From terri at toybox.ca Sun Mar 2 07:05:28 2014 From: terri at toybox.ca (Terri Oda) Date: Sat, 01 Mar 2014 22:05:28 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] GNU Mailman sprinting at Pycon 2014 In-Reply-To: <20140224175923.3c31e32d@limelight.wooz.org> References: <20140224175923.3c31e32d@limelight.wooz.org> Message-ID: <5312CA28.8060307@toybox.ca> On 2014-02-24, 2:59 PM, Barry Warsaw wrote: > Once again, the GNU Mailman project will be sprinting at Pycon, this time the > 2014 conference in Montreal. I've created a placeholder page for adding ideas > about what you would like to work on, as well as our priorities. We'll be > filling out details over the next few weeks, but feel free to start discussing > ideas here. > > http://wiki.list.org/display/DEV/PyCon+2014+Sprint Hurray! I'm still not 100% sure I'll be going, but I'll probably have to make a commitment on plane tickets this week (I have hotel and conference ticket, but I was holding off on flights because there may be a work conflict for me.) The #1 thing I want is an installer for Mailman Suite. We might want this before the sprints, though, if only to get people set up to sprint faster. :) Terri From terri at toybox.ca Sun Mar 2 07:18:14 2014 From: terri at toybox.ca (Terri Oda) Date: Sat, 01 Mar 2014 22:18:14 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] [GSoC 2014] Cordova/Android App for GNU Mailman Admin Interface In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5312CD26.7060204@toybox.ca> On 2014-02-28, 7:36 AM, Bhargav Golla wrote: > I have a few questions regarding this idea. > 1. I intend to develop it on Cordova since it will help in porting the app > easily to multiple platforms. Were there any ideas in this directions > regarding going native or hybrid? Personally, I'd prefer if we went hybrid and had an html5 webapp that could be used straight over the web for mobile users who don't want to install an app, with Cordova used to build the individual platform apps. I may not be the mentor on this one, though, so I'm happy to defer to whoever the final mentor is on this front. Incidentally, I've been using Intel's XDK for building Cordova apps lately and highly recommend it for quick testing on various platforms and screen sizes. I've found it a very useful tool, and not just because I work for Intel now! > 2. Can I assume that all mailing lists built by Mailman support the REST > interface? Also, I have tried to see if I can get JSON responses and I am > unable to by adding a HTTP Accept Header to take "application/json". Am I > doing anything wrong or is JSON not implemented? I don't know the answer to this off the top of my head: Barry? > 3. As a starter, could I ignore internationalization for GSoC, but > implement interface in such a way as to be able to internationalize it > easily? We don't expect you to actually translate anything, don't worry. :) But you should definitely build as much as possible so that internationalization will be easy: make sure there's a quick way to get a list of strings that need translation, at least. Some of the strings may be already translated in other components of Mailman, so you may be able to get some translations to use to test if you have time at the end of the summer for internationalization. Terri From barry at python.org Sun Mar 2 20:46:16 2014 From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw) Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2014 14:46:16 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] MM3 Test "" Hangs References: <20140226095023.17d985b4@limelight.wooz.org> <530E6D04.2010805@msapiro.net> Message-ID: <20140302144616.610f506d@anarchist.wooz.org> On Feb 26, 2014, at 02:39 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote: >I moved zope.interface-4.0.5 aside and reran setup and it was happy this >time. Looks like upstream released zope.interface 4.1.0, but this hasn't been pulled into Debian or Ubuntu yet. This breaks other dependencies referenced by --system-site-packages. I'll work on getting a newer zope.interface into the distros, but in the meantime, when the `python setup.py develop` command stops with this error, just `pip install -U zope.interface` and then run the develop command again. -Barry -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 819 bytes Desc: not available URL: From barry at python.org Sun Mar 2 20:58:05 2014 From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw) Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2014 14:58:05 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] [GSoC 2014] Cordova/Android App for GNU Mailman Admin Interface References: Message-ID: <20140302145805.223e2de0@anarchist.wooz.org> On Feb 28, 2014, at 10:36 AM, Bhargav Golla wrote: >2. Can I assume that all mailing lists built by Mailman support the REST >interface? Also, I have tried to see if I can get JSON responses and I am >unable to by adding a HTTP Accept Header to take "application/json". Am I >doing anything wrong or is JSON not implemented? I'm not sure this question makes sense. ;) Mailman 3 does expose a REST API, but in the core, it's a protected (e.g. localhost only by default) admin interface. It's not per-mailing list, although there are mailing list specific resources. JSON is the only response format currently supported. See http://tinyurl.com/kzmcwf5 for details. Cheers, -Barry -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 819 bytes Desc: not available URL: From barry at list.org Sun Mar 2 20:59:21 2014 From: barry at list.org (Barry Warsaw) Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2014 14:59:21 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] GNU Mailman sprinting at Pycon 2014 In-Reply-To: <5312CA28.8060307@toybox.ca> References: <20140224175923.3c31e32d@limelight.wooz.org> <5312CA28.8060307@toybox.ca> Message-ID: <20140302145921.37e62b62@anarchist.wooz.org> On Mar 01, 2014, at 10:05 PM, Terri Oda wrote: >I'm still not 100% sure I'll be going, but I'll probably have to make a >commitment on plane tickets this week (I have hotel and conference ticket, >but I was holding off on flights because there may be a work conflict for >me.) I hope it works out! We'd really miss you if you weren't there. :) >The #1 thing I want is an installer for Mailman Suite. We might want this >before the sprints, though, if only to get people set up to sprint faster. :) Yes, yes, yes. -Barry From barry at list.org Sun Mar 2 21:02:04 2014 From: barry at list.org (Barry Warsaw) Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2014 15:02:04 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Installation of mailman on local machine In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20140302150204.524f0224@anarchist.wooz.org> On Feb 28, 2014, at 02:38 AM, Tejas Shah wrote: >However, starting the mailman server using "mailman start", when i try to >test using "nose2 -v" , it gives me o/p: As Mark says, you should not start the mailman server before running the tests. 'mailman start' is there to start the server for production. Any processes the test suite needs it will automatically start and stop itself. -Barry From flo.fuchs at gmail.com Mon Mar 3 10:31:02 2014 From: flo.fuchs at gmail.com (Florian Fuchs) Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2014 10:31:02 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Gsoc idea discussions : Continuous integration tool In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <53144BD6.5010807@gmail.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 02/22/2014 07:54 AM, Varun Sharma wrote: > Hi all, I am interested in continuous integration tool as my gsoc > project and would like to discuss further it's possible > implementations. I think one possible implementation for gatekeeper > is : > > Making another django project mm_gatekeeper which every developer > must run in order to commit to trunk. We can host its repo of on > launchpad. It will act as a proxy to bzr and will perform bzr > commit only after all the unit and doc tests succeeds. > > > bzr pull can be implemented as > > $ mm_gatekeeper PROJECT_NAME pull > > or to pull all projects > > $ mm_gatekeeper pull > > > Instead of using bzr commit in postorius we can use > > $ mm_gatekeepar PROJECT_NAME COMMAND > > $ mm_gatekeeper postorius commit -m"commit message" > I like the idea of having a command line tool to run integration tests! It could be used both by the devs working on the different packages as well as on a central ci server that runs those tests regularly. But I'm not sure it should be tied that closely into the commit/merge process: When a developer works on a new feature in a branch separate from the main line, it's probably very common to commit small changes that would break the whole system, but are commit-worthy anyway because they sum up a small series of changes in a chain of more commits that eventually lead to a mergeable state. So when I (as a developer) *think* my stuff is ready to be merged into trunk, *that's* when I would like to check if everything's fine and run the integration testing tool. Another thought: What versions of the various Mailman packages should the ci tool test against? Should that be configurable for different test scenarios? Like: - - Use the branch I'm currently working on, but get all other packages from their respective main lines (the perspective of a developer working on a new feature before merging). - - Use the current main line of one package, but everything else from pypi (the perspective of a developer when preparing the release of one package) - - ...? Why would you use Django to build the tool as opposed to "just" a python package? Cheers, Florian -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.12 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJTFEvWAAoJEEceGbPdavl7UPMH/A5cd7PWdw+qMaOFRfxfTVuV lvwdwTOb/Z7oeeE5bol/czvuG7ejaBi5fVxerSb2Ffo4N8aESP1gmxt4U+Qp1SFr 0oIORix0L35Kz19MurbODaZzphjZB5Hf/F/Fu0OgbS4KmDf1nnMvVvXusB6vOxM4 lvg/AOb1GyGuYd78Cj4GA2CY6oCfh2pAjmzUKI4ULvzHjGFHYtjanmYgaB+cjdwB mNaZbJtQKcjBTvl6iXAON0MU2SzmMG9psA/LcR2hRQMZncBxe0Lbh3fEAA7IHuKe rzqT2lyX3cBZtvsH06TlLwYmxyJp8Z3HTv6Txj7y+YvvrL4Sj5c6fYTts7OtE1M= =fci5 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From nitinagarwal3006 at gmail.com Mon Mar 3 10:35:12 2014 From: nitinagarwal3006 at gmail.com (Nitin Agarwal) Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2014 14:35:12 +0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Gsoc 2014 : Mailman SNMP support Message-ID: Hi, Here its Nitin Agarwal, an open source Software developer and enthusiast. I am looking forward to contribute to Mailman in the upcoming Google Summer of Code 2014 through the Mailman SNMP Support Project idea. I have an experience with the open source software development and tools used. I have an indepth knowledge of SNMP protocol and an understanding of the concepts specified in the SNMP RFC 1157. I would like to discuss the project idea with the concerned mentor for this Project idea. I would like to start off working and contributing to Mailman through this project idea. Could the mentors Please help me in the starting off with the initial steps and key ideas involved in this project. Thanks *Nitin Agarwal* [1] Github : https://github.com/NitinAgarwal [2] IRC : nitinagarwal3006 From flo.fuchs at gmail.com Mon Mar 3 12:05:27 2014 From: flo.fuchs at gmail.com (Florian Fuchs) Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2014 12:05:27 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] [GSoC 2014] Command line Client In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <531461F7.6070404@gmail.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 02/25/2014 03:17 AM, Rajeev S wrote: > Hi, > > I am Rajeev S , A CSE Undergrad from India. I would like to work > with the Command Line client project listed in the GSoC ideas > page. > > I have been working on the Postorious package lately and have > managed to make some tweaks in it, like the add users by file > upload and an improved email validator. > > As a part of the project, I would like to build,at the minimum, > the functionalities listed at the > mailmain.client/src/mailmanclient/docs/using.txt > > Can the mentor of this project elaborate upon the requirements of > the project? I think the functionalities listed in the mailman.client docs are a good orientation point, because those represent almost everything the core REST API currently exposes. It also makes sense to use mailman.client instead of writing new code that handles the HTTP stuff and object binding. I guess the most difficult part of this project is coming up with a great "layout", possibly borrowing stuff from other well-known command line clients (mutt, mysql/sqlite3, the ipython shell, lynx etc.). Of course there are bonus points for all kinds of stuff, like exporting data to files/stdout, making the tool extensible etc. But I really think designing the right interface and implementing most or all of what mailman.client can do will take a good amount time. > Also I have thought of an approach for the full anonymization > project.Is it possible that I can work on both of these as a single > project?(I have a feeling that the CLI is a small project, am I > right?) You should definitely pick one project and come up with good ideas for that. Cheers Florian -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.12 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJTFGH3AAoJEEceGbPdavl7ZYIH+gJVB27H6G5LXd+0+vytx1gC sZiQCy/vYEr8jtCbe8BdoLvk+jyBNRaUzaxDuL/9Pb3g8HCwuJQ+HzEQm25ewZ0X vlvWZ7dW07sEYr5q7cRatkqO/GQc2n6B6IgGd3oTkihQUO4iZQTu/ddytMghvCP0 MYtuQyuecjZm8JBlCn6AU0KQWxNx/Kt7CsuPfk6FcCOmA15ZEnZ4kxZFY0khVY5a NLetoDDY7fQAf5fFlea8SfIN8PFB1i4qv5DdjDaX17Yg/S+X5S0nZx18uvqX7Up8 RlGLTCSA8s3qsYItaI9NWpXRdo/Z1p8MN/hQOOot85e3SVernKn9oq1TSI/7lww= =pozr -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From rajeevs1992 at gmail.com Mon Mar 3 15:11:10 2014 From: rajeevs1992 at gmail.com (Rajeev S) Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2014 19:41:10 +0530 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] [GSoC 2014] Command line Client In-Reply-To: <531461F7.6070404@gmail.com> References: <531461F7.6070404@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi Florian, I had discussed about the full anonymization project with Stephen and I had found that I had quite misunderstood the use case of that project. So I have decided to go forward with applying for the mailman command line client project. The deliverables of the project would be, at the least, - Command line tools to perform tasks in the mailman client docs - Any Extra useful functionalities that can be identified, such as export, backup - Other Useful tools like backup and restore. - Man Page entries for the new commands Also, I did not quite get the "*coming up with a **great layout *" part. Do you mean to build a custom shell for mailman? If yes, what extra functionality should it provide than the standard command line tools? *Regards,Rajeev S* *Government Engineering College,Thrissur* *http://rajeevs.tk * On Mon, Mar 3, 2014 at 4:35 PM, Florian Fuchs wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > > > On 02/25/2014 03:17 AM, Rajeev S wrote: > > Hi, > > > > I am Rajeev S , A CSE Undergrad from India. I would like to work > > with the Command Line client project listed in the GSoC ideas > > page. > > > > I have been working on the Postorious package lately and have > > managed to make some tweaks in it, like the add users by file > > upload and an improved email validator. > > > > As a part of the project, I would like to build,at the minimum, > > the functionalities listed at the > > mailmain.client/src/mailmanclient/docs/using.txt > > > > Can the mentor of this project elaborate upon the requirements of > > the project? > > I think the functionalities listed in the mailman.client docs are a > good orientation point, because those represent almost everything the > core REST API currently exposes. It also makes sense to use > mailman.client instead of writing new code that handles the HTTP stuff > and object binding. > > I guess the most difficult part of this project is coming up with a > great "layout", possibly borrowing stuff from other well-known command > line clients (mutt, mysql/sqlite3, the ipython shell, lynx etc.). > > Of course there are bonus points for all kinds of stuff, like > exporting data to files/stdout, making the tool extensible etc. But I > really think designing the right interface and implementing most or > all of what mailman.client can do will take a good amount time. > > > Also I have thought of an approach for the full anonymization > > project.Is it possible that I can work on both of these as a single > > project?(I have a feeling that the CLI is a small project, am I > > right?) > > You should definitely pick one project and come up with good ideas for > that. > > > Cheers > Florian > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.12 (GNU/Linux) > Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ > > iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJTFGH3AAoJEEceGbPdavl7ZYIH+gJVB27H6G5LXd+0+vytx1gC > sZiQCy/vYEr8jtCbe8BdoLvk+jyBNRaUzaxDuL/9Pb3g8HCwuJQ+HzEQm25ewZ0X > vlvWZ7dW07sEYr5q7cRatkqO/GQc2n6B6IgGd3oTkihQUO4iZQTu/ddytMghvCP0 > MYtuQyuecjZm8JBlCn6AU0KQWxNx/Kt7CsuPfk6FcCOmA15ZEnZ4kxZFY0khVY5a > NLetoDDY7fQAf5fFlea8SfIN8PFB1i4qv5DdjDaX17Yg/S+X5S0nZx18uvqX7Up8 > RlGLTCSA8s3qsYItaI9NWpXRdo/Z1p8MN/hQOOot85e3SVernKn9oq1TSI/7lww= > =pozr > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > _______________________________________________ > Mailman-Developers mailing list > Mailman-Developers at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers > Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 > Searchable Archives: > http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-developers%40python.org/ > Unsubscribe: > https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-developers/rajeevs1992%40gmail.com > > Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 > From bgolla at g.clemson.edu Mon Mar 3 18:07:01 2014 From: bgolla at g.clemson.edu (Bhargav Golla) Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2014 12:07:01 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] [GSoC 2014] Cordova/Android App for GNU Mailman Admin Interface In-Reply-To: <5312CD26.7060204@toybox.ca> References: <5312CD26.7060204@toybox.ca> Message-ID: Thanks Barry and Terri for your feedback. I was trying to install Postorius locally and analyze what all would be required in a mobile app for Admin. Doing the same, I have hit a roadblock. I am using the wiki provided here[1]. I tried to install mailman using "set up sources" part of the wiki. Though python setup.py install executes without any errors, I am unable to see the folder bin/ in the same directory. So, even though I proceed with further setup, I am getting a "Mailman REST API not available. Please start mailman core" on my localhost:8000 webpage. Could anyone help me here? [1] http://wiki.list.org/display/DEV/A+5+minute+guide+to+get+the+Mailman+web+UI+running Thanks On Sun, Mar 2, 2014 at 1:18 AM, Terri Oda wrote: > > On 2014-02-28, 7:36 AM, Bhargav Golla wrote: > >> I have a few questions regarding this idea. >> 1. I intend to develop it on Cordova since it will help in porting the app >> easily to multiple platforms. Were there any ideas in this directions >> regarding going native or hybrid? >> > > Personally, I'd prefer if we went hybrid and had an html5 webapp that > could be used straight over the web for mobile users who don't want to > install an app, with Cordova used to build the individual platform apps. I > may not be the mentor on this one, though, so I'm happy to defer to whoever > the final mentor is on this front. > > Incidentally, I've been using Intel's XDK for building Cordova apps lately > and highly recommend it for quick testing on various platforms and screen > sizes. I've found it a very useful tool, and not just because I work for > Intel now! > > 2. Can I assume that all mailing lists built by Mailman support the REST >> interface? Also, I have tried to see if I can get JSON responses and I am >> unable to by adding a HTTP Accept Header to take "application/json". Am I >> doing anything wrong or is JSON not implemented? >> > > I don't know the answer to this off the top of my head: Barry? > > > 3. As a starter, could I ignore internationalization for GSoC, but >> implement interface in such a way as to be able to internationalize it >> easily? >> > > We don't expect you to actually translate anything, don't worry. :) But > you should definitely build as much as possible so that > internationalization will be easy: make sure there's a quick way to get a > list of strings that need translation, at least. Some of the strings may > be already translated in other components of Mailman, so you may be able to > get some translations to use to test if you have time at the end of the > summer for internationalization. > > Terri > > -- Bhargav Golla M.S Computer Science Github | LinkedIN | Website From varunsharmalive at gmail.com Mon Mar 3 18:22:13 2014 From: varunsharmalive at gmail.com (varun sharma) Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2014 22:52:13 +0530 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Gsoc idea discussions : Continuous integration tool In-Reply-To: <53144BD6.5010807@gmail.com> References: <53144BD6.5010807@gmail.com> Message-ID: Thanks Florian for these suggestions, i have added some more details that i think need to be discussed. On Mon, Mar 3, 2014 at 3:01 PM, Florian Fuchs wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > > > On 02/22/2014 07:54 AM, Varun Sharma wrote: > > Hi all, I am interested in continuous integration tool as my gsoc > > project and would like to discuss further it's possible > > implementations. I think one possible implementation for gatekeeper > > is : > > > > Making another django project mm_gatekeeper which every developer > > must run in order to commit to trunk. We can host its repo of on > > launchpad. It will act as a proxy to bzr and will perform bzr > > commit only after all the unit and doc tests succeeds. > > > > > > bzr pull can be implemented as > > > > $ mm_gatekeeper PROJECT_NAME pull > > > > or to pull all projects > > > > $ mm_gatekeeper pull > > > > > > Instead of using bzr commit in postorius we can use > > > > $ mm_gatekeepar PROJECT_NAME COMMAND > > > > $ mm_gatekeeper postorius commit -m"commit message" > > > > I like the idea of having a command line tool to run integration tests! > It could be used both by the devs working on the different packages as > well as on a central ci server that runs those tests regularly. But > I'm not sure it should be tied that closely into the commit/merge > process: > > When a developer works on a new feature in a branch separate from the > main line, it's probably very common to commit small changes that > would break the whole system, but are commit-worthy anyway because > they sum up a small series of changes in a chain of more commits that > eventually lead to a mergeable state. > > So when I (as a developer) *think* my stuff is ready to be merged into > trunk, *that's* when I would like to check if everything's fine and > run the integration testing tool. > > Another thought: What versions of the various Mailman packages should > the ci tool test against? Should that be configurable for different > test scenarios? Like: > > - - Use the branch I'm currently working on, but get all other packages > from their respective main lines (the perspective of a developer > working on a new feature before merging). > > - - Use the current main line of one package, but everything else from > pypi (the perspective of a developer when preparing the release of one > package) > > - - ...? > I think we can include a list of branches/versions to be fetched for testing of integration in settings for every project . I also wanted to discuss, whether it's a good idea to test the code on the developers machine before committing or we should just go by the buildbot implementation(running builds on different servers after getting a commit on repository). If we run tests on developer's machine: Pros: 1. The possible integration error can be detected early, and can prevent committing the erroneous code. Cons: 1. All the developers of different projects will be required to pull the code of all the projects involved in the suite. 2. Running unit tests may take more time on developers machine than on slave server. If we run tests after getting commit on trunk: Pros: 1. We can set different slave servers with different operating systems just like buildbot and the tests will be more reliable. 2. Time of developer in running the tests for all the projects can be saved. Cons: 1. The erroneous code in the trunk may get exposed to the end users before getting fixed by the developer. So I think we should have a mix of these two :) > Why would you use Django to build the tool as opposed to "just" a > python package? > I was thinking of expanding it like buildbot to include django based GUI and detailed reports. So i thought we can use django, but if we just want a command line tool, then python module will be fine. > > > Cheers, > Florian > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.12 (GNU/Linux) > Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ > > iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJTFEvWAAoJEEceGbPdavl7UPMH/A5cd7PWdw+qMaOFRfxfTVuV > lvwdwTOb/Z7oeeE5bol/czvuG7ejaBi5fVxerSb2Ffo4N8aESP1gmxt4U+Qp1SFr > 0oIORix0L35Kz19MurbODaZzphjZB5Hf/F/Fu0OgbS4KmDf1nnMvVvXusB6vOxM4 > lvg/AOb1GyGuYd78Cj4GA2CY6oCfh2pAjmzUKI4ULvzHjGFHYtjanmYgaB+cjdwB > mNaZbJtQKcjBTvl6iXAON0MU2SzmMG9psA/LcR2hRQMZncBxe0Lbh3fEAA7IHuKe > rzqT2lyX3cBZtvsH06TlLwYmxyJp8Z3HTv6Txj7y+YvvrL4Sj5c6fYTts7OtE1M= > =fci5 > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > _______________________________________________ > Mailman-Developers mailing list > Mailman-Developers at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers > Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 > Searchable Archives: > http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-developers%40python.org/ > Unsubscribe: > https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-developers/varunsharmalive%40gmail.com > > Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 > Thanks Varun From rajeevs1992 at gmail.com Mon Mar 3 19:38:39 2014 From: rajeevs1992 at gmail.com (Rajeev S) Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2014 00:08:39 +0530 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] [GSoC 2014] Cordova/Android App for GNU Mailman Admin Interface In-Reply-To: References: <5312CD26.7060204@toybox.ca> Message-ID: Hi Bhargav, Just do *mailman start*, without the bin. I have edited the wiki. *Regards,Rajeev S* *Government Engineering College,Thrissur* *http://rajeevs.tk * On Mon, Mar 3, 2014 at 10:37 PM, Bhargav Golla wrote: > Thanks Barry and Terri for your feedback. > I was trying to install Postorius locally and analyze what all would be > required in a mobile app for Admin. Doing the same, I have hit a roadblock. > I am using the wiki provided here[1]. I tried to install mailman using "set > up sources" part of the wiki. Though python setup.py install executes > without any errors, I am unable to see the folder bin/ in the same > directory. So, even though I proceed with further setup, I am getting a > "Mailman REST API not available. Please start mailman core" on my > localhost:8000 webpage. Could anyone help me here? > > [1] > > http://wiki.list.org/display/DEV/A+5+minute+guide+to+get+the+Mailman+web+UI+running > > Thanks > > > On Sun, Mar 2, 2014 at 1:18 AM, Terri Oda wrote: > > > > > On 2014-02-28, 7:36 AM, Bhargav Golla wrote: > > > >> I have a few questions regarding this idea. > >> 1. I intend to develop it on Cordova since it will help in porting the > app > >> easily to multiple platforms. Were there any ideas in this directions > >> regarding going native or hybrid? > >> > > > > Personally, I'd prefer if we went hybrid and had an html5 webapp that > > could be used straight over the web for mobile users who don't want to > > install an app, with Cordova used to build the individual platform apps. > I > > may not be the mentor on this one, though, so I'm happy to defer to > whoever > > the final mentor is on this front. > > > > Incidentally, I've been using Intel's XDK for building Cordova apps > lately > > and highly recommend it for quick testing on various platforms and screen > > sizes. I've found it a very useful tool, and not just because I work for > > Intel now! > > > > 2. Can I assume that all mailing lists built by Mailman support the REST > >> interface? Also, I have tried to see if I can get JSON responses and I > am > >> unable to by adding a HTTP Accept Header to take "application/json". Am > I > >> doing anything wrong or is JSON not implemented? > >> > > > > I don't know the answer to this off the top of my head: Barry? > > > > > > 3. As a starter, could I ignore internationalization for GSoC, but > >> implement interface in such a way as to be able to internationalize it > >> easily? > >> > > > > We don't expect you to actually translate anything, don't worry. :) But > > you should definitely build as much as possible so that > > internationalization will be easy: make sure there's a quick way to get a > > list of strings that need translation, at least. Some of the strings may > > be already translated in other components of Mailman, so you may be able > to > > get some translations to use to test if you have time at the end of the > > summer for internationalization. > > > > Terri > > > > > > > -- > Bhargav Golla > M.S Computer Science > Github | > LinkedIN > | Website > _______________________________________________ > Mailman-Developers mailing list > Mailman-Developers at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers > Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 > Searchable Archives: > http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-developers%40python.org/ > Unsubscribe: > https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-developers/rajeevs1992%40gmail.com > > Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 > From mark at msapiro.net Tue Mar 4 04:00:44 2014 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2014 19:00:44 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] MM3 Test difficulty In-Reply-To: <20140302144616.610f506d@anarchist.wooz.org> References: <20140226095023.17d985b4@limelight.wooz.org> <530E6D04.2010805@msapiro.net> <20140302144616.610f506d@anarchist.wooz.org> Message-ID: <531541DC.6070707@msapiro.net> On 03/02/2014 11:46 AM, Barry Warsaw wrote: > > Looks like upstream released zope.interface 4.1.0, but this hasn't been pulled > into Debian or Ubuntu yet. This breaks other dependencies referenced by > --system-site-packages. > > I'll work on getting a newer zope.interface into the distros, but in the > meantime, when the `python setup.py develop` command stops with this error, > just `pip install -U zope.interface` and then run the develop command again. OK. I now have a puzzle I can't seem to solve. I have two machines with different software installation histories and different OS. Various hardware/driver issues preclude my running the same OS on both. Actually, there's a third machine with yet another OS version, but I haven't tried running MM 3 on it. Anyway, on a machine with Ubuntu 13.10 64 bit, I have a virtualenv with packages up to date, and "python setup.py develop" runs fine and "nose2 -v" runs fine. On the other machine with Ubuntu 12.10 32 bit, I again have a virtualenv with packages up to date, and "python setup.py develop" runs fine, but "nose2 -v" dies immediately with the attached traceback. Both zope.component and zope.interface are the same version on both machines. /var/py27 is the virtualenv. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan -------------- next part -------------- (py27)mark at Notebook-09:/var/MM/3.0$ nose2 -v Traceback (most recent call last): File "/var/py27/bin/nose2", line 9, in load_entry_point('nose2==0.4.7', 'console_scripts', 'nose2')() File "/var/py27/local/lib/python2.7/site-packages/nose2-0.4.7-py2.7.egg/nose2/main.py", line 284, in discover return main(*args, **kwargs) File "/var/py27/local/lib/python2.7/site-packages/nose2-0.4.7-py2.7.egg/nose2/main.py", line 98, in __init__ super(PluggableTestProgram, self).__init__(**kw) File "/usr/lib/python2.7/unittest/main.py", line 94, in __init__ self.parseArgs(argv) File "/var/py27/local/lib/python2.7/site-packages/nose2-0.4.7-py2.7.egg/nose2/main.py", line 118, in parseArgs self.handleCfgArgs(cfg_args) File "/var/py27/local/lib/python2.7/site-packages/nose2-0.4.7-py2.7.egg/nose2/main.py", line 195, in handleCfgArgs self.loadPlugins() File "/var/py27/local/lib/python2.7/site-packages/nose2-0.4.7-py2.7.egg/nose2/main.py", line 240, in loadPlugins self.session.loadPlugins(self.defaultPlugins, self.excludePlugins) File "/var/py27/local/lib/python2.7/site-packages/nose2-0.4.7-py2.7.egg/nose2/session.py", line 134, in loadPlugins self.loadPluginsFromModule(util.module_from_name(module)) File "/var/py27/local/lib/python2.7/site-packages/nose2-0.4.7-py2.7.egg/nose2/util.py", line 80, in module_from_name __import__(name) File "/var/MM/3.0/src/mailman/testing/nose.py", line 34, in from mailman.testing.documentation import setup, teardown File "/var/MM/3.0/src/mailman/testing/documentation.py", line 35, in from mailman.app.lifecycle import create_list File "/var/MM/3.0/src/mailman/app/lifecycle.py", line 34, in from zope.component import getUtility File "/var/py27/local/lib/python2.7/site-packages/zope.component-4.2.0-py2.7.egg/zope/component/__init__.py", line 19, in from zope.interface import named ImportError: cannot import name named -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 198 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From barry at list.org Tue Mar 4 04:10:36 2014 From: barry at list.org (Barry Warsaw) Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2014 22:10:36 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] MM3 Test difficulty In-Reply-To: <531541DC.6070707@msapiro.net> References: <20140226095023.17d985b4@limelight.wooz.org> <530E6D04.2010805@msapiro.net> <20140302144616.610f506d@anarchist.wooz.org> <531541DC.6070707@msapiro.net> Message-ID: <20140303221036.54567062@anarchist.wooz.org> On Mar 03, 2014, at 07:00 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote: >On the other machine with Ubuntu 12.10 32 bit, I again have a virtualenv >with packages up to date, and "python setup.py develop" runs fine, but >"nose2 -v" dies immediately with the attached traceback. Both >zope.component and zope.interface are the same version on both machines. >/var/py27 is the virtualenv. I don't know for sure, but I suspect that zope.interface in your virtualenv isn't actually 4.1.0. I say this because the changelog on PyPI says this: -----snip snip----- zope.interface Changelog 4.1.0 (2014-02-05) Updated boostrap.py to version 2.2. Added @named(name) declaration, that specifies the component name, so it does not have to be passed in during registration. -----snip snip----- https://pypi.python.org/pypi/zope.interface/4.1.0 What happens if you `pip install -U zope.interface` in the virtualenv? -Barry -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 819 bytes Desc: not available URL: From mark at msapiro.net Tue Mar 4 06:30:20 2014 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2014 21:30:20 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] MM3 Test difficulty In-Reply-To: <20140303221036.54567062@anarchist.wooz.org> References: <20140226095023.17d985b4@limelight.wooz.org> <530E6D04.2010805@msapiro.net> <20140302144616.610f506d@anarchist.wooz.org> <531541DC.6070707@msapiro.net> <20140303221036.54567062@anarchist.wooz.org> Message-ID: <531564EC.6080709@msapiro.net> On 03/03/2014 07:10 PM, Barry Warsaw wrote: > > What happens if you `pip install -U zope.interface` in the virtualenv? I don't know what was wrong, but I started over. I removed the virtualenv and then did virtualenv --system-site-packages /var/py27 source /var/py27/bin/activate pip install -U zope.interface cd /var/MM/3.0 (my MM 3 directory) python setup.py develop nose2 -v and this time all was well except two tests failed. The only thing I can think of is at one point, not realizing this was a 32-bit OS, I rsync'd the virtualenv from the 64-bit machine. I thought I had cleaned that all up, but there may have been some .pyc or ?? left. Anyway, it appears this was my fault in not setting up the virtualenv properly somehow. Regarding the failed tests, they seem to possibly be test issues rather than core issues, but the interesting thing is they don't fail on the other machine. Possibly there's a race condition. Also, if I just run the failing tests (and one other) with nose2 -v -P "users.rst|inject.rst" they don't fail. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan -------------- next part -------------- ====================================================================== FAIL: /var/MM/3.0/src/mailman/commands/docs/inject.rst ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Traceback (most recent call last): File "/usr/lib/python2.7/doctest.py", line 2201, in runTest raise self.failureException(self.format_failure(new.getvalue())) AssertionError: Failed doctest test for inject.rst File "/var/MM/3.0/src/mailman/commands/docs/inject.rst", line 0 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File "/var/MM/3.0/src/mailman/commands/docs/inject.rst", line 29, in inject.rst Failed example: command.process(args) Differences (ndiff with -expected +actual): Available queues: archive bad bounces command digest in nntp out pipeline retry shunt + test virgin ====================================================================== FAIL: /var/MM/3.0/src/mailman/model/docs/users.rst ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Traceback (most recent call last): File "/usr/lib/python2.7/doctest.py", line 2201, in runTest raise self.failureException(self.format_failure(new.getvalue())) AssertionError: Failed doctest test for users.rst File "/var/MM/3.0/src/mailman/model/docs/users.rst", line 0 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- File "/var/MM/3.0/src/mailman/model/docs/users.rst", line 276, in users.rst Failed example: getUtility(ILanguageManager).add('it', 'iso-8859-1', 'Italian') Exception raised: Traceback (most recent call last): File "/usr/lib/python2.7/doctest.py", line 1289, in __run compileflags, 1) in test.globs File "", line 1, in getUtility(ILanguageManager).add('it', 'iso-8859-1', 'Italian') File "/var/MM/3.0/src/mailman/languages/manager.py", line 48, in add raise ValueError('Language code already registered: ' + code) ValueError: Language code already registered: it ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Ran 611 tests in 291.114s FAILED (failures=2) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 198 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From flo.fuchs at gmail.com Tue Mar 4 08:47:38 2014 From: flo.fuchs at gmail.com (Florian Fuchs) Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2014 08:47:38 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] [GSoC 2014] Command line Client In-Reply-To: References: <531461F7.6070404@gmail.com> Message-ID: <5315851A.7090707@gmail.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 03/03/2014 03:11 PM, Rajeev S wrote: > Hi Florian, > > I had discussed about the full anonymization project with Stephen > and I had found that I had quite misunderstood the use case of that > project. > > So I have decided to go forward with applying for the mailman > command line client project. > > The deliverables of the project would be, at the least, > > * Command line tools to perform tasks in the mailman client docs * > Any Extra useful functionalities that can be identified, such as > export, backup * Other Useful tools like backup and restore. * Man > Page entries for the new commands Sounds good! But make sure to mark steps 2 to 4 as optional. > Also, I did not quite get the "/coming up with a //great layout /" > part. Do you mean to build a custom shell for mailman? If yes, what > extra functionality should it provide than the standard command > line tools? I don't know if I would call it a shell, but something like that, yes. I talked about it with Patrick Koetter a while ago (who is also a possible mentor for this project), and we had something *a little* similar to the mysql/sqlite3 client in mind. Similar meaning: You start the client (possibly providing some context option, like the database used) and then perform operations on a given context/object (in our case: lists, users, addresses, preferences) using predefined commands. Ideally, the application makes all operations pretty easy, by using auto-completion, a good help function etc. This is just a rough idea though, maybe you can come up with a better one... ;-) Florian -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.12 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJTFYUaAAoJEEceGbPdavl7jEEIAKJa5XMXRXp9HxJsQgyurZi+ YHqbJlGGNPG0eXOkHS2gdkNXp36cwSLgtKZM/1Xj9pvgnj5+MKlMg8528iGUNqDU WUdQlIcWLsVovy0m3ANI77k8I5TBFCl8vX4X0NuR05H6RmqwjtlWs9ZnFXlPnrtd atMCXm7JkEwubTcI+m6I5utLDNzmNLzPwRekFX9umcMR1DXmIDm5v8cE16+DWLmj ZO5Fj83OH8pA6sUvucfR6YddbDlgRsVfC6K88j2yHFl+0GUeYwIoKPHFXu49/zj+ ThcnNkhx4nMiJlKh41urxA27ysvCavbhgjGvehwWp6eDHBQT29lJtBPEWKRRryM= =AY/u -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From stephen at xemacs.org Tue Mar 4 09:32:44 2014 From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull) Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2014 17:32:44 +0900 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Gsoc idea discussions : Continuous integration tool In-Reply-To: References: <53144BD6.5010807@gmail.com> Message-ID: <8738iys6s3.