From dcrodman at gmail.com Sun Apr 3 19:33:50 2011 From: dcrodman at gmail.com (Andrew Rodman) Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2011 13:33:50 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Google Summer of Code Message-ID: Hello, my name is Andrew Rodman and I'm a college student looking to get involved in your Mailman mailing list manager through Google's Summer of Code. This is my first year investigating the program and I'm unsure about the steps I need to take to apply for this project. I'm assuming I need to write a project proposal but I'm not entirely sure where to start my research for this application. Would you mind pointing me in the right direction? Thank you, Andrew Rodman From barry at list.org Mon Apr 4 17:12:33 2011 From: barry at list.org (Barry Warsaw) Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2011 11:12:33 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Google Summer of Code In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20110404111233.5de8d189@neurotica.wooz.org> On Apr 03, 2011, at 01:33 PM, Andrew Rodman wrote: >Hello, my name is Andrew Rodman and I'm a college student looking to get >involved in your Mailman mailing list manager through Google's Summer of >Code. This is my first year investigating the program and I'm unsure about >the steps I need to take to apply for this project. I'm assuming I need to >write a project proposal but I'm not entirely sure where to start my >research for this application. Would you mind pointing me in the right >direction? Hi Andrew, we'd love to have you as a student this year. What areas are you interested in working on? We have some great mentors this year, so depending on what you're interested in, we can make sure you get paired up with the right person. Do you want to work on GUI stuff, engine stuff, the archiver, REST API, or something else? Don't forget, many of us are on IRC, so if you want to have a higher bandwidth discussion, we're on #mailman on freenode. I'm always here during working hours in US/Eastern time. My nick is 'barry', and please do ping me if you want to chat (I on so many channels, it's difficult to track them all ;). Cheers, -Barry -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: not available URL: From f at state-of-mind.de Mon Apr 4 17:53:11 2011 From: f at state-of-mind.de (Florian Fuchs) Date: Mon, 04 Apr 2011 17:53:11 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Google Summer of Code In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4D99E967.8010109@state-of-mind.de> Hi Andrew, On 03.04.2011 19:33, Andrew Rodman wrote: > Hello, my name is Andrew Rodman and I'm a college student looking to get > involved in your Mailman mailing list manager through Google's Summer of > Code. Sounds good! > This is my first year investigating the program and I'm unsure about > the steps I need to take to apply for this project. I'm assuming I need to > write a project proposal but I'm not entirely sure where to start my > research for this application. Would you mind pointing me in the right > direction? A good place to start would be the ideas page in the Mailman wiki: http://wiki.list.org/display/DEV/Google+Summer+of+Code+2011 If you find something that interests you I think it would be best to share your thoughts with one (or more?) of the Mentors before you apply - either by posting/subscribing to mailman-developers at python.org, or by directly talking to one of us on IRC. We're always happy to discuss ideas, plans, concerns,... and then find the right mentor for your project. For the technical part: Mailman is registered under the umbrella of the Python Software Foundation, so the place to file your application would be the PSF's SoC page: http://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/org/google/gsoc2011/python You can also find an application template there with the most basic information needed to apply. So... That's it for a start, I guess. My nick on IRC (#mailman on freenode.net) is florianf. Feel free to ping me if you have any further questions! (I'm UTC +2 hours, usually online during work hours.) Cheers Florian > > Thank you, > Andrew Rodman > _______________________________________________ > Mailman-Developers mailing list > Mailman-Developers at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers > Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 > Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-developers%40python.org/ > Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-developers/f%40state-of-mind.de > > Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 5346 bytes Desc: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature URL: From cs5070214 at cse.iitd.ac.in Tue Apr 12 18:29:34 2011 From: cs5070214 at cse.iitd.ac.in (Dushyant Bansal) Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2011 21:59:34 +0530 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] GSOC - Archives UI for mailman: Use cases Message-ID: <4DA47DEE.9010900@cse.iitd.ac.in> Hi all, I am a gsoc participant and here is my project proposal http://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/proposal/review/google/gsoc2011/dushyant/2001 As a first step, I have gone through all the use cases of archives UI listed as part of Systers Archive Project last year and these are my views. Please give your feedback. *High-Priority* Users Viewing a Conversation 1.Users want to be able to navigate all messages within a conversation in as few clicks as possible 2.Users prefer spending less time browsing all messages in a conversation 3.Suppose the conversation the user found is a question about solving a technical problem. Users would want to be able to easily find replies (answers) to the original message. -> Very important use cases. Even if we don't have any notion of a 'conversation', showing more than one message on a page will help users to quickly browse through all the messages in a thread. Handling Top/Bottom Posting /By default, the quoted text can either be all hidden or all displayed. It might also be good to only hide the quoted text when it is at the end of the message, as when it is in the middle, the user is likely to want to see it for context. / ->On mailing lists, people generally use 'inline posting' to reply. One level of inline posting is