From martin at v.loewis.de  Mon Mar  3 00:54:11 2003
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-15?q?L=F6wis?=)
Date: Sun Mar  2 18:54:36 2003
Subject: [Mailman-i18n] Chinese in mailman 2.1-5
In-Reply-To: <3E44D0CB.20906@is.kochi-u.ac.jp>
References: <20030207075308.GA16750@opensource.nchc.gov.tw>
	<3E44D0CB.20906@is.kochi-u.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <m34r6l495o.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Tokio Kikuchi <tkikuchi@is.kochi-u.ac.jp> writes:

> I think also that gb and big5 is not standard language name.
> (zh_CN and zh_TW ?) 

I think Mailman is somewhat inconsistent with the rest of the world in
naming the Chinese writing systems; I would also recommend to use
zh_CN and zh_TW.

Regards,
Martin

From sawickib at iem.pw.edu.pl  Wed Mar  5 13:25:11 2003
From: sawickib at iem.pw.edu.pl (Bartosz Sawicki)
Date: Wed Mar  5 07:25:17 2003
Subject: [Mailman-i18n] small bug in i18n (checkdbs)
Message-ID: <20030305132511.A34491@volt.iem.pw.edu.pl>

Hi all,
I'm working over polish translation (about 70% done). 
Today i've found phrase that could not be translated - maybe there are more
that this one, but actually i know only one:

Action: dailly checkdbs run
Message: reason for pending posts eg. 
        "Post by non-member to a members-only list"

In code: bin/checkdbs, line 114, there is:

       when, sender, subject, reason, text, msgdata = mlist.GetRecord(id)
       date = time.ctime(when)
       pending.append(_("""\  
From: %(sender)s on %(date)s   
Subject: %(subject)s
Cause: %(reason)s"""))

As we see none of "when, sender, subject, reason, text, msgdata" are beeing
translated. I agree, that translation of sender or subject is unwated, but
variables 'date' and 'reason' should be translated.

Does any other noticed this bug? Or maybe i'm wrong ?

Greatings from Poland
BArtek

ps. My Mailman is 2.1.1

From pioppo at ferrara.linux.it  Wed Mar  5 20:30:18 2003
From: pioppo at ferrara.linux.it (Simone Piunno)
Date: Wed Mar  5 14:31:53 2003
Subject: [Mailman-i18n] Re: Translating Mailman on Serbian
In-Reply-To: <3E65E745.40302@artplus.co.yu>
References: <3E65E745.40302@artplus.co.yu>
Message-ID: <20030305193018.GA4176@ferrara.linux.it>

On Wed, Mar 05, 2003 at 01:02:13PM +0100, Nikola Djurovic wrote:

> We are thinking to use mailman and to develop it for Serbian Language.
> Would you be so kind and post some of your experience and a guidelines
> how we can start doing it, what tehnical knowledge-base we need to have,
> for us to be positive on being accepted for that work.

Hi Nikola, I'll answer here on the list because I think this thread is 
worth being published on the list archive.

You can start without much technical knowledge, but if you want to keep
your translation up-to-date (while the development branch evolves into
the next stable release) you'd better learn how to use cvs and diff.

Here is my recipe.

Basically, you'll start by copying templates/en/* to your sandbox dir
and then translating each file.  Keep in mind that %(foo)s is a 
variable reference (much like %s in C) and must be left untouched.
Also, you must be able to recognize a markup tag (eg, <foo>) because
they must be left untouched too, and you should know how to escape
non-ASCII characters, e.g. "?" -> "&egrave;", but only in html files.
Remember that if you need a literal % sign, it must be doubled: %%

Next, you copy messages/mailman.pot, renaming it to serbian.po.
You can open this file with kbabel (a tool included in KDE SDK) and
translate each string (original on the higher half of the window, your
translation on the bottom half).
If you are a masochist, you can even use emacs PO mode ;)
Keep attention to the same markers and escaping as above, with the added
complexity that here it's harder to say when a string is html (e.g. used
for web UI) or pure text (e.g used for email interface)

Then you try to compile you .po file:

 msgfmt -v -o serbian.mo serbian.po

No error messages should appear.

Next, copy your files on an installed mailman tree, and run
bin/transcheck XX
where XX is your coutry code.

No warning should appear (but maybe some warning is ok, if you really
know what you're doing).

Now, try to run your translation (add an "add_language" line to 
Mailman/Defaults.py) and check the many scattered pieces blend 
together well.  Sometimes you'll need some adjustment.

When you're satistied, pack up a tar.gz with the following structure:

messages/XX/LC_MESSAGES/mailman.po
messages/XX/LC_MESSAGES/mailman.mo
templates/XX/admindbdetails.html
templates/XX/admindbpreamble.html
.
.
templates/XX/userpass.txt
templates/XX/verify.txt

(XX is your country code) and send it to Barry Warsaw.

By that time, your translation could be somewhat obsolete, because
templates and mailman.pot could have been evolved meanwhile.
Don't panic.
You'll need to check diffs to find what changed and how, so that 
you can easily update your files.

Save everything everytime, you'll need it.

Bye

-- 
 Simone Piunno -- http://members.ferrara.linux.it/pioppo 
.-------  Adde parvum parvo magnus acervus erit  -------.
 Ferrara Linux Users Group - http://www.ferrara.linux.it 
 Deep Space 6, IPv6 on Linux - http://www.deepspace6.net 
 GNU Mailman, Mailing List Manager - http://www.list.org 
`-------------------------------------------------------'

From cdengi at tubitak.gov.tr  Tue Mar 18 14:29:50 2003
From: cdengi at tubitak.gov.tr (Cevdet Dengi)
Date: Tue Mar 18 09:08:35 2003
Subject: [Mailman-i18n] Mailman turkish support
Message-ID: <006601c2ed4a$134a8990$02000314@kurumal.tubitak.gov.tr>

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From listas at loquecreas.com  Sun Mar 23 00:23:14 2003
From: listas at loquecreas.com (Pablo Vieira)
Date: Sat Mar 22 18:23:24 2003
Subject: [Mailman-i18n] Spanish version
Message-ID: <000501c2f0ca$0481f140$0101a8c0@pablo>

Hi everyone,

This is my first post, so please excuse my lack of background in the
subject.

I've lurked around the archives but I haven't seen too much late
activity around a Spanish version for Mailman. Is there already a stable
Spanish version out there?

I offer my help to the Spanish translation team, if such a thing exists.
I already translated some amount of Mailman files for my ISP but I've
realised they were not the whole interface and that's why I'm here.

Nice to meet you all.

Pablo



From listas at loquecreas.com  Tue Mar 25 04:04:14 2003
From: listas at loquecreas.com (Pablo Vieira)
Date: Mon Mar 24 22:04:25 2003
Subject: [Mailman-i18n] Spanish version again
Message-ID: <001f01c2f27b$38b8ce90$0101a8c0@pablo>

Hi again,
 
I've sent a message to this list regarding the Spanish version. Well I
have it downloaded and after revising it I find it contains numerous
errors along with a few words left in the original English, but mostly I
disagree with the sense of some translations and the use of certain
words.
 
I also found very appropriate expressions very well translated in other
parts of the interface. As a matter of fact, before I knew there was
this translation group I made a first translation of the interface
myself and I've found you guys made a better approach than me in certain
parts of the translation. Still I'd like to discuss the rest of the
translation with you in order to make it both as accurate and user
friendly as possible.
 
I'd like to follow a discussion in Spanish about this, since we're
talking about the Spanish version of the software and it sounds a bit
ridiculous to me to keep talking to Spanish colleagues in English, but
if this is some sort of a rule in this list, please let me know.
 
Best regards,
 
Pablo
 
PS: I know this is a reply-to-sender list. Please reply to the list and
not to me. Thanks.
 
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From martin at v.loewis.de  Tue Mar 25 08:09:07 2003
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-15?q?L=F6wis?=)
Date: Tue Mar 25 02:09:23 2003
Subject: [Mailman-i18n] Spanish version again
In-Reply-To: <001f01c2f27b$38b8ce90$0101a8c0@pablo>
References: <001f01c2f27b$38b8ce90$0101a8c0@pablo>
Message-ID: <m3fzpbx6r0.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

"Pablo Vieira" <listas@loquecreas.com> writes:

> I'd like to follow a discussion in Spanish about this, since we're
> talking about the Spanish version of the software and it sounds a bit
> ridiculous to me to keep talking to Spanish colleagues in English, but
> if this is some sort of a rule in this list, please let me know.

I think nobody would object to you posting in Spanish to this
list. However, if there is just a single prior or current translator
of the Spanish messages, you might contact him directly as well.
Looking at the PO file, it appears that jcrey@uma.es and
Victoriano Giralt <victoriano@uma.es> are previous translators.

Regards,
Martin


From listas at loquecreas.com  Tue Mar 25 12:01:00 2003
From: listas at loquecreas.com (Pablo Vieira)
Date: Tue Mar 25 06:01:11 2003
Subject: [Mailman-i18n] Spanish version again
In-Reply-To: <m3fzpbx6r0.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <005301c2f2bd$d39986b0$0101a8c0@pablo>

Thanks Martin. I've been contacted already by some members of the group
involved in the translation.

Regards,

Pablo

> -----Mensaje original-----
> De: martin@v.loewis.de [mailto:martin@v.loewis.de] 
> Enviado el: martes, 25 de marzo de 2003 08:09
> Para: Pablo Vieira
> CC: mailman-i18n@python.org; 'Barry Warsaw'
> Asunto: Re: [Mailman-i18n] Spanish version again
> 
> 
> "Pablo Vieira" <listas@loquecreas.com> writes:
> 
> > I'd like to follow a discussion in Spanish about this, since we're
> > talking about the Spanish version of the software and it 
> sounds a bit
> > ridiculous to me to keep talking to Spanish colleagues in 
> English, but
> > if this is some sort of a rule in this list, please let me know.
> 
> I think nobody would object to you posting in Spanish to this
> list. However, if there is just a single prior or current translator
> of the Spanish messages, you might contact him directly as well.
> Looking at the PO file, it appears that jcrey@uma.es and
> Victoriano Giralt <victoriano@uma.es> are previous translators.
> 
> Regards,
> Martin
> 
> 
> 
> 



From danny at terweij.nl  Sat Mar 29 21:47:07 2003
From: danny at terweij.nl (Danny Terweij)
Date: Sat Mar 29 15:47:06 2003
Subject: [Mailman-i18n] When are the checkins ?
Message-ID: <0ea601c2f634$5cbe8fc0$1e00a8c0@onsnet.org>

Hi guys, i did send a while ago to Barry (4 weeks) and later also to t
wouters (2 weeks) a fresh new copy of the Dutch translations. Still they are
not checked in and i am waiting for it.. so i can see if there will be some
fuzzy things after the checkin.

Could someone help me with CVS upload access? so i can email you my
mailman.po/mo and templates?

Danny Terweij
Dutch Translator Mailman



From thomas at xs4all.net  Sun Mar 30 22:07:33 2003
From: thomas at xs4all.net (Thomas Wouters)
Date: Sun Mar 30 15:07:37 2003
Subject: [Mailman-i18n] When are the checkins ?
In-Reply-To: <0ea601c2f634$5cbe8fc0$1e00a8c0@onsnet.org>
References: <0ea601c2f634$5cbe8fc0$1e00a8c0@onsnet.org>
Message-ID: <20030330200733.GH14436@xs4all.nl>

On Sat, Mar 29, 2003 at 09:47:07PM +0100, Danny Terweij wrote:
> Hi guys, i did send a while ago to Barry (4 weeks) and later also to t
> wouters (2 weeks) a fresh new copy of the Dutch translations. Still they are
> not checked in and i am waiting for it.. so i can see if there will be some
> fuzzy things after the checkin.

You sent me the patches last week (the 22nd), and I was away to PyCon this
week. And so was Barry, so he can vouch for me :) I'd seen your emails, but
haven't had time to look them over, much less check them in. I did inform
Barry I'd received them and would be handling them (I think that was on the
way to the sushi bar, or maybe the 'get Steve a pint' pub.)

That said, there is no reason for you to wait for them to be checked in to
see if there are any fuzzy things left. No one else is going to check
anything into the dutch translations, at least not without contacting you
first. If you sent us a straight 'cvs diff -c' (or -u), what you have in
your local CVS tree is what would exist in the CVS repository once we check
it in.

Also, it's almost certainly more efficient to upload your changes to
SourceForge. as a patch, than it is to send it to Barry or me (or any of the
other developers) -- things tend to get lost in our 2000+ message mailboxes.

> Could someone help me with CVS upload access? so i can email you my
> mailman.po/mo and templates?

There is no such thing as 'CVS upload access'. There is CVS write access,
but that means you check them in directly, without emailing them to Barry or
me. Whether you get that is up to Barry, not me :-)

-- 
Thomas Wouters <thomas@xs4all.net>

Hi! I'm a .signature virus! copy me into your .signature file to help me spread!

From danny at terweij.nl  Sun Mar 30 23:22:40 2003
From: danny at terweij.nl (Danny Terweij)
Date: Sun Mar 30 16:22:38 2003
Subject: [Mailman-i18n] When are the checkins ?
References: <0ea601c2f634$5cbe8fc0$1e00a8c0@onsnet.org>
	<20030330200733.GH14436@xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <113b01c2f702$7e886b20$1e00a8c0@onsnet.org>

From: "Thomas Wouters" <thomas@xs4all.net>

> That said, there is no reason for you to wait for them to be checked in to
> see if there are any fuzzy things left. No one else is going to check
> anything into the dutch translations, at least not without contacting you
> first. If you sent us a straight 'cvs diff -c' (or -u), what you have in
> your local CVS tree is what would exist in the CVS repository once we
check
> it in.

Hmm keep in mind , i am a windows user :) and have a linux box here because
i did not find an good mailing list manager on the windows plaform so i dont
know very much :)
At the beginning i just did the translation with "NotePad". Then i met
another translator that is helping me. Het wss using PoEdit on window
splatform and that is working great.. (i wish i did know about that program
a year ago :D )

So i dont know things about CVS, i just do the CVS lines mentioned on the
sourceforge pages to get the Mailman CVS.

> Also, it's almost certainly more efficient to upload your changes to
> SourceForge. as a patch, than it is to send it to Barry or me (or any of
the
> other developers) -- things tend to get lost in our 2000+ message
mailboxes.

See above.

> There is no such thing as 'CVS upload access'. There is CVS write access,
> but that means you check them in directly, without emailing them to Barry
or
> me. Whether you get that is up to Barry, not me :-)

Hmm you see i dont know much :)

So that why i do it this way because i dont know other ways :)

Danny Terweij