From db@bibsys.no  Mon Oct  1 12:41:55 2001
From: db@bibsys.no (Daniel Buchmann)
Date: Mon, 01 Oct 2001 13:41:55 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-i18n] marking-process status
References: 20010930234223.E1239@abulafia.casa
Message-ID: <3BB85683.46C12842@bibsys.no>

Simone Piunno wrote:
> 
> Hi everybody.
> 
> I was playing whith i18n and the last 2.1a3 CVS and I have much
> untranslated text.  This is strange because:
> 
> [pioppo@flug LC_MESSAGES]$ msgcmp mailman.po ../../mailman.pot
> [pioppo@flug LC_MESSAGES]$ msgfmt -v -o mailman.mo mailman.po
> 575 translated messages, 328 fuzzy translations, 1 untranslated
> messages.
> 
> mailman.pot was generated by me with pygettext, so it is up-to-date
> with the code.
> 
> Maybe there is still unmarked text?

I'm not a gettext utils guru, but as far as I know, fuzzy translations are not
translated.
Maybe that's why you still have much untranslated text...?

If you remove the "fuzzy" marks in your mailman.po file, I think you should see
that all text is translated..

(Btw, are you using emacs po-mode to edit mailman.po? It's really great.. makes
it all so easy to do translations..)

:-)



- Daniel B.


From pinard@iro.umontreal.ca  Mon Oct  1 15:28:02 2001
From: pinard@iro.umontreal.ca (=?iso-8859-1?q?Fran=E7ois?= Pinard)
Date: 01 Oct 2001 10:28:02 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-i18n] marking-process status
In-Reply-To: <3BB85683.46C12842@bibsys.no>
References: <3BB85683.46C12842@bibsys.no>
Message-ID: <oqelonqvt9.fsf@carouge.sram.qc.ca>

[Daniel Buchmann]

> If you remove the "fuzzy" marks in your mailman.po file, I think you
> should see that all text is translated.

An entry is `fuzzy' if it has been generated automatically, by approximate
matching at previous `msgmerge' time, or otherwise (like for the PO file
header itself), and not yet revised by a human.  The human translator
removes the `fuzzy' indicator when she's happy with the approximation,
of after she corrected it.  PO mode has provision to remove the `fuzzy'
automatically after edition (I do not remember if these are defaulted.)

These fuzzy entries are not retained for run-time translations, because
they may be plain wrong, and also, because they may break the software.
For example, format specifiers (like `%d') may be introduced that do not
correspond in type or quantity to the actual substitution list, yielding
run-time errors.  The execution of a program should never fail merely because
translations were asked for, or else, users will get so angry at localisation
that they would run away with strong intents to never come back! :-)

This is why `fuzzy' entries exist, and are not retained at run-time.

-- 
François Pinard   http://www.iro.umontreal.ca/~pinard


From pioppo@ferrara.linux.it  Mon Oct  1 20:42:20 2001
From: pioppo@ferrara.linux.it (Simone Piunno)
Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2001 21:42:20 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-i18n] marking-process status
In-Reply-To: <oqelonqvt9.fsf@carouge.sram.qc.ca>; from pinard@iro.umontreal.ca on Mon, Oct 01, 2001 at 10:28:02AM -0400
References: <3BB85683.46C12842@bibsys.no> <oqelonqvt9.fsf@carouge.sram.qc.ca>
Message-ID: <20011001214220.G1342@abulafia.casa>

Many thanks to Daniel and François, I will check fuzzy entries
and remove the comment.  BTW: I'm a vim addicted but I think I
will give emacs a chance :)

-- 
 /~\ The ASCII
 \ / Ribbon Campaign
  X  Against HTML             unzip && touch && finger && mount
 / \ Email!                   && gasp && yes && umount && sleep


From pioppo@ferrara.linux.it  Mon Oct  1 21:20:32 2001
From: pioppo@ferrara.linux.it (Simone Piunno)
Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2001 22:20:32 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-i18n] another question
Message-ID: <20011001222032.I1342@abulafia.casa>

Hi again...
check for fuzzy entries I noticed this case:

# /home/mailman/Mailman/HTMLFormatter.py:93
#: Mailman/HTMLFormatter.py:79
msgid "<em>(%(num_concealed)d private member%(plu)s not shown)</em>"
msgstr ""
"<em>(non sono mostrati %(num_concealed)d membri nascosti)</em>"

Now, I suppose %(plu)s is for the english plural "s", but italian
has nothing similar... I understand that removing the variable
reference breaks the program... so what can I do?

-- 
 /~\ The ASCII
 \ / Ribbon Campaign
  X  Against HTML             unzip && touch && finger && mount
 / \ Email!                   && gasp && yes && umount && sleep


From thomas@xs4all.net  Mon Oct  1 21:35:04 2001
From: thomas@xs4all.net (Thomas Wouters)
Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2001 22:35:04 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-i18n] another question
In-Reply-To: <20011001222032.I1342@abulafia.casa>
References: <20011001222032.I1342@abulafia.casa>
Message-ID: <20011001223504.H844@xs4all.nl>

On Mon, Oct 01, 2001 at 10:20:32PM +0200, Simone Piunno wrote:

> # /home/mailman/Mailman/HTMLFormatter.py:93
> #: Mailman/HTMLFormatter.py:79
> msgid "<em>(%(num_concealed)d private member%(plu)s not shown)</em>"
> msgstr ""
> "<em>(non sono mostrati %(num_concealed)d membri nascosti)</em>"

> Now, I suppose %(plu)s is for the english plural "s", but italian
> has nothing similar... I understand that removing the variable
> reference breaks the program... so what can I do?

You can safely remove the variable reference, it won't break the program. 

-- 
Thomas Wouters <thomas@xs4all.net>

Hi! I'm a .signature virus! copy me into your .signature file to help me spread!


From barry@zope.com  Mon Oct  1 22:47:19 2001
From: barry@zope.com (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2001 17:47:19 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-i18n] another question
References: <20011001222032.I1342@abulafia.casa>
Message-ID: <15288.58471.331864.135744@anthem.wooz.org>

>>>>> "SP" == Simone Piunno <pioppo@ferrara.linux.it> writes:

    SP> Now, I suppose %(plu)s is for the english plural "s", but
    SP> italian has nothing similar... I understand that removing the
    SP> variable reference breaks the program... so what can I do?

Yes, this is bogus.  I'm rewriting that section of code to be:

        if num_concealed == 1:
            concealed = _('<em>(1 private member not shown)</em>')
        elif num_concealed > 1:
           concealed = _(
               '<em>(%(num_concealed)d private members not shown)</em>')
        else:
            concealed = ''

so you'll have two separate entries to translate.

-Barry


From mikhail.sobolev@transas.com  Tue Oct  2 00:28:23 2001
From: mikhail.sobolev@transas.com (Mikhail Sobolev)
Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2001 00:28:23 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-i18n] another question
In-Reply-To: <15288.58471.331864.135744@anthem.wooz.org>
References: <20011001222032.I1342@abulafia.casa> <15288.58471.331864.135744@anthem.wooz.org>
Message-ID: <20011002002823.A30920@transas.co.uk>

On Mon, Oct 01, 2001 at 05:47:19PM -0400, Barry A. Warsaw wrote:
> 
> >>>>> "SP" == Simone Piunno <pioppo@ferrara.linux.it> writes:
> 
>     SP> Now, I suppose %(plu)s is for the english plural "s", but
>     SP> italian has nothing similar... I understand that removing the
>     SP> variable reference breaks the program... so what can I do?
> 
> Yes, this is bogus.  I'm rewriting that section of code to be:
> 
>         if num_concealed == 1:
>             concealed = _('<em>(1 private member not shown)</em>')
>         elif num_concealed > 1:
>            concealed = _(
>                '<em>(%(num_concealed)d private members not shown)</em>')
>         else:
>             concealed = ''
> 
> so you'll have two separate entries to translate.
Are you going to do something similar for Russian, then? :))  I believe,
here we have at least three possible cases... :))

--
Misha


From barry@zope.com  Tue Oct  2 01:01:58 2001
From: barry@zope.com (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2001 20:01:58 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-i18n] another question
References: <20011001222032.I1342@abulafia.casa>
 <15288.58471.331864.135744@anthem.wooz.org>
 <20011002002823.A30920@transas.co.uk>
Message-ID: <15289.1014.502023.950703@anthem.wooz.org>

>>>>> "MS" == Mikhail Sobolev <mikhail.sobolev@transas.com> writes:

    MS> Are you going to do something similar for Russian, then? :)) I
    MS> believe, here we have at least three possible cases... :))

Can you suggest what needs to be done?

