From barry at python.org Mon Jul 3 17:43:20 2006 From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw) Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2006 11:43:20 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-i18n] [Mailman-Developers] SoC: status update In-Reply-To: <44A406AA.9090406@mindlace.net> References: <4499A358.2040005@mindlace.net> <4499E69C.5020009@is.kochi-u.ac.jp> <44A406AA.9090406@mindlace.net> Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Jun 29, 2006, at 12:58 PM, emf wrote: > We will use UTF-8 exclusively on WUI, with the caveat that I will be > sniffing any charset information contained in emails and attempt > displaying (individual) emails with the charset referenced. I'm sure this was ages ago, but IIRC, UTF-8 was discussed at some point and the decision was made not to use it because it's support was pretty spotty in the browsers of the time. I'm sure this has improved vastly now and UTF-8 makes the most sense. > Pretty please, I need to set up a copy of someone's translation > toolchain; can someone using OS X or Linux as their work operating > system work with me to get an *exact* replica of their toolset? > > I want to make translating as painless as possible but from what I can > tell so far gettext is very low level and I suspect that people use > more > than just it to translate... am I right? Have you gotten any love on this issue Ethan? To be honest, I'm not a translator (heck, I barely speak English despite years of at least 2 other languages in high school and college :). When I was working out the basic i18n support I implemented a stupid rot13 translation using nothing more sophisticated than XEmacs and the gettext tools. Please, can any i18n'ers help Ethan out with a better tool set? - -Barry -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (Darwin) iQCVAwUBRKk7GHEjvBPtnXfVAQJ8SgP/dlOdTK59NTZrDrcWlSnD2iD29+rRazhx vO7xPUDpL68U2mhKhDVW7i3CN6afrvlR6yZ2+r6fxOJwQsEL1mjED4VCUQku6gQJ dCri7KNGGwFiLpWFSoq9OE35+p8IJg6mW1+rXokjBzuq76+uz9rI2leWhAcS1g/Y vMUeGZLhUCw= =LGTW -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From i at mindlace.net Tue Jul 4 19:30:45 2006 From: i at mindlace.net (emf) Date: Tue, 04 Jul 2006 13:30:45 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-i18n] Please Tell Me How You Translate In-Reply-To: References: <4499A358.2040005@mindlace.net> <4499E69C.5020009@is.kochi-u.ac.jp> <44A406AA.9090406@mindlace.net> Message-ID: <44AAA5C5.20701@mindlace.net> Barry Warsaw wrote: > I'm sure this was ages ago, but IIRC, UTF-8 was discussed at some point > and the decision was made not to use it because it's support was pretty > spotty in the browsers of the time. I'm sure this has improved vastly > now and UTF-8 makes the most sense. Yeah, that sounds like an early-90's conversation; UTF-8 is the one charset no browser messes up these days, as far as I know. >> Pretty please, I need to set up a copy of someone's translation >> toolchain; can someone using OS X or Linux as their work operating >> system work with me to get an *exact* replica of their toolset? > Have you gotten any love on this issue Ethan? No love as of this writing. I'm continuing to kick the i18n ball down the field until I can do a translation myself (into gods-knows-what - I'll probably have to rely on my lovely and talented wife to give Russian/Italian a stab.) > When I was working out > the basic i18n support I implemented a stupid rot13 translation using > nothing more sophisticated than XEmacs and the gettext tools. Yeah, I can do that if need be. I just assumed there was Something More out there; if not it might be worth the effort to put together a minimalist translation interface. ~ethan From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org Tue Jul 4 20:02:40 2006 From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles) Date: Tue, 4 Jul 2006 14:02:40 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Mailman-i18n] [Mailman-Developers] Please Tell Me How You Translate In-Reply-To: <44AAA5C5.20701@mindlace.net> References: <4499A358.2040005@mindlace.net> <4499E69C.5020009@is.kochi-u.ac.jp> <44A406AA.9090406@mindlace.net> <44AAA5C5.20701@mindlace.net> Message-ID: <34375.72.177.126.107.1152036160.squirrel@mail.his.com> Ethan replied to Barry: >>> Pretty please, I need to set up a copy of someone's translation >>> toolchain; can someone using OS X or Linux as their work operating >>> system work with me to get an *exact* replica of their toolset? >> >> Have