From terri at toybox.ca Sat Dec 5 02:44:02 2015 From: terri at toybox.ca (Terri Oda) Date: Fri, 4 Dec 2015 23:44:02 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Mailman 3 production setup testbed In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <566295C2.3060105@toybox.ca> On 2015-11-24 7:32 AM, Andrew Hodgson wrote: > My confusion relates to the virtual environment that I create. I am > running from the dedicated MM3 user I created, and I am looking to > expand the bundler from the user?s home directory in /home (for > example). When I create the virtual environment, the files are all > held in this directory, and I really want the MM3 to be installed > system wide as this will be the only program running on this machine. > Do I even need to create a virtual environment at all? Are there any > other guides relating to setting up MM3 for a purely production > environment with minimal dependencies? I hit this same issue, as it were. In my case, I knew exactly what was going on and why but, the problem arose when I needed other people to be able to do mailman-related stuff on the machine and it feels *really* weird to people to go into my home directory to restart mailman. I think we should probably update the docs to suggest that you start by making a directory where you'd like mailman installed, rather than the way the guide is currently written where it sometimes surprises people that they have a live mailman install in their home directory (as opposed to the workflow people may be expecting which more like "I get a staged copy of my source in my home directory and then I type make install and it puts the executables and config files in expected places") What would be a good default directory to have in the docs if I want to update them to suggest you start somewhere other than your home directory? /opt/mailman is probably the most appropriate one according to the LSB. Does anyone want to make another suggestion before I update the docs to suggest that as a logical place to put your mailman stuff? (I'll leave a note saying that if you're just trying stuff out then your home directory is fine, too.) Terri From terri at toybox.ca Sat Dec 5 04:10:10 2015 From: terri at toybox.ca (Terri Oda) Date: Sat, 5 Dec 2015 01:10:10 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Website re-org? Message-ID: <5662A9F2.3040200@toybox.ca> Abhilash did a lovely job on the new website, but while the layout has changed, a lot of the content hasn't. And I'm not sure what we've got lines up very with what people want out of our website, so I'm thinking about re-organizing. Right now, I suspect that when people visit list.org, these are the things they want to do: 1. Find out what mailman is. We're good at that right now: there's good info on the main page and then links to features. 2. Find out how to get and install the latest version of Mailman. Need improvement here. Mailman 2.1 download links are good. Mailman 3 directs you to PyPI but then there's nothing explaining about how Mailman now is a suite and it's this bunch of packages. Also nothing about how you can use mailman-bundler rather than trying to make the magic happen yourself. I wrote something up and put in a merge request, pending someone proofreading it: https://gitlab.com/mailman/mailman-website/merge_requests/5 3. Find out how to report a bug We kind of fail on this one, except if you want to report a security issue. Again, this is more complex than it might seem since there's a bunch of different components. 4. Find the docs / get help with an issue. The good: they're linked right there in the top bar. The bad: is someone looking at this going to know they want the docs for postorius vs hyperkitty? Will any of that make sense? I think we might need a landing page here. We do have a "help" link and the "wiki" link in this area too, but I think a landing page could bring this all together more nicely. 5. Find out how to contribute. This is going to be especially gsoc students. We've got some nice developer links and yeay, this is one of the pages that lists out all the parts of Mailman! But we could really use a startup guide here. We do have a nice Donate link for financial contributions, though. 6. Figure out how to get in touch with us. This page is pretty decent, with the mailing lists and IRC and all. Maybe if we had a "how to report a bug" page it should be linked here, but otherwise full marks. 7. Learn more about Mailman We've got some good resources: features, media, the code of conduct, etc. But probably we should group this all together so that it's easier for people to find the other important things they want without wading through all these links. I'd suggest we keep the top of page links as they are, since they're super useful to people who know what they're looking for already, and have the left side menu be more about the guides. But I think we should replace all the links down the left-hand side of the page with links that match up with those goals, so the menu would probably look something like: * About Mailman - combine all the about mailman stuff here, although we also want to leave the main page as is, so there may be a bit of duplication here. * Get Mailman - Links to source code and install guides, high level description of what to do. * Help and Documentation - landing page with a link to the docs, wiki and mailing lists, with instructions. Maybe some search boxes? Userguides go here too. * Report an issue / Contact Us - landing page with reminder about reporting security bugs, links to bug trackers, mailing lists, irc * How to Contribute - new contributors guide here, prefaced by the basic source/gitlab links Thoughts on better ways to set this up? Other suggestions of things people often want out of our website? Terri From stephen at xemacs.org Sat Dec 5 09:38:33 2015 From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull) Date: Sat, 5 Dec 2015 23:38:33 +0900 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Mailman 3 production setup testbed In-Reply-To: <566295C2.3060105@toybox.ca> References: <566295C2.3060105@toybox.ca> Message-ID: <22114.63209.405723.443182@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> Terri Oda writes: > What would be a good default directory to have in the docs if I want to > update them to suggest you start somewhere other than your home directory? > > /opt/mailman > > is probably the most appropriate one according to the LSB. +1 It's the only system hierarchy that the FHS lets us decide on the layout. To fully conform with the FHS, use /opt/mailman requires us to register "mailman" with LANANA (http://www.lanana.org/). N.B. Neither the FSF nor GNU is currently registered, so no, we don't belong in something like /opt/gnu/mailman. (The rationale for that lack is pretty clear -- RMS would blow a cranial artery at the suggestion that GNU is an optional component of a Linux system. :-) Personally, I'd like to get out of the main hierarchies; splitting things across /etc, /usr and /var is annoying. So /opt/mailman looks really good to me. Steve From adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk Sat Dec 5 13:21:09 2015 From: adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk (Adam McGreggor) Date: Sat, 5 Dec 2015 18:21:09 +0000 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Website re-org? In-Reply-To: <5662A9F2.3040200@toybox.ca> References: <5662A9F2.3040200@toybox.ca> Message-ID: <20151205182109.GL21217@hendricks.amyl.org.uk> On Sat, Dec 05, 2015 at 01:10:10AM -0800, Terri Oda wrote: > 3. Find out how to report a bug > > We kind of fail on this one, except if you want to report a security > issue. Again, this is more complex than it might seem since there's > a bunch of different components. Would it be easier here, to list the components, and then maybe link to the docs, and roadmap/issue tracker? something better presented than: | mailman 2 | stable version | docs | bug tracker | mm-users | | mailman bundler | everything | docs | bug tracker | mm-devs | | posterious | | hyperkitty | or maybe a page linking to each item? Something like https://www.mysociety.org/projects/components/ (usual disclosure: I'm a co-founder of mySociety). > 4. Find the docs / get help with an issue. > > The good: they're linked right there in the top bar. The bad: is > someone looking at this going to know they want the docs for > postorius vs hyperkitty? Will any of that make sense? I think we > might need a landing page here. Maybe clarified in the above layout suggestion? > * Get Mailman > - Links to source code and install guides, high level description of > what to do. Possibly also things like packages.debian.org/mailman etc; homebrew; I would expect that most people will install with their package manager, despite what 'we' might prefer. > * Help and Documentation > - landing page with a link to the docs, wiki and mailing lists, with > instructions. Maybe some search boxes? Userguides go here too. > * Report an issue / Contact Us > - landing page with reminder about reporting security bugs, links to > bug trackers, mailing lists, irc Link to the hot topics (dmarc, install, what ever's currently getting the most hits in a given period)? > * How to Contribute > - new contributors guide here, prefaced by the basic source/gitlab links Avoid duplication here, maybe, and just link to the Sphinx/RTD pages? Fairly sure I've seen a CONTRIBUTE file, somewhere. Maybe also link to coding standards (I think these are unified for the various components). > Thoughts on better ways to set this up? Other suggestions of things > people often want out of our website? Do ordinary folk want to find "where can i get one of these set-up for me" -- the vendors/hosting list, perhaps -- although maybe with some sort of ratings thing (and a last updated / which versions). -- "You can't say that, because it's true." (unnamed Russian censor, to Malcom Muggeridge, 1933) From terri at toybox.ca Sat Dec 5 16:28:55 2015 From: terri at toybox.ca (Terri Oda) Date: Sat, 5 Dec 2015 13:28:55 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Website re-org? In-Reply-To: <20151205182109.GL21217@hendricks.amyl.org.uk> References: <5662A9F2.3040200@toybox.ca> <20151205182109.GL21217@hendricks.amyl.org.uk> Message-ID: <56635717.4040707@toybox.ca> On 2015-12-05 10:21 AM, Adam McGreggor wrote: > On Sat, Dec 05, 2015 at 01:10:10AM -0800, Terri Oda wrote: >> 3. Find out how to report a bug >> We kind of fail on this one, except if you want to report a security >> issue. Again, this is more complex than it might seem since there's >> a bunch of different components. > Would it be easier here, to list the components, and then maybe link > to the docs, and roadmap/issue tracker? > > something better presented than: > > | mailman 2 | stable version | docs | bug tracker | mm-users | > | mailman bundler | everything | docs | bug tracker | mm-devs | > | posterious | > | hyperkitty | > > or maybe a page linking to each item? Something like > https://www.mysociety.org/projects/components/ (usual disclosure: I'm > a co-founder of mySociety). > Yeah, my biggest concern with the table approach is actually that people won't know what component they're using when they want to report a bug. I think we can probably do something more like the latter and then suggest that people submit against suite or maybe core if they're not sure and we'll move bugs as needed. How does moving bugs work in gitlab? I haven't had to do it yet. Actually, the "what component am I using?" is a problem in a few places. Maybe something more extensive on the front page explaining the projects and then on all the other pages we can say things like "HyperKitty web archiver" and link to the docs for more explanation. >> 4. Find the docs / get help with an issue. >> >> The good: they're linked right there in the top bar. The bad: is >> someone looking at this going to know they want the docs for >> postorius vs hyperkitty? Will any of that make sense? I think we >> might need a landing page here. > > Maybe clarified in the above layout suggestion? Indeed. >> * Get Mailman >> - Links to source code and install guides, high level description of >> what to do. > > Possibly also things like packages.debian.org/mailman etc; homebrew; I > would expect that most people will install with their package manager, > despite what 'we' might prefer. We've never bothered to link all the various packages for various distros before, but I do think we might need some explanation here if it turns out there's a lot of different names for the suite packages. I know we have some rpms, but does anyone have those actually in a distro yet that we could point at? In my experience, pointing at packages not in distro upstream isn't any better for many admins than PyPI is. >> * Help and Documentation > Link to the hot topics (dmarc, install, what ever's currently getting > the most hits in a given period)? Ooh, good idea. Wonder if we can automate this from wiki hits? Probably fine to just choose a couple manually, though; they don't tend to change that rapidly. >> * How to Contribute >> - new contributors guide here, prefaced by the basic source/gitlab links > > Avoid duplication here, maybe, and just link to the Sphinx/RTD pages? > Fairly sure I've seen a CONTRIBUTE file, somewhere. Maybe also link to > coding standards (I think these are unified for the various > components). We do somewhere have a CONTRIBUTE file, but if I recall correctly, it's clear to experienced open source contributors but not so useful to folk for whom mailman is their first project who'll need more extensive links to resources and answers to common questions. Since we get a lot of GSoC student aspirants and folk who meet one of us and think "these seem like nice people, maybe I'll make my first open source contribution with them," I think there's good reason to have something a bit more extensive than the existing CONTRIBUTE stuff. That said, this new-contributors document might be just as well placed in the wiki so all community members can update it more easily. >> Thoughts on better ways to set this up? Other suggestions of things >> people often want out of our website? > > Do ordinary folk want to find "where can i get one of these set-up for > me" -- the vendors/hosting list, perhaps -- although maybe with some > sort of ratings thing (and a last updated / which versions). Yes! We have a page on the wiki for hosting services to add themselves and we should link it. I don't think we have resources to maintain ratings or version info, but if you're interested in doing that, I think people would find it useful. I assume this should be linked in the "Get Mailman" section? Terri From terri at toybox.ca Sat Dec 5 18:48:48 2015 From: terri at toybox.ca (Terri Oda) Date: Sat, 5 Dec 2015 15:48:48 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Upgrading from Mailman 3.0 installed with mailman-bundler: sassc error Message-ID: <566377E0.601@toybox.ca> Hit an issue while upgrading mailman bundler that I'm just going to note here in case it affects anyone else. After upgrading, I go to the web interface and try to log in only to get the following error: ?/bin/sh: sassc: command not found? Which as a security person is the type of error message I least like seeing, but that's another story. ;) This thankfully made me think of the last commit message in mailman-bundler, and the commits helped me figure out the rest: https://gitlab.com/mailman/mailman-bundler/commit/3d6555acd640d77f510b786e5ebae379c73cf6bd the solution is 1. install rubygem-sass 2. update mailman_web/development.py so that COMPRESS_PRECOMPILERS asks for sass instead of sassc I'm sure I'm going to find a few more bugs as I go, but I wanted to note that one before I forgot. Terri From adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk Sat Dec 5 20:44:32 2015 From: adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk (Adam McGreggor) Date: Sun, 6 Dec 2015 01:44:32 +0000 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Website re-org? In-Reply-To: <56635717.4040707@toybox.ca> References: <5662A9F2.3040200@toybox.ca> <20151205182109.GL21217@hendricks.amyl.org.uk> <56635717.4040707@toybox.ca> Message-ID: <20151206014432.GM21217@hendricks.amyl.org.uk> On Sat, Dec 05, 2015 at 01:28:55PM -0800, Terri Oda wrote: > On 2015-12-05 10:21 AM, Adam McGreggor wrote: > >On Sat, Dec 05, 2015 at 01:10:10AM -0800, Terri Oda wrote: > How does moving bugs work in gitlab? I haven't had to do it yet. Or even linking to issues raised in other repos?? > Actually, the "what component am I using?" is a problem in a few > places. Maybe something more extensive on the front page explaining > the projects and then on all the other pages we can say things like > "HyperKitty web archiver" and link to the docs for more explanation. I've grown rather partial to foo-meta repos, purely for bug reports, design spec, common docs for whole projects with multiple components; admitedly, I'm more used to using GitHub and linking to issues raised in meta in components (but meh, FSF dogma/policy?) > >>* Get Mailman > >>- Links to source code and install guides, high level description of > >>what to do. > > > >Possibly also things like packages.debian.org/mailman etc; homebrew; I > >would expect that most people will install with their package manager, > >despite what 'we' might prefer. > > We've never bothered to link all the various packages for various > distros before, but I do think we might need some explanation here > if it turns out there's a lot of different names for the suite > packages. There is that, too, yes? > I know we have some rpms, but does anyone have those > actually in a distro yet that we could point at? In my experience, > pointing at packages not in distro upstream isn't any better for > many admins than PyPI is. ~My~ preference for installing stuff is: - disto repos (incl. backports) - semi-official repos (e.g. ppas, vendor's repos) - cpan/pypi/gems - build from source Others might throw in things like Docker at the top, but I'm unimpressed with Docker. > >>* Help and Documentation > >Link to the hot topics (dmarc, install, what ever's currently getting > >the most hits in a given period)? > > Ooh, good idea. Wonder if we can automate this from wiki hits? Or indeed, the analytics (which I'm guessing we have, but CBA'd checking). > Probably fine to just choose a couple manually, though; they don't > tend to change that rapidly. Larry's Laziness, Impatience, Hubris springs to mind here? > >>* How to Contribute > >>- new contributors guide here, prefaced by the basic source/gitlab links > > > >Avoid duplication here, maybe, and just link to the Sphinx/RTD pages? > >Fairly sure I've seen a CONTRIBUTE file, somewhere. Maybe also link to > >coding standards (I think these are unified for the various > >components). > > We do somewhere have a CONTRIBUTE file, but if I recall correctly, > it's clear to experienced open source contributors but not so useful > to folk for whom mailman is their first project who'll need more > extensive links to resources and answers to common questions. Ah yes, My First Open Source Project? > Since > we get a lot of GSoC student aspirants and folk who meet one of us > and think "these seem like nice people, maybe I'll make my first > open source contribution with them," I think there's good reason to > have something a bit more extensive than the existing CONTRIBUTE > stuff. I imagine there's content that's available already, too, for My First Project, for some reason, I'm thinking it's the sort of thing Mozilla will have done a fair few iterations on (and will be nicely licensed). > That said, this new-contributors document might be just as well > placed in the wiki so all community members can update it more > easily. Maybe it's just me, but the Wiki doesn't look that user-friendly as it currently stands. > >>Thoughts on better ways to set this up? Other suggestions of things > >>people often want out of our website? > > > >Do ordinary folk want to find "where can i get one of these set-up for > >me" -- the vendors/hosting list, perhaps -- although maybe with some > >sort of ratings thing (and a last updated / which versions). > > Yes! We have a page on the wiki for hosting services to add > themselves and we should link it. I don't think we have resources > to maintain ratings or version info, but if you're interested in > doing that, I think people would find it useful. I assume this > should be linked in the "Get Mailman" section? It'd be useful to run a linkchecker, at least? From stephen at xemacs.org Sun Dec 6 15:22:01 2015 From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull) Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2015 05:22:01 +0900 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Upgrading from Mailman 3.0 installed with mailman-bundler: sassc error In-Reply-To: <566377E0.601@toybox.ca> References: <566377E0.601@toybox.ca> Message-ID: <22116.39145.610316.336207@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> Terri Oda writes: > the solution is > 1. install rubygem-sass > 2. update mailman_web/development.py so that COMPRESS_PRECOMPILERS asks > for sass instead of sassc I suppose the idea was to depend on sassc and libsass rather than Ruby. Do we really need to introduce a dependency on Ruby? Won't that pull in a whole ecosystem? From fsantiago at garbage-juice.com Mon Dec 7 17:06:44 2015 From: fsantiago at garbage-juice.com (fsantiago at garbage-juice.com) Date: Mon, 07 Dec 2015 17:06:44 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] MM3 trying to buildout / errors Message-ID: <349c1729450d048fd1f16a4adc4f85e3@garbage-juice.com> Why on centos 7 do i receive the following when attempting to build MM3 using the mailman-bundler package: (venv)[mailman3 at mail mailman-bundler-3.0.0]$ buildout Creating directory '/downloads/mailman-bundler-3.0.0/eggs'. Creating directory '/downloads/mailman-bundler-3.0.0/bin'. Creating directory '/downloads/mailman-bundler-3.0.0/parts'. Creating directory '/downloads/mailman-bundler-3.0.0/develop-eggs'. Develop: '/downloads/mailman-bundler-3.0.0/.' warning: no files found matching '*.in' under directory 'mailman_bundler' warning: no files found matching '*.in' under directory 'deployment' warning: no files found matching 'deployment/mailman-web.logrotate.conf' Getting distribution for 'djangorecipe'. warning: no previously-included files found matching 'Makefile' warning: no previously-included files found matching '*.yml' warning: no previously-included files found matching 'bootstrap.py' Got djangorecipe 2.1.2. Getting distribution for 'Django'. no previously-included directories found matching 'django/contrib/admin/bin' warning: no previously-included files matching '__pycache__' found under directory '*' File "build/bdist.linux-x86_64/egg/django/conf/app_template/apps.py", line 4 class {{ camel_case_app_name }}Config(AppConfig): ^ SyntaxError: invalid syntax File "build/bdist.linux-x86_64/egg/django/conf/app_template/models.py", line 1 {{ unicode_literals }}from django.db import models ^ SyntaxError: invalid syntax File "/downloads/mailman-bundler-3.0.0/eggs/tmpR9TGDA/Django-1.9-py2.7.egg/django/conf/app_template/apps.py", line 4 class {{ camel_case_app_name }}Config(AppConfig): ^ SyntaxError: invalid syntax File "/downloads/mailman-bundler-3.0.0/eggs/tmpR9TGDA/Django-1.9-py2.7.egg/django/conf/app_template/models.py", line 1 {{ unicode_literals }}from django.db import models ^ SyntaxError: invalid syntax Got Django 1.9. Getting distribution for 'zc.recipe.egg>=2.0.0a3'. Got zc.recipe.egg 2.0.3. Getting distribution for 'collective.recipe.cmd'. warning: no previously-included files matching '*.pyc' found anywhere in distribution warning: no previously-included files found matching 'bootstrap.py' warning: no previously-included files found matching 'buildout.cfg' warning: no previously-included files found matching 'tox.ini' Got collective.recipe.cmd 0.11. Getting distribution for 'z3c.recipe.filetemplate'. Got z3c.recipe.filetemplate 2.2.0. templates: No template found for these file names: *.in While: Installing. Getting section templates. Initializing section templates. Error: No template found for these file names: *.in (venv)[mailman3 at mail mailman-bundler-3.0.0]$ ?????? Thanks. - Fabian S. From barry at list.org Mon Dec 7 17:35:53 2015 From: barry at list.org (Barry Warsaw) Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2015 17:35:53 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Upgrading from Mailman 3.0 installed with mailman-bundler: sassc error In-Reply-To: <22116.39145.610316.336207@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> References: <566377E0.601@toybox.ca> <22116.39145.610316.336207@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> Message-ID: <20151207173553.21985afc@limelight.wooz.org> On Dec 07, 2015, at 05:22 AM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: >Do we really need to introduce a dependency on Ruby? Gosh, I hope not! -Barry From barry at list.org Mon Dec 7 17:47:26 2015 From: barry at list.org (Barry