From matsh at iirutb.se  Mon Nov  1 10:06:02 1999
From: matsh at iirutb.se (Mats Haglund)
Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1999 10:06:02 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] passwordless unsubscribes?
Message-ID: <007001bf2448$55dc2800$2e01a8c0@iirutb.se>

Hi all!
I've been searching the list archives for a way to disable passwords when users unsubscribe.  I run a firewalled list. Only list admins have access to the html interface.
Is it possible to disable passwords? 

Any suggestions?

Regards

Mats




From glen at interq.or.jp  Mon Nov  1 11:20:14 1999
From: glen at interq.or.jp (Glen Malley)
Date: Mon, 01 Nov 1999 19:20:14 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailing List Size Limits?
Message-ID: <381D695E.FC4FA4B7@interq.or.jp>

Hey, does anybody know if Mailman has the ability
to restrict the number of people subscribed to a
mailing list?

If not, I have to implement it...fast...;-P



From oguz at smartmedia.ch  Mon Nov  1 11:51:38 1999
From: oguz at smartmedia.ch (Oguz Demirkapi)
Date: Mon, 01 Nov 1999 11:51:38 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Delay
Message-ID: <381D70BA1EC.3B14OGUZ@mail.cybernet-ag.de>

Hi,

I have a Linux Machine Redhat 6.1 

I installed  Mailman 1.0 and it was running perfect.

But now when I send a msg to a list, I can see my msg in the list
archive but it does not deliver msg to the users.

And this occurs sometimes, and I am sure that msg will be delivered a
time later, 

BUT WHY ?

And this problem occurs in non regular time. It does not any sense.

If you have any experience like that plese explain the solution.


Thanks,

Tarantor



From framling at sch.bme.hu  Mon Nov  1 14:35:00 1999
From: framling at sch.bme.hu (<framling> Barton Andras)
Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1999 14:35:00 +0100 (MET)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman on digital Unix 4.0B or Sun solaris
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.20.9911011428480.13311-100000@balu>

Hi everyone!

Is there anyone using Mailman on Unix operating system mentioned above?
how much is the system resource need of mailman? (of course depending on
the list, and users)
Can anyone compare it to listproc?

thanks a lot

Andras Barton from Hungary 


sziakoszi
		framling

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
              Mosolyogj!                  framling=-
           ez csak e-mail!                abarton at sch.bme.hu
 Legy vidam, vagany, akar egy srac..      framling at sch.bme.hu
------------------------------------------------------------------------------







From jfreeman at scansoft.com  Mon Nov  1 19:39:26 1999
From: jfreeman at scansoft.com (Joshua S. Freeman)
Date: Mon, 01 Nov 1999 14:39:26 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] non-subscribed ex members receiving password reminders
Message-ID: <199911011829.NAA29212@mail.scansoft.com>

why does this happen?  how can I make it stop?

J.

I have a number of people who have unsubscribed from our list (at least I
can't find them in any of the membership screens) but continue to receive
password reminder emails...

I really need to stop this.  If anyone knows how, please contact me!

Thanks,

J.




From bwarsaw at CNRI.Reston.VA.US  Mon Nov  1 21:27:20 1999
From: bwarsaw at CNRI.Reston.VA.US (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1999 15:27:20 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailing List Size Limits?
References: <381D695E.FC4FA4B7@interq.or.jp>
Message-ID: <14365.63400.192809.962995@anthem.cnri.reston.va.us>

>>>>> "GM" == Glen Malley <glen at interq.or.jp> writes:

    GM> Hey, does anybody know if Mailman has the ability
    GM> to restrict the number of people subscribed to a
    GM> mailing list?

It does not.

-Barry



From jarrell at vt.edu  Mon Nov  1 22:15:10 1999
From: jarrell at vt.edu (Ron Jarrell)
Date: Mon, 01 Nov 1999 16:15:10 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailing List Size Limits?
In-Reply-To: <381D695E.FC4FA4B7@interq.or.jp>
Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.19991101161426.00a82440@vtserf.cc.vt.edu>

At 07:20 PM 11/1/99 +0900, you wrote:

>Hey, does anybody know if Mailman has the ability
>to restrict the number of people subscribed to a
>mailing list?

Not automatically, but you could always set it to require subscription
approval, and have the owner keep it small manually...
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From nick at zork.net  Mon Nov  1 22:28:16 1999
From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt)
Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1999 13:28:16 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Delay
In-Reply-To: <381D70BA1EC.3B14OGUZ@mail.cybernet-ag.de>; from Oguz Demirkapi on Mon, Nov 01, 1999 at 11:51:38AM +0100
References: <381D70BA1EC.3B14OGUZ@mail.cybernet-ag.de>
Message-ID: <19991101132816.S12435@zork.net>

Quoting Oguz Demirkapi:
> I installed  Mailman 1.0 and it was running perfect.
> 
> But now when I send a msg to a list, I can see my msg in the list
> archive but it does not deliver msg to the users.

        I had this problem when my MTA was misconfigured so that it
wouldn't relay mail from localhost.  Try allowing mail relays from
localhost.

-- 
((lambda (x) (list x (list (quote quote) x)))
(quote (lambda (x) (list x (list (quote quote) x)))))
	-- A LISP quine written by Seth David Schoen
+++ath



From gonter at maestria.wu-wien.ac.at  Mon Nov  1 23:18:26 1999
From: gonter at maestria.wu-wien.ac.at (Gerhard Gonter)
Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1999 23:18:26 +0100 (MEZ)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman on digital Unix 4.0B or Sun solaris
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.20.9911011428480.13311-100000@balu> from daemon at "Nov 1, 99 02:35:00 pm"
Message-ID: <199911012218.XAA67218@maestria.wu-wien.ac.at>

According to daemon:
> Can anyone compare it to listproc?

I run both and am happy to dump listproc in exchange for Mailman rsn.

+gg
 
--
Gerhard.Gonter at wu-wien.ac.at  Fax: +43/1/31336/702  g.gonter at ieee.org
Zentrum fuer Informatikdienste, Wirtschaftsuniversitaet Wien, Austria



From klm at digicool.com  Tue Nov  2 20:10:46 1999
From: klm at digicool.com (klm)
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1999 14:10:46 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: Mailman-Users digest, Vol 1 #376 - 9 msgs
In-Reply-To: <199911020609.BAA00946@python.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.10.9911021358010.16728-100000@korak.digicool.com>

> Date: Mon, 01 Nov 1999 14:39:26 -0400
> From: "Joshua S. Freeman" <jfreeman at scansoft.com>
> To: mailman <mailman-users at python.org>
> Subject: [Mailman-Users] non-subscribed ex members receiving password reminders
> 
> why does this happen?  how can I make it stop?

Simply enough, it's a bug.  If i recall correctly, it's been addressed in
more recent versions of mailman - the new version may even have a
procedure to wipe the orphaned password entries, or at least disregard
them if there's no corresponding account.

However, if like me you haven't had the time to upgrade*, below is a
script i just cobbled together to clean the passwords on my site.  Read
the module docstring at the top for details, including instructions for
use.

Ken Manheimer
klm at digicool.com

(* Sigh - i haven't even gotten near hacking mailman code in a while - i'm
thankful that barry and others have been taking care of crucial stuff!)

8<---------------------------- cleanpasswds --------------------------->8

#!/usr/bin/env python

"""Identify and offer to delete orphaned passwords in any mailman lists.

I believe that more recent mailman versions rectify this problem, this is a 
quick and dirty hack to tide you over until you have time to upgrade.

To use this, put it in your ~mailman/bin dir as, eg, 'cleanpasswds', then
run as the mailman user with 'python bin/cleanpasswds'.  It will show any
orphaned passwords it finds for each list, and offer to remove them.

It's important to run as mailman, so list files maintain the right uid.

ken manheimer, klm at digicool.com 11/02/1999."""

import string

import paths

from Mailman.Utils import map_maillists
from Mailman.MailList import MailList

def mine(l, find=string.find, lower=string.lower):
    """Return a list of password entry ids lacking any corresponding acount."""
    got = []
    accts = l.members.copy()
    accts.update(l.digest_members.copy())
    for i in l.passwords.keys():
        if not accts.has_key(lower(i)): got.append(i)
    return got

def query_clean(l):
    print l.real_name,
    got = mine(l)
    if not got:
        print "- No stale password entries found"
    else:
        print "- %s stale password entries:" % len(got)
        print got
        msg = "Delete these %s stale password entries? [y] " % l.real_name
        confirm = raw_input(msg)
        if not confirm or (string.lower(confirm) == 'y'):
            print "Deleting...",
            # We may block here on obtaining the lock.
            l = MailList(l._internal_name)
            for i in got:
                del l.passwords[i]
            l.Save()
            l.Unlock()
            print " done."


if __name__ == "__main__":
    map_maillists(query_clean, unlock=1)




From pjh at mccc.edu  Tue Nov  2 20:12:55 1999
From: pjh at mccc.edu (Pete Holsberg)
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1999 14:12:55 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: Mailman-Users digest, Vol 1 #376 - 9 msgs
In-Reply-To: <199911020609.BAA00963@python.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.10.9911021407170.19082-100000@tecoma.mccc.edu>

Need installation help.

I ran configure without any options because (a) I'm using
sendmail and the default user:group is daemon:daemon (the
with-mail-gid default) and (b) Apache' Group variable is
det to nobody, the --with-cgi-gid default).

bin/check_perms didn't like the group value; it wanted
'mailman'! So bin/check_perms -f "fixed" that.

I created a test group and got the URL about list admin.
The error message was

Failure to exec script. WANTED gid 11, GOT gid 70. 
(Reconfigure to take 70?)

11 is other (!); 70 is mailman.

I'm confused.

Thanks for the help.

Pete




From paz at apriori.net  Wed Nov  3 02:35:12 1999
From: paz at apriori.net (paz)
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1999 20:35:12 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Known spam
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.10.9911021407170.19082-100000@tecoma.mccc.edu>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.9911022030550.97023-100000@www.apriori.net>


Hi -

I've been getting overwhelmed with stuff the administravia filter catches.
I'm the only one permitted to post to a certain list I've generated, but
many subscribe to the list ("listen-only"). If they want to submit
something, they send the submission to me at a different address.

Problem is that I get a few dozen unauthorized submissions directly to the
list address, the admin filter catches them as it should, and then I have
to scroll through a pile of them to reject them.

Can I filter incoming with something like procmail to just delete stuff
that I know to be spam? Or is there a feature I haven't found within
mailman which will do this for me?

cheers -
-- Philip.


--
DISCLAIMER: Anyone sending me unsolicited commercial electronic mail
automatically agrees to be held to the following legal terms:

US Code Title 47, Sec.227(a)(2)(B), a computer/modem/printer meets the
definition of a telephone fax machine. By Sec.227(b)(1)(C), it is
unlawful to send any unsolicited advertisement to such equipment. By
Sec.227(b)(3)(C), a violation of the aforementioned Section is punishable
by action to recover actual monetary loss, or $500, whichever is greater,
for each violation.




From lindsey at ncsa.uiuc.edu  Wed Nov  3 03:05:31 1999
From: lindsey at ncsa.uiuc.edu (Christopher Lindsey)
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1999 20:05:31 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Known spam
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.9911022030550.97023-100000@www.apriori.net> from "paz" at Nov 2, 99 08:35:12 pm
Message-ID: <199911030205.UAA23087@ferret.ncsa.uiuc.edu>

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From Robert at grapevine2.com  Wed Nov  3 03:43:38 1999
From: Robert at grapevine2.com (Robert)
Date: Tue, 02 Nov 1999 21:43:38 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Bug?
In-Reply-To: <199911030205.UAA23087@ferret.ncsa.uiuc.edu>
References: <Pine.BSF.4.10.9911022030550.97023-100000@www.apriori.net>
Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.19991102213823.00b342c0@pop.gv2.com>

Hello!


I got this Mailman bug when opening the Membership Management - when trying 
to open 30,000+ Email addresses list.

But, I didn't have any problems with smaller mailing lists (2,000, 6,200).

Can you help me on how to fix this bug?

Thanks,

Robert
..............................

Bug in Mailman version 1.0rc3
We're sorry, we hit a bug!
If you would like to help us identify the problem, please email a copy of 
this page to
the webmaster for this site with a description of what happened. Thanks!
Traceback:

Traceback (innermost last):
File "/home/mailman/scripts/driver", line 112, in run_main
main()
File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/admin.py", line 168, in main
FormatConfiguration(doc, lst, category, category_suffix)
File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/admin.py", line 306, in FormatConfiguration
form.AddItem(FormatOptionsSection(category, lst))
File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/admin.py", line 321, in FormatOptionsSection
return FormatMembershipOptions(lst)
File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/admin.py", line 546, in 
FormatMembershipOptions
mtext = '%s' % (
File "/home/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 186, in GetAbsoluteOptionsURL
addr = string.lower(addr)
TypeError: read-only buffer, None







From oguz at smartmedia.ch  Wed Nov  3 08:49:57 1999
From: oguz at smartmedia.ch (Oguz Demirkapi)
Date: Wed, 03 Nov 1999 08:49:57 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Delay
In-Reply-To: <19991101132816.S12435@zork.net>
References: <381D70BA1EC.3B14OGUZ@mail.cybernet-ag.de> <19991101132816.S12435@zork.net>
Message-ID: <381FE92540.8D7DOGUZ@mail.cybernet-ag.de>

Hi,

Can you explain what I have to do incase of this delay.

nick> Quoting Oguz Demirkapi:
nick> > I installed  Mailman 1.0 and it was running perfect.
nick> > 
nick> > But now when I send a msg to a list, I can see my msg in the list
nick> > archive but it does not deliver msg to the users.
nick> 
nick>         I had this problem when my MTA was misconfigured so that it
nick> wouldn't relay mail from localhost.  Try allowing mail relays from
nick> localhost.
nick> 
nick> -- 
nick> ((lambda (x) (list x (list (quote quote) x)))
nick> (quote (lambda (x) (list x (list (quote quote) x)))))
nick> 	-- A LISP quine written by Seth David Schoen
nick> +++ath
nick> 

? ? ?


And I have one more question :
I send a attached img file and users get this file correctly.
But how can I show this img file in list archive web page as an img.

Thanks !

Tarantor



From george at bashiri.net  Wed Nov  3 11:09:30 1999
From: george at bashiri.net (george)
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 1999 11:09:30 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: Mailman-Users -- confirmation of subscription -- request 305629
Message-ID: <003d01bf25e3$869ea110$b6865bd4@rtodto>


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From hamdi at cybermedia.com.bn  Tue Nov  2 23:50:53 1999
From: hamdi at cybermedia.com.bn (hamdi mulya)
Date: Wed, 03 Nov 1999 06:50:53 +0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailing List
Message-ID: <381F6ACD.FC15365D@cybermedia.com.bn>





From cbrown at sensis.com  Wed Nov  3 15:39:06 1999
From: cbrown at sensis.com (Charles Brown)
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 1999 09:39:06 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] POP3 Accounts
Message-ID: <000701bf2609$2ea9bbe0$5c0211ac@cbrown.syr.sensis.com>

All,

	This probably a terribly dumb question, but...

	In using Mailman, do I need to create a POP3
account for each mail list?  This seems to be my
admin's biggest argument against using MLM's.

--
Charles Brown            e-mail cbrown at sensis.com
Sensis Corporation       phone  315.445.5744
5793 Widewaters Pkwy     fax    315.445.9401
DeWitt, NY 13214         www    http://www.sensis.com
USA                      intra  http://cbrown




From martin at kanon.net  Wed Nov  3 17:05:02 1999
From: martin at kanon.net (Martin)
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 1999 17:05:02 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] POP3 Accounts
In-Reply-To: <000701bf2609$2ea9bbe0$5c0211ac@cbrown.syr.sensis.com>
References: <000701bf2609$2ea9bbe0$5c0211ac@cbrown.syr.sensis.com>
Message-ID: <5711.991103@kanon.net>

Hi

CB>         This probably a terribly dumb question, but...

The only dumb questions, are those we never find any answers to!  :)

CB>         In using Mailman, do I need to create a POP3
CB> account for each mail list?

No! - you need one - and then you need to make an entry for each list
in the aliases file! (look in the documentation for an example on this
- there is a pretty good walkthrough on how to create a mailing list
called test)

'Martin





From jfesler at gigo.com  Wed Nov  3 17:26:30 1999
From: jfesler at gigo.com (jfesler at gigo.com)
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 1999 08:26:30 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] POP3 Accounts
In-Reply-To: <000701bf2609$2ea9bbe0$5c0211ac@cbrown.syr.sensis.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.9911030826020.462-100000@heaven.gigo.com>

> 	In using Mailman, do I need to create a POP3
> account for each mail list?  This seems to be my
> admin's biggest argument against using MLM's.

Naive admin.

You do need to set up *aliaes*.  However, you only need one true account,
and of that, pop3 is not involved.





From esj at harvee.billerica.ma.us  Wed Nov  3 17:36:04 1999
From: esj at harvee.billerica.ma.us (Eric S. Johansson)
Date: Wed, 03 Nov 1999 11:36:04 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] archive (in)security
Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.19991103113225.00b86bd0@harvee.billerica.ma.us>

is there any way I can limit access to a mailing list's archives to only 
subscribers?  if I make the list archive private, it vanishes from access 
by all.

I'm using mailman v1.0 rc2.

--- eric

Eric S Johansson	esj at inguide.com	  esj at harvee.billerica.ma.us
This message was composed using NaturallySpeaking.




From menger at dhs.org  Thu Nov  4 04:09:27 1999
From: menger at dhs.org (menger at dhs.org)
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 11:09:27 +0800 (CST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman on FreeBSD
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.9911041107400.24476-100000@home.enger.org>

Hello,
	I was wondering if anyone had had any sucess running maiman on
FreeBSD 3.x? I have tried but when I send a message to the list python
goes zombie. 

	Please not that I am running qmail which may (but I doubt it) be
causing the problem. I did compile with --with-mail-gid='id -g alias'
which works on linux. 

	If anyone has got it to work or has an idea I would really
appricate some help.
	
	from,
		Matthew Enger
		menger at dhs.org




From jread at semiotek.com  Thu Nov  4 04:42:43 1999
From: jread at semiotek.com (Justin Wells)
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 1999 22:42:43 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] duplicate messages
Message-ID: <19991103224243.A2496@semiotek.com>

I am still having duplicate message problems. I think, though, that I have
a bit more information now than before. 

My own messages are much more likely to cause duplicates than anyone 
elses. The difference is that I am a local user on the machine, so 
my messages often wind up getting delivered to mailman as:

    From: justin

whereas everyone else would have an @ sign and an address. I think this 
breaks something. The consequence of this breaking is that the delivery
process hangs after delivering most of the mail, at the end of the 
delivery. This hung process will stick around forever--until I reboot
the machine. At that point somehow mailman detects that the mail was 
not delivered properly (it gets a bounce?) and it resends a whole 
batch of mail out--to people who have already received it.

I think there are two bugs here:

   #1- mailman not coping with my local mail address
   #2- mailman aggressively sending out mail

Please help!

Justin




From christopher at schulte.org  Thu Nov  4 06:43:50 1999
From: christopher at schulte.org (Christopher Schulte)
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 1999 23:43:50 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] POP3 Accounts
In-Reply-To: <5711.991103@kanon.net>
References: <000701bf2609$2ea9bbe0$5c0211ac@cbrown.syr.sensis.com> <5711.991103@kanon.net>
Message-ID: <19991103234350.A12263@schulte.org>

Um.......... no.  You do *not* need to create any 'pop' accounts
for every list you serve with mailman.

You do need to create some alias entries for your MTA, but
that does not have to mean that a pop account is also created.

On Wed, Nov 03, 1999 at 05:05:02PM +0100, Martin wrote:
> Hi
> 
> CB>         This probably a terribly dumb question, but...
> 
> The only dumb questions, are those we never find any answers to!  :)
> 
> CB>         In using Mailman, do I need to create a POP3
> CB> account for each mail list?
> 
> No! - you need one - and then you need to make an entry for each list
> in the aliases file! (look in the documentation for an example on this
> - there is a pretty good walkthrough on how to create a mailing list
> called test)
> 
> 'Martin
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users maillist  -  Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users

-- 
I am Chris.  Hi.
<!--#include mail="christopher at schulte.org" -->
<!--#include name="Christopher Schulte" -->
<!--#include site="www.schulte.org" -->



From jerrya at fastrans.net  Thu Nov  4 07:12:12 1999
From: jerrya at fastrans.net (Jerry Adlersfluegel)
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 00:12:12 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] archive (in)security
In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.19991103113225.00b86bd0@harvee.billerica.ma.us>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.10.9911040010490.9875-100000@jerrya.fastrans.net>

On Wed, 3 Nov 1999, Eric S. Johansson wrote:

> is there any way I can limit access to a mailing list's archives to only 
> subscribers?  if I make the list archive private, it vanishes from access 
> by all.
> 
> I'm using mailman v1.0 rc2.

I have a list with private archives, and each user can log in and view the
archives just fine. This is with 1.0, but I don't remember anything about
rc2 that broke that.

-- 
Jerry Adlersfluegel




From vit at lipetsk.ru  Thu Nov  4 12:06:38 1999
From: vit at lipetsk.ru (Victor Gamov)
Date: Thu, 04 Nov 1999 14:06:38 +0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman on FreeBSD
References: <Pine.BSF.4.10.9911041107400.24476-100000@home.enger.org>
Message-ID: <382168BE.82283FE1@lipetsk.ru>

menger at dhs.org wrote:
> 
> Hello,
>         I was wondering if anyone had had any sucess running maiman on
> FreeBSD 3.x? I have tried but when I send a message to the list python
> goes zombie.
> 
>         Please not that I am running qmail which may (but I doubt it) be
> causing the problem. I did compile with --with-mail-gid='id -g alias'
> which works on linux.
> 
>         If anyone has got it to work or has an idea I would really
> appricate some help.

	I have problem with Mailman on FreeBSD-3.x too.  When I tried to send
big message (more than 16K) to the list 
my MTA (Zmailer) goes done after timeout during reciving message.

	I think that we have problem with Pythin on FreeBSD.
	
--
	CU, Victor Gamov



From esj at harvee.billerica.ma.us  Thu Nov  4 13:05:43 1999
From: esj at harvee.billerica.ma.us (Eric S. Johansson)
Date: Thu, 04 Nov 1999 07:05:43 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] archive (in)security
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.10.9911040010490.9875-100000@jerrya.fastrans.ne
 t>
References: <4.2.0.58.19991103113225.00b86bd0@harvee.billerica.ma.us>
Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.19991104070308.00c2f530@harvee.billerica.ma.us>

At 01:12 AM 11/4/1999 , Jerry Adlersfluegel wrote:
>On Wed, 3 Nov 1999, Eric S. Johansson wrote:
>
> > is there any way I can limit access to a mailing list's archives to only
> > subscribers?  if I make the list archive private, it vanishes from access
> > by all.
> >
> > I'm using mailman v1.0 rc2.
>
>I have a list with private archives, and each user can log in and view the
>archives just fine. This is with 1.0, but I don't remember anything about
>rc2 that broke that.

umm.  I went back and checked my configuration just to be sure and found 
that I had fat fingered the privacy option for the archives.  my face is red..

--- eric

Eric S Johansson	esj at inguide.com	  esj at harvee.billerica.ma.us
This message was composed using NaturallySpeaking.




From oguz at smartmedia.ch  Thu Nov  4 13:23:18 1999
From: oguz at smartmedia.ch (Oguz Demirkapi)
Date: Thu, 04 Nov 1999 13:23:18 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Show attached img in archive page
Message-ID: <38217AB6192.8FAEOGUZ@mail.cybernet-ag.de>

Hi,

I send a attached img file and users get this file correctly.

But 

how can I show this img file in list archive web page as an img like in
a normal web page.



Thanks !

Tarantor



From pjh at mccc.edu  Thu Nov  4 22:53:35 1999
From: pjh at mccc.edu (Pete Holsberg)
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 16:53:35 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Sendmail error or mailman error?
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.10.9911041651190.5583-100000@tecoma.mccc.edu>

I installed mailman, and created a test mailing list.

I subscribed an alter ego account, and replied to the
ensuing message.

The result was:

The original message was received at Thu, 4 Nov 1999 16:48:53 -0500
from tecoma.mccc.edu [198.133.170.1]

   ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----
"|/home/mailman/mail/wrapper mailcmd test"
    (expanded from: <test-request at listserv.mccc.edu>)

   ----- Transcript of session follows -----
554 "|/home/mailman/mail/wrapper mailcmd test"... unknown mailer error 2



/etc/aliases contains:

#
# Mailman
#
mailman: pjh at mccc.edu
mailman-owner: mailman
#
## test mailing list
## created: 04-Nov-1999 root
test:                    "|/home/mailman/mail/wrapper post test"
test-admin:              "|/home/mailman/mail/wrapper mailowner test"
test-request:            "|/home/mailman/mail/wrapper mailcmd test"
owner-test:              test-admin
test-owner:              test-admin
#

Is the error in mailman or sendmail?

Thanks,
Pete




From lindsey at ncsa.uiuc.edu  Thu Nov  4 23:07:03 1999
From: lindsey at ncsa.uiuc.edu (Christopher Lindsey)
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 16:07:03 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Sendmail error or mailman error?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.10.9911041651190.5583-100000@tecoma.mccc.edu> from "Pete Holsberg" at Nov 4, 99 04:53:35 pm
Message-ID: <199911042207.QAA03872@ferret.ncsa.uiuc.edu>

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From pjh at mccc.edu  Thu Nov  4 23:14:37 1999
From: pjh at mccc.edu (Pete Holsberg)
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 17:14:37 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Sendmail error or mailman error?
In-Reply-To: <199911042207.QAA03872@ferret.ncsa.uiuc.edu>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.10.9911041712080.5686-100000@tecoma.mccc.edu>

On Thu, 4 Nov 1999, Christopher Lindsey wrote:

> >    ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----
> > "|/home/mailman/mail/wrapper mailcmd test"
> >     (expanded from: <test-request at listserv.mccc.edu>)
> > 
> >    ----- Transcript of session follows -----
> > 554 "|/home/mailman/mail/wrapper mailcmd test"... unknown mailer error 2
> > 
> > Is the error in mailman or sendmail?
> 
> Probably sendmail.  I'm guessing that you're using a
> system with smrsh (sendmail restricted shell) installed
> (i.e. RedHat 5+).  If that's the case, you probably have
> a directory called /etc/smrsh.  If so:
> 
>    cd /etc/smrsh
>    ln -s /home/mailman/mail/wrapper
> 
> That will tell sendmail that you want to let it run
> 'wrapper'.  You need to do the same thing for any other
> binaries that you want to run out of your aliases or
> .forward files.

Actually we're running Debian (intending to upgrade to RH
soon) and there's no /etc/smrsh.

Thanks,
Pete




From lindsey at ncsa.uiuc.edu  Thu Nov  4 23:20:00 1999
From: lindsey at ncsa.uiuc.edu (Christopher Lindsey)
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 16:20:00 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Sendmail error or mailman error?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.10.9911041712080.5686-100000@tecoma.mccc.edu> from "Pete Holsberg" at Nov 4, 99 05:14:37 pm
Message-ID: <199911042220.QAA04000@ferret.ncsa.uiuc.edu>

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From jfesler at gigo.com  Thu Nov  4 23:34:57 1999
From: jfesler at gigo.com (jfesler at gigo.com)
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 14:34:57 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Sendmail error or mailman error?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.10.9911041651190.5583-100000@tecoma.mccc.edu>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.9911041434250.462-100000@heaven.gigo.com>

>    ----- Transcript of session follows -----
> 554 "|/home/mailman/mail/wrapper mailcmd test"... unknown mailer error 2

check syslog.  you should see a complaint about user or group ID's not
matching and aborting.  





From pjh at mccc.edu  Fri Nov  5 00:34:53 1999
From: pjh at mccc.edu (Pete Holsberg)
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 18:34:53 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Sendmail error or mailman error?
In-Reply-To: <199911042220.QAA04000@ferret.ncsa.uiuc.edu>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.10.9911041834090.8349-100000@tecoma.mccc.edu>

On Thu, 4 Nov 1999, Christopher Lindsey wrote:

> > > Probably sendmail.  I'm guessing that you're using a
> > > system with smrsh (sendmail restricted shell) installed
> > > (i.e. RedHat 5+).  If that's the case, you probably have
> > > a directory called /etc/smrsh.  If so:
> > > 
> > >    cd /etc/smrsh
> > >    ln -s /home/mailman/mail/wrapper
> > > 
> > > That will tell sendmail that you want to let it run
> > > 'wrapper'.  You need to do the same thing for any other
> > > binaries that you want to run out of your aliases or
> > > .forward files.
> > 
> > Actually we're running Debian (intending to upgrade to RH
> > soon) and there's no /etc/smrsh.
> 
> OK.  grep for 'smrsh' in your sendmail.cf.  That should tell you
> the location of your smrsh binary.  Then run strings on the
> binary.   i.e. 
> 
>    foreach i (`strings /usr/bin/smrsh | grep ^/`)
>       ls -ld $i | grep ^d
>    end
> 
> The output should list any directories that smrsh was compiled to
> use, and hopefully it will be obvious which one is appropriate.

Thanks, Chris, but smrsh doesn't appear in sendmail.cf.

Pete




From pjh at mccc.edu  Fri Nov  5 00:41:47 1999
From: pjh at mccc.edu (Pete Holsberg)
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 18:41:47 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Sendmail error or mailman error?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.9911041434250.462-100000@heaven.gigo.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.10.9911041839570.8523-100000@tecoma.mccc.edu>

On Thu, 4 Nov 1999 jfesler at gigo.com wrote:

> >    ----- Transcript of session follows -----
> > 554 "|/home/mailman/mail/wrapper mailcmd test"... unknown mailer error 2
> 
> check syslog.  you should see a complaint about user or group ID's not
> matching and aborting.  

syslog said that it didn't like the gid if the mail
wrapper, so I reconfigured and resent the message.

Now I get:

  ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----
"|/home/mailman/mail/wrapper mailcmd test"
    (expanded from: <test-request at listserv.mccc.edu>)

   ----- Transcript of session follows -----
Traceback (innermost last):
  File "/home/mailman/scripts/mailcmd", line 49, in ?
    list = MailList.MailList(sys.argv[1])
  File "/home/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 61, in __init__
    self.Load()
  File "/home/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 802, in Load
    raise Errors.MMBadListError, 'Failed to access config info'
MMBadListError: Failed to access config info
554 "|/home/mailman/mail/wrapper mailcmd test"... unknown mailer error 1


Any ideas?

Thanks,
Pete




From m.keller at orcasoft.ch  Fri Nov  5 13:17:15 1999
From: m.keller at orcasoft.ch (Markus Keller)
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 13:17:15 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problems with sendmail
Message-ID: <001501bf2787$ce9b0f80$1ce1e6c2@markus.orcasoft.ch>

Hi List

I' am a new member of the list and I have just installed mailman on my server. The web pages work
fine but when i send a message to a list sendmail sends me an error message:

unknown mailer 554 "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/wrapper mailowner mylist"

I have also made all entries in my alias file. I used majordomo before mailman and i never had a
problem with sendmail. Do I have to add a M configuration file declaration in my sendmail.cf file? I
were very glad for all kinds of tips that help me to solve my problem.

greetings

Markus






From pjh at mccc.edu  Fri Nov  5 18:04:30 1999
From: pjh at mccc.edu (Pete Holsberg)
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 12:04:30 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help!
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.10.9911051201490.27396-100000@tecoma.mccc.edu>

What is the name of the CGI wrapper program?

I deleted everything from /home/mailman and did a 

./configure --with-mail-gid=8 --with-cgi-gid=60001

I then did a make install and created a test list with me
as admin. I went to the URL in the email that was sent and
it says:

The expected gid of the Mailman CGI wrapper did not match
the gid as set by the Web server.

The most likely cause is that Mailman was configured and
installed incorrectly. Please read the INSTALL instructions
again, paying close attention to the --with-cgi-gid
configure option. This entry is being stored in your
syslog: 

Failure to exec script. WANTED gid 60001, GOT gid 70. 
(Reconfigure to take 70?)


What does "WANTED gid 60001" mean?

What does "GOT gid 70" mean?

Thanks,
Pete




From bwarsaw at cnri.reston.va.us  Sat Nov  6 06:15:06 1999
From: bwarsaw at cnri.reston.va.us (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Sat, 6 Nov 1999 00:15:06 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Announcing Mailman 1.1
Message-ID: <14371.47450.186806.711568@anthem.cnri.reston.va.us>

I have just uploaded Mailman version 1.1 to www.list.org, and this
will hopefully soon be mirrored to ftp.gnu.org.  This release is
precipitated by the removal of all GIFs from the distribution.  There
have also been some performance improvements, although lots more can
still be done. ;)

See the NEWS file excerpt below for details of changes.  Sadly, the
internationalization effort has not yet been integrated (mostly due to
time constraints of the core maintainers).

Mailman, the GNU mailing list manager, is software to help manage
email discussion lists, much like Majordomo and Smartmail.  Unlike
most similar products, Mailman gives each mailing list a web page, and
allows users to subscribe, unsubscribe, etc. over the web.  Even the
list manager can administer his or her list entirely from the web.
Mailman also integrates most things people want to do with mailing
lists, including archiving, mail-to-news gateways, and so on.  Mailman
is writtein primarily in Python, with a little bit of C for security.

See http://www.list.org or
http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman.html for details and
downloading.

-Barry

-------------------- snip snip --------------------
- All GIFs removed.  See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/gif.html for
  the reason why.

- Improvements to the Pipermail archiver which make things faster.
  Primary change is that the .txt files are not gzip'd on every posted
  message.  Instead, use the new cron script `nightly_gzip' to gzip
  the .txt file in batches (this means that the .txt file will lag
  behind the on-line archives a little).

- From the C drivers programs, Python is invoked with the -S option.
  This tells Python to avoid importing the site module, which can
  improve start up time of the Python process considerably.  Note that
  the command line script invocation has not been changed.

- New configuration variables PUBLIC_EXTERNAL_ARCHIVER and
  PRIVATE_EXTERNAL_ARCHIVER which can contain a shell command string
  for os.popen().  This can be used to invoke an external archiver
  instead of the bundled Pipermail archiver.  See Defaults.py for
  details.

- new script `bin/find_member' which can be used to search for a
  member by regular expression.

- More child processes are reaped, which should eliminate most
  occurances of zombie processes.

- A few small miscellaneous bug fixes (including PR#99, PR#107) and
  improvements to the file locking algorithms.
-------------------- snip snip --------------------

<p><a href="http://www.list.org/">Mailman 1.1</a> - the GNU mailing
list manager, implemented primarily in Python.  (05-Nov-1999)



From Robert at Baskerville.Net  Sat Nov  6 22:54:38 1999
From: Robert at Baskerville.Net (Robert Baskerville)
Date: Sat, 6 Nov 1999 21:54:38 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] multi domain usage
Message-ID: <9362.9911062154@mcchpd.mcc.ac.uk>

Hi,

How difficult is it to persuade Mailman to cope with lists located in
different domains (ie one machine handling various lists in various
domains)?

I've seen a couple of solutions to this for Majordomo (an ugly one
I came up with, and a far more elegant one from someone else); anyone
tried/suceeded with Mailman?

Robert Baskerville



From jmackenzie at local.ie  Mon Nov  8 12:37:58 1999
From: jmackenzie at local.ie (John MacKenzie)
Date: Mon, 8 Nov 1999 11:37:58 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem with a List
Message-ID: <9911081140150G.05459@samsara.merrion.nua.net>

I Created a New list for mailman and entered the Aliases info as Follows:
## monaghan-musings mailing list
## created: 08-Nov-1999 mailman
monaghan-musings:        "|/home/mailman/mail/wrapper post monaghan-musings"
monaghan-musings-admin:  "|/home/mailman/mail/wrapper mailowner monaghan-musings"
monaghan-musings-request: "|/home/mailman/mail/wrapper mailcmd monaghan-musings"
owner-monaghan-musings:  monaghan-musings-admin
monaghan-musings-owner:  monaghan-musings-admin


The list was created using the  newlist binary .

When a mail is sent to this address I recieve An error stating that the user is
unknown.
Was There anything I should have done after the list creation?
Thanks For your time
Regards
- John



-- 
John MacKenzie | Unix Systems Admin | e: mailto:jmackenzie at local.ie
___________________________________________________________________
Stay in touch your local area through Local Ireland
http://longford.local.ie/general/longford_news/ 
___________________________________________________________________
local ireland  | dublin  |  new york  |  http://www.local.ie




From christopher at schulte.org  Mon Nov  8 19:33:09 1999
From: christopher at schulte.org (Christopher Schulte)
Date: Mon, 08 Nov 1999 12:33:09 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem with a List
In-Reply-To: <9911081140150G.05459@samsara.merrion.nua.net>
Message-ID: <4.2.1.19991108123118.0248be70@pop.schulte.org>

At 11:37 AM 11/8/1999 +0000, you wrote:
 >When a mail is sent to this address I recieve An error stating that the 
user is
 >unknown.
 >Was There anything I should have done after the list creation?
 >Thanks For your time
 >Regards

Just a suggestion, but did do you need to rebuild your alias table 
manually?  Sendmail uses `newaliases` to do this, and other MTAs may use 
other commands to do this.

 >- John

--
NAME: Christopher Schulte
MAIL: christopher at schulte.org
SITE: http://www.schulte.org/
FINGER(PGP): christopher at schulte.org

"starfuckers
starfuckers
starfuckers, inc."
--Trent Reznor, Nine Inch Nails HALO 13




From dill at umbi.umd.edu  Mon Nov  8 20:49:49 1999
From: dill at umbi.umd.edu (Jonathan F. Dill)
Date: Mon, 08 Nov 1999 14:49:49 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] archives search engine?
Message-ID: <3827295D.5FDDDABC@umbi.umd.edu>

Greetings,

Has anyone tried setting up a search engine such as Webglimpse
http://tucson.com/webglimpse/ to search mailman list archives?  Any
suggestions?

A couple more issues that I'll probably put into separate posts later:

Handling e-mail to listserv@ or majordomo@:  Is there some alias that
people having been setting up with mailman to handle mail sent to those
addresses, like maybe some bogus list like "mailman-info" rather than
sending explicitly to some-list-request@?

Multiple From: addresses--I use 2 different From: addresses, one for
home, and one for work (but all incoming e-mail is delivered to a single
IMAP server that I use to read my mail).  When I'm the admin of the
list, it's easy enough to specify that mail from the other address is
OK, but when I'm not the admin (such as for this list, for example) the
simplest approach I could think of was to subscribe both addresses and
set one to "nomail" though it remains to be seen if I can still send
messages when the "From:" address is set to nomail.  If I can still send
mail when my address is set to nomail, should that be considered a
serious loophole for spammers i.e. they could subscribe to the list and
set nomail and then spam away while ignoring the posts to the list.

-- 
"Jonathan F. Dill" (dill at umbi.umd.edu)
CARB Systems and Network Administrator
Home Page:  http://www.umbi.umd.edu/~dill



From gaston at esc.edu.ar  Mon Nov  8 21:45:47 1999
From: gaston at esc.edu.ar (Gaston Franco)
Date: Mon, 08 Nov 1999 17:45:47 -0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] basic questions
Message-ID: <3827367B.7D720CB0@esc.edu.ar>

hi! .

1) how do a list administrator approve postings or subscriptios 
   through mail (like majordomo or listserv do) ?
  ( I know how to do this through web interface .)

2) Is there any "List Administrator's Manual" available ?

Thanks in advanced.  ( I appologize for my english...)
-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Gaston Adrian Franco                         e-mail: gaston at esc.edu.ar

RedEs - Red de Escuelas              Ministerio de Cultura y Educacion
Pizurno 935 - 2do piso (c/frente)                TE: 4811-3529 int 108
----------------------------------------------------------------------



From awray at etexcom.net  Mon Nov  8 21:55:08 1999
From: awray at etexcom.net (Alan W. Ray)
Date: Mon, 8 Nov 1999 14:55:08 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Subscription results invalid
Message-ID: <99110815004607.00870@boss.etexcom.net>

I am having a problem with the Web submission requests using Mailman. 
>From the list info page, when an e-mail address and password is
entered, the Subscription result page resturns:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Test Subscription results

You must supply a valid email address.
You must supply a valid password, and confirm it.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Everything else seems to work great with Mailman.  Admin's tweaks, etc
from the web interface work as do all commands/posts/etc sent via
e-mail.  Can someone please give me a pointer as to what to look for in
correcting this?

-- 
****************************
Alan W. Ray <|> ICQ #2994497
****************************



From lindsey at ncsa.uiuc.edu  Mon Nov  8 22:13:36 1999
From: lindsey at ncsa.uiuc.edu (Christopher Lindsey)
Date: Mon, 8 Nov 1999 15:13:36 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] archives search engine?
In-Reply-To: <3827295D.5FDDDABC@umbi.umd.edu> from "Jonathan F. Dill" at Nov 8, 99 02:49:49 pm
Message-ID: <199911082113.PAA29499@ferret.ncsa.uiuc.edu>

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From ckolar at admin.aurora.edu  Mon Nov  8 23:20:11 1999
From: ckolar at admin.aurora.edu (Christopher Kolar)
Date: Mon, 08 Nov 1999 16:20:11 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] basic questions
References: <3827367B.7D720CB0@esc.edu.ar>
Message-ID: <38274C9B.414C331@admin.aurora.edu>

Gaston Franco wrote:

> 2) Is there any "List Administrator's Manual" available ?
>

There is a draft available at www.aurora.edu/~ckolar/mailman -- I should have a revised version available by the end of the week, I need to look at the new 1.1 release to make sure that nothing significant has changed.

--chris

--
/////\\\\\/////\\\\\
 Christopher G. Kolar
   Director of Instructional Technology
   Aurora University, Aurora, Illinois
 ckolar at admin.aurora.edu  --  www.aurora.edu
        [PGP Public Key ID: 0xC6492C72]


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From ptomblin at xcski.com  Tue Nov  9 05:17:57 1999
From: ptomblin at xcski.com (Paul Tomblin)
Date: Mon, 8 Nov 1999 23:17:57 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Converting majordomo archives
Message-ID: <19991108231757.B6786@xcski.com>

I searched through the archives for this list, and I can't figure out how to
convert majordomo archives to mailman archives.  I've got a bunch of lists,
and they all have huge archives, usually split by day or month.  I realize
that 'arch' is involved somehow, but I'm not sure what I feed to it.

Documentation for this thing seems a little bit light.  Is there a project to
document it better?

-- 
Paul Tomblin, not speaking for anybody.
SETI at Home:  Finally a *good* way to impress Jodie Foster
http://www.setiathome.ssl.berkeley.edu/



From ptomblin at xcski.com  Tue Nov  9 05:28:06 1999
From: ptomblin at xcski.com (Paul Tomblin)
Date: Mon, 8 Nov 1999 23:28:06 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Converting majordomo archives
In-Reply-To: <19991108231757.B6786@xcski.com>; from Paul Tomblin on Mon, Nov 08, 1999 at 11:17:57PM -0500
References: <19991108231757.B6786@xcski.com>
Message-ID: <19991108232806.A16798@xcski.com>

Quoting Paul Tomblin (ptomblin at xcski.com):
> I searched through the archives for this list, and I can't figure out how to
> convert majordomo archives to mailman archives.  I've got a bunch of lists,
> and they all have huge archives, usually split by day or month.  I realize
> that 'arch' is involved somehow, but I'm not sure what I feed to it.

Oh, never mind.  I just tried feeding one file at a time, and it worked
perfectly.

-- 
Paul Tomblin, not speaking for anybody.
SETI at Home:  Finally a *good* way to impress Jodie Foster
http://www.setiathome.ssl.berkeley.edu/



From dayton at overx.com  Tue Nov  9 08:43:53 1999
From: dayton at overx.com (Soren Dayton)
Date: 09 Nov 1999 01:43:53 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] NOT sending password stuff to certain users?
Message-ID: <8666zcf6ti.fsf@polo.overx.com>

Hi,

I want to archive to a certain mail address (off site).  If I simply
subscribe the user, then I have to write an extra script to check to
make sure that password reminders are not archived (on the web in this 
case).  Could there be a mechanism by which PARTICULAR users are _NOT_ 
to recieve passwords?

Thanks
Soren



From ptomblin at xcski.com  Tue Nov  9 12:42:58 1999
From: ptomblin at xcski.com (Paul Tomblin)
Date: Tue, 9 Nov 1999 06:42:58 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bug in nightly cron job
Message-ID: <19991109064258.A7060@xcski.com>

First night running mailman, and I don't know python yet.  What does this
mean?

----- Forwarded message from Cron Daemon <root at xcski.com> -----
Date: Tue, 9 Nov 1999 03:27:01 -0500
From: root at xcski.com (Cron Daemon)
To: mailman at xcski.com
Subject: Cron <mailman at piper> /usr/bin/python /usr/home/mailman/cron/nightly_gzip

Traceback (innermost last):
  File "/usr/home/mailman/cron/nightly_gzip", line 143, in ?
    main()
  File "/usr/home/mailman/cron/nightly_gzip", line 114, in main
    time.strptime(f, '%Y-%B.txt')
AttributeError: strptime

----- End forwarded message -----

-- 
Paul Tomblin, not speaking for anybody.
SETI at Home:  Finally a *good* way to impress Jodie Foster
http://www.setiathome.ssl.berkeley.edu/



From ptomblin at xcski.com  Tue Nov  9 13:18:19 1999
From: ptomblin at xcski.com (Paul Tomblin)
Date: Tue, 9 Nov 1999 07:18:19 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Questions from a majordomo user
Message-ID: <19991109071819.B7060@xcski.com>

A couple of questions as I transition my lists from majordomo to mailman:

- One of the things I do with my majordomo lists is I have a list of alternative
addresses that people post from, as well as the ones they actually receive
email at.  I maintain those lists manually, which isn't too onerous.  Can I do
something similar with mailman, or do I have to get all the subscribers to
subscribe their alternate email addresses and disable mail delivery for those
addresses?  Since it's *me* that's going to have to do the work to approve
their posts, they don't have much incentive to do that.  How do others do
this?

- Is there a way to approve posts via email?  Under majordomo, I got an email
notification of an unapproved post, and I just hit "|approve" to pipe it
through a script that approves it.  I find that a lot easier than going to a
web page.

- Is there any way to make digests less frequent than daily?  I have some
lists that some people have expressed a preference for weekly digests.


-- 
Paul Tomblin, not speaking for anybody.
SETI at Home:  Finally a *good* way to impress Jodie Foster
http://www.setiathome.ssl.berkeley.edu/



From les at 2pi.com  Tue Nov  9 16:20:15 1999
From: les at 2pi.com (Les Niles)
Date: Tue, 9 Nov 1999 07:20:15 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: Mailman-Users digest, Vol 1 #382 - 9 msgs
In-Reply-To: <199911090608.BAA00577@python.org>
	(mailman-users-admin@python.org)
References: <199911090608.BAA00577@python.org>
Message-ID: <199911091520.HAA17382@deception.camlyn.com>

On Mon, 08 Nov 1999 14:49:49 -0500 (EST) "Jonathan F. Dill" <dill at umbi.umd.edu> wrote:
>Greetings,
>
>Has anyone tried setting up a search engine such as Webglimpse
>http://tucson.com/webglimpse/ to search mailman list archives?  Any
>suggestions?

I run Wilma (ftp://ftp.hpc.uh.edu/pub/wilma/) on top of Mailman.
It seems to work pretty much right out of the box.  Wilma uses
Glimpse for searching and MHonArc
(http://www.oac.uci.edu/indiv/ehood/mhonarc.html) 
for maintaining the archive.  By configuring so that the index and
archive files are accessed through Mailman's cgi-bin/private
mechanism, the subscriber/password protection on the archives
works.

  -les



From bwarsaw at cnri.reston.va.us  Tue Nov  9 16:37:11 1999
From: bwarsaw at cnri.reston.va.us (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Tue, 9 Nov 1999 10:37:11 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bug in nightly cron job
References: <19991109064258.A7060@xcski.com>
Message-ID: <14376.16295.512683.651341@anthem.cnri.reston.va.us>

>>>>> "PT" == Paul Tomblin <ptomblin at xcski.com> writes:

    PT> First night running mailman, and I don't know python yet.
    PT> What does this mean?

What version of Python are you using?  I think strptime was added
after Python 1.5.1 so I would suggest you upgrade to 1.5.2.  It's also
possible your underlying operating system doesn't have a strptime.

-Barry



From ptomblin at xcski.com  Tue Nov  9 17:51:59 1999
From: ptomblin at xcski.com (Paul Tomblin)
Date: Tue, 9 Nov 1999 11:51:59 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bug in nightly cron job
In-Reply-To: <14376.16295.512683.651341@anthem.cnri.reston.va.us>; from Barry A. Warsaw on Tue, Nov 09, 1999 at 10:37:11AM -0500
References: <19991109064258.A7060@xcski.com> <14376.16295.512683.651341@anthem.cnri.reston.va.us>
Message-ID: <19991109115159.C3572@xcski.com>

Quoting Barry A. Warsaw (bwarsaw at cnri.reston.va.us):
> 
> >>>>> "PT" == Paul Tomblin <ptomblin at xcski.com> writes:
> 
>     PT> First night running mailman, and I don't know python yet.
>     PT> What does this mean?
> 
> What version of Python are you using?  I think strptime was added
> after Python 1.5.1 so I would suggest you upgrade to 1.5.2.  It's also
> possible your underlying operating system doesn't have a strptime.

I'm using RedHat Linux 6.0.  It's claiming it's using python 1.5.1.
    $ rpm -q python
    python-1.5.1-10

man strptime shows that there is one in the C library.

I'll try 1.5.2.  Shouldn't configure check for this sort of thing?  I know the
mod_perl configure checks for the appropriate perl version.

-- 
Paul Tomblin, not speaking for anybody.
SETI at Home:  Finally a *good* way to impress Jodie Foster
http://www.setiathome.ssl.berkeley.edu/



From bwarsaw at cnri.reston.va.us  Tue Nov  9 18:03:00 1999
From: bwarsaw at cnri.reston.va.us (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Tue, 9 Nov 1999 12:03:00 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bug in nightly cron job
References: <19991109064258.A7060@xcski.com>
	<14376.16295.512683.651341@anthem.cnri.reston.va.us>
	<19991109115159.C3572@xcski.com>
Message-ID: <14376.21444.430413.868856@anthem.cnri.reston.va.us>

>>>>> "PT" == Paul Tomblin <ptomblin at xcski.com> writes:

    PT> I'm using RedHat Linux 6.0.  It's claiming it's using python
    PT> 1.5.1.
    |     $ rpm -q python
    |     python-1.5.1-10

    PT> man strptime shows that there is one in the C library.

    PT> I'll try 1.5.2.  Shouldn't configure check for this sort of
    PT> thing?  I know the mod_perl configure checks for the
    PT> appropriate perl version.

Python's configure script definitely checks for this, but the problem
is that Mailman has a few Python 1.5.2-isms in the code, and strptime
wasn't added to Python until after 1.5.1.

I am seriously considering requiring Python 1.5.2 or better for the
next Mailman release.

-Barry



From ptomblin at xcski.com  Tue Nov  9 20:41:43 1999
From: ptomblin at xcski.com (Paul Tomblin)
Date: Tue, 9 Nov 1999 14:41:43 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bounce messages to Sender?
Message-ID: <19991109144143.A9530@xcski.com>

The bounce messages when I refuse a message from a non-member are going back
to the Sender, rather than the From.  Is that correct behaviour?  I ask
because my work account, where I'm testing this feature from, sets "Sender"
incorrectly.  If "From" doesn't override "Sender", does "Reply-To"?

-- 
Paul Tomblin, not speaking for anybody.
SETI at Home:  Finally a *good* way to impress Jodie Foster
http://www.setiathome.ssl.berkeley.edu/



From menger at dhs.org  Wed Nov 10 02:40:51 1999
From: menger at dhs.org (menger at dhs.org)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 09:40:51 +0800 (CST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman on FreeBSD
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.9911100939410.65321-100000@home.enger.org>

Hello,
	Just a quick note, I managed to get it working for those who where
using freebsd, compiling python from source rather then using the freebsd
python port seems to correct the problem. I think that the patches the
port maintainer applies to the python port are screwing things up. 

	from,
		Matthew Enger
		menger at dhs.org




From alfred at myrice.com  Wed Nov 10 04:13:10 1999
From: alfred at myrice.com (alfred)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 11:13:10 +0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] 554 "|/home/mailman/mail/wrapper mailowner test"... unknown mailer error 2
Message-ID: <013d01bf2b29$85ccaca0$2803080a@myrice.com>

Hi,
    Would you help me?
    After I install mailman with my FreeBSD 3.3 and Apache 1.3.9,
Sendmail 8.9.1a, when I mail to test-admin of maillist test , it run
error, Like this:

   ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----
"|/home/mailman/mail/wrapper mailowner test"
    (expanded from: <test-admin at xxx.xxxx.com>)

   ----- Transcript of session follows -----
554 "|/home/mailman/mail/wrapper mailowner test"... unknown mailer error 2


why or how to do?

bst rgds.




From jfesler at gigo.com  Wed Nov 10 04:30:16 1999
From: jfesler at gigo.com (jfesler at gigo.com)
Date: Tue, 9 Nov 1999 19:30:16 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] 554 "|/home/mailman/mail/wrapper mailowner
 test"... unknown mailer error 2
In-Reply-To: <013d01bf2b29$85ccaca0$2803080a@myrice.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.9911091928250.5303-100000@heaven.gigo.com>

>    ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----
..
> 554 "|/home/mailman/mail/wrapper mailowner test"... unknown mailer error 2

Check line 365 of the INSTALL file.




From gwalters at crash.une.edu.au  Wed Nov 10 20:58:59 1999
From: gwalters at crash.une.edu.au (Gareth)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 14:58:59 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Messages from an alias keep bouncing.
Message-ID: <19991110145859.A4177@crash.une.edu.au>

Reply-To: 
G'day all,
I have fiddled and read about this with no success.

I have a mailman list that receives mail from a list(majordomo)
 on another machine my list keeps bouncing these messages.

You don't have to be a member to send mail to the list.
I changed the allow from configuration etc but I can't seem to get it too work
 right is there something obvious I am missing (I hope so )


Thanks in advance for any help.


---Gareth



From kevin at maxson.com  Wed Nov 10 06:04:44 1999
From: kevin at maxson.com (Kevin of Thornbury)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 00:04:44 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Administration w/o site password?
Message-ID: <3828FCEC.7F6B3ECA@maxson.com>

I've created my first mailing list, but it doesn't seem like I can
administer it via the password that was sent to me.  I have to use the
site password.

Obviously, I want to have mailing list-specific passwords in order to
delegate administration to others without giving them the site password.

What am I missing? 
_____
|_|_|  Kevin of Thornbury
| | |  (Kevin Maxson)
 \|/   kevin at maxson.com   http://www.atlantia.sca.org



From doctor at kira.mcc.ac.uk  Wed Nov 10 11:09:58 1999
From: doctor at kira.mcc.ac.uk (Mike Richardson)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 10:09:58 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Cabalists and Users, A question of usage...
Message-ID: <19991110100958.K20833@kira.mcc.ac.uk>

Hi all,

A question to the writers and users of mailman. 

We are looking to use mailman for a large project and I need some
assurances to its pedigree, scalability, reliability and speed. 
We would want to know it could handle 1000+ lists, 200K members and
25,000 incoming messages per month with a possible 6 fold increase
over the next 5 years. 

Thus if anyone who has this level of usage can get in contact with me, or if
the writers could contact me and let me know of any testing to this level,
or sites which handle a similar load then I'd be grateful.

Obviously if it was used in such a project then we'd want to 
feed back as much as possible to the development of the product.

Thanks

Mike
-- 
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Copyright 1999 Mike Richardson, Rm G100D, Manchester Computing
University of Manchester, M13 9PL. doctor at mcc.ac.uk, 0161 275-6009
--------------------------------------------------------------------
"If I want your opinion, I'll beat it out of you!" - Chuck Norris
"If anything happens to my daughter I have a 45 and shovel" Clueless



From Robert at Baskerville.Net  Wed Nov 10 11:50:27 1999
From: Robert at Baskerville.Net (Robert Baskerville)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 10:50:27 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Cabalists and Users, A question of usage... 
Message-ID: <11347.9911101050@mcchpd.mcc.ac.uk>

Mike Richardson (Hi Mike!) wrote:
> We are looking to use mailman for a large project and I need some
> assurances to its pedigree, scalability, reliability and speed. 
> We would want to know it could handle 1000+ lists, 200K members and
> 25,000 incoming messages per month with a possible 6 fold increase
> over the next 5 years. 

I believe this project might also benefit from the facility of handling
lists in multiple domains on a single system. Has *nobody* tried this?

Robert Baskerville



From starback at ling.uu.se  Wed Nov 10 15:04:56 1999
From: starback at ling.uu.se (Per Starback)
Date: 10 Nov 1999 15:04:56 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Too many pending requests?
In-Reply-To: "Barry A. Warsaw"'s message of "Tue, 9 Nov 1999 12:03:00 -0500 (EST)"
Message-ID: <qzg0ye1lyv.fsf_-_@objekt.ling.uu.se>

I can't get to the pending request page for a mailing list.
(My web clients just say "waiting for response" and finally give up.)
I think it is because there are too many pending requests after some
problems.  (config.db is almost 10MB.)

How can I do this some other way?



From bwarsaw at cnri.reston.va.us  Wed Nov 10 17:26:16 1999
From: bwarsaw at cnri.reston.va.us (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 11:26:16 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Too many pending requests?
References: <qzg0ye1lyv.fsf_-_@objekt.ling.uu.se>
Message-ID: <14377.40104.287912.252952@anthem.cnri.reston.va.us>

>>>>> "PS" == Per Starback <starback at ling.uu.se> writes:

    PS> I can't get to the pending request page for a mailing list.
    PS> (My web clients just say "waiting for response" and finally
    PS> give up.)  I think it is because there are too many pending
    PS> requests after some problems.  (config.db is almost 10MB.)

Just to give a heads up, I'm soon going to be checking in some massive
changes in this (and other regards).  I'll be sending a long email to
mailman-developers outlining the changes so if you're interested,
please either join that list or read the archives.  (I hope to make
the post by the end of today).

-Barry



From awray at etexcom.net  Wed Nov 10 17:52:29 1999
From: awray at etexcom.net (Alan W. Ray)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 10:52:29 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help requested
Message-ID: <99111010592607.29473@boss.etexcom.net>

I asked this several days ago, but haven't rec any suggestions.  So, I
ask again.  Everything in mailman works great for me except for
subscription or change to subscription requests made via the Web
interface.  When someone attempts to subscribe via the listinfo web
page after entering a correct e-mail address and a password, they get
the following:

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Test Subscription results

You must supply a valid email address.
You must supply a valid password, and confirm it.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Does anyone have a suggestion to give me as to how I can fix this? 
I've tried several different installation options but to no avail. 
Presently, all perms check out and everything via e-mail works
correctly. All Admin tweaks/configurations via the Web interface also
work correctly. I am runing under Mandrake Linux 6.1

-- 
****************************
Alan W. Ray <|> ICQ #2994497
****************************



From dan at dpcsys.com  Wed Nov 10 18:00:03 1999
From: dan at dpcsys.com (Dan Busarow)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 09:00:03 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Cabalists and Users, A question of usage... 
In-Reply-To: <11347.9911101050@mcchpd.mcc.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.3.96.991110085913.4351D-100000@java.dpcsys.com>

On Wed, 10 Nov 1999, Robert Baskerville wrote:
> Mike Richardson (Hi Mike!) wrote:
> > We are looking to use mailman for a large project and I need some
> > assurances to its pedigree, scalability, reliability and speed. 
> > We would want to know it could handle 1000+ lists, 200K members and
> > 25,000 incoming messages per month with a possible 6 fold increase
> > over the next 5 years. 
> 
> I believe this project might also benefit from the facility of handling
> lists in multiple domains on a single system. Has *nobody* tried this?

We do.  I'm sure plenty of others do too.  What kind of problems
are you having?

Dan
-- 
 Dan Busarow                                                  949 443 4172
 Dana Point Communications, Inc.                            dan at dpcsys.com
 Dana Point, California  83 09 EF 59 E0 11 89 B4   8D 09 DB FD E1 DD 0C 82




From doctor at kira.mcc.ac.uk  Wed Nov 10 18:19:24 1999
From: doctor at kira.mcc.ac.uk (Mike Richardson)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 17:19:24 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Cabalists and Users, A question of usage...
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.3.96.991110085913.4351D-100000@java.dpcsys.com>; from dan@dpcsys.com on Wed, Nov 10, 1999 at 09:00:03AM -0800
References: <11347.9911101050@mcchpd.mcc.ac.uk> <Pine.BSF.3.96.991110085913.4351D-100000@java.dpcsys.com>
Message-ID: <19991110171924.I9162@kira.mcc.ac.uk>

On Wed, Nov 10, 1999 at 09:00:03AM -0800, Dan Busarow wrote:
> On Wed, 10 Nov 1999, Robert Baskerville wrote:
> > Mike Richardson (Hi Mike!) wrote:
> > > We are looking to use mailman for a large project and I need some
> > > assurances to its pedigree, scalability, reliability and speed. 
> > > We would want to know it could handle 1000+ lists, 200K members and
> > > 25,000 incoming messages per month with a possible 6 fold increase
> > > over the next 5 years. 
> > 
> > I believe this project might also benefit from the facility of handling
> > lists in multiple domains on a single system. Has *nobody* tried this?
> 
> We do.  I'm sure plenty of others do too.  What kind of problems
> are you having?

No problems, we just wanted to know if it was possible. We currently
have a multidomain mailing list machine running majordomo and we wanted
to know if there was a possibility of running the same service
with mailman...

Thanks

Mike
-- 
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Copyright 1999 Mike Richardson, Rm G100D, Manchester Computing
University of Manchester, M13 9PL. doctor at mcc.ac.uk, 0161 275-6009
--------------------------------------------------------------------
"If I want your opinion, I'll beat it out of you!" - Chuck Norris
"If anything happens to my daughter I have a 45 and shovel" Clueless



From farzy at via.ecp.fr  Wed Nov 10 18:45:43 1999
From: farzy at via.ecp.fr (Farzad Farid)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 18:45:43 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Performance comparison between mailman, majordomo and sympa?
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.991110184108.17789B-100000@zen.via.ecp.fr>

 Hi,

 What are the performances of the mailman system compared to majordomo and
sympa? Especially in term of delivery speed and with a great number of
accounts (around 1000).
 Has anybody objectively compared these different systems? Is there any
info available online?

 Thanks for your help.

-- 
Farzad FARID <farzy at via.ecp.fr>
Ing?nieur Informatique Libre
Alc?ve - http://www.alcove.fr/




From jmackenzie at local.ie  Wed Nov 10 20:15:13 1999
From: jmackenzie at local.ie (John MacKenzie)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 19:15:13 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Administration Via email
Message-ID: <99111019181417.05459@samsara.merrion.nua.net>

I was wondering if administration must be done via the web or can
administration be done via an email interface.
We have a user who wishes a digest list creating for disabled & handicapped
users  and an email based administrative tool would be useful.
if anyone knows how to achieve this, I'd appreciate the info.
regards
- John 
-- 
John MacKenzie | Unix Systems Admin | e: mailto:jmackenzie at local.ie
___________________________________________________________________
Stay in touch your local area through Local Ireland
http://chat.local.ie/chat/index.html 
___________________________________________________________________
local ireland  | dublin  |  new york  |  http://www.local.ie




From lindsey at ncsa.uiuc.edu  Wed Nov 10 20:27:54 1999
From: lindsey at ncsa.uiuc.edu (Christopher Lindsey)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 13:27:54 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Too many pending requests?
In-Reply-To: <qzg0ye1lyv.fsf_-_@objekt.ling.uu.se> from "Per Starback" at Nov 10, 99 03:04:56 pm
Message-ID: <199911101927.NAA11036@ferret.ncsa.uiuc.edu>

A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
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Type: text
Size: 527 bytes
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From jye at helios.physics.utoronto.ca  Wed Nov 10 20:33:12 1999
From: jye at helios.physics.utoronto.ca (Jun Ye)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 14:33:12 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to trim headers and footers
Message-ID: <199911101933.OAA2246638@helios.physics.utoronto.ca>

Hi there,

I like Mailman. However, my users hate those extra
lines in headers and footers in each email via Mailman.

I guess this must be a config issue. Any one can tell me
how to trim the fat ?

Thanks.

Jun

e.g. 

Return-Path: <staff-admin at xxx.xx.xx>
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 14:13:51 -0500
Reply-To: ruth at xxx.xx.xx
Organization: xxx
To: people at xxx.xx.xx
Subject: DR. xxx
X-Mailman-Version: 1.0
Precedence: bulk
List-Id:  <people.xxx.xx.xx>
X-BeenThere: people at xxx.xx.xx
Sender: staff-admin at xxx.xx.xx
Errors-To: staff-admin at xxx.xx.xx
X-Mailman-Version: 1.0
Precedence: bulk
List-Id: staff <staff.xxx.xx.xx>
X-BeenThere: staff at xxx.xx.xx

Dr. xxx will be giving a talk on Friday, November 12 at
3:10 p.m. in room 408 ...  

All welcome.

_______________________________________________
people mailing list
people at xxx.xx.xx
http://xxx.xx.xx/mailman/listinfo.cgi/people

_______________________________________________
staff mailing list
staff at xxx.xx.xx
http://xxx.xx.xx/mailman/listinfo.cgi/staff



From jfesler at gigo.com  Wed Nov 10 20:34:02 1999
From: jfesler at gigo.com (jfesler at gigo.com)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 11:34:02 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Administration Via email
In-Reply-To: <99111019181417.05459@samsara.merrion.nua.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.9911101132160.17400-100000@heaven.gigo.com>

> I was wondering if administration must be done via the web or can
> administration be done via an email interface.
> We have a user who wishes a digest list creating for disabled & handicapped
> users  and an email based administrative tool would be useful.
> if anyone knows how to achieve this, I'd appreciate the info.
> regards

Much of it can be done by email.   Here is a sample from one of the 
lists I run, after emailing gigo-request at gigo.com with a message body 
of simply "help".


***** help
Help for Gigo mailing list:

This is email command help for version 1.1 of the "Mailman" list
manager.  The following describes commands you can send to get
information about and control your subscription to Mailman lists at
this site.  A command can be in the subject line or in the body of the
message.

Note that much of the following can also be accomplished via the World
Wide Web, at:

    http://www.gigo.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/gigo

In particular, you can use the Web site to have your password sent to
your delivery address.

List specific commands (subscribe, who, etc) should be sent to the
*-request address for the particular list, e.g. for the 'mailman'
list, use 'mailman-request at ...'.

About the descriptions - words in "<>"s signify REQUIRED items and
words in "[]" denote OPTIONAL items.  Do not include the "<>"s or
"[]"s when you use the commands.

The following commands are valid:

    subscribe [password] [digest-option] [address=<address>]
        Subscribe to the mailing list.  Your password must be given to
        unsubscribe or change your options.  When you subscribe to the
        list, you'll be reminded of your password periodically.
        'digest-option' may be either: 'nodigest' or 'digest' (no
        quotes!)  If you wish to subscribe an address other than the
        address you send this request from, you may specify
        "address=<email address>" (no brackets around the email
        address, no quotes!)

    unsubscribe <password> [address]
        Unsubscribe from the mailing list.  Your password must match
        the one you gave when you subscribed.  If you are trying to
        unsubscribe from a different address than the one you
subscribed
        from, you may specify it in the 'address' field.

    who
        See everyone who is on this mailing list.

    info
        View the introductory information for this list.

    lists
        See what mailing lists are run by this Mailman server.

    help
        This message.

    set <option> <on|off> <password> 
        Turn on or off list options.  Valid options are:

        ack:
            Turn this on to receive acknowlegement mail when you send
            mail to the list.

        digest:
            Receive mail from the list bundled together instead of one
            post at a time.

        plain:
            Get plain-text, not MIME-compliant, digests (only if
            digest is set)

        nomail:
            Stop delivering mail.  Useful if you plan on taking a
            short vacation.

        norcv:
            Turn this on to NOT receive posts you send to the list.
            Does not work if digest is set.

        hide:
            Conceals your address when people look at who is on this
            list.


    options
        Show the current values of your list options.

    password <oldpassword> <newpassword> 
        Change your list password.
    
    end or --
       Stop processing commands (good to do if your mailer
automatically
       adds a signature file - it'll save you from a lot of cruft).


Commands should be sent to gigo-request at gigo.com

Questions and concerns for the attention of a person should be sent to

    gigo-admin at gigo.com





From jye at helios.physics.utoronto.ca  Wed Nov 10 20:47:45 1999
From: jye at helios.physics.utoronto.ca (Jun Ye)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 14:47:45 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Subscription not disabled BUT User not found
Message-ID: <199911101947.OAA2288912@helios.physics.utoronto.ca>

Hi there,

I deleted a user (UNIX) account (forgot to unsub him from email list first) 
and then got a bounce message every time people use the list, even after 
I "unsub" the account via Mailing list Configuration  - Membership Management web page.

The bounce message looks like

This is a Mailman mailing list bounce action notice:

    List:       pdf
    Member:     wadsley at xxx.xxx.xx
    Action:     Subscription not disabled.
    Reason:     Excessive or fatal bounces.
    BUT:        User not found.

Does anyone know how to clean it up ?

Jun



From jmackenzie at local.ie  Wed Nov 10 21:05:17 1999
From: jmackenzie at local.ie (John MacKenzie)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 20:05:17 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Administration Via email
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.9911101132160.17400-100000@heaven.gigo.com>
References: <Pine.BSF.4.10.9911101132160.17400-100000@heaven.gigo.com>
Message-ID: <99111020060718.05459@samsara.merrion.nua.net>

how about viewing pending requests etc?
for subscribers and if posts required approval?


On Wed, 10 Nov 1999, jfesler at gigo.com wrote:
> > I was wondering if administration must be done via the web or can
> > administration be done via an email interface.
> > We have a user who wishes a digest list creating for disabled & handicapped
> > users  and an email based administrative tool would be useful.
> > if anyone knows how to achieve this, I'd appreciate the info.
> > regards
> 
> Much of it can be done by email.   Here is a sample from one of the 
> lists I run, after emailing gigo-request at gigo.com with a message body 
> of simply "help".
> 
> 
> ***** help
> Help for Gigo mailing list:
> 
> This is email command help for version 1.1 of the "Mailman" list
> manager.  The following describes commands you can send to get
> information about and control your subscription to Mailman lists at
> this site.  A command can be in the subject line or in the body of the
> message.
> 
> Note that much of the following can also be accomplished via the World
> Wide Web, at:
> 
>     http://www.gigo.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/gigo
> 
> In particular, you can use the Web site to have your password sent to
> your delivery address.
> 
> List specific commands (subscribe, who, etc) should be sent to the
> *-request address for the particular list, e.g. for the 'mailman'
> list, use 'mailman-request at ...'.
> 
> About the descriptions - words in "<>"s signify REQUIRED items and
> words in "[]" denote OPTIONAL items.  Do not include the "<>"s or
> "[]"s when you use the commands.
> 
> The following commands are valid:
> 
>     subscribe [password] [digest-option] [address=<address>]
>         Subscribe to the mailing list.  Your password must be given to
>         unsubscribe or change your options.  When you subscribe to the
>         list, you'll be reminded of your password periodically.
>         'digest-option' may be either: 'nodigest' or 'digest' (no
>         quotes!)  If you wish to subscribe an address other than the
>         address you send this request from, you may specify
>         "address=<email address>" (no brackets around the email
>         address, no quotes!)
> 
>     unsubscribe <password> [address]
>         Unsubscribe from the mailing list.  Your password must match
>         the one you gave when you subscribed.  If you are trying to
>         unsubscribe from a different address than the one you
> subscribed
>         from, you may specify it in the 'address' field.
> 
>     who
>         See everyone who is on this mailing list.
> 
>     info
>         View the introductory information for this list.
> 
>     lists
>         See what mailing lists are run by this Mailman server.
> 
>     help
>         This message.
> 
>     set <option> <on|off> <password> 
>         Turn on or off list options.  Valid options are:
> 
>         ack:
>             Turn this on to receive acknowlegement mail when you send
>             mail to the list.
> 
>         digest:
>             Receive mail from the list bundled together instead of one
>             post at a time.
> 
>         plain:
>             Get plain-text, not MIME-compliant, digests (only if
>             digest is set)
> 
>         nomail:
>             Stop delivering mail.  Useful if you plan on taking a
>             short vacation.
> 
>         norcv:
>             Turn this on to NOT receive posts you send to the list.
>             Does not work if digest is set.
> 
>         hide:
>             Conceals your address when people look at who is on this
>             list.
> 
> 
>     options
>         Show the current values of your list options.
> 
>     password <oldpassword> <newpassword> 
>         Change your list password.
>     
>     end or --
>        Stop processing commands (good to do if your mailer
> automatically
>        adds a signature file - it'll save you from a lot of cruft).
> 
> 
> Commands should be sent to gigo-request at gigo.com
> 
> Questions and concerns for the attention of a person should be sent to
> 
>     gigo-admin at gigo.com
-- 
John MacKenzie | Unix Systems Admin | e: mailto:jmackenzie at local.ie
___________________________________________________________________
Stay in touch your local area through Local Ireland
http://chat.local.ie/chat/index.html 
___________________________________________________________________
local ireland  | dublin  |  new york  |  http://www.local.ie




From Robert at Baskerville.Net  Wed Nov 10 21:24:51 1999
From: Robert at Baskerville.Net (Robert Baskerville)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 20:24:51 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Cabalists and Users, A question of usage...
Message-ID: <11854.9911102024@mcchpd.mcc.ac.uk>

Dan Busarow wrote:
> > 
> > I believe this project might also benefit from the facility of handling
> > lists in multiple domains on a single system. Has *nobody* tried this?
> 
> We do.  I'm sure plenty of others do too.  What kind of problems
> are you having?

Well, most such installations I have seen that do this suffer from a
problem. If your site handles lists in domain a.com and domain b.com
can you have *different* lists of the *same* name in the two (or more)
domains? Majordomo can easily be fooled into handling lists which appear
in more than one domain, but to have foo at a.com and foo at b.com as different
distinct lists on the same system tends not to work.

I have see two majordomo setups that *can* handle this, but they are
not quite "out of the box".

Robert Baskerville



From marc_news at valinux.com  Wed Nov 10 21:40:51 1999
From: marc_news at valinux.com (Marc Merlin)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 12:40:51 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] using withlist
In-Reply-To: <199910302247.RAA01711@ferret.ncsa.uiuc.edu>; from Christopher Lindsey on sam, oct 30, 1999 at 05:47:51 -0500
References: <19991030143940.A32722@merlins.org> <199910302247.RAA01711@ferret.ncsa.uiuc.edu>
Message-ID: <19991110124050.D28992@marc.merlins.org>

I asked a while ago how to remove all the admin messages in a queue, and
Christopher helped me out, showing me how to use withlist.

I also need to do the following:
- Extract a user from a list and dump his info in a file so that I can
  import that user in another list. The idea is if I have to move users
  from one list to another, I don't want to add them with a random password
  mailed to them, instead of re-using their subscribe info from another list
- Import a saved user in a new list
- Change the list password (if it matches a given password). I need this to
  change the password to 100+ lists when some admin leaves
- Change random options in lists (like turn archiving on, and archives from
  private to public), because going through the web form for 100+ lists is
  very time consuming.

Even if you  don't have the answer to  all of those, any you  can give would
help.
Also, if I understand Christopher's  message correctly, withlist can be used
from  the prompt,  but  python $prefix/bin/withlist  -r  module -l  listname
doesn't seem to work. 
Is that true? Does it mean I can't run withlist from shell scripts?

Any chance that scripts like the above will be added to the bin directory of
the standard mailman package, so that other people don't have to ask in the
future?

Thanks a bunch,
Marc


I'm purposely quoting Christopher's whole message since it wasn't sent to
the list.

On sam, oct 30, 1999 at 05:47:51 -0500, Christopher Lindsey wrote:
> > >    > python -i $prefix/bin/withlist -l [listname]
> > >    >>> m.requests={}
> > >    >>> m.Save()
> > >    >>> ^D
> > 
> > Cool, thanks, I'll use that next time
> > 
> > Any chance  of having  that as  a script in  the bin  directory in  a future
> > release?
> 
> I had talked with Barry about doing this at one point (no, I'm not one
> of the developers, it was just a side email) and I never got around to
> it.  I can put one together if you'd like, but...
> 
> What I think would be really cool is for people to compile lists of
> commands to do various things.  withlist will take a module on the
> commandline and run it against an opened MailList object.  So I
> could put together a module that does that little ditty above 
> (the m.requests={} thing), then put it in a directory somewhere.
> Every time that I need to run it, I would do
> 
>    python $prefix/bin/withlist -r module -l listname
> 
> And then of course people could write their own shell script wrappers
> around it.
> 
> I think that putting together a bunch of modules in a centralized 
> repository might be more manageable than lots of different administrative
> binaries.  You could put shell script wrappers in $prefix/bin if
> you really want it there...
> 
> This is what I had in mind when I suggested the -r flag...  It could
> really be a powerful tool for debugging and administration.  
> 
> (unfortunately though, I can't get -r to do what I want; so I'm doing
> something stupid or misunderstood something...  must prod further and
> will report back if I'm being an idiot)
> 
> Chris

-- 
Microsoft is to software what McDonalds is to gourmet cooking
 
Home page: http://marc.merlins.org/ (friendly to non IE browsers)
Finger marc_f at merlins.org for PGP key and other contact information



From sitz at onastick.net  Wed Nov 10 21:45:23 1999
From: sitz at onastick.net (Noah)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 15:45:23 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Cabalists and Users, A question of usage...
In-Reply-To: <11854.9911102024@mcchpd.mcc.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.10.9911101541450.10518-100000@stanis.onastick.net>

On Wed, 10 Nov 1999, Robert Baskerville wrote:

> Majordomo can easily be fooled into handling lists which appear in
> more than one domain, but to have foo at a.com and foo at b.com as different
> distinct lists on the same system tends not to work.
> 
> I have see two majordomo setups that *can* handle this, but they are
> not quite "out of the box".

Yes. This functionality would be a Good Thing(tm). I Am Not A Coder, but I
wouldn't think that addition of this would be all *that* difficult. When
creating the list prompt for alternate domain, (maybe) run a check to be
sure that this machine can recieve mail for the requested domain, create
an extra directory (/path/to/mailman/<domain>/<listname>/.

What else am I missing? Lots, most likely. :)


"...and thanks to the use of hallucinogenic drugs I see *right* through you."
                                                        - Bill Hicks




From pjh at mccc.edu  Wed Nov 10 21:46:29 1999
From: pjh at mccc.edu (Pete Holsberg)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 15:46:29 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Create List via email or Web?
In-Reply-To: <199911101933.OAA2246638@helios.physics.utoronto.ca>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.10.9911101545450.1258-100000@tecoma.mccc.edu>

Is there a way to create a new list without telnetting in?

Thanks,
Pete




From dan at dpcsys.com  Wed Nov 10 21:45:31 1999
From: dan at dpcsys.com (Dan Busarow)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 12:45:31 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Cabalists and Users, A question of usage...
In-Reply-To: <11854.9911102024@mcchpd.mcc.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.3.96.991110123433.4351M-100000@java.dpcsys.com>

On Wed, 10 Nov 1999, Robert Baskerville wrote:
> Dan Busarow wrote:
> > > 
> > > I believe this project might also benefit from the facility of handling
> > > lists in multiple domains on a single system. Has *nobody* tried this?
> > 
> > We do.  I'm sure plenty of others do too.  What kind of problems
> > are you having?
> 
> Well, most such installations I have seen that do this suffer from a
> problem. If your site handles lists in domain a.com and domain b.com
> can you have *different* lists of the *same* name in the two (or more)
> domains? Majordomo can easily be fooled into handling lists which appear
> in more than one domain, but to have foo at a.com and foo at b.com as different
> distinct lists on the same system tends not to work.

The lists have to have unique names internally but you could set them
up so that their externally visible name is the same.

in /etc/mail/virtusertable

foo at a.com	foo-a
...
foo at b.com	foo-b
...

with appropriate aliases setup for each pointing at the internal
name.

I haven't actually done this with mailman but see no reason why
it shouldn't work.  Oh, the html links included in emails would
have to use the internal name, guess there is a problem there. :(

Dan
-- 
 Dan Busarow                                                  949 443 4172
 Dana Point Communications, Inc.                            dan at dpcsys.com
 Dana Point, California  83 09 EF 59 E0 11 89 B4   8D 09 DB FD E1 DD 0C 82




From Robert at grapevine2.com  Wed Nov 10 22:14:08 1999
From: Robert at grapevine2.com (Robert)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 16:14:08 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Cabalists and Users, A question of usage...
In-Reply-To: <11854.9911102024@mcchpd.mcc.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.19991110154739.00bddc30@pop.gv2.com>

At 08:24 PM 11/10/99 +0000, Robert Baskerville wrote:
>Dan Busarow wrote:
> > >
> > > I believe this project might also benefit from the facility of handling
> > > lists in multiple domains on a single system. Has *nobody* tried this?
> >
> > We do.  I'm sure plenty of others do too.  What kind of problems
> > are you having?

I have done this type of setup successfully in my Mailing list manager. We 
handle several large mailing lists which we configured the Mailman to work 
with multi-domain names. But, you would need a good server (like ours, at 
Grapevine2 Internet's, www.gv2.net) to be very flexible in setting up the 
domain names to work with Mailman mailing list server.

Here are required steps to make multi-domain names to work on same server 
(UNIX):

1) Assuming you have already installed mailman in /home/mailman directory, 
you would need to create the symbolic link for that to the root user's 
directory (web hosting?)
ex:
cd /home/www/yourname (your personal directory where it's used for webhosting)
ln -s mailman /home/mailman  (i prefer to use this method, which works fine.)

2) Open your admin.cgi/maillist webpage (note: maillist - any names that 
you created for the mailing list) and select General Options

3) Change "Host name this list prefers" to specific domain name. Ex: 
domainname.com. Previous default server name would be 
poseidon.grapevine2.net, with poseidon as the local host name. (NOTE: for 
reference only. Do not copy that names to your server!)

4) Change "Base URL for Mailman web interface to: 
http://domainname.com/mailman/cgi-bin/

5) Assuming you have the info as shown below in your aliases file (in /etc) 
as shown below:

maillist:                    "|/home/mailman/mail/wrapper post maillist"
maillist-admin:              "|/home/mailman/mail/wrapper mailowner maillist"
maillist-request:            "|/home/mailman/mail/wrapper mailcmd maillist"
owner-maillist:              webmaster at domainname.com
maillist-owner:              webmaster at domainname.com

Add the virtual Email addresses to the virtusertable:
maillist at domainname.com         ->   maillist at poseidon.grapevine2.net
maillist-admin at domainname.com   ->   maillist-admin at poseidon.grapevine2.net
maillist-request at domainname.com ->   maillist-request at poseidon.grapevine2.net

When you are done, type "make" to update the db files.

Of course, test the mailing list..to make sure that the settings are 
working correctly.

Good luck!

Robert
Grapevine2 Internet



From Joseph.Bones at chooseabs.com  Wed Nov 10 22:24:26 1999
From: Joseph.Bones at chooseabs.com (Joseph M. Bones)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 16:24:26 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moderation
Message-ID: <3829E28A.3FBF077F@chooseabs.com>

How can i moderate which people can post to certain lists? And can
anyone post to a list without being a member of it?
-- 
Joseph M. Bones
Network Support Specialist
Allentown Business School
1-800-227-9109 x302
Joseph.Bones at chooseabs.com



From lindsey at ncsa.uiuc.edu  Wed Nov 10 22:28:27 1999
From: lindsey at ncsa.uiuc.edu (Christopher Lindsey)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 15:28:27 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Administration Via email
In-Reply-To: <99111020060718.05459@samsara.merrion.nua.net> from "John MacKenzie" at Nov 10, 99 08:05:17 pm
Message-ID: <199911102128.PAA12100@ferret.ncsa.uiuc.edu>

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From lindsey at ncsa.uiuc.edu  Wed Nov 10 22:33:03 1999
From: lindsey at ncsa.uiuc.edu (Christopher Lindsey)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 15:33:03 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Create List via email or Web?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.10.9911101545450.1258-100000@tecoma.mccc.edu> from "Pete Holsberg" at Nov 10, 99 03:46:29 pm
Message-ID: <199911102133.PAA12150@ferret.ncsa.uiuc.edu>

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From tom at suespammers.org  Wed Nov 10 23:13:51 1999
From: tom at suespammers.org (Tom Geller)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 14:13:51 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Multiple domains on one machine
Message-ID: <199911102207.OAA16455@plushie.suespammers.org>

Mike Richardson wrote

>> I believe this project might also benefit from the facility of handling
>> lists in multiple domains on a single system. Has *nobody* tried this?

and Dan Busarow answered:

>We do.  I'm sure plenty of others do too.

Could you post instructions on how to do this? I know I'd like to do 
this, and it seems like a common request.

If you could publish it on a permanent reference such as a Web site, all 
the better. Thanks,


---
              Tom "I am not a lawyer" Geller
    Geller Communications  *  San Francisco * tgeller.com
Other domains: suespammers.org, openppc.org, popcomputers.com




From bwarsaw at cnri.reston.va.us  Wed Nov 10 23:42:05 1999
From: bwarsaw at cnri.reston.va.us (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 17:42:05 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Cabalists and Users, A question of usage...
References: <11854.9911102024@mcchpd.mcc.ac.uk>
	<Pine.BSF.3.96.991110123433.4351M-100000@java.dpcsys.com>
Message-ID: <14377.62653.477415.270298@anthem.cnri.reston.va.us>

>>>>> "DB" == Dan Busarow <dan at dpcsys.com> writes:

    DB> I haven't actually done this with mailman but see no reason
    DB> why it shouldn't work.  Oh, the html links included in emails
    DB> would have to use the internal name, guess there is a problem
    DB> there. :(

I wonder if you could play with Apache rewrite rules to get around
this.  I've just set up a second faster machine onto which I will be
migrating all our Mailman lists (and testing the new code in the
meantime).  I figured out that by using rewrite rules, I can migrate
lists one-at-a-time and the public would never know it.

What I'm doing is setting my second machine to act like it is running
off the primary python.org website.  I.e. in my mm_cfg.py file I have:

DEFAULT_HOST_NAME = 'python.org'
DEFAULT_URL       = 'http://www.python.org/mailman'

I can point the aliases on the old machine to the new machine.  Then I
add the following Apache rewrite rules for each list I move:

RewriteRule /mailman/(.*)/mylist(.*) http://other.python.org/mailman/$1/mylist$2 [P]
RewriteRule /pipermail/mylist(.*) http://other.python.org/pipermail/mylist$2 [P]

Seems to work so far!

-Barry



From stellar at millenniumteam.com  Thu Nov 11 01:18:27 1999
From: stellar at millenniumteam.com (Everett Gavel)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 19:18:27 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] List Management/Creation Software?
Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.19991110191827.007c8210@earthlink.net>

Please send all info on your list management/creation software.
Send to the email address below.  Do not use this reply to 
address for ANYTHING.

Thank you,

Everett Gavel
mailto:EverettG at stellarmerchandise.com




From pfaff at edge.cis.mcmaster.ca  Thu Nov 11 03:50:09 1999
From: pfaff at edge.cis.mcmaster.ca (Todd Pfaff)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 21:50:09 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] using withlist
In-Reply-To: <19991110124050.D28992@marc.merlins.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.10.9911102127550.4044-100000@edge.cis.mcmaster.ca>

On Wed, 10 Nov 1999, Marc Merlin wrote:

> - Change random options in lists (like turn archiving on, and archives from
>   private to public), because going through the web form for 100+ lists is
>   very time consuming.
> 
> Even if you  don't have the answer to  all of those, any you  can give would
> help.
> Also, if I understand Christopher's  message correctly, withlist can be used
> from  the prompt,  but  python $prefix/bin/withlist  -r  module -l  listname
> doesn't seem to work. 
> Is that true? Does it mean I can't run withlist from shell scripts?

i haven't tried using the '-r module' option to withlist but i do use
withlist from shell scripts like the one below.

here's a quick example of how to write a simple shell script to change a
list option for all your lists (turn off send monthly reminders).  i'm
not sure if the Unlock() is necessary but it doesn't hurt.

#!/bin/csh
set prefix=/home/mailman
cd $prefix/lists
foreach f (*)
  python -i $prefix/bin/withlist -l $f << "EOF"
m.send_reminders=0
m.Save()
m.Unlock()
"EOF"
end

the biggest problem i have with using withlist is that the MailList class
is not clearly documented anywhere (that i know of) so i have to read the
python code to figure out what the variable names are.  please correct me
if i'm wrong and there is somewhere i can find documentation about the
python classes in the mailman code.

i agree with chris and marc.  it would be great to start keeping some of
these contributed utilities, either on the mailman web site or as part of
the mailman distribution. 

--
Todd Pfaff                         \  Email: pfaff at mcmaster.ca
Computing and Information Services  \ Voice: (905) 525-9140 x22920
ABB 132                              \  FAX: (905) 528-3773
McMaster University                   \
Hamilton, Ontario, Canada  L8S 4M1     \




From digulla at hepe.com  Thu Nov 11 09:23:57 1999
From: digulla at hepe.com (Aaron \"Optimizer\" Digulla)
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 09:23:57 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] User accounts instead of EMail addresses
Message-ID: <382A7D1D.538B7D8E@hepe.com>

Here is an idea which suddenly stuck me because many users have more
then one email account or they frequently change their account: How
about giving them a Mailman "account" which contains an EMail address
to which to send mails for them ?

This would make a lot of things more simple, for example changing ones own
address: Just log in into your "account", change the EMail address in
there and you're set (after replying to the usual check mail).

It would also allow to manage more then one list at the same time (the
user could say that he wants all lists he is subscribed to, to be delivered
to this account), so only a single password to remember.

-- 
Aaron "Optimizer" Digulla             Team AMIGA     AROS Head of Development
Author of XDME, ResTrackLib, CInt.                     <http://www.aros.org/>
"(to) optimize: Make a program faster by improving the algorithms rather than
by buying a faster machine."                               <digulla at hepe.com>



From bwarsaw at cnri.reston.va.us  Thu Nov 11 16:42:43 1999
From: bwarsaw at cnri.reston.va.us (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 10:42:43 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] User accounts instead of EMail addresses
References: <382A7D1D.538B7D8E@hepe.com>
Message-ID: <14378.58355.812098.589465@anthem.cnri.reston.va.us>

>>>>> "A" == Aaron  <digulla at hepe.com> writes:

    A> Here is an idea which suddenly stuck me because many users have
    A> more then one email account or they frequently change their
    A> account: How about giving them a Mailman "account" which
    A> contains an EMail address to which to send mails for them ?

Definitely high on the wish list.  I nearly considered hacking this in
but I think I'm going to wait until I experiment with architecting
Mailman on the Zope platform.  The advantage here is that you get all
the benefits of a real transactional, multithreading, object oriented
database underneath.

-Barry



From petrilli at amber.org  Thu Nov 11 17:09:16 1999
From: petrilli at amber.org (Christopher Petrilli)
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 11:09:16 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Performance comparison between mailman, majordomo and sympa?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.3.96.991110184108.17789B-100000@zen.via.ecp.fr>; from farzy@via.ecp.fr on Wed, Nov 10, 1999 at 06:45:43PM +0100
References: <Pine.LNX.3.96.991110184108.17789B-100000@zen.via.ecp.fr>
Message-ID: <19991111110916.A6602@trump.amber.org>

Farzad Farid [farzy at via.ecp.fr] wrote:
>  Hi,
> 
>  What are the performances of the mailman system compared to majordomo and
> sympa? Especially in term of delivery speed and with a great number of
> accounts (around 1000).
>  Has anybody objectively compared these different systems? Is there any
> info available online?

I would say that performance is more dependenyt on your mailer, not your
mailing list manager.  For that, look at Qmail or Postfix (my favorie),
rather than Sendmail.

Chris
-- 
| Christopher Petrilli
| petrilli at amber.org



From Robert at grapevine2.com  Thu Nov 11 17:34:03 1999
From: Robert at grapevine2.com (Robert)
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 11:34:03 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Performance comparison between mailman,
  majordomo and sympa?
In-Reply-To: <19991111110916.A6602@trump.amber.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.3.96.991110184108.17789B-100000@zen.via.ecp.fr>
 <Pine.LNX.3.96.991110184108.17789B-100000@zen.via.ecp.fr>
Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.19991111113218.01ecceb0@pop.gv2.com>

At 11:09 AM 11/11/99 -0500, you wrote:
>Farzad Farid [farzy at via.ecp.fr] wrote:
> >  Hi,
> >
> >  What are the performances of the mailman system compared to majordomo and
> > sympa? Especially in term of delivery speed and with a great number of
> > accounts (around 1000).
> >  Has anybody objectively compared these different systems? Is there any
> > info available online?
>
>I would say that performance is more dependenyt on your mailer, not your
>mailing list manager.  For that, look at Qmail or Postfix (my favorie),
>rather than Sendmail.

To process 30,000 accounts on Athlon 550Mhz server (with 512Mb RAM), using 
Sendmail, with 25k message size, it would take around 40 minutes to flush 
out all messages.

Robert
robert at grapevine2.net



From djc at microwave.com  Thu Nov 11 22:26:38 1999
From: djc at microwave.com (Dave C.)
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 16:26:38 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] 1. A contrib, and 2. A question. (fwd)
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.10.9911111625480.28973-100000@hal.microwave.com>

Bah.. Wrong address

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 16:20:13 -0500 (EST)
From: Dave C. <davec at pathwaynet.com>
To: exim-users at exim.org, mailmain-users at python.org
Subject: 1. A contrib, and 2. A question.



1. The standard way to connect one's MTA to mailman (and for Majordomo
as well) seems to be to add a set of aliases for *every* list one
creates. Once upon a time, I crufted a set of configs from Smail to
work with majordomo, to automaticaly recognize the standard patterns,
for all lists in existance. I have long since switched to Exim, and
have recently installed Mailman to test on my personal workstation in
preparation for installing it on our main system. To get to the point,
I have setup a set of transports and directors for Exim, which will do
the same thing. I will include them at the bottom of this message.

2. Upon startintg to prepare for the installation on our main server, I
find that the user 'mailman' is already in use by a customer. How
difficult/possible is it to use a different username for Mailman? What
changes would I have to make to do so?


##########################################################

#
# Transports:
#

mailman_post:
 driver=pipe
 command = "/home/mailman/mail/wrapper post ${local_part}"
 user = exim
 group = mail

mailman_owner:
 driver=pipe
 command = "/home/mailman/mail/wrapper mailowner ${local_part}"
 user = exim
 group = mail

mailman_request:
 driver=pipe
 command = "/home/mailman/mail/wrapper mailcmd ${local_part}"
 user = exim
 group = mail

##########################################################

#
# Directors:
#

mailman_post:
 domains=lists.whateverdomains.com
 driver=smartuser
 condition=${if exists{/home/mailman/lists/${local_part}} {yes}{no}}
 transport=mailman_post

mailman_request:
 domains=lists.whateverdomains.com
 driver=smartuser
 suffix=-request
 condition=${if exists{/home/mailman/lists/${local_part}} {yes}{no}}
 transport=mailman_request

mailman_owner1:
 domains=lists.whateverdomains.com
 driver=smartuser
 prefix=owner-
 condition=${if exists{/home/mailman/lists/${local_part}} {yes}{no}}
 transport=mailman_owner

mailman_owner2:
 domains=lists.whateverdomains.com
 driver=smartuser
 suffix=-owner
 condition=${if exists{/home/mailman/lists/${local_part}} {yes}{no}}
 transport=mailman_owner

mailman_owner3:
 domains=lists.whateverdomains.com
 driver=smartuser
 suffix=-admin
 condition=${if exists{/home/mailman/lists/${local_part}} {yes}{no}}
 transport=mailman_owner






From matthewg at zevils.com  Thu Nov 11 23:18:39 1999
From: matthewg at zevils.com (Matthew Sachs)
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 17:18:39 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Using htdig for archive searches
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.10.9911111712520.21507-100000@zevils.com>

I've installed ht://Dig and set it to index my mailing list archives.  I
want to add some HTML to the archives index of my list to allow archive
searches (adding the search terms listname and pipermail to whatever the
user types in will make sure the search only returns results for that
particular mailing list and not for other things on my site.)

First I tried editing the archives index page for my lists using the
web-based admin stuff, but that didn't do anything.  (What is the archives
index page?  It doesn't seem to be the archives index.)

Then I edited HyperArch.py, but that didn't do anything either.  It looks
like changes to that don't take effect until the next time the archive
index is regenerated (next month?)

So how do I edit that page?  Is it possible?  I guess I could just put a
"Search the listname archives" page on the general list information page,
but it would make more sense for it to go with the rest of the archives
stuff.

-- 
Matthew Sachs	matthewg at zevils.com	http://www.zevils.com/linux/
GPG key: 0x600A0342	PGP key: 0x93EA1151




From djc at microwave.com  Fri Nov 12 01:52:11 1999
From: djc at microwave.com (Dave C.)
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 19:52:11 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] 1. A contrib, and 2. A question. (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.10.9911111625480.28973-100000@hal.microwave.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.10.9911111947570.29540-100000@hal.microwave.com>

Welp, I got impatient, and tried myself, and was able to successfully
install mailman using a different user than 'mailman'. Basically I had
to set MAILMAN_GID and MAILMAN_UID to the numeric settings of the id's
I wanted to use before running configure, and all was well.

It might be a good idea to add a '--with-mailman-uid' and
'--with-mailman-gid' options to the configure script, which would
accept either numeric OR alpha versions of the user/group, and do the
right thing, I think this would have made this a little more direct.

So far the program looks very well written and very suited to the task.

On Thu, 11 Nov 1999, Dave C. wrote:

> 2. Upon startintg to prepare for the installation on our main server, I
> find that the user 'mailman' is already in use by a customer. How
> difficult/possible is it to use a different username for Mailman? What
> changes would I have to make to do so?
> 




From petrilli at amber.org  Fri Nov 12 05:54:01 1999
From: petrilli at amber.org (Christopher Petrilli)
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 23:54:01 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Performance comparison between mailman, majordomo and sympa?
In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.19991111113218.01ecceb0@pop.gv2.com>; from Robert@grapevine2.com on Thu, Nov 11, 1999 at 11:34:03AM -0500
References: <Pine.LNX.3.96.991110184108.17789B-100000@zen.via.ecp.fr> <Pine.LNX.3.96.991110184108.17789B-100000@zen.via.ecp.fr> <19991111110916.A6602@trump.amber.org> <4.2.0.58.19991111113218.01ecceb0@pop.gv2.com>
Message-ID: <19991111235401.C9841@trump.amber.org>

Robert [Robert at grapevine2.com] wrote:
> >I would say that performance is more dependenyt on your mailer, not your
> >mailing list manager.  For that, look at Qmail or Postfix (my favorie),
> >rather than Sendmail.
> 
> To process 30,000 accounts on Athlon 550Mhz server (with 512Mb RAM), using 
> Sendmail, with 25k message size, it would take around 40 minutes to flush 
> out all messages.

A comparable benchmark on Postfix would be around 1/10th the time, and load
as well... it wasn't 25K, but... 

Chris
-- 
| Christopher Petrilli
| petrilli at amber.org



From gossamer at tertius.net.au  Fri Nov 12 19:19:31 1999
From: gossamer at tertius.net.au (Bek Oberin)
Date: Sat, 13 Nov 1999 05:19:31 +1100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Weird error
Message-ID: <19991113051931.L30860@tertius.net.au>

Getting this weird error, anybody decode it for me:

   ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----
"|/var/lib/mailman/mail/wrapper post training"
    (expanded from: training+eval at netizen.com.au)

   ----- Transcript of session follows -----
Traceback (innermost last):
  File "/var/lib/mailman/scripts/post", line 73, in ?
    mlist.Post(msg, approved=fromusenet)
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 1179, in Post
    sender = msg.GetSender()
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Message.py", line 119, in GetSender
    return string.lower(mail_address)
TypeError: read-only buffer, None
554 "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/wrapper post training"... unknown mailer error 1



-- 
: --Hacker-Neophile-Eclectic-Geek-Grrl-Queer-Disabled-Boychick--
: gossamer at tertius.net.au   http://www.tertius.net.au/~gossamer/
: But warm, eager life - to be rooted in life - to learn, to
: desire to know, to feel, to think, to act.  That is what I want.
: And nothing less. That is what I must try for.
: -- Katherine Mansfield



From richarde at eskom.co.za  Fri Nov 12 08:22:37 1999
From: richarde at eskom.co.za (Richard Ellerbrock)
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 09:22:37 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Using htdig for archive searches
Message-ID: <s82bdc65.045@eskom.co.za>

>
>I've installed ht://Dig and set it to index my mailing list archives.  I
>want to add some HTML to the archives index of my list to allow archive
>searches (adding the search terms listname and pipermail to whatever the
>user types in will make sure the search only returns results for that
>particular mailing list and not for other things on my site.)
>
>First I tried editing the archives index page for my lists using the
>web-based admin stuff, but that didn't do anything.  (What is the archives
>index page?  It doesn't seem to be the archives index.)

No, don't do that! The trick is to modify the htdig search page to tell it where to start the search. This is done by passing a "restrict" variable to htdig via your html. Here is my search page that demonstrates that.

Using this method, you can have a many search pages as you like all using the same htdig database. Works really well.

Sorry for sending an attachment to the list, but it is really small.


--
Richard Ellerbrock
richarde at eskom.co.za

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/19991112/25fa921e/attachment.html 

From bwarsaw at cnri.reston.va.us  Fri Nov 12 16:44:34 1999
From: bwarsaw at cnri.reston.va.us (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 10:44:34 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Performance comparison between mailman, majordomo and sympa?
References: <Pine.LNX.3.96.991110184108.17789B-100000@zen.via.ecp.fr>
	<19991111110916.A6602@trump.amber.org>
	<4.2.0.58.19991111113218.01ecceb0@pop.gv2.com>
	<19991111235401.C9841@trump.amber.org>
Message-ID: <14380.13794.931726.749478@anthem.cnri.reston.va.us>

>>>>> "CP" == Christopher Petrilli <petrilli at amber.org> writes:

    CP> A comparable benchmark on Postfix would be around 1/10th the
    CP> time, and load as well... it wasn't 25K, but...

I've been very happy with Postfix so far.  I have a little more
testing of the new stuff this morning, but I actually plan on moving
mailman-developers (and if that works, mailman-users) over to the new
codebase.  You guys are the /best/ guinea pigs! :)

-Barry



From R.A.Gardener at shu.ac.uk  Fri Nov 12 18:09:01 1999
From: R.A.Gardener at shu.ac.uk (Ray Gardener)
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 17:09:01 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] pipermail archive
Message-ID: <382C49AD.9B1EB4AB@shu.ac.uk>

I'm using Mailman 1.0 on Solaris. My problem is that I cannot see the
data archived with pipermail.
The error message I am getting is 
__________________________________________________----
The Sequoia-users Archives 

More info on this list... 

Currently, there are no archives. 
__________________________________________________

The archived material as a mbox file exists and the Apache the WWW
software is configured to follow symbolic links, but the web page for
the archive hasn't been updated. Can anyone help please either with an
explanation or by supply a work web page for an archive list which I can
use as a template?

