From barry at list.org Sat Aug 1 00:35:39 2015 From: barry at list.org (Barry Warsaw) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2015 18:35:39 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Mailman 3 Error & some questions In-Reply-To: <594A67F0BEDB4A49AAF8B765EFB7482F3C770E@MBX-S1.rwth-ad.de> References: <594A67F0BEDB4A49AAF8B765EFB7482F3C770E@MBX-S1.rwth-ad.de> Message-ID: <20150731183539.4a4a7725@limelight.wooz.org> On Jul 30, 2015, at 05:54 AM, Krinetzki, Stephan wrote: >2. In mailman 2, I've created a list and added a new owner. Then the owner >get an email, with his password and a link to the admin page of the list. >How does this work in mailman3? If I create an list in mailman3 and set the >owner, then the email address is the owner, but he isn't noticed. So what >steps are needed to get an password for the new owner and admin of the list? I don't know what you mean by "he isn't noticed". In MM3, there is no such thing as a list admin or moderator password. If you are subscribed to a mailing list with the owner or moderator role, then you should have permission to do things as them for that particular list. So you just log into Postorius and go from there. >3. Is it possible to get Shibboleth ( >https://www.shibboleth.net) working with mailman3? If there is a Django plugin for Shibboleth, it may be easy. The Postorius experts can probably provide more information. >4. The link in the welcome mail to the info page of the list is wrong. It >says >http://lists.example.com/listinfo/list at lists.example.com and if I Yes. Because of the new MM3 architecture, it's not possible in a generic way for the core to send welcome emails with the proper domain urls filled in by default. We know how we are going to do this, but it will have to wait for MM 3.1. Cheers, -Barry -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 819 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From barry at list.org Sat Aug 1 00:38:24 2015 From: barry at list.org (Barry Warsaw) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2015 18:38:24 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Migration from mailman2 to mailman3 In-Reply-To: <55B60567.1060404@one.com> References: <55B60567.1060404@one.com> Message-ID: <20150731183824.6f8e50d7@limelight.wooz.org> On Jul 27, 2015, at 03:48 PM, Shivam Shukla wrote: >Although i read at few places that migration will be supported in >mailman3.1. Can anyone please provide more information if migration will be >supported in mailman3.1 and if it will be then at what time i can expect that >release? We don't have an ETA for 3.1, but yes, migration from 2.1 is The Big Feature we intend to support for that release. Cheers, -Barry From barry at list.org Sat Aug 1 00:52:01 2015 From: barry at list.org (Barry Warsaw) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2015 18:52:01 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] [Mailman-Users] Mailman 3: Deployment without LMTP In-Reply-To: <55B3743D.9000201@hostsharing.net> References: <55B3743D.9000201@hostsharing.net> Message-ID: <20150731185201.3c6af5eb@limelight.wooz.org> [Redirecting to mailman-developers] On Jul 25, 2015, at 01:34 PM, Michael Hierweck wrote: >We are currently running Mailman 2 in an very low-traffic environment >without access to the mail server configuration. We can either use >.forward or aliases to forward mails directly to Mailman via pipe. >Fetching mails from POP3/IMAP mailboxes would be possible, too. > >We would like to upgrade to Mailman 3 now. Thanks for lots of good work >over many years btw. However Mailman 3 only supports feeding mails via >LTMP. Is is possible to build a bridge between .forward/aliases and >Mailmans LMTP interface in a convenient and secure manner? > >An option might be letting fetchmail fetch the mails from a mailbox and >forward them via LTMP. As the mails have already been successfully >delivered to the mailbox before Mailman might reject them I can't image >a chance of handling bounces due to rejects correctly in this setup. > >Therefore I'm thinking of a small Python script that receives mail from >stdin and forwards them via LMTP but I'm unsure whether this would be a >correct way to achieve the goal because there might by problems with >bounces when Mailman rejects those mails. This script oughts to >terminate unsuccessfully when the LTMP delivery fails and should >therefore make Postfix bounce the mail itself. > >Postfix -> .forward -> pipe --(stdin)--> script --(LMTP)--> Mailman 3 > >Any opinions or hints are appreciated. Thanks in advance. It wouldn't be out of the question to do it this way, although you're right that you have to have some special handling for rejections. Technically speaking, Mailman would still support "bounces", which are messages created out of whole-cloth by Mailman sent to the original sender out of band to the LMTP conversation, encapsulating the original message. In fact, your dot-forward-to-LMTP bridge would probably have to capture the LMTP 4xx and 5xx rejection codes and craft a bounce, although it could potentially allow Mailman itself to deliver this. Remember though that the LMTP runner isn't all *that* special, in that upon successful acceptance of the message, it will just drop it in the appropriate queue for further processing. It's certainly conceivable that one could implement a new type of runner that interfaced with dot-forward files in much the same way that MM2 did, but with logic a bit more compatible with MM3's queue structure and database. The trickiest part of all this is handling the security implications of using a dot-forward program. The core only supports LMTP delivery by default in MM3 so we get to ignore all the C wrappers and gid-mismatch fun of MM2. FWIW, this could all be built as a separate plugin for the core. Cheers, -Barry From barry at list.org Sat Aug 1 01:55:07 2015 From: barry at list.org (Barry Warsaw) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2015 19:55:07 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Merging users In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20150731195507.508c346d@limelight.wooz.org> On Jul 21, 2015, at 06:39 PM, Aurelien Bompard wrote: >If I try to associate an existing address to an existing user (without >this address obviously), the Mailman API will reply with a 400 error >"User already exists". Postorius currently does not detect that and >just errors out with a 500 page (but that's not the issue here). > >I think I need to merge the two users, and that's currently not >supported. I believe it would be a useful feature, so I'd like to >discuss it here. IMHO, the only tricky part would be to merge the >preferences associated with each user, but if I know which of my two >users has priority, I can just resolve the conflicts that way. >Am I missing something? Do you agree it would be a useful feature to have? So, Abhilash submitted a merge request to allow for unlinked addresses to be linked to existing users via the REST API. https://gitlab.com/mailman/mailman/merge_requests/30 That's essentially the correct fix for the first order problem (though there's a subtle bug in the mr that I will fix manually). If that answers your question, then great! Actually merging two existing users is indeed a tricky thing because users link to so many other interesting bits and pieces. Two separate users have two separate memberships, linked addresses, preferred addresses, and yes, preferences. There are also the created_on, display_name, and (the mostly unused) password attributes. How deep does merging users go? Cheers, -Barry From raj.abhilash1 at gmail.com Sun Aug 2 00:19:39 2015 From: raj.abhilash1 at gmail.com (Abhilash Raj) Date: Sun, 02 Aug 2015 03:49:39 +0530 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Gsoc Status Update: Dashboard for Admins In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <55BD45FB.2020801@gmail.com> Hey Bhavesh, On 07/25/2015 05:30 PM, Bhavesh Goyal wrote: > Hey ! > > I Just updated my Blog with an update of The Project Progress so far. > Attached to The Blog is also a preview of The Dashboard for those who > have't been able to test it yet on their machine. I had a look at your branch and also tested it out. I was not able to test each and every functionality, but am pretty impressed with your work. I liked that for smaller screens you can hide some widgets and switch between them from the nav bar. - The dropdown on the left-most of Nav Bar, does not look like a dropdown. Maybe add a caret symbol or something like that? - I had a small overview of the tests that you asked me to look at and they are good! Nice Work! -- thanks, Abhilash Raj -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 819 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From Krinetzki at itc.rwth-aachen.de Mon Aug 3 07:56:03 2015 From: Krinetzki at itc.rwth-aachen.de (Krinetzki, Stephan) Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2015 05:56:03 +0000 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Mailman 3 Error & some questions In-Reply-To: <20150731183539.4a4a7725@limelight.wooz.org> References: <594A67F0BEDB4A49AAF8B765EFB7482F3C770E@MBX-S1.rwth-ad.de> <20150731183539.4a4a7725@limelight.wooz.org> Message-ID: <594A67F0BEDB4A49AAF8B765EFB7482F3C93AB@MBX-S1.rwth-ad.de> >On Aug 01, 2015, at 00:36 AM, Berry wrote: >>On Jul 30, 2015, at 05:54 AM, Krinetzki, Stephan wrote: >>2. In mailman 2, I've created a list and added a new owner. Then the >>owner get an email, with his password and a link to the admin page of the list. >>How does this work in mailman3? If I create an list in mailman3 and set >>the owner, then the email address is the owner, but he isn't noticed. >>So what steps are needed to get an password for the new owner and admin of the list? >I don't know what you mean by "he isn't noticed". >In MM3, there is no such thing as a list admin or moderator password. If you are subscribed to a mailing list with the owner or moderator role, then you should have permission to do things as them for that particular list. So you just log into Postorius and go from there. Ah okay. So the user needs an MM3 account to get a password, right? There is no option to create an user, when a new list is created and the user (the mail address) is not known bei MM3? The current workflow on mailman2: Create list, set owner address. Owner gets an email with the information that he has a new list and that he is the owner of that list with a specific password. I'm missing this feature in MM3. A notice: Hey, you have a new list and you are the owner. >>3. Is it possible to get Shibboleth ( >>https://www.shibboleth.net) working with mailman3? >If there is a Django plugin for Shibboleth, it may be easy. The Postorius experts can probably provide more information. Okay. I will have a look (i know a little bit Django) >>4. The link in the welcome mail to the info page of the list is wrong. >>It says >>http://lists.example.com/listinfo/list at lists.example.com and if I >Yes. Because of the new MM3 architecture, it's not possible in a generic way for the core to send welcome emails with the proper domain urls filled in by default. We know how we are going to do this, but it will have to wait for MM 3.1. So the only solution at the moment is to edit/change the default template? >Cheers, >-Barry Thanks so far Stephan -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 5849 bytes Desc: not available URL: From raj.abhilash1 at gmail.com Mon Aug 3 11:10:07 2015 From: raj.abhilash1 at gmail.com (Abhilash Raj) Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2015 14:40:07 +0530 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Mailman 3 Error & some questions In-Reply-To: <594A67F0BEDB4A49AAF8B765EFB7482F3C93AB@MBX-S1.rwth-ad.de> References: <594A67F0BEDB4A49AAF8B765EFB7482F3C770E@MBX-S1.rwth-ad.de> <20150731183539.4a4a7725@limelight.wooz.org> <594A67F0BEDB4A49AAF8B765EFB7482F3C93AB@MBX-S1.rwth-ad.de> Message-ID: <55BF2FEF.5030204@gmail.com> On 08/03/2015 11:26 AM, Krinetzki, Stephan wrote: >> On Aug 01, 2015, at 00:36 AM, Berry wrote: > >>> On Jul 30, 2015, at 05:54 AM, Krinetzki, Stephan wrote: > >>> 2. In mailman 2, I've created a list and added a new owner. Then the >>> owner get an email, with his password and a link to the admin page of the > list. >>> How does this work in mailman3? If I create an list in mailman3 and set >>> the owner, then the email address is the owner, but he isn't noticed. >>> So what steps are needed to get an password for the new owner and admin of > the list? > >> I don't know what you mean by "he isn't noticed". > >> In MM3, there is no such thing as a list admin or moderator password. If > you are subscribed to a mailing list with the owner or moderator role, then > you should have permission to do things as them for that particular list. > So you just log into Postorius and go from there. > > Ah okay. So the user needs an MM3 account to get a password, right? There is > no option to create an user, when a new list is created and the user (the > mail address) is not known bei MM3? The current workflow on mailman2: Create > list, set owner address. Owner gets an email with the information that he > has a new list and that he is the owner of that list with a specific > password. I'm missing this feature in MM3. A notice: Hey, you have a new > list and you are the owner. No, just an address is created and its role is set as 'owner'. If he needs to access his list/list-settings he would have to login into Postorius (the web UI), which he can do via Mozzila Persona(which is currently supported), or infact any social-authentication method for that matters. MM3 is not at feature parity with MM2 and we are working to solve this. We expect 3.1 to have all the features from MM2. >>> 3. Is it possible to get Shibboleth ( >>> https://www.shibboleth.net) working with mailman3? > >> If there is a Django plugin for Shibboleth, it may be easy. The Postorius > experts can probably provide more information. > > Okay. I will have a look (i know a little bit Django) You can