Warsaw) Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2015 17:47:26 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Website re-org? In-Reply-To: <5662A9F2.3040200@toybox.ca> References: <5662A9F2.3040200@toybox.ca> Message-ID: <20151207174726.153fb286@limelight.wooz.org> On Dec 05, 2015, at 01:10 AM, Terri Oda wrote: >Abhilash did a lovely job on the new website, but while the layout has >changed, a lot of the content hasn't. And I'm not sure what we've got lines >up very with what people want out of our website, so I'm thinking about >re-organizing. Big +1. >2. Find out how to get and install the latest version of Mailman. > >Need improvement here. Mailman 2.1 download links are good. Mailman 3 >directs you to PyPI but then there's nothing explaining about how Mailman now >is a suite and it's this bunch of packages. Also nothing about how you can >use mailman-bundler rather than trying to make the magic happen yourself. We have something of a landing page, minimal as it is: http://docs.mailman3.org/en/latest/ and its git repo: https://gitlab.com/mailman/mailman-suite-doc Certainly the content could be expanded on and improved, but I'm not sure whether it makes sense to exit from the website to this readthedocs page or pull the content into the website. We probably don't need it in multiple locations. >3. Find out how to report a bug > >We kind of fail on this one, except if you want to report a security issue. >Again, this is more complex than it might seem since there's a bunch of >different components. http://www.list.org/devs.html Probably not the most discoverable, or readable though. >4. Find the docs / get help with an issue. > >The good: they're linked right there in the top bar. The bad: is someone >looking at this going to know they want the docs for postorius vs hyperkitty? >Will any of that make sense? I think we might need a landing page here. I sense a theme. :) >5. Find out how to contribute. > >This is going to be especially gsoc students. We've got some nice developer >links and yeay, this is one of the pages that lists out all the parts of >Mailman! But we could really use a startup guide here. For sure. >7. Learn more about Mailman > >We've got some good resources: features, media, the code of conduct, etc. >But probably we should group this all together so that it's easier for people >to find the other important things they want without wading through all these >links. > >I'd suggest we keep the top of page links as they are, since they're super >useful to people who know what they're looking for already, and have the left >side menu be more about the guides. > >But I think we should replace all the links down the left-hand side of the >page with links that match up with those goals, so the menu would probably >look something like: > >* About Mailman >- combine all the about mailman stuff here, although we also want to leave the main page as is, so there may be a bit of duplication here. >* Get Mailman >- Links to source code and install guides, high level description of what to do. >* Help and Documentation >- landing page with a link to the docs, wiki and mailing lists, with instructions. Maybe some search boxes? Userguides go here too. >* Report an issue / Contact Us >- landing page with reminder about reporting security bugs, links to bug trackers, mailing lists, irc >* How to Contribute >- new contributors guide here, prefaced by the basic source/gitlab links > >Thoughts on better ways to set this up? Other suggestions of things people >often want out of our website? A lot of that makes sense Terri, and thanks for thinking about this. High level bits seem to me that we need a richer landing page for Mailman 3 that brings all the resources for that version together, and better left hand menus. Cheers, -Barry From fsantiago at garbage-juice.com Tue Dec 8 05:38:11 2015 From: fsantiago at garbage-juice.com (Fabian Santiago) Date: Tue, 8 Dec 2015 05:38:11 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Fwd: Request to mailing list Tom rejected References: Message-ID: <4A67C710-7800-4FD3-A6A6-80C36ED278B0@garbage-juice.com> Someone subscribed a list to this list? Sincerely, Fabian Santiago Sent from my iPhone Begin forwarded message: > From: tom-owner at esestudios.com > Date: December 8, 2015 at 1:03:36 AM EST > To: fsantiago at garbage-juice.com > Subject: Request to mailing list Tom rejected > > Your request to the Tom mailing list > > Posting of your message titled "[Mailman-Developers] MM3 trying to > buildout / errors" > > has been rejected by the list moderator. The moderator gave the > following reason for rejecting your request: > > "Blind carbon copies or other implicit destinations are not allowed. > Try reposting your message by explicitly including the list address in > the To: or Cc: fields." > > Any questions or comments should be directed to the list administrator > at: > > tom-owner at esestudios.com From stephen at xemacs.org Wed Dec 9 12:22:15 2015 From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull) Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2015 02:22:15 +0900 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Fwd: Request to mailing list Tom rejected In-Reply-To: <4A67C710-7800-4FD3-A6A6-80C36ED278B0@garbage-juice.com> References: <4A67C710-7800-4FD3-A6A6-80C36ED278B0@garbage-juice.com> Message-ID: <22120.25415.762789.580568@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> Fabian Santiago writes: > Someone subscribed a list to this list? We can't know. Write to someone who might: tom-owner at esestudios.com: > > Your request to the Tom mailing list > > > > Posting of your message titled "[Mailman-Developers] MM3 trying to > > buildout / errors" > > > > has been rejected > > Any questions or comments should be directed to the list administrator > > at: > > > > tom-owner at esestudios.com From terri at toybox.ca Wed Dec 9 22:55:02 2015 From: terri at toybox.ca (Terri Oda) Date: Wed, 9 Dec 2015 19:55:02 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] A list where no subscriber can post: can anyone spot the bad config? Message-ID: <5668F796.2070505@toybox.ca> I've got a list where, for some reason, I can post, but no one else seems to be able to. It *looks* like I can post because I was somehow in accept_these_nonmembers. It's a list converted from Mailman 2.1, so I'm suspicious that it's some sort of cruft in the config. I'm pasting in a mildly anonymized version of the config. Can anyone spot anything that could be causing all messages to go to moderation? This list is also on a mailman bundler install that may not have been updated correctly (aka I guessed and tried buildout on it), but the problems with posting predate that. I think, honestly, that I'm at the point where I should dump the rosters and re-recreate all the lists on this machine. (They're relatively small, all under 20 subscribers I think) >>> pprint(vars(m)) {'_list_id': 'gf.lists.example.com', '_preferred_language': 'en', '_sa_instance_state': , 'accept_these_nonmembers': ['c at example.com', 'terri at toybox.ca', 'd at example.com', 'j at example.com', 'a at example.com', 'v at example.com'], 'admin_immed_notify': True, 'admin_notify_mchanges': True, 'administrators': , 'administrivia': False, 'advertised': False, 'allow_list_posts': True, 'anonymous_list': False, 'archive_policy': , 'autorespond_owner': , 'autorespond_postings': , 'autorespond_requests': , 'autoresponse_grace_period': datetime.timedelta(90), 'autoresponse_owner_text': '', 'autoresponse_postings_text': '', 'autoresponse_request_text': '', 'bounce_info_stale_after': datetime.timedelta(7), 'bounce_matching_headers': '\n' "# Lines that *start* with a '#' are comments.\n" 'to: friend at public.com\n' 'message-id: relay.comanche.denmark.eu\n' 'from: list at listme.com\n' 'from: .*@uplinkpro.com\n', 'bounce_notify_owner_on_disable': True, 'bounce_notify_owner_on_removal': True, 'bounce_score_threshold': 5, 'bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings': 3, 'bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings_interval': datetime.timedelta(7), 'collapse_alternatives': True, 'convert_html_to_plaintext': True, 'created_at': datetime.datetime(2014, 2, 12, 9, 30, 13, 418107), 'default_member_action': , 'default_nonmember_action': , 'description': '', 'digest_footer_uri': 'mailman:///$listname/$language/footer-generic.txt', 'digest_header_uri': None, 'digest_is_default': False, 'digest_last_sent_at': datetime.datetime(2015, 11, 4, 18, 39, 56, 724986), 'digest_members': , 'digest_send_periodic': True, 'digest_size_threshold': 30.0, 'digest_volume_frequency': , 'digestable': True, 'discard_these_nonmembers': [], 'display_name': 'Gf', 'emergency': False, 'encode_ascii_prefixes': False, 'filter_action': , 'filter_content': False, 'first_strip_reply_to': False, 'footer_uri': 'mailman:///$listname/$language/footer-generic.txt', 'forward_auto_discards': True, 'forward_unrecognized_bounces_to': , 'gateway_to_mail': False, 'gateway_to_news': False, 'goodbye_message_uri': '', 'header_matches': [], 'header_uri': None, 'hold_these_nonmembers': [], 'id': 1, 'include_rfc2369_headers': True, 'info': '', 'last_post_at': datetime.datetime(2015, 8, 19, 8, 12, 6, 169075), 'linked_newsgroup': '', 'list_name': 'gf', 'mail_host': 'lists.example.com', 'max_days_to_hold': 0, 'max_message_size': 0, 'max_num_recipients': 10, 'member_moderation_notice': '', 'members': , 'mime_is_default_digest': False, 'moderator_password': None, 'moderators': , 'newsgroup_moderation': , 'next_digest_number': 1, 'next_request_id': 25, 'nntp_prefix_subject_too': True, 'nondigestable': True, 'nonmember_rejection_notice': '', 'nonmembers': , 'obscure_addresses': True, 'owner_chain': 'default-owner-chain', 'owner_pipeline': 'default-owner-pipeline', 'owners': , 'personalize': , 'post_id': 1138, 'posting_chain': 'default-posting-chain', 'posting_pipeline': 'default-posting-pipeline', 'process_bounces': True, 'regular_members': , 'reject_these_nonmembers': [], 'reply_goes_to_list': , 'reply_to_address': '', 'require_explicit_destination': False, 'respond_to_post_requests': True, 'scrub_nondigest': False, 'send_goodbye_message': True, 'send_welcome_message': True, 'subject_prefix': '[GF] ', 'subscribers': , 'subscription_policy': , 'topics': [], 'topics_bodylines_limit': 5, 'topics_enabled': False, 'volume': 22, 'welcome_message_uri': 'mailman:///$listname/$language/welcome.txt'} From terri at toybox.ca Wed Dec 9 23:18:25 2015 From: terri at toybox.ca (Terri Oda) Date: Wed, 9 Dec 2015 20:18:25 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Website re-org? In-Reply-To: <20151206014432.GM21217@hendricks.amyl.org.uk> References: <5662A9F2.3040200@toybox.ca> <20151205182109.GL21217@hendricks.amyl.org.uk> <56635717.4040707@toybox.ca> <20151206014432.GM21217@hendricks.amyl.org.uk> Message-ID: <5668FD11.8080709@toybox.ca> On 2015-12-05 5:44 PM, Adam McGreggor wrote: >> Since >> we get a lot of GSoC student aspirants and folk who meet one of us >> and think "these seem like nice people, maybe I'll make my first >> open source contribution with them," I think there's good reason to >> have something a bit more extensive than the existing CONTRIBUTE >> stuff. > > I imagine there's content that's available already, too, for My First > Project, for some reason, I'm thinking it's the sort of thing Mozilla > will have done a fair few iterations on (and will be nicely licensed). Yes, such content exists, and we can link to some of it, but it's typically too general for a beginner who doesn't yet know how to handle that. I spend literally hundreds of hours a year talking to students about where they get stuck as new contributors as part of my role as the Python GSoC coordinator, plus I hang out in the OpenHatch channel (they're one of many orgs that works to make the "how do i get started?" docs better) and I hear the "I got this far but then there were no architecture docs and I got overwhelmed" and variants on it a lot. We need those architecture docs and that bridging stuff that goes from "how to github" to "what does mailman want in a pull request and how many tests do I need to include if I want to make Barry happy?" It's a moot point to argue about it, anyhow. Either I write this now for the website or I write it 40 times on IRC in February while the students complain that I'm not answering them fast enough, and I know which one I'd prefer! ;) Terri From terri at toybox.ca Thu Dec 10 00:00:18 2015 From: terri at toybox.ca (Terri Oda) Date: Wed, 9 Dec 2015 21:00:18 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] MM3 trying to buildout / errors In-Reply-To: <349c1729450d048fd1f16a4adc4f85e3@garbage-juice.com> References: <349c1729450d048fd1f16a4adc4f85e3@garbage-juice.com> Message-ID: <566906E2.4060102@toybox.ca> I don't know what's causing this, but I can confirm that it also happens in Fedora 21 with a just-cloned version of bundler. On 2015-12-07 2:06 PM, fsantiago at garbage-juice.com wrote: > Why on centos 7 do i receive the following when attempting to build MM3 > using the mailman-bundler package: > > (venv)[mailman3 at mail mailman-bundler-3.0.0]$ buildout > Creating directory '/downloads/mailman-bundler-3.0.0/eggs'. > Creating directory '/downloads/mailman-bundler-3.0.0/bin'. > Creating directory '/downloads/mailman-bundler-3.0.0/parts'. > Creating directory '/downloads/mailman-bundler-3.0.0/develop-eggs'. > Develop: '/downloads/mailman-bundler-3.0.0/.' > warning: no files found matching '*.in' under directory 'mailman_bundler' > warning: no files found matching '*.in' under directory 'deployment' > warning: no files found matching 'deployment/mailman-web.logrotate.conf' > Getting distribution for 'djangorecipe'. > warning: no previously-included files found matching 'Makefile' > warning: no previously-included files found matching '*.yml' > warning: no previously-included files found matching 'bootstrap.py' > Got djangorecipe 2.1.2. > Getting distribution for 'Django'. > no previously-included directories found matching > 'django/contrib/admin/bin' > warning: no previously-included files matching '__pycache__' found under > directory '*' > File "build/bdist.linux-x86_64/egg/django/conf/app_template/apps.py", > line 4 > class {{ camel_case_app_name }}Config(AppConfig): > ^ > SyntaxError: invalid syntax > > File > "build/bdist.linux-x86_64/egg/django/conf/app_template/models.py", line 1 > {{ unicode_literals }}from django.db import models > ^ > SyntaxError: invalid syntax > > File > "/downloads/mailman-bundler-3.0.0/eggs/tmpR9TGDA/Django-1.9-py2.7.egg/django/conf/app_template/apps.py", > line 4 > class {{ camel_case_app_name }}Config(AppConfig): > ^ > SyntaxError: invalid syntax > > File > "/downloads/mailman-bundler-3.0.0/eggs/tmpR9TGDA/Django-1.9-py2.7.egg/django/conf/app_template/models.py", > line 1 > {{ unicode_literals }}from django.db import models > ^ > SyntaxError: invalid syntax > > Got Django 1.9. > Getting distribution for 'zc.recipe.egg>=2.0.0a3'. > Got zc.recipe.egg 2.0.3. > Getting distribution for 'collective.recipe.cmd'. > warning: no previously-included files matching '*.pyc' found anywhere in > distribution > warning: no previously-included files found matching 'bootstrap.py' > warning: no previously-included files found matching 'buildout.cfg' > warning: no previously-included files found matching 'tox.ini' > Got collective.recipe.cmd 0.11. > Getting distribution for 'z3c.recipe.filetemplate'. > Got z3c.recipe.filetemplate 2.2.0. > templates: No template found for these file names: *.in > While: > Installing. > Getting section templates. > Initializing section templates. > Error: No template found for these file names: *.in > (venv)[mailman3 at mail mailman-bundler-3.0.0]$ > > > ?????? > > Thanks. > > - Fabian S. > _______________________________________________ > Mailman-Developers mailing list > Mailman-Developers at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers > Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 > Searchable Archives: > http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-developers%40python.org/ > Unsubscribe: > https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-developers/terri%40toybox.ca > > > Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 > From terri at toybox.ca Thu Dec 10 03:37:19 2015 From: terri at toybox.ca (Terri Oda) Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2015 00:37:19 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Upgrading from Mailman 3.0 installed with mailman-bundler: sassc error In-Reply-To: <566377E0.601@toybox.ca> References: <566377E0.601@toybox.ca> Message-ID: <566939BF.8090209@toybox.ca> On 2015-12-05 3:48 PM, Terri Oda wrote: > 2. update mailman_web/development.py so that COMPRESS_PRECOMPILERS asks > for sass instead of sassc Follow-up