Regards

ray Gardener



From pjh at mccc.edu  Fri Nov 12 18:51:25 1999
From: pjh at mccc.edu (Pete Holsberg)
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 12:51:25 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] "Too many recipients"??
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.10.9911121245070.932-100000@tecoma.mccc.edu>

A list admin received this message:

> ------- Forwarded Message Follows -------
> From:             dd-admin at listserv.mccc.edu
> Date sent:        Wed, 10 Nov 1999 10:47:14 -0500
> Subject:          Dd post approval required for campbell at mccc.edu
> To:               dd-admin at listserv.mccc.edu
> 
> Your authorization is required for a mailing list posting request
> approval:
> 
>     List:         Dd at saturn.mccc.edu
>     Reason held:  Too many recipients.
>     From:         campbell at mccc.edu
>     Subject:      Techno-Discussion-Informational Homepages
> 
> At your convenience, visit:
> 
>     http://saturn.mccc.edu/mailman/admindb/dd
>         
> to approve or deny the request.

The header of the original message, as seen by one of the
recipients, is:

------
From: "Dr. Diane Campbell" <campbell at mccc.edu>
To: fac at mccc.edu, "CM_1/BECKM", "ET_2/CALLAHAJ", "ET_1/DECKERL",
        "ET_2/DELAPOJ", "JKC_1/EATONR", "ET_2/GATESA", "ET_2/JOHNSONP",
        "ET_2/MASSAM", "ADMIN_2/STEILLL", "ET_2/TAZZAM", "ET_2/TOZZIE",
        "JKC_1/CHEDDIS"
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 10:40:22 +0000
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Subject: Techno-Discussion-Informational Homepages
CC: dd at mccc.edu, morsonh at mccc.edu
-----

fac is an email alias for a large number of accounts
CM_1/BECKM et al are internal netware addresses
dd at mccc.edu is the mailing list run by mailman.

Thanks,
Pete




From edmondja at mcmail.cis.McMaster.CA  Fri Nov 12 20:43:15 1999
From: edmondja at mcmail.cis.McMaster.CA (J.A. Edmonds)
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 14:43:15 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] (no subject)
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.96.991112144228.27217D-100000@mcmail.cis.McMaster.CA>

here is my email address to add to the list.  thank you.




From bwarsaw at cnri.reston.va.us  Fri Nov 12 20:51:36 1999
From: bwarsaw at cnri.reston.va.us (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 14:51:36 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] (no subject)
References: <Pine.SOL.3.96.991112144228.27217D-100000@mcmail.cis.McMaster.CA>
Message-ID: <14380.28616.957666.934595@anthem.cnri.reston.va.us>

>>>>> "JAE" == J A Edmonds <edmondja at mcmail.cis.McMaster.CA> writes:

    JAE> here is my email address to add to the list.  thank you.

Why not visit

    http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users

and add yourself!  :)

-Barry



From ernst at eucanect.com  Sat Nov 13 01:29:43 1999
From: ernst at eucanect.com (AE)
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 20:29:43 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Additional Features ??
Message-ID: <4.2.2.19991112202353.00a81cf0@pop3.hfx.w3internet.com>

Greetings:

I have been using Mailman for the better part of a year now and have 
completely replaced Majordomo.  There are a couple issues that as a web 
presence provider and hosting company we have run across.

Customers who have lists with us have mentioned that it is difficult to 
unsubscribe a user at a specific domain that they know is causing problems, 
but they don't know their e-mail address.  For a list with approximately 
25,000 members, they would like to be able to view the subscribers on the 
Membership management page sorted by the domain name of each member as 
opposed to alphabetical order by username at domain.

A second message received today was to ask if there was a way to block any 
message that contains an attachment.  The best thing I could tell him, was 
to set the "Maximum length in Kb of a message body. Use 0 for no limit." 
back to 40 and hope that the attachment is larger than 40K.  This is 
ovbiously not a great solution.

Anyone think that these would be useful additional features?





From matthewg at zevils.com  Sat Nov 13 01:58:04 1999
From: matthewg at zevils.com (Matthew Sachs)
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 19:58:04 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Using htdig for archive searches
In-Reply-To: <s82bdc65.049@eskom.co.za>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.10.9911121956320.31641-100000@zevils.com>

On Fri, 12 Nov 1999, Richard Ellerbrock wrote:

> >
> >I've installed ht://Dig and set it to index my mailing list archives.  I
> >want to add some HTML to the archives index of my list to allow archive
> >searches (adding the search terms listname and pipermail to whatever the
> >user types in will make sure the search only returns results for that
> >particular mailing list and not for other things on my site.)
> >
> >First I tried editing the archives index page for my lists using the
> >web-based admin stuff, but that didn't do anything.  (What is the archives
> >index page?  It doesn't seem to be the archives index.)
> 
> No, don't do that! The trick is to modify the htdig search page to tell it where to start the search. This is done by passing a "restrict" variable to htdig via your html. Here is my search page that demonstrates that.
> 
> Using this method, you can have a many search pages as you like all using the same htdig database. Works really well.
> 
> Sorry for sending an attachment to the list, but it is really small.

Great, that's much nicer than my solution.  But can I link to it from the
archives page (i.e. http://lists.zevils.com/pipermail/openslash/) ?

-- 
Matthew Sachs	matthewg at zevils.com	http://www.zevils.com/linux/
GPG key: 0x600A0342	PGP key: 0x93EA1151




From schampeo at hesketh.com  Sat Nov 13 01:59:55 1999
From: schampeo at hesketh.com (Steven Champeon)
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 19:59:55 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Additional Features ??
In-Reply-To: <4.2.2.19991112202353.00a81cf0@pop3.hfx.w3internet.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.95.991112195602.31081q-100000@wasabi.hesketh.net>

On Fri, 12 Nov 1999, AE wrote:
> A second message received today was to ask if there was a way to block any 
> message that contains an attachment.  The best thing I could tell him, was 
> to set the "Maximum length in Kb of a message body. Use 0 for no limit." 
> back to 40 and hope that the attachment is larger than 40K.  This is 
> ovbiously not a great solution.

Oh, this one is easy. Mailman lets you block based on the headers. Go to
the admin interface, and select "privacy options". In the "hold posts"
textarea, add the following regexes:

Content-type:.*multipart\/alternative.*
Content-type:.*multipart\/mixed.*
.*text\/html.*
.*text\/enriched.*
.*text\/x-vcard.*
Content-Disposition:.*attachment.*

That ought to grab most of them.

HTH,
Steve

-- 
business: http://hesketh.com ...custom medium- to large-scale web sites
the book: http://dhtml-guis.com  ...Building Dynamic HTML GUIs from IDG
punditry: http://a.jaundicedeye.com       ...negative forces have value
personal: http://hesketh.com/schampeo/  ...info, projects, random stuff





From root at theporch.com  Sat Nov 13 04:23:56 1999
From: root at theporch.com (Phillip Porch)
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 21:23:56 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Additional Features ??
In-Reply-To: <4.2.2.19991112202353.00a81cf0@pop3.hfx.w3internet.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.SC5.4.10.9911122119110.12192-100000@sco.theporch.com>

On Fri, 12 Nov 1999, AE wrote:

> A second message received today was to ask if there was a way to block any 
> message that contains an attachment.  The best thing I could tell him, was 
> to set the "Maximum length in Kb of a message body. Use 0 for no limit." 
> back to 40 and hope that the attachment is larger than 40K.  This is 
> ovbiously not a great solution.

I have a python script that strips attachments unless they are plain/text.
I also have a version written in perl for those who prefer that. It is
called in a pipeline called from the sendmail alias for the list. I would
be happy to share this with anyone who wants. It is being distributed
under the GNU GPL.


-- 
Phillip P. Porch <root at sco.theporch.com>  NIC:PP1573     finger for 
http://www.theporch.com  UTM - 16 514548E 3994397N          PGP key




From ptomblin at xcski.com  Sat Nov 13 04:51:20 1999
From: ptomblin at xcski.com (Paul Tomblin)
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 22:51:20 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Additional Features ??
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SC5.4.10.9911122119110.12192-100000@sco.theporch.com>; from Phillip Porch on Fri, Nov 12, 1999 at 09:23:56PM -0600
References: <4.2.2.19991112202353.00a81cf0@pop3.hfx.w3internet.com> <Pine.SC5.4.10.9911122119110.12192-100000@sco.theporch.com>
Message-ID: <19991112225120.A1110@xcski.com>

Quoting Phillip Porch (root at theporch.com):
> On Fri, 12 Nov 1999, AE wrote:
> > A second message received today was to ask if there was a way to block any 
> > message that contains an attachment.  The best thing I could tell him, was 
> 
> I have a python script that strips attachments unless they are plain/text.

I have finally figured out how to get procmail to filter messages before they
get delivered to mailman.  It took a lot of messing around because of
permissions.  This is under RedHat 6.0 Linux, and it's probably not that
different under any other Sendmail 8.9 and procmail setup.

1. The mail aliases for a list look like:
rfc:            "|/usr/bin/procmail -m MAILMAN='rfc' /etc/procmailrcs/mailman"
rfc-admin:      "|/usr/home/mailman/mail/wrapper mailowner rfc"
rfc-request:    "|/usr/home/mailman/mail/wrapper mailcmd rfc"
owner-rfc:               rfc-admin
rfc-owner:               rfc-admin

2. /etc/procmailrcs/mailman is a file that belongs to user "mail".  I tried to
make it belong to "mailman", but I got all sorts of permission errors - even
if I recompiled the mailman wrapper to expect the mail to come from user
"mailman".  That file does all my procmail filtering, and at the end, anything
that doesn't get bounced or otherwise filtered gets sent to the mail wrapper
program using:
:0
|/usr/home/mailman/mail/wrapper post ${MAILMAN}

3. For filtering, I use Catherine Hampton's spam filter
(http://www.hrweb.org/spambouncer/), so /etc/procmailrcs/mailman just does the
required setup and then INCLUDERCs that filter, then at the end does the bit
at the end I just mentioned.

4. The spam filter writes to a couple of files in ~mailman/Mail.  Since
unfortunately I had to make /etc/procmailrcs/mailman be owned by "mail"
instead of "mailman", that means that that directory has to belong to and be
writable by "mail".


-- 
Paul Tomblin, not speaking for anybody.
SETI at Home:  Finally a *good* way to impress Jodie Foster
http://www.setiathome.ssl.berkeley.edu/



From subscribelists at gruby.com  Sun Nov 14 09:18:00 1999
From: subscribelists at gruby.com (Scott Gruby)
Date: Sun, 14 Nov 1999 00:18:00 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archives Not Threading Properly
Message-ID: <v04220802b4541e924123@[192.168.1.3]>

I've recently setup Mailman 1.1 for a small list and have been quite 
impressed with it. However, one problem I've been having is that my 
archives aren't getting threaded properly, i.e. most of the messages 
(even if they are replies to other messages) appear at the top level, 
i.e.


[My List]Message 1
[My List]Message 1
[My List]Message 1

The second and third messages both have Re: in the subject line (in 
the actual message and when I click on the message), but don't appear 
indented in the list. I suspect that the problem is that some of the 
users on my list have dumb mailers that don't use the In-Reply-To: 
header and/or strip other headers. My messages to the list are all 
properly threaded (I'm using Eudora Pro 4.2.2 on the Mac for my mail).


Any idea how I can fix this? Can pipermail be configured to base the 
threading on just the subject? I realize that this could possibly 
create problems when a subject got repeated, but the threaded 
archives might work better.

Thanks in advance for any suggestions/help.



From fw at s.netic.de  Sun Nov 14 12:57:10 1999
From: fw at s.netic.de (Florian Weimer)
Date: 14 Nov 1999 12:57:10 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Exception at HyperDatabase.py, line 144
Message-ID: <877ljlthex.fsf@deneb.cygnus.argh.org>

A mailing list run by Mailman 1.0 recently produced the following
error message:

| This message was created automatically by mail delivery software.
| 
| A message sent by
| 
|   <XXXXXX at XXX.XX>
| 
| could not be delivered to all of its recipients. The following address(es)
| failed:
| 
|   xxxx at lists.cygnus.argh.org:
|     generated |/home/mailman/mail/wrapper post egsf
| 
| The following text was generated during the delivery attempt:
| 
| ------ |/home/mailman/mail/wrapper post egsf ------
| 
| Traceback (innermost last):
|   File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/Archiver.py", line 214, in ArchiveMail
|     h.close()
|   File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/HyperArch.py", line 906, in close
|     self.update_dirty_archives()# Update all changed archives
|   File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/HyperArch.py", line 871, in update_dirty_archives
|     self.update_archive(i)
|   File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/pipermail.py", line 330, in update_archive
|     self.write_index_header()
|   File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/HyperArch.py", line 738, in write_index_header
|     self.updateThreadedIndex()
|   File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/pipermail.py", line 269, in updateThreadedIndex
|     self.database.setThreadKey(self.archive, article.threadKey+'\000'+article.msgid, msgid)
|   File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/HyperDatabase.py", line 256, in setThreadKey
|     self.threadIndex[key]=msgid
|   File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/HyperDatabase.py", line 144, in __setitem__
|     self.current_index = self.sorted.index(current_item)
| ValueError: list.index(x): x not in list

Is this a known bug?  The list is a low-traffic list in general and works
well, but this time, 5 articles were posted almost at the same time.
Perhaps this triggered the bug?




From gorgo at caesar.elte.hu  Sun Nov 14 17:43:19 1999
From: gorgo at caesar.elte.hu (Gergely Madarasz)
Date: Sun, 14 Nov 1999 17:43:19 +0100 (MET)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archives Not Threading Properly
In-Reply-To: <v04220802b4541e924123@[192.168.1.3]>
Message-ID: <Pine.A32.3.96.991114174144.44754y-100000@caesar.power.elte.hu>

On Sun, 14 Nov 1999, Scott Gruby wrote:

> I've recently setup Mailman 1.1 for a small list and have been quite 
> impressed with it. However, one problem I've been having is that my 
> archives aren't getting threaded properly, i.e. most of the messages 
> (even if they are replies to other messages) appear at the top level, 
> i.e.
> 
> 
> [My List]Message 1
> [My List]Message 1
> [My List]Message 1
> 
> The second and third messages both have Re: in the subject line (in 
> the actual message and when I click on the message), but don't appear 
> indented in the list. I suspect that the problem is that some of the 
> users on my list have dumb mailers that don't use the In-Reply-To: 
> header and/or strip other headers. My messages to the list are all 
> properly threaded (I'm using Eudora Pro 4.2.2 on the Mac for my mail).
> 
> Any idea how I can fix this? Can pipermail be configured to base the 
> threading on just the subject? I realize that this could possibly 
> create problems when a subject got repeated, but the threaded 
> archives might work better.

I don't know if pipermail can handle this, I don't use it, but you could
set up an external archiver with a mhonarc setup, mhonarc can handle it
(with a comment: possible replies or something like that).

-- 
Madarasz Gergely           gorgo at caesar.elte.hu         gorgo at linux.rulez.org
      It's practically impossible to look at a penguin and feel angry.
          Egy pingvinre gyakorlatilag lehetetlen haragosan nezni.
                    HuLUG: http://mlf.linux.rulez.org/




From sdinn at spine.cx  Sun Nov 14 20:26:02 1999
From: sdinn at spine.cx (Steve Dinn)
Date: Sun, 14 Nov 1999 15:26:02 -0400 (AST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archives Not Threading Properly
In-Reply-To: <v04220802b4541e924123@[192.168.1.3]>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.05.9911141524490.22610-100000@spine.cx>

On Sun, 14 Nov 1999, Scott Gruby wrote:
> I've recently setup Mailman 1.1 for a small list and have been quite 
> impressed with it. However, one problem I've been having is that my 
> archives aren't getting threaded properly, i.e. most of the messages 
> (even if they are replies to other messages) appear at the top level, 
> i.e.

I only have this problem if the messages are replied to with either MS
Outlook or MS Exchange.  Any other mail client's response seems to get
threaded properly.  Hmmmm.....

-- 
 Steve Dinn                       email:  mailto:sdinn at spine.cx
                                    www:  http://users.andara.com/~sdinn

       "Save the whales.  Feed the hungry.  Free the mallocs."





From scott at gruby.com  Sun Nov 14 19:29:47 1999
From: scott at gruby.com (Scott Gruby)
Date: Sun, 14 Nov 1999 10:29:47 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archives Not Threading Properly
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.05.9911141524490.22610-100000@spine.cx>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.05.9911141524490.22610-100000@spine.cx>
Message-ID: <v04220800b454afd2b3a3@[127.0.0.1]>

At 3:26 PM -0400 11/14/99, Steve Dinn wrote:
>On Sun, 14 Nov 1999, Scott Gruby wrote:
>>  I've recently setup Mailman 1.1 for a small list and have been quite
>>  impressed with it. However, one problem I've been having is that my
>>  archives aren't getting threaded properly, i.e. most of the messages
>>  (even if they are replies to other messages) appear at the top level,
>>  i.e.
>
>I only have this problem if the messages are replied to with either MS
>Outlook or MS Exchange.  Any other mail client's response seems to get
>threaded properly.  Hmmmm.....

My problems are with Outlook and Lotus Notes. I'm glad (sort of) that 
I'm not the only one to see this.

-- 
Scott Gruby
<mailto:scott at gruby.com>
<http://www.gruby.com/>



From ajc at bing.wattle.id.au  Sun Nov 14 22:33:55 1999
From: ajc at bing.wattle.id.au (Andrew J Cosgriff)
Date: 15 Nov 1999 08:33:55 +1100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archives Not Threading Properly
In-Reply-To: Steve Dinn's message of "Sun, 14 Nov 1999 15:26:02 -0400 (AST)"
References: <Pine.LNX.4.05.9911141524490.22610-100000@spine.cx>
Message-ID: <1yk8nk69mk.fsf@earthling.aia.aig.com.au>

Steve Dinn wrote :

> On Sun, 14 Nov 1999, Scott Gruby wrote:

> > I've recently setup Mailman 1.1 for a small list and have been
> > quite impressed with it. However, one problem I've been having is
> > that my archives aren't getting threaded properly, i.e. most of
> > the messages (even if they are replies to other messages) appear
> > at the top level, i.e.
> 
> I only have this problem if the messages are replied to with either
> MS Outlook or MS Exchange.  Any other mail client's response seems
> to get threaded properly.  Hmmmm.....

Seen that here too - as far as I can see, Outlook sets neither an
"In-Reply-To:" nor a "References:" header and so yes, it'll always
appear to start a new thread.  Bummer.

-- 
Andrew J Cosgriff <ajc at bing.wattle.id.au> exterminate all rational thought !
                  millenium why allegiance gasoline microwave



From djc at microwave.com  Mon Nov 15 03:03:33 1999
From: djc at microwave.com (Dave C.)
Date: Sun, 14 Nov 1999 21:03:33 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archives Not Threading Properly
In-Reply-To: <1yk8nk69mk.fsf@earthling.aia.aig.com.au>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.10.9911142101580.3320-100000@hal.microwave.com>



On 15 Nov 1999, Andrew J Cosgriff wrote:

> Steve Dinn wrote :
> 
> > On Sun, 14 Nov 1999, Scott Gruby wrote:
> 
> > > I've recently setup Mailman 1.1 for a small list and have been
> > > quite impressed with it. However, one problem I've been having is
> > > that my archives aren't getting threaded properly, i.e. most of
> > > the messages (even if they are replies to other messages) appear
> > > at the top level, i.e.
> > 
> > I only have this problem if the messages are replied to with either
> > MS Outlook or MS Exchange.  Any other mail client's response seems
> > to get threaded properly.  Hmmmm.....
> 
> Seen that here too - as far as I can see, Outlook sets neither an
> "In-Reply-To:" nor a "References:" header and so yes, it'll always
> appear to start a new thread.  Bummer.

Thats odd.. I recently did some testing of a tech-support email
archiving system, and it appeared that Outlook did in fact set at least
one of those.. Or maybe it was Outlook Express..  What version of
Outlook? I wouldn't be surprise of SOME version of any MS client didn't
follow a convention..




From ajc at bing.wattle.id.au  Mon Nov 15 04:42:15 1999
From: ajc at bing.wattle.id.au (Andrew J Cosgriff)
Date: 15 Nov 1999 14:42:15 +1100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archives Not Threading Properly
In-Reply-To: "Dave C."'s message of "Sun, 14 Nov 1999 21:03:33 -0500 (EST)"
References: <Pine.LNX.4.10.9911142101580.3320-100000@hal.microwave.com>
Message-ID: <1y7ljkfmjs.fsf@earthling.aia.aig.com.au>

Dave C. wrote :

> On 15 Nov 1999, Andrew J Cosgriff wrote:

> > Seen that here too - as far as I can see, Outlook sets neither an
> > "In-Reply-To:" nor a "References:" header and so yes, it'll always
> > appear to start a new thread.  Bummer.
> 
> Thats odd.. I recently did some testing of a tech-support email
> archiving system, and it appeared that Outlook did in fact set at
> least one of those.. Or maybe it was Outlook Express..  What version
> of Outlook? I wouldn't be surprise of SOME version of any MS client
> didn't follow a convention..

The two guilty parties here are running Outlook 97 as far as I can
tell - hopefully it's better in OE5 or Outlook2000, but nobody uses
them around here - just about everybody else (except me) uses
Netscape.

-- 
Andrew J Cosgriff <ajc at bing.wattle.id.au> exterminate all rational thought !
                    footwear peyote burma redemption circle



From richarde at eskom.co.za  Mon Nov 15 07:49:20 1999
From: richarde at eskom.co.za (Richard Ellerbrock)
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 1999 08:49:20 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Using htdig for archive searches
Message-ID: <s82fc913.058@eskom.co.za>

>On Fri, 12 Nov 1999, Richard Ellerbrock wrote:
>
>> Using this method, you can have a many search pages as you like all using 
>the same htdig database. Works really well.
>> 
>> Sorry for sending an attachment to the list, but it is really small.
>
>Great, that's much nicer than my solution.  But can I link to it from the
>archives page (i.e. http://lists.zevils.com/pipermail/openslash/) ?

Not sure, but have a look at the templates available in the ~mailman/templates directory. You probably want to look at the listinfo template.

--
Richard Ellerbrock
richarde at eskom.co.za




From tom at suespammers.org  Mon Nov 15 08:02:42 1999
From: tom at suespammers.org (Tom Geller)
Date: Sun, 14 Nov 1999 23:02:42 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Offer to help set up suEXEC
Message-ID: <199911150655.WAA24876@plushie.suespammers.org>

Is anyone out there trying to set up suEXEC to work with Mailman? My 
system administrator's done this, and said he'd write up instructions if 
there's enough interest. He's bcc:d on this note.


---
              Tom "I am not a lawyer" Geller
    Geller Communications  *  San Francisco * tgeller.com
Other domains: suespammers.org, openppc.org, popcomputers.com




From jmackenzie at local.ie  Mon Nov 15 14:36:24 1999
From: jmackenzie at local.ie (John MacKenzie)
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 1999 13:36:24 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Transfering Mailman to another System
In-Reply-To: <199911150604.BAA01997@python.org>
References: <199911150604.BAA01997@python.org>
Message-ID: <9911151337331T.05459@samsara.merrion.nua.net>

Was just wondering, 
I've setup a new system and installed mailman.
What do i need to copy in order to Transfer Current lists and archives etc ?
Regards
- john

-- 
John MacKenzie | Unix Systems Admin | e: mailto:jmackenzie at local.ie
___________________________________________________________________
Stay in touch your local area through Local Ireland
http://chat.local.ie/chat/index.html 
___________________________________________________________________
local ireland  | dublin  |  new york  |  http://www.local.ie




From vit at lipetsk.ru  Mon Nov 15 14:45:50 1999
From: vit at lipetsk.ru (Victor Gamov)
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 1999 16:45:50 +0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] unsupported format character
Message-ID: <38300E8E.8562A9CC@lipetsk.ru>

	Can anybody help me with following error:

--------------------------------------------------------
Bug in Mailman version 1.1

We're sorry, we hit a bug!

If you would like to help us identify the problem, please email a copy
of this page to the webmaster for this site with a
description of what happened. Thanks! 

Traceback:


Traceback (innermost last):
  File "/usr/local/lib/mailman-1.1/scripts/driver", line 112, in
run_main
    main()
  File "../Mailman/Cgi/handle_opts.py", line 119, in main
    list.MailUserPassword(user)
  File "/usr/local/lib/mailman-1.1/Mailman/Deliverer.py", line 259, in
MailUserPassword
    {'user'       : cpuser,
  File "/usr/local/lib/mailman-1.1/Mailman/Utils.py", line 704, in
maketext
    text = template % SafeDict(dict)
ValueError: unsupported format character '
' (0xa)





Environment variables:

 Variable
                         Value
 DOCUMENT_ROOT 
                         /usr/local/lib/apache/htdocs 
 HTTP_ACCEPT_ENCODING 
                         gzip 
 CONTENT_LENGTH 
                         141 
 GATEWAY_INTERFACE 
                         CGI/1.1 
 CONTENT_TYPE 
                         application/x-www-form-urlencoded 
 PATH_TRANSLATED 
                        
/usr/local/lib/apache/htdocs/test/vit at lipetsk.ru 
 REMOTE_ADDR 
                         195.34.224.77 
 SERVER_SOFTWARE 
                         Apache/1.3.6 (Unix) 
 HTTP_VIA 
                         hammer.tts.loc:8080 (Oops 1.2d), 1.0
proxy.lipetsk.ru:8080 (Squid/2.2.STABLE2) 
 HTTP_COOKIE 
                        
winstuff-l:admin="(lp1\012S'195.34.224.77'\012p2\012aI942669802\012aI942680602\012aI-1450428464\012a.";
                        
winstuff-n:admin="(lp1\012S'195.34.224.77'\012p2\012aI942668386\012aI942679186\012aI1500243932\012a."
 HTTP_ACCEPT_LANGUAGE
                         Russian, ru, en 
 HTTP_X_FORWARDED_FOR
                         unknown 
 REMOTE_PORT 
                         4801 
 SERVER_NAME 
                         postman.lipetsk.ru 
 HTTP_CONNECTION 
                         keep-alive 
 HTTP_USER_AGENT 
                         Mozilla/4.7 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.1-RELEASE
i386) 
 HTTP_ACCEPT_CHARSET 
                         iso-8859-1,*,utf-8 
 HTTP_ACCEPT 
                         image/gif, image/x-xbitmap, image/jpeg,
image/pjpeg, image/png, */* 
 REQUEST_URI 
                         /mailman/handle_opts/test/vit at lipetsk.ru 
 HTTP_CACHE_CONTROL 
                         max-age=259200 
 PATH 
                        
/sbin:/usr/sbin:/bin:/usr/bin:/usr/local/sbin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/X11R6/bin 
 QUERY_STRING 
 SERVER_PROTOCOL 
                         HTTP/1.0 
 SERVER_PORT 
                         80 
 PATH_INFO 
                         /test/vit at lipetsk.ru 
 HTTP_HOST 
                         postman.lipetsk.ru 
 REQUEST_METHOD 
                         POST 
 SERVER_SIGNATURE 
                         Apache/1.3.6 Server at postman.lipetsk.ru Port
80
 SCRIPT_NAME 
                         /mailman/handle_opts 
 SERVER_ADMIN 
                         vit at lipetsk.ru 
 SCRIPT_FILENAME 
                         /usr/local/lib/mailman/cgi-bin/handle_opts 
 PYTHONPATH 
                         /usr/local/lib/mailman-1.1 
 HTTP_REFERER 
                        
http://postman.lipetsk.ru/mailman/subscribe/test 


--------------------------------------------------------

--
	CU, Victor Gamov



From laukoa at elender.hu  Mon Nov 15 19:25:21 1999
From: laukoa at elender.hu (attila lauko)
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 1999 19:25:21 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] (no subject)
Message-ID: <000501bf2f96$cae0e740$a0f08fc2@pentium-233>





From ptomblin at xcski.com  Mon Nov 15 21:26:58 1999
From: ptomblin at xcski.com (Paul Tomblin)
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 1999 15:26:58 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] bin/arch
Message-ID: <19991115152658.B24916@xcski.com>

bin/arch has some real problems when converting majordomo archives if the
archive contains "^From" in a message.  I know that majrdomo probably should
have escaped it, but it's annoying because it skipped the entire rest of the
mailbox.

Not sure if it's related, but several "beginnings of the month" weeks in the
archive look like:
Week-of-Mon-19981005: (containts posts from 5 Oct 98 till 11 Oct 98)
Week-of-Mon-199810-2: (contains posts from 1 Oct 98 till 3 Oct 98)
Week-of-Mon-19980928: (contains posts from 27 Sep 98 till 30 Sept 98)
Note that middle one.  Note the complete absense of posts from 4 and 5 Oct.
Looks like it might be an error in some date logic.

-- 
Paul Tomblin, not speaking for anybody.
SETI at Home:  Finally a *good* way to impress Jodie Foster
http://www.setiathome.ssl.berkeley.edu/



From mar at Ag.Arizona.Edu  Mon Nov 15 21:32:13 1999
From: mar at Ag.Arizona.Edu (Michael Rose)
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 1999 13:32:13 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help File
Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.19991115133213.007a98a0@ag.arizona.edu>

I have a quick question.  Is there is command that I can send to mailman
that will in turn send me back a "help" message, with all the commands that
can be used.  We are converting majordomo over to mailman and some of our
users are interested if there is such a command that can be used.  Thank-you.


Michael Rose
Ag Networking Lab
Forbes 218
621-2489



From lindsey at ncsa.uiuc.edu  Mon Nov 15 22:07:00 1999
From: lindsey at ncsa.uiuc.edu (Christopher Lindsey)
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 1999 15:07:00 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help File
In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.19991115133213.007a98a0@ag.arizona.edu> from "Michael Rose" at Nov 15, 99 01:32:13 pm
Message-ID: <199911152107.PAA14631@ferret.ncsa.uiuc.edu>

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Type: text
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From bwarsaw at cnri.reston.va.us  Tue Nov 16 04:55:31 1999
From: bwarsaw at cnri.reston.va.us (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 1999 22:55:31 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help File
References: <3.0.6.32.19991115133213.007a98a0@ag.arizona.edu>
	<199911152107.PAA14631@ferret.ncsa.uiuc.edu>
Message-ID: <14384.54707.585043.895028@anthem.cnri.reston.va.us>

>>>>> "CL" == Christopher Lindsey <lindsey at ncsa.uiuc.edu> writes:

    CL> You can send mail to listname-request at example.com with a
    CL> subject of help to get a help message specific to the list in
    CL> question, but as far as I know there isn't a generalized help
    CL> message for all lists available anywhere.  (note: replace
    CL> listname with your listname and example.com with the domain
    CL> name of the server :)

    CL> Methinks that if this is the case, mailcmd should return a
    CL> generic message if it doesn't receive a listname as an
    CL> argument on the commandline.

    CL> Is there any reason that this behavior would be undesireable?
    CL> Or should I write a patch?

I think it would be a good thing.  Maybe what it should do is return a
list of the public mailing lists (giving their -request addrs), and a
short excerpt of the general `help' information.

I think it would be a good thing for mailman at mysite.com to return such
an automated response.  Can anybody think of a reason why we shouldn't
do this?

-Barry



From bwarsaw at cnri.reston.va.us  Tue Nov 16 05:04:20 1999
From: bwarsaw at cnri.reston.va.us (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 1999 23:04:20 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] unsupported format character
References: <38300E8E.8562A9CC@lipetsk.ru>
Message-ID: <14384.55236.596055.411117@anthem.cnri.reston.va.us>

>>>>> "VG" == Victor Gamov <vit at lipetsk.ru> writes:

    VG> Can anybody help me with following error:

Sounds like someone edited the userpass.txt template incorrectly.

-Barry



From oguz at smartmedia.ch  Tue Nov 16 11:36:42 1999
From: oguz at smartmedia.ch (Oguz Demirkapi)
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 11:36:42 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman does not deliver msg anymore ! ?
Message-ID: <383133BA32E.93E4OGUZ@mail.cybernet-ag.de>

Hi,

I have Redhat 6.1 and I use default sendmail and Mailman 1.0 .

I can send mail from this machine to anybody, internet, and I can get
msg from anybody, internet.
.
I can get msg my list also and I can see msg in the archive pages of
lists.

But Mailman does not deliver this msg to list users.

What can be problem ?

I had a delay problem before,
I wonder that this is the same delay problem or not ? 
I am waiting for 5 days,  but It does not deliver msgs :)))


Thanks,


Tarantor







From idukhovich at ptc.com  Tue Nov 16 19:20:23 1999
From: idukhovich at ptc.com (Igor Dukhovich)
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 13:20:23 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Message approval.
Message-ID: <3831A067.8434E28D@ptc.com>

Helo,

One of my users got a message from mailman admin

Your authorization is required for a mailing list posting request
approval:

    List:         Summit-team at server1.ptc.com
    Reason held:  Too many recipients.
    From:         sbrooks at ptc.com
    Subject:      Refresh of Summit Dev/Tst/Pat environments

At your convenience, visit:

http:// URL

to approve or deny the request.

Is it possible to configure mailman and approve a message automatically?

Thank you in advance.


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From Danielle.Moorhead at ericsson.com.au  Wed Nov 17 06:31:12 1999
From: Danielle.Moorhead at ericsson.com.au (Danielle Moorhead (EPA))
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1999 16:31:12 +1100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Subscribing sub-lists to a list.
Message-ID: <4B6BC00CD15FD2119E5F0008C7A419A5038AEAB5@eaubrnt018.epa.ericsson.se>

Hi all,

I've created a list and subscribed three sub-lists to it.
All four lists are configured to send replies to the poster, however when a
subscriber from a sub-list replies to an email sent to the main list,this
reply goes to all the subscribers on the sub-list and not to the poster at
all.  Also, I have entered my email address into the authority to post area
on all four lists, yet when I send an email I have to go into every list and
accept the post.
What I need to know is whether Mailman can handle having lists within a
list, and if it can then why are the replies going to the sub list members
and not to the poster?  And why when I have authority to mail to all the
lists do I still have to go to the admin pages and accept the post for both
the parent list and the sub-lists?

I hope someone can help, I'm at a loss to know what to do......

-Danielle



From jmackenzie at local.ie  Wed Nov 17 12:57:00 1999
From: jmackenzie at local.ie (John MacKenzie)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1999 11:57:00 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Taking lists to a New Server
In-Reply-To: <199911170603.BAA19241@python.org>
References: <199911170603.BAA19241@python.org>
Message-ID: <99111711584529.05459@samsara.merrion.nua.net>

I Recently transfered my system from a FreeBSD box to RH6.1 .
I was wondering what I need to do to bring my lists across to this new server.
Any assistance would be appreciated,
Regards
- John
-- 
John MacKenzie | Unix Systems Admin | e: mailto:jmackenzie at local.ie
___________________________________________________________________
Stay in touch your local area through Local Ireland
http://chat.local.ie/chat/index.html 
___________________________________________________________________
local ireland  | dublin  |  new york  |  http://www.local.ie




From klaubert at bcb.gov.br  Wed Nov 17 14:52:23 1999
From: klaubert at bcb.gov.br (Klaubert Herr da Silveira)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1999 11:52:23 -0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] optimizing mail delivery
Message-ID: <3832B316.43C5FDAC@bcb.gov.br>

I have a mailing-list, where only I post. And 2000 users are subscribed
on it

I searched on the mailman list archive, FAQ and other places, but I
couldn't find a proper answer, so I'm asking here.

Many users of the mailing-list are on the same domain. I'd like know if
the mailman send the e-mail addresses to sendmail (my MTA) in domain
order, or if it ignore this, sending with no order. Or if sendmail can
do this job (is it the default?), optimizing the transfer of the message
to the list. How this work?

thanks in advance,
Klaubert Herr





From ptomblin at xcski.com  Wed Nov 17 15:14:58 1999
From: ptomblin at xcski.com (Paul Tomblin)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1999 09:14:58 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] optimizing mail delivery
In-Reply-To: <3832B316.43C5FDAC@bcb.gov.br>; from Klaubert Herr da Silveira on Wed, Nov 17, 1999 at 11:52:23AM -0200
References: <3832B316.43C5FDAC@bcb.gov.br>
Message-ID: <19991117091458.A5635@xcski.com>

Quoting Klaubert Herr da Silveira (klaubert at bcb.gov.br):
> Many users of the mailing-list are on the same domain. I'd like know if
> the mailman send the e-mail addresses to sendmail (my MTA) in domain
> order, or if it ignore this, sending with no order. Or if sendmail can
> do this job (is it the default?), optimizing the transfer of the message
> to the list. How this work?

>From looking at my sendmail logs, mailman does the right thing when it splits
up a message to multiple MTA processes and gives all the messages for people
@panix.com to the same process, etc.  And sendmail *definitely* does the right
thing and sends only one message to panix.com.

-- 
Paul Tomblin, not speaking for anybody.
SETI at Home:  Finally a *good* way to impress Jodie Foster
http://www.setiathome.ssl.berkeley.edu/



From pjh at mccc.edu  Wed Nov 17 16:53:10 1999
From: pjh at mccc.edu (Pete Holsberg)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1999 10:53:10 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Confirmations?
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.10.9911171052240.3322-100000@tecoma.mccc.edu>

Is there a way to tell which new members have confirmed and
which have not?

Thanks,
Pete




From tom at suespammers.org  Wed Nov 17 20:11:22 1999
From: tom at suespammers.org (Tom Geller)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1999 11:11:22 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: Message approval.
Message-ID: <199911171903.LAA30862@plushie.suespammers.org>

Igor Dukhovich <idukhovich at ptc.com> asks:

>    Reason held:  Too many recipients.
>Is it possible to configure mailman and approve a message automatically?

I'm not sure whether it's possible to circumvent the approval process in 
all circumstances, but you can change the configuration so Mailmain won't 
bother you about "Too many recipients".

1) Go to the administration page

2) Click on "Privacy Options". (You can also get here directly via
   http://www.DOMAIN/mailman/admin/LISTNAME/privacy)

3) For "Ceiling on acceptable number of recipients for a posting", 
   change the value to zero.

You can do this with a variety of other options that would cause messages 
to be held: Look through all the configuration pages.

But I'd be VERY careful about turning off message moderation entirely. 
Those functions are there for a reason. Without them, you may find your 
list flooded with cross-posted messages, spam, bounces, administrative 
requests and other crap.

Good luck!


---
              Tom "I am not a lawyer" Geller
    Geller Communications  *  San Francisco * tgeller.com
Other domains: suespammers.org, openppc.org, popcomputers.com




From claw at cp.net  Wed Nov 17 20:26:23 1999
From: claw at cp.net (J C Lawrence)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1999 11:26:23 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] optimizing mail delivery 
In-Reply-To: Message from Klaubert Herr da Silveira <klaubert@bcb.gov.br> 
   of "Wed, 17 Nov 1999 11:52:23 -0200." <3832B316.43C5FDAC@bcb.gov.br> 
References: <3832B316.43C5FDAC@bcb.gov.br> 
Message-ID: <E11oAim-0002Q9-00@under.eng.cp.net>

On Wed, 17 Nov 1999 11:52:23 -0200 
Klaubert Herr da Silveira <klaubert at bcb.gov.br> wrote:

> Many users of the mailing-list are on the same domain. I'd like
> know if the mailman send the e-mail addresses to sendmail (my MTA)
> in domain order, or if it ignore this, sending with no order. Or
> if sendmail can do this job (is it the default?), optimizing the
> transfer of the message to the list. How this work?

Sendmail will not do this for you.  MailMan can be persuaded to, but
I wouldn't bother.  A better choice is to use a better MTA than
Sendmail, which has better (faster and more optimised) delivery and
queue running functionality than Sendmail.  Two good choices are:

  Exim      http://www.exim.org/
  Postfix   http://www.postfix.org

Unlike Sendmail, such efficient MTAs will automatically order the
messages they deliver in the most efficient fashion.

-- 
J C Lawrence                              Internet: claw at kanga.nu
----------(*)                            Internet: coder at kanga.nu
...Honorary Member of Clan McFud -- Teamer's Avenging Monolith...



From ptomblin at xcski.com  Wed Nov 17 20:47:53 1999
From: ptomblin at xcski.com (Paul Tomblin)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1999 14:47:53 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] optimizing mail delivery
In-Reply-To: <E11oAim-0002Q9-00@under.eng.cp.net>; from J C Lawrence on Wed, Nov 17, 1999 at 11:26:23AM -0800
References: <3832B316.43C5FDAC@bcb.gov.br> <klaubert@bcb.gov.br> <E11oAim-0002Q9-00@under.eng.cp.net>
Message-ID: <19991117144753.A17570@xcski.com>

Quoting J C Lawrence (claw at cp.net):
> Sendmail will not do this for you.  MailMan can be persuaded to, but

Wrong.  Sendmail *does* do this for you.  If you have a bunch of  people on a
list in random order, sendmail will work through the list in order, but every
time it connects to a domain, it will send one message to *all* the members of
the list at that domain.  One of my most popular lists has at least 30% of its
subscribers at panix.com, and another 10% at best.com.  When it was on
majordomo, the entire list was passed off to sendmail in one chunk.  Since one
of the panix.com people is first on the list, all the panixians got their mail
first, then a few more people, then all the people at best.com, etc.  Now that
I'm using mailman, and it's split into 5 chunks, I've noticed that one of the
chunks is all panixians, which goes in one message to panix, and one of the
chunks is almost all bestians, which also goes in one message.

-- 
Paul Tomblin, not speaking for anybody.
SETI at Home:  Finally a *good* way to impress Jodie Foster
http://www.setiathome.ssl.berkeley.edu/



From jerrya at jerrya.fastrans.net  Wed Nov 17 21:08:42 1999
From: jerrya at jerrya.fastrans.net (Jerry Adlersfluegel)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1999 14:08:42 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] optimizing mail delivery
In-Reply-To: <19991117144753.A17570@xcski.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.10.9911171407410.1540-100000@jerrya.fastrans.net>

On Wed, 17 Nov 1999, Paul Tomblin wrote:

> Wrong.  Sendmail *does* do this for you.  If you have a bunch of  people on a
> list in random order, sendmail will work through the list in order, but every
> time it connects to a domain, it will send one message to *all* the members of
> the list at that domain.  One of my most popular lists has at least 30% of its
> subscribers at panix.com, and another 10% at best.com.  When it was on
> majordomo, the entire list was passed off to sendmail in one chunk.  Since one
> of the panix.com people is first on the list, all the panixians got their mail
> first, then a few more people, then all the people at best.com, etc.  Now that
> I'm using mailman, and it's split into 5 chunks, I've noticed that one of the
> chunks is all panixians, which goes in one message to panix, and one of the
> chunks is almost all bestians, which also goes in one message.

This is similar to what I see with my mailman/sendmail setup. It seems
pretty well thought out.

-- 
Jerry Adlersfluegel




From claw at cp.net  Wed Nov 17 21:41:17 1999
From: claw at cp.net (J C Lawrence)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1999 12:41:17 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] optimizing mail delivery 
In-Reply-To: Message from Paul Tomblin <ptomblin@xcski.com> 
   of "Wed, 17 Nov 1999 14:47:53 EST." <19991117144753.A17570@xcski.com> 
References: <3832B316.43C5FDAC@bcb.gov.br> <klaubert@bcb.gov.br> <E11oAim-0002Q9-00@under.eng.cp.net>  <19991117144753.A17570@xcski.com> 
Message-ID: <E11oBtH-0002cy-00@under.eng.cp.net>

On Wed, 17 Nov 1999 14:47:53 -0500 
Paul Tomblin <ptomblin at xcski.com> wrote:

> Quoting J C Lawrence (claw at cp.net):
>> Sendmail will not do this for you.  MailMan can be persuaded to...

> Wrong.  Sendmail *does* do this for you.  If you have a bunch of
> people on a list in random order, sendmail will work through the
> list in order, but every time it connects to a domain, it will
> send one message to *all* the members of the list at that domain.

Not quite true, but close.

> One of my most popular lists has at least 30% of its subscribers
> at panix.com, and another 10% at best.com.  When it was on
> majordomo, the entire list was passed off to sendmail in one
> chunk.  Since one of the panix.com people is first on the list,
> all the panixians got their mail first, then a few more people,
> then all the people at best.com, etc.  Now that I'm using mailman,
> and it's split into 5 chunks, I've noticed that one of the chunks
> is all panixians, which goes in one message to panix, and one of
> the chunks is almost all bestians, which also goes in one message.

The chunks you are describing are messages with some number (100 is
typical) of RCPT TOs tagetting them at a number of recipient
addresses.  Thusly your MTA can have a single message with a long
list of addresses to which it is to be delivered.  (cf VERP which
does the exact opposite)

I should be more specific:

  Given N messages in the mail spool where each message has
(pessimally) a single RCPT TO, and many of those messages are
targetted at the same domain:

  In that case, when Sendmail succeeds in delivering a single
message to domain X it will not then immediately attempt to deliver
the rest of the mesages targeted at domain X, either by the same
connection, or via other connections under other queue runners.
Instead it will deliver one, and then move on to the next message in
the queue and attempt to deliver that, ignoring the fact of what
domain it is targetted at.

Your case which you report above is that of a single message with a
large number of RCPT TOs to the same domain.  There is no wonder in
that message being delivered to the target MX in a single
transaction.  The sadness is that if you had had multiple such
messages, say for instance under MailMan you had 500 WorldNet users
subscribed and thus 5 such messages each with 100 RCTP TOs, or
worse, with the same subscriber base, but the RCPT TOs ordered willy
nilly across the messages, that those 5 (or more) would not have
been delivered in a single pass by a single queue runner, but would
instead have been processed in queue order one at a time, as the
queue runners encountered them..

Other MTA's do not share this weakness.  Exim for instance, no
matter how many messages were in the queue, and no matter what the
distribution of RCTP TOs across those messages, upon successfull
delivery of _one_ would then immediately attempt to deliver the rest
to the same MX.

-- 
J C Lawrence                              Internet: claw at kanga.nu
----------(*)                            Internet: coder at kanga.nu
...Honorary Member of Clan McFud -- Teamer's Avenging Monolith...



From ptomblin at xcski.com  Wed Nov 17 21:52:22 1999
From: ptomblin at xcski.com (Paul Tomblin)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1999 15:52:22 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] optimizing mail delivery
In-Reply-To: <E11oBtH-0002cy-00@under.eng.cp.net>; from J C Lawrence on Wed, Nov 17, 1999 at 12:41:17PM -0800
References: <3832B316.43C5FDAC@bcb.gov.br> <klaubert@bcb.gov.br> <E11oAim-0002Q9-00@under.eng.cp.net> <19991117144753.A17570@xcski.com> <ptomblin@xcski.com> <E11oBtH-0002cy-00@under.eng.cp.net>
Message-ID: <19991117155222.A19870@xcski.com>

Quoting J C Lawrence (claw at cp.net):
> Your case which you report above is that of a single message with a
> large number of RCPT TOs to the same domain.  There is no wonder in
> that message being delivered to the target MX in a single
> transaction.  The sadness is that if you had had multiple such

You're right, sendmail only does the optimization within a single message, not
across all the messages in the queue.  I've been thinking about another MTA,
but qmail means dealing with Dan B, which I'd rather not do because he's a
horrendous jerk in any newsgroup that dares mention qmail in an
uncomplimentary way, and my only exposure to exim was being yelled at by an
admin at an ISP who had configured his version of exim in a way that was
specifically prohibited by RFC822 and refused to fix it because it "stopped
spam" (at the expense of stopping a great deal of legitimate mail, including
my mailing list).  Is Postfix any better?

-- 
Paul Tomblin, not speaking for anybody.
SETI at Home:  Finally a *good* way to impress Jodie Foster
http://www.setiathome.ssl.berkeley.edu/



From claw at cp.net  Wed Nov 17 22:16:52 1999
From: claw at cp.net (J C Lawrence)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1999 13:16:52 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] optimizing mail delivery 
In-Reply-To: Message from Paul Tomblin <ptomblin@xcski.com> 
   of "Wed, 17 Nov 1999 15:52:22 EST." <19991117155222.A19870@xcski.com> 
References: <3832B316.43C5FDAC@bcb.gov.br> <klaubert@bcb.gov.br> <E11oAim-0002Q9-00@under.eng.cp.net> <19991117144753.A17570@xcski.com> <ptomblin@xcski.com> <E11oBtH-0002cy-00@under.eng.cp.net>  <19991117155222.A19870@xcski.com> 
Message-ID: <E11oCRh-0002i6-00@under.eng.cp.net>

On Wed, 17 Nov 1999 15:52:22 -0500 
Paul Tomblin <ptomblin at xcski.com> wrote:

> Quoting J C Lawrence (claw at cp.net):

>> Your case which you report above is that of a single message with
>> a large number of RCPT TOs to the same domain.  There is no
>> wonder in that message being delivered to the target MX in a
>> single transaction.  

> You're right, sendmail only does the optimization within a single
> message, not across all the messages in the queue.  

>nod>

> I've been thinking about another MTA, but qmail means dealing with
> Dan B, which I'd rather not do because he's a horrendous jerk in
> any newsgroup that dares mention qmail in an uncomplimentary
> way...

I have similar reservation on Dan Bernstein.  While I've been
impressed with the thru-puts that QMail can accomplish (CP here uses 
a QMail derivative), due to Dan's behaviour it is not one I freely
recommend.

> ... and my only exposure to exim was being yelled at by an admin
> at an ISP who had configured his version of exim in a way that was
> specifically prohibited by RFC822 and refused to fix it because it
> "stopped spam" (at the expense of stopping a great deal of
> legitimate mail, including my mailing list).  

The behaviour of a single admin hardly reflect on the MTA entire.  I
like Exim.  Phillip Hazel (the author) is responsive and active on
the mailing list that supports it.  The config files are human
readable and easy to understand.  The admin controls and logging are
well developed.  Performance is good and often similar to QMail and
Postfix.  And best of all: I don't need a Bat Book.

> Is Postfix any better?

Postfix is impressive.  I've been archiving the Postfix lists at
Kanga.Nu for a while now, but don't run the MTA myself yet (happy
with Exim and more more important fish to fry than an MTA change).
I have a number of friends, some running large sites and large mail
loads, that are happily running Postfix.  I'm encouraged by the
traffic I see on the lists and by Vietse's behaviour on the lists
(especially compared to Dan B).

-- 
J C Lawrence                              Internet: claw at kanga.nu
----------(*)                            Internet: coder at kanga.nu
...Honorary Member of Clan McFud -- Teamer's Avenging Monolith...



From ivanlan at callware.com  Wed Nov 17 22:52:05 1999
From: ivanlan at callware.com (Ivan Van Laningham)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1999 14:52:05 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] optimizing mail delivery
References: <3832B316.43C5FDAC@bcb.gov.br> <klaubert@bcb.gov.br> <E11oAim-0002Q9-00@under.eng.cp.net> <19991117144753.A17570@xcski.com> <ptomblin@xcski.com> <E11oBtH-0002cy-00@under.eng.cp.net>  <19991117155222.A19870@xcski.com> <E11oCRh-0002i6-00@under.eng.cp.net>
Message-ID: <38332385.1081E7B8@callware.com>

Hi All--

J C Lawrence wrote:
> 

[bobbitt]

> J C Lawrence                              Internet: claw at kanga.nu
> ----------(*)                            Internet: coder at kanga.nu
> ...Honorary Member of Clan McFud -- Teamer's Avenging Monolith...
> 

Uh, is that Clan McFud as in "I am J C Lawrence of the Clan McFud. 
There can be only one!"

<try-to-keep-your-head>-ly y'rs,
Ivan;-)
----------------------------------------------
Ivan Van Laningham
Callware Technologies, Inc.
ivanlan at callware.com
ivanlan at home.com
http://www.pauahtun.org
See also: 
http://www.foretec.com/python/workshops/1998-11/proceedings.html
Army Signal Corps:  Cu Chi, Class of '70
Author:  Teach Yourself Python in 24 Hours
----------------------------------------------



From claw at cp.net  Thu Nov 18 00:59:21 1999
From: claw at cp.net (J C Lawrence)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1999 15:59:21 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] optimizing mail delivery 
In-Reply-To: Message from Ivan Van Laningham <ivanlan@callware.com> 
   of "Wed, 17 Nov 1999 14:52:05 MST." <38332385.1081E7B8@callware.com> 
References: <3832B316.43C5FDAC@bcb.gov.br> <klaubert@bcb.gov.br> <E11oAim-0002Q9-00@under.eng.cp.net> <19991117144753.A17570@xcski.com> <ptomblin@xcski.com> <E11oBtH-0002cy-00@under.eng.cp.net> <19991117155222.A19870@xcski.com> <E11oCRh-0002i6-00@under.eng.cp.net>  <38332385.1081E7B8@callware.com> 
Message-ID: <E11oEyv-0003fC-00@under.eng.cp.net>

On Wed, 17 Nov 1999 14:52:05 -0700 
Ivan Van Laningham <ivanlan at callware.com> wrote:

> Uh, is that Clan McFud as in "I am J C Lawrence of the Clan McFud.
> There can be only one!"

