From barry at list.org Mon Jul 11 13:05:46 2016 From: barry at list.org (Barry Warsaw) Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2016 13:05:46 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Templates branch for Mailman 3.1 Message-ID: <20160711130546.13041c96@subdivisions.wooz.org> Hello developers! There are three big features still in progress for Mailman 3.1, the templates branch, MySQL support, and unsubscription workflow. There is already a merge request for MySQL support and I'm hoping to merge that soon. Abhilash is also working on the unsubscription workflow feature but there's no MR for that yet. The templates feature is very nearly done, so I think now is a good time to ask for testing, feedback, and review. This is a generalization of the welcome_message_uri feature in MM3.0 where you could specify e.g. the welcome message as a URL to download and cache when necessary. This is important because Core doesn't know whether there is even a web ui (e.g. Postorius) involved, or where things like clickable links to unsubscribe would be. Sites also want to customize footers to include information like codes of conduct, etc. Now (or when this branch lands), you will be able to specify a URL to retrieve any template that Mailman uses internally, whether they are confirmation messages, bounce probes, welcome and goodbye messages, etc. These can be templates for administrators, users, and members. Because I'm hoping to get some reviews, I'll point you at the documentation for more details: https://gitlab.com/warsaw/mailman/blob/templates/src/mailman/rest/docs/templates.rst The branch did end up being much bigger and tentacled than I expected, but it's all hanging together pretty well now, and all the tests pass. There's still a small number of to-dos, but some of them will get punted, and the others won't have a major effect on the overall use and visibility of the feature. https://gitlab.com/warsaw/mailman/blob/templates/TODO.rst Note also that if you interact with the REST API v3.0, nothing changes externally, but the old IMailingList attributes are mapped onto the new templates mechanism. API v3.1 is where you see all the actual new feature end-points exposed. Of course, any MM2 list converted to MM3.1 will use the new templates stuff too. Feedback very much welcome, either here or on the MR: https://gitlab.com/mailman/mailman/merge_requests/170 I'd like to land this some time in the next week or so. Then I'll work on the other two big branches and start to release some betas. Cheers, -Barry -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 819 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From barry at list.org Tue Jul 12 21:34:24 2016 From: barry at list.org (Barry Warsaw) Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2016 21:34:24 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Countdown to the 3.1 release Message-ID: <20160712213424.490f5ce1@anarchist.wooz.org> Previously I mentioned the three big outstanding branches that I'd like to land for Mailman 3.1 Core, the templates branch, the MySQL support branch, and the unsubscription workflow branch. I've now also gone through all the bugs previously targeted to milestone 3.1, and there are only three left: https://gitlab.com/mailman/mailman/milestones/2 I think these are important enough to fix for 3.1 and I welcome merge requests while the other three branches are ongoing. Please take a look at any other bugs not assigned to milestone 3.1 and let me know if you think any are serious enough to block the 3.1 release. I'll say in advance that I'm going to be brutal in assessing them, because 3.1 really needs to be released soon! Note too that there may be blockers for Postorius, Hyperkitty, and mailman.client, but I haven't looked at those subprojects yet. How close are they to being release ready? Cheers, -Barry -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 819 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From simon.hanna at serve-me.info Wed Jul 13 06:18:37 2016 From: simon.hanna at serve-me.info (Simon Hanna) Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2016 12:18:37 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Countdown to the 3.1 release In-Reply-To: <20160712213424.490f5ce1@anarchist.wooz.org> References: <20160712213424.490f5ce1@anarchist.wooz.org> Message-ID: > Please take a look at any other bugs not assigned to milestone 3.1 and let me > know if you think any are serious enough to block the 3.1 release. I'll say > in advance that I'm going to be brutal in assessing them, because 3.1 really > needs to be released soon! I guess https://gitlab.com/mailman/mailman/issues/219 should be fixed in the next release. If 3.1 find its way into repositories, we will get lot's of issue reports for this I suppose. > Note too that there may be blockers for Postorius, Hyperkitty, and > mailman.client, but I haven't looked at those subprojects yet. How close are > they to being release ready? Terri was working on this one, it's not critical but nice to have for usability https://gitlab.com/mailman/postorius/merge_requests/159 I have a mr pending for mailmanclient that should be included in the next release https://gitlab.com/mailman/mailmanclient/merge_requests/10 Postorius has a number of merge requests open. I'm not sure which of them should be merged before the next release Does your template branch in core need any immediate modifications to mailmanclient and/or postorius? cheers, Simon From barry at list.org Wed Jul 13 09:37:27 2016 From: barry at list.org (Barry Warsaw) Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2016 09:37:27 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Countdown to the 3.1 release In-Reply-To: References: <20160712213424.490f5ce1@anarchist.wooz.org> Message-ID: <20160713093727.16d12b56.barry@wooz.org> On Jul 13, 2016, at 12:18 PM, Simon Hanna wrote: >I guess https://gitlab.com/mailman/mailman/issues/219 should be fixed in >the next release. If 3.1 find its way into repositories, we will get >lot's of issue reports for this I suppose. Thanks Simon. I've put this in the 3.1 milestone and will take a look. >Terri was working on this one, it's not critical but nice to have for >usability >https://gitlab.com/mailman/postorius/merge_requests/159 ack. >I have a mr pending for mailmanclient that should be included in the >next release >https://gitlab.com/mailman/mailmanclient/merge_requests/10 I've added a 3.1 milestone to mailmanclient and assigned this one to it. >Postorius has a number of merge requests open. I'm not sure which of >them should be merged before the next release Florian, do you have time in the next few weeks to do some Postorius triaging? >Does your template branch in core need any immediate modifications to >mailmanclient and/or postorius? It shouldn't, at least for API 3.0. All the new template APIs are exposed on v3.1 only, and when using the v3.0 API, they should map the old attribute names to the new mechanisms, so it should all be transparent. Modulo bugs of course. ;) I think it would be nice if mailmanclient and/or Postorius used the v3.1 API to get the full power of the templates branch, but it's probably not critical for the current release. Flo and I did talk about adding a cli that Postorius could call when installing it next to a v3.1 Core, e.g. to install some default templates for a cohabitating Postorius, but on further thought, it would be just as easy to write a bit of Python code to install those templates. Note though that someone would have to write the templates and ship them with Postorius, but they could be done using file: URLs into the Postorius install directory. That would be a fun project for someone to tackle, and I'd be happy to answer any questions that come up. Cheers, -Barry From simon.hanna at serve-me.info Sun Jul 17 13:06:33 2016 From: simon.hanna at serve-me.info (Simon Hanna) Date: Sun, 17 Jul 2016 19:06:33 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Docker files for mailman Message-ID: <3023406d-c6dd-75a5-b4ea-798c3dc3465b@serve-me.info> Hi, I started working on docker files for Mailman. I created three repositories: - https://github.com/simonsmiley/postorius-docker Holds the files needed to create a postorius container - https://github.com/simonsmiley/mailman-docker Holds the files needed to create a core container - https://github.com/simonsmiley/mailman-compose Holds docker-compose files that greatly simply the process of running the containers * The mailman repo currently lacks documentation * Currently no emails can be sent. I still have to figure out what the best way is... * Hyperkitty will be added next (together with a complete "bundler" install) I pushed two images to the docker hub. Their names are thelinuxguy/postorius and thelinuxguy/mailman I created two organizations mailman on docker hub and gnu-mailman on github https://github.com/gnu-mailman https://hub.docker.com/u/mailman/ I know we shouldn't use github, but there is no way around github/bitbucket for automated builds on docker hub. I post here to inform you about the docker images and I also to ask if I'm allowed to keep these two organizations and move my images/repos there. I'll happily give push/owner access to additional people if requested. The repositories could be mirrored to the gitlab mailman group, sadly the process doesn't work the other way round just yet. In case this request gets denied, I'll just remove the organizations and let the images be "unofficial". cheers, Simon From jwt at onjapan.net Sun Jul 24 03:05:58 2016 From: jwt at onjapan.net (Jim Tittsler) Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2016 16:05:58 +0900 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] wiki.list.org theme Message-ID: <90756ccd-18cb-4171-0494-1bfbb416bc61@onjapan.net> In February, 2015 I changed the wiki.list.org theme to match the then current Mailman site theme. Since then, list.org got a much needed makeover. I've been trying to avoid volunteering to update the wiki theme, but you've cleverly out-waited me. May I have access to the wiki machine so that I can change the theme with access to the current content? Or, would someone be willing to archive up the current content/config and send it to me? The last time I overlooked some of the corner cases because I was working with my standard MoinMoin rather than the wiki.list.org content and configuration. Jim -- Jim Tittsler, Tokyo irc.freenode.net From mark at msapiro.net Sun Jul 24 10:40:32 2016 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2016 07:40:32 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] wiki.list.org theme In-Reply-To: <90756ccd-18cb-4171-0494-1bfbb416bc61@onjapan.net> References: <90756ccd-18cb-4171-0494-1bfbb416bc61@onjapan.net> Message-ID: <3ece1abf-25e8-db48-d957-2f1c513f03a6@msapiro.net> On 7/24/16 12:05 AM, Jim Tittsler wrote: > In February, 2015 I changed the wiki.list.org theme to match the then > current Mailman site theme. Since then, list.org got a much needed > makeover. I've been trying to avoid volunteering to update the wiki > theme, but you've cleverly out-waited me. Thanks for volunteering Jim. Actually, the current site is a hybrid. There is still some 'old theme' stuff at, e.g. , but none of that is linked from the new site. > May I have access to the wiki machine so that I can change the theme > with access to the current content? Absolutely. Please send me an ed25519 or rsa public key and your preferred user name if not 'jwt' in a pgp signed email and I'll set you up. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From anirudhdahiya9 at gmail.com Fri Jul 29 04:36:34 2016 From: anirudhdahiya9 at gmail.com (Anirudh Dahiya) Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2016 14:06:34 +0530 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Blog Post: GSoC : Message Queue based archiver project Message-ID: Hi I've put up a blog post mentioning the progress made in the project. http://codefullofsummer.blogspot.in/2016/07/a-long-due-post-status-update.html Thanks Anirudh Dahiya (irc spark_) From barry at list.org Fri Jul 29 17:19:16 2016 From: barry at list.org (Barry Warsaw) Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2016 17:19:16 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Blog Post: GSoC : Message Queue based archiver project In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20160729171916.75c51475.barry@wooz.org> On Jul 29, 2016, at 02:06 PM, Anirudh Dahiya wrote: >I've put up a blog post mentioning the progress made in the project. >http://codefullofsummer.blogspot.in/2016/07/a-long-due-post-status-update.html Very cool, thanks for the blog post! We had a great discussion this morning on IRC about the Core issues and I think you have a plan for going forward. There's still a little sticky bit about how to handle the database migration, but we should be able to figure that out. Keep up the great work! Cheers, -Barry From barry at list.org Fri Jul 29 22:40:06 2016 From: barry at list.org (Barry Warsaw) Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2016 22:40:06 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Thinking about Gmane Message-ID: <20160729224006.3b00de04@subdivisions.wooz.org> You may have seen this post from Lars Ingebrigtsen of Gnus and Gmane fame; it was linked from Slashdot over the weekend: https://lars.ingebrigtsen.no/2016/07/28/the-end-of-gmane/ If you're not familiar with Gmane, you really should check it out while you can. I think it's the perfect companion to Mailman, providing free archives for open source mailing lists of all kind. My favorite thing about it is the NNTP interface to mailing list archives. Remember Usenet? It's really NNTP underneath and there are some excellent news readers that let you have very good access to years of older posts. I am a Claw-Mail user and it provides a fairly seamless integration of regular email and news (e.g. Gmane over NNTP). The powerful thing for me is that for mailing lists I care about, but don't want to be subscribed to, I can just catch up every so often on the Gmane newsgroup. I can even post from the Gmane mirror, and I don't have to keep personal archives of any mirrored public mailing list. All the Mailman lists are available on Gmane. But Lars has apparently burned out and is considering shuddering Gmane. This would be a huge loss for the FLOSS community IMHO, and I hope the outpouring of goodwill on his blog posts (along with any donations of time, resources, and money) will keep Gmane alive. It seems like all might not be lost: https://lars.ingebrigtsen.no/2016/07/28/the-end-of-gmane/comment-page-1/#comment-13502 Getting back to Mailman, I've long wanted a built-in NNTP interface to mailing list archives. Long ago I prototyped a bridge from Mailman 2 to NNTP via Twisted. It wasn't that much work, but of course it was only a prototype. With Mailman 3's architecture, I think it would be a fairly straightforward project, so I'm here to hopefully excite and challenge one of *you* to think about doing it. :) Of course, it wouldn't be Gmane, and I'm not sure we need exactly that. First, it wouldn't be federated across the wide FLOSS world, but it would still be extremely useful. Second, we have so much goodness in HyperKitty that the web side of Gmane wouldn't be as important for us. Still, the ability to have direct NNTP access to mailing list archives built into Mailman 3 would be really darn cool, IMHO. As an aside, Lars would make the whole of the Gmane spool available, and it might be really cool to see how well HK can consume and vend it. Given that Lars seems to say that it's more likely that the NNTP/SMTP bridge will survive, but not the web ui. Wouldn't it be cool if HK could serve as a modern version of a web ui to the Gmane treasure trove? Anyway, I'm putting this out there - hopefully some one of you might be willing and able to take it up. Cheers, -Barry -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 819 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From turnbull.stephen.fw at u.tsukuba.ac.jp Sat Jul 30 03:09:20 2016 From: turnbull.stephen.fw at u.tsukuba.ac.jp (Stephen J. Turnbull) Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2016 16:09:20 +0900 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Thinking about Gmane In-Reply-To: <20160729224006.3b00de04@subdivisions.wooz.org> References: <20160729224006.3b00de04@subdivisions.wooz.org> Message-ID: <22428.21152.856150.254701@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> Barry Warsaw writes: > Lars seems to say that it's more likely that the NNTP/SMTP bridge > will survive, but not the web ui. I would expect this, since NNTP and SMTP both have independent clients. But the Web UI *is* the client (not the browsers, which are "thin" clients). That means that supporting a web UI requires a lot of development resources to respond to the slings and arrows of outrageous (and outraged) users. > Wouldn't it be cool if HK could serve as a modern version of a web > ui to the Gmane treasure trove? I think the first thing to do would be to compare the HK UI and Gmane's UI, and see if there are any features of Gmane we can and should adopt. Steve