helpful to see the context, but if it goes beyond one level then, it might be a good idea to hide the old quoted text. Users Viewing Index of Conversations Single Archive and Page-Splitting for Conversations Index - 2010-07-09, 2010-07-16 ->This is a good idea to view archives as a conversation. *Low-Priority:* Users Viewing a Conversation 4.Users want to be able to easily separate the meta data (sender's name, date the message was sent etc) from the post so they can either skip over or really pay attention to whichever part they need. 5.Some users may want to be able to distinguish between replying to the sender and replying to the mailing list Situations that involve filtering messages by date: -> Though, it is very easy to implement. Support for Non-dlist lists: -> I don't have much idea how many users use this. *One more Use case* When a user views a message, he is provided the link to either go to previous message or next message. Along with those links, we can show a list of links to all messages of that thread along with author names, to allow that user to directly jump to any message in that thread. "Mail-archive" provides this feature. Looking forward to your comments. Regards, Dushyant From tanstaafl at libertytrek.org Fri Apr 15 16:50:04 2011 From: tanstaafl at libertytrek.org (Tanstaafl) Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2011 10:50:04 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] GSOC - Archives UI for mailman: Use cases In-Reply-To: <4DA47DEE.9010900@cse.iitd.ac.in> References: <4DA47DEE.9010900@cse.iitd.ac.in> Message-ID: <4DA85B1C.7090007@libertytrek.org> On 2011-04-12 12:29 PM, Dushyant Bansal wrote: > Handling Top/Bottom Posting > /By default, the quoted text can either be all hidden or all displayed. > It might also be good to only hide the quoted text when it is at the end > of the message, as when it is in the middle, the user is likely to want > to see it for context. > / > ->On mailing lists, people generally use 'inline posting' to reply. One > level of inline posting is helpful to see the context, but if it goes > beyond one level then, it might be a good idea to hide the old quoted text. As long as it is togglable, this is a great idea... I've been using the QuoteCollapse extension in Thunderbird for a long time and it works great... doesn't handle all use cases (like broken MUA's that don't use proper quote characters), but for the most part works very well... From cs5070214 at cse.iitd.ac.in Fri Apr 15 17:51:33 2011 From: cs5070214 at cse.iitd.ac.in (Dushyant Bansal) Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2011 21:21:33 +0530 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] GSOC - Archives UI for mailman: Use cases In-Reply-To: <4DA85B1C.7090007@libertytrek.org> References: <4DA47DEE.9010900@cse.iitd.ac.in> <4DA85B1C.7090007@libertytrek.org> Message-ID: <4DA86985.7020602@cse.iitd.ac.in> On Friday 15 April 2011 08:20 PM, Tanstaafl wrote: > On 2011-04-12 12:29 PM, Dushyant Bansal wrote: >> Handling Top/Bottom Posting >> /By default, the quoted text can either be all hidden or all displayed. >> It might also be good to only hide the quoted text when it is at the end >> of the message, as when it is in the middle, the user is likely to want >> to see it for context. >> / >> ->On mailing lists, people generally use 'inline posting' to reply. One >> level of inline posting is helpful to see the context, but if it goes >> beyond one level then, it might be a good idea to hide the old quoted text. > As long as it is togglable, this is a great idea... Right, it should be togglable. > I've been using the QuoteCollapse extension in Thunderbird for a long > time and it works great... doesn't handle all use cases (like broken > MUA's that don't use proper quote characters), but for the most part > works very well... I just installed the extension. Looks great! -- Dushyant From bernie at fsf.org Wed Apr 20 18:34:19 2011 From: bernie at fsf.org (Bernie Innocenti) Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2011 12:34:19 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Attachments being scrubbed even for lists where 'archive' is set to No Message-ID: <1303317259.2368.408.camel@giskard.codewiz.org> This is Mailman 2.14, but the bug was also present in ancient releases. We have a list configured like this: archive=No archive_private=Yes The global settings are: DEFAULT_ARCHIVE=On DEFAULT_ARCHIVE_PRIVATE=0 ARCHIVE_TO_MBOX=2 PRIVATE_EXTERNAL_ARCHIVER=No Even though no html archives are being generated, Mailman still creates the attachments directory for this list, and saves all attachments in it. I've traced the code responsible for this to ArchiverMailbox.__init__(), invoked by HyperArchive.processUnixMailbox(). I couldn't find where Mailman uses the perl-list 'archive' flag. Only the global DEFAULT_ARCHIVE seems to be considered. -- Bernie Innocenti Systems Administrator, Free Software Foundation From mark at msapiro.net Wed Apr 20 19:02:02 2011 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2011 10:02:02 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Attachments being scrubbed even for listswhere 'archive' is set to No In-Reply-To: <1303317259.2368.408.camel@giskard.codewiz.org> Message-ID: Bernie Innocenti wrote: >This is Mailman 2.14, but the bug was also present in ancient releases. > >We have a list configured like this: > archive=No > archive_private=Yes > >The global settings are: > DEFAULT_ARCHIVE=On > DEFAULT_ARCHIVE_PRIVATE=0 > ARCHIVE_TO_MBOX=2 > PRIVATE_EXTERNAL_ARCHIVER=No > >Even though no html archives are being generated, Mailman still creates >the attachments directory for this list, and saves all attachments in >it. > >I've traced the code responsible for this to ArchiverMailbox.