From terri at zone12.com Sat Feb 16 21:22:44 2013 From: terri at zone12.com (Terri Oda) Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2013 13:22:44 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] PyCon US 2013 sprint wiki page Message-ID: <511FEA94.4030102@zone12.com> Since I was already poking around in the wiki today, I set up a page for the PyCon 2013 sprint next month. I'm claiming that Barry and Florian are coming 'cause I'm pretty sure they said they were, but if the rest of you would like to announce your attendance or start suggesting things we should be discussing or hacking... here's the place to do it: http://wiki.list.org/display/DEV/PyCon+Sprint+2013 From terri at zone12.com Sat Feb 16 22:11:36 2013 From: terri at zone12.com (Terri Oda) Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2013 14:11:36 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] GSoC 2013 ideas page Message-ID: <511FF608.1000000@zone12.com> I've set up an ideas page for Mailman in GSoC 2013: http://wiki.list.org/display/DEV/Google+Summer+of+Code+2013 Right now it's seeded with some particularly clearly-defined ideas I received by email, but more ideas are better, so please feel free to add things or modify the page (or argue about why it should be modified here). I'll be going through my own bug queues and other emails later this afternoon. Things I'd like to see other than ideas: - a VM we could hand out to students to shortcut the process of setting up a development environment - A set of simple assignments for students to try as a quick "can I work with this codebase?" test. I'm thinking things like "add inline help to one of the options in postorius and post your code as a branch on launchpad" that aren't technically terribly technically challenging. The idea is to give the students a task they can complete and give us something to require in their applications as proof that they'll be able to work with us. It's basically "solve an easy bug and post your code" but we'll want things more specifically defined in case the queue of easy bugs isn't so hot when the students start arriving. From barry at list.org Sat Feb 16 23:46:02 2013 From: barry at list.org (Barry Warsaw) Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2013 17:46:02 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] PyCon US 2013 sprint wiki page In-Reply-To: <511FEA94.4030102@zone12.com> References: <511FEA94.4030102@zone12.com> Message-ID: <20130216174602.7ac5d470@anarchist.wooz.org> On Feb 16, 2013, at 01:22 PM, Terri Oda wrote: >Since I was already poking around in the wiki today, I set up a page for the >PyCon 2013 sprint next month. I'm claiming that Barry and Florian are coming >'cause I'm pretty sure they said they were, but if the rest of you would like >to announce your attendance or start suggesting things we should be >discussing or hacking... here's the place to do it: > >http://wiki.list.org/display/DEV/PyCon+Sprint+2013 Thanks for setting up both of these pages Terri. Yes, I will definitely be there. I've linked from the Pycon sprint page to this page: https://us.pycon.org/2013/community/sprints/mailman/ I've also added some sprint topics that I think would be great to work on. Tops of my list include: * Get Postorius feature complete enough to release * Port MM3 to Python 3 * MM2 -> MM3 import scripts Cheers, -Barry From follybeachris at gmail.com Sun Feb 17 01:31:51 2013 From: follybeachris at gmail.com (Chris Cargile) Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2013 19:31:51 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] GSoC 2013 ideas page In-Reply-To: References: <511FF608.1000000@zone12.com> Message-ID: I would like to narrow down and hone in on a few key points from my longer email moments ago: ---- I think Terri's email about GSoC is good in theory; the GSoC pages on the development homepage and linked to from there could use some work, and I am committing to begin addressing them, as of now ---- I think the "can I work with this" assessment is needed but I don't know exactly how to help but want to help very much ---- I am asking for some input regarding the best means for sharing the development environment image to be made available for interested contributors to mailman (.ISO? AWS image?) Thanks for your time! R/Chris On Sat, Feb 16, 2013 at 7:19 PM, Chris Cargile wrote: > Hi Terri (and others whom I have met yet): > As a newcomer, I would like to introduce myself to the team (aside from > Barry), since I have not previously been very active on the > mailman-development lists. Apart from having attended what I believe was > the most recent all-hands IRC meeting I really haven't chimed in much, and > most of what I have inquired/commented on has regarding installation and > where-to-dig-in stuff. > > Although this may seem a roundabout way of getting to a more substantive > point, I think it allows me to transition to Terri's points pretty easily: > as a newcomer to the MM3 playing field/GSoC, I think I can offer an > unbiased examination and reflection upon Terri's posting and suggestions > (not in respective order), as follows: > > 1) creation of a prove-your-skills-match or "can I work with this code > base" test would be of use as a self-assessment tool and/or possible aid > come time for GSoC mentoree applicant assessment. And to hopefully expand > on this a bit when I came into trying to grasp the architectural > fundamentals at work within Mailman without having examined the codebase, I > began reading through an article that Barry wrote in the AOSA book, > which was great for me (but may not be "necessary" for others) and was able > to take this on the go vs. needing my laptop to view source code, etc - > thought I should suggest linking it on either the wiki, or dev portal > somewhere > > 2) I was able to get a VM instance of MM3 runnng based on the a) *Mailman > in 5 mins tutorial* and b) a bug clarification/workaround Barry posted (following > our q&a in the IRC meeting in January). WRT development progress and the > outline of what's on the development roadmap, I struggled a little with > jumping right in (and was perhaps taking a direction altogether separate > from the consensus anyways) but I would like to: > - share my thoughts on the GSoC page (Terri linked to below); particularly > regarding the DEV home page and content for GSoC applicants (as disclosure, > I think I will be applying as one thereof in the near future) > - and I would be pleased to begin working on the sharing of an ISO or > other type of image that allows a quick initialization of the mailman > testing/development environment; I was thinking about approaching this from > a standpoint that AWS allows for easy virtual machine to run Ubuntu and it > worked for me getting a Mailman2 instance set up on AWSwith relative ease, going forward with setting up an AWS image (which > offers a WWW-accessible development instance, from the outset) > > I look forward to our future on these endeavors and learning how I can > best develop my skills, position myself as a better candidate for GSoC > mentorship (thru mailman or any other), and to seeing how I can propel the > project. > > Also, I would like to remotely attend the python sprint, if venue's > network connection allows > > See you soon - chris cargile > > On Sat, Feb 16, 2013 at 4:11 PM, Terri Oda