From illtud.daniel at llgc.org.uk  Thu Aug  6 16:22:31 2009
From: illtud.daniel at llgc.org.uk (Illtud Daniel)
Date: Thu, 06 Aug 2009 15:22:31 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-i18n] Welsh (Cymraeg - cy_GB)
Message-ID: <4A7AE727.9050407@llgc.org.uk>

Hi,

I'd like to sign up as Champion for a Welsh translation. No
mention of this in the archives, so I don't think I'm treading
on any toes.

-- 
Illtud Daniel                                 illtud.daniel at llgc.org.uk
Prif Swyddog Technegol                          Chief Technical Officer
Llyfrgell Genedlaethol Cymru                  National Library of Wales

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Aug 21 02:50:03 2009
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 17:50:03 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-i18n] Question regarding language selection.
Message-ID: <PC1922009082017500307508cbec671@msapiro>

Suppose for example that a list's preferred language is English, but a
particular member's preferred language is Spanish.

If the user goes to http://www.example.com/mailman/options/LIST, the
options login page is displayed in English, and if the user either
logs in or requests unsubscription from that page, she will get an
options page or an unsubscription confirmation in English.

She can first select Spanish as the language for the login page and
redisplay it in Spanish and then it works as expected.

The intent of this is to allow someone who may have accidently (or by
email) subscribed in the list's preferred language to select a
different language for unsubscribing or for the options page.

This may be the desirable behavior, but an alternative is to use the
user's current preferred language for this. Which is better depends on
whether the user's current preferred language is intentional or
accidental which is difficult to know, but if the user's language
choice is accidental, it is likely to be the same as the list's
language anyway, so it seems that setting the language for the options
page or unsubscribe confirmation to the user's preferred language in
the case where the language of the options login page is the list's
language might be a good compromise.

What do people think about this?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From barry at python.org  Fri Aug 21 03:12:53 2009
From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 21:12:53 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-i18n] Question regarding language selection.
In-Reply-To: <PC1922009082017500307508cbec671@msapiro>
References: <PC1922009082017500307508cbec671@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20F53D72-FE02-4C88-97BB-FE45F5D9FC83@python.org>

On Aug 20, 2009, at 8:50 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> This may be the desirable behavior, but an alternative is to use the
> user's current preferred language for this. Which is better depends on
> whether the user's current preferred language is intentional or
> accidental which is difficult to know, but if the user's language
> choice is accidental, it is likely to be the same as the list's
> language anyway, so it seems that setting the language for the options
> page or unsubscribe confirmation to the user's preferred language in
> the case where the language of the options login page is the list's
> language might be a good compromise.

What about comparing it against the browser's advertised preferred  
languages and falling back to that (or maybe preferring that when no  
language was selected)?

-Barry

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From barry at python.org  Mon Aug 31 16:24:46 2009
From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 10:24:46 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-i18n] Russian translation update
In-Reply-To: <20090723182945.GA29776@mawhrin.net>
References: <20090710204711.0e9256bb@bga>
	<AD43BB13-DEFB-43CD-AB9D-6FDD777DB2CF@python.org>
	<20090721150239.e6e62de7.bga@altlinux.org>
	<9F7EDDDD-64FC-42DC-81AE-230949B26819@python.org>
	<20090723182945.GA29776@mawhrin.net>
Message-ID: <3A2670E4-A656-451C-91FD-04901F08593A@python.org>

On Jul 23, 2009, at 2:29 PM, Mikhail Sobolev wrote:

> Please do.  I'm certain I sent a message to mailman-i18n quite some  
> time
> ago.

Thanks Misha.  We're going to move all translations to Launchpad, so  
most of this workflow will change, hopefully for the better.  More to  
come, when I get a few things set up.

-Barry

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From barry at python.org  Mon Aug 31 22:26:31 2009
From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 16:26:31 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-i18n] Move to Launchpad?
In-Reply-To: <1d9d9b240907210320r711de786g8698145a9da3e9f7@mail.gmail.com>
References: <39D7F1CD-1260-4DEC-9FCA-4DE2974AB8C8@list.org>
	<1d9d9b240907210320r711de786g8698145a9da3e9f7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <735AC79D-29DD-4725-BB32-4D9C678069FE@python.org>

I am CC'ing Danilo Segan (Launchpad translations team lead) on this  
message.  Danilo, please correct any misconceptions I have about  
Launchpad translations, or provide any other comments that you think  
would help us in this transition.

On Jul 21, 2009, at 6:20 AM, David Planella wrote:

> Hi Barry and all,

Hi David,

> If the final decision is to use Launchpad for translations as well,
> I'd suggest to publish all branches for translations (2.1, 2.2 and
> 3.0), clearly indicating the status of each version (e.g. development
> focus, future development, maintenance-only) in the description of the
> translation template. The (relatively) new feature [1] [2] of
> automatically uploading new translation templates upon commit on a bzr
> branch would certainly make this easier. Message sharing between
> branches is also an interesting feature not yet widely announced but
> already in use. It effectively allows translations to be automatically
> shared across branches, which for translators means that they only
> have to translate in one branch and those translations with identical
> msgids will be instantly translated in the other branches.

