From barry at python.org Mon Apr 3 20:07:32 2006 From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw) Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2006 14:07:32 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-i18n] Where to send translations? (was: Re: Mailman Arabic translation is ready In-Reply-To: <852B1869-D464-4F83-B643-9F6CC1F47877@riverland.net.au> References: <200603212140.30594.munzirtaha@gmail.com> <71943DB6-360E-414A-A8CD-698C11492CC4@riverland.net.au> <200603271659.19748.munzirtaha@gmail.com> <831AF622-6E4D-4C55-BDF9-82BD02451D07@onjapan.net> <852B1869-D464-4F83-B643-9F6CC1F47877@riverland.net.au> Message-ID: <1144087652.29362.64.camel@resist.wooz.org> On Wed, 2006-03-29 at 16:24 +1030, Clytie Siddall wrote: > I still think we need a wiki (or similar) information page for > translators, and would be willing to put time into it. Mihaly has > made some good suggestions. Very soon we will probably have a much nicer wiki for Mailman. I plan on posting about this and other developments to mailman-developers within a few days. I'm sorry I haven't personally had time to integrate these patches, but I'm trying to devote what spare time I have to improving the project so more people can get involved. As proven by Tokio's and Mark's excellent contributions, there are lots of really talented folks out in the community and I think we're under-utilizing them. My goal for 2006 is to improve that situation. -Barry -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 309 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-i18n/attachments/20060403/9f17a400/attachment.pgp From clytie at riverland.net.au Tue Apr 4 13:39:19 2006 From: clytie at riverland.net.au (Clytie Siddall) Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2006 21:09:19 +0930 Subject: [Mailman-i18n] Where to send translations? (was: Re: Mailman Arabic translation is ready In-Reply-To: <1144087652.29362.64.camel@resist.wooz.org> References: <200603212140.30594.munzirtaha@gmail.com> <71943DB6-360E-414A-A8CD-698C11492CC4@riverland.net.au> <200603271659.19748.munzirtaha@gmail.com> <831AF622-6E4D-4C55-BDF9-82BD02451D07@onjapan.net> <852B1869-D464-4F83-B643-9F6CC1F47877@riverland.net.au> <1144087652.29362.64.camel@resist.wooz.org> Message-ID: On 04/04/2006, at 3:37 AM, Barry Warsaw wrote: > On Wed, 2006-03-29 at 16:24 +1030, Clytie Siddall wrote: > >> I still think we need a wiki (or similar) information page for >> translators, and would be willing to put time into it. Mihaly has >> made some good suggestions. > > Very soon we will probably have a much nicer wiki for Mailman. I plan > on posting about this and other developments to mailman-developers > within a few days. I'm sorry I haven't personally had time to > integrate > these patches, That's OK: I said I'd do them, so I wanted to get them done. ;) > but I'm trying to devote what spare time I have to > improving the project so more people can get involved. As proven by > Tokio's and Mark's excellent contributions, there are lots of really > talented folks out in the community and I think we're under-utilizing > them. My goal for 2006 is to improve that situation. It's a good aim, and I hope I can contribute then. :) from Clytie (vi-VN, Vietnamese free-software translation team / nh?m Vi?t h?a ph?n m?m t? do) http://groups-beta.google.com/group/vi-VN -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: PGP.sig Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 186 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-i18n/attachments/20060404/4620e8d5/attachment.pgp From tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp Fri Apr 7 02:16:52 2006 From: tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp (Tokio Kikuchi) Date: Fri, 07 Apr 2006 09:16:52 +0900 Subject: [Mailman-i18n] Released: Mailman 2.1.8 release candidate Message-ID: <4435AF74.1050607@is.kochi-u.ac.jp> Hi all, Mailman 2.1.8rc1 was released for the final test of 2.1.8. Important: This is not only a release candidate but also include a fix for a cross-site scripting bug found in 2.1.7. All sites running previous versions are adviced to upgrade to 2.1.8(rc1). I am going to release the final by the next weekend if nothing serious happens. Please download it from Sourceforge file area: http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=103 Cheers, Tokio --------------------------------------------------- Here is a history of user visible changes to Mailman. 2.1.8rc1 (07-Apr-2006) Security - A cross-site scripting hole in the private archive script of 2.1.7 has been closed. Thanks to Moritz Naumann for its discovery. Bug fixes and other patches - Bouncers support added: 'unknown user', Microsoft SMTPSVC, Prodigy.net and several others. - Updated email library to 2.5.7 which will encode payload into qp/base64 upon setting. This enabled backing out the scrubber related patches including 'X-Mailman-Scrubbed' header in 2.1.7. - Fix SpamDetect.py potential hold/reject loop problem. - A warning message from email package to the stderr can cause error in Logging because stderr may be detached from the process during the qrunner run. We chose not to output errors to stderr but to the logs/error if the process is running under mailmanctl subprocess. - DKIM header cleansing was separated from Cleanse.py and added to -owner messages too. - Fixes: Lose Topics when go directly to topics URL (1194419). UnicodeError running bin/arch (1395683). edithtml.py missing import (1400128). Bad escape in cleanarch. Wrong timezone in list archive index pages (1433673). bin/arch fails with TypeError (1430236). Subscription fails with some Language combinations (1435722). Postfix delayed notification not recognized (863989). 2.1.7 (VERP) mistakes delay notice for bounce (1421285). show_qfiles: 'str' object has no attribute 'as_string' (1444447). Utils.get_domain() wrong if VIRTUAL_HOST_OVERVIEW off (1275856). Miscellaneous - Brad Knowles' mailman daily status report script updated to 0.0.16. -- Tokio Kikuchi, tkikuchi@ is.kochi-u.ac.jp http://weather.is.kochi-u.ac.jp/ From clytie at riverland.net.au Fri Apr 14 04:49:14 2006 From: clytie at riverland.net.au (Clytie Siddall) Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 12:19:14 +0930 Subject: [Mailman-i18n] How to tell if HTML templates have changed? Message-ID: Hello all :) Now I've translated all the html templates, I need to be able to monitor them for changes. Where the PO format is designed to tell us which original strings are untranslated or only partially translated, HTML format is not. I'll ask the Omega-T developer about this: it's a HTML translation tool. Meanwhile: could you please tell us if you have changed the HTML templates? Otherwise, we'll have to diff the lot everytime Mailman is updated. If you have any better ideas on how to track changes in the HTML templates, please say! :) from Clytie (vi-VN, Vietnamese free-software translation team / nh?m Vi?t h?a ph?n m?m t? do) http://groups-beta.google.com/group/vi-VN From tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp Sat Apr 15 07:41:07 2006 From: tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp (Tokio Kikuchi) Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2006 14:41:07 +0900 Subject: [Mailman-i18n] RELEASED: Mailman 2.1.8 Message-ID: <44408773.6010206@is.kochi-u.ac.jp> On behalf of the development team, I'm pleased to announce the release of GNU Mailman 2.1.8. In this release, we have fixed a cross-site scripting security bug in the previous release (CVE-2006-1712), integrated a new version of email library (email-2.5.7), and added bounce processing supports for number of sites and MUAs. It is highly recommended that all sites using 2.1.7 and before should update to this release. Mailman is free software for managing email mailing lists and e-newsletters. For more information, see: http://mailman.sourceforge.net/ For links to download the Mailman 2.1.8 source tarball, see: http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=103 (Note that uploading to the mirror sites may be delayed.) -- Tokio Kikuchi From barry at python.org Sat Apr 15 20:34:07 2006 From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw) Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2006 14:34:07 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-i18n] New Mailman wiki, Subversion (and other stuff) Message-ID: <1145126047.3167.13.camel@resist.wooz.org> For a while now, I've been trying to implement several project management improvements for Mailman, so that future development can be opened up to more people. As Tokio's and Mark's work has shown, there are very talented programmers out there that can contribute great stuff to Mailman if given a chance. Folks like Brad, JC, and Terri have also contributed greatly in ways other than with code, and I'd like to make it easier for others like them to help out. With 2.1 in maintenance mode, planning for 2.2 gearing up, and my desire to once again jump start 3.0 work, we need all the help we can get. While I'm still working on some things, there have been some good developments that I wanted to let you know about. First, Atlassian has offered free licenses and hosting for their excellent products Jira (issue tracker) and Confluence (wiki). I've used both for several years now and I think they are top-notch applications; Jira is definitely one of the best issue trackers I've used. The wiki is now live, although not a lot of content has been moved there. Please see . You can browse the wiki anonymously, but you must sign up to make any additions or changes. I would eventually like to move things like the Mailman FAQ, list of Mailman users, online documentation (where it doesn't overlap with the latex docs), and all community contributed content from the main web site to the wiki. If you've been looking for a way to contribute to Mailman that doesn't involve coding, here's your chance! While Jira is live, there's nothing yet there. I've done only the minimal configuration for the issue tracker, but have not yet even set up any projects. Still, you can go to to sign up or get a feel for the basics. Right now, I'm working on a conversion script that will take the SourceForge tracker data and massage it into a form that Jira can import. My plan is to move all issue tracking to Jira from SF's trackers. One option to getting there faster is to just start Jira from scratch -- i.e. not import the SF issues. We could say that all 2.2 and 3.0 bugs and patches must go to Jira, but that 2.1 bugs would stay on SF. Then, when 2.1 is retired, we'd retire the SF tracker (that may not be for a long time though, given how pervasive 2.1 is). I'm interested in getting opinions about whether we should migrate all issues to Jira now, split the issues as described above, or take some other approach. Now that Mailman 2.1.8 is out, I've gone ahead and converted the SF CVS repository to Subversion. You can checkout the entire tree via but understand that that will checkout /everything/ (trunk, tags, branches, etc). If you just want Mailman 2.1, you can check out , or if you just want the trunk (2.2) you can check out . You should no longer be able to check anything into the CVS repository. Not everyone who had write permission to CVS has been given Subversion write access. If you still need write access to Subversion and don't have it, please let me know. Now that the conversion is complete, I plan on doing some repo house cleaning, such as moving the website stuff out of the main directory. After that, we can decide to leave the Subversion repository on SourceForge, or move it to Atlassian's hosting. The latter gives us the ability to control write permissions per directory and a hook to Fisheye for repo browsing through the web. Even if we want to move, we don't need to do that right away, as an svn dump/restore should do the trick. Now that these changes have been made, I think it's time to start planning for Mailman 2.2. To that end, I would like most development artifacts to be recorded in the wiki, although discussion should still happen on mailman-developers (there's a 'Development' space and a link for 2.2 under that). I also plan on getting our data imported into Rosetta so we can coordinate i18n there; it's mostly my fault I've dropped the ball on this one. Longer term, as we begin to restart Mailman 3 development, all those decisions will go in the wiki too. I have some other thoughts about Mailman 3 that I'd like to get feedback on, but as this message is getting fairly long anyway, I'll defer that for the time being. So in summary, please check out the wiki. Let me know what you think about importing the SF issues into Jira. And check out the Subversion repository. -Barry -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 309 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-i18n/attachments/20060415/bf933fa7/attachment.pgp From vinhvuong1981 at yahoo.com Mon Apr 17 09:03:24 2006 From: vinhvuong1981 at yahoo.com (ho anh) Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2006 00:03:24 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Mailman-i18n] Vietnamize mailman Message-ID: <20060417070325.50206.qmail@web60311.mail.yahoo.com> I want to translate Mailman into Vietnamese. It means that the language use in Mailman program include of Vietnamese. Please tell me how to Vietnamize Mailman ! Thank a lot --------------------------------- Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1¢/min. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-i18n/attachments/20060417/7096f9d2/attachment.htm From clytie at riverland.net.au Tue Apr 18 10:41:05 2006 From: clytie at riverland.net.au (Clytie Siddall) Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 18:11:05 +0930 Subject: [Mailman-i18n] Vietnamize mailman In-Reply-To: <20060417070325.50206.qmail@web60311.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20060417070325.50206.qmail@web60311.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3BD97EDD-5498-4893-8B66-411E268FE625@riverland.net.au> On 17/04/2006, at 4:33 PM, ho anh wrote: > I want to translate Mailman into Vietnamese. It means that the > language use in Mailman program include of Vietnamese. > Please tell me how to Vietnamize Mailman ! > Thank a lot Mailman has just been translated into Vietnamese. The next release of Mailman should support Vietnamese fully. Please see the updated Mailman list of supported languages (in English): http://wiki.list.org/display/DEV/Languages and the list of current Vietnamese localization projects (in Vietnamese): http://vnoss.net/dokuwiki/projects:l10n Your participation in any of these projects would be very welcome. :) ________________________ [message translated] Ch?o b?n :) Ph?n m?m Mailman m?i ???c d?ch sang ti?ng Vi?t. B?n ph?t h?nh Mailman k? ti?p n?n h? tr? ??y ?? ti?ng Vi?t. B?n xem danh s?ch c?c ng?n ng? ???c h? tr? trong Mailman (b?ng ti?ng Anh ): http://wiki.list.org/display/DEV/Languages c?ng xem danh s?ch c?c d? ?n Vi?t ho? hi?n th?i t?i VNOSS (b?ng ti?ng Vi?t): http://vnoss.net/dokuwiki/projects:l10n M?i b?n tham gia b?t c? d? ?n n?o. S? quan t?m c?a b?n r?t ???c c?m k?ch. Ch?c b?n d?ch vui nh?. :) from Clytie (vi-VN, Vietnamese free-software translation team / nh?m Vi?t h?a ph?n m?m t? do) http://groups-beta.google.com/group/vi-VN -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-i18n/attachments/20060418/a4925003/attachment.htm From clytie at riverland.net.au Thu Apr 20 10:04:48 2006 From: clytie at riverland.net.au (Clytie Siddall) Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2006 17:34:48 +0930 Subject: [Mailman-i18n] Mailman Language Champions Message-ID: Hello everybody :) The Mailman wiki is looking great, and we have our own Internationalization [1] page! Please have a look, and while you're there, register with the wiki and contribute your own ideas and experience. ;) We also have our own HowTo [2], and the Internationalization page from the website has been ported [3] to the wiki. This includes the table of supported languages and Mailman Language Champions. We've made a separate column for additional information, so if you have a website or mailing-list link you'd like included, please add it [4]. Please check the Language Champions table, and make sure the information is up-to-date. If not, please edit it. (If for some reason editing the wiki is awkward for you, you can send the information to me, and I will edit the page accordingly. But the wiki is very easy to use.) This is a good opportunity to make sure all our information is up-to- date. I'd also like to suggest that on the Supported Languages table, we really only need one contact person per language. That language is welcome to include a link to its own page, which would list everyone contributing to that translation, but I don't think we really need more than one name per language on the table. Our Mailman developers will probably keep at least one backup contact per language, but for the public table, I think we only need one name per language, which would make the table much easier to scan for information. Currently, some sections are very crowded, and its not as easy to run your eye through the information and quickly find what you want, as it would be with one name per section. What do others think about this? Would it be OK to go ahead and display one contact name for each language? If so, please edit the table yourself, for your language, or send that information to me. The information sent could be as simple as "Use Pablo for Spanish", if Pablo's details are already in the table, or it could be the language name, contact name and contact email address for someone not yet there. I look forward to seeing your contributions in the wiki. :) from Clytie (vi-VN, Vietnamese free-software translation team / nh?m Vi?t h?a ph?n m?m t? do) http://groups-beta.google.com/group/vi-VN [1] http://wiki.list.org/display/DEV/Internationalization [2] http://wiki.list.org/display/DEV/i18nhowto [3] http://wiki.list.org/display/DEV/Languages [4] Syntax: [name|link] for http, and [name|mailto:email address] for email addresses From lists at suares.an Thu Apr 20 13:56:33 2006 From: lists at suares.an (Ace Suares) Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2006 07:56:33 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-i18n] Dutch Translation Message-ID: <200604200756.34013.lists@suares.an> Hi All, It is my pleasure to announce that the Dutch translation has a new 'Champion': Jan Veuger. The previous Champion, Danny Terweij, has released the translation to Jan Veuger and I want to thank Danny 1000x for all his work. At the moment we have a .po for 2.1.5 and I am now in the process of trying to convert it for use in 2.1.8 and future releases. I could use some help with that, but I'll try to follow the instructions that where recently sent to this list and I'll browse the wiki. I am Ace Suares, and I am doing the technical part of the work. Jan Veuger is the translator, you'll find his emailadress on the Wiki: http://wiki.list.org/display/DEV/Languages All comments about the translation should go to Jan. We are looking forward to work with you and contribute to the software we have been using for many years! Ace -- all my objects are disoriented Suares & Co, Open Source Solutions mail: Sans Souci #11, Willemstad, Curacao (NA) phone: +599 786 23 73 fax: +31 848 707 705 web: http://www.suares.an email: ace at suares.an From ash at contact.bg Thu Apr 20 14:55:39 2006 From: ash at contact.bg (Alexander Shopov) Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2006 15:55:39 +0300 Subject: [Mailman-i18n] Bulgarian translation effort continues Message-ID: <444784CB.6020107@contact.bg> Hi, Just wanted to inform that the Bulgarian translation effort continues. I have translated the templates and I am somewhere in the 15% of the po-file. Kind regards: al_shopov From barry at python.org Fri Apr 21 05:56:57 2006 From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw) Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2006 23:56:57 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-i18n] Mailman Language Champions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1145591817.26108.21.camel@geddy.wooz.org> First of all, thanks to Clytie for helping push the internationalization effort forward and for her wiki contributions (not to mention Vietnamese translations which I'm looking forward to!). Let me just add a few comments. On Thu, 2006-04-20 at 17:34 +0930, Clytie Siddall wrote: > Please have a look, and while you're there, register with the wiki > and contribute your own ideas and experience. ;) Yes, please do! The wiki is for everyone to participate in! > I'd also like to suggest that on the Supported Languages table, we > really only need one contact person per language. That language is > welcome to include a link to its own page, which would list everyone > contributing to that translation, but I don't think we really need > more than one name per language on the table. I think this is a good idea. OTOH, I want to make sure that we give proper attribution to all who contribute to Mailman's i18n. I'm not sure if that should go just in the wiki, or also be added to the ACKNOWLEDGEMENT file in the source (or perhaps add a CONTRIBUTORS-I18N file?). I'm open to your suggestions -- you've worked hard and deserve recognition! Finally, we need to move forward on a better way to structure and coordinate i18n contributions, both from the core developer's side and from the translators side. I've mentioned Rosetta before and we're very nearly ready to make that switch -- if we still want to. I've heard that it may not be the best choice though, and I definitely don't want to ram through a choice here if that's the case. /I'm/ not a translator, so I don't know what would make your lives easier. I /can/ describe some of my requirements, and I've done so on this page: http://wiki.list.org/display/DEV/Managing+Translations Please visit this, fill out some of /your/ requirements, and provide any other thoughts on improving the situation. I would, however, like to make a decision fairly soon, so that we can adopt the new way for Mailman 2.2. Cheers, -Barry -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 309 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-i18n/attachments/20060420/8c3323e5/attachment.pgp From barry at python.org Fri Apr 21 06:11:41 2006 From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw) Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2006 00:11:41 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-i18n] Bulgarian translation effort continues In-Reply-To: <444784CB.6020107@contact.bg> References: <444784CB.6020107@contact.bg> Message-ID: <1145592701.26109.36.camel@geddy.wooz.org> On Thu, 2006-04-20 at 15:55 +0300, Alexander Shopov wrote: > Just wanted to inform that the Bulgarian translation effort continues. > I have translated the templates and I am somewhere in the 15% of the > po-file. Great! Could you please add an entry for Bulgarian in the Languages wiki page? http://wiki.list.org/display/DEV/Languages -Barry -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 309 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-i18n/attachments/20060421/a657eb9c/attachment.pgp From clytie at riverland.net.au Fri Apr 21 10:53:25 2006 From: clytie at riverland.net.au (Clytie Siddall) Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2006 18:23:25 +0930 Subject: [Mailman-i18n] Bulgarian translation effort continues In-Reply-To: <444784CB.6020107@contact.bg> References: <444784CB.6020107@contact.bg> Message-ID: <306B3775-8168-4A2E-AE9E-2FB809EE656C@riverland.net.au> Alexander, welcome! Dobre doshal! On 20/04/2006, at 10:25 PM, Alexander Shopov wrote: > Just wanted to inform that the Bulgarian translation effort continues. > I have translated the templates and I am somewhere in the 15% of the > po-file. Alexander is a very active contributor at Gnome, and I think in other OSS i18n projects. We are lucky to have him here. :) from Clytie (vi-VN, Vietnamese free-software translation team / nh?m Vi?t h?a ph?n m?m t? do) http://groups-beta.google.com/group/vi-VN From tzipik at sapir.ac.il Sun Apr 23 13:36:30 2006 From: tzipik at sapir.ac.il (Tzipi Katz) Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2006 14:36:30 +0300 Subject: [Mailman-i18n] Hebrew translation Message-ID: Hello Das someone know about Hebrew translation that already exist? Tanks Tzipi Katz -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-i18n/attachments/20060423/5ffacc04/attachment.html From clytie at riverland.net.au Mon Apr 24 06:18:25 2006 From: clytie at riverland.net.au (Clytie Siddall) Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 13:48:25 +0930 Subject: [Mailman-i18n] Hebrew translation In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 23/04/2006, at 9:06 PM, Tzipi Katz wrote: > Hello > Das someone know about Hebrew translation that already exist? > > Tanks Tzipi, please see our Supported Languages List: http://wiki.list.org/display/DEV/Languages It doesn't look as though we currently have a Hebrew translation. If you would like to create one, please read our main internationalization (i18n) page: http://wiki.list.org/display/DEV/Internationalization and the Howto to which it links. Once you have read this essential information, please feel free to ask any further questions here. :) Welcome to Mailman! Baruch haba! from Clytie (vi-VN, Vietnamese free-software translation team / nh?m Vi?t h?a ph?n m?m t? do) http://groups-beta.google.com/group/vi-VN -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-i18n/attachments/20060424/7d61b1ac/attachment.html From tzipik at sapir.ac.il Mon Apr 24 07:50:25 2006 From: tzipik at sapir.ac.il (Tzipi Katz) Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 08:50:25 +0300 Subject: [Mailman-i18n] Hebrew translation Message-ID: I understend there isn't one. Do you know if there is a way to work rtl with mailman? Tzipi ----- Original Message ----- From: Tzipi Katz To: mailman-i18n at python.org Sent: Sunday, April 23, 2006 1:36 PM Subject: [Mailman-i18n] Hebrew translation Hello Das someone know about Hebrew translation that already exist? Tanks Tzipi Katz _______________________________________________ Mailman-i18n mailing list Posts: Mailman-i18n at python.org Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-i18n/d.terweij%40nettunin g.net From msapiro at value.net Mon Apr 24 21:08:02 2006 From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 12:08:02 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-i18n] Problems with Vietnamese translation Message-ID: I have just done a 'clean' configure and make install from the currend subversion trunk. I see the following issues: There is a templates/vi directory in the trunk. It is empty, but it really shouldn't be there at all. More importantly, po2templ.py didn't create any templates in templates/vi. This appears to be because in messages/vi/LC_MESSAGES/mailman.po, the magic #: templates/en/filename:1 headers are missing the ' ' between '#:' and 'templates'. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From clytie at riverland.net.au Tue Apr 25 04:06:11 2006 From: clytie at riverland.net.au (Clytie Siddall) Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 11:36:11 +0930 Subject: [Mailman-i18n] RTL (was: Re: Hebrew translation) In-Reply-To: <1145911429.13317.262.camel@resist.wooz.org> References: <4CAAD1E7-FE75-4954-A88F-E104A59978C0@riverland.net.au> <1145911429.13317.262.camel@resist.wooz.org> Message-ID: Cc also to mailman-i18n, since this is an i18n issue which will affect other languages we don't yet have. For example, if someone comes along later and wants to translate into another RTL language, this discussion will be in the archives. However, I would be keen to document RTL capability in the wiki, once we have it. :) On 25/04/2006, at 6:13 AM, Barry Warsaw wrote: >> Barry, does Mailman support languages written from right to left >> (RTL) ? > > To be honest, I don't know! We'll have to try it and then fix > anything > we find broken. It might be best to experiment on the 2.2 trunk > first, > but if the changes are minimal, then we can pull the Hebrew > translation > into the 2.1 branch. What would be the best way to test if it exists, Barry? Do you want Tzipi to complete the whole mailman.po file first, then submit it so it can be tested in the interface? If so, would you have time to build Mailman with that file, and put it up online, so Tzipi can look at the interface and say if his strings are displaying correctly or not? (We could even do this earlier, with a partly-completed file.) We don't need to worry about the templates separately, since in trunk they're integrated into the mailman.po file. (Good news for current Mailman translators. ;) "Trunk" is the section of Mailman that will develop into an upcoming version: Mailman 2.2? This nomenclature is easier to remember if you think of all the energy going into growing the trunk of the tree, so it can produce strong new branches [versions]. ;) ) Tzipi, we will need the advice of at least one very experienced open- source Hebrew translator. Have you been in touch with Eli at the Translation Project yet? Please ask him for advice on any issues we may encounter in testing or adapting Mailman for RTL. This can save a lot of extra work, since I know myself that there are issues specific to each language, which the more experienced translators have already encountered, and about which they can offer very useful advice, and often specific workarounds. Tzipi, once you have read our Internationalization page and howto (the links I've already sent you) you can certainly start working on the mailman.po file (the interface file). We can't test anything until we have some Hebrew text in Mailman! :) *** However, there is one small change to the Howto: you need to download the Mailman 2.2, not the current branch (2.1.8). *** If you have any further questions or problems, after reading our current Internationalization documentation, please ask. :) from Clytie (vi-VN, Vietnamese free-software translation team / nh?m Vi?t h?a ph?n m?m t? do) http://groups-beta.google.com/group/vi-VN -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: PGP.sig Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 186 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-i18n/attachments/20060425/1c6ee9b8/attachment.pgp From barry at python.org Tue Apr 25 04:30:38 2006 From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw) Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 22:30:38 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-i18n] RTL (was: Re: Hebrew translation) In-Reply-To: References: <4CAAD1E7-FE75-4954-A88F-E104A59978C0@riverland.net.au> <1145911429.13317.262.camel@resist.wooz.org> Message-ID: <1145932238.11970.11.camel@geddy.wooz.org> On Tue, 2006-04-25 at 11:36 +0930, Clytie Siddall wrote: > However, I would be keen to document RTL capability in the wiki, once > we have it. :) Definitely! > What would be the best way to test if it exists, Barry? > > Do you want Tzipi to complete the whole mailman.po file first, then > submit it so it can be tested in the interface? I don't think an entire translation would be needed, but you could start with say, all messages in listinfo.py and the listinfo.html template. That would be enough to give us a sense for how well the web u/i handles RTL. You might also try some of the messages in admin.py, then take a look at that. I'd also suggest translating one or two of the command line scripts, then seeing how well those work. Follow that by some of the messages sent to users over email and you basically have coverage for the major touch points for RTL i18n. > If so, would you have time to build Mailman with that file, and put > it up online, so Tzipi can look at the interface and say if his > strings are displaying correctly or not? (We could even do this > earlier, with a partly-completed file.) Right now, I don't have a good place to expose the trunk publicly, but I'd be happy to do some screen captures. > We don't need to worry about the templates separately, since in trunk > they're integrated into the mailman.po file. (Good news for current > Mailman translators. ;) "Trunk" is the section of Mailman that will > develop into an upcoming version: Mailman 2.2? Yep. -Barry -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 309 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-i18n/attachments/20060424/2ca21f90/attachment.pgp From clytie at riverland.net.au Tue Apr 25 05:39:03 2006 From: clytie at riverland.net.au (Clytie Siddall) Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 13:09:03 +0930 Subject: [Mailman-i18n] Problems with Vietnamese translation In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 25/04/2006, at 4:38 AM, Mark Sapiro wrote: > I have just done a 'clean' configure and make install from the currend > subversion trunk. I see the following issues: > > There is a templates/vi directory in the trunk. It is empty, but it > really shouldn't be there at all. Sorry, while implementing my initial translation, I created the translation paths in both the current branch and in trunk, not realizing that the templates/xx directory is no longer necessary in / trunk. I only caught onto that while updating the trunk mailman.po file, and forgot to go back and remove that directory. I'll do that now (before I forget again ;) ). > > More importantly, po2templ.py didn't create any templates in > templates/vi. This appears to be because in > messages/vi/LC_MESSAGES/mailman.po, the magic > > #: templates/en/filename:1 > > headers are missing the ' ' between '#:' and 'templates'. AFAIK, there shouldn't be any templates in trunk. They've been converted into the mailman.po file. This will be much easier to manage, especially when updating translations. from Clytie (vi-VN, Vietnamese free-software translation team / nh?m Vi?t h?a ph?n m?m t? do) http://groups-beta.google.com/group/vi-VN From clytie at riverland.net.au Tue Apr 25 06:02:07 2006 From: clytie at riverland.net.au (Clytie Siddall) Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 13:32:07 +0930 Subject: [Mailman-i18n] RTL (was: Re: Hebrew translation) In-Reply-To: <1145932238.11970.11.camel@geddy.wooz.org> References: <4CAAD1E7-FE75-4954-A88F-E104A59978C0@riverland.net.au> <1145911429.13317.262.camel@resist.wooz.org> <1145932238.11970.11.camel@geddy.wooz.org> Message-ID: <34C1A664-6A66-4364-94A6-F8145A4BEE6D@riverland.net.au> Tzipi, I hope this is all making sense to you. :) Please ask if something is difficult to understand. We're giving you a lot of information all at once, so I will understand completely if you need to take it one piece at a time. Just ask for something to be explained, or for help with any task. :) On 25/04/2006, at 12:00 PM, Barry Warsaw wrote: > I don't think an entire translation would be needed, but you could > start > with say, all messages in listinfo.py and the listinfo.html template. > That would be enough to give us a sense for how well the web u/i > handles > RTL. You might also try some of the messages in admin.py, then take a > look at that. > > I'd also suggest translating one or two of the command line scripts, > then seeing how well those work. Follow that by some of the messages > sent to users over email and you basically have coverage for the major > touch points for RTL i18n. This means, when you have read the Internationalization page and howto, and downloaded the Mailman 2.2 package, and created your directories, and have your own copy of mailman.po ready to translate, that in order to test Mailman's RTL support, you don't need to translate the whole file first. Each string in a .po file has an identification header. For example, the first string in the Mailman 2.2 mailman.po file is: #:Mailman/Archiver/HyperArch.py:122 msgid "size not available" msgstr "" The first line, starting with #. is the identification header of the string. It comes from a Python file (.py) named "HyperArch", and this string is line 122 in that file. What Barry is saying is, that for us to be able to test RTL support in Mailman, you only need to go through the mailman.po file and translate all the strings which have identification headers ending in: listinfo.py listinfo.html (one single, long string) admin.py plus one or two strings which are administrative scripts. They look like this (am I right, Barry? Or are the scripts different strings from this type?) : #:bin/config_list:117 msgid "" "# -*- python -*-\n" "# -*- coding: %(charset)s -*-\n" "## \"%(listname)s\" mailing list configuration settings\n" "## captured on %(when)s\n" msgstr "" and you simply copy the original string, then translate the parts that aren't %(placeholder)s and don't -*- look like this -*-. My translation for that string looks like this: #:bin/config_list:117 msgid "" "# -*- python -*-\n" "# -*- coding: %(charset)s -*-\n" "## \"%(listname)s\" mailing list configuration settings\n" "## captured on %(when)s\n" msgstr "# -*- python -*-\n" "# -*- coding: %(charset)s -*-\n" "## thi?t l?p c?u h?nh c?a h?p th? chung ? %(listname)s ?\n" "## b?t v?o %(when)s\n" You must keep all the unusual characters in the original string, because they have their own jobs to do ... just like we do. ;) from Clytie (vi-VN, Vietnamese free-software translation team / nh?m Vi?t h?a ph?n m?m t? do) http://groups-beta.google.com/group/vi-VN -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: PGP.sig Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 186 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-i18n/attachments/20060425/4c95e0bd/attachment.pgp From msapiro at value.net Tue Apr 25 07:28:26 2006 From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 22:28:26 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-i18n] Problems with Vietnamese translation In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Clytie Siddall wrote: > >On 25/04/2006, at 4:38 AM, Mark Sapiro wrote: >> >> More importantly, po2templ.py didn't create any templates in >> templates/vi. This appears to be because in >> messages/vi/LC_MESSAGES/mailman.po, the magic >> >> #: templates/en/filename:1 >> >> headers are missing the ' ' between '#:' and 'templates'. > >AFAIK, there shouldn't be any templates in trunk. They've been =20 >converted into the mailman.po file. This will be much easier to =20 >manage, especially when updating translations. Yes, there shouldn't be any templates in the subversion trunk, but that isn't what I was saying. I'm saying that 'make install' did not extract the templates from the mailman.po for the templates/vi/ directory in the insatlled system. The reason for this is the magic templates headers in messages/vi/LC_MESSAGES/mailman.po look like #:templates/en/admindbdetails.html:1 #:templates/en/admindbpreamble.html:1 #:templates/en/admindbsummary.html:1 #:templates/en/adminsubscribeack.txt:1 #:templates/en/adminunsubscribeack.txt:1 etc. and they should look like #: templates/en/admindbdetails.html:1 #: templates/en/admindbpreamble.html:1 #: templates/en/admindbsummary.html:1 #: templates/en/adminsubscribeack.txt:1 #: templates/en/adminunsubscribeack.txt:1 etc. because the po2templ.py script that extracts them from the mailman.po file is looking specifically for if line.startswith('#: templates'): -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From msapiro at value.net Tue Apr 25 23:23:15 2006 From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 14:23:15 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-i18n] Another Vietnamese translation issue Message-ID: There is no entry for Vietnamese in the add_languages() statements in Defaults.py.in in the Release_2_1-maint branch or in the LANGUAGE_DICT entries in Defaults.py.in in the trunk. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From clytie at riverland.net.au Wed Apr 26 14:43:48 2006 From: clytie at riverland.net.au (Clytie Siddall) Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 22:13:48 +0930 Subject: [Mailman-i18n] RTL (was: Re: Hebrew translation) In-Reply-To: <010001c66811$b77d9030$3605a8c0@smile> References: <010001c66811$b77d9030$3605a8c0@smile> Message-ID: <6BD9648A-D7EF-49BD-A521-F9CFD6D6FECB@riverland.net.au> Hello Simcha, thankyou for joining the discussion. :) On 25/04/2006, at 12:11 PM, Rabbi Simcha Backman wrote: > > "Tzipy" is a female - I saw she was referred to as a "his". Tzipy > is a > nickname for the Biblical name "Ziporah". It's a lovely name. I should know better, since I'm female myself, but with the female participation in open-source at an all-time high of 1.5%, one tends to assume "male". Sorry, Tzipi ! :) > > Anyway...now that we cleared that up - how can I help? Is there > any segment > that you would like me to help out with? My offer to assist with > the Hebrew > translation still stands as I would like to implement mailman for > Hebrew as > well. Simcha, you speak as though you have mentioned translating Mailman into Hebrew before: I haven't been on the Mailman list long, so I'm sorry if I have missed your posts. Tzipi has just arrived, and offered to translate Mailman into Hebrew. She then asked (of course!) if we had RTL support, and that's what we've been discussing. I'm concerned that all the new information she's expected to take in, as a first-time Mailman translator and (I think) a first-time translator in other ways, plus the RTL testing, may have intimidated her. I hope not. If you could support her in this translation, work together, that would be great. :)) I will also send Tzipi an invitation to a small i18n-mentor group for women translators, where we are trying to encourage more participation. She may find that helpful. (Tzipi, are you still there? :) ) from Clytie (vi-VN, Vietnamese free-software translation team / nh?m Vi?t h?a ph?n m?m t? do) http://groups-beta.google.com/group/vi-VN From clytie at riverland.net.au Wed Apr 26 14:54:14 2006 From: clytie at riverland.net.au (Clytie Siddall) Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 22:24:14 +0930 Subject: [Mailman-i18n] Problems with Vietnamese translation In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <502EEE92-74E4-4482-B32C-262D5B229D90@riverland.net.au> Thanks for following this up, Mark. :) On 25/04/2006, at 2:58 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote: >> >> AFAIK, there shouldn't be any templates in trunk. They've been =20 >> converted into the mailman.po file. This will be much easier to =20 >> manage, especially when updating translations. > > Yes, there shouldn't be any templates in the subversion trunk, but > that > isn't what I was saying. I'm saying that 'make install' did not > extract the templates from the mailman.po for the templates/vi/ > directory in the insatlled system. The reason for this is the magic > templates headers in messages/vi/LC_MESSAGES/mailman.po look like > > #:templates/en/admindbdetails.html:1 > #:templates/en/admindbpreamble.html:1 > #:templates/en/admindbsummary.html:1 > #:templates/en/adminsubscribeack.txt:1 > #:templates/en/adminunsubscribeack.txt:1 > etc. > > and they should look like > > #: templates/en/admindbdetails.html:1 > #: templates/en/admindbpreamble.html:1 > #: templates/en/admindbsummary.html:1 > #: templates/en/adminsubscribeack.txt:1 > #: templates/en/adminunsubscribeack.txt:1 > etc. > > because the po2templ.py script that extracts them from the mailman.po > file is looking specifically for > > if line.startswith('#: templates'): Weird. I used the latest .pot for Mailman, so the headers _should_ be correct. I can't see how msgmerge can have changed that: it only matches translations to original text. If the templates need to be there in the installed system, I'll have to fix this. But I'd still like to know how it happened. :( Your next mail: > There is no entry for Vietnamese in the add_languages() statements in > Defaults.py.in in the Release_2_1-maint branch or in the LANGUAGE_DICT > entries in Defaults.py.in in the trunk. Who should add such entries? Should I? If so, please tell me what I should do. Is this analagous with adding a language code to the ALL_LINGUAS line in configure.in or configure.ac ? from Clytie (vi-VN, Vietnamese free-software translation team / nh?m Vi?t h?a ph?n m?m t? do) http://groups-beta.google.com/group/vi-VN From msapiro at value.net Wed Apr 26 17:16:21 2006 From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 08:16:21 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-i18n] Problems with Vietnamese translation In-Reply-To: <502EEE92-74E4-4482-B32C-262D5B229D90@riverland.net.au> Message-ID: Clytie Siddall wrote: > >Weird. I used the latest .pot for Mailman, so the headers _should_ be >correct. I can't see how msgmerge can have changed that: it only >matches translations to original text. If the templates need to be >there in the installed system, I'll have to fix this. But I'd >still like to know how it happened. :( I don't know. The mailman.pot does have the spaces between '#:' and the path. msgmerge on my Cygwin test installation actually will put the space in between '#:' and the path even if it isn't there in the original mailman.po file, but if there are different msmerges out there that exhibit different behavior, perhaps bin/po2templ.py needs to be updated to account for