use any authentication mechanism for authenticating in Postorius as long as you provide it the email of the person logging in. >>> 4. The link in the welcome mail to the info page of the list is wrong. >>> It says >>> http://lists.example.com/listinfo/list at lists.example.com and if I > >> Yes. Because of the new MM3 architecture, it's not possible in a generic > way for the core to send welcome emails with the proper domain urls filled > in by default. We know how we are going to do this, but it will have to > wait for MM 3.1. > So the only solution at the moment is to edit/change the default template? MM3 won't be able to fill in any variables like ${listinfo} correctly right now. If you urgently want this to work, you can do it this way: http:////lists/${fqdn_listname} Remember that the is different in different django projects that you use, in bundler it is 'mailman3' and in postorius_standalone it is 'postorius'. -- thanks, Abhilash Raj -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 819 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From simon.hanna at serve-me.info Mon Aug 3 14:34:26 2015 From: simon.hanna at serve-me.info (Simon Hanna) Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2015 14:34:26 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Why is postorius using python2? Message-ID: <20150803123425.GA20743@turing> Hi there, I just downloaded the mailman3 code to see if I can contribute anything. I was astonished to find out that postorius still uses python2 although mailman made the switch to python3. Is there any reason behind this? I asked on the irc channel but got no answer so I'm trying here. I used 2to3 on the code and successfully executed the code. I executed the tests, and ran into some errors. If this work is going to be included sometime, I'm willing to investigate and try to fix these errors. Simon -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 473 bytes Desc: not available URL: From raj.abhilash1 at gmail.com Tue Aug 4 01:03:53 2015 From: raj.abhilash1 at gmail.com (Abhilash Raj) Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2015 04:33:53 +0530 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Why is postorius using python2? In-Reply-To: <20150803123425.GA20743@turing> References: <20150803123425.GA20743@turing> Message-ID: <55BFF359.2010907@gmail.com> Hi Simon, On 08/03/2015 06:04 PM, Simon Hanna wrote: > Hi there, > > I just downloaded the mailman3 code to see if I can contribute anything. > I was astonished to find out that postorius still uses python2 > although mailman made the switch to python3. > Is there any reason behind this? Not really, its just that we switched the core before 3.0 release and are going to switch postorius too very soon! I infact have a python2/3 compatible branch which runs in python3 without any errors. The reason I haven't sent a pull request is that it is still in bzr on launchpad. > I asked on the irc channel but got no answer so I'm trying here. I did reply on the list, you probably were gone by then! > I executed the tests, and ran into some errors. > If this work is going to be included sometime, > I'm willing to investigate and try to fix these errors. Thanks for your interest though! -- thanks, Abhilash Raj -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 819 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From terri at toybox.ca Tue Aug 4 01:02:03 2015 From: terri at toybox.ca (Terri Oda) Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2015 16:02:03 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Why is postorius using python2? In-Reply-To: <20150803123425.GA20743@turing> References: <20150803123425.GA20743@turing> Message-ID: <7E5136F9-DD73-4635-8A05-3B4A21B80E93@toybox.ca> I thought we still had one upstream dependency that stops us from entirely switching (Florian was keeping better track than I so hopefully he'll chime in), but we'd love to be completely ready to switch when we can even if there's a blocker still, so please feel free to file bugs and make suggestions to improve things! On August 3, 2015 5:34:26 AM PDT, Simon Hanna wrote: >Hi there, > >I just downloaded the mailman3 code to see if I can contribute >anything. >I was astonished to find out that postorius still uses python2 >although mailman made the switch to python3. >Is there any reason behind this? >I asked on the irc channel but got no answer so I'm trying here. > >I used 2to3 on the code and successfully executed the code. > >I executed the tests, and ran into some errors. >If this work is going to be included sometime, >I'm willing to investigate and try to fix these errors. > >Simon > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >_______________________________________________ >Mailman-Developers mailing list >Mailman-Developers at python.org >https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers >Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 >Searchable Archives: >http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-developers%40python.org/ >Unsubscribe: >https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-developers/terri%40toybox.ca > >Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 From stephen at xemacs.org Tue Aug 4 05:21:56 2015 From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull) Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2015 12:21:56 +0900 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Why is postorius using python2? In-Reply-To: <20150803123425.GA20743@turing> References: <20150803123425.GA20743@turing> Message-ID: <87zj27buwb.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> Simon Hanna writes: > I was astonished to find out that postorius still uses python2 > although mailman made the switch to python3. Why astonished? Lots of applications and libraries are still Python 2-based. > Is there any reason behind this? It's not always trivial to do a port, and the core developers have other things to do (in particular, two of the core are org admins for GSoC which takes up a lot of time). > I used 2to3 on the code and successfully executed the code. > > I executed the tests, and ran into some errors. > If this work is going to be included sometime, > I'm willing to investigate and try to fix these errors. Please do. There's no question that your work will be extremely valuable. Submit patches as you write them on the tracker. Make sure (a) something gets fixed (including new test that you write) and (b) there are no regressions in the test suite before posting a pull request. But if you run into something head-breaking, get in touch with the Postorius developers before spending very much effort on it -- it may be as hard as it looks. :-) (Post here and/or IRC, then try direct email). From aurelien at bompard.org Tue Aug 4 17:52:48 2015 From: aurelien at bompard.org (Aurelien Bompard) Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2015 17:52:48 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Merging users In-Reply-To: <20150731195507.508c346d@limelight.wooz.org> References: <20150731195507.508c346d@limelight.wooz.org> Message-ID: > Actually merging two existing users is indeed a tricky thing because users > link to so many other interesting bits and pieces. Two separate users have > two separate memberships, linked addresses, preferred addresses, and yes, > preferences. There are also the created_on, display_name, and (the mostly > unused) password attributes. > > How deep does merging users go? Abhilash's fix is good but I need to actually merge users, so here's how I would do it. https://gitlab.com/mailman/mailman/merge_requests/32 The change sits on top of Abhilash's, so there's no conflict. I don't think I'm missing anything as far as users are concerned, but please have a look :-) Cheers, Aur?lien From barry at list.org Tue Aug 4 20:55:07 2015 From: barry at list.org (Barry Warsaw) Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2015 14:55:07 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Why is postorius using python2? In-Reply-To: <20150803123425.GA20743@turing> References: <20150803123425.GA20743@turing> Message-ID: <20150804145507.0846af12@limelight.wooz.org> Others have provided good answers, but I'll add one comment about what I consider to be policy regarding Python version support. Feedback welcome of course! On Aug 03, 2015, at 02:34 PM, Simon Hanna wrote: >I was astonished to find out that postorius still uses python2 although >mailman made the switch to python3. The Core can be Python 3-only because the official way to script it is through the REST API, which of course is not only Python-version independent, but actually only depends on you being able to speak HTTP+JSON. Of course mailman.client is the official Python binding to the REST API and that should remain bilingual (Python 2 & 3 compatible) for some time. Note that this did break HyperKitty at the time because it was importing from the 'mailman' package. That's of course since been fixed. I think both HyperKitty and Postorius should officially support Python 3, but remain Python 2 compatible. The reason for this is that they're both Django applications, so if they have to co-habitate with other Python 2-only Django apps, they'll need to also run in Python 2. They should be Python 3 compatible, because, well, Python 3 is much awesomer! Those ports will happen, but I don't know whether they've been milestoned yet. Cheers, -Barry -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 819 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From f at florianfuchs.com Tue Aug 4 23:01:52 2015 From: f at florianfuchs.com (f at florianfuchs.com) Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2015 23:01:52 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] =?utf-8?q?Why_is_postorius_using_python2=3F?= In-Reply-To: <20150804145507.0846af12@limelight.wooz.org> References: <20150803123425.GA20743@turing> <20150804145507.0846af12@limelight.wooz.org> Message-ID: Am 2015-08-04 20:55, schrieb Barry Warsaw: > Others have provided good answers, but I'll add one comment about what > I > consider to be policy regarding Python version support. Feedback > welcome of > course! > > On Aug 03, 2015, at 02:34 PM, Simon Hanna wrote: > >> I was astonished to find out that postorius still uses python2 >> although >> mailman made the switch to python3. > > The Core can be Python 3-only because the official way to script it is > through > the REST API, which of course is not only Python-version independent, > but > actually only depends on you being able to speak HTTP+JSON. Of course > mailman.client is the official Python binding to the REST API and that > should > remain bilingual (Python 2 & 3 compatible) for some time. > > Note that this did break HyperKitty at the time because it was > importing from > the 'mailman' package. That's of course since been fixed. > > I think both HyperKitty and Postorius should officially support Python > 3, but > remain Python 2 compatible. The reason for this is that they're both > Django > applications, so if they have to co-habitate with other Python 2-only > Django > apps, they'll need to also run in Python 2. They should be Python 3 > compatible, because, well, Python 3 is much awesomer! We don't have any direct Python2-only dependencies in Postorius any more since we made the switch from django-social-auth to python-social-auth/django-browserid in April. I'm pretty sure the same is true for HyperKitty (Aur?lien...?). So I guess there's no reason why we shouldn't start supporting Python 3 as well. So the question would be: Go bilingual or py3 only? Bilingual was what we had agreed on before, for the reasons Barry stated above. But mabye this argument becomes less valid as time passes and Python 3 adoption is on the rise. Plus: If someone would want to integrate a py3-only Postorius/HK into an existing site *and* this site is not py3 compatible, it would still be possible to run both on the same server, using another VirtualHost/subdomain or similar. I'm thinking aloud here, not *necessarily* advocating to only support Python 3 soon. But I wonder if there are really that many people who would be negatively affected by it. And, as stated above, for those who are, there's always a way around it. Mabye it's worth giving it another thought. OTOH, supporting both py2+3 is probably not that much more work. But it doesn't make our code much nicer and is not exactly a strong satement in favor of Python 3 adoption. Cheers, Florian From f at florianfuchs.com Tue Aug 4 23:17:19 2015 From: f at florianfuchs.com (f at florianfuchs.com) Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2015 23:17:19 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Mailman 3 Error & some questions In-Reply-To: <594A67F0BEDB4A49AAF8B765EFB7482F3C770E@MBX-S1.rwth-ad.de> References: <594A67F0BEDB4A49AAF8B765EFB7482F3C770E@MBX-S1.rwth-ad.de> Message-ID: <6031afe804667ad5f7294fe3fda8317a@florianfuchs.com> Am 2015-07-30 07:54, schrieb Krinetzki, Stephan: > Hello, > 3. Is it possible to get Shibboleth ( > https://www.shibboleth.net) working > > with mailman3? I don't have any personal experience with shibboleth integration, but there seem to be some solutions out there to use it in combination with Django. There's even a ticket on github regarding adding it to python-social-auth[1] (which we use in mailman-bundler). The important point for us: If someone signs on using shibboleth, are we guaranteed to have access to their email address? Florian [1] https://github.com/omab/python-social-auth/issues/388 From barry at list.org Wed Aug 5 02:20:45 2015 From: barry at list.org (Barry Warsaw) Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2015 20:20:45 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Why is postorius using python2? In-Reply-To: References: <20150803123425.GA20743@turing> <20150804145507.0846af12@limelight.wooz.org> Message-ID: <20150804202045.0c266c18@limelight.wooz.org> On Aug 04, 2015, at 11:01 PM, f at florianfuchs.com wrote: >So the question would be: Go bilingual or py3 only? Bilingual