From damien.ulrich at domosys.org Mon Apr 9 11:32:08 2007 From: damien.ulrich at domosys.org (Damien Ulrich) Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2007 11:32:08 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] WebUI Message-ID: <200704091132.09112.damien.ulrich@domosys.org> Hi all, First of all, thanks for this great system !! The templates pages and other generated one have integrated design ex : table bgcolor="#FFFFFF" I propose to transform html pages with "div" formatting to separate code and design. Example in joint- files On the other hand, has anyone thought of transformation of the mails into XML files storage (piped postfix posting as it actually is) ? We could then transform them into XHTML with XSLT, to have a forum-like archives browsing, [or to have a blog system (with comments posting)], keeping the mailing-list feature. I think you already thought of that. Humbly Dams -- -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: mailman.css Type: text/css Size: 772 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-developers/attachments/20070409/39c0a55a/attachment.css -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-developers/attachments/20070409/39c0a55a/attachment.pgp From fred at kwotidian.com Tue Apr 10 15:45:26 2007 From: fred at kwotidian.com (Fred Leber) Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2007 09:45:26 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] kwotidian.com Message-ID: <000b01c77b76$84ed2580$2f01a8c0@TOSHIBA> Dear Mailman Developers, I am looking to put together a team for Kwotidian.com, a startup which will create and distribute bilingual language development email. Kwotidian will use Mailman and we need 1-3 persons to handle the technical side. The idea for Kwotidian began with a company named Wordburger in 1999. Wordburger sent out bite-size, witty, bilingual language lessons. Subscribers learned a few useful English words each day. Wordburger grew rapidly to 140,000 subscribers who wanted to learn or improve their English, 95% of whom were in non-English speaking countries. Our most successful edition was the Chinese, with 55,000 subscribers. We shut down in 2001 because our primary revenue model at that time was advertising and the reputation of internet advertising had gone down the drain. Now we intend to try again. The goal is not to have hundreds of thousands of subscribers - it is to have millions of subscribers. Kwotidian.com needs a small team whose essential ingredient is enthusiasm and energy. Mailman and html experience would be good and experience with international character set encodings would be desirable but not essential. Kwotidian is not yet operational but the basic idea and a sample Kwotidian daily message can be seen at kwotidian.com. Please get in touch with me if you are interested. I will be glad to provide more details. Fred Leber Williamstown, Massachusetts USA fred at kwotidian.com From tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp Wed Apr 11 02:13:11 2007 From: tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp (Tokio Kikuchi) Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2007 09:13:11 +0900 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] [Mailman-Users] [Fwd: TypeError: us-ascii with python2.4 and mailman 2.1.8-1 (debian)] In-Reply-To: <1176248667.7789.8.camel@localhost> References: <1176248667.7789.8.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <461C2817.2030203@is.kochi-u.ac.jp> Hi developers, This particular problem is caused by a bug in email 4.0.1 package which was fixed in the most recent subversion repository. http://svn.python.org/view/python/trunk/Lib/email/message.py?rev=54333&r1=50840&r2=54333 Maybe it's time to think of next bug fix release of mailman 2.1.10 as soon as the email 4.0.2(?) is out. Justin Warren wrote: > Hi folks, > > I hit the same sort of problem as a couple of other people apparently > have, eg: > > http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2006-November/054246.html > > I hit this when Mailman attempts to send digests. > > I thought I'd tracked the issue to the way Charset is used within > Mailman/Scrubber.py, on line 193 (some modifications by me to print > debug output): > > charset = None > lcset = Utils.GetCharSet(mlist.preferred_language) > print "getting charset for preferred language:", repr(lcset) > lcset_out = Charset(lcset).output_charset or lcset > print "lcset_out is:", repr(lcset_out) > > Which yields: > > getting charset for preferred language: 'us-ascii' > lcset_out is: u'us-ascii' > > It appears that Charset returns a unicode string for > its .output_charset, which python2.4 email.Message.set_charset() does > not recognise as a string, and it isn't a Charset either, so a TypeError > is raised. > > I don't know enough about why .output_charset is being used, or why it > is unicode, but it seems that changing line 193 to read: > > lcset_out = Charset(lcset) or lcset > > would prevent this error. > > However, something else is also returning a unicode string, since after > changing Scrubber, you end up with this error: > > Traceback (most recent call last): > File "/usr/lib/mailman/cron/senddigests", line 94, in ? > main() > File "/usr/lib/mailman/cron/senddigests", line 86, in main > mlist.send_digest_now() > File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Digester.py", line 60, in send_digest_now > ToDigest.send_digests(self, mboxfp) > File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/ToDigest.py", line 142, in send_digests > send_i18n_digests(mlist, mboxfp) > File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/ToDigest.py", line 339, in send_i18n_digests > mcset = msg.get_content_charset('') > File "/usr/lib/python2.4/email/Message.py", line 805, in get_content_charset > charset = unicode(charset, 'us-ascii').encode('us-ascii') > TypeError: decoding Unicode is not supported > > I haven't worked out what this other thing is as yet. > > Alternately, patching email/Message.py (line 803) to ignore a charset > that is a unicode string seems to work, but is probably fragile or > broken in other ways: > > # charset character must be in us-ascii range > try: > if not isinstance(charset, unicode): > charset = unicode(charset, 'us-ascii').encode('us-ascii') > except UnicodeError: > return failobj > > I hope this helps someone more knowledgable about Mailman to work out > what the underlying problem is. > -- Tokio Kikuchi, tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp http://weather.is.kochi-u.ac.jp/ From msapiro at value.net Wed Apr 11 02:29:39 2007 From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2007 17:29:39 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] [Mailman-Users] [Fwd: TypeError: us-asciiwith python2.4 and mailman 2.1.8-1 (debian)] In-Reply-To: <461C2817.2030203@is.kochi-u.ac.jp> Message-ID: Tokio Kikuchi wrote: >Hi developers, > >This particular problem is caused by a bug in email 4.0.1 package which >was fixed in the most recent subversion repository. >http://svn.python.org/view/python/trunk/Lib/email/message.py?rev=54333&r1=50840&r2=54333 > >Maybe it's time to think of next bug fix release of mailman 2.1.10 as >soon as the email 4.0.2(?) is out. But Mailman 2.1.x ships with and should be installed with the email 2.5.x branch, so unless this bug was also introduced and subsequently fixed in that branch as well, it shouldn't affect a properly installed Mailman. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp Wed Apr 11 02:51:07 2007 From: tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp (Tokio Kikuchi) Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2007 09:51:07 +0900 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] [Mailman-Users] [Fwd: TypeError: us-asciiwith python2.4 and mailman 2.1.8-1 (debian)] In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <461C30FB.8050703@is.kochi-u.ac.jp> Mark Sapiro wrote: > Tokio Kikuchi wrote: > >> Hi developers, >> >> This particular problem is caused by a bug in email 4.0.1 package which >> was fixed in the most recent subversion repository. >> http://svn.python.org/view/python/trunk/Lib/email/message.py?rev=54333&r1=50840&r2=54333 >> >> Maybe it's time to think of next bug fix release of mailman 2.1.10 as >> soon as the email 4.0.2(?) is out. > > > But Mailman 2.1.x ships with and should be installed with the email > 2.5.x branch, so unless this bug was also introduced and subsequently > fixed in that branch as well, it shouldn't affect a properly installed > Mailman. > Oh yes, you're right, Mark. I was too much involved in mailman 2.2 which will be shipped with email 4.0.x. Perhaps, we should make warning against package distributers that 'misc' directory (pythonlib) in the mailman source tree can't be omitted. BTW, I'm looking forward to see email 4.0.2 out. ;-) -- Tokio Kikuchi, tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp http://weather.is.kochi-u.ac.jp/ From Jeff.Kunzelman at dhl.com Thu Apr 12 18:48:28 2007 From: Jeff.Kunzelman at dhl.com (Jeff Kunzelman (DHL)) Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2007 09:48:28 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Determining if a user or list has moderation Message-ID: <83EB3FBBDF867245A54F47D4136B68C5359C54@PHXDCEX012.phx-dc.dhl.com> I'm trying to write a script to determine what lists have users that have moderation turned on. I found the following example in the list archives using the withlist command from Mailman import mm_cfg def list_moderated(m): for member in m.getMembers(): if m.getMemberOption(member, mm_cfg.Moderate): print member However when I run the command: withlist -q -r checkModerated.py jww_test I get the following error: Traceback (most recent call last): File "/home/mailman/bin/withlist", line 297, in ? main() File "/home/mailman/bin/withlist", line 269, in main func = getattr(mod, callable) AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'py' This seems pretty simple to me, but I don't have any python experience, this is my first brush with python. I do know perl, java and assorted other programming languages but you have to start somewhere when learning something new. Any help would be appreciated. Or you can forward this to your co-workers to make fun of the n00b. Jeff Kunzelman Principal Systems Engineer - Messaging Infrastructure DHL Worldwide Express - AMIS 8701 East Hartford Drive Scottsdale, AZ 85255 USA From msapiro at value.net Fri Apr 13 06:43:31 2007 From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2007 21:43:31 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Determining if a user or list has moderation In-Reply-To: <83EB3FBBDF867245A54F47D4136B68C5359C54@PHXDCEX012.phx-dc.dhl.com> Message-ID: Jeff Kunzelman (DHL) wrote: > >However when I run the command: > >withlist -q -r checkModerated.py jww_test > >I get the following error: >Traceback (most recent call last): > File "/home/mailman/bin/withlist", line 297, in ? > main() > File "/home/mailman/bin/withlist", line 269, in main > func = getattr(mod, callable) >AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'py' The help for withlist says --run [module.]callable -r [module.]callable I realize this is cryptic, but in your case (module file name = checkModerated.py; function name/callable = list_moderated) it means the withlist command needs to be withlist -q -r checkModerated.list_moderated jww_test Note that the 'module name' does not include the .py suffix of the file name. Alternatively, if you named the file list_moderated.py, you could run it with withlist -q -r list_moderated jww_test -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From intothemist at gmail.com Fri Apr 13 06:43:26 2007 From: intothemist at gmail.com (andy nicholson) Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2007 14:43:26 +1000 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Determining if a user or list has moderation In-Reply-To: <83EB3FBBDF867245A54F47D4136B68C5359C54@PHXDCEX012.phx-dc.dhl.com> References: <83EB3FBBDF867245A54F47D4136B68C5359C54@PHXDCEX012.phx-dc.dhl.com> Message-ID: <675946ff0704122143o463193f9ja29faec57d04ca49@mail.gmail.com> Hi You are calling the 'withlist' command wrong. You havent specified what you put into the checkModerated.py script, but thats kinda by the by, since from "withlist -h": -r [module.]callable This can be used to run a script with the opened MailList object. This works by attempting to import `module' (which must be in the directory containing withlist, or already be accessible on your sys.path), and then calling `callable' from the module. callable can be a class or function; it is called with the MailList object as the first argument. If additional args are given on the command line, they are passed as subsequent positional args to the callable. Note that `module.' is optional; if it is omitted then a module with the name `callable' will be imported. The global variable `r' will be set to the results of this call. if you use "-r" you need to call a function, not give it a script name (hence the error .. no ".py" attribute) keep reading down that help screen, and .. " As another example, say you wanted to change the password for a particular user on a particular list. You could put the following function in a file called `changepw.py': from Mailman.Errors import NotAMemberError def changepw(mlist, addr, newpasswd): try: mlist.setMemberPassword(addr, newpasswd) mlist.Save() except NotAMemberError: print 'No address matched:', addr and run this from the command line: % bin/withlist -l -r changepw mylist somebody at somewhere.org foobar " hope that helps ;) andy On 13/04/07, Jeff Kunzelman (DHL) wrote: > > I'm trying to write a script to determine what lists have users that > have moderation turned on. I found the following example in the list > archives using the withlist command > > > from Mailman import mm_cfg > > def list_moderated(m): > for member in m.getMembers(): > if m.getMemberOption(member, mm_cfg.Moderate): > print member > > However when I run the command: > > withlist -q -r checkModerated.py jww_test > > I get the following error: > Traceback (most recent call last): > File "/home/mailman/bin/withlist", line 297, in ? > main() > File "/home/mailman/bin/withlist", line 269, in main > func = getattr(mod, callable) > AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'py' > > This seems pretty simple to me, but I don't have any python experience, > this is my first brush with python. I do know perl, java and assorted > other programming languages but you have to start somewhere when > learning something new. Any help would be appreciated. Or you can > forward this to your co-workers to make fun of the n00b. > > > Jeff Kunzelman > Principal Systems Engineer - Messaging Infrastructure > DHL Worldwide Express - AMIS > 8701 East Hartford Drive > Scottsdale, AZ 85255 > USA > > > _______________________________________________ > Mailman-Developers mailing list > Mailman-Developers at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers > Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py > Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-developers%40python.org/ > Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-developers/intothemist%40gmail.com > > Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp > -- andy nicholson +61 406 306 715 From Jeff.Kunzelman at dhl.com Fri Apr 13 19:58:12 2007 From: Jeff.Kunzelman at dhl.com (Jeff Kunzelman (DHL)) Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2007 10:58:12 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Determining if a user or list has moderation In-Reply-To: References: <83EB3FBBDF867245A54F47D4136B68C5359C54@PHXDCEX012.phx-dc.dhl.com> Message-ID: <83EB3FBBDF867245A54F47D4136B68C5359C80@PHXDCEX012.phx-dc.dhl.com> This answered my question, thanks a lot! Is there an api anywhere that has a full list of all the objects you can use in mailman? -----Original Message----- From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:msapiro at value.net] Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2007 9:44 PM To: Jeff Kunzelman (DHL); mailman-developers at python.org Subject: Re: [Mailman-Developers] Determining if a user or list has moderation Jeff Kunzelman (DHL) wrote: > >However when I run the command: > >withlist -q -r checkModerated.py jww_test > >I get the following error: >Traceback (most recent call last): > File "/home/mailman/bin/withlist", line 297, in ? > main() > File "/home/mailman/bin/withlist", line 269, in main > func = getattr(mod, callable) >AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'py' The help for withlist says --run [module.]callable -r [module.]callable I realize this is cryptic, but in your case (module file name = checkModerated.py; function name/callable = list_moderated) it means the withlist command needs to be withlist -q -r checkModerated.list_moderated jww_test Note that the 'module name' does not include the .py suffix of the file name. Alternatively, if you named the file list_moderated.py, you could run it with withlist -q -r list_moderated jww_test -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From barry at python.org Fri Apr 13 20:07:36 2007 From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw) Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2007 14:07:36 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Determining if a user or list has moderation In-Reply-To: <83EB3FBBDF867245A54F47D4136B68C5359C80@PHXDCEX012.phx-dc.dhl.com> References: <83EB3FBBDF867245A54F47D4136B68C5359C54@PHXDCEX012.phx-dc.dhl.com> <83EB3FBBDF867245A54F47D4136B68C5359C80@PHXDCEX012.phx-dc.dhl.com> Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Apr 13, 2007, at 1:58 PM, Jeff Kunzelman (DHL) wrote: > This answered my question, thanks a lot! > > Is there an api anywhere that has a full list of all the objects you > can use in mailman? Not in Mailman 2.1. We'll do better next time! I have a bunch of uncommitted changes that will start to use formal zope.interfaces to document the important APIs. - -Barry -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (Darwin) iQCVAwUBRh/G6XEjvBPtnXfVAQLpFAQArxnYzhgm4j8wovitx+8ZtKEWzvf9pIq2 Q9OB1n8dF58Rym/l6Z9FVATeSOVsGr5ktiMw+Df6fMGmMz06sROpq27uiHEEvYtz zVZx3Z0galeJXeQP+NR4DodRN5wY1ftsrCItJWOLTLBRd8geRxtPcUGqljhCiaND Bgp72cKzHjw= =ZeWa -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From Jeff.Kunzelman at dhl.com Mon Apr 16 18:58:34 2007 From: Jeff.Kunzelman at dhl.com (Jeff Kunzelman (DHL)) Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2007 09:58:34 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Determining if a user or list has moderation In-Reply-To: References: <83EB3FBBDF867245A54F47D4136B68C5359C54@PHXDCEX012.phx-dc.dhl.com> Message-ID: <83EB3FBBDF867245A54F47D4136B68C5359C8C@PHXDCEX012.phx-dc.dhl.com> Just wanted to post my quick and dirty solution to reporting on moderated lists. I wrote a perl script to execute the withlist command with output from the list_lists command: ### Begin Perl ### #!/usr/bin/perl # open file open(FILE, "listsTest.txt") or die("Unable to open file"); # read file into an array @lists = ; # close file close(FILE); foreach $line (@lists) { my @listname = split(/\s-\s/, $line); @listname[0] =~ s/\s//g; $moderators = `./withlist -q -r checkModerated.list_moderated $listname[0]`; if (length($moderators) > 0) { print $listname[0], " Moderated Users \n"; } else { print $listname[0], " No Moderated Users \n"; } } ### end ### My python script to find the moderated users: ### begin python #### from Mailman import mm_cfg def list_moderated(m): for member in m.getMembers(): if m.getMemberOption(member, mm_cfg.Moderate): print member ### end ### Thanks for answers to my questions!!! -----Original Message----- From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:msapiro at value.net] Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2007 9:44 PM To: Jeff Kunzelman (DHL); mailman-developers at python.org Subject: Re: [Mailman-Developers] Determining if a user or list has moderation Jeff Kunzelman (DHL) wrote: > >However when I run the command: > >withlist -q -r checkModerated.py jww_test > >I get the following error: >Traceback (most recent call last): > File "/home/mailman/bin/withlist", line 297, in ? > main() > File "/home/mailman/bin/withlist", line 269, in main > func = getattr(mod, callable) >AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'py' The help for withlist says --run [module.]callable -r [module.]callable I realize this is cryptic, but in your case (module file name = checkModerated.py; function name/callable = list_moderated) it means the withlist command needs to be withlist -q -r checkModerated.list_moderated jww_test Note that the 'module name' does not include the .py suffix of the file name. Alternatively, if you named the file list_moderated.py, you could run it with withlist -q -r list_moderated jww_test -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From linux at zamirfamily.com Mon Apr 23 17:04:36 2007 From: linux at zamirfamily.com (Dov Zamir) Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 18:04:36 +0300 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] [Mailman-i18n] Hebrew Mailman Support In-Reply-To: <4617AA95.2090602@zamirfamily.com> References: <4634.88.155.215.223.1174402444.squirrel@webmail.beitkama.org.il> <232F5C14-C9B8-4025-996F-73077C89BA6F@python.org> <4617AA95.2090602@zamirfamily.com> Message-ID: <462CCB04.8030701@zamirfamily.com> Hi all, I am resending this email, as well as to the other mailing lists, since I have received zero feedback since sending the original over two weeks ago. Should I assume there is no interest in this translation, and just keep it for my own sites? ????? Dov Zamir: > ????? Barry Warsaw: > >> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >> Hash: SHA1 >> >> >> It's probably best to open a patch issue on SourceForge and attach >> your .po file to the patch. Then send a link to that issue here. >> One of us will pull it into svn from there. >> > > I have just uploaded the Hebrew translation files to Sourceforge as > issue number 1696053. Here is the attached description: > > Attached are the Hebrew files for Mailman 2.1.9 > I added a parameter to the LC_DESCRIPTION function, and these are the > files > that are affected by the addition of 'direction' to the 'LC_DESCRIPTION' > function. They have been changed, and diffs are attached... > > ./Mailman/Cgi/create.py > ./Mailman/Defaults.py.in > ./Mailman/Defaults.py > ./Mailman/Utils.py > ./messages/es/README.es > ./messages/ja/README.ja > ./messages/ja/doc/Defaults.py.in > ./messages/eu/README.eu > > Likewise, all translation files are attached. > > There is still a problem displaying command line output in the correct > direction. Still looking for a solution... > !DSPAM:506,4617aaa384346205613798! > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Mailman-i18n mailing list > Posts: Mailman-i18n at python.org > Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-i18n/linux%40zamirfamily.com > > > !DSPAM:506,4617aaa384346205613798! > From barry at python.org Mon Apr 23 18:48:09 2007 From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw) Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 12:48:09 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] [Mailman-i18n] Hebrew Mailman Support In-Reply-To: <462CCB04.8030701@zamirfamily.com> References: <4634.88.155.215.223.1174402444.squirrel@webmail.beitkama.org.il> <232F5C14-C9B8-4025-996F-73077C89BA6F@python.org> <4617AA95.2090602@zamirfamily.com> <462CCB04.8030701@zamirfamily.com> Message-ID: <552B238A-6C13-47DD-928A-3EE0540B1B9D@python.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Apr 23, 2007, at 11:04 AM, Dov Zamir wrote: > I am resending this email, as well as to the other mailing lists, > since > I have received zero feedback since sending the original over two > weeks ago. > > > Should I assume there is no interest in this translation, and just > keep > it for my own sites? Dov, I'm sorry. It's definitely been on my list of things to do, but I just haven't had time yet. We will definitely get it in for a Mailman 2.1.10 release. Thanks, - -Barry -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (Darwin) iQCVAwUBRizjT3EjvBPtnXfVAQJ1BQP/akGQ0hxsT3Kl9p+xfuhOtQV7HUSnXQdr boA4uvfGtB1mN/yRC3YQklDPaklSgLowx+WMKxNcloxWkVgWoT8ywi/8a4uLm5II 2OdHIBUT6iqagO3H+qeGQVmaK/MNCZWBRklzcbPyfD5+GDp2aG0arbTVvBJcSzGI 6kugxxXSg4o= =nGX/ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From barry at python.org Fri Apr 27 18:04:40 2007 From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw) Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 12:04:40 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Improving logging Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 I just started a wiki page to collect thoughts about improving logging in the next version