From enseikou at gmail.com  Sat May 12 16:45:26 2018
From: enseikou at gmail.com (Rubeno =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Fern=E1ndez?=)
Date: Sat, 12 May 2018 22:45:26 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-i18n] Esperanto translation
Message-ID: <1825143.g0eo5gyrC6@fractal>

Saluton al ?iuj!

My name is Rub?n Fern?ndez and I'm setting up a Mailman server at https://
poshto.esperanto.cat/listejo/listinfo. My version is 2.1.20.
I'd like to translate Mailman into Esperanto. 
I've contacted the Language Champions Marcio Malacarne <malacarne NO AT 
HARVEST cce DOT ufes DOT br> and Sergey Tyrin <interdist NO AT HARVEST 
myrealbox DOT com>, but they haven't replied at all. In fact, Marcio's address 
is unavailable.
How should I start?

Rub?n

From mark at msapiro.net  Sun May 13 11:26:54 2018
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 13 May 2018 08:26:54 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-i18n] Esperanto translation
In-Reply-To: <1825143.g0eo5gyrC6@fractal>
References: <1825143.g0eo5gyrC6@fractal>
Message-ID: <32b5c698-125e-2b15-c601-1601ff930b13@msapiro.net>

On 5/12/18 1:45 PM, Rubeno Fern?ndez wrote:
> Saluton al ?iuj!
> 
> My name is Rub?n Fern?ndez and I'm setting up a Mailman server at https://
> poshto.esperanto.cat/listejo/listinfo. My version is 2.1.20.
> I'd like to translate Mailman into Esperanto. 
> I've contacted the Language Champions Marcio Malacarne <malacarne NO AT 
> HARVEST cce DOT ufes DOT br> and Sergey Tyrin <interdist NO AT HARVEST 
> myrealbox DOT com>, but they haven't replied at all. In fact, Marcio's address 
> is unavailable.
> How should I start?



Hi Rub?n


Welcome. If you haven't already, please see some of the pages linked
from <https://wiki.list.org/DEV/Internationalization> including
<https://wiki.list.org/DEV/i18nhowto>.

I suggest you start by installing bzr and obtaining the Mailman 2.1
branch via 'bzr branch lp:mailman/2.1'.

You will need to create the messages/eo/LC_MESSAGES/ directory and the
templates/eo/ directory. messages/eo/LC_MESSAGES/ will contain your
mailman.po file with your translated message strings and templates/eo/
will contain your translations of the files in templates/en/.

To create your mailman.po, you start with the messages/mailman.pot
template file and either add your translated message strings manually or
use some tool if you have access to one.

If you have specific questions, please ask here.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From enseikou at gmail.com  Sun May 13 17:50:30 2018
From: enseikou at gmail.com (Rubeno =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Fern=E1ndez?=)
Date: Sun, 13 May 2018 23:50:30 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-i18n] Esperanto translation
In-Reply-To: <32b5c698-125e-2b15-c601-1601ff930b13@msapiro.net>
References: <1825143.g0eo5gyrC6@fractal>
 <32b5c698-125e-2b15-c601-1601ff930b13@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <16240832.Ino5U8FvRD@fractal>

Thanks for the info, Mark!

My priority is translating the HTML and email templates that my list users 
will interact with. Is it possible to install them in Mailman even while 
incomplete? As far as I understand, I need to make a directory /etc/mailman/eo 
and put my files there, and then add a line like this to the end of /usr/lib/
mailman/Mailman/Defaults.py:

	add_language('eo', _('Esperanto'), 'utf-8')

Am I on the right track?

Rub?n

> Hi Rub?n
> 
> 
> Welcome. If you haven't already, please see some of the pages linked
> from <https://wiki.list.org/DEV/Internationalization> including
> <https://wiki.list.org/DEV/i18nhowto>.
> 
> I suggest you start by installing bzr and obtaining the Mailman 2.1
> branch via 'bzr branch lp:mailman/2.1'.
> 
> You will need to create the messages/eo/LC_MESSAGES/ directory and the
> templates/eo/ directory. messages/eo/LC_MESSAGES/ will contain your
> mailman.po file with your translated message strings and templates/eo/
> will contain your translations of the files in templates/en/.
> 
> To create your mailman.po, you start with the messages/mailman.pot
> template file and either add your translated message strings manually or
> use some tool if you have access to one.
> 
> If you have specific questions, please ask here.


From mark at msapiro.net  Sun May 13 18:15:21 2018
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 13 May 2018 15:15:21 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-i18n] Esperanto translation
In-Reply-To: <16240832.Ino5U8FvRD@fractal>
References: <1825143.g0eo5gyrC6@fractal>
 <32b5c698-125e-2b15-c601-1601ff930b13@msapiro.net>
 <16240832.Ino5U8FvRD@fractal>
Message-ID: <f6d3ff6a-4a99-9243-bff0-792755af5372@msapiro.net>

On 5/13/18 2:50 PM, Rubeno Fern?ndez wrote:
> Thanks for the info, Mark!
> 
> My priority is translating the HTML and email templates that my list users 
> will interact with. Is it possible to install them in Mailman even while 
> incomplete? As far as I understand, I need to make a directory /etc/mailman/eo 
> and put my files there, and then add a line like this to the end of /usr/lib/
> mailman/Mailman/Defaults.py:
> 
> 	add_language('eo', _('Esperanto'), 'utf-8')
> 
> Am I on the right track?


Yes. The add language is OK. Eventually, it will become

add_language('eo', _('Esperanto'), 'utf-8', 'ltr')

but the 'ltr' direction is the default so for testing, you don't need it.

It seems you are looking at doing this in an installed Mailman package,
and this too is OK, but I'm not sure how the package you're using stores
its files and you may need more.

I.e., if the other language templates are in /etc/mailman/eo, there may
be symlinks to these language directories from somewhere in
/usr/lib/mailman or vice-versa and if so, you'll need one for eo as well.

I.e., you need to mirror what the other languages do.

Also, you should have a mailman.po file in the appropriate place. You
don't really need it if you haven't translated any strings, but you
could start with a copy of
<https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~mailman-coders/mailman/2.1/view/head:/messages/mailman.pot>
which might also be included somewhere in your package.

You also need to compile mailman.po to mailman.mo with msgfmt.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From enseikou at gmail.com  Mon May 14 11:24:24 2018
From: enseikou at gmail.com (Rubeno =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Fern=E1ndez?=)
Date: Mon, 14 May 2018 17:24:24 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-i18n] Esperanto translation
In-Reply-To: <f6d3ff6a-4a99-9243-bff0-792755af5372@msapiro.net>
References: <1825143.g0eo5gyrC6@fractal> <16240832.Ino5U8FvRD@fractal>
 <f6d3ff6a-4a99-9243-bff0-792755af5372@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <12618321.XkaG1KRlXi@fractal>

Yes, I'll be installing my translations on Ubuntu Xenial, where /usr/lib/
mailman/templates is a symlink to /etc/mailman.

One more question: On mm_cfg.py I've set my server's language to Catalan 
(https://posto.esperanto.cat/listejo/listinfo), but I'd like to make its 
homepage and the email-list list bilingual in Catalan/Esperanto, is that 
possible? I can't seem to locate the right HTML template though, where is it 
pulled from?

And a last question: Is there any way to prevent Mailman from base64-encoding 
all mail? Could I change the charset in the "add_language" lines for both 
Catalan and Esperanto from "utf-8" to "iso-8859-3"? That charset has got all 
letters needed for both languages.

Rub?n

El dilluns, 14 de maig de 2018, a les 0:15:21 CEST, Mark Sapiro va escriure:
> 
> It seems you are looking at doing this in an installed Mailman package,
> and this too is OK, but I'm not sure how the package you're using stores
> its files and you may need more.
> 
> I.e., if the other language templates are in /etc/mailman/eo, there may
> be symlinks to these language directories from somewhere in
> /usr/lib/mailman or vice-versa and if so, you'll need one for eo as well.
> 
> I.e., you need to mirror what the other languages do.
> 
> Also, you should have a mailman.po file in the appropriate place. You
> don't really need it if you haven't translated any strings, but you
> could start with a copy of
> <https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~mailman-coders/mailman/2.1/view/head:/message
> s/mailman.pot> which might also be included somewhere in your package.
> 
> You also need to compile mailman.po to mailman.mo with msgfmt.


From mark at msapiro.net  Mon May 14 16:03:46 2018
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 14 May 2018 13:03:46 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-i18n] Esperanto translation
In-Reply-To: <12618321.XkaG1KRlXi@fractal>
References: <1825143.g0eo5gyrC6@fractal> <16240832.Ino5U8FvRD@fractal>
 <f6d3ff6a-4a99-9243-bff0-792755af5372@msapiro.net>
 <12618321.XkaG1KRlXi@fractal>
Message-ID: <4833400a-a2c0-c29c-a6f5-5ec8a17f3dbf@msapiro.net>

On 5/14/18 8:24 AM, Rubeno Fern?ndez wrote:
> Yes, I'll be installing my translations on Ubuntu Xenial, where /usr/lib/
> mailman/templates is a symlink to /etc/mailman.


OK


> One more question: On mm_cfg.py I've set my server's language to Catalan 
> (https://posto.esperanto.cat/listejo/listinfo), but I'd like to make its 
> homepage and the email-list list bilingual in Catalan/Esperanto, is that 
> possible? I can't seem to locate the right HTML template though, where is it 
> pulled from?


In the list admin UI, in the upper left is Language options. You check
the languages that are available for the list and select one preferred
language which is the default.

Users can view the listinfo page in any of the available languages and
select any of the available as their preferred language.


> And a last question: Is there any way to prevent Mailman from base64-encoding 
> all mail? Could I change the charset in the "add_language" lines for both 
> Catalan and Esperanto from "utf-8" to "iso-8859-3"? That charset has got all 
> letters needed for both languages.


The Python email package which Mailman uses base64 encodes all utf-8
message parts. There are ways the change that. Basically,
email.charset.Charset('utf-8').body_encoding is Charset.BASE64. I don't
recall offhand the details of how to do that, but if you can't figure it
out, I can try to help.

I would discourage using iso-8859-3, but you could do that for
Esperanto. If you were to do it for Catalan, in addition to changing the
add_language line, you need to recode all the templates and the message
catalog.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan