From amanpreetalam at yahoo.com Tue Nov 1 05:42:44 2005 From: amanpreetalam at yahoo.com (AP Singh Alam) Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 20:42:44 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Mailman-i18n] Starting New Language Punjabi (pa) Message-ID: <20051101044244.9482.qmail@web33206.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hi I want to start Translation for New Language Punjabi (pa), which is not yet available in software. we are working at http://www.satluj.com I m following http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/mailman/mailman/README-I18N.en?rev=2.12.2.4&view=markup page and using downloaded tarball file to translation. If anything need to correct, please update me regards AP Singh Alam Punjabi Team __________________________________ Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click. http://farechase.yahoo.com From barry at python.org Mon Nov 21 18:09:03 2005 From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 12:09:03 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-i18n] Ubuntu/Launchpad Rosetta for i18n translations? Message-ID: <1132592943.9977.68.camel@geddy.wooz.org> Hello translators, In what will hopefully be just the first of several improvements to the Mailman development process, I would like to get some feedback from the i18n developers on moving translation coordination to Rosetta. Rosetta is part of Ubuntu's Launchpad and while I haven't played around with it too much (problems with my ancient gpg keys I suspect ;) it looks a lot like what a few of us dreamed of writing several years ago (but of course, never did). Rosetta is essentially a web based interface for translating open source applications. The site has the potential to be a much better collaboration platform for translations than the mailing list or my inbox. It also looks like it would open us to collaborating with a much larger i18n community. The ultimate goal of course is to continually improve the quality and breadth of Mailman's translation. The current set of champions have done a great job getting Mailman i18n to where it is now, but I think that something like Rosetta can make all our lives easier. Specifically, I think Rosetta could help eliminate me as a bottleneck, or require translators to deal with all the nastiness of committing updates to the CVS trees themselves. I would like to get feedback from the current i18n champions on this plan. If you have experience with Rosetta, both positive and negative, as a translator or developer, I would be very interested in hearing your opinion. For more information see: http://launchpad.com/rosetta Cheers, -Barry -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 307 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-i18n/attachments/20051121/0fe056ed/attachment.pgp From mardy78 at yahoo.it Mon Nov 21 18:36:49 2005 From: mardy78 at yahoo.it (Alberto Mardegan) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 18:36:49 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-i18n] Ubuntu/Launchpad Rosetta for i18n translations? In-Reply-To: <1132592943.9977.68.camel@geddy.wooz.org> References: <1132592943.9977.68.camel@geddy.wooz.org> Message-ID: <20051121173649.GA7434@pupilla> Hi Barry, Le die Mon, Nov 21, 2005 at 12:09:03PM -0500, Barry Warsaw ha scribite: [...] > I would like to get feedback from the current i18n champions on this > plan. If you have experience with Rosetta, both positive and negative, > as a translator or developer, I would be very interested in hearing your > opinion. I tried it shortly, and it looks a valuable tool to me. It even includes interlingua. :-) > For more information see: > > http://launchpad.com/rosetta The correct address is http://launchpad.net/rosetta -- Saluti, Mardy http://interlingua.altervista.org ___________________________________ Yahoo! Mail: gratis 1GB per i messaggi e allegati da 10MB http://mail.yahoo.it From asmodai at in-nomine.org Mon Nov 21 18:28:14 2005 From: asmodai at in-nomine.org (Jeroen Ruigrok/asmodai) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 18:28:14 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-i18n] [Mailman-Developers] Ubuntu/Launchpad Rosetta for i18n translations? In-Reply-To: <1132592943.9977.68.camel@geddy.wooz.org> References: <1132592943.9977.68.camel@geddy.wooz.org> Message-ID: <20051121172814.GQ51142@nexus.ninth-circle.org> -On [20051121 18:09], Barry Warsaw (barry at python.org) wrote: >If you have experience with Rosetta, both positive and negative, >as a translator or developer, I would be very interested in hearing your >opinion. Rosetta works quite well. I've done some translations for several projects this way. Make sure to log any issues you encounter in the bug tracker on launchpad, the async guys are pretty darn fast in handling and fixing these. Overal: very positive. -- Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven / asmodai Free Tibet! http://www.savetibet.org/ | http://www.andf.info/ http://www.tendra.org/ | http://www.in-nomine.org/ | catcher at in-nomine.org Friends are angels who lift us to our feet when our wings have trouble remembering how to fly... From webmaster at dizain.ro Mon Nov 21 18:41:12 2005 From: webmaster at dizain.ro (Stefaniu Criste) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 19:41:12 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-i18n] Ubuntu/Launchpad Rosetta for i18n translations? In-Reply-To: <1132592943.9977.68.camel@geddy.wooz.org> References: <1132592943.9977.68.camel@geddy.wooz.org> Message-ID: <200511211941.12921.webmaster@dizain.ro> On Monday 21 November 2005 19:09, Barry Warsaw wrote: Hello, couldn't access the link you've specified (http://launchpad.com/rosetta) Instead (I think is the same), i've visited: https://launchpad.net/products/rosetta At a first glance, it looks very promising. Stefaniu Criste Romania > Hello translators, > > In what will hopefully be just the first of several improvements to the > Mailman development process, I would like to get some feedback from the > i18n developers on moving translation coordination to Rosetta. > > Rosetta is part of Ubuntu's Launchpad and while I haven't played around > with it too much (problems with my ancient gpg keys I suspect ;) it > looks a lot like what a few of us dreamed of writing several years ago > (but of course, never did). Rosetta is essentially a web based > interface for translating open source applications. The site has the > potential to be a much better collaboration platform for translations > than the mailing list or my inbox. It also looks like it would open us > to collaborating with a much larger i18n community. > > The ultimate goal of course is to continually improve the quality and > breadth of Mailman's translation. The current set of champions have > done a great job getting Mailman i18n to where it is now, but I think > that something like Rosetta can make all our lives easier. > Specifically, I think Rosetta could help eliminate me as a bottleneck, > or require translators to deal with all the nastiness of committing > updates to the CVS trees themselves. > > I would like to get feedback from the current i18n champions on this > plan. If you have experience with Rosetta, both positive and negative, > as a translator or developer, I would be very interested in hearing your > opinion. > > For more information see: > > http://launchpad.com/rosetta > > Cheers, > -Barry > > From martin at v.loewis.de Mon Nov 21 22:34:54 2005 From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=) Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 22:34:54 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-i18n] Ubuntu/Launchpad Rosetta for i18n translations? In-Reply-To: <1132592943.9977.68.camel@geddy.wooz.org> References: <1132592943.9977.68.camel@geddy.wooz.org> Message-ID: <43823D7E.9040904@v.loewis.de> Barry Warsaw wrote: > In what will hopefully be just the first of several improvements to the > Mailman development process, I would like to get some feedback from the > i18n developers on moving translation coordination to Rosetta. The thing that worries me (as a TP coordinator) about Rosetta and open translation processes is the legal copyright issues. In principle, each translator has the copyright to the translation, so the translator would need to do license the translations somehow. I'm actually unsure what the procedures at Rosetta are, so this might be FUD - but it should be clarified before making such a change. I don't know how much mailman has to implement FSF policies (it still is part of the GNU project, right?): the FSF would require assignments from each contributor, or, in the specific case of translators, a signed copyright disclaimer. Regards, Martin From barry at python.org Tue Nov 22 20:56:18 2005 From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw) Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 14:56:18 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-i18n] Ubuntu/Launchpad Rosetta for i18n translations? In-Reply-To: <20051121173649.GA7434@pupilla> References: <1132592943.9977.68.camel@geddy.wooz.org> <20051121173649.GA7434@pupilla> Message-ID: <1132689378.15454.45.camel@geddy.wooz.org> On Mon, 2005-11-21 at 18:36 +0100, Alberto Mardegan wrote: > The correct address is http://launchpad.net/rosetta Thanks! -Barry -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 307 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-i18n/attachments/20051122/8b780796/attachment.pgp From barry at python.org Tue Nov 22 20:58:47 2005 From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw) Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 14:58:47 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-i18n] Ubuntu/Launchpad Rosetta for i18n translations? In-Reply-To: <43823D7E.9040904@v.loewis.de> References: <1132592943.9977.68.camel@geddy.wooz.org> <43823D7E.9040904@v.loewis.de> Message-ID: <1132689527.15461.50.camel@geddy.wooz.org> On Mon, 2005-11-21 at 22:34 +0100, "Martin v. L?wis" wrote: > The thing that worries me (as a TP coordinator) about Rosetta and open > translation processes is the legal copyright issues. In principle, each > translator has the copyright to the translation, so the translator would > need to do license the translations somehow. I'm actually unsure what > the procedures at Rosetta are, so this might be FUD - but it should be > clarified before making such a change. Excellent point Martin, thanks. I'll ask the Rosetta folks if/how they handle these questions. > I don't know how much mailman has to implement FSF policies (it still > is part of the GNU project, right?): the FSF would require assignments > from each contributor, or, in the specific case of translators, a > signed copyright disclaimer. I think at the least, a disclaimer is necessary, and I'm not sure how this would be handled if translations were coordinated through Rosetta. I'll follow up here with whatever I learn. Thanks, -Barry -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 307 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-i18n/attachments/20051122/4cef985a/attachment.pgp From ash at contact.bg Wed Nov 23 10:24:36 2005 From: ash at contact.bg (Alexander Shopov) Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 11:24:36 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-i18n] Ubuntu/Launchpad Rosetta for i18n translations? In-Reply-To: <1132592943.9977.68.camel@geddy.wooz.org> References: <1132592943.9977.68.camel@geddy.wooz.org> Message-ID: <43843554.2050606@contact.bg> > In what will hopefully be just the first of several improvements to the > Mailman development process, I would like to get some feedback from the > i18n developers on moving translation coordination to Rosetta. I would advise against that. There has been some dual effort conflict between Rosetta and Gnome. As I have already translated the text and html tempates in Bulgarian and I am moving on to the po-file, I would really hate to have a conflict with some other unknown person who has a different style. Best regards: al_shopov From barry at python.org Wed Nov 23 23:39:50 2005 From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw) Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 17:39:50 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-i18n] Ubuntu/Launchpad Rosetta for i18n translations? In-Reply-To: <43843554.2050606@contact.bg> References: <1132592943.9977.68.camel@geddy.wooz.org> <43843554.2050606@contact.bg> Message-ID: <1132785590.15454.136.camel@geddy.wooz.org> On Wed, 2005-11-23 at 11:24 +0200, Alexander Shopov wrote: > I would advise against that. There has been some dual effort conflict > between Rosetta and Gnome. Can you elaborate? For example, what does Gnome have that's equivalent to Rosetta? What conflict or overlap is there between the two community's efforts? > As I have already translated the text and html tempates in Bulgarian and > I am moving on to the po-file, I would really hate to have a conflict > with some other unknown person who has a different style. IIUC, one thing we'd be able to do is upload all of our existing translations, which would give us a great head start in all current languages. Hopefully, translation teams can all work together and agree on common style or approaches to their language translations. I know that other languages have more than one person working on them, and there have been very few disagreements (at least that have percolated up to me) in all the years that Mailman has been i18n. -Barry -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 307 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-i18n/attachments/20051123/dcda1d54/attachment.pgp From barry at python.org Wed Nov 23 23:55:13 2005 From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw) Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 17:55:13 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-i18n] A better way of doing templates? Message-ID: <1132786513.20488.153.camel@geddy.wooz.org> Jordi Mallach brings up a good point on the rosetta-users mailing list, in response to my queries there. Rosetta doesn't really work with non-po files, so the fact that we have templates that need translating will cause us some grief. Well, even more grief than it has over the years. ;) Does anybody have any good ideas for handling this in the Mailman 2 tree? For MM3, it's a top priority that any templating system we use must support po-ification for i18n. For Mailman 2.2 it's more difficult because I don't think we should adopt an entirely new template system. It's even worse for 2.1 because we're not accepting new features, although if we came up with something simple and minimally disruptive, I'd consider it for the benefit of improving the translation process. Ideas are welcome! -Barry -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 307 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-i18n/attachments/20051123/f4589125/attachment.pgp From tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp Thu Nov 24 02:44:19 2005 From: tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp (Tokio Kikuchi) Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2005 10:44:19 +0900 Subject: [Mailman-i18n] [Mailman-Developers] A better way of doing templates? In-Reply-To: <1132786513.20488.153.camel@geddy.wooz.org> References: <1132786513.20488.153.camel@geddy.wooz.org> Message-ID: <43851AF3.7060303@is.kochi-u.ac.jp> Hi, Barry Warsaw wrote: > Jordi Mallach brings up a good point on the rosetta-users mailing list, > in response to my queries there. > > Rosetta doesn't really work with non-po files, so the fact that we have > templates that need translating will cause us some grief. Well, even > more grief than it has over the years. ;) > > Does anybody have any good ideas for handling this in the Mailman 2 > tree? How about adding current templates into pot/po and pickup and generate language templates during "make install." I don't know if it could be done at all but I will look at it this weekend. As regards the whole translation process, I've already submitted a patch to select languages when configuring. This should help separating the translations from the main developement code base. http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1298355&group_id=103&atid=300103 -- Tokio Kikuchi, tkikuchi@ is.kochi-u.ac.jp http://weather.is.kochi-u.ac.jp/