From ankush.sharma.ece12 at iitbhu.ac.in  Thu Jul  2 20:17:08 2015
From: ankush.sharma.ece12 at iitbhu.ac.in (Ankush Sharma)
Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2015 23:47:08 +0530
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] [GSOC'15] Mid term blog report
Message-ID: <CAE8zidS+QtgRQSOSRb9_SpPKwuzeWFftbCUs8NaLTMk7r4AnNg@mail.gmail.com>

Hello everyone,

I have put up a blog post regarding my GSoC project *Mailman Client in
JS. *Interested
people can follow this link :

http://black-perl.me/black-perl-gsoc-with-mailman-mid-term-report

Expecting feedback from your side !

Thanks,
Ankush Sharma
IIT-BHU, Varanasi
http://black-perl.me

From tokencolour at gmail.com  Mon Jul  6 20:25:10 2015
From: tokencolour at gmail.com (Tanu Hari Dixit)
Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2015 23:55:10 +0530
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Regarding contribution to mailman
Message-ID: <CALSj5vzKXE-0MBEzc4KGVN677xumie31_-FAkT0Sku_bWjEQmg@mail.gmail.com>

Hello everyone,
I am Tanu Hari Dixit, a third year student at Indian Institute of
Technology, Banaras Hindu University, India, studying Electronics
Engineering. I have a little experience of making an API( Application
Programming Interface) that works as a journey planner.  The API also
incorporated a client side coded in PyQt4. The back-end development was
done using Python, Flask and Beautiful Soup.
I wish to contribute to the wonderful foundation. I am new to open source
and would be highly obliged if someone guides me about how to begin.
Thanks!
Tanu Hari Dixit.

From mark at msapiro.net  Tue Jul  7 06:06:43 2015
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 06 Jul 2015 21:06:43 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Regarding contribution to mailman
In-Reply-To: <CALSj5vzKXE-0MBEzc4KGVN677xumie31_-FAkT0Sku_bWjEQmg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALSj5vzKXE-0MBEzc4KGVN677xumie31_-FAkT0Sku_bWjEQmg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <559B5053.3070703@msapiro.net>

On 07/06/2015 11:25 AM, Tanu Hari Dixit wrote:
> Hello everyone,
> I am Tanu Hari Dixit, a third year student at Indian Institute of
> Technology, Banaras Hindu University, India, studying Electronics
> Engineering. I have a little experience of making an API( Application
> Programming Interface) that works as a journey planner.  The API also
> incorporated a client side coded in PyQt4. The back-end development was
> done using Python, Flask and Beautiful Soup.
> I wish to contribute to the wonderful foundation. I am new to open source
> and would be highly obliged if someone guides me about how to begin.


Welcome.

You can start at <http://wiki.list.org/DEV/Home>. Then come back here
with questions, ideas, whatever.

There is also an IRC channel, #mailman, on freenode where you might find
help.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From terri at toybox.ca  Tue Jul  7 19:52:58 2015
From: terri at toybox.ca (Terri Oda)
Date: Tue, 07 Jul 2015 10:52:58 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] [GSOC'15] Mid term blog report
In-Reply-To: <CAE8zidS+QtgRQSOSRb9_SpPKwuzeWFftbCUs8NaLTMk7r4AnNg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAE8zidS+QtgRQSOSRb9_SpPKwuzeWFftbCUs8NaLTMk7r4AnNg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <559C11FA.8030800@toybox.ca>

On 2015-07-02 11:17 AM, Ankush Sharma wrote:
> Hello everyone,
>
> I have put up a blog post regarding my GSoC project *Mailman Client in
> JS. *Interested
> people can follow this link :
>
> http://black-perl.me/black-perl-gsoc-with-mailman-mid-term-report
>
> Expecting feedback from your side !

You mention that a bunch of the tests are failing due to code changes. 
Is this something the rest of us can help you out on?  There's no 
requirement in GSoC that you write and fix every single test personally, 
and sometimes test fixes are tasks suitable for people who want a small, 
self-contained contribution opportunity or a quick thing to do.  Would 
these maybe be something like that, or would you need to understand your 
code really deeply to work on the fixes?

  Terri



From ankush.sharma.ece12 at iitbhu.ac.in  Tue Jul  7 20:42:17 2015
From: ankush.sharma.ece12 at iitbhu.ac.in (Ankush Sharma)
Date: Wed, 8 Jul 2015 00:12:17 +0530
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] [GSOC'15] Mid term blog report
In-Reply-To: <559C11FA.8030800@toybox.ca>
References: <CAE8zidS+QtgRQSOSRb9_SpPKwuzeWFftbCUs8NaLTMk7r4AnNg@mail.gmail.com>
 <559C11FA.8030800@toybox.ca>
Message-ID: <CAE8zidTCEQu41P9nHOpOnnYsir2PuWCaN7gHkR-bXEjYmKN=pQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

Thanks Terri for giving feedback on the report. I have written the tests
from scratch for the implementation of the mailman-client in JS. So, I got
to a point where I need to do a bit of refactoring to the code base to
remove some redundant logic. Due to this some minor issues are coming with
the testing.
Yeah, I agree with you that these things could provide opportunities for
beginners. So, I will try to work on the tough one's first that require
deeper understanding of code and later on may be the easy ones' or may be
leave them for beginners.

Thanks,
Ankush Sharma
https://black-perl.me

On Tue, Jul 7, 2015 at 11:22 PM, Terri Oda <terri at toybox.ca> wrote:

> On 2015-07-02 11:17 AM, Ankush Sharma wrote:
>
>> Hello everyone,
>>
>> I have put up a blog post regarding my GSoC project *Mailman Client in
>> JS. *Interested
>> people can follow this link :
>>
>> http://black-perl.me/black-perl-gsoc-with-mailman-mid-term-report
>>
>> Expecting feedback from your side !
>>
>
> You mention that a bunch of the tests are failing due to code changes. Is
> this something the rest of us can help you out on?  There's no requirement
> in GSoC that you write and fix every single test personally, and sometimes
> test fixes are tasks suitable for people who want a small, self-contained
> contribution opportunity or a quick thing to do.  Would these maybe be
> something like that, or would you need to understand your code really
> deeply to work on the fixes?
>
>  Terri
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Mailman-Developers mailing list
> Mailman-Developers at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers
> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
> Searchable Archives:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-developers%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe:
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-developers/ankush.sharma.ece12%40itbhu.ac.in
>
> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
>

From barry at list.org  Wed Jul  8 03:26:16 2015
From: barry at list.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Tue, 7 Jul 2015 21:26:16 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Update 2.1 - Functional Threads, Handler,
 Rule and Runner
In-Reply-To: <CAE2E6mke3Oygqb9-eKyAXqOTQB410BoQTV7hWx=Y4D197P7r5w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAE2E6mke3Oygqb9-eKyAXqOTQB410BoQTV7hWx=Y4D197P7r5w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20150707212616.5096113d@anarchist.wooz.org>

On Jun 25, 2015, at 07:18 PM, Pranjal Yadav wrote:

>I recently posted my "Pre-Mid-Term" report on my blog

A great read, thanks for posting the update!

Cheers,
-Barry

From godricglow at gmail.com  Wed Jul  8 08:02:46 2015
From: godricglow at gmail.com (Pranjal Yadav)
Date: Wed, 8 Jul 2015 11:32:46 +0530
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Update 3.0 Important Implementation Change
Message-ID: <CAE2E6m=1X01bA4qdPThtMCxsUVjkgVm_S=eJ6PuFbBJEZxE+Dg@mail.gmail.com>

Hello
I'm writing this email to notify one major change in the implementation
which I learned last weekend, as Steve mentioned earlier, it would be
pretty hard for users to type in bulky Subjects/Tos in the message which is
a primary need for me to assess messages as dlist messages or not with a
follow up thread info to be extracted. To get rid of that I used the thread
id (which is generated for a particular thread depending upon the newness
of the thread) and wrapped it around with list name and web host and added
that to Reply-To so that a user can easily choose that option and the bulky
content is autogenerated. However while coming up with this solution I
missed an important detail i.e. how the lmtp runner would respond to such a
'To'.  So I modified the split_recipient method in lmtp after discussing
few things with barry and currently I can accept
listaname+HASH-request at domain,  where HASH is my thread id which is
typically a sha1 hexdigest and the request part is as before. Later I will
be adding tests to check the HASH part with relevant test cases. So sending
a pull request will take a little longer than expected since I need to re
do my rules with some other changes. Although its a little bump and will
not hinder my work for long, I think its a crucial one too and needs your
attention before going ahead. Please feel free to reply when ever you find
time.

I understand that its not easy to workout or check things which are working
and which aren't since there is no documentation yet, I request you to be
patient and spend a little time with my shell logs from previous blog
posts, I have made it similar to the mailman documentation and anybody who
had earlier gone through the documentation can easily catch up.

I also take this opportunity to thank Stephen, Terri, Florian, Barry &
Abhilash for being a constant support as I cleared the mid term evaluation
recently. I am looking forward for some code reviews soon!

From eric at linuxfoundation.org  Thu Jul  9 02:13:45 2015
From: eric at linuxfoundation.org (Eric Searcy)
Date: Wed, 08 Jul 2015 17:13:45 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] REST API speed
Message-ID: <559DBCB9.70607@linuxfoundation.org>

I'm curious about how the REST interface scales out.  I've posted a bug
to Gitlab about Postorius making a REST request for every list member on
the list info page [1], but aside from waiting for a fix for that, I've
also been looking more into the performance of the Mailman3 REST
interface itself.

Testing with siege (15 concurrent users) on a production VM, I get 29
requests/sec and a concurrency of just 1.3x requesting the
"/3.0/domains" URL.  For "/3.0/system/versions" I get only about 0.2x
concurrency.  This may not scale too well to a very active Postorius,
especially if 1 Postorious request results in many Mailman API requests.

Is anyone using anything besides wsgiref for the REST interface?
(uwsgi, gunicorn, ?)  I thought I could get some extra performance that
way...

Eric

[1] https://gitlab.com/mailman/postorius/issues/25

-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: signature.asc
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 801 bytes
Desc: OpenPGP digital signature
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-developers/attachments/20150708/bb69b944/attachment.sig>

From barry at list.org  Fri Jul 10 00:26:15 2015
From: barry at list.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Thu, 9 Jul 2015 18:26:15 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] REST API speed
In-Reply-To: <559DBCB9.70607@linuxfoundation.org>
References: <559DBCB9.70607@linuxfoundation.org>
Message-ID: <20150709182615.73237aa9@anarchist.wooz.org>

On Jul 08, 2015, at 05:13 PM, Eric Searcy wrote:

>Testing with siege (15 concurrent users) on a production VM, I get 29
>requests/sec and a concurrency of just 1.3x requesting the
>"/3.0/domains" URL.  For "/3.0/system/versions" I get only about 0.2x
>concurrency.  This may not scale too well to a very active Postorius,
>especially if 1 Postorious request results in many Mailman API requests.
>
>Is anyone using anything besides wsgiref for the REST interface?
>(uwsgi, gunicorn, ?)  I thought I could get some extra performance that
>way...

You're probably the first person to experiment with this, so please let us
know how it goes.  If you get one of the alternative wsgi servers working and
it improves things, please do contribute some documentation.  I'd definitely
like for this to be a viable option.  wsgiref is there because it's all
stdlib.

Cheers,
-Barry
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 819 bytes
Desc: OpenPGP digital signature
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-developers/attachments/20150709/a7d3c44a/attachment.sig>

From andrew.stuart at supercoders.com.au  Fri Jul 10 02:47:11 2015
From: andrew.stuart at supercoders.com.au (Andrew Stuart)
Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2015 10:47:11 +1000
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] REST API speed
In-Reply-To: <20150709182615.73237aa9@anarchist.wooz.org>
References: <559DBCB9.70607@linuxfoundation.org>
 <20150709182615.73237aa9@anarchist.wooz.org>
Message-ID: <C432E18D-9A89-44E0-A2E8-2F1BA75A9175@supercoders.com.au>

I?ve fumbled around here to see if I can make it work with gunicorn.

Correct me if I?m wrong but effectively gunicorn would need to run the rest server within itself, so it would be necessary to run the rest server outside the mailman runners? I?m not sure how to do so.

rest/wsgiapp.py says:

# Both the REST server and the signal handlers must run in the main
# thread; the former because of SQLite requirements (objects created
# in one thread cannot be shared with the other threads), and the
# latter because of Python's signal handling semantics.



rest/wsgiapp.py also has the following function which seems to be the right wsgi app function to pass into gunicorn. I couldn?t find the right incantation to get it to run standlone.


def make_application():
    """Create the WSGI application.

    Use this if you want to integrate Mailman's REST server with your own WSGI
    server.
    """
    return RootedAPI(Root())

From barry at list.org  Fri Jul 10 16:43:32 2015
From: barry at list.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2015 10:43:32 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] REST API speed
In-Reply-To: <C432E18D-9A89-44E0-A2E8-2F1BA75A9175@supercoders.com.au>
References: <559DBCB9.70607@linuxfoundation.org>
 <20150709182615.73237aa9@anarchist.wooz.org>
 <C432E18D-9A89-44E0-A2E8-2F1BA75A9175@supercoders.com.au>
Message-ID: <20150710104332.7daf68ff@anarchist.wooz.org>

On Jul 10, 2015, at 10:47 AM, Andrew Stuart wrote:

>Correct me if I?m wrong but effectively gunicorn would need to run the rest
>server within itself, so it would be necessary to run the rest server outside
>the mailman runners? I?m not sure how to do so.

Most of the RESTRunner is probably not applicable to the gunicorn case.
Runners themselves are forked from the master watcher, so the warnings about
threads is there solely because we have to run the .server_forever() call in a
separate thread within the rest runner process, otherwise the main thread will
block and we won't be able to use the Runner infrastructure to kill it when
`mailman stop` is issued.

># Both the REST server and the signal handlers must run in the main
># thread; the former because of SQLite requirements (objects created
># in one thread cannot be shared with the other threads), and the
># latter because of Python's signal handling semantics.

I'm honestly not sure that SQLite restriction is applicable any more, at least
for this particular case.  Maybe it was once when we were using Storm.  But I
think it's generally acknowledged that production systems should probably be
backed by a client/server database, although SQLite may work fine for smaller
sites.

>rest/wsgiapp.py also has the following function which seems to be the right
>wsgi app function to pass into gunicorn. I couldn?t find the right
>incantation to get it to run standlone.
>
>def make_application():
>    """Create the WSGI application.
>
>    Use this if you want to integrate Mailman's REST server with your own WSGI
>    server.
>    """
>    return RootedAPI(Root())

The intention is that this would work; what problems have you seen?

My thinking is that a gunicorn -or other external wsgi server- based REST
runner wouldn't do much more than run gunicorn with the proper commands in a
subprocess, and manage its PID so that the runner itself could response to
`mailman stop` and `restart` commands.

If that works, I could see adding runner subclasses to runners/rest.py such
that a site could change `[runner.rest]class` in their mailman.cfg file to
select say the gunicorn based REST server over the default wsgiref one.

Cheers,
-Barry
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 819 bytes
Desc: OpenPGP digital signature
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-developers/attachments/20150710/3050540d/attachment.sig>

From bennetch at gmail.com  Fri Jul 10 18:39:10 2015
From: bennetch at gmail.com (Isaac Bennetch)
Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2015 12:39:10 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] MM3/HyperKitty and importing Malman2 lists
Message-ID: <559FF52E.9000702@gmail.com>



Hi,

Thanks for the good work bringing us Mailman3. I'm doing a new install,
which is intended to import data from a different server which had been
running Mailman2. I've used the mailman-bundler to install and have a
few questions. At this point, I'm still using the SQLite backend but
have hopes of using MySQL (the server already has MySQL but not
PostgreSQL, and the manual seems to imply that sticking with SQLite may
not be ideal).

I'm currently attempting to import the old mbox into Hyperkitty[0],
which I think I've adapted in to

> ./bin/django-admin hyperkitty-import --pythonpath
eggs/HyperKitty-1.0.1-py2.7.egg/hyperkitty/ -l testing at example.org
/home/mailman/old-list.mbox

Which doesn't say much (full output below[1]), but didn't fully work.
Out of approximately 18300 messages, only six are visible to me through
the "Mailing-List Archives" web page, and one of them has a very strange
date. It is the second message of the mbox, from 9 Apr 2001, but appears
in the web page with approximately the date/time of the import: 9 July
2015  7:27 p.m. Additionally, the remaining five messages are all the
most recent -- with the exception of the most recent message not
appearing at all.

Additionally, if I use the Search box to search for a word that I know
appears in (at least) one message, I get no results found.

I feel I'm missing something here, any idea what it could be?

Furthermore, I haven't found any substantial documentation on importing
a subscriber list from Mailman2; is there anything that will allow me to
transfer subscribers, their digest preference, and so on without
requiring them all to resubscribe manually?

Thanks in advance,
~isaac


0 - https://hyperkitty.readthedocs.org/en/latest/development.html

1 -
> Importing from mbox file /home/mailman/old-list.mbox to
testing at example.org
> /No 'Message-Id' header in email from None about None
> -No 'Message-Id' header in email from None about None
> \No 'Message-Id' header in email from None about None
> |No 'Message-Id' header in email from None about None
> /No 'Message-Id' header in email from None about None
> -No 'Message-Id' header in email from None about None
> \No 'Message-Id' header in email from None about None
> |No 'Message-Id' header in email from None about None
> /No 'Message-Id' header in email from None about None
> -No 'Message-Id' header in email from None about None
> \No 'Message-Id' header in email from None about None
> |No 'Message-Id' header in email from None about None
> Computing thread structure
> Synchronizing properties with Mailman
>
/usr/local/src/mailman-bundler/eggs/Django-1.7.8-py2.7.egg/django/db/models/fields/__init__.py:1282:
RuntimeWarning: DateTimeField MailingList.created_at received a naive
datetime (2015-07-04 14:30:22.803087) while time zone support is active.
>   RuntimeWarning)
>
> WARNING
/usr/local/src/mailman-bundler/eggs/Django-1.7.8-py2.7.egg/django/db/models/fields/__init__.py:1282:
RuntimeWarning: DateTimeField MailingList.created_at received a naive
datetime (2015-07-04 14:30:22.803087) while time zone support is active.
>   RuntimeWarning)
>
> The full-text search index will be updated every minute. Run the
'manage.py runjob update_index' command to update it now.



From barry at python.org  Fri Jul 10 20:16:17 2015
From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2015 14:16:17 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] REST API speed
References: <559DBCB9.70607@linuxfoundation.org>
 <20150709182615.73237aa9@anarchist.wooz.org>
 <C432E18D-9A89-44E0-A2E8-2F1BA75A9175@supercoders.com.au>
 <20150710104332.7daf68ff@anarchist.wooz.org>
Message-ID: <20150710141617.20f783c7@anarchist.wooz.org>

On Jul 10, 2015, at 10:43 AM, Barry Warsaw wrote:

>My thinking is that a gunicorn -or other external wsgi server- based REST
>runner wouldn't do much more than run gunicorn with the proper commands in a
>subprocess, and manage its PID so that the runner itself could response to
>`mailman stop` and `restart` commands.

I took a slightly different approach.  Basically don't start gunicorn with
`mailman start` but start it in a shell after the main system is up and
running.  Here's a very experimental and almost completely untested branch
that could get you started:

https://gitlab.com/warsaw/mailman/tree/gunicorn

Read the docstring in this commit for details.

https://gitlab.com/warsaw/mailman/commit/3fbfde8793c9c5bf12b0f250a58b3e3134f77ebb

Cheers,
-Barry
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 819 bytes
Desc: OpenPGP digital signature
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-developers/attachments/20150710/662428ea/attachment.sig>

From andrew.stuart at supercoders.com.au  Sat Jul 11 06:18:52 2015
From: andrew.stuart at supercoders.com.au (Andrew Stuart)
Date: Sat, 11 Jul 2015 14:18:52 +1000
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Is there a way to get list of server_owners
	from REST API?
Message-ID: <BCADFA13-13BA-4EE6-BDBA-DC8EA4FD512B@supercoders.com.au>

I can see it is possible to make a user a ?server_owner?.

Thus I can check a user to see if they are a server_owner.

Is there a way to get a list of all server_owners?

thanks

From barry at list.org  Sat Jul 11 06:24:32 2015
From: barry at list.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Sat, 11 Jul 2015 00:24:32 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Is there a way to get list of
 server_owners from REST API?
In-Reply-To: <BCADFA13-13BA-4EE6-BDBA-DC8EA4FD512B@supercoders.com.au>
References: <BCADFA13-13BA-4EE6-BDBA-DC8EA4FD512B@supercoders.com.au>
Message-ID: <20150711002432.19bff2a4@anarchist.wooz.org>

On Jul 11, 2015, at 02:18 PM, Andrew Stuart wrote:

>Is there a way to get a list of all server_owners?

Not currently without iterating over all users.

Maybe there should be a resource like /users/server_owners?

That should be pretty easy to implement.

Cheers,
-Barry

From andrew.stuart at supercoders.com.au  Sat Jul 11 06:38:30 2015
From: andrew.stuart at supercoders.com.au (Andrew Stuart)
Date: Sat, 11 Jul 2015 14:38:30 +1000
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Is there a way to get list of
	server_owners from REST API?
In-Reply-To: <20150711002432.19bff2a4@anarchist.wooz.org>
References: <BCADFA13-13BA-4EE6-BDBA-DC8EA4FD512B@supercoders.com.au>
 <20150711002432.19bff2a4@anarchist.wooz.org>
Message-ID: <CAB0AE13-236E-4FB1-BA44-EA68E2B6E084@supercoders.com.au>

I don?t think I need it right now - I?m doing authorisation stuff and I think I always know the user in question.

But I can imagine that people writing applications might like to be able to get a complete list of people with server_owner rights, so it would be woth adding at some point.

Yes either at /users/server_owners or some endpoint relating to system/configuration/server_owners perhaps. 

as


On 11 Jul 2015, at 2:24 pm, Barry Warsaw <barry at list.org> wrote:

On Jul 11, 2015, at 02:18 PM, Andrew Stuart wrote:

> Is there a way to get a list of all server_owners?

Not currently without iterating over all users.

Maybe there should be a resource like /users/server_owners?

That should be pretty easy to implement.

Cheers,
-Barry
_______________________________________________
Mailman-Developers mailing list
Mailman-Developers at python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-developers%40python.org/
Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-developers/andrew.stuart%40supercoders.com.au

Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9


From godricglow at gmail.com  Sat Jul 11 14:37:43 2015
From: godricglow at gmail.com (Pranjal Yadav)
Date: Sat, 11 Jul 2015 18:07:43 +0530
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Update 3.1 Implementation details,
	changes and request for code review
Message-ID: <CAE2E6mmBs=LUYHB-tT4vsQ-GAtLbo0ssPtzKqnO_0t9JKrbffQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hello

I recently added another post in my blog as post mid term report. I have
added all implementation details and changes made so far, I request you to
go through it when ever you find time and kindly update me for any changes
required.

Blog: prany.github.io

From andrew.stuart at supercoders.com.au  Sun Jul 12 07:20:53 2015
From: andrew.stuart at supercoders.com.au (Andrew Stuart)
Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2015 15:20:53 +1000
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] is_server_owner set to true regardless of
	value posted
Message-ID: <CF5695A4-3E56-4EF0-BFAD-44FC9A9C4B99@supercoders.com.au>

As far as I can tell, when creating users, if the is_server_owner field is provided in the POST data, then it will always be set to true. Is this the intended behaviour? I was trying to create users and explcitly setting it to False and wondering why they were being created as server_owners anyway.

I suppose this is a security issue although I imagine its unlikely any applications are using that field yet. The potential problem I suppose is that in the field there may be installations in which users created via POST have is_server_owner set to true.

See the commands below to see the problem in action:

# DELETE user to make sure its not present
(venv3.4)ubuntu at mail:~/mailmania$ curl -X DELETE --header "authorization: Basic cmVzdGFkbWluOnJlc3RwYXNz" http://localhost:8001/3.0/users/mailmanadmin at example.org

# create user via POST with POSTed field value is_server_owner=anyoldvaluewilldo
(venv3.4)ubuntu at mail:~/mailmania$ curl -X POST --data "email=mailmanadmin at example.org" --data "display_name=displayname" --data "is_server_owner=anyoldvaluewilldo" --header "authorization: Basic cmVzdGFkbWluOnJlc3RwYXNz" http://localhost:8001/3.0/users


# GET user - you can now see that is_server_owner is true
(venv3.4)ubuntu at mail:~/mailmania$ curl --header "authorization: Basic cmVzdGFkbWluOnJlc3RwYXNz" http://localhost:8001/3.0/users/mailmanadmin at example.org
{"display_name": "displayname", "password": "$6$rounds=105489$ToJ.XV3yw0Mvee8r$pbMEE/6e1Xw8PPOunQGX1IL21NmNLrSwl3VFwZNtsoxwCjZ7iWZ.SjDmX7rs9nlM7pglz54GFjB8hmn.rOI.d/", "http_etag": "\"7891a3ea8a2c71a67e738aede9b9d2cfbf438073\"", "user_id": 264084494277271879132250546838180918030, "self_link": "http://localhost:8001/3.0/users/264084494277271879132250546838180918030", "created_on": "2015-07-12T05:08:07.320945", "is_server_owner": true}

# DELETE user to make sure its not present
(venv3.4)ubuntu at mail:~/mailmania$ curl -X DELETE --header "authorization: Basic cmVzdGFkbWluOnJlc3RwYXNz" http://localhost:8001/3.0/users/mailmanadmin at example.org

# create user via POST without any POSTed field value for is_server_owner
(venv3.4)ubuntu at mail:~/mailmania$ curl -X POST --data "email=mailmanadmin at example.org" --data "display_name=displayname" --header "authorization: Basic cmVzdGFkbWluOnJlc3RwYXNz" http://localhost:8001/3.0/users

# GET user - you can now see that is_server_owner is false
(venv3.4)ubuntu at mail:~/mailmania$ curl --header "authorization: Basic cmVzdGFkbWluOnJlc3RwYXNz" http://localhost:8001/3.0/users
{"total_size": 2, "start": 0, "entries": [{"display_name": "Insecure Testuser", "password": "$6$rounds=107421$p9wIIl6zAEHEe5ZC$JH0MhieMJr8URXGsQ5I6zLa3l4whbRsMhjKOntfDlxOrfstxaRvlMgPvuEYU05ptNnSJdSnB43Elw0zAshFux1", "http_etag": "\"6394e37e623cbfa20445201f091c4aabaaa01340\"", "user_id": 309469782534072420914095048754305489000, "self_link": "http://localhost:8001/3.0/users/309469782534072420914095048754305489000", "created_on": "2015-07-12T04:49:17.499529", "is_server_owner": true}, {"display_name": "displayname", "password": "$6$rounds=98938$pOH6NcMh5RN1mNs0$8wUWsaEXVaqiA6z/B2qTXIYVDMVMunzaMmWCL3JmxL/EnknA4A0PFisJZA0VcDOzY0KqiU2sljlBPXuNrEypl.", "http_etag": "\"3c81af299b5b36b104d9c7066fed63273a72bf48\"", "user_id": 176959263898569148772584820722098620353, "self_link": "http://localhost:8001/3.0/users/176959263898569148772584820722098620353", "created_on": "2015-07-12T05:09:12.043209", "is_server_owner": false}], "http_etag": "\"943acca65a65afd2c1c40b6fc1e010b337e1bad6\?"}







From barry at list.org  Sun Jul 12 18:08:21 2015
From: barry at list.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2015 12:08:21 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] is_server_owner set to true regardless of
 value posted
In-Reply-To: <CF5695A4-3E56-4EF0-BFAD-44FC9A9C4B99@supercoders.com.au>
References: <CF5695A4-3E56-4EF0-BFAD-44FC9A9C4B99@supercoders.com.au>
Message-ID: <20150712120821.2b80b33c@anarchist.wooz.org>

On Jul 12, 2015, at 03:20 PM, Andrew Stuart wrote:

>As far as I can tell, when creating users, if the is_server_owner field is
>provided in the POST data, then it will always be set to true.

This is a straight up bug.  In src/mailman/rest/users.py, in CREATION_FIELDS,
is_server_owner converts using bool, but non-empty strings are always true.
It should be as_boolean, which comes from lazr.config and interprets only
certain string values as true (e.g. 'yes', 'true') and everything else as
false.

Should be an easy fix.  Care to submit a bug report?  It's an easy fix for
anyone who wants to contribute a little merge request.  It will have to be
fixed on both the master and release-3.0 branches, but I'm happy to back port
a fix from master.

Cheers,
-Barry

From stephen at xemacs.org  Mon Jul 13 03:47:45 2015
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2015 10:47:45 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Mailman 3 status
Message-ID: <871tgchlq6.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Hi, Mailman Users!

Executive summary: In my opinion, Mailman 3 is ready for use in
production, but still requires skills and system accesses over and
above those required by Mailman 2.  Both in principle and in practice,
questions about Mailman 3 should be directed to the Mailman Developers
list (preferred) or the #mailman channel on Freenode IRC (where there
is an intermittent presence of relevant developers).

Note to Mailman Developers: Reply-To set to Mailman Developers.  If
I've made any misstatements that Mailman Users needs to know about,
make sure your post is addressed appropriately to Mailman-Users.

What Mailman 3 has
------------------

Mailman 3 has a pretty complete reimplementation of Mailman 2
functionality with a few exceptions.  However, the implementation has
been radically redesigned, dividing responsibility for Mailman
services into

- Mailman core: managing user databases and message redistribution

- Mailman client: the Python API for interacting with the core, which
  actually communicates via HTTP using a RESTful protocol

- Postorius: the web interface for managing sites (including virtual
  hosts), lists, and subscriptions

- HyperKitty: the list archive manager

For the exceptions, please see the release announcement or for details
ask on Mailman Developers.

Note: we consider the functionality provided by the modules listed
above to be quite robust already.  We're not ready to say you should
migrate your 24x7 security announcement list of 100,000 subscribers to
Mailman 3 yet, but Mailman 3 is already serving many discussion lists
successfully, and the number is increasing at a satisfactory pace.

What Mailman 3 lacks so far
---------------------------

- The "topics" feature.

- Ports of most Mailman 2 add-ons and commonly-used patches.

- Performance measurements.  There are theoretical reasons to believe
  that under certain circumstances a "large" Mailman 3 under "heavy"
  use *might* suffer bottlenecks, but we just don't know yet.

- A Mailman 2 to Mailman 3 migration story.  We know what to do, and
  we can tell you how to do it.  It's not hard for simple Mailman 2
  installations with a few discussion lists, but it's not automatic.

- A "simple" installation story.  Because Mailman is now divided into
  three separate projects ("client" is closely bound to "core") with
  separate development groups and release cycles, installation has
  become more complex.  It is still recommended that users install
  recent versions with the latest bugfixes (and for special needs,
  even more recent versions with feature improvements) from the VCS
  repository on GitLab.

  We do have the "Mailman Bundler" script which automates the process,
  but it is as yet lightly tested, and mostly in use by experienced
  system administrators rather than "mom and pop" list owners.  Some
  users have experienced a bit of frustration, although so far we've
  been able to provide workarounds "on the spot", and quickly improve
  the scripts.  Often these improvements are provided by users, which
  indicates the level of experience of typical testers.

  As yet there are no packages for Mailman 3 in "stable" or "long term
  support" releases of OS distros, so that avenue is also closed to
  folks who don't want to be "guinea pigs" (ie, early stage beta
  testers for installation and migration).

- Hosting service (cPanel etc) integration.

- User-tested documentation.  Again, most of our beta testers are
  experienced system admins.  Very likely they are reading between the
  lines for details that people whose administration experience is
  limited to Mailman lists, probably on a cPanel system, won't get.

- A support system on Mailman-Users.  I'm sure you all are well-aware
  of how spoiled you are to get support from Mark Sapiro, with
  occasional contributions from users and other developers.  Mark is
  still the lead developer on Mailman 2, and has not yet gotten a lot
  of experience with Mailman 3.  We do not have an equivalent person
  for Mailman 3 yet, although there are several developers any of whom
  might grow into that role.[1]  You still really need to contact the
  developers directly:

  - Mailman Developers <mailman-developers at python.org>

  - #mailman channel on Freenode IRC.

Note: the "lacks" column will be mostly a barrier to non-system-
admins, but of course may be a strong "not quite yet" signal even to
experienced admins.

What Mailman 3 will have after GSoC
-----------------------------------

- An experimental implementation of Dynamic Sublists, which aims at a
  substantial improvement in functionality over the "topics" feature
  of Mailman 2.

- An experimental implementation of a client based on Node.js,
  allowing web frameworks based on Node.js to talk directly to Mailman
  3.

- One or more primitive Mailman 2 to Mailman 3 migration stories.

Note: Integration of these features will probably happen on VCS
branches in September to October, and will be considered ready for
beta use in version 3.1.

What Mailman 3 plans for users in version 3.1
---------------------------------------------

- A simple installation story, probably based on the current "Mailman
  Bundler".

- A simple 2to3 migration story.  Since we don't have any scripts yet,
  this will still be considered experimental/direct user suppport
  needed for Mailman 3.1.  "Our experienced staff will be on call."
  (At least on the Mailman Developers list.  I personally will push
  for attention to Mailman Users as well.  Finally, there has been a
  suggestion of "mailman3-users", also -- watch for details in the
  release announcement :-).

- Improved list-owner-oriented documentation.

A final note
------------

The information provided above is accurate to the best of my ability,
but it has not been checked by the responsible developers.  It is
provided in hope of may be of use to those considering installation of
Mailman 3.  If you're still on the fence after reading this post,
please do get more accurate information from the responsible
developers on the Mailman Developers list.

Footnotes: 
[1]  I really can't speak with authority here; this is my impression
though.


From danil at smirnov.la  Mon Jul 13 08:03:06 2015
From: danil at smirnov.la (Danil Smirnov)
Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2015 09:03:06 +0300
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Mailman 3 status
In-Reply-To: <871tgchlq6.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <871tgchlq6.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <CAMrrXbokCF-tyTVEdVYF3rpL8ZSJjOjBbnEmWL8qNrTAMG8Cyg@mail.gmail.com>

Thank you for your observation, Stephen!

2015-07-13 4:47 GMT+03:00 Stephen J. Turnbull <stephen at xemacs.org>:
> What Mailman 3 lacks so far
> ---------------------------
>
> - The "topics" feature.
>
> - Ports of most Mailman 2 add-ons and commonly-used patches.

Do I correctly understand that Mailman 3 also does not include Usenet
gateway support yet?

Danil

From barry at list.org  Mon Jul 13 15:37:15 2015
From: barry at list.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2015 09:37:15 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Is there a way to get list of
 server_owners from REST API?
In-Reply-To: <CAB0AE13-236E-4FB1-BA44-EA68E2B6E084@supercoders.com.au>
References: <BCADFA13-13BA-4EE6-BDBA-DC8EA4FD512B@supercoders.com.au>
 <20150711002432.19bff2a4@anarchist.wooz.org>
 <CAB0AE13-236E-4FB1-BA44-EA68E2B6E084@supercoders.com.au>
Message-ID: <20150713093715.0063903d@anarchist.wooz.org>

On Jul 11, 2015, at 02:38 PM, Andrew Stuart wrote:

>But I can imagine that people writing applications might like to be able to
>get a complete list of people with server_owner rights, so it would be woth
>adding at some point.

Can you file a bug on gitlab?

Cheers,
-Barry
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 819 bytes
Desc: OpenPGP digital signature
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-developers/attachments/20150713/ac3f1c3f/attachment.sig>

From mark at msapiro.net  Mon Jul 13 15:58:02 2015
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2015 06:58:02 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Mailman 3 status
In-Reply-To: <CAMrrXbokCF-tyTVEdVYF3rpL8ZSJjOjBbnEmWL8qNrTAMG8Cyg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <871tgchlq6.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
 <CAMrrXbokCF-tyTVEdVYF3rpL8ZSJjOjBbnEmWL8qNrTAMG8Cyg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <55A3C3EA.70005@msapiro.net>

On 7/12/15 11:03 PM, Danil Smirnov wrote:
> 
> Do I correctly understand that Mailman 3 also does not include Usenet
> gateway support yet?


The mail list to Usenet gateway is in the MM 3 core and should work to
gate messages from the mail list to Usenet. The 'gate_news'
functionality to gate messages from Usenet to the mail list is not
implemented yet.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From barry at python.org  Mon Jul 13 16:00:12 2015
From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2015 10:00:12 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Mailman 3 status
In-Reply-To: <871tgchlq6.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <871tgchlq6.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <20150713100012.148de5ff@anarchist.wooz.org>

On Jul 13, 2015, at 10:47 AM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:

>- Performance measurements.  There are theoretical reasons to believe
>  that under certain circumstances a "large" Mailman 3 under "heavy"
>  use *might* suffer bottlenecks, but we just don't know yet.

Note that the message delivery subsystem, while modernized and ported to
Python 3, is largely inherited from Mailman 2, which means that reliability
and performance *of message delivery* should be about the same.

Over in mailman-developers we've had some discussion about performance of the
REST server, which by default gets vended by Python 3's stdlib wsgiref module
and probably would be improved by a better wsgi application server such as
gunicorn.  Follow ups to -developers on that topic please.

>The information provided above is accurate to the best of my ability,
>but it has not been checked by the responsible developers.  It is
>provided in hope of may be of use to those considering installation of
>Mailman 3.  If you're still on the fence after reading this post,
>please do get more accurate information from the responsible
>developers on the Mailman Developers list.

You did good, Steve! :)

Cheers,
-Barry

From barry at list.org  Mon Jul 13 16:02:07 2015
From: barry at list.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2015 10:02:07 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Mailman 3 status
In-Reply-To: <55A3C3EA.70005@msapiro.net>
References: <871tgchlq6.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
 <CAMrrXbokCF-tyTVEdVYF3rpL8ZSJjOjBbnEmWL8qNrTAMG8Cyg@mail.gmail.com>
 <55A3C3EA.70005@msapiro.net>
Message-ID: <20150713100207.7f68a654@anarchist.wooz.org>

On Jul 13, 2015, at 06:58 AM, Mark Sapiro wrote:

>The mail list to Usenet gateway is in the MM 3 core and should work to
>gate messages from the mail list to Usenet. The 'gate_news'
>functionality to gate messages from Usenet to the mail list is not
>implemented yet.

Technically, the MM2/Python2 version of gate_news.py is still in the tree, but
in the 'port_me' directory.  IOW, it hasn't been ported to Python 3 or Mailman
3 yet.  If you're particularly motivated to help with that, get in touch and I
will be happy to provide some clues.

Cheers,
-Barry

From barry at python.org  Mon Jul 13 16:04:41 2015
From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2015 10:04:41 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Mailman 3 status
In-Reply-To: <871tgchlq6.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <871tgchlq6.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <20150713100441.6608d622@anarchist.wooz.org>

[resend w/proper address]

On Jul 13, 2015, at 10:47 AM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:

>- Performance measurements.  There are theoretical reasons to believe
>  that under certain circumstances a "large" Mailman 3 under "heavy"
>  use *might* suffer bottlenecks, but we just don't know yet.

Note that the message delivery subsystem, while modernized and ported to
Python 3, is largely inherited from Mailman 2, which means that reliability
and performance *of message delivery* should be about the same.

Over in mailman-developers we've had some discussion about performance of the
REST server, which by default gets vended by Python 3's stdlib wsgiref module
and probably would be improved by a better wsgi application server such as
gunicorn.  Follow ups to -developers on that topic please.

>The information provided above is accurate to the best of my ability,
>but it has not been checked by the responsible developers.  It is
>provided in hope of may be of use to those considering installation of
>Mailman 3.  If you're still on the fence after reading this post,
>please do get more accurate information from the responsible
>developers on the Mailman Developers list.

You did good, Steve! :)

Cheers,
-Barry

From andrew.stuart at supercoders.com.au  Tue Jul 14 00:20:13 2015
From: andrew.stuart at supercoders.com.au (Andrew Stuart)
Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2015 08:20:13 +1000
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Guided tour of the authenticating proxy server
	source code Friday
Message-ID: <A89CC3C1-0E00-44E6-8D41-249602B21148@supercoders.com.au>

Hello all

Barry asked if I would mind donating the authentication proxy server to the FSF under a GPL license.  I thought this is a good idea and it is now at https://gitlab.com/astuart/mailmania and we are now finalising the copyright transfer.

Please note that right now I am cleaning up some things so not much point in trying it out as the tests are broken and some bits and pieces are missing but I am working now to get it finalised and hopefully all will be working within a day or two.

I am giving Barry a guided tour of the source code of the authenticating proxy server on Friday 17th (Australian Friday 17th) via Google Hangouts.

We?ll try to record it but its a good time to get questions answered so you might get more out of joining in.

Anyone else interested in joining us? If so, please say what city/timezone you are in so we can find a common time that suits.

thanks

as


From andrew.stuart at supercoders.com.au  Fri Jul 17 04:22:20 2015
From: andrew.stuart at supercoders.com.au (Andrew Stuart)
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2015 12:22:20 +1000
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] A rambling tour of the authenticating proxy
	server
Message-ID: <8C1C6536-FD60-402B-BBDF-F8883FB3E9F0@supercoders.com.au>

If you have an hour or so to kill you can follow the fairly rambling tour that Barry and I went on of the authenticating proxy server here.  Sorry it?s not practised or focused but you should be able to glean some info out of it.

http://youtu.be/DWDjtWQNx7c

If you have questions - fire away.



From andrew.stuart at supercoders.com.au  Fri Jul 17 04:26:32 2015
From: andrew.stuart at supercoders.com.au (Andrew Stuart)
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2015 12:26:32 +1000
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] New name needed for authenticating proxy server
Message-ID: <583C5DFA-3B7D-49D4-8694-D68515819CAC@supercoders.com.au>

"Authenticating Proxy Server" - such a catchy and inspiring name.

Barry has suggested and I heartily agree that we should solicit ideas from the Mailman community for a better name for it.

Your prize will be the great honour of a heartfelt ?thanks!?

Anyone at all welcome to submit ideas.

Stephen Turnbull has suggested:
"For the authentication service, does the cuckoo have any natural enemies?  Or we could call it some variation on "Cliff Stoll". :-) Or maybe "Barbarian Gate" (from the cover of Cheswick & Bellovin)."

as


From andrew.stuart at supercoders.com.au  Fri Jul 17 04:52:46 2015
From: andrew.stuart at supercoders.com.au (Andrew Stuart)
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2015 12:52:46 +1000
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Anyone with JavaScript skills up for a
	challenge....
Message-ID: <AF5D55B8-43B1-4BE0-B335-99AFEA5CD9EE@supercoders.com.au>

It would be good also if any daring developers with JavaScript skills were willing to have a go at getting something from the authenticating proxy server to display in a browser.

If you decide have a go at it, let me know and we can start by doing a short Google Hangouts session in which I can talk you through the process and concepts.

Step one would be to get the authenticating proxy server running on your Mailman server

There?s almost no documentation I am sorry to say, but there are installation instructions in the readme, and all of the Mailman REST API documentation remains accurate.

https://gitlab.com/astuart/mailmania

There is a handy list of API operations available here:
http://supercoders.com.au/swagger-ui/dist/index.html
Note that the routes are entirely accurate but none of the parameters are.

At its simplest, your JavaScript code would need to:

1: send a request to the login route (you will need to have a user configured in Mailman) 
POST /users/{id}/login

2: the login route will send back a JSON web token.

3: you can then send any API request you like to the server but you must provide the JSON web token in the X-Auth-Token: header

It will look something like this:
X-Auth-Token: eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJ1c2VyX2lkZW50aWZpZXIiOiJ0ZXN0c2VydmVyb3duZXJAbWFpbC5leGFtcGxlLm9yZyIsImV4cCI6MTQzNzE2MTIzOH0.UNo72oWoU4B35Bmmco7PeK7K8eyZcu3OHHBsyhwjhrQ.

4: thats it!



as


From William at alt-config.net  Fri Jul 17 11:37:18 2015
From: William at alt-config.net (William Bagwell)
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2015 05:37:18 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] New name needed for authenticating proxy
	server
In-Reply-To: <583C5DFA-3B7D-49D4-8694-D68515819CAC@supercoders.com.au>
References: <583C5DFA-3B7D-49D4-8694-D68515819CAC@supercoders.com.au>
Message-ID: <201507170537.19113.William@alt-config.net>

I suggest a simple "Authprox" and each version in turn get a catchy or 
humorous name. Perhaps Authprox 1.0 General Andrew Stuart. 

William

On Thursday 16 July 2015, Andrew Stuart wrote:
> "Authenticating Proxy Server" - such a catchy and inspiring name.
>
> Barry has suggested and I heartily agree that we should solicit ideas from
> the Mailman community for a better name for it.
>
> Your prize will be the great honour of a heartfelt ?thanks!?
>
> Anyone at all welcome to submit ideas.
>
> Stephen Turnbull has suggested:
> "For the authentication service, does the cuckoo have any natural enemies?
>  Or we could call it some variation on "Cliff Stoll". :-) Or maybe
> "Barbarian Gate" (from the cover of Cheswick & Bellovin)."
>
> as

From bonsaiviking at gmail.com  Mon Jul 20 21:41:57 2015
From: bonsaiviking at gmail.com (Daniel Miller)
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2015 14:41:57 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Member moderation action via Postorius?
Message-ID: <CABmvJnM2v_vE=BB0tqhgcdGVwAccHwUJxrh-4sWayaeXb6DNJA@mail.gmail.com>

Is there a way to view and toggle a member's moderation action
(member.moderation_action according to [1]) from Postorius? I would like to
be able to see this from the member list.

Dan

[1]
https://pythonhosted.org/mailman/src/mailman/model/docs/membership.html#moderation-actions

From aurelien at bompard.org  Tue Jul 21 18:39:44 2015
From: aurelien at bompard.org (Aurelien Bompard)
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2015 18:39:44 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Merging users
Message-ID: <CAHmoxtUiw2ZGpqAU8v8Pt+t6MhzJKH1BRFg80Lg8xYfG09rTog@mail.gmail.com>

Hey devs!

I'm hitting a problem when migrating from 2.1 to 3, but I think it's a
generic issue (or rather a missing feature) and I'd like to fix it.

If I try to associate an existing address to an existing user (without
this address obviously), the Mailman API will reply with a 400 error
"User already exists". Postorius currently does not detect that and
just errors out with a 500 page (but that's not the issue here).

I think I need to merge the two users, and that's currently not
supported. I believe it would be a useful feature, so I'd like to
discuss it here. IMHO, the only tricky part would be to merge the
preferences associated with each user, but if I know which of my two
users has priority, I can just resolve the conflicts that way.
Am I missing something? Do you agree it would be a useful feature to have?

Aur?lien

From eric at linuxfoundation.org  Tue Jul 21 20:01:14 2015
From: eric at linuxfoundation.org (Eric Searcy)
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2015 11:01:14 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Merging users
In-Reply-To: <CAHmoxtUiw2ZGpqAU8v8Pt+t6MhzJKH1BRFg80Lg8xYfG09rTog@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAHmoxtUiw2ZGpqAU8v8Pt+t6MhzJKH1BRFg80Lg8xYfG09rTog@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <55AE88EA.6090701@linuxfoundation.org>

On 7/21/15 9:39 AM, Aurelien Bompard wrote:
> Hey devs!
> 
> I'm hitting a problem when migrating from 2.1 to 3, but I think it's a
> generic issue (or rather a missing feature) and I'd like to fix it.
> 
> If I try to associate an existing address to an existing user (without
> this address obviously), the Mailman API will reply with a 400 error
> "User already exists". Postorius currently does not detect that and
> just errors out with a 500 page (but that's not the issue here).
> 
> I think I need to merge the two users, and that's currently not
> supported. I believe it would be a useful feature, so I'd like to
> discuss it here. IMHO, the only tricky part would be to merge the
> preferences associated with each user, but if I know which of my two
> users has priority, I can just resolve the conflicts that way.
> Am I missing something? Do you agree it would be a useful feature to have?

This is a generic issue for us too; not just migration-related.  I also
would support consolidation/merging of Postorius users to solve this.

In fact, there are a few inter-related blockers for us:

a) authenticating as the wrong email address + attempt to add subscribed
email as alternate (especially happens with social-type logins where
correcting the authenticated email is a pain)
b) cannot social-authenticate as an email address which is an alternate,
not the primary
c) attempting to social-authenticate as an email address which exists
but has no account ... at least I think this is what is described by
https://bugs.launchpad.net/postorius/+bug/1227461 (no matching gitlab bug)

Eric

-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: signature.asc
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 801 bytes
Desc: OpenPGP digital signature
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-developers/attachments/20150721/e4f6f962/attachment.sig>

From storey.thomas at gmail.com  Fri Jul 24 18:37:40 2015
From: storey.thomas at gmail.com (Thomas Storey)
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2015 16:37:40 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Trying to get started developing Mailman
Message-ID: <CABqwFzN_HH28NyC46VfXtP59izwJBDU53Z6T94kCKS+JaP_5=w@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Mailman developers,

I am trying to get started developing Mailman but I am having difficulty
setting up a local development/test environment on my machine (Ubuntu 14.04
LTS). I used black-perl's lovely development bootstrap to set up my virtual
environments and initially install Mailman and postorious, but I can't seem
to get a mailing list to actually work!

I followed the excellent documentation at
http://mailman.readthedocs.org/en/latest/src/mailman/docs/MTA.html to
configure postfix and Mailman to talk to each other. I created a mailing
list called "testlist" through the postorious interface. I subscribed
myself and a testuser to the list, but sending mail via:

echo "test body text" | mail -s "test subject" testlist at augusta.net

simply results in a bounced email message in /var/mail/thomas (my user on
my machine).
augusta.net is the domain I specified during postfix configuration. Sending
mail like above to "testuser at augusta.net" works perfectly (mail appears in
/var/mail/testuser). The only reason I made it is because Mailman won't let
you make a list @localhost.

Does anyone have any advice for setting up a local-only mailing list
environment so I can test behavior as I poke around in the code? Ideally I
want to be able to just send emails via the command line to the local
Mailman instance and have Mailman send emails out to local users that are
subscribed to its lists.  I am stumped as to how to get this going, and I
feel like I must be fundamentally misunderstanding how things are supposed
to be done.

Thanks for any guidance you can give me.

-Thomas

From mark at msapiro.net  Fri Jul 24 18:52:15 2015
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2015 09:52:15 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Trying to get started developing Mailman
In-Reply-To: <CABqwFzN_HH28NyC46VfXtP59izwJBDU53Z6T94kCKS+JaP_5=w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABqwFzN_HH28NyC46VfXtP59izwJBDU53Z6T94kCKS+JaP_5=w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <55B26D3F.4000606@msapiro.net>

On 7/24/15 9:37 AM, Thomas Storey wrote:
> ... but sending mail via:
> 
> echo "test body text" | mail -s "test subject" testlist at augusta.net
> 
> simply results in a bounced email message in /var/mail/thomas (my user on
> my machine).


And what does the bounce (or Postfix's mail.log) say is the reason why
it's undeliverable?


> Does anyone have any advice for setting up a local-only mailing list
> environment so I can test behavior as I poke around in the code? Ideally I
> want to be able to just send emails via the command line to the local
> Mailman instance and have Mailman send emails out to local users that are
> subscribed to its lists.  I am stumped as to how to get this going, and I
> feel like I must be fundamentally misunderstanding how things are supposed
> to be done.


My main development machine's IP is actually in DNS as msapiro.net. I
have Postfix on that machine configured with mydomain and myhostname =
msapiro.net and mydestination = msapiro.net, localhost.localdomain,
localhost.

My other machines (traveling laptops) are similar, but I also have

127.0.0.1  msapiro.net

in /etc/hosts to override the DNS.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From storey.thomas at gmail.com  Sat Jul 25 13:37:18 2015
From: storey.thomas at gmail.com (Thomas Storey)
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 2015 11:37:18 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Trying to get started developing Mailman
In-Reply-To: <mailman.65.1437818403.25110.mailman-developers@python.org>
References: <mailman.65.1437818403.25110.mailman-developers@python.org>
Message-ID: <CABqwFzPjOtJ4Z8_E+JhpXKEP_dYziiVzS=XA-6y5UifRYqsWtA@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks for the help. I have double-checked my postfix configuration to make
sure it is like yours, but my mail to the list still bounces.
mail.log looks like this when I try to send a message to the list (in this
case named mailman at augusta.net):

Jul 25 07:20:39 augusta postfix/pickup[4387]: C40252006E5: uid=1000
from=<thomas at augusta>
Jul 25 07:20:39 augusta postfix/cleanup[4488]: C40252006E5: message-id=<
20150725112039.C40252006E5 at augusta.net>
Jul 25 07:20:39 augusta postfix/qmgr[4388]: C40252006E5:
from=<thomas at augusta>, size=343, nrcpt=1 (queue active)
Jul 25 07:20:39 augusta postfix/local[4490]: C40252006E5:
to=<lmtp:[127.0.0.1]:8024 at localhost>, orig_to=<mailman at augusta.net>,
relay=local, delay=0.26, delays=0.24/0/0/0.03, dsn=5.1.1, status=bounced
(unknown use$
Jul 25 07:20:39 augusta postfix/cleanup[4488]: D113C2006F1: message-id=<
20150725112039.D113C2006F1 at augusta.net>
Jul 25 07:20:39 augusta postfix/bounce[4509]: C40252006E5: sender
non-delivery notification: D113C2006F1
Jul 25 07:20:39 augusta postfix/qmgr[4388]: D113C2006F1: from=<>,
size=2158, nrcpt=1 (queue active)
Jul 25 07:20:39 augusta postfix/qmgr[4388]: C40252006E5: removed
Jul 25 07:20:39 augusta postfix/local[4490]: D113C2006F1: to=<thomas at augusta>,
relay=local, delay=0.05, delays=0.03/0/0/0.03, dsn=2.0.0, status=sent
(delivered to mailbox)
Jul 25 07:20:39 augusta postfix/qmgr[4388]: D113C2006F1: removed

essentially, bounced because of unknown user
and the actual bounce notification in /var/mail/thomas is similar:

<"lmtp:[127.0.0.1]:8024"@localhost> (expanded from <mailman at augusta.net>):
    unknown user: "lmtp:[127.0.0.1]:8024"

--C40252006E5.1437823239/augusta.net
Content-Description: Delivery report
Content-Type: message/delivery-status

Reporting-MTA: dns; augusta.net
X-Postfix-Queue-ID: C40252006E5
X-Postfix-Sender: rfc822; thomas at augusta
Arrival-Date: Sat, 25 Jul 2015 07:20:39 -0400 (EDT)

Final-Recipient: rfc822; "lmtp:[127.0.0.1]:8024"@localhost
Original-Recipient: rfc822; mailman at augusta.net
Action: failed
Status: 5.1.1
Diagnostic-Code: X-Postfix; unknown user: "lmtp:[127.0.0.1]:8024"

I have tried with and without a user on my system named "mailman", either
way the message bounces if sent to mailman at augusta.net, but with a user it
goes through if sent to mailman at localhost (when there is a user), which I
find odd. I can send mail to other users fine with <name>@augusta.net.
Thanks for any further assistance! Sorry for the newbish questions.

On Sat, Jul 25, 2015 at 6:02 AM <mailman-developers-request at python.org>
wrote:

> Send Mailman-Developers mailing list submissions to
>         mailman-developers at python.org
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>         https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>         mailman-developers-request at python.org
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
>         mailman-developers-owner at python.org
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of Mailman-Developers digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>    1. Trying to get started developing Mailman (Thomas Storey)
>    2. Re: Trying to get started developing Mailman (Mark Sapiro)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2015 16:37:40 +0000
> From: Thomas Storey <storey.thomas at gmail.com>
> To: mailman-developers at python.org
> Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Trying to get started developing Mailman
> Message-ID:
>         <CABqwFzN_HH28NyC46VfXtP59izwJBDU53Z6T94kCKS+JaP_5=
> w at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> Hello Mailman developers,
>
> I am trying to get started developing Mailman but I am having difficulty
> setting up a local development/test environment on my machine (Ubuntu 14.04
> LTS). I used black-perl's lovely development bootstrap to set up my virtual
> environments and initially install Mailman and postorious, but I can't seem
> to get a mailing list to actually work!
>
> I followed the excellent documentation at
> http://mailman.readthedocs.org/en/latest/src/mailman/docs/MTA.html to
> configure postfix and Mailman to talk to each other. I created a mailing
> list called "testlist" through the postorious interface. I subscribed
> myself and a testuser to the list, but sending mail via:
>
> echo "test body text" | mail -s "test subject" testlist at augusta.net
>
> simply results in a bounced email message in /var/mail/thomas (my user on
> my machine).
> augusta.net is the domain I specified during postfix configuration.
> Sending
> mail like above to "testuser at augusta.net" works perfectly (mail appears in
> /var/mail/testuser). The only reason I made it is because Mailman won't let
> you make a list @localhost.
>
> Does anyone have any advice for setting up a local-only mailing list
> environment so I can test behavior as I poke around in the code? Ideally I
> want to be able to just send emails via the command line to the local
> Mailman instance and have Mailman send emails out to local users that are
> subscribed to its lists.  I am stumped as to how to get this going, and I
> feel like I must be fundamentally misunderstanding how things are supposed
> to be done.
>
> Thanks for any guidance you can give me.
>
> -Thomas
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2015 09:52:15 -0700
> From: Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>
> To: mailman-developers at python.org
> Subject: Re: [Mailman-Developers] Trying to get started developing
>         Mailman
> Message-ID: <55B26D3F.4000606 at msapiro.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252
>
> On 7/24/15 9:37 AM, Thomas Storey wrote:
> > ... but sending mail via:
> >
> > echo "test body text" | mail -s "test subject" testlist at augusta.net
> >
> > simply results in a bounced email message in /var/mail/thomas (my user on
> > my machine).
>
>
> And what does the bounce (or Postfix's mail.log) say is the reason why
> it's undeliverable?
>
>
> > Does anyone have any advice for setting up a local-only mailing list
> > environment so I can test behavior as I poke around in the code? Ideally
> I
> > want to be able to just send emails via the command line to the local
> > Mailman instance and have Mailman send emails out to local users that are
> > subscribed to its lists.  I am stumped as to how to get this going, and I
> > feel like I must be fundamentally misunderstanding how things are
> supposed
> > to be done.
>
>
> My main development machine's IP is actually in DNS as msapiro.net. I
> have Postfix on that machine configured with mydomain and myhostname =
> msapiro.net and mydestination = msapiro.net, localhost.localdomain,
> localhost.
>
> My other machines (traveling laptops) are similar, but I also have
>
> 127.0.0.1  msapiro.net
>
> in /etc/hosts to override the DNS.
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Subject: Digest Footer
>
> _______________________________________________
> Mailman-Developers mailing list
> Mailman-Developers at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> End of Mailman-Developers Digest, Vol 315, Issue 13
> ***************************************************
>

From bhavesh.goyal093 at gmail.com  Sat Jul 25 14:00:16 2015
From: bhavesh.goyal093 at gmail.com (Bhavesh Goyal)
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 2015 12:00:16 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Gsoc Status Update: Dashboard for Admins
Message-ID: <CACczSNFOwZLg5RxjBSRGm5RGdbaop-xqxgCFB2pRwLjgcAtENg@mail.gmail.com>

Hey !

I Just updated my Blog with an update of The Project Progress so far.
Attached to The Blog is also a preview of The Dashboard for those who
have't been able to test it yet on their machine.

Interested people can have a look at
Blog Link: http://towardsgsoc15.wordpress.com

Regards,
Bhavesh

From mark at msapiro.net  Sun Jul 26 06:49:04 2015
From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 2015 21:49:04 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Trying to get started developing Mailman
In-Reply-To: <CABqwFzPjOtJ4Z8_E+JhpXKEP_dYziiVzS=XA-6y5UifRYqsWtA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.65.1437818403.25110.mailman-developers@python.org>
 <CABqwFzPjOtJ4Z8_E+JhpXKEP_dYziiVzS=XA-6y5UifRYqsWtA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <55B466C0.5090106@msapiro.net>

On 7/25/15 4:37 AM, Thomas Storey wrote:
> Thanks for the help. I have double-checked my postfix configuration to make
> sure it is like yours, but my mail to the list still bounces.
> mail.log looks like this when I try to send a message to the list (in this
> case named mailman at augusta.net):
> 
...
> Jul 25 07:20:39 augusta postfix/local[4490]: C40252006E5:
> to=<lmtp:[127.0.0.1]:8024 at localhost>, orig_to=<mailman at augusta.net>,
> relay=local, delay=0.26, delays=0.24/0/0/0.03, dsn=5.1.1, status=bounced
> (unknown use$
...
> essentially, bounced because of unknown user
> and the actual bounce notification in /var/mail/thomas is similar:
> 
> <"lmtp:[127.0.0.1]:8024"@localhost> (expanded from <mailman at augusta.net>):
>     unknown user: "lmtp:[127.0.0.1]:8024"


It looks like you have configured some Mailman generated file in Postfix
as virtual_alias_maps that should be transport_maps.

If you installed via mailman-bundler, the suggested Postfix config lines
should be in deployment/postfix-main.cf.

If you still have trouble, post the output of 'postconf -n'.


> On Sat, Jul 25, 2015 at 6:02 AM <mailman-developers-request at python.org>
> wrote:
> 
>> Send Mailman-Developers mailing list submissions to
>>         mailman-developers at python.org
...


Please don't quote entire digests in list replies.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From storey.thomas at gmail.com  Sun Jul 26 19:00:29 2015
From: storey.thomas at gmail.com (Thomas Storey)
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 2015 17:00:29 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Trying to get started developing Mailman
Message-ID: <CABqwFzPc_FGwyQ7t6Rrp=5Qn-AunBqB8YQv+yzMGBvrj_e=4uA@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks for your continued help Mark! Sorry for the untidy list usage.
When I first subscribed to this list about a month and a half ago I set my
subscription to digest mode, but it seems the password I have stored in my
password manager is incorrect, so I can't set it off, which has not been
helpful for this discussion obviously. Thank you for bearing with me!

In my /etc/postfix/main.cf file I indeed had both virtual_alias_maps and
transport_maps set to my /.../mailman/var/data/postfix_lmtp file. I removed
the virtual_alias_map setting and tried again, and did in fact get some
encouraging behavior.

After that, sending mail to mailman at augusta.net did not bounce, and indeed
did make it to the list, but the list was unable to send mail to users
subscribed to the list. I looked in the mail.log again and saw:
NOQUEUE: reject: RCPT from localhost[127.0.0.1]: 550 5.1.1 <
thomas at augusta.net>: Recipient address rejected: User unknown in local
recipient table; ...
After some searching around, I found that the transport maps settings
sometimes don't work and it's better to use aliases.
So I removed the local_recipients_maps and relay_domains lines, and mapped
the alias_maps and alias_database lines to my
/.../mailman/var/data/postfix_lmtp files in my main.cf file. I also removed
the mailman lines in master.cf (the ones that look like this:
mailman   unix  -       n       n       -       -       pipe
flags=FR user=list argv=/usr/lib/mailman/bin/postfix-to-mailman.py
##  ${nexthop} ${user}

From storey.thomas at gmail.com  Sun Jul 26 19:04:33 2015
From: storey.thomas at gmail.com (Thomas Storey)
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 2015 17:04:33 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Trying to get started developing Mailman
In-Reply-To: <CABqwFzPc_FGwyQ7t6Rrp=5Qn-AunBqB8YQv+yzMGBvrj_e=4uA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABqwFzPc_FGwyQ7t6Rrp=5Qn-AunBqB8YQv+yzMGBvrj_e=4uA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CABqwFzMxxnH=-QfnmOBzpYo_EFGGdPci+tQoa=3ixf7Q8b+CSQ@mail.gmail.com>

After I made those aforementioned changes (sorry email got sent
prematurely) I have finally managed to send to and receive mail from my
local list successfully. Thank you for your help! I'm sure I'll be back
with more questions in the future.

On Sun, Jul 26, 2015 at 1:00 PM Thomas Storey <storey.thomas at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Thanks for your continued help Mark! Sorry for the untidy list usage.
> When I first subscribed to this list about a month and a half ago I set my
> subscription to digest mode, but it seems the password I have stored in my
> password manager is incorrect, so I can't set it off, which has not been
> helpful for this discussion obviously. Thank you for bearing with me!
>
> In my /etc/postfix/main.cf file I indeed had both virtual_alias_maps and
> transport_maps set to my /.../mailman/var/data/postfix_lmtp file. I removed
> the virtual_alias_map setting and tried again, and did in fact get some
> encouraging behavior.
>
> After that, sending mail to mailman at augusta.net did not bounce, and
> indeed did make it to the list, but the list was unable to send mail to
> users subscribed to the list. I looked in the mail.log again and saw:
> NOQUEUE: reject: RCPT from localhost[127.0.0.1]: 550 5.1.1 <
> thomas at augusta.net>: Recipient address rejected: User unknown in local
> recipient table; ...
> After some searching around, I found that the transport maps settings
> sometimes don't work and it's better to use aliases.
> So I removed the local_recipients_maps and relay_domains lines, and mapped
> the alias_maps and alias_database lines to my
> /.../mailman/var/data/postfix_lmtp files in my main.cf file. I also
> removed the mailman lines in master.cf (the ones that look like this:
> mailman   unix  -       n       n       -       -       pipe
> flags=FR user=list argv=/usr/lib/mailman/bin/postfix-to-mailman.py
> ##  ${nexthop} ${user}
>
>

From shivams at one.com  Mon Jul 27 12:18:15 2015
From: shivams at one.com (Shivam Shukla)
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2015 15:48:15 +0530
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Migration from mailman2 to mailman3
Message-ID: <55B60567.1060404@one.com>

Hi,

I want to install mailman3 and use it for all my mailing facilities. 
Previously i was using mailman2. So i need to migrate all my mailman2 
data to mailman3 for which i am not able to find any resource.

Although i read at few places that migration will be supported in 
mailman3.1. Can anyone please provide more information if migration will 
be supported in mailman3.1 and if it will be then at what time i can 
expect that release?
Thanks

From raj.abhilash1 at gmail.com  Wed Jul 29 15:57:26 2015
From: raj.abhilash1 at gmail.com (Abhilash Raj)
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2015 19:27:26 +0530
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Merging users
In-Reply-To: <CAHmoxtUiw2ZGpqAU8v8Pt+t6MhzJKH1BRFg80Lg8xYfG09rTog@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAHmoxtUiw2ZGpqAU8v8Pt+t6MhzJKH1BRFg80Lg8xYfG09rTog@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAF2AkX=1f=hvwMRbnxufZR77DjFu6Dn1YUGaVFrY4ykmbuEGbw@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Aurelien,

On 21 July 2015 at 22:09, Aurelien Bompard <aurelien at bompard.org> wrote:

> Hey devs!
>
> I'm hitting a problem when migrating from 2.1 to 3, but I think it's a
> generic issue (or rather a missing feature) and I'd like to fix it.
>
> If I try to associate an existing address to an existing user (without
> this address obviously), the Mailman API will reply with a 400 error
> "User already exists". Postorius currently does not detect that and
> just errors out with a 500 page (but that's not the issue here).
>

I tried doing this on a mailman shell, and I was able to associate an
existing address with an existing user. And, I was able to reproduce the
404 error when using the REST API. I think it is a bug in the REST API.


> I think I need to merge the two users, and that's currently not
> supported. I believe it would be a useful feature, so I'd like to
> discuss it here. IMHO, the only tricky part would be to merge the
> preferences associated with each user, but if I know which of my two
> users has priority, I can just resolve the conflicts that way.
>

Are you talking about merging Postorius' users or Mailman's users
here?

What I feel is that it would be a useful feature for Postorius. Mailman
already as decoupled users and addresses. In case we want to merge
two users, we can just associate the second user's address with the
first user and delete the second user. Here I am assuming that first
user has priority and his preferences are to be saved.

Whereas in Postorius this is quite a big problem. I don't think we can
add multiple addresses to a django.contrib.auth.User model. Even though
we have a custom MailmanUser model too, but for logging in a user we
depend on django's User model. This means, the user can never login
 to his same account through the alternate address.

What do you think?

-- 
thanks,
Abhilash Raj

From raj.abhilash1 at gmail.com  Wed Jul 29 16:33:05 2015
From: raj.abhilash1 at gmail.com (Abhilash Raj)
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2015 20:03:05 +0530
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Merging users
In-Reply-To: <55AE88EA.6090701@linuxfoundation.org>
References: <CAHmoxtUiw2ZGpqAU8v8Pt+t6MhzJKH1BRFg80Lg8xYfG09rTog@mail.gmail.com>
 <55AE88EA.6090701@linuxfoundation.org>
Message-ID: <CAF2AkXmM8seQNc2mEXNgoa=ApWwW9_nKPaMCJB3yuhL91NR0fA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Eric,

On 21 July 2015 at 23:31, Eric Searcy <eric at linuxfoundation.org> wrote:

> On 7/21/15 9:39 AM, Aurelien Bompard wrote:
> > Hey devs!
> >
> > I'm hitting a problem when migrating from 2.1 to 3, but I think it's a
> > generic issue (or rather a missing feature) and I'd like to fix it.
> >
> > If I try to associate an existing address to an existing user (without
> > this address obviously), the Mailman API will reply with a 400 error
> > "User already exists". Postorius currently does not detect that and
> > just errors out with a 500 page (but that's not the issue here).
> >
> > I think I need to merge the two users, and that's currently not
> > supported. I believe it would be a useful feature, so I'd like to
> > discuss it here. IMHO, the only tricky part would be to merge the
> > preferences associated with each user, but if I know which of my two
> > users has priority, I can just resolve the conflicts that way.
> > Am I missing something? Do you agree it would be a useful feature to
> have?
>
> This is a generic issue for us too; not just migration-related.  I also
> would support consolidation/merging of Postorius users to solve this.
>
> In fact, there are a few inter-related blockers for us:
>
> a) authenticating as the wrong email address + attempt to add subscribed
> email as alternate (especially happens with social-type logins where
> correcting the authenticated email is a pain)
>

I don't get any error while adding an already existing user. However,  since
I don't have postfix setup, I can't verify the address from email. I can
however.
do it from the backend.


> b) cannot social-authenticate as an email address which is an alternate,
> not the primary
>

So, it is correct that you cannot social-authenticate to the same account
using an alternate address. I am thinking about how we can fix this.
However, this is not a very critical bug. Even if you login into two
seperate
Postorius accounts, the underlying MailmanUser is the same. You can
view your subscriptions from both the addresses in both the accounts.
Also, you can change subscriptions to other alternate addresses in both
the accounts.


> c) attempting to social-authenticate as an email address which exists
> but has no account ... at least I think this is what is described by
> https://bugs.launchpad.net/postorius/+bug/1227461 (no matching gitlab bug)
>

I checked out this one it is no more a bug. I can login with person to an
address
that already exists and is not associated with any account.

However, note that I am using the master branch from source code.

-- 
thanks,
Abhilash Raj

From raj.abhilash1 at gmail.com  Wed Jul 29 20:37:55 2015
From: raj.abhilash1 at gmail.com (Abhilash Raj)
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2015 00:07:55 +0530
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Merging users
In-Reply-To: <CAF2AkXmM8seQNc2mEXNgoa=ApWwW9_nKPaMCJB3yuhL91NR0fA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAHmoxtUiw2ZGpqAU8v8Pt+t6MhzJKH1BRFg80Lg8xYfG09rTog@mail.gmail.com>
 <55AE88EA.6090701@linuxfoundation.org>
 <CAF2AkXmM8seQNc2mEXNgoa=ApWwW9_nKPaMCJB3yuhL91NR0fA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAF2AkXk0SYUtijK+CK1zZPKZFwDDaGvHVK5SOH0Q1x365h+x-w@mail.gmail.com>

On 29 July 2015 at 20:03, Abhilash Raj <raj.abhilash1 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Eric,
>
> On 21 July 2015 at 23:31, Eric Searcy <eric at linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
>
>> On 7/21/15 9:39 AM, Aurelien Bompard wrote:
>> > Hey devs!
>> >
>> > I'm hitting a problem when migrating from 2.1 to 3, but I think it's a
>> > generic issue (or rather a missing feature) and I'd like to fix it.
>> >
>> > If I try to associate an existing address to an existing user (without
>> > this address obviously), the Mailman API will reply with a 400 error
>> > "User already exists". Postorius currently does not detect that and
>> > just errors out with a 500 page (but that's not the issue here).
>> >
>> > I think I need to merge the two users, and that's currently not
>> > supported. I believe it would be a useful feature, so I'd like to
>> > discuss it here. IMHO, the only tricky part would be to merge the
>> > preferences associated with each user, but if I know which of my two
>> > users has priority, I can just resolve the conflicts that way.
>> > Am I missing something? Do you agree it would be a useful feature to
>> have?
>>
>> This is a generic issue for us too; not just migration-related.  I also
>> would support consolidation/merging of Postorius users to solve this.
>>
>> In fact, there are a few inter-related blockers for us:
>>
>> a) authenticating as the wrong email address + attempt to add subscribed
>> email as alternate (especially happens with social-type logins where
>> correcting the authenticated email is a pain)
>>
>
> I don't get any error while adding an already existing user. However,
> since
> I don't have postfix setup, I can't verify the address from email. I can
> however.
> do it from the backend.
>

Sorry for this one. Yes it indeed raise a 400 error when adding an already
subscribed address even if there is no User objects associated with it in
core.
This probably is a bug. Also, probably postorius should check this before
sending the confirmation email.


>
>
>> b) cannot social-authenticate as an email address which is an alternate,
>> not the primary
>>
>
> So, it is correct that you cannot social-authenticate to the same account
> using an alternate address. I am thinking about how we can fix this.
> However, this is not a very critical bug. Even if you login into two
> seperate
> Postorius accounts, the underlying MailmanUser is the same. You can
> view your subscriptions from both the addresses in both the accounts.
> Also, you can change subscriptions to other alternate addresses in both
> the accounts.
>
>
>> c) attempting to social-authenticate as an email address which exists
>> but has no account ... at least I think this is what is described by
>> https://bugs.launchpad.net/postorius/+bug/1227461 (no matching gitlab
>> bug)
>>
>
> I checked out this one it is no more a bug. I can login with person to an
> address
> that already exists and is not associated with any account.
>
> However, note that I am using the master branch from source code.
>
> --
> thanks,
> Abhilash Raj
>



-- 
thanks,
Abhilash Raj

From jglazer at gard.com  Wed Jul 29 16:56:55 2015
From: jglazer at gard.com (Jason Glazer)
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2015 09:56:55 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Running Mailman 3.0 on Shared Hosting
Message-ID: <55B8E9B7.6000306@gard.com>

I have a shared hosting account (Dreamhost) that I have been 
running Mailman 2.1.17 for many years with 15 low volume 
lists (5 to 100 messages per month). I would like to switch 
to using Mailman 3.0 and stay using a shared hosting 
environment. Has anyone successfully used Mailman 3.0 in a 
shared hosting environment? Were there any performance 
issues or other problems?

Thanks

Jason

From eric at linuxfoundation.org  Thu Jul 30 04:40:46 2015
From: eric at linuxfoundation.org (Eric Searcy)
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2015 19:40:46 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] REST API speed
In-Reply-To: <20150710141617.20f783c7@anarchist.wooz.org>
References: <559DBCB9.70607@linuxfoundation.org>
 <20150709182615.73237aa9@anarchist.wooz.org>
 <C432E18D-9A89-44E0-A2E8-2F1BA75A9175@supercoders.com.au>
 <20150710104332.7daf68ff@anarchist.wooz.org>
 <20150710141617.20f783c7@anarchist.wooz.org>
Message-ID: <55B98EAE.5020209@linuxfoundation.org>

On 7/10/15 11:16 AM, Barry Warsaw wrote:
> On Jul 10, 2015, at 10:43 AM, Barry Warsaw wrote:
> 
>> My thinking is that a gunicorn -or other external wsgi server- based REST
>> runner wouldn't do much more than run gunicorn with the proper commands in a
>> subprocess, and manage its PID so that the runner itself could response to
>> `mailman stop` and `restart` commands.
> 
> I took a slightly different approach.  Basically don't start gunicorn with
> `mailman start` but start it in a shell after the main system is up and
> running.  Here's a very experimental and almost completely untested branch
> that could get you started:
> 
> https://gitlab.com/warsaw/mailman/tree/gunicorn
> 
> Read the docstring in this commit for details.
> 
> https://gitlab.com/warsaw/mailman/commit/3fbfde8793c9c5bf12b0f250a58b3e3134f77ebb

This didn't work for me without modification, both because gunicorn was
trying to pass 2 arguments into make_application, and because the
initialization was trying to happen each request, which caused issues
(mailman crashing trying to add the same language twice).

Here's how I resolved it (API running under gunicorn 19.3.0 correctly
responds to requests; didn't test much beyond that):

https://gitlab.com/emsearcy/mailman/commit/33fa949cfa190d32e3fd68ed02e787cc050ffa36

It's curious to me that Mailman Bundler makes references to Gunicorn
support, but it seems there code would run into the same problems I did
(multiple initiations and argument count mismatch).  Is anybody using
this from Bundler currently and can help me figure out why the difference?

https://mailman-bundler.readthedocs.org/en/latest/
https://gitlab.com/mailman/mailman-bundler/blob/master/mailman_web/wsgi.py
https://gitlab.com/mailman/mailman-bundler/blob/master/templates/deployment/mailman-web-gunicorn.service.in

Best regards,

Eric

-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: signature.asc
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 801 bytes
Desc: OpenPGP digital signature
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-developers/attachments/20150729/38e73e45/attachment-0001.sig>

From raj.abhilash1 at gmail.com  Thu Jul 30 07:38:55 2015
From: raj.abhilash1 at gmail.com (Abhilash Raj)
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2015 11:08:55 +0530
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] REST API speed
In-Reply-To: <55B98EAE.5020209@linuxfoundation.org>
References: <559DBCB9.70607@linuxfoundation.org>
 <20150709182615.73237aa9@anarchist.wooz.org>
 <C432E18D-9A89-44E0-A2E8-2F1BA75A9175@supercoders.com.au>
 <20150710104332.7daf68ff@anarchist.wooz.org>
 <20150710141617.20f783c7@anarchist.wooz.org>
 <55B98EAE.5020209@linuxfoundation.org>
Message-ID: <CAF2AkXm6a2DyYKG72cECYViGqsU8Wi1RRFEhfKBJdaqvXmddyQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Eric,

It's curious to me that Mailman Bundler makes references to Gunicorn
> support, but it seems there code would run into the same problems I did
> (multiple initiations and argument count mismatch).  Is anybody using
> this from Bundler currently and can help me figure out why the difference?
>
>
The references to Gunicorn in Mailman-Bundler is just for deplying the
django
project in which the Postorius and Hyperkitty run.

-- 
thanks,
Abhilash Raj

From Krinetzki at itc.rwth-aachen.de  Thu Jul 30 07:54:49 2015
From: Krinetzki at itc.rwth-aachen.de (Krinetzki, Stephan)
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2015 05:54:49 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Mailman 3 Error & some questions
Message-ID: <594A67F0BEDB4A49AAF8B765EFB7482F3C770E@MBX-S1.rwth-ad.de>

Hello,

 

I am planning to migrate from mailman 2.1.14 to mailman 3. At the moment

mailman 3 is running on a new CentOS 7 server with postfix as MTA. But I

have some questions and problems:

 

1. I have an error with hyperkitty

 

ERROR 2015-07-29 08:11:02,287 update_index 7216 140406344681280 Failed to

update the fulltext index: 'Command' object has no attribute 'commit'

Traceback (most recent call last):

  File

"/opt/mailman/mailman-bundler/eggs/HyperKitty-1.0.1-py2.7.egg/hyperkitty/job

s/update_index.py", line 58, in execute

    update_index()

  File

"/opt/mailman/mailman-bundler/eggs/HyperKitty-1.0.1-py2.7.egg/hyperkitty/sea

rch_indexes.py", line 73, in update_index

    update_cmd.update_backend("hyperkitty", "default")

  File

"/opt/mailman/mailman-bundler/eggs/django_haystack-2.4.0-py2.7.egg/haystack/

management/commands/update_index.py", line 233, in update_backend

    do_update(backend, index, qs, start, end, total,

verbosity=self.verbosity, commit=self.commit)

AttributeError: 'Command' object has no attribute 'commit'

 

As far as I can tell, there is an error with the haystack indexing of

archived mails. But how to fix this? I'm clueless.

 

2. In mailman 2, I've created a list and added a new owner. Then the owner

get an email, with his password and a link to the admin page of the list.

How does this work in mailman3? If I create an list in mailman3 and set the

owner, then the email address is the owner, but he isn't noticed. So what

steps are needed to get an password for the new owner and admin of the list?

 

3. Is it possible to get Shibboleth ( <https://www.shibboleth.net>
https://www.shibboleth.net) working

with mailman3?

 

4. The link in the welcome mail to the info page of the list is wrong. It

says    <http://lists.example.com/listinfo/list at lists.example.com>
http://lists.example.com/listinfo/list at lists.example.com and if I

visit this link, I get an 404 error. (example.com is here a real domain).

The Second link says  <http://example.com/me at host.com>
http://example.com/me at host.com where the example.com

part seems to be hardcoded.

 

Thank you for your help and I hope my English is not too bad (I'm just a

German IT Administrator...)

 

Greetings from Germany

 

Stephan Krinetzki

 

-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: smime.p7s
Type: application/pkcs7-signature
Size: 5849 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-developers/attachments/20150730/4023cc31/attachment.bin>

From eric at linuxfoundation.org  Thu Jul 30 19:44:47 2015
From: eric at linuxfoundation.org (Eric Searcy)
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2015 10:44:47 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] REST API speed
In-Reply-To: <CAF2AkXm6a2DyYKG72cECYViGqsU8Wi1RRFEhfKBJdaqvXmddyQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <559DBCB9.70607@linuxfoundation.org>
 <20150709182615.73237aa9@anarchist.wooz.org>
 <C432E18D-9A89-44E0-A2E8-2F1BA75A9175@supercoders.com.au>
 <20150710104332.7daf68ff@anarchist.wooz.org>
 <20150710141617.20f783c7@anarchist.wooz.org>
 <55B98EAE.5020209@linuxfoundation.org>
 <CAF2AkXm6a2DyYKG72cECYViGqsU8Wi1RRFEhfKBJdaqvXmddyQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <55BA628F.9030406@linuxfoundation.org>

On 7/29/15 10:38 PM, Abhilash Raj wrote:
> Hi Eric,
> 
>     It's curious to me that Mailman Bundler makes references to Gunicorn
>     support, but it seems there code would run into the same problems I did
>     (multiple initiations and argument count mismatch).  Is anybody using
>     this from Bundler currently and can help me figure out why the
>     difference?
> 
> 
> The references to Gunicorn in Mailman-Bundler is just for deplying the
> django
> project in which the Postorius and Hyperkitty run.

Oh, of course. Thanks,

Eric


-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: signature.asc
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 801 bytes
Desc: OpenPGP digital signature
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-developers/attachments/20150730/c5f09085/attachment.sig>