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> varun sharma writes: > > Why would you use Django to build the tool as opposed to "just" a > > python package? > I was thinking of expanding it like buildbot to include django > based GUI and detailed reports. So i thought we can use django, but > if we just want a command line tool, then python module will be > fine. Why not do both? I think that you should be able to separate the "business logic" from the UI elements. Then use the "if __name__ == '__main__':" technique to implement the CLI, and import the module into the optional Django front end. From stephen at xemacs.org Tue Mar 4 10:18:23 2014 From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull) Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2014 18:18:23 +0900 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Wiki edits for GSoC 2014 Message-ID: <871tyis4o0.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> hi guys, I just added a link from "Sprints" to the GSoC 2014 page. I have found it frustrating to see queries from interested students about projects where I have no clue who the appropriate mentor might be, and haven't seen any responses on-list. So ... I took the liberty of adding a "Potential Mentors" line to each project description, and adding myself to several of them. The rest currently say to post here. I also noticed that the Handheld App didn't have a Task Level, so I added it (as "unspecified"). I'm sure the currently signed-up mentors know what to do :-), but if you're considering being a mentor for any of those projects, please do add your name to the project on the wiki. At the very least your input will be very valuable in finding an alternative. If you're pretty sure you are willing and have time to mentor, do go through the GSoC Melange process too. The more mentors we have signed up, the better we look to the PSF (although they've been quite generous to us in the past, every little bit helps -- intern slots are scarce!) Let's make this the best Mailman GSoC yet! Steve From stephen at xemacs.org Tue Mar 4 10:41:47 2014 From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull) Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2014 18:41:47 +0900 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Mentor list on project page Message-ID: <87zjl6qp0k.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> Hi, I added a "Mentor List" (ie, roster) at the end of the project page, and added (besides myself) Florian, Barry and Terri. I don't mind having my address there (so added it) but didn't take liberties with anybody else's mailbox. Regards From stephen at xemacs.org Tue Mar 4 10:49:57 2014 From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull) Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2014 18:49:57 +0900 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] [GSoC 2014] Command line Client In-Reply-To: References: <531461F7.6070404@gmail.com> Message-ID: <87y50qqomy.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> Rajeev S writes: > The deliverables of the project would be, at the least, > > - Command line tools to perform tasks in the mailman client docs I think there should be one tool with multiple commands. These can be implemented by separate commands in a directory off the normal PATH if you like, or with annoyingly long names (a la git's scripting interface). > - Any Extra useful functionalities that can be identified, such as > export, backup > - Other Useful tools like backup and restore. > - Man Page entries for the new commands These look good to me. Also, a help command to display the man pages from the new tool. > Also, I did not quite get the "*coming up with a **great layout *" > part. Do you mean to build a custom shell for mailman? If yes, what > extra functionality should it provide than the standard command > line tools? I think that probably is what he means, but I personally don't think that's appropriate. If people want a "CLI with layout" (which I agree is plausible), what's wrong with Postorius via Lynx? (Florian?) I suggest you should concentrate on the syntax of the command line, possibly building on the existing mailmanctl tool. (But let's check with Barry on that before you put in much effort!) Steve From raj.abhilash1 at gmail.com Tue Mar 4 10:53:24 2014 From: raj.abhilash1 at gmail.com (Abhilash Raj) Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2014 15:23:24 +0530 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Mentor list on project page In-Reply-To: <87zjl6qp0k.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> References: <87zjl6qp0k.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> Message-ID: Hi, I have a pretty good understand of the mailman core, I would love to co-mentor any project if I am allowed? On Tue, Mar 4, 2014 at 3:11 PM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: > Hi, > > I added a "Mentor List" (ie, roster) at the end of the project page, > and added (besides myself) Florian, Barry and Terri. I don't mind > having my address there (so added it) but didn't take liberties with > anybody else's mailbox. > > Regards > _______________________________________________ > Mailman-Developers mailing list > Mailman-Developers at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers > Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 > Searchable Archives: > http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-developers%40python.org/ > Unsubscribe: > https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-developers/raj.abhilash1%40gmail.com > > Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 > -- Abhilash Raj From barry at list.org Tue Mar 4 16:13:49 2014 From: barry at list.org (Barry Warsaw) Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2014 10:13:49 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] MM3 Test difficulty In-Reply-To: <531564EC.6080709@msapiro.net> References: <20140226095023.17d985b4@limelight.wooz.org> <530E6D04.2010805@msapiro.net> <20140302144616.610f506d@anarchist.wooz.org> <531541DC.6070707@msapiro.net> <20140303221036.54567062@anarchist.wooz.org> <531564EC.6080709@msapiro.net> Message-ID: <20140304101349.6dc258ec@anarchist.wooz.org> On Mar 03, 2014, at 09:30 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote: >and this time all was well except two tests failed. The only thing I can >think of is at one point, not realizing this was a 32-bit OS, I rsync'd >the virtualenv from the 64-bit machine. I thought I had cleaned that all >up, but there may have been some .pyc or ?? left. That might have been the problem. I think zope.interface has some C extension modules for performance, and that would not be cross-architecture compatible. So it's possible that broke the installation or importability of 4.1.0 in your venv. -Barry -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 819 bytes Desc: not available URL: From ms at sys4.de Tue Mar 4 10:54:07 2014 From: ms at sys4.de (Michael Schwartzkopff) Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2014 10:54:07 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Mentor list on project page In-Reply-To: <87zjl6qp0k.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> References: <87zjl6qp0k.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> Message-ID: <2498786.2S6911Q3rN@nb003> Am Dienstag, 4. M?rz 2014, 18:41:47 schrieb Stephen J. Turnbull: > Hi, > > I added a "Mentor List" (ie, roster) at the end of the project page, > and added (besides myself) Florian, Barry and Terri. I don't mind > having my address there (so added it) but didn't take liberties with > anybody else's mailbox. Hi, you can add me to the mentors. I'd like to help with the SNMP part. I am no yet subscribed to the GSoC page, because I do not understand their user interface. Florian will help me tomorrow. Greetings, -- Mit freundlichen Gr??en, Michael Schwartzkopff -- [*] sys4 AG http://sys4.de, +49 (89) 30 90 46 64, +49 (162) 165 0044 Franziskanerstra?e 15, 81669 M?nchen Sitz der Gesellschaft: M?nchen, Amtsgericht M?nchen: HRB 199263 Vorstand: Patrick Ben Koetter, Marc Schiffbauer Aufsichtsratsvorsitzender: Florian Kirstein -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 230 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part. URL: From kgupta8592 at gmail.com Tue Mar 4 19:47:30 2014 From: kgupta8592 at gmail.com (Kshitij Gupta) Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2014 00:17:30 +0530 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] [GSoC14] Full Anonymization Project Idea Message-ID: Hello, I am Kshitij Gupta, an undergrad student in Computer Science and Engineering at National Institute of Technology, Jamshedpur, India. I have previously worked on AppArmor Profile Tools[1] in GSoC'13 for openSUSE and have some experience with Python and bzr/launchpad. I have had little exposure to workings of email and mail servers. I have been looking at the project description and found the idea particularly interesting as it will allow me learn about internal working of mailman and also understand privacy aspects. As I understand, we can do this in the following ways: 1. For each subscriber on the mailing list generate a random encryption and decryption key, which will be store in the database. 2. Everytime user sends the mail we can encrypt the email to a hash which will then be used as the pseudo id for the user. To do this we can either use salt (as in time) to ensure a new email id is generated everytime or without salt which equivalently fixes a single id for the user. 3. From the email we can cleanup headers, converting the users timezone to a standard UTC timezone. 4. We can also hash the users original email id and append it as a signature to sign the mail, ensuring the authenticity of mail in a conversation. 5. For replies, the person replying can respond to the message, the email address will then be decrypted by matching against the list of all decryption keys and matching the digest of the mail id for additional security and forwarding it to the intended user. The above steps (in my understanding): 1. Will allow users to anonymously post to mailing lists. 2. Ensure nobody can pretend to be someone else in a thread via the personal salt. 3. Allow users to communicate in threads and reply to each other. 4. Use a constant space for users in the database, at the cost of matching against multiple decryption keys and then checking against the hashed email. Look forward to some feedback and hope to contribute to the mailman community. [1]- https://code.launchpad.net/apparmor-profile-tools , however the code was recently merged into the branch upstream at: https://code.launchpad.net/apparmor where development continues. Regards, Kshitij Gupta From stephen at xemacs.org Wed Mar 5 05:27:31 2014 From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull) Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2014 13:27:31 +0900 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] [GSoC14] Full Anonymization Project Idea In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <87ha7dqngs.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> In general, what is missing from these "anonymization" proposals are use cases, user stories which display the reasons for anonymity and the definition of anonymity (for example, should repeated posts from a given subscriber have the same "From" field or not?) For example, the following organizations want a "fully anonymized" list: 1. An Alcoholics Anonymous meeting. 2. A therapy group for battered wives led by a professional therapist (whose identity is known to all, and who knows all realspace identities -- but maybe can't match them to list identities). 3. A corporate whistleblower/suggestion box. 4. A terrorist cell. (I'm not suggesting we should *care* about serving these people well, and maybe we should try *not* to serve them -- it's an intellectual exercise.) 5. A tax evaders users' group. (ditto) How do their needs differ? How are they similar? How well does your proposal serve their needs? I'm not too serious about that specific list, individual students may or may not have experience and knowledge of those use cases. But I would strongly prefer to work with a student who thinks about these issues *explicitly* and *concretely* in terms of use cases. In particular, it may seem obvious that we can't protect the subscriber database against the site admin/root, but then we have to give up on use case 3 above. Or do we? These are hard, *hard*, HARD questions. Even Bruce Schneier (if you don't know who he is, find out!) might not get the answers at first try. I don't ask you to get the hard ones at all! But sometimes the answer is obvious from just asking the question (use case 3 vs root access), so you'd best ask some of those easy ones. :-) About this specific proposal: Kshitij Gupta writes: > As I understand, we can do this in the following ways: > 1. For each subscriber on the mailing list generate a random encryption and > decryption key, which will be store in the database. If the keys never leave the database, why not use symmetric encryption? Why do different subscribers need different keys? If they do leave the database, how are they distributed? How is the distribution protected from the standard attacks (eg, man in the middle)? > 2. Everytime user sends the mail we can encrypt the email to a hash which > will then be used as the pseudo id for the user. To do this we can either > use salt (as in time) to ensure a new email id is generated everytime I don't understand why you would ever want this, let alone why there is a use case common enough to be worth implementing in Mailman. That doesn't mean there isn't any, but please explain. > or without salt which equivalently fixes a single id for the user. > 3. From the email we can cleanup headers, converting the users timezone to > a standard UTC timezone. You also probably need to handle Message-ID specially. > 4. We can also hash the users original email id and append it as a > signature to sign the mail, ensuring the authenticity of mail in a > conversation. That's not how digital signatures are done, and only those with access to a descryption key can check authenticity. > 5. For replies, the person replying can respond to the message, the email > address will then be decrypted by matching against the list of all > decryption keys and matching the digest of the mail id for additional > security and forwarding it to the intended user. I'm not sure I understand the "additional security part." In any case, if you have a "digest", why not use that as a unique key into the user database, so that the actual decryption becomes an authentication, and only needs to be done once? > The above steps (in my understanding): > 1. Will allow users to anonymously post to mailing lists. Except that the site admin knows where to find each user. The site admin had better be the only entity with such access. > 2. Ensure nobody can pretend to be someone else in a thread via the > personal salt. But how about spoofing subscriptions? Do we care about that? What if a user happens to know the address of another user, and spoofs that? > 3. Allow users to communicate in threads and reply to each other. > 4. Use a constant space for users in the database, at the cost of matching > against multiple decryption keys and then checking against the hashed email. Is constant space really an issue? > Look forward to some feedback and hope to contribute to the mailman > community. > > [1]- https://code.launchpad.net/apparmor-profile-tools , however the code > was recently merged into the branch upstream at: > https://code.launchpad.net/apparmor where development continues. > > Regards, > Kshitij Gupta > _______________________________________________ > Mailman-Developers mailing list > Mailman-Developers at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers > Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 > Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-developers%40python.org/ > Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-developers/stephen%40xemacs.org > > Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 From stephen at xemacs.org Wed Mar 5 06:54:10 2014 From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull) Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2014 14:54:10 +0900 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Mentor list on project page In-Reply-To: References: <87zjl6qp0k.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> Message-ID: <87bnxlqjgd.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> Abhilash Raj writes: > Hi,I have a pretty good understand of the mailman core, I would > love to co-mentor any project if I am allowed? You're allowed. Lots of former students (and the occasional current student as well!) are mentors. Some of the following my sound harsh, and it is my private opinion; I don't speak for Mailman or for GSoC. I expose it on this list because there may be others lurking with the ambition to be a mentor, and they're in similar situation to you in many ways. I'm not opposed making you a formal mentor (that's not my decision, but my opinion will surely be input to it), but I'm not very positive right now. I have had only very sporadic contact with you since GSoC last year. No explanations needed, it's just a fact, and it's two- sided issue, anyway. I just want you to know where you stand -- it is not a criticism of *you*, and it's not a "decision". To be a formal mentor (and "get the stupid T-shirt" :-), you will need to establish a presence with at least one, preferably several of the current mentors. We need confidence that you'll be available to the student when she/he gets in trouble. Not 100%, but a mentor or co-mentor who doesn't contribute much and then disappears halfway is a really bad thing, and we especially need confidence that you'll be around at deadline time (there's no administrative difference between mentor and co-mentor: both can edit the evaluation forms, both can see the same student data), because you may need to do the evaluation if your co-mentor is unavailable. On the other hand, informally, if you want to mentor, just start. Your goal should be to make it clear that we can't dispense with your advice on a project we want to implement. Then we *have* to make you an official mentor! (I'm not sure if there's a deadline on that.) Of course "indispensible" is a *very* high standard, but the advice to just start mentoring (on-list) is the best you're going to get. The more of that you do, the better we know you. Including your faults -- having your faults known IS AN ADVANTAGE because that way we can give you a good teammate who has strengths there! Other things you can do: participate in the sprints at PyCon. Most of the mentors will be sprinting. I can't go myself, but will participate by IRC and email, and try to do work in advance so it's easily available to the onsite sprinters. Of course general development work, submitting patches, and discussing them publicly is useful. But in the end, the most effective path is to show that you *are* a mentor, by doing it! From flo.fuchs at gmail.com Wed Mar 5 11:07:38 2014 From: flo.fuchs at gmail.com (Florian Fuchs) Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2014 11:07:38 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] [GSoC 2014] Command line Client In-Reply-To: <87y50qqomy.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> References: <531461F7.6070404@gmail.com> <87y50qqomy.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> Message-ID: <5316F76A.9070204@gmail.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 03/04/2014 10:49 AM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: > Rajeev S writes: >> Also, I did not quite get the "*coming up with a **great layout >> *" part. Do you mean to build a custom shell for mailman? If yes, >> what extra functionality should it provide than the standard >> command line tools? > > I think that probably is what he means, but I personally don't > think that's appropriate. If people want a "CLI with layout" > (which I agree is plausible), what's wrong with Postorius via Lynx? > (Florian?) No, that's not what I meant (using the term "layout" was obviously confusing - sorry for that!). I think we're talking about two possible, but very different concepts of a client here: One is the one-off command (with options) that outputs a result, either on stdout or saved to a file. This could make for an interesting project, but I think then it would really make more sense (like Steve said) to extend the existing `mailman` command instead of writing a new one. The other (and the one I had in mind) is a tool you invoke with a commando which then offers a interface a little different from that of your standard terminal shell (bash or else). Just like you invoke the mysql/sqlite3 client (with a db name or file as option). What I meant by "layout" is really the question what happens after one starts the tool by typing something like `$ mmclient --list=foo at bar.id`" or `$ mmclient --domain=python.org`", not the actual visual representation. Does that make more sense? Florian -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.12 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJTFvdqAAoJEEceGbPdavl76KIIAKLIsZEux/TPCSNV9sEQGJt1 s5gkIT298wZPPQfG+b2kllMO9o6uObQ0K10Ynk4yzLi1YngTyR1kC52Ty6uZ1pws YvD87o7DCeoZWDMss77+zvJkpkG+zFn4Ts3taeWW/9A1N9fJP22izgtm9aki+RLn 8nWn4jfTmnE3TvU8ptr/5uK0LPApfjMZz0mGCc6jgExdsJhVw11LU0Wzoxtw9424 1ygW2zWPcvdHTqykluvf62u24oTna641vNxE60LB9e4SF6LhS0Pi+F/w+m8zjNAT q3xY76yNlhZVI/N2cR4jinuUbagX61DSu7mgC4Kk08oyN6TgkS9kknlYrGupQ3c= =ufWT -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From bgolla at g.clemson.edu Wed Mar 5 15:06:13 2014 From: bgolla at g.clemson.edu (Bhargav Golla) Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2014 09:06:13 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] [GSoC 2014] Cordova/Android App for GNU Mailman Admin Interface In-Reply-To: References: <5312CD26.7060204@toybox.ca> Message-ID: Thanks for that change Rajeev. I was able to get the Web UI up and running. I was trying to find out the default Username and password for this but was unable to. When I was exploring docs in mailman.client and some config files in mailman, I found that the default username and password for admin is restadmin and restpass. Tried that and was out of luck there too. Could you help me with the default username and password details? Also, there is a using.txt doc in mailman.client which says we can make the REST requests by connecting to http://localhost:9001/3.0 using username and password. Should the URL be http://localhost:9000/3.0 for this example or would it be any different? Thanks On Mon, Mar 3, 2014 at 1:38 PM, Rajeev S wrote: > Hi Bhargav, > > Just do *mailman start*, without the bin. > > I have edited the wiki. > > > *Regards, Rajeev S* > *Government Engineering College,Thrissur* > *http://rajeevs.tk * > > > On Mon, Mar 3, 2014 at 10:37 PM, Bhargav Golla wrote: > >> Thanks Barry and Terri for your feedback. >> I was trying to install Postorius locally and analyze what all would be >> required in a mobile app for Admin. Doing the same, I have hit a >> roadblock. >> I am using the wiki provided here[1]. I tried to install mailman using >> "set >> up sources" part of the wiki. Though python setup.py install executes >> without any errors, I am unable to see the folder bin/ in the same >> directory. So, even though I proceed with further setup, I am getting a >> "Mailman REST API not available. Please start mailman core" on my >> localhost:8000 webpage. Could anyone help me here? >> >> [1] >> >> http://wiki.list.org/display/DEV/A+5+minute+guide+to+get+the+Mailman+web+UI+running >> >> Thanks >> >> >> On Sun, Mar 2, 2014 at 1:18 AM, Terri Oda wrote: >> >> > >> > On 2014-02-28, 7:36 AM, Bhargav Golla wrote: >> > >> >> I have a few questions regarding this idea. >> >> 1. I intend to develop it on Cordova since it will help in porting the >> app >> >> easily to multiple platforms. Were there any ideas in this directions >> >> regarding going native or hybrid? >> >> >> > >> > Personally, I'd prefer if we went hybrid and had an html5 webapp that >> > could be used straight over the web for mobile users who don't want to >> > install an app, with Cordova used to build the individual platform >> apps. I >> > may not be the mentor on this one, though, so I'm happy to defer to >> whoever >> > the final mentor is on this front. >> > >> > Incidentally, I've been using Intel's XDK for building Cordova apps >> lately >> > and highly recommend it for quick testing on various platforms and >> screen >> > sizes. I've found it a very useful tool, and not just because I work >> for >> > Intel now! >> > >> > 2. Can I assume that all mailing lists built by Mailman support the >> REST >> >> interface? Also, I have tried to see if I can get JSON responses and I >> am >> >> unable to by adding a HTTP Accept Header to take "application/json". >> Am I >> >> doing anything wrong or is JSON not implemented? >> >> >> > >> > I don't know the answer to this off the top of my head: Barry? >> > >> > >> > 3. As a starter, could I ignore internationalization for GSoC, but >> >> implement interface in such a way as to be able to internationalize it >> >> easily? >> >> >> > >> > We don't expect you to actually translate anything, don't worry. :) But >> > you should definitely build as much as possible so that >> > internationalization will be easy: make sure there's a quick way to get >> a >> > list of strings that need translation, at least. Some of the strings >> may >> > be already translated in other components of Mailman, so you may be >> able to >> > get some translations to use to test if you have time at the end of the >> > summer for internationalization. >> > >> > Terri >> > >> > >> >> >> -- >> Bhargav Golla >> M.S Computer Science >> Github | >> LinkedIN >> | Website >> _______________________________________________ >> Mailman-Developers mailing list >> Mailman-Developers at python.org >> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers >> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 >> Searchable Archives: >> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-developers%40python.org/ >> Unsubscribe: >> https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-developers/rajeevs1992%40gmail.com >> >> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 >> > > -- Bhargav Golla M.S Computer Science Github | LinkedIN | Website From bgolla at g.clemson.edu Wed Mar 5 15:35:33 2014 From: bgolla at g.clemson.edu (Bhargav Golla) Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2014 09:35:33 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] [GSoC 2014] Cordova/Android App for GNU Mailman Admin Interface In-Reply-To: <53173316.9030608@gmail.com> References: <5312CD26.7060204@toybox.ca> <53173316.9030608@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi Abhilash If you mean the last step of installation where we do cd postorius_standalone;python manage.py syncdb, I wasn't asked for any username/password. I checked the settings.py and it doesn't have any specific default username/password. And the http://localhost:8001/3.0 worked for me. On Wed, Mar 5, 2014 at 9:22 AM, Abhilash Raj wrote: > Hi Bhargav, > > On Wednesday 05 March 2014 07:36 PM, Bhargav Golla wrote: > > Thanks for that change Rajeev. I was able to get the Web UI up and > running. > > I was trying to find out the default Username and password for this but > was > > unable to. When I was exploring docs in mailman.client and some config > > files in mailman, I found that the default username and password for > admin > > is restadmin and restpass. Tried that and was out of luck there too. > Could > > you help me with the default username and password details? > > While setting up Postorius(the web UI) when you do 'python manage.py > syncdb' for the first time, it asks you to create admin. You can log in > using those credentials. 'restadmin' and 'restpass' are the credentials > for the mailman rest server. > > > Also, there is a using.txt doc in mailman.client which says we can make > the > > REST requests by connecting to http://localhost:9001/3.0 using username > and > > password. Should the URL be http://localhost:9000/3.0 for this example > or > > would it be any different? > > AFAIK it is 'http://localhost:8001/3.0'. (Try it once. If I am wrong > please someone correct me) > > > > > Thanks > > > > > > On Mon, Mar 3, 2014 at 1:38 PM, Rajeev S wrote: > > > >> Hi Bhargav, > >> > >> Just do *mailman start*, without the bin. > >> > >> I have edited the wiki. > >> > >> > >> *Regards, Rajeev S* > >> *Government Engineering College,Thrissur* > >> *http://rajeevs.tk * > >> > >> > >> On Mon, Mar 3, 2014 at 10:37 PM, Bhargav Golla >wrote: > >> > >>> Thanks Barry and Terri for your feedback. > >>> I was trying to install Postorius locally and analyze what all would be > >>> required in a mobile app for Admin. Doing the same, I have hit a > >>> roadblock. > >>> I am using the wiki provided here[1]. I tried to install mailman using > >>> "set > >>> up sources" part of the wiki. Though python setup.py install executes > >>> without any errors, I am unable to see the folder bin/ in the same > >>> directory. So, even though I proceed with further setup, I am getting a > >>> "Mailman REST API not available. Please start mailman core" on my > >>> localhost:8000 webpage. Could anyone help me here? > >>> > >>> [1] > >>> > >>> > http://wiki.list.org/display/DEV/A+5+minute+guide+to+get+the+Mailman+web+UI+running > >>> > >>> Thanks > >>> > >>> > >>> On Sun, Mar 2, 2014 at 1:18 AM, Terri Oda wrote: > >>> > >>>> > >>>> On 2014-02-28, 7:36 AM, Bhargav Golla wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> I have a few questions regarding this idea. > >>>>> 1. I intend to develop it on Cordova since it will help in porting > the > >>> app > >>>>> easily to multiple platforms. Were there any ideas in this directions > >>>>> regarding going native or hybrid? > >>>>> > >>>> > >>>> Personally, I'd prefer if we went hybrid and had an html5 webapp that > >>>> could be used straight over the web for mobile users who don't want to > >>>> install an app, with Cordova used to build the individual platform > >>> apps. I > >>>> may not be the mentor on this one, though, so I'm happy to defer to > >>> whoever > >>>> the final mentor is on this front. > >>>> > >>>> Incidentally, I've been using Intel's XDK for building Cordova apps > >>> lately > >>>> and highly recommend it for quick testing on various platforms and > >>> screen > >>>> sizes. I've found it a very useful tool, and not just because I work > >>> for > >>>> Intel now! > >>>> > >>>> 2. Can I assume that all mailing lists built by Mailman support the > >>> REST > >>>>> interface? Also, I have tried to see if I can get JSON responses and > I > >>> am > >>>>> unable to by adding a HTTP Accept Header to take "application/json". > >>> Am I > >>>>> doing anything wrong or is JSON not implemented? > >>>>> > >>>> > >>>> I don't know the answer to this off the top of my head: Barry? > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> 3. As a starter, could I ignore internationalization for GSoC, but > >>>>> implement interface in such a way as to be able to internationalize > it > >>>>> easily? > >>>>> > >>>> > >>>> We don't expect you to actually translate anything, don't worry. :) > But > >>>> you should definitely build as much as possible so that > >>>> internationalization will be easy: make sure there's a quick way to > get > >>> a > >>>> list of strings that need translation, at least. Some of the strings > >>> may > >>>> be already translated in other components of Mailman, so you may be > >>> able to > >>>> get some translations to use to test if you have time at the end of > the > >>>> summer for internationalization. > >>>> > >>>> Terri > >>>> > >>>> > >>> > >>> > >>> -- > >>> Bhargav Golla > >>> M.S Computer Science > >>> Github | > >>> LinkedIN > >>> | Website > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Mailman-Developers mailing list > >>> Mailman-Developers at python.org > >>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers > >>> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 > >>> Searchable Archives: > >>> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-developers%40python.org/ > >>> Unsubscribe: > >>> > https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-developers/rajeevs1992%40gmail.com > >>> > >>> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 > >>> > >> > >> > > > > > > -- > Abhilash Raj > > -- Bhargav Golla M.S Computer Science Github | LinkedIN | Website From rajeevs1992 at gmail.com Wed Mar 5 16:00:49 2014 From: rajeevs1992 at gmail.com (Rajeev S) Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2014 20:30:49 +0530 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] [GSoC 2014] Cordova/Android App for GNU Mailman Admin Interface In-Reply-To: References: <5312CD26.7060204@toybox.ca> <53173316.9030608@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi Bhargav, You will be asked whether to *add a superuser* during *syncdb*. If you answered no to that, do *python manage.py createsuperuser * and use that username and password to login. *Regards,Rajeev S* *Government Engineering College,Thrissur* *http://rajeevs.tk * On Wed, Mar 5, 2014 at 8:05 PM, Bhargav Golla wrote: > Hi Abhilash > > If you mean the last step of installation where we do cd > postorius_standalone;python manage.py syncdb, I wasn't asked for any > username/password. I checked the settings.py and it doesn't have any > specific default username/password. > > And the http://localhost:8001/3.0 worked for me. > > > On Wed, Mar 5, 2014 at 9:22 AM, Abhilash Raj >wrote: > > > Hi Bhargav, > > > > On Wednesday 05 March 2014 07:36 PM, Bhargav Golla wrote: > > > Thanks for that change Rajeev. I was able to get the Web UI up and > > running. > > > I was trying to find out the default Username and password for this but > > was > > > unable to. When I was exploring docs in mailman.client and some config > > > files in mailman, I found that the default username and password for > > admin > > > is restadmin and restpass. Tried that and was out of luck there too. > > Could > > > you help me with the default username and password details? > > > > While setting up Postorius(the web UI) when you do 'python manage.py > > syncdb' for the first time, it asks you to create admin. You can log in > > using those credentials. 'restadmin' and 'restpass' are the credentials > > for the mailman rest server. > > > > > Also, there is a using.txt doc in mailman.client which says we can make > > the > > > REST requests by connecting to http://localhost:9001/3.0 using > username > > and > > > password. Should the URL be http://localhost:9000/3.0 for this example > > or > > > would it be any different? > > > > AFAIK it is 'http://localhost:8001/3.0'. (Try it once. If I am wrong > > please someone correct me) > > > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Mar 3, 2014 at 1:38 PM, Rajeev S > wrote: > > > > > >> Hi Bhargav, > > >> > > >> Just do *mailman start*, without the bin. > > >> > > >> I have edited the wiki. > > >> > > >> > > >> *Regards, Rajeev S* > > >> *Government Engineering College,Thrissur* > > >> *http://rajeevs.tk * > > >> > > >> > > >> On Mon, Mar 3, 2014 at 10:37 PM, Bhargav Golla > >wrote: > > >> > > >>> Thanks Barry and Terri for your feedback. > > >>> I was trying to install Postorius locally and analyze what all would > be > > >>> required in a mobile app for Admin. Doing the same, I have hit a > > >>> roadblock. > > >>> I am using the wiki provided here[1]. I tried to install mailman > using > > >>> "set > > >>> up sources" part of the wiki. Though python setup.py install executes > > >>> without any errors, I am unable to see the folder bin/ in the same > > >>> directory. So, even though I proceed with further setup, I am > getting a > > >>> "Mailman REST API not available. Please start mailman core" on my > > >>> localhost:8000 webpage. Could anyone help me here? > > >>> > > >>> [1] > > >>> > > >>> > > > http://wiki.list.org/display/DEV/A+5+minute+guide+to+get+the+Mailman+web+UI+running > > >>> > > >>> Thanks > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> On Sun, Mar 2, 2014 at 1:18 AM, Terri Oda wrote: > > >>> > > >>>> > > >>>> On 2014-02-28, 7:36 AM, Bhargav Golla wrote: > > >>>> > > >>>>> I have a few questions regarding this idea. > > >>>>> 1. I intend to develop it on Cordova since it will help in porting > > the > > >>> app > > >>>>> easily to multiple platforms. Were there any ideas in this > directions > > >>>>> regarding going native or hybrid? > > >>>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> Personally, I'd prefer if we went hybrid and had an html5 webapp > that > > >>>> could be used straight over the web for mobile users who don't want > to > > >>>> install an app, with Cordova used to build the individual platform > > >>> apps. I > > >>>> may not be the mentor on this one, though, so I'm happy to defer to > > >>> whoever > > >>>> the final mentor is on this front. > > >>>> > > >>>> Incidentally, I've been using Intel's XDK for building Cordova apps > > >>> lately > > >>>> and highly recommend it for quick testing on various platforms and > > >>> screen > > >>>> sizes. I've found it a very useful tool, and not just because I > work > > >>> for > > >>>> Intel now! > > >>>> > > >>>> 2. Can I assume that all mailing lists built by Mailman support the > > >>> REST > > >>>>> interface? Also, I have tried to see if I can get JSON responses > and > > I > > >>> am > > >>>>> unable to by adding a HTTP Accept Header to take > "application/json". > > >>> Am I > > >>>>> doing anything wrong or is JSON not implemented? > > >>>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> I don't know the answer to this off the top of my head: Barry? > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> 3. As a starter, could I ignore internationalization for GSoC, but > > >>>>> implement interface in such a way as to be able to internationalize > > it > > >>>>> easily? > > >>>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> We don't expect you to actually translate anything, don't worry. :) > > But > > >>>> you should definitely build as much as possible so that > > >>>> internationalization will be easy: make sure there's a quick way to > > get > > >>> a > > >>>> list of strings that need translation, at least. Some of the > strings > > >>> may > > >>>> be already translated in other components of Mailman, so you may be > > >>> able to > > >>>> get some translations to use to test if you have time at the end of > > the > > >>>> summer for internationalization. > > >>>> > > >>>> Terri > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> -- > > >>> Bhargav Golla > > >>> M.S Computer Science > > >>> Github | > > >>> LinkedIN > > >>> | Website > > >>> _______________________________________________ > > >>> Mailman-Developers mailing list > > >>> Mailman-Developers at python.org > > >>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers > > >>> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 > > >>> Searchable Archives: > > >>> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-developers%40python.org/ > > >>> Unsubscribe: > > >>> > > > https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-developers/rajeevs1992%40gmail.com > > >>> > > >>> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 > > >>> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Abhilash Raj > > > > > > > -- > Bhargav Golla > M.S Computer Science > Github | > LinkedIN > | Website > _______________________________________________ > Mailman-Developers mailing list > Mailman-Developers at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers > Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 > Searchable Archives: > http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-developers%40python.org/ > Unsubscribe: > https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-developers/rajeevs1992%40gmail.com > > Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 > From barry at list.org Wed Mar 5 16:02:42 2014 From: barry at list.org (Barry Warsaw) Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2014 10:02:42 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] [GSoC 2014] Cordova/Android App for GNU Mailman Admin Interface In-Reply-To: References: <5312CD26.7060204@toybox.ca> Message-ID: <20140305100242.1c364e34@anarchist.wooz.org> On Mar 05, 2014, at 09:06 AM, Bhargav Golla wrote: >files in mailman, I found that the default username and password for admin >is restadmin and restpass. Tried that and was out of luck there too. Could >you help me with the default username and password details? That's only the default username and password for the privileged admin REST API in the core. The web ui uses that to speak to the core, but if you're connecting to the web ui, that username and password won't be exposed. -Barry -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 819 bytes Desc: not available URL: From bgolla at g.clemson.edu Wed Mar 5 16:17:39 2014 From: bgolla at g.clemson.edu (Bhargav Golla) Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2014 10:17:39 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] [GSoC 2014] Cordova/Android App for GNU Mailman Admin Interface In-Reply-To: References: <5312CD26.7060204@toybox.ca> <53173316.9030608@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi Rajeev I wasn't asked if I wanted to create a super user when I executed python manage.py syncdb. This was the output I got with syncdb: Creating tables... Installing Custome SQL... Installing indexes... Installed 0 object(s) from 0 fixture(s) I tried python manage.py createsuperuser and was able to login with details I provided there. Thanks for your help. Regards On Wed, Mar 5, 2014 at 10:00 AM, Rajeev S wrote: > Hi Bhargav, > > You will be asked whether to *add a superuser* during *syncdb*. If you > answered no to that, do *python manage.py createsuperuser * and use that > username and password to login. > > > *Regards,Rajeev S* > *Government Engineering College,Thrissur* > *http://rajeevs.tk * > > > On Wed, Mar 5, 2014 at 8:05 PM, Bhargav Golla wrote: > >> Hi Abhilash >> >> If you mean the last step of installation where we do cd >> postorius_standalone;python manage.py syncdb, I wasn't asked for any >> username/password. I checked the settings.py and it doesn't have any >> specific default username/password. >> >> And the http://localhost:8001/3.0 worked for me. >> >> >> On Wed, Mar 5, 2014 at 9:22 AM, Abhilash Raj > >wrote: >> >> > Hi Bhargav, >> > >> > On Wednesday 05 March 2014 07:36 PM, Bhargav Golla wrote: >> > > Thanks for that change Rajeev. I was able to get the Web UI up and >> > running. >> > > I was trying to find out the default Username and password for this >> but >> > was >> > > unable to. When I was exploring docs in mailman.client and some config >> > > files in mailman, I found that the default username and password for >> > admin >> > > is restadmin and restpass. Tried that and was out of luck there too. >> > Could >> > > you help me with the default username and password details? >> > >> > While setting up Postorius(the web UI) when you do 'python manage.py >> > syncdb' for the first time, it asks you to create admin. You can log in >> > using those credentials. 'restadmin' and 'restpass' are the credentials >> > for the mailman rest server. >> > >> > > Also, there is a using.txt doc in mailman.client which says we can >> make >> > the >> > > REST requests by connecting to http://localhost:9001/3.0 using >> username >> > and >> > > password. Should the URL be http://localhost:9000/3.0 for this >> example >> > or >> > > would it be any different? >> > >> > AFAIK it is 'http://localhost:8001/3.0'. (Try it once. If I am wrong >> > please someone correct me) >> > >> > > >> > > Thanks >> > > >> > > >> > > On Mon, Mar 3, 2014 at 1:38 PM, Rajeev S >> wrote: >> > > >> > >> Hi Bhargav, >> > >> >> > >> Just do *mailman start*, without the bin. >> > >> >> > >> I have edited the wiki. >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> *Regards, Rajeev S* >> > >> *Government Engineering College,Thrissur* >> > >> *http://rajeevs.tk * >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> On Mon, Mar 3, 2014 at 10:37 PM, Bhargav Golla > > >wrote: >> > >> >> > >>> Thanks Barry and Terri for your feedback. >> > >>> I was trying to install Postorius locally and analyze what all >> would be >> > >>> required in a mobile app for Admin. Doing the same, I have hit a >> > >>> roadblock. >> > >>> I am using the wiki provided here[1]. I tried to install mailman >> using >> > >>> "set >> > >>> up sources" part of the wiki. Though python setup.py install >> executes >> > >>> without any errors, I am unable to see the folder bin/ in the same >> > >>> directory. So, even though I proceed with further setup, I am >> getting a >> > >>> "Mailman REST API not available. Please start mailman core" on my >> > >>> localhost:8000 webpage. Could anyone help me here? >> > >>> >> > >>> [1] >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >> http://wiki.list.org/display/DEV/A+5+minute+guide+to+get+the+Mailman+web+UI+running >> > >>> >> > >>> Thanks >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> On Sun, Mar 2, 2014 at 1:18 AM, Terri Oda wrote: >> > >>> >> > >>>> >> > >>>> On 2014-02-28, 7:36 AM, Bhargav Golla wrote: >> > >>>> >> > >>>>> I have a few questions regarding this idea. >> > >>>>> 1. I intend to develop it on Cordova since it will help in porting >> > the >> > >>> app >> > >>>>> easily to multiple platforms. Were there any ideas in this >> directions >> > >>>>> regarding going native or hybrid? >> > >>>>> >> > >>>> >> > >>>> Personally, I'd prefer if we went hybrid and had an html5 webapp >> that >> > >>>> could be used straight over the web for mobile users who don't >> want to >> > >>>> install an app, with Cordova used to build the individual platform >> > >>> apps. I >> > >>>> may not be the mentor on this one, though, so I'm happy to defer to >> > >>> whoever >> > >>>> the final mentor is on this front. >> > >>>> >> > >>>> Incidentally, I've been using Intel's XDK for building Cordova apps >> > >>> lately >> > >>>> and highly recommend it for quick testing on various platforms and >> > >>> screen >> > >>>> sizes. I've found it a very useful tool, and not just because I >> work >> > >>> for >> > >>>> Intel now! >> > >>>> >> > >>>> 2. Can I assume that all mailing lists built by Mailman support >> the >> > >>> REST >> > >>>>> interface? Also, I have tried to see if I can get JSON responses >> and >> > I >> > >>> am >> > >>>>> unable to by adding a HTTP Accept Header to take >> "application/json". >> > >>> Am I >> > >>>>> doing anything wrong or is JSON not implemented? >> > >>>>> >> > >>>> >> > >>>> I don't know the answer to this off the top of my head: Barry? >> > >>>> >> > >>>> >> > >>>> 3. As a starter, could I ignore internationalization for GSoC, but >> > >>>>> implement interface in such a way as to be able to >> internationalize >> > it >> > >>>>> easily? >> > >>>>> >> > >>>> >> > >>>> We don't expect you to actually translate anything, don't worry. :) >> > But >> > >>>> you should definitely build as much as possible so that >> > >>>> internationalization will be easy: make sure there's a quick way to >> > get >> > >>> a >> > >>>> list of strings that need translation, at least. Some of the >> strings >> > >>> may >> > >>>> be already translated in other components of Mailman, so you may be >> > >>> able to >> > >>>> get some translations to use to test if you have time at the end of >> > the >> > >>>> summer for internationalization. >> > >>>> >> > >>>> Terri >> > >>>> >> > >>>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> -- >> > >>> Bhargav Golla >> > >>> M.S Computer Science >> > >>> Github | >> > >>> LinkedIN >> > >>> | Website >> > >>> _______________________________________________ >> > >>> Mailman-Developers mailing list >> > >>> Mailman-Developers at python.org >> > >>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers >> > >>> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 >> > >>> Searchable Archives: >> > >>> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-developers%40python.org/ >> > >>> Unsubscribe: >> > >>> >> > >> https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-developers/rajeevs1992%40gmail.com >> > >>> >> > >>> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 >> > >>> >> > >> >> > >> >> > > >> > > >> > >> > -- >> > Abhilash Raj >> > >> > >> >> >> -- >> Bhargav Golla >> M.S Computer Science >> Github | >> LinkedIN >> | Website >> _______________________________________________ >> Mailman-Developers mailing list >> Mailman-Developers at python.org >> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers >> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 >> Searchable Archives: >> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-developers%40python.org/ >> Unsubscribe: >> https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-developers/rajeevs1992%40gmail.com >> >> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 >> > > -- Bhargav Golla M.S Computer Science Github | LinkedIN | Website From rajeevs1992 at gmail.com Wed Mar 5 16:25:29 2014 From: rajeevs1992 at gmail.com (Rajeev S) Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2014 20:55:29 +0530 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] [GSoC 2014] Cordova/Android App for GNU Mailman Admin Interface In-Reply-To: References: <5312CD26.7060204@toybox.ca> <53173316.9030608@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi, You will be asked for the create user prompt only the first time you run syncdb.That's why you don't see it now. Once the DB is created, only new tables, specified via django models, get added to DB during the syncdb. *Regards,Rajeev S* *Government Engineering College,Thrissur* *http://rajeevs.tk * On Wed, Mar 5, 2014 at 8:47 PM, Bhargav Golla wrote: > Hi Rajeev > > I wasn't asked if I wanted to create a super user when I executed python > manage.py syncdb. This was the output I got with syncdb: > Creating tables... > Installing Custome SQL... > Installing indexes... > Installed 0 object(s) from 0 fixture(s) > > I tried python manage.py createsuperuser and was able to login with > details I provided there. > > Thanks for your help. > > Regards > > > On Wed, Mar 5, 2014 at 10:00 AM, Rajeev S wrote: > >> Hi Bhargav, >> >> You will be asked whether to *add a superuser* during *syncdb*. If you >> answered no to that, do *python manage.py createsuperuser * and use that >> username and password to login. >> >> >> *Regards,Rajeev S* >> *Government Engineering College,Thrissur* >> *http://rajeevs.tk * >> >> >> On Wed, Mar 5, 2014 at 8:05 PM, Bhargav Golla wrote: >> >>> Hi Abhilash >>> >>> If you mean the last step of installation where we do cd >>> postorius_standalone;python manage.py syncdb, I wasn't asked for any >>> username/password. I checked the settings.py and it doesn't have any >>> specific default username/password. >>> >>> And the http://localhost:8001/3.0 worked for me. >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Mar 5, 2014 at 9:22 AM, Abhilash Raj >> >wrote: >>> >>> > Hi Bhargav, >>> > >>> > On Wednesday 05 March 2014 07:36 PM, Bhargav Golla wrote: >>> > > Thanks for that change Rajeev. I was able to get the Web UI up and >>> > running. >>> > > I was trying to find out the default Username and password for this >>> but >>> > was >>> > > unable to. When I was exploring docs in mailman.client and some >>> config >>> > > files in mailman, I found that the default username and password for >>> > admin >>> > > is restadmin and restpass. Tried that and was out of luck there too. >>> > Could >>> > > you help me with the default username and password details? >>> > >>> > While setting up Postorius(the web UI) when you do 'python manage.py >>> > syncdb' for the first time, it asks you to create admin. You can log in >>> > using those credentials. 'restadmin' and 'restpass' are the credentials >>> > for the mailman rest server. >>> > >>> > > Also, there is a using.txt doc in mailman.client which says we can >>> make >>> > the >>> > > REST requests by connecting to http://localhost:9001/3.0 using >>> username >>> > and >>> > > password. Should the URL be http://localhost:9000/3.0 for this >>> example >>> > or >>> > > would it be any different? >>> > >>> > AFAIK it is 'http://localhost:8001/3.0'. (Try it once. If I am wrong >>> > please someone correct me) >>> > >>> > > >>> > > Thanks >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > On Mon, Mar 3, 2014 at 1:38 PM, Rajeev S >>> wrote: >>> > > >>> > >> Hi Bhargav, >>> > >> >>> > >> Just do *mailman start*, without the bin. >>> > >> >>> > >> I have edited the wiki. >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> *Regards, Rajeev S* >>> > >> *Government Engineering College,Thrissur* >>> > >> *http://rajeevs.tk * >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> On Mon, Mar 3, 2014 at 10:37 PM, Bhargav Golla < >>> bgolla at g.clemson.edu >>> > >wrote: >>> > >> >>> > >>> Thanks Barry and Terri for your feedback. >>> > >>> I was trying to install Postorius locally and analyze what all >>> would be >>> > >>> required in a mobile app for Admin. Doing the same, I have hit a >>> > >>> roadblock. >>> > >>> I am using the wiki provided here[1]. I tried to install mailman >>> using >>> > >>> "set >>> > >>> up sources" part of the wiki. Though python setup.py install >>> executes >>> > >>> without any errors, I am unable to see the folder bin/ in the same >>> > >>> directory. So, even though I proceed with further setup, I am >>> getting a >>> > >>> "Mailman REST API not available. Please start mailman core" on my >>> > >>> localhost:8000 webpage. Could anyone help me here? >>> > >>> >>> > >>> [1] >>> > >>> >>> > >>> >>> > >>> http://wiki.list.org/display/DEV/A+5+minute+guide+to+get+the+Mailman+web+UI+running >>> > >>> >>> > >>> Thanks >>> > >>> >>> > >>> >>> > >>> On Sun, Mar 2, 2014 at 1:18 AM, Terri Oda wrote: >>> > >>> >>> > >>>> >>> > >>>> On 2014-02-28, 7:36 AM, Bhargav Golla wrote: >>> > >>>> >>> > >>>>> I have a few questions regarding this idea. >>> > >>>>> 1. I intend to develop it on Cordova since it will help in >>> porting >>> > the >>> > >>> app >>> > >>>>> easily to multiple platforms. Were there any ideas in this >>> directions >>> > >>>>> regarding going native or hybrid? >>> > >>>>> >>> > >>>> >>> > >>>> Personally, I'd prefer if we went hybrid and had an html5 webapp >>> that >>> > >>>> could be used straight over the web for mobile users who don't >>> want to >>> > >>>> install an app, with Cordova used to build the individual platform >>> > >>> apps. I >>> > >>>> may not be the mentor on this one, though, so I'm happy to defer >>> to >>> > >>> whoever >>> > >>>> the final mentor is on this front. >>> > >>>> >>> > >>>> Incidentally, I've been using Intel's XDK for building Cordova >>> apps >>> > >>> lately >>> > >>>> and highly recommend it for quick testing on various platforms and >>> > >>> screen >>> > >>>> sizes. I've found it a very useful tool, and not just because I >>> work >>> > >>> for >>> > >>>> Intel now! >>> > >>>> >>> > >>>> 2. Can I assume that all mailing lists built by Mailman support >>> the >>> > >>> REST >>> > >>>>> interface? Also, I have tried to see if I can get JSON responses >>> and >>> > I >>> > >>> am >>> > >>>>> unable to by adding a HTTP Accept Header to take >>> "application/json". >>> > >>> Am I >>> > >>>>> doing anything wrong or is JSON not implemented? >>> > >>>>> >>> > >>>> >>> > >>>> I don't know the answer to this off the top of my head: Barry? >>> > >>>> >>> > >>>> >>> > >>>> 3. As a starter, could I ignore internationalization for GSoC, >>> but >>> > >>>>> implement interface in such a way as to be able to >>> internationalize >>> > it >>> > >>>>> easily? >>> > >>>>> >>> > >>>> >>> > >>>> We don't expect you to actually translate anything, don't worry. >>> :) >>> > But >>> > >>>> you should definitely build as much as possible so that >>> > >>>> internationalization will be easy: make sure there's a quick way >>> to >>> > get >>> > >>> a >>> > >>>> list of strings that need translation, at least. Some of the >>> strings >>> > >>> may >>> > >>>> be already translated in other components of Mailman, so you may >>> be >>> > >>> able to >>> > >>>> get some translations to use to test if you have time at the end >>> of >>> > the >>> > >>>> summer for internationalization. >>> > >>>> >>> > >>>> Terri >>> > >>>> >>> > >>>> >>> > >>> >>> > >>> >>> > >>> -- >>> > >>> Bhargav Golla >>> > >>> M.S Computer Science >>> > >>> Github | >>> > >>> LinkedIN >>> > >>> | Website >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ >>> > >>> Mailman-Developers mailing list >>> > >>> Mailman-Developers at python.org >>> > >>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers >>> > >>> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 >>> > >>> Searchable Archives: >>> > >>> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-developers%40python.org/ >>> > >>> Unsubscribe: >>> > >>> >>> > >>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-developers/rajeevs1992%40gmail.com >>> > >>> >>> > >>> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 >>> > >>> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> > > >>> > > >>> > >>> > -- >>> > Abhilash Raj >>> > >>> > >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Bhargav Golla >>> M.S Computer Science >>> Github | >>> LinkedIN >>> | Website >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Mailman-Developers mailing list >>> Mailman-Developers at python.org >>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers >>> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 >>> Searchable Archives: >>> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-developers%40python.org/ >>> Unsubscribe: >>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-developers/rajeevs1992%40gmail.com >>> >>> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 >>> >> >> > > > -- > Bhargav Golla > M.S Computer Science > Github | LinkedIN > | Website > From bgolla at g.clemson.edu Wed Mar 5 16:32:01 2014 From: bgolla at g.clemson.edu (Bhargav Golla) Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2014 10:32:01 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] [GSoC 2014] Cordova/Android App for GNU Mailman Admin Interface In-Reply-To: References: <5312CD26.7060204@toybox.ca> <53173316.9030608@gmail.com> Message-ID: Thanks. I would have probably missed it out the first time. I will go through the web UI and also the documentation of REST API to understand what all functions need to be implemented in the admin interface for a user. Regards On Wed, Mar 5, 2014 at 10:25 AM, Rajeev S wrote: > Hi, > > You will be asked for the create user prompt only the first time you run > syncdb.That's why you don't see it now. > > Once the DB is created, only new tables, specified via django models, get > added to DB during the syncdb. > > > *Regards,Rajeev S* > *Government Engineering College,Thrissur* > *http://rajeevs.tk * > > > On Wed, Mar 5, 2014 at 8:47 PM, Bhargav Golla wrote: > >> Hi Rajeev >> >> I wasn't asked if I wanted to create a super user when I executed python >> manage.py syncdb. This was the output I got with syncdb: >> Creating tables... >> Installing Custome SQL... >> Installing indexes... >> Installed 0 object(s) from 0 fixture(s) >> >> I tried python manage.py createsuperuser and was able to login with >> details I provided there. >> >> Thanks for your help. >> >> Regards >> >> >> On Wed, Mar 5, 2014 at 10:00 AM, Rajeev S wrote: >> >>> Hi Bhargav, >>> >>> You will be asked whether to *add a superuser* during *syncdb*. If you >>> answered no to that, do *python manage.py createsuperuser * and use >>> that username and password to login. >>> >>> >>> *Regards,Rajeev S* >>> *Government Engineering College,Thrissur* >>> *http://rajeevs.tk * >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Mar 5, 2014 at 8:05 PM, Bhargav Golla wrote: >>> >>>> Hi Abhilash >>>> >>>> If you mean the last step of installation where we do cd >>>> postorius_standalone;python manage.py syncdb, I wasn't asked for any >>>> username/password. I checked the settings.py and it doesn't have any >>>> specific default username/password. >>>> >>>> And the http://localhost:8001/3.0 worked for me. >>>> >>>> >>>> On Wed, Mar 5, 2014 at 9:22 AM, Abhilash Raj >>> >wrote: >>>> >>>> > Hi Bhargav, >>>> > >>>> > On Wednesday 05 March 2014 07:36 PM, Bhargav Golla wrote: >>>> > > Thanks for that change Rajeev. I was able to get the Web UI up and >>>> > running. >>>> > > I was trying to find out the default Username and password for this >>>> but >>>> > was >>>> > > unable to. When I was exploring docs in mailman.client and some >>>> config >>>> > > files in mailman, I found that the default username and password for >>>> > admin >>>> > > is restadmin and restpass. Tried that and was out of luck there too. >>>> > Could >>>> > > you help me with the default username and password details? >>>> > >>>> > While setting up Postorius(the web UI) when you do 'python manage.py >>>> > syncdb' for the first time, it asks you to create admin. You can log >>>> in >>>> > using those credentials. 'restadmin' and 'restpass' are the >>>> credentials >>>> > for the mailman rest server. >>>> > >>>> > > Also, there is a using.txt doc in mailman.client which says we can >>>> make >>>> > the >>>> > > REST requests by connecting to http://localhost:9001/3.0 using >>>> username >>>> > and >>>> > > password. Should the URL be http://localhost:9000/3.0 for this >>>> example >>>> > or >>>> > > would it be any different? >>>> > >>>> > AFAIK it is 'http://localhost:8001/3.0'. (Try it once. If I am wrong >>>> > please someone correct me) >>>> > >>>> > > >>>> > > Thanks >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > On Mon, Mar 3, 2014 at 1:38 PM, Rajeev S >>>> wrote: >>>> > > >>>> > >> Hi Bhargav, >>>> > >> >>>> > >> Just do *mailman start*, without the bin. >>>> > >> >>>> > >> I have edited the wiki. >>>> > >> >>>> > >> >>>> > >> *Regards, Rajeev S* >>>> > >> *Government Engineering College,Thrissur* >>>> > >> *http://rajeevs.tk * >>>> > >> >>>> > >> >>>> > >> On Mon, Mar 3, 2014 at 10:37 PM, Bhargav Golla < >>>> bgolla at g.clemson.edu >>>> > >wrote: >>>> > >> >>>> > >>> Thanks Barry and Terri for your feedback. >>>> > >>> I was trying to install Postorius locally and analyze what all >>>> would be >>>> > >>> required in a mobile app for Admin. Doing the same, I have hit a >>>> > >>> roadblock. >>>> > >>> I am using the wiki provided here[1]. I tried to install mailman >>>> using >>>> > >>> "set >>>> > >>> up sources" part of the wiki. Though python setup.py install >>>> executes >>>> > >>> without any errors, I am unable to see the folder bin/ in the same >>>> > >>> directory. So, even though I proceed with further setup, I am >>>> getting a >>>> > >>> "Mailman REST API not available. Please start mailman core" on my >>>> > >>> localhost:8000 webpage. Could anyone help me here? >>>> > >>> >>>> > >>> [1] >>>> > >>> >>>> > >>> >>>> > >>>> http://wiki.list.org/display/DEV/A+5+minute+guide+to+get+the+Mailman+web+UI+running >>>> > >>> >>>> > >>> Thanks >>>> > >>> >>>> > >>> >>>> > >>> On Sun, Mar 2, 2014 at 1:18 AM, Terri Oda >>>> wrote: >>>> > >>> >>>> > >>>> >>>> > >>>> On 2014-02-28, 7:36 AM, Bhargav Golla wrote: >>>> > >>>> >>>> > >>>>> I have a few questions regarding this idea. >>>> > >>>>> 1. I intend to develop it on Cordova since it will help in >>>> porting >>>> > the >>>> > >>> app >>>> > >>>>> easily to multiple platforms. Were there any ideas in this >>>> directions >>>> > >>>>> regarding going native or hybrid? >>>> > >>>>> >>>> > >>>> >>>> > >>>> Personally, I'd prefer if we went hybrid and had an html5 webapp >>>> that >>>> > >>>> could be used straight over the web for mobile users who don't >>>> want to >>>> > >>>> install an app, with Cordova used to build the individual >>>> platform >>>> > >>> apps. I >>>> > >>>> may not be the mentor on this one, though, so I'm happy to defer >>>> to >>>> > >>> whoever >>>> > >>>> the final mentor is on this front. >>>> > >>>> >>>> > >>>> Incidentally, I've been using Intel's XDK for building Cordova >>>> apps >>>> > >>> lately >>>> > >>>> and highly recommend it for quick testing on various platforms >>>> and >>>> > >>> screen >>>> > >>>> sizes. I've found it a very useful tool, and not just because I >>>> work >>>> > >>> for >>>> > >>>> Intel now! >>>> > >>>> >>>> > >>>> 2. Can I assume that all mailing lists built by Mailman support >>>> the >>>> > >>> REST >>>> > >>>>> interface? Also, I have tried to see if I can get JSON >>>> responses and >>>> > I >>>> > >>> am >>>> > >>>>> unable to by adding a HTTP Accept Header to take >>>> "application/json". >>>> > >>> Am I >>>> > >>>>> doing anything wrong or is JSON not implemented? >>>> > >>>>> >>>> > >>>> >>>> > >>>> I don't know the answer to this off the top of my head: Barry? >>>> > >>>> >>>> > >>>> >>>> > >>>> 3. As a starter, could I ignore internationalization for GSoC, >>>> but >>>> > >>>>> implement interface in such a way as to be able to >>>> internationalize >>>> > it >>>> > >>>>> easily? >>>> > >>>>> >>>> > >>>> >>>> > >>>> We don't expect you to actually translate anything, don't worry. >>>> :) >>>> > But >>>> > >>>> you should definitely build as much as possible so that >>>> > >>>> internationalization will be easy: make sure there's a quick way >>>> to >>>> > get >>>> > >>> a >>>> > >>>> list of strings that need translation, at least. Some of the >>>> strings >>>> > >>> may >>>> > >>>> be already translated in other components of Mailman, so you may >>>> be >>>> > >>> able to >>>> > >>>> get some translations to use to test if you have time at the end >>>> of >>>> > the >>>> > >>>> summer for internationalization. >>>> > >>>> >>>> > >>>> Terri >>>> > >>>> >>>> > >>>> >>>> > >>> >>>> > >>> >>>> > >>> -- >>>> > >>> Bhargav Golla >>>> > >>> M.S Computer Science >>>> > >>> Github | >>>> > >>> LinkedIN >>>> > >>> | Website >>>> > >>> _______________________________________________ >>>> > >>> Mailman-Developers mailing list >>>> > >>> Mailman-Developers at python.org >>>> > >>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers >>>> > >>> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 >>>> > >>> Searchable Archives: >>>> > >>> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-developers%40python.org/ >>>> > >>> Unsubscribe: >>>> > >>> >>>> > >>>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-developers/rajeevs1992%40gmail.com >>>> > >>> >>>> > >>> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 >>>> > >>> >>>> > >> >>>> > >> >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > >>>> > -- >>>> > Abhilash Raj >>>> > >>>> > >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Bhargav Golla >>>> M.S Computer Science >>>> Github | >>>> LinkedIN >>>> | Website >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Mailman-Developers mailing list >>>> Mailman-Developers at python.org >>>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers >>>> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 >>>> Searchable Archives: >>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-developers%40python.org/ >>>> Unsubscribe: >>>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-developers/rajeevs1992%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 >>>> >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> Bhargav Golla >> M.S Computer Science >> Github | LinkedIN >> | Website >> > > -- Bhargav Golla M.S Computer Science Github | LinkedIN | Website From rajeevs1992 at gmail.com Wed Mar 5 17:17:40 2014 From: rajeevs1992 at gmail.com (Rajeev S) Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2014 21:47:40 +0530 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] [GSoC 2014] Command line Client In-Reply-To: <5316F76A.9070204@gmail.com> References: <531461F7.6070404@gmail.com> <87y50qqomy.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <5316F76A.9070204@gmail.com> Message-ID: Thanks Florian. Things are much more clearer now. I have built a basic command line version for the mailman.client, that will currently print the domain list and mailing list lists. This is, as Steve mentioned, like the git interface You can find it here https://github.com/rajeevs1992/mailman-cli/blob/master/client *Usage:* To list the registered domains in your server, do - ./client domain --list To list the registered mailing lists in your server, do - ./client list --list For help with options available, do - ./client -h *Regards,Rajeev S* *Government Engineering College,Thrissur* *http://rajeevs.tk * On Wed, Mar 5, 2014 at 3:37 PM, Florian Fuchs wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > > > On 03/04/2014 10:49 AM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: > > Rajeev S writes: > >> Also, I did not quite get the "*coming up with a **great layout > >> *" part. Do you mean to build a custom shell for mailman? If yes, > >> what extra functionality should it provide than the standard > >> command line tools? > > > > I think that probably is what he means, but I personally don't > > think that's appropriate. If people want a "CLI with layout" > > (which I agree is plausible), what's wrong with Postorius via Lynx? > > (Florian?) > > No, that's not what I meant (using the term "layout" was obviously > confusing - sorry for that!). I think we're talking about two > possible, but very different concepts of a client here: > > One is the one-off command (with options) that outputs a result, > either on stdout or saved to a file. This could make for an > interesting project, but I think then it would really make more sense > (like Steve said) to extend the existing `mailman` command instead of > writing a new one. > > The other (and the one I had in mind) is a tool you invoke with a > commando which then offers a interface a little different from that of > your standard terminal shell (bash or else). Just like you invoke the > mysql/sqlite3 client (with a db name or file as option). What I meant > by "layout" is really the question what happens after one starts the > tool by typing something like `$ mmclient --list=foo at bar.id`" or `$ > mmclient --domain=python.org`", not the actual visual representation. > > > Does that make more sense? > > Florian > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.12 (GNU/Linux) > Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ > > iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJTFvdqAAoJEEceGbPdavl76KIIAKLIsZEux/TPCSNV9sEQGJt1 > s5gkIT298wZPPQfG+b2kllMO9o6uObQ0K10Ynk4yzLi1YngTyR1kC52Ty6uZ1pws > YvD87o7DCeoZWDMss77+zvJkpkG+zFn4Ts3taeWW/9A1N9fJP22izgtm9aki+RLn > 8nWn4jfTmnE3TvU8ptr/5uK0LPApfjMZz0mGCc6jgExdsJhVw11LU0Wzoxtw9424 > 1ygW2zWPcvdHTqykluvf62u24oTna641vNxE60LB9e4SF6LhS0Pi+F/w+m8zjNAT > q3xY76yNlhZVI/N2cR4jinuUbagX61DSu7mgC4Kk08oyN6TgkS9kknlYrGupQ3c= > =ufWT > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > From stephen at xemacs.org Thu Mar 6 07:59:16 2014 From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull) Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2014 15:59:16 +0900 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] [GSoC 2014] Command line Client In-Reply-To: <5316F76A.9070204@gmail.com> References: <531461F7.6070404@gmail.com> <87y50qqomy.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <5316F76A.9070204@gmail.com> Message-ID: <87zjl3q0cb.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> Florian Fuchs writes: > One is the one-off command (with options) that outputs a result, > either on stdout or saved to a file. This could make for an > interesting project, but I think then it would really make more sense > (like Steve said) to extend the existing `mailman` command instead of > writing a new one. Ah, I see. I think that what you're talking about, then, is deciding how much state to keep in configuration of the client, how much to require the user to enter, and whether to save state changes made during an interactive session. For "stateless" commands like "status" (it reports the state, but issuing it is the same regardless of current state), or simple state- dependence (a "list lists on domain" command might be "mmclient list lists domain=python.org) you could do it as a shell command. For more complicated, state-dependent commands: $ mmclient mm> status all qrunners running mm> set domain python.org mm> set list mailman-users mm> list members from list.org barry at list.org mm> ;-) Then set of questions might be "should mmclient automatically save the settings for 'domain' and 'list'? Or should there be a 'save current settings' command? Or a special 'configure settings' command? Or should the user edit mmclient.ini?" Is that the kind of thing you mean by layout? From varunsharmalive at gmail.com Thu Mar 6 11:30:41 2014 From: varunsharmalive at gmail.com (varun sharma) Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2014 16:00:41 +0530 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Gsoc idea discussions : Continuous integration tool In-Reply-To: <8738iys6s3.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> References: <53144BD6.5010807@gmail.com> <8738iys6s3.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> Message-ID: Can i use buildbot for the server part and integrate it with frontend suite ? I tested buildbot on postorius by deploying it on aws and the tests that do not require selenium webdriver are working fine. varun sharma writes: > > Why would you use Django to build the tool as opposed to "just" a > > python package? > I was thinking of expanding it like buildbot to include django > based GUI and detailed reports. So i thought we can use django, but > if we just want a command line tool, then python module will be > fine. Why not do both? I think that you should be able to separate the "business logic" from the UI elements. Then use the "if __name__ == '__main__':" technique to implement the CLI, and import the module into the optional Django front end. From tom.browder at gmail.com Thu Mar 6 16:57:06 2014 From: tom.browder at gmail.com (Tom Browder) Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2014 10:57:06 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] MM 3 and Postfix + Apache Message-ID: Can I use essentially the same settings I used for Postfix and Apache for my MM 2 installation with MM 3? Thanks, -Tom From p at sys4.de Thu Mar 6 17:24:11 2014 From: p at sys4.de (Patrick Ben Koetter) Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2014 17:24:11 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] MM 3 and Postfix + Apache In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20140306162411.GM3884@sys4.de> * Tom Browder : > Can I use essentially the same settings I used for Postfix and Apache > for my MM 2 installation with MM 3? No, you can't. MM3 provides an LMTP Server. Configure a transport that routes messages for a mailing list to MM3's LMTP server. p at rick > > Thanks, > > -Tom > _______________________________________________ > Mailman-Developers mailing list > Mailman-Developers at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers > Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 > Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-developers%40python.org/ > Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-developers/p%40sys4.de > > Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 -- [*] sys4 AG https://sys4.de, +49 (89) 30 90 46 64 Franziskanerstra?e 15, 81669 M?nchen Sitz der Gesellschaft: M?nchen, Amtsgericht M?nchen: HRB 199263 Vorstand: Patrick Ben Koetter, Marc Schiffbauer Aufsichtsratsvorsitzender: Florian Kirstein From barry at list.org Thu Mar 6 17:07:05 2014 From: barry at list.org (Barry Warsaw) Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2014 11:07:05 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] MM 3 and Postfix + Apache In-Reply-To: <20140306162411.GM3884@sys4.de> References: <20140306162411.GM3884@sys4.de> Message-ID: <20140306110705.21832e82@anarchist.wooz.org> On Mar 06, 2014, at 05:24 PM, Patrick Ben Koetter wrote: >* Tom Browder : >> Can I use essentially the same settings I used for Postfix and Apache >> for my MM 2 installation with MM 3? > >No, you can't. MM3 provides an LMTP Server. Configure a transport that routes >messages for a mailing list to MM3's LMTP server. BTW Tom, are you trying to run MM2 and MM3 concurrently? I'd like that to be a supported deployment use case, but haven't had much time to try it myself. If you do, please let us know what you find. -Barry From stephen at xemacs.org Thu Mar 6 19:36:13 2014 From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull) Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2014 03:36:13 +0900 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] MM 3 and Postfix + Apache In-Reply-To: <20140306110705.21832e82@anarchist.wooz.org> References: <20140306162411.GM3884@sys4.de> <20140306110705.21832e82@anarchist.wooz.org> Message-ID: <87iorrp42q.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> Barry Warsaw writes: > BTW Tom, are you trying to run MM2 and MM3 concurrently? I'd like > that to be a supported deployment use case, but haven't had much > time to try it myself. I do this already, but with Exim4 as MTA. It's not hard. Of course if both installations have lists of the same name (including the domain part) one installation has to shadow the other for those lists. (I guess it would be possible to configure Exim routers list-by-list so that you can choose which takes precedence on a per-list basis, but it sounds like asking for trouble to me, and I haven't tried it.) From tom.browder at gmail.com Thu Mar 6 20:59:08 2014 From: tom.browder at gmail.com (Tom Browder) Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2014 14:59:08 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] MM 3 and Postfix + Apache In-Reply-To: <87iorrp42q.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> References: <20140306162411.GM3884@sys4.de> <20140306110705.21832e82@anarchist.wooz.org> <87iorrp42q.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> Message-ID: On Thu, Mar 6, 2014 at 1:36 PM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: > Barry Warsaw writes: > > BTW Tom, are you trying to run MM2 and MM3 concurrently? I'd like > I do this already, but with Exim4 as MTA. It's not hard. Of course > if both installations have lists of the same name (including the There will not be any identical names, so maybe doable fairly easily with Postfix? Thanks, Stephen, -Tom From stephen at xemacs.org Fri Mar 7 02:07:27 2014 From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull) Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2014 10:07:27 +0900 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] MM 3 and Postfix + Apache In-Reply-To: References: <20140306162411.GM3884@sys4.de> <20140306110705.21832e82@anarchist.wooz.org> <87iorrp42q.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> Message-ID: <87ha7aq0j4.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> Tom Browder writes: > On Thu, Mar 6, 2014 at 1:36 PM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: > > Barry Warsaw writes: > > > BTW Tom, are you trying to run MM2 and MM3 concurrently? I'd like > > I do this already, but with Exim4 as MTA. It's not hard. Of course > > if both installations have lists of the same name (including the > > There will not be any identical names, so maybe doable fairly easily > with Postfix? Yeah, I suppose so. I don't recall how Postfix does the dispatching. Exim basically has a chain of what it calls "routers", which look at the message and metadata (the envelope addressee's mailbox is what I use), apply other tests (checking for the list's config pickle is what I use, but it would be possible to query a database or even call out to the Mailman3 REST API -- probably a bad idea, since if Mailman is down, the router will fail, but possible), and dispatch the message to a transport for delivery (piping to the Mailman program). Routers are "first full match wins", so it's quite easy to understand the logic. In particular, a "one host, multiple Mailman installations" setup requires just one router per Mailman installation. The router's check for a file system object is what disambiguates the installations. Usually Postfix is configured to route mail with a set of sendmail- like aliases files, so you just define different alias files for each Mailman installation and configure Postfix to look at them with the alias_database directive in postfix/main.cf. I guess Mailman itself can be used to generate them without much trouble. What I can't help with on Postfix, and something I suspect Barry will be concerned with, is virtual domains where dom1 prefers the tried and true (Mailman2) and dom2 is ready to try something new (Mailman3). In Exim this is no harder; the routers just check for the virtual domain as well as the mailbox and config files. I don't know how Postfix would handle this; the alias files only know about mailboxes as far as I know. The virtual domains are sorted out by a different mechanism. Regards, Steve From stephen at xemacs.org Fri Mar 7 02:44:57 2014 From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull) Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2014 10:44:57 +0900 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Gsoc idea discussions : Continuous integration tool In-Reply-To: References: <53144BD6.5010807@gmail.com> <8738iys6s3.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> Message-ID: <87fvmupysm.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> varun sharma writes: > Can i use buildbot for the server part and integrate it with > frontend suite ? This is way too compact to understand what you're proposing. If you mean "configure a buildbot to build and test Mailman 3", and that's it, no. This is Google Summer of *Code*, and you have to write a substantial piece of code. If we can't figure out what you're proposing, your proposal will not be adopted, no matter how much we want the feature. Please read http://turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp/Blog/SPAM.txt for some hints on how the proposal process works. Most of this is not yet applicable to your proposal, it's more about the completed proposal. But it will give you an idea of where you need to be headed. At this stage, you need to be clear about the *requirements* you propose to satisfy, so that we can evaluate your proposed *design*. These can be very rough (the sentence quoted above is about half of what you need for design *at this stage*; the other half is an explanation of what the "frontend suite" is and how they will be connected). But "Continuous integration tool" is not even close to specifying requirements. What is your tool going to do? Your full proposal will need to be more detailed -- we need to be able to estimate how much code you need to write, which means a fair amount of detail about the requirements, at least. We need a couple of intermediate milestones, so that we can evaluate your progress at midterm. We expect to be working with you over the next couple of weeks to refine your proposal. (Occasionally students deliver a full proposal out of the blue, but that's very rare.) > I tested buildbot on postorius Again, I have no idea what you're trying to say here. Postorius is not a platform for running buildbot. What does this mean? From varunsharmalive at gmail.com Fri Mar 7 06:27:10 2014 From: varunsharmalive at gmail.com (varun sharma) Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2014 10:57:10 +0530 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Gsoc idea discussions : Continuous integration tool In-Reply-To: <87fvmupysm.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> References: <53144BD6.5010807@gmail.com> <8738iys6s3.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <87fvmupysm.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> Message-ID: On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 7:14 AM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: > varun sharma writes: > > > Can i use buildbot for the server part and integrate it with > > frontend suite ? > > This is way too compact to understand what you're proposing. If you > mean "configure a buildbot to build and test Mailman 3", and that's > it, no. This is Google Summer of *Code*, and you have to write a > substantial piece of code. > > If we can't figure out what you're proposing, your proposal will not > be adopted, no matter how much we want the feature. Please read > > http://turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp/Blog/SPAM.txt > > for some hints on how the proposal process works. Most of this is not > yet applicable to your proposal, it's more about the completed > proposal. But it will give you an idea of where you need to be headed. > > At this stage, you need to be clear about the *requirements* you > propose to satisfy, so that we can evaluate your proposed *design*. > These can be very rough (the sentence quoted above is about half of > what you need for design *at this stage*; the other half is an > explanation of what the "frontend suite" is and how they will be > connected). But "Continuous integration tool" is not even close to > specifying requirements. What is your tool going to do? > > Your full proposal will need to be more detailed -- we need to be able > to estimate how much code you need to write, which means a fair amount > of detail about the requirements, at least. We need a couple of > intermediate milestones, so that we can evaluate your progress at > midterm. We expect to be working with you over the next couple of > weeks to refine your proposal. (Occasionally students deliver a full > proposal out of the blue, but that's very rare.) > Sorry, if i wasn't clear enough but from frontend suite i meant the command line interface that is going to check for the integrity before the commit (i.e mm_gatekeeper on developer's machine). I was trying to say that: Is it possible if i write the command line interface myself by adding all the unit tests for all the projects to be involved in the integration suite and let buildbot handle the build testing part ? The work that i am expecting to do in this project is: 1. Write a python module mm_gatekeeper that will handle all the integration tests for all the projects involved in the mailman suite on the developer machine before commit. 2. Forking buildbot for adding build testing from the repository and tweaking the buildbot code to meet our requirements. So, this will be a combination of both the functionalities that we were discussing (local + repo). > > > I tested buildbot on postorius > > Again, I have no idea what you're trying to say here. Postorius is > not a platform for running buildbot. What does this mean? > > I deployed buildbot with aws ec2 on postorius independently by adding repo of postorius_standalone at http://dev.sharmalabs.com:8010 and added the commands that are required to run the unit tests. From stephen at xemacs.org Fri Mar 7 17:40:39 2014 From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull) Date: Sat, 08 Mar 2014 01:40:39 +0900 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Gsoc idea discussions : Continuous integration tool In-Reply-To: References: <53144BD6.5010807@gmail.com> <8738iys6s3.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <87fvmupysm.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> Message-ID: <8761nqotbs.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> varun sharma writes: > On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 7:14 AM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: [ long irrelevant quote snipped -- please trim! If you really can't trim because you're using a handheld in a crowded bus on a very bumpy road, please *top* post, but make sure your text includes enough context -- readers should not have to dig through a long quote to find the exact text you are responding to. ] > Sorry, if i wasn't clear enough but from frontend suite i meant the command > line interface that is going to check for the integrity before the commit > (i.e mm_gatekeeper on developer's machine). OK. Why is this a CLI (command line interface)? Does it need to be controlled by hand? Isn't this going to be some sort of daemon triggered by commits to the trunk (or other "watched" branch)? Below you write "python module" -- if that's what you mean, it's a better way to express it. > I was trying to say that: Is it possible if i write the command > line interface myself by adding all the unit tests for all the > projects to be involved in the integration suite and let buildbot > handle the build testing part ? Yes. This is not only permissible, it's good design, and very desirable. > The work that i am expecting to do in this project is: > 1. Write a python module mm_gatekeeper that will handle all the integration > tests for all the projects involved in the mailman suite on the developer > machine before commit. OK. I'm not sure what you mean by "integration tests". Also, as I understand it, usually "continuous integration" does not refer to "integration of components with each other", but instead it means "integration of new code into the public repository". Ie, although testing is part of it, it's really a workflow manager, not a test framework. If you're interested in integration testing of the components, that is not a problem, we can use that. But we should straighten out our terminology so everybody is expecting the same project. > 2. Forking buildbot for adding build testing from the repository and > tweaking the buildbot code to meet our requirements. Do this only if necessary, I think. We can discuss when you get to actual coding, of course. But 1. buildbot should be pretty flexible, enough to handle this task. 2. If you only need a little bit more, it might be better to "wrap" buildbot with extra capability rather than "change" it. 3. If you do need to change it, we will definitely ask that you try to get upstream to add the additional capabilities. > I deployed buildbot with aws ec2 on postorius independently by adding repo > of postorius_standalone at http://dev.sharmalabs.com:8010 and > added the commands that are required to run the unit tests. OK, that looks pretty cool. I suggest you add the URL for your code repo to http://dev.sharmalabs.com:8010/about. All of your Internet facing sites should have an "about" or "home" page with links to all of the others. Do you have a blog? Sorry if you have already posted all that information. Remember that we have a lot of students, most of us participate in multiple lists which are currently swamped with GSoC students, and some of us mentor for more than one org (or are org admins, which also takes up a lot of time and energy -- thank you Terri!). Please humor us if we ask for your information more than once. From barry at list.org Fri Mar 7 23:06:32 2014 From: barry at list.org (Barry Warsaw) Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2014 17:06:32 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] MM 3 and Postfix + Apache In-Reply-To: <87ha7aq0j4.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> References: <20140306162411.GM3884@sys4.de> <20140306110705.21832e82@anarchist.wooz.org> <87iorrp42q.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <87ha7aq0j4.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> Message-ID: <20140307170632.39dd9efc@anarchist.wooz.org> On Mar 07, 2014, at 10:07 AM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: >Usually Postfix is configured to route mail with a set of sendmail- >like aliases files, so you just define different alias files for each >Mailman installation and configure Postfix to look at them with the >alias_database directive in postfix/main.cf. I guess Mailman itself >can be used to generate them without much trouble. > >What I can't help with on Postfix, and something I suspect Barry will >be concerned with, is virtual domains where dom1 prefers the tried and >true (Mailman2) and dom2 is ready to try something new (Mailman3). In >Exim this is no harder; the routers just check for the virtual domain >as well as the mailbox and config files. I don't know how Postfix >would handle this; the alias files only know about mailboxes as far as >I know. The virtual domains are sorted out by a different mechanism. From src/mailman/docs/MTA.rst, we set these Postfix variables: transport_maps = hash:/path-to-mailman/var/data/postfix_lmtp local_recipient_maps = hash:/path-to-mailman/var/data/postfix_lmtp relay_domains = hash:/path-to-mailman/var/data/postfix_domains and then mm3 writes those files and postmaps them to keep them current. The thing that I haven't checked is if you have some mm2 lists that obviously would not be defined in the above files, does Postfix fall back to delivering the messages to mm2's mail command? -Barry From raj.abhilash1 at gmail.com Sat Mar 8 07:44:40 2014 From: raj.abhilash1 at gmail.com (Abhilash Raj) Date: Sat, 08 Mar 2014 12:14:40 +0530 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Git mirror for mailman Message-ID: <531ABC58.6030203@gmail.com> Hi all, I was in a conversation with Barry yesterday to setup a unofficial git mirror for mailman since there are large number of people who use git as their primary vcs. I think it would encourage more people to contribute to mailman, if not through merge requests on lp, through small patches making of which is quite trivial in git I suppose. I am willing to maintain the mirror but I need I don't have a private server to host it. Anyone has ideas about how to setup? or already has a mirror running? Thanks, Abhilash -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 880 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From pabs3 at bonedaddy.net Sat Mar 8 08:01:53 2014 From: pabs3 at bonedaddy.net (Paul Wise) Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2014 15:01:53 +0800 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Git mirror for mailman In-Reply-To: <531ABC58.6030203@gmail.com> References: <531ABC58.6030203@gmail.com> Message-ID: git itself has git-remote-bzr that works well so I don't think this is needed, git users can just checkout direct from bzr to git. The only issue I can find with it is that push to launchpad doesn't appear to work right now. https://bugs.debian.org/714038 -- bye, pabs http://bonedaddy.net/pabs3/ From p at sys4.de Sat Mar 8 08:07:17 2014 From: p at sys4.de (Patrick Ben Koetter) Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2014 08:07:17 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Git mirror for mailman In-Reply-To: <531ABC58.6030203@gmail.com> References: <531ABC58.6030203@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20140308070717.GA17473@sys4.de> * Abhilash Raj : > Hi all, > > I was in a conversation with Barry yesterday to setup a unofficial git > mirror for mailman since there are large number of people who use git as > their primary vcs. I think it would encourage more people to contribute > to mailman, if not through merge requests on lp, through small patches > making of which is quite trivial in git I suppose. > > I am willing to maintain the mirror but I need I don't have a private > server to host it. Anyone has ideas about how to setup? or already has a > mirror running? How about this: Pulling should be easy: git clone https://src.sys4.de/python/mailman.git Who will be the maintainer? That/these persons need an account and should contact me so I can give them access. p at rick P.S. If you like something else let me know. I can destroy the project space easily. -- [*] sys4 AG https://sys4.de, +49 (89) 30 90 46 64 Franziskanerstra?e 15, 81669 M?nchen Sitz der Gesellschaft: M?nchen, Amtsgericht M?nchen: HRB 199263 Vorstand: Patrick Ben Koetter, Marc Schiffbauer Aufsichtsratsvorsitzender: Florian Kirstein From raj.abhilash1 at gmail.com Sat Mar 8 11:16:07 2014 From: raj.abhilash1 at gmail.com (Abhilash Raj) Date: Sat, 08 Mar 2014 15:46:07 +0530 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Git mirror for mailman In-Reply-To: <20140308070717.GA17473@sys4.de> References: <531ABC58.6030203@gmail.com> <20140308070717.GA17473@sys4.de> Message-ID: <531AEDE7.9030103@gmail.com> Hi Patrick, On Saturday 08 March 2014 12:37 PM, Patrick Ben Koetter wrote: > * Abhilash Raj : >> Hi all, >> >> I was in a conversation with Barry yesterday to setup a unofficial git >> mirror for mailman since there are large number of people who use git as >> their primary vcs. I think it would encourage more people to contribute >> to mailman, if not through merge requests on lp, through small patches >> making of which is quite trivial in git I suppose. >> >> I am willing to maintain the mirror but I need I don't have a private >> server to host it. Anyone has ideas about how to setup? or already has a >> mirror running? > > How about this: > > > > Pulling should be easy: > > git clone https://src.sys4.de/python/mailman.git Thanks for this. > Who will be the maintainer? That/these persons need an account and should > contact me so I can give them access. I am willing to be a maintainer. Also can you tell me how to maintain I haven't maintained a project like this before? Does a cron job needs to setup to pull periodically? > p at rick > > P.S. > If you like something else let me know. I can destroy the project space > easily. > Thanks, Abhilash Raj -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 880 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From p at sys4.de Sat Mar 8 13:33:18 2014 From: p at sys4.de (Patrick Ben Koetter) Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2014 13:33:18 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Git mirror for mailman In-Reply-To: <531AEDE7.9030103@gmail.com> References: <531ABC58.6030203@gmail.com> <20140308070717.GA17473@sys4.de> <531AEDE7.9030103@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20140308123318.GB23944@sys4.de> Hi, * Abhilash Raj : > Hi Patrick, excuse my ignorance: Is Raj your first name or Abhilash? > On Saturday 08 March 2014 12:37 PM, Patrick Ben Koetter wrote: > > * Abhilash Raj : > >> Hi all, > >> > >> I was in a conversation with Barry yesterday to setup a unofficial git > >> mirror for mailman since there are large number of people who use git as > >> their primary vcs. I think it would encourage more people to contribute > >> to mailman, if not through merge requests on lp, through small patches > >> making of which is quite trivial in git I suppose. > >> > >> I am willing to maintain the mirror but I need I don't have a private > >> server to host it. Anyone has ideas about how to setup? or already has a > >> mirror running? > > > > How about this: > > > > > > > > Pulling should be easy: > > > > git clone https://src.sys4.de/python/mailman.git > > Thanks for this. > > > Who will be the maintainer? That/these persons need an account and should > > contact me so I can give them access. > > I am willing to be a maintainer. Also can you tell me how to maintain I > haven't maintained a project like this before? Does a cron job needs to > setup to pull periodically? I will create an account for you and I will send the login data to you offlist. Do you PGP or anything alike? As for the workflow: Wars have been waged to etablish the right way [tm] to do this. I suggest whatever we do, make it easy to adopt or people will turn away because they need to spend too much work on project administration. The mailman repo is public. Anyone can pull a copy from it. If they want to contribute code/docs/..., they have to submit a merge request at . Then its up to one of the developers to look at the new code and then to decide whether it should be merged or not. It's up to a developer or any more privileged role to conduct the actual merge. As for pulling: To my knowledge it is best practise to pull before you begin your work. Of course one should create a branch and work in that, so the code won't interfere with other changes, while you work on it. p at rick -- [*] sys4 AG https://sys4.de, +49 (89) 30 90 46 64 Franziskanerstra?e 15, 81669 M?nchen Sitz der Gesellschaft: M?nchen, Amtsgericht M?nchen: HRB 199263 Vorstand: Patrick Ben Koetter, Marc Schiffbauer Aufsichtsratsvorsitzender: Florian Kirstein From raj.abhilash1 at gmail.com Sat Mar 8 13:53:19 2014 From: raj.abhilash1 at gmail.com (Abhilash Raj) Date: Sat, 08 Mar 2014 18:23:19 +0530 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Git mirror for mailman In-Reply-To: <20140308123318.GB23944@sys4.de> References: <531ABC58.6030203@gmail.com> <20140308070717.GA17473@sys4.de> <531AEDE7.9030103@gmail.com> <20140308123318.GB23944@sys4.de> Message-ID: <531B12BF.8030908@gmail.com> Hey, On Saturday 08 March 2014 06:03 PM, Patrick Ben Koetter wrote: > Hi, > > * Abhilash Raj : >> Hi Patrick, > > excuse my ignorance: Is Raj your first name or Abhilash? My First name is Abhilash. >> On Saturday 08 March 2014 12:37 PM, Patrick Ben Koetter wrote: >>> * Abhilash Raj : >>>> Hi all, >>>> >>>> I was in a conversation with Barry yesterday to setup a unofficial git >>>> mirror for mailman since there are large number of people who use git as >>>> their primary vcs. I think it would encourage more people to contribute >>>> to mailman, if not through merge requests on lp, through small patches >>>> making of which is quite trivial in git I suppose. >>>> >>>> I am willing to maintain the mirror but I need I don't have a private >>>> server to host it. Anyone has ideas about how to setup? or already has a >>>> mirror running? >>> >>> How about this: >>> >>> >>> >>> Pulling should be easy: >>> >>> git clone https://src.sys4.de/python/mailman.git >> >> Thanks for this. >> >>> Who will be the maintainer? That/these persons need an account and should >>> contact me so I can give them access. >> >> I am willing to be a maintainer. Also can you tell me how to maintain I >> haven't maintained a project like this before? Does a cron job needs to >> setup to pull periodically? > > I will create an account for you and I will send the login data to you > offlist. Do you PGP or anything alike? I will send you my public key to you offlist. So I will have to pull from main repo and push manually? or can we setup a cron job to do that work? > As for the workflow: Wars have been waged to etablish the right way [tm] to > do this. I suggest whatever we do, make it easy to adopt or people will turn > away because they need to spend too much work on project administration. > > The mailman repo is public. Anyone can pull a copy from it. If they want to > contribute code/docs/..., they have to submit a merge request at > . > > Then its up to one of the developers to look at the new code and then to > decide whether it should be merged or not. It's up to a developer or any more > privileged role to conduct the actual merge. > > As for pulling: To my knowledge it is best practise to pull before you begin > your work. Of course one should create a branch and work in that, so the code > won't interfere with other changes, while you work on it. > > p at rick > thanks, Abhilash Raj -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 880 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From p at sys4.de Sat Mar 8 21:00:23 2014 From: p at sys4.de (Patrick Ben Koetter) Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2014 21:00:23 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Git mirror for mailman In-Reply-To: <531ABC58.6030203@gmail.com> References: <531ABC58.6030203@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20140308200023.GB31712@sys4.de> * Abhilash Raj : > I was in a conversation with Barry yesterday to setup a unofficial git > mirror for mailman since there are large number of people who use git as > their primary vcs. I think it would encourage more people to contribute > to mailman, if not through merge requests on lp, through small patches > making of which is quite trivial in git I suppose. Seems we have an inofficial git repo now. Are there any opinions on who should be in control of the code, e.g. handle merge requests, etc.? AFAIK Barry has the last word on what gets to become Mailman 3 at the moment. I'd like to move on with the repo setup and clarify that. Thx p at rick -- [*] sys4 AG https://sys4.de, +49 (89) 30 90 46 64 Franziskanerstra?e 15, 81669 M?nchen Sitz der Gesellschaft: M?nchen, Amtsgericht M?nchen: HRB 199263 Vorstand: Patrick Ben Koetter, Marc Schiffbauer Aufsichtsratsvorsitzender: Florian Kirstein From adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk Sat Mar 8 21:27:39 2014 From: adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk (Adam McGreggor) Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2014 20:27:39 +0000 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Git mirror for mailman In-Reply-To: <531ABC58.6030203@gmail.com> References: <531ABC58.6030203@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20140308202739.GF10820@hendricks.amyl.org.uk> On Sat, Mar 08, 2014 at 12:14:40PM +0530, Abhilash Raj wrote: > I was in a conversation with Barry yesterday to setup a unofficial git > mirror for mailman since there are large number of people who use git as > their primary vcs. +1. This is a good step to get involvement. > I am willing to maintain the mirror but I need I don't have a private > server to host it. Anyone has ideas about how to setup? or already has a > mirror running? Why not just use GitHub, like many other projects do? It encourages social coding, and provides a good UI for non-geeks to interact. -- "I never make predictions. I never have, and I never will." -- Tony Blair From barry at list.org Sun Mar 9 04:05:41 2014 From: barry at list.org (Barry Warsaw) Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2014 22:05:41 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Git mirror for mailman In-Reply-To: <531ABC58.6030203@gmail.com> References: <531ABC58.6030203@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20140308220541.57d773db@limelight.wooz.org> On Mar 08, 2014, at 12:14 PM, Abhilash Raj wrote: >I was in a conversation with Barry yesterday to setup a unofficial git >mirror for mailman since there are large number of people who use git as >their primary vcs. Let me just state my official position for Mailman core: we'll switch to git some day, but not just yet. Git has won this round of dvcs wars, so it's inevitable that we'll switch. I'd like not to do that right now though, given that I think it will be a distraction for Pycon, GSoC, and 3.0. Switching the dvcs is not just a matter of importing branches and tags - there are workflow issues to suss out. It'll also be interesting to see how ESR's reposurgeon work ends up handling Emacs's switch from bzr to git. Let's let the state of things shake out a little more before switching the official branch. I'm all for unofficial mirrors though, if it helps others contribute to Mailman. Please feel free to experiment! I would still prefer to get merge proposals and/or patches through Launchpad though. As nice as Github is, we can't use it because Mailman is a GNU project and Github is not free software. There are other free software options for git code hosting, including self-hosting or moving to savannah.gnu.org. I'd still keep the bug tracker on Launchpad, as I still think it's superior. Cheers, -Barry -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 819 bytes Desc: not available URL: From barry at list.org Sun Mar 9 04:08:03 2014 From: barry at list.org (Barry Warsaw) Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2014 22:08:03 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Git mirror for mailman In-Reply-To: <20140308200023.GB31712@sys4.de> References: <531ABC58.6030203@gmail.com> <20140308200023.GB31712@sys4.de> Message-ID: <20140308220803.55c134ed@limelight.wooz.org> On Mar 08, 2014, at 09:00 PM, Patrick Ben Koetter wrote: >Seems we have an inofficial git repo now. Are there any opinions on who should >be in control of the code, e.g. handle merge requests, etc.? AFAIK Barry has >the last word on what gets to become Mailman 3 at the moment. I'd like to move >on with the repo setup and clarify that. I would prefer if the git repo is a pure mirror of the official bzr branch. As code gets pushed to lp:mailman, it would be nice if the git repo simply pulled in the new revisions. For now, just using 'master' should be enough; I don't think we need to pull lp:mailman/2.1 into that repo. -Barry From brickgao at gmail.com Sat Mar 8 18:32:58 2014 From: brickgao at gmail.com (Xiongzhi Gao) Date: Sun, 9 Mar 2014 01:32:58 +0800 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] [GSoC]Some questions about `Mailman command line client` Message-ID: Hello all, I am Xiongzhi Gao, a student from Wuhan University in China. This is the first time I participate in GSoC. I study Information Security in the university. I like to use Python and Node.js to develope some small tools and web project. You can found some projects in my Github account[1]. And I have a great interest in the idea of `Mailman command line client`. I have some questions about it: 1. I found there is a moudle named `Commands` in the sources of the Mailman. I gave it a quick reading and found there has been some basic operation of the Mailman. Is the goal of this project making the extension for `Commands` moudle? 2. What is the version of Python I could use in this project? I saw the Mailman is working torward supporting Python 3. And could I use python-future to make the code work in both Python2 and Python3? 3. I saw one of the goals of this project is to create backups. I think only store the backups in users' computer is not safe. Could I develope a feature to use some file hosting services(like Dropbox) to sync the backups automatically when users create backups? Thanks:) [1]https://github.com/brickgao Yours truly, Xiongzhi Gao From upman16 at gmail.com Sat Mar 8 20:42:50 2014 From: upman16 at gmail.com (Ravi Kumar) Date: Sun, 9 Mar 2014 01:12:50 +0530 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] GSoC 2014 - Porting hyperkitty to Python 3.x info Message-ID: Hello everyone, I'm Ravi Kumar, an undergrad Computer Science and Engineering student based in Bangalore. I'm familiar with Source code management with git and comfortable with Python, Ruby and C. I'm familiar with django and the MVC approach, although I haven't made any real contributions to open-source projects. So this is all the more exciting to me. I see GSoC as a very good opportunity to learn and also give something back to the community. I was going through the Ideas page and was interested in porting Hyperkitty and Postorius on to python 3.x and I had a bunch of questions. 1. Are there any constraints the community places on the strategy that is to be adopted to port the apps or is are the strategies up to the person submitting the proposal? 2. What versions of django should the ports be compatible across? 3. How reliable and thorough are the unit tests that are in place? 4. Should the ports be polyglots supporting Python 2.6-3.x or just support python 3.3? Since mailman plans to support only Python 3.x in the future? Thanks, Ravi Kumar From barry at list.org Sun Mar 9 04:10:21 2014 From: barry at list.org (Barry Warsaw) Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2014 22:10:21 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Git mirror for mailman In-Reply-To: <20140308123318.GB23944@sys4.de> References: <531ABC58.6030203@gmail.com> <20140308070717.GA17473@sys4.de> <531AEDE7.9030103@gmail.com> <20140308123318.GB23944@sys4.de> Message-ID: <20140308221021.264c2c1e@limelight.wooz.org> On Mar 08, 2014, at 01:33 PM, Patrick Ben Koetter wrote: >As for the workflow: Wars have been waged to etablish the right way [tm] to >do this. I suggest whatever we do, make it easy to adopt or people will turn >away because they need to spend too much work on project administration. See my previous email. I would prefer if this mirror were read-only. I don't think an administrator is actually necessary as the repo should not accept pull requests. It only needs to occasionally re-sync with the Bazaar repository on Launchpad. Cheers, -Barry From barry at list.org Sun Mar 9 04:11:27 2014 From: barry at list.org (Barry Warsaw) Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2014 22:11:27 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Git mirror for mailman In-Reply-To: References: <531ABC58.6030203@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20140308221127.34aa65e2@limelight.wooz.org> On Mar 08, 2014, at 03:01 PM, Paul Wise wrote: >https://bugs.debian.org/714038 Subscribed! -Barry From brickgao at gmail.com Mon Mar 10 06:40:40 2014 From: brickgao at gmail.com (Xiongzhi Gao) Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2014 13:40:40 +0800 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] [GSoC]Some questions about `Mailman command line client` In-Reply-To: <531C53FC.2050307@gmail.com> References: <531C53FC.2050307@gmail.com> Message-ID: Thanks for your reply. I just installed the Mailman3 on my PC and checked list archives. I found there is a discuss of `layout`, I think there are two kinds of `layout` available for this CLI tools. One of `layout` is like shell, the other just like git, the tools can make multi-methods and have multi-options can save config in some place, just like: mailman-CLI passwd -c 'sample at sample.com` mailman-CLI list -a 'sample at sample.com' and there can be some config in '~/.mailman-CLI/config', such as Email address and other preference. What do you mean by 'not safe'? I don't think it is the requirement of > the project to sync backups to any 3rd party services. Backing up the > backups should be the user's problem. For the third question I ask, I have a new idea, I think maybe a hook for each operation is more flexible for user and make CLI tools more extensibility. And is it necessary to make some code to prove I can do this project :) ? Regards, Xiongzhi Gao, Computer School of Wuhan University Github: https://github.com/brickgao Blog: http://blog.brickgao.com From varunsharmalive at gmail.com Mon Mar 10 08:38:59 2014 From: varunsharmalive at gmail.com (varun sharma) Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2014 13:08:59 +0530 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Gsoc idea discussions : Continuous integration tool In-Reply-To: <8761nqotbs.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> References: <53144BD6.5010807@gmail.com> <8738iys6s3.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <87fvmupysm.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <8761nqotbs.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> Message-ID: On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 10:10 PM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: > > OK. Why is this a CLI (command line interface)? Does it need to be > controlled by hand? Isn't this going to be some sort of daemon > triggered by commits to the trunk (or other "watched" branch)? Below > you write "python module" -- if that's what you mean, it's a better > way to express it. > Yes, i meant the executing the python module using command line interface. :) > > > Also, as I understand it, usually "continuous integration" does not > refer to "integration of components with each other", but instead it > means "integration of new code into the public repository". Ie, > although testing is part of it, it's really a workflow manager, not a > test framework. Actually my idea is to import all the unit tests from the projects involved in the suite and write new tests as well if required, so that we can check both "integration of new code" and "integration of components with each other". Selectively combining unit tests of different projects will do the job of workflow manager ? > > > Do you have a blog? > > Yes, i do :) (http://www.sharmalabs.com).Right now i don't post actively on it but I'll be posting weekly gsoc summaries there if i got selected. :) From stephen at xemacs.org Mon Mar 10 13:19:30 2014 From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull) Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2014 21:19:30 +0900 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Gsoc idea discussions : Continuous integration tool In-Reply-To: References: <53144BD6.5010807@gmail.com> <8738iys6s3.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <87fvmupysm.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <8761nqotbs.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> Message-ID: <87mwgynt4d.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> varun sharma writes: > Actually my idea is to import all the unit tests from the projects > involved in the suite and write new tests as well if required, so > that we can check both "integration of new code" and "integration > of components with each other". Selectively combining unit tests of > different projects will do the job of workflow manager ? No. "Workflow" is the process by which the project develops new code, and includes handling user requests, assembling requirements and specifications, designing features and fixes, implementing them in code, testing, reviewing, approving, pushing to the mainline repository, and releasing. The order above, when implemented over the whole release cycle, corresponds pretty closely to the infamous "waterfall" workflow, but most open source projects don't follow that. "Integration" generally refers to some subset of the testing, reviewing, approving, and pushing steps. It pretty much always includes the testing and pushing steps, because those are the sore point. Even when a developer is conscientious about testing before pushing, there is a big problem because in the time that you're testing, somebody else will push, and you have to pull and retest. Note that "more test failures" is not an issue, *somebody* will have a test failure if it's going to happen. It's the time spent testing if there *isn't* going to be a failure -- most of the time -- that we'd like to avoid. So "continuous integration" is a process that automatically queues merge requests, tests them, and pushes to mainline until a merge fails tests. At that point, the requested merge is rejected and the responsible developer needs to deal with it, but the integration process goes on to the next changeset in hopes that that one won't fail. That doesn't mean you have to *do* what I've defined as "continuous integration", just that continuous integration is a bigger job than just "buildbot for three projects at once". Just the buildbot project would be very useful. One warning: Google is very serious about *code*. Simply configuring a buildbot or three isn't going to qualify, you need to write substantial additional code. > > Do you have a blog? > > > > Yes, i do :) (http://www.sharmalabs.com).Right now i don't post actively > on it but I'll be posting weekly gsoc summaries there if i got selected. > :) Up to you, but starting now is helpful to your chances.... From bgolla at g.clemson.edu Mon Mar 10 14:23:42 2014 From: bgolla at g.clemson.edu (Bhargav Golla) Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2014 09:23:42 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] [GSoC 2014] Cordova/Android App for GNU Mailman Admin Interface In-Reply-To: References: <5312CD26.7060204@toybox.ca> <53173316.9030608@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hello I have gone through the Admin interface and all functions that can be achieved with the REST API. I intend to have a login screen where a user can enter URL for the REST API endpoint, REST Username and password. We will use this to subsequent authenticate all requests made to fetch subscribers list, domains list, etc. I was wondering if I could get some feedback on this. I will start writing my proposal based on this starting point and list out what all I would features I would be implementing during the period of GSoC. Regards On Wed, Mar 5, 2014 at 10:32 AM, Bhargav Golla wrote: > Thanks. I would have probably missed it out the first time. I will go > through the web UI and also the documentation of REST API to understand > what all functions need to be implemented in the admin interface for a user. > > Regards > > > On Wed, Mar 5, 2014 at 10:25 AM, Rajeev S wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> You will be asked for the create user prompt only the first time you run >> syncdb.That's why you don't see it now. >> >> Once the DB is created, only new tables, specified via django models, get >> added to DB during the syncdb. >> >> >> *Regards,Rajeev S* >> *Government Engineering College,Thrissur* >> *http://rajeevs.tk * >> >> >> On Wed, Mar 5, 2014 at 8:47 PM, Bhargav Golla wrote: >> >>> Hi Rajeev >>> >>> I wasn't asked if I wanted to create a super user when I executed python >>> manage.py syncdb. This was the output I got with syncdb: >>> Creating tables... >>> Installing Custome SQL... >>> Installing indexes... >>> Installed 0 object(s) from 0 fixture(s) >>> >>> I tried python manage.py createsuperuser and was able to login with >>> details I provided there. >>> >>> Thanks for your help. >>> >>> Regards >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Mar 5, 2014 at 10:00 AM, Rajeev S wrote: >>> >>>> Hi Bhargav, >>>> >>>> You will be asked whether to *add a superuser* during *syncdb*. If you >>>> answered no to that, do *python manage.py createsuperuser * and use >>>> that username and password to login. >>>> >>>> >>>> *Regards,Rajeev S* >>>> *Government Engineering College,Thrissur* >>>> *http://rajeevs.tk * >>>> >>>> >>>> On Wed, Mar 5, 2014 at 8:05 PM, Bhargav Golla wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hi Abhilash >>>>> >>>>> If you mean the last step of installation where we do cd >>>>> postorius_standalone;python manage.py syncdb, I wasn't asked for any >>>>> username/password. I checked the settings.py and it doesn't have any >>>>> specific default username/password. >>>>> >>>>> And the http://localhost:8001/3.0 worked for me. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Wed, Mar 5, 2014 at 9:22 AM, Abhilash Raj >>>> >wrote: >>>>> >>>>> > Hi Bhargav, >>>>> > >>>>> > On Wednesday 05 March 2014 07:36 PM, Bhargav Golla wrote: >>>>> > > Thanks for that change Rajeev. I was able to get the Web UI up and >>>>> > running. >>>>> > > I was trying to find out the default Username and password for >>>>> this but >>>>> > was >>>>> > > unable to. When I was exploring docs in mailman.client and some >>>>> config >>>>> > > files in mailman, I found that the default username and password >>>>> for >>>>> > admin >>>>> > > is restadmin and restpass. Tried that and was out of luck there >>>>> too. >>>>> > Could >>>>> > > you help me with the default username and password details? >>>>> > >>>>> > While setting up Postorius(the web UI) when you do 'python manage.py >>>>> > syncdb' for the first time, it asks you to create admin. You can log >>>>> in >>>>> > using those credentials. 'restadmin' and 'restpass' are the >>>>> credentials >>>>> > for the mailman rest server. >>>>> > >>>>> > > Also, there is a using.txt doc in mailman.client which says we can >>>>> make >>>>> > the >>>>> > > REST requests by connecting to http://localhost:9001/3.0 using >>>>> username >>>>> > and >>>>> > > password. Should the URL be http://localhost:9000/3.0 for this >>>>> example >>>>> > or >>>>> > > would it be any different? >>>>> > >>>>> > AFAIK it is 'http://localhost:8001/3.0'. (Try it once. If I am wrong >>>>> > please someone correct me) >>>>> > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > Thanks >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > On Mon, Mar 3, 2014 at 1:38 PM, Rajeev S >>>>> wrote: >>>>> > > >>>>> > >> Hi Bhargav, >>>>> > >> >>>>> > >> Just do *mailman start*, without the bin. >>>>> > >> >>>>> > >> I have edited the wiki. >>>>> > >> >>>>> > >> >>>>> > >> *Regards, Rajeev S* >>>>> > >> *Government Engineering College,Thrissur* >>>>> > >> *http://rajeevs.tk * >>>>> > >> >>>>> > >> >>>>> > >> On Mon, Mar 3, 2014 at 10:37 PM, Bhargav Golla < >>>>> bgolla at g.clemson.edu >>>>> > >wrote: >>>>> > >> >>>>> > >>> Thanks Barry and Terri for your feedback. >>>>> > >>> I was trying to install Postorius locally and analyze what all >>>>> would be >>>>> > >>> required in a mobile app for Admin. Doing the same, I have hit a >>>>> > >>> roadblock. >>>>> > >>> I am using the wiki provided here[1]. I tried to install mailman >>>>> using >>>>> > >>> "set >>>>> > >>> up sources" part of the wiki. Though python setup.py install >>>>> executes >>>>> > >>> without any errors, I am unable to see the folder bin/ in the >>>>> same >>>>> > >>> directory. So, even though I proceed with further setup, I am >>>>> getting a >>>>> > >>> "Mailman REST API not available. Please start mailman core" on my >>>>> > >>> localhost:8000 webpage. Could anyone help me here? >>>>> > >>> >>>>> > >>> [1] >>>>> > >>> >>>>> > >>> >>>>> > >>>>> http://wiki.list.org/display/DEV/A+5+minute+guide+to+get+the+Mailman+web+UI+running >>>>> > >>> >>>>> > >>> Thanks >>>>> > >>> >>>>> > >>> >>>>> > >>> On Sun, Mar 2, 2014 at 1:18 AM, Terri Oda >>>>> wrote: >>>>> > >>> >>>>> > >>>> >>>>> > >>>> On 2014-02-28, 7:36 AM, Bhargav Golla wrote: >>>>> > >>>> >>>>> > >>>>> I have a few questions regarding this idea. >>>>> > >>>>> 1. I intend to develop it on Cordova since it will help in >>>>> porting >>>>> > the >>>>> > >>> app >>>>> > >>>>> easily to multiple platforms. Were there any ideas in this >>>>> directions >>>>> > >>>>> regarding going native or hybrid? >>>>> > >>>>> >>>>> > >>>> >>>>> > >>>> Personally, I'd prefer if we went hybrid and had an html5 >>>>> webapp that >>>>> > >>>> could be used straight over the web for mobile users who don't >>>>> want to >>>>> > >>>> install an app, with Cordova used to build the individual >>>>> platform >>>>> > >>> apps. I >>>>> > >>>> may not be the mentor on this one, though, so I'm happy to >>>>> defer to >>>>> > >>> whoever >>>>> > >>>> the final mentor is on this front. >>>>> > >>>> >>>>> > >>>> Incidentally, I've been using Intel's XDK for building Cordova >>>>> apps >>>>> > >>> lately >>>>> > >>>> and highly recommend it for quick testing on various platforms >>>>> and >>>>> > >>> screen >>>>> > >>>> sizes. I've found it a very useful tool, and not just because >>>>> I work >>>>> > >>> for >>>>> > >>>> Intel now! >>>>> > >>>> >>>>> > >>>> 2. Can I assume that all mailing lists built by Mailman >>>>> support the >>>>> > >>> REST >>>>> > >>>>> interface? Also, I have tried to see if I can get JSON >>>>> responses and >>>>> > I >>>>> > >>> am >>>>> > >>>>> unable to by adding a HTTP Accept Header to take >>>>> "application/json". >>>>> > >>> Am I >>>>> > >>>>> doing anything wrong or is JSON not implemented? >>>>> > >>>>> >>>>> > >>>> >>>>> > >>>> I don't know the answer to this off the top of my head: Barry? >>>>> > >>>> >>>>> > >>>> >>>>> > >>>> 3. As a starter, could I ignore internationalization for GSoC, >>>>> but >>>>> > >>>>> implement interface in such a way as to be able to >>>>> internationalize >>>>> > it >>>>> > >>>>> easily? >>>>> > >>>>> >>>>> > >>>> >>>>> > >>>> We don't expect you to actually translate anything, don't >>>>> worry. :) >>>>> > But >>>>> > >>>> you should definitely build as much as possible so that >>>>> > >>>> internationalization will be easy: make sure there's a quick >>>>> way to >>>>> > get >>>>> > >>> a >>>>> > >>>> list of strings that need translation, at least. Some of the >>>>> strings >>>>> > >>> may >>>>> > >>>> be already translated in other components of Mailman, so you >>>>> may be >>>>> > >>> able to >>>>> > >>>> get some translations to use to test if you have time at the >>>>> end of >>>>> > the >>>>> > >>>> summer for internationalization. >>>>> > >>>> >>>>> > >>>> Terri >>>>> > >>>> >>>>> > >>>> >>>>> > >>> >>>>> > >>> >>>>> > >>> -- >>>>> > >>> Bhargav Golla >>>>> > >>> M.S Computer Science >>>>> > >>> Github | >>>>> > >>> LinkedIN >>>>> > >>> | Website >>>>> > >>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> > >>> Mailman-Developers mailing list >>>>> > >>> Mailman-Developers at python.org >>>>> > >>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers >>>>> > >>> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 >>>>> > >>> Searchable Archives: >>>>> > >>> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-developers%40python.org/ >>>>> > >>> Unsubscribe: >>>>> > >>> >>>>> > >>>>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-developers/rajeevs1992%40gmail.com >>>>> > >>> >>>>> > >>> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 >>>>> > >>> >>>>> > >> >>>>> > >> >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > >>>>> > -- >>>>> > Abhilash Raj >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Bhargav Golla >>>>> M.S Computer Science >>>>> Github | >>>>> LinkedIN >>>>> | Website >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Mailman-Developers mailing list >>>>> Mailman-Developers at python.org >>>>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers >>>>> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 >>>>> Searchable Archives: >>>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-developers%40python.org/ >>>>> Unsubscribe: >>>>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-developers/rajeevs1992%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Bhargav Golla >>> M.S Computer Science >>> Github | LinkedIN >>> | Website >>> >> >> > > > -- > Bhargav Golla > M.S Computer Science > Github | LinkedIN > | Website > -- Bhargav Golla M.S Computer Science Github | LinkedIN | Website From stephen at xemacs.org Tue Mar 11 04:55:54 2014 From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull) Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2014 12:55:54 +0900 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Getting mentor attention [was: Mailman SNMP support] In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <87k3c1o0c5.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> Nitin Agarwal writes: > Here its Nitin Agarwal, an open source Software developer and > enthusiast. Hi, pleased to meet you. I'm belatedly replying to the list, and at length, as there are other students in your situation. I hope it helps. First off, I saw you talked to Terri on IRC. Much as I hate to burden Terri, that is the right thing to do if you're not getting attention to your proposal, especially from persons who proposed or volunteered to mentor it. If at all possible, try to grab GSoC people on IRC (or by email) in the following order: 1. Any other mentor or active developer, to get comments first. 2. Barry. 3. Terri or Florian. 4. Jessica (real last resort). Contact info for the above is on the "Ideas" page. Barry isn't official in GSoC, but he's head of the Mailman project and a ranking demi-god in the Pytheon. Also crazy busy, so you may get a polite brushoff. OTOH, he can probably solve Mailman problems in half the time of anybody else. And if Barry asks for help, someone will respond. Terri and Florian are PSF org admins, not just Mailman IIUC. Crazy busy, too, but dealing with problems is their job as org admin. As org admins, to some extent they can knock heads. You don't really want that, except as a last resort. Jessica is PSF org admin, with no specific interest in Mailman. A really last resort, because it implies Terri and Florian are asleep at the wheel. N.B. They all *like* talking to people when they've got time. Don't be *afraid* to talk to them. But it's better to spread yourself around (or as the Japanese say, develop a wide face) and get to know more people in the project, especially at the start. > I am looking forward to contribute to Mailman in the upcoming > Google Summer of Code 2014 through the Mailman SNMP Support Project > idea. I have an experience with the open source software > development and tools used. This is a "good enough" short self-introduction. However, it doesn't shine. It's like providing a numerical answer on a math test, without showing your work. (Boy do I hate it when students do that....) Specifying languages (and implementations), maybe applications and libraries, related to the project that you have worked with, or especially "on", polishes the image. Mention projects (an URL to your github page is just another numerical answer -- tell us about your work!) But keep it short (yes, I know it's difficult to do both). Image is important -- we mentors are all human, bright shiny things attract our attention. That's part of why we need org admins -- not everybody has image skills[1], so somebody has to go looking for and polishing up those diamonds in the the rough. But you can better your chances by not depending on the org admins to get attention for your proposal -- do it yourself. > I have an indepth knowledge of SNMP protocol and an understanding > of the concepts specified in the SNMP RFC 1157. Although I'm willing to co-mentor this project, when you first posted I was able to expand "SNMP" but that was the extent of my knowledge. (Standards geeking is one of the things I'm good at, I'm pretty sure I can catch up. :-) I had no clue about why Mailman would want it or who requested it or who would mentor it. So I didn't respond. The two "whos" are our bad (they should be on the "Ideas" page, partly remedied now). But it's important that *you* explain *why* you chose that feature. It's OK to just say "it's in my toolkit" (and do be honest about your motivations -- mentoring is a "trust" relationship). But, again, your proposal shines when you tell us why *we* (or our users) want it. So you (or any student) can greatly improve your chances of getting someone to engage by telling us "why" we want it. You do that by focusing on the *user requirements* rather than on the *design and implementation* ("use this protocol" is design; "use this library" is low-level design, aka a plan for implementation). Everybody on this list is a Mailman *user* (broadly defined as list members, list admins of several flavors, and site admins), but not all are *developers*. If you can get some users saying "hey, *I* could *really* use that feature," it's more attractive to the developers and mentors (and we always have more desirable features than slots). But remember, users often don't know the buzzwords like SNMP (or even SMTP, and RFC numbers are quite arbitrary). Concretely, what are the benefits to subscribers and/or admins? Tell stories about situations where this feature would help. Describe how it would operate (from the user's viewpoint, not the protocol itself). N.B. This advice isn't universal. In some projects, mentors are core developers who are looking for someone "just like them", who knows the protocol and just wants to dive in and implement a pre-specified feature. (That's typical for compiler optimizations, for example.) But I think it's pretty good advice for Mailman at the present time. ***** About this specific project, my initial reaction was "we *have* an NMP" (usually called "the REST interface"). Why do we need another network management protocol, even if it's "simple"? Remember, "there should be one-- and preferably only one --obvious way to do it" is a fundamental principle of design for Python developers.[2] What does SNMP do for us that the REST interface doesn't? Pop quiz (relevant to that last question): What statement in Sec. 1.3 of RFC 3411 immediately caught my eye? Hint: which letter in "FCAPS" caught my eye? (To readers not interested in implementing SNMP in Mailman as a GSoC intern: *don't* answer on-list!! This quiz is for prospective interns on the SNMP project!) Why are they interesting? Do you propose to replace the RESTful interface, or to have two interfaces? (This question is not a quiz, it's a research question -- quite possibly you may finish your project and still not have a fully satisfactory answer to that.) Another question: RFC 1157 is labelled "historic". It's been obsoleted several times. I realize that the current set of related RFCs counts at least 5 (what's "simple" about that?!), but ISTM there are important reasons why we really want the modern versions. Are you familiar with the important changes in goals for the newer RFCs? Footnotes: [1] Note that "English is my second language" is not an excuse. Every post I've seen so far is perfectly understandable, and nobody needs to be ashamed of their English. The issue is that working on Mailman at the present time requires understanding user requirements, so do the best you can to tell stories about your project that end with users living happily ever after! Yes, I know, second languages cost. I work in a second language that is easily the most difficult ever invented -- Japanese. But (unless you're very fortunate in finding a mentor who speaks your language), you will have to get over that, so I discount the cost -- you've already decided to pay it. [2] If you're not familiar with these programming proverbs, type "python -m this". From terri at toybox.ca Tue Mar 11 07:04:25 2014 From: terri at toybox.ca (Terri Oda) Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2014 23:04:25 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Getting mentor attention [was: Mailman SNMP support] In-Reply-To: <87k3c1o0c5.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> References: <87k3c1o0c5.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> Message-ID: <531EA769.20207@toybox.ca> On 2014-03-10, 8:55 PM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: > First off, I saw you talked to Terri on IRC. Much as I hate to burden > Terri, that is the right thing to do if you're not getting attention > to your proposal, especially from persons who proposed or volunteered > to mentor it. If at all possible, try to grab GSoC people on IRC (or > by email) in the following order: It is always ok to contact me! Anyone, anytime! The only thing I ask is that if I tell you to contact someone else, you actually do that and have at least one meaningful conversation with them before coming back to me. As Stephen says, I can be pretty swamped, so when I redirect students to someone else, usually it's because I think they will be more helpful than I can be at that time. I don't want to be a bottleneck for a student or mentor who's stuck on a problem and waiting for me, so I do my best to refer you to the best person I can! Just a quick correction on the list of people that Stephen posted: The PSF GSoC Org admins are me, Florian and Meflin. - I'm the one who makes final decisions about sub-orgs, slots, etc. and oversees everything. - Florian, on top of helping me as org admin (particularly with the blogs), is the person in charge of Mailman's GSoC team. - Meflin is running our IRC channel (#python-gsoc on freenode). If you have a question about GSoC or melange he's often the one to ask, and he tries to be available on IRC as much as possible for quick questions. While he's new to our team this year, he's a very experienced GSoC org admin who I asked to join us this year to take some of the load off me and Florian. * Jessica is *not* a PSF org admin this year, but she *is* on the PSF board. If this were structured like a company, she'd be my boss. That said, she is even more swamped than I am with Core Python (I think she's running OPW in parallel with GSoC right now), so there is basically no time mailman students should be talking to her. If for any reason I am not responding as an org admin, you should talk to Meflin, who as the person in the closest time zone and same country, it's much easier for him to reach me out of band. Terri From aurelien at bompard.org Tue Mar 11 15:28:29 2014 From: aurelien at bompard.org (Aurelien Bompard) Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2014 11:28:29 -0300 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] URLs in notification messages Message-ID: Hey there! I have a question about emails generated by Mailman3. This is an example of a "message held" notification ("your message awaits moderator approval"). According to the template, Mailman inserts a cancel link at the end of the email: If you would like to cancel this posting, please visit the following URL: https://example.com/confirm/test at example.com/longhash I wonder where this link is supposed to lead. I did not find such an endpoint in Postorius, and the Mailman REST API is not public anyway. Am I missing something? Thanks! Aur?lien From barry at list.org Tue Mar 11 16:01:58 2014 From: barry at list.org (Barry Warsaw) Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2014 11:01:58 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] URLs in notification messages In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20140311110158.40b05474@limelight.wooz.org> On Mar 11, 2014, at 11:28 AM, Aurelien Bompard wrote: >I wonder where this link is supposed to lead. I did not find such an >endpoint in Postorius, and the Mailman REST API is not public anyway. >Am I missing something? Not really - you've noticed a holdover from Mailman 2.1 that hasn't been completely ported to the new architecture. I have an unfinished branch that tries to fix this. The basic problem is this: with the separation of web ui and core, the core can't actually know a priori what those links will be, or even if there *are* links. So in my branch I actually remove all those links from the default templates and rewrite as necessary to describe the email workflow. Then, I add some configuration variables so that a system admin can specify urls at which to download the appropriate templates. This arrangement is similar to the welcome message configurations, which allow you to specify how the core will retrieve the appropriate message based on the mailing list *and* language (this location supports a number of url schemes, including the obvious http/https, but also file: and internal reference schemes for finding templates in-tree). Once a template is downloaded, it's cached. This allows the site admin to design whatever template they want, for any list or language, and the core will use it as needed. A set of interpolation variables are defined so you can fill in various placeholders. Postorius ultimately should ship with a number of default templates and we can provide an example configuration file for using those default Postorius templates. As I mentioned, this branch isn't yet complete, but I am still working on it. Cheers, -Barry From aurelien at bompard.org Tue Mar 11 16:58:19 2014 From: aurelien at bompard.org (Aurelien Bompard) Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2014 12:58:19 -0300 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] URLs in notification messages In-Reply-To: <20140311110158.40b05474@limelight.wooz.org> References: <20140311110158.40b05474@limelight.wooz.org> Message-ID: OK, thanks for the explanation Barry A. From aurelien at bompard.org Tue Mar 11 22:25:16 2014 From: aurelien at bompard.org (Aurelien Bompard) Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2014 18:25:16 -0300 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Moderation rules priority Message-ID: Hey! I'd like to discuss what happens when an email is sent by both a member and a nonmember in Mailman3. How is that possible? Very easy, here's my use case : I have my own domain, say example.com, and for convenience and portability I choose to use Gmail as a server/storage/interface. My main adress is alice at example.com and I redirect it to alice at gmail.com, while I set a default identity in gmail to alice at example.com which will set the proper From header. However, for spam detection and spoofing reasons, gmail adds a Sender header with alice at gmail.com. My outgoing emails thus have both a From and a Sender header, and in this case email clients only display the >From header (except Outlook, but eh...) Mailman now: when I subscribe to a list, I use my regular address, alice at example.com. But the message.senders property will contain both addresses because of the Sender header. The email goes through the MemberModeration rule, which finds my subscribed address and, by default, associates the "defer" action. The email then goes through the NonMemberModeration rule, which finds my Gmail address and sets the action to "hold" (it ignores my main address because it's a member already). What do you think about all that? Do you agree there's actually an issue there? Any idea how to solve it? For example, make the NonMember rule exit if a member is found amongst the senders (which would simply be equivalent to making it yield to the Member rule). Bad idea? Aur?lien From barry at list.org Tue Mar 11 23:14:29 2014 From: barry at list.org (Barry Warsaw) Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2014 18:14:29 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Moderation rules priority In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20140311181429.29e7f690@anarchist.wooz.org> On Mar 11, 2014, at 06:25 PM, Aurelien Bompard wrote: >What do you think about all that? Do you agree there's actually an >issue there? Any idea how to solve it? For example, make the NonMember >rule exit if a member is found amongst the senders (which would simply >be equivalent to making it yield to the Member rule). Bad idea? Ah, an interesting case! My immediate reaction is that nonmember-moderation should do exactly what you suggest: test for both membership and nonmembership. If it's both, then return False as if the action were Action.defer. This should allow the member-moderation rule to take precedence. Can you think of a reason *not* to do this? -Barry From mark at msapiro.net Tue Mar 11 23:44:31 2014 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2014 15:44:31 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Moderation rules priority In-Reply-To: <20140311181429.29e7f690@anarchist.wooz.org> References: <20140311181429.29e7f690@anarchist.wooz.org> Message-ID: <531F91CF.9000507@msapiro.net> On 03/11/2014 03:14 PM, Barry Warsaw wrote: > On Mar 11, 2014, at 06:25 PM, Aurelien Bompard wrote: > >> What do you think about all that? Do you agree there's actually an >> issue there? Any idea how to solve it? For example, make the NonMember >> rule exit if a member is found amongst the senders (which would simply >> be equivalent to making it yield to the Member rule). Bad idea? > > Ah, an interesting case! My immediate reaction is that nonmember-moderation > should do exactly what you suggest: test for both membership and > nonmembership. If it's both, then return False as if the action were > Action.defer. This should allow the member-moderation rule to take > precedence. > > Can you think of a reason *not* to do this? I think that's the right thing to do. In 2.1, a single module does both. Addresses are tested from headers in a defined order, and the first member address found determines the action. Only if no member address is found, are non-member tests done. I'm not sure about the architecture of the chain of rules, but maybe the member-moderation rule could set a flag in the metadata to tell the nonmember-moderation rule to take no action rather than testing for membership, but this might be a bad idea as it would make the rules order sensitive. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From stephen at xemacs.org Wed Mar 12 04:55:01 2014 From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull) Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2014 12:55:01 +0900 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] URLs in notification messages In-Reply-To: <20140311110158.40b05474@limelight.wooz.org> References: <20140311110158.40b05474@limelight.wooz.org> Message-ID: <877g80nka2.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> Barry Warsaw writes: > The basic problem is this: with the separation of web ui and core, the core > can't actually know a priori what those links will be, or even if there *are* > links. So in my branch I actually remove all those links from the default > templates and rewrite as necessary to describe the email workflow. This sound like a job for Super NMP. :-) From stephen at xemacs.org Wed Mar 12 05:43:50 2014 From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull) Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2014 13:43:50 +0900 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Moderation rules priority In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8761nkni0p.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> Aurelien Bompard writes: > I'd like to discuss what happens when an email is sent by both a > member and a nonmember in Mailman3. How is that possible? Very easy, > here's my use case : I have my own domain, say example.com, and for > convenience and portability I choose to use Gmail as a > server/storage/interface. My main adress is alice at example.com and I > redirect it to alice at gmail.com, while I set a default identity in > gmail to alice at example.com which will set the proper From header. > However, for spam detection and spoofing reasons, gmail adds a Sender > header with alice at gmail.com. My outgoing emails thus have both a From > and a Sender header, and in this case email clients only display the > >From header (except Outlook, but eh...) Your outgoing emails also have an envelope sender, which might be different from both of the above. > Mailman now: when I subscribe to a list, I use my regular address, > alice at example.com. But the message.senders property will contain both > addresses because of the Sender header. The email goes through the > MemberModeration rule, which finds my subscribed address and, by > default, associates the "defer" action. > The email then goes through the NonMemberModeration rule, which finds > my Gmail address and sets the action to "hold" (it ignores my main > address because it's a member already). > > What do you think about all that? Do you agree there's actually an > issue there? Yes. > Any idea how to solve it? For example, make the NonMember rule exit > if a member is found amongst the senders (which would simply be > equivalent to making it yield to the Member rule). Bad idea? Offhand I'd say that having both a Member rule and a NonMember rule is a bad idea. There should be one conceptual test: can we identify a member as the originator of this post? Having Member and NonMember rules that can both "succeed" is not coherent. I think that what should happen here is that the Member rule should try to identify the originator, and the NonMemberModeration (if in effect) should just check for a "member_identified" property. The member_identified property could be a Boolean or actually contain a list of members (list because it's not obvious what to do if each of From, Sender, and envelope sender corresponds to a different member; that would probably be a policy issue). I don't really see how order dependence can be avoided without violating DRY all over the place. Alternatively, NonMemberModeration might not be a rule, but rather a chain. Perhaps that's the most elegant solution, as order dependence between chains is necessary. From aurelien at bompard.org Wed Mar 12 16:55:13 2014 From: aurelien at bompard.org (Aurelien Bompard) Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2014 12:55:13 -0300 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Moderation rules priority In-Reply-To: <8761nkni0p.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> References: <8761nkni0p.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> Message-ID: OK, I've opened a bug on Launchpad to attach my very basic implementation (plus a unit test). It's just 3 lines, it does not implement Stephen's suggestion (which is probably better but involves some refactoring). Here is the ticket: https://bugs.launchpad.net/mailman/+bug/1291452 I've tested it on my setup, it works as expected. Aur?lien 2014-03-12 1:43 GMT-03:00 Stephen J. Turnbull : > Aurelien Bompard writes: > > > I'd like to discuss what happens when an email is sent by both a > > member and a nonmember in Mailman3. How is that possible? Very easy, > > here's my use case : I have my own domain, say example.com, and for > > convenience and portability I choose to use Gmail as a > > server/storage/interface. My main adress is alice at example.com and I > > redirect it to alice at gmail.com, while I set a default identity in > > gmail to alice at example.com which will set the proper From header. > > However, for spam detection and spoofing reasons, gmail adds a Sender > > header with alice at gmail.com. My outgoing emails thus have both a From > > and a Sender header, and in this case email clients only display the > > >From header (except Outlook, but eh...) > > Your outgoing emails also have an envelope sender, which might be > different from both of the above. > > > Mailman now: when I subscribe to a list, I use my regular address, > > alice at example.com. But the message.senders property will contain both > > addresses because of the Sender header. The email goes through the > > MemberModeration rule, which finds my subscribed address and, by > > default, associates the "defer" action. > > The email then goes through the NonMemberModeration rule, which finds > > my Gmail address and sets the action to "hold" (it ignores my main > > address because it's a member already). > > > > What do you think about all that? Do you agree there's actually an > > issue there? > > Yes. > > > Any idea how to solve it? For example, make the NonMember rule exit > > if a member is found amongst the senders (which would simply be > > equivalent to making it yield to the Member rule). Bad idea? > > Offhand I'd say that having both a Member rule and a NonMember rule is > a bad idea. There should be one conceptual test: can we identify a > member as the originator of this post? Having Member and NonMember > rules that can both "succeed" is not coherent. > > I think that what should happen here is that the Member rule should > try to identify the originator, and the NonMemberModeration (if in > effect) should just check for a "member_identified" property. The > member_identified property could be a Boolean or actually contain a > list of members (list because it's not obvious what to do if each of > From, Sender, and envelope sender corresponds to a different member; > that would probably be a policy issue). > > I don't really see how order dependence can be avoided without > violating DRY all over the place. > > Alternatively, NonMemberModeration might not be a rule, but rather a > chain. Perhaps that's the most elegant solution, as order dependence > between chains is necessary. > > > From bgolla at g.clemson.edu Wed Mar 12 18:07:58 2014 From: bgolla at g.clemson.edu (Bhargav Golla) Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2014 13:07:58 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] [GSoC 2014] Cordova/Android App for GNU Mailman Admin Interface In-Reply-To: References: <5312CD26.7060204@toybox.ca> <53173316.9030608@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi I hope my mail hasn't missed your attention. I would be very much obliged if someone could answer this question so that I can go ahead and write proposal. Thanks On Mon, Mar 10, 2014 at 9:23 AM, Bhargav Golla wrote: > Hello > > I have gone through the Admin interface and all functions that can be > achieved with the REST API. I intend to have a login screen where a user > can enter URL for the REST API endpoint, REST Username and password. We > will use this to subsequent authenticate all requests made to fetch > subscribers list, domains list, etc. > > I was wondering if I could get some feedback on this. I will start writing > my proposal based on this starting point and list out what all I would > features I would be implementing during the period of GSoC. > > Regards > > > On Wed, Mar 5, 2014 at 10:32 AM, Bhargav Golla wrote: > >> Thanks. I would have probably missed it out the first time. I will go >> through the web UI and also the documentation of REST API to understand >> what all functions need to be implemented in the admin interface for a user. >> >> Regards >> >> >> On Wed, Mar 5, 2014 at 10:25 AM, Rajeev S wrote: >> >>> Hi, >>> >>> You will be asked for the create user prompt only the first time you run >>> syncdb.That's why you don't see it now. >>> >>> Once the DB is created, only new tables, specified via django models, >>> get added to DB during the syncdb. >>> >>> >>> *Regards,Rajeev S* >>> *Government Engineering College,Thrissur* >>> *http://rajeevs.tk * >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Mar 5, 2014 at 8:47 PM, Bhargav Golla wrote: >>> >>>> Hi Rajeev >>>> >>>> I wasn't asked if I wanted to create a super user when I executed >>>> python manage.py syncdb. This was the output I got with syncdb: >>>> Creating tables... >>>> Installing Custome SQL... >>>> Installing indexes... >>>> Installed 0 object(s) from 0 fixture(s) >>>> >>>> I tried python manage.py createsuperuser and was able to login with >>>> details I provided there. >>>> >>>> Thanks for your help. >>>> >>>> Regards >>>> >>>> >>>> On Wed, Mar 5, 2014 at 10:00 AM, Rajeev S wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hi Bhargav, >>>>> >>>>> You will be asked whether to *add a superuser* during *syncdb*. If >>>>> you answered no to that, do *python manage.py createsuperuser * and >>>>> use that username and password to login. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> *Regards,Rajeev S* >>>>> *Government Engineering College,Thrissur* >>>>> *http://rajeevs.tk * >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Wed, Mar 5, 2014 at 8:05 PM, Bhargav Golla wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Hi Abhilash >>>>>> >>>>>> If you mean the last step of installation where we do cd >>>>>> postorius_standalone;python manage.py syncdb, I wasn't asked for any >>>>>> username/password. I checked the settings.py and it doesn't have any >>>>>> specific default username/password. >>>>>> >>>>>> And the http://localhost:8001/3.0 worked for me. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Wed, Mar 5, 2014 at 9:22 AM, Abhilash Raj >>>>> >wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> > Hi Bhargav, >>>>>> > >>>>>> > On Wednesday 05 March 2014 07:36 PM, Bhargav Golla wrote: >>>>>> > > Thanks for that change Rajeev. I was able to get the Web UI up and >>>>>> > running. >>>>>> > > I was trying to find out the default Username and password for >>>>>> this but >>>>>> > was >>>>>> > > unable to. When I was exploring docs in mailman.client and some >>>>>> config >>>>>> > > files in mailman, I found that the default username and password >>>>>> for >>>>>> > admin >>>>>> > > is restadmin and restpass. Tried that and was out of luck there >>>>>> too. >>>>>> > Could >>>>>> > > you help me with the default username and password details? >>>>>> > >>>>>> > While setting up Postorius(the web UI) when you do 'python manage.py >>>>>> > syncdb' for the first time, it asks you to create admin. You can >>>>>> log in >>>>>> > using those credentials. 'restadmin' and 'restpass' are the >>>>>> credentials >>>>>> > for the mailman rest server. >>>>>> > >>>>>> > > Also, there is a using.txt doc in mailman.client which says we >>>>>> can make >>>>>> > the >>>>>> > > REST requests by connecting to http://localhost:9001/3.0 using >>>>>> username >>>>>> > and >>>>>> > > password. Should the URL be http://localhost:9000/3.0 for this >>>>>> example >>>>>> > or >>>>>> > > would it be any different? >>>>>> > >>>>>> > AFAIK it is 'http://localhost:8001/3.0'. (Try it once. If I am >>>>>> wrong >>>>>> > please someone correct me) >>>>>> > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > Thanks >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > On Mon, Mar 3, 2014 at 1:38 PM, Rajeev S >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > >> Hi Bhargav, >>>>>> > >> >>>>>> > >> Just do *mailman start*, without the bin. >>>>>> > >> >>>>>> > >> I have edited the wiki. >>>>>> > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>> > >> *Regards, Rajeev S* >>>>>> > >> *Government Engineering College,Thrissur* >>>>>> > >> *http://rajeevs.tk * >>>>>> > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>> > >> On Mon, Mar 3, 2014 at 10:37 PM, Bhargav Golla < >>>>>> bgolla at g.clemson.edu >>>>>> > >wrote: >>>>>> > >> >>>>>> > >>> Thanks Barry and Terri for your feedback. >>>>>> > >>> I was trying to install Postorius locally and analyze what all >>>>>> would be >>>>>> > >>> required in a mobile app for Admin. Doing the same, I have hit a >>>>>> > >>> roadblock. >>>>>> > >>> I am using the wiki provided here[1]. I tried to install >>>>>> mailman using >>>>>> > >>> "set >>>>>> > >>> up sources" part of the wiki. Though python setup.py install >>>>>> executes >>>>>> > >>> without any errors, I am unable to see the folder bin/ in the >>>>>> same >>>>>> > >>> directory. So, even though I proceed with further setup, I am >>>>>> getting a >>>>>> > >>> "Mailman REST API not available. Please start mailman core" on >>>>>> my >>>>>> > >>> localhost:8000 webpage. Could anyone help me here? >>>>>> > >>> >>>>>> > >>> [1] >>>>>> > >>> >>>>>> > >>> >>>>>> > >>>>>> http://wiki.list.org/display/DEV/A+5+minute+guide+to+get+the+Mailman+web+UI+running >>>>>> > >>> >>>>>> > >>> Thanks >>>>>> > >>> >>>>>> > >>> >>>>>> > >>> On Sun, Mar 2, 2014 at 1:18 AM, Terri Oda >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> > >>> >>>>>> > >>>> >>>>>> > >>>> On 2014-02-28, 7:36 AM, Bhargav Golla wrote: >>>>>> > >>>> >>>>>> > >>>>> I have a few questions regarding this idea. >>>>>> > >>>>> 1. I intend to develop it on Cordova since it will help in >>>>>> porting >>>>>> > the >>>>>> > >>> app >>>>>> > >>>>> easily to multiple platforms. Were there any ideas in this >>>>>> directions >>>>>> > >>>>> regarding going native or hybrid? >>>>>> > >>>>> >>>>>> > >>>> >>>>>> > >>>> Personally, I'd prefer if we went hybrid and had an html5 >>>>>> webapp that >>>>>> > >>>> could be used straight over the web for mobile users who don't >>>>>> want to >>>>>> > >>>> install an app, with Cordova used to build the individual >>>>>> platform >>>>>> > >>> apps. I >>>>>> > >>>> may not be the mentor on this one, though, so I'm happy to >>>>>> defer to >>>>>> > >>> whoever >>>>>> > >>>> the final mentor is on this front. >>>>>> > >>>> >>>>>> > >>>> Incidentally, I've been using Intel's XDK for building Cordova >>>>>> apps >>>>>> > >>> lately >>>>>> > >>>> and highly recommend it for quick testing on various platforms >>>>>> and >>>>>> > >>> screen >>>>>> > >>>> sizes. I've found it a very useful tool, and not just because >>>>>> I work >>>>>> > >>> for >>>>>> > >>>> Intel now! >>>>>> > >>>> >>>>>> > >>>> 2. Can I assume that all mailing lists built by Mailman >>>>>> support the >>>>>> > >>> REST >>>>>> > >>>>> interface? Also, I have tried to see if I can get JSON >>>>>> responses and >>>>>> > I >>>>>> > >>> am >>>>>> > >>>>> unable to by adding a HTTP Accept Header to take >>>>>> "application/json". >>>>>> > >>> Am I >>>>>> > >>>>> doing anything wrong or is JSON not implemented? >>>>>> > >>>>> >>>>>> > >>>> >>>>>> > >>>> I don't know the answer to this off the top of my head: Barry? >>>>>> > >>>> >>>>>> > >>>> >>>>>> > >>>> 3. As a starter, could I ignore internationalization for >>>>>> GSoC, but >>>>>> > >>>>> implement interface in such a way as to be able to >>>>>> internationalize >>>>>> > it >>>>>> > >>>>> easily? >>>>>> > >>>>> >>>>>> > >>>> >>>>>> > >>>> We don't expect you to actually translate anything, don't >>>>>> worry. :) >>>>>> > But >>>>>> > >>>> you should definitely build as much as possible so that >>>>>> > >>>> internationalization will be easy: make sure there's a quick >>>>>> way to >>>>>> > get >>>>>> > >>> a >>>>>> > >>>> list of strings that need translation, at least. Some of the >>>>>> strings >>>>>> > >>> may >>>>>> > >>>> be already translated in other components of Mailman, so you >>>>>> may be >>>>>> > >>> able to >>>>>> > >>>> get some translations to use to test if you have time at the >>>>>> end of >>>>>> > the >>>>>> > >>>> summer for internationalization. >>>>>> > >>>> >>>>>> > >>>> Terri >>>>>> > >>>> >>>>>> > >>>> >>>>>> > >>> >>>>>> > >>> >>>>>> > >>> -- >>>>>> > >>> Bhargav Golla >>>>>> > >>> M.S Computer Science >>>>>> > >>> Github | >>>>>> > >>> LinkedIN >>>>>> > >>> | Website >>>>>> > >>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> > >>> Mailman-Developers mailing list >>>>>> > >>> Mailman-Developers at python.org >>>>>> > >>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers >>>>>> > >>> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 >>>>>> > >>> Searchable Archives: >>>>>> > >>> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-developers%40python.org/ >>>>>> > >>> Unsubscribe: >>>>>> > >>> >>>>>> > >>>>>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-developers/rajeevs1992%40gmail.com >>>>>> > >>> >>>>>> > >>> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 >>>>>> > >>> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > -- >>>>>> > Abhilash Raj >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Bhargav Golla >>>>>> M.S Computer Science >>>>>> Github | >>>>>> LinkedIN >>>>>> | Website >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Mailman-Developers mailing list >>>>>> Mailman-Developers at python.org >>>>>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers >>>>>> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 >>>>>> Searchable Archives: >>>>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-developers%40python.org/ >>>>>> Unsubscribe: >>>>>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-developers/rajeevs1992%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Bhargav Golla >>>> M.S Computer Science >>>> Github | LinkedIN >>>> | Website >>>> >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> Bhargav Golla >> M.S Computer Science >> Github | LinkedIN >> | Website >> > > > > -- > Bhargav Golla > M.S Computer Science > Github | LinkedIN > | Website > -- Bhargav Golla M.S Computer Science Github | LinkedIN | Website From stephen at xemacs.org Thu Mar 13 02:48:09 2014 From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull) Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2014 10:48:09 +0900 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] [GSoC 2014] Cordova/Android App for GNU Mailman Admin Interface In-Reply-To: References: <5312CD26.7060204@toybox.ca> <53173316.9030608@gmail.com> Message-ID: <87pplqna1y.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> Bhargav Golla writes: > I hope my mail hasn't missed your attention. I would be very much > obliged if someone could answer this question so that I can go > ahead and write proposal. First, it's impolite to send mail to specific people just because they're answered you before, unless they are specifically interested in mentoring your project or have requested personal mail. I don't think either is true (according to the wiki, there are no prospective mentors for this project -- I'm sure there are some, but they're not identified). Everybody reads this list, and by addressing them specifically you may be sending them duplicates. Note: no harm done this time, but you will be a much more valuable developer if you become sensitive to these "marginal" "people skills". Second, you yourself have not responded to a somewhat detailed comment from Terri about using HTML5. I for one have been waiting for that. See also the "Postorius Responsive UI" project. Third, "there's not much here to comment on" is all I really have to say. From the Subject I can see that you're interested in a handheld interface. From the text you quote, I see you have a *very* basic grasp of the requirements of web protocols for this application. You probably know a heck of a lot more -- but that's all I can confirm from your posts. The way you ask is problematic. On the one hand, a GSoC proposal is not a homework for school. There are no "right" answers, only good ones and better ones. And you don't have to give a superior answer immediately to qualify, only show promise of heading in the right direction. (Of course, there are more students than slots, so you also have to show more promise than others. But you have another week or so to improve, and the delta can be in your favor.) On the other, it's not *one* question. Rather, it has a strong whiff of "please write half my proposal (the hard half) for me". So just write your proposal so there's something to actually comment on. All that said, "login screens" are way clunky for modern handheld apps. Users expect a smooth convenient experience. Second, that experience does not include entering passwords on a frequent basis. You should look into including TLS authentication. These need not be present in the initial design, and maybe they won't even be in your delivered product. But you should think in terms of a design that allows easy upgrades to the UI. Steve > > Thanks > > > On Mon, Mar 10, 2014 at 9:23 AM, Bhargav Golla wrote: > > > Hello > > > > I have gone through the Admin interface and all functions that can be > > achieved with the REST API. I intend to have a login screen where a user > > can enter URL for the REST API endpoint, REST Username and password. We > > will use this to subsequent authenticate all requests made to fetch > > subscribers list, domains list, etc. > > > > I was wondering if I could get some feedback on this. I will start writing > > my proposal based on this starting point and list out what all I would > > features I would be implementing during the period of GSoC. > > > > Regards > > > > > > On Wed, Mar 5, 2014 at 10:32 AM, Bhargav Golla wrote: > > > >> Thanks. I would have probably missed it out the first time. I will go > >> through the web UI and also the documentation of REST API to understand > >> what all functions need to be implemented in the admin interface for a user. > >> > >> Regards > >> > >> > >> On Wed, Mar 5, 2014 at 10:25 AM, Rajeev S wrote: > >> > >>> Hi, > >>> > >>> You will be asked for the create user prompt only the first time you run > >>> syncdb.That's why you don't see it now. > >>> > >>> Once the DB is created, only new tables, specified via django models, > >>> get added to DB during the syncdb. > >>> > >>> > >>> *Regards,Rajeev S* > >>> *Government Engineering College,Thrissur* > >>> *http://rajeevs.tk * > >>> > >>> > >>> On Wed, Mar 5, 2014 at 8:47 PM, Bhargav Golla wrote: > >>> > >>>> Hi Rajeev > >>>> > >>>> I wasn't asked if I wanted to create a super user when I executed > >>>> python manage.py syncdb. This was the output I got with syncdb: > >>>> Creating tables... > >>>> Installing Custome SQL... > >>>> Installing indexes... > >>>> Installed 0 object(s) from 0 fixture(s) > >>>> > >>>> I tried python manage.py createsuperuser and was able to login with > >>>> details I provided there. > >>>> > >>>> Thanks for your help. > >>>> > >>>> Regards > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> On Wed, Mar 5, 2014 at 10:00 AM, Rajeev S wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> Hi Bhargav, > >>>>> > >>>>> You will be asked whether to *add a superuser* during *syncdb*. If > >>>>> you answered no to that, do *python manage.py createsuperuser * and > >>>>> use that username and password to login. > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> *Regards,Rajeev S* > >>>>> *Government Engineering College,Thrissur* > >>>>> *http://rajeevs.tk * > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> On Wed, Mar 5, 2014 at 8:05 PM, Bhargav Golla wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>>> Hi Abhilash > >>>>>> > >>>>>> If you mean the last step of installation where we do cd > >>>>>> postorius_standalone;python manage.py syncdb, I wasn't asked for any > >>>>>> username/password. I checked the settings.py and it doesn't have any > >>>>>> specific default username/password. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> And the http://localhost:8001/3.0 worked for me. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> On Wed, Mar 5, 2014 at 9:22 AM, Abhilash Raj >>>>>> >wrote: > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > Hi Bhargav, > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > On Wednesday 05 March 2014 07:36 PM, Bhargav Golla wrote: > >>>>>> > > Thanks for that change Rajeev. I was able to get the Web UI up and > >>>>>> > running. > >>>>>> > > I was trying to find out the default Username and password for > >>>>>> this but > >>>>>> > was > >>>>>> > > unable to. When I was exploring docs in mailman.client and some > >>>>>> config > >>>>>> > > files in mailman, I found that the default username and password > >>>>>> for > >>>>>> > admin > >>>>>> > > is restadmin and restpass. Tried that and was out of luck there > >>>>>> too. > >>>>>> > Could > >>>>>> > > you help me with the default username and password details? > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > While setting up Postorius(the web UI) when you do 'python manage.py > >>>>>> > syncdb' for the first time, it asks you to create admin. You can > >>>>>> log in > >>>>>> > using those credentials. 'restadmin' and 'restpass' are the > >>>>>> credentials > >>>>>> > for the mailman rest server. > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > Also, there is a using.txt doc in mailman.client which says we > >>>>>> can make > >>>>>> > the > >>>>>> > > REST requests by connecting to http://localhost:9001/3.0 using > >>>>>> username > >>>>>> > and > >>>>>> > > password. Should the URL be http://localhost:9000/3.0 for this > >>>>>> example > >>>>>> > or > >>>>>> > > would it be any different? > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > AFAIK it is 'http://localhost:8001/3.0'. (Try it once. If I am > >>>>>> wrong > >>>>>> > please someone correct me) > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>>> > > Thanks > >>>>>> > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>>> > > On Mon, Mar 3, 2014 at 1:38 PM, Rajeev S > >>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>> > > > >>>>>> > >> Hi Bhargav, > >>>>>> > >> > >>>>>> > >> Just do *mailman start*, without the bin. > >>>>>> > >> > >>>>>> > >> I have edited the wiki. > >>>>>> > >> > >>>>>> > >> > >>>>>> > >> *Regards, Rajeev S* > >>>>>> > >> *Government Engineering College,Thrissur* > >>>>>> > >> *http://rajeevs.tk * > >>>>>> > >> > >>>>>> > >> > >>>>>> > >> On Mon, Mar 3, 2014 at 10:37 PM, Bhargav Golla < > >>>>>> bgolla at g.clemson.edu > >>>>>> > >wrote: > >>>>>> > >> > >>>>>> > >>> Thanks Barry and Terri for your feedback. > >>>>>> > >>> I was trying to install Postorius locally and analyze what all > >>>>>> would be > >>>>>> > >>> required in a mobile app for Admin. Doing the same, I have hit a > >>>>>> > >>> roadblock. > >>>>>> > >>> I am using the wiki provided here[1]. I tried to install > >>>>>> mailman using > >>>>>> > >>> "set > >>>>>> > >>> up sources" part of the wiki. Though python setup.py install > >>>>>> executes > >>>>>> > >>> without any errors, I am unable to see the folder bin/ in the > >>>>>> same > >>>>>> > >>> directory. So, even though I proceed with further setup, I am > >>>>>> getting a > >>>>>> > >>> "Mailman REST API not available. Please start mailman core" on > >>>>>> my > >>>>>> > >>> localhost:8000 webpage. Could anyone help me here? > >>>>>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >>> [1] > >>>>>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >>> > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> http://wiki.list.org/display/DEV/A+5+minute+guide+to+get+the+Mailman+web+UI+running > >>>>>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >>> Thanks > >>>>>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >>> On Sun, Mar 2, 2014 at 1:18 AM, Terri Oda > >>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >>>> > >>>>>> > >>>> On 2014-02-28, 7:36 AM, Bhargav Golla wrote: > >>>>>> > >>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>> I have a few questions regarding this idea. > >>>>>> > >>>>> 1. I intend to develop it on Cordova since it will help in > >>>>>> porting > >>>>>> > the > >>>>>> > >>> app > >>>>>> > >>>>> easily to multiple platforms. Were there any ideas in this > >>>>>> directions > >>>>>> > >>>>> regarding going native or hybrid? > >>>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>> > >>>>>> > >>>> Personally, I'd prefer if we went hybrid and had an html5 > >>>>>> webapp that > >>>>>> > >>>> could be used straight over the web for mobile users who don't > >>>>>> want to > >>>>>> > >>>> install an app, with Cordova used to build the individual > >>>>>> platform > >>>>>> > >>> apps. I > >>>>>> > >>>> may not be the mentor on this one, though, so I'm happy to > >>>>>> defer to > >>>>>> > >>> whoever > >>>>>> > >>>> the final mentor is on this front. > >>>>>> > >>>> > >>>>>> > >>>> Incidentally, I've been using Intel's XDK for building Cordova > >>>>>> apps > >>>>>> > >>> lately > >>>>>> > >>>> and highly recommend it for quick testing on various platforms > >>>>>> and > >>>>>> > >>> screen > >>>>>> > >>>> sizes. I've found it a very useful tool, and not just because > >>>>>> I work > >>>>>> > >>> for > >>>>>> > >>>> Intel now! > >>>>>> > >>>> > >>>>>> > >>>> 2. Can I assume that all mailing lists built by Mailman > >>>>>> support the > >>>>>> > >>> REST > >>>>>> > >>>>> interface? Also, I have tried to see if I can get JSON > >>>>>> responses and > >>>>>> > I > >>>>>> > >>> am > >>>>>> > >>>>> unable to by adding a HTTP Accept Header to take > >>>>>> "application/json". > >>>>>> > >>> Am I > >>>>>> > >>>>> doing anything wrong or is JSON not implemented? > >>>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>> > >>>>>> > >>>> I don't know the answer to this off the top of my head: Barry? > >>>>>> > >>>> > >>>>>> > >>>> > >>>>>> > >>>> 3. As a starter, could I ignore internationalization for > >>>>>> GSoC, but > >>>>>> > >>>>> implement interface in such a way as to be able to > >>>>>> internationalize > >>>>>> > it > >>>>>> > >>>>> easily? > >>>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>> > >>>>>> > >>>> We don't expect you to actually translate anything, don't > >>>>>> worry. :) > >>>>>> > But > >>>>>> > >>>> you should definitely build as much as possible so that > >>>>>> > >>>> internationalization will be easy: make sure there's a quick > >>>>>> way to > >>>>>> > get > >>>>>> > >>> a > >>>>>> > >>>> list of strings that need translation, at least. Some of the > >>>>>> strings > >>>>>> > >>> may > >>>>>> > >>>> be already translated in other components of Mailman, so you > >>>>>> may be > >>>>>> > >>> able to > >>>>>> > >>>> get some translations to use to test if you have time at the > >>>>>> end of > >>>>>> > the > >>>>>> > >>>> summer for internationalization. > >>>>>> > >>>> > >>>>>> > >>>> Terri > >>>>>> > >>>> > >>>>>> > >>>> > >>>>>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >>> -- > >>>>>> > >>> Bhargav Golla > >>>>>> > >>> M.S Computer Science > >>>>>> > >>> Github | > >>>>>> > >>> LinkedIN > >>>>>> > >>> | Website > >>>>>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>> > >>> Mailman-Developers mailing list > >>>>>> > >>> Mailman-Developers at python.org > >>>>>> > >>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers > >>>>>> > >>> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 > >>>>>> > >>> Searchable Archives: > >>>>>> > >>> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-developers%40python.org/ > >>>>>> > >>> Unsubscribe: > >>>>>> > >>> > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-developers/rajeevs1992%40gmail.com > >>>>>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >>> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 > >>>>>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> > >>>>>> > >> > >>>>>> > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > -- > >>>>>> > Abhilash Raj > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> -- > >>>>>> Bhargav Golla > >>>>>> M.S Computer Science > >>>>>> Github | > >>>>>> LinkedIN > >>>>>> | Website > >>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>> Mailman-Developers mailing list > >>>>>> Mailman-Developers at python.org > >>>>>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers > >>>>>> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 > >>>>>> Searchable Archives: > >>>>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-developers%40python.org/ > >>>>>> Unsubscribe: > >>>>>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-developers/rajeevs1992%40gmail.com > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 > >>>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> -- > >>>> Bhargav Golla > >>>> M.S Computer Science > >>>> Github | LinkedIN > >>>> | Website > >>>> > >>> > >>> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> Bhargav Golla > >> M.S Computer Science > >> Github | LinkedIN > >> | Website > >> > > > > > > > > -- > > Bhargav Golla > > M.S Computer Science > > Github | LinkedIN > > | Website > > > > > > -- > Bhargav Golla > M.S Computer Science > Github | > LinkedIN > | Website > _______________________________________________ > Mailman-Developers mailing list > Mailman-Developers at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers > Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 > Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-developers%40python.org/ > Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-developers/stephen%40xemacs.org > > Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 From barry at list.org Thu Mar 13 02:59:50 2014 From: barry at list.org (Barry Warsaw) Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2014 21:59:50 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Moderation rules priority In-Reply-To: <8761nkni0p.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> References: <8761nkni0p.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> Message-ID: <20140312215950.4258fae6@anarchist.wooz.org> On Mar 12, 2014, at 01:43 PM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: >Offhand I'd say that having both a Member rule and a NonMember rule is >a bad idea. There should be one conceptual test: can we identify a >member as the originator of this post? Having Member and NonMember >rules that can both "succeed" is not coherent. I agree, in theory, but there are two reasons I split these. At first there was only a membership rule, and the non-member rule was added later. But more importantly, there *is* an implicit ordering, not through the rules (which there can't be), but through the chain in which these rules are links, specifically the default-posting-chain. Rules either hit or miss, they are pure binary tests. By side-effect, both the member rule and non-member rule set two message metadata keys, 'moderation_action' and 'moderation_sender', and of course the two rules set them differently depending on the defaults and such. It's the moderation chain that looks at these metadata keys and actually performs the moderation action *if* the rule hits. The moderation chain can be jumped to if the member moderation rule hits, which happens early in the chain, or the non-member rule hits, which happens later in the chain. Think of it like this: if the membership rule hits (i.e. the sender is a member), then we can (but don't necessarily have to) bypass checks like administrivia or implicit destination. This might be the case if I were to configure my list to say "All messages sent by Steve should be accepted without question". By default, we'll probably defer if the membership test hits, so that we normally do perform the other rule checks. Toward the end of the chain, we do the non-member check. Let say the message has passed all other rules and it would normally be okay to post, but it comes from a non-member. If the rule hits, we'll again jump to the moderation chain, taking whatever action is appropriate. Usually this will be the default non-member action, but we could potentially do something else, like say "Even though Alice isn't a member of this list, we've seen her posts before and they are on-topic, so let's accept them", or "Bob is a spammer, always discard his messages". The default posting chain has one final link, which has the 'truth' rule (i.e. it always matches). Thus let's say that the poster is a member with a deferred posting action, and none of the other rules hit, so his message gets sent to the 'accept' chain where it is accepted for posting and gets further processed. The same ultimate result could happen if the poster is a non-member, but the default non-member rule is to accept posts from anybody. I'm having a hard time right now seeing how we could continue to support these types of operations with a combined member and non-member rule. I *think* the right solution may be to continue to keep the rules separate, but add an extra check to the nonmember-moderation rule, such that if any of the senders are members, then the rule cannot hit, i.e. the sender is definitely not a non-member. A quick look at Aur?lien's patch seems about the right way to do it. I'll hold off on reviewing and merging it though, to get any additional feedback you might have. Cheers, -Barry From bgolla at g.clemson.edu Thu Mar 13 05:41:07 2014 From: bgolla at g.clemson.edu (Bhargav Golla) Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2014 00:41:07 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] [GSoC 2014] Cordova/Android App for GNU Mailman Admin Interface In-Reply-To: <87pplqna1y.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> References: <5312CD26.7060204@toybox.ca> <53173316.9030608@gmail.com> <87pplqna1y.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> Message-ID: Hi Stephen Thanks for your feedback. I sincerely apologize for CC'ing people in the mail who weren't mentors. But, during my experience with work at ASF, I was asked to mention the project head in all mails when there is no mentor assigned on an idea. That is solely the reason why I included Terri and Barry (who are on the list of mentors and also responded to my doubts). I guess the culture varies from organization to organization and I should have been wary of this or should have followed usual email etiquette. It was wrong on my part and I am sure this was a learning experience and I would ensure that this wouldn't happen another time. Regarding your second comment, I indeed took Terri's suggestion about Intel XDK and am evaluating it while I am writing the proposal. And I have missed out Postorius responsive UI project idea. Thanks for pointing it out. And regarding login screens, I meant them to be like the settings page of apps where we provide our username and password and it will be saved until a user wants to revoke it. That way, the user won't be asked for username and password every time he wants to use the app. But, taking your suggestions, I think I shouldn't hold back on my proposal but should send it in and take feedback on it on the whole without asking individual questions. I will turn it in once I complete it and am sure there would be much more feedback I can expect from the likes of you. Thanks On Wed, Mar 12, 2014 at 9:48 PM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: > Bhargav Golla writes: > > > I hope my mail hasn't missed your attention. I would be very much > > obliged if someone could answer this question so that I can go > > ahead and write proposal. > > First, it's impolite to send mail to specific people just because > they're answered you before, unless they are specifically interested > in mentoring your project or have requested personal mail. I don't > think either is true (according to the wiki, there are no prospective > mentors for this project -- I'm sure there are some, but they're not > identified). Everybody reads this list, and by addressing them > specifically you may be sending them duplicates. Note: no harm done > this time, but you will be a much more valuable developer if you > become sensitive to these "marginal" "people skills". > > Second, you yourself have not responded to a somewhat detailed comment > from Terri about using HTML5. I for one have been waiting for that. > See also the "Postorius Responsive UI" project. > > Third, "there's not much here to comment on" is all I really have to > say. From the Subject I can see that you're interested in a handheld > interface. From the text you quote, I see you have a *very* basic > grasp of the requirements of web protocols for this application. You > probably know a heck of a lot more -- but that's all I can confirm > from your posts. > > The way you ask is problematic. On the one hand, a GSoC proposal is > not a homework for school. There are no "right" answers, only good > ones and better ones. And you don't have to give a superior answer > immediately to qualify, only show promise of heading in the right > direction. (Of course, there are more students than slots, so you > also have to show more promise than others. But you have another week > or so to improve, and the delta can be in your favor.) On the other, > it's not *one* question. Rather, it has a strong whiff of "please > write half my proposal (the hard half) for me". > > So just write your proposal so there's something to actually comment > on. > > All that said, "login screens" are way clunky for modern handheld > apps. Users expect a smooth convenient experience. Second, that > experience does not include entering passwords on a frequent basis. > You should look into including TLS authentication. These need not be > present in the initial design, and maybe they won't even be in your > delivered product. But you should think in terms of a design that > allows easy upgrades to the UI. > > Steve > > > > > Thanks > > > > > > On Mon, Mar 10, 2014 at 9:23 AM, Bhargav Golla > wrote: > > > > > Hello > > > > > > I have gone through the Admin interface and all functions that can be > > > achieved with the REST API. I intend to have a login screen where a > user > > > can enter URL for the REST API endpoint, REST Username and password. > We > > > will use this to subsequent authenticate all requests made to fetch > > > subscribers list, domains list, etc. > > > > > > I was wondering if I could get some feedback on this. I will start > writing > > > my proposal based on this starting point and list out what all I would > > > features I would be implementing during the period of GSoC. > > > > > > Regards > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Mar 5, 2014 at 10:32 AM, Bhargav Golla >wrote: > > > > > >> Thanks. I would have probably missed it out the first time. I will go > > >> through the web UI and also the documentation of REST API to > understand > > >> what all functions need to be implemented in the admin interface for > a user. > > >> > > >> Regards > > >> > > >> > > >> On Wed, Mar 5, 2014 at 10:25 AM, Rajeev S > wrote: > > >> > > >>> Hi, > > >>> > > >>> You will be asked for the create user prompt only the first time > you run > > >>> syncdb.That's why you don't see it now. > > >>> > > >>> Once the DB is created, only new tables, specified via django > models, > > >>> get added to DB during the syncdb. > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> *Regards,Rajeev S* > > >>> *Government Engineering College,Thrissur* > > >>> *http://rajeevs.tk * > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> On Wed, Mar 5, 2014 at 8:47 PM, Bhargav Golla >wrote: > > >>> > > >>>> Hi Rajeev > > >>>> > > >>>> I wasn't asked if I wanted to create a super user when I executed > > >>>> python manage.py syncdb. This was the output I got with syncdb: > > >>>> Creating tables... > > >>>> Installing Custome SQL... > > >>>> Installing indexes... > > >>>> Installed 0 object(s) from 0 fixture(s) > > >>>> > > >>>> I tried python manage.py createsuperuser and was able to login with > > >>>> details I provided there. > > >>>> > > >>>> Thanks for your help. > > >>>> > > >>>> Regards > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> On Wed, Mar 5, 2014 at 10:00 AM, Rajeev S >wrote: > > >>>> > > >>>>> Hi Bhargav, > > >>>>> > > >>>>> You will be asked whether to *add a superuser* during *syncdb*. If > > >>>>> you answered no to that, do *python manage.py createsuperuser * > and > > >>>>> use that username and password to login. > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> *Regards,Rajeev S* > > >>>>> *Government Engineering College,Thrissur* > > >>>>> *http://rajeevs.tk * > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> On Wed, Mar 5, 2014 at 8:05 PM, Bhargav Golla < > bgolla at g.clemson.edu>wrote: > > >>>>> > > >>>>>> Hi Abhilash > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> If you mean the last step of installation where we do cd > > >>>>>> postorius_standalone;python manage.py syncdb, I wasn't asked for > any > > >>>>>> username/password. I checked the settings.py and it doesn't have > any > > >>>>>> specific default username/password. > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> And the http://localhost:8001/3.0 worked for me. > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> On Wed, Mar 5, 2014 at 9:22 AM, Abhilash Raj < > raj.abhilash1 at gmail.com > > >>>>>> >wrote: > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > Hi Bhargav, > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>>> > On Wednesday 05 March 2014 07:36 PM, Bhargav Golla wrote: > > >>>>>> > > Thanks for that change Rajeev. I was able to get the Web UI > up and > > >>>>>> > running. > > >>>>>> > > I was trying to find out the default Username and password > for > > >>>>>> this but > > >>>>>> > was > > >>>>>> > > unable to. When I was exploring docs in mailman.client and > some > > >>>>>> config > > >>>>>> > > files in mailman, I found that the default username and > password > > >>>>>> for > > >>>>>> > admin > > >>>>>> > > is restadmin and restpass. Tried that and was out of luck > there > > >>>>>> too. > > >>>>>> > Could > > >>>>>> > > you help me with the default username and password details? > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>>> > While setting up Postorius(the web UI) when you do 'python > manage.py > > >>>>>> > syncdb' for the first time, it asks you to create admin. You > can > > >>>>>> log in > > >>>>>> > using those credentials. 'restadmin' and 'restpass' are the > > >>>>>> credentials > > >>>>>> > for the mailman rest server. > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>>> > > Also, there is a using.txt doc in mailman.client which says > we > > >>>>>> can make > > >>>>>> > the > > >>>>>> > > REST requests by connecting to http://localhost:9001/3.0using > > >>>>>> username > > >>>>>> > and > > >>>>>> > > password. Should the URL be http://localhost:9000/3.0 for > this > > >>>>>> example > > >>>>>> > or > > >>>>>> > > would it be any different? > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>>> > AFAIK it is 'http://localhost:8001/3.0'. (Try it once. If I am > > >>>>>> wrong > > >>>>>> > please someone correct me) > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>>> > > Thanks > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>>> > > On Mon, Mar 3, 2014 at 1:38 PM, Rajeev S < > rajeevs1992 at gmail.com> > > >>>>>> wrote: > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>>> > >> Hi Bhargav, > > >>>>>> > >> > > >>>>>> > >> Just do *mailman start*, without the bin. > > >>>>>> > >> > > >>>>>> > >> I have edited the wiki. > > >>>>>> > >> > > >>>>>> > >> > > >>>>>> > >> *Regards, Rajeev S* > > >>>>>> > >> *Government Engineering College,Thrissur* > > >>>>>> > >> *http://rajeevs.tk * > > >>>>>> > >> > > >>>>>> > >> > > >>>>>> > >> On Mon, Mar 3, 2014 at 10:37 PM, Bhargav Golla < > > >>>>>> bgolla at g.clemson.edu > > >>>>>> > >wrote: > > >>>>>> > >> > > >>>>>> > >>> Thanks Barry and Terri for your feedback. > > >>>>>> > >>> I was trying to install Postorius locally and analyze what > all > > >>>>>> would be > > >>>>>> > >>> required in a mobile app for Admin. Doing the same, I have > hit a > > >>>>>> > >>> roadblock. > > >>>>>> > >>> I am using the wiki provided here[1]. I tried to install > > >>>>>> mailman using > > >>>>>> > >>> "set > > >>>>>> > >>> up sources" part of the wiki. Though python setup.py > install > > >>>>>> executes > > >>>>>> > >>> without any errors, I am unable to see the folder bin/ in > the > > >>>>>> same > > >>>>>> > >>> directory. So, even though I proceed with further setup, I > am > > >>>>>> getting a > > >>>>>> > >>> "Mailman REST API not available. Please start mailman > core" on > > >>>>>> my > > >>>>>> > >>> localhost:8000 webpage. Could anyone help me here? > > >>>>>> > >>> > > >>>>>> > >>> [1] > > >>>>>> > >>> > > >>>>>> > >>> > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>>> > http://wiki.list.org/display/DEV/A+5+minute+guide+to+get+the+Mailman+web+UI+running > > >>>>>> > >>> > > >>>>>> > >>> Thanks > > >>>>>> > >>> > > >>>>>> > >>> > > >>>>>> > >>> On Sun, Mar 2, 2014 at 1:18 AM, Terri Oda > > > >>>>>> wrote: > > >>>>>> > >>> > > >>>>>> > >>>> > > >>>>>> > >>>> On 2014-02-28, 7:36 AM, Bhargav Golla wrote: > > >>>>>> > >>>> > > >>>>>> > >>>>> I have a few questions regarding this idea. > > >>>>>> > >>>>> 1. I intend to develop it on Cordova since it will help > in > > >>>>>> porting > > >>>>>> > the > > >>>>>> > >>> app > > >>>>>> > >>>>> easily to multiple platforms. Were there any ideas in > this > > >>>>>> directions > > >>>>>> > >>>>> regarding going native or hybrid? > > >>>>>> > >>>>> > > >>>>>> > >>>> > > >>>>>> > >>>> Personally, I'd prefer if we went hybrid and had an html5 > > >>>>>> webapp that > > >>>>>> > >>>> could be used straight over the web for mobile users who > don't > > >>>>>> want to > > >>>>>> > >>>> install an app, with Cordova used to build the individual > > >>>>>> platform > > >>>>>> > >>> apps. I > > >>>>>> > >>>> may not be the mentor on this one, though, so I'm happy to > > >>>>>> defer to > > >>>>>> > >>> whoever > > >>>>>> > >>>> the final mentor is on this front. > > >>>>>> > >>>> > > >>>>>> > >>>> Incidentally, I've been using Intel's XDK for building > Cordova > > >>>>>> apps > > >>>>>> > >>> lately > > >>>>>> > >>>> and highly recommend it for quick testing on various > platforms > > >>>>>> and > > >>>>>> > >>> screen > > >>>>>> > >>>> sizes. I've found it a very useful tool, and not just > because > > >>>>>> I work > > >>>>>> > >>> for > > >>>>>> > >>>> Intel now! > > >>>>>> > >>>> > > >>>>>> > >>>> 2. Can I assume that all mailing lists built by Mailman > > >>>>>> support the > > >>>>>> > >>> REST > > >>>>>> > >>>>> interface? Also, I have tried to see if I can get JSON > > >>>>>> responses and > > >>>>>> > I > > >>>>>> > >>> am > > >>>>>> > >>>>> unable to by adding a HTTP Accept Header to take > > >>>>>> "application/json". > > >>>>>> > >>> Am I > > >>>>>> > >>>>> doing anything wrong or is JSON not implemented? > > >>>>>> > >>>>> > > >>>>>> > >>>> > > >>>>>> > >>>> I don't know the answer to this off the top of my head: > Barry? > > >>>>>> > >>>> > > >>>>>> > >>>> > > >>>>>> > >>>> 3. As a starter, could I ignore internationalization for > > >>>>>> GSoC, but > > >>>>>> > >>>>> implement interface in such a way as to be able to > > >>>>>> internationalize > > >>>>>> > it > > >>>>>> > >>>>> easily? > > >>>>>> > >>>>> > > >>>>>> > >>>> > > >>>>>> > >>>> We don't expect you to actually translate anything, don't > > >>>>>> worry. :) > > >>>>>> > But > > >>>>>> > >>>> you should definitely build as much as possible so that > > >>>>>> > >>>> internationalization will be easy: make sure there's a > quick > > >>>>>> way to > > >>>>>> > get > > >>>>>> > >>> a > > >>>>>> > >>>> list of strings that need translation, at least. Some of > the > > >>>>>> strings > > >>>>>> > >>> may > > >>>>>> > >>>> be already translated in other components of Mailman, so > you > > >>>>>> may be > > >>>>>> > >>> able to > > >>>>>> > >>>> get some translations to use to test if you have time at > the > > >>>>>> end of > > >>>>>> > the > > >>>>>> > >>>> summer for internationalization. > > >>>>>> > >>>> > > >>>>>> > >>>> Terri > > >>>>>> > >>>> > > >>>>>> > >>>> > > >>>>>> > >>> > > >>>>>> > >>> > > >>>>>> > >>> -- > > >>>>>> > >>> Bhargav Golla > > >>>>>> > >>> M.S Computer Science > > >>>>>> > >>> Github | > > >>>>>> > >>> LinkedIN > > >>>>>> > >>> | Website > > >>>>>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > > >>>>>> > >>> Mailman-Developers mailing list > > >>>>>> > >>> Mailman-Developers at python.org > > >>>>>> > >>> > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers > > >>>>>> > >>> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 > > >>>>>> > >>> Searchable Archives: > > >>>>>> > >>> > http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-developers%40python.org/ > > >>>>>> > >>> Unsubscribe: > > >>>>>> > >>> > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>>> > https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-developers/rajeevs1992%40gmail.com > > >>>>>> > >>> > > >>>>>> > >>> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 > > >>>>>> > >>> > > >>>>>> > >> > > >>>>>> > >> > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>>> > -- > > >>>>>> > Abhilash Raj > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> -- > > >>>>>> Bhargav Golla > > >>>>>> M.S Computer Science > > >>>>>> Github | > > >>>>>> LinkedIN > > >>>>>> | Website > > >>>>>> _______________________________________________ > > >>>>>> Mailman-Developers mailing list > > >>>>>> Mailman-Developers at python.org > > >>>>>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers > > >>>>>> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 > > >>>>>> Searchable Archives: > > >>>>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-developers%40python.org/ > > >>>>>> Unsubscribe: > > >>>>>> > https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-developers/rajeevs1992%40gmail.com > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 > > >>>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> -- > > >>>> Bhargav Golla > > >>>> M.S Computer Science > > >>>> Github | LinkedIN< > http://www.linkedin.com/in/bhargavgolla> > > >>>> | Website > > >>>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >> > > >> > > >> -- > > >> Bhargav Golla > > >> M.S Computer Science > > >> Github | LinkedIN< > http://www.linkedin.com/in/bhargavgolla> > > >> | Website > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Bhargav Golla > > > M.S Computer Science > > > Github | LinkedIN< > http://www.linkedin.com/in/bhargavgolla> > > > | Website > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Bhargav Golla > > M.S Computer Science > > Github | > > LinkedIN > > | Website > > _______________________________________________ > > Mailman-Developers mailing list > > Mailman-Developers at python.org > > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers > > Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 > > Searchable Archives: > http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-developers%40python.org/ > > Unsubscribe: > https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-developers/stephen%40xemacs.org > > > > Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 > -- Bhargav Golla M.S Computer Science Github | LinkedIN | Website From stephen at xemacs.org Thu Mar 13 09:06:56 2014 From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull) Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2014 17:06:56 +0900 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Moderation rules priority In-Reply-To: <20140312215950.4258fae6@anarchist.wooz.org> References: <8761nkni0p.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <20140312215950.4258fae6@anarchist.wooz.org> Message-ID: <87d2hqmsin.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> Barry Warsaw writes: > I'm having a hard time right now seeing how we could continue to > support these types of operations with a combined member and > non-member rule. I expressed myself poorly. The parameters of the decision logic given the list of senders are different for the two rules so both rules are needed. But I really think that determining the sender should be done in one place by one set of principles, separated from the "to post or to moderate" logic. Maybe we could use all_senders, member_senders, and apparent_sender properties (where the last is Mailman's best guess at who's reponsible for sending the mail for the purpose of moderation), or perhaps just apparent_sender and sender_is_member properties. > I *think* the right solution may be to continue to keep the rules > separate, but add an extra check to the nonmember-moderation rule, > such that if any of the senders are members, then the rule cannot hit. This is horrible. You've already done that check in the Member rule. It's OK as a stop-gap, I don't really object applying to Aurelian's patch in principle, because I think it should be fixed now. The meta-rules about how to compose rulesets need discussion before doing anything more invasive. From stephen at xemacs.org Thu Mar 13 09:14:47 2014 From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull) Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2014 17:14:47 +0900 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] [GSoC 2014] Cordova/Android App for GNU Mailman Admin Interface In-Reply-To: References: <5312CD26.7060204@toybox.ca> <53173316.9030608@gmail.com> <87pplqna1y.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> Message-ID: <87bnxams5k.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> Bhargav Golla writes: > guess the culture varies from organization to organization Thank you for pointing this out. Indeed it does. ASF (and the PSF for that matter) have a lot more applicants, and at least the PSF is using a generic channel -- core-mentorship -- for GSoC and OPW interns. In those cases it makes a lot of sense to clearly indicate what the post is for, and who. In Mailman it happens to be the case that this list, although it is the generic developers list, is relatively low traffic, except at GSoC time. So we know what you're going to talk about. :-) > and I should have been wary of this or should have followed usual > email etiquette. It was wrong on my part I certainly wouldn't say "wrong", as you apparently are already well- aware of the etiquette issues. You did your best. We can't ask for more than that given varying culture and needs. (Heck, I myself didn't clean up the headers....) Steve From flo.fuchs at gmail.com Thu Mar 13 21:39:11 2014 From: flo.fuchs at gmail.com (Florian Fuchs) Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2014 21:39:11 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] [GSoC 2014] Cordova/Android App for GNU Mailman Admin Interface In-Reply-To: References: <5312CD26.7060204@toybox.ca> <53173316.9030608@gmail.com> <87pplqna1y.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> Message-ID: <5322176F.5080703@gmail.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 03/13/2014 05:41 AM, Bhargav Golla wrote: > Regarding your second comment, I indeed took Terri's suggestion > about Intel XDK and am evaluating it while I am writing the > proposal. And I have missed out Postorius responsive UI project > idea. Thanks for pointing it out. The two project ideas ("Cordova app" vs. "Postorius responsive") are similar to some extend, but with significant differences. Let me highlight some of them: Both projects will make you write a good amount HTML/CSS/JS code, as Cordova also uses these technologies for the user interface. Ideally (if both projects are implemented - which isn't very likely) the UI should not be much different - no matter if you open Postorius on a phone's browser or use the native Cordova app. 1. Postorius responsive The Postorius responsive project builds on an existing (Django) back-end that is ready to be used. You might need to implement *some* backend features, but (in contrast to the Cordova project) especially the authentication/authorization part is something you will not have to worry about because the framework already takes care of this. You can concentrate on the interesting UI parts and make everything work nicely on a variety of different devices. Oh, but please don't underestimate the amount of (really very interesting) work you can put into making a site really usable with either keyboard, mouse and fingers. 2. Cordova app The Cordova project is different in that it doesn't build on an existing underlying back-end, which means you will have to take care of the communication with the core, as well as of authorization. Mailman's REST API is mainly built for local use, giving you wide-ranging permissions by default (meaning: if your credentials are ok, you can do everything). It's definitely not advisable to expose it directly to a phone app and then let this app manage the permissions (because that way all users could make themselves admins by manipulating the app's source code). So what's needed is a layer in between (and controlled by the site, not the app). This could be implemented as part of Postorius, but it could theoretically also be something else on top of the core's REST API. Which one would first have to be discussed (there are good arguments to be made for both scenarios). So, in the end, the Cordova project will not be a pure app project. Hope that helps. Cheers Florian -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.14 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJTIhdvAAoJEEceGbPdavl7LwAH/2tCr/NgpaD1PbygPEV1LVVP 9PGybptYEFX95eBZoZ6ZXGdOM5y1emBiNhvnoiQT8ciGYnnfqFo9yG+vlHUBbvnp HEDvzERoYPmZs7uHTLslvqXxpoPeFNbB8Zqk9bWKZdnCa8IRNmwCj87XzKYzMCYC PyMmpSx3/ypjYJOoyGDsDtJkSmKKX+ZyzETHL+A/N1rA/06Ic2xNhWlyqe64GDu/ N2D+wo2Qw0+DQa80733HXdHoJn/7Us4w0ed1TU58PAbRBMBhfPi69yTOH4LRgWeS Kq7EmyaEpKOl0n12sOQv65BOxC6Y5Oryka2wkefgTsSzzTIQo8jx8BHKXXXWJww= =eMLU -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From terri at zone12.com Thu Mar 13 21:55:26 2014 From: terri at zone12.com (Terri Oda) Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2014 16:55:26 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Virtual Mailman hackathon this weekend: Mailman Suite package! Message-ID: <06e23301a809b56b69a5f843e5105f7b@mail.toybox.ca> Hi all! Something we've done periodically is try to get everyone on IRC over the weekend, all working on Mailman at the same time. It's great time for people to show and get patches reviewed, chat, and get work done together. Everyone is invited! This weekend's hackathon, my plan is to try and get a Mailman suite package working. The final goal is to have it so that "pip install mailman-suite" will give you a full mailman suite install. The plan is to create the "one package to rule them all" version of Mailman Suite, with Mailman Core, Postorius, and Hyperkitty packaged together, preferably with Postorius and Hyperkitty sharing a django instance. I know basically nothing about python packaging, so help from people who do would be much appreciated (Barry?). Even the newest student is just as able to read docs and suggest things as I am on this particular project. :) I'm planning to be on #mailman on freenode around 10am PDT until 5pm PDT on Saturday the 15th, with possibly some more hours on Sunday depending on how things go and what else I have to get done. I may not manage to be actually at my computer every moment of that time since a friend is doing some filming at my house that day, but I'll try. Here's a short line of schedule in UTC. Everyone else, feel free to add your own planned hours here so we know when we overlap, or just drop by on the day if you're not sure of your schedule in advance. Terri : Sat 1700UTC - Sun 0100UTC : Mailman Suite packaging Terri From raj.abhilash1 at gmail.com Thu Mar 13 22:11:42 2014 From: raj.abhilash1 at gmail.com (Abhilash Raj) Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2014 02:41:42 +0530 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Virtual Mailman hackathon this weekend: Mailman Suite package! In-Reply-To: <06e23301a809b56b69a5f843e5105f7b@mail.toybox.ca> References: <06e23301a809b56b69a5f843e5105f7b@mail.toybox.ca> Message-ID: <53221F0E.3020701@gmail.com> Hi all, On Friday 14 March 2014 02:25 AM, Terri Oda wrote: > Hi all! > > Something we've done periodically is try to get everyone on IRC over the > weekend, all working on Mailman at the same time. It's great time for > people to show and get patches reviewed, chat, and get work done > together. Everyone is invited! > > This weekend's hackathon, my plan is to try and get a Mailman suite > package working. The final goal is to have it so that "pip install > mailman-suite" will give you a full mailman suite install. The plan is > to create the "one package to rule them all" version of Mailman Suite, > with Mailman Core, Postorius, and Hyperkitty packaged together, > preferably with Postorius and Hyperkitty sharing a django instance. > > I know basically nothing about python packaging, so help from people who > do would be much appreciated (Barry?). Even the newest student is just > as able to read docs and suggest things as I am on this particular > project. :) > > I'm planning to be on #mailman on freenode around 10am PDT until 5pm PDT > on Saturday the 15th, with possibly some more hours on Sunday depending > on how things go and what else I have to get done. I may not manage > to be actually at my computer every moment of that time since a friend > is doing some filming at my house that day, but I'll try. > > > Here's a short line of schedule in UTC. Everyone else, feel free to add > your own planned hours here so we know when we overlap, or just drop by > on the day if you're not sure of your schedule in advance. > > Terri : Sat 1700UTC - Sun 0100UTC : Mailman Suite packaging Abhilash(maxking) : Sat 0530UTC - 1430UTC : Finish off the last bits of OpenPGP integration to mailman Also anyone can use this website[1] to check for overlapping timings for people across globe with different timezones(guess it allows for max 12 zones at a time). [1]: http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/meeting.html > > Terri > > > _______________________________________________ > Mailman-Developers mailing list > Mailman-Developers at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers > Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 > Searchable Archives: > http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-developers%40python.org/ > Unsubscribe: > https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-developers/raj.abhilash1%40gmail.com > > > Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 thanks, Abhilash Raj -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 880 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From barry at list.org Thu Mar 13 22:13:38 2014 From: barry at list.org (Barry Warsaw) Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2014 17:13:38 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Virtual Mailman hackathon this weekend: Mailman Suite package! In-Reply-To: <06e23301a809b56b69a5f843e5105f7b@mail.toybox.ca> References: <06e23301a809b56b69a5f843e5105f7b@mail.toybox.ca> Message-ID: <20140313171338.5e9e2354@limelight.wooz.org> On Mar 13, 2014, at 04:55 PM, Terri Oda wrote: >Something we've done periodically is try to get everyone on IRC over the >weekend, all working on Mailman at the same time. It's great time for people >to show and get patches reviewed, chat, and get work done together. Everyone >is invited! Great idea, and I love the plan to put together a meta package. I'll probably also continue working through core merge proposals and bugs. Right now, I'm fairly free on Saturday, so I will be on IRC as much as possible. I'm UTC-4 so will overlap at least part of the hours Terri proposed. -Barry From milapbhojak.exe at gmail.com Thu Mar 13 20:44:17 2014 From: milapbhojak.exe at gmail.com (Milap Bhojak) Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2014 01:14:17 +0530 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] GSOC 2014 Message-ID: Hello, I'm Milap Bhojak. I'm looking for Gsoc this year. PSF is the one of my favorite organization (Of course) for every Py dev. :). i'm Contributor at VideoLAN (VLC Media Player). i'm interested in Continuous integration tool for the Mailman suite and Mailman command line client projects could any one guide me ? -- Thanks, Milap Bhojak | Google Developers Group - Gandhinagar, Google India | milapbhojak.exe at gmail.com | +91-9898855075 From raj.abhilash1 at gmail.com Fri Mar 14 08:22:51 2014 From: raj.abhilash1 at gmail.com (Abhilash Raj) Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2014 12:52:51 +0530 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] GSOC 2014 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5322AE4B.2070806@gmail.com> Hi Milap, Thanks for choosing Mailman. You should get started by reading documentation online here[1] and then trying to setup your own mailman installation. If you have any problems in it you are free to ask any questions here or at #mailman on freenode irc for quick replies. About the projects you are interested in, I would suggest you to choose one project out of the two you mentioned as get started on your proposal asap. There are other students interested in your project as well and you should check archives of this mailing list and go through the discussions. On Friday 14 March 2014 01:14 AM, Milap Bhojak wrote: > Hello, > > I'm Milap Bhojak. I'm looking for Gsoc this year. PSF is the one of my > favorite organization (Of course) for every Py dev. :). i'm Contributor at > VideoLAN (VLC Media Player). i'm interested in Continuous integration tool > for the Mailman suite and Mailman command line client projects could any > one guide me ? > [1]: http://pythonhosted.org/mailman/src/mailman/docs/START.html [2]: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-developers%40python.org/ thanks, Abhilash Raj -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 880 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From rajeevs1992 at gmail.com Fri Mar 14 11:20:27 2014 From: rajeevs1992 at gmail.com (Rajeev S) Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2014 15:50:27 +0530 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] GSoC 2014 : Proposal for the Mailman CLI project Message-ID: Hi, I have submitted a proposal for the Mailman CLI project through melange.You can find it here https://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/proposal/review/student/google/gsoc2014/rajeevs1992/5629499534213120 (Organisation view only) I have gone through the suggestions by Stephen as comments to the proposal and revised the proposal accordingly. http://myfossblog.blogspot.in/2014/03/gsoc-proposal-to-gnu-mailman.html *Regards,Rajeev S* *Government Engineering College,Thrissur* *http://rajeevs.tk * From barry at list.org Fri Mar 14 16:08:27 2014 From: barry at list.org (Barry Warsaw) Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2014 11:08:27 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Getting mentor attention [was: Mailman SNMP support] In-Reply-To: <87k3c1o0c5.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> References: <87k3c1o0c5.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> Message-ID: <20140314110827.21290677@anarchist.wooz.org> On Mar 11, 2014, at 12:55 PM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: >Barry isn't official in GSoC, but he's head of the Mailman project and >a ranking demi-god in the Pytheon. Also crazy busy, so you may get a >polite brushoff. OTOH, he can probably solve Mailman problems in half >the time of anybody else. And if Barry asks for help, someone will >respond. I'm probably pretty useless about any GSoC specific questions. To the extent that I have any use at all, I am happy to discuss any technical detail about Mailman 3. In general, I prefer email, since I can usually block out some time to answer detailed questions, and the mailing list archives are a wonderful historical resource. I highly advise students to mine them, either via the mail.python.org interface, or my favorite, the Gmane NNTP interface (newsgroup: gmane.mail.mailman.devel). Pinging me on IRC (barry @ freenode: #mailman) is fine. I'm almost always online during weekdays approximately UTC 1300 - 2200 (we're in DST), but only a ping will get my attention. Don't be put off if I encourage you to take your questions to the mailing list. If I think the answer would be of general use to the developer community, that's often a better place than on an IRC channel only a small number of people participate in, and for which no good search options exist. Please be a little patient while waiting for me to respond. Steve's right, I'm crazy busy. But if you don't hear from me within 4 or 5 days, a polite ping can help me switch contexts. Cheers, -Barry From mark at msapiro.net Fri Mar 14 19:44:22 2014 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2014 11:44:22 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Virtual Mailman hackathon this weekend: Mailman Suite package! In-Reply-To: <53221F0E.3020701@gmail.com> References: <06e23301a809b56b69a5f843e5105f7b@mail.toybox.ca> <53221F0E.3020701@gmail.com> Message-ID: <53234E06.3020602@msapiro.net> On 03/13/2014 02:11 PM, Abhilash Raj wrote: > On Friday 14 March 2014 02:25 AM, Terri Oda wrote: >> Hi all! >> >> Something we've done periodically is try to get everyone on IRC over the >> weekend, all working on Mailman at the same time. It's great time for >> people to show and get patches reviewed, chat, and get work done >> together. Everyone is invited! Thanks for getting this started Terri. >> Here's a short line of schedule in UTC. Everyone else, feel free to add >> your own planned hours here so we know when we overlap, or just drop by >> on the day if you're not sure of your schedule in advance. >> >> Terri : Sat 1700UTC - Sun 0100UTC : Mailman Suite packaging > Abhilash(maxking) : Sat 0530UTC - 1430UTC : Finish off the last bits > of OpenPGP integration to mailman msapiro : Sat 1700UTC - Sat 2000UTC : Mostly lurking to try to learn -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 198 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From flo.fuchs at gmail.com Fri Mar 14 22:33:59 2014 From: flo.fuchs at gmail.com (Florian Fuchs) Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2014 22:33:59 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Virtual Mailman hackathon this weekend: Mailman Suite package! In-Reply-To: <06e23301a809b56b69a5f843e5105f7b@mail.toybox.ca> References: <06e23301a809b56b69a5f843e5105f7b@mail.toybox.ca> Message-ID: <532375C7.9060902@gmail.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 03/13/2014 09:55 PM, Terri Oda wrote: > Here's a short line of schedule in UTC. Everyone else, feel free > to add your own planned hours here so we know when we overlap, or > just drop by on the day if you're not sure of your schedule in > advance. > > Terri : Sat 1700UTC - Sun 0100UTC : Mailman Suite packaging Florian: Sat 1600UTC - 2000UTC - plus possibly some more time a little later in the evening: Mailman Suite packaging / work on my Postorius "additional email addresses" branch. See you tomorrow! Florian -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.14 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJTI3XEAAoJEEceGbPdavl7QP8H/3Es3LgPE4KQmSg25TSoRcsn 5D4VYQ10gGT74kl1VirQSQaoyL2FWXxkOHK+hS+U4vxPClHorF8FCOhztrJ22aIp uNteGnrvld34aEfPrknTvrOCmZ4+bWDwrFo1yZH0GEMiANuQD+IGENOLfdPkib7U NCBU8SCPE5aT+XA7huY8nZKPr/P/x2K4UMqF97T+loc/KZapD2/pIzRPzYAK7bs2 r0AqfE0+yyb9l9eMybwwVZN+L4u2ahu3YOeDkvlXlqsmc9U8E1pstEBDMeB9iCo1 sFDbTL7+zDzhkDb7T+gT7AgWYAvy8Mbr4QIduU4U8ms1BTbaeRnqnHSsJv4llW0= =wyy6 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From kxra at riseup.net Sat Mar 15 00:46:27 2014 From: kxra at riseup.net (=?UTF-8?B?S+G6j3Jh?=) Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2014 19:46:27 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Mailman 3 vs Groupserver vs Sympa In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks everyone for all of these answers! I've passed them on to the groupserver maintainer who has created this comparison chart: http://groupserver.org/groupserver/features/feature-comparison There are still some gaps to be filled and perhaps this could be the basis of a wikipedia page and Sympa could be added to the comparison as well. On Mon, Oct 21, 2013 at 10:54 AM, Ian Eiloart wrote: > Hi K?ra, > > Some additional answers, inline below. Most of your questions relate to > the web archiver, and Nico has answered some of those. In order to get all > the questions and answers in the same place (so people can see which > questions aren?t yet answered here), I?ve rolled Nico?s comments into this > reply. > > On 7 Oct 2013, at 03:38, K?ra wrote: > > > Hello, > > > > My name is K?ra and I am the technology director of the Free Culture > > Foundation as well as a campaigns organizer for the Free Software > > Foundation and we're in need up upgrading our mailing lists to a more > > web-friendly system. I'm doing research on newer list severs to see how > > they compare. So far Groupserver seems to provide everything, but if > > Mailman 3 is going to be released soon, we'd like to consider that as > well. > > > > I'm making a comparison chart and wanted to ask about Mailman 3 (and > > Postorius) features. Answers to any and all of the following with regards > > to Mailman 3 + Postorius would be super helpful: > > > > Can you post from the web interface? > yes > > Is there file upload support? > yes > > Is there now a search feature? Can it search multiple lists? > yes, yes > > Are there web feeds (atom or rss)? Generated from lists? searches? > threads? > > files? > Nico?s plugin API seems to be offering support for this. > > > Are posts and administration integrated into the web interface? > I think that site and list administration are not part of the hyperkitty > > Can you specify a posting rate restriction? > > I don?t know. > > > Is full css customization for the web interface supported? > > Is css customization for the email interface supported? > > Hyperkitty supports "themes". I?m guessing you?ll be able to roll your own. > > > Is there site-side logging? (as opposed to server side) > Logging (apart from web accesses) would be a Mailman responsibility. I?m > not sure what you mean by "site-side", but perhaps you?re after remote > reporting on a domain of yours hosted a third party at a remote site. > Again, that?s possible. It could be provided through a web interface, or > some other means. > > > Is there a link to the post in the web interface in the footer of > messages? > > That?ll require co-operation between Mailman and the web archive. But, if > the web archive URL is predictable, then I think Mailman will be able to do > this. > > > Now that users are more than just email addresses, can you request to > > contact a list member? > > Do you mean from their profile page, or from a list of members? > > > Can users have multiple email addresses? > > Yes, that?s a part of users being more than just email addresses. > > > Are there profile pages where you can see a summary of their latest > posts? > yes > > Can the web interface hide quoted text? > yes > > Are usage statistics provided? > > The Hyperkitty change log for 0.1 alpha says "show basic list info and > metrics". Certainly the Mailman 2 logs provide enough information from > which useful usage stats could be derived. If Hyperkitty doesn?t provide > the stats that you want, you?ll likely be able to get them from the log > files. > > > > Thanks! > > > > Also, did Mailman 2 already support LMTP and virtual domains or are those > > new? > > They?re new. Mailman 2 did have partial support of virtual domains, but > there was a restriction whereby no two domains could have a list with the > same name: so I can?t imagine that this would be useful. > > > > > Best, > > K?ra > > > > -- > > Board of Directors, Free Culture Foundation: www.freeculture.org > > Campaigns Organizer, Free Software Foundation: www.fsf.org > > > > Blog: http://kxra.info - StatusNet Microblog: http://identi.ca/kxra > > Email: kxra at freeculture.org - SMS: +1.617.340.3661 > > Jabber/XMPP: kxra at riseup.net - IRC: kxra @freenode @oftc @indymedia > > _______________________________________________ > > Mailman-Developers mailing list > > Mailman-Developers at python.org > > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers > > Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 > > Searchable Archives: > http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-developers%40python.org/ > > Unsubscribe: > https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-developers/iane%40sussex.ac.uk > > > > Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 > > -- > Ian Eiloart > Postmaster, University of Sussex > +44 (0) 1273 87-3148 > > -- Board of Directors, Free Culture Foundation: www.freeculture.org Campaigns Organizer, Free Software Foundation: www.fsf.org Blog: http://kxra.info - StatusNet Microblog: http://identi.ca/kxra Email: kxra at freeculture.org - SMS: +1.617.340.3661 Jabber/XMPP: kxra at riseup.net - IRC: kxra @freenode @oftc @indymedia From varunsharmalive at gmail.com Sat Mar 15 00:51:43 2014 From: varunsharmalive at gmail.com (varun sharma) Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2014 05:21:43 +0530 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Virtual Mailman hackathon this weekend: Mailman Suite package! In-Reply-To: <532375C7.9060902@gmail.com> References: <06e23301a809b56b69a5f843e5105f7b@mail.toybox.ca> <532375C7.9060902@gmail.com> Message-ID: I will be there too. After all, it's the project i've applied for :) varun : UTC 1500 to UTC 2300 On Sat, Mar 15, 2014 at 3:03 AM, Florian Fuchs wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > > > On 03/13/2014 09:55 PM, Terri Oda wrote: > > Here's a short line of schedule in UTC. Everyone else, feel free > > to add your own planned hours here so we know when we overlap, or > > just drop by on the day if you're not sure of your schedule in > > advance. > > > > Terri : Sat 1700UTC - Sun 0100UTC : Mailman Suite packaging > > Florian: Sat 1600UTC - 2000UTC - plus possibly some more time a little > later in the evening: Mailman Suite packaging / work on my Postorius > "additional email addresses" branch. > > See you tomorrow! > Florian > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.14 (GNU/Linux) > Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ > > iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJTI3XEAAoJEEceGbPdavl7QP8H/3Es3LgPE4KQmSg25TSoRcsn > 5D4VYQ10gGT74kl1VirQSQaoyL2FWXxkOHK+hS+U4vxPClHorF8FCOhztrJ22aIp > uNteGnrvld34aEfPrknTvrOCmZ4+bWDwrFo1yZH0GEMiANuQD+IGENOLfdPkib7U > NCBU8SCPE5aT+XA7huY8nZKPr/P/x2K4UMqF97T+loc/KZapD2/pIzRPzYAK7bs2 > r0AqfE0+yyb9l9eMybwwVZN+L4u2ahu3YOeDkvlXlqsmc9U8E1pstEBDMeB9iCo1 > sFDbTL7+zDzhkDb7T+gT7AgWYAvy8Mbr4QIduU4U8ms1BTbaeRnqnHSsJv4llW0= > =wyy6 > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > _______________________________________________ > Mailman-Developers mailing list > Mailman-Developers at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers > Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 > Searchable Archives: > http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-developers%40python.org/ > Unsubscribe: > https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-developers/varunsharmalive%40gmail.com > > Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 > From barry at list.org Sat Mar 15 19:03:56 2014 From: barry at list.org (Barry Warsaw) Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2014 14:03:56 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Moderation rules priority In-Reply-To: <87d2hqmsin.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> References: <8761nkni0p.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <20140312215950.4258fae6@anarchist.wooz.org> <87d2hqmsin.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> Message-ID: <20140315140356.7949c374@anarchist.wooz.org> On Mar 13, 2014, at 05:06 PM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: >I expressed myself poorly. The parameters of the decision logic given >the list of senders are different for the two rules so both rules are >needed. But I really think that determining the sender should be done >in one place by one set of principles, separated from the "to post or >to moderate" logic. Maybe we could use all_senders, member_senders, >and apparent_sender properties (where the last is Mailman's best guess >at who's reponsible for sending the mail for the purpose of >moderation), or perhaps just apparent_sender and sender_is_member >properties. This logic requires both the email message and the mailing list object. Mailman's Message class has both a `sender` and `senders` property, but the latter is the interesting one for this topic: The list will contain email addresses in the order determined by the configuration variable `sender_headers` in the `[mailman]` section. By default it uses this list of headers in order: 1. From: 2. envelope sender (i.e. From_, unixfrom, or RFC 2821 MAIL FROM) 3. Reply-To: 4. Sender: The problem is the destination mailing list. I don't think we can leave this to a rule because rules are by definition unordered and self-contained, so there's no guarantee -- and we shouldn't impose one -- that such a rule will get executed early enough. We *could* do it in the LMTP runner, but right now, that doesn't query for the mailing list object, since it's not needed in order to dump the message into the appropriate queue. I don't think we can do it in the queue runners, and the message could end up in different queues, so the LMTP runner would be the only common preprocessing possibility (currently, at least). > > I *think* the right solution may be to continue to keep the rules > > separate, but add an extra check to the nonmember-moderation rule, > > such that if any of the senders are members, then the rule cannot hit. > >This is horrible. You've already done that check in the Member rule. True, at least for the default processing chain. But these chains are configurable and extensible, so again, there's no guarantee that the member rule will even be run. >It's OK as a stop-gap, I don't really object applying to Aurelian's >patch in principle, because I think it should be fixed now. The >meta-rules about how to compose rulesets need discussion before doing >anything more invasive. We can definitely have that discussion, but I feel quite strongly that rules should be self-contained and unordered, with ordering imposed by the chain of links that rules are associated with. I agree though that for now Aurelian's patch is what we should do for now. -Barry -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 819 bytes Desc: not available URL: From terri at toybox.ca Sat Mar 15 19:29:01 2014 From: terri at toybox.ca (Terri Oda) Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2014 11:29:01 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Using git for mailman development during GSoC is NOT RECOMMENDED Message-ID: <53249BED.2070807@toybox.ca> I just added the following note to the wiki and I want to repeat it here: While it is possible to use a git mirror or other tools to use git for Mailman core and Postorius development, we DO NOT RECOMMEND USING GIT for GSoC. Merge requests need to happen on launchpad (that is the one way new code gets accepted into those projects), and previous GSoC students have found that the time required to make it all work is more than they anticipated. (We may one day switch to git, but it won't be happening this summer.) Sorry! I know our official stance for regular contributors is "use whatever as long as you can submit a launchpad merge request" but for GSoC students, you're on a short timeline that's going to be busier at the end than the beginning and experience says it's much safer to learn launchpad and use it from the get-go than risk time-consuming problems later in the process. Terri From barry at list.org Sat Mar 15 20:30:23 2014 From: barry at list.org (Barry Warsaw) Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2014 15:30:23 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Using git for mailman development during GSoC is NOT RECOMMENDED In-Reply-To: <53249BED.2070807@toybox.ca> References: <53249BED.2070807@toybox.ca> Message-ID: <20140315153023.10fff199@limelight.wooz.org> On Mar 15, 2014, at 11:29 AM, Terri Oda wrote: >Sorry! I know our official stance for regular contributors is "use whatever >as long as you can submit a launchpad merge request" but for GSoC students, >you're on a short timeline that's going to be busier at the end than the >beginning and experience says it's much safer to learn launchpad and use it >from the get-go than risk time-consuming problems later in the process. Thanks for sending this note Terri. To contributors and students: learning bazaar, if you already know git, shouldn't be that hard. There are differences of course, in both commands and model, but I think for most simple branches, it's easy to learn the few commands you'll need. Please also refer to these resources: http://bazaar.canonical.com/en/ https://help.launchpad.net/Code https://help.launchpad.net/Code/Review And of course you can ping us on #mailman on freenode. Cheers, -Barry From bgolla at g.clemson.edu Sun Mar 16 07:34:12 2014 From: bgolla at g.clemson.edu (Bhargav Golla) Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2014 02:34:12 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] [GSoC 2014] Proposal for Cordova App for GNU Mailman Admin Interface Message-ID: Hello After feedback on the mailing list regarding various doubts and questions I had, I have developed a proposal for Cordova App idea and have attached the same with this mail. I would be very much obliged if someone could share their views about this. Also, I have observed on the PSF GSoC page that it requires students to submit a patch to the sub-organization. I was wondering if I could receive any pointers regarding any issues that were highlighted for GSoC aspirants to solve during application period. If there is such, please provide me the information about it or I would be very much grateful if I could get any information about which issues I can target before the application period ends. Thanks -- Bhargav Golla M.S Computer Science Github | LinkedIN | Website -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: GNUMailman.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 145869 bytes Desc: not available URL: From stephen at xemacs.org Mon Mar 17 06:34:17 2014 From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull) Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2014 14:34:17 +0900 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Moderation rules priority In-Reply-To: <20140315140356.7949c374@anarchist.wooz.org> References: <8761nkni0p.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <20140312215950.4258fae6@anarchist.wooz.org> <87d2hqmsin.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <20140315140356.7949c374@anarchist.wooz.org> Message-ID: <877g7tl76u.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> Barry Warsaw writes: > I feel quite strongly that rules should be self-contained and > unordered, with ordering imposed by the chain of links that rules > are associated with. I don't understand what you're trying to say here. Are you saying that rules should not have a "rules_to_run_before_this_rule" field, but it's OK if a chain "rule_B, rule_A" is buggy because rule_A should be run before rule_B? Of course we should then fix the bug -- the point is that it is currently very easy for such bugs to occur, because rules may depend on metadata, and set/change metadata. Perhaps rules should be allowed to add new metadata, but not change existing metadata? I think I already mentioned that I have a difficulty with the concept of "*pure* Boolean with side effects", too. :-) N.B. As far as *I* am concerned, you can take your time about responding to this. I need to go review the docs and code on all this anyway. But I suspect that if *I'm* confused about these concepts, *others* may be too, and they're pretty fundamental to customizing and extending Mailman 3. From stephen at xemacs.org Mon Mar 17 06:42:27 2014 From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull) Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2014 14:42:27 +0900 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] [GSoC 2014] Proposal for Cordova App for GNU Mailman Admin Interface In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8761ndl6t8.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> Bhargav Golla writes: > Also, I have observed on the PSF GSoC page that it requires students to > submit a patch to the sub-organization. I like this one: https://bugs.launchpad.net/mailman/+bug/881320 Requires knowledge of gettext and the Python facilities for dealing with it (IIRC xgettext knows about Python now). I recommend searching Launchpad for the "mailman3" tag; Mailman 2 bugs are somewhat likely to be harder bugs, and definitely solving Mailman 2 bugs is not as useful for learning Mailman architecture and coding -- not to mention requiring you to check out and find your way around a rather different source tree. HTH, I gotta get back to work... From barry at list.org Mon Mar 17 15:43:34 2014 From: barry at list.org (Barry Warsaw) Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2014 10:43:34 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Moderation rules priority In-Reply-To: <877g7tl76u.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> References: <8761nkni0p.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <20140312215950.4258fae6@anarchist.wooz.org> <87d2hqmsin.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <20140315140356.7949c374@anarchist.wooz.org> <877g7tl76u.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> Message-ID: <20140317104334.447e1f9b@anarchist.wooz.org> On Mar 17, 2014, at 02:34 PM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: >I don't understand what you're trying to say here. Are you saying >that rules should not have a "rules_to_run_before_this_rule" field, >but it's OK if a chain "rule_B, rule_A" is buggy because rule_A should >be run before rule_B? Of course we should then fix the bug -- the >point is that it is currently very easy for such bugs to occur, >because rules may depend on metadata, and set/change metadata. I know you remember these diagrams: :) http://pythonhosted.org//mailman/src/mailman/docs/8-miles-high.html#basic-messaging-handling-workflow >Perhaps rules should be allowed to add new metadata, but not change >existing metadata? > >I think I already mentioned that I have a difficulty with the concept >of "*pure* Boolean with side effects", too. :-) I was being sloppy in my previous response. Rules either hit or miss. Their check() method is called and it must return True or False. They cannot depend on any other rule having been run before or after them, i.e. they are self-contained. The check() method gets a mailing list object, the message, and a metadata dictionary. Rules must not have a side-effect on either the mailing list or the message. They may have a side-effect on the metadata dictionary, but as you say above, they may only add new metadata, not delete or change existing metadata. They also can't refer to metadata from other rules, because you don't know what order rules are run in. After a message is accepted (and processed) by the LMTP server, it is dropped into the `incoming` queue. The incoming queue runner picks the message up and processes messages through a chain. By default this is the `default-posting-chain`. This chain is composed of list of rules and actions (parlance, a 'chain of links'). Each link in the chain contains a rule, an action, and a target. If the rule hits, the action is taken. If the rule misses, the next link in the chain is processed. Actions can be all kinds of things (see the interface for details), but it is often 'defer', which more or less acts like a rule miss in that the next link in the chain is processed. (The difference is that the chain processing infrastructure records which rules hit and which rules miss. In the default processing chain, there is an `any` rule which looks at the metadata recorded by the processing infrastructure, and *it* takes a `jump` action if any of the deferred rules have hit.) (Please note that this logic is embodied in the built-in chain, which by default is the chain that the incoming queue runner processes. Other chains do not usually have links of rules since their functionality is much simpler. E.g. the discard chain just writes a log message, fires an event, and exits, thus throwing away the message.) >N.B. As far as *I* am concerned, you can take your time about >responding to this. I need to go review the docs and code on all this >anyway. But I suspect that if *I'm* confused about these concepts, >*others* may be too, and they're pretty fundamental to customizing and >extending Mailman 3. Pictures help a lot here! :) If you want to see where the metadata added by the member and nonmember moderation rules gets used, look at the moderation chain. If either of those two rules hit, then processing jumps to the moderation chain. All the moderation chain does though is dispatch to some other chain (in parlance, it jumps to some other chain). Which chain it jumps to depends on the metadata written by one of those two rules, specifically the 'moderation_action'. This piece of metadata corresponds directly to the action that should be taken when a particular person posts to the mailing list. So if stephen@ posts and is a member and has an action of `discard`, then the moderation chain jumps to the discard chain described above. Let's make sure we have a whiteboard at Pycon. :) Cheers, -Barry -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 819 bytes Desc: not available URL: From aurelien at bompard.org Mon Mar 17 23:59:42 2014 From: aurelien at bompard.org (Aurelien Bompard) Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2014 19:59:42 -0300 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] MM3: message held reason Message-ID: Hey! On Mailman3, every "message held" notification has "XXX" as the reason. This comes from the HoldChain class in mailman/chains/hold.py, where "XXX" is hardcoded. I'd like to fix that. I think there could be a list in the message metadata to which each matching rule would add a short description of why it matched, like we currently have a list of matching rules in the msgdata['rule_hits'] variable. I'll make sure to mark these descriptions as i18n strings. Are you OK with that? Any trap I'm not seeing? Aur?lien From duffy at redhat.com Tue Mar 18 16:17:25 2014 From: duffy at redhat.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?M=E1ir=EDn_Duffy?=) Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2014 11:17:25 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Mailman 3 / Hyperkitty presentation at LibrePlanet 2014 Boston Message-ID: <53286385.8070109@redhat.com> Hi folks, Just a head's up that this weekend I'm going to be giving a presentation about Mailman 3 - mostly focused on Hyperkitty - at LibrePlanet in Boston this coming weekend. I'm going to give an overview of the design process, the implementation progress made, and also report on Karen Tang's work on the Hyperkitty UI for the Outreach Program for Women internship period that just finished up. It looks like the conference will be streaming live so if you want to watch and heckle me virtually, the talk is after lunchtime east coast time on Sunday: https://libreplanet.org/2014/live/ I'm intending to 'convert' the presentation into a blog post too so if you miss it and are curious I can link back to that once it's written (post-presentation.) ~m From barry at list.org Tue Mar 18 19:38:27 2014 From: barry at list.org (Barry Warsaw) Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2014 14:38:27 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Mailman 3 / Hyperkitty presentation at LibrePlanet 2014 Boston In-Reply-To: <53286385.8070109@redhat.com> References: <53286385.8070109@redhat.com> Message-ID: <20140318143827.70fbd97e@anarchist.wooz.org> On Mar 18, 2014, at 11:17 AM, M?ir?n Duffy wrote: >Just a head's up that this weekend I'm going to be giving a presentation >about Mailman 3 - mostly focused on Hyperkitty - at LibrePlanet in Boston >this coming weekend. I'm going to give an overview of the design process, the >implementation progress made, and also report on Karen Tang's work on the >Hyperkitty UI for the Outreach Program for Women internship period that just >finished up. Very cool! I do hope they make recordings available. I won't be able to watch live, but I would love to view it afterward. Cheers, -Barry From barry at list.org Tue Mar 18 20:19:57 2014 From: barry at list.org (Barry Warsaw) Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2014 15:19:57 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] MM3: message held reason In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20140318151957.7bbe8b76@anarchist.wooz.org> On Mar 17, 2014, at 07:59 PM, Aurelien Bompard wrote: >On Mailman3, every "message held" notification has "XXX" as the reason. This >comes from the HoldChain class in mailman/chains/hold.py, where "XXX" is >hardcoded. I'd like to fix that. I think there could be a list in the >message metadata to which each matching rule would add a short description of >why it matched, like we currently have a list of matching rules in the >msgdata['rule_hits'] variable. I'll make sure to mark these descriptions as >i18n strings. > >Are you OK with that? Any trap I'm not seeing? Yes, it would be pretty cool to implement this. The main reason I never did was because I couldn't quite work out a nice way to display multiple reasons given the rules for template interpolation. You'll notice the postheld.txt template has a single *indented* line containing $reason and that has implications for exactly what kind of string can go in there (e.g. if it's multiple lines, who's responsible for getting everything to line up correctly). Maybe that shouldn't be indented, but then the wrapping rules might interfere. If you can work out the display issues, keeping in mind an i18n'd postheld.txt template, and the fact that those templates can be replaced by a site or list admin, then I think your basic plan is on the right track. Cheers, -Barry From raj.abhilash1 at gmail.com Thu Mar 20 05:16:54 2014 From: raj.abhilash1 at gmail.com (Abhilash Raj) Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2014 09:46:54 +0530 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Git mirror for mailman In-Reply-To: <20140308200023.GB31712@sys4.de> References: <531ABC58.6030203@gmail.com> <20140308200023.GB31712@sys4.de> Message-ID: Hi Patrick, I see you haven't updated the git mirror that you put up for mailman. I also did send you my public key off the list. Thanks a lot for your help. On Sun, Mar 9, 2014 at 1:30 AM, Patrick Ben Koetter

wrote: > * Abhilash Raj : > > I was in a conversation with Barry yesterday to setup a unofficial git > > mirror for mailman since there are large number of people who use git as > > their primary vcs. I think it would encourage more people to contribute > > to mailman, if not through merge requests on lp, through small patches > > making of which is quite trivial in git I suppose. > > Seems we have an inofficial git repo now. Are there any opinions on who > should > be in control of the code, e.g. handle merge requests, etc.? AFAIK Barry > has > the last word on what gets to become Mailman 3 at the moment. I'd like to > move > on with the repo setup and clarify that. > > Thx > > p at rick > > -- > [*] sys4 AG > > https://sys4.de, +49 (89) 30 90 46 64 > Franziskanerstra?e 15, 81669 M?nchen > > Sitz der Gesellschaft: M?nchen, Amtsgericht M?nchen: HRB 199263 > Vorstand: Patrick Ben Koetter, Marc Schiffbauer > Aufsichtsratsvorsitzender: Florian Kirstein > > _______________________________________________ > Mailman-Developers mailing list > Mailman-Developers at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers > Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 > Searchable Archives: > http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-developers%40python.org/ > Unsubscribe: > https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-developers/raj.abhilash1%40gmail.com > > Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 > -- Abhilash Raj From p at sys4.de Thu Mar 20 06:35:25 2014 From: p at sys4.de (Patrick Ben Koetter) Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2014 06:35:25 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Git mirror for mailman In-Reply-To: References: <531ABC58.6030203@gmail.com> <20140308200023.GB31712@sys4.de> Message-ID: <20140320053525.GC1713@sys4.de> * Abhilash Raj : > Hi Patrick, > > I see you haven't updated the git mirror that you put up for mailman. I > also did send you my public key off the list. > Thanks a lot for your help. Terri sent a mail that discourages use of a GIT repo during GSoC. Barry wants a proxy. What I provided is a GIT repo that is not a read-only proxy. It does not fit either of the requirements. I'll see to provide a read-only proxy as soon as my time permits. Thanks a lot for your help. p at rick > > On Sun, Mar 9, 2014 at 1:30 AM, Patrick Ben Koetter

wrote: > > > * Abhilash Raj : > > > I was in a conversation with Barry yesterday to setup a unofficial git > > > mirror for mailman since there are large number of people who use git as > > > their primary vcs. I think it would encourage more people to contribute > > > to mailman, if not through merge requests on lp, through small patches > > > making of which is quite trivial in git I suppose. > > > > Seems we have an inofficial git repo now. Are there any opinions on who > > should > > be in control of the code, e.g. handle merge requests, etc.? AFAIK Barry > > has > > the last word on what gets to become Mailman 3 at the moment. I'd like to > > move > > on with the repo setup and clarify that. > > > > Thx > > > > p at rick > > > > -- > > [*] sys4 AG > > > > https://sys4.de, +49 (89) 30 90 46 64 > > Franziskanerstra?e 15, 81669 M?nchen > > > > Sitz der Gesellschaft: M?nchen, Amtsgericht M?nchen: HRB 199263 > > Vorstand: Patrick Ben Koetter, Marc Schiffbauer > > Aufsichtsratsvorsitzender: Florian Kirstein > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Mailman-Developers mailing list > > Mailman-Developers at python.org > > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers > > Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 > > Searchable Archives: > > http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-developers%40python.org/ > > Unsubscribe: > > https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-developers/raj.abhilash1%40gmail.com > > > > Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 > > > > > > -- > Abhilash Raj > _______________________________________________ > Mailman-Developers mailing list > Mailman-Developers at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers > Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 > Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-developers%40python.org/ > Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-developers/p%40sys4.de > > Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 -- [*] sys4 AG https://sys4.de, +49 (89) 30 90 46 64 Franziskanerstra?e 15, 81669 M?nchen Sitz der Gesellschaft: M?nchen, Amtsgericht M?nchen: HRB 199263 Vorstand: Patrick Ben Koetter, Marc Schiffbauer Aufsichtsratsvorsitzender: Florian Kirstein From rajeevs1992 at gmail.com Thu Mar 20 14:20:04 2014 From: rajeevs1992 at gmail.com (Rajeev S) Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2014 18:50:04 +0530 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] GSoC 2014 : Proposal for the Mailman CLI project In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi, Made a minor edit upon Meflin's comment, asking to change project title. http://myfossblog.blogspot.in/2014/03/yet-another-change.html *Regards,Rajeev S* *Government Engineering College,Thrissur* *http://rajeevs.tk * On Fri, Mar 14, 2014 at 3:50 PM, Rajeev S wrote: > Hi, > > I have submitted a proposal for the Mailman CLI project through > melange.You can find it here > > > https://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/proposal/review/student/google/gsoc2014/rajeevs1992/5629499534213120 > > (Organisation view only) > > I have gone through the suggestions by Stephen as comments to the proposal > and revised the proposal accordingly. > > http://myfossblog.blogspot.in/2014/03/gsoc-proposal-to-gnu-mailman.html > > > > *Regards,Rajeev S* > *Government Engineering College,Thrissur* > *http://rajeevs.tk * > From barry at list.org Thu Mar 20 14:26:33 2014 From: barry at list.org (Barry Warsaw) Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2014 09:26:33 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Moderation rules priority In-Reply-To: <22D9D0BE-E526-468C-8111-2EB13F7FDFB4@sussex.ac.uk> References: <8761nkni0p.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <20140312215950.4258fae6@anarchist.wooz.org> <87d2hqmsin.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <20140315140356.7949c374@anarchist.wooz.org> <877g7tl76u.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <20140317104334.447e1f9b@anarchist.wooz.org> <20140318151240.76540c58@anarchist.wooz.org> <22D9D0BE-E526-468C-8111-2EB13F7FDFB4@sussex.ac.uk> Message-ID: <20140320092633.5aada7ac@anarchist.wooz.org> On Mar 20, 2014, at 01:17 PM, Ian Eiloart wrote: >For me, the big win for spam prevention with mailing lists is the restriction >on posters: it?s what keeps mailing lists relatively spam free. Most sites >don?t like to bounce messages that they?ve previously accepted, so that means >that the spam gets held for moderation, which creates a lot of work for list >owners. If list bound mail can be rejected by the MTA at SMTP time, that >would save a lot of work for list owners. Agreed! I think it would be a great feature for MM3, and it's one of the many reasons why I think the LMTP delivery mechanism is better overall. -Barry -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 819 bytes Desc: not available URL: From iane at sussex.ac.uk Thu Mar 20 14:17:13 2014 From: iane at sussex.ac.uk (Ian Eiloart) Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2014 13:17:13 +0000 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Moderation rules priority In-Reply-To: <20140318151240.76540c58@anarchist.wooz.org> References: <8761nkni0p.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <20140312215950.4258fae6@anarchist.wooz.org> <87d2hqmsin.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <20140315140356.7949c374@anarchist.wooz.org> <877g7tl76u.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <20140317104334.447e1f9b@anarchist.wooz.org> <20140318151240.76540c58@anarchist.wooz.org> Message-ID: <22D9D0BE-E526-468C-8111-2EB13F7FDFB4@sussex.ac.uk> On 18 Mar 2014, at 19:12, Barry Warsaw wrote: > I see this was a private reply. Feel free to forward this on to the list if > you want. Thanks, Barry. I?ll have a go at that if I get time. For me, the big win for spam prevention with mailing lists is the restriction on posters: it?s what keeps mailing lists relatively spam free. Most sites don?t like to bounce messages that they?ve previously accepted, so that means that the spam gets held for moderation, which creates a lot of work for list owners. If list bound mail can be rejected by the MTA at SMTP time, that would save a lot of work for list owners. > On Mar 18, 2014, at 02:58 PM, Ian Eiloart wrote: > >> That page suggests that Mailman 3 won?t be able to reject, at LMTP time, a >> message based on the sender/recipient information. That means that the MTA >> has to accept a message for delivery, even if Mailman is then going to reject >> it because the sender isn?t permitted to post to the list, or even just >> because the list doesn?t exist. Is that the case? > > At the moment, yes, but if you're interested in working on this, here's a > rough sketch that might work: > > Amend LMTPRunner.process_message() to run the member-moderation and > nonmember-moderation rules. Probably rather than hard coding this, create a > short chain just for LMTP-acceptance processing. This would allow folks to > customize what criteria the LMTP server uses to decide whether to accept the > message or not. > > .process_message() knows the name of the mailing list the message is destined > for (via recipient inspection). It currently doesn't query the db for a > mailing list object because it doesn't need it, but that would be easy to add. > You've already got the message object, so just craft an empty metadata > dictionary for the chain processing. > > Probably make the link action for both rules LinkAction.stop so that the first > one to hit wins. Then check the moderation_action to decide what the > disposition should be. E.g. if Action.reject or Action.discard, you can issue > the appropriate LMTP response code. If it's Action.hold, Action.accept, or > Action.defer, accept the message at LMTP time and enqueue the message for full > processing. > > Cheers, > -Barry -- Ian Eiloart Postmaster, University of Sussex +44 (0) 1273 87-3148 From jimpop at gmail.com Thu Mar 20 18:10:55 2014 From: jimpop at gmail.com (Jim Popovitch) Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2014 13:10:55 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Moderation rules priority In-Reply-To: <22D9D0BE-E526-468C-8111-2EB13F7FDFB4@sussex.ac.uk> References: <8761nkni0p.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <20140312215950.4258fae6@anarchist.wooz.org> <87d2hqmsin.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <20140315140356.7949c374@anarchist.wooz.org> <877g7tl76u.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <20140317104334.447e1f9b@anarchist.wooz.org> <20140318151240.76540c58@anarchist.wooz.org> <22D9D0BE-E526-468C-8111-2EB13F7FDFB4@sussex.ac.uk> Message-ID: On Thu, Mar 20, 2014 at 9:17 AM, Ian Eiloart wrote: > > For me, the big win for spam prevention with mailing lists is the restriction on posters: it's what keeps mailing lists relatively spam free. Most sites don't like to bounce messages that they've previously accepted, so that means that the spam gets held for moderation, which creates a lot of work for list owners. If list bound mail can be rejected by the MTA at SMTP time, that would save a lot of work for list owners. Sorry, haven't been following along... I discussed this several months back on the main list. https://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2013-August/075523.html Basically I hacked a copy of find_member into scripts/check_subscriber: (http://paste.debian.net/hidden/c36ff81c/ ) check_subscriber is called by multiple postfix tcp_tables (one per list post addr in master.cf), such that incoming emails are checked against the membership list, and smtp rejected if not subscribed. Let me know if you want more details. -Jim P. From jimpop at gmail.com Thu Mar 20 21:48:19 2014 From: jimpop at gmail.com (Jim Popovitch) Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2014 16:48:19 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Moderation rules priority In-Reply-To: References: <8761nkni0p.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <20140312215950.4258fae6@anarchist.wooz.org> <87d2hqmsin.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <20140315140356.7949c374@anarchist.wooz.org> <877g7tl76u.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <20140317104334.447e1f9b@anarchist.wooz.org> <20140318151240.76540c58@anarchist.wooz.org> <22D9D0BE-E526-468C-8111-2EB13F7FDFB4@sussex.ac.uk> Message-ID: On Thu, Mar 20, 2014 at 1:10 PM, Jim Popovitch wrote: > On Thu, Mar 20, 2014 at 9:17 AM, Ian Eiloart wrote: >> >> For me, the big win for spam prevention with mailing lists is the restriction on posters: it's what keeps mailing lists relatively spam free. Most sites don't like to bounce messages that they've previously accepted, so that means that the spam gets held for moderation, which creates a lot of work for list owners. If list bound mail can be rejected by the MTA at SMTP time, that would save a lot of work for list owners. > > Sorry, haven't been following along... > > I discussed this several months back on the main list. > https://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2013-August/075523.html > > Basically I hacked a copy of find_member into scripts/check_subscriber: > (http://paste.debian.net/hidden/c36ff81c/ ) > > check_subscriber is called by multiple postfix tcp_tables (one per > list post addr in master.cf), such that incoming emails are checked > against the membership list, and smtp rejected if not subscribed. > Let me know if you want more details. fyi.. I've pushed this to launchpad (2.1), and included a README (yea!!) http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~jimpop/mailman/check_subscriber/revision/1451 -Jim P. From willey at washington.edu Fri Mar 21 22:26:35 2014 From: willey at washington.edu (Stephen Willey Mats Mats) Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2014 14:26:35 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] small logging change for ListAdmin.py Message-ID: Please consider this small logging change. This helps trace issues, or claimed issues, with message moderation. Also, it adds symmetry with many of the messages that log mail going into a moderated state. Patch is against 2.1.17 thanks, steve --- ListAdmin.py 2013-12-12 19:40:27.276252413 -0800 +++ /usr/local/mailman/Mailman/ListAdmin.py 2014-03-21 11:59:50.826700290 -0700 @@ -285,8 +285,8 @@ # message directly here can lead to a huge delay in web # turnaround. Log the moderation and add a header. msg['X-Mailman-Approved-At'] = email.Utils.formatdate(localtime=1) - syslog('vette', 'held message approved, message-id: %s', - msg.get('message-id', 'n/a')) + syslog('vette', '%s held message approved, message-id: %s', + self.internal_name(), msg.get('message-id', 'n/a')) # Stick the message back in the incoming queue for further # processing. inq = get_switchboard(mm_cfg.INQUEUE_DIR) From mark at msapiro.net Fri Mar 21 23:42:22 2014 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2014 15:42:22 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] small logging change for ListAdmin.py In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <532CC04E.5080200@msapiro.net> On 03/21/2014 02:26 PM, Stephen Willey Mats Mats wrote: > > Please consider this small logging change. Follow the progress of this at . -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From iane at sussex.ac.uk Tue Mar 25 17:34:39 2014 From: iane at sussex.ac.uk (Ian Eiloart) Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2014 16:34:39 +0000 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Moderation rules priority In-Reply-To: References: <8761nkni0p.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <20140312215950.4258fae6@anarchist.wooz.org> <87d2hqmsin.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <20140315140356.7949c374@anarchist.wooz.org> <877g7tl76u.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <20140317104334.447e1f9b@anarchist.wooz.org> <20140318151240.76540c58@anarchist.wooz.org> <22D9D0BE-E526-468C-8111-2EB13F7FDFB4@sussex.ac.uk> Message-ID: <80EA2359-2CCE-4A82-B275-D9225E490195@sussex.ac.uk> Hi, That?s interesting. Is it a script that can be called from the command line? If so, maybe Exim could call it directly, instead of using an LMTP callout. On 20 Mar 2014, at 17:10, Jim Popovitch wrote: > On Thu, Mar 20, 2014 at 9:17 AM, Ian Eiloart wrote: >> >> For me, the big win for spam prevention with mailing lists is the restriction on posters: it's what keeps mailing lists relatively spam free. Most sites don't like to bounce messages that they've previously accepted, so that means that the spam gets held for moderation, which creates a lot of work for list owners. If list bound mail can be rejected by the MTA at SMTP time, that would save a lot of work for list owners. > > Sorry, haven't been following along... > > I discussed this several months back on the main list. > https://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2013-August/075523.html > > Basically I hacked a copy of find_member into scripts/check_subscriber: > (http://paste.debian.net/hidden/c36ff81c/ ) > > check_subscriber is called by multiple postfix tcp_tables (one per > list post addr in master.cf), such that incoming emails are checked > against the membership list, and smtp rejected if not subscribed. > Let me know if you want more details. > > -Jim P. > _______________________________________________ > Mailman-Developers mailing list > Mailman-Developers at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers > Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 > Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-developers%40python.org/ > Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-developers/iane%40sussex.ac.uk > > Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 -- Ian Eiloart Postmaster, University of Sussex +44 (0) 1273 87-3148 From jimpop at gmail.com Tue Mar 25 19:01:49 2014 From: jimpop at gmail.com (Jim Popovitch) Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2014 14:01:49 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Moderation rules priority In-Reply-To: <80EA2359-2CCE-4A82-B275-D9225E490195@sussex.ac.uk> References: <8761nkni0p.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <20140312215950.4258fae6@anarchist.wooz.org> <87d2hqmsin.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <20140315140356.7949c374@anarchist.wooz.org> <877g7tl76u.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <20140317104334.447e1f9b@anarchist.wooz.org> <20140318151240.76540c58@anarchist.wooz.org> <22D9D0BE-E526-468C-8111-2EB13F7FDFB4@sussex.ac.uk> <80EA2359-2CCE-4A82-B275-D9225E490195@sussex.ac.uk> Message-ID: On Tue, Mar 25, 2014 at 12:34 PM, Ian Eiloart wrote: > Hi, > > That's interesting. Is it a script that can be called from the command line? It is exactly a script that is called from the command line. Postfix "spawn" service listens on an IP and spawns a process, and returns the output back to postfix. I'm sure it could be coaxed to work with Exim, but I am not the one who would know how. -Jim P. From kxra at riseup.net Tue Mar 25 22:48:11 2014 From: kxra at riseup.net (=?UTF-8?B?S+G6j3Jh?=) Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2014 17:48:11 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Testing MM3 Message-ID: Is there a page documenting how to start testing MM3 with postorius+hyperkitty and how to upgrade from MM2? -- Board of Directors, Free Culture Foundation: www.freeculture.org Blog: http://kxra.info - StatusNet Microblog: http://identi.ca/kxra Email: kxra at freeculture.org - SMS: +1.617.340.3661 Jabber/XMPP: kxra at riseup.net - IRC: kxra @freenode @oftc @indymedia From duffy at redhat.com Wed Mar 26 12:57:51 2014 From: duffy at redhat.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?M=E1ir=EDn_Duffy?=) Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2014 07:57:51 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Hyperkitty usability testing at SpinachCon (LibrePlanet 2014) Message-ID: <5332C0BF.2040708@redhat.com> Hi folks, One of the events affiliated with LibrePlanet this past weekend was an event called 'SpinachCon' (so named because letting projects know about usability bugs is helpful, like pointing out spinach in a friend's teeth. :) ) My colleague Ryan Lerch and I hosted a Hyperkitty table at SpinachCon to get some Hyperkitty testing done - we had 8 test participants who worked through 6 tasks in the interface and then filled out a questionnaire about their experience. Hyperkitty did really well in testing. It scored high marks on look and feel, and users had very positive things to say in the freeform fields on the questionnaire. The most prominent issue throughout the tests and across users was search; Aur?lien has already been looking into search improvements, so I think we already knew this too :) I've written a high-level blog post summary of the results (which also talks about the mechanics of the testing as well) here: http://blog.linuxgrrl.com/2014/03/25/hyperkitty-at-the-0th-spinachcon I also transcribed and collated the raw test data here, which includes tester demographics/background as well as the content of their questionnaires and the per-task notes they took as they completed the test: https://fedorahosted.org/hyperkitty/wiki/SpinachConZero Our Hyperkitty OPW intern Karen Tang was able to come out too, and she caught the last couple of hours of SpinachCon. She's been working on making Hyperkitty's UI responsive & mobile-friendly, and is interested in working on the same for Postorious now that her internship is over, so you might be hearing from her soon regarding that. Deb Nicholson, who organized SpinachCon, mentioned that she's looking at doing another one in Boston in May, so I am planning to bring Hyperkitty (and potentially Postorious?) to that one as well! ~m From duffy at redhat.com Wed Mar 26 12:44:51 2014 From: duffy at redhat.com (=?UTF-8?B?TcOhaXLDrW4gRHVmZnk=?=) Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2014 07:44:51 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Mailman 3 / Hyperkitty presentation at LibrePlanet 2014 Boston In-Reply-To: <20140318143827.70fbd97e@anarchist.wooz.org> References: <53286385.8070109@redhat.com> <20140318143827.70fbd97e@anarchist.wooz.org> Message-ID: <5332BDB3.5040801@redhat.com> On 03/18/2014 02:38 PM, Barry Warsaw wrote: > Very cool! I do hope they make recordings available. I won't be able to > watch live, but I would love to view it afterward. I think they will make the recordings available since they have last years' up now, but I don't know when they'll come online. The slides I used are here: http://duffy.fedorapeople.org/presentations/libreplanet%202014/ When the video is available I will report back. Overall, the reception was *very* positive. Several folks who currently admin Mailman 2 servers asked how they could check out and help test Mailman 3. ~m From barry at list.org Wed Mar 26 17:06:39 2014 From: barry at list.org (Barry Warsaw) Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2014 12:06:39 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Mailman 3 / Hyperkitty presentation at LibrePlanet 2014 Boston In-Reply-To: <5332BDB3.5040801@redhat.com> References: <53286385.8070109@redhat.com> <20140318143827.70fbd97e@anarchist.wooz.org> <5332BDB3.5040801@redhat.com> Message-ID: <20140326120639.396c9304@anarchist.wooz.org> On Mar 26, 2014, at 07:44 AM, M?ir?n Duffy wrote: >I think they will make the recordings available since they have last years' >up now, but I don't know when they'll come online. The slides I used are >here: > >http://duffy.fedorapeople.org/presentations/libreplanet%202014/ > >When the video is available I will report back. The slides alone are really fantastic! I can't wait to see the video. >Overall, the reception was *very* positive. Several folks who currently admin >Mailman 2 servers asked how they could check out and help test Mailman 3. Yes, our goal at Pycon is to put together a "distribution" that ties core, Postorius, and HK together to make it really easy for folks to download, test, play with, and maybe even deploy. -Barry -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 819 bytes Desc: not available URL: From stephen at xemacs.org Thu Mar 27 09:30:42 2014 From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull) Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2014 17:30:42 +0900 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Testing MM3 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <87zjkcoxfx.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> K?ra writes: > Is there a page documenting how to start testing MM3 with > postorius+hyperkitty and how to upgrade from MM2? The relevant and up-to-date documentation is mostly in the docs in the source trees of the various projects. Some effort has been made to update the wiki, but I doubt it's thorough. The Mailman sprint at PyCon in April is likely to spend time on this issue (hopefully only the 5 minutes needed to announce a previous success :-). From kxra at riseup.net Fri Mar 28 05:01:27 2014 From: kxra at riseup.net (=?UTF-8?B?S+G6j3Jh?=) Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2014 00:01:27 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Testing MM3 In-Reply-To: <87zjkcoxfx.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> References: <87zjkcoxfx.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> Message-ID: I keep hearing about the need for migration scripts, but all indicates that these do not exist yet (via blocking bug for the next MM3 beta). Is that true? Is there a way to keep tabs on the progress towards the beta 4 release? looking at launchpad, it looks like development and beta releases were steady up to the last beta. Is there a reason for that? On Thu, Mar 27, 2014 at 4:30 AM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: > K?ra writes: > > > Is there a page documenting how to start testing MM3 with > > postorius+hyperkitty and how to upgrade from MM2? > > The relevant and up-to-date documentation is mostly in the docs in the > source trees of the various projects. Some effort has been made to > update the wiki, but I doubt it's thorough. > > The Mailman sprint at PyCon in April is likely to spend time on this > issue (hopefully only the 5 minutes needed to announce a previous > success :-). > > -- Board of Directors, Free Culture Foundation: www.freeculture.org Campaigns Organizer, Free Software Foundation: www.fsf.org Blog: http://kxra.info - StatusNet Microblog: http://identi.ca/kxra Email: kxra at freeculture.org - SMS: +1.617.340.3661 Jabber/XMPP: kxra at riseup.net - IRC: kxra @freenode @oftc @indymedia From stephen at xemacs.org Fri Mar 28 06:04:44 2014 From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull) Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2014 14:04:44 +0900 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Testing MM3 In-Reply-To: References: <87zjkcoxfx.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> Message-ID: <87ioqyq5g3.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> K?ra writes: > I keep hearing about the need for migration scripts, but all > indicates that these do not exist yet (via blocking bug for the > next MM3 beta). Is that true? Yup. It's not hard, if you have the skills necessary to setup a current Mailman 3 beta installation, you almost certainly have the skills to migrate Mailman 2 lists to a Mailman 3 installation (perhaps with consultation here!) Obviously, we can't require even that level of skill in a public release, so the scripts are a blocker. But such scripts are a non-trivial exercise even when what they implement is "easy": they need documentation, tests, and intelligible error and warning messages. > Is there a way to keep tabs on the progress towards the beta 4 > release? looking at launchpad, it looks like development and beta > releases were steady up to the last beta. Is there a reason for > that? I'm not sure what you're asking. From kxra at riseup.net Fri Mar 28 06:10:07 2014 From: kxra at riseup.net (=?UTF-8?B?S+G6j3Jh?=) Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2014 01:10:07 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Testing MM3 In-Reply-To: <87ioqyq5g3.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> References: <87zjkcoxfx.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <87ioqyq5g3.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> Message-ID: On Fri, Mar 28, 2014 at 1:04 AM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: > K?ra writes: > > > I keep hearing about the need for migration scripts, but all > > indicates that these do not exist yet (via blocking bug for the > > next MM3 beta). Is that true? > > Yup. It's not hard, if you have the skills necessary to setup a > current Mailman 3 beta installation, you almost certainly have the > skills to migrate Mailman 2 lists to a Mailman 3 installation (perhaps > with consultation here!) > Well, I haven't done either of those yet, but I'd love some help doing so! If you or anyone else has the time to assist, my irc handle is kxra on freenode, oftc, and gnome > Obviously, we can't require even that level of skill in a public > release, so the scripts are a blocker. But such scripts are a > non-trivial exercise even when what they implement is "easy": they > need documentation, tests, and intelligible error and warning > messages. > > > Is there a way to keep tabs on the progress towards the beta 4 > > release? looking at launchpad, it looks like development and beta > > releases were steady up to the last beta. Is there a reason for > > that? > > I'm not sure what you're asking. > > just how i can keep track of the work being done towards the next beta release. like a page which lists the tasks that need to be done and where they stand. Thanks! -- Board of Directors, Free Culture Foundation: www.freeculture.org Blog: http://kxra.info - StatusNet Microblog: http://identi.ca/kxra Email: kxra at freeculture.org - SMS: +1.617.340.3661 Jabber/XMPP: kxra at riseup.net - IRC: kxra @freenode @oftc @indymedia From stephen at xemacs.org Fri Mar 28 09:11:52 2014 From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull) Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2014 17:11:52 +0900 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Testing MM3 In-Reply-To: References: <87zjkcoxfx.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <87ioqyq5g3.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> Message-ID: <87eh1mpws7.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> K?ra writes: > Well, I haven't done either of those yet, but I'd love some help > doing so! If you or anyone else has the time to assist, my irc > handle is kxra on freenode, oftc, and gnome Hrm. I'm not in the habit of hanging around on IRC (even during GSoC when I should do so :-( ), but we could make an appointment -- I mostly am free to do what I want to when I want to for the next few weeks at least. I can generally handle anything 01:00 - 17:00 UTC. Handle is yaseppochi at freenode. > just how i can keep track of the work being done towards the next beta > release. like a page which lists the tasks that need to be done and where > they stand. I suspect the only reliable list is in Barry's head. The bug.launchpad.net/mailman page is pretty complete, but I'm not sure all the Mailman 3-related bugs are tagged "mailman3", and of those, I'm not sure the showstoppers are all tagged or priorities set on non-showstoppers. Barry would probably go through the tracker and update bugs if you ask. My suspicion is that his policy on such requests is "ask nicely - and repeat at polite intervals". ;-) I suppose I could do a lot of the legwork and save him some time, but I'm much better at helping people than doing homework. :-( From barry at list.org Fri Mar 28 14:35:32 2014 From: barry at list.org (Barry Warsaw) Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2014 09:35:32 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Testing MM3 In-Reply-To: References: <87zjkcoxfx.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> Message-ID: <20140328093532.06227b3e@anarchist.wooz.org> On Mar 28, 2014, at 12:01 AM, K?ra wrote: >I keep hearing about the need for migration scripts, but all indicates that >these do not exist yet (via blocking bug for the next MM3 beta). Is that >true? > >Is there a way to keep tabs on the progress towards the beta 4 release? >looking at launchpad, it looks like development and beta releases were >steady up to the last beta. Is there a reason for that? Aurelien submitted this merge proposal a while back: https://code.launchpad.net/~abompard/mailman/import21/+merge/192146 It improves the import command for migrating from MM2 to MM3. It's a big branch and needs some fixes, but it's generally pretty good and I have been slowly working my way through it. I should push my WIP merge to Launchpad for others to take a look at. Mostly I'm trying to flesh out the related tests. -Barry From barry at list.org Fri Mar 28 14:38:54 2014 From: barry at list.org (Barry Warsaw) Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2014 09:38:54 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Testing MM3 In-Reply-To: <87eh1mpws7.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> References: <87zjkcoxfx.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <87ioqyq5g3.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <87eh1mpws7.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> Message-ID: <20140328093854.1099b792@anarchist.wooz.org> On Mar 28, 2014, at 05:11 PM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: >Barry would probably go through the tracker and update bugs if you >ask. My suspicion is that his policy on such requests is "ask nicely >- and repeat at polite intervals". ;-) I suppose I could do a lot of >the legwork and save him some time, but I'm much better at helping >people than doing homework. :-( Last Pycon we did have a list of critical bugs, but I do think it's worthwhile to spend some time at the sprints reviewing our release milestone tasks. And yes, Steve pretty much nailed it there. :) I am on IRC weekdays from about 1300 UTC to about 2200 UTC (we're in dst now) but you will need to ping me to get my attention. barry at freenode#mailman -Barry