From barry@python.org Fri Oct 4 22:29:54 2002 From: barry@python.org (Barry A. Warsaw) Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2002 17:29:54 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-i18n] "Funny" characters in real names? References: <15746.14309.516823.293632@anthem.wooz.org> <3D8248C5.5040205@debian.org> <15746.31280.719924.780772@anthem.wooz.org> <15749.2812.524261.962949@anthem.wooz.org> <15751.38782.74609.163241@anthem.wooz.org> <3D879D2B.5080600@debian.org> <15751.40940.902092.18578@anthem.wooz.org> <3D87CB98.8010908@is.kochi-u.ac.jp> <15751.56377.321564.625249@anthem.wooz.org> <3D87E770.9000903@is.kochi-u.ac.jp> Message-ID: <15774.2130.542003.883061@gargle.gargle.HOWL> [CC'ing Fran=E7ois as the recode guru -BAW] I think I finally, mostly, understand this issue and have fixes in place for it. To test it I added three users to a list, one with a pure ascii name, one with an iso-8859-1 name and one with Tokio Kikuchi's name. :) I can now see the names both in the admin page, the options page, and properly encoded in email. Everything's checked in so I'd love to get some feedback. Basically, when encoding for html, I want to end up with a byte string that is encoded in the charset of the web page, with any funny characters htmlref'd. When encoding for email, I want to end up with a Unicode string that the Header class can munch on to produce an RFC 2047 encoding. I have one nit that I'm not sure how to address though. I use VM in a MULE-ified XEmacs to read my mail and it has pretty good header decoding routines. If the charset is provided, it'll show me the real characters in a presentation buffer. However, it needs help for utf-8. Here's an example of a To header sent to my address with TK's Unicode name as the full name. Note that I've set this member's language to English, so Mailman doesn't know what character set the full name is in, but hey, it's stored internally as Unicode. To: =3D?utf-8?b?6I+K5Zyw5pmC5aSr?=3D I can take the characters 6I+K5Zyw5pmC5aSr, stick them in a file, and see the Japanese characters in a shell buffer when I execute the following command: % recode utf-8/b64..iso-2022-jp < /tmp/tk.txt However VM doesn't show me the Japanese characters for this name because it doesn't have internal support for utf-8 decoding. However it can call out to recode (or iconv) after doing the base64 conversion internall, if I know the target charset and the command line. But I /don't/ know the target charset any more than Mailman does. Just about anything can be utf-8 encoded right? Maybe there's no way to hook it up with VM (vm-mime-charset-converter-alist for the Emacsheads in the audience), or maybe I just don't know what I'm talking about. :) Since I don't know the target character set, is there really anything I can do? Or am I not encoding the full name as well as I can? If anybody has any clues to help me get VM to display the characters would be greatly appreciated. -Barry From che@debian.org Fri Oct 4 23:25:51 2002 From: che@debian.org (Ben Gertzfield) Date: Fri, 04 Oct 2002 15:25:51 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-i18n] "Funny" characters in real names? References: <15746.14309.516823.293632@anthem.wooz.org> <3D8248C5.5040205@debian.org> <15746.31280.719924.780772@anthem.wooz.org> <15749.2812.524261.962949@anthem.wooz.org> <15751.38782.74609.163241@anthem.wooz.org> <3D879D2B.5080600@debian.org> <15751.40940.902092.18578@anthem.wooz.org> <3D87CB98.8010908@is.kochi-u.ac.jp> <15751.56377.321564.625249@anthem.wooz.org> <3D87E770.9000903@is.kochi-u.ac.jp> <15774.2130.542003.883061@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <3D9E156F.1000907@debian.org> Barry A. Warsaw wrote: >I have one nit that I'm not sure how to address though. I use VM in a >MULE-ified XEmacs to read my mail and it has pretty good header >decoding routines. If the charset is provided, it'll show me the real >characters in a presentation buffer. However, it needs help for >utf-8. > I used MULE and xemacs (with Gnus) for years to read my email, but I was never able to find a solution for UTF-8 headers. If you do end up finding one, please let the list know ;) The real problem is that MULE has a very hard-coded base on ISO-2022, and just grafting on UTF-8 is very, very hard. There is a MULE-UCS package for Unicode support, but the last time I tried to use it it barfed hard. If you can get it installed, it seems all you need is: (if (locate-library "un-define") (require 'un-define)) in your ~/.xemacs/init.el. See: http://lists.suse.com/archive/m17n/2002-May/0016.html Ben From tkikuchi@is.kochi-u.ac.jp Sat Oct 5 01:47:50 2002 From: tkikuchi@is.kochi-u.ac.jp (Tokio Kikuchi) Date: Sat, 05 Oct 2002 09:47:50 +0900 Subject: [Mailman-i18n] "Funny" characters in real names? References: <15746.14309.516823.293632@anthem.wooz.org> <3D8248C5.5040205@debian.org> <15746.31280.719924.780772@anthem.wooz.org> <15749.2812.524261.962949@anthem.wooz.org> <15751.38782.74609.163241@anthem.wooz.org> <3D879D2B.5080600@debian.org> <15751.40940.902092.18578@anthem.wooz.org> <3D87CB98.8010908@is.kochi-u.ac.jp> <15751.56377.321564.625249@anthem.wooz.org> <3D87E770.9000903@is.kochi-u.ac.jp> <15774.2130.542003.883061@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <3D9E36B6.3010901@is.kochi-u.ac.jp> Barry A. Warsaw wrote: > [CC'ing Fran=E7ois as the recode guru -BAW] >=20 > I think I finally, mostly, understand this issue and have fixes in > place for it. To test it I added three users to a list, one with a > pure ascii name, one with an iso-8859-1 name and one with Tokio > Kikuchi's name. :) I can now see the names both in the admin page, the > options page, and properly encoded in email. Everything's checked in > so I'd love to get some feedback. >=20 Looks fine except when I confirm subscription from Cgi. Here is the patch: --- confirm.py Thu Sep 19 15:43:01 2002 +++ /home/mailman3/Mailman/Cgi/confirm.py Sat Oct 5 09:15:35 2002 @@ -313,7 +313,7 @@ userdesc =3D Pending.confirm(cookie, expunge=3D0)[1] fullname =3D cgidata.getvalue('realname', None) if fullname is not None: - fullname =3D Utils.canonstr(fullname) + fullname =3D Utils.canonstr(fullname, lang) overrides =3D UserDesc(fullname=3Dfullname, digest=3Ddigest= , lang=3Dlang) userdesc +=3D overrides op, addr, pw, digest, lang =3D mlist.ProcessConfirmation( --=20 Tokio Kikuchi, tkikuchi@ is.kochi-u.ac.jp http://weather.is.kochi-u.ac.jp/ From barry@python.org Sat Oct 5 23:19:41 2002 From: barry@python.org (Barry A. Warsaw) Date: Sat, 5 Oct 2002 18:19:41 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-i18n] "Funny" characters in real names? References: <15746.14309.516823.293632@anthem.wooz.org> <3D8248C5.5040205@debian.org> <15746.31280.719924.780772@anthem.wooz.org> <15749.2812.524261.962949@anthem.wooz.org> <15751.38782.74609.163241@anthem.wooz.org> <3D879D2B.5080600@debian.org> <15751.40940.902092.18578@anthem.wooz.org> <3D87CB98.8010908@is.kochi-u.ac.jp> <15751.56377.321564.625249@anthem.wooz.org> <3D87E770.9000903@is.kochi-u.ac.jp> <15774.2130.542003.883061@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <3D9E156F.1000907@debian.org> Message-ID: <15775.25981.94390.164402@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "BG" == Ben Gertzfield writes: BG> I used MULE and xemacs (with Gnus) for years to read my email, BG> but I was never able to find a solution for UTF-8 headers. If BG> you do end up finding one, please let the list know ;) Well, I spent a little time playing with un-define, and googling around, but wasn't able to come up with the magic incantations. Maybe this XEmacs FAQ entry sheds light that we have a while to wait yet... but-thanks-for-the-tips-ly y'rs, -Barry -------------------- snip snip -------------------- File: xemacs-faq.info, Node: Q1.3.9, Next: Q1.4.1, Prev: Q1.3.8, Up: Introduction Q1.3.9: How does XEmacs display Unicode? ---------------------------------------- Mule doesn't have a Unicode charset internally, so there's nothing to bind a Unicode registry to. It would not be straightforward to create, either, because Unicode is not ISO 2022-compatible. You'd have to translate it to multiple 96x96 pages. This means that Mule-UCS uses ordinary national fonts for display. This is not really a problem, except for those languages that use the Unified Han characters. The problem here is that Mule-UCS maps from Unicode code points to national character sets in a deterministic way. By default, this means that Japanese fonts are tried first, then Chinese, then Korean. To change the priority ordering, use the command `un-define-change-charset-order'. It also means you can't use Unicode fonts directly, at least not without extreme hackery. You can run -nw with (set-terminal-coding-system 'utf-8) if you really want a Unicode font for some reason. Real Unicode support will be introduced in XEmacs 22.0. From barry@python.org Sat Oct 5 23:38:49 2002 From: barry@python.org (Barry A. Warsaw) Date: Sat, 5 Oct 2002 18:38:49 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-i18n] "Funny" characters in real names? References: <15746.14309.516823.293632@anthem.wooz.org> <3D8248C5.5040205@debian.org> <15746.31280.719924.780772@anthem.wooz.org> <15749.2812.524261.962949@anthem.wooz.org> <15751.38782.74609.163241@anthem.wooz.org> <3D879D2B.5080600@debian.org> <15751.40940.902092.18578@anthem.wooz.org> <3D87CB98.8010908@is.kochi-u.ac.jp> <15751.56377.321564.625249@anthem.wooz.org> <3D87E770.9000903@is.kochi-u.ac.jp> <15774.2130.542003.883061@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <3D9E36B6.3010901@is.kochi-u.ac.jp> Message-ID: <15775.27129.482151.632022@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "TK" == Tokio Kikuchi writes: TK> Looks fine except when I confirm subscription from Cgi. TK> Here is the patch: Applied, thanks! -Barry From loewis@informatik.hu-berlin.de Sun Oct 6 11:49:41 2002 From: loewis@informatik.hu-berlin.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-1?q?L=F6wis?=) Date: 06 Oct 2002 12:49:41 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-i18n] "Funny" characters in real names? In-Reply-To: <15775.25981.94390.164402@gargle.gargle.HOWL> References: <15746.14309.516823.293632@anthem.wooz.org> <3D8248C5.5040205@debian.org> <15746.31280.719924.780772@anthem.wooz.org> <15749.2812.524261.962949@anthem.wooz.org> <15751.38782.74609.163241@anthem.wooz.org> <3D879D2B.5080600@debian.org> <15751.40940.902092.18578@anthem.wooz.org> <3D87CB98.8010908@is.kochi-u.ac.jp> <15751.56377.321564.625249@anthem.wooz.org> <3D87E770.9000903@is.kochi-u.ac.jp> <15774.2130.542003.883061@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <3D9E156F.1000907@debian.org> <15775.25981.94390.164402@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: barry@python.org (Barry A. Warsaw) writes: > Well, I spent a little time playing with un-define, and googling > around, but wasn't able to come up with the magic incantations. Maybe > this XEmacs FAQ entry sheds light that we have a while to wait yet... In GNU Emacs, the situation is slightly different: It recognizes a few Unicode subsets, like mule-unicode-0100-24ff, mule-unicode-2500-33ff, and mule-unicode-e000-ffff. Notice that this excludes the CJK ideographs. The real problem is the ISO-2022 inheritance of Mule: While a buffer can represent multiple charsets, it can rarely equate characters across charset borders. So if two originate from two different charsets, they are considered different (unless there is a conversion procedure for this specific pair of charsets). In CVS Emacs, the "Latin unification" is considered a big step forward, ie. the fact that Emacs can now treat the overlapping character from iso-8859-{1,2,15,16} as equivalent. Without unification, Emacs has difficulties displaying the characters: Even if there is a font that has the necessary character, Emacs cannot find out that this font could be used if the font encoding is different from the buffer encoding. These problems would go away had Emacs used Unicode as an internal encoding, but there is some hostility from the Mule authors towards Unicode, in particular because of the need for Unihan disambiguation. Regards, Martin From loewis@informatik.hu-berlin.de Sun Oct 6 17:38:28 2002 From: loewis@informatik.hu-berlin.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-1?q?L=F6wis?