:10 PM
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help with IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied


> Hi !
>
> Please help ! I am getting the following error ...
>
> Kindly help me solve this problem
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>    ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----
> "|/usr/local/apache/htdocs/mailman/mail/wrapper post announce"
>     (reason: 1)
>     (expanded from: announce at linux.megalinux.net)
>
>    ----- Transcript of session follows -----
> Traceback (innermost last):
>   File "/usr/local/apache/htdocs/mailman/scripts/post", line 94, in ?
>     main()
>   File "/usr/local/apache/htdocs/mailman/scripts/post", line 73, in main
>     mlist = MailList.MailList(listname, lock=0)
>   File "/usr/local/apache/htdocs/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 79, in
> __init__
>     self.Load()
>   File "/usr/local/apache/htdocs/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 891,
in
> Load
>     dict, e = self.__load(dbfile)
>   File "/usr/local/apache/htdocs/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 868,
in
> __load
>     fp = open(dbfile)
> IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied:
> '/usr/local/apache/htdocs/mailman/lists/announce/config.db'
> 554 5.3.0 "|/usr/local/apache/htdocs/mailman/mail/wrapper post
announce"...
> unknown mailer error 1
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users maillist  -  Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
>
>




From puschl at puschl.at  Wed Jun 27 01:19:10 2001
From: puschl at puschl.at (Johannes Puschmann)
Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 01:19:10 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help with IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied
References: <PDEELPCJMIIFPBGCIDMJKENDCAAA.ram@megalinux.net> <002c01c0fe92$c6414320$0b00a8c0@win2k> <a05101040b75ec402a479@[10.20.0.138]>
Message-ID: <007101c0fe96$67ca6200$0b00a8c0@win2k>

> At 12:53 AM +0200 6/27/01, Johannes Puschmann wrote:
> >Check your permissions in the Mailman Home-dir.
> >check also user and group
>
> Not really helpful -- I've received this exact same error when
> check_perms came out OK and all the permissions WERE fine.
> --

it sounds like a silly question, but check, if the mailman user group ID and
the mailman user group have the same ID.
I have the same problem today.

BTW, can you send me the URL of your domain?
Mailman under the Apache Directory might not work.
"|/usr/local/apache/htdocs/mailman/mail/wrapper post
                             ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
change the mailman dir to /home/mailman, check the perms and read the FAQ

are the directorys owned by root or mailman or nobody ?

check this!







From albert at saabconsulting.com  Wed Jun 27 00:07:25 2001
From: albert at saabconsulting.com (Albert Saab)
Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 15:07:25 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Very quick question
Message-ID: <003401c0fe8c$632aa6b0$01000001@ibmtp>


Does your software run on Microsoft NT if Python is installed on NT?

Albert
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From cthorpe at neo.tamu.edu  Wed Jun 27 00:39:13 2001
From: cthorpe at neo.tamu.edu (Carl Thorpe)
Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 17:39:13 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] can a user join a list without having webaccess?
Message-ID: <001e01c0fe90$d2ece4a0$7cd15ba5@CONTINUUM.TAMU.EDU>

Well, the subject says it all I think.  Is there some kind of subscribe command that you can send to the list or something?

Thanks,
Carl
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From puschl at puschl.at  Wed Jun 27 00:58:22 2001
From: puschl at puschl.at (Johannes Puschmann)
Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 00:58:22 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] can a user join a list without having webaccess?
References: <003701c0fe91$5f1ad180$7cd15ba5@CONTINUUM.TAMU.EDU>
Message-ID: <003901c0fe93$7faee5b0$0b00a8c0@win2k>

subscribe mailinglist ??

mailman uses the same commands as majordomo

look at www.list.org

----- Original Message -----
From: Carl Thorpe
To: mailman-users at python.org
Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2001 12:43 AM
Subject: [Mailman-Users] can a user join a list without having webaccess?


I guess the subject says it all.  Is there some kind of administrative
command they can send to the list address or something?

Thanks,
Carl




From deirdre at deirdre.net  Wed Jun 27 00:58:46 2001
From: deirdre at deirdre.net (Deirdre Saoirse Moen)
Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 15:58:46 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help with IOError: [Errno 13] Permission
 denied
In-Reply-To: <002c01c0fe92$c6414320$0b00a8c0@win2k>
References: <PDEELPCJMIIFPBGCIDMJKENDCAAA.ram@megalinux.net>
 <002c01c0fe92$c6414320$0b00a8c0@win2k>
Message-ID: <a05101040b75ec402a479@[10.20.0.138]>

At 12:53 AM +0200 6/27/01, Johannes Puschmann wrote:
>Check your permissions in the Mailman Home-dir.
>check also user and group

Not really helpful -- I've received this exact same error when 
check_perms came out OK and all the permissions WERE fine.
-- 
_Deirdre    Stash-o-Matic: http://weirdre.com    http://deirdre.net
"Cannot run out of time.... Is infinite time. You... are finite....
Zathrus... is finite. This... is wrong tool!" -- Zathrus



From claw at 2wire.com  Wed Jun 27 01:33:41 2001
From: claw at 2wire.com (J C Lawrence)
Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 16:33:41 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] can a user join a list without having webaccess? 
In-Reply-To: Message from "Carl Thorpe" <crt6974@labs.tamu.edu> 
   of "Tue, 26 Jun 2001 17:43:08 CDT." <003701c0fe91$5f1ad180$7cd15ba5@CONTINUUM.TAMU.EDU> 
References: <003701c0fe91$5f1ad180$7cd15ba5@CONTINUUM.TAMU.EDU> 
Message-ID: <22917.993598421@2wire.com>

On Tue, 26 Jun 2001 17:43:08 -0500 
Carl Thorpe <crt6974 at labs.tamu.edu> wrote:

> I guess the subject says it all.  Is there some kind of
> administrative command they can send to the list address or
> something?

echo "subscribe" | mail listname-request at domain
 
-- 
J C Lawrence                                       claw at kanga.nu
---------(*)                          http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/
The pressure to survive and rhetoric may make strange bedfellows



From claw at 2wire.com  Wed Jun 27 01:43:42 2001
From: claw at 2wire.com (J C Lawrence)
Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 16:43:42 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] No address verification for one user. 
In-Reply-To: Message from "Peter Hutnick" <peter-lists@hutnick.com> 
   of "Tue, 26 Jun 2001 17:20:38 CDT." <4134.208.180.77.220.993594038.squirrel@hutnick.com> 
References: <4134.208.180.77.220.993594038.squirrel@hutnick.com> 
Message-ID: <22983.993599022@2wire.com>

On Tue, 26 Jun 2001 17:20:38 -0500 (CDT) 
Peter Hutnick <peter-lists at hutnick.com> wrote:

> Hello, I have one user who can't subscribe.  He did the first
> step, and the subscribe log lists him as "pending."  He has not
> received the conformation email.

> His webserver is on a dynamic DNS system.  He can receive mail to
> his host from "everyone" except Mailman lists.  (Verified with a
> SF list.)

> So, the question is: Does Mailman do some sort of "extra" DNS
> checking?  

It doesn't.

> His forward and reverse DNS entries (obviously?) conflict.  Is
> this the problem?

The interesting aspects are the MX record for this domain, whether
it is dynamic too (stupid, but it happens when they have no MX
listed and it defaults to the A record), whether there's a cacheing
nameserver local to the local MTA, and whether that nameserver
enforces minimum TTLs on cached entries.

Start out by digging his domain.  

If he doesn't have an MX record that's likely the root of your
answer right there.

If he does have an MX try telnetting to port 25 on that box and
hand-delivering a message to him to that mail server.  See if it
bounces or is rejected.

Next do the same thing on your local mail server and watch your MTA
logs to see where it tries to deliver it and what results it gets.

etc.

Somewhere in there you'll find the answer.

-- 
J C Lawrence                                       claw at kanga.nu
---------(*)                          http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/
The pressure to survive and rhetoric may make strange bedfellows



From bob at nleaudio.com  Wed Jun 27 03:56:39 2001
From: bob at nleaudio.com (Bob Puff@NLE)
Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 21:56:39 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Fixing subject lines
Message-ID: <3B393D57.5F576685@nleaudio.com>

I've noticed weird font/character tags popping up in my digest subject lines quite a bit recently.  Is there a way to fix / filter this, at least for the digests?  Example:

  36. Alternative Audio Interfaces for Notebook Computers (David Harris)
  37. Re: NY Times article (=?iso-8859-1?Q?SurgeX=AE?= AC Power Products)

Would be really nice to delete all the = stuff and related junk, stripping it down to plain ascii.

Bob



From luser at ahab.com  Tue Jun 26 23:16:52 2001
From: luser at ahab.com (JT)
Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 17:16:52 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help with IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied
In-Reply-To: <PDEELPCJMIIFPBGCIDMJKENDCAAA.ram@megalinux.net>; from ram@megalinux.net on Wed, Jun 27, 2001 at 12:40:17AM +0530
References: <PDEELPCJMIIFPBGCIDMJKENDCAAA.ram@megalinux.net>
Message-ID: <20010626171652.D1817@zed.unbeat.com>

You need to make config.db readable by the user or group under which Apache runs...
usually "nobody".  Try
	egrep "(User|Group)" httpd.conf

You should probably run "check_perms" in the Mailman bin directory.  IIRC, it
can even correct permissions problems if run as root.

Also, rather than putting all of mailman into a public web directory, try 
	ScriptAlias /mailman/ "/path/to/mailman/cgi-bin/"
in your apache configuration.

Otherwise, remote users may be able to read your files, which could enable
them to do Bad Things.  Of course, this may not be true depending on your
installation...


On Wed, Jun 27, 2001 at 12:40:17AM +0530, Ram Prasad wrote:
> Hi !
> 
> Please help ! I am getting the following error ...
> 
> Kindly help me solve this problem
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> 
>    ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----
> "|/usr/local/apache/htdocs/mailman/mail/wrapper post announce"
>     (reason: 1)
>     (expanded from: announce at linux.megalinux.net)
> 
>    ----- Transcript of session follows -----
> Traceback (innermost last):
>   File "/usr/local/apache/htdocs/mailman/scripts/post", line 94, in ?
>     main()
>   File "/usr/local/apache/htdocs/mailman/scripts/post", line 73, in main
>     mlist = MailList.MailList(listname, lock=0)
>   File "/usr/local/apache/htdocs/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 79, in
> __init__
>     self.Load()
>   File "/usr/local/apache/htdocs/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 891, in
> Load
>     dict, e = self.__load(dbfile)
>   File "/usr/local/apache/htdocs/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 868, in
> __load
>     fp = open(dbfile)
> IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied:
> '/usr/local/apache/htdocs/mailman/lists/announce/config.db'
> 554 5.3.0 "|/usr/local/apache/htdocs/mailman/mail/wrapper post announce"...
> unknown mailer error 1
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users maillist  -  Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users



From marc_news at valinux.com  Wed Jun 27 07:10:43 2001
From: marc_news at valinux.com (Marc MERLIN)
Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 22:10:43 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Removing single address from multiple lists
In-Reply-To: <05ef01c0ee31$b6f45d10$0200010a@home.beeze.com>; from techgrrl@beeze.com on Tue, Jun 05, 2001 at 07:38:04PM -0700
References: <05ef01c0ee31$b6f45d10$0200010a@home.beeze.com>
Message-ID: <20010626221043.C8296@moremagic.merlins.org>

On Tue, Jun 05, 2001 at 07:38:04PM -0700, Sarah K. Miller wrote:
> I know many people have asked for a way to remove a single address from multiple lists. Here's my solution (run as a script):

Or, faster, a patch I wrote for remove_members:
https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&aid=413257&group_id=103&atid=300103

Cheers,
Marc
(yeah, I'm behind on Email, I know)
-- 
Microsoft is to operating systems & security ....
                                      .... what McDonalds is to gourmet cooking
  
Home page: http://marc.merlins.org/   |   Finger marc_f at merlins.org for PGP key



From vizisz at freemail.hu  Wed Jun 27 08:18:37 2001
From: vizisz at freemail.hu (Vizi Szilard)
Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 08:18:37 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: can a user join a list without having webaccess?
In-Reply-To: <001e01c0fe90$d2ece4a0$7cd15ba5@CONTINUUM.TAMU.EDU>; from cthorpe@neo.tamu.edu on Tue, Jun 26, 2001 at 05:39:13PM -0500
References: <001e01c0fe90$d2ece4a0$7cd15ba5@CONTINUUM.TAMU.EDU>
Message-ID: <20010627081837.A15137@freemail.hu>

Hello,

Carl Thorpe wrote:
> Is there some kind of subscribe command that you
> can send to the list or something?

Yes, use the following command in a message BODY and send to
the request address of the list, <mylist>-request at somewhere.com

subscribe password [digest-option] [address=<myother at email.address>]

Where 'subscribe' is the command for adding the member, 
       password is the choosen password for that list.

Digest-option and address is not obligatory, but with them you can
override the default. So:
   digest-option can be nodigest or digest, nodigest is the default
  
And address=myother at address.stg tells Mailman to subscribe this 
email address and not with that from where the subscription request
came, default is the address of the message sender.

You can read more about the email commands in the $prefix/templates/help.txt
file.

Szilard Vizi
-------------
mailto:vizisz at freemail.hu             UIN:10676592



From vizisz at freemail.hu  Wed Jun 27 08:29:08 2001
From: vizisz at freemail.hu (Vizi Szilard)
Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 08:29:08 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: mailman doesn`t work!!
In-Reply-To: <000701c0fe7f$26f0c970$a3542e40@srvnt.pucesa.edu.ec>; from dsa@pucesa.edu.ec on Tue, Jun 26, 2001 at 03:32:41PM -0500
References: <000701c0fe7f$26f0c970$a3542e40@srvnt.pucesa.edu.ec>
Message-ID: <20010627082907.B15137@freemail.hu>

Hello,

diego wrote:
> Please help me,
> Mailman doesn?t work I have a Linux Web Server, Red Hat 6.0, 
> Python 1.5.1
         ^^^^^ this is a problem, Mailman needs at least Python
version 1.5.2.

http://rpmfind.net   will you help you (RH 6.2 has python-1.5.2*
compiled packages, try to update), or if you do not want to
change you working configuration compile Python from the source.

Source can be donwloaded from www.python.org , the latest is 2.1
Is can be compiled easly. 

The newer testing version working only with Python 2.0 and newer.
> I have installed perl too
As someone already told you Mailman does not use perl, so if you
installed perl only for Mailman, you can remove that package.

Szilard Vizi
-------------
mailto:vizisz at freemail.hu             UIN:10676592



From vizisz at freemail.hu  Wed Jun 27 08:49:17 2001
From: vizisz at freemail.hu (Vizi Szilard)
Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 08:49:17 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re:  Help - Installation with sendmail GID error - Please Help
In-Reply-To: <006501c0fe59$0e81b5a0$0b00a8c0@win2k>; from puschl@puschl.at on Tue, Jun 26, 2001 at 06:00:00PM +0200
References: <PDEELPCJMIIFPBGCIDMJCEMLCAAA.ram@megalinux.net> <006501c0fe59$0e81b5a0$0b00a8c0@win2k>
Message-ID: <20010627084917.C15137@freemail.hu>

Hy,

Johannes Puschmann wrote:
> Do a make clean, ./configure --with-mail-gid=2, --with-other-options

That shoud work, but the best way to know the correct mail-gid is:

[vizisz at tatooin vizisz]$ grep DefaultUser /etc/sendmail.cf
O DefaultUser=8:12

So in my case I have to use --with-mail-gid=12.

>   ----- Transcript of session follows -----
> 
> Failure to exec script. WANTED gid 12, GOT gid 2. (Reconfigure to take 2?)
>
> 554 5.3.0 "|/home/mailman/mail/wrapper post test"... unknown mailer error 2

And do not forget to make a link in the smrsh directory, or read the
README.SENDMAIL

In a few words:
     $  su
     $  cd /etc/smrsh
     $  ln -s /home/mailman/mail/wrapper wrapper

Szilard Vizi
-------------
mailto:vizisz at freemail.hu             UIN:10676592



From enriko.groen at netivity.nl  Wed Jun 27 09:08:07 2001
From: enriko.groen at netivity.nl (Enriko Groen)
Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 09:08:07 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Very quick question
Message-ID: <510EAC2065C0D311929200A0247252622F78A6@NETIVITY-FS>

Read "Requirements" on http://www.list.org <http://www.list.org> 
 

-----Original Message-----
From: Albert Saab [mailto:albert at saabconsulting.com]
Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2001 00:07
To: mailman-users at python.org
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Very quick question




Does your software run on Microsoft NT if Python is installed on NT? 

Albert 

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20010627/43399013/attachment.html 

From enriko.groen at netivity.nl  Wed Jun 27 09:35:03 2001
From: enriko.groen at netivity.nl (Enriko Groen)
Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 09:35:03 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Hi
Message-ID: <510EAC2065C0D311929200A0247252622F78A9@NETIVITY-FS>

-----Original Message-----
>From: Mubarak Mohammed [mailto:aylan at emirates.net.ae]
>Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 21:46
>To: mailman-users at python.org
>Subject: [Mailman-Users] Hi

>I manage the mailinglist. I don't want to people to write message to my
mailinglist. I 
>want to use it just to send our members aome important news. How can I stop
the member 
>from sending message to this mailinglist?

http://www.aurora.edu/~ckolar/mailman/mailman-administration-v2.html
Check under Posting Privilages Explained

Go to the list webinterface, Privacy Options
set "member_only_posting" to no
Then list the posting addresses in the box beneath that option.
--
Enriko Groen, Hosting manager
--------------------------------------------------------
netivity bv   www.netivity.nl   enriko.groen at netivity.nl
038 - 850 1000   van nagellstraat 4      8011 eb  zwolle
--------------------------------------------------------
  



From detlef.neubauer at charite.de  Wed Jun 27 10:40:40 2001
From: detlef.neubauer at charite.de (Detlef Neubauer)
Date: 27 Jun 2001 10:40:40 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Hi
In-Reply-To: Mubarak Mohammed's message of "Tue, 26 Jun 2001 23:46:20 +0400"
References: <CJENLEGPIFNNHGCGADLLAEPCCAAA.aylan@emirates.net.ae>
Message-ID: <m33d8ml3hz.fsf@mailman.charite.de>

Mubarak Mohammed <aylan at emirates.net.ae> writes:

> I manage the mailinglist. I don't want to people to write message to
> my mailinglist. I want to use it just to send our members aome
> important news. How can I stop the member from sending message to
> this mailinglist?