was what we had >agreed on before, for the reasons Barry stated above. But mabye this argument >becomes less valid as time passes and Python 3 adoption is on the rise. Plus: >If someone would want to integrate a py3-only Postorius/HK into an existing >site *and* this site is not py3 compatible, it would still be possible to run >both on the same server, using another VirtualHost/subdomain or similar. > >I'm thinking aloud here, not *necessarily* advocating to only support Python >3 soon. But I wonder if there are really that many people who would be >negatively affected by it. And, as stated above, for those who are, there's >always a way around it. Mabye it's worth giving it another thought. > >OTOH, supporting both py2+3 is probably not that much more work. But it >doesn't make our code much nicer and is not exactly a strong satement in >favor of Python 3 adoption. I can't really weigh in much because I don't know how typical Django users would want to set up their Mailman site. Would they expect to run all their Django apps in a single instance, and thus a single interpreter version? And if so, would they be blocked from installing and running Postorius and HyperKitty if they were Python 3 only? What do other Django apps typically do? I *can* say that you'll almost certainly prefer coding in Python 3! Also, that 3.4 makes a very excellent base version to support. And finally, in general it's not that difficult to support both versions, though I don't know how easy it is to support both versions in a Django app. Official bilingual support would have to at least be tested in both versions. Cheers, -Barry From stephen at xemacs.org Wed Aug 5 03:23:24 2015 From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull) Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2015 10:23:24 +0900 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Why is postorius using python2? In-Reply-To: References: <20150803123425.GA20743@turing> <20150804145507.0846af12@limelight.wooz.org> Message-ID: <87y4hqbkab.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> f at florianfuchs.com writes: > We don't have any direct Python2-only dependencies in Postorius any > more since we made the switch from django-social-auth to > python-social-auth/django-browserid in April. I'm pretty sure the > same is true for HyperKitty (Aur?lien...?). So I guess there's no > reason why we shouldn't start supporting Python 3 as well. That would be very helpful. > So the question would be: Go bilingual or py3 only? Bilingual was > what we had agreed on before, for the reasons Barry stated > above. But mabye this argument becomes less valid as time passes "Less" in terms of numbers. But remember than anybody who really is stuck on Python 2 for some reason is 100% stuck. The argument for bilingual is no less valid than ever for that system. Sure, it's usually possible to run a separate instance, but that would mean that they can't integrate Postorius or HyperKitty with the rest of their site. > OTOH, supporting both py2+3 is probably not that much more work. But it > doesn't make our code much nicer and is not exactly a strong satement in > favor of Python 3 adoption. It seems to me that punishing folks who have a dependency on Python 2 is hardly a strong statement in favor of Python 3, while providing Python 3 support is the strongest statement in favor of Python 3 that a project can make. Since I'm unlikely to do much, if any, of the work, I have no objection to obsoleting Python 2 support if you think it's too much work. But I hope we can bear some ugliness for a while if that's the main objection to bilingual support. Regards, Steve From Krinetzki at itc.rwth-aachen.de Wed Aug 5 10:26:42 2015 From: Krinetzki at itc.rwth-aachen.de (Krinetzki, Stephan) Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2015 08:26:42 +0000 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Mailman 3 Error & some questions In-Reply-To: <6031afe804667ad5f7294fe3fda8317a@florianfuchs.com> References: <594A67F0BEDB4A49AAF8B765EFB7482F3C770E@MBX-S1.rwth-ad.de> <6031afe804667ad5f7294fe3fda8317a@florianfuchs.com> Message-ID: <594A67F0BEDB4A49AAF8B765EFB7482F3D6AA5@MBX-W2.rwth-ad.de> -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: Mailman-Developers [mailto:mailman-developers-bounces+krinetzki=itc.rwth-aachen.de at python.org] Im Auftrag von f at florianfuchs.com Gesendet: Dienstag, 4. August 2015 23:17 An: mailman-developers at python.org Betreff: Re: [Mailman-Developers] Mailman 3 Error & some questions Am 2015-07-30 07:54, schrieb Krinetzki, Stephan: > Hello, > 3. Is it possible to get Shibboleth ( > https://www.shibboleth.net) working > > with mailman3? I don't have any personal experience with shibboleth integration, but there seem to be some solutions out there to use it in combination with Django. There's even a ticket on github regarding adding it to python-social-auth[1] (which we use in mailman-bundler). The important point for us: If someone signs on using shibboleth, are we guaranteed to have access to their email address? Florian [1] https://github.com/omab/python-social-auth/issues/388 _______________________________________________ Mailman-Developers mailing list Mailman-Developers at python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-developers%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-developers/krinetzki%40itc.r wth-aachen.de Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 5849 bytes Desc: not available URL: From Krinetzki at itc.rwth-aachen.de Wed Aug 5 10:26:49 2015 From: Krinetzki at itc.rwth-aachen.de (Krinetzki, Stephan) Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2015 08:26:49 +0000 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Mailman 3 Error & some questions In-Reply-To: <6031afe804667ad5f7294fe3fda8317a@florianfuchs.com> References: <594A67F0BEDB4A49AAF8B765EFB7482F3C770E@MBX-S1.rwth-ad.de> <6031afe804667ad5f7294fe3fda8317a@florianfuchs.com> Message-ID: <594A67F0BEDB4A49AAF8B765EFB7482F3D6AB2@MBX-W2.rwth-ad.de> -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: Mailman-Developers [mailto:mailman-developers-bounces+krinetzki=itc.rwth-aachen.de at python.org] Im Auftrag von f at florianfuchs.com Gesendet: Dienstag, 4. August 2015 23:17 An: mailman-developers at python.org Betreff: Re: [Mailman-Developers] Mailman 3 Error & some questions Am 2015-07-30 07:54, schrieb Krinetzki, Stephan: > Hello, > 3. Is it possible to get Shibboleth ( > https://www.shibboleth.net) working > > with mailman3? I don't have any personal experience with shibboleth integration, but there seem to be some solutions out there to use it in combination with Django. There's even a ticket on github regarding adding it to python-social-auth[1] (which we use in mailman-bundler). The important point for us: If someone signs on using shibboleth, are we guaranteed to have access to their email address? Florian [1] https://github.com/omab/python-social-auth/issues/388 _______________________________________________ Mailman-Developers mailing list Mailman-Developers at python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-developers%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-developers/krinetzki%40itc.r wth-aachen.de Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 5849 bytes Desc: not available URL: From Krinetzki at itc.rwth-aachen.de Wed Aug 5 10:31:01 2015 From: Krinetzki at itc.rwth-aachen.de (Krinetzki, Stephan) Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2015 08:31:01 +0000 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Mailman 3 Error & some questions In-Reply-To: <6031afe804667ad5f7294fe3fda8317a@florianfuchs.com> References: <594A67F0BEDB4A49AAF8B765EFB7482F3C770E@MBX-S1.rwth-ad.de> <6031afe804667ad5f7294fe3fda8317a@florianfuchs.com> Message-ID: <594A67F0BEDB4A49AAF8B765EFB7482F3D6AD3@MBX-W2.rwth-ad.de> On 2015-08-04 11:18 AM Florian wrote >Am 2015-07-30 07:54, schrieb Krinetzki, Stephan: >> Hello, >> 3. Is it possible to get Shibboleth ( >> https://www.shibboleth.net) working >> >> with mailman3? >I don't have any personal experience with shibboleth integration, but there seem to be some solutions out there to use it in combination with Django. There's even a ticket on github regarding adding it to python-social-auth[1] (which we use in mailman-bundler). >The important point for us: If someone signs on using shibboleth, are we guaranteed to have access to their email address? >Florian >[1] https://github.com/omab/python-social-auth/issues/388 Hello Florian, In Shibboleth there is an attribute for the users email: The email attribute. It is set as defined in the eduPerson-Schema [1] And TIL: Empty Mails are not good.....(Sorry for the Spam) Stephan [1] http://www.internet2.edu/media/medialibrary/2013/09/04/internet2-mace-dir-ed uperson-201203.html#mail -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 5849 bytes Desc: not available URL: From yolandeamate at gmail.com Wed Aug 5 04:15:29 2015 From: yolandeamate at gmail.com (Amate Yolande) Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2015 03:15:29 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Interest in contributing to opensource (mailman) Message-ID: Hello My name is Amate Yolande, a second year Computer Science student from the University of Buea Cameroon. I am new to open source and interested in contributing to mailman. I am primarily a Python programmer with basic knowledge of Javascript and Django. I have successfully installed and run mailman3 with Postorius and Hyperkitty locally, but I have no prior experience with mailman so I would like to get directives on some beginners tasks to help me familiarize myself with mailman. Thanks Yolande From ankush.sharma.ece12 at iitbhu.ac.in Tue Aug 11 16:01:28 2015 From: ankush.sharma.ece12 at iitbhu.ac.in (Ankush Sharma) Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2015 19:31:28 +0530 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] GSOC'15 blog report - mailman client in JS Message-ID: Hello everyone, I have put up a blog report . Interested people can have a look and any feedback is always welcomed. Thanks, Ankush Sharma IIT-BHU Varanasi, India - 221005 http://black-perl.me From fromme at tralios.de Tue Aug 11 17:43:09 2015 From: fromme at tralios.de (Simon Fromme) Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2015 17:43:09 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] [Mailman 3] Granting Postorius web access to Mailman users? Message-ID: <55CA180D.4010707@tralios.de> Hello everybody, the company I am working for is currently evaluating whether or not to upgrade to mailman 3.0 from mailman 2.X. So far I am very impressed by the improved functionality and the good looking webinterface(s) and I am thankful for the good work. However, I am having some trouble understanding the procedure of granting users access to the Postorius webinterface. I created a bunch of Mailman users using the REST-interface (apparently inserted in table 'user' in var/data/mailman.db) which however are not automatically given access to the Postorius web interface, apparently only granted to users in the 'auth_user' table in var/mailman-web/mailman-web.sqlite. So my questions are: 1. What is the procedure of granting Postorius web access to Mailman users? 2. Is there a timeframe in which a good Mailman 3 documentation can be expected? I find it quite hard to solve problems myself given the small amount of informationon the web right now. Thanks a lot! Simon Fromme From barry at list.org Tue Aug 11 20:01:08 2015 From: barry at list.org (Barry Warsaw) Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2015 14:01:08 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] [Mailman 3] Granting Postorius web access to Mailman users? In-Reply-To: <55CA180D.4010707@tralios.de> References: <55CA180D.4010707@tralios.de> Message-ID: <20150811140108.6e40d23d@anarchist.wooz.org> On Aug 11, 2015, at 05:43 PM, Simon Fromme wrote: >2. Is there a timeframe in which a good Mailman 3 documentation can be >expected? I find it quite hard to solve problems myself given the small >amount of informationon the web right now. One of the things I think we need is better holistic documentation which describes how to use the integrated system, from a user's and list owners' perspective. I feel like the core is fairly well documented (it could always be better of course), but since most users don't really interact with the system at that level, it's more geared toward developers. We'd certainly welcome contributions here. Cheers, -Barry From stephen at xemacs.org Wed Aug 12 03:28:04 2015 From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2015 10:28:04 +0900 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] [Mailman 3] Granting Postorius web access to Mailman users? In-Reply-To: <20150811140108.6e40d23d@anarchist.wooz.org> References: <55CA180D.4010707@tralios.de> <20150811140108.6e40d23d@anarchist.wooz.org> Message-ID: <8737zpxpln.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> Barry Warsaw writes: > One of the things I think we need is better holistic documentation which > describes how to use the integrated system, The big problem is that as Simon points out we no longer have a truly centralized database. Each component now keeps user information related to itself, but it's not communicated across the components very well. ISTM the core exports pretty good information, but it has no ability to grant privileges in the other components. The other components are in a "pull" relationship with core, so core isn't really able to get information from them. We need to think about providing better communication among the components. I wonder if we might not have been better off using an object-oriented database like MongoDB for the core. That would allow adding components from external sources as the external sources require. From barry at list.org Wed Aug 12 16:23:26 2015 From: barry at list.org (Barry Warsaw) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2015 10:23:26 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] [Mailman 3] Granting Postorius web access to Mailman users? In-Reply-To: <8737zpxpln.