=) Date: 06 Oct 2002 18:38:28 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-i18n] "Funny" characters in real names? In-Reply-To: References: <15746.14309.516823.293632@anthem.wooz.org> <3D8248C5.5040205@debian.org> <15746.31280.719924.780772@anthem.wooz.org> <15749.2812.524261.962949@anthem.wooz.org> <15751.38782.74609.163241@anthem.wooz.org> <3D879D2B.5080600@debian.org> <15751.40940.902092.18578@anthem.wooz.org> <3D87CB98.8010908@is.kochi-u.ac.jp> <15751.56377.321564.625249@anthem.wooz.org> <3D87E770.9000903@is.kochi-u.ac.jp> <15774.2130.542003.883061@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <3D9E156F.1000907@debian.org> <15775.25981.94390.164402@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: loewis@informatik.hu-berlin.de (Martin v. L=F6wis) writes: > In GNU Emacs, the situation is slightly different: It recognizes a few > Unicode subsets, like mule-unicode-0100-24ff, mule-unicode-2500-33ff, > and mule-unicode-e000-ffff. Notice that this excludes the CJK > ideographs. As a follow-up, Emacs 21.3.50.2 now also has a defcustom setting utf-translate-cjk (in the mule group), which is off by default. If activated, reading UTF-8 will convert the CJK ranges to equivalent characters from jisx0208, gb2312, or ksc5601. In turn, if proper fonts are installed, Emacs can also display CJK Unicode characters. This goes together with utf-fragment-on-decoding, which arranges to convert UTF-8 strings into iso-8859 where possible (in particular for Greek and Cyrillic), so that, given proper fonts, Greek and Cyrillic can also be displayed. Regards, Martin From pioppo@ferrara.linux.it Sun Oct 6 23:31:17 2002 From: pioppo@ferrara.linux.it (Simone Piunno) Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2002 00:31:17 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-i18n] refreshing mailman.pot before beta4 Message-ID: <20021006223117.GE2353@ferrara.linux.it> Hi, I see that we are approaching beta4 release (because Barry already checked in the comment lines in the NEWS file) and I was thinking that it would be useful to have a fresh mailman.pot in CVS about 1 week before the release. This way we translators will have a chance to resync our catalogs and ship them in the official beta4 tar.gz. I think this should be the correct procedure at least for 2.1 final. Barry, what do you think? -- Adde parvum parvo magnus acervus erit. Simone Piunno, FerraraLUG - http://members.ferrara.linux.it/pioppo From barry@python.org Mon Oct 7 03:31:51 2002 From: barry@python.org (Barry A. Warsaw) Date: Sun, 6 Oct 2002 22:31:51 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-i18n] refreshing mailman.pot before beta4 References: <20021006223117.GE2353@ferrara.linux.it> Message-ID: <15776.61975.206181.820979@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "SP" == Simone Piunno writes: SP> I see that we are approaching beta4 release (because Barry SP> already checked in the comment lines in the NEWS file) and I SP> was thinking that it would be useful to have a fresh SP> mailman.pot in CVS about 1 week before the release. This way SP> we translators will have a chance to resync our catalogs and SP> ship them in the official beta4 tar.gz. I think this should SP> be the correct procedure at least for 2.1 final. SP> Barry, what do you think? That works for me. I figure it will take me about a week to polish off b4, if the release of Python 2.2.2 and other Zope work goes smoothly enough. I could generate the new .pot file tonight or tomorrow. Is CVS sufficient or do you want me to upload it to SF also? -Barry From pioppo@ferrara.linux.it Mon Oct 7 09:55:36 2002 From: pioppo@ferrara.linux.it (Simone Piunno) Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2002 10:55:36 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-i18n] refreshing mailman.pot before beta4 In-Reply-To: <15776.61975.206181.820979@gargle.gargle.HOWL> References: <20021006223117.GE2353@ferrara.linux.it> <15776.61975.206181.820979@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <20021007085536.GB21211@pioppo.wired> > That works for me. I figure it will take me about a week to polish > off b4, if the release of Python 2.2.2 and other Zope work goes > smoothly enough. good > I could generate the new .pot file tonight or tomorrow. Is CVS > sufficient or do you want me to upload it to SF also? CVS is enough for me, thanks. -- This signature intentionally left blank From a.zeini@farsikde.org Mon Oct 7 10:36:06 2002 From: a.zeini@farsikde.org (Arash Zeini) Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2002 13:06:06 +0330 Subject: [Mailman-i18n] RTL and BiDi Message-ID: <200210071306.06076.a.zeini@farsikde.org> Hi, I am new to this list. As far as I could see from the archives, there is = no=20 development toward support for RTL and BiDi for languages like Farsi and=20 Arabic. Is this correct? Or if there are any efforts in this direction, please give me a hint! Thanks, Arash --=20 The FarsiKDE Project http://www.farsikde.org From tkikuchi@is.kochi-u.ac.jp Mon Oct 7 11:12:03 2002 From: tkikuchi@is.kochi-u.ac.jp (Tokio Kikuchi) Date: Mon, 07 Oct 2002 19:12:03 +0900 Subject: [Mailman-i18n] refreshing mailman.pot before beta4 References: <20021006223117.GE2353@ferrara.linux.it> Message-ID: <3DA15DF3.3070609@is.kochi-u.ac.jp> Hi, I like the idea and welcome the decision Barry made. Just FYI, anyone can generate a fresh mailman.pot by typing $ make mailman.pot at $mailmansrc/messages directory. You may have to remove mailman.pot and *.files for really fresh generation. BTW, I always have to edit Makefile s/>|/>/g to do this job. Is it standard to use '>|' instead of just '>' for redirection ? Simone Piunno wrote: > Hi, > > I see that we are approaching beta4 release (because Barry already > checked in the comment lines in the NEWS file) and I was thinking > that it would be useful to have a fresh mailman.pot in CVS about 1 > week before the release. This way we translators will have a chance > to resync our catalogs and ship them in the official beta4 tar.gz. > I think this should be the correct procedure at least for 2.1 final. -- Tokio Kikuchi, tkikuchi@ is.kochi-u.ac.jp http://weather.is.kochi-u.ac.jp/ From loewis@informatik.hu-berlin.de Mon Oct 7 12:12:04 2002 From: loewis@informatik.hu-berlin.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-1?q?L=F6wis?=) Date: 07 Oct 2002 13:12:04 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-i18n] RTL and BiDi In-Reply-To: <200210071306.06076.a.zeini@farsikde.org> References: <200210071306.06076.a.zeini@farsikde.org> Message-ID: Arash Zeini writes: > I am new to this list. As far as I could see from the archives, > there is no development toward support for RTL and BiDi for > languages like Farsi and Arabic. Is this correct? What kind of support would you expect? From a mailman point of view, this issue does not exist, AFAICT. Now, translating mailman to Arabic, Hebrew, Farsi languages is another story - contributions are certainly welcome. Regards, Martin From loewis@informatik.hu-berlin.de Mon Oct 7 12:22:00 2002 From: loewis@informatik.hu-berlin.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-1?q?L=F6wis?=) Date: 07 Oct 2002 13:22:00 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-i18n] refreshing mailman.pot before beta4 In-Reply-To: <3DA15DF3.3070609@is.kochi-u.ac.jp> References: <20021006223117.GE2353@ferrara.linux.it> <3DA15DF3.3070609@is.kochi-u.ac.jp> Message-ID: Tokio Kikuchi writes: > Just FYI, anyone can generate a fresh mailman.pot by typing > $ make mailman.pot > at $mailmansrc/messages directory. > You may have to remove mailman.pot and *.files for really > fresh generation. On a procedural note: While this is the case, I would recommend that translators stick to "official" templates generated by the project maintainer (i.e. Barry). That way, it is easier to identify catalogs later on, as the POT-Creation-Date will refer to one of a few official templates. Regards, Martin From barry@python.org Mon Oct 7 21:22:51 2002 From: barry@python.org (Barry A. Warsaw) Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2002 16:22:51 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-i18n] refreshing mailman.pot before beta4 References: <20021006223117.GE2353@ferrara.linux.it> <3DA15DF3.3070609@is.kochi-u.ac.jp> Message-ID: <15777.60699.582914.339957@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "TK" == Tokio Kikuchi writes: TK> BTW, I always have to edit Makefile s/>|/>/g to do this job. TK> Is it standard to use '>|' instead of just '>' for redirection TK> ? AFAIK, >| is the bash-ism for "stick the output in this file, overwriting it if it exists", and since I use bash... :) BTW, mailman.pot update has been checked in. -Barry From barry@python.org Mon Oct 7 21:24:32 2002 From: barry@python.org (Barry A. Warsaw) Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2002 16:24:32 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-i18n] RTL and BiDi References: <200210071306.06076.a.zeini@farsikde.org> Message-ID: <15777.60800.149274.172843@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "AZ" == Arash Zeini writes: AZ> I am new to this list. As far as I could see from the AZ> archives, there is no development toward support for RTL and AZ> BiDi for languages like Farsi and Arabic. Is this correct? Or AZ> if there are any efforts in this direction, please give me a AZ> hint! As Martin pointed out, there are currently no volunteers translating Mailman into Farsi or Arabic. Contributions are welcome. See the README-I18N.en file in the source distribution for details. -Barry From a.zeini@farsikde.org Tue Oct 8 07:28:15 2002 From: a.zeini@farsikde.org (Arash Zeini) Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002 09:58:15 +0330 Subject: [Mailman-i18n] RTL and BiDi In-Reply-To: References: <200210071306.06076.a.zeini@farsikde.org> Message-ID: <200210080958.15067.a.zeini@farsikde.org> On Monday 07 October 2002 14:42, Martin v. L=F6wis wrote: > Arash Zeini writes: > > I am new to this list. As far as I could see from the archives, > > there is no development toward support for RTL and BiDi for > > languages like Farsi and Arabic. Is this correct? > > What kind of support would you expect? From a mailman point of view, > this issue does not exist, AFAICT. I guess the problem may not exist if I post to a mailing list from within= an=20 email client that supports Farsi. OK, there might not be an issue. But the problem may occur as soon as we talk about the archives, where HT= ML is=20 generated. My guess is everything will be left-to-right and unreadable. This is why I posted. While managing a mailing list I tried to enter some= =20 description text in Farsi. Farsi, Arabic and Hebrew are written right-to-= left=20 and all descriptions that I entered occurred just LTR. Also the generated= =20 HTML in mailman does not use UTF-8 encoding why again we have a problem. = I.e.=20 no browser would display any of these three languages correctly. One has = to=20 set it manually to be able to read the text. Finding a solution shouldn't be too complicated, as all of this is suppor= ted=20 through HTML.=20 > Now, translating mailman to Arabic, Hebrew, Farsi languages is another > story - contributions are certainly welcome. You are right, this is another story. But even here we need the proper=20 structure in the HTML pages to be able to translate anything. We need=20 everything mirrored otherwise it is not useable. This is done through the= =20 dir=3D"RTL" attribute in HTML. And we need UTF-8 as encoding in the heade= r part=20 of the HTML page. In KDE this problem is solved this way: in the main .pot file there is one string which is not a translatable str= ing=20 but the entry which denotes the text direction. I.e. the translator fills= in=20 the value RTL or LTR and according to this value the interface and text=20 direction is set. The same could be done in mailman I guess. Now, if we have the time to work on the translation of Mailman so soon, t= hat=20 is_another_story :) Greetings, Arash --=20 The FarsiKDE Project http://www.farsikde.org From loewis@informatik.hu-berlin.de Tue Oct 8 10:53:22 2002 From: loewis@informatik.hu-berlin.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-1?q?L=F6wis?