This is a FAQ. If you take a look to the archive, you will find the
answer.

http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2001-May/011410.html
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2001-June/011879.html
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2001-June/011932.html

 Gru? Detlef Neubauer

-- 
.oO GnuPG Key auf http://germany.keyserver.net/ Oo.



From webmaster at websitemanagementservices.com  Wed Jun 27 09:04:51 2001
From: webmaster at websitemanagementservices.com (Alan Snowden)
Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 17:04:51 +1000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] List Back Up
Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20010627170320.00aabdc0@mail.optusnet.com.au>

Hi,
can anyone please tell me how to download or
export my list to my PC .

Thanks
Alan S



From white at extra.dp.ua  Wed Jun 27 15:08:20 2001
From: white at extra.dp.ua (Alexander Prohorenko)
Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 16:08:20 +0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman & Sendmail problems
Message-ID: <3B39DAC4.17299AD0@extra.dp.ua>

Hello guys,

I've got a problem working Mailman.  I've installed it properly, everything
works,
but nobody can post/subscribe to the list.  Ie, I'm subscribing my email
through the
web, I'm recieveing a confirmation messages and sending reply but Mailman
just do
nothing, and my email still exists as "pending" one.  As admin, I can
easily subscribe
any email address through the web.  However, nobody is able to post to the
list - 
Mailman just do nothing with a messages.  Can you please advise me what
should I look
at to fix this?  Thanks.

ps.  FreeBSD 3.5-STABLE, Sendmail 8.11.1, Mailman 2.0.5.

-- 
Alexander Prohorenko, Extra Solutions
http://www.extrasy.net/solutions
"Good day to be alive, sir"



From thierry.jacquemart at s1.com  Wed Jun 27 17:13:11 2001
From: thierry.jacquemart at s1.com (Thierry Jacquemart)
Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 17:13:11 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman & Sendmail problems
References: <3B39DAC4.17299AD0@extra.dp.ua>
Message-ID: <3B39F807.A0E79821@s1.com>

Hi,

Actually I just got the same problem. Everything installed properly, I can see
mail delivered to the wrapper, but subscriptions stay "pending" in
logs/subscribe and mail sent to the list just disappear somewhere.

Thanks for help,
Thierry

PS RedHat 6.2, Sendmail 8.9.3, Mailman 2.0.5

Alexander Prohorenko wrote:

> Hello guys,
>
> I've got a problem working Mailman.  I've installed it properly, everything
> works,
> but nobody can post/subscribe to the list.  Ie, I'm subscribing my email
> through the
> web, I'm recieveing a confirmation messages and sending reply but Mailman
> just do
> nothing, and my email still exists as "pending" one.  As admin, I can
> easily subscribe
> any email address through the web.  However, nobody is able to post to the
> list -
> Mailman just do nothing with a messages.  Can you please advise me what
> should I look
> at to fix this?  Thanks.
>
> ps.  FreeBSD 3.5-STABLE, Sendmail 8.11.1, Mailman 2.0.5.
>
> --
> Alexander Prohorenko, Extra Solutions
> http://www.extrasy.net/solutions
> "Good day to be alive, sir"
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users maillist  -  Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users

--
Thierry Jacquemart, System Administrator, S1 Belgium
Kleine Kloosterstraat 23, B-1932 Sint-Stevens Woluwe
Phone: +32 2 200.4465 - Fax: +32 2 200.4224
E-mail: thierry.jacquemart at s1.com
Visit us at http://www.s1.com/





From enriko.groen at netivity.nl  Wed Jun 27 17:19:22 2001
From: enriko.groen at netivity.nl (Enriko Groen)
Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 17:19:22 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] List Back Up
Message-ID: <510EAC2065C0D311929200A0247252622F78C0@NETIVITY-FS>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Alan Snowden [mailto:webmaster at websitemanagementservices.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2001 09:05

> can anyone please tell me how to download or
> export my list to my PC .

What do you want to download?
A userlist? All messages? Both?
--
Enriko Groen, Hosting manager
--------------------------------------------------------
netivity bv   www.netivity.nl   enriko.groen at netivity.nl
038 - 850 1000   van nagellstraat 4      8011 eb  zwolle
--------------------------------------------------------
 



From howanitz at nindo.com  Wed Jun 27 17:27:58 2001
From: howanitz at nindo.com (Keith Howanitz)
Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 10:27:58 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman & Sendmail problems
In-Reply-To: <3B39DAC4.17299AD0@extra.dp.ua>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0106271026340.10374-100000@chauncer.greenshire.com>

Did you edit your /etc/aliases file after you created the list?

-- 

-Keith
howanitz at nindo.com

On Wed, 27 Jun 2001, Alexander Prohorenko wrote:

> Hello guys,
>
> I've got a problem working Mailman.  I've installed it properly, everything
> works,
> but nobody can post/subscribe to the list.  Ie, I'm subscribing my email
> through the
> web, I'm recieveing a confirmation messages and sending reply but Mailman
> just do
> nothing, and my email still exists as "pending" one.  As admin, I can
> easily subscribe
> any email address through the web.  However, nobody is able to post to the
> list -
> Mailman just do nothing with a messages.  Can you please advise me what
> should I look
> at to fix this?  Thanks.
>
> ps.  FreeBSD 3.5-STABLE, Sendmail 8.11.1, Mailman 2.0.5.




From enriko.groen at netivity.nl  Wed Jun 27 17:45:00 2001
From: enriko.groen at netivity.nl (Enriko Groen)
Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 17:45:00 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman & Sendmail problems
Message-ID: <510EAC2065C0D311929200A0247252622F78C5@NETIVITY-FS>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Alexander Prohorenko [mailto:white at extra.dp.ua]
> 
> I've got a problem working Mailman.  I've installed it 
> properly, everything
> works,
> but nobody can post/subscribe to the list.  Ie, I'm 
> subscribing my email
> through the
> web, I'm recieveing a confirmation messages and sending reply 
> but Mailman
> just do
> nothing, and my email still exists as "pending" one.  As admin, I can
> easily subscribe
> any email address through the web.  However, nobody is able 
> to post to the
> list - 
> Mailman just do nothing with a messages.  Can you please 
> advise me what
> should I look
> at to fix this?  Thanks.

Have you checked if the mails are maybe on hold?
You can check this through the webinterface...

Also checkout the local MTA logfiles to see if messages get sent.
--
Enriko Groen, Hosting manager
--------------------------------------------------------
netivity bv   www.netivity.nl   enriko.groen at netivity.nl
038 - 850 1000   van nagellstraat 4      8011 eb  zwolle
--------------------------------------------------------
 



From barry at digicool.com  Wed Jun 27 17:55:18 2001
From: barry at digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 11:55:18 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Fixing subject lines
References: <3B393D57.5F576685@nleaudio.com>
Message-ID: <15162.486.263255.675905@anthem.wooz.org>

>>>>> "B" == Bob  <bob at nleaudio.com> writes:

    B> I've noticed weird font/character tags popping up in my digest
    B> subject lines quite a bit recently.  Is there a way to fix /
    B> filter this, at least for the digests?  Example:

    B>   36. Alternative Audio Interfaces for Notebook Computers
    B> (David Harris) 37. Re: NY Times article
    B> (=?iso-8859-1?Q?SurgeX=AE?= AC Power Products)

    B> Would be really nice to delete all the = stuff and related
    B> junk, stripping it down to plain ascii.

If those were in a real Subject: header, and you had a sophisticated
enough MUA, you'd see those characters in the proper charset.  I
wouldn't expect many MUAs recognize RFC 2047 encoding in the body of a
message.

At some point, Mailman should probably decode those characters and add
them decoded to the subject headers, although there may be trouble
with content-transfer-encodings and such.

-Barry



From ppp at vsnl.com  Wed Jun 27 18:01:04 2001
From: ppp at vsnl.com (PPPindia)
Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 21:31:04 +0530
Subject: [Mailman-Users] OT: Formmail exploit
Message-ID: <3B3A0340.B602A044@vsnl.com>

OFF-TOPIC: Formmail script is being used as spam server.
I am sure many webmasters in this list will appreciate this news.
http://www.securitywatch.com/newsforward/default.asp?AID=8288

regards
k.samy
+--------------------------------------------------------+
PPPshar- Internet Connection Sharing software
netMailshar -Virus-free Internet & Intranet mailing
MailAssistant - Speaking Email Notifier
GetAgain - resume interrupted downloads.
FREE DOWNLOAD http://www.pppinfotech.com
+--------------------------------------------------------+



From devdas at worldgatein.net  Wed Jun 27 19:08:11 2001
From: devdas at worldgatein.net (Devdas Bhagat)
Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 22:38:11 +0530
Subject: [Mailman-Users] OT: Formmail exploit
In-Reply-To: <3B3A0340.B602A044@vsnl.com>
References: <3B3A0340.B602A044@vsnl.com>
Message-ID: <01062722434503.02513@office.interoffice>

On Wed, 27 Jun 2001, PPPindia spewed into the ether:
> OFF-TOPIC: Formmail script is being used as spam server.
> I am sure many webmasters in this list will appreciate this news.
> http://www.securitywatch.com/newsforward/default.asp?AID=8288
Fixed version is available already. This is a very old news item for
those who monitor Bugtraq. 

Devdas Bhagat
--
In war it is not men, but the man who counts.
		-- Napoleon



From ppp at vsnl.com  Wed Jun 27 19:04:04 2001
From: ppp at vsnl.com (PPPindia)
Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 22:34:04 +0530
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: OT: Formmail exploit
References: <3B3A0340.B602A044@vsnl.com> <01062722434503.02513@office.interoffice>
Message-ID: <3B3A1204.94BCA6AA@vsnl.com>

Actually the news item that i mentioned talks about the fix
posted in Bugtraq as well. Did you read the article in securitywatch
link ?

hope this clarifies.
B.Kandasamy

Devdas Bhagat wrote:
> 
> On Wed, 27 Jun 2001, PPPindia spewed into the ether:
> > OFF-TOPIC: Formmail script is being used as spam server.
> > I am sure many webmasters in this list will appreciate this news.
> > http://www.securitywatch.com/newsforward/default.asp?AID=8288
> Fixed version is available already. This is a very old news item for
> those who monitor Bugtraq.
> 
> Devdas Bhagat
> --



From white at extra.dp.ua  Wed Jun 27 18:55:23 2001
From: white at extra.dp.ua ('Alexander Prohorenko')
Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 19:55:23 +0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman & Sendmail problems
In-Reply-To: <510EAC2065C0D311929200A0247252622F78C5@NETIVITY-FS>; from enriko.groen@netivity.nl on Wed, Jun 27, 2001 at 05:45:00PM +0200
References: <510EAC2065C0D311929200A0247252622F78C5@NETIVITY-FS>
Message-ID: <20010627195523.Z18734@extrasy.net>

On Wed, Jun 27, 2001 at 05:45:00PM +0200, Enriko Groen wrote:
> > Mailman just do nothing with a messages.  Can you please 
> > advise me what
> > should I look
> > at to fix this?  Thanks.
> Have you checked if the mails are maybe on hold?
> You can check this through the webinterface...

Can you point me to this?

> Also checkout the local MTA logfiles to see if messages get sent.

Yes, the message (with post/subscribe-confirm) are being recieved and
piped to mailman and then nothing happens.

-- 
Alexander Prohorenko, Extra Solutions
http://www.extrasy.net/solutions
"Good day to be alive, sir"



From white at extrasy.net  Wed Jun 27 19:25:09 2001
From: white at extrasy.net (Alexander Prohorenko)
Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 20:25:09 +0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: Mailman & Sendmail problems
In-Reply-To: <3B39DAC4.17299AD0@extra.dp.ua>; from white@extra.dp.ua on Wed, Jun 27, 2001 at 04:08:20PM +0300
References: <3B39DAC4.17299AD0@extra.dp.ua>
Message-ID: <20010627202509.F18734@extrasy.net>

On Wed, Jun 27, 2001 at 04:08:20PM +0300, Alexander Prohorenko wrote:
> I've got a problem working Mailman.  I've installed it properly, everything
> works,
> but nobody can post/subscribe to the list.  Ie, I'm subscribing my email
> through the
> web, I'm recieveing a confirmation messages and sending reply but Mailman
> just do
> nothing, and my email still exists as "pending" one.  As admin, I can
> easily subscribe
> any email address through the web.  However, nobody is able to post to the
> list - 
> Mailman just do nothing with a messages.  Can you please advise me what
> should I look
> at to fix this?  Thanks.

The subsciptions are pending, but isn't being processed.

# ../bin/dumpdb pending_subscriptions.db
{   149908: ('white at onyx.extra.dp.ua', '1', 0, 993587308),
    820308: ('white at network-lynx.net', '1', 0, 993586995),
    'lastculltime': 993586995}


-- 
Alexander Prohorenko, Extra Solutions
http://www.extrasy.net/solutions
"Good day to be alive, sir"



From techgrrl at beeze.com  Wed Jun 27 21:43:20 2001
From: techgrrl at beeze.com (Sarah K. Miller)
Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 12:43:20 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Optimizing configuration
Message-ID: <01d301c0ff41$6bae3530$0200010a@home.beeze.com>

Is there anything special we can do to optimize our Mailman/Python installation? We're running Solaris with 256M of RAM, but Python is regularly hogging 75%+ of system resources. To say this is slowing things down is an understatement. Are there any configuration changes we can make that will cause Python to use less memory and run more efficiently?

 -- Sarah




From mislam at uillinois.edu  Wed Jun 27 22:12:20 2001
From: mislam at uillinois.edu (Islam, Sharif)
Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 15:12:20 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Apache configuration
Message-ID: <3D285CB805FDD311B1C700D0B720E04D02B69DAB@aitsmail.aiss.uic.edu>

I believe this question was answered several times. I searched the archive
and tried everything. I am running bsd 2.8. Just installed mailman 2.0.5.
Everthing works fine. I can create list, send message. But the web interface
doesnt work. When to go to 
http://myserver/mailman/listinfo/listname. I get page cannot be found error.

I added this lines to httpd.conf. Any help will be great!. thanks


ScriptAlias /mailman/       "$home/mailman/cgi-bin/"
  
<Directory /home/mailman/cgi-bin/>
    AllowOverride None
    Options ExecCGI
    Order allow,deny
    Allow from all
</Directory>
  Alias /pipermail/ "$home/mailman/archives/public/"



From luser at ahab.com  Wed Jun 27 22:58:58 2001
From: luser at ahab.com (JT)
Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 16:58:58 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Apache configuration
In-Reply-To: <3D285CB805FDD311B1C700D0B720E04D02B69DAB@aitsmail.aiss.uic.edu>; from mislam@uillinois.edu on Wed, Jun 27, 2001 at 03:12:20PM -0500
References: <3D285CB805FDD311B1C700D0B720E04D02B69DAB@aitsmail.aiss.uic.edu>
Message-ID: <20010627165858.Q319@zed.unbeat.com>

Hmm... I'm guessing that $home is either nothing (e.g. should be $HOME) or
else is home for "nobody", e.g. /nonexistent.  Try changing it to
/home/mailman/cgi-bin.  Also, check apache's error log, where "Not found"
stuff gets logged with the exact path that apache is looking for...

On Wed, Jun 27, 2001 at 03:12:20PM -0500, Islam, Sharif wrote:
> I believe this question was answered several times. I searched the archive
> and tried everything. I am running bsd 2.8. Just installed mailman 2.0.5.
> Everthing works fine. I can create list, send message. But the web interface
> doesnt work. When to go to 
> http://myserver/mailman/listinfo/listname. I get page cannot be found error.
> 
> I added this lines to httpd.conf. Any help will be great!. thanks
> 
> 
> ScriptAlias /mailman/       "$home/mailman/cgi-bin/"
>   
> <Directory /home/mailman/cgi-bin/>
>     AllowOverride None
>     Options ExecCGI
>     Order allow,deny
>     Allow from all
> </Directory>
>   Alias /pipermail/ "$home/mailman/archives/public/"
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users maillist  -  Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users



From mislam at uillinois.edu  Wed Jun 27 23:02:24 2001
From: mislam at uillinois.edu (Islam, Sharif)
Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 16:02:24 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Apache configuration
Message-ID: <3D285CB805FDD311B1C700D0B720E04D02B69DAC@aitsmail.aiss.uic.edu>

Thank YOU :) , that was really stupid of me. I cant belive i wasted an hour.
oh what the hell , it works !! 


-----Original Message-----
From: JT [mailto:luser at ahab.com]
Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2001 3:59 PM
To: Islam, Sharif
Cc: mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Apache configuration


Hmm... I'm guessing that $home is either nothing (e.g. should be $HOME) or
else is home for "nobody", e.g. /nonexistent.  Try changing it to
/home/mailman/cgi-bin.  Also, check apache's error log, where "Not found"
stuff gets logged with the exact path that apache is looking for...

On Wed, Jun 27, 2001 at 03:12:20PM -0500, Islam, Sharif wrote:
> I believe this question was answered several times. I searched the archive
> and tried everything. I am running bsd 2.8. Just installed mailman 2.0.5.
> Everthing works fine. I can create list, send message. But the web
interface
> doesnt work. When to go to 
> http://myserver/mailman/listinfo/listname. I get page cannot be found
error.
> 
> I added this lines to httpd.conf. Any help will be great!. thanks
> 
> 
> ScriptAlias /mailman/       "$home/mailman/cgi-bin/"
>   
> <Directory /home/mailman/cgi-bin/>
>     AllowOverride None
>     Options ExecCGI
>     Order allow,deny
>     Allow from all
> </Directory>
>   Alias /pipermail/ "$home/mailman/archives/public/"
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users maillist  -  Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users

------------------------------------------------------
Mailman-Users maillist  -  Mailman-Users at python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users



From white at extrasy.net  Wed Jun 27 20:54:05 2001
From: white at extrasy.net (Alexander Prohorenko)
Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 21:54:05 +0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: Mailman & Sendmail problems
In-Reply-To: <3B39DAC4.17299AD0@extra.dp.ua>; from white@extra.dp.ua on Wed, Jun 27, 2001 at 04:08:20PM +0300
References: <3B39DAC4.17299AD0@extra.dp.ua>
Message-ID: <20010627215405.F6190@extrasy.net>

On Wed, Jun 27, 2001 at 04:08:20PM +0300, Alexander Prohorenko wrote:
> Mailman just do nothing with a messages.  Can you please advise me what
> should I look
> at to fix this?  Thanks.

I've already solved this problem.  That was my fault, my missconfiguration.

Now the question is - the posts/subscribes are being processed only
every minute, not often.  So if the message comes at 01:01, it'll be
visible only at 02:00.  Are there any way to make the messages processing
immediate?

Thanks.