you gotten any love on this issue Ethan? > > No love as of this writing. I'm continuing to kick the i18n ball down > the field until I can do a translation myself (into gods-knows-what - > I'll probably have to rely on my lovely and talented wife to give > Russian/Italian a stab.) I've got MacOS X 10.4, but I don't do any sort of translation, and I don't have the slightest clue as to how you'd go about trying to do that. I don't speak any foreign language well enough to even think about making any attempt to do so. That said, I'd be glad to provide whatever help I can. -- Brad Knowles, "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755 LOPSA member since December 2005. See . From lists at suares.an Sun Jul 9 06:47:17 2006 From: lists at suares.an (Ace Suares) Date: Sun, 9 Jul 2006 00:47:17 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-i18n] [Mailman-Developers] SoC: status update In-Reply-To: <44A406AA.9090406@mindlace.net> References: <4499A358.2040005@mindlace.net> <4499E69C.5020009@is.kochi-u.ac.jp> <44A406AA.9090406@mindlace.net> Message-ID: <200607090047.17651.lists@suares.an> Dear fellows, I am pretty new to this translation stuff, but as I understand, using KBabel (under Linux +KDE) is working for us now. But I don't know what you ar elooking for exactly. There are these .po files and with KBabel or PoEditor (works under windows too) filling in the translations strings seems pretty trivial. But as I said, I am new to this and I have yet to upload the first translation (made by Jan Veuger for the Dutch language). Barry, I noticed you have some stuff on Launcpad, some bzr branches, but they seem not to work (no route to host for cvs.sourceforge). Could that be fixed since I' like to look at the branch more closely. Cheers, Ace On Thursday 29 June 2006 12:58, emf wrote: > Tokio Kikuchi wrote: {snip} > > Pretty please, I need to set up a copy of someone's translation > toolchain; can someone using OS X or Linux as their work operating > system work with me to get an *exact* replica of their toolset? > > I want to make translating as painless as possible but from what I can > tell so far gettext is very low level and I suspect that people use > more than just it to translate... am I right? > > ~ethan > _______________________________________________ > Mailman-i18n mailing list > Posts: Mailman-i18n at python.org > Unsubscribe: > http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-i18n/lists%40suares.an -- "To be nobody but yourself in a world which is doing its best, night and day, to make you like everybody else, means to fight the hardest battle any human being can fight and never stop fighting." - E. E. Cummings Suares & Co, Open Source Solutions mail: Gravenstraat #4, Willemstad, Curacao (NA) phone: +599 786 23 73 fax: +31 848 707 705 web: http://www.suares.an email: ace at suares.an From clytie at riverland.net.au Tue Jul 11 14:48:56 2006 From: clytie at riverland.net.au (Clytie Siddall) Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 22:18:56 +0930 Subject: [Mailman-i18n] [Mailman-Developers] Please Tell Me How You Translate In-Reply-To: <34375.72.177.126.107.1152036160.squirrel@mail.his.com> References: <4499A358.2040005@mindlace.net> <4499E69C.5020009@is.kochi-u.ac.jp> <44A406AA.9090406@mindlace.net> <44AAA5C5.20701@mindlace.net> <34375.72.177.126.107.1152036160.squirrel@mail.his.com> Message-ID: <54AB3B5B-6785-4FCB-BE77-01AD6B00F327@riverland.net.au> On 05/07/2006, at 3:32 AM, Brad Knowles wrote: > Ethan replied to Barry: > >>>> Pretty please, I need to set up a copy of someone's translation >>>> toolchain; can someone using OS X or Linux as their work operating >>>> system work with me to get an *exact* replica of their toolset? >>> >>> Have you gotten any love on this issue Ethan? >> >> No love as of this writing. I'm continuing to kick the i18n ball down >> the field until I can do a translation myself (into gods-knows-what - >> I'll probably have to rely on my lovely and talented wife to give >> Russian/Italian a stab.) > > I've got MacOS X 10.4, but I don't do any sort of translation, and > I don't > have the slightest clue as to how you'd go about trying to do that. I > don't speak any foreign language well enough to even think about > making > any attempt to do so. > > That said, I'd be glad to provide whatever help I can. > Sorry I haven't been able to answer this before. :( I'm also on OSX. OK, sample translator workflow (different procdures for different