From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Jun  7 23:46:50 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 07 Jun 2008 14:46:50 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-i18n] Mailman 2.1.11rc1 has been released
Message-ID: <484B01CA.5050908@msapiro.net>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

I am happy to announce the release of the first release candidate for
Mailman 2.1.11.

Mailman 2.1.11 is a cleanup of a few problems found since the release of
Mailman 2.1.10. It fixes the issue of shunted email subscribe requests
and a few minor issues. It updates the contrib/mmdsr script for some
2.1.10 and 2.1.11 log and error messages, and it adds a new cron to cull
and optionally archive old entries in the 'bad' and 'shunt' queues. See
the release notes at
<http://sourceforge.net/project/shownotes.php?group_id=103&release_id=605074>
for details.

Mailman is free software for managing email mailing lists and
e-newsletters. Mailman is used for all the python.org and
SourceForge.net mailing lists, as well as at hundreds of other sites.

For more information, including download links, please see:

http://www.list.org
http://mailman.sf.net
http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman

Note that since the 2.1.11rc1 tarball was prepared, a few issues
involving the Dutch, German, Korean, Russian, Spanish and traditional
Chinese translations have been corrected, so if you use any of these
languages, you probably will want to wait for the next candidate or
final release.

- --
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

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From clytie at riverland.net.au  Wed Jun 11 14:55:46 2008
From: clytie at riverland.net.au (Clytie Siddall)
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2008 22:25:46 +0930
Subject: [Mailman-i18n] Mailman 2.1.11rc1 has been released
In-Reply-To: <484B01CA.5050908@msapiro.net>
References: <484B01CA.5050908@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <5E27CECE-A35A-4F00-A4B1-19AA120FFD5E@riverland.net.au>


On 08/06/2008, at 7:16 AM, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> I am happy to announce the release of the first release candidate for
> Mailman 2.1.11.
>
<snip>

Translated and posted to VNOSS.

from Clytie

Vietnamese Free Software Translation Team
http://vnoss.net/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=projects:l10n



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From dgmorales at gmail.com  Fri Jun 20 19:09:07 2008
From: dgmorales at gmail.com (Diego Francisco de Gastal Morales)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2008 14:09:07 -0300
Subject: [Mailman-i18n] Improving mailman pt_BR translation
Message-ID: <1213981747.6206.40.camel@localhost>

Hello there,

I'm Diego Morales, and I would like to contribute some improvements to
mailman's pt_BR translation. How should I proceed? Should I contact
directly Gleydson Mazioli or the Debian portuguese translation team who
are listed in the malman.po file?


I'm a brazilian native, and in my workplace folks have corrected some
poor translated phrases in mailman.po. I (and others there) would like
to review and contribute those translations to the project.

Thank you for your time and this great software,


Diego Morales.



From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Jun 20 19:32:11 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2008 10:32:11 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-i18n] Improving mailman pt_BR translation
In-Reply-To: <1213981747.6206.40.camel@localhost>
Message-ID: <PC187020080620103211031229731143@msapiro>

Diego Francisco de Gastal Morales wrote:
>
>I'm Diego Morales, and I would like to contribute some improvements to
>mailman's pt_BR translation. How should I proceed? Should I contact
>directly Gleydson Mazioli or the Debian portuguese translation team who
>are listed in the malman.po file?


Hello and thank you very much for your interest.

I think it is appropriate to contact the people listed in your
mailman.po and/or those listed at <http://wiki.list.org/x/Pw>, but if
they are not responsive, I think you should proceed anyway.

There is some time urgency here as I am in the middle of the release
cycle for Mailman 2.1.11 which we hope will be the final release on
the 2.1 branch. I was hoping to release 2.1.11 final on June 23, but I
can make this a 2.1.11rc2 release and wait a bit for your updates.

Please feel free to contact me or this list if you need any technical
help or support in preparing and submitting your changes.

The current mailman.po is in the bazaar repository on launchpad. You
can check out the branch via

bzr branch lp:mailman/stable

or you can browse the code at
<http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~mailman-coders/mailman/2.1/files> and
download individual files.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From dgmorales at gmail.com  Fri Jun 20 20:48:13 2008
From: dgmorales at gmail.com (Diego Morales)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2008 15:48:13 -0300
Subject: [Mailman-i18n] Improving mailman pt_BR translation
In-Reply-To: <PC187020080620103211031229731143@msapiro>
References: <PC187020080620103211031229731143@msapiro>
Message-ID: <485BFB6D.3020509@gmail.com>



Mark Sapiro escreveu:
> I think it is appropriate to contact the people listed in your
> mailman.po and/or those listed at <http://wiki.list.org/x/Pw>, but if
> they are not responsive, I think you should proceed anyway.
Ok, I will contact them right now.

> 
> There is some time urgency here as I am in the middle of the release
> cycle for Mailman 2.1.11 which we hope will be the final release on
> the 2.1 branch. I was hoping to release 2.1.11 final on June 23, but I
> can make this a 2.1.11rc2 release and wait a bit for your updates.
Well, I hope to do that review early next week. Unfortunately, I can't
finish that for this 23rd. I've spotted some uglier errors, I could try
to send them first...

Thanks

Diego Morales,


From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Jun 20 20:50:41 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2008 11:50:41 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-i18n] Improving mailman pt_BR translation
In-Reply-To: <485BFB6D.3020509@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC187020080620115041003106ed4c88@msapiro>

Diego Morales wrote:
>
>Mark Sapiro escreveu:
>> 
>> There is some time urgency here as I am in the middle of the release
>> cycle for Mailman 2.1.11 which we hope will be the final release on
>> the 2.1 branch. I was hoping to release 2.1.11 final on June 23, but I
>> can make this a 2.1.11rc2 release and wait a bit for your updates.


>Well, I hope to do that review early next week. Unfortunately, I can't
>finish that for this 23rd. I've spotted some uglier errors, I could try
>to send them first...