-- 
Alexander Prohorenko, Extra Solutions
http://www.extrasy.net/solutions
"Good day to be alive, sir"



From alaric at babcom.com  Wed Jun 27 23:39:52 2001
From: alaric at babcom.com (Phil Stracchino)
Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 14:39:52 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Apache configuration
In-Reply-To: <3D285CB805FDD311B1C700D0B720E04D02B69DAB@aitsmail.aiss.uic.edu>; from mislam@uillinois.edu on Wed, Jun 27, 2001 at 03:12:20PM -0500
References: <3D285CB805FDD311B1C700D0B720E04D02B69DAB@aitsmail.aiss.uic.edu>
Message-ID: <20010627143952.A12140@babylon5.babcom.com>

On Wed, Jun 27, 2001 at 03:12:20PM -0500, Islam, Sharif wrote:
> I added this lines to httpd.conf. Any help will be great!. thanks
> 
> 
> ScriptAlias /mailman/       "$home/mailman/cgi-bin/"
>   
> <Directory /home/mailman/cgi-bin/>
>     AllowOverride None
>     Options ExecCGI
>     Order allow,deny
>     Allow from all
> </Directory>
>   Alias /pipermail/ "$home/mailman/archives/public/"


Try adding:

<Location /mailman/>
    SetHandler cgi-script
</Location>


I had the same problem, and this worked for me.  (Except for my archives,
which I still can't figure out.)


-- 
 Linux Now!   ..........Because friends don't let friends use Microsoft.
 phil stracchino   --   the renaissance man   --   mystic zen biker geek
        alaric at babcom.com                halmayne at sourceforge.net
   2000 CBR929RR, 1991 VFR750F3 (foully murdered), 1986 VF500F (sold)



From khan at arcom.com.au  Thu Jun 28 05:58:20 2001
From: khan at arcom.com.au (Kevin Hancock)
Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 13:28:20 +0930
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman stopped working?
Message-ID: <017f01c0ff86$932a5720$0300a8c0@mobile>

Hi

I have just installed mailman and it was working Ok. I was posting to a list
and getting replies. I added some more lists and now mailman not work.

Sendmail logs indicate the message was sent.

Jun 28 13:11:00 mailman sendmail[5635]: NAA05634:
to="|/usr/local/apache/mailman/mail/mailman-wrapper post test",
delay=00:00:01, xdelay=00:00:00, mailer=prog, stat=Sent

But NOTHING else happens????????

Mailman logs nothing no mail gets sent, no message sent to the administrator
(me) ...nada?

This list worked this morning. All I have changed is the aliases file but
that appears to be working fine.

How do I make mailman tell me what is happening and where should I look.

So far I like this prog and am migrating from majordomo but this has me
baffled cause there is no indication at all what is happening.

Thanks

Kevin




From enriko.groen at netivity.nl  Thu Jun 28 08:54:08 2001
From: enriko.groen at netivity.nl (Enriko Groen)
Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 08:54:08 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman & Sendmail problems
Message-ID: <510EAC2065C0D311929200A0247252622F78C8@NETIVITY-FS>


> -----Original Message-----
> From: 'Alexander Prohorenko' [mailto:white at extra.dp.ua]
> Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2001 18:55

> On Wed, Jun 27, 2001 at 05:45:00PM +0200, Enriko Groen wrote:
> > > Mailman just do nothing with a messages.  Can you please 
> > > advise me what
> > > should I look
> > > at to fix this?  Thanks.
> > Have you checked if the mails are maybe on hold?
> > You can check this through the webinterface...
> 
> Can you point me to this?

Oh dear...
Have you read the documentation?
The Mailman webinterface is one of the bare essentials. 
Go to http://<fill.in.your.server>/mailman/admin to enter the webinterface.
You should then go to the lists interface (login with password) and check
for any pending subscriptions and emails.
--
Enriko Groen, Hosting manager
--------------------------------------------------------
netivity bv   www.netivity.nl   enriko.groen at netivity.nl
038 - 850 1000   van nagellstraat 4      8011 eb  zwolle
--------------------------------------------------------
 



From vizisz at freemail.hu  Thu Jun 28 13:10:36 2001
From: vizisz at freemail.hu (Vizi Szilard)
Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 13:10:36 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman stopped working?
In-Reply-To: <017f01c0ff86$932a5720$0300a8c0@mobile>; from khan@arcom.com.au on Thu, Jun 28, 2001 at 01:28:20PM +0930
References: <017f01c0ff86$932a5720$0300a8c0@mobile>
Message-ID: <20010628131035.A2774@freemail.hu>

Hello,

Kevin Hancock wrote:
> I have just installed mailman and it was working Ok. I was posting to a list
> and getting replies. I added some more lists and now mailman not work.
> 
> Mailman logs nothing no mail gets sent, no message sent to the administrator
> (me) ...nada?
Take a look at the /var/log/mail/info or error files, maybe that would
help you out.

Did you run 'newaliases' after you modified /etc/aliases?
 
Szilard Vizi
-------------
mailto:vizisz at freemail.hu             UIN:10676592



From brett at millerconsultants.net  Thu Jun 28 14:51:04 2001
From: brett at millerconsultants.net (Brett Miller)
Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 08:51:04 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] maillists for multiple domains on the same machine??
Message-ID: <DFEAKDJHLCJJDNFJHHAJMEJCCHAA.brett@millerconsultants.net>

Can mailman be configured to handle lists for more than 1 domain?? Thank
you for any help or assistance you could give.


Thanks

Brett
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From justin at iago.org  Thu Jun 28 16:19:34 2001
From: justin at iago.org (Justin Sheehy)
Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 10:19:34 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] thttpd?
Message-ID: <x7u210elft.fsf@ra.iago.org>

Hello,

A quick scan of the archives and the FAQ didn't turn anything up, so I
thought I'd ask this here.

Is anyone known to be using Mailman with thttpd?  If so, are there any
known gotchas or things to look out for?  I can't think of a reason
why it wouldn't work, but since the Mailman docs seem to assume
Apache, I figured that it was worth asking before I went ahead and set
up a listserver using thttpd/Mailman.

Thanks.

-Justin

 





From cipher at eschatek.com  Thu Jun 28 17:14:48 2001
From: cipher at eschatek.com (J B Bell)
Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 08:14:48 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] maillists for multiple domains on the same machine??
In-Reply-To: <DFEAKDJHLCJJDNFJHHAJMEJCCHAA.brett@millerconsultants.net>; from brett@millerconsultants.net on Thu, Jun 28, 2001 at 08:51:04AM -0400
References: <DFEAKDJHLCJJDNFJHHAJMEJCCHAA.brett@millerconsultants.net>
Message-ID: <20010628081448.A89659@eschatek.com>

On Thu, Jun 28, 2001 at 08:51:04AM -0400, Brett Miller wrote:
> Can mailman be configured to handle lists for more than 1 domain?? Thank
> you for any help or assistance you could give.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Brett

Yes.

First, if you want the web pages to use the extra domains you have, they 
will need to have virtual servers set up in your webserver.  Setting that
up is beyond the scope of this list.  You will need the Mailman config
section in each <VirtualHost></VirtualHost> entry for it to show up properly.

After you have set up the list in the usual way, change the last two
settings in the Administration--General Options screen.  Be particularly
careful changing the Base URL option--you can lock yourself out here.

--JB



From y.nugroho at student.umist.ac.uk  Thu Jun 28 17:55:46 2001
From: y.nugroho at student.umist.ac.uk (Yanuar Nugroho)
Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 16:55:46 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] lay-out body message
Message-ID: <00ae01c0ffea$cbc3a280$9baa5882@halls.umist.ac.uk>

Hi folks,

Is it possible to change the layout of the message body in Mailman? (e.g.
the left & right margin)
Is it also possible to insert certain text into the body but _not_ header or
footer?

Currently my mailman is running on unix-apache-sendmail configuration very
very well ...:)

-Yanuar-




From y.nugroho at student.umist.ac.uk  Thu Jun 28 17:58:33 2001
From: y.nugroho at student.umist.ac.uk (Yanuar Nugroho)
Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 16:58:33 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] archive
Message-ID: <00b601c0ffeb$2eedaea0$9baa5882@halls.umist.ac.uk>

Hi,

How is the principle of archiving in Mailman? Is it related to storing and
retrieving data when the archives are accessed thru the website?
Can mailman take a particular message in the archive and stick it to new
message to be distributed?


Yanuar




From IDoDC at aol.com  Thu Jun 28 18:16:18 2001
From: IDoDC at aol.com (IDoDC at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 12:16:18 EDT
Subject: [Mailman-Users] I fell so stupid! Can you please help me?
Message-ID: <47.d2e1db4.286cb252@aol.com>

Hi everyone,  I just set up a mailing list, subscribed myself to be on 
regular mail, got the welcome message... then sent several  tests to the list 
to see if it was operating correctly...  the test messages have never shown 
up in my mailbox or in my archives or in my owner box..  I have written my 
server and they have not responded...

What am I doing wrong??  I am used to a majordomo system, not a web system
TIA
alana

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From barry at digicool.com  Thu Jun 28 18:27:03 2001
From: barry at digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 12:27:03 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: [Mailman-Developers] archive
References: <00b601c0ffeb$2eedaea0$9baa5882@halls.umist.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <15163.23255.104834.675174@anthem.wooz.org>

>>>>> "YN" == Yanuar Nugroho <y.nugroho at student.umist.ac.uk> writes:

    YN> How is the principle of archiving in Mailman? Is it related to
    YN> storing and retrieving data when the archives are accessed
    YN> thru the website?  Can mailman take a particular message in
    YN> the archive and stick it to new message to be distributed?

Mailman is designed so that either its internal Pipermail archiver, or
an external archiver of the site's choice, can be used.  Pipermail is
pretty braindead simple: it simply creates the indices and html-ifies
the message.  It has the advantage that it's written in Python and
easily bundled for the one-stop-shopping crowd.  It has several
disadvantages though, and many serious Mailman sites use a separate
3rd party archiver instead.

IOW, it would be the backend archiver's responsibility to implement
things like thru-the-web replies.  Mailman supports direct injection
of messages from any external source (and MM2.1 will be even better in
this regard).  I'd love to see something like this added so its On The
List, but who knows when there will be time to devote to it?

Cheers,
-Barry



From barry at digicool.com  Thu Jun 28 18:28:53 2001
From: barry at digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 12:28:53 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] thttpd?
References: <x7u210elft.fsf@ra.iago.org>
Message-ID: <15163.23365.603521.747806@anthem.wooz.org>

>>>>> "JS" == Justin Sheehy <justin at iago.org> writes:

    JS> Is anyone known to be using Mailman with thttpd?  If so, are
    JS> there any known gotchas or things to look out for?  I can't
    JS> think of a reason why it wouldn't work, but since the Mailman
    JS> docs seem to assume Apache, I figured that it was worth asking
    JS> before I went ahead and set up a listserver using
    JS> thttpd/Mailman.

I've no direct experience with thttpd, but if it supports the
"standard" CGI interface, it should be fine.  If you do run into any
gotchas (or even if it works fine), let us know and I'll add some text
to the documentation.

-Barry





From justin at iago.org  Thu Jun 28 19:29:36 2001
From: justin at iago.org (Justin Sheehy)
Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 13:29:36 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] thttpd?
In-Reply-To: <15163.23365.603521.747806@anthem.wooz.org>
 (barry@digicool.com's message of "Thu, 28 Jun 2001 12:28:53 -0400")
References: <x7u210elft.fsf@ra.iago.org>
	<15163.23365.603521.747806@anthem.wooz.org>
Message-ID: <x7ofr81pj3.fsf@ra.iago.org>

barry at digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw) writes:

> I've no direct experience with thttpd, but if it supports the
> "standard" CGI interface, it should be fine.  If you do run into any
> gotchas (or even if it works fine), let us know and I'll add some text
> to the documentation.

It supports the CGI 1.1 spec.  I guess I'll just set it up and give it
a shot.  If there's anything interesting worth reporting, I will post it here.

-Justin

 




From afreyvogel at ecmarket.com  Thu Jun 28 20:21:18 2001
From: afreyvogel at ecmarket.com (Andreas Freyvogel)
Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 11:21:18 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] messages pending approval
Message-ID: <NBBBLBELCMFDEEJCEFKCKEDDCFAA.afreyvogel@ecmarket.com>

Greetings all,

I am just new with Mailman, so please bear with me. My question is this: if
someone is sending a message that requires approval, where is it set that
the administrator of that list will get an email (immediately preferably)
telling him/her that  it is waiting for their approval/denial?

I hope you understand, and thanks in advance for any assistance.

-Andreas




From claw at kanga.nu  Thu Jun 28 20:38:44 2001
From: claw at kanga.nu (claw at kanga.nu)
Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 11:38:44 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] maillists for multiple domains on the same machin e?? 
In-Reply-To: Message from Brett Miller <brett@millerconsultants.net> 
   of "Thu, 28 Jun 2001 05:51:04 PDT." <DFEAKDJHLCJJDNFJHHAJMEJCCHAA.brett@millerconsultants.net> 
References: <DFEAKDJHLCJJDNFJHHAJMEJCCHAA.brett@millerconsultants.net> 
Message-ID: <3601.993753524@2wire.com>

On Thu, 28 Jun 2001 05:51:04 -0700 
Brett Miller <brett at millerconsultants.net> wrote:

> Can mailman be configured to handle lists for more than 1 domain?? 

Yes, with the caveat that given a single installation of Mailman no
two lists may have the same name.

-- 
J C Lawrence                                       claw at kanga.nu
---------(*)                          http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/
The pressure to survive and rhetoric may make strange bedfellows



From Kevin.Jacks at port.ac.uk  Thu Jun 28 14:56:55 2001
From: Kevin.Jacks at port.ac.uk (kevin jacks)
Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 13:56:55 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Reminders
Message-ID: <E15FbLv-0003g3-00@hobbit.iso.port.ac.uk>

I wish to remind the users of my list at a set date every month, of 
action that should be taken. How do I do this within Mailman.
Many thanks,

Kevin Jacks
Administrator
Centre for Empirically Informed Social Theory (CEIST)
University of Portsmouth, Milldam, Burnaby Road
Portsmouth, PO1 3AS. UK.
Tel: +44(0)23 9284 2201
Fax: +44(0)23 9284 2224
e-mail: kevin.jacks at port.ac.uk



From cal at webmd.net  Thu Jun 28 15:01:36 2001
From: cal at webmd.net (Cal Evans)
Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 08:01:36 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] maillists for multiple domains on the same machine??
References: <DFEAKDJHLCJJDNFJHHAJMEJCCHAA.brett@millerconsultants.net>
Message-ID: <002d01c0ffd2$76b8c710$a828a8c0@corp.envoy.com>

Yes but it's not pretty. I (at someone else's suggestion) compile a separate
version for each domain on my box that needs it. (separate CRON jobs and
everything)

Cal
*
* Cal Evans
* Senior Internet Dreamer
* http://www.calevans.com
*
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brett Miller" <brett at millerconsultants.net>
To: <mailman-users at python.org>
Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2001 7:51 AM
Subject: [Mailman-Users] maillists for multiple domains on the same
machine??


> Can mailman be configured to handle lists for more than 1 domain?? Thank
> you for any help or assistance you could give.
>
>
> Thanks
>
> Brett
>




From alaric at babcom.com  Thu Jun 28 23:36:55 2001
From: alaric at babcom.com (Phil Stracchino)
Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 14:36:55 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Reminders
In-Reply-To: <E15FbLv-0003g3-00@hobbit.iso.port.ac.uk>; from Kevin.Jacks@port.ac.uk on Thu, Jun 28, 2001 at 01:56:55PM +0100
References: <E15FbLv-0003g3-00@hobbit.iso.port.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <20010628143655.A11667@babylon5.babcom.com>

On Thu, Jun 28, 2001 at 01:56:55PM +0100, kevin jacks wrote:
> I wish to remind the users of my list at a set date every month, of 
> action that should be taken. How do I do this within Mailman.
> Many thanks,


man cron.


-- 
 Linux Now!   ..........Because friends don't let friends use Microsoft.
 phil stracchino   --   the renaissance man   --   mystic zen biker geek
        alaric at babcom.com                halmayne at sourceforge.net
   2000 CBR929RR, 1991 VFR750F3 (foully murdered), 1986 VF500F (sold)



From esper at sherohman.org  Thu Jun 28 23:36:36 2001
From: esper at sherohman.org (Dave Sherohman)
Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 16:36:36 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Reminders
In-Reply-To: <E15FbLv-0003g3-00@hobbit.iso.port.ac.uk>; from Kevin.Jacks@port.ac.uk on Thu, Jun 28, 2001 at 01:56:55PM +0100
References: <E15FbLv-0003g3-00@hobbit.iso.port.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <20010628163636.L12643@sherohman.org>

On Thu, Jun 28, 2001 at 01:56:55PM +0100, kevin jacks wrote:
> I wish to remind the users of my list at a set date every month, of 
> action that should be taken. How do I do this within Mailman.

On any *nix machine of your choice (well, OK - pick one that's always on,
like, say, the mailman server), use `crontab -e` to add a line to your
crontab that looks something like

0 0 1 * * /usr/bin/mail mylist at domain.net -s "Monthly reminder" < /path/to/reminder-message.txt

Granted, it's not really a mailman-based solution, but it's probably the most
straightforward way to do it.

-- 
That's not gibberish...  It's Linux. - Byers, The Lone Gunmen
Geek Code 3.12:  GCS d? s+: a C++ UL++++$ P++>+++ L+++>++++ E- W--(++) N+
o+ !K w--- O M- V? PS+ PE Y+ PGP t 5++ X+ R++ tv+ b+ DI++++ D G e* h r y+



From dmick at utopia.West.Sun.COM  Thu Jun 28 23:52:18 2001
From: dmick at utopia.West.Sun.COM (Dan Mick)
Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 14:52:18 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] messages pending approval
Message-ID: <200106282152.OAA20185@utopia.West.Sun.COM>

> I am just new with Mailman, 

Then I hope you've paged through every single option on the mailing
list administration webpage so you know what's there.  If you had,
you'd know the answer to this question:

> so please bear with me. My question is this: if
> someone is sending a message that requires approval, where is it set that
> the administrator of that list will get an email (immediately preferably)
> telling him/her that  it is waiting for their approval/denial?

	General options

	Should administrator get immediate notice of new requests, as
	well as daily notices about collected ones?

Help text says:

	admin_immed_notify (general): Should administrator get
	immediate notice of new requests, as well as daily notices
	about collected ones?