projects!): Get files: email updates, download from web, CVS or SVN. Initiallize files with translation memory: gettext (msgmerge) or TMX, via my translation editor LocFactoryEditor [1], or use Pootle [2] Translate files: LocFactoryEditor, BBEdit (text editor)[3] or Pootle, depending on type and complexity of work Check files: gettext (msgfmt), translate toolkit (pofilter) [4], spellchecking (aspell, CocoaAspell [5] and a Debian script [6]) again via LFE and/ or Pootle Send in files: email, FTP, CVS or SVN You might like to look at the Debian/Wordforge plans for a complete translation infrastructure. [7]. I believe this is the future of i18n. You're welcome to ask me for more details. That's the skeleton. from Clytie (vi-VN, Vietnamese free-software translation team / nh?m Vi?t h?a ph?n m?m t? do) http://groups-beta.google.com/group/vi-VN [1] http://www.triplespin.com/en/products/locfactoryeditor.html [2] http://translate.sourceforge.net/wiki/pootle [3] http://www.barebones.com/index.shtml [4] http://translate.sourceforge.net/wiki/toolkit/index [5] http://people.ict.usc.edu/~leuski/cocoaspell/home.html [6] svn://anonymous at svn.debian.org/svn/d-i/trunk/scripts/l10n/ [7] Not sure if this is documented in any one place, but check out the Pootle roadmap (http://translate.sourceforge.net/wiki/wordforge/ functional_specificaions) and threads starting in late May on translate-pootle (https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/ translate-pootle) and debian-i18n (http://lists.debian.org/debian- i18n/) about SoC, Wordforge and i18n infrastructure. From lists at suares.an Thu Jul 13 04:12:32 2006 From: lists at suares.an (Ace Suares) Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 22:12:32 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-i18n] [Mailman-Developers] Please Tell Me How You Translate In-Reply-To: <54AB3B5B-6785-4FCB-BE77-01AD6B00F327@riverland.net.au> References: <4499A358.2040005@mindlace.net> <34375.72.177.126.107.1152036160.squirrel@mail.his.com> <54AB3B5B-6785-4FCB-BE77-01AD6B00F327@riverland.net.au> Message-ID: <200607122212.32740.lists@suares.an> On Tuesday 11 July 2006 08:48, Clytie Siddall wrote: > You might like to look at the Debian/Wordforge plans for a complete > translation infrastructure. [7]. I believe this is the future of i18n. Since I am using launchpad now, I am confronted with rosetta. What do you think of rosetta vs wordforge? -Ace -- Babe I'm gonna see that you be back home in thirty days You don't give me no consolation I'm gonna take it to the United Nations I'm gonna see that you be back home in Thirty Days! - Chuck Berry Suares & Co, Open Source Solutions mail: Gravenstraat #4, Willemstad, Curacao (NA) phone: +599 786 23 73 fax: +31 848 707 705 web: http://www.suares.an email: ace at suares.an -- maven n : someone who is dazzlingly skilled in any field [syn: ace, adept, champion, sensation, mavin, virtuoso, genius, hotshot, star, superstar, whiz, whizz, wizard, wiz] - WordNet (r) 2.0 Suares & Co, Open Source Solutions mail: Gravenstraat #4, Willemstad, Curacao (NA) phone: +599 786 23 73 fax: +31 848 707 705 web: http://www.suares.an email: ace at suares.an From lists at suares.an Thu Jul 13 04:14:37 2006 From: lists at suares.an (Ace Suares) Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 22:14:37 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-i18n] bazaar branch on launchpad Message-ID: <200607122214.37337.lists@suares.an> Barry, it seems there is a bzr branch at launcpad for mailman and mailman translations. They don't work, i guess because sf.net changed url's. No Route to Host: cvs.sourceforge.net. Could that be fixed, and how can I help. Greeeeetings,. ace -- all my objects are disoriented Suares & Co, Open Source Solutions mail: Gravenstraat #4, Willemstad, Curacao (NA) phone: +599 786 23 73 fax: +31 848 707 705 web: http://www.suares.an email: ace at suares.an From clytie at riverland.net.au Fri Jul 14 10:24:57 2006 From: clytie at riverland.net.au (Clytie Siddall) Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 17:54:57 +0930 Subject: [Mailman-i18n] [Mailman-Developers] Please Tell Me How You Translate In-Reply-To: <200607122212.32740.lists@suares.an> References: <4499A358.2040005@mindlace.net> <34375.72.177.126.107.1152036160.squirrel@mail.his.com> <54AB3B5B-6785-4FCB-BE77-01AD6B00F327@riverland.net.au> <200607122212.32740.lists@suares.an> Message-ID: <1EB27233-CFB2-42DD-8A8A-8F4AE34641B5@riverland.net.au> On 13/07/2006, at 11:42 