I've now done this.  I've registered the 2.1, 2.2, and 3.0 branches as  
the translation branches for Mailman series of the same names.   
However, I am thinking about splitting out the catalogs and .po files  
into a separate branch, at least for MM3 because I'd like to  
distribute them as a separate plugin.  If/when I get around to that  
I'll fiddle with the translation branches.

I'm not actually sure how useful it is to have a translation branch  
for 2.1.

Note that I did /not/ upload all the .po files.  I think the legal  
clearance for the 2.1 translations is sketchy in places.  I want to  
clear this up, definitely for 3.0 if not also for 2.2.  I think to do  
this correctly will require starting from scratch and using Launchpad  
permissions to control who can approve and upload translations for  
2.2.  I know it's a shame to lose all of our 2.1 translations, but I'm  
confident we can leverage the community to help us out.

Launchpad supports sharing translations, which is awesome, but I think  
will probably not help us much since 2.2 still uses %-strings but 3.0  
uses $-strings.  However, if we're not able to use the 2.1  
translations, perhaps Mark can consider switching to $-strings for  
Mailman 2.2 also.

> Then again, I feel I must warn that I might be a bit biased, since I
> also work for Canonical as the Ubuntu Translations Coordinator :-).

Danilo has set up a translation group for Mailman translators.  We'll  
need to set up individual language teams inside Launchpad specifically  
for the Mailman project.  Danilo has told me that while there's a GNU  
Translations group in Launchpad, it's not very active.  Their names  
will be of the form mailman-l10n-xx where xx is the language code. As  
David implies, there's already a mailman-l10n-ca for Catalan which he  
owns, so perhaps we can use that as a guinea pig.  We need to add that  
team to the Mailman Translation group, but we have to be careful about  
its membership and permissions.

As I understand it, the proper legal framework for translations should  
be:

* Every person who joins a mailman translation team should officially  
disclaim copyright with the Free Software Foundation.  I will help  
coordinate that effort.

* We need the individual translation teams to restrict membership to  
ensure that its members have signed the disclaimer form.  The team  
owners will be the gatekeepers so it's up to me to make sure the team  
owners understand their responsibility before adding the team to the  
Mailman translation group.

* Once we get disclaimer forms, we can accept that contributor's  
translations.

>> If there are concerns, questions, or complaints about Launchpad's
>> translation services, feel free to bring that up here or in the  
>> Launchpad
>> public forums.  I'll answer as best I can or find an expert on that  
>> part of
>> the system.  From my perspective, it would be nice to re-integrate  
>> this part
>> of the development/release cycle.
>>
>
> Or on IRC for those who prefer it: #launchpad on Freenode. I'm usually
> there (dpm) but most importantly the Launchpad Translations developers
> are also there, and we're always glad to help with any questions or
> requests.

David, Danilo, let me know if the above makes sense.  If you have  
anything to add either technically, legally, or logistically, please  
let us know.

I plan on updating http://wiki.list.org/display/DEV/ 
Internationalization with all the new workflow once it's settled.

Thanks everyone,
-Barry

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From barry at python.org  Mon Aug 31 22:34:01 2009
From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 16:34:01 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-i18n] Move to Launchpad?
In-Reply-To: <735AC79D-29DD-4725-BB32-4D9C678069FE@python.org>
References: <39D7F1CD-1260-4DEC-9FCA-4DE2974AB8C8@list.org>
	<1d9d9b240907210320r711de786g8698145a9da3e9f7@mail.gmail.com>
	<735AC79D-29DD-4725-BB32-4D9C678069FE@python.org>
Message-ID: <FFE73CEE-D172-4B7F-A93A-D59CD2D4FBEC@python.org>

Oh, and I really want to give thanks to some people in particular.   
First to Cristobal for his generous efforts in bringing up the Pootle  
service.  Even though it didn't work out, it was a great experiment  
and I appreciate everything you did for us.  Clytie too for pushing so  
hard on use an open source solution for this part of Mailman's  
development (and I'd like to think, the helpful nudges on Launchpad to  
DTRT in open sourcing).

I'd also like to thank Danilo for patiently explaining Launchpad's  
translation service to me.  All errors are mine.

And once again, my thanks to /everyone/ who translates Mailman.  I'm a  
hopeless monolinguist, but I absolutely love that this humble project  
is so well translated and has blazed some trails in internationalizing  
Python projects.  I remember when Tokio sent the first patches to  
display Mailman in Japanese.  I was at a Python conference sitting  
next to Ka-Ping Yee, hacking away on my laptop.  I got the interface  
up and although it looked pretty, I couldn't understand a word of it.   
Ka-Ping was shoulder surfing and was pleasantly surprised to see, and  
confirm, the Japanese web page.  How cool was that?!

So everyone, thanks, and I hope Launchpad will make your lives much  
easier.  As always, please provide me with feedback and I'll make sure  
it gets to Danilo and his team.

-Barry

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