	List admins are sent daily reminders of pending admin
	approval requests, like subscriptions to a moderated list or
	postings that are being held for one reason or another.
	Setting this option causes notices to be sent immediately on
	the arrival of new requests, as well.





From lists at xpec.com  Fri Jun 29 02:01:41 2001
From: lists at xpec.com (J.D. Bronson)
Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 19:01:41 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Newbie help with news2email
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010628185840.00a759f0@sparc-central.com>

Hello....

I have configured mailman and since I can run groups and everything seems 
to be working correctly, i wanted to know if there is a web site out there 
that can explain how to do this following thing:

I want to setup mailman so that a user can subscribe to a usenet group and 
have it delivered via mailman to their personal email and hence not have to 
'read' news using a news reader!

I know this is possible, but I cannot find any docs on how to do it.

I know the newserver IP/name and it is not on the same machine as mailman 
is running on.

One of the groups I am interested in for example is:

Newsgroups: comp.unix.solaris

Any help for this 'new' guy would be appreciated. Since I have come this 
far on my own, I dont think that I am too far off!

TIA for any help offered.





-- 
J.D. Bronson
Aurora Health Care
Information Systems
Milwaukee Wisconsin USA
Main Office: 414.978.8282




From afreyvogel at ecmarket.com  Fri Jun 29 02:04:12 2001
From: afreyvogel at ecmarket.com (Andreas Freyvogel)
Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 17:04:12 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] messages pending approval
In-Reply-To: <200106282152.OAA20185@utopia.West.Sun.COM>
Message-ID: <DCENKNILIJGHAHNAAFFMMECHCKAA.afreyvogel@ecmarket.com>

thanks Dan,

I do have that option checked off as "yes" but for some reason I am not
receiving any notifications. Could there be something else that I am
missing?

-----Original Message-----
From: Dan Mick [mailto:dmick at utopia.West.Sun.COM]
Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2001 2:52 PM
To: mailman-users at python.org; afreyvogel at ecmarket.com
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] messages pending approval



> I am just new with Mailman,

Then I hope you've paged through every single option on the mailing
list administration webpage so you know what's there.  If you had,
you'd know the answer to this question:

> so please bear with me. My question is this: if
> someone is sending a message that requires approval, where is it set that
> the administrator of that list will get an email (immediately preferably)
> telling him/her that  it is waiting for their approval/denial?

	General options

	Should administrator get immediate notice of new requests, as
	well as daily notices about collected ones?

Help text says:

	admin_immed_notify (general): Should administrator get
	immediate notice of new requests, as well as daily notices
	about collected ones?

	List admins are sent daily reminders of pending admin
	approval requests, like subscriptions to a moderated list or
	postings that are being held for one reason or another.
	Setting this option causes notices to be sent immediately on
	the arrival of new requests, as well.







From jwblist at olympus.net  Fri Jun 29 04:20:23 2001
From: jwblist at olympus.net (John W Baxter)
Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 19:20:23 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] messages pending approval
In-Reply-To: <DCENKNILIJGHAHNAAFFMMECHCKAA.afreyvogel@ecmarket.com>
References: <DCENKNILIJGHAHNAAFFMMECHCKAA.afreyvogel@ecmarket.com>
Message-ID: <p05101004b761931b2aeb@[207.149.192.229]>

At 17:04 -0700 6/28/2001, Andreas Freyvogel wrote:
>I do have that option checked off as "yes" but for some reason I am not
>receiving any notifications. Could there be something else that I am
>missing?

If you are also not receiving the once-per-day notifications, then mailman
is unable to send mail to you as the list administrator.  There could be an
alias in the way, or some other problem.  Step one would seem to be to
verify that you can send a message to the address listed in
   General Options-->The list admin's email address....

Having a role account listed there is fine (and probably better than a
personal address)...having it a role account which aliases (or Exim magic)
send back to Mailman is not (learned the hard way here on a test list).

   --John

-- 
John Baxter   jwblist at olympus.net      Port Ludlow, WA, USA



From justin at iago.org  Fri Jun 29 05:59:31 2001
From: justin at iago.org (Justin Sheehy)
Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 23:59:31 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] thttpd?
References: <x7u210elft.fsf@ra.iago.org>
	<15163.23365.603521.747806@anthem.wooz.org>
Message-ID: <x7y9qcylzw.fsf@ra.iago.org>

barry at digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw) writes:

> I've no direct experience with thttpd, but if it supports the
> "standard" CGI interface, it should be fine.  If you do run into any
> gotchas (or even if it works fine), let us know and I'll add some text
> to the documentation.

So, it looks like there's more required than the standard CGI interface.

The Apache "ScriptAlias" directive and its relations, which Mailman
seems to assume will be in operation, cause some other interesting behavior.

If you are using Apache and follow the INSTALL, you end up doing
something like:

ScriptAlias   /mailman/       /home/mailman/cgi-bin/

This has more of an effect than simply allowing CGI scripts to run
from that directory.  It also does some magic with the URLs that match
that pattern.  If one tries to GET, say, /mailman/listinfo/somelist,
Apache does not try to run /home/mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo/somelist,
but instead runs /home/mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo, and provides the rest
of the URL ("somelist") to /home/mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo as an argument.

I don't believe that this is part of the CGI spec in any way.

The use of this behavior makes Mailman unable to work on a simple
webserver that correctly implements CGI.

Based on a quick look at both pieces of software, I don't see a simple
way to resolve this, which is really unfortunate.

Has anyone ever reported success running mailman on a webserver other
than Apache (which had not simply copied Apache's ScriptAlias behavior)?

I'm going to do a bit more investigating before I give up, in any case.

-Justin

 




From barry at digicool.com  Fri Jun 29 06:47:12 2001
From: barry at digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 00:47:12 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Optimizing configuration
References: <01d301c0ff41$6bae3530$0200010a@home.beeze.com>
Message-ID: <15164.2128.158754.914213@anthem.wooz.org>

>>>>> "SKM" == Sarah K Miller <techgrrl at beeze.com> writes:

    SKM> Is there anything special we can do to optimize our
    SKM> Mailman/Python installation? We're running Solaris with 256M
    SKM> of RAM, but Python is regularly hogging 75%+ of system
    SKM> resources. To say this is slowing things down is an
    SKM> understatement. Are there any configuration changes we can
    SKM> make that will cause Python to use less memory and run more
    SKM> efficiently?

Are you sure it's Python that's the culprit?  We really need to know
more about your environment.  What MTA (and version)?  What version of
Python?  Did you build it from scratch or install a binary?  What are
the sizes of messages, traffic, number of lists, number of
subscribers, etc.?  What version of Mailman? ;)

-Barry



From barry at digicool.com  Fri Jun 29 06:53:21 2001
From: barry at digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 00:53:21 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: Mailman & Sendmail problems
References: <3B39DAC4.17299AD0@extra.dp.ua>
	<20010627215405.F6190@extrasy.net>
Message-ID: <15164.2497.261537.7759@anthem.wooz.org>

>>>>> "AP" == Alexander Prohorenko <white at extrasy.net> writes:

    AP> Now the question is - the posts/subscribes are being processed
    AP> only every minute, not often.  So if the message comes at
    AP> 01:01, it'll be visible only at 02:00.  Are there any way to
    AP> make the messages processing immediate?

In MM2.0.x, there is a cron-initiated qrunner process that wakes up
every minute and processes whatever's in the queue until completion.
Then it exits and won't run again until the next cron interval (which
has a granularity of one minute).

In MM2.1, the qrunner subsystem has been largely redesigned, so that
there is a long running process (or several) that turn around and
re-process the queue immediately.  So new messages will probably get
delivered much sooner.  I contend though that for email it doesn't
really matter much as long as the messages are processed "fast
enough".  I.e. except perhaps on an intranet, nobody expects email to
be immediately delivered from sender to recipient.

(Side note: in MM2.1 qrunner will sleep for one minute if it finds
that there are no messages in its queue waiting to be processed.  As
long as the queue has messages in it though, it won't sleep.)

-Barry



From chuqui at plaidworks.com  Fri Jun 29 07:01:37 2001
From: chuqui at plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach)
Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 22:01:37 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: Mailman & Sendmail problems
In-Reply-To: <15164.2497.261537.7759@anthem.wooz.org>
Message-ID: <200106290453.f5T4r9h00681@plaidworks.com>

On Thursday, June 28, 2001, at 09:53 PM, Barry A. Warsaw wrote:

>
>>>>>> "AP" == Alexander Prohorenko <white at extrasy.net> writes:
>
>     AP> Now the question is - the posts/subscribes are being processed
>     AP> only every minute, not often.  So if the message comes at
>     AP> 01:01, it'll be visible only at 02:00.

> In MM2.0.x, there is a cron-initiated qrunner process that wakes up
> every minute

I dunno if this is a typo on Alex's part, but what he said was if it 
comes in at 1:01, it isn't processed until 2:00.

That implies his qrunner is running hourly instead of every minute. Is 
that what you meant, Alex? If so, then your cron file's been modified 
and needs to be fixed, since it ought to run every minute. In reality, 
unless mailman is busy processing something else, something that comes 
in at 1:01 should be processed at 1:02, not 2:00.

Now, if you're really saying waiting as long as one whole minute (grin) 
is too long, then I'd suggest you cut out the caffeine, not fix 
Mailman...

--
Chuq Von Rospach, Internet Gnome <http://www.chuqui.com>
[<chuqui at plaidworks.com> = <me at chuqui.com> = <chuq at apple.com>]
Yes, yes, I've finally finished my home page. Lucky you.

Always look away from the obvious answers, because if you don't find
a better one, you can always go back to them on short notice.





From barry at digicool.com  Fri Jun 29 07:14:56 2001
From: barry at digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 01:14:56 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: Mailman & Sendmail problems
References: <15164.2497.261537.7759@anthem.wooz.org>
	<200106290453.f5T4r9h00681@plaidworks.com>
Message-ID: <15164.3792.38182.379708@anthem.wooz.org>

>>>>> "CVR" == Chuq Von Rospach <chuqui at plaidworks.com> writes:

    CVR> I dunno if this is a typo on Alex's part, but what he said
    CVR> was if it comes in at 1:01, it isn't processed until 2:00.

Oops, chalk that up to not believing what I was seeing!

    CVR> Now, if you're really saying waiting as long as one whole
    CVR> minute (grin) is too long, then I'd suggest you cut out the
    CVR> caffeine, not fix Mailman...

LOL!
-Barry



From barry at digicool.com  Fri Jun 29 07:30:49 2001
From: barry at digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 01:30:49 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] thttpd?
References: <x7u210elft.fsf@ra.iago.org>
	<15163.23365.603521.747806@anthem.wooz.org>
	<x7y9qcylzw.fsf@ra.iago.org>
Message-ID: <15164.4745.474740.780102@anthem.wooz.org>

>>>>> "JS" == Justin Sheehy <justin at iago.org> writes:

    JS> The Apache "ScriptAlias" directive and its relations, which
    JS> Mailman seems to assume will be in operation, cause some other
    JS> interesting behavior.

    JS> If you are using Apache and follow the INSTALL, you end up
    JS> doing something like:

    JS> ScriptAlias /mailman/ /home/mailman/cgi-bin/

    JS> This has more of an effect than simply allowing CGI scripts to
    JS> run from that directory.  It also does some magic with the
    JS> URLs that match that pattern.  If one tries to GET, say,
    JS> /mailman/listinfo/somelist, Apache does not try to run
    JS> /home/mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo/somelist, but instead runs
    JS> /home/mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo, and provides the rest of the
    JS> URL ("somelist") to /home/mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo as an
    JS> argument.

    JS> I don't believe that this is part of the CGI spec in any way.

Really?  I think the CGI/1.1 "spec" (which really never got past draft
status) description of SCRIPT_NAME and PATH_INFO definitely allow for
Apache's behavior here.  Although SCRIPT_NAME's calculation is
technically "implementation dependent", PATH_INFO is required to
contain the url portion from SCRIPT_NAME up to any QUERY_STRING.  I
don't see anything in a quick scan of the CGI/1.2 spec that
contradicts this either.

What does thttpd actually set SCRIPT_NAME and PATH_INFO to when given
a url like http://mysite.com/mailman/listinfo/mylist?

    JS> The use of this behavior makes Mailman unable to work on a
    JS> simple webserver that correctly implements CGI.

I disagree.  Plus if the CGI/1.1 spec is supposed to "define current
practice", I'd actually be floored if it didn't jive with Apache's
behavior, given that it's been the most popular web server for years.

-Barry



From bob at nleaudio.com  Fri Jun 29 07:58:34 2001
From: bob at nleaudio.com (Bob Puff@NLE)
Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 01:58:34 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: Mailman & Sendmail problems
References: <E15FqJ3-0005Ga-00@mail.python.org>
Message-ID: <3B3C190A.EB7BF1ED@nleaudio.com>

Hey Barry,

Thanks for the info on how 2.1's "cron" works... So does it still wait until the next minute to check for messages if it isn't currently processing any, or do they get processed immediately?

Bob



From barry at digicool.com  Fri Jun 29 08:08:53 2001
From: barry at digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 02:08:53 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: Mailman & Sendmail problems
References: <15164.2497.261537.7759@anthem.wooz.org>
	<200106290453.f5T4r9h00681@plaidworks.com>
	<20010629084826.B3099@extrasy.net>
Message-ID: <15164.7029.542898.683934@anthem.wooz.org>

>>>>> "AP" == Alexander Prohorenko <white at extrasy.net> writes:

    AP> I'm not taking caffeine :) Anyway, thanks for advise.
    AP> Actually, I'm just transferring from majordomo to mailman, and
    AP> majordomo processes input queue almost immediatly.  I just
    AP> wanted the same effect for mailman.

MM2.1. :)

-Barry



From chuqui at plaidworks.com  Fri Jun 29 08:37:20 2001
From: chuqui at plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach)
Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 23:37:20 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: Mailman & Sendmail problems
In-Reply-To: <20010629084826.B3099@extrasy.net>
Message-ID: <200106290628.f5T6Sqh01879@plaidworks.com>

On Thursday, June 28, 2001, at 10:48 PM, Alexander Prohorenko wrote:

> I'm not taking caffeine :)  Anyway, thanks for advise.
> Actually, I'm just transferring from majordomo to mailman, and majordomo
> processes input queue almost immediatly.  I just wanted the same
> effect for mailman.
>

It's a teeny bit slower, but a lot better on the system. Do you know 
what happens when you have 15 messages hit majordomo at about the same 
time? All 15 go off at once. Mailman is a little slower on a 
close-to-idle system -- but scales MUCH better than majordomo when it 
gets busy. 2.1 will actually improve this further, but majordomo has a 
bad tendency to implode a system if you get a burst of content and 
haven't tuned the system right. Mailman's designed to avoid that, and 
what you're seeing is one of the tradeoff's needed to avoid that kind of 
peak load resource crisis.



--
Chuq Von Rospach, Internet Gnome <http://www.chuqui.com>
[<chuqui at plaidworks.com> = <me at chuqui.com> = <chuq at apple.com>]
Yes, yes, I've finally finished my home page. Lucky you.

You know, I Remember When I Used To Speak In Capitals, Too. It's 
addictive.
It also encourages people to poke sticks at you. Justifiably. (chuq, 
1992)



From alragom at yahoo.com  Fri Jun 29 09:16:30 2001
From: alragom at yahoo.com (Firas R.)
Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 03:16:30 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Nothing happens !
Message-ID: <HPELKDHLAMAPOAHIGGNCCEGECBAA.alragom@yahoo.com>

Hi everyone,

This is my first attempt at setting up a mailing list manager, so I
downloaded mailman-2.0.5-1.i386.rpm  off of rpmfind.net and followed these
instructions that were posted there :

* run /usr/lib/mailman/bin/mmsitepass  to create the mailman administrator
password

* edit /usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/mm_cfg.py  to customize mailman's
configuration for your site

* set "DAEMON=yes" in /etc/sysconfig/sendmail to  configure sendmail, and
add

* add these lines:
  ScriptAlias /mailman/ /usr/lib/mailman/cgi-bin/
  Alias /pipermail/ /var/mailman/archives/public/
  <Directory /var/mailman/archives>
    Options +FollowSymlinks
  </Directory>

  to /etc/httpd/conf/httpd.conf to configure your web server.

I then added  crontab.in 's contents to mailman's crontab
and added these aliases to /etc/aliases :

mailman: myemail at myemail.com
mailman-owner: mailman

and ran 'newaliases'

Then I created the site password using  'mmsitepass'  and created a new list
'test' using 'newlist', entered the proper info
Then I added these aliases to /etc/aliases  :

test:                         "/usr/lib/mailman/mail/wrapper post test"
test-admin:              "/usr/lib/mailman/mail/wrapper mailowner test"
test-request:            "/usr/lib/mailman/mail/wrapper mailcmd test"
test-owner:              test-admin

So after doing all of that , nothing happens ! I don't get an e-mail, and
the only clue I've found is the following error from ( /var/mailman/post ):

Jun 30 02:56:52 2001 (11522) post to test from mailman-owner at ourserver.com,
size=1329, 1 failures

I checked the log files, cron is running everything set for mailman without
any errors
But strange enough, there isn't anything in maillog  for mailman ?!

PLEASE HELP !!

We're running  RedHat 6.1  kernel 2.2.16-3   sendmail-8.9.3-15

Thanks in advance,
Firas





_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com




From vizisz at freemail.hu  Fri Jun 29 09:28:08 2001
From: vizisz at freemail.hu (Vizi Szilard)
Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 09:28:08 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: I fell so stupid! Can you please help me?
In-Reply-To: <47.d2e1db4.286cb252@aol.com>; from IDoDC@aol.com on Thu, Jun 28, 2001 at 12:16:18PM -0400
References: <47.d2e1db4.286cb252@aol.com>
Message-ID: <20010629092808.A5572@freemail.hu>

Hello,

IDoDC at aol.com wrote:
> Hi everyone,  I just set up a mailing list, subscribed myself to be on 
> regular mail, got the welcome message... then sent several  tests to the list 
This means that the Mailman is working correctly with the given MTA.
That is good.

> to see if it was operating correctly...  the test messages have never shown 
> up in my mailbox or in my archives or in my owner box..  I have written my 
> server and they have not responded...
This could not be easily solve, we need more information form the log files.
Take a look at and search any unusual in the following files:
 /var/log/mail/info or error /var/log/syslog  or /home/mailman/logs/error

But maybe the following will help you:
Maybe you sent that message to a wrong address, maybe you just misstyped
a letter. But in this case the mail bounced with an error message saying
"user unknown". But in a very rare case the user could be a real one.

