From sonali.ellath95 at gmail.com  Mon Feb  1 20:39:28 2016
From: sonali.ellath95 at gmail.com (Sonali Ellath)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2016 07:09:28 +0530
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Error creating new list
Message-ID: <CAN1fRaFXMccqFmwpW7iu3JZUrOqvQTZaMY9H70tg3qKbL_wmWw@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

I built mailman-bundler using the guidelines found here
<https://gitlab.com/mailman/mailman-bundler>.

Server started successfully and and I created few domains. It worked well
but when I tried to create a list, I received

HTTP Error 500: A server error occurred. Please contact the administrator.

Traceback:
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/lib/python3.4/wsgiref/handlers.py", line 137, in run
    self.result = application(self.environ, self.start_response)
  File
"github/mailman/mailman-bundler/venv-3.4/lib/python3.4/site-packages/mailman/database/transaction.py",
line 57, in wrapper
    rtn = function(*args, **kws)
  File
"github/mailman/mailman-bundler/venv-3.4/lib/python3.4/site-packages/mailman/rest/wsgiapp.py",
line 65, in __call__
    environ, start_response)
  File
"github/mailman/mailman-bundler/venv-3.4/lib/python3.4/site-packages/falcon/api.py",
line 182, in __call__
    responder(req, resp, **params)
  File
"github/mailman/mailman-bundler/venv-3.4/lib/python3.4/site-packages/mailman/rest/lists.py",
line 206, in on_post
    mlist = create_list(**validator(request))
  File
"github/mailman/mailman-bundler/venv-3.4/lib/python3.4/site-packages/mailman/app/lifecycle.py",
line 81, in create_list
    call_name(config.mta.incoming).create(mlist)
  File
"github/mailman/mailman-bundler/venv-3.4/lib/python3.4/site-packages/mailman/mta/postfix.py",
line 69, in create
    self.regenerate()
  File
"github/mailman/mailman-bundler/venv-3.4/lib/python3.4/site-packages/mailman/mta/postfix.py",
line 104, in regenerate
    raise RuntimeError(NL.join(errors))
RuntimeError: command failure: /usr/sbin/postmap
github/mailman/mailman-bundler/var/data/postfix_lmtp, 127, Key has expired
command failure: /usr/sbin/postmap
github/mailman/mailman-bundler/var/data/postfix_domains, 127, Key has
expired

Domain Details:
Mail Host: lists.example.com
URL Host: http://lists.example.com

Please Help!

Thanks,
Sonali

From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Feb  1 20:52:57 2016
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2016 17:52:57 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Error creating new list
In-Reply-To: <CAN1fRaFXMccqFmwpW7iu3JZUrOqvQTZaMY9H70tg3qKbL_wmWw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAN1fRaFXMccqFmwpW7iu3JZUrOqvQTZaMY9H70tg3qKbL_wmWw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <56B00BF9.9010307@msapiro.net>

On 02/01/2016 05:39 PM, Sonali Ellath wrote:

> RuntimeError: command failure: /usr/sbin/postmap
> github/mailman/mailman-bundler/var/data/postfix_lmtp, 127, Key has expired
> command failure: /usr/sbin/postmap
> github/mailman/mailman-bundler/var/data/postfix_domains, 127, Key has
> expired


Is Postfix installed? Can you run /usr/sbin/postmap manually?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From sonali.ellath95 at gmail.com  Mon Feb  1 21:24:48 2016
From: sonali.ellath95 at gmail.com (Sonali Ellath)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2016 07:54:48 +0530
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Error creating new list
In-Reply-To: <56B00BF9.9010307@msapiro.net>
References: <CAN1fRaFXMccqFmwpW7iu3JZUrOqvQTZaMY9H70tg3qKbL_wmWw@mail.gmail.com>
 <56B00BF9.9010307@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <CAN1fRaGV6f6-4Mv1OE6NOpJxp6U=bNmgf3d5FS5eosxXQtTH3w@mail.gmail.com>

Postfix was not installed. I installed it, and it works works now.

Thanks

On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 7:22 AM, Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:

> On 02/01/2016 05:39 PM, Sonali Ellath wrote:
>
> > RuntimeError: command failure: /usr/sbin/postmap
> > github/mailman/mailman-bundler/var/data/postfix_lmtp, 127, Key has
> expired
> > command failure: /usr/sbin/postmap
> > github/mailman/mailman-bundler/var/data/postfix_domains, 127, Key has
> > expired
>
>
> Is Postfix installed? Can you run /usr/sbin/postmap manually?
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
> _______________________________________________
> Mailman-Developers mailing list
> Mailman-Developers at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers
> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
> Searchable Archives:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-developers%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe:
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-developers/sonali.ellath95%40gmail.com
>
> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
>

From sonali.ellath95 at gmail.com  Mon Feb  1 22:43:51 2016
From: sonali.ellath95 at gmail.com (Sonali Ellath)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2016 09:13:51 +0530
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Changes not getting reflected in Postorius
Message-ID: <CAN1fRaF91yJpspMLpYehecGuwMbuayGFcaXtZ-TgcrW24BHm3Q@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

I made some simple UI changes (remove a entry from ChoiceField) but when I
build the project using buildout, and run the server, my changes are not
getting reflected.

I doubt that I am not making the build properly. The process I followed:
./bin/buildout
./bin/mailman stop
./bin/mailman start
./bin/mailman-web-django-admin runserver

The changes don't get reflected at 127.0.0.1:8000/mailman3


Thanks,
Sonali

From fsantiago at garbage-juice.com  Tue Feb  2 11:17:51 2016
From: fsantiago at garbage-juice.com (fsantiago at garbage-juice.com)
Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2016 11:17:51 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] 500 internal server error when accessing
 /postorius/
Message-ID: <66317a3c97781583feb1649a395a4a67@garbage-juice.com>

Hello,

I've installed mailman3, postorius, and hyperkitty from the repo:

http://repos.fedorapeople.org/repos/abompard/hyperkitty/stable/fedora-$releasever/$basearch/

on centos 7. i have python 2.7 & 3.4 installed as well.

mailman3 server starts fine (seemingly).

But in apache i'm receiving the following error logs:

Tue Feb 02 11:08:37.673184 2016] [:error] [pid 12349] [remote 
69.122.57.26:200] mod_wsgi (pid=12349): Exception occurred processing 
WSGI script '/etc/postorius/sites/default/srv/postorius.wsgi'.
[Tue Feb 02 11:08:37.673315 2016] [:error] [pid 12349] [remote 
69.122.57.26:200] Traceback (most recent call last):
[Tue Feb 02 11:08:37.673362 2016] [:error] [pid 12349] [remote 
69.122.57.26:200]   File 
"/usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages/django/core/handlers/wsgi.py", line 
170, in __call__
[Tue Feb 02 11:08:37.673509 2016] [:error] [pid 12349] [remote 
69.122.57.26:200]     self.load_middleware()
[Tue Feb 02 11:08:37.673561 2016] [:error] [pid 12349] [remote 
69.122.57.26:200]   File 
"/usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages/django/core/handlers/base.py", line 
52, in load_middleware
[Tue Feb 02 11:08:37.673679 2016] [:error] [pid 12349] [remote 
69.122.57.26:200]     mw_instance = mw_class()
[Tue Feb 02 11:08:37.673709 2016] [:error] [pid 12349] [remote 
69.122.57.26:200]   File 
"/usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages/django/middleware/locale.py", line 24, 
in __init__
[Tue Feb 02 11:08:37.673790 2016] [:error] [pid 12349] [remote 
69.122.57.26:200]     for url_pattern in 
get_resolver(None).url_patterns:
[Tue Feb 02 11:08:37.673834 2016] [:error] [pid 12349] [remote 
69.122.57.26:200]   File 
"/usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages/django/core/urlresolvers.py", line 
401, in url_patterns
[Tue Feb 02 11:08:37.674029 2016] [:error] [pid 12349] [remote 
69.122.57.26:200]     patterns = getattr(self.urlconf_module, 
"urlpatterns", self.urlconf_module)
[Tue Feb 02 11:08:37.674120 2016] [:error] [pid 12349] [remote 
69.122.57.26:200]   File 
"/usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages/django/core/urlresolvers.py", line 
395, in urlconf_module
[Tue Feb 02 11:08:37.674162 2016] [:error] [pid 12349] [remote 
69.122.57.26:200]     self._urlconf_module = 
import_module(self.urlconf_name)
[Tue Feb 02 11:08:37.674190 2016] [:error] [pid 12349] [remote 
69.122.57.26:200]   File "/usr/lib64/python2.7/importlib/__init__.py", 
line 37, in import_module
[Tue Feb 02 11:08:37.674249 2016] [:error] [pid 12349] [remote 
69.122.57.26:200]     __import__(name)
[Tue Feb 02 11:08:37.674276 2016] [:error] [pid 12349] [remote 
69.122.57.26:200]   File "/etc/postorius/sites/default/urls.py", line 
26, in <module>
[Tue Feb 02 11:08:37.674337 2016] [:error] [pid 12349] [remote 
69.122.57.26:200]     admin.autodiscover()
[Tue Feb 02 11:08:37.674363 2016] [:error] [pid 12349] [remote 
69.122.57.26:200]   File 
"/usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages/django/contrib/admin/__init__.py", 
line 24, in autodiscover
[Tue Feb 02 11:08:37.674416 2016] [:error] [pid 12349] [remote 
69.122.57.26:200]     autodiscover_modules('admin', register_to=site)
[Tue Feb 02 11:08:37.674442 2016] [:error] [pid 12349] [remote 
69.122.57.26:200]   File 
"/usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages/django/utils/module_loading.py", line 
67, in autodiscover_modules
[Tue Feb 02 11:08:37.674526 2016] [:error] [pid 12349] [remote 
69.122.57.26:200]     for app_config in apps.get_app_configs():
[Tue Feb 02 11:08:37.674560 2016] [:error] [pid 12349] [remote 
69.122.57.26:200]   File 
"/usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages/django/apps/registry.py", line 137, in 
get_app_configs
[Tue Feb 02 11:08:37.674711 2016] [:error] [pid 12349] [remote 
69.122.57.26:200]     self.check_apps_ready()
[Tue Feb 02 11:08:37.674747 2016] [:error] [pid 12349] [remote 
69.122.57.26:200]   File 
"/usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages/django/apps/registry.py", line 124, in 
check_apps_ready
[Tue Feb 02 11:08:37.674781 2016] [:error] [pid 12349] [remote 
69.122.57.26:200]     raise AppRegistryNotReady("Apps aren't loaded 
yet.")
[Tue Feb 02 11:08:37.674829 2016] [:error] [pid 12349] [remote 
69.122.57.26:200] AppRegistryNotReady: Apps aren't loaded yet.

my browser reports:

Internal Server Error

The server encountered an internal error or misconfiguration and was 
unable to complete your request.

Please contact the server administrator at root at localhost to inform them 
of the time this error occurred, and the actions you performed just 
before this error.

More information about this error may be available in the server error 
log.

what have i missed? Thanks.

- Fabian S.

From raunaq.abhyankar at gmail.com  Tue Feb  2 13:40:37 2016
From: raunaq.abhyankar at gmail.com (Raunaq Abhyankar)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2016 00:10:37 +0530
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] GSOC 2016
Message-ID: <CAFmwhbgoye_NsFBtTpDgH3bdMiM1z9Xrs-99Q_aiYtCuk+Z5dg@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Developers,
Hi! I am Raunaq Abhyankar from Mumbai, India. I am a Third Year Computer
Engg student from Mumbai University.

I would like to work on the following project ideas:
1. Dashboard for Admins/Owners/Moderators
2. Anonymous lists

What is the procedure for applying to the given projects?
Are any preGSOC activities (bug fixes / enhancements et al) supposed to be
performed?

Thanks and Regards,
RAunaq Abhyankar

From f at florianfuchs.com  Tue Feb  2 17:50:11 2016
From: f at florianfuchs.com (f at florianfuchs.com)
Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2016 23:50:11 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] RELEASED: Postorius 1.0.3
Message-ID: <1659f9af984ce823b2b0c5cbaf9261cc@florianfuchs.com>

I'm announcing the release of Postorius 1.0.3.

It contains an important security fix[1], so we strongly recommend that 
all sites running Mailman 3.0 in combination with Postorius update their 
instances to this version.

The easiest way to upgrade is via pip:

   pip install --upgrade postorius

The latest tarball is also available on 
https://pypi.python.org/pypi/postorius.

Florian


[1] http://wiki.list.org/SEC/Unauthorized-Domain-Deletion/


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Feb  2 22:29:42 2016
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2016 19:29:42 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Mailman 2.1.21 release
Message-ID: <56B17426.6020207@msapiro.net>

I am pleased to announce the first release candidate for Mailman 2.1.21.

Python 2.4 is the minimum supported, but Python 2.7 is strongly recommended.

This release includes a few new features and several bug fixes. See the
attached README for details.

Associated with these changes are six new and two modified strings in
the i18n message catalogs. I strongly encourage anyone with an interest
in translations of Mailman to get this release and help with updating
the translations for the final 2.1.21 release which is planned for the
end of February.

This candidate is expected to be quite stable. All the changes since
2.1.20 have been installed in the python.org Mailman as they were
developed and are running without known issues. The only reason why this
is a candidate and not a final release is to allow time for i18n updates
to be in the final.

Mailman is free software for managing email mailing lists and
e-newsletters. Mailman is used for all the python.org and
SourceForge.net mailing lists, as well as at hundreds of other sites.

For more information, please see our web site at one of:

http://www.list.org
http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman
http://mailman.sourceforge.net/
http://mirror.list.org/

Mailman 2.1.21rc1 can be downloaded from

https://launchpad.net/mailman/2.1/
http://ftp.gnu.org/gnu/mailman/
https://sourceforge.net/projects/mailman/

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
-------------- next part --------------
2.1.21rc1 (03-Feb-2016)

  New Features

    - There is a new dmarc_none_moderation_action list setting and a
      DEFAULT_DMARC_NONE_MODERATION_ACTION mm_cfg.py setting to optionally
      apply Munge From or Wrap Message actions to posts From: domains that
      publish DMARC p=none.  The intent is to eliminate failure reports to
      the domain owner for messages that would be munged or wrapped if the
      domain published a stronger DMARC policy.  See the descriptions in
      Defaults.py, the web UI and the bug report for more.  (LP: #1539384)

    - Thanks to Jim Popovitch there is now a feature to automatically turn
      on moderation for a malicious list member who attempts to flood a list
      with spam.  See the details for the Privacy options ... -> Sender
      filters -> member_verbosity_threshold and member_verbosity_interval
      settings in the web admin UI and the documentation in Defaults.py for
      the DEFAULT_MEMBER_VERBOSITY_* and VERBOSE_CLEAN_LIMIT settings for
      information.

    - bin/list_members now has options to display all moderated or all
      non-moderated members.

    - There is now a mm_cfg.py setting GLOBAL_BAN_LIST which is like the
      individual list's ban_list but applies globally to all subscribe
      requests.  See the description in Defaults.py for more details.

  i18n

    - Several Galician templates that were improperly encoded as iso-8859-1
      have been fixed.  (LP: #1532504)

    - The German translation has been updated by Mirian Margiani.

    - The Brazilian Portugese translation has been updated by Emerson Ribeiro
      de Mello.

  Bug fixes and other patches

    - Modified contrib/mmdsr to report held and banned subscriptions and DMARC
      lookups in their own categories.

    - Fixed a bug that could create a garbled From: header with certain DMARC
      mitigation actions.  (LP: #1536816)

    - Treat a poster's address which matches an equivalent_domains address as
      a list member for the regular_exclude_ignore check.  (LP: #1526550)

    - Fixed an issue that sometimes left no white space following
      subject_prefix.  (LP: #1525954)

    - Vette log entries for banned subscriptions now include the source of
      the request if available.  (LP: #1525733)

    - Submitting the user options form for a user who was asynchronously
      unsubscribed would throw an uncaught NotAMemberError.  (LP: #1523273)

    - It was possible under some circumstances for a message to be shunted
      after a handler rejected or discarded it, and the handler would be
      skipped upon unshunting and the message accepted.  (LP: #1519062)

    - Posts gated to usenet will no longer have other than the target group
      in the Newsgroups: header.  (LP: #1512866)

    - Invalid regexps in *_these_nonmembers, subscribe_auto_approval and
      ban_list are now logged.  (LP: #1507241)

    - Refactored the GetPattern list method to simplify extending @listname
      syntax to new attributes in the future.  Changed Moderate.py to use the
      GetPattern method to process the *_these_nonmembers lists.

    - Changed CookHeaders to default to using space rather than tab as
      continuation_ws when folding headers.  (LP: #1505878)

    - Fixed the 'pidfile' path in the sample init.d script.  (LP: # 1503422)

    - Subject prefixing could fail to collapse multiple 'Re:' in an incomming
      message if they all came after the list's subject_prefix.  This is now
      fixed.  (LP: #1496620)

    - Defended against a user submitting URLs with query fragments or POST
      data containing multiple occurrences of the same variable.
      (LP: #1496632)

    - Fixed bin/mailmanctl to check its effective rather than real uid.
      (LP: #1491187)

    - Fixed cron/gate_news to catch EOFError on opening the newsgroup.
      (LP: #1486263)

    - Fixed a bug where a delayed probe bounce can throw an AttributeError.
      (LP: #1482940)

    - If a list is not digestable an the user is not currently set to
      receive digests, the digest options will not be shown on the user's
      options page.  (LP: #1476298)

    - Improved identification of remote clients for logging and subscribe
      form checking in cases where access is via a proxy server.  Thanks to
      Jim Popovitch.  Also updated contrib/mmdsr for log change.

    - Fixed an issue with shunted messages on a list where the charset for
      the list's preferred_language had been changed from iso-8859-1 to
      utf-8 without recoding the list's description.  (LP: #1462755)

    - Mailman-Postfix integration will now add mailman at domain entries in
      data/virtual-mailman for each domain in POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS
      which is a host_name of a list.  This is so the addresses which are
      exposed on admin and listinfo overview pages of virtual domains will
      be deliverable.  (LP: #1459236)

    - The vette log entry for DMARC policy hits now contains the list name.
      (LP: #1450826)

    - If SUBSCRIBE_FORM_SECRET is enabled and a user's network has a load
      balancer or similar in use the POSTing IP might not exactly match the
      GETting IP.  This is now accounted for by not requiring the last
      octet (16 bits for ipV6) to match.  (LP: #1447445)

    - DKIM-Signature:, DomainKey-Signature: and Authentication-Results:
      headers are now removed by default from posts to anonymous lists.
      (LP: #1444673)

    - The list admin web UI Mambership List search function often doesn't
      return correct results for search strings (regexps) that contain
      non-ascii characters.  This is partially fixed.  (LP: #1442298)

-------------- next part --------------
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From programo.sapien at gmail.com  Tue Feb  2 23:37:22 2016
From: programo.sapien at gmail.com (Aswin kumar)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2016 22:37:22 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] =?utf-8?q?Regarding_Issue_=23126_=C2=B7?=
Message-ID: <CAJ0JsiBWb+UNANr2m36_0LE_ECK-BoVJvwyOyYwENPAHH2bo9Q@mail.gmail.com>

Hi ,

 I would like to know if this  Issue #126 ? is still open? Is it related to
the merge request Merge Request #51 ?

Regards,
Aswin

From nickbarnett at onetel.com  Wed Feb  3 12:57:20 2016
From: nickbarnett at onetel.com (Nicholas Barnett)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2016 17:57:20 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] a suggestion
Message-ID: <5EA8585D-65D1-47F0-86FD-EBE461D14F2F@onetel.com>

Dear Mail men (wait a minute, wait a minute  ---  oh no, that was Post  
Man, wasn't it),

We have over 480 email lists, and about 60,000 members. Many members  
of the organisation are members of more than one list. If one posts to  
two lists, other members reading the post will be divided into three,  
those in list A, in list B, in both.

If someone in both reply to it and create a thread, well, it becomes  
very tangled as B people don't see A messages and vice versa, but  
sometimes they see messages from AB people responding to stuff they  
haven't seen. B-listers may respond along the lines of a response  
already made on list A. Confusing!

I apologise if this has been brought up before, but I couldn't find it.

One of our 60,000 has proposed that the original poster should post to  
the two lists in two separate emails, but could there be an option for  
each list moderator to select whereby if one addressee of a post is a  
list, then other addressees may not be? It would be bounced! (And the  
option should be the default, of course, so you'd need to opt out to  
allow multiple lists as addressees, and create tangled threads)?

Yours sincerely
Nicholas Barnett

From mark at msapiro.net  Wed Feb  3 13:50:17 2016
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2016 10:50:17 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] a suggestion
In-Reply-To: <5EA8585D-65D1-47F0-86FD-EBE461D14F2F@onetel.com>
References: <5EA8585D-65D1-47F0-86FD-EBE461D14F2F@onetel.com>
Message-ID: <56B24BE9.5080301@msapiro.net>

On 02/03/2016 09:57 AM, Nicholas Barnett wrote:
> 
> If someone in both reply to it and create a thread, well, it becomes
> very tangled as B people don't see A messages and vice versa, but
> sometimes they see messages from AB people responding to stuff they
> haven't seen. B-listers may respond along the lines of a response
> already made on list A. Confusing!

(see note below)

Cross posting is an issue that will always cause problems because there
is no single, right way to handle it. Consider an announcement to listA
and listB with ListB in ListA's regular_exclude_lists. You want this to
be a single post so members of both lists don't get duplicates. Yet, if
people receiving the post who are members of only one of the lists
reply-all their replies to the other list are non-member posts which may
be an issue. This is in addition to the confusion that you mention.


> One of our 60,000 has proposed that the original poster should post to
> the two lists in two separate emails, but could there be an option for
> each list moderator to select whereby if one addressee of a post is a
> list, then other addressees may not be? It would be bounced! (And the
> option should be the default, of course, so you'd need to opt out to
> allow multiple lists as addressees, and create tangled threads)?


Not allowing cross posting is a social issue. It can be enforced
partially, but not completely reliably within Mailman. First of all,
Cross posting with many of the issues you raise occurs with posts to
lists that may be in different Mailman installations or even among lists
not all of which are Mailman managed lists. Also, even with posts to
multiple lists in the same installation, if Bcc's and aliases are
allowed, Mailman can't always know if another list in the installation
is a recipient of the post or not.

I think you can do as well as can be done with the following settings in
current Mailman 2.1. In Privacy options... -> Recipient filters for each
list, set require_explicit_destination to Yes (this is already the
distribution default) and set max_num_recipients to 2 (you can make this
the default by setting DEFAULT_MAX_NUM_RECIPIENTS = 2 in mm_cfg.py).

This will say that for a post to this list to not be held for
moderation, it must explicitly address this list and must have no other
explicit addressees (i.e. total addressees < 2).

Of course, this will preclude addressing other, non-list recipients in
list posts unless they are Bcc'd, and will undoubtedly cause confusion
of a different kind.

If you post this to the mailman-users at python.org list, you will reach a
wider audience and may get more information about how other
installations deal with this issue.

note: For the lists that I'm on, I see the opposite problem. People top
post and quote entire threads, so the issue isn't people seeing replies
to stuff they haven't seen, it's digests and archives being polluted
with multiple copies of quoted and requoted material.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From raj.abhilash1 at gmail.com  Wed Feb  3 15:06:48 2016
From: raj.abhilash1 at gmail.com (Abhilash Raj)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2016 12:06:48 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] GSOC 2016
In-Reply-To: <CAFmwhbjdsYw_zZ4uOCYb92PBbxdQLBTj+YWEKE67Pzq80FZfmA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFmwhbgoye_NsFBtTpDgH3bdMiM1z9Xrs-99Q_aiYtCuk+Z5dg@mail.gmail.com>
 <56B1311C.5010200@gmail.com>
 <CAFmwhbjdsYw_zZ4uOCYb92PBbxdQLBTj+YWEKE67Pzq80FZfmA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <56B25DD8.4090705@gmail.com>

Hi Raunaq,

On 02/03/2016 03:51 AM, Raunaq Abhyankar wrote:
> Hey! I would like to work on the following ideas:

I think three of them are too much for one summer. Try choosing one and
then clearly defining what do you want to do with these ideas.

> 1.Preset list settings template.

There is an active discussion going on this topic with another student
on -developers list. Try to look through the archives and see if can
understand the idea behind this and then maybe come up with a good
solution/proposal on how to do this.

> 2.Gitlab integration

This probably was rejected as a good idea for a GSoC project in itself.
The reason being you can always add the list's mailing list to the list
of subscribers on any of the code sharing sites which would send in the
updates. Although, I think the current setup to subscribe to events
individually is much better and fine grained as per individual's choices.

I am open if you want to do some other kind of "integration" that would
really help people.


> 3.Shared bookmarks toolkit

This looks like a small project but can be added along with small
projects to create a summer of code proposal. You can expand more on
what this toolkit will do and how and look for another one or two easy
tasks.



> 
> How do I go about the same.
> 
> Regards,
> Raunaq Abhyankar
> 
> On Feb 3, 2016 4:13 AM, "Abhilash Raj" <raj.abhilash1 at gmail.com
> <mailto:raj.abhilash1 at gmail.com>> wrote:
> 
>     Hi Raunaq,
> 
>     On 02/02/2016 10:40 AM, Raunaq Abhyankar wrote:
>     > Dear Developers,
>     > Hi! I am Raunaq Abhyankar from Mumbai, India. I am a Third Year
>     Computer
>     > Engg student from Mumbai University.
>     >
>     > I would like to work on the following project ideas:
>     > 1. Dashboard for Admins/Owners/Moderators
>     > 2. Anonymous lists
> 
>     I think you visited the old GSoC page. Please read
>     http://wiki.list.org/x/17891941 for the latest information on GSoC 2016
>     and in general about the application process.
>     >
>     > What is the procedure for applying to the given projects?
>     > Are any preGSOC activities (bug fixes / enhancements et al)
>     supposed to be
>     > performed?
>     >
>     > Thanks and Regards,
>     > RAunaq Abhyankar
>     > _______________________________________________
>     > Mailman-Developers mailing list
>     > Mailman-Developers at python.org <mailto:Mailman-Developers at python.org>
>     > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers
>     > Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
>     > Searchable Archives:
>     http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-developers%40python.org/
>     > Unsubscribe:
>     https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-developers/raj.abhilash1%40gmail.com
>     >
>     > Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
>     >
> 
>     --
>     thanks,
>     Abhilash Raj
> 

-- 
thanks,
Abhilash Raj

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From stephen at xemacs.org  Wed Feb  3 21:34:38 2016
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2016 11:34:38 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] [Mailman-Users] RELEASED: Postorius 1.0.3
In-Reply-To: <1659f9af984ce823b2b0c5cbaf9261cc@florianfuchs.com>
References: <1659f9af984ce823b2b0c5cbaf9261cc@florianfuchs.com>
Message-ID: <22194.47294.536544.713741@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Thanks, Florian!

f at florianfuchs.com writes:

 > I'm announcing the release of Postorius 1.0.3.

From adityadivekar03 at gmail.com  Thu Feb  4 10:44:28 2016
From: adityadivekar03 at gmail.com (Aditya Divekar)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2016 21:14:28 +0530
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] GSOC 2016
Message-ID: <CAAQRvQJSEEbbo-evCz5M5sGxtUkDPa1HRFcD+O7PqDDMNhpKPA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi everyone,
My name is Aditya Divekar. I am a sophomore from IIT Guwahati.
I have recently gotten involved with the mailman project, and gained
familiarity with postorius and mailman core.
I want to work on the project "Implement module to process ARC headers". I
have begun reading about RFC a bit.
Please help me get started in the right direction and if possible share
some timeline goals.
Thanks.

Aditya.

From stephen at xemacs.org  Thu Feb  4 22:50:26 2016
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2016 12:50:26 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Developers]  GSOC 2016
In-Reply-To: <CAAQRvQJSEEbbo-evCz5M5sGxtUkDPa1HRFcD+O7PqDDMNhpKPA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAAQRvQJSEEbbo-evCz5M5sGxtUkDPa1HRFcD+O7PqDDMNhpKPA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <22196.7170.187271.561289@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Aditya Divekar writes:

 > My name is Aditya Divekar. I am a sophomore from IIT Guwahati.

Nice to meet you, Aditya!  I'm the main DMARC/IETF wrangler for
Mailman, and I would be the main mentor for the ARC project.

 > I want to work on the project "Implement module to process ARC
 > headers". I have begun reading about RFC a bit.

That's a good start.  If you have questions, feel free to ask.  For
general questions that are mostly about "how do I hook code into
Mailman" or about GSoC, please ask on this list.  Not only will you
get better and quicker answers, but the questions and answers will
benefit other developers too.  For questions about ARC, you can write
me directly or the list, as you feel comfortable.

Or once you start to get the feel of things you may try to ask on the
ARC list.  However, IEFT lists are probably very different from
anything you've participated in before.  High stakes are involved
(there are people with millions of dollars invested in servers there)
and people can be a little terse.  Not to mention the vocabulary will
likely be new to you.

The next thing to do would be to join the ARC mailing list and lurk:

    To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
	http://lists.dmarc.org/mailman/listinfo/arc-discuss
    or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
	arc-discuss-request at dmarc.org

Right now it's low-traffic.  It's a Mailman list.  I subscribed with
the digest, and get maybe one a week.

 > Please help me get started in the right direction and if possible
 > share some timeline goals.

Well, the main timeline goal would be to get done in time for the live
test of implementations being held by the DMARC folks -- on Feb 19.
So I guess that's not going to happen!

It is my belief that a full implementation (with bugs still in it) can
easily be done in a summer starting from a reasonable amount of
programming skill in Python.  If you're better than average it will
probably be integratable into Mailman and ready for participating with
other implementations on the Internet at the end of the summer.

With that in mind, please read How to SPAM
(http://turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp/Blog/SPAM.txt) and other general
information about GSoC proposals at
http://wiki.list.org/DEV/Google%20Summer%20of%20Code%202016.
Then write something up.  Pretty much anything.  It doesn't have to be
complete, it just needs to demonstrate you've thought for a few
minutes about what you think you need to do.

Yes, this is pretty sketchy.  If you're going to work with me, you
need to accept that I'm going expect you to try something plausible
before I tell you what I expect.  I'm not a complete curmudgeon about
it, but I have found that it is a good way to work for me.

Regards, and happy hacking!

Steve


From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Feb  5 01:45:28 2016
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2016 22:45:28 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Mailman 2.1.21 release - IMPORTANT update
Message-ID: <56B44508.4020808@msapiro.net>

I am pleased to announce the second release candidate for Mailman
2.1.21. This fixes a serious bug in the first release candidate in that
the few new list attributes weren't initialized for new lists. 2.1.21rc1
would work with lists migrated from older releases but lists created
under that release were unusable.

If you installed 2.1.21rc1, you should upgrade to 2.1.21rc2, and if you
created new lists under 2.1.21rc1, see the attached fix_list procedure.

Python 2.4 is the minimum supported, but Python 2.7 is strongly recommended.

This release includes a few new features and several bug fixes. See the
attached README for details.

Associated with these changes are six new and two modified strings in
the i18n message catalogs. I strongly encourage anyone with an interest
in translations of Mailman to get this release and help with updating
the translations for the final 2.1.21 release which is planned for the
end of February.

This candidate is expected to be quite stable. All the changes since
2.1.20 have been installed in the python.org Mailman as they were
developed and are running without known issues. The only reason why this
is a candidate and not a final release is to allow time for i18n updates
to be in the final.

Mailman is free software for managing email mailing lists and
e-newsletters. Mailman is used for all the python.org and
SourceForge.net mailing lists, as well as at hundreds of other sites.

For more information, please see our web site at one of:

http://www.list.org
http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman
http://mailman.sourceforge.net/
http://mirror.list.org/

Mailman 2.1.21rc2 can be downloaded from

https://launchpad.net/mailman/2.1/
http://ftp.gnu.org/gnu/mailman/
https://sourceforge.net/projects/mailman/

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

-------------- next part --------------
2.1.21rc2 (05-Feb-2016)

  New Features

    - There is a new dmarc_none_moderation_action list setting and a
      DEFAULT_DMARC_NONE_MODERATION_ACTION mm_cfg.py setting to optionally
      apply Munge From or Wrap Message actions to posts From: domains that
      publish DMARC p=none.  The intent is to eliminate failure reports to
      the domain owner for messages that would be munged or wrapped if the
      domain published a stronger DMARC policy.  See the descriptions in
      Defaults.py, the web UI and the bug report for more.  (LP: #1539384)

    - Thanks to Jim Popovitch there is now a feature to automatically turn
      on moderation for a malicious list member who attempts to flood a list
      with spam.  See the details for the Privacy options ... -> Sender
      filters -> member_verbosity_threshold and member_verbosity_interval
      settings in the web admin UI and the documentation in Defaults.py for
      the DEFAULT_MEMBER_VERBOSITY_* and VERBOSE_CLEAN_LIMIT settings for
      information.

    - bin/list_members now has options to display all moderated or all
      non-moderated members.

    - There is now a mm_cfg.py setting GLOBAL_BAN_LIST which is like the
      individual list's ban_list but applies globally to all subscribe
      requests.  See the description in Defaults.py for more details.

  i18n

    - Several Galician templates that were improperly encoded as iso-8859-1
      have been fixed.  (LP: #1532504)

    - The German translation has been updated by Mirian Margiani.

    - The Brazilian Portugese translation has been updated by Emerson Ribeiro
      de Mello.

  Bug fixes and other patches

    - Modified contrib/mmdsr to report held and banned subscriptions and DMARC
      lookups in their own categories.

    - Fixed a bug that could create a garbled From: header with certain DMARC
      mitigation actions.  (LP: #1536816)

    - Treat a poster's address which matches an equivalent_domains address as
      a list member for the regular_exclude_ignore check.  (LP: #1526550)

    - Fixed an issue that sometimes left no white space following
      subject_prefix.  (LP: #1525954)

    - Vette log entries for banned subscriptions now include the source of
      the request if available.  (LP: #1525733)

    - Submitting the user options form for a user who was asynchronously
      unsubscribed would throw an uncaught NotAMemberError.  (LP: #1523273)

    - It was possible under some circumstances for a message to be shunted
      after a handler rejected or discarded it, and the handler would be
      skipped upon unshunting and the message accepted.  (LP: #1519062)

    - Posts gated to usenet will no longer have other than the target group
      in the Newsgroups: header.  (LP: #1512866)

    - Invalid regexps in *_these_nonmembers, subscribe_auto_approval and
      ban_list are now logged.  (LP: #1507241)

    - Refactored the GetPattern list method to simplify extending @listname
      syntax to new attributes in the future.  Changed Moderate.py to use the
      GetPattern method to process the *_these_nonmembers lists.

    - Changed CookHeaders to default to using space rather than tab as
      continuation_ws when folding headers.  (LP: #1505878)

    - Fixed the 'pidfile' path in the sample init.d script.  (LP: # 1503422)

    - Subject prefixing could fail to collapse multiple 'Re:' in an incomming
      message if they all came after the list's subject_prefix.  This is now
      fixed.  (LP: #1496620)

    - Defended against a user submitting URLs with query fragments or POST
      data containing multiple occurrences of the same variable.
      (LP: #1496632)

    - Fixed bin/mailmanctl to check its effective rather than real uid.
      (LP: #1491187)

    - Fixed cron/gate_news to catch EOFError on opening the newsgroup.
      (LP: #1486263)

    - Fixed a bug where a delayed probe bounce can throw an AttributeError.
      (LP: #1482940)

    - If a list is not digestable an the user is not currently set to
      receive digests, the digest options will not be shown on the user's
      options page.  (LP: #1476298)

    - Improved identification of remote clients for logging and subscribe
      form checking in cases where access is via a proxy server.  Thanks to
      Jim Popovitch.  Also updated contrib/mmdsr for log change.

    - Fixed an issue with shunted messages on a list where the charset for
      the list's preferred_language had been changed from iso-8859-1 to
      utf-8 without recoding the list's description.  (LP: #1462755)

    - Mailman-Postfix integration will now add mailman at domain entries in
      data/virtual-mailman for each domain in POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS
      which is a host_name of a list.  This is so the addresses which are
      exposed on admin and listinfo overview pages of virtual domains will
      be deliverable.  (LP: #1459236)

    - The vette log entry for DMARC policy hits now contains the list name.
      (LP: #1450826)

    - If SUBSCRIBE_FORM_SECRET is enabled and a user's network has a load
      balancer or similar in use the POSTing IP might not exactly match the
      GETting IP.  This is now accounted for by not requiring the last
      octet (16 bits for ipV6) to match.  (LP: #1447445)

    - DKIM-Signature:, DomainKey-Signature: and Authentication-Results:
      headers are now removed by default from posts to anonymous lists.
      (LP: #1444673)

    - The list admin web UI Mambership List search function often doesn't
      return correct results for search strings (regexps) that contain
      non-ascii characters.  This is partially fixed.  (LP: #1442298)

-------------- next part --------------
The following is a transcript of a withlist session that fixes a list
without new attributes.

It invokes withlist on 'listname'

looks at the lists dmarc_none_moderation_action which throws an AttributeError

looks at the lists data_version which is 110.

sets it to 109.

saves and reloads the list.

verifies the data_version is now 110 again and dmarc_none_moderation_action
exists.

Wnlocks the list and exits.


msapiro at mail:~/mm$ bin/withlist -l listname
Loading list listname (locked)
The variable `m' is the listname MailList instance
>>> m.dmarc_none_moderation_action
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<console>", line 1, in <module>
  File "/srv/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 147, in __getattr__
    raise AttributeError, name
AttributeError: dmarc_none_moderation_action
>>> m.data_version
110
>>> m.data_version = 109
>>> m.Save()
>>> m.data_version
109
>>> m.Load()
>>> m.data_version
110
>>> m.dmarc_none_moderation_action
False
>>> m.Unlock()
>>> 
Finalizing


Another way is to run bin/config_list on the list with an input file containing
the single line

mlist.data_version = 109

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From raj.abhilash1 at gmail.com  Sun Feb  7 01:37:50 2016
From: raj.abhilash1 at gmail.com (Abhilash Raj)
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2016 22:37:50 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] GSOC 2016
In-Reply-To: <CAFmwhbiaNsog8YJ-aixexE+_FcXU7=tagbKztb=z=Dwb4Bn4XA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFmwhbgoye_NsFBtTpDgH3bdMiM1z9Xrs-99Q_aiYtCuk+Z5dg@mail.gmail.com>
 <56B1311C.5010200@gmail.com>
 <CAFmwhbjdsYw_zZ4uOCYb92PBbxdQLBTj+YWEKE67Pzq80FZfmA@mail.gmail.com>
 <56B25DD8.4090705@gmail.com>
 <CAFmwhbiaNsog8YJ-aixexE+_FcXU7=tagbKztb=z=Dwb4Bn4XA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <56B6E63E.3080006@gmail.com>

Hi Raunaq,

Please always include the -developers list when sending a mail related
to GSoC. CC'ing the list here.

On 02/04/2016 04:20 AM, Raunaq Abhyankar wrote:
> Dear Abhilash,
> In that case, could u please suggest some other integration solution
> possibilities that I can work on? (Idea 2)

I think it would be your job to think about the possible ways to
integrate Gitlab with Mailman. Other might be able to help with it, but
I myself don't have any pointers as to how to help you.

> 
> And in the shared bookmarks toolkit (idea3), what small tasks are u
> looking for?

Again, *I* am not the one who will be choosing the tasks to complete the
application. I am sorry, but I can not help you find a right sized
project for the summer other than the ones listed on the GSoC ideas
page. I can certainly tell if you if the project you chose is good
enough for a summer.

You are free to ask the general developer list for more brainstorming
over some ideas/pointers that you have.

> 
> And pls provide the link to setting up the codebase.

If you read the GSoC wiki page carefully, I am sure you will find all
the links to setup your development environment. You can refer to
gnu-mailman.rtfd.org and list.org too!
> 
> On Feb 4, 2016 1:36 AM, "Abhilash Raj" <raj.abhilash1 at gmail.com
> <mailto:raj.abhilash1 at gmail.com>> wrote:
> 
>     Hi Raunaq,
> 
>     On 02/03/2016 03:51 AM, Raunaq Abhyankar wrote:
>     > Hey! I would like to work on the following ideas:
> 
>     I think three of them are too much for one summer. Try choosing one and
>     then clearly defining what do you want to do with these ideas.
> 
>     > 1.Preset list settings template.
> 
>     There is an active discussion going on this topic with another student
>     on -developers list. Try to look through the archives and see if can
>     understand the idea behind this and then maybe come up with a good
>     solution/proposal on how to do this.
> 
>     > 2.Gitlab integration
> 
>     This probably was rejected as a good idea for a GSoC project in itself.
>     The reason being you can always add the list's mailing list to the list
>     of subscribers on any of the code sharing sites which would send in the
>     updates. Although, I think the current setup to subscribe to events
>     individually is much better and fine grained as per individual's
>     choices.
> 
>     I am open if you want to do some other kind of "integration" that would
>     really help people.
> 
> 
>     > 3.Shared bookmarks toolkit
> 
>     This looks like a small project but can be added along with small
>     projects to create a summer of code proposal. You can expand more on
>     what this toolkit will do and how and look for another one or two easy
>     tasks.
> 
> 
> 
>     >
>     > How do I go about the same.
>     >
>     > Regards,
>     > Raunaq Abhyankar
>     >
>     > On Feb 3, 2016 4:13 AM, "Abhilash Raj" <raj.abhilash1 at gmail.com
>     <mailto:raj.abhilash1 at gmail.com>
>     > <mailto:raj.abhilash1 at gmail.com <mailto:raj.abhilash1 at gmail.com>>>
>     wrote:
>     >
>     >     Hi Raunaq,
>     >
>     >     On 02/02/2016 10:40 AM, Raunaq Abhyankar wrote:
>     >     > Dear Developers,
>     >     > Hi! I am Raunaq Abhyankar from Mumbai, India. I am a Third Year
>     >     Computer
>     >     > Engg student from Mumbai University.
>     >     >
>     >     > I would like to work on the following project ideas:
>     >     > 1. Dashboard for Admins/Owners/Moderators
>     >     > 2. Anonymous lists
>     >
>     >     I think you visited the old GSoC page. Please read
>     >     http://wiki.list.org/x/17891941 for the latest information on
>     GSoC 2016
>     >     and in general about the application process.
>     >     >
>     >     > What is the procedure for applying to the given projects?
>     >     > Are any preGSOC activities (bug fixes / enhancements et al)
>     >     supposed to be
>     >     > performed?
>     >     >
>     >     > Thanks and Regards,
>     >     > RAunaq Abhyankar
>     >     > _______________________________________________
>     >     > Mailman-Developers mailing list
>     >     > Mailman-Developers at python.org
>     <mailto:Mailman-Developers at python.org>
>     <mailto:Mailman-Developers at python.org
>     <mailto:Mailman-Developers at python.org>>
>     >     > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers
>     >     > Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
>     >     > Searchable Archives:
>     >     http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-developers%40python.org/
>     >     > Unsubscribe:
>     >   
>      https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-developers/raj.abhilash1%40gmail.com
>     >     >
>     >     > Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
>     >     >
>     >
>     >     --
>     >     thanks,
>     >     Abhilash Raj
>     >
> 
>     --
>     thanks,
>     Abhilash Raj
> 

-- 
thanks,
Abhilash Raj

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From fsantiago at garbage-juice.com  Sun Feb  7 13:31:36 2016
From: fsantiago at garbage-juice.com (fsantiago at garbage-juice.com)
Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2016 13:31:36 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] MM3 errors when attempting to view messages
 held for moderation
Message-ID: <4794b5f4572b0c7d8827486e8f4a012e@garbage-juice.com>

see my error output from django:

http://pastebin.com/6LX76ya8

i suspect there's many messages held for moderation as I've been playing 
around with my testing, mailman-bundler setup for mm3 but now i cannot 
access the held for moderation list. any clues out there? Thanks.

- Fabian S.


From adityadivekar03 at gmail.com  Mon Feb  8 03:56:56 2016
From: adityadivekar03 at gmail.com (Aditya Divekar)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2016 14:26:56 +0530
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] GSOC 2016
In-Reply-To: <22196.7170.187271.561289@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <CAAQRvQJSEEbbo-evCz5M5sGxtUkDPa1HRFcD+O7PqDDMNhpKPA@mail.gmail.com>
 <22196.7170.187271.561289@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <CAAQRvQLYAHk7phzW+yrzxN444OAG-UQzwtYsJYKftZkkvkdLkA@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Stephen,
I had earlier contacted you on the developer
mailing list regarding the gsoc project.
I have started reading about ARC as you suggested and have thought
about a few things.
When we use mailman, the mailing list service adds an extra phrase in
the subject - [Mailman-Developers] and an extra footer in the mail
giving links about the FAQ, archives and the security policy. This
alters the original subject and the body of the mail that the sender
sent in the first place. According to my knowledge, this is what might
cause the mail to be rejected by yahoo, aol, or other p=reject policy
domains.
Thus implementing ARC would involve including the ARC authentication
result header, the signature and the seal in every mail that Mailman
receives before it forwards it in the mailing list. This would
probably involve using the pydkim, gs.dmarc and pyspf libraries for
verification before we generate the ARC authentication results.
As a starter I think I should understand how the dkim,dmarc and spf
authentication processes are coded.
could you tell me how to find existing code where I can read and
understand how the authentication methods are implemented?
Thanks!


Aditya.

On Fri, Feb 5, 2016 at 9:20 AM, Stephen J. Turnbull <stephen at xemacs.org> wrote:
> Aditya Divekar writes:
>
>  > My name is Aditya Divekar. I am a sophomore from IIT Guwahati.
>
> Nice to meet you, Aditya!  I'm the main DMARC/IETF wrangler for
> Mailman, and I would be the main mentor for the ARC project.
>
>  > I want to work on the project "Implement module to process ARC
>  > headers". I have begun reading about RFC a bit.
>
> That's a good start.  If you have questions, feel free to ask.  For
> general questions that are mostly about "how do I hook code into
> Mailman" or about GSoC, please ask on this list.  Not only will you
> get better and quicker answers, but the questions and answers will
> benefit other developers too.  For questions about ARC, you can write
> me directly or the list, as you feel comfortable.
>
> Or once you start to get the feel of things you may try to ask on the
> ARC list.  However, IEFT lists are probably very different from
> anything you've participated in before.  High stakes are involved
> (there are people with millions of dollars invested in servers there)
> and people can be a little terse.  Not to mention the vocabulary will
> likely be new to you.
>
> The next thing to do would be to join the ARC mailing list and lurk:
>
>     To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>         http://lists.dmarc.org/mailman/listinfo/arc-discuss
>     or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>         arc-discuss-request at dmarc.org
>
> Right now it's low-traffic.  It's a Mailman list.  I subscribed with
> the digest, and get maybe one a week.
>
>  > Please help me get started in the right direction and if possible
>  > share some timeline goals.
>
> Well, the main timeline goal would be to get done in time for the live
> test of implementations being held by the DMARC folks -- on Feb 19.
> So I guess that's not going to happen!
>
> It is my belief that a full implementation (with bugs still in it) can
> easily be done in a summer starting from a reasonable amount of
> programming skill in Python.  If you're better than average it will
> probably be integratable into Mailman and ready for participating with
> other implementations on the Internet at the end of the summer.
>
> With that in mind, please read How to SPAM
> (http://turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp/Blog/SPAM.txt) and other general
> information about GSoC proposals at
> http://wiki.list.org/DEV/Google%20Summer%20of%20Code%202016.
> Then write something up.  Pretty much anything.  It doesn't have to be
> complete, it just needs to demonstrate you've thought for a few
> minutes about what you think you need to do.
>
> Yes, this is pretty sketchy.  If you're going to work with me, you
> need to accept that I'm going expect you to try something plausible
> before I tell you what I expect.  I'm not a complete curmudgeon about
> it, but I have found that it is a good way to work for me.
>
> Regards, and happy hacking!
>
> Steve
>

From adityadivekar03 at gmail.com  Mon Feb  8 04:02:19 2016
From: adityadivekar03 at gmail.com (Aditya Divekar)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2016 14:32:19 +0530
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] GSOC 2016
In-Reply-To: <CAAQRvQLYAHk7phzW+yrzxN444OAG-UQzwtYsJYKftZkkvkdLkA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAAQRvQJSEEbbo-evCz5M5sGxtUkDPa1HRFcD+O7PqDDMNhpKPA@mail.gmail.com>
 <22196.7170.187271.561289@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
 <CAAQRvQLYAHk7phzW+yrzxN444OAG-UQzwtYsJYKftZkkvkdLkA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAAQRvQLemf=PpKx37O800bsktg5C0VGV7YeRaxZDa0Gq+OYh8Q@mail.gmail.com>

And I had previously mailed you directly, but I think I missed you
there. So I mailed it again here.
Sorry if I caused any inconvenience.

On Mon, Feb 8, 2016 at 2:26 PM, Aditya Divekar
<adityadivekar03 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello Stephen,
> I had earlier contacted you on the developer
> mailing list regarding the gsoc project.
> I have started reading about ARC as you suggested and have thought
> about a few things.
> When we use mailman, the mailing list service adds an extra phrase in
> the subject - [Mailman-Developers] and an extra footer in the mail
> giving links about the FAQ, archives and the security policy. This
> alters the original subject and the body of the mail that the sender
> sent in the first place. According to my knowledge, this is what might
> cause the mail to be rejected by yahoo, aol, or other p=reject policy
> domains.
> Thus implementing ARC would involve including the ARC authentication
> result header, the signature and the seal in every mail that Mailman
> receives before it forwards it in the mailing list. This would
> probably involve using the pydkim, gs.dmarc and pyspf libraries for
> verification before we generate the ARC authentication results.
> As a starter I think I should understand how the dkim,dmarc and spf
> authentication processes are coded.
> could you tell me how to find existing code where I can read and
> understand how the authentication methods are implemented?
> Thanks!
>
>
> Aditya.
>
> On Fri, Feb 5, 2016 at 9:20 AM, Stephen J. Turnbull <stephen at xemacs.org> wrote:
>> Aditya Divekar writes:
>>
>>  > My name is Aditya Divekar. I am a sophomore from IIT Guwahati.
>>
>> Nice to meet you, Aditya!  I'm the main DMARC/IETF wrangler for
>> Mailman, and I would be the main mentor for the ARC project.
>>
>>  > I want to work on the project "Implement module to process ARC
>>  > headers". I have begun reading about RFC a bit.
>>
>> That's a good start.  If you have questions, feel free to ask.  For
>> general questions that are mostly about "how do I hook code into
>> Mailman" or about GSoC, please ask on this list.  Not only will you
>> get better and quicker answers, but the questions and answers will
>> benefit other developers too.  For questions about ARC, you can write
>> me directly or the list, as you feel comfortable.
>>
>> Or once you start to get the feel of things you may try to ask on the
>> ARC list.  However, IEFT lists are probably very different from
>> anything you've participated in before.  High stakes are involved
>> (there are people with millions of dollars invested in servers there)
>> and people can be a little terse.  Not to mention the vocabulary will
>> likely be new to you.
>>
>> The next thing to do would be to join the ARC mailing list and lurk:
>>
>>     To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>>         http://lists.dmarc.org/mailman/listinfo/arc-discuss
>>     or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>>         arc-discuss-request at dmarc.org
>>
>> Right now it's low-traffic.  It's a Mailman list.  I subscribed with
>> the digest, and get maybe one a week.
>>
>>  > Please help me get started in the right direction and if possible
>>  > share some timeline goals.
>>
>> Well, the main timeline goal would be to get done in time for the live
>> test of implementations being held by the DMARC folks -- on Feb 19.
>> So I guess that's not going to happen!
>>
>> It is my belief that a full implementation (with bugs still in it) can
>> easily be done in a summer starting from a reasonable amount of
>> programming skill in Python.  If you're better than average it will
>> probably be integratable into Mailman and ready for participating with
>> other implementations on the Internet at the end of the summer.
>>
>> With that in mind, please read How to SPAM
>> (http://turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp/Blog/SPAM.txt) and other general
>> information about GSoC proposals at
>> http://wiki.list.org/DEV/Google%20Summer%20of%20Code%202016.
>> Then write something up.  Pretty much anything.  It doesn't have to be
>> complete, it just needs to demonstrate you've thought for a few
>> minutes about what you think you need to do.
>>
>> Yes, this is pretty sketchy.  If you're going to work with me, you
>> need to accept that I'm going expect you to try something plausible
>> before I tell you what I expect.  I'm not a complete curmudgeon about
>> it, but I have found that it is a good way to work for me.
>>
>> Regards, and happy hacking!
>>
>> Steve
>>

From adityadivekar03 at gmail.com  Mon Feb  8 11:42:51 2016
From: adityadivekar03 at gmail.com (Aditya Divekar)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2016 22:12:51 +0530
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Error in starting mailman
Message-ID: <CAAQRvQKXBpxcecU2Shvvq5Hy6jsiu4dXA4aB5ipmggBLP_jzMA@mail.gmail.com>

I got the following error when I was trying to start the mailman service today -

master: error: The master lock could not be acquired.  It appears as
though there is a stale master lock

It first printed a long script regarding the Master subprocess watcher
and then threw the above error.

It was working completely fine just a day back. Any help would be appreciated.

From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Feb  8 12:10:20 2016
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2016 09:10:20 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Error in starting mailman
In-Reply-To: <CAAQRvQKXBpxcecU2Shvvq5Hy6jsiu4dXA4aB5ipmggBLP_jzMA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAAQRvQKXBpxcecU2Shvvq5Hy6jsiu4dXA4aB5ipmggBLP_jzMA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <56B8CBFC.2040805@msapiro.net>

On 02/08/2016 08:42 AM, Aditya Divekar wrote:
> I got the following error when I was trying to start the mailman service today -
> 
> master: error: The master lock could not be acquired.  It appears as
> though there is a stale master lock


The service was not gracefully stopped the last time it was running and
left the master lock behind. The FAQ at
<http://wiki.list.org/x/17891756> describes how locks are implemented in
Mailman 2.1, but Mailman 3 is similar.

There is a var/locks/ directory in your Mailman hierarchy. In it you
will see two files. in MM 2.1, they would be named master-qrunner and
master-qrunner.hostname.pid. In MM 3 they will be similar. Assuming
there is no process with PID = pid running on hostname, you can safely
remove those files.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From stephen at xemacs.org  Mon Feb  8 12:20:13 2016
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2016 02:20:13 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] GSOC 2016
In-Reply-To: <CAAQRvQLemf=PpKx37O800bsktg5C0VGV7YeRaxZDa0Gq+OYh8Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAAQRvQJSEEbbo-evCz5M5sGxtUkDPa1HRFcD+O7PqDDMNhpKPA@mail.gmail.com>
 <22196.7170.187271.561289@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
 <CAAQRvQLYAHk7phzW+yrzxN444OAG-UQzwtYsJYKftZkkvkdLkA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAAQRvQLemf=PpKx37O800bsktg5C0VGV7YeRaxZDa0Gq+OYh8Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <22200.52813.314187.803348@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Aditya Divekar writes:

 > And I had previously mailed you directly, but I think I missed you
 > there. So I mailed it again here.

No, I've just been really busy with work, and a very bad cold,
sleeping about 2 hours/day more than usual.  I'll get back to you
tomorrow evening my time (it's 2am here now, and in the morning I have
other promises to keep).

You really should be a little more patient.  You don't have any
deadlines to meet this week (things would be way different if it were
48 hours to final proposal submission or 168 hours to a Google
"payday" deadline).  Also, in this community, if you wait a bit and I
don't answer, somebody else will step up.

And don't forget -- you get paid kilodollars if you get accepted.  All
we get is a T-shirt (and last year mine got lost in the mail ;-).


From adityadivekar03 at gmail.com  Mon Feb  8 12:24:47 2016
From: adityadivekar03 at gmail.com (Aditya Divekar)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2016 22:54:47 +0530
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Error in starting mailman
In-Reply-To: <56B8CBFC.2040805@msapiro.net>
References: <CAAQRvQKXBpxcecU2Shvvq5Hy6jsiu4dXA4aB5ipmggBLP_jzMA@mail.gmail.com>
 <56B8CBFC.2040805@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <CAAQRvQJ1NWUCgUJ3nYeG-0Gnxu5e+fQC_ggrXqqge6TqpJjYGg@mail.gmail.com>

@ Abhilash Raj -  Thanks for your swift reply. It worked. I terminated
it wrongly last time I suppose.

@ Mark Sapiro -  Yes, there was a stale lock file not associated with
any process. Removed it. And I'll go through the FAQ. Thanks!

On Mon, Feb 8, 2016 at 10:40 PM, Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> wrote:
> On 02/08/2016 08:42 AM, Aditya Divekar wrote:
>> I got the following error when I was trying to start the mailman service today -
>>
>> master: error: The master lock could not be acquired.  It appears as
>> though there is a stale master lock
>
>
> The service was not gracefully stopped the last time it was running and
> left the master lock behind. The FAQ at
> <http://wiki.list.org/x/17891756> describes how locks are implemented in
> Mailman 2.1, but Mailman 3 is similar.
>
> There is a var/locks/ directory in your Mailman hierarchy. In it you
> will see two files. in MM 2.1, they would be named master-qrunner and
> master-qrunner.hostname.pid. In MM 3 they will be similar. Assuming
> there is no process with PID = pid running on hostname, you can safely
> remove those files.
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
> _______________________________________________
> Mailman-Developers mailing list
> Mailman-Developers at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers
> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-developers%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-developers/adityadivekar03%40gmail.com
>
> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9

From stephen at xemacs.org  Tue Feb  9 14:31:22 2016
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2016 04:31:22 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Refried "SPAM" for GSoC 2016
Message-ID: <22202.16010.455812.379332@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

The classic article on writing GSoC proposals, updated a bit for 2016,
refactored for Moin (does Moin do ReST? the biggest annoyance was
repeating links in several places) and moved to the Wiki.

http://wiki.list.org/DEV/SPAM, reviews welcome.  Or just fix what's
broke. ;-)

Steve


From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Feb  9 15:40:52 2016
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2016 12:40:52 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Refried "SPAM" for GSoC 2016
In-Reply-To: <22202.16010.455812.379332@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <22202.16010.455812.379332@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <56BA4ED4.5080605@msapiro.net>

On 02/09/2016 11:31 AM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
> (does Moin do ReST? the biggest annoyance was
> repeating links in several places)


Yes it does.

You can specify that the markup for an entire page is ReST by putting a

#format rst

line at the top of the page. You can embed ReST sections with the notation

{{{#!rst
ReST markup ...
}}}

See <http://wiki.list.org/HelpOnParsers> and
<http://wiki.list.org/HelpOnParsers/ReStructuredText>

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From barry at list.org  Tue Feb  9 20:02:51 2016
From: barry at list.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2016 20:02:51 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] =?utf-8?q?Regarding_Issue_=23126_=C2=B7?=
In-Reply-To: <CAJ0JsiBWb+UNANr2m36_0LE_ECK-BoVJvwyOyYwENPAHH2bo9Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJ0JsiBWb+UNANr2m36_0LE_ECK-BoVJvwyOyYwENPAHH2bo9Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20160209200251.5203cd98@subdivisions.wooz.org>

On Feb 02, 2016, at 10:37 PM, Aswin kumar wrote:

>I would like to know if this Issue #126 ? is still open? Is it related to the
>merge request Merge Request #51 ?

Yes.  MR#51 is still labeled WIP (work-in-progress) so I haven't considered
merging it yet.  It also has some merge conflicts; it probably needs to be
rebased.

This is Abhilash's work, so I defer to him as to how close it is to being
mergeable.

Cheers,
-Barry

From stephen at xemacs.org  Tue Feb  9 21:45:16 2016
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2016 11:45:16 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Refried "SPAM" for GSoC 2016
In-Reply-To: <56BA4ED4.5080605@msapiro.net>
References: <22202.16010.455812.379332@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
 <56BA4ED4.5080605@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <22202.42044.306770.512950@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Mark Sapiro writes:
 > On 02/09/2016 11:31 AM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
 > > (does Moin do ReST? the biggest annoyance was
 > > repeating links in several places)
 > 
 > Yes it does.

Thanks for the confirmation!  I should have guessed that (and figured
out where to look for docs, it's in the editor's hints :-).

The more important questions are "would anybody be hindered in editing
pages if some pages were in ReST syntax and others in Moin?" and "is
there a significant constituency for ReST?"

I do think ReST is both more readable and more powerful, especially at
the scale of something like DEV/SPAM.  But the difference is negligible
for me for all other pages where I've looked at source (so far).

From barry at list.org  Tue Feb  9 21:50:08 2016
From: barry at list.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2016 21:50:08 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Refried "SPAM" for GSoC 2016
In-Reply-To: <22202.42044.306770.512950@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <22202.16010.455812.379332@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
 <56BA4ED4.5080605@msapiro.net>
 <22202.42044.306770.512950@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <20160209215008.3293a82a@subdivisions.wooz.org>

On Feb 10, 2016, at 11:45 AM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:

>The more important questions are "would anybody be hindered in editing
>pages if some pages were in ReST syntax and others in Moin?" and "is
>there a significant constituency for ReST?"
>
>I do think ReST is both more readable and more powerful, especially at
>the scale of something like DEV/SPAM.  But the difference is negligible
>for me for all other pages where I've looked at source (so far).

I also like ReST format, but I might be biased because all the doctests are
written in it. ;)

It doesn't bother me that wiki pages are in a mix.  Use whatever feels most
useful.

Cheers,
-Barry

From adityadivekar03 at gmail.com  Tue Feb  9 22:47:58 2016
From: adityadivekar03 at gmail.com (Aditya Divekar)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2016 09:17:58 +0530
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] GSOC 2016
In-Reply-To: <22200.52813.314187.803348@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <CAAQRvQJSEEbbo-evCz5M5sGxtUkDPa1HRFcD+O7PqDDMNhpKPA@mail.gmail.com>
 <22196.7170.187271.561289@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
 <CAAQRvQLYAHk7phzW+yrzxN444OAG-UQzwtYsJYKftZkkvkdLkA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAAQRvQLemf=PpKx37O800bsktg5C0VGV7YeRaxZDa0Gq+OYh8Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <22200.52813.314187.803348@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <CAAQRvQKLBxSM87uuGDggj2T5hukBE3Xaz5Mew47f1cxN5mB=Og@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Feb 8, 2016 at 10:50 PM, Stephen J. Turnbull <stephen at xemacs.org>
wrote:
> Aditya Divekar writes:
>
> > And I had previously mailed you directly, but I think I missed you
> > there. So I mailed it again here.
>
> No, I've just been really busy with work, and a very bad cold,
> sleeping about 2 hours/day more than usual. I'll get back to you
> tomorrow evening my time (it's 2am here now, and in the morning I have
> other promises to keep).
>
> You really should be a little more patient. You don't have any
> deadlines to meet this week (things would be way different if it were
> 48 hours to final proposal submission or 168 hours to a Google
> "payday" deadline). Also, in this community, if you wait a bit and I
> don't answer, somebody else will step up.
>
> And don't forget -- you get paid kilodollars if you get accepted. All
> we get is a T-shirt (and last year mine got lost in the mail ;-).
>
Sorry about the double mails.
And sure, I'll wait :)

From stephen at xemacs.org  Wed Feb 10 04:49:23 2016
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2016 18:49:23 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] GSOC 2016
In-Reply-To: <CAAQRvQLYAHk7phzW+yrzxN444OAG-UQzwtYsJYKftZkkvkdLkA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAAQRvQJSEEbbo-evCz5M5sGxtUkDPa1HRFcD+O7PqDDMNhpKPA@mail.gmail.com>
 <22196.7170.187271.561289@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
 <CAAQRvQLYAHk7phzW+yrzxN444OAG-UQzwtYsJYKftZkkvkdLkA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <22203.1955.778022.464138@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Hi, Aditya!

I've had a chance to read your mail and review the I-D (Internet
Draft) and relevant RFCs a bit, and can now make a few comments.

First, your understanding is a little bit shallow.  You should get
yourself a "canvas" and draw a detailed flowchart of what's going on
here.  I don't mean to be harsh.  There's an important (especially to
you! ;-) principle here: you're volunteering for *too* *much* work.
Another point is that you're not giving the I-D authors enough credit
for caring about you and the end users.  Homework: how do these
principles apply in the comments below? :-)

Aditya Divekar writes:

 > When we use mailman, the mailing list service adds an extra phrase in
 > the subject - [Mailman-Developers] and an extra footer in the mail
 > giving links about the FAQ, archives and the security policy. This
 > alters the original subject and the body of the mail that the sender
 > sent in the first place. According to my knowledge, this is what might
 > cause the mail to be rejected by yahoo, aol, or other p=reject policy
 > domains.

Close enough for our purposes.

  - If you get interested in doing more mail authentication stuff
    you'll need the more accurate story.

 > Thus implementing ARC would involve including the ARC
 > authentication result header, the signature and the seal in every
 > mail that Mailman receives before it forwards it in the mailing
 > list.

Yes.

 > This would probably involve using the pydkim, gs.dmarc and pyspf
 > libraries for verification before we generate the ARC
 > authentication results.

Here's where you start doing too much work.

  - You can (for GSoC) assume that the original authentication results
    should already be available.

    - For the common MTAs used with Mailman, the
      Authentication-Results (A-R) header should be available, it
      should have been added by *your* MTA (otherwise it was added by
      someone you shouldn't trust!), and you can detect that.  (This
      may not be verifiable -- need to check, and it's another case to
      deal with later.)  The ARC-Authentication-Results is a *copy* of
      this header (see 5.1.3 in the I-D).  (This is the "DRY"
      principle at work.)

    - The A-R header already contains SPF and DKIM results, and maybe
      DMARC (that's cheap to check, though).  Thus for verification
      you don't need to do any work!  (First draft -- pragmatically,
      some Mailman sites may not implement A-R, and as mentioned you
      may not be able to trust A-R.  That's why we're doing this
      anyway -- it's really an MTA function, but some sites won't
      implement.)

    - "For GSoC" is important -- as an extension it's desirable that
      you handle the case where they're *not* available.  But that
      comes later.

  - But you do absolutely need to sign things (ARC-Message-Signature,
    ARC-Seal) with new signatures, and that uses DKIM (modified
    somewhat, don't know yet if you'll need to modify package code).

Having implemented that much, you now know a lot about how the
DKIM module (eg, pydkim) works.

  - Learning DKIM verification is probably easier (the relevant header
    field should tell the module everything about what it needs to
    do!)

  - SPF and DMARC are different modules, but again, you've learned a
    lot.

In general, sequence your plans to learn things that will make later
work easier.  (This tends to happen naturally as you do the work, but
you can often buy 10%-25% by planning it in advance.)

 > As a starter I think I should understand how the dkim,dmarc and spf
 > authentication processes are coded.
 > could you tell me how to find existing code where I can read and
 > understand how the authentication methods are implemented?

On PyPI.  It's all open source (at least these modules will surely be
-- IETF people are real sticklers for open source).  If you need/want
VCS checkouts, you can get them later.  Here's complete (enough) list.

DKIM
----
dkimpy by Scott Kitterman = frequent DMARC/IETF poster, that's a +1
pydkim by Greg Hewgill = dunno
authres by Scott Kitterman et al (A-R header up to RFC 7001, current
    is RFC 7601, may need work?), same author is good sign (he cares,
    also multiple modules in same author's style are easier to
    understand, and if you're lucky, they'll already have compatible
    APIs)
    BTW, you missed this one. :-)
gs.dmarc by Michael JasonSmith = dunno
emailprotectionslib by Alex DeFreese = dunno

DMARC
-----
+ same list as DKIM, basically

SPF
---
pypolicyd-spf by Scott Kitterman
pyspf by Stuart Gathman = dunno
sikwan.spfcheck by Francois Vanderkelen = dunno
hydrate-spf by James Pearson = dunno
python-slimta-spf by Ian Good = dunno
pysrs by Stuart Gathman = second package, +0.5
+ most of the DKIM packages

Where I wrote "dunno", I don't know the author offhand.  I'd need to
Google a bit to decide whether I trust him.  In several cases, my
guess is that they are not protocol hackers, but rather implementing a
messaging system that may or may not have email at its center.  Need
extra attention to auditing accuracy of protocol implementation unless
they're verified to be IETF contributors.

In any case, code needs to be reviewed for quality (accuracy of
implementation -- high-quality email posts are no guarantee :-) -- and
coding technique) and style (if a modified version is needed, you
might need to distribute with Mailman).

Gotta go, but that should get you started.

Steve

From harshitbansal2015 at gmail.com  Wed Feb 10 13:03:34 2016
From: harshitbansal2015 at gmail.com (Harshit Bansal)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2016 23:33:34 +0530
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Discussion On Project Idea "Preset List
 Settings Templates" .
In-Reply-To: <56AD3D56.6020208@gmail.com>
References: <CAGV4MTHxaZiG83-G9bf3S16LBpdxLqi2WygYpBjSivu0He4-yQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <569BF632.3010906@gmail.com>
 <CAGV4MTG1Zyn9k0eN=_5Jz3E=AodHmhkEx435Hi3xores46sarw@mail.gmail.com>
 <22184.4775.708220.823578@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
 <CAGV4MTFnaZEztXL2432KNNMBiyUgdOBvJ+ww_GvQJEvKxdVKfg@mail.gmail.com>
 <56AD3D56.6020208@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAGV4MTFukWFiHQNT+YBbT0bzL1UFEp8uKdFYOP=Vcuk45ii3_g@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Abhilash,
In our previous discussion you mentioned that :

> Permissions should also consider if the user wants to make his new style
> public or keep it private. And should public styles be editable by
> anyone or just read-only?

I am unable to think of a use case in which it will be useful to have
private styles.. Can you please suggest a suitable use case?

Thanks,
Harshit Bansal.

From raj.abhilash1 at gmail.com  Wed Feb 10 15:17:52 2016
From: raj.abhilash1 at gmail.com (Abhilash Raj)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2016 12:17:52 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Discussion On Project Idea "Preset List
 Settings Templates" .
In-Reply-To: <CAGV4MTFukWFiHQNT+YBbT0bzL1UFEp8uKdFYOP=Vcuk45ii3_g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGV4MTHxaZiG83-G9bf3S16LBpdxLqi2WygYpBjSivu0He4-yQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <569BF632.3010906@gmail.com>
 <CAGV4MTG1Zyn9k0eN=_5Jz3E=AodHmhkEx435Hi3xores46sarw@mail.gmail.com>
 <22184.4775.708220.823578@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
 <CAGV4MTFnaZEztXL2432KNNMBiyUgdOBvJ+ww_GvQJEvKxdVKfg@mail.gmail.com>
 <56AD3D56.6020208@gmail.com>
 <CAGV4MTFukWFiHQNT+YBbT0bzL1UFEp8uKdFYOP=Vcuk45ii3_g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <56BB9AF0.6010701@gmail.com>

On 02/10/2016 10:03 AM, Harshit Bansal wrote:
> Hi Abhilash,
> In our previous discussion you mentioned that :
> 
>> Permissions should also consider if the user wants to make his new style
>> public or keep it private. And should public styles be editable by
>> anyone or just read-only?
> 
> I am unable to think of a use case in which it will be useful to have
> private styles.. Can you please suggest a suitable use case?

Well, i agree there is nothing "private" in list styles. We could just
make all styles read-only for everyone. But if someone wants to use the
style created by other users, it would be better idea to first make them
copy the style so that the behavior or their list doesn't change when
the owner changes the style.


Barry: If you have some time, I would like to hear some of your thoughts
on this thread? I believe you have some ideas of your own on how this is
supposed to work.

> 
> Thanks,
> Harshit Bansal.
> 

-- 
thanks,
Abhilash Raj

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From barry at list.org  Fri Feb 12 10:11:36 2016
From: barry at list.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2016 10:11:36 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] ANNOUNCE: Mailman Core 3.0.2
Message-ID: <20160212101136.7a101020@subdivisions.wooz.org>

Hello Mailmanatees!

I'm happy to announce Mailman Core 3.0.2 which fixes a number of bugs,
including most importantly #190, which can affect membership searches.

https://gitlab.com/mailman/mailman/milestones/3

More information on version compatibility is available here:

http://wiki.list.org/Mailman3

As usual, you can download it from PyPI:

https://pypi.python.org/pypi/mailman/3.0.2

view the documentation:

http://mailman.readthedocs.org/en/release-3.0/

Enjoy,
-Barry (on behalf of the Mailman development team)
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From tom.browder at gmail.com  Fri Feb 12 11:39:14 2016
From: tom.browder at gmail.com (Tom Browder)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2016 10:39:14 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Django
Message-ID: <CAFMGiz_=1EhMGuigiUtknWXJ001irsb+1z2XE+XYFXpgfkhLUg@mail.gmail.com>

Does anyone know if one can use one Django instance to serve multiple
virtual servers (servers are running under one Apache instance on one
reasonably powerful host)?

Thanks.

Cheers!

-Tom

From adityadivekar03 at gmail.com  Fri Feb 12 15:13:26 2016
From: adityadivekar03 at gmail.com (Aditya Divekar)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2016 01:43:26 +0530
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] GSOC 2016
In-Reply-To: <22203.1955.778022.464138@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <CAAQRvQJSEEbbo-evCz5M5sGxtUkDPa1HRFcD+O7PqDDMNhpKPA@mail.gmail.com>
 <22196.7170.187271.561289@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
 <CAAQRvQLYAHk7phzW+yrzxN444OAG-UQzwtYsJYKftZkkvkdLkA@mail.gmail.com>
 <22203.1955.778022.464138@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <CAAQRvQ+rLvmvs6UO6670LO+3YUSRQHpPKgANK51outYnf9Jb3A@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Stephen!
Thanks a lot for your previous mail. It was pretty much everything that I
required to start.

I had a doubt regarding the signing in ARC-Seal that I hope you could clear.

According to the draft, here
<https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-andersen-arc-00#section-5.2>, the
ARC-Seal header is constructed from the referenced message signatures given
by the "k" tag.
I didn't understand this part clearly. Do we need to specify the headers
(i.e. the ARC-Message signature and ARC-authentication results) that we
want to seal in the "k" tag just how we would use the "h" tag in the DKIM
signature?
(The usage of the "k" tag isn't clear to me.)

Thanks!

On Wed, Feb 10, 2016 at 3:19 PM, Stephen J. Turnbull <stephen at xemacs.org>
wrote:

> Hi, Aditya!
>
> I've had a chance to read your mail and review the I-D (Internet
> Draft) and relevant RFCs a bit, and can now make a few comments.
>
> First, your understanding is a little bit shallow.  You should get
> yourself a "canvas" and draw a detailed flowchart of what's going on
> here.  I don't mean to be harsh.  There's an important (especially to
> you! ;-) principle here: you're volunteering for *too* *much* work.
> Another point is that you're not giving the I-D authors enough credit
> for caring about you and the end users.  Homework: how do these
> principles apply in the comments below? :-)
>
> Aditya Divekar writes:
>
>  > When we use mailman, the mailing list service adds an extra phrase in
>  > the subject - [Mailman-Developers] and an extra footer in the mail
>  > giving links about the FAQ, archives and the security policy. This
>  > alters the original subject and the body of the mail that the sender
>  > sent in the first place. According to my knowledge, this is what might
>  > cause the mail to be rejected by yahoo, aol, or other p=reject policy
>  > domains.
>
> Close enough for our purposes.
>
>   - If you get interested in doing more mail authentication stuff
>     you'll need the more accurate story.
>
>  > Thus implementing ARC would involve including the ARC
>  > authentication result header, the signature and the seal in every
>  > mail that Mailman receives before it forwards it in the mailing
>  > list.
>
> Yes.
>
>  > This would probably involve using the pydkim, gs.dmarc and pyspf
>  > libraries for verification before we generate the ARC
>  > authentication results.
>
> Here's where you start doing too much work.
>
>   - You can (for GSoC) assume that the original authentication results
>     should already be available.
>
>     - For the common MTAs used with Mailman, the
>       Authentication-Results (A-R) header should be available, it
>       should have been added by *your* MTA (otherwise it was added by
>       someone you shouldn't trust!), and you can detect that.  (This
>       may not be verifiable -- need to check, and it's another case to
>       deal with later.)  The ARC-Authentication-Results is a *copy* of
>       this header (see 5.1.3 in the I-D).  (This is the "DRY"
>       principle at work.)
>
>     - The A-R header already contains SPF and DKIM results, and maybe
>       DMARC (that's cheap to check, though).  Thus for verification
>       you don't need to do any work!  (First draft -- pragmatically,
>       some Mailman sites may not implement A-R, and as mentioned you
>       may not be able to trust A-R.  That's why we're doing this
>       anyway -- it's really an MTA function, but some sites won't
>       implement.)
>
>     - "For GSoC" is important -- as an extension it's desirable that
>       you handle the case where they're *not* available.  But that
>       comes later.
>
>   - But you do absolutely need to sign things (ARC-Message-Signature,
>     ARC-Seal) with new signatures, and that uses DKIM (modified
>     somewhat, don't know yet if you'll need to modify package code).
>
> Having implemented that much, you now know a lot about how the
> DKIM module (eg, pydkim) works.
>
>   - Learning DKIM verification is probably easier (the relevant header
>     field should tell the module everything about what it needs to
>     do!)
>
>   - SPF and DMARC are different modules, but again, you've learned a
>     lot.
>
> In general, sequence your plans to learn things that will make later
> work easier.  (This tends to happen naturally as you do the work, but
> you can often buy 10%-25% by planning it in advance.)
>
>  > As a starter I think I should understand how the dkim,dmarc and spf
>  > authentication processes are coded.
>  > could you tell me how to find existing code where I can read and
>  > understand how the authentication methods are implemented?
>
> On PyPI.  It's all open source (at least these modules will surely be
> -- IETF people are real sticklers for open source).  If you need/want
> VCS checkouts, you can get them later.  Here's complete (enough) list.
>
> DKIM
> ----
> dkimpy by Scott Kitterman = frequent DMARC/IETF poster, that's a +1
> pydkim by Greg Hewgill = dunno
> authres by Scott Kitterman et al (A-R header up to RFC 7001, current
>     is RFC 7601, may need work?), same author is good sign (he cares,
>     also multiple modules in same author's style are easier to
>     understand, and if you're lucky, they'll already have compatible
>     APIs)
>     BTW, you missed this one. :-)
> gs.dmarc by Michael JasonSmith = dunno
> emailprotectionslib by Alex DeFreese = dunno
>
> DMARC
> -----
> + same list as DKIM, basically
>
> SPF
> ---
> pypolicyd-spf by Scott Kitterman
> pyspf by Stuart Gathman = dunno
> sikwan.spfcheck by Francois Vanderkelen = dunno
> hydrate-spf by James Pearson = dunno
> python-slimta-spf by Ian Good = dunno
> pysrs by Stuart Gathman = second package, +0.5
> + most of the DKIM packages
>
> Where I wrote "dunno", I don't know the author offhand.  I'd need to
> Google a bit to decide whether I trust him.  In several cases, my
> guess is that they are not protocol hackers, but rather implementing a
> messaging system that may or may not have email at its center.  Need
> extra attention to auditing accuracy of protocol implementation unless
> they're verified to be IETF contributors.
>
> In any case, code needs to be reviewed for quality (accuracy of
> implementation -- high-quality email posts are no guarantee :-) -- and
> coding technique) and style (if a modified version is needed, you
> might need to distribute with Mailman).
>
> Gotta go, but that should get you started.
>
> Steve
>

From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Feb 13 14:47:18 2016
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2016 11:47:18 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] [Mailman-Users] trouble with multipart and
 moderation
In-Reply-To: <20160213161924.5804110.59593.3149@forcedexposure.com>
References: <5FF61BBEB7BE3A4295C35F3B8C0E9D7E2BC9F4@ROLLINS.ForcedExposure.local>
 <56BE7EEC.8080700@msapiro.net>
 <20160213161924.5804110.59593.3149@forcedexposure.com>
Message-ID: <56BF8846.6090801@msapiro.net>

On 02/13/2016 08:19 AM, Shea Alterio wrote to mailman-users:
> Thanks a bunch for your response, it was very helpful.
> 
>> ?Are you sure your script is generating the
>> multipart/alternative mail correctly? What happens if you sen such a
>> message from your MUA as opposed to your script? Is the problem with all
>> such mail or just mail generated by your script?
> 
> If I send it from a MUA, the text/plain+text/html is delivered
> without issue if sent directly to other accounts. It is properly
> formatted and looks as it should. If I send it into Mailman I get
> just a text/html+text/plain email, but all the html etc. Is shown as
> raw code, as if you were to paste html code into a word processor.


I'm copying this to mailman-developers at python.org and requesting replies
to go there.

What you see should obviously not be happening, but a cursory inspection
of the doc tests which the code passes seems to show this situation is
covered.

In the message received from Mailman, do you also see MIME headers and
boundaries (i.e. headers such as Content-Type:) preceding the text/plain
and text/html content, or do you just see the plain and html text?

Also, what is the python3 version that Mailman is using?

For further analysis of this can you create a very simple test message
in an MUA and send it to a list? The body can be a simple line or two.
Than can you post the entire, raw message source of the sent message and
of the message as received back from the list.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From stephen at xemacs.org  Sun Feb 14 02:31:24 2016
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2016 16:31:24 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] ARC module implementation [was: GSOC 2016]
In-Reply-To: <CAAQRvQ+rLvmvs6UO6670LO+3YUSRQHpPKgANK51outYnf9Jb3A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAAQRvQJSEEbbo-evCz5M5sGxtUkDPa1HRFcD+O7PqDDMNhpKPA@mail.gmail.com>
 <22196.7170.187271.561289@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
 <CAAQRvQLYAHk7phzW+yrzxN444OAG-UQzwtYsJYKftZkkvkdLkA@mail.gmail.com>
 <22203.1955.778022.464138@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
 <CAAQRvQ+rLvmvs6UO6670LO+3YUSRQHpPKgANK51outYnf9Jb3A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <22208.11596.382963.821315@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Aditya Divekar writes:

 > According to the draft, here
 > <https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-andersen-arc-00#section-5.2>,
 > the ARC-Seal header is constructed from the referenced message
 > signatures given by the "k" tag.  I didn't understand this part
 > clearly.

The "k" tag has been removed from the most recent version 02
(2016/02/08).  Note: although I-Ds expire automatically after 6
months, they can be superseded by new versions at any time.  Always
check for a more recent version.  The tools.ietf.org site is very nice
because you can also get diffs to see what you missed (note that many
URLs reference less fancy archives, so if you bookmark one of those
it's useful to edit it to refer to a full-service site such as tools).

 > Do we need to specify the headers (i.e. the ARC-Message signature
 > and ARC-authentication results) that we want to seal in the "k" tag
 > just how we would use the "h" tag in the DKIM signature?

Earlier drafts of the I-D were more than a little confusing here.  I
think it's much better now, but feel free to ask questions.  The
fields added by a particular mediator will be linked by the "i" tag,
see I-D sec. 5.1.1.1.1, 5.1.2.2.3, and 5.1.3.1.

Also, ARC signatures use the "h" tag in the same way as DKIM, except
that the requirements for exactly which headers are are different.
(This is intended to ensure that ARC headers, which by definition are
*not* authorized by the sending domain, are not mistakenly used as
DKIM signatures, which by definition *are* authorized by the sending
domain.  I'm not sure whether this makes sense, but OTOH I don't see
how it can hurt.)  Exactly which headers are signed in an ARC-Seal are
fully specified by the protocol.

 > (The usage of the "k" tag isn't clear to me.)

Mostly the protocol syntax and semantics of ARC are specified in RFC
6376 (see section 5.4 of the I-D).  Selectors are defined in section
3.1.  In the I-D, only the new ARC-Seal field is described in full.
ARC-Message-Signature and ARC-Authentication-Results are described in
terms of differences from the normative RFCs (RFC 6376 for signatures
and RFC 7601 for authentication results).

By the way, top-posting (especially without trimming) should be
avoided in technical discussion.  See
http://turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp/Teach/ESES/socsys-1.html for the
technical advantages and disadvantages of top-posting and interlinear
styles.  Also, note that in mature projects (and specifically Mailman
and Python) most of the senior developers will be old enough to have
been trained in and developed a preference for interlinear posting,
and especially trimming.  Nowadays untrimmed top-posts are hard to
avoid so people are building up tolerance for them, but you can make
friends by taking care with your posting style.

Steve

From sumanah at panix.com  Sun Feb 14 21:32:58 2016
From: sumanah at panix.com (Sumana Harihareswara)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2016 21:32:58 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Dropping Persona
In-Reply-To: <20160129100031.305b6809@subdivisions.wooz.org>
References: <56AB5370.3030205@serve-me.info>
 <20160129100031.305b6809@subdivisions.wooz.org>
Message-ID: <56C138DA.60803@panix.com>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On 29/01/16 10:00, Barry Warsaw wrote:

> The big feature for 3.1 from the core's perspective is reliable
> upgrades from MM2.1.  I know that Aurelien has been working hard on
> that, and that there's still one MR to deal with (#32), but I am
> thinking out loud that if not before, the Pycon 2016 sprints would
> be a good time to release 3.1.
> 
> Cheers, -Barry

I added that idea to https://us.pycon.org/2016/community/sprints/ .

- -- 
Sumana Harihareswara
http://brainwane.net
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From tarunjit.singh.cs at gmail.com  Tue Feb 16 17:26:30 2016
From: tarunjit.singh.cs at gmail.com (Tarunjit Singh)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2016 17:26:30 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Yet another newbie to the "Mailman"
In-Reply-To: <56A6CA96.50107@gmail.com>
References: <CABcgMghk7cv6Vkzb5bS+mWBQ_w-nZZU-RJ3QHrHfd0Z5efg5nw@mail.gmail.com>
 <56A6CA96.50107@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CABcgMgjy+_Op-ZHKn2w1m8e7FJKzTcR6-okURPjUxYFvd+MfYQ@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks Abhilash,

I have just finished going through the Architecture of mailman and was
looking into the GSOC projects for 2016. I saw from the mailing list that
some students have already started reading on 2 of the projects, so I think
I can start on GitLab/development tool integration. I am going to start the
research on the integration from tonight. If you have any pointers to share
regrading this project please let me know.

Thanks
Tarunjit Singh

On Mon, Jan 25, 2016 at 8:23 PM, Abhilash Raj <raj.abhilash1 at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Hi Tarunjit,
>
> On 01/24/2016 08:38 PM, Tarunjit Singh wrote:
> > Hi Fellow Developers,
> >
> > I am a graduate student at University of Toronto, Canada who likes to
> code
> > (mainly in python).
> > I just started to get to know the Mailman product by studying its
> > architecture available on Aosabook <
> http://www.aosabook.org/en/mailman.html>
>
> Awesome! That particular article really sums up the architecture of
> Mailman. If you want to know more, look at Barry's talk/notes from PyCon
> 2012.
>
> > and I am looking forward to contribute to the organization. After reading
> > some of the email chains, I am assuming the best place to start is by
> > looking into issues available here
> > <https://gitlab.com/mailman/mailman/issues/> once I have a better
> > understanding on the product but any newbie advice/guidance is welcome.
>
> Yes, you are on the right track. Try looking for issues that are marked
> "easy" or "beginner-friendly", though there aren't many. You can look
> for bugs in Postorius[1] or Hyperkitty[2] too if you like. They feed
> upon the REST API from the core and are Django based front-end and
> archiver respectively.
>
> Also, instead of solving some random bugs, you can also find a
> particular project from the ideas page that interests you and try
> solving some easy but small "parts" of the project that you can submit
> as an independent patch. Even if you don't end up working on that
> project, it would help you to know the wiring[*] inside mailman a lot
> better.
>
>
> [1]: https://gitlab.com/mailman/postorius/issues
> [2]: https://gitlab.com/mailman/hyperkitty/issues
>
> [*]: There is a lot of wiring and moving parts in mailman. So feel free
> about asking about anything that don't understand, even if its very
> trivial.
>
>
> > Thanks
> > Tarunjit Singh
> > _______________________________________________
> > Mailman-Developers mailing list
> > Mailman-Developers at python.org
> > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers
> > Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
> > Searchable Archives:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-developers%40python.org/
> > Unsubscribe:
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-developers/raj.abhilash1%40gmail.com
> >
> > Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
> >
>
> --
> thanks,
> Abhilash Raj
>
>

From danil at smirnov.la  Wed Feb 17 04:55:39 2016
From: danil at smirnov.la (Danil Smirnov)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2016 11:55:39 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] OfflineGenerationError after mailman-bundler
 install
Message-ID: <CAMrrXbp76nb3p0mHRk0QRuPeemPkRrcwkjZC3RuJZdE1Ca=FnA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi everybody!

After installing last mailman-bundler I've got the following in the
Hyperkitty logs:

ERROR 2016-02-17 03:42:03,804 base 1762 140633939375872 Internal Server
Error: /archives/
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File
"/usr/local/src/mailman-bundler/eggs/Django-1.8.9-py2.7.egg/django/core/handlers/base.py",
line 132, in get_response
    response = wrapped_callback(request, *callback_args, **callback_kwargs)
  File
"/usr/local/src/venv/lib/python2.7/site-packages/hyperkitty/views/index.py",
line 76, in index
    return render(request, "hyperkitty/index.html", context)
  File
"/usr/local/src/mailman-bundler/eggs/Django-1.8.9-py2.7.egg/django/shortcuts.py",
line 67, in render
    template_name, context, request=request, using=using)
  File
"/usr/local/src/mailman-bundler/eggs/Django-1.8.9-py2.7.egg/django/template/loader.py",
line 99, in render_to_string
    return template.render(context, request)
  File
"/usr/local/src/mailman-bundler/eggs/Django-1.8.9-py2.7.egg/django/template/backends/django.py",
line 74, in render
    return self.template.render(context)
  File
"/usr/local/src/mailman-bundler/eggs/Django-1.8.9-py2.7.egg/django/template/base.py",
line 210, in render
    return self._render(context)
  File
"/usr/local/src/mailman-bundler/eggs/Django-1.8.9-py2.7.egg/django/template/base.py",
line 202, in _render
    return self.nodelist.render(context)
  File
"/usr/local/src/mailman-bundler/eggs/Django-1.8.9-py2.7.egg/django/template/base.py",
line 905, in render
    bit = self.render_node(node, context)
  File
"/usr/local/src/mailman-bundler/eggs/Django-1.8.9-py2.7.egg/django/template/base.py",
line 919, in render_node
    return node.render(context)
  File
"/usr/local/src/mailman-bundler/eggs/Django-1.8.9-py2.7.egg/django/template/loader_tags.py",
line 135, in render
    return compiled_parent._render(context)
  File
"/usr/local/src/mailman-bundler/eggs/Django-1.8.9-py2.7.egg/django/template/base.py",
line 202, in _render
    return self.nodelist.render(context)
  File
"/usr/local/src/mailman-bundler/eggs/Django-1.8.9-py2.7.egg/django/template/base.py",
line 905, in render
    bit = self.render_node(node, context)
  File
"/usr/local/src/mailman-bundler/eggs/Django-1.8.9-py2.7.egg/django/template/base.py",
line 919, in render_node
    return node.render(context)
  File
"/usr/local/src/venv/lib/python2.7/site-packages/compressor/templatetags/compress.py",
line 127, in render
    return self.render_compressed(context, self.kind, self.mode,
forced=forced)
  File
"/usr/local/src/venv/lib/python2.7/site-packages/compressor/templatetags/compress.py",
line 86, in render_compressed
    return self.render_offline(context)
  File
"/usr/local/src/venv/lib/python2.7/site-packages/compressor/templatetags/compress.py",
line 71, in render_offline
    'You may need to run "python manage.py compress".' % key)
OfflineGenerationError: You have offline compression enabled but key
"57d3e0fcad3f7e67ac65637e9475af43" is missing from offline manifest. You
may need to run "python manage.py compress".

Please advice how to fix this error properly.

Danil

From danil at smirnov.la  Wed Feb 17 05:12:06 2016
From: danil at smirnov.la (Danil Smirnov)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2016 12:12:06 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] OfflineGenerationError after
 mailman-bundler install
In-Reply-To: <CAMrrXbp76nb3p0mHRk0QRuPeemPkRrcwkjZC3RuJZdE1Ca=FnA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAMrrXbp76nb3p0mHRk0QRuPeemPkRrcwkjZC3RuJZdE1Ca=FnA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAMrrXboW-jT=N0GVLNp60YBFFoxSiWnavNz+gD_-sJqrB_KF4Q@mail.gmail.com>

The error was fixed by bin/mailman-post-update, sorry.

2016-02-17 11:55 GMT+02:00 Danil Smirnov <danil at smirnov.la>:

> Hi everybody!
>
> After installing last mailman-bundler I've got the following in the
> Hyperkitty logs:
>
> ERROR 2016-02-17 03:42:03,804 base 1762 140633939375872 Internal Server
> Error: /archives/
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File
> "/usr/local/src/mailman-bundler/eggs/Django-1.8.9-py2.7.egg/django/core/handlers/base.py",
> line 132, in get_response
>     response = wrapped_callback(request, *callback_args, **callback_kwargs)
>   File
> "/usr/local/src/venv/lib/python2.7/site-packages/hyperkitty/views/index.py",
> line 76, in index
>     return render(request, "hyperkitty/index.html", context)
>   File
> "/usr/local/src/mailman-bundler/eggs/Django-1.8.9-py2.7.egg/django/shortcuts.py",
> line 67, in render
>     template_name, context, request=request, using=using)
>   File
> "/usr/local/src/mailman-bundler/eggs/Django-1.8.9-py2.7.egg/django/template/loader.py",
> line 99, in render_to_string
>     return template.render(context, request)
>   File
> "/usr/local/src/mailman-bundler/eggs/Django-1.8.9-py2.7.egg/django/template/backends/django.py",
> line 74, in render
>     return self.template.render(context)
>   File
> "/usr/local/src/mailman-bundler/eggs/Django-1.8.9-py2.7.egg/django/template/base.py",
> line 210, in render
>     return self._render(context)
>   File
> "/usr/local/src/mailman-bundler/eggs/Django-1.8.9-py2.7.egg/django/template/base.py",
> line 202, in _render
>     return self.nodelist.render(context)
>   File
> "/usr/local/src/mailman-bundler/eggs/Django-1.8.9-py2.7.egg/django/template/base.py",
> line 905, in render
>     bit = self.render_node(node, context)
>   File
> "/usr/local/src/mailman-bundler/eggs/Django-1.8.9-py2.7.egg/django/template/base.py",
> line 919, in render_node
>     return node.render(context)
>   File
> "/usr/local/src/mailman-bundler/eggs/Django-1.8.9-py2.7.egg/django/template/loader_tags.py",
> line 135, in render
>     return compiled_parent._render(context)
>   File
> "/usr/local/src/mailman-bundler/eggs/Django-1.8.9-py2.7.egg/django/template/base.py",
> line 202, in _render
>     return self.nodelist.render(context)
>   File
> "/usr/local/src/mailman-bundler/eggs/Django-1.8.9-py2.7.egg/django/template/base.py",
> line 905, in render
>     bit = self.render_node(node, context)
>   File
> "/usr/local/src/mailman-bundler/eggs/Django-1.8.9-py2.7.egg/django/template/base.py",
> line 919, in render_node
>     return node.render(context)
>   File
> "/usr/local/src/venv/lib/python2.7/site-packages/compressor/templatetags/compress.py",
> line 127, in render
>     return self.render_compressed(context, self.kind, self.mode,
> forced=forced)
>   File
> "/usr/local/src/venv/lib/python2.7/site-packages/compressor/templatetags/compress.py",
> line 86, in render_compressed
>     return self.render_offline(context)
>   File
> "/usr/local/src/venv/lib/python2.7/site-packages/compressor/templatetags/compress.py",
> line 71, in render_offline
>     'You may need to run "python manage.py compress".' % key)
> OfflineGenerationError: You have offline compression enabled but key
> "57d3e0fcad3f7e67ac65637e9475af43" is missing from offline manifest. You
> may need to run "python manage.py compress".
>
> Please advice how to fix this error properly.
>
> Danil
>

From danil at smirnov.la  Wed Feb 17 05:22:37 2016
From: danil at smirnov.la (Danil Smirnov)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2016 12:22:37 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] OfflineGenerationError after
 mailman-bundler install
In-Reply-To: <CAMrrXboW-jT=N0GVLNp60YBFFoxSiWnavNz+gD_-sJqrB_KF4Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAMrrXbp76nb3p0mHRk0QRuPeemPkRrcwkjZC3RuJZdE1Ca=FnA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAMrrXboW-jT=N0GVLNp60YBFFoxSiWnavNz+gD_-sJqrB_KF4Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAMrrXbpP+QBicBLxnB9QXgrENpP--y5g-d_GdZR-BU_dUKQF0Q@mail.gmail.com>

Sorry again, but the error returns after several page refresh - weird, but
it looks like not every opening of the page cause the error!

2016-02-17 12:12 GMT+02:00 Danil Smirnov <danil at smirnov.la>:

> The error was fixed by bin/mailman-post-update, sorry.
>
> 2016-02-17 11:55 GMT+02:00 Danil Smirnov <danil at smirnov.la>:
>
>> Hi everybody!
>>
>> After installing last mailman-bundler I've got the following in the
>> Hyperkitty logs:
>>
>> ERROR 2016-02-17 03:42:03,804 base 1762 140633939375872 Internal Server
>> Error: /archives/
>> Traceback (most recent call last):
>>   File
>> "/usr/local/src/mailman-bundler/eggs/Django-1.8.9-py2.7.egg/django/core/handlers/base.py",
>> line 132, in get_response
>>     response = wrapped_callback(request, *callback_args,
>> **callback_kwargs)
>>   File
>> "/usr/local/src/venv/lib/python2.7/site-packages/hyperkitty/views/index.py",
>> line 76, in index
>>     return render(request, "hyperkitty/index.html", context)
>>   File
>> "/usr/local/src/mailman-bundler/eggs/Django-1.8.9-py2.7.egg/django/shortcuts.py",
>> line 67, in render
>>     template_name, context, request=request, using=using)
>>   File
>> "/usr/local/src/mailman-bundler/eggs/Django-1.8.9-py2.7.egg/django/template/loader.py",
>> line 99, in render_to_string
>>     return template.render(context, request)
>>   File
>> "/usr/local/src/mailman-bundler/eggs/Django-1.8.9-py2.7.egg/django/template/backends/django.py",
>> line 74, in render
>>     return self.template.render(context)
>>   File
>> "/usr/local/src/mailman-bundler/eggs/Django-1.8.9-py2.7.egg/django/template/base.py",
>> line 210, in render
>>     return self._render(context)
>>   File
>> "/usr/local/src/mailman-bundler/eggs/Django-1.8.9-py2.7.egg/django/template/base.py",
>> line 202, in _render
>>     return self.nodelist.render(context)
>>   File
>> "/usr/local/src/mailman-bundler/eggs/Django-1.8.9-py2.7.egg/django/template/base.py",
>> line 905, in render
>>     bit = self.render_node(node, context)
>>   File
>> "/usr/local/src/mailman-bundler/eggs/Django-1.8.9-py2.7.egg/django/template/base.py",
>> line 919, in render_node
>>     return node.render(context)
>>   File
>> "/usr/local/src/mailman-bundler/eggs/Django-1.8.9-py2.7.egg/django/template/loader_tags.py",
>> line 135, in render
>>     return compiled_parent._render(context)
>>   File
>> "/usr/local/src/mailman-bundler/eggs/Django-1.8.9-py2.7.egg/django/template/base.py",
>> line 202, in _render
>>     return self.nodelist.render(context)
>>   File
>> "/usr/local/src/mailman-bundler/eggs/Django-1.8.9-py2.7.egg/django/template/base.py",
>> line 905, in render
>>     bit = self.render_node(node, context)
>>   File
>> "/usr/local/src/mailman-bundler/eggs/Django-1.8.9-py2.7.egg/django/template/base.py",
>> line 919, in render_node
>>     return node.render(context)
>>   File
>> "/usr/local/src/venv/lib/python2.7/site-packages/compressor/templatetags/compress.py",
>> line 127, in render
>>     return self.render_compressed(context, self.kind, self.mode,
>> forced=forced)
>>   File
>> "/usr/local/src/venv/lib/python2.7/site-packages/compressor/templatetags/compress.py",
>> line 86, in render_compressed
>>     return self.render_offline(context)
>>   File
>> "/usr/local/src/venv/lib/python2.7/site-packages/compressor/templatetags/compress.py",
>> line 71, in render_offline
>>     'You may need to run "python manage.py compress".' % key)
>> OfflineGenerationError: You have offline compression enabled but key
>> "57d3e0fcad3f7e67ac65637e9475af43" is missing from offline manifest. You
>> may need to run "python manage.py compress".
>>
>> Please advice how to fix this error properly.
>>
>> Danil
>>
>
>

From adityadivekar03 at gmail.com  Wed Feb 17 06:29:57 2016
From: adityadivekar03 at gmail.com (Aditya Divekar)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2016 16:59:57 +0530
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] ARC module implementation [was: GSOC 2016]
In-Reply-To: <22208.11596.382963.821315@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <CAAQRvQJSEEbbo-evCz5M5sGxtUkDPa1HRFcD+O7PqDDMNhpKPA@mail.gmail.com>
 <22196.7170.187271.561289@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
 <CAAQRvQLYAHk7phzW+yrzxN444OAG-UQzwtYsJYKftZkkvkdLkA@mail.gmail.com>
 <22203.1955.778022.464138@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
 <CAAQRvQ+rLvmvs6UO6670LO+3YUSRQHpPKgANK51outYnf9Jb3A@mail.gmail.com>
 <22208.11596.382963.821315@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <CAAQRvQLTogPi6SZxVfbQSyx6Af+QRtHtKSNtJgAS0zFzYAkDDA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Steve,
I have read through the dkimpy library functions and it seems that the code
needs to be modified to generate the ARC headers, and I have started making
some changes. I'm making these changes in view of generating the AMS for
now using the sign(...) method of the library that is by default used for
generating the dkim signature. Since the AAR is simply a copy, it can be
picked up using a separate method and appended at the end of the AMS later.
I have hosted the code at github here.
<https://github.com/adityadivekar03/dkimpy>, and will keep posting the
changes there as I proceed. Any input from your side would be great :)
Thanks!

Aditya

From danil at smirnov.la  Wed Feb 17 06:33:04 2016
From: danil at smirnov.la (Danil Smirnov)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2016 13:33:04 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] OfflineGenerationError after
 mailman-bundler install
In-Reply-To: <CAMrrXbpP+QBicBLxnB9QXgrENpP--y5g-d_GdZR-BU_dUKQF0Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAMrrXbp76nb3p0mHRk0QRuPeemPkRrcwkjZC3RuJZdE1Ca=FnA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAMrrXboW-jT=N0GVLNp60YBFFoxSiWnavNz+gD_-sJqrB_KF4Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAMrrXbpP+QBicBLxnB9QXgrENpP--y5g-d_GdZR-BU_dUKQF0Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAMrrXbr8HCH2=pD0D9BEW+mb+YMwL79A8Wx6PqvDAxnQgzzPpQ@mail.gmail.com>

The error was gone after several reconfigurations/reboots. Still have no
idea what it was...

2016-02-17 12:22 GMT+02:00 Danil Smirnov <danil at smirnov.la>:

> Sorry again, but the error returns after several page refresh - weird, but
> it looks like not every opening of the page cause the error!
>
> 2016-02-17 12:12 GMT+02:00 Danil Smirnov <danil at smirnov.la>:
>
>> The error was fixed by bin/mailman-post-update, sorry.
>>
>> 2016-02-17 11:55 GMT+02:00 Danil Smirnov <danil at smirnov.la>:
>>
>>> Hi everybody!
>>>
>>> After installing last mailman-bundler I've got the following in the
>>> Hyperkitty logs:
>>>
>>> ERROR 2016-02-17 03:42:03,804 base 1762 140633939375872 Internal Server
>>> Error: /archives/
>>> Traceback (most recent call last):
>>>   File
>>> "/usr/local/src/mailman-bundler/eggs/Django-1.8.9-py2.7.egg/django/core/handlers/base.py",
>>> line 132, in get_response
>>>     response = wrapped_callback(request, *callback_args,
>>> **callback_kwargs)
>>>   File
>>> "/usr/local/src/venv/lib/python2.7/site-packages/hyperkitty/views/index.py",
>>> line 76, in index
>>>     return render(request, "hyperkitty/index.html", context)
>>>   File
>>> "/usr/local/src/mailman-bundler/eggs/Django-1.8.9-py2.7.egg/django/shortcuts.py",
>>> line 67, in render
>>>     template_name, context, request=request, using=using)
>>>   File
>>> "/usr/local/src/mailman-bundler/eggs/Django-1.8.9-py2.7.egg/django/template/loader.py",
>>> line 99, in render_to_string
>>>     return template.render(context, request)
>>>   File
>>> "/usr/local/src/mailman-bundler/eggs/Django-1.8.9-py2.7.egg/django/template/backends/django.py",
>>> line 74, in render
>>>     return self.template.render(context)
>>>   File
>>> "/usr/local/src/mailman-bundler/eggs/Django-1.8.9-py2.7.egg/django/template/base.py",
>>> line 210, in render
>>>     return self._render(context)
>>>   File
>>> "/usr/local/src/mailman-bundler/eggs/Django-1.8.9-py2.7.egg/django/template/base.py",
>>> line 202, in _render
>>>     return self.nodelist.render(context)
>>>   File
>>> "/usr/local/src/mailman-bundler/eggs/Django-1.8.9-py2.7.egg/django/template/base.py",
>>> line 905, in render
>>>     bit = self.render_node(node, context)
>>>   File
>>> "/usr/local/src/mailman-bundler/eggs/Django-1.8.9-py2.7.egg/django/template/base.py",
>>> line 919, in render_node
>>>     return node.render(context)
>>>   File
>>> "/usr/local/src/mailman-bundler/eggs/Django-1.8.9-py2.7.egg/django/template/loader_tags.py",
>>> line 135, in render
>>>     return compiled_parent._render(context)
>>>   File
>>> "/usr/local/src/mailman-bundler/eggs/Django-1.8.9-py2.7.egg/django/template/base.py",
>>> line 202, in _render
>>>     return self.nodelist.render(context)
>>>   File
>>> "/usr/local/src/mailman-bundler/eggs/Django-1.8.9-py2.7.egg/django/template/base.py",
>>> line 905, in render
>>>     bit = self.render_node(node, context)
>>>   File
>>> "/usr/local/src/mailman-bundler/eggs/Django-1.8.9-py2.7.egg/django/template/base.py",
>>> line 919, in render_node
>>>     return node.render(context)
>>>   File
>>> "/usr/local/src/venv/lib/python2.7/site-packages/compressor/templatetags/compress.py",
>>> line 127, in render
>>>     return self.render_compressed(context, self.kind, self.mode,
>>> forced=forced)
>>>   File
>>> "/usr/local/src/venv/lib/python2.7/site-packages/compressor/templatetags/compress.py",
>>> line 86, in render_compressed
>>>     return self.render_offline(context)
>>>   File
>>> "/usr/local/src/venv/lib/python2.7/site-packages/compressor/templatetags/compress.py",
>>> line 71, in render_offline
>>>     'You may need to run "python manage.py compress".' % key)
>>> OfflineGenerationError: You have offline compression enabled but key
>>> "57d3e0fcad3f7e67ac65637e9475af43" is missing from offline manifest. You
>>> may need to run "python manage.py compress".
>>>
>>> Please advice how to fix this error properly.
>>>
>>> Danil
>>>
>>
>>
>

From danil at smirnov.la  Wed Feb 17 06:48:55 2016
From: danil at smirnov.la (Danil Smirnov)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2016 13:48:55 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] can't login with Google/Yahoo (last
 mailman-bundler)
Message-ID: <CAMrrXbqJqxCaOdYaZN+9XjZVMkzC6=hpGd6BAFCKr1rkHcd7EA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi devs!

I'm still need your advices...
Now I have the following errors when trying to authenticate with Google or
Yahoo:

---
ERROR 2016-02-17 05:40:44,363 base 1690 139772999759616 Internal Server
Error: /login/google/
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File
"/usr/local/src/mailman-bundler/eggs/Django-1.8.9-py2.7.egg/django/core/handlers/base.py",
line 132, in get_response
    response = wrapped_callback(request, *callback_args, **callback_kwargs)
  File
"/usr/local/src/mailman-bundler/eggs/Django-1.8.9-py2.7.egg/django/views/decorators/cache.py",
line 57, in _wrapped_view_func
    response = view_func(request, *args, **kwargs)
  File
"/usr/local/src/venv/lib/python2.7/site-packages/social/apps/django_app/utils.py",
line 51, in wrapper
    return func(request, backend, *args, **kwargs)
TypeError: auth() got an unexpected keyword argument 'SSL'
---

Please advice how to manage this...

Danil

From danil at smirnov.la  Wed Feb 17 07:36:40 2016
From: danil at smirnov.la (Danil Smirnov)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2016 14:36:40 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] can't login with Google/Yahoo (last
 mailman-bundler)
In-Reply-To: <CAMrrXbqJqxCaOdYaZN+9XjZVMkzC6=hpGd6BAFCKr1rkHcd7EA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAMrrXbqJqxCaOdYaZN+9XjZVMkzC6=hpGd6BAFCKr1rkHcd7EA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAMrrXboEW1_NfjsRi2SGXgasGY+eHeZPzBdd6z523-Kc1KMr6w@mail.gmail.com>

I suspect I need to add my httpd configuration:

---

<VirtualHost 1.2.3.4:80>
SuexecUserGroup "#500" "#500"
ServerName lists.domain.tld
ServerAlias www.lists.domain.tld
ServerAlias webmail.lists.domain.tld
ServerAlias admin.lists.domain.tld
DocumentRoot /home/mailman3/domains/lists.domain.tld/public_html
ErrorLog /var/log/virtualmin/lists.domain.tld_error_log
CustomLog /var/log/virtualmin/lists.domain.tld_access_log combined
ScriptAlias /cgi-bin/ /home/mailman3/domains/lists.domain.tld/cgi-bin/
ScriptAlias /awstats/ /home/mailman3/domains/lists.domain.tld/cgi-bin/
DirectoryIndex index.html index.htm index.php index.php4 index.php5
<Directory /home/mailman3/domains/lists.domain.tld/public_html>
Options -Indexes +IncludesNOEXEC +SymLinksIfOwnerMatch +ExecCGI
allow from all
AllowOverride All
Options=ExecCGI,Includes,IncludesNOEXEC,Indexes,MultiViews,SymLinksIfOwnerMatch
Require all granted
AddType application/x-httpd-php .php
AddHandler fcgid-script .php
AddHandler fcgid-script .php5
FCGIWrapper /home/mailman3/domains/lists.domain.tld/fcgi-bin/php5.fcgi .php
FCGIWrapper /home/mailman3/domains/lists.domain.tld/fcgi-bin/php5.fcgi .php5
</Directory>
<Directory /home/mailman3/domains/lists.domain.tld/cgi-bin>
allow from all
AllowOverride All
Options=ExecCGI,Includes,IncludesNOEXEC,Indexes,MultiViews,SymLinksIfOwnerMatch
Require all granted
</Directory>
RewriteEngine on
RewriteCond %{HTTP_HOST} =webmail.lists.domain.tld
RewriteRule ^(.*) https://lists.domain.tld:20000/ [R]
RewriteCond %{HTTP_HOST} =admin.lists.domain.tld
RewriteRule ^(.*) https://lists.domain.tld:10000/ [R]
RemoveHandler .php
RemoveHandler .php5
php_admin_value engine Off
IPCCommTimeout 31
FcgidMaxRequestLen 1073741824
<Files awstats.pl>
AuthName "lists.domain.tld statistics"
AuthType Basic
AuthUserFile /home/mailman3/domains/lists.domain.tld/.awstats-htpasswd
require valid-user
</Files>

# Here, use the value of the STATIC_ROOT variable in your Django
configuration file (production.py)
Alias /robots.txt  /var/spool/mailman-web/static/hyperkitty/robots.txt
Alias /favicon.ico /var/spool/mailman-web/static/hyperkitty/favicon.ico
Alias /static      /var/spool/mailman-web/static
<Directory "/var/spool/mailman-web/static">
    Order deny,allow
    Allow from all
    Require all granted
</Directory>

#ErrorLog /var/log/httpd/mailman-web_error.log
#CustomLog /var/log/httpd/mailman-web_access.log combined

WSGIScriptAlias / /usr/local/src/mailman-bundler/bin/mailman-web.wsgi
WSGIDaemonProcess mailman-web display-name=mailman-web
maximum-requests=1000 processes=4 threads=4
python-path=/usr/local/src/venv/lib/python2.7/site-packages

<Directory "/usr/local/src/mailman-bundler/bin">
    <Files mailman-web.wsgi>
        Order deny,allow
        Allow from all
        Require all granted
    </Files>
    WSGIProcessGroup mailman-web
</Directory>

</VirtualHost>
---

2016-02-17 13:48 GMT+02:00 Danil Smirnov <danil at smirnov.la>:

> Hi devs!
>
> I'm still need your advices...
> Now I have the following errors when trying to authenticate with Google or
> Yahoo:
>
> ---
> ERROR 2016-02-17 05:40:44,363 base 1690 139772999759616 Internal Server
> Error: /login/google/
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File
> "/usr/local/src/mailman-bundler/eggs/Django-1.8.9-py2.7.egg/django/core/handlers/base.py",
> line 132, in get_response
>     response = wrapped_callback(request, *callback_args, **callback_kwargs)
>   File
> "/usr/local/src/mailman-bundler/eggs/Django-1.8.9-py2.7.egg/django/views/decorators/cache.py",
> line 57, in _wrapped_view_func
>     response = view_func(request, *args, **kwargs)
>   File
> "/usr/local/src/venv/lib/python2.7/site-packages/social/apps/django_app/utils.py",
> line 51, in wrapper
>     return func(request, backend, *args, **kwargs)
> TypeError: auth() got an unexpected keyword argument 'SSL'
> ---
>
> Please advice how to manage this...
>
> Danil
>

From stephen at xemacs.org  Wed Feb 17 08:35:36 2016
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2016 22:35:36 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] ARC module implementation [was: GSOC 2016]
In-Reply-To: <CAAQRvQLTogPi6SZxVfbQSyx6Af+QRtHtKSNtJgAS0zFzYAkDDA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAAQRvQJSEEbbo-evCz5M5sGxtUkDPa1HRFcD+O7PqDDMNhpKPA@mail.gmail.com>
 <22196.7170.187271.561289@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
 <CAAQRvQLYAHk7phzW+yrzxN444OAG-UQzwtYsJYKftZkkvkdLkA@mail.gmail.com>
 <22203.1955.778022.464138@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
 <CAAQRvQ+rLvmvs6UO6670LO+3YUSRQHpPKgANK51outYnf9Jb3A@mail.gmail.com>
 <22208.11596.382963.821315@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
 <CAAQRvQLTogPi6SZxVfbQSyx6Af+QRtHtKSNtJgAS0zFzYAkDDA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <22212.30504.386549.259204@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Aditya Divekar writes:

 > I have read through the dkimpy library functions and it seems that the code
 > needs to be modified to generate the ARC headers, and I have started making
 > some changes.

I don't think it's a great idea to change the dkimpy library if you
can avoid it.  The design I had in mind would add a file for
performing ARC operations such as generating fields, and for dkimpy to
simply provide the functions for generating the signatures.

This probably requires some refactoring of dkimpy.  It might also
require generalizing the canonicalization functions to handle the
ARC-specific field sets if there are any hard-coded headers in the
DKIM code.  You might also look at the alternatives to see if they are
better factored for this purpose.

 > I have hosted the code at github here.
 > <https://github.com/adityadivekar03/dkimpy>,

I haven't done cross-host work before, but you will surely need a
gitlab account eventually to file the merge request.

I will try to take a look at the code over the weekend.  I did want to
make the comments on the factoring of the code ASAP, before you do too
much work.


From simon.hanna at serve-me.info  Wed Feb 17 13:02:16 2016
From: simon.hanna at serve-me.info (Simon Hanna)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2016 19:02:16 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Dropping Persona
In-Reply-To: <56AC9C6F.4080609@serve-me.info>
References: <56AB5370.3030205@serve-me.info>
 <20160129100031.305b6809@subdivisions.wooz.org>
 <62a8d6f2d4e70d5401f7ef404f6e782f@florianfuchs.com>
 <56AC9C6F.4080609@serve-me.info>
Message-ID: <56C4B5A8.8080902@serve-me.info>

> I just found another solution: django-allauth
> http://www.intenct.nl/projects/django-allauth/
> http://django-allauth.readthedocs.org/en/latest/overview.html
> https://github.com/pennersr/django-allauth
> 
> It's a relatively large project. It has 2000+ stars and about 800 forks on github. The other two I
> introduced can't get these values when adding them together.
> 
> About their functionalit quoting from their docs:
> * Signup of both local and social accounts
> * Connecting more than one social account to a local account
> * Disconnecting a social account ? requires setting a password if only the local account remains
> * Optional instant-signup for social accounts ? no questions asked
> * E-mail address management (multiple e-mail addresses, setting a primary)
> * Password forgotten flow
> * E-mail address verification flow
> 
> They are basically supporting every OAuth provider out there
> 
> They have more signals than the other two projects I introduced. Some of them are:
> * when a user signs up
> * when a user adds an email
> * when the user removes an email
> 
> I didn't look at the code yet but I think they are only using emails and not usernames.

I just opened a merge request over at postorius
https://gitlab.com/mailman/postorius/merge_requests/91

It includes basic functionality for django-allauth. All the included code should work, the merge
request contains info about what still needs to be done. What do you think?




From danil at smirnov.la  Thu Feb 18 04:06:11 2016
From: danil at smirnov.la (Danil Smirnov)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2016 11:06:11 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] can't login with Google/Yahoo (last
 mailman-bundler)
In-Reply-To: <CAMrrXboEW1_NfjsRi2SGXgasGY+eHeZPzBdd6z523-Kc1KMr6w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAMrrXbqJqxCaOdYaZN+9XjZVMkzC6=hpGd6BAFCKr1rkHcd7EA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAMrrXboEW1_NfjsRi2SGXgasGY+eHeZPzBdd6z523-Kc1KMr6w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAMrrXbrnPR5_b_von0CRJYRmxUK9EY6cGs14_FWpdHQR-FgSCA@mail.gmail.com>

I'm sorry if it's not right place to ask for the support but there is no
information regarding the issue in Google as well as
mailman-dev/mailman-user lists. So I'm stale in the issue and have no idea
what to do. If you can give me just a direction to dig, it would be very
helpful...

2016-02-17 14:36 GMT+02:00 Danil Smirnov <danil at smirnov.la>:

> I suspect I need to add my httpd configuration:
>
> ---
>
> <VirtualHost 1.2.3.4:80>
> SuexecUserGroup "#500" "#500"
> ServerName lists.domain.tld
> ServerAlias www.lists.domain.tld
> ServerAlias webmail.lists.domain.tld
> ServerAlias admin.lists.domain.tld
> DocumentRoot /home/mailman3/domains/lists.domain.tld/public_html
> ErrorLog /var/log/virtualmin/lists.domain.tld_error_log
> CustomLog /var/log/virtualmin/lists.domain.tld_access_log combined
> ScriptAlias /cgi-bin/ /home/mailman3/domains/lists.domain.tld/cgi-bin/
> ScriptAlias /awstats/ /home/mailman3/domains/lists.domain.tld/cgi-bin/
> DirectoryIndex index.html index.htm index.php index.php4 index.php5
> <Directory /home/mailman3/domains/lists.domain.tld/public_html>
> Options -Indexes +IncludesNOEXEC +SymLinksIfOwnerMatch +ExecCGI
> allow from all
> AllowOverride All
> Options=ExecCGI,Includes,IncludesNOEXEC,Indexes,MultiViews,SymLinksIfOwnerMatch
> Require all granted
> AddType application/x-httpd-php .php
> AddHandler fcgid-script .php
> AddHandler fcgid-script .php5
> FCGIWrapper /home/mailman3/domains/lists.domain.tld/fcgi-bin/php5.fcgi .php
> FCGIWrapper /home/mailman3/domains/lists.domain.tld/fcgi-bin/php5.fcgi
> .php5
> </Directory>
> <Directory /home/mailman3/domains/lists.domain.tld/cgi-bin>
> allow from all
> AllowOverride All
> Options=ExecCGI,Includes,IncludesNOEXEC,Indexes,MultiViews,SymLinksIfOwnerMatch
> Require all granted
> </Directory>
> RewriteEngine on
> RewriteCond %{HTTP_HOST} =webmail.lists.domain.tld
> RewriteRule ^(.*) https://lists.domain.tld:20000/ [R]
> RewriteCond %{HTTP_HOST} =admin.lists.domain.tld
> RewriteRule ^(.*) https://lists.domain.tld:10000/ [R]
> RemoveHandler .php
> RemoveHandler .php5
> php_admin_value engine Off
> IPCCommTimeout 31
> FcgidMaxRequestLen 1073741824
> <Files awstats.pl>
> AuthName "lists.domain.tld statistics"
> AuthType Basic
> AuthUserFile /home/mailman3/domains/lists.domain.tld/.awstats-htpasswd
> require valid-user
> </Files>
>
> # Here, use the value of the STATIC_ROOT variable in your Django
> configuration file (production.py)
> Alias /robots.txt  /var/spool/mailman-web/static/hyperkitty/robots.txt
> Alias /favicon.ico /var/spool/mailman-web/static/hyperkitty/favicon.ico
> Alias /static      /var/spool/mailman-web/static
> <Directory "/var/spool/mailman-web/static">
>     Order deny,allow
>     Allow from all
>     Require all granted
> </Directory>
>
> #ErrorLog /var/log/httpd/mailman-web_error.log
> #CustomLog /var/log/httpd/mailman-web_access.log combined
>
> WSGIScriptAlias / /usr/local/src/mailman-bundler/bin/mailman-web.wsgi
> WSGIDaemonProcess mailman-web display-name=mailman-web
> maximum-requests=1000 processes=4 threads=4
> python-path=/usr/local/src/venv/lib/python2.7/site-packages
>
> <Directory "/usr/local/src/mailman-bundler/bin">
>     <Files mailman-web.wsgi>
>         Order deny,allow
>         Allow from all
>         Require all granted
>     </Files>
>     WSGIProcessGroup mailman-web
> </Directory>
>
> </VirtualHost>
> ---
>
> 2016-02-17 13:48 GMT+02:00 Danil Smirnov <danil at smirnov.la>:
>
>> Hi devs!
>>
>> I'm still need your advices...
>> Now I have the following errors when trying to authenticate with Google
>> or Yahoo:
>>
>> ---
>> ERROR 2016-02-17 05:40:44,363 base 1690 139772999759616 Internal Server
>> Error: /login/google/
>> Traceback (most recent call last):
>>   File
>> "/usr/local/src/mailman-bundler/eggs/Django-1.8.9-py2.7.egg/django/core/handlers/base.py",
>> line 132, in get_response
>>     response = wrapped_callback(request, *callback_args,
>> **callback_kwargs)
>>   File
>> "/usr/local/src/mailman-bundler/eggs/Django-1.8.9-py2.7.egg/django/views/decorators/cache.py",
>> line 57, in _wrapped_view_func
>>     response = view_func(request, *args, **kwargs)
>>   File
>> "/usr/local/src/venv/lib/python2.7/site-packages/social/apps/django_app/utils.py",
>> line 51, in wrapper
>>     return func(request, backend, *args, **kwargs)
>> TypeError: auth() got an unexpected keyword argument 'SSL'
>> ---
>>
>> Please advice how to manage this...
>>
>> Danil
>>
>
>

From becue at crans.org  Fri Feb 19 05:26:15 2016
From: becue at crans.org (Pierre-Elliott =?iso-8859-1?Q?B=E9cue?=)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2016 11:26:15 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Let's try to package mailman3 in Debian!
In-Reply-To: <20151214160157.GF25749@crans.org>
References: <20150910224944.GM8564@crans.org>
 <20151123015627.GB10971@crans.org>
 <20151214160157.GF25749@crans.org>
Message-ID: <20160219102615.GM25992@crans.org>

Le lundi 14 d?cembre 2015 ? 17:01:57+0100, Pierre-Elliott B?cue a ?crit?:
> Le lundi 23 novembre 2015 ? 02:56:27+0100, Pierre-Elliott B?cue a ?crit?:
> > Le vendredi 11 septembre 2015 ? 00:49:44+0200, Pierre-Elliott B?cue a ?crit?:
> > > [packaging mailman3]
> > 
> > Hey,
> > 
> > Here is an update.
> > 
> > For now on, I focused on mailman3-core package in order to get good
> > practices working.
> > 
> > One can find my work here : https://github.com/P-EB/mailman3-core
> > 
> > I'm working on having working systemd/sysv services and after that it'll be
> > a good idea to try installing the package and see how it goes.
> > 
> > I also have to design a good config file for debian, (see
> > debian/contrib/mailman.cfg in master branch). Any suggestion is welcome!
> > 
> > Cheers
> 
> Small bump here, I'd appreciate if somebody finds the time to tell me two
> things:
> 
>  * Is my config file enough for a start??
>  * Is my systemd service good to have mailman started properly??
> 
> I'd rather be sure it's okay before writing a sysv service.
> 
> You can find contrib files in debian/contrib.

Hello!

Before requesting for sponsorship, and packaging officially the other
components of mailman3, I'd like some "testers" for the core package I
built, in order to be sure that it works, and that I will not introduce some
stupid caveats on the packaging of the other components.

.deb can be found here: http://peb.pimeys.fr/mailman/mailman3-core/
git repo can be found there: https://gitlab.pimeys.fr/PEB/mailman3-core
and there: https://github.com/P-EB/mailman3-core

Any volunteer welcome! Please, I need your help, I cannot review my work
alone! :)

-- 
PEB

From adityadivekar03 at gmail.com  Fri Feb 19 14:57:29 2016
From: adityadivekar03 at gmail.com (Aditya Divekar)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2016 01:27:29 +0530
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] ARC module implementation [was: GSOC 2016]
In-Reply-To: <22212.30504.386549.259204@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <CAAQRvQJSEEbbo-evCz5M5sGxtUkDPa1HRFcD+O7PqDDMNhpKPA@mail.gmail.com>
 <22196.7170.187271.561289@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
 <CAAQRvQLYAHk7phzW+yrzxN444OAG-UQzwtYsJYKftZkkvkdLkA@mail.gmail.com>
 <22203.1955.778022.464138@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
 <CAAQRvQ+rLvmvs6UO6670LO+3YUSRQHpPKgANK51outYnf9Jb3A@mail.gmail.com>
 <22208.11596.382963.821315@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
 <CAAQRvQLTogPi6SZxVfbQSyx6Af+QRtHtKSNtJgAS0zFzYAkDDA@mail.gmail.com>
 <22212.30504.386549.259204@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <CAAQRvQKnfxMR5tyHiAHjpmCbigEJNL=dR4erj0wsVVtXoRJVRQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Stephen,

Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:

>
> I don't think it's a great idea to change the dkimpy library if you
> can avoid it.  The design I had in mind would add a file for
> performing ARC operations such as generating fields, and for dkimpy to
> simply provide the functions for generating the signatures.
>
> I have taken your suggestion, and started working on a separate branch to
generate the ams from the original dkimpy package.
I've created a directory where I can add all the files to generate (or
edit) the signature from the dkim library.

This probably requires some refactoring of dkimpy.  It might also
> require generalizing the canonicalization functions to handle the
> ARC-specific field sets if there are any hard-coded headers in the
> DKIM code.  You might also look at the alternatives to see if they are
> better factored for this purpose.


Yes, some minor changes will be required I believe, like changing the
default frozen headers to be signed or the tags to be added in the sign.
Still, some of them can be circumvented by editing the generated signature
in a separate file.
And yes, I'll go through the other packages you suggested before to see if
I am able to read them better than dkimpy.

>
> I haven't done cross-host work before, but you will surely need a
> gitlab account eventually to file the merge request.
>
> I will try to take a look at the code over the weekend.  I did want to
> make the comments on the factoring of the code ASAP, before you do too
> much work.
>
> I have actually just started working on the repo, and hence there are only
a couple of files that I have committed now.
And yes, I've just pushed the files to github as of now, so that I am able
to get your insight in the proceedings. I'll start working in gitlab soon
once I'm able to come up with a sketch of things.

Thanks!

Aditya

From stephen at xemacs.org  Sat Feb 20 03:13:58 2016
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2016 17:13:58 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] ARC module implementation [was: GSOC 2016]
In-Reply-To: <CAAQRvQKnfxMR5tyHiAHjpmCbigEJNL=dR4erj0wsVVtXoRJVRQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAAQRvQJSEEbbo-evCz5M5sGxtUkDPa1HRFcD+O7PqDDMNhpKPA@mail.gmail.com>
 <22196.7170.187271.561289@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
 <CAAQRvQLYAHk7phzW+yrzxN444OAG-UQzwtYsJYKftZkkvkdLkA@mail.gmail.com>
 <22203.1955.778022.464138@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
 <CAAQRvQ+rLvmvs6UO6670LO+3YUSRQHpPKgANK51outYnf9Jb3A@mail.gmail.com>
 <22208.11596.382963.821315@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
 <CAAQRvQLTogPi6SZxVfbQSyx6Af+QRtHtKSNtJgAS0zFzYAkDDA@mail.gmail.com>
 <22212.30504.386549.259204@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
 <CAAQRvQKnfxMR5tyHiAHjpmCbigEJNL=dR4erj0wsVVtXoRJVRQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <22216.8262.735974.257856@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Aditya Divekar writes:

 > I have taken your suggestion, and started working on a separate
 > branch to generate the ams from the original dkimpy package.

Student applications will be opening shortly.  You should finish up
anything that is in your head but not in a file soon, and start
preparing your application.

We will want to see a reviewable patch on the tracker as part of that
application (it can be something trivial like a doc patch).  Exactly
what is required isn't set yet (most of us are also busy with PSF org
admin details as well as Mailman stuff), but it won't be related to
this project because this project is "too big" to seriously consider
reviewing soon.  And you don't have to worry about whether we get
around to actually merging it; it just has to be in good enough shape
to review.

The scheduling part is important, and you probably haven't done
anything like it before (scheduling a project you design is very
different from picking classes from a course catalog!)

Steve

From berni at birkenwald.de  Sat Feb 20 14:52:49 2016
From: berni at birkenwald.de (Bernhard Schmidt)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2016 19:52:49 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Let's try to package mailman3 in Debian!
References: <20150910224944.GM8564@crans.org>
 <20151123015627.GB10971@crans.org> <20151214160157.GF25749@crans.org>
 <20160219102615.GM25992@crans.org>
Message-ID: <naag6h$j7d$1@ger.gmane.org>

Pierre-Elliott B?cue <becue at crans.org> wrote:

Hi Pierre,

> Before requesting for sponsorship, and packaging officially the other
> components of mailman3, I'd like some "testers" for the core package I
> built, in order to be sure that it works, and that I will not introduce some
> stupid caveats on the packaging of the other components.
>
> .deb can be found here: http://peb.pimeys.fr/mailman/mailman3-core/
> git repo can be found there: https://gitlab.pimeys.fr/PEB/mailman3-core
> and there: https://github.com/P-EB/mailman3-core
>
> Any volunteer welcome! Please, I need your help, I cannot review my work
> alone! :)

I just tried to have a look in a stretch docker image.

- There are three .deb files on your webserver

  mailman3-core_3.0.0-1_all.deb
  mailman3-core_3.0.0-3_all.deb
  mailman3-core_3.0.0-3_amd64.deb

  It is not immediately obvious which one to test, since -1 has actually
  a newer timestamp.

- Mailman Core 3.0.1 and 3.0.2 have been released in the meantime

- it does not work on stretch/sid because it is not compatible with
  Python 3.5, see https://gitlab.com/mailman/mailman/issues/181

- it does not install on Jessie (even with jessie-backports because of
  missing dependencies) (just a note because of not working on stretch
  either)

- The systemd unit won't work because the parameter for the
  configuration file is '-C', not '-c'

- installing python3.4 and changing the shebang in /usr/bin/mailman
  leads to the following error

  root at 4ca9477a166c:~# /usr/bin/mailman -C /etc/mailman3/mailman.cfg start
  Starting Mailman's master runner
  /usr/bin/python3.4: can't open file '/var/lib/mailman/bin/master':
  [Errno 2] No such file or directory

  The files are installed in /var/lib/mailman3/bin, but bin_dir in
  /etc/mailman3/mailman.cfg points to /var/lib/mailman/bin ... both
  directories are wrong from my POV, it should probably be
  /usr/lib/mailman3 or something like that

- Fixing this up leads to

  root at 4ca9477a166c:~# /usr/bin/mailman -C /etc/mailman3/mailman.cfg start
  Starting Mailman's master runner
  Traceback (most recent call last):
    File "/var/lib/mailman3/bin/master", line 9, in <module>
      load_entry_point('mailman==3.0.0', 'console_scripts', 'master')()
    File "/usr/lib/python3/dist-packages/mailman/bin/master.py", line 536,
  in main
      with open(config.PID_FILE, 'w') as fp:
  FileNotFoundError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory:
  '/run/mailman3/master.pid'

  because the directory does not exist. Since you are shipping a systemd
  unit only you should probably ship a .tmpfile as well.

I now have a running daemon. I haven't done anything with Mailman3 so
far, so I need to read up on that first.

Bernhard


From becue at crans.org  Sun Feb 21 22:33:04 2016
From: becue at crans.org (Pierre-Elliott =?iso-8859-1?Q?B=E9cue?=)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2016 04:33:04 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Let's try to package mailman3 in Debian!
In-Reply-To: <naag6h$j7d$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <20150910224944.GM8564@crans.org>
 <20151123015627.GB10971@crans.org>
 <20151214160157.GF25749@crans.org>
 <20160219102615.GM25992@crans.org> <naag6h$j7d$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <20160222033304.GN25992@crans.org>

Le samedi 20 f?vrier 2016 ? 19:52:49+0000, Bernhard Schmidt a ?crit?:
> Pierre-Elliott B?cue <becue at crans.org> wrote:
> 
> Hi Pierre,
> 
> > Before requesting for sponsorship, and packaging officially the other
> > components of mailman3, I'd like some "testers" for the core package I
> > built, in order to be sure that it works, and that I will not introduce some
> > stupid caveats on the packaging of the other components.
> >
> > .deb can be found here: http://peb.pimeys.fr/mailman/mailman3-core/
> > git repo can be found there: https://gitlab.pimeys.fr/PEB/mailman3-core
> > and there: https://github.com/P-EB/mailman3-core
> >
> > Any volunteer welcome! Please, I need your help, I cannot review my work
> > alone! :)
> 
> I just tried to have a look in a stretch docker image.
> 
> - There are three .deb files on your webserver
> 
>   mailman3-core_3.0.0-1_all.deb
>   mailman3-core_3.0.0-3_all.deb
>   mailman3-core_3.0.0-3_amd64.deb
> 
>   It is not immediately obvious which one to test, since -1 has actually
>   a newer timestamp.

The good version is actually the 3.0.0-1, sorry for the remaining stuff, I
removed it.

> - Mailman Core 3.0.1 and 3.0.2 have been released in the meantime

Yes, I'll ask to mailman devels how clever it'd be to take 3.0.2 for
packaging now.

> - it does not work on stretch/sid because it is not compatible with
>   Python 3.5, see https://gitlab.com/mailman/mailman/issues/181

Yeah, during my tries I didn't met this issue. I guess it's because 3.5
wasn't in. I'll work on it as I'm not fully aware of how to enforce 3.4.

> - it does not install on Jessie (even with jessie-backports because of
>   missing dependencies) (just a note because of not working on stretch
>   either)

Backporting all mailman3 suite will not be simple I guess, but I intend
doing so when and if my packaging for sid succeeds.

> - The systemd unit won't work because the parameter for the
>   configuration file is '-C', not '-c'

My bad, I really thought I've fixed it before sending this email.

> - installing python3.4 and changing the shebang in /usr/bin/mailman
>   leads to the following error
> 
>   root at 4ca9477a166c:~# /usr/bin/mailman -C /etc/mailman3/mailman.cfg start
>   Starting Mailman's master runner
>   /usr/bin/python3.4: can't open file '/var/lib/mailman/bin/master':
>   [Errno 2] No such file or directory
> 
>   The files are installed in /var/lib/mailman3/bin, but bin_dir in
>   /etc/mailman3/mailman.cfg points to /var/lib/mailman/bin ... both
>   directories are wrong from my POV, it should probably be
>   /usr/lib/mailman3 or something like that

During my discussions with Barry Warsaw, we agreed that except the mail
binary, the others shouldn't be in /usr/bin as their name is "too generic".

This error is mailman3.cfg was in the same stack of patches that should have
been committed before my email (with -C option)

> - Fixing this up leads to
> 
>   root at 4ca9477a166c:~# /usr/bin/mailman -C /etc/mailman3/mailman.cfg start
>   Starting Mailman's master runner
>   Traceback (most recent call last):
>     File "/var/lib/mailman3/bin/master", line 9, in <module>
>       load_entry_point('mailman==3.0.0', 'console_scripts', 'master')()
>     File "/usr/lib/python3/dist-packages/mailman/bin/master.py", line 536,
>   in main
>       with open(config.PID_FILE, 'w') as fp:
>   FileNotFoundError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory:
>   '/run/mailman3/master.pid'
> 
>   because the directory does not exist. Since you are shipping a systemd
>   unit only you should probably ship a .tmpfile as well.

During my initial test, I tried to run mailman3 standalone, and the
directory stayed, so I never met the error. Fix committed. Thanks.

> I now have a running daemon. I haven't done anything with Mailman3 so
> far, so I need to read up on that first.

Thanks for reviewing, sorry for the loss of time I induced.

-- 
PEB

From adityadivekar03 at gmail.com  Tue Feb 23 10:44:14 2016
From: adityadivekar03 at gmail.com (Aditya Divekar)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2016 21:14:14 +0530
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Accessing the members of a list
Message-ID: <CAAQRvQJqVtfNOwjf7SRDSu_94GDwgdnEUonYOWAKuUhU1QEMtQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

This is in regard to postorius. Is there a way by which I can access all
the members of a list using its 'list_id' in the list.py file with/without
creating a new client?

The approach I tried was creating a client in the list.py file for this
purpose and calling on the 'members()' function from the Client class
defined in client.py. The doubt I had here is that the members() function
uses the self parameter to decide which list is being referred to. For
this, I think I need to pass the exact url to the list I wish to search for
as a parameter while creating the client and then call on the members()
function on it. Here, how do I figure out the url for this purpose?

Thanks!

Aditya

From harshitbansal2015 at gmail.com  Tue Feb 23 12:40:52 2016
From: harshitbansal2015 at gmail.com (Harshit Bansal)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2016 23:10:52 +0530
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Accessing the members of a list
Message-ID: <CAGV4MTGZUjM29uif7+YR73yn9nLzb4eNDOJL5scxh4rfB7fF1A@mail.gmail.com>

> Hi,
>
> This is in regard to postorius. Is there a way by which I can access all
> the members of a list using its 'list_id' in the list.py file with/without
> creating a new client?
>
> The approach I tried was creating a client in the list.py file for this
> purpose and calling on the 'members()' function from the Client class
> defined in client.py. The doubt I had here is that the members() function
> uses the self parameter to decide which list is being referred to. For
> this, I think I need to pass the exact url to the list I wish to search for
> as a parameter while creating the client and then call on the members()
> function on it. Here, how do I figure out the url for this purpose?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Aditya
>
I think this approach can be used for getting all members without
creating a new client :
m_list = List.objects.get_or_404(fqdn_listname=list_id)
Then mlist.members can be used to access all the members of the mailing list.

If you want to use the client then the exact url of the list would be
lists/fqdn_listname.

Hope this helps.

Thanks and regards,
Harshit Bansal
HBTI, KANPUR

From adityadivekar03 at gmail.com  Wed Feb 24 08:39:27 2016
From: adityadivekar03 at gmail.com (Aditya Divekar)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2016 19:09:27 +0530
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Accessing the members of a list
In-Reply-To: <CAGV4MTGZUjM29uif7+YR73yn9nLzb4eNDOJL5scxh4rfB7fF1A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGV4MTGZUjM29uif7+YR73yn9nLzb4eNDOJL5scxh4rfB7fF1A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAAQRvQ+QWNq2wJmJ3Z-30k=_GPYeaXMs2D4Mn9A9EomSz5Aa7g@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks for the help Harshit!
But I realized that I framed my question improperly. I used the above
command before too, but it raises an error -

CannotOverwriteExistingCassetteException: No match for the request
(<Request (POST)
http://localhost:9001/3.0/members/find?subscriber=%2Aexample.com%2A&list_id=foo.example.com&role=member>)
was found. Can't overwrite existing cassette
('/home/hp/postorius_aditya/src/postorius/tests/fixtures/vcr_cassettes/ListMembersTest.test_search_members_1.yaml')
in your current record mode ('once').

Is this error because the request is not present in test cases or is it
some other error?
Also, if it is a test case problem, can anyone suggest me how to change the
test case (or where I could read about how to go about it) to make the
build pass?

Thanks,
Aditya.

From harshitbansal2015 at gmail.com  Wed Feb 24 09:33:30 2016
From: harshitbansal2015 at gmail.com (Harshit Bansal)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2016 20:03:30 +0530
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Accessing the members of a list
In-Reply-To: <CAAQRvQ+QWNq2wJmJ3Z-30k=_GPYeaXMs2D4Mn9A9EomSz5Aa7g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGV4MTGZUjM29uif7+YR73yn9nLzb4eNDOJL5scxh4rfB7fF1A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAAQRvQ+QWNq2wJmJ3Z-30k=_GPYeaXMs2D4Mn9A9EomSz5Aa7g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAGV4MTEEoWwsiraZPnf5LGi9acvCojoMpZuR3bQq7OvU1AKm2A@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Aditya,
Since a lot of Postorius code involves calls to Mailman's REST API and
running these tests against a real instance would be painfully slow,
hence ''vcrpy'' cassettess are used. These files contain pre-recorded
HTTP responses. If you write new tests, it's advisable to add a
separate fixture file for each test case. Considering your test, the
fixture file that your test uses contains the following pre-recorded
responses for the following POST requests :
request:
    body: mail_host=example.com
    headers:
      accept-encoding: ['gzip, deflate']
      !!python/unicode content-type: [!!python/unicode
application/x-www-form-urlencoded]
    method: !!python/unicode POST
    uri: http://localhost:9001/3.0/domains

request:
    body: fqdn_listname=foo%40example.com
    headers:
      accept-encoding: ['gzip, deflate']
      !!python/unicode content-type: [!!python/unicode
application/x-www-form-urlencoded]
    method: !!python/unicode POST
    uri: http://localhost:9001/3.0/lists

request:
    body: display_name=None&list_id=foo.example.com&pre_approved=True&pre_confirmed=True&pre_verified=True&subscriber=member-1%40example.com
    headers:
      accept-encoding: ['gzip, deflate']
      !!python/unicode content-type: [!!python/unicode
application/x-www-form-urlencoded]
    method: !!python/unicode POST
    uri: http://localhost:9001/3.0/members

request:
    body: display_name=None&list_id=foo.example.com&pre_approved=True&pre_confirmed=True&pre_verified=True&subscriber=member-2%40example.com
    headers:
      accept-encoding: ['gzip, deflate']
      !!python/unicode content-type: [!!python/unicode
application/x-www-form-urlencoded]
    method: !!python/unicode POST
    uri: http://localhost:9001/3.0/members

So only these request formats can be used in your test. If you want to
use other request formats then probably you have to record them in the
following fixture file:
src/postorius/tests/fixtures/vcr_cassettes/ListMembersTest.test_search_members_1.yaml

You can also refer to ''vcrpy'' documentation for more information.

Hope this helps.

Regards,
Harshit Bansal.

On 2/24/16, Aditya Divekar <adityadivekar03 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Thanks for the help Harshit!
> But I realized that I framed my question improperly. I used the above
> command before too, but it raises an error -
>
> CannotOverwriteExistingCassetteException: No match for the request
> (<Request (POST)
> http://localhost:9001/3.0/members/find?subscriber=%2Aexample.com%2A&list_id=foo.example.com&role=member>)
> was found. Can't overwrite existing cassette
> ('/home/hp/postorius_aditya/src/postorius/tests/fixtures/vcr_cassettes/ListMembersTest.test_search_members_1.yaml')
> in your current record mode ('once').
>
> Is this error because the request is not present in test cases or is it
> some other error?
> Also, if it is a test case problem, can anyone suggest me how to change the
> test case (or where I could read about how to go about it) to make the
> build pass?
>
> Thanks,
> Aditya.
>

From simon.hanna at serve-me.info  Wed Feb 24 10:48:42 2016
From: simon.hanna at serve-me.info (Simon Hanna)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2016 16:48:42 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Accessing the members of a list
In-Reply-To: <CAAQRvQ+QWNq2wJmJ3Z-30k=_GPYeaXMs2D4Mn9A9EomSz5Aa7g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGV4MTGZUjM29uif7+YR73yn9nLzb4eNDOJL5scxh4rfB7fF1A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAAQRvQ+QWNq2wJmJ3Z-30k=_GPYeaXMs2D4Mn9A9EomSz5Aa7g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <56CDD0DA.3060206@serve-me.info>

I just realized I didn't reply to the list but to the OP only. Here is my reply:

> CannotOverwriteExistingCassetteException: No match for the request
> (<Request (POST)
> http://localhost:9001/3.0/members/find?subscriber=%2Aexample.com%2A&list_id=foo.example.com&role=member>)
> was found. Can't overwrite existing cassette
> ('/home/hp/postorius_aditya/src/postorius/tests/fixtures/vcr_cassettes/ListMembersTest.test_search_members_1.yaml')
> in your current record mode ('once').
> 
> Is this error because the request is not present in test cases or is it
> some other error?
> Also, if it is a test case problem, can anyone suggest me how to change the
> test case (or where I could read about how to go about it) to make the
> build pass?

It's because the request is not recorded in the mentioned yaml file.
In order to record tapes, you will have to have a running mailman instance. The config file for
mailman can be found in the testing directory of postorius.
1. Make sure you have an empty mailman database (just remove everything that mailman creates ^^).
2. You will want to delete the yaml file you want to overwrite.
3. run `tox -e record` in postorius.

Repeat steps 1-3 as long as you get errors (you will have to fix the errors of course)

4. confirm that everything works by running `tox`

commit the yaml file you wanted to overwrite.

Sidenote: You might not have to rerecord the yaml file over and over if you are only fixing things
that don't result in new/changed requests.



From trealtv at yandex.com  Thu Feb 25 14:36:49 2016
From: trealtv at yandex.com (treal tv)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2016 14:36:49 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Mailman 3 custom footer
Message-ID: <56CF57D1.4040203@yandex.com>

I saw an older message where someone was asking how to customize the 
footer for mailman 3.

https://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2015-October/079965.html

It didn't seem to ever be answered, and I couldn't find any follow up in 
this list's archives.

This is a problem I'm struggling with now - I also found the 
footer-generic.txt from the source where the exact footer I'm seeing is 
coming from.

https://gitlab.com/mailman/mailman/blob/master/src/mailman/templates/en/footer-generic.txt

I'm looking to modify the contents of this footer so it says something 
slightly different. However, I can't find anywhere with Mailman 3 to 
change anything about the footer.

Any help is greatly appreciated! Thank you!

From adityadivekar03 at gmail.com  Fri Feb 26 01:21:38 2016
From: adityadivekar03 at gmail.com (Aditya Divekar)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2016 11:51:38 +0530
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Accessing the members of a list
In-Reply-To: <56CDD0DA.3060206@serve-me.info>
References: <CAGV4MTGZUjM29uif7+YR73yn9nLzb4eNDOJL5scxh4rfB7fF1A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAAQRvQ+QWNq2wJmJ3Z-30k=_GPYeaXMs2D4Mn9A9EomSz5Aa7g@mail.gmail.com>
 <56CDD0DA.3060206@serve-me.info>
Message-ID: <CAAQRvQ+-GPR=Wp7ahQw_jftCU=xd0fhRzd4WdrQjyYnpAfAqtw@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks again Harshit!

And, @Simon, thanks for the input. Also I apologize for dragging the issue
#88 <https://gitlab.com/mailman/postorius/issues/88> for so long. I am
currently facing problems with my system python3 due to some bad changes.
As a result I'm not able to run mailman3.0 now. I planned on running it and
recording a new request in the vcrpy cassette for the fix, but currently
I'm not able to. I will look into getting the python3 fixed at the
earliest, and close the issue for once.
Thanks for the patience!
Aditya

From barry at list.org  Fri Feb 26 19:24:05 2016
From: barry at list.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2016 19:24:05 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Mailman 3 custom footer
In-Reply-To: <56CF57D1.4040203@yandex.com>
References: <56CF57D1.4040203@yandex.com>
Message-ID: <20160226192405.465401bb@subdivisions.wooz.org>

On Feb 25, 2016, at 02:36 PM, treal tv wrote:

>I'm looking to modify the contents of this footer so it says something
>slightly different. However, I can't find anywhere with Mailman 3 to change
>anything about the footer.

I'll describe what you have today, but it's likely the exact details will
change at some point (maybe for 3.1 if my ideas pan out).  Still, how it works
today still contains the basic scheme for how I want it to work in the future.

The thing to remember is that while Core needs to send out emails with various
templates, it can't make any assumptions about what is on the web front-end,
so text like footers can't contain URLs and such by default.  Yes, this is a
bit of a mess right now because you'll still see substitutions like
$listinfo_url in some templates, even though these can't be correctly filled
in.

So there are two parts to this answer.  The first is finding the template to
use for the footer[*], and then filling in all the placeholders.

You've found the footer-generic.txt template, but how is this used?  Every
mailing list currently has an attribute called `footer_uri`, and this is set
in the list style.  I've previously described how style works so I won't go
down that detour here.  Suffice to say that the default style sets footer_uri
to `mailman:///$listname/$language/footer-generic.txt`.

Notice two things about this uri.

 * It has a `mailman:` scheme.
 * It has some $-placeholders.

What happens is that in the decorate handler, when the footer is put on the
outgoing message, we first substitute some useful information into the uri's
placeholders.  The values should be obvious: $listname gets the fqdn_listname
value and $language gets the preferred_language.code.  So for mailing list
alpha at example.com using Italian as its preferred language, the footer_uri
gets transformed into mailman:///alpha at example.com/it/footer-generic.txt.

Now we start to look that up.  Of course, if the scheme were http: or https:,
we'd just issue a request to that url and use whatever we find.  The intent is
that in Postorius or some other CMS or web resource repository, you'd be able
to define a custom template appropriate for your site.  You'd set the list's
footer_uri to something like https://my.cms.example.com/footer.txt and since
there are no placeholders, Mailman just grabs the text at that url and viola!
you've got your footer.  Supporting the placeholders allows your CMS to
provide different footers for different lists, and of course you'll want to
provide different footers for different human languages.

But okay, now we have mailman:///alpha at example.com/it/footer-generic.txt and
we have to look that up.  What are the rules for mailman: urls?

mailman: urls are shorthand for internal resources, homed in the source code
directory on the file system.  The search order is well documented, but not
easily discovered so here's the documentation:

https://gitlab.com/mailman/mailman/blob/master/src/mailman/utilities/i18n.py#L53

You can see how there's a search hierarchy, such that if you only want a
single template for all your lists on the site, you can define it once on the
file system, and Mailman will just find that one.  Similarly, you could have a
template that applies to all lists within the same domain, or have list
specific templates.  So, bottom line is, drop a file in the template_dir
defined in your mailman.cfg and set your list's footer_uri to a mailman: url
that points here, and Bob's your uncle.

Now the second step alluded to earlier.  Once you've located the template, the
template *itself* can have substitution placeholders, and for message headers
and footers (i.e. message decorations) they get filled in here:

https://gitlab.com/mailman/mailman/blob/master/src/mailman/handlers/decorate.py#L228

So you can see how your template can contain information about the mailing
list's name, hostname, description, etc.  `extradict` comes into play (or at
least *should* <wink>) when messages are personalized, such that some
information specific to the user could be added, e.g. their unsubscribe link.
This may not be fully plumbed out right now though.

Briefly then, how will this be different in the future?  I'm still working out
the design, but roughly, there will be a new ITemplateManager that holds
mappings between template names, a context (e.g. mailing list, domain, or
site), URIs, and "resource dictionaries".  This ITemplateManager would be a
top-level REST resource so Postorius and other REST clients could directly
manipulate these mappings.

Then you'd be able to say, through REST, "set the footer template, for all
mailing lists on example.com, to https://my.cms.example.com/footer.txt`.  When
needed, the core delivery engine would then ask the template manager for the
contents of the footer template for a given mailing list, and it would get
back a bunch of text (appropriately cached, with various cache management
knobs for efficiency).  Mailman would then fill in substitution variables in
this footer template as before, but it would *also* do a query for the
"resource dictionary" which would be e.g. a JSON mapping keys to values.  This
would then let your CMS also define additional bits of data to shove into the
footer when it gets sent out.

Cheers,
-Barry

[*] and when you read "footer", think "just about any template eventually".

From stephen at xemacs.org  Sat Feb 27 00:02:49 2016
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2016 14:02:49 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Regexp filtering
In-Reply-To: <56D0A6DC.2000903@msapiro.net>
References: <BLUPR01MB12364195988F44AC1C93545AADA70@BLUPR01MB1236.prod.exchangelabs.com>
 <22224.34168.628954.746288@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
 <56D0A6DC.2000903@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <22225.11769.251788.350761@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

On Mailman-Users, Mark Sapiro writes:

 > Further, in the ban_list (and many other places in Mailman) if an
 > address is intended to be a regular expression pattern, it must begin
 > with '^', so you really want
 > 
 > ^.*@domain\.com$
 > 
 > to match any_address at domain.com.

I hope we haven't propagated this rather user-unfriendly interface
(the convention of accepting both regexps and literals, distinguishing
by "^" in column 0) to Mailman 3.  Even as a Python programmer, I find
Mark's post somewhat confusing: I would design filters using
re.search, so that the above would actually be equivalent as a Python
regular expression to r"@domain\.com$".  OTOH, if the implementation
uses re.match, the "^" is redundant, so I have a "say what?!" event.

If we have, I propose changing it to

    Ban these addresses, one entry per line: [                ]
    [ ] Entries are regular expressions.

or something like that.  We also ought to have a "Python features for
Mailman administrators" section of the FAQ, starting with "what is a
regular expression", and giving examples of how to accomplish common
tasks like banning a whole domain with regular expressions.  Typical
regexp FAQs are hard for non-programmers (and even beginning
programmers) to grasp.

I don't have time to actually work on these now, but if there's uptake
on the suggestion ("let's think about it" at +0 or above :-) I'll file
issues.


From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Feb 27 00:20:01 2016
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2016 21:20:01 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Regexp filtering
In-Reply-To: <22225.11769.251788.350761@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <BLUPR01MB12364195988F44AC1C93545AADA70@BLUPR01MB1236.prod.exchangelabs.com>
 <22224.34168.628954.746288@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
 <56D0A6DC.2000903@msapiro.net>
 <22225.11769.251788.350761@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <56D13201.7090608@msapiro.net>

On 02/26/2016 09:02 PM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
> On Mailman-Users, Mark Sapiro writes:
> 
>  > Further, in the ban_list (and many other places in Mailman) if an
>  > address is intended to be a regular expression pattern, it must begin
>  > with '^', so you really want
>  > 
>  > ^.*@domain\.com$
>  > 
>  > to match any_address at domain.com.
> 
> I hope we haven't propagated this rather user-unfriendly interface
> (the convention of accepting both regexps and literals, distinguishing
> by "^" in column 0) to Mailman 3.  Even as a Python programmer, I find
> Mark's post somewhat confusing: I would design filters using
> re.search, so that the above would actually be equivalent as a Python
> regular expression to r"@domain\.com$".  OTOH, if the implementation
> uses re.match, the "^" is redundant, so I have a "say what?!" event.


I agree it's confusing, and I've been caught in this confusion myself
and neglected to put the leading ^ in what I clearly intended to be a
regexp, but the convention goes back a long way in MM2.


> If we have, I propose changing it to
> 
>     Ban these addresses, one entry per line: [                ]
>     [ ] Entries are regular expressions.
> 
> or something like that.  We also ought to have a "Python features for
> Mailman administrators" section of the FAQ, starting with "what is a
> regular expression", and giving examples of how to accomplish common
> tasks like banning a whole domain with regular expressions.  Typical
> regexp FAQs are hard for non-programmers (and even beginning
> programmers) to grasp.
> 
> I don't have time to actually work on these now, but if there's uptake
> on the suggestion ("let's think about it" at +0 or above :-) I'll file
> issues.


I'm not sure what the MM3 story is at this point, but +1 for Steve's idea.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From jarifibrahim at gmail.com  Sat Feb 27 00:36:51 2016
From: jarifibrahim at gmail.com (Ibrahim Jarif)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2016 11:06:51 +0530
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] GSoC'16 Contribution
Message-ID: <CAPJiOVYk0Qo8S_g1Uy2eh_UHKd+ESaXkBjMDZHHy3pBjqSM=Yw@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Developer,

I'm Ibrahim Jarif. I'm studying computer engineering (3rd year). I wish to
apply for GSoC'16 with the mailman Project.
I have some experience with python programming. I am not an expert in
programming or software development but I wish to learn and contribute to
the project.
I'm willing to put in as much effort as it takes. You can find some of my
work here <http://www.github.com/jarifibrahim>.

I'd really appreciate if someone could guide me and get me started with the
project.

Thank you

From stephen at xemacs.org  Sat Feb 27 04:21:07 2016
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2016 18:21:07 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Developers]  GSoC'16 Contribution
In-Reply-To: <CAPJiOVYk0Qo8S_g1Uy2eh_UHKd+ESaXkBjMDZHHy3pBjqSM=Yw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAPJiOVYk0Qo8S_g1Uy2eh_UHKd+ESaXkBjMDZHHy3pBjqSM=Yw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <22225.27267.196943.770655@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Ibrahim Jarif writes:

 > I'm Ibrahim Jarif. I'm studying computer engineering (3rd year). I wish to
 > apply for GSoC'16 with the mailman Project.

Welcome!

 > I'd really appreciate if someone could guide me and get me started with the
 > project.

The place to start is by bookmarking the GSoC 2016 page at

    http://wiki.list.org/DEV/Google%20Summer%20of%20Code%202016

and the DEV page itself at

    http://wiki.list.org/DEV/

If you haven't already checked Google's rules, do so at the "new GSoC
page" at

    https://summerofcode.withgoogle.com/

(note that it's not "google-melange.com" any more!)

If you have a "Mailman itch" you need to "scratch", please let us know
about it.  It might make a good GSoC project.  If not, check the ideas
page (the first link above).

Finally, once you've got yourself a bit oriented, you should get
yourself a gitlab account[1], and check the issues at

    https://gitlab.com/groups/mailman/issues

for something easy (like a doc fix), and start working toward a merge
request.  We want you to have at least one under your belt before
starting the summer.  (It doesn't have to be approved and merged for
you to qualify -- it's just proof that you're ready to deal with the
mechanics of contributing to Mailman.)

Footnotes: 
[1]  Not github, nothing against github personally but since we're a
GNU project, our Fearless Leader gets annoyed by RMS if we use
non-free resources, and that is pretty fearsomely annoying. :-)


From stephen at xemacs.org  Sat Feb 27 04:21:33 2016
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2016 18:21:33 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] [Mailman-Users] Help with installation
In-Reply-To: <CAPJiOVb1jLzxTsh-bhNp4gu3-svxfCB0d3Dg+N9mG=8eu4+6ug@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAPJiOVaEcvd2aKBzxi=cYknBSWygJC22EF9X3H8tBycQf-NMjw@mail.gmail.com>
 <22224.1398.812724.541209@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
 <CAPJiOVb1jLzxTsh-bhNp4gu3-svxfCB0d3Dg+N9mG=8eu4+6ug@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <22225.27293.866076.34357@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

First, please make sure you direct replies to the list.  If you don't
understand why that is appropriate, read Eric Raymond's "How to Ask
Questions the Smart Way" (www.catb.org/esr/faqs/smart-questions.html).

Redirecting to list is not automatic because we occasionally handle
sensitive topics in private mail, and it would be a Bad Thing if a
list administrator posted personal or system details to a public list
by accident.

Ibrahim Jarif writes:
 > I guess the content filter removed the attachment.
 > 
 > I ran ``django-admin migrate --pythonpath hyperkitty_standalone --settings
 > settings ``. I get the following error

[traceback details omitted]
 > ImportError: No module named settings

Is there a hyperkitty_standalone directory in the current directory
when you run that command?  Is there a settings.py file in that
directory?  Is the venv active when you run it?

I would guess that you are running the command from the wrong current
directory.




From stephen at xemacs.org  Sat Feb 27 04:21:51 2016
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2016 18:21:51 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Regexp filtering
In-Reply-To: <56D13201.7090608@msapiro.net>
References: <BLUPR01MB12364195988F44AC1C93545AADA70@BLUPR01MB1236.prod.exchangelabs.com>
 <22224.34168.628954.746288@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
 <56D0A6DC.2000903@msapiro.net>
 <22225.11769.251788.350761@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
 <56D13201.7090608@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <22225.27311.762558.316013@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Mark Sapiro writes:

 > I agree it's confusing, and I've been caught in this confusion myself
 > and neglected to put the leading ^ in what I clearly intended to be a
 > regexp, but the convention goes back a long way in MM2.

Oh, of course I'm -1 on changing "regexps start with '^'" convention
in Mailman 2 myself!

From jarifibrahim at gmail.com  Sat Feb 27 06:57:35 2016
From: jarifibrahim at gmail.com (Ibrahim Jarif)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2016 17:27:35 +0530
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] [Mailman-Users] Help with installation
In-Reply-To: <22225.27293.866076.34357@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <CAPJiOVaEcvd2aKBzxi=cYknBSWygJC22EF9X3H8tBycQf-NMjw@mail.gmail.com>
 <22224.1398.812724.541209@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
 <CAPJiOVb1jLzxTsh-bhNp4gu3-svxfCB0d3Dg+N9mG=8eu4+6ug@mail.gmail.com>
 <22225.27293.866076.34357@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <CAPJiOVZKGi6B5JjTqVp0LY_Y9no6HJQwZLyWnYrzbFuTXRofUQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

Thank you for the reply. I solved the issue. The documentation at
https://hyperkitty.readthedocs.org/en/latest/development.html was written
for older version of Django (I guess Django-1.6). A lot has changed in
Django-1.9. The latest version has different commands than those mentioned
on the page.

I've created an issue about the documentation here
<https://gitlab.com/mailman/postorius/issues/103>

Thanks

-Ibrahim

On Sat, Feb 27, 2016 at 2:51 PM, Stephen J. Turnbull <stephen at xemacs.org>
wrote:

> First, please make sure you direct replies to the list.  If you don't
> understand why that is appropriate, read Eric Raymond's "How to Ask
> Questions the Smart Way" (www.catb.org/esr/faqs/smart-questions.html).
>
> Redirecting to list is not automatic because we occasionally handle
> sensitive topics in private mail, and it would be a Bad Thing if a
> list administrator posted personal or system details to a public list
> by accident.
>
> Ibrahim Jarif writes:
>  > I guess the content filter removed the attachment.
>  >
>  > I ran ``django-admin migrate --pythonpath hyperkitty_standalone
> --settings
>  > settings ``. I get the following error
>
> [traceback details omitted]
>  > ImportError: No module named settings
>
> Is there a hyperkitty_standalone directory in the current directory
> when you run that command?  Is there a settings.py file in that
> directory?  Is the venv active when you run it?
>
> I would guess that you are running the command from the wrong current
> directory.
>
>
>
>

From stephen at xemacs.org  Sat Feb 27 10:08:54 2016
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2016 00:08:54 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] [Mailman-Users] Help with installation
In-Reply-To: <CAPJiOVZKGi6B5JjTqVp0LY_Y9no6HJQwZLyWnYrzbFuTXRofUQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAPJiOVaEcvd2aKBzxi=cYknBSWygJC22EF9X3H8tBycQf-NMjw@mail.gmail.com>
 <22224.1398.812724.541209@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
 <CAPJiOVb1jLzxTsh-bhNp4gu3-svxfCB0d3Dg+N9mG=8eu4+6ug@mail.gmail.com>
 <22225.27293.866076.34357@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
 <CAPJiOVZKGi6B5JjTqVp0LY_Y9no6HJQwZLyWnYrzbFuTXRofUQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <22225.48134.21179.757889@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Ibrahim Jarif writes:

 > https://hyperkitty.readthedocs.org/en/latest/development.html was
 > written for older version of Django (I guess Django-1.6).

I first used HK with Django 1.5 I think.  HK docs potentially go way
back in Django history, and I know we've had backward compatibility
issues with Django (to be fair, you expect those when going from x.y
to x.(y+3) or so).  Beta testers, beware!  Those =version requirements
do matter with Django.

 > A lot has changed in Django-1.9. The latest version has different
 > commands than those mentioned on the page.
 > 
 > I've created an issue about the documentation here
 > <https://gitlab.com/mailman/postorius/issues/103>

Elsewhere I mentioned fixing an easy issue to qualify for GSoC.  This
sounds like a perfect one to me!


From jarifibrahim at gmail.com  Sat Feb 27 11:00:48 2016
From: jarifibrahim at gmail.com (Ibrahim Jarif)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2016 21:30:48 +0530
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] [Mailman-Users] Help with installation
In-Reply-To: <22225.48134.21179.757889@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <CAPJiOVaEcvd2aKBzxi=cYknBSWygJC22EF9X3H8tBycQf-NMjw@mail.gmail.com>
 <22224.1398.812724.541209@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
 <CAPJiOVb1jLzxTsh-bhNp4gu3-svxfCB0d3Dg+N9mG=8eu4+6ug@mail.gmail.com>
 <22225.27293.866076.34357@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
 <CAPJiOVZKGi6B5JjTqVp0LY_Y9no6HJQwZLyWnYrzbFuTXRofUQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <22225.48134.21179.757889@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <CAPJiOVaxEOKbvJv2Q1zMDeMjWXQf=e+TETD2UH6WRgCLm_vVsw@mail.gmail.com>

Yes. I can surely do that. Could you tell me how do I edit the pages? I
can't find the wiki.list.org source code.

On Sat, Feb 27, 2016 at 8:38 PM, Stephen J. Turnbull <stephen at xemacs.org>
wrote:

> Ibrahim Jarif writes:
>
>  > https://hyperkitty.readthedocs.org/en/latest/development.html was
>  > written for older version of Django (I guess Django-1.6).
>
> I first used HK with Django 1.5 I think.  HK docs potentially go way
> back in Django history, and I know we've had backward compatibility
> issues with Django (to be fair, you expect those when going from x.y
> to x.(y+3) or so).  Beta testers, beware!  Those =version requirements
> do matter with Django.
>
>  > A lot has changed in Django-1.9. The latest version has different
>  > commands than those mentioned on the page.
>  >
>  > I've created an issue about the documentation here
>  > <https://gitlab.com/mailman/postorius/issues/103>
>
> Elsewhere I mentioned fixing an easy issue to qualify for GSoC.  This
> sounds like a perfect one to me!
>
>

From mark at msapiro.net  Sat Feb 27 13:28:47 2016
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2016 10:28:47 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Help with installation
In-Reply-To: <CAPJiOVaxEOKbvJv2Q1zMDeMjWXQf=e+TETD2UH6WRgCLm_vVsw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAPJiOVaEcvd2aKBzxi=cYknBSWygJC22EF9X3H8tBycQf-NMjw@mail.gmail.com>
 <22224.1398.812724.541209@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
 <CAPJiOVb1jLzxTsh-bhNp4gu3-svxfCB0d3Dg+N9mG=8eu4+6ug@mail.gmail.com>
 <22225.27293.866076.34357@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
 <CAPJiOVZKGi6B5JjTqVp0LY_Y9no6HJQwZLyWnYrzbFuTXRofUQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <22225.48134.21179.757889@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
 <CAPJiOVaxEOKbvJv2Q1zMDeMjWXQf=e+TETD2UH6WRgCLm_vVsw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <56D1EADF.1030605@msapiro.net>

On 02/27/2016 08:00 AM, Ibrahim Jarif wrote:
> Yes. I can surely do that. Could you tell me how do I edit the pages? I
> can't find the wiki.list.org source code.


Pages at wiki.list.org are edited via the wiki itself. There is an edit
action near the top of the left sidebar. There is extensive help - start
with HelpContents (also linked from the left sidebar.

Step 1 is to read and follow the first paragraph at
<http://wiki.list.org/FrontPage>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From lakshmanan.meiyappan at gmail.com  Sat Feb 27 13:52:11 2016
From: lakshmanan.meiyappan at gmail.com (Lakshmanan Meiyappan)
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2016 00:22:11 +0530
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] GSoC 2016 Contribution
Message-ID: <CAL6fCAS2Fxvc6S9niA18iYOGxO0L1Vm4Zf+oa6T2cXru2FmLOQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi, I'm Lakshmanan, sophomore in Computer science and engineering. I love
programming, and I love python and I would like to contribute to mailman
project in this GSoC 16. I would be grateful if someone could guide me, as
I'm a beginner. I'm hard worker and I can invest most of my time into this.
It would be helpful if someone could help me in the process.

Thank you,

Lakshmanan meiyappan

From raj.abhilash1 at gmail.com  Sat Feb 27 14:05:29 2016
From: raj.abhilash1 at gmail.com (Abhilash Raj)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2016 11:05:29 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] GSoC 2016 Contribution
In-Reply-To: <CAL6fCAS2Fxvc6S9niA18iYOGxO0L1Vm4Zf+oa6T2cXru2FmLOQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAL6fCAS2Fxvc6S9niA18iYOGxO0L1Vm4Zf+oa6T2cXru2FmLOQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <56D1F379.1040104@gmail.com>

Hi Lakshman,

On 02/27/2016 10:52 AM, Lakshmanan Meiyappan wrote:
> Hi, I'm Lakshmanan, sophomore in Computer science and engineering. I love
> programming, and I love python and I would like to contribute to mailman
> project in this GSoC 16. I would be grateful if someone could guide me, as
> I'm a beginner. I'm hard worker and I can invest most of my time into this.
> It would be helpful if someone could help me in the process.

Welcome!

Stephen very recently answered this question on the list that you can
find here[1] in archives. You will also find link to the GSoC 2016 wiki
page in there where all the resources and getting started guides are linked.


[1]:
http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-developers%40python.org/msg16122.html

> Thank you,
> 
> Lakshmanan meiyappan
> _______________________________________________
> Mailman-Developers mailing list
> Mailman-Developers at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers
> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-developers%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-developers/raj.abhilash1%40gmail.com
> 
> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
> 

-- 
thanks,
Abhilash Raj

From jonax at openmailbox.org  Sat Feb 27 13:35:01 2016
From: jonax at openmailbox.org (Jonas)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2016 19:35:01 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] GSoC Project: pgp plugin
Message-ID: <56D1EC55.60909@openmailbox.org>

Hello Mailman developers,

I was planning to write a pgp-encryption plugin for Mailman 3 that
manages one keypair per list and pubkeys of the subscribers.
I'm considering to do it as my first-time Google Summer of Code project.

I have read the GSoC 2016 rules and the Mailman wiki GSoC 2016 pages.
I will try to work myself more into the mailman-core sources the next
few days and try to make an improvement (eg bugfix).

About me:
I have been studying computer science in germany for two and a half
years. I have sent patches to some libre, mainly C and C++, projects. I
have only minor experience in Python but I'm used to learning by reading
documentation and sources.
Feel free to mail me if you have questions.

The Project Idea:
Encrypted malinglists have been been a much-requested feature in mailman
2 and I would like to run some encrypted mailinglists myself.
There is no stable pgp-aware mailserver at this time but there has been
an unstable patch for mailman 2.1.5[1] and some other unstable encrypted
list servers [2][3]). This Project could also help to evaluate the
Mailman 3 plugin system.

Some features could be:
 1. Automatic pubkey collection from inbound mail
 2. Outbound mail encryption and signature validation
 3. Automatic keypair generation for pgp-aware lists
 4. Inbound mail decryption and outbound mail signature
 5. A mailinterface for organizing the encrypted lists, subscribers
    public keys and trust levels
 6. A webinterface
 7. PGP Information in the messages (e.g. was the incoming mail signed
    by a trusted subscriber?)
 8. Optionally forced encryption (such a list never sends mail to an
    adress to which it can't encrypt with a pubkey that has a certain
    level of trust and/or won't accept inbound mail in plaintext)
 9. Optionally forced signature (inbound mail to the list has to be
    signed with a key that has a certain level of trust in order to be
    published)
10. pgp-aware command system. (eg optionally only accept admin mail
    commands from signature-verified mail admins)

Features 1.-5. are essential.

Thoughts on Implementation:
pygpgme could be used for encryption which might easily enable S/MIME as
well. Keys could be stored in the filesystem or in databases using
SQLAlchemy. The encryption step could be implemented as a pipeline.


Encrypted lists in mailman would be great, I think I can implement the
plugin myself but I will need help to ensure the reliability and
security of the plugin.

What are your thoughts on pgp in Mailman 3?

Is this a suitable Project for the Google Summer of Code 2016?
Would anyone be interested in becoming my mentor for this project?


Thank you,
Jonas


[1]: https://non-gnu.uvt.nl/mailman-pgp-smime/
[2]: http://schleuder2.nadir.org/
[3]: http://schleuder2.nadir.org/documentation/v2.2/faq.html#index2h3

From raj.abhilash1 at gmail.com  Sat Feb 27 22:48:36 2016
From: raj.abhilash1 at gmail.com (Abhilash Raj)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2016 19:48:36 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] GSoC Project: pgp plugin
In-Reply-To: <56D1EC55.60909@openmailbox.org>
References: <56D1EC55.60909@openmailbox.org>
Message-ID: <CAF2AkX=7t57C_4MV098xzRqvHjcVTpoxefRjs0XwLa_Lf1TG5A@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Jonas,

On 27 February 2016 at 10:35, Jonas <jonax at openmailbox.org> wrote:

> Hello Mailman developers,
>
> I was planning to write a pgp-encryption plugin for Mailman 3 that
> manages one keypair per list and pubkeys of the subscribers.
> I'm considering to do it as my first-time Google Summer of Code project.
>

Welcome!


>
> I have read the GSoC 2016 rules and the Mailman wiki GSoC 2016 pages.
> I will try to work myself more into the mailman-core sources the next
> few days and try to make an improvement (eg bugfix).
>
> About me:
> I have been studying computer science in germany for two and a half
> years. I have sent patches to some libre, mainly C and C++, projects. I
> have only minor experience in Python but I'm used to learning by reading
> documentation and sources.
> Feel free to mail me if you have questions.
>
> The Project Idea:
> Encrypted malinglists have been been a much-requested feature in mailman
> 2 and I would like to run some encrypted mailinglists myself.
> There is no stable pgp-aware mailserver at this time but there has been
> an unstable patch for mailman 2.1.5[1] and some other unstable encrypted
> list servers [2][3]). This Project could also help to evaluate the
> Mailman 3 plugin system.
>
>
If you don't know, I worked on this project some time back in GSoC 2013.
The  current state of that project is not very good and probably needs a
*lot* of rebasing to do. I have been thinking about revisiting the project,
but haven't been able to. I don't mind another GSoC for the same project if
you can put up a proposal that would land the project in a better end state
than I did ;-).

Here is a link[1] to discussions that have already been done before on this
idea. Please read it carefully as there has been a pretty extensive
discussion on the security model and usability of such an implementation.

I have a few small questions doubts about your features below...


> Some features could be:
>  1. Automatic pubkey collection from inbound mail
>

What happens if I send a forged email with some user's email address as
FROM and use a fake key? Automatic public key collection isn't a very good
idea, you should be *very* careful about how you handle public keys.


>  2. Outbound mail encryption and signature validation
>

I would suggest you keep encryption as a part of extended goals in case of
GSoC. You'd be surprised how many students are not able to finish their
proposal in time. I don't say they did not do good work, just that they did
not make a good estimate of their time which is a good skill one should
have.


>  3. Automatic keypair generation for pgp-aware lists
>

Just to let you know, generating keys in virtual environments is not that
easy due to less available randomness as compared to PCs.


>  4. Inbound mail decryption and outbound mail signature
>

Can you elaborate on this? Shouldn't both be working differently? Encrypted
emails distributed as encrypted email and signed email distributed as
signed.


>  5. A mailinterface for organizing the encrypted lists, subscribers
>     public keys and trust levels


I would like to know more on how you plan to do this.


>  6. A webinterface
>

Can be integrated in Postorius (Mailman 3's default web UI)


>  7. PGP Information in the messages (e.g. was the incoming mail signed
>     by a trusted subscriber?)
>  8. Optionally forced encryption (such a list never sends mail to an
>     adress to which it can't encrypt with a pubkey that has a certain
>     level of trust and/or won't accept inbound mail in plaintext)
>  9. Optionally forced signature (inbound mail to the list has to be
>     signed with a key that has a certain level of trust in order to be
>     published)
> 10. pgp-aware command system. (eg optionally only accept admin mail
>     commands from signature-verified mail admins)
>
> Features 1.-5. are essential.
>
> Thoughts on Implementation:
> pygpgme could be used for encryption which might easily enable S/MIME as
> well. Keys could be stored in the filesystem or in databases using
> SQLAlchemy. The encryption step could be implemented as a pipeline.
>
>
> Encrypted lists in mailman would be great, I think I can implement the
> plugin myself but I will need help to ensure the reliability and
> security of the plugin.
>
> What are your thoughts on pgp in Mailman 3?
>
> Is this a suitable Project for the Google Summer of Code 2016?
>

I think so.


> Would anyone be interested in becoming my mentor for this project?
>

I can, depending on your application.


>
>
> Thank you,
> Jonas
>
>
> [1]: https://non-gnu.uvt.nl/mailman-pgp-smime/
> [2]: http://schleuder2.nadir.org/
> [3]: http://schleuder2.nadir.org/documentation/v2.2/faq.html#index2h3
> _______________________________________________
> Mailman-Developers mailing list
> Mailman-Developers at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers
> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
> Searchable Archives:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-developers%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe:
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-developers/raj.abhilash1%40gmail.com
>
> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
>



-- 
thanks,
Abhilash Raj

From stephen at xemacs.org  Sun Feb 28 04:30:33 2016
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2016 18:30:33 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Developers]  GSoC Project: pgp plugin
In-Reply-To: <56D1EC55.60909@openmailbox.org>
References: <56D1EC55.60909@openmailbox.org>
Message-ID: <22226.48697.41484.315892@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Jonas writes:

 > The Project Idea:
 > Encrypted malinglists have been been a much-requested feature in mailman
 > 2 and I would like to run some encrypted mailinglists myself.

I see Abhilash has already mentioned that he has done some work on
crypto (PGP) in Mailman 3.  I'll let him explain that.

I agree that this capability is very desirable for some use cases, so
I too welcome your application.

 > There is no stable pgp-aware mailserver

Please be careful about terminology.  In software, the suffix "-aware"
is pretty weak.  It could mean as little as "oh, this MIME body has a
signature, so we should not touch the MIME body" (eg, to add the usual
footer).  I'm not sure what would be appropriate terminology here (the
problem is that requirements are completely undefined, but in security
applications requirements must be precisely specified -- if somebody
uses your application inappropriately because you built something other
than what they need, "I'm sorry" doesn't begin to cover the damage).
"PGP-enabled" will do for now.

 > Some features could be:
 >  1. Automatic pubkey collection from inbound mail

Collect, maybe, but enable, no.  Mail as such cannot be trusted.  You
would basically need to do a triple handshake with the address to
confirm that that address indeed has access to that key and the key's
owner has the right to use that address.

 >  2. Outbound mail encryption and signature validation
 >  4. Inbound mail decryption and outbound mail signature

I don't understand these pairs.  Why encrypt mail *to* the server if
it's only going to be decrypted on the way out?  Why encrypt outgoing
posts if they might have been read in the clear before being received?
End-to-end encryption or signature or both seems to be the right thing.

 >  3. Automatic keypair generation for pgp-aware lists

Out of scope for one summer IMHO.  It's not obvious what the security
implications are.  Better to do key generation off-line.

 >  5. A mailinterface for organizing the encrypted lists, subscribers
 >     public keys and trust levels
 >  6. A webinterface

These too are out of scope.  Again, security implications are unclear.

 >  7. PGP Information in the messages (e.g. was the incoming mail signed
 >     by a trusted subscriber?)

What does "trusted" mean?

 >  8. Optionally forced encryption (such a list never sends mail to an
 >     adress to which it can't encrypt with a pubkey that has a certain
 >     level of trust and/or won't accept inbound mail in plaintext)
 >  9. Optionally forced signature (inbound mail to the list has to be
 >     signed with a key that has a certain level of trust in order to be
 >     published)

I don't understand how you propose to manage "trust levels".  And
"optional", if you want it optional, why are you bothering in the
first place?  That just makes the whole list unreliable as far as
security goes, because you never know what's going to happen.

 > 10. pgp-aware command system. (eg optionally only accept admin mail
 >     commands from signature-verified mail admins)

I don't understand this.  Mailman doesn't actually have that many
admin mail commands, and the signature requirement is easily bypassed
by doing the same operations from the web.

 > What are your thoughts on pgp in Mailman 3?

My thought is "what is your threat model"?

 > Is this a suitable Project for the Google Summer of Code 2016?

Yes, crypto support (both encryption and signatures) are a FAQ.
However, nobody has ever really provided specific requirements (ie,
the threat model to defend against), so it's very hard to decide what
to do, and documentation of whatever is done would be impossible.

 > Would anyone be interested in becoming my mentor for this project?

Subject to acceptance, I can be a co-mentor (I was Abhilash's mentor)
but probably cannot be primary (I have another proposed project where
I'm the obvious primary since I'm the only one who currently has the
relevant knowledge).

As far as acceptance goes, please see
http://wiki.list.org/DEV/Google_Summer_of_Code_2016 for information
about our requirements and procedures for student applications.

Regards,
Steve

From saurav24007 at gmail.com  Sun Feb 28 02:04:59 2016
From: saurav24007 at gmail.com (Saurav Kumar)
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2016 07:04:59 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Hi
Message-ID: <CABk3WVGob5DWA0-djhmAS57BP-ESCnoKir0sUmwScqvm-GFT8Q@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,
I'm Saurav Kumar, sophomore at Indian Institute of Technology (BHU)
Varanasi. I have deep interest in contributing to open source software
though i have no prior experience. I would love to have some one to guide
me, I'm am very comfortable using Pyhton3 and thus wish to contribute to
mailman-core. I have done a minor project on Flask and know a bit about
using Django.

Thank You
Saurav Kumar
-- 

Saurav Kumar
Sophomore
IIT BHU Varanasi

From raj.abhilash1 at gmail.com  Sun Feb 28 12:15:50 2016
From: raj.abhilash1 at gmail.com (Abhilash Raj)
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2016 09:15:50 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Hi
In-Reply-To: <CABk3WVGob5DWA0-djhmAS57BP-ESCnoKir0sUmwScqvm-GFT8Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABk3WVGob5DWA0-djhmAS57BP-ESCnoKir0sUmwScqvm-GFT8Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <56D32B46.9060901@gmail.com>

Hi Saurav,

On 02/27/2016 11:04 PM, Saurav Kumar wrote:
> Hi,
> I'm Saurav Kumar, sophomore at Indian Institute of Technology (BHU)
> Varanasi. I have deep interest in contributing to open source software
> though i have no prior experience. I would love to have some one to guide
> me, I'm am very comfortable using Pyhton3 and thus wish to contribute to
> mailman-core. I have done a minor project on Flask and know a bit about
> using Django.

Welcome!

Stephen very recently answered this question on the list that you can
find here[1] in archives. You will also find link to the GSoC 2016 wiki
page in there where all the resources and getting started guides are linked.

If you have any more questions regarding setting up the dev environment
or anything else, please don't hesitate to ask questions here or our IRC
channel #mailman at freenode.

[1]:
http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-developers%40python.org/msg16122.html

> 
> Thank You
> Saurav Kumar
> 

-- 
thanks,
Abhilash Raj

From saurav24007 at gmail.com  Sun Feb 28 16:42:21 2016
From: saurav24007 at gmail.com (Saurav Kumar)
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2016 21:42:21 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Need help in installing Mailman3
Message-ID: <CABk3WVH+kc23fxg=hU+qFgbYLSXr2bkiAV4Z_jYv5t9G6ujwbA@mail.gmail.com>

I? want to install Mailman in a custom directory, rather than using ?
?"user ?
?site-package" directory which is default when using install without any
extra parameter.
I'm not able to use the -d and install-dir parameter. Please guide me what
i'm doing wrong

Thanks
Saurav

From aahanbhatt.stkabir at gmail.com  Sun Feb 28 16:34:42 2016
From: aahanbhatt.stkabir at gmail.com (aahan bhatt)
Date: Mon, 29 Feb 2016 03:04:42 +0530
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Gitlab integration, GSOC'16
Message-ID: <CAHu4ZCoGCbyaK8TO1AWdiWK5MvygGa-etANzfxqMA-+yG-EcwA@mail.gmail.com>

Please explain about the gitlab integration in layman terms. I would like
to contribute to the project.

From mark at msapiro.net  Sun Feb 28 18:20:57 2016
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2016 15:20:57 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] [Mailman-Announce] Mailman 2.1.21 release -
 IMPORTANT update
Message-ID: <56D380D9.1070808@msapiro.net>

This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156)
--j6S4w6u3IBpq2Lhw4NRnht7WOGMvBbU6R
Content-Type: multipart/mixed;
 boundary="------------060207060504090803080503"

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
--------------060207060504090803080503
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I am pleased to announce the second release candidate for Mailman
2.1.21. This fixes a serious bug in the first release candidate in that
the few new list attributes weren't initialized for new lists. 2.1.21rc1
would work with lists migrated from older releases but lists created
under that release were unusable.

If you installed 2.1.21rc1, you should upgrade to 2.1.21rc2, and if you
created new lists under 2.1.21rc1, see the attached fix_list procedure.

Python 2.4 is the minimum supported, but Python 2.7 is strongly recommend=
ed.

This release includes a few new features and several bug fixes. See the
attached README for details.

Associated with these changes are six new and two modified strings in
the i18n message catalogs. I strongly encourage anyone with an interest
in translations of Mailman to get this release and help with updating
the translations for the final 2.1.21 release which is planned for the
end of February.

This candidate is expected to be quite stable. All the changes since
2.1.20 have been installed in the python.org Mailman as they were
developed and are running without known issues. The only reason why this
is a candidate and not a final release is to allow time for i18n updates
to be in the final.

Mailman is free software for managing email mailing lists and
e-newsletters. Mailman is used for all the python.org and
SourceForge.net mailing lists, as well as at hundreds of other sites.

For more information, please see our web site at one of:

http://www.list.org
http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman
http://mailman.sourceforge.net/
http://mirror.list.org/

Mailman 2.1.21rc2 can be downloaded from

https://launchpad.net/mailman/2.1/
http://ftp.gnu.org/gnu/mailman/
https://sourceforge.net/projects/mailman/

--=20
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


--------------060207060504090803080503
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8;
 name="README"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Disposition: attachment;
 filename="README"

2.1.21rc2 (05-Feb-2016)

  New Features

    - There is a new dmarc_none_moderation_action list setting and a
      DEFAULT_DMARC_NONE_MODERATION_ACTION mm_cfg.py setting to optionall=
y
      apply Munge From or Wrap Message actions to posts From: domains tha=
t
      publish DMARC p=3Dnone.  The intent is to eliminate failure reports=
 to
      the domain owner for messages that would be munged or wrapped if th=
e
      domain published a stronger DMARC policy.  See the descriptions in
      Defaults.py, the web UI and the bug report for more.  (LP: #1539384=
)

    - Thanks to Jim Popovitch there is now a feature to automatically tur=
n
      on moderation for a malicious list member who attempts to flood a l=
ist
      with spam.  See the details for the Privacy options ... -> Sender
      filters -> member_verbosity_threshold and member_verbosity_interval=

      settings in the web admin UI and the documentation in Defaults.py f=
or
      the DEFAULT_MEMBER_VERBOSITY_* and VERBOSE_CLEAN_LIMIT settings for=

      information.

    - bin/list_members now has options to display all moderated or all
      non-moderated members.

    - There is now a mm_cfg.py setting GLOBAL_BAN_LIST which is like the
      individual list's ban_list but applies globally to all subscribe
      requests.  See the description in Defaults.py for more details.

  i18n

    - Several Galician templates that were improperly encoded as iso-8859=
-1
      have been fixed.  (LP: #1532504)

    - The German translation has been updated by Mirian Margiani.

    - The Brazilian Portugese translation has been updated by Emerson Rib=
eiro
      de Mello.

  Bug fixes and other patches

    - Modified contrib/mmdsr to report held and banned subscriptions and =
DMARC
      lookups in their own categories.

    - Fixed a bug that could create a garbled From: header with certain D=
MARC
      mitigation actions.  (LP: #1536816)

    - Treat a poster's address which matches an equivalent_domains addres=
s as
      a list member for the regular_exclude_ignore check.  (LP: #1526550)=


    - Fixed an issue that sometimes left no white space following
      subject_prefix.  (LP: #1525954)

    - Vette log entries for banned subscriptions now include the source o=
f
      the request if available.  (LP: #1525733)

    - Submitting the user options form for a user who was asynchronously
      unsubscribed would throw an uncaught NotAMemberError.  (LP: #152327=
3)

    - It was possible under some circumstances for a message to be shunte=
d
      after a handler rejected or discarded it, and the handler would be
      skipped upon unshunting and the message accepted.  (LP: #1519062)

    - Posts gated to usenet will no longer have other than the target gro=
up
      in the Newsgroups: header.  (LP: #1512866)

    - Invalid regexps in *_these_nonmembers, subscribe_auto_approval and
      ban_list are now logged.  (LP: #1507241)

    - Refactored the GetPattern list method to simplify extending @listna=
me
      syntax to new attributes in the future.  Changed Moderate.py to use=
 the
      GetPattern method to process the *_these_nonmembers lists.

    - Changed CookHeaders to default to using space rather than tab as
      continuation_ws when folding headers.  (LP: #1505878)

    - Fixed the 'pidfile' path in the sample init.d script.  (LP: # 15034=
22)

    - Subject prefixing could fail to collapse multiple 'Re:' in an incom=
ming
      message if they all came after the list's subject_prefix.  This is =
now
      fixed.  (LP: #1496620)

    - Defended against a user submitting URLs with query fragments or POS=
T
      data containing multiple occurrences of the same variable.
      (LP: #1496632)

    - Fixed bin/mailmanctl to check its effective rather than real uid.
      (LP: #1491187)

    - Fixed cron/gate_news to catch EOFError on opening the newsgroup.
      (LP: #1486263)

    - Fixed a bug where a delayed probe bounce can throw an AttributeErro=
r.
      (LP: #1482940)

    - If a list is not digestable an the user is not currently set to
      receive digests, the digest options will not be shown on the user's=

      options page.  (LP: #1476298)

    - Improved identification of remote clients for logging and subscribe=

      form checking in cases where access is via a proxy server.  Thanks =
to
      Jim Popovitch.  Also updated contrib/mmdsr for log change.

    - Fixed an issue with shunted messages on a list where the charset fo=
r
      the list's preferred_language had been changed from iso-8859-1 to
      utf-8 without recoding the list's description.  (LP: #1462755)

    - Mailman-Postfix integration will now add mailman at domain entries in
      data/virtual-mailman for each domain in POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAI=
NS
      which is a host_name of a list.  This is so the addresses which are=

      exposed on admin and listinfo overview pages of virtual domains wil=
l
      be deliverable.  (LP: #1459236)

    - The vette log entry for DMARC policy hits now contains the list nam=
e.
      (LP: #1450826)

    - If SUBSCRIBE_FORM_SECRET is enabled and a user's network has a load=

      balancer or similar in use the POSTing IP might not exactly match t=
he
      GETting IP.  This is now accounted for by not requiring the last
      octet (16 bits for ipV6) to match.  (LP: #1447445)

    - DKIM-Signature:, DomainKey-Signature: and Authentication-Results:
      headers are now removed by default from posts to anonymous lists.
      (LP: #1444673)

    - The list admin web UI Mambership List search function often doesn't=

      return correct results for search strings (regexps) that contain
      non-ascii characters.  This is partially fixed.  (LP: #1442298)


--------------060207060504090803080503
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8;
 name="fix_list"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Disposition: attachment;
 filename="fix_list"

The following is a transcript of a withlist session that fixes a list
without new attributes.

It invokes withlist on 'listname'

looks at the lists dmarc_none_moderation_action which throws an Attribute=
Error

looks at the lists data_version which is 110.

sets it to 109.

saves and reloads the list.

verifies the data_version is now 110 again and dmarc_none_moderation_acti=
on
exists.

Wnlocks the list and exits.


msapiro at mail:~/mm$ bin/withlist -l listname
Loading list listname (locked)
The variable `m' is the listname MailList instance
>>> m.dmarc_none_moderation_action
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<console>", line 1, in <module>
  File "/srv/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 147, in __getattr__
    raise AttributeError, name
AttributeError: dmarc_none_moderation_action
>>> m.data_version
110
>>> m.data_version =3D 109
>>> m.Save()
>>> m.data_version
109
>>> m.Load()
>>> m.data_version
110
>>> m.dmarc_none_moderation_action
False
>>> m.Unlock()
>>>=20
Finalizing


Another way is to run bin/config_list on the list with an input file cont=
aining
the single line

mlist.data_version =3D 109


--------------060207060504090803080503--

--j6S4w6u3IBpq2Lhw4NRnht7WOGMvBbU6R
Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc"
Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc"

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v2

iEYEARECAAYFAla0RQgACgkQVVuXXpU7hpOFaQCeMErj6sUikNgEPuMQ/ArRfxGG
fi4AoKbzrE+yTSA9NTtS6DVjRFtsGf80
=ovSj
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

--j6S4w6u3IBpq2Lhw4NRnht7WOGMvBbU6R--

-------------- next part --------------
_______________________________________________
Mailman-announce mailing list
Mailman-announce at python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-announce
Member address: mark at msapiro.net
Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-announce/mark%40msapiro.net


From mark at msapiro.net  Sun Feb 28 18:32:00 2016
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2016 15:32:00 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Mailman 2.1.21 Final Release
Message-ID: <56D38370.6060602@msapiro.net>

Please ignore the spurious, fumble fingered post of a few minutes ago.

I am pleased to announce the release of Mailman 2.1.21.

Python 2.4 is the minimum supported, but Python 2.7 is strongly recommended.

This release includes a few new features and several bug fixes. Most of
the changes since the second release candidate are i18n updates, but
there are a few more bug fixes. See the attached README for details.

Mailman is free software for managing email mailing lists and
e-newsletters. Mailman is used for all the python.org and
SourceForge.net mailing lists, as well as at hundreds of other sites.

For more information, please see our web site at one of:

http://www.list.org
http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman
http://mailman.sourceforge.net/
http://mirror.list.org/

Mailman 2.1.21 can be downloaded from

https://launchpad.net/mailman/2.1/
http://ftp.gnu.org/gnu/mailman/
https://sourceforge.net/projects/mailman/

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
-------------- next part --------------
2.1.21 (28-Feb-2016)

  New Features

    - There is a new dmarc_none_moderation_action list setting and a
      DEFAULT_DMARC_NONE_MODERATION_ACTION mm_cfg.py setting to optionally
      apply Munge From or Wrap Message actions to posts From: domains that
      publish DMARC p=none.  The intent is to eliminate failure reports to
      the domain owner for messages that would be munged or wrapped if the
      domain published a stronger DMARC policy.  See the descriptions in
      Defaults.py, the web UI and the bug report for more.  (LP: #1539384)

    - Thanks to Jim Popovitch there is now a feature to automatically turn
      on moderation for a malicious list member who attempts to flood a list
      with spam.  See the details for the Privacy options ... -> Sender
      filters -> member_verbosity_threshold and member_verbosity_interval
      settings in the web admin UI and the documentation in Defaults.py for
      the DEFAULT_MEMBER_VERBOSITY_* and VERBOSE_CLEAN_LIMIT settings for
      information.

    - bin/list_members now has options to display all moderated or all
      non-moderated members.

    - There is now a mm_cfg.py setting GLOBAL_BAN_LIST which is like the
      individual list's ban_list but applies globally to all subscribe
      requests.  See the description in Defaults.py for more details.

  i18n

    - The Japanese translation has been updated by Yasuhito FUTATSUKI.

    - Also thanks to Miloslav Trmac and Yasuhito FUTATSUKI, the l10n for
      Mailman's bin/ commands has been fixed to display using the character
      set of the user's work station even when Mailman's character set for
      the language is different.  Because this has not been tested over a
      wide set of locales, there is an mm_cfg.py switch
      DISABLE_COMMAND_LOCALE_CSET to disable it if it causes problems.
      (LP: #558167)

    - The Polish translation has been updated by Stefan Plewako.

    - The German translation has been updated by Mirian Margiani and
      Bernhard Schmidt.

    - The Russian translation has been updated by Danil Smirnov.

    - Several Galician templates that were improperly encoded as iso-8859-1
      have been fixed.  (LP: #1532504)

    - The Brazilian Portugese translation has been updated by Emerson Ribeiro
      de Mello.

  Bug fixes and other patches

    - If DMARC lookup fails to find a policy, also try the Organizational
      Domain.  Associated with this is a new mm_cfg.py setting
      DMARC_ORGANIZATIONAL_DOMAIN_DATA_URL which sets the URL used to
      retrieve the data for the algorithm that computes the Organizational
      Domain.  See https://publicsuffix.org/list/ for info.  (LP: #1549420)

    - Modified contrib/mmdsr to correctly report No such list names that
      contain ".

    - User's "Acknowledge" option will now be honored for posts to anonymous
      lists.  (LP: #1546679)

    - Fixed a typo in the Non-digest options regular_exclude_ignore
      description thanks to Yasuhito FUTATSUKI.

    - DEFAULT_PASS_MIME_TYPES has been changed to accept text/plain sub-parts
      from message/rfc822 parts and multipart parts other than mixed and
      alternative and also accept pgp signatures.  This only applies to newly
      created lists and other than pgp signatures, still only accepts
      text/plain.  (LP: #1517446)

    - Modified contrib/mmdsr to report held and banned subscriptions and DMARC
      lookups in their own categories.

    - Fixed a bug that could create a garbled From: header with certain DMARC
      mitigation actions.  (LP: #1536816)

    - Treat a poster's address which matches an equivalent_domains address as
      a list member for the regular_exclude_ignore check.  (LP: #1526550)

    - Fixed an issue that sometimes left no white space following
      subject_prefix.  (LP: #1525954)

    - Vette log entries for banned subscriptions now include the source of
      the request if available.  (LP: #1525733)

    - Submitting the user options form for a user who was asynchronously
      unsubscribed would throw an uncaught NotAMemberError.  (LP: #1523273)

    - It was possible under some circumstances for a message to be shunted
      after a handler rejected or discarded it, and the handler would be
      skipped upon unshunting and the message accepted.  (LP: #1519062)

    - Posts gated to usenet will no longer have other than the target group
      in the Newsgroups: header.  (LP: #1512866)

    - Invalid regexps in *_these_nonmembers, subscribe_auto_approval and
      ban_list are now logged.  (LP: #1507241)

    - Refactored the GetPattern list method to simplify extending @listname
      syntax to new attributes in the future.  Changed Moderate.py to use the
      GetPattern method to process the *_these_nonmembers lists.

    - Changed CookHeaders to default to using space rather than tab as
      continuation_ws when folding headers.  (LP: #1505878)

    - Fixed the 'pidfile' path in the sample init.d script.  (LP: # 1503422)

    - Subject prefixing could fail to collapse multiple 'Re:' in an incomming
      message if they all came after the list's subject_prefix.  This is now
      fixed.  (LP: #1496620)

    - Defended against a user submitting URLs with query fragments or POST
      data containing multiple occurrences of the same variable.
      (LP: #1496632)

    - Fixed bin/mailmanctl to check its effective rather than real uid.
      (LP: #1491187)

    - Fixed cron/gate_news to catch EOFError on opening the newsgroup.
      (LP: #1486263)

    - Fixed a bug where a delayed probe bounce can throw an AttributeError.
      (LP: #1482940)

    - If a list is not digestable an the user is not currently set to
      receive digests, the digest options will not be shown on the user's
      options page.  (LP: #1476298)

    - Improved identification of remote clients for logging and subscribe
      form checking in cases where access is via a proxy server.  Thanks to
      Jim Popovitch.  Also updated contrib/mmdsr for log change.

    - Fixed an issue with shunted messages on a list where the charset for
      the list's preferred_language had been changed from iso-8859-1 to
      utf-8 without recoding the list's description.  (LP: #1462755)

    - Mailman-Postfix integration will now add mailman at domain entries in
      data/virtual-mailman for each domain in POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS
      which is a host_name of a list.  This is so the addresses which are
      exposed on admin and listinfo overview pages of virtual domains will
      be deliverable.  (LP: #1459236)

    - The vette log entry for DMARC policy hits now contains the list name.
      (LP: #1450826)

    - If SUBSCRIBE_FORM_SECRET is enabled and a user's network has a load
      balancer or similar in use the POSTing IP might not exactly match the
      GETting IP.  This is now accounted for by not requiring the last
      octet (16 bits for ipV6) to match.  (LP: #1447445)

    - DKIM-Signature:, DomainKey-Signature: and Authentication-Results:
      headers are now removed by default from posts to anonymous lists.
      (LP: #1444673)

    - The list admin web UI Mambership List search function often doesn't
      return correct results for search strings (regexps) that contain
      non-ascii characters.  This is partially fixed.  (LP: #1442298)

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From raj.abhilash1 at gmail.com  Sun Feb 28 18:45:36 2016
From: raj.abhilash1 at gmail.com (Abhilash Raj)
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2016 15:45:36 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Need help in installing Mailman3
In-Reply-To: <CABk3WVH+kc23fxg=hU+qFgbYLSXr2bkiAV4Z_jYv5t9G6ujwbA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABk3WVH+kc23fxg=hU+qFgbYLSXr2bkiAV4Z_jYv5t9G6ujwbA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <56D386A0.3050100@gmail.com>

Hi Sourav,

On 02/28/2016 01:42 PM, Saurav Kumar wrote:
> I? want to install Mailman in a custom directory, rather than using ?
> ?"user ?
> ?site-package" directory which is default when using install without any
> extra parameter.
> I'm not able to use the -d and install-dir parameter. Please guide me what
> i'm doing wrong

What do you mean by a custom directory? By default, setuptools is
configured to install packages in a particular directory on each linux
distribution (probably on OSX and Windows too, not sure about that.

However, if you want to setup mailman (or any python package) for
development, you can try 'python setup.py develop' instead of install.

> 
> Thanks
> Saurav
> _______________________________________________
> Mailman-Developers mailing list
> Mailman-Developers at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers
> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-developers%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-developers/raj.abhilash1%40gmail.com
> 
> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
> 

-- 
thanks,
Abhilash Raj

From stephen at xemacs.org  Sun Feb 28 22:08:50 2016
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Mon, 29 Feb 2016 12:08:50 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] ARC module implementation [was: GSOC 2016]
In-Reply-To: <CAAQRvQK6GwMfrWiU9ByOnXPr-4bnZ_0fbsH-WLyUmi=bDDw2MA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAAQRvQJSEEbbo-evCz5M5sGxtUkDPa1HRFcD+O7PqDDMNhpKPA@mail.gmail.com>
 <22196.7170.187271.561289@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
 <CAAQRvQLYAHk7phzW+yrzxN444OAG-UQzwtYsJYKftZkkvkdLkA@mail.gmail.com>
 <22203.1955.778022.464138@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
 <CAAQRvQ+rLvmvs6UO6670LO+3YUSRQHpPKgANK51outYnf9Jb3A@mail.gmail.com>
 <22208.11596.382963.821315@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
 <CAAQRvQLTogPi6SZxVfbQSyx6Af+QRtHtKSNtJgAS0zFzYAkDDA@mail.gmail.com>
 <22212.30504.386549.259204@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
 <CAAQRvQKnfxMR5tyHiAHjpmCbigEJNL=dR4erj0wsVVtXoRJVRQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <22216.8262.735974.257856@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
 <CAAQRvQJYfTTpXxV1mJrntC_3FTMwsei0vWBWpdLWxN36C7fJrQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <22218.23918.598335.172841@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
 <CAAQRvQK6GwMfrWiU9ByOnXPr-4bnZ_0fbsH-WLyUmi=bDDw2MA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <22227.46658.971187.15287@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

[Aside @Barry:  what's the current state of DMARC handling in Mailman
3?  (I assume below that there isn't any yet.)  I guess porting some
or all of the Mailman 2 facilities be a good GSoC project?]

Please keep GSoC traffic on Mailman-Developers.  Other developers have
need-to-know, as do other students.  Also, there's a good chance one
of the other developers will get around to answering before I do,
especially as I just got a pile of work dumped on me at work (one of
our adjunct faculty got suddenly recalled to the Bank of Japan,
leaving 8 units of courses unstaffed from April 1).  I'll stay current
with Mailman as much as a I can, but for the next few weeks that means
responding to non-work mail in 48 hours.

 > The deliver method in deliver.py is responsible for sending the
 > messages, and the errors are caught here and then classified as
 > permanent or temporary. So currently, if I am not wrong, all the
 > rejections that Mailman faces due to the dmarc reject policy of
 > some domains, permanent error 550 I think, are caught here if there
 > are any.

I don't think so.  You'll not catch them in mta.deliver.py, which
talks to your outgoing SMTP gateway, which normally does not do DMARC
processing.  On the other hand, the outgoing gateway doesn't make
Mailman wait until it knows what its remote peer will do; it queues
the message.  So any rejections you see in mta.deliver.deliver() are
a local matter.  Permanent failures likely indicate a configuration
problem, while temporary failures are probably due to maintenance on
the MTA or network problems or the like.

It's the final recipient MTA[1] that does DMARC processing, perhaps
hours or days after deliver() has returned :-).  At that point a
(new!) bounce message is created and sent back through the mail
system to Sender or Errors-To, which is <list>-bounces.  So this is
handled by the bounce runner, not the outgoing runner.

 > I was curious to know how this specific problem is being handled by
 > mailman right now. As in, how are the cases of subscribers of yahoo
 > using mailman currently being handled?

First, subscribers using Yahoo! are not the problem.  The DMARC
problem is that when anybody from Yahoo! posts, *all* subscribers are
at risk[2] of having their service bounce the post.  If it was just
Yahoo! subscribers, we wouldn't have to do anything except tell them
that their mail service is deliberately sabotaged by Yahoo!  It's the
collateral damage to well-behaved third parties that makes DMARC abuse
by AOL and Yahoo! so horrible.

Second, in Mailman 3, currently nothing is done AFAIK.  The first
patch was submitted against Mailman 2 before release of Mailman 3.0.
People using Mailman 3 at this point are unlikely to have large
populations of p=reject posters.

In Mailman 2, there are a number of options.  The one I recommend is
adding aol.com and yahoo.com to the subscription and poster ban
lists.<0.7 wink/>  This has the advantage (?) of also being usable in
Mailman 3.  A second is to configure the list without transforming the
message at all (no Subject tags, header, or footer), thus preserving
any valid DKIM signature.  This also works in Mailman 3.  These are
standard configuration options which you might use anyway for
completely different reasons.  However, they sort undermine the
argument for using Mailman in the first place for many sites.

The third, more pleasant, alternative is to configure the list to
transform the message by changing the *address* in RFC5322.From to the
list, and putting some amount of user identity in the display name of
the RFC5322.From (eg, "From Aditya Divekar (adityadivekar03 at gmail.com)
via Mailman-Users") of all messages.  A fourth is to treat the message
as a literal forward by including the message as a message/rfc822 part.

These transformations are done by Mailman Handlers.  Each has
disadvantages.  From-munging basically prevents the recipient from
filtering on From.  Few MUAs know how to handle a message "wrapped" in
a MIME part pleasantly, and some (especially AppleMail on iPhone)
choke badly.

Finally, the most sophisticated alternative is to parse the address
out of From, and do the DMARC DNS dance to determine if the sending
domain has a p=reject or p=quarantine policy.  If so, use either the
From-munging strategy or the MIME-wrapping strategy.  These still have
the disadvantages described above, but they only apply to posts From
domains abusing DMARC.

I don't think any of these would be that hard to port to Mailman 3, it
just hasn't been done yet.

Footnotes: 
[1]  This concept is a little ambiguous, in the case of things like
.forward files that point to another mail server.

[2]  If their mail service participates in DMARC (there's no way of
knowing that unless you're a user there), and if they don't do their
own mitigation (eg, GMail treats many messages from p=reject domains
as p=quarantine).



From saurav24007 at gmail.com  Mon Feb 29 03:02:55 2016
From: saurav24007 at gmail.com (Saurav Kumar)
Date: Mon, 29 Feb 2016 08:02:55 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Need help in installing Mailman3
In-Reply-To: <56D386A0.3050100@gmail.com>
References: <CABk3WVH+kc23fxg=hU+qFgbYLSXr2bkiAV4Z_jYv5t9G6ujwbA@mail.gmail.com>
 <56D386A0.3050100@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CABk3WVE0oOh4WDcpJ0LqQgEz3rDDUgCFCu7x4aQr4rRnfXNZ8g@mail.gmail.com>

I wanted to install the new packages in a virtualenv

On Mon, 29 Feb 2016, 05:15 Abhilash Raj, <raj.abhilash1 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Sourav,
>
> On 02/28/2016 01:42 PM, Saurav Kumar wrote:
> > I? want to install Mailman in a custom directory, rather than using ?
> > ?"user ?
> > ?site-package" directory which is default when using install without any
> > extra parameter.
> > I'm not able to use the -d and install-dir parameter. Please guide me
> what
> > i'm doing wrong
>
> What do you mean by a custom directory? By default, setuptools is
> configured to install packages in a particular directory on each linux
> distribution (probably on OSX and Windows too, not sure about that.
>
> However, if you want to setup mailman (or any python package) for
> development, you can try 'python setup.py develop' instead of install.
>
> >
> > Thanks
> > Saurav
> > _______________________________________________
> > Mailman-Developers mailing list
> > Mailman-Developers at python.org
> > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers
> > Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
> > Searchable Archives:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-developers%40python.org/
> > Unsubscribe:
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-developers/raj.abhilash1%40gmail.com
> >
> > Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
> >
>
> --
> thanks,
> Abhilash Raj
>
-- 

Saurav Kumar
Sophomore
IIT BHU Varanasi

From raj.abhilash1 at gmail.com  Mon Feb 29 04:36:25 2016
From: raj.abhilash1 at gmail.com (Abhilash Raj)
Date: Mon, 29 Feb 2016 01:36:25 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Need help in installing Mailman3
In-Reply-To: <CABk3WVE0oOh4WDcpJ0LqQgEz3rDDUgCFCu7x4aQr4rRnfXNZ8g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABk3WVH+kc23fxg=hU+qFgbYLSXr2bkiAV4Z_jYv5t9G6ujwbA@mail.gmail.com>
 <56D386A0.3050100@gmail.com>
 <CABk3WVE0oOh4WDcpJ0LqQgEz3rDDUgCFCu7x4aQr4rRnfXNZ8g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <56D41119.7030905@gmail.com>

On 02/29/2016 12:02 AM, Saurav Kumar wrote:
> I wanted to install the new packages in a virtualenv

Then, just running 'python setup.py install' from the source or 'pip
install <package name>' when the the virtualenv is activated should
install the package inside the virtualenv. Notice that you *don't*[1]
have to use sudo, using sudo will install it globally.

Footnotes:
1. Here I am assuming that you( the user) own the directory where the
virtualenv is.

> 
> 
> On Mon, 29 Feb 2016, 05:15 Abhilash Raj, <raj.abhilash1 at gmail.com
> <mailto:raj.abhilash1 at gmail.com>> wrote:
> 
>     Hi Sourav,
> 
>     On 02/28/2016 01:42 PM, Saurav Kumar wrote:
>     > I? want to install Mailman in a custom directory, rather than using ?
>     > ?"user ?
>     > ?site-package" directory which is default when using install
>     without any
>     > extra parameter.
>     > I'm not able to use the -d and install-dir parameter. Please guide
>     me what
>     > i'm doing wrong
> 
>     What do you mean by a custom directory? By default, setuptools is
>     configured to install packages in a particular directory on each linux
>     distribution (probably on OSX and Windows too, not sure about that.
> 
>     However, if you want to setup mailman (or any python package) for
>     development, you can try 'python setup.py develop' instead of install.
> 
>     >
>     > Thanks
>     > Saurav
>     > _______________________________________________
>     > Mailman-Developers mailing list
>     > Mailman-Developers at python.org <mailto:Mailman-Developers at python.org>
>     > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers
>     > Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
>     > Searchable Archives:
>     http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-developers%40python.org/
>     > Unsubscribe:
>     https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-developers/raj.abhilash1%40gmail.com
>     >
>     > Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
>     >
> 
>     --
>     thanks,
>     Abhilash Raj
> 
> -- 
> 
> Saurav Kumar
> Sophomore
> IIT BHU Varanasi
> 

-- 
thanks,
Abhilash Raj

From jonax at openmailbox.org  Mon Feb 29 06:02:49 2016
From: jonax at openmailbox.org (Jonas)
Date: Mon, 29 Feb 2016 12:02:49 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] GSoC Project: pgp plugin
In-Reply-To: <CAF2AkX=7t57C_4MV098xzRqvHjcVTpoxefRjs0XwLa_Lf1TG5A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <56D1EC55.60909@openmailbox.org>
 <CAF2AkX=7t57C_4MV098xzRqvHjcVTpoxefRjs0XwLa_Lf1TG5A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <56D42559.5010202@openmailbox.org>

Hi Abhilash Raj, Hi Steve

Thank you both for taking the time and considering to mentor me.

On 28.02.2016 04:48, Abhilash Raj wrote:
> If you don't know, I worked on this project some time back in GSoC 2013.
> The  current state of that project is not very good and probably needs a
> *lot* of rebasing to do.

I did not know that. What were the problems?

On 28.02.2016 04:48, Abhilash Raj wrote:
> Here is a link[1] to discussions that have already been done before on this

I think that link is missing, I'm very interested in looking into this.

First of all, if this wasn't clear, my plan was to make a re-encryption
gateway. Messages are encrypted to the listservers keypair and
re-encrypted there for each of the recipients.
How did your implementation work, Abhilash Raj?

I had two modes of Operation in mind:
 (a) One that doesn't encrypt all of the mail but gives users the option
to send and recieve pgp encrypted mails. This might be useful for very
small private lists where some communication is protected against
eavesdropping in other ways, when a list is in the progress of
introducing encrypted communication or for (other) testing purposes.
 (b) A strict mode that keeps all the communication encrypted and won't
ever send out mail without encrypting it.

The strict (b) mode should certainly be default, and
>  8. Optionally forced encryption (such a list never sends mail to an
>     adress to which it can't encrypt with a pubkey that has a certain
>     level of trust and/or won't accept inbound mail in plaintext)
is in fact essential for the application to make sense. By Optionally, I
meant that it should be possible to not force encryption which would be
the (a) mode of operation.

On 28.02.2016 04:48, Abhilash Raj wrote:
> 
> I have a few small questions doubts about your features below...
> 
> 
>> Some features could be:
>>  1. Automatic pubkey collection from inbound mail
>>
> 
> What happens if I send a forged email with some user's email address as
> FROM and use a fake key? Automatic public key collection isn't a very good
> idea, you should be *very* careful about how you handle public keys.

The idea was to collect the public keys so an authority (list admin)
could manually set their trust levels which would be necessary in strict
(b) mode in order to use a key at all.

On 28.02.2016 04:48, Abhilash Raj wrote:
>>  2. Outbound mail encryption and signature validation
>>
> 
> I would suggest you keep encryption as a part of extended goals in case of
> GSoC. You'd be surprised how many students are not able to finish their
> proposal in time.

I will try to make a realistic evaluation of what's possible in my GSoC
before i apply.

On 28.02.2016 10:30, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
>  >  2. Outbound mail encryption and signature validation
>  >  4. Inbound mail decryption and outbound mail signature
>
> I don't understand these pairs.  Why encrypt mail *to* the server if
> it's only going to be decrypted on the way out?  Why encrypt outgoing
> posts if they might have been read in the clear before being received?

On 28.02.2016 04:48, Abhilash Raj wrote:
> Shouldn't both be working differently? Encrypted
> emails distributed as encrypted email and signed email distributed as
> signed.

I paired them this way because outbound encryption and inbound signature
validation requires the application to manage the subscribers public
keys and inbound encryption requires the application to manage the lists
keypair so I would probably implement 1. and 2. as well as 3. and 4. at
the same time. 1-4 are part of the core functionality.
My list is badly structured.


On 28.02.2016 10:30, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
> End-to-end encryption or signature or both seems to be the right
> thing.

The concept of a mailserver doesn't allow real end-to-end encryption if
each recipient uses a different keypair.
A user would have to have the public keys of all the subscribers at the
time of sending a mail to the list and encrypt the mail for each of
them. This would require modification to the client software for this to
behave like a mailinglist, especially if subscribers join or leave the list.

A method for real end-to-end mailinglists is described in
Practical Encrypted Mailing Lists by Neal H. Walfield, feb 2016 [1]
but this is not what I want to do.
Another alternative would be to have a pgp proxy outside the list server
that does the re-encryption but this would not be as convenient as
having a re-encrypting listserver.

Considering that all subscribers recieve the mail and usually listserver
admins are subscribers theirselves, I think than an implementation where
the listserver recieves a copy as well definitly has some uses.
Users would have to be aware that the privacy of communication relies on
the protection of the listserver and listserver admins would have to be
aware that they need to protect the lists keypair.

On 28.02.2016 10:30, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
> Out of scope for one summer IMHO.  It's not obvious what the security
> implications are.  Better to do key generation off-line.

What security implications are you refering to? Some servers have true
hardware rngs. If there isn't enough entropy, no keys should generate
with /dev/random as entropy source. Having the proper crypto libraries
and random number sources is in the responsibility of the user.
With this concept, there will be a private key on the listserver and
this should be clear to the users. It has security implications but I
think they are admissible.

On 28.02.2016 10:30, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
>  >  5. A mailinterface for organizing the encrypted lists, subscribers
>  >     public keys and trust levels
>  >  6. A webinterface
>
> These too are out of scope.  Again, security implications are unclear.
>
>  >  7. PGP Information in the messages (e.g. was the incoming mail signed
>  >     by a trusted subscriber?)
>
> What does "trusted" mean?
Trusted means that the key has been marked as trusted by an authority
(list admin). The authority has to decide what actions have to be taken
to mark a key as trusted. This could be exchanging fingerprints in real
life or fingerprints could be confirmed by a trusted third party (eg a
list member that already knows that public key).

On 28.02.2016 04:48, Abhilash Raj wrote:
>>  5. A mailinterface for organizing the encrypted lists, subscribers
>>     public keys and trust levels
> 
> 
> I would like to know more on how you plan to do this.
It could be one command to list all the pubkey fingerprints along with
the corresponding subscriber email adress, the trust level and another
command to set the trust level of a pubkey (by its fingerprint).
This would require the list admin to securely identify, for example
by pgp signing command mails.

I did not yet research how to implement mail commands.

On 28.02.2016 10:30, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
> Yes, crypto support (both encryption and signatures) are a FAQ.
> However, nobody has ever really provided specific requirements (ie,
> the threat model to defend against), so it's very hard to decide what
> to do, and documentation of whatever is done would be impossible.

I'm not exactly sure what a threat model is. But a scenario this would
protect from is eavesdropping on list communication by a mailserver ? or
anyone in case inter-mailserver communication or access to a mailbox
isn't properly secured. A scenario where privacy could still be violated
is when an eavesdropper gains access to the mailserver or any
subscribers private key.

I don't understand, why would documentation be impossible?

[1]: http://hssl.cs.jhu.edu/~neal/encrypted-mailing-lists.pdf

Jonas

From raj.abhilash1 at gmail.com  Mon Feb 29 06:32:18 2016
From: raj.abhilash1 at gmail.com (Abhilash Raj)
Date: Mon, 29 Feb 2016 03:32:18 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] GSoC Project: pgp plugin
In-Reply-To: <56D42559.5010202@openmailbox.org>
References: <56D1EC55.60909@openmailbox.org>
 <CAF2AkX=7t57C_4MV098xzRqvHjcVTpoxefRjs0XwLa_Lf1TG5A@mail.gmail.com>
 <56D42559.5010202@openmailbox.org>
Message-ID: <56D42C42.3010201@gmail.com>

On 02/29/2016 03:02 AM, Jonas wrote:
> Hi Abhilash Raj, Hi Steve
> 
> Thank you both for taking the time and considering to mentor me.
> 
> On 28.02.2016 04:48, Abhilash Raj wrote:
>> If you don't know, I worked on this project some time back in GSoC 2013.
>> The  current state of that project is not very good and probably needs a
>> *lot* of rebasing to do.
> 
> I did not know that. What were the problems?

I did implement the signature verification for the
application/pgp-signed emails and was able to get everything working
too. There was some plumbing left that I never went back to finish.

> 
> On 28.02.2016 04:48, Abhilash Raj wrote:
>> Here is a link[1] to discussions that have already been done before on this
> 
> I think that link is missing, I'm very interested in looking into this.

Sorry about that, here it is
http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-developers%40python.org/msg13413.html.

> 
> First of all, if this wasn't clear, my plan was to make a re-encryption
> gateway. Messages are encrypted to the listservers keypair and
> re-encrypted there for each of the recipients.
> How did your implementation work, Abhilash Raj?

Kinda similar, just that I mostly focused on just implementing the key
management and verifying digital signatures and figuring out a message
structure that would let us retain signatures from both list and
original sender.

> 
> I had two modes of Operation in mind:
>  (a) One that doesn't encrypt all of the mail but gives users the option
> to send and recieve pgp encrypted mails. This might be useful for very
> small private lists where some communication is protected against
> eavesdropping in other ways, when a list is in the progress of
> introducing encrypted communication or for (other) testing purposes.
>  (b) A strict mode that keeps all the communication encrypted and won't
> ever send out mail without encrypting it.
> 
> The strict (b) mode should certainly be default, and
>>  8. Optionally forced encryption (such a list never sends mail to an
>>     adress to which it can't encrypt with a pubkey that has a certain
>>     level of trust and/or won't accept inbound mail in plaintext)
> is in fact essential for the application to make sense. By Optionally, I
> meant that it should be possible to not force encryption which would be
> the (a) mode of operation.
> 
> On 28.02.2016 04:48, Abhilash Raj wrote:
>>
>> I have a few small questions doubts about your features below...
>>
>>
>>> Some features could be:
>>>  1. Automatic pubkey collection from inbound mail
>>>
>>
>> What happens if I send a forged email with some user's email address as
>> FROM and use a fake key? Automatic public key collection isn't a very good
>> idea, you should be *very* careful about how you handle public keys.
> 
> The idea was to collect the public keys so an authority (list admin)
> could manually set their trust levels which would be necessary in strict
> (b) mode in order to use a key at all.
> 
> On 28.02.2016 04:48, Abhilash Raj wrote:
>>>  2. Outbound mail encryption and signature validation
>>>
>>
>> I would suggest you keep encryption as a part of extended goals in case of
>> GSoC. You'd be surprised how many students are not able to finish their
>> proposal in time.
> 
> I will try to make a realistic evaluation of what's possible in my GSoC
> before i apply.
> 
> On 28.02.2016 10:30, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
>>  >  2. Outbound mail encryption and signature validation
>>  >  4. Inbound mail decryption and outbound mail signature
>>
>> I don't understand these pairs.  Why encrypt mail *to* the server if
>> it's only going to be decrypted on the way out?  Why encrypt outgoing
>> posts if they might have been read in the clear before being received?
> 
> On 28.02.2016 04:48, Abhilash Raj wrote:
>> Shouldn't both be working differently? Encrypted
>> emails distributed as encrypted email and signed email distributed as
>> signed.
> 
> I paired them this way because outbound encryption and inbound signature
> validation requires the application to manage the subscribers public
> keys and inbound encryption requires the application to manage the lists
> keypair so I would probably implement 1. and 2. as well as 3. and 4. at
> the same time. 1-4 are part of the core functionality.
> My list is badly structured.
> 
> 
> On 28.02.2016 10:30, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
>> End-to-end encryption or signature or both seems to be the right
>> thing.
> 
> The concept of a mailserver doesn't allow real end-to-end encryption if
> each recipient uses a different keypair.
> A user would have to have the public keys of all the subscribers at the
> time of sending a mail to the list and encrypt the mail for each of
> them. This would require modification to the client software for this to
> behave like a mailinglist, especially if subscribers join or leave the list.
> 
> A method for real end-to-end mailinglists is described in
> Practical Encrypted Mailing Lists by Neal H. Walfield, feb 2016 [1]
> but this is not what I want to do.
> Another alternative would be to have a pgp proxy outside the list server
> that does the re-encryption but this would not be as convenient as
> having a re-encrypting listserver.
> 
> Considering that all subscribers recieve the mail and usually listserver
> admins are subscribers theirselves, I think than an implementation where
> the listserver recieves a copy as well definitly has some uses.
> Users would have to be aware that the privacy of communication relies on
> the protection of the listserver and listserver admins would have to be
> aware that they need to protect the lists keypair.
> 
> On 28.02.2016 10:30, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
>> Out of scope for one summer IMHO.  It's not obvious what the security
>> implications are.  Better to do key generation off-line.
> 
> What security implications are you refering to? Some servers have true
> hardware rngs. If there isn't enough entropy, no keys should generate
> with /dev/random as entropy source. Having the proper crypto libraries
> and random number sources is in the responsibility of the user.
> With this concept, there will be a private key on the listserver and
> this should be clear to the users. It has security implications but I
> think they are admissible.
> 
> On 28.02.2016 10:30, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
>>  >  5. A mailinterface for organizing the encrypted lists, subscribers
>>  >     public keys and trust levels
>>  >  6. A webinterface
>>
>> These too are out of scope.  Again, security implications are unclear.
>>
>>  >  7. PGP Information in the messages (e.g. was the incoming mail signed
>>  >     by a trusted subscriber?)
>>
>> What does "trusted" mean?
> Trusted means that the key has been marked as trusted by an authority
> (list admin). The authority has to decide what actions have to be taken
> to mark a key as trusted. This could be exchanging fingerprints in real
> life or fingerprints could be confirmed by a trusted third party (eg a
> list member that already knows that public key).
> 
> On 28.02.2016 04:48, Abhilash Raj wrote:
>>>  5. A mailinterface for organizing the encrypted lists, subscribers
>>>     public keys and trust levels
>>
>>
>> I would like to know more on how you plan to do this.
> It could be one command to list all the pubkey fingerprints along with
> the corresponding subscriber email adress, the trust level and another
> command to set the trust level of a pubkey (by its fingerprint).
> This would require the list admin to securely identify, for example
> by pgp signing command mails.
> 
> I did not yet research how to implement mail commands.
> 
> On 28.02.2016 10:30, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
>> Yes, crypto support (both encryption and signatures) are a FAQ.
>> However, nobody has ever really provided specific requirements (ie,
>> the threat model to defend against), so it's very hard to decide what
>> to do, and documentation of whatever is done would be impossible.
> 
> I'm not exactly sure what a threat model is. But a scenario this would
> protect from is eavesdropping on list communication by a mailserver ? or
> anyone in case inter-mailserver communication or access to a mailbox
> isn't properly secured. A scenario where privacy could still be violated
> is when an eavesdropper gains access to the mailserver or any
> subscribers private key.
> 
> I don't understand, why would documentation be impossible?
> 
> [1]: http://hssl.cs.jhu.edu/~neal/encrypted-mailing-lists.pdf
> 
> Jonas
> _______________________________________________
> Mailman-Developers mailing list
> Mailman-Developers at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers
> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-developers%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-developers/raj.abhilash1%40gmail.com
> 
> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
> 

-- 
thanks,
Abhilash Raj

From terri at toybox.ca  Mon Feb 29 08:53:13 2016
From: terri at toybox.ca (Terri Oda)
Date: Mon, 29 Feb 2016 05:53:13 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Fwd: [Python-Dev] [ANNOUNCE] fuzzpy
In-Reply-To: <CAEWpfG8F6+Uhb-jJv2FvoeSLjpUUwQ=QUak=k-fnOwBrnbAhKA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAEWpfG8F6+Uhb-jJv2FvoeSLjpUUwQ=QUak=k-fnOwBrnbAhKA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <56D44D49.4080607@toybox.ca>

I know I was talking to someone a while ago about maybe doing some fuzz 
testing on Mailman.  If anyone's interested, this might be a tool worth 
trying out:


-------- Forwarded Message --------
Subject: 	[Python-Dev] [ANNOUNCE] fuzzpy
Date: 	Sun, 28 Feb 2016 21:44:39 -0600
From: 	Brian Cain <brian.cain at gmail.com>
To: 	python-dev at python.org



##################################################################

?  ?  *---------------------------------------------------*
?  ?  * ?  ? fuzzpy: CPython fuzz tester is now available ?  *
?  ?  * ?  ?  ?  ?  ?  ?  ?  ?  ?  ?  ?  ?  ?  ?  ?  ?  ?  ?  ?  ?  ?
?  ?  ?  ?  *
?  ?  * ?  ?  ?  ?  ?  ?  ?  ?  ?  Version 0.8 ?  ?  ?  ?  ?  ?  ?  ?
?  ?  *
?  ?  * ?  ?  ?  ? https://bitbucket.org/ebadf/fuzzpy/ ?  ?  ?  ? *
?  ?  *---------------------------------------------------*

I am pleased to announce the creation of a coverage-guided fuzz tester
for CPython.?  It's a pretty small wrapper around LLVM's libFuzzer that
enables some powerful testing logic.?  AFL (American Fuzzy Lop) is
another popular fuzzer lately -- libFuzzer is very similar in concept to
AFL.?  From what I've read on list archives, Victor Stinner had
previously done some good fuzz testing on CPython using fusil.?  This
project should expand on that concept.

I'd love to get feedback, suggestions, patches and anything else the
list can offer.


Q: What is fuzzpy for?
A: It's primarily for testing CPython itself, but could also be used for
individual python projects too.?  Pure-python projects will be the
simplest to integrate at this point.?  Also, interesting test cases
output by fuzzpy may end up being useful in testing others such as pypy,
pyston, etc.

Q: What is a fuzz tester?
A: It modifies inputs to a test case in order to find unique/rare failures.

Q: What does "coverage-guided" mean?
A: It means that libFuzzer is able to witness the specific code executed
as a result of a given test case.?  It feeds this information back into
an engine to modify the test cases to optimize for coverage.

Q: How can I help?
A1: donate cycles: build the project and crank away on one of the
existing tests.?  Relative to other common fuzzing, it's awfully slow,
so consider throwing as many cycles as you can afford to.
A2: contribute tests: write a ~10-line python script that exercises a
feature that you think could benefit from fuzz testing.
A3: if there's interest, I can accept cryptocoin donations to purchase
cycles on a cloud server.


##################################################################


-- 
-Brian


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From terri at toybox.ca  Mon Feb 29 08:41:27 2016
From: terri at toybox.ca (Terri Oda)
Date: Mon, 29 Feb 2016 05:41:27 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Gitlab integration, GSOC'16
In-Reply-To: <CAHu4ZCoGCbyaK8TO1AWdiWK5MvygGa-etANzfxqMA-+yG-EcwA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAHu4ZCoGCbyaK8TO1AWdiWK5MvygGa-etANzfxqMA-+yG-EcwA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <56D44A87.2090302@toybox.ca>

On 2016-02-28 1:34 PM, aahan bhatt wrote:
> Please explain about the gitlab integration in layman terms. I would like
> to contribute to the project.

Gitlab integration can mean a lot of things, and we've left this 
particular project pretty open to see what people will suggest.

The tweet linked talks about moving a discussion from a mailing list to 
a bug tracker.  So imagine that you have a bunch of people discussing an 
issue on a mailing list and after a few posts someone says "hm, that 
configuration didn't work the way I expected, this sounds like a bug, 
maybe we should file it" -- we want a way to dump the whole discussion 
into a bug so when someone goes to fix it they have all the information. 
  You'd need to think a bit about privacy (were the mailing list posts 
public?  what about the bug tracker?) and relevance of information (what 
if I only want some of the posts?  what if I want to link the discussion 
but only provide a summary?) to go from the idea of "make it easier to 
file bugs using information from a mailing list discussion" to an actual 
workable interface for doing that, but that's the core of it.


If you want to understand the whole gitlab integration idea better 
beyond that one use case, try brainstorming a little bit about how the 
pieces could work together.  How could a mailing list integrate better 
with a bug tracker?  How could it integrate better with merge requests? 
  What information would people want to pass from one system to the 
other and why?

For an example you might want to take a look at idea #27 on this page: 
http://blog.linuxgrrl.com/2012/03/14/mailman-brainstorm-2/





From trealtv at yandex.com  Mon Feb 29 10:54:28 2016
From: trealtv at yandex.com (treal tv)
Date: Mon, 29 Feb 2016 10:54:28 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Mailman 3 custom footer
In-Reply-To: <20160226192405.465401bb@subdivisions.wooz.org>
References: <56CF57D1.4040203@yandex.com>
 <20160226192405.465401bb@subdivisions.wooz.org>
Message-ID: <56D469B4.30504@yandex.com>

Hey Barry! I'm a few days late to respond to this, but I just wanted to 
let you know I found this immensely useful, and my footer looks just 
like how I want it to be :)

We are using Mailman 3 in production in a corporate environment. I'm 
willing to deal with the re-structuring of Mailman when 3.1 comes around :)

Thanks again Barry.

On 02/26/2016 07:24 PM, Barry Warsaw wrote:
> On Feb 25, 2016, at 02:36 PM, treal tv wrote:
>
>> I'm looking to modify the contents of this footer so it says something
>> slightly different. However, I can't find anywhere with Mailman 3 to change
>> anything about the footer.
> I'll describe what you have today, but it's likely the exact details will
> change at some point (maybe for 3.1 if my ideas pan out).  Still, how it works
> today still contains the basic scheme for how I want it to work in the future.
>
> The thing to remember is that while Core needs to send out emails with various
> templates, it can't make any assumptions about what is on the web front-end,
> so text like footers can't contain URLs and such by default.  Yes, this is a
> bit of a mess right now because you'll still see substitutions like
> $listinfo_url in some templates, even though these can't be correctly filled
> in.
>
> So there are two parts to this answer.  The first is finding the template to
> use for the footer[*], and then filling in all the placeholders.
>
> You've found the footer-generic.txt template, but how is this used?  Every
> mailing list currently has an attribute called `footer_uri`, and this is set
> in the list style.  I've previously described how style works so I won't go
> down that detour here.  Suffice to say that the default style sets footer_uri
> to `mailman:///$listname/$language/footer-generic.txt`.
>
> Notice two things about this uri.
>
>   * It has a `mailman:` scheme.
>   * It has some $-placeholders.
>
> What happens is that in the decorate handler, when the footer is put on the
> outgoing message, we first substitute some useful information into the uri's
> placeholders.  The values should be obvious: $listname gets the fqdn_listname
> value and $language gets the preferred_language.code.  So for mailing list
> alpha at example.com using Italian as its preferred language, the footer_uri
> gets transformed into mailman:///alpha at example.com/it/footer-generic.txt.
>
> Now we start to look that up.  Of course, if the scheme were http: or https:,
> we'd just issue a request to that url and use whatever we find.  The intent is
> that in Postorius or some other CMS or web resource repository, you'd be able
> to define a custom template appropriate for your site.  You'd set the list's
> footer_uri to something like https://my.cms.example.com/footer.txt and since
> there are no placeholders, Mailman just grabs the text at that url and viola!
> you've got your footer.  Supporting the placeholders allows your CMS to
> provide different footers for different lists, and of course you'll want to
> provide different footers for different human languages.
>
> But okay, now we have mailman:///alpha at example.com/it/footer-generic.txt and
> we have to look that up.  What are the rules for mailman: urls?
>
> mailman: urls are shorthand for internal resources, homed in the source code
> directory on the file system.  The search order is well documented, but not
> easily discovered so here's the documentation:
>
> https://gitlab.com/mailman/mailman/blob/master/src/mailman/utilities/i18n.py#L53
>
> You can see how there's a search hierarchy, such that if you only want a
> single template for all your lists on the site, you can define it once on the
> file system, and Mailman will just find that one.  Similarly, you could have a
> template that applies to all lists within the same domain, or have list
> specific templates.  So, bottom line is, drop a file in the template_dir
> defined in your mailman.cfg and set your list's footer_uri to a mailman: url
> that points here, and Bob's your uncle.
>
> Now the second step alluded to earlier.  Once you've located the template, the
> template *itself* can have substitution placeholders, and for message headers
> and footers (i.e. message decorations) they get filled in here:
>
> https://gitlab.com/mailman/mailman/blob/master/src/mailman/handlers/decorate.py#L228
>
> So you can see how your template can contain information about the mailing
> list's name, hostname, description, etc.  `extradict` comes into play (or at
> least *should* <wink>) when messages are personalized, such that some
> information specific to the user could be added, e.g. their unsubscribe link.
> This may not be fully plumbed out right now though.
>
> Briefly then, how will this be different in the future?  I'm still working out
> the design, but roughly, there will be a new ITemplateManager that holds
> mappings between template names, a context (e.g. mailing list, domain, or
> site), URIs, and "resource dictionaries".  This ITemplateManager would be a
> top-level REST resource so Postorius and other REST clients could directly
> manipulate these mappings.
>
> Then you'd be able to say, through REST, "set the footer template, for all
> mailing lists on example.com, to https://my.cms.example.com/footer.txt`.  When
> needed, the core delivery engine would then ask the template manager for the
> contents of the footer template for a given mailing list, and it would get
> back a bunch of text (appropriately cached, with various cache management
> knobs for efficiency).  Mailman would then fill in substitution variables in
> this footer template as before, but it would *also* do a query for the
> "resource dictionary" which would be e.g. a JSON mapping keys to values.  This
> would then let your CMS also define additional bits of data to shove into the
> footer when it gets sent out.
>
> Cheers,
> -Barry
>
> [*] and when you read "footer", think "just about any template eventually".
> _______________________________________________
> Mailman-Developers mailing list
> Mailman-Developers at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers
> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-developers%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-developers/trealtv%40yandex.com
>
> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9


From barry at list.org  Mon Feb 29 13:09:04 2016
From: barry at list.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Mon, 29 Feb 2016 13:09:04 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] ARC module implementation [was: GSOC 2016]
In-Reply-To: <22227.46658.971187.15287@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <CAAQRvQJSEEbbo-evCz5M5sGxtUkDPa1HRFcD+O7PqDDMNhpKPA@mail.gmail.com>
 <22196.7170.187271.561289@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
 <CAAQRvQLYAHk7phzW+yrzxN444OAG-UQzwtYsJYKftZkkvkdLkA@mail.gmail.com>
 <22203.1955.778022.464138@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
 <CAAQRvQ+rLvmvs6UO6670LO+3YUSRQHpPKgANK51outYnf9Jb3A@mail.gmail.com>
 <22208.11596.382963.821315@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
 <CAAQRvQLTogPi6SZxVfbQSyx6Af+QRtHtKSNtJgAS0zFzYAkDDA@mail.gmail.com>
 <22212.30504.386549.259204@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
 <CAAQRvQKnfxMR5tyHiAHjpmCbigEJNL=dR4erj0wsVVtXoRJVRQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <22216.8262.735974.257856@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
 <CAAQRvQJYfTTpXxV1mJrntC_3FTMwsei0vWBWpdLWxN36C7fJrQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <22218.23918.598335.172841@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
 <CAAQRvQK6GwMfrWiU9ByOnXPr-4bnZ_0fbsH-WLyUmi=bDDw2MA@mail.gmail.com>
 <22227.46658.971187.15287@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <20160229130904.34c02910@subdivisions.wooz.org>

On Feb 29, 2016, at 12:08 PM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:

>[Aside @Barry:  what's the current state of DMARC handling in Mailman
>3?  (I assume below that there isn't any yet.)  I guess porting some
>or all of the Mailman 2 facilities be a good GSoC project?]

Correct!

Cheers,
-Barry
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From manish.bisht490 at gmail.com  Mon Feb 29 13:25:45 2016
From: manish.bisht490 at gmail.com (Manish Bisht)
Date: Mon, 29 Feb 2016 23:55:45 +0530
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] GSOC 16
Message-ID: <CAO1FkOeYeUACTuUtPtnGEYZtLUfYGASDGuWMDQbd4dUrTnvHUA@mail.gmail.com>

Hello devs,

Google is announcing the list of selected organisation for GSOC 16 in few
hours. Hope you all will like to join.

Mentor are welcome as they are needed to guide the students and students
are also welcome who would like to contribute. Think about the project idea
and post it to mailing list for suggestions. Or choose the projects from
the list.

Hope we will got selected (fingers crossed) :)

From barry at list.org  Mon Feb 29 13:41:12 2016
From: barry at list.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Mon, 29 Feb 2016 13:41:12 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Regexp filtering
In-Reply-To: <22225.11769.251788.350761@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <BLUPR01MB12364195988F44AC1C93545AADA70@BLUPR01MB1236.prod.exchangelabs.com>
 <22224.34168.628954.746288@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
 <56D0A6DC.2000903@msapiro.net>
 <22225.11769.251788.350761@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <20160229134112.3f41793e@subdivisions.wooz.org>

On Feb 27, 2016, at 02:02 PM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:

>I hope we haven't propagated this rather user-unfriendly interface
>(the convention of accepting both regexps and literals, distinguishing
>by "^" in column 0) to Mailman 3.

Sadly, it's true.

Mostly this is historical since we've essentially just ported the data and
code from Mailman 2.  It was implemented this way because of the limitations
for data modeling, and the unsophisticated web ui in MM2.

We could do better in MM3, both because we can model the data better, we can
expose the distinction in REST, and Postorius could expose the difference in a
much better web ui.

Here's a rough sketch of what you'd have to do in the core to make this
change.  As always merge requests are welcome!

IBan would need to have a flag which indicate whether the `email` is a literal
address or a pattern.  I don't think it's worth having two separate
interfaces/models, but we might want to rename `email` to something more
generic (`pattern` would be fine, with the understanding that is_regexp=False
means the pattern is a literal).  You'll need to change a bunch of checks and
what-not in the ban management code.

This also shows up in AcceptableAliases, so a similar change would have to be
made to IAcceptableAlias, the various model implementation bits of that
interface, and the implicit_dest.py rule.

The REST API for these would probably need some additional work, but that
can't easily be done.  The trickiest part would be if IBan.email is renamed,
in which case you'd probably want to continue to accept the old data format
for the 3.0 API (and translate it into the new model layer), but only accept
the new data format in the 3.1 API.  There are examples of how to do
API-version differentiation.

It's still used in the *_these_nonmember checks (moderation.py rule), but as
these are legacy facilities from Mailman 2, I'm not sure they need to change.
Eventually, we want to remove these settings anyway, since all the
functionality is implemented differently and better in MM3 already.

Another odd use of this is in the `withlist` subcommand.

(It's also used in the wsgiref/falcon plumbing layer, but since that's all
internal implementation details, nothing here needs to change.)

You'd need to handle database migrations and documentation updates too, along
with a robust test suite, but there's nothing intractable about any of this.

Cheers,
-Barry

From barry at list.org  Mon Feb 29 13:48:16 2016
From: barry at list.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Mon, 29 Feb 2016 13:48:16 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Mailman 3 custom footer
In-Reply-To: <56D469B4.30504@yandex.com>
References: <56CF57D1.4040203@yandex.com>
 <20160226192405.465401bb@subdivisions.wooz.org>
 <56D469B4.30504@yandex.com>
Message-ID: <20160229134816.5dd5c3e7@subdivisions.wooz.org>

On Feb 29, 2016, at 10:54 AM, treal tv wrote:

>We are using Mailman 3 in production in a corporate environment. I'm willing
>to deal with the re-structuring of Mailman when 3.1 comes around :)

Nice!

Cheers,
-Barry

From stephen at xemacs.org  Mon Feb 29 14:37:16 2016
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2016 04:37:16 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Regexp filtering
In-Reply-To: <20160229134112.3f41793e@subdivisions.wooz.org>
References: <BLUPR01MB12364195988F44AC1C93545AADA70@BLUPR01MB1236.prod.exchangelabs.com>
 <22224.34168.628954.746288@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
 <56D0A6DC.2000903@msapiro.net>
 <22225.11769.251788.350761@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
 <20160229134112.3f41793e@subdivisions.wooz.org>
Message-ID: <22228.40428.554323.692451@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Barry Warsaw writes:

 > IBan would need to have a flag which indicate whether the `email`
 > is a literal address or a pattern.  I don't think it's worth having
 > two separate interfaces/models, but we might want to rename `email`
 > to something more generic (`pattern` would be fine, with the
 > understanding that is_regexp=False means the pattern is a literal).

Are regexps sufficiently slow that *always* using a regexp would hurt
performance?[1]  The model I really had in mind was to always use
regexps, and have a flag in the UI (Postorius) to regexp-quote when
the user wants a literal.

Or we could continue to have the core representation be "leading '^'
iff regexp", and once again have Postorius prepend "^.*" or whatever.


Footnotes: 
[1]  XEmacs actually checks whether a regexp contains any regexp
operators and automatically switches to a very fast literal search if
not.



From jassigrewal91 at gmail.com  Mon Feb 29 14:25:06 2016
From: jassigrewal91 at gmail.com (Jasvir Singh)
Date: Mon, 29 Feb 2016 11:25:06 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Introduction
Message-ID: <CAN_O85tGHTU4+r9RAwdY7hrPtm_1+Y0ALjqunrZV1vmoejr-0w@mail.gmail.com>

Hello everyone.
I am Jasvir Singh Grewal, a graduate student from CSU Long Beach. I am
feeling very excited to introduce myself on this mailing list. I have
been working on open source technologies since 3 years. Last 2 years I
have spent primarily working on Django and Python and it'll be a
pleasure for me if I can use my skills for Mailman.

Thank You
-- 
Jasvir Singh Grewal
https://github.com/jasvir99

From stephen at xemacs.org  Mon Feb 29 15:49:19 2016
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2016 05:49:19 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] GSoC Project: pgp plugin
In-Reply-To: <56D42559.5010202@openmailbox.org>
References: <56D1EC55.60909@openmailbox.org>
 <CAF2AkX=7t57C_4MV098xzRqvHjcVTpoxefRjs0XwLa_Lf1TG5A@mail.gmail.com>
 <56D42559.5010202@openmailbox.org>
Message-ID: <22228.44751.314201.936153@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Jonas writes:

 > On 28.02.2016 10:30, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:

 > > End-to-end encryption or signature or both seems to be the right
 > > thing.
 > 
 > The concept of a mailserver doesn't allow real end-to-end encryption if
 > each recipient uses a different keypair.

It's true that keeping things secret from the server would be hard,
but at least in theory it would be possible to avoid decryption in
normal operation by having the originator use a "session key" and a
symmetric algorithm to do the actual encryption, and then using the
user's PGP key to encrypt the session key.  Then all you need to do is
decrypt the session key and reencrypt it with the user's (or users')
key(s).

If possible (I mean I suspect it requires privacy software that
doesn't currently exist) this would be nice because you don't have to
worry about having copies of decrypted text in memory, in swap, and in
temporary files.[1]  Of course this would mean that such an MLM could
not decorate the mail with header or footer, but you probably should
not do that anyway because of limitations of MUAs and users in
displaying/interpreting indications of what portions of a message are
secure.

 > Considering that all subscribers recieve the mail and usually
 > listserver admins are subscribers theirselves,

In security, you either need to take care of the unusual case, or
document that the case is not covered.  Wouldn't you rather have a
short list of "you can't use my software in these cases: ..."?

 > I think than an implementation where the listserver recieves a copy
 > as well definitly has some uses.

Copy of the encrypted message, maybe, although I would argue that
archiving should default to off for an encrypted list.  But decrypted,
I disagree strongly, and would do my best to block integration of such
a feature (it's Barry's call in the end, not mine).  If you really
want the server to have a decrypted copy, that is easily enough
accomplished by subscribing a decryption program to the list.  Our
goal should be to do our best to reduce the additional attack surface
presented by the MLM by default, and leave the users to their own
devices in reducing security and increasing risk.

 > Users would have to be aware that the privacy of communication
 > relies on the protection of the listserver and listserver admins
 > would have to be aware that they need to protect the lists keypair.

If there's anything we know about users, it's that they only learn
about security when they experience harm from lack of it, and even
then few actually do anything effective about it.[2]  Admins have
enough to worry about without drawing an arrow labeled "attack here"
on their system (running an encrypted list already paints a bullseye
on it).  Whenever possible, we want random clueless behavior to *not*
result in a security hole.  So yes, the private keys must be
protected.  But as much as possible we should try to ensure that if
the list server is compromised, the communications are not.

 >> [Automated key generation is out] of scope for one summer IMHO.
 >> It's not obvious what the security implications are.  Better to do
 >> key generation off-line.

 > What security implications are you refering to? Some servers have
 > true hardware rngs. If there isn't enough entropy, no keys should
 > generate with /dev/random as entropy source.  Having the proper
 > crypto libraries and random number sources is in the responsibility
 > of the user.

I'm not talking about the availability of these basic facilities.  If
the system doesn't have them, none of the necessary crypto facilities
will be available from Python anyway.  I'm talking about the
introduction of unnecessary complexity.  I don't know offhand how to
attack it.  I'm saying that before we introduce additional complexity
we need to be pretty sure that it's hard to attack.

If you want to do this, you need to learn the security mindset[3].
Otherwise, you're very likely going to leave behind bugs that someday
will bite somebody who is earnestly trying to do the right thing.

Back in the day, I set the config on Smail 3.1.0.99 to block outside-
to-outside relays, as recommended by the documentation.  I was shocked
to be informed a few weeks later that my box was being used as an open
relay.  Guess what?  They documented that feature, but the
implementation was a stub until 3.1.0.101.

 > With this concept, there will be a private key on the listserver and
 > this should be clear to the users. It has security implications but I
 > think they are admissible.

Of course there has to be a private key usable by the list server
because the whole purpose of the exercise is to avoid distribution of
all keys to all subscribers.  But stealing the keys is only one of the
many ways to get past a lock.  We need to protect the hinges on the
other side of the door, too.  The most effective way to do that is to
ensure they're not exposed in the first place.

 > > What does "trusted" mean?

 > Trusted means that the key has been marked as trusted by an authority
 > (list admin).

OK.

 > I'm not exactly sure what a threat model is.

Find out!  It's more than just a few random scenarios, I'll tell you
that much.

 > But a scenario this would protect from is eavesdropping on list
 > communication by a mailserver

How about one run by a subscriber?

 > ? or anyone in case inter-mailserver communication or access to a
 > mailbox isn't properly secured.

You can assume that SMTP is unlikely to be secured.  TLS is more
common nowadays but hardly universal.

What makes you think that users won't save decrypted messages?  You
need to document that as a threat and exclude it from those you can
protect against.

 > I don't understand, why would documentation be impossible?

Users have a habit of assuming that "secure" (or whatever favorable
adjective is involved) applies to their use case.  You need to be able
to describe the threats that are and are not defended against in
detail and very clearly.

For example, one use case that has been brought up in the past is a
mailing list that contains private conversations among a group of
patients and the group therapist.  But you can expect that in the case
of a multi-therapist clinic, they will want to share a single server
with a professional administrator.  That server's admin presumably has
access to the list keys, but you don't want that in this use case, not
even if she is one of the therapists.

Thus, you need to make it clear that this scenario (a server admin who
should not have access to the privileged conversations) is *not*
included in *your* threat model.  Server admins are necessarily
trusted, and excluded as sources of security breaches.  If you don't
clearly specify that threat model in your design, you're not going to
be able to document it well enough for users to understand.


Footnotes: 
[1]  Think "the disk was stolen".  Private keys on that disk?  Not
necessarily.  What?  That wasn't part of your threat model?  Better
say so!

[2]  Consider how many people continue to use Windows!

[3]  https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2008/03/the_security_mi_1.html


From barry at list.org  Mon Feb 29 16:16:49 2016
From: barry at list.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Mon, 29 Feb 2016 16:16:49 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Regexp filtering
In-Reply-To: <22228.40428.554323.692451@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <BLUPR01MB12364195988F44AC1C93545AADA70@BLUPR01MB1236.prod.exchangelabs.com>
 <22224.34168.628954.746288@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
 <56D0A6DC.2000903@msapiro.net>
 <22225.11769.251788.350761@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
 <20160229134112.3f41793e@subdivisions.wooz.org>
 <22228.40428.554323.692451@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <20160229161649.7d55d484@subdivisions.wooz.org>

On Mar 01, 2016, at 04:37 AM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:

>Are regexps sufficiently slow that *always* using a regexp would hurt
>performance?[1]  The model I really had in mind was to always use
>regexps, and have a flag in the UI (Postorius) to regexp-quote when
>the user wants a literal.

I think it's less about performance and more about being explicit.  My own
sense is that literals are more common than regexps, and that in general
regexps are more difficult to understand, but I don't have a lot of data
points to back that up.

>Or we could continue to have the core representation be "leading '^'
>iff regexp", and once again have Postorius prepend "^.*" or whatever.

In which case, the core's model wouldn't have to change, right?

I really want to avoid regexp-quoted strings for literals in the model.  I'm
fine if the core model doesn't change but Postorius makes things nicer for the
user.

Cheers,
-Barry
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From stephen at xemacs.org  Mon Feb 29 20:01:36 2016
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2016 10:01:36 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Regexp filtering
In-Reply-To: <20160229161649.7d55d484@subdivisions.wooz.org>
References: <BLUPR01MB12364195988F44AC1C93545AADA70@BLUPR01MB1236.prod.exchangelabs.com>
 <22224.34168.628954.746288@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
 <56D0A6DC.2000903@msapiro.net>
 <22225.11769.251788.350761@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
 <20160229134112.3f41793e@subdivisions.wooz.org>
 <22228.40428.554323.692451@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
 <20160229161649.7d55d484@subdivisions.wooz.org>
Message-ID: <22228.59888.504287.52585@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Barry Warsaw writes:
 > On Mar 01, 2016, at 04:37 AM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:

 > >Or we could continue to have the core representation be "leading '^'
 > >iff regexp", and once again have Postorius prepend "^.*" or whatever.
 > 
 > In which case, the core's model wouldn't have to change, right?

That's the point, yes!

 > I really want to avoid regexp-quoted strings for literals in the
 > model.  I'm fine if the core model doesn't change but Postorius
 > makes things nicer for the user.

OK on avoidance, you're the FLUFL after all!  If Terri or Florian
doesn't pipe up with total hate soon (== by the time I getta round
tuit), I'll file a feature request.

Steve