wrote: > >> I've set up an ideas page for Mailman in GSoC 2013: >> >> http://wiki.list.org/display/**DEV/Google+Summer+of+Code+2013 >> >> Right now it's seeded with some particularly clearly-defined ideas I >> received by email, but more ideas are better, so please feel free to add >> things or modify the page (or argue about why it should be modified here). >> I'll be going through my own bug queues and other emails later this >> afternoon. >> >> Things I'd like to see other than ideas: >> - a VM we could hand out to students to shortcut the process of setting >> up a development environment >> - A set of simple assignments for students to try as a quick "can I work >> with this codebase?" test. >> >> I'm thinking things like "add inline help to one of the options in >> postorius and post your code as a branch on launchpad" that aren't >> technically terribly technically challenging. The idea is to give the >> students a task they can complete and give us something to require in their >> applications as proof that they'll be able to work with us. It's basically >> "solve an easy bug and post your code" but we'll want things more >> specifically defined in case the queue of easy bugs isn't so hot when the >> students start arriving. >> ______________________________**_________________ >> Mailman-Developers mailing list >> Mailman-Developers at python.org >> http://mail.python.org/**mailman/listinfo/mailman-**developers >> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 >> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/** >> mailman-developers%40python.**org/ >> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/**mailman/options/mailman-** >> developers/follybeachris%**40gmail.com >> >> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 >> > > From follybeachris at gmail.com Sun Feb 17 15:13:38 2013 From: follybeachris at gmail.com (Chris Cargile) Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2013 09:13:38 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] GSoC 2013 ideas page Message-ID: I tried sent an e-mail yesterday addressing on this (email subject) topic but could have done better as my emails did not seems to mesh well with the progress made earlier in a thread already in the archives: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-developers/2013-January/022568.html. To rescind my emails and re-align the thread with its course, I think a few points based on the thread linked here, would suffice and make the most sense: respective of the thread's points: a) not much to add here (..I cannot volunteer as a GSoC mentor, now) b,c) I do think working on bugs is manageable for students but have not contributed any commits on this end. Wanting to contribute to and familiarize myself with software development using a mature codebase and development environment, I did read the chapter in Barry's book and reviewed the developer home. I am more comfortable in Java/JS right now, but acquiring python is my personal commitment before summer hits and I hope to be contributing to this project. As a beginner, I would not be able to comment on whether students should contribute to design aspects of mailman, but I think a roadmap outlining which goals should be pursued in what order, would be helpful for obtaining new contributors' help a bit. I am familiarizing myself with the new feature details and exploring the bug queues to best become a contributor. on the matter of having a test-environment image for everyone, I found we could host the image almost for free on amazon, if needed, and they have utilities to ease the process of importing/exporting from/to amazon- and VMware- formats, if for some reason the group wanted amazon web service portability as a feature at some point, or wanted to collaborate towards developing an image. I mention this bc as I shared I had a live instance of MM2 up on an AWS machine, I also thought remote-desktop'ing into an AWS image which could then be exported might be easy enough and eliminates uploading large .ISO/.VM-DK files somewhere. I would be interested to know more about the format we'd use for creating and sharing an image and look forward to working with the team From sakuag333 at gmail.com Sun Feb 17 15:25:12 2013 From: sakuag333 at gmail.com (Sandesh Agrawal) Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2013 19:55:12 +0530 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] GSoC 2013 ideas page In-Reply-To: References: <511FF608.1000000@zone12.com> Message-ID: Hi I am interested in participating in gsoc-2013 in the "Boilerplate Stripper project" of mailman. I have good experience with python and django framework. I have set up mailman environment on my machine I also have good experience and familiarity with mailman source code and bazaar. I have also contributed to mailman by solving a bug and enjoyed it very much :) Please guide me through the next steps so that i can know more about the project and discuss it with the mentor. Cheers, Sandesh From terri at zone12.com Sun Feb 17 20:06:30 2013 From: terri at zone12.com (Terri Oda) Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2013 12:06:30 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] GSoC 2013 ideas page In-Reply-To: References: <511FF608.1000000@zone12.com> Message-ID: <51212A36.80303@zone12.com> First up, you're a bit early: we haven't even *applied* to be part of GSoC, let alone been accepted, and we're still at the point of trying to figure out what projects are feasible and what ones we have the necessary mentors for. So what I'd suggest for you right now: (1) Give us a week or two to refine those ideas before assuming they're actually suitable for a GSoC project and that we have the mentoring support necessary to do them. That one, to be honest, may be too small to be a complete GSoC project in and of itself. I expect it will have to be paired with a couple of other features before it'd be anywhere near 3 months of paid work. (2) Given that you have experience with django, I'd like to encourage you to consider some of the bigger projects in the interface. You've already done some bug fixes, why not try to tackle a full feature in Postorius? There's going to be less competition from other students for the more complex projects and way more motivation on our part to get them completed, so it actually improves your chances of being selected as a student if you get yourself ready to handle one of those. Terri On 13-02-17 7:25 AM, Sandesh Agrawal wrote: > Hi > I am interested in participating in gsoc-2013 in the "Boilerplate Stripper > project" of mailman. > > I have good experience with python and django framework. > I have set up mailman environment on my machine > I also have good experience and familiarity with mailman source code and > bazaar. > > I have also contributed to mailman by solving a bug and enjoyed it very > much :) > > Please guide me through the next steps so that i can know more about the > project and discuss it with the mentor. > > Cheers, > Sandesh > _______________________________________________ > Mailman-Developers mailing list > Mailman-Developers at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers > Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 > Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-developers%40python.org/ > Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-developers/terri%40zone12.com > > Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 > From sakuag333 at gmail.com Mon Feb 18 07:12:48 2013 From: sakuag333 at gmail.com (Sandesh Agrawal) Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 11:42:48 +0530 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] (no subject) Message-ID: While setting up postorius, i am getting the following error during this step sudo python setup.py develop as given in the link : http://pythonhosted.org/mailman/src/mailman/docs/WebUIin5.html -------------------------------------------------- Processing mocker-1.1.1.tar.bz2 error: Not a recognized archive type: /tmp/easy_install-xxvsrr/mocker-1.1.1.tar.bz2 ------------------------------------------------------ From flo.fuchs at gmail.com Mon Feb 18 21:26:22 2013 From: flo.fuchs at gmail.com (Florian Fuchs) Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 21:26:22 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] PyCon US 2013 sprint wiki page In-Reply-To: <20130216174602.7ac5d470@anarchist.wooz.org> References: <511FEA94.4030102@zone12.com> <20130216174602.7ac5d470@anarchist.wooz.org> Message-ID: <51228E6E.6020002@gmail.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Hi, On 02/16/2013 11:46 PM, Barry Warsaw wrote: > On Feb 16, 2013, at 01:22 PM, Terri Oda wrote: > >> Since I was already poking around in the wiki today, I set up a >> page for the PyCon 2013 sprint next month. I'm claiming that >> Barry and Florian are coming 'cause I'm pretty sure they said >> they were, but if the rest of you would like to announce your >> attendance or start suggesting things we should be discussing or >> hacking... here's the place to do it: >> >> http://wiki.list.org/display/DEV/PyCon+Sprint+2013 > > Thanks for setting up both of these pages Terri. Yes, I will > definitely be there. I'll be there, too. Flight's already booked and all... :-) > I've linked from the Pycon sprint page to this page: > > https://us.pycon.org/2013/community/sprints/mailman/ > > I've also added some sprint topics that I think would be great to > work on. Tops of my list include: > > * Get Postorius feature complete enough to release Absolutely! That's definitely my first goal. If there's some time left, I'd like to take a closer look at Hyperkitty and discuss ways to bring Postorius and HK closer together, especially their user models. Looking forward to see you guys there! Florian -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJRIo5JAAoJEAszfsgOAINuPiYH/3b3r8/JRipaAtDE0IJZCjhV 1Uru+ppoZOo8VPtUH7uJ3jAMQgGiJshebq5oQdEHUB9ZEoxDxqiqRX81V+O4641w ya34gmlgRXkMMlntlnQ7m+OxeJDCjug4kVUIBgrhpnEv/3MU4qBDryXVLSStnwTW M9/95otdygI2OnoPBiWI8+n0C2+8odvaHFZoBmPoHg2iL8NDQlDTGatnDdoQYxAA 2/nVzxreUU8I9vvDCk7f8ysz6DkQEYhGFhfQYtb2d9mvZbmCkOpZTVVFrpE/HRY0 4c4HYsXal6Vz9NGmUPAoHW9uxFbh6gGTQwQ0ArKGpSM0sUdzT3XCmML0WHZjzT4= =AUkq -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From flo.fuchs at gmail.com Mon Feb 18 21:44:25 2013 From: flo.fuchs at gmail.com (Florian Fuchs) Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 21:44:25 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] (no subject) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <512292A9.3050300@gmail.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Hello Sandesh, is it possible that bzip2 is not installed on your machine? Florian On 02/18/2013 07:12 AM, Sandesh Agrawal wrote: > While setting up postorius, i am getting the following error during > this step sudo python setup.py develop as given in the link : > http://pythonhosted.org/mailman/src/mailman/docs/WebUIin5.html > > -------------------------------------------------- Processing > mocker-1.1.1.tar.bz2 error: Not a recognized archive type: > /tmp/easy_install-xxvsrr/mocker-1.1.1.tar.bz2 > ------------------------------------------------------ > _______________________________________________ Mailman-Developers > mailing list Mailman-Developers at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers Mailman > FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Searchable Archives: > http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-developers%40python.org/ > Unsubscribe: > http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-developers/f%40state-of-mind.de > > Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 > - -- Florian Fuchs Heckmannufer 2 10997 Berlin 0176 - 206 408 12 030 - 301 367 56 flo.fuchs at gmail.com -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJRIpKpAAoJEAszfsgOAINu7mEIAMCB1aCpOlWXA5aWTNyYoNvA JWn5rxQd9vsKB5NM4yJv5/QRYsgX3DEfrHdiU53i8YiopLSZkL5FbWMsQ99J4a/C d6wT9y0NG4w73QZXW8rdqtVlNsBhigX69z96u0/iaQMqz581f0kDE8UvZ2llQDdm SPbWgBhUrR1avEApS7jP9mwuLWJPO/pZBud9CSzRneph0+kfyyEGzwck4GEfzhSs pZbsZZKbsl83/eKct8ixc3Opkq4akE81qa+egqYStpsd+b3Qw5yut+hvogsmI/kb fxWI6Ke6hyEkn0fy9y6auuKo5a05yUfggJLQ2KjojiPS0FCp2iSUPRFlPiumGjg= =kiya -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From sakuag333 at gmail.com Tue Feb 19 08:21:54 2013 From: sakuag333 at gmail.com (Sandesh Agrawal) Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2013 12:51:54 +0530 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <512292A9.3050300@gmail.com> References: <512292A9.3050300@gmail.com> Message-ID: bzip was not installed so i installed it, but still the error was not resolved. I am getting the same error again. Cheers, Sandesh On Tue, Feb 19, 2013 at 2:14 AM, Florian Fuchs wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > Hello Sandesh, > > is it possible that bzip2 is not installed on your machine? > > Florian > > > On 02/18/2013 07:12 AM, Sandesh Agrawal wrote: >> While setting up postorius, i am getting the following error during >> this step sudo python setup.py develop as given in the link : >> http://pythonhosted.org/mailman/src/mailman/docs/WebUIin5.html >> >> -------------------------------------------------- Processing >> mocker-1.1.1.tar.bz2 error: Not a recognized archive type: >> /tmp/easy_install-xxvsrr/mocker-1.1.1.tar.bz2 >> ------------------------------------------------------ >> _______________________________________________ Mailman-Developers >> mailing list Mailman-Developers at python.org >> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers Mailman >> FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Searchable Archives: >> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-developers%40python.org/ >> Unsubscribe: >> http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-developers/f%40state-of-mind.de >> >> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 >> > > - -- > Florian Fuchs > Heckmannufer 2 > 10997 Berlin > 0176 - 206 408 12 > 030 - 301 367 56 > flo.fuchs at gmail.com > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) > Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ > > iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJRIpKpAAoJEAszfsgOAINu7mEIAMCB1aCpOlWXA5aWTNyYoNvA > JWn5rxQd9vsKB5NM4yJv5/QRYsgX3DEfrHdiU53i8YiopLSZkL5FbWMsQ99J4a/C > d6wT9y0NG4w73QZXW8rdqtVlNsBhigX69z96u0/iaQMqz581f0kDE8UvZ2llQDdm > SPbWgBhUrR1avEApS7jP9mwuLWJPO/pZBud9CSzRneph0+kfyyEGzwck4GEfzhSs > pZbsZZKbsl83/eKct8ixc3Opkq4akE81qa+egqYStpsd+b3Qw5yut+hvogsmI/kb > fxWI6Ke6hyEkn0fy9y6auuKo5a05yUfggJLQ2KjojiPS0FCp2iSUPRFlPiumGjg= > =kiya > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > _______________________________________________ > Mailman-Developers mailing list > Mailman-Developers at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers > Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 > Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-developers%40python.org/ > Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-developers/sakuag333%40gmail.com > > Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 From sakuag333 at gmail.com Tue Feb 19 08:22:21 2013 From: sakuag333 at gmail.com (Sandesh Agrawal) Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2013 12:52:21 +0530 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] (no subject) In-Reply-To: References: <512292A9.3050300@gmail.com> Message-ID: I meant bzip2 On Tue, Feb 19, 2013 at 12:51 PM, Sandesh Agrawal wrote: > bzip was not installed so i installed it, but still the error was not > resolved. I am getting the same error again. > > Cheers, > Sandesh > > On Tue, Feb 19, 2013 at 2:14 AM, Florian Fuchs wrote: >> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >> Hash: SHA1 >> >> Hello Sandesh, >> >> is it possible that bzip2 is not installed on your machine? >> >> Florian >> >> >> On 02/18/2013 07:12 AM, Sandesh Agrawal wrote: >>> While setting up postorius, i am getting the following error during >>> this step sudo python setup.py develop as given in the link : >>> http://pythonhosted.org/mailman/src/mailman/docs/WebUIin5.html >>> >>> -------------------------------------------------- Processing >>> mocker-1.1.1.tar.bz2 error: Not a recognized archive type: >>> /tmp/easy_install-xxvsrr/mocker-1.1.1.tar.bz2 >>> ------------------------------------------------------ >>> _______________________________________________ Mailman-Developers >>> mailing list Mailman-Developers at python.org >>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers Mailman >>> FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Searchable Archives: >>> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-developers%40python.org/ >>> Unsubscribe: >>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-developers/f%40state-of-mind.de >>> >>> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 >>> >> >> - -- >> Florian Fuchs >> Heckmannufer 2 >> 10997 Berlin >> 0176 - 206 408 12 >> 030 - 301 367 56 >> flo.fuchs at gmail.com >> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- >> Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) >> Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ >> >> iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJRIpKpAAoJEAszfsgOAINu7mEIAMCB1aCpOlWXA5aWTNyYoNvA >> JWn5rxQd9vsKB5NM4yJv5/QRYsgX3DEfrHdiU53i8YiopLSZkL5FbWMsQ99J4a/C >> d6wT9y0NG4w73QZXW8rdqtVlNsBhigX69z96u0/iaQMqz581f0kDE8UvZ2llQDdm >> SPbWgBhUrR1avEApS7jP9mwuLWJPO/pZBud9CSzRneph0+kfyyEGzwck4GEfzhSs >> pZbsZZKbsl83/eKct8ixc3Opkq4akE81qa+egqYStpsd+b3Qw5yut+hvogsmI/kb >> fxWI6Ke6hyEkn0fy9y6auuKo5a05yUfggJLQ2KjojiPS0FCp2iSUPRFlPiumGjg= >> =kiya >> -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- >> _______________________________________________ >> Mailman-Developers mailing list >> Mailman-Developers at python.org >> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers >> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 >> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-developers%40python.org/ >> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-developers/sakuag333%40gmail.com >> >> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 From mayankbhola at gmail.com Tue Feb 19 17:32:32 2013 From: mayankbhola at gmail.com (mayank bhola) Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2013 22:02:32 +0530 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] gsoc 2013 guidance Message-ID: Hello there, I would like to contribute to mailman for gsoc 2013 , please guide me for the same on which type of skills we need to have and show along with proposal and other details -- Regards *Mayank Bhola* From terri at zone12.com Tue Feb 19 18:55:39 2013 From: terri at zone12.com (Terri Oda) Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2013 10:55:39 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] GSoC 2013 ideas page In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5123BC9B.5080502@zone12.com> Before I answer anything: Chris, I noticed you've only just signed up for the wiki, so I've granted you editor access now. If you were wondering why there was no edit button before, now you know! On 02/17/2013 07:13 AM, Chris Cargile wrote: > on the matter of having a test-environment image for everyone, I found we > could host the image almost for free on amazon, if needed, and they have > utilities to ease the process of importing/exporting from/to amazon- and > VMware- formats, if for some reason the group wanted amazon web service > portability as a feature at some point, or wanted to collaborate towards > developing an image. I mention this bc as I shared I had a live instance > of MM2 up on an AWS machine, I also thought remote-desktop'ing into an AWS > image which could then be exported might be easy enough and eliminates > uploading large .ISO/.VM-DK files somewhere. > > I would be interested to know more about the format we'd use for creating > and sharing an image and look forward to working with the team I really like the idea of having a Mailman 3 AWS machine in general. It'd be really awesome to be able to have people just spin up a working Mailman 3 instance to help answer their own questions about the state of the UI and whatnot. So +1 to that if you're interested in setting it up and just linking it from the wiki. I'm a bit hesitant to assume that it'll be useful for the students since cloud computing costs money, and if you're a prospective GSoC student it might not seem worthwhile to outlay money to spin up an instance until you've actually been accepted and know you'll be paid. So ideally, we'd also want to have a downloadable VM that anyone could use. I personally can provide temporary hosting if I ask my sysadmin nicely so we know to keep an eye on traffic, and we might be able to find something more permanent with python.org or others, so for now, if you're interested in setting up a giant file, assume that we'll have somewhere to put it and go ahead. Terri From sakuag333 at gmail.com Wed Feb 20 05:04:06 2013 From: sakuag333 at gmail.com (Sandesh Agrawal) Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2013 09:34:06 +0530 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] (no subject) In-Reply-To: References: <512292A9.3050300@gmail.com> Message-ID: I managed to get postorius setup by using python 2.6 . Python 2.7 was causing all the trouble(don't know why?) But as mentioned in the link : http://pythonhosted.org/mailman/src/mailman/docs/WebUIin5.html i need to go into dev_setup directory , but there is no such directory formed. Is there anything else needed to be done ? From barry at list.org Wed Feb 20 14:19:38 2013 From: barry at list.org (Barry Warsaw) Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2013 08:19:38 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] (no subject) In-Reply-To: References: <512292A9.3050300@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20130220081938.6cbe94b2@anarchist.wooz.org> On Feb 20, 2013, at 09:34 AM, Sandesh Agrawal wrote: >I managed to get postorius setup by using python 2.6 . Python 2.7 was >causing all the trouble(don't know why?) How was Python 2.6 and 2.7 installed? It sounds like you were missing an important module. Maybe that's available in your 2.6 installation but not your 2.7 installation? -Barry From sakuag333 at gmail.com Thu Feb 21 00:49:09 2013 From: sakuag333 at gmail.com (Sandesh Agrawal) Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2013 05:19:09 +0530 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <20130220081938.6cbe94b2@anarchist.wooz.org> References: <512292A9.3050300@gmail.com> <20130220081938.6cbe94b2@anarchist.wooz.org> Message-ID: I managed to get postorius running after much efforts, and i would suggest some minor changes in the documentation given at : http://pythonhosted.org/mailman/src/mailman/docs/WebUIin5.html 1. django version required should be changed to 1.4 from >=1.3 2. "cd dev_setup" is very confusing as there is no directory named dev_setup formed. Instead it should be mentioned that developers refer the documentation in "/postorius/src/postorius/doc/setup.rst" for further setting up of development server. Cheers, Sandesh From barry at list.org Thu Feb 21 03:10:40 2013 From: barry at list.org (Barry Warsaw) Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2013 21:10:40 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] (no subject) In-Reply-To: References: <512292A9.3050300@gmail.com> <20130220081938.6cbe94b2@anarchist.wooz.org> Message-ID: <20130220211040.1cbd7f55@anarchist.wooz.org> On Feb 21, 2013, at 05:19 AM, Sandesh Agrawal wrote: >I managed to get postorius running after much efforts, and i would >suggest some minor changes in the documentation given at : >http://pythonhosted.org/mailman/src/mailman/docs/WebUIin5.html > >1. django version required should be changed to 1.4 from >=1.3 >2. "cd dev_setup" is very confusing as there is no directory named >dev_setup formed. Instead it should be mentioned that developers refer >the documentation in "/postorius/src/postorius/doc/setup.rst" for >further setting up of development server. Hi Sandesh, how would you like to do a merge proposal with your suggested changes? :) Cheers, -Barry From terri at zone12.com Thu Feb 21 07:50:26 2013 From: terri at zone12.com (Terri Oda) Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2013 23:50:26 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] gsoc 2013 guidance In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5125C3B2.3010703@zone12.com> On 13-02-19 9:32 AM, mayank bhola wrote: > I would like to contribute to mailman for gsoc 2013 , please guide me for > the same on which type of skills we need to have and show along with > proposal and other details I've been getting lots of questions from prospective students, so I put together a page with some tips: http://wiki.list.org/x/j4Dt Hopefully that will help you get started! If you haven't already looked at the ideas page, I've started trying to include recommended skills there, too: http://wiki.list.org/x/Z4Dt We haven't really established exactly what we will be expecting as far as applications go, but it's a bit early to worry about that -- for now, work on making sure you've got the necessary skills and figuring out what specific project you'd like to work on. Terri From sakuag333 at gmail.com Thu Feb 21 13:28:37 2013 From: sakuag333 at gmail.com (Sandesh Agrawal) Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2013 17:58:37 +0530 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <20130220211040.1cbd7f55@anarchist.wooz.org> References: <512292A9.3050300@gmail.com> <20130220081938.6cbe94b2@anarchist.wooz.org> <20130220211040.1cbd7f55@anarchist.wooz.org> Message-ID: > Hi Sandesh, how would you like to do a merge proposal with your suggested > changes? :) What is the procedure to commit changes in the on-line documentation so that i can upload my changes for merge proposal . Cheers, Sandesh From terri at zone12.com Thu Feb 21 17:26:03 2013 From: terri at zone12.com (Terri Oda) Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2013 09:26:03 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Changes to on-line documentation ( was Re: (no subject) ) In-Reply-To: References: <512292A9.3050300@gmail.com> <20130220081938.6cbe94b2@anarchist.wooz.org> <20130220211040.1cbd7f55@anarchist.wooz.org> Message-ID: <51264A9B.3010607@zone12.com> First: Sandesh, could you start using relevant subject lines on your emails? Posting once with no subject looks like a mistake, but posting repeatedly with no subject is terrible mailing list etiquette and looks particularly bad when you're hoping to work with people who develop mailing list software. It's bad etiquette because it makes it more difficult for people to prioritize what they read at a glance or find a particular message of yours if they've thought of some new information and want to go back and reply later. See more on good subject lines here: http://mno.org.uk/email-list-etiquette/ (or just do a google search -- lots of sites have different etiquette guidelines, but you'll notice a lot of commonalities. On 13-02-21 5:28 AM, Sandesh Agrawal wrote: > What is the procedure to commit changes in the on-line documentation > so that i can upload my changes for merge proposal . > The documentation that I think you mean can be found under src/mailman/docs/ in your mailman directory. You might want to read up a bit on the .rst format, but it's mostly intuitive. If you're not sure exactly where the bit you want is, try grepping for a longer phrase near where you want to edit. If you mean wiki documentation, though, that's separate and not strictly necessary for a merge proposal, although always recommended! Terri From paul at boddie.org.uk Mon Feb 25 00:01:17 2013 From: paul at boddie.org.uk (Paul Boddie) Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2013 00:01:17 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Wiki Migration Update Message-ID: <201302250001.18261.paul@boddie.org.uk> Hello, This is really just a quick mail to let you know that I haven't forgotten about my promise to look into migrating the Wiki content to MoinMoin. As always, you can monitor the status of the work here: http://hgweb.boddie.org.uk/ConfluenceConverter/ I aim to upload a snapshot of the translated content to a demonstration site (as I did before) in the next few days, and hopefully will have improved the output a bit by then. Although I have mostly been focusing on the old Confluence Wiki markup in the past couple of days, I think that the recent changes have improved the "fidelity" of the old page revisions somewhat, and with the new XHTML-style markup being somewhat easier to deal with, I aim to have parity between the two formats fairly soon. If there's anything in particular beyond basic content migration that you'd like to see in MoinMoin, please let me know. The markup mapping page... http://moinmo.in/ConfluenceConverter/DevelopmentNotes/MarkupMapping ...describes some macros and other features that should be reproduced in the Moin-based solution, and I've attempted to incorporate existing page comments (as I described before) and page navigation features, but it would be useful to know what people currently depend upon so that any extra macros or extensions can be written. I'll send another update soon. Thanks for being patient! Paul From barry at list.org Mon Feb 25 19:26:04 2013 From: barry at list.org (Barry Warsaw) Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2013 13:26:04 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Wiki Migration Update In-Reply-To: <201302250001.18261.paul@boddie.org.uk> References: <201302250001.18261.paul@boddie.org.uk> Message-ID: <20130225132604.5555ea6f@anarchist.wooz.org> On Feb 25, 2013, at 12:01 AM, Paul Boddie wrote: >I'll send another update soon. Thanks for being patient! Thanks for the update Paul! Will you be at Pycon? -Barry From terri at zone12.com Mon Feb 25 19:36:16 2013 From: terri at zone12.com (Terri Oda) Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2013 11:36:16 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Wiki Migration Update In-Reply-To: <20130225132604.5555ea6f@anarchist.wooz.org> References: <201302250001.18261.paul@boddie.org.uk> <20130225132604.5555ea6f@anarchist.wooz.org> Message-ID: <512BAF20.6090700@zone12.com> On 13-02-25 11:26 AM, Barry Warsaw wrote: > On Feb 25, 2013, at 12:01 AM, Paul Boddie wrote: > >> I'll send another update soon. Thanks for being patient! > Thanks for the update Paul! Will you be at Pycon? > Thanks from me too, Paul! The wiki was driving me up the wall when I was doing the GSoC edits, even more so when I was contrasting it with the python.org one. I'm really looking forwards to this migration! Terri From paul at boddie.org.uk Mon Feb 25 21:52:37 2013 From: paul at boddie.org.uk (Paul Boddie) Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2013 21:52:37 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Wiki Migration Update In-Reply-To: <512BAF20.6090700@zone12.com> References: <201302250001.18261.paul@boddie.org.uk> <20130225132604.5555ea6f@anarchist.wooz.org> <512BAF20.6090700@zone12.com> Message-ID: <201302252152.37714.paul@boddie.org.uk> On Monday 25 February 2013 19:36:16 Terri Oda wrote: > On 13-02-25 11:26 AM, Barry Warsaw wrote: > > On Feb 25, 2013, at 12:01 AM, Paul Boddie wrote: > >> I'll send another update soon. Thanks for being patient! > > > > Thanks for the update Paul! Will you be at Pycon? > > Thanks from me too, Paul! The wiki was driving me up the wall when I > was doing the GSoC edits, even more so when I was contrasting it with > the python.org one. I'm really looking forwards to this migration! Well, I'll let you know what progress I make, and I guess Barry and I will try and work on the hosting aspect as the process nears completion. I've never had to edit a Confluence Wiki, but I have seen quite a few upset comments about the migration to WYSIWYG-only editing, so maybe other people might also consider migration to Moin if we can pull this off convincingly. As for PyCon, it's on the wrong continent for me, unfortunately, but I'm sure you have plenty of sprinting topics to keep you busy, anyway. Paul From follybeachris at gmail.com Tue Feb 26 16:23:56 2013 From: follybeachris at gmail.com (Chris Cargile) Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2013 10:23:56 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Mailman-Developers Digest, Vol 286, Issue 7 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: To pair with Sandesh's sharing that the python-version-requirement in the documentation needed updating and to coincide with Paul's (brave :) commitment, I would like to know what the "must-do"s are, and later more specifically, the processes for updating the build documentation in its various places: - while each component of MM3 )archiver, UI...) should be entitled to its own separate documentation for modularity and sanity of the developers, what would be considered the best practices for documentation as a whole? This is one of my first dives into software development in a group-oriented/open-source env't but in non-profit organizations I volunteer-served and administrated, clear and systematic process flows were helpful (to help me stay focused) - IOW, could we assume the wiki.list.org is the de facto location for overall MM3 documentation and that bzr or pythonhosted.org would be where the individual component's documentation should be maintained for now? At minimum, I think it is important to get confirmation whether the confluence snapshot (wiki.list.org) is just a snapshot and we can direct our efforts at updating the documentation there? also, on that note, what would be the sphinx documentation role in all this and/or how necessary is it to understand that system? Finally, for the confluence system, I noticed there is more of a total CMS offering vs. just the wiki functionality and wanted to know will the blog etc be maintained disparately after we move to a moin system? This is a lot but I'm trying to get to speed - on the fun side, I'm making my first update to add me on the remote-attendees list for the upcoming pysprints Cheers, Chris On Mon, Feb 25, 2013 at 6:00 AM, wrote: > Send Mailman-Developers mailing list submissions to > mailman-developers at python.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > mailman-developers-request at python.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > mailman-developers-owner at python.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Mailman-Developers digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Wiki Migration Update (Paul Boddie) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2013 00:01:17 +0100 > From: Paul Boddie > To: mailman-developers at python.org > Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Wiki Migration Update > Message-ID: <201302250001.18261.paul at boddie.org.uk> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Hello, > > This is really just a quick mail to let you know that I haven't forgotten > about my promise to look into migrating the Wiki content to MoinMoin. As > always, you can monitor the status of the work here: > > http://hgweb.boddie.org.uk/ConfluenceConverter/ > > I aim to upload a snapshot of the translated content to a demonstration > site > (as I did before) in the next few days, and hopefully will have improved > the > output a bit by then. Although I have mostly been focusing on the old > Confluence Wiki markup in the past couple of days, I think that the recent > changes have improved the "fidelity" of the old page revisions somewhat, > and > with the new XHTML-style markup being somewhat easier to deal with, I aim > to > have parity between the two formats fairly soon. > > If there's anything in particular beyond basic content migration that you'd > like to see in MoinMoin, please let me know. The markup mapping page... > > http://moinmo.in/ConfluenceConverter/DevelopmentNotes/MarkupMapping > > ...describes some macros and other features that should be reproduced in > the > Moin-based solution, and I've attempted to incorporate existing page > comments > (as I described before) and page navigation features, but it would be > useful > to know what people currently depend upon so that any extra macros or > extensions can be written. > > I'll send another update soon. Thanks for being patient! > > Paul > > > ------------------------------ > > Subject: Digest Footer > > _______________________________________________ > Mailman-Developers mailing list > Mailman-Developers at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers > > > ------------------------------ > > End of Mailman-Developers Digest, Vol 286, Issue 7 > ************************************************** > From paul at boddie.org.uk Tue Feb 26 17:11:23 2013 From: paul at boddie.org.uk (Paul Boddie) Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2013 17:11:23 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Mailman-Developers Digest, Vol 286, Issue 7 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <201302261711.23574.paul@boddie.org.uk> On Tuesday 26 February 2013 16:23:56 Chris Cargile wrote: > > - IOW, could we assume the wiki.list.org is the de facto location for > overall MM3 documentation and that bzr or pythonhosted.org would be where > the individual component's documentation should be maintained for now? I'll stay out of any discussion about Mailman documentation because I'm not really involved in Mailman development. > At minimum, I think it is important to get confirmation whether the > confluence snapshot (wiki.list.org) is just a snapshot and we can direct > our efforts at updating the documentation there? also, on that note, what > would be the sphinx documentation role in all this and/or how necessary is > it to understand that system? I'm guessing here that you're referring to the DOC space generally and documents like the following specifically: http://wiki.list.org/display/DOC/Mailman+2.1+Members+Manual So I interpret your question as being whether the documentation on the Wiki is just a snapshot of some documentation maintained elsewhere or whether the work is being done on the Wiki itself. > Finally, for the confluence system, I noticed there is more of a total CMS > offering vs. just the wiki functionality and wanted to know will the blog > etc be maintained disparately after we move to a moin system? My aim is to support blog functionality since it shouldn't be anything fundamentally different from what Moin does even without extensions. There seems to be things like activity logs, and Moin doesn't really support this "out of the box" for each contributor, but I've been meaning to implement such functionality for Moin anyway. If there is any functionality that you are wondering about, by all means provide a link to an example of its usage and I'll try and give an opinion on whether it will be easily supported or not. Generally, the border between Wiki and CMS territory is vague (a Wiki is a form of CMS, after all) and it can be quite straightforward to add functionality regarded as CMS-specific to Moin. Paul From terri at zone12.com Tue Feb 26 18:38:13 2013 From: terri at zone12.com (Terri Oda) Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2013 10:38:13 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Mailman-Developers Digest, Vol 286, Issue 7 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <512CF305.2060008@zone12.com> On 02/26/2013 08:23 AM, Chris Cargile wrote: > At minimum, I think it is important to get confirmation whether the > confluence snapshot (wiki.list.org) is just a snapshot and we can direct > our efforts at updating the documentation there? also, on that note, what > would be the sphinx documentation role in all this and/or how necessary is > it to understand that system? You've more or less guessed how it works, but just for confirmation, here's the deal: - Each package contains individual setup documentation and doctests - wiki.list.org contains all other documentation, like the FAQ, larger user/admin guides, architectural notes, ideas from sprints, GSoC efforts, etc. We do "duplicate" setup docs in both places so that they're easier to find and easier for non-devs to edit in case something's confusing or inaccurate. There's no specific process for keeping them in sync since there are relatively few edits. So in short: for you personally, editing the wiki documentation is the preferred way to help and you can treat it as the canonical documentation location. You can, in the case of errors, also submit merge requests to fix the documentation in the source tree. At some point, I imagine Paul will tell us the migration is ready to go and we'll freeze the wiki, but for now go ahead and edit there. > Finally, for the confluence system, I noticed there is more of a total CMS > offering vs. just the wiki functionality and wanted to know will the blog > etc be maintained disparately after we move to a moin system? Barry just uses the blog functionality as a news area; I'm guessing a "recent news" page would probably suffice for this. I expect we'll keep the Confluence wiki around for a little while after the migration, but since it's a minor hassle to get our license renewed, I expect it will lapse eventually. I still have a todo list item reminding me that we'd like a new website for Mailman 3.0's release (including cleaning up the myriad different docs available for previous versions) so maybe at that point we'll go back to using the front page for news updates. Terri From mark at msapiro.net Wed Feb 27 00:45:00 2013 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2013 15:45:00 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] List etiquette - was: Mailman-Developers Digest, Vol 286, Issue 7 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: It helps greatly if replies to digests are given a meaningful subject and do not quote irrelevant parts of the digest. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From follybeachris at gmail.com Wed Feb 27 20:33:48 2013 From: follybeachris at gmail.com (Chris Cargile) Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2013 14:33:48 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] background on maintaining the documentation (was RE: Mailman-Developers Digest, Vol 286, Issue 9) Message-ID: thanks guys - that helps me get going with things..like documentation probably should, huh? :) >If there is any functionality that you are wondering about, by all means >provide a link to an example of its usage and I'll try and give an opinion on >whether it will be easily supported or not. Generally, the border between >Wiki and CMS territory is vague (a Wiki is a form of CMS, after all) and it >can be quite straightforward to add functionality regarded as CMS-specific to >Moin. >Paul the Moin system will get us away from the Atlassian licensing hassle AND would tie in great for enabling a new website for the MM3 release, - it would be cool, IMO, if we got to explore the RSS feature's ( http://moinmo.in/MoinMoinSyndication) working since we could generate recent changes outputting onto a feed, and from there, either give the RSS page some nice CSS or display the feed on the new site main-page if it was being served up separately from the moin system. I also checked using the w3c validator and moin outputs its pages in valid-xhtml mark-up so that's good for accessibility, which seems like a good goal for Mailman too, seeing as its role is a communications medium so +++1 for the moin cms transfer (/RSS?) - I don't have much familiarity with moin blogspaces, but it'll work fine I bet >>So I interpret your question as being whether the documentation on the Wiki is >>just a snapshot of some documentation maintained elsewhere or whether the >>work is being done on the Wiki itself. The documentation is maintained to some level in Atlassian, pythonhosted.org, and the bzr repos (, other places?) per package, so Terri explained that Atlassian is the main location for how-to's, admin guides, and GSOC stuff. Otherwise, for simplicity, the packages have docs and doctests, in the individual package themselves on Tue, 26 Feb 2013 10:38 Terri Oda wrote: > At minimum, I think it is important to get confirmation whether the > confluence snapshot (wiki.list.org) is just a snapshot and we can direct > our efforts at updating the documentation there? also, on that note, what > would be the sphinx documentation role in all this and/or how necessary is > it to understand that system? >>You can, in the case of errors, also submit >>merge requests to fix the documentation in the source tree. At some >>point, I imagine Paul will tell us the migration is ready to go and >>we'll freeze the wiki, but for now go ahead and edit there. Would the merges accepted propogate document changes to the package repos or are we referring to a merge against a documents-repo that is somewhere I don't know of. I'm still confused on where the sphinx documentation plays into it (is that maybe like building javadocs only, instead it does so for python, maybe) r/Chris From terri at zone12.com Thu Feb 28 01:18:49 2013 From: terri at zone12.com (Terri Oda) Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2013 17:18:49 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] background on maintaining the documentation (was RE: Mailman-Developers Digest, Vol 286, Issue 9) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <512EA269.6020802@zone12.com> On 13-02-27 12:33 PM, Chris Cargile wrote: > the Moin system will get us away from the Atlassian licensing hassle > AND would tie in great for enabling a new website for the MM3 release, Um... Chris, you do realize that we're experience software developers working on a project under the banner of the free software foundation? We're reasonably familiar with licensing issues and how they relate to mailman! The message you sent (which I've mostly snipped) is not only un-timely at this point so long after the decision about switching was made but also seems a little patronizing in context. > Would the merges accepted propogate document changes to the package > repos or are we referring to a merge against a documents-repo that is > somewhere I don't know of. I'm still confused on where the sphinx > documentation plays into it (is that maybe like building javadocs > only, instead it does so for python, maybe) There is a docs directory in each project. There is no separate docs repo. Mailman's is here: https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~mailman-coders/mailman/3.0/files/head:/src/mailman/docs/ Postorius' is here: https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~mailman-coders/postorius/trunk/files/head:/src/postorius/doc/ and I don't have a link for Hyperkitty's handy but I'm sure you can find it yourself. And now my turn to border on patronizing: My recommendation is that as a new contributor, you should really stick to editing the wiki until you have a sense of what you're doing and let the devs maintain the documentation for their own packages. Terri From barry at list.org Thu Feb 28 04:59:40 2013 From: barry at list.org (Barry Warsaw) Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2013 22:59:40 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] background on maintaining the documentation (was RE: Mailman-Developers Digest, Vol 286, Issue 9) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20130227225940.65ce4d94@anarchist.wooz.org> On Feb 27, 2013, at 02:33 PM, Chris Cargile wrote: >the Moin system will get us away from the Atlassian licensing hassle AND >would tie in great for enabling a new website for the MM3 release, I'm really hoping we can get onto Moin soon, not only for the above good reasons, but also because of the free software issue, and because -- while generous -- it's still a big hassle to deal with our Confluence hosting provider when problems come up. I'm very confident we can find a Moin-based wiki a good home. >The documentation is maintained to some level in Atlassian, pythonhosted.org, >and the bzr repos (, other places?) per package, so Terri explained that >Atlassian is the main location for how-to's, admin guides, and GSOC stuff. >Otherwise, for simplicity, the packages have docs and doctests, in the >individual package themselves I'm a big fan of having as much documentation in the source repository as possible. I love a good wiki, but everything needs gardening and documentation seems better suited for version control systems. Not all documentation need be testable, but that which can be works great being part of the source tree. (The current doctest suite is I think of mixed quality; some of the older doctests conflated too much bad-path testing which makes it more difficult to read as documentation. I've been migrating much of that to unittests, in order to improve the readability and good-path flow of the documentation.) It's also much easier to review and merge documentation changes via our dvcs tools. One thing that's missing is better overview documentation. That's long been on my list of things to improve. >Would the merges accepted propogate document changes to the package repos or >are we referring to a merge against a documents-repo that is somewhere I >don't know of. I'm still confused on where the sphinx documentation plays >into it (is that maybe like building javadocs only, instead it does so for >python, maybe) The pythonhosted.org (formerly packages.python.org) documentation is generated from the source tree via `python setup.py build_sphinx`. You can build it and view it locally the same way. `python setup.py upload_docs` is what gets the new documentation uploaded, but I've just created a project on readthedocs.org so I think we should migrate there as our primary online documentation source. The nice thing is that gets automatically updated when we push updates to lp:mailman (i.e. trunk). Cheers, -Barry From barry at list.org Thu Feb 28 05:12:07 2013 From: barry at list.org (Barry Warsaw) Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2013 23:12:07 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Mailman-Developers Digest, Vol 286, Issue 7 In-Reply-To: <512CF305.2060008@zone12.com> References: <512CF305.2060008@zone12.com> Message-ID: <20130227231207.1e281f5f@anarchist.wooz.org> (I really should catch up on all the threads before I start responding. Sigh, it's been a long day. ;) On Feb 26, 2013, at 10:38 AM, Terri Oda wrote: >Barry just uses the blog functionality as a news area; I'm guessing a "recent >news" page would probably suffice for this. I expect we'll keep the >Confluence wiki around for a little while after the migration, but since it's >a minor hassle to get our license renewed, I expect it will lapse eventually. I mostly stopped blogging on Confluence, even for new releases, since it's actually kind of a pain. I should blog more Mailman stuff on my own blog (www.wefearchange.org) and will definitely do so after Pycon. >I still have a todo list item reminding me that we'd like a new website for >Mailman 3.0's release (including cleaning up the myriad different docs >available for previous versions) so maybe at that point we'll go back to >using the front page for news updates. Of course, I'm +1 on a new website for MM3, and I'd *dearly* love to get rid of the ht2html based web site on www.list.org. I bet Sphinx can give us something awesome, and beautifully themed to our new logo and color scheme. Cheers, -Barry