-Barry


From barry@zope.com  Tue Oct  2 03:09:29 2001
From: barry@zope.com (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2001 22:09:29 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-i18n] Portuguese translation
References: <20010927130653.M8135@freemail.hu>
 <DAELJEGEBHFNLMLDGBJPOEODCLAA.samarta@ci.uc.pt>
Message-ID: <15289.8665.427827.739219@anthem.wooz.org>

>>>>> "JSM" == Joao Sa Marta <samarta@ci.uc.pt> writes:

    JSM> Is anybody out there doing some re- design of the html files
    JSM> ?

    JSM> Just because I've done so, when I began to translate the
    JSM> 2.0.5 version, when I realised that I had to work out in the
    JSM> .py files to accomplish that.

I think you will find that adding Portuguese translations will be much
easier with the 2.1 code base than with the 2.0.x series.  I would
love to have Portuguese translations supported in Mailman 2.1.  May I
put you down as the head of the Portuguese translation effort?

-Barry


From barry@zope.com  Tue Oct  2 03:23:31 2001
From: barry@zope.com (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2001 22:23:31 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-i18n] German translation of Mailman-2.1?
References: <20010921091141.C28577@innominate.com>
Message-ID: <15289.9507.827374.127512@anthem.wooz.org>

>>>>> "RH" == Ralf Hildebrandt <Ralf.Hildebrandt@innominate.com> writes:

    RH> I've seen the message catalogs for mailman-2.1, but I cannot
    RH> find the template files for a German translation. Does anybody
    RH> have these?

Jens Vagelpohl is working on the German translations.  He's a
colleague of mine and can be contacted at jens@zope.com

    RH> As a side note: I have begun translating the files in the
    RH> template directory, since our customer needs a German mailman

    RH> Right now I must say that the documentation about how to
    RH> actually make the translated documents work sucks. I had to
    RH> read README.es (!)  to find out the steps I have to carry
    RH> out...

Have you seen README-I18N.en?  It's available in CVS at the top level
directory, and on SourceForge at

    http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=103

although I've just updated the CVS version to explain how to
contribute your translation back to the Mailman project.  If anything
is unclear in that file, please let me know.  It is supposed to be the
definitive documentation for how to create, install, and donate
translations for Mailman 2.1.

-Barry


From mikhail.sobolev@transas.com  Tue Oct  2 09:23:14 2001
From: mikhail.sobolev@transas.com (Mikhail Sobolev)
Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2001 09:23:14 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-i18n] another question
In-Reply-To: <15289.1014.502023.950703@anthem.wooz.org>
References: <20011001222032.I1342@abulafia.casa> <15288.58471.331864.135744@anthem.wooz.org> <20011002002823.A30920@transas.co.uk> <15289.1014.502023.950703@anthem.wooz.org>
Message-ID: <20011002092314.A32656@transas.co.uk>

On Mon, Oct 01, 2001 at 08:01:58PM -0400, Barry A. Warsaw wrote:
> 
> >>>>> "MS" == Mikhail Sobolev <mikhail.sobolev@transas.com> writes:
> 
>     MS> Are you going to do something similar for Russian, then? :)) I
>     MS> believe, here we have at least three possible cases... :))
> 
> Can you suggest what needs to be done?
Well, if I understand it right, as for the current [in Debian] version
of gettext (0.10.40), there is a special construct in .po files, which
allow different appropriate translation of plural forms.  My
understanding (as I never used it) is that you need to use ngettext
instead of gettext in cases, where the result speaks about amounts.  So
briefly (I almost quote the info page for gettext, the section `Plural
Forms')

Instead of

    printf (gettext ("We've got %d bird(s)"), n);

and even

    if (n == 1)
        printf (gettext ("We've got 1 bird"));
    else
        printf (gettext ("We've got %d birds"), n);

one would need to use

    printf (ngettext ("We've got %d bird", "We've got %d birds"), n);

Where the first string is used as the msgid, and the second string is
used for the English language in case n != 1.

You'd need to add a special line to the header entry (example for
Russian):

Plural-Forms: nplurals=3; \
    plural=n%10==1 && n%100!=11 ? 0 : \
                n%10>=2 && n%10<=4 && (n%100<10 || n%100>=20) ? 1 : 2;

And every entry that corresponds to such a text:

msgid "the singular form"
msgid_plural "the plural form"
msgstr[0] "translated string for the case 0"
...
msgstr[n] "translated string for the case 0"

--
Misha


From samarta@ci.uc.pt  Tue Oct  2 10:01:02 2001
From: samarta@ci.uc.pt (Joao Sa Marta)
Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2001 10:01:02 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-i18n] Portuguese translation
In-Reply-To: <15289.8665.427827.739219@anthem.wooz.org>
Message-ID: <DAELJEGEBHFNLMLDGBJPEEDHCMAA.samarta@ci.uc.pt>


-----Mensagem original-----
De: mailman-i18n-admin@python.org
[mailto:mailman-i18n-admin@python.org]Em nome de Barry A. Warsaw
Enviada: terca-feira, 2 de Outubro de 2001 3:09
Para: Joao Sa Marta
Cc: Szilard Vizi; mailman-i18n@python.org
Assunto: RE: [Mailman-i18n] Portuguese translation



>>>>> "JSM" == Joao Sa Marta <samarta@ci.uc.pt> writes:

    JSM> Is anybody out there doing some re- design of the html files
    JSM> ?

    JSM> Just because I've done so, when I began to translate the
    JSM> 2.0.5 version, when I realised that I had to work out in the
    JSM> .py files to accomplish that.

I think you will find that adding Portuguese translations will be much
easier with the 2.1 code base than with the 2.0.x series.  I would
love to have Portuguese translations supported in Mailman 2.1.  May I
put you down as the head of the Portuguese translation effort?



Yes.


I have download the cvs and began to translate the templates.
I am finishing of translating the txt files.
There's a brazilian that is translating the catalog.

I need some guidelines on what to do when I am finish.

Are there imposed timelines for the translation task ?

Best wishes


From samarta@ci.uc.pt  Tue Oct  2 11:35:40 2001
From: samarta@ci.uc.pt (Joao Sa Marta)
Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2001 11:35:40 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-i18n] Error in Spanish templates
Message-ID: <DAELJEGEBHFNLMLDGBJPIEDICMAA.samarta@ci.uc.pt>

Greetings,

Last week I've downloaded the CVS, and I am doing the
portuguese version, based in the spanish translation 
(it's easier for me)
So I've detected that the es templates have a file
private.txt instead of private.html (like all the other
languages templates).

Best regards,
===============================|===================================
=    Joao Sa Marta             |  Email: samarta@ci.uc.pt         =
=    Centro de Informatica     |  Tel:   239 853170               =
=    da Universidade de        |  Fax:   239 853189               =
=    Coimbra                   |                                  =
=    Apartado 3080             |                                  =
=    3049 Coimbra CODEX        |                                  =
===============================|===================================

 



From barry@zope.com  Tue Oct  2 15:06:58 2001
From: barry@zope.com (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2001 10:06:58 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-i18n] another question
References: <20011001222032.I1342@abulafia.casa>
 <15288.58471.331864.135744@anthem.wooz.org>
 <20011002002823.A30920@transas.co.uk>
 <15289.1014.502023.950703@anthem.wooz.org>
 <20011002092314.A32656@transas.co.uk>
Message-ID: <15289.51714.465519.847800@anthem.wooz.org>

[I'm cc'ing Python's i18n-sig... -baw]

>>>>> "MS" == Mikhail Sobolev <mikhail.sobolev@transas.com> writes:

    MS> Are you going to do something similar for Russian, then? :)) I
    MS> believe, here we have at least three possible cases... :))

    BAW> Can you suggest what needs to be done?