If I go ahead and release 2.1.11rc2 on the 23rd and plan the final
release on June 30, can you have your changes complete in time for the
final?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From dgmorales at gmail.com  Fri Jun 20 22:53:36 2008
From: dgmorales at gmail.com (Diego Morales)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2008 17:53:36 -0300
Subject: [Mailman-i18n] Improving mailman pt_BR translation
In-Reply-To: <PC187020080620115041003106ed4c88@msapiro>
References: <PC187020080620115041003106ed4c88@msapiro>
Message-ID: <485C18D0.2060008@gmail.com>


Mark Sapiro escreveu:
...
> 
> If I go ahead and release 2.1.11rc2 on the 23rd and plan the final
> release on June 30, can you have your changes complete in time for the
> final?
> 

Well, I'm waiting for answers from the previous translators, but anyway...

Yes, I can.

Diego.

From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Jun 23 21:48:47 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2008 12:48:47 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-i18n] Mailman 2.1.11rc1 has been released
Message-ID: <485FFE1F.9090407@msapiro.net>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

I am happy to announce the release of the second release candidate for
Mailman 2.1.11.

Mailman 2.1.11 is a cleanup of a few problems found since the release of
Mailman 2.1.10. It fixes the issue of shunted email subscribe requests
and a few minor issues. It updates the contrib/mmdsr script for some
2.1.10 and 2.1.11 log and error messages, and it adds a new cron to cull
and optionally archive old entries in the 'bad' and 'shunt' queues. See
the release notes at
<http://sourceforge.net/project/shownotes.php?group_id=103&release_id=605074>
for details.

Mailman is free software for managing email mailing lists and
e-newsletters. Mailman is used for all the python.org and
SourceForge.net mailing lists, as well as at hundreds of other sites.

For more information, including download links, please see:

http://www.list.org
http://mailman.sf.net
http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman

At this point I anticipate releasing 2.1.11 final on June 30.  I am
currently waiting for some updates to the Brazilian Portuguese (pt-BR)
translation.  At this point, I expect that to be the only change from
2.1.11rc2 to 2.1.11 final.

- --
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

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From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Jun 23 21:58:49 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2008 12:58:49 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-i18n] Mailman 2.1.11rc2 has been released
In-Reply-To: <485FFE1F.9090407@msapiro.net>
References: <485FFE1F.9090407@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <48600079.1000106@msapiro.net>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Resending with the correct subject (2.1.11rc2, not 2.1.11rc1). Sorry for
any confusion.

Mark Sapiro wrote:
| I am happy to announce the release of the second release candidate for
| Mailman 2.1.11.
|
| Mailman 2.1.11 is a cleanup of a few problems found since the release of
| Mailman 2.1.10. It fixes the issue of shunted email subscribe requests
| and a few minor issues. It updates the contrib/mmdsr script for some
| 2.1.10 and 2.1.11 log and error messages, and it adds a new cron to cull
| and optionally archive old entries in the 'bad' and 'shunt' queues. See
| the release notes at
|
<http://sourceforge.net/project/shownotes.php?group_id=103&release_id=605074>

|
| for details.
|
| Mailman is free software for managing email mailing lists and
| e-newsletters. Mailman is used for all the python.org and
| SourceForge.net mailing lists, as well as at hundreds of other sites.
|
| For more information, including download links, please see:
|
| http://www.list.org
| http://mailman.sf.net
| http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman
|
| At this point I anticipate releasing 2.1.11 final on June 30.  I am
| currently waiting for some updates to the Brazilian Portuguese (pt-BR)
| translation.  At this point, I expect that to be the only change from
| 2.1.11rc2 to 2.1.11 final.
|

- --
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

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From clytie at riverland.net.au  Tue Jun 24 07:59:27 2008
From: clytie at riverland.net.au (Clytie Siddall)
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2008 15:29:27 +0930
Subject: [Mailman-i18n] [Pootle] Web UI for translation
In-Reply-To: <20080623092325.GT20989@garp.metalab.unc.edu>
References: <B2FCB8CD-6680-4996-A7EF-B203F6B35AB5@zone12.com>
	<7D8A90BB-AEE2-4BF7-9779-3FEDEA1CA783@list.org>
	<20080619204206.GE18617@garp.metalab.unc.edu>
	<815D82AF-408B-43C4-B731-03CBEFBFD74D@list.org>
	<20080619215442.GF18617@garp.metalab.unc.edu>
	<FC49CDB4-EC2D-4DE9-AE57-680D36962A5E@riverland.net.au>
	<20080621190738.GE20989@garp.metalab.unc.edu>
	<EDA2AD11-3435-49BF-9E99-F2E2B6D8128F@riverland.net.au>
	<20080622171939.GJ20989@garp.metalab.unc.edu>
	<B2608678-A360-411F-9713-19A0BD0A6617@riverland.net.au>
	<20080623092325.GT20989@garp.metalab.unc.edu>
Message-ID: <8086019C-0213-42BB-BF6C-F1D32690CCC4@riverland.net.au>

To: Crist?bal, Mailman-i18n
____________________________

Hi everyone :)

Yes, the Mailman project is currently testing a Web distributed- 
translation interface: Pootle. You may well have encountered Pootle in  
other projects: it's a big help. You can choose to translate online,  
offline or a combination of both, but it means all your files are  
current and available on the Web. Pootle has a number of built-in  
tools which streamline the l10n workflow.

Crist?bal has been doing all the work, and I have been heckling, er,  
helping him. ;)

On 23/06/2008, at 6:53 PM, Crist?bal Palmer wrote:

> On Mon, Jun 23, 2008 at 05:31:22PM +0930, Clytie Siddall wrote:
>>
>> Would you please create a "Mailman" project, then upload the  
>> current PO
>> files (or just a couple of different languages, including vi.po, if  
>> you
>> don't want to upload them all)?
>
> I uploaded a few for testing. You can go here:
>
>  http://garp.metalab.unc.edu:8080/projects/mailman/admin.html

[Note: this is a _temporary_ address. Translators, please don't  
register or login yet. This address will change.]
>
>
> to add a language and from there upload more files yourself.