AM, Ace Suares wrote: > On Tuesday 11 July 2006 08:48, Clytie Siddall wrote: > >> You might like to look at the Debian/Wordforge plans for a complete >> translation infrastructure. [7]. I believe this is the future of >> i18n. > > Since I am using launchpad now, I am confronted with rosetta. What > do you > think of rosetta vs wordforge? In summary: Rosetta is not free software, Wordforge is free software. Rosetta has serious issues with access control and quality assurance which Wordforge does not. Rosetta is designed to work with one distro, Ubuntu, where the Wordforge tools are designed to work in many different situations, online, offline, as a backend or frontend, interfacing with other translation tools and structures, whatever the upstream project chooses. Rosetta is there, for Ubuntu users, so it's convenient. It doesn't work well outside Ubuntu, and has caused conflicts and a lot of wasted time for other projects. For example, the files on Rosetta are not current. You can sit down there for hours and translate a file which hasn't been translated before. You later find out that upstream, at the project which actually created that file, it has already been translated. The authorative work for any project can only occur under its management, or via direct cooperation with it. Rosetta doesn't work with the upstream projects at all. People logging into Rosetta right now can be changing our Mailman translations, and we won't even know about it. Due to the lack of quality control, the translations in Rosetta are often of low quality, causing the upstream project to receive outraged emails and bug reports about files they had already quality-checked, but which have been altered in Rosetta! Wordforge, for example Pootle, which is the online/offline translation interface, does not have any of these problems, and acts as an optional and carefully-coordinated part of upstream workflow. It's an excellent free-software project which supports the standards and works closely with any upstream project which chooses to use it. I recommend it. from Clytie (vi-VN, Vietnamese free-software translation team / nh?m Vi?t h?a ph?n m?m t? do) http://groups-beta.google.com/group/vi-VN From lists at suares.an Sun Jul 16 06:50:42 2006 From: lists at suares.an (Ace Suares) Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2006 00:50:42 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-i18n] http://www.metasystema.org/essays/reply-to-useful.html Message-ID: <200607160050.42700.lists@suares.an> Dear all, Somewhere in the 2.1.5 pot is a couple of lines that refer to http://www.metasystema.org/essays/reply-to-useful.html I always get errors on that line when using msgfmt[.py] Last time I cheked the link, it was working, but today I checked it - out of sheer frustration - and found that the site is now some domain parking site. Try it out. Can we drop the thing? Maybe it's already dropped in 2.1.8 ? _Ace -- "To be nobody but yourself in a world which is doing its best, night and day, to make you like everybody else, means to fight the hardest battle any human being can fight and never stop fighting." - E. E. Cummings Suares & Co, Open Source Solutions mail: Gravenstraat #4, Willemstad, Curacao (NA) phone: +599 786 23 73 fax: +31 848 707 705 web: http://www.suares.an email: ace at suares.an From msapiro at value.net Sun Jul 16 07:22:50 2006 From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2006 22:22:50 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-i18n] http://www.metasystema.org/essays/reply-to-useful.html In-Reply-To: <200607160050.42700.lists@suares.an> Message-ID: Ace Suares wrote: > >Somewhere in the 2.1.5 pot is a couple of lines that refer to > > http://www.metasystema.org/essays/reply-to-useful.html > >I always get errors on that line when using msgfmt[.py] > >Last time I cheked the link, it was working, but today I checked it - out >of sheer frustration - and found that the site is now some domain parking >site. Try it out. Can we drop the thing? The current, correct link is http://www.metasystema.net/essays/reply-to.mhtml This has been in the .pot since 2.1.7. (The format of the line containing it is changed too) -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From lists at suares.an Sun Jul 16 19:17:40 2006 From: lists at suares.an (Ace Suares) Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2006 13:17:40 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-i18n] Instructions for Dutch Translation 2.1.5 Message-ID: <200607161317.40181.lists@suares.an> Dear folks, the instructions and a .zip file for a better Dutch translation for mailman 2.1.5 are available at http://www.janveuger.com/mailman We hope to upload the 2.1.8 version, soon. Greetings, Jan Veuger (translator) and Ace Suares -- "To be nobody but yourself in a world which is doing its best, night and day, to make you like everybody else, means to fight the hardest battle any human being can fight and never stop fighting." - E. E. Cummings Suares & Co, Open Source Solutions mail: Gravenstraat #4, Willemstad, Curacao (NA) phone: +599 786 23 73 fax: +31 848 707 705 web: http://www.suares.an email: ace at suares.an From lists at suares.an Mon Jul 17 16:11:30 2006 From: lists at suares.an (Ace Suares) Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 10:11:30 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-i18n] Dutch Translation for 2.1.8 Message-ID: <200607171011.30211.lists@suares.an> Dear people, On http://www.janveuger.com/mailman we have now included the Dutch translation for 2.1.8 Please include this in your next release. Greetings, Ace and Jan -- Babe I'm gonna see that you be back home in thirty days You don't give me no consolation I'm gonna take it to the United Nations I'm gonna see that you be back home in Thirty Days! - Chuck Berry Suares & Co, Open Source Solutions mail: Gravenstraat #4, Willemstad, Curacao (NA) phone: +599 786 23 73 fax: +31 848 707 705 web: http://www.suares.an email: ace at suares.an From d.terweij at nettuning.net Fri Jul 21 03:05:25 2006 From: d.terweij at nettuning.net (Danny Terweij - Net Tuning | Net) Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2006 03:05:25 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-i18n] Dutch Translation for 2.1.8 References: <200607171011.30211.lists@suares.an> Message-ID: <00d501c6ac61$c37863d0$1e00a8c0@prvd321> From: "Ace Suares" > On http://www.janveuger.com/mailman we have now included the Dutch > translation for 2.1.8 > Please include this in your next release. I dont think this will work Jan / Ace. If you want to stay current use the cvs/svn whatever Mailman uses, possibilities to check in new updated files. Then when a new release is released it will have the current translation shipped with it. And before each new release of Mailman there is a development freeze so the i18n ppl can check in the translations for the new release. Danny Terweij Author Dutch translations in the past. From ahmed.shubbar at gmail.com Wed Jul 26 00:11:18 2006 From: ahmed.shubbar at gmail.com (Ahmed Shubbar) Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 01:11:18 +0300 Subject: [Mailman-i18n] arabic support Message-ID: Why is Araic translation not included with new versions of Mailman? It is available since end March: http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1459897&group_id=103&atid=300103 And I am on a shared server and thus cannot control Mailman installation. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-i18n/attachments/20060726/64f00585/attachment.html From barry at python.org Wed Jul 26 05:00:14 2006 From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw) Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2006 23:00:14 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-i18n] arabic support In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <51B9832D-3496-4727-AD08-D330F2245601@python.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Jul 25, 2006, at 6:11 PM, Ahmed Shubbar wrote: > Why is Araic translation not included with new versions of Mailman? > It is available since end March: > http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php? > func=detail&aid=1459897&group_id=103&atid=300103 > And I am on a shared server and thus cannot control Mailman > installation. We need a champion. This is someone we can contact with issues, that will take responsibility for providing updates, etc. While it's helpful to have a patch, we really need someone to provide more long term support. Would you be able to do this? Please see http://wiki.list.org/display/DEV/Languages for more information. - -Barry -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (Darwin) iQCVAwUBRMbavnEjvBPtnXfVAQJHpwQAgkdoTX1JH9nJANHpYRv2B+SdvhZPhLjX xLXs3rAT+D6bLoP8fDcCf3PXGI2gUTa23x1rNEgnFL/03XkwD/Z2GonE9SGRIsOc AgcRg3SGR0lLCuP+tsvCUxCFlcJ4xY60s7qOPPx8CewteQm1W1Trx7baVsVzsz6i JCGApz30n9s= =UMm8 -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----