    MS> Well, if I understand it right, as for the current [in Debian]
    MS> version of gettext (0.10.40), there is a special construct in
    MS> .po files, which allow different appropriate translation of
    MS> plural forms.  My understanding (as I never used it) is that
    MS> you need to use ngettext instead of gettext in cases, where
    MS> the result speaks about amounts.  So briefly (I almost quote
    MS> the info page for gettext, the section `Plural Forms')

    MS> Instead of

    |     printf (gettext ("We've got %d bird(s)"), n);

    MS> and even

    |     if (n == 1)
    |         printf (gettext ("We've got 1 bird"));
    |     else
    |         printf (gettext ("We've got %d birds"), n);

    MS> one would need to use

    |     printf (ngettext ("We've got %d bird", "We've got %d birds"), n);

    MS> Where the first string is used as the msgid, and the second
    MS> string is used for the English language in case n != 1.

    MS> You'd need to add a special line to the header entry (example
    MS> for Russian):

    | Plural-Forms: nplurals=3; \
    |     plural=n%10==1 && n%100!=11 ? 0 : \
    |                 n%10>=2 && n%10<=4 && (n%100<10 || n%100>=20) ? 1 : 2;

    MS> And every entry that corresponds to such a text:

    | msgid "the singular form"
    | msgid_plural "the plural form"
    | msgstr[0] "translated string for the case 0"
    | ...
    | msgstr[n] "translated string for the case 0"

None of the Python i18n tools supports ngettext or Plural forms.  I
definitely don't have the time right now to enhance either the gettext
module or pygettext.py to grok this, which seems pretty complicated to
me <wink>.

Unless someone volunteers to add such support to the Python i18n
tools, I suggest we find a way to hack around it in the Mailman source
code.

Cheers,
-Barry


From barry@zope.com  Tue Oct  2 15:09:28 2001
From: barry@zope.com (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2001 10:09:28 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-i18n] Portuguese translation
References: <15289.8665.427827.739219@anthem.wooz.org>
 <DAELJEGEBHFNLMLDGBJPEEDHCMAA.samarta@ci.uc.pt>
Message-ID: <15289.51864.8930.323099@anthem.wooz.org>

>>>>> "JSM" == Joao Sa Marta <samarta@ci.uc.pt> writes:

    JSM> I have download the cvs and began to translate the templates.
    JSM> I am finishing of translating the txt files.  There's a
    JSM> brazilian that is translating the catalog.

    JSM> I need some guidelines on what to do when I am finish.

Here's what README-I18N.en says for contributing your translation back
to Mailman:

-------------------- snip snip --------------------
DONATING YOUR TRANSLATION BACK TO MAILMAN

    We'd really appreciate it if you donate your translations back to
    the Mailman project, so that others can benefit from your effort.
    You'll get credit of course, in the Mailman documentation.  Here
    are the steps to donate your translations, either the first time
    or subsequent updates.

    The best thing to do is to send me <barry@zope.com> a "tarball",
    i.e. a gzip'd tarfile, that can be unpacked in the top level
    directory of the Mailman CVS tree.  This would be the directory
    containing this README-I18N.en file.

    Your tarball should contain two directories, where your donated
    language is `xx':

    templates/xx
    messages/xx

    In templates/xx there should be the translated templates, all the
    .txt and .html files, for your language, mirroring those in the
    English template directory (always the master copy).

    In messages/xx you should have a single directory LC_MESSAGES, and
    in that directory a file called mailman.po, which is the human
    readable catalog for your language.  Do not send me the mailman.mo
    file, since I'll recreate it on my end, and that'll save on the
    size of the tarball.

    That's basically it.  If you need to include a README, please call
    it README.xx and put it in the messages/xx directory.  README.xx
    can be in your native language.

    You can email the tarball to me, and if this is the first
    installation of the language, please tell me what the
    add_language() call in Defaults.py.in should be for your
    language.
-------------------- snip snip --------------------

    JSM> Are there imposed timelines for the translation task ?

None at the moment.  I suspect as we go along the catalogs will start
to stabilize.  Maybe we should plan on a couple of release candidates
that only update translations?

-Barry


From barry@zope.com  Tue Oct  2 15:12:50 2001
From: barry@zope.com (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2001 10:12:50 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-i18n] Error in Spanish templates
References: <DAELJEGEBHFNLMLDGBJPIEDICMAA.samarta@ci.uc.pt>
Message-ID: <15289.52066.244853.91910@anthem.wooz.org>

>>>>> "JSM" == Joao Sa Marta <samarta@ci.uc.pt> writes:

    JSM> So I've detected that the es templates have a file
    JSM> private.txt instead of private.html (like all the other
    JSM> languages templates).

Yep, I'd forgotten to commit Juan Carlos's latest private.html and
remove private.txt.  Fixed now.

Thanks,
-Barry


From mikhail.sobolev@transas.com  Tue Oct  2 16:32:25 2001
From: mikhail.sobolev@transas.com (Mikhail Sobolev)
Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2001 16:32:25 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-i18n] another question
In-Reply-To: <15289.51714.465519.847800@anthem.wooz.org>
References: <20011001222032.I1342@abulafia.casa> <15288.58471.331864.135744@anthem.wooz.org> <20011002002823.A30920@transas.co.uk> <15289.1014.502023.950703@anthem.wooz.org> <20011002092314.A32656@transas.co.uk> <15289.51714.465519.847800@anthem.wooz.org>
Message-ID: <20011002163225.A2842@transas.co.uk>

On Tue, Oct 02, 2001 at 10:06:58AM -0400, Barry A. Warsaw wrote:
> None of the Python i18n tools supports ngettext or Plural forms.  I
> definitely don't have the time right now to enhance either the gettext
> module or pygettext.py to grok this, which seems pretty complicated to
> me <wink>.
> 
> Unless someone volunteers to add such support to the Python i18n
> tools, I suggest we find a way to hack around it in the Mailman source
> code.
Hmm... I had a look on the code in bin/pygettext.py, it does look a bit
complicated for me...

--
Misha


From loewis@informatik.hu-berlin.de  Tue Oct  2 16:39:06 2001
From: loewis@informatik.hu-berlin.de (Martin von Loewis)
Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2001 17:39:06 +0200 (MEST)
Subject: [Mailman-i18n] another question
In-Reply-To: <20011002163225.A2842@transas.co.uk> (message from Mikhail
 Sobolev on Tue, 2 Oct 2001 16:32:25 +0100)
References: <20011001222032.I1342@abulafia.casa> <15288.58471.331864.135744@anthem.wooz.org> <20011002002823.A30920@transas.co.uk> <15289.1014.502023.950703@anthem.wooz.org> <20011002092314.A32656@transas.co.uk> <15289.51714.465519.847800@anthem.wooz.org> <20011002163225.A2842@transas.co.uk>
Message-ID: <200110021539.RAA14902@paros.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

> Hmm... I had a look on the code in bin/pygettext.py, it does look a bit
> complicated for me...

Notice that pygettext isn't that much of a problem (you could use
xgettext); it is the .mo file format, i.e. msgfmt.py and
gettext.py. For gettext, it is in particular the evaluation of the
expression that might be tricky, especially since the set of possible
expressions and their syntax isn't all that well defined.

Regards,
Martin


From barry@zope.com  Tue Oct  2 16:40:10 2001
From: barry@zope.com (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2001 11:40:10 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-i18n] another question
References: <20011001222032.I1342@abulafia.casa>
 <15288.58471.331864.135744@anthem.wooz.org>
 <20011002002823.A30920@transas.co.uk>
 <15289.1014.502023.950703@anthem.wooz.org>
 <20011002092314.A32656@transas.co.uk>
 <15289.51714.465519.847800@anthem.wooz.org>
 <20011002163225.A2842@transas.co.uk>
Message-ID: <15289.57306.535784.830215@anthem.wooz.org>

>>>>> "MS" == Mikhail Sobolev <mikhail.sobolev@transas.com> writes:

    MS> Hmm... I had a look on the code in bin/pygettext.py, it does
    MS> look a bit complicated for me...

And bin/pygettext.py is just a copy of what's in the Python source
code.