It looks good! :)
>
>
>> For example, Mailman uses git: Pootle syncs with git, but you will  
>> want
>> to test that.
>
> Do I have to install a plugin or somesuch? I thought mailman (as a
> project) used bzr?

My mistake: I've confused you with another project. Mailman was the  
reason I requested Pootle support _bzr_. And it does. Pootle supports  
quite a few source-control systems now.
>
>
>> Later on, you may want to create separate projects for different  
>> parts
>> of Mailman, e.g.
>>
>> Mailman TRUNK
>> Mailman STABLE
>> Mailman (branch)
>> Mailman website
>> Mailman wiki
>>
>> You may even want to split the very large Mailman PO file into  
>> several
>> pieces within each project. That will attract more participation.
>
> I went ahead and started with a "mailman trunk" project and pulled the
> few .po files from the sourceforge repo here:
>
>  https://mailman.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/mailman
>
> Please let me know if that's wrong. Let me know what our next step in
> this process is. At some point maybe this discussion should move to
> mailman-i18n instead of CC-ing Barry constantly?

That's a good idea. I've copied this mail to mailman-i18n.

The Mailman TRUNK project looks fine. I would suggest simply uploading  
the mailman.po file: there's no need to include the LC_MESSAGES  
directory. That would just mean an extra step each time anyone wanted  
to edit the file.

I also think we should split the mailman.po file into several smaller  
files. People are more likely to spend their half-hour or hour of  
spare time working on a smaller file, because they can see the effect.  
Working on a smaller file shows more success. It's finishing files and  
seeing those green bars that gives you a good feeling, not completing  
only part of a large file. (This situation has come up in other  
projects, as well.)

I tried Updating the file from SVN, but it timed out. I expect you  
haven't set that part up yet. Also, it's not really useful to test  
with SVN if we're going to be using bzr. I suggest you delete the  
current file and upload again from bzr, the latest po files, if  
possible. It's always more useful to test with current files.

Keep up the good work! A couple more steps, and we'll have a working  
Pootle server! :D

from Clytie

Vietnamese Free Software Translation Team
http://vnoss.net/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=projects:l10n



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From cmpalmer at metalab.unc.edu  Tue Jun 24 10:17:24 2008
From: cmpalmer at metalab.unc.edu (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Crist=F3bal?= Palmer)
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2008 04:17:24 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-i18n] [Pootle] Web UI for translation
In-Reply-To: <8086019C-0213-42BB-BF6C-F1D32690CCC4@riverland.net.au>
References: <20080619204206.GE18617@garp.metalab.unc.edu>
	<815D82AF-408B-43C4-B731-03CBEFBFD74D@list.org>
	<20080619215442.GF18617@garp.metalab.unc.edu>
	<FC49CDB4-EC2D-4DE9-AE57-680D36962A5E@riverland.net.au>
	<20080621190738.GE20989@garp.metalab.unc.edu>
	<EDA2AD11-3435-49BF-9E99-F2E2B6D8128F@riverland.net.au>
	<20080622171939.GJ20989@garp.metalab.unc.edu>
	<B2608678-A360-411F-9713-19A0BD0A6617@riverland.net.au>
	<20080623092325.GT20989@garp.metalab.unc.edu>
	<8086019C-0213-42BB-BF6C-F1D32690CCC4@riverland.net.au>
Message-ID: <20080624081723.GA6318@garp.metalab.unc.edu>

On Tue, Jun 24, 2008 at 03:29:27PM +0930, Clytie Siddall wrote:
>
> Crist?bal has been doing all the work, and I have been heckling, er,  
> helping him. ;)

"work" ... more like stumbling. My latest trouble is that I seem to
not have the bzr integration not done right. Pootle saw the SVN
checkout I did just fine, but the sourceforge repository is now
outdated, so I went with this:

  root at garp:/var/lib/pootle# bzr branch lp:mailman/stable mailman

but now pootle doesn't see any of the .po files. Perhaps it's because
I need to check out just messages/ and not the whole branch? I
couldn't find any terribly helpful hints here:

  http://translate.sourceforge.net/wiki/pootle/version_control

I may have to go pester people on the pootle mailing list; first I'm
going to see if there's something I've missed bzr-wise. In any event,
the pootle instance I had set up is currently broken (sorry). I'll
post back here when it's in good shape again and ready for people to
have a whack at it.

Cheers,
-- 
Crist?bal Palmer
ibiblio.org systems administrator

From clytie at riverland.net.au  Tue Jun 24 11:58:07 2008
From: clytie at riverland.net.au (Clytie Siddall)
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2008 19:28:07 +0930
Subject: [Mailman-i18n] [Pootle] Web UI for translation
In-Reply-To: <20080624081723.GA6318@garp.metalab.unc.edu>
References: <20080619204206.GE18617@garp.metalab.unc.edu>
	<815D82AF-408B-43C4-B731-03CBEFBFD74D@list.org>
	<20080619215442.GF18617@garp.metalab.unc.edu>
	<FC49CDB4-EC2D-4DE9-AE57-680D36962A5E@riverland.net.au>
	<20080621190738.GE20989@garp.metalab.unc.edu>
	<EDA2AD11-3435-49BF-9E99-F2E2B6D8128F@riverland.net.au>
	<20080622171939.GJ20989@garp.metalab.unc.edu>
	<B2608678-A360-411F-9713-19A0BD0A6617@riverland.net.au>
	<20080623092325.GT20989@garp.metalab.unc.edu>
	<8086019C-0213-42BB-BF6C-F1D32690CCC4@riverland.net.au>
	<20080624081723.GA6318@garp.metalab.unc.edu>
Message-ID: <A6AFDCC1-5D32-477F-BD2B-80BEBA55F9EE@riverland.net.au>


On 24/06/2008, at 5:47 PM, Crist?bal Palmer wrote:

> On Tue, Jun 24, 2008 at 03:29:27PM +0930, Clytie Siddall wrote:
>>
>> Crist?bal has been doing all the work, and I have been heckling, er,
>> helping him. ;)
>
> "work" ... more like stumbling. My latest trouble is that I seem to
> not have the bzr integration not done right. Pootle saw the SVN
> checkout I did just fine, but the sourceforge repository is now
> outdated, so I went with this:
>
>  root at garp:/var/lib/pootle# bzr branch lp:mailman/stable mailman
>
> but now pootle doesn't see any of the .po files. Perhaps it's because
> I need to check out just messages/ and not the whole branch?