Second chance:
Maybe your message is waiting for admin approval. This can 
happen if you giving the address of the list in the BCC field, and not
in the TO, or CC field. Or your message maybe contains administration
messages/commands.

But in this case you should also get a notifying message, saying that
your message is waiting for the admin's decision.

Third:
Maybe the administrator made some restricion, eg. only members can post,
and in the bounce options automatic error handling is disabled and/or
action during bounce errors is disabled without any notification message.

In this case you won't get any message, nor normal, nor error. But I
think you are the admin of that list, and you did not change settings
like this. 

So I said finally, maybe there is a typo in your aliases file.
The request address is correct, but there is something wrong with
the line of the list address. A typo could be like this:

testing:         "|/home/mailman2/mail/wrapper post testing
                                                           ^ (" is missing)
testing-admin:   "|/home/mailman2/mail/wrapper mailowner testing"
testing-request: "|/home/mailman2/mail/wrapper mailcmd testing"

In this case the request and admin address is working perfectly, but
the list address is not.
 
> What am I doing wrong??  I am used to a majordomo system, not a web system
Do not give up try to locate any suspicous messages in the log files.

Szilard Vizi
-------------
mailto:vizisz at freemail.hu             UIN:10676592



From vizisz at freemail.hu  Fri Jun 29 10:06:54 2001
From: vizisz at freemail.hu (Vizi Szilard)
Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 10:06:54 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: Nothing happens !
In-Reply-To: <HPELKDHLAMAPOAHIGGNCCEGECBAA.alragom@yahoo.com>; from alragom@yahoo.com on Fri, Jun 29, 2001 at 03:16:30AM -0400
References: <HPELKDHLAMAPOAHIGGNCCEGECBAA.alragom@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20010629100653.B5572@freemail.hu>

Hello,

Firas R. wrote:
> * run /usr/lib/mailman/bin/mmsitepass  to create the mailman administrator
> password
Good.

> * edit /usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/mm_cfg.py  to customize mailman's
> configuration for your site
That is ok. 

> * add these lines:
>   ScriptAlias /mailman/ /usr/lib/mailman/cgi-bin/
...
>   to /etc/httpd/conf/httpd.conf to configure your web server.
Very good.

> and added these aliases to /etc/aliases :
Looks a-okay.
 
> So after doing all of that , nothing happens ! I don't get an e-mail, and
> the only clue I've found is the following error from ( /var/mailman/post ):
> 
> Jun 30 02:56:52 2001 (11522) post to test from mailman-owner at ourserver.com,
> size=1329, 1 failures
This is a known problem of the precomplied packages. This is caused by
the wrong GID-s that was use during the making of the package.
 
> I checked the log files, cron is running everything set for mailman without
> any errors
In /usr/lib/mailman/logs/error you only find a few error messages. You
should check the /var/log/mail/info  or error file.
There, I think you will find some error messages complaing about
"wrong GID, got xx, expected yy (try to reconfigure with xx)" or
"unknown mail error" or "sh: wrapper not available".

If only the later two is in the mail logs, than you should make the
following:
 * cd /etc/smrsh
 * ln -s /usr/lib/mailman/mail/wrapper wrapper

If you got GID related message, than you must get to know your sendmail
GID. Try this:
 * grep DefaultUser /etc/sendmail.cf

You will maybe get something this DefaultUser 8:12
The UID is 8 and the GID is 12 in this case.

But your package is configured for something else, in this case
you have to install Mailman from source.

It is not difficult, only you have to read INSTALL and run:
 * ./configure --with-mail-gid=<see above> --with-cgi-gid=<see below>
 * make install

For the proper web interface working lets find out the Apache
GID-s.
 * grep Group /etc/httpd/conf/httpd.conf

Group apache


Szilard Vizi
-------------
mailto:vizisz at freemail.hu             UIN:10676592



From eric.gerbier at meteo.fr  Fri Jun 29 11:16:47 2001
From: eric.gerbier at meteo.fr (Eric Gerbier)
Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 09:16:47 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] how to know in which lists I have subscribed ?
Message-ID: <3B3C477F.BE516DA3@meteo.fr>

hello

as an admistrator, I can play with find_member command

but as a simple user ?

ps : if I compare with majordomo, there is a "which" mail command to do
that.

-- 
Eric Gerbier



From vizisz at freemail.hu  Fri Jun 29 11:38:26 2001
From: vizisz at freemail.hu (Vizi Szilard)
Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 11:38:26 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: how to know in which lists I have subscribed ?
In-Reply-To: <3B3C477F.BE516DA3@meteo.fr>; from eric.gerbier@meteo.fr on Fri, Jun 29, 2001 at 09:16:47AM +0000
References: <3B3C477F.BE516DA3@meteo.fr>
Message-ID: <20010629113826.C5572@freemail.hu>

Hello,

Eric Gerbier wrote:
> as an admistrator, I can play with find_member command
> 
> but as a simple user ?
Not so easy this one.

You need at least on listname where you are listmember.
Then go to that list listinfo page, log in to that list susbcribers
list and there choose list my other subscriptions on this host. 

There you get all the listname you are subscribed on that host.

Szilard Vizi
-------------
mailto:vizisz at freemail.hu             UIN:10676592



From vizisz at freemail.hu  Fri Jun 29 12:24:51 2001
From: vizisz at freemail.hu (Vizi Szilard)
Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 12:24:51 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: how to know in which lists I have subscribed ?
In-Reply-To: <3B3C53B4.7B0C0637@meteo.fr>; from eric.gerbier@meteo.fr on Fri, Jun 29, 2001 at 10:08:52AM +0000
References: <3B3C477F.BE516DA3@meteo.fr> <20010629113826.C5572@freemail.hu> <3B3C53B4.7B0C0637@meteo.fr>
Message-ID: <20010629122451.D5572@freemail.hu>

Eric Gerbier wrote:
> any possibility via a mail request I suppose ?

No, you can get the subscribers of a given list with
the email command 'who'. You should put this in a message
body then send to the list request address.

Szilard Vizi
-------------
mailto:vizisz at freemail.hu             UIN:10676592



From lists at xpec.com  Fri Jun 29 12:41:35 2001
From: lists at xpec.com (J.D. Bronson)
Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 05:41:35 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] 2.1?
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010629054051.00a94548@sparc-central.com>

How do I go about getting a copy of 2.1?

It sounds as if there is enough changes that I wont mind using 'bleeding 
edge' software.

Jeff





-- 
J.D. Bronson
Aurora Health Care
Information Systems
Milwaukee Wisconsin USA
Main Office: 414.978.8282




From lists at xpec.com  Fri Jun 29 12:44:13 2001
From: lists at xpec.com (J.D. Bronson)
Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 05:44:13 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] gate news
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010629054205.00a94548@sparc-central.com>

Under 2.0.5 I am having trouble getting news->mail to work.

(Since no one ever answered my previous email)  :(

I think that I have it all configured correctly, but when cron runs the 
gate news (or if I do it manually) nothing happens and there is no errors.

There is also no traffic going in/out...so I dont think it is doing a thing!

Nothing in any log files anywhere even syslogs....

I have the server and group specified fine...but...

any help PLEASE? (where to look/fix??)





-- 
J.D. Bronson
Aurora Health Care
Information Systems
Milwaukee Wisconsin USA
Main Office: 414.978.8282




From jimmy at merl.com  Fri Jun 29 16:35:25 2001
From: jimmy at merl.com (jimmy mcdonald)
Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 10:35:25 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] renaming a list?
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010629102935.01d45c70@mail.merl.com>

Hi,

I'm new to mailman and but its already in place
and I've been asked to rename a list.

I can't find any documentation on this.

Can someone either point me to a doc or
give me a basic outline of the steps needed.

I don't understand how to update the config.db
entries for things like the location of the
files.

Thanks in advance,
Jimmy




From justin at iago.org  Fri Jun 29 17:26:47 2001
From: justin at iago.org (Justin Sheehy)
Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 11:26:47 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] thttpd?
In-Reply-To: <15164.4745.474740.780102@anthem.wooz.org>
 (barry@digicool.com's message of "Fri, 29 Jun 2001 01:30:49 -0400")
References: <x7u210elft.fsf@ra.iago.org>
	<15163.23365.603521.747806@anthem.wooz.org>
	<x7y9qcylzw.fsf@ra.iago.org>
	<15164.4745.474740.780102@anthem.wooz.org>
Message-ID: <x73d8jcnns.fsf@ra.iago.org>

barry at digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw) writes:

> Really?  I think the CGI/1.1 "spec" (which really never got past draft
> status) description of SCRIPT_NAME and PATH_INFO definitely allow for
> Apache's behavior here. 

You're right, it does allow it.  It certainly doesn't require it, but
it doesn't rule it out either.  Sorry for overstating my point.

However, it seems to be more of an assumption.  With a little more
poking around, I'm guessing that Apache basically just kept this behavior
that was in NCSA from a fairly early date.  Since then, the major
servers have had that behavior and people have assumed (reasonably)
that it would work that way.

I'll go bother the thttpd people instead, and figure out why they
don't do things that way.

> What does thttpd actually set SCRIPT_NAME and PATH_INFO to when given
> a url like http://mysite.com/mailman/listinfo/mylist?

It doesn't matter, effectively, as it tries to run
/mailman/listinfo/somelist, which of course does not exist.  This is
the problem that I've been describing.

-Justin

 




From barry at digicool.com  Fri Jun 29 17:56:03 2001
From: barry at digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 11:56:03 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] thttpd?
References: <x7u210elft.fsf@ra.iago.org>
	<15163.23365.603521.747806@anthem.wooz.org>
	<x7y9qcylzw.fsf@ra.iago.org>
	<15164.4745.474740.780102@anthem.wooz.org>
	<x73d8jcnns.fsf@ra.iago.org>
Message-ID: <15164.42259.271672.645231@anthem.wooz.org>

>>>>> "JS" == Justin Sheehy <justin at iago.org> writes:

    JS> I'll go bother the thttpd people instead, and figure out why
    JS> they don't do things that way.

Okay.

    >> What does thttpd actually set SCRIPT_NAME and PATH_INFO to when
    >> given a url like http://mysite.com/mailman/listinfo/mylist?

    JS> It doesn't matter, effectively, as it tries to run
    JS> /mailman/listinfo/somelist, which of course does not exist.
    JS> This is the problem that I've been describing.

The question is related though, because what you describe indicates
that thttp would set SCRIPT_NAME to "/mailman/listinfo/somelist" and
PATH_INFO to "" /if/ it could find the script.

It seems to me that thttp's behavior would require you to have a
listinfo subdirectory that contains a somelist script (IIUC), and that
would make it impossible to support cgi's with both /mailman/listinfo
and /mailman/listinfo/somelist (as Mailman uses to give a site-wide
overview of lists, and specific list information).

Seems pretty disfunctional to me. ;)

-Barry



From barry at digicool.com  Fri Jun 29 18:00:23 2001
From: barry at digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 12:00:23 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: Mailman & Sendmail problems
References: <E15FqJ3-0005Ga-00@mail.python.org>
	<3B3C190A.EB7BF1ED@nleaudio.com>
Message-ID: <15164.42519.289828.125880@anthem.wooz.org>

>>>>> "B" == Bob  <bob at nleaudio.com> writes:

    B> Thanks for the info on how 2.1's "cron" works... So does it
    B> still wait until the next minute to check for messages if it
    B> isn't currently processing any, or do they get processed
    B> immediately?

In MM2.1, if a particular qrunner (remember, we now have several
separate queues) finds no files to process, it goes to sleep for a
while (time.sleep()) then checks again when it wakes up.

I misspoke earlier, the default sleep interval is 1 second, not 1
minute (this is configurable in mm_cfg.py).

It has to do this, or it'll busy loop.  I don't know of a good,
portable way to wait on new files showing up in a directory.

-Barry



From haroldp at sierraweb.com  Fri Jun 29 18:06:03 2001
From: haroldp at sierraweb.com (Harold Paulson)
Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 09:06:03 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Optimizing configuration
In-Reply-To: <15164.2128.158754.914213@anthem.wooz.org>
References: <01d301c0ff41$6bae3530$0200010a@home.beeze.com>
 <15164.2128.158754.914213@anthem.wooz.org>
Message-ID: <p05010401b762543e3cea@[216.162.173.6]>

Hi,

I have actually seen similar behavior.  I'm running Mailman on a 
FreeBSD 4.3-STABLE box, Python 2.0.  It doesn't particularly slow 
things down, but Python is the only thing on the machine that 
regularly uses CPU above about 10%.  Python can occasionally be seen 
in `top` hogging 75-95% of the CPU.

I *suspect* that it is related to processing large messages.  I 
approved a message of about 500k to be delivered to a list of about 8 
addresses, and it ate up CPU for quite a while, apparently working on 
it.  I actually saw loads above 20 from that, though, happily, the 
machine stayed quite responsive.  A 10k message to 20k people does 
seem to do this.  Might pipermail be the culprit here?

	- H


>>>>>>  "SKM" == Sarah K Miller <techgrrl at beeze.com> writes:
>
>     SKM> Is there anything special we can do to optimize our
>     SKM> Mailman/Python installation? We're running Solaris with 256M
>     SKM> of RAM, but Python is regularly hogging 75%+ of system
>     SKM> resources. To say this is slowing things down is an
>     SKM> understatement. Are there any configuration changes we can
>     SKM> make that will cause Python to use less memory and run more
>     SKM> efficiently?
>
>Are you sure it's Python that's the culprit?  We really need to know
>more about your environment.  What MTA (and version)?  What version of
>Python?  Did you build it from scratch or install a binary?  What are
>the sizes of messages, traffic, number of lists, number of
>subscribers, etc.?  What version of Mailman? ;)
>
>-Barry

-- 

Harold Paulson                  Sierra Web Design
haroldp at sierraweb.com           http://www.sierraweb.com
VOICE: 775.833.9500             FAX:   810.314.1517



From barry at digicool.com  Fri Jun 29 18:17:48 2001
From: barry at digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 12:17:48 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] 2.1?
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20010629054051.00a94548@sparc-central.com>
Message-ID: <15164.43564.799230.313002@anthem.wooz.org>

>>>>> "JDB" == J D Bronson <lists at xpec.com> writes:

    JDB> How do I go about getting a copy of 2.1?

Currently, 2.1a1 is availble on the SourceForge files page.  I've
gotten backed up with other stuff so I haven't made an alpha 2 release
yet, but hope to do so shortly.

-Barry



From barry at digicool.com  Fri Jun 29 18:19:57 2001
From: barry at digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 12:19:57 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] gate news
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20010629054205.00a94548@sparc-central.com>
Message-ID: <15164.43693.162587.759927@anthem.wooz.org>

>>>>> "JDB" == J D Bronson <lists at xpec.com> writes:

    JDB> Under 2.0.5 I am having trouble getting news->mail to work.

    JDB> (Since no one ever answered my previous email) :(

    JDB> I think that I have it all configured correctly, but when
    JDB> cron runs the gate news (or if I do it manually) nothing
    JDB> happens and there is no errors.

    JDB> There is also no traffic going in/out...so I dont think it is
    JDB> doing a thing!

    JDB> Nothing in any log files anywhere even syslogs....

    JDB> I have the server and group specified fine...but...

    JDB> any help PLEASE? (where to look/fix??)

If you're really getting nothing in any of Mailman's log files, then
you're going to start having to add "debugging prints" to the
gate_news script.  For Mailman, this means adding syslog() calls.  You
can use anything as the first argument, but I typically use 'debug',
which writes output to $prefix/logs/debug, which I then tail to watch
as things go.

-Barry



From afreyvogel at ecmarket.com  Fri Jun 29 18:51:59 2001
From: afreyvogel at ecmarket.com (Andreas Freyvogel)
Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 09:51:59 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] messages pending approval
In-Reply-To: <p05101004b761931b2aeb@[207.149.192.229]>
Message-ID: <DCENKNILIJGHAHNAAFFMGECICKAA.afreyvogel@ecmarket.com>

when I send a message to a list that needs to have approval prior to its
being sent out, I do receive a response email telling me that it has arrived
and is waiting approval. Now, does it make sense to conclude that if it can
send me an email this way that it should by all accounts be able to send
email for approval notification as well?


-----Original Message-----
From: mailman-users-admin at python.org
[mailto:mailman-users-admin at python.org]On Behalf Of John W Baxter
Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2001 7:20 PM
To: mailman-users at python.org
Subject: RE: [Mailman-Users] messages pending approval


At 17:04 -0700 6/28/2001, Andreas Freyvogel wrote:
>I do have that option checked off as "yes" but for some reason I am not
>receiving any notifications. Could there be something else that I am
>missing?

If you are also not receiving the once-per-day notifications, then mailman
is unable to send mail to you as the list administrator.  There could be an
alias in the way, or some other problem.  Step one would seem to be to
verify that you can send a message to the address listed in
   General Options-->The list admin's email address....

Having a role account listed there is fine (and probably better than a
personal address)...having it a role account which aliases (or Exim magic)
send back to Mailman is not (learned the hard way here on a test list).

   --John

--
John Baxter   jwblist at olympus.net      Port Ludlow, WA, USA

------------------------------------------------------
Mailman-Users maillist  -  Mailman-Users at python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users





From bob at nleaudio.com  Fri Jun 29 19:14:38 2001
From: bob at nleaudio.com (Bob Puff@NLE)
Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 13:14:38 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] thttpd?
References: <E15G0HR-0003tC-00@mail.python.org>
Message-ID: <3B3CB77E.729B3554@nleaudio.com>

I also run a e-commerce program called Interchange (Red Hat), and it uses a CGI very similar to Mailman (i.e., http://server.com/cgi-bin/cgifile/parameter)

So I would agree with Barry, if your other webserver program doesn't let this work, I would tend to point the finger at the webserver, not the cgi's author.

Bob
    JS> The use of this behavior makes Mailman unable to work on a
    JS> simple webserver that correctly implements CGI.



From claw at kanga.nu  Fri Jun 29 19:53:28 2001
From: claw at kanga.nu (J C Lawrence)
Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 10:53:28 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] 2.1? 
In-Reply-To: Message from "J.D. Bronson" <lists@xpec.com> 
   of "Fri, 29 Jun 2001 05:41:35 CDT." <5.1.0.14.2.20010629054051.00a94548@sparc-central.com> 
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20010629054051.00a94548@sparc-central.com> 
Message-ID: <12169.993837208@kanga.nu>

On Fri, 29 Jun 2001 05:41:35 -0500 
J D Bronson <J.D.> wrote:

> How do I go about getting a copy of 2.1?  

CVS on Sourceforge.