of Mailman. Please feel free to comment in the page if you have specific goals for improved logging. http://wiki.list.org/display/DEV/Improved+Logging Cheers, - -Barry -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (Darwin) iQCVAwUBRjIfGXEjvBPtnXfVAQIHOQP9HpztWS32KIlDPdynGaNwi0Etci8zBeQh RcIUNh39MgaNQ/nI8RjJGhVxx6IGbCTUk6wQxB5p8wV5JUuMCIxPARHGi+eqRdwl 4ZV5LPrLqyy2AlczPHfZLt3TOYc3mwqNImq/EjA2uNUwZsq+Xt72y6E5rwFO2MyO Y7qiBOu6Nk0= =xE+I -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From mloftis at wgops.com Fri Apr 27 18:23:07 2007 From: mloftis at wgops.com (Michael Loftis) Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 10:23:07 -0600 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Improving logging In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: --On April 27, 2007 12:04:40 PM -0400 Barry Warsaw wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > I just started a wiki page to collect thoughts about improving > logging in the next version of Mailman. Please feel free to comment > in the page if you have specific goals for improved logging. > > http://wiki.list.org/display/DEV/Improved+Logging I don't see any way to comment, I assume one must register for an account. In any event I've always disliked a single application "needing" some 10 odd different log files. Worse, correlating data between them is nearly impossible. To me it's never made any sense for any application to need to log to a multitude of files. 1-2 is usually more than enough. The situation as it is now would be like apache logging each hit in three or four different logs with differing pieces of information. From barry at python.org Fri Apr 27 19:00:27 2007 From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw) Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 13:00:27 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Improving logging In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0B919EA2-E89A-4D5A-B0D9-AE7710ACA16A@python.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Apr 27, 2007, at 12:23 PM, Michael Loftis wrote: > I don't see any way to comment, I assume one must register for an > account. Sadly, yes this is required in order to minimize wiki spam. Welcome to the internet circa 2007. ;/ Still, I encourage you to register and contribute! > In any event I've always disliked a single application "needing" > some 10 odd different log files. Worse, correlating data between > them is nearly impossible. To me it's never made any sense for any > application to need to log to a multitude of files. 1-2 is usually > more than enough. The situation as it is now would be like apache > logging each hit in three or four different logs with differing > pieces of information. I can definitely see that side of things. One thing that occurs to me now (and I've updated the wiki to reflect) is that it should be possible through the LOG_CONFIG_FILE to point the separate logger outputs to the same log file. You should be able to mix and match them. I haven't tried it, but I believe it will work. Maybe that's enough? Cheers, - -Barry -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (Darwin) iQCVAwUBRjIsLHEjvBPtnXfVAQIXpwP8Dlyi3mVEHlEBIHocLAej4WD0OFwFG35B kR/MDv0qJT81sKrUOj47IE+WQ7zkZbOlABkYh+gHDd2PTmGfIuIx1AvlbNkNAf8/ OXpoopVY9+umkyawK0KNKU3j2ZHVUGJpQOK6Jgbw6DZZ61bT3mT029RItWR5TUA/ ZSbQnbULe14= =Y0oR -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From ACrosman at afsc.org Fri Apr 27 22:53:49 2007 From: ACrosman at afsc.org (Aaron Crosman) Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 16:53:49 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Templating the interface Message-ID: Since Barry suggested that conversation about improving the mailman GUI should be moved here, I thought I'd take a minute to ask a couple starter questions. First, let me say, that I'm willing to do some of the work on this part of the project. In the organization I work for (and run mailman for) the biggest complaints I hear revolve around the interface, and the lack of control over the design, so I'd love to see a proper template system in place. That said, I'm not clear where this project stands. I've been reviewed the summary from last summer's SoC work, and while that's given me some idea of what was done, I don't have a good sense of how and where to get started on helping. Can you all offer some suggestions about what I can do to be helpful and contribute? Aaron From terri at zone12.com Mon Apr 30 17:41:19 2007 From: terri at zone12.com (Terri Oda) Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2007 11:41:19 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Templating the interface In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 27-Apr-07, at 4:53 PM, Aaron Crosman wrote: > That said, I'm not clear where this project stands. I've been > reviewed > the summary from last summer's SoC work, and while that's given me > some > idea of what was done, I don't have a good sense of