__init__(), >invoked by HyperArchive.processUnixMailbox(). I couldn't find where >Mailman uses the perl-list 'archive' flag. Only the global >DEFAULT_ARCHIVE seems to be considered. The list's 'archive' flag is tested in the ToArchive.py handler and if False, the message is never queued for archiving and the HyperArchive.processUnixMailbox() process is never invoked. Scrubbing is not only done in archiving. See my comment in your bug report at . -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From barry at list.org Tue Apr 26 03:30:32 2011 From: barry at list.org (Barry Warsaw) Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2011 21:30:32 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] [Mailman-checkins] [Branch ~mailman-coders/mailman/2.1] Rev 1297: A new list poster password has been implemented. This password may only In-Reply-To: <20110426010051.27711.52366.launchpad@loganberry.canonical.com> References: <20110426010051.27711.52366.launchpad@loganberry.canonical.com> Message-ID: <20110425213032.6528530f@neurotica.wooz.org> Hi Mark, Thanks for taking care of these (as always!). I have one quick comment. On Apr 26, 2011, at 01:00 AM, noreply at launchpad.net wrote: >------------------------------------------------------------ >revno: 1297 >committer: Mark Sapiro >branch nick: 2.1 >timestamp: Mon 2011-04-25 16:52:35 -0700 >message: > A new list poster password has been implemented. This password may only > be used in Approved: or X-Approved: headers for pre-approving posts. > Using this password for that purpose precludes compromise of a more > valuable password sent in plain text email. Bug #770581. >modified: > Mailman/Cgi/admin.py > Mailman/Defaults.py.in > Mailman/Handlers/Approve.py > Mailman/SecurityManager.py > Mailman/Version.py > Mailman/versions.py > NEWS === modified file 'Mailman/Defaults.py.in' --- Mailman/Defaults.py.in 2011-04-25 22:40:16 +0000 +++ Mailman/Defaults.py.in 2011-04-25 23:52:35 +0000 @@ -1375,6 +1375,11 @@ # option settings # - List creator, someone who can create and delete lists, but cannot # (necessarily) configure the list. +# - List poster, someone who can pre-approve her/his own posts to the list by +# including an Approved: or X-Approved: header or first body line pseudo- +# header containing the poster password. The list admin and moderator +# passwords can also be used for this purpose, but the poster password can +# only be used for this and nothing else. # - List moderator, someone who can tend to pending requests such as # subscription requests, or held messages # - List administrator, someone who has total control over a list, can @@ -1389,7 +1394,8 @@ AuthCreator = 2 # List Creator / Destroyer AuthListAdmin = 3 # List Administrator (total control over list) AuthListModerator = 4 # List Moderator (can only handle held requests) -AuthSiteAdmin = 5 # Site Administrator (total control over everything) +AuthListPoster = 5 # List poster (Approved: header in posts only) +AuthSiteAdmin = 6 # Site Administrator (total control over everything) >------------------------------------------------------------ While this is probably harmless, it does make me nervous. I'd probably have added the AuthListPoster as value 6 and left AuthSiteAdmin as 5. It's unlikely that someone has squirreled these values away, but if they have, this might break their code because their AuthSiteAdmin enum value is now AuthListPoster. I'll leave it up to you, but please consider changing AuthSiteAdmin back to 5 and adding AuthListPoster as 6. Cheers, -Barry -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: not available URL: From mark at msapiro.net Tue Apr 26 03:57:58 2011 From: mark at msapiro.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2011 18:57:58 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] [Mailman-checkins] [Branch ~mailman-coders/mailman/2.1] Rev 1297: A new list poster password has been implemented. This password may only In-Reply-To: <20110425213032.6528530f@neurotica.wooz.org> References: <20110426010051.27711.52366.launchpad@loganberry.canonical.com> <20110425213032.6528530f@neurotica.wooz.org> Message-ID: <4DB626A6.5090706@msapiro.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 4/25/2011 6:30 PM, Barry Warsaw wrote: > @@ -1389,7 +1394,8 @@ > AuthCreator = 2 # List Creator / Destroyer > AuthListAdmin = 3 # List Administrator (total control over list) > AuthListModerator = 4 # List Moderator (can only handle held requests) > -AuthSiteAdmin = 5 # Site Administrator (total control over everything) > +AuthListPoster = 5 # List poster (Approved: header in posts only) > +AuthSiteAdmin = 6 # Site Administrator (total control over everything) >> ------------------------------------------------------------ > > While this is probably harmless, it does make me nervous. I'd probably have > added the AuthListPoster as value 6 and left AuthSiteAdmin as 5. It's > unlikely that someone has squirreled these values away, but if they have, > this might break their code because their AuthSiteAdmin enum value is now > AuthListPoster. Thanks for the comment. I initially did just what you suggest, but I decided that was being more careful than necessary and esthetically, I liked it better this way. But, I didn't consider that someone might actually have code that saved the values, and although I think it's unlikely, the potential consequences could be serious, so I'll change it. - -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (MingW32) iD8DBQFNtialVVuXXpU7hpMRAqOGAJ47KXG8BOGyoIZ6cjge7H5WzMfi7ACeOW40 1kcyliAC5AIJTcf3DYhOQ4E= =Tmg2 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From barry at list.org Tue Apr 26 20:53:55 2011 From: barry at list.org (Barry Warsaw) Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2011 14:53:55 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] [Mailman-checkins] [Branch ~mailman-coders/mailman/2.1] Rev 1297: A new list poster password has been implemented. This password may only In-Reply-To: <4DB626A6.5090706@msapiro.net> References: <20110426010051.27711.52366.launchpad@loganberry.canonical.com> <20110425213032.6528530f@neurotica.wooz.org> <4DB626A6.5090706@msapiro.net> Message-ID: <20110426145355.4dcc7087@neurotica.wooz.