It could be that. Perhaps we need to checkout the whole branch, then  
delete the enclosing directories.
> I
> couldn't find any terribly helpful hints here:
>
>  http://translate.sourceforge.net/wiki/pootle/version_control

I don't think anyone has discussed the bzr sync on the Pootle list for  
a while. This is a good opportunity. :)
>
>
> I may have to go pester people on the pootle mailing list; first I'm
> going to see if there's something I've missed bzr-wise. In any event,
> the pootle instance I had set up is currently broken (sorry). I'll
> post back here when it's in good shape again and ready for people to
> have a whack at it.

This is standard for a testing phase. So, Mailman translators, please  
view this as keeping you informed. When we do have a server ready for  
you to use, we'll definitely say so. ;)

from Clytie

Vietnamese Free Software Translation Team
http://vnoss.net/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=projects:l10n



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From jordi at sindominio.net  Tue Jun 24 17:54:02 2008
From: jordi at sindominio.net (Jordi Mallach)
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2008 17:54:02 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-i18n] New translation team for Catalan
Message-ID: <20080624155402.GA12389@nubol.oskuro.net>

Hello,

With this message I'd like to announce that David Planella and Jordi
Mallach have been working on completing and correcting Mailman's Catalan
translation for some while, and this work was very recently accepted in
the upcoming 2.1.11 release.

Due to this release being imminent when we contacted Mark Sapiro, we
did not have time to complete the first review pass, but we plan to
continue to work on improving Catalan support in Mailman via a bzr
branch in Launchpad for Mailman 2.2 and 3.0.

We are in the process of setting up a Wiki page at Softcatal?'s homepage
with information on how to contribute, coordination mailing list info
and so on.

I've updated the internationalisation page to reflect the changes to the
Catalan Mailman team. David and I would like to thank Robert and the
other contributors who helped kickstart this translation years ago, and
we'd be delighted to be able to have them participate in the new list if
they wish. You're more than welcome!

Jordi
-- 
Jordi Mallach P?rez  --  Debian developer     http://www.debian.org/
jordi at sindominio.net     jordi at debian.org     http://www.sindominio.net/
GnuPG public key information available at http://oskuro.net/
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From clytie at riverland.net.au  Sat Jun 28 16:01:40 2008
From: clytie at riverland.net.au (Clytie Siddall)
Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2008 23:31:40 +0930
Subject: [Mailman-i18n] Malicious subscriptions
Message-ID: <E103364F-7C02-4520-9535-C4A4D515D716@riverland.net.au>

Hi everyone :)

I hope you won't mind me asking this on the i18n list. My daughter's  
email was subscribed without her knowledge or consent to a Mailman  
list today. I wrote to the list-owners, but it struck me that there  
probably isn't much they can do about spam registrations.

All the same, I was annoyed that this had happened (I filter my  
daughter's mail to protect her), and I think other parents and people  
whose email addresses are abused in this way won't understand that  
it's not Mailman's fault.

Is Mailman doing anything to protect itself from spammers?

from Clytie

Vietnamese Free Software Translation Team
http://vnoss.net/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=projects:l10n



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From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Jun 28 17:24:43 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2008 08:24:43 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-i18n] Malicious subscriptions
In-Reply-To: <E103364F-7C02-4520-9535-C4A4D515D716@riverland.net.au>
Message-ID: <PC18702008062808244306095de6454c@msapiro>

Clytie Siddall wrote:
>
>I hope you won't mind me asking this on the i18n list.


A question like this really belongs on the Mailman-Users list, and
followups should go there.


>My daughter's  
>email was subscribed without her knowledge or consent to a Mailman  
>list today. I wrote to the list-owners, but it struck me that there  
>probably isn't much they can do about spam registrations.
>
>All the same, I was annoyed that this had happened (I filter my  
>daughter's mail to protect her), and I think other parents and people  
>whose email addresses are abused in this way won't understand that  
>it's not Mailman's fault.
>
>Is Mailman doing anything to protect itself from spammers?

No list (Mailman or not) is completely safe from spam posts unless it
is fully moderated.

Mailman is just a tool that can be used or abused like any other. If a
site allows only trusted people to create lists and all lists require
subscription confirmation, that site's Mailman lists are pretty safe
from unwanted subscribes.

If you encounter a Mailman list that appears to be set up as a spam
vehicle, the best approach is to contact the abuse and postmaster
addresses at the hosting provider to complain. Of course, if someone
has installed Mailman on his/her own workstation or server, there is
no direct hosting provider, but the mail is still going out through
some service that is either a spammer itself, in which case there's
not much you can do, or it is a reputable service whose terms of
service are being violated.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From barry at list.org  Mon Jun 30 14:16:56 2008
From: barry at list.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2008 08:16:56 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-i18n] Using Pootle
In-Reply-To: <16A200E3-FCEB-4367-97ED-56E98B965A17@riverland.net.au>
References: <47D31C99.10103@msapiro.net>
	<Pine.A41.4.58.0803100949150.782356@beluga.user.services.metu.edu.tr>
	<p06240800c3fb93a0f72f@[192.168.1.199]>
	<90B310F8-E15B-46ED-AE64-DA2A67637B70@riverland.net.au>
	<24159195-A763-44D6-A477-5A62C42B5740@list.org>
	<16A200E3-FCEB-4367-97ED-56E98B965A17@riverland.net.au>
Message-ID: <E1CDC93C-B91C-49E6-B8AF-C45C8400D00D@list.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Thanks Cristobal and Clytie for helping set this up.  I encourage all  
translators to give this a chance so we can decide whether to move to  
it officially, try something else, or keep the status quo.

I've added a NEWS item on the wiki pointing to this Pootle instance,  
and I've added a link on the i18n page.  I'd really like to get  
feedback from folks about whether we should switch or not.

Ideally, anything we move to would make both translators and  
developers lives easier.  For the latter, Pootle offers a possibility  
here, since we can hook it up to Bazaar and have it get automatic  
updates of the .pot file.  Although I haven't found it yet, I'm hoping  
there's one button Mark or I could push to get all the current  
translation updates whenever we're ready to make a new release.

But (not speaking for Mark), I think it would be okay for us to go  
through a little more pain if Pootle is a clear win for translators.   
The current status quo is far from ideal for all of us.

For the record, the other option is Launchpad translations.  Should we  
do a fair bake-off between them?

On Apr 22, 2008, at 10:23 AM, Clytie Siddall wrote:

>> I'd like to have some ability for cross-project pollination.  The  
>> idea being that it's good to have Vietnamese experts who contribute  
>> to lots of open source projects,  and can learn about Mailman, with  
>> an easy way to share translations across projects. I don't know if  
>> that's a typical way translators work though, or if they would find  
>> it a benefit to have such a system.
>
> I agree with you, and I've been trying to work out some way we can  
> cross-pollinate effectively. As it is, I meet the same people on a  
> lot of the i18n mailing lists, but there's no coordination of all  
> that skill and interest. The Translate Wiki, which is associated  
> with Pootle, tries to create central resources for translators.  
> Maybe we could work out something with the Wordforge people.

There's an interesting issue which came up recently regarding  
Launchpad translations.  Cross-pollination has to carefully consider  
copyright assignments across projects.  For example, Mailman could  
accept translations from any translator that has assigned their  
copyrights to the FSF.  It could also probably accept translations  
from any other GPL'd program.  But if translated strings were  
suggested from a non-GPL'd program, I think we might not be able to  
accept such strings.

Ultimately, it's up to the translator to understand and enforce the  
rules.  But it could cause the Mailman project (or at least the non- 
English versions of it) a lot of pain if there were license violations  
here.

> OK, there's lots of info on how to run and use Pootle here:
>
> http://translate.sourceforge.net/wiki/pootle/index
>
> If there's any info that you can't find, or any other problems,  
> please ask on the Pootle mailing list (details at the address  
> above). The devs are very helpful.
>
> Using Pootle is a really good step, because it removes a lot of the  
> barriers to participation in transation. All a translator needs is a  
> browser and a Net connection, and s/he can do a few strings at any  
> time, from anywhere. You can also do part, or all of your work  
> offline sometimes or always, if you prefer: Pootle is a tool  
> provided to give you more choices, not less.
>
> For offline editing, Linux and Windows [1] translators can also try  
> the new Wordforge editor (cousin to Pootle), Pootling:
>
> http://www.khmeros.info/drupal/?q=en/download/Translation_Editor
>
> I've had good feedback on it from some new translators. :)

Clytie, again, thanks for your leadership here.  Cristobal (apologies  
for the missing accent character ;), thanks for your technological  
assistance here too!

- -Barry

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From linux at zamirfamily.com  Mon Jun 30 16:17:21 2008
From: linux at zamirfamily.com (Dov Zamir)
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2008 17:17:21 +0300
Subject: [Mailman-i18n] Using Pootle
In-Reply-To: <E1CDC93C-B91C-49E6-B8AF-C45C8400D00D@list.org>
References: <47D31C99.10103@msapiro.net>	<Pine.A41.4.58.0803100949150.782356@beluga.user.services.metu.edu.tr>	<p06240800c3fb93a0f72f@[192.168.1.199]>	<90B310F8-E15B-46ED-AE64-DA2A67637B70@riverland.net.au>	<24159195-A763-44D6-A477-5A62C42B5740@list.org>	<16A200E3-FCEB-4367-97ED-56E98B965A17@riverland.net.au>
	<E1CDC93C-B91C-49E6-B8AF-C45C8400D00D@list.org>
Message-ID: <4868EAF1.40200@zamirfamily.com>

????? Barry Warsaw:
Hi Guys,

Why don't I see Hebrew on the Pootle experimental site. Was I supposed 
to do something to get it there?

> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> Thanks Cristobal and Clytie for helping set this up. I encourage all 
> translators to give this a chance so we can decide whether to move to 
> it officially, try something else, or keep the status quo.
>
> I've added a NEWS item on the wiki pointing to this Pootle instance, 
> and I've added a link on the i18n page. I'd really like to get 
> feedback from folks about whether we should switch or not.
>
> Ideally, anything we move to would make both translators and 
> developers lives easier. For the latter, Pootle offers a possibility 
> here, since we can hook it up to Bazaar and have it get automatic 
> updates of the .pot file. Although I haven't found it yet, I'm hoping 
> there's one button Mark or I could push to get all the current 
> translation updates whenever we're ready to make a new release.
>
> But (not speaking for Mark), I think it would be okay for us to go 
> through a little more pain if Pootle is a clear win for translators. 
> The current status quo is far from ideal for all of us.
>
> For the record, the other option is Launchpad translations. Should we 
> do a fair bake-off between them?
>
> On Apr 22, 2008, at 10:23 AM, Clytie Siddall wrote:
>
>>> I'd like to have some ability for cross-project pollination. The 
>>> idea being that it's good to have Vietnamese experts who contribute 
>>> to lots of open source projects, and can learn about Mailman, with 
>>> an easy way to share translations across projects. I don't know if 
>>> that's a typical way translators work though, or if they would find 
>>> it a benefit to have such a system.
>>
>> I agree with you, and I've been trying to work out some way we can 
>> cross-pollinate effectively. As it is, I meet the same people on a 
>> lot of the i18n mailing lists, but there's no coordination of all 
>> that skill and interest. The Translate Wiki, which is associated with 
>> Pootle, tries to create central resources for translators. Maybe we 
>> could work out something with the Wordforge people.
>
> There's an interesting issue which came up recently regarding 
> Launchpad translations. Cross-pollination has to carefully consider 
> copyright assignments across projects. For example, Mailman could 
> accept translations from any translator that has assigned their 
> copyrights to the FSF. It could also probably accept translations from 
> any other GPL'd program. But if translated strings were suggested from 
> a non-GPL'd program, I think we might not be able to accept such strings.
>
> Ultimately, it's up to the translator to understand and enforce the 
> rules. But it could cause the Mailman project (or at least the 
> non-English versions of it) a lot of pain if there were license 
> violations here.
>
>> OK, there's lots of info on how to run and use Pootle here:
>>
>> http://translate.sourceforge.net/wiki/pootle/index
>>
>> If there's any info that you can't find, or any other problems, 
>> please ask on the Pootle mailing list (details at the address above). 
>> The devs are very helpful.
>>
>> Using Pootle is a really good step, because it removes a lot of the 
>> barriers to participation in transation. All a translator needs is a 
>> browser and a Net connection, and s/he can do a few strings at any 
>> time, from anywhere. You can also do part, or all of your work 
>> offline sometimes or always, if you prefer: Pootle is a tool provided 
>> to give you more choices, not less.
>>
>> For offline editing, Linux and Windows [1] translators can also try 
>> the new Wordforge editor (cousin to Pootle), Pootling:
>>
>> http://www.khmeros.info/drupal/?q=en/download/Translation_Editor
>>
>> I've had good feedback on it from some new translators. :)
>
> Clytie, again, thanks for your leadership here. Cristobal (apologies 
> for the missing accent character ;), thanks for your technological 
> assistance here too!
>
> - -Barry
>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (Darwin)
>
> iEYEARECAAYFAkhozroACgkQ2YZpQepbvXGR3ACbBL/P28FHuAnT48CCEmGdkJ37
> k7sAn3fjiV8XGjDgMZLIvJHCYuggMkV+
> =VWoW
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
> _______________________________________________
> Mailman-i18n mailing list
> Posts: Mailman-i18n at python.org
> Unsubscribe: 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-i18n/linux%40zamirfamily.com 
>
>
> !DSPAM:506,4868cee8142132481111630!


From cmpalmer at metalab.unc.edu  Mon Jun 30 16:40:44 2008
From: cmpalmer at metalab.unc.edu (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Crist=F3bal?= Palmer)
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2008 10:40:44 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-i18n] Using Pootle
In-Reply-To: <4868EAF1.40200@zamirfamily.com>
References: <47D31C99.10103@msapiro.net>
	<Pine.A41.4.58.0803100949150.782356@beluga.user.services.metu.edu.tr>
	<p06240800c3fb93a0f72f@[192.168.1.199]>
	<90B310F8-E15B-46ED-AE64-DA2A67637B70@riverland.net.au>
	<24159195-A763-44D6-A477-5A62C42B5740@list.org>
	<16A200E3-FCEB-4367-97ED-56E98B965A17@riverland.net.au>
	<E1CDC93C-B91C-49E6-B8AF-C45C8400D00D@list.org>
	<4868EAF1.40200@zamirfamily.com>
Message-ID: <20080630144044.GI21190@garp.metalab.unc.edu>

On Mon, Jun 30, 2008 at 05:17:21PM +0300, Dov Zamir wrote:
> ????? Barry Warsaw:
> Hi Guys,
>
> Why don't I see Hebrew on the Pootle experimental site. Was I supposed  
> to do something to get it there?

Hmmm. The Hebrew (he/) directory is on disk from the bzr checkout, but
the web (pootle) interface doesn't show it. I'll check to see if
there's something on the pootle end that I have to do to enable
it. Clytie?  Any clues?

Cheers,
-- 
Crist?bal Palmer
ibiblio.org systems administrator

From cmpalmer at metalab.unc.edu  Mon Jun 30 16:51:19 2008
From: cmpalmer at metalab.unc.edu (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Crist=F3bal?= Palmer)
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2008 10:51:19 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-i18n] Using Pootle
In-Reply-To: <20080630144044.GI21190@garp.metalab.unc.edu>
References: <47D31C99.10103@msapiro.net>
	<Pine.A41.4.58.0803100949150.782356@beluga.user.services.metu.edu.tr>
	<p06240800c3fb93a0f72f@[192.168.1.199]>
	<90B310F8-E15B-46ED-AE64-DA2A67637B70@riverland.net.au>
	<24159195-A763-44D6-A477-5A62C42B5740@list.org>
	<16A200E3-FCEB-4367-97ED-56E98B965A17@riverland.net.au>
	<E1CDC93C-B91C-49E6-B8AF-C45C8400D00D@list.org>
	<4868EAF1.40200@zamirfamily.com>
	<20080630144044.GI21190@garp.metalab.unc.edu>
Message-ID: <20080630145119.GJ21190@garp.metalab.unc.edu>

On Mon, Jun 30, 2008 at 10:40:44AM -0400, Crist?bal Palmer wrote:
> On Mon, Jun 30, 2008 at 05:17:21PM +0300, Dov Zamir wrote:
> > ????? Barry Warsaw:
> > Hi Guys,
> >
> > Why don't I see Hebrew on the Pootle experimental site. Was I supposed  
> > to do something to get it there?
> 
> Hmmm. The Hebrew (he/) directory is on disk from the bzr checkout, but
> the web (pootle) interface doesn't show it. I'll check to see if
> there's something on the pootle end that I have to do to enable
> it. Clytie?  Any clues?

Hi,

I need the following info to add Hebrew from the web interface:
"special characters," "number of plurals," and "plural equation". The
line in the web interface for Swedish, for example:

ISO	Full	Special	# of	plural		
code	Name	Chars	plurals	equation	

sv	Swedish		2	(n != 1)	

What would it look like for Hebrew? So far I have:

he	Hebrew	...?