differing formats. In my case, I think the problem could be addressed by reordering messages/Makefile.in to run msgmerge on the mailman.po before po2templ.py and installing the templates, but if there are different msgmerge behaviors, that wouldn't work for everyone. We'd need to update po2templ.py. It shouldn't be difficult to work up a patch to po2templ.py (using re) that would make it more robust in this area. I'm willing to do that, but I may not have time to get to it for a few days. >Your next mail: > >> There is no entry for Vietnamese in the add_languages() statements in >> Defaults.py.in in the Release_2_1-maint branch or in the LANGUAGE_DICT >> entries in Defaults.py.in in the trunk. > >Who should add such entries? Should I? If so, please tell me what I >should do. The comments in Defaults.py.in say in part # Vgg: Language descriptions and charsets dictionary, any new supported # language must have a corresponding entry here. I think this means it's up to the translator to put it there, but I'm not really familiar with Mailman i18n procedures. If you look at Defaults.py.in in the trunk and in the Release_2_1-maint branch (they're different in this respect) at the very end of the file, it should be obvious what to do. >Is this analagous with adding a language code to the ALL_LINGUAS line >in configure.in or configure.ac ? No, not really. configure.in contains commands to build ALL_LINGUAS by listing the messages directory and selecting all subdirectory names of form '..' and '.._..'. The entries in Defaults.py are the same language codes, but they contain the 'name' of the language (e.g., _(Vietnamese)), and the name of the character set for the language. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From msapiro at value.net Thu Apr 27 05:07:31 2006 From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 20:07:31 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-i18n] [Mailman-Developers] Problems with Vietnamese translation In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Mark Sapiro wrote: > >It shouldn't be difficult to work up a patch to po2templ.py (using re) >that would make it more robust in this area. I'm willing to do that, >but I may not have time to get to it for a few days. Here's a patch --- MM-Trunk/mailman/bin/po2templ.py 2006-04-18 18:06:32.484375000 -0700 +++ test-mailman-trunk/bin/po2templ.py 2006-04-26 19:42:24.843750000 -0700 @@ -27,8 +27,11 @@ Usage: po2templ.py languages """ +import re import sys +cre = re.compile('^#:[ ]*templates/en/(?P.*):1') + ? def do_lang(lang): @@ -38,10 +41,11 @@ fp = file('messages/%s/LC_MESSAGES/mailman.po' % lang) try: for line in fp: - if line.startswith('#: templates'): + m = re.search(cre, line) + if m: in_template = True in_msg = False - filename = line[16:-3] + filename = m.group('filename') outfilename = 'templates/%s/%s' % (lang, filename) continue if in_template and line.startswith('#,'): I tested this and it seems to work fine whether or not mailman.po has a space after the '#:'. Tokio, Do you think we should go ahead and commit this on the trunk? -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From clytie at riverland.net.au Thu Apr 27 09:42:44 2006 From: clytie at riverland.net.au (Clytie Siddall) Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 17:12:44 +0930 Subject: [Mailman-i18n] Problems with Vietnamese translation In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 27/04/2006, at 12:46 AM, Mark Sapiro wrote: > if there are different msmerges out > there that exhibit different behavior, perhaps bin/po2templ.py needs > to be updated to account for differing formats. It's not msgmerge. I was on the point of writing to Bruno, then I remembered that my translation editor had thrown one of its rare wobblies on that day, while I was editing Mailman, and had produced an output file with some abnormalities (missing quotation marks). I ran msgmerge again over the current POT, and the spaces are there in the headers in the output file. So it looks like that was a freak error, certainly something that hasn't happened before. It might be easier all around if I just merge the translated strings into the current POT and commit that over the current translation. What do you think? Sorry it took me a while to work this one out. I haven't had anything like that happen before. :S from Clytie (vi-VN, Vietnamese free-software translation team / nh?m Vi?t h?a ph?n m?m t? do) http://groups-beta.google.com/group/vi-VN From msapiro at value.net Thu Apr 27 19:35:30 2006 From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 10:35:30 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-i18n] Problems with Vietnamese translation In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Clytie Siddall wrote: > >On 27/04/2006, at 12:46 AM, Mark Sapiro wrote: > >> if there are different msmerges out >> there that exhibit different behavior, perhaps bin/po2templ.py needs >> to be updated to account for differing formats. > >It's not msgmerge. I was on the point of writing to Bruno, then I >remembered that my translation editor had thrown one of its rare >wobblies on that day, while I was editing Mailman, and had produced >an output file with some abnormalities (missing quotation marks). > >I ran msgmerge again over the current POT, and the spaces are there >in the headers in the output file. > >So it looks like that was a freak error, certainly something that >hasn't happened before. It might be easier all around if I just merge >the translated strings into the current POT and commit that over the >current translation. > >What do you think? Yes, I definitely think it would be good to update the translation (mailman.po) on the trunk. I still like the idea of the patch I worked up for po2templ.py as it makes this more robust against possible changes in the .po headers, but I'll leave it up to Tokio to decide on that as it's his code. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From clytie at riverland.net.au Fri Apr 28 07:36:14 2006 From: clytie at riverland.net.au (Clytie Siddall) Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 15:06:14 +0930 Subject: [Mailman-i18n] Problems with Vietnamese translation In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <92F99792-96ED-4C5E-AF44-3A3D7825CBF2@riverland.net.au> On 28/04/2006, at 3:05 AM, Mark Sapiro wrote: > Yes, I definitely think it would be good to update the translation > (mailman.po) on the trunk. Done. :) All the spaces (AFAI can see) are in the correct places. If I see any spaces lolling around on my desktop, I will smack them and send them back to the file. from Clytie (vi-VN, Vietnamese free-software translation team / nh?m Vi?t h?a ph?n m?m t? do) http://groups-beta.google.com/group/vi-VN From barry at python.org Fri Apr 28 07:59:59 2006 From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw) Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 01:59:59 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-i18n] Problems with Vietnamese translation In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1146203999.10790.82.camel@resist.wooz.org> On Wed, 2006-04-26 at 08:16 -0700, Mark Sapiro wrote: > >Your next mail: > > > >> There is no entry for Vietnamese in the add_languages() statements in > >> Defaults.py.in in the Release_2_1-maint branch or in the LANGUAGE_DICT > >> entries in Defaults.py.in in the trunk. > > > >Who should add such entries? Should I? If so, please tell me what I > >should do. > > The comments in Defaults.py.in say in part > > # Vgg: Language descriptions and charsets