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 On Apr 25, 2011, at 06:57 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote: >Thanks for the comment. I initially did just what you suggest, but I >decided that was being more careful than necessary and esthetically, I >liked it better this way. But, I didn't consider that someone might >actually have code that saved the values, and although I think it's >unlikely, the potential consequences could be serious, so I'll change it. Thanks Mark. - -Barry -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) iQIcBAEBCAAGBQJNtxTDAAoJEBJutWOnSwa/A8wP/izzWFJokD+aNnEpVvbfqPOh ioR01lkyVQor/SveBlMJCShM9EAmZ5zQ2x85QnDKzsNawlvkZB/Ge6lP7Dt2Y5OM tOP8nrrGQUyl/h7kxq9BeffDTfxKkxW7Y5bvhqLwMCQCHTpEQI6S7GsFD8AnTCKL H2AMZAfAb9xBCaVBd6weKbx/2OVCSF9e8jmekYANjRhy0YFp0xMWm5UsOsCcyDsP H4hkQAwpigAMkYwZXnQWj9nC2MaeJuZw12PjQF+67CJQTMQ20S12k8ipzhFbHrKK Oy+UOoT0Sy2+x/G4vNx5qccw9ZjdOPnAdRCQQRZftJBUNaKhTcQ/8ScFnXitfTwj 6a6yWhO2I5JKuNf+pifgaRKhbBUzq8Rt+4OiU8CT69edQrQQkP1qeSP8JQaYVvH3 Hp1v+NfOtJdMOyntsHypMXAiTeppGTHW48EuyehRed4vwlsSRIs9McVAH96rmd2y JOCOHwd/G4uQuQUNey8ma5mxbJlShNSifXGctMPlobggUnj2lXt5h8y1FCJpTnpj Nt9gkOzuTUv4SI/cVliABJ/3gVx8Gg3nxxE/j1zA9GiXHa4/hI4eaTwwLZhNpGuH p1ym0btNLf/3Hz8Ef3dDLyCDIZ912ly0nhBVJfzhelEF0ZAiOqltsAz5kDd7gePo eDACvA+UB3xsq+kV2Nne =hNMt -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From terri at zone12.com Wed Apr 27 06:02:58 2011 From: terri at zone12.com (Terri Oda) Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2011 00:02:58 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Welcome to our Google Summer of Code Students! Message-ID: <4DB79572.7000306@zone12.com> I hope you'll all join me in welcoming our new Google Summer of Code students: * Benedict Stein (benste on IRC) will be working to complete the GSoC work Anna did last summer on the django-based web UI for Mailman 3.0. * Drew Rodman will be converting pipermail to use SQL (rather than pickles) for storing data and creating an upgrade script to help users migrate their archives to the new format. He's even hoping to get Stable URLs working by the end of the summer! * Dushyant Bansal (dushyant on IRC) will be working on the interface of the archives, integrating work from Yian and Priya's GSoC projects last summer and getting it all ready to go for Mailman 3. I'm really excited to have all these great projects and great students! While the students do have a set of official mentors (Barry, Florian, Anna and me), you're all encouraged to help out throughout the summer. The end goal is to have some fully integrated awesomeness, so don't be shy if you've got questions, suggestions, etc. If you've been lurking here wondering how to get involved with Mailman 3, now might be a great time: we've got mentors who've already set aside time to be involved this summer, and we've got students who could benefit from having more people involved in development effort over the next few months. For example, we discovered while our students were writing patches that we don't have a great description of the Mailman 3 install process, so if you want to install it and write up your experiences on the wiki (or just in a blog post we can link to!), that's a great place to start! Terri From adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk Wed Apr 27 11:57:27 2011 From: adam-mailman at amyl.org.uk (Adam McGreggor) Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2011 10:57:27 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Welcome to our Google Summer of Code Students! In-Reply-To: <4DB79572.7000306@zone12.com> References: <4DB79572.7000306@zone12.com> Message-ID: <20110427095727.GK22964@hendricks.amyl.org.uk> On Wed, Apr 27, 2011 at 12:02:58AM -0400, Terri Oda wrote: > I hope you'll all join me in welcoming our new Google Summer of Code > students: Awesome news. > * Benedict Stein (benste on IRC) will be working to complete the GSoC > work Anna did last summer on the django-based web UI for Mailman 3.0. 'Complete' sounds interesting. Is that pretty achievable? I can't believe it's almost been a year. > * Drew Rodman will be converting pipermail to use SQL (rather than > pickles) for storing data and creating an upgrade script to help users > migrate their archives to the new format. He's even hoping to get > Stable URLs working by the end of the summer! Was the plan to use SQLite? Or the choices (and it should be a choice) of MySQL / Postgres? > * Dushyant Bansal (dushyant on IRC) will be working on the interface of > the archives, integrating work from Yian and Priya's GSoC projects last > summer and getting it all ready to go for Mailman 3. Nifty. > I'm really excited to have all these great projects and great students! You're not the only one. > While the students do have a set of official mentors (Barry, Florian, > Anna and me), you're all encouraged to help out throughout the summer. > The end goal is to have some fully integrated awesomeness, so don't be > shy if you've got questions, suggestions, etc. My suggestions from last year are still pertinent ;o) http://www.flickr.com/photos/adamamyl/4484703864/ > If you've been lurking here wondering how to get involved with Mailman > 3, now might be a great time: we've got mentors who've already set aside > time to be involved this summer, and we've got students who could > benefit from having more people involved in development effort over the > next few months. For example, we discovered while our students were > writing patches that we don't have a great description of the Mailman 3 > install process, so if you want to install it and write up your > experiences on the wiki (or just in a blog post we can link to!), that's > a great place to start! Is it too early to start thinking about Operating System/Distro packagers/maintainers, for MM3? -- "Saying that road tax should be spent on transport is like saying that alcohol duty should be spent on pubs." From barry at list.org Wed Apr 27 16:04:27 2011 From: barry at list.org (Barry Warsaw) Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2011 10:04:27 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Welcome to our Google Summer of Code Students! In-Reply-To: <4DB79572.7000306@zone12.com> References: <4DB79572.7000306@zone12.com> Message-ID: <20110427100427.4d1a1457@neurotica.wooz.org> On Apr 27, 2011, at 12:02 AM, Terri Oda wrote: >I hope you'll all join me in welcoming our new Google Summer of Code >students: > >* Benedict Stein (benste on IRC) will be working to complete the GSoC work >* Anna did last summer on the django-based web UI for Mailman 3.0. > >* Drew Rodman will be converting pipermail to use SQL (rather than pickles) >* for storing data and creating an upgrade script to help users migrate their >* archives to the new format. He's even hoping to get Stable URLs working by >* the end of the summer! > >* Dushyant Bansal (dushyant on IRC) will be working on the interface of the >* archives, integrating work from Yian and