=) Date: 08 Oct 2002 11:53:22 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-i18n] RTL and BiDi In-Reply-To: <200210080958.15067.a.zeini@farsikde.org> References: <200210071306.06076.a.zeini@farsikde.org> <200210080958.15067.a.zeini@farsikde.org> Message-ID: Arash Zeini writes: > But the problem may occur as soon as we talk about the archives, > where HTML is generated. My guess is everything will be > left-to-right and unreadable. Did you try? My guess is that it comes out correctly, since the Web browser will do RTL. > This is why I posted. While managing a mailing list I tried to enter > some description text in Farsi. Farsi, Arabic and Hebrew are written > right-to-left and all descriptions that I entered occurred just LTR. When entering them, or when Mailman was displaying them back? > Also the generated HTML in mailman does not use UTF-8 encoding why > again we have a problem. What Mailman version? I don't think UTF-8 is strictly necessary - wouldn't ISO-8859-6 work as well? > I.e. no browser would display any of these three languages > correctly. One has to set it manually to be able to read the text. Did you configure Mailman to change the encoding of the pages? > You are right, this is another story. But even here we need the > proper structure in the HTML pages to be able to translate > anything. We need everything mirrored otherwise it is not useable. > This is done through the dir="RTL" attribute in HTML. I think this can go into the page templates. > in the main .pot file there is one string which is not a > translatable string but the entry which denotes the text > direction. I.e. the translator fills in the value RTL or LTR and > according to this value the interface and text direction is set. The > same could be done in mailman I guess. I think it can be solved in a much simpler way. Regards, Martin From a.zeini@farsikde.org Tue Oct 8 11:31:20 2002 From: a.zeini@farsikde.org (Arash Zeini) Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002 14:01:20 +0330 Subject: [Mailman-i18n] RTL and BiDi In-Reply-To: References: <200210071306.06076.a.zeini@farsikde.org> <200210080958.15067.a.zeini@farsikde.org> Message-ID: <200210081401.20797.a.zeini@farsikde.org> On Tuesday 08 October 2002 13:23, Martin v. L=F6wis wrote: > Arash Zeini writes: > > But the problem may occur as soon as we talk about the archives, > > where HTML is generated. My guess is everything will be > > left-to-right and unreadable. > > Did you try? My guess is that it comes out correctly, since the Web > browser will do RTL. No, I didn't try. Usually the web browser doesn't do the RTL automaticall= y, if=20 this is what you mean. Wouldn't it need the dir attribute?=20 I guess the best way to try is to have a test mailman 2.1. Is it worth it= to=20 try on older versions? And is there such a testing installation anywhere= , or=20 should i set one for myself? > > This is why I posted. While managing a mailing list I tried to enter > > some description text in Farsi. Farsi, Arabic and Hebrew are written > > right-to-left and all descriptions that I entered occurred just LTR. > > When entering them, or when Mailman was displaying them back? While Mailman was displaying them back. > > Also the generated HTML in mailman does not use UTF-8 encoding why > > again we have a problem. > > What Mailman version? I don't think UTF-8 is strictly necessary - > wouldn't ISO-8859-6 work as well? UTF-8 is the recommended one for Farsi. ISO-8859-6 works best for Arabic. > > I.e. no browser would display any of these three languages > > correctly. One has to set it manually to be able to read the text. > > Did you configure Mailman to change the encoding of the pages? No. I was not aware of this feature. Is UTF-8 a supported encoding. And please note that I am not a Mailman expert. I encountered a problem a= nd=20 contacted the list to make suggestions. > > You are right, this is another story. But even here we need the > > proper structure in the HTML pages to be able to translate > > anything. We need everything mirrored otherwise it is not useable. > > This is done through the dir=3D"RTL" attribute in HTML. > > I think this can go into the page templates. I had a look at the distribution package and understand the structure bet= ter=20 now.=20 True the templates would be the easiest place. > > in the main .pot file there is one string which is not a > > translatable string but the entry which denotes the text > > direction. I.e. the translator fills in the value RTL or LTR and > > according to this value the interface and text direction is set. The > > same could be done in mailman I guess. > > I think it can be solved in a much simpler way. What would be the recommended way? Arash --=20 The FarsiKDE Project http://www.farsikde.org From loewis@informatik.hu-berlin.de Tue Oct 8 12:58:02 2002 From: loewis@informatik.hu-berlin.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-1?q?L=F6wis?=) Date: 08 Oct 2002 13:58:02 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-i18n] RTL and BiDi In-Reply-To: <200210081401.20797.a.zeini@farsikde.org> References: <200210071306.06076.a.zeini@farsikde.org> <200210080958.15067.a.zeini@farsikde.org> <200210081401.20797.a.zeini@farsikde.org> Message-ID: Arash Zeini writes: > No, I didn't try. Usually the web browser doesn't do the RTL > automatically, if this is what you mean. Wouldn't it need the dir > attribute? I've tried both MSIE6 and Mozilla/Gecko, and both render Arabic text RTL without a dir attribute. They just know, from looking at their Unicode database, what directionality each character has. IMHO, the HTML dir attribute was invented by people who did not think it possible to implement such a BiDi algorithm in the Web browser. > I guess the best way to try is to have a test mailman 2.1. Is it > worth it to try on older versions? In this area, I recommend to use 2.1bsomething. > And is there such a testing installation anywhere, or should i set > one for myself? I don't know of any test installation for such purposes. > UTF-8 is the recommended one for Farsi. ISO-8859-6 works best for > Arabic. I see. You should add those to Mailman/Defaults.py. > No. I was not aware of this feature. Is UTF-8 a supported encoding. Certainly, yes: Mailman supports all encodings supported in Python, plus a few more. This is all for Mailman 2.1, of course. > What would be the recommended way? I'd recommend to add Farsi as a language to mailman, and take no additional steps for RTL. I still think it would work out just fine. Regards, Martin From loewis@informatik.hu-berlin.de Tue Oct 8 13:53:53 2002 From: loewis@informatik.hu-berlin.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-1?q?L=F6wis?=) Date: 08 Oct 2002 14:53:53 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-i18n] RTL and BiDi In-Reply-To: <200210081555.07078.a.zeini@farsikde.org> References: <200210071306.06076.a.zeini@farsikde.org> <200210081401.20797.a.zeini@farsikde.org> <200210081555.07078.a.zeini@farsikde.org> Message-ID: Arash Zeini writes: > I think we are talking about two different things. Sure the browsers > display RTL correctly on the word level. The characters are ordered > correctly, but the sentence as a total or even the word itself is > not placed on the right side of the browser. Neither forms nor > fields are mirrored by the browser if the dir attribute is missing. I see, thanks for these explanations! I withdraw my claims. > > I see. You should add those to Mailman/Defaults.py. > > You mean in CVS or locally? I'd suggest that you first get it to work locally - preferably still without changing the Python code proper. You might find that things you want to do cannot be achieved, so actual code changes would be needed. When you have a basically-working infrastructure, feel free to contribute. > As I said I doubt this would be enough by its own. I need to make > some further investigation adn will try to install a local Mailman > to test things. I have the latest 2.1bsomething :) Good! It may be that some people here are more familiar with Farsi, Arabic, or Hebrew than I am - but don't expect too much help on RTL issues. When it comes to Python problems, don't hesitate to ask for advise and help. Regards, Martin From a.zeini@farsikde.org Tue Oct 8 13:25:07 2002 From: a.zeini@farsikde.org (Arash Zeini) Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002 15:55:07 +0330 Subject: [Mailman-i18n] RTL and BiDi In-Reply-To: References: <200210071306.06076.a.zeini@farsikde.org> <200210081401.20797.a.zeini@farsikde.org> Message-ID: <200210081555.07078.a.zeini@farsikde.org> On Tuesday 08 October 2002 15:28, Martin v. L=F6wis wrote: > Arash Zeini writes: > > No, I didn't try. Usually the web browser doesn't do the RTL > > automatically, if this is what you mean. Wouldn't it need the dir > > attribute? > > I've tried both MSIE6 and Mozilla/Gecko, and both render Arabic text > RTL without a dir attribute. They just know, from looking at their > Unicode database, what directionality each character has. I think we are talking about two different things. Sure the browsers disp= lay=20 RTL correctly on the word level. The characters are ordered correctly, bu= t=20 the sentence as a total or even the word itself is not placed on the righ= t=20 side of the browser. Neither forms nor fields are mirrored by the browser= if=20 the dir attribute is missing. Also the scrollbar is not placed on the lef= t=20 side without the necessary HTML attibutes. (At least to judge from Konque= ror=20 and Mozilla, donot know about IE) I am attaching a sample HTML file to demonstrate this. The socon para doe= sn't=20 have the dir attribute and hence is not positioned correctly and the flow= of=20 the sentence is not correct as well. > IMHO, the HTML dir attribute was invented by people who did not think > it possible to implement such a BiDi algorithm in the Web browser. No, the dir attribute is essential, IMHO. > > I guess the best way to try is to have a test mailman 2.1. Is it > > worth it to try on older versions? > > In this area, I recommend to use 2.1bsomething. > > > And is there such a testing installation anywhere, or should i set > > one for myself? > > I don't know of any test installation for such purposes. > > > UTF-8 is the recommended one for Farsi. ISO-8859-6 works best for > > Arabic. > > I see. You should add those to Mailman/Defaults.py. You mean in CVS or locally? > I'd recommend to add Farsi as a language to mailman, and take no > additional steps for RTL. I still think it would work out just fine. As I said I doubt this would be enough by its own. I need to make some fu= rther=20 investigation adn will try to install a local Mailman to test things. I h= ave=20 the latest 2.1bsomething :) Greetings, Arash --=20 The FarsiKDE Project http://www.farsikde.org From barry@python.org Tue Oct 8 13:56:47 2002 From: barry@python.org (Barry A. Warsaw) Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002 08:56:47 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-i18n] RTL and BiDi References: <200210071306.06076.a.zeini@farsikde.org> <200210080958.15067.a.zeini@farsikde.org> <200210081401.20797.a.zeini@farsikde.org> Message-ID: <15778.54799.506176.705244@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "MvL" =3D=3D Martin v L=F6wis wr= ites: MvL> I'd recommend to add Farsi as a language to mailman, and take MvL> no additional steps for RTL. I still think it would work out MvL> just fine. I concur with Martin. I would recommend using Mailman 2.1 from cvs. I'm going to be working toward beta4 this week, so expect checkins and fixes. If you're not comfortable with cvs, then definitely use MM2.1b3. You should be able to follow the instructions in README-I18N.en and the examples in Defaults.py.in, the templates directory, and the messages directory to figure out what you'd need to add. It should be fairly straightforward to get the infrastructure in place, and this list can certainly help with details. As for whether Pipermail can handle it, that's a good question. There's a patch on SF for improving the i18n of Pipermail which I intend to look at today: http://sf.net/tracker/index.php?func=3Ddetail&aid=3D594771&group_id=3D1= 03&atid=3D300103 Just be aware that time is running out for MM2.1. I'm going to get this sucker out by the end of the year (if not before) if I have to setup a caffeine IV drip and and hack in the shower. :) If the BiDi changes are extensive -- and I hope/expect they won't be -- we'll have to postpone them to the next release. -Barry From a.zeini@farsikde.org Tue Oct 8 13:58:06 2002 From: a.zeini@farsikde.org (Arash Zeini) Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002 16:28:06 +0330 Subject: [Mailman-i18n] RTL and BiDi In-Reply-To: References: <200210071306.06076.a.zeini@farsikde.org> <200210081555.07078.a.zeini@farsikde.org> Message-ID: <200210081628.06830.a.zeini@farsikde.org> On Tuesday 08 October 2002 16:23, Martin v. L=F6wis wrote: [...] > Good! It may be that some people here are more familiar with Farsi, > Arabic, or Hebrew than I am - but don't expect too much help on RTL > issues. When it comes to Python problems, don't hesitate to ask for > advise and help. Good, thanks for the help and discussion. I will get back to the list once I have a more practical approach and kno= w=20 what exactly would/could be missing. Greetings, Arash --=20 The FarsiKDE Project http://www.farsikde.org From barry@python.org Tue Oct 8 14:00:03 2002 From: barry@python.org (Barry A. Warsaw) Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002 09:00:03 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-i18n] RTL and BiDi References: <200210071306.06076.a.zeini@farsikde.org> <200210081401.20797.a.zeini@farsikde.org> <200210081555.07078.a.zeini@farsikde.org> Message-ID: <15778.54995.226582.561084@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "AZ" == Arash Zeini writes: AZ> I am attaching a sample HTML file to demonstrate this. The AZ> socon para doesn't have the dir attribute and hence is not AZ> positioned correctly and the flow of the sentence is not AZ> correct as well. I didn't see any attachments. -Barry From a.zeini@farsikde.org Tue Oct 8 17:51:28 2002 From: a.zeini@farsikde.org (Arash Zeini) Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002 20:21:28 +0330 Subject: [Mailman-i18n] RTL and BiDi In-Reply-To: <15778.54799.506176.705244@gargle.gargle.HOWL> References: <200210071306.06076.a.zeini@farsikde.org> <15778.54799.506176.705244@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <200210082021.28276.a.zeini@farsikde.org> On Tuesday 08 October 2002 16:26, Barry A. Warsaw wrote: > >>>>> "MvL" =3D=3D Martin v L=F6wis wr= ites: > > MvL> I'd recommend to add Farsi as a language to mailman, and take > MvL> no additional steps for RTL. I still think it would work out > MvL> just fine. > > I concur with Martin. I would recommend using Mailman 2.1 from cvs. > I'm going to be working toward beta4 this week, so expect checkins and > fixes. If you're not comfortable with cvs, then definitely use > MM2.1b3. No problem. I can use cvs. I will have to see. > You should be able to follow the instructions in README-I18N.en and > the examples in Defaults.py.in, the templates directory, and the > messages directory to figure out what you'd need to add. It should be > fairly straightforward to get the infrastructure in place, and this > list can certainly help with details. Again no problem. I would also strongly recommend that you take in KBabel= into=20 the README file, as I think that working POT concept without KBabel is a=20 mental turtor :) I may be able to give you some instructions to include in the README file= on=20 how to use KBabel. It is defenitly the supreme way of POTing :) > As for whether Pipermail can handle it, that's a good question. > There's a patch on SF for improving the i18n of Pipermail which I > intend to look at today: > > http://sf.net/tracker/index.php?func=3Ddetail&aid=3D594771&group_id=3D1= 03&atid=3D30 >0103 > > Just be aware that time is running out for MM2.1. I'm going to get > this sucker out by the end of the year (if not before) if I have to > setup a caffeine IV drip and and hack in the shower. :) If the BiDi > changes are extensive -- and I hope/expect they won't be -- we'll have > to postpone them to the next release. OK, here I would say don't wait for us. We are very busy with the transla= tion=20 of KDE and other farsification issues, but we will try our Best to get th= is=20 thing going as soon as possible.=20 I will keep you and the list updated. I need to make some test first. Arash --=20 The FarsiKDE Project http://www.farsikde.org From a.zeini@farsikde.org Tue Oct 8 17:52:58 2002 From: a.zeini@farsikde.org (Arash Zeini) Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002 20:22:58 +0330 Subject: [Mailman-i18n] RTL and BiDi In-Reply-To: <15778.54995.226582.561084@gargle.gargle.HOWL> References: <200210071306.06076.a.zeini@farsikde.org> <200210081555.07078.a.zeini@farsikde.org> <15778.54995.226582.561084@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <200210082022.58665.a.zeini@farsikde.org> --------------Boundary-00=_AK9OL01CXZ5RAV8XFXSC Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Tuesday 08 October 2002 16:30, Barry A. Warsaw wrote: > >>>>> "AZ" =3D=3D Arash Zeini writes: > > AZ> I am attaching a sample HTML file to demonstrate this. The > AZ> socon para doesn't have the dir attribute and hence is not > AZ> positioned correctly and the flow of the sentence is not > AZ> correct as well. > > I didn't see any attachments. > -Barry Ahhhhhhhhhh. Here goes the attachment. Greetings Arash --=20 The FarsiKDE Project http://www.farsikde.org --------------Boundary-00=_AK9OL01CXZ5RAV8XFXSC Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"; name="testRTL.html" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="testRTL.html" PCFET0NUWVBFIEhUTUwgUFVCTElDICItLy9XM0MvL0RURCBIVE1MIDQuMDEgVHJhbnNpdGlvbmFs Ly9FTiI+Cgo8aHRtbD4KCTxoZWFkPgoJCTx0aXRsZT5XZWxjb21lIHRvIEZhcnNpS0RFITwvdGl0 bGU+CgkJPG1ldGEgaHR0cC1lcXVpdj0iQ29udGVudC1MYW5ndWFnZSIgY29udGVudD0iZmEiPgoJ CTxtZXRhIGh0dHAtZXF1aXY9IkNvbnRlbnQtVHlwZSIgY29udGVudD0idGV4dC9odG1sOyBjaGFy c2V0PVVURi04Ij4KCQk8bWV0YSBuYW1lPSJrZXl3b3JkcyIgY29udGVudD0iTGludXgsIElyYW4s IExpbnV4IElyYW4sIEtERSwgRmFyc2ksIEZhcnNpIEtERSwgS0RFIEZhcnNpLCBmYXJzaWtkZSwK aXJhbmtkZSI+CgkJPGxpbmsgcmVsPSJzdHlsZXNoZWV0IiB0eXBlPSJ0ZXh0L2NzcyIgaHJlZj0i ZmFyc2lrZGUuY3NzIj4KCQk8bGluayByZWw9InNob3J0Y3V0IGljb24iIGhyZWY9ImZhdmljb24u aWNvIj4KCTwvaGVhZD4KCQo8Ym9keT4KICAgICAgICAgICAgCgkJPHAgZGlyPSJSVEwiPiAgICAg ICAgICAgIAoJCTxzcGFuIGxhbmc9ImZhIj4K2YXYrduM2LcgPHN0cm9uZz5LREU8L3N0cm9uZz4g 2YrZg+KAjCDZhdit2YrYtyDar9ix2KfZgdmK2YPbjCDYsdmI2YXZitiy24zigIwg77uX77qq77qt 77qX77uj77uo77qqINio2LHYp9uM4oCMINin2YrYs9iq2q/Yp9mH2YfYp9uM4oCMINmD2KfYsduM 4oCMIO+7n++7tO+7qO+7ru+7m++6siDvu60g2YrZiNmG2YrZg9iz4oCMINin2LPYquKAjCDZg9mH 4oCMINmF2KrZhiDYotmG4oCMINiv2LEg2K/Ys9iq2LHYs+KAjCDZh9mF2q/Yp9mG4oCMINmC2LHY p9ixINiv2KfYsdivIAooPGEgY2xhc3M9InRleHQiIGhyZWY9Imh0dHA6Ly93d3cub3BlbnNvdXJj ZS5vcmciPm9wZW4gc291cmNlPC9hPikuIArZhdit24zYtyA8c3Ryb25nPktERTwvc3Ryb25nPiDv upHvuo4g77uj77uu77uT77uY77u077qWIO+6l++7pO+6ju+7oSDYs9mH2YjZhNiq4oCMINin2LPY qtmB2KfYr9mH4oCMINio2LHYp9uM4oCM2YPYp9ix2KjYsdiMINmD2KfYsdii2YrbjOKAjCDZhdmG 2K3YtdixINio2YHYsdivIO+7reKAjCDYt9ix2KfYrduM4oCMINis2LDYp9io4oCMINqv2LHYp9mB 2YrZg9uMIO+6re+6jeKAjCDvupHvuo4g2YHZhuKAjNii2YjYsduM4oCMINm+2YrYtNix2YHYqtmH 4oCMINmF2YjYrNmI2K8g2K/YsQrvu6PvuqTvu7Tvu4LigIwg2LnYp9mF2YTigIwg77uf77u077uo 77uu77ub77qyIO+7rSDZitmI2YbZitmD2LMg77qX77qu77ub77u077qQIO+7o++7sO+7m++7qO+6 quKAjC4KPC9zcGFuPjwvcD4gICAgICAgICAgICAKCQkgICAgICAgICAgICAgCgkJPHA+CgkJPHNw YW4+CtmF2K3bjNi3IDxzdHJvbmc+S0RFPC9zdHJvbmc+INmK2YPigIwg2b7YsdmI2pjZh+KAjNuM 4oCMINin2YrZhtiq2LHZhtiq24zigIwg2KfYs9iq4oCMINmD2YfigIwg2KfYsiDZh9ixINmG2LjY sSDYr9ixINin2K7YqtmK2KfYsSDZh9mF2q/Yp9mG4oCMINmC2LHYp9ixINiv2KfYsdivINmIINiv 2LEg2K3Yp9mE4oCMINit2KfYttixINio2LHYsdmI24zigIwg2KfZitmG2KrYsdmG2Kog4oCM2K/Y sSDYrdin2YTigIwg2KfZhtis2KfZheKAjCDZiCDZvtmK2LTYsdmB2KrigIwK2KfYs9iqLiDYp9mB 2LHYp9iv24zigIwg2YPZh+KAjCDYqtmF2KfZitmE4oCMINio2YfigIwg2YXYtNin2LHZg9iq4oCM 2Iwg2YXYqNin2K3Yq9mH4oCMINmIINmH2YXZg9in2LHbjOKAjCDYr9ixINin2YrZhuKAjCDYstmF 2YrZhtmH4oCMINiv2KfYtNiq2YfigIwK2KjYp9i02YbYryDZhduM4oCM2KrZiNin2YbZhtiv2K/Y sSDZhNmK2LPYquKAjCDZvtiz2KrigIwg2KfZhNmD2KrYsdmI2YbZitmD24zigIzYjCDar9ix2YjZ h9mH2KfbjOKAjCDYrtio2LHbjOKAjCDZiCDZitinINmD2KfZhtin2YTigIwg2YXYsdio2YjYt9mH 4oCMINiv2LEg2LPZitiz2KrZheKAjCDar9mB2Krar9mI24zigIwg2KjZitmG4oCM2KfZhNmF2YTZ hNuM4oCMIChJUkMpINir2KjYquKAjCDZhtin2YXigIwg2YbZhdmI2K/ZhyDigIzZiCDYtNix2YPY quKAjCDZhtmF2KfZitmG2K8uCjwvc3Bhbj48L3A+CiAgCjwvYm9keT4gICAgICAgICAgICAKPC9o dG1sPiAgICAgICAgICAgIAo= --------------Boundary-00=_AK9OL01CXZ5RAV8XFXSC-- From barry@python.org Tue Oct 8 18:23:55 2002 From: barry@python.org (Barry A. Warsaw) Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002 13:23:55 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-i18n] RTL and BiDi References: <200210071306.06076.a.zeini@farsikde.org> <15778.54799.506176.705244@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <200210082021.28276.a.zeini@farsikde.org> Message-ID: <15779.5291.695679.304344@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "AZ" == Arash Zeini writes: AZ> Again no problem. I would also strongly recommend that you AZ> take in KBabel into the README file, as I think that working AZ> POT concept without KBabel is a mental turtor :) I may be able AZ> to give you some instructions to include in the README file on AZ> how to use KBabel. It is defenitly the supreme way of POTing AZ> :) Of course, I'm an old emacshead so po-mode works well for me, but I just fired up KBabel and it seems nice too. Then again, I'm a monolinguist (various high school and college language courses notwithstanding) so I don't actually /do/ much translating. I've added a short reference to it in the README-I18N.en file, but anything more you can provide will be appreciated. AZ> OK, here I would say don't wait for us. We are very busy with AZ> the translation of KDE and other farsification issues, but we AZ> will try our Best to get this thing going as soon as possible. Excellent. I fully expect there to be micro releases of the 2.1 branch and I wouldn't have too much qualms adding non-intrusive support for Farsi in a micro release. AZ> I will keep you and the list updated. I need to make some test AZ> first. Great, thanks. -Barry From barry@python.org Tue Oct 8 18:25:43 2002 From: barry@python.org (Barry A. Warsaw) Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002 13:25:43 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-i18n] RTL and BiDi References: <200210071306.06076.a.zeini@farsikde.org> <200210081555.07078.a.zeini@farsikde.org> <15778.54995.226582.561084@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <200210082022.58665.a.zeini@farsikde.org> Message-ID: <15779.5399.891639.188193@yyz.zope.com> Near as I can tell, this looks great to me in Moz 1.1. -Barry From a.zeini@farsikde.org Tue Oct 8 18:48:25 2002 From: a.zeini@farsikde.org (Arash Zeini) Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002 21:18:25 +0330 Subject: [Mailman-i18n] RTL and BiDi In-Reply-To: <15779.5399.891639.188193@yyz.zope.com> References: <200210071306.06076.a.zeini@farsikde.org> <200210082022.58665.a.zeini@farsikde.org> <15779.5399.891639.188193@yyz.zope.com> Message-ID: <200210082118.25547.a.zeini@farsikde.org> --------------Boundary-00=_P4CO7XGUZFQ7TOI1F2CU Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Tuesday 08 October 2002 20:55, Barry A. Warsaw wrote: > Near as I can tell, this looks great to me in Moz 1.1. > > -Barry OK, my mistake. I should have choosen a shorter sentence to demonstrate t= hat=20 it sticks to the left.=20 Attached is a new example.=20 Arash --=20 The FarsiKDE Project http://www.farsikde.org --------------Boundary-00=_P4CO7XGUZFQ7TOI1F2CU Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"; name="testRTL.html" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="testRTL.html" PCFET0NUWVBFIEhUTUwgUFVCTElDICItLy9XM0MvL0RURCBIVE1MIDQuMDEgVHJhbnNpdGlvbmFs Ly9FTiI+Cgo8aHRtbD4KCTxoZWFkPgoJCTx0aXRsZT5XZWxjb21lIHRvIEZhcnNpS0RFITwvdGl0 bGU+CgkJPG1ldGEgaHR0cC1lcXVpdj0iQ29udGVudC1MYW5ndWFnZSIgY29udGVudD0iZmEiPgoJ CTxtZXRhIGh0dHAtZXF1aXY9IkNvbnRlbnQtVHlwZSIgY29udGVudD0idGV4dC9odG1sOyBjaGFy c2V0PVVURi04Ij4KCQk8bWV0YSBuYW1lPSJrZXl3b3JkcyIgY29udGVudD0iTGludXgsIElyYW4s IExpbnV4IElyYW4sIEtERSwgRmFyc2ksIEZhcnNpIEtERSwgS0RFIEZhcnNpLCBmYXJzaWtkZSwK aXJhbmtkZSI+CgkJPGxpbmsgcmVsPSJzdHlsZXNoZWV0IiB0eXBlPSJ0ZXh0L2NzcyIgaHJlZj0i ZmFyc2lrZGUuY3NzIj4KCQk8bGluayByZWw9InNob3J0Y3V0IGljb24iIGhyZWY9ImZhdmljb24u aWNvIj4KCTwvaGVhZD4KCQo8Ym9keT4KICAgICAgICAgICAgCgkJPHAgZGlyPSJSVEwiPiAgICAg ICAgICAgIAoJCTxzcGFuIGxhbmc9ImZhIj4K2YXYrduM2LcgPHN0cm9uZz5LREU8L3N0cm9uZz4g 2YrZg+KAjCDZhdit2YrYtyDar9ix2KfZgdmK2YPbjCDYsdmI2YXZitiy24zigIwg77uX77qq77qt 77qX77uj77uo77qqINio2LHYp9uM4oCMINin2YrYs9iq2q/Yp9mH2YfYp9uM4oCMINmD2KfYsduM 4oCMIO+7n++7tO+7qO+7ru+7m++6siDvu60g2YrZiNmG2YrZg9iz4oCMINin2LPYquKAjCDZg9mH 4oCMINmF2KrZhiDYotmG4oCMINiv2LEg2K/Ys9iq2LHYs+KAjCDZh9mF2q/Yp9mG4oCMINmC2LHY p9ixINiv2KfYsdivIAooPGEgY2xhc3M9InRleHQiIGhyZWY9Imh0dHA6Ly93d3cub3BlbnNvdXJj ZS5vcmciPm9wZW4gc291cmNlPC9hPikuIArZhdit24zYtyA8c3Ryb25nPktERTwvc3Ryb25nPiDv upHvuo4g77uj77uu77uT77uY77u077qWIO+6l++7pO+6ju+7oSDYs9mH2YjZhNiq4oCMINin2LPY qtmB2KfYr9mH4oCMINio2LHYp9uM4oCM2YPYp9ix2KjYsdiMINmD2KfYsdii2YrbjOKAjCDZhdmG 2K3YtdixINio2YHYsdivIO+7reKAjCDYt9ix2KfYrduM4oCMINis2LDYp9io4oCMINqv2LHYp9mB 2YrZg9uMIO+6re+6jeKAjCDvupHvuo4g2YHZhuKAjNii2YjYsduM4oCMINm+2YrYtNix2YHYqtmH 4oCMINmF2YjYrNmI2K8g2K/YsQrvu6PvuqTvu7Tvu4LigIwg2LnYp9mF2YTigIwg77uf77u077uo 77uu77ub77qyIO+7rSDZitmI2YbZitmD2LMg77qX77qu77ub77u077qQIO+7o++7sO+7m++7qO+6 quKAjC4KPC9zcGFuPjwvcD4gICAgICAgICAgICAKCQkgICAgICAgICAgICAgCgkJPHA+CgkJPHNw YW4+CtmF2K3bjNi3IDxzdHJvbmc+S0RFPC9zdHJvbmc+INmK2YPigIwg2b7YsdmI2pjZh+KAjNuM 4oCMINin2YrZhtiq2LHZhtiq24zigIwg2KfYs9iq4oCMINmD2YfigIwg2KfYsiDZh9ixINmG2LjY sSDYr9ixINin2K7YqtmK2KfYsSDZh9mF2q/Yp9mG4oCMINmC2LHYp9ixINiv2KfYsdivCjwvc3Bh bj48L3A+CiAgCjwvYm9keT4gICAgICAgICAgICAKPC9odG1sPiAgICAgICAgICAgIAo= --------------Boundary-00=_P4CO7XGUZFQ7TOI1F2CU-- From a.zeini@farsikde.org Tue Oct 8 18:51:11 2002 From: a.zeini@farsikde.org (Arash Zeini) Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002 21:21:11 +0330 Subject: [Mailman-i18n] RTL and BiDi In-Reply-To: <15779.5291.695679.304344@gargle.gargle.HOWL> References: <200210071306.06076.a.zeini@farsikde.org> <200210082021.28276.a.zeini@farsikde.org> <15779.5291.695679.304344@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <200210082121.11771.a.zeini@farsikde.org> On Tuesday 08 October 2002 20:53, Barry A. Warsaw wrote: > >>>>> "AZ" =3D=3D Arash Zeini writes: > > AZ> Again no problem. I would also strongly recommend that you > AZ> take in KBabel into the README file, as I think that working > AZ> POT concept without KBabel is a mental turtor :) I may be able > AZ> to give you some instructions to include in the README file on > AZ> how to use KBabel. It is defenitly the supreme way of POTing > AZ> :) > > Of course, I'm an old emacshead so po-mode works well for me, but I > just fired up KBabel and it seems nice too. Then again, I'm a > monolinguist (various high school and college language courses > notwithstanding) so I don't actually /do/ much translating. > I've added a short reference to it in the README-I18N.en file, but > anything more you can provide will be appreciated. I will mail a small instruction set to you. Maybe you can use it. > AZ> OK, here I would say don't wait for us. We are very busy with > AZ> the translation of KDE and other farsification issues, but we > AZ> will try our Best to get this thing going as soon as possible. > > Excellent. I fully expect there to be micro releases of the 2.1 > branch and I wouldn't have too much qualms adding non-intrusive > support for Farsi in a micro release. It can not get better. Thanks. [...] Arash --=20 The FarsiKDE Project http://www.farsikde.org From loewis@informatik.hu-berlin.de Tue Oct 8 19:29:04 2002 From: loewis@informatik.hu-berlin.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-1?q?L=F6wis?=) Date: 08 Oct 2002 20:29:04 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-i18n] RTL and BiDi In-Reply-To: <15779.5399.891639.188193@yyz.zope.com> References: <200210071306.06076.a.zeini@farsikde.org> <200210081555.07078.a.zeini@farsikde.org> <15778.54995.226582.561084@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <200210082022.58665.a.zeini@farsikde.org> <15779.5399.891639.188193@yyz.zope.com> Message-ID: barry@python.org (Barry A. Warsaw) writes: > Near as I can tell, this looks great to me in Moz 1.1. I think Arash is pointing out that the first paragraph right-adjusts in the Window, whereas the second paragraph left-adjusts. If you could read Farsi, you would probably also notice that the order of words is incorrect in the second paragraph, since the first word is on the left end of the line, so if you read RTL, you start in the middle of a sentence (depending on where your browser breaks the lines). In the first paragraph, all is fine: the first word is on the right end of the first line, and stays there no matter how you resize the window. This is caused by the dir="rtl" of the P element. So, in short, you do need the dir attribute - the browser does not automatically set the directionality of the paragraph. For Mailman, this means you need to augment all templates appropriately - I guess this is usually done on the tag. If you ever generate the HTML tag without a customization hook (e.g. as in htmlformat.Document.Format), then this might cause a problem: you will need to inject "DIR='RTL'" there somehow. Alternatively, you'll have to move the dir attribute further down, to, say, TITLE and BODY. Regards, Martin From barry@python.org Tue Oct 8 19:42:01 2002 From: barry@python.org (Barry A. Warsaw) Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002 14:42:01 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-i18n] RTL and BiDi References: <200210071306.06076.a.zeini@farsikde.org> <200210081555.07078.a.zeini@farsikde.org> <15778.54995.226582.561084@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <200210082022.58665.a.zeini@farsikde.org> <15779.5399.891639.188193@yyz.zope.com> Message-ID: <15779.9977.899962.809699@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "MvL" =3D=3D Martin v L=F6wis wr= ites: >> Near as I can tell, this looks great to me in Moz 1.1. MvL> I think Arash is pointing out that the first paragraph MvL> right-adjusts in the Window, whereas the second paragraph MvL> left-adjusts. MvL> If you could read Farsi, you would probably also notice that MvL> the order of words is incorrect in the second paragraph, MvL> since the first word is on the left end of the line, so if MvL> you read RTL, you start in the middle of a sentence MvL> (depending on where your browser breaks the lines). I see that now, thanks. Boy, Martin, I didn't know you read Farsi too! :) MvL> In the first paragraph, all is fine: the first word is on the MvL> right end of the first line, and stays there no matter how MvL> you resize the window. This is caused by the dir=3D"rtl" of th= e MvL> P element. MvL> So, in short, you do need the dir attribute - the browser MvL> does not automatically set the directionality of the MvL> paragraph. MvL> For Mailman, this means you need to augment all templates MvL> appropriately - I guess this is usually done on the MvL> tag. If you ever generate the HTML tag without a MvL> customization hook (e.g. as in htmlformat.Document.Format), MvL> then this might cause a problem: you will need to inject MvL> "DIR=3D'RTL'" there somehow. Alternatively, you'll have to mov= e MvL> the dir attribute further down, to, say, TITLE and BODY. The templates should be easy, since you'd just add those to the fa version. Here's a sketch of what Arash might want to hack together for htmlformat.Document.Format(): - Add a dictionary to Defaults.py.in called LC_DIRECTIONS, where the key is a language code and the value is a flag. I don't want to change the interface for LC_DESCRIPTIONS. - Add a function to Utils.py that returns the direction for a given language code by looking up the language in LC_DIRECTIONS. The default should be LTR so if there's no key in the dict, it's LTR. - Add the appropriate dir attribute to the appropriate tag in Format() based on the lookup. You probably should not add a dir attribute for LTR. That may be all you need, although check the archiver for other places where might be hardcoded. -Barry From a.zeini@farsikde.org Tue Oct 8 22:00:30 2002 From: a.zeini@farsikde.org (Arash Zeini) Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 00:30:30 +0330 Subject: [Mailman-i18n] RTL and BiDi In-Reply-To: References: <200210071306.06076.a.zeini@farsikde.org> <15779.5399.891639.188193@yyz.zope.com> Message-ID: <200210090030.30329.a.zeini@farsikde.org> On Tuesday 08 October 2002 21:59, Martin v. L=F6wis wrote: > barry@python.org (Barry A. Warsaw) writes: > > Near as I can tell, this looks great to me in Moz 1.1. > > I think Arash is pointing out that the first paragraph right-adjusts > in the Window, whereas the second paragraph left-adjusts. [...] This is exactly what I was trying to point out. --=20 The FarsiKDE Project http://www.farsikde.org From pinard@iro.umontreal.ca Fri Oct 11 15:47:26 2002 From: pinard@iro.umontreal.ca (=?iso-8859-1?q?Fran=E7ois?= Pinard) Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 10:47:26 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-i18n] 'Funny' characters in real names? In-Reply-To: (loewis@informatik.hu-berlin.de's message of "18 Sep 2002 09:52:38 +0200") References: <15746.14309.516823.293632@anthem.wooz.org> <3D8248C5.5040205@debian.org> <15746.31280.719924.780772@anthem.wooz.org> <15749.2812.524261.962949@anthem.wooz.org> <15751.38782.74609.163241@anthem.wooz.org> <3D879D2B.5080600@debian.org> <15751.40940.902092.18578@anthem.wooz.org> <35199.199.228.142.9.1032331085.squirrel@www.sindominio.net> Message-ID: [Martin v. Löwis] > I'm personally quite unhappy with iso-8859-15: it was invented at a time > when Unicode was already there, and the world didn't really need any more > character sets. And there is also these MES charsets, too. I did not monitor them closely, but they are surely going to reach us one of these days... While many people see new 8-bit charsets as unwelcome, they fill a need. Unicode bears with it a few myths (simplicity, orthogonality, universality) which attract people at first, and which are also fed by incomplete or naive implementations, and fanatic proponents. But deeper one dives, deeper one realises that Unicode is quite complex after all, and the origin of a new lucrative industry where only Unicode specialists have a privileged niche. In real practice, many see that Unicode is not so democratic. The handling of strings is fundamental in computer science, nations invent new _simple_ character sets as a way of not loosing control of their own national computer industries over foreign specialists for artificial complexity. My usual explanations are fantasies. Supposing UTF-8 is not coincident with ASCII for U0000-U007F, imagine how Americans would react is asked to give up using ASCII. Another simple fantasy: supposing Microsoft did not push for Unicode, try figuring a place on this planet where Unicode would be prominent or prevailing today. It does not take a lot of Zen meditation to see that Unicode might be perceived in some foreign countries as an American threat to the local autonomy, as far as computers as concerned. Do you feel like fantasising further? Imagine that Americans (this holds for French, German, Vietnamese, and all those who got a special treat in Unicode with pre-combined characters) were asked that _some_ letters in their alphabet be only representable by combinable sequences, so Americans are now stuck all over with a variable number of bits per English character. Do you think Unicode would stand _any_ chance of ever being accepted in America? (or France, Germany, etc.) Such thoughts might help us understand why 8-bits characters are still going to multiply on this planet. -- François Pinard http://www.iro.umontreal.ca/~pinard From psancho@posta.unizar.es Wed Oct 16 10:11:21 2002 From: psancho@posta.unizar.es (Pilar Sancho) Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 11:11:21 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-i18n] Mailman Spanish Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.0.20021016110857.02a2cbc0@posta.unizar.es> --=====================_11626488==_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I would like to recieve the Spanish translation modules. I am using=20 mailman-2.0.13-1 version on a RedHat 7.3 distribution. Thanks in advance, -- ________________________________________ Pilar Sancho Moreno Servicio de Inform=E1tica - =C1rea de Sistemas. Universidad de Zaragoza Tf: 976 761000 ext 3170 mailto:psancho@posta.unizar.es ________________________________________ --=====================_11626488==_.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I would like to recieve the Spanish translation modules. I am using mailman-2.0.13-1
version on a RedHat 7.3 distribution.