-- 
J C Lawrence                                             claw at kanga.nu
---------(*)                                http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/
I never claimed to be human.



From jspinnow at sparc-central.com  Fri Jun 29 13:38:22 2001
From: jspinnow at sparc-central.com (John S. Pinnow)
Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 06:38:22 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: gate news
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20010629054205.00a94548@sparc-central.com>; from lists@xpec.com on Fri, Jun 29, 2001 at 05:44:13AM -0500
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20010629054205.00a94548@sparc-central.com>
Message-ID: <20010629063822.C31700@cs.uwm.edu>

On Fri, Jun 29, 2001 at 05:44:13AM -0500, J.D. Bronson wrote:
> Under 2.0.5 I am having trouble getting news->mail to work.
> 
> (Since no one ever answered my previous email)  :(
> 
> I think that I have it all configured correctly, but when cron runs the 
> gate news (or if I do it manually) nothing happens and there is no errors.
> 
> There is also no traffic going in/out...so I dont think it is doing a thing!
> 
> Nothing in any log files anywhere even syslogs....
> 
> I have the server and group specified fine...but...
> 
> any help PLEASE? (where to look/fix??)
> 
> 
where is the cgi interface? I would almost rather run the custom
scripts that I was running on lite before it went puff. Thougth this
is a nice challenge and everything. Did we run newlist? 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> J.D. Bronson
> Aurora Health Care
> Information Systems
> Milwaukee Wisconsin USA
> Main Office: 414.978.8282
> 



From ChristB at visuaide.com  Fri Jun 29 15:19:35 2001
From: ChristB at visuaide.com (Christian Billette)
Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 09:19:35 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Error decoding authorization cookie
Message-ID: <3B3C4827.15322.2DD0E057@localhost>

Hi ! 

On the upper part of the administrative authentification page of a list, this 
message appear "Error decoding authorization cookie".
http://mail.visuaide.com/mailman/admin/test

Merci !

Christian B.
Gestionnaire de r?seaux
Visuaide, inc.



From matt at engsoc.org  Fri Jun 29 20:50:01 2001
From: matt at engsoc.org (matt mcparland)
Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 14:50:01 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Where's the CHANGELOG?
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0106291449190.32319-100000@lager.engsoc.carleton.ca>

Is there any place that I could find a changelog for Mailman?  I just want
reasons to upgrade to incremental version changes.

-- 
Matt McParland					matt at engsoc.org




From arandall at auntminnie.com  Fri Jun 29 21:06:59 2001
From: arandall at auntminnie.com (Amanda)
Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 12:06:59 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Web interface went to Brazil for summer vacation?
Message-ID: <3B3CD1D3.CFAC6B1F@auntminnie.com>

Augh! Rassenfrassendagnabbitstupidpieceof...  Oh, sorry...

Just when I thought I had it all figured out, my web interface
disappeared. It was there the last time I looked at it, but apparently
a band of Little People snuck in during the night and spirited it away
with them to the Other Place. (foo.net/mailman/admin/testlist gives a
404)

I checked Apache ... it's still running (restarted it just for grins).
httpd.conf still has the script-alias doohickey in it (ScriptAlias
/mailman/ "/home/mailman/cgi-bin/"). Other web pages on the same copy
of Apache are visible and behaving normally. It was *just* working, I
swear. Stuff like this makes you question whether you really saw what
you think you saw or not. (Was it really working on Wednesday, or was
I having caffeine-withdrawal-induced hallucinations?)

Nothing interesting to report out of the system logs.

I haven't really changed anything on mailman. I have been beating
qmail severely about the head and shoulders, but nothing over there
should've had an impact on the web interface...

I realize I'm a little frazzled from days and nights on end untangling
(unrelated) scripts and may be missing something obvious ... If anyone
has any suggestions, I'm all ears.


=)
Amanda
(Drake 8 on an HP workstation running apache 1.3.20, qmail 1.03,
mailman 2.0.5, xinetd)





From alragom at yahoo.com  Fri Jun 29 22:27:36 2001
From: alragom at yahoo.com (Firas R.)
Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 16:27:36 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] RE: Nothing happens!
Message-ID: <HPELKDHLAMAPOAHIGGNCOEGNCBAA.alragom@yahoo.com>

Thanks for the advice, I upgraded to sendmail-8.9.3-20 (I didn't make any of
the other changes) and I found the source of the problem.
It turned out that the relay options must be specified in the
/etc/mail/update_pop.conf file  not the  /etc/mail/access file because this
keeps getting  overwriten whenever /usr/sbin/update_pop  runs

So I've finally managed to get sendmail to allow localhost relaying, i setup
a test list, and it sends me the new mailing list email :-)
But unfortunately i've got a new problem .....

If I try to access http://www.ourserver.com/mailman/admin/test  I get an
"Internal Server Error"
Checking apache's logs I found the following :

error_log:[Sat Jun 30 16:22:25 2001] [error] [client 207.172.11.232]
Premature end of script headers: /home2/mailman/cgi-bin/admin
suexec_log:[2001-06-30 16:22:25]: directory is writable by others:
(/home2/mailman/cgi-bin)

Is this an Apache problem or is it related to the scripts themselves ?


-----Original Message-----
From: Vizi Szilard [mailto:vizisz at freemail.hu]
Sent: Friday, June 29, 2001 7:38 AM
To: Firas R.
Subject: Re: : Nothing happens !


Firas R. wrote:
> localhost 	RELAY
> 127.0.0.1	RELAY
Try to put here a:

localhost.localdomain           RELAY

line to.
> Jun 30 06:37:29 ourserver sendmail[14614]: GAA14614: ruleset=check_rcpt,
> arg1=<myself at yahoo.com>, relay=localhost [127.0.0.1], reject=550
> <myself at yahoo.com>... Relaying denied
Once this also happened with me, no matter what I modified in the
sendmail it does not accept my message.

There could be 3 things you can do:

 1. change the sendmail version
     sendmail-8.9.3-20 is working perfectly on my machine, I had
     to make a downgrade
 2. read the README.SENDMAIL in the mailman source, it shows you
    how to react with sendmail in different way
 3. Take a look at the /home/mailman/Mailman/Defaults.py

# Delivery module for the message pipeline.  See
# Mailman/Handlers/HandlerAPI.py for details.  Unless overridden
specifically
# in that module, this handler is used for message delivery to the list, and
# to an individual user.  This value must be a string naming a module in the
# Mailman.Handlers package.
#
# SECURITY WARNING: The Sendmail module is not secure!  Please read the
# comments in Mailman/Handlers/Sendmail.py for details.  Use at your own
# risk.
#
#DELIVERY_MODULE = 'Sendmail'
DELIVERY_MODULE = 'SMTPDirect'

You should change to Sendmail instead of SMTPDirect.

One of this have to work!

Szilard Vizi
----------
mailto:vizisz at freemail.hu             UIN:10676592


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com




From claw at kanga.nu  Fri Jun 29 22:28:55 2001
From: claw at kanga.nu (claw at kanga.nu)
Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 13:28:55 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Qmail - huge performance increase (fwd)
Message-ID: <12302.993846535@2wire.com>

I'm not a QMail user and so can't verify or confirm the truth of
this.  However, we have enough performance and scalability
discussions here that it may help someone:

http://lists.debian.org/debian-isp-0106/msg00221.html

--<cut>--
      To: <debian-isp at lists.debian.org> 
      Subject: Qmail - huge performance increase 
      From: "Jason Lim" <maillist at jasonlim.com> 
      Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 01:45:23 +0800 
      Reply-To: "Jason Lim" <maillist at jasonlim.com> 



Hi,

Anyone that has followed this list knows I've been trying to boost Qmail's
outgoing mail performance greatly.

Just thought I'd let everyone know that increasing the number in the
"conf-split" drastically improves performance.

One of the problems I was having earlier was that the customer's server
had a HUGE number of emails, and even just doing "ls" in each directory in
the qmail queue directories would take ages, as there were so many
individual emails queued.

SO... by increasing conf-split to 97 (from the default of 20 something
afaik), each directory ends up only having a hundred or so files. Doing
"ls" now is far speedier.

I couldn't find any documentation anywhere stating this, so I'll share it
with you all :-)

Sincerely,
Jason
--<cut>--

-- 
J C Lawrence                                       claw at kanga.nu
---------(*)                          http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/
The pressure to survive and rhetoric may make strange bedfellows



From michael at trollope.org  Fri Jun 29 22:59:05 2001
From: michael at trollope.org (Michael Powe)
Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 13:59:05 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mail loop!
Message-ID: <200106292059.f5TKx5X03061@cecilia.trollope.org>

Hello,

Panic!  My digest mail seems to be stuck in a loop and has sent the
same mail at least 50 times.  It's still going.  I've deleted
everything from /var/spool/mqueue, but it just repopulates.  The
header is below.  What can I do to short-circuit this thing?  Thanks!

[ note this is the only mail having a problem, other mails aren't
doing this ]

V2
T993843361
K0
N0
P1172716
I3/8/293083
B8BITMIME
F8b
$_mailman at localhost
Strollope-l-admin at trollope.org
RPFD:gail_campain at start.com.au
RPFD:frazer at oliver7.demon.co.uk
RPFD:lynne at leifeld.org
RPFD:caroalic at maine.rr.com
RPFD:dutchtrollopian at cs.com
	[ ... huge list of addresses deleted ... ]
H?P?Return-Path: <trollope-l-admin at trollope.org>
HReceived: (from mailman at localhost)
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-- 
  Michael Powe                                 Portland, Oregon USA
'Unless we approve your idea, it will not be permitted, it will not be
allowed.'  -- Hilary Rosen, President, Recording Industry Association
of America



From arandall at auntminnie.com  Fri Jun 29 23:11:52 2001
From: arandall at auntminnie.com (Amanda)
Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 14:11:52 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Web interface went to Brazil for summer vacation?
References: <200106292106.RAA28911@doit.sc.slr.com>
Message-ID: <3B3CEF18.75C4CBC6@auntminnie.com>

Actually the Mailman software *is* installed into /home/mailman. I didn't change
the default, and the files all appear to be right there in /home/mailman where
they're supposed to be.

The document root for *Apache,* however, is /usr/local/apache/www/htdocs. (And the
server root for Apache is /usr/local/apache/www.) That was done well before
Mailman was installed, and the Mailman admin pages were working fine for weeks.

What part of httpd.conf would you like to see?

Fix one thing, break two others. It's like a Hydra, I swear...
=)
Amanda


Clark Cooper wrote:

> If you can not even get to the admin page, then I would state this as
> being a problem with your Apache and/or python setup.   What does your
> Apache config file state?
>
> Also, I see that you are not installed into the default location
> (/home/mailman).  Though this should not be a problem, be careful when
> configuring/compiling. :)
>
> -Clark
>
> On 29 Jun, Amanda wrote:
> > Clark Cooper wrote:
> >
> >> What do the apache logs report?
> >
> > Error_log reports:
> > [error] [client (ip address)] File does not exist:
> > /usr/local/apache/www/htdocs/mailman/admin/testlist
> > Access_log reports:
> > (when accessing on the local machine) "GET /mailman/admin/testlist HTTP/1.1"
> > 404 303
> > (when accessing from a remote machine) "GET /mailman/admin/testlist
> > HTTP/1.0" 404 291
> > ...which is what I'd expect it to say if the page was nonexistent.
> >
> >> Also, can you get to http://foo.net/mailman/admin?  If so, from there do
> >> you see your list
> >> and can you get to it?
> >
> > Nope, and nope, and nope.
> >
> >
> > "Islam, Sharif" wrote:
> >
> >>  Did u update the aliases, by newalias? when you type new_list it creates
> >> some entry for alias file
> >
> > Newalias might help fix mail-delivery problems if I were running sendmail.
> > :-) I am, however, not having a problem with mail-delivery, aliasing, or
> > sendmail....  qmail (my MTA) does have accurate lists of the aliases; the
> > problem is with the web interface.
> >
> > =)
> > Amanda
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >




From ryan.hyma at amd.com  Fri Jun 29 22:59:20 2001
From: ryan.hyma at amd.com (Ryan Hyma)
Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 15:59:20 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Digest mode wish
Message-ID: <3B3CEC27.CD46610A@super.amd.com>

I think it would be extremely useful to be able to click on an index
entry at the top of the digest and have it take you down to the place in
the digest where that mail starts.  Some of my digests are very large
and I only care about a couple of the messages.  They can be very
cumbersome to find.

        -Ryan





From dmeves at resource.com  Fri Jun 29 23:14:24 2001
From: dmeves at resource.com (Diane Meves)
Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 17:14:24 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] ? free Unix-server space?
Message-ID: <B76267F0.E50C%dmeves@resource.com>

Hi there.

I am new user to Mailman, and loving it as a list administrator for
DigitalEve Columbus...

I was also a list administrator for 4 personal lists on Microsoft's Listbot.
But now they want to charge for it so i am looking to move these.... I am
curious to know if...

   a) Python or Mailman support a free lists area somewhere (my 4 lists are
very small...)

   b) you know who offers free Unix-server space so I can install my lists
elsewhere

Any help appreciated.
-- 
Diane Meves
223 E. Oakland Ave.
Columbus, OH  43201
614-299-5534
dianemeves at yahoo.com




From satyap at satya.virtualave.net  Fri Jun 29 23:52:04 2001
From: satyap at satya.virtualave.net (Satya)
Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 03:22:04 +0530 (IST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Web interface went to Brazil for summer vacation?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0106300308530.932-100000@hal9k.myip.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0106300321230.932-100000@hal9k.myip.org>

On Jun 30, 2001 at 03:20, Satya wrote:

>Note the paths. They're in Apache's web directory space, not in the
>filesystem. Your path is in the filesystem. Borked Alias directive is
>my guess.

OTOH, our Apache versions differ. I don't know; please check anyway.

Unless it's already fixed...

-- 
Satya. <URL:http://satya.virtualave.net/>
US-bound grad students! For pre-apps, see <URL:http://quickapps.cjb.net/>
Ok Scotty, now!  detonate and energize!  I mean.......




From satyap at satya.virtualave.net  Fri Jun 29 23:50:49 2001
From: satyap at satya.virtualave.net (Satya)
Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 03:20:49 +0530 (IST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Web interface went to Brazil for summer vacation?
In-Reply-To: <3B3CD1D3.CFAC6B1F@auntminnie.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0106300308530.932-100000@hal9k.myip.org>

On Jun 29, 2001 at 12:06, Amanda wrote:

>with them to the Other Place. (foo.net/mailman/admin/testlist gives a
>404)

[short recap: tried the usual, got nothing]

Sounds like your Apache directory structure might be twisted. I didn't
follow this completely, but if the document root for Apache is
/usr/local/apache/www/htdocs and you're getting:

"
File does not exist:
/usr/local/apache/www/htdocs/mailman/admin/testlist
"

in the logs, then maybe mailman's stuff should be in
/usr/local/apache/www/htdocs/ on the filesystem. That is if the Alias
directive, as below, is missing.

You mentioned ScriptAlias. I have this:

Alias /mailman/ /home/mailman/cgi-bin/

Do you have a similar line? Is it correct?

STOP PRESS.

I just checked. My logs, with things working correctly, show this:

127.0.0.1 - - [30/Jun/2001:03:17:56 +0530] "GET / HTTP/1.0" 200 6394
127.0.0.1 - - [30/Jun/2001:03:18:00 +0530] "GET /mailman/
HTTP/1.0" 200 197
127.0.0.1 - - [30/Jun/2001:03:18:01 +0530] "GET /mailman/admin.cgi
HTTP/1.0" 200 2668
127.0.0.1 - - [30/Jun/2001:03:18:07 +0530] "GET
/mailman/admin.cgi/dfedit HTTP/1.0" 200 1327

Note the paths. They're in Apache's web directory space, not in the
filesystem. Your path is in the filesystem. Borked Alias directive is
my guess.

>I realize I'm a little frazzled from days and nights on end untangling
>(unrelated) scripts and may be missing something obvious ... If anyone
>has any suggestions, I'm all ears.

I'm not very awake either.

BTW, who else has admin access to the box in question? Maybe they
did something?

More wild guessing: is /usr/local/apache/www/htdocs/ or anything along
that path on a different partition which isn't mounted?


Data:
Server version: Apache/1.3.12 (Unix)  (Red Hat/Linux)
Mailman version: 2.0.1 

-- 
Satya. <URL:http://satya.virtualave.net/>
US-bound grad students! For pre-apps, see <URL:http://quickapps.cjb.net/>
ISDN: It Still Does Nothing







From arandall at auntminnie.com  Sat Jun 30 00:06:11 2001
From: arandall at auntminnie.com (Amanda)
Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 15:06:11 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Web interface went to Brazil for summer vacation?
References: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0106300308530.932-100000@hal9k.myip.org>
Message-ID: <3B3CFBD3.7F565BCE@auntminnie.com>

Satya wrote:

> You mentioned ScriptAlias. I have this:
>
> Alias /mailman/ /home/mailman/cgi-bin/
>
> Do you have a similar line? Is it correct?

I don't have a mailman alias - but I didn't have one before. I have one for
icons, and I have one for pipermail, but not for mailman. What the heck.
Can't hurt to try. It's already broke...

> Note the paths. They're in Apache's web directory space, not in the
> filesystem. Your path is in the filesystem. Borked Alias directive is
> my guess. [snip] BTW, who else has admin access to the box in question?
> Maybe they did something?

Nobody else has admin rights to the box. (Hell, nobody else has rights to the
box.) I'd love to pin this on someone else, but if it was human intervention
that busted it, it's all me. ::sigh:: Not that that's any great surprise at
this point...

> More wild guessing: is /usr/local/apache/www/htdocs/ or anything along
> that path on a different partition which isn't mounted?

I wish it were that simple. :-) Not on a different partition, and other
webpages in that htdocs folder are serving fine.

I'll let you know if the alias thing happens to fix it. I'm curious, if it's
needed, why it worked before. ::shaking head:: Weirder things have
happened...

=)
Amanda





From Chad at Balius.com  Sat Jun 30 00:14:58 2001
From: Chad at Balius.com (Chad at Balius.com)
Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 18:14:58 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] wrapper help
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20010629181445.00a29670@mgate>


mailman-2.0.5.tar.gz
Python 1.5.2 (#1, Feb  1 2000, 16:32:16)
mta - right now Sendmail, will be iPlanet Messaging Server
os - Linux

I ran configure with  --with-mail-gid and set correctly, after not doing 
that the first time.  :)

The problem I'm having is that mail addressed to list-request at domain.com is 
going to the list owner, not mailman itself.  The list is setup for confirm 
only.

