From mark at msapiro.net  Sun Mar  9 00:09:13 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 08 Mar 2008 15:09:13 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-i18n] Updated message catalogs needed for Mailman 2.1.10
Message-ID: <47D31C99.10103@msapiro.net>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

If you are a language champion or otherwise responsible for a Mailman
translation, please get the updated 2.1.10 message catalog for your
language to me as soon as possible. Mailman 2.1.10 has been in beta for
3 months now, and I have received very few updated translations.

I am planning to release what I hope will be the final beta release of
2.1.10 in a few days. This would be a release candidate rather than a
beta if I had more updated translations.

Thank you for your understanding.

- --
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (MingW32)

iD8DBQFH0xyZVVuXXpU7hpMRAo1aAKDYiS/wpexcQJqNPi+d0GLK6o2x0gCfTo/Z
24bhI96yktpfx97nDC3XH48=
=PH4r
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

From listeyon at metu.edu.tr  Mon Mar 10 08:52:36 2008
From: listeyon at metu.edu.tr (liste yoneticisi)
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 09:52:36 +0200 (WET)
Subject: [Mailman-i18n] [Mailman-Announce] Updated message catalogs
 needed for Mailman 2.1.10
In-Reply-To: <47D31C99.10103@msapiro.net>
References: <47D31C99.10103@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.A41.4.58.0803100949150.782356@beluga.user.services.metu.edu.tr>


Bu ?al??mada T?rk?e Mailman i?in giri?imde bulunan var m??
Bu listede T?rkiye'den kimler var? Bu konuda i?birli?i yapabilir miyiz?

(An explanation to all: I just asked if there is anyone who
responsible for Turkish translation of Mailman, attended to these lists
from Turkiye.)

----------------
Liste Yoneticisi
http://e-list.cc.metu.edu.tr
http://e-liste.bidb.odtu.edu.tr

On Sat, 8 Mar 2008, Mark Sapiro wrote:

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

If you are a language champion or otherwise responsible for a Mailman
translation, please get the updated 2.1.10 message catalog for your
language to me as soon as possible. Mailman 2.1.10 has been in beta for
3 months now, and I have received very few updated translations.

I am planning to release what I hope will be the final beta release of
2.1.10 in a few days. This would be a release candidate rather than a
beta if I had more updated translations.

Thank you for your understanding.

- --
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (MingW32)

iD8DBQFH0xyZVVuXXpU7hpMRAo1aAKDYiS/wpexcQJqNPi+d0GLK6o2x0gCfTo/Z
24bhI96yktpfx97nDC3XH48=
=PH4r
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
_______________________________________________
Mailman-announce mailing list
Mailman-announce at python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-announce
Member address: listeyon at metu.edu.tr
Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-announce/listeyon%40metu.edu.tr

From barry at list.org  Mon Mar 10 16:00:06 2008
From: barry at list.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 11:00:06 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-i18n] Updated message catalogs needed for Mailman
	2.1.10
In-Reply-To: <47D31C99.10103@msapiro.net>
References: <47D31C99.10103@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <435803E2-A7E6-4DA7-ADBC-76887D471356@list.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Mar 8, 2008, at 6:09 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> If you are a language champion or otherwise responsible for a Mailman
> translation, please get the updated 2.1.10 message catalog for your
> language to me as soon as possible. Mailman 2.1.10 has been in beta  
> for
> 3 months now, and I have received very few updated translations.
>
> I am planning to release what I hope will be the final beta release of
> 2.1.10 in a few days. This would be a release candidate rather than a
> beta if I had more updated translations.

I think it may be time to once again consider modernizing our i18n  
workflow, especially for 2.2 and 3.0.

Let me state up front that I'm HUGELY grateful for all the excellent  
work that the i18n volunteers have contributed over the years.   
Through your work, Mailman was one of the first localized Python  
projects and we invented a lot of the basic Python machinery for  
internationalizing applications.

Of course, things have come a long way since then, and I think it may  
be time for us to join a wider translation community.  AFAIK, the two  
leading contenders are running our own Pootle service, or using  
Launchpad translations.  Is there any other viable alternative?

I'd like to get some feedback from the current i18n volunteers to see  
what you think.  If you believe that the status quo is best, feel free  
to say so.  I think it's not, but I'm open to opinions.  What I'm  
really looking for is a system and process that makes both the  
translators lives better, and doesn't put blockages in our workflow  
for releasing new versions of Mailman.