-Barry


From aleck@unesp.br  Tue Oct  2 19:18:35 2001
From: aleck@unesp.br (Aleck Zander)
Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2001 15:18:35 -0300 (BRT)
Subject: [Mailman-i18n] Translation to portuguese
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0110021514580.16405-100000@bilbo.ai.unesp.br>

	Hello,
	I started translating the mailman 2.1 templates files to
portuguese (Brazil).
	I just want to know if there are any group doing this
translation, and if I can join this effort.
	Or if there is no one doing this job, where can I submit the
files when I have finished it?
	Actualy I have already translated the templates, and just have to
finish the mailman.pot.

	Thanks in advance

--                              --
Aleck Zander    -   aleck@unesp.br
Network Analyst       -        GRC
Assessoria de Informatica -  Unesp



From samarta@ci.uc.pt  Wed Oct  3 10:44:01 2001
From: samarta@ci.uc.pt (Joao Sa Marta)
Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2001 10:44:01 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-i18n] Special characters in mailman.po
Message-ID: <DAELJEGEBHFNLMLDGBJPKEFACMAA.samarta@ci.uc.pt>

Greetings,

I need to use special characters in mailman.po

I noticed that in the french translation they have:
msgid "disabled"
msgstr "d=E9sactiv=E9"

In the spanish translation :
msgid "%(hostname)s mailing lists - Admin Links"
msgstr ""
"Listas de distribuci&oacute;n en %(hostname)s - Enlaces de "
"administraci&oacute;n"

My question is:
What should we use ?
The html version or the ohter ?


=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D|=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D    Joao Sa Marta             |  Email: samarta@ci.uc.pt         =3D
=3D    Centro de Informatica     |  Tel:   239 853170               =3D
=3D    da Universidade de        |  Fax:   239 853189               =3D
=3D    Coimbra                   |                                  =3D
=3D    Apartado 3080             |                                  =3D
=3D    3049 Coimbra CODEX        |                                  =3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D|=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D





From samarta@ci.uc.pt  Wed Oct  3 10:58:27 2001
From: samarta@ci.uc.pt (Joao Sa Marta)
Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2001 10:58:27 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-i18n] Special characters in mailman.po
Message-ID: <DAELJEGEBHFNLMLDGBJPMEFBCMAA.samarta@ci.uc.pt>

Greetings,

I need to use special characters in mailman.po

I noticed that in the french translation they have:
msgid "disabled"
msgstr "d=E9sactiv=E9"

In the spanish translation :
msgid "%(hostname)s mailing lists - Admin Links"
msgstr ""
"Listas de distribuci&oacute;n en %(hostname)s - Enlaces de "
"administraci&oacute;n"

My question is:
What should we use ?
The html version or the ohter ?


=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D|=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D    Joao Sa Marta             |  Email: samarta@ci.uc.pt         =3D
=3D    Centro de Informatica     |  Tel:   239 853170               =3D
=3D    da Universidade de        |  Fax:   239 853189               =3D
=3D    Coimbra                   |                                  =3D
=3D    Apartado 3080             |                                  =3D
=3D    3049 Coimbra CODEX        |                                  =3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D|=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D





From db@bibsys.no  Wed Oct  3 13:52:01 2001
From: db@bibsys.no (Daniel Buchmann)
Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2001 14:52:01 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-i18n] Special characters in mailman.po
References: DAELJEGEBHFNLMLDGBJPMEFBCMAA.samarta@ci.uc.pt
Message-ID: <3BBB09F1.9496938F@bibsys.no>

Joao Sa Marta wrote:
> 
> Greetings,
> 
> I need to use special characters in mailman.po
> 
> I noticed that in the french translation they have:
> msgid "disabled"
> msgstr "désactivé"
> 
> In the spanish translation :
> msgid "%(hostname)s mailing lists - Admin Links"
> msgstr ""
> "Listas de distribuci&oacute;n en %(hostname)s - Enlaces de "
> "administraci&oacute;n"
> 
> My question is:
> What should we use ?
> The html version or the ohter ?

I've asked this question too, see my post at:
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-i18n/2001-August/000294.html

In the norwegian translation, I used HTML entities for mailman.po entries that
would end up on a web page, and regular letters on entries that would end up in
an email or as output from a command line utility.
Whether this was the right way or wrong way of doing it, I don't know, but I
have not found any official guidelines of how to do this...


From samarta@ci.uc.pt  Wed Oct  3 17:38:15 2001
From: samarta@ci.uc.pt (Joao Sa Marta)
Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2001 17:38:15 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-i18n] Translation to portuguese Team(br and pt)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0110021514580.16405-100000@bilbo.ai.unesp.br>
Message-ID: <DAELJEGEBHFNLMLDGBJPGEFLCMAA.samarta@ci.uc.pt>

Greetings,

Here are the membres of the Translation to portuguese Team

Rubens Queiroz de Almeida - queiroz@ccuec.unicamp.br
Aleck Zander -              aleck@unesp.br
Jose Roberto Kerne  -      joseroberto@dicaslinux.com.br
Joao Sa Marta		- samarta@ci.uc.pt

There are 3 working in the br (brasilian) translation and
1 in the pt (portuguese) translation.


From pioppo@ferrara.linux.it  Fri Oct  5 21:22:10 2001
From: pioppo@ferrara.linux.it (Simone Piunno)
Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2001 22:22:10 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-i18n] ANNOUNCE: mailman-it project
Message-ID: <20011005222210.A1222@abulafia.casa>

Hi everybody,

I'm very glad to announce a new mailing list devoted to Mailman 
italian translation activities, revision process, and so on.

If you wish to:

- contribute to the italian translation
- report a translation bug or send feedback
- know when there is a new translation in the main CVS
- have files before they get committed

then you should subscribe our list: 

mailman-it@ferrara.linux.it

http://mailman.ferrara.linux.it/listinfo/mailman-it/

NOTE:
This is an italian-speaking mailing list.

-- 
 /~\ The ASCII
 \ / Ribbon Campaign
  X  Against HTML             unzip && touch && finger && mount
 / \ Email!                   && gasp && yes && umount && sleep


From tkikuchi@is.kochi-u.ac.jp  Sat Oct  6 03:18:34 2001
From: tkikuchi@is.kochi-u.ac.jp (Tokio Kikuchi)
Date: Sat, 06 Oct 2001 11:18:34 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-i18n] Japanese update
Message-ID: <3BBE69FA.1C68AFFF@is.kochi-u.ac.jp>

Hi, Barry and All

I have updated my Japanese translation and placed it at
http://mm.tkikuchi.net/mailman-2.1alpha.ja/mailman.i18n.ja.tar.gz

I had falsely placed my README.ja in messages directory last time.
So, please delete it from CVS. New README.ja is in messages/ja
within the new tar file.

Cheers,
--
Tokio


From pioppo@ferrara.linux.it  Sat Oct  6 14:11:55 2001
From: pioppo@ferrara.linux.it (Simone Piunno)
Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2001 15:11:55 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-i18n] little doubt
Message-ID: <20011006151155.B1312@abulafia.casa>

Why mailman.pot is in CVS?  Isn't it an auto-generated file 
that everyone can rebuild from source files?  My doubt is:
is it better to use the CVS mailman.pot or to rebuild the
file from source everytime I do cvs update?

-- 
 /~\ The ASCII
 \ / Ribbon Campaign
  X  Against HTML             unzip && touch && finger && mount
 / \ Email!                   && gasp && yes && umount && sleep


From loewis@informatik.hu-berlin.de  Mon Oct  8 09:42:15 2001
From: loewis@informatik.hu-berlin.de (Martin von Loewis)
Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2001 10:42:15 +0200 (MEST)
Subject: [Mailman-i18n] little doubt
In-Reply-To: <20011006151155.B1312@abulafia.casa> (message from Simone Piunno
 on Sat, 6 Oct 2001 15:11:55 +0200)
References: <20011006151155.B1312@abulafia.casa>
Message-ID: <200110080842.KAA07384@paros.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

> Why mailman.pot is in CVS?  Isn't it an auto-generated file 
> that everyone can rebuild from source files?  My doubt is:
> is it better to use the CVS mailman.pot or to rebuild the
> file from source everytime I do cvs update?

