From mark at mailmanlists.net  Wed Nov  9 06:23:53 2016
From: mark at mailmanlists.net (Mark Dale)
Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2016 22:23:53 +1100
Subject: [Mailman-i18n] Hungarian language template files for Mailman 2.1.23
Message-ID: <3c1deef7-749a-5ae5-870d-651219f8fe63@mailmanlists.net>

Hello,

Re: Hungarian language template files for Mailman 2.1.23

We have a customer using the Hungarian language option for their mailing 
lists and they bought it to our attention that the list information web 
pages were displaying question marks in place of letters with diacritics.

I've edited the HTML files in "/etc/mailman/templates/hu" by replacing 
those characters with html character code. The web pages now display 
correctly.

In the TXT files, I've left the letters with diacritics in place, as 
they seem to be mostly messages that get sent as text to users. They 
look like they are all displaying correctly in recipients' emails.

And finally, the "mailman.po" file that is in the release code files 
indicates these files (for Hungarian language templates) were last 
updated in 2004.

What is the best way to proceed from here - to get the edits included in 
the next release of Mailman (2.1.24?)?

Regards,
Mark Dale

CC'ed to:

Mailman Language Champions - Hungarian
Vizi Szilard vizisz at freemail.hu>
Gabor Funk funk.gabor at hunetkft.hu>
Hungarian Language Team ll at li.org


-- 

========================================
  MailmanLists - hosted discussion lists
  Canberra, Australia
  Tel: +61 .2 61003121
  http://www.mailmanlists.net
=======================================

From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Nov  9 11:18:20 2016
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2016 08:18:20 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-i18n] Hungarian language template files for Mailman
 2.1.23
In-Reply-To: <3c1deef7-749a-5ae5-870d-651219f8fe63@mailmanlists.net>
References: <3c1deef7-749a-5ae5-870d-651219f8fe63@mailmanlists.net>
Message-ID: <309cb815-64fd-ef44-94a5-7d7fdc136d72@msapiro.net>

On 11/09/2016 03:23 AM, Mark Dale wrote:
> 
> What is the best way to proceed from here - to get the edits included in
> the next release of Mailman (2.1.24?)?


See the section "How do I send in my translation?" at
<https://wiki.list.org/DEV/i18nhowto#line-100>

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From szilard.vizi at gmail.com  Wed Nov  9 11:38:52 2016
From: szilard.vizi at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Vizi_Szil=E1rd?=)
Date: Wed, 09 Nov 2016 17:38:52 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-i18n] Hungarian language template files for Mailman
 2.1.23
In-Reply-To: <3c1deef7-749a-5ae5-870d-651219f8fe63@mailmanlists.net>
References: <3c1deef7-749a-5ae5-870d-651219f8fe63@mailmanlists.net>
Message-ID: <81D80270-225E-48B7-A268-3F62381CDD0E@freemail.hu>

Mark,

Thanks for the notification. We will check the string issue and the missing translations.

Regards, Szilard

On 2016. november 9. 12:23:53 CET, Mark Dale <mark at mailmanlists.net> wrote:
>Hello,
>
>Re: Hungarian language template files for Mailman 2.1.23
>
>We have a customer using the Hungarian language option for their
>mailing 
>lists and they bought it to our attention that the list information web
>
>pages were displaying question marks in place of letters with
>diacritics.
>
>I've edited the HTML files in "/etc/mailman/templates/hu" by replacing 
>those characters with html character code. The web pages now display 
>correctly.
>
>In the TXT files, I've left the letters with diacritics in place, as 
>they seem to be mostly messages that get sent as text to users. They 
>look like they are all displaying correctly in recipients' emails.
>
>And finally, the "mailman.po" file that is in the release code files 
>indicates these files (for Hungarian language templates) were last 
>updated in 2004.
>
>What is the best way to proceed from here - to get the edits included
>in 
>the next release of Mailman (2.1.24?)?
>
>Regards,
>Mark Dale
>
>CC'ed to:
>
>Mailman Language Champions - Hungarian
>Vizi Szilard vizisz at freemail.hu>
>Gabor Funk funk.gabor at hunetkft.hu>
>Hungarian Language Team ll at li.org
>
>
>-- 
>
>========================================
>  MailmanLists - hosted discussion lists
>  Canberra, Australia
>  Tel: +61 .2 61003121
>  http://www.mailmanlists.net
>=======================================

-- 
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
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From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Nov 11 15:03:35 2016
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2016 12:03:35 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-i18n] Hungarian language template files for Mailman
 2.1.23
In-Reply-To: <309cb815-64fd-ef44-94a5-7d7fdc136d72@msapiro.net>
References: <3c1deef7-749a-5ae5-870d-651219f8fe63@mailmanlists.net>
 <309cb815-64fd-ef44-94a5-7d7fdc136d72@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <448d9947-9a17-086f-4e4c-8f68b2770b46@msapiro.net>

On 11/09/2016 08:18 AM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> On 11/09/2016 03:23 AM, Mark Dale wrote:
>>
>> What is the best way to proceed from here - to get the edits included in
>> the next release of Mailman (2.1.24?)?
> 
> 
> See the section "How do I send in my translation?" at
> <https://wiki.list.org/DEV/i18nhowto#line-100>
> 


FYI, As far as the replacement of non-ascii with HTML entities in the
templates/hu/*.html files is concerned, I've done that. See
<http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~mailman-coders/mailman/2.1/revision/1681>.
These changes will be in the next release.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From mark at mailmanlists.net  Sat Nov 12 05:06:55 2016
From: mark at mailmanlists.net (Mark Dale)
Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2016 21:06:55 +1100
Subject: [Mailman-i18n] Hungarian language template files for Mailman
 2.1.23
In-Reply-To: <448d9947-9a17-086f-4e4c-8f68b2770b46@msapiro.net>
References: <3c1deef7-749a-5ae5-870d-651219f8fe63@mailmanlists.net>
 <309cb815-64fd-ef44-94a5-7d7fdc136d72@msapiro.net>
 <448d9947-9a17-086f-4e4c-8f68b2770b46@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <e40d72e1-f5f4-ed66-bba3-f9519f0c00c5@mailmanlists.net>

Hi Mark,

Thanks for updating the HTML files for the next release. I had received 
a response from one of the original Language Champions (Vizi Szilard) 
saying that they were going to look into it.

Meantime I had also updated the HTML files, and loaded them into one of 
our Mailman installations at the request of a customer. The customer (a 
Hungarian speaker) has kindly followed up with an editing of the TXT 
files, which we have also loaded on our server. I note that it is an 
additional improvement with this, and the remaining "question marks" 
have been removed.

These text files contain letters with diacritics (non-ascii) and are not 
a translation as such, just a clean up of character issues in what is 
already there.

To avoid there being too many cooks in the kitchen on this, should I 
simply forward these text files to yourself and Vizi Szilard for 
inclusion in the next release?

Regards,
Mark


========================================
  MailmanLists - hosted discussion lists
  Canberra, Australia
  Tel: +61 .2 61003121
  http://www.mailmanlists.net
=======================================

On 12/11/16 07:03, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> On 11/09/2016 08:18 AM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>> On 11/09/2016 03:23 AM, Mark Dale wrote:
>>>
>>> What is the best way to proceed from here - to get the edits included in
>>> the next release of Mailman (2.1.24?)?
>>
>>
>> See the section "How do I send in my translation?" at
>> <https://wiki.list.org/DEV/i18nhowto#line-100>
>>
>
>
> FYI, As far as the replacement of non-ascii with HTML entities in the
> templates/hu/*.html files is concerned, I've done that. See
> <http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~mailman-coders/mailman/2.1/revision/1681>.
> These changes will be in the next release.
>

From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Nov 12 11:25:56 2016
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2016 08:25:56 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-i18n] Hungarian language template files for Mailman
 2.1.23
In-Reply-To: <e40d72e1-f5f4-ed66-bba3-f9519f0c00c5@mailmanlists.net>
References: <3c1deef7-749a-5ae5-870d-651219f8fe63@mailmanlists.net>
 <309cb815-64fd-ef44-94a5-7d7fdc136d72@msapiro.net>
 <448d9947-9a17-086f-4e4c-8f68b2770b46@msapiro.net>
 <e40d72e1-f5f4-ed66-bba3-f9519f0c00c5@mailmanlists.net>
Message-ID: <28ab1e9a-ab27-a035-1fbd-9304b77c0222@msapiro.net>

On 11/12/2016 02:06 AM, Mark Dale wrote:
> 
> These text files contain letters with diacritics (non-ascii) and are not
> a translation as such, just a clean up of character issues in what is
> already there.
> 
> To avoid there being too many cooks in the kitchen on this, should I
> simply forward these text files to yourself and Vizi Szilard for
> inclusion in the next release?


Please send me your entire templates/hu/ directory as you now have it.
I'm not sure exactly what has been done, but after I see the changes, I
can comment further.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From mark at mailmanlists.net  Sun Nov 13 00:09:09 2016
From: mark at mailmanlists.net (Mark Dale)
Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2016 16:09:09 +1100
Subject: [Mailman-i18n] Hungarian language template files for Mailman
 2.1.23
In-Reply-To: <28ab1e9a-ab27-a035-1fbd-9304b77c0222@msapiro.net>
References: <3c1deef7-749a-5ae5-870d-651219f8fe63@mailmanlists.net>
 <309cb815-64fd-ef44-94a5-7d7fdc136d72@msapiro.net>
 <448d9947-9a17-086f-4e4c-8f68b2770b46@msapiro.net>
 <e40d72e1-f5f4-ed66-bba3-f9519f0c00c5@mailmanlists.net>
 <28ab1e9a-ab27-a035-1fbd-9304b77c0222@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <f7802307-105c-fead-32d4-85e29058daf0@mailmanlists.net>

Hi Mark,

You can disregard the text file edits from the customer. The Diff was 
just a change in one of the files replacing the first line with 
hard-code. I've reverted it back to the original text file (on our 
installation) that was in the 2.1.23 release. The remaining odd 
characters that I mentioned were from an "umlaut" that I'd missed in the 
HTML files.

So, it looks like the HTML file cleanup that you've done is all that's 
needed for the next release.

I've attached my templates/hu/ directory anyway.


Thanks,
Mark

On 13/11/16 03:25, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> On 11/12/2016 02:06 AM, Mark Dale wrote:
>>
>> These text files contain letters with diacritics (non-ascii) and are not
>> a translation as such, just a clean up of character issues in what is
>> already there.
>>
>> To avoid there being too many cooks in the kitchen on this, should I
>> simply forward these text files to yourself and Vizi Szilard for
>> inclusion in the next release?
>
>
> Please send me your entire templates/hu/ directory as you now have it.
> I'm not sure exactly what has been done, but after I see the changes, I
> can comment further.
>
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From mark at msapiro.net  Sun Nov 13 03:35:48 2016
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2016 00:35:48 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-i18n] Hungarian language template files for Mailman
 2.1.23
In-Reply-To: <f7802307-105c-fead-32d4-85e29058daf0@mailmanlists.net>
References: <3c1deef7-749a-5ae5-870d-651219f8fe63@mailmanlists.net>
 <309cb815-64fd-ef44-94a5-7d7fdc136d72@msapiro.net>
 <448d9947-9a17-086f-4e4c-8f68b2770b46@msapiro.net>
 <e40d72e1-f5f4-ed66-bba3-f9519f0c00c5@mailmanlists.net>
 <28ab1e9a-ab27-a035-1fbd-9304b77c0222@msapiro.net>
 <f7802307-105c-fead-32d4-85e29058daf0@mailmanlists.net>
Message-ID: <c7319424-84e8-1e97-5a30-1090a5152663@msapiro.net>

On 11/12/2016 09:09 PM, Mark Dale wrote:
> Hi Mark,
> 
> You can disregard the text file edits from the customer. The Diff was
> just a change in one of the files replacing the first line with
> hard-code. I've reverted it back to the original text file (on our
> installation) that was in the 2.1.23 release. The remaining odd
> characters that I mentioned were from an "umlaut" that I'd missed in the
> HTML files.
> 
> So, it looks like the HTML file cleanup that you've done is all that's
> needed for the next release.
> 
> I've attached my templates/hu/ directory anyway.


OK. I did notice some issues with the files you sent. Several but not
all of the .txt files were recoded as utf-8. This is wrong. Mailman's
characterset for Hungarian is iso-8859-2. That means all the templates
and the mailman.po message catalog must be iso-8859-2 encoded.

As far as the .html templates are concerned, it is best if the non-ascii
characters are represented as HTML entities and this avoids the issue of
'?' replacements because the web server overrides the encoding defined
on the page, but the .txt templates are generally used in email which
will have a defined encoding of iso-8859-2 so utf-8 encoded templates
will be garbled and HTML entities won't work.

I also noticed an issue with the .html templates. There are two
iso-8859-2 characters in these templates that do not have 'named' HTML
entities. These are

Hex F5, o double acute (?)
Hex FB, u double acute (?)

You represented these as &otilde; (?) and &ucirc; (?) whereas I think
they should be represented as the numeric entities &#337; and  &#369;
(see <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_acute_accent#Unicode>).

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From mark at mailmanlists.net  Sun Nov 13 16:23:37 2016
From: mark at mailmanlists.net (Mark Dale)
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2016 08:23:37 +1100
Subject: [Mailman-i18n] Hungarian language template files for Mailman
 2.1.23
In-Reply-To: <c7319424-84e8-1e97-5a30-1090a5152663@msapiro.net>
References: <3c1deef7-749a-5ae5-870d-651219f8fe63@mailmanlists.net>
 <309cb815-64fd-ef44-94a5-7d7fdc136d72@msapiro.net>
 <448d9947-9a17-086f-4e4c-8f68b2770b46@msapiro.net>
 <e40d72e1-f5f4-ed66-bba3-f9519f0c00c5@mailmanlists.net>
 <28ab1e9a-ab27-a035-1fbd-9304b77c0222@msapiro.net>
 <f7802307-105c-fead-32d4-85e29058daf0@mailmanlists.net>
 <c7319424-84e8-1e97-5a30-1090a5152663@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <864768f6-5022-9a07-6120-fad632f1f051@mailmanlists.net>


Hi Mark,

Thanks for the heads-up on these.
There's always something more to learn :-)

Regards,
Mark

On 13/11/16 19:35, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> the .txt templates are generally used in email which
> will have a defined encoding of iso-8859-2 so utf-8 encoded templates
> will be garbled and HTML entities won't work.

***

> I also noticed an issue with the .html templates. There are two
> iso-8859-2 characters in these templates that do not have 'named' HTML
> entities. These are
>
> Hex F5, o double acute (?)
> Hex FB, u double acute (?)
>
> You represented these as &otilde; (?) and &ucirc; (?) whereas I think
> they should be represented as the numeric entities &#337; and  &#369;
> (see <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_acute_accent#Unicode>).
>