on this. I tried this on a fresh mailman-bundler install and you do indeed see the same problem. I changed the config in development.py and pushed my change, so hopefully people won't get hit by it going forwards. ... and I just realized I probably need to fix this in production.py as well. phooey. I'll go do that. Terri From barry at list.org Thu Dec 10 10:21:08 2015 From: barry at list.org (Barry Warsaw) Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2015 10:21:08 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] A list where no subscriber can post: can anyone spot the bad config? In-Reply-To: <5668F796.2070505@toybox.ca> References: <5668F796.2070505@toybox.ca> Message-ID: <20151210102108.0cbefce0@limelight.wooz.org> On Dec 09, 2015, at 07:55 PM, Terri Oda wrote: >I've got a list where, for some reason, I can post, but no one else seems to >be able to. > >It *looks* like I can post because I was somehow in accept_these_nonmembers. >It's a list converted from Mailman 2.1, so I'm suspicious that it's some sort >of cruft in the config. I'm pasting in a mildly anonymized version of the >config. Can anyone spot anything that could be causing all messages to go to >moderation? > 'members': , Try dumping this roster and see if it contains what you think it should contain. Something like: >>> pprint(list(m.members.addresses)) Cheers, -Barry From barry at list.org Fri Dec 11 10:46:47 2015 From: barry at list.org (Barry Warsaw) Date: Fri, 11 Dec 2015 10:46:47 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Mailman 3 production setup testbed In-Reply-To: <22114.63209.405723.443182@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> References: <566295C2.3060105@toybox.ca> <22114.63209.405723.443182@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> Message-ID: <20151211104647.23e595c0@limelight.wooz.org> On Dec 05, 2015, at 11:38 PM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: >Personally, I'd like to get out of the main hierarchies; splitting >things across /etc, /usr and /var is annoying. So /opt/mailman looks >really good to me. +1 Distro packagers will probably make different decisions, but that's okay too. If there's anything in our configs that don't allow installation to /opt/mailman and traditional locations, then that's a bug! Cheers, -Barry From stephen at xemacs.org Sat Dec 12 03:13:20 2015 From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull) Date: Sat, 12 Dec 2015 17:13:20 +0900 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] /opt vs traditional install [was: Mailman 3 production setup testbed] In-Reply-To: <20151211104647.23e595c0@limelight.wooz.org> References: <566295C2.3060105@toybox.ca> <22114.63209.405723.443182@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <20151211104647.23e595c0@limelight.wooz.org> Message-ID: <22123.55073.78.287420@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> Note: subject adjusted to reality. Barry Warsaw writes: > On Dec 05, 2015, at 11:38 PM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: > > >So /opt/mailman looks really good to me. > > +1 > > Distro packagers will probably make different decisions, but that's okay too. Of course! After all we don't have to deal with actually doing it. ;-) (Presented company *not* excepted IIRC? I hope?! Wouldn't want to impose extra work on Our FLUFLous Leader!!!) > If there's anything in our configs that don't allow installation to > /opt/mailman and traditional locations, then that's a bug! Indeed. But surely it's not terribly hard to allow both kinds of installation if we just avoid hard-coded references (including relative references) to config and data files. From barry at list.org Sat Dec 12 18:32:50 2015 From: barry at list.org (Barry Warsaw) Date: Sat, 12 Dec 2015 18:32:50 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] /opt vs traditional install [was: Mailman 3 production setup testbed] In-Reply-To: <22123.55073.78.287420@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> References: <566295C2.3060105@toybox.ca> <22114.63209.405723.443182@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <20151211104647.23e595c0@limelight.wooz.org> <22123.55073.78.287420@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> Message-ID: <20151212183250.4c41876d@anarchist.wooz.org> On Dec 12, 2015, at 05:13 PM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: >Of course! After all we don't have to deal with actually doing >it. ;-) (Presented company *not* excepted IIRC? I hope?! Wouldn't >want to impose extra work on Our FLUFLous Leader!!!) I'm certainly hoping other folks will run with the packaging issues, both inside and outside distros. I'm really trying to free some brain cells to dive into mailmania (and yes, we still need a better name for that :). > > If there's anything in our configs that don't allow installation to > > /opt/mailman and traditional locations, then that's a bug! > >Indeed. But surely it's not terribly hard to allow both kinds of >installation if we just avoid hard-coded references (including >relative references) to config and data files. Right. There should be no hard-coded references; everything should be configurable via the mailman.cfg file. Cheers, -Barry -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 819 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From becue at crans.org Mon Dec 14 11:01:57 2015 From: becue at crans.org (Pierre-Elliott =?iso-8859-1?Q?B=E9cue?=) Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2015 17:01:57 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Let's try to package mailman3 in Debian! In-Reply-To: <20151123015627.GB10971@crans.org> References: <20150910224944.GM8564@crans.org> <20151123015627.GB10971@crans.org> Message-ID: <20151214160157.GF25749@crans.org> Le lundi 23 novembre 2015 ? 02:56:27+0100, Pierre-Elliott B?cue a ?crit?: > Le vendredi 11 septembre 2015 ? 00:49:44+0200, Pierre-Elliott B?cue a ?crit?: > > [packaging mailman3] > > Hey, > > Here is an update. > > For now on, I focused on mailman3-core package in order to get good > practices working. > > One can find my work here : https://github.com/P-EB/mailman3-core > > I'm working on having working systemd/sysv services and after that it'll be > a good idea to try installing the package and see how it goes. > > I also have to design a good config file for debian, (see > debian/contrib/mailman.cfg in master branch). Any suggestion is welcome! > > Cheers Small bump here, I'd appreciate if somebody finds the time to tell me two things: * Is my config file enough for a start?? * Is my systemd service good to have mailman started properly?? I'd rather be sure it's okay before writing a sysv service. You can find contrib files in debian/contrib. Cheers :) -- PEB From becue at crans.org Mon Dec 14 11:49:25 2015 From: becue at crans.org (Pierre-Elliott =?iso-8859-1?Q?B=E9cue?=) Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2015 17:49:25 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Let's try to package mailman3 in Debian! In-Reply-To: <566EEFFA.8090305@serve-me.info> References: <20150910224944.GM8564@crans.org> <20151123015627.GB10971@crans.org> <20151214160157.GF25749@crans.org> <566EEFFA.8090305@serve-me.info> Message-ID: <20151214164925.GG25749@crans.org> Le lundi 14 d?cembre 2015 ? 17:36:10+0100, Simon Hanna a ?crit?: > On 12/14/2015 05:01 PM, Pierre-Elliott B?cue wrote: > >One can find my work here : https://github.com/P-EB/mailman3-core > >Small bump here, I'd appreciate if somebody finds the time to tell me two > >things: > > > > * Is my config file enough for a start ? > > * Is my systemd service good to have mailman started properly ? > You seem to be missing a "start" at the end of ExecStart Indeed, fixed! Thanks. :) -- PEB From terri at toybox.ca Mon Dec 21 17:44:59 2015 From: terri at toybox.ca (Terri Oda) Date: Mon, 21 Dec 2015 14:44:59 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] /opt vs traditional install [was: Mailman 3 production setup testbed] In-Reply-To: <20151212183250.4c41876d@anarchist.wooz.org> References: <566295C2.3060105@toybox.ca> <22114.63209.405723.443182@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <20151211104647.23e595c0@limelight.wooz.org> <22123.55073.78.287420@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <20151212183250.4c41876d@anarchist.wooz.org> Message-ID: <567880EB.3020702@toybox.ca> On 2015-12-12 3:32 PM, Barry Warsaw wrote: > Right. There should be no hard-coded references; everything should be > configurable via the mailman.cfg file. Yeah, no problems here. In fact, the *production* setup includes things to divide out the directories appropriately, the problem was mostly that our instructions start with "unpack this somewhere" for the test setup, which mostly leaves people with a running mailman install in their home directories, sometimes to their surprise. ;) Docs have been updated and I tested that it didn't cause weird behaviour to install, and the only problem was when I forgot to give myself write access to /opt/mailman before I began, which I think is more a me problem than a mailman-bundler documentation one. Terri From tom.browder at gmail.com Thu Dec 24 10:55:16 2015 From: tom.browder at gmail.com (Tom Browder) Date: Thu, 24 Dec 2015 09:55:16 -0600 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Website re-org? In-Reply-To: <20151207174726.153fb286@limelight.wooz.org> References: <5662A9F2.3040200@toybox.ca> <20151207174726.153fb286@limelight.wooz.org> Message-ID: On Mon, Dec 7, 2015 at 4:47 PM, Barry Warsaw wrote: > On Dec 05, 2015, at 01:10 AM, Terri Oda wrote: >>Abhilash did a lovely job on the new website +1 >>2. Find out how to get and install the latest version of Mailman. ... > We have something of a landing page, minimal as it is: > > http://docs.mailman3.org/en/latest/ In my opinion, that link should replace ALL other links under the Documentation menu at the top of the home page (www.list.org), and it should clearly specify MM 3, something like: Documentation Mailman 3 => http://docs.mailman3.org/en/latest/ I am ready (finally) to start new lists with MM 3 and that, I assume, is where I should look. Thanks. Best regards, -Tom From tom.browder at gmail.com Thu Dec 24 12:08:25 2015 From: tom.browder at gmail.com (Tom Browder) Date: Thu, 24 Dec 2015 11:08:25 -0600 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] MM 3 REST API Message-ID: Where should I look for the complete, definitive documentation on the MM3 REST API? I would like to use Perl for my bulk handling of mailing lists, subscriptions, etc. Thanks! -Tom From barry at list.org Sat Dec 26 12:29:25 2015 From: barry at list.org (Barry Warsaw) Date: Sat, 26 Dec 2015 12:29:25 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] MM 3 REST API In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20151226122925.7d95e941@limelight.wooz.org> On Dec 24, 2015, at 11:08 AM, Tom Browder wrote: >Where should I look for the complete, definitive documentation on the >MM3 REST API? Sadly, there's no programmatic way to gather the specifications for the REST API. The best you have is the online documentation... http://mailman.readthedocs.org/en/latest/README.html ...and the source. You can refer to two other projects which access the API though, and which might also help. https://gitlab.com/mailman/mailmanclient - is the official Python bindings to the REST API. https://gitlab.com/astuart/mailmania - is Andrew Stuart's authenticating proxy, which exposes a public REST API bridging to the internal REST API that the core exposes. At some point, we'll pull this in as an official subproject. I'd welcome contributions to help make the REST API more discoverable and/or better documented. Cheers, -Barry From barry at list.org Sat Dec 26 12:32:24 2015 From: barry at list.org (Barry Warsaw) Date: Sat, 26 Dec 2015 12:32:24 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Website re-org? In-Reply-To: References: <5662A9F2.3040200@toybox.ca> <20151207174726.153fb286@limelight.wooz.org> Message-ID: <20151226123224.179dca5d@limelight.wooz.org> On Dec 24, 2015, at 09:55 AM, Tom Browder wrote: >In my opinion, that link should replace ALL other links under the >Documentation menu at the top of the home page (www.list.org), and it >should clearly specify MM 3, something like: > > Documentation > > Mailman 3 => http://docs.mailman3.org/en/latest/ > >I am ready (finally) to start new lists with MM 3 and that, I assume, >is where I should look. Although, I do like the "quick links" nature of the Documentation menu. One less click once you know where you want to go. Maybe the docs.mailman3.org page can be linked from an "Overview" menu item? Cheers, -Barry -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 819 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From tom.browder at gmail.com Sat Dec 26 13:40:40 2015 From: tom.browder at gmail.com (Tom Browder) Date: Sat, 26 Dec 2015 12:40:40 -0600 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] MM 3 REST API In-Reply-To: <20151226122925.7d95e941@limelight.wooz.org> References: <20151226122925.7d95e941@limelight.wooz.org> Message-ID: On Sat, Dec 26, 2015 at 11:29 AM, Barry Warsaw wrote: > On Dec 24, 2015, at 11:08 AM, Tom Browder wrote: > >>Where should I look for the complete, definitive documentation on the >>MM3 REST API? ... Thanks, Barry. -Tom From andrew.stuart at supercoders.com.au Sat Dec 26 16:35:40 2015 From: andrew.stuart at supercoders.com.au (Andrew Stuart) Date: Sun, 27 Dec 2015 08:35:40 +1100 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] MM 3 REST API In-Reply-To: <20151226122925.7d95e941@limelight.wooz.org> References: <20151226122925.7d95e941@limelight.wooz.org> Message-ID: Hi Tom, This is a Swagger spedification for the MM3 REST API - it defines the entire API. Note that this specification is about six months old so changes in the past six months would not be there. The specification document is here: https://gitlab.com/astuart/mailmania/blob/master/serve_spec_mailman_rest_api/api-docs.json You can interactively navigate above the MM3 REST API Swagger specification here: http://supercoders.com.au/swagger-ui/dist/index.html (Barry if you want to put this somewhere else you just unzip this http://supercoders.com.au/mm3swagger.zip onto a web server and you?re good to go) You can also programmatically drive the MM3 REST API using the above spec - it is just JSON so you read in the URL field and construct your URL and send it. Mailmania uses it for constructing requests to the MM3 REST API and for constructing tests for the MM3 REST API. The above links and zipfile use an old version of the Swagger editor - if you want the latest version of the Swagger editor, download it here: https://github.com/swagger-api/swagger-ui Important: The Swagger specification correctly defines the available URLs and correctly defines the HTTP methods available for accessing them. https://gitlab.com/astuart/mailmania/blob/master/serve_spec_mailman_rest_api/api-docs.json The Swagger specification correctly defines MM3 REST API structure of the available URLs The Swagger specification correctly defines MM3 REST API HTTP methods available The Swagger specification correctly defines MM3 REST API input field names The Swagger specification correctly defines MM3 REST API input field parameter types (i.e. URL or form data) The Swagger specification does not correctly define response fields- any response fields present in the spec document are probably not correct. The Swagger specification does not correctly define response status codes - any response fields present in the spec document are probably not correct. The Swagger specification does not correctly define response error codes returned - any error codes present in the spec document are probably not correct. In summary, the spec should be correct for input but it is not correct for output/responses. There is probably a good project for a GSOC student to verify and update the spec and define the API response fields/codes and ensure it works with the latest Swagger editor. >>I'd welcome contributions to help make the REST API more discoverable and/or better documented. The Falcon MM3 REST API could return this as a static file to make the API discoverable: https://gitlab.com/astuart/mailmania/blob/master/serve_spec_mailman_rest_api/api-docs.json Any questions I?m happy to answer. Andrew Stuart From tom.browder at gmail.com Sat Dec 26 17:03:15 2015 From: tom.browder at gmail.com (Tom Browder) Date: Sat, 26 Dec 2015 16:03:15 -0600 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] MM 3 REST API In-Reply-To: References: <20151226122925.7d95e941@limelight.wooz.org> Message-ID: On Sat, Dec 26, 2015 at 3:35 PM, Andrew Stuart wrote: > Hi Tom, > > This is a Swagger spedification for the MM3 REST API - it defines the entire API. ... Thanks, Andrew! Best regards, -Tom From terri at toybox.ca Sat Dec 26 23:19:42 2015 From: terri at toybox.ca (Terri Oda) Date: Sat, 26 Dec 2015 20:19:42 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Website re-org? In-Reply-To: <20151226123224.179dca5d@limelight.wooz.org> References: <5662A9F2.3040200@toybox.ca> <20151207174726.153fb286@limelight.wooz.org> <20151226123224.179dca5d@limelight.wooz.org> Message-ID: <567F66DE.6010307@toybox.ca> On 2015-12-26 9:32 AM, Barry Warsaw wrote: > Although, I do like the "quick links" nature of the Documentation menu. One > less click once you know where you want to go. > > Maybe the docs.mailman3.org page can be linked from an "Overview" menu item? I use those quick links enough that I'd like to keep them too. "overview" or "START HERE" at the top of the menu should solve the problem, though. From rishab.jaju97 at gmail.com Tue Dec 29 21:32:29 2015 From: rishab.jaju97 at gmail.com (Rishab Jaju) Date: Wed, 30 Dec 2015 08:02:29 +0530 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Student looking to contribute towards GNU Mailman Message-ID: Hello everybody, I am a third year student looking to contribute towards GNU Mailman for the upcoming Google Summer of Code program. I am very proficient in C++, Java, Python and Scheme. I have done some projects in machine learning as well as NLP. What level of knowledge would I need to contribute to the project? What sort of project would be appropriate for my skill set? Thank you, Rishab Jaju. From raj.abhilash1 at gmail.com Wed Dec 30 12:15:50 2015 From: raj.abhilash1 at gmail.com (Abhilash Raj) Date: Wed, 30 Dec 2015 09:15:50 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Student looking to contribute towards GNU Mailman In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <56841146.5070306@gmail.com> Hi Rishab, On 12/29/2015 06:32 PM, Rishab Jaju wrote: > Hello everybody, > > I am a third year student looking to contribute towards GNU Mailman for the > upcoming Google Summer of Code program. > > I am very proficient in C++, Java, Python and Scheme. I have done some > projects in machine learning as well as NLP. > > What level of knowledge would I need to contribute to the project? What > sort of project would be appropriate for my skill set? There is no specific knowledge level that is required to contribute to GNU Mailman project except basic Python and common sense. You can get started by looking at the issues and reading code for the mailman project that you can find at the project website. If it is not already clear from the website, I would tell you that the development is focused around Mailman 3.0 and its sister projects. Getting started is same as every year, so you can look at the last year's GSoC page in the mailman wiki till we create and update the new page for 2016. > > Thank you, > Rishab Jaju. > _______________________________________________ > Mailman-Developers mailing list > Mailman-Developers at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers > Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 > Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-developers%40python.org/ > Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-developers/raj.abhilash1%40gmail.com > > Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 > -- thanks, Abhilash Raj -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 819 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From rishab.jaju97 at gmail.com Wed Dec 30 22:29:20 2015 From: rishab.jaju97 at gmail.com (Rishab Jaju) Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2015 08:59:20 +0530 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Student looking to contribute towards GNU Mailman In-Reply-To: <56841146.5070306@gmail.com> References: <56841146.5070306@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi Abhilash, I am interested in the following project: "Subscriber Profile Pages". Can I work on this project, or is somebody else working on it? On Wed, Dec 30, 2015 at 10:45 PM, Abhilash Raj wrote: > Hi Rishab, > > > On 12/29/2015 06:32 PM, Rishab Jaju wrote: > > Hello everybody, > > > > I am a third year student looking to contribute towards GNU Mailman for > the > > upcoming Google Summer of Code program. > > > > I am very proficient in C++, Java, Python and Scheme. I have done some > > projects in machine learning as well as NLP. > > > > What level of knowledge would I need to contribute to the project? What > > sort of project would be appropriate for my skill set? > > There is no specific knowledge level that is required to contribute to > GNU Mailman project except basic Python and common sense. You can get > started by looking at the issues and reading code for the mailman > project that you can find at the project website. If it is not already > clear from the website, I would tell you that the development is focused > around Mailman 3.0 and its sister projects. > > Getting started is same as every year, so you can look at the last > year's GSoC page in the mailman wiki till we create and update the new > page for 2016. > > > > > Thank you, > > Rishab Jaju. > > _______________________________________________ > > Mailman-Developers mailing list > > Mailman-Developers at python.org > > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers > > Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 > > Searchable Archives: > http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-developers%40python.org/ > > Unsubscribe: > https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-developers/raj.abhilash1%40gmail.com > > > > Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 > > > > -- > thanks, > Abhilash Raj > > From stephen at xemacs.org Thu Dec 31 12:39:35 2015 From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull) Date: Fri, 1 Jan 2016 02:39:35 +0900 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Student looking to contribute towards GNU Mailman In-Reply-To: References: <56841146.5070306@gmail.com> Message-ID: <22149.26711.154500.875095@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> Rishab Jaju writes: > Hi Abhilash, > > I am interested in the following project: "Subscriber Profile > Pages". Can I work on this project, or is somebody else working on > it? Even if somebody else is working on it, they may appreciate the help. Even if they are but don't want help, you can try yourself (but of course competing implementations means yours is less likely to actually get integrated). Now that you have posted here, I would recommend getting to work unless you have an alternative project you would prefer to work on. Remember, at this stage you'll spend most of your time learning about Mailman, and your code is likely to get a lot of suggestions for improvement, so you won't be making much in the way of wasted effort even if you end up abandoning this particular project for whatever reason at an early stage. While digging into the code, you may also find a more interesting (to you) project before GSoC opens, or you may find that to do the profile page project you need to add basic facilities, and do that for GSoC. Don't commit yourself to a specific project for GSoC yet. The next thing to do is to check the tracker. I found these: https://gitlab.com/mailman/mailman/issues/62 https://gitlab.com/mailman/postorius/issues/5 Neither seems to suggest that anybody is actually working on this project. Note that the issues are titled "User Profile Pages" rather than "Subscriber Profile Pages" -- searching for appropriate issues is an art. Don't kill yourself trying to do an exhaustive search or coming up with the perfect keywords. If you decide to work on this, come up with a summary of what *you* want to do (it may help to refer to the existing issue descriptions), and post it as an RFE (request for enhancement), most likely on the Postorius tracker. That will allow others interested in the project (both potential users and developers) to find you. Mention that you are working on the project, and link to the existing issues. A bit of advice: I tend to disagree with Our Fearless Leader: I think there's more of a role for "core" in this. Specifically, discoverability of resources. Resources are spread across the three main components, and the list archives at least will have multiple implementations in common use. Steve