Its much closer to the fact that I used to work for IBM...

-- 
J C Lawrence                              Internet: claw at kanga.nu
----------(*)                            Internet: coder at kanga.nu
...Honorary Member of Clan McFud -- Teamer's Avenging Monolith...



From bwarsaw at cnri.reston.va.us  Thu Nov 18 02:37:58 1999
From: bwarsaw at cnri.reston.va.us (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1999 20:37:58 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] optimizing mail delivery
References: <3832B316.43C5FDAC@bcb.gov.br>
	<klaubert@bcb.gov.br>
	<E11oAim-0002Q9-00@under.eng.cp.net>
	<19991117144753.A17570@xcski.com>
Message-ID: <14387.22646.76313.150613@anthem.cnri.reston.va.us>

>>>>> "PT" == Paul Tomblin <ptomblin at xcski.com> writes:

    PT> Wrong.  Sendmail *does* do this for you.  If you have a bunch
    PT> of people on a list in random order, sendmail will work
    PT> through the list in order, but every time it connects to a
    PT> domain, it will send one message to *all* the members of the
    PT> list at that domain.  One of my most popular lists has at
    PT> least 30% of its subscribers at panix.com, and another 10% at
    PT> best.com.  When it was on majordomo, the entire list was
    PT> passed off to sendmail in one chunk.  Since one of the
    PT> panix.com people is first on the list, all the panixians got
    PT> their mail first, then a few more people, then all the people
    PT> at best.com, etc.  Now that I'm using mailman, and it's split
    PT> into 5 chunks, I've noticed that one of the chunks is all
    PT> panixians, which goes in one message to panix, and one of the
    PT> chunks is almost all bestians, which also goes in one message.

So do you think the Mailman way is better or worse?  I'm curious
because I'm trying to decide whether I should port Mailman 1.0's bulk
mailer code to the new message pipeline.

In the current 1.2 code base (available via the anonCVS), I os.popen()
sendmail[1] passing the entire recipient list on the command line,
then I pipe the message text to stdin and let the MTA do the rest.
There's one complication; if the length of the recipients list is
greater than a certain length (current 3000), I chop it up into
multiple popens, but I don't do any sorting of the recipient list.

The advantage I see of this is that sendmail can do it's thing
asychronously, without keeping the list object locked the entire
time.  The disadvantage is that Mailman is only aware of delivery
problems if the delivery bounces.

I could see trying to sort the recips on the domain name if the total
length is > 3000.  I can also see porting the local-smptd delivery
scheme of the current bulk mailer, but fixing some of the problems in
the 1.0 code base (and there are quite a few).  I'm leary though of
stepping on too much of the MTA's toes -- a good MTA should just do
the right thing.

Another alternative, which would be less work and delegates all
delivery to the MTA, is to just pump all the recips to the local smtpd
via smtplib.py.  The advantage here is that again we're MTA
independent, but the disadvantage is that Mailman's delivery is
synchronous with the smtpd.  We'd have to be very sure to unlock the
list object during this transaction (but watching out for race
conditions, locking again if failure status's are handled directly,
etc.)  More code, more opportunity for bugs.

Comments?

-Barry

[1] I actually don't use sendmail, I use postfix, but the code is
easily configured to use anything with a sendmail compatible command
line interface.



From ptomblin at xcski.com  Thu Nov 18 02:45:13 1999
From: ptomblin at xcski.com (Paul Tomblin)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1999 20:45:13 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] optimizing mail delivery
In-Reply-To: <14387.22646.76313.150613@anthem.cnri.reston.va.us>; from Barry A. Warsaw on Wed, Nov 17, 1999 at 08:37:58PM -0500
References: <3832B316.43C5FDAC@bcb.gov.br> <klaubert@bcb.gov.br> <E11oAim-0002Q9-00@under.eng.cp.net> <19991117144753.A17570@xcski.com> <14387.22646.76313.150613@anthem.cnri.reston.va.us>
Message-ID: <19991117204513.A1135@xcski.com>

Quoting Barry A. Warsaw (bwarsaw at cnri.reston.va.us):
> So do you think the Mailman way is better or worse?  I'm curious
> because I'm trying to decide whether I should port Mailman 1.0's bulk
> mailer code to the new message pipeline.

Personally, I think you should leave it to the MTA to make the decisions on
how to deliver the mail more efficiently.  Anybody who wants more parallelism
can find an MTA to do that.  And that leaves Mailman to concentrate on doing
the things it does well, rather than second guessing the MTA.

-- 
Paul Tomblin, not speaking for anybody.
SETI at Home:  Finally a *good* way to impress Jodie Foster
http://www.setiathome.ssl.berkeley.edu/



From bwarsaw at cnri.reston.va.us  Thu Nov 18 03:04:19 1999
From: bwarsaw at cnri.reston.va.us (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1999 21:04:19 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] optimizing mail delivery 
References: <3832B316.43C5FDAC@bcb.gov.br>
	<klaubert@bcb.gov.br>
	<E11oAim-0002Q9-00@under.eng.cp.net>
	<19991117144753.A17570@xcski.com>
	<ptomblin@xcski.com>
	<E11oBtH-0002cy-00@under.eng.cp.net>
	<19991117155222.A19870@xcski.com>
	<E11oCRh-0002i6-00@under.eng.cp.net>
Message-ID: <14387.24227.543196.582346@anthem.cnri.reston.va.us>

>>>>> "JCL" == J C Lawrence <claw at cp.net> writes:

    JCL> Postfix is impressive.  I've been archiving the Postfix lists
    JCL> at Kanga.Nu for a while now, but don't run the MTA myself yet
    JCL> (happy with Exim and more more important fish to fry than an
    JCL> MTA change).  I have a number of friends, some running large
    JCL> sites and large mail loads, that are happily running Postfix.
    JCL> I'm encouraged by the traffic I see on the lists and by
    JCL> Vietse's behaviour on the lists (especially compared to Dan
    JCL> B).

I looked at a bunch of MTAs when I got our new python.org Ultra2.
Like almost everyone else, I just can't deal with sendmail's
atrocious complexity (of which even the bat book only begins to help
with).  Based on all the comments here, I looked at qmail, exim, and
postfix.  My time is limited so I figured I'd only get a chance to
really dig deeply into one of them, and if that was successful, would
not actually install and play with the others.

I dismissed qmail ironically because it wasn't similar enough to
sendmail in a few key areas (e.g. alias and .forward files).  Those
bits are easy to understand; we have a lot of different people
potentially maintaing the mail system and I didn't want to have to
worry about teaching them all the new interfaces.  The stuff I'd read
about dealing with the maintainer of qmail made me think twice too.

I liked what I saw about exim, but I had some concerns about it's
security.  Maybe I am being overly paranoid (or ignorantly propagating
unsubstantiated rumor :), but I didn't have time to start down that
path to have to back out later.

So that left postfix, and I liked what I read about it's performance
and security.  Obviously Wieste has plenty of credentials in the
security arena.  Postfix was very easy to get configured and installed
exactly the way I wanted.  My sole unresolved issue is the way it
formats error messages when scripts filters exit with non-zero status
(it wraps the script's output, which obvious messes with Python
tracebacks :)

Anyway, so far so good.
-Barry



From claw at cp.net  Thu Nov 18 03:04:21 1999
From: claw at cp.net (J C Lawrence)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1999 18:04:21 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] optimizing mail delivery 
In-Reply-To: Message from "Barry A. Warsaw" <bwarsaw@cnri.reston.va.us> 
   of "Wed, 17 Nov 1999 20:37:58 EST." <14387.22646.76313.150613@anthem.cnri.reston.va.us> 
References: <3832B316.43C5FDAC@bcb.gov.br> <klaubert@bcb.gov.br> <E11oAim-0002Q9-00@under.eng.cp.net> <19991117144753.A17570@xcski.com>  <14387.22646.76313.150613@anthem.cnri.reston.va.us> 
Message-ID: <E11oGvt-0004Z6-00@under.eng.cp.net>

On Wed, 17 Nov 1999 20:37:58 -0500 (EST) 
Barry A Warsaw <bwarsaw at cnri.reston.va.us> wrote:

> So do you think the Mailman way is better or worse?  I'm curious
> because I'm trying to decide whether I should port Mailman 1.0's
> bulk mailer code to the new message pipeline.

MailMan's current code is definitely in the "good enough"
category.  

> In the current 1.2 code base (available via the anonCVS), I
> os.popen() sendmail[1] passing the entire recipient list on the
> command line, then I pipe the message text to stdin and let the
> MTA do the rest.  There's one complication; if the length of the
> recipients list is greater than a certain length (current 3000), I
> chop it up into multiple popens, but I don't do any sorting of the
> recipient list.

My view is that appropriate and efficient handling of mail for
delivery is the domain of the MTA, and should not be the domain of
MUA's (in which camp MailMan sorta falls).  As such domain sorting
is pleasant, it really only acts to further bolster technically
lagging mail servers which are in need of new life anyways.

> The advantage I see of this is that sendmail can do it's thing
> asychronously, without keeping the list object locked the entire
> time.  The disadvantage is that Mailman is only aware of delivery
> problems if the delivery bounces.

Which of course requires a local MTA, which the current design
doesn't.

What actually needs to happen (presuming my current understanding of
the source is correct) is that the abstraction of MailMan's internal
mail queue needs to be finished.  Then, a mail broadcast attempt
would only stuff messages (cheaply) into the MailMan queue
mechanism, and then return, unlocking the list objects.  The queue
object of course can be lock free (lockless DB's aren't difficult)
and you then merely need to run a could of MailMan queue runners to
pipe it to the MTA.

One the messages are stuffed, you can then fork a queue runner,
which, if there are already sufficient queue runners immediately
dies.  If more queue runners are needed however, it proceeds to grab 
messages and stuff them at the MTA in the normal fashion over SMTP.

Note:  If you do this adding VERP support becomes a doddle.

> I'm leary though of stepping on too much of the MTA's toes -- a
> good MTA should just do the right thing.

This is perhaps the best point.  Spending time to further bolster
fading technologies when better services are freely available hardly 
seems worth it.  

> Another alternative, which would be less work and delegates all
> delivery to the MTA, is to just pump all the recips to the local
> smtpd via smtplib.py.  The advantage here is that again we're MTA
> independent, but the disadvantage is that Mailman's delivery is
> synchronous with the smtpd.  We'd have to be very sure to unlock
> the list object during this transaction (but watching out for race
> conditions, locking again if failure status's are handled
> directly, etc.)  More code, more opportunity for bugs.

No no no no no no.  MailMan oeprates asynchronously of the MTA, and
because as a list server it generates unusual loads in itself, it
cannot be subject to the perfoamcen vagaries of the MTA.

Consider the case I used to commonly run into:

  Message arrives and is delivered to MailMan.

  MailMan explodes that message into a couple thousand more messages 
  (100K+ subscribers).

  MailMan attempts to hand off messages to MTA.

  MTA refuses connections as system load is too high.

  MailMan bitches.

  Meanwhile another message arrives at MailMan to be exploded.

> Comments?

Nope!

-- 
J C Lawrence                              Internet: claw at kanga.nu
----------(*)                            Internet: coder at kanga.nu
...Honorary Member of Clan McFud -- Teamer's Avenging Monolith...



From gorgo at caesar.elte.hu  Thu Nov 18 03:14:15 1999
From: gorgo at caesar.elte.hu (Gergely Madarasz)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 03:14:15 +0100 (MET)
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Re: [Mailman-Users] optimizing mail delivery
In-Reply-To: <14387.22646.76313.150613@anthem.cnri.reston.va.us>
Message-ID: <Pine.A32.3.96.991118030855.28574H-100000@caesar.power.elte.hu>

On Wed, 17 Nov 1999, Barry A. Warsaw wrote:

> So do you think the Mailman way is better or worse?  I'm curious
> because I'm trying to decide whether I should port Mailman 1.0's bulk
> mailer code to the new message pipeline.

Actually I kinda like the mailman bulk mailer. Before I switched from
majordomo, I used an external bulkmail package (called from aliases, what
mailman doesn't do on delivery so I can't use it with mailman) to help out
sendmail. Changing MTA's on a high traffic site can be a real PITA, I
wouldn't like it if I had to change it because mailman can't help it out
anymore :( So I think it would be nice if you left it as an option.

-- 
Madarasz Gergely           gorgo at caesar.elte.hu         gorgo at linux.rulez.org
      It's practically impossible to look at a penguin and feel angry.
          Egy pingvinre gyakorlatilag lehetetlen haragosan nezni.
                    HuLUG: http://mlf.linux.rulez.org/




From marcob at equalis.it  Thu Nov 18 01:29:00 1999
From: marcob at equalis.it (Marco Beri)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 01:29:00 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Zope - Mailman
Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.19991118010647.00c0e710@equalis.it>

Hi everyone.
I need to build a site where my customer has to create, delete and manage 
mailing lists. I want to give him the ability to do that but he doesn't 
(and doesn't want to) know anything about Mailman, Zope, html. The mailing 
lists are not public and he decides who participate which list.
Do you think I can do that interfacing in some way Zope with Mailman? Or Do 
I need to modify Mailman? Or does Mailman already have these features?
Many thanks for your time.
Ciao.
Marco.
P.S. As you may imagine, I never used Mailman and I just need a direction 
to start working.




From claw at cp.net  Thu Nov 18 03:28:46 1999
From: claw at cp.net (J C Lawrence)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1999 18:28:46 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] optimizing mail delivery 
In-Reply-To: Message from "Barry A. Warsaw" <bwarsaw@cnri.reston.va.us> 
   of "Wed, 17 Nov 1999 21:04:19 EST." <14387.24227.543196.582346@anthem.cnri.reston.va.us> 
References: <3832B316.43C5FDAC@bcb.gov.br> <klaubert@bcb.gov.br> <E11oAim-0002Q9-00@under.eng.cp.net> <19991117144753.A17570@xcski.com> <ptomblin@xcski.com> <E11oBtH-0002cy-00@under.eng.cp.net> <19991117155222.A19870@xcski.com> <E11oCRh-0002i6-00@under.eng.cp.net>  <14387.24227.543196.582346@anthem.cnri.reston.va.us> 
Message-ID: <E11oHJX-0004gG-00@under.eng.cp.net>

On Wed, 17 Nov 1999 21:04:19 -0500 (EST) 
Barry A Warsaw <bwarsaw at cnri.reston.va.us> wrote:

> I liked what I saw about exim, but I had some concerns about it's
> security.  Maybe I am being overly paranoid (or ignorantly
> propagating unsubstantiated rumor :), but I didn't have time to
> start down that path to have to back out later.

To flesh out this statement a little, and hopefully not write
anything into your fingers (there's a slight imprecation there
against Exim which I'm sure you didn't intend):

  Postfix and QMail are both built on similar security models where
the service is provided by a slew of very small programs (small and
thus easy to debug and secure), none of which trust each other, and
all of which run with the very lowest possible privilege (ie never
as root unless absolutely necessary etc on down to running as nobody 
where possible).

  Exim is descended from Smail, best known for its excellent UUCP
mail capabilities, and shares SMail's (and factually Sendmail's)
security model: a single large monolithic application which is
trusted to "do the right thing".  Now Sendmail of course has a long
and hallowed history of "the exploit of the week".  This is more the
fault of Senmail's internal complexity and just crufty code than it
is of the security model.  It does however reveal a weakness in the
security model: It allows large collections of complex code to
survive.  The highly divided security model used by Postfix et al
mandate small concise chunks of code by insisting that any
individual program only do one thing, and nothing but that thing.
Thus there is the potential in Exim for complexity, and thus
security concerns, to breed.

As far as security histories go, few programs, almost encluding MS
Windows, have as bad a history as Sendmail.  However, that said,
unlike Senmail, Exim has a very good history in this regard with no
root exploits that I'm aware of, and only a few Denial of Service
attacks that were very promptly addressed by the author.

One should also note that neither QMail or Postfix has been totally
exploit of DoS attack free.  Dan Bernstein took great (and
unpleasant) delight in pointing out a number of weaknesses in
Wietse's original implementation of Postfix (which Wietse then
addressed).  More importantly they both, like Exim, have a long
recent history of not having any known exploits, and come with the
advantage of being built on a well known, well anmalysed, and very
security concious design model.

None of which says anything I think you (Barry) don't know, but hey.

-- 
J C Lawrence                              Internet: claw at kanga.nu
----------(*)                            Internet: coder at kanga.nu
...Honorary Member of Clan McFud -- Teamer's Avenging Monolith...



From bwarsaw at cnri.reston.va.us  Thu Nov 18 03:39:53 1999
From: bwarsaw at cnri.reston.va.us (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1999 21:39:53 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] optimizing mail delivery 
References: <3832B316.43C5FDAC@bcb.gov.br>
	<klaubert@bcb.gov.br>
	<E11oAim-0002Q9-00@under.eng.cp.net>
	<19991117144753.A17570@xcski.com>
	<ptomblin@xcski.com>
	<E11oBtH-0002cy-00@under.eng.cp.net>
	<19991117155222.A19870@xcski.com>
	<E11oCRh-0002i6-00@under.eng.cp.net>
	<14387.24227.543196.582346@anthem.cnri.reston.va.us>
	<E11oHJX-0004gG-00@under.eng.cp.net>
Message-ID: <14387.26361.211481.303114@anthem.cnri.reston.va.us>

Very good post JC, thanks for the clarification.  I definitely didn't
mean to disparage Exim in any way.

-Barry



From travisll at comfedcu.org  Thu Nov 18 10:16:34 1999
From: travisll at comfedcu.org (Travis Llewellyn)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 01:16:34 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Virtual Doamin Help
Message-ID: <LOBBKJEBBFAIDPLFCFHAGEMLCBAA.travisll@comfedcu.org>

I have mailman setup working fine on the primary domain on this machine. But
when I tried to setup mailman on the second domain it all comes up ok and I
can hit the web admin page but any mail sent to a list comes up with this
error.

Nov 18 02:29:07 mail Mailman mail-wrapper: Failure to exec script. WANTED
gid 12, GOT gid 65535.  (Reconfigure to take 65535?)
Nov 18 02:29:07 mail sendmail[21316]: CAA21314: to=<support at darkstep.com>,
delay=00:00:01, xdelay=00:00:01, mailer=virtual, relay=darkstep.com,
stat=Sent

Now it works fine with the primary domain just not the secondary domain.

Any help would be appreciated!

Travis Llewellyn
travisll at comfedcu.org




From tom at suespammers.org  Thu Nov 18 10:23:55 1999
From: tom at suespammers.org (Tom Geller)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 01:23:55 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Setting up suEXEC and Mailman so they'll play nice
Message-ID: <199911180915.BAA10152@plushie.suespammers.org>

As promised, from my sysadmin Doug Muth.

--Tom

---------------- Begin Forwarded Message ----------------

Date:        11/17/99 8:41 PM
Received:    11/18/99 12:59 AM
From:        Doug Muth - Suespammers.org SysAdmin, doug at suespammers.org
To:          Tom Geller, tom at tgeller.com

On Mon, Nov 15, 1999 at 10:13:45AM -0800, Tom Geller wrote: 
>I posted a note to Mailman-Users with your offer of documentation for 
>suEXEC, and two people  wrote me privately to say, "Sure, I'm 
>interested". So I think it's worth writing up.

	(Feel free to forward this in it's entirety)

	On the system I administer (A Redhat 6.0 installation) we are 
running suEXEC so that users can safely run CGIs.  However, this presents 
difficulties with Mailman, since its CGIs are SGID so that, in a normal 
environment, any user can run it.  That being said, here's how to set up 
an installation of Mailman in an suEXEC environment:

	
	1. Create your installation directory.  I used 
/usr/local/apache/htdocs/mailman on my system.  I have mailman in the 
/usr/local/apache/htdocs directory since that is "root" to suEXEC.

	2. You'll need to create a Mailman user, then chgrp the directory 
to the Mailman user so that the configure script doesn't complain.  Then, 
chmod 2755 the directory since configure also wants it to be SGID.

	3. Run configure like this:

	./configure --prefix=/usr/local/apache/htdocs/mailman --with-cgi-gid=doug
	--with-mail-gid=your_mailservers_gid

	4. Make install

	5. Change ownership on the Mailman installation to the user 
owning it.  "chmod -R doug.doug /usr/local/apache/htdocs/mailman" worked 
for me.

	6. "chmod u-s,g-s" the contents of the cgi-bin directory so that 
suEXEC doesn't complain about trying to run a SUID/SGID program.

	7. "chmod g-w cgi-bin" so that suEXEC doesn't complain about the 
directory being writable by others.

	8. Configure the webserver(s) using Mailman with the User and Group 
directive to be set accordingly.

	9. Proceed with the other steps in the mailman installation, but 
be sure that it's done in terms of the user that you set this up, NOT 
mailman.  In fact, after configure is run, you should be able to safely 
delete the mailman user and his home directory, as they will not be 
needed anymore.

	If anyone has any questions or comments, I'm not on the 
Mailman-users list, so feel free to write me directory at 
dmuth at suespammers.org!

	Cheers,

-- 
<Doug Muth> ------ <http://www.claws-and-paws.com/> ------ <Whois: DTM47>
Suespammers.org SysAdmin and BOFH *********** http://www.suespammers.org/

----------------- End Forwarded Message -----------------


---
              Tom "I am not a lawyer" Geller
    Geller Communications  *  San Francisco * tgeller.com
Other domains: suespammers.org, openppc.org, popcomputers.com




From dragondm at integral.org  Thu Nov 18 15:49:47 1999
From: dragondm at integral.org (The Dragon De Monsyne)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 08:49:47 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Re: [Mailman-Users] optimizing mail delivery
In-Reply-To: <14387.22646.76313.150613@anthem.cnri.reston.va.us>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.991118083727.15316B-100000@delta.integral.org>

On Wed, 17 Nov 1999, Barry A. Warsaw wrote:

> 
> Another alternative, which would be less work and delegates all
> delivery to the MTA, is to just pump all the recips to the local smtpd
> via smtplib.py.  The advantage here is that again we're MTA
> independent, but the disadvantage is that Mailman's delivery is
> synchronous with the smtpd.  We'd have to be very sure to unlock the
> list object during this transaction (but watching out for race
> conditions, locking again if failure status's are handled directly,
> etc.)  More code, more opportunity for bugs.

	In my own highly-hacked version of mailman that I use, I do this. 
Mailman simply drops outgoing messages into the queue directory. A
background daemon de-queues the messages and pumps them to the local MTA
via SMTP. A cronjob checks the  daemon periodically, and starts it if is
falls over. All very simple, and  has worked very reliably for me for
several months.

	-The Dragon De Monsyne




From mgarside at lakefieldcs.on.ca  Thu Nov 18 18:35:09 1999
From: mgarside at lakefieldcs.on.ca (mgarside at lakefieldcs.on.ca)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 12:35:09 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Admin Pages not working in Debian
Message-ID: <OF9A4CCA88.580D2CF2-ON8525682D.00603C13@on.ca>

Here is my situation. 

I am running the latest version of Debian (potato) with an exim 
mailserver.  Mailman is release 1.1-1, I can't seem to get any 
administrative tasks to work.  It does not save any of the changes that I 
have submitted under the web admin pages, it prompts me for a password 
with every change.  I am using Internet Explorer 5 with Cookie Support 
enabled.

Things I have tried:

- I have added the Scriptalias and Alias that are recommended in the 
README.Debian file, restarted apache to reflect the changes
- I have made the recommended change in /etc/mailman/mm_cfg.py for cookies 
i.e. DEFAULT_URL       = 'http://info.lakefieldcs.on.ca/mailman'
- deleted any cookies on my laptop
- creation of lists and delivery of mails, subscriptions, etc work fine.


Any ideas?

Mike Garside





From gorgo at caesar.elte.hu  Thu Nov 18 18:52:58 1999
From: gorgo at caesar.elte.hu (Gergely Madarasz)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 18:52:58 +0100 (MET)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Admin Pages not working in Debian
In-Reply-To: <OF9A4CCA88.580D2CF2-ON8525682D.00603C13@on.ca>
Message-ID: <Pine.A32.3.96.991118185149.28574P-100000@caesar.power.elte.hu>

On Thu, 18 Nov 1999 mgarside at lakefieldcs.on.ca wrote:

> Here is my situation. 
> 
> I am running the latest version of Debian (potato) with an exim 
> mailserver.  Mailman is release 1.1-1, I can't seem to get any 
> administrative tasks to work.  It does not save any of the changes that I 
> have submitted under the web admin pages, it prompts me for a password 
> with every change.  I am using Internet Explorer 5 with Cookie Support 
> enabled.

You should make sure you access the admin pages on the same path as the
BASE URL (general options page, last option) of the list.

-- 
Madarasz Gergely           gorgo at caesar.elte.hu         gorgo at linux.rulez.org
      It's practically impossible to look at a penguin and feel angry.
          Egy pingvinre gyakorlatilag lehetetlen haragosan nezni.
                    HuLUG: http://mlf.linux.rulez.org/




From ptomblin at xcski.com  Thu Nov 18 20:08:21 1999
From: ptomblin at xcski.com (Paul Tomblin)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 14:08:21 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Expiring archives?
Message-ID: <19991118140821.C30426@xcski.com>

If I want to delete all archives over a year old, say, how do I go about doing
that?

-- 
Paul Tomblin, not speaking for anybody.
SETI at Home:  Finally a *good* way to impress Jodie Foster
http://www.setiathome.ssl.berkeley.edu/



From jefu at cs20.eou.edu  Thu Nov 18 21:20:02 1999
From: jefu at cs20.eou.edu (that jefu guy)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 12:20:02 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] problem...
Message-ID: <199911182024.MAA19194@eou.edu>

I've just installed mailman on a linux machine (redhat 6.0) and the
web pages show up, the subscriptions seem to work, but mail send to 
a list does not work at all.   The mail error log just says 
"operating system error".  The system "messages" file doesnt show
anything.  

Here is a typical chunk of the log : 

Nov 19 03:23:11 cs17 sendmail[12344]: DAA12342: to=<jefu at cs20.eou.edu>,   
delay=00:00:02, xdelay=00:00:02, mailer=esmtp, relay=cs20.eou.edu. 
[140.211.63.170], stat=Sent (MAA26141 Message accepted for delivery)
Nov 19 03:27:11 cs17 sendmail[12372]: DAA12372: from=<jefu at cs20.eou.edu>, 
size=289, class=0, pri=30289, nrcpts=1, msgid=<199911182006.MAA26160 at cs20.eou.e
du>, proto=ESMTP, relay=IDENT:jefu at cs20.eou.edu [140.211.63.170]
Nov 19 03:27:11 cs17 sendmail[12373]: DAA12373: clone DAA12372, owner=phd-admin
Nov 19 03:27:11 cs17 sendmail[12373]: DAA12373: to="|/p1/mailman/mail/wrapper 
post phd", delay=00:00:00, xdelay=00:00:00, mailer=prog, stat=Operating system 
error
Nov 19 03:31:31 cs17 sendmail[12395]: DAA12395: from=<jefu at cs20.eou.edu>, 
size=293, class=0, pri=30293, nrcpts=1, msgid=<199911182011.MAA26177 at cs20.eou.e
du>, proto=ESMTP, relay=IDENT:jefu at cs20.eou.edu [140.211.63.170]
Nov 19 03:31:31 cs17 sendmail[12396]: DAA12396: clone DAA12395, 
owner=mmtest-admin
Nov 19 03:31:31 cs17 sendmail[12396]: DAA12396: to="|/p1/mailman/mail/wrapper 
post mmtest", delay=00:00:00, xdelay=00:00:00, mailer=prog, stat=Operating 
system error

jefu 
-- 
jefu -- jeff putnam -- jefu at eou.edu -- http://cs.eou.edu/~jefu





From ptomblin at xcski.com  Thu Nov 18 21:47:23 1999
From: ptomblin at xcski.com (Paul Tomblin)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 15:47:23 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] problem...
In-Reply-To: <199911182024.MAA19194@eou.edu>; from that jefu guy on Thu, Nov 18, 1999 at 12:20:02PM -0800
References: <199911182024.MAA19194@eou.edu>
Message-ID: <19991118154723.A4289@xcski.com>

Quoting that jefu guy (jefu at cs20.eou.edu):
> 
> I've just installed mailman on a linux machine (redhat 6.0) and the
> web pages show up, the subscriptions seem to work, but mail send to 
> a list does not work at all.   The mail error log just says 
> "operating system error".  The system "messages" file doesnt show
> anything.  

You have to put a symlink between the executable "wrapper" and /etc/smrsh or
sendmail can't execute it.

cd /etc/smrsh
ln -s /pl/mailman/mail/wrapper wrapper


-- 
Paul Tomblin, not speaking for anybody.
SETI at Home:  Finally a *good* way to impress Jodie Foster
http://www.setiathome.ssl.berkeley.edu/



From ptomblin at xcski.com  Thu Nov 18 21:56:31 1999
From: ptomblin at xcski.com (Paul Tomblin)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 15:56:31 -0500
Subject: [jefu@cs20.eou.edu: Re: [Mailman-Users] problem...]
Message-ID: <19991118155630.D4289@xcski.com>

----- Forwarded message from that jefu guy <jefu at cs20.eou.edu> -----
To: Paul Tomblin <ptomblin at xcski.com>
cc: jefu at cs20.eou.edu
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] problem... 
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 12:49:47 -0800
From: that jefu guy <jefu at cs20.eou.edu>


> > I've just installed mailman on a linux machine (redhat 6.0) and the
> > web pages show up, the subscriptions seem to work, but mail send to 
> > a list does not work at all.   The mail error log just says 
> > "operating system error".  The system "messages" file doesnt show
> > anything.  

> You have to put a symlink between the executable "wrapper" and /etc/smrsh or
> sendmail can't execute it.

> cd /etc/smrsh
> ln -s /pl/mailman/mail/wrapper wrapper

Yup - that fixed it.  thanks.  

jefu
-- 
jefu -- jeff putnam -- jefu at eou.edu -- http://cs.eou.edu/~jefu
----- End forwarded message -----

This question has come up a couple of times in the last month.  Should it go
in the FAQ, or at least in the README.linux?

-- 
Paul Tomblin, not speaking for anybody.
SETI at Home:  Finally a *good* way to impress Jodie Foster
http://www.setiathome.ssl.berkeley.edu/



From jwildgrube at amia.org  Thu Nov 18 22:48:31 1999
From: jwildgrube at amia.org (John Wildgrube)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 16:48:31 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman synonym for listserv 'probe'?
Message-ID: <NDBBLBAGCFJOGBALLAHNGEBLCOAA.jwildgrube@amia.org>

Listserv has a nice little feature called 'probe' that will send a message
to all users on a list.  Those that don't come back are OK, but those that
bounce, are removed from the list -- pretty handy for maintanence purposes.
Is there a similar utility or is it an innate functionality of Mailman?

------------------
John Wildgrube
Network Administrator
American Medical Informatics Association


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From bwarsaw at cnri.reston.va.us  Thu Nov 18 23:27:45 1999
From: bwarsaw at cnri.reston.va.us (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 17:27:45 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] problem...
References: <199911182024.MAA19194@eou.edu>
	<19991118154723.A4289@xcski.com>
Message-ID: <14388.32097.199628.282182@anthem.cnri.reston.va.us>

I've just added a README.SENDMAIL file that describes what to do about
smrsh.  I've attached it below; feedback would be welcome!

-Barry

-------------------- snip snip --------------------
SENDMAIL ISSUES

Newer versions of Sendmail come with a restricted execution utility
called "smrsh", which limits the executables that sendmail can use as
mail filter programs.  You need to explicitly allow Mailman's wrapper
program to be used with smrsh.  One good way of doing this is to

    - cd into /etc/smrsh

    - create a symbolic link to Mailman's wrapper program

For example, if you've installed Mailman in the standard location, you
can just execute these commands (you might have to do these as root):

    % cd /etc/smrsh
    % ln -s /home/mailman/mail/wrapper wrapper



From ptomblin at xcski.com  Thu Nov 18 23:33:56 1999
From: ptomblin at xcski.com (Paul Tomblin)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 17:33:56 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] problem...
In-Reply-To: <14388.32097.199628.282182@anthem.cnri.reston.va.us>; from Barry A. Warsaw on Thu, Nov 18, 1999 at 05:27:45PM -0500
References: <199911182024.MAA19194@eou.edu> <19991118154723.A4289@xcski.com> <14388.32097.199628.282182@anthem.cnri.reston.va.us>
Message-ID: <19991118173356.E6256@xcski.com>

Quoting Barry A. Warsaw (bwarsaw at cnri.reston.va.us):
> -------------------- snip snip --------------------
> SENDMAIL ISSUES
> 
> Newer versions of Sendmail come with a restricted execution utility
> called "smrsh", which limits the executables that sendmail can use as
> mail filter programs.  You need to explicitly allow Mailman's wrapper
> program to be used with smrsh.  One good way of doing this is to
> 
>     - cd into /etc/smrsh
> 
>     - create a symbolic link to Mailman's wrapper program
> 
> For example, if you've installed Mailman in the standard location, you
> can just execute these commands (you might have to do these as root):
> 
>     % cd /etc/smrsh
>     % ln -s /home/mailman/mail/wrapper wrapper

I had a problem with this, because majordomo uses a program called "wrapper"
as well, so I had to call the mailman one something else.  In my case, I
called it "mailman_wrapper" and had the aliases exectute
/etc/smrsh/mailman_wrapper instead of /home/mailman/mail/wrapper.  When I get
rid of my last majordomo list, I'll change my aliases over.

-- 
Paul Tomblin, not speaking for anybody.
SETI at Home:  Finally a *good* way to impress Jodie Foster
http://www.setiathome.ssl.berkeley.edu/



From rniess at netserver3.otr.usm.edu  Thu Nov 18 23:41:41 1999
From: rniess at netserver3.otr.usm.edu (Rick Niess)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 16:41:41 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman synonym for listserv 'probe'?
In-Reply-To: <NDBBLBAGCFJOGBALLAHNGEBLCOAA.jwildgrube@amia.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.10.9911181638540.30524-100000@netserver3.otr.usm.edu>

On Thu, 18 Nov 1999, John Wildgrube wrote:
> Listserv has a nice little feature called 'probe' that will send a message
> to all users on a list.  Those that don't come back are OK, but those that
> bounce, are removed from the list -- pretty handy for maintanence purposes.
> Is there a similar utility or is it an innate functionality of Mailman?

     Perhaps not directly, but the Bounce mechanism does a good job of
this.  Just set the Bounce Admins options in the list admin pages to
"Remove and Notify me", etc.  Then, send a message to the list.  For those
subscribers that bounce back with fatal delivery messages or it can't
deliver to for a number of tries, it should remove them and notify you.

						~ Rick ~
--
.oooO "Man with closed Oooo.    Rick C. Niess
(   )   mouth gathers  (   )    University of Southern Miss.
 \ (      no foot!"     ) /     resnet at usm.edu
--\ )------------------(_/-------------------------------





From bwarsaw at cnri.reston.va.us  Thu Nov 18 23:45:00 1999
From: bwarsaw at cnri.reston.va.us (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 17:45:00 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] problem...
References: <199911182024.MAA19194@eou.edu>
	<19991118154723.A4289@xcski.com>
	<14388.32097.199628.282182@anthem.cnri.reston.va.us>
	<19991118173356.E6256@xcski.com>
Message-ID: <14388.33132.362591.930602@anthem.cnri.reston.va.us>

>>>>> "PT" == Paul Tomblin <ptomblin at xcski.com> writes:

    PT> I had a problem with this, because majordomo uses a program
    PT> called "wrapper" as well, so I had to call the mailman one
    PT> something else.  In my case, I called it "mailman_wrapper" and
    PT> had the aliases exectute /etc/smrsh/mailman_wrapper instead of
    PT> /home/mailman/mail/wrapper.  When I get rid of my last
    PT> majordomo list, I'll change my aliases over.

Okay, I've added a note about this.  Thanks.
-Barry



From lindsey at ncsa.uiuc.edu  Thu Nov 18 23:53:06 1999
From: lindsey at ncsa.uiuc.edu (Christopher Lindsey)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 16:53:06 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] problem...
In-Reply-To: <14388.32097.199628.282182@anthem.cnri.reston.va.us> from "Barry A. Warsaw" at Nov 18, 99 05:27:45 pm
Message-ID: <199911182253.QAA04347@ferret.ncsa.uiuc.edu>

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From eccles at vancouver.wsu.edu  Fri Nov 19 01:31:04 1999
From: eccles at vancouver.wsu.edu (Michelle Eccles)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 16:31:04 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] server opsys for mailman
Message-ID: <19991119002920.CAC18A3EDA@boron.vancouver.wsu.edu>

	Can someone tell me whether Mailman and Python needed for mailman will run
on a Solaris unix system?




From bwarsaw at cnri.reston.va.us  Fri Nov 19 02:15:33 1999
From: bwarsaw at cnri.reston.va.us (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 20:15:33 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] problem...
References: <14388.32097.199628.282182@anthem.cnri.reston.va.us>
	<199911182253.QAA04347@ferret.ncsa.uiuc.edu>
Message-ID: <14388.42165.223634.123701@anthem.cnri.reston.va.us>

>>>>> "CL" == Christopher Lindsey <lindsey at ncsa.uiuc.edu> writes:

    CL> Am I complicating things too much?  :)

Not too much! :)  I made some changes based on your comments, though.
Thanks.
-Barry



From bwarsaw at cnri.reston.va.us  Fri Nov 19 02:26:02 1999
From: bwarsaw at cnri.reston.va.us (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 20:26:02 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] server opsys for mailman
References: <19991119002920.CAC18A3EDA@boron.vancouver.wsu.edu>
Message-ID: <14388.42794.813688.179729@anthem.cnri.reston.va.us>

>>>>> "ME" == Michelle Eccles <eccles at vancouver.wsu.edu> writes:

    ME> 	Can someone tell me whether Mailman and Python needed
    ME> for mailman will run on a Solaris unix system?

Absolutely.  Python.Org runs Solaris.

-Barry



From wheakory at isu.edu  Fri Nov 19 06:00:34 1999
From: wheakory at isu.edu (Kory Wheatley)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 22:00:34 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman bug error
Message-ID: <3834D970.4471823@isu.edu>

Does any know how to fix this mailman 1.0 bug error that I am getting on
our
Red hat 6.0 system.

I know its a permissions problem I just cant find where its at, here's
the error below, its when I try to go to the administer a list.

We're sorry, we hit a bug!

If you would like to help us identify the problem, please email a copy
of this page to the webmaster for this site with a
description of what happened. Thanks!

Traceback:


Traceback (innermost last):
  File "/home/mailman/scripts/driver", line 112, in run_main
    main()
  File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/admin.py", line 65, in main
    lst = MailList.MailList(list_name)
  File "/home/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 61, in __init__
    self.Load()
  File "/home/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 798, in Load
    self.Lock()
  File "/home/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 1374, in Lock
    self._lock_file = posixfile.open(
  File "/var/tmp/python-root/usr/lib/python1.5/posixfile.py", line 216,
in open
    return _posixfile_().open(name, mode, bufsize)
  File "/var/tmp/python-root/usr/lib/python1.5/posixfile.py", line 81,
in open
    return self.fileopen(__builtin__.open(name, mode, bufsize))
IOError: (13, 'Permission denied')

Kory Wheatley




From J.S.Harlim at hw.ac.uk  Fri Nov 19 13:30:30 1999
From: J.S.Harlim at hw.ac.uk (Jongky S. Harlim)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1999 12:30:30 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Seeking Help
Message-ID: <SIMEON.9911191230.A@rm13pc2.hw.ac.uk>

Dear All,

I am a novice in the ways of Mailman, and have a question 
to ask. Your help would be much appreciated.

I managed to install Mailman on our new machine running 
Linux Red Hat version 6.0. We hope to replace our Majordomo 
with Mailman. Currently we are running Majordomo on another 
machine running ULTRIX V4.5 and it has 24 mailing lists on 
it. My question is how do I transfer these 24 mailing lists 
from majordomo to Mailman on these two different machines? 
Is there a mechanism available that will enable the 
automatic transfer?, or do I have to do it the laborious 
way of setting up all those mailing lists manually with 
Mailman?

Thanks in advance for your comments, ideas, help, etc.

Regards,
Jongky S. Harlim (Ms)
Computing Services, Heriot-Watt University
Riccarton, Edinburgh EH14 4AS
Phone: +44 (0)131-451-3268 Fax: +44 (0)131-451-3261
Email: J.S.Harlim at hw.ac.uk




From petrilli at amber.org  Fri Nov 19 17:58:02 1999
From: petrilli at amber.org (Christopher Petrilli)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1999 11:58:02 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman synonym for listserv 'probe'?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.10.9911181638540.30524-100000@netserver3.otr.usm.edu>; from rniess@netserver3.otr.usm.edu on Thu, Nov 18, 1999 at 04:41:41PM -0600
References: <NDBBLBAGCFJOGBALLAHNGEBLCOAA.jwildgrube@amia.org> <Pine.LNX.4.10.9911181638540.30524-100000@netserver3.otr.usm.edu>
Message-ID: <19991119115802.A23400@trump.amber.org>

Rick Niess [rniess at netserver3.otr.usm.edu] wrote:
> On Thu, 18 Nov 1999, John Wildgrube wrote:
> > Listserv has a nice little feature called 'probe' that will send a message
> > to all users on a list.  Those that don't come back are OK, but those that
> > bounce, are removed from the list -- pretty handy for maintanence purposes.
> > Is there a similar utility or is it an innate functionality of Mailman?
> 
>      Perhaps not directly, but the Bounce mechanism does a good job of
> this.  Just set the Bounce Admins options in the list admin pages to
> "Remove and Notify me", etc.  Then, send a message to the list.  For those
> subscribers that bounce back with fatal delivery messages or it can't
> deliver to for a number of tries, it should remove them and notify you.

Actually what I'd like is to force people to "renew" their subscriptions
on some basis... this is one thing I miss from LISTSERV... well,
that and it used no CPU :-)

Chris
-- 
| Christopher Petrilli
| petrilli at amber.org



From travisll at comfedcu.org  Fri Nov 19 20:59:51 1999
From: travisll at comfedcu.org (Travis Llewellyn)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1999 13:59:51 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Multiple Domain
Message-ID: <FFAA3A14D8A0D211B1A000104B2B3DFEFB7A@MAIL>

Hello everyone.

I am new to mailman and am trying to set it for multiple domains on one box.
Redhat 6.0, sendmail, mailman 1.1. I have setup the multiple domains with
linuxconf and it all works great except I get the wrong mail GID with the
mailman installed on the second domain.

Has anyone had any experience installing Mailman on multiple domains on the
same box?

Any help would be appreciated!

Travis Llewellyn
Communication Federal CU



From jmackenzie at local.ie  Sat Nov 20 18:30:08 1999
From: jmackenzie at local.ie (John MacKenzie)
Date: Sat, 20 Nov 1999 17:30:08 -0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problems with mailman
Message-ID: <001c01bf337d$99f40d20$5f8591c2@oemcomputer>

Hey folks,
Was wondering if anyone can help Me here,

Basic issue I'm having is.. that whenever the web interface makes a change
to the config.db , it changes it to uid www and gid www
(The User and group of the web daemon)
As you can imagine.. this causes all sorts of issues with it then not being
able to read it again.

Also.... I checked another server and the file permissions are being
incorrrectly set. Both servers have the httpd configured exactly alike.

This is what I'm talking about :
Working Server :

Permissions    UID        GID        Size        Date/Time        Filename

-rw-rw-r--      1 root     mailman  2797      Nov 17 11:49     config.db
-rw-rw-r--      1 mailman  mailman  2797 Nov  8 11:23    config.db.last
-rw-rw-r--      1 root     mailman  13329 Nov 17 11:49         config.db
-rw-rw-r--      1 mailman  mailman  13329 Nov 15 22:13  config.db.last
-rw-rw-r--      1 root     mailman  106111 Nov 17 11:49     config.db
-rw-rw-r--      1 mailman  mailman 106111 Nov 16 12:00 config.db.last
-rw-rw-r--      1 root     mailman  26393 Nov 17 11:49        config.db
-rw-rw-r--      1 mailman  mailman  26393 Nov 14 20:56 config.db.last

etc etc

Trouble Server :
-rw-rw----   1 www      www        106542 Nov 20 16:22 config.db
-rw-rw----   1 www      www        106430 Nov 20 14:24 config.db.last
etc.

Any work arounds For this? It's driving me insane.

Thanks for your help,
Regards
- John






From clark.evans at manhattanproject.com  Sat Nov 20 20:14:07 1999
From: clark.evans at manhattanproject.com (Clark C. Evans)
Date: Sat, 20 Nov 1999 14:14:07 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] sendmail local relay configuration
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.10.9911201413510.26613-100000@cantor.clarkevans.com>

Hello all.  I'm getting "TrySMTPDelivery:  Mabye your MTA daemon
needs restarting?" in the smtp-failures file.

Last month, D'Arcy wrote:
| You aren't blocking yourself from relaying, are you?  Sometimes people
| forget to allow their own IP to access the SMTP port.  This can go
| unnoticed if your local mail programs call sendmail directly but
| connects to the SMTP port.

So, I figure this is the problem.  However, I dug for a while (hour?)
and I can't figure out how to configure sendmail to accept local
mail on port 25.... I'm running RH 6.1 , so I guess they have
a new configuration default since it did work before without
any problems.

Best,

Clark





From clark.evans at manhattanproject.com  Sat Nov 20 20:19:44 1999
From: clark.evans at manhattanproject.com (Clark C. Evans)
Date: Sat, 20 Nov 1999 14:19:44 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: sendmail local relay configuration
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.10.9911201413510.26613-100000@cantor.clarkevans.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.10.9911201416260.26613-100000@cantor.clarkevans.com>

Hmm.  I was just thinking.... stupid me.  I'm just
relaying my mail to mail.myisp.net anyway...

So, adding

    SMTPHOST          = 'mail.myisp.net'     

to mm_cfg.py did the trick.  However, for future
reference, it would be good to know how to allow
local relay with sendmail...

Thanks all!

;) Clark

On Sat, 20 Nov 1999, Clark C. Evans wrote:

> Date: Sat, 20 Nov 1999 14:14:07 -0500 (EST)
> From: Clark C. Evans <clark.evans at manhattanproject.com>
> To: mailman-users at python.org
> Subject: sendmail local relay configuration
> 
> Hello all.  I'm getting "TrySMTPDelivery:  Mabye your MTA daemon
> needs restarting?" in the smtp-failures file.
> 
> Last month, D'Arcy wrote:
> | You aren't blocking yourself from relaying, are you?  Sometimes people
> | forget to allow their own IP to access the SMTP port.  This can go
> | unnoticed if your local mail programs call sendmail directly but
> | connects to the SMTP port.
> 
> So, I figure this is the problem.  However, I dug for a while (hour?)
> and I can't figure out how to configure sendmail to accept local
> mail on port 25.... I'm running RH 6.1 , so I guess they have
> a new configuration default since it did work before without
> any problems.
> 
> Best,
> 
> Clark
> 
> 
> 




From gossamer at tertius.net.au  Sun Nov 21 00:54:04 1999
From: gossamer at tertius.net.au (Bek Oberin)
Date: Sun, 21 Nov 1999 10:54:04 +1100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Fwd: Undelivered Mail Returned to Sender
Message-ID: <19991121105403.A10826@tertius.net.au>

This one's not being caught by the bounce detection
of Mailman ...


bekj

----- Forwarded message from Mail Delivery System <MAILER-DAEMON at connect.com.au> -----

Date: Sun, 21 Nov 1999 06:23:51 +1100 (EST)
From: MAILER-DAEMON at connect.com.au (Mail Delivery System)
Subject: Undelivered Mail Returned to Sender
To: ozme-admin at tertius.net.au

Content-Description: Notification
This is the Postfix program at host koro.off.connect.com.au.

I'm sorry to have to inform you that the message returned
below could not be delivered to one or more destinations.

For further assistance, please contact <postmaster at connect.com.au>

If you do so, please include this problem report. You can
delete your own text from the message returned below.

			The Postfix program

<pauldunstan at yarrina.connect.com.au>: unknown user: "pauldunstan"


Content-Description: Undelivered Message
From: ozme-admin at tertius.net.au
Date: Sun, 21 Nov 1999 06:27:38 +1100
To: ozme at tertius.net.au
Subject: OzME digest, Vol 1 #195 - 8 msgs
Reply-To: ozme at tertius.net.au


Send OzME mailing list submissions to
	ozme at tertius.net.au

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the web, visit
	http://www.tertius.net.au/mailman/listinfo/ozme
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
	ozme-request at tertius.net.au
You can reach the person managing the list at
	ozme-admin at tertius.net.au

When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than
"Re: Contents of OzME digest..."


Today's Topics:

  1. Re: Tr : Wessely's post on CO-CURE (Alexa McLaughlin)
  2. Re: Bananas (Eva Salomon)
  3. Until we meet again (Catherine Archambault)
  4. Hamilton Is. Billboard (Lynda)
  5. I'm finally well again... (Michael 'BeLFrY' S. E. Kraus)
  6. Re: Bananas (Michael 'BeLFrY' S. E. Kraus)
  7. Re: I'm finally well again... (Joanne)
  8. A few useful things (Alexa McLaughlin)

--__--__--

Message: 1
Date: Sat, 20 Nov 1999 07:19:05 +1100
To: ozme at tertius.net.au
From: Alexa McLaughlin <alexa at pcug.org.au>
Subject: Re: [OzME]Tr : Wessely's post on CO-CURE
Reply-To: ozme at tertius.net.au

Dear Nelly

I have downloaded the Wessely article but not read it yet so don't yet
share your anger at its content.

I have another thought though - I would ALWAYS prefer to know what's going
on so did value COCURE posting it. It's about sharing information, not
agreeing with it.

Hope you are doing as well as possible.

Best wishes

Alexa

At 14:10 19/11/1999 +0200, you wrote:
>
>This is a copy of a mail I sent the co-cure moderators re wessely's recent
>post (which I do NOT wish to reproduce here)
>I did read it though and it is once more soooo pathetic I rekon you would do
>yourself a favour by not reading it.
>
>Nelly (angry, wish I could save myself this kind of aggravation!)
>
>
>
>I am appaled that the co-cure moderators should have decided to allow
>Wessely to post his article to the list. Why on earth would we want:
>
>snip

-****************************************************
-alexa at pcug.org.au     Canberra, ACT, Australia
-?  Alexa McLaughlin (1999)   All Rights Reserved.
-This post, in part or in full, may NOT be reproduced or forwarded to
-anyone, anywhere, anytime, without the writer's prior written consent.
-****************************************************

--__--__--

Message: 2
From: "Eva Salomon" <eva173 at ap.com.au>
To: <ozme at tertius.net.au>
Subject: Re: [OzME]Bananas
Date: Sat, 20 Nov 1999 10:31:50 +1100
charset="iso-8859-1"
Reply-To: ozme at tertius.net.au

> I have fybromyalgia and crave bananas. I weaned myself off them for a
> couple of weeks and have never slept worse. I have always eaten at least
> 2 large bananas a day but decided maybe the sugar content was too great
> and could be causing more harm than not.

Carolyn,

My understanding (from my GP, my Naturopath, and the reading I've done) is
that it's really only glucose (and unnatural sweeteners) that people with
FMS need to reduce. Fructose is fine. Eat as much fruit as you want and you
can even use fructose (buy it at the health food shop) instead of 'sugar' in
cakes and drinks etc. It's much sweeter than normal sugar and so you use
less of it too. It just takes a while to get the proportions worked out.

Gentle hugs,
Eva :-)


--__--__--

Message: 3
From: "Catherine Archambault" <csarchambault at snet.net>
To: "OzME" <ozme at tertius.net.au>
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1999 09:37:47 -0500
charset="iso-8859-1"
Subject: [OzME]Until we meet again
Reply-To: ozme at tertius.net.au

Hi All,

    I have had to stop getting this email because I can't keep up at this
time. I will keep you all in my prayers............Gentle
hugs.......Catherine



--__--__--

Message: 4
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 19:32:57 +1000
To: ozme at tertius.net.au
From: Lynda <merlinm at dingoblue.net.au>
Subject: [OzME]Hamilton Is. Billboard
Reply-To: ozme at tertius.net.au

Hi Everyone,
I have sent a copy of the article to several people on the list. When Joanne
put a copy up on her web page I thought it would be a good idea to suggest to
those who didnt get a copy from me to see it there. If you cant access the url,
I will happily send it direct just let me know.
hugs
Lynda 

--__--__--

Message: 5
Date: Sat, 20 Nov 1999 16:13:42 +1100
From: "Michael 'BeLFrY' S. E. Kraus" <belfry at nsw.bigpond.net.au>
To: ozme at tertius.net.au
Subject: [OzME]I'm finally well again...
Reply-To: ozme at tertius.net.au

G'day all...

I'm very pleased to say that my condition has progressed enough for me
not to consider myself as a person living with CFS/ME anymore. =)

I suffered from CFS/ME for over ten years, and now the painful challenge
is finally drawing to a close.

I am now well enough again to enter the workforce, and am now an analyst
programmer for Cerner, a company which produces hospital management
software.

Fortuneately for me, I eventually found a good and understanding doctor.
Also, I take Herbalife which has helped me immensely, and keeps me well
(if you want to talk to me about the products - contact me personally -
FWIW, I don't sell them and don't profit financially at all from it.)

Thanks are due to Bek and the wonderfully diverse people on this list.

I think one of the key issues with my healing process was that I always
kept the belief that one day I would get better. Even though I may
always carry recurrant glandular fever, and have to stay intuned with my
body - life is so much better now, and the frustrations associated with
the DD are disappearing.

I will stay on the mailing list for a short while longer, and be
removing myself within a week or two.

Lotsa...

Michael.

--__--__--

Message: 6
Date: Sat, 20 Nov 1999 16:20:36 +1100
From: "Michael 'BeLFrY' S. E. Kraus" <belfry at nsw.bigpond.net.au>
To: ozme at tertius.net.au
Subject: Re: [OzME]Bananas
Reply-To: ozme at tertius.net.au

G'day...

> I have fybromyalgia and crave bananas. I weaned myself off them for a
> couple of weeks and have never slept worse. I have always eaten at least
> 2 large bananas a day but decided maybe the sugar content was too great
> and could be causing more harm than not. I have not decided.

The sugar in Bananas (fructose) is more easily handled by the body then
sucrose (table sugar) is, and doesn't leave your blood sugar levels in a
sorry state of affairs like sucrose.

All the best...

Michael.

--__--__--

Message: 7
Reply-To: "Joanne" <joanne at idl.net.au>
From: "Joanne" <joanne at idl.net.au>
To: <ozme at tertius.net.au>
Subject: Re: [OzME]I'm finally well again...
Date: Sat, 20 Nov 1999 16:22:06 +1100
charset="iso-8859-1"
Reply-To: ozme at tertius.net.au

> I'm very pleased to say that my condition has progressed enough for me
> not to consider myself as a person living with CFS/ME anymore. =)


Congratulations. I'm sure messages like this give people hope, and I may not
be too far behind you either. I'm working part time (for myself, but still
putting in the hours none the less) and getting stronger every day. Best of
luck for your future.

Joanne
joanne at idl.net.au
http://cust.idl.com.au/joanne



--__--__--

Message: 8
Date: Sat, 20 Nov 1999 21:36:38 +1100
To: ozme at tertius.net.au
From: Alexa McLaughlin <alexa at pcug.org.au>
Subject: [OzME]A few useful things
Reply-To: ozme at tertius.net.au

Hi

Don't even mention my case ------

Just thought I'd pass on a couple of things which have been useful.

Had some kinesiology recently and haven't had another fever (lots and lots
of them in the last year). I was getting desperate enough to front an
infectious disease specialist half-willing to use a potent anti-viral and
this is much better! That may be coincidence but I'm pleased for now and
will keep you posted. 

I have also got a much clearer picture of how to do some useful thinking
work (take time off, recreate, not just rest and work). I put the good
sense also down to the kinesiology. Since I have been telling everybody in
my support network for 15 months what I was doing (essentially working and
resting) and none of those conversations helped me to realise how foolish
that was, I think it's quite likely the kinesiology had something to do
with it.

The other thing is that I sprained an ankle a couple of weeks ago (which is
a story in itself) and had some "shock" type symptoms and so used arnica
ointment (very useful) and rescue remedy plus arnica drops in SALINE not
alcohol. 

I took them under the tongue - the saline seemed to help my NMH which
indicates that swallowing salt tablets wasn't working - presumably my
stomach doesn't absorb, so now I take the salt tablets under the tongue.

Even more brilliant is that I used the drops when I'd had a bad diesel
exposure (in central Sydney) which had started to make me cranky and crying
- after the drops I could feel my throat choked but I kept a straight face
- very suitable when dealing with others.

I thought that might have been a fluke but used them today when I
unexpectedly encountered perfume which had knocked out my thinking - which
returned quite quickly compared to the usual hours - while still exposed.

Vitamin C never really worked for either situation - presumably because it
wasn't absorbed. Nor was tri salts much use. It's great to have found a
quick fix!

I still intend to avoid chemicals where possible but really like the idea
of being able to function more in the polluted world when I choose.

Best wishes

Alexa


-****************************************************
-alexa at pcug.org.au     Canberra, ACT, Australia
-?  Alexa McLaughlin (1999)   All Rights Reserved.
-This post, in part or in full, may NOT be reproduced or forwarded to
-anyone, anywhere, anytime, without the writer's prior written consent.
-****************************************************



--__--__--

_______________________________________________
OzME maillist  -  OzME at tertius.net.au
http://www.tertius.net.au/mailman/listinfo/ozme


End of OzME Digest


----- End forwarded message -----

-- 
: --Hacker-Neophile-Eclectic-Geek-Grrl-Queer-Disabled-Boychick--
: gossamer at tertius.net.au   http://www.tertius.net.au/~gossamer/
: Knowledge is just opinion that you trust enough to act upon.
: -- Orson Scott Card, Children of the Mind



From christopher at schulte.org  Sun Nov 21 07:59:57 1999
From: christopher at schulte.org (Christopher Schulte)
Date: Sun, 21 Nov 1999 00:59:57 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Fwd: Undelivered Mail Returned to Sender
In-Reply-To: <19991121105403.A10826@tertius.net.au>
Message-ID: <4.2.1.19991121005329.021b9980@pop.schulte.org>

At 10:54 AM 11/21/1999 +1100, you wrote:
 >This one's not being caught by the bounce detection
 >of Mailman ...

I also get messages which are not processed.  Here's a few listed below, in 
quotes.

 >To: pptp-server-admin at lists.schulte.org
 >Subject: DELIVERY FAILURE: Error transferring to CTD02/CT/SPIROL/US
 >mail.box; Cannot
 > convert MIME message to Notes Rich Text message.
 >
 >
 >Your message
 >
 >
 >  Subject: Re: [pptp-server] Newbie question
 >
 >
 >was not delivered to:
 >
 >
 >  mjtrudea at spirol.com
 >
 >
 >because:
 >
 >
 >  Error transferring to CTD02/CT/SPIROL/US mail.box; Cannot convert MIME
 >message to Notes Rich Text message.
 >
 >
 >Reporting-MTA: dns;MAIL.SPIROL.COM
 >
 >
 >Final-Recipient: rfc822;mjtrudea at spirol.com
 >Action: failed
 >Status: 5.0.0
 >Remote-MTA: x-Notes;CN=CTD02/OU=CT/O=SPIROL/C=US
 >Diagnostic-Code: X-Notes; Error transferring to CTD02/CT/SPIROL/US mail.box;
 >Cannot convert MIME message to Notes Rich Text message.
 >Received: from snaildust.schulte.org ([209.98.55.108])
 >          by MAIL.SPIROL.COM (Lotus Domino Release 5.0.1a (Intl))
 >          with ESMTP id 1999111907594815:2962 ;
 >          Fri, 19 Nov 1999 07:59:48 -0500
 >Received: (from daemon at localhost)
 >        by snaildust.schulte.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id GAA17998;
 >        Fri, 19 Nov 1999 06:33:51 -0600
 >Received: from localhost(127.0.0.1), claiming to be "snaildust.schulte.org"
 > via SMTP by localhost, id smtpda17978; Fri Nov 19 06:33:42 1999
 >Received: (from daemon at localhost)
 >        by snaildust.schulte.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id GAA17949
 >        for <pptp-server at lists.schulte.org>; Fri, 19 Nov 1999 06:33:31 -0600
 >Received: from laposte.bsf.alcatel.fr(193.104.128.7), claiming to be
 >"bsf.alcatel.fr"
 > via SMTP by snaildust.schulte.org, id smtpda17903; Fri Nov 19 06:33:26 1999
 >Received: from mail (mail.sxb.bsf.alcatel.fr [155.132.20.69])
 >        by bsf.alcatel.fr (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA12830;
 >        Fri, 19 Nov 1999 13:31:40 +0100 (MET)
 >Received: from cerbere by mail (SMI-8.6/ABS1.4) id NAA18257; Fri, 19 Nov
 >1999 13:27:20 +0100
 >Received: from sxb.bsf.alcatel.fr by cerbere (8.8.8+Sun/ABS1.5) id NAA28540;
 >Fri, 19 Nov 1999 13:27:11 +0100 (MET)
 >Message-ID: <383541E6.B3E8DF82 at sxb.bsf.alcatel.fr>
 >Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1999 13:26:14 +0100
 >From: Pascal Fremaux <pf at sxb.bsf.alcatel.fr>
 >Reply-To: pascal.fremaux at sxb.bsf.alcatel.fr
 >Organization: Alcatel Telecom
 >X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.12 i686)
 >X-Accept-Language: en
 >MIME-Version: 1.0
 >To: Tony Galan <t_galan at pacbell.net>
 >CC: Pptp-Server <pptp-server at lists.schulte.org>
 >Subject: Re: [pptp-server] Newbie question
 >References: <NDBBKIIDGMGCKGIGEGIEOECJCKAA.t_galan at pacbell.net>
 >Sender: pptp-server-admin at lists.schulte.org
 >Errors-To: pptp-server-admin at lists.schulte.org
 >X-Mailman-Version: 1.0
 >Precedence: bulk
 >List-Id: The Linux PPTP Server <pptp-server.lists.schulte.org>
 >X-BeenThere: pptp-server at lists.schulte.org
 >X-MIMETrack: Itemize by SMTP Server on MAIL/Spirol/US(Release 5.0.1a
 >(Intl)|17 August
 > 1999) at 11-19-99 07:59:48 AM,
 >        Serialize by Router on MAIL/Spirol/US(Release 5.0.1a (Intl)|17
 >August 1999) at
 > 11-19-99 07:59:57 AM,
 >        Serialize complete at 11-19-99 07:59:57 AM
 >X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
 >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
 >Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii

AND:

 >To: pptp-server-admin at lists.schulte.org
 >Subject: Returned mail: Too many hops 35 (25 max): from
 ><pptp-server-admin at lists.schulte.org> via localhost, to <fmarta at localhost>
 >
 >
 >The original message was received at Thu, 18 Nov 1999 20:00:03 -0800
 >from localhost [127.0.0.1]
 >
 >
 >   ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----
 >"|IFS=' '&&exec /usr/bin/procmail -f-||exit 75 #fmarta"
 >    (expanded from: <fmarta at localhost>)
 >
 >
 >   ----- Transcript of session follows -----
 >554 Too many hops 35 (25 max): from <pptp-server-admin at lists.schulte.org>
 >via localhost, to <fmarta at localhost>
 >Reporting-MTA: dns; fmarta.office.etoys.com
 >Received-From-MTA: DNS; localhost
 >Arrival-Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 20:00:03 -0800
 >
 >
 >Final-Recipient: RFC822; <fmarta at localhost>
 >X-Actual-Recipient: RFC822; "|IFS=' '&&exec /usr/bin/procmail -f-||exit 75
 >#fmarta"@fmarta.office.etoys.com
 >Action: failed
 >Status: 5.0.0
 >Last-Attempt-Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 20:00:03 -0800
 >Return-Path: <pptp-server-admin at lists.schulte.org>
 >Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1])
 >        by fmarta.office.etoys.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA31571
 >        for <fmarta at localhost>; Thu, 18 Nov 1999 20:00:03 -0800
 >Received: from exchange.office.etoys.com
 >        by fetchmail-4.5.8 POP3
 >        for <fmarta/localhost> (single-drop); Thu, 18 Nov 1999 20:00:03 PST
 >Received: from etoy2.etoys.com (mail.etoys.com [209.218.173.164]) by
 >exchange.office.etoys.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail
 >Service Version 5.5.2650.21)
 >        id XC7Z3PM5; Thu, 18 Nov 1999 20:00:17 -0800
 >Received: (qmail 21401 invoked by uid 600); 19 Nov 1999 03:59:34 -0000
 >Received: (qmail 21394 invoked from network); 19 Nov 1999 03:59:34 -0000
 >Received: from unknown (HELO idealab.com) (209.143.242.131)
 >  by mail.etoys.com with SMTP; 19 Nov 1999 03:59:34 -0000
 >Received: (qmail 21854 invoked from network); 19 Nov 1999 03:18:49 -0000
 >Received: from simpurio.idealab.com (HELO idealab.com) (206.132.100.54)
 >  by mx1.idealab.com.pixville.idealab.com with SMTP; 19 Nov 1999 03:18:49 
-0000
 >Received: (qmail 21599 invoked from network); 19 Nov 1999 03:21:05 -0000
 >Received: from unknown (HELO idealab.com) (209.143.242.131)
 >  by simpurio.idealab.com with SMTP; 19 Nov 1999 03:21:05 -0000
 >Received: (qmail 16043 invoked from network); 19 Nov 1999 02:04:49 -0000
 >Received: from simpurio.idealab.com (HELO idealab.com) (206.132.100.54)
 >  by mx1.idealab.com.pixville.idealab.com with SMTP; 19 Nov 1999 02:04:49 
-0000
 >Received: (qmail 21732 invoked from network); 19 Nov 1999 02:07:08 -0000
 >Received: from unknown (HELO idealab.com) (209.143.242.131)
 >  by simpurio.idealab.com with SMTP; 19 Nov 1999 02:07:07 -0000
 >Received: (qmail 16783 invoked from network); 19 Nov 1999 00:53:56 -0000
 >Received: from simpurio.idealab.com (HELO idealab.com) (206.132.100.54)
 >  by mx1.idealab.com.pixville.idealab.com with SMTP; 19 Nov 1999 00:53:56 
-0000
 >Received: (qmail 26552 invoked from network); 19 Nov 1999 00:56:08 -0000
 >Received: from unknown (HELO idealab.com) (209.143.242.131)
 >  by simpurio.idealab.com with SMTP; 19 Nov 1999 00:56:08 -0000
 >Received: (qmail 26092 invoked from network); 18 Nov 1999 23:54:28 -0000
 >Received: from simpurio.idealab.com (HELO idealab.com) (206.132.100.54)
 >  by mx1.idealab.com.pixville.idealab.com with SMTP; 18 Nov 1999 23:54:28 
-0000
 >Received: (qmail 15292 invoked from network); 18 Nov 1999 23:56:45 -0000
 >Received: from unknown (HELO idealab.com) (209.143.242.131)
 >  by simpurio.idealab.com with SMTP; 18 Nov 1999 23:56:44 -0000
 >Received: (qmail 11392 invoked from network); 18 Nov 1999 23:18:29 -0000
 >Received: from simpurio.idealab.com (HELO idealab.com) (206.132.100.54)
 >  by mx1.idealab.com.pixville.idealab.com with SMTP; 18 Nov 1999 23:18:29 
-0000
 >Received: (qmail 32673 invoked from network); 18 Nov 1999 23:20:33 -0000
 >Received: from unknown (HELO idealab.com) (209.143.242.131)
 >  by simpurio.idealab.com with SMTP; 18 Nov 1999 23:20:32 -0000
 >Received: (qmail 1469 invoked from network); 18 Nov 1999 22:55:00 -0000
 >Received: from simpurio.idealab.com (HELO idealab.com) (206.132.100.54)
 >  by mx1.idealab.com.pixville.idealab.com with SMTP; 18 Nov 1999 22:55:00 
-0000
 >Received: (qmail 21502 invoked from network); 18 Nov 1999 22:59:56 -0000
 >Received: from unknown (HELO snaildust.schulte.org) (209.98.55.108)
 >  by corleone.idealab.com with SMTP; 18 Nov 1999 22:59:56 -0000
 >Received: (from daemon at localhost)
 >        by snaildust.schulte.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id QAA12006;
 >        Thu, 18 Nov 1999 16:53:46 -0600
 >Received: from localhost(127.0.0.1), claiming to be "snaildust.schulte.org"
 > via SMTP by localhost, id smtpda11991; Thu Nov 18 16:53:43 1999
 >Received: (from daemon at localhost)
 >        by snaildust.schulte.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id QAA11962
 >        for <pptp-server at lists.schulte.org>; Thu, 18 Nov 1999 16:53:36 -0600
 >Received: from fw.opustel.com(204.32.90.65)
 > via SMTP by snaildust.schulte.org, id smtpda11960; Thu Nov 18 16:53:31 1999
 >Received: from software5 (software5.opustel.com [198.28.8.175]) by
 >fw.opustel.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id RAA20100 for
 ><pptp-server at lists.schulte.org>; Thu, 18 Nov 1999 17:53:22 -0500
 >Delivered-To: mostmail-etoy1-fmarta at etoys.com
 >Message-ID: <006001bf3217$b95efd30$af081cc6 at opustel.com>
 >From: "Keith Garry Boyce" <garp at opustel.com>
 >To: <pptp-server at lists.schulte.org>
 >Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 17:53:21 -0500
 >MIME-Version: 1.0
 >Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
 >        boundary="----=_NextPart_000_005D_01BF31ED.CD8CF340"
 >X-Priority: 3
 >X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
 >X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300
 >X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300
 >Subject: [pptp-server] security with slirp?
 >Sender: pptp-server-admin at lists.schulte.org
 >Errors-To: pptp-server-admin at lists.schulte.org
 >X-Mailman-Version: 1.0
 >Precedence: bulk
 >List-Id: The Linux PPTP Server <pptp-server.lists.schulte.org>
 >X-BeenThere: pptp-server at lists.schulte.org

AND:


 >To: pptp-server-admin at lists.schulte.org
 >Subject: failure delivery
 >
 >
 >Message from  yahoo.com.
 >Unable to deliver message to the following address(es).
 >
 >
 ><john_g11 at yahoo.com>:
 >User is over the quota.  You can try again later.
 >
 >
 >
 >--- Original message follows.

--
NAME: Christopher Schulte
MAIL: christopher at schulte.org
SITE: http://www.schulte.org/
FINGER(PGP): christopher at schulte.org

"why they gotta kill what we found
why they gotta hate what they fear
why they gotta make it go away
why they gotta make it disappear"
--Trent Reznor, Nine Inch Nails Halo 14




From matthew at davin.ottawa.on.ca  Sun Nov 21 19:23:59 1999
From: matthew at davin.ottawa.on.ca (Matthew Darwin)
Date: Sun, 21 Nov 1999 13:23:59 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] (no subject)
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.02A.9911211320340.24443-100000@caribou.davin.ottawa.on.ca>

Bug in Mailman version 1.1

We're sorry, we hit a bug!

If you would like to help us identify the problem, please email a copy of
this page to the webmaster for this site with a description of what
happened. Thanks! 

Traceback:


Traceback (innermost last):
  File "/local/mailman/scripts/driver", line 112, in run_main
    main()
  File "/local/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/admindb.py", line 112, in main
    HandleRequests(doc)
  File "/local/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/admindb.py", line 200, in
HandleRequests
    list.HandleRequest(request, v, form[comment_key].value)
  File "/local/mailman/Mailman/ListAdmin.py", line 122, in HandleRequest
    self.HandlePostRequest(request_data[2:], value, comment)
  File "/local/mailman/Mailman/ListAdmin.py", line 167, in
HandlePostRequest
    self.LogMsg("vette", note)
  File "/local/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 835, in LogMsg
    logf.write(msg % args + '\n')
TypeError: not enough arguments for format string





Environment variables:

 Variable
                        Value
 DOCUMENT_ROOT 
                        /home/www/lists 
 SERVER_ADDR 
                        209.217.122.211 
 HTTP_ACCEPT_ENCODING
                        gzip 
 REMOTE_HOST 
                        bear.davin.loran.com 
 CONTENT_TYPE 
                        application/x-www-form-urlencoded 
 PATH_TRANSLATED 
                        /home/www/lists/internet-bob 
 REMOTE_ADDR 
                        192.168.0.100 
 SERVER_SOFTWARE 
                        Apache/1.3.9 (Unix) mod_perl/1.21 
 GATEWAY_INTERFACE 
                        CGI/1.1 
 HTTP_COOKIE 

internet-bob:admin="(lp0\012S'192.168.0.100'\012p1\012aI943199925\012aI943210725\012aI124249136\012a."
 HTTP_ACCEPT_LANGUAGE
                        en 
 REMOTE_PORT 
                        1535 
 SERVER_PORT 
                        80 
 HTTP_CONNECTION 
                        Keep-Alive 
 HTTP_USER_AGENT 
                        Mozilla/4.7 [en] (Win98; I) 
 HTTP_ACCEPT_CHARSET 
                        iso-8859-1,*,utf-8 
 HTTP_ACCEPT 
                        image/gif, image/x-xbitmap, image/jpeg,
image/pjpeg, image/png, */* 
 REQUEST_URI 
                        /mailman/admindb/internet-bob 
 PATH @n:/usr/b
                        




From matthew at davin.ottawa.on.ca  Sun Nov 21 19:33:28 1999
From: matthew at davin.ottawa.on.ca (Matthew Darwin)
Date: Sun, 21 Nov 1999 13:33:28 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bug in administrative requests
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.02A.9911211332440.24805-100000@caribou.davin.ottawa.on.ca>

One of my list administrators can't removed queued up messages in the
admin section of his mailing list. I have no idea what to do.  Help!


------------------

Bug in Mailman version 1.1

We're sorry, we hit a bug!

If you would like to help us identify the problem, please email a copy of this page to the webmaster for this site with a description of what
happened. Thanks! 

Traceback:


Traceback (innermost last):
  File "/local/mailman/scripts/driver", line 112, in run_main
    main()
  File "/local/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/admindb.py", line 112, in main
    HandleRequests(doc)
  File "/local/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/admindb.py", line 200, in HandleRequests
    list.HandleRequest(request, v, form[comment_key].value)
  File "/local/mailman/Mailman/ListAdmin.py", line 122, in HandleRequest
    self.HandlePostRequest(request_data[2:], value, comment)
  File "/local/mailman/Mailman/ListAdmin.py", line 167, in HandlePostRequest
    self.LogMsg("vette", note)
  File "/local/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 835, in LogMsg
    logf.write(msg % args + '\n')
TypeError: not enough arguments for format string





Environment variables:

 Variable
                        Value
 DOCUMENT_ROOT 
                        /home/www/lists 
 SERVER_ADDR 
                        209.217.122.211 
 HTTP_ACCEPT_ENCODING
                        gzip 
 REMOTE_HOST 
                        bear.davin.loran.com 
 CONTENT_TYPE 
                        application/x-www-form-urlencoded 
 PATH_TRANSLATED 
                        /home/www/lists/internet-bob 
 REMOTE_ADDR 
                        192.168.0.100 
 SERVER_SOFTWARE 
                        Apache/1.3.9 (Unix) mod_perl/1.21 
 GATEWAY_INTERFACE 
                        CGI/1.1 
 HTTP_COOKIE 
                        internet-bob:admin="(lp0\012S'192.168.0.100'\012p1\012aI943199925\012aI943210725\012aI124249136\012a."
 HTTP_ACCEPT_LANGUAGE
                        en 
 REMOTE_PORT 
                        1535 
 SERVER_PORT 
                        80 
 HTTP_CONNECTION 
                        Keep-Alive 
 HTTP_USER_AGENT 
                        Mozilla/4.7 [en] (Win98; I) 
 HTTP_ACCEPT_CHARSET 
                        iso-8859-1,*,utf-8 
 HTTP_ACCEPT 
                        image/gif, image/x-xbitmap, image/jpeg, image/pjpeg, image/png, */* 
 REQUEST_URI 
                        /mailman/admindb/internet-bob 
 PATH 
                        ?@n:/usr/b 
 QUERY_STRING 
 SERVER_PROTOCOL 
                        HTTP/1.0 
 CONTENT_LENGTH 
                        14563 
 HTTP_HOST 
                        lists.davin.ottawa.on.ca 
 REQUEST_METHOD 
                        POST 
 SERVER_SIGNATURE 
 SCRIPT_NAME 
                        /mailman/admindb 
 SERVER_ADMIN 
                        webmaster at davin.ottawa.on.ca 
 SCRIPT_FILENAME 
                        /local/mailman/cgi-bin/admindb 
 PYTHONPATH 
                        /local/mailman 
 PATH_INFO 
                        /internet-bob 
 HTTP_REFERER 
                        http://lists.davin.ottawa.on.ca/mailman/admindb/internet-bob 
 SERVER_NAME 
                        lists.davin.ottawa.on.ca 






From tom at suespammers.org  Mon Nov 22 00:24:15 1999
From: tom at suespammers.org (Tom Geller)
Date: Sun, 21 Nov 1999 15:24:15 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moving archives
Message-ID: <199911212315.PAA01981@plushie.suespammers.org>

O.K., I know this is an old, oft-visited question, but here goes...

Is there a way to convert the config.db files for moving over to a new 
directory structure? We moved everything from one directory to another on 
the same machine, and don't want to have to recreate users, lists, 
archives etc.

Better yet, can someone point me to instructions on moving lists in toto 
from one directory to another?

Thanks,


---
              Tom "I am not a lawyer" Geller
    Geller Communications  *  San Francisco * tgeller.com
Other domains: suespammers.org, openppc.org, popcomputers.com




From harvey at eccnet.com  Mon Nov 22 02:50:33 1999
From: harvey at eccnet.com (Betty Harvey)
Date: Sun, 21 Nov 1999 20:50:33 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Linux Upgrade and Mailman Problems
Message-ID: <3838A169.1F2C217D@eccnet.com>

I upgraded the operating system from Redhat Linux 5.2 to Redhat
Linux 6.1.  Now Mailman doesn't work.  Signing up for the list
works but the following message is received when you send
a response back:

   ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----
"|/home/httpd/html/mailman/mail/wrapper mailcmd xmlusers"
    (expanded from: <xmlusers-request at ecc05.eccnet.com>)

   ----- Transcript of session follows -----
sh: wrapper not available for sendmail programs
554 "|/home/httpd/html/mailman/mail/wrapper mailcmd xmlusers"... Service
unavailable                    

I tried reinstalling Mailman and I receive the following error:

checking permissions on /home/httpd/html/mailman... configure: error:
***** Installation directory /home/httpd/html/mailman is not configured
properly
!
***** Directory must be owned by group mailman:
/home/httpd/html/mailman  
The directory and all directories below are owned by mailman
and the group is mailman.

Redhat 6.1 uses sendmail 8.9.3.  We had to modify the sendmail
configuration in order to get sendmail working.  I think that
my problem may be a sendmail problem and not a 'mailman' problem.

Anyone have any ideas?  Thanks in advance!

Betty

/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/
Betty Harvey                         | Phone: 301-540-8251 FAX: 4268
Electronic Commerce Connection, Inc. |
13017 Wisteria Drive, P.O. Box 333   |
Germantown, Md.  20874               |
harvey at eccnet.com                    | Washington,DC SGML/XML Users Grp
URL:  http://www.eccnet.com          | http://www.eccnet.com/xmlug/
/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\\/\/



From lindsey at ncsa.uiuc.edu  Mon Nov 22 03:09:11 1999
From: lindsey at ncsa.uiuc.edu (Christopher Lindsey)
Date: Sun, 21 Nov 1999 20:09:11 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Linux Upgrade and Mailman Problems
In-Reply-To: <3838A169.1F2C217D@eccnet.com> from "Betty Harvey" at Nov 21, 99 08:50:33 pm
Message-ID: <199911220209.UAA24634@ferret.ncsa.uiuc.edu>

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From harvey at eccnet.eccnet.com  Mon Nov 22 04:25:44 1999
From: harvey at eccnet.eccnet.com (Betty L. Harvey)
Date: Sun, 21 Nov 1999 22:25:44 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Linux Upgrade and Mailman Problems
In-Reply-To: <199911220209.UAA24634@ferret.ncsa.uiuc.edu>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.10.9911212224500.4620-100000@eccnet.eccnet.com>

Thank you very much !!!   That worked! 

Betty

/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/
Betty Harvey                         | Phone: 301-540-8251 FAX: 4268
Electronic Commerce Connection, Inc. | 
13017 Wisteria Drive, P.O. Box 333   | 
Germantown, Md.  20874               |
harvey at eccnet.com                    | Washington,DC SGML/XML Users Grp
URL:  http://www.eccnet.com          | http://www.eccnet.com/xmlug/
/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\\/\/  



On Sun, 21 Nov 1999, Christopher Lindsey wrote:

> > sh: wrapper not available for sendmail programs
> > 554 "|/home/httpd/html/mailman/mail/wrapper mailcmd xmlusers"... Service
> > unavailable                    
> > 
> > Redhat 6.1 uses sendmail 8.9.3.  We had to modify the sendmail
> > configuration in order to get sendmail working.  I think that
> > my problem may be a sendmail problem and not a 'mailman' problem.
> 
> This is from the new README.SENDMAIL in the CVS tree (not in
> the distribution yet, so don't worry, you didn't miss anything
> super-obvious)...
> 
> Chris
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> SENDMAIL ISSUES
> 
> Many newer versions of Sendmail come with a restricted execution
> utility called "smrsh", which limits the executables that sendmail can
> use as mail filter programs.  You need to explicitly allow Mailman's
> wrapper program to be used with smrsh before it will work.  If mail is
> not getting delivered to Mailman's wrapper program and you're getting
> an "operating system error" in your mail syslog, this could be your
> problem.
> 
> One good way of doing this is to:
> 
>     - cd into /etc/smrsh (or where ever it happens to reside on your
>       system, such as /var/smrsh or /usr/local/smrsh).
> 
>     - create a symbolic link to Mailman's wrapper program
> 
> For example, if you've installed Mailman in the standard location, you
> can just execute these commands (you might have to do these as root):
> 
>     % cd /etc/smrsh
>     % ln -s /home/mailman/mail/wrapper wrapper
> 
> One complication: if you're running Majordomo and Mailman
> simultaneously (i.e. in the process of migrating from MD to MM :),
> then you might have a small problem because Majordomo also uses a
> program called `wrapper'.  In this case, Paul Tomblin suggests calling
> the Mailman symlink `mailman_wrapper', and changing the alias entries
> to call this instead of `wrapper'.  You might want to hack bin/newlist
> to output this instead.
> 




From claw at kanga.nu  Mon Nov 22 07:34:26 1999
From: claw at kanga.nu (claw at kanga.nu)
Date: Sun, 21 Nov 1999 22:34:26 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moving archives 
In-Reply-To: Message from Tom Geller <tom@suespammers.org> 
   of "Sun, 21 Nov 1999 15:24:15 PST." <199911212315.PAA01981@plushie.suespammers.org> 
Message-ID: <E11pn3S-0003qs-00@koala.kanga.nu>

On Sun, 21 Nov 1999 15:24:15 -0800 
Tom Geller <tom at suespammers.org> wrote:

> Better yet, can someone point me to instructions on moving lists
> in toto from one directory to another?

Quite simply, just move everything under ~mailman/lists to the new
location and everything should be fine. modulo and private hacks
you've made to the MailMan sources.

-- 
J C Lawrence                              Internet: claw at kanga.nu
----------(*)                       Internet: claw at varesearch.com
...Honorary Member of Clan McFud -- Teamer's Avenging Monolith...



From CHAMPETH at e-i.com  Mon Nov 22 09:14:03 1999
From: CHAMPETH at e-i.com (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Thi=E9baut_Champenier?=)
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 09:14:03 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman customization
Message-ID: <19991122091403.D29190@firework.eid-bad.e-i.com>

Hi all,

I have a customer with very special needs (as usual with customers:)
for one of his Mailing Lists: he needs a "diffusion only" list:

* only the list admins can subscribe/unsubscribe users, no
  user confirmation is required,
  
* only a few users are allowed to post to the list (1 or 2 of the
  admins in fact),
  
* users have no password, they just don't know they're on a ML,

* no welcome email on subscription, no monthly reminder, no subject
  line prefix, etc..
  
Actually all that I need is to cut out features from the MLM for this
special list!  So, do you know if this can be achieved by changing the
options or do I have to modify the code of Mailman?

If it's possible to efficiently modify Mailman to add the per-list
config options that allow the above "features", I'd prefer this
solution to learning another MLM that can handle it directly (I don't
know if there's one).

I want a stable Mailman, so should I start working on the CVS version
or on the 1.1 release?

If those modifications interest someone else, I can make them public.
Oh, while I'm here, I've translated to french almost all of the
Mailman messages (the .txt and .html, but not those in the code),
here too if someone is interested, just ring me.

-- 
Thi?baut CHAMPENIER



From ptomblin at xcski.com  Mon Nov 22 13:07:19 1999
From: ptomblin at xcski.com (Paul Tomblin)
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 07:07:19 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman customization
In-Reply-To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=3C19991122091403=2ED29190=40firework=2Eeid-bad=2Ee-i=2Ec?=
 =?iso-8859-1?Q?om=3E=3B_from_Thi=E9baut_Champenier_on_Mon=2C_Nov_22=2C_1?=
 =?iso-8859-1?Q?999_at_09:14:03AM_+0100?=
References: <19991122091403.D29190@firework.eid-bad.e-i.com>
Message-ID: <19991122070719.A4590@xcski.com>

Quoting Thi?baut Champenier (CHAMPETH at e-i.com):
> Hi all,
> 
> I have a customer with very special needs (as usual with customers:)
> for one of his Mailing Lists: he needs a "diffusion only" list:
> 
> * only the list admins can subscribe/unsubscribe users, no
>   user confirmation is required,
>   
> * only a few users are allowed to post to the list (1 or 2 of the
>   admins in fact),
>   
> * users have no password, they just don't know they're on a ML,
> 
> * no welcome email on subscription, no monthly reminder, no subject
>   line prefix, etc..

All of those things appear to be options on 1.1 lists already, with no code
changes required.  Except the no password thing.  But if they aren't modifying
their own options, they don't need to know that they have a password.

-- 
Paul Tomblin, not speaking for anybody.
SETI at Home:  Finally a *good* way to impress Jodie Foster
http://www.setiathome.ssl.berkeley.edu/



From CHAMPETH at e-i.com  Mon Nov 22 14:08:21 1999
From: CHAMPETH at e-i.com (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Thi=E9baut_Champenier?=)
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 14:08:21 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman customization
In-Reply-To: <19991122070719.A4590@xcski.com>; from ptomblin@xcski.com on Mon, Nov 22, 1999 at 07:07:19AM -0500
References: <19991122091403.D29190@firework.eid-bad.e-i.com> <19991122070719.A4590@xcski.com>
Message-ID: <19991122140821.H29190@firework.eid-bad.e-i.com>

On Mon, Nov 22, 1999 at 07:07:19AM -0500, Paul Tomblin wrote:
> Quoting Thi?baut Champenier (CHAMPETH at e-i.com):
> > * only the list admins can subscribe/unsubscribe users, no
> >   user confirmation is required,
> >   
> > * only a few users are allowed to post to the list (1 or 2 of the
> >   admins in fact),

> All of those things appear to be options on 1.1 lists already, with no code
> changes required. 

yes, but it generates admin approval requests whenever an user tries to
post/subscribe/unsubscribe...

...in fact I've realised it's not a big problem... it would be nice if it were
possible to send those approval requests to only a single admin (e.g. the 1st
one)



From ptomblin at xcski.com  Mon Nov 22 14:36:29 1999
From: ptomblin at xcski.com (Paul Tomblin)
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 08:36:29 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman customization
In-Reply-To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=3C19991122140821=2EH29190=40firework=2Eeid-bad=2Ee-i=2Ec?=
 =?iso-8859-1?Q?om=3E=3B_from_Thi=E9baut_Champenier_on_Mon=2C_Nov_22=2C_1?=
 =?iso-8859-1?Q?999_at_02:08:21PM_+0100?=
References: <19991122091403.D29190@firework.eid-bad.e-i.com> <19991122070719.A4590@xcski.com> <19991122140821.H29190@firework.eid-bad.e-i.com>
Message-ID: <19991122083629.A4703@xcski.com>

Quoting Thi?baut Champenier (CHAMPETH at e-i.com):
> ...in fact I've realised it's not a big problem... it would be nice if it were
> possible to send those approval requests to only a single admin (e.g. the 1st
> one)

Do the other admins do anything besides post?  Because if you only made them
admins so that they can post, you don't have to do it that way.  Just list
them under "Privacy Options->Addresses of members accepted for posting to this
list without implicit approval requirement".

-- 
Paul Tomblin, not speaking for anybody.
SETI at Home:  Finally a *good* way to impress Jodie Foster
http://www.setiathome.ssl.berkeley.edu/



From CHAMPETH at e-i.com  Mon Nov 22 15:13:08 1999
From: CHAMPETH at e-i.com (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Thi=E9baut_Champenier?=)
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 15:13:08 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman customization
In-Reply-To: <19991122083629.A4703@xcski.com>; from ptomblin@xcski.com on Mon, Nov 22, 1999 at 08:36:29AM -0500
References: <19991122091403.D29190@firework.eid-bad.e-i.com> <19991122070719.A4590@xcski.com> <19991122140821.H29190@firework.eid-bad.e-i.com> <19991122083629.A4703@xcski.com>
Message-ID: <19991122151308.A22339@firework.eid-bad.e-i.com>

On Mon, Nov 22, 1999 at 08:36:29AM -0500, Paul Tomblin wrote:
> Quoting Thi?baut Champenier (CHAMPETH at e-i.com):
> > ...in fact I've realised it's not a big problem... it would be nice if it were
> > possible to send those approval requests to only a single admin (e.g. the 1st
> > one)
> 
> Do the other admins do anything besides post?  Because if you only made them
> admins so that they can post, you don't have to do it that way.  Just list
> them under "Privacy Options->Addresses of members accepted for posting to this
> list without implicit approval requirement".

yes, all admins can add/remove users but only one or two of them can post.

I think I'll make only one or two real admins and give the other "admins" the
admin password to allow them to subscribe/unsubscribe their users, like this
they won't receive the approval requests.  And I'll list the real admins under
"Addresses of members accepted for posting..." so that they are the only ones
that can post.

To prevent the "admins" from changing the list options, I'll let them access
only the membership management page... or a customized and simplified copy of
this page.



From bwarsaw at cnri.reston.va.us  Mon Nov 22 17:36:31 1999
From: bwarsaw at cnri.reston.va.us (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 11:36:31 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moving archives
References: <199911212315.PAA01981@plushie.suespammers.org>
Message-ID: <14393.28943.768992.572846@anthem.cnri.reston.va.us>

>>>>> "TG" == Tom Geller <tom at suespammers.org> writes:

    TG> O.K., I know this is an old, oft-visited question, but here
    TG> goes...

    TG> Is there a way to convert the config.db files for moving over
    TG> to a new directory structure? We moved everything from one
    TG> directory to another on the same machine, and don't want to
    TG> have to recreate users, lists, archives etc.

    TG> Better yet, can someone point me to instructions on moving
    TG> lists in toto from one directory to another?

I'm going to try to come up with a checklist, because I am also in the
process of moving a ton of lists from one machine to another (and more
importantly, from one dir to another).  The trickiest bit is that the
list archive paths are saved in the config.db file.  While this is
probably bogus in the first place, fixing this at this point is more
work than I have time for.

In the short term, I've written a simple script called bin/move_list
(you can find it in CVS).  Essentially all this does is fix the
saved archive paths for a list.  It assumes that the values in your
Defaults.py and mm_cfg.py are correct.

-Barry



From gossamer at tertius.net.au  Tue Nov 23 00:27:16 1999
From: gossamer at tertius.net.au (Bek Oberin)
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 10:27:16 +1100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] pub/priv archives
Message-ID: <19991123102716.P14294@tertius.net.au>

If I use the web interface to change the archive style from
public to private, does it automatically make the existing
archived messages private too?


bekj

-- 
: --Hacker-Neophile-Eclectic-Geek-Grrl-Queer-Disabled-Boychick--
: gossamer at tertius.net.au   http://www.tertius.net.au/~gossamer/
: Our limitations, our imperfections, our mistakes ... These do
: not reflect our inferiority, but are part of being human.
: -- Joan Stteingold Ditzion



From arshad at isb.sdnpk.org  Tue Nov 23 11:12:04 1999
From: arshad at isb.sdnpk.org (Arshad Mahmood)
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 15:12:04 +0500 (PKT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] (no subject)
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.10.9911231222340.9466-100000@ns1-isb.sdnpk.org>


Hi every one,

We have our email servers in different centers 
and the mail addresses for differnet centers are 

user at center1.organasition.org   
user at center2.organasition.org
user at center3.organasition.org

These mail servers are not online (not using smtp), these are offline
email servers using UUCP setup. 

We want to use mailman for lists administration.

Every center has its own mailing lists which have same names. For exmaple  

abc is mailing list which is present in all the centers


abc at center1.organasition.org
abc at center2.organasition.org
abc at center3.organasition.org

These mailing lists are not global only email users at these centers are
subscribed at these mailing lists.

Now the question is that

Now consider the center1

All other mailing lists at center2 and center3 are subscribed at the
corresponding list. abc maling list at center2 and center3 is subscribed
at abc mailing list abc at center1.

1) Now if the user at center2 sends any posting to abc list at his own
center that is abc at center2.organisation.org , then that
posting should be send to all subscribers of abc list at center2 locally
by the email server at center2 and that posting should be send to the
other servers at othere centers. It is important because we have off line
email set up (UUCP). In this set up mail is queued at server and after 30
minutes or a hour this will be sent to other center.

How this will be managed, is it possible with mailman, how it will be
implemented?

I think we shall run mailman at all centers. And we have mailing lists by
the same name at different centers.

How subscription will be made. If we have a central mailman server, and
suscribe the lists at all other centers at that server. Then should it be
possible to complete the restriction of point 1).


Arshad Mahmood











 
   





From ken at kyler.com  Tue Nov 23 12:14:05 1999
From: ken at kyler.com (Ken Kyler)
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 06:14:05 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bug and error
Message-ID: <001001bf35a3$da9fa460$4d0fc897@kyler.com>

I have a list that is configured like my other lists but when a subscriber
sends a message to it the list rejects the message with "Post held because:
Implicit destination ".  If I try to approve the message I get a bug report.

Any thoughts on how to fix this?

Ken



Bug in Mailman version 1.0

We're sorry, we hit a bug!
If you would like to help us identify the problem, please email a copy of
this page to the webmaster for this site with a description of what
happened. Thanks!

Traceback:


Traceback (innermost last):
  File "/admin/mailman/scripts/driver", line 112, in run_main
    main()
  File "/admin/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/admindb.py", line 112, in main
    HandleRequests(doc)
  File "/admin/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/admindb.py", line 200, in HandleRequests
    list.HandleRequest(request, v, form[comment_key].value)
  File "/admin/mailman/Mailman/ListAdmin.py", line 122, in HandleRequest
    self.HandlePostRequest(request_data[2:], value, comment)
  File "/admin/mailman/Mailman/ListAdmin.py", line 131, in HandlePostRequest
    self.Post(msg, 1)
  File "/admin/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 1351, in Post
    self.DeliverToList(msg, recipients,
ValueError: unsupported format character ''' (0x27)





----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----

Environment variables:
Variable Value
DOCUMENT_ROOT  /files/admin/www/elists.org/www
CONTENT_LENGTH  303
CONTENT_TYPE  application/x-www-form-urlencoded
PATH_TRANSLATED  /files/admin/www/elists.org/www/gcpba
REMOTE_ADDR  151.200.15.77
SERVER_PROTOCOL  HTTP/1.0
HTTP_ACCEPT_LANGUAGE  en-us
GATEWAY_INTERFACE  CGI/1.1
SERVER_PORT  80
HTTP_CONNECTION  Keep-Alive
HTTP_USER_AGENT  Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.01; Windows 98)
HTTP_ACCEPT  image/gif, image/x-xbitmap, image/jpeg, image/pjpeg,
application/vnd.ms-excel, application/msword, application/vnd.ms-powerpoint,
application/pdf, */*
REQUEST_URI  /mailman/admindb/gcpba
PATH  /usr/local/sbin:/usr/local/bin:/sbin:/usr/sbin:/bin:/usr/bin
QUERY_STRING
SCRIPT_FILENAME  /files/admin/mailman/cgi-bin/admindb
PATH_INFO  /gcpba
HTTP_HOST  elists.org
REQUEST_METHOD  POST
SERVER_SIGNATURE  Apache/1.3.6 Server at elists.org Port 80
SCRIPT_NAME  /mailman/admindb
SERVER_ADMIN  yunke at productivity.org
SERVER_SOFTWARE  Apache/1.3.6 (Unix) PHP/3.0.11
PYTHONPATH  /admin/mailman
HTTP_COOKIE
gcpba:admin="(lp0\012S'151.200.15.77'\012p1\012aI943354850\012aI943365650\01
2aI256512512\012a."
SERVER_NAME  elists.org
REMOTE_PORT  2187
HTTP_REFERER  http://elists.org/mailman/admindb/gcpba




From jbor at ggki.hu  Tue Nov 23 15:04:26 1999
From: jbor at ggki.hu (=?iso-8859-2?Q?B=F3r=20J=F3zsef?=)
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 15:04:26 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Adding earlier entries to archive
Message-ID: <383A9EEA.9060C0CD@ggki.hu>

We continued to maintain our mailing list with the Mailman manager. I
would like to add to the Mailman archive also the (saved) messages came
in while the previous manager was working. Messages were saved
individually with full header which, however, differs slightly from the
ones we see in the listname.mbox file.

I tried to thread all the former messages ordered by time and then
append the text in the listname.mbox to it, save as listname.mbox and
re-create the archives. Did not work.

Before threading I also tried minor modifications in the headers to make
the old messages look like the latest ones  - that didn't work also.

The archive re-creation process skips the old messages in listname.mbox
and anyhow it works on the number of messages came since the manager
change.

Can my attempt be carried out? Please help. Sincerely Yours, Jozsef Bor
(jbor at ggki.hu)




From richarde at eskom.co.za  Tue Nov 23 17:36:31 1999
From: richarde at eskom.co.za (Richard Ellerbrock)
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 18:36:31 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Smtp-failures fatal?
Message-ID: <s83adeb8.006@eskom.co.za>

I am running huge lists on a fairly busy machine. When spawning the list, it throws up the utilisation on the machine which causes the MTA to block connections (good for the MTA!). The following messages are logged by mailman:

Nov 23 10:45:03 1999 TrySMTPDelivery: To xxx at xxx.xxx.co.za:
Nov 23 10:45:03 1999 TrySMTPDelivery:    socket.error  / (111, 'Connection refused')  (deferred)
Nov 23 10:45:03 1999 TrySMTPDelivery:  Maybe your MTA daemon needs restarting?

Are these messages fatal? Do the messages get delivered? Does the admin of the list get ugly failure notes in his mailbox?

If they are fatal, then this is bad! I do not think mailman can always rely on the SMTP socket not being blocked.



--
Richard Ellerbrock
richarde at eskom.co.za




From curth at motek.com  Tue Nov 23 18:29:13 1999
From: curth at motek.com (Curt Hagenlocher)
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 09:29:13 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Admin Passwords?
Message-ID: <710B446D10A4D111863700805F9F0C9E18009E@motek03.motek.com>

I'm using mailman 1.1 under Linux.  In order to get rid of the daily email
containing the exception for time.str?time, I replaced Python 1.5.1 with
1.5.2.  Ever since then, I have been unable to log into any of the
administrative web pages.  I always get "Sorry, wrong password".
(These incorrect logins aren't traced... should they be.)

I don't know if the Python upgrade is related to the password problem,
but the timing sure is coincidental.  How can I change the admin
passwords to something that will work?  I have root, which I'm sure
will help ;).

--
Curt Hagenlocher
curth at motek.com



From ken at kyler.com  Tue Nov 23 18:45:08 1999
From: ken at kyler.com (Ken Kyler)
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 12:45:08 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Implicit destination
Message-ID: <000401bf35da$7b9b9640$4d0fc897@kyler.com>

I am getting all mail rejected by MailMan for "Implicit destination".  I
can't find an explanation of that rejection notice in the docs.  Can someone
help me out?

Ken Kyler




From kevin at maxson.com  Tue Nov 23 19:05:45 1999
From: kevin at maxson.com (Kevin of Thornbury)
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 13:05:45 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Admin Passwords?
References: <710B446D10A4D111863700805F9F0C9E18009E@motek03.motek.com>
Message-ID: <383AD779.4BDB890D@maxson.com>

Curt Hagenlocher wrote:
> 
> I'm using mailman 1.1 under Linux.  In order to get rid of the daily email
> containing the exception for time.str?time, I replaced Python 1.5.1 with
> 1.5.2.  Ever since then, I have been unable to log into any of the
> administrative web pages.  I always get "Sorry, wrong password".
> (These incorrect logins aren't traced... should they be.)
> 
> I don't know if the Python upgrade is related to the password problem,
> but the timing sure is coincidental.  How can I change the admin
> passwords to something that will work?  I have root, which I'm sure
> will help ;).
> 
> --
> Curt Hagenlocher
> curth at motek.com

You'll want to run ~mailman/bin/mmsitepass.

My trouble is that I can get in with the sire administrator password
ONLY.  When I create a new list, I can't use the list admin password,
and don't know how to give out passwords for list-only administrators
without giving out the entire site password (which I won't do, so it's a
maintenance headache for me personally).
_____
|_|_|  Kevin of Thornbury
| | |  (Kevin Maxson)
 \|/   kevin at maxson.com   http://www.atlantia.sca.org



From ken at kyler.com  Tue Nov 23 20:05:06 1999
From: ken at kyler.com (Ken Kyler)
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 14:05:06 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Implicit destination
In-Reply-To: <4.2.1.19991123122224.023bd720@pop.schulte.org>
Message-ID: <002101bf35e5$a7a5b120$4d0fc897@kyler.com>

> At 12:45 PM 11/23/1999 -0500, you wrote:
>  >I am getting all mail rejected by MailMan for "Implicit destination".  I
>  >can't find an explanation of that rejection notice in the docs.
>  Can someone
>  >help me out?
>
> Take a look at the privacy options, and look for:
>
> Must posts have list named in destination (to, cc) field (or be among the
> acceptable alias names, specified below)?
>
> What's probably happening is that the message is being BCCd to the list,
> and thus the list name itself is not listed in the to or cc
> field.  That's
> being caught as possible spam.
>
> --
> NAME: Christopher Schulte

Thanks for the response.  Here's the header from the "Administrative
requests " page...
----

From ken at kyler.com  Tue Nov 23 18:31:09 1999
From: ken at kyler.com (Ken Kyler)
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 12:31:09 -0500
Subject: Test
Message-ID: <000001bf35d8$88068540$4d0fc897@kyler.com>

----

as you can see, that isn't the case.  This is a test message I sent.

Ken Kyler




From christopher at schulte.org  Tue Nov 23 19:26:56 1999
From: christopher at schulte.org (Christopher Schulte)
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 12:26:56 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Implicit destination
In-Reply-To: <000401bf35da$7b9b9640$4d0fc897@kyler.com>
Message-ID: <4.2.1.19991123122224.023bd720@pop.schulte.org>

At 12:45 PM 11/23/1999 -0500, you wrote:
 >I am getting all mail rejected by MailMan for "Implicit destination".  I
 >can't find an explanation of that rejection notice in the docs.  Can someone
 >help me out?

Take a look at the privacy options, and look for:

Must posts have list named in destination (to, cc) field (or be among the 
acceptable alias names, specified below)?

What's probably happening is that the message is being BCCd to the list, 
and thus the list name itself is not listed in the to or cc field.  That's 
being caught as possible spam.

 >Ken Kyler

--
NAME: Christopher Schulte
MAIL: christopher at schulte.org
SITE: http://www.schulte.org/
FINGER(PGP): christopher at schulte.org

"I want to watch it come down."
--Trent Reznor, Nine Inch Nails HALO 8




From mastop at mast.queensu.ca  Tue Nov 23 20:42:21 1999
From: mastop at mast.queensu.ca (System Manager)
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 14:42:21 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Implicit destination
In-Reply-To: <000401bf35da$7b9b9640$4d0fc897@kyler.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.10.9911231439040.24513-100000@mast.queensu.ca>

I see this occuring with messages sent from one secretary using an
unknown e-mail client on Windows 9x. Checking the message headers
reveals that the To: field is absent. I haven't yet tracked down why
only this one individual is producing such strange mail.

I am assuming that "implicit" is indicating that only the message envelope
has the destination address.

--
Steve Butterworth <mastop at mast.queensu.ca>
Unix Systems Administrator, Department of Mathematics and Statistics,
Queen's University, Jeffery Hall 217, (613) 533-2391

On Tue, 23 Nov 1999, Ken Kyler wrote:

> I am getting all mail rejected by MailMan for "Implicit destination".  I
> can't find an explanation of that rejection notice in the docs.  Can someone
> help me out?
> 
> Ken Kyler
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users maillist  -  Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> 




From claw at cp.net  Tue Nov 23 23:16:55 1999
From: claw at cp.net (J C Lawrence)
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 14:16:55 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Implicit destination 
In-Reply-To: Message from "Ken Kyler" <ken@kyler.com> 
   of "Tue, 23 Nov 1999 12:45:08 EST." <000401bf35da$7b9b9640$4d0fc897@kyler.com> 
References: <000401bf35da$7b9b9640$4d0fc897@kyler.com> 
Message-ID: <E11qOF5-0001hZ-00@under.eng.cp.net>

On Tue, 23 Nov 1999 12:45:08 -0500 
Ken Kyler <ken at kyler.com> wrote:

> I am getting all mail rejected by MailMan for "Implicit
> destination".  I can't find an explanation of that rejection
> notice in the docs.  Can someone help me out?

Look under Proivacy Options, "Must posts have list named in
destination (to, cc) field (or be among the acceptable alias names,
specified below)?"

-- 
J C Lawrence                              Internet: claw at kanga.nu
----------(*)                            Internet: coder at kanga.nu
...Honorary Member of Clan McFud -- Teamer's Avenging Monolith...



From gossamer at tertius.net.au  Wed Nov 24 00:10:56 1999
From: gossamer at tertius.net.au (Bek Oberin)
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 1999 10:10:56 +1100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Fwd: Undelivered Mail Returned to Sender
Message-ID: <19991124101055.E14294@tertius.net.au>

Another one going through to the keeper and not being
caught by the bounce-catcher:

----- Forwarded message from Mail Delivery System <MAILER-DAEMON at connect.com.au> -----

Date: Wed, 24 Nov 1999 06:25:55 +1100 (EST)
From: MAILER-DAEMON at connect.com.au (Mail Delivery System)
Subject: Undelivered Mail Returned to Sender
To: ozme-admin at tertius.net.au

Content-Description: Notification
This is the Postfix program at host koro.off.connect.com.au.

I'm sorry to have to inform you that the message returned
below could not be delivered to one or more destinations.

For further assistance, please contact <postmaster at connect.com.au>

If you do so, please include this problem report. You can
delete your own text from the message returned below.

			The Postfix program

<pauldunstan at yarrina.connect.com.au>: unknown user: "pauldunstan"





From rupa-list at rupa.com  Wed Nov 24 01:31:10 1999
From: rupa-list at rupa.com (Rupa Schomaker (list))
Date: 23 Nov 1999 16:31:10 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: [Mailman-Developers] Feature suggestion
In-Reply-To: "Adrian Eyre"'s message of "Mon, 22 Nov 1999 13:55:01 -0000"
References: <000701bf34f1$2bba3710$3acbd9c2@peridot.optichrome.com>
Message-ID: <m31z9grar5.fsf@gw.rupa.com>

Adrian Eyre <a.eyre at optichrome.com> writes:

> > However, my idea is this.  What if there was some sort of mechanism in
> place
> > that stored the file in a different type of archive, and instead of
> mailing
> > the file, it included a link to click on to pick up the file instead.
> 
> Good idea. Could it be generalised to allow all people on the
> mailing list to specify a maximum attachment size. All attachments
> below this are attached to the e-mail, and any larger are replaced
> with links. Or maybe as a total attachment size for each e-mail,
> rather than on an attachment by attachment basis.

very nice idea!

> There is of course the issue of how long to retain the attachment on
> the server for people to pick up later. Could do it on a maximum
> meggage basis, and remove the oldest ones when space is needed for
> new ones.

If you use an archiver then you wouldn't have to age things at all.
Just point to the URL for the archived version of the email...

-- 
Rupa (rupa at rupa.com for normal email)
Please don't email duplicate replies.



From tom at suespammers.org  Wed Nov 24 02:17:26 1999
From: tom at suespammers.org (Tom Geller)
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 17:17:26 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moving archives
Message-ID: <199911240108.RAA03622@plushie.suespammers.org>

J C Lawrence wrote:

>Quite simply, just move everything under ~mailman/lists to the new
>location and everything should be fine.

Nope, there are hardcoded paths in config.db (and God knows where else).

>modulo and private hacks
>you've made to the MailMan sources.

This sentence doesn't make sense -- it's missing a verb. Huh?


---
              Tom "I am not a lawyer" Geller
    Geller Communications  *  San Francisco * tgeller.com
Other domains: suespammers.org, openppc.org, popcomputers.com




From tom at suespammers.org  Wed Nov 24 02:19:35 1999
From: tom at suespammers.org (Tom Geller)
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 17:19:35 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moving archives
Message-ID: <199911240110.RAA03652@plushie.suespammers.org>

"Barry A. Warsaw" <bwarsaw at cnri.reston.va.us> writes:

>I'm going to try to come up with a checklist

Much coolness.

>In the short term, I've written a simple script called bin/move_list
>(you can find it in CVS).  Essentially all this does is fix the
>saved archive paths for a list.  It assumes that the values in your
>Defaults.py and mm_cfg.py are correct.

Now for my second neophyte question: How do I get at the CVS archives?

Thanks,


---
              Tom "I am not a lawyer" Geller
    Geller Communications  *  San Francisco * tgeller.com
Other domains: suespammers.org, openppc.org, popcomputers.com




From mdmonges at prodigy.net.mx  Wed Nov 24 03:20:11 1999
From: mdmonges at prodigy.net.mx (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Miguel_Angel_D=EDaz?=)
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 20:20:11 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Confirm
Message-ID: <001a01bf3622$be1ca700$a695eb94@mdmonges>

I don?t understand totally your use of the word "post", but I think that it is what you required to confirm my subscription:

mdmonges at prodigy.net.mx

P.s: If posible a dialog with you in spanish, please tell; but I don?t have serious problems with english (perhaps...)
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From jfdill at jfdill.suite.net  Wed Nov 24 04:55:59 1999
From: jfdill at jfdill.suite.net (Jonathan F. Dill)
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 22:55:59 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Confirm
References: <001a01bf3622$be1ca700$a695eb94@mdmonges>
Message-ID: <383B61CF.53F0CBDB@jfdill.suite.net>

Hola Miguel,

Vaya, por favor, a la conexi?n abajo y presione el bot?n que dice,
"Translate."

http://babelfish.altavista.com/cgi-bin/translate?urltext=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.python.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fmailman-users&lp=en_es

Aqui, se encontrar? una secci?n "El suscribir a Mailman-Users" donde se
puede suscribir a la lista.  Estamos en la lista, pero no podemos
suscribirle a la lista porque es controlada por el software l?gica.

Debe ser posible hojear a trav?s de los archivos del mensaje de esta
manera, o bien usted puede pegar el texto de un cierto mensaje en el
rect?ngulo.

He utilizado el mismo software para traducir mucho de este mensaje al
Espa?ol--Claro que, la traducci?n est? comprensible mas o menos, pero no
est? perfecta.

Puedo hablar un poquito de Espa?ol porque mi esposa es una Dominicana,
pero no mucho, aunque cierta gente me digo que hablo mucho en espa?ol
cuando estoy bien borracho ;-)

D?game si usted necesita m?s ayuda.

Buena suerte!
-- 
"Jonathan F. Dill" (jfdill at jfdill.suite.net)



From wheakory at isu.edu  Tue Nov 23 23:13:47 1999
From: wheakory at isu.edu (Kory Wheatley)
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 15:13:47 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] copying mailman to another system
Message-ID: <383B1195.2D635A91@isu.edu>

Hi everyone
My question. I am copying all the mailman configuration and installation
on one RED HAT Linux 6.0  that runs mailman and works to another RED HAT
Linux 6.0 hoping this will work without installing it on the new one. I
have made the configuration changes and as  far as specifying the
different host name of the computer in the mm_cfg.py file. I created all
the necessary accounts or mailman before copying over to the new mailman
machine. Both machines are basically Identical. I can get mailman to run
everything on this new machine, (like the cgi scripts, administrative
changes to the list, archive lookup works fine), except mail don't work
it will not send any messages. Sendmail is running and is in the same
location as the other Linux box that does send the mailing list
messages.
Here is the sendmail error message I get below, any help I could get
would be great.


From MAILER-DAEMON at mm.isu.edu  Thu Nov 18 22:05:51 1999
From: MAILER-DAEMON at mm.isu.edu (Mail Delivery Subsystem)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 14:05:51 -0700
Subject: Postmaster notify: Service unavailable
Message-ID: <199911182105.OAD01582@mm.isu.edu>

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Subject: no subject
Date: no date
Size: 3541
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From claw at kanga.nu  Wed Nov 24 07:35:52 1999
From: claw at kanga.nu (claw at kanga.nu)
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 22:35:52 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moving archives 
In-Reply-To: Message from Tom Geller <tom@suespammers.org> 
   of "Tue, 23 Nov 1999 17:17:26 PST." <199911240108.RAA03622@plushie.suespammers.org> 
Message-ID: <E11qW1x-0000oQ-00@koala.kanga.nu>

On Tue, 23 Nov 1999 17:17:26 -0800 
Tom Geller <tom at suespammers.org> wrote:

> J C Lawrence wrote:
>> Quite simply, just move everything under ~mailman/lists to the
>> new location and everything should be fine.

> Nope, there are hardcoded paths in config.db (and God knows where
> else).

Ahh.  I've not had problems with that as I use an external
archiver.  Mea culpa.

>> modulo and private hacks you've made to the MailMan sources.

> This sentence doesn't make sense -- it's missing a verb. Huh?

s/and/any/.

-- 
J C Lawrence                                 Home: claw at kanga.nu
----------(*)                              Other: coder at kanga.nu
--=| A man is as sane as he is dangerous to his environment |=--



From yvain at gmp.usyd.edu.au  Sat Nov 20 09:05:59 1999
From: yvain at gmp.usyd.edu.au (yvain)
Date: Sat, 20 Nov 1999 19:05:59 +1100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] "error decoding authorisation cookie" + upgrade question
Message-ID: <38365667.71A07202@gmp.usyd.edu.au>

Hi All,

    We are experiencing problems with some of our mailing lists.
Specifically, list administrators keep getting an "error decoding
authorisation cookie" error when they try and make changes on the admin
site for their list (or when they are trying to access the second and
onward chunks of users on the membership management page).

    I am running a vanilla version of mailman 1.0 (upgraded from
mailman-1.0b11), and we are using python 1.5.1 on a redhat linux 6.1
machine. What is frustrating is that i rarely see the same problem when
I access the admin pages from a netscape browser that is on MacOS or
Unix, but I can see them when using netscape from Win9x/NT.

    I have downloaded mailman 1.1 and was going to upgrade the system to
that, in the hope that the abovementioned bug would go away. The small
problem that occurred when I did this was that all of the list
administration passwords (and the site password) suddenly stopped
working. While I can simply create a new sitepass with mmsitepasswd,
that doesn't solve the problem of the list admin passwords on all of the
lists.

    please help!

peace
chris




From luca.ghedini at mail.ing.unibo.it  Wed Nov 24 10:57:15 1999
From: luca.ghedini at mail.ing.unibo.it (Luca ghedini)
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 1999 10:57:15 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] IP filtering
Message-ID: <383BB67B.1BC58FF@mail.ing.unibo.it>

Is it possible limit the post to a list on a IP or domain based
criteria?


tnk 

ghedo



From ryant at thawte.com  Wed Nov 24 12:36:20 1999
From: ryant at thawte.com (Ryan Tracey)
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 1999 11:36:20 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] MailMan and Exim (local delivery problem)
Message-ID: <383BCDB4.E746A22A@thawte.com>

Hi

I have MailMan 1.1-1 and Exim 3.03-4 installed. Exim is fully installed
and configured. I though MailMan was too...

I have created a list and have subscribed to it. The user gets a
confirmation email and responds.  However, from taking a look at the
Exim paniclog, it appears that for some reason the mail is not delivered
properly. See the /var/log/exim/paniclog excerpt.
...
1999-11-24 13:08:16 11mEMl-0007BO-00 Neither the system_aliases director
nor the address_pipe transport set a uid for local delivery of
|/var/lib/mailman/mail/wrapper mailcmd develtest
...

The /etc/alias file contains the correct MailMan aliases and I've run
the checkperms script. I believe I have the correct users and groups set
up. Is there anything else I can check?

Thanks and regards,
Ryan
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From hniksic at iskon.hr  Wed Nov 24 14:35:44 1999
From: hniksic at iskon.hr (Hrvoje Niksic)
Date: 24 Nov 1999 14:35:44 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Migration from majordomo
Message-ID: <9t94sec6mhb.fsf@mraz.iskon.hr>

I've taken a look at Mailman, and decided I like it.  It's nice, it's
cool, it's Python.  Besides, it provides the sorely-needed features
that Majordomo lacks, like web administration, bounce detection, and
spam protection.

Here at work, we run 30+ lists using majordomo and I'm considering a
transition to Mailman.  I would like to hear about experiences with
migration from Majordomo to Mailman.  Is there an automation mechanism
to convert configuration files?  What does one do with archives and
digests?  What about subscriber lists?  Are there things one should
watch out for?



From ptomblin at xcski.com  Wed Nov 24 15:27:11 1999
From: ptomblin at xcski.com (Paul Tomblin)
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 1999 09:27:11 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] "error decoding authorisation cookie" + upgrade question
In-Reply-To: <38365667.71A07202@gmp.usyd.edu.au>; from yvain on Sat, Nov 20, 1999 at 07:05:59PM +1100
References: <38365667.71A07202@gmp.usyd.edu.au>
Message-ID: <19991124092711.B24032@xcski.com>

Quoting yvain (yvain at gmp.usyd.edu.au):
> Specifically, list administrators keep getting an "error decoding
> authorisation cookie" error when they try and make changes on the admin

Check to make sure those list administrators haven't turned off cookies in
their web browsers.  Mailman requires them.  The fact that administration
works for you and/or other browsers seems to indicate that this is what
they've done.

-- 
Paul Tomblin, not speaking for anybody.
SETI at Home:  Finally a *good* way to impress Jodie Foster
http://www.setiathome.ssl.berkeley.edu/



From Nigel.Metheringham at vdata.co.uk  Wed Nov 24 17:12:36 1999
From: Nigel.Metheringham at vdata.co.uk (Nigel Metheringham)
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 1999 16:12:36 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] MailMan and Exim (local delivery problem) 
In-Reply-To: Message from Ryan Tracey <ryant@thawte.com> 
   of "Wed, 24 Nov 1999 11:36:20 GMT." <383BCDB4.E746A22A@thawte.com> 
Message-ID: <E11qf25-0000oR-00@rioja.localnet>

ryant at thawte.com said:
> The /etc/alias file contains the correct MailMan aliases and I've run
> the checkperms script. I believe I have the correct users and groups
> set up. Is there anything else I can check? 

Its an exim error before you ever get to mailman.
Exim needs to know what uid/gid to run a pipe as.  This can be derived 
(ie a pipe in a .forward takes the uid/gid from the user who owns (in 
the exim sense) the .forward).  For system aliases there is not a 
sensible default (root is not a sensible default).  So you need to 
assign a user/group to the system aliases director.

Alternatively, look at
	http://www.exim.org/howto/mailman.html

for an alternative approach

	Nigel.
-- 
[ - Opinions expressed are personal and may not be shared by VData - ]
[ Nigel Metheringham                  Nigel.Metheringham at VData.co.uk ]
[ Phone: +44 1423 850000                         Fax +44 1423 858866 ]





From hniksic at iskon.hr  Wed Nov 24 18:12:37 1999
From: hniksic at iskon.hr (Hrvoje Niksic)
Date: 24 Nov 1999 18:12:37 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Migration from Majordomo
Message-ID: <9t9d7szoltm.fsf@mraz.iskon.hr>

[ Sorry if you see this twice.  I've sent it once but haven't received
  it back. ]

I've taken a look at Mailman, and decided I like it.  It's nice, it's
cool, it's Python.  Besides, it provides the sorely-needed features
that Majordomo lacks, like web administration, bounce detection, and
spam protection.

Here at work, we run 30+ lists using majordomo and I'm considering a
transition to Mailman.  I would like to hear about experiences with
migration from Majordomo to Mailman.  Is there an automation mechanism
to convert configuration files?  What does one do with archives and
digests?  What about subscriber lists?  Are there things one should
watch out for?



From wheakory at isu.edu  Wed Nov 24 18:46:39 1999
From: wheakory at isu.edu (Kory Wheatley)
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 1999 10:46:39 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] moving list
Message-ID: <383C247F.7031942E@isu.edu>

Would it be possibly to copy  mailman created mailing lists, to another
machine running mailman and have those lists work over there with just a
copy. These machines have same Red Hat version,  and are identical in
hardware and software.

--
Kory Wheatley              Office Phone 236-3874
Computing & Communication
Academic Computing Analyst sr.

Everything you do must point to him.





From ptomblin at xcski.com  Wed Nov 24 19:04:46 1999
From: ptomblin at xcski.com (Paul Tomblin)
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 1999 13:04:46 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Migration from Majordomo
In-Reply-To: <9t9d7szoltm.fsf@mraz.iskon.hr>; from Hrvoje Niksic on Wed, Nov 24, 1999 at 06:12:37PM +0100
References: <9t9d7szoltm.fsf@mraz.iskon.hr>
Message-ID: <19991124130446.B29301@xcski.com>

Quoting Hrvoje Niksic (hniksic at iskon.hr):
> Here at work, we run 30+ lists using majordomo and I'm considering a
> transition to Mailman.  I would like to hear about experiences with
> migration from Majordomo to Mailman.  Is there an automation mechanism
> to convert configuration files?  What does one do with archives and
> digests?  What about subscriber lists?  Are there things one should
> watch out for?

I just transitioned 15 mailing lists from majordomo to mailman, and it was a
major pain.  One of the biggest flaws in mailman, in my opinion, is that none
of the config files are in plain text, so you can't whip up your own
conversion scripts to convert majordomo to mailman, and you can't build a
bunch of nearly identical mailing lists automatically and then make small
changes interactively.  With majordomo, most of my lists I copied the same
list.config file and then did some global search and replace.  To do the same
in mailman, I'd have to learn python and learn more about the internals than I
plan to right away.

My checklist for converting a majordomo list to mailman.
- create the mailman list.
- use the web interface to set up the mailman list.
- change the alises to point to the new list.  Mine are all subscriber-post
  only, so any stuff that comes in in during the next few steps will be held
  until I manually approve them.
- convert all the majordomo archives using ~/bin/arch.  I used a lot of
    for i in ~majordomo/lists/<foo>.archive/* ; do
        echo "converting $i"
        bin/arch <foo> $i
    done
- make sure the list is set to "don't email me notification of subscribers".
- cut and paste the appropriate subscription list into the appropriate box on
  membership management.
- set it back to "email me notification of subscribers".
- if any posts came in while you were doing this, approve them.
- send out a message telling everybody the details of the new list manager and
  where to find the web config pages.
- watch the maillogs while the test message is going out to make sure things
  look right.

-- 
Paul Tomblin, not speaking for anybody.
SETI at Home:  Finally a *good* way to impress Jodie Foster
http://www.setiathome.ssl.berkeley.edu/



From rniess at netserver3.otr.usm.edu  Wed Nov 24 19:26:35 1999
From: rniess at netserver3.otr.usm.edu (Rick Niess)
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 1999 12:26:35 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Migration from Majordomo
In-Reply-To: <9t9d7szoltm.fsf@mraz.iskon.hr>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.10.9911241131000.15778-100000@netserver3.otr.usm.edu>

On 24 Nov 1999, Hrvoje Niksic wrote:
> I've taken a look at Mailman, and decided I like it.  It's nice, it's
> cool, it's Python.  Besides, it provides the sorely-needed features
> that Majordomo lacks, like web administration, bounce detection, and
> spam protection.

     <nod> Same reasons I'm switching. ;-)

> Here at work, we run 30+ lists using majordomo and I'm considering a
> transition to Mailman.  I would like to hear about experiences with
> migration from Majordomo to Mailman.  

     It's not entirely automated, but it's doable and fairly simple.  
Read on...

> Is there an automation mechanism to convert configuration files?

     No, not yet.  List configs still have to be ported manually at the
moment.  It's a pain, but if you get several people (with a clue) doing it
all at once, it goes quickly.  I know that several people (myself
included) are interested in seeing a utility to do this, so it's probably
not far off. (Barry sounds like he wants one for the next release.)

> What about subscriber lists?

     Easy.  There's a utility called "add_members" that can take a list of
e-mail addresses as input.  So you can use your existing majordomo
subscriber lists as input for it.  Be warned, however, that you'll need to
strip out any comments before doing so.  It needs bare e-mail addresses
without comments, quotes, parentheses, etc. (if you had address stripping
turned on in your Majordomo lists, this should already be done for you.
Otherwise, you'll have to do it manually.)

> What does one do with archives and digests?  

     Archives can be converted fairly easilly.  There's a utility called
"arch" that's used for rebuilding the web archives.  It takes standard
mbox format as input, so you can pipe the majordomo archives straight into
it. (you might need to concatenate them together first) For instance (as
yourself and ignoring permissions):

$ cat ~majordomo/lists/listname.archive/* >~mailman/archives/private/listname.mbox/listname.mbox
$ ~mailman/bin/arch ~mailman/archives/private/listname.mbox/listname.mbox listname 

(arch doesn't appear to handle input via stdin yet)

     Digests don't require a completely separate list under Mailman, but
they do require a separate list of subscribers initially.  If you had a
separate list for digested members under Majordomo, subscribe them all to
the new list (using the add_members utility mentioned above) and specify
the digested lists as the digested members file.

> Are there things one should watch out for?

     Yeah, just a few.

- CPU useage is a bit higher than Majordomo, though throughput is
generally better. (in my experience) If you encounter periods of heavy
mailing, the host system will bog down slightly.  You can always
distribute the load by specifying a different SMTP host than localhost.

- If you plan on letting Majordomo and Mailman coexist for a while so you
can make the transition one list at a time with little or no downtime
(like I did), you'll need to rename Mailman's wrapper and its alias in
/etc/smrsh (assuming you're using Sendmail) to something like
mailman-wrapper to avoid stomping on Majordomo's wrapper.

- Mailman is still under development, so a lot can change between
releases.  Most of the updates are handled automatically.  But some things
(ex, the customized HTML for list users) may need to be updated by hand.
Just beware if you're running it on a production system.

     Also, has anyone gotten in touch with the owners of Integral.org to
see what difficulties they've had?  I know they ported a fairly large
listbase from Majordomo to Mailman...

     Anyway, just my $.02.  If I've made an error, please correct me and
Cc the list.  Thanx...

						~ Rick ~
--
.oooO "Man with closed Oooo.    Rick C. Niess
(   )   mouth gathers  (   )    University of Southern Miss.
 \ (      no foot!"     ) /     resnet at usm.edu
--\ )------------------(_/-------------------------------






From lindsey at ncsa.uiuc.edu  Wed Nov 24 22:23:35 1999
From: lindsey at ncsa.uiuc.edu (Christopher Lindsey)
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 1999 15:23:35 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] IP filtering
In-Reply-To: <383BB67B.1BC58FF@mail.ing.unibo.it> from "Luca ghedini" at Nov 24, 99 10:57:15 am
Message-ID: <199911242123.PAA13877@ferret.ncsa.uiuc.edu>

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From bwarsaw at cnri.reston.va.us  Thu Nov 25 07:01:55 1999
From: bwarsaw at cnri.reston.va.us (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Thu, 25 Nov 1999 01:01:55 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] test #2
Message-ID: <14396.53459.87247.787490@anthem.cnri.reston.va.us>

this is a test, please ignore



From ajc at bing.wattle.id.au  Thu Nov 25 08:22:03 1999
From: ajc at bing.wattle.id.au (Andrew J Cosgriff)
Date: 25 Nov 1999 18:22:03 +1100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] small feature request
Message-ID: <1yaeo35944.fsf@earthling.aia.aig.com.au>

Apologies if it's already been asked for, but is there any chance
that, when mailman says "message exceeded 40k limit" (or whatever), it
can tell us how big the message is ?

Ta heeps,
 Cos
-- 
Andrew J Cosgriff <ajc at bing.wattle.id.au> exterminate all rational thought !
                     sand homosapien warhol jealousy lucid



From rsr at inorganic.org  Thu Nov 25 09:33:56 1999
From: rsr at inorganic.org (Roy Rapoport)
Date: Thu, 25 Nov 1999 00:33:56 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Oooh, This Is Bad
In-Reply-To: <1yaeo35944.fsf@earthling.aia.aig.com.au>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.21.9911250031050.20892-100000@fold.inorganic.org>

This is not, thankfully, a request for help.  More of a commiseration.

I just converted approximately 400 mailing lists from /etc/aliases
:include: entries (eg 'list:   :include:/home/groups/list') to mailman
lists.  Thankfully, I did this in a scripted way, so it was a minimal
hassle.

Eventually, each of these lists (internal to my company) will be owned by
the person actually owning the purpose of the list.  For now, our helpdesk
people, known as 'helpers@<company>', were set up as the owners for every
single list.

'helpers' is a mailman list.

'helpers' is the OWNER of the mailman list 'helpers'.

Which, I think, has something to do with why my server went to its knees
about 30 minutes ago trying to run more than 600 mailman-related processes,
all of whom seemed related to trying to email 'helpers'.

Oops.

-roy




From hniksic at iskon.hr  Thu Nov 25 10:13:09 1999
From: hniksic at iskon.hr (Hrvoje Niksic)
Date: 25 Nov 1999 10:13:09 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Migration from Majordomo
In-Reply-To: Rick Niess's message of "Wed, 24 Nov 1999 12:26:35 -0600 (CST)"
References: <Pine.LNX.4.10.9911241131000.15778-100000@netserver3.otr.usm.edu>
Message-ID: <9t9vh6rlysa.fsf@mraz.iskon.hr>

Rick Niess <rniess at netserver3.otr.usm.edu> writes:
[...]

Thanks for your thoughtful response (and my gratitude extends to Paul
Tomblin).

>From what I hear, Mailman doesn't really appear completely mature at
this point.  It appears as if I should wait for a few months before
installing it to a production machine.  (But please Barry correct me
if you think I'm wrong).  Particularly, my setup would depend on
stable config and list files, and smooth upgrades.

Config files not being plain text could be a problem.  Pickles and
marshals are nice, but you can't manipulate them with `sed'.  If there
were at least a published Python interface to accessing, creating and
changing all these things, I could whip up a Python script that went
over lists and imported them to Mailman.

Speed also sounds like a potential problem.  Python is a great
language, but the current implementation is horribly slow, even
compared to other interpreters.  I have fears that other solutions,
like Listar, will prove more feasible as the number of lists increases
to 50 or 100+.

I'd love to see documents comparing e.g. Mailman and Listar.

> - If you plan on letting Majordomo and Mailman coexist for a while
> so you can make the transition one list at a time with little or no
> downtime (like I did), you'll need to rename Mailman's wrapper and
> its alias in /etc/smrsh (assuming you're using Sendmail) to
> something like mailman-wrapper to avoid stomping on Majordomo's
> wrapper.

Okay, I don't understand this one.  My /etc/aliases looks like this
(mylist is a test list):

## mylist mailing list
## created: 24-Nov-1999 mailman
mylist:                  "|/home/mailman/mail/wrapper post mylist"
mylist-admin:            "|/home/mailman/mail/wrapper mailowner mylist"
mylist-request:          "|/home/mailman/mail/wrapper mailcmd mylist"
owner-mylist:            mylist-admin
mylist-owner:            mylist-admin

OTOH, the majordomo stuff typically looks like this:

#embryo lista

embryo:                 "|/usr/local/lib/majordomo/wrapper resend -l embryo embryo-list"
embryo-list:            :include:/home/majordom/lists/embryo,"|/usr/local/lib/majordomo/wrapper archive2.pl -a  -m -f /home/majordom/archive/embryo/embryo.archive"
owner-embryo:           puma at iskon.hr
embryo-owner:           puma at iskon.hr
embryo-request:         "|/usr/local/lib/majordomo/wrapper majordomo -l embryo"
embryo-approval:        puma at iskon.hr

So all wrappers are referenced with an absolute path, and I don't see
a problem.

> Also, has anyone gotten in touch with the owners of Integral.org to
> see what difficulties they've had?

Um, do they have a home page?  www.integral.org does not appear
useful.



From richarde at eskom.co.za  Thu Nov 25 11:28:28 1999
From: richarde at eskom.co.za (Richard Ellerbrock)
Date: Thu, 25 Nov 1999 12:28:28 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] "error decoding authorisation cookie" +
	upgrade question
Message-ID: <s83d2b73.006@eskom.co.za>

>Quoting yvain (yvain at gmp.usyd.edu.au): 
>> Specifically, list administrators keep getting an "error decoding
>> authorisation cookie" error when they try and make changes on the admin
>
>Check to make sure those list administrators haven't turned off cookies in
>their web browsers.  Mailman requires them.  The fact that administration
>works for you and/or other browsers seems to indicate that this is what
>they've done.

Nope. I have the problem too (using Netscape Communicator 4.7). Cookies are on here. I have not heard of any problems from my IE users though.

--
Richard Ellerbrock
richarde at eskom.co.za




From barry at deafdigest.org  Thu Nov 25 13:28:57 1999
From: barry at deafdigest.org (barry at deafdigest.org)
Date: Thu, 25 Nov 1999 07:28:57 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] how to deal with bounces?
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.991125072037.11533B-100000@shell.clark.net>

Hello all of you out there:

I am a new mailman user; I own and operate a 25,000 subscriber on-line
newsletter that is distributed weekly. I normally expect 200-300 bounces
per newsletter distribution.

I have been careful in clicking on bounce options on the web site yet the
handling of bounces is not working the way I wanted it to be.

What is happening is that:
1. 200-300 bounces are being dumped back to my private e-mail address
2. I look at the bounces log on the web site and find a small number of
bounces being added to it weekly
3. I have set the option at "remove and notify me" after the 6th bounce,
but it doesn't seem to be happening.

I did not set up the mailman - my webmaster did. I am not a techie so 
please go easy on suggestions that you may send me.

thank you very much

Barry Strassler
barry at deafdigest.org
http://www.deafdigest.org




From fil at oleane.brainstorm.fr  Thu Nov 25 18:48:12 1999
From: fil at oleane.brainstorm.fr (Fil)
Date: Thu, 25 Nov 1999 18:48:12 +0100 (MET)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] list-on subscribe address ?
Message-ID: <19991125174812.C8085D900F@oleane.brainstorm.fr>

Hi there,

do you know what's the easiest way to install subscribe/unsubscribe addresseslike






From edmondja at mcmail.cis.McMaster.CA  Thu Nov 25 19:37:45 1999
From: edmondja at mcmail.cis.McMaster.CA (J.A. Edmonds)
Date: Thu, 25 Nov 1999 13:37:45 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] too many messages
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.96.991125133604.2752A-100000@mcmail.cis.McMaster.CA>

Hello,
I subscribed to mailman a while ago, and I think that I forgot to
stipulate that I wanted my messages screened.  Everytime I go into my
email, there are literally over 50-60 new messages everyday.  Please
modify my account so that I only get critical information.  
Thank you,
Jennifer.




From adrian.joseph at guardian.co.uk  Thu Nov 25 20:35:18 1999
From: adrian.joseph at guardian.co.uk (Adrian Joseph)
Date: Thu, 25 Nov 1999 19:35:18 -0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman fails (SIGTERM) when dealing with very large lists
Message-ID: <010e01bf377c$34e8af00$09d5060a@3100.guardian.co.uk>

Mailman v1.0
Python 1.5.1
Linux 2.2.13

We have a very large mailing list, about 260000 members which we're trying
to move to mailman. Alas a number of functions fail with a mailman process
(python) dying. I've looked and it appears a SIGTERM is generated somewhere
causing the process to die. This occurs when trying to go into the
Membership Management screen and when trying to post to the list. I wonder
if this could be a timeout problem or some other limitation? I appreciate
that this is an unusually large list, but splitting it would cause us all
sorts of fun and games. Any ideas about this? BTW I did trace the python
process which starts when an attempt is made to enter the Membership
Management screen and apart from the signal nothing else looked out of
place. I plan on trying upgrading to python 1.5.2 and mailman 1.1, but any
suggestions or an explanation would be very welcome. Thanks

Adrian




From tom at suespammers.org  Thu Nov 25 21:16:33 1999
From: tom at suespammers.org (Tom Geller)
Date: Thu, 25 Nov 1999 12:16:33 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moving Lists (private)
Message-ID: <199911252007.MAA31067@plushie.suespammers.org>

Barry Warsaw wrote:

>Here's my recipe for moving a mailing list.  Note that this uses the
>very latest CVS snapshot of Mailman

Yes, but I still need to know how to get at your CVS repository, or none 
of this is of any use. Thanks,


---
              Tom "I am not a lawyer" Geller
    Geller Communications  *  San Francisco * tgeller.com
Other domains: suespammers.org, openppc.org, popcomputers.com




From pfaff at edge.cis.mcmaster.ca  Thu Nov 25 23:04:11 1999
From: pfaff at edge.cis.mcmaster.ca (Todd Pfaff)
Date: Thu, 25 Nov 1999 17:04:11 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] too many messages
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SOL.3.96.991125133604.2752A-100000@mcmail.cis.McMaster.CA>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.10.9911251659320.18943-100000@edge.cis.mcmaster.ca>

On Thu, 25 Nov 1999, J.A. Edmonds wrote:

> Hello,
> I subscribed to mailman a while ago, and I think that I forgot to
> stipulate that I wanted my messages screened.  Everytime I go into my
> email, there are literally over 50-60 new messages everyday.  Please
> modify my account so that I only get critical information.  
> Thank you,
> Jennifer.

Jennifer,

What are you talking about?  Who do you think is going to screen your
messages and only send you critical information?  If you don't want to
read the messages then why are you subscribed to the list?

--
Todd Pfaff                         \  Email: pfaff at mcmaster.ca
Computing and Information Services  \ Voice: (905) 525-9140 x22920
ABB 132                              \  FAX: (905) 528-3773
McMaster University                   \
Hamilton, Ontario, Canada  L8S 4M1     \





From rniess at netserver3.otr.usm.edu  Fri Nov 26 00:22:42 1999
From: rniess at netserver3.otr.usm.edu (Rick Niess)
Date: Thu, 25 Nov 1999 17:22:42 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Migration from Majordomo
In-Reply-To: <9t9vh6rlysa.fsf@mraz.iskon.hr>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.10.9911251653220.24729-100000@netserver3.otr.usm.edu>

On 25 Nov 1999, Hrvoje Niksic wrote:
> > - If you plan on letting Majordomo and Mailman coexist for a while
> > so you can make the transition one list at a time with little or no
> > downtime (like I did), you'll need to rename Mailman's wrapper and
> > its alias in /etc/smrsh (assuming you're using Sendmail) to
> > something like mailman-wrapper to avoid stomping on Majordomo's
> > wrapper.
> Okay, I don't understand this one.  My /etc/aliases looks like this
> (mylist is a test list):
<snip>
> So all wrappers are referenced with an absolute path, and I don't see
> a problem.

     It's primarily a problem with Sendmail.  Recent versions of Sendmail
don't allow an external program (pike procmail or wrapper) to be called
from /etc/aliases or from .forward files unless there is a symbolic link
to that program in /etc/smrsh (or whever the smrsh directory is on your
system).  I think "smrsh" is short of "SendMail Restricted SHell". Anyway,
both mailman and majordomo need to run wrappers, and they're both named
the same ("wrapper").  So you can't link both of them simultaneously from
/etc/smrsh unless you rename one.

> > Also, has anyone gotten in touch with the owners of Integral.org to
> > see what difficulties they've had?
> Um, do they have a home page?  www.integral.org does not appear
> useful.

     <giggle> It's useful in it's own way. ;-) Their lists are housed at
<http://lists.integral.org/mailman/>. (All are private, atm.)

						~ Rick ~
--
.oooO "Man with closed Oooo.    Rick C. Niess
(   )   mouth gathers  (   )    University of Southern Miss.
 \ (      no foot!"     ) /     resnet at usm.edu
--\ )------------------(_/-------------------------------





From claw at kanga.nu  Fri Nov 26 02:05:22 1999
From: claw at kanga.nu (claw at kanga.nu)
Date: Thu, 25 Nov 1999 17:05:22 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Migration from Majordomo 
In-Reply-To: Message from Hrvoje Niksic <hniksic@iskon.hr> 
   of "25 Nov 1999 10:13:09 +0100." <9t9vh6rlysa.fsf@mraz.iskon.hr> 
Message-ID: <E11r9pC-0004lB-00@koala.kanga.nu>

On 25 Nov 1999 10:13:09 +0100 
Hrvoje Niksic <hniksic at iskon.hr> wrote:

> Speed also sounds like a potential problem.  Python is a great
> language, but the current implementation is horribly slow, even
> compared to other interpreters.  

You may wish to re-examine this factoid.  Ther performance curves of
Perl, Pythin, and Tcl are fairly comparable as long as you are
looking across the boards.  Each excells in some camps and suffers
in others.  Each allows slow, less than woderful code to be written
that executes unimpressively.  Happily each also allows good code to
be written that performs admirably for a tokenised/bytcoded
language.

-- 
J C Lawrence                                 Home: claw at kanga.nu
----------(*)                              Other: coder at kanga.nu
--=| A man is as sane as he is dangerous to his environment |=--



From bwarsaw at cnri.reston.va.us  Fri Nov 26 03:28:35 1999
From: bwarsaw at cnri.reston.va.us (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Thu, 25 Nov 1999 21:28:35 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moving Lists (private)
References: <199911252007.MAA31067@plushie.suespammers.org>
Message-ID: <14397.61523.474173.285790@anthem.cnri.reston.va.us>

>>>>> "TG" == Tom Geller <tom at suespammers.org> writes:

    TG> Yes, but I still need to know how to get at your CVS
    TG> repository, or none of this is of any use. Thanks,

http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-checkins



From bwarsaw at cnri.reston.va.us  Fri Nov 26 05:05:39 1999
From: bwarsaw at cnri.reston.va.us (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Thu, 25 Nov 1999 23:05:39 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Migration from Majordomo
References: <Pine.LNX.4.10.9911241131000.15778-100000@netserver3.otr.usm.edu>
	<9t9vh6rlysa.fsf@mraz.iskon.hr>
Message-ID: <14398.1811.860336.907796@anthem.cnri.reston.va.us>

>>>>> "Hrvoje" == Hrvoje Niksic <hniksic at iskon.hr> writes:

    Hrvoje> It appears as if I should wait for a few months before
    Hrvoje> installing it to a production machine.  (But please Barry
    Hrvoje> correct me if you think I'm wrong).  Particularly, my
    Hrvoje> setup would depend on stable config and list files, and
    Hrvoje> smooth upgrades.

Let me say this: I'm definitely using Mailman in a production
environment -- every list on python.org is running off of it.  But if
I were to be brutally honest, I'd say the 1.1 codebase still has
performance problems, which I now think are at least partly caused by
the number of Python processes that get created for each message
delivery.  I've been doing a lot of work on all this stuff, and slowly
migrating our lists to the new codebase.  I'm cautiously
optimistic.

    Hrvoje> Config files not being plain text could be a problem.

I actually have a neat idea of how to handle this.  If I get a chance
to code it up this weekend, I'll post a message about it (but probably
just to mailman-developers).  If it works out, it'll let us do a bunch
of really cool stuff in this regard, including giving you plain text
config files you can edit.

    Hrvoje> Speed also sounds like a potential problem.  Python is a
    Hrvoje> great language, but the current implementation is horribly
    Hrvoje> slow, even compared to other interpreters.  I have fears
    Hrvoje> that other solutions, like Listar, will prove more
    Hrvoje> feasible as the number of lists increases to 50 or 100+.

I haven't had time to look at Listar in much detail, but I'm not
concerned about Python's performance in all this, except in one
regard: the interpreter's start up time.  But the new codebase creates
only one process per message so this should improve considerably
(getting the direct SMTP delivery module ported may change this, but I
will definitely attempt to keep this under control).

I agree with JC here, Python's performance /in general/ is no better
or worse than any other scripting language, and Python's other
advantages IMO far outweigh any of its problems.  I still believe that
with sensible algorithms, your MTA is going to be a much greater
factor when considering performance (I'm alrady seeing awesome
performance from Postfix compared to Sendmail).

-Barry



From bwarsaw at cnri.reston.va.us  Fri Nov 26 07:27:00 1999
From: bwarsaw at cnri.reston.va.us (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Fri, 26 Nov 1999 01:27:00 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Configuring a list from a description file
Message-ID: <14398.10292.573165.887238@anthem.cnri.reston.va.us>


A bunch of people have asked for the ability to configure a list based
on a human readable configuration file, a la Majordomo.  I had a flash
of inspiration on a way to accomplish this fairly easily.  Applying
the old 80/20 rule here, I think this will give us most of what we
want fairly easily.

I've written a new script called bin/config_list which can either dump
a list's config attributes, or modify them based on an input file.
When dumping, config_list writes the attribute names, values, and
descriptions to a file (or stdout) as Python code.  You can then edit
this file to your heart's content, and use config_list's input mode to
change the attributes of any mailing list.  You don't need to change
them all; just comment out the attributes you don't want to affect.
Simple, direct, neat!

I've just checked the file into CVS, but I'll also attach it to this
message.  It's only been minimally test, and there are a few rough
edged (e.g. some descriptions are HTML, and they look a little ugly
formatted as Python comments).  Feedback is welcome.  See the
docstring for subtleties.

Will someone with more recent Majordomo experience please write a
script that converts from its config file format to a format suitable
for config_list?  Fame awaits you. :)

Time for sleep.
Enjoy,
-Barry

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From hniksic at iskon.hr  Fri Nov 26 11:34:06 1999
From: hniksic at iskon.hr (Hrvoje Niksic)
Date: 26 Nov 1999 11:34:06 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Migration from Majordomo
In-Reply-To: claw@kanga.nu's message of "Thu, 25 Nov 1999 17:05:22 -0800"
References: <E11r9pC-0004lB-00@koala.kanga.nu>
Message-ID: <9t9vh6pbkyp.fsf@mraz.iskon.hr>

claw at kanga.nu writes:

> On 25 Nov 1999 10:13:09 +0100 
> Hrvoje Niksic <hniksic at iskon.hr> wrote:
> 
> > Speed also sounds like a potential problem.  Python is a great
> > language, but the current implementation is horribly slow, even
> > compared to other interpreters.  
> 
> You may wish to re-examine this factoid.

Sorry; I really didn't mean to sound so harsh.

I like Python _a lot_; however several times I got burnt with the
inefficiency of its current implementation, esp. compared to other
advanced interpreters like CLISP or Perl.  If you are interested, we
can discuss my findings in private email, as it's clearly off-topic on
this list.

When I employ a Python script with large datasets, I feel I have to
wait for my computer rather than the other way around.  This makes me
wonder about using Python for "heavy" stuff like large mailing lists.



From sw_tools at beatles.cselt.it  Fri Nov 26 10:38:19 1999
From: sw_tools at beatles.cselt.it (Marco Mesturino)
Date: Fri, 26 Nov 1999 10:38:19 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] On differents "wrappers" [WAS: Re: Migration from Majordomo]
In-Reply-To: <19991125174753.E54321CD1A@dinsdale.python.org>
Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.19991126101606.00a5b210@xnole.cselt.it>

At 12:47 PM 11/25/1999 -0500, Hrvoje Niksic wrote:
>From: Hrvoje Niksic <hniksic at iskon.hr>
>Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Migration from Majordomo
>Date: Thu, 25 Nov 1999 10:13:09 +0100
>(...)
> > downtime (like I did), you'll need to rename Mailman's wrapper and
> > its alias in /etc/smrsh (assuming you're using Sendmail) to
> > something like mailman-wrapper to avoid stomping on Majordomo's
> > wrapper.
>
>Okay, I don't understand this one.  My /etc/aliases looks like this
>(mylist is a test list):
>mylist:                  "|/home/mailman/mail/wrapper post mylist"
>(...)
>OTOH, the majordomo stuff typically looks like this:
>embryo:                 "|/usr/local/lib/majordomo/wrapper resend -l
>
>So all wrappers are referenced with an absolute path, and I don't see
>a problem. (...)

The gentleperson You quote above uses 'sendmail restricted shell' (smrsh) 
as its "program" delivery agent in sendmail.cf, and smrsh strips away the 
leading path after the "|" commands in your /etc/aliases to go look for the 
base name into a special directory (e.g. /etc/smrsh). If the program is not 
there, smrsh does not run it. That means you need to put two "wrapper" 
links in the same directory, each one pointing to a different wrapper in 
two different dirs. Mybe it works: change a wrapper name in the 
/etc/aliases and make two different names for the links in the smrsh 
directory; no warranty implied :-)

This is true on a linux Mandrake 6.0 box we have. Other versions of 
sendmail may differ. Of course, if you use sh insted of smrsh the above 
does not apply.
Look in sendmail.cf for `Mprog,' directives.

Regards,
         Marco

----- Marco Mesturino <sw_tools at beatles.cselt.it>



From andreas at mtg.co.at  Fri Nov 26 13:46:03 1999
From: andreas at mtg.co.at (Andreas Kostyrka)
Date: Fri, 26 Nov 1999 13:46:03 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Migration from Majordomo
In-Reply-To: <9t9vh6pbkyp.fsf@mraz.iskon.hr>; from hniksic@iskon.hr on Fri, Nov 26, 1999 at 11:34:06AM +0100
References: <E11r9pC-0004lB-00@koala.kanga.nu> <9t9vh6pbkyp.fsf@mraz.iskon.hr>
Message-ID: <19991126134603.E25074@mtg.co.at>

On Fri, Nov 26, 1999 at 11:34:06AM +0100, Hrvoje Niksic wrote:
> claw at kanga.nu writes:
> 
> > On 25 Nov 1999 10:13:09 +0100 
> > Hrvoje Niksic <hniksic at iskon.hr> wrote:
> > 
> > > Speed also sounds like a potential problem.  Python is a great
> > > language, but the current implementation is horribly slow, even
> > > compared to other interpreters.  
> > 
> > You may wish to re-examine this factoid.
> 
> Sorry; I really didn't mean to sound so harsh.
> 
> I like Python _a lot_; however several times I got burnt with the
> inefficiency of its current implementation, esp. compared to other
> advanced interpreters like CLISP or Perl.  If you are interested, we

Well, this is simply not true anymore. Python 1.3 was slow. 1.4 was
better. 1.5 is microtuned to a level where Guido refuses patches to
microtune it further. Having deployed vertical applications with
customers since the 1.3 days, I can just confirm that since 1.5 the
performance of Python is not a real problem anymore.

Another thing is, that one must know the strengths and weaknesses of
the language. Python still doesn't like method/function invokations,
and adding to a huge string directly is rather inefficient, as it is
true for almost any language with readonly strings. And yes, this
weaknesses one usually learns the hard way.

> can discuss my findings in private email, as it's clearly off-topic on
> this list.
> 
> When I employ a Python script with large datasets, I feel I have to
> wait for my computer rather than the other way around.  This makes me
Well, when you employ any program with a large dataset, you're waiting.

My experience shows, that it's always the algorithm and really seldom
the language that make solutions slow. (Well, certain operations are
slow in interpreted languages, and if you need just these in a inner
loop, ...)

Actually, for the context of Mailman, Python is as such probably
faster than perl, as it has a faster startup time then perl.  That
makes perl almost unusuable for small tasks, or for example simple CGI
scripts. (You need mod_perl much more for example than mod_py ;) )

> wonder about using Python for "heavy" stuff like large mailing lists.

Well, I've done a text retrieval system quick&dirty in python. I've
got down to three performance "problems":

-) HTML parsing: This is slow because I just stuck the standard python
   HTML formatter and process the result as ascii text. Deriving my
   own SGML parser that just parses the text and ignores the tags
   would be probably somehow faster. But for a quick and dirty
   solution I've deemed.
-) During the database merge phase, gdbm and/or the disc are the
   bottleneck. So python can drive my SCSI RAID array to full usage ;)
-) update/del operations are a bit slow, but that is a design failure
   in my database scheme.

So basically, I've done a full text database, and python stood up to
indexing 75000 files, containing about 1.8GB of text.

The above mentioned performance bottlenecks could be probably solved
by better programming, and not using gdbm. (The update capability of
the database was important to me.)

Andreas
-- 
Andreas Kostyrka                     | andreas at mtg.co.at
phone: +43/1/7070750                 | phone: +43/676/4091256   
MTG Handelsges.m.b.H.                | fax:   +43/1/7065299
Raiffeisenstr. 16/9                  | 2320 Zwoelfaxing AUSTRIA        




From hniksic at iskon.hr  Fri Nov 26 14:02:34 1999
From: hniksic at iskon.hr (Hrvoje Niksic)
Date: 26 Nov 1999 14:02:34 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Migration from Majordomo
In-Reply-To: Andreas Kostyrka's message of "Fri, 26 Nov 1999 13:46:03 +0100"
References: <E11r9pC-0004lB-00@koala.kanga.nu> <9t9vh6pbkyp.fsf@mraz.iskon.hr> <19991126134603.E25074@mtg.co.at>
Message-ID: <9t9hfi99zit.fsf@mraz.iskon.hr>

Andreas Kostyrka <andreas at mtg.co.at> writes:

> > I like Python _a lot_; however several times I got burnt with the
> > inefficiency of its current implementation, esp. compared to other
> > advanced interpreters like CLISP or Perl.  If you are interested,
> > we
> 
> Well, this is simply not true anymore. Python 1.3 was slow. 1.4 was
> better. 1.5 is microtuned to a level where Guido refuses patches to
> microtune it further.

I don't know about Python 1.3 and 1.4, but I had performance problems
with 1.5.2, compared to other similar interpreters.  If you wish, I'll
write to you in email.



From arshad at isb.sdnpk.org  Fri Nov 26 14:11:20 1999
From: arshad at isb.sdnpk.org (Arshad Mahmood)
Date: Fri, 26 Nov 1999 18:11:20 +0500 (PKT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Looping problem
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.10.9911261728260.5196-100000@ns1-isb.sdnpk.org>

Hi,

My domain is "abc.org". We have two mail servers in two centers. And the
email address format of users at the two centers is

user at center1.abc.org
user at center2.abc.org

We are using Mailman at the both centers.

