From darren at jasper.somtel.com  Fri Jan  1 17:57:07 1999
From: darren at jasper.somtel.com (Darren Henderson)
Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1999 11:57:07 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] bad address is stuck
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.03.9901011111270.10571-100000@jasper.somtel.com>

When I originally set up mailman I pulled in some existing lists, the
files used for the membership lists had this string:

(Only addresses below this line can be automatically removed)

Unfortunaletly I didnt remove this and they got into the mailman lists and
kind of messed up the admin pages and could not be deleted from there.
With some help and some python sessions I was able to get those addresses
out of my membership lists...or so it appeared.

The last few months I've found the appended message in my mailbox when the
monthly stuff goes out. I grepped the mailman directory and find that
address in two of the list's config.db. However they're not showing up on
the admin pages.

How do I get rid of these?

A future enhancement that would keep these bogus addresses out of the list
would be benificial:)


______________________________________________________________________
Darren Henderson                              darren at jasper.somtel.com

                   Help fight junk e-mail, visit http://www.cauce.org/


From MAILER-DAEMON  Fri Jan  1 11:00:25 1999
From: MAILER-DAEMON (Mail Delivery Subsystem)
Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1999 05:00:25 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Returned mail: <(Only addresses below this line can be automatically
    removed)>... User unknown
Message-ID: <199901011000.FAB10052@jasper.somtel.com>

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From nathan at robotics.net  Fri Jan  1 18:48:40 1999
From: nathan at robotics.net (Nathan Stratton)
Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1999 12:48:40 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Blocking posts based on keywords
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.03.9901011111270.10571-100000@jasper.somtel.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.05.9901011245570.8862-100000@skipper.robotics.net>


Is there a way to filter all mail sent to a list and if it contains any
of the words listed it, sends it to the admin to be approved? I.E. I want
to block post people send to the list asking to be removed, or containing
profanity, or with vacation programs.


--
Check out the new CLEC mailing list at http://www.robotics.net/clec
><>
Nathan Stratton				Telecom & ISP Consulting
http://www.robotics.net	 		nathan at robotics.net




From bwarsaw at cnri.reston.va.us  Sat Jan  2 00:44:37 1999
From: bwarsaw at cnri.reston.va.us (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1999 18:44:37 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Blocking posts based on keywords
References: <Pine.BSF.4.03.9901011111270.10571-100000@jasper.somtel.com>
	<Pine.BSF.4.05.9901011245570.8862-100000@skipper.robotics.net>
Message-ID: <13965.24037.459682.926769@anthem.cnri.reston.va.us>

>>>>> "NS" == Nathan Stratton <nathan at robotics.net> writes:

    NS> Is there a way to filter all mail sent to a list and if it
    NS> contains any of the words listed it, sends it to the admin to
    NS> be approved? I.E. I want to block post people send to the list
    NS> asking to be removed, or containing profanity, or with
    NS> vacation programs.

There is currently some support for blocking administrivia sent to the 
general list, e.g. someone sending a message with the word
`unsubscribe'.

There is some support in scripts/post to pass incoming messages
through a filter program of your choosing, but it's primitive and
hasn't been well-tested AFAIK.  Take a look at scripts/post for
details -- to hook in your filter program, you'll probably need to set
DEFAULT_FILTER_PROG in Mailman/mm_cfg.py, and this will affect all the 
lists at your site.

This could use some fleshing out: it might be worthwhile to have a
per-list filter; it might be useful to allow list admins to choose
from a list of available filters provided by the site admin; it would
definitely be useful for the interface between scripts/post and the
filters to allow for things like "the filter wants to cancel the post" 
or "the filter wants to hold the post for approval".

-Barry



From bwarsaw at cnri.reston.va.us  Sat Jan  2 21:45:00 1999
From: bwarsaw at cnri.reston.va.us (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1999 15:45:00 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] bad address is stuck
References: <Pine.BSF.4.03.9901011111270.10571-100000@jasper.somtel.com>
Message-ID: <13966.34124.718523.177254@anthem.cnri.reston.va.us>


>>>>> "DH" == Darren Henderson <darren at jasper.somtel.com> writes:

    DH> When I originally set up mailman I pulled in some existing
    DH> lists, the files used for the membership lists had this
    DH> string:

    DH> (Only addresses below this line can be automatically removed)

    DH> Unfortunaletly I didnt remove this and they got into the
    DH> mailman lists and kind of messed up the admin pages and could
    DH> not be deleted from there.  With some help and some python
    DH> sessions I was able to get those addresses out of my
    DH> membership lists...or so it appeared.

    DH> The last few months I've found the appended message in my
    DH> mailbox when the monthly stuff goes out. I grepped the mailman
    DH> directory and find that address in two of the list's
    DH> config.db. However they're not showing up on the admin pages.

    DH> How do I get rid of these?

    DH> A future enhancement that would keep these bogus addresses out
    DH> of the list would be benificial:)

Mailman 1.0b7 should be better at keeping such bogus addresses from
getting into the list in the first place.  I've added two new scripts
bin/list_members and bin/remove_members which can be used from the
command line to get rid of these addresses once and for all.  I don't
know how that address would suddenly show up again on your list.

Let me know if these scripts are useful.

Thanks,
-Barry

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From francis at compsoc.man.ac.uk  Mon Jan  4 17:25:13 1999
From: francis at compsoc.man.ac.uk (Francis Cook)
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 16:25:13 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Sequence numbers
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.03.9901041607330.5285-100000@mrtall.compsoc.man.ac.uk>

Hi,

I was wondering if there was a way of putting a sequence number on the
subject line of the list messages. The system we have been using is that
every mail message gets a sequence number put in the header or subject
line so we can refer to it easily eg:

[maillist msg: 1]
[maillist msg: 2]
etc...

How would I go about doing this in Mailman ? I have found some attributes
in HyperArch called msgid and sequence, would these do it, if put in the
subject line like:

maillist %(msgid)s

Any help would be appreciated.

Francis

--

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Francis Cook                        email: francisc at cs.man.ac.uk
Research Associate - MINT group            francis at man.compsoc.org.uk
Computer Science, Manchester University
Phone +44(0)161 275 6270
(CompSoc Secretary)                 web:   www.man.compsoc.org.uk/~francis
--------------------------------------------------------------------------




From nathan at cs.man.ac.uk  Tue Jan  5 12:51:23 1999
From: nathan at cs.man.ac.uk (Nathan Messer)
Date: Tue, 05 Jan 1999 11:51:23 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archive editing
Message-ID: <3691FCBB.28963042@cs.man.ac.uk>

Is there any way for messages in the archives to be removed, either
through the web interface, or by hand from the archives? I'm interested
in doing this in order to be able removed auto-generated error messages
and the like from a list archive.



From andy at nachoz.com  Tue Jan  5 22:06:55 1999
From: andy at nachoz.com (Andy Harrison)
Date: Tue, 05 Jan 1999 16:06:55 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] MailMan configuration problem
Message-ID: <XFMail.990105160655.andy@nachoz.com>

I just installed MailMan 1.0b6.  I follow the instructions very carefully and
they're quite clear. However, when it actually comes to accessing the list that
I create via web browser, http://mydomain.com/mailman/listinfo/testlist, it
fails: 

/var/log/httpd/error_log: 
[Tue Jan 5 14:28:32 1999] access to /home/mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo failed \
for my.ip.addr.here, reason: Premature end of script headers 

    Anyone else encountered this?

Red Hat 5.1, Apache 1.2.6.  

Oh, and I added the necessary info to srm.conf, as well as adding to the
access.conf the following, which didn't change anything after I restarted httpd:

<Directory /home/mailman/cgi-bin>
AllowOverride None
Options ExecCGI
</Directory>


---------------------------------
E-Mail:  Andy Harrison <andy at nachoz.com>
Date:  05-Jan-99
Time:  14:50:24

This message was sent by XFMail
---------------------------------



From andy at nachoz.com  Wed Jan  6 19:23:41 1999
From: andy at nachoz.com (Andy Harrison)
Date: Wed, 06 Jan 1999 13:23:41 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] MailMan configuration problem
In-Reply-To: <XFMail.990105160655.andy@nachoz.com>
Message-ID: <XFMail.990106132341.andy@nachoz.com>

I just upgraded to the newer version.  No change.  I create a test list and
when I attemp to access it via the web: [Wed Jan  6 13:21:14 1999] access to
/home/mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo failed for my.ip.addy.here, reason: Premature end
of script headers



On 05-Jan-99 Andy Harrison wrote:
> I just installed MailMan 1.0b6.  I follow the instructions very carefully and
> they're quite clear. However, when it actually comes to accessing the list
> that
> I create via web browser, http://mydomain.com/mailman/listinfo/testlist, it
> fails: 
> 
> /var/log/httpd/error_log: 
> [Tue Jan 5 14:28:32 1999] access to /home/mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo failed \
> for my.ip.addr.here, reason: Premature end of script headers 
> 
>     Anyone else encountered this?
> 
> Red Hat 5.1, Apache 1.2.6.  
> 
> Oh, and I added the necessary info to srm.conf, as well as adding to the
> access.conf the following, which didn't change anything after I restarted
> httpd:
> 
> <Directory /home/mailman/cgi-bin>
> AllowOverride None
> Options ExecCGI
> </Directory>
> 
> 
> ---------------------------------
> E-Mail:  Andy Harrison <andy at nachoz.com>
> Date:  05-Jan-99
> Time:  14:50:24
> 
> This message was sent by XFMail
> ---------------------------------
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users maillist  -  Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users

---------------------------------
E-Mail:  Andy Harrison <andy at nachoz.com>
Date:  06-Jan-99
Time:  13:21:59

This message was sent by XFMail
---------------------------------



From bwarsaw at cnri.reston.va.us  Thu Jan  7 00:03:37 1999
From: bwarsaw at cnri.reston.va.us (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 18:03:37 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Sequence numbers
References: <Pine.LNX.4.03.9901041607330.5285-100000@mrtall.compsoc.man.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <13971.60361.919274.155377@anthem.cnri.reston.va.us>

>>>>> "FC" == Francis Cook <francis at compsoc.man.ac.uk> writes:

    FC> I was wondering if there was a way of putting a sequence
    FC> number on the subject line of the list messages. The system we
    FC> have been using is that every mail message gets a sequence
    FC> number put in the header or subject line so we can refer to it
    FC> easily eg:

    | [maillist msg: 1]
    | [maillist msg: 2]
    | etc...

    FC> How would I go about doing this in Mailman ?

There's no support for this, but it probably wouldn't be too hard to
hack in.  You'd probably add this to MailList.Post(), and you'd
probably want to add a new attribute to the class which is the
sequence number.  This would get incremented for every message and
saved to the list's database file.

-Barry



From bwarsaw at cnri.reston.va.us  Thu Jan  7 00:25:45 1999
From: bwarsaw at cnri.reston.va.us (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 18:25:45 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] MailMan configuration problem
References: <XFMail.990105160655.andy@nachoz.com>
Message-ID: <13971.61689.991006.492835@anthem.cnri.reston.va.us>

>>>>> "AH" == Andy Harrison <andy at nachoz.com> writes:

    AH> I just installed MailMan 1.0b6.  I follow the instructions
    AH> very carefully and they're quite clear. However, when it
    AH> actually comes to accessing the list that I create via web
    AH> browser, http://mydomain.com/mailman/listinfo/testlist, it
    AH> fails:

    AH> /var/log/httpd/error_log: [Tue Jan 5 14:28:32 1999] access to
    AH> /home/mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo failed \ for my.ip.addr.here,
    AH> reason: Premature end of script headers

    AH>     Anyone else encountered this?

    AH> Red Hat 5.1, Apache 1.2.6.

Check your syslog file.  What's probably happening is that the gid
compiled into your Mailman CGI wrapper is incorrect and the wrapper is 
exiting.  This error will show up in syslog.

You'll need to figure out the gid that CGI scripts get executed as
(check your Apache config files) and re-configure Mailman using
--with-cgi-gid option, rebuild and re-install.

-Barry



From klm at cnri.reston.va.us  Thu Jan  7 00:39:37 1999
From: klm at cnri.reston.va.us (Ken Manheimer)
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 18:39:37 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Sequence numbers
In-Reply-To: <13971.60361.919274.155377@anthem.cnri.reston.va.us>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.990106182817.11144Q-100000@glyph.cnri.reston.va.us>

On Wed, 6 Jan 1999, Barry A. Warsaw wrote:

> >>>>> "FC" == Francis Cook <francis at compsoc.man.ac.uk> writes:
> 
>     FC> I was wondering if there was a way of putting a sequence
>     FC> number on the subject line of the list messages. The system we
>     FC> have been using is that every mail message gets a sequence
>     FC> number put in the header or subject line so we can refer to it
>     FC> easily eg:
> 
>     | [maillist msg: 1]
>     | [maillist msg: 2]
>     | etc...
> 
>     FC> How would I go about doing this in Mailman ?
> 
> There's no support for this, but it probably wouldn't be too hard to
> hack in.  You'd probably add this to MailList.Post(), and you'd
> probably want to add a new attribute to the class which is the
> sequence number.  This would get incremented for every message and
> saved to the list's database file.

In fact, a new attribute isn't needed - maillists already maintain a
data member, 'post_id', that's incremented with every posting to a list.
It's used particularly for bounced message tracking, but is incremented
in the .Post() routine barry mentions.  And there's also already some
code in .Post() which does some manipulation of the subject line (look
in the routine for the var 'subject_prefix').  It would be trivial to
include the post_id.  Note that since it's a float, to allow for large
numbers, you'll probably want to use something like:

	str(long(self.post_id))[:-1]

to allow for as large floats as there could be, and pull off the 'L' at
the end of the string representation.

Ken






From bwarsaw at cnri.reston.va.us  Thu Jan  7 00:44:22 1999
From: bwarsaw at cnri.reston.va.us (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 18:44:22 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Sequence numbers
References: <13971.60361.919274.155377@anthem.cnri.reston.va.us>
	<Pine.GSO.3.96.990106182817.11144Q-100000@glyph.cnri.reston.va.us>
Message-ID: <13971.62806.258116.502507@anthem.cnri.reston.va.us>

>>>>> "KM" == Ken Manheimer <klm at cnri.reston.va.us> writes:

    KM> In fact, a new attribute isn't needed - maillists already
    KM> maintain a data member, 'post_id', that's incremented with
    KM> every posting to a list.

Thanks Ken, I'd forgotten about that!
    
    KM> Note that since it's a float, to allow
    KM> for large numbers, you'll probably want to use something like:

    KM> 	str(long(self.post_id))[:-1]

    KM> to allow for as large floats as there could be, and pull off
    KM> the 'L' at the end of the string representation.

Wow!  That's gotta be one popular list!  And I thought I had a problem
with 1000 messages in my Inbox.  :-)

-Barry



From klm at cnri.reston.va.us  Thu Jan  7 00:56:36 1999
From: klm at cnri.reston.va.us (Ken Manheimer)
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 18:56:36 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Sequence numbers
In-Reply-To: <13971.62806.258116.502507@anthem.cnri.reston.va.us>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.990106185039.11144S-100000@glyph.cnri.reston.va.us>

>     KM> Note that since it's a float, to allow
>     KM> for large numbers, you'll probably want to use something like:
> 
>     KM> 	str(long(self.post_id))[:-1]
> 
>     KM> to allow for as large floats as there could be, and pull off
>     KM> the 'L' at the end of the string representation.
> 
> Wow!  That's gotta be one popular list!  And I thought I had a problem
> with 1000 messages in my Inbox.  :-)

The message after message number 2,147,483,647 will probably come soon
after all the computer clocks tick over to jan 1, 2000.  (Or is that,
jan 1, 1900?  I always get those two confused...-)

:-)

Ken




From jwm at plain.co.nz  Thu Jan  7 01:16:37 1999
From: jwm at plain.co.nz (John M)
Date: Thu,  7 Jan 1999 13:16:37 +1300 (NZDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Sequence numbers
Message-ID: <13971.63991.368862.673086@antares.plain.co.nz>

I've just installed mailman 1.0.b6. No problems there. I started off
by making a test list and I'm in the process of poking about the admin 
interface when I notice that a lot of options want you to refer to
various details - the links just take you back to the admin page via
the password page. Are the details part of the documentation on the
TODO list, or is something genuinely wrong?

At any rate, the details that I'm interested in are:

Introductory description: what tags can I use? what other behaviour do 
I need to know about?

Poster or List: I assume that picking poster means that the list won't 
munge the reply to field (this is a good thing), but is it smart
enough to avoid sending you mail twice if you are on the list _and_ in 
the To:/CC:/BCC: fields?

Number of outgoing connections: I presume this means connections to
the SMTP server?

John.




From mkennedy at cs.ucr.edu  Thu Jan  7 02:34:51 1999
From: mkennedy at cs.ucr.edu (Mike Kennedy)
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 17:34:51 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem with 1.0b6
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.05.9901061731230.16747-100000@vdo.ucr.edu>

When I try to access the cgi scripts to look up infomation on the 'test'
list it gives me an internal server error and I get this in the error log
of the server:

[Wed Jan  6 17:01:11 1999] access to /opt/mailman/cgi-bin/admin failed for
shoebox.ucr.edu, reason: Premature end of script headers

Do the cgi-scripts need to be gid owned by the www server? Help please...
thanks.

					Mike

:===========================================================:
: Mike Kennedy			        mkennedy at cs.ucr.edu :
: Systems Administrator                 (909) 787-2946      :
: Computer Science Department                               :
: University of California, Riverside 			    :
:===========================================================:




From Harald.Meland at usit.uio.no  Thu Jan  7 23:46:52 1999
From: Harald.Meland at usit.uio.no (Harald Meland)
Date: 07 Jan 1999 23:46:52 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem with 1.0b6
References: <Pine.LNX.4.05.9901061731230.16747-100000@vdo.ucr.edu>
Message-ID: <d6du2y266qr.fsf@octarine.uio.no>

[Mike Kennedy]

> Do the cgi-scripts need to be gid owned by the www server?

Not exactly.  Quoth the `INSTALL' file:

          % ./configure

      and then run `make install'.  The following options allow you to
      customize your Mailman installation.
[...]
      --with-cgi-gid=<group-or-groups>
            Specify an alternative group for running scripts via the
            CGI wrapper.  <group-or-groups> can be a list of one or
            more integer group ids or symbolic group names.  The first
            value in the list that resolves to an existing group is
            used.  By default, the value is the the list `www www-data
            nobody'.

            The proper value for this is dependent on your Web server
            configuration, and you must get this right, because the
            group id is compiled into the CGI wrapper program for
            added security.  On system using Apache for example, check
            the values for the `Group' option in your httpd.conf file.

You need to figure out what group your web server is running the CGI
scripts under, and then reconfigure, rebuild and reinstall Mailman
accordingly.
-- 
Harald



From deadgrrrl at enchanted.bloodties.com  Thu Jan  7 23:56:43 1999
From: deadgrrrl at enchanted.bloodties.com (deadgrrrl)
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 16:56:43 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] internal server error not covered in readme
Message-ID: <199901072256.QAA24215@enchanted.bloodties.com>

first off...
I'm running RedHat 5.2  linux 2.0.36.
Sendmail version 8.8.7
Apache 1.3.3
python 1.5.1
sed 3.02
perl 5.005_02

--

here is the problem I get.

when going to http://servername.com/lists/admin/testing

I get the following error...

Internal Server Error
The server encountered an internal error or misconfiguration and was unable to complete your request. 
Please contact the server administrator, webmaster at servername.com and inform them of the time the error occurred, and anything you might have done that may have caused the error. 
Premature end of script headers: /home/mailman/cgi-bin/admin



also..
when running perl ./admin from the /home/mailman/cgi-bin directory.. I get the following...

4:44pm root at servername [/home/mailman/cgi-bin]# perl ./admin
Unrecognized character \177 at ./admin line 1.



now.. I've run into similar problems before.. but they were usually caused by script
being written in notepad by my users and then expected to work properly under unix.
it's usually fixed by converting the script text format from dos to unix.
however, since this looks like compiled perl, I can't very well do that :)

thanks in advance for your time.




From Harald.Meland at usit.uio.no  Fri Jan  8 00:12:45 1999
From: Harald.Meland at usit.uio.no (Harald Meland)
Date: 08 Jan 1999 00:12:45 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] internal server error not covered in readme
In-Reply-To: deadgrrrl's message of "Thu, 7 Jan 1999 16:56:43 -0600"
References: <199901072256.QAA24215@enchanted.bloodties.com>
Message-ID: <d6dn23u65jm.fsf@octarine.uio.no>

[deadgrrrl]

> Premature end of script headers: /home/mailman/cgi-bin/admin

This is getting to be a FAQ -- see, for instance,
<URL:http://www.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/1999-January/000249.html>.
for the solution.  And you really should take the time to _read_ the
INSTALL file :)

> also..
> when running perl ./admin from the /home/mailman/cgi-bin directory.. I get the following...
> 
> 4:44pm root at servername [/home/mailman/cgi-bin]# perl ./admin
> Unrecognized character \177 at ./admin line 1.

Well, as cgi-bin/admin isn't a perl script (in fact there are _no_
perl scripts in Mailman) but a compiled C program, you probably would
be a tad better off running just

  $ /home/mailman/cgi-bin/admin

... but it most likely won't _do_ anything (except for exit()ing with
a non-zero value).

> however, since this looks like compiled perl,

Perl, as far as I know, isn't able to "compile" scripts permanently --
any perl script is "compiled" at invocation before the actual
execution of the script.  And "compiled" is nothing like _real_
compilation -- it is more reminiscent to the byte-compiling that exist
for e.g. Python and Emacs Lisp (I've heard).

-- 
Harald



From deadgrrrl at enchanted.bloodties.com  Fri Jan  8 00:24:32 1999
From: deadgrrrl at enchanted.bloodties.com (deadgrrrl)
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 17:24:32 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] internal server error not covered in readme
Message-ID: <199901072324.RAA24665@enchanted.bloodties.com>

--original message--
This is getting to be a FAQ -- see, for instance,
<URL:http://www.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/1999-January/000249.html>.
for the solution.  And you really should take the time to _read_ the
INSTALL file :)
--end of original message--

for the record, I read both the INSTALL and README files, neither mentioned
anyting about this problem.. 
also, I forgot to mention, it's version 1.0b7 that I am running...
but thanks for your prompt reply :P




From jwm at plain.co.nz  Fri Jan  8 00:32:45 1999
From: jwm at plain.co.nz (John M)
Date: Fri,  8 Jan 1999 12:32:45 +1300 (NZDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] internal server error not covered in readme
In-Reply-To: <199901072324.RAA24665@enchanted.bloodties.com>
References: <199901072324.RAA24665@enchanted.bloodties.com>
Message-ID: <13973.17394.469218.994679@antares.plain.co.nz>

deadgrrrl writes:
 > --original message--
 > This is getting to be a FAQ -- see, for instance,
 > <URL:http://www.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/1999-January/000249.html>.
 > for the solution.  And you really should take the time to _read_ the
 > INSTALL file :)
 > --end of original message--
 > 
 > for the record, I read both the INSTALL and README files, neither mentioned
 > anyting about this problem.. 
 > also, I forgot to mention, it's version 1.0b7 that I am running...
 > but thanks for your prompt reply :P

The FAQ like material is hidden away in the PROBLEMS file. Maybe it
should be renamed to FAQ. 

John.



From bwarsaw at cnri.reston.va.us  Fri Jan  8 01:22:21 1999
From: bwarsaw at cnri.reston.va.us (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 19:22:21 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] internal server error not covered in readme
References: <199901072256.QAA24215@enchanted.bloodties.com>
Message-ID: <13973.20413.923213.701312@anthem.cnri.reston.va.us>

>>>>> "deadgrrrl" ==   <deadgrrrl at enchanted.bloodties.com> writes:

    deadgrrrl> perl 5.005_02

What's Perl? :-)

    deadgrrrl> I get the following error...
    deadgrrrl> 
    deadgrrrl> Internal Server Error The server encountered an
    deadgrrrl> internal error or misconfiguration and was unable to
    deadgrrrl> complete your request.  Please contact the server
    deadgrrrl> administrator, webmaster at servername.com and inform them
    deadgrrrl> of the time the error occurred, and anything you might
    deadgrrrl> have done that may have caused the error.  Premature
    deadgrrrl> end of script headers: /home/mailman/cgi-bin/admin

Thanks Harald for following up on this.  Yup it should be a FAQ (I'll
probably rename PROBLEMS to FAQ as John M suggests).

The problem is that the gid you compiled into the C wrappers doesn't
match what your Web server is assigning to CGI programs.  The INSTALL
file does talk about this, but it's obviously too obscure because a
*lot* of people have this problem.  I'll work on rewording this.

I will also mention that I've added a kludge to the C wrapper for the
next release, so that you'll get a better error message than this.
Essentially, the wrapper will return some HTML that explains what's
happening, and where to look for solutions.  I'm hoping that this will 
reduce the frequency with which this problem gets reported to the
list.  Those of you who use the CVS tree, I would love to get some
feedback on this.

As to the specific problem,  You're going to want to re-configure
Mailman using the --with-cgi-gid option, rebuild and re-install.

Hope that helps,
-Barry



From mkennedy at cs.ucr.edu  Fri Jan  8 00:25:23 1999
From: mkennedy at cs.ucr.edu (Mike Kennedy)
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 15:25:23 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] internal server error not covered in readme
In-Reply-To: <199901072256.QAA24215@enchanted.bloodties.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.05.9901071522190.29738-100000@hill.ucr.edu>

> 
> here is the problem I get.
> 
> when going to http://servername.com/lists/admin/testing
> 
> I get the following error...
> 
> Internal Server Error
> The server encountered an internal error or misconfiguration and was unable to complete your request. 
> Please contact the server administrator, webmaster at servername.com and inform them of the time the error occurred, and anything you might have done that may have caused the error. 
> Premature end of script headers: /home/mailman/cgi-bin/admin
> 

This means that probably mailman was expecting a certain web server GID
but it got another one. Look at your logs and see if it wrote an error. If
its like mine I didn't have any mailman stuff being written to logs so 
check your syslog.conf to make sure its send mailman logs.

> 
> also..
> when running perl ./admin from the /home/mailman/cgi-bin directory.. I get the following...
> 
> 4:44pm root at servername [/home/mailman/cgi-bin]# perl ./admin
> Unrecognized character \177 at ./admin line 1.
> 

all the cgi scripts are binaries. You can't run perl on them.






From shaman at progsoc.uts.edu.au  Fri Jan  8 03:57:16 1999
From: shaman at progsoc.uts.edu.au (Shaun Clowes)
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 13:57:16 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Cannot get CGI-BIN to work
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.05.9901081352370.29204-100000@ftoomsh.progsoc.uts.edu.au>

Hi,

I can't get any of the python scripts to do anything (either the C
wrappered ones or the non wrappered ones). If I go to
/usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin (my PREFIX is /usr/local/mailman/) and type
"admin" I get no output at all, is this normal? 

[mailman at heyho cgi-bin]$ ./admin
[mailman at heyho cgi-bin]$ 

The apache error log says
"[Fri Jan  8 11:11:24 1999] [error] [client 203.2.125.3] Premature end of
script headers: /usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo". Does this indicate
my python is incorrectly built? (the test suite for python seems to work
ok). 

Any help is greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Shaun




From jonathan-mailman at NrgUp.Com  Fri Jan  8 05:48:07 1999
From: jonathan-mailman at NrgUp.Com (Jonathan Bradshaw)
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 23:48:07 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Errors running news gateway
Message-ID: <19990107234807.A27623@NrgUp.Com>

I have cron run the news gateway every half hour. Every so often during the
day I see the following:

Exception NotLockedError in <method FileLock.__del__ of FileLock instance at
+8181510> ignored

OR

Exception exceptions.OSError: (2, 'No such file or directory',
+'/var/mailman/locks/gate_lock.rmadg.Garbo.17482') in <method FileLock.__del__
+of FileLock instance at 8181390> ignored

OR

Exception exceptions.ValueError: 'unpack list of wrong size' in <method
+FileLock.__del__ of FileLock instance at 80dddc0> ignored


Should I be concerned about them? It appears to be working correctly.




From jonathan-ezmlm at NrgUp.Com  Fri Jan  8 05:53:04 1999
From: jonathan-ezmlm at NrgUp.Com (Jonathan Bradshaw)
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 23:53:04 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Comments
Message-ID: <19990107235304.A27635@NrgUp.Com>

After looking at mailman to manage my mailing lists I have decided it will
work for most things very well.

I have some comments tho.

Digests: I'd like to be able to set the next issue and volume number from the
admin page. I know you can do this from inside python (and thats what I did)
but it would be good to allow this to be changed elsewhere.

Archiving: Although I'm sure pipermail is nice, MHonArc is nicer (IMHO)
and it would be nice to be able to configure a seperate archiving program
through the admin tool. You would need to set the command to run (which
would have the message on STDIN) and the location of the output archive.
The primary advantage to MHonArc is configurability of the output format and
the ability to handle various MIME types in a reasonable way. Of course, it is
slow :-(

Chained Lists: I have some sub-lists that I don't want people to be able to
subscribe to unless they also subscribe to the master list. Eg: If they
unsubscribe from the master list, it should remove them from the other lists.
Any ideas?

Thanks!

-- 
 Jonathan Bradshaw (Jonathan at NrgUp.Com) | Novell 4.x CNE | Ham Callsign N9OXE
          "...I'm not one of those who think Bill Gates is the devil.
         I simply suspect that if Microsoft ever met up with the devil,
              it wouldn't need an interpreter."  -- Nick Petreley



From scott at chronis.pobox.com  Fri Jan  8 06:19:49 1999
From: scott at chronis.pobox.com (scott cotton)
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 00:19:49 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Errors running news gateway
In-Reply-To: <19990107234807.A27623@NrgUp.Com>; from Jonathan Bradshaw on Thu, Jan 07, 1999 at 11:48:07PM -0500
References: <19990107234807.A27623@NrgUp.Com>
Message-ID: <19990108001949.A29650@chronis.pobox.com>

The locking mechanism in mailman has timeouts associated
with it that are easily changed in the calling program.

Those timeouts default to a value that is good for most
operations, but not for potenitally long-running operations
such as running the mail queue or gating news. 

So those errors do not indicate a failure to perform, but a
(slight) risk of ccorrupting data.  I would suggest that the
files OutgoingQueue.py and GateNews.py be reviewed for their
calls to lockfile(filename) and changing the calls to say
lockfile(filename, 2400) (the 2400 is in secs I think) or
something that gives ample time for the previous program to
complete.  

scott


On Thu, Jan 07, 1999 at 11:48:07PM -0500, Jonathan Bradshaw wrote:
| I have cron run the news gateway every half hour. Every so often during the
| day I see the following:
| 
| Exception NotLockedError in <method FileLock.__del__ of FileLock instance at
| +8181510> ignored
| 
| OR
| 
| Exception exceptions.OSError: (2, 'No such file or directory',
| +'/var/mailman/locks/gate_lock.rmadg.Garbo.17482') in <method FileLock.__del__
| +of FileLock instance at 8181390> ignored
| 
| OR
| 
| Exception exceptions.ValueError: 'unpack list of wrong size' in <method
| +FileLock.__del__ of FileLock instance at 80dddc0> ignored
| 
| 
| Should I be concerned about them? It appears to be working correctly.
| 
| 
| ------------------------------------------------------
| Mailman-Users maillist  -  Mailman-Users at python.org
| http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
| 



From bwarsaw at cnri.reston.va.us  Fri Jan  8 07:41:02 1999
From: bwarsaw at cnri.reston.va.us (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 01:41:02 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Sequence numbers
References: <13971.63991.368862.673086@antares.plain.co.nz>
Message-ID: <13973.43134.852176.312459@anthem.cnri.reston.va.us>

>>>>> "JM" == John M <jwm at plain.co.nz> writes:

    JM> I've just installed mailman 1.0.b6. No problems there. I
    JM> started off by making a test list and I'm in the process of
    JM> poking about the admin interface when I notice that a lot of
    JM> options want you to refer to various details - the links just
    JM> take you back to the admin page via the password page. Are the
    JM> details part of the documentation on the TODO list, or is
    JM> something genuinely wrong?

Do you have cookies disabled?  I see this behavior only when I disable 
cookies.  This forces the admin interface to re-authenticate for every 
query.  Yup, that sucks, and yup I think we can do better.

We probably don't need to authenticate if we're just getting details,
so we can probably ignore the missing cookie data.  I'll look into a
fix for this (too tired right now).

Thanks,
-Barry



From bwarsaw at cnri.reston.va.us  Fri Jan  8 07:42:53 1999
From: bwarsaw at cnri.reston.va.us (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 01:42:53 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem with 1.0b6
References: <Pine.LNX.4.05.9901061731230.16747-100000@vdo.ucr.edu>
Message-ID: <13973.43245.848027.796912@anthem.cnri.reston.va.us>

>>>>> "MK" == Mike Kennedy <mkennedy at cs.ucr.edu> writes:

    MK> When I try to access the cgi scripts to look up infomation on
    MK> the 'test' list it gives me an internal server error and I get
    MK> this in the error log of the server:

    MK> [Wed Jan 6 17:01:11 1999] access to /opt/mailman/cgi-bin/admin
    MK> failed for shoebox.ucr.edu, reason: Premature end of script
    MK> headers

    MK> Do the cgi-scripts need to be gid owned by the www server?
    MK> Help please...  thanks.

Here's the entry from the (new) FAQ file (the PROBLEMS file in your
distribution).

Hope this helps,
-Barry

-------------------- snip snip --------------------
1. If from the web you get "document contains no data"
   If mail isn't getting delivered
   If you see "Premature end of script headers"
   If you see "Mailman CGI error!!!"

      The most likely cause of this is that the GID that is compiled
      into the C wrappers does not match the GID that your Web server
      invokes CGI scripts with.  Note that a similar error could occur
      if your mail system invokes filter programs under a GID that
      does not match the one compiled into the C mail wrapper.

      To fix this you will need to re-configure Mailman using the
      --with-cgi-gid and --with-mail-gid options.  See INSTALL for
      details.

      These errors are logged to syslog and they do not show up in the
      Mailman log files.  Problems with the CGI wrapper do get
      reported in the Web browser though, and include the expected
      GID, so that should help a lot.

      You may want to have syslog running and configured to log the
      mail.error log class somewhere; on Solaris systems, the line

          mail.debug                /var/log/syslog

      causes the messages to go to them in /var/log/syslog, for
      example.  (The distributed syslog.conf forwards the message to
      the loghost, when present.  See the syslog man page for more
      details.)

      If your system is set like this, and you get a failure trying to
      visit the mailman/listinfo web page, and it's due to a UID or
      GID mismatch, then you should get an entry at the end of
      /var/log/syslog identifying the expected and received values.




From andy at nachoz.com  Fri Jan  8 15:07:59 1999
From: andy at nachoz.com (Andy Harrison)
Date: Fri, 08 Jan 1999 09:07:59 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Cannot get CGI-BIN to work
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.05.9901081352370.29204-100000@ftoomsh.progsoc.uts.edu.au>
Message-ID: <XFMail.990108090759.andy@nachoz.com>

Had the same thing.  Do what it says about the ./configure
--with-cgi-gid=<gid here>

Also make sure you do the ./configure and the make install as the mailman
userid you create.



On 08-Jan-99 Shaun Clowes wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I can't get any of the python scripts to do anything (either the C
> wrappered ones or the non wrappered ones). If I go to
> /usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin (my PREFIX is /usr/local/mailman/) and type
> "admin" I get no output at all, is this normal? 
> 
> [mailman at heyho cgi-bin]$ ./admin
> [mailman at heyho cgi-bin]$ 
> 
> The apache error log says
> "[Fri Jan  8 11:11:24 1999] [error] [client 203.2.125.3] Premature end of
> script headers: /usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo". Does this indicate
> my python is incorrectly built? (the test suite for python seems to work
> ok). 
> 
> Any help is greatly appreciated.
> 
> Thanks,
> Shaun
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users maillist  -  Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users

---------------------------------
E-Mail:  Andy Harrison <andy at nachoz.com>
Date:  08-Jan-99
Time:  09:05:40

This message was sent by XFMail
---------------------------------



From delbia at tin.it  Fri Jan  8 15:21:00 1999
From: delbia at tin.it (delbia at tin.it)
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 15:21 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] ImportError in mailman-1.0b6
Message-ID: <19990108144305.DHRA18908.fep04-svc@Inbox>

Hello all!

I've jost tried to install mailman 1.0b6 into a S.u.S.E. 5.2 Linux system, installation
procedure being ok, but if I try to run any program (example "newlist") it returns
a diagnostic, "ImportError: no module named getpass".
I use Python 1.5, installed as found into the S.u.S.E. packages with S.u.S.E. "YAST"
setup tool. Does the error mean that getpass is not present into my Python package?
Or it's a problem in mailman?
Should I reinstall a newer release of Python ?

My knowledge on Python is near zero, even if I'll be glad to learn something about it.

I hope to get help from someone... I was interested to mailman because it's possibility
to be run on "PeaceLink" Italian mail/Web server (http://www.peacelink.it), which is
going to develop another kind of list server instead of the actual one.

Regards.
Roberto




From bwarsaw at cnri.reston.va.us  Fri Jan  8 21:01:42 1999
From: bwarsaw at cnri.reston.va.us (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 15:01:42 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Comments
References: <19990107235304.A27635@NrgUp.Com>
Message-ID: <13974.25638.855077.444352@anthem.cnri.reston.va.us>

>>>>> "JB" == Jonathan Bradshaw <jonathan-ezmlm at nrgup.com> writes:

    JB> After looking at mailman to manage my mailing lists I have
    JB> decided it will work for most things very well.

Cool!

    JB> I have some comments tho.

Bring 'em on!

    JB> Digests: I'd like to be able to set the next issue and volume
    JB> number from the admin page. I know you can do this from inside
    JB> python (and thats what I did) but it would be good to allow
    JB> this to be changed elsewhere.

    JB> Archiving: Although I'm sure pipermail is nice, MHonArc is
    JB> nicer (IMHO) and it would be nice to be able to configure a
    JB> seperate archiving program through the admin tool. You would
    JB> need to set the command to run (which would have the message
    JB> on STDIN) and the location of the output archive.  The primary
    JB> advantage to MHonArc is configurability of the output format
    JB> and the ability to handle various MIME types in a reasonable
    JB> way. Of course, it is slow :-(

Both are good ideas.  For now I've put these on the TODO list.

    JB> Chained Lists: I have some sub-lists that I don't want people
    JB> to be able to subscribe to unless they also subscribe to the
    JB> master list. Eg: If they unsubscribe from the master list, it
    JB> should remove them from the other lists.  Any ideas?

Mailman has what Ken's called `umbrella' lists.  These are lists that
contain other mailing lists as members.  Umbrella lists don't send
password reminders to member address directly, but instead to to an
address derived from the member address.  Does this get you close
enough (you'd put the sub-lists on an umbrella list, and then let
people just subscribe to the sub-lists, as normal).

Another idea is that we could have subscribe/unsubscribe hooks which
would let you call your own Python scripts on these events, but I
can't see that happening for 1.0.

-Barry



From mkennedy at cs.ucr.edu  Fri Jan  8 22:24:35 1999
From: mkennedy at cs.ucr.edu (Mike Kennedy)
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 13:24:35 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Weird behavior in mailman with python
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.05.9901081321460.11558-100000@hill.ucr.edu>

For some reason every time the cron process for the mail-news gateways
runs it goes out of control and creates about 20 python zombies running on
my machine at which point the load average goes above 16 and sendmail
quits working totally defeating the purpose of mailman. Is anyone else
seeing this problem or can suggest a remedy?

:===========================================================:
: Mike Kennedy			        mkennedy at cs.ucr.edu :
: Systems Administrator                 (909) 787-2946      :
: Computer Science Department                               :
: University of California, Riverside 			    :
:===========================================================:





From bwarsaw at cnri.reston.va.us  Fri Jan  8 23:07:18 1999
From: bwarsaw at cnri.reston.va.us (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 17:07:18 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Weird behavior in mailman with python
References: <Pine.LNX.4.05.9901081321460.11558-100000@hill.ucr.edu>
Message-ID: <13974.33174.223045.381034@anthem.cnri.reston.va.us>

>>>>> "MK" == Mike Kennedy <mkennedy at cs.ucr.edu> writes:

    MK> For some reason every time the cron process for the mail-news
    MK> gateways runs it goes out of control and creates about 20
    MK> python zombies running on my machine at which point the load
    MK> average goes above 16 and sendmail quits working totally
    MK> defeating the purpose of mailman. Is anyone else seeing this
    MK> problem or can suggest a remedy?

What version of Mailman are you using?  AFAIK, the latest release
1.0b7 fixes such previously reported problems with the news gateway
code.

-Barry



From Harald.Meland at usit.uio.no  Sat Jan  9 00:37:20 1999
From: Harald.Meland at usit.uio.no (Harald Meland)
Date: 09 Jan 1999 00:37:20 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Trouble getting `member_posting_only' to work
Message-ID: <d6d4sq1z68f.fsf@octarine.uio.no>

Hi,

as of now I'm running Mailman 1.0b7+, and I can't get the
member_posting_only setting to work.

On my test list, I am subscribed with the address
<hmeland at ulrik.uio.no>.  Here are the results of my testing:

Need approval	Sender addr.		    `m_p_o'   `posters'
-------------	------------		    -------   ---------
Yes		hmeland at ulrik.uio.no	    Yes       ""
Yes		hmeland at ulrik.uio.no	    Yes       harald.meland at usit.uio.no
Yes		harald.meland at usit.uio.no   Yes       harald.meland at usit.uio.no
No		harald.meland at usit.uio.no   No	      harald.meland at usit.uio.no

For the messages that needed approval while `posters' was set, the
approval request said:

    Reason held:  Only approved posters may post without moderator
approval.

(note the broken line wrapping)

When `posters' was empty, the approval request said:

    Reason held:  Postings from member addresses only.

even though I indeed was posting from a member address.

All tests were performed with minimal mail messages (Only From: and
Subject: headers, empty body) sent directly by telnetting to the SMTP
port of the machine my Mailman runs on.

Is all this due to some oversight of mine, or is it a bug?
-- 
Harald



From jonathan at NrgUp.Com  Sat Jan  9 05:53:52 1999
From: jonathan at NrgUp.Com (Jonathan Bradshaw)
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 23:53:52 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Digest and regular?
Message-ID: <19990108235352.A16728@NrgUp.Com>

Amazingly enough I have users who want BOTH normal and digested versions of
the same list to the same email address. Is this possible?

-- 
 Jonathan Bradshaw (Jonathan at NrgUp.Com) | Novell 4.x CNE | Ham Callsign N9OXE
          "...I'm not one of those who think Bill Gates is the devil.
         I simply suspect that if Microsoft ever met up with the devil,
              it wouldn't need an interpreter."  -- Nick Petreley



From bwarsaw at cnri.reston.va.us  Sat Jan  9 07:12:40 1999
From: bwarsaw at cnri.reston.va.us (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1999 01:12:40 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] ImportError in mailman-1.0b6
References: <19990108144305.DHRA18908.fep04-svc@Inbox>
Message-ID: <13974.62296.750357.838492@anthem.cnri.reston.va.us>

>>>>> "delbia" ==   <delbia at tin.it> writes:

    delbia> I've jost tried to install mailman 1.0b6 into a
    delbia> S.u.S.E. 5.2 Linux system, installation procedure being
    delbia> ok, but if I try to run any program (example "newlist") it
    delbia> returns a diagnostic, "ImportError: no module named
    delbia> getpass".  I use Python 1.5

Darn.  getpass.py wasn't added to Python until 1.5.1.  In the short
term, see if you can upgrade your Python installation.  If not, I'll
make sure getpass.py is distributed with the next version of Mailman
for Python 1.5 users.

Thanks for the bug report.
-Barry



From bwarsaw at cnri.reston.va.us  Sat Jan  9 07:37:43 1999
From: bwarsaw at cnri.reston.va.us (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1999 01:37:43 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Digest and regular?
References: <19990108235352.A16728@NrgUp.Com>
Message-ID: <13974.63799.486619.986401@anthem.cnri.reston.va.us>

>>>>> "JB" == Jonathan Bradshaw <jonathan at nrgup.com> writes:

    JB> Amazingly enough I have users who want BOTH normal and
    JB> digested versions of the same list to the same email
    JB> address. Is this possible?

No, not currently.  Have you asked any of these users *why* they'd
want to do this?!  Seems like a strange request to me.  ;-)

-Barry



From Harald.Meland at usit.uio.no  Sat Jan  9 16:06:51 1999
From: Harald.Meland at usit.uio.no (Harald Meland)
Date: 09 Jan 1999 16:06:51 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Digest and regular?
In-Reply-To: Jonathan Bradshaw's message of "Fri, 8 Jan 1999 23:53:52 -0500"
References: <19990108235352.A16728@NrgUp.Com>
Message-ID: <d6diueglc38.fsf@octarine.uio.no>

[Jonathan Bradshaw]

> Amazingly enough I have users who want BOTH normal and digested versions of
> the same list to the same email address. Is this possible?

If they really need this _now_, they could kludge their way around it
by subscribing two different addresses that goes into the same
maildrop, and set different subscription options on these.

As for why anyone would want such a thing, I'm coming up blank.
-- 
Harald



From bwarsaw at cnri.reston.va.us  Sat Jan  9 20:48:18 1999
From: bwarsaw at cnri.reston.va.us (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1999 14:48:18 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Logo contest
Message-ID: <13975.45698.360777.704107@anthem.cnri.reston.va.us>

I would like to have a Mailman logo, that would serve a function
similar to Just van Rossum's excellent "Python Powered" logo.  I am
not much of a (visual :-) artist so if I had to do it, I'd probably
hack around with Gimp's logo scripts for an hour or so and come up
with something really cheezy.  So I figured I'd open up a logo
contents with y'all to tap the fast energies and talents of our
community.

See http://www.python.org/psa/Logo.html for the logos that Just came
up with for Python.  Here are my requirements:

- The phrase should be "Delivered by Mailman"

- We should have a large logo and a small logo, of approximately the
  sizes Just chose, but I'm not as concerned about animated versions.

- I'm thinking that the background should be a simple caricature of an 
  envelope, either of the obverse side (with a stamp in the upper left 
  corner), or the reverse side, with flap lines.  This is just a
  suggestion.

- Colors and fonts are up to you, but readability is of utmost
  importance.

- GIF is probably the best format.

- You will have to GPL your logo, and be willing to assign it to the
  FSF (and probably have your employer do the same).

Send your submissions to me -- MIME is fine.  I'll post them on the
Web so we can all see and vote on them.  The winner gets his or her
little chunk of net.immortality and the eternal thanks of Mailman
users for years to come.

I would like to have a logo for the 1.0 release, which I think will
realistically be end-of-January.

Thanks,
-Barry




From jonathan at NrgUp.Com  Sun Jan 10 17:40:46 1999
From: jonathan at NrgUp.Com (Jonathan Bradshaw)
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 11:40:46 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Optimizing mailman deliveries
Message-ID: <19990110114046.A143@NrgUp.Com>

There are various settings that seem to effect how mailman batches deliveries.
However, I can't seem to find anything that gives me an overview of the
"method" to this implementation.

I understand that mailman was designed with the (inefficient) sendmail
system and it may make sense for that but for those of us using qmail or
(soon) postfix/vmailer are there guidelines for how I might make sure
the delivery method is optimized for those environments?

Thanks!

-- 
 Jonathan Bradshaw (Jonathan at NrgUp.Com) | Novell 4.x CNE | Ham Callsign N9OXE
          "...I'm not one of those who think Bill Gates is the devil.
         I simply suspect that if Microsoft ever met up with the devil,
              it wouldn't need an interpreter."  -- Nick Petreley



From jlewis at prospace.org  Mon Jan 11 04:53:51 1999
From: jlewis at prospace.org (John Lewis)
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 22:53:51 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] 1.0b7 unmoderated list requiring approvals...
Message-ID: <4.1.19990110225344.00c8f350@www.arachnerd.com>

Greetings, I just upgraded to 1.0b7, and even though, in the privacy
section of the list admin setup, I have: 
 Must posts be approved by an administrator?  set to NO, and
Restrict posting privilege to list members? set to YES

The list admin still gets approval messages from posts by list members?

I've resubmitted the settings twice to see if that fixed it, to no avail.
What am I missing here?  Is it me, or b7?

Thanks.


John N. Lewis
ProSpace Webmaster



From jwm at plain.co.nz  Mon Jan 11 05:17:51 1999
From: jwm at plain.co.nz (John M)
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 17:17:51 +1300 (NZDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Sequence numbers
In-Reply-To: <13973.43134.852176.312459@anthem.cnri.reston.va.us>
References: <13971.63991.368862.673086@antares.plain.co.nz>
	<13973.43134.852176.312459@anthem.cnri.reston.va.us>
Message-ID: <13977.30364.216948.737592@antares.plain.co.nz>

Barry A. Warsaw writes:
 > 
 > >>>>> "JM" == John M <jwm at plain.co.nz> writes:
 > 
 >     JM> I've just installed mailman 1.0.b6. No problems there. I
 >     JM> started off by making a test list and I'm in the process of
 >     JM> poking about the admin interface when I notice that a lot of
 >     JM> options want you to refer to various details - the links just
 >     JM> take you back to the admin page via the password page. Are the
 >     JM> details part of the documentation on the TODO list, or is
 >     JM> something genuinely wrong?
 > 
 > Do you have cookies disabled?  I see this behavior only when I disable 
 > cookies.  This forces the admin interface to re-authenticate for every 
 > query.  Yup, that sucks, and yup I think we can do better.
 
Yep. I'm using the junkbuster proxy. I'll give them a go with the
mailman site set to be allowed to use cookies. I assume that means
detailed help exists.

 > We probably don't need to authenticate if we're just getting details,
 > so we can probably ignore the missing cookie data.  I'll look into a
 > fix for this (too tired right now).
 
Given that I got two messages from this list, I take it that mailman
doesn't check headers and it's list to ensure that we only get sent
one message rather than two. It shouldn't be too hard to implement
this; are there any good reasons not to?

John.



From Harald.Meland at usit.uio.no  Mon Jan 11 08:04:02 1999
From: Harald.Meland at usit.uio.no (Harald Meland)
Date: 11 Jan 1999 08:04:02 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Optimizing mailman deliveries
In-Reply-To: Jonathan Bradshaw's message of "Sun, 10 Jan 1999 11:40:46 -0500"
References: <19990110114046.A143@NrgUp.Com>
Message-ID: <d6d7luuuw7x.fsf@octarine.uio.no>

[Jonathan Bradshaw]

> There are various settings that seem to effect how mailman batches deliveries.
> However, I can't seem to find anything that gives me an overview of the
> "method" to this implementation.

Assuming you by "batching" mean how Mailman partitions the recipients
during delivery of one list message into a number of SMTP dialogues
(and not anything that i.e. has to do with when digests should get
sent out):

The actual batching is done by the "deliver" script, installed in the
"scripts" subdirectory (but distributed in the "mail" subdirectory).
At the top of the script this documentation string is found:

: """Partition a mass delivery into a suitable set of subdeliveries.
: 
: The script takes the following protocol on stdin:
: 
:  line 1: batchnum
:  line 2: sender
:  line 3...n+2: n recipients
:  line n+3: <empty> - delimiting end of recipients
:  line n+4: message content
:  
: The recipients will be distributed into at most batchnum batches, grouping
: together recipients in the same major domain as much as possible."""

> I understand that mailman was designed with the (inefficient) sendmail
> system and it may make sense for that but for those of us using qmail or
> (soon) postfix/vmailer are there guidelines for how I might make sure
> the delivery method is optimized for those environments?

I don't understand -- are you implying that when qmail or postfix are
less efficient in delivering mail when it was injected with multiple
RCPT To:s?  I find that hard to believe :)

However, if you are talking of VERP support (which I believe
e.g. ezmlm has) for weeding out bad subscriber addresses, I think this
is one of the things that are "being worked on" for Mailman.  I
wouldn't expect that stuff to go into the 1.0 series, though.

Or do you by "optimized" mean something entirely different?  If so,
please specify.
-- 
Harald



From delbia at tin.it  Sun Jan 10 09:55:00 1999
From: delbia at tin.it (delbia at tin.it)
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 09:55 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] R: Re: [Mailman-Users] ImportError in mailman-1.0b6
Message-ID: <19990111072637.QMD7594.fep01-svc@Inbox>

Good Barry, Python 1.5.1 has the getpass module so I could begin
to work on mailman (not so fast, I've many many things to do...)

   >Darn.  getpass.py wasn't added to Python until 1.5.1.  In the short
   >term, see if you can upgrade your Python installation.  If not, I'll
   >make sure getpass.py is distributed with the next version of Mailman
   >for Python 1.5 users.
   >
   >Thanks for the bug report.

I'm glad to have noticed that. Not a bug however; perhaps the only thing
for you to do will be to announce on the package that Python release 
should be 1.5.1 or more recent (and not 1.5 as written)...

Best regards... and thanks for your work!

Roberto




From linux-guru at gcfl.net  Mon Jan 11 18:26:15 1999
From: linux-guru at gcfl.net (John Price)
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 11:26:15 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] new install problems
Message-ID: <19990111112615.10989@droopy.gcfl.net>

I'm running apache, and I can't seem to get the mailman web page working.  I
ran the ./configure, make, and make install, but it's not working.

I also added the suggested aliases to the apache config file.

mailman is at "/home/mailman".  Do I have to create a link to that directory
from the /home/httpd/html directory?

Please help.  Thanx.

-- 
John Price <linux-guru at gcfl.net>

PGP key at http://www.gcfl.net/~linux-guru/publickey.txt

GCFL home page -> http://www.gcfl.net

John's FreeDOS page -> http://www.gcfl.net/FreeDOS

AOL Instant Messenger -> "GCFL Owner"



From Garry.Whitson at llcc.cc.il.us  Mon Jan 11 20:29:51 1999
From: Garry.Whitson at llcc.cc.il.us (Garry Whitson)
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 13:29:51 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] NT
Message-ID: <000301be3d98$c2533970$26d058c6@garry.llcc.cc.il.us>

I am running IIS on a NT4.0 Server also running Exchange V5.5
Will Mailman work in this environment?

Thanks
Garry Whitson
Microcomputer Support Spec.
LIncoln Land Community College




From prenagha at yahoo.com  Mon Jan 11 23:06:50 1999
From: prenagha at yahoo.com (Padraic Renaghan)
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 14:06:50 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] new install problems
Message-ID: <19990111220650.15161.rocketmail@send1e.yahoomail.com>

---John Price <linux-guru at gcfl.net> wrote:
> I'm running apache, and I can't seem to get the mailman web page
working.  I
> ran the ./configure, make, and make install, but it's not working.

Please be more specific. Do you get an error message? File not found?
Blank web page?...

> I also added the suggested aliases to the apache config file.

Did you restart apache?

> mailman is at "/home/mailman".  Do I have to create a link to that
directory
> from the /home/httpd/html directory?

No. The Alias lines in the apache config effectively do that.


==

--
Padraic Renaghan <padraic at renaghan.com>
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com




From jonathan at NrgUp.Com  Tue Jan 12 02:38:44 1999
From: jonathan at NrgUp.Com (Jonathan Bradshaw)
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 20:38:44 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Request: Unsubscribe options
Message-ID: <19990111203844.A14703@NrgUp.Com>

Can unsubscribe options be allowed? I am wholehearted against making
unsubscribing from a list any harder for a user than absolutely required and
to make them know a password is a royal pain.

I've changed my copy of the code to relax this but what I would like to see is
an option to allow unsubscribes to be allowed UNLESS they try to unsubscribe
an address they are not sending mail from (they require the password for that
account) or send to the administrator for further action.

Yes, I know this can be forged but honestly... when was the last time you
heard of an attack where a user was UNsubscribed from hundreds of mailing
lists????


-- 
 Jonathan Bradshaw (Jonathan at NrgUp.Com) | Novell 4.x CNE | Ham Callsign N9OXE
          "...I'm not one of those who think Bill Gates is the devil.
         I simply suspect that if Microsoft ever met up with the devil,
              it wouldn't need an interpreter."  -- Nick Petreley



From georgeh at blowtorch.com  Tue Jan 12 17:53:46 1999
From: georgeh at blowtorch.com (George Hartz)
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 16:53:46 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Wierd Mailman problem
Message-ID: <369B7E1A.B3A5F822@blowtorch.com>

Hi,

I'm having a wierd problem with installing Mailman. Its running RedHat
Linux 5.0, with a lot of upgrades on an Alpha server. Python 1.5.1.

The web interface seems to work okay, although I don't get anything in
the archives. Should clicking on the archives link work before any
messages have been posted to the list?

Anyway the problem I seem to be having is that Mailman is failing
without any errors at all. User and group ID's seem to be set correctly.
The wrapper programs aren't logging any errors for bad UID's. (And
running the programs as an incorrect user *does* log them, so I know the
logging itself works. 

Sendmail delivers the messages properly, or at least says its sending
them properly. Nothing shows up on the list. I can't subscribe to the
list, can't post to the list, or do anything involving the lists that
requires an e-mail to actually be processed by Mailman. 

As I said, no errors logged to syslog about it, and nothing shows up in
the errors file in the mailman directory. No mail bounces back either,
which seems a second confirmation that sendmail believes the messages
are getting properly to mailman.

Is there any way to get mailman to actually log what its doing
somewhere? Any ideas where the failure might be? I'm guessing still its
a problem with the wrapper program, but no errors are being logged there
too. 

Anyone got any ideas for a way to tell if the wrapper is *actually*
being called? Its possible that sendmail may be the source of the
problem, it might be logging the attempt to run the wrapper without
actually doing it. I supposed I could deliberately configure mailman
wrong and see if I get errors then... 

Thanks,

George
-- 
email:dotorg at bangsplat.org;url:www.bangsplat.org;uin:153182;aim:tgd98



From georgeh at blowtorch.com  Tue Jan 12 18:02:56 1999
From: georgeh at blowtorch.com (George Hartz)
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 17:02:56 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Update to wierd problem...
Message-ID: <369B8040.A4B5C938@blowtorch.com>

Okay,

Seems its a sendmail issue... I recompiled mailman with the mail-gid
deliberately set incorrectly and I'm still not getting any errors. Which
means Sendmail is telling me its delivering to
"|/usr/local/mailman/mail/wrapper" but its aparently not...

*sigh*

I hate Sendmail :)

- George

--
email:dotorg at bangsplat.org;url:www.bangsplat.org;uin:153182;aim:tgd98



From claw at under.engr.sgi.com  Tue Jan 12 21:02:23 1999
From: claw at under.engr.sgi.com (J C Lawrence)
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 12:02:23 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Update to wierd problem... 
In-Reply-To: Message from George Hartz <georgeh@blowtorch.com> 
   of "Tue, 12 Jan 1999 17:02:56 GMT." <369B8040.A4B5C938@blowtorch.com> 
Message-ID: <199901122002.MAA08306@under.engr.sgi.com>

On Tue, 12 Jan 1999 17:02:56 +0000 
George Hartz<georgeh at blowtorch.com> wrote:

> Okay, Seems its a sendmail issue... I recompiled mailman with the
> mail-gid deliberately set incorrectly and I'm still not getting
> any errors. Which means Sendmail is telling me its delivering to
> "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/wrapper" but its aparently not...

> *sigh*

> I hate Sendmail :)

Run, do not walk, to http://www.exim.org/ for an MTA.  Much much
better error logging and tracebacks, human readable configs, faster,
actively supported, responsive author (see mailing list archives)
etc etc etc.  Good stuff.  If you want help with the config, just
ask me off-list.

-- 
J C Lawrence                              Internet: claw at kanga.nu
(Contractor)                             Internet: coder at kanga.nu
---------(*)                    Internet: claw at under.engr.sgi.com
...Honorary Member of Clan McFud -- Teamer's Avenging Monolith...



From jeff at endeavor.med.nyu.edu  Tue Jan 12 21:11:37 1999
From: jeff at endeavor.med.nyu.edu (Jeff Berliner)
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 15:11:37 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] public archives are private
Message-ID: <1591743.3125142697@antwerp.med.nyu.edu>

     I'm running Mailman 1.0b7 on Digital Unix 4.0B.  I've got it
installed, and running two test lists, and all of the CGI scripts seem to
run fine.  As well, the mailing lists are working without a problem.  

     I can't get them to properly archive on the WWW though.  I have
explicitly set each list to "public", yet each list has still created it's
archive in the private tree of my MM installation, and an attempt to get to
/pipermail/... is met with a 404 error. 

     My Apache alias points to .../archive/public, and it works, since I've
put a random html file in there and I can access it.  

     Any other ideas?  Thanks! :)

                                                  - Jeff

--
Jeff Berliner                            jeff at popmail.med.nyu.edu 
Academic Computing,                      Phone: (212) 263-5744
New York University School of Medicine   Fax:   (212) 263-8542




From bwarsaw at cnri.reston.va.us  Tue Jan 12 21:10:24 1999
From: bwarsaw at cnri.reston.va.us (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 15:10:24 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] new install problems
References: <19990111112615.10989@droopy.gcfl.net>
Message-ID: <13979.44080.808264.304189@anthem.cnri.reston.va.us>

>>>>> "JP" == John Price <linux-guru at gcfl.net> writes:

    JP> I'm running apache, and I can't seem to get the mailman web
    JP> page working.  I ran the ./configure, make, and make install,
    JP> but it's not working.

Check your syslog.  Do you see messages that indicate a gid mismatch?
Note that in the next version of Mailman, debugging this very common
error will be easier since you'll get an error Web page in addition to 
the syslog logging.

Note that if you haven't got the CGI gid set right, you will *not* see 
error messages in Mailman's logs/error file.  This is because the
chain of command is broken before it even gets to Python.

-Barry



From bwarsaw at cnri.reston.va.us  Tue Jan 12 21:13:50 1999
From: bwarsaw at cnri.reston.va.us (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 15:13:50 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] NT
References: <000301be3d98$c2533970$26d058c6@garry.llcc.cc.il.us>
Message-ID: <13979.44286.801506.402053@anthem.cnri.reston.va.us>

>>>>> "GW" == Garry Whitson <Garry.Whitson at llcc.cc.il.us> writes:

    GW> I am running IIS on a NT4.0 Server also running Exchange V5.5
    GW> Will Mailman work in this environment?

This was recently discussed on mailman-developers.  The upshot is that 
currently Mailman does not work on NT, and while it would be nice,
it's probably more work than anybody has time for right now.

http://www.python.org/pipermail/mailman-developers/1999-January/000739.html

-Barry



From bwarsaw at cnri.reston.va.us  Tue Jan 12 21:15:22 1999
From: bwarsaw at cnri.reston.va.us (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 15:15:22 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Request: Unsubscribe options
References: <19990111203844.A14703@NrgUp.Com>
Message-ID: <13979.44378.843103.670503@anthem.cnri.reston.va.us>

>>>>> "JB" == Jonathan Bradshaw <jonathan at nrgup.com> writes:

    JB> Can unsubscribe options be allowed? I am wholehearted against
    JB> making unsubscribing from a list any harder for a user than
    JB> absolutely required and to make them know a password is a
    JB> royal pain.

    JB> I've changed my copy of the code to relax this but what I
    JB> would like to see is an option to allow unsubscribes to be
    JB> allowed UNLESS they try to unsubscribe an address they are not
    JB> sending mail from (they require the password for that account)
    JB> or send to the administrator for further action.

    JB> Yes, I know this can be forged but honestly... when was the
    JB> last time you heard of an attack where a user was UNsubscribed
    JB> from hundreds of mailing lists????

We've talked about a more general solution where many of the things
that currently require a password for Web interaction, could
optionally use an email confirmation step.  Do you think even this
would be too much of a burden for unsubscribing?

-Barry



From bwarsaw at cnri.reston.va.us  Tue Jan 12 21:18:48 1999
From: bwarsaw at cnri.reston.va.us (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 15:18:48 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Update to wierd problem...
References: <369B8040.A4B5C938@blowtorch.com>
Message-ID: <13979.44584.6146.822408@anthem.cnri.reston.va.us>

>>>>> "GH" == George Hartz <georgeh at blowtorch.com> writes:

    GH> Seems its a sendmail issue... I recompiled mailman with the
    GH> mail-gid deliberately set incorrectly and I'm still not
    GH> getting any errors. Which means Sendmail is telling me its
    GH> delivering to "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/wrapper" but its
    GH> aparently not...

The mail wrapper program logs its errors to syslog, because it hasn't
gotten to Python yet.  It is the Python stuff that logs to
$prefix/logs/whatever.

-Barry



From bwarsaw at cnri.reston.va.us  Tue Jan 12 21:32:45 1999
From: bwarsaw at cnri.reston.va.us (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 15:32:45 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] public archives are private
References: <1591743.3125142697@antwerp.med.nyu.edu>
Message-ID: <13979.45421.27238.908230@anthem.cnri.reston.va.us>

>>>>> "JB" == Jeff Berliner <jeff at endeavor.med.nyu.edu> writes:

    JB>      I'm running Mailman 1.0b7 on Digital Unix 4.0B.  I've got
    JB> it installed, and running two test lists, and all of the CGI
    JB> scripts seem to run fine.  As well, the mailing lists are
    JB> working without a problem.

Cool!

    JB>      I can't get them to properly archive on the WWW though.
    JB> I have explicitly set each list to "public", yet each list has
    JB> still created it's archive in the private tree of my MM
    JB> installation, and an attempt to get to /pipermail/... is met
    JB> with a 404 error.

    JB>      My Apache alias points to .../archive/public, and it
    JB> works, since I've put a random html file in there and I can
    JB> access it.

    JB>      Any other ideas?  Thanks! :)

I bet I know what's going on, you probably don't have Apache
configured to follow symlinks in that directory.  There's an obscure
sentence in INSTALL that eludes to this need, but I can see how this
might be easy to overlook.

The archives always get written to the private tree, regardless of
whether archives are public or private.  This private tree is not
accessible to the Web server, so when archives are private they must
be vended via CGI (and you'll see that the URL points to a CGI
script).  When the archives go public, a symbolic link is created from 
the Alias path you specified, into the private tree.  This symlink
path *is* accessible to the Web server -- provided you enable symlink
traversal -- and so for public archives, vending is much faster.

See the Apache option FollowSymLinks for details.

-Barry



From georgeh at blowtorch.com  Tue Jan 12 21:38:15 1999
From: georgeh at blowtorch.com (George Hartz)
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 20:38:15 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Update to wierd problem...
References: <199901122002.MAA08306@under.engr.sgi.com>
Message-ID: <369BB2B7.800475FA@blowtorch.com>

J C Lawrence wrote:
> 
> On Tue, 12 Jan 1999 17:02:56 +0000
> George Hartz<georgeh at blowtorch.com> wrote:
> 
> > Okay, Seems its a sendmail issue... I recompiled mailman with the
> > mail-gid deliberately set incorrectly and I'm still not getting
> > any errors. Which means Sendmail is telling me its delivering to
> > "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/wrapper" but its aparently not...
> 
> > *sigh*
> 
> > I hate Sendmail :)
> 
> Run, do not walk, to http://www.exim.org/ for an MTA.  Much much
> better error logging and tracebacks, human readable configs, faster,
> actively supported, responsive author (see mailing list archives)
> etc etc etc.  Good stuff.  If you want help with the config, just
> ask me off-list.

Okay, I seem to have found the problem, but haven't fixed it yet.
Sendmail is processing the aliases file correctly, but when I looked
closer to the log file, its sending the piped command to the local
mailer not the prog mailer. Which I'm guessing means there's some sort
of a ruleset missing in my sendmail.cf file, or the process of telling
sendmail to use procmail as its local mailer somehow broke the prog
mailer. Four hours of searching the net hasn't tracked down any hints
where to look though. I'll repeat how much I hate sendmail. :)

I may take a look at exim, but I'm not sure if its going to be easier to
fix sendmail or figure out how to get exim to handle mail the wierd way
the server is set right now. (Basically using procmail to filter
incoming mail before being sent to Cyrus -- the imap server -- for users
that don't actually exist on the server...)

Sorry to take up bandwidth on the mailman list for a problem that turns
out wasn't mailman at all...

- George
--
email:dotorg at bangsplat.org;url:www.bangsplat.org;uin:153182;aim:tgd98



From mclark at outbackinc.com  Tue Jan 12 21:32:26 1999
From: mclark at outbackinc.com (Miles Clark)
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 12:32:26 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: public archives are private
Message-ID: <91E1A76552BECF11B04E00A0248E3F9A443F6F@walkabout.outbackinc.com>

Hi - 

Here's an archived mailing list message that explains how to solve the
problem.  I had to put the <Directory> section in access.conf, but other
than that it worked fine.

http://www.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/1998-November/000173.html

Good luck,

Miles


--
Miles Clark                    mclark at outbackinc.com
OutBack Resource Group Inc.    http://www.OutBackInc.com





From jonathan at NrgUp.Com  Tue Jan 12 21:58:42 1999
From: jonathan at NrgUp.Com (Jonathan Bradshaw)
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 15:58:42 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Request: Unsubscribe options
In-Reply-To: <13979.44378.843103.670503@anthem.cnri.reston.va.us>; from Barry A. Warsaw on Tue, Jan 12, 1999 at 03:15:22PM -0500
References: <19990111203844.A14703@NrgUp.Com> <13979.44378.843103.670503@anthem.cnri.reston.va.us>
Message-ID: <19990112155842.A21141@NrgUp.Com>

Barry:

  I am in complete agreement about the password required for all web based
activity and for needing confirmation on subscribing and I agree with
confirmation on other changes (as long as its as simple as hitting reply for
most normal mail clients) but people tend to get upset if they can't
unsubscribe from a list the first method that comes into their head and in the
days we live in with spam they tend to shoot first and ask questions later by
sending nasty messages to the list :-(

In my mind, sending a confirmation with "you have been unsubscribed, if this
was not want you wanted to do, simply hit reply" or something like that would
accomplish that.

Now, that being said, I restrict the subscriber list to the admin only so I
don't need to worry about some idiot grabbing the list and playing with it so
maybe I need less security.

Maybe "allow open unsubscribes" is what I'm looking for?

On Tue, Jan 12, 1999 at 03:15:22PM -0500, Barry A. Warsaw wrote:
> 
> >>>>> "JB" == Jonathan Bradshaw <jonathan at nrgup.com> writes:
> 
>     JB> Can unsubscribe options be allowed? I am wholehearted against
>     JB> making unsubscribing from a list any harder for a user than
>     JB> absolutely required and to make them know a password is a
>     JB> royal pain.
> 
>     JB> I've changed my copy of the code to relax this but what I
>     JB> would like to see is an option to allow unsubscribes to be
>     JB> allowed UNLESS they try to unsubscribe an address they are not
>     JB> sending mail from (they require the password for that account)
>     JB> or send to the administrator for further action.
> 
>     JB> Yes, I know this can be forged but honestly... when was the
>     JB> last time you heard of an attack where a user was UNsubscribed
>     JB> from hundreds of mailing lists????
> 
> We've talked about a more general solution where many of the things
> that currently require a password for Web interaction, could
> optionally use an email confirmation step.  Do you think even this
> would be too much of a burden for unsubscribing?
> 
> -Barry

-- 
 Jonathan Bradshaw (Jonathan at NrgUp.Com) | Novell 4.x CNE | Ham Callsign N9OXE
          "...I'm not one of those who think Bill Gates is the devil.
         I simply suspect that if Microsoft ever met up with the devil,
              it wouldn't need an interpreter."  -- Nick Petreley



From bwarsaw at cnri.reston.va.us  Tue Jan 12 21:26:54 1999
From: bwarsaw at cnri.reston.va.us (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 15:26:54 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Wierd Mailman problem
References: <369B7E1A.B3A5F822@blowtorch.com>
Message-ID: <13979.45070.392127.454362@anthem.cnri.reston.va.us>

>>>>> "GH" == George Hartz <georgeh at blowtorch.com> writes:

    GH> The web interface seems to work okay, although I don't get
    GH> anything in the archives. Should clicking on the archives link
    GH> work before any messages have been posted to the list?

No, that's a buglet.  The archive link is not functional until at
least one message has been posted to the list.

    GH> Anyway the problem I seem to be having is that Mailman is
    GH> failing without any errors at all. User and group ID's seem to
    GH> be set correctly.  The wrapper programs aren't logging any
    GH> errors for bad UID's. (And running the programs as an
    GH> incorrect user *does* log them, so I know the logging itself
    GH> works.

I'm sure you know that if the error occurs because of a gid mismatch,
in either the CGI wrapper or the mail wrapper, errors are only logged
to syslog, not to $prefix/logs/error.  For mail, you ought to also get 
a bounce containing the error message, and for CGI -- with the next
version -- you will get a more useful Web diagnostic page.

Once control has been passed to the Python world (e.g. the `driver'
script for CGI, or `post' for mail), then errors get logged to
Mailman's log files.  Note that a misconfiguration of syslog or your
mail system might mean that those pre-Python errors are getting lost.

[This is probably more useful to mailman-developers]

Once you're in the Python world, there are several ways to log error
messages for debugging.  My favorite is, once I have a MailList
object, I like to call the LogMsg() method with kind=='debug', kind of 
like so:

    mlistobj.LogMsg('debug', 'I got to here: %s', 'foo method')

This will timestamp the message, and write it to $prefix/errors/debug.

-Barry




From jeff at endeavor.med.nyu.edu  Tue Jan 12 22:52:18 1999
From: jeff at endeavor.med.nyu.edu (Jeff Berliner)
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 16:52:18 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] public archives are private
Message-ID: <1955368.3125148738@antwerp.med.nyu.edu>

--On Tue, Jan 12, 1999 3:32 PM -0500 "Barry A. Warsaw"
<bwarsaw at cnri.reston.va.us> wrote: 

> 
> I bet I know what's going on, you probably don't have Apache
> configured to follow symlinks in that directory.  There's an obscure
> sentence in INSTALL that eludes to this need, but I can see how this
> might be easy to overlook.
> 
> The archives always get written to the private tree, regardless of
> whether archives are public or private.  This private tree is not
> accessible to the Web server, so when archives are private they must
> be vended via CGI (and you'll see that the URL points to a CGI
> script).  When the archives go public, a symbolic link is created from 
> the Alias path you specified, into the private tree.  This symlink
> path *is* accessible to the Web server -- provided you enable symlink
> traversal -- and so for public archives, vending is much faster.
> 
> See the Apache option FollowSymLinks for details.

     I added a section to my access.conf which looks like:


<Directory /usr/local/mailman/archives/public>
Options FollowSymLinks
order allow,deny
allow from all
</Directory>

     I added the order and allow as per the example provided, but there is
no restriction on the server.  I stopped and restarted Apache, and even
recreated (rmlist -a, and newlist) my test list.  It still creates things
properly in the private directory, but my public directory remains empty
(without even a symbollic link for Apache to follow).  Am I missing
something still?  Apologies if this is me being brain dead...

                                                  - Jeff

p.s. A little humor:  One of my test lists was called "lunch", for a
co-worker and I to play with.  When looking at the listinfo page, we got a
laugh out of:

     "2 non-digested lunch users subscribed" 

     
--
Jeff Berliner                            jeff at popmail.med.nyu.edu 
Academic Computing,                      Phone: (212) 263-5744
New York University School of Medicine   Fax:   (212) 263-8542




From nimh at morticia.ml.org  Tue Jan 12 23:15:57 1999
From: nimh at morticia.ml.org (Jason Wellman)
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 16:15:57 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bug in b7?
Message-ID: <001701be3e79$272a4880$0100a8c0@shadowcat>

Heya,

I recently upgraded from b6 to b7 (running RH 5.2).  And I am most impressed
by mailman, and the smooth transition during upgrading.  But I have two bugs
(???) I need to work out.

1)  Even if a person is subscribed to a list it keeps the message and sends
me a "administrator needs to approve" message.  This is the most serious
bug, as I have many many lists this is already eating up a lot of my time.
:)

2)  When I hit the listinfo page <whatever>/mailman/listinfo the publicly
displayable lists (marked as so in the privacy options) do not show up.

Any sugestions?  Thanks for your time and keep up the great work!


-- Jason Wellman




From hallewellt at rfa.org  Wed Jan 13 00:50:28 1999
From: hallewellt at rfa.org (Tom Hallewell)
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 18:50:28 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] import paths error
Message-ID: <000201be3e86$557da530$6b021eac@banger.rfa.org>

I am trying to get mailman set up under Red Hat 5.1, running Python 1.5.1
and keep getting the following message:

Traceback (innermost last):
  File "bin/mmsitepass", line 26, in ?
    import paths
ImportError: No module named paths

whenever I try running either
/bin/mmsitepass
or
/bin/newlist
Python will not "import paths" on its own either.  Am I missing a module or
the whole point? : )

Tom Hallewell
Radio Free Asia




From bwarsaw at cnri.reston.va.us  Wed Jan 13 00:51:58 1999
From: bwarsaw at cnri.reston.va.us (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 18:51:58 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: R: Re: [Mailman-Users] ImportError in mailman-1.0b6
References: <19990111072637.QMD7594.fep01-svc@Inbox>
Message-ID: <13979.57374.618703.729942@anthem.cnri.reston.va.us>

>>>>> "delbia" ==   <delbia at tin.it> writes:

    delbia> I'm glad to have noticed that. Not a bug however; perhaps
    delbia> the only thing for you to do will be to announce on the
    delbia> package that Python release should be 1.5.1 or more recent
    delbia> (and not 1.5 as written)...

I'd still like to be able to claim Python 1.5 compatibility, at least
for the Mailman 1.0 release.  At some point we will probably have to
require 1.5.1 or better, but I hope we're not there yet.

-Barry



From bwarsaw at cnri.reston.va.us  Wed Jan 13 00:55:47 1999
From: bwarsaw at cnri.reston.va.us (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 18:55:47 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Sequence numbers
References: <13971.63991.368862.673086@antares.plain.co.nz>
	<13973.43134.852176.312459@anthem.cnri.reston.va.us>
	<13977.30364.216948.737592@antares.plain.co.nz>
Message-ID: <13979.57603.132106.810058@anthem.cnri.reston.va.us>

>>>>> "JM" == John M <jwm at plain.co.nz> writes:

    JM> Yep. I'm using the junkbuster proxy. I'll give them a go with
    JM> the mailman site set to be allowed to use cookies. I assume
    JM> that means detailed help exists.

Yes, for many of the options (but not all).

    JM> Given that I got two messages from this list, I take it that
    JM> mailman doesn't check headers and it's list to ensure that we
    JM> only get sent one message rather than two. It shouldn't be too
    JM> hard to implement this; are there any good reasons not to?

Mostly time constraints.  We have plans to do things like, if a
message was sent to several lists, make sure no recipient on the union 
of those lists gets the message more than once.

-Barry



From scott at chronis.pobox.com  Wed Jan 13 01:43:32 1999
From: scott at chronis.pobox.com (scott cotton)
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 19:43:32 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bug in b7?
In-Reply-To: <001701be3e79$272a4880$0100a8c0@shadowcat>; from Jason Wellman on Tue, Jan 12, 1999 at 04:15:57PM -0600
References: <001701be3e79$272a4880$0100a8c0@shadowcat>
Message-ID: <19990112194332.A15489@chronis.pobox.com>

On Tue, Jan 12, 1999 at 04:15:57PM -0600, Jason Wellman wrote:
| 
| Heya,
| 
| I recently upgraded from b6 to b7 (running RH 5.2).  And I am most impressed
| by mailman, and the smooth transition during upgrading.  But I have two bugs
| (???) I need to work out.
| 
| 1)  Even if a person is subscribed to a list it keeps the message and sends
| me a "administrator needs to approve" message.  This is the most serious
| bug, as I have many many lists this is already eating up a lot of my time.
| :)

If your MTA changes the envelope sender of messages to
mailling lists (some do), then you will have to change
"GetEnvelopeSender" to "GetSender" in the file MailList.py
in the function "Post".

good luck

scott



| 2)  When I hit the listinfo page <whatever>/mailman/listinfo the publicly
| displayable lists (marked as so in the privacy options) do not show up.
| 
| Any sugestions?  Thanks for your time and keep up the great work!
| 
| 
| -- Jason Wellman
| 
| 
| ------------------------------------------------------
| Mailman-Users maillist  -  Mailman-Users at python.org
| http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
| 



From claw at under.engr.sgi.com  Wed Jan 13 01:24:10 1999
From: claw at under.engr.sgi.com (J C Lawrence)
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 16:24:10 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Sequence numbers 
In-Reply-To: Message from "Barry A. Warsaw" <bwarsaw@cnri.reston.va.us> 
   of "Tue, 12 Jan 1999 18:55:47 EST." <13979.57603.132106.810058@anthem.cnri.reston.va.us> 
Message-ID: <199901130024.QAA18201@under.engr.sgi.com>

On Tue, 12 Jan 1999 18:55:47 -0500 (EST) 
Barry A Warsaw<bwarsaw at cnri.reston.va.us> wrote:

> Mostly time constraints.  We have plans to do things like, if a
> message was sent to several lists, make sure no recipient on the
> union of those lists gets the message more than once.

If you do this, please make it optional as it really screws mail
filters/systems that rely on per-list receipts (like I do).

A feature I'm looking for in MailMan (and am willing to hack in as
soon as I get time) is what I call "controlled lists".  Simply:

  -- by default subscribers can't post.
  -- depending on list configuration their posts are either held for 
     moderator approval or are silently bit-bucketted.
  -- the list owner can tag specific subscribers such that their
     posts are automatically approved (ie grant posting authority to 
     that subscriber).

Another minor extension on a different axis makes lists invitation
only (any existent member in good standing may invite/sponsor other
members to the list).  There are two forms of this: sponsored with
list owner oversight and sponsored with no oversight.

-- 
J C Lawrence                              Internet: claw at kanga.nu
(Contractor)                             Internet: coder at kanga.nu
---------(*)                    Internet: claw at under.engr.sgi.com
...Honorary Member of Clan McFud -- Teamer's Avenging Monolith...



From nimh at morticia.ml.org  Wed Jan 13 03:43:05 1999
From: nimh at morticia.ml.org (Jason Wellman)
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 20:43:05 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bug in b7?
Message-ID: <001d01be3e9e$786b37c0$0100a8c0@shadowcat>


Thanks Scott,

This seems to have fixed my problem. :)

-- Jason

-----Original Message-----
From: scott cotton <scott at chronis.pobox.com>
To: mailman-users at python.org <mailman-users at python.org>
Date: Tuesday, January 12, 1999 6:52 PM
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Bug in b7?


>On Tue, Jan 12, 1999 at 04:15:57PM -0600, Jason Wellman wrote:
>|
>| Heya,
>|
>| I recently upgraded from b6 to b7 (running RH 5.2).  And I am most
impressed
>| by mailman, and the smooth transition during upgrading.  But I have two
bugs
>| (???) I need to work out.
>|
>| 1)  Even if a person is subscribed to a list it keeps the message and
sends
>| me a "administrator needs to approve" message.  This is the most serious
>| bug, as I have many many lists this is already eating up a lot of my
time.
>| :)
>
>If your MTA changes the envelope sender of messages to
>mailling lists (some do), then you will have to change
>"GetEnvelopeSender" to "GetSender" in the file MailList.py
>in the function "Post".
>
>good luck
>
>scott
>
>
>
>| 2)  When I hit the listinfo page <whatever>/mailman/listinfo the publicly
>| displayable lists (marked as so in the privacy options) do not show up.
>|
>| Any sugestions?  Thanks for your time and keep up the great work!
>|
>|
>| -- Jason Wellman
>|
>|
>| ------------------------------------------------------
>| Mailman-Users maillist  -  Mailman-Users at python.org
>| http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
>|
>
>------------------------------------------------------
>Mailman-Users maillist  -  Mailman-Users at python.org
>http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
>




From bwarsaw at cnri.reston.va.us  Wed Jan 13 04:05:05 1999
From: bwarsaw at cnri.reston.va.us (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 22:05:05 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bug in b7?
References: <001701be3e79$272a4880$0100a8c0@shadowcat>
Message-ID: <13980.3425.984929.131972@anthem.cnri.reston.va.us>

>>>>> "JW" == Jason Wellman <nimh at morticia.ml.org> writes:

    JW> 1) Even if a person is subscribed to a list it keeps the
    JW> message and sends me a "administrator needs to approve"
    JW> message.  This is the most serious bug, as I have many many
    JW> lists this is already eating up a lot of my time.  :)

So just to be clear, you have "posts approved by admin" set to no,
"restrict postings" to yes, and the person sending to the list is a
member.

I think this harks back to Harald's message, and I must admit that it
is confusing how the three "General posting filter" options interact.
I'm not sure *I* even understand (hey, Ken, Scott & John, feel free to 
pipe in :-).

My understanding is if you've got "approved by admin" set to yes, then
no matter what the setting of "restrict" and the sender's list
membership, all postings require the approval.  However, if the sender 
is explicitly enumerated in the third option, no approval is
necessary.

And I've probably got that wrong.  We need to do a better job of
either describing how these options interact, or find a better
interface and mechanism for specifying the various options.

    JW> 2) When I hit the listinfo page <whatever>/mailman/listinfo
    JW> the publicly displayable lists (marked as so in the privacy
    JW> options) do not show up.

I've never seen that happen.  So none of your lists are showing up on
the general page?  Are you seeing any errors in the logs/error file?
If not, we'll have to get our hands dirty!

-Barry



From bwarsaw at cnri.reston.va.us  Wed Jan 13 04:06:57 1999
From: bwarsaw at cnri.reston.va.us (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 22:06:57 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] import paths error
References: <000201be3e86$557da530$6b021eac@banger.rfa.org>
Message-ID: <13980.3537.518371.981840@anthem.cnri.reston.va.us>

>>>>> "TH" == Tom Hallewell <hallewellt at rfa.org> writes:

    TH> I am trying to get mailman set up under Red Hat 5.1, running
    TH> Python 1.5.1 and keep getting the following message:

    TH> Traceback (innermost last):
    |   File "bin/mmsitepass", line 26, in ?
    |     import paths
    TH> ImportError: No module named paths

    TH> whenever I try running either /bin/mmsitepass or /bin/newlist
    TH> Python will not "import paths" on its own either.  Am I
    TH> missing a module or the whole point? : )

Tom,

Did you run configure and `make install'?  Are you running Mailman out 
of the directory it was installed into (which should be different than 
the directory you unpacked the source in).  There should be a paths.py 
file in the bin/ directory.  The symptoms you describe sound like what 
would happen if you try to run things out of the directory you
unpacked the source in (where there's no paths.py file in bin/).

-Barry



From bwarsaw at cnri.reston.va.us  Wed Jan 13 04:14:33 1999
From: bwarsaw at cnri.reston.va.us (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 22:14:33 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bug in b7?
References: <001d01be3e9e$786b37c0$0100a8c0@shadowcat>
Message-ID: <13980.3993.123298.219419@anthem.cnri.reston.va.us>

>>>>> "JW" == Jason Wellman <nimh at morticia.ml.org> writes:

    JW> This seems to have fixed my problem. :)

Cool.  Thanks Scott.  Is this something we should make (site)
configurable?

-Barry



From nimh at morticia.ml.org  Wed Jan 13 04:15:47 1999
From: nimh at morticia.ml.org (Jason Wellman)
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 21:15:47 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bug in b7?
Message-ID: <002801be3ea3$0cdf3a60$0100a8c0@shadowcat>


>So just to be clear, you have "posts approved by admin" set to no,
>"restrict postings" to yes, and the person sending to the list is a
>member.


Correct.

>I think this harks back to Harald's message, and I must admit that it
>is confusing how the three "General posting filter" options interact.
>I'm not sure *I* even understand (hey, Ken, Scott & John, feel free to
>pipe in :-).
>
>My understanding is if you've got "approved by admin" set to yes, then
>no matter what the setting of "restrict" and the sender's list
>membership, all postings require the approval.  However, if the sender
>is explicitly enumerated in the third option, no approval is
>necessary.


Right.  I got all that (I think). :)

"approved by admin" is set to no
the "posting only by subscribed" is set to yes
and I have no one in the "allow posts from these adresses regardless"
section

>    JW> 2) When I hit the listinfo page <whatever>/mailman/listinfo
>    JW> the publicly displayable lists (marked as so in the privacy
>    JW> options) do not show up.
>
>I've never seen that happen.  So none of your lists are showing up on
>the general page?  Are you seeing any errors in the logs/error file?
>If not, we'll have to get our hands dirty!


No related errors in the log files.  Just two from back when I ran b6.  This
isn't as big a deal, but I would like it to work. :)

-- Jason




From scott at chronis.pobox.com  Wed Jan 13 04:24:40 1999
From: scott at chronis.pobox.com (scott cotton)
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 22:24:40 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bug in b7?
In-Reply-To: <13980.3425.984929.131972@anthem.cnri.reston.va.us>; from Barry A. Warsaw on Tue, Jan 12, 1999 at 10:05:05PM -0500
References: <001701be3e79$272a4880$0100a8c0@shadowcat> <13980.3425.984929.131972@anthem.cnri.reston.va.us>
Message-ID: <19990112222440.A16029@chronis.pobox.com>

On Tue, Jan 12, 1999 at 10:05:05PM -0500, Barry A. Warsaw wrote:
| 
| My understanding is if you've got "approved by admin" set to yes, then
| no matter what the setting of "restrict" and the sender's list
| membership, all postings require the approval.  However, if the sender 
| is explicitly enumerated in the third option, no approval is
| necessary.
| 
| And I've probably got that wrong.  We need to do a better job of
| either describing how these options interact, or find a better
| interface and mechanism for specifying the various options.

IMO opinion the clearest interface would be to allow the
admin to set a list of restrictions.  each restriction is
checked in order, and the first matching restriction wins.
each restriction may either permit the action or deny it.

for example: 

post_restrictions = ["permit_someone at somewhere",
		     "permit_owners",
		     "permit_subscribers",
		     "deny"]

or 

post_restrictions = ["deny_mesage_exceeds_maxsize",
		     "deny_bad at evil.org",
		     "permit"]


This type of thing is clear and doesn't attempt to classify
each potential list setting in a particular way -- which is
simply impossible.  

Since no variables interact with other variables, it's
pretty hard to misunderstand.

scott



|     JW> 2) When I hit the listinfo page <whatever>/mailman/listinfo
|     JW> the publicly displayable lists (marked as so in the privacy
|     JW> options) do not show up.
| 
| I've never seen that happen.  So none of your lists are showing up on
| the general page?  Are you seeing any errors in the logs/error file?
| If not, we'll have to get our hands dirty!
| 
| -Barry
| 
| ------------------------------------------------------
| Mailman-Users maillist  -  Mailman-Users at python.org
| http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
| 



From Harald.Meland at usit.uio.no  Wed Jan 13 08:53:49 1999
From: Harald.Meland at usit.uio.no (Harald Meland)
Date: 13 Jan 1999 08:53:49 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bug in b7?
In-Reply-To: "Barry A. Warsaw"'s message of "Tue, 12 Jan 1999 22:14:33 -0500 (EST)"
References: <001d01be3e9e$786b37c0$0100a8c0@shadowcat> <13980.3993.123298.219419@anthem.cnri.reston.va.us>
Message-ID: <d6d3e5f1ucy.fsf@octarine.uio.no>

[Barry A. Warsaw]

> >>>>> "JW" == Jason Wellman <nimh at morticia.ml.org> writes:
> 
>     JW> This seems to have fixed my problem. :)
> 
> Cool.  Thanks Scott.  Is this something we should make (site)
> configurable?

I would rather suggest testing both the envelope and the header sender
address against the allowed posters.

I'm currently in the process of (very slowly) migrating our lists from
a legacy system (called "mlist", part of the MTA "PP") to Mailman, and
have Mailman running on a system completely separated from our main
mail server setup.

Whenever I migrate a list from mlist, I want the address it had to
continue working -- and the easiest way of doing this is to add the
new Mailman list address as the only member of the mlist address.

However, mlist of course substitutes the mlist admin for the envelope
sender, and thus isn't working properly when GetEnvelopeSender() is
used.

It could of course be argued that I should work around this in some
other way -- off the top of my head, I can think of these possible
solutions (none of which I have tried yet):

 * Make the old mlist list addresses into PP aliases, thereby removing
   any envelope sender change effects.

 * Add the mlist envelope sender to the `posters' setting of the list,
   thereby allowing all members _and_ the problematic changed envelope
   sender.

However, as I'm unable to see any good reasons for just checking one
of the sender addresses (I don't believe either of them to be harder
to forge than the other), I'm hoping I won't have to play with any
workaround hacks :)



BTW, it seems that I am unable to reproduce the problems I had with
member_posting_only as well (but I don't believe they had anything to
do with envelope sender addresses).  If they turn up again, I'll
holler :)

And, Scott's suggestion of making the posting restrictions into some
kind of ACL sounds conceptually very nice -- but I'm wondering how
well ACL editing will translate into a web UI.
-- 
Harald



From gstein at lyra.org  Wed Jan 13 09:48:49 1999
From: gstein at lyra.org (Greg Stein)
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 00:48:49 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bug in b7?
In-Reply-To: <002801be3ea3$0cdf3a60$0100a8c0@shadowcat>
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.95.990113004718.21704A-100000@svpal.svpal.org>

On Tue, 12 Jan 1999, Jason Wellman wrote:
> ...
> >    JW> 2) When I hit the listinfo page <whatever>/mailman/listinfo
> >    JW> the publicly displayable lists (marked as so in the privacy
> >    JW> options) do not show up.
> >
> >I've never seen that happen.  So none of your lists are showing up on
> >the general page?  Are you seeing any errors in the logs/error file?
> >If not, we'll have to get our hands dirty!
> 
> No related errors in the log files.  Just two from back when I ran b6.  This
> isn't as big a deal, but I would like it to work. :)

Could this be due to the "per-virtual host" list option? I don't recall
exactly how/where you set that, but I've got it set on my mailman
installation. Lists will only appear if the hostname in the URL matches
the hostname listed in the configuration for the "URL root" or whatever it
is called.

-g

--
Greg Stein, http://www.lyra.org/





From andy at nachoz.com  Wed Jan 13 16:20:30 1999
From: andy at nachoz.com (Andy Harrison)
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 10:20:30 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Wierd Mailman problem
In-Reply-To: <13979.45070.392127.454362@anthem.cnri.reston.va.us>
Message-ID: <XFMail.990113102030.andy@nachoz.com>

On 12-Jan-99 Barry A. Warsaw wrote:
> 
>>>>>> "GH" == George Hartz <georgeh at blowtorch.com> writes:
> 
>     GH> The web interface seems to work okay, although I don't get
>     GH> anything in the archives. Should clicking on the archives link
>     GH> work before any messages have been posted to the list?
> 
> No, that's a buglet.  The archive link is not functional until at
> least one message has been posted to the list.
> 


What if messages have been posted to the list but the archiving still isn't
working?


---------------------------------
E-Mail:  Andy Harrison <andy at nachoz.com>
Date:  13-Jan-99
Time:  10:15:31

This message was sent by XFMail
---------------------------------



From andy at nachoz.com  Wed Jan 13 16:31:09 1999
From: andy at nachoz.com (Andy Harrison)
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 10:31:09 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] public archives are private
In-Reply-To: <13979.45421.27238.908230@anthem.cnri.reston.va.us>
Message-ID: <XFMail.990113103109.andy@nachoz.com>

> I bet I know what's going on, you probably don't have Apache
> configured to follow symlinks in that directory.  There's an obscure
> sentence in INSTALL that eludes to this need, but I can see how this
> might be easy to overlook.
> 
> The archives always get written to the private tree, regardless of
> whether archives are public or private.  This private tree is not
> accessible to the Web server, so when archives are private they must
> be vended via CGI (and you'll see that the URL points to a CGI
> script).  When the archives go public, a symbolic link is created from 
> the Alias path you specified, into the private tree.  This symlink
> path *is* accessible to the Web server -- provided you enable symlink
> traversal -- and so for public archives, vending is much faster.
> 
> See the Apache option FollowSymLinks for details.
> 
> -Barry
> 

I already had that option in.  The problem is that the directory that the
symlink points to does not exist.  There are files in the directory, but they
all end in *.mbox, which the symlink does not point to.

---------------------------------
E-Mail:  Andy Harrison <andy at nachoz.com>
Date:  13-Jan-99
Time:  10:29:13

This message was sent by XFMail
---------------------------------



From gstein at lyra.org  Wed Jan 13 10:07:46 1999
From: gstein at lyra.org (Greg Stein)
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 01:07:46 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Sequence numbers 
In-Reply-To: <199901130024.QAA18201@under.engr.sgi.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.95.990113010539.21704C-100000@svpal.svpal.org>

On Tue, 12 Jan 1999, J C Lawrence wrote:
> ...
> A feature I'm looking for in MailMan (and am willing to hack in as
> soon as I get time) is what I call "controlled lists".  Simply:
> 
>   -- by default subscribers can't post.
>   -- depending on list configuration their posts are either held for 
>      moderator approval or are silently bit-bucketted.
>   -- the list owner can tag specific subscribers such that their
>      posts are automatically approved (ie grant posting authority to 
>      that subscriber).

I thought you could do the above already, with the right settings.

1) set it so that all posts require approval
2) add addresses to the list of "subscribers who don't need approval"

That should do it...

-g

--
Greg Stein, http://www.lyra.org/






From klm at cnri.reston.va.us  Wed Jan 13 17:14:17 1999
From: klm at cnri.reston.va.us (Ken Manheimer)
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 11:14:17 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bug in b7?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SUN.3.95.990113004718.21704A-100000@svpal.svpal.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.990113110408.11144V-100000@glyph.cnri.reston.va.us>

On Wed, 13 Jan 1999, Greg Stein wrote:

> On Tue, 12 Jan 1999, Jason Wellman wrote:
> > ...
> > >    JW> 2) When I hit the listinfo page <whatever>/mailman/listinfo
> > >    JW> the publicly displayable lists (marked as so in the privacy
> > >    JW> options) do not show up.
> > >
> > >I've never seen that happen.  So none of your lists are showing up on
> > >the general page?  Are you seeing any errors in the logs/error file?
> > >If not, we'll have to get our hands dirty!
> > 
> > No related errors in the log files.  Just two from back when I ran b6.  This
> > isn't as big a deal, but I would like it to work. :)
> 
> Could this be due to the "per-virtual host" list option? I don't recall
> exactly how/where you set that, but I've got it set on my mailman
> installation. Lists will only appear if the hostname in the URL matches
> the hostname listed in the configuration for the "URL root" or whatever it
> is called.

Correct - jason, you might try adding the line:

VIRTUAL_HOST_OVERVIEW = 0

to the end of Mailman/mm_cfg.py.

By inhibiting VIRTUAL_HOST_OVERVIEW you set the overview pages to show
all the advertised hosts, not just the hosts which have a "preferred"
host name that's the same as the one by which people are getting to the
overview page.  If it works, then you may want to check the setting for
DEFAULT_HOST_NAME, also in mm_cfg.py (or Defaults.py in the same dir, if
it was never overridden).  You can also specify the preferred host name
on a per-list basis - it's one of the the options at the bottom of the
admin 'general options' page.

Ken Manheimer		  klm at python.org	    703 620-8990 x268
	    (orporation for National Research |nitiatives

	# If you appreciate Python, consider joining the PSA! #
		  # <http://www.python.org/psa/>. #






From davroc at hplb.hpl.hp.com  Wed Jan 13 17:51:22 1999
From: davroc at hplb.hpl.hp.com (David Rocher)
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 16:51:22 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] rename a mailing list
Message-ID: <19990113165122.A30351@rocher-d-1.hpl.hp.com>

 what are the steps to rename a mailing list foo to bar ?

 . change the aliases
 . archives/private/foo -> archives/private/bar
   archives/private/foo.mbox -> archives/private/bar.mbox
   archives/public/foo -> archives/public/bar
   archives/public/foo.mbox -> archives/public/bar.mbox
 . lists/foo/ -> lists/bar/
 . perhaps change something into lists/bar/config.db
 . perhaps change something into data/pending_subscriptions.db
 . locks/foo.lock -> locks/bar.lock

 is it enough and right ?
 perhaps a renamelist command should be better!
 
 David.



From gstein at lyra.org  Wed Jan 13 18:18:48 1999
From: gstein at lyra.org (Greg Stein)
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 09:18:48 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] BUG: virtual hosting (was Re: [Mailman-Users] Bug in b7?)
References: <Pine.GSO.3.96.990113110408.11144V-100000@glyph.cnri.reston.va.us>
Message-ID: <369CD578.3E955457@lyra.org>

Ken Manheimer wrote:
> On Wed, 13 Jan 1999, Greg Stein wrote:
> ...
> > Could this be due to the "per-virtual host" list option? I don't recall
> > exactly how/where you set that, but I've got it set on my mailman
> > installation. Lists will only appear if the hostname in the URL matches
> > the hostname listed in the configuration for the "URL root" or whatever it
> > is called.
> 
> Correct - jason, you might try adding the line:
> 
> VIRTUAL_HOST_OVERVIEW = 0
> 
> to the end of Mailman/mm_cfg.py.
> 
> By inhibiting VIRTUAL_HOST_OVERVIEW you set the overview pages to show
> all the advertised hosts, not just the hosts which have a "preferred"
> host name that's the same as the one by which people are getting to the
> overview page.  If it works, then you may want to check the setting for
> DEFAULT_HOST_NAME, also in mm_cfg.py (or Defaults.py in the same dir, if
> it was never overridden).  You can also specify the preferred host name
> on a per-list basis - it's one of the the options at the bottom of the
> admin 'general options' page.

Speaking of virtual hosts...

BUG REPORT:

When the automated, monthly reminder goes out, the text uses a host name
that might not apply to all the mailing lists in the combined
reminder(!).

I got a number of emails on January 1 when people received their mailing
list reminder for harleydavidson.com (I run a mailing list for that
domain). People couldn't quite see how the Python2C Announcement list
should be hosted on harleydavidson.com :-)

The combined report is cool and all :-), but I would recommend that it
only combines reports for lists on the same virtual host!

thx
-g

--
Greg Stein, http://www.lyra.org/



From klm at cnri.reston.va.us  Wed Jan 13 20:08:55 1999
From: klm at cnri.reston.va.us (Ken Manheimer)
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 14:08:55 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: [Mailman-Developers] BUG: virtual hosting (was Re: [Mailman-Users] Bug in b7?)
In-Reply-To: <369CD578.3E955457@lyra.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.990113135826.11144X-100000@glyph.cnri.reston.va.us>

On Wed, 13 Jan 1999, Greg Stein wrote:

> Speaking of virtual hosts...
> 
> BUG REPORT:
> 
> When the automated, monthly reminder goes out, the text uses a host name
> that might not apply to all the mailing lists in the combined
> reminder(!).
> 
> I got a number of emails on January 1 when people received their mailing
> list reminder for harleydavidson.com (I run a mailing list for that
> domain). People couldn't quite see how the Python2C Announcement list
> should be hosted on harleydavidson.com :-)

Yikes!  But with an amusing touch of irony, i must say:-)

> The combined report is cool and all :-), but I would recommend that it
> only combines reports for lists on the same virtual host!

Good point.  It should not be hard.  

All the relevant logic is in ~mailman/cron/mailpasswds.  The fragment
that does the grouping needs to be more discerning about how it groups,
factoring in virtual host, and then the messages need to be sent out as
if from mailman-admin on that virtual host.  (Hmm - that's a bit of a
problem, because currently mailman doesn't distinguish a number of
owners.  It can be kludged for now in mailpasswd, but a functional
interface should be created to provide an owner address distinguished by
host.)

If anyone want to look at it, please do so - but realize that changes to
mailpasswds requires good testing, because it only happens periodically,
and causes a lot of traffic, quite a nuisance if it goes awry.  I
usually test with a version where the actual sends are inhibited,
producing output to identify that it's doing what i want, before
committing anything.

If no one gets to it, i should before the end of the year.  (Kidding -
but i really do not know when i will next be able to change anything in
mailman and have adquate time for testing the changes - no point in
hacking if i can't be confident it works!)

Ken




From bwarsaw at cnri.reston.va.us  Thu Jan 14 05:18:45 1999
From: bwarsaw at cnri.reston.va.us (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 23:18:45 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] public archives are private
References: <13979.45421.27238.908230@anthem.cnri.reston.va.us>
	<XFMail.990113103109.andy@nachoz.com>
Message-ID: <13981.28709.293132.34157@anthem.cnri.reston.va.us>

>>>>> "AH" == Andy Harrison <andy at nachoz.com> writes:

    AH> I already had that option in.  The problem is that the
    AH> directory that the symlink points to does not exist.  There
    AH> are files in the directory, but they all end in *.mbox, which
    AH> the symlink does not point to.

The archives/private directory should have two directories for each
mailing list archives/private/listname/ which contains the Pipermail
output, and archives/private/listname.mbox/ which contains just the
listname.mbox file -- the accumulation of posts to the list as a
single file.

The archives/public directory contains two symlinks for each mailing
list that has public archives.  There's archives/public/listname which 
points to archives/private/listname/ and there's
archives/public/listname.mbox which points to
archives/private/listname.mbox/

Does your directory structure not look like this?

-Barry



From bwarsaw at cnri.reston.va.us  Thu Jan 14 05:21:19 1999
From: bwarsaw at cnri.reston.va.us (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 23:21:19 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] public archives are private
References: <1955368.3125148738@antwerp.med.nyu.edu>
Message-ID: <13981.28863.236273.103345@anthem.cnri.reston.va.us>

>>>>> "JB" == Jeff Berliner <jeff at endeavor.med.nyu.edu> writes:

    JB>      I added the order and allow as per the example provided,
    JB> but there is no restriction on the server.  I stopped and
    JB> restarted Apache, and even recreated (rmlist -a, and newlist)
    JB> my test list.  It still creates things properly in the private
    JB> directory, but my public directory remains empty (without even
    JB> a symbollic link for Apache to follow).  Am I missing
    JB> something still?  Apologies if this is me being brain dead...

Probably not, since you're not alone in reporting problems here.  Try
toggling the public/private archive option for the list and see if
those symlinks get created.  If not, check the error logs.  If you
still see nothing, then we'll have to figure something else out.


    JB> p.s. A little humor: One of my test lists was called "lunch",
    JB> for a co-worker and I to play with.  When looking at the
    JB> listinfo page, we got a laugh out of:

    JB>      "2 non-digested lunch users subscribed"

LOL!
-Barry



From andy at nachoz.com  Thu Jan 14 14:25:51 1999
From: andy at nachoz.com (Andy Harrison)
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 08:25:51 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] public archives are private
In-Reply-To: <13981.28709.293132.34157@anthem.cnri.reston.va.us>
Message-ID: <XFMail.990114082551.andy@nachoz.com>

On 14-Jan-99 Barry A. Warsaw wrote:
> 
>>>>>> "AH" == Andy Harrison <andy at nachoz.com> writes:
> 
>     AH> I already had that option in.  The problem is that the
>     AH> directory that the symlink points to does not exist.  There
>     AH> are files in the directory, but they all end in *.mbox, which
>     AH> the symlink does not point to.
> 
> The archives/private directory should have two directories for each
> mailing list archives/private/listname/ which contains the Pipermail
> output, and archives/private/listname.mbox/ which contains just the
> listname.mbox file -- the accumulation of posts to the list as a
> single file.
> 
> The archives/public directory contains two symlinks for each mailing
> list that has public archives.  There's archives/public/listname which 
> points to archives/private/listname/ and there's
> archives/public/listname.mbox which points to
> archives/private/listname.mbox/
> 
> Does your directory structure not look like this?
> 
> -Barry
> 
 
I just noticed that one of my lists is working fine, one that I created for
someone else.  The other is not.

One has the proper archive/private/listname and listname.mbox with the files
contained within.  The other only has the archive/private/listname.mbox and
does not contain any files (though mailing list operations are working
normally).

-------------------------
E-Mail:  Andy Harrison <andy at nachoz.com>
Date:  14-Jan-99
Time:  08:22:13

This message was sent by XFMail
---------------------------------



From jeff at endeavor.med.nyu.edu  Thu Jan 14 14:57:34 1999
From: jeff at endeavor.med.nyu.edu (Jeff Berliner)
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 08:57:34 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] public archives are private
Message-ID: <174379.3125293054@antwerp.med.nyu.edu>

--On Wed, Jan 13, 1999 11:21 PM -0500 "Barry A. Warsaw"
<bwarsaw at cnri.reston.va.us> wrote: 
> Probably not, since you're not alone in reporting problems here.  Try
> toggling the public/private archive option for the list and see if
> those symlinks get created.  If not, check the error logs.  If you
> still see nothing, then we'll have to figure something else out.

     I had tried toggling the public/private options originally, but did so
again, with no success.  If I manually create the symlink from public to
private, things work splendidly.

     My logs appear normal.  Error log is empty, and the others have normal
entries with nothing suspicious.  

     The only changes I had to make (and to the best of my judgement, they
shouldn't affect this stuff) during installation, were two SyntaxError's
one at line 696 of MailList.py a ',' and a '"' were transposed in a logging
call, and a seemingly unnecessary 'raise' at line 137 of
pythonlib/tempfile.py.  I didn't see these mentioned in the list archives,
so I figured I'd mention them.

                                                  - Jeff

--
Jeff Berliner                            jeff at popmail.med.nyu.edu 
Academic Computing,                      Phone: (212) 263-5744
New York University School of Medicine   Fax:   (212) 263-8542




From bwarsaw at cnri.reston.va.us  Fri Jan 15 03:36:29 1999
From: bwarsaw at cnri.reston.va.us (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 21:36:29 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Request: Unsubscribe options
References: <19990111203844.A14703@NrgUp.Com>
	<13979.44378.843103.670503@anthem.cnri.reston.va.us>
	<19990112155842.A21141@NrgUp.Com>
Message-ID: <13982.43437.115966.174986@anthem.cnri.reston.va.us>

>>>>> "JB" == Jonathan Bradshaw <jonathan at nrgup.com> writes:

    JB> In my mind, sending a confirmation with "you have been
    JB> unsubscribed, if this was not want you wanted to do, simply
    JB> hit reply" or something like that would accomplish that.

That's not a bad idea.

    JB> Maybe "allow open unsubscribes" is what I'm looking for?

I'll put it on the list.

Thanks,
-Barry



From bwarsaw at cnri.reston.va.us  Fri Jan 15 03:43:12 1999
From: bwarsaw at cnri.reston.va.us (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 21:43:12 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bug in b7?
References: <001701be3e79$272a4880$0100a8c0@shadowcat>
	<13980.3425.984929.131972@anthem.cnri.reston.va.us>
	<19990112222440.A16029@chronis.pobox.com>
Message-ID: <13982.43840.108131.202343@anthem.cnri.reston.va.us>

>>>>> "Scott" == scott cotton <scott at chronis.pobox.com> writes:

    Scott> IMO opinion the clearest interface would be to allow the
    Scott> admin to set a list of restrictions.  each restriction is
    Scott> checked in order, and the first matching restriction wins.
    Scott> each restriction may either permit the action or deny it.

>>>>> "HM" == Harald Meland <Harald.Meland at usit.uio.no> writes:

    HM> And, Scott's suggestion of making the posting restrictions
    HM> into some kind of ACL sounds conceptually very nice -- but I'm
    HM> wondering how well ACL editing will translate into a web UI.

I agree on both points.  Oh, well, after 1.0

-Barry



From bwarsaw at cnri.reston.va.us  Fri Jan 15 03:46:05 1999
From: bwarsaw at cnri.reston.va.us (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 21:46:05 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: [Mailman-Developers] Re: [Mailman-Users] Wierd Mailman problem
References: <13979.45070.392127.454362@anthem.cnri.reston.va.us>
	<XFMail.990113102030.andy@nachoz.com>
Message-ID: <13982.44013.659040.374536@anthem.cnri.reston.va.us>

>>>>> "AH" == Andy Harrison <andy at nachoz.com> writes:

    AH> What if messages have been posted to the list but the
    AH> archiving still isn't working?

Even if you toggle to private archiving, that doesn't work either?
What does the listing of the archives directory look like?

-Barry



From bwarsaw at cnri.reston.va.us  Fri Jan 15 03:51:05 1999
From: bwarsaw at cnri.reston.va.us (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 21:51:05 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] public archives are private
References: <13981.28709.293132.34157@anthem.cnri.reston.va.us>
	<XFMail.990114082551.andy@nachoz.com>
Message-ID: <13982.44313.240257.928789@anthem.cnri.reston.va.us>

>>>>> "AH" == Andy Harrison <andy at nachoz.com> writes:

    AH> One has the proper archive/private/listname and listname.mbox
    AH> with the files contained within.  The other only has the
    AH> archive/private/listname.mbox and does not contain any files
    AH> (though mailing list operations are working normally).

Was this possibly an older list that didn't get upgraded properly?

-Barry



From bwarsaw at cnri.reston.va.us  Fri Jan 15 04:04:54 1999
From: bwarsaw at cnri.reston.va.us (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 22:04:54 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] public archives are private
References: <174379.3125293054@antwerp.med.nyu.edu>
Message-ID: <13982.45142.866137.505424@anthem.cnri.reston.va.us>

>>>>> "JB" == Jeff Berliner <jeff at endeavor.med.nyu.edu> writes:

    JB>      I had tried toggling the public/private options
    JB> originally, but did so again, with no success.  If I manually
    JB> create the symlink from public to private, things work
    JB> splendidly.

You may have to put some debugging in the CheckHTMLArchiveDir()
function inside Archiver.py.  This is where the symlink gets created
or removed.

    JB>      The only changes I had to make (and to the best of my
    JB> judgement, they shouldn't affect this stuff) during
    JB> installation, were two SyntaxError's one at line 696 of
    JB> MailList.py a ',' and a '"' were transposed in a logging call,
    JB> and a seemingly unnecessary 'raise' at line 137 of
    JB> pythonlib/tempfile.py.  I didn't see these mentioned in the
    JB> list archives, so I figured I'd mention them.

These were SyntaxErrors?  The first looks okay to me (and I don't see
anything obvious in the CVS log), and for the second one that was
1.5.2 leakage that I've fixed in the current CVS source.

Thanks,
-Barry



From dgilbert at velocet.net  Fri Jan 15 05:24:41 1999
From: dgilbert at velocet.net (David Gilbert)
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 23:24:41 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman install problem.
In-Reply-To: <199901141703.MAA06532@python.org>
References: <199901141703.MAA06532@python.org>
Message-ID: <13982.49929.427432.557240@trooper.velocet.ca>

Right after installing mailman, I'm getting a real deluge of mail.
One common message is:


From root at trooper.velocet.ca  Mon Jan 11 00:42:02 1999
From: root at trooper.velocet.ca (Cron Daemon)
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 18:42:02 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Cron <mailman@trooper> /usr/local/bin/python /u/mailman/cron/run_queue
Message-ID: <199901102342.SAA04934@trooper.velocet.ca>

Traceback (innermost last):
  File "/u/mailman/cron/run_queue", line 29, in ?
    from Mailman import OutgoingQueue
ImportError: No module named Mailman


Dave.

-- 
============================================================================
|David Gilbert, Velocet Communications.       | Two things can only be     |
|Mail:       dgilbert at velocet.net             |  equal if and only if they |
|http://www.velocet.net/~dgilbert             |   are precisely opposite.  |
=========================================================GLO================



From bwarsaw at cnri.reston.va.us  Fri Jan 15 05:40:18 1999
From: bwarsaw at cnri.reston.va.us (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 23:40:18 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] [ANNOUNCE] Mailman 1.0b8
Message-ID: <13982.50866.34365.722114@anthem.cnri.reston.va.us>

While there are still a few outstanding problems reported by users, I
think we've nailed enough bugs since 1.0b7 to warrant a new release,
so I'm announcing 1.0b8 tonight.  As usual, feel free to pick it up
from www.list.org.

I think we're getting really close.  I'm hoping my last minute changes
didn't bust anything, and I'm also hoping we can nail down the last
few showstoppers people have reported (in particular the archiving
problems).  I also want to get Scott's envelope-sender change backed
out.

Please give 1.0b8 a shot and let us know if you have any problems.
Feel free to continue to send ideas and suggestions.  I'm in
conservative mode now though -- let's get 1.0 out so we can start
working on some of those cool ideas.

Thanks,
-Barry



From darren at jasper.somtel.com  Fri Jan 15 06:13:33 1999
From: darren at jasper.somtel.com (Darren Henderson)
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 00:13:33 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] cvs question
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.03.9901150003590.11987-100000@jasper.somtel.com>

Earlier tonight I attempted to do a cvs update...I wasn't having much luck
so I wiped out my directory and did another initial check out which went
just fine and picked up 1.0b7+....

As is the way of things we now have 1.0b8:) So...I try to do the update
again and I get the same kind of error message I was getting before.

cvs server: Updating .
P Makefile.in
cvs update: checksum failure after patch to ./Makefile.in; will refetch
cvs update: checksum failure after patch to ./Makefile.in; will refetch   

(It was indicating a differnt file the first time, I forget which)

I figure, ok, maybe much hasn't changed in the past few hours so I do the
install and update but the pages are still showing 1.0b7+.... So...what
bit of cvs am I messing up?

______________________________________________________________________
Darren Henderson                              darren at jasper.somtel.com

                   Help fight junk e-mail, visit http://www.cauce.org/




From darren at jasper.somtel.com  Fri Jan 15 06:26:41 1999
From: darren at jasper.somtel.com (Darren Henderson)
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 00:26:41 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] cvs question
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.03.9901150003590.11987-100000@jasper.somtel.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.03.9901150025420.11987-100000@jasper.somtel.com>

On Fri, 15 Jan 1999, Darren Henderson wrote:

> 
> Earlier tonight I attempted to do a cvs update...I wasn't having much luck

Weird... Just did   cvs up -P -d, leaving off the compression options, and
it worked for me just fine that way.

______________________________________________________________________
Darren Henderson                              darren at jasper.somtel.com

                   Help fight junk e-mail, visit http://www.cauce.org/




From jeff at endeavor.med.nyu.edu  Fri Jan 15 14:58:21 1999
From: jeff at endeavor.med.nyu.edu (Jeff Berliner)
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 08:58:21 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] public archives are private
Message-ID: <5375471.3125379501@antwerp.med.nyu.edu>

--On Thu, Jan 14, 1999 10:04 PM -0500 "Barry A. Warsaw"
<bwarsaw at cnri.reston.va.us> wrote: 
> These were SyntaxErrors?  The first looks okay to me (and I don't see
> anything obvious in the CVS log), and for the second one that was
> 1.5.2 leakage that I've fixed in the current CVS source.

     They were, boh caused by seemingly unnecessary raise statements. 
Unfortunately, my way of handling that was to break Mailman :(

     If I properly fix the error, by commenting out the raise, not the call
to self.CheckHTMLArchiveDir() (don't ask me why I did that, it was
late...), things work great.

     My apologies, and thanks for the help.  Now that it's working I can
upgrade to 1.0b8! :)

                                                  - Jeff

--
Jeff Berliner                            jeff at popmail.med.nyu.edu 
Academic Computing,                      Phone: (212) 263-5744
New York University School of Medicine   Fax:   (212) 263-8542




From jonathan at NrgUp.Com  Sat Jan 16 23:00:07 1999
From: jonathan at NrgUp.Com (Jonathan Bradshaw)
Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 17:00:07 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Info page sent to users not correct
Message-ID: <19990116170007.A10402@NrgUp.Com>

I have "send monthly reminders" turned off for my lists however the welcome
message says they will get a monthly reminder. Shouldn't it check the option?
If not, where can I change it so it doesn't tell them this?

-- 
 Jonathan Bradshaw <Jonathan at NrgUp.Com> | Novell 4.x CNE | Ham Callsign N9OXE
          "...I'm not one of those who think Bill Gates is the devil.
         I simply suspect that if Microsoft ever met up with the devil,
              it wouldn't need an interpreter."  -- Nick Petreley



From bwarsaw at cnri.reston.va.us  Sat Jan 16 22:01:43 1999
From: bwarsaw at cnri.reston.va.us (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 16:01:43 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] cvs question
References: <Pine.BSF.4.03.9901150003590.11987-100000@jasper.somtel.com>
Message-ID: <13984.65079.881653.701704@anthem.cnri.reston.va.us>

>>>>> "DH" == Darren Henderson <darren at jasper.somtel.com> writes:

    DH> Earlier tonight I attempted to do a cvs update...I wasn't
    DH> having much luck so I wiped out my directory and did another
    DH> initial check out which went just fine and picked up
    DH> 1.0b7+....

I'm glad you were finally able to get at the code.  However, the DC
area was slammed by a big ice storm on Friday and I know CNRI lost
power (my home was out for about 24 hours).  It looks like many
machines have come back up now, but cvs.python.org isn't one of them.
I'll send a message to our sysadmins, but it may be Monday before I
get that machine running again.

www.list.org looks functional, so you can pick the source for 1.0b8 up
from there.

-Barry



From bwarsaw at cnri.reston.va.us  Sat Jan 16 22:03:14 1999
From: bwarsaw at cnri.reston.va.us (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 16:03:14 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] public archives are private
References: <5375471.3125379501@antwerp.med.nyu.edu>
Message-ID: <13984.65170.220979.198127@anthem.cnri.reston.va.us>

>>>>> "JB" == Jeff Berliner <jeff at endeavor.med.nyu.edu> writes:

    JB>      My apologies, and thanks for the help.  Now that it's
    JB> working I can upgrade to 1.0b8! :)

Ah very good.  I think we're close to a 1.0 release now.  Just a few
small loose ends to attend to.  The next release ought to be release
candidate 1.

-Barry



From jeff at endeavor.med.nyu.edu  Fri Jan 15 17:11:58 1999
From: jeff at endeavor.med.nyu.edu (Jeff Berliner)
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 11:11:58 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] public archives are private
Message-ID: <5857886.3125387518@antwerp.med.nyu.edu>

--On Fri, Jan 15, 1999 8:58 AM -0500 "Jeff Berliner"
<jeff at popmail.med.nyu.edu> wrote: 

> 
>      My apologies, and thanks for the help.  Now that it's working I can
> upgrade to 1.0b8! :)

     FYI, I upgraded to 1.0b8 this morning.  The upgrade was flawless, and
the problems disappeared.  Thanks again, and sorry for wasting everyone's
time.

                                                  - Jeff

--
Jeff Berliner                            jeff at popmail.med.nyu.edu 
Academic Computing,                      Phone: (212) 263-5744
New York University School of Medicine   Fax:   (212) 263-8542




From jonathan at NrgUp.Com  Sun Jan 17 00:17:44 1999
From: jonathan at NrgUp.Com (Jonathan Bradshaw)
Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 18:17:44 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Never mind
Message-ID: <19990116181744.A10819@NrgUp.Com>

I found the templates :-( Somehow I didn't see them the first time I looked
through the directory.

-- 
 Jonathan Bradshaw <Jonathan at NrgUp.Com> | Novell 4.x CNE | Ham Callsign N9OXE
          "...I'm not one of those who think Bill Gates is the devil.
         I simply suspect that if Microsoft ever met up with the devil,
              it wouldn't need an interpreter."  -- Nick Petreley



From gstein at lyra.org  Sun Jan 17 02:22:54 1999
From: gstein at lyra.org (Greg Stein)
Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 17:22:54 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] cvs question
References: <Pine.BSF.4.03.9901150003590.11987-100000@jasper.somtel.com> <13984.65079.881653.701704@anthem.cnri.reston.va.us>
Message-ID: <36A13B6E.1DF53287@lyra.org>

Barry A. Warsaw wrote:
> 
> >>>>> "DH" == Darren Henderson <darren at jasper.somtel.com> writes:
> 
>     DH> Earlier tonight I attempted to do a cvs update...I wasn't
>     DH> having much luck so I wiped out my directory and did another
>     DH> initial check out which went just fine and picked up
>     DH> 1.0b7+....
> 
> I'm glad you were finally able to get at the code.  However, the DC
> area was slammed by a big ice storm on Friday and I know CNRI lost
> power (my home was out for about 24 hours).  It looks like many
> machines have come back up now, but cvs.python.org isn't one of them.
> I'll send a message to our sysadmins, but it may be Monday before I
> get that machine running again.
> 
> www.list.org looks functional, so you can pick the source for 1.0b8 up
> from there.

I've got UPSs and a 7000 watt generator... no way will I lose power!

Heh. In fact, when we had that snow storm a while back, I ran the
generator for over 20 hours. www.list.org never knew...

:-)

Cheers,
-g

p.s. yes, I run the list.org machine physically; logically in
conjunction with John.

--
Greg Stein, http://www.lyra.org/



From bwarsaw at cnri.reston.va.us  Sun Jan 17 19:44:04 1999
From: bwarsaw at cnri.reston.va.us (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 13:44:04 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] cvs.python.org down
Message-ID: <13986.12148.5127.295941@anthem.cnri.reston.va.us>

Folks,

Friday's ice storm in the DC area caused a power outage which lasted
long enough to crash www.python.org and cvs.python.org.  Guido (who
lives closer to CNRI than I do :-) tells me that the machine hosting
www.python.org had some hardware problems, so he and our sysadmins
cannibalized cvs.python.org in the interrim.  Tomorrow we'll see what
we need to get things back up, but in the meantime, the CVS mirror for
the Python source and Mailman source will be unreachable.

-Barry



From bwarsaw at cnri.reston.va.us  Sun Jan 17 19:44:53 1999
From: bwarsaw at cnri.reston.va.us (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 13:44:53 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] cvs question
References: <Pine.BSF.4.03.9901150003590.11987-100000@jasper.somtel.com>
	<13984.65079.881653.701704@anthem.cnri.reston.va.us>
	<36A13B6E.1DF53287@lyra.org>
Message-ID: <13986.12197.692796.293539@anthem.cnri.reston.va.us>

>>>>> "GS" == Greg Stein <gstein at lyra.org> writes:

    GS> I've got UPSs and a 7000 watt generator... no way will I lose
    GS> power!

    GS> Heh. In fact, when we had that snow storm a while back, I ran
    GS> the generator for over 20 hours. www.list.org never knew...

Knew we could count on ya Greg! :-)

-Barry



From nimh at morticia.ml.org  Mon Jan 18 00:52:28 1999
From: nimh at morticia.ml.org (Jason Wellman)
Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 17:52:28 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] A Highly desired feature. :)
Message-ID: <002601be4274$7cd620c0$0100a8c0@shadowcat>

Heya all,

Got a feature request from several of my mailman admins.

In the "general options" you can have replys goto the poster or the list.

It would greatly benefit me and mine if you could add the option of
specifying a reply to address for the list.  I can think of a lot of
instances where one would want to speciafy a specific address for all
replys, it is kinda neat option that I have seen on the other mailing list
software(s) I have used.  Actually mailman is the only one that I have seen
that didn't have it. :)

So what do you think?  Is this something you might consider adding to the
best listware out there? ;)  If you need some examples of use I can provide
several, but didn't want to bore you with them here. <G>


-- Jason Wellman




From nimh at morticia.ml.org  Mon Jan 18 19:10:54 1999
From: nimh at morticia.ml.org (Jason Wellman)
Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 12:10:54 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] An error message
Message-ID: <002d01be430d$eae27ca0$0100a8c0@shadowcat>

Hey all,

I have gotten this error from cron once before, was wondering exactly what
this means.

Traceback (innermost last):
  File "/home/mailman/cron/run_queue", line 31, in ?
    OutgoingQueue.processQueue()
  File "/home/mailman/Mailman/OutgoingQueue.py", line 121, in processQueue
    Utils.TrySMTPDelivery(recip,sender,text,full_fname)
  File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Utils.py", line 217, in TrySMTPDelivery
    OutgoingQueue.dequeueMessage(queue_entry)
  File "/home/mailman/Mailman/OutgoingQueue.py", line 179, in dequeueMessage
    os.unlink(q_entry)
os.error: (2, 'No such file or directory')

Ideas?

-- Jason Wellman




From bwarsaw at cnri.reston.va.us  Mon Jan 18 22:25:08 1999
From: bwarsaw at cnri.reston.va.us (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 16:25:08 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] cvs.python.org back on-line
Message-ID: <13987.42676.406901.527665@anthem.cnri.reston.va.us>

cvs.python.org is now back on-line, and the public CVS trees for
Python, Mailman, and the Distutils-SIG have been manually resync'd.

Please email me directly if you have any problems contacting this
machine.

Thanks,
-Barry



From bwarsaw at cnri.reston.va.us  Tue Jan 19 06:15:59 1999
From: bwarsaw at cnri.reston.va.us (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 00:15:59 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman logo submission
Message-ID: <13988.5391.688604.511812@anthem.cnri.reston.va.us>

Hi folks, we have our first Mailman logo submission!  Heidi Henderson
has contributed a very cool logo -- see www.list.org for the large and 
small version.

-Barry



From clark.evans at manhattanproject.com  Wed Jan 20 04:38:39 1999
From: clark.evans at manhattanproject.com (Clark Evans)
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 03:38:39 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: Passwords
References: <199901192257.RAA18639@python.org> <36A51A8E.14ED1569@manhattanproject.com>
Message-ID: <36A54FBF.3D63B111@manhattanproject.com>

WOW!  Very cool.   I'm off to play and try it out!

I'm just in love with the bitmap.. and so far the 
installation looks easy!  Also, to have a personal
page with options and an archive is just a dream!

Anyway...

I'm sure you here this often, but I was just playing
with the program on python.org, and you need 
PASSWORDS?  

Can this be disabled?  I mean, the world has enough 
passwords.  If some sick puppy wants to "unsubscribe" 
me or change me to digest form, as a cruel trick, 
then that's fine.  I'd rather take the chance, rather 
than have to maintain _yet another_ password. 

Rather than a password, perhaps a confirmation
e-mail might be a better approach.  

The #1 concern for a mailing list user is to
get off fast when it's not your pea soup....
trying to find that password when you want
it is _always_ a pain.  Sending it every 
month doesn't help, it just clutters the inbox.

Thus, here is the (obvious) question:

	Could the system allow signup with
        an OPTIONAL password?

This way the user is in control and the 
software serves the user, not the user
serving the software  -- which seems to be
the trend if you are on any windows computer
with those constant, demanding, popup dialog
boxes telling the user what they can do, when
they can do it, and how it should be done.  
After a while you wondering who is serving who...


Anyway, I had another idea, to help "mortal"
users along:

	By default, at the bottom of every message
	put a link the user's subscription page, 
	the current list archive, how to unsubscribe
	via e-mail, and, finally, how they can
	disable the trailer (/w option on 
	subscription page)

This would be _slick_.

Wow.  Cool product.  Now to get it to work... 

:) Clark Evans



From jonathan at NrgUp.Com  Wed Jan 20 14:10:11 1999
From: jonathan at NrgUp.Com (Jonathan Bradshaw)
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 08:10:11 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] HTML messages
Message-ID: <19990120081011.A8287@NrgUp.Com>

Does anyone have any ideas (or maybe this is a "feature" to be implemented?)
on how to fix those annoying messages that include the same thing in HTML...
the trouble is most people who do that are newbies and don't have a clue how
to turn it off. I'd simply like to "Strip all attachments" type option.
(Especially for digests...)

Ideas?

Thanks,

Jonathan

-- 
 Jonathan Bradshaw <Jonathan at NrgUp.Com> | Novell 4.x CNE | Ham Callsign N9OXE
          "...I'm not one of those who think Bill Gates is the devil.
         I simply suspect that if Microsoft ever met up with the devil,
              it wouldn't need an interpreter."  -- Nick Petreley



From klm at cnri.reston.va.us  Wed Jan 20 18:11:19 1999
From: klm at cnri.reston.va.us (Ken Manheimer)
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 12:11:19 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: Passwords
In-Reply-To: <36A54FBF.3D63B111@manhattanproject.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.990120114001.6266e-100000@glyph.cnri.reston.va.us>

On Wed, 20 Jan 1999, Clark Evans wrote:

> WOW!  Very cool.   I'm off to play and try it out!

Great!

> [...]
> I'm sure you here this often, but I was just playing
> with the program on python.org, and you need 
> PASSWORDS?  
> 
> Can this be disabled?  I mean, the world has enough 
> passwords.  If some sick puppy wants to "unsubscribe" 
> me or change me to digest form, as a cruel trick, 
> then that's fine.  I'd rather take the chance, rather 
> than have to maintain _yet another_ password. 

What if you didn't actually have to remember the password?

In fact, you can use mailman to remember your password for you.  Any
time that you need it to, eg, make options changes or unsubscribe, you
hit the button on your options page that sends it to you.  It's an extra
step - but you always have the option of remembering the password, and
avoiding the step. 

One way or the other, though, some additional time/attention has to be
paid. I see this as being inevitable.  Why?  You might consider that the
cost to individual subscribers for mischief that can happen in the
absence of passwords to be low, but the real problem is one of scaling. 

Maillist administrators will tend to hear of each such incident, and
site administrators will hear about some of them.  Not much of a problem
when there are few members, but what about when maillists have hundreds
and thousands of members, and sites have many many maillists?  Small
nuisances become major, even crippling problems - the unregulated
scenario does not scale up.

Scalability is usually the underlying theme in the network
communications world. 

There are other benefits.  Things like confidence - you might not care
about missing a few messages on the classic cars mailing list, but you
want to be sure someone hasn't messed with your subscription to your
bosses' employee/projects updates list, etc. 

The upshot is that some energy investment is necessary to regulate
access.  The question is how best to balance the investment so it is not
too heavy, not too light.  (I've gotten complaints that the security is
too _lax_ - eg, passwords sent in the clear, via email.)  I happen to
think that the balance we've reached - mostly just what john viega
originally implemented, at least for the subscriber passwords - is
pretty well tailored to the needs. 

> 	Could the system allow signup with
>         an OPTIONAL password?

This is worth considering.  For the reasons i mention above, it's not
clear to me that it's a win.  I'm inclined to prefer to prevent
subscribers from taking the lazy way out, if it means avoiding serious
potential scaling nuisances for the administrators.

> 	By default, at the bottom of every message
> 	put a link the user's subscription page, 
> 	the current list archive, how to unsubscribe
> 	via e-mail, and, finally, how they can
> 	disable the trailer (/w option on 
> 	subscription page)

Another cool idea.  This is something that we probably would do but,
once again, scaling comes into play, big time.  The message transmission
mechanism batches together recipients for the sake of efficiency.  This
means that multiple recipient receive identical messages.  This can be a
big win for large lists, both in terms of system load and posting
turnaround time.  The redeeming thing is that subscribers can relatively
easily get to their subscription address from the listinfo URL, which is
included at the bottom of each message...

Ken Manheimer		  klm at python.org	    703 620-8990 x268
	    (orporation for National Research |nitiatives

	# If you appreciate Python, consider joining the PSA! #
		  # <http://www.python.org/psa/>. #




From petrilli at amber.org  Wed Jan 20 19:16:42 1999
From: petrilli at amber.org (Christopher G. Petrilli)
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 13:16:42 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] HTML messages
In-Reply-To: <19990120081011.A8287@NrgUp.Com>; from Jonathan Bradshaw on Wed, Jan 20, 1999 at 08:10:11AM -0500
References: <19990120081011.A8287@NrgUp.Com>
Message-ID: <19990120131642.61633@amber.org>

On Wed, Jan 20, 1999 at 08:10:11AM -0500, Jonathan Bradshaw wrote:
> Does anyone have any ideas (or maybe this is a "feature" to be implemented?)
> on how to fix those annoying messages that include the same thing in HTML...
> the trouble is most people who do that are newbies and don't have a clue how
> to turn it off. I'd simply like to "Strip all attachments" type option.
> (Especially for digests...)
> 
> Ideas?

In fact, having run many mailing lists, they are almost always (99%
probability) Outlook Express users... which defaults to such stupidity.
I find that beating them severely about the head area does a wonderful
job, but I fear the legal consequences :-)

On that note, could we perhaps have an option to strip everything off an
email that isn't raw text?  If what's left is nothing, then bounce it
back to the originator with a complaint :-)

Hmm, wonder how hard that is with MIMEtools.

Chris
-- 
| Christopher Petrilli
| petrilli at amber.org



From jwm at plain.co.nz  Thu Jan 21 01:20:02 1999
From: jwm at plain.co.nz (John Morton)
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 13:20:02 +1300 (NZDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Running Mailman, webs server and mail transport on separate servers.
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.3.96.990120114001.6266e-100000@glyph.cnri.reston.va.us>
References: <36A54FBF.3D63B111@manhattanproject.com>
	<Pine.GSO.3.96.990120114001.6266e-100000@glyph.cnri.reston.va.us>
Message-ID: <13990.26532.355187.402165@antares.plain.co.nz>

Hi,

In the LISA XII paper, there's a brief discussion about it being
possible to run Mailman, a web server and the mail transport all on
separate machines (page 310 under 'Web Interfaces to Mailing Lists,
paragraph 4)  , but few details of how this is achieved. 

Our scenario:

We've got a collection of clients with virtual domain web sites hosted 
on both a Linux box and an NT box. Mailman (and the mail transport)
reside on another machine. 

We want to be able to supply mailing list services to clients whose
customized web interfaces appear to live under there domain
(ie. http://site.on.the.NT.box/mailman/listinfo/theirlist) but all the 
action actually happens on the mail machine. 

My current guess is that this will require setting 'Host name this
list prefers' and 'Base URL form Mailman web interface' options to the 
particular virtual domain, and setting up wrapper scripts on the web
machine that pass the cgi arguments to the real cgi program on the
mail machine via ssh. And a quick look at the Defaults.py shows that
the SMTP server can be pointed to something other than localhost
(though that's not an issue here).

I'm looking to put together a HOWTO type of file about this sort of
setup, so if anyone can mail me any good solutions, past experience,
cases where this setup is preferable to installing mailman on the
server machine, and so on, I'll post a summary back to the list.

John.



From gstein at lyra.org  Thu Jan 21 04:45:32 1999
From: gstein at lyra.org (Greg Stein)
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 19:45:32 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Running Mailman, webs server and mail transport on separate servers.
References: <36A54FBF.3D63B111@manhattanproject.com>
		<Pine.GSO.3.96.990120114001.6266e-100000@glyph.cnri.reston.va.us> <13990.26532.355187.402165@antares.plain.co.nz>
Message-ID: <36A6A2DC.3504774E@lyra.org>

John Morton wrote:
> ...
> We've got a collection of clients with virtual domain web sites hosted
> on both a Linux box and an NT box. Mailman (and the mail transport)
> reside on another machine.
> 
> We want to be able to supply mailing list services to clients whose
> customized web interfaces appear to live under there domain
> (ie. http://site.on.the.NT.box/mailman/listinfo/theirlist) but all the
> action actually happens on the mail machine.
> 
> My current guess is that this will require setting 'Host name this
> list prefers' and 'Base URL form Mailman web interface' options to the
> particular virtual domain, and setting up wrapper scripts on the web
> machine that pass the cgi arguments to the real cgi program on the
> mail machine via ssh. And a quick look at the Defaults.py shows that
> the SMTP server can be pointed to something other than localhost
> (though that's not an issue here).

I run a similar setup: the relevant machines are: three Linux boxes and
an NT box; one Linux box is the list machine, another Linux is the mail
exchanger, the third Linux box and the NT box are web servers. In my
case, I configure a new hostname: mailman.domain.com and set that to the
Base URL.

For example:

List is: pycom-dev
Host name: pythonpros.com
URL: http://mailman.pythonpros.com/mailman/

People send to pycom-dev at pythonpros.com. That mail is handled on the
mail exchanger box. Visiting www.pythonpros.com brings you to a
Linux-based web server. Mailman runs on mailman.pythonpros.com which is
on the third Linux box.

The NT box is a colocated box which runs some other domains' web sites.
Their mail and mailing lists are handled by the appropriate linux box.

Yah, seems like overkill on the number of machines, but then again:
they're mostly 486's with small memory; and I don't want to run a beta
Mailman on the mail exchanger (which is also primary DNS) since I've
seen earlier Mailman versions bumble the box.

Cheers,
-g

--
Greg Stein, http://www.lyra.org/



From tomas at euronetics.se  Thu Jan 21 09:37:01 1999
From: tomas at euronetics.se (Tomas Fasth)
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 09:37:01 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] nomail setting not honored (1.0b8)
Message-ID: <00fd01be4519$37962bc0$f6d52dc1@bishop.twinspot.net>

Hi.
I recently installed 1.0b8 and after some testing put it in production work.
On a list of 80+ subscribers I checked nomail option on everybody but myself
using admin/.../members page.
Sending a message intended for test to me only was sent to all subscribers
(including me).
Mailman (1.0b8) seem not to honor the nomail setting. Anyone else having
similar experiences?

Tomas





From julian7 at kva.hu  Thu Jan 21 11:27:36 1999
From: julian7 at kva.hu (Balazs Nagy)
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 11:27:36 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] nomail setting not honored (1.0b8)
In-Reply-To: <00fd01be4519$37962bc0$f6d52dc1@bishop.twinspot.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.04.9901211126230.1974-100000@krondor.kva.hu>

On Thu, 21 Jan 1999, Tomas Fasth wrote:

> Sending a message intended for test to me only was sent to all subscribers
> (including me).

I tried it in my test list (two recipients, a nomail and a normal user) and
it worked well.

> Mailman (1.0b8) seem not to honor the nomail setting. Anyone else having
> similar experiences?

Nope.

Regards: Balazs
-- 
#!/bin/perl -sp0777i<X+d*lMLa^*lN%0]dsXx++lMlN/dsM0<j]dsj
$/=unpack('H*',$_);$_=`echo 16dio\U$k"SK$/SM$n\EsN0p[lN*1
lK[d2%Sa2/d0$^Ixp"|dc`;s/\W//g;$_=pack('H*',/((..)*)$/)




From bwarsaw at cnri.reston.va.us  Sat Jan 23 00:26:07 1999
From: bwarsaw at cnri.reston.va.us (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 18:26:07 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] nomail setting not honored (1.0b8)
References: <00fd01be4519$37962bc0$f6d52dc1@bishop.twinspot.net>
	<Pine.LNX.4.04.9901211126230.1974-100000@krondor.kva.hu>
Message-ID: <13993.2319.446189.219468@anthem.cnri.reston.va.us>

>>>>> "BN" == Balazs Nagy <julian7 at kva.hu> writes:

    >> Mailman (1.0b8) seem not to honor the nomail setting. Anyone
    >> else having similar experiences?

    BN> Nope.

Seems to be working just fine for me too.

Tomas, do you think you could look into this in more detail?

-Barry



From grin at tolna.net  Sun Jan 24 05:11:12 1999
From: grin at tolna.net (Peter Gervai)
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1999 05:11:12 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] archieving w/o html
Message-ID: <19990124051112.G20888@mail.tolna.net>

Hello,

Is it possible to archive the list into the mbox format
while not creating the html?

bye,
grin

ps: this MHonArc is truly amazing piece of mbox->html
formatter. handles just everything.



From julian7 at kva.hu  Sun Jan 24 11:32:41 1999
From: julian7 at kva.hu (Balazs Nagy)
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1999 11:32:41 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] archieving w/o html
In-Reply-To: <19990124051112.G20888@mail.tolna.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.04.9901241129200.24110-100000@krondor.kva.hu>

On Sun, 24 Jan 1999, Peter Gervai wrote:

> Hello,
> 
> Is it possible to archive the list into the mbox format
> while not creating the html?

Yes.  You have to put ARCHIVE_TO_MBOX = 1 to your mm_cfg file.

Regards: Balazs
-- 
#!/usr/bin/perl -export-a-crypto-system-sig -http://dcs.ex.ac.uk/~aba/rsa
print pack"C*",split/\D+/,`echo "16iII*o\U@{$/=$z;[(pop,pop,unpack"H*",<>
)]}\EsMsKsN0[lN*1lK[d2%Sa2/d0<X+d*lMLa^*lN%0]dsXx++lMlN/dsM0<J]dsJxp"|dc`




From tomas at euronetics.se  Sun Jan 24 12:31:35 1999
From: tomas at euronetics.se (Tomas Fasth)
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1999 12:31:35 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] nomail setting not honored (1.0b8)
References: <00fd01be4519$37962bc0$f6d52dc1@bishop.twinspot.net>
		<Pine.LNX.4.04.9901211126230.1974-100000@krondor.kva.hu> <13993.2319.446189.219468@anthem.cnri.reston.va.us>
Message-ID: <36AB0497.B62E98B5@euronetics.se>

"Barry A. Warsaw" wrote:

>     >> Mailman (1.0b8) seem not to honor the nomail setting. Anyone
>     >> else having similar experiences?
>
>     BN> Nope.
>
> Seems to be working just fine for me too.
>
> Tomas, do you think you could look into this in more detail?

So I did, and I can not reproduce it. Please excuse for the false alarm.

Tomas





From bwarsaw at cnri.reston.va.us  Sun Jan 24 20:45:57 1999
From: bwarsaw at cnri.reston.va.us (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1999 14:45:57 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] HTML messages
References: <19990120081011.A8287@NrgUp.Com>
Message-ID: <13995.30837.912896.6128@anthem.cnri.reston.va.us>

>>>>> "JB" == Jonathan Bradshaw <jonathan at NrgUp.Com> writes:

    JB> Does anyone have any ideas (or maybe this is a "feature" to be
    JB> implemented?)  on how to fix those annoying messages that
    JB> include the same thing in HTML...  the trouble is most people
    JB> who do that are newbies and don't have a clue how to turn it
    JB> off. I'd simply like to "Strip all attachments" type option.
    JB> (Especially for digests...)

While I find this very annoying too, under the Theory of Least Munging
I'm leary of hacking Mailman to do this kind of filtering.  I think
it's better to educate users -- in my experience most will reset the
defaults when the problem is explained in a friendly and helpful
manner.

That said, something I'd like to see happen in a future version would
be an extensible filtering framework.  This could be used to support
the feature you're looking for.

-Barry



From tomas at euronetics.se  Sun Jan 24 22:52:04 1999
From: tomas at euronetics.se (Tomas Fasth)
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1999 22:52:04 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] HTML messages
References: <19990120081011.A8287@NrgUp.Com> <13995.30837.912896.6128@anthem.cnri.reston.va.us>
Message-ID: <36AB9604.9629168C@euronetics.se>

"Barry A. Warsaw" wrote:

> While I find this very annoying too, under the Theory of Least Munging
> I'm leary of hacking Mailman to do this kind of filtering.  I think
> it's better to educate users -- in my experience most will reset the
> defaults when the problem is explained in a friendly and helpful
> manner.

While I'm usually a follower of the above mentioned theory, I cannot
avoid pointing out that HTML enhanced messaging is a minimum requirement
in many places these days. If not for another reason than being more
"pretty".
Besides, HTML documents is only one among many types of attachments you
might want to share with others in a mailing list, probably a
non-technical one, but still...

"Oh no, not yet another 12 megs of word document!" ;-)

	Tomas



From petrilli at amber.org  Mon Jan 25 04:50:50 1999
From: petrilli at amber.org (Christopher G. Petrilli)
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1999 22:50:50 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] HTML messages
In-Reply-To: <36AB9604.9629168C@euronetics.se>; from Tomas Fasth on Sun, Jan 24, 1999 at 10:52:04PM +0100
References: <19990120081011.A8287@NrgUp.Com> <13995.30837.912896.6128@anthem.cnri.reston.va.us> <36AB9604.9629168C@euronetics.se>
Message-ID: <19990124225050.33433@amber.org>

On Sun, Jan 24, 1999 at 10:52:04PM +0100, Tomas Fasth wrote:
> "Barry A. Warsaw" wrote:
> 
> > While I find this very annoying too, under the Theory of Least Munging
> > I'm leary of hacking Mailman to do this kind of filtering.  I think
> > it's better to educate users -- in my experience most will reset the
> > defaults when the problem is explained in a friendly and helpful
> > manner.
> 
> While I'm usually a follower of the above mentioned theory, I cannot
> avoid pointing out that HTML enhanced messaging is a minimum requirement
> in many places these days. If not for another reason than being more
> "pretty".

Having just started working with Mailman (and thinking about moving a
few dozen LISTSERV lists to it), I'm of the opinion that there are two
totally different user groups:

* Internet mailing lists (what I mostly run)
* INternal mailing lists

On the former, it is VERY bad behaviour to send HTML, or anything like
that, it's also generally considered bad behaviour to send attachments
(I ban people from lists for both if repeated)...  On the latter, well,
anything goes because you can assume most people are using similar
equipment.  Given I read news with Mutt on UNIX, HTML is fugly for me...
and most attachments are useless.

> Besides, HTML documents is only one among many types of attachments you
> might want to share with others in a mailing list, probably a
> non-technical one, but still...

See above.

> "Oh no, not yet another 12 megs of word document!" ;-)

People have been burned at the stake for less in this country :-)

Chris
-- 
| Christopher Petrilli
| petrilli at amber.org



From bwarsaw at cnri.reston.va.us  Mon Jan 25 05:20:07 1999
From: bwarsaw at cnri.reston.va.us (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1999 23:20:07 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] HTML messages
References: <19990120081011.A8287@NrgUp.Com>
	<13995.30837.912896.6128@anthem.cnri.reston.va.us>
	<36AB9604.9629168C@euronetics.se>
Message-ID: <13995.61687.990970.86418@anthem.cnri.reston.va.us>

>>>>> "TF" == Tomas Fasth <tomas at euronetics.se> writes:

    TF> While I'm usually a follower of the above mentioned theory, I
    TF> cannot avoid pointing out that HTML enhanced messaging is a
    TF> minimum requirement in many places these days.

Are you serious?!  A *requirement*?  I'd scream loudly if this was
forced on me.  I use VM/XEmacs so I can handle MIME and usually
HTMLified email is just an annoyance, but because there are so many
MUAs out there, many which do not handle HTML in news or mail, I
always point this out to people when I get such email.  I can't
remember a time when someone responded that this was a requirement and 
it was my tough luck.
    
I suppose there are lots of shops where Netscape is foisted on people
as their only choice, but still, if they want to communicate with the
rest of the world, they better learn how to do it right or many people 
will just ignore them.

-Barry



From tomas at euronetics.se  Mon Jan 25 10:48:37 1999
From: tomas at euronetics.se (Tomas Fasth)
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 10:48:37 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] HTML messages
References: <19990120081011.A8287@NrgUp.Com>
		<13995.30837.912896.6128@anthem.cnri.reston.va.us>
		<36AB9604.9629168C@euronetics.se> <13995.61687.990970.86418@anthem.cnri.reston.va.us>
Message-ID: <36AC3DF5.70B96B86@euronetics.se>

"Barry A. Warsaw" wrote:

> >>>>> "TF" == Tomas Fasth <tomas at euronetics.se> writes:
> 
>     TF> While I'm usually a follower of the above mentioned theory, I
>     TF> cannot avoid pointing out that HTML enhanced messaging is a
>     TF> minimum requirement in many places these days.
> 
> Are you serious?!  A *requirement*?

I'm sorry, I hereby redraw that statement.
Somehow I mixed things up in my head.
A more correct assertion would be:

"MIME enhanced messaging is a requirement in many places these days"
Many places ==> Where the alphabet consists of non-ascii characters.

Which is a whole different issue. Beseides, Mailman message delivery
mechanism is fairly MIME transparent. The problem arises when you want
to localize the administrative web and mail interfaces. That can easily
turn into a can of worms.

> I suppose there are lots of shops where Netscape is foisted on people
> as their only choice, but still, if they want to communicate with the
> rest of the world, they better learn how to do it right or many people
> will just ignore them.

I can only agree with you. Never the less, the problem is mounting as
the installed base of Netscape Communicator, Outlook Express and alikes
increase and as they usually have text/html as the default setting.

	Tomas



From follower at acm.njit.edu  Mon Jan 25 10:59:52 1999
From: follower at acm.njit.edu (John Rizzo)
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 04:59:52 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bug error
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.990125045834.24682C-100000@acm.njit.edu>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

Hey guys. I installed mailman 1.0b8 and while administering one of the
lists I got this error.. I hope maybe this info will help make the final
release more stable :)

Bug in Mailman version 1.0b8

We're sorry, we hit a bug!

If you would like to help us identify the problem, please email a copy of
this page to the webmaster for this site with a description of what
happened. Thanks! 

Traceback:


Traceback (innermost last):
  File "/home/mailman/scripts/driver", line 112, in run_main
    main()
  File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/admindb.py", line 77, in main
    doc.AddItem(eader(2, "Invalid options to CGI script."))
NameError: eader





Environment variables:

 Variable
                            Value
 DOCUMENT_ROOT 
                            /var/www 
 HTTP_ACCEPT_ENCODING 
                            gzip 
 SERVER_PORT 
                            80 
 PATH_TRANSLATED 
                            /var/www/ 
 REMOTE_ADDR 
                            199.173.160.198 
 GATEWAY_INTERFACE 
                            CGI/1.1 
 HTTP_ACCEPT_LANGUAGE 
                            en 
 REMOTE_PORT 
                            44273 
 SERVER_NAME 
                            acm.njit.edu 
 HTTP_CONNECTION 
                            Keep-Alive 
 HTTP_USER_AGENT 
                            Mozilla/4.06 [en] (X11; U; SunOS 5.6 sun4m) 
 HTTP_ACCEPT_CHARSET 
                            iso-8859-1,*,utf-8 
 HTTP_ACCEPT 
                            image/gif, image/x-xbitmap, image/jpeg,
image/pjpeg, image/png, */* 
 REQUEST_URI 
                            /mailman/admindb/ 
 PATH 

/usr/local/sbin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/sbin:/usr/bin:/sbin:/bin:/usr/X11R6/bin:/home/follower/bin 
 QUERY_STRING 
 SCRIPT_FILENAME 
                            /home/mailman/cgi-bin/admindb 
 PATH_INFO 
                            / 
 HTTP_HOST 
                            acm.njit.edu 
 REQUEST_METHOD 
                            GET 
 SERVER_SIGNATURE 
                            Apache/1.3.4 Server at acm.njit.edu Port 80
 SCRIPT_NAME 
                            /mailman/admindb 
 SERVER_ADMIN 
                            follower at acm.njit.edu 
 SERVER_SOFTWARE 
                            Apache/1.3.4 (Unix) mod_ssl/2.1.7
SSLeay/0.9.0b 
 PYTHONPATH 
                            /home/mailman 
 HTTP_COOKIE 
                            members-admin=181490390;
cabinet-admin=-544477361 
 SERVER_PROTOCOL 
                            HTTP/1.0 


John Rizzo - ACM President
follower at acm.njit.edu

~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
- -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----
Version: 2.6.3a

mQCNAzakTF8AAAEEANsBiLilWKtSYsxTyjcClaXqjhxNKq7PgwwEBLYghIg7J/aG
BNcEili+f2bflbz8t/rnlIy8aEBcfDXatYfUrG/VAJ/HBSnRrVQokPvIJ+CzWeYh
oEqjjALrOL6PJgX7IVi3hcdbYDo2lIDAI9v7z7TDr9ywnlCN0Q+U9b0z4kxFAAUR
tCRKb2huIEQgUml6em8gPGZvbGxvd2VyQGFjbS5uaml0LmVkdT6JAJUDBRA2pEyP
D5T1vTPiTEUBAXXXA/44i8fFoI4uCzeIOK1rHTRCUG2qaWFa1EBB8wFi06dI6Ueo
HyuPHKxpQNhc9/IziKH2K77oiSFxJmIXGd0vXJi7q+Ekhf3XbwXqchpuaWo4ryMy
8FaMitzlXXNYD6D6taRKQKqWyfJvafef6x1p2ZeygRQK99/pz958nc+IsHRBOA==
=kT6b
- -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: 2.6.3a
Charset: noconv

iQCVAwUBNqxAng+U9b0z4kxFAQHzmwQAwCmQ7yIpZe30pz5z0X2EI/8zIIcM2/UL
/mrCtwfCLqMPQMNiyqCTBeZZb3/Rp9f6in6/8cL8THgIxRCQKzDw6dUZmhR6zH5S
hgoaEvLd9+ZrDwFUauzYMn7LaH8yzrLJrf4N9uVpiH2qa+Y3Dm30dvYvsGp3JmB/
3H58OisO+5o=
=7KuE
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----




From jian at t2v.com  Mon Jan 25 11:26:53 1999
From: jian at t2v.com (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Jos=E9?= Ignacio Aljaro =?iso-8859-1?Q?N=FA=F1ez?=)
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 11:26:53 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bug error
Message-ID: <36AC46ED.F389845B@t2v.com>

Hi!

When I wanted to delete a member of the list I got this error:

Traceback:


Traceback (innermost last):
  File "/home/mailman/scripts/driver", line 102, in run_main
    main()
  File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/admin.py", line 159, in main
    ChangeOptions(lst, category, cgi_data, doc)
  File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/admin.py", line 771, in ChangeOptions
    lst.DeleteMember(user)
  File "/home/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 802, in DeleteMember
    raise Errors.MMNoSuchUserError
MMNoSuchUserError





Environment variables:

 Variable
                               Value
 DOCUMENT_ROOT
                               /home/httpd/html
 UNIQUE_ID
                               NqxRBsIeEzIAAG7KxVs
 HTTP_ACCEPT_ENCODING
                               gzip
 CONTENT_TYPE
                               application/x-www-form-urlencoded
 PATH_TRANSLATED
                               /home/httpd/html/malagacf/members
 HTTP_ACCEPT
                               image/gif, image/x-xbitmap, image/jpeg,
image/pjpeg, image/png, */*
 GATEWAY_INTERFACE
                               CGI/1.1
 SERVER_PROTOCOL
                               HTTP/1.0
 HTTP_ACCEPT_LANGUAGE
                               en
 REMOTE_PORT
                               61513
 SERVER_PORT
                               80
 HTTP_CONNECTION
                               Keep-Alive
 HTTP_USER_AGENT
                               Mozilla/4.5 [en] (Win98; I)
 HTTP_ACCEPT_CHARSET
                               iso-8859-1,*,utf-8
 CONTENT_LENGTH
                               1968
 REQUEST_URI
                               /mailman/admin/malagacf/members
 SERVER_NAME
                               www.t2v.com
 PATH
                               /sbin:/usr/sbin:/bin:/usr/bin
 QUERY_STRING
 SCRIPT_FILENAME
                               /home/mailman/cgi-bin/admin
 PATH_INFO
                               /malagacf/members
 HTTP_HOST
                               www.t2v.com
 REQUEST_METHOD
                               POST
 SCRIPT_NAME
                               /mailman/admin
 SERVER_ADMIN
                               root at t2v.com
 SERVER_SOFTWARE
                               Apache/1.3.1 (Unix) PHP/3.0.3
 PYTHONPATH
                               /home/mailman
 HTTP_COOKIE
                               malagacf-admin=2054577904
 REMOTE_ADDR
                               194.30.16.25
 HTTP_REFERER

http://www.t2v.com/mailman/admin/malagacf/members

--
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Jos? Ignacio Aljaro N??ez, Estudiante Esc. Sup. Ing. de Inform?tica
Miembro 1333897 de la ISOC
mailto:jian at t2v.com
http://emn.derecho.uma.es/personal/nacho/
Mi clave p?blica en http://www.t2v.com/personal/clave_publica/jian.asc
M?laga  Espa?a (Spain)





From petrilli at amber.org  Mon Jan 25 16:09:10 1999
From: petrilli at amber.org (Christopher G. Petrilli)
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 10:09:10 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] HTML messages
In-Reply-To: <36AC3DF5.70B96B86@euronetics.se>; from Tomas Fasth on Mon, Jan 25, 1999 at 10:48:37AM +0100
References: <19990120081011.A8287@NrgUp.Com> <13995.30837.912896.6128@anthem.cnri.reston.va.us> <36AB9604.9629168C@euronetics.se> <13995.61687.990970.86418@anthem.cnri.reston.va.us> <36AC3DF5.70B96B86@euronetics.se>
Message-ID: <19990125100910.58593@amber.org>

On Mon, Jan 25, 1999 at 10:48:37AM +0100, Tomas Fasth wrote:
> 
> "MIME enhanced messaging is a requirement in many places these days"
> Many places ==> Where the alphabet consists of non-ascii characters.
> 

Actually i see a huge number of messages from my friends in Germany (who
write to me in a combination of German and English) that are encoded as
ISO Latin 1, without any escapping... at least that I've noticed, and
that includes QP.  

> Which is a whole different issue. Beseides, Mailman message delivery
> mechanism is fairly MIME transparent. The problem arises when you want
> to localize the administrative web and mail interfaces. That can easily
> turn into a can of worms.

Agreed, and at some point the presentation side should adapt on the fly,
I think... I'd also like to see the ISO Latin 1 character set adapted on
the fly to the HTML/SGML &blah; encodings :-) (If you can't see that,
you're mailer is confused! :-)

Chris
-- 
| Christopher Petrilli
| petrilli at amber.org



From bac at ivc.com  Mon Jan 25 17:08:37 1999
From: bac at ivc.com (Brad Crittenden)
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 11:08:37 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] attachments in general
In-Reply-To: <001701be3e79$272a4880$0100a8c0@shadowcat>
Message-ID: <000201be487c$f7a31fc0$5e181bd8@festus.ivc.com>

the discussion of HTML as an attachment has launched an interesting
discussion.  most people who run public lists have come out strongly
against attachments and i see their point.  in that context attachments
may not be appropriate and are definitely an annoyance.

i am using mailing lists for internal project discussions.  sending
attachments (word docs, spreadsheets, images, etc) is an important part
of our communications.  the ability of the list manager to intelligently
archive messages with attachments is crucial.  currently we're archiving
both to pipermail and to a newsgroup.  the former munges attachments
while the latter handles them nicely.  if the html archiver handled
attachments then we would not use the internal newsgroup at all.

i remember reading at one time that having the html archiver handle
attachments was on the to-do list.  i just wanted to add a contrary
voice to say some of us would use such a feature for our private,
internal mailing lists.

thanks,

brad




From sanjay.parekh at arris-i.com  Mon Jan 25 19:52:13 1999
From: sanjay.parekh at arris-i.com (Sanjay Parekh)
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 13:52:13 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Change outgoing help messages
Message-ID: <4.1.19990125134951.00999100@155.229.118.20>

	Hello folks.  I'm converting over from SmartList to Mailman.  I would like
to be able to edit the outgoing "help" and "welcome" messages sent to
users.  This is because a few lists go external from my company and those
people don't have access to our internal server.  I'd rather not have the
confusion of not being able to reach the server and having to explain that
to each person.  So..  where do I go to change those?  Can I change those
on an individual list basis?

Sanjay

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
|         Sanjay Parekh          |
|   sanjay.parekh at arris-i.com    |
| Systems Engineer - Cornerstone |
|       Arris Interactive        |
|          Atlanta, GA           |
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
PGP Key ID: 0xE1FD2FBA
PGP Fingerprint: 547F 95C0 9E32 E936 D51F  6CA7 EB14 A33A E1FD 2FBA



From jonathan at NrgUp.Com  Mon Jan 25 20:06:09 1999
From: jonathan at NrgUp.Com (Jonathan Bradshaw)
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 14:06:09 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bounce formats
Message-ID: <19990125140609.A23372@NrgUp.Com>

Are you interested in adding additional bounce formats to have mailman handle
or is the future direction to some type of VERP method?

Also, in the same bounce issue, could the member listing have a way to sort by
domain? Although usernames aren't always the same many times the domain a
bounce came from can help narrow down the user. With over 1000 names on the
list this can be a long task :-(


-- 
 Jonathan Bradshaw <Jonathan at NrgUp.Com> | Novell 4.x CNE | Ham Callsign N9OXE
          "...I'm not one of those who think Bill Gates is the devil.
         I simply suspect that if Microsoft ever met up with the devil,
              it wouldn't need an interpreter."  -- Nick Petreley



From claw at under.engr.sgi.com  Tue Jan 26 03:29:56 1999
From: claw at under.engr.sgi.com (J C Lawrence)
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 18:29:56 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] HTML messages 
In-Reply-To: Message from Tomas Fasth <tomas@euronetics.se> 
   of "Mon, 25 Jan 1999 10:48:37 +0100." <36AC3DF5.70B96B86@euronetics.se> 
Message-ID: <199901260229.SAA33668@under.engr.sgi.com>

On Mon, 25 Jan 1999 10:48:37 +0100 
Tomas Fasth<tomas at euronetics.se> wrote:

> I'm sorry, I hereby redraw that statement.  Somehow I mixed things
> up in my head.  A more correct assertion would be:

> "MIME enhanced messaging is a requirement in many places these
> days" Many places ==> Where the alphabet consists of non-ascii
> characters.

Add places which do calender synchronisation via formatted email,
corporate computing standards which pay homage to MS (not an issue
here at SGI), and so forth.

> I can only agree with you. Never the less, the problem is mounting
> as the installed base of Netscape Communicator, Outlook Express
> and alikes increase and as they usually have text/html as the
> default setting.

My interest here (I haven't got to poking at mailman in these areas
yet):

  -- Rigorously correct MIME digest support (along with the ability
to nut support RFC 1503 digests and to force a bogus Reply-To on
digests to help force people to burst them before replying).

  -- MIME type stripping.  eg stripping vcards and other specific
MIME types on inbound mails and then checking the resulting message
for actual data content (MIME part with non-zero data content).  

-- 
J C Lawrence                              Internet: claw at kanga.nu
(Contractor)                             Internet: coder at kanga.nu
---------(*)                    Internet: claw at under.engr.sgi.com
...Honorary Member of Clan McFud -- Teamer's Avenging Monolith...



From claw at under.engr.sgi.com  Tue Jan 26 03:31:34 1999
From: claw at under.engr.sgi.com (J C Lawrence)
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 18:31:34 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] attachments in general 
In-Reply-To: Message from "Brad Crittenden" <bac@ivc.com> 
   of "Mon, 25 Jan 1999 11:08:37 EST." <000201be487c$f7a31fc0$5e181bd8@festus.ivc.com> 
Message-ID: <199901260231.SAA99345@under.engr.sgi.com>

On Mon, 25 Jan 1999 11:08:37 -0500 
Brad Crittenden<bac at ivc.com> wrote:

> i remember reading at one time that having the html archiver
> handle attachments was on the to-do list.  i just wanted to add a
> contrary voice to say some of us would use such a feature for our
> private, internal mailing lists.

MHonArc handles this very well.  I'd rather see the attention spent
profitably elsewhere.

-- 
J C Lawrence                              Internet: claw at kanga.nu
(Contractor)                             Internet: coder at kanga.nu
---------(*)                    Internet: claw at under.engr.sgi.com
...Honorary Member of Clan McFud -- Teamer's Avenging Monolith...



From petrilli at amber.org  Tue Jan 26 03:42:49 1999
From: petrilli at amber.org (Christopher G. Petrilli)
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 21:42:49 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] HTML messages
In-Reply-To: <199901260229.SAA33668@under.engr.sgi.com>; from J C Lawrence on Mon, Jan 25, 1999 at 06:29:56PM -0800
References: <tomas@euronetics.se> <199901260229.SAA33668@under.engr.sgi.com>
Message-ID: <19990125214249.33794@amber.org>

On Mon, Jan 25, 1999 at 06:29:56PM -0800, J C Lawrence wrote:
> 
> My interest here (I haven't got to poking at mailman in these areas
> yet):
> 
>   -- Rigorously correct MIME digest support (along with the ability
> to nut support RFC 1503 digests and to force a bogus Reply-To on
> digests to help force people to burst them before replying).

I agree here, we should pursue absolute standards adheerance wherever
possible (assuming there is a standard :-).

>   -- MIME type stripping.  eg stripping vcards and other specific
> MIME types on inbound mails and then checking the resulting message
> for actual data content (MIME part with non-zero data content).  
> 

This fits in with the idea I've been toying with, which is a generic
"incoming filter" which provides the ability to plug-in filters, such as
what you mention... additionally, the ability to automagically whack off
HTML text, etc.  Also, the ability to strip all this, and
"intellegently" flatten into a raw text message for inclusion in a
digest, or normal processing.

This seems reasonable, so long as it's "optional"... Personally, I'd
like to be able to specify in both +/- fashion what is allowed... I only
want text on my mailing lists, no HTML, no attachments, no GIFs, etc...

Heck, I suppose you could even shove the HTML body throgh a quick parser
and reduce it to an ASCII message intellegently (shouldn't need to
support more than the bare minimum of P, and the stripping of tables).

Chris
-- 
| Christopher Petrilli
| petrilli at amber.org



From jdfalk at cybernothing.org  Tue Jan 26 03:49:48 1999
From: jdfalk at cybernothing.org (J.D. Falk)
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 18:49:48 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] HTML messages
In-Reply-To: <199901260229.SAA33668@under.engr.sgi.com>; from J C Lawrence on Mon, Jan 25, 1999 at 06:29:56PM -0800
References: <tomas@euronetics.se> <199901260229.SAA33668@under.engr.sgi.com>
Message-ID: <19990125184948.59972@cybernothing.org>

On 01/25/99, J C Lawrence <claw at under.engr.sgi.com> wrote: 

> > days" Many places ==> Where the alphabet consists of non-ascii
> > characters.
> 
> Add places which do calender synchronisation via formatted email,
> corporate computing standards which pay homage to MS (not an issue
> here at SGI), and so forth.

	Those places don't seem likely to use MailMan, IMHO.

>   -- MIME type stripping.  eg stripping vcards and other specific
> MIME types on inbound mails and then checking the resulting message
> for actual data content (MIME part with non-zero data content).  

	That'd be cool...but for most peoples' purposes I'd think a
	simple "filter all MIME attachments except text/plain" option
	(per list, default set by sysadmin) would be sufficient.

 ---------========== J.D. Falk <jdfalk at cybernothing.org> =========---------
  |   "The belief that enhanced understanding will necessarily stir a    |
  |    nation to action is one of mankind's oldest illusions."           |
  |                          -Anonymous ('Hacker's Law')                 |
 ----========== http://www.cybernothing.org/jdfalk/home.html ==========----



From claw at under.engr.sgi.com  Tue Jan 26 03:58:27 1999
From: claw at under.engr.sgi.com (J C Lawrence)
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 18:58:27 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] HTML messages 
In-Reply-To: Message from "Christopher G. Petrilli" <petrilli@amber.org> 
   of "Mon, 25 Jan 1999 21:42:49 EST." <19990125214249.33794@amber.org> 
Message-ID: <199901260258.SAA10550@under.engr.sgi.com>

On Mon, 25 Jan 1999 21:42:49 -0500 
Christopher G Petrilli<petrilli at amber.org> wrote:

> On Mon, Jan 25, 1999 at 06:29:56PM -0800, J C Lawrence wrote:

>> My interest here (I haven't got to poking at mailman in these
>> areas yet):
>> 
>> -- Rigorously correct MIME digest support (along with the ability
>> to nut support RFC 1503 digests and to force a bogus Reply-To on
>> digests to help force people to burst them before replying).

> I agree here, we should pursue absolute standards adheerance
> wherever possible (assuming there is a standard :-).

Having written MIME digest support (C code) for my own list server,
it *really* isn't all that difficult.  Its just recursive -- you
need to ensure that the content separator strings don't collide,
which can get (and rarely to never does) to be a bit of a mess of
rewrites with multiple levels of multi-parts.

>> -- MIME type stripping.  eg stripping vcards and other specific
>> MIME types on inbound mails and then checking the resulting
>> message for actual data content (MIME part with non-zero data
>> content).

> This fits in with the idea I've been toying with, which is a
> generic "incoming filter" which provides the ability to plug-in
> filters, such as what you mention... 

Exactly.

-- 
J C Lawrence                              Internet: claw at kanga.nu
(Contractor)                             Internet: coder at kanga.nu
---------(*)                    Internet: claw at under.engr.sgi.com
...Honorary Member of Clan McFud -- Teamer's Avenging Monolith...



From dougel at pacinfo.com  Wed Jan 27 23:43:46 1999
From: dougel at pacinfo.com (Doug Lumpkin)
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 14:43:46 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Qmail compatibility
Message-ID: <36AF96A2.318615E1@pacinfo.com>

Is mailman compatible with qmail?  Do I need to make any adjustments?

--
Doug Lumpkin
dougel at pacinfo.com





From julian7 at kva.hu  Wed Jan 27 23:52:36 1999
From: julian7 at kva.hu (Balazs Nagy)
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 23:52:36 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Qmail compatibility
In-Reply-To: <36AF96A2.318615E1@pacinfo.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.04.9901272350020.27962-100000@krondor.kva.hu>

On Wed, 27 Jan 1999, Doug Lumpkin wrote:

> Is mailman compatible with qmail?  Do I need to make any adjustments?

Mailman is half-compatible with qmail.  It uses the standard SMTP port but
Mailman's original letters don't go out with the standard Date: and
Message-ID: headers, though.

If Barry puts my hacks in, it will be sendmail+clones and qmail compatible.

Regards: Balazs
-- 
#!/usr/bin/perl -export-a-crypto-system-sig -http://dcs.ex.ac.uk/~aba/rsa
print pack"C*",split/\D+/,`echo "16iII*o\U@{$/=$z;[(pop,pop,unpack"H*",<>
)]}\EsMsKsN0[lN*1lK[d2%Sa2/d0<X+d*lMLa^*lN%0]dsXx++lMlN/dsM0<J]dsJxp"|dc`




From bwarsaw at cnri.reston.va.us  Thu Jan 28 00:09:02 1999
From: bwarsaw at cnri.reston.va.us (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 18:09:02 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Qmail compatibility
References: <36AF96A2.318615E1@pacinfo.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.04.9901272350020.27962-100000@krondor.kva.hu>
Message-ID: <13999.40078.235099.63507@anthem.cnri.reston.va.us>

>>>>> "BN" == Balazs Nagy <julian7 at kva.hu> writes:

    BN> If Barry puts my hacks in, it will be sendmail+clones and
    BN> qmail compatible.

Which I'm really planning on doing, I promise. ;-)  I've just been
very busy with no free time.

BTW, how do y'all like qmail?  I've been experiencing a really pesky
sendmail problem that I just can't fix -- for all the time I've
thrashed on sendmail too :-(  I'm thinking of looking at swapping my
MTA.

-Barry




From markw at tabnet.com  Thu Jan 28 00:21:07 1999
From: markw at tabnet.com (mark williamson)
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 15:21:07 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] creating lists via email ?
Message-ID: <004401be4a4b$b7c20120$7c81f7cc@mark.tabnet.com>

Is there an email interface for creating/removing mailing lists?  We'd like to be able to send a message to an admin address and create/remove mailing lists, or via a web browser.  Is this possible?

Thanks,
Mark Williamson
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From jonathan at NrgUp.Com  Thu Jan 28 00:54:23 1999
From: jonathan at NrgUp.Com (Jonathan Bradshaw)
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 18:54:23 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Qmail compatibility
In-Reply-To: <13999.40078.235099.63507@anthem.cnri.reston.va.us>; from Barry A. Warsaw on Wed, Jan 27, 1999 at 06:09:02PM -0500
References: <36AF96A2.318615E1@pacinfo.com> <Pine.LNX.4.04.9901272350020.27962-100000@krondor.kva.hu> <13999.40078.235099.63507@anthem.cnri.reston.va.us>
Message-ID: <19990127185423.A15129@NrgUp.Com>

I was using mailman with qmail, now I've switched to postfix. One word of
warning, don't use the "owner-listname" alias with postfix. For some reasons
it changed the envelope and that makes mailman hold the posting for approval.

On Wed, Jan 27, 1999 at 06:09:02PM -0500, Barry A. Warsaw wrote:
> 
> >>>>> "BN" == Balazs Nagy <julian7 at kva.hu> writes:
> 
>     BN> If Barry puts my hacks in, it will be sendmail+clones and
>     BN> qmail compatible.
> 
> Which I'm really planning on doing, I promise. ;-)  I've just been
> very busy with no free time.
> 
> BTW, how do y'all like qmail?  I've been experiencing a really pesky
> sendmail problem that I just can't fix -- for all the time I've
> thrashed on sendmail too :-(  I'm thinking of looking at swapping my
> MTA.
> 
> -Barry
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users maillist  -  Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> 

-- 
 Jonathan Bradshaw <Jonathan at NrgUp.Com> | Novell 4.x CNE | Ham Callsign N9OXE
          "...I'm not one of those who think Bill Gates is the devil.
         I simply suspect that if Microsoft ever met up with the devil,
              it wouldn't need an interpreter."  -- Nick Petreley



From claw at under.engr.sgi.com  Thu Jan 28 02:32:54 1999
From: claw at under.engr.sgi.com (J C Lawrence)
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 17:32:54 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Qmail compatibility 
In-Reply-To: Message from "Barry A. Warsaw" <bwarsaw@cnri.reston.va.us> 
   of "Wed, 27 Jan 1999 18:09:02 EST." <13999.40078.235099.63507@anthem.cnri.reston.va.us> 
Message-ID: <199901280132.RAA57537@under.engr.sgi.com>

On Wed, 27 Jan 1999 18:09:02 -0500 (EST) 
Barry A Warsaw<bwarsaw at cnri.reston.va.us> wrote:

> BTW, how do y'all like qmail?  I've been experiencing a really
> pesky sendmail problem that I just can't fix -- for all the time
> I've thrashed on sendmail too :-( I'm thinking of looking at
> swapping my MTA.

I have few opinions on QMail other than negative reactions to its
author.  I like and actively use Exim (http://www.exim.org/) which I
find close to ideal for a general MTA.  Postfix is where I intend to
head, especially for larger mail systems, but its not quite up to
where I need to be yet.

Look into Exim -- Good Stuff.

-- 
J C Lawrence                              Internet: claw at kanga.nu
(Contractor)                             Internet: coder at kanga.nu
---------(*)                    Internet: claw at under.engr.sgi.com
...Honorary Member of Clan McFud -- Teamer's Avenging Monolith...



From barasch at usc.edu  Thu Jan 28 10:51:49 1999
From: barasch at usc.edu (J. Michael Barasch)
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 01:51:49 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] cannot get mailman working
Message-ID: <000101be4aa3$d3113ec0$a9f87d80@jdot.usc.edu>

I am looking to create a mailing list for a local organization that I am in.
I downloaded the latest version of mailman and version 1.5.1 of python.  I
installed python and now all the files that come with mailman are recognized
as python files.  However, whenever I try to click on a mailman file, python
opens but then almost immediately has a fatal error.  Would someone please
help me figure out how to get past this point?  Thank you all.

J. Michael Barasch
University of Southern California
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From vic at vgg.sci.uma.es  Thu Jan 28 11:03:46 1999
From: vic at vgg.sci.uma.es (Victoriano Giralt)
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 11:03:46 +0100 (MET)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] cannot get mailman working
In-Reply-To: <000101be4aa3$d3113ec0$a9f87d80@jdot.usc.edu>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.04.9901281103011.22618-100000@vgg.sci.uma.es>

On Thu, 28 Jan 1999, J. Michael Barasch wrote:

> I am looking to create a mailing list for a local organization that I am in.
> I downloaded the latest version of mailman and version 1.5.1 of python.  I
> installed python and now all the files that come with mailman are recognized
> as python files.  However, whenever I try to click on a mailman file, python
> opens but then almost immediately has a fatal error.  Would someone please
> help me figure out how to get past this point?  Thank you all.
> 
> J. Michael Barasch
> University of Southern California
> 
click??? operating system? intended use?
--
Victoriano Giralt
Systems Programmer
Central Computing Facility
University of M?laga
SPAIN




From tomas at euronetics.se  Thu Jan 28 11:41:57 1999
From: tomas at euronetics.se (Tomas Fasth)
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 11:41:57 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Qmail compatibility
References: <199901280132.RAA57537@under.engr.sgi.com>
Message-ID: <36B03EF5.D4DE4605@euronetics.se>

J C Lawrence wrote:

> Look into Exim -- Good Stuff.

I concur. After years of sendmail hack Exim is a dream to operate.

If sendmail equals perl, can one say that exim equals python? ;-)

Tomas



From petrilli at amber.org  Thu Jan 28 16:11:14 1999
From: petrilli at amber.org (Christopher G. Petrilli)
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 10:11:14 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Qmail compatibility
In-Reply-To: <36B03EF5.D4DE4605@euronetics.se>; from Tomas Fasth on Thu, Jan 28, 1999 at 11:41:57AM +0100
References: <199901280132.RAA57537@under.engr.sgi.com> <36B03EF5.D4DE4605@euronetics.se>
Message-ID: <19990128101114.36211@amber.org>

On Thu, Jan 28, 1999 at 11:41:57AM +0100, Tomas Fasth wrote:
> J C Lawrence wrote:
> 
> > Look into Exim -- Good Stuff.
> 
> I concur. After years of sendmail hack Exim is a dream to operate.

I've heard much the same from a few other people I know who run it at
large installations... then again, anything has got to be better than
Sendmail.

> If sendmail equals perl, can one say that exim equals python? ;-)

Having hacked on the source code to Postfix some, I can honestly say
that he's written the single most readable piece of C code in
existance... after that gawky dutchman of course! :-)  It's a model of
usable variable names in most places... maazing C code that you can
read.

Chris
-- 
| Christopher Petrilli
| petrilli at amber.org



From sanjay.parekh at arris-i.com  Thu Jan 28 16:38:34 1999
From: sanjay.parekh at arris-i.com (Sanjay Parekh)
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 10:38:34 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Header on digests..
Message-ID: <4.1.19990128103647.009c0b00@155.229.118.20>

	I've now hacked up all the templates to remove any reference to web sties
(I server external mailing lists via an internal (not on the Internet)
server).  But I'm still getting this bit of header:

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the web, visit

	in digests.  I hacked up masthead.txt and thought that would fix it.
Anyone know where this piece of text is hiding so I can erradicate it?

Sanjay

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
|         Sanjay Parekh          |
|   sanjay.parekh at arris-i.com    |
| Systems Engineer - Cornerstone |
|       Arris Interactive        |
|          Atlanta, GA           |
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
PGP Key ID: 0xE1FD2FBA
PGP Fingerprint: 547F 95C0 9E32 E936 D51F  6CA7 EB14 A33A E1FD 2FBA



From bac at ivc.com  Thu Jan 28 16:45:19 1999
From: bac at ivc.com (Brad Crittenden)
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 10:45:19 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] exim
Message-ID: <000301be4ad5$351bb3d0$1464a8c0@sabine.ivc.com>

hello:

i've followed the threads on qmail and exim but i'm a bit confused.  it
seems that mailman does not yet support qmail but may soon.  does it
actually work with exim?

we're using sendmail and need to either upgrade to 8.9 or change MTA's.

thanks,
bac




From Harald.Meland at usit.uio.no  Thu Jan 28 16:57:37 1999
From: Harald.Meland at usit.uio.no (Harald Meland)
Date: 28 Jan 1999 16:57:37 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Header on digests..
In-Reply-To: Sanjay Parekh's message of "Thu, 28 Jan 1999 10:38:34 -0500"
References: <4.1.19990128103647.009c0b00@155.229.118.20>
Message-ID: <d6dn233s83y.fsf@octarine.uio.no>

[Sanjay Parekh]

> 	I've now hacked up all the templates to remove any reference to web sties
> (I server external mailing lists via an internal (not on the Internet)
> server).  But I'm still getting this bit of header:
> 
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the web, visit
> 
> 	in digests.  I hacked up masthead.txt and thought that would fix it.
> Anyone know where this piece of text is hiding so I can erradicate it?

  $ find . -type f | xargs grep 'To subscribe or unsubscribe via the web, visit'
  ./Mailman/Digester.py:To subscribe or unsubscribe via the web, visit
  ./Mailman/Digester.pyc:To subscribe or unsubscribe via the web, visit

... so changing Mailman/Digester.py would be a good bet, I guess :)

-- 
Harald



From Harald.Meland at usit.uio.no  Thu Jan 28 17:51:57 1999
From: Harald.Meland at usit.uio.no (Harald Meland)
Date: 28 Jan 1999 17:51:57 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] exim
In-Reply-To: Brad Crittenden's message of "Thu, 28 Jan 1999 10:45:19 -0500"
References: <000301be4ad5$351bb3d0$1464a8c0@sabine.ivc.com>
Message-ID: <d6d7lu7s5le.fsf@octarine.uio.no>

[Brad Crittenden]

> i've followed the threads on qmail and exim but i'm a bit confused.
> it seems that mailman does not yet support qmail but may soon.

If I interpreted Balazs correctly, the only "problem" with Qmail was
that Mailman-generated mail (i.e. subscription confirmations, password
reminders etc., but _not_ normal sent-to-a-list mail) doesn't have
Date: or Message-ID: headers.

I believe most sendmail equivalents insert these headers when they're
missing, but apparently Qmail does not.  Thus, if there is a some
sendmail equivalent between some user and Mailman running on Qmail,
that user will get mail with these headers.

> does it actually work with exim?

Yes.  This is the Mailman-relevant parts of my Exim configuration:

  # Transport
  mailman_list_pipe:
    driver = pipe
    allow_commands = /local/Mailman/mail/wrapper
    user = mailman
    return_fail_output
  
  # Director
  mailman_lists:
    driver = aliasfile
    search_type = lsearch
    file = /local/Mailman/data/MTA_aliases
    pipe_transport = mailman_list_pipe

(Whee, I just _love_ not having to clutter with sendmail.cf anymore :)

> we're using sendmail and need to either upgrade to 8.9 or change
> MTA's.

Exim is designed to be a sendmail drop-in replacement -- very nearly
all the sendmail command-line options work in the same way when given
to Exim.

Another *big* plus (in my eyes, anyway) with Exim is that the author
is extremely helpful, and on a daily basis shares his wisdom with the
rest of the <exim-users at exim.org> mailing list (which I'm sad to say
isn't a Mailman list ;).

[ I had a look at qmail some months ago, and as soon as I realized
  that you need to define a bunch of different qmail users on any box
  where you might want to pipe something into /usr/lib/sendmail (due
  to it's compartmentalized model of execution), I realized it wasn't
  really my piece of cake.  Postfix looks good, but isn't mature
  enough yet, IMHO. ]
-- 
Harald



From Szesze at thu.pest.matav.hu  Thu Jan 28 21:57:04 1999
From: Szesze at thu.pest.matav.hu (Zsolt Szilagyi)
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 21:57:04 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] publicly-advertised or not
Message-ID: <36B0CF20.CF481538@thu.pest.matav.hu>

Hello!

I have a little problem.
My lists don't appear at /mailman/listinfo , but at /mailman/admin they
are ok on the web interface.
/mailman/listinfo says: 'There currently are no publicly-advertised
mailman mailing lists on... '
/mailman/admin says: 'Below is the collection of publicly-advertised
mailman mailing lists on...' and there
are my lists' names correctly there.
What should I do to make my lists visible at /mailman/listinfo ?

Regs, Szesze

Sorry for language mistakes.





From mcg at priconet.de  Thu Jan 28 09:57:12 1999
From: mcg at priconet.de (Marcus C. Gottwald)
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 09:57:12 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] creating lists via email ?
In-Reply-To: <004401be4a4b$b7c20120$7c81f7cc@mark.tabnet.com>; Wed 1999-Jan-27 15:21:07 -0800
References: <004401be4a4b$b7c20120$7c81f7cc@mark.tabnet.com>
Message-ID: <19990128095712.A8157@norm.cheers.de>

G'day!

Mark Williamson wrote (Wed 1999-Jan-27 15:21:07 -0800):

> Is there an email interface for creating/removing mailing
> lists?  We'd like to be able to send a message to an
> admin address and create/remove mailing lists, or via a
> web browser.  Is this possible?

It is definitely possible to have a web-based interface for
creating mailing-lists. I have two of them running.
However, there is currently no routine for checking wether
the input makes sense. This could be added to the (Perl-)
script which is doing the job. 

By controlling the access to the script, you can determine
who is allowed to use it and create lists.


See ya, Marcus

-- 
    Marcus C. Gottwald  ?  <mcg at priconet.de>  ?  +49 177 3557799  ?  PGP



From jdfalk at cybernothing.org  Fri Jan 29 02:03:31 1999
From: jdfalk at cybernothing.org (J.D. Falk)
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 17:03:31 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] creating lists via email ?
In-Reply-To: <19990128095712.A8157@norm.cheers.de>; from Marcus C. Gottwald on Thu, Jan 28, 1999 at 09:57:12AM +0100
References: <004401be4a4b$b7c20120$7c81f7cc@mark.tabnet.com> <19990128095712.A8157@norm.cheers.de>
Message-ID: <19990128170331.37744@cybernothing.org>

On 01/28/99, "Marcus C. Gottwald" <mcg at priconet.de> wrote: 

> It is definitely possible to have a web-based interface for
> creating mailing-lists. I have two of them running.
> However, there is currently no routine for checking wether
> the input makes sense. This could be added to the (Perl-)
> script which is doing the job. 
> 
> By controlling the access to the script, you can determine
> who is allowed to use it and create lists.

	Is your script in a state where you'd be willing to share it
	with others?

 ---------========== J.D. Falk <jdfalk at cybernothing.org> =========---------
  |             "Beyond your tunnel vision reality fades                 |
  |              Like shadows into the night."       -Pink Floyd         |
 ----========== http://www.cybernothing.org/jdfalk/home.html ==========----



From markw at tabnet.com  Fri Jan 29 03:04:52 1999
From: markw at tabnet.com (Mark Williamson)
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 18:04:52 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] running newlist script from within a script
Message-ID: <36B11744.826E634D@tabnet.com>

I need to execute another script like from the command line, passing
arguments just as i would do it at the command line.  what i am trying
to do is build an interface to the newlist script via email, so i
attempted:

    def ProcessNewListCmd(self, args, cmd, mail):
        if len(args) < 4:
    self.AddError("missing arguments")
    return
        cmd = "%s %s %s >> /etc/aliases" % (mm_cfg.PYTHON,
                         "/home/mailman/bin/newlist",
    args)
        cmdproc = os.popen(cmd, 'r')
 status = cmdproc.close()
        if status:
            self.LogMsg('newlist',
                        'Non-zero exit status: %d\nCommand: %s' %
((status >> 8), cmd))
        self.AddToResponse('Succeeded.')


(yes, i'm going to add error checking later)

but it's not working at this point.  can someone help?  The python docs
are lacking details in many areas, and the exec, popen, etc are ones
that i need docs on :)

Regards,
Mark Williamson




From claw at under.engr.sgi.com  Fri Jan 29 04:08:41 1999
From: claw at under.engr.sgi.com (J C Lawrence)
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 19:08:41 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] exim 
In-Reply-To: Message from "Brad Crittenden" <bac@ivc.com> 
   of "Thu, 28 Jan 1999 10:45:19 EST." <000301be4ad5$351bb3d0$1464a8c0@sabine.ivc.com> 
Message-ID: <199901290308.TAA67170@under.engr.sgi.com>

On Thu, 28 Jan 1999 10:45:19 -0500 
Brad Crittenden<bac at ivc.com> wrote:

> hello: i've followed the threads on qmail and exim but i'm a bit
> confused.  it seems that mailman does not yet support qmail but
> may soon.  does it actually work with exim?

I find that mailman works fine with Exim, and requires no patches or 
other tweaks to do so.

-- 
J C Lawrence                              Internet: claw at kanga.nu
(Contractor)                             Internet: coder at kanga.nu
---------(*)                    Internet: claw at under.engr.sgi.com
...Honorary Member of Clan McFud -- Teamer's Avenging Monolith...



From mark.imbriaco at pobox.com  Fri Jan 29 07:21:30 1999
From: mark.imbriaco at pobox.com (Mark A. Imbriaco)
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 01:21:30 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Pipermail bug.
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.990129011736.1263A-100000@dhcppc0>

I just installed Mailman 1.0b8 on a Cobalt RAQ MIPS based Linux machine
and it's working great for the most part.  Kudos for an excellent piece of
software.

I think that I've stumbled across a bug in Pipermail, but I'm not sure
exactly what caused it or how to duplicate it.  The header from one
message got attached to the body of a second.  I'm thinking that it has
something to do with the goofy MIME-encapsulated HTML that the first
message was sent in.

Any ideas?

-Mark





From julian7 at kva.hu  Fri Jan 29 09:47:05 1999
From: julian7 at kva.hu (Balazs Nagy)
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 09:47:05 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] exim 
In-Reply-To: <199901290308.TAA67170@under.engr.sgi.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.04.9901290941120.1535-100000@krondor.kva.hu>

On Thu, 28 Jan 1999, J C Lawrence wrote:

> On Thu, 28 Jan 1999 10:45:19 -0500 
> Brad Crittenden<bac at ivc.com> wrote:
> 
> > hello: i've followed the threads on qmail and exim but i'm a bit
> > confused.  it seems that mailman does not yet support qmail but
> > may soon.  does it actually work with exim?
> 
> I find that mailman works fine with Exim, and requires no patches or 
> other tweaks to do so.

I'm glad to hear Exim works flawlessly.  By the way Qmail doesn't support
this envelope forging due of the author's decision about security and
strict implementing of RFC specifications.

I downloaded Exim just now and I'll check it out ASAP.  If the half is true
what you told about Exim, it have to be a good piece of software ;-)

Regards: Balazs (Vassenaar rules)
-- 
#!/usr/bin/perl -export-a-crypto-system-sig -http://dcs.ex.ac.uk/~aba/rsa
print pack"C*",split/\D+/,`echo "16iII*o\U@{$/=$z;[(pop,pop,unpack"H*",<>
)]}\EsMsKsN0[lN*1lK[d2%Sa2/d0<X+d*lMLa^*lN%0]dsXx++lMlN/dsM0<J]dsJxp"|dc`




From mcg at priconet.de  Fri Jan 29 22:03:49 1999
From: mcg at priconet.de (Marcus C. Gottwald)
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 22:03:49 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] creating lists via email ?
In-Reply-To: <19990128170331.37744@cybernothing.org>; Thu 1999-Jan-28 17:03:31 -0800
References: <004401be4a4b$b7c20120$7c81f7cc@mark.tabnet.com> <19990128095712.A8157@norm.cheers.de> <19990128170331.37744@cybernothing.org>
Message-ID: <19990129220349.C13060@norm.cheers.de>

G'day!

J.D. wrote (Thu 1999-Jan-28 17:03:31 -0800):

> > It is definitely possible to have a web-based interface for
> > creating mailing-lists. I have two of them running.
> > However, there is currently no routine for checking wether
> > the input makes sense. This could be added to the (Perl-)
> > script which is doing the job. 
> > 
> > By controlling the access to the script, you can determine
> > who is allowed to use it and create lists.
> 
> 	Is your script in a state where you'd be willing to share it
> 	with others?

Anyone who'd like to may certainly receive a copy of the
script and html-file. 

However, it is not very well developed, not intended for
use by un-instructed users - and in German, but I could
translate it. So I suggest not to publish it in the current
state.


See ya, Marcus

-- 
    Marcus C. Gottwald  ?  <mcg at priconet.de>  ?  +49 177 3557799  ?  PGP

             norm is now up for more than 91 days and 4:12h



From dmaznan at hotmail.com  Sat Jan 30 03:44:47 1999
From: dmaznan at hotmail.com (Maznan Deraman)
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 18:44:47 PST
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archive work fine, but mail not delivered to members
Message-ID: <19990130024447.21225.qmail@hotmail.com>

I've installed mailman 1.08b on my Linux to create a mailing list.
I supposed, everything was configured correctly because no error message 
appear in my /var/adm/syslog and /home/mailman/logs/error.

I've created a newlist called test and subscribe to it using 2 email 
accounts for testing. When i post to the list (test at list.hostname.org), 
it stored the post in archive dir and i can browse it via homepage. But, 
why it doesn't mail a copy to the list member?(I choose non-digest 
membership for both account).

Is there any other thing that I not configure yet?..

Thanx in advance.

--maznan

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com



From g.c.prasad at usa.net  Sun Jan 31 00:22:10 1999
From: g.c.prasad at usa.net (g.c.prasad at usa.net)
Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 00:22:10
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Web-based e-mail using mailman?
Message-ID: <19990131002210.25497.qmail@www06.netaddress.usa.net>

Hi,

I've just subscribed to this list, and since there's no FAQ, I'm posting this question to the list:

Does mailman provide a way for a website to offer Hotmail-style web-based e-mail to its users? That would be a very useful feature, i my opinion. I have been looking for such a (free) tool, but there doesn't seem to be one available.

Thanks and regards,

Ganesh C. Prasad



____________________________________________________________________
Get free e-mail and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1



From gstein at lyra.org  Sun Jan 31 01:43:29 1999
From: gstein at lyra.org (Greg Stein)
Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 16:43:29 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Web-based e-mail using mailman?
References: <19990131002210.25497.qmail@www06.netaddress.usa.net>
Message-ID: <36B3A730.A5A2CDE@lyra.org>

g.c.prasad at usa.net wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I've just subscribed to this list, and since there's no FAQ, I'm posting this question to the list:
> 
> Does mailman provide a way for a website to offer Hotmail-style web-based e-mail to its users? That would be a very useful feature, i my opinion. I have been looking for such a (free) tool, but there doesn't seem to be one available.

Mailman is a mailing list manager -- it only handles mailing lists.

There are free packages out there that provide hotmail-style mail.
http://freshmeat.net is a good resource for that, although it is
currently down (it is hosted by RedHat which is moving offices right
now). I recall seeing at least two or three packages to offer such
functionality.

Cheers,
-g

--
Greg Stein, http://www.lyra.org/



From gstein at lyra.org  Sun Jan 31 05:38:06 1999
From: gstein at lyra.org (Greg Stein)
Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 20:38:06 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] publicly-advertised or not
References: <36B0CF20.CF481538@thu.pest.matav.hu>
Message-ID: <36B3DE2E.7A24776B@lyra.org>

Zsolt Szilagyi wrote:
> 
> Hello!
> 
> I have a little problem.
> My lists don't appear at /mailman/listinfo , but at /mailman/admin they
> are ok on the web interface.
> /mailman/listinfo says: 'There currently are no publicly-advertised
> mailman mailing lists on... '
> /mailman/admin says: 'Below is the collection of publicly-advertised
> mailman mailing lists on...' and there
> are my lists' names correctly there.
> What should I do to make my lists visible at /mailman/listinfo ?

I believe that your "hidden" lists have to do with the virtual hosting
option in Mailman. Depending on the setting, Mailman will filter the
listinfo display to just the lists on a particular virtual host.

In other words, if the URL for a list is http://www.foo.com/mailman/,
but the person hits the site via http://www.bar.com/mailman/, then the
virtual hosting option will filter out that list.

Cheers,
-g

--
Greg Stein, http://www.lyra.org/



From gstein at lyra.org  Sun Jan 31 05:46:50 1999
From: gstein at lyra.org (Greg Stein)
Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 20:46:50 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Running Mailman, webs server and mail transport on separate servers.
References: <36A54FBF.3D63B111@manhattanproject.com>
		<Pine.GSO.3.96.990120114001.6266e-100000@glyph.cnri.reston.va.us>
		<13990.26532.355187.402165@antares.plain.co.nz>
		<36A6A2DC.3504774E@lyra.org> <13997.19660.506464.406538@antares.plain.co.nz>
Message-ID: <36B3E03A.7E9FDC75@lyra.org>

[was out of town last week; sorry for the delay]

John Morton wrote:
> Greg Stein writes:
>  > List is: pycom-dev
>  > Host name: pythonpros.com
>  > URL: http://mailman.pythonpros.com/mailman/
>  >
>  > People send to pycom-dev at pythonpros.com. That mail is handled on the
>  > mail exchanger box. Visiting www.pythonpros.com brings you to a
>  > Linux-based web server. Mailman runs on mailman.pythonpros.com which is
>  > on the third Linux box.
> 
> So under these circumstances, you don't need to have a wrapper script
> that ssh's to the mailman machine and runs the CGI? That's what I'd
> like to do, but I'm have problems setting up the PATH_INFO variable
> via ssh on the mailman machine.

Here are my machines:

ns1.lyra.org : primary mail server, primary DNS
cartman.lyra.org : Mailman machine, with a mail server and web server
www.pythonpros.com : general web server

mailman.pythonpros.com is a CNAME for cartman.

On ns1, I have pycom-dev at pythonpros.com forwarded to
pycom-dev at cartman.lyra.org.  cartman's /etc/aliases forwards that to
Mailman where it gets processed. cartman performs all outbound
deliveries of the mail lists under the "pythonpros.com" domain name.
cartman also handles mailman web requests under the
mailman.pythonpros.com virtual host.

www.pythonpros.com goes to the general web server.

No SSH or funny CGI or anything is involved.

>  > The NT box is a colocated box which runs some other domains' web sites.
>  > Their mail and mailing lists are handled by the appropriate linux box.
> 
> So mailing list mail is forwarded the mailman box, and the MTA on that
> machine calls the mail wrapper, etc?

The NT box merely hosts web pages. The domains' MX records point to ns1.
If the domain is hosting a mailing list, then the inbound mail is
forwarded (by ns1) to cartman for Mailman processing.

The NT box can link people to mailman.example.com on cartman, or the NT
machine can actually contain the subscription form and simply post it to
mailman.example.com.

>  > Yah, seems like overkill on the number of machines, but then again:
>  > they're mostly 486's with small memory; and I don't want to run a beta
>  > Mailman on the mail exchanger (which is also primary DNS) since I've
>  > seen earlier Mailman versions bumble the box.
> 
> That seems sensible. We've got web servers set up like that, but I'm
> running mailman-1.0b8 on the mail server machine.

I took it off my primary mail machine. I found that 1.0b6 could throw my
machine into a mail loop and chew up the CPU. At one point, the mail
machine was refusing all incoming mail and was not even serving DNS
properly. Since it is a critical piece of the network, I removed Mailman
to a dedicated box.

This actually works out well. Inbound mail (relatively light) goes thru
ns1. The heavy mail distribution and queueing and Mailman CGI processing
occurs on a dedicated machine.

Cheers,
-g

--
Greg Stein, http://www.lyra.org/



From markw at tabnet.com  Sun Jan 31 22:25:25 1999
From: markw at tabnet.com (Mark Williamson)
Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 13:25:25 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Web-based e-mail using mailman?
In-Reply-To: <199901311702.MAA10803@python.org>
Message-ID: <199901312132.NAA27688@tabnet.com>

>Does mailman provide a way for a website to offer Hotmail-style web-based
e-mail to its users? That would be a very useful feature, i my opinion. I
have been looking for such a (free) tool, but there doesn't seem to be one
available.

actually, it's pretty funny, but there's a product called Mailman that does
just that.  It looks just like the yahoo mail or excite mail, and i found
it by searching for mailman on excite.  It's fully customizable and is
written in perl.






From liu.dongsheng at etang.net  Sun Jan 31 03:39:32 1999
From: liu.dongsheng at etang.net (Tonny Liu)
Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 10:39:32 +0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] No response when I tried to enter into the web admin pages
References: <200101310040.QAA06383@utopia.west.sun.com>
Message-ID: <004f01be4cc2$f003cd60$3c05a8c0@tonny>

 Sometimes,When I tried to enter into  the admin pages of maillist, there is no response, and in the mailman server, a process sleeping: /usr/bin/python -S /home/mailman/scripts/driver admin
if you tried 10 times, 10 such processes will be created and sleeping.
Can anybody tell me why? thanks in advance.

Tony.