Thanks,
- -Barry

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.8 (Darwin)

iEYEARECAAYFAkfVTPYACgkQ2YZpQepbvXFi2QCfUXfgKcktYHrtEODoxd07Xsft
ZH8AnRvkLxP92KZL24bFja+C96/22FYO
=lF7M
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

From brad at shub-internet.org  Tue Mar 11 02:41:24 2008
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 20:41:24 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-i18n] [Mailman-Users] [Mailman-Announce] Updated
 message catalogs needed for Mailman 2.1.10
In-Reply-To: <Pine.A41.4.58.0803100949150.782356@beluga.user.services.metu.edu.tr>
References: <47D31C99.10103@msapiro.net>
	<Pine.A41.4.58.0803100949150.782356@beluga.user.services.metu.edu.tr>
Message-ID: <p06240800c3fb93a0f72f@[192.168.1.199]>

On 3/10/08, liste yoneticisi wrote:

>  (An explanation to all: I just asked if there is anyone who
>  responsible for Turkish translation of Mailman, attended to these lists
>  from Turkiye.)

This is a question that is better asked on the mailman-i18n mailing 
list.  That's where all the Internationalization folks should be 
hanging out.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From clytie at riverland.net.au  Wed Mar 12 10:07:53 2008
From: clytie at riverland.net.au (Clytie Siddall)
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2008 19:37:53 +1030
Subject: [Mailman-i18n] [Mailman-Users] [Mailman-Announce] Updated
	message catalogs needed for Mailman 2.1.10
In-Reply-To: <p06240800c3fb93a0f72f@[192.168.1.199]>
References: <47D31C99.10103@msapiro.net>
	<Pine.A41.4.58.0803100949150.782356@beluga.user.services.metu.edu.tr>
	<p06240800c3fb93a0f72f@[192.168.1.199]>
Message-ID: <90B310F8-E15B-46ED-AE64-DA2A67637B70@riverland.net.au>


On 11/03/2008, at 12:11 PM, Brad Knowles wrote:

> On 3/10/08, liste yoneticisi wrote:
>
>> (An explanation to all: I just asked if there is anyone who
>> responsible for Turkish translation of Mailman, attended to these  
>> lists
>> from Turkiye.)
>
> This is a question that is better asked on the mailman-i18n mailing
> list.  That's where all the Internationalization folks should be
> hanging out.

I'd definitely vote for Pootle. It's free software, and gives you  
complete control of access, plus syncing with source control  
(including bzr, AFAIK). Its developers are extremely responsive to  
admin or user needs.

from Clytie

Vietnamese Free Software Translation Team
http://vnoss.net/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=projects:l10n



From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Mar 14 03:26:54 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2008 19:26:54 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-i18n] Mailman 2.1.10b4 Released
Message-ID: <47D9E26E.4040708@msapiro.net>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

I am happy to announce the next beta release of Mailman 2.1.10.

This is a security and bug fix release and it is highly recommended
that all sites upgrade to this version. Mailman 2.1.10 also adds support
for three new language translations, Galician, Hebrew and Slovak and a
few new features.

Mailman is free software for managing email mailing lists and e-
newsletters. Mailman is used for all the python.org and
SourceForge.net mailing lists, as well as at hundreds of other sites.

For more information, including download links, please see:

http://www.list.org
http://mailman.sf.net
http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman

Special thanks are due to Barry Warsaw and Tokio Kikuchi for much coding
and support, Moritz Naumann for help with security issues and Jim Tittsler
for a significant patch.

Here's a list of the major changes.

Security

- - The 2.1.9 fixes for CVE-2006-3636 were not complete. In particular,
some potential cross-site scripting attacks were not detected in
editing templates and updating the list's info attribute via the web
admin interface. This has been assigned CVE-2008-0564 and has been

fixed. Thanks again to Moritz Naumann for assistance with this.


New Features

- - Changed cmd_who.py to list all members if authorization is with the
list's admin or moderator password and to accept the password if the
roster is public. Also changed the web roster to show hidden members
when authorization is by site or list's admin or moderator password
(1587651).

- - Added the ability to put a list name in accept_these_nonmembers
to accept posts from members of that list (1220144).