Now consider the mailing list xyz.

The mailing list "xyz" is present at the both centers.

Now the problem is that we want that if a user at center1 which is
subscribed at "xyz" list sends a mail to list "xyz at center1.abc.org" then
this mail should go to to all users that are subscribed to list xyz at
center2 that is that sholud also go to "xyz at center1.abc.org". And for
operation list xyz at center2 "xyz at center1.abc.org" should be subscribed
to xyz list at center1.

Similarly if a user at center2 which is subscribed at "xyz" list sends a 
mail to list "xyz at center2.abc.org" then this mail should go to to all 
users that are subscribed to list xyz at center1 that is that sholud also
go to "xyz at center1.abc.org". And for operation list xyz at center1
"xyz at center1.abc.org" should be subscribed to xyz list at center2. 

Now the condition above described is a loop. As the list at center1 is
subscribed center2 and list at center2 is subscribed at center1, this is
loop. Mail for list at center1 will also go to the all users of that list
at center2 and when the mail will reach center2 when it will be delivered
it will also be delivered to same list at center1 as that list of center1
is subscribed to the same list at certer2. This loop will continue.

I want to explain that why this condition is necessary. I want that when a
user at center1 sends a mail to list at that center it should go to all
users or that center locally through that mail server at that center. And
one copy should also go to the same list at other center center2. And same
condition I want at other center center2.  

If we use a only mail server at only one center say center1 then the
problem is that then if the user at center2 sends mail to any list mail
will first come at mail server at center2 then it will go to mail server
at center1 and then back it will go to mail server at center2 and it will 
be delivered to all users of center2 that are subscribed to this list . I
want that mail to users of center2 that are subscribed to list should go
directly with using the mail server at center2 and after that mail should
go to users of list at center1 using mail server at center1.

Is there any solution to this problem of looping?       
Can Mailman handle situations like this?
Any comments and suggestions are welcome. 

Arshad Mahmood.




From andreas at mtg.co.at  Fri Nov 26 18:03:53 1999
From: andreas at mtg.co.at (Andreas Kostyrka)
Date: Fri, 26 Nov 1999 18:03:53 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Looping problem
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.10.9911261728260.5196-100000@ns1-isb.sdnpk.org>; from arshad@isb.sdnpk.org on Fri, Nov 26, 1999 at 06:11:20PM +0500
References: <Pine.LNX.4.10.9911261728260.5196-100000@ns1-isb.sdnpk.org>
Message-ID: <19991126180353.G25074@mtg.co.at>

On Fri, Nov 26, 1999 at 06:11:20PM +0500, Arshad Mahmood wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> My domain is "abc.org". We have two mail servers in two centers. And the
> email address format of users at the two centers is
> 
> user at center1.abc.org
> user at center2.abc.org


Well, you could get away with the following setup:
Instead of xyz, you name your mailing lists xyzlocal.

Now, at both centers, install an an alias that expands
xyz to xyzlocal and xyzlocal at center2 or xyzlocal at center1.

Actually, you could probably get away by creating xyz lists, and some creative
aliasing too.

Andreas
-- 
Andreas Kostyrka                     | andreas at mtg.co.at
phone: +43/1/7070750                 | phone: +43/676/4091256   
MTG Handelsges.m.b.H.                | fax:   +43/1/7065299
Raiffeisenstr. 16/9                  | 2320 Zwoelfaxing AUSTRIA        




From mfidelman at ntcorp.com  Fri Nov 26 19:14:55 1999
From: mfidelman at ntcorp.com (Miles Fidelman)
Date: Fri, 26 Nov 1999 13:14:55 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] newbie setup problem (--with-cgi-gid not working)
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.05.9911261247200.1484-100000@ntcorp.dn.net>

Hi Folks,

I'm just trying to get mailman set up, and I seem to have run into a GID
problem.

Solaris 2.6 (Sparc)
Python 1.5.1
Mailman 1.1
Apache 1.3.3

1. I ran configure as follows:

./configure --with-cgi-gid='neigh artsadmin nobody'

and they showed up in config.cache ok (I think), as:

ac_cv_group_cgi=${ac_cv_group_cgi='neigh artsadmin nobody'}

then made and installed Mailman.

2. I added a scriptalias to my httpd.conf file as follows

ScriptAlias     /mailman/       /home/mailman/cgi-bin/

3. I created a test list and got email ok (using shell commands).

4. But... when I tried to access the url
http://ntcorp.dn.net/mailman/admin/test (as indicated in the email)
I got the error (in my browser):
Mailman CGI error!!!

The expected gid of the Mailman CGI wrapper did not match the gid as set
by the Web server.

The most likely cause is that Mailman was configured and installed
incorrectly. Please read the INSTALL instructions again, paying close
attention to the --with-cgi-gid configure option. This entry is being
stored in your syslog: 

Failure to exec script. WANTED gid 65540, GOT gid 60001.  (Reconfigure to
take 60001?)

65540 is the gid for the mailman group, whereas 60001 is the gid for
"nobody" the group the server is runnin as, AND one of the GIDs I
originally configured in --- so... what did I do wrong?


**************************************************************************
Network Technology Corporation	 	    PO Box 600618
Miles R. Fidelman, President 		    Newtonville, MA 02460-0006
mfidelman at ntcorp.com			    617-558-3698
http://www.ntcorp.com		            fax: 617-630-8946			
**************************************************************************




From mfidelman at ntcorp.com  Fri Nov 26 19:16:11 1999
From: mfidelman at ntcorp.com (Miles Fidelman)
Date: Fri, 26 Nov 1999 13:16:11 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] newbie question re. virtual hosts
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.05.9911261314580.1484-100000@ntcorp.dn.net>

Can anybody provide any guidance using Mailman with virtual hosts under
Apache?

Notably:

- is there any automatic support for configuring a list within a virtual
domain (e.g. the way that newlist prints out the aliases to paste into
sendmail.cf)?

- it doesn't look like Mailman support per-domain config files, or am I
missing something?

- any tricks for making Mailman work within the suexec security model?

Thanks much,

Miles Fidelman

**************************************************************************
Network Technology Corporation	 	    PO Box 600618
Miles R. Fidelman, President 		    Newtonville, MA 02460-0006
mfidelman at ntcorp.com			    617-558-3698
http://www.ntcorp.com		            fax: 617-630-8946			
**************************************************************************




From ed.merrifield at earther.org  Fri Nov 26 23:47:57 1999
From: ed.merrifield at earther.org (Ed Merrifield)
Date: Fri, 26 Nov 1999 17:47:57 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] FQDN Problems
Message-ID: <19991126174757.C4737@earther.org>

Below is the conformation of subscription message my test has generated.
Every place it reads atlas.earther.org, I want it to read earther.org.
How do I do it?

I've read the text files, the last few months of the archives, and found
all occurrences of "atlas" in the directories and removed them with no
changes to the generated email.

Also the welcome message tells people to send their posts to
test at atlas.earther.org.  I want that to read test at earther.org.

SO, how do I remove all "foos" in foo.bar.com??

Ed  <Ed.Merrifield at earther.org>
--
"Good pitching will always stop good hitting, and vice versa."
   -- Casey Stengel


----- Forwarded message from test-request at atlas.earther.org -----

From: test-request at atlas.earther.org
Subject: Test -- confirmation of subscription -- request 197623
To: ed.merrifield at earther.org

Test -- confirmation of subscription -- request 197623

We have received a request from 206.161.77.75 for subscription of your
email address, <ed.merrifield at earther.org>, to the
test at atlas.earther.org mailing list.  To confirm the request, please
send a message to test-request at atlas.earther.org, and either:

- maintain the subject line as is (the reply's additional "Re:" is
ok),

- or include the following line - and only the following line - in the
message body: 

confirm 197623

(Simply sending a 'reply' to this message should work from most email
interfaces, since that usually leaves the subject line in the right
form.)

If you do not wish to subscribe to this list, please simply disregard
this message.  Send questions to test-admin at atlas.earther.org.

----- End forwarded message -----




From bwarsaw at cnri.reston.va.us  Sat Nov 27 00:27:31 1999
From: bwarsaw at cnri.reston.va.us (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Fri, 26 Nov 1999 18:27:31 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Re: [Mailman-Users] optimizing mail delivery
References: <14387.22646.76313.150613@anthem.cnri.reston.va.us>
	<Pine.LNX.3.96.991118083727.15316B-100000@delta.integral.org>
Message-ID: <14399.5987.612724.582341@anthem.cnri.reston.va.us>

    Dragon> 	In my own highly-hacked version of mailman that I use,
    Dragon> I do this.  Mailman simply drops outgoing messages into
    Dragon> the queue directory. A background daemon de-queues the
    Dragon> messages and pumps them to the local MTA via SMTP. A
    Dragon> cronjob checks the daemon periodically, and starts it if
    Dragon> is falls over. All very simple, and has worked very
    Dragon> reliably for me for several months.

This would make a nice addition to Mailman, and probably wouldn't be
hard to port to the new message pipeline model.  How'd you like to
look into that?

-Barry



From pjh at mccc.edu  Sat Nov 27 04:47:27 1999
From: pjh at mccc.edu (Pete Holsberg)
Date: Fri, 26 Nov 1999 22:47:27 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Reinstalling mailman
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.10.9911262245350.11803-100000@tecoma.mccc.edu>

We just upgraded from an old Debian Linux to RH 6.0x. The
mailman user exists.

I ran configure and I get:

checking whether #! works in shell scripts... (cached) yes
checking for mailman UID...   File "conftest.py", line 1
    import pwd, string
    ^
SyntaxError: invalid syntax
cat: conftest.out: No such file or directory

configure: error: 
***** No "mailman" user found!
***** Your system must have a "mailman" user defined (usually
***** in your /etc/passwd file).  Please see the INSTALL file
***** file details.

What does that signify?

Thanks,
Pete




From dragondm at integral.org  Sat Nov 27 11:36:55 1999
From: dragondm at integral.org (The Dragon De Monsyne)
Date: Sat, 27 Nov 1999 04:36:55 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: optimizing mail delivery
In-Reply-To: <14399.5987.612724.582341@anthem.cnri.reston.va.us>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.991127042426.30741A-100000@delta.integral.org>

On Fri, 26 Nov 1999, Barry A. Warsaw wrote:


>     Dragon> 	In my own highly-hacked version of mailman that I use,
>     Dragon> I do this.  Mailman simply drops outgoing messages into
>     Dragon> the queue directory. A background daemon de-queues the
>     Dragon> messages and pumps them to the local MTA via SMTP. A
>     Dragon> cronjob checks the daemon periodically, and starts it if
>     Dragon> is falls over. All very simple, and has worked very
>     Dragon> reliably for me for several months.
> 
> This would make a nice addition to Mailman, and probably wouldn't be
> hard to port to the new message pipeline model.  How'd you like to
> look into that?

	Sure! I'd be happy to. Probably not today, as I have a rather bad
case of the flu, and right at the moment sitting upright for any length
of time is rewarded with nausea and a blinding headache :P,  but mebbe on
sunday I'll be up to it & I'll pull the CVS and see what I can do. It
should  be fairly simple to port. 

PS: good job for doing this cleanup, this is something that's been needed
for awhile.

	-The Dragon De Monsyne




From travisll at comfedcu.org  Sat Nov 27 19:23:13 1999
From: travisll at comfedcu.org (Travis Llewellyn)
Date: Sat, 27 Nov 1999 10:23:13 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] QMAIL VPOPMAIL and MAILMAN
Message-ID: <LOBBKJEBBFAIDPLFCFHAMECECCAA.travisll@comfedcu.org>

Hello eveyone,

I have a problem and I am not sure where to go to find out the answer so I
will ask here and the oher lists :).

Here is what I have QMAIL is running in /var/qmail and vpopmail is running
in /home/vpopmail and mailman(listmanager) is running in
/domains/domain.com/mailman.

In /home/vpopmail/domains/domain.com I have a .qmail-support that has
|preline /domains/domain.com/mailman/mail/wrapper post support

What happens is everything looks like it delivers OK but I don't get any
error messages or and mail being distributed.

I guess the question I have is where can I see if wrapper post support is
even being run. I know that if I change the .qmail-support to somthing else
like |preline /domains/darstep.com/mailman/mail/wrapper post support I get
an e-mail back saying that command was not found so i guess it is running.

I think it could be a permissions problem. But I can't find any error logs
saying such!

Thanks for any help.

If more info is needed I will supply it just let me know!

Travis



From vic at vgg.sci.uma.es  Sat Nov 27 18:09:47 1999
From: vic at vgg.sci.uma.es (Victoriano Giralt)
Date: Sat, 27 Nov 1999 18:09:47 +0100 (MET)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Looping problem
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.10.9911261728260.5196-100000@ns1-isb.sdnpk.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.04.9911271803210.9037-100000@vgg.sci.uma.es>

On Fri, 26 Nov 1999, Arshad Mahmood wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> My domain is "abc.org". We have two mail servers in two centers. And the
> email address format of users at the two centers is
> 
> user at center1.abc.org
> user at center2.abc.org
> 
> We are using Mailman at the both centers.
> 
> Now consider the mailing list xyz.
> 
> The mailing list "xyz" is present at the both centers.
> 
[...]
> 
If I understand you right, you need that messages are delivered to both
lists at both centers, with independence of the originating user's
location. My approach would be to define the following aliases:

center1:
xyz:	xyz at center2.abc.org, "|/usr/users/mailman/mail/wrapper post xyz"

center2:
xyz:	xyz at center1.abc.org, "|/usr/users/mailman/mail/wrapper post xyz"

I think that will get the dessired functionality, 

--
Victoriano Giralt
Systems Programmer
Central Computing Facility
University of M?laga
SPAIN




From vic at vgg.sci.uma.es  Sat Nov 27 18:15:59 1999
From: vic at vgg.sci.uma.es (Victoriano Giralt)
Date: Sat, 27 Nov 1999 18:15:59 +0100 (MET)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] FQDN Problems
In-Reply-To: <19991126174757.C4737@earther.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.04.9911271812350.9037-100000@vgg.sci.uma.es>

On Fri, 26 Nov 1999, Ed Merrifield wrote:

> Below is the conformation of subscription message my test has generated.
> Every place it reads atlas.earther.org, I want it to read earther.org.
> How do I do it?
This one is easy :)
Simply go to the list's admin page
(http://atlas.earther.org/mailman/admin/test) and, at the bottom of that
page you find two fields, one for hte host name the list prefers (it will
have atlas.earther.org, change it to earther.org), and another one for the
base URL (same philosphy).

Enjoy, 
--
Victoriano Giralt
Systems Programmer
Central Computing Facility
University of M?laga
SPAIN





From pjh at mccc.edu  Sat Nov 27 19:23:07 1999
From: pjh at mccc.edu (Pete Holsberg)
Date: Sat, 27 Nov 1999 13:23:07 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Reinstalling mailman
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.10.9911262245350.11803-100000@tecoma.mccc.edu>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.10.9911271322240.22780-100000@tecoma.mccc.edu>

Never mind. I decide to upgrade to 1.1, and tha tmesage
doesn't occur.

Thanks,
Pete


On Fri, 26 Nov 1999, Pete Holsberg wrote:

> We just upgraded from an old Debian Linux to RH 6.0x. The
> mailman user exists.
> 
> I ran configure and I get:
> 
> checking whether #! works in shell scripts... (cached) yes
> checking for mailman UID...   File "conftest.py", line 1
>     import pwd, string
>     ^
> SyntaxError: invalid syntax
> cat: conftest.out: No such file or directory
> 
> configure: error: 
> ***** No "mailman" user found!
> ***** Your system must have a "mailman" user defined (usually
> ***** in your /etc/passwd file).  Please see the INSTALL file
> ***** file details.
> 
> What does that signify?




From ptomblin at xcski.com  Sat Nov 27 21:04:58 1999
From: ptomblin at xcski.com (Paul Tomblin)
Date: Sat, 27 Nov 1999 15:04:58 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Seeing bounces in postfix
Message-ID: <19991127150457.B1563@xcski.com>

I just switched to using postfix instead of sendmail, and now I'm seeing the
bounces instead of having mailman handle them.  Here is a typical bounce.

----- Forwarded message from Mail Delivery System <MAILER-DAEMON at xcski.com> -----
Date: Sat, 27 Nov 1999 14:58:39 -0500 (EST)
From: MAILER-DAEMON at xcski.com (Mail Delivery System)
Subject: Undelivered Mail Returned to Sender
To: upstateav-admin at xcski.com

Content-Description: Notification
This is the Postfix program at host piper.xcski.com.

I'm sorry to have to inform you that the message returned
below could not be delivered to one or more destinations.

For further assistance, please contact <postmaster at xcski.com>

If you do so, please include this problem report. You can
delete your own text from the message returned below.

			The Postfix program

<whitford at relex.com>: host mail.relex.com[204.255.177.250] said: 550 unknown
    user <whitford at relex.com>


Content-Description: Undelivered Message
To: upstateav at xcski.com
Date: Sat, 27 Nov 1999 14:58:19 -0500 (EST)
From: ptomblin at xcski.com (Paul Tomblin)
Subject: [UpstateAv] testing

Still having trouble with my new mail software.  Hang on


_______________________________________________
UpstateAv mailing list
UpstateAv at xcski.com
http://xcski.com/mailman/listinfo/upstateav


----- End forwarded message -----

-- 
Paul Tomblin, not speaking for anybody.
SETI at Home:  Finally a *good* way to impress Jodie Foster
http://www.setiathome.ssl.berkeley.edu/



From lists at A-Z-Internet.com  Sun Nov 28 01:00:07 1999
From: lists at A-Z-Internet.com (Philippe Landau)
Date: Sun, 28 Nov 1999 02:00:07 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailing list services
Message-ID: <v04220816b466202f874d@[194.230.193.223]>

i am looking for mailing list services without advertising.
it should be reliable, fast, and not too expensive.
do you know of such a good service ?
at the moment i need 5 lists, the biggest has 300 subscribers
and 10 contributions a day.

kind regards     philippe, A-Z-Internet.com



From boogiell at ionet.net  Sun Nov 28 04:05:54 1999
From: boogiell at ionet.net (Tricia Llewellyn)
Date: Sat, 27 Nov 1999 19:05:54 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Errors Where are they
Message-ID: <LOBBKJEBBFAIDPLFCFHAGEDDCCAA.boogiell@ionet.net>

I have a problem and I can't seem to find out where mailman logs errors. I
know that wrapper is getting atleast ran but that is all I can tell. Help
how can I tell what happens after wrapper gets ran. It almost looks like it
is just dying after a post. No post get through.

Travis




From paul at fpen.org  Sun Nov 28 03:52:02 1999
From: paul at fpen.org (Paul Kleeberg)
Date: Sat, 27 Nov 1999 18:52:02 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman vs. ListProcessor
Message-ID: <v04220801b46647bdbfbf@[63.209.84.29]>

I have been managing a handful of lists on ListProcessor 8.2 for a 
number of years.  I just learned of Mailman.  Anyone care to comment 
on how the two products compare?  Is there a comparison evaluation on 
the net somewhere?  Listproc works well but it has evolved 
*exceptionally* slowly and is rather expensive.  The web interface is 
marginal.

Paul



From coder at kanga.nu  Sun Nov 28 04:52:06 1999
From: coder at kanga.nu (coder at kanga.nu)
Date: Sat, 27 Nov 1999 19:52:06 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailing list services 
In-Reply-To: Message from Philippe Landau <lists@A-Z-Internet.com> 
   of "Sun, 28 Nov 1999 02:00:07 +0200." <v04220816b466202f874d@[194.230.193.223]> 
Message-ID: <E11rvNe-0001Hc-00@koala.kanga.nu>

On Sun, 28 Nov 1999 02:00:07 +0200 
Philippe Landau <lists at A-Z-Internet.com> wrote:

> i am looking for mailing list services without advertising.  it
> should be reliable, fast, and not too expensive.  do you know of
> such a good service ?  at the moment i need 5 lists, the biggest
> has 300 subscribers and 10 contributions a day.

What are the list topics?

-- 
J C Lawrence                                 Home: claw at kanga.nu
----------(*)                              Other: coder at kanga.nu
--=| A man is as sane as he is dangerous to his environment |=--



From lists at A-Z-Internet.com  Sun Nov 28 04:13:18 1999
From: lists at A-Z-Internet.com (Philippe Landau)
Date: Sun, 28 Nov 1999 05:13:18 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailing list services
In-Reply-To: <E11rvNe-0001Hc-00@koala.kanga.nu>
References: <E11rvNe-0001Hc-00@koala.kanga.nu>
Message-ID: <v04220800b4664a99ba50@[194.230.204.23]>

>> i am looking for mailing list services without advertising.  it
>> should be reliable, fast, and not too expensive.  do you know of
>> such a good service ?  at the moment i need 5 lists, the biggest
>> has 300 subscribers and 10 contributions a day.
>
>What are the list topics?

mac computing: user group (general help, music, web, etc).

kind regards     philippe, A-Z-Internet.com



From bwarsaw at cnri.reston.va.us  Sun Nov 28 08:58:04 1999
From: bwarsaw at cnri.reston.va.us (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Sun, 28 Nov 1999 02:58:04 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Seeing bounces in postfix
References: <19991127150457.B1563@xcski.com>
Message-ID: <14400.57484.538322.603064@anthem.cnri.reston.va.us>

>>>>> "PT" == Paul Tomblin <ptomblin at xcski.com> writes:

    PT> I just switched to using postfix instead of sendmail, and now
    PT> I'm seeing the bounces instead of having mailman handle them.
    PT> Here is a typical bounce.

Yup, Mailman doesn't handle Postfix bounced.  This is my next area of
attack (after getting direct smtp delivery going again).

-Barry



From jam at jamux.com  Sun Nov 28 15:11:57 1999
From: jam at jamux.com (John A. Martin)
Date: Sun, 28 Nov 1999 09:11:57 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Seeing bounces in postfix 
In-Reply-To: <14400.57484.538322.603064@anthem.cnri.reston.va.us> 
	("Barry A. Warsaw"; Sun, 28 Nov 1999 02:58:04 -0500)
Message-ID: <19991128141159.33C04481C@athene.jamux.com>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

>>>>> "Barry" == Barry A Warsaw
>>>>> "Re: [Mailman-Users] Seeing bounces in postfix"
>>>>>  Sun, 28 Nov 1999 02:58:04 -0500 (EST)

>>>>> "PT" == Paul Tomblin <ptomblin at xcski.com> writes:

    PT> I just switched to using postfix instead of sendmail, and now
    PT> I'm seeing the bounces instead of having mailman handle them.
    PT> Here is a typical bounce.

    Barry> Yup, Mailman doesn't handle Postfix bounced.  This is my
    Barry> next area of attack (after getting direct smtp delivery
    Barry> going again).

Is the following also something to consider?

'man aliases(5)' (Postfix) gives

- -------------- cut here ---->8 ---< head

[[ ... ]]

       In addition, when an alias exists for owner-name, delivery
       diagnostics  are  directed  to that address, instead of to
       the originator.  This is typically used to direct delivery
       errors  to the owner of a mailing list, who is in a better
       position to deal with mailing list delivery problems  than
       the originator of the undelivered mail.

[[ ... ]]

CONFIGURATION PARAMETERS

[[ ... ]]

       owner_request_special
              Give special treatment to owner-xxx and xxx-request
              addresses.

[[ ... ]]

- ---- 8<------- cut here ----------> tail

The default configuration gives 'owner_request_special = yes'.

Does mailman make the most of this postfix feature?

	jam

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.0.0 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: By Mailcrypt 3.5.4 and Gnu Privacy Guard <http://www.gnupg.org/>

iD8DBQE4QTgeUEvv1b/iXy8RAgS1AJ0SCo0Jjw/m1jfcjtpEQ6jsKgshuQCfcexY
Mm+GdcBfdgIxR0sxEbfA3iM=
=BW8H
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----



From jam at jamux.com  Sun Nov 28 16:04:51 1999
From: jam at jamux.com (John A. Martin)
Date: Sun, 28 Nov 1999 10:04:51 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Seeing bounces in postfix 
In-Reply-To: <14400.57484.538322.603064@anthem.cnri.reston.va.us> 
	("Barry A. Warsaw"; Sun, 28 Nov 1999 02:58:04 -0500)
Message-ID: <19991128150454.2C33E481C@athene.jamux.com>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

>>>>> "Barry" == Barry A Warsaw
>>>>> "Re: [Mailman-Users] Seeing bounces in postfix"
>>>>>  Sun, 28 Nov 1999 02:58:04 -0500 (EST)

    Barry> ... (after getting direct smtp delivery going again).

Would it be appropriate to give the host's FQDN for the HELO
parameter?  The following postfix UCE restrictions don't seem to like
mailman-1.1's 'localhost'.

#   reject_non_fqdn_hostname: reject HELO hostname that is not in FQDN form
#   reject_unknown_hostname: reject HELO hostname without DNS A or MX record.

	jam

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.0.0 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: By Mailcrypt 3.5.4 and Gnu Privacy Guard <http://www.gnupg.org/>

iD8DBQE4QUSKUEvv1b/iXy8RAsJyAJ4+jwTUkFsWVpv6MPFRxlC/SaZuFwCfeezf
wjGdD0WyhmG4mYAIqLiDOlc=
=nUaK
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----



From gorgo at caesar.elte.hu  Sun Nov 28 20:05:23 1999
From: gorgo at caesar.elte.hu (Gergely Madarasz)
Date: Sun, 28 Nov 1999 20:05:23 +0100 (MET)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Seeing bounces in postfix
In-Reply-To: <14400.57484.538322.603064@anthem.cnri.reston.va.us>
Message-ID: <Pine.A32.3.96.991128200448.45511Y-100000@caesar.power.elte.hu>

On Sun, 28 Nov 1999, Barry A. Warsaw wrote:

> 
> >>>>> "PT" == Paul Tomblin <ptomblin at xcski.com> writes:
> 
>     PT> I just switched to using postfix instead of sendmail, and now
>     PT> I'm seeing the bounces instead of having mailman handle them.
>     PT> Here is a typical bounce.
> 
> Yup, Mailman doesn't handle Postfix bounced.  This is my next area of
> attack (after getting direct smtp delivery going again).

Could you please add exim and qmail bounce detections too ? :)

-- 
Madarasz Gergely           gorgo at caesar.elte.hu         gorgo at linux.rulez.org
          Egy pingvinre gyakorlatilag lehetetlen haragosan nezni.
                    HuLUG: http://mlf.linux.rulez.org/




From claw at kanga.nu  Sun Nov 28 20:55:15 1999
From: claw at kanga.nu (claw at kanga.nu)
Date: Sun, 28 Nov 1999 11:55:15 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Seeing bounces in postfix 
In-Reply-To: Message from "John A. Martin" <jam@jamux.com> 
   of "Sun, 28 Nov 1999 10:04:51 EST." <19991128150454.2C33E481C@athene.jamux.com> 
Message-ID: <E11sAPj-0003dD-00@koala.kanga.nu>

On Sun, 28 Nov 1999 10:04:51 -0500 
John A Martin <jam at jamux.com> wrote:

>>>>>> "Barry" == Barry A Warsaw "Re: [Mailman-Users] Seeing bounces
>>>>>> in postfix" Sun, 28 Nov 1999 02:58:04 -0500 (EST)

Barry> ... (after getting direct smtp delivery going again).

> Would it be appropriate to give the host's FQDN for the HELO
> parameter?  The following postfix UCE restrictions don't seem to
> like mailman-1.1's 'localhost'.

Localhost is technically correct.  MailMan could use
localhost.localdomain instead except that the use of localdoman is
not as standardised and widely implemented as localhost.

-- 
J C Lawrence                                 Home: claw at kanga.nu
----------(*)                              Other: coder at kanga.nu
--=| A man is as sane as he is dangerous to his environment |=--



From pjh at mccc.edu  Mon Nov 29 02:20:49 1999
From: pjh at mccc.edu (Pete Holsberg)
Date: Sun, 28 Nov 1999 20:20:49 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bug in Mailman version 1.1
Message-ID: <3841D4F1.31B262B6@mccc.edu>

Could someone help me with this, please?

Thanks,
Pete


Bug in Mailman version 1.1

We're sorry, we hit a bug!

If you would like to help us identify the problem, please email a copy
of this page to the webmaster for
this site with a description of what happened. Thanks! 

Traceback:


Traceback (innermost last):
  File "/home/mailman/scripts/driver", line 85, in run_main
    logger = StampedLogger('error',
  File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Logging/StampedLogger.py", line 48, in
__init__
    Logger.__init__(self, category, nofail, immediate)
  File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Logging/Logger.py", line 40, in __init__
    self.__get_f()
  File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Logging/Logger.py", line 63, in __get_f
    reraise()
  File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Logging/Logger.py", line 55, in __get_f
    f = self.__fp = open(self.__filename, 'a+')
IOError: (13, 'Permission denied')





Environment variables:

 Variable
                           Value
 DOCUMENT_ROOT 
                           /home/httpd/html 
 HTTP_ACCEPT_ENCODING 
                           gzip 
 SERVER_PORT 
                           80 
 PATH_TRANSLATED 
                           /home/httpd/html/et124 
 GATEWAY_INTERFACE 
                           CGI/1.1 
 HTTP_ACCEPT_LANGUAGE 
                           en 
 REMOTE_ADDR 
                           198.133.170.209 
 SERVER_NAME 
                           saturn.mccc.edu 
 HTTP_CONNECTION 
                           Keep-Alive 
 HTTP_USER_AGENT 
                           Mozilla/4.7 [en] (Win95; I) 
 HTTP_ACCEPT_CHARSET 
                           iso-8859-1,*,utf-8 
 HTTP_ACCEPT 
                           image/gif, image/x-xbitmap, image/jpeg,
image/pjpeg, image/png, */* 
 REQUEST_URI 
                           /mailman/listinfo/et124 
 PATH 
                           /sbin:/usr/sbin:/bin:/usr/bin:/usr/X11R6/bin 
 QUERY_STRING 
 SCRIPT_FILENAME 
                           /home/mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo 
 PATH_INFO 
                           /et124 
 HTTP_HOST 
                           saturn.mccc.edu 
 REQUEST_METHOD 
                           GET 
 SERVER_SIGNATURE 
 SCRIPT_NAME 
                           /mailman/listinfo 
 SERVER_ADMIN 
                           pjh at mccc.edu 
 SERVER_SOFTWARE 
                           Apache/1.3.6 (Unix) (Red Hat/Linux) 
 PYTHONPATH 
                           /home/mailman 
 SERVER_PROTOCOL 
                           HTTP/1.0 
 REMOTE_PORT 
                           2011
-------------- next part --------------
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From jam at jamux.com  Mon Nov 29 02:26:00 1999
From: jam at jamux.com (John A. Martin)
Date: Sun, 28 Nov 1999 20:26:00 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Cookies
Message-ID: <19991129012604.C87B6481C@athene.jamux.com>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

What can be done to make mailman comply with a privacy policy that
states "we don't do cookies"?

	jam

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Comment: By Mailcrypt 3.5.4 and Gnu Privacy Guard <http://www.gnupg.org/>

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=5qMV
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----



From jfesler at gigo.com  Mon Nov 29 02:43:29 1999
From: jfesler at gigo.com (jfesler at gigo.com)
Date: Sun, 28 Nov 1999 17:43:29 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Cookies
In-Reply-To: <19991129012604.C87B6481C@athene.jamux.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.9911281743160.36918-100000@heaven.gigo.com>

> What can be done to make mailman comply with a privacy policy that
> states "we don't do cookies"?

Don't administer the lists?




From jfesler at gigo.com  Mon Nov 29 02:44:42 1999
From: jfesler at gigo.com (jfesler at gigo.com)
Date: Sun, 28 Nov 1999 17:44:42 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Cookies
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.9911281743160.36918-100000@heaven.gigo.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.9911281743480.36918-100000@heaven.gigo.com>

> > What can be done to make mailman comply with a privacy policy that
> > states "we don't do cookies"?
> 
> Don't administer the lists?

Perhaps I should elaborate.

Your users can subscribe and unsubscribe using email.  They have no reason
to use the web pages, if you guys really believe that cookies are evil.
As to maintaining the lists, that's a whole different story..





From allen at gist.net.au  Mon Nov 29 02:51:00 1999
From: allen at gist.net.au (Allen Bolderoff)
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 12:21:00 +1030
Subject: [Mailman-Users] External Archiver? HOWTO?
Message-ID: <199911290151.MAA18747@harper.gist.net.au>

has anyone actually made use of the external Archiver stuff?

I specifically want to use MHonarc to do the archiving, and I am curious as to 
what I need to do.

Regards

Allen




From efficacy at mediaone.net  Mon Nov 29 04:12:54 1999
From: efficacy at mediaone.net (MCS)
Date: Sun, 28 Nov 1999 22:12:54 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] editing the html
Message-ID: <3841EF36.D35B03CD@mediaone.net>

Hi all,
    How are the html tags <MM-List_name> and other tag variables
resolved by my web browers.  I want to play with the web page so as to
modify these tags. Where are they defined?

Michael




From allen at gist.net.au  Mon Nov 29 04:58:27 1999
From: allen at gist.net.au (Allen Bolderoff)
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 14:28:27 +1030
Subject: [Mailman-Users] EXTERNAL_ARCHIVER problem
Message-ID: <199911290358.OAA20128@harper.gist.net.au>

I have added this to my mm_cfg.py file.

PUBLIC_EXTERNAL_ARCHIVER = '/usr/local/bin/mhonarc -idxfname index.html -add 
/home/sasmoa/archives/${listname} -checknoarchive -expireage 2592000 -idxsize 
15 -noauthsort -outdir /home/sasmoa/archives/${listname} -reverse -nothread 
-nosubsort -title "SASMOA Member Archives - ${listname}"'


in mhonarc terms, this will create an archive in /home/sasmoa/archives/${listna
me}

however, this doesn't even seem to run.

how do I find out if this is even being run?

-- 
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Allen Bolderoff <allen at gist.net.au>
LNC - Redhat and Linux, help and commentary http://linux.netnerve.com
CTPC - Caffeine - get it here: http://www.coffee-tea-pots-cups.com/
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
GPG fingerprint = CBB0 8626 702C 3D01 B5AD  A54A DC2C 93B7 3E4B 6472
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++





From allen at gist.net.au  Mon Nov 29 05:36:33 1999
From: allen at gist.net.au (Allen Bolderoff)
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 15:06:33 +1030
Subject: [Mailman-Users] EXTERNAL_ARCHIVER question
Message-ID: <199911290436.PAA20669@harper.gist.net.au>

how does this pipe to the command?

I take it that it does an implicit | before the command?

thanks.







From claw at kanga.nu  Mon Nov 29 05:18:38 1999
From: claw at kanga.nu (claw at kanga.nu)
Date: Sun, 28 Nov 1999 20:18:38 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] External Archiver? HOWTO? 
In-Reply-To: Message from Allen Bolderoff <allen@gist.net.au> 
   of "Mon, 29 Nov 1999 12:21:00 +1030." <199911290151.MAA18747@harper.gist.net.au> 
Message-ID: <E11sIGs-0005Mw-00@koala.kanga.nu>

On Mon, 29 Nov 1999 12:21:00 +1030 
Allen Bolderoff <allen at gist.net.au> wrote:

> has anyone actually made use of the external Archiver stuff?  

I haven't used the new features.  I do use MHonArc as an external
archiver for a number of lists, encluding the MailMan lists I run.

-- 
J C Lawrence                                 Home: claw at kanga.nu
----------(*)                              Other: coder at kanga.nu
--=| A man is as sane as he is dangerous to his environment |=--



From claw at kanga.nu  Mon Nov 29 05:17:42 1999
From: claw at kanga.nu (claw at kanga.nu)
Date: Sun, 28 Nov 1999 20:17:42 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Cookies 
In-Reply-To: Message from "John A. Martin" <jam@jamux.com> 
   of "Sun, 28 Nov 1999 20:26:00 EST." <19991129012604.C87B6481C@athene.jamux.com> 
Message-ID: <E11sIFy-0005Mj-00@koala.kanga.nu>

On Sun, 28 Nov 1999 20:26:00 -0500 
John A Martin <jam at jamux.com> wrote:

> What can be done to make mailman comply with a privacy policy that
> states "we don't do cookies"?

Simply: Not use the web interface to MailMan.

-- 
J C Lawrence                                 Home: claw at kanga.nu
----------(*)                              Other: coder at kanga.nu
--=| A man is as sane as he is dangerous to his environment |=--



From jam at jamux.com  Mon Nov 29 05:52:54 1999
From: jam at jamux.com (John A. Martin)
Date: Sun, 28 Nov 1999 23:52:54 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Cookies 
In-Reply-To: <E11sIFy-0005Mj-00@koala.kanga.nu> 
	(claw@kanga.nu; Sun, 28 Nov 1999 20:17:42 -0800)
Message-ID: <19991129045257.ECE45481C@athene.jamux.com>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

>>>>> "claw" == claw 
>>>>> "Re: [Mailman-Users] Cookies "
>>>>>  Sun, 28 Nov 1999 20:17:42 -0800

    claw> On Sun, 28 Nov 1999 20:26:00 -0500 John A Martin
    claw> <jam at jamux.com> wrote:

    >> What can be done to make mailman comply with a privacy policy
    >> that states "we don't do cookies"?

    claw> Simply: Not use the web interface to MailMan.

So when the policy of the organization running the lists is no cookies
you do away with the web interface then what do you have for managing
the lists?

And, how do you do away with the web interface?

	jam



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From allen at gist.net.au  Mon Nov 29 05:53:32 1999
From: allen at gist.net.au (Allen Bolderoff)
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 15:23:32 +1030
Subject: [Mailman-Users] UPDATEDQ  EXTERNAL_ARCHIVER question
In-Reply-To: Message from Allen Bolderoff <allen@gist.net.au> 
   of "Mon, 29 Nov 1999 15:06:33 +1030." <199911290436.PAA20669@harper.gist.net.au> 
Message-ID: <199911290453.PAA20774@harper.gist.net.au>

it seems that the documented ${listname} does not work, this is what is 
causing the mhonarc archive creation to fail.
 
what is the actual macro that I use to expand the actual list name within the 
PUBLIC_EXTERNAL_ARCHIVER option?

-- 
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Allen Bolderoff <allen at gist.net.au>
LNC - Redhat and Linux, help and commentary http://linux.netnerve.com
CTPC - Caffeine - get it here: http://www.coffee-tea-pots-cups.com/
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
GPG fingerprint = CBB0 8626 702C 3D01 B5AD  A54A DC2C 93B7 3E4B 6472
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++





From lindsey at ncsa.uiuc.edu  Mon Nov 29 05:53:59 1999
From: lindsey at ncsa.uiuc.edu (Christopher Lindsey)
Date: Sun, 28 Nov 1999 22:53:59 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] EXTERNAL_ARCHIVER question
In-Reply-To: <199911290436.PAA20669@harper.gist.net.au> from "Allen Bolderoff" at Nov 29, 99 03:06:33 pm
Message-ID: <199911290453.WAA07627@ferret.ncsa.uiuc.edu>

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From allen at gist.net.au  Mon Nov 29 06:10:26 1999
From: allen at gist.net.au (Allen Bolderoff)
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 15:40:26 +1030
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: UPDATEDQ EXTERNAL_ARCHIVER question
In-Reply-To: Message from Allen Bolderoff <allen@gist.net.au> 
   of "Mon, 29 Nov 1999 15:23:32 +1030." <199911290453.PAA20774@harper.gist.net.au> 
Message-ID: <199911290510.PAA20973@harper.gist.net.au>

> 
> it seems that the documented ${listname} does not work, this is what is 
> causing the mhonarc archive creation to fail.
>  
> what is the actual macro that I use to expand the actual list name within the 
> PUBLIC_EXTERNAL_ARCHIVER option?

I figured this out by making

PUBLIC_EXTERNAL_ARCHIVER='echo 1=${listname}. >> /home/sasmoa/mailman/logs/ext.log'

all it outputs for any given list is

1=.



-- 
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Allen Bolderoff <allen at gist.net.au>
LNC - Redhat and Linux, help and commentary http://linux.netnerve.com
CTPC - Caffeine - get it here: http://www.coffee-tea-pots-cups.com/
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
GPG fingerprint = CBB0 8626 702C 3D01 B5AD  A54A DC2C 93B7 3E4B 6472
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++





From lindsey at ncsa.uiuc.edu  Mon Nov 29 06:29:51 1999
From: lindsey at ncsa.uiuc.edu (Christopher Lindsey)
Date: Sun, 28 Nov 1999 23:29:51 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] EXTERNAL_ARCHIVER problem
In-Reply-To: <199911290358.OAA20128@harper.gist.net.au> from "Allen Bolderoff" at Nov 29, 99 02:28:27 pm
Message-ID: <199911290529.XAA07822@ferret.ncsa.uiuc.edu>

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From lindsey at ncsa.uiuc.edu  Mon Nov 29 06:59:22 1999
From: lindsey at ncsa.uiuc.edu (Christopher Lindsey)
Date: Sun, 28 Nov 1999 23:59:22 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] EXTERNAL_ARCHIVER problem
In-Reply-To: <199911290529.XAA07822@ferret.ncsa.uiuc.edu> from "Christopher Lindsey" at Nov 28, 99 11:29:51 pm
Message-ID: <199911290559.XAA07956@ferret.ncsa.uiuc.edu>

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From claw at kanga.nu  Mon Nov 29 07:11:34 1999
From: claw at kanga.nu (claw at kanga.nu)
Date: Sun, 28 Nov 1999 22:11:34 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Cookies 
In-Reply-To: Message from "John A. Martin" <jam@jamux.com> 
   of "Sun, 28 Nov 1999 23:52:54 EST." <19991129045257.ECE45481C@athene.jamux.com> 
Message-ID: <E11sK2A-0005cT-00@koala.kanga.nu>

On Sun, 28 Nov 1999 23:52:54 -0500 
John A Martin <jam at jamux.com> wrote:

>>>>>> "claw" == claw "Re: [Mailman-Users] Cookies " Sun, 28 Nov
>>>>>> 1999 20:17:42 -0800

claw> On Sun, 28 Nov 1999 20:26:00 -0500 John A Martin
claw> <jam at jamux.com> wrote:

>>> What can be done to make mailman comply with a privacy policy
>>> that states "we don't do cookies"?

claw> Simply: Not use the web interface to MailMan.

> So when the policy of the organization running the lists is no
> cookies you do away with the web interface then what do you have
> for managing the lists?

Not much at all, and in fact for many/most configuration options:
Nothing.  MailMan without the web interfaces is largely crippled and
most likely unusuable.  I suggest either changing the policy or
using another list manager.

> And, how do you do away with the web interface?

Never install the various stanzas in your web server configs.

-- 
J C Lawrence                                 Home: claw at kanga.nu
----------(*)                              Other: coder at kanga.nu
--=| A man is as sane as he is dangerous to his environment |=--



From lindsey at ncsa.uiuc.edu  Mon Nov 29 07:31:29 1999
From: lindsey at ncsa.uiuc.edu (Christopher Lindsey)
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 00:31:29 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Cookies
In-Reply-To: <19991129012604.C87B6481C@athene.jamux.com> from "John A. Martin" at Nov 28, 99 08:26:00 pm
Message-ID: <199911290631.AAA08128@ferret.ncsa.uiuc.edu>

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From allen at gist.net.au  Mon Nov 29 07:50:34 1999
From: allen at gist.net.au (Allen Bolderoff)
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 17:20:34 +1030
Subject: [Mailman-Users] EXTERNAL_ARCHIVER problem 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sun, 28 Nov 1999 23:59:22 MDT."
             <199911290559.XAA07956@ferret.ncsa.uiuc.edu> 
Message-ID: <199911290650.RAA21861@harper.gist.net.au>

this sort of works, except it seems that the piping does not work.

I have to go out, but will be back in about 4 hours and try it better,


> >    mm_cfg.ARCHIVE_TO_MBOX is 1 or 2
> >    mm_cfg.PUBLIC_EXTERNAL_ARCHIVER is declared
> > 
> > Apparently there's something wrong with the expansion of $listname
> > in Archiver.py.  
> 
> I'm guessing that it's something to do with Python 1.5.1, but it's just
> a thought.  Here's a patch that uses the icky regsub, but it has one
> up on the current code...  It works.  :)
> 
> Use ${LISTNAME} for macro expansion.  This is against Mailman-1.1.
> 
> Chris
> 
> --- Mailman/Archiver/Archiver.py    Sun Nov 28 23:52:32 1999
> ***************
> *** 29,34 ****
> --- 29,35 ----
>   import sys, os, string
>   import errno
>   import traceback
> + import regsub
>   
>   try:
>       from cStringIO import StringIO
> ***************
> *** 183,190 ****
>               post.SetHeader('Date', olddate)
>   
>       def ExternalArchive(self, ar, txt):
> !         d = SafeDict({'listname': self.real_name})
> !         cmd = ar % d
>           extarch = os.popen(cmd, 'w')
>           extarch.write(txt)
>           extarch.close()
> --- 184,190 ----
>               post.SetHeader('Date', olddate)
>   
>       def ExternalArchive(self, ar, txt):
> !         cmd = regsub.gsub('\${LISTNAME}', self.real_name, ar)
>           extarch = os.popen(cmd, 'w')
>           extarch.write(txt)
>           extarch.close()
> 

-- 
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Allen Bolderoff <allen at gist.net.au>
LNC - Redhat and Linux, help and commentary http://linux.netnerve.com
CTPC - Caffeine - get it here: http://www.coffee-tea-pots-cups.com/
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
GPG fingerprint = CBB0 8626 702C 3D01 B5AD  A54A DC2C 93B7 3E4B 6472
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++





From anton at mymlan.lifix.fi  Mon Nov 29 10:01:47 1999
From: anton at mymlan.lifix.fi (Anton Gyllenberg)
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 11:01:47 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] UPDATEDQ EXTERNAL_ARCHIVER question 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 29 Nov 1999 15:23:32 +1030."
             <199911290453.PAA20774@harper.gist.net.au> 
Message-ID: <E11sMgt-00051i-00@mymlan.lifix.fi>

> it seems that the documented ${listname} does not work, this is what is 
> causing the mhonarc archive creation to fail.
>
> what is the actual macro that I use to expand the actual list name within the 
> PUBLIC_EXTERNAL_ARCHIVER option?

I have not read the documentation and do not know how variable
substitution/macro expansion should work. However, take a look
at the code quoted by Christopher:

         d = SafeDict({'listname': self.real_name})
         cmd = ar % d

What we have here is Python's extended format-string handling, so
using '%(listname)s' instead of '${listname}' might give the intended
result.

Python example:
'/bin/touch /tmp/foo%(listname)s' % {'listname': 'bar'}
-> '/bin/touch /tmp/foobar'

--
Anton Gyllenberg



From lindsey at ncsa.uiuc.edu  Mon Nov 29 09:27:56 1999
From: lindsey at ncsa.uiuc.edu (Christopher Lindsey)
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 02:27:56 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] UPDATEDQ EXTERNAL_ARCHIVER question
In-Reply-To: <E11sMgt-00051i-00@mymlan.lifix.fi> from "Anton Gyllenberg" at Nov 29, 99 11:01:47 am
Message-ID: <199911290827.CAA08745@ferret.ncsa.uiuc.edu>

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From jbor at ggki.hu  Mon Nov 29 11:26:37 1999
From: jbor at ggki.hu (=?iso-8859-2?Q?B=F3r=20J=F3zsef?=)
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 11:26:37 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Static addies to mailman archive
Message-ID: <384254DC.E9BCF9AD@ggki.hu>

Is it possible to add additional links or comments to the mailman
archive HTML pages so that they remain there after the regular
re-generation of the archive?

Further: Is it possible to import messages which were archivated by
other programs into the mailman archive?

Thank you for cinsidering my problem. Best regards: Jozsef Bor




From joachim at analog.com  Mon Nov 29 16:06:34 1999
From: joachim at analog.com (Joachim Dahl)
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 16:06:34 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] problems with mail delivery
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.10.9911291605140.22779-100000@www-aalborg.adikent.analog.com>

I have installed mailman v.1.1 on a Linux box. I just followed the default
installation, just changing
the --with-mail-gid and --with-cgi-gid fields. Working locally everything
works smoothly, but
when remote users try to subscribe, I have problems. They never receive
confirmation from Mailman.
I located the problem in the following two log files. (Name and IP nr
changed to prevent spam)

>From /home/mailman/logs/smtp-failures:
Nov 26 12:06:54 1999 TrySMTPDelivery:
Mailman.pythonlib.smtplib.SMTPRecipientsRefused  / 
{'john.doe at analog.com': (550, '<john.doe at analog.com>... Relaying denied')}
(dequeued)

>From /home/mailman/logs/subscribe:
Nov 26 12:06:52 1999  gsm: pending john.doe at analog.com  10.20.30.40


I can send mail to john.doe using sendmail, so the mail system seems to be
working globally (and
I can register locally with confirmation via email).

Does anyone have an idea of how to cure to problem?

Best Regards,
Joachim Dahl




From jam at jamux.com  Mon Nov 29 15:08:48 1999
From: jam at jamux.com (John A. Martin)
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 09:08:48 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Cookies 
In-Reply-To: <E11sK2A-0005cT-00@koala.kanga.nu> 
	(claw@kanga.nu; Sun, 28 Nov 1999 22:11:34 -0800)
Message-ID: <19991129140849.4A8E1481C@athene.jamux.com>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

>>>>> "claw2" == claw 
>>>>> "Re: [Mailman-Users] Cookies "
>>>>>  Sun, 28 Nov 1999 22:11:34 -0800

    claw2> On Sun, 28 Nov 1999 23:52:54 -0500 John A Martin
    claw2> <jam at jamux.com> wrote:

    >>>>>>> "claw" == claw "Re: [Mailman-Users] Cookies " Sun, 28 Nov
    >>>>>>> 1999 20:17:42 -0800

    claw> On Sun, 28 Nov 1999 20:26:00 -0500 John A Martin
    claw> <jam at jamux.com> wrote:

    >>>> What can be done to make mailman comply with a privacy policy
    >>>> that states "we don't do cookies"?

    claw> Simply: Not use the web interface to MailMan.

    >> So when the policy of the organization running the lists is no
    >> cookies you do away with the web interface then what do you
    >> have for managing the lists?

    claw2> Not much at all, and in fact for many/most configuration
    claw2> options: Nothing.  MailMan without the web interfaces is
    claw2> largely crippled and most likely unusuable.  I suggest
    claw2> either changing the policy or using another list manager.

    >> And, how do you do away with the web interface?

    claw2> Never install the various stanzas in your web server
    claw2> configs.

Er.. Throw away the baby with the bath water?

Unless I miss something cookies seem not to be involved for the
ordinary subscriber, right?

A list owner/admin can refuse cookies and operate by giving his
password at every turn.  It also appears that the cookies that are
offered expire quickly, 3 hours IIRC.

So, would it be possible as a first step to simply turn off the
mechanism that offers cookies and proceed as if they were refused?

It would be nice of course to tidy things up to make it better for the
cookie hating site.  It would seem a pity for mailman to be fully
dependent upon something as controversial as cookies.

	jam

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From jam at jamux.com  Mon Nov 29 15:09:03 1999
From: jam at jamux.com (John A. Martin)
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 09:09:03 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Cookies 
In-Reply-To: <199911290631.AAA08128@ferret.ncsa.uiuc.edu> 
	(Christopher Lindsey; Mon, 29 Nov 1999 00:31:29 -0600)
Message-ID: <19991129140903.81CD6481D@athene.jamux.com>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

>>>>> "Chris" == Christopher Lindsey
>>>>> "Re: [Mailman-Users] Cookies"
>>>>>  Mon, 29 Nov 1999 00:31:29 -0600 (CST)

    >> What can be done to make mailman comply with a privacy policy
    >> that states "we don't do cookies"?

    Chris> Easiest solution is to modify the privacy policy so that it
    Chris> allows cookies for mailing list usage only.

    Chris> However, if the company/organization is too bloated or
    Chris> bureaucratic to get this done in any reasonable amount of
    Chris> time, not much with the current code.