dictionary, any new supported > # language must have a corresponding entry here. > > I think this means it's up to the translator to put it there, but I'm > not really familiar with Mailman i18n procedures. Just for the record, it's fine for the translator to add an entry here for their language. Often though, new languages are donated by people who don't have commit privileges, so it should technically be done by whoever does the initial commit of the language. -Barry -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 309 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-i18n/attachments/20060428/59d434c2/attachment.pgp From barry at python.org Fri Apr 28 08:05:35 2006 From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw) Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 02:05:35 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-i18n] Problems with Vietnamese translation In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1146204335.10788.88.camel@resist.wooz.org> On Thu, 2006-04-27 at 10:35 -0700, Mark Sapiro wrote: > Yes, I definitely think it would be good to update the translation > (mailman.po) on the trunk. Just a warning that source strings will probably change quite a bit as I convert our bin and cron scripts from getopt to optparse. I'm trying (as always) to be mindful of not gratuitously changing translatable text, but in this case it can't be avoided. Eventually, I'd also like to change all translatable text from using %-substitutions to using $-substitutions, but I think in general we can automate that conversion (IOW, not totally invalidate all existing translations just because of that change). Anybody looking for a fun little project to work on? :) > I still like the idea of the patch I worked up for po2templ.py as it > makes this more robust against possible changes in the .po headers, > but I'll leave it up to Tokio to decide on that as it's his code. I agree that it's probably the right thing to commit, but yes, let's have Tokio weigh in first. -Barry -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 309 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-i18n/attachments/20060428/8a4e4cdc/attachment.pgp From clytie at riverland.net.au Sat Apr 29 06:36:20 2006 From: clytie at riverland.net.au (Clytie Siddall) Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2006 14:06:20 +0930 Subject: [Mailman-i18n] Problems with Vietnamese translation In-Reply-To: <1146204335.10788.88.camel@resist.wooz.org> References: <1146204335.10788.88.camel@resist.wooz.org> Message-ID: <26BC7D13-2250-49CE-8F26-CC981AE9560F@riverland.net.au> On 28/04/2006, at 3:35 PM, Barry Warsaw wrote: > Just a warning that source strings will probably change quite a bit > as I > convert our bin and cron scripts from getopt to optparse. I'm trying > (as always) to be mindful of not gratuitously changing translatable > text, but in this case it can't be avoided. And in any case, translators working on the trunk branch must be aware that this _is_ the development branch and thus will continue to change. :) The first priority is to complete our translations of the current (stable) Mailman version (2.1.8 at this stage). Having done that, the essential job of getting the translations out to users, we take a deep breath and relax our aching brains ;). Then, to get a good start on the next version, we can merge our translations across to the trunk branch, and update the empty and fuzzy strings in that file. However, it's not effective use of our time to try and keep the trunk branch at 100% while it is still in development. When we are translating any branch in active development, it's more effective to check its status once a week, for example, and update it then. This keeps our files current, without having to make constant changes. Before the branch is released, it will go into string freeze for at least a couple of weeks, which gives us the chance to finalize our translations. There shouldn't be any changes to strings during this message freeze. So don't panic too much about trying to keep trunk at 100%. It's not the software currently being used, it's still being changed, and you''ll get reasonable notice to update it before release. :) from Clytie (vi-VN, Vietnamese free-software translation team / nh?m Vi?t h?a ph?n m?m t? do) http://groups-beta.google.com/group/vi-VN From tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp Sun Apr 30 09:50:00 2006 From: tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp (Tokio Kikuchi) Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2006 16:50:00 +0900 Subject: [Mailman-i18n] [Mailman-Developers] Problems with Vietnamese translation In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <44546C28.7020700@is.kochi-u.ac.jp> Hi Mark, > > I tested this and it seems to work fine whether or not mailman.po has a > space after the '#:'. > > Tokio, > > Do you think we should go ahead and commit this on the trunk? > Thanks for this patch. I've committed this on the trunk slightly differently, though. Cheers, -- Tokio Kikuchi, tkikuchi@ is.kochi-u.ac.jp http://weather.is.kochi-u.ac.jp/ From bruno at clisp.org Mon Apr 3 20:10:47 2006 From: bruno at clisp.org (Bruno Haible) Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2006 18:10:47 -0000 Subject: [Mailman-i18n] ways to prioritize what to translate? Message-ID: <200604031929.24064.bruno@clisp.org> Hello, On the translation-i18n mailing list some translators said that they were not willing to translate the entire mailman POT file because it was so big, and many messages appeared to be in a context never seen by a mailing list subscriber. Would it be possible for the mailman project to prioritize the messages according to the target user role? I was told that mailman has three types of users: admins, editors, subscribers. They see different output from mailman. I would estimate that the localization of the parts that reaches subscribers is higher priority than the rest. (Because when you have 5 people or more starting a mailing list, you can expect to find one of them who understands English; this person then can become the list administrator.) For the translators, it is acceptable to have 3 POT files instead of a single POT file; it is also acceptable to keep everything in a single POT file which has extracted tags (#. syntax) that indicate the target user (e.g. "#. to subscribers") or prioritization (e.g. "#. +", "#. ++", "#. +++"). If distinct user roles are handled by distinct source files, you can simply pass different file lists in 3 different xgettext invocations. If not, you can use different translation functions instead of _(); xgettext 0.15 will have an option to create specific extracted tags in #. syntax depending on the translation function that is used. Bruno From danny at terweij.nl Sun Apr 23 17:17:19 2006 From: danny at terweij.nl (Danny Terweij) Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2006 15:17:19 -0000 Subject: [Mailman-i18n] Hebrew translation References: Message-ID: <003e01c666e9$025250c0$1e00a8c0@prvd321> Hi, Look at http://wiki.list.org/ (http://wiki.list.org/display/DEV/Languages) Danny. ----- Original Message ----- From: Tzipi Katz To: mailman-i18n at python.org Sent: Sunday, April 23, 2006 1:36 PM Subject: [Mailman-i18n] Hebrew translation Hello Das someone know about Hebrew translation that already exist? Tanks Tzipi Katz _______________________________________________ Mailman-i18n mailing list Posts: Mailman-i18n at python.org Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-i18n/d.terweij%40nettuning.net