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> References: <55CA180D.4010707@tralios.de> <20150811140108.6e40d23d@anarchist.wooz.org> <8737zpxpln.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> Message-ID: <20150812102326.56d55aac@anarchist.wooz.org> On Aug 12, 2015, at 10:28 AM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: >The big problem is that as Simon points out we no longer have a truly >centralized database. Each component now keeps user information >related to itself, but it's not communicated across the components >very well. This is true, and it bites us via the user database. This recently came up in a conversation about the authenticating proxy[1]. There has been discussion about a centralized user database, and I think eventually we'll need something like that, whether it's part of the core or a separate component. >ISTM the core exports pretty good information, but it has no ability to grant >privileges in the other components. The other components are in a "pull" >relationship with core, so core isn't really able to get information from >them. We need to think about providing better communication among the >components. Agreed. Within the core, we have a set of events that get triggered when certain things happen, like a user gets subscribed to a mailing list, etc. What we could do is set up a pubsub that gets notified when these events happen, so Postorius or any other component can be notified when the user database gets updated. >I wonder if we might not have been better off using an object-oriented >database like MongoDB for the core. That would allow adding >components from external sources as the external sources require. Perhaps, but for now that ship has sailed. It's certainly not a good idea for non-core components to be mucking about in the SQL database. Let's think about the APIs we'd need to build to provide better communication between components. Cheers, -Barry [1] https://gitlab.com/astuart/mailmania -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 819 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From fromme at tralios.de Thu Aug 13 11:30:06 2015 From: fromme at tralios.de (Simon Fromme) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2015 11:30:06 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] [Mailman 3] Granting Postorius web access to Mailman users? In-Reply-To: <8737zpxpln.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> References: <55CA180D.4010707@tralios.de> <20150811140108.6e40d23d@anarchist.wooz.org> <8737zpxpln.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> Message-ID: <55CC639E.1090008@tralios.de> I think I would second the idea of having a single component/database that is responsible for the management of user information. Am 12.08.2015 um 16:23 schrieb Barry Warsaw: > The other components are in a "pull"relationship with core, Is this mechanism of pulling user information from the mailman-core into the Postorius database documented somewhere? Is there some (Postorius)-script at the moment, that I could run in order to update its database after having created users for the mailman core? I agree that the core is documented quite well. However, I was having trouble to find information about the Postorius component in particular. All I could find was [1], which only covers installation and development information, though. Best regards, Simon Fromme [1] http://postorius.readthedocs.org/en/latest/index.html From andrew.stuart at supercoders.com.au Thu Aug 13 13:38:36 2015 From: andrew.stuart at supercoders.com.au (Andrew Stuart) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2015 21:38:36 +1000 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] [Mailman 3] Granting Postorius web access to Mailman users? In-Reply-To: <55CC639E.1090008@tralios.de> References: <55CA180D.4010707@tralios.de> <20150811140108.6e40d23d@anarchist.wooz.org> <8737zpxpln.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <55CC639E.1090008@tralios.de> Message-ID: <66E48BFA-DC1A-4DEA-88CC-746AAE404A2B@supercoders.com.au> >>I think I would second the idea of having a single component/database that is responsible for the management of user information. The problem is that the larger Mailman ecosystem is designed to be a loose collection of components so there is no way to define what information each component needs stored at the Mailman Core. It wouldn?t make sense for the data store requirements of Postorius to be baked in to the Mailman Core data structures because Postorius is an optional component of the Mailman suite. In the case of your original question: >>>However, I am having some trouble understanding the procedure of granting users access to the Postorius webinterface. Whether or not a user has access via the web interface is application specific to Postorius so it should be stored in a local datastore managed by Postorius. It?s both a strength and a weakness that Mailman Core is quite rigid about ?taking care only of its own business?. The big benefit of this strategy is that in future it will continue to be practical to upgrade Mailman Core exactly because it has tightly defined data structures and no knowledge of how other applications in the ecosystem behave. Customised data structures in the Mailman Core would lead to major issues in forward compatibility - imagine the nightmare of trying to upgrade Mailman Core if it included application-specific customisations that had been wound in over time - it would be like chewing gum in your hair - you?d never get it out. The important thing is that Mailman Core provides a resource permissions model that can be leveraged by other servers such as Postorius so that the central store of Mailman user authorisation information can be applied to application specific data stores. Which is to say, Postorius (or any other application) can store data using the Mailman userid, and can check with the Mailman Core to see if it is a valid user. Mailman Core?s commitment to minding its own business is a good compromise - its not ideal but it?s not that bad either - the key thing for third party application developers to understand is that Mailman provides a unique ID for every resource (users, domains, lists etc), and provides a permissions model that defines which of these resources users have access to. Third party applications can connect logically to this conceptual framework in a fairly loosely coupled manner. as From andrew.stuart at supercoders.com.au Thu Aug 13 13:51:10 2015 From: andrew.stuart at supercoders.com.au (Andrew Stuart) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2015 21:51:10 +1000 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] [Mailman 3] Granting Postorius web access to Mailman users? In-Reply-To: <66E48BFA-DC1A-4DEA-88CC-746AAE404A2B@supercoders.com.au> References: <55CA180D.4010707@tralios.de> <20150811140108.6e40d23d@anarchist.wooz.org> <8737zpxpln.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <55CC639E.1090008@tralios.de> <66E48BFA-DC1A-4DEA-88CC-746AAE404A2B@supercoders.com.au> Message-ID: Having said all that, one thing that might work is for the Mailman Core to provide the ability to retrieve key/value pairs that can be attached to any given resource. This is sufficiently simple to mean it would present no problems for forward compatibility. key/value pairs would suffice for some applications but as soon as you tried to build any serious third party Mailman application you?d fairly rapidly move beyond the capabilities of a key/value store. So there is something to be said for a very simple Mailman Core key/value store mechanism that would meet some simple needs. The argument against this is ?well you?re going to outgrow it pretty quick anyway so why not immediately start with a more full featured data store?. as From stephen at xemacs.org Fri Aug 14 02:49:15 2015 From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2015 09:49:15 +0900 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] [Mailman 3] Granting Postorius web access to Mailman users? In-Reply-To: References: <55CA180D.4010707@tralios.de> <20150811140108.6e40d23d@anarchist.wooz.org> <8737zpxpln.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <55CC639E.1090008@tralios.de> <66E48BFA-DC1A-4DEA-88CC-746AAE404A2B@supercoders.com.au> Message-ID: <87vbciwv78.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> Andrew Stuart writes: > So there is something to be said for a very simple Mailman Core > key/value store mechanism that would meet some simple needs. The > argument against this is ?well you?re going to outgrow it pretty > quick anyway so why not immediately start with a more full featured > data store?. I don't think you're going to outgrow it. We have a sufficiently flexible way to name resources (URI is a proof of concept) and accesses, so a permission is just a triple (add a user). One problem we face is secure communication between components for identification and authentication purposes, which currently isn't present in Mailman at all. *That* could be a real problem, as there may be embedded design decisions that induce a conflict between efficiency and security (I don't think so, but that's the kind of problem one typically runs into). We also need an authorization scheme which doesn't propagate excessive privilege across components, but that can be done in principle by making permissions into quadruples (add the component to distinguish privileges in one component from privileges in another). This kind of thing has been done for a long time (Kerberos), so I guess the question is do we really need Kerberos, or can we get away with something a lot less complex? Finally we need the discipline to design and consistently implement a system-wide authorization system. That's undoubtedly the hardest part. Steve From terri at toybox.ca Thu Aug 20 09:32:03 2015 From: terri at toybox.ca (Terri Oda) Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2015 00:32:03 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Improving the mailman-bundler flow for production environments Message-ID: <55D58273.4080200@toybox.ca> Hi all, I've been made aware several times that the mailman-bundler docs don't work super well for folk who are focused on getting a production rather than a development server up and running. Now, I know we're hoping that there will be distro packages and an easier path for this eventually (please, if you're interested in doing some distro packaging, we need help!) but I thought I'd take a stab at making it better even for people going from source. I've started a fork with my first thoughts here: https://gitlab.com/terriko/mailman-bundler/blob/production-doc/README.rst It includes: - a new section "Development vs Production" with a note about the expected workflow (development->test->production) and a pointer to the production documentation (although I think my link is broken right now. My restructuredtext-fu is weak tonight and google didn't help.) - Something more explicit in "Run the services" about how to run django on something other than localhost. Those were the two things that really stood out for me when I was setting up a server this week, but I am certain they're not the only places where we could be more clear. So... I'd like some feedback! What seems confusing about the doc? What concerns are there for production servers that we aren't addressing? Terri PS - Don't worry, I will make a merge request when I fix the formatting errors, but it's late and I wanted to get an email out before I go to bed From terri at toybox.ca Sat Aug 22 08:01:57 2015 From: terri at toybox.ca (Terri Oda) Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2015 23:01:57 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Interest in contributing to opensource (mailman) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <55D81055.4060906@toybox.ca> On 2015-08-04 7:15 PM, Amate Yolande wrote: > Hello > > My name is Amate Yolande, a second year Computer Science student from > the University of Buea Cameroon. I am new to open source and interested in > contributing to mailman. I am primarily a Python programmer with basic > knowledge of Javascript and Django. I have successfully installed and run > mailman3 with Postorius and Hyperkitty locally, but I have no prior > experience with mailman so I would like to get directives on some > beginners tasks to help me familiarize myself with mailman. Hi Yolande! We try to tag our bugs as "beginner-friendly" or "easy" when we think they might be suitable for new contributors: https://gitlab.com/mailman/postorius/issues?label_name=beginner-friendly https://gitlab.com/mailman/postorius/issues?label_name=easy https://gitlab.com/mailman/hyperkitty/issues?label_name=easy https://gitlab.com/mailman/mailman/issues?label_name=easy There aren't a huge number of bugs in that category right now because we cleaned up a lot of the easier bugs before the release earlier this year, but one thing that is *always* helpful and reasonably beginner friendly is adding more test cases. There's a bug in postorius with a few hints as to how to get started: https://gitlab.com/mailman/postorius/issues/2 The other great thing to do as a beginner is to report bugs. And that's not just bugs in the software, but also bugs in the documentation: did you find anything stupidly confusing when you set up your instance? Is there anything you found hard to find on the website? Ask about it here, and maybe file a bug or two so we don't forget to fix things! It really helps us to have people coming in and seeing all that stuff with fresh eyes, so those are awesome things to do now before you get super familiar with the process! For example, having just answered this question, I can see that it would be super awesome if we had a page on the website telling new users where to find the easy bugs. Would you like to file that bug to get you started? You can do it from here: https://gitlab.com/mailman/mailman-website/issues