I put the confirmation reply message in /tmp/test and then

/home/mailman/mail/wrapper mailcmd humor < /tmp/test

it worked, mailman got the message and sent back a welcome to the list 
message to the address that was requesting subscription.  When that message 
arrives via the entry in the aliases file, it does not seem to 
work.  Nothing is being logged to syslog or mailman's error file.   The 
mail log file shows everything working.


# mm_cfg.py

DEFAULT_HOST_NAME   = 'lists.domain.com'
DEFAULT_URL         = 'http://domain.com/mailman/'
ARCHIVER_OBSCURES_EMAILADDRS = 1
SMTP_MAX_RCPTS = 5
USE_ENVELOPE_SENDER = 1
SMART_ADDRESS_MATCH = 0
DEFAULT_PRIVATE_ROSTER = 1
DEFAULT_OBSCURE_ADDRESSES = 0

/etc/aliases

humor:                   "|/home/mailman/mail/wrapper post humor"
humor-admin:             "|/home/mailman/mail/wrapper mailowner humor"
humor-request:           "|/home/mailman/mail/wrapper mailcmd humor"
humor-owner:             humor-admin


Any ideas?


Thanks,
Chad 




From arandall at auntminnie.com  Sat Jun 30 00:12:06 2001
From: arandall at auntminnie.com (Amanda)
Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 15:12:06 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Web interface went to Brazil for summer vacation?
References: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0106300321230.932-100000@hal9k.myip.org>
Message-ID: <3B3CFD36.7599E1CB@auntminnie.com>

FYI, the Alias line didn't help. I had a ScriptAlias line that was nearly
identical. That didn't help either.

What'm I doing wrong here? anybody?

=)
Amanda


Satya wrote:

> On Jun 30, 2001 at 03:20, Satya wrote:
>
> >Note the paths. They're in Apache's web directory space, not in the
> >filesystem. Your path is in the filesystem. Borked Alias directive is
> >my guess.
>
> OTOH, our Apache versions differ. I don't know; please check anyway.
>
> Unless it's already fixed...
>
> --
> Satya. <URL:http://satya.virtualave.net/>
> US-bound grad students! For pre-apps, see <URL:http://quickapps.cjb.net/>
> Ok Scotty, now!  detonate and energize!  I mean.......
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users maillist  -  Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users




From arandall at auntminnie.com  Sat Jun 30 00:15:41 2001
From: arandall at auntminnie.com (Amanda)
Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 15:15:41 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Web interface went to Brazil for summer vacation?
References: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0106300308530.932-100000@hal9k.myip.org> <3B3CFBD3.7F565BCE@auntminnie.com>
Message-ID: <3B3CFE0D.9C5C9561@auntminnie.com>

OK, this is weird.

As a what-the-heck measure, I erased the ScriptAlias line and retyped it.
Restarted Apache. Problem solved. Best guess: I had a garbage character in there
somewhere?

::shrug:: I don't get it. But it's working. So I won't complain.

::wonders for the millionth time why she ever got into computers in the first
place::

=)
Amanda


Amanda wrote:

> Satya wrote:
>
> > You mentioned ScriptAlias. I have this:
> >
> > Alias /mailman/ /home/mailman/cgi-bin/
> >
> > Do you have a similar line? Is it correct?
>
> I don't have a mailman alias - but I didn't have one before. I have one for
> icons, and I have one for pipermail, but not for mailman. What the heck.
> Can't hurt to try. It's already broke...
>
> > Note the paths. They're in Apache's web directory space, not in the
> > filesystem. Your path is in the filesystem. Borked Alias directive is
> > my guess. [snip] BTW, who else has admin access to the box in question?
> > Maybe they did something?
>
> Nobody else has admin rights to the box. (Hell, nobody else has rights to the
> box.) I'd love to pin this on someone else, but if it was human intervention
> that busted it, it's all me. ::sigh:: Not that that's any great surprise at
> this point...
>
> > More wild guessing: is /usr/local/apache/www/htdocs/ or anything along
> > that path on a different partition which isn't mounted?
>
> I wish it were that simple. :-) Not on a different partition, and other
> webpages in that htdocs folder are serving fine.
>
> I'll let you know if the alias thing happens to fix it. I'm curious, if it's
> needed, why it worked before. ::shaking head:: Weirder things have
> happened...
>
> =)
> Amanda
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users maillist  -  Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users




From bob at pc-help-on-site.com  Sat Jun 30 00:18:15 2001
From: bob at pc-help-on-site.com (Bob Leonard)
Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 18:18:15 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Basic HTML form "Unsubscribe" help (please)
Message-ID: <000f01c100e9$684ad840$9cb28118@tampabay.rr.com>

My situation is that my ISP makes Mailman available.  With limited knowledge (and limited talent), my objective is simple - have a web page where users can subscribe and unsubscribe simply and without a password.  Nor do I want to subject my users to the two-page unsubscribe process provided with the list.

I've read the manuals and most of the archive (to tell the truth I did not get though the whole 33mb of text).  Never-the-less, I'm ready to beg for help.

I have worked out the form to subscribe users - this works fine and is shown below. (Passwords for everyone are hidden and set to the same value.  This way the user does not know he or she has a password.)

While I understand that my ISP installed and configured Mailman, can anyone use the form below to give me advice on creating a  html form to unsubcribe a user?


<form method=POST action="http://MyISPSserver/mailman/subscribe/MyList_MySite"> 
<input type="hidden" name="pw-conf" size="15" value="password">
<input type="hidden" name="pw" size="15" value="password"> 
<p>Your Email address: 
<input type="text" name="email" size="30">
</p>
<p><a href="Unsubscribe.htm">undo</a></p>
</FORM>

Thank you.

Bob Leonard
bob at pc-help-on-site.com
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From altroweb at yahoo.com  Sat Jun 30 00:38:04 2001
From: altroweb at yahoo.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?Giancarlo=20Pinerolo?=)
Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 00:38:04 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] NNTP-Posting-Host not of the sender, in mail-news gateway
Message-ID: <20010629223804.76408.qmail@web11401.mail.yahoo.com>

I had< people complaining that, in a list that is a
mail-news gateway, the NNTP_posting-host header does
not contain the IP address of the sender, but rather
the  name of the server running the mail-news gateway.

In practice I've been subtly accused of giving a way
to spammers to forward messages to a newsgroup through
the use of mailman.

Really I've no idea of who, where this header gets
written, because a message sent to e.g:

alt.gruop at my.server.com
is sent to the mail server at my.server.com before
being resent to the news server.

Where is the fault?

Should I configure sendmail differently or is there
anything that mailman misses in forming the headers?

Thanks for any help

Giancarlo

______________________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Il tuo indirizzo gratis e per sempre @yahoo.it su http://mail.yahoo.it



From jwblist at olympus.net  Sat Jun 30 00:55:23 2001
From: jwblist at olympus.net (John W Baxter)
Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 15:55:23 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mail loop!
In-Reply-To: <200106292059.f5TKx5X03061@cecilia.trollope.org>
References: <200106292059.f5TKx5X03061@cecilia.trollope.org>
Message-ID: <p05101000b762b6bb5d34@[207.149.192.229]>

Step 1 could be:  pull the Ethernet connection out of the machine.  Brutal,
but effective...your digest recipients will probably appreciate it.

Then...since clearing (sendmail's??) mail queue doesn't get rid of the
problem, it must be mailman doing the repeated sending.  See what you can
figure out about mailman's queue.

You may find an ASCII NUL (C end of string) character someplace in
mid-digest...if so consider tr as a quick fix.

   --John


At 13:59 -0700 6/29/2001, Michael Powe wrote:
>Panic!  My digest mail seems to be stuck in a loop and has sent the
>same mail at least 50 times.  It's still going.  I've deleted
>everything from /var/spool/mqueue, but it just repopulates.  The
>header is below.  What can I do to short-circuit this thing?  Thanks!

-- 
John Baxter   jwblist at olympus.net      Port Ludlow, WA, USA



From arandall at auntminnie.com  Sat Jun 30 01:02:54 2001
From: arandall at auntminnie.com (Amanda)
Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 16:02:54 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] fix one problem, find another
Message-ID: <3B3D091E.8F9E8704@auntminnie.com>

Grr. Now something else fishy is going on.  (why oh why does it have
to happen on a Friday?)
I send a post to the list and it never arrives. It's not getting hung
up in the qmail queue - but it seems to be going from testlist-admin
to testlist-admin over and over, and I'm not entirely sure why.
HP workstation running Drake 8 with Mailman 2.0.5, qmail 1.03, Apache
1.3.20 in standalone, xinetd.

After sending a test post to the list named "testlist" from my regular
email account:
System log:
Jun 29 15:31:27 tux qmail: 993853887.203143 new msg 115205
Jun 29 15:31:27 tux qmail: 993853887.203407 info msg 115205: bytes
1323 from <arandall at auntminnie.com> qp 10854 uid 507
Jun 29 15:31:27 tux qmail: 993853887.227007 starting delivery 47: msg
115205 to local testlist at foo.net
Jun 29 15:31:27 tux qmail: 993853887.227280 status: local 1/10 remote
0/20
Jun 29 15:31:28 tux qmail: 993853888.267934 delivery 47: success:
did_0+0+1/
Jun 29 15:31:28 tux qmail: 993853888.268318 status: local 0/10 remote
0/20
Jun 29 15:31:28 tux qmail: 993853888.281671 end msg 115205
Jun 29 15:32:00 tux CROND[10860]: (mailman) CMD (/usr/bin/python -S
/home/mailman/cron/qrunner)
Jun 29 15:32:01 tux qmail: 993853921.651369 new msg 115205
Jun 29 15:32:01 tux qmail: 993853921.651680 info msg 115205: bytes
1427 from <testlist-admin at foo.net> qp 10862 uid 507
Jun 29 15:32:01 tux qmail: 993853921.685423 starting delivery 48: msg
115205 to local testlist-admin at foo.net
Jun 29 15:32:01 tux qmail: 993853921.685692 status: local 1/10 remote
0/20
Jun 29 15:32:02 tux qmail: 993853922.846104 delivery 48: success:
did_0+0+1/
Jun 29 15:32:02 tux qmail: 993853922.846500 status: local 0/10 remote
0/20
Jun 29 15:32:02 tux qmail: 993853922.846606 end msg 115205

The mailman bounce log:
Jun 29 11:47:20 2001 (8261) Testlist: arandall at auntminnie.com - first
Jun 29 14:17:02 2001 (10564) Testlist: arandall at auntminnie.com - first

Jun 29 14:24:01 2001 (10587) testlist: address arandall at auntminnie.com
not a member.
Jun 29 14:48:08 2001 (10676) Testlist: arandall at auntminnie.com - 3
more allowed over 430134 secs
Jun 29 15:32:01 2001 (10860) Testlist: arandall at auntminnie.com - 3
more allowed over 427500 secs
Jun 29 15:33:02 2001 (10869) Testlist: arandall at auntminnie.com - 3
more allowed over 427439 secs

The mailman error log is empty.
The mailman post log:
Jun 29 11:47:20 2001 (8261) post to testlist from
mailman-owner at foo.net, size=1338, 1 failures
Jun 29 14:48:08 2001 (10676) post to testlist from
testlist-request at tux.auntminnie.net, size=1221, 1 failures
Jun 29 15:32:01 2001 (10860) post to testlist from
testlist-admin at tux.auntminnie.net, size=305, 1 failures
Jun 29 15:33:02 2001 (10869) post to testlist from
testlist-admin at tux.auntminnie.net, size=371, 1 failures

The mailman smtp log:
Jun 29 11:14:29 2001 (7498) smtp for 1 recips, completed in 0.987
seconds
Jun 29 11:47:20 2001 (8261) smtp for 1 recips, completed in 0.437
seconds
Jun 29 14:17:02 2001 (10564) smtp for 1 recips, completed in 0.405
seconds
Jun 29 14:24:01 2001 (10587) smtp for 1 recips, completed in 0.074
seconds
Jun 29 14:48:08 2001 (10676) smtp for 1 recips, completed in 0.072
seconds
Jun 29 15:32:01 2001 (10860) smtp for 1 recips, completed in 0.130
seconds
Jun 29 15:32:01 2001 (10860) smtp for 1 recips, completed in 0.067
seconds
Jun 29 15:33:02 2001 (10869) smtp for 1 recips, completed in 0.125
seconds

The qmail aliases:
file .qmail-testlist reads:                |preline
/home/mailman/mail/wrapper post testlist
file .qmail-testlist-admin reads:     |preline
/home/mailman/mail/wrapper mailowner testlist
file .qmail-testlist-owner reads:    testlist-admin
file .qmail-testlist-request reads:   |preline
/home/mailman/mail/wrapper mailcmd testlist


Any ideas?
=)
Amanda





From jwblist at olympus.net  Sat Jun 30 02:07:20 2001
From: jwblist at olympus.net (John W Baxter)
Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 17:07:20 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] messages pending approval
In-Reply-To: <DCENKNILIJGHAHNAAFFMGECICKAA.afreyvogel@ecmarket.com>
References: <DCENKNILIJGHAHNAAFFMGECICKAA.afreyvogel@ecmarket.com>
Message-ID: <p05101002b762c6b11ad0@[207.149.192.229]>

Not necessarily:  when you send in a message to the list, Mailman gets the
address to which to send the notification that the message requires
approval from your incoming message.

When Mailman wants to send its list administrator(s) notice that a message
has come in which requires approval, it sends to the address listed in the
(general) admin page.

If the administrator address looks like one which should reach you, I would
suggest fully clearing out that field and putting the address in again (on
the Mac, I would tab into the field, thus ensuring that everything is
selected, and then type...I don't use Windows enough to know what to advise
to ensure that invisible things on either end of the text (eg...a whole
second line) are removed).

  --John


At 9:51 -0700 6/29/2001, Andreas Freyvogel wrote:
>when I send a message to a list that needs to have approval prior to its
>being sent out, I do receive a response email telling me that it has arrived
>and is waiting approval. Now, does it make sense to conclude that if it can
>send me an email this way that it should by all accounts be able to send
>email for approval notification as well?
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: mailman-users-admin at python.org
>[mailto:mailman-users-admin at python.org]On Behalf Of John W Baxter
>Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2001 7:20 PM
>To: mailman-users at python.org
>Subject: RE: [Mailman-Users] messages pending approval
>
>
>At 17:04 -0700 6/28/2001, Andreas Freyvogel wrote:
>>I do have that option checked off as "yes" but for some reason I am not
>>receiving any notifications. Could there be something else that I am
>>missing?
>
>If you are also not receiving the once-per-day notifications, then mailman
>is unable to send mail to you as the list administrator.  There could be an
>alias in the way, or some other problem.  Step one would seem to be to
>verify that you can send a message to the address listed in
>   General Options-->The list admin's email address....
>
>Having a role account listed there is fine (and probably better than a
>personal address)...having it a role account which aliases (or Exim magic)
>send back to Mailman is not (learned the hard way here on a test list).
>
>   --John
>
>--
>John Baxter   jwblist at olympus.net      Port Ludlow, WA, USA
>
>------------------------------------------------------
>Mailman-Users maillist  -  Mailman-Users at python.org
>http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
>
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------
>Mailman-Users maillist  -  Mailman-Users at python.org
>http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users

-- 
John Baxter   jwblist at olympus.net      Port Ludlow, WA, USA



From lightningkid at mac.com  Sat Jun 30 00:57:59 2001
From: lightningkid at mac.com (Matt Martin)
Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 17:57:59 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] re
Message-ID: <B7627227.22F%lightningkid@mac.com>

Hello,
How do I make my list read only, so the members can't reply to the entire
list. So it will act like a newsletter.

Thanks,
Matt Martin 



From akshay at himline.com  Sat Jun 30 06:18:08 2001
From: akshay at himline.com (Akshay Guleria)
Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 09:48:08 +0530
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Posting messages on the web
Message-ID: <NFBBIKOFPFGPBMBGMAFGIEMPCIAA.akshay@himline.com>

Is there a facility to allow postings on through the web ie post a new
message or reply to a message?
I have seen it on sourceforge and a couple of other sites too.

I am using mailman ver.2.0

-Akshay
Tel: +91-177-226275



From claw at kanga.nu  Sat Jun 30 08:45:01 2001
From: claw at kanga.nu (J C Lawrence)
Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 23:45:01 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Posting messages on the web 
In-Reply-To: Message from "Akshay Guleria" <akshay@himline.com> 
   of "Sat, 30 Jun 2001 09:48:08 +0530." <NFBBIKOFPFGPBMBGMAFGIEMPCIAA.akshay@himline.com> 
References: <NFBBIKOFPFGPBMBGMAFGIEMPCIAA.akshay@himline.com> 
Message-ID: <31546.993883501@kanga.nu>

On Sat, 30 Jun 2001 09:48:08 +0530 
Akshay Guleria <akshay at himline.com> wrote:

> Is there a facility to allow postings on through the web ie post a
> new message or reply to a message?  

Not in Mailman, no.

> I have seen it on sourceforge and a couple of other sites too.

You can accomplish this via other external tools such as MHonArc and
PHP asi "ve done here:

  http://www.kanga.nu/lists/archives/

RCs for that setup can be found here:

  ftp://ftp.kanga.nu/pub/Kanga.Nu/WebArchives/

-- 
J C Lawrence                                             claw at kanga.nu
---------(*)                                http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/
I never claimed to be human.



From alragom at yahoo.com  Sat Jun 30 11:24:14 2001
From: alragom at yahoo.com (Firas R.)
Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 05:24:14 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] RE: : Nothing happens !
In-Reply-To: <200106292015.f5TKFCh15823@plaidworks.com>
Message-ID: <HPELKDHLAMAPOAHIGGNCAEHICBAA.alragom@yahoo.com>

error_log :

[Sun Jul  1 05:43:18 2001] [notice] suEXEC mechanism enabled (wrapper:
/usr/sbin/suexec)
[Sun Jul  1 05:43:19 2001] [error] [client 146.115.26.14] Premature end of
script headers: /home2/mailman/cgi-bin/admin

acces_log :

-----Original Message-----
From: Chuq Von Rospach [mailto:chuqui at plaidworks.com]
Sent: Friday, June 29, 2001 4:24 PM
To: Firas R.
Cc: Chuq Von Rospach; mailman-users-admin at python.org
Subject: Re: : Nothing happens !



On Friday, June 29, 2001, at 01:17 PM, Firas R. wrote:

> Checking apache's logs I found the following :
>
> error_log:[Sat Jun 30 16:22:25 2001] [error] [client 207.172.11.232]
> Premature end of script headers: /home2/mailman/cgi-bin/admin
> suexec_log:[2001-06-30 16:22:25]: directory is writable by others:
> (/home2/mailman/cgi-bin)
>
> Is this an Apache problem or is it related to the scripts themselves ?
>

Take a look at the error message. What does the phrase "directory is
writable by others"  mean?