how and where > to get > started on helping. Can you all offer some suggestions about what > I can > do to be helpful and contribute? I'd also like to know where this stands. I wasn't too sure what was happening after the SoC work finished, but it sounds like we got a lot of good analysis but no clear path to a solution that worked for us. Which is good work, but I'd still like to see some simple templating available even if we can't solve world hunger in the process. ;) I think there may be some good patches out there that at least made our CSS/HTML better. A search of our bug tracker (and probably this list) could turn those up as a potential starting point. Right now, taking a look at the listinfo page for this list turns up a lot of BGCOLOR="#99CCFF" and such, and few divs and such to make changing the look easier. I'd like to see something more modern, HTML-wise, so that changing could be done with a stylesheet. If you've got some time to find existing patches, Aaron, or to produce some, I'd be happy to review and help get these integrated into svn, assuming no one has vast objections to this. Ideally, I think it should be possible to skin mailman just using CSS, so I'd say we should start there. And once that's done, maybe someone could sit down and try making a few different skins so people can have some enriched examples? read: examples with some documentation inline so people can modify them easily. I think that could be a good starting point, since no matter what further templating we want to do, getting workable (X)HTML coming out of the interface seems like it would be a useful step. Terri PS - I'd also like to make our interface more usable, but making it easy to use with stylesheets is a good goal even if we don't change any of the content. :) From jon.reese at inetspec.com Mon Apr 30 00:12:49 2007 From: jon.reese at inetspec.com (Jon Reese) Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2007 17:12:49 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Templating the interface In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <46351861.4060904@inetspec.com> I would also like to lend a hand wherever it is desired as well as offer some suggestions to help with the improvement of the Mailman user interface. Having watched the mailing lists since last November for news about improvements in the user interface and the template system, it was not really surprising that the subject came up again. Bryan has done some excellent work on version 2.1.7 as far as XHTML compliance. Unfortunately there are a number of package related versions that cannot be upgraded easily because the packagers have not brought the RPMs up to date with the current stable release of Mailman (2.1.9). They may have reasons for this, including versions of Python that are supported in various packages as well as their own development cycles and lack of manpower. If I am not mistaken, RHEL3, and CentOS3 are still relegated to Mailman 2.1.5 due to a reliance on an earlier version of Python (again the packagers have not upgraded the RPMs). I have at least two machines that I would like to bring to Mailman 2.1.9, but it would do more harm than good and other factors prevent OS upgrades. Areas where I can help include HTML/CSS/XHTML compliant markup for the user interface templates, extending generic classes into Python coding for inclusion in generic template styles, and perhaps even some built in help hints for the user interface (as part of the templates or Python coding). My desired hopes would include Mailman 2.1.9 support for Python 2.2.3 without patches or changes to Python coding (for users of RHEL3 and CentOS3); Support for a single CSS file to change the look of any single virtual hosted mailing list; customizable administration pages as well as the user pages for a mailing list; full language support integrated throughout the templates; and finally, support for any template / user interface improvements for the current stable release of Mailman (2.1.9). I am in full agreement with Aaron as far as the template system and look forward to further discussion on this topic. Best regards, Jon Reese Aaron Crosman wrote: > Since Barry suggested that conversation about improving the mailman GUI > should be moved here, I thought I'd take a minute to ask a couple > starter questions. > > First, let me say, that I'm willing to do some of the work on this part > of the project. In the organization I work for (and run mailman for) the > biggest complaints I hear revolve around the interface, and the lack of > control over the design, so I'd love to see a proper template system in > place. > > That said, I'm not clear where this project stands. I've been reviewed > the summary from last summer's SoC work, and while that's given me some > idea of what was done, I don't have a good sense of how and where to get > started on helping. Can you all offer some suggestions about what I can > do to be helpful and contribute? > > Aaron >