- - Added a new 'sibling list' feature to exclude members of another list
from receiving a post from this list if the other list is in the To: or
Cc: of the post or to include members of the other list if that list is
not in the To: or Cc: of the post (Patch ID 1347962).

- - Added the admin_member_chunksize attribute to the admin General Options
interface (Bug 1072002, Partial RFE 782436).

Internationalization

- - Added the Hebrew translation from Dov Zamir. This includes addition of
a direction ('ltr', 'rtl') to the LC_DESCRIPTIONS table. The
add_language() function defaults direction to 'ltr' to not break
existing mm_cfg.py files.

- - Added the Slovak translation from Martin Matuska.

- - Added the Galician translation from Frco. Javier Rial Rodr?guez.


Changes since 2.1.10b3 include the Galician translation and updates to
the French translation (Vietnamese and Danish translations were updated
in 2.1.10b3). Other changes since 2.1.10b3 include:

- - In 2.1.9, queue runner processing was made
~  more robust by making backups of queue entries when they were dequeued
~  so they could be recovered in the event of a system failure.  This
~  opened the possibility that if a message itself caused a runner to
~  crash, a loop could result that would endlessly reprocess the message.
~  This has now been fixed by adding a dequeue count to the entry and
~  moving the entry aside and logging the fact after the third dequeue of
~  the same entry.

- - Fixed the command line scripts add_members, sync_members and
~  clone_member to properly handle banned addresses (1904737).

- - Fixed bin/newlist to add the list's preferred language to the list's
~  available_languages if it is other than the server's default language
~  (1906368).

- - Changed the first URL in the RFC 2369 List-Unsubscribe: header to go
~  to the options login page instead of the listinfo page.

- - Changed the options login page to not issue the "No address given"
~  error when coming from the List-Unsubscribe and other direct links.
~  Also changed to remember the user's language selection when
~  redisplaying the page following an error.


/Mark Sapiro

- --
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (MingW32)

iD8DBQFH2eJuVVuXXpU7hpMRAihOAJ4zIREWCWCQt7YDDHp3frDHjzwkCQCfdh7J
W3UKWsTTfStBE4z64oqa36c=
=ZedT
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

From eternalyouth at gmail.com  Wed Mar 26 21:56:38 2008
From: eternalyouth at gmail.com (Bibek Paudel)
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2008 02:26:38 +0530
Subject: [Mailman-i18n] Mailman in Nepali
Message-ID: <dc0b5670803261356k5d10c45bn69c98a351e510605@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,
I would like to inform that I would like to translate Mailman into
Nepali language. In fact, I have started out on it.
Mailman hasn't been translated to this language before.

Please suggest me further on who do I contact to add the language and
get SVN access.

Regards,
Bibek Paudel.

-- 
======================================
Code is Poetry.

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Mar 27 00:47:54 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2008 16:47:54 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-i18n] Mailman in Nepali
In-Reply-To: <dc0b5670803261356k5d10c45bn69c98a351e510605@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC176020080326164754017174ba3141@msapiro>

Bibek Paudel wrote:

>I would like to inform that I would like to translate Mailman into
>Nepali language. In fact, I have started out on it.
>Mailman hasn't been translated to this language before.
>
>Please suggest me further on who do I contact to add the language and
>get SVN access.


Welcome and thank you for your efforts.

Please see <http://wiki.list.org/display/DEV/Internationalization> for
some current information.

The SVN repository on sourceforge is no longer used and is out of date.
The current Mailman source repository is a Bazaar branch on launchpad
at <https://code.launchpad.net/~mailman-coders/mailman/2.1>.

The current workflow we are experimenting with is for you to create
your own launchpad account and your own branch from the 2.1 branch.
Then when you are satisfied your branch is ready, you can propose it
for merge back to the 2.1 branch.

If this doesn't work for you, you can always submit your message
catalog and templates directly to me as release manager for the 2.1
branch or make them available to me anywhere on the web, and I can
commit them to the branch.