Priya's GSoC projects last summer >* and getting it all ready to go for Mailman 3. > >I'm really excited to have all these great projects and great students! Indeed! I'm really excited about our students and the projects they're going to be working on. I think we'll make some really excellent progress toward our 11.11.11 release date: http://www.wefearchange.org/2011/04/release-that-rewrite-on-111111.html My *huge* thanks also go to Terri, Florian, and Anna for their mentorship this year and all the great work they did on our GSoC applications. >While the students do have a set of official mentors (Barry, Florian, Anna >and me), you're all encouraged to help out throughout the summer. The end >goal is to have some fully integrated awesomeness, so don't be shy if you've >got questions, suggestions, etc. > >If you've been lurking here wondering how to get involved with Mailman 3, now >might be a great time: we've got mentors who've already set aside time to be >involved this summer, and we've got students who could benefit from having >more people involved in development effort over the next few months. For >example, we discovered while our students were writing patches that we don't >have a great description of the Mailman 3 install process, so if you want to >install it and write up your experiences on the wiki (or just in a blog post >we can link to!), that's a great place to start! Yes! I am planning a 3.0.0a7 release this week, and as always am available to answer questions during US/Eastern (UTC-4) working hours on #mailman on freenode. I encourage you to come hang out there, and also ask questions on this mailing list. Cheers, -Barry -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: not available URL: From barry at list.org Wed Apr 27 16:14:22 2011 From: barry at list.org (Barry Warsaw) Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2011 10:14:22 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Welcome to our Google Summer of Code Students! In-Reply-To: <20110427095727.GK22964@hendricks.amyl.org.uk> References: <4DB79572.7000306@zone12.com> <20110427095727.GK22964@hendricks.amyl.org.uk> Message-ID: <20110427101422.1cf81b5f@neurotica.wooz.org> On Apr 27, 2011, at 10:57 AM, Adam McGreggor wrote: >On Wed, Apr 27, 2011 at 12:02:58AM -0400, Terri Oda wrote: >> * Benedict Stein (benste on IRC) will be working to complete the GSoC >> work Anna did last summer on the django-based web UI for Mailman 3.0. > >'Complete' sounds interesting. Is that pretty achievable? I can't >believe it's almost been a year. (I'll definitely have to use "Time Stands Still" as a code name for an upcoming release. :) Remember that MM3 is re-architected to be several components: a core engine with no ui but with a REST API so that it can be integrated with external sites easily, a Django based web ui as the official web interface to that engine. So the latter makes all the same calls through REST that any other web framework could make. I'm hoping that the Django ui will be as complete as the current MM2 web ui (though fast-forwarded 15 years in web technology, much more usable, and *much* prettier :). But I also don't think it needs to be entirely complete in order to be releasable. It just has to be functionally useful enough that people can create and delete lists, manage subscriptions, configure common options (but not the entire universe of configurability, at least for now), and manage the admin database. With our great mentors, our great students, and you I think that's achievable, and I'm committed to ensure the engine and REST API will provide what's needed. >> * Drew Rodman will be converting pipermail to use SQL (rather than >> pickles) for storing data and creating an upgrade script to help users >> migrate their archives to the new format. He's even hoping to get >> Stable URLs working by the end of the summer! > >Was the plan to use SQLite? Or the choices (and it should be a >choice) of MySQL / Postgres? My preference would be to use the Storm ORM, which is what the engine uses. By default, that would be backed by SQLite3 since Python comes with that support out of the box. But it should also be possible to fairly easily change the backend to be MySQL or PostgreSQL with the change of a database URL. >> * Dushyant Bansal (dushyant on IRC) will be working on the interface of >> the archives, integrating work from Yian and Priya's GSoC projects last >> summer and getting it all ready to go for Mailman 3. > >Nifty. > >> I'm really excited to have all these great projects and great students! > >You're not the only one. > >> While the students do have a set of official mentors (Barry, Florian, >> Anna and me), you're all encouraged to help out throughout the summer. >> The end goal is to have some fully integrated awesomeness, so don't be >> shy if you've got questions, suggestions, etc. > >My suggestions from last year are still pertinent ;o) > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/adamamyl/4484703864/ I am a really crappy web ui designer ;), so fortunately we have great folks like Terri and Florian to help lead those efforts. If you like working on web ui technologies, please do get involved. >> If you've been lurking here wondering how to get involved with Mailman >> 3, now might be a great time: we've got mentors who've already set aside >> time to be involved this summer, and we've got students who could >> benefit from having more people involved in development effort over the >> next few months. For example, we discovered while our students were >> writing patches that we don't have a great description of the Mailman 3 >> install process, so if you want to install it and write up your >> experiences on the wiki (or just in a blog post we can link to!), that's >> a great place to start! > >Is it too early to start thinking about Operating System/Distro >packagers/maintainers, for MM3? Nope. I've been thinking about putting together a Debian/Ubuntu package, at least in my PPA for MM3 3.0.0a7. If you're interested in doing that or any other distro packaging, let's discuss on this mailing list. Cheers, -Barry -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: not available URL: From benedict.stein at googlemail.com Wed Apr 27 09:25:58 2011 From: benedict.stein at googlemail.com (Benedict