It's a generated file, indeed. However, I find it better if it is only
manually generated by the package maintainer, every now and
then. Generating it gives a clear message to translators that
translations need to be updated. Otherwise, translators may start
working on stuff that gets outdated again next week, when everything
is still under development.

Only translating the "official" POT file gives sanity to everybody
involved.

Regards,
Martin



From jbglaw@lug-owl.de  Mon Oct  8 14:01:38 2001
From: jbglaw@lug-owl.de (Jan-Benedict Glaw)
Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2001 15:01:38 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-i18n] German Umlauts in pipermail
Message-ID: <20011008150138.E16104@lug-owl.de>

Hi!

I tried to make pipermail (read: HyperArch.pl) aware of german Umlauts.
They're normally MIME-Encoded, using iso-8859-1. I searched through
the existing code for "<" and ">" substitution as they're correctly
substituted by &lt; and &gt;. Then I worked out the patch below.

Unfortunately, "<" and ">" are working as before, but the other
substitutions are never executed:-( Could anybody please give me
some hints?

MfG, JBG

diff -Nru mailman-2.0.6/Mailman/Archiver/HyperArch.py mailman-2.0.6-jbglaw/=
Mailman/Archiver/HyperArch.py
--- mailman-2.0.6/Mailman/Archiver/HyperArch.py	Mon Nov 13 22:50:05 2000
+++ mailman-2.0.6-jbglaw/Mailman/Archiver/HyperArch.py	Mon Oct  1 16:24:38 =
2001
@@ -57,10 +57,28 @@
=20
 =0C
 def html_quote(s):
-    repls =3D ( ('&', '&amp;'),
-	      ("<", '&lt;'),
-	      (">", '&gt;'),
-	      ('"', '&quot;'))
+    repls =3D ( ( '&',	'&amp;'		),
+	      ( '<',	'&lt;'		),
+	      ( '>',	'&gt;'		),
+	      ( '=3D20',	' '		),
+	      ( '=3D3D',	'=3D'		),
+	      ( '=3DE4',	'&auml;'	),
+	      ( '=3DF6',	'&ouml;'	),
+	      ( '=3DFC',	'&uuml;'	),
+	      ( '=3DDF',	'&szlig;'	),
+	      ( '=3DC4',	'&Auml;'	),
+	      ( '=3DF6',	'&Ouml;'	),
+	      ( '=3DDC',	'&Uuml;'	),
+	      ( '=3DE9',	'&eacute;'	),
+	      ( '=E4',	'&auml;'	),
+	      ( '=F6',	'&ouml;'	),
+	      ( '=FC',	'&uuml;'	),
+	      ( '=DF',	'&szlig;'	),
+	      ( '=C4',	'&Auml;'	),
+	      ( '=D6',	'&Ouml;'	),
+	      ( '=DC',	'&Uuml;'	),
+	      ( '=E9',	'&eacute;'	),
+	      ( '"',	'&quot;'	))
     for thing, repl in repls:
 	s =3D string.replace(s, thing, repl)
     return s
--=20
Jan-Benedict Glaw . jbglaw@lug-owl.de . +49-172-7608481


From joseroberto@pwr.com.br  Mon Oct  8 18:36:52 2001
From: joseroberto@pwr.com.br (José Roberto Kerne)
Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2001 14:36:52 -0300
Subject: [Mailman-i18n] Mailman Translate - Need help
Message-ID: <20011008143652.2ed1c50b.joseroberto@pwr.com.br>

Hello...

I am translating the Mailman software for my language!
(Porguese-Brazil)

Please, sorry my english ok! I am studing english yet!

OK... I need for information for translate the mailman....

Anyone help-me ?

Thanks!



-- 
José Roberto Kerne
Analista de Suporte
Profissional Certificado Linux - LPI
E-mail: joseroberto@pwr.com.br
Power Consultoria e Informatica Ltda
Fone: (47) 433-7595 - Celular: 9107-6073
Rede Conectiva de Serviços
Oracle Alliances



From CTA@ludens.elte.hu  Thu Oct 11 20:28:39 2001
From: CTA@ludens.elte.hu (Krisztian Magori)
Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2001 21:28:39 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-i18n] Hungarian translation
Message-ID: <Pine.VMS.3.91-2.1011011212709.29405A-100000@ludens.elte.hu>

Hi there !

I'm pretty new to Mailman, I just started as a list administrator. Can 
you give me any help in setting Mailman to give messages in Hungarian?

Thank you very much
Christian Magori


From barry@zope.com  Fri Oct 12 21:44:11 2001
From: barry@zope.com (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 16:44:11 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-i18n] German Umlauts in pipermail
References: <20011008150138.E16104@lug-owl.de>
Message-ID: <15303.22043.311298.82413@geddy.wooz.org>

>>>>> "JG" == Jan-Benedict Glaw <jbglaw@lug-owl.de> writes:

    JG> I tried to make pipermail (read: HyperArch.pl) aware of german
---------------------------------------------------^^
<shudder> :)

    JG> Umlauts.  They're normally MIME-Encoded, using iso-8859-1. I
    JG> searched through the existing code for "<" and ">"
    JG> substitution as they're correctly substituted by &lt; and
    JG> &gt;. Then I worked out the patch below.

    JG> Unfortunately, "<" and ">" are working as before, but the
    JG> other substitutions are never executed:-( Could anybody please
    JG> give me some hints?

The most bogus part of the Pipermail integration is that lots of stuff
is duplicated not by inheritance, but by cut-and-paste.  That means
even though you think you're changing something, it's really just
overridden in one of the derived classes.

This all needs to be cleaned up. :(

-Barry


From barry@zope.com  Sat Oct 20 22:23:51 2001
From: barry@zope.com (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2001 17:23:51 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-i18n] Special characters in mailman.po
References: <3BBB09F1.9496938F@bibsys.no>
Message-ID: <15313.60263.601602.385752@anthem.wooz.org>

>>>>> "DB" == Daniel Buchmann <db@bibsys.no> writes:

    DB> In the norwegian translation, I used HTML entities for
    DB> mailman.po entries that would end up on a web page, and
    DB> regular letters on entries that would end up in an email or as
    DB> output from a command line utility.  Whether this was the
    DB> right way or wrong way of doing it, I don't know, but I have
    DB> not found any official guidelines of how to do this...

I believe this is the right thing to do.  I've added something to
README-I18N.en.

-Barry


From barry@zope.com  Sat Oct 20 23:01:14 2001
From: barry@zope.com (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2001 18:01:14 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-i18n] Japanese update
References: <3BBE69FA.1C68AFFF@is.kochi-u.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <15313.62506.101403.992559@anthem.wooz.org>

>>>>> "TK" == Tokio Kikuchi <tkikuchi@is.kochi-u.ac.jp> writes:

    TK> Hi, Barry and All

    TK> I have updated my Japanese translation and placed it at
    TK> http://mm.tkikuchi.net/mailman-2.1alpha.ja/mailman.i18n.ja.tar.gz

    TK> I had falsely placed my README.ja in messages directory last
    TK> time.  So, please delete it from CVS. New README.ja is in
    TK> messages/ja within the new tar file.

Thanks, I've committed these files now.

I still need to figure out what to do about the Japanese charset
problem, but I'm going to hold off on that until after the next
alpha (hopefully today or tomorrow).

-Barry


From barry@zope.com  Mon Oct 22 07:17:35 2001
From: barry@zope.com (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 02:17:35 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-i18n] [RELEASED] Mailman 2.1 alpha 3
Message-ID: <15315.47615.891332.994452@anthem.wooz.org>

I've finally decided to put a fork in it and release the third, and
hopefully last alpha in the Mailman 2.1 series.  If you want to see a
description of all the new stuff, please see

    http://sourceforge.net/project/shownotes.php?release_id=58074

There's quite a lot there!

Everything should be up on SourceForge now, with updates to
www.list.org hopefully tomorrow some time.  See also

    http://mailman.sf.net/MM21/

for updated pages about Mailman 2.1.

Note that you no longer need to install the mimelib package.  This has
been replaced by the email package, which comes with Python 2.2b1, or
for Python 2.1.1 or 2.0.1, you'll need to install email-0.93 which is
available in the misc/ directory.  See the INSTALL file for details.

Below is an excerpt from the NEWS file for all the changes since 2.1
alpha 2.  I'm hoping that this will be the last alpha release.  That
means there's one more release in which we have an opportunity for new
features, so I suggest that you grab 2.1a3 and give it a good workout
(in a non-production environment <wink>).  If there are glaring things
missing, as always, let me know.

Please, all discussion about 2.1 alpha should be conducted on the
mailman-developers@python.org mailing list.

I will be creating some test lists on python.org an you'll be able to
subscribe to them to try things out.  I'd like to have a short cycle
for alpha3->beta1, with bug fixes only once beta1 comes out.

Language translators: I've updated the langpack on SourceForge with
the latest catalogs and templates.  I've also uploaded the latest
README-I18N.en file if you'd like to contribute new languages.  If
you've been holding off contributing new language files, please
consider finishing them off so that I can integrate them in time for
beta1.

Enjoy,
-Barry

-------------------- snip snip --------------------
2.1 alpha 3 (22-Oct-2001)

    - Realname support
        o Mailman now tracks a member's Real Name in addition to their
          email address.

        o List members can now supply their Real Names when
          subscribing via the web.  Their Real Names are parsed from
          any thru-email subscriptions.

        o Members can change their Real Names on their options page,
          and admins can change members' Real Names on the membership
          pages.  Mass subscribing accepts "email@dom.ain (Real Name)"
          entries, for both in-text-box and file-upload mass
          subscriptions.

    - Filtering and Privacy
        o Reply-To: munging has been enhanced to allow a wider range
          of list policies.  You can now pre-strip any Reply-To:
          headers before adding list-specific ones (i.e. you can
          override or extend existing Reply-To: headers).  If
          stripping, the old headers are no longer saved on
          X-Reply-To:

        o New sender moderation rules.  The old `posters',
          `member_only_posting', `moderated' and `forbidden_posters'
          options have been removed in favor of a new moderation
          scheme.  Each member has a personal moderation bit, and
          non-member postings can be automatically accepted, held for
          approval, rejected (bounced) or discarded.

        o When membership rosters are private, responses to
          subscription (and other) requests are made more generic so
          that these processes can't be covertly mined for hidden
          addresses.  If a subscription request comes in for a user
          who is already subscribed, the user is notified of potential
          membership mining.

        o When a held message is approved via the admindb page, an
          X-Moderated: header is added to the message.

        o List admins can now set an unsubscribe policy which requires
          them to approve of member unsubscriptions.

    - Web U/I
        o All web confirmations now require a two-click procedure,
          where the first click gives them a page that allows them to
          confirm or cancel their subscription.  It is bad form for an
          email click (HTTP GET) to have side effects.

        o Lots of improvements for clarity.

        o The Privacy category has grown three subcategories.

        o The General options page as a number of subsection headers.

        o The Passwords and Languages categories are now on separate
          admin pages.

        o The admin subcategories are now formated as two columns in
          the top and bottom legends.

        o When creating a list through the web, you can now specify
          the initial list of supported languages.

        o The U/I for unsubscribing a member on the admin's membership
          page should be more intuitive now.

        o There is now a separate configuration option for whether the
          goodbye_msg is sent when a member is unsubscribed.

    - Performance
        o misc/mailman is a Unix init script, appropriate for
          /etc/init.d, and containing chkconfig hooks for systems that
          support it.

        o bin/mailmanctl has been rewritten; the `restart' command
          actually works now.  It now also accepts -s, -q, and -u
          options.

        o bin/qrunner has been rewritten too; it can serve the role of
          the old cron/qrunner script for those who want classic
          cron-invoked mail delivery.

        o Internally, messages are now stored in the qfiles directory
          primarily as pickles.  List configuration databases are now
          stored as pickles too (i.e. config.pck).  bin/dumpdb knows
          how to display both pickles and marshals.

    - Mail delivery
        o If a user's message is held for approval, they are sent a
          notification message containing a confirmation cookie.  They
          can use this confirmation cookie to cancel their own
          postings (if they haven't already been approved).

        o When held messages are forwarded to an explicit address
          using the admindb page, it is done so  in a message/rfc822
          encapsulation.

        o When a message is first held for approval, the notification
          sent to the list admin is a 3-part multipart/mixed.  The
          first part holds the notification message, the second part
          hold the original message, and the third part hold a cookie
          confirmation message, to which the admin can respond to
          approve or discard the message via email.

        o In the mail->news gateway, you can define mail headers that
          must be modified or deleted before the message can be posted
          to the nntp server.

        o The list admin can send an immediate urgent message to the
          entire list membership, bypassing digest delivery.  This is
          done by adding an Urgent: header with the list password.
          Urgent messages with an invalid password are rejected.

        o Lists can now optionally personalize email messages, if the
          site admin allows it.  Personalized messages mean that the
          To: header includes the recipient's address instead of the
          list's address, and header and footer messages can contain
          user-specific information.  Note that only regular
          deliveries can currently be personalized.

        o Message that come from Usenet but that have broken MIME
          boundaries are ignored.

        o If the site administrator agrees, list owners have the
          ability to disable RFC 2369 List-* headers.

    - Building/testing/configuration
        o mimelib is no longer required, but you must install the
          email package (see the tarball in the misc directory).

        o An (as yet) incomplete test suite has been added.  Don't try
          running it in a production environment!

        o Better virtual host support by adding a mapping from the
          host name given in cgi's HTTP_HOST/SERVER_NAME variable to
          the email host used in list addresses.  (E.g. www.python.org
          maps to @python.org).

        o Specifying urls to external public archivers is more
          flexible.

        o The filters/ subdirectory has been removed.

        o There is now a `site list' which is a mailing list that must
          be created first, and from which all password reminders
          appear to come from.  It is recommended that this list be
          called "mailman@your.site".

        o bin/move_list is no longer necessary (see the FAQ for
          detailed instructions on renaming a list).

        o A new script bin/fix_url.py can be used with bin/withlist to
          change a list's web_page_url configuration variable (since
          it is no longer modifiable through the web).

    - Internationalization
        o Support for German, Hungarian, Italian, Japanese, and
          Norwegian have been added.

    - Miscellaneous
        o Lots of new bounce detectors.  Bounce detectors can now
          discard temporary bounce messages by returning a special
          Stop value.

        o bin/withlist now sports a -q/--quiet flag.

        o bin/add_members has a new -a/--admin-notify flag which can
          be used to inhibit list owner notification for each
          subscription.

    - Membership Adaptors
        o Internally, mailing list memberships are accessed through a
          MemberAdaptor interface.  This would allow for integrating
          membership databases with external sources (e.g. Zope or
          LDAP), although the only MemberAdaptor currently implemented
          is a "classic" adaptor which stores the membership
          information on the MailList object.

        o There's a new pipeline handler module called FileRecips.py
          which could be used to get all regular delivery mailing list
          recipients from a Sendmail-style :include: file (see List
          Extensibility bullet below).

          This work was sponsored by Control.com

    - List Extensibility
        o A framework has been added which can be used to specialize
          and extend specific mailing lists.  If there is a file
          called lists/<yourlist>/extend.py, it is execfile()'d after
          the MailList object is instantiated.  The file should
          contain a function extend() which will be called with the
          MailList instance.  This function can do all sorts of deep
          things, like modify the handler pipeline just for this list,
          or even strip out particular admin GUI elements (see below).

        o All the admin page GUI elements are now separate
          components.  This provides greater flexibility for list
          customization.  Also, each GUI element will be given an
          opportunity to handle admin CGI form data.

          This work was sponsored by Control.com

    - Topic Filters
        o A new feature has been added called "Topic Filters".  A list
          administrator can create topics, which are essentially
          regular expression matches against Subject: and Keyword:
          headers (including such pseudo-headers if they appear in the
          first few lines of the body of a message).

          List members can then `subscribe' to various topics, which
          allows them to filter out any messages that don't match a
          topic, or to filter out any message that does match a
          topic.  This can be useful for high volume lists where not
          everyone will be interested in every message.

          This work was sponsored by Control.com


From loewis@informatik.hu-berlin.de  Mon Oct 22 08:55:31 2001
From: loewis@informatik.hu-berlin.de (Martin von Loewis)
Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 09:55:31 +0200 (MEST)
Subject: [Mailman-i18n] Japanese update
In-Reply-To: <15313.62506.101403.992559@anthem.wooz.org> (barry@zope.com)
References: <3BBE69FA.1C68AFFF@is.kochi-u.ac.jp> <15313.62506.101403.992559@anthem.wooz.org>
Message-ID: <200110220755.JAA27240@paros.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

> I still need to figure out what to do about the Japanese charset
> problem, but I'm going to hold off on that until after the next
> alpha (hopefully today or tomorrow).

Can you elaborate a bit what the problem is?

Thanks,
Martin


From pichon@ena.fr  Mon Oct 22 16:20:56 2001
From: pichon@ena.fr (Pichon Eric)
Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 17:20:56 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-i18n] =?iso-8859-1?Q?french_translation_-_traduction_fran=E7aise?=
Message-ID: <E1A1F6AF7F73D411B2230010B540BD828FA45B@endymion.ena.fr>

This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand
this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.

------_=_NextPart_000_01C15B0D.26C53ED0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Bonjour,=20

Voici quelques traductions des mesages de Mailman en fran=E7ais.=20
Je n'ai pas traduit les textes destin=E9s =E0 l'administrateur.=20

Pour les autres fichiers - ceux qui ont une date de modif. du 17/10 - =
j'ai
fait une version bilingue (j'ai laiss=E9 le texte anglais en-dessous du =
texte
fran=E7ais)et j'ai mis des lettres accentu=E9es...


Eric Pichon


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------_=_NextPart_000_01C15B0D.26C53ED0--


From quique@sindominio.net  Tue Oct 23 08:26:12 2001
From: quique@sindominio.net (Quique)
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 07:26:12 -0000
Subject: [Mailman-i18n] french translation - traduction française
In-Reply-To: <E1A1F6AF7F73D411B2230010B540BD828FA45B@endymion.ena.fr>
Message-ID: <20011023072612.579976186B@fanelli.sindominio.net>

Pichon Eric <pichon@ena.fr> dijo:

> Bonjour, 
> 
> Voici quelques traductions des mesages de Mailman en français. 
> Je n'ai pas traduit les textes destinés à l'administrateur. 
> 
> Pour les autres fichiers - ceux qui ont une date de modif. du 17/10 - j'ai
> fait une version bilingue (j'ai laissé le texte anglais en-dessous du texte
> français)et j'ai mis des lettres accentuées...
>
> 
> Eric Pichon


Salut Eric

Barry ne parle pas français, alors tu devrais lui écrire en anglais.

I try to translate to English (remember though that nor English nor French are
my mother tongue):

 I attach here some French translations of the Mailman messages.
 I didn't translate the texts addressed to the administrator.

 For the other files -those modified on Oct 17th- I've made a bilingual 
 version (I've left the English text under the French text) and I've put in
 the special characters.


Quique

-- 
Cuando descubrimos las respuestas, nos cambiaron las preguntas.




From samarta@ci.uc.pt  Tue Oct 23 10:25:07 2001
From: samarta@ci.uc.pt (Joao Sa Marta)
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 10:25:07 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-i18n] Testing the translation ?
In-Reply-To: <15315.47615.891332.994452@anthem.wooz.org>
Message-ID: <DAELJEGEBHFNLMLDGBJPIEDBCNAA.samarta@ci.uc.pt>


Greetings,

I am using mailman 2.0.5.

And I have the whole thing running and supporting several lists.


The question is :

How can I install the new mailman version without removing the 
other one ?

Or, must I upgrade the 2.0.5 version ?


Best regards,


From pichon@ena.fr  Tue Oct 23 15:11:15 2001
From: pichon@ena.fr (Pichon Eric)
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 16:11:15 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-i18n] french translation - traduction francaise
Message-ID: <E1A1F6AF7F73D411B2230010B540BD828FA45E@endymion.ena.fr>

Merci ! C'est parfait ! The english translation of my message is quite
perfect ! =20

I've written in french, since I think that the French are the most
interested in french translations...

Eric Pichon

-----Message d'origine-----
De : Quique [mailto:quique@sindominio.net]
Envoy=E9 : mar. 23 octobre 2001 09:26
=C0 : Pichon Eric
Cc : mailman-i18n@python.org
Objet : Re: [Mailman-i18n] french translation - traduction franaise


Pichon Eric <pichon@ena.fr> dijo:

> Bonjour,=20
>=20
> Voici quelques traductions des mesages de Mailman en fran=E7ais.=20
> Je n'ai pas traduit les textes destin=E9s =E0 l'administrateur.=20
>=20
> Pour les autres fichiers - ceux qui ont une date de modif. du 17/10 - =
j'ai
> fait une version bilingue (j'ai laiss=E9 le texte anglais en-dessous =
du
texte
> fran=E7ais)et j'ai mis des lettres accentu=E9es...
>
>=20
> Eric Pichon


Salut Eric

Barry ne parle pas fran=E7ais, alors tu devrais lui =E9crire en =
anglais.

I try to translate to English (remember though that nor English nor =
French
are
my mother tongue):

 I attach here some French translations of the Mailman messages.
 I didn't translate the texts addressed to the administrator.

 For the other files -those modified on Oct 17th- I've made a bilingual =

 version (I've left the English text under the French text) and I've =
put in
 the special characters.


Quique

--=20
Cuando descubrimos las respuestas, nos cambiaron las preguntas.



From pekka.haavisto@mtt.fi  Wed Oct 24 06:47:57 2001
From: pekka.haavisto@mtt.fi (Pekka Haavisto)
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 08:47:57 +0300
Subject: [Mailman-i18n] Finnish translation
Message-ID: <004301c15c4f$6ef4bff0$2d9589c2@mtt.fi>

Hi...

Have anyone made a Finnish translation of Mailman?


---
Pekka
pekka.haavisto@mtt.fi



From s167666@siwy.il.pw.edu.pl  Wed Oct 24 11:19:13 2001
From: s167666@siwy.il.pw.edu.pl (Zaborowski Marcin)
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 12:19:13 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: [Mailman-i18n] Re: polish translation
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0110241211280.5332-100000@siwy.il.pw.edu.pl>

Hi!
I've read the archives and know that two people from Poland are doing
translation. Maby i could help them. Please told me what is to do.

Regards.

--
Marcin Zaborowski
m.zaborowski@il.pw.edu.pl



From barry@zope.com  Thu Oct 25 05:50:34 2001
From: barry@zope.com (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 00:50:34 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-i18n] Re: polish translation
References: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0110241211280.5332-100000@siwy.il.pw.edu.pl>
Message-ID: <15319.39450.782064.919871@anthem.wooz.org>

>>>>> "ZM" == Zaborowski Marcin <s167666@siwy.il.pw.edu.pl> writes:

    ZM> Hi!  I've read the archives and know that two people from
    ZM> Poland are doing translation. Maby i could help them. Please
    ZM> told me what is to do.

I'd /love/ to get Polish translations in, for, er, obvious reasons.
Can I add you to the list of Polish translators in

    http://www.list.org/MM21/i18n.html

?

Be sure to read the README-I18.en file for guidelines.

-Barry


From barry@zope.com  Thu Oct 25 06:49:02 2001
From: barry@zope.com (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 01:49:02 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-i18n] Finnish translation
References: <004301c15c4f$6ef4bff0$2d9589c2@mtt.fi>
Message-ID: <15319.42958.268012.786946@anthem.wooz.org>

>>>>> "PH" == Pekka Haavisto <pekka.haavisto@mtt.fi> writes:

    PH> Have anyone made a Finnish translation of Mailman?

No one that I'm aware of.  Can I put you down as the Finnish
translator?

-Barry


From s167666@siwy.il.pw.edu.pl  Fri Oct 26 08:54:41 2001
From: s167666@siwy.il.pw.edu.pl (Zaborowski Marcin)
Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 09:54:41 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: [Mailman-i18n] Re: polish translation
In-Reply-To: <15319.39450.782064.919871@anthem.wooz.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0110260941290.27698-100000@siwy.il.pw.edu.pl>

On Thu, 25 Oct 2001, Barry A. Warsaw wrote:

> I'd /love/ to get Polish translations in, for, er, obvious reasons.
> Can I add you to the list of Polish translators in

Yes, you can put me as Polish translator,
wanted already sent me a new langpack.

--
Marcin Zaborowski
m.zaborowski@il.pw.edu.pl



From barry@zope.com  Sat Oct 27 06:42:37 2001
From: barry@zope.com (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2001 01:42:37 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-i18n] french translation - traduction française
References: <E1A1F6AF7F73D411B2230010B540BD828FA45B@endymion.ena.fr>
 <20011023072612.579976186B@fanelli.sindominio.net>
Message-ID: <15322.18765.441491.66343@anthem.wooz.org>

>>>>> "Q" =3D=3D Quique  <quique@sindominio.net> writes:

    Q> Salut Eric

    Q> Barry ne parle pas fran=E7ais, alors tu devrais lui =E9crire en
    Q> anglais.

    Q> I try to translate to English (remember though that nor English
    Q> nor French are my mother tongue):

    Q>  I attach here some French translations of the Mailman
    Q> messages.  I didn't translate the texts addressed to the
    Q> administrator.

    Q>  For the other files -those modified on Oct 17th- I've made a
    Q> bilingual version (I've left the English text under the French
    Q> text) and I've put in the special characters.

Thanks for the translation!  I've forwarded these on to Ousmane
Wilane, who is in charge of the French translations.  I'd like for him
to integrate them into his templates and forward to me any updates
that are necessary.

Thanks for the contribution.

-Barry


From wanted@mwd.pl  Sat Oct 27 11:34:25 2001
From: wanted@mwd.pl (Marcin Sochacki)
Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2001 12:34:25 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-i18n] langpack-22-Oct-2001 broken?
Message-ID: <20011027123425.A20774@debian.mwd.pl>

Hello,

Correct me if I'm wrong, but mailman.pot seems to be broken in
langpack-22-Oct-2001.tgz.

I've found it way too small -- it's only 120480 bytes, and the previous
one from 04-Sep-2001 was 164480 bytes long. The difference is caused
mainly by the lack of references to bin/* files.

I took a quick look into CVS, and there is a version 2.12 of that file
which seems to have them back. Which one should we (the translators)
choose?

Marcin


From vizisz@freemail.hu  Sat Oct 27 12:57:45 2001
From: vizisz@freemail.hu (Szilard Vizi)
Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2001 13:57:45 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-i18n] langpack-22-Oct-2001 broken?
In-Reply-To: <20011027123425.A20774@debian.mwd.pl>; from wanted@mwd.pl on Sat, Oct 27, 2001 at 12:34:25PM +0200
References: <20011027123425.A20774@debian.mwd.pl>
Message-ID: <20011027135744.D875@freemail.hu>

Hello,

Marcin Sochacki writes:
> Correct me if I'm wrong, but mailman.pot seems to be broken in
> langpack-22-Oct-2001.tgz.
Yes, you can say that, a few things are missing from the catalog.

> mainly by the lack of references to bin/* files.
Mainly this causes the smaller size of the new catalog.
 
> I took a quick look into CVS, and there is a version 2.12 of that file
> which seems to have them back. Which one should we (the translators)
> choose?
Barry was really quick, he made a newer catalog what includes the
texts from the bin/ files, and a few modifications, like:
  #: Mailman/Cgi/admin.py:731
  msgid "<br>(Details for <b>%(varname)s</b>)"

I suggest to use the latest one, since it is better.

Szilard Vizi
-------------
mailto:vizisz@freemail.hu             UIN:10676592


From barry@zope.com  Sat Oct 27 16:18:00 2001
From: barry@zope.com (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2001 11:18:00 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-i18n] langpack-22-Oct-2001 broken?
References: <20011027123425.A20774@debian.mwd.pl>
Message-ID: <15322.53288.633433.595340@anthem.wooz.org>

>>>>> "MS" == Marcin Sochacki <wanted@mwd.pl> writes:

    MS> Correct me if I'm wrong, but mailman.pot seems to be broken in
    MS> langpack-22-Oct-2001.tgz.

    MS> I've found it way too small -- it's only 120480 bytes, and the
    MS> previous one from 04-Sep-2001 was 164480 bytes long. The
    MS> difference is caused mainly by the lack of references to bin/*
    MS> files.

    MS> I took a quick look into CVS, and there is a version 2.12 of
    MS> that file which seems to have them back. Which one should we
    MS> (the translators) choose?

Yes, the langpack-22-Oct-2001 is broken and the CVS one is fixed.  I
will try to get a new langpack (and alpha4) out this weekend.  One
hitch is that the SF file release seems to be broken, although it's
scheduled to be fixed today.

-Barry


From sales@bcn3net.com  Tue Oct 30 17:26:06 2001
From: sales@bcn3net.com (BCN Ltd)
Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 17:26:06 -0000
Subject: [Mailman-i18n] 50% Discount On Software Development
Message-ID: <E15ycfv-0001Ya-00@mail.python.org>

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    <TD align=left vAlign=center><B><FONT color=#006699 face=Tahoma size=5>BCN 
      Ltd<BR>50% Price Reductions On Software Development</FONT></B></TD>
    <TD align=right vAlign=center width=0><A><IMG border=0 height=77 src="http://www.bcn3net.com/images/bcn_logo.gif" 
      width=166 tr <> </A></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
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  <TBODY>
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    <TD bgColor=#00ccff width=170><B><FONT face=Tahoma size=2><BR><A 
      href="http://www.bcn3net.com/">BCN Web Site</A><BR><BR><A < font></B>
      <P></P></FONT><FONT face=Tahoma size=1><B><FONT color=#006699>About Us</B> 
      <BR>BCN builds corporate Intranets and effective Knowledge Management 
      Solutions for small and medium sized organisations. We have delivered 
      solutions to BSI, Unilever, Compaq, Nomura and many small organisations.<BR>
      <P></P><B>What's Up This Month?&nbsp;</B><BR>Our team of software 
      developers have successfully developed a major enterprise information 
      portal solution and are now ready to tackle your requirements. This 
      project was developed by our team in India but managed from the 
      UK. This combines the benefit of off-shore pricing with on-shore project 
      management. 
      <P><B>The Benefits For You?&nbsp;</B><BR>As we know IT development often 
      suffers from time delays and spiraling costs. Outsourcing is a proven 
      model for at least part of your requirements. The cost benefits are 
      outstanding and the quality and dependability are unsurpassed - our 
      programmers work a minimum 6 day week and don't snowboard! That's 24 days 
      a month instead of 20. 
      <P><BR></A></P></FONT></FONT></TD>
    <TD bgColor=#0099cc>
      <P><FONT face=Tahoma size=3><B>BCN Announces the Immediate Availability of 
      Programming Capacity </B></FONT></P>
      <P><FONT face=Tahoma size=2>BCN has recently successfully completed a 
      significant software development project and for a limited period can 
      provide you with software development capability at 50% discount on normal 
      prices. 
      <P>We can provide short, medium and long term resources or undertake fixed 
      price contracts. 
      <P>Tick the relevant boxes and we will contact you immediately to discuss 
      your specific requirements. 
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                  &nbsp; &nbsp; <INPUT id=sub2 onclick=chkForm() type=button value=Submit><BR></TD></TR>
              <DIV></DIV></TBODY></TABLE>
            <P><FONT face=Tahoma size=2>Our normal rates are up to £650 per day 
            for senior developers - for contracts placed during the remainder of 
            2001 we are offering discounts of 50% on this usual daily rate. 
            Prefer a fixed price contract? - no problem. 
            <P>BCN capabilities will enable you to:<li>Reduce the backlog<li>
            Reduce programming costs<li>Increase speed of delivery<li>Provide flexibility
            in resourcing 
            <P></FONT></P>
            <P><FONT face=Tahoma size=2>Send an email to <A 
            href="mailto:simon.mercer@bcn3net.com"><FONT 
            color=#000000>simon.mercer@bcn3net.com</FONT></A> to discuss 
            specific projects.</FONT></P></FONT></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
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            size=1>© Copyright BCN Ltd 1999-2001 - All rights 
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