FWIW in this instance it is the difference between a privacy policy
that says, in effect, "We do not offer nor accept cookies, if you are
asked to accept a cookie you are not connected to this site" and a
policy that says, in effect, "Trust us and anybody who may impersonate
us or one of our pages not to misuse cookies".

    Chris> But...  Code was submitted back in July to allow .htaccess
    Chris> style authentication (read "not cookies) so that we could
    Chris> use our much preferred, stronger Kerberos authentication on
    Chris> a secure server (single sign-on is Good).

    Chris> I'll see if I can dig up the code.  If you don't hear from
    Chris> me in a week, ping me.  Memory == sieve.  :)

Thank you.  That might be a great help.

Will your patch allow single sign-on without Kerberos?  The
requirement is to conform to the same simple direct privacy statement
as on other web servers at the site.  The mail and web server are on a
host dedicated to the mailing lists and their archives (now listproc)
which are not sensitive.  Consideration is being given to using
Apache-SSL for Mailman.

The cookie business could be a killer unless it can be disabled while
awaiting a single sign-on solution.

	jam

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From juh at pironet.de  Mon Nov 29 15:48:34 1999
From: juh at pironet.de (Jan Ulrich Hasecke)
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 15:48:34 +0100 (MET)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] German Templates
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.20.9911291548000.14362-100000@hasecke.hasecke>

Are there German Templates for Mailman?

Ciao!
juh

-- 
juh's Sudelbuch
Best of 1999: Was gefiel, was missfiel den Lesern 1999?
http://www.sudelbuch.de/best1999/index.html




From pjh at mccc.edu  Mon Nov 29 16:51:59 1999
From: pjh at mccc.edu (Pete Holsberg)
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 10:51:59 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Error updating in 1.1
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.10.9911291051001.8987-100000@tecoma.mccc.edu>

When I do "make update", I get this message:

(pjh) saturn:/root/mailman/mailman-1.1> make update
  File "bin/update", line 8
    import sys, os, string
    ^
SyntaxError: invalid syntax

What does that mean? What do I do to correct it?

Thanks,
Pete




From bwarsaw at cnri.reston.va.us  Mon Nov 29 16:52:23 1999
From: bwarsaw at cnri.reston.va.us (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 10:52:23 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] UPDATEDQ EXTERNAL_ARCHIVER question 
References: <199911290453.PAA20774@harper.gist.net.au>
	<E11sMgt-00051i-00@mymlan.lifix.fi>
Message-ID: <14402.41271.970391.983300@anthem.cnri.reston.va.us>

>>>>> "AG" == Anton Gyllenberg <anton at mymlan.lifix.fi> writes:

    AG> What we have here is Python's extended format-string handling,
    AG> so using '%(listname)s' instead of '${listname}' might give
    AG> the intended result.

Exactly.  I've updated the comment in Defaults.py{.in} to read:

# These variables control the use of an external archiver.  Normally if
# archiving is turned on (see ARCHIVE_TO_MBOX above and the list's archive*
# attributes) the internal Pipermail archiver is used.  This is the default if
# both of these variables are set to false.  When either is set, the value
# should be a shell command string which will get passed to os.popen().  This
# string can contain $(listname)s for dictionary interpolation.  The name of
# the list being archived will be substituted for this.
#
# Note that if you set one of these variables, you should set both of them
# (they can be the same string).  This will mean your external archiver will
# be used regardless of whether public or private archives are selected.
PUBLIC_EXTERNAL_ARCHIVER = 0
PRIVATE_EXTERNAL_ARCHIVER = 0



From pjh at mccc.edu  Mon Nov 29 16:58:34 1999
From: pjh at mccc.edu (Pete Holsberg)
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 10:58:34 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mucho Errors!!!
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.10.9911291057310.9257-100000@tecoma.mccc.edu>

Ohoh! All commands in $prefix/bin give the same error
messaage:

(pjh) saturn:/home/mailman/bin> ./check_perms
  File "./check_perms", line 13
    import sys
    ^
SyntaxError: invalid syntax
(pjh) saturn:/home/mailman/bin> ./check_perms -f
  File "./check_perms", line 13
    import sys
    ^
SyntaxError: invalid syntax
(pjh) saturn:/home/mailman/bin> ./version 
  File "./version", line 22
    import paths
    ^
SyntaxError: invalid syntax

What now?

Thanks,
Pete




From bac at ivc.com  Mon Nov 29 17:06:28 1999
From: bac at ivc.com (Brad Crittenden)
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 11:06:28 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Q: External Archiver HOWTO
Message-ID: <NDBBLMHEELDKLGHEEMJPOEIICAAA.bac@ivc.com>

all:

i hope this doesn't sound excessively lazy, but i'm wondering if anyone has
produced a HOWTO document providing cookbook steps for setting up mailman to
use an external archiver like mhonarc?

i've been running mailman for a while and it is great.  i want to convert to
an external archiver but i don't have the cycles right now to do a lot of
investigation or tweaking.

thanks for any help you can provide,

brad




From allen at gist.net.au  Mon Nov 29 17:33:58 1999
From: allen at gist.net.au (Allen Bolderoff)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 03:03:58 +1030
Subject: [Mailman-Users] HOWTO - EXTERNAL Archiver
In-Reply-To: Message from "Brad Crittenden" <bac@ivc.com> 
   of "Mon, 29 Nov 1999 11:06:28 CDT." <NDBBLMHEELDKLGHEEMJPOEIICAAA.bac@ivc.com> 
Message-ID: <199911291633.DAA26644@harper.gist.net.au>

This is the unofficial, 1st probably the last howto for using an External 
Archiver (specifically Mhonarc) with mailman (http://www.list.org)
it works for me, YMMV

Allen

1. Install mailman as per the installation instructions.

2. create a list as per the mailman instructions.  

3. edit $prefix/Mailman/mm.cfg.py and add the following line (or 2) 
substituting paths for something sane to you.

PUBLIC_EXTERNAL_ARCHIVER = '(mkdir -p /home/sasmoa/archives/%(listname)s ; 
/usr/local/bin/mhonarc -nomodtime -add -umask 022 -outdir 
/home/sasmoa/archives/%(listname)s -multipg  -expireage 2592000 -idxsize 15 
-noauthsort -reverse -nothread -nosubsort -idxfname index.html -rcfile 
/home/sasmoa/admin/%(listname)s.rc)'
PRIVATE_EXTERNAL_ARCHIVER = '(mkdir -p /home/sasmoa/archives/%(listname)s ; 
/usr/local/bin/mhonarc -nomodtime -add -umask 022 -outdir 
/home/sasmoa/archives/%(listname)s -multipg  -expireage 2592000 -idxsize 15 
-noauthsort -reverse -nothread -nosubsort -idxfname index.html -rcfile 
/home/sasmoa/admin/%(listname)s.rc)'

4. send message to list to test things.

5. edit $prefix/Mailman/mm.cfg.py and make the following variable point to 
your web site archive folder

PUBLIC_ARCHIVE_URL=/myarchives

6. make the web server mount the url in setp 5 with the value of the -outdir 
option form mhonarc in setp 3.

7. it should work.

-- 
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Allen Bolderoff <allen at gist.net.au>
LNC - Redhat and Linux, help and commentary http://linux.netnerve.com
CTPC - Caffeine - get it here: http://www.coffee-tea-pots-cups.com/
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
GPG fingerprint = CBB0 8626 702C 3D01 B5AD  A54A DC2C 93B7 3E4B 6472
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++





From bwarsaw at cnri.reston.va.us  Mon Nov 29 17:44:09 1999
From: bwarsaw at cnri.reston.va.us (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 11:44:09 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mucho Errors!!!
References: <Pine.GSO.4.10.9911291057310.9257-100000@tecoma.mccc.edu>
Message-ID: <14402.44377.991761.506367@anthem.cnri.reston.va.us>

Could your Python installation be screwed up?  What version of Python
are you using?

-Barry



From pjh at mccc.edu  Mon Nov 29 17:54:51 1999
From: pjh at mccc.edu (Pete Holsberg)
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 11:54:51 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mucho Errors!!!
In-Reply-To: <14402.44377.991761.506367@anthem.cnri.reston.va.us>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.10.9911291153510.11517-100000@tecoma.mccc.edu>

On Mon, 29 Nov 1999, Barry A. Warsaw wrote:

> Could your Python installation be screwed up?  What
> version of Python are you using?

(pjh) saturn:~> python
Python 1.5.2 (#1, Oct 28 1999, 17:06:09)  [GCC 2.7.2.1] on linux2
Copyright 1991-1995 Stichting Mathematisch Centrum, Amsterdam

How can I tell ooif it is screwed up?

Thanks,
Pete




From pfaff at edge.cis.mcmaster.ca  Mon Nov 29 18:22:24 1999
From: pfaff at edge.cis.mcmaster.ca (Todd Pfaff)
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 12:22:24 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] newlist problem
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.10.9911291221520.10364-100000@edge.cis.mcmaster.ca>

mailman 1.1
python 1.5.2
solaris 2.6

can anyone tell me what this traceback from the newlist command means?
newlist used to work fine on this mailman installation.  not sure when it
stopped working or why.

myhost% newlist testlist pfaff at edge.cis.mcmaster.ca password
Traceback (innermost last):
  File "/usr/local/mailman/bin/newlist", line 146, in ?
    raise SystemExit(main(sys.argv))
  File "/usr/local/mailman/bin/newlist", line 93, in main
    newlist.Create(list_name, owner_mail, pw)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 728, in Create
    self.Lock()
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 1372, in Lock
    self.__lock.lock()
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/LockFile.py", line 245, in lock
    os.unlink(self.__tmpfname)
OSError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory:
'/usr/local/mailman/locks/<site>.lock.myhost.11867'

--
Todd Pfaff                         \  Email: pfaff at mcmaster.ca
Computing and Information Services  \ Voice: (905) 525-9140 x22920
ABB 132                              \  FAX: (905) 528-3773
McMaster University                   \
Hamilton, Ontario, Canada  L8S 4M1     \




From pjh at mccc.edu  Mon Nov 29 18:58:06 1999
From: pjh at mccc.edu (Pete Holsberg)
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 12:58:06 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problems with 1.1
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.10.9911291254510.14156-100000@tecoma.mccc.edu>

I've remade python and mailman 1.1.

I've done the smrsh link.

I've checked permissions.

I can access the web interface but I can't send mail to a
list. I get:

The original message was received at Mon, 29 Nov 1999
12:42:24 -0500
from localhost

   ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----
"|/home/mailman/mail/wrapper mailowner et124"
    (expanded from: et124-admin)

   ----- Transcript of session follows -----
554 "|/home/mailman/mail/wrapper mailowner et124"... unknown mailer error 2

and

The original message was received at Mon, 29 Nov 1999 12:42:24 -0500
from tecoma.mccc.edu [198.133.170.1]

   ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----
"|/home/mailman/mail/wrapper post et124"
    (expanded from: <et124 at saturn.mccc.edu>)

   ----- Transcript of session follows -----
554 "|/home/mailman/mail/wrapper post et124"... unknown mailer error 2

Help! Please!

Thanks,
pete




From alvherre at c5.cl  Mon Nov 29 19:55:47 1999
From: alvherre at c5.cl (Alvaro Herrera)
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 15:55:47 -0300 (CLST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] UPDATEDQ EXTERNAL_ARCHIVER question 
In-Reply-To: <14402.41271.970391.983300@anthem.cnri.reston.va.us>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.10.9911291554190.3478-100000@enlaces.c5.cl>

On Mon, 29 Nov 1999, Barry A. Warsaw wrote:

[...]
> Exactly.  I've updated the comment in Defaults.py{.in} to read:
> 
> # These variables control the use of an external archiver.  Normally if
> # archiving is turned on (see ARCHIVE_TO_MBOX above and the list's archive*
> # attributes) the internal Pipermail archiver is used.  This is the default if
> # both of these variables are set to false.  When either is set, the value
> # should be a shell command string which will get passed to os.popen().  This
> # string can contain $(listname)s for dictionary interpolation.  The name of
                       ^

	% ?

[...]

-- 
"Cuando man~ana llegue pelearemos segun lo que man~ana exija" (R. Kipling)
Geek Code disponible via finger alvherre at enlaces.c5.cl
Alvaro Herrera (alvherre at c5.cl)




From bwarsaw at cnri.reston.va.us  Mon Nov 29 20:21:04 1999
From: bwarsaw at cnri.reston.va.us (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 14:21:04 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] UPDATEDQ EXTERNAL_ARCHIVER question 
References: <14402.41271.970391.983300@anthem.cnri.reston.va.us>
	<Pine.LNX.4.10.9911291554190.3478-100000@enlaces.c5.cl>
Message-ID: <14402.53792.578692.885391@anthem.cnri.reston.va.us>

Yes, my bad.  It should be %




From bwarsaw at cnri.reston.va.us  Mon Nov 29 20:50:03 1999
From: bwarsaw at cnri.reston.va.us (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 14:50:03 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] editing the html
References: <3841EF36.D35B03CD@mediaone.net>
Message-ID: <14402.55531.481349.802423@anthem.cnri.reston.va.us>

>>>>> "M" == MCS  <efficacy at mediaone.net> writes:

    M> Hi all, How are the html tags <MM-List_name> and other tag
    M> variables resolved by my web browers.  I want to play with the
    M> web page so as to modify these tags. Where are they defined?

Those are not resolved by your browser, but instead are substituted
by the Mailman system.



From bwarsaw at cnri.reston.va.us  Mon Nov 29 20:49:27 1999
From: bwarsaw at cnri.reston.va.us (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 14:49:27 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Cookies
References: <Pine.BSF.4.10.9911281743160.36918-100000@heaven.gigo.com>
	<Pine.BSF.4.10.9911281743480.36918-100000@heaven.gigo.com>
Message-ID: <14402.55495.201107.401949@anthem.cnri.reston.va.us>

>>>>> "jfesler" ==   <jfesler at gigo.com> writes:

    jfesler> Your users can subscribe and unsubscribe using email.
    jfesler> They have no reason to use the web pages, if you guys
    jfesler> really believe that cookies are evil.  As to maintaining
    jfesler> the lists, that's a whole different story..

Yeah, unfortunately the admin pages just don't work so well without
cookies.  All user interactions should be fine though.  In the short
term, you can probably still be honest about your privacy statement if
all your list admins are internal to your organization, since your
list members will never have to worry about it.

-Barry



From david at bus.ucf.edu  Mon Nov 29 20:58:40 1999
From: david at bus.ucf.edu (David Collantes)
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 14:58:40 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] editing the html
In-Reply-To: <14402.55531.481349.802423@anthem.cnri.reston.va.us>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.20.9911291456570.8116-100000@atlantis.bus.ucf.edu>

On Mon, 29 Nov 1999, Barry A. Warsaw wrote:

OM# >>>>> "M" == MCS  <efficacy at mediaone.net> writes:
OM# 
OM#     M> Hi all, How are the html tags <MM-List_name> and other tag
OM#     M> variables resolved by my web browers.  I want to play with the
OM#     M> web page so as to modify these tags. Where are they defined?
OM# 
OM# Those are not resolved by your browser, but instead are substituted
OM# by the Mailman system.

I guess that reply will not do any good to MCS. I also would like to know
how to modify mailman to fit my interface. Whereto go to change the
HTML code? Help, anyone?

Cheers,


,----------------------------------.,-----------------------------------.
| David Collantes                  || email: david at bus.ucf.edu          |
| Senior Systems Administrator,    || phone: (407) 823-3418             |
| Network Operations Manager       || UCFBusiness - UCF, Orlando, FL    |
`----------------------------------'`-----------------------------------'




From claw at kanga.nu  Mon Nov 29 21:17:44 1999
From: claw at kanga.nu (claw at kanga.nu)
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 12:17:44 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Cookies 
In-Reply-To: Message from "John A. Martin" <jam@jamux.com> 
   of "Mon, 29 Nov 1999 09:08:48 EST." <19991129140849.4A8E1481C@athene.jamux.com> 
Message-ID: <E11sXF3-0006kz-00@koala.kanga.nu>

On Mon, 29 Nov 1999 09:08:48 -0500 
John A Martin <jam at jamux.com> wrote:

>>>>>> "claw2" == claw "Re: [Mailman-Users] Cookies " Sun, 28 Nov
>>>>>> 1999 22:11:34 -0800
claw2> Never install the various stanzas in your web server configs.

> Er.. Throw away the baby with the bath water?

Yup.  They two are married at this point.

> Unless I miss something cookies seem not to be involved for the
> ordinary subscriber, right?

No.  Cookies are not involved for just subscribing to a list, but
they are involved for browsing the archives, changing subscription
configurations (NOMAIL, digest, etc) and such.

If your users will never wish to change their subscriptions from
their default values, and you use an external archiver, yes, your
users should be able to remain cookie free.

> A list owner/admin can refuse cookies and operate by giving his
> password at every turn.  

My only experience here is that this didn't work (the changes made
without cookies weren't made).  Try it and see.  It may have changed 
sice I last tested this a a year ago.

> It also appears that the cookies that are offered expire quickly,
> 3 hours IIRC.

Yup.  

> It would be nice of course to tidy things up to make it better for
> the cookie hating site.  It would seem a pity for mailman to be
> fully dependent upon something as controversial as cookies.

I would prefer to argue that a life (or a project development) spent
in avoidance of controversy is wasted.  Cookies are not inherently
evil.  They can be abused and used for unpleasant purposes but that
is not a fault of the technique itself but of its application.  

-- 
J C Lawrence                                 Home: claw at kanga.nu
----------(*)                              Other: coder at kanga.nu
--=| A man is as sane as he is dangerous to his environment |=--



From sweeney at projectcool.com  Mon Nov 29 21:34:03 1999
From: sweeney at projectcool.com (Michael Sweeney)
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 12:34:03 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] editing the html
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.20.9911291456570.8116-100000@atlantis.bus.ucf.e
 du>
References: <14402.55531.481349.802423@anthem.cnri.reston.va.us>
Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.19991129122735.00a44b60@jupiter.projectcool.com>

Depends on what modifications you want to make. The basic template files 
are in the MAILMAN-DIR/templates directory if you want to change the 
interface pages for all new lists. You can edit them and use the
<MM-variable-name> tags that will keep the essential mailman functionality. 
For existing lists, or changes specific to a particular list, you can use 
the "Edit the HTML for the public list pages" link from the admin pages.

If you are wanting to change the content and/or formatting of what is 
expanded from the <MM-...> tags, you have to get into the Python source 
code. Depending on which tag you want to change, you have to look through 
the source to find the specific tag. But remember that if you change the 
sources, the changes are likely to be lost on upgrade or re-installation.

Michael


At 02:58 PM 11/29/99 -0500, you wrote:
>On Mon, 29 Nov 1999, Barry A. Warsaw wrote:
>
>OM# >>>>> "M" == MCS  <efficacy at mediaone.net> writes:
>OM#
>OM#     M> Hi all, How are the html tags <MM-List_name> and other tag
>OM#     M> variables resolved by my web browers.  I want to play with the
>OM#     M> web page so as to modify these tags. Where are they defined?
>OM#
>OM# Those are not resolved by your browser, but instead are substituted
>OM# by the Mailman system.
>
>I guess that reply will not do any good to MCS. I also would like to know
>how to modify mailman to fit my interface. Whereto go to change the
>HTML code? Help, anyone?
>
>Cheers,
>
>
>,----------------------------------.,-----------------------------------.
>| David Collantes                  || email: david at bus.ucf.edu          |
>| Senior Systems Administrator,    || phone: (407) 823-3418             |
>| Network Operations Manager       || UCFBusiness - UCF, Orlando, FL    |
>`----------------------------------'`-----------------------------------'
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------
>Mailman-Users maillist  -  Mailman-Users at python.org
>http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users





From pjh at mccc.edu  Mon Nov 29 22:59:52 1999
From: pjh at mccc.edu (Pete Holsberg)
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 16:59:52 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Oh-Oh -- problem with admin
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.10.9911291658410.23794-100000@tecoma.mccc.edu>

In attempting to access

http://saturn.mccc.edu/mailman/admin/et124

I get the following:

Traceback (innermost last):
  File "/home/mailman/scripts/driver", line 112, in run_main
    main()
  File "../Mailman/Cgi/admin.py", line 121, in main
    text = Utils.maketext(
  File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Utils.py", line 701, in maketext
    fp = open(file)
IOError: (2, 'No such file or directory')

????

Thanks,
Pete




From bwarsaw at cnri.reston.va.us  Mon Nov 29 23:15:14 1999
From: bwarsaw at cnri.reston.va.us (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 17:15:14 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Errors Where are they
References: <LOBBKJEBBFAIDPLFCFHAGEDDCCAA.boogiell@ionet.net>
Message-ID: <14402.64242.327976.2913@anthem.cnri.reston.va.us>

>>>>> "TL" == Tricia Llewellyn <boogiell at ionet.net> writes:

    TL> I have a problem and I can't seem to find out where mailman
    TL> logs errors. I know that wrapper is getting atleast ran but
    TL> that is all I can tell. Help how can I tell what happens after
    TL> wrapper gets ran. It almost looks like it is just dying after
    TL> a post. No post get through.

Once you get to Python code, Mailman's errors all go to logs/error in
the installation directory (usually /home/mailman).  You may need to
check your syslog if the problem is occuring in the C wrapper
program.  That's usually where your MTA writes its error messages to.

-Barry



From jam at jamux.com  Mon Nov 29 23:36:39 1999
From: jam at jamux.com (John A. Martin)
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 17:36:39 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Cookies 
In-Reply-To: <14402.55495.201107.401949@anthem.cnri.reston.va.us> 
	("Barry A. Warsaw"; Mon, 29 Nov 1999 14:49:27 -0500)
Message-ID: <19991129223641.C90AC481C@athene.jamux.com>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

>>>>> "Barry" == Barry A Warsaw
>>>>> "Re: [Mailman-Users] Cookies"
>>>>>  Mon, 29 Nov 1999 14:49:27 -0500 (EST)

>>>>> "jfesler" ==   <jfesler at gigo.com> writes:

    jfesler> Your users can subscribe and unsubscribe using email.
    jfesler> They have no reason to use the web pages, if you guys
    jfesler> really believe that cookies are evil.  As to maintaining
    jfesler> the lists, that's a whole different story..

    Barry> Yeah, unfortunately the admin pages just don't work so well
    Barry> without cookies.

So is it just inconvenient or does it not work at all?  I found I
could navigate but hadn't tried changing anything on the admin pages.

    Barry> All user interactions should be fine
    Barry> though.  In the short term, you can probably still be
    Barry> honest about your privacy statement if all your list admins
    Barry> are internal to your organization, since your list members
    Barry> will never have to worry about it.

Most of the list administrators are outsiders.

Present management inherited about 120 listproc lists with an
aggregate of about 30K subscribers and the listproc owners file cuts
and uniques to about 80 of which less than half grep away on the
hosting domain.

Advertising a clear and definite statement as to what the cookies do
and why _might_ be tolerated as a stop gap awaiting a single-login
setup.  However, having normal subscribers see a cookie request when
visiting the list members pages would not be appreciated.  I believe
this happens when viewing private archives.

A diluted privacy statement something like (from www.isc.org)

	Cookie technology is not being used at our web sites to
	identify your viewing habits, references, or requests when
	they are interspersed with other requests from the same
	domain.

with a succinct explanation of what cookies are used for in connection
with the mailing lists might be worth considering.  Can you help with
possible language describing how mailman uses cookies and why?

Is it realistic to expect to have a single-login option any time soon,
for some definition of soon?

It may be very difficult to overcome the requirement to comply with a
simple "no cookie" policy.

	jam

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.0.0 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: By Mailcrypt 3.5.4 and Gnu Privacy Guard <http://www.gnupg.org/>

iD8DBQE4Qv/lUEvv1b/iXy8RAlo8AJ9saeTLr96JVgGDBY3e7+yt0X2q9wCgivMU
MK+gnHd6RSvdWB4YHLJ1yBQ=
=U6lu
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----



From bwarsaw at cnri.reston.va.us  Tue Nov 30 00:09:33 1999
From: bwarsaw at cnri.reston.va.us (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 18:09:33 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Cookies 
References: <14402.55495.201107.401949@anthem.cnri.reston.va.us>
	<19991129223641.C90AC481C@athene.jamux.com>
Message-ID: <14403.1965.136559.863860@anthem.cnri.reston.va.us>

>>>>> "jam" == John A Martin <jam at jamux.com> writes:

    jam> So is it just inconvenient or does it not work at all?  I
    jam> found I could navigate but hadn't tried changing anything on
    jam> the admin pages.

I don't think you'll be able to change any list configuration
variables via the web w/o cookies.

    jam> Advertising a clear and definite statement as to what the
    jam> cookies do and why _might_ be tolerated as a stop gap
    jam> awaiting a single-login setup.  However, having normal
    jam> subscribers see a cookie request when visiting the list
    jam> members pages would not be appreciated.  I believe this
    jam> happens when viewing private archives.

Urg, you're right, there's still a few places where users may interact
with cookies.

    jam> Can you help with possible language describing how mailman
    jam> uses cookies and why?

Here's a first shot:

Some of Mailman's operations require user authentication and
authorization.  Examples include a user changing her mailing list
subscription options, viewing a list's private archives, or a list
administrator modifying mailing list configuration options.  In all
cases, a password is required in order to authenticate the user or
list administrator.  In some situations, this information is sent back
to your browser in the form of a cookie.  These cookies are used
primarily for convenience, so you don't have to type your password
every time you perform an action requiring authorization.

    jam> Is it realistic to expect to have a single-login option any
    jam> time soon, for some definition of soon?

I have to be honest that getting rid of cookies is not high on my list
of priorities.  Have a real user database is, but it's not work that
I'm likely to do any time soon.  Harald is I think prototyping some
efforts in this regard.  It's not clear to me that the two are
mutually exclusive though!  You may have single-login but still
require cookies.  Changing Mailman to systematically use a different
security scheme is more work than I have time for right now, but I'd
help answer questions if someone else takes up the cause.

-Barry



From andreas at mtg.co.at  Tue Nov 30 03:09:11 1999
From: andreas at mtg.co.at (Andreas Kostyrka)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 03:09:11 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Cookies
In-Reply-To: <19991129140903.81CD6481D@athene.jamux.com>; from jam@jamux.com on Mon, Nov 29, 1999 at 09:09:03AM -0500
References: <199911290631.AAA08128@ferret.ncsa.uiuc.edu> <19991129140903.81CD6481D@athene.jamux.com>
Message-ID: <19991130030911.C919@mtg.co.at>

On Mon, Nov 29, 1999 at 09:09:03AM -0500, John A. Martin wrote:
> 
> Will your patch allow single sign-on without Kerberos?  The
> requirement is to conform to the same simple direct privacy statement
> as on other web servers at the site.  The mail and web server are on a
> host dedicated to the mailing lists and their archives (now listproc)
> which are not sensitive.  Consideration is being given to using
> Apache-SSL for Mailman.
> 
> The cookie business could be a killer unless it can be disabled while
> awaiting a single sign-on solution.
Well, mailman can also be used without the Webinterface like any other
list processor. Admittingly it losses much of it's appeal, but it's workable.

Andreas
-- 
Andreas Kostyrka                     | andreas at mtg.co.at
phone: +43/1/7070750                 | phone: +43/676/4091256   
MTG Handelsges.m.b.H.                | fax:   +43/1/7065299
Raiffeisenstr. 16/9                  | 2320 Zwoelfaxing AUSTRIA        




From allen at gist.net.au  Tue Nov 30 04:05:06 1999
From: allen at gist.net.au (Allen Bolderoff)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 13:35:06 +1030
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: HOWTO - EXTERNAL Archiver
In-Reply-To: Message from "Brad Crittenden" <bac@ivc.com> 
   of "Mon, 29 Nov 1999 17:28:01 CDT." <NDBBLMHEELDKLGHEEMJPOEIJCAAA.bac@ivc.com> 
Message-ID: <199911300305.NAA01952@harper.gist.net.au>

> allen:
> 
> thanks for your help.  it was just the encouragement i needed to jump in.
> 
> i have one question though.  while using an external archiver, are mailman
> archive volumes respected?  if i set 'How often should a new archive volume
> be started' to monthly or yearly, will this set up know to create new
> volumes?
> 

I don't know for sure, I would pretty safely assume that they do not affect 
the external mailer, as the external mailer would have no way of using the 
variables data.

I just use the mhonarc commands to do that.



> thanks again,
> 
> brad
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Allen Bolderoff [mailto:allen at gist.net.au]
> Sent: Monday, November 29, 1999 11:34 AM
> To: Brad Crittenden
> Cc: mailman-users at python.org; allen at harper.gist.net.au
> Subject: HOWTO - EXTERNAL Archiver
> 
> 
> This is the unofficial, 1st probably the last howto for using an External
> Archiver (specifically Mhonarc) with mailman (http://www.list.org)
> it works for me, YMMV
> 
> Allen
> 
> 1. Install mailman as per the installation instructions.
> 
> 2. create a list as per the mailman instructions.
> 
> 3. edit $prefix/Mailman/mm.cfg.py and add the following line (or 2)
> substituting paths for something sane to you.
> 
> PUBLIC_EXTERNAL_ARCHIVER = '(mkdir -p /home/sasmoa/archives/%(listname)s ;
> /usr/local/bin/mhonarc -nomodtime -add -umask 022 -outdir
> /home/sasmoa/archives/%(listname)s -multipg  -expireage 2592000 -idxsize 15
> -noauthsort -reverse -nothread -nosubsort -idxfname index.html -rcfile
> /home/sasmoa/admin/%(listname)s.rc)'
> PRIVATE_EXTERNAL_ARCHIVER = '(mkdir -p /home/sasmoa/archives/%(listname)s ;
> /usr/local/bin/mhonarc -nomodtime -add -umask 022 -outdir
> /home/sasmoa/archives/%(listname)s -multipg  -expireage 2592000 -idxsize 15
> -noauthsort -reverse -nothread -nosubsort -idxfname index.html -rcfile
> /home/sasmoa/admin/%(listname)s.rc)'
> 
> 4. send message to list to test things.
> 
> 5. edit $prefix/Mailman/mm.cfg.py and make the following variable point to
> your web site archive folder
> 
> PUBLIC_ARCHIVE_URL=/myarchives
> 
> 6. make the web server mount the url in setp 5 with the value of the -outdir
> option form mhonarc in setp 3.
> 
> 7. it should work.
> 
> --
> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> Allen Bolderoff <allen at gist.net.au>
> LNC - Redhat and Linux, help and commentary http://linux.netnerve.com
> CTPC - Caffeine - get it here: http://www.coffee-tea-pots-cups.com/
> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> GPG fingerprint = CBB0 8626 702C 3D01 B5AD  A54A DC2C 93B7 3E4B 6472
> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> 

-- 
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Allen Bolderoff <allen at gist.net.au>
LNC - Redhat and Linux, help and commentary http://linux.netnerve.com
CTPC - Caffeine - get it here: http://www.coffee-tea-pots-cups.com/
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
GPG fingerprint = CBB0 8626 702C 3D01 B5AD  A54A DC2C 93B7 3E4B 6472
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++





From gossamer at tertius.net.au  Tue Nov 30 07:09:09 1999
From: gossamer at tertius.net.au (Bek Oberin)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 17:09:09 +1100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Weird errors
Message-ID: <19991130170909.R8374@tertius.net.au>

We have mail posted from a web form directly  to a mailing
list and it's all bouncing with bizarre errors.  Here's one:

The original message was received at Tue, 30 Nov 1999 16:40:00 +1100
from www at localhost

   ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----
"|/var/lib/mailman/mail/wrapper post training"
    (expanded from: training+eval at netizen.com.au)

   ----- Transcript of session follows -----
Traceback (innermost last):
  File "/var/lib/mailman/scripts/post", line 73, in ?
    mlist.Post(msg, approved=fromusenet)
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 1179, in Post
    sender = msg.GetSender()
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Message.py", line 119, in GetSender
    return string.lower(mail_address)
TypeError: read-only buffer, None
554 "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/wrapper post training"... unknown mailer error 1


I've checked and normal mail posted to listname+foo at bar works
fine so it's not the +eval that's problematic.  Any ideas?


bekj

-- 
: --Hacker-Neophile-Eclectic-Geek-Grrl-Queer-Disabled-Boychick--
: gossamer at tertius.net.au   http://www.tertius.net.au/~gossamer/
: What is a magician but a practicing theorist?
: -- Obi-Wan Kenobi, 'Return of the Jedi'



From marco.mesturino at cselt.it  Tue Nov 30 10:55:36 1999
From: marco.mesturino at cselt.it (Marco Mesturino)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 10:55:36 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] "AttributeError: strptime" in mailman/cron/nightly_gzip
Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.19991130104702.00b01280@xnole.cselt.it>

On a Linux Mandrake 6.0 with mailman 1.1, I keep receiving these warnings 
from cron:

>Traceback (innermost last):
>   File "/usr/local/mailman/cron/nightly_gzip", line 143, in ?
>     main()
>   File "/usr/local/mailman/cron/nightly_gzip", line 114, in main
>     time.strptime(f, '%Y-%B.txt')
>AttributeError: strptime

Once a day at 3:27 AM.

It looks like a UID/permissions problem, but -- alas! -- I do not speak 
python. Please, could anybody point me in the right direction?

Regards,
         Marco

----- *MM*     <Marco.Mesturino at CSELT.it>
Fax:+39-011.228.6190 Pho:+39-011.228.5111
Centro Studi e Lab. Telecomunicazioni SpA
v. G.R.Romoli, 274 - 10148 Torino - ITALY



From ptomblin at xcski.com  Tue Nov 30 13:09:54 1999
From: ptomblin at xcski.com (Paul Tomblin)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 07:09:54 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] "AttributeError: strptime" in mailman/cron/nightly_gzip
In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.19991130104702.00b01280@xnole.cselt.it>; from Marco Mesturino on Tue, Nov 30, 1999 at 10:55:36AM +0100
References: <4.2.0.58.19991130104702.00b01280@xnole.cselt.it>
Message-ID: <19991130070954.B1169@xcski.com>

Quoting Marco Mesturino (marco.mesturino at cselt.it):
> On a Linux Mandrake 6.0 with mailman 1.1, I keep receiving these warnings 
> from cron:
> 
> >Traceback (innermost last):
> >   File "/usr/local/mailman/cron/nightly_gzip", line 143, in ?
> >     main()
> >   File "/usr/local/mailman/cron/nightly_gzip", line 114, in main
> >     time.strptime(f, '%Y-%B.txt')
> >AttributeError: strptime
> 
> Once a day at 3:27 AM.

Upgrade to Python 1.5.2.  Mandrake is similar enough to RedHat that I think
you can do what I did, and grab the python RPM from the RedHat 6.1 ftp site.


-- 
Paul Tomblin, not speaking for anybody.
SETI at Home:  Finally a *good* way to impress Jodie Foster
http://www.setiathome.ssl.berkeley.edu/



From ybd at gxn.net  Tue Nov 30 13:34:04 1999
From: ybd at gxn.net (Yohannes Dimberu)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 12:34:04 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] reply to headers
Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.19991130122627.03afe9d0@staff-pop.global.net.uk>

Is there a way to disable the reply-to header in a mailman list rather than 
Bcc-ing messages.

Yohannes 



From ptomblin at xcski.com  Tue Nov 30 14:33:23 1999
From: ptomblin at xcski.com (Paul Tomblin)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 08:33:23 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] reply to headers
In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.19991130122627.03afe9d0@staff-pop.global.net.uk>; from Yohannes Dimberu on Tue, Nov 30, 1999 at 12:34:04PM +0000
References: <4.2.0.58.19991130122627.03afe9d0@staff-pop.global.net.uk>
Message-ID: <19991130083323.A1280@xcski.com>

Quoting Yohannes Dimberu (ybd at gxn.net):
> Is there a way to disable the reply-to header in a mailman list rather than 
> Bcc-ing messages.

I'm not exactly sure what you mean.  If you mean that you don't want a
Reply-To pointing back to the list, then you control that with "Are replies to
a post directed to the original post or to the list?" checkbox on the General
Options page.  If it's set to "Poster", then no Reply-To is added.

-- 
Paul Tomblin, not speaking for anybody.
SETI at Home:  Finally a *good* way to impress Jodie Foster
http://www.setiathome.ssl.berkeley.edu/



From anton at mymlan.lifix.fi  Tue Nov 30 16:32:59 1999
From: anton at mymlan.lifix.fi (Anton Gyllenberg)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 17:32:59 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] HOWTO - EXTERNAL Archiver 
In-Reply-To: Allen's message of "Tue, 30 Nov 1999 03:03:58 +1030."
             <199911291633.DAA26644@harper.gist.net.au> 
Message-ID: <E11spH1-0006Yg-00@mymlan.lifix.fi>

Could someone tell me the (obvious?) reason why list management software
needs to have external archiver capabilities? Is it not more natural to
let the archiver archive any mail sent to a specific mail address? Then
you just add the archive's address to the list.

--
Anton Gyllenberg



From jfesler at gigo.com  Tue Nov 30 16:36:34 1999
From: jfesler at gigo.com (jfesler at gigo.com)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 07:36:34 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] HOWTO - EXTERNAL Archiver 
In-Reply-To: <E11spH1-0006Yg-00@mymlan.lifix.fi>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.9911300735200.36918-100000@heaven.gigo.com>

> Could someone tell me the (obvious?) reason why list management software
> needs to have external archiver capabilities? Is it not more natural to
> let the archiver archive any mail sent to a specific mail address? Then
> you just add the archive's address to the list.

For some people, the convenience of having it as part of the package is a
plus.  Mailman is able to do it as part of an integrated system (including
keeping the private lists'  archives limited to just the subscribers).





From claw at kanga.nu  Tue Nov 30 16:51:05 1999
From: claw at kanga.nu (claw at kanga.nu)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 07:51:05 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] HOWTO - EXTERNAL Archiver 
In-Reply-To: Message from Anton Gyllenberg <anton@mymlan.lifix.fi> 
   of "Tue, 30 Nov 1999 17:32:59 +0200." <E11spH1-0006Yg-00@mymlan.lifix.fi> 
Message-ID: <E11spYX-0007MV-00@koala.kanga.nu>

On Tue, 30 Nov 1999 17:32:59 +0200 
Anton Gyllenberg <anton at mymlan.lifix.fi> wrote:

> Could someone tell me the (obvious?) reason why list management
> software needs to have external archiver capabilities? 

It doesn't.  It is merely that the value of a list with a good
archive is vastly improved, so the two tend to get bundled.

> Is it not more natural to let the archiver archive any mail sent
> to a specific mail address? Then you just add the archive's
> address to the list.

That is one approach -- and has both advantages and disadvantages.
For one it archives the messages as the list sneds them, not as it
receives them.  In a number of cases this is not desirable.

-- 
J C Lawrence                                 Home: claw at kanga.nu
----------(*)                              Other: coder at kanga.nu
--=| A man is as sane as he is dangerous to his environment |=--



From rniess at netserver3.otr.usm.edu  Tue Nov 30 18:02:49 1999
From: rniess at netserver3.otr.usm.edu (Rick Niess)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 11:02:49 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] problems with mail delivery
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.10.9911291605140.22779-100000@www-aalborg.adikent.analog.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.10.9911301055100.27149-100000@netserver3.otr.usm.edu>

On Mon, 29 Nov 1999, Joachim Dahl wrote:
> I have installed mailman v.1.1 on a Linux box. I just followed the default
<snip>
> >From /home/mailman/logs/smtp-failures:
> Nov 26 12:06:54 1999 TrySMTPDelivery:
> Mailman.pythonlib.smtplib.SMTPRecipientsRefused  / 
> {'john.doe at analog.com': (550, '<john.doe at analog.com>... Relaying denied')}
> (dequeued)
<snip>
> I can send mail to john.doe using sendmail, so the mail system seems to be
> working globally (and
> I can register locally with confirmation via email).

     It doesn't look like you're using Sendmail so I can't give you
explicit instructions on how to fix this.  I can, however, tell you what
appears to be wrong.  

     Many MTA's these days have a lot of spam-reducing security features
disabled.  One of these is to restrict mail relaying (connecting to an
SMTP server and sending a message that has both the To an From fields as
non-local or off-site addresses).

     I suspect that either your MTA is setup to not allow relaying at all
or it isn't setup to allow it for the "preferred" host that you're using
at the bottom of the general list config.  Or something like that. (?)  
I'd suggest looking into your MTA's docs to see what it says about
relaying and what has to be enabled to allow restricted relaying, etc.  
If need be, set it up so that all mail coming local (inside this host)
SMTP connections can relay but nothing else can.  Just my $.02...

						~ Rick ~
--
.oooO "Man with closed Oooo.    Rick C. Niess
(   )   mouth gathers  (   )    University of Southern Miss.
 \ (      no foot!"     ) /     resnet at usm.edu
--\ )------------------(_/-------------------------------





From pjh at mccc.edu  Tue Nov 30 20:24:32 1999
From: pjh at mccc.edu (Pete Holsberg)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 14:24:32 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Removing a list
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.10.9911301423540.23426-100000@tecoma.mccc.edu>

Is there a command to remove a list, or do we just have to
troll and delete?

Thanks,
Pete




From vic at vgg.sci.uma.es  Tue Nov 30 20:26:55 1999
From: vic at vgg.sci.uma.es (Victoriano Giralt)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 20:26:55 +0100 (MET)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Removing a list
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.10.9911301423540.23426-100000@tecoma.mccc.edu>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.04.9911302026340.10794-100000@vgg.sci.uma.es>

On Tue, 30 Nov 1999, Pete Holsberg wrote:

> Is there a command to remove a list, or do we just have to
> troll and delete?

$prefix/bin/rmlist listname

--
Victoriano Giralt
Systems Programmer
Central Computing Facility
University of M?laga
SPAIN




From andreas at mtg.co.at  Tue Nov 30 20:32:44 1999
From: andreas at mtg.co.at (Andreas Kostyrka)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 20:32:44 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Removing a list
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.10.9911301423540.23426-100000@tecoma.mccc.edu>; from pjh@mccc.edu on Tue, Nov 30, 1999 at 02:24:32PM -0500
References: <Pine.GSO.4.10.9911301423540.23426-100000@tecoma.mccc.edu>
Message-ID: <19991130203244.D5396@mtg.co.at>

On Tue, Nov 30, 1999 at 02:24:32PM -0500, Pete Holsberg wrote:
> Is there a command to remove a list, or do we just have to
> troll and delete?
rmlist

Andreas
-- 
Andreas Kostyrka                     | andreas at mtg.co.at
phone: +43/1/7070750                 | phone: +43/676/4091256   
MTG Handelsges.m.b.H.                | fax:   +43/1/7065299
Raiffeisenstr. 16/9                  | 2320 Zwoelfaxing AUSTRIA        




From mfidelman at civicnet.org  Tue Nov 30 20:34:13 1999
From: mfidelman at civicnet.org (Miles Fidelman)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 14:34:13 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] maturity of mailman?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.10.9911301423540.23426-100000@tecoma.mccc.edu>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.05.9911301432450.25550-100000@ntcorp.dn.net>

I've been considering using mailman to replace majordomo.

But... from my experiences so far in playing with mailman, and the traffic
on this list, I'm getting the sense that the software is still immature
and buggy.

What kinds of experiences can people share as to the reliability and
robustness of mailman?

Thanks!

Miles Fidelman

**************************************************************************
The Center for Civic Networking 	    PO Box 600618
Miles R. Fidelman, President &		    Newtonville, MA 02460-0006
Director, Municipal Telecommunications 
Strategies Program			    617-558-3698 fax: 617-630-8946
mfidelman at civicnet.org	 		    http://civic.net/ccn.html

Information Infrastructure: Public Spaces for the 21st Century 
Let's Start With: Internet Wall-Plugs Everywhere 
Say It Often, Say It Loud: "I Want My Internet!" 
**************************************************************************




From pjh at mccc.edu  Tue Nov 30 20:44:07 1999
From: pjh at mccc.edu (Pete Holsberg)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 14:44:07 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Admin password
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.10.9911301443390.25409-100000@tecoma.mccc.edu>

Where is the admin password stored for a mailing list?

Thanks,
Pete




From pjh at mccc.edu  Tue Nov 30 20:44:56 1999
From: pjh at mccc.edu (Pete Holsberg)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 14:44:56 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Removing a list
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.04.9911302026340.10794-100000@vgg.sci.uma.es>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.10.9911301444340.25421-100000@tecoma.mccc.edu>

On Tue, 30 Nov 1999, Victoriano Giralt wrote:

> On Tue, 30 Nov 1999, Pete Holsberg wrote:
> 
> > Is there a command to remove a list, or do we just have to
> > troll and delete?
> 
> $prefix/bin/rmlist listname

<blush> gracias!

Pete




From lindsey at ncsa.uiuc.edu  Tue Nov 30 21:50:33 1999
From: lindsey at ncsa.uiuc.edu (Christopher Lindsey)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 14:50:33 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] maturity of mailman?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.05.9911301432450.25550-100000@ntcorp.dn.net> from "Miles Fidelman" at Nov 30, 99 02:34:13 pm
Message-ID: <199911302050.OAA20619@ferret.ncsa.uiuc.edu>

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From claw at kanga.nu  Tue Nov 30 22:48:01 1999
From: claw at kanga.nu (claw at kanga.nu)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 13:48:01 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] maturity of mailman? 
In-Reply-To: Message from Miles Fidelman <mfidelman@civicnet.org> 
   of "Tue, 30 Nov 1999 14:34:13 EST." <Pine.GSO.4.05.9911301432450.25550-100000@ntcorp.dn.net> 
Message-ID: <E11sv7x-0008Rr-00@koala.kanga.nu>

On Tue, 30 Nov 1999 14:34:13 -0500 (EST) 
Miles Fidelman <mfidelman at civicnet.org> wrote:

> I've been considering using mailman to replace majordomo.
> But... from my experiences so far in playing with mailman, and the
> traffic on this list, I'm getting the sense that the software is
> still immature and buggy.

"Immature" and "buggy" are subjective measurements.  You are also
seeing a fair bit of traffic from people running the current CVS
version, or the latest patchset.  It should be no surprise in an
Open Source project that bugs happen at the bleeding edge where your 
users are your testers.

That all said, I have recommended and run mailMan as the list
processor of choice at a number of companies with non-trivial mail
rates both in volume (one averaged over 100,000 _inbound_ messages
per day across all lists) and significance (eg Board of Directors
list, Investors, etc).  MailMan functioned quite well under that
load.

Now, as for Majordomo....

> What kinds of experiences can people share as to the reliability
> and robustness of mailman?

There remain performance problems with MailMan with high inbound
mail rates to individual lists.  This has been significantly
improved, but remains an issue.  

The internal archiving supports are best turned off.

I've never known it to lose a message.

Bounce handling is still a pain.  Procmail/Maildrop is your friend.

Choice of MTA is significant.  Avoid sendmail.

-- 
J C Lawrence                                 Home: claw at kanga.nu
----------(*)                              Other: coder at kanga.nu
--=| A man is as sane as he is dangerous to his environment |=--



From bwarsaw at cnri.reston.va.us  Tue Nov 30 22:52:33 1999
From: bwarsaw at cnri.reston.va.us (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 16:52:33 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Weird errors
References: <19991130170909.R8374@tertius.net.au>
Message-ID: <14404.18209.418494.28633@anthem.cnri.reston.va.us>

>>>>> "BO" == Bek Oberin <gossamer at tertius.net.au> writes:

    BO> We have mail posted from a web form directly  to a mailing
    BO> list and it's all bouncing with bizarre errors.  Here's one:

How exactly do you do this?  The only way I can see this happening is
if your message is missing both the Sender: and From: headers and has
no envelope either.

-Barry



From pjh at mccc.edu  Tue Nov 30 23:01:54 1999
From: pjh at mccc.edu (Pete Holsberg)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 17:01:54 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] <sigh> Another problem!
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.10.9911301645230.542-100000@tecoma.mccc.edu>

I just created a new mailing list and I cannot log in as
administrator!

How can I change the password?

There's a weakness in MM: it really should ask for the
password twice, just in case!

Thanks,
Pete




From ricardo at miss-janet.com  Tue Nov 30 23:05:43 1999
From: ricardo at miss-janet.com (Ricardo Kustner)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 23:05:43 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] <sigh> Another problem!
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.10.9911301645230.542-100000@tecoma.mccc.edu>; from pjh@mccc.edu on Tue, Nov 30, 1999 at 05:01:54PM -0500
References: <Pine.GSO.4.10.9911301645230.542-100000@tecoma.mccc.edu>
Message-ID: <19991130230543.A10905@miss-janet.com>

Hi,

On Tue, Nov 30, 1999 at 05:01:54PM -0500, Pete Holsberg wrote:
> I just created a new mailing list and I cannot log in as
> administrator!
> How can I change the password?
> There's a weakness in MM: it really should ask for the
> password twice, just in case!

did you receive an email about the list having been created?
if i'm not mistaken, the password is being send with that email

Ricardo.

--




From pjh at mccc.edu  Tue Nov 30 23:23:58 1999
From: pjh at mccc.edu (Pete Holsberg)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 17:23:58 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] <sigh> Another problem!
In-Reply-To: <19991130230543.A10905@miss-janet.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.10.9911301723380.1779-100000@tecoma.mccc.edu>

On Tue, 30 Nov 1999, Ricardo Kustner wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> On Tue, Nov 30, 1999 at 05:01:54PM -0500, Pete Holsberg wrote:
> > I just created a new mailing list and I cannot log in as
> > administrator!
> > How can I change the password?
> > There's a weakness in MM: it really should ask for the
> > password twice, just in case!
> 
> did you receive an email about the list having been created?
> if i'm not mistaken, the password is being send with that email

Yes. That's the password I tried.

Thanks,
Pete




From lindsey at ncsa.uiuc.edu  Tue Nov 30 23:37:25 1999
From: lindsey at ncsa.uiuc.edu (Christopher Lindsey)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 16:37:25 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] <sigh> Another problem!
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.10.9911301645230.542-100000@tecoma.mccc.edu> from "Pete Holsberg" at Nov 30, 99 05:01:54 pm
Message-ID: <199911302237.QAA21207@ferret.ncsa.uiuc.edu>

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From wheakory at isu.edu  Tue Nov 30 23:45:45 1999
From: wheakory at isu.edu (Kory Wheatley)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 15:45:45 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailer
Message-ID: <38445399.44E04208@isu.edu>

What is the best Mailer agent to use with Mailman. Right now I am using
sendmail and it seems to be fine.
 Also when I send a message to one of my mailing lists I would like to
change the  To: heading field to another mailing list name or Reply to:
to other mailing list address. Does anyone know where to change this in
the python code.

--
Kory Wheatley              Office Phone 236-3874
Computing & Communication
Academic Computing Analyst sr.

Everything you do must point to him.





From claw at kanga.nu  Tue Nov 30 23:59:15 1999
From: claw at kanga.nu (claw at kanga.nu)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 14:59:15 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailer 
In-Reply-To: Message from Kory Wheatley <wheakory@isu.edu> 
   of "Tue, 30 Nov 1999 15:45:45 MST." <38445399.44E04208@isu.edu> 
Message-ID: <E11swEt-0000AK-00@koala.kanga.nu>

On Tue, 30 Nov 1999 15:45:45 -0700 
Kory Wheatley <wheakory at isu.edu> wrote:

> What is the best Mailer agent to use with Mailman. Right now I am
> using sendmail and it seems to be fine.  

Sendmail works, but does not perform well.  It is a very
(unnecessarily) complex piece of software which has a long history
of security problem which encourage me to avoid it.  Other possible
choices for an MTA enclude Exim, Postfix, and QMail.

If you look back in the archives for this list a couple weeks ago,
you'll find a fairly thorough coverage of the reasons for making the 
various choices,  My own preference is Exim, Barry's preference is
Postfix, others manage to suffer Dan Bernstein and choose QMail.  

They all work equally well -- which is to say, far better than
Sendmail.

-- 
J C Lawrence                                 Home: claw at kanga.nu
----------(*)                              Other: coder at kanga.nu
--=| A man is as sane as he is dangerous to his environment |=--