Stein) Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2011 09:25:58 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Welcome to our Google Summer of Code Students! In-Reply-To: <4DB79572.7000306@zone12.com> References: <4DB79572.7000306@zone12.com> Message-ID: Thanks for the welcome, I've updated my proposal page on the wiki - which now lists the ToDo list http://wiki.list.org/display/DEV/benste%27s+GSoc+2011+-+page Really hope to start asap, but for now I'm a little bit busy learning for my exams. @*Taciano are you sure you want to share your postal adress and phone number on a public wiki ?? * Einen sch?nen Tag w?nscht: Benedict Stein (versendet ?ber Gmail-Webinterface) 2011/4/27 Terri Oda > I hope you'll all join me in welcoming our new Google Summer of Code > students: > > * Benedict Stein (benste on IRC) will be working to complete the GSoC work > Anna did last summer on the django-based web UI for Mailman 3.0. > > * Drew Rodman will be converting pipermail to use SQL (rather than pickles) > for storing data and creating an upgrade script to help users migrate their > archives to the new format. He's even hoping to get Stable URLs working by > the end of the summer! > > * Dushyant Bansal (dushyant on IRC) will be working on the interface of the > archives, integrating work from Yian and Priya's GSoC projects last summer > and getting it all ready to go for Mailman 3. > > I'm really excited to have all these great projects and great students! > > While the students do have a set of official mentors (Barry, Florian, Anna > and me), you're all encouraged to help out throughout the summer. The end > goal is to have some fully integrated awesomeness, so don't be shy if you've > got questions, suggestions, etc. > > If you've been lurking here wondering how to get involved with Mailman 3, > now might be a great time: we've got mentors who've already set aside time > to be involved this summer, and we've got students who could benefit from > having more people involved in development effort over the next few months. > For example, we discovered while our students were writing patches that we > don't have a great description of the Mailman 3 install process, so if you > want to install it and write up your experiences on the wiki (or just in a > blog post we can link to!), that's a great place to start! > > Terri > _______________________________________________ > Mailman-Developers mailing list > Mailman-Developers at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers > Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 > Searchable Archives: > http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-developers%40python.org/ > Unsubscribe: > http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-developers/benedict.stein%40googlemail.com > > Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 > From benedict.stein at googlemail.com Wed Apr 27 12:12:19 2011 From: benedict.stein at googlemail.com (Benedict Stein) Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2011 12:12:19 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Welcome to our Google Summer of Code Students! In-Reply-To: <20110427095727.GK22964@hendricks.amyl.org.uk> References: <4DB79572.7000306@zone12.com> <20110427095727.GK22964@hendricks.amyl.org.uk> Message-ID: <1303899140.2398.6.camel@vaio-fe31m> HI Adam, why don't you upload your idea to your ideas page in the wiki ? :-) http://wiki.list.org/display/DEV/Web+UI+Mockups Regarding the installation - will take some time, but i already started taking notes on how to get the Django 3.0 WebUI working on top of the Mailman part, I'd be fine sharing this notes with all of you, but it turns out that there are a few bugs in the UI which need to be patched first (patches are already in LP) If someone else would write a how-to install mailman3.0 it would be brilliant. Regarding the packaging - i don't know the mailman project in detail yet, but i think it's a bit to early, you could start adding a PPA to the projects site owning a few DEB package drafts - this would speedup installing in Ubuntu / Debian a lot Am Mittwoch, den 27.04.2011, 10:57 +0100 schrieb Adam McGreggor: > On Wed, Apr 27, 2011 at 12:02:58AM -0400, Terri Oda wrote: > > I hope you'll all join me in welcoming our new Google Summer of Code > > students: > > Awesome news. > > > * Benedict Stein (benste on IRC) will be working to complete the GSoC > > work Anna did last summer on the django-based web UI for Mailman 3.0. > > 'Complete' sounds interesting. Is that pretty achievable? I can't > believe it's almost been a year. > > > * Drew Rodman will be converting pipermail to use SQL (rather than > > pickles) for storing data and creating an upgrade script to help users > > migrate their archives to the new format. He's even hoping to get > > Stable URLs working by the end of the summer! > > Was the plan to use SQLite? Or the choices (and it should be a > choice) of MySQL / Postgres? > > > * Dushyant Bansal (dushyant on IRC) will be working on the interface of > > the archives, integrating work from Yian and Priya's GSoC projects last > > summer and getting it all ready to go for Mailman 3. > > Nifty. > > > I'm really excited to have all these great projects and great students! > > You're not the only one. > > > While the students do have a set of official mentors (Barry, Florian, > > Anna and me), you're all encouraged to help out throughout the summer. > > The end goal is to have some fully integrated awesomeness, so don't be > > shy if you've got questions, suggestions, etc. > > > My suggestions from last year are still pertinent ;o) > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/adamamyl/4484703864/ > > > If you've been lurking here wondering how to get involved with Mailman > > 3, now might be a great time: we've got mentors who've already set aside > > time to be involved this summer, and we've got students who could > > benefit from having more people involved in development effort over the > > next few months. For example, we discovered while our students were > > writing patches that we don't have a great description of the Mailman 3 > > install process, so if you want to install it and write up your > > experiences on the wiki (or just in a blog post we can link to!), that's > > a great place to start! > > Is it too