Thanks in advance,

--
________________________________________
Pilar Sancho Moreno
Servicio de Inform=E1tica - =C1rea de Sistemas.
Universidad de Zaragoza
Tf: 976 761000 ext 3170
mailto:psancho@posta.unizar.es
________________________________________ --=====================_11626488==_.ALT-- From loewis@informatik.hu-berlin.de Wed Oct 16 10:18:40 2002 From: loewis@informatik.hu-berlin.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-1?q?L=F6wis?=) Date: 16 Oct 2002 11:18:40 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-i18n] Mailman Spanish In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.0.20021016110857.02a2cbc0@posta.unizar.es> References: <5.0.0.25.0.20021016110857.02a2cbc0@posta.unizar.es> Message-ID: Pilar Sancho writes: > I would like to recieve the Spanish translation modules. I am using > mailman-2.0.13-1 version on a RedHat 7.3 distribution. Dear Pilar Sancho, Mailman 2.0 does not support translated pages. To use internationalization, you have to use Mailman 2.1, which has not been released, yet. If you use the most recent Beta versions (available from http://sourceforge.net/projects/mailman), you find that Spanish translations are included. HTH, Martin From cioloweb@tiscali.it Mon Oct 21 21:58:59 2002 From: cioloweb@tiscali.it (Ciolo_-^DusT^-_WebMaster) Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 22:58:59 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-i18n] I need italian traslation Message-ID: <006101c27944$ae282a00$649cd33e@ottobrerosso> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_005E_01C27955.714C44C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I need italian traslation of web interface... and msg posted to = subscriber in welcome ------=_NextPart_000_005E_01C27955.714C44C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I need italian traslation of web = interface... and=20 msg posted to subscriber in = welcome
------=_NextPart_000_005E_01C27955.714C44C0-- From danny@terweij.nl Mon Oct 21 22:24:39 2002 From: danny@terweij.nl (Danny Terweij) Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 23:24:39 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-i18n] I need italian traslation References: <006101c27944$ae282a00$649cd33e@ottobrerosso> Message-ID: <03d801c27948$439a5830$1e00a8c0@onsnet.org> >From: Ciolo_-^DusT^-_WebMaster >I need italian traslation of web interface... and msg posted to subscriber in welcome Italian i18n is already created. Witch version are you using? Danny From danny@terweij.nl Mon Oct 21 22:49:40 2002 From: danny@terweij.nl (Danny Terweij) Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 23:49:40 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-i18n] I need italian traslation References: <006101c27944$ae282a00$649cd33e@ottobrerosso> <03d801c27948$439a5830$1e00a8c0@onsnet.org> <006b01c2794a$a3fb6e60$649cd33e@ottobrerosso> Message-ID: <040e01c2794b$c281a6a0$1e00a8c0@onsnet.org> From: "Ciolo_-^DusT^-_WebMaster" > the one that is with redhat 8.0 I think 2.0.13 Only versions 2.1.x (are beta's) are i18n ready. Upgrade to 2.1b2/3 for all translations. > From: "Danny Terweij" > > >From: Ciolo_-^DusT^-_WebMaster > > >I need italian traslation of web interface... and msg posted to > subscriber > > in welcome > > > > Italian i18n is already created. > > Witch version are you using? Danny From barry@python.org Fri Oct 25 23:34:58 2002 From: barry@python.org (Barry A. Warsaw) Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 18:34:58 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-i18n] I'm going to cut MM2.1b4 in a few hours Message-ID: <15801.50962.600970.92713@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Folks, I'm going to cut MM2.1b4 later tonight. I figure it's going to be in about 4 or 5 hours from now (say around midnight -0400). I'm going to update python.org to the latest snapshot and watch it for a few hours while we have a little dinner party :). If everything looks okay, I'll roll out the beta. There have been tons of patches since 2.1b3 so even if things aren't perfect yet (ha ha) the new beta is still overdue. I'm letting i18n'ers know because I'm updating the catalogs right now. Which means you have about 4 hours to make last minute updates for 2.1b4 or send them to me to check in. It's always possible I'll get side tracked and you'll get a reprieve of course. :) -Barry From tkikuchi@is.kochi-u.ac.jp Sat Oct 26 13:03:06 2002 From: tkikuchi@is.kochi-u.ac.jp (Tokio Kikuchi) Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2002 21:03:06 +0900 Subject: [Mailman-i18n] I'm going to cut MM2.1b4 in a few hours References: <15801.50962.600970.92713@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <3DBA847A.8010905@is.kochi-u.ac.jp> Is it too late ? It was already weekend here in Japan. Please download the latest japanese translation from http://mm.tkikuchi.net/mailman-2.1.ja/mailman.i18n.ja.tar.gz Barry A. Warsaw wrote: > Folks, > > I'm going to cut MM2.1b4 later tonight. I figure it's going to be in > about 4 or 5 hours from now (say around midnight -0400). I'm going to > update python.org to the latest snapshot and watch it for a few hours > while we have a little dinner party :). If everything looks okay, > I'll roll out the beta. There have been tons of patches since 2.1b3 > so even if things aren't perfect yet (ha ha) the new beta is still > overdue. > > I'm letting i18n'ers know because I'm updating the catalogs right > now. Which means you have about 4 hours to make last minute updates > for 2.1b4 or send them to me to check in. > > It's always possible I'll get side tracked and you'll get a reprieve > of course. :) > > -Barry > > _______________________________________________ > Mailman-i18n mailing list > Mailman-i18n@python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-i18n > > -- Tokio Kikuchi, tkikuchi@ is.kochi-u.ac.jp http://weather.is.kochi-u.ac.jp/ From danny@terweij.nl Sun Oct 27 00:54:59 2002 From: danny@terweij.nl (Danny Terweij) Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2002 01:54:59 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-i18n] Dutch language and mailman 2.1b4 Message-ID: <0bbf01c27d4b$18383070$1e00a8c0@onsnet.org> Hi all, I am translating now some "errors" at the language file so the mailman.po/mo is working with the b4 version. I announce when i am ready. (it will be a quick update, free of error, strange translations and some new/fixed translations) Danny Terweij Dutch -Translator From cerdil@ttnet.net.tr Mon Oct 28 12:33:40 2002 From: cerdil@ttnet.net.tr (shawn Erdil) Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 14:33:40 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-i18n] i have a charset problem Message-ID: <002201c27e7e$40ca6420$6501a8c0@coco> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_001F_01C27E8F.022557A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-9" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable i'm having problem with the Turkish charset like =E7,=F0,=FE = characters. "de###&87" =20 i'm using mailman 2.06 at the moment, and it will be some time = before i switch to 2.1 versions. although i have changed the settings in the DEfaults.py, i can't = straighten out the ISO-8859-9 encoding to show right , in the post. have you found a solution for the charset problem ? thank you shawn=20 ------=_NextPart_000_001F_01C27E8F.022557A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-9" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 
i'm having  problem with the  = Turkish =20 charset  like  =E7,=F0,=FE    =20 characters.       =20 "de&#2###&87"  
i'm  using mailman  2.06  at = the  moment,=20 and it  will be  some time  before  i  = switch =20 to  2.1  versions.
 
although  i  have  changed the settings  = in =20 the  DEfaults.py, i  can't  straighten  out =20 the ISO-8859-9   encoding  to  show  right = ,
in  the  post.
 
 
have  you  found  a  solution = for =20 the  charset  problem  ?
 
 
thank  you
 
shawn
 
 
 
------=_NextPart_000_001F_01C27E8F.022557A0-- From loewis@informatik.hu-berlin.de Mon Oct 28 12:56:59 2002 From: loewis@informatik.hu-berlin.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-1?q?L=F6wis?=) Date: 28 Oct 2002 13:56:59 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-i18n] i have a charset problem In-Reply-To: <002201c27e7e$40ca6420$6501a8c0@coco> References: <002201c27e7e$40ca6420$6501a8c0@coco> Message-ID: "shawn Erdil" writes: > have you found a solution for the charset problem ? I think you will have serious difficulties with such things in Mailman 2.0; you should try Mailman 2.1 instead. Regards, Martin From keeper@odi.com.br Mon Oct 28 23:52:29 2002 From: keeper@odi.com.br (keeper@odi.com.br) Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 21:52:29 -0200 Subject: [Mailman-i18n] Brazilian traslation Message-ID: <1035849149.3dbdcdbd16651@webmail2.odi.com.br> Hello all, I'm looking for a protuguese version of mailman. Anyone know where i can find it? Angelo From barry@python.org Tue Oct 29 00:41:11 2002 From: barry@python.org (Barry A. Warsaw) Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 19:41:11 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-i18n] Welcome to Mailman 2.1 Message-ID: <15805.55591.47010.608367@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Hi folks, Just a quick note to let you know that I moved these four lists to Mailman 2.1b4+. Things seem to be working okay, but of course, now the fun begins. I'll be watching the logs, but please do let me know if you notice anything strange. -Barry P.S. to mailman-users-owner... Hope you like the new moderation interface! From che@debian.org Tue Oct 29 01:16:27 2002 From: che@debian.org (Ben Gertzfield) Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 17:16:27 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-i18n] Welcome to Mailman 2.1 In-Reply-To: <15805.55591.47010.608367@gargle.gargle.HOWL> References: <15805.55591.47010.608367@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <3DBDE16B.3020509@debian.org> Barry A. Warsaw wrote: >Just a quick note to let you know that I moved these four lists to >Mailman 2.1b4+. Things seem to be working okay, but of course, now >the fun begins. I'll be watching the logs, but please do let me know >if you notice anything strange. > Barry, this being the i18n list and all, shouldn't more languages than US English be enabled here? ;) Heck, I think users should be able to have any language they want on any of the Mailman lists.. Ben From barry@python.org Tue Oct 29 03:34:04 2002 From: barry@python.org (Barry A. Warsaw) Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 22:34:04 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-i18n] Welcome to Mailman 2.1 References: <15805.55591.47010.608367@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <3DBDE16B.3020509@debian.org> Message-ID: <15806.428.793814.661653@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "BG" == Ben Gertzfield writes: >> Just a quick note to let you know that I moved these four lists >> to Mailman 2.1b4+. Things seem to be working okay, but of >> course, now the fun begins. I'll be watching the logs, but >> please do let me know if you notice anything strange. BG> Barry, this being the i18n list and all, shouldn't more BG> languages than US English be enabled here? ;) Absolutely! I meant to do that but got sidetracked. ;) BG> Heck, I think users should be able to have any language they BG> want on any of the Mailman lists.. Let's try it one at a time for now. It'll be interesting to see what python.org lets through. :) -Barry From Daniel.Buchmann@bibsys.no Tue Oct 29 06:34:21 2002 From: Daniel.Buchmann@bibsys.no (Daniel Buchmann) Date: 29 Oct 2002 07:34:21 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-i18n] Welcome to Mailman 2.1 In-Reply-To: <15806.428.793814.661653@gargle.gargle.HOWL> References: <15805.55591.47010.608367@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <15806.428.793814.661653@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <1035873263.2367.3.camel@fornax.bibsys.no> ---------------------- multipart/signed attachment On Tue, 2002-10-29 at 04:34, Barry A. Warsaw wrote: >=20 > BG> Barry, this being the i18n list and all, shouldn't more > BG> languages than US English be enabled here? ;) >=20 > Absolutely! I meant to do that but got sidetracked. ;) Yeah, that reminds me... on the create new list page and the admin page where languages are chosen, it should be possible to select 'em all in one click! :D And they should really also be sorted alphabetically... :) ---------------------- multipart/signed attachment A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-i18n/attachments/20021029/3789d081/attachment.bin ---------------------- multipart/signed attachment-- From che@debian.org Tue Oct 29 07:19:09 2002 From: che@debian.org (Ben Gertzfield) Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 23:19:09 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-i18n] Welcome to Mailman 2.1 In-Reply-To: <15805.55591.47010.608367@gargle.gargle.HOWL> References: <15805.55591.47010.608367@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <3DBDE16B.3020509@debian.org> <15806.428.793814.661653@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <3DBE366D.4020103@debian.org> Barry A. Warsaw wrote: > Absolutely! I meant to do that but got sidetracked. ;) OK! I went to the user options page and went through a number of languages to see what interfaces I got. To be extra mean to the page, I entered my real name with Japanese characters (from the US English page!) and the Unicode character references came through perfectly. Good job with that! Two issues: I selected Simplified Chinese as my interface at http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-i18n/che@debian.org and got: Bug in Mailman version 2.1b4+ We're sorry, we hit a bug! If you would like to help us identify the problem, please email a copy of this page to the webmaster for this site with a description of what happened. Thanks! Traceback: Traceback (most recent call last): File "/usr/local/mailman-2.1/scripts/driver", line 87, in run_main main() File "/usr/local/mailman-2.1/Mailman/Cgi/options.py", line 594, in main options_page(mlist, doc, user, cpuser, userlang, msg) File "/usr/local/mailman-2.1/Mailman/Cgi/options.py", line 616, in options_page fullname = Utils.uncanonstr(mlist.getMemberName(user), userlang) File "/usr/local/mailman-2.1/Mailman/Utils.py", line 768, in uncanonstr return s.encode(charset) LookupError: unknown encoding [snip] I wonder if I didn't confuse it with my Unicode real name.. want to give it a look, Barry? Other than that, looks pretty good. I think the Korean translation is a bit out of date (English peeks through here and there) but the Japanese one looks great! Ben From danny@terweij.nl Tue Oct 29 21:00:31 2002 From: danny@terweij.nl (Danny Terweij) Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 22:00:31 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-i18n] Help with Latest changes Message-ID: <117a01c27f8e$4bfc1350$1e00a8c0@onsnet.org> Hi, I see (new checkins) that many lines are changed at the mailman.po file (Bouncer Patch). How to merge the new mailman.po(latest cvs b4+) with my mailman-work.po(b4) ? I did serveral translations and i do not want it to be lost :( Danny Terweij Dutch - Translator From keeper@odi.com.br Tue Oct 29 21:18:33 2002 From: keeper@odi.com.br (keeper@odi.com.br) Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 19:18:33 -0200 Subject: [Mailman-i18n] Hello, Braziliam translation Message-ID: <1035926313.3dbefb29729c8@webmail2.odi.com.br> Hello, Can i have some directions to download the stable version with translations or if that does not exist the cvs version of mailman. Tks Angelo From barry@python.org Tue Oct 29 21:20:21 2002 From: barry@python.org (Barry A. Warsaw) Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 16:20:21 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-i18n] Help with Latest changes References: <117a01c27f8e$4bfc1350$1e00a8c0@onsnet.org> Message-ID: <15806.64405.807090.4465@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "DT" == Danny Terweij writes: DT> I see (new checkins) that many lines are changed at the DT> mailman.po file (Bouncer Patch). How to merge the new DT> mailman.po(latest cvs b4+) with my mailman-work.po(b4) ? I DT> did serveral translations and i do not want it to be lost :( Did you get CVS conflicts? Hopefully if so you didn't get a lot of them, but if you did you'll need to resolve them manually in an editor. Here's an entry from the cvs manual that helps explain the process of resolving conflicts: http://www.cvshome.org/docs/manual/cvs_10.html#SEC86 -Barry From danny@terweij.nl Tue Oct 29 21:39:53 2002 From: danny@terweij.nl (Danny Terweij) Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 22:39:53 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-i18n] Help with Latest changes References: <117a01c27f8e$4bfc1350$1e00a8c0@onsnet.org> <15806.64405.807090.4465@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <11a001c27f93$b7d8e440$1e00a8c0@onsnet.org> From: "Barry A. Warsaw" > Did you get CVS conflicts? Hopefully if so you didn't get a lot of > them, but if you did you'll need to resolve them manually in an > editor. Here's an entry from the cvs manual that helps explain the > process of resolving conflicts: > http://www.cvshome.org/docs/manual/cvs_10.html#SEC86 Well, this is what i do : Get the latest CVS version. Copy the mailman.po to /tmp/vertaal.po and i edit vertaal.po for translations. (I am editing with the Crimson Editor (win32)) Then i do : msgfmt vertaal.po cp vertaal.po /usr/local/mailman/messages/nl/LC_MESSAGES/mailman.po cp messages.mo /usr/local/mailman/messages/nl/LC_MESSAGES/mailman.mo But when a big change occurs at the CVS version then i do not know how to merge it.. (if there is a way). Maybe i do this at a wrong way.. but it works fine for me (till big changes as now). Danny. From barry@python.org Tue Oct 29 21:58:35 2002 From: barry@python.org (Barry A. Warsaw) Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 16:58:35 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-i18n] Help with Latest changes References: <117a01c27f8e$4bfc1350$1e00a8c0@onsnet.org> <15806.64405.807090.4465@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <11a001c27f93$b7d8e440$1e00a8c0@onsnet.org> Message-ID: <15807.1163.512185.158881@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "DT" == Danny Terweij writes: >> Did you get CVS conflicts? Hopefully if so you didn't get a >> lot of them, but if you did you'll need to resolve them >> manually in an editor. Here's an entry from the cvs manual >> that helps explain the process of resolving conflicts: >> http://www.cvshome.org/docs/manual/cvs_10.html#SEC86 DT> Well, this is what i do : Get the latest CVS version. Copy DT> the mailman.po to /tmp/vertaal.po and i edit vertaal.po for DT> translations. (I am editing with the Crimson Editor (win32)) DT> Then i do : msgfmt vertaal.po cp vertaal.po DT> /usr/local/mailman/messages/nl/LC_MESSAGES/mailman.po cp DT> messages.mo DT> /usr/local/mailman/messages/nl/LC_MESSAGES/mailman.mo DT> But when a big change occurs at the CVS version then i do not DT> know how to merge it.. (if there is a way). DT> Maybe i do this at a wrong way.. but it works fine for me DT> (till big changes as now). It's the "big changes" that are exactly the reason why you probably want to edit mailman.po in its cvs location. Those big changes usually boil down to easily resolvable differences that cvs can automatically merge for you. -Barry From danny@terweij.nl Tue Oct 29 22:05:25 2002 From: danny@terweij.nl (Danny Terweij) Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 23:05:25 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-i18n] Help with Latest changes References: <117a01c27f8e$4bfc1350$1e00a8c0@onsnet.org><15806.64405.807090.4465@gargle.gargle.HOWL><11a001c27f93$b7d8e440$1e00a8c0@onsnet.org> <15807.1163.512185.158881@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <11e101c27f97$489e0520$1e00a8c0@onsnet.org> From: "Barry A. Warsaw" > DT> Maybe i do this at a wrong way.. but it works fine for me > DT> (till big changes as now). > It's the "big changes" that are exactly the reason why you probably > want to edit mailman.po in its cvs location. Those big changes > usually boil down to easily resolvable differences that cvs can > automatically merge for you. Okay, so i must just edit the mailman.po file at the cvs location? Then my edit's and the new cvs chanhes are merged? Damn.. that's easy :) I am windows euh.. Microshit minded :) Okay, then i loose my latest changes and start over :) Danny Terweij. From barry@python.org Tue Oct 29 22:10:43 2002 From: barry@python.org (Barry A. Warsaw) Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 17:10:43 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-i18n] Help with Latest changes References: <117a01c27f8e$4bfc1350$1e00a8c0@onsnet.org> <15806.64405.807090.4465@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <11a001c27f93$b7d8e440$1e00a8c0@onsnet.org> <15807.1163.512185.158881@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <11e101c27f97$489e0520$1e00a8c0@onsnet.org> Message-ID: <15807.1891.25036.165111@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "DT" == Danny Terweij writes: DT> Okay, so i must just edit the mailman.po file at the cvs DT> location? Then my edit's and the new cvs chanhes are merged? Usually, yes. Once in a while you'll get conflicts that have to be manually resolved, but for this file, that should be extremely rare. DT> Damn.. that's easy :) I am windows euh.. Microshit minded :) I agree, that's a problem. :) DT> Okay, then i loose my latest changes and start over :) Maybe not! Just move your file back into its cvs location and do another cvs update. See if cvs can do the merge. -Barry From Daniel.Buchmann@bibsys.no Tue Oct 29 22:11:45 2002 From: Daniel.Buchmann@bibsys.no (Daniel Buchmann) Date: 29 Oct 2002 23:11:45 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-i18n] Help with Latest changes In-Reply-To: <15806.64405.807090.4465@gargle.gargle.HOWL> References: <117a01c27f8e$4bfc1350$1e00a8c0@onsnet.org> <15806.64405.807090.4465@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <1035929507.2322.1.camel@fornax.bibsys.no> ---------------------- multipart/signed attachment Here's another approach, that I think you might want to try, Danny: Merge your working catalog with the catalog Barry generated. You do this by using the msgmerge utility: msgmerge -o mailman.pot So if the file you are working on is called mailman-work.po, first do a cvs update in nl/LC_MESSAGES (this shouldn't overwrite your work, but you can save your mailman-work.po somewhere else, for safety), then also in nl/LC_MESSAGES, type: msgmerge -o mailman.po mailman-work.po ../../mailman.pot This should overwrite the newly checked out mailman.po with your latest translation merged with the new mailman.pot and is probably what you want! :D On Tue, 2002-10-29 at 22:20, Barry A. Warsaw wrote: >=20 > >>>>> "DT" =3D=3D Danny Terweij writes: >=20 > DT> I see (new checkins) that many lines are changed at the > DT> mailman.po file (Bouncer Patch). How to merge the new > DT> mailman.po(latest cvs b4+) with my mailman-work.po(b4) ? I > DT> did serveral translations and i do not want it to be lost :( >=20 > Did you get CVS conflicts? Hopefully if so you didn't get a lot of > them, but if you did you'll need to resolve them manually in an > editor. Here's an entry from the cvs manual that helps explain the > process of resolving conflicts: >=20 > http://www.cvshome.org/docs/manual/cvs_10.html#SEC86 >=20 > -Barry >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Mailman-i18n mailing list > Mailman-i18n@python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-i18n >=20 >=20 ---------------------- multipart/signed attachment A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-i18n/attachments/20021029/d6218b4f/attachment.bin ---------------------- multipart/signed attachment-- From Daniel.Buchmann@bibsys.no Tue Oct 29 22:14:25 2002 From: Daniel.Buchmann@bibsys.no (Daniel Buchmann) Date: 29 Oct 2002 23:14:25 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-i18n] Help with Latest changes In-Reply-To: <15806.64405.807090.4465@gargle.gargle.HOWL> References: <117a01c27f8e$4bfc1350$1e00a8c0@onsnet.org> <15806.64405.807090.4465@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <1035927733.2506.31.camel@fornax.bibsys.no> ---------------------- multipart/signed attachment Here's another approach, that I think you might want to try, Danny: Merge your working catalog with the catalog Barry generated. You do this by using the msgmerge utility: msgmerge -o mailman.pot So if the file you are working on is called mailman-work.po, first do a cvs update in nl/LC_MESSAGES (this shouldn't overwrite your work, but you can save your mailman-work.po somewhere else, for safety), then also in nl/LC_MESSAGES, type: msgmerge -o mailman.po mailman-work.po ../../mailman.pot This should overwrite the newly checked out mailman.po with your latest translation merged with the new mailman.pot and is probably what you want! :D On Tue, 2002-10-29 at 22:20, Barry A. Warsaw wrote: >=20 > >>>>> "DT" =3D=3D Danny Terweij writes: >=20 > DT> I see (new checkins) that many lines are changed at the > DT> mailman.po file (Bouncer Patch). How to merge the new > DT> mailman.po(latest cvs b4+) with my mailman-work.po(b4) ? I > DT> did serveral translations and i do not want it to be lost :( >=20 > Did you get CVS conflicts? Hopefully if so you didn't get a lot of > them, but if you did you'll need to resolve them manually in an > editor. Here's an entry from the cvs manual that helps explain the > process of resolving conflicts: >=20 > http://www.cvshome.org/docs/manual/cvs_10.html#SEC86 >=20 > -Barry >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Mailman-i18n mailing list > Mailman-i18n@python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-i18n >=20 >=20 --=20 Mvh Daniel Buchmann, Systemteknisk Avdeling, BIBSYS, NTNU. Tlf. 73 59 02 14 ---------------------- multipart/signed attachment A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-i18n/attachments/20021029/1b1aeb1e/attachment.bin ---------------------- multipart/signed attachment-- From barry@python.org Tue Oct 29 22:15:29 2002 From: barry@python.org (Barry A. Warsaw) Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 17:15:29 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-i18n] Help with Latest changes References: <117a01c27f8e$4bfc1350$1e00a8c0@onsnet.org> <15806.64405.807090.4465@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <1035929507.2322.1.camel@fornax.bibsys.no> Message-ID: <15807.2177.914451.318141@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Ah, good suggestion, thanks Daniel. -Barry From danny@terweij.nl Tue Oct 29 22:50:08 2002 From: danny@terweij.nl (Danny Terweij) Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 23:50:08 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-i18n] Help with Latest changes References: <117a01c27f8e$4bfc1350$1e00a8c0@onsnet.org><15806.64405.807090.4465@gargle.gargle.HOWL><1035929507.2322.1.camel@fornax.bibsys.no> <15807.2177.914451.318141@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <11fd01c27f9d$88314ac0$1e00a8c0@onsnet.org> From: "Barry A. Warsaw" > Ah, good suggestion, thanks Daniel. Yeah this worked! Thanx both of you! Now i can upgrade my b4 to b4+ :) Danny. From keeper@odi.com.br Wed Oct 30 00:28:36 2002 From: keeper@odi.com.br (keeper@odi.com.br) Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 22:28:36 -0200 Subject: [Mailman-i18n] Braziliam translation Message-ID: <1035937716.3dbf27b46185c@webmail2.odi.com.br> Hello All, Can i have some info where to download the mailman with with translations? Tks Ângelo From loewis@informatik.hu-berlin.de Wed Oct 30 08:51:31 2002 From: loewis@informatik.hu-berlin.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-1?q?L=F6wis?=) Date: 30 Oct 2002 09:51:31 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-i18n] Braziliam translation In-Reply-To: <1035937716.3dbf27b46185c@webmail2.odi.com.br> References: <1035937716.3dbf27b46185c@webmail2.odi.com.br> Message-ID: keeper@odi.com.br writes: > Can i have some info where to download the mailman with with translations? You need to get 2.1b4 from http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=103&release_id=118606 Regards, Martin From mss@mawhrin.net Wed Oct 30 10:42:51 2002 From: mss@mawhrin.net (Mikhail Sobolev) Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 10:42:51 +0000 Subject: [Mailman-i18n] Help with Latest changes In-Reply-To: <117a01c27f8e$4bfc1350$1e00a8c0@onsnet.org> References: <117a01c27f8e$4bfc1350$1e00a8c0@onsnet.org> Message-ID: <20021030104251.GA20885@mawhrin.net> ---------------------- multipart/signed attachment On Tue, Oct 29, 2002 at 10:00:31PM +0100, Danny Terweij wrote: > I see (new checkins) that many lines are changed at the mailman.po file > (Bouncer Patch). > How to merge the new mailman.po(latest cvs b4+) with my mailman-work.po(b4) > ? > I did serveral translations and i do not want it to be lost :( You just need to "merge" your current work with the latest mailman.pot What I usually do: cd messages cvs update mailman.pot cd ru/LC_MESSAGES msgmerge -o current.po mailman.po ../../mailman.pot rm -f mailman.po mailman.mo cvs update mailman.po mailman.mo # you may want to compare the file in the repository with the one # you have: # diff -ub current.po mailman.po mv -f current.po mailman.po Hope this helps. -- Misha ---------------------- multipart/signed attachment A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-i18n/attachments/20021030/76e647c1/attachment.bin ---------------------- multipart/signed attachment-- From danny@terweij.nl Wed Oct 30 19:23:33 2002 From: danny@terweij.nl (Danny Terweij) Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 20:23:33 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-i18n] Help with Latest changes References: <117a01c27f8e$4bfc1350$1e00a8c0@onsnet.org><15806.64405.807090.4465@gargle.gargle.HOWL><11a001c27f93$b7d8e440$1e00a8c0@onsnet.org><15807.1163.512185.158881@gargle.gargle.HOWL><11e101c27f97$489e0520$1e00a8c0@onsnet.org> <15807.1891.25036.165111@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <01ce01c28049$d6895e90$1e00a8c0@onsnet.org> From: "Barry A. Warsaw" > >>>>> "DT" == Danny Terweij writes: > DT> Okay, so i must just edit the mailman.po file at the cvs > DT> location? Then my edit's and the new cvs changes are merged? > Usually, yes. Once in a while you'll get conflicts that have to be > manually resolved, but for this file, that should be extremely rare. Okay, i have /users/mailman-cvs/ I do: cvs -d:pserver:anonymous@cvs.mailman.sourceforge.net:/cvsroot/mailman login cvs -z3 -d:pserver:anonymous@cvs.mailman.sourceforge.net:/cvsroot/mailman co mailman Edit some translations at /users/mailman-cvs/mailman/messages/nl/LC_MESSAGES/mailman.po Then do this again: cvs -d:pserver:anonymous@cvs.mailman.sourceforge.net:/cvsroot/mailman login cvs -z3 -d:pserver:anonymous@cvs.mailman.sourceforge.net:/cvsroot/mailman co mailman Then i got : cvs server: Updating mailman/messages/ko cvs server: Updating mailman/messages/ko/LC_MESSAGES cvs server: Updating mailman/messages/nl cvs server: Updating mailman/messages/nl/LC_MESSAGES cvs checkout: move away mailman/messages/nl/LC_MESSAGES/mailman.mo; it is in the way C mailman/messages/nl/LC_MESSAGES/mailman.mo cvs checkout: move away mailman/messages/nl/LC_MESSAGES/mailman.po; it is in the way C mailman/messages/nl/LC_MESSAGES/mailman.po cvs server: Updating mailman/messages/no cvs server: Updating mailman/messages/no/LC_MESSAGES So my edit file is deleted and replaced with cvs version? Maybe i still do something wrong :) Danny. From loewis@informatik.hu-berlin.de Wed Oct 30 21:32:42 2002 From: loewis@informatik.hu-berlin.de (Martin von Loewis) Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 22:32:42 +0100 (CET) Subject: [Mailman-i18n] Help with Latest changes In-Reply-To: <01ce01c28049$d6895e90$1e00a8c0@onsnet.org> from Danny Terweij at "Oct 30, 2002 08:23:33 pm" Message-ID: <200210302132.g9ULWhAU013699@paros.informatik.hu-berlin.de> > So my edit file is deleted and replaced with cvs version? Yes. > Maybe i still do something wrong :) It's too late now. CVS merging would only work if you already have a sandbox. When checking out a fresh copy, no merging is done. So you should have checked out the CVS sandbox a month ago, and should have performed a cvs update now. You still can reproduce the sequence of actions, by: - checking out an old tree, with 'cvs co -D"last month" mailman', - copying your .po file over the CVS one, - updating to the current tree, with 'cvs up -A' (-A to remove the date tag) "last month" might be incorrect, since you really need to get the CVS state which you used to produce your current PO file. Regards, Martin From Daniel.Buchmann@bibsys.no Wed Oct 30 21:52:24 2002 From: Daniel.Buchmann@bibsys.no (Daniel Buchmann) Date: 30 Oct 2002 22:52:24 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-i18n] Help with Latest changes In-Reply-To: <200210302132.g9ULWhAU013699@paros.informatik.hu-berlin.de> References: <200210302132.g9ULWhAU013699@paros.informatik.hu-berlin.de> Message-ID: <1036014746.2257.8.camel@fornax.bibsys.no> ---------------------- multipart/signed attachment On Wed, 2002-10-30 at 22:32, Martin von Loewis wrote: > > So my edit file is deleted and replaced with cvs version? >=20 > Yes. Hmm... I don't think so. If you do "cvs update", yes then the file is messed up, but since Danny did "cvs checkout", nothing happened to his file, I think.. > You still can reproduce the sequence of actions, by: >=20 > - checking out an old tree, with 'cvs co -D"last month" mailman', > - copying your .po file over the CVS one, > - updating to the current tree, with 'cvs up -A' (-A to remove the date > tag) Or, you can: - check out the current CVS tree to a new location, let's say /users/mailman-CVS - delete mailman.mo and mailman.po from /users/mailman-CVS/mailman/messages/nl/LC_MESSAGES - copy your translation (which you said were at /users/mailman-cvs/mailman/messages/nl/LC_MESSAGES/mailman.po) to /users/mailman-CVS/mailman/messages/nl/LC_MESSAGES/current.po - change directory to /users/mailman-CVS/mailman/messages/nl/LC_MESSAGES - run this command: msgmerge -o mailman.po current.po ../../mailman.pot - and then this one, to generate the binary catalog: msgfmt -o mailman.mo mailman.po Hope this helps. :) ---------------------- multipart/signed attachment A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-i18n/attachments/20021030/f6dadedb/attachment.bin ---------------------- multipart/signed attachment-- From loewis@informatik.hu-berlin.de Thu Oct 31 08:13:47 2002 From: loewis@informatik.hu-berlin.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-1?q?L=F6wis?=) Date: 31 Oct 2002 09:13:47 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-i18n] Help with Latest changes In-Reply-To: <1036014746.2257.8.camel@fornax.bibsys.no> References: <200210302132.g9ULWhAU013699@paros.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <1036014746.2257.8.camel@fornax.bibsys.no> Message-ID: Daniel Buchmann writes: > Hmm... I don't think so. If you do "cvs update", yes then the file is > messed up, but since Danny did "cvs checkout", nothing happened to his > file, I think.. Ah, right. Even in case of the cvs update, CVS keeps a copy of the original file in .#file.version > - run this command: > msgmerge -o mailman.po current.po ../../mailman.pot > > - and then this one, to generate the binary catalog: > msgfmt -o mailman.mo mailman.po Yes, msgmerge is definitely the recommended way. Regards, Martin From gleydson.mazioli@ima.sp.gov.br Wed Oct 30 13:58:48 2002 From: gleydson.mazioli@ima.sp.gov.br (Gleydson Mazioli da Silva) Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 10:58:48 -0300 Subject: [Mailman-i18n] Braziliam translation In-Reply-To: <1035937716.3dbf27b46185c@webmail2.odi.com.br> References: <1035937716.3dbf27b46185c@webmail2.odi.com.br> Message-ID: <20021030105848.2696eb2d.gleydson@ima.sp.gov.br> I've sent the brazilian translation since version 2.1b3. I recommend the use of 2.1b4 because a fix that broken the email queue :-) Regards, keeper@odi.com.br em Tue, 29 Oct 2002 22:28:36 -0200 escreveu: > Hello All, > > Can i have some info where to download the mailman with with translations? > > > Tks > > Ângelo > > > > _______________________________________________ > Mailman-i18n mailing list > Mailman-i18n@python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-i18n -- Gleydson Mazioli da Silva ------------------------- gleydson@ima.sp.gov.br Consultor de Servidores GNU/Linux IMA - Informática de Municipios Associados Av. Anchieta 200 - Campinas - SP (19) 3232-9611 - R. 216