Note that this workflow is a "work in progress". See
<http://wiki.list.org/display/DEV/Managing+Translations> for some
thoughts on where we might go and feel free to add your own.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From barry at list.org  Thu Mar 27 02:54:49 2008
From: barry at list.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2008 21:54:49 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-i18n] Translation services (was Re: Updated message
	catalogs needed for Mailman 2.1.10)
In-Reply-To: <90B310F8-E15B-46ED-AE64-DA2A67637B70@riverland.net.au>
References: <47D31C99.10103@msapiro.net>
	<Pine.A41.4.58.0803100949150.782356@beluga.user.services.metu.edu.tr>
	<p06240800c3fb93a0f72f@[192.168.1.199]>
	<90B310F8-E15B-46ED-AE64-DA2A67637B70@riverland.net.au>
Message-ID: <24159195-A763-44D6-A477-5A62C42B5740@list.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Mar 12, 2008, at 5:07 AM, Clytie Siddall wrote:
>
> On 11/03/2008, at 12:11 PM, Brad Knowles wrote:
>
>> On 3/10/08, liste yoneticisi wrote:
>>
>>> (An explanation to all: I just asked if there is anyone who
>>> responsible for Turkish translation of Mailman, attended to these
>>> lists
>>> from Turkiye.)
>>
>> This is a question that is better asked on the mailman-i18n mailing
>> list.  That's where all the Internationalization folks should be
>> hanging out.
>
> I'd definitely vote for Pootle. It's free software, and gives you
> complete control of access, plus syncing with source control
> (including bzr, AFAIK). Its developers are extremely responsive to
> admin or user needs.

Hi Clytie,

So would you recommend that we run our own Pootle server or use one of  
the public Pootle servers that already exist.  The former is  
problematic since we don't really have the resources or machines to  
host such a server.  I looked at the official Pootle server  
documentation and while they list a few projects that they host, they  
don't appear to have formal published policy about how they accept new  
projects.  I would guess that they'd be likely to accept a GPL'd  
project like Mailman.

The other listed public Pootle servers seem to be focused on  
particular projects, so I'm not sure there's a different existing  
service that would host us.

We would need some mechanisms and policy for ensuring that translators  
who contribute to Mailman all have the necessary FSF copyright  
assignments.  We want to avoid getting in situations where some  
languages aren't assigned and others are.

I'd like to have some ability for cross-project pollination.  The idea  
being that it's good to have Vietnamese experts who contribute to lots  
of open source projects,  and can learn about Mailman, with an easy  
way to share translations across projects. I don't know if that's a  
typical way translators work though, or if they would find it a  
benefit to have such a system.

Sync'ing from Bazaar would be very cool!

Do any other translators have additional comments?

- -Barry

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.8 (Darwin)

iEYEARECAAYFAkfq/mkACgkQ2YZpQepbvXG+XACeMnD+bvw5CqzNfNX5+iMGzdHY
fbIAoIlt6HnbqBe9vWTDPhLcqPn0df8z
=zqRN
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

From mark at msapiro.net  Thu Mar 27 22:53:28 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2008 14:53:28 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-i18n] Mailman in Nepali
In-Reply-To: <dc0b5670803262209k44ad326fx55cb715a66c6c180@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC17602008032714532809845e94f254@msapiro>

Bibek Paudel wrote:

>On Thu, Mar 27, 2008 at 5:17 AM, Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:
>
>>  The current workflow we are experimenting with is for you to create
>>  your own launchpad account and your own branch from the 2.1 branch.
>>  Then when you are satisfied your branch is ready, you can propose it
>>  for merge back to the 2.1 branch.
>
>I have created a branch named "nepali" at launchpad.
>https://code.launchpad.net/~eternalyouth/mailman/nepali


I see that you have created the branch, but it is not yet 'published'
so I and others can't see what's in it.


>Please tell me if I am doing everything the right way. I still have no
>clue about how to add my language so that others would be able to join
>me in case they get interested.


I'm not sure what your asking so my answer may cover things you are not
asking.

Once you publish your branch on launchpad, you can give other
individuals commit privileges to it so that you and others can updat
your branch using bazaar (bzr).

To make a translation for a new language you need several things.

You need 'ne' subdirectories under templates/ and messages/.
templates/ne/ contains the translated versions of all the files in
templates/en/. messages/ne/LC_Messages/ contains mailman.po which is
the translated message catalog based on messages/mailman.pot.

In addition, you need to add

add_language('ne',  _('Nepali'),  'utf-8',  'ltr')

but with the appropriate character set (maybe not utf-8) and direction
(maybe not left to right) for Nepali, and you need to add ne to the
LANGUAGES lists in templates/Makefile.in and messages/Makefile.in so
that Mailman will be aware of your language and configure and make
will build and install the mailman.mo and templates.

I hope this answers your questions.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan