From dereks at kd-dev.com  Sun Oct  1 02:12:11 2000
From: dereks at kd-dev.com (Derek Simkowiak)
Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2000 17:12:11 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] newlist patch for beta 5
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0009301658030.6283-200000@archer.kd-dev.com>


     Hello,
	Newlist has a problem.

	When run in interactive mode, it will output the necessary entries
for the Sendmail 'aliases' file.  That is very nice.

	However, I am not usually in an X-Window session, so I can't use a
mouse to cut'n'paste those entries into my /etc/aliases.  It's very
annoying.

	The attached version will print all *informational* messages to
stderr, not stdout.  Only the 'aliases' entries are printed to
stdout.  So now, all I need to do is

./newlist >> /etc/aliases 

	(or ./newlist > tempfile.txt ; cat tempfile >> /etc/aliases.  You
get the idea.)  I will still get prompted (if in interactive mode), but
the prompts will be printed to stderr, and all the aliases will go to
stdout (and hence redirect into my file).

	If I run in non-interactive mode, and put all the necessary
variables on the command line, then the only output (to stdout) is the
aliases.  All other behaviour is unchanged.

	This also makes it much easier to write automated shell scripts
and CGI programs to create new lists, because there's no messy sed to
parse out the informational messages.

	The attached file is the new version of newlist, created off
2.0beta5.  Feel free to create a diff of it if that is your preferred
format.

	Note that I presented this same patch for beta2 but it was never
incorporated, so I assume the maintainers aren't interested in this
feature.  In short: You have to grab this and keep updating it yourself if
you want to use it in future versions of MailMan.


Thanks,
Derek Simkowiak
dereks at kd-dev.com
-------------- next part --------------
#! /usr/bin/env python
#
# Copyright (C) 1998,1999,2000 by the Free Software Foundation, Inc.
#
# This program is free software; you can redistribute it and/or
# modify it under the terms of the GNU General Public License
# as published by the Free Software Foundation; either version 2
# of the License, or (at your option) any later version.
# 
# This program is distributed in the hope that it will be useful,
# but WITHOUT ANY WARRANTY; without even the implied warranty of
# MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE.  See the
# GNU General Public License for more details.
# 
# You should have received a copy of the GNU General Public License
# along with this program; if not, write to the Free Software 
# Foundation, Inc., 59 Temple Place - Suite 330, Boston, MA 02111-1307, USA.

"""Create a new, unpopulated mailing list.

  newlist <list-name> <list-admin's-address> <admin-password> <immediate>

You can specify as many of the arguments as you want on the command line. 
The optional <immediate> argument, if present, means to send out the notice 
immediately.  Otherwise, the script hangs pending input, to give time for
the person creating the list to customize it before sending the admin an
email notice about the existence of the new list.

Note that list-names are forced to lowercase.
"""

import sys
import os
import string
import time

import paths
from Mailman import mm_cfg
from Mailman import MailList
from Mailman import Utils
from Mailman import Errors
from Mailman import Message
from Mailman.Handlers import HandlerAPI
from Mailman.Crypt import crypt
from Mailman.pythonlib import getpass


ALIASTEMPLATE = '''
## %(listname)s mailing list
## created: %(date)s %(user)s
%(list)s "|%(wrapper)s post %(listname)s"
%(admin)s "|%(wrapper)s mailowner %(listname)s"
%(request)s "|%(wrapper)s mailcmd %(listname)s"
%(owner2)s %(listname)s-admin
'''



def getusername():
    username = os.environ.get('USER') or os.environ.get('LOGNAME')
    if not username:
        import pwd
        username = pwd.getpwuid(os.getuid())[0]
    if not username:
        username = '<unknown>'
    return username



def usage(code, msg=''):
    print __doc__
    if msg:
        print msg
    sys.exit(code)



def raw_input(prompt=''):

		# A raw_input() replacement that doesn't save the string in the
		# GNU readline history, and prints the prompt to stderr
		import sys
		prompt = str(prompt)
         
		if prompt:
				sys.stderr.write(prompt)
		line = sys.stdin.readline()
		if not line:
				raise EOFError
		if line[-1] == '\n':
				line = line[:-1]
		return line


def main(argv):
    if len(argv) > 1:
	listname = argv[1]
    else:
	listname = raw_input("Enter the name of the list: ")
    listname = string.lower(listname)

    if '@' in listname:
        usage(1, 'List name must not include "@": ' + listname)

    if Utils.list_exists(listname):
        usage(1, 'List already exists: ' + listname)

    if len(argv) > 2:
	owner_mail = argv[2]
    else:
	owner_mail = raw_input(
	    "Enter the email of the person running the list: ")
    if len(argv) > 3:
	list_pw = argv[3]
    else:
        # A simple hack to have getpass() print to stderr, not stdout
        temp = sys.stdout
        sys.stdout = sys.stderr
        list_pw = getpass.getpass("Initial %s password: " % listname)
        sys.stdout = temp

    mlist = MailList.MailList()
    try:
        pw = crypt(list_pw , Utils.GetRandomSeed())
        # guarantee that all newly created files have the proper permission.
        # proper group ownership should be assured by the autoconf script
        # enforcing that all directories have the group sticky bit set
        oldmask = os.umask(002)
        try:
            try:
                mlist.Create(listname, owner_mail, pw)
            finally:
                os.umask(oldmask)
        except Errors.MMBadEmailError:
            usage(1, 'Bad owner email address: ' + owner_mail)
        except Errors.MMListAlreadyExistsError:
            usage(1, 'List already exists: ' + listname)

        if len(argv) < 4:
            sys.stderr.write ("\nEntry for aliases file:\n");

        print ALIASTEMPLATE % {
            'listname': listname,
            'list'    : "%-24s" % (listname + ":"),
            'wrapper' : '%s/wrapper' % mm_cfg.WRAPPER_DIR,
            'admin'   : "%-24s" % ("%s-admin:" % listname),
            'request' : "%-24s" % ("%s-request:" % listname),
            'owner2'  : "%-24s" % ("%s-owner:" % listname),
            'date'    : time.strftime('%d-%b-%Y', time.localtime(time.time())),
            'user'    : getusername(),
            }

        if len(argv) < 5:
            sys.stderr.write ("Hit enter to continue with %s owner notification..."
                   % listname),
            sys.stdin.readline()
        # send the notice to the list owner
        text = Utils.maketext(
            'newlist.txt',
            {'listname'    : listname,
             'password'    : list_pw, 
             'admin_url'   : mlist.GetScriptURL('admin', absolute=1), 
             'listinfo_url': mlist.GetScriptURL('listinfo', absolute=1),
             'requestaddr' : "%s-request@%s" % (listname, mlist.host_name),
             'hostname'    : mlist.host_name,
             })
        msg = Message.UserNotification(owner_mail,
                                       'mailman-owner@' + mlist.host_name,
                                       'Your new mailing list: ' + listname,
                                       text)
        HandlerAPI.DeliverToUser(mlist, msg)
    finally:
        mlist.Unlock()


if __name__ == '__main__':
    main(sys.argv)

From jarrell at vt.edu  Sun Oct  1 04:36:31 2000
From: jarrell at vt.edu (Ron Jarrell)
Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2000 22:36:31 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] newlist patch for beta 5
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0009301658030.6283-200000@archer.kd-dev.com>
Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20000930223517.02d21340@vtserf.cc.vt.edu>

>
>        Note that I presented this same patch for beta2 but it was never
>incorporated, so I assume the maintainers aren't interested in this
>feature.  In short: You have to grab this and keep updating it yourself if
>you want to use it in future versions of MailMan.

Did you put it up on sourceforge?  Barry's mailbox is pretty swamped, if the
patch didn't make it into the sourceforge patch database, chances are he just
lost track of it.




From wayne at digitalwebtech.net  Sun Oct  1 22:09:05 2000
From: wayne at digitalwebtech.net (Wayne Ringling)
Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2000 16:09:05 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Partitioning of Hd's for dedicated mailman system.
Message-ID: <ICENJBAIJDEJHAFJKEGBMEHACBAA.wayne@digitalwebtech.net>

 I am going to be setting up a new rh7.0 system with two 7 gig ide disks.
What would be a efficient way to divide the disks up.  I plan on putting
each one on a different controller. ie hda on primary master and hdc on
secondary master to allow maximum through put.  The system has a 10/100 nic,
Celron 300, 128 ram. Any opinions would be greatly appreciated. Please reply
off list as I am away from my normal email box.  But if you want to also
reply on list that ok too.. it will be a while before I can get to that box.

Wayne




From david at simscomputing.com  Mon Oct  2 01:21:57 2000
From: david at simscomputing.com (david sims)
Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2000 17:21:57 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Cannot save admin options -- here's my fix
Message-ID: <00100117270006.20878@blue>

hi, I've been struggling with the problem that others have experienced where if
you save some Admin options, the changes don't take and you're rerouted to the
password page, over and over again.

I debugged this using the 'lynx' web browser. Lynx would say something like
"Accept invalid cookie /cgi-bin/mailman as prefix for /mailman/listinfo?' when
I went to the Mailman admin page.

It occured to me that, for whatever reason, Mailman was putting out cookies in
a fixed format "/cgi-bin/mailman" and that I had to make sure my Apache setup
conformed to what Mailman wanted.

So I changed ScriptAlias in /etc/apache/httpd.conf to read:

ScriptAlias /cgi-bin/mailman/ /usr/lib/mailman/cgi-bin/

/usr/lib/mailman is where I have Mailman installed. After that change, I tested
it once more with Lynx and it worked. Then it started working under Netscape as
well.

So now the cookies that get put out by Mailman match up to the URLs that the
browsers are seeing.

hope that helps someone,
david

-- 
David Sims             david at simscomputing.com
Sims Computing, Inc.     www.simscomputing.com



From richh at home.com  Mon Oct  2 04:26:12 2000
From: richh at home.com (Rich Hall)
Date: Sun, 01 Oct 2000 22:26:12 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Config errors
Message-ID: <39D7F244.3EEEDA55@home.com>

Why do I keep getting this????
Traceback (innermost last):
  File "/home/mailman/cron/qrunner", line 271, in ?
    lock.lock(timeout=0.5)
  File "/home/mailman/Mailman/LockFile.py", line 219, in lock
    self.__write()
  File "/home/mailman/Mailman/LockFile.py", line 346, in __write
    fp = open(self.__tmpfname, 'w')
IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied:
'/home/mailman/locks/qrunner.lock.reality-studios.com.1124'






From chuqui at plaidworks.com  Mon Oct  2 05:00:55 2000
From: chuqui at plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach)
Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2000 20:00:55 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Config errors
In-Reply-To: <39D7F244.3EEEDA55@home.com>
References: <39D7F244.3EEEDA55@home.com>
Message-ID: <p04330111b5fdaad5d091@[209.239.169.197]>

At 10:26 PM -0400 10/1/00, Rich Hall wrote:

>   File "/home/mailman/Mailman/LockFile.py", line 346, in __write
>     fp = open(self.__tmpfname, 'w')
>IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied:
>'/home/mailman/locks/qrunner.lock.reality-studios.com.1124'

you have a permission problem in your directory structure. did you 
run check_perms?

-- 
Chuq Von Rospach - Plaidworks Consulting (mailto:chuqui at plaidworks.com)
Apple Mail List Gnome (mailto:chuq at apple.com)

You seem a decent fellow. I hate to die.



From clarkie at clarkie.cc  Mon Oct  2 06:02:40 2000
From: clarkie at clarkie.cc (Geoff)
Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2000 00:02:40 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] question about reply to.
Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.0.20001001235749.009c1460@127.0.0.1>

Hello,

         I just joined and I wanted to introduce my self and say Hello. My 
name is Geoff and I'm just started setting up mailman for a list manager. I 
just found myself wondering if it's possible to make mailman set the 
Reply-To: header to both the list and to the message poster.

         Also has anyone had any problems with Hotmail and their Inbox 
protector? I am having Hotmail users have msg's from my list being put into 
spam box thing. Any thoughts?

         I am sorry if I am asking questions that are a frequent but I 
could find anything on the mailman sites that I found.

Thank you,

Geoff




From chuqui at plaidworks.com  Mon Oct  2 06:37:18 2000
From: chuqui at plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach)
Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2000 21:37:18 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] question about reply to.
In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.0.20001001235749.009c1460@127.0.0.1>
References: <5.0.0.25.0.20001001235749.009c1460@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <p04330112b5fdc1631d04@[209.239.169.197]>

>I just found myself wondering if it's possible to make mailman set 
>the Reply-To: header to both the list and to the message poster.

I don't think that would work, and I'm pretty sure it violates the RFCs.

-- 
Chuq Von Rospach - Plaidworks Consulting (mailto:chuqui at plaidworks.com)
Apple Mail List Gnome (mailto:chuq at apple.com)

You seem a decent fellow. I hate to die.



From rogerk at QueerNet.ORG  Mon Oct  2 07:08:35 2000
From: rogerk at QueerNet.ORG (Roger B.A. Klorese)
Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2000 22:08:35 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] question about reply to.
In-Reply-To: <p04330112b5fdc1631d04@[209.239.169.197]>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSI.4.21.0010012207070.13875-100000@castro.queernet.org>

On Sun, 1 Oct 2000, Chuq Von Rospach wrote:
> I don't think that would work, and I'm pretty sure it violates the RFCs.

I always thought multiple Reply-To violated the RFCs as well, but I
explored it in my time at Sendmail, and couldn't find support for that
opinion in any non-obsolete RFC; in fact, I found examples or BNF
specifically supporting multiple addresses. 

-- 
ROGER B.A. KLORESE                                          rogerk at QueerNet.ORG
PO Box 14309		                                San Francisco, CA 94114
"There is only one real blasphemy -- the refusal of joy!"       -- Paul Rudnick




From chuqui at plaidworks.com  Mon Oct  2 07:18:47 2000
From: chuqui at plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach)
Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2000 22:18:47 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] A funny thing happened...
Message-ID: <p04330116b5fdc9d618f9@[209.239.169.197]>

on the ay to the mail list.

Since it's the first of the month, my sites sent out the monthly 
subscription notice. And I had a user complain about the site sending 
out the list password in cleartext (my first thought was "how ELSE am 
I supposed to send you the password, given that the system has no 
encryption in it?" but I bit my tongue.)

He demanded I fix this, and when I declined, he unsubscribed in a bit 
of a huff.

I bring this up for a couple of reasons:

1) has anyone else ever run into something like this? My philosophy 
is that you're more than welcome to get upset about things I think 
are silly (but I don't promise to take it as seriously as you do, 
just to try to not snicker in your hearing), but I just don't get it. 
Especially since the site is pretty good at telling you NOT to use 
sensitive passwords. But -- is this guy off the chart, or have I just 
been lucky?

2) this probably should be chalked up as a vote for "making passwords 
optional" for lists. Personally, I think the added security passwords 
add is overwhelmed by the confusion and complexity they cause the 
user, so I'd like to turn them off. There are lists where they could 
be useful, but I could live without them...

My feeling is this guy isn't something to overly worry about, but I 
bring it up in case someone else thinks of something I've missed...

-- 
Chuq Von Rospach - Plaidworks Consulting (mailto:chuqui at plaidworks.com)
Apple Mail List Gnome (mailto:chuq at apple.com)

You seem a decent fellow. I hate to die.



From rpinkett at media.mit.edu  Mon Oct  2 07:49:53 2000
From: rpinkett at media.mit.edu (Randal D. Pinkett)
Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2000 01:49:53 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Error Report
Message-ID: <2.2.32.20001002054953.0408d970@ml.media.mit.edu>

Greetings,

I just installed Mailman 1.1 with Python 1.5.2 on a Redhat Linux 6.2
machine, and receive the following error when I visited http://myserver/listinfo

--- beginning of output ---

Bug in Mailman version 1.1

Traceback:

Traceback (innermost last):
  File "/home/mailman/scripts/driver", line 112, in run_main
    main()
  File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/listinfo.py", line 40, in main
    FormatListinfoOverview()
  File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/listinfo.py", line 124, in
FormatListinfoOverview
    welcome_items = (welcome_items +
  File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Utils.py", line 424, in GetNestingLevel
    if path[0] <> '/':
IndexError: string index out of range

--- end of output

Any assistance would be greatly appreciated.

Randal Pinkett






From enigma at totse.com  Mon Oct  2 07:47:34 2000
From: enigma at totse.com (enigma)
Date: Sun, 01 Oct 2000 22:47:34 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Installing Mailman on separate mail and web servers
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20001001224734.0346d860@mail.totse.com>

I am trying to install mailman, but it appears from the docs that it has to
be installed on a machine that's running your SMTP, POP3, and WWW servers.
My mail server is a separate box from my web server. Am I screwed or is
there a way around this problem?


------------------------------------------------------------------------
enigma at totse.com       enigma at nirvananet.org       enigma at pigdog.org
http://www.totse.com   http://www.nirvananet.org   http://www.pigdog.org
NIRVANAnet(tm) Message Forums: http://www.totse.com/bin/bbs/Ultimate.cgi



From Nigel.Metheringham at VData.co.uk  Mon Oct  2 10:35:51 2000
From: Nigel.Metheringham at VData.co.uk (Nigel Metheringham)
Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2000 09:35:51 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] A funny thing happened... 
In-Reply-To: Message from Chuq Von Rospach <chuqui@plaidworks.com> 
   of "Sun, 01 Oct 2000 22:18:47 PDT." <p04330116b5fdc9d618f9@[209.239.169.197]> 
Message-ID: <E13g14h-00013X-00@rioja.localnet>

chuqui at plaidworks.com said:
> 1) has anyone else ever run into something like this? My philosophy
> is that you're more than welcome to get upset about things I think
> are silly (but I don't promise to take it as seriously as you do,
> just to try to not snicker in your hearing), but I just don't get it.
> Especially since the site is pretty good at telling you NOT to use
> sensitive passwords. But -- is this guy off the chart, or have I just
> been lucky?

I got one last month.  I'm expecting to get a complaint from the same 
guy today when the US wakes up and he gets to work.  [I less than 
tactfully copied my reply to their postmaster suggesting they may need 
a security audit if this guy has put a password he cares about into a 
web page]

> 2) this probably should be chalked up as a vote for "making passwords
> optional" for lists. Personally, I think the added security passwords
> add is overwhelmed by the confusion and complexity they cause the
> user, so I'd like to turn them off. There are lists where they could
> be useful, but I could live without them... 

In most cases I want them.
However I keep thinking about a change in terminology, and wondered if 
calling these things cookies (which unfortunately has privacy and 
similar negative connotations) or something other than a password, 
maybe we could help people understand that these are very minimal 
security procedures.

	Nigel.
-- 
[ - Opinions expressed are personal and may not be shared by VData - ]
[ Nigel Metheringham                  Nigel.Metheringham at VData.co.uk ]
[ Phone: +44 1423 850000                         Fax +44 1423 858866 ]





From tim at bookings.nl  Mon Oct  2 11:21:02 2000
From: tim at bookings.nl (tim)
Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 11:21:02 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Multiple domain lists
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0009291008340.12992-100000@tp.sf.opensales.com>; from tpepper@opensales.com on Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 10:20:59AM -0700
References: <E13ebBX-0000J9-00@rioja.localnet> <Pine.LNX.4.21.0009291008340.12992-100000@tp.sf.opensales.com>
Message-ID: <20001002112102.A3749@bnl20.ten.nl>

hello ...

yes, this is possible. Though, this needs to be setup in your:

1) MTA (virtual mapping)
2) httpd.conf (or whatever your sebserver uses) aliasing.

it is not difficult. 

t.

On Fri, Sep 29, 2000 at 10:20:59AM -0700, Tim Pepper wrote:
> On Thu, 28 Sep 2000, Nigel Metheringham wrote:
> 
> > For a small number of domains with unique listnames - ie 
> > listname at foo.com & listname at bar.com being the same list is not a real 
> > problem to you, you can just set the domain name in the list config and 
> > things work correctly - including by the way http://www.foo.com/mailman/
> > listinfo/ only listing the lists that match that domain.  This is 
> 
> Can you do this such that if multiple domain names (eg: foo.com and bar.com)
> point the same machine, that it will accept traffic on stuff to both
> list at foo.com and list at bar.com?  I was thinking of changing a machine name and
> don't want to hose all my existing users...want to continue accepting mail at
> the old name, but hopefully have it going out from the new name.  One of the
> posts in this thread made it sound like I can definitely control the name
> outgoing mail appears to come from.  I just want to make sure a single list
> will accept stuff sent to two machine names...
> 
> Tim
> 
> --
> *********************************************************
> *  tim.pepper at opensales dot com     * Venimus, Vidimus, *
> *  http://www.opensales.com         * Dolavimus         *
> *********************************************************
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users maillist  -  Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users

-- 
Artificial Intelligence stands no chance against Natural Stupidity.



From falken at grenville.co.uk  Mon Oct  2 14:05:07 2000
From: falken at grenville.co.uk (Thomas Chiverton)
Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 13:05:07 +0100 (BST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Cannot save admin options -- here's my fix
In-Reply-To: <00100117270006.20878@blue>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0010021304010.7546-100000@penguin.grenville.co.uk>

Yesterday at 17:21 david sims said:

> It occured to me that, for whatever reason, Mailman was putting out cookies in
> a fixed format "/cgi-bin/mailman" and that I had to make sure my Apache setup
> conformed to what Mailman wanted.

I rearanged the ScriptAlies' and default_url's for our Beta6 install, and
it now works fine.

-- 
            Thomas Chiverton, systems admin. and WebMaster
   thomas at grenville.co.uk  or phone 01565 757 909 (mobile 07967672404) 
   For in-house IT issues, please mail helpdesk-submit at grenville.co.uk
      GnuPG: E86F DCC6 951A D17F FE6D  6299 21EE 650C 6DB0 B0ED




From hedemark at bops.com  Mon Oct  2 15:22:25 2000
From: hedemark at bops.com (Chris Hedemark)
Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 09:22:25 -0400 
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Config errors
Message-ID: <3D71CCC526F1D311A72600902773EC21209C31@cascabella.rtp.bops.com>

check-perms doesn't do the job 100%.  I've had errors with the permissions
in my dir structure, and check-perms comes up squeaky clean.

-----Original Message-----
From: Chuq Von Rospach [mailto:chuqui at plaidworks.com]
Sent: Sunday, October 01, 2000 11:01 PM
To: Rich Hall; mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Config errors


At 10:26 PM -0400 10/1/00, Rich Hall wrote:

>   File "/home/mailman/Mailman/LockFile.py", line 346, in __write
>     fp = open(self.__tmpfname, 'w')
>IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied:
>'/home/mailman/locks/qrunner.lock.reality-studios.com.1124'

you have a permission problem in your directory structure. did you 
run check_perms?

-- 
Chuq Von Rospach - Plaidworks Consulting (mailto:chuqui at plaidworks.com)
Apple Mail List Gnome (mailto:chuq at apple.com)

You seem a decent fellow. I hate to die.

------------------------------------------------------
Mailman-Users maillist  -  Mailman-Users at python.org
http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users



From sallen at infomanage.net  Mon Oct  2 16:21:18 2000
From: sallen at infomanage.net (Scott D. Allen)
Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 10:21:18 -0400 
Subject: [Mailman-Users] List creation
Message-ID: <5A09E0C7076AD411AF4400D0B774D1C8017F9B@drabek.wp.infomng.com>

Is the only way to create lists in Mailman from the command line? Also, is
there a reference/docs on the command line utilities? Lastly, is there a way
to interact with Mailman by email? The docs/archives are pretty sparse here.
Thanks.

--Scott



From chuqui at plaidworks.com  Mon Oct  2 16:45:03 2000
From: chuqui at plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach)
Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 07:45:03 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Config errors
In-Reply-To: 
 <3D71CCC526F1D311A72600902773EC21209C31@cascabella.rtp.bops.com>
References: 
 <3D71CCC526F1D311A72600902773EC21209C31@cascabella.rtp.bops.com>
Message-ID: <p0433011cb5fe4fda956b@[209.239.169.197]>

At 9:22 AM -0400 10/2/00, Chris Hedemark wrote:
>check-perms doesn't do the job 100%.  I've had errors with the permissions
>in my dir structure, and check-perms comes up squeaky clean.

What version? Any time you find this, please file a bug detailing it 
so it can get fixed.

-- 
Chuq Von Rospach - Plaidworks Consulting (mailto:chuqui at plaidworks.com)
Apple Mail List Gnome (mailto:chuq at apple.com)

You seem a decent fellow. I hate to die.



From hedemark at bops.com  Mon Oct  2 16:57:58 2000
From: hedemark at bops.com (Chris Hedemark)
Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 10:57:58 -0400 
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Config errors
Message-ID: <3D71CCC526F1D311A72600902773EC21209C43@cascabella.rtp.bops.com>

I made mention of it on this mailing list last week.  Version 2.0beta6.


-----Original Message-----
From: Chuq Von Rospach [mailto:chuqui at plaidworks.com]
Sent: Monday, October 02, 2000 10:45 AM
To: Chris Hedemark; 'mailman-users at python.org'
Subject: RE: [Mailman-Users] Config errors


At 9:22 AM -0400 10/2/00, Chris Hedemark wrote:
>check-perms doesn't do the job 100%.  I've had errors with the permissions
>in my dir structure, and check-perms comes up squeaky clean.

What version? Any time you find this, please file a bug detailing it 
so it can get fixed.

-- 
Chuq Von Rospach - Plaidworks Consulting (mailto:chuqui at plaidworks.com)
Apple Mail List Gnome (mailto:chuq at apple.com)

You seem a decent fellow. I hate to die.



From chris at gwydion.net  Mon Oct  2 16:55:15 2000
From: chris at gwydion.net (Silk)
Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 15:55:15 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] List creation
In-Reply-To: <5A09E0C7076AD411AF4400D0B774D1C8017F9E@drabek.wp.infomng.com>; from sallen@infomanage.net on Mon, Oct 02, 2000 at 10:49:53AM -0400
References: <5A09E0C7076AD411AF4400D0B774D1C8017F9E@drabek.wp.infomng.com>
Message-ID: <20001002155514.A11096@gwydion.net>

> So, you found out how to create the lists? Let me know....

By command-line using newlist:

I am, however, having a problem with it: it goes like this.

The txt file attached is a log extract from /var/log/exim/mainlog
showing the logged bits for two posts. One is the 'confirm' response
required to subscribe to a list and the other is an attempt to
post to that list. I've put, as you can tell from these logs, the
correct lines generated by 'newlist' into /etc/aliases, however, this is
what I get.

What have I mis-configured? It looks like an exim misconfiguration,
but mailman hasn't as yet told me to do anything more than what I've
done to make it work...

thanks,

~cHris

-- 
Chris Naden - chris at gwydion dot net

" Sometimes, home is just where you pour your coffee... "
             - Bruno Baldwin
-------------- next part --------------
2000-10-02 15:45:48 13g6qi-0002hj-00 <= chris at foo.org U=chris P=local S=675 id=20001002154548.A8924 at foo.org
2000-10-02 15:45:48 13g6qi-0002hj-00 Neither the system_aliases director nor the address_pipe transport set a uid for local delivery of |/var/lib/mailman/mail/wrapper mailcmd house
2000-10-02 15:46:58 13g6rq-0002lu-00 <= chris at foo.org U=chris P=local S=565 id=20001002154658.B8924 at foo.org
2000-10-02 15:46:58 13g6rq-0002lu-00 Neither the system_aliases director nor the address_pipe transport set a uid for local delivery of |/var/lib/mailman/mail/wrapper post house

From chris at gwydion.net  Mon Oct  2 17:02:51 2000
From: chris at gwydion.net (Silk)
Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 16:02:51 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] List creation
In-Reply-To: <5A09E0C7076AD411AF4400D0B774D1C8017FA1@drabek.wp.infomng.com>; from sallen@infomanage.net on Mon, Oct 02, 2000 at 11:04:58AM -0400
References: <5A09E0C7076AD411AF4400D0B774D1C8017FA1@drabek.wp.infomng.com>
Message-ID: <20001002160251.A13674@gwydion.net>

Not that I've found.

~cHris
-- 
Chris Naden - chris at gwydion dot net

" Sometimes, home is just where you pour your coffee... "
             - Bruno Baldwin



From tneff at bigfoot.com  Mon Oct  2 17:27:55 2000
From: tneff at bigfoot.com (Tom Neff)
Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 11:27:55 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: cleartext passwords
In-Reply-To: <20001002132406.40E931CD94@dinsdale.python.org>
Message-ID: <MFEHJMLCCICAAHLGFNAAKELBCBAA.tneff@bigfoot.com>

I do NOT think that cleartext passwords should be mailed out en masse as
part of a monthly reminder cycle.  That is, over time, going to degrade
security and user confidence in the product.

Passwords should only be sent in response to an explicit user request.  If
it has to be sent in cleartext, well, you asked for it.  If it is possible
to send it encrypted instead (perhaps using a key that the user pastes into
a textarea box on the password request page) then that should be supported.

The monthly reminder (which is a trifle annoying - I now get a flock of them
every first on the month) should, at most, contain a URL for the user
profile page, which includes a button to request an emailed password if the
user has forgotten it.




From alex at phred.org  Mon Oct  2 17:54:29 2000
From: alex at phred.org (alex wetmore)
Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 08:54:29 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: cleartext passwords
References: <MFEHJMLCCICAAHLGFNAAKELBCBAA.tneff@bigfoot.com>
Message-ID: <011b01c02c89$0cae11d0$5bf83b9d@redmond.corp.microsoft.com>

From: "Tom Neff" <tneff at bigfoot.com>
> I do NOT think that cleartext passwords should be mailed out en masse
as
> part of a monthly reminder cycle.  That is, over time, going to
degrade
> security and user confidence in the product.

Mailman passwords should not be considered secure.  They are only a
minor feature to prevent others from unsubscribing you.  The signup
pages clearly say that users should not use valuable passwords.  Most
people aren't running their mailman web over SSL, so the passwords are
sent back to the server in cleartext.

I do wish that Mailman had the option to just have confirmation email
for any list configuration changes.  This would be simpler for most
users (especially since most of my users do the "send my password to me"
to unsub anyway).

alex




From dan at ssc.com  Mon Oct  2 18:11:06 2000
From: dan at ssc.com (Dan Wilder)
Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 09:11:06 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] A funny thing happened...
In-Reply-To: <E13g14h-00013X-00@rioja.localnet>; from Nigel.Metheringham@VData.co.uk on Mon, Oct 02, 2000 at 09:35:51AM +0100
References: <chuqui@plaidworks.com> <E13g14h-00013X-00@rioja.localnet>
Message-ID: <20001002091106.D322@ssc.com>

chuqui at plaidworks.com said:

> 2) this probably should be chalked up as a vote for "making passwords
> optional" for lists. Personally, I think the added security passwords
> add is overwhelmed by the confusion and complexity they cause the
> user, so I'd like to turn them off. There are lists where they could
> be useful, but I could live without them... 

Mailman certainly becomes a more attractive drop-in replacement
for majordomo if it has an option to turn off passwords.  

With tens of thousands of subscribers on majordomo lists, SSC,
publishers of Linux Journal, plans to switch over to Mailman
when a few more beta issues get ironed out, and when support
for passwordless operation exists.  If it doesn't happen by
Spring, we'll probably hack it in ourselves, and offer our
patch.

-----------------------------------------------------------------
 Dan Wilder <dan at ssc.com>
 SSC, Inc. P.O. Box 55549             Phone:  206-782-7733 x123
 Seattle, WA  98155-0549              URL     http://www.ssc.com/
-----------------------------------------------------------------



From tneff at bigfoot.com  Mon Oct  2 18:41:49 2000
From: tneff at bigfoot.com (Tom Neff)
Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 12:41:49 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: cleartext passwords
In-Reply-To: <011b01c02c89$0cae11d0$5bf83b9d@redmond.corp.microsoft.com>
Message-ID: <MFEHJMLCCICAAHLGFNAAMELCCBAA.tneff@bigfoot.com>

alex wetmore <alex at phred.org> wrote:
> From: "Tom Neff" <tneff at bigfoot.com>
> > I do NOT think that cleartext passwords should be mailed out en masse
> > as part of a monthly reminder cycle.  That is, over time, going to
> > degrade security and user confidence in the product.
>
> Mailman passwords should not be considered secure.  They are only a
> minor feature to prevent others from unsubscribing you.  The signup
> pages clearly say that users should not use valuable passwords.  Most
> people aren't running their mailman web over SSL, so the passwords are
> sent back to the server in cleartext.

This is a fallacious line of reasoning (and it's Mailman's fault, not
Alex's, for encouraging it).  Mailman is a conveyance, an application layer;
it should not be in the business of telling its users how secure their
content is, nor of making assumptions about what is considered important
enough to protect.

The fact that no email based security system is completely perfect does not
absolve Mailman of the responsibility to take common sense, easily
implementable steps to *improve* security where this can be done without
making it harder to use.

Mailman's authors and designers do not work this hard specifically to make
the best INSECURE mail manager out there - they just work to make a great
mail manager.  There is nothing about Mailman that inherently *requires*
poor security.  It just happens to be that way as of the current
incarnation.  Improving security will increase product acceptance.




From chuqui at plaidworks.com  Mon Oct  2 18:33:16 2000
From: chuqui at plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach)
Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 09:33:16 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: cleartext passwords
In-Reply-To: <MFEHJMLCCICAAHLGFNAAKELBCBAA.tneff@bigfoot.com>
References: <MFEHJMLCCICAAHLGFNAAKELBCBAA.tneff@bigfoot.com>
Message-ID: <p04330101b5fe67abbd8b@[209.239.169.197]>

At 11:27 AM -0400 10/2/00, Tom Neff wrote:
>I do NOT think that cleartext passwords should be mailed out en masse as
>part of a monthly reminder cycle.  That is, over time, going to degrade
>security and user confidence in the product.
>
>Passwords should only be sent in response to an explicit user request.

I think you're right, Tom. This seems like a good idea.

>The monthly reminder (which is a trifle annoying - I now get a flock of them
>every first on the month) should,
>

Over the years, I've done a lot of experimenting with these admin 
messages. Frankly, I don't think there *is* a good way of dealing 
with this, including not doing it at all.

What I'd like to see Mailman do is a monthly posting, per list, not 
per server. that would allow us to define custom text for each list 
to be included, so it is turned back into a "information about this 
list" message, not just a "here are your subscription" message -- it 
really needs to be both. And if we add the functionality to allow the 
date it's sent out configured per-list, admins can spread it out so 
that we aren't as inundated on the 1st.

I've been running my lists iwthout any regular posting for the last 
couple of years, instead relying on list information in the footer. 
That actually works pretty well, but it has some weaknesses. The 
biggest weakness is that for a low-volume list, users tend to forget 
they're on it, and that leads to problems when a list does waver back 
to life ("who the hell are you and why are you in my mailbox? Oh, 
yeah, I forgot! Well, get me off!"), and worse, as people forget 
they're on a list, they don't think to use it, so lists that fade 
tend to fade faster and are harder to bring back to life. The monthyl 
posting, as least, encourges folks to remember the list, and I think 
encourages its use -- a good thing, IMHO.

So I'm going back to using monthly listings, but I plan on looking 
into tweaking the message to do a few things differently than Mailman 
currently does.

-- 
Chuq Von Rospach - Plaidworks Consulting (mailto:chuqui at plaidworks.com)
Apple Mail List Gnome (mailto:chuq at apple.com)

You seem a decent fellow. I hate to die.



From chuqui at plaidworks.com  Mon Oct  2 18:41:45 2000
From: chuqui at plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach)
Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 09:41:45 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: cleartext passwords
In-Reply-To: 
 <011b01c02c89$0cae11d0$5bf83b9d@redmond.corp.microsoft.com>
References: <MFEHJMLCCICAAHLGFNAAKELBCBAA.tneff@bigfoot.com>
 <011b01c02c89$0cae11d0$5bf83b9d@redmond.corp.microsoft.com>
Message-ID: <p04330103b5fe69502106@[209.239.169.197]>

At 8:54 AM -0700 10/2/00, alex wetmore wrote:

>Mailman passwords should not be considered secure.

You know that, I know that. Does the average user understand what 
you're saying when you say that? Probably not. can you explain it to 
them? Will they listen?

By my experience, a small percentage don't listen, no matter what you 
do. When I migrated to Mailman, I subscribed everyone in msg mode, 
and sent two (count them, two) messages to the lists explaining the 
migration and warning everyone that if they wanted digests, to go 
turn digest mode back on.

I'm *still* getting messages from people unsubscribing because "I 
liked it better when I just got one message a day" -- sigh.

By the way, one thing I've done, and I recommend it strongly, is I've 
added a note to the unsubscribe notes that says something like "we're 
sorry you're leaving. If you'd like to tell us why, we'd like to 
hear..." and a contact mailto. A fair number do, and while 50% are 
simply letting us know they're changing addresses (Mailman really 
needs an address change function), it's a useful way to get feedback, 
and it's helped me pull back six or seven members who were clueless 
over the digest stuff.

Mailman's subscribe page does a good job of warning folks about the 
passwords. But you can't assume they'll pay attention.

>  They are only a
>minor feature to prevent others from unsubscribing you.

In all my years of running lists, I can only think of one case where 
this happened. And it happened to me, when a dweeb had a fight with 
me as ListAdmin and decided to display some testosterone. He 
regretted that fight.

if the reason you're doing this is to protect from unsubscribe slams, 
I wouldn't bother. Unsubscribe fights are so rare that the complexity 
isn't worth it. We have to protect against subscribe slams and the 
various list-based attacks, but unsubscribe fights generally come 
from fights ON a list, and can be handled by any listadmin who isn't 
comatose. you KNOW who the idiot is if it happens...

>I do wish that Mailman had the option to just have confirmation email
>for any list configuration changes.  This would be simpler for most
>users (especially since most of my users do the "send my password to me"
>to unsub anyway).

agreed.

-- 
Chuq Von Rospach - Plaidworks Consulting (mailto:chuqui at plaidworks.com)
Apple Mail List Gnome (mailto:chuq at apple.com)

You seem a decent fellow. I hate to die.



From satyap at satya.virtualave.net  Mon Oct  2 14:43:16 2000
From: satyap at satya.virtualave.net (Satya)
Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 18:13:16 +0530 (IST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] A funny thing happened...
In-Reply-To: <p04330116b5fdc9d618f9@[209.239.169.197]>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0010021808140.913-100000@hal9k.myip.org>

On Oct 1, 2000 at 22:18, Chuq Von Rospach wrote:

>subscription notice. And I had a user complain about the site sending 
>out the list password in cleartext (my first thought was "how ELSE am 
>I supposed to send you the password, given that the system has no 
>encryption in it?" but I bit my tongue.)

I haven't had anyone leave in a huff over this, but more than one person
has complained about cleartext passwords. Especially as I was sending them
once a week -- although I've now changed back to once a month. 

I also found that the password reminder was sending the wrong address for
mailman owner -- %(owner)s in cronpass.txt. That's cos my machine doesn't
really have a domain name. It's offline most of the time, so the web
interface isn't accessible to anyone but me, either. So I hacked
mailpasswds to set the right -owner address for each list, and not send
the options URL. Anyone want?

-- 
Satya. <URL:http://satya.virtualave.net/>
US-bound grad students! For pre-apps, see <URL:http://quickapps.cjb.net/>
Murphy was an optimist.





From tneff at bigfoot.com  Mon Oct  2 19:11:49 2000
From: tneff at bigfoot.com (Tom Neff)
Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 13:11:49 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: monthly mailings
In-Reply-To: <p04330101b5fe67abbd8b@[209.239.169.197]>
Message-ID: <MFEHJMLCCICAAHLGFNAAGELDCBAA.tneff@bigfoot.com>

Chuq wrote:
> What I'd like to see Mailman do is a monthly posting, per list, not
> per server. that would allow us to define custom text for each list
> to be included, so it is turned back into a "information about this
> list" message, not just a "here are your subscription" message -- it
> really needs to be both. And if we add the functionality to allow the
> date it's sent out configured per-list, admins can spread it out so
> that we aren't as inundated on the 1st.

Another tack (don't know which one makes more sense) would be for each
server to send a monthly reminder to each member of ANY of its hosted lists,
reminding them of ALL lists that they're a member of.  That way if you have
a site hosting a bunch of lists (some seasonal, some temporary, others
topical etc) you would just get one message per month from that site.  Might
help at least some people.




From chuqui at plaidworks.com  Mon Oct  2 19:46:01 2000
From: chuqui at plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach)
Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 10:46:01 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: monthly mailings
In-Reply-To: <MFEHJMLCCICAAHLGFNAAGELDCBAA.tneff@bigfoot.com>
References: <MFEHJMLCCICAAHLGFNAAGELDCBAA.tneff@bigfoot.com>
Message-ID: <p04330104b5fe7805971d@[17.216.27.250]>

At 1:11 PM -0400 10/2/00, Tom Neff wrote:

>Another tack (don't know which one makes more sense) would be for each
>server to send a monthly reminder to each member of ANY of its hosted lists,
>reminding them of ALL lists that they're a member of.

Fewer messages, but if you attach a hunk-O-text for each list, you 
quickly end up with a huge piece of email, which you can guarantee 
nobody will read.

>That way if you have
>a site hosting a bunch of lists (some seasonal, some temporary, others
>topical etc) you would just get one message per month from that site.  Might
>help at least some people.

There really isn't a good way of doing this. you have the choice of:

1) not sending anything, which causes everyone to post "how do I get 
off this list?" type messages to the list, since they long since 
forgot the instructions.

2) send one message per server (as mailman does today), minus the 
passwords, plus a piece of text per list. That's pretty much 
guaranteed to generate something most users will blow off and not 
bothe reading, but it's less server stress and fewer messages, but it 
ties all of the lists together, which (IMHO) on many sites isn't what 
you want anyway. And -- what about virtual hosts? Are they split? One 
message per vhost? One per each virtual host? What if we extend 
mailman to allow a list to live on multiple hosts? what if you have 
one or two lists that you do NOT want to have these messages sent to? 
Right now, it's all or nothing, and not all sites fit that (mine 
doesn't. I'm going to be creating a list that will likely get 2-3 
postings a QUARTER, and are announcement lists, not discussion lists 
-- but mailman requires they get monthly postings, or none of my 
lists get monthly postings... So these users will likely see more 
admin messages than real messages -- or if I'm really lucky, about 
the same. Not good!)

I really don't like the one-per-server. There are way too many 
environments where it causes problems.

3) send one message per list. Which wll annoy people who are 
sensitive to # of messages sent, but that's a fairly small population 
(smaller than the "reply-to" demanders but larger than the "ID flag 
on the subject line" folks), but allows us to stagger the messages 
over a period of time, and focus each one to the needs of the list.

I dislike (3) least. In general, I'd love to live without these 
messages at all, and the List-foo: headers anda  well-written footer 
text definitely help in that direction, but don't completely solve 
the issue. But if we go with (3), at least we can determine how often 
to send out admin messages or turn it off, based on the list needs, 
not server-wide. Because not all lists are alike...


-- 
Chuq Von Rospach - Plaidworks Consulting (mailto:chuqui at plaidworks.com)
Apple Mail List Gnome (mailto:chuq at apple.com)

You seem a decent fellow. I hate to die.



From claw at kanga.nu  Mon Oct  2 20:11:32 2000
From: claw at kanga.nu (J C Lawrence)
Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2000 11:11:32 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: cleartext passwords 
In-Reply-To: Message from "Tom Neff" <tneff@bigfoot.com> 
   of "Mon, 02 Oct 2000 11:27:55 EDT." <MFEHJMLCCICAAHLGFNAAKELBCBAA.tneff@bigfoot.com> 
References: <MFEHJMLCCICAAHLGFNAAKELBCBAA.tneff@bigfoot.com> 
Message-ID: <32721.970510292@kanga.nu>

On Mon, 2 Oct 2000 11:27:55 -0400 
Tom Neff <tneff at bigfoot.com> wrote:

> I do NOT think that cleartext passwords should be mailed out en
> masse as part of a monthly reminder cycle.  That is, over time,
> going to degrade security and user confidence in the product.

There are several conflicting problems here:

  1) Security for sensitive lists and list settings
  2) Ease of use for neophyte and cavalier users
  3) Barrier to entry for users

Currently Mailman defaults to making things easy for casual and
neophyte users, making Mailman lists easy to approach and use, and
places a small lock on the gate to deter casual attacks.  Bigger
locks, and more rigorous systems would demand compromises in ease of
use, and barriers to entry for list use.  Less rigorous systems than
mailman of course abound.

A more telling question:

  Are you running Mailman under SSL?  

  Why not?  "Anybody" could snoop your user's passwords off the wire
  as they authenticate.

  Are you doing SSL client key authentication?  

  Why not?  "Anybody" could claim to be that user and not be.

The first question is actually serious.  Are you running the Mailman
CGIs under SSL?  Do you have an SSL key signed by a known/trusted CA
(ie not SnakeOil)?

  ObNote: Carefyl web watchers will note that I'm using a SnakeOil
SLL cert at Kanga.Nu.  Yes, its open to man-in-the-middle attacks.
However, it also is a minor but effective dissuasion to casual
attacks -- which is about all Mailman promises in the first place.

Security is not a game of absolutes.  Its a game of intelligent
assessment of risks and of the costs of assuaging those risks.
Mailman makes the choice that "something is better than nothing, but
anything more is just not worth it".  Its a fair position.  Its
better than the typical wide-open list servers, but not as good as
say RSA key authentication.

Its also more annoying to use than wide-open list servers, and far
easier to use and remember than RSA key authentication (What?  I
have to track *ANOTHER* key pair?)

How difficult do you want your services to be to use?

> Passwords should only be sent in response to an explicit user
> request.  

Mailman is of course configurable to do this.

> The monthly reminder (which is a trifle annoying - I now get a
> flock of them every first on the month) should, at most, contain a
> URL for the user profile page, which includes a button to request
> an emailed password if the user has forgotten it.

As a list owner I like them for the simplest of reasons:

  Every month, just after the reminders go out, I get a rash of
  unsubscribes.  

I like this.  It keeps my subscriber bases clean and gives me a
(more) accurate tally of my membership base.

As a list member, well, procmail is my friend.

-- 
J C Lawrence                                 Home: claw at kanga.nu
---------(*)                               Other: coder at kanga.nu
http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/        Keys etc: finger claw at kanga.nu
--=| A man is as sane as he is dangerous to his environment |=--



From claw at kanga.nu  Mon Oct  2 20:18:31 2000
From: claw at kanga.nu (J C Lawrence)
Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2000 11:18:31 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: cleartext passwords 
In-Reply-To: Message from "alex wetmore" <alex@phred.org> 
   of "Mon, 02 Oct 2000 08:54:29 PDT." <011b01c02c89$0cae11d0$5bf83b9d@redmond.corp.microsoft.com> 
References: <MFEHJMLCCICAAHLGFNAAKELBCBAA.tneff@bigfoot.com>  <011b01c02c89$0cae11d0$5bf83b9d@redmond.corp.microsoft.com> 
Message-ID: <699.970510711@kanga.nu>

On Mon, 2 Oct 2000 08:54:29 -0700 
alex wetmore <alex at phred.org> wrote:

> I do wish that Mailman had the option to just have confirmation
> email for any list configuration changes.  This would be simpler
> for most users (especially since most of my users do the "send my
> password to me" to unsub anyway).

Agreed.  

Another feature which I've seen on a couple list servers now is that
they reply with a custom URL to configuration commend.  Simply
loading that custom URL verifies and commits the requested change.
Very nice, especially for neophyte and casual users as there is
*zero* surprise or incomprehension response to the instruction, "Go
to this web page to finish your XXXX."

An example BTW are the security lists hosted at SecurityPortal.  A
sample confirmation message looks something lie the following (URL
keys slightly munged):

--<cut>--
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 18:22:47 -0400 (15:22 PDT)
From: "L-Soft list server at LISTSERV.SECURITYPORTAL.COM (1.8d)"
    <LISTSERV at LISTSERV.SECURITYPORTAL.COM>
Subject: Command confirmation request (3af9edff)
To: claw at KANGA.NU

Your command:

                  SUBSCRIBE LINUX-SECURITY J C Lawrence

requires confirmation. To  confirm the execution of  your command, simply
point your browser to the following URL:

http://listserv.securityportal.com/SCRIPTS/WA-SECURITYPORTAL.EXE?OK=Ceg296645L=LINUX-SECURITY

Alternatively, if  you have no WWW  access, you can reply  to the present
message and type  "ok" (without the quotes) as the  text of your message.
Just the word "ok" - do not  retype the command. This procedure will work
with any mail  program that fully conforms to the  Internet standards for
electronic  mail. If  you receive  an error  message, try  sending a  new
message  to   LISTSERV at LISTSERV.SECURITYPORTAL.COM  (without   using  the
"reply" function - this is very  important) and type "ok CC2296F2" as the
text of your message.

Finally, your  command will be  cancelled automatically if  LISTSERV does
not receive your confirmation within 48h. After that time, you must start
over and resend the command to get a new confirmation code. If you change
your mind and decide that you do  NOT want to confirm the command, simply
discard the present message and let the request expire on its own.
--<cut>--

Good stuff.

-- 
J C Lawrence                                 Home: claw at kanga.nu
---------(*)                               Other: coder at kanga.nu
http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/        Keys etc: finger claw at kanga.nu
--=| A man is as sane as he is dangerous to his environment |=--



From rpinkett at media.mit.edu  Mon Oct  2 20:21:49 2000
From: rpinkett at media.mit.edu (Randal D. Pinkett)
Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2000 14:21:49 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Need Help with a Bug in Mailman Version 1.1
Message-ID: <2.2.32.20001002182149.040c9c04@ml.media.mit.edu>

Can anyone recommend someone I can e-mail to help troubleshoot an
installation problem with Mailman 1.1 on Linux 6.2 with Python 1.5.2?

I sent a message yesterday, but it seems possible that noone has seen the
problem before.

Randal




From chuqui at plaidworks.com  Mon Oct  2 20:20:42 2000
From: chuqui at plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach)
Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 11:20:42 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: cleartext passwords
In-Reply-To: <32721.970510292@kanga.nu>
References: <MFEHJMLCCICAAHLGFNAAKELBCBAA.tneff@bigfoot.com>
 <32721.970510292@kanga.nu>
Message-ID: <p04330106b5fe8212f56c@[17.216.27.250]>

At 11:11 AM -0700 10/2/00, J C Lawrence wrote:

>Currently Mailman defaults to making things easy for casual and
>neophyte users, making Mailman lists easy to approach and use,

Except I don't think passwords does that. I think passwords work in 
conflict with this.

-- 
Chuq Von Rospach - Plaidworks Consulting (mailto:chuqui at plaidworks.com)
Apple Mail List Gnome (mailto:chuq at apple.com)

You seem a decent fellow. I hate to die.



From wrd at awenet.com  Mon Oct  2 20:42:31 2000
From: wrd at awenet.com (William R. Dickson)
Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 11:42:31 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Virtual Domains
Message-ID: <Pine.NEB.4.21.0010021051110.5751-100000@awenet.com>

Hi all,

There's been lots of talk about setting up virtual domains in
Mailman.  Here's how I did it.  Let's assume two domains, foo.com and
bar.com.

First, I do a separate mailman installation for each.  Mailman's not very
big, so the disk overhead's not a problem.  I create a /usr/local/mailman
directory.  I create two subdirectories in there, named for each domain,
so I have /usr/local/mailman/foo.com and /usr/local/mailman/bar.com.  I
then do (logged in as the mailman user):

configure --prefix=/usr/local/mailman/foo.com --with-mail-gid=31
make
make install
crontab -e
(then, in vi):
:r /usr/local/src/mailman/cron/crontab.in
:wq
make clean
configure --prefix=/usr/local/mailman/bar.com --with-mail-gid=31
make
make install
crontab -e
(then, in vi):
shift-g
:r /usr/local/src/mailman/cron/crontab.in
:wq
make clean

Let's figure on a list named "test" in each domain: test at foo.com and
test at bar.com.

In the virtusertable, I set up virtual addresses like so:

test at foo.com                 test-foo.com
test-request at foo.com         test-request-foo.com
test-admin at foo.com           test-admin-foo.com
owner-test at foo.com           owner-test-foo.com
test-owner at foo.com           owner-test-foo.com

test at bar.com                 test-bar.com
test-request at bar.com         test-request-bar.com
test-admin at bar.com           test-admin-bar.com
owner-test at bar.com           test-admin-bar.com
test-owner at bar.com           test-admin-bar.com

Now, I set up the aliases.  I keep each domain's mailman aliases in its
own file, cumbersomely named aliases-mailman-foo.com and
aliases-mailman-bar.com.  Sendmail obviously needs to be set up to read
these alias files.  (Please excuse the pine wrapping here; naturally,
there would be no carriage returns in the alias entries.)

in aliases-mailman-foo.com:

test-foo.com: "|/usr/local/mailman/foo.com/mail/wrapper post test"
test-request-foo.com: "|/usr/local/mailman/foo.com/mail/wrapper mailcmd test"
test-admin-foo.com: "|/usr/local/mailman/foo.com/mail/wrapper mailowner test"

in aliases-mailman-bar.com:

test-bar.com: "|/usr/local/mailman/bar.com/mail/wrapper post test"
test-request-bar.com: "|/usr/local/mailman/bar.com/mail/wrapper mailcmd test"
test-admin-bar.com: "|/usr/local/mailman/bar.com/mail/wrapper mailowner test"

Finally, you need virtual domains set up in apache:

<VirtualHost 10.0.1.1>
        ServerAdmin listmaster at foo.com
        DocumentRoot /usr/local/mailman/www
        ServerName lists.foo.com
        ScriptAlias /mailman/ "/usr/local/mailman/foo.com/cgi-bin/"
        Alias /pipermail/ "/usr/local/mailman/foo.com/archives/public/"
        Alias /icons/ "/usr/local/mailman/img/"
        ErrorDocument 404 http://lists.foo.com/mailman/listinfo
        ErrorDocument 403 http://lists.foo.com/mailman/listinfo
        <Directory "/usr/local/mailman/foo.com/archives/public/">
                Options FollowSymLinks
                AllowOverride None
        </Directory>
</VirtualHost>

<VirtualHost 10.0.1.1>
        ServerAdmin listmaster at bar.com
        DocumentRoot /usr/local/mailman/www
        ServerName lists.bar.com
        ScriptAlias /mailman/ "/usr/local/mailman/bar.com/cgi-bin/"
        Alias /pipermail/ "/usr/local/mailman/bar.com/archives/public/"
        Alias /icons/ "/usr/local/mailman/img/"
        ErrorDocument 404 http://lists.bar.com/mailman/listinfo
        ErrorDocument 403 http://lists.bar.com/mailman/listinfo
        <Directory "/usr/local/mailman/bar.com/archives/public/">
                Options FollowSymLinks
                AllowOverride None
        </Directory>
</VirtualHost>


I think that about covers how I do it.  I'm sure somebody can point out
things that could be done more efficiently, but this works pretty darn
well.  I'd be happy to answer questions, but be patient for answers :).

-Bill


--
 William R. Dickson -- Consuming the Earth's limited resources since 1968
 wrd at awenet.com   http://www.awenet.com/~wrd/  (PGP public key available)

   Burns:  That's right...keep eating...Little do you know you're drawing
           ever closer to the poison donut!  There is a poison one, isn't
           there, Smithers?

Smithers:  Ah, no sir, I discussed this with our lawyers.  They consider
           it murder.

   Burns:  Damn their oily hides!




From claw at kanga.nu  Mon Oct  2 20:48:13 2000
From: claw at kanga.nu (J C Lawrence)
Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2000 11:48:13 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: cleartext passwords 
In-Reply-To: Message from Chuq Von Rospach <chuqui@plaidworks.com> 
   of "Mon, 02 Oct 2000 11:20:42 PDT." <p04330106b5fe8212f56c@[17.216.27.250]> 
References: <MFEHJMLCCICAAHLGFNAAKELBCBAA.tneff@bigfoot.com> <32721.970510292@kanga.nu>  <p04330106b5fe8212f56c@[17.216.27.250]> 
Message-ID: <2729.970512493@kanga.nu>

On Mon, 2 Oct 2000 11:20:42 -0700 
Chuq Von Rospach <chuqui at plaidworks.com> wrote:

> At 11:11 AM -0700 10/2/00, J C Lawrence wrote:
>> Currently Mailman defaults to making things easy for casual and
>> neophyte users, making Mailman lists easy to approach and use,

> Except I don't think passwords does that. I think passwords work
> in conflict with this.

<slap>

Chauq, you are accused of unrepresentative quoting to make your
point.  <poke in ribs> The compleat sentence for the above was:

  Currently Mailman defaults to making things easy for casual and
  neophyte users, making Mailman lists easy to approach and use, and
  places a small lock on the gate to deter casual attacks.

Admittedly I could have harped a bit more on the line of, "You get
to trade security for eas of use.  You can't get both.  You chose
your sweet spot and then live with it."

That said, I'm not fond of Mailman's current setup.  What I'd
prefer:

  -- List commands generate an email response which contains a
     confirm token (reply to this to make it happen) AND a custom
     URL (got to this page to make it happen).  The user gets to
     choose which he wants.

  -- Web-originated commands (subscribe, unsubscribe, settings etc)
     are exactly the same.  They reply with a confirm message just
     like the above UNLESS they are additionally authenticated with
     a previously established password.

  -- It would be nice if the account/password relastionship were
     abstracted, so tha things like LDAP could be plugged in.  Not a 
     requirement tho.

This of course makes all changes a two step affair (change then
confirm).  To achieve the one step business you can then use the
normal password business as Mailman does it now.

What's this mean?  For 90% of operations no passwords are required,
nothing needs to be remembered or tracked by users, and everybody
sleeps comfortably.  For the odd guy who is on the road away from
his normal accounts or who is facile enough to know exactly what he
wants and how to do it, well, he can remember and use his password.

-- 
J C Lawrence                                 Home: claw at kanga.nu
---------(*)                               Other: coder at kanga.nu
http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/        Keys etc: finger claw at kanga.nu
--=| A man is as sane as he is dangerous to his environment |=--



From rpinkett at media.mit.edu  Mon Oct  2 20:53:05 2000
From: rpinkett at media.mit.edu (Randal D. Pinkett)
Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2000 14:53:05 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Error Report (re-send)
Message-ID: <2.2.32.20001002185305.040bf5d0@ml.media.mit.edu>

Hey folks... here is my error again.

I just installed Mailman 1.1 with Python 1.5.2 on a Redhat Linux 6.2
machine, and receive the following error when I visited http://myserver/listinfo

--- beginning of output ---

Bug in Mailman version 1.1

Traceback:


Traceback (innermost last):
  File "/home/mailman/scripts/driver", line 112, in run_main
    main()
  File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/listinfo.py", line 40, in main
    FormatListinfoOverview()
  File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/listinfo.py", line 124, in
FormatListinfoOverview
    welcome_items = (welcome_items +
  File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Utils.py", line 424, in GetNestingLevel
    if path[0] <> '/':
IndexError: string index out of range

Environment variables:

 Variable
                              Value
 HTTP_ACCEPT_ENCODING
                              gzip
 REMOTE_HOST
                              18.85.12.131
 SERVER_PORT
                              80
 HTTP_ACCEPT
                              image/gif, image/x-xbitmap, image/jpeg,
image/pjpeg, image/png, */*
 GATEWAY_INTERFACE
                              CGI/1.1
 CONTENT_TYPE
 HTTP_ACCEPT_LANGUAGE
                              en
 REMOTE_ADDR
                              18.85.12.131
 SERVER_NAME
                              18.85.1.82
 HTTP_CONNECTION
                              Keep-Alive
 HTTP_USER_AGENT
                              Mozilla/4.61 (Macintosh; I; PPC)
 HTTP_ACCEPT_CHARSET
                              iso-8859-1,*,utf-8
 CONTENT_LENGTH
 PATH

/ora8/m01/app/oracle/product/8.1.6/bin:/ora8/m01/app/oracle/product/8.1.6/ctx/li
b:/usr/local/sbin:/sbin:/bin:/usr/sbin:/usr/bin
 QUERY_STRING
 SERVER_PROTOCOL
                              HTTP/1.0
 PATH_INFO
 HTTP_HOST
                              www.camfieldestates.net
 REQUEST_METHOD
                              GET
 SCRIPT_NAME
                              /mailman/listinfo
 SERVER_SOFTWARE
                              AOLserver/3.0
 REMOTE_USER
 PYTHONPATH
                              /home/mailman
 HTTP_COOKIE
                              ad_browser_id=18; last_visit=970468954;
second_to_last_visit=970468933;

ad_session_id=95%2c3%2cpV2kN%2exGGdQC3UTJMojhkgIvw%2fXd6W%2ey%2c970468932;

ad_user_login=3%2cuMfW5qXZ5X2ox17g2a%2fIe61WN47K0lB6
 AUTH_TYPE
                              Basic

--- end of output

Any assistance would be greatly appreciated.

Randal Pinkett






From dan at ssc.com  Mon Oct  2 21:10:25 2000
From: dan at ssc.com (Dan Wilder)
Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 12:10:25 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: cleartext passwords
In-Reply-To: <2729.970512493@kanga.nu>; from claw@kanga.nu on Mon, Oct 02, 2000 at 11:48:13AM -0700
References: <MFEHJMLCCICAAHLGFNAAKELBCBAA.tneff@bigfoot.com> <32721.970510292@kanga.nu> <p04330106b5fe8212f56c@[17.216.27.250]> <chuqui@plaidworks.com> <2729.970512493@kanga.nu>
Message-ID: <20001002121025.B528@ssc.com>

On Mon, Oct 02, 2000 at 11:48:13AM -0700, J C Lawrence wrote:
> That said, I'm not fond of Mailman's current setup.  What I'd
> prefer:
> 
>   -- List commands generate an email response which contains a
>      confirm token (reply to this to make it happen) AND a custom
>      URL (got to this page to make it happen).  The user gets to
>      choose which he wants.
> 
>   -- Web-originated commands (subscribe, unsubscribe, settings etc)
>      are exactly the same.  They reply with a confirm message just
>      like the above UNLESS they are additionally authenticated with
>      a previously established password.
> 
>   -- It would be nice if the account/password relastionship were
>      abstracted, so tha things like LDAP could be plugged in.  Not a 
>      requirement tho.
> 
> This of course makes all changes a two step affair (change then
> confirm).  To achieve the one step business you can then use the
> normal password business as Mailman does it now.

That sounds MUCH better to me than the present arrangement.

The two-step process also eliminates the standard bugaboo of anything
that accepts email addresses from web forms: people who can't type,
or don't know their own email address.  I can't think how much time
I've spent unsubscribing users who don't exist from Majordomo lists.

If they don't get on the list until they respond to the confirming
email, and the confirming email goes into the bitbucket, then the
list admin doesn't have to do anything about getting 'em off the list.

> What's this mean?  For 90% of operations no passwords are required,
> nothing needs to be remembered or tracked by users, and everybody
> sleeps comfortably.  For the odd guy who is on the road away from
> his normal accounts or who is facile enough to know exactly what he
> wants and how to do it, well, he can remember and use his password.

Now if there were a way (well maybe there is by now, please pardon
the noise if so) to turn off password reminders.  I hate to take
up internet bandwidth, and annoy our users, with several tens of 
thousands of emails per month that nobody's going to make any use
of whatsoever.

-----------------------------------------------------------------
 Dan Wilder <dan at ssc.com>
 SSC, Inc. P.O. Box 55549             Phone:  206-782-7733 x123
 Seattle, WA  98155-0549              URL     http://www.ssc.com/
-----------------------------------------------------------------



From chuqui at plaidworks.com  Mon Oct  2 21:17:55 2000
From: chuqui at plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach)
Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 12:17:55 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: cleartext passwords
In-Reply-To: <2729.970512493@kanga.nu>
References: <MFEHJMLCCICAAHLGFNAAKELBCBAA.tneff@bigfoot.com>
 <32721.970510292@kanga.nu>  <p04330106b5fe8212f56c@[17.216.27.250]>
 <2729.970512493@kanga.nu>
Message-ID: <p04330109b5fe8f340844@[17.216.27.250]>

At 11:48 AM -0700 10/2/00, J C Lawrence wrote:

>   -- List commands generate an email response which contains a
>      confirm token (reply to this to make it happen) AND a custom
>      URL (got to this page to make it happen).  The user gets to
>      choose which he wants.

I like this.


>   -- Web-originated commands (subscribe, unsubscribe, settings etc)
>      are exactly the same.  They reply with a confirm message just
>      like the above UNLESS they are additionally authenticated with
>      a previously established password.

I don't think you need the password here. Mailback validation is 
fine, because it proves ownership (or at least access to) the email 
address. If you're being attacked, and they can read your e-mail, 
being subscribed to a mail list is the LEAST of your problems. No 
sense making the mail list service more secure than your e-mail 
account.

>   -- It would be nice if the account/password relastionship were
>      abstracted, so tha things like LDAP could be plugged in.  Not a
>      requirement tho.

yup. That's on my list somewhere, too.

>This of course makes all changes a two step affair (change then
>confirm).  To achieve the one step business you can then use the
>normal password business as Mailman does it now.

for subcribes and the like, that's generally what you want (but have 
the option of turning it off). The only place I wouldn't want it is 
unsubs. Make that as trivially easy as you possibly can, because 
there's no need to make it secure. Unsub attacks are basically 
non-existant, especially compared to the struggles of the 
naive-i-want-off-i-dont-care user.

-- 
Chuq Von Rospach - Plaidworks Consulting (mailto:chuqui at plaidworks.com)
Apple Mail List Gnome (mailto:chuq at apple.com)

You seem a decent fellow. I hate to die.



From claw at kanga.nu  Mon Oct  2 21:20:43 2000
From: claw at kanga.nu (J C Lawrence)
Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2000 12:20:43 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: cleartext passwords 
In-Reply-To: Message from Dan Wilder <dan@ssc.com> 
   of "Mon, 02 Oct 2000 12:10:25 PDT." <20001002121025.B528@ssc.com> 
References: <MFEHJMLCCICAAHLGFNAAKELBCBAA.tneff@bigfoot.com> <32721.970510292@kanga.nu> <p04330106b5fe8212f56c@[17.216.27.250]> <chuqui@plaidworks.com> <2729.970512493@kanga.nu>  <20001002121025.B528@ssc.com> 
Message-ID: <5051.970514443@kanga.nu>

On Mon, 2 Oct 2000 12:10:25 -0700 
Dan Wilder <dan at ssc.com> wrote:

> Now if there were a way (well maybe there is by now, please pardon
> the noise if so) to turn off password reminders.  I hate to take
> up internet bandwidth, and annoy our users, with several tens of
> thousands of emails per month that nobody's going to make any use
> of whatsoever.

Its on the General Options page:

-- 
J C Lawrence                                 Home: claw at kanga.nu
---------(*)                               Other: coder at kanga.nu
http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/        Keys etc: finger claw at kanga.nu
--=| A man is as sane as he is dangerous to his environment |=--



From chuqui at plaidworks.com  Mon Oct  2 21:20:18 2000
From: chuqui at plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach)
Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 12:20:18 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: cleartext passwords
In-Reply-To: <20001002121025.B528@ssc.com>
References: <MFEHJMLCCICAAHLGFNAAKELBCBAA.tneff@bigfoot.com>
 <32721.970510292@kanga.nu> <p04330106b5fe8212f56c@[17.216.27.250]>
 <chuqui@plaidworks.com> <2729.970512493@kanga.nu>
 <20001002121025.B528@ssc.com>
Message-ID: <p0433010ab5fe90544c22@[17.216.27.250]>

>Now if there were a way (well maybe there is by now, please pardon
>the noise if so) to turn off password reminders.  I hate to take
>up internet bandwidth, and annoy our users, with several tens of
>thousands of emails per month that nobody's going to make any use
>of whatsoever.

take the job that does this out of your crontab.

-- 
Chuq Von Rospach - Plaidworks Consulting (mailto:chuqui at plaidworks.com)
Apple Mail List Gnome (mailto:chuq at apple.com)

You seem a decent fellow. I hate to die.



From wilsong at sergievsky.cpmc.columbia.edu  Mon Oct  2 21:25:22 2000
From: wilsong at sergievsky.cpmc.columbia.edu (Gary Wilson)
Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 15:25:22 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: cleartext passwords
References: <MFEHJMLCCICAAHLGFNAAKELBCBAA.tneff@bigfoot.com> <32721.970510292@kanga.nu> <p04330106b5fe8212f56c@[17.216.27.250]> <chuqui@plaidworks.com> <2729.970512493@kanga.nu> <20001002121025.B528@ssc.com>
Message-ID: <02a701c02ca6$82060600$7d266f9c@cpmc.columbia.edu>

----- Original Message -----
From: "Dan Wilder" <dan at ssc.com>
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Re: cleartext passwords


> Now if there were a way (well maybe there is by now, please pardon
> the noise if so) to turn off password reminders.  I hate to take
> up internet bandwidth, and annoy our users, with several tens of
> thousands of emails per month that nobody's going to make any use
> of whatsoever.


I wish there were a way to turn off passwords altogether. But there's not.
And its not an option in beta6. Since there has been no comment on this
subject by the primary developers, I think that you should assume that it
won't be an option in version 2.0.

I think that you'll have to start looking for another listserver program. I
know that I will have to if the passwords can't be turned off. I have a
server with something like 10 lists, and the person responsible for
administering every one of those lists is complaining about the extra
administrative hassles that are imposed on them because users can't change
things without a password.

I wish one of the Mailman developers would make it clear whether or not
passwords will be made optional, and if so when it will be implemented.

Gary




From wilsong at sergievsky.cpmc.columbia.edu  Mon Oct  2 21:35:09 2000
From: wilsong at sergievsky.cpmc.columbia.edu (Gary Wilson)
Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 15:35:09 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: cleartext passwords
References: <MFEHJMLCCICAAHLGFNAAKELBCBAA.tneff@bigfoot.com> <32721.970510292@kanga.nu> <p04330106b5fe8212f56c@[17.216.27.250]>
Message-ID: <02e601c02ca7$dfbb79a0$7d266f9c@cpmc.columbia.edu>

I agree. I really need to be able to eliminate passwords altogether.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Chuq Von Rospach" <chuqui at plaidworks.com>
To: "J C Lawrence" <claw at kanga.nu>; "Tom Neff" <tneff at bigfoot.com>
Cc: <mailman-users at python.org>
Sent: Monday, October 02, 2000 2:20 PM
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Re: cleartext passwords


> At 11:11 AM -0700 10/2/00, J C Lawrence wrote:
> 
> >Currently Mailman defaults to making things easy for casual and
> >neophyte users, making Mailman lists easy to approach and use,
> 
> Except I don't think passwords does that. I think passwords work in 
> conflict with this.
> 
> -- 
> Chuq Von Rospach - Plaidworks Consulting (mailto:chuqui at plaidworks.com)
> Apple Mail List Gnome (mailto:chuq at apple.com)
> 
> You seem a decent fellow. I hate to die.
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users maillist  -  Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> 




From claw at kanga.nu  Mon Oct  2 21:32:18 2000
From: claw at kanga.nu (J C Lawrence)
Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2000 12:32:18 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: cleartext passwords 
In-Reply-To: Message from Chuq Von Rospach <chuqui@plaidworks.com> 
   of "Mon, 02 Oct 2000 12:17:55 PDT." <p04330109b5fe8f340844@[17.216.27.250]> 
References: <MFEHJMLCCICAAHLGFNAAKELBCBAA.tneff@bigfoot.com> <32721.970510292@kanga.nu> <p04330106b5fe8212f56c@[17.216.27.250]> <2729.970512493@kanga.nu>  <p04330109b5fe8f340844@[17.216.27.250]> 
Message-ID: <5908.970515138@kanga.nu>

On Mon, 2 Oct 2000 12:17:55 -0700 
Chuq Von Rospach <chuqui at plaidworks.com> wrote:

> At 11:48 AM -0700 10/2/00, J C Lawrence wrote:

>> -- Web-originated commands (subscribe, unsubscribe, settings etc)
>> are exactly the same.  They reply with a confirm message just
>> like the above UNLESS they are additionally authenticated with a
>> previously established password.

> I don't think you need the password here. Mailback validation is
> fine, because it proves ownership (or at least access to) the
> email address. If you're being attacked, and they can read your
> e-mail, being subscribed to a mail list is the LEAST of your
> problems. No sense making the mail list service more secure than
> your e-mail account.

Its purely there so that someone away from their normal accounts can 
continue to operate.  Look at it this way:

Given the confirm business:

  Authentication is two level: you know the subscription address and
  you get mail sent to it.

Given a password:

  Authentication is two level: you know the subscription address and 
  the password associated with it.

-- 
J C Lawrence                                 Home: claw at kanga.nu
---------(*)                               Other: coder at kanga.nu
http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/        Keys etc: finger claw at kanga.nu
--=| A man is as sane as he is dangerous to his environment |=--



From chuqui at plaidworks.com  Mon Oct  2 21:47:37 2000
From: chuqui at plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach)
Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 12:47:37 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: cleartext passwords
In-Reply-To: <5908.970515138@kanga.nu>
References: <MFEHJMLCCICAAHLGFNAAKELBCBAA.tneff@bigfoot.com>
 <32721.970510292@kanga.nu> <p04330106b5fe8212f56c@[17.216.27.250]>
 <2729.970512493@kanga.nu>  <p04330109b5fe8f340844@[17.216.27.250]>
 <5908.970515138@kanga.nu>
Message-ID: <p0433010db5fe95f6a07a@[17.216.27.250]>

At 12:32 PM -0700 10/2/00, J C Lawrence wrote:
>Its purely there so that someone away from their normal accounts can
>continue to operate.  Look at it this way:
>
>Given the confirm business:
>
>   Authentication is two level: you know the subscription address and
>   you get mail sent to it.
>
>Given a password:
>
>   Authentication is two level: you know the subscription address and
>   the password associated with it.

But, how much work is this, and what does it accomplish that simply 
e-mailing the admin for help in a case like this doesn't? And how 
many users would actually do it?

On my lists, I can honestly say that the percentage of users who'd do 
this is well under 1% (I say this with some confidence, since I've 
run MLMs with functionality like this in the past). I think my user 
base is fairly typical. I can't justify spending lots of programming 
resources on functions that only the hard-core off-the-bell-curve 
folks (like some list-admins, but I'd bet most folks on this list 
running mailman wouldn't use this!) would use.

Is this a feature for general use? In theory, maybe. In practice, no. 
So why put much programming energy into it?

Nice to have, low priority. IMHO.

-- 
Chuq Von Rospach - Plaidworks Consulting (mailto:chuqui at plaidworks.com)
Apple Mail List Gnome (mailto:chuq at apple.com)

You seem a decent fellow. I hate to die.



From chuqui at plaidworks.com  Mon Oct  2 21:50:55 2000
From: chuqui at plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach)
Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 12:50:55 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: cleartext passwords
In-Reply-To: <02a701c02ca6$82060600$7d266f9c@cpmc.columbia.edu>
References: <MFEHJMLCCICAAHLGFNAAKELBCBAA.tneff@bigfoot.com>
 <32721.970510292@kanga.nu> <p04330106b5fe8212f56c@[17.216.27.250]>
 <chuqui@plaidworks.com> <2729.970512493@kanga.nu>
 <20001002121025.B528@ssc.com>
 <02a701c02ca6$82060600$7d266f9c@cpmc.columbia.edu>
Message-ID: <p0433010eb5fe96fdde4a@[17.216.27.250]>

At 3:25 PM -0400 10/2/00, Gary Wilson wrote:
>
>I wish there were a way to turn off passwords altogether. But there's not.
>And its not an option in beta6. Since there has been no comment on this
>subject by the primary developers, I think that you should assume that it
>won't be an option in version 2.0.

turning off passwords isn't a 2.0 thing. turning off reminders can be 
done a few ways. that's not a problem.

>
>I wish one of the Mailman developers would make it clear whether or not
>passwords will be made optional, and if so when it will be implemented.

Well, basically right now, that means Barry. I believe he's said in 
the past it'll be looked at. I can say that I'd be amazed if it 
magically snuck into 2.0, since he wants it final a month ago.

And if it's really important to someone, don't wait for Barry. Start 
coding, and submit the changes to SourceForge for evaluation.... it's 
not like the code is proprietary. If you all wait for someone else to 
do it, it'll get done on someone else's view of priorities...

I'd like to see optional passwords in 2.1, among other things. But 
only Barry knows for sure, and I don't think he's really looking at a 
2.1 deliverable list yet, he's worrying about finishing 2.0 first.

-- 
Chuq Von Rospach - Plaidworks Consulting (mailto:chuqui at plaidworks.com)
Apple Mail List Gnome (mailto:chuq at apple.com)

You seem a decent fellow. I hate to die.



From dan at ssc.com  Mon Oct  2 21:52:26 2000
From: dan at ssc.com (Dan Wilder)
Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 12:52:26 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: cleartext passwords
In-Reply-To: <02a701c02ca6$82060600$7d266f9c@cpmc.columbia.edu>; from wilsong@sergievsky.cpmc.columbia.edu on Mon, Oct 02, 2000 at 03:25:22PM -0400
References: <MFEHJMLCCICAAHLGFNAAKELBCBAA.tneff@bigfoot.com> <32721.970510292@kanga.nu> <p04330106b5fe8212f56c@[17.216.27.250]> <chuqui@plaidworks.com> <2729.970512493@kanga.nu> <20001002121025.B528@ssc.com> <02a701c02ca6$82060600$7d266f9c@cpmc.columbia.edu>
Message-ID: <20001002125226.C640@ssc.com>

On Mon, Oct 02, 2000 at 03:25:22PM -0400, Gary Wilson wrote:
> I wish there were a way to turn off passwords altogether. But there's not.
> And its not an option in beta6. Since there has been no comment on this
> subject by the primary developers, I think that you should assume that it
> won't be an option in version 2.0.

Sounds like there's some movement in that direction.  

Like you say, I could do as well with no passwords at all.

> I think that you'll have to start looking for another listserver program. I
> know that I will have to if the passwords can't be turned off. I have a
> server with something like 10 lists, and the person responsible for
> administering every one of those lists is complaining about the extra
> administrative hassles that are imposed on them because users can't change
> things without a password.

At this point we're using Majordomo, which is satisfactory enough for
the moment, and Mailman is "another server."  We've a few problems
with Majordomo, but nothing critical to the point of demanding an 
immediate move.

We'd like to move to something better than Majordomo, and if we can dispose
of the various nuisances related to passwords, it looks like Mailman
is the leading candidate.

> 
> I wish one of the Mailman developers would make it clear whether or not
> passwords will be made optional, and if so when it will be implemented.
> 
> Gary
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users maillist  -  Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> 

-----------------------------------------------------------------
 Dan Wilder <dan at ssc.com>
 SSC, Inc. P.O. Box 55549             Phone:  206-782-7733 x123
 Seattle, WA  98155-0549              URL     http://www.ssc.com/
-----------------------------------------------------------------



From claw at kanga.nu  Mon Oct  2 21:58:48 2000
From: claw at kanga.nu (J C Lawrence)
Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2000 12:58:48 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: cleartext passwords 
In-Reply-To: Message from "Gary Wilson" <wilsong@sergievsky.cpmc.columbia.edu> 
   of "Mon, 02 Oct 2000 15:25:22 EDT." <02a701c02ca6$82060600$7d266f9c@cpmc.columbia.edu> 
References: <MFEHJMLCCICAAHLGFNAAKELBCBAA.tneff@bigfoot.com> <32721.970510292@kanga.nu> <p04330106b5fe8212f56c@[17.216.27.250]> <chuqui@plaidworks.com> <2729.970512493@kanga.nu> <20001002121025.B528@ssc.com>  <02a701c02ca6$82060600$7d266f9c@cpmc.columbia.edu> 
Message-ID: <8088.970516728@kanga.nu>

On Mon, 2 Oct 2000 15:25:22 -0400 
Gary Wilson <wilsong at sergievsky.cpmc.columbia.edu> wrote:

> I wish one of the Mailman developers would make it clear whether
> or not passwords will be made optional, and if so when it will be
> implemented.

Loosely:

  Nobody who is writing code for Mailman has popped up and said they 
  would do it.

  Nobody else has proposed a patch for Mailman.

  Nobody has been sufficiently convincing that it is a MUST-HAVE for 
  v2.0 (I don't recommend this argument).

This is Open Source after all.  

-- 
J C Lawrence                                 Home: claw at kanga.nu
---------(*)                               Other: coder at kanga.nu
http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/        Keys etc: finger claw at kanga.nu
--=| A man is as sane as he is dangerous to his environment |=--



From claw at kanga.nu  Mon Oct  2 22:03:19 2000
From: claw at kanga.nu (J C Lawrence)
Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2000 13:03:19 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: cleartext passwords 
In-Reply-To: Message from Chuq Von Rospach <chuqui@plaidworks.com> 
   of "Mon, 02 Oct 2000 12:47:37 PDT." <p0433010db5fe95f6a07a@[17.216.27.250]> 
References: <MFEHJMLCCICAAHLGFNAAKELBCBAA.tneff@bigfoot.com> <32721.970510292@kanga.nu> <p04330106b5fe8212f56c@[17.216.27.250]> <2729.970512493@kanga.nu> <p04330109b5fe8f340844@[17.216.27.250]> <5908.970515138@kanga.nu>  <p0433010db5fe95f6a07a@[17.216.27.250]> 
Message-ID: <8450.970516999@kanga.nu>

On Mon, 2 Oct 2000 12:47:37 -0700 
Chuq Von Rospach <chuqui at plaidworks.com> wrote:

> At 12:32 PM -0700 10/2/00, J C Lawrence wrote:
>> Its purely there so that someone away from their normal accounts
>> can continue to operate.  Look at it this way:
>> 
>> Given the confirm business:
>> 
>> Authentication is two level: you know the subscription address
>> and you get mail sent to it.
>> 
>> Given a password:
>> 
>> Authentication is two level: you know the subscription address
>> and the password associated with it.

> But, how much work is this, and what does it accomplish that
> simply e-mailing the admin for help in a case like this doesn't?
> And how many users would actually do it?

As to how many, I don't know and I suspect the number would be
extremely small (but would enclude me).  As to admin help, I don't
believe that a list server should encourage traffic to the list
owner, or even make it ever so slightly easier.

My standard and rote policy is to always refuse all requests for
help from me as the list owner.  I will not unsubscribe anyone, or
change their list options for them.  I answer questions and point to
things they can do for themselves.  I will point them at the list
pages, and help them understand what they need to do, and that's
about it.

> On my lists, I can honestly say that the percentage of users who'd
> do this is well under 1% (I say this with some confidence, since
> I've run MLMs with functionality like this in the past). I think
> my user base is fairly typical. I can't justify spending lots of
> programming resources on functions that only the hard-core
> off-the-bell-curve folks (like some list-admins, but I'd bet most
> folks on this list running mailman wouldn't use this!) would use.

I stand convicted (and that's without a truss).

> Is this a feature for general use? In theory, maybe. In practice,
> no.  So why put much programming energy into it?

Largely because its there already.

-- 
J C Lawrence                                 Home: claw at kanga.nu
---------(*)                               Other: coder at kanga.nu
http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/        Keys etc: finger claw at kanga.nu
--=| A man is as sane as he is dangerous to his environment |=--



From wilsong at sergievsky.cpmc.columbia.edu  Mon Oct  2 22:07:52 2000
From: wilsong at sergievsky.cpmc.columbia.edu (Gary Wilson)
Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 16:07:52 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: cleartext passwords
References: <MFEHJMLCCICAAHLGFNAAKELBCBAA.tneff@bigfoot.com> <32721.970510292@kanga.nu> <p04330106b5fe8212f56c@[17.216.27.250]> <chuqui@plaidworks.com> <2729.970512493@kanga.nu> <20001002121025.B528@ssc.com> <02a701c02ca6$82060600$7d266f9c@cpmc.columbia.edu> <20001002125226.C640@ssc.com>
Message-ID: <03c401c02cac$71dfe6f0$7d266f9c@cpmc.columbia.edu>

> At this point we're using Majordomo, which is satisfactory enough for
> the moment, and Mailman is "another server."  We've a few problems
> with Majordomo, but nothing critical to the point of demanding an
> immediate move.
>
> We'd like to move to something better than Majordomo, and if we can
dispose
> of the various nuisances related to passwords, it looks like Mailman
> is the leading candidate.
>
I'd agree that Mailman is in almost all ways an excellent choice to replace
Majordomo.

It has many excellent features.

My ONLY problem with it is that it requires passwords (a unique feature not
found on any other listserver that I know of, so that users find it an
unfamiliar requirement) and that the required passwords aren't optional.
When Mailman has so many options that are configurable, I don't know how
this one got overlooked. :-)

I'm hoping for a change (in the password requirement area). I really don't
want to abandon Mailman. But I also can't continue to ignore the hundreds of
administrative requests that each list administrator must bear because of
the unique password requirement.

Gary




From chuqui at plaidworks.com  Mon Oct  2 22:14:53 2000
From: chuqui at plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach)
Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 13:14:53 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: cleartext passwords
In-Reply-To: <8450.970516999@kanga.nu>
References: <MFEHJMLCCICAAHLGFNAAKELBCBAA.tneff@bigfoot.com>
 <32721.970510292@kanga.nu> <p04330106b5fe8212f56c@[17.216.27.250]>
 <2729.970512493@kanga.nu> <p04330109b5fe8f340844@[17.216.27.250]>
 <5908.970515138@kanga.nu>  <p0433010db5fe95f6a07a@[17.216.27.250]>
 <8450.970516999@kanga.nu>
Message-ID: <p0433010fb5fe9c8b2d59@[17.216.27.250]>

At 1:03 PM -0700 10/2/00, J C Lawrence wrote:
>As to admin help, I don't
>believe that a list server should encourage traffic to the list
>owner, or even make it ever so slightly easier.

Agreed, but -- there's a practical tradeoff here. Lots of things 
people want, and finite development resources. I think NOT 
implementing a feature that could take a couple of weeks or longer to 
implement and putting that time into some other, higher-priority 
feature is a good idea, if the tradeoff is one or two requests a 
month to the list admin.

>My standard and rote policy is to always refuse all requests for
>help from me as the list owner.  I will not unsubscribe anyone, or
>change their list options for them.  I answer questions and point to
>things they can do for themselves.  I will point them at the list
>pages, and help them understand what they need to do, and that's
>about it.

I somewhat do the same, only I evaluate requests on a case by case 
basis, and handle things that make sense to handle. I don't "never" 
do anything.

And again, there's a tradeoff. I'd rather generate a few messages to 
an admin than spend weeks implementing a feature that'll only be used 
by 1% of the users. Soemtimes the time it takes to implement a 
feature just doesn't make snse.


-- 
Chuq Von Rospach - Plaidworks Consulting (mailto:chuqui at plaidworks.com)
Apple Mail List Gnome (mailto:chuq at apple.com)

You seem a decent fellow. I hate to die.



From chuqui at plaidworks.com  Mon Oct  2 23:28:35 2000
From: chuqui at plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach)
Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 14:28:35 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: cleartext passwords
In-Reply-To: <8450.970516999@kanga.nu>
References: <MFEHJMLCCICAAHLGFNAAKELBCBAA.tneff@bigfoot.com>
 <32721.970510292@kanga.nu> <p04330106b5fe8212f56c@[17.216.27.250]>
 <2729.970512493@kanga.nu> <p04330109b5fe8f340844@[17.216.27.250]>
 <5908.970515138@kanga.nu>  <p0433010db5fe95f6a07a@[17.216.27.250]>
 <8450.970516999@kanga.nu>
Message-ID: <p0433011bb5feadfa49ae@[17.216.27.250]>

At 1:03 PM -0700 10/2/00, J C Lawrence wrote:
>As to how many, I don't know and I suspect the number would be
>extremely small (but would enclude me).  As to admin help, I don't
>believe that a list server should encourage traffic to the list
>owner, or even make it ever so slightly easier.
>
>My standard and rote policy is to always refuse all requests for
>help from me as the list owner.  I will not unsubscribe anyone, or
>change their list options for them.  I answer questions and point to
>things they can do for themselves.  I will point them at the list
>pages, and help them understand what they need to do, and that's
>about it.

thinking about it, if this is your policy, then you should be 
screaming for a way for users to change their addresses without 
unsubscribing and starting over, because that's easily 50% of the 
requests I get sent. Everything else is a trivial priority compared 
to that...

There's a lot of things we want to do with mailman. I think it's 
important we figure out which ones are important and best affect the 
users, and do those first... That is, I guess, the point I was trying 
to make. Not that a feature like this isn't worthy, but that other 
features are more worthy...


-- 
Chuq Von Rospach - Plaidworks Consulting (mailto:chuqui at plaidworks.com)
Apple Mail List Gnome (mailto:chuq at apple.com)

You seem a decent fellow. I hate to die.



From jeme at brelin.net  Mon Oct  2 23:33:28 2000
From: jeme at brelin.net (Jeme A Brelin)
Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 14:33:28 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: The Password Feature.
In-Reply-To: <03c401c02cac$71dfe6f0$7d266f9c@cpmc.columbia.edu>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0010021426520.28021-100000@shaft.bitmine.net>

On Mon, 2 Oct 2000, Gary Wilson wrote:
> My ONLY problem with it is that it requires passwords (a unique
> feature not found on any other listserver that I know of, so that
> users find it an unfamiliar requirement) and that the required
> passwords aren't optional. When Mailman has so many options that are
> configurable, I don't know how this one got overlooked. :-)

I don't see how Mailman is even remotely useful without passwords.

With passwords, you can:
read list mail on the web
change your configuration
subscribe/unsubcribe

Without passwords, you can:
not access the list when you're away from your mail
hassle the list admin endlessly for check-box changes.

Where's the advantage, exactly?

> I'm hoping for a change (in the password requirement area). I really
> don't want to abandon Mailman. But I also can't continue to ignore the
> hundreds of administrative requests that each list administrator must
> bear because of the unique password requirement.

Well, this isn't commercial software and threatening to leave the
user-base doesn't exactly carry any weight with the developers.  If you
think you'd like to turn off passwords, turn them off.  Go into the code
and kill the authentication routines and let anybody do anything to
anyone's account.  Then see what happens when a listmember gets
hostile.  And how many more admin requests you get from users to fix
problems they could've otherwise fixed themselves (or were created by a
lack of security on the admin pages).

Jeme.
-- 
   -----------------
     Jeme A Brelin
    jeme at brelin.net
   -----------------
 [cc] counter-copyright
 http://www.openlaw.org




From claw at kanga.nu  Mon Oct  2 23:40:55 2000
From: claw at kanga.nu (J C Lawrence)
Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2000 14:40:55 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: cleartext passwords 
In-Reply-To: Message from Chuq Von Rospach <chuqui@plaidworks.com> 
   of "Mon, 02 Oct 2000 14:28:35 PDT." <p0433011bb5feadfa49ae@[17.216.27.250]> 
References: <MFEHJMLCCICAAHLGFNAAKELBCBAA.tneff@bigfoot.com> <32721.970510292@kanga.nu> <p04330106b5fe8212f56c@[17.216.27.250]> <2729.970512493@kanga.nu> <p04330109b5fe8f340844@[17.216.27.250]> <5908.970515138@kanga.nu> <p0433010db5fe95f6a07a@[17.216.27.250]> <8450.970516999@kanga.nu>  <p0433011bb5feadfa49ae@[17.216.27.250]> 
Message-ID: <15498.970522855@kanga.nu>

On Mon, 2 Oct 2000 14:28:35 -0700 
Chuq Von Rospach <chuqui at plaidworks.com> wrote:

> At 1:03 PM -0700 10/2/00, J C Lawrence wrote:
>> As to how many, I don't know and I suspect the number would be
>> extremely small (but would enclude me).  As to admin help, I
>> don't believe that a list server should encourage traffic to the
>> list owner, or even make it ever so slightly easier.
>> 
>> My standard and rote policy is to always refuse all requests for
>> help from me as the list owner.  I will not unsubscribe anyone,
>> or change their list options for them.  I answer questions and
>> point to things they can do for themselves.  I will point them at
>> the list pages, and help them understand what they need to do,
>> and that's about it.

> thinking about it, if this is your policy, then you should be
> screaming for a way for users to change their addresses without
> unsubscribing and starting over, because that's easily 50% of the
> requests I get sent. Everything else is a trivial priority
> compared to that...

Umm, well, yes, almost.  Somehow, and I don't really understand
this, I've got such a nice userbase that they never pop and ask
about that.  It just doesn't come up in the corporate setting (only
corporate addresses are used), and for the public lists I run I get
roughly 2 posts a month asking for list-owner help (lotsa emppty
months, I got 3 so far this month, so its an odds game), and circa
20 posts a month discussing my moderation decisions for those lists.

So, no, its just not a problem for me.  OTOH I'm thinking I should
bottle and sell this stuff I'm smoking for list members.  People
kill for subsciber bases like this.

> There's a lot of things we want to do with mailman. I think it's
> important we figure out which ones are important and best affect
> the users, and do those first... That is, I guess, the point I was
> trying to make. Not that a feature like this isn't worthy, but
> that other features are more worthy...

<nod>

I like the URL/ack concept.  Its damned elegant and extremely
non-user invasive.  Further, given the current support for token on
subscribe commands, implementation shouldn't (yeah right) be that
intrusive.

-- 
J C Lawrence                                 Home: claw at kanga.nu
---------(*)                               Other: coder at kanga.nu
http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/        Keys etc: finger claw at kanga.nu
--=| A man is as sane as he is dangerous to his environment |=--



From chuqui at plaidworks.com  Mon Oct  2 23:45:39 2000
From: chuqui at plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach)
Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 14:45:39 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: cleartext passwords
In-Reply-To: <15498.970522855@kanga.nu>
References: <MFEHJMLCCICAAHLGFNAAKELBCBAA.tneff@bigfoot.com>
 <32721.970510292@kanga.nu> <p04330106b5fe8212f56c@[17.216.27.250]>
 <2729.970512493@kanga.nu> <p04330109b5fe8f340844@[17.216.27.250]>
 <5908.970515138@kanga.nu> <p0433010db5fe95f6a07a@[17.216.27.250]>
 <8450.970516999@kanga.nu>  <p0433011bb5feadfa49ae@[17.216.27.250]>
 <15498.970522855@kanga.nu>
Message-ID: <p0433011db5feb25d48ac@[17.216.27.250]>

At 2:40 PM -0700 10/2/00, J C Lawrence wrote:
>So, no, its just not a problem for me.  OTOH I'm thinking I should
>bottle and sell this stuff I'm smoking for list members.  People
>kill for subsciber bases like this.

please do. I've had eight "I have a new address, how do I fix this?" today....

-- 
Chuq Von Rospach - Plaidworks Consulting (mailto:chuqui at plaidworks.com)
Apple Mail List Gnome (mailto:chuq at apple.com)

You seem a decent fellow. I hate to die.



From chuqui at plaidworks.com  Mon Oct  2 23:52:04 2000
From: chuqui at plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach)
Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 14:52:04 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: The Password Feature.
In-Reply-To: 
 <Pine.LNX.4.21.0010021426520.28021-100000@shaft.bitmine.net>
References: 
 <Pine.LNX.4.21.0010021426520.28021-100000@shaft.bitmine.net>
Message-ID: <p0433011fb5feb32b7962@[17.216.27.250]>

At 2:33 PM -0700 10/2/00, Jeme A Brelin wrote:
>With passwords, you can:
>read list mail on the web
>change your configuration
>subscribe/unsubcribe
>
>Without passwords, you can:
>not access the list when you're away from your mail
>hassle the list admin endlessly for check-box changes.
>
>Where's the advantage, exactly?

sure you can. We're not talking about doing away with the 
functionality, but changing it to make it easier. For instance, 
instead of requiring users to maintain passwords, have them requiest 
an email that has a URL in it that when you go to the URL lodges an 
authentification cookie for those things. That's a LOT nicer than 
dinking with passwords.

There are some functions where passwords simply aren't necessary, but 
are currently required (for instance, unsubs). And I think the 
biggest problem with passwords is requiring users to deal with them 
when they don't need to. For instance simply ignore passwords until 
you hit a function that needs it, then send the user a password for 
the operation as a validation. One-time passwords would be a lot more 
flexible and easier on the user, for instance, especially if you have 
the option of picking one up good for 24 hours that cna be used with 
email commands and/or to set an auth cookie...

-- 
Chuq Von Rospach - Plaidworks Consulting (mailto:chuqui at plaidworks.com)
Apple Mail List Gnome (mailto:chuq at apple.com)

You seem a decent fellow. I hate to die.



From michael at spconnect.com  Mon Oct  2 23:59:03 2000
From: michael at spconnect.com (Michael Ghens)
Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 14:59:03 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Possible bug?: Ghost Reminders
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0010021452320.29852-100000@merlin.spconnect.com>

I received a report from someone who had unsudded from the list, yet,
still received a "reminder".

I checked the membership list, and sure enough, he was not on the list. 

I am using MM2.0b6




From kaw at zrodla.most.org.pl  Tue Oct  3 00:04:18 2000
From: kaw at zrodla.most.org.pl (Krzysztof Wychowalek)
Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 00:04:18 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] admin password
Message-ID: <20001002220300.E26FB1CC07@dinsdale.python.org>

When the subscriber forget his/her password, it is easy just to 
click into "mail me the password" button and the password is sent 
immediatelly.
But what should the list-admin do if he forgot the list password? :-o 

Krzysztof Wychowalek
ICQ# 34184303
GSM +48602824334
PGP Key ID 0xEA9D2A3C



From wilsong at sergievsky.cpmc.columbia.edu  Tue Oct  3 00:25:56 2000
From: wilsong at sergievsky.cpmc.columbia.edu (Gary Wilson)
Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 18:25:56 -0400
Subject: Fw: [Mailman-Users] Re: The Password Feature.
Message-ID: <014f01c02cbf$c0268720$0a00a8c0@linux>

----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary Wilson" <wilsong at sergievsky.cpmc.columbia.edu>
To: "Jeme A Brelin" <jeme at brelin.net>
Sent: Monday, October 02, 2000 6:24 PM
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Re: The Password Feature.


> Well, this isn't commercial software and threatening to leave the
> user-base doesn't exactly carry any weight with the developers.  If you
> think you'd like to turn off passwords, turn them off.  Go into the code
> and kill the authentication routines and let anybody do anything to
> anyone's account.  Then see what happens when a listmember gets
> hostile.  And how many more admin requests you get from users to fix
> problems they could've otherwise fixed themselves (or were created by a
> lack of security on the admin pages).
>

I am not threatening. The developers may want to know why users are leaving.
They probably care.

Most open source software developers I've worked with like to get feedback.

Your comments are not helpful and they don't offer any solution.

There was a very elegent solution just suggested by Chuq, a solution that
would work for everyone.

Your comments indicate to me that at best your experience with mail lists is
limited. All the features you are talking about are available on other list
servers without the limiting password required by Mailman. Most use a
confirm/password option for changes that is sent to the mail address. This
is a much better solution and I have never heard anyone explain why Mailman
rejected the industry-standard for what to me is a quirky solution.

Gary






From chuqui at plaidworks.com  Tue Oct  3 01:01:10 2000
From: chuqui at plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach)
Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 16:01:10 -0700
Subject: Fw: [Mailman-Users] Re: The Password Feature.
In-Reply-To: <014f01c02cbf$c0268720$0a00a8c0@linux>
References: <014f01c02cbf$c0268720$0a00a8c0@linux>
Message-ID: <p04330123b5fec29217c0@[17.216.27.250]>

At 6:25 PM -0400 10/2/00, Gary Wilson wrote:

>I am not threatening. The developers may want to know why users are leaving.
>They probably care.

they care, but look at it from the other side. People who work as 
volunteers on ANY project get a lot of "I want this fixed, and you 
have to do it" stuff. It's not just open source, it's not 
programming, it's any volunteer organization. Lots of chiefs, few 
indians.

So anyone involved in these things tends to both get a thick skin, 
and also a little sensitive, when they run into things that can be 
interpreted that way. Whether or not it's intended that way.

it's easy to be misinterpreted on the net, since so many 
communication cues are missing or muddled (that's been a long, long 
research area of mine, trying to understand how to deal with the 
limitations of the online world). You need to be careful to frame 
what you say properly, and understanding when it's not....

And... We're *all* developers of mailman, really. Some are just more 
active than others.

>Most open source software developers I've worked with like to get feedback.

Yes, but not all feedback is created equal. It helps to frame things 
in constructive ways, and whether it's intended or not, "do this or 
I'm leaving" isn't really constructive. It *does* come across as 
threatening, although to be honest, my response was "and I care for 
what reason?" -- because the other nice thing about open source is 
that a given software package doesn't have to pretend to be 
everything for everyone. Rather than try to solve every problem with 
mediocrity, mailman can solve a certain set of problems exceptionally 
well, and if it doesn't solve your set of problems, there are other 
options. Or you can write one! The joys of no monopolies, no?

>Your comments indicate to me that at best your experience with mail lists is
>limited.

well, mine goes back 20 years, and I currently have a number of MLM's 
that are 100% my code in production. And I reacted the same way, 
Gary. I just dealt with it differently. I think what you said 
probably wasn't what you intended, but I don't think the 
interpretation was too out of line.

-- 
Chuq Von Rospach - Plaidworks Consulting (mailto:chuqui at plaidworks.com)
Apple Mail List Gnome (mailto:chuq at apple.com)

You seem a decent fellow. I hate to die.



From chuqui at plaidworks.com  Tue Oct  3 01:02:17 2000
From: chuqui at plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach)
Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 16:02:17 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Possible bug?: Ghost Reminders
In-Reply-To: 
 <Pine.LNX.4.21.0010021452320.29852-100000@merlin.spconnect.com>
References: 
 <Pine.LNX.4.21.0010021452320.29852-100000@merlin.spconnect.com>
Message-ID: <p04330124b5fec4407cdb@[17.216.27.250]>

At 2:59 PM -0700 10/2/00, Michael Ghens wrote:
>I received a report from someone who had unsudded from the list, yet,
>still received a "reminder".
>
>I checked the membership list, and sure enough, he was not on the list.

Mutter. I know I remember seeing this once before. I don't know how 
it was resolved, but check the archives. it seems to be a really rare 
thing, but if a second site's seen it, I guess it needs to be looked 
at if we can figure out what's going on....
-- 
Chuq Von Rospach - Plaidworks Consulting (mailto:chuqui at plaidworks.com)
Apple Mail List Gnome (mailto:chuq at apple.com)

You seem a decent fellow. I hate to die.



From wilsong at sergievsky.cpmc.columbia.edu  Tue Oct  3 02:27:20 2000
From: wilsong at sergievsky.cpmc.columbia.edu (Gary Wilson)
Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 20:27:20 -0400
Subject: Fw: Fw: [Mailman-Users] Re: The Password Feature.
Message-ID: <023401c02cd0$b16e7600$0a00a8c0@linux>

----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary Wilson" <wilsong at sergievsky.cpmc.columbia.edu>
To: "Chuq Von Rospach" <chuqui at plaidworks.com>
Sent: Monday, October 02, 2000 8:26 PM
Subject: Re: Fw: [Mailman-Users] Re: The Password Feature.


> well, mine goes back 20 years, and I currently have a number of MLM's
> that are 100% my code in production. And I reacted the same way,
> Gary. I just dealt with it differently. I think what you said
> probably wasn't what you intended, but I don't think the
> interpretation was too out of line.
>
 Yeah, you're right. Sorry for my bad manners.

I wasn't trying to be demanding. I was trying to point to a problem and then
someone basically flamed me and I got mad. They chose to misread what I
wrote as a threat. After years on the net, I know that you should try to
give someone's comments the benefit of doubt. If you think that I am being
threatening, then ask to make sure you've gotten the right interpretation.

I don't really plan to drop Mailman for any reason. I have nothing to
threaten with. And I'm sure the developers wouldn't be impressed one way or
the other with either me making demands or threatening them.

I do still think that they are interested in feedback. What I was originally
discussing was the password feature, which I would like to see changed. My
point was that the developers have not commented on the issue of passwords.
And someone was saying that they were going to make a decision on whether or
not to use Mailman based on a change in the password feature. Based on what
has been said so far by the developers, such a change isn't planned and will
not be implemented.

This hadn't been made clear and the person who wants to choose Mailman based
on a change in the password feature had been left with the impression that a
change is imminent.

Mailman is a damn fine program and Barry and everyone else working on it
deserve a lot of praise and support. I'm truly sorry if my comments gave any
other impression.

Gary





From jwblist at olympus.net  Tue Oct  3 03:09:37 2000
From: jwblist at olympus.net (John W Baxter)
Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 18:09:37 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: cleartext passwords
In-Reply-To: <p0433010fb5fe9c8b2d59@[17.216.27.250]>
References: <MFEHJMLCCICAAHLGFNAAKELBCBAA.tneff@bigfoot.com>
 <32721.970510292@kanga.nu> <p04330106b5fe8212f56c@[17.216.27.250]>
 <2729.970512493@kanga.nu> <p04330109b5fe8f340844@[17.216.27.250]>
 <5908.970515138@kanga.nu>  <p0433010db5fe95f6a07a@[17.216.27.250]>
 <8450.970516999@kanga.nu> <p0433010fb5fe9c8b2d59@[17.216.27.250]>
Message-ID: <p05001901b5fee1dc6105@[207.149.192.229]>

At 13:14 -0700 10/2/00, Chuq Von Rospach wrote:
>And again, there's a tradeoff. I'd rather generate a few messages to
>an admin than spend weeks implementing a feature that'll only be used
>by 1% of the users. Soemtimes the time it takes to implement a
>feature just doesn't make snse.

Not to mention the opportunity for the little-used code to regress upon
changes to "unrelated, it can't possibly affect that" parts of the code,
requiring yet more programming time to repair.

  --John
-- 
John Baxter   jwblist at olympus.net      Port Ludlow, WA, USA



From dgjs at acm.org  Tue Oct  3 03:54:13 2000
From: dgjs at acm.org (dgjs at acm.org)
Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 18:54:13 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] "unknown mailer error 1"
Message-ID: <200010030152.e931qIh25114@fruitfly.bdgp.berkeley.edu>

I've installed Mailman 2.0beta6 on a Solaris 7 system - Python 1.5.2 -
GCC 2.95 - Sendmail 8.10.2 - Apache 1.3.12.  I've created a "test"
mailing list, and have attempted to subscribe myself to it.  All of the
subscription confirmations I send to "test-request@[my mail server]"
bounce with the error message:

   ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----
|/home/mailman/mail/wrapper mailcmd test
    (reason: 1)
    (expanded from: <test-request@[my mail server]>)

   ----- Transcript of session follows -----
sh: /home/mailman/mail/wrapper.mailcmd.test: not found
554 5.3.0 |/home/mailman/mail/wrapper mailcmd test... unknown mailer error 1

The "INSTALL" file indicates such an error is likely due to a bad
"--with-mail-gid" specification on the initial configure.  I've tried
GID specifications of "root", "other", "daemon", "bin", "mail", and
"mailman", all without success.  ("sendmail" seems to be using "other"
as its default GID.)  "syslog" indicates nothing more than "unknown
mailer error 1".

I'm stuck.  Anybody have any suggestions?

Thanks in advance.

David S.
dgjs at acm.org





From Dan.Mick at West.Sun.COM  Tue Oct  3 04:00:35 2000
From: Dan.Mick at West.Sun.COM (Dan Mick)
Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 19:00:35 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] "unknown mailer error 1"
Message-ID: <200010030159.SAA13792@utopia.west.sun.com>

> I've installed Mailman 2.0beta6 on a Solaris 7 system - Python 1.5.2 -
> GCC 2.95 - Sendmail 8.10.2 - Apache 1.3.12.  I've created a "test"
> mailing list, and have attempted to subscribe myself to it.  All of the
> subscription confirmations I send to "test-request@[my mail server]"
> bounce with the error message:
> 
>    ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----
> |/home/mailman/mail/wrapper mailcmd test
>     (reason: 1)
>     (expanded from: <test-request@[my mail server]>)
> 
>    ----- Transcript of session follows -----
> sh: /home/mailman/mail/wrapper.mailcmd.test: not found

Those dots there are a clue.  I suspect something has interpreted
that command as an alias, so I suspect your aliases file says
something like:

test-request: |/home/mailman/mail/wrapper mailcmd test

Try enclosing the whole thing in quotes, as bin/newlist says to do:

test-request: "|/home/mailman/mail/wrapper mailcmd test"




From mentor at alb-net.com  Tue Oct  3 04:10:10 2000
From: mentor at alb-net.com (Mentor Cana)
Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 22:10:10 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] "download the full raw archive"
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0010022206280.5021-100000@alb-net.com>

Doesn't this link run contrary to the "obscure_addresses" Option?

Even if I have the obscure_addresses Option set to YES, the e-mail
addresses of public archives can be still harvested by various robots out
there.

later,
Mentor




From claw at kanga.nu  Tue Oct  3 04:25:16 2000
From: claw at kanga.nu (J C Lawrence)
Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2000 19:25:16 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] admin password 
In-Reply-To: Message from "Krzysztof Wychowalek" <kaw@zrodla.most.org.pl> 
   of "Tue, 03 Oct 2000 00:04:18 +0200." <20001002220300.E26FB1CC07@dinsdale.python.org> 
References: <20001002220300.E26FB1CC07@dinsdale.python.org> 
Message-ID: <1630.970539916@kanga.nu>

On Tue, 3 Oct 2000 00:04:18 +0200 
Krzysztof Wychowalek <kaw at zrodla.most.org.pl> wrote:

> When the subscriber forget his/her password, it is easy just to
> click into "mail me the password" button and the password is sent
> immediatelly.  But what should the list-admin do if he forgot the
> list password? 

Someone who knows the site password for Mailman will have to reset
the list password.

-- 
J C Lawrence                                 Home: claw at kanga.nu
---------(*)                               Other: coder at kanga.nu
http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/        Keys etc: finger claw at kanga.nu
--=| A man is as sane as he is dangerous to his environment |=--



From claw at kanga.nu  Tue Oct  3 04:28:18 2000
From: claw at kanga.nu (J C Lawrence)
Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2000 19:28:18 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Possible bug?: Ghost Reminders 
In-Reply-To: Message from Chuq Von Rospach <chuqui@plaidworks.com> 
   of "Mon, 02 Oct 2000 16:02:17 PDT." <p04330124b5fec4407cdb@[17.216.27.250]> 
References: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0010021452320.29852-100000@merlin.spconnect.com>  <p04330124b5fec4407cdb@[17.216.27.250]> 
Message-ID: <1839.970540098@kanga.nu>

On Mon, 2 Oct 2000 16:02:17 -0700 
Chuq Von Rospach <chuqui at plaidworks.com> wrote:

> At 2:59 PM -0700 10/2/00, Michael Ghens wrote:
>> I received a report from someone who had unsudded from the list,
>> yet, still received a "reminder".
>> 
>> I checked the membership list, and sure enough, he was not on the
>> list.

> Mutter. I know I remember seeing this once before. I don't know
> how it was resolved, but check the archives. it seems to be a
> really rare thing, but if a second site's seen it, I guess it
> needs to be looked at if we can figure out what's going on.... 

It happened to me using one of the v1.0 (long time back).  I traced
it down to something being corrupted in the pickled list DB, but
couldn't find out how it got there.  I wasn't enirely worried that
it was Mailman's fault at the time as the machine was rather less
than stable and it could have been simple filesystem corruption from
having to be fscked every other day.

-- 
J C Lawrence                                 Home: claw at kanga.nu
---------(*)                               Other: coder at kanga.nu
http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/        Keys etc: finger claw at kanga.nu
--=| A man is as sane as he is dangerous to his environment |=--



From hwg at vsl.cua.edu  Tue Oct  3 06:14:24 2000
From: hwg at vsl.cua.edu (Guess Who.....)
Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 23:14:24 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mail error 2?
Message-ID: <200010030414.XAA83847@gateway.vsl.cua.edu>

Anyone know what Mail error 2 is?
Julian



From dgporter at erols.com  Tue Oct  3 06:01:30 2000
From: dgporter at erols.com (Don Porter)
Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 00:01:30 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] No, not that "address"
Message-ID: <E13gJLs-00038e-00@smtp01.mrf.mail.rcn.net>

Got a message from a user today complaining she could not gain access
to the subscriber list of a mailing list.  The system told her that
her "authentication failed".  Was this because she changed her password?

After a few messages exchanged, it turns out that in the entry labeled
"Address" she was entering her *postal* address!

Perhaps that entry should be labeled "E-mail" instead?

-- 
| Don Porter                                       dgporter at erols.com  |  
|           "Some days you just can't get rid of a bomb!"              |
|                       -- Adam West as BATMAN                         | 
|______________________________________________________________________|




From chris at gwydion.net  Tue Oct  3 10:45:25 2000
From: chris at gwydion.net (Silk)
Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 09:45:25 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] "unknown mailer error 1"
In-Reply-To: <200010030159.SAA13792@utopia.west.sun.com>; from Dan.Mick@West.Sun.COM on Mon, Oct 02, 2000 at 07:00:35PM -0700
References: <200010030159.SAA13792@utopia.west.sun.com>
Message-ID: <20001003094525.C6076@gwydion.net>

> >    ----- Transcript of session follows -----
> > sh: /home/mailman/mail/wrapper.mailcmd.test: not found
> 
> Those dots there are a clue.  I suspect something has interpreted
> that command as an alias, so I suspect your aliases file says
> something like:
> 
> test-request: |/home/mailman/mail/wrapper mailcmd test
> 
> Try enclosing the whole thing in quotes, as bin/newlist says to do:
> 
> test-request: "|/home/mailman/mail/wrapper mailcmd test"

Hi: I'm about to include the text of a mail I sent yesterday, which
is having similar behaviour. The MTA in question for me is Exim:

------------------------==================--------------------------
> So, you found out how to create the lists? Let me know....

By command-line using newlist:

I am, however, having a problem with it: it goes like this.

The txt file attached is a log extract from /var/log/exim/mainlog
showing the logged bits for two posts. One is the 'confirm' response
required to subscribe to a list and the other is an attempt to
post to that list. I've put, as you can tell from these logs, the
correct lines generated by 'newlist' into /etc/aliases, however, this is
what I get.

What have I mis-configured? It looks like an exim misconfiguration,
but mailman hasn't as yet told me to do anything more than what I've
done to make it work...
------------------------==================--------------------------

And another file read in, which is the attached error message
generated by exim/mainlog:

------------------------==================--------------------------
2000-10-02 15:45:48 13g6qi-0002hj-00 <= chris at foo.org U=chris P=local S=675 id=20001002154548.A8924 at foo.org
2000-10-02 15:45:48 13g6qi-0002hj-00 Neither the system_aliases director nor the address_pipe transport set a uid for local delivery of |/var/lib/mailman/mail/wrapper mailcmd house
2000-10-02 15:46:58 13g6rq-0002lu-00 <= chris at foo.org U=chris P=local S=565 id=20001002154658.B8924 at foo.org
2000-10-02 15:46:58 13g6rq-0002lu-00 Neither the system_aliases director nor the address_pipe transport set a uid for local delivery of |/var/lib/mailman/mail/wrapper post house
------------------------==================--------------------------

My etc/aliases looks like this:

## test mailing list
## created: 02-Oct-2000 chris
test:                    "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/wrapper post test"
test-admin:              "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/wrapper mailowner test"
test-request:            "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/wrapper mailcmd test"
test-owner:              test-admin

So: what have *I* done wrong? I can't seem to work it out.

~cHris

-- 
Chris Naden - chris at gwydion dot net

" Sometimes, home is just where you pour your coffee... "
             - Bruno Baldwin



From Nigel.Metheringham at VData.co.uk  Tue Oct  3 11:10:55 2000
From: Nigel.Metheringham at VData.co.uk (Nigel Metheringham)
Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 10:10:55 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] "unknown mailer error 1" 
In-Reply-To: Message from Silk <chris@gwydion.net> 
   of "Tue, 03 Oct 2000 09:45:25 BST." <20001003094525.C6076@gwydion.net> 
Message-ID: <E13gO6B-0003XY-00@rioja.localnet>

chris at gwydion.net said:
> What have I mis-configured? It looks like an exim misconfiguration,
> but mailman hasn't as yet told me to do anything more than what I've
> done to make it work... 

The quick fix is just to add a user= line on your exim aliases director 
(so that pipe commands have a user to run as) - have a look at the main 
exim documentation for details.

You may well want to look at the exim/mailman howto - its in the 
release version as README.exim or online at
	http://www.exim.org/howto/mailman.html

	Nigel.
-- 
[ - Opinions expressed are personal and may not be shared by VData - ]
[ Nigel Metheringham                  Nigel.Metheringham at VData.co.uk ]
[ Phone: +44 1423 850000                         Fax +44 1423 858866 ]





From oscare at fib.upc.es  Tue Oct  3 11:39:38 2000
From: oscare at fib.upc.es (Oscar Renalias)
Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 11:39:38 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Strange error
Message-ID: <39D9A95A.7759B912@fib.upc.es>

I've configured mailman successfully in a couple of Linux machines, but
now I'm trying to configure Mailman 2.0b6 under a SunOS 5.6, and when
running the wrapper, and after solving the common "Unknown mailer error
2", and I get an error I had never seen before:

Oct  3 11:28:02 my_machine sendmail[9396]: LAA04695:
to="|/home2/users/mailman/mail/wrapper post test", delay=00:23:42,
xdelay=00:00:01, mailer=prog, stat=Operating system error: Error 0

Any idea of what does "Operating system error: Error 0" mean?

Thank you in advance.
-- 
Oscar Renalias - oscare at fib.upc.es - LCFIB
House music is a state of mind



From oscare at fib.upc.es  Tue Oct  3 12:15:44 2000
From: oscare at fib.upc.es (Oscar Renalias)
Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 12:15:44 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Strange error
References: <39D9A95A.7759B912@fib.upc.es>
Message-ID: <39D9B1D0.7D025A10@fib.upc.es>

I reply to myself :P

Oscar Renalias wrote:
> 
> I've configured mailman successfully in a couple of Linux machines, but
> now I'm trying to configure Mailman 2.0b6 under a SunOS 5.6, and when
> running the wrapper, and after solving the common "Unknown mailer error
> 2", and I get an error I had never seen before:
> 
> Oct  3 11:28:02 my_machine sendmail[9396]: LAA04695:
> to="|/home2/users/mailman/mail/wrapper post test", delay=00:23:42,
> xdelay=00:00:01, mailer=prog, stat=Operating system error: Error 0
> 
> Any idea of what does "Operating system error: Error 0" mean?

It was a problem with smrsh. Thank you anyway ;)

-- 
Oscar Renalias - oscare at fib.upc.es - LCFIB
House music is a state of mind



From kwythers at forestry.umn.edu  Tue Oct  3 17:01:48 2000
From: kwythers at forestry.umn.edu (Kirk R. Wythers)
Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 10:01:48 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] help... RH 7.0 broke mailman
Message-ID: <39D9F4DC.A14818E8@forestry.umn.edu>

Does anyone have mailman and RH 7.0 working? In a fit of tech madness I
upgraded my office box to 7.0. After which I tried to administer one of
the lists I have running under mailman I get the, "Not Found...
requested url was not found on this server" message. Any ideas? 

I've ready fixed a pop3 problem (seems the folks at red hat made some
changes in the /etc dir and added a xinetd.d file that needed
attention). I'm figuring that this is something similar. Apache checks
out so that's not the problem. 

Thanks,

Kirk

-- 
Kirk R. Wythers					 University of Minnesota
Email: kwythers at forestry.umn.edu       		 Department of Forest Resources 
Tel: 612.625.22611530                 		 Cleveland Ave. N. 
Fax: 612 625.5212                                Saint Paul,  MN 55108



From chris at gwydion.net  Tue Oct  3 16:53:18 2000
From: chris at gwydion.net (Silk)
Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 15:53:18 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Deleting Lists
Message-ID: <20001003155318.D28832@gwydion.net>

... How? I've asked the question a couple of times now and no-one
has seemed to notice. I can't find anything in the web pages
or the README.xxx's that'll tell me, but that could well be me being
blind.. could someone point me in the right direction?

~chris
-- 
Chris Naden - chris at gwydion dot net

" Sometimes, home is just where you pour your coffee... "
             - Bruno Baldwin



From bug at aphid.net  Tue Oct  3 17:04:01 2000
From: bug at aphid.net (Chuck Dale)
Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 02:04:01 +1100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] help... RH 7.0 broke mailman
In-Reply-To: <39D9F4DC.A14818E8@forestry.umn.edu>; from kwythers@forestry.umn.edu on Tue, Oct 03, 2000 at 10:01:48AM -0500
References: <39D9F4DC.A14818E8@forestry.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <20001004020401.I17680@aphid.net>

Hi Kirk,

Some log output would be helpful.

Chuck

Wrote Kirk R. Wythers on Tue, Oct 03, 2000 at 10:01:48AM -0500:
> Does anyone have mailman and RH 7.0 working? In a fit of tech madness I
> upgraded my office box to 7.0. After which I tried to administer one of
> the lists I have running under mailman I get the, "Not Found...
> requested url was not found on this server" message. Any ideas? 
> 
> I've ready fixed a pop3 problem (seems the folks at red hat made some
> changes in the /etc dir and added a xinetd.d file that needed
> attention). I'm figuring that this is something similar. Apache checks
> out so that's not the problem. 

                               [ bug at aphid.net ]



From sallen at infomanage.net  Tue Oct  3 17:01:56 2000
From: sallen at infomanage.net (Scott D. Allen)
Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 11:01:56 -0400 
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Deleting Lists
Message-ID: <5A09E0C7076AD411AF4400D0B774D1C8017FD4@drabek.wp.infomng.com>

looks like you have to use the rmlist command line option.......

>-----Original Message-----
>From: Silk [mailto:chris at gwydion.net]
>Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2000 10:53 AM
>To: mailman-users at python.org
>Subject: [Mailman-Users] Deleting Lists
>
>
>... How? I've asked the question a couple of times now and no-one
>has seemed to notice. I can't find anything in the web pages
>or the README.xxx's that'll tell me, but that could well be me being
>blind.. could someone point me in the right direction?
>
>~chris
>-- 
>Chris Naden - chris at gwydion dot net
>
>" Sometimes, home is just where you pour your coffee... "
>             - Bruno Baldwin
>
>------------------------------------------------------
>Mailman-Users maillist  -  Mailman-Users at python.org
>http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
>



From bug at aphid.net  Tue Oct  3 17:08:33 2000
From: bug at aphid.net (Chuck Dale)
Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 02:08:33 +1100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Deleting Lists
In-Reply-To: <20001003155318.D28832@gwydion.net>; from chris@gwydion.net on Tue, Oct 03, 2000 at 03:53:18PM +0100
References: <20001003155318.D28832@gwydion.net>
Message-ID: <20001004020833.J17680@aphid.net>

bin/rmlist 

    Should do the trick.

Wrote Silk on Tue, Oct 03, 2000 at 03:53:18PM +0100:
> ... How? I've asked the question a couple of times now and no-one
> has seemed to notice. I can't find anything in the web pages
> or the README.xxx's that'll tell me, but that could well be me being
> blind.. could someone point me in the right direction?
> 
> ~chris
> -- 
> Chris Naden - chris at gwydion dot net
> 
> " Sometimes, home is just where you pour your coffee... "
>              - Bruno Baldwin
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users maillist  -  Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users

                               [ bug at aphid.net ]



From dgc at uchicago.edu  Tue Oct  3 17:09:44 2000
From: dgc at uchicago.edu (David Champion)
Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 10:09:44 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: Deleting Lists
In-Reply-To: <20001003155318.D28832@gwydion.net>; from chris@gwydion.net on Tue, Oct 03, 2000 at 03:53:18PM +0100
References: <20001003155318.D28832@gwydion.net>
Message-ID: <20001003100944.E18564@smack.uchicago.edu>

On 2000.10.03, in <20001003155318.D28832 at gwydion.net>,
	"Silk" <chris at gwydion.net> wrote:
> ... How? I've asked the question a couple of times now and no-one
> has seemed to notice. I can't find anything in the web pages
> or the README.xxx's that'll tell me, but that could well be me being
> blind.. could someone point me in the right direction?

rmlist is how you delete a list.  That's the only way.

-- 
 -D.	dgc at uchicago.edu	NSIT	University of Chicago



From chris at gwydion.net  Tue Oct  3 17:03:19 2000
From: chris at gwydion.net (Silk)
Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 16:03:19 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Deleting Lists
In-Reply-To: <EMEBLMAFMOLPEIMGPGEBIELOCDAA.lacayo@exlibris-usa.com>; from lacayo@exlibris-usa.com on Tue, Oct 03, 2000 at 10:09:03AM -0500
References: <20001003155318.D28832@gwydion.net> <EMEBLMAFMOLPEIMGPGEBIELOCDAA.lacayo@exlibris-usa.com>
Message-ID: <20001003160319.E28832@gwydion.net>


> Look in the bin directory there is rmlist command.

*thank you* this is just the pointer I needed.

thanks alot,

~cHris

-- 
Chris Naden - chris at gwydion dot net

" Sometimes, home is just where you pour your coffee... "
             - Bruno Baldwin
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From hedemark at bops.com  Tue Oct  3 17:22:34 2000
From: hedemark at bops.com (Chris Hedemark)
Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 11:22:34 -0400 
Subject: [Mailman-Users] help... RH 7.0 broke mailman
Message-ID: <3D71CCC526F1D311A72600902773EC21209C6F@cascabella.rtp.bops.com>

Red Hat 7.0 in and of itself seems to be full of problems.   Our local LUG
is having fits over it, and since we're in RTP North Carolina we have a
bunch of Red Hat employees in there too.  Plus there was the recent Slashdot
story.

That said, 6.2 still works great.


-----Original Message-----
From: Kirk R. Wythers [mailto:kwythers at forestry.umn.edu]
Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2000 11:02 AM
To: dulug at acpub.duke.edu; mailman
Subject: [Mailman-Users] help... RH 7.0 broke mailman


Does anyone have mailman and RH 7.0 working? In a fit of tech madness I
upgraded my office box to 7.0. After which I tried to administer one of
the lists I have running under mailman I get the, "Not Found...
requested url was not found on this server" message. Any ideas? 

I've ready fixed a pop3 problem (seems the folks at red hat made some
changes in the /etc dir and added a xinetd.d file that needed
attention). I'm figuring that this is something similar. Apache checks
out so that's not the problem. 

Thanks,

Kirk

-- 
Kirk R. Wythers					 University of Minnesota
Email: kwythers at forestry.umn.edu       		 Department of Forest
Resources 
Tel: 612.625.22611530                 		 Cleveland Ave. N. 
Fax: 612 625.5212                                Saint Paul,  MN 55108

------------------------------------------------------
Mailman-Users maillist  -  Mailman-Users at python.org
http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users



From rpinkett at media.mit.edu  Tue Oct  3 17:29:50 2000
From: rpinkett at media.mit.edu (Randal D. Pinkett)
Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 11:29:50 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Adding a List
Message-ID: <2.2.32.20001003152950.0407b638@ml.media.mit.edu>

Has anyone written a script to automate the process of adding a list (e.g.,
append to /etc/aliases then "newaliases" as root)?




From bleto at stargate.net  Tue Oct  3 20:24:25 2000
From: bleto at stargate.net (Bennie Leto)
Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 11:24:25 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] No passwords
References: <39D9F4DC.A14818E8@forestry.umn.edu> <20001004020401.I17680@aphid.net>
Message-ID: <01a901c02d67$28da2400$1445d2ce@spleenix>

Is there a way to set mailman to not use passwords?

-Ben




From kwythers at forestry.umn.edu  Tue Oct  3 17:47:56 2000
From: kwythers at forestry.umn.edu (Kirk R. Wythers)
Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 10:47:56 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] help... RH 7.0 broke mailman
References: <EMEBLMAFMOLPEIMGPGEBAELOCDAA.lacayo@exlibris-usa.com>
Message-ID: <39D9FFAC.86EC448F@forestry.umn.edu>

Sorry for the inane question, but... which log output would be most
helpful?

Thanks,

Kirk



>Hi Kirk,

>Some log output would be helpful.

>Chuck


-- 
Kirk R. Wythers					 University of Minnesota
Email: kwythers at forestry.umn.edu       		 Department of Forest Resources 
Tel: 612.625.22611530                 		 Cleveland Ave. N. 
Fax: 612 625.5212                                Saint Paul,  MN 55108



From morris at unc.edu  Tue Oct  3 17:42:02 2000
From: morris at unc.edu (Joe Morris)
Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 11:42:02 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] help... RH 7.0 broke mailman
In-Reply-To: <39D9F4DC.A14818E8@forestry.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0010031136440.1981-100000@pasta.oit.unc.edu>

On Tue, 3 Oct 2000, Kirk R. Wythers wrote:

| Does anyone have mailman and RH 7.0 working? In a fit of tech madness I
| upgraded my office box to 7.0. After which I tried to administer one of
| the lists I have running under mailman I get the, "Not Found...
| requested url was not found on this server" message. Any ideas?

I just got it working last night (RH70 and MM2.0B6).  Man, what a struggle
that was.  RH moved some things around which broke my sendmail config and
stuff.  Lack of db.h (now in the db3-devel rpm) and some changes to smrsh
tripped me up.  But all is well now.

I think in your case your httpd config might have been overwritten.  Check
you logs--/var/log/httpd/error_log.

| I've ready fixed a pop3 problem (seems the folks at red hat made some
| changes in the /etc dir and added a xinetd.d file that needed
| attention). I'm figuring that this is something similar. Apache checks
| out so that's not the problem. 

Yes, that whole xinetd things caught me off guard, but it works.

_______________________________________________________
Joe Morris                http://www.ibiblio.org/morris
Web Systems Manager, ATN            http://help.unc.edu
UNC-Chapel Hill                      http://www.unc.edu




From Nigel.Metheringham at VData.co.uk  Tue Oct  3 17:50:38 2000
From: Nigel.Metheringham at VData.co.uk (Nigel Metheringham)
Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 16:50:38 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Adding a List 
In-Reply-To: Message from "Randal D. Pinkett" <rpinkett@media.mit.edu> 
   of "Tue, 03 Oct 2000 11:29:50 EDT." <2.2.32.20001003152950.0407b638@ml.media.mit.edu> 
Message-ID: <E13gUL0-00048m-00@rioja.localnet>

rpinkett at media.mit.edu said:
> Has anyone written a script to automate the process of adding a list
> (e.g., append to /etc/aliases then "newaliases" as root)? 

Please remember that this is distribution and MTA specific.
Personally I don't want anyone touching /etc/aliases on my system - it 
doesn't exist, lists aren't done as aliases and the newaliases program 
is nowhere to be found on my system.

	Nigel.

Writing on behalf on the anti-sendmail league :-)
-- 
[ - Opinions expressed are personal and may not be shared by VData - ]
[ Nigel Metheringham                  Nigel.Metheringham at VData.co.uk ]
[ Phone: +44 1423 850000                         Fax +44 1423 858866 ]





From cdh at CompleteIS.com  Tue Oct  3 17:55:39 2000
From: cdh at CompleteIS.com (Chris D.Halverson)
Date: 03 Oct 2000 10:55:39 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Adding a List
In-Reply-To: "Randal D. Pinkett"'s message of "Tue, 03 Oct 2000 11:29:50 -0400"
References: <2.2.32.20001003152950.0407b638@ml.media.mit.edu>
Message-ID: <wpaeclhqbo.fsf@CompleteIS.com>

"Randal D. Pinkett" <rpinkett at media.mit.edu> writes:

> Has anyone written a script to automate the process of adding a list (e.g.,
> append to /etc/aliases then "newaliases" as root)?

I think somebody wrote something for sendmail, but I don't remember
for sure.

The problem is that it's not that simple. For example, what MTA are
_you_ running? Is it the same as mine? Do all MTA's have the same
format?  What about virtual hosting?

Yikes!

In other words, you may be able to do something that wraps newlist and
grabs it's output and doesn't what you need it to do, but it cannot be
generic enough to handle things like Sendmail vs. Postfix vs. Qmail
vs. Exim vs....

cdh

-- 
Chris D. Halverson                         Complete Internet Solutions
PGP mail accepted, finger for public key   http://www.CompleteIS.com/~cdh/



From jam at jamux.com  Tue Oct  3 18:16:36 2000
From: jam at jamux.com (John A. Martin)
Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 12:16:36 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Monthly reminders harmful
Message-ID: <20001003161636.AD8F44800A@athene.jamux.com>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

I am being told that monthly reminders will drive mailing list
subscribers away.

Is there hard evidence or well informed opinion on this?

Does it depend upon the nature of the mailing list or other factors?

TIA

	jam

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Version: GnuPG v1.0.3 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: OpenPGP encrypted mail preferred.  See <http://www.gnupg.org/>

iEYEARECAAYFAjnaBk4ACgkQUEvv1b/iXy+JwgCeLUlP2VdCitKwdqV39Lkq5XDZ
oI4An23mPZigioytjGjtr6V8VTBkUjEm
=avhQ
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From dgc at uchicago.edu  Tue Oct  3 18:27:49 2000
From: dgc at uchicago.edu (David Champion)
Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 11:27:49 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: Adding a List
In-Reply-To: <wpaeclhqbo.fsf@CompleteIS.com>; from cdh@CompleteIS.com on Tue, Oct 03, 2000 at 10:55:39AM -0500
References: <2.2.32.20001003152950.0407b638@ml.media.mit.edu> <wpaeclhqbo.fsf@CompleteIS.com>
Message-ID: <20001003112749.J18564@smack.uchicago.edu>

On 2000.10.03, in <wpaeclhqbo.fsf at CompleteIS.com>,
	"Chris D.Halverson" <cdh at CompleteIS.com> wrote:
> "Randal D. Pinkett" <rpinkett at media.mit.edu> writes:
> 
> > Has anyone written a script to automate the process of adding a list (e.g.,
> > append to /etc/aliases then "newaliases" as root)?
> 
> I think somebody wrote something for sendmail, but I don't remember
> for sure.


I was inspired by Nigel's Exim thing, and I wrote this mailer for
sendmail.  I haven't documented it yet, but when I do I'll submit it to
SF for contrib/.  What I describe here obviates ANY changes to
/etc/aliases when running with sendmail.  If you use this stuff,
comment out any list aliases in /etc/aliases (and rerun newaliases).


The first file here is the .mc file I use for generation of sendmail.cf
on my list server.  It configures a mailer for Mailman.  The mailer
program is in perl, and it's the second attachment.

These are glued together by my mailertable:
    listtest.uchicago.edu   mailman:listtest.uchicago.edu
    listhost.uchicago.edu   mailman:listhost.uchicago.edu

This virtusertable ensures that RFC 2142 addresses are not processed as
lists:
    MAILER-DAEMON at listtest.uchicago.edu mailman-owner at midway.uchicago.edu
    mailman at listtest.uchicago.edu       mailman-owner at midway.uchicago.edu
    mailman-owner at listtest.uchicago.edu mailman-owner at midway.uchicago.edu
    postmaster at listtest.uchicago.edu    mailman-owner at midway.uchicago.edu
    webmaster at listtest.uchicago.edu     mailman-owner at midway.uchicago.edu
    abuse at listtest.uchicago.edu         sun-admin at midway.uchicago.edu
    root at listtest.uchicago.edu          sun-admin at midway.uchicago.edu

Obviously, anyone else should change the RHS and the domains on these.
I'm trying to work out a pleasant way to build this into the mailer, so
that the virtusertable won't be necessary.  No good ideas yet.  (The
catch is that I don't want any fixed addresses in the script.)

The .mc file here will require some changes for any environment but
mine, but they're obvious changes, I think.

If you want to use this, but need significant help, you're welcome to
let me know.  I probably won't take the time to answer yet, but I'll
try to treat any questions when I write the documentation.

I'm still unsure about including the gratituitously pedantic MIME
parts. :)

-- 
 -D.	dgc at uchicago.edu	NSIT	University of Chicago



From jw at w3.ca  Tue Oct  3 18:32:19 2000
From: jw at w3.ca (Jeff Warnica)
Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 13:32:19 -0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Monthly reminders harmful
In-Reply-To: <20001003161636.AD8F44800A@athene.jamux.com>
Message-ID: <IIEBLDMEINDOBBODINPNKEPGCAAA.jw@w3.ca>

It would seem to me that this would drive away members who are not that
interested in the list..

If you have a low volume list (say a anouncement list only) then one message
a month reminding you of you password could be 50% of the traffic, and
therefore be anoying.

If you have a high volume list, then it would be insignificant, unless you
dont read the list:

Im subsctribed to ~3 lists related to WEBDAV, and they were all filtered
down into there own folders (yes, yes, while I am a *nix admin, I use w2k on
the desktop and outlook), my filter catches everything except the monthly
reminders I get from one of the lists.

Since 99/100 days I just delete the WEBDAV related messages easily (select
all, [del]) I haven become sufficently annoyed to bother to unsubscribe. But
then there is the monthly reminder that stays in my inbox.

But then, I have lots of drive space and a DSL line at home and receive in
the order of 100 messages a day beteween home, work, and volunteer admin at
a Community Net.


>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> I am being told that monthly reminders will drive mailing list
> subscribers away.
>
> Is there hard evidence or well informed opinion on this?
>
> Does it depend upon the nature of the mailing list or other factors?
>
> TIA




From jbleasdale at rm.com  Tue Oct  3 18:40:10 2000
From: jbleasdale at rm.com (JOHN BLEASDALE)
Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 17:40:10 +0100 
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: Adding a List
Message-ID: <41F16105E0DAD211AE8A0008C7A4F127088C9892@rmexchange.internal.rmplc.net>

Randal,

> Has anyone written a script to automate the process of adding a list
(e.g.,
> append to /etc/aliases then "newaliases" as root)?

Here's a script I posted in June when the question was last asked. We use
this setup running MailMan 2.0b2, Sendmail 8.9.3 and RedHat 6.2.


I use a wrapper script for newlist that does the creation and aliases file
work non-interactively. You can then call this wrapper from a CGI script or
any automated process that you like.

To do this, alter the newlist script so that the alias template just returns
the exact lines you would like to be entered into your aliases file (I just
take the 4 aliases, with no comments or date) and remove the request to hit
enter:


48,53c48
< ALIASTEMPLATE = '''
< Entry for aliases file:
< 
< ## %(listname)s mailing list
< ## created: %(date)s %(user)s
< %(list)s "|%(wrapper)s post %(listname)s"
---
> ALIASTEMPLATE = '''%(list)s "|%(wrapper)s post %(listname)s"
126,127d119
<             'date'    : time.strftime('%d-%b-%Y',
time.localtime(time.time())),
<             'user'    : getusername(),
130,133d121
<         if len(argv) < 5:
<             print ("Hit enter to continue with %s owner notification..."
<                    % listname),
<             sys.stdin.readline()


I then use this shell script to add lists:


#!/bin/bash
# Wrapper for Mailman's default newlist python script.
# Pipes output from modified version of newlist straight into aliases file.
# Any mistakes will end up in aliases file so be careful!

if [ "$3" = "" ]
then
    echo -e "\n\tUsage: $0 listname admin-email-address password\n"
    exit 1
fi

# Does the list exist?
result=`/usr/local/mailman/bin/list_lists $1 | grep -iw $1 | wc -w`

# If not, add it
if [ $result -eq 0 ]
then
    /usr/local/mailman/bin/newlist $1 $2 $3 >> /etc/aliases
    newaliases
fi


This requires that the /etc/aliases file be owned by mailman, so you may
want to review any security implications.

Cheers,
John


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From dgc at uchicago.edu  Tue Oct  3 18:47:42 2000
From: dgc at uchicago.edu (David Champion)
Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 11:47:42 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: Adding a List
In-Reply-To: <20001003112749.J18564@smack.uchicago.edu>; from dgc@uchicago.edu on Tue, Oct 03, 2000 at 11:27:49AM -0500
References: <2.2.32.20001003152950.0407b638@ml.media.mit.edu> <wpaeclhqbo.fsf@CompleteIS.com> <20001003112749.J18564@smack.uchicago.edu>
Message-ID: <20001003114742.A5540@smack.uchicago.edu>

On 2000.10.03, in <20001003112749.J18564 at smack.uchicago.edu>,
	"David Champion" <dgc at uchicago.edu> wrote:
> 
> The first file here is the .mc file I use for generation of sendmail.cf
> on my list server.  It configures a mailer for Mailman.  The mailer
> program is in perl, and it's the second attachment.

Argh.  I always forget to attach the file.  OK, to save bandwidth,
they're here:

	http://home.uchicago.edu/~dgc/mailman/listserver.mc
	http://home.uchicago.edu/~dgc/mailman/mm-handler

-- 
 -D.	dgc at uchicago.edu	NSIT	University of Chicago



From chuqui at plaidworks.com  Tue Oct  3 19:18:06 2000
From: chuqui at plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach)
Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 10:18:06 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] No passwords
In-Reply-To: <01a901c02d67$28da2400$1445d2ce@spleenix>
References: <39D9F4DC.A14818E8@forestry.umn.edu>
 <20001004020401.I17680@aphid.net>
 <01a901c02d67$28da2400$1445d2ce@spleenix>
Message-ID: <p04330103b5ffc53e92d0@[17.216.27.250]>

At 11:24 AM -0700 10/3/00, Bennie Leto wrote:
>Is there a way to set mailman to not use passwords?

Read the archives. it's been talked about multiple times. (short 
answer: not yet).

-- 
Chuq Von Rospach - Plaidworks Consulting (mailto:chuqui at plaidworks.com)
Apple Mail List Gnome (mailto:chuq at apple.com)

You seem a decent fellow. I hate to die.



From chuqui at plaidworks.com  Tue Oct  3 19:17:28 2000
From: chuqui at plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach)
Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 10:17:28 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Monthly reminders harmful
In-Reply-To: <20001003161636.AD8F44800A@athene.jamux.com>
References: <20001003161636.AD8F44800A@athene.jamux.com>
Message-ID: <p04330102b5ffc4ab703c@[17.216.27.250]>

At 12:16 PM -0400 10/3/00, John A. Martin wrote:

>I am being told that monthly reminders will drive mailing list
>subscribers away.
>
>Is there hard evidence or well informed opinion on this?
>
>Does it depend upon the nature of the mailing list or other factors?

Yes, it depends on the list and its audience, but...

No, I don't know of any real hard evidence (I'd really love to study 
this stuff some decade and GET hard evidence), but in my experience 
running lists, the only people "driven away" aren't really interested 
in being there anyway, and the numbers are pretty tiny.

Unless you really care about keeping around folks who don't care if 
they're there or not, I wouldn't worry about it. All the monthyl 
reminder really does in this case, unless it's really, really 
obnoxious in some way, is act as a "gee, I meant to unsubscribe that 
list..." reminder.

-- 
Chuq Von Rospach - Plaidworks Consulting (mailto:chuqui at plaidworks.com)
Apple Mail List Gnome (mailto:chuq at apple.com)

You seem a decent fellow. I hate to die.



From vtsaran at nimbus.ocis.temple.edu  Tue Oct  3 19:53:03 2000
From: vtsaran at nimbus.ocis.temple.edu (Victor Tsaran)
Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 13:53:03 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can users create mailing lists on their own?
Message-ID: <005d01c02d62$c7435ee0$beeef79b@default>

Hello,
I could never figure out whether there is a possibility to allow users to
create their own mailing lists without having to contact admin all the time?
Best,
Victor





From sallen at infomanage.net  Tue Oct  3 19:48:37 2000
From: sallen at infomanage.net (Scott D. Allen)
Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 13:48:37 -0400 
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can users create mailing lists on their own?
Message-ID: <5A09E0C7076AD411AF4400D0B774D1C8017FDB@drabek.wp.infomng.com>

not from the web interface. if you gave them access to the mailman uid, or
setup a script of your own, you could have them run the newlist command
under an effective uid or similar.

--scott

>-----Original Message-----
>From: Victor Tsaran [mailto:vtsaran at nimbus.ocis.temple.edu]
>Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2000 1:53 PM
>To: mailman-users at python.org
>Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can users create mailing lists on their own?
>
>
>Hello,
>I could never figure out whether there is a possibility to 
>allow users to
>create their own mailing lists without having to contact admin 
>all the time?
>Best,
>Victor
>
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------
>Mailman-Users maillist  -  Mailman-Users at python.org
>http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
>



From chuqui at plaidworks.com  Tue Oct  3 20:08:02 2000
From: chuqui at plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach)
Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 11:08:02 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can users create mailing lists on their
 own?
In-Reply-To: 
 <5A09E0C7076AD411AF4400D0B774D1C8017FDB@drabek.wp.infomng.com>
References: 
 <5A09E0C7076AD411AF4400D0B774D1C8017FDB@drabek.wp.infomng.com>
Message-ID: <p0433010bb5ffd0c348fc@[17.216.27.250]>

At 1:48 PM -0400 10/3/00, Scott D. Allen wrote:
>not from the web interface. if you gave them access to the mailman uid, or
>setup a script of your own, you could have them run the newlist command
>under an effective uid or similar.

but that still doesn't set up the mail aliases or wire the list into 
the system. IMHO, I *want* an admin in the loop for list creation, 
since you have to tweak things that can really break the system if 
you don't know what you're doing.

Imagine automating all of that, and having a user create the lists 
root and postmaster....

-- 
Chuq Von Rospach - Plaidworks Consulting (mailto:chuqui at plaidworks.com)
Apple Mail List Gnome (mailto:chuq at apple.com)

You seem a decent fellow. I hate to die.



From sallen at infomanage.net  Tue Oct  3 20:12:42 2000
From: sallen at infomanage.net (Scott D. Allen)
Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 14:12:42 -0400 
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can users create mailing lists on their own?
Message-ID: <5A09E0C7076AD411AF4400D0B774D1C8017FE2@drabek.wp.infomng.com>

agreed. i'm just answering the question about users creating their own
lists. i would also like that type of checks-and-balances, but some people
just want to setup something in a dev environment.

>-----Original Message-----
>From: Chuq Von Rospach [mailto:chuqui at plaidworks.com]
>Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2000 2:08 PM
>To: Scott D. Allen; 'Victor Tsaran'; 'mailman-users at python.org'
>Subject: RE: [Mailman-Users] Can users create mailing lists on their
>own?
>
>
>At 1:48 PM -0400 10/3/00, Scott D. Allen wrote:
>>not from the web interface. if you gave them access to the 
>mailman uid, or
>>setup a script of your own, you could have them run the 
>newlist command
>>under an effective uid or similar.
>
>but that still doesn't set up the mail aliases or wire the list into 
>the system. IMHO, I *want* an admin in the loop for list creation, 
>since you have to tweak things that can really break the system if 
>you don't know what you're doing.
>
>Imagine automating all of that, and having a user create the lists 
>root and postmaster....
>
>-- 
>Chuq Von Rospach - Plaidworks Consulting (mailto:chuqui at plaidworks.com)
>Apple Mail List Gnome (mailto:chuq at apple.com)
>
>You seem a decent fellow. I hate to die.
>
>------------------------------------------------------
>Mailman-Users maillist  -  Mailman-Users at python.org
>http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
>



From claw at kanga.nu  Tue Oct  3 20:38:29 2000
From: claw at kanga.nu (J C Lawrence)
Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 11:38:29 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Monthly reminders harmful 
In-Reply-To: Message from "John A. Martin" <jam@jamux.com> 
   of "Tue, 03 Oct 2000 12:16:36 EDT." <20001003161636.AD8F44800A@athene.jamux.com> 
References: <20001003161636.AD8F44800A@athene.jamux.com> 
Message-ID: <32731.970598309@kanga.nu>

On Tue, 03 Oct 2000 12:16:36 -0400 
John A Martin <jam at jamux.com> wrote:

> I am being told that monthly reminders will drive mailing list
> subscribers away.

> Is there hard evidence or well informed opinion on this?

> Does it depend upon the nature of the mailing list or other
> factors?

While I seem to have rather unusual list members (previousl list
traffic has discussed this oddity), I haven't had a single member
either complain of or state they left because of the list passwords.
I have had several "I forgot my password and would you mind..."
messages, but every one has responded well to just being pinted back
at the list web pages with a couple extra instructions.

Now brace yourself, Chuq and Co are likely to weigh in in force at
this point.

-- 
J C Lawrence                                 Home: claw at kanga.nu
---------(*)                               Other: coder at kanga.nu
http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/        Keys etc: finger claw at kanga.nu
--=| A man is as sane as he is dangerous to his environment |=--



From chuqui at plaidworks.com  Tue Oct  3 20:31:56 2000
From: chuqui at plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach)
Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 11:31:56 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can users create mailing lists on their
 own?
In-Reply-To: 
 <Pine.BSI.4.21.0010031128120.24209-100000@castro.queernet.org>
References: 
 <Pine.BSI.4.21.0010031128120.24209-100000@castro.queernet.org>
Message-ID: <p0433010db5ffd66d9e7a@[17.216.27.250]>

At 11:28 AM -0700 10/3/00, Roger B.A. Klorese wrote:
>On Tue, 3 Oct 2000, Chuq Von Rospach wrote:
>>  Imagine automating all of that, and having a user create the lists
>>  root and postmaster....
>
>Imagine working software, Chuq.  :)

I'm imagining it. I'm imagining how much work it'd take to do for all 
of the MTAs out there. I'm imagining putting that time into more 
important priorities, like making passwords optional. I'm 
imagining....
-- 
Chuq Von Rospach - Plaidworks Consulting (mailto:chuqui at plaidworks.com)
Apple Mail List Gnome (mailto:chuq at apple.com)

You seem a decent fellow. I hate to die.



From rogerk at QueerNet.ORG  Tue Oct  3 20:28:31 2000
From: rogerk at QueerNet.ORG (Roger B.A. Klorese)
Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 11:28:31 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can users create mailing lists on their own?
In-Reply-To: <p0433010bb5ffd0c348fc@[17.216.27.250]>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSI.4.21.0010031128120.24209-100000@castro.queernet.org>

On Tue, 3 Oct 2000, Chuq Von Rospach wrote:
> Imagine automating all of that, and having a user create the lists 
> root and postmaster....

Imagine working software, Chuq.  :)

-- 
ROGER B.A. KLORESE                                          rogerk at QueerNet.ORG
PO Box 14309		                                San Francisco, CA 94114
"There is only one real blasphemy -- the refusal of joy!"       -- Paul Rudnick




From rogerk at QueerNet.ORG  Tue Oct  3 20:46:02 2000
From: rogerk at QueerNet.ORG (Roger B.A. Klorese)
Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 11:46:02 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can users create mailing lists on their own?
In-Reply-To: <p0433010db5ffd66d9e7a@[17.216.27.250]>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSI.4.21.0010031145001.24371-100000@castro.queernet.org>

On Tue, 3 Oct 2000, Chuq Von Rospach wrote:
> I'm imagining it. I'm imagining how much work it'd take to do for all 
> of the MTAs out there. I'm imagining putting that time into more 
> important priorities, like making passwords optional. I'm 
> imagining....

Different needs, different feeds.

Those of us in the maintain-a-beachhead-against-eGroups business have
users who "get" passwords -- at least for the web interface -- but don't
want to wait for a new list.

-- 
ROGER B.A. KLORESE                                          rogerk at QueerNet.ORG
PO Box 14309		                                San Francisco, CA 94114
"There is only one real blasphemy -- the refusal of joy!"       -- Paul Rudnick




From chuqui at plaidworks.com  Tue Oct  3 20:50:47 2000
From: chuqui at plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach)
Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 11:50:47 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can users create mailing lists on their
 own?
In-Reply-To: 
 <Pine.BSI.4.21.0010031145001.24371-100000@castro.queernet.org>
References: 
 <Pine.BSI.4.21.0010031145001.24371-100000@castro.queernet.org>
Message-ID: <p04330110b5ffdac7a456@[17.216.27.250]>

At 11:46 AM -0700 10/3/00, Roger B.A. Klorese wrote:
>Those of us in the maintain-a-beachhead-against-eGroups business have
>users who "get" passwords -- at least for the web interface -- but don't
>want to wait for a new list.

True. For me, personally, the highest priority is probably the 
look/feel issues with vhosting support, anyway. As soon as I get the 
site into production (this week, it's gonna happen this week. please 
god, let it happen this week!)

-- 
Chuq Von Rospach - Plaidworks Consulting (mailto:chuqui at plaidworks.com)
Apple Mail List Gnome (mailto:chuq at apple.com)

You seem a decent fellow. I hate to die.



From Dan.Mick at west.sun.com  Tue Oct  3 21:15:49 2000
From: Dan.Mick at west.sun.com (Dan Mick)
Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 12:15:49 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Monthly reminders harmful
References: <20001003161636.AD8F44800A@athene.jamux.com> <32731.970598309@kanga.nu>
Message-ID: <39DA3065.89D8DE78@west.sun.com>


J C Lawrence wrote:

> While I seem to have rather unusual list members (previousl list
> traffic has discussed this oddity), I haven't had a single member
> either complain of or state they left because of the list passwords.
> I have had several "I forgot my password and would you mind..."
> messages, but every one has responded well to just being pinted back
> at the list web pages with a couple extra instructions.

Yeah, me too, but I don't know how to run lists; just ask Chuq.



From harrison at timharrison.com  Tue Oct  3 21:22:00 2000
From: harrison at timharrison.com (Tim Harrison)
Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 15:22:00 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Postfix, virtual domains, and mailman
Message-ID: <39DA31D8.FB321F6A@timharrison.com>

Good afternoon.

I recently set up mailman-2.0b6 on an OpenBSD box, running Postfix
19991231-pl08.  The list that mailman is to manage is hosted on a
virtual domain.  After messing around with the /etc/postfix/virtual
file, and getting somewhere, I noticed two things:

1.  Mailman refuses to accept that I want the potential subscriber to
respond to listname-request at domain.tld, and not
listname-request at host.domain.tld.  I grepped the heck out of everything
I could find that referred to host.domain.tld in mailman's home
directory, and below, and found only the reference in mm_cfg.py.  I
edited this, but to no avail.

2.  I followed the INSTALL file religiously when installing, but found
that after I had created the list, and pasted the required entries into
/etc/postfix/virtual, when I tried to subscribe through the web
interface, replied to the confirmation email, the confirm message went
directly to my account. Where should this go?

Pardon the annoying questions.  I'm obviously missing something.  If
someone could point me in the correct direction, that would be
appreciated.


-- 


Tim Harrison
Network Engineer
harrison at timharrison.com
http://www.networklevel.com/



From dan at ssc.com  Tue Oct  3 21:37:24 2000
From: dan at ssc.com (Dan Wilder)
Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 12:37:24 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Postfix, virtual domains, and mailman
In-Reply-To: <39DA31D8.FB321F6A@timharrison.com>; from harrison@timharrison.com on Tue, Oct 03, 2000 at 03:22:00PM -0400
References: <39DA31D8.FB321F6A@timharrison.com>
Message-ID: <20001003123724.A3471@ssc.com>

On Tue, Oct 03, 2000 at 03:22:00PM -0400, Tim Harrison wrote:
> 
> Good afternoon.
> 
> I recently set up mailman-2.0b6 on an OpenBSD box, running Postfix
> 19991231-pl08.  The list that mailman is to manage is hosted on a
> virtual domain.  After messing around with the /etc/postfix/virtual
> file, and getting somewhere, I noticed two things:
> 
> 1.  Mailman refuses to accept that I want the potential subscriber to
> respond to listname-request at domain.tld, and not
> listname-request at host.domain.tld.  I grepped the heck out of everything
> I could find that referred to host.domain.tld in mailman's home
> directory, and below, and found only the reference in mm_cfg.py.  I
> edited this, but to no avail.

Is "host" of "host.domain.tld" the host Postfix is running on?

Which header is it that Postfix is mungeing?

In your postfix main.cf, try putting

myorigin = $mydomain

(it defaults to host.domain) and see if the result suits you better.
This is a global change; it will effect rewrites applied to other
mail headers, too.

Especially check mail with unqualified local "To:" and
"From:" in the headers at submit time.  When I'm working with
questions like this, I often keep test cases in a files that look
sort of like like

To: me
From: somebody

testing

(completely empty line between the "From: header and the body), then
use

/usr/sbin/sendmail -t file1
/usr/sbin/sendmail -t file2
...

(or wherever Postfix's "sendmail" lives) in a script to send my
batch of test cases.  Watch the appropriate syslog file with
"tail -f" to see what's happening, in real-time, to the test cases.

[ ... ]

-----------------------------------------------------------------
 Dan Wilder <dan at ssc.com>             Publishers of Linux Journal
 SSC, Inc. P.O. Box 55549             Phone:  206-782-7733 x123
 Seattle, WA  98155-0549              URL     http://www.ssc.com/
-----------------------------------------------------------------



From kwythers at forestry.umn.edu  Tue Oct  3 22:13:58 2000
From: kwythers at forestry.umn.edu (Kirk R. Wythers)
Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 15:13:58 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] getting an rpm
Message-ID: <39DA3E06.EFAA9DDB@forestry.umn.edu>

does anyone know where I can find an rpm for beta6?

thanks,

Kirk


--
Kirk R. Wythers                         University of Minnesota
kwythers at lorax.forestry.umn.edu         Department of Forest Resources
tel: 612.625.2261                       1530 Cleveland Ave. N.
fax: 612.625.5212                       Saint Paul, MN 55108






From GLeblanc at cu-portland.edu  Tue Oct  3 22:48:42 2000
From: GLeblanc at cu-portland.edu (Gregory Leblanc)
Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 13:48:42 -0700 
Subject: [Mailman-Users] getting an rpm
Message-ID: <025836EFF856D411A6660090272811E61D07BF@EMAIL>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Kirk R. Wythers [mailto:kwythers at forestry.umn.edu]
> 
> does anyone know where I can find an rpm for beta6?

Have you tried ftp://rawhide.redhat.com/ ?  If not, try there, and if they
don't have one yet, let me know and I can turn one out in a few hours.
	Greg



From haroldp at sierraweb.com  Wed Oct  4 00:31:30 2000
From: haroldp at sierraweb.com (Harold Paulson)
Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 15:31:30 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Accounting
Message-ID: <v0422080fb6000de60b39@[216.162.173.6]>

Howdy,

Has anyone done any accounting on mailman list traffic?  Emails sent, 
bytes xfered, that sort of thing?  I didn't see any obvious way to 
pull it out of logs/, so I was wondering if someone else had done it 
before I started coding :)

	- H


Harold Paulson                  Sierra Web Design
haroldp at sierraweb.com           http://www.sierraweb.com
VOICE: 775.833.9500             FAX:   810.314.1517



From chuqui at plaidworks.com  Wed Oct  4 00:34:53 2000
From: chuqui at plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach)
Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 15:34:53 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Accounting
In-Reply-To: <v0422080fb6000de60b39@[216.162.173.6]>
References: <v0422080fb6000de60b39@[216.162.173.6]>
Message-ID: <p04330126b6000f6dffed@[17.216.27.250]>

At 3:31 PM -0700 10/3/00, Harold Paulson wrote:
>Howdy,
>
>Has anyone done any accounting on mailman list traffic?  Emails 
>sent, bytes xfered, that sort of thing?  I didn't see any obvious 
>way to pull it out of logs/, so I was wondering if someone else had 
>done it before I started coding :)

None that I know of, but the raw data you need are in 
~mailman/logs/post and ~mailman/logs/smtp, so it shouldn't be too 
hard to get some numbers with reasonable ease.

-- 
Chuq Von Rospach - Plaidworks Consulting (mailto:chuqui at plaidworks.com)
Apple Mail List Gnome (mailto:chuq at apple.com)

You seem a decent fellow. I hate to die.



From doctor at kira.mcc.ac.uk  Wed Oct  4 09:44:42 2000
From: doctor at kira.mcc.ac.uk (Mike Richardson)
Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 08:44:42 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Accounting
In-Reply-To: <p04330126b6000f6dffed@[17.216.27.250]>; from chuqui@plaidworks.com on Tue, Oct 03, 2000 at 03:34:53PM -0700
References: <v0422080fb6000de60b39@[216.162.173.6]> <p04330126b6000f6dffed@[17.216.27.250]>
Message-ID: <20001004084442.K3505@kira.mcc.ac.uk>

On Tue, Oct 03, 2000 at 03:34:53PM -0700, Chuq Von Rospach wrote:
> At 3:31 PM -0700 10/3/00, Harold Paulson wrote:
> >Howdy,
> >
> >Has anyone done any accounting on mailman list traffic?  Emails 
> >sent, bytes xfered, that sort of thing?  I didn't see any obvious 
> >way to pull it out of logs/, so I was wondering if someone else had 
> >done it before I started coding :)
> 
> None that I know of, but the raw data you need are in 
> ~mailman/logs/post and ~mailman/logs/smtp, so it shouldn't be too 
> hard to get some numbers with reasonable ease.

I'm working on a cgi script to extract info from Mailman's logs (and
other custom logging I've added.) At the moment its just for my own
information but I expect the scope will expand as list admin
request more information. If anyone is interested I'll release the
(perl) scripts once they are a little more... refined.

Mike
-- 
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Copyright 2000 Mike Richardson, Rm G98, Manchester Computing
University of Manchester, M13 9PL. doctor at mcc.ac.uk, 0161 275-6009
--------------------------------------------------------------------
"If I want your opinion, I'll beat it out of you!" - Chuck Norris
"If anything happens to my daughter I have a 45 and shovel" Clueless



From hh2 at kkre.ic-marl.de  Wed Oct  4 12:57:03 2000
From: hh2 at kkre.ic-marl.de (hans)
Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 12:57:03 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] problem with directories
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0010041228210.22216-100000@kkre.ic-marl.de>

The configuration of my mailman (ver. 1.1) directs to a wrong
base-directory of all my mailman-lists.
On our site (apache 1.3.11/SuSE/Linux) i configured a directory called: 
"/home/mailman" . 
The httpd.conf has set the ScriptAlias: /mailman/ 
"/home/mailman/cgi-bin/" .

My problem is:
every link shown on the mailmanpages direct to a wrong directory including
a ../home/mailman/cgi-bin/ like this
http://oursite/mailman/edithtml/home/mailman/cgi-bin/listname/xxxx.html

The misconfiguration produces the error, that a list "home" is not found
or "home: No such list".

What irritates me is, that I can get to pages like
http://oursite.mailman/listinfo/anylistname (with all the wrong links
inside) when I put in the urls per hand.

What went wrong?
Thanks in advance.
hans

			





From vincent.denis at rightvision.com  Wed Oct  4 14:02:37 2000
From: vincent.denis at rightvision.com (Vincent DENIS)
Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 14:02:37 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] list server administrator documentation
Message-ID: <NDBBIGEGALFKOEOJAILFGEMACIAA.vincent.denis@rightvision.com>


Hello,


Does anybody know where i can found any documentation about liste server
administration ?

Vincent

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From kevin at maxson.com  Wed Oct  4 18:37:58 2000
From: kevin at maxson.com (Kevin of Thornbury)
Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2000 12:37:58 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] qrunner locks?
Message-ID: <39DB5CE5.CD919FD0@maxson.com>

Oct 04 13:18:02 2000 (26586) qrunner begining
Oct 04 13:18:03 2000 (26586) Could not acquire qrunner lock
Oct 04 13:18:03 2000 (26586) qrunner ended

Is this good or bad?  What does it mean, and how does one fix it?

I'm still having a greeat deal of troubles with mailman, but I'm going
to wait until 2.0 final and then reinstall the whole thing I think.

Thanks for the replies. 
_____
|_|_|  Kevin Maxson     (Lord Kevin of Thornbury)
| | |  Electronic Publications Manager, SCA, Inc.
 \|/   kevin at maxson.com       http://www.sca.org



From hedemark at bops.com  Wed Oct  4 18:47:07 2000
From: hedemark at bops.com (Chris Hedemark)
Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 12:47:07 -0400 
Subject: [Mailman-Users] qrunner locks?
Message-ID: <3D71CCC526F1D311A72600902773EC21209CAD@cascabella.rtp.bops.com>

You are not alone.  I have Mailman 2.0beta6 on Red Hat 6.2.  Check this out:


bash$ ls -l
total 17804
-rw-rw-r--    1 mailman  mailman      2091 Oct  4 12:00 digest
-rw-rw-r--    1 mailman  mailman     35085 Sep 29 09:41 error
-rw-rw-r--    1 mailman  mailman   1629235 Oct  4 12:23 post
-rw-rw-r--    1 mailman  mailman     14999 Oct  4 12:23 qrunner
-rw-rw-r--    1 mailman  mailman   3732179 Oct  4 12:23 smtp
-rw-rw-r--    1 mailman  mailman  12770297 Sep 27 10:33 smtp-failure
-rw-rw-r--    1 nobody   mailman       217 Oct  2 12:30 subscribe
-rw-rw-r--    1 mailman  mailman       873 Sep 29 11:24 vette
bash$ tail qrunner
Sep 29 14:19:02 2000 (1892) Could not acquire qrunner lock
Oct 02 10:32:01 2000 (20482) Could not acquire qrunner lock
Oct 02 10:33:03 2000 (20490) Could not acquire qrunner lock
Oct 02 16:40:02 2000 (21858) Could not acquire qrunner lock
Oct 03 23:12:02 2000 (28769) Could not acquire qrunner lock
Oct 04 00:06:02 2000 (28984) Could not acquire qrunner lock
Oct 04 06:50:02 2000 (30620) Could not acquire qrunner lock
Oct 04 06:53:01 2000 (30649) Could not acquire qrunner lock
Oct 04 07:08:01 2000 (30723) Could not acquire qrunner lock
Oct 04 12:23:01 2000 (31889) Could not acquire qrunner lock
bash$ cd ../locks/
bash$ ls -la
total 8
drwxrwsr-x    2 mailman  mailman      4096 Oct  4 12:46 .
drwxrwsr-x   20 mailman  mailman      4096 Sep 27 10:34 ..
bash$



-----Original Message-----
From: Kevin of Thornbury [mailto:kevin at maxson.com]
Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2000 12:38 PM
To: mailman-users at python.org
Subject: [Mailman-Users] qrunner locks?


Oct 04 13:18:02 2000 (26586) qrunner begining
Oct 04 13:18:03 2000 (26586) Could not acquire qrunner lock
Oct 04 13:18:03 2000 (26586) qrunner ended

Is this good or bad?  What does it mean, and how does one fix it?

I'm still having a greeat deal of troubles with mailman, but I'm going
to wait until 2.0 final and then reinstall the whole thing I think.

Thanks for the replies. 
_____
|_|_|  Kevin Maxson     (Lord Kevin of Thornbury)
| | |  Electronic Publications Manager, SCA, Inc.
 \|/   kevin at maxson.com       http://www.sca.org

------------------------------------------------------
Mailman-Users maillist  -  Mailman-Users at python.org
http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users



From chuqui at plaidworks.com  Wed Oct  4 19:09:03 2000
From: chuqui at plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach)
Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 10:09:03 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] qrunner locks?
In-Reply-To: 
 <3D71CCC526F1D311A72600902773EC21209CAD@cascabella.rtp.bops.com>
References: 
 <3D71CCC526F1D311A72600902773EC21209CAD@cascabella.rtp.bops.com>
Message-ID: <p04330102b6011447bbe7@[17.216.27.250]>

At 12:47 PM -0400 10/4/00, Chris Hedemark wrote:
>You are not alone.  I have Mailman 2.0beta6 on Red Hat 6.2.  Check this out:

The answer is:

it depends. If qrunner is already running when cron spawns qrunner, 
the new one can't get the lock and exits. that's a feature.

If qrunner isn't running and it can't get a lock, that's a problem, 
usually permission, sometimes a leftover lock.

So you need to go into the system and see what it's doing at the 
time. If you see the log entry hit, try "ps -ef | grep mailman" and 
see what's going on with mailman. And check your ~mailman/locks 
directory for leftover lock files and the like.

And make sure check_perms runs clean.

-- 
Chuq Von Rospach - Plaidworks Consulting (mailto:chuqui at plaidworks.com)
Apple Mail List Gnome (mailto:chuq at apple.com)

You seem a decent fellow. I hate to die.



From rick at niof.net  Wed Oct  4 22:50:44 2000
From: rick at niof.net (Rick Pasotto)
Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 16:50:44 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] can't modify list
Message-ID: <20001004165044.A6472@tc.niof.net>

OK, I'm totally confused.  This is with mailman 1.1.

I have setup two lists. One of them I can modify using the admin
web pages and the other I can't. Both let me in.  Both re-ask for
the password after submiting changes. In only one of them do the
changes take effect. check_perms reports all ok on both.

I'm working with what debian installs. Apache has both user and group
set to www-data. The mailman list files started as root.list. I've
changed config.db to www-data.list on both.

What am I failing to understand? What could I have setup differently
that I'm overlooking?

-- 
"Government should be concerned with anti-social conduct,
not with utterances."
		-- Justice William Orville Douglas
		   Rick Pasotto email: rickp at telocity.com



From ashley at pcraft.com  Thu Oct  5 02:34:18 2000
From: ashley at pcraft.com (Ashley M. Kirchner)
Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2000 18:34:18 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archives
Message-ID: <39DBCC8A.1FE038F7@pcraft.com>

    When turning a list's Archival option to No (off), can I just remove
~/archives/private/<list> and <list.mbox> from the drive?  Also, will
the text 'To see the collection of prior postings to the list, visit the
<list> Archives.' go away from the listinfo page?

    The reason I ask is because I just shut off the Archival of one of
my lists, and while I can understand the data not being deleted from
disk, I don't know why it's still on the listinfo page.  According to
the time stamp on the files in the archives directory, archiving has
stopped, so I know that worked.

    AMK4

--
H | Hi, I'm currently out of my mind.  Please leave a message.  BEEEEP!
  |____________________________________________________________________
  ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  Ashley M. Kirchner <mailto:ashley at pcraft.com>   .   303.442.6410 x130
  Director of Internet Operations / SysAdmin    .     800.441.3873 x130
  Photo Craft Laboratories, Inc.             .        eFax 248.671.0909
  http://www.pcraft.com                  .         3550 Arapahoe Ave #6
  .................. .  .  .     .               Boulder, CO 80303, USA





From GLeblanc at cu-portland.edu  Thu Oct  5 03:11:50 2000
From: GLeblanc at cu-portland.edu (Gregory Leblanc)
Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 18:11:50 -0700 
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archives
Message-ID: <025836EFF856D411A6660090272811E61D07D5@EMAIL>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ashley M. Kirchner [mailto:ashley at pcraft.com]
> 
>     When turning a list's Archival option to No (off), can I 
> just remove
> ~/archives/private/<list> and <list.mbox> from the drive?  Also, will
> the text 'To see the collection of prior postings to the 
> list, visit the
> <list> Archives.' go away from the listinfo page?

If you ask me, turning "off" archiving doesn't actually do half of the
things that it should.  I've gone through and customized just about every
page and message that's associated with some of my lists (using the patch to
allow everything to be custom per-list), and I've customized most of the
defaults as well.  It's a pretty easy hack to go in and remove the pointer
from the webpage, assuming that you don't want that list archived.  Look in
the lists/<listname> directory for a page called (I think) listinfo.html and
edit that.  Later,
	Greg



From skiani at alum.mit.edu  Thu Oct  5 03:31:56 2000
From: skiani at alum.mit.edu (Sepehr Kiani)
Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2000 21:31:56 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help with list
Message-ID: <39DBDA0C.A87C02D@alum.mit.edu>

Hi I'm having trouble getting mailman to work properly (1.1 adn 2.0beta
do the same thing). I'm running RH6.2 x86. I configured mailman with
--with-mail-gid=mail which is what sendmail seems to want. I used all
the default locations (/home/mailman). check_prems worked fine. Set
aliases and ran newaliases script. All the web pages seem to work fine.
I also note that my system uses smrsh, so I created a symbolic link to
/etc/smrsh/wrapper to /home/mail/wrapper which seems to get rid of the
error "wrapper not avaible". The only problem seems now that when I send
a message to the server nothing comes out (not even a bounce) and
nothing is archived. My mail log for an incoming message is as follows:

Oct  4 21:34:05 www sendmail[25321]: VAA25321:
from=<skiani at alum.mit.edu>, size=760, class=0, pri=30760, nrcpts=1,
msgid=<39DBD951.FE2E2FCD at alum.mit.edu>, proto=ESMTP,
relay=smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net [207.172.4.61]
Oct  4 21:34:06 www sendmail[25322]: VAA25321:
to="|/home/mailman/mail/wrapper post admin", delay=00:00:01,
xdelay=00:00:01, mailer=prog, stat=Sent

Any suggestions? One other note I also run this server as a firewall
with private IP on the inside, if that matters.

thanks,
-- 
Sepehr (Sep) Kiani
************************************
Development Engineering
Teradyne Connection Systems
skiani at alum.mit.edu
http://pergatory.mit.edu/skiani



From support at methlab.synth.org  Thu Oct  5 04:21:08 2000
From: support at methlab.synth.org (Support)
Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 19:21:08 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Erg.  Problem with web based admin interface...
Message-ID: <NDBBIFKIFDDNMOLMCJHPAEFCDMAA.support@methlab.synth.org>

Hi all,

I've got a problem



From support at methlab.synth.org  Thu Oct  5 04:28:23 2000
From: support at methlab.synth.org (Support)
Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 19:28:23 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] problem with web admin interface
Message-ID: <NDBBIFKIFDDNMOLMCJHPKEFCDMAA.support@methlab.synth.org>

Hi all,

Yeah, yeah, poke all the fun you want, I hit send accidentally.  Anyway,
I've got a problem with the web based admin interface.  Is there anyway to
add headers and footer text to outgoing emails without using the web
interface?  I want to add a formatted footer that is much larger than the
text input boxes allow.  I looked through the config.db, found the actual
data that I need to change, but I can't figure out what sort of DB file it
is.  Is there anyway to make manual changes to the footer and then push them
into the config.db file for that specific mailing list?

Thanks in advance,

-Kevin

mailman-2.0beta6
Sendmail 8.9.3/8.8.7
Linux kernel 2.2.5-22




From chuqui at plaidworks.com  Thu Oct  5 04:38:55 2000
From: chuqui at plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach)
Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 19:38:55 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] problem with web admin interface
In-Reply-To: <NDBBIFKIFDDNMOLMCJHPKEFCDMAA.support@methlab.synth.org>
References: <NDBBIFKIFDDNMOLMCJHPKEFCDMAA.support@methlab.synth.org>
Message-ID: <p04330115b60199bf1e77@[209.239.169.197]>

>Yeah, yeah, poke all the fun you want, I hit send accidentally

tee hee. Poke poke. nudge nudge. heh heh. silly person.

>Is there anyway to
>add headers and footer text to outgoing emails without using the web
>interface?

No. I suppose you could reverse-engineer what the web interface is 
doing and build a custom hack, but there's no tool or supported way 
of doing it. It probably wouldn't be too hard to write a quick hack 
to do it, though.

-- 
Chuq Von Rospach - Plaidworks Consulting (mailto:chuqui at plaidworks.com)
Apple Mail List Gnome (mailto:chuq at apple.com)

You seem a decent fellow. I hate to die.



From bug at aphid.net  Thu Oct  5 04:40:26 2000
From: bug at aphid.net (Chuck Dale)
Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 13:40:26 +1100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] problem with web admin interface
In-Reply-To: <NDBBIFKIFDDNMOLMCJHPKEFCDMAA.support@methlab.synth.org>; from support@methlab.synth.org on Wed, Oct 04, 2000 at 07:28:23PM -0700
References: <NDBBIFKIFDDNMOLMCJHPKEFCDMAA.support@methlab.synth.org>
Message-ID: <20001005134026.K1679@aphid.net>

Haha that is the funniest email I've seen in a while on this list =)

You might like the bin/config_list script.

Also bin/withlist.

Chuck

Wrote Support on Wed, Oct 04, 2000 at 07:28:23PM -0700:
> Hi all,
> 
> Yeah, yeah, poke all the fun you want, I hit send accidentally.  Anyway,
> I've got a problem with the web based admin interface.  Is there anyway to
> add headers and footer text to outgoing emails without using the web
> interface?  I want to add a formatted footer that is much larger than the
> text input boxes allow.  I looked through the config.db, found the actual
> data that I need to change, but I can't figure out what sort of DB file it
> is.  Is there anyway to make manual changes to the footer and then push them
> into the config.db file for that specific mailing list?
> 
> Thanks in advance,
> 
> -Kevin
> 
> mailman-2.0beta6
> Sendmail 8.9.3/8.8.7
> Linux kernel 2.2.5-22
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users maillist  -  Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users

                               [ bug at aphid.net ]



From Dan.Mick at West.Sun.COM  Thu Oct  5 04:58:21 2000
From: Dan.Mick at West.Sun.COM (Dan Mick)
Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 19:58:21 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] problem with web admin interface
Message-ID: <200010050257.TAA27344@utopia.west.sun.com>

You can use bin/withlist and write some very-stupid Python code
to do it.  I've done that.  If you use bin/config_list, it'll
dump the variables of interest, so you can find their name, and
then you can just set those with an assignment, or write some
slightly-more-involved Python code to open and read a file.

But you should know that the Web interface will scroll as needed;
we've put very long things in there.

> Hi all,
> 
> Yeah, yeah, poke all the fun you want, I hit send accidentally.  Anyway,
> I've got a problem with the web based admin interface.  Is there anyway to
> add headers and footer text to outgoing emails without using the web
> interface?  I want to add a formatted footer that is much larger than the
> text input boxes allow.  I looked through the config.db, found the actual
> data that I need to change, but I can't figure out what sort of DB file it
> is.  Is there anyway to make manual changes to the footer and then push them
> into the config.db file for that specific mailing list?
> 
> Thanks in advance,
> 
> -Kevin
> 
> mailman-2.0beta6
> Sendmail 8.9.3/8.8.7
> Linux kernel 2.2.5-22
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users maillist  -  Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users





From chuqui at plaidworks.com  Thu Oct  5 05:04:36 2000
From: chuqui at plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach)
Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 20:04:36 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] problem with web admin interface
In-Reply-To: <200010050257.TAA27344@utopia.west.sun.com>
References: <200010050257.TAA27344@utopia.west.sun.com>
Message-ID: <p0433011ab601a0079833@[209.239.169.197]>

At 7:58 PM -0700 10/4/00, Dan Mick wrote:
>You can use bin/withlist and write some very-stupid Python code
>to do it.  I've done that.  If you use bin/config_list, it'll
>dump the variables of interest, so you can find their name, and
>then you can just set those with an assignment, or write some
>slightly-more-involved Python code to open and read a file.

Interesting. I want a tool like this at some point so I can tweak 
things system wide easily (something mailman isn't particularly great 
at yet. I'll have to play with this.... hadn't thought of this 
approach.
-- 
Chuq Von Rospach - Plaidworks Consulting (mailto:chuqui at plaidworks.com)
Apple Mail List Gnome (mailto:chuq at apple.com)

You seem a decent fellow. I hate to die.



From Dan.Mick at west.sun.com  Thu Oct  5 05:14:42 2000
From: Dan.Mick at west.sun.com (Dan Mick)
Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 20:14:42 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] problem with web admin interface
Message-ID: <200010050313.UAA27779@utopia.west.sun.com>

For example:

$ python -i bin/withlist scr
Loading list: scr (unlocked)
>>> m.msg_footer
'_______________________________________________\015\012For event info, list 
questions, or to unsubscribe, see http://www.socal-raves.org/\015\012\015\012'
>>> f=open("footer.txt", "w")
>>> f.write(m.msg_footer)
>>> f.close()
>>> ^D
Finalizing
$ cat footer.txt 
_______________________________________________
For event info, list questions, or to unsubscribe, see 
http://www.socal-raves.org/

Of course you could use m.msg_footer=f.read() as well.  If you
do try to modify m, you'll want to lock it.  Read the comments
at the beginning of bin/withlist if you want to play with this
(and even people who don't know Python and don't program 
can conceivably get some use from this).

It's a power tool, but one that can be used by careful novices.

> From: Chuq Von Rospach <chuqui at plaidworks.com>
> Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] problem with web admin interface
> X-Beenthere: mailman-users at python.org
> X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta6
> List-Post: <mailto:mailman-users at python.org>
> List-Id: Mailman mailing list management users <mailman-users.python.org>
> List-Archive: <http://www.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/>
> Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 20:04:36 -0700
> 
> At 7:58 PM -0700 10/4/00, Dan Mick wrote:
> >You can use bin/withlist and write some very-stupid Python code
> >to do it.  I've done that.  If you use bin/config_list, it'll
> >dump the variables of interest, so you can find their name, and
> >then you can just set those with an assignment, or write some
> >slightly-more-involved Python code to open and read a file.
> 
> Interesting. I want a tool like this at some point so I can tweak 
> things system wide easily (something mailman isn't particularly great 
> at yet. I'll have to play with this.... hadn't thought of this 
> approach.
> -- 
> Chuq Von Rospach - Plaidworks Consulting (mailto:chuqui at plaidworks.com)
> Apple Mail List Gnome (mailto:chuq at apple.com)
> 
> You seem a decent fellow. I hate to die.
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users maillist  -  Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users





From vincent.denis at rightvision.com  Thu Oct  5 09:23:49 2000
From: vincent.denis at rightvision.com (Vincent DENIS)
Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 09:23:49 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] list server administrator documentation
In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20001004121754.02465250@admin.aurora.edu>
Message-ID: <NDBBIGEHEBNOMILAGFLEGEJGCFAA.vincent.denis@rightvision.com>

I know this Url, but if you see, there is no List Server Administrator
Documentation ...

The thing is : Does anyone know what you have to do
		- for a server with many list and havy traffic ...
		- each week or month to keep your server efficient
		- to clean some archive after a x month
		- to backup for a quick recovery
		- to monitor mail pendind for each list
		- to hold mail input or output


Regards,


Vincent

-----Message d'origine-----
De : Christopher Kolar [mailto:ckolar at admin.aurora.edu]
Envoy? : mercredi 4 octobre 2000 19:18
? : Vincent DENIS
Objet : Re: [Mailman-Users] list server administrator documentation


At 07:02 AM 10/4/2000, you wrote:

>Hello,
>
>
>Does anybody know where i can found any documentation about liste server
>administration ?
>
>Vincent

www.aurora.edu/~ckolar/mailman

--chris




From edfe at ba.dada.it  Thu Oct  5 12:33:22 2000
From: edfe at ba.dada.it (Edfe language centre)
Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 12:33:22 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Translation Services
Message-ID: <023901c02eb8$dba41e40$3072dfc3@Media>

Dear Sirs,

First we would like to thank you for your attention.

We have visited your WEB site that we have found very interesting, and we are writing, as we would like to collaborate with your company for translating any English documentation into Italian. If you are already translating your documents through translation agencies (as we collaborate ourselves with UK translation agencies for this kind of projects), you can cut the costs of agency fees directly using our service.

We are an Italian translation agency with a long lasting experience in translating documents for major UK companies, operating in the industry of Internet (web masters, Internet providers, etc.), food, household products, telephone systems, software and hardware, IT, raw materials, oils and lubes, and much more. Please visit our web site for a complete listing of fields we translate from/into: (www.edfe.com)

We offer great experience, reliability and perfection. Like no other translation agency in UK, we would be happy to grant you a price of GBP65 every 1,000 words. Payment can be made into our HSBC account, reducing bank problems.

We would be happy to hear from you and start a great business relation.

Please let us know if you are interested. 

You can call me on 0039.0883.333536 or email me on mail at edfe.com, I would be happy to give you all the information you need about our company.

Yours sincerely

Anna Maria Porcelluzzi

Language Manager

________________________________
edfe language centre
Translation Department

www.edfe.com
mail at edfe.com
tel.: (+39) 0883.33 35 36
fax: (+39) 0883.33 35 36
________________________________
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From chris at gwydion.net  Thu Oct  5 16:25:22 2000
From: chris at gwydion.net (Silk)
Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 15:25:22 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Another odd question
Message-ID: <20001005152522.A7934@gwydion.net>

It's me again.

I've managed to play with all the lists, to make them look in keeping
with teh looknfeel of the rest of my site.

One thing/section I can't find... even by doing things like greping
for 'mailman' and filtering the result through a grep on 'html'.

Where does Mailman keep the html for the pages:

http://www.foo.org/mailman/listinfo/*
http://www.foo.org/mailman/admin/*

As per my usual style I've probably failed to RTF but could
someone point me towards the correct M?

thanks,

~cHris
-- 
Chris Naden - chris at gwydion dot net
" Sometimes, home is just where you pour your coffee... "
             - Bruno Baldwin
http://www.gwydion.net/~chris/



From curly at apollo.wuacc.edu  Thu Oct  5 17:31:08 2000
From: curly at apollo.wuacc.edu (Joe)
Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 10:31:08 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] problem with web admin interface
In-Reply-To: <NDBBIFKIFDDNMOLMCJHPKEFCDMAA.support@methlab.synth.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0010051020540.4437-100000@apollo.wuacc.edu>

Hi,

I was wanting to add a custom welcome message to a dozen lists that had
foolishly already be created, so I did some checking and found that each
list's database is stored in a file called config.db which is what python
calls a marshal object.  So I found the docs for marshal and cooked up a
routine to add my own stuff. Here's what the code looks like:
------------------------------------------------------------------------
import marshal,os

def main(argv):
    if len(sys.argv) < 2:
        print "Usage: update.py [ hostname ]"
    else:

# create a list of lists

	l = os.listdir(path)

# go to the list and load its database
# you can pluck out any part that you want or print all keys and values to
# find out the structure
	for k in l:
		config = open(path + "/" + k + "/config.db","r")
		m = marshal.load(config)
		real_name = m['real_name']
		config.close()

# I couldn't get python to write my changes with the single open because
# it was read-only. So I closed that one and open a writable file object
# made my changes and saved the stuff
		
		g = open(config,"w")

		m['welcome_msg'] = "any welcome that you want"
		m['msg_footer']	 = "footer of your choice"

# add members, but I wouldn't recommend it on existing lists

		g['members'] = {'curly at apollo.wuacc.edu': 8}
		marshal.dump(m,g)
		g.close()

if __name__ == "__main__":
	hostname = sys.argv[1]
	path = "/home/mailman/lists"
    	main(sys.argv)
    
--------------------------------------------------------------

It may not look pretty, by it works.  Maybe you'll find it useful.

Curly

On Wed, 4 Oct 2000, Support wrote:

> Hi all,
> 
> Yeah, yeah, poke all the fun you want, I hit send accidentally.  Anyway,
> I've got a problem with the web based admin interface.  Is there anyway to
> add headers and footer text to outgoing emails without using the web
> interface?  I want to add a formatted footer that is much larger than the
> text input boxes allow.  I looked through the config.db, found the actual
> data that I need to change, but I can't figure out what sort of DB file it
> is.  Is there anyway to make manual changes to the footer and then push them
> into the config.db file for that specific mailing list?
> 
> Thanks in advance,
> 
> -Kevin
> 
> mailman-2.0beta6
> Sendmail 8.9.3/8.8.7
> Linux kernel 2.2.5-22
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users maillist  -  Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> 




From mic at t0.or.at  Thu Oct  5 17:43:03 2000
From: mic at t0.or.at (Michael Dosser)
Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 17:43:03 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] corrupt email adresses
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.21.0010051717480.65677-100000@chuck.t0.or.at>

hi all!

i have a problem with one of my list, which seems to have invalid email
adresses (many ^@^@^@^ in the adress yust like in the config.db).
list_members shows me that adresses, but on the webpage i can't
unsubscribe them (saying: no such email-adress). check_db says the
database is fine, but when mailman passes the email adresses to sendmail
it stops with error message 1. only those few email-adresses until the
corupt ones seems to pass through. well, i tried to repair the list by
removing the email adresses from the output of list_members piped to a
file, but the script broke with error messages. i also tried to sync
members with the clean email-adresses in a file. same result.

has anybody seen something like that? any suggestions in cleaning those
email-adresses? because the only way i see is to remove the list completly
and making it new.

any suggestions are welcome
thx in advance,
mic

system:
freebsd 4.0 release
sendmail 8.10.1
mailman2.0beta2 
python 1.52




From chuqui at plaidworks.com  Thu Oct  5 17:37:43 2000
From: chuqui at plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach)
Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 08:37:43 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Another odd question
In-Reply-To: <20001005152522.A7934@gwydion.net>
References: <20001005152522.A7934@gwydion.net>
Message-ID: <p04330100b60250647c15@[209.239.169.197]>

At 3:25 PM +0100 10/5/00, Silk wrote:

>Where does Mailman keep the html for the pages:
>
>http://www.foo.org/mailman/listinfo/*
>http://www.foo.org/mailman/admin/*

~mailman/lists/<listname>/...

look for listinfo.html to start.

This is a gotcha people miss -- if they update the templates (or 
update a release that updates the templates), the lists don't get 
updated, so you have to remember to do so manually.

-- 
Chuq Von Rospach - Plaidworks Consulting (mailto:chuqui at plaidworks.com)
Apple Mail List Gnome (mailto:chuq at apple.com)

You seem a decent fellow. I hate to die.



From curly at apollo.wuacc.edu  Thu Oct  5 18:07:11 2000
From: curly at apollo.wuacc.edu (Joe)
Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 11:07:11 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] list password doesn't stick
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0010051106110.4437-100000@apollo.wuacc.edu>

I've been trying to change a list password but mailman refuses to
authenticate.  

What can I do?

Joe




From chris at gwydion.net  Thu Oct  5 18:20:24 2000
From: chris at gwydion.net (Silk)
Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 17:20:24 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Another odd question
In-Reply-To: <p04330100b60250647c15@[209.239.169.197]>; from chuqui@plaidworks.com on Thu, Oct 05, 2000 at 08:37:43AM -0700
References: <20001005152522.A7934@gwydion.net> <p04330100b60250647c15@[209.239.169.197]>
Message-ID: <20001005172023.A11340@gwydion.net>

> >Where does Mailman keep the html for the pages:
> >
> >http://www.foo.org/mailman/listinfo/*
> >http://www.foo.org/mailman/admin/*
> 
> ~mailman/lists/<listname>/...

No it doesn't, it keeps those in 

http://www.foo.org/mailman/listinfo/$listname/listinfo.html etc.

I evidently wasn't clear when I phrased this.

If you go to 

http://www.gwydion.net/mailman/listinfo/ you will get a standard
page of mailman-formatted html. 

If you follow a list link, eg the 'updates' link, you will see
http://www.gwydion.net/mailman/listinfo/updates/
which is formatted to follow the visual feel of the whole rest of
my site.

Where is the html kept for the first of these two pages?
That's my question. Equally, where is the html for all the
admin pages kept? That's purely out of interest, I'm the
only person who'll ever see them (at the moment) so at the
moment it's not particularly important, but I'd *really*really*
like to be able to have /mailman/listinfo/ conform with all
hte pages further up and also further down the tree from it.

thanks

~cHris

-- 
Chris Naden - chris at gwydion dot net
" Sometimes, home is just where you pour your coffee... "
             - Bruno Baldwin
http://www.gwydion.net/~chris/



From lindsey at varda.mallorn.com  Thu Oct  5 18:52:42 2000
From: lindsey at varda.mallorn.com (Christopher P. Lindsey)
Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 11:52:42 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] corrupt email adresses
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.21.0010051717480.65677-100000@chuck.t0.or.at> from "Michael Dosser" at Oct 05, 2000 05:43:03 PM
Message-ID: <200010051652.LAA21298@varda.mallorn.com>

> i have a problem with one of my list, which seems to have invalid email
> adresses (many ^@^@^@^ in the adress yust like in the config.db).
> list_members shows me that adresses, but on the webpage i can't
> unsubscribe them (saying: no such email-adress). check_db says the
> database is fine, but when mailman passes the email adresses to sendmail
> it stops with error message 1. only those few email-adresses until the
> corupt ones seems to pass through. well, i tried to repair the list by
> removing the email adresses from the output of list_members piped to a
> file, but the script broke with error messages. i also tried to sync
> members with the clean email-adresses in a file. same result.

Hi,
 
   I ran into many similar problems while testing for the poison NULL
   byte in email addresses about a year ago.  For example, if I
   subscribe a user named `/bin/touch/%20/tmp/whee`\0 at example.com
   I can subscribe just fine, but if the list manager tries to
   unsubscribe me via the Web interface it dies (presumably because
   \0 is interpreted as an end-of-string character).

   You'll have to use the command-line program remove_members to do it;
   it has no such qualms about unsubscribing weird addresses.

Chris






From marc_news at valinux.com  Thu Oct  5 19:19:13 2000
From: marc_news at valinux.com (Marc MERLIN)
Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 10:19:13 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Using mailman with the secure-linux kernel patch
Message-ID: <20001005101913.M14681@marc.merlins.org>

[mailman-developers at python.org Cced in case they want to add my shell script to
the tree, but followup set to mailman-users at python.org]

I wanted to have mailman run on my servers that have the secure-linux kernel
patch. I ended up  writing a small shell script that  changed permissions so
that  scripts ran  as UID  mailman (by  making sure  that scripts  that lock
config.db do so with UID mailman).
I later realized that python doesn't  seem to have a suidpython wrapper like
perl does, so I  scrapped the shell script and attempted to  put a few lines
of python together to modify some scripts in mailman/bin so that they change
their uid  to mailman  if root  runs them  or complain  that they  can't run
unless their uid is mailman.

Please let  me know if  I forgot  to chmod or  modify other files  that lock
config.db:
binfilestopatch= ( 'add_members', 'check_db', 'clone_member', 'config_list',
'move_list', 'newlist', 'remove_members', 'rmlist', 'sync_members',
'update', 'withlist' )

It'd  be  nice  if  that  script  were  included  as  unsupported  with  the
mailman tree  so that people  who really want  to have the  protections from
secure-linux, can still run mailman.
If someone needs to make minor modifications to the script before including
it, I'm cool with that.

Thanks,
Marc

~mailman/bin/fix_perms.securelinux
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
#! /usr/bin/env python
#
# Copyright (C) 1998,1999,2000 by the Free Software Foundation, Inc.
#
# This program is free software; you can redistribute it and/or
# modify it under the terms of the GNU General Public License
# as published by the Free Software Foundation; either version 2
# of the License, or (at your option) any later version.
# 
# This program is distributed in the hope that it will be useful,
# but WITHOUT ANY WARRANTY; without even the implied warranty of
# MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE.  See the
# GNU General Public License for more details.
# 
# You should have received a copy of the GNU General Public License
# along with this program; if not, write to the Free Software 
# Foundation, Inc., 59 Temple Place - Suite 330, Boston, MA 02111-1307, USA.

"""If you use  Solar Designer's secure-linux patch, it prevents  a process from
linking (hard link) to a file it  doesn't own. As a result mailman has to be
changed so that the whole tree is owned by mailman, and the CGIs and some of
the programs in the  bin tree (the ones that lock  config.db files) are SUID
mailman.
The idea  is that config.db files  have to be  owned by the mailman  UID and
only touched by programs that are UID mailman.
 
If you  have to  run check_perms -f,  make sure to  also run  %(PROGRAM) -f,
which applies the necessary permission fixes
 
As a  result, to  prevent anyone from  running priviledged  mailman commands
(since the  scripts are suid), binary  commands that are changed  to be SUID
are also unreadable and unrunable by people who aren't in the mailman group.
This shouldn't affect  much since most of those commands  would fail work if
you weren't part of the mailman group anyway.

Marc <marcsoft at merlins.org>/<marc_bts at valinux.com> 2000/10/04
"""

import sys
import os
import paths
import re

# Those are the programs that we patch so that they insist being run under the
# mailman uid or as root.
binfilestopatch= ( 'add_members', 'check_db', 'clone_member', 'config_list', 'move_list', 'newlist', 'remove_members', 'rmlist', 'sync_members', 'update', 'withlist' )

def main():
    binpath=paths.prefix+'/bin/'
    droplib=binpath+'CheckFixUid.py'

    if len(argv)<2 or argv[1] != "-f":
	print __doc__
	sys.exit(1)

    if not os.path.exists(droplib):
	print "Creating "+droplib
	fp=open(droplib, 'w', 0644)
	fp.write("""import sys
import pwd
import os

class CheckFixUid:
    mailmanuid=pwd.getpwnam("mailman")[2]
    if os.geteuid() == 0:
	os.setuid(mailmanuid)
    if os.geteuid() != mailmanuid:
	print "You need to run this script as root or mailman because it was configured to run\non a linux system with the secure-linux patch which restricts hard links"
	sys.exit()
""")
	fp.close
    else:
	print "Skipping creation of "+droplib


    print "Making cgis setuid mailman"
    os.system('chmod 6755 '+paths.prefix+'/cgi-bin/*')

    print "Making mail wrapper setuid mailman"
    os.system('chmod 6755 '+paths.prefix+'/mail/wrapper')

    print "Ensuring that all config.db fiels are owned by Mailman"
    os.system('chown mailman.mailman '+paths.prefix+'/lists/*/config.db*')

    print "Patching mailman scripts to change the uid to mailman"

    for script in binfilestopatch:
	filefd=open(script, "r")
	file=filefd.readlines()
	filefd.close()

	patched=0
	try:
	    file.index("import CheckFixUid\n")
	    print "Not patching "+script+", already patched"
	except ValueError:
	    file.insert(file.index("import paths\n")+1, "import CheckFixUid\n")
	    for i in range(len(file)-1, 0, -1):
		object=re.compile("^([	 ]*)main\(").search(file[i])
		if object:
		    print "Patching "+script
		    file.insert(i, object.group(1)+"CheckFixUid.CheckFixUid()\n")
		    patched=1
		    break

	    if patched==0:
		print "Warning, file "+script+" couldn't be patched.\nIf you use it, mailman may not function properly"
	    else:
		filefd=open(script, "w")
		filefd.writelines(file)
	    
main(sys.argv)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

-- 
Microsoft is to software what McDonalds is to gourmet cooking
 
Home page: http://marc.merlins.org/ (friendly to non IE browsers)
Finger marc_f at merlins.org for PGP key and other contact information



From kallio at st.jyu.fi  Thu Oct  5 19:32:58 2000
From: kallio at st.jyu.fi (Seppo Kallio)
Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 20:32:58 +0300 (EEST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Problem_with_subjects_with_national_chars_like?=
 =?ISO-8859-1?Q?_this=3A_=E5=E4=F6?=
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0010052026010.23327-100000@itu.st.jyu.fi>

Pipermail (?) does not decode mime characters in subject line.
Is this a feature or is there somewhere config parameter to get
pipermail to make mime correctly in subject?

hypermail 2b29 can do it 

Example:

-----------------------CUT HERE-------------------
Starting: Mon Oct 2 19:21:23 2000
Ending: Thu Oct 5 13:49:00 2000
Messages: 23

      [Herp] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Herppiyhdistyksest=E4=3F?==?iso-8859-1?Q?Petteri_M=E4ntysaari?= 
            [Herp]=?iso-8859-1?Q?Vs:_=5BHerp=5D_Herppiyhdistyksest=E4=3F?= Soile 
      [Herp] Akvaario myyt?v?n? Lady Vempire 
      [Herp] RE: [Herp] J?senkokous Helsingiss? 4.10. Panu Keih?s 
            [Herp] RE: [Herp] J?senkokous Helsingiss? 4.10. Marika 
      [Herp]=?iso-8859-1?Q?RE=3A_=5BHerp=5D_J=E4senkokous_Helsingiss=E4_4=2E?==?iso-8859-1?Q?10=2E?= Siltala

---------------------ETC--------------------------

www-page at:

http://majordomo.cc.jyu.fi/pipermail/herp/2000-October/thread.html

-- 
Seppo Kallio kallio at cc.jyu.fi http://www.jyu.fi/~kallio 014 2603606




From kallio at st.jyu.fi  Thu Oct  5 19:40:32 2000
From: kallio at st.jyu.fi (Seppo Kallio)
Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 20:40:32 +0300 (EEST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Mime_in_subject_=2E=2E=2E_more__=C4=C5=D6=E4?=
 =?ISO-8859-1?Q?=E5=F6?=
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0010052036590.23771-100000@itu.st.jyu.fi>

I think at www.python.org the "Letter List" is showing mime in subject
line correctly, but not in "Next Message" link.

I and www.python.org have pipermail 0.05 (Mailman version)

Any European users? Hallo? Do you have this problem solved?

-- 
Seppo Kallio kallio at cc.jyu.fi http://www.jyu.fi/~kallio 014 2603606




From veldy at veldy.net  Thu Oct  5 20:13:41 2000
From: veldy at veldy.net (Thomas T. Veldhouse)
Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 13:13:41 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Subscription Reply bug in beta6`
References: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0010052026010.23327-100000@itu.st.jyu.fi>
Message-ID: <03ac01c02ef8$03706ac0$ea6810ac@psinetcs.com>

I have noticed that when a user subscribes to the list - they get an email,
if they simply reply to the email, it goes to the list at domain.com instead of
list-request at domain.com.  It works OK, as long as you are processing email
and looking for administrative requests - but if you turn that option off -
it quits working.

While I am at it.  I also found a bug that if you create a new list, the
list.mbox file is empty. That should be OK, but it causes the following
error:

Oct 05 13:06:01 2000 (474) Archive file access failure:
        /usr/local/mailman/archives/private/homebrew.mbox/homebrew.mbox (0,
'Err
or')
Oct 05 13:06:01 2000 (474) Delivery exception: (0, 'Error')
Oct 05 13:06:01 2000 (474) Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/HandlerAPI.py", line 82, in
do_pipel
ine
    func(mlist, msg, msgdata)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/ToArchive.py", line 47, in
process
    mlist.ArchiveMail(msg, msgdata)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/Archiver.py", line 189, in
ArchiveMa
il
    self.__archive_to_mbox(msg)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/Archiver.py", line 160, in
__archive
_to_mbox
    mbox.AppendMessage(post)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Mailbox.py", line 41, in AppendMessage
    self.fp.seek(-1, 2)
IOError: (0, 'Error')


I simply add a space to the file and then the list processes as normal.

Tom Veldhouse
veldy at veldy.net





From akapitan at facstaff.wisc.edu  Thu Oct  5 20:28:34 2000
From: akapitan at facstaff.wisc.edu (Andrea K)
Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 13:28:34 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] one list under email attack
In-Reply-To: <20000928210402.210821CDA2@dinsdale.python.org>
References: <20000928210402.210821CDA2@dinsdale.python.org>
Message-ID: <v04210100b602785670ed@[128.104.206.99]>

How do I filter out spam email by domain, so I don't have reject each one
from the web page.  We would like to try to avoid doing this with sendmail.

Thanks,

-Andrea
--
Life - the Ultimate Video Game...Participate!
Don't just watch the demo.



From veldy at veldy.net  Thu Oct  5 20:38:31 2000
From: veldy at veldy.net (Thomas T. Veldhouse)
Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 13:38:31 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] one list under email attack
References: <20000928210402.210821CDA2@dinsdale.python.org> <v04210100b602785670ed@[128.104.206.99]>
Message-ID: <03f401c02efb$77aeb060$ea6810ac@psinetcs.com>

You could firewall it.

On a FreeBSD machine:

ipfw add deny log tcp from $domainip to any 25 via dc1 in

This would also keep you from getting all sorts of emails if you try to get
mailman to do it.

Tom Veldhouse
veldy at veldy.net

----- Original Message -----
From: "Andrea K" <akapitan at facstaff.wisc.edu>
To: <mailman-users at python.org>
Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2000 1:28 PM
Subject: [Mailman-Users] one list under email attack


> How do I filter out spam email by domain, so I don't have reject each one
> from the web page.  We would like to try to avoid doing this with
sendmail.
>
> Thanks,
>
> -Andrea
> --
> Life - the Ultimate Video Game...Participate!
> Don't just watch the demo.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users maillist  -  Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
>




From ronphelps at centralva.net  Thu Oct  5 21:31:20 2000
From: ronphelps at centralva.net (ron phelps)
Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2000 15:31:20 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] gid
Message-ID: <39DCD708.9663D0E0@centralva.net>

hi all..
trying to get mailman working
it gives me the error
----------------
Mailman CGI error!!!

The expected gid of the Mailman CGI wrapper did not match the gid as set
by the Web server.

The most likely cause is that Mailman was configured and installed
incorrectly. Please read the INSTALL instructions again, paying close
attention to the
--with-cgi-gid configure option. This entry is being stored in your
syslog:

Failure to exec script. WANTED gid 535, GOT gid 16.  (Reconfigure to
take 16?)
----------------
help

ron




From hedemark at bops.com  Thu Oct  5 21:47:09 2000
From: hedemark at bops.com (Chris Hedemark)
Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 15:47:09 -0400 
Subject: [Mailman-Users] one list under email attack
Message-ID: <3D71CCC526F1D311A72600902773EC21209CCD@cascabella.rtp.bops.com>

One of the better solutions, IMHO, is to use MAPS RBL.
http://mail-abuse.org/rbl/


-----Original Message-----
From: Andrea K [mailto:akapitan at facstaff.wisc.edu]
Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2000 2:29 PM
To: mailman-users at python.org
Subject: [Mailman-Users] one list under email attack


How do I filter out spam email by domain, so I don't have reject each one
from the web page.  We would like to try to avoid doing this with sendmail.

Thanks,

-Andrea
--
Life - the Ultimate Video Game...Participate!
Don't just watch the demo.

------------------------------------------------------
Mailman-Users maillist  -  Mailman-Users at python.org
http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users



From bwarsaw at beopen.com  Thu Oct  5 22:05:05 2000
From: bwarsaw at beopen.com (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 16:05:05 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: [Mailman-Developers] "download the full raw archive"
References: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0010022206280.5021-100000@alb-net.com>
Message-ID: <14812.57073.817910.35800@anthem.concentric.net>

>>>>> "MC" == Mentor Cana <mentor at alb-net.com> writes:

    MC> Doesn't this link run contrary to the "obscure_addresses"
    MC> Option?

Yup, but so does the old downloadable archive link, so I don't think
this change /increases/ the spam harvesting potential.

    MC> Even if I have the obscure_addresses Option set to YES, the
    MC> e-mail addresses of public archives can be still harvested by
    MC> various robots out there.

I'm not sure what to do about it.  The links are useful and since the
files are intended to be MUA-ready, munging the addresses is
inconvenient.  I guess if the list admin is really worried about
harvesting, she'll make the archives private and force access through
the authentication page.

Not a great position to take, I admit.

-Barry



From dgc at uchicago.edu  Thu Oct  5 22:14:32 2000
From: dgc at uchicago.edu (David Champion)
Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 15:14:32 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: "download the full raw archive"
In-Reply-To: <14812.57073.817910.35800@anthem.concentric.net>; from bwarsaw@beopen.com on Thu, Oct 05, 2000 at 04:05:05PM -0400
References: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0010022206280.5021-100000@alb-net.com> <14812.57073.817910.35800@anthem.concentric.net>
Message-ID: <20001005151432.S18564@smack.uchicago.edu>

On 2000.10.05, in <14812.57073.817910.35800 at anthem.concentric.net>,
	"Barry A. Warsaw" <bwarsaw at beopen.com> wrote:
> 
> I'm not sure what to do about it.  The links are useful and since the
> files are intended to be MUA-ready, munging the addresses is
> inconvenient.  I guess if the list admin is really worried about
> harvesting, she'll make the archives private and force access through
> the authentication page.
> 
> Not a great position to take, I admit.

I think it's a fine position to take, as long as there's a way for the
concerned administrator to block access.  I'm disappointed when I can't
obtain virginal mbox archives of a list, and authenticating access is a
perfectly good solution to the harvester problem.

Maybe, as a compromise, the text and mbox links should be authenticated
even when the archives are private?                                    

-- 
 -D.	dgc at uchicago.edu	NSIT	University of Chicago



From chuqui at plaidworks.com  Thu Oct  5 22:21:30 2000
From: chuqui at plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach)
Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 13:21:30 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: [Mailman-Developers] "download the full raw archive"
In-Reply-To: <14812.57073.817910.35800@anthem.concentric.net>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0010022206280.5021-100000@alb-net.com>
 <14812.57073.817910.35800@anthem.concentric.net>
Message-ID: <p04330100b6029235c5f6@[17.216.27.227]>


>Yup, but so does the old downloadable archive link, so I don't think
>this change /increases/ the spam harvesting potential.
>
>     MC> Even if I have the obscure_addresses Option set to YES, the
>     MC> e-mail addresses of public archives can be still harvested by
>     MC> various robots out there.
>
>I'm not sure what to do about it.


I'm putting all of my archives, search engine, etc, behind a security 
realm. They'll have to know where to find the acct/password, and type 
it in.

That shuts out all of the automated harvesters. If someone wants to 
manually come in try to harvest, you need to depend on being able to 
recognize it happening and deal with it on a case by case basis, but 
then, if you have an individual harvesting, they can always quietly 
subscribe to the lists and harvest the e-mail stream you deliver to 
them, -- and you'll never know it's happening.

so I don't worry about the manual harvester. First, it rarely 
happens. Second, if they have a clue you'll never catch them. Third, 
few have a clue and they're easy to find. And fourth, that kind of 
person is very rare. I'm worried about (a) keeping email addresses 
out of the global search engines where most harvesting happens, and 
(b) closing out the automated spider harvesters that do 99% of the 
rest of the harvesting.

and if you think about it, you can't find, much less stop, a 
harvester that subscribes to lists and sucks e-mail off the list 
server, so that's the most secure you can make a mail list. It makes 
no sense to try to make your archives MORE secure than you can make 
the list itself. So I focus on dealing wtih indiviual harvesters by 
alarms on suspicious activity in the archives, and let passwords lock 
out the bots, and that, to me, is about as good as you can expect, 
because it's as secure as your list itself is.

-- 
Chuq Von Rospach - Plaidworks Consulting (mailto:chuqui at plaidworks.com)
Apple Mail List Gnome (mailto:chuq at apple.com)

You seem a decent fellow. I hate to die.



From Dan.Mick at west.sun.com  Thu Oct  5 22:25:30 2000
From: Dan.Mick at west.sun.com (Dan Mick)
Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2000 13:25:30 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] one list under email attack
References: <20000928210402.210821CDA2@dinsdale.python.org> <v04210100b602785670ed@[128.104.206.99]>
Message-ID: <39DCE3BA.A43F91D5@west.sun.com>

Put it in Handlers/SpamDetect.py.  

Andrea K wrote:
> 
> How do I filter out spam email by domain, so I don't have reject each one
> from the web page.  We would like to try to avoid doing this with sendmail.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> -Andrea
> --
> Life - the Ultimate Video Game...Participate!
> Don't just watch the demo.
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users maillist  -  Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users



From callinma at gse.harvard.edu  Thu Oct  5 23:11:29 2000
From: callinma at gse.harvard.edu (Peggy Callinan)
Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2000 17:11:29 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem subscribing non-local users
Message-ID: <EXECMAIL.1001005171129.K@gsegx1.gse.harvard.edu>

I'm trying to figure out why subscribe requests from users not on our 
network fail on our system. We're using MMbeta2.05 on Solaris. Users on 
our network  can mail requests to [listname]-request and subscribe with
no problem, but for anyone trying to subscribe outside of our network, 
the requests appear as pending in the subscribe log and shows up in the
post log as a failure.  The requests also appear in the
data/pending_subscriptions.db

The administrator can subscribe these users, but they don't receive the
confirmation request.

The MTA logs don't show any problems nor do any of the var/logs. The
only indication of a problem are the post and subscribe log entries. If
anyone has any ideas, I'd appreciate your suggestions.
Thanks,



From ronphelps at centralva.net  Fri Oct  6 01:02:36 2000
From: ronphelps at centralva.net (ron phelps)
Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2000 19:02:36 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] weird help
Message-ID: <39DD088C.EA46115F@centralva.net>

strange..
I asked for a little help and then this character  Dan Mick
<Dan.Mick at west.sun.com>
writes 4 emails collectively telling me
I'm stupid, can't read, and am a hapless child.
with absolutely no helpful information..

I wrote
> hey dan..
> don't answer any more of my questions please.
> you've written 2 emails that contained no help
he wrote...
Uh....yes they do.  You just apparently can't read it.  Which
is the problem.
I wrote
go jump
he wrote..
you can either use the information in front of you or act like a hapless
child.


hey guys..I only wanted some help
I read the install several times
reconfigured twice
I just don't understand gid
it isn't in the index of my linux book
I think I'll keep my questions to this list vs writing to individual
emails


very weird help
ron






From Dan.Mick at West.Sun.COM  Fri Oct  6 01:10:48 2000
From: Dan.Mick at West.Sun.COM (Dan Mick)
Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 16:10:48 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] weird help
Message-ID: <200010052309.QAA27981@utopia.west.sun.com>

That is, of course, Ron's interpretation of our exchange; mine
is different.

Someone else can help him, after his little tirade is done.

> strange..
> I asked for a little help and then this character  Dan Mick
> <Dan.Mick at west.sun.com>
> writes 4 emails collectively telling me
> I'm stupid, can't read, and am a hapless child.
> with absolutely no helpful information..
> 
> I wrote
> > hey dan..
> > don't answer any more of my questions please.
> > you've written 2 emails that contained no help
> he wrote...
> Uh....yes they do.  You just apparently can't read it.  Which
> is the problem.
> I wrote
> go jump
> he wrote..
> you can either use the information in front of you or act like a hapless
> child.
> 
> 
> hey guys..I only wanted some help
> I read the install several times
> reconfigured twice
> I just don't understand gid
> it isn't in the index of my linux book
> I think I'll keep my questions to this list vs writing to individual
> emails
> 
> 
> very weird help
> ron
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users maillist  -  Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users





From ashley at pcraft.com  Fri Oct  6 01:23:41 2000
From: ashley at pcraft.com (Ashley M. Kirchner)
Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2000 17:23:41 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] gid
References: <39DCD708.9663D0E0@centralva.net>
Message-ID: <39DD0D7D.CCB0EF16@pcraft.com>

ron phelps wrote:

> hi all..
> trying to get mailman working
> it gives me the error
> ----------------
> Mailman CGI error!!!
>
> The expected gid of the Mailman CGI wrapper did not match the gid as set
> by the Web server.
>
> The most likely cause is that Mailman was configured and installed
> incorrectly. Please read the INSTALL instructions again, paying close
> attention to the
> --with-cgi-gid configure option. This entry is being stored in your
> syslog:
>
> Failure to exec script. WANTED gid 535, GOT gid 16.  (Reconfigure to
> take 16?)
> ----------------

    The error message tells you what you should do.  Read the INSTALL file.
Here's an excerpt:

      --with-cgi-gid=<group-or-groups>
            Specify an alternative group for running scripts via the
            CGI wrapper.  <group-or-groups> can be a list of one or
            more integer group ids or symbolic group names.  The first
            value in the list that resolves to an existing group is
            used.  By default, the value is the the list `www www-data
            nobody'.

            The proper value for this is dependent on your Web server
            configuration.  You must get this right, because the group
            id is compiled into the CGI wrapper program for added
            security, and no Mailman CGI scripts will run if this is
            incorrect.

            If you're using Apache, check the values for the `Group'
            option in your httpd.conf file.



    Translating the error message: Mailman tried running the scripts with
GID (group id) 535, where your webserver seems to be configured for GID 16.
So, reconfigure Mailman by supplying the GID flag on the configure line:
configure --with-cgi-gid=16  (or use the groupname).  Recompile and
reinstall.

    AMK4

--
W |
  |  I haven't lost my mind; it's backed up on tape somewhere.
  |____________________________________________________________________
  ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  Ashley M. Kirchner <mailto:ashley at pcraft.com>   .   303.442.6410 x130
  SysAdmin / Websmith                           .     800.441.3873 x130
  Photo Craft Laboratories, Inc.             .        eFax 248.671.0909
  http://www.pcraft.com                  .         3550 Arapahoe Ave #6
  .................. .  .  .     .               Boulder, CO 80303, USA





From ronphelps at centralva.net  Fri Oct  6 02:25:29 2000
From: ronphelps at centralva.net (ron phelps)
Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2000 20:25:29 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] thanks ashley --on gid
References: <39DCD708.9663D0E0@centralva.net> <39DD0D7D.CCB0EF16@pcraft.com>
Message-ID: <39DD1BF8.7173D9@centralva.net>

ashley set me straight..
he showed me how to set the gid..
wow ...wasn't hard at all..

thanks guys

ron




From harrison at timharrison.com  Fri Oct  6 02:53:29 2000
From: harrison at timharrison.com (Tim Harrison)
Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2000 20:53:29 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Subscription Reply bug in beta6`
References: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0010052026010.23327-100000@itu.st.jyu.fi> <03ac01c02ef8$03706ac0$ea6810ac@psinetcs.com>
Message-ID: <39DD2289.CC43DE9F@timharrison.com>

"Thomas T. Veldhouse" wrote:
 
> I have noticed that when a user subscribes to the list - they get an email,
> if they simply reply to the email, it goes to the list at domain.com instead of
> list-request at domain.com.  It works OK, as long as you are processing email
> and looking for administrative requests - but if you turn that option off -
> it quits working.

Okay, so I'm not the only one having this problem.  I thought I was on
drugs. :)  I finally got Mailman and Postfix to work together (damned
permissions on the aliases file/db in Mailman's home directory), and all
was proceeding normally (in fact, all subscriptions worked fine), until
I hit about 15 users.  At which point, every email going out from a
subscription request had a reply-to of list at domain.tld, instead of
list-request at domain.tld.  It had worked fine previously, and I hadn't
touched a darned thing.  I went back through my command histories, made
sure that I hadn't updated anything on the web pages, and was very
confused.  Still am.  

I added a disclaimer to the HTML for the list signup, saying that the
user needs to replace list@ with list-request at .  I'm still hammering
through the setup, just to make sure I didn't screw anything up myself.

-- 


Tim Harrison
Network Engineer
harrison at timharrison.com
http://www.networklevel.com/



From chuqui at plaidworks.com  Fri Oct  6 03:24:03 2000
From: chuqui at plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach)
Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 18:24:03 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Subscription Reply bug in beta6`
In-Reply-To: <39DD2289.CC43DE9F@timharrison.com>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0010052026010.23327-100000@itu.st.jyu.fi>
 <03ac01c02ef8$03706ac0$ea6810ac@psinetcs.com>
 <39DD2289.CC43DE9F@timharrison.com>
Message-ID: <p04330100b602da1a0927@[209.239.169.197]>

At 8:53 PM -0400 10/5/00, Tim Harrison wrote:
>"Thomas T. Veldhouse" wrote:
>
>>  I have noticed that when a user subscribes to the list - they get an email,
>>  if they simply reply to the email, it goes to the list at domain.com instead of
>  > list-request at domain.com.

I believe this is a known bug, and that Barry fixed it recently in the CVS.
-- 
Chuq Von Rospach - Plaidworks Consulting (mailto:chuqui at plaidworks.com)
Apple Mail List Gnome (mailto:chuq at apple.com)

You seem a decent fellow. I hate to die.



From support at methlab.synth.org  Fri Oct  6 04:15:08 2000
From: support at methlab.synth.org (Support)
Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 19:15:08 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] problem with web admin interface
In-Reply-To: <20001005134026.K1679@aphid.net>
Message-ID: <NDBBIFKIFDDNMOLMCJHPGEGLDMAA.support@methlab.synth.org>

We have a winner thanks!

-Kevin

-----Original Message-----
From: mailman-users-admin at python.org
[mailto:mailman-users-admin at python.org]On Behalf Of Chuck Dale
Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2000 7:40 PM
To: mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] problem with web admin interface


Haha that is the funniest email I've seen in a while on this list =)

You might like the bin/config_list script.

Also bin/withlist.

Chuck

Wrote Support on Wed, Oct 04, 2000 at 07:28:23PM -0700:
> Hi all,
>
> Yeah, yeah, poke all the fun you want, I hit send accidentally.  Anyway,
> I've got a problem with the web based admin interface.  Is there anyway to
> add headers and footer text to outgoing emails without using the web
> interface?  I want to add a formatted footer that is much larger than the
> text input boxes allow.  I looked through the config.db, found the actual
> data that I need to change, but I can't figure out what sort of DB file it
> is.  Is there anyway to make manual changes to the footer and then push
them
> into the config.db file for that specific mailing list?
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> -Kevin
>
> mailman-2.0beta6
> Sendmail 8.9.3/8.8.7
> Linux kernel 2.2.5-22
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users maillist  -  Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users

                               [ bug at aphid.net ]

------------------------------------------------------
Mailman-Users maillist  -  Mailman-Users at python.org
http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users




From cblist at cityb.net  Fri Oct  6 05:37:10 2000
From: cblist at cityb.net (cblist at cityb.net)
Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 23:37:10 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Another odd question
In-Reply-To: <20001005172023.A11340@gwydion.net>; from chris@gwydion.net on Thu, Oct 05, 2000 at 05:20:24PM +0100
References: <20001005152522.A7934@gwydion.net> <p04330100b60250647c15@[209.239.169.197]> <20001005172023.A11340@gwydion.net>
Message-ID: <20001005233710.A10727@ip215-176.cityb.net>

On Thu, Oct 05, 2000 at 05:20:24PM +0100, Silk wrote:
> If you go to 
> 
> http://www.gwydion.net/mailman/listinfo/ you will get a standard
> page of mailman-formatted html. 
> 
> If you follow a list link, eg the 'updates' link, you will see
> http://www.gwydion.net/mailman/listinfo/updates/
> which is formatted to follow the visual feel of the whole rest of
> my site.

The only way I know of to edit that html is to click the link from
the main admin page ("Edit the HTML for the public list pages").

After choosing the appropriate page, you are presented with a big text box
in which sits the html... that you can copy and paste into a program more
congenial to editing html (like vi ;-> )

I'm sure that this html also exists in some db file somewhere in the
mailman hierarchy, but I haven't taken the time to find it...



From cblist at cityb.net  Fri Oct  6 05:41:28 2000
From: cblist at cityb.net (cblist at cityb.net)
Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 23:41:28 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Another odd question
In-Reply-To: <20001005233710.A10727@ip215-176.cityb.net>; from cblist@cityb.net on Thu, Oct 05, 2000 at 11:37:10PM -0400
References: <20001005152522.A7934@gwydion.net> <p04330100b60250647c15@[209.239.169.197]> <20001005172023.A11340@gwydion.net> <20001005233710.A10727@ip215-176.cityb.net>
Message-ID: <20001005234128.B10727@ip215-176.cityb.net>

On Thu, Oct 05, 2000 at 11:37:10PM -0400, cblist at cityb.net wrote:
> On Thu, Oct 05, 2000 at 05:20:24PM +0100, Silk wrote:
> > If you go to 
> > 
> > http://www.gwydion.net/mailman/listinfo/ you will get a standard
> > page of mailman-formatted html. 
> > 
> > If you follow a list link, eg the 'updates' link, you will see
> > http://www.gwydion.net/mailman/listinfo/updates/
> > which is formatted to follow the visual feel of the whole rest of
> > my site.
> 
> The only way I know of to edit that html is to click the link from
> the main admin page ("Edit the HTML for the public list pages").
> 
> After choosing the appropriate page, you are presented with a big text box
> in which sits the html... that you can copy and paste into a program more
> congenial to editing html (like vi ;-> )
> 
> I'm sure that this html also exists in some db file somewhere in the
> mailman hierarchy, but I haven't taken the time to find it...

My bad... after checking on my mailman list, the html on those pages is not
what you are talking about... so tomorrow I'm going to hunt around inside
my mailman directory and find exactly where it is... sorry if I mislead
you...



From akapitan at facstaff.wisc.edu  Fri Oct  6 07:58:52 2000
From: akapitan at facstaff.wisc.edu (Andrea K)
Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 00:58:52 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] pending requests
In-Reply-To: <20000929160339.343E61D45D@dinsdale.python.org>
References: <20000929160339.343E61D45D@dinsdale.python.org>
Message-ID: <v04210100b60318110c63@[128.104.206.99]>

How do you get rid of pending admin requests from the command line?

If I have 1,000 spam posts being held for approval,
I don't want to step through them with the web-interface,
discarding one by one - it's too time consuming.
I want to get rid of them before legitimate requests
come through again.

(we at least stopped the spammers with ipfilter - thanks Veldhouse)

Sorry if this is an easy question.

-Andrea
--
Life - the Ultimate Video Game...Participate!
Don't just watch the demo.



From lindsey at mallorn.com  Fri Oct  6 08:40:08 2000
From: lindsey at mallorn.com (Christopher P. Lindsey)
Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 01:40:08 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] pending requests
In-Reply-To: <v04210100b60318110c63@[128.104.206.99]>; from akapitan@facstaff.wisc.edu on Fri, Oct 06, 2000 at 12:58:52AM -0500
References: <20000929160339.343E61D45D@dinsdale.python.org> <v04210100b60318110c63@[128.104.206.99]>
Message-ID: <20001006014008.D30649@mallorn.com>

> How do you get rid of pending admin requests from the command line?
> 
> If I have 1,000 spam posts being held for approval,
> I don't want to step through them with the web-interface,
> discarding one by one - it's too time consuming.
> I want to get rid of them before legitimate requests
> come through again.
> 
> (we at least stopped the spammers with ipfilter - thanks Veldhouse)
> 
> Sorry if this is an easy question.

Oddly enough, I sent you an answer to a very similar question on
Aug 26  :)

   http://www.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2000-August/006992.html

However, instead of setting m.members and m.digest_members to nothing,
set m.requests to nothing:

   > python -i $prefix/bin/withlist -l [listname]
   >>> m.requests={}
   >>> m.Save()
   >>> ^D

This will remove all pending messages for a given list.

Chris



From wengseng at lightspeed.com.sg  Fri Oct  6 10:24:24 2000
From: wengseng at lightspeed.com.sg (wengseng at lightspeed.com.sg)
Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2000 16:24:24 +0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman on a Multiple Domain Server
Message-ID: <39DD8C38.ECBA9ED3@lightspeed.com.sg>

Hi all,
	I was wandering if anybody can help me. I want
to set up mailman on a multiple domain mail server. For
example, let us say that this mail server a.com
hosts b.com, c.com and d.com. Furthermore, b.com and 
c.com both want to use mailman to for a mailing list.
	At the moment, when a list from my server
a.com sends mail. It comes from a.com. However,
I would like lists for b.com to be seen as coming
from b.com and lists in c.com to be seen as coming
from c.com.
	I am have installed mailman-2.0beta6 with
Python 1.5.2 on a Linux running kernel 2.2.16. The MTA 
is sendmail 8.11.0 and the web server is apache 1.3.6.
	Thanks in advance.

-- 
Tam Weng Seng



From yan at cardinalengineering.com  Fri Oct  6 11:38:21 2000
From: yan at cardinalengineering.com (Yan Seiner)
Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2000 05:38:21 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] looping
Message-ID: <39DD9D8D.ABCE6A74@cardinalengineering.com>

Sorry if this has been discussed before.

I just installed mailman 2.0b6 - very easy, worked pretty much "out of
the box" -so this is probably a newbie question.

One of my subscribers has a broken vacation program which generates a
new message in response to messages from the list - it does not quote
the X-BeenThere headers.

As my list consists of people with little to no computer experience, and
it is meant for broad dissemination of information, I had set the
"reply-to" to the list.

You can imagine what happened: within minutes I was flooded with "I will
be out of the office" messages.

For now I've set the "reply to" to sender, which should keep that noise
to a minimum, but I'd like to go back to replying to the list.  Is there
any way to prevent this?

I scanned through the archives and found nothing relevant in the last
few months.

--Yan



From Nigel.Metheringham at VData.co.uk  Fri Oct  6 12:06:14 2000
From: Nigel.Metheringham at VData.co.uk (Nigel Metheringham)
Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2000 11:06:14 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] looping 
In-Reply-To: Message from Yan Seiner <yan@cardinalengineering.com> 
   of "Fri, 06 Oct 2000 05:38:21 EDT." <39DD9D8D.ABCE6A74@cardinalengineering.com> 
Message-ID: <E13hUON-0002LI-00@rioja.localnet>

yan at cardinalengineering.com said:
> For now I've set the "reply to" to sender, which should keep that
> noise to a minimum, but I'd like to go back to replying to the list.
> Is there any way to prevent this? 

In short, no.  You cannot defend easily against gratuitously broken 
software.  I would personally see if there was an identifying mark in 
the headers for the mailer that guy was using and use that as a 
selector to catch incoming mail to the list.  I'd also probably just 
block the whole originating domain of that guy in my MTA, but I have a 
nasty inclination.

Maybe we should attempt to detect an unusual rate of posting from an 
address and start holding mail from them - this is fraught with 
problems and is bound to not work when it matters.  Can anyone suggest 
an algorithm that might have a chance of detecting stuff - there is 
some rate detection in the bounce handlers I believe.

	Nigel.
-- 
[ - Opinions expressed are personal and may not be shared by VData - ]
[ Nigel Metheringham                  Nigel.Metheringham at VData.co.uk ]
[ Phone: +44 1423 850000                         Fax +44 1423 858866 ]





From stefan at snobis.de  Fri Oct  6 12:17:16 2000
From: stefan at snobis.de (Stefan Nobis)
Date: 06 Oct 2000 12:17:16 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Manipulation Headers
Message-ID: <87snqap93n.fsf@520075220525-0001.dialin.t-online.de>

Is there any way to add and/or kill message headers?

At least i would like to add a "X-Mailing-List: liste at host" header for easier
filtering without adding such ugly things like a subject kludge
(i.e. "[liste]").

-- 
Until the next mail...,
Stefan.



From Nigel.Metheringham at VData.co.uk  Fri Oct  6 12:34:59 2000
From: Nigel.Metheringham at VData.co.uk (Nigel Metheringham)
Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2000 11:34:59 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Manipulation Headers 
In-Reply-To: Message from Stefan Nobis <stefan@snobis.de> 
   of "06 Oct 2000 12:17:16 +0200." <87snqap93n.fsf@520075220525-0001.dialin.t-online.de> 
Message-ID: <E13hUqB-0002Ml-00@rioja.localnet>

stefan at snobis.de said:
> At least i would like to add a "X-Mailing-List: liste at host" header for
> easier filtering without adding such ugly things like a subject kludge
> (i.e. "[liste]"). 

Also on your mail:-
  X-beenthere: mailman-users at python.org
  X-mailman-version: 2.0beta6
  List-help: <mailto:mailman-users-request at python.org?subject=help>
  List-post: <mailto:mailman-users at python.org>
  List-subscribe: <http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users>
,
	<mailto:mailman-users-request at python.org?subject=subscribe>
  List-id: Mailman mailing list management users <mailman-users.python.o
rg>
  List-unsubscribe: <http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-user
s>,
	<mailto:mailman-users-request at python.org?subject=unsubscribe>
  List-archive: <http://www.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/>

I use the first of those for mailman list filtering.  List-id: would be 
another good and now even RFC compliant one (I just prefer to have the 
regexp I match on not have a non matched part in the middle since that 
can cause the regexp engine to do lots more matching work, so a regexp 
of /^X-beenthere: mailman-users@/ is better for me.

	Nigel.
-- 
[ - Opinions expressed are personal and may not be shared by VData - ]
[ Nigel Metheringham                  Nigel.Metheringham at VData.co.uk ]
[ Phone: +44 1423 850000                         Fax +44 1423 858866 ]





From yan at cardinalengineering.com  Fri Oct  6 12:43:25 2000
From: yan at cardinalengineering.com (Yan Seiner)
Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2000 06:43:25 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] looping
References: <E13hUON-0002LI-00@rioja.localnet>
Message-ID: <39DDACCD.A9C7BF2C@cardinalengineering.com>

Well, a first cut might be to look at repeated posts on the same topic
from the same user with no intervening posts on the same topic from
other users.

A more sophisticated approach might be to run a checksum of the message
body, and if the checksums are the same from the same user dump the
message.

Stick those posts into the admin's box to decide what to do with them.

For now, though, is there a way I can dump messages based on subject?  I
could address the problem by filtering all messages with "out of the
office" in them for a start.

--Yan

Nigel Metheringham wrote:
> 
> Maybe we should attempt to detect an unusual rate of posting from an
> address and start holding mail from them - this is fraught with
> problems and is bound to not work when it matters.  Can anyone suggest
> an algorithm that might have a chance of detecting stuff - there is
> some rate detection in the bounce handlers I believe.
> 
>         Nigel.
> --
> [ - Opinions expressed are personal and may not be shared by VData - ]
> [ Nigel Metheringham                  Nigel.Metheringham at VData.co.uk ]
> [ Phone: +44 1423 850000                         Fax +44 1423 858866 ]



From R.Barrett at ftel.co.uk  Fri Oct  6 14:46:21 2000
From: R.Barrett at ftel.co.uk (Richard Barrett)
Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 13:46:21 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Subscription Reply bug in beta6`
In-Reply-To: <p04330100b602da1a0927@[209.239.169.197]>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0010052026010.23327-100000@itu.st.jyu.fi>
 <03ac01c02ef8$03706ac0$ea6810ac@psinetcs.com>
 <39DD2289.CC43DE9F@timharrison.com>
 <p04330100b602da1a0927@[209.239.169.197]>
Message-ID: <v04220802b60379bf701e@[172.16.3.104]>

If you do not want to extract from CVS then the following patch, 
which applies the same fix as the CVS change, will solve the problem:

http://sourceforge.net/patch/?func=detailpatch&patch_id=101701&group_id=103

>At 8:53 PM -0400 10/5/00, Tim Harrison wrote:
>>"Thomas T. Veldhouse" wrote:
>>
>>>  I have noticed that when a user subscribes to the list - they get an email,
>>>  if they simply reply to the email, it goes to the list at domain.com 
>>>instead of
>>  > list-request at domain.com.
>
>I believe this is a known bug, and that Barry fixed it recently in the CVS.
>--
>Chuq Von Rospach - Plaidworks Consulting (mailto:chuqui at plaidworks.com)
>Apple Mail List Gnome (mailto:chuq at apple.com)
>
>You seem a decent fellow. I hate to die.
>
>------------------------------------------------------
>Mailman-Users maillist  -  Mailman-Users at python.org
>http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users

------------------------------------------------------------------
Richard Barrett, PostPoint 30,         e-mail:r.barrett at ftel.co.uk
Fujitsu Telecommunications Europe Ltd,      tel: (44) 121 717 6337
Solihull Parkway, Birmingham Business Park, B37 7YU, England
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for
lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote."
Benjamin Franklin, 1759
------------------------------------------------------------------



From planesmart at teleteam.net  Fri Oct  6 15:40:22 2000
From: planesmart at teleteam.net (Harry Williams)
Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2000 08:40:22 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Finding the software to run a video camera
Message-ID: <39DDD645.77C972E6@teleteam.com>

I have a ATI All in wonder pro running RedHat 7.0. I have a closed
circuit video camera and I was looking for software to run the video
camera. Record, play back, store in Mpeg2 or DVD. Etc.  Does anyone know
what I can use?

Harry




From chris at gwydion.net  Fri Oct  6 15:32:51 2000
From: chris at gwydion.net (Silk)
Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 14:32:51 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Finding the software to run a video camera
In-Reply-To: <39DDD645.77C972E6@teleteam.com>; from planesmart@teleteam.net on Fri, Oct 06, 2000 at 08:40:22AM -0500
References: <39DDD645.77C972E6@teleteam.com>
Message-ID: <20001006143251.B2965@gwydion.net>

> I have a ATI All in wonder pro running RedHat 7.0. I have a closed
> circuit video camera and I was looking for software to run the video
> camera. Record, play back, store in Mpeg2 or DVD. Etc.  Does anyone know
> what I can use?

... and this has to do with teh list-server software 'Mailman' precisely
*how*?

~cHris

-- 
Chris Naden - chris at gwydion dot net
" Sometimes, home is just where you pour your coffee... "
             - Bruno Baldwin
http://www.gwydion.net/~chris/



From Nigel.Metheringham at VData.co.uk  Fri Oct  6 15:49:55 2000
From: Nigel.Metheringham at VData.co.uk (Nigel Metheringham)
Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2000 14:49:55 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Finding the software to run a video camera 
In-Reply-To: Message from Harry Williams <planesmart@teleteam.net> 
   of "Fri, 06 Oct 2000 08:40:22 CDT." <39DDD645.77C972E6@teleteam.com> 
Message-ID: <E13hXsp-0002ak-00@rioja.localnet>

planesmart at teleteam.net said:
> Does anyone know what I can use?

An appropriate mailing list!  Come on, this is *nothing* like the right 
sort of list for this type of thing.  Tried searching the Linux 
Documentation Project pages (www.linuxdoc.org), looked on the hardware 
database for your distribution or on LinuxCare's set of pages???   I 
thought not somehow!

You might find this page useful
	http://www.core.binghamton.edu/~insomnia/gatos/

Next time at least check that the list you are asking for information 
is at least slightly relevant.  Otherwise you will find yourself flamed 
considerably harder than this list has to date.

	Nigel.
-- 
[ - Opinions expressed are personal and may not be shared by VData - ]
[ Nigel Metheringham                  Nigel.Metheringham at VData.co.uk ]
[ Phone: +44 1423 850000                         Fax +44 1423 858866 ]





From e.ehlers at nikocity.de  Fri Oct  6 16:16:22 2000
From: e.ehlers at nikocity.de (Elwin Ehlers)
Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2000 14:16:22 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Finding the software to run a video camera
References: <39DDD645.77C972E6@teleteam.com>
Message-ID: <39DDDEB6.769A652C@nikocity.de>

Harry Williams wrote:
> 
> I have a ATI All in wonder pro running RedHat 7.0. I have a closed
> circuit video camera and I was looking for software to run the video
> camera. Record, play back, store in Mpeg2 or DVD. Etc.  Does anyone know
> what I can use?

xawtv

http://lug-bremen.de/v4l/

bye

Elwin



From WayneR at STROSNIDERS.com  Fri Oct  6 16:12:47 2000
From: WayneR at STROSNIDERS.com (Wayne Ringling)
Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 10:12:47 -0400 
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman final release?
Message-ID: <AD16479CE7C5D2118A6C00E0290BA93706137B@SRV-BDC-EMAIL>

Has mailman 2.0 final been released yet?  I remember a while back hearing
that when Python 2.0final was released then Mailman 2.0 would be released.

 If it has been released is there a RPM for RH 7.0? If not then would
someone make one? I checked Rawhide and they only have 2.0beta5.

Wayne

wayner at strosniders.com                                www.strosniders.com

This email is made of 100% recycled electrons.
If something can go wrong.... FIX IT!
If it's Microsoft...delete it.
There are three ways to get something done: 
   (1) Do it yourself. 
   (2) Hire someone to do it for you. 
   (3) Forbid your kids to do it. 





From chuqui at plaidworks.com  Fri Oct  6 16:48:10 2000
From: chuqui at plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach)
Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 07:48:10 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] looping
In-Reply-To: <39DD9D8D.ABCE6A74@cardinalengineering.com>
References: <39DD9D8D.ABCE6A74@cardinalengineering.com>
Message-ID: <p04330108b603955f31f4@[209.239.169.197]>

At 5:38 AM -0400 10/6/00, Yan Seiner wrote:

>As my list consists of people with little to no computer experience, and
>it is meant for broad dissemination of information, I had set the
>"reply-to" to the list.

You just ran into reason #1 why you don't do that. Sorry...

>to a minimum, but I'd like to go back to replying to the list.  Is there
>any way to prevent this?

You can shoot people who use braindamaged vacation bots. if we kill 
enough of them, the rest might get a clue.

But in all seriousness, welcome to one of the great unending battles 
of the list admin. I've been able to minimize the damage by not 
setting reply-to, and by setting my systems to trap as possible spam 
messages which include text in the footer and/or messages which have 
a subject that would be generated by replying to a digest without 
updating the subject line (the "generic subject" problem). I usually 
tweak my message footer to include text that isn't likely to show up 
in a normal message.

it also helps to teach your mailer to trap things like "out of the 
0ffice", "auto-reply" and other key mailbot phrases that you see show 
up, but the more you start building walls, the faster you start 
generating false positives, so there are tradeoffs.

Mailman's a lot less susceptible to this, but coercing reply-to the 
way you did is lighting the fuse. Sorry to hear the fuse was so 
short, but I'm not surprised it happened....

-- 
Chuq Von Rospach - Plaidworks Consulting (mailto:chuqui at plaidworks.com)
Apple Mail List Gnome (mailto:chuq at apple.com)

You seem a decent fellow. I hate to die.



From chuqui at plaidworks.com  Fri Oct  6 16:48:39 2000
From: chuqui at plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach)
Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 07:48:39 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman final release?
In-Reply-To: <AD16479CE7C5D2118A6C00E0290BA93706137B@SRV-BDC-EMAIL>
References: <AD16479CE7C5D2118A6C00E0290BA93706137B@SRV-BDC-EMAIL>
Message-ID: <p04330109b60396ba8356@[209.239.169.197]>

At 10:12 AM -0400 10/6/00, Wayne Ringling wrote:
>Has mailman 2.0 final been released yet?

No. Barry's still feverishly typing away.

-- 
Chuq Von Rospach - Plaidworks Consulting (mailto:chuqui at plaidworks.com)
Apple Mail List Gnome (mailto:chuq at apple.com)

You seem a decent fellow. I hate to die.



From stefan at snobis.de  Fri Oct  6 17:55:23 2000
From: stefan at snobis.de (Stefan Nobis)
Date: 06 Oct 2000 17:55:23 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Manipulation Headers
In-Reply-To: Nigel Metheringham's message of "Fri, 06 Oct 2000 11:34:59 +0100"
References: <E13hUqB-0002Ml-00@rioja.localnet>
Message-ID: <87n1giotg4.fsf@520075220525-0001.dialin.t-online.de>

Nigel Metheringham <Nigel.Metheringham at VData.co.uk> writes:

> > At least i would like to add a "X-Mailing-List: liste at host" header for
> 
> Also on your mail:-
>   X-beenthere: mailman-users at python.org
>   X-mailman-version: 2.0beta6
>   List-help: <mailto:mailman-users-request at python.org?subject=help>
>   List-post: <mailto:mailman-users at python.org>
>   List-subscribe: <http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users>
> ,
> 	<mailto:mailman-users-request at python.org?subject=subscribe>
>   List-id: Mailman mailing list management users <mailman-users.python.o
> rg>
>   List-unsubscribe: <http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-user
> s>,
> 	<mailto:mailman-users-request at python.org?subject=unsubscribe>
>   List-archive: <http://www.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/>

Those are not all on my mailing lists. I have X-mailman-version, X-beenthere
and List-id but not the others. How can i turn those on and off(i'm using
mailman 2.0beta5)?

-- 
Until the next mail...,
Stefan.



From marc_news at valinux.com  Fri Oct  6 23:17:03 2000
From: marc_news at valinux.com (Marc MERLIN)
Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 14:17:03 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Config errors
In-Reply-To: <39D7F244.3EEEDA55@home.com>; from richh@home.com on Sun, Oct 01, 2000 at 10:26:12PM -0400
References: <39D7F244.3EEEDA55@home.com>
Message-ID: <20001006141703.R14681@marc.merlins.org>

On Sun, Oct 01, 2000 at 10:26:12PM -0400, Rich Hall wrote:
> Why do I keep getting this????
> Traceback (innermost last):
>   File "/home/mailman/cron/qrunner", line 271, in ?
>     lock.lock(timeout=0.5)
>   File "/home/mailman/Mailman/LockFile.py", line 219, in lock
>     self.__write()
>   File "/home/mailman/Mailman/LockFile.py", line 346, in __write
>     fp = open(self.__tmpfname, 'w')
> IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied:
> '/home/mailman/locks/qrunner.lock.reality-studios.com.1124'

If you are using linux with the restricted hard link patch, try this:
http://www.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2000-October/007822.html

Marc
-- 
Microsoft is to software what McDonalds is to gourmet cooking
 
Home page: http://marc.merlins.org/ (friendly to non IE browsers)
Finger marc_f at merlins.org for PGP key and other contact information



From harrison at timharrison.com  Sat Oct  7 07:14:46 2000
From: harrison at timharrison.com (Tim Harrison)
Date: Sat, 07 Oct 2000 01:14:46 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] fixing the reply-to bug.
Message-ID: <39DEB146.17AF8975@timharrison.com>

Hi folks.

I applied the patch to fix the reply-to bug, and found that it created
another headache for me.

I sent a test message to my list, and found that no matter what I set
the explicit reply-to address to, the reply-to always ends up being my
own address.  

Anyone else found this, or know of a way to fix it?

-- 


Tim Harrison
Network Engineer
harrison at timharrison.com
http://www.networklevel.com/



From shane at electricmonks.net  Sun Oct  8 00:24:58 2000
From: shane at electricmonks.net (Shane Chen)
Date: Sat, 7 Oct 2000 15:24:58 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and THTTPD - possible?
Message-ID: <009c01c030ad$6d335510$3264a8c0@win2000>

Hi everyone,

I'm running thttpd from acme.com as my web server and I'd like to know if it's
possible to use mailman?  I've download and complied the 2.0beta6 and now I'm a
bit stuck as to what to do next.

Please help.

Thanks,
Shane




From stevem at emji.net  Mon Oct  9 03:43:32 2000
From: stevem at emji.net (Steve McConnell)
Date: Sun, 08 Oct 2000 21:43:32 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] removing entire domain
Message-ID: <378803294.971041412@sm98home.emji.net>

is it possible to remove an entire domain from a list?

ie: *@domain.com

or something of that nature?



Steve McConnell
EMJI
919.303.3217:126
888-258-8959




From marc_news at valinux.com  Mon Oct  9 09:16:56 2000
From: marc_news at valinux.com (Marc MERLIN)
Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 00:16:56 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] removing entire domain
In-Reply-To: <378803294.971041412@sm98home.emji.net>; from stevem@emji.net on Sun, Oct 08, 2000 at 09:43:32PM -0400
References: <378803294.971041412@sm98home.emji.net>
Message-ID: <20001009001656.B13933@marc.merlins.org>

On Sun, Oct 08, 2000 at 09:43:32PM -0400, Steve McConnell wrote:
> is it possible to remove an entire domain from a list?
> 
> ie: *@domain.com
> 
> or something of that nature?

list_members list | grep domain | remove_members -f - list

Marc
-- 
Microsoft is to software what McDonalds is to gourmet cooking
 
Home page: http://marc.merlins.org/
Finger marc_f at merlins.org for PGP key



From huimin.lim at i-dns.net  Mon Oct  9 10:05:52 2000
From: huimin.lim at i-dns.net (Lim Hui Min)
Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 16:05:52 +0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] qrunner locks? 
Message-ID: <008b01c031c7$beadfba0$b700a8c0@idns.net>

Dear all,

I am using FreeBSD 4.0 and mailman-2.0b6
the problem of qrunner got stuck halfway reoccur after i upgraded from 2.0b5
the qrunner log shows

Could not acquire qrunner lock

if a mesg size bigger than 40kb is sent to the list. the list will stop
functioning until the lock files and the process is cleared.

please refer to the url for similar problem that occur in 2.0b5.

http://www.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2000-September/007257.html

does anyone got a fix for this?


HM



At Wed, 4 Oct 2000 10:09:03 -0700, Chuq Von Rospach wrote:
>At 12:47 PM -0400 10/4/00, Chris Hedemark wrote:
>>You are not alone.  I have Mailman 2.0beta6 on Red Hat 6.2.  Check this
out:

>The answer is:

>it depends. If qrunner is already running when cron spawns qrunner,
>the new one can't get the lock and exits. that's a feature.

>If qrunner isn't running and it can't get a lock, that's a problem,
>usually permission, sometimes a leftover lock.

>So you need to go into the system and see what it's doing at the
>time. If you see the log entry hit, try "ps -ef | grep mailman" and
>see what's going on with mailman. And check your ~mailman/locks
>directory for leftover lock files and the like.

>And make sure check_perms runs clean.

>--
>Chuq Von Rospach - Plaidworks Consulting (mailto:chuqui at plaidworks.com)
>Apple Mail List Gnome (mailto:chuq at apple.com)

>You seem a decent fellow. I hate to die.







From gordong at babcockbrown.com  Mon Oct  9 17:30:56 2000
From: gordong at babcockbrown.com (Gordon Grant)
Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 15:30:56 GMT
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and MIME attachments
Message-ID: <20001009.15305600@etna.eu.babcockbrown.com>

Hi,

I've just started to use Mailman for some of babcockbrown.com's internal 
mailing lists.  Is there any way to get Mailman archives (Pipermail) to 
allow downloading of MIME attachments from archived mail (via a 
web-interface), instead of displaying the plain text of the email?

I've tried a few web-searches to see if the functionality exists, either 
within Mailman or another packaage, but so far I've drawn a blank...

Best Regards

Gordon Grant
Systems Administrator
Babcock & Brown



From vl at ez.no  Mon Oct  9 17:46:49 2000
From: vl at ez.no (Vidar Langseid)
Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 17:46:49 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] looping 
In-Reply-To: <E13hUON-0002LI-00@rioja.localnet>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0010091518210.1517-100000@rebel.ez.no>

What about introducing mail-quotas. That may limit the problem (or at
last the impact).

Besides, beeing able to limit max postings per user a day would be a
nice feature.


Vidar


On Fri, 6 Oct 2000, Nigel Metheringham wrote:

> 
> yan at cardinalengineering.com said:
> > For now I've set the "reply to" to sender, which should keep that
> > noise to a minimum, but I'd like to go back to replying to the list.
> > Is there any way to prevent this? 
> 
> In short, no.  You cannot defend easily against gratuitously broken 
> software.  I would personally see if there was an identifying mark in 
> the headers for the mailer that guy was using and use that as a 
> selector to catch incoming mail to the list.  I'd also probably just 
> block the whole originating domain of that guy in my MTA, but I have a 
> nasty inclination.
> 
> Maybe we should attempt to detect an unusual rate of posting from an 
> address and start holding mail from them - this is fraught with 
> problems and is bound to not work when it matters.  Can anyone suggest 
> an algorithm that might have a chance of detecting stuff - there is 
> some rate detection in the bounce handlers I believe.
> 
> 	Nigel.
> 





From chuqui at plaidworks.com  Mon Oct  9 18:12:42 2000
From: chuqui at plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach)
Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 09:12:42 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and MIME attachments
In-Reply-To: <20001009.15305600@etna.eu.babcockbrown.com>
References: <20001009.15305600@etna.eu.babcockbrown.com>
Message-ID: <p04330100b6079ee63891@[209.239.169.197]>

At 3:30 PM +0000 10/9/00, Gordon Grant wrote:
>Is there any way to get Mailman archives (Pipermail) to
>allow downloading of MIME attachments from archived mail (via a
>web-interface), instead of displaying the plain text of the email?

not at this time. If you need that, I suggest you switch your 
archives to MHonarc.

-- 
Chuq Von Rospach - Plaidworks Consulting (mailto:chuqui at plaidworks.com)
Apple Mail List Gnome (mailto:chuq at apple.com)

You seem a decent fellow. I hate to die.



From bleto at stargate.net  Mon Oct  9 22:37:07 2000
From: bleto at stargate.net (Bennie Leto)
Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 13:37:07 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Disabling passwords
Message-ID: <EIEIKEFEGFCPLJMIJKFHGELKCAAA.bleto@stargate.net>

Is there a way to have mailman disable mailing list passwords Disabling
passwords?

Thanks,
-Ben
www.chemlab.org




From chuqui at plaidworks.com  Mon Oct  9 19:48:08 2000
From: chuqui at plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach)
Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 10:48:08 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Disabling passwords
In-Reply-To: <EIEIKEFEGFCPLJMIJKFHGELKCAAA.bleto@stargate.net>
References: <EIEIKEFEGFCPLJMIJKFHGELKCAAA.bleto@stargate.net>
Message-ID: <p04330105b607b55224c4@[17.216.27.227]>

At 1:37 PM -0700 10/9/00, Bennie Leto wrote:
>Is there a way to have mailman disable mailing list passwords Disabling
>passwords?

Not at this time.

-- 
Chuq Von Rospach - Plaidworks Consulting (mailto:chuqui at plaidworks.com)
Apple Mail List Gnome (mailto:chuq at apple.com)

You seem a decent fellow. I hate to die.



From nico at hightension.net  Mon Oct  9 19:59:42 2000
From: nico at hightension.net (Nico de Louwere)
Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 19:59:42 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman-Users -- confirmation of subscription -- request
Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20001009195845.02dd9c30@pop.vuurwerk.nl>

confirm 842645




From nhruby at arches.uga.edu  Mon Oct  9 20:49:53 2000
From: nhruby at arches.uga.edu (nathan r. hruby)
Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 14:49:53 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archiving Issues
Message-ID: <Pine.A41.4.10.10010091441110.106980-100000@archa14.cc.uga.edu>

Hey..

So for some reason Hypermail stopped archving requests the other day and I
can't figure out why.. 

Here's the error from logs/error

Oct 09 13:04:22 2000 post: Traceback (innermost last):
post:   File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/Archiver.py", line 214, in ArchiveMail
post:     h.close()
post:   File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/HyperArch.py", line 906, in close
post:     self.update_dirty_archives()# Update all changed archives
post:   File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/HyperArch.py", line 871, in update_dirty_archives
post:     self.update_archive(i)
post:   File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/pipermail.py", line 330, in update_archive
post:     self.write_index_header()
post:   File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/HyperArch.py", line 738, in write_index_header
post:     self.updateThreadedIndex()
post:   File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/pipermail.py", line 269, in updateThreadedIndex
post:     self.database.setThreadKey(self.archive, article.threadKey+'\000'+article.msgid, msgid)
post:   File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/HyperDatabase.py", line 256, in setThreadKey
post:     self.threadIndex[key]=msgid
post:   File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/HyperDatabase.py", line 144, in __setitem__
post:     self.current_index = self.sorted.index(current_item)
post: ValueError: list.index(x): x not in list
 
It looks like the archive database is fried (true?  I don't know python
at all)  How does one fix it?

System: redhat-6.0/i386 (with updates)
        python-1.5.1
        mailman-1.0-rc3 (I know I know.. waiting for 2.0-FINAL, gonna
                         rebuild box anyway, yadda yadda..)

-n
-- 
........
nathan hruby
Webmaster: UGA Department of Drama and Theatre
Project Maintainer: phpSlash, Carousel
nhruby at arches.uga.edu
........




From das.zig at gmx.net  Mon Oct  9 21:10:39 2000
From: das.zig at gmx.net (Thorsten Ziegler)
Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 21:10:39 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem using aliases
Message-ID: <20001009211039.A22507@HeLL.ghb.fh-furtwangen.de>

Hi...

im encountering problems using one email-Adress to be forwarded to the
actual mailing list.
Lets say real at mailinglist.net is the eMailAdress of the Mailman-System.
Now i've got an address redirect at other.do which forwards all eMail to
real at mailinglist.net where every post is held for administrator approval
due to implicit destination.
Now i've tried to add the address redirect at other.do at "Alias names.."
in the Privacy menu... as there is the comment (regexps) i've tried to
enter:
redirect\@other.do
i've also tried to add the hole address standalone and the address
compined with an To: Header field..
But nothing works... may someone help me?

Greetz, ZiG
-- 
Thorsten Ziegler     Grosshausberg 9-4-3
78120 Furtwangen     Black Forest, Germany
     http://www.zweimeter.de
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From claw at kanga.nu  Mon Oct  9 21:40:41 2000
From: claw at kanga.nu (J C Lawrence)
Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 12:40:41 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and MIME attachments 
In-Reply-To: Message from Gordon Grant <gordong@babcockbrown.com> 
   of "Mon, 09 Oct 2000 15:30:56 GMT." <20001009.15305600@etna.eu.babcockbrown.com> 
References: <20001009.15305600@etna.eu.babcockbrown.com> 
Message-ID: <17020.971120441@kanga.nu>

On Mon, 09 Oct 2000 15:30:56 GMT 
Gordon Grant <gordong at babcockbrown.com> wrote:

> I've just started to use Mailman for some of babcockbrown.com's
> internal mailing lists.  Is there any way to get Mailman archives
> (Pipermail) to allow downloading of MIME attachments from archived
> mail (via a web-interface), instead of displaying the plain text
> of the email?

No.

> I've tried a few web-searches to see if the functionality exists,
> either within Mailman or another packaage, but so far I've drawn a
> blank...

There are other tools you can use.  I recommend (and use) MHonArc
(http://www.mhonarc.org/).  You can see what I've done with it here:

and the undocumented and non-trivial setup that creates that here:

  ftp://ftp.kanga.nu/pub/Kanga.Nu/WebArchives/

Or the older and simpler RCs here:

  ftp://ftp.kanga.nu/pub/Kanga.Nu/WebArchives.old/

Which have a similar look'n'feel, but don't support the various PHP
and PHPLib based clevers my new stuff does.

You can see examples of archived MIME messages here:

  http://www.kanga.nu/archives/MUD-Dev-L/1998Q2/msg00854.php
  http://www.kanga.nu/archives/MUD-Dev-L/1998Q2/msg00893.php
  http://www.kanga.nu/archives/MUD-Dev-L/1998Q2/msg01256.php
  http://www.kanga.nu/archives/MUD-Dev-L/2000Q3/msg00661.php

-- 
J C Lawrence                                 Home: claw at kanga.nu
---------(*)                               Other: coder at kanga.nu
http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/        Keys etc: finger claw at kanga.nu
--=| A man is as sane as he is dangerous to his environment |=--



From dgrantham at ptc.com  Mon Oct  9 21:47:32 2000
From: dgrantham at ptc.com (Dale M. Grantham)
Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 14:47:32 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Searching the Archives
Message-ID: <39E220D3.91246EF3@ptc.com>

How is the best way to search archives?  I'm looking for the ability to do
text-based searches on the emails archived.

Dale.
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From steiny at infopoint.com  Mon Oct  9 22:10:54 2000
From: steiny at infopoint.com (Don Steiny)
Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 13:10:54 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] smtp-failures: connect requires exactly 1 argument; 2 given
Message-ID: <200010092010.e99KAtO09277@infopoint.infopoint.com>

Hi,

	I have been going through the faqs and have not found my problem.
I am sorry if it is there and I did not see it.

	I am using Python-1.6 on Solaris 7 with sendmail 8.11.0 

	I do not get any errors logged to syslog, and the admin pages come
up fine.  However, no mail is sent.   When I check in the log directory 
there is a logfile called smtp-failures.   In the file I have the following
message:

Oct 9 12:50:25 2000 TrySMPTDelivery: To steiny at infopoint.com
Oct 9 12:50:25 2000 TrySMPTDelivery:    exceptions.TypeError / connect requires exactly 1 argument; 2 given (dequeued)

	Suggestions?  
	
-Don
-- 
Don Steiny - InfoPoint, Inc. - www.infopoint.com 
  125 Mission St #3 - Santa Cruz, CA 95060 - 831.471.1671 - fax: 831.471.1670
     Reinventing business through the power of the Internet



From claw at kanga.nu  Mon Oct  9 22:13:22 2000
From: claw at kanga.nu (J C Lawrence)
Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 13:13:22 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Searching the Archives 
In-Reply-To: Message from "Dale M. Grantham" <dgrantham@ptc.com> 
   of "Mon, 09 Oct 2000 14:47:32 CDT." <39E220D3.91246EF3@ptc.com> 
References: <39E220D3.91246EF3@ptc.com> 
Message-ID: <19371.971122402@kanga.nu>

On Mon, 09 Oct 2000 14:47:32 -0500 
Dale M Grantham <dgrantham at ptc.com> wrote:

> How is the best way to search archives?  I'm looking for the
> ability to do text-based searches on the emails archived.

Best choice is really dependant on how large your archives are, what 
search features you wish to support, and what external system
supports you want to devote to this.  I use UdmSearch:

  http://www.kanga.nu/search/

HT//Dig, and SWISH++ are other reasonable options (the former
indexing, the latter runtime).

-- 
J C Lawrence                                 Home: claw at kanga.nu
---------(*)                               Other: coder at kanga.nu
http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/        Keys etc: finger claw at kanga.nu
--=| A man is as sane as he is dangerous to his environment |=--



From chuqui at plaidworks.com  Mon Oct  9 22:17:10 2000
From: chuqui at plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach)
Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 13:17:10 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] smtp-failures: connect requires exactly 1
 argument; 2 given
In-Reply-To: <200010092010.e99KAtO09277@infopoint.infopoint.com>
References: <200010092010.e99KAtO09277@infopoint.infopoint.com>
Message-ID: <p04330108b607d7f4d67d@[209.239.169.197]>

>	I have been going through the faqs and have not found my problem.
>I am sorry if it is there and I did not see it.
>
>	I am using Python-1.6 on Solaris 7 with sendmail 8.11.0

what version of mailman? I've checked the source to Mailman 2.0, and 
don't see that error string in it. Is this a Mailman 1.x install?

-- 
Chuq Von Rospach - Plaidworks Consulting (mailto:chuqui at plaidworks.com)
Apple Mail List Gnome (mailto:chuq at apple.com)

You seem a decent fellow. I hate to die.



From yan at cardinalengineering.com  Mon Oct  9 22:34:22 2000
From: yan at cardinalengineering.com (Yan Seiner)
Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 16:34:22 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Searching the Archives
References: <39E220D3.91246EF3@ptc.com> <19371.971122402@kanga.nu>
Message-ID: <39E22BCE.A089296D@cardinalengineering.com>

Is there a HOW-TO or a go-by somewhere?  I browsed the site earlier
today; it sounds like what I need but I don't want to re-invent the
wheel if I don't have to.

I'm guessing as a minimum I'd ahve to patch the mailman code that
generates the archive pages to link to the search function.  Then
there's the look and feel issue....  And of course it would be great to
simply have a "search the archives" box on the archive page....

--Yan

J C Lawrence wrote:
> 
> On Mon, 09 Oct 2000 14:47:32 -0500
> Dale M Grantham <dgrantham at ptc.com> wrote:
> 
> > How is the best way to search archives?  I'm looking for the
> > ability to do text-based searches on the emails archived.
> 
> Best choice is really dependant on how large your archives are, what
> search features you wish to support, and what external system
> supports you want to devote to this.  I use UdmSearch:
> 
>   http://www.kanga.nu/search/
> 
> HT//Dig, and SWISH++ are other reasonable options (the former
> indexing, the latter runtime).
> 
> --
> J C Lawrence                                 Home: claw at kanga.nu
> ---------(*)                               Other: coder at kanga.nu
> http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/        Keys etc: finger claw at kanga.nu
> --=| A man is as sane as he is dangerous to his environment |=--
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users maillist  -  Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users



From steiny at infopoint.com  Mon Oct  9 23:30:31 2000
From: steiny at infopoint.com (Don Steiny)
Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 14:30:31 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Success, upgrading to 2.0 fixed one problem
Message-ID: <200010092130.e99LUWn17013@infopoint.infopoint.com>

Hi,

	Ok, it is sending mail now, but in the confirmation message I get,
I notice that the "Reply-To: " is set to test and I can see that the
mail is getting delivered to the "test" alias and not the "test-admin" alias
and that I am not getting added as a user.   

>From test-admin at infopoint.com  Mon Oct  9 17:13:39 2000
Received: from infopoint.com (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by infopoint.infopoint.com (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id e99LDbB16306
	for <steiny at infopoint.com>; Mon, 9 Oct 2000 17:13:37 -0400 (EDT)
Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 17:13:37 -0400 (EDT)
Message-Id: <200010092113.e99LDbB16306 at infopoint.infopoint.com>
Subject: Test -- confirmation of subscription -- request 559465
From: test-request at infopoint.com
To: steiny at infopoint.com
X-Ack: no
Sender: test-admin at infopoint.com
Errors-To: test-admin at infopoint.com
X-BeenThere: test at infopoint.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta6
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: test at infopoint.com
List-Help: <mailto:test-request at infopoint.com?subject=help>
List-Post: <mailto:test at infopoint.com>
List-Subscribe: <../listinfo/test>, <mailto:test-request at infopoint.com?subject=subscribe>
List-Id: This is a test <test.infopoint.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <../listinfo/test>, <mailto:test-request at infopoint.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: http://www.infopoint.com/pipermail/test/
Status: ORr

Test -- confirmation of subscription -- request 559465

We have received a request from 165.227.26.18 for subscription of your
email address, <steiny at infopoint.com>, to the test at infopoint.com
mailing list.  To confirm the request, please send a message to
test-request at infopoint.com, and either:

- maintain the subject line as is (the reply's additional "Re:" is
ok),

- or include the following line - and only the following line - in the
message body: 

confirm 559465

(Simply sending a 'reply' to this message should work from most email
interfaces, since that usually leaves the subject line in the right
form.)

If you do not wish to subscribe to this list, please simply disregard
this message.  Send questions to test-admin at infopoint.com.



-- 
Don Steiny - InfoPoint, Inc. - www.infopoint.com 
  125 Mission St #3 - Santa Cruz, CA 95060 - 831.471.1671 - fax: 831.471.1670
     Reinventing business through the power of the Internet



From William.P.McGonigle at artoo.hitchcock.org  Mon Oct  9 23:32:39 2000
From: William.P.McGonigle at artoo.hitchcock.org (William P. McGonigle)
Date: 09 Oct 2000 17:32:39 EDT
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Authentication Failed on install/test list admin
Message-ID: <152439@anoat.hitchcock.org.artoo.hitchcock.org>

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From chuqui at plaidworks.com  Mon Oct  9 23:38:34 2000
From: chuqui at plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach)
Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 14:38:34 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Success, upgrading to 2.0 fixed one
 problem
In-Reply-To: <200010092130.e99LUWn17013@infopoint.infopoint.com>
References: <200010092130.e99LUWn17013@infopoint.infopoint.com>
Message-ID: <p04330114b607ea0414ad@[209.239.169.197]>

>	Ok, it is sending mail now, but in the confirmation message I get,
>I notice that the "Reply-To: " is set to test and I can see that the
>mail is getting delivered to the "test" alias and not the "test-admin" alias
>and that I am not getting added as a user.

If I remember, this is a known bug. I thought it was fixed in b6. 
right now, I can't get my IE to cooperate with Sourceforge, so it's 
hard to go snooping.

Barry, isn't this fixed? is it just in the CVS?
-- 
Chuq Von Rospach - Plaidworks Consulting (mailto:chuqui at plaidworks.com)
Apple Mail List Gnome (mailto:chuq at apple.com)

You seem a decent fellow. I hate to die.



From tim at maths.tcd.ie  Tue Oct 10 00:14:25 2000
From: tim at maths.tcd.ie (tim at maths.tcd.ie)
Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 23:14:25 +0100 (BST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Reading in mailing lists
Message-ID: <200010092314.aa93969@boole.maths.tcd.ie>

I have a number of mailing lists in files.
(They are actually majordomo lists,
which I am thinking of converting to mailman.)

Is there some simple way of updating a mailman list
from such a file?

Also, can a mailman list have entries of the form

Timothy Murphy <tim at maths.tcd.ie>

or must each entry be just the email address?





From ashley at pcraft.com  Tue Oct 10 00:33:49 2000
From: ashley at pcraft.com (Ashley M. Kirchner)
Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 16:33:49 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Reading in mailing lists
References: <200010092314.aa93969@boole.maths.tcd.ie>
Message-ID: <39E247CD.17F8B3C1@pcraft.com>

tim at maths.tcd.ie wrote:

> (They are actually majordomo lists,
> which I am thinking of converting to mailman.)
> Is there some simple way of updating a mailman list
> from such a file?

    You can feed it through the mass subscribe page (you'd have to log
in as the list admin).


> Also, can a mailman list have entries of the form
> Timothy Murphy <tim at maths.tcd.ie>
> or must each entry be just the email address?

    This, I do not know.

    AMK4

--
W |
  |  I haven't lost my mind; it's backed up on tape somewhere.
  |____________________________________________________________________
  ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  Ashley M. Kirchner <mailto:ashley at pcraft.com>   .   303.442.6410 x130
  SysAdmin / Websmith                           .     800.441.3873 x130
  Photo Craft Laboratories, Inc.             .        eFax 248.671.0909
  http://www.pcraft.com                  .         3550 Arapahoe Ave #6
  .................. .  .  .     .               Boulder, CO 80303, USA





From chuqui at plaidworks.com  Tue Oct 10 00:19:04 2000
From: chuqui at plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach)
Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 15:19:04 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Reading in mailing lists
In-Reply-To: <200010092314.aa93969@boole.maths.tcd.ie>
References: <200010092314.aa93969@boole.maths.tcd.ie>
Message-ID: <p04330116b607f4b1969c@[209.239.169.197]>

At 11:14 PM +0100 10/9/00, tim at maths.tcd.ie wrote:
>I have a number of mailing lists in files.
>(They are actually majordomo lists,
>which I am thinking of converting to mailman.)
>
>Is there some simple way of updating a mailman list
>from such a file?

sure. Look at bin/add_members in the mailman directories. You can 
load in existing subscriber lists without a problem.

>Also, can a mailman list have entries of the form
>
>Timothy Murphy <tim at maths.tcd.ie>
>
>or must each entry be just the email address?

Just the e-mail address.

-- 
Chuq Von Rospach - Plaidworks Consulting (mailto:chuqui at plaidworks.com)
Apple Mail List Gnome (mailto:chuq at apple.com)

You seem a decent fellow. I hate to die.



From satyap at satya.virtualave.net  Mon Oct  9 23:08:18 2000
From: satyap at satya.virtualave.net (Satya)
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 02:38:18 +0530 (IST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] smtp-failures: connect requires exactly 1
 argument; 2 given
In-Reply-To: <200010092010.e99KAtO09277@infopoint.infopoint.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0010100237010.635-100000@hal9k.myip.org>

On Oct 9, 2000 at 13:10, Don Steiny wrote:

>	I am using Python-1.6 on Solaris 7 with sendmail 8.11.0 

>Oct 9 12:50:25 2000 TrySMPTDelivery:  exceptions.TypeError / connect
>requires exactly 1 argument; 2 given (dequeued)

I was getting a similar error using Python 1.5.1 on Redhat, upgrading to
1.5.2 made it go away. But you're on 1.6... 

That *is* a Python syntax error, though. I think.

-- 
Satya. <URL:http://satya.virtualave.net/>
US-bound grad students! For pre-apps, see <URL:http://quickapps.cjb.net/>
Send the black helicopters.




From Dan.Mick at West.Sun.COM  Tue Oct 10 02:52:36 2000
From: Dan.Mick at West.Sun.COM (Dan Mick)
Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 17:52:36 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] smtp-failures: connect requires exactly 1 argument; 2 given
Message-ID: <200010100051.RAA21491@utopia.west.sun.com>

> On Oct 9, 2000 at 13:10, Don Steiny wrote:
> 
> >	I am using Python-1.6 on Solaris 7 with sendmail 8.11.0 
> 
> >Oct 9 12:50:25 2000 TrySMPTDelivery:  exceptions.TypeError / connect
> >requires exactly 1 argument; 2 given (dequeued)
> 
> I was getting a similar error using Python 1.5.1 on Redhat, upgrading to
> 1.5.2 made it go away. But you're on 1.6... 
> 
> That *is* a Python syntax error, though. I think.

Yeah, connect() was ill-defined in Python 1.5; they've changed it to
be more-correct in later Pythons.  But this problem was fixed
in Mailman some time ago; I suspect you must be running an earlier
version.




From satyap at satya.virtualave.net  Tue Oct 10 03:16:36 2000
From: satyap at satya.virtualave.net (Satya)
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 06:46:36 +0530 (IST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] smtp-failures: connect requires exactly 1
 argument; 2 given
In-Reply-To: <200010100051.RAA21491@utopia.west.sun.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0010100645140.2224-100000@hal9k.myip.org>

On Oct 9, 2000 at 17:52, Dan Mick wrote:

>Yeah, connect() was ill-defined in Python 1.5; they've changed it to
>be more-correct in later Pythons.  But this problem was fixed
>in Mailman some time ago; I suspect you must be running an earlier
>version.

Right. 1.x.

Then again, my error was in some string-related function, not SMTP. It
turned out to be well-documented. The fix was to upgrade Python :-)

-- 
Satya. <URL:http://satya.virtualave.net/>
US-bound grad students! For pre-apps, see <URL:http://quickapps.cjb.net/>
Did you know Linux stands for Linux Is Not UniX ?




From mbrennen at fni.com  Tue Oct 10 08:38:48 2000
From: mbrennen at fni.com (Michael Brennen)
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 01:38:48 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Hanging python cgi scripts on b6
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0010100041520.32478-100000@henry.fni.com>

I've installed b6 on a new mandrake 7.1 install, running postfix;  
python 1.5.2 is installed.  I've installed and configured apache
1.3.12 as the web server on this machine, running as nobody.nobody.

I built mailman with the following:

./configure \
        --with-cgi-gid=nobody \
        --with-mail-gid=mailman \
        --prefix=/some/path/mailman \
        --exec-prefix=/some/path/mailman

I'm now tryin to admin my test list, and the python cgi script hangs
forever.  The following is running as user nobody:

/usr/bin/python -S /some/path/mailman/scripts/driver admin

Reinstalling --with-cgi-gid=mailman, I get the following, where 99
is the numeric value of the 'nobody' user; this would be expected.

Failure to exec script. WANTED gid 504, GOT gid 99.  (Reconfigure to take 99?)

So close, yet so far...

I've run Web servers for years, and written tens of thousands of
line of php and perl, but I know absolutely nothing of python and
don't know where to begin to trace this.  I find nothing logged in
the expected syslog or mail logs; mailman's ~/logs/error shows
nothing. A scan of the list archives didn't reveal anything, hence
this post.  TIA...

   -- Michael







From Dan.Mick at West.Sun.COM  Tue Oct 10 08:45:48 2000
From: Dan.Mick at West.Sun.COM (Dan Mick)
Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 23:45:48 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Hanging python cgi scripts on b6
Message-ID: <200010100644.XAA27557@utopia.west.sun.com>

> I'm now tryin to admin my test list, and the python cgi script hangs
> forever.  The following is running as user nobody:
> 
> /usr/bin/python -S /some/path/mailman/scripts/driver admin

Can you arrange to strace it and find out what it's doing?

If not, check the ~mailman/locks directory; when the list stuff
is quiescent, it should be empty; maybe there's a dead lock
there.




From R.Barrett at ftel.co.uk  Tue Oct 10 09:18:39 2000
From: R.Barrett at ftel.co.uk (Richard Barrett)
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 08:18:39 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Success, upgrading to 2.0 fixed one  problem
In-Reply-To: <p04330114b607ea0414ad@[209.239.169.197]>
References: <200010092130.e99LUWn17013@infopoint.infopoint.com>
 <p04330114b607ea0414ad@[209.239.169.197]>
Message-ID: <v04220802b60872d50f8c@[213.123.41.164]>

This problem is fixed in CVS. If you do not want to extract from CVS 
then the following patch, which applies the same fix as the CVS 
change, will solve the problem:

http://sourceforge.net/patch/?func=detailpatch&patch_id=101701&group_id=103

>>	Ok, it is sending mail now, but in the confirmation message I get,
>>I notice that the "Reply-To: " is set to test and I can see that the
>>mail is getting delivered to the "test" alias and not the "test-admin" alias
>>and that I am not getting added as a user.
>
>If I remember, this is a known bug. I thought it was fixed in b6. 
>right now, I can't get my IE to cooperate with Sourceforge, so it's 
>hard to go snooping.
>
>Barry, isn't this fixed? is it just in the CVS?
>--
>Chuq Von Rospach - Plaidworks Consulting (mailto:chuqui at plaidworks.com)
>Apple Mail List Gnome (mailto:chuq at apple.com)
>
>You seem a decent fellow. I hate to die.
>
>------------------------------------------------------
>Mailman-Users maillist  -  Mailman-Users at python.org
>http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users

------------------------------------------------------------------
Richard Barrett, PostPoint 30,         e-mail:r.barrett at ftel.co.uk
Fujitsu Telecommunications Europe Ltd,      tel: (44) 121 717 6337
Solihull Parkway, Birmingham Business Park, B37 7YU, England
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for
lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote."
Benjamin Franklin, 1759
------------------------------------------------------------------



From huimin.lim at i-dns.net  Tue Oct 10 11:36:54 2000
From: huimin.lim at i-dns.net (Lim Hui Min)
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 17:36:54 +0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Hanging python cgi scripts on b6
References: <200010100644.XAA27557@utopia.west.sun.com>
Message-ID: <00fa01c0329d$a08997c0$b700a8c0@idns.net>

might be irrelevant but maybe you can try upgrading your python to 2.0.
it solve the lock file problem of qrunner for me


HM

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Dan Mick" <Dan.Mick at West.Sun.COM>
To: <mailman-users at python.org>; <mbrennen at fni.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2000 2:45 PM
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Hanging python cgi scripts on b6


> 
> > I'm now tryin to admin my test list, and the python cgi script hangs
> > forever.  The following is running as user nobody:
> > 
> > /usr/bin/python -S /some/path/mailman/scripts/driver admin
> 
> Can you arrange to strace it and find out what it's doing?
> 
> If not, check the ~mailman/locks directory; when the list stuff
> is quiescent, it should be empty; maybe there's a dead lock
> there.
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users maillist  -  Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users




From William.P.McGonigle at artoo.hitchcock.org  Tue Oct 10 14:25:01 2000
From: William.P.McGonigle at artoo.hitchcock.org (William P. McGonigle)
Date: 10 Oct 2000 08:25:01 EDT
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Authentication Failed on install/test list admin
Message-ID: <152701@anoat.hitchcock.org.artoo.hitchcock.org>

Yeah, I went off-proxy, opened cookies wide-up, and tried netscape, mozilla and opera(based on a anecdote in the archive).

Thanks,
-Bill

--- You wrote:
Do you have your browser set to accept cookies?

At 05:32 PM 10/09/2000 EDT, William P. McGonigle wrote:
>
>I've just installed mailman (Redhat Linux 6.2) and am getting
Authentication Failed errors trying to login as admin on the test list
(using the password I just chose).  There aren't any error messages in
syslog, mailman's error log or apache's error log.  
>
>Any hints?
>
>Thanks,
>-Bill
>
>------------------------------------------------------ Mailman-Users
maillist  -  Mailman-Users at python.org
http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
>

--- end of quote ---



From f.sileno at agora.it  Tue Oct 10 14:53:45 2000
From: f.sileno at agora.it (Cthulhu)
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 14:53:45 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Remote subcription form
Message-ID: <20001010145345.C9577@asistemi.stm.it>

Hi!

I'm tring to put the registration form on another web site, on a
different machine.

But even after the little hack needed on the ACTION tag (I'm working
on the interpreted info page), it doesn't seems to work: main server
always complain about wrong email/password.

I suppose that the "subscribe" script is not willing to accept request
beside it's main server... is there some easy way to let it check
a list of REFERER_HOST?

	patchingly,
	   Cthulhu

-- 
   Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu http://www.rlyeh.it/ wgah'nagl fhtgan!
			 <f.sileno at agora.it>  




From dmunoz at meyersgroup.com  Tue Oct 10 19:16:48 2000
From: dmunoz at meyersgroup.com (Douglas Munoz)
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 10:16:48 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] cron job problems
Message-ID: <NEBBILDLMKELNOGMJOLEAEEFCKAA.dmunoz@meyersgroup.com>

I have a cron job in /var/spool/cron called mailman, which is using paths
which do not exist. I know the correct paths, but do not know how to re-run
the job to reflect the directory changes. The job says to not edit it
directly, so I am stuck. Any ideas?

Thanks

=Doug=




From chuqui at plaidworks.com  Tue Oct 10 19:23:05 2000
From: chuqui at plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach)
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 10:23:05 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] cron job problems
In-Reply-To: <NEBBILDLMKELNOGMJOLEAEEFCKAA.dmunoz@meyersgroup.com>
References: <NEBBILDLMKELNOGMJOLEAEEFCKAA.dmunoz@meyersgroup.com>
Message-ID: <p04330101b60900ee4e69@[17.216.27.227]>

At 10:16 AM -0700 10/10/00, Douglas Munoz wrote:
>I have a cron job in /var/spool/cron called mailman, which is using paths
>which do not exist. I know the correct paths, but do not know how to re-run
>the job to reflect the directory changes. The job says to not edit it
>directly, so I am stuck. Any ideas?

as root, try "crontab -u mailman -e"

-- 
Chuq Von Rospach - Plaidworks Consulting (mailto:chuqui at plaidworks.com)
Apple Mail List Gnome (mailto:chuq at apple.com)

You seem a decent fellow. I hate to die.



From mbrennen at fni.com  Tue Oct 10 19:43:55 2000
From: mbrennen at fni.com (Michael Brennen)
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 12:43:55 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Hanging python cgi scripts on b6
In-Reply-To: <00fa01c0329d$a08997c0$b700a8c0@idns.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0010101122110.32478-100000@henry.fni.com>

I started by cleaning the locks directory, which did have some files
in it.  After starting over, I got a straightforward error, which I
had overloooked in the general confusion of setting this up for the
first time.

Traceback (innermost last):
  File "/usr/local/mailman/scripts/driver", line 96, in run_main
    main()
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/admin.py", line 143, in main
    mlist.Save()
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 842, in Save
    self.__save(dict)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 818, in __save
    os.link(fname, fname_last)
OSError: [Errno 1] Operation not permitted

I upgraded python to 2.0c1, rebuilt mailman, and it still fails with
this error.  FWIW check_perms still runs cleanly, but this looks to
me like an ownership/permissions problems.  Again, I am building
with the following options:

./configure \
        --with-cgi-gid=nobody \
        --with-mail-gid=mailman \
        --prefix=/usr/local/mailman \
        --exec-prefix=/usr/local/mailman

Could it be an apache / cgi su problem?  Is it necessary to run
suexec with apache?

   -- Michael

On Tue, 10 Oct 2000, Lim Hui Min wrote:

> might be irrelevant but maybe you can try upgrading your python
> to 2.0. it solve the lock file problem of qrunner for me

> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Dan Mick" <Dan.Mick at West.Sun.COM>

> > > I'm now tryin to admin my test list, and the python cgi script hangs
> > > forever.  The following is running as user nobody:
> > > 
> > > /usr/bin/python -S /some/path/mailman/scripts/driver admin
> > 
> > Can you arrange to strace it and find out what it's doing?
> > 
> > If not, check the ~mailman/locks directory; when the list stuff
> > is quiescent, it should be empty; maybe there's a dead lock
> > there.





From kmenard at WPI.EDU  Tue Oct 10 21:56:44 2000
From: kmenard at WPI.EDU (Kevin J. Menard, Jr.)
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 15:56:44 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Virtual Domain Support?
Message-ID: <03b301c032f4$37236750$31e8d782@kmenard>

Hi,

Is there a way to have Mailman set up mailing lists for virtual domains?  I
host several domains with my postfix / Cyrus set up.  As of now, I can set
up mailing lists @my.host.name.  Is there a way to override the hostname
value to set it up for @domain1.com then @domain2.com and so forth?

Thanks,
-Kevin




From gerhard at jason.nl  Tue Oct 10 21:57:54 2000
From: gerhard at jason.nl (Gerhard den Hollander)
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 21:57:54 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] looping
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0010091518210.1517-100000@rebel.ez.no>; from vl@ez.no on Mon, Oct 09, 2000 at 05:46:49PM +0200
References: <E13hUON-0002LI-00@rioja.localnet> <Pine.LNX.4.21.0010091518210.1517-100000@rebel.ez.no>
Message-ID: <20001010215754.E6375@zeus.jason.nl>

> > In short, no.  You cannot defend easily against gratuitously broken 
> > software.  I would personally see if there was an identifying mark in 
> > the headers for the mailer that guy was using and use that as a 
> > selector to catch incoming mail to the list.  I'd also probably just 
> > block the whole originating domain of that guy in my MTA, but I have a 
> > nasty inclination.

Wouldn't it be possible to have mailman add a header
X-Processed-By: Mailman-$listname
on resending, and mailman refusing (or pending for administartive manual
intervention) any incoming email that has this
X-Processed-By: Mailman-$listname

header ?


Kind regards,
 --
Gerhard den Hollander                           Phone +31-10.280.1515
Technical Support Jason Geosystems BV           Fax   +31-10.280.1511
	                           (When calling please note: we are in GMT+1)
gdenhollander at jasongeo.com                          POBox 1573
visit us at http://www.jasongeo.com                 3000 BN Rotterdam  
"TeamWare" for finding Oil & Gas...The Smart Way    The Netherlands

      This e-mail and any attachment is/are intended solely for the named
  addressee(s) and may contain information that is confidential and privileged.
       If you are not the intended recipient, we request that you do not
         disseminate, forward, distribute or copy this e-mail message.
      If you have received this e-mail message in error, please notify us
           immediately by telephone and destroy the original message.



From chuqui at plaidworks.com  Tue Oct 10 22:19:15 2000
From: chuqui at plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach)
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 13:19:15 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] looping
In-Reply-To: <20001010215754.E6375@zeus.jason.nl>
References: <E13hUON-0002LI-00@rioja.localnet>
 <Pine.LNX.4.21.0010091518210.1517-100000@rebel.ez.no>
 <20001010215754.E6375@zeus.jason.nl>
Message-ID: <p04330104b6092a28044f@[17.216.27.227]>

At 9:57 PM +0200 10/10/00, Gerhard den Hollander wrote:

>Wouldn't it be possible to have mailman add a header
>X-Processed-By: Mailman-$listname

is does:

   --> X-BeenThere: mailman-users at python.org


but if the other side strips headers, you're hosed.

-- 
Chuq Von Rospach - Plaidworks Consulting (mailto:chuqui at plaidworks.com)
Apple Mail List Gnome (mailto:chuq at apple.com)

You seem a decent fellow. I hate to die.



From tony at hagale.net  Tue Oct 10 22:23:21 2000
From: tony at hagale.net (Tony Hagale)
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 15:23:21 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] troubles...
Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20001010145106.00af0a18@209.140.14.229>

I'm having a strange problem, and I didn't see any references to anything 
similar on the list, so I figured I'd subscribe up and ask away.

My online journal at http://journal.hagale.net sends out an email to my 
mailman list every time I add a new entry.  The problem is, by some magic 
of the PHP mail() function combined with mailman, all of the suffixes that 
mailman throws on the end that SHOULD look like this:

_______________________________________________
tonyjournal mailing list
tonyjournal at hagale.net
http://www.hagale.net/mailman/listinfo/tonyjournal


end up looking like this:

_______________________________________________ tonyjournal mailing list 
tonyjournal at hagale.net http://www.hagale.net/mailman/listinfo/tonyjournal


It's all on the same line, and it's quite disgusting.  Is there an STMP 
header issue going on here that's confusing mailman? Has anyone seen this 
type of thing before?

Thanks much,
Tony Hagale


--

Tony Hagale -- tony at hagale.net -- http://tony.hagale.net
"Quis custodiet ipsos custodiens?"



From gerhard at jason.nl  Tue Oct 10 22:37:50 2000
From: gerhard at jason.nl (Gerhard den Hollander)
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 22:37:50 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Disabling passwords
In-Reply-To: <p04330105b607b55224c4@[17.216.27.227]>; from chuqui@plaidworks.com on Mon, Oct 09, 2000 at 10:48:08AM -0700
References: <EIEIKEFEGFCPLJMIJKFHGELKCAAA.bleto@stargate.net> <p04330105b607b55224c4@[17.216.27.227]>
Message-ID: <20001010223750.F6375@zeus.jason.nl>

* Chuq Von Rospach <chuqui at plaidworks.com> (Mon, Oct 09, 2000 at 10:48:08AM -0700)
> At 1:37 PM -0700 10/9/00, Bennie Leto wrote:
> >Is there a way to have mailman disable mailing list passwords Disabling
> >passwords?
> 
> Not at this time.

Or is there a way to set a password whitout having to go through  the
webinterface.

I have to change the passwords for over a 100 users on 20 lists so some
sort of command line tool/python script that takes a mailinglist username
and passwd would come in very handy.

Kind regards,
 --
Gerhard den Hollander                           Phone +31-10.280.1515
Technical Support Jason Geosystems BV           Fax   +31-10.280.1511
	                           (When calling please note: we are in GMT+1)
gdenhollander at jasongeo.com                          POBox 1573
visit us at http://www.jasongeo.com                 3000 BN Rotterdam  
"TeamWare" for finding Oil & Gas...The Smart Way    The Netherlands

      This e-mail and any attachment is/are intended solely for the named
  addressee(s) and may contain information that is confidential and privileged.
       If you are not the intended recipient, we request that you do not
         disseminate, forward, distribute or copy this e-mail message.
      If you have received this e-mail message in error, please notify us
           immediately by telephone and destroy the original message.



From Dan.Mick at west.sun.com  Tue Oct 10 22:43:29 2000
From: Dan.Mick at west.sun.com (Dan Mick)
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 13:43:29 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Hanging python cgi scripts on b6
Message-ID: <200010102042.NAA13058@utopia.west.sun.com>

So this is almost certainly the Openwall security issue mentioned
in README.LINUX.  Did you read that?

> I started by cleaning the locks directory, which did have some files
> in it.  After starting over, I got a straightforward error, which I
> had overloooked in the general confusion of setting this up for the
> first time.
> 
> Traceback (innermost last):
>   File "/usr/local/mailman/scripts/driver", line 96, in run_main
>     main()
>   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/admin.py", line 143, in main
>     mlist.Save()
>   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 842, in Save
>     self.__save(dict)
>   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 818, in __save
>     os.link(fname, fname_last)
> OSError: [Errno 1] Operation not permitted
> 
> I upgraded python to 2.0c1, rebuilt mailman, and it still fails with
> this error.  FWIW check_perms still runs cleanly, but this looks to
> me like an ownership/permissions problems.  Again, I am building
> with the following options:
> 
> ./configure \
>         --with-cgi-gid=nobody \
>         --with-mail-gid=mailman \
>         --prefix=/usr/local/mailman \
>         --exec-prefix=/usr/local/mailman
> 
> Could it be an apache / cgi su problem?  Is it necessary to run
> suexec with apache?
> 
>    -- Michael
> 
> On Tue, 10 Oct 2000, Lim Hui Min wrote:
> 
> > might be irrelevant but maybe you can try upgrading your python
> > to 2.0. it solve the lock file problem of qrunner for me
> 
> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > From: "Dan Mick" <Dan.Mick at West.Sun.COM>
> 
> > > > I'm now tryin to admin my test list, and the python cgi script hangs
> > > > forever.  The following is running as user nobody:
> > > > 
> > > > /usr/bin/python -S /some/path/mailman/scripts/driver admin
> > > 
> > > Can you arrange to strace it and find out what it's doing?
> > > 
> > > If not, check the ~mailman/locks directory; when the list stuff
> > > is quiescent, it should be empty; maybe there's a dead lock
> > > there.
> 
> 





From chuqui at plaidworks.com  Tue Oct 10 22:53:49 2000
From: chuqui at plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach)
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 13:53:49 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Disabling passwords
In-Reply-To: <20001010223750.F6375@zeus.jason.nl>
References: <EIEIKEFEGFCPLJMIJKFHGELKCAAA.bleto@stargate.net>
 <p04330105b607b55224c4@[17.216.27.227]>
 <20001010223750.F6375@zeus.jason.nl>
Message-ID: <p04330105b6093236ea0d@[17.216.27.227]>

At 10:37 PM +0200 10/10/00, Gerhard den Hollander wrote:
>Or is there a way to set a password whitout having to go through  the
>webinterface.

I'm pretty sure the answer is no.
-- 
Chuq Von Rospach - Plaidworks Consulting (mailto:chuqui at plaidworks.com)
Apple Mail List Gnome (mailto:chuq at apple.com)

You seem a decent fellow. I hate to die.



From Dan.Mick at West.Sun.COM  Tue Oct 10 23:14:49 2000
From: Dan.Mick at West.Sun.COM (Dan Mick)
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 14:14:49 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Disabling passwords
Message-ID: <200010102113.OAA14446@utopia.west.sun.com>

> Or is there a way to set a password whitout having to go through  the
> webinterface.
> 
> I have to change the passwords for over a 100 users on 20 lists so some
> sort of command line tool/python script that takes a mailinglist username
> and passwd would come in very handy.

Using withlist, it would be pretty easy to write; the passwords
are stored in a simple array indexed by username.

Of course you have to know a little bit of Python.  If you're
desperate I'll hack something up for you.  Meanwhile here's the
snippet I have lying around to dump them; stick it in ~mailman
and invoke bin/withlist -r pws.pws <listname>


import sys

fmt = "%-40s\t%s"
def pws(list):

   for member in list.members.keys():
      print fmt % (member, list.passwords[member])

   for member in list.digest_members.keys():
      print fmt % (member, list.passwords[member])

   sys.exit(0)



vvv kind of a long .sig, isn't it?....

> Kind regards,
>  --
> Gerhard den Hollander                           Phone +31-10.280.1515
> Technical Support Jason Geosystems BV           Fax   +31-10.280.1511
> 	                           (When calling please note: we are in GMT+1)
> gdenhollander at jasongeo.com                          POBox 1573
> visit us at http://www.jasongeo.com                 3000 BN Rotterdam  
> "TeamWare" for finding Oil & Gas...The Smart Way    The Netherlands
> 
>       This e-mail and any attachment is/are intended solely for the named
>   addressee(s) and may contain information that is confidential and 
privileged.
>        If you are not the intended recipient, we request that you do not
>          disseminate, forward, distribute or copy this e-mail message.
>       If you have received this e-mail message in error, please notify us
>            immediately by telephone and destroy the original message.
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users maillist  -  Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users





From chuqui at plaidworks.com  Tue Oct 10 23:23:23 2000
From: chuqui at plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach)
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 14:23:23 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Disabling passwords
In-Reply-To: <200010102113.OAA14446@utopia.west.sun.com>
References: <200010102113.OAA14446@utopia.west.sun.com>
Message-ID: <p04330107b60939278c5d@[17.216.27.227]>

At 2:14 PM -0700 10/10/00, Dan Mick wrote:
>
>vvv kind of a long .sig, isn't it?....

heck, as fast as modems are today, why worry about it? besides, it 
looks like their lawyers give them no choice.

-- 
Chuq Von Rospach - Plaidworks Consulting (mailto:chuqui at plaidworks.com)
Apple Mail List Gnome (mailto:chuq at apple.com)

You seem a decent fellow. I hate to die.



From Dan.Mick at west.sun.com  Tue Oct 10 23:27:59 2000
From: Dan.Mick at west.sun.com (Dan Mick)
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 14:27:59 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Disabling passwords
Message-ID: <200010102126.OAA14968@utopia.west.sun.com>

> >vvv kind of a long .sig, isn't it?....
> 
> heck, as fast as modems are today, why worry about it? 

Creeping noise.

> besides, it 
> looks like their lawyers give them no choice.

Hopefully the feedback makes it back to the lawyers, then...




From bleto at stargate.net  Wed Oct 11 02:20:38 2000
From: bleto at stargate.net (Bennie Leto)
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 17:20:38 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] No passwords
References: <39D9F4DC.A14818E8@forestry.umn.edu> <20001004020401.I17680@aphid.net> <01a901c02d67$28da2400$1445d2ce@spleenix>
Message-ID: <010501c03319$1516f940$1445d2ce@spleenix>

how do i attach a footer onto the bottom of each message i send out?




From chuqui at plaidworks.com  Tue Oct 10 23:37:05 2000
From: chuqui at plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach)
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 14:37:05 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] No passwords
In-Reply-To: <010501c03319$1516f940$1445d2ce@spleenix>
References: <39D9F4DC.A14818E8@forestry.umn.edu>
 <20001004020401.I17680@aphid.net>
 <01a901c02d67$28da2400$1445d2ce@spleenix>
 <010501c03319$1516f940$1445d2ce@spleenix>
Message-ID: <p0433010ab6093c5a4cc0@[17.216.27.227]>

At 5:20 PM -0700 10/10/00, Bennie Leto wrote:
>how do i attach a footer onto the bottom of each message i send out?
>

easiest way to do this is modify the footer mailman attaches. It's on 
the "non-digest options" admin page.

you'd make a similar change to digests on the digest page.

-- 
Chuq Von Rospach - Plaidworks Consulting (mailto:chuqui at plaidworks.com)
Apple Mail List Gnome (mailto:chuq at apple.com)

You seem a decent fellow. I hate to die.



From mbrennen at fni.com  Tue Oct 10 23:38:48 2000
From: mbrennen at fni.com (Michael Brennen)
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 16:38:48 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Found it... (was hanging processes)
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0010101634460.32478-100000@henry.fni.com>

It turned out to be the 'secure' version of the mandrake kernel
causing my problems.  I booted up the stock mandrake kernel and all
is working well now.  This is the first server I chose to run the
secure kernel on, and of course it turns out that the application
I'm going to run on it cannot tolerate it.  Oh well...  thanks again
to those who answered.

   -- Michael





From steffen at asta.uni-wuppertal.de  Wed Oct 11 01:53:34 2000
From: steffen at asta.uni-wuppertal.de (Steffen Bardolatzi)
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 01:53:34 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman-Bug with faked spam headers and some suggestions new features
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0010110059160.828-100000@steffensdomaine.dyndns.org>

This looks like a nasty bug ...


We are running Mailman for some time now - one of the liste is a
"half-open" one with these settings:

- everyone can post
- bccs to the list are not permitted (to avoid spams, works fine)
- some alias-names for some users who regulary post to a different
adress but bcc to our's


Recently a spam message with a visible to-entry in the mail header
arrived here: "To: <>" in the fields displayed by mail clients.

This caused to log Mailman Beta 6 the following files into the error-
logfile:

Oct 08 23:53:01 2000 (25258) Delivery exception: read-only character 
buffer, None
Oct 08 23:53:01 2000 (25258) Traceback (innermost last):
  File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/HandlerAPI.py", line 82, in
do_pipeline
    func(mlist, msg, msgdata)
  File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/Hold.py", line 173, in process
    if mlist.require_explicit_destination and \
  File "/var/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 1208, in HasExplicitDest
    addr = string.lower(addr)
TypeError: read-only character buffer, None


... these lines were repeated each *2* minutes for more than 10 hours
(until I deleted the db-, and msg-file in the qfiles directory).
The original msg-file time was exactly the one of the first log in the
log file. In this *first* log I could read something like "implicit
header..." followed by the endlessly repeated actual error-log above.


-------------------------------


In addition to this here are some more minior bugs:

- In case some e-mails are sent with qp-7bit-code the archiver does
*not* covert them back into the acutal 8 bit characters - which makes it
more diffucult to read the postings in the archive unless you are get
used to qp-coding. As for 8 bit characters it works fine.
Some of the affected mail clients are Pegasus und Outlook
Express (according to some header analyses on an unregular bases).
E-Mails are send just fine with no problems.

- In case some people send M$-attachments the archive does not
interpret this mime code and displays if just as if it was plain text.
A nice *new* feature was if there was displayed a link for
non-text-files like: download this file.

- It would be fine if the archive would *not* display both the text
and html code (in source code) if some people send a message with html
*and* txt - the default might be *only* to render the html part
readable (as e.g. done my pine).
In general it would be fine if the archive was mime-aware ... there are
too many users out there who have not yet learnt to send e-mails in
plain text.

- In case there are packet losses and timeouts during processing some
admin-(mail)-requests Mailman does recognize the changes but does
endlessly attempt to load the updated admin-requests site.


-------------------------------------------


- sugestion for a new feature:

I was told to disable the unsubscribe-funktion for a special list: I
edited the list option's site *and* disabled the request e-mail adress
(else I had to filter out unsubscribe in the subject and body with
procmail or so).
So far this works fine *but* has been some work.
Therefore a switch like: "unsubscribe  yes  no" would be a good idea -
maybe on a per-list bases in the mydefauls.py-file.


Thanks in advance and thaks for such a great mailing list manager!


PS.: I hope it's ok if I send it to mailman-users and
mailman-developers and sorry about the length.
Anyway Mailman seems to get better with each Beta version.





From dave at geol.ucsb.edu  Wed Oct 11 04:31:07 2000
From: dave at geol.ucsb.edu (Dave Robbins)
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 19:31:07 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] access control for Mailman's webpages?
Message-ID: <200010110231.TAA07670@geosci.geol.ucsb.edu>

Is it possible to apply access control to Mailman's dynamically generated
web pages similar to what .htaccess does for static pages?
If so, can someone point me in the right direction?  I have Mailman 1.1
running.

Dave Robbins



From rob at peopleart.net  Wed Oct 11 03:37:58 2000
From: rob at peopleart.net (Rob Martin)
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 21:37:58 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] fixing the reply-to bug.
In-Reply-To: <39DEB146.17AF8975@timharrison.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0010102136220.17161-100000@peopleart.net>

Tim,

I've been looking through my list mail for an answer to this question, and
I haven't found one. Does anyone have an idea? I know the use of the
reply_goes_to_list is not preferred, but for the lists i run it's
preferable...

Meanwhile, I'll look for a workaround.

Thanks!
Rob Martin


On Sat, 7 Oct 2000, Tim Harrison wrote:

> 
> Hi folks.
> 
> I applied the patch to fix the reply-to bug, and found that it created
> another headache for me.
> 
> I sent a test message to my list, and found that no matter what I set
> the explicit reply-to address to, the reply-to always ends up being my
> own address.  
> 
> Anyone else found this, or know of a way to fix it?
> 
> 

-- 
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Welcome to MS-Linux version 3.0.
Please enter your login name, or press escape to login as root.
login: > _

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++




From lindsey at mallorn.com  Wed Oct 11 04:47:41 2000
From: lindsey at mallorn.com (Christopher P. Lindsey)
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 21:47:41 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] access control for Mailman's webpages?
In-Reply-To: <200010110231.TAA07670@geosci.geol.ucsb.edu>; from dave@geol.ucsb.edu on Tue, Oct 10, 2000 at 07:31:07PM -0700
References: <200010110231.TAA07670@geosci.geol.ucsb.edu>
Message-ID: <20001010214741.A15339@mallorn.com>

> Is it possible to apply access control to Mailman's dynamically generated
> web pages similar to what .htaccess does for static pages?
> If so, can someone point me in the right direction?  I have Mailman 1.1
> running.

Paul Hebble, a student of mine at NCSA for a while, submitted patches to the
mailman-developers list in 1999 that used regular .htaccess authentication
over the builtin Mailman authentication.  I don't think it ever made 
its way into the CVS tree.

Unfortunately, I don't have a copy of the patch.  You may be able to
find a copy in the archives.

Chris



From marc_news at valinux.com  Wed Oct 11 07:37:20 2000
From: marc_news at valinux.com (Marc MERLIN)
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 22:37:20 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Found it... (was hanging processes)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0010101634460.32478-100000@henry.fni.com>; from mbrennen@fni.com on Tue, Oct 10, 2000 at 04:38:48PM -0500
References: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0010101634460.32478-100000@henry.fni.com>
Message-ID: <20001010223720.A18733@marc.merlins.org>

On Tue, Oct 10, 2000 at 04:38:48PM -0500, Michael Brennen wrote:
> 
> It turned out to be the 'secure' version of the mandrake kernel
> causing my problems.  I booted up the stock mandrake kernel and all
> is working well now.  This is the first server I chose to run the
> secure kernel on, and of course it turns out that the application
> I'm going to run on it cannot tolerate it.  Oh well...  thanks again
> to those who answered.

It should work with the secure kernel if you run my script first:
http://www.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2000-October/007822.html

Marc
-- 
Microsoft is to operating systems & security ....
                                      .... what McDonalds is to gourmet cooking
  
Home page: http://marc.merlins.org/   |   Finger marc_f at merlins.org for PGP key



From jellywobbles at operamail.com  Wed Oct 11 09:20:10 2000
From: jellywobbles at operamail.com (Paul Wilkinson)
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 08:20:10 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Will installing Mailman invalidate my RAQ3 warranty?
Message-ID: <200010110719.HAA05322@ns.nameserve.co.uk>

Hi Folks:

I am a newbie .. have just got a  RAQ3 with 256Mb .. like the look of MailMan 
however I am concerned that if I run it I will invalidate my RAQ3 warranty.

I ask since I also have a need to run "POP Before SMTP Relay 1.2 for Cobalt 
Servers Appliances" & I have been informed by my RAQ3 supplier 
(www.catalog.com) that if I install this "POP before SMTP Relay" patch I will 
be invalidating my warranty??

What a ridiculous state of affairs! Having only had the RAQ3 for a week I am 
now considering cancelling the RAQ3 (and replacing it for a standard Linux 6.2 
Pro Box with Plesk) as it seems to be a "very incomplete system & outdated". 
Maybe this is why every man & his dog is advertising RAQ3's at knock down 
prices??

Can anyone help me out here?

Thanks & Rgds

Paul
====


Paul.     email: jellywobbles at operamail.com
================================


Open a MyFreeMail account today! Its FREE! 
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From chuqui at plaidworks.com  Wed Oct 11 09:28:55 2000
From: chuqui at plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach)
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 00:28:55 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Will installing Mailman invalidate my
 RAQ3 warranty?
In-Reply-To: <200010110719.HAA05322@ns.nameserve.co.uk>
References: <200010110719.HAA05322@ns.nameserve.co.uk>
Message-ID: <p04330114b609c6d32936@[209.239.169.197]>

At 8:20 AM +0100 10/11/00, Paul Wilkinson wrote:

>I am a newbie .. have just got a  RAQ3 with 256Mb .. like the look of MailMan
>however I am concerned that if I run it I will invalidate my RAQ3 warranty.

Only your vendor can say for sure, but it kinda sounds like their 
warranty is set up such that if you plug it in, you violate your 
warranty. I'd go back to your vendor and ask how the machine can be 
useful if you can't do anything with it, and see what they say.

Have you brought this up with your supplier's management? Is this 
their real answer, or just a low-end person throwing a slop answer? 
Because if things that simple violate a warranty (software installs?) 
I wouldn't touch that box. What you do is up to you.

-- 
Chuq Von Rospach - Plaidworks Consulting (mailto:chuqui at plaidworks.com)
Apple Mail List Gnome (mailto:chuq at apple.com)

Be just, and fear not.



From ben at prince.org  Wed Oct 11 09:50:11 2000
From: ben at prince.org (Ben Margolin)
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 00:50:11 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Postfix problem? Mail goes into mailman, never exits, no errors in log
Message-ID: <20001011074946.CA1098DA87@www.prince.org>

I've got issues here, if anyone could help that'd be great.

Installed: mailman2.0-beta6 and postfix (not sure of version). Mail works 
fine to and from my box. Mailman, though...

- I created a postfix.aliases in /home/mailman, put my list alias in there, 
owned by the proper people, etc.Ran postalias on it as mailman user. Looks 
good.
- I edited mm_cfg.py as I think it should be -- from a working config I had
a while back (when this box had a different linux distro on it.)
- Mail sent to the list goes into the qfiles directory, and sits there. Never 
is delivered.
- No errors show up in /var/log/messages or /var/log/mail or 
/home/mailman/logs/*.
- The messages sent to the list, DO go into the web archive.

I'm stumped. Why isn't mailman delivering anything?

The only thing that seems kinda strange to me is that when I do a telnet 
localhost 25, I get something like:

Trying ::1...
telnet: connect to address ::1: connection refused
Trying 127.0.0.1...
Connected to localhost... [ETC]

That whole "::1" business seems wrong, but mail works from other apps!
Maybe that's totally unrelated(??).
-- Ben Margolin, ben at prince.org on 10/11/2000




From ben at prince.org  Wed Oct 11 10:23:26 2000
From: ben at prince.org (Ben Margolin)
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 01:23:26 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Follow-up (still not working though!)
Message-ID: <20001011082301.8C1CE8DA87@www.prince.org>

Well, I figured out the ::1 thing (that didn't seem to be the problem 
anyhow). It's some IPV6 thing. Anyhow--

In fact posts do NOT seem to be going to the archive on new lists. I had 
forgotten to set up the mmsitepassword also, but have now. No difference. 
Really frustrating! The emails are definitely going in (I see them in the 
qfiles directory) but no errors anywhere, and no outgoing mail.

Interesting: when I create a new list, I *DO* get a new list email, and if I
add myself as a subscriber via the web, I get a welcome to the list email.
Mailing the request address with 'help' produces no result.

Is it something to do with the wrapper maybe?
I find it kinda interesting that the 'post' and 'mailcmd' and 'mailowner' 
scripts in 'scripts' do NOT have .pyc counterparts (should they? doesn't
the wrapper script cause them to be compiled?)

I'm not a python guy, so I have no clue as to how to even debug this.
If it's in the qfiles dir, what has and hasn't worked yet, or what to check
next, I dunno. Happy to try things if people have suggestions!

Thanks for any advice!
Ben


-- Ben Margolin, ben at prince.org on 10/11/2000




From Nigel.Metheringham at VData.co.uk  Wed Oct 11 10:33:24 2000
From: Nigel.Metheringham at VData.co.uk (Nigel Metheringham)
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 09:33:24 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Postfix problem? Mail goes into mailman, 
 never exits, no errors in log
In-Reply-To: Message from Ben Margolin <ben@prince.org> 
   of "Wed, 11 Oct 2000 00:50:11 PDT." <20001011074946.CA1098DA87@www.prince.org> 
Message-ID: <E13jHKG-0004m9-00@rioja.localnet>

ben at prince.org said:
> The only thing that seems kinda strange to me is that when I do a
> telnet  localhost 25, I get something like: 

> Trying ::1...
> telnet: connect to address ::1: connection refused
> Trying 127.0.0.1...
> Connected to localhost... [ETC]

There is a smell of IPv6 here.
What is a DNS lookup of localhost giving you, or whats in your 
/etc/hosts file or however you get your name lookups?  I assume you are 
getting both a IPv6 loopback and a IPv4 loopback address, in which case 
there are 2 solutions:-

  1. Get postfix to support IPv6 and specifically listen on the IPv6 
loopback

  2. Rehash your name lookups so that a localhost lookup only returns
     127.0.0.1

  3. [my counting is dodgy]  Change the host that Mailman connects to 
via SMTP
     to an explicit IP by adding
	SMTPHOST=127.0.0.1
     to mm_cfg.py

	Nigel.
-- 
[ - Opinions expressed are personal and may not be shared by VData - ]
[ Nigel Metheringham                  Nigel.Metheringham at VData.co.uk ]
[ Phone: +44 1423 850000                         Fax +44 1423 858866 ]





From Nigel.Metheringham at VData.co.uk  Wed Oct 11 10:34:50 2000
From: Nigel.Metheringham at VData.co.uk (Nigel Metheringham)
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 09:34:50 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Follow-up (still not working though!) 
In-Reply-To: Message from Ben Margolin <ben@prince.org> 
   of "Wed, 11 Oct 2000 01:23:26 PDT." <20001011082301.8C1CE8DA87@www.prince.org> 
Message-ID: <E13jHLe-0004mP-00@rioja.localnet>

ben at prince.org said:
> In fact posts do NOT seem to be going to the archive on new lists. I
> had  forgotten to set up the mmsitepassword also, but have now. No
> difference.  Really frustrating! The emails are definitely going in (I
> see them in the  qfiles directory) but no errors anywhere, and no
> outgoing mail. 

Set the cron jobs up as it tells you in the documentation.  See 
crontab.in for an example.

Then look in the ~mailman/logs directory for information on whats 
happening.

	Nigel.
-- 
[ - Opinions expressed are personal and may not be shared by VData - ]
[ Nigel Metheringham                  Nigel.Metheringham at VData.co.uk ]
[ Phone: +44 1423 850000                         Fax +44 1423 858866 ]





From huimin.lim at i-dns.net  Wed Oct 11 10:42:16 2000
From: huimin.lim at i-dns.net (Lim Hui Min)
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 16:42:16 +0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Postfix problem? Mail goes into mailman, never exits, no errors in log
References: <20001011074946.CA1098DA87@www.prince.org>
Message-ID: <007001c0335f$295dd9a0$e000a8c0@idns.net>

have you check your mailman/logs/qfiles ?

HM

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ben Margolin" <ben at prince.org>
To: <mailman-users at python.org>
Sent: Wednesday, October 11, 2000 3:50 PM
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Postfix problem? Mail goes into mailman, never
exits, no errors in log


I've got issues here, if anyone could help that'd be great.

Installed: mailman2.0-beta6 and postfix (not sure of version). Mail works
fine to and from my box. Mailman, though...

- I created a postfix.aliases in /home/mailman, put my list alias in there,
owned by the proper people, etc.Ran postalias on it as mailman user. Looks
good.
- I edited mm_cfg.py as I think it should be -- from a working config I had
a while back (when this box had a different linux distro on it.)
- Mail sent to the list goes into the qfiles directory, and sits there.
Never
is delivered.
- No errors show up in /var/log/messages or /var/log/mail or
/home/mailman/logs/*.
- The messages sent to the list, DO go into the web archive.

I'm stumped. Why isn't mailman delivering anything?

The only thing that seems kinda strange to me is that when I do a telnet
localhost 25, I get something like:

Trying ::1...
telnet: connect to address ::1: connection refused
Trying 127.0.0.1...
Connected to localhost... [ETC]

That whole "::1" business seems wrong, but mail works from other apps!
Maybe that's totally unrelated(??).
-- Ben Margolin, ben at prince.org on 10/11/2000


------------------------------------------------------
Mailman-Users maillist  -  Mailman-Users at python.org
http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users




From gerhard at jason.nl  Wed Oct 11 09:31:03 2000
From: gerhard at jason.nl (Gerhard den Hollander)
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 09:31:03 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Disabling passwords
In-Reply-To: <200010102113.OAA14446@utopia.west.sun.com>; from Dan.Mick@West.Sun.COM on Tue, Oct 10, 2000 at 02:14:49PM -0700
References: <200010102113.OAA14446@utopia.west.sun.com>
Message-ID: <20001011093102.B10708@zeus.jason.nl>

* Dan Mick <Dan.Mick at West.Sun.COM> (Tue, Oct 10, 2000 at 02:14:49PM -0700)

>> Or is there a way to set a password whitout having to go through  the
>> webinterface.

>> I have to change the passwords for over a 100 users on 20 lists so some
>> sort of command line tool/python script that takes a mailinglist username
>> and passwd would come in very handy.

> Using withlist, it would be pretty easy to write; the passwords
> are stored in a simple array indexed by username.

> Of course you have to know a little bit of Python.  If you're

Ehm, yeah,
that's my main problem.
I know almost no Python 
(in fact all I know is that it's loops are indent based ;) )

> desperate I'll hack something up for you.  Meanwhile here's the

Please do. I really am desperate ;)

> snippet I have lying around to dump them; stick it in ~mailman
> and invoke bin/withlist -r pws.pws <listname>

Cool,
works like a charm , thanks ;)

> vvv kind of a long .sig, isn't it?....

Yeah, that's my official compnay signature ..
I'd forgotten to take it off and replace it with one of my own.


	Gerhard,  <@jasongeo.com>   == The Acoustic Motorbiker == 	
-- 
   __O	Standing above the crowd, he had a voice so strong and loud
 =`\<,			we'll miss him
(=)/(=)	Ranting and pointing his finger, At everything but his heart
			we'll miss him




From wcarlson at vh.org  Wed Oct 11 17:22:37 2000
From: wcarlson at vh.org (Bill Carlson)
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 10:22:37 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Will installing Mailman invalidate my RAQ3
 warranty?
In-Reply-To: <200010110719.HAA05322@ns.nameserve.co.uk>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10010111014570.12539-100000@marcus.rome.vh.org>

On Wed, 11 Oct 2000, Paul Wilkinson wrote:

> Hi Folks:
> 
> I am a newbie .. have just got a  RAQ3 with 256Mb .. like the look of MailMan 
> however I am concerned that if I run it I will invalidate my RAQ3 warranty.
> 
> I ask since I also have a need to run "POP Before SMTP Relay 1.2 for Cobalt 
> Servers Appliances" & I have been informed by my RAQ3 supplier 
> (www.catalog.com) that if I install this "POP before SMTP Relay" patch I will 
> be invalidating my warranty??
> 
> What a ridiculous state of affairs! Having only had the RAQ3 for a week I am 
> now considering cancelling the RAQ3 (and replacing it for a standard Linux 6.2 
> Pro Box with Plesk) as it seems to be a "very incomplete system & outdated". 
> Maybe this is why every man & his dog is advertising RAQ3's at knock down 
> prices??

Cobalt boxes are indeed intended to be Appliances, ie plug it in and it
does the job. Just as your refrigerator warranty doesn't cover replacing
the compressor with a beefier one, so goes the Cobalt and software. That's
the price you pay for someone doing all the work for you.

That is exactly why I stay away from Cobalt machines (I am forced to
support 4 of them), even though the latest models are at least Intel
compatible.

If you have to time to learn, I'd recommend returning the RAQ3 and
building your own box with one of the Linux distros (I won't go into which
one, no need for blood this early in the morning).

If you need to get the box up quickly without spending the time to learn,
you might look at a preconfigured Linux machine, but odds are the warranty
on the software will be the same or worse then Cobalt's. The trade off is
always time vs flexibility.

Good Luck,

Bill Carlson
------------
Systems Programmer    bill-carlson at uiowa.edu	|  Opinions are mine,
Virtual Hospital      http://www.vh.org/        |  not my employer's.
University of Iowa Hospitals and Clinics	|




From pfaff at edge.cis.mcmaster.ca  Wed Oct 11 18:22:23 2000
From: pfaff at edge.cis.mcmaster.ca (Todd Pfaff)
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 12:22:23 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman-1.1 mail loop if list owner address is undeliverable
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.21.0010111211370.29195-100000@edge.cis.mcmaster.ca>

I'm using mailman-1.1.  I recently encountered a problem with a list owner
address that was undeliverable.

- some administrative message is generated that is sent to the list owner
address
- somewhere along the way, an undeliverable address is encountered and the
remote end generates a "550...Host unknown" error message which is 
returned to sender
- this is returned to the list admin address which in turn generates
another message to list owner

Are there any patches or solutions for mailman-1.1 which improve mailman's
chance of catching and stopping such a loop?  If not, is this something
that is improved in mailman-2.0?

--
Todd Pfaff                         \  Email: pfaff at mcmaster.ca
Computing and Information Services  \ Voice: (905) 525-9140 x22920
ABB 132                              \  FAX: (905) 528-3773
McMaster University                   \
Hamilton, Ontario, Canada  L8S 4M1     \





From aholson at u.washington.edu  Wed Oct 11 18:30:11 2000
From: aholson at u.washington.edu (allen harvey olson)
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 09:30:11 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Vacation autoresponders
Message-ID: <Pine.A41.4.21.0010110927430.62524-100000@homer38.u.washington.edu>

How can you make Mailman not accept postings which are really just
responses from people's "vacation" autoresponders -- you know, the "I'm
out of town until Oct. 11" variety?

I would suppose this has already been addressed somewhere, but I don't
find it in the list or the FAQ.

-Allen
 aholson at u.washington.edu




From chuqui at plaidworks.com  Wed Oct 11 18:43:32 2000
From: chuqui at plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach)
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 09:43:32 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Vacation autoresponders
In-Reply-To: 
 <Pine.A41.4.21.0010110927430.62524-100000@homer38.u.washington.edu>
References: 
 <Pine.A41.4.21.0010110927430.62524-100000@homer38.u.washington.edu>
Message-ID: <p04330101b60a49080f2c@[17.216.27.227]>

At 9:30 AM -0700 10/11/00, allen harvey olson wrote:
>How can you make Mailman not accept postings which are really just
>responses from people's "vacation" autoresponders -- you know, the "I'm
>out of town until Oct. 11" variety?

It's a non-ending skirmish. There's no "right" way, because there's 
no real standard for identifying what an autoresponder does, and so 
many folks build them from scratch and don't add any identifying 
info...

-- 
Chuq Von Rospach - Plaidworks Consulting (mailto:chuqui at plaidworks.com)
Apple Mail List Gnome (mailto:chuq at apple.com)

Be just, and fear not.



From atropos at fates.org  Wed Oct 11 19:09:37 2000
From: atropos at fates.org (David B. O'Donnell)
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 13:09:37 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] List owner lost password
Message-ID: <281666.3180258577@mrsgale.fates.org>

I am the site administrator for a 2.0b6 site. One of the list owners has 
lost their password. I've read a few messages in the list archives that 
state that the site admin can change the list password, but I have not 
found a means of doing so. Attempting to use the web interface does not 
work, and nothing in ~mailman/bin seems to fit the bill.

Thanks in advance for your assistance.

-- 
David B. O'Donnell - atropos at fates.org - www.fates.org
Help rescue cats in need: Fancy Cats Rescue Team, www.fancycats.org



From marouni at earlham.edu  Wed Oct 11 19:22:04 2000
From: marouni at earlham.edu (Nick Marouf)
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 12:22:04 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] List owner lost password
References: <281666.3180258577@mrsgale.fates.org>
Message-ID: <39E4A1BC.15ABD037@earlham.edu>

Hi,
	I am assuming you set a site passwd /bin/mmsitepass
then you can enter any mailing list with that, and change the user
passwd to what they want.

Nick




"David B. O'Donnell" wrote:
> Attempting to use the web interface does not
> work, and nothing in ~mailman/bin seems to fit the bill.
> 
> Thanks in advance for your assistance.

-- 
Nicholas Marouf || Earlham College || Assistant System Administrator.
http://www.ramallaonline.com



From ben at prince.org  Wed Oct 11 19:22:25 2000
From: ben at prince.org (Ben Margolin)
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 10:22:25 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] 2nd Follow-up (it works! but i don't know why)
Message-ID: <20001011172157.A11B48DA87@www.prince.org>

I wrote earlier about my setup not working, with postfix and mailman 2.0b6.
Well, it magically started working. I hate it when it does that! The only 
thing I changed was that I removed 'localhost' from the /etc/hosts file under 
::1 for IPv6 (which didn't seem to help, at least not right away). Perhaps
postfix needed some time to notice the change, or something. 

Anyhow, I've got my old list back up and running, and all seems well. Thanks 
to everyone who responded to me publicly or privately!

-- Ben Margolin, ben at prince.org on 10/11/2000




From benites at cs.unca.edu  Wed Oct 11 19:51:41 2000
From: benites at cs.unca.edu (Robert Benites)
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 13:51:41 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Question about Subscriber List
Message-ID: <200010111751.e9BHpff20994@marshall.cs.unca.edu>

I hope this isn't a question which has been answered before. I
reviewed the Mailman-users archives, the FAQ, and installation
documentation.

In majordomo the subscriber list is stored in a text file. How and
where is a Mailman subscriber list stored?

The reason I ask this is there is a group which maintains a user list
in a Mac database. They'd like to occasionally dump the list to a text
file and replace the subscriber list in total. I know there's a
web-based interface to do a mass subscriber update, but I was hoping
to do it programatically.

Is this possible/advisable?

Thanks!

-- bb



From chuqui at plaidworks.com  Wed Oct 11 19:57:27 2000
From: chuqui at plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach)
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 10:57:27 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Question about Subscriber List
In-Reply-To: <200010111751.e9BHpff20994@marshall.cs.unca.edu>
References: <200010111751.e9BHpff20994@marshall.cs.unca.edu>
Message-ID: <p04330105b60a5a5521ef@[17.216.27.227]>

At 1:51 PM -0400 10/11/00, Robert Benites wrote:

>file and replace the subscriber list in total. I know there's a
>web-based interface to do a mass subscriber update, but I was hoping
>to do it programatically.
>
>Is this possible/advisable?

look at bin/add_members and bin/remove_members.

Although if you want to keep the database in sync with mailman, it'll 
be a little more complicated, you can occasionally just purge the 
subscriber list and then load a fresh one in.

-- 
Chuq Von Rospach - Plaidworks Consulting (mailto:chuqui at plaidworks.com)
Apple Mail List Gnome (mailto:chuq at apple.com)

Be just, and fear not.



From jw at w3.ca  Wed Oct 11 20:02:47 2000
From: jw at w3.ca (Jeff Warnica)
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 15:02:47 -0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Question about Subscriber List
In-Reply-To: <200010111751.e9BHpff20994@marshall.cs.unca.edu>
Message-ID: <IIEBLDMEINDOBBODINPNIEDOCBAA.jw@w3.ca>

The user table is stored in a database /mailman/lists/LISTNAME/config.db

I am not sure of the format which that is in, but its proably not advisible
to update it directly.

mailman/bin/sync_members is a helper script that takes a text file an syncs
the mailman database, addind addresses that are in the text file and not in
config.db, and removing addresses that dont exist in the text file and exist
in config.db

Hourly from cron I have a couple of scripts that run, suck out ~10,000
addresses from a SQL database, and feeds them through sync_members, so this
is quite possible. The only catch is that sync_members checks for (what it
thinks are) invalid addresses: not only does it die silently, it nullifies
the entire list. Yes when I found this out the hard way the client with 2
nullified 10k member lists was pissed.

I ultimatly just commented out the block of code that did the check.


> I hope this isn't a question which has been answered before. I
> reviewed the Mailman-users archives, the FAQ, and installation
> documentation.
>
> In majordomo the subscriber list is stored in a text file. How and
> where is a Mailman subscriber list stored?
>
> The reason I ask this is there is a group which maintains a user list
> in a Mac database. They'd like to occasionally dump the list to a text
> file and replace the subscriber list in total. I know there's a
> web-based interface to do a mass subscriber update, but I was hoping
> to do it programatically.
>
> Is this possible/advisable?




From nhruby at arches.uga.edu  Wed Oct 11 22:52:33 2000
From: nhruby at arches.uga.edu (nathan r. hruby)
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 16:52:33 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Reply-To munging munges -reguest address as well
Message-ID: <39E4D311.6242A75@arches.uga.edu>

So yesterday in a attempt to recover a fsck'ed archive I upgraded a
Mailman 1.0rc3 install to 2.0b6.  

All went well and every thing updated perfectly and I was able to
rebuild
the archive from the mbox file.  'Twas great.  I love it.

This morning there are three subscribe confirms in my inbox that have
been
sent to the list.  It seems that the Reply-To: field had bee munged to
point at the list.  Odd.

So I jump into the list config and find that, yes, the owner of the list
had set the Reply-To: to point at the list (bad owner, I know..) So I
reset it to not munge the Reply-To: and everything start working fine
again (except that I have about 300 unhappy users...)

It seems that after the upgrade to 2.0b6 the Reply-To: munging setting
was
taking effect on the -request address too, so that
subscription confirmations went out like this (When Reply-To: was set to
point at the list):

---
   Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 14:49:04 -0400
   From: dirgames-l-request at nuttybar.drama.uga.edu
   Reply-To: dirgames-l at nuttybar.drama.uga.edu
   To: nathan at natedawg.drama.uga.edu
   Subject: dirGames-L -- confirmation of subscription -- request 264279
---

I assume this is a bug?  Has this been noticed / fixed?

Or, have I just mis-configured something? (I don't think so, everything
else seems to working fine, but what do I know?)

-n
-- 
........
nathan hruby
Webmaster: UGA Department of Drama and Theatre
Project Maintainer: phpSlash, Carousel
nhruby at arches.uga.edu
........



From ppriest at hydraweb.com  Thu Oct 12 00:01:44 2000
From: ppriest at hydraweb.com (Philip Priest)
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 18:01:44 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] "Authentication failed".
In-Reply-To: <20001011213402.F29C71CC24@dinsdale.python.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0010111741430.31377-100000@70chevelle.dev.hydraweb.com>

I have installed mailman-2.0beta6 on a test machine and followed all of
the instructions quite closely. I have created a test list, with an
administrative password of foo. When I attempt to log in to the
administrative pages I ma told "Authentication failed". 

I have examined the situation closely, and I am absolutely certain that the
httpd server (apache) is passing all of the correct information to the
admin program (by way of stdin and environment variables). I have looked
through all of the documentation and the FAQ and found nothing that
indicates why this might be happening. However, strace did mention a
variety of failures related to opening/finding md5 files in
~mailman/Mailman directory -- could this be the problem?

Does anybody have any idea what is going on, or what the solution is?

Sincerely, Philip S. Priest.   





From steiny at infopoint.com  Thu Oct 12 00:20:06 2000
From: steiny at infopoint.com (Don Steiny)
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 15:20:06 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Very close . . .
Message-ID: <200010112220.e9BMK7024498@infopoint.infopoint.com>

	I am stuck on getting mailman to work and I am sure it is something
simple.  

	When I reply to the message I get from mailman, I do not get signed up.
I can see in /var/log/syslog that it is calling wrapper with mailcmd test 
and there are no error messages in the log/error file.   The subscribe file 
has a message: test: pending steiny at infopoint.com.    However, I never get
a message telling me I am signed up and when I go to the Web page for the
list no users are signed up.

	I am using mailman-2.0beta6 - Solaris 7 - Pyton-1.6 and I put in
the patch for the Reply-To: thing, so it is for sure going to the 
right program.   

	Do you have a suggestion where I could look to figure out what I have
set up wrong?  

-Don



From kmenard at WPI.EDU  Thu Oct 12 02:25:03 2000
From: kmenard at WPI.EDU (Kevin J. Menard, Jr.)
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 20:25:03 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] check_perms error
Message-ID: <05b601c033e2$dd782d40$31e8d782@kmenard>

Hi,

When I run check_perms (per the README file), get an error stating:

ImportError: No module named paths

Can anyone make heads or tails of that?  And if so, how do I fix it?

Thanks,
-Kevin




From Dan.Mick at West.Sun.COM  Thu Oct 12 03:03:37 2000
From: Dan.Mick at West.Sun.COM (Dan Mick)
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 18:03:37 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Very close . . .
Message-ID: <200010120102.SAA28361@utopia.west.sun.com>

Cron?

> 	I am stuck on getting mailman to work and I am sure it is something
> simple.  
> 
> 	When I reply to the message I get from mailman, I do not get signed up.
> I can see in /var/log/syslog that it is calling wrapper with mailcmd test 
> and there are no error messages in the log/error file.   The subscribe file 
> has a message: test: pending steiny at infopoint.com.    However, I never get
> a message telling me I am signed up and when I go to the Web page for the
> list no users are signed up.
> 
> 	I am using mailman-2.0beta6 - Solaris 7 - Pyton-1.6 and I put in
> the patch for the Reply-To: thing, so it is for sure going to the 
> right program.   
> 
> 	Do you have a suggestion where I could look to figure out what I have
> set up wrong?  
> 
> -Don
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users maillist  -  Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users





From Dan.Mick at West.Sun.COM  Thu Oct 12 03:07:17 2000
From: Dan.Mick at West.Sun.COM (Dan Mick)
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 18:07:17 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] check_perms error
Message-ID: <200010120106.SAA28483@utopia.west.sun.com>

I assume you mean "per the INSTALL file".

1) where did you install mailman (i.e. what is $prefix)
2) where are you running check_perms from?
3) is there a paths.py in the same directory as check_perms?
4) try python -v bin/check_perms from $prefix.

> Hi,
> 
> When I run check_perms (per the README file), get an error stating:
> 
> ImportError: No module named paths
> 
> Can anyone make heads or tails of that?  And if so, how do I fix it?
> 
> Thanks,
> -Kevin
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users maillist  -  Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users





From Dan.Mick at West.Sun.COM  Thu Oct 12 03:17:32 2000
From: Dan.Mick at West.Sun.COM (Dan Mick)
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 18:17:32 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] "Authentication failed".
Message-ID: <200010120116.SAA28764@utopia.west.sun.com>

> I have installed mailman-2.0beta6 on a test machine and followed all of
> the instructions quite closely. I have created a test list, with an
> administrative password of foo. When I attempt to log in to the
> administrative pages I ma told "Authentication failed". 

Is this "Authentication failed" in red at the top of the page that
looks just like the admin login page except for that red text?

What happens if you try the site password?

If the site password works, try changing the list password to foo
again, logging out, and logging back in with foo.  Seems like
there's a reasonable chance you really don't have 'foo' as the
password; maybe it included the quotes or something.
 
> I have examined the situation closely, and I am absolutely certain that the
> httpd server (apache) is passing all of the correct information to the
> admin program (by way of stdin and environment variables). I have looked
> through all of the documentation and the FAQ and found nothing that
> indicates why this might be happening. However, strace did mention a
> variety of failures related to opening/finding md5 files in
> ~mailman/Mailman directory -- could this be the problem?

When you say "md5 files", what do you mean?  (What are some of the exact
filenames strace is reporting that admin is trying to open?) 

Is Defaults.py/mm_cfg.py's setting of USE_CRYPT still 1?

What does the following Python program output?  (put in /tmp/tmp.py
and invoke python /tmp/tmp.py).  If it outputs "couldn't find 
crypt", try it with "python -v".

try:
   from crypt import crypt
   print "got crypt"
except ImportError:
   print "couldn't find crypt"




From Dan.Mick at West.Sun.COM  Thu Oct 12 03:21:25 2000
From: Dan.Mick at West.Sun.COM (Dan Mick)
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 18:21:25 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Reply-To munging munges -reguest address as well
Message-ID: <200010120120.SAA28979@utopia.west.sun.com>

> This morning there are three subscribe confirms in my inbox that have
> been
> sent to the list.  It seems that the Reply-To: field had bee munged to
> point at the list.  Odd.

SourceForge bug 115253, fixed in revision 1.14 of Handlers/CookHeaders.py,
which is not yet in a released tarball (available from CVS).




From marouni at earlham.edu  Thu Oct 12 16:23:57 2000
From: marouni at earlham.edu (Nick Marouf)
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 09:23:57 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Sending to multiple lists problem
Message-ID: <39E5C97D.E8A6D522@earlham.edu>

Hi all,
	I've sent out an email about this from before, and checked the bugs
page, but with still the same problem.

When I send a message to more that one list, only one of them gets to
the list. I have been trying to find patterns for this, with no luck.
However I get the mailog for a msg ID and I get this back

--------------------
[root at yang qfiles]# grep  VAA15050 /var/log/maillog
Oct 11 21:44:08 yang sendmail[15050]: VAA15050:
from=<marouf at earlham.edu>, size=576, class=0, pri=90576, nrcpts=3,
msgid=<39E5252F.8B2CB1DD at earlham.edu>, proto=ESMTP,
relay=IDENT:marouf at blackened.student.earlham.edu [159.28.163.72]
Oct 11 21:44:08 yang sendmail[15051]: VAA15050: to="|
/home/software/mailman/mail/wrapper post dusko-test" , delay=00:00:00,
xdelay=00:00:00, mailer=prog, stat=Sent
Oct 11 21:44:09 yang sendmail[15051]: VAA15050: to="|
/home/software/mailman/mail/wrapper post tomstest" , delay=00:00:01,
xdelay=00:00:01, mailer=prog, stat=Sent
Oct 11 21:44:09 yang sendmail[15051]: VAA15050:
to="|/home/software/mailman/mail/wrapper post test", delay=00:00:01,
xdelay=00:00:00, mailer=prog, stat=Sent
[root at yang qfiles]# 

-------------------------

[root at yang qfiles]# grep VAA15050 *
db87ce92166797b4fb87d4567287e6719aae35b9.msg:   by earlham.edu
(8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP
id VAA15050;
e8196ba32d986fda376810890252a5a409af9013.msg:   by earlham.edu
(8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP
id VAA15050;
f0b0d1938a6b4c018dd3972a82f8da088519dc5a.msg:   by earlham.edu
(8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP
id VAA15050;
[root at yang qfiles]# 


----------------------------

I only get one message, the other two mailing list have different users
in them, just incase sendmail was being smart and checking if the user
aliases go  to the same user.
 
Does anyone have this problem, or has it, Just to know that I am not the
only one running into it. And any help would be grateley appreciated.

TIA,
Nick 

Running Beta6 on RH6.2



-- 
Nicholas Marouf || Earlham College || Assistant System Administrator. 
http://www.ramallahonline.com



From sbaron at wiwi.hu-berlin.de  Thu Oct 12 16:19:47 2000
From: sbaron at wiwi.hu-berlin.de (Steffan Baron)
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 16:19:47 +0200 (MET DST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] endless loop
Message-ID: <200010121419.QAA01693@macke.wiwi.hu-berlin.de>

Hello,

I've just installed mailman and created a testlist to which I've sent some test
mails. Some of those postings have not been delivered because their destination
was given implicit. The problem now is that I can't approve them. Whenever I
click the "Submit All Data" button (no matter if choose to approve, to reject or
to discard the posting) I am redirected to the administration authentication.
The same happens if I want to change the configuration for the list. Whenever I
submit my changes I am redirected to the password page (and my changes take no
effect). There were no errors in the log. I'm using mailman 1.1 on Linux.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

cheers,
Steffan


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From ppriest at hydraweb.com  Thu Oct 12 16:36:23 2000
From: ppriest at hydraweb.com (Philip Priest)
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 10:36:23 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Sending to multiple lists problem
In-Reply-To: <39E5C97D.E8A6D522@earlham.edu>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0010121032310.9036-100000@70chevelle.dev.hydraweb.com>

Try using "Cc:" and "Bcc:". These might be more succesfull that using the
good old "To:" line.

Thanx, Philip S. Priest.

On Thu, 12 Oct 2000, Nick Marouf wrote:

> Hi all,
> 	I've sent out an email about this from before, and checked the bugs
> page, but with still the same problem.
> 
> When I send a message to more that one list, only one of them gets to
> the list. I have been trying to find patterns for this, with no luck.
> However I get the mailog for a msg ID and I get this back
> 
> --------------------
> [root at yang qfiles]# grep  VAA15050 /var/log/maillog
> Oct 11 21:44:08 yang sendmail[15050]: VAA15050:
> from=<marouf at earlham.edu>, size=576, class=0, pri=90576, nrcpts=3,
> msgid=<39E5252F.8B2CB1DD at earlham.edu>, proto=ESMTP,
> relay=IDENT:marouf at blackened.student.earlham.edu [159.28.163.72]
> Oct 11 21:44:08 yang sendmail[15051]: VAA15050: to="|
> /home/software/mailman/mail/wrapper post dusko-test" , delay=00:00:00,
> xdelay=00:00:00, mailer=prog, stat=Sent
> Oct 11 21:44:09 yang sendmail[15051]: VAA15050: to="|
> /home/software/mailman/mail/wrapper post tomstest" , delay=00:00:01,
> xdelay=00:00:01, mailer=prog, stat=Sent
> Oct 11 21:44:09 yang sendmail[15051]: VAA15050:
> to="|/home/software/mailman/mail/wrapper post test", delay=00:00:01,
> xdelay=00:00:00, mailer=prog, stat=Sent
> [root at yang qfiles]# 
> 
> -------------------------
> 
> [root at yang qfiles]# grep VAA15050 *
> db87ce92166797b4fb87d4567287e6719aae35b9.msg:   by earlham.edu
> (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP
> id VAA15050;
> e8196ba32d986fda376810890252a5a409af9013.msg:   by earlham.edu
> (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP
> id VAA15050;
> f0b0d1938a6b4c018dd3972a82f8da088519dc5a.msg:   by earlham.edu
> (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP
> id VAA15050;
> [root at yang qfiles]# 
> 
> 
> ----------------------------
> 
> I only get one message, the other two mailing list have different users
> in them, just incase sendmail was being smart and checking if the user
> aliases go  to the same user.
>  
> Does anyone have this problem, or has it, Just to know that I am not the
> only one running into it. And any help would be grateley appreciated.
> 
> TIA,
> Nick 
> 
> Running Beta6 on RH6.2
> 
> 
> 
> 




From sbaron at wiwi.hu-berlin.de  Thu Oct 12 17:43:59 2000
From: sbaron at wiwi.hu-berlin.de (Steffan Baron)
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 17:43:59 +0200 (MET DST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] endless loop
In-Reply-To: <200010121419.QAA01693@macke.wiwi.hu-berlin.de> from "Steffan Baron" at Oct 12, 2000 04:19:47 PM
Message-ID: <200010121543.RAA01767@macke.wiwi.hu-berlin.de>

>
>I've just installed mailman and created a testlist to which I've sent some test
>mails. Some of those postings have not been delivered because their destination
>was given implicit. The problem now is that I can't approve them. Whenever I
>click the "Submit All Data" button (no matter if choose to approve, to reject or
>to discard the posting) I am redirected to the administration authentication.
>The same happens if I want to change the configuration for the list. Whenever I
>submit my changes I am redirected to the password page (and my changes take no
>effect). There were no errors in the log. I'm using mailman 1.1 on Linux.

Sorry, I didn't know that I had to enable cookies ....

Steffan


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From krovich at loki.pinpoint.com  Thu Oct 12 19:33:58 2000
From: krovich at loki.pinpoint.com (Dave Krovich)
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 13:33:58 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman problem
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0010121320380.31821-100000@loki.pinpoint.com>

	Ok, I've got a problem with mailman that I can't figure out.
I'm running Redhat 6.2 with Sendmail 8.11.1 and mailman 2.0 beta 6.

	I'm am able to create a new list, and I can access the web
interface by using http://www.mydomain.com/mailman/admin.

	The problem is when I try and post a message to the list, it
just seems to go into a black hole.  I checked /var/log/maillog, and
it looks like it's running the wrapper script fine.  I'm not getting
any of complaints about the wrong gid, or a smrsh problem.  

	Here is an entry from /var/log/maillog:


Oct 11 17:16:13 loki
sendmail[20811]: e9BLGD720809: to="|/usr/local/mailman/mail/wrapper post
test", ctladdr=<test at mydomain.com> (8/0), delay=00:00:00, xdelay=00:00:00,
mailer=prog, pri=30043, dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent

	Is there any want to run the wrapper script in some sort
of debug mode so I can get more of an idea about whats happening?  Or
does anyone have tips on what my problem might be?




From ckolar at admin.aurora.edu  Thu Oct 12 20:27:05 2000
From: ckolar at admin.aurora.edu (Christopher Kolar)
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 13:27:05 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] 2b6 hangs compiling versions.py
Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20001012132435.03904e90@admin.aurora.edu>

I am running 2b3 under RH 6.1 python 1.5.2.  I am (trying to) upgrade to b6 
and I get this behavior after running make install

Thanks in advance for assistance, it appears that my site is broken as it 
dies half way through the process.

--chris

-----
Compiling /home/mailman/Mailman/pythonlib/smtplib.py ...
Compiling /home/mailman/Mailman/pythonlib/tempfile.py ...
Compiling /home/mailman/Mailman/versions.py ...
	[make stop here, I have to ctrl-c out of it and then I get]
Traceback (innermost last):
   File "bin/update", line 332, in ?
     main()
   File "bin/update", line 270, in main
     dolist(list)
   File "bin/update", line 77, in dolist
     l = MailList.MailList(list)
   File "/home/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 77, in __init__
     self.Lock()
   File "/home/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 1317, in Lock
     self.__lock.lock(timeout)
   File "/home/mailman/Mailman/LockFile.py", line 282, in lock
     self.__sleep()
   File "/home/mailman/Mailman/LockFile.py", line 420, in __sleep
     time.sleep(interval)
KeyboardInterrupt
make: *** [update] Error 130




From ckolar at admin.aurora.edu  Thu Oct 12 20:40:00 2000
From: ckolar at admin.aurora.edu (Christopher Kolar)
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 13:40:00 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] new headers are ugly
Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20001012133516.03609968@admin.aurora.edu>

I don't know if it was done to be in compliance with any RFP header 
guidelines, but looking at list traffic in a normal Joe User mail client 
the new headers take up a lot of screen space and make it cumbersome to get 
to the message itself.  Any chance that you could use either the http: or 
mailto: component, but not both?  This has more to do with beauty than 
functionality, but having looked at things on some end user PCs I the new 
scheme requires more scrolling for short messages.

--chris

(just making up problems while trying to figure out why b6 won't build for me)




From chuqui at plaidworks.com  Thu Oct 12 20:58:46 2000
From: chuqui at plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach)
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 11:58:46 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] new headers are ugly
In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20001012133516.03609968@admin.aurora.edu>
References: <5.0.0.25.2.20001012133516.03609968@admin.aurora.edu>
Message-ID: <p04330100b60bba2d2d0a@[17.216.27.227]>

At 1:40 PM -0500 10/12/00, Christopher Kolar wrote:
>I don't know if it was done to be in compliance with any RFP header 
>guidelines,

yes, it was. I believe Barry's added a patch to wrap them better.

>functionality, but having looked at things on some end user PCs I 
>the new scheme requires more scrolling for short messages.

good mailers give you a feature to define which headers you don't 
want to view. I suggest that's a better avenue for this, since each 
user can customize to their preferences...

-- 
Chuq Von Rospach - Plaidworks Consulting (mailto:chuqui at plaidworks.com)
Apple Mail List Gnome (mailto:chuq at apple.com)

Be just, and fear not.



From marouni at earlham.edu  Thu Oct 12 21:19:20 2000
From: marouni at earlham.edu (Nick Marouf)
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 14:19:20 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Sending to multiple lists problem
References: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0010121032310.9036-100000@70chevelle.dev.hydraweb.com>
Message-ID: <39E60EB8.940E8CA0@earlham.edu>

Hi,
	I can only put one address in either the to: cc: or bcc: fields for the
mailing lists to each get a copy of the message, but If I add more than
one list per field, only one of them gets the message.

Any more help would be appreciated.

thanks
Nick


Philip Priest wrote:
> 
> Try using "Cc:" and "Bcc:". These might be more succesfull that using the
> good old "To:" line.
> 
> Thanx, Philip S. Priest.
> 
> On Thu, 12 Oct 2000, Nick Marouf wrote:
> 
> > Hi all,
> >       I've sent out an email about this from before, and checked the bugs
> > page, but with still the same problem.
> >
> > When I send a message to more that one list, only one of them gets to
> > the list. I have been trying to find patterns for this, with no luck.
> > However I get the mailog for a msg ID and I get this back
> >
> > --------------------
> > [root at yang qfiles]# grep  VAA15050 /var/log/maillog
> > Oct 11 21:44:08 yang sendmail[15050]: VAA15050:
> > from=<marouf at earlham.edu>, size=576, class=0, pri=90576, nrcpts=3,
> > msgid=<39E5252F.8B2CB1DD at earlham.edu>, proto=ESMTP,
> > relay=IDENT:marouf at blackened.student.earlham.edu [159.28.163.72]
> > Oct 11 21:44:08 yang sendmail[15051]: VAA15050: to="|
> > /home/software/mailman/mail/wrapper post dusko-test" , delay=00:00:00,
> > xdelay=00:00:00, mailer=prog, stat=Sent
> > Oct 11 21:44:09 yang sendmail[15051]: VAA15050: to="|
> > /home/software/mailman/mail/wrapper post tomstest" , delay=00:00:01,
> > xdelay=00:00:01, mailer=prog, stat=Sent
> > Oct 11 21:44:09 yang sendmail[15051]: VAA15050:
> > to="|/home/software/mailman/mail/wrapper post test", delay=00:00:01,
> > xdelay=00:00:00, mailer=prog, stat=Sent
> > [root at yang qfiles]#
> >
> > -------------------------
> >
> > [root at yang qfiles]# grep VAA15050 *
> > db87ce92166797b4fb87d4567287e6719aae35b9.msg:   by earlham.edu
> > (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP
> > id VAA15050;
> > e8196ba32d986fda376810890252a5a409af9013.msg:   by earlham.edu
> > (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP
> > id VAA15050;
> > f0b0d1938a6b4c018dd3972a82f8da088519dc5a.msg:   by earlham.edu
> > (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP
> > id VAA15050;
> > [root at yang qfiles]#
> >
> >
> > ----------------------------
> >
> > I only get one message, the other two mailing list have different users
> > in them, just incase sendmail was being smart and checking if the user
> > aliases go  to the same user.
> >
> > Does anyone have this problem, or has it, Just to know that I am not the
> > only one running into it. And any help would be grateley appreciated.
> >
> > TIA,
> > Nick
> >
> > Running Beta6 on RH6.2


--
Nick Marouf
http://www.ramallahonline.com



From Dan.Mick at west.sun.com  Thu Oct 12 21:43:51 2000
From: Dan.Mick at west.sun.com (Dan Mick)
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 12:43:51 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman problem
References: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0010121320380.31821-100000@loki.pinpoint.com>
Message-ID: <39E61477.F65343FA@west.sun.com>

All together now, in a chorus:

Cron?


Dave Krovich wrote:
> 
>         Ok, I've got a problem with mailman that I can't figure out.
> I'm running Redhat 6.2 with Sendmail 8.11.1 and mailman 2.0 beta 6.
> 
>         I'm am able to create a new list, and I can access the web
> interface by using http://www.mydomain.com/mailman/admin.
> 
>         The problem is when I try and post a message to the list, it
> just seems to go into a black hole.  I checked /var/log/maillog, and
> it looks like it's running the wrapper script fine.  I'm not getting
> any of complaints about the wrong gid, or a smrsh problem.
> 
>         Here is an entry from /var/log/maillog:
> 
> Oct 11 17:16:13 loki
> sendmail[20811]: e9BLGD720809: to="|/usr/local/mailman/mail/wrapper post
> test", ctladdr=<test at mydomain.com> (8/0), delay=00:00:00, xdelay=00:00:00,
> mailer=prog, pri=30043, dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent
> 
>         Is there any want to run the wrapper script in some sort
> of debug mode so I can get more of an idea about whats happening?  Or
> does anyone have tips on what my problem might be?
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users maillist  -  Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users



From johnny at cathat.net  Thu Oct 12 21:43:09 2000
From: johnny at cathat.net (Johnny Fuerst)
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 14:43:09 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] getting error: "Command died with status 2:"
Message-ID: <20001012144308.A908@cathat.net>

Hello All,

I am getting errors when I try to send messages to me mailman test
mailinglist. the e-mail address for posting to the address is
test at cathat.net. I encourage anyone to send a test message to
"test at cathat.net" and they will receive an 'Undelivered Mail' message,
which basically states the reason as being:

                        The Postfix program

<test at cathat.net>: Command died with status 2: 
"/home/mailman/mail/wrapper post test"

It appears that there is a problem with running the wrapper.
In total, I am not sure what is happening, and I have not seen answers to
this question in all of the mailman-users archives. So, I thought that I'd
take my stab at asking. Does anyone know how to resolve this problem? Any
assistance would be great, or even some thoughts would be swell!

Thanks for everyone's time and patience in reading this.

Sincerely,
Johnny

-- 
On Behalf Of:
Johnny Fuerst, Governor ................ governor at cathat.net
Opinions stated in this message are mine and mine alone, and
do not necessarily represent those of my ISP/employer!
.period.
------------------------------------------------------------
          'I Desire Compassion, and not a Sacrifice.'
                       'La Vida E Bella'

____________________________
Random Quote:
Get forgiveness now -- tomorrow you may no longer feel guilty.
johnny at cathat.net



From Dan.Mick at west.sun.com  Thu Oct 12 21:48:59 2000
From: Dan.Mick at west.sun.com (Dan Mick)
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 12:48:59 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] 2b6 hangs compiling versions.py
References: <5.0.0.25.2.20001012132435.03904e90@admin.aurora.edu>
Message-ID: <39E615AB.AED8C738@west.sun.com>

Clearly, one of the lists is locked.  Did you quiesce mailman first
(turn off cron and sendmail)?  If so, go remove the lock(s) in ~mailman/locks
and try the install again.  (It's not compiling; it's doing the update check.
versions.py is the last thing it compiles, and that's complete.)


Christopher Kolar wrote:
> 
> I am running 2b3 under RH 6.1 python 1.5.2.  I am (trying to) upgrade to b6
> and I get this behavior after running make install
> 
> Thanks in advance for assistance, it appears that my site is broken as it
> dies half way through the process.
> 
> --chris
> 
> -----
> Compiling /home/mailman/Mailman/pythonlib/smtplib.py ...
> Compiling /home/mailman/Mailman/pythonlib/tempfile.py ...
> Compiling /home/mailman/Mailman/versions.py ...
>         [make stop here, I have to ctrl-c out of it and then I get]
> Traceback (innermost last):
>    File "bin/update", line 332, in ?
>      main()
>    File "bin/update", line 270, in main
>      dolist(list)
>    File "bin/update", line 77, in dolist
>      l = MailList.MailList(list)
>    File "/home/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 77, in __init__
>      self.Lock()
>    File "/home/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 1317, in Lock
>      self.__lock.lock(timeout)
>    File "/home/mailman/Mailman/LockFile.py", line 282, in lock
>      self.__sleep()
>    File "/home/mailman/Mailman/LockFile.py", line 420, in __sleep
>      time.sleep(interval)
> KeyboardInterrupt
> make: *** [update] Error 130
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users maillist  -  Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users



From Dan.Mick at west.sun.com  Thu Oct 12 21:49:54 2000
From: Dan.Mick at west.sun.com (Dan Mick)
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 12:49:54 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] getting error: "Command died with status 2:"
References: <20001012144308.A908@cathat.net>
Message-ID: <39E615E2.7FB8358A@west.sun.com>

Look at your MTA's logs and find out why it's refusing the mail.


Johnny Fuerst wrote:
> 
> Hello All,
> 
> I am getting errors when I try to send messages to me mailman test
> mailinglist. the e-mail address for posting to the address is
> test at cathat.net. I encourage anyone to send a test message to
> "test at cathat.net" and they will receive an 'Undelivered Mail' message,
> which basically states the reason as being:
> 
>                         The Postfix program
> 
> <test at cathat.net>: Command died with status 2:
> "/home/mailman/mail/wrapper post test"
> 
> It appears that there is a problem with running the wrapper.
> In total, I am not sure what is happening, and I have not seen answers to
> this question in all of the mailman-users archives. So, I thought that I'd
> take my stab at asking. Does anyone know how to resolve this problem? Any
> assistance would be great, or even some thoughts would be swell!
> 
> Thanks for everyone's time and patience in reading this.
> 
> Sincerely,
> Johnny
> 
> --
> On Behalf Of:
> Johnny Fuerst, Governor ................ governor at cathat.net
> Opinions stated in this message are mine and mine alone, and
> do not necessarily represent those of my ISP/employer!
> .period.
> ------------------------------------------------------------
>           'I Desire Compassion, and not a Sacrifice.'
>                        'La Vida E Bella'
> 
> ____________________________
> Random Quote:
> Get forgiveness now -- tomorrow you may no longer feel guilty.
> johnny at cathat.net
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users maillist  -  Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users



From burriskm at slip.net  Thu Oct 12 21:54:45 2000
From: burriskm at slip.net (Keith Burris)
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 12:54:45 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] subject_prefix and Outlook 2000
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.1000928135540.7436A-100000@slip-3.slip.net>

We are using beta6 to provide distribution lists for our various internal
e-mail systems. I have noticed that the subject_prefix is rarely prepended
when senders from our Outlook 2000/Exchange system send messages to a
list, but it is always prepended to the subject of messages originating on
the other e-mail systems.

Aside from suggesting we nuke the Outlook/Exchange system (not gonna
happen), does anyone have an idea why this is happening and if anything
can be done to correct it?

Thanks in advance!




From dan at ssc.com  Thu Oct 12 22:22:41 2000
From: dan at ssc.com (Dan Wilder)
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 13:22:41 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] subject_prefix and Outlook 2000
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.3.96.1000928135540.7436A-100000@slip-3.slip.net>; from burriskm@slip.net on Thu, Oct 12, 2000 at 12:54:45PM -0700
References: <Pine.GSO.3.96.1000928135540.7436A-100000@slip-3.slip.net>
Message-ID: <20001012132241.B6152@ssc.com>

On Thu, Oct 12, 2000 at 12:54:45PM -0700, Keith Burris wrote:
> We are using beta6 to provide distribution lists for our various internal
> e-mail systems. I have noticed that the subject_prefix is rarely prepended
> when senders from our Outlook 2000/Exchange system send messages to a
> list, but it is always prepended to the subject of messages originating on
> the other e-mail systems.
> 
> Aside from suggesting we nuke the Outlook/Exchange system (not gonna
> happen), does anyone have an idea why this is happening and if anything
> can be done to correct it?

Any idea what the headers look like, going into Mailman?

If they're RFC-compliant, it's a Mailman bug; if not, I'd
say it is an Outlook/Exchange bug.  Talk to MS.  Good luck!

A small procmail/formail arrangement on the front end of the 
pipeline into Mailman should be able to compensate for the 
problem, in the latter case.

-----------------------------------------------------------------
 Dan Wilder <dan at ssc.com>             Technical Manager
 SSC, Inc. P.O. Box 55549             Phone:  206-782-7733 x123
 Seattle, WA  98155-0549              URL     http://www.ssc.com/
-----------------------------------------------------------------



From ckolar at admin.aurora.edu  Thu Oct 12 23:01:20 2000
From: ckolar at admin.aurora.edu (Christopher Kolar)
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 16:01:20 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] 2b6 hangs compiling versions.py
In-Reply-To: <39E615AB.AED8C738@west.sun.com>
References: <5.0.0.25.2.20001012132435.03904e90@admin.aurora.edu>
Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20001012160058.02438de8@admin.aurora.edu>

That did it, thanks Dan!

--chris

At 02:48 PM 10/12/2000, Dan wrote:
>Clearly, one of the lists is locked.  Did you quiesce mailman first
>(turn off cron and sendmail)?  If so, go remove the lock(s) in ~mailman/locks
>and try the install again.  (It's not compiling; it's doing the update check.
>versions.py is the last thing it compiles, and that's complete.)
>
>
>Christopher Kolar wrote:
> >
> > I am running 2b3 under RH 6.1 python 1.5.2.  I am (trying to) upgrade to b6
> > and I get this behavior after running make install
> >
> > Thanks in advance for assistance, it appears that my site is broken as it
> > dies half way through the process.
> >
> > --chris
> >
> > -----
> > Compiling /home/mailman/Mailman/pythonlib/smtplib.py ...
> > Compiling /home/mailman/Mailman/pythonlib/tempfile.py ...
> > Compiling /home/mailman/Mailman/versions.py ...
> >         [make stop here, I have to ctrl-c out of it and then I get]
> > Traceback (innermost last):
> >    File "bin/update", line 332, in ?
> >      main()
> >    File "bin/update", line 270, in main
> >      dolist(list)
> >    File "bin/update", line 77, in dolist
> >      l = MailList.MailList(list)
> >    File "/home/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 77, in __init__
> >      self.Lock()
> >    File "/home/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 1317, in Lock
> >      self.__lock.lock(timeout)
> >    File "/home/mailman/Mailman/LockFile.py", line 282, in lock
> >      self.__sleep()
> >    File "/home/mailman/Mailman/LockFile.py", line 420, in __sleep
> >      time.sleep(interval)
> > KeyboardInterrupt
> > make: *** [update] Error 130
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------
> > Mailman-Users maillist  -  Mailman-Users at python.org
> > http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users




From tpot at linuxcare.com.au  Fri Oct 13 00:21:23 2000
From: tpot at linuxcare.com.au (Tim Potter)
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 09:21:23 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] MIME attachments in digest
Message-ID: <14822.14691.802521.304184@gargle.gargle.HOWL>

I run a couple of medium volume lists using mailman and have
noticed that that the digestifier doesn't seem to strip out any
mime headers or otherwise unreadable content from messages before
digestifing them.

Does anyone have any tips for this?  It's pretty annoying having
to page through text versions then html versions of messages in a
digest.


Regards,

Tim.




From dgc at uchicago.edu  Fri Oct 13 00:30:06 2000
From: dgc at uchicago.edu (David Champion)
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 17:30:06 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: MIME attachments in digest
In-Reply-To: <14822.14691.802521.304184@gargle.gargle.HOWL>; from tpot@linuxcare.com.au on Fri, Oct 13, 2000 at 09:21:23AM +1100
References: <14822.14691.802521.304184@gargle.gargle.HOWL>
Message-ID: <20001012173006.M18564@smack.uchicago.edu>

On 2000.10.12, in <14822.14691.802521.304184 at gargle.gargle.HOWL>,
	"Tim Potter" <tpot at linuxcare.com.au> wrote:
> I run a couple of medium volume lists using mailman and have
> noticed that that the digestifier doesn't seem to strip out any
> mime headers or otherwise unreadable content from messages before
> digestifing them.
> 
> Does anyone have any tips for this?  It's pretty annoying having
> to page through text versions then html versions of messages in a
> digest.

You can enable MIME digests in your subscriber options.

-- 
 -D.	dgc at uchicago.edu	NSIT	University of Chicago



From krovich at loki.pinpoint.com  Fri Oct 13 00:50:17 2000
From: krovich at loki.pinpoint.com (Dave Krovich)
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 18:50:17 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman problem
In-Reply-To: <39E61477.F65343FA@west.sun.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0010121847120.32453-100000@loki.pinpoint.com>

	Ok, I feel shamed and am now slinking back under my rock.

	Thanks much for your help!!!	

On Thu, 12 Oct 2000, Dan Mick wrote:

> All together now, in a chorus:
> 
> Cron?
> 
> 
> Dave Krovich wrote:
> > 
> >         Ok, I've got a problem with mailman that I can't figure out.
> > I'm running Redhat 6.2 with Sendmail 8.11.1 and mailman 2.0 beta 6.
> > 
> >         I'm am able to create a new list, and I can access the web
> > interface by using http://www.mydomain.com/mailman/admin.
> > 
> >         The problem is when I try and post a message to the list, it
> > just seems to go into a black hole.  I checked /var/log/maillog, and
> > it looks like it's running the wrapper script fine.  I'm not getting
> > any of complaints about the wrong gid, or a smrsh problem.
> > 
> >         Here is an entry from /var/log/maillog:
> > 
> > Oct 11 17:16:13 loki
> > sendmail[20811]: e9BLGD720809: to="|/usr/local/mailman/mail/wrapper post
> > test", ctladdr=<test at mydomain.com> (8/0), delay=00:00:00, xdelay=00:00:00,
> > mailer=prog, pri=30043, dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent
> > 
> >         Is there any want to run the wrapper script in some sort
> > of debug mode so I can get more of an idea about whats happening?  Or
> > does anyone have tips on what my problem might be?
> > 
> > ------------------------------------------------------
> > Mailman-Users maillist  -  Mailman-Users at python.org
> > http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users maillist  -  Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> 





From tpot at linuxcare.com.au  Fri Oct 13 00:54:50 2000
From: tpot at linuxcare.com.au (Tim Potter)
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 09:54:50 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: MIME attachments in digest
In-Reply-To: <20001012173006.M18564@smack.uchicago.edu>
References: <14822.14691.802521.304184@gargle.gargle.HOWL>
	<20001012173006.M18564@smack.uchicago.edu>
Message-ID: <14822.16698.423769.597082@gargle.gargle.HOWL>

David Champion writes:

> On 2000.10.12, in <14822.14691.802521.304184 at gargle.gargle.HOWL>,
> 	"Tim Potter" <tpot at linuxcare.com.au> wrote:
> > I run a couple of medium volume lists using mailman and have
> > noticed that that the digestifier doesn't seem to strip out any
> > mime headers or otherwise unreadable content from messages before
> > digestifing them.
> > 
> > Does anyone have any tips for this?  It's pretty annoying having
> > to page through text versions then html versions of messages in a
> > digest.
> 
> You can enable MIME digests in your subscriber options.

True, but that doesn't stop the people receiving the plain
digests from having MIME data in their digest.


Tim.




From chuqui at plaidworks.com  Fri Oct 13 01:03:35 2000
From: chuqui at plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach)
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 16:03:35 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: MIME attachments in digest
In-Reply-To: <14822.16698.423769.597082@gargle.gargle.HOWL>
References: <14822.14691.802521.304184@gargle.gargle.HOWL>
 <20001012173006.M18564@smack.uchicago.edu>
 <14822.16698.423769.597082@gargle.gargle.HOWL>
Message-ID: <p0433010db60bf34f1aaa@[17.216.27.227]>

At 9:54 AM +1100 10/13/00, Tim Potter wrote:

>True, but that doesn't stop the people receiving the plain
>digests from having MIME data in their digest.
>

there's always going to be some inconsistency and conflict here. I 
don't know anyone who does it well for everyone unless they do (like 
we do for a lot of our stuff) separate enhanced and plain versions of 
postings.

If you want to avoid the issue, you can use something like de-mime to 
strip all but the text part off messages. That's what I do on a 
couple of list servers I run, mostly because I haven't gotten to the 
point of writing a customer "active content" filter and I'd rather go 
with no mime than risk letting active content through that could 
contain viruses.

-- 
Chuq Von Rospach - Plaidworks Consulting (mailto:chuqui at plaidworks.com)
Apple Mail List Gnome (mailto:chuq at apple.com)

Be just, and fear not.



From alex at phred.org  Fri Oct 13 16:10:19 2000
From: alex at phred.org (alex wetmore)
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 07:10:19 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] MIME attachments in digest
In-Reply-To: <14822.14691.802521.304184@gargle.gargle.HOWL>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.21.0010130707340.29993-100000@phred.org>

On Fri, 13 Oct 2000, Tim Potter wrote:
> I run a couple of medium volume lists using mailman and have
> noticed that that the digestifier doesn't seem to strip out any
> mime headers or otherwise unreadable content from messages before
> digestifing them.
> 
> Does anyone have any tips for this?  It's pretty annoying having
> to page through text versions then html versions of messages in a
> digest.

I have a perl filter at http://www.phred.org/~alex/stripmime.pl which
will remove all non-ascii MIME parts from your messages before they
make it to mailman.

Usage is simple.  Add it before mailman in your /etc/aliases:
internet-bob:            "|/usr/local/bin/stripmime.pl|/usr2/local/mailman/mail/
wrapper post internet-bob"
internet-bob-admin:      "|/usr2/local/mailman/mail/wrapper mailowner internet-b
ob"
internet-bob-request:    "|/usr2/local/mailman/mail/wrapper mailcmd internet-bob
"
owner-internet-bob:      internet-bob-admin
internet-bob-owner:      internet-bob-admin

There are similar scripts listed on freshmeat.net.  The main
difference between my script and the others available is that I
don't ever read the whole message into memory, or write it down to
disk.  My filter operates one line at a time and has a minimal
memory footprint.  I've been running it for about 8 months now.

alex




From jwblist at olympus.net  Fri Oct 13 17:06:40 2000
From: jwblist at olympus.net (John W Baxter)
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 08:06:40 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman problem
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0010121847120.32453-100000@loki.pinpoint.com>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0010121847120.32453-100000@loki.pinpoint.com>
Message-ID: <p05001901b60cd51ad82e@[207.149.192.229]>

At 18:50 -0400 10/12/00, Dave Krovich wrote:
>	Ok, I feel shamed and am now slinking back under my rock.
>
>	Thanks much for your help!!!
>
>On Thu, 12 Oct 2000, Dan Mick wrote:
>
>> All together now, in a chorus:
>>
>> Cron?

This FAQ is almost as much "fun" as the broken Perl in RedHat 5.2 which
broke Majordomo in the RH 5.2 timeframe.

   --John
-- 
John Baxter   jwblist at olympus.net      Port Ludlow, WA, USA



From William.P.McGonigle at artoo.hitchcock.org  Fri Oct 13 17:38:25 2000
From: William.P.McGonigle at artoo.hitchcock.org (William P. McGonigle)
Date: 13 Oct 2000 11:38:25 EDT
Subject: [Mailman-Users] "Authentication failed".
Message-ID: <154302@anoat.hitchcock.org.artoo.hitchcock.org>

--- Dan Mick wrote:
Is Defaults.py/mm_cfg.py's setting of USE_CRYPT still 1?

What does the following Python program output?  (put in /tmp/tmp.py
and invoke python /tmp/tmp.py).  If it outputs "couldn't find 
crypt", try it with "python -v".

try:
   from crypt import crypt
   print "got crypt"
except ImportError:
   print "couldn't find crypt"
--- end of quote ---

I've been having the same problem - USE_CRYPT is set to 1, the output of the test program follows.  Sorry, I'm new to python (and don't ask how dusty my learning python book is. ;) )

-Bill

-----

# /usr/local/lib/python1.6/exceptions.pyc matches /usr/local/lib/python1.6/exceptions.py
import exceptions # precompiled from /usr/local/lib/python1.6/exceptions.pyc
# /usr/local/lib/python1.6/site.pyc matches /usr/local/lib/python1.6/site.py
import site # precompiled from /usr/local/lib/python1.6/site.pyc
# /usr/local/lib/python1.6/os.pyc matches /usr/local/lib/python1.6/os.py
import os # precompiled from /usr/local/lib/python1.6/os.pyc
import posix # builtin
# /usr/local/lib/python1.6/posixpath.pyc matches /usr/local/lib/python1.6/posixpath.py
import posixpath # precompiled from /usr/local/lib/python1.6/posixpath.pyc
# /usr/local/lib/python1.6/stat.pyc matches /usr/local/lib/python1.6/stat.py
import stat # precompiled from /usr/local/lib/python1.6/stat.pyc
# /usr/local/lib/python1.6/UserDict.pyc matches /usr/local/lib/python1.6/UserDict.py
import UserDict # precompiled from /usr/local/lib/python1.6/UserDict.pyc
Python 1.6 (#1, Oct  6 2000, 14:13:07)  [GCC egcs-2.91.66 19990314/Linux (egcs-1.1.2 release)] on linux2
Copyright (c) 1995-2000 Corporation for National Research Initiatives.
All Rights Reserved.
Copyright (c) 1991-1995 Stichting Mathematisch Centrum, Amsterdam.
All Rights Reserved.
# clear __builtin__._
# clear sys.path
# clear sys.argv
# clear sys.ps1
# clear sys.ps2
# clear sys.exitfunc
# clear sys.exc_type
# clear sys.exc_value
# clear sys.exc_traceback
# clear sys.last_type
# clear sys.last_value
# clear sys.last_traceback
# restore sys.stdin
# restore sys.stdout
# restore sys.stderr
# cleanup __main__
# cleanup[1] exceptions
# cleanup[1] posix
# cleanup[1] site
# cleanup[1] signal
# cleanup[2] os.path
# cleanup[2] os
# cleanup[2] UserDict
# cleanup[2] posixpath
# cleanup[2] stat
# cleanup sys
# cleanup __builtin__
# cleanup ints: 1 unfreed int in 1 out of 3 blocks
# cleanup floats
couldn't find crypt



From callinma at gse.harvard.edu  Fri Oct 13 18:44:50 2000
From: callinma at gse.harvard.edu (Peggy Callinan)
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 12:44:50 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Delivery exception
Message-ID: <EXECMAIL.1001013124450.I@gsegx1.gse.harvard.edu>

Hello,
I'm using MM2.06B on Solaris. I've been successful using SMTPDirect, 
but have been trying to use our MTA, Innosoft'sendmail. When I then try
sending list mail, I get the followin message in the errors log:

 Oct 13 12:18:02 2000 (14411) Delivery exception: list.extend() argument must be a list
Oct 13 12:18:02 2000 (14411) Traceback (innermost last):
  File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/HandlerAPI.py", line 82, in do_pipeline
    func(mlist, msg, msgdata)
  File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/Sendmail.py", line 95, in process
    failedrecips.extend(chunk)
TypeError: list.extend() argument must be a list
 
 I've added the following entry in the mm_cfg.py:
 
 DELIVERY_MODULE = 'Sendmail'
 
 Anyone have any ideas what this error means or what I need to do? 
 Thanks.
 Peggy
 
----------------------------------------
Peggy Callinan
Email: Peggy_Callinan at harvard.edu
Harvard University Graduate School of Education




From William.P.McGonigle at artoo.hitchcock.org  Fri Oct 13 18:56:35 2000
From: William.P.McGonigle at artoo.hitchcock.org (William P. McGonigle)
Date: 13 Oct 2000 12:56:35 EDT
Subject: [Mailman-Users] "Authentication failed".
Message-ID: <154339@anoat.hitchcock.org.artoo.hitchcock.org>

A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: text/enriched
Size: 308 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20001013/8d5593ac/attachment.bin 

From RYoung at eBuilt.com  Fri Oct 13 20:34:51 2000
From: RYoung at eBuilt.com (Young, Roger)
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 11:34:51 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] auto responder
Message-ID: <AA1E32BC8A58D411A2CB0050DACEDA43750916@raptor.ebuilt.net>

I setup auto responding on two mail list and was able to get each of them to
auto respond once. 
I noticed an option at the bottom of the auto responder setup page that said
-

 "Number of days between auto-responses to either the mailing list or -admin
address from the same
        poster. Set to zero (or negative) for no grace period (i.e.
auto-respond to every message). 

this was set to 90 days initially and now I have changed it to 0 days. I
believe that since it was initially set to 90 days when I sent the first
message that I am now on a 90 day waiting list before I will get any more
auto responses. 

If this is true how can I reset the waiting period to 0 days?

If this assumption is wrong can someone explain this phenomenon. 
                                                                      

Roger Young
Unix Admin
eBuilt Inc.
(949) 609-5409




From guym at guymcarthur.com  Fri Oct 13 21:01:46 2000
From: guym at guymcarthur.com (Guy McArthur)
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 12:01:46 -0700 (MST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] confirms not being processed
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0010131156120.31511-100000@astronomica.as.arizona.edu>

Hello I have 2.0b6 set up on redhat 6.2 linux. Almost everything seems to
be fine, check perms is happy, but subscription confirmation are not being
processed. The crontab is in place for user mailman, etc. It's coexisting
with a majordomo setup, so I have a symlink called mmwrapper from
/usr/adm/sm.bin to mailman's wrapper. I can create a list, I can post to
the list (mail going to the admin), but I cannot subscribe. The subscribe
file is appended to, but apparently never processed.

What could it be? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.

-- 
   --   --    -- --     Guy "Smiley" McArthur  icq # 17470307
   __   __   __   __       
   __   __   __ - __    (520)-326-4555 home    guym at arizona.edu       
    == ==    ==   ==    (520)-615-9345 work    smiley at seds.org 




From johnny at cathat.net  Fri Oct 13 21:22:23 2000
From: johnny at cathat.net (Johnny Fuerst)
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 14:22:23 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] getting error: "Command died with status 2:"
In-Reply-To: <39E615E2.7FB8358A@west.sun.com>; from Dan.Mick@west.sun.com on Thu, Oct 12, 2000 at 12:49:54PM -0700
References: <20001012144308.A908@cathat.net> <39E615E2.7FB8358A@west.sun.com>
Message-ID: <20001013142223.A9572@cathat.net>

On Thu, Oct 12, 2000 at 12:49:54PM -0700, Dan Mick wrote:
> Look at your MTA's logs and find out why it's refusing the mail.


Arrggghh... That was pretty silly of me not to check the maillog! hahaha,
well, what can ya' do.

I found it out! -And now everything, so far, works!

For those who may be wondering how to resolve the Command died with
Status 2 error message:

All I did different is run ./configure with a different set of following
attributes:

./configure --with-mail-gid=89 --with-cgi-gid=65533

...And with the rest of the instuctions, it worked.

* Note: Those ID would be almost specific to me, so what I did is use the
	'id' command to find out the gid value of each user. However,
	you'll notice something a little more interesting; The nobody gid
	is 65534, but the 'thing', if you will, that tried to execute cgi-bin
	scripts for my apache server was using 65533, which you'll see is
	'tty'. I don't know why it wanted that, but it works, none the less.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
uid=89(mailman) gid=89(mailman) groups=89(mailman)

uid=65534(nobody) gid=65534(nobody) groups=65534(nobody)

tty:*:4:65533::0:0:Tty Sandbox:/:/sbin/nologin
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I hope this helps some people out there with the Command Died with Status
2 errors!

Sincerely,
Johnny


> Johnny Fuerst wrote:
> > 
> > Hello All,
> > 
> > I am getting errors when I try to send messages to me mailman test
> > mailinglist. the e-mail address for posting to the address is
> > test at cathat.net. I encourage anyone to send a test message to
> > "test at cathat.net" and they will receive an 'Undelivered Mail' message,
> > which basically states the reason as being:
> > 
> >                         The Postfix program
> > 
> > <test at cathat.net>: Command died with status 2:
> > "/home/mailman/mail/wrapper post test"
> > 
> > It appears that there is a problem with running the wrapper.
> > In total, I am not sure what is happening, and I have not seen answers to
> > this question in all of the mailman-users archives. So, I thought that I'd
> > take my stab at asking. Does anyone know how to resolve this problem? Any
> > assistance would be great, or even some thoughts would be swell!
> > 
> > Thanks for everyone's time and patience in reading this.
> > 
> > Sincerely,
> > Johnny
> > 
> > --
> > On Behalf Of:
> > Johnny Fuerst, Governor ................ governor at cathat.net
> > Opinions stated in this message are mine and mine alone, and
> > do not necessarily represent those of my ISP/employer!
> > .period.
> > ------------------------------------------------------------
> >           'I Desire Compassion, and not a Sacrifice.'
> >                        'La Vida E Bella'
> > 
> > ____________________________
> > Random Quote:
> > Get forgiveness now -- tomorrow you may no longer feel guilty.
> > johnny at cathat.net
> > 
> > ------------------------------------------------------
> > Mailman-Users maillist  -  Mailman-Users at python.org
> > http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users maillist  -  Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users

-- 
On Behalf Of:
Johnny Fuerst, Governor ................ governor at cathat.net
Opinions stated in this message are mine and mine alone, and
do not necessarily represent those of my ISP/employer!
.period.
------------------------------------------------------------
          'I Desire Compassion, and not a Sacrifice.'
                       'La Vida E Bella'

____________________________
Random Quote:
I hope that sometime in the future, we can pool our mutual talents and share our ideas to one day bring peace and good will to all.; You, a humble Mac salesman, and I, a networking genius, will be unstoppable! --Johnny Fuerst, In jest
johnny at cathat.net



From Dan.Mick at west.sun.com  Fri Oct 13 22:39:42 2000
From: Dan.Mick at west.sun.com (Dan Mick)
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 13:39:42 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Delivery exception
References: <EXECMAIL.1001013124450.I@gsegx1.gse.harvard.edu>
Message-ID: <39E7730E.F12081A5@west.sun.com>

This bug was fixed in 2.0beta6 by changing "extend" to "append".  Are you *certain*
you're using beta6?  Perhaps you installed the source incorrectly so that Sendmail.py
didn't get updated?

----------------------------
revision 1.10
date: 2000/08/23 18:18:02;  author: bwarsaw;  state: Exp;  lines: +1 -1
process(): Use `append' instead of `extend' to add to faildrecips.
Closes SF bug #110731.
----------------------------


Peggy Callinan wrote:
> 
> Hello,
> I'm using MM2.06B on Solaris. I've been successful using SMTPDirect,
> but have been trying to use our MTA, Innosoft'sendmail. When I then try
> sending list mail, I get the followin message in the errors log:
> 
>  Oct 13 12:18:02 2000 (14411) Delivery exception: list.extend() argument must be a list
> Oct 13 12:18:02 2000 (14411) Traceback (innermost last):
>   File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/HandlerAPI.py", line 82, in do_pipeline
>     func(mlist, msg, msgdata)
>   File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/Sendmail.py", line 95, in process
>     failedrecips.extend(chunk)
> TypeError: list.extend() argument must be a list
> 
>  I've added the following entry in the mm_cfg.py:
> 
>  DELIVERY_MODULE = 'Sendmail'
> 
>  Anyone have any ideas what this error means or what I need to do?
>  Thanks.
>  Peggy
> 
> ----------------------------------------
> Peggy Callinan
> Email: Peggy_Callinan at harvard.edu
> Harvard University Graduate School of Education
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users maillist  -  Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users



From Dan.Mick at west.sun.com  Fri Oct 13 22:48:35 2000
From: Dan.Mick at west.sun.com (Dan Mick)
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 13:48:35 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman problem
References: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0010121847120.32453-100000@loki.pinpoint.com> <p05001901b60cd51ad82e@[207.149.192.229]>
Message-ID: <39E77523.B1779B74@west.sun.com>


John W Baxter wrote:
> 
> At 18:50 -0400 10/12/00, Dave Krovich wrote:
> >       Ok, I feel shamed and am now slinking back under my rock.
> >
> >       Thanks much for your help!!!
> >
> >On Thu, 12 Oct 2000, Dan Mick wrote:
> >
> >> All together now, in a chorus:
> >>
> >> Cron?
> 
> This FAQ is almost as much "fun" as the broken Perl in RedHat 5.2 which
> broke Majordomo in the RH 5.2 timeframe.

I've suggested to Barry that he try to add a paragraph to the *top* 
of INSTALL so that people who don't read the whole file might have a chance
to understand how important it is to get cron right.



From Dan.Mick at west.sun.com  Fri Oct 13 22:53:59 2000
From: Dan.Mick at west.sun.com (Dan Mick)
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 13:53:59 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] confirms not being processed
References: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0010131156120.31511-100000@astronomica.as.arizona.edu>
Message-ID: <39E77667.4E0A3436@west.sun.com>


Guy McArthur wrote:
> 
> Hello I have 2.0b6 set up on redhat 6.2 linux. Almost everything seems to
> be fine, check perms is happy, but subscription confirmation are not being
> processed. The crontab is in place for user mailman, etc. It's coexisting
> with a majordomo setup, so I have a symlink called mmwrapper from
> /usr/adm/sm.bin to mailman's wrapper. I can create a list, I can post to
> the list (mail going to the admin), but I cannot subscribe. The subscribe
> file is appended to, but apparently never processed.

The only subscribe file I know about is logs/subscribe, which is just a log;
it's not processed per se.  Are you saying you see entries in there saying
"....pending"?  Is there a ~mailman/data/pending_subscriptions.db, and if
so, does bin/dumpdb show the things you expect in that file (the subscriptions
you think are pending)?  I assume the email confirmation does get sent back to the
address that's attempting to subscribe;  how are you replying to 
the confirmation?  Does the confirmation reply show up anywhere (in the
admin pages or anything)?  Is the confirmation reply going to <list>-request?



From guym at guymcarthur.com  Fri Oct 13 23:25:13 2000
From: guym at guymcarthur.com (Guy McArthur)
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 14:25:13 -0700 (MST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] confirms not being processed
In-Reply-To: <39E77667.4E0A3436@west.sun.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0010131416190.1705-100000@astronomica.as.arizona.edu>

Hi Dan.

> The only subscribe file I know about is logs/subscribe, which is just a log;
> it's not processed per se.  Are you saying you see entries in there saying
> "....pending"?  Is there a ~mailman/data/pending_subscriptions.db, and if
> so, does bin/dumpdb show the things you expect in that file (the subscriptions
> you think are pending)?  I assume the email confirmation does get sent back to the
> address that's attempting to subscribe;  how are you replying to 
> the confirmation?  Does the confirmation reply show up anywhere (in the
> admin pages or anything)?  Is the confirmation reply going to <list>-request?
> 
Yes on pending entries.
Yes the dumpdb shows the pending subs.
I've tried both ways of replying to the confirmation message (body or
subject) to no avail. Admin gets the confirmation request replies, and
that's the last, subscriber never gets a 'you have been subscribed'
message.
Yes, the confirmation reply is going to <list>-request.
There are no pending admin requests or any indications on the web page.
The only thing amiss (I just noticed) is that the /pipermail/ alias
hasn't been created in apache.
-- 
   --   --    -- --     Guy "Smiley" McArthur  icq # 17470307
   __   __   __   __       
   __   __   __ - __    (520)-326-4555 home    guym at arizona.edu       
    == ==    ==   ==    (520)-615-9345 work    smiley at seds.org 




From johnny at cathat.net  Fri Oct 13 23:29:23 2000
From: johnny at cathat.net (Johnny Fuerst)
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 16:29:23 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] e-mail address list files...
Message-ID: <20001013162923.A10153@cathat.net>

Does anyone know where the list of e-mail addresses to a mailing list are
stored? -What file is it?

Any responce would be great!

Sincerely,
Johnny

-- 
On Behalf Of:
Johnny Fuerst, Governor ................ governor at cathat.net
Opinions stated in this message are mine and mine alone, and
do not necessarily represent those of my ISP/employer!
.period.
------------------------------------------------------------
          'I Desire Compassion, and not a Sacrifice.'
                       'La Vida E Bella'

____________________________
Random Quote:
"I'd love to go out with you, but the man on television told me to stay tuned."
johnny at cathat.net



From jer at jorsm.com  Sat Oct 14 02:10:03 2000
From: jer at jorsm.com (Jeremy Shaffner)
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 19:10:03 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Dead End List
Message-ID: <20001013191003.D15859@jorsm.com>

Howdy.

I've just upgraded from a CVS copy of 1.2(experimental) to 2.0b6 (Installed
as a FreeBSD Port, now that there is one.)

I copied /home/listserv (I already have a mailman user) to /usr/local/mailman,
(Where the Port installs to) and did the install.  It detected a previous
version and proceeded to install and perform necessary upgrade changes.

After realizing I needed to fix my crontab (including the new paths),
everything works *except* any list created after the upgrade.

Posts sit in qfiles/ and logs/error shows:

Oct 13 19:05:01 2000 (19521) Archive file access failure:
        /usr/local/mailman/archives/private/jorsm-test.mbox/jorsm-test.mbox (0, 'Error')
Oct 13 19:05:01 2000 (19521) Delivery exception: (0, 'Error')
Oct 13 19:05:01 2000 (19521) Traceback (innermost last):
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/HandlerAPI.py", line 82, in do_pipeline
    func(mlist, msg, msgdata)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/ToArchive.py", line 47, in process
    mlist.ArchiveMail(msg, msgdata)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/Archiver.py", line 189, in ArchiveMail
    self.__archive_to_mbox(msg)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/Archiver.py", line 160, in __archive_to_mbox
    mbox.AppendMessage(post)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Mailbox.py", line 41, in AppendMessage
    self.fp.seek(-1, 2)
IOError: (0, 'Error')

I repeat..._all other lists are working normally_.

Any suggestions?

-- 

---
Jeremy Shaffner
System & Network Administrator
JORSM Internet
jer at jorsm.com
http://www.jorsm.com/~jer/pgp.key



From chuqui at plaidworks.com  Sat Oct 14 04:13:05 2000
From: chuqui at plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach)
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 19:13:05 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Dead End List
In-Reply-To: <20001013191003.D15859@jorsm.com>
References: <20001013191003.D15859@jorsm.com>
Message-ID: <p04330104b60d71732a2c@[209.239.169.197]>

At 7:10 PM -0500 10/13/00, Jeremy Shaffner wrote:
>     mbox.AppendMessage(post)
>   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Mailbox.py", line 41, in AppendMessage
>     self.fp.seek(-1, 2)
>IOError: (0, 'Error')
>
>I repeat..._all other lists are working normally_.

known bug in 2.0b6, fixed in the latest CVS. Basically, a 0 length 
archive file causes a failure because of an error chec that turned 
out to be platform dependent.

-- 
Chuq Von Rospach - Plaidworks Consulting (mailto:chuqui at plaidworks.com)
Apple Mail List Gnome (mailto:chuq at apple.com)

Be just, and fear not.



From boris at openair.com  Sat Oct 14 14:50:16 2000
From: boris at openair.com (Boris Boruchovich)
Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 08:50:16 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Q?: recipient's email address in msg footer
Message-ID: <NBBBKLCLLKJDKHFDFHCFOEADHOAA.boris@openair.com>

Hi,

Is there a way to add list recipient's email address to the msg_footer?
Specifically, I would like my footer to contain a URL with an email
parameter.

Please help.  Thanks.

-Boris




From alex at phred.org  Sat Oct 14 17:10:43 2000
From: alex at phred.org (alex wetmore)
Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 08:10:43 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Q?: recipient's email address in msg footer
In-Reply-To: <NBBBKLCLLKJDKHFDFHCFOEADHOAA.boris@openair.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.21.0010140809490.13229-100000@phred.org>

On Sat, 14 Oct 2000, Boris Boruchovich wrote:
> Is there a way to add list recipient's email address to the msg_footer?
> Specifically, I would like my footer to contain a URL with an email
> parameter.

Not in the current versions of mailman.  This would require generating
a different message for each recipient, where the current system sends
the same message to every recipient (well, one of two kinds of messages...
digested or non-digested)

alex




From marauder at morepower.com  Sun Oct 15 22:54:42 2000
From: marauder at morepower.com (Mike Cisar)
Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 14:54:42 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Subscribing users *with* password...
In-Reply-To: <20001003152407.13F2C1D029@dinsdale.python.org>
Message-ID: <NCBBKCPHOPMPCHPCNLMKMEJDDMAA.marauder@morepower.com>

I'm sure this has probably already been asked about 1000 times, but be
darned if I can find it :-)

Is there any way of subscribing a list of users to a new mailing list
specifying the password the user will use.  I'm merging about 100 users from
another server into an existing list on mine.  I have record of the
passwords that these users are currently using, and would rather that they
continue to use those passwords, rather than assigning them new ones because
of this transition.

Thanks,
>>>>> Mike <<<<<




From boris at openair.com  Mon Oct 16 13:17:54 2000
From: boris at openair.com (Boris Boruchovich)
Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 07:17:54 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Q?: recipient's email address in msg footer
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.21.0010140809490.13229-100000@phred.org>
Message-ID: <NBBBKLCLLKJDKHFDFHCFMECEHOAA.boris@openair.com>

Thanks Alex,

Is this something that is planned for future versions?  To make the
modification to my local copy, where should I start looking?  Couldn't I
just append some text just before the mail is sent?


Boris


-----Original Message-----
From: alex wetmore [mailto:alex at phred.org]
Sent: Saturday, October 14, 2000 11:11 AM
To: Boris Boruchovich
Cc: mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Q?: recipient's email address in msg footer


On Sat, 14 Oct 2000, Boris Boruchovich wrote:
> Is there a way to add list recipient's email address to the msg_footer?
> Specifically, I would like my footer to contain a URL with an email
> parameter.

Not in the current versions of mailman.  This would require generating
a different message for each recipient, where the current system sends
the same message to every recipient (well, one of two kinds of messages...
digested or non-digested)

alex




From Nigel.Metheringham at VData.co.uk  Mon Oct 16 13:43:34 2000
From: Nigel.Metheringham at VData.co.uk (Nigel Metheringham)
Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 12:43:34 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Q?: recipient's email address in msg 
 footer
In-Reply-To: Message from "Boris Boruchovich" <boris@openair.com> 
   of "Mon, 16 Oct 2000 07:17:54 EDT." <NBBBKLCLLKJDKHFDFHCFMECEHOAA.boris@openair.com> 
Message-ID: <E13l8g2-0000OB-00@rioja.localnet>

boris at openair.com said:
> Is this something that is planned for future versions?  To make the
> modification to my local copy, where should I start looking?  Couldn't
> I just append some text just before the mail is sent?

Mailman sends out one copy of the message to a (large) number of 
recipients.

To do what you want you need to make each message be sent to a single 
recipient.  This means for my 1000 member list, Mailman would inject 
1000 entries into the mail queue, rather than the few it does now 
(Mailman does split the outgoing set into chunks of subscribers, but 
its of the order of a hundred or more addresses per mail transaction 
rather than one).

Generating a mail transaction per recipient will have *serious* effects 
on the efficiency of the MTA subsystem (although some will be happier 
than others - qmail might like it), and certainly result in you 
temporarily using (list members) * (message size) spool space which 
would kill some systems.  In some cases it would also increase your 
outgoing delivery bandwidth requirements.

To implement this within Mailman would require a few changes to be made 
- maybe you could get away with adding a new mail injector, but I think 
that moving the footer generation would also be needed, requiring a 
fair bit of work.

You *could* potentially do this in the MTA although I consider it 
*very* bad policy to change mail bodies within the MTA - adding a per 
recipient header would be possible, at a cost of outgoing delivery 
aggregation being destroyed.

	Nigel.
-- 
[ - Opinions expressed are personal and may not be shared by VData - ]
[ Nigel Metheringham                  Nigel.Metheringham at VData.co.uk ]
[ Phone: +44 1423 850000                         Fax +44 1423 858866 ]





From boris at openair.com  Mon Oct 16 14:13:31 2000
From: boris at openair.com (Boris Boruchovich)
Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 08:13:31 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Q?: recipient's email address in msg footer
In-Reply-To: <E13l8g2-0000OB-00@rioja.localnet>
Message-ID: <NBBBKLCLLKJDKHFDFHCFCECHHOAA.boris@openair.com>

Makes sense to me.  Thank you.

Boris

-----Original Message-----
From: Nigel.Metheringham at vdata.co.uk
[mailto:Nigel.Metheringham at vdata.co.uk]
Sent: Monday, October 16, 2000 7:44 AM
To: boris at openair.com
Cc: alex wetmore; mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Q?: recipient's email address in msg footer



boris at openair.com said:
> Is this something that is planned for future versions?  To make the
> modification to my local copy, where should I start looking?  Couldn't
> I just append some text just before the mail is sent?

Mailman sends out one copy of the message to a (large) number of 
recipients.

To do what you want you need to make each message be sent to a single 
recipient.  This means for my 1000 member list, Mailman would inject 
1000 entries into the mail queue, rather than the few it does now 
(Mailman does split the outgoing set into chunks of subscribers, but 
its of the order of a hundred or more addresses per mail transaction 
rather than one).

Generating a mail transaction per recipient will have *serious* effects 
on the efficiency of the MTA subsystem (although some will be happier 
than others - qmail might like it), and certainly result in you 
temporarily using (list members) * (message size) spool space which 
would kill some systems.  In some cases it would also increase your 
outgoing delivery bandwidth requirements.

To implement this within Mailman would require a few changes to be made 
- maybe you could get away with adding a new mail injector, but I think 
that moving the footer generation would also be needed, requiring a 
fair bit of work.

You *could* potentially do this in the MTA although I consider it 
*very* bad policy to change mail bodies within the MTA - adding a per 
recipient header would be possible, at a cost of outgoing delivery 
aggregation being destroyed.

	Nigel.
-- 
[ - Opinions expressed are personal and may not be shared by VData - ]
[ Nigel Metheringham                  Nigel.Metheringham at VData.co.uk ]
[ Phone: +44 1423 850000                         Fax +44 1423 858866 ]




From scottrus at raleigh.ibm.com  Mon Oct 16 14:31:05 2000
From: scottrus at raleigh.ibm.com (Scott Russell)
Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 08:31:05 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Subscribing users *with* password...
In-Reply-To: <NCBBKCPHOPMPCHPCNLMKMEJDDMAA.marauder@morepower.com>; from marauder@morepower.com on Sun, Oct 15, 2000 at 02:54:42PM -0600
References: <20001003152407.13F2C1D029@dinsdale.python.org> <NCBBKCPHOPMPCHPCNLMKMEJDDMAA.marauder@morepower.com>
Message-ID: <20001016083105.A32441@raleigh.ibm.com>

Mike - IIRC you can send an email to request-listname at listhost.com with the line
subscribe address="user at host.com" password="userpasswd" and they'll be subscribed.

Send a message with the word 'help' in the body to request-listname at listhost.com and
you'll get back some basic email instructions for the list. That's where I saw the
syntax above.

-- Scott

On Sun, Oct 15, 2000 at 02:54:42PM -0600, Mike Cisar wrote:
> I'm sure this has probably already been asked about 1000 times, but be
> darned if I can find it :-)
> 
> Is there any way of subscribing a list of users to a new mailing list
> specifying the password the user will use.  I'm merging about 100 users from
> another server into an existing list on mine.  I have record of the
> passwords that these users are currently using, and would rather that they
> continue to use those passwords, rather than assigning them new ones because
> of this transition.
> 
> Thanks,
> >>>>> Mike <<<<<
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users maillist  -  Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users

-- 
Regards,
 Scott Russell (scottrus at raleigh.ibm.com)
 Linux Technology Center, System Admin, RHCE.
 T/L 441-9289 / External 919-543-9289
 http://bzimage.raleigh.ibm.com/webcam




From ckolar at admin.aurora.edu  Mon Oct 16 16:10:38 2000
From: ckolar at admin.aurora.edu (Christopher Kolar)
Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 09:10:38 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] integrating Mailman and slash?
Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20001016090719.039b2868@admin.aurora.edu>

I recently received a questions from a person who is running a 
slash-based  site and who is interested in integrating Mailman into their 
site.  I am somewhat interested in the answer myself and they are not a 
list subscriber, so I am sending the question along.  Thanks in 
advance.  --chris

>I run a slash engine and want to intergrate the layout of my slash site
>with the mailman. So in slash I can use the <!-- include virtual
>.. directive to specify an include file. The files are of the type
>shtml. My question is if there is any way to make those include files
>work with mailman....
>
>well I would like to use mailman in first instance for people that wanna 
>subscribe to a mailing list... building up a sort of community...
>
>So I just want the archives and subscribing procedure in the same layout 
>as my site....





From chuqui at plaidworks.com  Mon Oct 16 16:23:22 2000
From: chuqui at plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach)
Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 07:23:22 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] integrating Mailman and slash?
In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20001016090719.039b2868@admin.aurora.edu>
References: <5.0.0.25.2.20001016090719.039b2868@admin.aurora.edu>
Message-ID: <p04330120b610be3ace90@[209.239.169.197]>

At 9:10 AM -0500 10/16/00, Christopher Kolar wrote:
>I recently received a questions from a person who is running a 
>slash-based  site and who is interested in integrating Mailman into 
>their site.



>>I run a slash engine and want to intergrate the layout of my slash site
>>with the mailman. So in slash I can use the <!-- include virtual
>>.. directive to specify an include file. The files are of the type
>>shtml. My question is if there is any way to make those include files
>>work with mailman....


The answer is ... no, not officially, and it sort  of depends.

Couple of issues here.. First, Mailman 2.0 doesn't support adding a 
UI to it. So officially, you can't wrap it with a look and feel. 
There is, however, a patch you can add to Mailman to do this, which 
adds a global header and footer to all Mailman generated pages. Look 
on Sourceforge in the "deferred" patches section. It works fine (my 
sites I'm almost-bloody-done-punch-list-is-four-bloody-items working 
on use it. I'd show you, but they're not bloody done).

Second issue is that SSI (the .shtml stuff) doesn't support the 
output of CGIs, and so you can't wrap CGI output with SSI commands. 
I'm pretty sure, however, there are tweaks or modules to resolve 
that, or you can do what I did, which is just embed the header and 
footer in the Mailman mm_cgi.py. that means if you update your 
header/footer you have to update mailman as well, but that shouldn't 
be a huge problem for most sites (or maybe some enterprising person 
will update that sourceforge patch to recognize a file inclusion...)

So officially, Mailman doesn't support this. But it can be done, 
unless your header/footer are very dynamic. And even then, with a 
little work, you could even make that work. but it's all unsupported 
patches that hopefully will be part of things post-2.0.

-- 
Chuq Von Rospach - Plaidworks Consulting (mailto:chuqui at plaidworks.com)
Apple Mail List Gnome (mailto:chuq at apple.com)

Be just, and fear not.



From chuqui at plaidworks.com  Mon Oct 16 16:25:31 2000
From: chuqui at plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach)
Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 07:25:31 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Q?: recipient's email address in msg
 footer
In-Reply-To: <NBBBKLCLLKJDKHFDFHCFMECEHOAA.boris@openair.com>
References: <NBBBKLCLLKJDKHFDFHCFMECEHOAA.boris@openair.com>
Message-ID: <p04330121b610bfe6332b@[209.239.169.197]>

>Is this something that is planned for future versions?  To make the
>modification to my local copy, where should I start looking?  Couldn't I
>just append some text just before the mail is sent?

VERP support is wanted by a number of us. What's planned for future 
releases isn't settled yet, but you can bet it'll be on the list 
somewhere.

If you check the archives of mailman-developers, some folks have 
talked about ways to tweak mailman for this. To do it right is a lot 
of work. You can sort of fudge it, but it has performance issues 
doing so.

\
-- 
Chuq Von Rospach - Plaidworks Consulting (mailto:chuqui at plaidworks.com)
Apple Mail List Gnome (mailto:chuq at apple.com)

Be just, and fear not.



From rolagher at linuxfera.zac.itesm.mx  Mon Oct 16 16:40:13 2000
From: rolagher at linuxfera.zac.itesm.mx (=?X-UNKNOWN?Q?Rub=E9n_Olague_Hern=E1ndez?=)
Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 09:40:13 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Wrapper and pipermail
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0010160921330.3190-100000@linuxfera.zac.itesm.mx>

Hi... 

	I installed mailman with no problems, it was so cool (I thought at
the beginning). I can access the list via web and admin it.
The problem occurs when I send a mail to the list. I got a returned mail
with the following errors:

-*-*-*-
   ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----
"|/usr/local/mailman/mail/wrapper post test"
    (reason: 2)
    (expanded from: <test at mymachine.com>)

   ----- Transcript of session follows -----
Failure to exec script. WANTED gid 6, GOT gid 1.  (Reconfigure to take 1?)
554 5.3.0 "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/wrapper post test"... unknown mailer
error 2
-*-*-*-

I thought it was a problem of permissions but:

# ls -l /usr/local/mailman/mail/wrapper
-rwxr-sr-x   1 root     mailman    18825 11 Tet 16:55	wrapper



And... another problem, there's one step in the installation about
pipermail. I added the following lines to my httpd.conf, but when I try to
list the archives I got: 
"Forbidden. You don't have permission to access /pipermail/test/ on this
server. Apache/1.3.12 Server at mymachine.com Port 80"

What am I missing?

-*-*-*-
    Alias /pipermail/ "/usr/local/mailman/archives/public/"

    <Directory "/usr/local/mailman/archives/public">
        Options Indexes MultiViews
        AllowOverride None
        Order allow,deny
        Allow from all
    </Directory>
-*-*-*

I'm using AIX 4.3, sendmail 8.11 and apache 1.3.12.
Thanks in advance.



--
"Blessed is him who, having nothing to say, abstains from giving us wordy
evidence of the fact."

|--Ruben Alejandro Olague Hernandez-------------------------------------|
|                                     | ISI   ITESM Campus Zacatecas    |
|  Joyeros #7                         |                                 |
|  Tres Cruces                        |                                 |
|  C.P. 98064             |||         | tel: (044) 49268609             |
|  Zacatecas, Zac.       `( )'        | email: rolagher at usa.net         |
|  Mexico.                /|\         |  al361152 at academ01.zac.itesm.mx |
|                         / \         | ICQ: 15156589                   |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------------|
                                  presidente_corporativo at mailbanamex.com





From Nigel.Metheringham at VData.co.uk  Mon Oct 16 17:37:33 2000
From: Nigel.Metheringham at VData.co.uk (Nigel Metheringham)
Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 16:37:33 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Q?: recipient's email address in msg 
 footer
In-Reply-To: Message from Chuq Von Rospach <chuqui@plaidworks.com> 
   of "Mon, 16 Oct 2000 07:25:31 PDT." <p04330121b610bfe6332b@[209.239.169.197]> 
Message-ID: <E13lCKT-00011i-00@rioja.localnet>

chuqui at plaidworks.com said:
> VERP support is wanted by a number of us. What's planned for future
> releases isn't settled yet, but you can bet it'll be on the list
> somewhere. 

The original request almost, but not completely falls out if you have 
VERP.  If we actually need embedded body content that changes per 
recipient then the VERPing may need to be done higher up the mail 
dispatch pipeline than will be the case if you just want to do VERP 
with identical bodies.

	Nigel.
-- 
[ - Opinions expressed are personal and may not be shared by VData - ]
[ Nigel Metheringham                  Nigel.Metheringham at VData.co.uk ]
[ Phone: +44 1423 850000                         Fax +44 1423 858866 ]





From marouni at earlham.edu  Mon Oct 16 18:08:25 2000
From: marouni at earlham.edu (Nick Marouf)
Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 11:08:25 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Value too large for defined data type
Message-ID: <39EB27F9.96BD9C33@earlham.edu>

Hi all,
	After upgrading to beta6, I've noticed I keep getting these errors in
the error log for different mailboxes. What can I do to fix this?

Nick




Oct 16 10:59:01 2000 (10695) Archive file access failure:
       
/home/software/mailman/archives/private/awpe480-2.mbox/awpe480-2.mbox
[Errno 75] Value too large for defined data type
Oct 16 10:59:01 2000 (10695) Delivery exception: [Errno 75] Value too
large for defined data type
Oct 16 10:59:01 2000 (10695) Traceback (innermost last):
  File "/home/software/mailman//Mailman/Handlers/HandlerAPI.py", line
82, in do_pipeline
    func(mlist, msg, msgdata)
  File "/home/software/mailman//Mailman/Handlers/ToArchive.py", line 47,
in process
    mlist.ArchiveMail(msg, msgdata)
  File "/home/software/mailman//Mailman/Archiver/Archiver.py", line 189,
in ArchiveMail
    self.__archive_to_mbox(msg)
  File "/home/software/mailman//Mailman/Archiver/Archiver.py", line 160,
in __archive_to_mbox
    mbox.AppendMessage(post)
  File "/home/software/mailman//Mailman/Mailbox.py", line 41, in
AppendMessage
    self.fp.seek(-1, 2)
IOError: [Errno 75] Value too large for defined data type
                                                                          

-- 
Nicholas Marouf || Earlham College || Assistant System Administrator.
http://www.ramallaonline.com



From chuqui at plaidworks.com  Mon Oct 16 18:30:22 2000
From: chuqui at plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach)
Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 09:30:22 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Value too large for defined data type
In-Reply-To: <39EB27F9.96BD9C33@earlham.edu>
References: <39EB27F9.96BD9C33@earlham.edu>
Message-ID: <p04330100b610dd856e6b@[209.239.169.197]>

At 11:08 AM -0500 10/16/00, Nick Marouf wrote:
>Hi all,
>	After upgrading to beta6, I've noticed I keep getting these errors in
>the error log for different mailboxes. What can I do to fix this?

Known bug, fixed in the current CVS version.

-- 
Chuq Von Rospach - Plaidworks Consulting (mailto:chuqui at plaidworks.com)
Apple Mail List Gnome (mailto:chuq at apple.com)

Be just, and fear not.



From William.P.McGonigle at artoo.hitchcock.org  Mon Oct 16 21:42:39 2000
From: William.P.McGonigle at artoo.hitchcock.org (William P. McGonigle)
Date: 16 Oct 2000 15:42:39 EDT
Subject: [Mailman-Users] scheduling digests?
Message-ID: <155392@anoat.hitchcock.org.artoo.hitchcock.org>

A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: text/enriched
Size: 313 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20001016/62fd02be/attachment.bin 

From sacha at zacha.org  Tue Oct 17 05:36:19 2000
From: sacha at zacha.org (Sacha)
Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 05:36:19 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archiving and pipermail...
Message-ID: <251956469.20001017053619@zacha.org>

Hi,


On one of my mailing lists I turned on the Archiving option. Since then,
it was not possible to post any messages to that list. The messages did
arrive later on, when I had turned the archiving option off. In the
Mailman error log I found errors like these:


Oct 17 05:10:02 2000 (38094) Archive file access failure:
        /usr/local/mailman/archives/private/relax.mbox/relax.mbox (0, 'Error')
Oct 17 05:10:02 2000 (38094) Delivery exception: (0, 'Error')
Oct 17 05:10:02 2000 (38094) Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/HandlerAPI.py", line 82, in do_pipe$
    func(mlist, msg, msgdata)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/ToArchive.py", line 47, in process
    mlist.ArchiveMail(msg, msgdata)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/Archiver.py", line 189, in ArchiveM$
    self.__archive_to_mbox(msg)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/Archiver.py", line 160, in __archiv$
    mbox.AppendMessage(post)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Mailbox.py", line 41, in AppendMessage
    self.fp.seek(-1, 2)
IOError: (0, 'Error')


The permissions in the file /usr/local/mailman/archives/private/ are like
this, I thought that should be okay:


drwxrws--x  3 root     mailman  512 Oct 17 05:00 .
drwxrwsr-x  4 root     mailman  512 Oct 17 02:03 ..
drwxrwxr-x  2 mailman  mailman  512 Oct 17 05:05 relax.mbox


Also, when I request to locate pipermail, I get this response:


sacha at unity (~) # locate pipermail
/pub/tmp/mailman-2.0beta6/Mailman/Archiver/pipermail.py


And that's all... shouldn't there be more?

I hope someone can enlighten me...
Thanks anyhow!

Sacha

-- 

>> Tripwire                                               by zacha <<
__________________ Things that make you go *hm?* ____________________





From chuqui at plaidworks.com  Tue Oct 17 05:41:50 2000
From: chuqui at plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach)
Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 20:41:50 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archiving and pipermail...
In-Reply-To: <251956469.20001017053619@zacha.org>
References: <251956469.20001017053619@zacha.org>
Message-ID: <p04330105b6117ae83779@[209.239.169.197]>

At 5:36 AM +0200 10/17/00, Sacha wrote:
>   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Mailbox.py", line 41, in AppendMessage
>     self.fp.seek(-1, 2)
>IOError: (0, 'Error')

Known bug in 2.0b6, fixed in the current CVS release.

-- 
Chuq Von Rospach - Plaidworks Consulting (mailto:chuqui at plaidworks.com)
Apple Mail List Gnome (mailto:chuq at apple.com)

Be just, and fear not.



From bdbeers at bigfoot.com  Tue Oct 17 05:42:11 2000
From: bdbeers at bigfoot.com (Brian D. Beers)
Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 20:42:11 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Maiman interface slow.
In-Reply-To: <251956469.20001017053619@zacha.org>
Message-ID: <NDBBJLNKOLJHKLLFCNKCGEOMKCAA.bdbeers@bigfoot.com>

We just ported in about 7000 email addresses, the web interface has slowed
to the point that we cannot administer the server any longer.  Is Mailman
incapable of this size list?




From fil at bok.net  Tue Oct 17 11:11:14 2000
From: fil at bok.net (Fil)
Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 11:11:14 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] a bug !
Message-ID: <20001017111114.H14883@orwell.bok.net>

I hit a bug when subscribing in mailman 2.0beta6

Any idea?

Oct 17 11:07:23 2000 admin(429): @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
admin(429): [----- Mailman Version: 2.0beta6 -----]
admin(429): [----- Traceback ------]
admin(429): Traceback (innermost last):
admin(429):   File "/var/lib/mailman/scripts/driver", line 96, in run_main
admin(429):     main()
admin(429):   File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/subscribe.py", line 44, in
main
admin(429):     if len(parts) < 1:
admin(429): TypeError: len() of unsized object
admin(429): [----- Python Information -----]
admin(429): sys.version    = 1.5.2 (#0, Sep 13 1999, 09:12:57)  [GCC 2.95.1
19990816 (release)]
admin(429): sys.executable = /usr/bin/python
admin(429): sys.prefix     = /usr
admin(429): sys.exec_prefix= /usr
admin(429): sys.path       = /usr
admin(429): sys.platform   = linux2
admin(429): [----- Environment Variables -----]
admin(429):     SERVER_ADDR: 194.98.93.142
admin(429):     QUERY_STRING: 
admin(429):     CONTENT_TYPE: application/x-www-form-urlencoded
admin(429):     HTTP_ACCEPT: */*
admin(429):     GATEWAY_INTERFACE: CGI/1.1
admin(429):     UNIQUE_ID: OewWx8JiXY4AAH7dkw8
admin(429):     HTTP_ACCEPT_LANGUAGE: fr, en;q=0.7, ru;q=0.3
admin(429):     SERVER_PROTOCOL: HTTP/1.1
admin(429):     REMOTE_ADDR: 194.3.45.252
admin(429):     SERVER_PORT: 80
admin(429):     HTTP_CONNECTION: Keep-Alive
admin(429):     HTTP_USER_AGENT: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.0; Mac_PowerPC)
admin(429):     CONTENT_LENGTH: 40
admin(429):     REQUEST_URI: /mailman/subscribe/info-diplo
admin(429):     HTTP_UA_CPU: PPC
admin(429):     HTTP_EXTENSION: Security/Remote-Passphrase
admin(429):     SCRIPT_FILENAME: /www/cgi-bin/mailman/subscribe
admin(429):     PATH_INFO: /info-diplo
admin(429):     REQUEST_METHOD: POST
admin(429):     SERVER_SIGNATURE: 
admin(429):     SCRIPT_NAME: /mailman/subscribe
admin(429):     SERVER_SOFTWARE: Apache/1.3.9 (Unix) Debian/GNU PHP/3.0.16
admin(429):     PYTHONPATH: /var/lib/mailman
admin(429):     REMOTE_PORT: 17027
admin(429):     HTTP_UA_OS: MacOS



From fil at bok.net  Tue Oct 17 11:45:23 2000
From: fil at bok.net (Fil)
Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 11:45:23 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] a bug !
In-Reply-To: <20001017111114.H14883@orwell.bok.net>; from fil@bok.net on Tue, Oct 17, 2000 at 11:11:14AM +0200
References: <20001017111114.H14883@orwell.bok.net>
Message-ID: <20001017114523.C15318@orwell.bok.net>

I'm sorry. It was my fault - a wrong file in the wrong place.



* Fil (fil at bok.net) ?crivait :
> 
> I hit a bug when subscribing in mailman 2.0beta6
> 
> Any idea?
> 
> Oct 17 11:07:23 2000 admin(429): @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
> admin(429): [----- Mailman Version: 2.0beta6 -----]
> admin(429): [----- Traceback ------]
> admin(429): Traceback (innermost last):
> admin(429):   File "/var/lib/mailman/scripts/driver", line 96, in run_main
> admin(429):     main()
> admin(429):   File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/subscribe.py", line 44, in



From ralph at inputplus.demon.co.uk  Tue Oct 17 12:21:54 2000
From: ralph at inputplus.demon.co.uk (Ralph Corderoy)
Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 11:21:54 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Maiman interface slow. 
In-Reply-To: Message from "Brian D. Beers" <bdbeers@bigfoot.com> 
   of "Mon, 16 Oct 2000 20:42:11 PDT." <NDBBJLNKOLJHKLLFCNKCGEOMKCAA.bdbeers@bigfoot.com> 
Message-ID: <200010171021.LAA03482@inputplus.demon.co.uk>

Hi,

> We just ported in about 7000 email addresses, the web interface has
> slowed to the point that we cannot administer the server any longer.
> Is Mailman incapable of this size list?

I'd like to know this too.  We were planning to move a 24,000 member
list from Majordomo to Mailman.  No, it's not spam, all subscribers
subscribed individually themselves.


Ralph.




From cgate at poboxes.com  Tue Oct 17 12:37:45 2000
From: cgate at poboxes.com (Reynald I. Ngo)
Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 18:37:45 +0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] footer not included
In-Reply-To: <200010171021.LAA03482@inputplus.demon.co.uk>
References: <Message from "Brian D. Beers" <bdbeers@bigfoot.com>
 <NDBBJLNKOLJHKLLFCNKCGEOMKCAA.bdbeers@bigfoot.com>
Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20001017183511.00a53a50@pop.e-net.ph>


Gooday guys,

         I had a fresh installed mailman on one of our servers... i added 1 
list and added a footer... now... whenever i post a message... no footer 
was included... anybody got any idea? TYI! {=)




From bdbeers at bigfoot.com  Tue Oct 17 13:50:45 2000
From: bdbeers at bigfoot.com (Brian D. Beers)
Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 04:50:45 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Maiman interface slow. 
In-Reply-To: <200010171021.LAA03482@inputplus.demon.co.uk>
Message-ID: <NDBBJLNKOLJHKLLFCNKCGECBKDAA.bdbeers@bigfoot.com>

The slowness has subsided.  It seemed to take some hours to complete the
process of the subscription.  Now the web pages are responding with the same
old speed and usability.

Is there some insight that would help me understand why it takes so long to
do bulk imports?

I have been fighting the Marketing Half-Wits over this mail thing, now I
have to explain to htem why the mail did not go out last night.  A task I am
not looking forward to.

I need ammunition. Please help.

-----Original Message-----
From: Ralph Corderoy [mailto:ralph at inputplus.demon.co.uk]
Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2000 03:22
To: bdbeers at bigfoot.com
Cc: mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Maiman interface slow.



Hi,

> We just ported in about 7000 email addresses, the web interface has
> slowed to the point that we cannot administer the server any longer.
> Is Mailman incapable of this size list?

I'd like to know this too.  We were planning to move a 24,000 member
list from Majordomo to Mailman.  No, it's not spam, all subscribers
subscribed individually themselves.


Ralph.




From Nigel.Metheringham at VData.co.uk  Tue Oct 17 14:26:45 2000
From: Nigel.Metheringham at VData.co.uk (Nigel Metheringham)
Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 13:26:45 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Maiman interface slow. 
In-Reply-To: Message from "Brian D. Beers" <bdbeers@bigfoot.com> 
   of "Tue, 17 Oct 2000 04:50:45 PDT." <NDBBJLNKOLJHKLLFCNKCGECBKDAA.bdbeers@bigfoot.com> 
Message-ID: <E13lVpN-00032k-00@rioja.localnet>

Were you sending out welcome/confirmation messages?  
Were these users added in the web interface or from the command line?

My first approach would be to look at your MTA logs and see how much 
work that was doing - an MTA at full throttle will hammer your disk, 
memory and potentially bandwidth requirements as well as sucking CPU 
(mostly for moving stuff between disk and memory rather than of 
itself).  If you floored the MTA then the web interface will feel 
pretty horrid too.

	Nigel.
-- 
[ - Opinions expressed are personal and may not be shared by VData - ]
[ Nigel Metheringham                  Nigel.Metheringham at VData.co.uk ]
[ Phone: +44 1423 850000                         Fax +44 1423 858866 ]





From satyap at satya.virtualave.net  Tue Oct 17 15:24:59 2000
From: satyap at satya.virtualave.net (Satya)
Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 18:54:59 +0530 (IST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Wrapper and pipermail
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0010160921330.3190-100000@linuxfera.zac.itesm.mx>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0010171852290.868-100000@hal9k.myip.org>

On Oct 16, 2000 at 09:40, Rub?n Olague Hern?ndez wrote:

>   ----- Transcript of session follows -----
>Failure to exec script. WANTED gid 6, GOT gid 1.  (Reconfigure to take 1?)
>554 5.3.0 "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/wrapper post test"... unknown mailer
>error 2

From INSTALL:

      --with-mail-gid=<group-or-groups>
            Specify an alternative group for running scripts via the
            mail wrapper.  <group-or-groups> can be a list of one or
            more integer group ids or symbolic group names.  The first
            value in the list that resolves to an existing group is
            used.  By default, the value is the list `other daemon'.

You probably need to recompile.

Also read the file FAQ.

-- 
Satya. <URL:http://satya.virtualave.net/>
US-bound grad students! For pre-apps, see <URL:http://quickapps.cjb.net/>
"...I'm doing a (free) operating system (just a hobby, won't be big and
professional like gnu)... " -- Linus Torvalds, 1991




From dmick at west.sun.com  Tue Oct 17 21:50:12 2000
From: dmick at west.sun.com (Dan Mick)
Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 12:50:12 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Maiman interface slow.
In-Reply-To: <NDBBJLNKOLJHKLLFCNKCGEOMKCAA.bdbeers@bigfoot.com>
References: <251956469.20001017053619@zacha.org>
Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20001017124933.00b297b0@localhost>

At 08:42 PM 10/16/00 -0700, Brian D. Beers wrote:
>We just ported in about 7000 email addresses, the web interface has slowed
>to the point that we cannot administer the server any longer.  Is Mailman
>incapable of this size list?

Version?  Things changed pretty drastically with admin.py all throughout
2.0; one bug I tracked and Harald fixed was particularly bad when one user's
options had changed.  Details please.




From dgallagher at starnetinc.com  Tue Oct 17 22:04:11 2000
From: dgallagher at starnetinc.com (Dom Gallagher)
Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 21:04:11 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Removing headers?
Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20001017205148.0297b258@maild.starnetinc.com>

We run Mailman on one of our machines as a glorified aliases database, 
mainly due to its great handling of bounces, and to allow posting from 
approved sources only.

We add and remove users automatically when we add or remove customers, i.e. 
addition/removal is automatic - modifications are done via the add-members 
and remove-members command line programs.
We do not wish people to use the web interface (we actually have it 
switched off on this particular machine).

We'd like to remove the RFC 2369 headers (List-*: headers). Ideally, we 
could remove JUST the references to URLs - the List ID is very handy :)

Is this possible?

Dom Gallagher




From chuqui at plaidworks.com  Wed Oct 18 07:34:31 2000
From: chuqui at plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach)
Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 22:34:31 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] It's alive! it's alive!
Message-ID: <p04330103b612e6c112a2@[209.239.169.197]>

it's finally finished, so I can pass around pointers to it. I've 
redone all my hockey stuff into its own site, 
<http://www.hockeyfanz.com/>. this is more than just mailing lists, 
but the lists are still a big part of it. For those that care about 
such, my baseline rules have morphed again, thanks in no small part 
to discussion I had with folks and feedback from this list (for which 
I send thanks).

On the technology side, it's based on mailman, mwforum (for web 
forums, and also for resource lists like pointers to the mailing 
lists, mhonarc for web archives, all wrapped around Linux and Apache. 
There's very little code customization here; it's nice to be able to 
find stuff 'off the shelf' that doesn't need to be heavily hacked to 
do what I want...

I just hope it's good for a couple of years and I don't have to tear 
it down and start over any time soon... and I hope the users like it, 
since that's what really matters...

chuq
-- 
Chuq Von Rospach - Plaidworks Consulting (mailto:chuqui at plaidworks.com)
Apple Mail List Gnome (mailto:chuq at apple.com)

Be just, and fear not.



From claw at kanga.nu  Wed Oct 18 08:53:14 2000
From: claw at kanga.nu (J C Lawrence)
Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 23:53:14 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Removing headers? 
In-Reply-To: Message from Dom Gallagher <dgallagher@starnetinc.com> 
   of "Tue, 17 Oct 2000 21:04:11 BST." <4.3.2.7.2.20001017205148.0297b258@maild.starnetinc.com> 
References: <4.3.2.7.2.20001017205148.0297b258@maild.starnetinc.com> 
Message-ID: <14534.971851994@kanga.nu>

On Tue, 17 Oct 2000 21:04:11 +0100 
Dom Gallagher <dgallagher at starnetinc.com> wrote:

> We'd like to remove the RFC 2369 headers (List-*:
> headers). Ideally, we could remove JUST the references to URLs -
> the List ID is very handy :)

You could do it by editing the sources of course, there's no config
option for this.  Another option would be to setup a filter for your
local MTA that strips the headers as it receives them.

-- 
J C Lawrence                                 Home: claw at kanga.nu
---------(*)                               Other: coder at kanga.nu
http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/        Keys etc: finger claw at kanga.nu
--=| A man is as sane as he is dangerous to his environment |=--



From siew_chin at yahoo.com  Wed Oct 18 11:22:20 2000
From: siew_chin at yahoo.com (Yee Siew Chin)
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 02:22:20 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] help on moving mailman to new server
Message-ID: <20001018092220.8843.qmail@web2301.mail.yahoo.com>

hi

how can i move my existing mailman 2beta6 to a new
server which is currently a mail server? is it a good
idea to move it to the mail server? help please...

regards,
yee

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf!  It's FREE.
http://im.yahoo.com/



From nbecker at fred.net  Wed Oct 18 15:17:52 2000
From: nbecker at fred.net (nbecker at fred.net)
Date: 18 Oct 2000 09:17:52 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bug in 2.0beta5
In-Reply-To: Yee Siew Chin's message of "Wed, 18 Oct 2000 02:22:20 -0700 (PDT)"
Message-ID: <x88n1g2guf3.fsf@adglinux1.hns.com>

Using the admin general GUI web I/F, I was able to set an explicity
reply-to.  But I can't get rid of it!!  Deleting the explicit reply-to
and submitting the changes doesn't clear it!



From root at iximd.com  Wed Oct 18 16:23:25 2000
From: root at iximd.com (James E. Nash)
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 10:23:25 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Error in logs/error
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.20.0010181018490.23052-100000@real.iximd.com>

Here is what I am getting, any help would be appreciated.


Oct 18 10:20:04 2000 qrunner(23068): Traceback (most recent call last):
Oct 18 10:20:04 2000 qrunner(23068):   File "/home/mailman/cron/qrunner",
line 278, in ?
Oct 18 10:20:04 2000 qrunner(23068):      kids = main(lock)
Oct 18 10:20:04 2000 qrunner(23068):   File "/home/mailman/cron/qrunner",
line 247, in main
Oct 18 10:20:04 2000 qrunner(23068):      keepqueued =
dispose_message(mlist, msg, msgdata)
Oct 18 10:20:04 2000 qrunner(23068):   File "/home/mailman/cron/qrunner",
line 121, in dispose_message
Oct 18 10:20:04 2000 qrunner(23068):      if
BouncerAPI.ScanMessages(mlist, mimemsg):
Oct 18 10:22:03 2000 qrunner(23124):   File
"/home/mailman/Mailman/Bouncers/BouncerAPI.py", line 59, in ScanMessages
Oct 18 10:22:03 2000 qrunner(23124):      addrs = func(msg)
Oct 18 10:22:03 2000 qrunner(23124):   File
"/home/mailman/Mailman/Bouncers/Netscape.py", line 62, in process
Oct 18 10:22:03 2000 qrunner(23124):      more = mfile.next()
Oct 18 10:22:03 2000 qrunner(23124):   File
"/usr/local/lib/python1.6/multifile.py", line 124, in next
Oct 18 10:22:03 2000 qrunner(23124):      while self.readline(): pass
Oct 18 10:22:03 2000 qrunner(23124):   File
"/usr/local/lib/python1.6/multifile.py", line 96, in readline
Oct 18 10:22:03 2000 qrunner(23124):      if marker ==
self.section_divider(sep):
Oct 18 10:22:03 2000 qrunner(23124):   File
"/usr/local/lib/python1.6/multifile.py", line 160, in section_divider
Oct 18 10:22:03 2000 qrunner(23124):      return "--" + str
Oct 18 10:22:03 2000 qrunner(23124): TypeError :  illegal argument type
for built-in operation 


-- 

     _  _____________________________________  _
    / )|o           James E. Nash           o|( \
   / / |          support at iximd.com          | \ \
 _( (_ |  _    Director Of Operations     _  |  ) )_
(((\ \>| / )  Innovative Exchange, Inc.  ( \ |</ /)))
(\\\\ \_/ /-------------------------------\ \_/ ////)
 \       /       Phone: 410-638-1608       \       /
  \    _/         Fax: 410-893-2693         \_    /
  /   /|_____________________________________|\   \
 /   /  "On the keyboard of life, always keep  \   \
/   /        one finger on the 'esc' key."      \   \




From mhnoyes at users.sourceforge.net  Wed Oct 18 17:27:11 2000
From: mhnoyes at users.sourceforge.net (Mike Noyes)
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 08:27:11 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Reply To All problem
Message-ID: <4.2.2.20001018075246.00a956c0@pop.mindspring.com>

I'm a new Mailmain (2.0beta5) admin for a project on SourceForge. I've read 
the FAQ, and Administration Guide. I looked at the list archive, but I 
couldn't find a search engine for it.

I have set replies to go to the list. Reply To works as expected, but Reply 
To All doesn't include the sender in the To field. This mailman-users list 
is working the way I want my list to. What configuration options do I need 
to change?

BTW, this is my first time administering a list, so if I omitted some 
necessary information let me know. Thanks.

--
Mike Noyes                    | Enhanced LRP
mhnoyes at users.sourceforge.net | @sourceforge.net




From javier at KJSL.COM  Wed Oct 18 19:39:26 2000
From: javier at KJSL.COM (Javier Henderson)
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 10:39:26 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 2.0b6 bug (or feature?)
Message-ID: <14829.57422.888551.205205@karenium.kjsl.com>

  	I've a list, canon-fd, defined with replies going to the
  list. However, if the sender's message contains a reply-to field,
  Mailman 2.0b6 will insert it instead of reply-to: listname.
  
  	For example, sending a message to the list without a
  reply-to header:
  
  
  MIME-Version: 1.0
  Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
  Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
  Message-ID: <14829.55992.526547.942721 at karenium.kjsl.com
  Reply-To: canon-fd at KJSL.COM
  
  
  	Sending a message to the list WITH a reply-to header:
  
  MIME-Version: 1.0
  Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
  Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
  Message-ID: <14829.56004.922281.381236 at karenium.kjsl.com
  reply-to: javier at cips.nokia.com
  
  	Is this intended behavior? Note the case of reply-to on the
  second message, it's exactly as I typed it (I use Emacs + VM for mail,
  you can add headers as you please).
  
  -jav



From jw at w3.ca  Wed Oct 18 20:50:29 2000
From: jw at w3.ca (Jeff Warnica)
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 15:50:29 -0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mutiple messages?
Message-ID: <IIEBLDMEINDOBBODINPNMEHGCBAA.jw@w3.ca>

2.0beta4

A low volume, but high subscriber (~2k) list I have today sent out three
copies of the same message.

The qrunner logs show only some trouble aquiring locks in the time frame
that the message was repeated. Im thinking that a old stale qrunner process
was restarted and resent the messages.

I modified mailmans crontab to run qrunner only every 5 minutes. This is
still far more frequently then it takes for this list to be sent out, but
Ill see what happens. Are there any nonobvious issues with setting this to
every 5 minures?

--
Jeff Warnica         					 noc at w3intetnet.com
Network Operations Manager 			       W3 Internet Services
Voice: (902) 425-2969 ext. 17 				Fax: (902) 425-2822




From bdbeers at digiscents.com  Wed Oct 18 23:36:24 2000
From: bdbeers at digiscents.com (Brian Beers)
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 14:36:24 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bulk Subscriptions.
Message-ID: <47578F4CE585D311A85D009027D6024151A907@DIGISCENTSNT>

I sent a message a couple of days ago trying to get information on a problem
we had doing a bulk subscription.  I will try to recount this more clearly.

I built my server and got it prepped for production, after many arguments
and headaches, I hacked a few lines in the code and came up with a suitable
solution.

Marketing wanted to send a message on Monday.  I cleared the archives and
proceeded to do a bulk subscription through the web interface, about 8,000
addresses.  After the submit button was pressed, the machine starting
chugging away at the work.  We could not reload the web page.  We were
unable to connect to the admin pages for the list at all for at least an
hour.  I finally gave up and went to bed.  In the morning the system was
working normally and the subscriptions were all there.  In short, the
message was not sent (posted) because I did not know what the state of the
server was.

We had the administrator gets email notifying him of adds deletes from the
list set to on.  We had no notifications being sent to the list members.

I would like to know if there is a logical reason that the admin pages were
unavailable for that amount of time?  What is the amount of work that
mailman has to do to subscribe members?
Is there any other admin out there that has noticed this behavior?

Thanks.






From jimr at linuxmall.com  Wed Oct 18 23:47:07 2000
From: jimr at linuxmall.com (Jim Ray)
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 15:47:07 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bulk Subscriptions.
In-Reply-To: <47578F4CE585D311A85D009027D6024151A907@DIGISCENTSNT>; from bdbeers@digiscents.com on Wed, Oct 18, 2000 at 02:36:24PM -0700
References: <47578F4CE585D311A85D009027D6024151A907@DIGISCENTSNT>
Message-ID: <20001018154707.M18560@yeti.wgs>

On Wed, Oct 18, 2000 at 02:36:24PM -0700, Brian Beers wrote:
> 
> I would like to know if there is a logical reason that the admin pages were
> unavailable for that amount of time?  What is the amount of work that
> mailman has to do to subscribe members?

You can use add_member.  It is in /path/to/mailman/bin/.  This works with a
plain text file.  If you use ./add_member in that dir you will get the help 
message.  There are switches for welcome message or not and the like and the
name of the text file.

> Is there any other admin out there that has noticed this behavior?

I noticed the same thing when I used Listar on the web interface but I haven't
tried to do a bulk subscription with Mailman.

jim ray



From Dan.Mick at West.Sun.COM  Thu Oct 19 02:02:02 2000
From: Dan.Mick at West.Sun.COM (Dan Mick)
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 17:02:02 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: Help with mailman installation
Message-ID: <200010190000.RAA16207@utopia.west.sun.com>

> I followed the instruction on INSTALL  mailman, but i still have problem
> with making it work.  When I point my browser to
> http://localhost/mailman/  I get a message "you do not have permission
> to view mailman on this server"  

That's right, you don't.  Try mailman/listinfo/ instead.





From chuqui at plaidworks.com  Thu Oct 19 02:20:41 2000
From: chuqui at plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach)
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 17:20:41 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: Help with mailman installation
In-Reply-To: <200010190000.RAA16207@utopia.west.sun.com>
References: <200010190000.RAA16207@utopia.west.sun.com>
Message-ID: <p04330101b613eeba48d0@[209.239.169.197]>

>  > http://localhost/mailman/  I get a message "you do not have permission
>  > to view mailman on this server" 
>
>That's right, you don't.  Try mailman/listinfo/ instead.

IMHO, /mailman really ought to alias to /mail/man/listinfo, for just 
this reason... There's no reason not to, and it does tend to confuse 
folks.

-- 
Chuq Von Rospach - Plaidworks Consulting (mailto:chuqui at plaidworks.com)
Apple Mail List Gnome (mailto:chuq at apple.com)

Be just, and fear not.



From cgate at poboxes.com  Thu Oct 19 09:06:06 2000
From: cgate at poboxes.com (Reynald I. Ngo)
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 15:06:06 +0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] footer not included
In-Reply-To: <NDBBJLNKOLJHKLLFCNKCMECBKDAA.bdbeers@bigfoot.com>
References: <5.0.0.25.2.20001017183511.00a53a50@pop.e-net.ph>
Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20001019150358.00a13060@pop.e-net.ph>

At 04:55 AM 10/17/00 -0700, Brian D. Beers wrote:

Brian,

         I'm using Eudora 5.  When ever i send mail to mailing lists that 
uses mailman... i see thier footer like here in mailman-users.  What do you 
think seems to be the problem? {=)

>You are sending mail in HTTP format.  If you are using outlook, change to
>plain text, exit and logoff, restart outlook.




From webmaster at neighborhood.com  Thu Oct 19 10:13:45 2000
From: webmaster at neighborhood.com (Michael T. Bishop)
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 02:13:45 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Newletter Version Only
Message-ID: <010c01c039a4$80df1fe0$0200000a@oemcomputer>

Is it possible to set Mailman to become only a 'newsletter' distrubution
system instead of a discussion type of service?  I only want to allow
'admin' the ability to send a newsletter to the subscribers and not allow
the subscribers to send to the group.

Thanks,

Michael




From G.Benn at ftel.co.uk  Thu Oct 19 11:31:28 2000
From: G.Benn at ftel.co.uk (Geoff Benn)
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 10:31:28 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] replying to archived item
Message-ID: <39EEBF70.E9B5B77A@ftel.co.uk>

Hi,

I've just subscribed to the MailMan Users list. Please can someone
please help me with a couple of simple questions ?

1. Can users look at the archive and reply to what they see? (I assume
they'd have to be subscribed)

It seems that this is not possible ? Though just copying and pasting the
displayed subject, with a pre-pended "Re: " should do it, though you
then have to specify the destination. I was hoping for a single click
'Reply' to give the correct 'To' and 'Subject'...

I just browsed to a posting and hit 'Send Page...', I didn't get a 'To',
but the subject is almost right (needs "Re: "), and I get a URL to the
posting ... could be useful..., but no text body as per a 'reply'.

I've looked at the following which are not applicable (but useful to me
in question 2) :

     Via 'Copy link location' when looking at archive via Netscape,
     and paste into this email:

           http://www.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2000-October/007689.html

     While looking at a message, hit 'thread' and it takes you back
     to the threaded list at the right place to copy the link
     location, and hence paste something here:

          http://www.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2000-October/007692.html

     Only problem with these URLs is that the subject is lost,
     hence have to copy that by highlighting it, and paste it here
     :-

          ([Mailman-Users] question about reply to.   Roger
          B.A. Klorese )

     ie. like :

           http://www.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2000-October/007914.html
          ([Mailman-Users] fixing the reply-to bug.   Rob
          Martin )

2. Can I assume that using URLs as above is not a feature of the
particular mailman-users archive, but is possible with the basic MailMan
?

3. Does MailMan handle the hyperlinks above ...

Regards,
Geoff
--
Fujitsu Telecommunications Europe Ltd
Tel:  +44 (0)121 717 6441
Fax:  +44 (0)121 717 6018
E-mail: G.Benn at ftel.co.uk

-------------- next part --------------
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From johnny at technik.sth.ac.at  Thu Oct 19 13:20:15 2000
From: johnny at technik.sth.ac.at (John)
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 13:20:15 +0200 (MEST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] "traceback (innermost last)" sent by cron, checkdbs
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0010191315170.3130-100000@galaxy.technik.sth.ac.at>

Hi,


sometimes I get cron-mails (checkdbs). I really haven't been able to figure out
as to why this happens. However, it happens on another system (which I do not
run) as well.

Both systems run mailman 2.0beta1.

The exact message is:

<quote>
Traceback (innermost last):
  File "/usr/local/mailman/cron/checkdbs", line 87, in ?
    main()
  File "/usr/local/mailman/cron/checkdbs", line 52, in main
    text = text + '\n' + pending_requests(mlist)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/cron/checkdbs", line 72, in pending_requests
    pending.append('    %s %s' % addr, time.ctime(when))
TypeError: not enough arguments for format string
</quote>


Is there any fix for this?
Or will an upgrade to the latest version of mailman fix this problem?



thanks,

John





From simon at uow.edu.au  Thu Oct 19 14:19:13 2000
From: simon at uow.edu.au (Simon Coggins)
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 22:19:13 +1000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailing list posts looping.
Message-ID: <OGEMKHAHNCCMNKJKEPCOMEGOCAAA.simon@uow.edu.au>

Hi,

I'm currently experiencing a problem with Mailman where a post to a list
will dulicate and be sent out multiple times. This doesn't happen with every
message and it isn't just with moderated lists. So far it's happend twice. I
haven't seen any reason for it to occure, and to stop it i've had to delete
the rouge .msg and .db files from the qfiles directory.

This was happening in beta5. I've now upgraded to beta6 and am waiting to
see how that goes. The operating system it's running on is FreeBSD 3.5

Does anyone have any ideas whats going on or how to fix it?

---
Simon Coggins (SAGE-AU Member)                Email: simon at uow.edu.au
Network and System Management Officer         Phone: +61-2-4221-3775
Information Technology Systems (ITS)          Mobile: 0408 115861
University of Wollongong, 2522, Australia     Fax:   +61-2-4229-1985




From boris at openair.com  Thu Oct 19 15:16:46 2000
From: boris at openair.com (Boris Boruchovich)
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 09:16:46 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Not me too
In-Reply-To: <p04330100b610dd856e6b@[209.239.169.197]>
Message-ID: <NBBBKLCLLKJDKHFDFHCFAEMIHOAA.boris@openair.com>

Hi

Is there a way to make sure that new users have the "not me too" option
enabled?

...Boris




From chuqui at plaidworks.com  Thu Oct 19 16:42:31 2000
From: chuqui at plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach)
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 07:42:31 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] "traceback (innermost last)" sent by
 cron, checkdbs
In-Reply-To: 
 <Pine.LNX.4.21.0010191315170.3130-100000@galaxy.technik.sth.ac.at>
References: 
 <Pine.LNX.4.21.0010191315170.3130-100000@galaxy.technik.sth.ac.at>
Message-ID: <p04330116b614b8a9878b@[209.239.169.197]>

At 1:20 PM +0200 10/19/00, John wrote:

>sometimes I get cron-mails (checkdbs).

what version of python?


>Both systems run mailman 2.0beta1.

2.0b6 is current. You should upgrade and see if it's still a problem. 
Many fixes have gone in, and we can't really debug a way-old beta.

-- 
Chuq Von Rospach - Plaidworks Consulting (mailto:chuqui at plaidworks.com)
Apple Mail List Gnome (mailto:chuq at apple.com)

Be just, and fear not.



From esper at sherohman.org  Thu Oct 19 17:42:58 2000
From: esper at sherohman.org (Dave Sherohman)
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 10:42:58 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Newletter Version Only
In-Reply-To: <010c01c039a4$80df1fe0$0200000a@oemcomputer>; from webmaster@neighborhood.com on Thu, Oct 19, 2000 at 02:13:45AM -0600
References: <010c01c039a4$80df1fe0$0200000a@oemcomputer>
Message-ID: <20001019104258.A19927@sherohman.org>

On Thu, Oct 19, 2000 at 02:13:45AM -0600, Michael T. Bishop wrote:
> Is it possible to set Mailman to become only a 'newsletter' distrubution
> system instead of a discussion type of service?  I only want to allow
> 'admin' the ability to send a newsletter to the subscribers and not allow
> the subscribers to send to the group.

Privacy options page, "Must posts be approved by an administrator?".  AFAICT,
you can't configure the list to immediately reject all non-admin posts, but
you can get it to hold them for manual rejection.

-- 
"Two words: Windows survives." - Craig Mundie, Microsoft senior strategist
"So does syphillis. Good thing we have penicillin." - Matthew Alton
Geek Code 3.1:  GCS d- s+: a- C++ UL++$ P+>+++ L+++>++++ E- W--(++) N+ o+
!K w---$ O M- V? PS+ PE Y+ PGP t 5++ X+ R++ tv b+ DI++++ D G e* h+ r++ y+



From stephanie at hawkbane.net  Thu Oct 19 17:54:08 2000
From: stephanie at hawkbane.net (Stephanie Martinez)
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 10:54:08 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Error with Red Hat 7.0
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0010191052590.11969-100000@castle.hawkbane.net>

I can't figure this one out.  I had everything working fine under 6.2.

I upgraded my system to 7.0 and I get the following error message when I
try to approve a pending email:

If you would like to help us identify the problem, please email a copy of
this page to the webmaster for this site with a description of what
happened. Thanks! 

Traceback:

Traceback (innermost last):
  File "/home/mailman/scripts/driver", line 96, in run_main
    main()
  File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/admindb.py", line 97, in main
    mlist.Save()
  File "/home/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 845, in Save
    self.SaveRequestsDb()
  File "/home/mailman/Mailman/ListAdmin.py", line 93, in SaveRequestsDb
    self.__closedb()
  File "/home/mailman/Mailman/ListAdmin.py", line 80, in __closedb
    fp = open(self.__filename, 'w')
IOError: [Errno 13] Permission
denied: '/home/mailman/lists/seventh-guides/request.db'





--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Python information:
Variable Value 
sys.version 1.5.2 (#1, Aug 25 2000, 09:33:37) [GCC 2.96 20000731
(experimental)]  
sys.executable /usr/bin/python  
sys.prefix /usr  
sys.exec_prefix /usr  
sys.path /usr  
sys.platform linux-i386  




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Environment variables:
Variable Value 
DOCUMENT_ROOT  /var/www/html  
SERVER_ADDR  24.27.56.244  
HTTP_ACCEPT_ENCODING  gzip, deflate  
SERVER_PORT  80  
PATH_TRANSLATED  /var/www/html/seventh-guides  
REMOTE_ADDR  143.166.99.177  
HTTP_VIA  1.0 AUSINETPROXYBU8  
HTTP_ACCEPT_LANGUAGE  en-us  
GATEWAY_INTERFACE  CGI/1.1  
SERVER_NAME  castle.hawkbane.net  
HTTP_CONNECTION  Keep-Alive  
HTTP_USER_AGENT  Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.01; Windows NT 5.0)  
HTTP_ACCEPT  image/gif, image/x-xbitmap, image/jpeg, image/pjpeg,
application/vnd.ms-powerpoint, application/vnd.ms-excel,
application/msword, */*  
REQUEST_URI  /mailman/admindb/seventh-guides  
PATH  /sbin:/usr/sbin:/bin:/usr/bin:/usr/X11R6/bin  
QUERY_STRING   
SCRIPT_FILENAME  /home/mailman/cgi-bin/admindb  
PATH_INFO  /seventh-guides  
HTTP_HOST  24.27.56.244  
REQUEST_METHOD  GET  
SERVER_SIGNATURE  Apache/1.3.12 Server at castle.hawkbane.net Port 80 
SCRIPT_NAME  /mailman/admindb  
SERVER_ADMIN  root at localhost  
SERVER_SOFTWARE  Apache/1.3.12 (Unix) (Red Hat/Linux) mod_ssl/2.6.6
OpenSSL/0.9.5a DAV/1.0.1 PHP/4.0.1pl2 mod_perl/1.24  
PYTHONPATH  /home/mailman  
HTTP_COOKIE
seventh-guides:admin=2802000000695618ef39732800000037303339343735343063313437343031396330633230323935353830393962643238386230316435  
SERVER_PROTOCOL  HTTP/1.0  
REMOTE_PORT  3201  
HTTP_REFERER  http://24.27.56.244/mailman/admin/seventh-guides/  



I get simillar errors if I try to run bin/newlist, etc. 

Anyone know of a fix for this one?

Stephanie





From ckolar at admin.aurora.edu  Thu Oct 19 19:07:57 2000
From: ckolar at admin.aurora.edu (Christopher Kolar)
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 12:07:57 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] no outbound mail, everything in qfiles?
Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20001019115948.04b9a2b0@64.193.205.85>

I just noticed that my low volume mail server does not have anything going 
outbound, either list traffic or sub confirmations.  I looked in the qfiles 
directory and there is a ton of stuff in there, which I am guessing is my 
outbound traffic..  I am running 2b6 with postfix.  Things were normal as 
of last weekend, so I am not sure what happened.  The crontab file looks ok 
to me, the mailman aliases file is owned by mailman:mailman.  Any 
suggestions.  Thanks,

--chris




From marc_news at valinux.com  Thu Oct 19 19:35:14 2000
From: marc_news at valinux.com (Marc MERLIN)
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 10:35:14 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: Using mailman with the secure-linux kernel patch
In-Reply-To: <20001005101913.M14681@marc.merlins.org>; from marc_news@valinux.com on Thu, Oct 05, 2000 at 10:19:13AM -0700
References: <20001005101913.M14681@marc.merlins.org>
Message-ID: <20001019103514.E7447@marc.merlins.org>

[mailman-developers at python.org  Cced in  case  they want  to  add my  python
script to the tree, but followup set to mailman-users at python.org]
 
On Thu, Oct 05, 2000 at 10:19:13AM -0700, Marc MERLIN wrote:
> I wanted to have mailman run on my servers that have the secure-linux kernel
> patch. I ended up  writing a small shell script that  changed permissions so
> that  scripts ran  as UID  mailman (by  making sure  that scripts  that lock
> config.db do so with UID mailman).
> I later realized that python doesn't  seem to have a suidpython wrapper like
> perl does, so I  scrapped the shell script and attempted to  put a few lines
> of python together to modify some scripts in mailman/bin so that they change
> their uid  to mailman  if root  runs them  or complain  that they  can't run
> unless their uid is mailman.

My old version forgot to do a chown mailman before chmod 4755. Duh!

The new version, which I'm not pasting here again fixes this:
https://sourceforge.net/patch/?func=detailpatch&patch_id=101812&group_id=103

If you try out this script on your system, please drop me a line by Email to
let me know if all works fine for you

Thanks,
Marc
-- 
Microsoft is to operating systems & security ....
                                      .... what McDonalds is to gourmet cooking
  
Home page: http://marc.merlins.org/   |   Finger marc_f at merlins.org for PGP key



From marouf at earlham.edu  Thu Oct 19 19:37:11 2000
From: marouf at earlham.edu (Nick Marouf)
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 12:37:11 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] getting cvs
Message-ID: <39EF3147.40FAE320@earlham.edu>

Hi all,
	I need to get the current cvs version on mailman. 
Could someone tell me where/how to download it.

There are a few bugs in beta6 that are fixed, and I would like to start
using the cvs version to fix them.

Thanks.

Nick


-- 
Nicholas Marouf || Earlham College || Assistant System Administrator. 
http://www.ramallahonline.com



From chuqui at plaidworks.com  Thu Oct 19 22:31:02 2000
From: chuqui at plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach)
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 13:31:02 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] no outbound mail, everything in qfiles?
In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20001019115948.04b9a2b0@64.193.205.85>
References: <5.0.0.25.2.20001019115948.04b9a2b0@64.193.205.85>
Message-ID: <p0433011bb6150a6bbc6b@[209.239.169.197]>

At 12:07 PM -0500 10/19/00, Christopher Kolar wrote:
>Things were normal as of last weekend, so I am not sure what 
>happened.  The crontab file looks ok to me, the mailman aliases file 
>is owned by mailman:mailman.  Any suggestions.  Thanks,

what do the files in ~mailman/logs say?

what locks are hangingg around in ~mailman/locks?

-- 
Chuq Von Rospach - Plaidworks Consulting (mailto:chuqui at plaidworks.com)
Apple Mail List Gnome (mailto:chuq at apple.com)

Be just, and fear not.



From micah at colltech.com  Fri Oct 20 01:56:49 2000
From: micah at colltech.com (Micah Anderson)
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 18:56:49 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Digests spamming subscribers errors piling - help!
Message-ID: <20001019185649.D8219@psasolar.colltech.com>

For some reason today a particular list started sending out hundreds and
hundreds of copies of its digest. It WOULDN'T stop. I had to stop sendmail,
and I still have it stopped, which is a bad thing. Investigating the digest
doesn't show anything.

In the digest log file I have a bunch:

Oct 19 13:53:09 2000 (19737) next imc-prague digest: #620, post#1
Oct 19 13:53:15 2000 (19737) imc-prague v 620 - 4 msgs, 26 recips (23 mime,
0 text, 3 disabled)
Oct 19 13:53:15 2000 (19737) next imc-prague digest: #621, post#1
Oct 19 13:55:31 2000 (19742) imc-prague v 621 - 4 msgs, 26 recips (23 mime,
0 text, 3 disabled)
Oct 19 13:55:31 2000 (19742) next imc-prague digest: #622, post#1
Oct 19 13:59:46 2000 (19742) imc-prague v 622 - 4 msgs, 26 recips (23 mime,
0 text, 3 disabled)
Oct 19 13:59:47 2000 (19742) next imc-prague digest: #623, post#1
Oct 19 15:07:25 2000 (23523) imc-nyc-process v 94 - 15 msgs, 3 recips (0
mime, 3 text, 0 disabled)

in the error log file I am getting a lot of:

Oct 19 19:41:01 2000 (7766) Delivery exception: read-only character buffer,
None
Oct 19 19:41:01 2000 (7766) Traceback (innermost last):
  File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/HandlerAPI.py", line 82, in do_pipeline
    func(mlist, msg, msgdata)
  File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/Hold.py", line 173, in process
    if mlist.require_explicit_destination and \
  File "/home/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 1213, in HasExplicitDest
    addr = string.lower(addr)
TypeError: read-only character buffer, None


In the bouce file I've got:

Oct 19 20:00:02 2000 (8219) imc-prague: newyorkparis at yahoo.com - 5 more
allowed over 431789 secs
Oct 19 20:00:02 2000 (8219) imc-prague: pavliksv at yahoo.com - 5 more allowed
over 431789 secs
Oct 19 20:01:01 2000 (8270) imc-prague: josephbmurphy at yahoo.com - digester
lucked out
Oct 19 20:01:01 2000 (8270) imc-prague: xtoyax at yahoo.com - digester lucked out
Oct 19 20:01:01 2000 (8270) imc-prague: thatchercollins at yahoo.com - digester
lucked out
Oct 19 20:01:01 2000 (8270) imc-prague: josephbmurphy at yahoo.com - digester
lucked out
Oct 19 20:01:01 2000 (8270) imc-prague: xtoyax at yahoo.com - digester lucked out
Oct 19 20:01:01 2000 (8270) imc-prague: thatchercollins at yahoo.com - digester
lucked out

My fromusenet log has stuff in it that I wish it would stop logging since I
am not gateing:
Oct 19 19:55:02 2000 (8151) end gating
Oct 19 20:00:02 2000 (8218) begin gating
Oct 19 20:00:04 2000 (8218) end gating

my smtp-failure has a lot of:
Oct 19 19:41:19 2000 (7766) -1 f2592827 at est.ct.upc.es (ignore)
Oct 19 19:41:19 2000 (7766) -1 jan.hagelberg at kolumbus.fi (ignore)
Oct 19 19:41:19 2000 (7766) -1 weathermark at hotmail.com (ignore)
Oct 19 19:41:19 2000 (7766) -1 thatchercollins at yahoo.com (ignore)
Oct 19 19:41:19 2000 (7766) -1 ndj at cyberjedi.org.uk (ignore)

and my maillog file for sendmail looks normal (it keeps sending those
digests out)...

HelP!

Micah


-- 
Micah Anderson
Collective Technologies
www.colltech.com

"To be and not to do is not to be at all"



From alex_aminoff at alum.mit.edu  Fri Oct 20 03:33:27 2000
From: alex_aminoff at alum.mit.edu (Alex Aminoff)
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 21:33:27 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] how to change MM-Archive when externally archiving lists under virtual
 domains
Message-ID: <39EFA0E7.9178722A@alum.mit.edu>

I want to use an external archiving program (in this case MHonArc). I
set the PUBLIC_EXTERNAL_ARCHIVER and PRIVATE_EXTERNAL_ARCHIVER to
appropriate strings in mm_cfg.py, but that only sets the default. I also
want to be able to change where the archive of each list lives. This
requires changing 1) the URL used to get to the archives from the list
info
page, and 2) the external archiver command line.

I presume these variables are kept in lists/<listname>/config.db. How do
you change these things on an existing list? There does not seem to be a
place in the html admin interface to do that.

 
 - Alex Aminoff
   alex_aminoff at alum.mit.edu
   http://www.basespace.net/~alex/consult/



From jeff at crossvalley.com  Fri Oct 20 05:13:46 2000
From: jeff at crossvalley.com (Jeff Maxwell)
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 23:13:46 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] configuration problem
Message-ID: <p04330109b61566e7a617@[10.10.10.2]>

Hi list members,
I am having a problem getting mailman to run on my system. I read 
through the INSTALL and FAQ in the distribution but I can't seem to 
fix these errors.

I compiled mailman with both --with-mail-gid= set 12 for mail on my 
system and --with-cgi-gid= set 98 the nobody group apache uses. I ran 
check_perms -f as root and it fixed some permission problems.
I an still getting these errors:

this is in the returned mail that I try to post.
----- Transcript of session follows -----
Failure to exec script. WANTED gid 12, GOT gid 100.  (Reconfigure to take 100?)
554 5.3.0 "|/home/mailman/mail/wrapper post test-list"... unknown 
mailer error 2

this is sent to me as the list owner.
Subject: cron: /usr/local/bin/python -S /home/mailman/cron/gate_news

Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "/home/mailman/cron/gate_news", line 222, in ?
     main()
   File "/home/mailman/cron/gate_news", line 203, in main
     process_lists(lock)
   File "/home/mailman/cron/gate_news", line 140, in process_lists
     mlist = MailList.MailList(listname, lock=0)
   File "/home/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 79, in __init__
     self.Load()
   File "/home/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 877, in Load
     dict, e = self.__load(dbfile)
   File "/home/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 854, in __load
     fp = open(dbfile)
IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied: 
'/home/mailman/lists/test-list/config.db'


Any help would be greatly appreciated!

-- 
Jeff Maxwell
jeff at crossvalley.com



From Dan.Mick at West.Sun.COM  Fri Oct 20 05:40:50 2000
From: Dan.Mick at West.Sun.COM (Dan Mick)
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 20:40:50 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] configuration problem
Message-ID: <200010200339.UAA07419@utopia.west.sun.com>

The message "WANTED gid 12, GOT gid 100" means, unbelievably enough,
that Mailman wanted gid 12 (like you configured) but it got 100
instead.  Whatever mail program is running your script is running it
as gid 100.  That's the problem you have to resolve.

The suggestion mailman had, again, stunningly enough, is to 
"Reconfigure to take 100".  Perhaps that's the right answer.

> Hi list members,
> I am having a problem getting mailman to run on my system. I read 
> through the INSTALL and FAQ in the distribution but I can't seem to 
> fix these errors.
> 
> I compiled mailman with both --with-mail-gid= set 12 for mail on my 
> system and --with-cgi-gid= set 98 the nobody group apache uses. I ran 
> check_perms -f as root and it fixed some permission problems.
> I an still getting these errors:
> 
> this is in the returned mail that I try to post.
> ----- Transcript of session follows -----
> Failure to exec script. WANTED gid 12, GOT gid 100.  (Reconfigure to take 
100?)
> 554 5.3.0 "|/home/mailman/mail/wrapper post test-list"... unknown 
> mailer error 2
> 
> this is sent to me as the list owner.
> Subject: cron: /usr/local/bin/python -S /home/mailman/cron/gate_news
> 
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>    File "/home/mailman/cron/gate_news", line 222, in ?
>      main()
>    File "/home/mailman/cron/gate_news", line 203, in main
>      process_lists(lock)
>    File "/home/mailman/cron/gate_news", line 140, in process_lists
>      mlist = MailList.MailList(listname, lock=0)
>    File "/home/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 79, in __init__
>      self.Load()
>    File "/home/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 877, in Load
>      dict, e = self.__load(dbfile)
>    File "/home/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 854, in __load
>      fp = open(dbfile)
> IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied: 
> '/home/mailman/lists/test-list/config.db'
> 
> 
> Any help would be greatly appreciated!
> 
> -- 
> Jeff Maxwell
> jeff at crossvalley.com
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users maillist  -  Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users





From chuqui at plaidworks.com  Fri Oct 20 05:43:34 2000
From: chuqui at plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach)
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 20:43:34 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] how to change MM-Archive when externally
 archiving lists under virtual  domains
In-Reply-To: <39EFA0E7.9178722A@alum.mit.edu>
References: <39EFA0E7.9178722A@alum.mit.edu>
Message-ID: <p04330105b6156fc04995@[17.216.27.202]>

At 9:33 PM -0400 10/19/00, Alex Aminoff wrote:
>I want to use an external archiving program (in this case MHonArc). I
>set the PUBLIC_EXTERNAL_ARCHIVER and PRIVATE_EXTERNAL_ARCHIVER to
>appropriate strings in mm_cfg.py, but that only sets the default.

I worked with thsoe for a while, and finally decided to create a mail 
alias for MHonarc and subscribe it to the list. I just never got it 
working the way I wanted.

-- 
Chuq Von Rospach - Plaidworks Consulting (mailto:chuqui at plaidworks.com)
Apple Mail List Gnome (mailto:chuq at apple.com)

Be just, and fear not.



From chuqui at plaidworks.com  Fri Oct 20 05:42:11 2000
From: chuqui at plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach)
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 20:42:11 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] configuration problem
In-Reply-To: <p04330109b61566e7a617@[10.10.10.2]>
References: <p04330109b61566e7a617@[10.10.10.2]>
Message-ID: <p04330104b6156ec20d72@[17.216.27.202]>

At 11:13 PM -0400 10/19/00, Jeff Maxwell wrote:
>Hi list members,
>I am having a problem getting mailman to run on my system. I read 
>through the INSTALL and FAQ in the distribution but I can't seem to 
>fix these errors.
>
>I compiled mailman with both --with-mail-gid= set 12 for mail on my 
>system and --with-cgi-gid= set 98 the nobody group apache uses.

your mailer isn't running as 12, though. It's running as 100, to 
--with-mail-gid is set incorrectly:

this shows that the GID being used to execute wrapper is 100, not 12:

>Failure to exec script. WANTED gid 12, GOT gid 100.  (Reconfigure to 
>take 100?)
>554 5.3.0 "|/home/mailman/mail/wrapper post test-list"... unknown 
>mailer error 2

-- 
Chuq Von Rospach - Plaidworks Consulting (mailto:chuqui at plaidworks.com)
Apple Mail List Gnome (mailto:chuq at apple.com)

Be just, and fear not.



From barry at wooz.org  Fri Oct 20 08:29:45 2000
From: barry at wooz.org (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 02:29:45 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: [Mailman-Developers] Mailman-Bug with faked spam headers and some suggestions new features
References: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0010110059160.828-100000@steffensdomaine.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <14831.58969.17198.42077@anthem.concentric.net>

>>>>> "SB" == Steffen Bardolatzi <steffen at asta.uni-wuppertal.de> writes:

    SB> This looks like a nasty bug ...

    SB> Oct 08 23:53:01 2000 (25258) Delivery exception: read-only
    SB> character buffer, None Oct 08 23:53:01 2000 (25258) Traceback
    SB> (innermost last): File
    SB> "/var/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/HandlerAPI.py", line 82, in
    SB> do_pipeline
    SB>     func(mlist, msg, msgdata) File
    SB> "/var/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/Hold.py", line 173, in process
    SB> if mlist.require_explicit_destination and \ File
    SB> "/var/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 1208, in
    SB> HasExplicitDest addr = string.lower(addr)
    SB> TypeError: read-only character buffer, None

This will be fixed in rc1.

-Barry



From marc_news at valinux.com  Fri Oct 20 08:41:32 2000
From: marc_news at valinux.com (Marc MERLIN)
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 23:41:32 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Q?: recipient's email address in msg footer
In-Reply-To: <E13l8g2-0000OB-00@rioja.localnet>; from Nigel.Metheringham@VData.co.uk on Mon, Oct 16, 2000 at 12:43:34PM +0100
References: <boris@openair.com> <E13l8g2-0000OB-00@rioja.localnet>
Message-ID: <20001019234132.S21683@moremagic.merlins.org>

On Mon, Oct 16, 2000 at 12:43:34PM +0100, Nigel Metheringham wrote:
> Generating a mail transaction per recipient will have *serious* effects 
> on the efficiency of the MTA subsystem (although some will be happier 
> than others - qmail might like it), and certainly result in you 
> temporarily using (list members) * (message size) spool space which 
> would kill some systems.  In some cases it would also increase your 
> outgoing delivery bandwidth requirements.
 
ezmlm+qmail have been doing that for ages.
It shouldn't be a  default, for some of us have CPUs, and  HD space to spare
(bandwidth needs are  not significantly increased, the  percentage of people
from the same site in many lists isn't  that high, so you do send a few more
mails over the net,  but I'd say it's less than twice  more for your typical
list.

I'd easily trade the above for perfect bounce processing like ezmlm does :-)
 
That said, it's more work than a quick trivial patch to mailman.

Marc
-- 
Microsoft is to operating systems & security ....
                                      .... what McDonalds is to gourmet cooking
  
Home page: http://marc.merlins.org/   |   Finger marc_f at merlins.org for PGP key



From jeff at crossvalley.com  Fri Oct 20 13:49:17 2000
From: jeff at crossvalley.com (Jeff Maxwell)
Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 07:49:17 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] qrunner problem
Message-ID: <p04330101b615dfb2159b@[10.10.10.2]>

I am having a problem with qrunner. I first get a message that the 
lists config.db is not writable. I change the permissions and then am 
able to send one message to the list, after the mail goes through the 
config.db is again unwritable.


-rwxrwsr-x   1 mailman  mailman      1706 Oct 19 22:21 admindbpreamble.html*
-rw-rw----   1 mailman  mailman      3004 Oct 20 08:12 config.db
-rwxrwsr-x   1 nobody   mailman      3004 Oct 20 00:55 config.db.last*
-rwxrwsr-x   1 mailman  mailman       189 Oct 19 22:21 handle_opts.html*
-rwxrwsr-x   1 mailman  mailman       900 Oct 19 22:21 headfoot.html*
-rwxrwsr-x   1 mailman  mailman      3136 Oct 19 22:21 listinfo.html*
-rw-rw-r--   1 mailman  mailman      6015 Oct 20 08:12 next-digest
-rw-rw-r--   1 mailman  mailman       195 Oct 20 08:12 next-digest-topics
-rwxrwsr-x   1 mailman  mailman      4106 Oct 19 22:21 options.html*
-rwxrwsr-x   1 mailman  mailman         2 Oct 20 00:35 request.db*
-rwxrwsr-x   1 mailman  mailman      1169 Oct 19 22:21 roster.html*
-rwxrwsr-x   1 mailman  mailman       198 Oct 19 22:21 subscribe.html*





Subject: cron: /usr/local/bin/python -S /home/mailman/cron/qrunner

Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "/home/mailman/cron/qrunner", line 278, in ?
     kids = main(lock)
   File "/home/mailman/cron/qrunner", line 234, in main
     mlist = open_list(listname)
   File "/home/mailman/cron/qrunner", line 174, in open_list
     mlist = MailList.MailList(listname, lock=0)
   File "/home/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 79, in __init__
     self.Load()
   File "/home/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 877, in Load
     dict, e = self.__load(dbfile)
   File "/home/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 854, in __load
     fp = open(dbfile)
IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied: 
'/home/mailman/lists/test-list/config.db'
-- 
Jeff Maxwell
jeff at crossvalley.com



From morris at unc.edu  Fri Oct 20 15:23:08 2000
From: morris at unc.edu (Joe Morris)
Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 09:23:08 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Error with Red Hat 7.0
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0010191052590.11969-100000@castle.hawkbane.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.WNT.4.21.0010200921110.364-100000@pasta.jmorris.org>

On Thu, 19 Oct 2000, Stephanie Martinez wrote:

| I can't figure this one out.  I had everything working fine under 6.2.
| 
| I upgraded my system to 7.0 and I get the following error message when I
| try to approve a pending email:
| 
| If you would like to help us identify the problem, please email a copy of
| this page to the webmaster for this site with a description of what
| happened. Thanks! 
| 
| Traceback:
| 
| Traceback (innermost last):
|   File "/home/mailman/scripts/driver", line 96, in run_main
|     main()
|   File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/admindb.py", line 97, in main
|     mlist.Save()
|   File "/home/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 845, in Save
|     self.SaveRequestsDb()
|   File "/home/mailman/Mailman/ListAdmin.py", line 93, in SaveRequestsDb
|     self.__closedb()
|   File "/home/mailman/Mailman/ListAdmin.py", line 80, in __closedb
|     fp = open(self.__filename, 'w')
| IOError: [Errno 13] Permission
| denied: '/home/mailman/lists/seventh-guides/request.db'

Appears some permissions have changed.  Verify sendmail (or whatever MTA
you are using) is still using the same uig/gid.

I have Mailman running on RH70 and it works fine.

_______________________________________________________
Joe Morris                http://www.ibiblio.org/morris
Web Systems Manager, ATN            http://help.unc.edu
UNC-Chapel Hill                      http://www.unc.edu




From jdkc at woptura.com  Fri Oct 20 16:00:19 2000
From: jdkc at woptura.com (J.D.K. Chipps)
Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 09:00:19 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Auto respond to unsubscribed posters
Message-ID: <39F04FF3.543514D7@woptura.com>

I moderate a closed list, and spend way too much time responding to
"unsubscribed posters".

Is there anyway to have an automatic reply sent to these unsubscribed
posters, instead of having to do it by hand, on each and every post?

There is an automatic reply sent to me as list moderator when this
happens.  Anyway to sent it to the poster instead?

TIA



From jw at w3.ca  Fri Oct 20 16:38:44 2000
From: jw at w3.ca (Jeff Warnica)
Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 11:38:44 -0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] New headers?
Message-ID: <IIEBLDMEINDOBBODINPNIEIHCBAA.jw@w3.ca>

Upgrading to beta6 has caused there to be some new headers included in
outgoing messages, List-Post etc..

Is there a way to suppress these?

--
Jeff Warnica         					 noc at w3intetnet.com
Network Operations Manager 			       W3 Internet Services
Voice: (902) 425-2969 ext. 17 				Fax: (902) 425-2822




From virginia at texterity.com  Fri Oct 20 16:45:07 2000
From: virginia at texterity.com (Virginia Beauregard)
Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 10:45:07 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Error with Red Hat 7.0
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0010191052590.11969-100000@castle.hawkbane.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10010201044030.27238-100000@underdog.texterity.com>

On Thu, 19 Oct 2000, Stephanie Martinez wrote:

> IOError: [Errno 13] Permission
> denied: '/home/mailman/lists/seventh-guides/request.db'

This looks like the cruz of your problem.  Double check the permissions on
this file, and that the webserver is still running with the same
permissions it was before the upgrade, etc.

--
Virginia J. Beauregard                            virginia at texterity.com
UNIX Systems and Network Administrator                   Texterity, Inc.





From WayneR at STROSNIDERS.com  Fri Oct 20 17:09:38 2000
From: WayneR at STROSNIDERS.com (Wayne Ringling)
Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 11:09:38 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] RPM of Mailman beta6
Message-ID: <AD16479CE7C5D2118A6C00E0290BA9370613AF@SRV-BDC-EMAIL>

 
 Has anyone created a rpm of Beta 6 yet?  I found beta5 but want to use the
latest and greatest version on a new box.

If so please email to me. thanks

Wayne Ringling

wayner at strosniders.com



From marouf at earlham.edu  Fri Oct 20 17:24:20 2000
From: marouf at earlham.edu (Nick Marouf)
Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 10:24:20 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: [Mailman] Sending to multiple lists problem
References: <39E5290C.E2AEA810@earlham.edu> <14831.64250.194461.677635@anthem.concentric.net>
Message-ID: <39F063A4.D4F7D9FA@earlham.edu>

"Barry A. Warsaw" wrote:
> 
> >>>>> "NM" == Nick Marouf <marouf at earlham.edu> writes:
> 
>     NM> Hi all, I've sent out an email about this from before, and
>     NM> checked the bugs page, but with still the same problem.
> 
>     NM> When I send a message to more that one list, only one of them
>     NM> gets to the list. I have been trying to find patterns for
>     NM> this, with no luck.  However I get the mailog for a msg ID and
>     NM> I get this back
> 
>     NM> -------------------- [root at yang qfiles]# grep VAA15050
>     NM> /var/log/maillog Oct 11 21:44:08 yang sendmail[15050]:
>     NM> VAA15050: from=<marouf at earlham.edu>, size=576, class=0,
>     NM> pri=90576, nrcpts=3, msgid=<39E5252F.8B2CB1DD at earlham.edu>,
>     NM> proto=ESMTP, relay=IDENT:marouf at blackened.student.earlham.edu
>     NM> [159.28.163.72] Oct 11 21:44:08 yang sendmail[15051]:
>     NM> VAA15050: to="| /home/software/mailman/mail/wrapper post
>     NM> dusko-test" , delay=00:00:00, xdelay=00:00:00, mailer=prog,
>     NM> stat=Sent Oct 11 21:44:09 yang sendmail[15051]: VAA15050:
>     NM> to="| /home/software/mailman/mail/wrapper post tomstest" ,
>     NM> delay=00:00:01, xdelay=00:00:01, mailer=prog, stat=Sent Oct 11
>     NM> 21:44:09 yang sendmail[15051]: VAA15050:
>     NM> to="|/home/software/mailman/mail/wrapper post test",
>     NM> delay=00:00:01, xdelay=00:00:00, mailer=prog, stat=Sent
>     NM> [root at yang qfiles]#
> 
>     NM> -------------------------
> 
>     NM> [root at yang qfiles]# grep VAA15050 *
>     NM> db87ce92166797b4fb87d4567287e6719aae35b9.msg: by earlham.edu
>     NM> (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA15050;
>     NM> e8196ba32d986fda376810890252a5a409af9013.msg: by earlham.edu
>     NM> (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA15050;
>     NM> f0b0d1938a6b4c018dd3972a82f8da088519dc5a.msg: by earlham.edu
>     NM> (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA15050; [root at yang qfiles]#
> 
>     NM> ----------------------------
> 
>     NM> I only get one message, the other two mailing list have
>     NM> different users in them, just incase sendmail was being smart
>     NM> and checking if the user aliases go to the same user.
> 
>     NM> Does anyone have this problem, or has it, Just to know that I
>     NM> am not the only one running into it. And any help would be
>     NM> grateley appreciated.
> 
>     | TIA,
>     | Nick
> 
>     NM> Running Beta6 on RH6.2
> 
> I've not been able to reproduce this using the current CVS snapshot
> (post-beta6).  You might send a message to mailman-users at python.org to
> see if anybody else has had similar problems.
> 
> -Barry


Hi Barry,
	I installed the latest cvs yesterday and it is working fine now. It
also fixed the Oct 20 01:06:00 2000 (31286) Delivery exception: [Errno
75] Value too large for defined
data type    bug.

its strange.. as I have no idea what might have been wrong, or what
might have been patched up.


Thanks for your help.

Nick



From dgallagher at starnetinc.com  Fri Oct 20 17:31:07 2000
From: dgallagher at starnetinc.com (Dom Gallagher)
Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 16:31:07 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] New headers?
In-Reply-To: <IIEBLDMEINDOBBODINPNIEIHCBAA.jw@w3.ca>
Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20001020163057.00b4fa48@maild.starnetinc.com>

At 11:38 10/20/00 -0300, Jeff Warnica wrote:

>Upgrading to beta6 has caused there to be some new headers included in
>outgoing messages, List-Post etc..
>
>Is there a way to suppress these?



I asked this question a couple days ago. Someone suggested filtering at the 
MTA level, which I didn't want to do, or editing the source (having never 
used Python before, this was the lesser of two evils).

There's a file, [path to mailman]/Mailman/Handlers/CookHeaders.py that has 
these headers in.
Either comment out the lines with the offending headers, or stick a del 
msg['Header-Name'] in there at the end.

You need to recompile that, but I have no idea how to do that optimally - I 
used the line from the Makefile:
python -c 'from compileall import *; compile_dir("[path to mailman]/Mailman")'

Hope this helps :)

Dom Gallagher





From stephanie at hawkbane.net  Fri Oct 20 17:28:24 2000
From: stephanie at hawkbane.net (Stephanie Martinez)
Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 10:28:24 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Error with Red Hat 7.0
In-Reply-To: <Pine.WNT.4.21.0010200921110.364-100000@pasta.jmorris.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0010201028020.19226-100000@castle.hawkbane.net>

Actually the best I can figure out is it didnd't like me using the
backus of the old database formats.  If I created new lists, they work
fine.

Go figure =(

On Fri, 20 Oct 2000, Joe Morris wrote:

> On Thu, 19 Oct 2000, Stephanie Martinez wrote:
> 
> | I can't figure this one out.  I had everything working fine under 6.2.
> | 
> | I upgraded my system to 7.0 and I get the following error message when I
> | try to approve a pending email:
> | 
> | If you would like to help us identify the problem, please email a copy of
> | this page to the webmaster for this site with a description of what
> | happened. Thanks! 
> | 
> | Traceback:
> | 
> | Traceback (innermost last):
> |   File "/home/mailman/scripts/driver", line 96, in run_main
> |     main()
> |   File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/admindb.py", line 97, in main
> |     mlist.Save()
> |   File "/home/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 845, in Save
> |     self.SaveRequestsDb()
> |   File "/home/mailman/Mailman/ListAdmin.py", line 93, in SaveRequestsDb
> |     self.__closedb()
> |   File "/home/mailman/Mailman/ListAdmin.py", line 80, in __closedb
> |     fp = open(self.__filename, 'w')
> | IOError: [Errno 13] Permission
> | denied: '/home/mailman/lists/seventh-guides/request.db'
> 
> Appears some permissions have changed.  Verify sendmail (or whatever MTA
> you are using) is still using the same uig/gid.
> 
> I have Mailman running on RH70 and it works fine.
> 
> _______________________________________________________
> Joe Morris                http://www.ibiblio.org/morris
> Web Systems Manager, ATN            http://help.unc.edu
> UNC-Chapel Hill                      http://www.unc.edu
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users maillist  -  Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> 




From claw at kanga.nu  Fri Oct 20 18:21:32 2000
From: claw at kanga.nu (J C Lawrence)
Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 09:21:32 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] how to change MM-Archive when externally archiving lists under virtual domains 
In-Reply-To: Message from Chuq Von Rospach <chuqui@plaidworks.com> 
   of "Thu, 19 Oct 2000 20:43:34 PDT." <p04330105b6156fc04995@[17.216.27.202]> 
References: <39EFA0E7.9178722A@alum.mit.edu>  <p04330105b6156fc04995@[17.216.27.202]> 
Message-ID: <7222.972058892@kanga.nu>

On Thu, 19 Oct 2000 20:43:34 -0700 
Chuq Von Rospach <chuqui at plaidworks.com> wrote:

> At 9:33 PM -0400 10/19/00, Alex Aminoff wrote:
>> I want to use an external archiving program (in this case
>> MHonArc). I set the PUBLIC_EXTERNAL_ARCHIVER and
>> PRIVATE_EXTERNAL_ARCHIVER to appropriate strings in mm_cfg.py,
>> but that only sets the default.

> I worked with thsoe for a while, and finally decided to create a
> mail alias for MHonarc and subscribe it to the list. I just never
> got it working the way I wanted.

I do similarly, tho for different reasons.  The mail that Mailman
passes off to the archiver (be it internal or external) is not the
same as the mail it sends to subscribers in that some of the header
munging, fotter adding etc hasn't happened yet.  I didn't like this
as I specifically wanted my archives to represent what my users saw.

-- 
J C Lawrence                                 Home: claw at kanga.nu
---------(*)                               Other: coder at kanga.nu
http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/        Keys etc: finger claw at kanga.nu
--=| A man is as sane as he is dangerous to his environment |=--



From Dan.Mick at west.sun.com  Fri Oct 20 20:09:08 2000
From: Dan.Mick at west.sun.com (Dan Mick)
Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 11:09:08 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] New headers?
References: <4.3.2.7.2.20001020163057.00b4fa48@maild.starnetinc.com>
Message-ID: <39F08A44.7D0B6FFD@west.sun.com>


Dom Gallagher wrote:

> You need to recompile that, but I have no idea how to do that optimally - I
> used the line from the Makefile:
> python -c 'from compileall import *; compile_dir("[path to mailman]/Mailman")'

Not really; the new code will get used next time as long as the timestamps
are right.  If you want to worry, you can just remove the .pyc file, and that
way it will *surely* get recompiled next time it's used.



From jw at w3.ca  Fri Oct 20 20:15:39 2000
From: jw at w3.ca (Jeff Warnica)
Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 15:15:39 -0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] /admin hanging
Message-ID: <IIEBLDMEINDOBBODINPNCEILCBAA.jw@w3.ca>

With my upgrade to the most recent beta, /admin is hanging on one list..

I did a check_db on it, and its reported as fine, but manualy doing a
add_members also hangs.

This only is happenig with one of the lists. Any ideas?

--
Jeff Warnica         					 noc at w3intetnet.com
Network Operations Manager 			       W3 Internet Services
Voice: (902) 425-2969 ext. 17 				Fax: (902) 425-2822




From chuqui at plaidworks.com  Fri Oct 20 20:20:28 2000
From: chuqui at plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach)
Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 11:20:28 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] /admin hanging
In-Reply-To: <IIEBLDMEINDOBBODINPNCEILCBAA.jw@w3.ca>
References: <IIEBLDMEINDOBBODINPNCEILCBAA.jw@w3.ca>
Message-ID: <p04330107b6163d611a84@[17.216.27.202]>

go into the locks director.y you probably have a dead lock.


At 3:15 PM -0300 10/20/00, Jeff Warnica wrote:
>With my upgrade to the most recent beta, /admin is hanging on one list..
>
>I did a check_db on it, and its reported as fine, but manualy doing a
>add_members also hangs.
>
>This only is happenig with one of the lists. Any ideas?
>
>--
>Jeff Warnica        					 noc at w3intetnet.com
>Network Operations Manager			       W3 Internet Services
>Voice: (902) 425-2969 ext. 17				Fax: (902) 425-2822
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------
>Mailman-Users maillist  -  Mailman-Users at python.org
>http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users

-- 
Chuq Von Rospach - Plaidworks Consulting (mailto:chuqui at plaidworks.com)
Apple Mail List Gnome (mailto:chuq at apple.com)

Be just, and fear not.



From jw at w3.ca  Fri Oct 20 20:26:25 2000
From: jw at w3.ca (Jeff Warnica)
Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 15:26:25 -0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] /admin hanging
In-Reply-To: <p04330107b6163d611a84@[17.216.27.202]>
Message-ID: <IIEBLDMEINDOBBODINPNOEILCBAA.jw@w3.ca>

This cleared it up..

Thanx

> -----Original Message-----
> From: mailman-users-admin at python.org
> [mailto:mailman-users-admin at python.org]On Behalf Of Chuq Von Rospach
> Sent: Friday, October 20, 2000 3:20 PM
> To: Jeff Warnica; mailman-users at python.org
> Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] /admin hanging
> 
> 
> go into the locks director.y you probably have a dead lock.
> 
> 
> At 3:15 PM -0300 10/20/00, Jeff Warnica wrote:
> >With my upgrade to the most recent beta, /admin is hanging on one list..
> >
> >I did a check_db on it, and its reported as fine, but manualy doing a
> >add_members also hangs.
> >
> >This only is happenig with one of the lists. Any ideas?
> >
> >--
> >Jeff Warnica        					 noc at w3intetnet.com
> >Network Operations Manager			       W3 Internet Services
> >Voice: (902) 425-2969 ext. 17				
> Fax: (902) 425-2822
> >
> >
> >------------------------------------------------------
> >Mailman-Users maillist  -  Mailman-Users at python.org
> >http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> 
> -- 
> Chuq Von Rospach - Plaidworks Consulting (mailto:chuqui at plaidworks.com)
> Apple Mail List Gnome (mailto:chuq at apple.com)
> 
> Be just, and fear not.
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users maillist  -  Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> 



From stevefx at us.ibm.com  Fri Oct 20 20:31:47 2000
From: stevefx at us.ibm.com (stevefx at us.ibm.com)
Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 13:31:47 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Digest Mode separator
Message-ID: <OF90E77705.A17A77BC-ON8625697E.006593A3@RCHLAND.IBM.COM>

Greetings all,

I received a request from a user that the separator for digest messages be
made more distinguishable. He claims that with people quoting other's text
frequently it makes it difficult to tell where messages start and stop. I
searched the -developers and -users archives but didn't find any discussion
of this topic.

Is this something that would be considered?

Steve Fox
IBM Linux Technology Center
http://oss.software.ibm.com/developerworks/opensource/linux
http://stevefx.rchland.ibm.com (IBM Intranet)




From Dan.Mick at West.Sun.COM  Fri Oct 20 20:55:44 2000
From: Dan.Mick at West.Sun.COM (Dan Mick)
Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 11:55:44 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Digest Mode separator
Message-ID: <200010201854.LAA22601@utopia.west.sun.com>

Looks like changing MIME_SEPARATOR in Mailman/Handlers/ToDigest.py
would be all you need to do, although I'm not sure what "more distinctive"
would be.

> Greetings all,
> 
> I received a request from a user that the separator for digest messages be
> made more distinguishable. He claims that with people quoting other's text
> frequently it makes it difficult to tell where messages start and stop. I
> searched the -developers and -users archives but didn't find any discussion
> of this topic.
> 
> Is this something that would be considered?
> 
> Steve Fox
> IBM Linux Technology Center
> http://oss.software.ibm.com/developerworks/opensource/linux
> http://stevefx.rchland.ibm.com (IBM Intranet)




From stevefx at us.ibm.com  Fri Oct 20 21:01:30 2000
From: stevefx at us.ibm.com (stevefx at us.ibm.com)
Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 14:01:30 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Digest Mode separator
Message-ID: <OFAC565D38.1CDC56CE-ON8625697E.0068778B@RCHLAND.IBM.COM>

Very nice! Thank you much.

Steve Fox
IBM Linux Technology Center
http://oss.software.ibm.com/developerworks/opensource/linux
http://stevefx.rchland.ibm.com (IBM Intranet)




Please respond to Dan Mick <Dan.Mick at West.Sun.COM>

Sent by:  mailman-users-admin at python.org


To:   mailman-users at python.org, Steve Fox/Rochester/IBM at IBMUS
cc:
Subject:  Re: [Mailman-Users] Digest Mode separator



Looks like changing MIME_SEPARATOR in Mailman/Handlers/ToDigest.py
would be all you need to do, although I'm not sure what "more distinctive"
would be.





From starbux at Purerave.com  Sat Oct 21 15:39:06 2000
From: starbux at Purerave.com (s t a r b u x)
Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 09:39:06 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Sendmail Authentication Warning with v2.0b6
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10010210914460.24742-100000@xtc.Purerave.com>

I am running v2.0beta6 under Linux with Sendmail 8.11.1 (was also using
8.9.3).

Everything seems to work great except I am noticing a few things in the
maillog from Sendmail.

This warning occurs when someone posts to the list and it goes to send the
message out to each subscriber ---- 
Oct 21 09:10 sendmail[24693]: e9LDAG124693: Authentication-Warning:
Purerave.com: mailman set sender to <listname>-admin at lists.Purerave.com
using -f

This error appears in the maillog when someone goes to subscribe via the
webpage ---
Oct 21 09:16 sendmail[24765]: e9LDGff24765: Authentication-Warning:
Purerave.com: nobody set sender to <listname>-admin at lists.Purerave.com
using -f

I am not sure if I should be worrying about it or not, but it also appears
in the headers of the message ---
X-Authentication-Warning: xtc.Purerave.com: nobody set sender to
purerave-staff-admin at lists.Purerave.com using -f

Any ideas?




From tim at maths.tcd.ie  Sat Oct 21 15:50:04 2000
From: tim at maths.tcd.ie (tim at maths.tcd.ie)
Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 14:50:04 +0100 (BST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archiving
Message-ID: <200010211450.aa19897@boole.maths.tcd.ie>

We've recently gone over to Mailman (2.0beta5) from majordomo.
Mailman seems to work very well,
except that archiving does not appear to be implemented.
That is, the archives remain empty
even though messages have been posted to the list
(and archiving is turned on -- that was the default -- 
on the admin screen).

I wondered, if archiving is set to monthly
does one have to wait till the end of the month
for the archive to appear?

Any suggestions or advice gratefully received.


Timothy Murphy  
e-mail: tim at maths.tcd.ie
tel: 086-233 6090
s-mail: School of Mathematics, Trinity College, Dublin 2, Ireland



From mbrennen at fni.com  Sat Oct 21 17:25:32 2000
From: mbrennen at fni.com (Michael Brennen)
Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 10:25:32 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Sendmail Authentication Warning with v2.0b6
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10010210914460.24742-100000@xtc.Purerave.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0010211021220.9059-100000@henry.fni.com>

To avoid this you will need to make <listname>-admin a 'trusted'
user to sendmail.  You can either put all such addresses in a
sendmail.ct file or put them directly in the sendmail.cf file, such
as below.

   -- Michael

===========================================
# this is equivalent to setting class "t"
Ft/etc/sendmail.ct
Troot
Tdaemon
Tuucp
===========================================

On Sat, 21 Oct 2000, s t a r b u x wrote:

> This warning occurs when someone posts to the list and it goes to send the
> message out to each subscriber ---- 
> Oct 21 09:10 sendmail[24693]: e9LDAG124693: Authentication-Warning:
> Purerave.com: mailman set sender to <listname>-admin at lists.Purerave.com
> using -f
> 
> This error appears in the maillog when someone goes to subscribe via the
> webpage ---
> Oct 21 09:16 sendmail[24765]: e9LDGff24765: Authentication-Warning:
> Purerave.com: nobody set sender to <listname>-admin at lists.Purerave.com
> using -f




From sacha at zacha.org  Sat Oct 21 18:55:57 2000
From: sacha at zacha.org (Sacha)
Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 18:55:57 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archiving
In-Reply-To: <200010211450.aa19897@boole.maths.tcd.ie>
References: <200010211450.aa19897@boole.maths.tcd.ie>
Message-ID: <34189213835.20001021185557@zacha.org>

> We've recently gone over to Mailman (2.0beta5) from majordomo.
> Mailman seems to work very well,
> except that archiving does not appear to be implemented.
> That is, the archives remain empty
> even though messages have been posted to the list
> (and archiving is turned on -- that was the default -- 
> on the admin screen).

I'm working with Mailman version 2.0beta6 and I can't get the archiving
working at all... whenever I turn on the archiving, all the mail won't be
delivered until I turn the archiving back off again. Does anyone know how
to fix this or does anyone have a suggestion for another version of
Mailman?


Thanks!

Sacha

-- 
Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day; teach him to use the Net
and he won't bother you for weeks. 


>> Tripwire                                               by zacha <<
__________________ Things that make you go *hm?* ____________________





From lindsey at mallorn.com  Sat Oct 21 21:56:12 2000
From: lindsey at mallorn.com (Christopher P. Lindsey)
Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 14:56:12 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Sendmail Authentication Warning with v2.0b6
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0010211021220.9059-100000@henry.fni.com>; from mbrennen@fni.com on Sat, Oct 21, 2000 at 10:25:32AM -0500
References: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10010210914460.24742-100000@xtc.Purerave.com> <Pine.LNX.4.21.0010211021220.9059-100000@henry.fni.com>
Message-ID: <20001021145612.A21847@mallorn.com>

> To avoid this you will need to make <listname>-admin a 'trusted'
> user to sendmail.  You can either put all such addresses in a
> sendmail.ct file or put them directly in the sendmail.cf file, such
> as below.

Umm, this should be the user 'nobody', not <listname>-admin.  It's
based on the username/uid of the process changing the envelope 
sender.

You'll also have to HUP sendmail for the changes to take place.

Chris

> > This warning occurs when someone posts to the list and it goes to send the
> > message out to each subscriber ---- 
> > Oct 21 09:10 sendmail[24693]: e9LDAG124693: Authentication-Warning:
> > Purerave.com: mailman set sender to <listname>-admin at lists.Purerave.com
> > using -f




From barry at wooz.org  Mon Oct 23 08:37:06 2000
From: barry at wooz.org (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 02:37:06 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bug in 2.0beta5
References: <x88n1g2guf3.fsf@adglinux1.hns.com>
Message-ID: <14835.56466.177148.336740@anthem.concentric.net>

>>>>> "nbecker" ==   <nbecker at fred.net> writes:

    nbecker> Using the admin general GUI web I/F, I was able to set an
    nbecker> explicity reply-to.  But I can't get rid of it!!
    nbecker> Deleting the explicit reply-to and submitting the changes
    nbecker> doesn't clear it!

Known bug, which should be fixed in the current CVS tree.

-Barry



From barry at wooz.org  Mon Oct 23 08:50:57 2000
From: barry at wooz.org (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 02:50:57 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] how to change MM-Archive when externally archiving lists under virtual domains 
References: <39EFA0E7.9178722A@alum.mit.edu>
	<p04330105b6156fc04995@[17.216.27.202]>
	<7222.972058892@kanga.nu>
Message-ID: <14835.57297.277312.656082@anthem.concentric.net>

>>>>> "JCL" == J C Lawrence <claw at kanga.nu> writes:

    >> I worked with thsoe for a while, and finally decided to create
    >> a mail alias for MHonarc and subscribe it to the list. I just
    >> never got it working the way I wanted.

    JCL> I do similarly, tho for different reasons.  The mail that
    JCL> Mailman passes off to the archiver (be it internal or
    JCL> external) is not the same as the mail it sends to subscribers
    JCL> in that some of the header munging, fotter adding etc hasn't
    JCL> happened yet.  I didn't like this as I specifically wanted my
    JCL> archives to represent what my users saw.

You could move the ToArchive module to later in the LIST_PIPELINE in
Mailman/Handlers/HandlerAPI.py.  If you move it after Decorate, it
should get the headers and footers.

-Barry



From JSharp at workforcehr.com  Mon Oct 23 12:12:46 2000
From: JSharp at workforcehr.com (Jon Sharp)
Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 11:12:46 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Showing recipient address not list address
Message-ID: <01C03CE2.2CF038B0.JSharp@workforcehr.com>

Hi

Is it possible to show a recipient's address in the To: part of a message 
rather than the listname at whatever? We would like to use Mailman as a 
newsletter service to begin with but the powers that be insist that we 
cannot go live until this is sorted.

Apologies if it's a simple configuration setting.

Jon Sharp



From Nigel.Metheringham at VData.co.uk  Mon Oct 23 12:43:56 2000
From: Nigel.Metheringham at VData.co.uk (Nigel Metheringham)
Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 11:43:56 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Showing recipient address not list address 
In-Reply-To: Message from Jon Sharp <JSharp@workforcehr.com> 
   of "Mon, 23 Oct 2000 11:12:46 BST." <01C03CE2.2CF038B0.JSharp@workforcehr.com> 
Message-ID: <E13nf5A-0007Rd-00@rioja.localnet>

JSharp at workforcehr.com said:
> Is it possible to show a recipient's address in the To: part of a
> message  rather than the listname at whatever? We would like to use
> Mailman as a  newsletter service to begin with but the powers that be
> insist that we  cannot go live until this is sorted. 

Mailman just doesn't do that - it requires that you have a unique 
message per recipient which is not the way that mailman currently works.

If that is a hard requirement for you then you are either going to have 
to start writing python (probably easiest to do by writing yourself a 
new MTA pipeline), or find an alternative package.  Its just not going 
to be a 2.0 release item.

	Nigel.
-- 
[ - Opinions expressed are personal and may not be shared by VData - ]
[ Nigel Metheringham                  Nigel.Metheringham at VData.co.uk ]
[ Phone: +44 1423 850000                         Fax +44 1423 858866 ]





From simon at uow.edu.au  Mon Oct 23 13:25:01 2000
From: simon at uow.edu.au (Simon Coggins)
Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 22:25:01 +1100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman has serious problems. (Beta6) [repeated mail delivery]
Message-ID: <20001023222500.D26555@uow.edu.au>

Since my last post regarding this, I've had little response regarding
possible problems. Those replies I did get suggested permission problems and
a problem with qrunner. I've ruled both of these out. Every day now i get a
mail loop and tonight it caused 1 (moderated) message to be delivered 10
times to a list with over 700 people on it. That isn't good.

I wrote a wrapper script for qrunner to make sure it was locking properly
and the problem persisted. I made sure all files were always owned in qfiles
 by mailman and the problem persisted. I'm out of ideas and patients. I
cannot use mailman in a production environment without it causes *BIG*
problems. 

I hope someone finds this problem and fixes it as I won't be recommending
mailman until it is. As for my lists, I have to move them back to majordomo.

-- 
Simon Coggins (SAGE-AU Member)                     Email: simon at uow.edu.au
Network and System Management Officer              Phone: +61-2-4221-3775
Information Technology Systems (ITS)               Mobile: 0408 115861
University of Wollongong, 2522, Australia          Fax:   +61-2-4229-1985



From benites at cs.unca.edu  Mon Oct 23 14:03:42 2000
From: benites at cs.unca.edu (Robert Benites)
Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 08:03:42 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman-2.0beta6 Error message
Message-ID: <200010231203.e9NC3gu05169@marshall.cs.unca.edu>

I am running the subject version of Mailman on a Compaq Tru64 UNIX
system having recently replaced my mailman-2.0beta5 version.

As administrator I've gotten serveral copies of the same message
including the following error diagnostics:

Traceback (innermost last):
  File "/usr/users/mailman/cron/gate_news", line 222, in ?
    main()
  File "/usr/users/mailman/cron/gate_news", line 198, in main
    lock.lock(timeout=0.5)
  File "/usr/users/mailman/Mailman/LockFile.py", line 219, in lock
    self.__write()
  File "/usr/users/mailman/Mailman/LockFile.py", line 348, in __write
    fp.close()
IOError: [Errno 5] I/O error

I'm pretty sure I've seen another post regarding this particular error
but I can't seem to find this in the archives. Has this been posted
before, and is there a fix?

I went to SourceForge to look at the patches, but I'm not sure any of
them are applicable.

Are there instructions of how to download/install patches from
SourceForge? 

Thanks...

-- Bob



From jeff at crossvalley.com  Mon Oct 23 19:17:08 2000
From: jeff at crossvalley.com (Jeff Maxwell)
Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 13:17:08 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] more than one group for cgi?
Message-ID: <p04330107b61a22e25c62@[10.10.10.2]>

I have installed mailman but, I am running into a problem with its operation.

When I use the web interface it changes the ownership of the lists 
config.dbs to nobody which is the group that I used to run the 
configure script. (it is the group apache runs in on my machine.) 
After the config.dbs are changed by using the web interface I can 
only get mail to work by changing the ownership back to mailman.

Would using both groups in the configure script solve this problem?
The docs say this can be done, but what is the proper syntax for 
using to groups with (--with-cgi-gid=) ?
-- 
Jeff Maxwell
jeff at crossvalley.com



From haroldp at sierraweb.com  Tue Oct 24 00:51:12 2000
From: haroldp at sierraweb.com (Harold Paulson)
Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 15:51:12 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Feature Request
Message-ID: <v04220819b61a70fabc5b@[216.162.173.6]>

Hello,

I managed to get a couple days off (to go to the BSDCon, wooh) and of 
course everything broke while I was out of the office  :)

Mailman broke too, I'm afraid.  One of our lists sent out a slew of 
duplicate messages until it was killed manually.  This is Mailman 
2.0b5 on FreeBSD 4.0-STABLE.  I did patch Python to fix the LAST mail 
looping bug, so I haven't figured out why it misbehaved this time.

Anyway, I have a feature request that relates to this.  What do you 
think about adding a lookup table for each list with digests of the 
bodies of the last day's  posts.  When Mail man sends message, it 
could check that table to see if it has already sent an exact 
duplicate, and perhaps notify the administrator if a duplicate pops 
up.  Does that make sense?  I don't do Python yet, or I would attempt 
this myself.

I don't know what caused this last loop, but whatever the reason was, 
I wish Mailman had some safeguards that would have detected and 
prevented it.  These are pretty painful when they happen.

Thanks for listening.

	- H

PS: second attempt to send this.  First try gave me an error message...

Harold Paulson                  Sierra Web Design
haroldp at sierraweb.com           http://www.sierraweb.com
VOICE: 775.833.9500             FAX:   810.314.1517



From haroldp at sierraweb.com  Tue Oct 24 01:10:22 2000
From: haroldp at sierraweb.com (Harold Paulson)
Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 16:10:22 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Subscribe dead for ONE list
Message-ID: <v0422081ab61a73b35ff6@[216.162.173.6]>

Hi,

One list (of many) seems to be broken for subscribing on my server. 
I am running Mailman 2.0b5 on FreeBSD 4.0-STABLE, sendmail...

I just get an error when I try to subscribe through the web 
interface.  the traceback looks like this:

Traceback (innermost last):
   File "/usr/local/mailman/scripts/driver", line 96, in run_main
     main()
   File "../Mailman/Cgi/subscribe.py", line 61, in main
     process_form(mlist, doc)
   File "../Mailman/Cgi/subscribe.py", line 174, in process_form
     mlist.AddMember(email, pw, digest, remote)
   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 1007, in AddMember
     self.HoldSubscription(name, password, digest)
   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/ListAdmin.py", line 299, in HoldSubscription
     {'username'   : addr,
   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Utils.py", line 476, in maketext
     file = os.path.join(listpath, templatefile)
   File "/usr/local/lib/python1.5/posixpath.py", line 45, in join
     elif path == '' or path[-1:] == '/':
AttributeError: __len__


Any Ideas?  logs/errors has about the same thing.  locks/ doesn't 
seem to have any for this list. bin/check_perms disn't fix anything, 
and bin/check_db didn't find anything.  No other lists seem to have 
this problem(?)  Thanks.

	- H

Harold Paulson                  Sierra Web Design
haroldp at sierraweb.com           http://www.sierraweb.com
VOICE: 775.833.9500             FAX:   810.314.1517



From eric at freestyle.com  Tue Oct 24 02:24:32 2000
From: eric at freestyle.com (Eric Thompson)
Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 17:24:32 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Daily error message
Message-ID: <20001024002432.71205.qmail@sennen.com>

I'm getting the following error constantly (and daily when the checkdbs
cronjob runs) -- it also appears to be preventing the admin web UI from 
working.  Any clues?  This 2.0b6 running on FreeBSD 4.1.1/Intel and has
been upgraded from 2.0b2->b3->b6 -- prior to b6 it was fine.

Eric


>From logs/errors:
> Oct 23 17:05:04 2000 (70562) Delivery exception: EOF read where object expected
> Oct 23 17:05:04 2000 (70562) Traceback (innermost last):
>   File "/usr/local/mailman/nasalameda/Mailman/Handlers/HandlerAPI.py", line 82, 
> in do_pipeline
>     func(mlist, msg, msgdata)
>   File "/usr/local/mailman/nasalameda/Mailman/Handlers/Hold.py", line 135, in pr
> ocess
>     hold_for_approval(mlist, msg, msgdata, ModeratedPost)
>   File "/usr/local/mailman/nasalameda/Mailman/Handlers/Hold.py", line 218, in ho
> ld_for_approval
>     mlist.HoldMessage(msg, reason, msgdata)
>   File "/usr/local/mailman/nasalameda/Mailman/ListAdmin.py", line 144, in HoldMe
> ssage
>     self.__opendb()
>   File "/usr/local/mailman/nasalameda/Mailman/ListAdmin.py", line 69, in __opend
> b
>     self.__db = marshal.load(fp)
> EOFError: EOF read where object expected




From barry at wooz.org  Tue Oct 24 05:21:03 2000
From: barry at wooz.org (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 23:21:03 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Announcing Mailman 2.0 release candidate 1
Message-ID: <14837.31.307339.963344@anthem.concentric.net>

Hello folks,

Okay, we're really close now!  I've put together Mailman 2.0 release
candidate 1 and uploaded it to SourceForge.  You can grab the tarball
from the file release page at

    http://sourceforge.net/project/shownotes.php?release_id=14446

www.list.org and www.gnu.org should be updated soon.  This release
contains a bunch of bug fixes and a few local security patches.  The
source code is essentially frozen, modulo any last minute show stopper
bugs.  I will probably make a pass at the documentation before the
final release.  Expect 2.0 final hopefully by the weekend.

Enjoy,
-Barry



From siew_chin at yahoo.com  Tue Oct 24 06:07:07 2000
From: siew_chin at yahoo.com (Yee Siew Chin)
Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 21:07:07 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] nntp on mailman
Message-ID: <20001024040707.19813.qmail@web2304.mail.yahoo.com>

hi

can anyone help me this message i get ?
i seems dont understand it...i am using RedHat 7 with
Mailman 2.0b6

Traceback (innermost last):
  File "/home/mailman/cron/gate_news", line 222, in ?
    main()
  File "/home/mailman/cron/gate_news", line 203, in
main
    process_lists(lock)
  File "/home/mailman/cron/gate_news", line 148, in
process_lists
    conn, first, last = open_newsgroup(mlist)
  File "/home/mailman/cron/gate_news", line 75, in
open_newsgroup
    password=mm_cfg.NNTP_PASSWORD)
  File "/home/mailman/Mailman/pythonlib/nntplib.py",
line 111, in __init__
    self.sock.connect((self.host, self.port))
socket.error: host not found

regards,
yee

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf!  It's FREE.
http://im.yahoo.com/



From Dan.Mick at West.Sun.COM  Tue Oct 24 06:17:18 2000
From: Dan.Mick at West.Sun.COM (Dan Mick)
Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 21:17:18 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] nntp on mailman
Message-ID: <200010240416.VAA26587@utopia.west.sun.com>

Sure looks like the host you've configured for NNTP isn't found.
Did you check that?  (like, can you ping it, or get to it with
your newsreader from the Mailman machine?)

> hi
> 
> can anyone help me this message i get ?
> i seems dont understand it...i am using RedHat 7 with
> Mailman 2.0b6
> 
> Traceback (innermost last):
>   File "/home/mailman/cron/gate_news", line 222, in ?
>     main()
>   File "/home/mailman/cron/gate_news", line 203, in
> main
>     process_lists(lock)
>   File "/home/mailman/cron/gate_news", line 148, in
> process_lists
>     conn, first, last = open_newsgroup(mlist)
>   File "/home/mailman/cron/gate_news", line 75, in
> open_newsgroup
>     password=mm_cfg.NNTP_PASSWORD)
>   File "/home/mailman/Mailman/pythonlib/nntplib.py",
> line 111, in __init__
>     self.sock.connect((self.host, self.port))
> socket.error: host not found
> 
> regards,
> yee
> 




From eric at freestyle.com  Tue Oct 24 07:28:08 2000
From: eric at freestyle.com (Eric Thompson)
Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 22:28:08 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Daily error message
In-Reply-To: <20001024002432.71205.qmail@sennen.com> "from Eric Thompson at Oct
 23, 2000 05:24:32 pm"
Message-ID: <20001024052808.17269.qmail@sennen.com>

I figured out that this error occurs when request.db is 0 bytes.
I upgraded to 2.0rc1 and python 2.0, and the error still occurs when
request.db is 0 bytes, but removing request.db solves the problem
(temporarily; I don't know what causes it to zero out).

Eric



Eric Thompson:
> I'm getting the following error constantly (and daily when the checkdbs
> cronjob runs) -- it also appears to be preventing the admin web UI from 
> working.  Any clues?  This 2.0b6 running on FreeBSD 4.1.1/Intel and has
> been upgraded from 2.0b2->b3->b6 -- prior to b6 it was fine.
> 
> Eric
> 
> 
> >From logs/errors:
> > Oct 23 17:05:04 2000 (70562) Delivery exception: EOF read where object expected
> > Oct 23 17:05:04 2000 (70562) Traceback (innermost last):
> >   File "/usr/local/mailman/nasalameda/Mailman/Handlers/HandlerAPI.py", line 82, 
> > in do_pipeline
> >     func(mlist, msg, msgdata)
> >   File "/usr/local/mailman/nasalameda/Mailman/Handlers/Hold.py", line 135, in pr
> > ocess
> >     hold_for_approval(mlist, msg, msgdata, ModeratedPost)
> >   File "/usr/local/mailman/nasalameda/Mailman/Handlers/Hold.py", line 218, in ho
> > ld_for_approval
> >     mlist.HoldMessage(msg, reason, msgdata)
> >   File "/usr/local/mailman/nasalameda/Mailman/ListAdmin.py", line 144, in HoldMe
> > ssage
> >     self.__opendb()
> >   File "/usr/local/mailman/nasalameda/Mailman/ListAdmin.py", line 69, in __opend
> > b
> >     self.__db = marshal.load(fp)
> > EOFError: EOF read where object expected
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users maillist  -  Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> 




From adler at bnl.gov  Tue Oct 24 15:43:55 2000
From: adler at bnl.gov (Stephen Adler)
Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 13:43:55 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] I forgot my admin password
Message-ID: <1001024134355.ZM9956@ssadler.phy.bnl.gov>

Help,

I manage a mailing list using the mail man software I got from www.list.org.
The problem is that I've forgotten my admin password. Is there anyway
to get it without having to rebuild the mail list I'm admining?

Thanks. Steve.



From beasterwood at theagosgroup.com  Tue Oct 24 15:49:54 2000
From: beasterwood at theagosgroup.com (Brian Easterwood)
Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 08:49:54 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] repeating footers
Message-ID: <230C3F2104A8D211A6E500A0C9EC76D023948B@AGOS2>

Is there any way to suppress footers that repeat when a thread gets long?



From michael at spconnect.com  Tue Oct 24 16:56:32 2000
From: michael at spconnect.com (Michael Ghens)
Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 07:56:32 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Feature Request
In-Reply-To: <39F04FF3.543514D7@woptura.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0010240750250.3180-100000@merlin.spconnect.com>

I know that it is too late for the final, but maybe in the future. 

On a member only list, a flag so that the admin does not have to  go and
delete an non-member post.

A auto subscribe feature. If a non member posts, it goes through and they
are automatically subscribed. Currently dealing with a bunch of lusers (I
was going to say bozo, but Bozo the clown was at least good at what he
did) who just can't catch a clue for the life of them, that they must
subscribe first, or that after they subscribe, they just can't go around
from hotmail, to yahoo, to work, to what ever and post. I say, "Let they
eat mail". (I know , last sentence belongs on ASAR.)




From tim at maths.tcd.ie  Tue Oct 24 16:59:02 2000
From: tim at maths.tcd.ie (tim at maths.tcd.ie)
Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 15:59:02 +0100 (BST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Two questions on mailman (2.0beta6)
Message-ID: <200010241559.aa22982@boole.maths.tcd.ie>

(1) All my list archives are said to be empty.
This seems to be because mailman does not write
a correct index.html in the appropriate directory.

(2) I am asked for approval of postings
even though I have configured everyone to be able to post.

(3) [Sorry, can't count!] The admin postings to me
do not appear to have a date set.
(On my mailer they are all said to have date "Jan 1".)

Any suggestions or advice gratefully received.





From stevefx at us.ibm.com  Tue Oct 24 19:39:23 2000
From: stevefx at us.ibm.com (Steve Fox)
Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 12:39:23 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] 2.0rc1 notes
Message-ID: <39F5C94B.BFC69A86@us.ibm.com>

Just installed 2.0rc1 and had a couple small problems with it.

1. When a new list is created the mail which gets sent out to the list
administration appears to be missing a slash in the URL after
hostname/mailman as it says hostname/mailmanadmin/listname and
hostname/mailmanlistinfo/listname

2. On the general options of the admin page the parameters which have
"yes" and "no" for options do not have them consistently ordered. Most
have "No" then "Yes" but I found one that doesn't (the "Send mail to
poster when their posting is held for approval?" option). No biggie,
just thought it might clean up the interface a little.

Thanks much everyone!

P.S. Please cc me as I'm not subscribed to the list. Thanks.

-- 
Steve Fox
IBM Linux Technology Center
http://oss.software.ibm.com/developerworks/opensource/linux/
http://stevefx.rchland.ibm.com (IBM intranet)
http://k-lug.com (Rochester Linux Users Group)



From pjcd at maties.sun.ac.za  Tue Oct 24 19:55:06 2000
From: pjcd at maties.sun.ac.za (Dovey J, Mr)
Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 19:55:06 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] 2.0rc1 notes
Message-ID: <2827D92BF3C4D311A3DA00805FB78523E53061@exchange01.sun.ac.za>

Hi,

I did the install of 2.0rc1 over my Beta 5 version and it went as smooth as
silk. I am running on RH 6.2 and my archiving etc is all standard (pipermail
etc). 

What I find though is that the "ACK" messages are giving me wiered
subjects.. but when the message gets to the list the subject is fine.. 

Anyone else experience this ?

John

---
John Dovey
Assistant Director (IT)
Library Services
University of Stellenbosch
Ph: +27-21-8084100 Fax: +27-21-8084336
http://www.lib.sun.ac.za/dovey/



-----Original Message-----
From: Steve Fox [mailto:stevefx at us.ibm.com]
Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2000 7:39 PM
To: mailman-users at python.org
Subject: [Mailman-Users] 2.0rc1 notes


Just installed 2.0rc1 and had a couple small problems with it.

1. When a new list is created the mail which gets sent out to the list
administration appears to be missing a slash in the URL after
hostname/mailman as it says hostname/mailmanadmin/listname and
hostname/mailmanlistinfo/listname

2. On the general options of the admin page the parameters which have
"yes" and "no" for options do not have them consistently ordered. Most
have "No" then "Yes" but I found one that doesn't (the "Send mail to
poster when their posting is held for approval?" option). No biggie,
just thought it might clean up the interface a little.

Thanks much everyone!

P.S. Please cc me as I'm not subscribed to the list. Thanks.

-- 
Steve Fox
IBM Linux Technology Center
http://oss.software.ibm.com/developerworks/opensource/linux/
http://stevefx.rchland.ibm.com (IBM intranet)
http://k-lug.com (Rochester Linux Users Group)

------------------------------------------------------
Mailman-Users maillist  -  Mailman-Users at python.org
http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users



From Dan.Mick at west.sun.com  Tue Oct 24 21:59:08 2000
From: Dan.Mick at west.sun.com (Dan Mick)
Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 12:59:08 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] I forgot my admin password
References: <1001024134355.ZM9956@ssadler.phy.bnl.gov>
Message-ID: <39F5EA0C.9ECF7F9A@west.sun.com>

Use the site password to log in, and then change the admin password.
If you don't remember the site password, bin/mmsitepass will set it.

Stephen Adler wrote:
> 
> Help,
> 
> I manage a mailing list using the mail man software I got from www.list.org.
> The problem is that I've forgotten my admin password. Is there anyway
> to get it without having to rebuild the mail list I'm admining?
> 
> Thanks. Steve.



From tpot at linuxcare.com.au  Wed Oct 25 02:01:30 2000
From: tpot at linuxcare.com.au (Tim Potter)
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 11:01:30 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] repeating footers
In-Reply-To: <230C3F2104A8D211A6E500A0C9EC76D023948B@AGOS2>
References: <230C3F2104A8D211A6E500A0C9EC76D023948B@AGOS2>
Message-ID: <14838.8922.150878.442236@gargle.gargle.HOWL>

Brian Easterwood writes:

> Is there any way to suppress footers that repeat when a thread gets long?

Tell your users to trim quoted material from their message when
replying to mailing list posts.

Actually mailman could use something that bounced back posts if
they contained too much quoted material.  It would make my life a
lot happier.


Regards,

Tim.

> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users maillist  -  Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users




From jeff at crossvalley.com  Wed Oct 25 05:29:48 2000
From: jeff at crossvalley.com (Jeff Maxwell)
Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 23:29:48 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] config.db ownership ?
Message-ID: <p04330101b61bf7499873@[10.10.10.2]>

When I use the web pages to view or change the config.db of a test 
list I made, the ownership changes from mailman to nobody. If I use 
the command line it seems to work fine.

my system is slackware 7.1, Python 2.0, Mailman 2.0rc1

I compiled Mailman ./configure --perfix=/usr/local/mailman 
--with-mail-gid=2 --with-cgi-gid=98

My system is running sendmail and it is at gid=2, my apache is 
running at gid=98

With this setup every time I use the web page I can see the ownership 
of the config.dbs change to nobody, I'm assuming that is because that 
is the use for apache. After that I get an error saying that 
[Errno13] Permission denied '/usr/local/mailman.lists/test/config.db' 
this make sense because the file config.db is no longer owned by 
mailman.

The only way I was able to get mailman running was to reinstall it 
with the --with-username=nobody tag in the ./configure
and to change the ownership of all files to nobody.mailman

Is'nt the tag --with-cgi-gid= supposed to make it possible to have 
differnt users for the webserver and mailman?



-- 
Jeff Maxwell
jeff at crossvalley.com



From jasonr at aristotle.bomis.com  Wed Oct 25 22:33:08 2000
From: jasonr at aristotle.bomis.com (Jason Richey)
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 15:33:08 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Posts by "Posters" not archived
Message-ID: <20001025153308.C23290@aristotle.bomis.com>

Is this the regular (desired) behaviour?

When someone who is listed as a "Poster" posts to a list, it is not
archived. 

I am running 2.0beta2.  I apologize if this has already been
addressed.


-- 
"Jason C. Richey" <jasonr at aristotle.bomis.com>




From marouni at earlham.edu  Thu Oct 26 00:41:19 2000
From: marouni at earlham.edu (Nick Marouf)
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 17:41:19 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] udmsearch question
Message-ID: <39F7618F.D105DCDC@earlham.edu>

Hi all,
	I am  posting this to this mailing list because many of you might be
already using udmsearch and I am hoping on getting some help.

the setup I have is as follows,
	in udm search config I set it to index www.earlham.edu/archive
and that does the public archives just fine. 

	so for private mailing lists I set it to index
www.earlham.edu/mailman/private
and that won't work because it asks for a listname. If I put a list
name, (time comsuming for many lists) I am stuck with username and
passwd. there is a way in udmsearch to authenticate using AuthBasic but
that is not working with mailman. 

I though that I could do an apache ScriptAlias so that I can get to the
private index list  with something like
www.earlham.edu/privatearchives/  this would work to index pages in
udmsearch. But I don't want those archives public, so I put a htaccess
passwd on it. and I can use the udmsearch capabilites to authenticate
with htaccess.

so now udm search lists the urls it found as 

http://www.earlham.edu/privatearchive/admstaff/October2000/msg00007.html

I click on it, is asks for the htaccess passwd. And that won't work for
people.


Is there a way to make www.earlham.edu/mailman/private/  list all the
lists?
or if I am taking a very bad approach to this. Please let me know.

Thanks a lot for any help

Nick








-- 
Nicholas Marouf || Earlham College || Assistant System Administrator.
http://www.ramallaonline.com



From tim at maths.tcd.ie  Thu Oct 26 00:37:39 2000
From: tim at maths.tcd.ie (tim at maths.tcd.ie)
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 23:37:39 +0100 (BST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can I alter list configs "by hand"?
Message-ID: <200010252337.aa87158@boole.maths.tcd.ie>

Is it possible eg for the list-owner to accept postings
wihtout going through a browser?

I own a large number of lists,
and although I have set open posting
I am still asked to verify that I accept postings.
Basically I would like to be able to write a short Perl script
which would say "Yes" to them all.

There are other places too where a text interface
might be an advantage.





From tim at maths.tcd.ie  Thu Oct 26 00:42:24 2000
From: tim at maths.tcd.ie (tim at maths.tcd.ie)
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 23:42:24 +0100 (BST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman bugs
Message-ID: <200010252342.aa87228@boole.maths.tcd.ie>

I am running mailman-2.0beta6 and have noticed the following bugs.
Are they likely to be corrected in v2.0, 
supposedly coming out this week?

(1) Although I have set (in fact it was the default setting) open posting,
I am still asked to confirm all postings by non list members.

(2) The archives are all reported (falsely) to be empty,
presumably because index.html is not updated.

(3) The date on admin emails to me (as list-owner)
is not properly set.






From Dan.Mick at West.Sun.COM  Thu Oct 26 01:07:35 2000
From: Dan.Mick at West.Sun.COM (Dan Mick)
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 16:07:35 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can I alter list configs "by hand"?
Message-ID: <200010252306.QAA24750@utopia.west.sun.com>

> Is it possible eg for the list-owner to accept postings
> wihtout going through a browser?

Not to my knowledge, but:
 
> I own a large number of lists,
> and although I have set open posting
> I am still asked to verify that I accept postings.

this makes no sense.  If the list is "open", no approval is necessary
for posting.  Perhaps you've got something configured slightly wrongly;
check that stuff again.

> Basically I would like to be able to write a short Perl script
> which would say "Yes" to them all.
> 
> There are other places too where a text interface
> might be an advantage.

It's been brought up before.




From gdinwiddie at min.net  Thu Oct 26 03:28:39 2000
From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie)
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 21:28:39 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] weird problems; a cry for help
Message-ID: <200010260128.VAA21240@min.net>

I'm a mailman newbie and hardly know where to begin.  I've got a
couple of lists running at www.alberg30.org in a virtual hosting
environment where mailman is shared by all the domains hosted on
the machine.  Everything was hunky-dory until...

Well, first the ISP had some sort of crash.  Then they moved
from RedHat 6.0 to 7.0.  Somewhere along the line (maybe t
the same time) they installed a newer version (or versions)
of mailman.  I know that it was beta 6 but is now 2.0rc1.

First, I had problems with the "welcome" message being sent
with the "Reply-to" header pointing to the list, instead of
the admin address.  Then all mail stopped.  They got one
list working again, but the other, the most important one,
is really bollixed.

logs/error is filling up with:
Oct 25 18:04:00 2000 (32336) Delivery exception: __int__
Oct 25 18:04:00 2000 (32336) Traceback (innermost last):
  File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/HandlerAPI.py", line 82, in do_pipeline
    func(mlist, msg, msgdata)
  File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/ToDigest.py", line 121, in process
    inject_digest(mlist, digestfile, topicsfile)
  File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/ToDigest.py", line 170, in inject_digest
    msg = digest.asMIME()
  File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/ToDigest.py", line 242, in asMIME
    return self.Present(mime=1)
  File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/ToDigest.py", line 279, in Present
    lines.append(self.__mlist.digest_header % self.TemplateRefs())
AttributeError: __int__

logs/digest is filling up with stuff like:
Oct 25 18:09:00 2000 (20560) Public-list v 16 - 2035 msgs, 22 recips (4 mime, 18 text, 0 disabled)
Oct 25 18:09:00 2000 (20560) Public-list v 16 - 2036 msgs, 22 recips (4 mime, 18 text, 0 disabled)
Oct 25 18:09:01 2000 (20560) Public-list v 16 - 2037 msgs, 22 recips (4 mime, 18 text, 0 disabled)
Oct 25 18:10:01 2000 (1315) Public-list v 16 - 2038 msgs, 22 recips (4 mime, 18 text, 0 disabled)
Oct 25 18:10:01 2000 (1315) Public-list v 16 - 2039 msgs, 22 recips (4 mime, 18 text, 0 disabled)
Oct 25 18:10:01 2000 (1315) Public-list v 16 - 2040 msgs, 22 recips (4 mime, 18 text, 0 disabled)
Oct 25 18:10:01 2000 (1315) Public-list v 16 - 2041 msgs, 22 recips (4 mime, 18 text, 0 disabled)

logs/qrunner has stuff like:
Oct 25 16:17:02 2000 (30248) Could not acquire qrunner lock
Oct 25 16:18:02 2000 (7653) Could not acquire qrunner lock
Oct 25 16:19:01 2000 (14921) Could not acquire qrunner lock
Oct 25 16:20:01 2000 (24286) Could not acquire qrunner lock
Oct 25 16:21:01 2000 (19783) Could not acquire qrunner lock
  but I'm not sure it's related to the stuff in logs/digest.

lists/public-list/next-digest is filling up with many copies of a few messages.  Likewise,
lists/public-list/next-digest-topics is filling up with the same 4 topics in rotation.

Any ideas on what the problem might be?  Better yet, any ideas on the fix?

Please copy me on the reply.

Thanks,
  George Dinwiddie


-- 
 ----------------------------------------------------------------------
  George Dinwiddie                                  gdinwiddie at min.net
  The gods do not deduct from man's allotted span those hours spent in
  sailing.                         NEW URL => http://www.Alberg30.org/
 ----------------------------------------------------------------------




From carl at sweetlands.com  Thu Oct 26 04:20:30 2000
From: carl at sweetlands.com (Carl Sweetland)
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 19:20:30 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] the list admin overview page
Message-ID: <000001c03ef3$4fbaef80$1e01a8c0@uswest.net>

I just updated my server from 1.1 to 2 Orc.1 and everything went fine...I
think.

However if I click on <the list admin overview page> the link points to
/admin/ instead of /mailman/admin/.  If I type it in it works.  Where is the
main page generated from so I can edit this?


Thanks

Carl Sweetland




From Dan.Mick at West.Sun.COM  Thu Oct 26 04:43:25 2000
From: Dan.Mick at West.Sun.COM (Dan Mick)
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 19:43:25 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] the list admin overview page
Message-ID: <200010260242.TAA00514@utopia.west.sun.com>

\
> I just updated my server from 1.1 to 2 Orc.1 and everything went fine...I
> think.
> 
> However if I click on <the list admin overview page> the link points to
> /admin/ instead of /mailman/admin/.  If I type it in it works.  Where is the
> main page generated from so I can edit this?

1) what is "the main page"?  mailman/listinfo, you mean?  In my page
that link points to an absolute path to DEFAULT_URL/admin.  That gets
to a page titled "<hostname> mailing lists - Admin Links".

In any event, if you're talking about listinfo, it's generated
by the listinfo script, which ends up calling listinfo.py 
in Mailman/Cgi.

Note that DEFAULT_URL must have a trailing / to make that work right.
Check that first.

2) try lookng at the source of the generated page (listinfo, if
that's what we're talking about) to make sure you know what the link
text really is.  It might be wrong, but the way it shows up in the
status line or in the destination URL isn't necessarily exactly
what's in the page.





From carl at sweetlands.com  Thu Oct 26 05:55:34 2000
From: carl at sweetlands.com (Carl Sweetland)
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 20:55:34 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] the list admin overview page
In-Reply-To: <200010260242.TAA00514@utopia.west.sun.com>
Message-ID: <000001c03f00$97e08ec0$3201a8c0@sweetlands.com>

Thanks... I was talking about mailman/listinfo.  I found the error.
Defaults.py has the trailing /, but it is also defined in mm_cfg.py...that
reference to DEFAULT_URL was missing the /.

Again,  Thanks for pointing me in the right direction.

Carl

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dan Mick [mailto:Dan.Mick at West.Sun.COM]
> Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2000 7:43 PM
> To: mailman-users at python.org; carl at sweetlands.com
> Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] the list admin overview page
>
>
> \
> > I just updated my server from 1.1 to 2 Orc.1 and everything
> went fine...I
> > think.
> >
> > However if I click on <the list admin overview page> the link points to
> > /admin/ instead of /mailman/admin/.  If I type it in it works.
> Where is the
> > main page generated from so I can edit this?
>
> 1) what is "the main page"?  mailman/listinfo, you mean?  In my page
> that link points to an absolute path to DEFAULT_URL/admin.  That gets
> to a page titled "<hostname> mailing lists - Admin Links".
>
> In any event, if you're talking about listinfo, it's generated
> by the listinfo script, which ends up calling listinfo.py
> in Mailman/Cgi.
>
> Note that DEFAULT_URL must have a trailing / to make that work right.
> Check that first.
>
> 2) try lookng at the source of the generated page (listinfo, if
> that's what we're talking about) to make sure you know what the link
> text really is.  It might be wrong, but the way it shows up in the
> status line or in the destination URL isn't necessarily exactly
> what's in the page.
>




From atropos at fates.org  Thu Oct 26 06:41:18 2000
From: atropos at fates.org (David B. O'Donnell)
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 00:41:18 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Something is fishy with RedHat 7 + Mailman 2.0rc1
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0010260002280.19457-100000@steed.fates.org>

I moved from RedHat 6.2 to RedHat 7.0 last night. Prior to the move, I
copied all the data from ~mailman to a separate disk. The RedHat 7 install
was a "fresh" one, so none of the old 6.2 stuff is lying around. I also
applied the errata patch and updated to the latest package list from their
update server.

I copied the ~mailman files into the new /home/ directory, then did a
straight install from the mailman 2.0rc1 archive. I made certain the smrsh
symlink is in place, ~mailman/bin/check_perms returns no problems, and that
all the list aliases are in place and working. I have triple-checked the
relevant lines in httpd.conf to make sure they work. 

Going to http://www.destinyinternet.com/listinfo shows that there are no
public lists on the server; however, two are supposed to be--one active list
and one test list.

Going to http://www.destinyinternet.com/listinfo/david-test brings me to the
proper list info page. This works for the other three lists I host (one is
public, two are private).

Going to http://www.destinyinternet.com/admin/david-test *presently* sends
me off into la-la land, where I time out before I get the page. Earlier
tonight, however, it showed up fine -- for david-test ONLY, with the other
three lists also sending me off into la-la land.

(I am tailing the error log for mailman, plus the httpd access and error
logs for www.destinyinternet.com, all the time. So far everything seems
normal)

When I *was* able to get into .../admin/david-test, I clicked on the
"pending administrative requests" link and got an error. This is what my
mailman error log shows:

admin(19363): [----- Mailman Version: 2.0rc1 -----]
admin(19363): [----- Traceback ------]
admin(19363): Traceback (innermost last):
admin(19363):   File "/home/mailman/scripts/driver", line 96, in run_main
admin(19363):     main()
admin(19363):   File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/admindb.py", line 95, in
main
admin(19363):     mlist.Save()
admin(19363):   File "/home/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 845, in Save
admin(19363):     self.SaveRequestsDb()
admin(19363):   File "/home/mailman/Mailman/ListAdmin.py", line 93, in
SaveRequestsDb
admin(19363):     self.__closedb()
admin(19363):   File "/home/mailman/Mailman/ListAdmin.py", line 80, in
__closedb
admin(19363):     fp = open(self.__filename, 'w')
admin(19363): IOError: [Errno 13] Permission
denied: '/home/mailman/lists/david-test/request.db'
admin(19363): [----- Python Information -----]
admin(19363): sys.version    = 1.5.2 (#1, Aug 25 2000, 09:33:37)  [GCC 2.96
20000731 (experimental)]
admin(19363): sys.executable = /usr/bin/python
admin(19363): sys.prefix     = /usr
admin(19363): sys.exec_prefix= /usr
admin(19363): sys.path       = /usr
admin(19363): sys.platform   = linux-i386
admin(19363): [----- Environment Variables -----]
admin(19363): 	DOCUMENT_ROOT: /web/domains/destinynewmedia.net
admin(19363): 	SERVER_ADDR: 209.8.223.164
admin(19363): 	QUERY_STRING: 
admin(19363): 	PATH_TRANSLATED: /web/domains/destinynewmedia.net/david-test
admin(19363): 	REMOTE_ADDR: 209.8.223.165
admin(19363): 	HTTP_UA_OS: MacOS
admin(19363): 	HTTP_ACCEPT_LANGUAGE: en
admin(19363): 	GATEWAY_INTERFACE: CGI/1.1
admin(19363): 	SERVER_NAME: www.destinynewmedia.net
admin(19363): 	HTTP_CONNECTION: Keep-Alive
admin(19363): 	HTTP_USER_AGENT: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE
5.0; Mac_PowerPC)
admin(19363): 	HTTP_ACCEPT: */*
admin(19363): 	REQUEST_URI: /mailman/admindb/david-test
admin(19363): 	HTTP_UA_CPU: PPC
admin(19363): 	HTTP_EXTENSION: Security/Remote-Passphrase
admin(19363): 	SCRIPT_FILENAME: /home/mailman/cgi-bin//admindb
admin(19363): 	PATH_INFO: /david-test
admin(19363): 	HTTP_HOST: www.destinynewmedia.net
admin(19363): 	REQUEST_METHOD: GET
admin(19363): 	SERVER_SIGNATURE: <ADDRESS>Apache/1.3.14 Server at <A
HREF="mailto:atropos at fates.org">www.destinynewmedia.net</A> Port
80</ADDRESS>

admin(19363): 	SCRIPT_NAME: /mailman/admindb
admin(19363): 	SERVER_ADMIN: atropos at fates.org
admin(19363): 	SERVER_SOFTWARE: Apache/1.3.14 (Unix)
admin(19363): 	PYTHONPATH: /home/mailman
admin(19363): 	HTTP_COOKIE: david-test:admin=280200000069c6abf739732800000063396533663730313833613332633638333366346337353561326162626461313563313061306536
admin(19363): 	SERVER_PROTOCOL: HTTP/1.1
admin(19363): 	REMOTE_PORT: 49365
admin(19363): 	HTTP_REFERER: http://www.destinynewmedia.net/mailman/admin/david-test

The listing for 'request.db' shows:

-rw-r--r--    1 mailman  mailman         2 Oct 25 20:58 request.db

This is the same for the other lists.

FWIW, I noticed while trying to discover why I was not getting posts to one
of my lists that I wasn't in the member list. When I tried to run the
add_member script, it just sits and spins and as far as I can tell
hangs. This is the traceback I get when I kill the process:

Traceback (innermost last):
  File "./add_members", line 221, in ?
    main()
  File "./add_members", line 170, in main
    ml = MailList.MailList(listname)
  File "/home/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 77, in __init__
    self.Lock()
  File "/home/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 1322, in Lock
    self.__lock.lock(timeout)
  File "/home/mailman/Mailman/LockFile.py", line 286, in lock
    self.__sleep()
  File "/home/mailman/Mailman/LockFile.py", line 424, in __sleep
    time.sleep(interval)
KeyboardInterrupt

Lastly, I'm noticing that it takes a LONG time for posts to actually make it
to lists. Like up to an hour for them to go from arriving at the wrapper
script to actually being posted.

I'm at a loss for what's going on. Anyone with ideas, please let me know,
I'm about ready to either go back to Mailman 1.2 or start looking for
another list manager.




From mbrennen at fni.com  Thu Oct 26 06:46:32 2000
From: mbrennen at fni.com (Michael Brennen)
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 23:46:32 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] 2.0rc1 / no explicit Reply-To: header
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0010252342590.26821-100000@henry.fni.com>

I've got one list that I run explicit Reply-To: headers on.  I just
upgraded from a lightly patched b6 to 2.0rc1, and the Reply-To:
header is still not being sent to the list.  Since this version is a
release candidate it seemed reporting.

   -- Michael




From bob at nleaudio.com  Thu Oct 26 06:48:31 2000
From: bob at nleaudio.com (Bob Puff@NLE)
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 00:48:31 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Newbie install woes
References: <200010252342.aa87228@boole.maths.tcd.ie>
Message-ID: <39F7B79F.22EFE815@nleaudio.com>

Hi Gang,

I'm new to Mailman, but not to mailing lists.  I'm running Linux Mandrake 7.1, and just downloaded the version 2.0rc1 program.  Using Python version 1.52.

Problem #1.  When I try sending a subscribe to the list, I get a bounce, with this error:

<test-request at nlenet.net>: Command died with status 2:
    "/home/mailman/mail/wrapper mailcmd test". Command output: Failure to exec
    script. WANTED gid 12, GOT gid 528.  (Reconfigure to take 528?)

My mailman user id is 88, and group ID is 528.  Group 12 is mail.  Did I screw this up, and should I have put in 12 instead of 528?

Problem #2. None of the web pages work.  I traced it down to getting a permissions error.  By making the error file in the logs dir world-writeable, I got this:

admin(17480): [----- Mailman Version: 2.0rc1 -----]
admin(17480): [----- Traceback ------]
admin(17480): Traceback (innermost last):
admin(17480):   File "/home/mailman/scripts/driver", line 96, in run_main
admin(17480):     main()
admin(17480):   File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/listinfo.py", line 42, in main
admin(17480):     mlist = MailList.MailList(listname, lock=0)
admin(17480):   File "/home/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 79, in __init__
admin(17480):     self.Load()
admin(17480):   File "/home/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 877, in Load
admin(17480):     dict, e = self.__load(dbfile)
admin(17480):   File "/home/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 854, in __load
admin(17480):     fp = open(dbfile)
admin(17480): IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied: '/home/mailman/lists/test/c
onfig.db'
admin(17480): [----- Python Information -----]
admin(17480): sys.version    = 1.5.2 (#1, May  9 2000, 15:05:56)  [GCC 2.95.3 19
991030 (prerelease)]
admin(17480): sys.executable = /usr/bin/python
admin(17480): sys.prefix     = /usr
admin(17480): sys.exec_prefix= /usr 
admin(17480): sys.path       = /usr
admin(17480): sys.platform   = linux-i386
admin(17480): [----- Environment Variables -----]
admin(17480):   DOCUMENT_ROOT: /home/nleinternet/http
admin(17480):   SERVER_ADDR: 64.65.206.26
admin(17480):   HTTP_ACCEPT_ENCODING: gzip
admin(17480):   SERVER_PORT: 80
admin(17480):   PATH_TRANSLATED: /home/nleinternet/http/test
admin(17480):   GATEWAY_INTERFACE: CGI/1.1
admin(17480):   HTTP_ACCEPT_LANGUAGE: en
admin(17480):   REMOTE_ADDR: 64.65.206.24
admin(17480):   SERVER_NAME: nleinternet.net
admin(17480):   HTTP_CONNECTION: Keep-Alive
admin(17480):   HTTP_USER_AGENT: Mozilla/4.08 [en] (Win95; I)
admin(17480):   HTTP_ACCEPT_CHARSET: iso-8859-1,*,utf-8
admin(17480):   HTTP_ACCEPT: image/gif, image/x-xbitmap, image/jpeg, image/pjpeg
, image/png, */*
admin(17480):   REQUEST_URI: /mailman/listinfo/test
admin(17480):   QUERY_STRING:
admin(17480):   SCRIPT_FILENAME: /home/mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo
admin(17480):   PATH_INFO: /test
admin(17480):   HTTP_HOST: nleinternet.net 
admin(17480):   REQUEST_METHOD: GET
admin(17480):   SERVER_SIGNATURE:
admin(17480):   SCRIPT_NAME: /mailman/listinfo
admin(17480):   SERVER_ADMIN: root at localhost
admin(17480):   SERVER_SOFTWARE: Apache-AdvancedExtranetServer/1.3.12  (NetRevol
ution/Linux-Mandrake) FrontPage/4.0.4.3 PHP/3.0.16 mod_perl/1.22
admin(17480):   PYTHONPATH: /home/mailman
admin(17480):   HTTP_PRAGMA: no-cache
admin(17480):   SERVER_PROTOCOL: HTTP/1.0
admin(17480):   REMOTE_PORT: 61730

I saw something before (that I can't find at the moment) that said it was using uid and gid of 99, which is "nobody" - that's what apache runs under.  It looks like all the mailman stuff is being access with a uid and group id of 99 instead of itself.  How can I fix this?

Bob



From mbrennen at fni.com  Thu Oct 26 06:50:42 2000
From: mbrennen at fni.com (Michael Brennen)
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 23:50:42 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] 2.0rc1 / no explicit Reply-To: header
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0010252342590.26821-100000@henry.fni.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0010252348130.26821-100000@henry.fni.com>

argh... bad taste to reply to my own post, but it just occurred to
me that I saw one other bug.  With the explicit header defined, I
tried to remove it by blanking the explicit Reply-To header field.  
However, when I submitted the changes, the redisplayed page still
had the old value.  It seems that once it gets in, it is stuck.

   -- Michael

On Wed, 25 Oct 2000, Michael Brennen wrote:

> I've got one list that I run explicit Reply-To: headers on.  I
> just upgraded from a lightly patched b6 to 2.0rc1, and the
> Reply-To: header is still not being sent to the list.  Since
> this version is a release candidate it seemed reporting.




From bob at nleaudio.com  Thu Oct 26 07:03:16 2000
From: bob at nleaudio.com (Bob Puff@NLE)
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 01:03:16 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: Newbie install woes
References: <200010252342.aa87228@boole.maths.tcd.ie> <39F7B79F.22EFE815@nleaudio.com>
Message-ID: <39F7BB14.9F96F359@nleaudio.com>

Ok, I got problem #2 figured out - I did a make clean, configure, then make install, and the web interface works nicely.

I tried subscribing myself with the web interface, and it sent me the confirmation message, but once I replied to it, I got a bounce with the same:

> <test-request at nlenet.net>: Command died with status 2:
>     "/home/mailman/mail/wrapper mailcmd test". Command output: Failure to exec
>     script. WANTED gid 12, GOT gid 528.  (Reconfigure to take 528?)

Note that I did the configure as:
  ./configure --with-mail-gid=12   

Help!

Bob



From chuqui at plaidworks.com  Thu Oct 26 07:07:19 2000
From: chuqui at plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach)
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 22:07:19 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: Newbie install woes
In-Reply-To: <39F7BB14.9F96F359@nleaudio.com>
References: <200010252342.aa87228@boole.maths.tcd.ie>
 <39F7B79F.22EFE815@nleaudio.com> <39F7BB14.9F96F359@nleaudio.com>
Message-ID: <p04330109b61d6c53ef9f@[209.239.169.197]>

At 1:03 AM -0400 10/26/00, Bob Puff at NLE wrote:

>  > <test-request at nlenet.net>: Command died with status 2:
>>      "/home/mailman/mail/wrapper mailcmd test". Command output: 
>>Failure to exec
>>      script. WANTED gid 12, GOT gid 528.  (Reconfigure to take 528?)
>
>Note that I did the configure as:
>   ./configure --with-mail-gid=12  
>

the error is pretty self-explanatory. You're telling mailman to 
expect to be executed by user 12, but user 528 is actually doing the 
execution. Since this is a security thing, it therefore won't run, 
and it warns you.

-- 
Chuq Von Rospach - Plaidworks Consulting (mailto:chuqui at plaidworks.com)
Apple Mail List Gnome (mailto:chuq at apple.com)

Be just, and fear not.



From bob at nleaudio.com  Thu Oct 26 07:21:15 2000
From: bob at nleaudio.com (Bob Puff@NLE)
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 01:21:15 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: Newbie install woes
References: <200010252342.aa87228@boole.maths.tcd.ie>
	 <39F7B79F.22EFE815@nleaudio.com> <39F7BB14.9F96F359@nleaudio.com> <p04330109b61d6c53ef9f@[209.239.169.197]>
Message-ID: <39F7BF4B.D613395B@nleaudio.com>

Thanks for the quick replies - boy, sometimes I feel really stupid!  Got it working!

One thing I noticed - when I send a message out, it takes maybe 5-10 seconds before it comes back to me.  My server isn't loaded at all.  Is this typical?  My majordomo lists come back immediately.

Bob



From chuqui at plaidworks.com  Thu Oct 26 07:32:53 2000
From: chuqui at plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach)
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 22:32:53 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: Newbie install woes
In-Reply-To: <39F7BF4B.D613395B@nleaudio.com>
References: <200010252342.aa87228@boole.maths.tcd.ie>	
 <39F7B79F.22EFE815@nleaudio.com> <39F7BB14.9F96F359@nleaudio.com>
 <p04330109b61d6c53ef9f@[209.239.169.197]>
 <39F7BF4B.D613395B@nleaudio.com>
Message-ID: <p0433010bb61d7213495d@[209.239.169.197]>

At 1:21 AM -0400 10/26/00, Bob Puff at NLE wrote:

>One thing I noticed - when I send a message out, it takes maybe 5-10 
>seconds before it comes back to me.  My server isn't loaded at all. 
>Is this typical?  My majordomo lists come back immediately.

Not unusual -- mailman uses a queue and a queue runner that runs once 
a minute out of cron. So your message will sit until the queue runner 
processes it.

Majordomo runs things directly out of the alias file, so it's faster 
-- but if 100 messages hit your server at once, majordomo will drive 
the server to its knees, while mailman will sequentially process 
them. So majordomo will be faster in the trivially easy cases, and 
mailman will scale and keep your system from barfing under heavy load 
conditions...

-- 
Chuq Von Rospach - Plaidworks Consulting (mailto:chuqui at plaidworks.com)
Apple Mail List Gnome (mailto:chuq at apple.com)

Be just, and fear not.



From atropos at fates.org  Thu Oct 26 07:49:32 2000
From: atropos at fates.org (David B. O'Donnell)
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 01:49:32 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Something is fishy with RedHat 7 + Mailman
 2.0rc1
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0010260002280.19457-100000@steed.fates.org>
Message-ID: <631117.3181513772@tardis.fates.org>

On Thursday 26 October 2000 00.41 -0400 "David B. O'Donnell" 
<atropos at fates.org> wrote:

> I'm at a loss for what's going on. Anyone with ideas, please let me know,
> I'm about ready to either go back to Mailman 1.2 or start looking for
> another list manager.

Curiouser and curiouser: I created a new list. I can access *its* admin 
page just fine, while I continue to get timeouts on the other lists. I also 
noticed some file permission and ownership differences that check_perms 
doesn't catch (not sure if it *should*, really).

I also noticed that one of the lists has what appears to be a corrupt 
archive--several posts are simply not there (though they appear in the 
listing) and some that *are* there do not match subject-->posting.

-- 
David B. O'Donnell - atropos at fates.org - www.fates.org
Help rescue cats in need: Fancy Cats Rescue Team, www.fancycats.org




From pol at wallace.openlabs.it  Thu Oct 26 11:24:40 2000
From: pol at wallace.openlabs.it (Paolo M. Pumilia)
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 11:24:40 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] wrong admin link
Message-ID: <20001026112440.A31667@wallace.openlabs.it>

Hi all, 
I have just installed mailman 2.0 beta5 on a debian/linux platform
Change in apache configuration has been made:
% vi /etc/apache/srm.conf
> ScriptAlias /mailman/ /usr/lib/mailman/cgi-bin/

I noticed that the link in page at http://www.openlabs.it/mailman/listinfo
points to http://www.openlabs.it/admin rather than to
http://www.openlabs.it/mailman/admin

How can that be fixed?

thank you

Pol
-- 
OpenLabs



From supermico at tiscalinet.it  Thu Oct 26 11:24:15 2000
From: supermico at tiscalinet.it (Mico)
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 11:24:15 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can I alter list configs "by hand"?
In-Reply-To: <200010252337.aa87158@boole.maths.tcd.ie>
Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.0.20001026112230.00ab5598@pop.tiscalinet.it>


Hi, I'm a newbie and I'd like to understand how to set the mailman server 
so that any subscriber can reply to the mailing list JUST doing a simple 
reply and NOT a reply-to-all operation !

Thanx a lot !


Gnoshi & Arabashi
    /\/\  o
   /    \ | < 0

ICQ: 4512776
FAX: +39.02.700.404.932
MOBILE: 0338.999.05.10




From boris at openair.com  Thu Oct 26 13:29:06 2000
From: boris at openair.com (Boris Boruchovich)
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 07:29:06 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <14837.31.307339.963344@anthem.concentric.net>
Message-ID: <NBBBKLCLLKJDKHFDFHCFMECLIAAA.boris@openair.com>

Hi,

I have setup Mailman for internal use, as well as, for our OpenAir.com
service.  Mailman is great.  I had to make couple of changes in order for it
to work the way I needed.  Here is what I did:

1. I changed unsubscribe not to require a password if the body only
contained the keyword "unsubscribe".  Then only the sender is unsubscribed.
This way it is easier for list members to unsubscribe.  All our members are
subscribed by our service and have no access to their passwords.

2. I changed subscribe to accept an Admin password when subscribing someone
other than self.  I have made the list open so that it does not require
either Admin approval nor member confirmation.  But, I did not want anyone
subscribing someone else without any authority.


Questions:

1. Does anyone see any major issues with what I did?  Could I have done this
another way?
2. How do I set the "not me too" option to be set by default for each new
member?

Thanks,

Boris




From supermico at tiscalinet.it  Thu Oct 26 13:33:25 2000
From: supermico at tiscalinet.it (Mico)
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 13:33:25 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Reply
In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.0.20001026112230.00ab5598@pop.tiscalinet.it>
References: <200010252337.aa87158@boole.maths.tcd.ie>
Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.0.20001026133305.04025348@pop.tiscalinet.it>

Hi, I'm a newbie and I'd like to understand how to set the mailman server 
so that any subscriber can reply to the mailing list JUST doing a simple 
reply and NOT a reply-to-all operation !
Thanx a lot !



Gnoshi & Arabashi
    /\/\  o
   /    \ | < 0

ICQ: 4512776
FAX: +39.02.700.404.932
MOBILE: 0338.999.05.10




From marouf at earlham.edu  Thu Oct 26 15:04:07 2000
From: marouf at earlham.edu (Nick Marouf)
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 08:04:07 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] searching archives
References: <39CB1504@qip2.ncat.edu> <11463.969773921@kanga.nu>
Message-ID: <39F82BC7.C5E33EE4@earlham.edu>

J C,
	I took your advice and got UdmSearch (mnoGoSearch) and am able to index
the public archives by putting /mailman/archive in indexer.conf
howerver for the private lists. is there a way that I can index them
without making them public.

I tried using
http://emailadress:sitepasswd at www.test.com/mailman/private/listname
in indexer, but that does not work.

if that is not possible I would like to know, or if there is a way, any
help would be gratealy appreciated.

Thanks,

Nick



J C Lawrence wrote:
> 
> On Sat, 23 Sep 2000 22:25:38 -0400
> Aaron Titus <titus at ncat.edu> wrote:
> 
> > I'd like to make public mailman archives searchable.  What is the
> > best way to do this?
> 
> I use UdmSearch as an esternal archiver:
> 
>   http://www.kanga.nu/search/
> 
> Another common choice HT:Dig, or if your loads are light enough that
> you can afford to do realtime searches (ir no pre-genned indexes)
> things like Swish.  There have been previous discussions (and
> patches I think) to support having Pipermail emben the appropriate
> HTML for your search interface, but I've not looked into that as I use
> MHonArc as an external archiver:
> 
>   http://www.kanga.nu/archives/
> 
> Archive configs:
> 
>   ftp://ftp.kanga.nu/pub/Kanga.Nu/WebArchives/
> 
> And an older simpler form:
> 
>   ftp://ftp.kanga.nu/pub/Kanga.Nu/WebArchives.old/
> 
> --
> J C Lawrence                                 Home: claw at kanga.nu
> ---------(*)                               Other: coder at kanga.nu
> http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/        Keys etc: finger claw at kanga.nu
> --=| A man is as sane as he is dangerous to his environment |=--
>



From rodrigo at linuxave.net  Thu Oct 26 15:53:26 2000
From: rodrigo at linuxave.net (Rodrigo Moya)
Date: 26 Oct 2000 12:53:26 -0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] problems installing
Message-ID: <200010261352.GAA09747@gears.linuxave.net>

Hi all!

I've installed mailman on a RH 6.2 machine. The POP3 server in that
machine works perfectly, the messages I send to the mailing lists are
logged in the logs/post file. But, no mail goes to the list members.

I've been checking my /etc/aliases file, among other things, and
everything seems to be in its place, so I don't know where to look
anymore.

Any help, please!!

thanks very much




From esper at sherohman.org  Thu Oct 26 16:41:24 2000
From: esper at sherohman.org (Dave Sherohman)
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 09:41:24 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Reply
In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.0.20001026133305.04025348@pop.tiscalinet.it>; from supermico@tiscalinet.it on Thu, Oct 26, 2000 at 01:33:25PM +0200
References: <200010252337.aa87158@boole.maths.tcd.ie> <5.0.0.25.0.20001026112230.00ab5598@pop.tiscalinet.it> <5.0.0.25.0.20001026133305.04025348@pop.tiscalinet.it>
Message-ID: <20001026094124.B14274@sherohman.org>

On Thu, Oct 26, 2000 at 01:33:25PM +0200, Mico wrote:
> Hi, I'm a newbie and I'd like to understand how to set the mailman server 
> so that any subscriber can reply to the mailing list JUST doing a simple 
> reply and NOT a reply-to-all operation !

You _can_ do it by going to the General Options page and changing the "Where
are replies to list messages directed? Poster is strongly recommended for
most mailing lists." setting to "This list".

You _should_, however, almost certainly leave it as it is.  The settings
"Details" link has a little to say about this, but the major document that
I'm aware of on the topic is "Reply-To Considered Harmful", which can be
found at http://www.unicom.com/pw/reply-to-harmful.html

-- 
"Two words: Windows survives." - Craig Mundie, Microsoft senior strategist
"So does syphillis. Good thing we have penicillin." - Matthew Alton
Geek Code 3.1:  GCS d- s+: a- C++ UL++$ P+>+++ L+++>++++ E- W--(++) N+ o+
!K w---$ O M- V? PS+ PE Y+ PGP t 5++ X+ R++ tv b+ DI++++ D G e* h+ r++ y+



From virginia at texterity.com  Thu Oct 26 16:48:51 2000
From: virginia at texterity.com (Virginia Beauregard)
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 10:48:51 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Newbie install woes
In-Reply-To: <39F7B79F.22EFE815@nleaudio.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0010261045530.9837-100000@idefix.texterity.com>

On Thu, 26 Oct 2000, Bob Puff at NLE wrote:

> <test-request at nlenet.net>: Command died with status 2:
>     "/home/mailman/mail/wrapper mailcmd test". Command output: Failure to exec
>     script. WANTED gid 12, GOT gid 528.  (Reconfigure to take 528?)

> admin(17480): IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied: '/home/mailman/lists/test/c
> onfig.db'

Both of these problems suggest that you didn't run ./configure with the
correct --with-cgi-gid or --with-mail-gid options.  Read the hints in the
INSTALL file of the Mailman distribution for information on how to get
these values right.

--
Virginia J. Beauregard                            virginia at texterity.com
UNIX Systems and Network Administrator                   Texterity, Inc.





From atropos at fates.org  Thu Oct 26 16:59:17 2000
From: atropos at fates.org (David B. O'Donnell)
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 10:59:17 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Crash running "arch" on an apparently broken list archive
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0010261054170.26409-100000@steed.fates.org>

(At least I now seem to be able to get to the admin pages...)

I noticed during my investigations into what was wrong with the lists I was
transferring into Mailman 2.0rc1 after installing RH 7.0 that one of the
lists' archives was broken.

I ran ~mailman/bin/arch on the list. After about an hour waiting I went to
bed, and this morning came back to find the following:

(so many repeats of the first two lines it has exceeded the xterm scrollback
buffer)

figuring article archives
2000-September
figuring article archives
2000-September
figuring article archives
2000-September
figuring article archives
2000-October
Traceback (innermost last):
  File "./arch", line 129, in ?
    main()
  File "./arch", line 118, in main
    archiver.processUnixMailbox(fp, Article)
  File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/pipermail.py", line 523, in
processUnixMailbox
    self.add_article(a)
  File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/HyperArch.py", line 926, in
add_article
    self.__super_add_article(article)
  File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/pipermail.py", line 562, in
add_article
    article.parentID = parentID = self.get_parent_info(arch, article)
  File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/pipermail.py", line 594, in
get_parent_info
    article.subject) 
  File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/HyperDatabase.py", line 303, in
getOldestArticle
    self.__openIndices(archive)
  File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/HyperDatabase.py", line 245, in
__openIndices
    t = DumbBTree(os.path.join(arcdir, archive + '-' + i)) 
  File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/HyperDatabase.py", line 68, in
__init__
    self.load()
  File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/HyperDatabase.py", line 173, in load
    self.dict = marshal.load(fp)
ValueError: bad marshal data

The archives are still broken for the latest month (2000-October).

Any suggestions, anyone?

--David O'Donnell
  atropos at fates.org




From tino at anywhereyougo.com  Thu Oct 26 17:12:24 2000
From: tino at anywhereyougo.com (Tino Dai)
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 10:12:24 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Unexpected Mailman error
Message-ID: <NEBBJAGAIMEONBGGPEMDOEIOCCAA.tino@anywhereyougo.com>

Hi There!

	I got this error from two of my mailing lists. I don't have any idea about
how mailman works. Could somebody give me a clue on what is going on?

An unexpected Mailman error has occurred in
MailCommandHandler.ParseMailCommands().  Here is the traceback:

Traceback (innermost last):
  File "/home/mailman/Mailman/MailCommandHandler.py", line 214, in
ParseMailCommands
    self.__dispatch[cmd](args, line, msg)
  File "/home/mailman/Mailman/MailCommandHandler.py", line 552, in
ProcessSubscribeCmd
    self.AddMember(subscribe_address, password, digest, remote)
  File "/home/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 893, in AddMember
    cookie = Pending().new(name, password, digest)
  File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Pending.py", line 74, in new
    self.__save(db)
  File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Pending.py", line 110, in __save
    self.__cull_db(db)
  File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Pending.py", line 133, in __cull_db
    if v[-1] < too_old:
TypeError: unsubscriptable object

-Thanks
Tino




From Nigel.Metheringham at VData.co.uk  Thu Oct 26 17:21:42 2000
From: Nigel.Metheringham at VData.co.uk (Nigel Metheringham)
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 16:21:42 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: Newbie install woes 
In-Reply-To: Message from "Bob Puff@NLE" <bob@nleaudio.com> 
   of "Thu, 26 Oct 2000 01:03:16 EDT." <39F7BB14.9F96F359@nleaudio.com> 
Message-ID: <E13ooqc-0007Rk-00@rioja.localnet>

> <test-request at nlenet.net>: Command died with status 2:
>     "/home/mailman/mail/wrapper mailcmd test". Command output: Failure to exec
>     script. WANTED gid 12, GOT gid 528.  (Reconfigure to take 528?)

How about we add the answer to this in some detail to the FAQ and add 
something like:-

  For further information see http://www.list.org/faq.html#GID

to that error message to take people directly to the appropriate 
information.

	Nigel.
-- 
[ - Opinions expressed are personal and may not be shared by VData - ]
[ Nigel Metheringham                  Nigel.Metheringham at VData.co.uk ]
[ Phone: +44 1423 850000                         Fax +44 1423 858866 ]





From tino at anywhereyougo.com  Thu Oct 26 17:58:21 2000
From: tino at anywhereyougo.com (Tino Dai)
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 10:58:21 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Unexpected mailman error (part 2)
Message-ID: <NEBBJAGAIMEONBGGPEMDKEJCCCAA.tino@anywhereyougo.com>

Hi! 

	Some more information about my environment is

	mailman-1.1
	linux 2.2.16-3smp
	apache_1.3.12

	I hope this helps you to help me to figure out what is wrong. 

Thanks so much in advance
-Tino




From supermico at tiscalinet.it  Thu Oct 26 17:58:56 2000
From: supermico at tiscalinet.it (Mico)
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 17:58:56 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Reply
In-Reply-To: <20001026094124.B14274@sherohman.org>
References: <5.0.0.25.0.20001026133305.04025348@pop.tiscalinet.it>
 <200010252337.aa87158@boole.maths.tcd.ie>
 <5.0.0.25.0.20001026112230.00ab5598@pop.tiscalinet.it>
 <5.0.0.25.0.20001026133305.04025348@pop.tiscalinet.it>
Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.0.20001026175841.038d5e48@pop.tiscalinet.it>

At 09:41 AM 26/10/2000 -0500, Dave Sherohman wrote:

>You _can_ do it by going to the General Options page and changing the "Where
>are replies to list messages directed? Poster is strongly recommended for
>most mailing lists." setting to "This list".

Thanx so much !!!



Gnoshi & Arabashi
    /\/\  o
   /    \ | < 0

ICQ: 4512776
FAX: +39.02.700.404.932
MOBILE: 0338.999.05.10




From michele at cirlab.com  Thu Oct 26 18:00:53 2000
From: michele at cirlab.com (Mico)
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 18:00:53 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Upgrading
Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.0.20001026175908.00ac5b50@mail.cirlab.com>

I'd like to upgrade to ver 2.0rc1, is it possible ?

How can I do ?

Thanx !

Michele Consolo

ICQ: 4512776
FAX: +39.02.700.404.932
MOBILE: +39.338.999.05.10
OFFICE: +39.02.806168.641




From gruener at mercatis.de  Thu Oct 26 18:26:49 2000
From: gruener at mercatis.de (Andreas Gruener)
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 18:26:49 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] RC1 Seems to work but incoming mails are ignored
Message-ID: <39F85B49.EF9FA9D6@mercatis.de>

Hi,

I installed today mailman for the first time. I started right away with
version 2.0RC1.
The web frontend works, I can subscribe, administer and so on. Mailman
sends mails out
as a result of all interaction with the web frontend.

But as soon as I send a mail to my list, I do not get any reaction
besides that two files are created in the directory qfiles. None of the
subscribed users get any mail. Subscription via mail doesn't work
either.

My System:
Linux 2.2.14 (SuSE)
python-1.5.2
apache-1.3.6
sendmail-8.9.3 

best regards,
Andreas

Please reply with cc to gruener at mercatis.de



From fliegl at in.tum.de  Thu Oct 26 19:17:32 2000
From: fliegl at in.tum.de (Deti Fliegl)
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 19:17:32 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] RC1 Seems to work but incoming mails are ignored
References: <39F85B49.EF9FA9D6@mercatis.de>
Message-ID: <39F8672C.1ADC84B9@in.tum.de>

Andreas Gruener wrote:
...
> But as soon as I send a mail to my list, I do not get any reaction
> besides that two files are created in the directory qfiles. None of the
> subscribed users get any mail. Subscription via mail doesn't work
> either.
Have you read the contents of the file UPGRADE ? Here it works... 


Deti
-- 
Detlef Fliegl, LRR, Technische Universitaet Muenchen
Phone: +49 89 289-25770, Fax +49-1805-05255556258, Room S3240



From claw at kanga.nu  Thu Oct 26 19:22:19 2000
From: claw at kanga.nu (J C Lawrence)
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 10:22:19 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] searching archives 
In-Reply-To: Message from Nick Marouf <marouf@earlham.edu> 
   of "Thu, 26 Oct 2000 08:04:07 CDT." <39F82BC7.C5E33EE4@earlham.edu> 
References: <39CB1504@qip2.ncat.edu> <11463.969773921@kanga.nu>  <39F82BC7.C5E33EE4@earlham.edu> 
Message-ID: <1279.972580939@kanga.nu>

On Thu, 26 Oct 2000 08:04:07 -0500 
Nick Marouf <marouf at earlham.edu> wrote:

> J C, I took your advice and got UdmSearch (mnoGoSearch) and am
> able to index the public archives by putting /mailman/archive in
> indexer.conf howerver for the private lists. is there a way that I
> can index them without making them public.

I haven't faced this problem as I use an external archiver rather
than Mailman's Pipermail, and I keep all archives public.

> I tried using
> http://emailadress:sitepasswd at www.test.com/mailman/private/listname
> in indexer, but that does not work.

No, it wouldn't.  That's for realm based authentication and in this
case Mailman is handling authentication on its own as a CGI.  

> if that is not possible I would like to know, or if there is a
> way, any help would be gratealy appreciated.

I don't have time right now to dig into this in detail (sorry), but
you should be able do something like (untested):

  https://.../mailman/private/users/?username=XXX&password=YYY

The problem being of course that Mailman then wants to set a cookie
to grant subsequent authentications.  UdmSearch currently does not
process or store cookies...

-- 
J C Lawrence                                 Home: claw at kanga.nu
---------(*)                               Other: coder at kanga.nu
http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/        Keys etc: finger claw at kanga.nu
--=| A man is as sane as he is dangerous to his environment |=--



From tgraham at mulberrytech.com  Thu Oct 26 19:09:22 2000
From: tgraham at mulberrytech.com (Tony Graham)
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 13:09:22 -0400 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Reply
In-Reply-To: <20001026094124.B14274@sherohman.org>
References: <200010252337.aa87158@boole.maths.tcd.ie>
	<5.0.0.25.0.20001026112230.00ab5598@pop.tiscalinet.it>
	<5.0.0.25.0.20001026133305.04025348@pop.tiscalinet.it>
	<20001026094124.B14274@sherohman.org>
Message-ID: <14840.25922.573000.64461@menteith.com>

At 26 Oct 2000 09:41 -0500, Dave Sherohman wrote:
 > On Thu, Oct 26, 2000 at 01:33:25PM +0200, Mico wrote:
 > > Hi, I'm a newbie and I'd like to understand how to set the mailman server 
 > > so that any subscriber can reply to the mailing list JUST doing a simple 
 > > reply and NOT a reply-to-all operation !
...
 > You _should_, however, almost certainly leave it as it is.  The settings
 > "Details" link has a little to say about this, but the major document that
 > I'm aware of on the topic is "Reply-To Considered Harmful", which can be
 > found at http://www.unicom.com/pw/reply-to-harmful.html

For the dissenters that also want an essay to quote, there's "Reply-to
Munging Considered Useful" by Simon Hill at
http://www.metasystema.org/essays/reply-to-useful.mhtml

Regards,


Tony Graham
======================================================================
Tony Graham                            mailto:tgraham at mulberrytech.com
Mulberry Technologies, Inc.                http://www.mulberrytech.com
17 West Jefferson Street                    Direct Phone: 301/315-9632
Suite 207                                          Phone: 301/315-9631
Rockville, MD  20850                                 Fax: 301/315-8285
----------------------------------------------------------------------
  Mulberry Technologies: A Consultancy Specializing in SGML and XML
======================================================================





From satyap at satya.virtualave.net  Thu Oct 26 18:51:50 2000
From: satyap at satya.virtualave.net (Satya)
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 22:21:50 +0530 (IST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] problems installing
In-Reply-To: <200010261352.GAA09747@gears.linuxave.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0010262220510.669-100000@hal9k.myip.org>

On Oct 26, 2000 at 12:53, Rodrigo Moya wrote:

>I've installed mailman on a RH 6.2 machine. The POP3 server in that
>machine works perfectly, the messages I send to the mailing lists are
>logged in the logs/post file. But, no mail goes to the list members.

POP3? SMTP would be what you want to check.

Some guesses...

Check mailman's crontab. The queue runner should be a cron job, AIUI.

-- 
Satya. <URL:http://satya.virtualave.net/>
US-bound grad students! For pre-apps, see <URL:http://quickapps.cjb.net/>
Due to circumstances beyond our control, we regret to inform you that
circumstances are beyond our control. --Paul Benoit




From tgraham at mulberrytech.com  Thu Oct 26 21:58:33 2000
From: tgraham at mulberrytech.com (Tony Graham)
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 15:58:33 -0400 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Commercial Mailman?
Message-ID: <14840.36073.690000.762027@menteith.com>

Are there any webhosting services that also support Mailman mailing
lists as a commercial service?  If so, can anyone comment on the
webhosts' competence and level of service?

I can find plenty of webhosts offering Majordomo lists, but I'd rather
have the option of using Mailman.

Regards,


Tony Graham
======================================================================
Tony Graham                            mailto:tgraham at mulberrytech.com
Mulberry Technologies, Inc.                http://www.mulberrytech.com
17 West Jefferson Street                    Direct Phone: 301/315-9632
Suite 207                                          Phone: 301/315-9631
Rockville, MD  20850                                 Fax: 301/315-8285
----------------------------------------------------------------------
  Mulberry Technologies: A Consultancy Specializing in SGML and XML
======================================================================





From Dan.Mick at west.sun.com  Thu Oct 26 22:25:16 2000
From: Dan.Mick at west.sun.com (Dan Mick)
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 13:25:16 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] the list admin overview page
References: <000001c03f00$97e08ec0$3201a8c0@sweetlands.com>
Message-ID: <39F8932C.93C316B1@west.sun.com>

> Defaults.py has the trailing /, but it is also defined in mm_cfg.py...that
> reference to DEFAULT_URL was missing the /.

You probably realize it by now, but it bears repeating: any "configuration variable"
should first be searched for in mm_cfg.py, and then, if not present, in Defaults.py;
if it needs to change from its default value, put the value in mm_cfg.py; don't
ever edit Defaults.py.  (Well, hardly ever, as G&S would say.)

Defaults is read, and then mm_cfg, and the new settings in mm_cfg are the "final"
settings.  Defaults is intended to be "Mailman version defaults", and mm_cfg
is "site defaults".  Other role splits are possible, of course, but the lesson
is that mm_cfg holds sway, so be sure to look and edit there in all but the most
exceptional cases.



From Dan.Mick at west.sun.com  Thu Oct 26 22:29:08 2000
From: Dan.Mick at west.sun.com (Dan Mick)
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 13:29:08 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] (no subject)
References: <NBBBKLCLLKJDKHFDFHCFMECLIAAA.boris@openair.com>
Message-ID: <39F89414.CDA1BBA0@west.sun.com>

Boris:

Many Mailman users would be very happy to see your changes.  Please consider
wrapping them up cleanly and submitting them as a Sourceforge patch.


Boris Boruchovich wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I have setup Mailman for internal use, as well as, for our OpenAir.com
> service.  Mailman is great.  I had to make couple of changes in order for it
> to work the way I needed.  Here is what I did:
> 
> 1. I changed unsubscribe not to require a password if the body only
> contained the keyword "unsubscribe".  Then only the sender is unsubscribed.
> This way it is easier for list members to unsubscribe.  All our members are
> subscribed by our service and have no access to their passwords.
> 
> 2. I changed subscribe to accept an Admin password when subscribing someone
> other than self.  I have made the list open so that it does not require
> either Admin approval nor member confirmation.  But, I did not want anyone
> subscribing someone else without any authority.
> 
> Questions:
> 
> 1. Does anyone see any major issues with what I did?  Could I have done this
> another way?
> 2. How do I set the "not me too" option to be set by default for each new
> member?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Boris
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users maillist  -  Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users



From Dan.Mick at west.sun.com  Thu Oct 26 22:30:32 2000
From: Dan.Mick at west.sun.com (Dan Mick)
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 13:30:32 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Reply
References: <200010252337.aa87158@boole.maths.tcd.ie> <5.0.0.25.0.20001026133305.04025348@pop.tiscalinet.it>
Message-ID: <39F89468.E36A7AF8@west.sun.com>

> Hi, I'm a newbie and I'd like to understand how to set the mailman server
> so that any subscriber can reply to the mailing list JUST doing a simple
> reply and NOT a reply-to-all operation !
> Thanx a lot !

Many would claim that you really don't want to do this; you really want to train
your users to make the choice: send private mail to the submitter, or send public
mail to everyone.  Please consider that strongly; email etiquette doesn't come from
nowhere.

But if you insist, look for the Reply-To setting and its explanation, and all
will be clear.



From Dan.Mick at west.sun.com  Thu Oct 26 22:39:24 2000
From: Dan.Mick at west.sun.com (Dan Mick)
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 13:39:24 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] RC1 Seems to work but incoming mails are ignored
References: <39F85B49.EF9FA9D6@mercatis.de>
Message-ID: <39F8967C.B3D82F51@west.sun.com>

Here comes the chorus:

"Cron?"

What will the protagonist's answer be?


Andreas Gruener wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I installed today mailman for the first time. I started right away with
> version 2.0RC1.
> The web frontend works, I can subscribe, administer and so on. Mailman
> sends mails out
> as a result of all interaction with the web frontend.
> 
> But as soon as I send a mail to my list, I do not get any reaction
> besides that two files are created in the directory qfiles. None of the
> subscribed users get any mail. Subscription via mail doesn't work
> either.
> 
> My System:
> Linux 2.2.14 (SuSE)
> python-1.5.2
> apache-1.3.6
> sendmail-8.9.3
> 
> best regards,
> Andreas
> 
> Please reply with cc to gruener at mercatis.de
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users maillist  -  Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users



From chuqui at plaidworks.com  Thu Oct 26 22:41:38 2000
From: chuqui at plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach)
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 13:41:38 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <39F89414.CDA1BBA0@west.sun.com>
References: <NBBBKLCLLKJDKHFDFHCFMECLIAAA.boris@openair.com>
 <39F89414.CDA1BBA0@west.sun.com>
Message-ID: <p0433010eb61e474894bd@[17.216.27.202]>

At 1:29 PM -0700 10/26/00, Dan Mick wrote:

>  > 1. I changed unsubscribe not to require a password if the body only
>>  contained the keyword "unsubscribe".  Then only the sender is unsubscribed.
>>  This way it is easier for list members to unsubscribe.  All our members are
>>  subscribed by our service and have no access to their passwords.

I like that. I really like that. that probably resolved 95% of the 
hassles with passwords.

-- 
Chuq Von Rospach - Plaidworks Consulting (mailto:chuqui at plaidworks.com)
Apple Mail List Gnome (mailto:chuq at apple.com)

Be just, and fear not.



From bob at nleaudio.com  Thu Oct 26 23:12:36 2000
From: bob at nleaudio.com (Bob Puff@NLE)
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 17:12:36 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] (no subject)
References: <NBBBKLCLLKJDKHFDFHCFMECLIAAA.boris@openair.com>
	 <39F89414.CDA1BBA0@west.sun.com> <p0433010eb61e474894bd@[17.216.27.202]>
Message-ID: <39F89E44.2855659@nleaudio.com>

>  > 1. I changed unsubscribe not to require a password if the body only
>>  contained the keyword "unsubscribe".  Then only the sender is unsubscribed.
>>  This way it is easier for list members to unsubscribe.  All our members are
>>  subscribed by our service and have no access to their passwords.


Tell us how to do this!!!  Please!

Bob



From bob at nleaudio.com  Thu Oct 26 23:27:40 2000
From: bob at nleaudio.com (Bob Puff@NLE)
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 17:27:40 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] HTML-free text digests
References: <NBBBKLCLLKJDKHFDFHCFMECLIAAA.boris@openair.com>
		 <39F89414.CDA1BBA0@west.sun.com> <p0433010eb61e474894bd@[17.216.27.202]> <39F89E44.2855659@nleaudio.com>
Message-ID: <39F8A1CC.CB03F014@nleaudio.com>

Is there a way to filter out html garbage on text-only digest versions?  I would think a simple filter that does the following would work nicely:

1. Get a character.  Is it a "<"?  No - pass it along, repeat.
2. Swallow the byte.  Get another byte.  Is it a ">"?  If not, repeat.
3. go to step 1.

...Since most all the html stuff is encased in <...>

I'd like to keep the html for the mime digests, naturally.

Bob



From gdinwiddie at min.net  Thu Oct 26 23:58:36 2000
From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie)
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 17:58:36 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] weird problems; a cry for help
In-Reply-To: <200010260128.VAA21240@min.net> from "George Dinwiddie" at Oct 25, 0 09:28:39 pm
Message-ID: <200010262158.RAA26703@min.net>

I feel like I'm talking to myself. :-)  I guess that since no one has
responded, this must be too wacked out to diagnose.  Should I delete
the list and re-create it?  If I do that, is there any way to salvage
either the member list or the archived messages?

Anxious for a reponse,
  George

> George Dinwiddie said:
> 
> I'm a mailman newbie and hardly know where to begin.  I've got a
> couple of lists running at www.alberg30.org in a virtual hosting
> environment where mailman is shared by all the domains hosted on
> the machine.  Everything was hunky-dory until...
> 
> Well, first the ISP had some sort of crash.  Then they moved
> from RedHat 6.0 to 7.0.  Somewhere along the line (maybe t
> the same time) they installed a newer version (or versions)
> of mailman.  I know that it was beta 6 but is now 2.0rc1.
> 
> First, I had problems with the "welcome" message being sent
> with the "Reply-to" header pointing to the list, instead of
> the admin address.  Then all mail stopped.  They got one
> list working again, but the other, the most important one,
> is really bollixed.
> 
> logs/error is filling up with:
> Oct 25 18:04:00 2000 (32336) Delivery exception: __int__
> Oct 25 18:04:00 2000 (32336) Traceback (innermost last):
>   File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/HandlerAPI.py", line 82, in do_pipeline
>     func(mlist, msg, msgdata)
>   File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/ToDigest.py", line 121, in process
>     inject_digest(mlist, digestfile, topicsfile)
>   File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/ToDigest.py", line 170, in inject_digest
>     msg = digest.asMIME()
>   File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/ToDigest.py", line 242, in asMIME
>     return self.Present(mime=1)
>   File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/ToDigest.py", line 279, in Present
>     lines.append(self.__mlist.digest_header % self.TemplateRefs())
> AttributeError: __int__
> 
> logs/digest is filling up with stuff like:
> Oct 25 18:09:00 2000 (20560) Public-list v 16 - 2035 msgs, 22 recips (4 mime, 18 text, 0 disabled)
> Oct 25 18:09:00 2000 (20560) Public-list v 16 - 2036 msgs, 22 recips (4 mime, 18 text, 0 disabled)
> Oct 25 18:09:01 2000 (20560) Public-list v 16 - 2037 msgs, 22 recips (4 mime, 18 text, 0 disabled)
> Oct 25 18:10:01 2000 (1315) Public-list v 16 - 2038 msgs, 22 recips (4 mime, 18 text, 0 disabled)
> Oct 25 18:10:01 2000 (1315) Public-list v 16 - 2039 msgs, 22 recips (4 mime, 18 text, 0 disabled)
> Oct 25 18:10:01 2000 (1315) Public-list v 16 - 2040 msgs, 22 recips (4 mime, 18 text, 0 disabled)
> Oct 25 18:10:01 2000 (1315) Public-list v 16 - 2041 msgs, 22 recips (4 mime, 18 text, 0 disabled)
> 
> logs/qrunner has stuff like:
> Oct 25 16:17:02 2000 (30248) Could not acquire qrunner lock
> Oct 25 16:18:02 2000 (7653) Could not acquire qrunner lock
> Oct 25 16:19:01 2000 (14921) Could not acquire qrunner lock
> Oct 25 16:20:01 2000 (24286) Could not acquire qrunner lock
> Oct 25 16:21:01 2000 (19783) Could not acquire qrunner lock
>   but I'm not sure it's related to the stuff in logs/digest.
> 
> lists/public-list/next-digest is filling up with many copies of a few messages.  Likewise,
> lists/public-list/next-digest-topics is filling up with the same 4 topics in rotation.
> 
> Any ideas on what the problem might be?  Better yet, any ideas on the fix?
> 
> Please copy me on the reply.
> 
> Thanks,
>   George Dinwiddie
> 
> 
> -- 
>  ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>   George Dinwiddie                                  gdinwiddie at min.net
>   The gods do not deduct from man's allotted span those hours spent in
>   sailing.                         NEW URL => http://www.Alberg30.org/
>  ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users maillist  -  Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> 


-- 
 ----------------------------------------------------------------------
  George Dinwiddie                                  gdinwiddie at min.net
  The gods do not deduct from man's allotted span those hours spent in
  sailing.                         NEW URL => http://www.Alberg30.org/
 ----------------------------------------------------------------------




From kaw at zrodla.most.org.pl  Fri Oct 27 00:14:27 2000
From: kaw at zrodla.most.org.pl (Krzysztof Wychowalek)
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 00:14:27 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] empty archives
Message-ID: <20001026221431.882DF1D0E7@dinsdale.python.org>

Hello everybody!
It seems that it is quite common problem - I was browsing the 
archives of this list and every month someone is asking similar 
question to this one I am going to ask... unfortunatelly I haven't 
found any good answer yet.
But I believe you all know what could be wrong. Perhaps something 
silly, but it has already droven me crazy.
I moved a site with several lists from Majordomo to Mailman. 
Everything is working fine, users are pleased, the only one problem 
is a question of archives.
Empty archives....

Whenever I go to a page like:
http://www.mysite/pipermail/list-name/
(e.g. http://www.most.org.pl/pipermail/eko-news/ - this is real)
I have a message "Currently, there are no archives".

I made the following section in my Web server configuration file:

<Directory /var/lib/mailman/archives/public>
Options FollowSymLinks
order allow,deny
allow from all
</Directory>

and I made the "pipermail" directory a symbolic link to 
/var/lib/mailman/archives/public

So, when I use the address http://www.mysite/pipermail/list-name/, 
it reads files from the /var/lib/mailman/archives/public/list-name . 
There are only two files there - one of them is "index.html" with this 
message "currently there are no archives", and the second one is 
pipermail.pck with some strange contents.

However, all the meesage sent to a list exist in the 
/var/lib/mailman/archives/private/list-name.mbox/list-name.mbox 
and if I type such URL in my browser, I have an access to some 
raw text data of all messages sent to the list so fat.

But this is not I what I am looking for :-(
I want a real archive, accessible from the info page of every list.

What I did wrong?
Why this "index.html" in my /var/lib/mailman/archives/public/list-
name directory is only a "currently there are no archives" instead of 
nice page with real archives?

Any suggestions? Thanks in advance.



Krzysztof Wychowalek
ICQ# 34184303
GSM +48602824334
PGP Key ID 0xEA9D2A3C



From Dan.Mick at West.Sun.COM  Fri Oct 27 00:25:44 2000
From: Dan.Mick at West.Sun.COM (Dan Mick)
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 15:25:44 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] weird problems; a cry for help
Message-ID: <200010262224.PAA25282@utopia.west.sun.com>

> > logs/error is filling up with:
> > Oct 25 18:04:00 2000 (32336) Delivery exception: __int__
> > Oct 25 18:04:00 2000 (32336) Traceback (innermost last):
> >   File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/HandlerAPI.py", line 82, in 
do_pipeline
> >     func(mlist, msg, msgdata)
> >   File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/ToDigest.py", line 121, in process
> >     inject_digest(mlist, digestfile, topicsfile)
> >   File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/ToDigest.py", line 170, in 
inject_digest
> >     msg = digest.asMIME()
> >   File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/ToDigest.py", line 242, in asMIME
> >     return self.Present(mime=1)
> >   File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/ToDigest.py", line 279, in Present
> >     lines.append(self.__mlist.digest_header % self.TemplateRefs())
> > AttributeError: __int__

What is your digest_header set to for this list?




From Dan.Mick at West.Sun.COM  Fri Oct 27 00:27:56 2000
From: Dan.Mick at West.Sun.COM (Dan Mick)
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 15:27:56 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] empty archives
Message-ID: <200010262226.PAA25433@utopia.west.sun.com>

Each message should be adding to .mbox; is it?
Each time a message is added, digesting should be occurring (assuming
you haven't turned it off).
Are there clues in any of the logs?

> Hello everybody!
> It seems that it is quite common problem - I was browsing the 
> archives of this list and every month someone is asking similar 
> question to this one I am going to ask... unfortunatelly I haven't 
> found any good answer yet.
> But I believe you all know what could be wrong. Perhaps something 
> silly, but it has already droven me crazy.
> I moved a site with several lists from Majordomo to Mailman. 
> Everything is working fine, users are pleased, the only one problem 
> is a question of archives.
> Empty archives....
> 
> Whenever I go to a page like:
> http://www.mysite/pipermail/list-name/
> (e.g. http://www.most.org.pl/pipermail/eko-news/ - this is real)
> I have a message "Currently, there are no archives".
> 
> I made the following section in my Web server configuration file:
> 
> <Directory /var/lib/mailman/archives/public>
> Options FollowSymLinks
> order allow,deny
> allow from all
> </Directory>
> 
> and I made the "pipermail" directory a symbolic link to 
> /var/lib/mailman/archives/public
> 
> So, when I use the address http://www.mysite/pipermail/list-name/, 
> it reads files from the /var/lib/mailman/archives/public/list-name . 
> There are only two files there - one of them is "index.html" with this 
> message "currently there are no archives", and the second one is 
> pipermail.pck with some strange contents.
> 
> However, all the meesage sent to a list exist in the 
> /var/lib/mailman/archives/private/list-name.mbox/list-name.mbox 
> and if I type such URL in my browser, I have an access to some 
> raw text data of all messages sent to the list so fat.
> 
> But this is not I what I am looking for :-(
> I want a real archive, accessible from the info page of every list.
> 
> What I did wrong?
> Why this "index.html" in my /var/lib/mailman/archives/public/list-
> name directory is only a "currently there are no archives" instead of 
> nice page with real archives?
> 
> Any suggestions? Thanks in advance.
> 
> 
> 
> Krzysztof Wychowalek
> ICQ# 34184303
> GSM +48602824334
> PGP Key ID 0xEA9D2A3C
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users maillist  -  Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users





From sylvianicole at netscape.net  Fri Oct 27 01:08:45 2000
From: sylvianicole at netscape.net (sylvia nicole)
Date: 26 Oct 00 16:08:45 PDT
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mass subscribe user command line
Message-ID: <20001026230845.1630.qmail@www0e.netaddress.usa.net>

I have a need to mass subscribe users as in the Membership Management screen
but outside of the web page.  How do I accomplish this?

____________________________________________________________________
Get your own FREE, personal Netscape WebMail account today at http://home.netscape.com/webmail



From Dan.Mick at West.Sun.COM  Fri Oct 27 02:00:11 2000
From: Dan.Mick at West.Sun.COM (Dan Mick)
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 17:00:11 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mass subscribe user command line
Message-ID: <200010262358.QAA28624@utopia.west.sun.com>

~mailman/bin is your friend

> I have a need to mass subscribe users as in the Membership Management screen
> but outside of the web page.  How do I accomplish this?




From wcooley at wirex.com  Fri Oct 27 02:55:15 2000
From: wcooley at wirex.com (W. Reilly Cooley)
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 17:55:15 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Perm Hosery in 2.0rc1?
Message-ID: <20001026175515.G3867@wirex.com>

I'm trying to set up 2.0rc1, and I can't seem to get it working.  There
seems to be a problem with permissions.  I've run check_perms and it
only bitches about the docs/ directory, which I created (for HTML docs).
I've found, however, that I get an error when I try to use the admin CGI,
and it leaves a lockfile in locks/ that causes any subsequent attempts
to hang.  I've found I can make modifications through the admin CGI
if I change the owner of lists/<listname>/config.db* to nobody (the
user&group of Apache).

However, if I do that, qrunner and the other cronned jobs fails with a
permission error.  Changing the ownership to 'mailman' lets these run.

I created the list as root; the install doc didn't say it needed to be
run as 'mailman'.  Also, I just tested running 'newlist' as 'mailman',
and it still failed with a permission error.

It /appears/ that the CGI needs to use mail/wrapper, but maybe Apache
does not let CGIs run Set[UG]ID programs?

What it looks to me like

Here's how I installed:

$ ./configure --with-mail-gid=nobody  --with-cgi-gid=nobody \
	--with-cgi-ext= && make
(As non-root, non-mailman user)

# make install

This is an Immunix 6.2 system, which is basically a Red Hat 6.2 system
rebuilt with the StackGuard compiler.  I've replaced Sendmail with
Postfix.  The above GIDs are correct for Postfix and Apache.

Just so you don't think I'm crazy, here are some perms that seem to
be relevant:

/home/mailman/lists/test]
# ls -l
total 22
-rw-rw-r--    1 mailman  mailman      1706 Oct 26 17:14 admindbpreamble.html
-rw-rw----    1 mailman  mailman      2815 Oct 26 17:14 config.db
-rw-rw----    1 nobody   mailman      2815 Oct 26 17:16 config.db.tmp.mithra.wirex.com.19740
-rw-rw-r--    1 mailman  mailman       189 Oct 26 17:14 handle_opts.html
-rw-rw-r--    1 mailman  mailman       900 Oct 26 17:14 headfoot.html
-rw-rw-r--    1 mailman  mailman      3136 Oct 26 17:14 listinfo.html
-rw-rw-r--    1 mailman  mailman         0 Oct 26 17:14 next-digest
-rw-rw-r--    1 mailman  mailman         0 Oct 26 17:14 next-digest-topics
-rw-rw-r--    1 mailman  mailman      4106 Oct 26 17:14 options.html
-rw-rw-r--    1 mailman  mailman      1169 Oct 26 17:14 roster.html
-rw-rw-r--    1 mailman  mailman       198 Oct 26 17:14 subscribe.html

# ls -l mail
total 33
-rwxr-sr-x    1 root     mailman     32464 Oct 26 11:35 wrapper

# ls -l locks
total 2
-rw-rw-r--    2 nobody   mailman        52 Oct 26  2000 test.lock
-rw-rw-r--    2 nobody   mailman        52 Oct 26  2000 test.lock.mithra.wirex.com.20052

And here's the backtrace from the CGI error:

Oct 26 17:53:43 2000 admin(20362): @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
admin(20362): [----- Mailman Version: 2.0rc1 -----]
admin(20362): [----- Traceback ------]
admin(20362): Traceback (innermost last):
admin(20362):   File "/home/mailman/scripts/driver", line 96, in run_main
admin(20362):     main()
admin(20362):   File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/admin.py", line 138, in main
admin(20362):     mlist.Save()
admin(20362):   File "/home/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 842, in Save
admin(20362):     self.__save(dict)
admin(20362):   File "/home/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 818, in __save
admin(20362):     os.link(fname, fname_last)
admin(20362): OSError: [Errno 1] Operation not permitted

(I'll assume you don't need the rest of it.  I can send it if you do.)

Wil
-- 
W. Reilly Cooley, Esq.                 wcooley at wirex.com






From Dan.Mick at West.Sun.COM  Fri Oct 27 03:05:03 2000
From: Dan.Mick at West.Sun.COM (Dan Mick)
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 18:05:03 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Perm Hosery in 2.0rc1?
Message-ID: <200010270103.SAA00626@utopia.west.sun.com>

That looks like the Openwall Security Patch issue; hard links
are restricted in some way I don't remember.  Check the list archives;
Marc Merlin has an installation procedure that works around the problem,
and has posted about it several times.

> I'm trying to set up 2.0rc1, and I can't seem to get it working.  There
> seems to be a problem with permissions.  I've run check_perms and it
> only bitches about the docs/ directory, which I created (for HTML docs).
> I've found, however, that I get an error when I try to use the admin CGI,
> and it leaves a lockfile in locks/ that causes any subsequent attempts
> to hang.  I've found I can make modifications through the admin CGI
> if I change the owner of lists/<listname>/config.db* to nobody (the
> user&group of Apache).
> 
> However, if I do that, qrunner and the other cronned jobs fails with a
> permission error.  Changing the ownership to 'mailman' lets these run.
> 
> I created the list as root; the install doc didn't say it needed to be
> run as 'mailman'.  Also, I just tested running 'newlist' as 'mailman',
> and it still failed with a permission error.
> 
> It /appears/ that the CGI needs to use mail/wrapper, but maybe Apache
> does not let CGIs run Set[UG]ID programs?
> 
> What it looks to me like
> 
> Here's how I installed:
> 
> $ ./configure --with-mail-gid=nobody  --with-cgi-gid=nobody \
> 	--with-cgi-ext= && make
> (As non-root, non-mailman user)
> 
> # make install
> 
> This is an Immunix 6.2 system, which is basically a Red Hat 6.2 system
> rebuilt with the StackGuard compiler.  I've replaced Sendmail with
> Postfix.  The above GIDs are correct for Postfix and Apache.
> 
> Just so you don't think I'm crazy, here are some perms that seem to
> be relevant:
> 
> /home/mailman/lists/test]
> # ls -l
> total 22
> -rw-rw-r--    1 mailman  mailman      1706 Oct 26 17:14 admindbpreamble.html
> -rw-rw----    1 mailman  mailman      2815 Oct 26 17:14 config.db
> -rw-rw----    1 nobody   mailman      2815 Oct 26 17:16 
config.db.tmp.mithra.wirex.com.19740
> -rw-rw-r--    1 mailman  mailman       189 Oct 26 17:14 handle_opts.html
> -rw-rw-r--    1 mailman  mailman       900 Oct 26 17:14 headfoot.html
> -rw-rw-r--    1 mailman  mailman      3136 Oct 26 17:14 listinfo.html
> -rw-rw-r--    1 mailman  mailman         0 Oct 26 17:14 next-digest
> -rw-rw-r--    1 mailman  mailman         0 Oct 26 17:14 next-digest-topics
> -rw-rw-r--    1 mailman  mailman      4106 Oct 26 17:14 options.html
> -rw-rw-r--    1 mailman  mailman      1169 Oct 26 17:14 roster.html
> -rw-rw-r--    1 mailman  mailman       198 Oct 26 17:14 subscribe.html
> 
> # ls -l mail
> total 33
> -rwxr-sr-x    1 root     mailman     32464 Oct 26 11:35 wrapper
> 
> # ls -l locks
> total 2
> -rw-rw-r--    2 nobody   mailman        52 Oct 26  2000 test.lock
> -rw-rw-r--    2 nobody   mailman        52 Oct 26  2000 
test.lock.mithra.wirex.com.20052
> 
> And here's the backtrace from the CGI error:
> 
> Oct 26 17:53:43 2000 admin(20362): 
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
> admin(20362): [----- Mailman Version: 2.0rc1 -----]
> admin(20362): [----- Traceback ------]
> admin(20362): Traceback (innermost last):
> admin(20362):   File "/home/mailman/scripts/driver", line 96, in run_main
> admin(20362):     main()
> admin(20362):   File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/admin.py", line 138, in main
> admin(20362):     mlist.Save()
> admin(20362):   File "/home/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 842, in Save
> admin(20362):     self.__save(dict)
> admin(20362):   File "/home/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 818, in __save
> admin(20362):     os.link(fname, fname_last)
> admin(20362): OSError: [Errno 1] Operation not permitted
> 
> (I'll assume you don't need the rest of it.  I can send it if you do.)
> 
> Wil
> -- 
> W. Reilly Cooley, Esq.                 wcooley at wirex.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users maillist  -  Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users





From mbrennen at fni.com  Fri Oct 27 04:10:39 2000
From: mbrennen at fni.com (Michael Brennen)
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 21:10:39 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Perm Hosery in 2.0rc1?
In-Reply-To: <200010270103.SAA00626@utopia.west.sun.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0010262108430.29993-100000@henry.fni.com>

Hi Wil... :)

I had the same problem running the Mandrake 7.x secure kernel; I had
no idea until afterwards that the Openwall patches are apparently in
that kernel.  You'll either need the workaround patch from
sourceforge or run the standard kernel.

   -- Michael

On Thu, 26 Oct 2000, Dan Mick wrote:

> That looks like the Openwall Security Patch issue; hard links
> are restricted in some way I don't remember.  Check the list archives;
> Marc Merlin has an installation procedure that works around the problem,
> and has posted about it several times.
> 
> > I'm trying to set up 2.0rc1, and I can't seem to get it working.  There
> > seems to be a problem with permissions.  I've run check_perms and it
> > only bitches about the docs/ directory, which I created (for HTML docs).
> > I've found, however, that I get an error when I try to use the admin CGI,
> > and it leaves a lockfile in locks/ that causes any subsequent attempts
> > to hang.  I've found I can make modifications through the admin CGI
> > if I change the owner of lists/<listname>/config.db* to nobody (the
> > user&group of Apache).




From haroldp at internal.org  Fri Oct 27 07:24:39 2000
From: haroldp at internal.org (Harold Paulson)
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 22:24:39 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman not mailing, man
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.20.0010262215010.70386-100000@polaris.internal.org>

Hey, 

My Mailman install hasn't posted an email to any lists in 12 hours.  If I
subscribe a user though the admin console, it sends out an email ok. but
posting to any os the lists fails.  The emails just build up in
~/qfiles.  I have tried every silly trick I could think of including:

	Updating to Mailman 2.0rc1
	Updating to Python 2.0

My server is running:

	FreeBSD 4.1.1-STABLE
	Sendmail 8.11.1
	
Only weird thing in ~/logs is qrunner says something like:

Oct 26 22:22:02 2000 (31904) Could not acquire qrunner lock

twice per minute.  deleteing the contents of ~/locks had no effect.  
crontab looks good, btw.

Any ideas at all?

	- H






From gruener at mercatis.de  Fri Oct 27 09:26:37 2000
From: gruener at mercatis.de (Andreas Gruener)
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 09:26:37 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] RC1 Seems to work but incoming mails are ignored
References: <39F85B49.EF9FA9D6@mercatis.de> <39F8967C.B3D82F51@west.sun.com>
Message-ID: <39F92E2D.A0FC4648@mercatis.de>

Hi,

cool answer - am I supposed to grep for cron (I suppose you're talking
about the schedule daemon) in all faqs, readme, and docs, or is this
some kind of riddle.

I'd really appreciate a little bit more details...

greetings,
Andreas

Dan Mick wrote:
> 
> Here comes the chorus:
> 
> "Cron?"
> 
> What will the protagonist's answer be?
> 
> Andreas Gruener wrote:
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > I installed today mailman for the first time. I started right away with
> > version 2.0RC1.
> > The web frontend works, I can subscribe, administer and so on. Mailman
> > sends mails out
> > as a result of all interaction with the web frontend.
> >
> > But as soon as I send a mail to my list, I do not get any reaction
> > besides that two files are created in the directory qfiles. None of the
> > subscribed users get any mail. Subscription via mail doesn't work
> > either.
> >
> > My System:
> > Linux 2.2.14 (SuSE)
> > python-1.5.2
> > apache-1.3.6
> > sendmail-8.9.3
> >
> > best regards,
> > Andreas
> >
> > Please reply with cc to gruener at mercatis.de
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------
> > Mailman-Users maillist  -  Mailman-Users at python.org
> > http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users

-- 
Viele Gr??e,
Andreas Gr?ner

---
Dipl. Inf. Andreas Gr?ner, mercatis information systems GmbH
Marlene-Dietrich-Str. 5   Fon +49 (0) 731 98588 - 615
89231 Neu-Ulm, Germany    Fax +49 (0) 731 98588 - 511
http://www.mercatis.de    mailto:gruener at mercatis.de



From peder.godvik at heliogruppen.no  Fri Oct 27 09:56:27 2000
From: peder.godvik at heliogruppen.no (Peder Godvik)
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 09:56:27 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Could not acquire qrunner lock
Message-ID: <fc.0064b5c8001ec5200064b5c8001ec520.1ec52b@heliogruppen.no>

Hi,

I'm having problems with messages not being delivered.. In the
logs/qrunner it says like this:

Oct 27 09:43:06 2000 (645) Could not acquire qrunner lock
Oct 27 09:44:04 2000 (765) Could not acquire qrunner lock
Oct 27 09:45:03 2000 (768) Could not acquire qrunner lock
Oct 27 09:47:02 2000 (842) Could not acquire qrunner lock

.. I've tried to delete the locks/* files.. but that doesn't help (and
maybe shouldn't?)

In the qfiles/ I see the following:

[root at list qfiles]# ll
totalt 2652
-rw-rw-r--    1 mail     mailman       118 okt 27 09:19
1648bb07e69af863fe4cf8b708d7fba86af590d7.db
-rw-rw-r--    1 mail     mailman      1939 okt 27 09:19
1648bb07e69af863fe4cf8b708d7fba86af590d7.msg
-rw-rw-r--    1 mail     mailman       230 okt 27 08:37
51755e5c9a88e9d79a028de6bc527ec876442260.db
-rw-rw-r--    1 mail     mailman   2678927 okt 27 08:37
51755e5c9a88e9d79a028de6bc527ec876442260.msg
-rw-rw-r--    1 mail     mailman       118 okt 27 09:19
74869bb4d259dc31edb73767e62331a45daf015e.db
-rw-rw-r--    1 mail     mailman      2536 okt 27 09:19
74869bb4d259dc31edb73767e62331a45daf015e.msg
-rw-rw-r--    1 mail     mailman       118 okt 27 09:00
c4589ffc0e6c80036146462a5d3e289c57f1d2fe.db
-rw-rw-r--    1 mail     mailman      1795 okt 27 09:00
c4589ffc0e6c80036146462a5d3e289c57f1d2fe.msg

.. so there are messages to be delivered.

I'm running on Red Hat Linux 6.2 and installed Mailman 2.0beta6.
I also seem to have problems with the web pages hanging quite often.. Then
I need to kill python processes and
delete lock-files.. This may be totally wrong of me.. 
-But I would be very happy for some help :)


.............................................
Vennlig hilsen/ Best regards

Peder Godvik
Systemkonsulent
Tel: +47 23 17 14 36

Helio Gruppen Norge AS
Tevlingveien 15
1081 OSLO
Norway
Tlf. +47 23 17 14 00
Fax: +47 23 17 14 01
www.heliogruppen.com




From ashley at pcraft.com  Fri Oct 27 10:02:03 2000
From: ashley at pcraft.com (Ashley M. Kirchner)
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 02:02:03 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] RC1 Seems to work but incoming mails are ignored
References: <39F85B49.EF9FA9D6@mercatis.de> <39F8967C.B3D82F51@west.sun.com> <39F92E2D.A0FC4648@mercatis.de>
Message-ID: <39F9367A.F33AD71F@pcraft.com>

Andreas Gruener wrote:

> cool answer - am I supposed to grep for cron (I suppose you're talking
> about the schedule daemon) in all faqs, readme, and docs, or is this
> some kind of riddle.
>
> I'd really appreciate a little bit more details...

    I'd hate to sound like an asshole here, but, if you read the documents,
you'd know what he was referring to.  Mailman is well documented, but if you
don't bother reading the manual, the install file, readme file, or anything
else related to Mailman that actually tells you, step by step, on how to set it
up and get it working, I'm afraid you're going to continue getting answers like
that.

    So, let me give you a bit more detail about this mysterious 'cron' Dan Mick
suggested:  READ THE FINE MANUAL!  (I prefer not to be rude folks)

    You're not supposed to be grepping for anything.  However, you are supposed
to help yourself in reading AT LEAST the INSTALL file that comes with Mailman.
Is that asking too much?  It's not like we're asking you to read a 600+ page
manual.  Someone actually went out of their way to write that INSTALL file,
which guides you step by step, on how you should install Mailman, INCLUDING the
cron task.  Think of how they feel when people like yourself start posting
questions that are well explained in their documentation.  Hell, for that
matter, put yourself in their shoes.  You write an instructions page, and
people just ignore it.  How would that make you feel?

    AMK4

--
H | Hi, I'm currently out of my mind.  Please leave a message.  BEEEEP!
  |____________________________________________________________________
  ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  Ashley M. Kirchner <mailto:ashley at pcraft.com>   .   303.442.6410 x130
  Director of Internet Operations / SysAdmin    .     800.441.3873 x130
  Photo Craft Laboratories, Inc.             .        eFax 248.671.0909
  http://www.pcraft.com                  .         3550 Arapahoe Ave #6
  .................. .  .  .     .               Boulder, CO 80303, USA





From f.sileno at agora.it  Fri Oct 27 10:40:51 2000
From: f.sileno at agora.it (Cthulhu)
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 10:40:51 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Reply-to in administrative messages.
Message-ID: <20001027104051.G19393@asistemi.stm.it>

I've set the "reply-to" parameter to the address of the list.
Yes, it is unsuggested, but I need to do that.

Now, when people try to subscribe by email, even the automatic
messages generated by MailMan have the Reply-To: set to the list name.

It this expected behaviour or a littel bug or what?

Another question: absolutely no way to enable subscriptions without
any confirm from someone?

	listing,
	  Cthulhu

P.S.: *SPOT* we are using an OOOOLD version of MailMan to manage about
20 lists with up to 12.000 users. It works.

-- 
   Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu http://www.rlyeh.it/ wgah'nagl fhtgan!
			 <f.sileno at agora.it>  




From sun13ya at sina.com  Fri Oct 27 10:58:06 2000
From: sun13ya at sina.com (sun)
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 16:58:06 +0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] cannot open -lcrypto: No such file or directory
Message-ID: <001301c03ff4$06e64be0$fa14a8c0@huayi>

hello! 
  I had installed openssl-0.9.6 and freeswan-1.5 .
The Makefile of pluto like this:

OPENSSLROOT=/usr/lib
OPENSSLINCLS=
OPENSSLLIBS= -lcrypto
OPENSSLDEFS=-DOPENSSL

When I am compiling the freeswan-1.5 
  the error like this:

gcc -o pluto  connections.o constants.o cookie.o crypto.o defs.o log.o state.o main.o server.o timer.o id.o ipsec_doi.o kernel.o kernel_comm.o demux.o packet.o
preshared.o dnskey.o rnd.o spdb.o sha1.o md5.o gcryptfix.o g10_dsa.o elgamal.o primegen.o smallprime.o ../lib/libdes.a ../lib/libgmp.a ../lib/libfreeswan.a openssl.o xmap.o xmap_file.o xmap_dir.o xmap_db.o xmap_ldap.o x_sobj.o -lresolv -lcrypto -L/usr/local/lib -lldap -llber -Wl,-rpath /usr/local/lib -L/usr/lib -ldb
/usr/bin/ld: cannot open -lcrypto: No such file or directory
collect2: ld returned 1 exit status
make[1]: *** [pluto] Error 1


can help me to solve  this question?

Thanks

Guoxing 
 

 
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From sun13ya at sina.com  Fri Oct 27 10:58:06 2000
From: sun13ya at sina.com (sun)
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 16:58:06 +0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] cannot open -lcrypto: No such file or directory
Message-ID: <001301c03ff4$06e64be0$fa14a8c0@huayi>

hello! 
  I had installed openssl-0.9.6 and freeswan-1.5 .
The Makefile of pluto like this:

OPENSSLROOT=/usr/lib
OPENSSLINCLS=
OPENSSLLIBS= -lcrypto
OPENSSLDEFS=-DOPENSSL

When I am compiling the freeswan-1.5 
  the error like this:

gcc -o pluto  connections.o constants.o cookie.o crypto.o defs.o log.o state.o main.o server.o timer.o id.o ipsec_doi.o kernel.o kernel_comm.o demux.o packet.o
preshared.o dnskey.o rnd.o spdb.o sha1.o md5.o gcryptfix.o g10_dsa.o elgamal.o primegen.o smallprime.o ../lib/libdes.a ../lib/libgmp.a ../lib/libfreeswan.a openssl.o xmap.o xmap_file.o xmap_dir.o xmap_db.o xmap_ldap.o x_sobj.o -lresolv -lcrypto -L/usr/local/lib -lldap -llber -Wl,-rpath /usr/local/lib -L/usr/lib -ldb
/usr/bin/ld: cannot open -lcrypto: No such file or directory
collect2: ld returned 1 exit status
make[1]: *** [pluto] Error 1


can help me to solve  this question?

Thanks

Guoxing 
 

 
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From rodrigo at linuxave.net  Fri Oct 27 12:26:04 2000
From: rodrigo at linuxave.net (Rodrigo Moya)
Date: 27 Oct 2000 09:26:04 -0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] problems installing
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0010262220510.669-100000@hal9k.myip.org>
Message-ID: <200010271025.DAA25357@gears.linuxave.net>

> On Oct 26, 2000 at 12:53, Rodrigo Moya wrote:
> 
> >I've installed mailman on a RH 6.2 machine. The POP3 server in that
> >machine works perfectly, the messages I send to the mailing lists are
> >logged in the logs/post file. But, no mail goes to the list members.
> 
> POP3? SMTP would be what you want to check.
> 
> Some guesses...
> 
> Check mailman's crontab. The queue runner should be a cron job, AIUI.
> 
it seems ok. The qrunner binary is set to be executed every minute (at least
this is what "crontab -u mailman -l" says.

And no /etc/cron.{allow,deny} exists, so mailman should be allowed to run cron
jobs.

And "tail -f logs/qrunner" shows 2 log messages every minute. So, everything
related to cron seems to work.

But still, list members don't get any message from the lists.

What else could be?

cheers





From jsmoriss at jsm-mv.dyndns.org  Fri Oct 27 17:17:10 2000
From: jsmoriss at jsm-mv.dyndns.org (Jean-Sebastien Morisset)
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 11:17:10 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Small bug...
Message-ID: <20001027111710.A23631@marvin.homeip.net>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

I'm using Mailman 2.0 beta 6 and I've noticed a little bug...

When people subscribe, the confirmation message they get back has a bad
reply-to: address. When they reply, it goes to the list! Of course, since
it's a members-only list, then I have to reject these message by hand.
It's very annoying.

I've noticed this behavior when using the "Explicit address" and "This
list" selections.

A friend just subscribed to one of my mailing lists, and it took 3 tries
before his confirmation message had the right reply-to. So it looks like
it's an intermitant problem.

Anyone had the same problem?

BTW, no, I can't use the "Poster" as the reply address. :-(

Thanks,
js.
- -- 
Jean-Sebastien Morisset, Sr. UNIX Admin <jsmoriss at jsm-mv.dyndns.org>
Personal Homepage <http://www.jsmoriss.dyndns.org/> 
UNIX, Internet, Homebrewing, Cigars, PCS, CP2020 and other Fun Stuff...
This is Linux Country. On a quiet night you can hear Windows NT reboot!

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGP 6.5.1i
Comment: Personal Home Page <http://www.jsmoriss.dyndns.org/>

iQA/AwUBOfmcdZxsiDnGGop4EQKu0wCdGX+veAm0zwYKXPOm3ReCJphWK3gAn3cW
2lngoyaDZq3YG/Eqor6BBJ1z
=qsiT
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----



From tim at maths.tcd.ie  Fri Oct 27 17:30:32 2000
From: tim at maths.tcd.ie (tim at maths.tcd.ie)
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 16:30:32 +0100 (BST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] RC1 Seems to work but incoming mails are ignored
In-Reply-To: <39F9367A.F33AD71F@pcraft.com> from "Ashley M. Kirchner" at "Oct 27, 2000 02:02:03 am"
Message-ID: <200010271630.aa61162@boole.maths.tcd.ie>

>     I'd hate to sound like an asshole here, but, if you read the documents,
> you'd know what he was referring to.  Mailman is well documented, but if you
> don't bother reading the manual, the install file, readme file, or anything
> else related to Mailman that actually tells you, step by step, on how to set it
> up and get it working, I'm afraid you're going to continue getting answers like
> that.

Where is the Mailman manual?





From tim at maths.tcd.ie  Fri Oct 27 17:33:32 2000
From: tim at maths.tcd.ie (tim at maths.tcd.ie)
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 16:33:32 +0100 (BST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mass subscribe user command line
In-Reply-To: <200010262358.QAA28624@utopia.west.sun.com> from Dan Mick at "Oct 26, 2000 05:00:11 pm"
Message-ID: <200010271633.aa61247@boole.maths.tcd.ie>

> ~mailman/bin is your friend
> 
> > I have a need to mass subscribe users as in the Membership Management screen
> > but outside of the web page.  How do I accomplish this?

More precisely,

~mailman/bin/add_members -n <list of email addresses> <list-name>






From haroldp at sierraweb.com  Fri Oct 27 17:55:19 2000
From: haroldp at sierraweb.com (Harold Paulson)
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 08:55:19 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] small bug in rc1
Message-ID: <v04220802b61f55c3d67c@[216.162.173.6]>

Hi,

the web interface wouldn't let me delete this address:

	"skb at succeed.net"@succeed.net

Not sure how it even got in there...

Anyway, bin/remove_members worked fine.

	- H


Harold Paulson                  Sierra Web Design
haroldp at sierraweb.com           http://www.sierraweb.com
VOICE: 775.833.9500             FAX:   810.314.1517



From jtpjatae at bi.ehu.es  Fri Oct 27 18:52:37 2000
From: jtpjatae at bi.ehu.es (Eduardo Jacob)
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 18:52:37 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Striping file attaches on messges sent to the list.
In-Reply-To: <20001027164902.2B6361CF88@dinsdale.python.org>
Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20001027184743.00caadf0@158.227.65.40>

	I would like to strip file attachements sent to the list with Mailman 
2.0rc1. I have tried to catch attachments by adding additional headers to 
in the Privacy Options->"Hold posts with header value matching a specified 
regexp:" But this doesn't solve my problem. I can block multipart messages 
(because there is in the headers section of the message such a header), but 
this disables both attachments and also rich,html-ized texts, which have an 
ascii part and a "rich/html" part. The rest of the message isn't parsed, so 
"content-type: application/" doesn't get caugth. Is there another possibility?

	A posibility would to simply scan instead of only the header also, the 
body. We have manually tried to do that modifying the function that scans 
for headers, but as we don't know anything about python, at least it 
doesn't gives error but it doesn't work.

	Eduardo

	Regards and Thankyou

	Eduardo

PD: I have tried the searching of the list but it doesn't work for me. I 
have read the threads and I haven't find something better than this option.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Eduardo Jacob - Area de Ingenieria Telematica
Departamento de Electronica y Telecomunicaciones
ETSII y de IT               Tel: +34 94 601 4214
UPV / EHU                   Fax: +34 94 601 4259
Alda Urquijo s/n         E-mail: jtpjatae at bi.ehu.es
E-48013 - Bilbao (Spain)
PGP Key available: Send email w/subject: PGPKEY
fingerprint      : D8 FA 54 49 F7 40 BA AA 09 1A 73 40 A4 26 ED BD




From ashley at pcraft.com  Fri Oct 27 19:08:43 2000
From: ashley at pcraft.com (Ashley M. Kirchner)
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 11:08:43 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] RC1 Seems to work but incoming mails are ignored
References: <200010271630.aa61162@boole.maths.tcd.ie>
Message-ID: <39F9B69A.E10649D0@pcraft.com>

tim at maths.tcd.ie wrote:

> Where is the Mailman manual?

    I was speaking in general, where softwares that are made for public usage have
some sort of 'manual', or installation instructions with them.  Mailman also has
that.  Several files for that matter:

ACKNOWLEDGMENTS  - BUGS             - FAQ           - INSTALL   - NEWS
README           - README.BSD       - README.LINUX  - README.NETSCAPE
README.QMAIL     - README.SENDMAIL  - TODO          - UPGRADING

    Those are all text files that one should peruse in case of trouble, specially the
INSTALL file.

    AMK4

--
W |
  |  I haven't lost my mind; it's backed up on tape somewhere.
  |____________________________________________________________________
  ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  Ashley M. Kirchner <mailto:ashley at pcraft.com>   .   303.442.6410 x130
  SysAdmin / Websmith                           .     800.441.3873 x130
  Photo Craft Laboratories, Inc.             .        eFax 248.671.0909
  http://www.pcraft.com                  .         3550 Arapahoe Ave #6
  .................. .  .  .     .               Boulder, CO 80303, USA





From haroldp at sierraweb.com  Fri Oct 27 19:14:58 2000
From: haroldp at sierraweb.com (Harold Paulson)
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 10:14:58 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] problems installing
In-Reply-To: <200010271025.DAA25357@gears.linuxave.net>
References: <200010271025.DAA25357@gears.linuxave.net>
Message-ID: <v04220803b61f655b8032@[216.162.173.6]>

Rodrigo,

We seem to be having similar problems, and no one is really making 
any good guesses.  One weird thing that I noticed is that if I kill 
all current qrunners, and remove all locks:

	killall qrunner; rm ~mailman/locks/*

then a new qrunner will pop up in a minute (from cron).  If I watch it in top:

	top -qUmailman

It uses a little CPU for a minute or two, and then slowly dies off to 
0% CPU usage.  It never does anything that I can see, and runs for a 
very long time.

Could I have a corrupted msg that is hanging qrunner?  The biggest 
file in qfiles is about 6k, so it's not a size issue...

	- H


WARNING: 'killall' may work very differently on various unix flavors. 
Don't do that on a Solaris box!



>>  On Oct 26, 2000 at 12:53, Rodrigo Moya wrote:
>>
>>  >I've installed mailman on a RH 6.2 machine. The POP3 server in that
>>  >machine works perfectly, the messages I send to the mailing lists are
>>  >logged in the logs/post file. But, no mail goes to the list members.
>>
>>  POP3? SMTP would be what you want to check.
>>
>>  Some guesses...
>>
>>  Check mailman's crontab. The queue runner should be a cron job, AIUI.
>>
>it seems ok. The qrunner binary is set to be executed every minute (at least
>this is what "crontab -u mailman -l" says.
>
>And no /etc/cron.{allow,deny} exists, so mailman should be allowed to run cron
>jobs.
>
>And "tail -f logs/qrunner" shows 2 log messages every minute. So, everything
>related to cron seems to work.
>
>But still, list members don't get any message from the lists.
>
>What else could be?
>
>cheers


Harold Paulson                  Sierra Web Design
haroldp at sierraweb.com           http://www.sierraweb.com
VOICE: 775.833.9500             FAX:   810.314.1517



From wcooley at wirex.com  Fri Oct 27 19:48:55 2000
From: wcooley at wirex.com (W. Reilly Cooley)
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 10:48:55 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Perm Hosery in 2.0rc1?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0010262108430.29993-100000@henry.fni.com>; from mbrennen@fni.com on Thu, Oct 26, 2000 at 09:10:39PM -0500
References: <200010270103.SAA00626@utopia.west.sun.com> <Pine.LNX.4.21.0010262108430.29993-100000@henry.fni.com>
Message-ID: <20001027104855.A5691@wirex.com>

On Thu, Oct 26, 2000 at 09:10:39PM -0500, Michael Brennen wrote:
> Hi Wil... :)

Hi Michael! :)

> I had the same problem running the Mandrake 7.x secure kernel; I had
> no idea until afterwards that the Openwall patches are apparently in
> that kernel.  You'll either need the workaround patch from
> sourceforge or run the standard kernel.

Yep, this kernel does have OpenWall applied.  Thanks for everyone who
picked up on this (even though I hadn't mentioned it).  I was wondering
how an RC release could seem so badly broken.

Wil
-- 
W. Reilly Cooley, Esq.                 wcooley at wirex.com






From Dan.Mick at west.sun.com  Fri Oct 27 21:01:07 2000
From: Dan.Mick at west.sun.com (Dan Mick)
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 12:01:07 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] problems installing
References: <200010271025.DAA25357@gears.linuxave.net> <v04220803b61f655b8032@[216.162.173.6]>
Message-ID: <39F9D0F3.7C89FF5B@west.sun.com>

Have either of you checked other logs, like error?

Can either of you run qrunner under something like truss or strace?
(on Solaris, truss python ~mailman/cron/qrunner will run qrunner once under
system-call tracing, so you can see what it's doing)

Running python -v ~mailman/cron/qrunner might be worth a try too

Harold Paulson wrote:
> 
> Rodrigo,
> 
> We seem to be having similar problems, and no one is really making
> any good guesses.  One weird thing that I noticed is that if I kill
> all current qrunners, and remove all locks:
> 
>         killall qrunner; rm ~mailman/locks/*
> 
> then a new qrunner will pop up in a minute (from cron).  If I watch it in top:
> 
>         top -qUmailman
> 
> It uses a little CPU for a minute or two, and then slowly dies off to
> 0% CPU usage.  It never does anything that I can see, and runs for a
> very long time.
> 
> Could I have a corrupted msg that is hanging qrunner?  The biggest
> file in qfiles is about 6k, so it's not a size issue...
> 
>         - H
> 
> WARNING: 'killall' may work very differently on various unix flavors.
> Don't do that on a Solaris box!
> 
> >>  On Oct 26, 2000 at 12:53, Rodrigo Moya wrote:
> >>
> >>  >I've installed mailman on a RH 6.2 machine. The POP3 server in that
> >>  >machine works perfectly, the messages I send to the mailing lists are
> >>  >logged in the logs/post file. But, no mail goes to the list members.
> >>
> >>  POP3? SMTP would be what you want to check.
> >>
> >>  Some guesses...
> >>
> >>  Check mailman's crontab. The queue runner should be a cron job, AIUI.
> >>
> >it seems ok. The qrunner binary is set to be executed every minute (at least
> >this is what "crontab -u mailman -l" says.
> >
> >And no /etc/cron.{allow,deny} exists, so mailman should be allowed to run cron
> >jobs.
> >
> >And "tail -f logs/qrunner" shows 2 log messages every minute. So, everything
> >related to cron seems to work.
> >
> >But still, list members don't get any message from the lists.
> >
> >What else could be?
> >
> >cheers
> 
> Harold Paulson                  Sierra Web Design
> haroldp at sierraweb.com           http://www.sierraweb.com
> VOICE: 775.833.9500             FAX:   810.314.1517
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users maillist  -  Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users



From Dan.Mick at west.sun.com  Fri Oct 27 21:02:34 2000
From: Dan.Mick at west.sun.com (Dan Mick)
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 12:02:34 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Reply-to in administrative messages.
References: <20001027104051.G19393@asistemi.stm.it>
Message-ID: <39F9D14A.4C8D0200@west.sun.com>


Cthulhu wrote:
> 
> I've set the "reply-to" parameter to the address of the list.
> Yes, it is unsuggested, but I need to do that.
> 
> Now, when people try to subscribe by email, even the automatic
> messages generated by MailMan have the Reply-To: set to the list name.
> 
> It this expected behaviour or a littel bug or what?

Known bug; already fixed, I thought in RC1 (but you don't say which
version).  If it's not in RC1 it's fixed in CVS.

> Another question: absolutely no way to enable subscriptions without
> any confirm from someone?

Right.



From ircd at capangil.de  Fri Oct 27 21:13:30 2000
From: ircd at capangil.de (Tobias Capangil)
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 21:13:30 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bug in Archives ?
Message-ID: <041301c0404a$02f43410$6b7c01d9@toby>

Hi,

I am using rc1 and whenever I someone posts something to a list, Mailman
logs following error to "logs/error":
#Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "./arch", line 129, in ?
    main()
  File "./arch", line 119, in main
    archiver.close()
  File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/pipermail.py", line 301, in close
    self.write_TOC()
  File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/HyperArch.py", line 910, in write_TOC
    toc.write(self.html_TOC())
  File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/HyperArch.py", line 660, in html_TOC
    d["archive_listing"] = string.join(accum, '')
UnboundLocalError: Local variable 'accum' referenced before assignment

Same if I try to run bin/arch.
The archive *.html file is empty.

But the list is NOT broken, because I added few new lists and the error
still occurs.
Any idea ?

Thanks in advance,

Tobias





From haroldp at sierraweb.com  Fri Oct 27 21:25:39 2000
From: haroldp at sierraweb.com (Harold Paulson)
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 12:25:39 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] problems installing
In-Reply-To: <39F9D0F3.7C89FF5B@west.sun.com>
References: <200010271025.DAA25357@gears.linuxave.net>
 <v04220803b61f655b8032@[216.162.173.6]> <39F9D0F3.7C89FF5B@west.sun.com>
Message-ID: <v04220804b61f844cc543@[216.162.173.6]>

Dan,

Thanks much for responding.  Any help, even just pointing me in new 
directions to look, is very much appreciated.

>Have either of you checked other logs, like error?

Yes.  Nothing gets sent to error, in my case.


>Can either of you run qrunner under something like truss or strace?
>(on Solaris, truss python ~mailman/cron/qrunner will run qrunner once under
>system-call tracing, so you can see what it's doing)

reading the man page for 'ktrace' now...

>Running python -v ~mailman/cron/qrunner might be worth a try too

The first time I tried running python -v, it hung after doing 
something with "MultiLogger.py", like this:

	http://mail.sierraweb.com/test.txt

I killed that and tried again a bit later, and it seemed to get 
farther, with this output:

	http://mail.sierraweb.com/test2.txt

and it looks hung at that point, or still in the debugger or 
something?  Nothing really jumps out at me in the output, but I'm not 
a python programmer.

	- H


>Harold Paulson wrote:
>>
>>  Rodrigo,
>>
>>  We seem to be having similar problems, and no one is really making
>>  any good guesses.  One weird thing that I noticed is that if I kill
>>  all current qrunners, and remove all locks:
>>
>>          killall qrunner; rm ~mailman/locks/*
>>
>>  then a new qrunner will pop up in a minute (from cron).  If I 
>>watch it in top:
>>
>>          top -qUmailman
>>
>>  It uses a little CPU for a minute or two, and then slowly dies off to
>>  0% CPU usage.  It never does anything that I can see, and runs for a
>>  very long time.
>>
>>  Could I have a corrupted msg that is hanging qrunner?  The biggest
>>  file in qfiles is about 6k, so it's not a size issue...
>>
>>          - H
>>
>>  WARNING: 'killall' may work very differently on various unix flavors.
>>  Don't do that on a Solaris box!
>>
>>  >>  On Oct 26, 2000 at 12:53, Rodrigo Moya wrote:
>>  >>
>>  >>  >I've installed mailman on a RH 6.2 machine. The POP3 server in that
>>  >>  >machine works perfectly, the messages I send to the mailing lists are
>>  >>  >logged in the logs/post file. But, no mail goes to the list members.
>>  >>
>>  >>  POP3? SMTP would be what you want to check.
>>  >>
>>  >>  Some guesses...
>>  >>
>>  >>  Check mailman's crontab. The queue runner should be a cron job, AIUI.
>>  >>
>>  >it seems ok. The qrunner binary is set to be executed every 
>>minute (at least
>>  >this is what "crontab -u mailman -l" says.
>>  >
>>  >And no /etc/cron.{allow,deny} exists, so mailman should be 
>>allowed to run cron
>>  >jobs.
>>  >
>>  >And "tail -f logs/qrunner" shows 2 log messages every minute. So, 
>>everything
>>  >related to cron seems to work.
>>  >
>>  >But still, list members don't get any message from the lists.
>>  >
>>  >What else could be?
>>  >
>>  >cheers
>>
>>  Harold Paulson                  Sierra Web Design
>>  haroldp at sierraweb.com           http://www.sierraweb.com
>>  VOICE: 775.833.9500             FAX:   810.314.1517
>>
>>  ------------------------------------------------------
>>  Mailman-Users maillist  -  Mailman-Users at python.org
>>  http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users


Harold Paulson                  Sierra Web Design
haroldp at sierraweb.com           http://www.sierraweb.com
VOICE: 775.833.9500             FAX:   810.314.1517



From chulas at darkvoid.msoe.edu  Fri Oct 27 21:54:18 2000
From: chulas at darkvoid.msoe.edu (Stephen J Chula)
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 14:54:18 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Weird Setting.
Message-ID: <39F9DD6A.EEB30BC8@darkvoid.msoe.edu>

Ok,
I have moved into a job where a mailman list-serv is in place.  On of
the lists got a setting slightly messed up.  when a new user subscribes
to the list, mailman send the confirmation notice, however the reply to
address is incorrect.  I has a reply address of abc-list instead of
abc-list-request.  Where is that set? i cannot find documentation on it,
or a place to set it.
Thanx
-Steve
chulas at msoe.edu





From rodrigo at linuxave.net  Fri Oct 27 22:00:31 2000
From: rodrigo at linuxave.net (Rodrigo Moya)
Date: 27 Oct 2000 19:00:31 -0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] problems installing
In-Reply-To: <39F9D0F3.7C89FF5B@west.sun.com>
References: <200010271025.DAA25357@gears.linuxave.net> <v04220803b61f655b8032@[216.162.173.6]>  <39F9D0F3.7C89FF5B@west.sun.com>
Message-ID: <200010271959.MAA31558@gears.linuxave.net>

> Have either of you checked other logs, like error?
> 
/var/log/maillog shows this:

Oct 26 15:47:00 www sendmail[9366]: PAA09366: to=<mdeza at tesora.com>, delay=00:00:00, mailer=esmtp, stat=queued

several times, one for each member of the list. stat=queued? Does this have
something to do with the SMTP config?


/var/log/cron:

mailman (10/27-22:07:00-14628) CMD (/usr/bin/python -S /usr/share/mailman/cron/qrunner)
mailman (10/27-22:08:01-14630) CMD (/usr/bin/python -S /usr/share/mailman/cron/qrunner)
mailman (10/27-22:09:00-14633) CMD (/usr/bin/python -S /usr/share/mailman/cron/qrunner)

> Can either of you run qrunner under something like truss or strace?
> (on Solaris, truss python ~mailman/cron/qrunner will run qrunner once under
> system-call tracing, so you can see what it's doing)
> 
> Running python -v ~mailman/cron/qrunner might be worth a try too
>
in my case, it seems normal, isn't it?

===============================
... [losts of import .... removed] 
import Mailman.Bouncers.BouncerAPI # precompiled from /usr/share/mailman/Mailman/Bouncers/BouncerAPI.pyc
# /usr/share/mailman/Mailman/Logging/MultiLogger.pyc matches /usr/share/mailman/Mailman/Logging/MultiLogger.py
import Mailman.Logging.MultiLogger # precompiled from /usr/share/mailman/Mailman/Logging/MultiLogger.pyc
# cleanup __main__
# cleanup[1] paths
# cleanup[1] cPickle
# cleanup[1] math
# cleanup[1] crypt
# cleanup[1] strop
# cleanup[1] site
# cleanup[1] copy_reg
# cleanup[1] cStringIO
# cleanup[1] mimetools
# cleanup[1] exceptions
# cleanup[1] posix
# cleanup[1] signal
# cleanup[1] Mailman.Archiver.Archiver
# cleanup[1] tempfile
# cleanup[1] pcre
# cleanup[1] Mailman
# cleanup[1] Mailman.MailList
# cleanup[1] Mailman.Archiver
# cleanup[1] Mailman.Autoresponder
# cleanup[1] Mailman.Version
# cleanup[1] Mailman.Deliverer
# cleanup[1] Mailman.htmlformat
# cleanup[1] Mailman.Handlers
# cleanup[1] Mailman.Defaults
# cleanup[1] Mailman.LockFile
# cleanup[1] Mailman.MailCommandHandler
# cleanup[1] shutil
# cleanup[1] Mailman.Logging
# cleanup[1] Mailman.Logging.StampedLogger
# cleanup[1] Mailman.GatewayManager
# cleanup[1] Mailman.ListAdmin
# cleanup[1] Mailman.pythonlib
# cleanup[1] Mailman.Logging.MultiLogger
# cleanup[1] Mailman.Bouncer
# cleanup[1] Mailman.Logging.Logger
# cleanup[1] errno
# cleanup[1] Mailman.HTMLFormatter
# cleanup[1] Mailman.Digester
# cleanup[1] Mailman.Bouncers
# cleanup[1] Mailman.Logging.Utils
# cleanup[1] Mailman.SecurityManager
# cleanup[1] Mailman.Mailbox
# cleanup[1] Mailman.Logging.Syslog
# cleanup[1] socket
# cleanup[1] mailbox
# cleanup[1] rfc822
# cleanup[1] Mailman.Crypt
# cleanup[1] Mailman.Handlers.HandlerAPI
# cleanup[1] Mailman.pythonlib.StringIO
# cleanup[1] Mailman.Cookie
# cleanup[1] Mailman.Message
# cleanup[1] Mailman.Bouncers.BouncerAPI
# cleanup[1] marshal
# cleanup[1] traceback
# cleanup[1] Mailman.pythonlib.rfc822
# cleanup[1] sha
# cleanup[1] Mailman.Utils
# cleanup[1] regsub
# cleanup[1] regex
# cleanup[1] types
# cleanup[1] random
# cleanup[1] time
# cleanup[1] linecache
# cleanup[1] urlparse
# cleanup[1] re
# cleanup[1] Mailman.Errors
# cleanup[1] Mailman.mm_cfg
# cleanup[1] whrandom
# cleanup[1] string
# cleanup[2] os
# cleanup[2] os.path
# cleanup[2] UserDict
# cleanup[2] stat
# cleanup[2] posixpath
# cleanup sys
# cleanup __builtin__
# cleanup ints: 2 unfreed ints in 1 out of 4 blocks
# cleanup floats

========================================================

cheers




From mir at suse.com  Fri Oct 27 22:19:46 2000
From: mir at suse.com (Michael Radziej)
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 13:19:46 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: RC1 Seems to work but incoming mails are ignored
In-Reply-To: <20001027080601.79D951CE9C@dinsdale.python.org>; from mailman-users-request@python.org on Fri, Oct 27, 2000 at 04:06:01AM -0400
References: <20001027080601.79D951CE9C@dinsdale.python.org>
Message-ID: <20001027131946.G13782@suse.com>

On Fri, Oct 27, mailman-users-request at python.org wrote:

> Andreas Gruener wrote:
> 
> > cool answer - am I supposed to grep for cron (I suppose you're talking
> > about the schedule daemon) in all faqs, readme, and docs, or is this
> > some kind of riddle.
> >
> > I'd really appreciate a little bit more details...
> 
>     So, let me give you a bit more detail about this mysterious 'cron' Dan Mick
> suggested:  READ THE FINE MANUAL!  (I prefer not to be rude folks)

Andreas, play it cool, man. You're right, but I've seen discussions like
this a lot. Sometimes a poor soul is really just confused and missed
one particular sentence in an INSTALL or FAQ. Let's assume this is the
case.

Let's be userfriendly.

The INSTALL (mine is from beta6, yours may differ) file says:

    - Set up the crontab entries.  Mailman runs a number of cron jobs
      for its basic functionality.  You need to be user `mailman' (or
      whatever you specified as --with-ownername) to perform this
      step.  Add $prefix/cron/crontab.in as a crontab entry by
      executing these commands:

          % su - mailman
          % cd $prefix/cron
          % crontab crontab.in


If you've just missed that paragraph, well, go ahead. If you missed the
whole INSTALL file, read it carefully. It's not very long and contains a
lot of essential information. You will make a lot of people angry if you
don't read it and expect the list members to read it for you. All the
CAPITAL LETTERS documentation files are interesting. Say, are you used
to install software on Unix boxes?

> matter, put yourself in their shoes.  You write an instructions page, and
> people just ignore it.  How would that make you feel?

Andreas, you are still perfectly right.

Cheers,

Michael-reads-documentation-files-for-you


-- 

=============================================================================
Michael Radziej                 - currently in Oakland -
SuSE GmbH, Interne EDV    Phone +1 510 628 3380 extension 5071
Michael.Radziej at suse.de   Cellular ("Handy") +1 49 1795977810
=============================================================================
                  reply goes to list | reply goes to sender
                  -------------------+---------------------
                    oaktech          |  oakland
                    profserv         |  users
                    custserv-talk    |  suna
                    supporters       |
                    talk             |   
                  -----------------------------------------
                       SuSE.com mailing list truth table
                   Not subject to modifications whatsoever.



From barry at wooz.org  Fri Oct 27 22:45:02 2000
From: barry at wooz.org (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 16:45:02 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] 2.0rc1 notes
References: <39F5C94B.BFC69A86@us.ibm.com>
Message-ID: <14841.59726.650819.429440@anthem.concentric.net>

>>>>> "SF" == Steve Fox <stevefx at us.ibm.com> writes:

    SF> 1. When a new list is created the mail which gets sent out to
    SF> the list administration appears to be missing a slash in the
    SF> URL after hostname/mailman as it says
    SF> hostname/mailmanadmin/listname and
    SF> hostname/mailmanlistinfo/listname

Be sure DEFAULT_URL ends in a slash.

    SF> 2. On the general options of the admin page the parameters
    SF> which have "yes" and "no" for options do not have them
    SF> consistently ordered. Most have "No" then "Yes" but I found
    SF> one that doesn't (the "Send mail to poster when their posting
    SF> is held for approval?" option). No biggie, just thought it
    SF> might clean up the interface a little.

Yup, this sucks and will likely be cleaned up in 2.1.

-Barry



From Dan.Mick at West.Sun.COM  Fri Oct 27 22:52:58 2000
From: Dan.Mick at West.Sun.COM (Dan Mick)
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 13:52:58 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: RC1 Seems to work but incoming mails are ignored
Message-ID: <200010272051.NAA25418@utopia.west.sun.com>

> Andreas, play it cool, man. You're right, but I've seen discussions like
> this a lot. Sometimes a poor soul is really just confused and missed
> one particular sentence in an INSTALL or FAQ. Let's assume this is the
> case.

That's why there's a new paragraph at the very beginning of INSTALL.
Really.  Second paragraph.  Go look.





From stevefx at us.ibm.com  Fri Oct 27 22:55:50 2000
From: stevefx at us.ibm.com (Steve Fox)
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 15:55:50 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] 2.0rc1 notes
References: <OF6302C232.9ABCDC1B-ON86256985.00728E31@RCHLAND.IBM.COM>
Message-ID: <39F9EBD6.DFCDF55E@us.ibm.com>

> >>>>> "SF" == Steve Fox <stevefx at us.ibm.com> writes:
> 
>     SF> 1. When a new list is created the mail which gets sent out to
>     SF> the list administration appears to be missing a slash in the
>     SF> URL after hostname/mailman as it says
>     SF> hostname/mailmanadmin/listname and
>     SF> hostname/mailmanlistinfo/listname
> 
> Be sure DEFAULT_URL ends in a slash.

Duh, thanks ;0) 

Did this change between beta2 and beta6?
 
>     SF> 2. On the general options of the admin page the parameters
>     SF> which have "yes" and "no" for options do not have them
>     SF> consistently ordered. Most have "No" then "Yes" but I found
>     SF> one that doesn't (the "Send mail to poster when their posting
>     SF> is held for approval?" option). No biggie, just thought it
>     SF> might clean up the interface a little.
> 
> Yup, this sucks and will likely be cleaned up in 2.1.

Cool

Thanks for your help

-- 
Steve Fox
IBM Linux Technology Center
http://oss.software.ibm.com/developerworks/opensource/linux/
http://stevefx.rchland.ibm.com (IBM intranet)
http://k-lug.com (Rochester Linux Users Group)



From barry at wooz.org  Fri Oct 27 22:57:28 2000
From: barry at wooz.org (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 16:57:28 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Something is fishy with RedHat 7 + Mailman 2.0rc1
References: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0010260002280.19457-100000@steed.fates.org>
Message-ID: <14841.60472.366978.730897@anthem.concentric.net>

>>>>> "DBO" == David B O'Donnell <atropos at fates.org> writes:

    DBO> Lastly, I'm noticing that it takes a LONG time for posts to
    DBO> actually make it to lists. Like up to an hour for them to go
    DBO> from arriving at the wrapper script to actually being posted.

    DBO> I'm at a loss for what's going on. Anyone with ideas, please
    DBO> let me know, I'm about ready to either go back to Mailman 1.2
    DBO> or start looking for another list manager.

You've likely got some stale locks sitting around from before your
upgrade.  You need to remove the stale ones and things should get
unwedged again.

-Barry




From barry at wooz.org  Fri Oct 27 22:59:15 2000
From: barry at wooz.org (barry at wooz.org)
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 16:59:15 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] 2.0rc1 notes
References: <OF6302C232.9ABCDC1B-ON86256985.00728E31@RCHLAND.IBM.COM>
	<39F9EBD6.DFCDF55E@us.ibm.com>
Message-ID: <14841.60579.703781.907265@anthem.concentric.net>

>>>>> "SF" == Steve Fox <stevefx at us.ibm.com> writes:

    SF> Did this change between beta2 and beta6?
 
Yep!

-Barry



From Dan.Mick at West.Sun.COM  Fri Oct 27 23:12:55 2000
From: Dan.Mick at West.Sun.COM (Dan Mick)
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 14:12:55 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] problems installing
Message-ID: <200010272111.OAA26336@utopia.west.sun.com>

> > Have either of you checked other logs, like error?
> > 
> /var/log/maillog shows this:
> 
> Oct 26 15:47:00 www sendmail[9366]: PAA09366: to=<mdeza at tesora.com>, 
delay=00:00:00, mailer=esmtp, stat=queued
> 
> several times, one for each member of the list. stat=queued? Does this have
> something to do with the SMTP config?

I believe that just means that, rather than connecting immediately,
your sendmail has put the mail request on its queue (visible with
mailq).  I'm not 100% sure what all the reasons are for this;
perhaps "max number of sendmails already running" or something.
But it's worth checking to see if your sendmail ever sends those;
do something like "grep PAA09366" in /var/log/maillog to see what
the disposition of that message was, and/or look at the mailq output.
Perhaps your sendmail is gagging.

But either way, it looks like that message has been handed over to
sendmail; if it was a Mailman message, the problem's outside of
Mailman, most likely.

> /var/log/cron:
> 
> mailman (10/27-22:07:00-14628) CMD (/usr/bin/python -S 
/usr/share/mailman/cron/qrunner)
> mailman (10/27-22:08:01-14630) CMD (/usr/bin/python -S 
/usr/share/mailman/cron/qrunner)
> mailman (10/27-22:09:00-14633) CMD (/usr/bin/python -S 
/usr/share/mailman/cron/qrunner)

looks like qrunner is indeed running every minute, again pointing
away from Mailman.

> > Can either of you run qrunner under something like truss or strace?
> > (on Solaris, truss python ~mailman/cron/qrunner will run qrunner once under
> > system-call tracing, so you can see what it's doing)
> > 
> > Running python -v ~mailman/cron/qrunner might be worth a try too
> >
> in my case, it seems normal, isn't it?

Yes, looks fine.  It should be noted, of course, that all qrunner
does is clean out ~mailman/qfiles; if nothing is there, the mail
has left Mailman's hands.




From barry at wooz.org  Fri Oct 27 23:26:05 2000
From: barry at wooz.org (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 17:26:05 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] 2.0rc1 / no explicit Reply-To: header
References: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0010252342590.26821-100000@henry.fni.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.21.0010252348130.26821-100000@henry.fni.com>
Message-ID: <14841.62189.745883.26402@anthem.concentric.net>

>>>>> "MB" == Michael Brennen <mbrennen at fni.com> writes:

    MB> With the explicit header defined, I tried to remove it by
    MB> blanking the explicit Reply-To header field.  However, when I
    MB> submitted the changes, the redisplayed page still had the old
    MB> value.  It seems that once it gets in, it is stuck.

Correct.  Although it doesn't make any sense to have explit reply-to
set and have an empty reply-to field, Mailman's admin interface could
be smarter about this.  It won't get fixed for 2.0, but I've submitted
a bug report so it won't get lost.

-Barry



From barry at wooz.org  Fri Oct 27 23:42:53 2000
From: barry at wooz.org (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 17:42:53 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Reply
References: <200010252337.aa87158@boole.maths.tcd.ie>
	<5.0.0.25.0.20001026112230.00ab5598@pop.tiscalinet.it>
	<5.0.0.25.0.20001026133305.04025348@pop.tiscalinet.it>
	<20001026094124.B14274@sherohman.org>
	<14840.25922.573000.64461@menteith.com>
Message-ID: <14841.63197.717114.364704@anthem.concentric.net>

>>>>> "TG" == Tony Graham <tgraham at mulberrytech.com> writes:

    TG> For the dissenters that also want an essay to quote, there's
    TG> "Reply-to Munging Considered Useful" by Simon Hill at
    TG> http://www.metasystema.org/essays/reply-to-useful.mhtml

The one thing this article doesn't address is users who add their own
Reply-To: headers.  What do you do then?  Mailman's policy is to not
modify such a header if the original message already has one.

In any event, I've added this link to the details for
reply_goes_to_list.  I have my own opinion, as embodied in the tone of
the text and the defaults, but I do believe admins should be given as
much information as possible, and let them decide for themselves.

Thanks for this link!
-Barry



From rodrigo at linuxave.net  Sat Oct 28 00:20:06 2000
From: rodrigo at linuxave.net (Rodrigo Moya)
Date: 27 Oct 2000 21:20:06 -0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] problems installing
In-Reply-To: <200010272111.OAA26336@utopia.west.sun.com>
Message-ID: <200010272219.PAA08667@gears.linuxave.net>

> 
> But either way, it looks like that message has been handed over to
> sendmail; if it was a Mailman message, the problem's outside of
> Mailman, most likely.
> 
well, I just restarted the sendmail daemon, and everything started to work??

I just:

/etc/rc.d/init.d/sendmail stop (and then restart)

thanks for the help




From Dan.Mick at West.Sun.COM  Sat Oct 28 01:04:45 2000
From: Dan.Mick at West.Sun.COM (Dan Mick)
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 16:04:45 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] weird problems; a cry for help
Message-ID: <200010272303.QAA01744@utopia.west.sun.com>

Argh.

The problem is that George's digest header had the string '% d'
in it, and the 'string-mod' operation was trying to treat that
as an integer format field.  (the text was "10% discount").

Erk.  I think this is a Python bug; I think it should not
treat '% d' the same as '%d'; but I'm having a hard time 
discovering anything formally specifying the format of a
'printf-like string interpolation function of the % operator'
in the Python documentation; any help appreciated.

But in any event, if anyone sees anything similar, suspect '%'
characters in your header/footer text.

George, a workaround seems to be to change that to "10%% discount",
but that only works out right if you *know* the '%' operator is
going to be applied.  In this case, you know it is, so it should
be safe.

But make no mistake: Python really blind-sided you on this one, IMO.

> I feel like I'm talking to myself. :-)  I guess that since no one has
> responded, this must be too wacked out to diagnose.  Should I delete
> the list and re-create it?  If I do that, is there any way to salvage
> either the member list or the archived messages?
> 
> Anxious for a reponse,
>   George
> 
> > George Dinwiddie said:
> > 
> > I'm a mailman newbie and hardly know where to begin.  I've got a
> > couple of lists running at www.alberg30.org in a virtual hosting
> > environment where mailman is shared by all the domains hosted on
> > the machine.  Everything was hunky-dory until...
> > 
> > Well, first the ISP had some sort of crash.  Then they moved
> > from RedHat 6.0 to 7.0.  Somewhere along the line (maybe t
> > the same time) they installed a newer version (or versions)
> > of mailman.  I know that it was beta 6 but is now 2.0rc1.
> > 
> > First, I had problems with the "welcome" message being sent
> > with the "Reply-to" header pointing to the list, instead of
> > the admin address.  Then all mail stopped.  They got one
> > list working again, but the other, the most important one,
> > is really bollixed.
> > 
> > logs/error is filling up with:
> > Oct 25 18:04:00 2000 (32336) Delivery exception: __int__
> > Oct 25 18:04:00 2000 (32336) Traceback (innermost last):
> >   File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/HandlerAPI.py", line 82, in 
do_pipeline
> >     func(mlist, msg, msgdata)
> >   File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/ToDigest.py", line 121, in process
> >     inject_digest(mlist, digestfile, topicsfile)
> >   File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/ToDigest.py", line 170, in 
inject_digest
> >     msg = digest.asMIME()
> >   File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/ToDigest.py", line 242, in asMIME
> >     return self.Present(mime=1)
> >   File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/ToDigest.py", line 279, in Present
> >     lines.append(self.__mlist.digest_header % self.TemplateRefs())
> > AttributeError: __int__
> > 
> > logs/digest is filling up with stuff like:
> > Oct 25 18:09:00 2000 (20560) Public-list v 16 - 2035 msgs, 22 recips (4 
mime, 18 text, 0 disabled)
> > Oct 25 18:09:00 2000 (20560) Public-list v 16 - 2036 msgs, 22 recips (4 
mime, 18 text, 0 disabled)
> > Oct 25 18:09:01 2000 (20560) Public-list v 16 - 2037 msgs, 22 recips (4 
mime, 18 text, 0 disabled)
> > Oct 25 18:10:01 2000 (1315) Public-list v 16 - 2038 msgs, 22 recips (4 mime, 
18 text, 0 disabled)
> > Oct 25 18:10:01 2000 (1315) Public-list v 16 - 2039 msgs, 22 recips (4 mime, 
18 text, 0 disabled)
> > Oct 25 18:10:01 2000 (1315) Public-list v 16 - 2040 msgs, 22 recips (4 mime, 
18 text, 0 disabled)
> > Oct 25 18:10:01 2000 (1315) Public-list v 16 - 2041 msgs, 22 recips (4 mime, 
18 text, 0 disabled)
> > 
> > logs/qrunner has stuff like:
> > Oct 25 16:17:02 2000 (30248) Could not acquire qrunner lock
> > Oct 25 16:18:02 2000 (7653) Could not acquire qrunner lock
> > Oct 25 16:19:01 2000 (14921) Could not acquire qrunner lock
> > Oct 25 16:20:01 2000 (24286) Could not acquire qrunner lock
> > Oct 25 16:21:01 2000 (19783) Could not acquire qrunner lock
> >   but I'm not sure it's related to the stuff in logs/digest.
> > 
> > lists/public-list/next-digest is filling up with many copies of a few 
messages.  Likewise,
> > lists/public-list/next-digest-topics is filling up with the same 4 topics in 
rotation.
> > 
> > Any ideas on what the problem might be?  Better yet, any ideas on the fix?
> > 
> > Please copy me on the reply.
> > 
> > Thanks,
> >   George Dinwiddie
> > 
> > 
> > -- 
> >  ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >   George Dinwiddie                                  gdinwiddie at min.net
> >   The gods do not deduct from man's allotted span those hours spent in
> >   sailing.                         NEW URL => http://www.Alberg30.org/
> >  ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > 
> > 
> > ------------------------------------------------------
> > Mailman-Users maillist  -  Mailman-Users at python.org
> > http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> > 
> 
> 
> -- 
>  ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>   George Dinwiddie                                  gdinwiddie at min.net
>   The gods do not deduct from man's allotted span those hours spent in
>   sailing.                         NEW URL => http://www.Alberg30.org/
>  ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users maillist  -  Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users





From rel at center7.com  Sat Oct 28 02:20:01 2000
From: rel at center7.com (Robert Lee)
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 18:20:01 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Greetings
Message-ID: <A3D18A7F0B2DD411AD1C00508BCF3E9E5EB55C@c7mail.center7.com>

I am attempting to get my new list up and functioning.  Everything was set
up as described in the INSTALL.  Things seem to be headed in the right
direction.  The /var/log/maillog shows:

Oct 27 17:11:52 host sendmail[74138]: e9S0BqP74138: from=<root at host.domain>,
size=277, class=0, nrcpts=1,
msgid=<Pine.BSF.4.21.0010271711470.74136-100000 at host.domain>, proto=ESMTP,
relay=root at localhost
Oct 27 17:11:53 host sendmail[74139]: e9S0BqP74138:
to="|/usr/local/mailman/mail/wrapper post leefam",
ctladdr=<leefam at leefam.org> (1/0), delay=00:00:01, xdelay=00:00:01,
mailer=prog, pri=30023, dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent

And the /usr/local/mailman/logs/error is empty.

My problem is that no messages are being delivered to the members of the
list.  When I looked at /usr/local/mailman/qfiles, I noticed that that's
where all of my emails were.  Why are they being queue'd instead of sent
out?

I appologize if this is a common problem, or even if it's a problem on my
part.  I'd love to RTFM if there is documentation that applies to this
scenario.  I have read the FAQ, and other docs I could see on list.org

Thanks ahead of time,

Robert




From mir at suse.com  Sat Oct 28 02:25:34 2000
From: mir at suse.com (Michael Radziej)
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 17:25:34 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Greetings
In-Reply-To: <A3D18A7F0B2DD411AD1C00508BCF3E9E5EB55C@c7mail.center7.com>; from rel@center7.com on Fri, Oct 27, 2000 at 06:20:01PM -0600
References: <A3D18A7F0B2DD411AD1C00508BCF3E9E5EB55C@c7mail.center7.com>
Message-ID: <20001027172534.V13782@suse.com>

On Fri, Oct 27, Robert Lee wrote:

> I am attempting to get my new list up and functioning.  Everything was set
> up as described in the INSTALL.  Things seem to be headed in the right
> direction.  The /var/log/maillog shows:
> 
> Oct 27 17:11:52 host sendmail[74138]: e9S0BqP74138: from=<root at host.domain>,
> size=277, class=0, nrcpts=1,
> msgid=<Pine.BSF.4.21.0010271711470.74136-100000 at host.domain>, proto=ESMTP,
> relay=root at localhost
> Oct 27 17:11:53 host sendmail[74139]: e9S0BqP74138:
> to="|/usr/local/mailman/mail/wrapper post leefam",
> ctladdr=<leefam at leefam.org> (1/0), delay=00:00:01, xdelay=00:00:01,
> mailer=prog, pri=30023, dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent
> 
> And the /usr/local/mailman/logs/error is empty.
> 
> My problem is that no messages are being delivered to the members of the
> list.  When I looked at /usr/local/mailman/qfiles, I noticed that that's
> where all of my emails were.  Why are they being queue'd instead of sent
> out?
> 
> I appologize if this is a common problem, or even if it's a problem on my
> part.  I'd love to RTFM if there is documentation that applies to this
> scenario.  I have read the FAQ, and other docs I could see on list.org

Chorus:

Have you installed the cron entries as indicated in INSTALL?


:-)


Michael-getting-used-to-this


-- 

=============================================================================
Michael Radziej                 - currently in Oakland -
SuSE GmbH, Interne EDV    Phone +1 510 628 3380 extension 5071
Michael.Radziej at suse.de   Cellular ("Handy") +1 49 1795977810
=============================================================================
                  reply goes to list | reply goes to sender
                  -------------------+---------------------
                    oaktech          |  oakland
                    profserv         |  users
                    custserv-talk    |  suna
                    supporters       |
                    talk             |   
                  -----------------------------------------
                       SuSE.com mailing list truth table
                   Not subject to modifications whatsoever.



From ashley at pcraft.com  Sat Oct 28 02:45:05 2000
From: ashley at pcraft.com (Ashley M. Kirchner)
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 18:45:05 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Greetings
References: <A3D18A7F0B2DD411AD1C00508BCF3E9E5EB55C@c7mail.center7.com> <20001027172534.V13782@suse.com>
Message-ID: <39FA2190.E4A100E4@pcraft.com>

Michael Radziej wrote:

> Have you installed the cron entries as indicated in INSTALL?
>
> Michael-getting-used-to-this

    The term 'RTFM' would have to be adjusted for you:

    RTFM : 'Reading-To-Facilitate' Michael

    :)

    AMK4

--
H | Hi, I'm currently out of my mind.  Please leave a message.  BEEEEP!
  |____________________________________________________________________
  ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  Ashley M. Kirchner <mailto:ashley at pcraft.com>   .   303.442.6410 x130
  Director of Internet Operations / SysAdmin    .     800.441.3873 x130
  Photo Craft Laboratories, Inc.             .        eFax 248.671.0909
  http://www.pcraft.com                  .         3550 Arapahoe Ave #6
  .................. .  .  .     .               Boulder, CO 80303, USA





From gossamer at tertius.net.au  Sat Oct 28 03:22:27 2000
From: gossamer at tertius.net.au (Bek Oberin)
Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 12:22:27 +1100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Feature request
Message-ID: <20001028122227.R4391@tertius.net.au>

Three things I'd love to see implemented:

Attachment stripping, for when stupid twits send images through
the list (Yup, I know about the size limiting, it'd still be a
nice feature by itself).

The ability to put members on moderation individually, as well as
putting the whole list on moderation.

Persistant cookies, so I don't have to log into the damm 
thing every time I start the browser.  I look after about a
million lists (okay, thirty-ish) and logging onto every list
every morning to process the bounces is a MAJOR pain.  This would
obviously be something to make optional, as it could be a
secrurity prob, but still ... it'd be nice to have the option.


Thanks to the developers for a GREAT program, BTW.  I just
upgraded from 1.1 to 2.whateveritis with NO problems at all.  I
was anticipating major nightmares and hiccups and it just dropped
in brilliantly.  I am VERY impressed!


bekj

-- 
: --Hacker-Neophile-Eclectic-Geek-Grrl-Queer-Disabled-Boychick--
: gossamer at tertius.net.au   http://www.tertius.net.au/~gossamer/
: When you reach the end of your rope, tie a knot in it and hang
: on.  -- Thomas Jefferson



From Dan.Mick at West.Sun.COM  Sat Oct 28 03:27:13 2000
From: Dan.Mick at West.Sun.COM (Dan Mick)
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 18:27:13 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Feature request
Message-ID: <200010280125.SAA06292@utopia.west.sun.com>

> Attachment stripping, for when stupid twits send images through
> the list (Yup, I know about the size limiting, it'd still be a
> nice feature by itself).

This is really really effective for me, added to
"hold posts with header..."

Content-type:.*multipart/.*
:.*text/html.*
:.*text/enriched.*
:.*text/x-vcard.*
Content-Disposition:.*attachment

I think I've seen 2 attachments get through in about 10000 messages.
And we have some idiots and some persistent attachment posters.
(it stops HTML attachments too.)





From chuqui at plaidworks.com  Sat Oct 28 03:30:52 2000
From: chuqui at plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach)
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 18:30:52 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Feature request
In-Reply-To: <20001028122227.R4391@tertius.net.au>
References: <20001028122227.R4391@tertius.net.au>
Message-ID: <p0433010bb61fdba1c294@[17.216.27.202]>

At 12:22 PM +1100 10/28/00, Bek Oberin wrote:

>Attachment stripping, for when stupid twits send images through
>the list (Yup, I know about the size limiting, it'd still be a
>nice feature by itself).

I use demime for that. it'd be nice to be able to define whether to 
allow mime parts and what mime parts to allow (or disallow).

<http://scifi.squawk.com/demime.html>

>The ability to put members on moderation individually, as well as
>putting the whole list on moderation.

you can already do that. privacy options page, "addreses always held 
for approval"


>Persistant cookies, so I don't have to log into the damm
>thing every time I start the browser.

we've played with this stuff, and I guess this might be an option. 
I'd *also* like it so that if I log in via the site password (as 
opposed to a list password) that I'm validated to the entire site. 
Right now, I have to log in iwth the site password to each list, 
which if I'm an admin run through everything to discard the spam, 
gets really tired...

>Thanks to the developers for a GREAT program, BTW.  I just
>upgraded from 1.1 to 2.whateveritis with NO problems at all.  I
>was anticipating major nightmares and hiccups and it just dropped
>in brilliantly.  I am VERY impressed!

I'm bringing my new server online as I type, and so far, it's been 
painless. If it ever finishes, I'll have finally retired majordomo...

-- 
Chuq Von Rospach - Plaidworks Consulting (mailto:chuqui at plaidworks.com)
Apple Mail List Gnome (mailto:chuq at apple.com)

Be just, and fear not.



From gdinwiddie at min.net  Sat Oct 28 03:57:33 2000
From: gdinwiddie at min.net (George Dinwiddie)
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 21:57:33 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] weird problems; a cry for help
In-Reply-To: <200010272303.QAA01744@utopia.west.sun.com> from "Dan Mick" at Oct 27, 0 04:04:45 pm
Message-ID: <200010280157.VAA23662@min.net>

Wow!  Many thanks for your analysis.  Not being a Python
programmer, I hadn't even thought about the header being
interpreted, which is silly on my part.

Thanks,
   George

> Dan Mick said:
> 
> Argh.
> 
> The problem is that George's digest header had the string '% d'
> in it, and the 'string-mod' operation was trying to treat that
> as an integer format field.  (the text was "10% discount").
> 
> Erk.  I think this is a Python bug; I think it should not
> treat '% d' the same as '%d'; but I'm having a hard time 
> discovering anything formally specifying the format of a
> 'printf-like string interpolation function of the % operator'
> in the Python documentation; any help appreciated.
> 
> But in any event, if anyone sees anything similar, suspect '%'
> characters in your header/footer text.
> 
> George, a workaround seems to be to change that to "10%% discount",
> but that only works out right if you *know* the '%' operator is
> going to be applied.  In this case, you know it is, so it should
> be safe.
> 
> But make no mistake: Python really blind-sided you on this one, IMO.
> 
> > I feel like I'm talking to myself. :-)  I guess that since no one has
> > responded, this must be too wacked out to diagnose.  Should I delete
> > the list and re-create it?  If I do that, is there any way to salvage
> > either the member list or the archived messages?
> > 
> > Anxious for a reponse,
> >   George
> > 
> > > George Dinwiddie said:
> > > 
> > > I'm a mailman newbie and hardly know where to begin.  I've got a
> > > couple of lists running at www.alberg30.org in a virtual hosting
> > > environment where mailman is shared by all the domains hosted on
> > > the machine.  Everything was hunky-dory until...
> > > 
> > > Well, first the ISP had some sort of crash.  Then they moved
> > > from RedHat 6.0 to 7.0.  Somewhere along the line (maybe t
> > > the same time) they installed a newer version (or versions)
> > > of mailman.  I know that it was beta 6 but is now 2.0rc1.
> > > 
> > > First, I had problems with the "welcome" message being sent
> > > with the "Reply-to" header pointing to the list, instead of
> > > the admin address.  Then all mail stopped.  They got one
> > > list working again, but the other, the most important one,
> > > is really bollixed.
> > > 
> > > logs/error is filling up with:
> > > Oct 25 18:04:00 2000 (32336) Delivery exception: __int__
> > > Oct 25 18:04:00 2000 (32336) Traceback (innermost last):
> > >   File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/HandlerAPI.py", line 82, in 
> do_pipeline
> > >     func(mlist, msg, msgdata)
> > >   File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/ToDigest.py", line 121, in process
> > >     inject_digest(mlist, digestfile, topicsfile)
> > >   File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/ToDigest.py", line 170, in 
> inject_digest
> > >     msg = digest.asMIME()
> > >   File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/ToDigest.py", line 242, in asMIME
> > >     return self.Present(mime=1)
> > >   File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/ToDigest.py", line 279, in Present
> > >     lines.append(self.__mlist.digest_header % self.TemplateRefs())
> > > AttributeError: __int__
> > > 
> > > logs/digest is filling up with stuff like:
> > > Oct 25 18:09:00 2000 (20560) Public-list v 16 - 2035 msgs, 22 recips (4 
> mime, 18 text, 0 disabled)
> > > Oct 25 18:09:00 2000 (20560) Public-list v 16 - 2036 msgs, 22 recips (4 
> mime, 18 text, 0 disabled)
> > > Oct 25 18:09:01 2000 (20560) Public-list v 16 - 2037 msgs, 22 recips (4 
> mime, 18 text, 0 disabled)
> > > Oct 25 18:10:01 2000 (1315) Public-list v 16 - 2038 msgs, 22 recips (4 mime, 
> 18 text, 0 disabled)
> > > Oct 25 18:10:01 2000 (1315) Public-list v 16 - 2039 msgs, 22 recips (4 mime, 
> 18 text, 0 disabled)
> > > Oct 25 18:10:01 2000 (1315) Public-list v 16 - 2040 msgs, 22 recips (4 mime, 
> 18 text, 0 disabled)
> > > Oct 25 18:10:01 2000 (1315) Public-list v 16 - 2041 msgs, 22 recips (4 mime, 
> 18 text, 0 disabled)
> > > 
> > > logs/qrunner has stuff like:
> > > Oct 25 16:17:02 2000 (30248) Could not acquire qrunner lock
> > > Oct 25 16:18:02 2000 (7653) Could not acquire qrunner lock
> > > Oct 25 16:19:01 2000 (14921) Could not acquire qrunner lock
> > > Oct 25 16:20:01 2000 (24286) Could not acquire qrunner lock
> > > Oct 25 16:21:01 2000 (19783) Could not acquire qrunner lock
> > >   but I'm not sure it's related to the stuff in logs/digest.
> > > 
> > > lists/public-list/next-digest is filling up with many copies of a few 
> messages.  Likewise,
> > > lists/public-list/next-digest-topics is filling up with the same 4 topics in 
> rotation.
> > > 
> > > Any ideas on what the problem might be?  Better yet, any ideas on the fix?
> > > 
> > > Please copy me on the reply.
> > > 
> > > Thanks,
> > >   George Dinwiddie
> > > 
> > > 
> > > -- 
> > >  ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >   George Dinwiddie                                  gdinwiddie at min.net
> > >   The gods do not deduct from man's allotted span those hours spent in
> > >   sailing.                         NEW URL => http://www.Alberg30.org/
> > >  ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > 
> > > 
> > > ------------------------------------------------------
> > > Mailman-Users maillist  -  Mailman-Users at python.org
> > > http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> > > 
> > 
> > 
> > -- 
> >  ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >   George Dinwiddie                                  gdinwiddie at min.net
> >   The gods do not deduct from man's allotted span those hours spent in
> >   sailing.                         NEW URL => http://www.Alberg30.org/
> >  ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > 
> > 
> > ------------------------------------------------------
> > Mailman-Users maillist  -  Mailman-Users at python.org
> > http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> 
> 


-- 
 ----------------------------------------------------------------------
  George Dinwiddie                                  gdinwiddie at min.net
  The gods do not deduct from man's allotted span those hours spent in
  sailing.                         NEW URL => http://www.Alberg30.org/
 ----------------------------------------------------------------------




From jwblist at olympus.net  Sat Oct 28 06:40:50 2000
From: jwblist at olympus.net (John W Baxter)
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 21:40:50 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Feature request
In-Reply-To: <p0433010bb61fdba1c294@[17.216.27.202]>
References: <20001028122227.R4391@tertius.net.au>
 <p0433010bb61fdba1c294@[17.216.27.202]>
Message-ID: <p05001900b620083595b5@[207.149.192.229]>

At 18:30 -0700 10/27/00, Chuq Von Rospach wrote:
>I'm bringing my new server online as I type, and so far, it's been
>painless. If it ever finishes, I'll have finally retired majordomo...

As a subscriber to some of the lists Chuq is referring to, I can say that
it so far appears that he has done his usual brilliant job with this
transition.  Chuq is talking about a large collection of lists, some of the
lists being very large and active.  And almost all are rather visible.

   --John (Chuq:  have a good weekend.  ;-) )
-- 
John Baxter   jwblist at olympus.net      Port Ludlow, WA, USA



From jwblist at olympus.net  Sat Oct 28 07:03:13 2000
From: jwblist at olympus.net (John W Baxter)
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 22:03:13 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] weird problems; a cry for help
In-Reply-To: <200010272303.QAA01744@utopia.west.sun.com>
References: <200010272303.QAA01744@utopia.west.sun.com>
Message-ID: <p05001901b6200c538d67@[207.149.192.229]>

>The problem is that George's digest header had the string '% d'
>in it, and the 'string-mod' operation was trying to treat that
>as an integer format field.  (the text was "10% discount").
>
>Erk.  I think this is a Python bug; I think it should not
>treat '% d' the same as '%d'; but I'm having a hard time
>discovering anything formally specifying the format of a
>'printf-like string interpolation function of the % operator'
>in the Python documentation; any help appreciated.

I don't think it's a bug in Python but see also below.

It's a degenerate case of  a "% 6d"  form of specifier, in which the space
indicates that the result is space filled and the 6 gives the field width.
(a 0 indicates zero fill):

>>> "10% 6discount" % 7
'10     7iscount'
>>> "10%06discount" % 18
'10000018iscount'
>>>

The above comes from Python 2.0 on Mac (for convenience)...results are the
same in Python 1.5.2 on Red Hat Linux 6.2.

*Perhaps* it's a bug (or more likely mis-design) that the degenerate case
is allowed, in that there will never be fill if there isn't a width stated.

And the %% solution is the correct one (in C and in Python).

Someone with better C skills than mine (which haven't been exercised in
about 7 years) could try the samples in C (of various flavors).

  --John


-- 
John Baxter   jwblist at olympus.net      Port Ludlow, WA, USA



From johnny at cathat.net  Sat Oct 28 07:39:52 2000
From: johnny at cathat.net (Johnny Fuerst)
Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 00:39:52 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] members cannot change their preferences
Message-ID: <20001028003952.A3545@cathat.net>

Hello,

I was wondering if anyone may know how to rsolve the following problem:

When at the http address for a user to change their settings, I can't save
changes I make, and I *do use the password that I have specified. And the
web site form will respond saying:

Macosx-users Results

You must supply a password to change options. 

Macosx-users list run by johnny at cathat.net

Thanks for any help that can be provided!

Sincerely,
Johnny

-- 
On Behalf Of:
Johnny Fuerst, Governor ................ governor at cathat.net
Opinions stated in this message are mine and mine alone, and
do not necessarily represent those of my ISP/employer!
.period.
------------------------------------------------------------
          'I Desire Compassion, and not a Sacrifice.'
                       'La Vida E Bella'

____________________________
Random Quote:
A student who changes the course of history is probably taking an exam.
johnny at cathat.net



From chuqui at plaidworks.com  Sat Oct 28 07:42:24 2000
From: chuqui at plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach)
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 22:42:24 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Feature request
In-Reply-To: <p05001900b620083595b5@[207.149.192.229]>
References: <20001028122227.R4391@tertius.net.au>
 <p0433010bb61fdba1c294@[17.216.27.202]>
 <p05001900b620083595b5@[207.149.192.229]>
Message-ID: <p04330100b620160762cb@[17.216.27.202]>

At 9:40 PM -0700 10/27/00, John W Baxter wrote:
>Chuq is talking about a large collection of lists, some of the
>lists being very large and active.  And almost all are rather visible.

For those wondering, it's www.lists.apple.com. It seems to be 
surviving the onslaught of loading a few tens of thousands of 
addresses into it and sending them a bunch of email pretty well.

>    --John (Chuq:  have a good weekend.  ;-) )

I'm gonna try. Been a long two weeks doing finish work and final prep.


>John Baxter   jwblist at olympus.net      Port Ludlow, WA, USA

heh -- of course, i'd rather be where you are (our family has a place 
in Paradise Bay...), if only because it means we'd be able to hit the 
Coho tomorrow for a quick run to Victoria...

To keep this on topic, though, today, I replaced an old AIX box iwth 
a new Solaris box, and replaced a majordomo server with one based on 
Mailman 2.0b6. It runs about 50 lists of up to 10K subscribers, and 
we had to keep the old system up and running until the moment of 
switchover, so I was limited in my ability to pre-load subscribers. 
The entire transfer (minus archives) took just under 12 hours, and 
seems to have gone over with minimal glitches. Mailman has worked 
wonderfully, even under the load of having 12 hours of pent up mail, 
welcome messages sent out to every user when i bulk-subscribed them, 
and initial messages sent out to all of the lists. I think that 
qualifies as a peak load....

And now, I'm exhausted... But we hit the dates we had to hit, and 
it's one less AIX box I have to deal with (hopefully, the last one 
dies next week..)

-- 
Chuq Von Rospach - Plaidworks Consulting (mailto:chuqui at plaidworks.com)
Apple Mail List Gnome (mailto:chuq at apple.com)

Be just, and fear not.



From chuqui at plaidworks.com  Sat Oct 28 07:46:09 2000
From: chuqui at plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach)
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 22:46:09 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] members cannot change their preferences
In-Reply-To: <20001028003952.A3545@cathat.net>
References: <20001028003952.A3545@cathat.net>
Message-ID: <p04330102b6201813ddb0@[209.239.169.197]>

At 12:39 AM -0500 10/28/00, Johnny Fuerst wrote:
>Hello,
>
>I was wondering if anyone may know how to rsolve the following problem:



>Macosx-users Results

I've written Johhny privately, since it's my server he's dealing with.

it does bring up an issue I've been meaning to bring up, which is 
Mailman isn't all that good at logging what it's trying to do, 
especially with error cases on the web site, which makes debugging 
user problems trying to do something like this a real problem. I've 
run into a few cases of what seem to be user error or confusion, but 
I've had real problems figuring them out because Mailman doesn't give 
me any data and I can't stand behind the person's shoulder... There 
really needs to be a way to turn on server transcripts at some 
point...

chuq
-- 
Chuq Von Rospach - Plaidworks Consulting (mailto:chuqui at plaidworks.com)
Apple Mail List Gnome (mailto:chuq at apple.com)

Be just, and fear not.



From tim at maths.tcd.ie  Sat Oct 28 16:58:01 2000
From: tim at maths.tcd.ie (tim at maths.tcd.ie)
Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 15:58:01 +0100 (BST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archiving failure
Message-ID: <200010281558.aa90788@boole.maths.tcd.ie>

Our mailman system (running under FreeBSD) states (untruly) that every archives is empty,
because -- I think -- it fails to write out the required index.html files.

We get this (repeatedly) in ~mailman/logs/error

===============================================
Oct 28 15:40:07 2000 (47279) Archive file access failure:
	/local/lib/mailman/archives/private/sf.mbox/sf.mbox (0, 'Error')
Oct 28 15:40:07 2000 (47279) Delivery exception: (0, 'Error')
Oct 28 15:40:07 2000 (47279) Traceback (innermost last):
  File "/local/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/HandlerAPI.py", line 82, in do_pipeline
    func(mlist, msg, msgdata)
  File "/local/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/ToArchive.py", line 47, in process
    mlist.ArchiveMail(msg, msgdata)
  File "/local/lib/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/Archiver.py", line 189, in ArchiveMail
    self.__archive_to_mbox(msg)
  File "/local/lib/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/Archiver.py", line 160, in __archive_to_mbox
    mbox.AppendMessage(post)
  File "/local/lib/mailman/Mailman/Mailbox.py", line 41, in AppendMessage
    self.fp.seek(-1, 2)
IOError: (0, 'Error')
===============================================

Looking at ~mailman/Mailman/Mailbox.py the offending line 
seems to be the seek(-1,2) in the following,
which appears to be an (odd) way of testing if the file is empty.

===============================================
    # msg should be an rfc822 message or a subclass.
    def AppendMessage(self, msg):
	# Check the last character of the file and write a newline if it isn't
	# a newline (but not at the beginning of an empty file.
        try:
            self.fp.seek(-1, 2)
        except IOError, e:
            if e.errno <> errno.EINVAL: raise
            # the file must be empty
        else:
            if self.fp.read(1) <> '\n':
                self.fp.write('\n')
        # seek to the last char of the mailbox
        self.fp.seek(1, 2)
===============================================

I don't know anything about python --
maybe appearing in logs/error is not that bad?

Any suggestions of advice gratefully received.





From sally at sduros.com  Sat Oct 28 20:56:18 2000
From: sally at sduros.com (Sally Duros)
Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 13:56:18 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] archives
Message-ID: <v04220803b620d13d0d77@[24.148.4.228]>

Hello - I am not a techie, but I am using MailMan. I have been trying 
to set things up on my list-serve so that members can view the 
archives. I would also like to be able to collect actual names of 
individuals using the list - I am collecting this info for a reunion. 
I donb't know how to do either of these things. I have perused FAQs 
and archives manual  and am still lost. Any advice? Should I move to 
a different program like Topica to get this going?
______________________________________________________________

Sally Duros
Executive Communication
(vox) 773. 327. 9377
(fax) 773. 327. 9395

You can view
my qualifications at
  http://www.SDuros.com



From Dan.Mick at west.sun.com  Sat Oct 28 21:05:41 2000
From: Dan.Mick at west.sun.com (Dan Mick)
Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 12:05:41 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archiving failure
References: <200010281558.aa90788@boole.maths.tcd.ie>
Message-ID: <39FB2385.E4655335@west.sun.com>


tim at maths.tcd.ie wrote:
> 
> Our mailman system (running under FreeBSD) states (untruly) that every archives is empty,
> because -- I think -- it fails to write out the required index.html files.
> 
> We get this (repeatedly) in ~mailman/logs/error
> 
> ===============================================
> Oct 28 15:40:07 2000 (47279) Archive file access failure:
>         /local/lib/mailman/archives/private/sf.mbox/sf.mbox (0, 'Error')
> Oct 28 15:40:07 2000 (47279) Delivery exception: (0, 'Error')
> Oct 28 15:40:07 2000 (47279) Traceback (innermost last):
>   File "/local/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/HandlerAPI.py", line 82, in do_pipeline
>     func(mlist, msg, msgdata)
>   File "/local/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/ToArchive.py", line 47, in process
>     mlist.ArchiveMail(msg, msgdata)
>   File "/local/lib/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/Archiver.py", line 189, in ArchiveMail
>     self.__archive_to_mbox(msg)
>   File "/local/lib/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/Archiver.py", line 160, in __archive_to_mbox
>     mbox.AppendMessage(post)
>   File "/local/lib/mailman/Mailman/Mailbox.py", line 41, in AppendMessage
>     self.fp.seek(-1, 2)
> IOError: (0, 'Error')
> ===============================================

Error number 0?  That's an odd one...any way of using, what is it, ktrace,
to find out what that seek call is really returning to Python?
 
> Looking at ~mailman/Mailman/Mailbox.py the offending line
> seems to be the seek(-1,2) in the following,
> which appears to be an (odd) way of testing if the file is empty.

Well, I think it's a way of seeking the file backward one character; iff it
fails, the file must have been empty.
 
> ===============================================
>     # msg should be an rfc822 message or a subclass.
>     def AppendMessage(self, msg):
>         # Check the last character of the file and write a newline if it isn't
>         # a newline (but not at the beginning of an empty file.
>         try:
>             self.fp.seek(-1, 2)
>         except IOError, e:
>             if e.errno <> errno.EINVAL: raise
>             # the file must be empty

This is an out-of-date version of Mailbox.py; upgrade to RC1.  The issue's
been resolved.

>         else:
>             if self.fp.read(1) <> '\n':
>                 self.fp.write('\n')
>         # seek to the last char of the mailbox
>         self.fp.seek(1, 2)
> ===============================================
> 
> I don't know anything about python --
> maybe appearing in logs/error is not that bad?
> 
> Any suggestions of advice gratefully received.
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users maillist  -  Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users



From techgrrl at beeze.com  Sat Oct 28 21:46:14 2000
From: techgrrl at beeze.com (Sarah K. Miller)
Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 12:46:14 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Adding Messages to the Archives
Message-ID: <00d001c04117$bd338f60$1401a8c0@sarah>

We are transitioning several lists from Egroups and other places to one
centralized location using Mailman. Is there a way to add additional
messages to the archives without having to send them to the list itself?

 -- Sarah





From kbandy at megsinet.net  Sun Oct 29 03:59:52 2000
From: kbandy at megsinet.net (Ken Bandy)
Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 21:59:52 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can't go un-moderated
Message-ID: <39FB92A8.C0CC1D6F@megsinet.net>

Hi, I am trying to use Mailman, version 2.0, beta 6.  This is installed
on the server our web site is on.  I am trying to set a list up to be
un-moderated, however I can't.  On the "Privacy Options" page, I have
checked the "no" button on the question asking if posts must be approved
by an administrator and submitted the change, however when I post to the
list, the message is put in que with this message being sent to the
poster:

"Your mail to 'Test' with the subject
blah-blah
Is being held until the list moderator can review it for approval.

The reason it is being held:

    Message has implicit destination

Either the message will get posted to the list, or you will receive
notification of the moderator's decision."

Anyone have any clues as to how I can change this to an un-moderated
list, or is there a problem with my server set up?

Thanks.

--
Ken Bandy
IATSE Local 30
Indianapolis, IN
http://iatse30.org
webmaster at iatse30.org





From xiao.bing at oztime.com  Sun Oct 29 04:52:11 2000
From: xiao.bing at oztime.com (Xiao Bing)
Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 11:52:11 +0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] I can't get "Welcom" msg.
Message-ID: <00f601c0415b$9dffcbb0$eb00a8c0@prc.oztime.com>

I have installed Mailman in my RedHat6.2 OS.I sent a subscription to the maillist with a testing email account.
Then I receive a msg like "Listname-- confirmation of subscription -- request 770815".
I reply the msg according to it's confirmation rules.
But I can't get a response msg like "Welcome to the ListName mailing list!"
What 's the matter?Anyone can help me?
                                                            Jack



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From xiao.bing at oztime.com  Sun Oct 29 07:49:40 2000
From: xiao.bing at oztime.com (Xiao Bing)
Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 14:49:40 +0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] I can't get subscription response mail.
Message-ID: <005001c04174$6ab5e050$eb00a8c0@prc.oztime.com>

I have installed a mailman system on RedHat6.2 OS.
I want to test it.So I sent a subscription request to it.
Then I receive a msg like "Listname-- confirmation of subscription -- request 770815".
I reply the msg according to it's confirmation rules.
But I received a response msg like this:
____________________________________________________
This is the Postfix program at host dev.oztime.com.

I'm sorry to have to inform you that the message returned
below could not be delivered to one or more destinations.

For further assistance, please contact <postmaster at dev_oztime.com>

If you do so, please include this problem report. You can
delete your own text from the message returned below.

The Postfix program

<oztime_tech-request at dev.oztime.com>: Command died with status 2:
    "/home/mailman/mail/wrapper mailcmd oztime_tech". Command output: Failure
    to exec script. WANTED gid 500, GOT gid 99.  (Reconfigure to take 99?)
______________________________________________________
I have reconfigured mailman since I have read some advice from install manual.
 % python -c'import os; print os.getgid()' 
->I got user "mailman"'s gid(500). 
This should print out the group id that mailman should
 be configured to expect when the mail wrapper programs
 are run.  Call it "thegid".  Rebuild mailman with
 % ./configure --with-mail-gid=thegid
->I thegid should be user "mailman"'s gid(500).
->99 is nobody.
But still no use.What 's the reason?Who can help me?
                                                            Jack
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From roryt at hol.gr  Sun Oct 29 16:57:40 2000
From: roryt at hol.gr (I.Ioannou)
Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 17:57:40 +0200 (EET)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mime in subject ... more=?us-ascii?Q?__=C4=C5=D6=E4=E5=F6?=
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0010052036590.23771-100000@itu.st.jyu.fi>
Message-ID: <XFMail.001029175740.roryt@hol.gr>

On 05-Oct-00 Seppo Kallio wrote:
> 
> Any European users? Hallo? Do you have this problem solved?
> 
I didn't see any solution for this (sorry if I'm missing
something) so I did a litle debuging on pipermail.

This small hack (fix ?) for pipemail.py, 
hope fixes things (v 2.0.rc1) 
(I don't know python at all but for me it is working)

I.Ioannou <roryt at hol.gr>
-------------- next part --------------
--- pipermail.py.org    Fri Oct 20 09:18:11 2000
+++ pipermail.py        Sun Oct 29 16:42:55 2000
@@ -7,6 +7,8 @@
 import string
 import time

+from Mailman import EncWord
+
 try:
     import cPickle
     pickle = cPickle
@@ -558,8 +560,16 @@

             author = fixAuthor(article.author)
             subject = string.lower(article.subject)
-
-            article.parentID = parentID = self.get_parent_info(arch, article)
+
+           # decode the mime subjects
+           try:
+                   s, c = EncWord.decode(subject)
+           except ValueError:
+                   s = subject
+
+           subject = s
+
+           article.parentID = parentID = self.get_parent_info(arch, article)
             if parentID:
                 parent = self.database.getArticle(arch, parentID)
                 article.threadKey = parent.threadKey + article.date + '-'      
  

From Dan.Mick at west.sun.com  Sun Oct 29 22:09:45 2000
From: Dan.Mick at west.sun.com (Dan Mick)
Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 13:09:45 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Adding Messages to the Archives
References: <00d001c04117$bd338f60$1401a8c0@sarah>
Message-ID: <39FC9219.3C44F614@west.sun.com>

'arch' is there to rebuild the archives from an mbox file, so if you can get them
tacked onto the mbox file, it should be workable.

"Sarah K. Miller" wrote:
> 
> We are transitioning several lists from Egroups and other places to one
> centralized location using Mailman. Is there a way to add additional
> messages to the archives without having to send them to the list itself?
> 
>  -- Sarah
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users maillist  -  Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users



From kbandy at megsinet.net  Sun Oct 29 22:36:35 2000
From: kbandy at megsinet.net (Ken Bandy)
Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 16:36:35 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can't go un-moderated
References: <39FB92A8.C0CC1D6F@megsinet.net> <39FC92A6.C5DF494C@west.sun.com>
Message-ID: <39FC9863.8FE45995@megsinet.net>

Gee, Dan, I dunno.  What do you think it means when I say that I sent it "To:" the list
as named?  And what do you think I mean when I say I don't want to open my list up to
spammers?  I didn't know this was a riddle list.

Dan Mick wrote:

> Ken Bandy wrote:
> >
> > Hi, I am trying to use Mailman, version 2.0, beta 6.  This is installed
> > on the server our web site is on.  I am trying to set a list up to be
> > un-moderated, however I can't.  On the "Privacy Options" page, I have
> > checked the "no" button on the question asking if posts must be approved
> > by an administrator and submitted the change, however when I post to the
> > list, the message is put in que with this message being sent to the
> > poster:
> >
> > "Your mail to 'Test' with the subject
> > blah-blah
> > Is being held until the list moderator can review it for approval.
> >
> > The reason it is being held:
> >
> >     Message has implicit destination
>
> This is a huge clue here.  What do you think it means about the message
> you sent?
>
> What do you think the two options below "Must posts be approved by an administrator"
> control?
>
> >
> > Either the message will get posted to the list, or you will receive
> > notification of the moderator's decision."
> >
> > Anyone have any clues as to how I can change this to an un-moderated
> > list, or is there a problem with my server set up?
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> > --
> > Ken Bandy
> > IATSE Local 30
> > Indianapolis, IN
> > http://iatse30.org
> > webmaster at iatse30.org
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------
> > Mailman-Users maillist  -  Mailman-Users at python.org
> > http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users

--
Ken Bandy
IATSE Local 30
Indianapolis, IN
http://iatse30.org
webmaster at iatse30.org





From virginia at texterity.com  Sun Oct 29 23:22:29 2000
From: virginia at texterity.com (Virginia Beauregard)
Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 17:22:29 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Adding Messages to the Archives
In-Reply-To: <00d001c04117$bd338f60$1401a8c0@sarah>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10010291718430.22733-100000@underdog.texterity.com>

On Sat, 28 Oct 2000, Sarah K. Miller wrote:

> We are transitioning several lists from Egroups and other places to one
> centralized location using Mailman. Is there a way to add additional
> messages to the archives without having to send them to the list itself?

Investigate the ~/bin/arch command.  You can just adjust the .mbox file
to have the old messages included in it and then rerun the archiver.

--
Virginia J. Beauregard                            virginia at texterity.com
UNIX Systems and Network Administrator                   Texterity, Inc.





From virginia at texterity.com  Sun Oct 29 23:26:59 2000
From: virginia at texterity.com (Virginia Beauregard)
Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 17:26:59 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can't go un-moderated
In-Reply-To: <39FB92A8.C0CC1D6F@megsinet.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10010291724180.22733-100000@underdog.texterity.com>

On Sat, 28 Oct 2000, Ken Bandy wrote:

> The reason it is being held:
> 
>     Message has implicit destination

This message is actually being caught because the following option from
the 'Privacy Options' section:

  Must posts have list named in destination (to, cc) field (or be among
  the acceptable alias names, specified below)?

Are you sending mail to the list in a Bcc: or under an alias?

--
Virginia J. Beauregard                            virginia at texterity.com
UNIX Systems and Network Administrator                   Texterity, Inc.





From jsmoriss at jsm-mv.dyndns.org  Mon Oct 30 01:59:44 2000
From: jsmoriss at jsm-mv.dyndns.org (Jean-Sebastien Morisset)
Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 19:59:44 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Renaming mailing lists...
Message-ID: <20001029195944.B26569@marvin.homeip.net>

Is there a way to rename a mailing list?

Thanks,
js.
-- 
Jean-Sebastien Morisset, Sr. UNIX Admin <jsmoriss at jsm-mv.dyndns.org>
Personal Homepage <http://www.jsmoriss.dyndns.org/> 
UNIX, Internet, Homebrewing, Cigars, PCS, CP2020 and other Fun Stuff...
This is Linux Country. On a quiet night you can hear Windows NT reboot!



From kbandy at megsinet.net  Mon Oct 30 03:12:38 2000
From: kbandy at megsinet.net (Ken Bandy)
Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 21:12:38 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can't go un-moderated
References: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10010291724180.22733-100000@underdog.texterity.com>
Message-ID: <39FCD916.2AC5E052@megsinet.net>

No, I am sending it to the list in the "To:" field and under the subscribed
name.

Virginia Beauregard wrote:

> On Sat, 28 Oct 2000, Ken Bandy wrote:
>
> > The reason it is being held:
> >
> >     Message has implicit destination
>
> This message is actually being caught because the following option from
> the 'Privacy Options' section:
>
>   Must posts have list named in destination (to, cc) field (or be among
>   the acceptable alias names, specified below)?
>
> Are you sending mail to the list in a Bcc: or under an alias?
>
> --
> Virginia J. Beauregard                            virginia at texterity.com
> UNIX Systems and Network Administrator                   Texterity, Inc.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users maillist  -  Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users

--
Ken Bandy
IATSE Local 30
Indianapolis, IN
http://iatse30.org
webmaster at iatse30.org





From bob at nleaudio.com  Mon Oct 30 03:14:57 2000
From: bob at nleaudio.com (Bob Puff@NLE)
Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 21:14:57 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can't go un-moderated
References: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10010291724180.22733-100000@underdog.texterity.com>
Message-ID: <39FCD9A1.42A49C41@nleaudio.com>

I have an unmoderated list, but have mail coming to the list via a redirect.  Because Mailman doesn't think it is the recipient, it waits for my approval.  How can I disable this operation?

Bob



From bob at nleaudio.com  Mon Oct 30 03:35:54 2000
From: bob at nleaudio.com (Bob Puff@NLE)
Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 21:35:54 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: RC1 Seems to work but incoming mails are ignored
References: <20001027080601.79D951CE9C@dinsdale.python.org> <20001027131946.G13782@suse.com>
Message-ID: <39FCDE8A.19203BC4@nleaudio.com>

I did the crontab thing, but I don't see this added into my actual /etc/crontab file.  Will the cron function work when I have to reboot my system?

Bob



From mir at suse.com  Mon Oct 30 04:00:14 2000
From: mir at suse.com (Michael Radziej)
Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 19:00:14 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: RC1 Seems to work but incoming mails are ignored
In-Reply-To: <39FCDE8A.19203BC4@nleaudio.com>; from bob@nleaudio.com on Sun, Oct 29, 2000 at 09:35:54PM -0500
References: <20001027080601.79D951CE9C@dinsdale.python.org> <20001027131946.G13782@suse.com> <39FCDE8A.19203BC4@nleaudio.com>
Message-ID: <20001029190014.A11417@suse.com>

On Sun, Oct 29, Bob Puff at NLE wrote:

> I did the crontab thing, but I don't see this added into my actual /etc/crontab file.  Will the cron function work when I have to reboot my system?

These crontab entries will not show up in /etc/crontab, that's intended.
So, your mail should now go out. Have a look at man cron. 

Cheers,

Michael


-- 

=============================================================================
Michael Radziej                 - currently in Oakland -
SuSE GmbH, Interne EDV    Phone +1 510 628 3380 extension 5071
Michael.Radziej at suse.de   Cellular ("Handy") +1 49 1795977810
=============================================================================
                  reply goes to list | reply goes to sender
                  -------------------+---------------------
                    oaktech          |  oakland
                    profserv         |  users
                    custserv-talk    |  suna
                    supporters       |
                    talk             |   
                  -----------------------------------------
                       SuSE.com mailing list truth table
                   Not subject to modifications whatsoever.



From mir at suse.com  Mon Oct 30 04:18:26 2000
From: mir at suse.com (Michael Radziej)
Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 19:18:26 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] I can't get subscription response mail.
In-Reply-To: <005001c04174$6ab5e050$eb00a8c0@prc.oztime.com>; from xiao.bing@oztime.com on Sun, Oct 29, 2000 at 02:49:40PM +0800
References: <005001c04174$6ab5e050$eb00a8c0@prc.oztime.com>
Message-ID: <20001029191634.B11417@suse.com>

On Sun, Oct 29, Xiao Bing wrote:

> <oztime_tech-request at dev.oztime.com>: Command died with status 2:
>     "/home/mailman/mail/wrapper mailcmd oztime_tech". Command output: Failure
>     to exec script. WANTED gid 500, GOT gid 99.  (Reconfigure to take 99?)
> ______________________________________________________
> I have reconfigured mailman since I have read some advice from install manual.
>  % python -c'import os; print os.getgid()' 
> ->I got user "mailman"'s gid(500). 
> This should print out the group id that mailman should
>  be configured to expect when the mail wrapper programs
>  are run.  Call it "thegid".  Rebuild mailman with
>  % ./configure --with-mail-gid=thegid
> ->I thegid should be user "mailman"'s gid(500).
> ->99 is nobody.
> But still no use.What 's the reason?Who can help me?

First, note that your gid of 99 for nobody is strange ...
usually it's something like 65534, group nogroup.

Postfix calls the mailman scripts as user nobody. That's why
you have to use nobody's gid for the configure options.

I actually found this error message very helpful. It explains exactly
what's happening and what you should do :-)


Does that help?

Amused,

Michael-reads-the-error-messages-for-you




-- 

=============================================================================
Michael Radziej                 - currently in Oakland -
SuSE GmbH, Interne EDV    Phone +1 510 628 3380 extension 5071
Michael.Radziej at suse.de   Cellular ("Handy") +1 49 1795977810
=============================================================================
                  reply goes to list | reply goes to sender
                  -------------------+---------------------
                    oaktech          |  oakland
                    profserv         |  users
                    custserv-talk    |  suna
                    supporters       |
                    talk             |   
                  -----------------------------------------
                       SuSE.com mailing list truth table
                   Not subject to modifications whatsoever.



From strobel at hochfranken-online.de  Mon Oct 30 12:46:24 2000
From: strobel at hochfranken-online.de (Rainer Strobel)
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 11:46:24 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Sendmail says "Data format error"
Message-ID: <200010301044.e9UAipp28974@ds1.hochfranken-online.de>

Hi
Anybody who knows what's wrong when sendmail says: "DSN:Data format 
error" while mailman is trying to  deliver the mail to the 
list-members ?

So long

Rainer Strobel



From strobel at hochfranken-online.de  Mon Oct 30 12:53:09 2000
From: strobel at hochfranken-online.de (Rainer Strobel)
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 11:53:09 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] sendmail says "Data format error"
Message-ID: <200010301051.e9UApap29111@ds1.hochfranken-online.de>

Hi
Anybody who knows what's wrong when sendmail says: "DSN: Data format 
error" while mailman is trying to deliver a mail to the list-members 
?


Thanx 

Rainer



From chuqui at plaidworks.com  Mon Oct 30 16:03:36 2000
From: chuqui at plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach)
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 07:03:36 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] sendmail says "Data format error"
In-Reply-To: <200010301051.e9UApap29111@ds1.hochfranken-online.de>
References: <200010301051.e9UApap29111@ds1.hochfranken-online.de>
Message-ID: <p0433010ab6233e21393c@[209.239.169.197]>

At 11:53 AM +0000 10/30/00, Rainer Strobel wrote:

>Anybody who knows what's wrong when sendmail says: "DSN: Data format
>error" while mailman is trying to deliver a mail to the list-members
>?

At what point is this happening? To everyone? Certain users?

-- 
Chuq Von Rospach - Plaidworks Consulting (mailto:chuqui at plaidworks.com)
Apple Mail List Gnome (mailto:chuq at apple.com)

Be just, and fear not.



From barry at wooz.org  Mon Oct 30 17:24:57 2000
From: barry at wooz.org (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 11:24:57 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] forwarded message from Guido van Rossum
Message-ID: <14845.41177.597122.785738@anthem.concentric.net>

An embedded message was scrubbed...
From: Guido van Rossum <guido at python.org>
Subject: [Python-Dev] PythonLabs Team Moves to Digital Creations
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 20:42:42 -0500
Size: 4258
Url: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20001030/c42340a2/attachment.mht 

From mark at chaos.x-philes.com  Mon Oct 30 19:23:59 2000
From: mark at chaos.x-philes.com (Mark Carroll)
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 13:23:59 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Different web and mail host names
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0010301320460.1610-100000@niagara.nonet>

Is there an easy way to set things so that mailman offers one host name in
web URLs, and another in e-mail addresses? It seems to use the same for
both at the moment.

-- Mark




From donald.pine at apbnews.com  Mon Oct 30 19:41:07 2000
From: donald.pine at apbnews.com (Donald Pine)
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 13:41:07 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman basic questions
Message-ID: <C3BE21F8A765D3118B5A00902798C25C01CB6564@NYSE>

	Can someone answer the following basic questions? (I couldn't find
them in admin manual.) (Note: I am new to list management.)

	Can Mailman do "announcement" only emails?
	Can Mailman use an existing Oracle database?
	Can Mailman send both text and html emails?

	Tnx for any help. 

Sincerely,
Donald W. Pine
Manager, News Operations

APBnews.com - Crime, Justice, Safety (sm)
65 Broadway, 17th Floor
New York, NY  10006-2503

PHONE:  212-430-6024
FAX:       212-658-9492
E-MAIL:  Donald.Pine at APBnews.com





From barry at wooz.org  Mon Oct 30 19:42:28 2000
From: barry at wooz.org (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 13:42:28 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] weird problems; a cry for help
References: <200010272303.QAA01744@utopia.west.sun.com>
	<200010280157.VAA23662@min.net>
Message-ID: <14845.49428.581269.616682@anthem.concentric.net>

> Erk.  I think this is a Python bug; I think it should not
> treat '% d' the same as '%d'; but I'm having a hard time 
> discovering anything formally specifying the format of a
> 'printf-like string interpolation function of the % operator'
> in the Python documentation; any help appreciated.

http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/typesseq-strings.html

But I agree, this behavior surprised even me!  But in fact, the
documentation says the % operator mirrors C's printf formats and "% d"
is a legal format (it means precede positive values with a blank).

So it's surprising, but intended behavior.

-Barry



From barry at wooz.org  Mon Oct 30 19:43:17 2000
From: barry at wooz.org (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 13:43:17 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] weird problems; a cry for help
References: <200010272303.QAA01744@utopia.west.sun.com>
	<p05001901b6200c538d67@[207.149.192.229]>
Message-ID: <14845.49477.967099.91463@anthem.concentric.net>

>>>>> "JWB" == John W Baxter <jwblist at olympus.net> writes:

    JWB> Someone with better C skills than mine (which haven't been
    JWB> exercised in about 7 years) could try the samples in C (of
    JWB> various flavors).

-------------------- snip snip --------------------
#include <stdio.h>

int main()
{
    printf("% d\n", 10);
    return 0;
}
-------------------- snip snip --------------------
@anthem[[[/tmp:1037]]]% ./a.out
 10
-------------------- snip snip --------------------

-Barry



From leo at dicea.unifi.it  Mon Oct 30 19:50:12 2000
From: leo at dicea.unifi.it (Leonardo Boselli)
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 19:50:12 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman basic questions
In-Reply-To: <C3BE21F8A765D3118B5A00902798C25C01CB6564@NYSE>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0010301948420.26195-100000@dipolo.dicea.unifi.it>

On Mon, 30 Oct 2000, Donald Pine wrote:
> 	Can Mailman do "announcement" only emails?
Yes, just set authority to post to only one people.
> 	Can Mailman use an existing Oracle database?
I do not know ... please some one tell us
> 	Can Mailman send both text and html emails?
Please tell uss how to avoit that plague (currently it does !)
> 
> 	Tnx for any help. 
Me too (see #3)





From chuqui at plaidworks.com  Mon Oct 30 19:50:20 2000
From: chuqui at plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach)
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 10:50:20 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman basic questions
In-Reply-To: <C3BE21F8A765D3118B5A00902798C25C01CB6564@NYSE>
References: <C3BE21F8A765D3118B5A00902798C25C01CB6564@NYSE>
Message-ID: <p04330102b62373553e8d@[17.216.27.202]>

At 1:41 PM -0500 10/30/00, Donald Pine wrote:

>	Can Mailman do "announcement" only emails?

yes.

>	Can Mailman use an existing Oracle database?

no -- you'll need to write code to interface the two.

>	Can Mailman send both text and html emails?


yes.
-- 
Chuq Von Rospach - Plaidworks Consulting (mailto:chuqui at plaidworks.com)
Apple Mail List Gnome (mailto:chuq at apple.com)

Be just, and fear not.



From chuqui at plaidworks.com  Mon Oct 30 19:51:24 2000
From: chuqui at plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach)
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 10:51:24 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Different web and mail host names
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0010301320460.1610-100000@niagara.nonet>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0010301320460.1610-100000@niagara.nonet>
Message-ID: <p04330103b623736f44d3@[17.216.27.202]>

At 1:23 PM -0500 10/30/00, Mark Carroll wrote:
>Is there an easy way to set things so that mailman offers one host name in
>web URLs, and another in e-mail addresses? It seems to use the same for
>both at the moment.

Stay tuned. This is something I noticed on my new server, and I think 
I have a solution (actually, I have two solutions, but one is elegant 
if it works).

will report back as soon as I have a chance to see if it works.

-- 
Chuq Von Rospach - Plaidworks Consulting (mailto:chuqui at plaidworks.com)
Apple Mail List Gnome (mailto:chuq at apple.com)

Be just, and fear not.



From chuqui at plaidworks.com  Mon Oct 30 19:52:31 2000
From: chuqui at plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach)
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 10:52:31 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] weird problems; a cry for help
In-Reply-To: <14845.49428.581269.616682@anthem.concentric.net>
References: <200010272303.QAA01744@utopia.west.sun.com>
 <200010280157.VAA23662@min.net>
 <14845.49428.581269.616682@anthem.concentric.net>
Message-ID: <p04330104b62373d65ce2@[17.216.27.202]>

At 1:42 PM -0500 10/30/00, Barry A. Warsaw wrote:

>So it's surprising, but intended behavior.

it probably ought to be noted in the documentation somewhere, because 
otherwise, it'll drive the few who hit it crazy.

-- 
Chuq Von Rospach - Plaidworks Consulting (mailto:chuqui at plaidworks.com)
Apple Mail List Gnome (mailto:chuq at apple.com)

Be just, and fear not.



From barry at wooz.org  Mon Oct 30 21:45:28 2000
From: barry at wooz.org (barry at wooz.org)
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 15:45:28 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] weird problems; a cry for help
References: <200010272303.QAA01744@utopia.west.sun.com>
	<200010280157.VAA23662@min.net>
	<14845.49428.581269.616682@anthem.concentric.net>
	<p04330104b62373d65ce2@[17.216.27.202]>
Message-ID: <14845.56808.702353.470232@anthem.concentric.net>

>>>>> "CVR" == Chuq Von Rospach <chuqui at plaidworks.com> writes:

    >> So it's surprising, but intended behavior.

    CVR> it probably ought to be noted in the documentation somewhere,
    CVR> because otherwise, it'll drive the few who hit it crazy.

Good idea.  I've added a link to Python's string formatting rules

    http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/typesseq-strings.html

to templates/headfoot.html so it'll show up in the details page for
msg_footer, digest_footer, etc.

-Barry



From chuqui at plaidworks.com  Mon Oct 30 22:36:48 2000
From: chuqui at plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach)
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 13:36:48 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Different web and mail host names
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0010301320460.1610-100000@niagara.nonet>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0010301320460.1610-100000@niagara.nonet>
Message-ID: <p0433010fb6239a296178@[17.216.27.202]>

At 1:23 PM -0500 10/30/00, Mark Carroll wrote:
>Is there an easy way to set things so that mailman offers one host name in
>web URLs, and another in e-mail addresses? It seems to use the same for
>both at the moment.

okay, finally had a chance to look at this. Turns out it's simple.

On the admin/<listname> page,

set "hostname this list prefers" to foo.com

set "Base URL .." to http://www.foo.com/mailman/

that should take care of it.

chuq

-- 
Chuq Von Rospach - Plaidworks Consulting (mailto:chuqui at plaidworks.com)
Apple Mail List Gnome (mailto:chuq at apple.com)

Be just, and fear not.



From natea at graphon.com  Mon Oct 30 22:49:33 2000
From: natea at graphon.com (Nate Amsden)
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 13:49:33 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Message has implicit destination - ???
Message-ID: <39FDECED.5787E010@graphon.com>

searched the web, searched the sourcecode and can't find out what this
means or how to fix it.

most systems can send mail fine to the lists but one sun system that
needs to cannot, and everytime it tries, I get that message from
mailman:

As list administrator, your authorization is requested for the
following mailing list posting:

    List:    some at list.at.my.company
    From:    someuser at somehost.com
    Subject: (no subject)
    Reason:  Message has implicit destination

the user is subscribed. what can i do to get around/fix this problem?

this happens when doing :

echo "testing" | mail some at list.at.my.company

the client machine is a solaris 2.6(sparc) running sendmail 8.9.1 from
sunfreeware.com, i have it masqerading as itself. if i don't masqerade
it shows mails comming from user at hostname not user at hostname.domainname.
and mailman doesnt want to let a subscriber subscribe as user at hostname.

running mailman 2.0beta1

thanks!

nate


-- 
Nate Amsden
System Administrator
GraphOn
http://www.graphon.com



From chuqui at plaidworks.com  Mon Oct 30 23:19:50 2000
From: chuqui at plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach)
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 14:19:50 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Message has implicit destination - ???
In-Reply-To: <39FDECED.5787E010@graphon.com>
References: <39FDECED.5787E010@graphon.com>
Message-ID: <p04330112b623a478cf37@[17.216.27.202]>

At 1:49 PM -0800 10/30/00, Nate Amsden wrote:
>searched the web, searched the sourcecode and can't find out what this
>means or how to fix it.
>
>most systems can send mail fine to the lists but one sun system that
>needs to cannot, and everytime it tries, I get that message from
>mailman:

it means the list address isn't in the To: or CC: lines.

-- 
Chuq Von Rospach - Plaidworks Consulting (mailto:chuqui at plaidworks.com)
Apple Mail List Gnome (mailto:chuq at apple.com)

Be just, and fear not.



From natea at graphon.com  Mon Oct 30 23:41:05 2000
From: natea at graphon.com (Nate Amsden)
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 14:41:05 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Message has implicit destination - ???
References: <39FDECED.5787E010@graphon.com> <p04330112b623a478cf37@[17.216.27.202]>
Message-ID: <39FDF901.D0048606@graphon.com>

Chuq Von Rospach wrote:

> it means the list address isn't in the To: or CC: lines.

woohoo! thanks a lot, adding the -t option to mail(adds a To: line for
each recipient)
fixed it :)

thanks again!

-- 
Nate Amsden
System Administrator
GraphOn
http://www.graphon.com



From gossamer at tertius.net.au  Mon Oct 30 23:54:50 2000
From: gossamer at tertius.net.au (Bek Oberin)
Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 09:54:50 +1100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Permissions prob
Message-ID: <20001031095450.C24993@tertius.net.au>

Since I upgraded from 1.1something to 2.0beta5 (Using the Debian
packages in the unstable dist):

Oct 31 09:47:04 2000 (23491) Delivery exception: [Errno 13] Permission denied: '/var/lib/mailman/archives/private/nsw-consent.mbox/nsw-consent.mbox'
Oct 31 09:47:04 2000 (23491) Traceback (innermost last):
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/HandlerAPI.py", line 82, in do_pipeline
    func(mlist, msg, msgdata)
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/ToArchive.py", line 31, in process
    mlist.ArchiveMail(msg, msgdata)
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/Archiver.py", line 197, in ArchiveMail    self.__archive_to_mbox(msg)
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/Archiver.py", line 163, in __archive_to_mbox
    mbox = self.__archive_file(afn)
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/Archiver.py", line 149, in __archive_file return Mailbox.Mailbox(open_ex(afn, "a+"))
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Utils.py", line 578, in open_ex
    fd = os.open(filename, flags, perms)
IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied: '/var/lib/mailman/archives/private/nsw-consent.mbox/nsw-consent.mbox'


check_perms reports nothing about the archives, they are set to
root-only write though:

[root at dora] ~# ls -l /var/lib/mailman/archives/private/nsw-consent.mbox/nsw-consent.mbox
   0 -rw-r--r--   1 root     list            0 May  3  2000 /var/lib/mailman/archives/private/nsw-consent.mbox/nsw-consent.mbox

Should I try setting them to 0664 instead of 0644?

bekj 

-- 
: --Hacker-Neophile-Eclectic-Geek-Grrl-Queer-Disabled-Boychick--
: gossamer at tertius.net.au   http://www.tertius.net.au/~gossamer/
: If you want, then start to laugh.  If you must, then start to
: cry. Be yourself - don't hide, Just believe in destiny.
: -- Enigma



From watt at collab.net  Tue Oct 31 01:51:06 2000
From: watt at collab.net (Robert Watt)
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 19:51:06 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman not creating html archives
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10010301945000.5111-100000@seamus.alphanumerica.com>

I am trying to transfer mailman from one server to another. I've done a
fairly vanilla install, and all components of mailman are working except
html archives. No matter what I do, I can't get them to start. No errors
are generated in the logs. The .mbox archives are working fine. In my
Defaults.py file I have the following line:

ARCHIVE_TO_MBOX = 2

which should enable html archives. both servers have the same config as
far as I can tell. The only difference is that one is running qmail, and
the other postfix (although I can't see how that could be related to the
problem). All of the lists I've set up have the archiving options set the
same as on the old server (basically - public archives, monthly frequency,
local archiving, etc).

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Thanks.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Rob Watt
System Administrator
CollabNet NY
212-414-4212 x113
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^





From rick at neverslow.com  Tue Oct 31 03:09:02 2000
From: rick at neverslow.com (Rick VanNorman)
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 18:09:02 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] MIME attachments again.
Message-ID: <200010301809020254.14CC0AFB@neverslow.com>

Hi Guys,

Sorry to bring the subject up again, but what is the best 
currently recommended way to strip mime attachments from
email before it is sent?  

I have a user who gets the KAK virus about once a month and
*always* passes it on to all our friends.

I'm using 2.0beta1 on RedHat 6.2 .

Thanks,

Rick VanNorman




From chuqui at plaidworks.com  Tue Oct 31 04:05:14 2000
From: chuqui at plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach)
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 19:05:14 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] MIME attachments again.
In-Reply-To: <200010301809020254.14CC0AFB@neverslow.com>
References: <200010301809020254.14CC0AFB@neverslow.com>
Message-ID: <p04330103b623e72828c5@[209.239.169.197]>

At 6:09 PM -0800 10/30/00, Rick VanNorman wrote:
>Hi Guys,
>
>Sorry to bring the subject up again, but what is the best
>currently recommended way to strip mime attachments from
>email before it is sent?

I use demime to strip mail to the text part.

<http://scifi.squawk.com/demime.html>

eventually, i want to write code that'll strip active content and 
leave the rest, but don't hold your breath... (grin)
-- 
Chuq Von Rospach - Plaidworks Consulting (mailto:chuqui at plaidworks.com)
Apple Mail List Gnome (mailto:chuq at apple.com)

Be just, and fear not.



From Dan.Mick at West.Sun.COM  Tue Oct 31 04:28:44 2000
From: Dan.Mick at West.Sun.COM (Dan Mick)
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 19:28:44 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Permissions prob
Message-ID: <200010310327.TAA25578@utopia.west.sun.com>

Well, mine is 664 mailman/mailman.  I'm not certain why.  But it works
that way.  The scheme *seems* to be (don't quote me on this) 
group-writable-by-group-mailman, so that the programs, which should
be sgid-mailman, will have permissions.


> Since I upgraded from 1.1something to 2.0beta5 (Using the Debian
> packages in the unstable dist):
> 
> Oct 31 09:47:04 2000 (23491) Delivery exception: [Errno 13] Permission denied: 
'/var/lib/mailman/archives/private/nsw-consent.mbox/nsw-consent.mbox'
> Oct 31 09:47:04 2000 (23491) Traceback (innermost last):
>   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/HandlerAPI.py", line 82, in 
do_pipeline
>     func(mlist, msg, msgdata)
>   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/ToArchive.py", line 31, in process
>     mlist.ArchiveMail(msg, msgdata)
>   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/Archiver.py", line 197, in 
ArchiveMail    self.__archive_to_mbox(msg)
>   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/Archiver.py", line 163, in 
__archive_to_mbox
>     mbox = self.__archive_file(afn)
>   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/Archiver.py", line 149, in 
__archive_file return Mailbox.Mailbox(open_ex(afn, "a+"))
>   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Utils.py", line 578, in open_ex
>     fd = os.open(filename, flags, perms)
> IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied: 
'/var/lib/mailman/archives/private/nsw-consent.mbox/nsw-consent.mbox'
> 
> 
> check_perms reports nothing about the archives, they are set to
> root-only write though:
> 
> [root at dora] ~# ls -l 
/var/lib/mailman/archives/private/nsw-consent.mbox/nsw-consent.mbox
>    0 -rw-r--r--   1 root     list            0 May  3  2000 
/var/lib/mailman/archives/private/nsw-consent.mbox/nsw-consent.mbox
> 
> Should I try setting them to 0664 instead of 0644?
> 
> bekj 
> 
> -- 
> : --Hacker-Neophile-Eclectic-Geek-Grrl-Queer-Disabled-Boychick--
> : gossamer at tertius.net.au   http://www.tertius.net.au/~gossamer/
> : If you want, then start to laugh.  If you must, then start to
> : cry. Be yourself - don't hide, Just believe in destiny.
> : -- Enigma
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users maillist  -  Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users





From Dan.Mick at West.Sun.COM  Tue Oct 31 04:31:20 2000
From: Dan.Mick at West.Sun.COM (Dan Mick)
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 19:31:20 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] weird problems; a cry for help
Message-ID: <200010310329.TAA25705@utopia.west.sun.com>

> >>>>> "JWB" == John W Baxter <jwblist at olympus.net> writes:
> 
>     JWB> Someone with better C skills than mine (which haven't been
>     JWB> exercised in about 7 years) could try the samples in C (of
>     JWB> various flavors).
> 
> -------------------- snip snip --------------------
> #include <stdio.h>
> 
> int main()
> {
>     printf("% d\n", 10);
>     return 0;
> }
> -------------------- snip snip --------------------
> @anthem[[[/tmp:1037]]]% ./a.out
>  10

You learn something new every day...




From rick at neverslow.com  Tue Oct 31 05:29:43 2000
From: rick at neverslow.com (Rick VanNorman)
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 20:29:43 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] MIME attachments again.
In-Reply-To: <p04330103b623e72828c5@[209.239.169.197]>
References: <200010301809020254.14CC0AFB@neverslow.com>
 <p04330103b623e72828c5@[209.239.169.197]>
Message-ID: <200010302029430743.154CD98B@neverslow.com>

Chuq,

What is the dummy's guide to installing it into the mailman alias list;
or how do you interface and use it with mailman?

Thanks,

Rick VanNorman

*********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********

On 10/30/2000 at 7:05 PM Chuq Von Rospach wrote:

>At 6:09 PM -0800 10/30/00, Rick VanNorman wrote:
>>Hi Guys,
>>
>>Sorry to bring the subject up again, but what is the best
>>currently recommended way to strip mime attachments from
>>email before it is sent?
>
>I use demime to strip mail to the text part.
>
><http://scifi.squawk.com/demime.html>
>





From chuqui at plaidworks.com  Tue Oct 31 06:11:53 2000
From: chuqui at plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach)
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 21:11:53 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] MIME attachments again.
In-Reply-To: <200010302029430743.154CD98B@neverslow.com>
References: <200010301809020254.14CC0AFB@neverslow.com>
 <p04330103b623e72828c5@[209.239.169.197]>
 <200010302029430743.154CD98B@neverslow.com>
Message-ID: <p04330108b62404d22076@[209.239.169.197]>

At 8:29 PM -0800 10/30/00, Rick VanNorman wrote:
>Chuq,
>
>What is the dummy's guide to installing it into the mailman alias list;
>or how do you interface and use it with mailman?

sure: this goes in the list address and -request address. Don't put 
it on the owner or -admin address (unless you want to have the 
problems I had over the weekend...)

foo:"| /usr/local/etc/demime.pl - |/home/mailman/mail/wrapper post foo"
-- 
Chuq Von Rospach - Plaidworks Consulting (mailto:chuqui at plaidworks.com)
Apple Mail List Gnome (mailto:chuq at apple.com)

Be just, and fear not.



From larsbj at lyx.org  Tue Oct 31 06:29:36 2000
From: larsbj at lyx.org (Lars Gullik Bjønnes)
Date: 31 Oct 2000 06:29:36 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] MIME attachments again.
In-Reply-To: <p04330103b623e72828c5@[209.239.169.197]>
References: <200010301809020254.14CC0AFB@neverslow.com>
	<p04330103b623e72828c5@[209.239.169.197]>
Message-ID: <m3d7ghmvcv.fsf@aussie.lyx.org>

Chuq Von Rospach <chuqui at plaidworks.com> writes:

| I use demime to strip mail to the text part.
| 
| <http://scifi.squawk.com/demime.html>
| 
| eventually, i want to write code that'll strip active content and
| leave the rest, but don't hold your breath... (grin)

Does this tool extract the mime part save it to disk and replace the
mimepart in the mail with an URL... that would have been _very_ nice.

Actually I think this should be part of mailman so that you could
easily decide on a list basis how to handle and where to save.

        Lgb




From chuqui at plaidworks.com  Tue Oct 31 06:26:15 2000
From: chuqui at plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach)
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 21:26:15 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] MIME attachments again.
In-Reply-To: <m3d7ghmvcv.fsf@aussie.lyx.org>
References: <200010301809020254.14CC0AFB@neverslow.com>
 <p04330103b623e72828c5@[209.239.169.197]>
 <m3d7ghmvcv.fsf@aussie.lyx.org>
Message-ID: <p04330109b6240853f342@[209.239.169.197]>

At 6:29 AM +0100 10/31/00, Lars Gullik Bj?nnes wrote:
>Does this tool extract the mime part save it to disk and replace the
>mimepart in the mail with an URL... that would have been _very_ nice.

No. It just deletes all but the MIME part.

>Actually I think this should be part of mailman so that you could
>easily decide on a list basis how to handle and where to save.

That's what I plan to do, when I have time to do it. If you can't 
wait, well, this is an open source project.. (grin)
-- 
Chuq Von Rospach - Plaidworks Consulting (mailto:chuqui at plaidworks.com)
Apple Mail List Gnome (mailto:chuq at apple.com)

Be just, and fear not.



From barry at wooz.org  Tue Oct 31 06:40:50 2000
From: barry at wooz.org (barry at wooz.org)
Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 00:40:50 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] 2.0rc1 notes
References: <OF6302C232.9ABCDC1B-ON86256985.00728E31@RCHLAND.IBM.COM>
	<39F9EBD6.DFCDF55E@us.ibm.com>
Message-ID: <14846.23394.186166.190329@anthem.concentric.net>

>>>>> "SF" == Steve Fox <stevefx at us.ibm.com> writes:

    Me> Be sure DEFAULT_URL ends in a slash.

    SF> Did this change between beta2 and beta6?
 
Yup.

-Barry



From barry at wooz.org  Tue Oct 31 06:44:32 2000
From: barry at wooz.org (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 00:44:32 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Feature request
References: <20001028122227.R4391@tertius.net.au>
Message-ID: <14846.23616.687173.915458@anthem.concentric.net>

>>>>> "BO" == Bek Oberin <gossamer at tertius.net.au> writes:

    BO> Persistant cookies, so I don't have to log into the damm thing
    BO> every time I start the browser.  I look after about a million
    BO> lists (okay, thirty-ish) and logging onto every list every
    BO> morning to process the bounces is a MAJOR pain.  This would
    BO> obviously be something to make optional, as it could be a
    BO> secrurity prob, but still ... it'd be nice to have the option.

A better approach (eventually) will be to authenticate yourself once
to Mailman, and then be presented with a page for all the lists you
administer.  Or if you're just a user, of all the lists you're a
member of.

Believe me, I manage many lists on python.org and (in nostalgic spirit
of the coming US presidental elections) I feel your pain.  :)

    BO> Thanks to the developers for a GREAT program, BTW.  I just
    BO> upgraded from 1.1 to 2.whateveritis with NO problems at all.
    BO> I was anticipating major nightmares and hiccups and it just
    BO> dropped in brilliantly.  I am VERY impressed!

Thanks!
-Barry



From gossamer at tertius.net.au  Tue Oct 31 07:38:52 2000
From: gossamer at tertius.net.au (Bek Oberin)
Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 17:38:52 +1100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Feature request
In-Reply-To: <14846.23616.687173.915458@anthem.concentric.net>; from barry@wooz.org on Tue, Oct 31, 2000 at 12:44:32AM -0500
References: <20001028122227.R4391@tertius.net.au> <14846.23616.687173.915458@anthem.concentric.net>
Message-ID: <20001031173852.F24993@tertius.net.au>

Barry A. Warsaw wrote:
> >>>>> "BO" == Bek Oberin <gossamer at tertius.net.au> writes:
>     BO> Persistant cookies, so I don't have to log into the damm thing
>     BO> every time I start the browser.  I look after about a million
>     BO> lists (okay, thirty-ish) and logging onto every list every
>     BO> morning to process the bounces is a MAJOR pain.  This would
>     BO> obviously be something to make optional, as it could be a
>     BO> secrurity prob, but still ... it'd be nice to have the option.
> A better approach (eventually) will be to authenticate yourself once
> to Mailman, and then be presented with a page for all the lists you
> administer.  Or if you're just a user, of all the lists you're a
> member of.

This would be utterly glorious :)

In a similar spirit, to log onto the admin database and be
presented with the held messages for ALL lists you administer.  I
find the only really onerous thing about Mailman is having to log
onto between 5 and 20 lists every morning to deal with the spam
mail that's been sent overnight :(


bekj

-- 
: --Hacker-Neophile-Eclectic-Geek-Grrl-Queer-Disabled-Boychick--
: gossamer at tertius.net.au   http://www.tertius.net.au/~gossamer/
: In the midst of winter, I finally learned that there was in me
: an invincible summer  -- Albert Camus



From info at italia2.com  Tue Oct 31 08:44:46 2000
From: info at italia2.com (info at italia2.com)
Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 08:44:46 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] anounce-only mailing list
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20001031084446.00eedea0@216.74.87.99>

  
    Hello we are using mailman in our machine, our customers need to get
subscriptions on
    the web without password and to send emails to subscribers
    without them answering; Actual program seems to perfectly
    handle a mailing list where users can answer to moderator
    and communicate to each others; well they don't want users
    to answer, jus to get weekly emails after subscriptions. And
    subsc should be performed without any pswd, simply filling
    out with email add.
Is it possible?

thank you
        *******************************
   Le richieste di assistenza devono 
contenere username e pswd del dominio
        *******************************
                    ITALIA2 
         International Web Hosting
        Assistenza Icq #4575596
        *******************************
                                                              



From gietl at gietl.com  Tue Oct 31 14:01:17 2000
From: gietl at gietl.com (Andreas Gietl)
Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 14:01:17 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] subscriptions fail
Message-ID: <39FEC29D.9FA5FF7@gietl.com>

Hi,

i am running a few servers with mailman-2.0b2 and exim-3.16 and
everything is working fine.
But after every upgrade to a version >b2 i get a problem:
After subscription the user gets his confirmation of subscription
request.

But after answering this mail nothing happens!

Exim delivers the mail without any errors to mailman but no result takes
place.

Any ideas? Need more information?

andreas
-- 
andreas gietl
gietl internet services
fon +49 9402 2551
fax +49 9402 2604
mobile +49 171 60 70 008
gietl at gietl.com

############################################
# Das Handbuch sagt, das Programm ben?tige #
#  Windows 95 oder besser. Also habe ich   #
#          Linux installiert!              # 
############################################



From gould at cis.ohio-state.edu  Tue Oct 31 15:29:36 2000
From: gould at cis.ohio-state.edu (Joshua Gould)
Date: 31 Oct 2000 09:29:36 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] unsubscribe problems
Message-ID: <vakg0lddqy7.fsf@gold.cis.ohio-state.edu>

Suppse I set up a list so that a list so that it requires email
confirmation. A user sends mail to list-request. They get their
conformation email and then they follow the instructions. Ok... all is
good so far. Now if they try to mail list-request with an unsubscribe
command it complains about a lack of a password. The point is that the
user may not even have a password, so how do they get off the list
without using the web interface?


  Joshua Gould



From jtpjatae at bi.ehu.es  Tue Oct 31 15:31:46 2000
From: jtpjatae at bi.ehu.es (Eduardo Jacob)
Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 15:31:46 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] MIME attachments again.
Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20001031153139.00cb1d30@158.227.65.40>

At 06:11 31/10/00, you wrote:

>foo:"| /usr/local/etc/demime.pl - |/home/mailman/mail/wrapper post foo"

         The problem is that with this, line, smrsh as shipped in RH 
6.1,complains and doesn't let you execute this line. Do you have an idea of 
how to fix it?, perhaps a shell script?

         Eduardo




From fil at bok.net  Tue Oct 31 15:38:53 2000
From: fil at bok.net (Fil)
Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 15:38:53 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] MIME attachments again.
In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20001031153139.00cb1d30@158.227.65.40>; from jtpjatae@bi.ehu.es on Tue, Oct 31, 2000 at 03:31:46PM +0100
References: <4.3.2.7.2.20001031153139.00cb1d30@158.227.65.40>
Message-ID: <20001031153853.A21508@orwell.bok.net>

You probably need to install the package named libhtml-format-perl that is
used by the demime script.

However be aware that demime munges all non-ascii characters such as
accentuated letters.

* Eduardo Jacob (jtpjatae at bi.ehu.es) ?crivait :
> At 06:11 31/10/00, you wrote:
> 
> >foo:"| /usr/local/etc/demime.pl - |/home/mailman/mail/wrapper post foo"
> 
>          The problem is that with this, line, smrsh as shipped in RH 
> 6.1,complains and doesn't let you execute this line. Do you have an idea of 
> how to fix it?, perhaps a shell script?



From veldy at veldy.net  Tue Oct 31 15:59:10 2000
From: veldy at veldy.net (Thomas T. Veldhouse)
Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 08:59:10 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] unsubscribe problems
References: <vakg0lddqy7.fsf@gold.cis.ohio-state.edu>
Message-ID: <008d01c0434b$20aa1700$c70b200a@FairIsaac.com>

The user always has a password.  They have to set it up when they subscribe.
If the administrator subscribes them, they are given an autogenerated
password (which by default is emailed to them).

Tom Veldhouse
veldy at veldy.net

----- Original Message -----
From: "Joshua Gould" <gould at cis.ohio-state.edu>
To: <mailman-users at python.org>
Sent: Tuesday, October 31, 2000 8:29 AM
Subject: [Mailman-Users] unsubscribe problems


> Suppse I set up a list so that a list so that it requires email
> confirmation. A user sends mail to list-request. They get their
> conformation email and then they follow the instructions. Ok... all is
> good so far. Now if they try to mail list-request with an unsubscribe
> command it complains about a lack of a password. The point is that the
> user may not even have a password, so how do they get off the list
> without using the web interface?
>
>
>   Joshua Gould
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users maillist  -  Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
>




From jsmoriss at jsm-mv.dyndns.org  Tue Oct 31 17:06:34 2000
From: jsmoriss at jsm-mv.dyndns.org (Jean-Sebastien Morisset)
Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 11:06:34 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: Renaming mailing lists... HELP!
In-Reply-To: <20001029195944.B26569@marvin.homeip.net>; from jsmoriss@jsm-mv.dyndns.org on Sun, Oct 29, 2000 at 07:59:44PM -0500
References: <20001029195944.B26569@marvin.homeip.net>
Message-ID: <20001031110633.A26619@marvin.homeip.net>

Doesn't anyone know how to rename a mailing list?

Would this be a valid procedure:

1- Change the "public name" and other list configurations.
2- Change the mailing list aliases (in sendmail).
3- Rename file/links/etc. under the archives directory.

or do I have to create a new list, export/import members, and do a
move_list? The docs and FAQ don't mention this. Am I the first person to
rename a mailing list?

Thanks,
js.
-- 
Jean-Sebastien Morisset, Sr. UNIX Admin <jsmoriss at jsm-mv.dyndns.org>
Personal Homepage <http://www.jsmoriss.dyndns.org/> 
UNIX, Internet, Homebrewing, Cigars, PCS, CP2020 and other Fun Stuff...
This is Linux Country. On a quiet night you can hear Windows NT reboot!



From lindsey at mallorn.com  Tue Oct 31 17:21:43 2000
From: lindsey at mallorn.com (Christopher P. Lindsey)
Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 10:21:43 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] MIME attachments again.
In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20001031153139.00cb1d30@158.227.65.40>; from jtpjatae@bi.ehu.es on Tue, Oct 31, 2000 at 03:31:46PM +0100
References: <4.3.2.7.2.20001031153139.00cb1d30@158.227.65.40>
Message-ID: <20001031102143.A12231@mallorn.com>

> >foo:"| /usr/local/etc/demime.pl - |/home/mailman/mail/wrapper post foo"
> 
>          The problem is that with this, line, smrsh as shipped in RH 
> 6.1,complains and doesn't let you execute this line. Do you have an idea of 
> how to fix it?, perhaps a shell script?

# cd /etc/smrsh ; ln -s /usr/local/etc/demime.pl

Chris



From bob at nleaudio.com  Tue Oct 31 18:54:16 2000
From: bob at nleaudio.com (Bob Puff@NLE)
Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 12:54:16 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Weird digest problem
References: <200010301809020254.14CC0AFB@neverslow.com>
	 <p04330103b623e72828c5@[209.239.169.197]>
	 <m3d7ghmvcv.fsf@aussie.lyx.org> <p04330109b6240853f342@[209.239.169.197]>
Message-ID: <39FF0748.F20BED82@nleaudio.com>

Hello,

On one of my active lists today, I saw the following happen:

At 12:01PM, It sent out a digest (both plain and mime to the appropriate addresses), saying there were 93 messages in the digest.

Both the plain and mime digests had messages 1-64, and ended in the middle of message 64 without the footer being inserted.

At 12:08PM, two more digests went out, but with no headers and messed up subject lines, which contained messages 65-89.  Again, no footer, but message #89 looked like it was at the end.

I am missing numbers 90-93.

Note I said I got two digests.  One was the plain version, the second looked like the mime version, yet in text.. It had headers for each message, but it was not HTML... This is very bizzare!

What might cause this?  Is there any magical byte count that when the digest hits, it splits?

Bob



From gordong at babcockbrown.com  Tue Oct 31 19:52:50 2000
From: gordong at babcockbrown.com (Gordon Grant)
Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 18:52:50 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] modifying 'not-metoo' option's behavour?
Message-ID: <14847.5378.76334.497749@etna.eu.babcockbrown.com>

Hi,

I use currently use Mailman for some of Babcock & Brown's internal
mailing lists.

We are having a problem with people getting multiple emails, despite
having the 'not-metoo' option switched on.  This is caused by them
being another recipient on a mail also sent to the list.

The not-metoo option, (if I'm correct) removes an address from the
list of names to send to when the list is run, if that person *sent*
the mail to the list.

The question:  Is there any way to change this behaviour so that the
name gets dropped if the person was merely cc'd on a mail sent to
the list, instead of having sent it?

This would be a wonderful feature to have in the way we use Mailman here.

Regards,

Gordon Grant
Systems Administrator
Babcock & Brown




From jtpjatae at bi.ehu.es  Tue Oct 31 20:16:50 2000
From: jtpjatae at bi.ehu.es (Eduardo Jacob)
Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 20:16:50 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Adding many users (Migration from majordomo)
Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20001031195951.00d9ddb0@158.227.65.40>

I have tried to migrate a medium (795 users) list from majordomo to mailman 
with small success. I have tried:

- from the administrative interface I get an error, this is what I get on 
the log: Note that there is not quota for mailman user

Oct 31 18:13:25 2000 (10519) Failed config.db write, retaining old state.
[Errno 122] Disk quota exceeded
Oct 31 18:13:25 2000 (10519) Delivery exception:
Oct 31 18:13:25 2000 (10519) Traceback (innermost last):
   File "/home/mailman//Mailman/Handlers/HandlerAPI.py", line 82, in 
do_pipeline
     func(mlist, msg, msgdata)
   File "/home/mailman//Mailman/Handlers/SMTPDirect.py", line 77, in process
     mlist.Lock()
   File "/home/mailman//Mailman/MailList.py", line 1322, in Lock
     self.__lock.lock(timeout)
   File "/home/mailman//Mailman/LockFile.py", line 266, in lock
     raise AlreadyLockedError
AlreadyLockedError:

After that I continously get errors, so I remove manually every lock and 
restart the machine. From that point, /bin utilities seem to recognize the 
config.db file,  I am able to list members, to dump the database, and even 
remove all users with remove_members. But the administrative interface 
after putting the first screen of membership management (the one with 
members) is not able to get another page of members.

So, I see the sync_members utility (BUG: the -a is incorrectly listed as 
--a) so I try to update from the command line, everything seems to work but 
it stops (I have lost the screen) but I have been able to see that the last 
address had this form (Which I don't know if is legal)

asdvb+ at asdasda.com   Yes, there is a + before the @.

Could this be the reason of the clash? I did hope so... but after a try I 
noticed this works...

Should I try to add this users

	Eduardo

BTW: in the remove_members it would be nice to add an option (as in 
sync_members) for not sending messages on unsubscribing.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Eduardo Jacob - Area de Ingenieria Telematica
Departamento de Electronica y Telecomunicaciones
ETSII y de IT               Tel: +34 94 601 4214
UPV / EHU                   Fax: +34 94 601 4259
Alda Urquijo s/n         E-mail: jtpjatae at bi.ehu.es
E-48013 - Bilbao (Spain)
PGP Key available: Send email w/subject: PGPKEY
fingerprint      : D8 FA 54 49 F7 40 BA AA 09 1A 73 40 A4 26 ED BD




From Dan.Mick at west.sun.com  Tue Oct 31 20:52:35 2000
From: Dan.Mick at west.sun.com (Dan Mick)
Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 11:52:35 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] unsubscribe problems
References: <vakg0lddqy7.fsf@gold.cis.ohio-state.edu> <008d01c0434b$20aa1700$c70b200a@FairIsaac.com>
Message-ID: <39FF2303.9C237AF3@west.sun.com>


"Thomas T. Veldhouse" wrote:
> 
> The user always has a password.  They have to set it up when they subscribe.
> If the administrator subscribes them, they are given an autogenerated
> password (which by default is emailed to them).

Almost.  The user always has a password, but it's either
1) entered by them on the web form to subscribe?
2) entered by them with "password=" in the email to subscribe, or
3) assigned by the system (if they subscribe through email or by admin action).

The password is always mailed to them in the welcome message.



From barry at wooz.org  Tue Oct 31 21:06:05 2000
From: barry at wooz.org (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 15:06:05 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Feature request
References: <20001028122227.R4391@tertius.net.au>
	<14846.23616.687173.915458@anthem.concentric.net>
	<20001031173852.F24993@tertius.net.au>
Message-ID: <14847.9773.557161.953210@anthem.concentric.net>

>>>>> "BO" == Bek Oberin <gossamer at tertius.net.au> writes:

    BO> In a similar spirit, to log onto the admin database and be
    BO> presented with the held messages for ALL lists you administer.
    BO> I find the only really onerous thing about Mailman is having
    BO> to log onto between 5 and 20 lists every morning to deal with
    BO> the spam mail that's been sent overnight :(

I know what you mean!



From sylvianicole at netscape.net  Tue Oct 31 21:08:53 2000
From: sylvianicole at netscape.net (sylvia nicole)
Date: 31 Oct 00 12:08:53 PST
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Modify Mailman
Message-ID: <20001031200853.16387.qmail@www0s.netaddress.usa.net>

Is it possible to modify Mailman without too much work to do the following:

1. users can unsubscribe by email and email confirmation, without password and
without webpage
2. users can subscribe by email and email confirmation, without password and
without webpage
3. only the admin can post to the list. List members cannot post to the list.

Thank you,
Sylvia



____________________________________________________________________
Get your own FREE, personal Netscape WebMail account today at http://home.netscape.com/webmail



From Dan.Mick at west.sun.com  Tue Oct 31 21:23:05 2000
From: Dan.Mick at west.sun.com (Dan Mick)
Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 12:23:05 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Modify Mailman
References: <200010312020.NAA05436@lukla.Sun.COM>
Message-ID: <39FF2A29.A483C536@west.sun.com>

sylvia nicole wrote:
>
> Is it possible to modify Mailman without too much work to do the following:
>
> 1. users can unsubscribe by email and email confirmation, without password and
> without webpage
> 2. users can subscribe by email and email confirmation, without password and
> without webpage
 
sub/unsub by email already works.

"no passwords" is an often-requested feature that has not yet been added.

> 3. only the admin can post to the list. List members cannot post to the list.

Read 'Details' on the last item in Privacy/General posting filters.



From nicola at mens.it  Mon Oct 16 17:37:59 2000
From: nicola at mens.it (nicola)
Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 17:37:59 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] help!!
Message-ID: <39EB20D7.7224C4EC@mens.it>

I've installed Mailman on my Linux PC.
I've compiled the source with the following options:
   ./configure --with-cgi-gid=mailman --with-mail-gid=mailman
When i try to create a newlist (mailman/bin/newlist) as mailman user,
the directory /mailman/admin is not created. Then I don't see the list
in my web pages.Why???

Thanks

Nicola