Chuq Von Rospach, Internet Gnome <http://www.chuqui.com>
[<chuqui at plaidworks.com> = <me at chuqui.com> = <chuq at apple.com>]
Yes, yes, I've finally finished my home page. Lucky you.

How about never?  Is never good for you?


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com




From alragom at yahoo.com  Sat Jun 30 11:39:40 2001
From: alragom at yahoo.com (Firas R.)
Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 05:39:40 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] RE: : Nothing happens !
In-Reply-To: <200106292015.f5TKFCh15823@plaidworks.com>
Message-ID: <HPELKDHLAMAPOAHIGGNCMEHICBAA.alragom@yahoo.com>

Sorry about that last posting, I guess I was a little trigger happy ....

Looking at the error found in apache's suexec_log I'd assume that
/home2/mailman/cgi-bin  would have permissions
rwxrwsrwx   but as you can see below, only the owner and mailman's group
have write permissions to the cgi-bin directory.

Anyone know what the cause of this error is ?

Thanks a lot,
Firas

####


drwxrwsr-x   2 admin    mailman      1024 Jul  1 05:39
/home2/mailman/cgi-bin/


error_log :

[Sun Jul  1 05:43:18 2001] [notice] suEXEC mechanism enabled (wrapper:
/usr/sbin/suexec)
[Sun Jul  1 05:43:19 2001] [error] [client 146.115.26.14] Premature end of
script headers: /home2/mailman/cgi-bin/admin

acces_log :

[01/Jul/2001:05:43:19 -0400] "GET /mailman/admin/test HTTP/1.1" 500 534

suexec_log :

[2001-07-01 05:43:19]: directory is writable by others:
(/home2/mailman/cgi-bin)



-----Original Message-----
From: Chuq Von Rospach [mailto:chuqui at plaidworks.com]
Sent: Friday, June 29, 2001 4:24 PM
To: Firas R.
Cc: Chuq Von Rospach; mailman-users-admin at python.org
Subject: Re: : Nothing happens !



On Friday, June 29, 2001, at 01:17 PM, Firas R. wrote:

> Checking apache's logs I found the following :
>
> error_log:[Sat Jun 30 16:22:25 2001] [error] [client 207.172.11.232]
> Premature end of script headers: /home2/mailman/cgi-bin/admin
> suexec_log:[2001-06-30 16:22:25]: directory is writable by others:
> (/home2/mailman/cgi-bin)
>
> Is this an Apache problem or is it related to the scripts themselves ?
>

Take a look at the error message. What does the phrase "directory is
writable by others"  mean?



Chuq Von Rospach, Internet Gnome <http://www.chuqui.com>
[<chuqui at plaidworks.com> = <me at chuqui.com> = <chuq at apple.com>]
Yes, yes, I've finally finished my home page. Lucky you.

How about never?  Is never good for you?


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com




From nb at thinkcoach.com  Sat Jun 30 12:38:02 2001
From: nb at thinkcoach.com (Norbert Bollow)
Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 12:38:02 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: Mailman & Sendmail problems
In-Reply-To: <15164.42519.289828.125880@anthem.wooz.org> (barry@digicool.com)
References: <E15FqJ3-0005Ga-00@mail.python.org>
	<3B3C190A.EB7BF1ED@nleaudio.com> <15164.42519.289828.125880@anthem.wooz.org>
Message-ID: <200106301038.f5UAc2o17899@quill.local>

> It has to do this, or it'll busy loop.  I don't know of a good,
> portable way to wait on new files showing up in a directory.

How about having the process which puts messages into the queue
send a SIGUSR (or whatever) signal to qrunner?

Greetings, Norbert.

-- 
Norbert Bollow, Weidlistr.18, CH-8624 Gruet  (near Zurich, Switzerland)
Your own domain with all your Mailman lists: $15/month http://cisto.com
Business Coaching for Internet Entrepreneurs ---> http://thinkcoach.com
Tel +41 1 972 20 59      Fax +41 1 972 20 69      nb at freedevelopers.net



From altroweb at yahoo.com  Sat Jun 30 13:52:36 2001
From: altroweb at yahoo.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?Giancarlo=20Pinerolo?=)
Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 13:52:36 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] restricting post to members in a mail-news gateway
Message-ID: <20010630115236.62565.qmail@web11404.mail.yahoo.com>

What is the effect of 'restrict_post_to_members' in a
mail-news gateway list?
It seems that it not only requires that posters to the
list be member of it, but also posters to the
newsgroup be member of the list.

In practice I get a 'posting by a non-member'
error-reply to every post sent to the newsgroup, not
only to those sent via the list.

Is is correct like that?

How can I restrict relaying to the newsgroup only to
messages sent by memberrs, but not the other way
round?


Thanks

Giancarlo

______________________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Il tuo indirizzo gratis e per sempre @yahoo.it su http://mail.yahoo.it



From altroweb at yahoo.com  Sat Jun 30 14:11:34 2001
From: altroweb at yahoo.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?Giancarlo=20Pinerolo?=)
Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 14:11:34 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] restrict_pst_to_members in mail-news GW side effects
Message-ID: <20010630121134.61323.qmail@web11403.mail.yahoo.com>

 
The formentioned settings (that is setting
'restrict_post_to_members' in a mail-news gateway
list) has a very undesirable effect:

not only messages sent by non-members to the list
address gets a message that alerts he's been trying to
post to a list without being member of it.

Everyone that post to the newsgroup by his on way (not
via the list address) gets that message too!

Is this a bug or is there a particular combinantion of
settings I am missing for this?

Thanks

Giancarlo

______________________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Il tuo indirizzo gratis e per sempre @yahoo.it su http://mail.yahoo.it



From pug at pug.net  Sat Jun 30 14:45:06 2001
From: pug at pug.net (Pug Bainter)
Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 07:45:06 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] restrict_pst_to_members in mail-news GW side effects
In-Reply-To: <20010630121134.61323.qmail@web11403.mail.yahoo.com>; from altroweb@yahoo.com on Sat, Jun 30, 2001 at 02:11:34PM +0200
References: <20010630121134.61323.qmail@web11403.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20010630074506.B17756@stardock.pug.net>

Giancarlo Pinerolo (altroweb at yahoo.com) said something that sounded like:
> Everyone that post to the newsgroup by his on way (not
> via the list address) gets that message too!

That is correct unless they are list members. Those that prefer to use
USENET news I tell to sign up and set their settings to 'nomail'.

> Is this a bug or is there a particular combinantion of
> settings I am missing for this?

Well if they are not a list member, it will bounce. That's how you configured
it.

Ciao,

-- 
Pug Bainter                                        |        AMD, Inc.
System Engineer, MTS                               |      Mail Stop 625
 Pug.Bainter at amd.com      |  pug at pug.net           |  5900 E. Ben White Blvd
 Phone: (512) 602-0364    |  Fax: (512) 602-6970   |     Austin, TX 78741
Note: The views may not reflect my employers, or even my own for that matter.



From pug at pug.net  Sat Jun 30 14:46:07 2001
From: pug at pug.net (Pug Bainter)
Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 07:46:07 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] restricting post to members in a mail-news gateway
In-Reply-To: <20010630115236.62565.qmail@web11404.mail.yahoo.com>; from altroweb@yahoo.com on Sat, Jun 30, 2001 at 01:52:36PM +0200
References: <20010630115236.62565.qmail@web11404.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20010630074607.C17756@stardock.pug.net>

Giancarlo Pinerolo (altroweb at yahoo.com) said something that sounded like:
> How can I restrict relaying to the newsgroup only to
> messages sent by memberrs, but not the other way
> round?

I've never looked at this and prefer not to. The volume of SPAM that comes
from newsgroups is high enough that I don't want to relay it.

Ciao,

-- 
Pug Bainter                                        |        AMD, Inc.
System Engineer, MTS                               |      Mail Stop 625
 Pug.Bainter at amd.com      |  pug at pug.net           |  5900 E. Ben White Blvd
 Phone: (512) 602-0364    |  Fax: (512) 602-6970   |     Austin, TX 78741
Note: The views may not reflect my employers, or even my own for that matter.



From lists at xpec.com  Sat Jun 30 15:24:49 2001
From: lists at xpec.com (J.D. Bronson)
Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 08:24:49 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] permissions on 'error' log file?
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010630081958.00a77f28@sparc-central.com>

Bug in Mailman version 2.0.5
We're sorry, we hit a bug!


Please inform the webmaster for this site of this problem. Printing of 
traceback and other system information has been explicitly inhibited, but 
the webmaster can find this information in the Mailman error logs.



When trying to go to the 'admin' page to view the lists..... I get the above!

...I ran check_perms as 'mailman' and did the -f too.....I still get the 
above message!

Mailman runs as mailmain:mailman and the webserver as nobody:nobody...

I fixed this by overwriting the following preset permissions:

chgrp nobody /home/mailman/logs/error
chmod 664 /home/mailman/logs/error

..it seems the default permissions do not allow 'something' to write to the 
error log, even though there is no error!

I am seeking a more appropriate fix for this or an explanation as to why I 
had to do this?  -> check_perms I would have thought would fix this quite well.

Ideas?





-- 
J.D. Bronson
Aurora Health Care
Information Systems
Milwaukee Wisconsin USA
Main Office: 414.978.8282




From barry at digicool.com  Sat Jun 30 17:25:22 2001
From: barry at digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 11:25:22 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Where's the CHANGELOG?
References: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0106291449190.32319-100000@lager.engsoc.carleton.ca>
Message-ID: <15165.61282.734683.552346@anthem.wooz.org>

>>>>> "mm" == matt mcparland <matt at engsoc.org> writes:

    mm> Is there any place that I could find a changelog for Mailman?
    mm> I just want reasons to upgrade to incremental version changes.

All the gory details...

http://cvs.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/mailman/mailman/NEWS?rev=2.11&content-type=text/vnd.viewcvs-markup

-Barry



From dcuming at tpg.com.au  Sat Jun 30 11:01:44 2001
From: dcuming at tpg.com.au (dcuming)
Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 18:31:44 +0930
Subject: [Mailman-Users] (no subject)
Message-ID: <005501c10143$49cea2c0$a7881dcb@h0x6t4>

If you could help me, I want a program that sends my email list out and not show other email addresses in the mail to each of the members.  Does outlook do this.  Do you know of a program. I have windows.  I also want it to send html.

Best Regards
deane cuming
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From chuqui at plaidworks.com  Sat Jun 30 17:34:18 2001
From: chuqui at plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach)
Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 08:34:18 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: Mailman & Sendmail problems
In-Reply-To: <200106301038.f5UAc2o17899@quill.local>
Message-ID: <200106301525.f5UFPlh31290@plaidworks.com>

On Saturday, June 30, 2001, at 03:38 AM, Norbert Bollow wrote:

> How about having the process which puts messages into the queue
> send a SIGUSR (or whatever) signal to qrunner?

Do what biff or INND do. Create a socket somewhere, and when you want to 
signal qrunner, write to it. qrunner's idle loop can then select() off 
the socket and go to sleep until soemthing gets written to it.


--
Chuq Von Rospach, Internet Gnome <http://www.chuqui.com>
[<chuqui at plaidworks.com> = <me at chuqui.com> = <chuq at apple.com>]
Yes, yes, I've finally finished my home page. Lucky you.

Any connection between your reality and mine
is purely coincidental.





From barry at digicool.com  Sat Jun 30 17:39:13 2001
From: barry at digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 11:39:13 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] NNTP-Posting-Host not of the sender, in mail-news gateway
References: <20010629223804.76408.qmail@web11401.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <15165.62113.369749.785444@anthem.wooz.org>

>>>>> "i" == iso  <altroweb at yahoo.com> writes:

    i> In practice I've been subtly accused of giving a way
    i> to spammers to forward messages to a newsgroup through
    i> the use of mailman.

LOL!

Why would spammers try to forward their messages through Mailman, when
it's so much easier to just post their spam to news?

-Barry



From altroweb at yahoo.com  Sat Jun 30 23:48:20 2001
From: altroweb at yahoo.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?Giancarlo=20Pinerolo?=)
Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 23:48:20 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: NNTP-Posting-Host not of the sender, in mail-news gateway
In-Reply-To: <15165.62113.369749.785444@anthem.wooz.org>
Message-ID: <20010630214820.26684.qmail@web11408.mail.yahoo.com>

In practice, for using mailman as a mail-news gateway,
there should be an 'X-author:' or an 'X-Mail-From:' or
a 'NNTP-Posting-Host:' header that somehow contains
the IP of the original mail message, otherwise the
gateway becomes an 'anonymizer', as the message that
gets to the newsgroup looks as fully originated from
the server running mailman. 

Also the 'X-Complaints:' header, I think, should point
to the mailman host, not the news server.

I tell you this because I've been facing the evidence
of a couple spam messages sent through my mailman
mail-news gateway, pointed to me by some people at the
newsgroup out there.
 
And, being 'restrict -post-to-members' an unusable
feature in a mail-news gateway, I had no other choice
than turning the 'gate mail-to-news' feature off.

Giancarlo

 --- "Barry A. Warsaw" <barry at digicool.com> ha
scritto: > 
> >>>>> "i" == iso  <altroweb at yahoo.com> writes:
> 
>     i> In practice I've been subtly accused of
> giving a way
>     i> to spammers to forward messages to a
> newsgroup through
>     i> the use of mailman.
> 
> LOL!
> 
> Why would spammers try to forward their messages
> through Mailman, when
> it's so much easier to just post their spam to news?
> 
> -Barry
> 
>
------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users maillist  -  Mailman-Users at python.org
>
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users 


______________________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Il tuo indirizzo gratis e per sempre @yahoo.it su http://mail.yahoo.it



From giancarlo at navigare.net  Sat Jun 30 18:06:22 2001
From: giancarlo at navigare.net (giancarlo)
Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 18:06:22 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: NNTP-Posting-Host not of the sender, in mail-news gateway
References: <20010629223804.76408.qmail@web11401.mail.yahoo.com> <15165.62113.369749.785444@anthem.wooz.org>
Message-ID: <3B3DF8FE.BC5C7E15@navigare.net>

I know, and I tried to explain this to the people in the newsgroup, but
you know, it's an unconfortable position when you have to defend
yourself sometimes..

But it is a fact that a mail-news gateway actually acts as an
'anonymizing resender', because the message that gets to the newsroup
comes from the mailman host and nothing is kept of the original message
headers. Shoul anyone complain to 'abuse', it's the mailman host that
did it all.

Anyway, I then tried to 'limit posts to list members', which looks as a
wise idea, but that too has some limit, as mailan makes no difference
between posts coming from the 'mail side' and from those coming from the
'news side'.  In practice every news poster out there in the world
should be subscribed to the list or he will get a 'not allowed to post'
message from mailman.  This doesn't seem too right to me.

It's someway difficult this all, and i decided to close relying to the
news, and amen!

Ciao.

Giancarlo


Barry A. Warsaw wrote:
> 
> >>>>> "i" == iso  <altroweb at yahoo.com> writes:
> 
>     i> In practice I've been subtly accused of giving a way
>     i> to spammers to forward messages to a newsgroup through
>     i> the use of mailman.
> 
> LOL!
> 
> Why would spammers try to forward their messages through Mailman, when
> it's so much easier to just post their spam to news?
> 
> -Barry



From dsa at pucesa.edu.ec  Sat Jun 30 23:06:44 2001
From: dsa at pucesa.edu.ec (diego)
Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 16:06:44 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Using Mailman
Message-ID: <000801c101a8$91de19f0$a3542e40@pucesa.edu.ec>

Please, What do i have to do to run Mailman?
I have finished the install process, but and now?
How can I run Mailman?.

Thank you.
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From jayson at delrio.com  Wed Jun 20 03:36:23 2001
From: jayson at delrio.com (Jayson)
Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 20:36:23 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] (no subject)
Message-ID: <008801c0f929$6a937d40$1dde7341@d1n7a>

python     python1.5  
[root at mrabuse mail]# python
Python 1.5.2 (#1, Dec  8 1999, 21:20:51)  [GCC 2.95.2 19991024 (release)] on linux-i386
Copyright 1991-1995 Stichting Mathematisch Centrum, Amsterdam
>>> 


No errors are given but when i send mail to say aarchontest at aarchonmud.com
it recieves, it says its delivering it

Oct 24 19:12:34 mrabuse sendmail[26834]: f9P0CYw26834: from=<jayson at delrio.com>, size=1389, class=0, nrcpts=1, msgid=<00cb01c0f91e$32fc3b20$1dde7341 at d1n7a>, proto=ESMTP, daemon=IPv4, relay=delrios01.delrio.com [64.132.18.247]
Oct 24 19:12:35 mrabuse sendmail[26835]: f9P0CYw26834: to="|/home/mailman/mail/wrapper mailcmd aarchontest", ctladdr=<aarchontest-request at aarchonmud.com> (2/0), delay=00:00:01, xdelay=00:00:01, mailer=prog, pri=30716, dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sen

Yet the mail is not recieved so im assuming its not delivered. Any Ideas?
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From jayson at delrio.com  Wed Jun 20 02:27:23 2001
From: jayson at delrio.com (Jayson)
Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 19:27:23 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] help?
Message-ID: <00de01c0f91f$c7333c20$1dde7341@d1n7a>

python     python1.5  
[root at mrabuse mail]# python
Python 1.5.2 (#1, Dec  8 1999, 21:20:51)  [GCC 2.95.2 19991024 (release)] on linux-i386
Copyright 1991-1995 Stichting Mathematisch Centrum, Amsterdam
>>> 


No errors are given but when i send mail to say aarchontest at aarchonmud.com
it recieves, it says its delivering it

Oct 24 19:12:34 mrabuse sendmail[26834]: f9P0CYw26834: from=<jayson at delrio.com>, size=1389, class=0, nrcpts=1, msgid=<00cb01c0f91e$32fc3b20$1dde7341 at d1n7a>, proto=ESMTP, daemon=IPv4, relay=delrios01.delrio.com [64.132.18.247]
Oct 24 19:12:35 mrabuse sendmail[26835]: f9P0CYw26834: to="|/home/mailman/mail/wrapper mailcmd aarchontest", ctladdr=<aarchontest-request at aarchonmud.com> (2/0), delay=00:00:01, xdelay=00:00:01, mailer=prog, pri=30716, dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sen

Yet the mail is not recieved so im assuming its not delivered. Any Ideas?
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