Clytie and Barry have admin rights, to they can theoretically go and
add Hebrew here: http://pootle.metalab.unc.edu/admin/languages.html

Cheers,
-- 
Crist?bal Palmer
ibiblio.org systems administrator

From jordi at sindominio.net  Mon Jun 30 16:52:15 2008
From: jordi at sindominio.net (Jordi Mallach)
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2008 16:52:15 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-i18n] Using Pootle
In-Reply-To: <E1CDC93C-B91C-49E6-B8AF-C45C8400D00D@list.org>
References: <47D31C99.10103@msapiro.net>
	<Pine.A41.4.58.0803100949150.782356@beluga.user.services.metu.edu.tr>
	<p06240800c3fb93a0f72f@[192.168.1.199]>
	<90B310F8-E15B-46ED-AE64-DA2A67637B70@riverland.net.au>
	<24159195-A763-44D6-A477-5A62C42B5740@list.org>
	<16A200E3-FCEB-4367-97ED-56E98B965A17@riverland.net.au>
	<E1CDC93C-B91C-49E6-B8AF-C45C8400D00D@list.org>
Message-ID: <20080630145214.GA6724@nubol.oskuro.net>

Hi,

On Mon, Jun 30, 2008 at 08:16:56AM -0400, Barry Warsaw wrote:
> Thanks Cristobal and Clytie for helping set this up.  I encourage all  
> translators to give this a chance so we can decide whether to move to  
> it officially, try something else, or keep the status quo.

If it becomes "official", will we (language teams) have the option to
opt-out and work like we recently did for the 2.0.11 release, using a
Launchpad team and a bzr branch that can be pulled by you or Mark?

That means that our language would be locked or something, to avoid work
duplication.

Jordi
-- 
Jordi Mallach P?rez  --  Debian developer     http://www.debian.org/
jordi at sindominio.net     jordi at debian.org     http://www.sindominio.net/
GnuPG public key information available at http://oskuro.net/
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From linux at zamirfamily.com  Mon Jun 30 18:18:44 2008
From: linux at zamirfamily.com (Dov Zamir)
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2008 19:18:44 +0300
Subject: [Mailman-i18n] Using Pootle
In-Reply-To: <20080630145119.GJ21190@garp.metalab.unc.edu>
References: <47D31C99.10103@msapiro.net>	<Pine.A41.4.58.0803100949150.782356@beluga.user.services.metu.edu.tr>	<p06240800c3fb93a0f72f@[192.168.1.199]>	<90B310F8-E15B-46ED-AE64-DA2A67637B70@riverland.net.au>	<24159195-A763-44D6-A477-5A62C42B5740@list.org>	<16A200E3-FCEB-4367-97ED-56E98B965A17@riverland.net.au>	<E1CDC93C-B91C-49E6-B8AF-C45C8400D00D@list.org>	<4868EAF1.40200@zamirfamily.com>	<20080630144044.GI21190@garp.metalab.unc.edu>
	<20080630145119.GJ21190@garp.metalab.unc.edu>
Message-ID: <48690764.4030808@zamirfamily.com>

Crist?bal Palmer wrote:
> On Mon, Jun 30, 2008 at 10:40:44AM -0400, Crist?bal Palmer wrote:
>   
>> On Mon, Jun 30, 2008 at 05:17:21PM +0300, Dov Zamir wrote:
>>     
>>> ????? Barry Warsaw:
>>> Hi Guys,
>>>
>>> Why don't I see Hebrew on the Pootle experimental site. Was I supposed  
>>> to do something to get it there?
>>>       
>> Hmmm. The Hebrew (he/) directory is on disk from the bzr checkout, but
>> the web (pootle) interface doesn't show it. I'll check to see if
>> there's something on the pootle end that I have to do to enable
>> it. Clytie?  Any clues?
>>     
>
> Hi,
>
> I need the following info to add Hebrew from the web interface:
> "special characters," "number of plurals," and "plural equation". The
> line in the web interface for Swedish, for example:
>
> ISO	Full	Special	# of	plural		
> code	Name	Chars	plurals	equation	
>
> sv	Swedish		2	(n != 1)	
>
> What would it look like for Hebrew? So far I have:
>
> he	Hebrew	...?
>
> Clytie and Barry have admin rights, to they can theoretically go and
> add Hebrew here: http://pootle.metalab.unc.edu/admin/languages.html
>
> Cheers,
>   
I'd be happy to add my 2 cents, but  I really have no idea what this 
means :-(


From sveinki at nett.is  Mon Jun 30 19:02:34 2008
From: sveinki at nett.is (=?UTF-8?B?IlN2ZWlubiDDrSBGZWxsaSAoSU1BUCki?=)
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2008 17:02:34 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-i18n] Using Pootle
In-Reply-To: <cmu-lmtpd-96078-1214842783-1@postur.skrin.is>
References: <47D31C99.10103@msapiro.net>	<Pine.A41.4.58.0803100949150.782356@beluga.user.services.metu.edu.tr>	<p06240800c3fb93a0f72f@[192.168.1.199]>	<90B310F8-E15B-46ED-AE64-DA2A67637B70@riverland.net.au>	<24159195-A763-44D6-A477-5A62C42B5740@list.org>	<16A200E3-FCEB-4367-97ED-56E98B965A17@riverland.net.au>	<E1CDC93C-B91C-49E6-B8AF-C45C8400D00D@list.org>	<4868EAF1.40200@zamirfamily.com>	<20080630144044.GI21190@garp.metalab.unc.edu>	<20080630145119.GJ21190@garp.metalab.unc.edu>
	<cmu-lmtpd-96078-1214842783-1@postur.skrin.is>
Message-ID: <20080630172127.F19521E4015@bag.python.org>

Hi there:

Dov Zamir wrote:
> Crist?bal Palmer wrote:
>> On Mon, Jun 30, 2008 at 10:40:44AM -0400, Crist?bal Palmer wrote:
>>  
>>> On Mon, Jun 30, 2008 at 05:17:21PM +0300, Dov Zamir wrote:
>>>    
>>>> ????? Barry Warsaw:
>>>> Hi Guys,
>>>>
>>>> Why don't I see Hebrew on the Pootle experimental site. Was I 
>>>> supposed  to do something to get it there?
>>>>       
>>> Hmmm. The Hebrew (he/) directory is on disk from the bzr checkout, but
>>> the web (pootle) interface doesn't show it. I'll check to see if
>>> there's something on the pootle end that I have to do to enable
>>> it. Clytie?  Any clues?
>>>     
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I need the following info to add Hebrew from the web interface:
>> "special characters," "number of plurals," and "plural equation". The
>> line in the web interface for Swedish, for example:
>>
>> ISO    Full    Special    # of    plural       
>> code    Name    Chars    plurals    equation   
>>
>> sv    Swedish        2    (n != 1)   
>>
>> What would it look like for Hebrew? So far I have:
>>
>> he    Hebrew    ...?
>>
>> Clytie and Barry have admin rights, to they can theoretically go and
>> add Hebrew here: http://pootle.metalab.unc.edu/admin/languages.html
>>
>> Cheers,
>>   
> I'd be happy to add my 2 cents, but  I really have no idea what this 
> means :-(

Well, I don't really know the meaning excact of this string, 
but in headers of hebrew KDE.po files there's often the 
following line:

"Plural-Forms:  nplurals=2; plural=(n != 1);\n"

Best is to check with other translation groups (KDE, GNOME, 
GNU or whatever) or contact academic/linguistic specialists.

Sveinn ? Felli
Linux translator to Icelandic


From cmpalmer at metalab.unc.edu  Mon Jun 30 20:04:26 2008
From: cmpalmer at metalab.unc.edu (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Crist=F3bal?= Palmer)
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2008 14:04:26 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-i18n] Using Pootle
In-Reply-To: <20080630170242.49CB7482AD@metalab.unc.edu>
References: <p06240800c3fb93a0f72f@[192.168.1.199]>
	<90B310F8-E15B-46ED-AE64-DA2A67637B70@riverland.net.au>
	<24159195-A763-44D6-A477-5A62C42B5740@list.org>
	<16A200E3-FCEB-4367-97ED-56E98B965A17@riverland.net.au>
	<E1CDC93C-B91C-49E6-B8AF-C45C8400D00D@list.org>
	<4868EAF1.40200@zamirfamily.com>
	<20080630144044.GI21190@garp.metalab.unc.edu>
	<20080630145119.GJ21190@garp.metalab.unc.edu>
	<cmu-lmtpd-96078-1214842783-1@postur.skrin.is>
	<20080630170242.49CB7482AD@metalab.unc.edu>
Message-ID: <20080630180426.GL21190@garp.metalab.unc.edu>

On Mon, Jun 30, 2008 at 05:02:34PM +0000, "Sveinn ? Felli (IMAP)" wrote:
> Hi there:
>
> Dov Zamir wrote:

<snip />

>> I'd be happy to add my 2 cents, but  I really have no idea what this  
>> means :-(
>
> Well, I don't really know the meaning excact of this string, but in 
> headers of hebrew KDE.po files there's often the following line:
>
> "Plural-Forms:  nplurals=2; plural=(n != 1);\n"
>
> Best is to check with other translation groups (KDE, GNOME, GNU or 
> whatever) or contact academic/linguistic specialists.
>

Well, using that as a base, I'm sure we can adjust if there's a
problem. Once I added Hebrew as a language option from the pootle
interface, it picked up what was on disk right away:

http://pootle.metalab.unc.edu/he/mailman/LC_MESSAGES/?

Any other languages missing?

Cheers,
-- 
Crist?bal Palmer
ibiblio.org systems administrator

From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Jun 30 21:15:42 2008
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2008 12:15:42 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-i18n] Mailman 2.1.11 final has been released.
Message-ID: <486930DE.6050202@msapiro.net>

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I am happy to announce the final release of the Mailman 2.1.11.

Mailman 2.1.11 is a cleanup of a few problems found since the release of
Mailman 2.1.10. It fixes the issue of shunted email subscribe requests
and a few minor issues. It updates the contrib/mmdsr script for some
2.1.10 and 2.1.11 log and error messages, and it adds a new cron to cull
and optionally archive old entries in the 'bad' and 'shunt' queues.

Mailman 2.1.11 has updates to several i18n translations.

A few bounce log messages now have the list name prepended.

There is a new Defaults.py|mm_cfg.py setting
ACCEPTABLE_LISTNAME_CHARACTERS with default value '[-+_.=a-z0-9]'.  This
Python regular expression character class specifies the characters
allowed in list names.  The motivation for this is the fact that
previously, a list named, e.g., xxx&yyy could be created and MTA aliases
generated that would cause the MTA to execute yyy as a command.  There
is a possible security issue  here, but it is not believed to be
exploitable in any meaningful way.

If anyone is concerned about the security issue and not ready to
upgrade, the mailman-2.1.11-listname-patch file contains a patch that
can be applied to Mailman 2.1.9 or 2.1.10 to add this feature.

See the release notes at
<http://sourceforge.net/project/shownotes.php?group_id=103&release_id=605074>
for more details.

Mailman is free software for managing email mailing lists and
e-newsletters. Mailman is used for all the python.org and
SourceForge.net mailing lists, as well as at hundreds of other sites.

For more information, including download links, please see:

http://www.list.org
http://mailman.sf.net
http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman

Files in this release are:

mailman-2.1.11.tgz                <- The full release tarball

mailman-2.1.11.tgz.sig            <- GPG signature for the tarball

mailman-2.1.11-listname.patch     <- Patch to add new listname
~                                     validation to 2.1.9 or 2.1.10.
~                                     This patch is only applicable to
~                                     the older releases.

mailman-2.1.11-listname.patch.sig <- GPG signature for the patch

- --
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

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