early to start thinking about Operating System/Distro > packagers/maintainers, for MM3? > -- Einen sch?nen Tag w?nscht: Benedict Stein -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: face-smile.png Type: image/png Size: 1057 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From barry at list.org Wed Apr 27 17:22:08 2011 From: barry at list.org (Barry Warsaw) Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2011 11:22:08 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Welcome to our Google Summer of Code Students! In-Reply-To: <1303899140.2398.6.camel@vaio-fe31m> References: <4DB79572.7000306@zone12.com> <20110427095727.GK22964@hendricks.amyl.org.uk> <1303899140.2398.6.camel@vaio-fe31m> Message-ID: <20110427112208.000c519f@neurotica.wooz.org> On Apr 27, 2011, at 12:12 PM, Benedict Stein wrote: >If someone else would write a how-to install mailman3.0 it would be >brilliant. I'm planning to write up some docs on this before I release alpha 7. -Barry -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: not available URL: From barry at list.org Fri Apr 29 17:45:38 2011 From: barry at list.org (Barry Warsaw) Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2011 11:45:38 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Call for volunteers: convert wiki to Moin Message-ID: <20110429114538.09c4e806@neurotica.wooz.org> For many years, Atlassian has provided the GNU Mailman project with free (as in beer) wiki hosting on their proprietary platform. This has included a free license, free hosting, and free support. We are very grateful to them for this, as our wiki contains lots of useful information that help you, the members of our Mailman community. The current wiki was offered to us at a time when we didn't really have any other options. However, GNU Mailman is free software and a GNU project, so it is not appropriate for us to be hosting our wiki on non-free software. We have offers for hosting a new wiki on Moin a very excellent free wiki engine written in Python. The major hurdle is actually finding the resources to do a high-fidelity conversion from the current wiki to Moin, retaining as much of the current feature set, layout, and history as possible during the migration. None of the core Mailman developers has time to do this, though we will support the effort. We tried, but were unable to get a slot in this year's Google Summer of Code for the conversion work. Now the FSF has put out a call for volunteers: http://tinyurl.com/3gnaurt If you'd like to help GNU Mailman in this way, please contact the FSF at info at fsf.org. We will provide as full a data dump from the current wiki as possible, and guidance for requirements, etc., and the Moin developers have graciously made themselves available to help with the technical details. Your conversion work will of course be free software itself, so it will help Moin and other free software projects wanting to do similar conversions. I hope you'll consider help us out with this. Cheers, -Barry -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: not available URL: From stephen at xemacs.org Fri Apr 29 20:01:25 2011 From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull) Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2011 03:01:25 +0900 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Call for volunteers: convert wiki to Moin In-Reply-To: <20110429114538.09c4e806@neurotica.wooz.org> References: <20110429114538.09c4e806@neurotica.wooz.org> Message-ID: <87sjt17x8q.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> Barry Warsaw writes: > Now the FSF has put out a call for volunteers: > > http://tinyurl.com/3gnaurt Do you have hardware and admins to host the wiki? The FSF does not have the resources to provide the services you've become used to .... From p at state-of-mind.de Fri Apr 29 20:00:40 2011 From: p at state-of-mind.de (Patrick Ben Koetter) Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2011 20:00:40 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Call for volunteers: convert wiki to Moin In-Reply-To: <87sjt17x8q.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> References: <20110429114538.09c4e806@neurotica.wooz.org> <87sjt17x8q.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> Message-ID: <20110429180040.GE2435@state-of-mind.de> * Stephen J. Turnbull : > Barry Warsaw writes: > > > Now the FSF has put out a call for volunteers: > > > > http://tinyurl.com/3gnaurt > > Do you have hardware and admins to host the wiki? The FSF does not > have the resources to provide the services you've become used to .... Quoting from Barrys original post: We have offers for hosting a new wiki on Moin a very excellent free wiki engine written in Python. I guess he has. p at rick -- state of mind Digitale Kommunikation http://www.state-of-mind.de Franziskanerstra?e 15 Telefon +49 89 3090 4664 81669 M?nchen Telefax +49 89 3090 4666 Amtsgericht M?nchen Partnerschaftsregister PR 563 From barry at list.org Fri Apr 29 20:06:16 2011 From: barry at list.org (Barry Warsaw) Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2011 14:06:16 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Call for volunteers: convert wiki to Moin In-Reply-To: <87sjt17x8q.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> References: <20110429114538.09c4e806@neurotica.wooz.org> <87sjt17x8q.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> Message-ID: <20110429140616.577780dd@neurotica.wooz.org> On Apr 30, 2011, at 03:01 AM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: >Barry Warsaw writes: > > > Now the FSF has put out a call for volunteers: > > > > http://tinyurl.com/3gnaurt > >Do you have hardware and admins to host the wiki? The FSF does not >have the resources to provide the services you've become used to .... The Moin folks have agreed to provide the hardware and admins. -Barry -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: not available URL: From stephen at xemacs.org Fri Apr 29 20:59:11 2011 From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull) Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2011 03:59:11 +0900 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Call for volunteers: convert wiki to Moin In-Reply-To: <20110429140616.577780dd@neurotica.wooz.org> References: <20110429114538.09c4e806@neurotica.wooz.org> <87sjt17x8q.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <20110429140616.577780dd@neurotica.wooz.org> Message-ID: <87pqo4994w.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> Barry Warsaw writes: > The Moin folks have agreed to provide the hardware and admins. I feel much better. Why-yes-I-follow-emacs-devel-since-they-adopted-bzr-why-do-you-ask-ly y'rs, From barry at list.org Fri Apr 29 23:31:54 2011 From: barry at list.org (Barry Warsaw) Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2011 17:31:54 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] RELEASED: Mailman 3.0 alpha 7 Message-ID: <20110429173154.402e4386@neurotica.wooz.org> I am very happy to announce the release of the seventh alpha for Mailman 3.0, code named "Mission". Here are some of the highlights of a release with lots of new stuff (a more detailed NEWS.txt file excerpt is below). * Significant improvements to the subscription model. Users can now subscribe to mailing lists with either an explicit address or a "preferred" address. When a user changes her preferred address, all of her subscriptions automatically track this change. All this and more have also all been exposed to the REST API. * New rules for member and non-member moderation. This effectively ports and updates Mailman 2's moderation rules to the Mailman 3 framework. * Support for SMTP AUTH added. * The default password encryption scheme can be defined in the configuration file, and all passwords are by default encrypted (using SSHA1). * 'bin/mailman status' command added to provide command line status of the master queue runner process. * 'bin/mailman info' now prints the REST API root url and credentials. * Basic Auth support for the REST API was added. (thanks Jimmy Bergman) * Python 2.7 is supported. I'm really excited about this release because it will provide a great baseline for our Google Summer of Code students. If you've been putting off taking a look at Mailman 3, I encourage you to download it and play with it. My goal is for a final release on 11.11.11 so there will not be too many more alphas. Now is the best time to influence our design decisions. The tarball can be downloaded from Launchpad or the Cheeseshop: https://launchpad.net/mailman http://pypi.python.org/pypi/mailman The full documentation is also online: http://packages.python.org/mailman/docs/README.html Enjoy, -Barry 3.0 alpha 7 -- "Mission" ======================== (2011-04-29) Architecture ------------ * Significant updates to the subscription model. Members can now subscribe with a preferred address, and changes to that will be immediately reflected in mailing list subscriptions. Users who subscribe with an explicit address can easily change to a different address, as long as that address is verified. (LP: #643949) * IUsers and IMembers are now assigned a unique, random, immutable id. * IUsers now have created_on and .preferred_address properties. * IMembers now have a .user attribute for easy access to the subscribed user. * When created with add_member(), passwords are always stored encrypted. * In all interfaces, "email" refers to the textual email address while "address" refers to the `IAddress` object. * mailman.chains.base.Chain no longer self registers. * New member and nonmember moderation rules and chains. This effectively ports moderation rules from Mailman 2 and replaces attributes such as member_moderation_action, default_member_moderation, and generic_nonmember_action. Now, nonmembers exist as subscriptions on a mailing list and members have a moderation_action attribute which describes the disposition for postings from that address. * Member.is_moderated was removed because of the above change. * default_member_action and default_nonmember_action were added to mailing lists. * All sender addresses are registered (unverified) with the user manager by the incoming queue runner. This way, nonmember moderation rules will always have an IAddress that they can subscribe to the list (as MemberRole.nonmember). * Support for SMTP AUTH added via smtp_user and smtp_pass configuration variables in the [mta] section. (LP: #490044) * IEmailValidator interface for pluggable validation of email addresses. * .subscribe() is moved from the IAddress to the IMailingList * IAddresses get their registered_on attribute set when the object is created. Configuration ------------- * [devmode] section gets a new 'testing' variable. * Added password_scheme and password_length settings for defining the default password encryption scheme. * creator_pw_file and site_pw_file are removed. Commands -------- * 'bin/mailman start' does a better job of producing an error when Mailman is already running. * 'bin/mailman status' added for providing command line status on the master queue runner watcher process. * 'bin/mailman info' now prints the REST root url and credentials. * mmsitepass removed; there is no more site password. REST ---- * Add Basic Auth support for REST API security. (Jimmy Bergman) * Include the fqdn_listname and email address in the member JSON representation. * Added reply_goes_to_list, send_welcome_msg, welcome_msg, default_member_moderation to the mailing list's writable attributes in the REST service. (Jimmy Bergman) * Expose the new membership model to the REST API. Canonical member resource URLs are now much shorter and live in their own top-level namespace instead of within the mailing list's namespace. * /addresses//memberships gets all the memberships for a given email address. * /users is a new top-level URL under which user information can be accessed. Posting to this creates new users. * Users can subscribe to mailing lists through the REST API. * Domains can be deleted via the REST API. * PUT and PATCH to a list configuration now returns a 204 (No Content). Build ----- * Support Python 2.7. (LP: #667472) * Disable site-packages in buildout.cfg because of LP: #659231. * Don't include eggs/ or parts/ in the source tarball. (LP: #656946) * flufl.lock is now required instead of locknix. Bugs fixed ---------- * Typo in scan_message(). (LP: #645897) * Typo in add_member(). (LP: #710182) (Florian Fuchs) * Re-enable bounce detectors. (LP: #756943) * Clean up many pyflakes problems; ditching pylint. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: not available URL: