From msapiro at value.net  Fri Jul  1 03:30:52 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2005 18:30:52 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] blank Cc header?
In-Reply-To: <366743AE-0C0E-4D45-8B4C-41B0B1EBE192@dreamhost.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200506301830520046b7e57bc2@msapiro>

Dallas Bethune wrote:

>One of our users reported that Mailman (2.1.5) sometimes adds blank  
>Cc headers and he sent in a link to this patch to the debian version  
>that claims to fix it:
>
>http://groups-beta.google.com/group/linux.debian.bugs.dist/ 
>browse_thread/thread/38a0746dc3dcae28/8c4d983e785d5548?q=mailman% 
>20cc&rnum=2#8c4d983e785d5548

This is fixed in source (slightly differently than the above patch, but
the patch will do it) in 2.1.6.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From r_correia at telkomsa.net  Fri Jul  1 13:37:59 2005
From: r_correia at telkomsa.net (Rui Correia)
Date: Fri, 1 Jul 2005 13:37:59 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Reply-To Munging Considered Useful
Message-ID: <007d01c57e31$5897fc60$0500000a@Laptop>

Hi

If I click on "Reply-To Munging Considered Useful on
http://mailman.greennet.org.uk/mailman/admin/ct/?VARHELP=general/reply_goes_
to_list, it takes me to http://www.metasystema.org/index.php - unless i've
been hijacked and am being redirected .....

Rui  

________________________________________________
?
?
Rui Correia
Advocacy, Media and Language Consultant
38 Finch St, 
Ontdekkers Park, Roodepoort, 
Johannesburg, South Africa
Tel/ Fax (+27-11) 766-4336
Cell (+27) (0) 83-368-1214






From msapiro at value.net  Fri Jul  1 16:44:20 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 1 Jul 2005 07:44:20 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Reply-To Munging Considered Useful
In-Reply-To: <007d01c57e31$5897fc60$0500000a@Laptop>
Message-ID: <PC1740200507010744200296abf7651c@msapiro>

Rui Correia wrote:
>
>If I click on "Reply-To Munging Considered Useful on
>http://mailman.greennet.org.uk/mailman/admin/ct/?VARHELP=general/reply_goes_
>to_list, it takes me to http://www.metasystema.org/index.php - unless i've
>been hijacked and am being redirected .....

The actual link is to
http://www.metasystema.org/essays/reply-to-useful.mhtml but that site
is dead, thus you get the page you got.

See http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.048.htp

I searched a bit and found the article at
http://www.metasystema.net/essays/reply-to.mhtml

The link should be updated.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From andrew.clark at ucsb.edu  Fri Jul  1 19:30:41 2005
From: andrew.clark at ucsb.edu (Andrew D. Clark)
Date: Fri, 01 Jul 2005 10:30:41 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] UnicodeDecodeError
Message-ID: <5495A747ADF925DBA82B1E9F@modulus.oit.ucsb.edu>

Hi,

I consistently get shunted messages with errors like so in logs/errors:


Jul 01 10:28:39 2005 (26124) Uncaught runner exception: 'ascii' codec 
can't decode byte 0xc5 in position 0: ordinal not in range(128)
Jul 01 10:28:39 2005 (26124) Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/home/services/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 111, in 
_oneloop self._onefile(msg, msgdata)
  File "/home/services/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 167, in 
_onefile
    keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata)
  File "/home/services/mailman/Mailman/Queue/ArchRunner.py", line 73, 
in _dispose
    mlist.ArchiveMail(msg)
  File "/home/services/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/Archiver.py", line 216, 
in ArchiveMail
    h.processUnixMailbox(f)
  File "/home/services/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/pipermail.py", line 
573, in processUnixMailbox
    self.add_article(a)
  File "/home/services/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/pipermail.py", line 
625, in add_article
    article.parentID = parentID = self.get_parent_info(arch, article)
  File "/home/services/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/pipermail.py", line 
657, in get_parent_info
    article.subject)
  File "/home/services/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/HyperDatabase.py", line 
311, in getOldestArticle
    self.__openIndices(archive)
  File "/home/services/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/HyperDatabase.py", line 
251, in __openIndices
    t = DumbBTree(os.path.join(arcdir, archive + '-' + i))
  File "/home/services/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/HyperDatabase.py", line 
65, in __init__
    self.load()
  File "/home/services/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/HyperDatabase.py", line 
179, in load
    self.__sort(dirty=1)
  File "/home/services/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/HyperDatabase.py", line 
73, in __sort
    self.sorted.sort()
UnicodeDecodeError: 'ascii' codec can't decode byte 0xc5 in position 0: 
ordinal not in range(128)

Jul 01 10:28:39 2005 (26124) SHUNTING: 
1119004634.531249+fd4e0ba403a784a3545f4d8e32c66015e33c5870

The message is in GB2312:

%./show_qfiles ../qfiles/shunt/1119004634*
====================> 
../qfiles/shunt/1119004634.531249+fd4e0ba403a784a3545f4d8e32c66015e33c5870.pck
Received: from [61.144.65.81] (helo=service.netease.com)
        by ucsb.edu with esmtp  id 1DjEDp-000Mp5-Se
        for webmaster at ucsb.edu; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 03:37:14 -0700
From: =?GB2312?B?0MLGt73pydw=?= <ivpinfo at service.netease.com>
To: webmaster at ucsb.edu
Content-Type: text/html;charset="GB2312"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
...

Any tips or is this a mailman bug?

--
Andrew Clark
Campus Network Programmer
Office of Information Technology
University of California, Santa Barbara
andrew.clark at ucsb.edu (805) 893-5311

From barry at python.org  Fri Jul  1 20:25:28 2005
From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Fri, 01 Jul 2005 14:25:28 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] UnicodeDecodeError
In-Reply-To: <5495A747ADF925DBA82B1E9F@modulus.oit.ucsb.edu>
References: <5495A747ADF925DBA82B1E9F@modulus.oit.ucsb.edu>
Message-ID: <1120242328.9817.43.camel@geddy.wooz.org>

On Fri, 2005-07-01 at 13:30, Andrew D. Clark wrote:

> I consistently get shunted messages with errors like so in logs/errors:

Andrew, what version of Mailman?  If not 2.1.6, please try to upgrade.

-Barry

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From barry at python.org  Fri Jul  1 22:05:32 2005
From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Fri, 01 Jul 2005 16:05:32 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Reply-To Munging Considered Useful
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200507010744200296abf7651c@msapiro>
References: <PC1740200507010744200296abf7651c@msapiro>
Message-ID: <1120248332.9817.70.camel@geddy.wooz.org>

On Fri, 2005-07-01 at 10:44, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> I searched a bit and found the article at
> http://www.metasystema.net/essays/reply-to.mhtml
> 
> The link should be updated.

Thanks, I've updated the link in CVS.

-Barry

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From michael.dunlap at yale.edu  Fri Jul  1 20:05:22 2005
From: michael.dunlap at yale.edu (Michael Dunlap)
Date: Fri, 01 Jul 2005 14:05:22 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] content filtering bug (text/html and
	text/plain in multipart	emails)
Message-ID: <1120241122.5654.29.camel@sanjiyan.wss.yale.edu>

Hello,

I've been reading the archives and it looks as if the problem of having
content filtering on and passing multi-part emails (plain and html)
isn't really solvable.  One email to the users list summarizes the
problem this way:


> There is a basic design decision in content filtering that makes this
> difficult. Namely, after filtering, only the first remaining sub-part
> from a multipart/alternative part is retained.
> 
> What this means in practice is if you want to allow both text/plain
> parts and text/html parts, the only way to get html to the list is to
> insure that the MUA (e-mail client) that creates the post creates an
> html only message, not a multipart/alternative message with both
> text/plain and text/html sub-parts.
> 
> If you want Mailman content filtering to pass the html part from a
> multipart/alternative post, the only way to do this is to disallow
> text/plain and require everyone to post html, or to turn off content
> filtering and allow everything.

My question is two parts.  One, is there a work-around available, and
two is this a "feature" which the developers intend to fix?

Thank you for your time,

Michael
-- 
Michael Dunlap                  UNIX Systems Administrator
michael.dunlap at yale.edu         Workstation Support, ITS
(203) 432-1256                  Yale University


From msapiro at value.net  Sat Jul  2 02:04:02 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 1 Jul 2005 17:04:02 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] content filtering bug (text/html
	andtext/plain in multipart	emails)
In-Reply-To: <1120241122.5654.29.camel@sanjiyan.wss.yale.edu>
Message-ID: <PC1740200507011704020921da7a7e3b@msapiro>

Michael Dunlap wrote:
>
>I've been reading the archives and it looks as if the problem of having
>content filtering on and passing multi-part emails (plain and html)
>isn't really solvable.  One email to the users list summarizes the
>problem this way:
>
>
>> There is a basic design decision in content filtering that makes this
>> difficult. Namely, after filtering, only the first remaining sub-part
>> from a multipart/alternative part is retained.
>> 
>> What this means in practice is if you want to allow both text/plain
>> parts and text/html parts, the only way to get html to the list is to
>> insure that the MUA (e-mail client) that creates the post creates an
>> html only message, not a multipart/alternative message with both
>> text/plain and text/html sub-parts.
>> 
>> If you want Mailman content filtering to pass the html part from a
>> multipart/alternative post, the only way to do this is to disallow
>> text/plain and require everyone to post html, or to turn off content
>> filtering and allow everything.
>
>My question is two parts.  One, is there a work-around available, and
>two is this a "feature" which the developers intend to fix?

1) It depends what you mean by a work-around. If you are willing to
hack code, look at Mailman/Handlers/MimeDel.py. There you'll find the
following:

    # Now replace all multipart/alternatives with just the first
non-empty
    # alternative.  BAW: We have to special case when the outer part is
a
    # multipart/alternative because we need to retain most of the outer
part's
    # headers.  For now we'll move the subpart's payload into the outer
part,
    # and then copy over its Content-Type: and
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
    # headers (any others?).
    collapse_multipart_alternatives(msg)
    if ctype == 'multipart/alternative':
        firstalt = msg.get_payload(0)
        reset_payload(msg, firstalt)

You could just delete this.

2). I'm not a Mailman developer, and I can't speak for anyone's intent,
but a patch which makes the above conditional on a new list attribute,
updates Mailman/Gui/ContentFilter.py to maintain and document the new
attribute and updates Mailman/MailList.py to set the default value
(current behavior) for new and migrated lists, might be accepted.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Mon Jul  4 01:35:17 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2005 01:35:17 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Reply-To Munging Considered Useful
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200507010744200296abf7651c@msapiro>
References: <PC1740200507010744200296abf7651c@msapiro>
Message-ID: <p0620071abeee22b6fd90@[10.0.1.3]>

At 7:44 AM -0700 2005-07-01, Mark Sapiro wrote:

>  I searched a bit and found the article at
>  http://www.metasystema.net/essays/reply-to.mhtml

	I had done some searching when looking for the original link, and 
had not found this page.

>  The link should be updated.

	I noticed that the FAQ entry had been updated, but this should be 
better integrated.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.

From michael.dunlap at yale.edu  Sun Jul  3 23:48:37 2005
From: michael.dunlap at yale.edu (Michael Dunlap)
Date: Sun, 3 Jul 2005 17:48:37 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] content filtering bug (text/html
 andtext/plain in multipart emails)
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200507011704020921da7a7e3b@msapiro>
References: <PC1740200507011704020921da7a7e3b@msapiro>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.63.0507031746420.4632@wu.wss.yale.edu>

Thanks - commenting out those lines did the trick and will make my clients 
happy.

Developers- what was the reason for this behavior?  I don't believe this 
was an arbitrary decision, so what unwanted events is it designed to 
prevent?

Michael

Michael Dunlap                   Systems Programmer / Administrator
michael.dunlap at yale.edu          Workstation Support, ITS
(203) 432-1256                   Yale University

On Fri, 1 Jul 2005, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> Michael Dunlap wrote:
>>
>> I've been reading the archives and it looks as if the problem of having
>> content filtering on and passing multi-part emails (plain and html)
>> isn't really solvable.  One email to the users list summarizes the
>> problem this way:
>>
>>
>>> There is a basic design decision in content filtering that makes this
>>> difficult. Namely, after filtering, only the first remaining sub-part
>>> from a multipart/alternative part is retained.
>>>
>>> What this means in practice is if you want to allow both text/plain
>>> parts and text/html parts, the only way to get html to the list is to
>>> insure that the MUA (e-mail client) that creates the post creates an
>>> html only message, not a multipart/alternative message with both
>>> text/plain and text/html sub-parts.
>>>
>>> If you want Mailman content filtering to pass the html part from a
>>> multipart/alternative post, the only way to do this is to disallow
>>> text/plain and require everyone to post html, or to turn off content
>>> filtering and allow everything.
>>
>> My question is two parts.  One, is there a work-around available, and
>> two is this a "feature" which the developers intend to fix?
>
> 1) It depends what you mean by a work-around. If you are willing to
> hack code, look at Mailman/Handlers/MimeDel.py. There you'll find the
> following:
>
>    # Now replace all multipart/alternatives with just the first
> non-empty
>    # alternative.  BAW: We have to special case when the outer part is
> a
>    # multipart/alternative because we need to retain most of the outer
> part's
>    # headers.  For now we'll move the subpart's payload into the outer
> part,
>    # and then copy over its Content-Type: and
> Content-Transfer-Encoding:
>    # headers (any others?).
>    collapse_multipart_alternatives(msg)
>    if ctype == 'multipart/alternative':
>        firstalt = msg.get_payload(0)
>        reset_payload(msg, firstalt)
>
> You could just delete this.
>
> 2). I'm not a Mailman developer, and I can't speak for anyone's intent,
> but a patch which makes the above conditional on a new list attribute,
> updates Mailman/Gui/ContentFilter.py to maintain and document the new
> attribute and updates Mailman/MailList.py to set the default value
> (current behavior) for new and migrated lists, might be accepted.
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>

From lists at wikidev.net  Mon Jul  4 09:43:08 2005
From: lists at wikidev.net (Gabriel Wicke)
Date: Mon, 04 Jul 2005 09:43:08 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] [Patch] Accesskey for 'Next message'
Message-ID: <pan.2005.07.04.07.43.07.472071@wikidev.net>

Hi,

this one-liner adds the access key n to the 'Next message' link in the web
archive ui.

Rationale: Speeds up reading, especially with mozilla-based
browsers where alt-n directly follows the link to the next message. Other
browsers only select the link (IE) or require more obscure keys to be
pressed (Opera), but still profit from it. Screen readers also take
advantage of access keys.

Kind regards

Gabriel Wicke


Index: Mailman/Archiver/HyperArch.py
===================================================================
RCS file: /cvsroot/mailman/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/HyperArch.py,v
retrieving revision 2.41
diff -r2.41 HyperArch.py
490c490
<                           ' <A HREF="%s">%s\n</A></li>'
---
>                           ' <A HREF="%s" ACCESSKEY="n">%s\n</A></li>'
-- 
Gabriel Wicke



From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Mon Jul  4 10:59:47 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2005 10:59:47 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] content filtering bug (text/html
 andtext/plain in multipart emails)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.63.0507031746420.4632@wu.wss.yale.edu>
References: <PC1740200507011704020921da7a7e3b@msapiro>
	<Pine.LNX.4.63.0507031746420.4632@wu.wss.yale.edu>
Message-ID: <p06200721beeea8013b1d@[10.0.1.3]>

At 5:48 PM -0400 2005-07-03, Michael Dunlap wrote:

>  Developers- what was the reason for this behavior?  I don't believe this
>  was an arbitrary decision, so what unwanted events is it designed to
>  prevent?

	Features such as converting HTML to plain text, and stripping 
various bodypart types, have accumulated in the code over time.  In 
that time, some RFC-specific knowledge has been encoded in the 
resulting Python.  E.g., the fact that the first part of a 
multi-part/alternative is supposed to be the plain-text version.

	So far, the code has focused on doing just the simple things like 
stripping specific bodypart types and converting HTML to plaintext. 
So far as I know, no one has attempted to generalize this process. 
Without any firm evidence to back up my claim, I will say that it is 
my belief that doing so will be considerably more complex than the 
code that has been developed to date.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.

From asmodai at in-nomine.org  Mon Jul  4 20:13:46 2005
From: asmodai at in-nomine.org (Jeroen Ruigrok/asmodai)
Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2005 20:13:46 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] unicode traceback
Message-ID: <20050704181346.GV31180@nexus.ninth-circle.org>

Gents and ladies,

on the freedesktop.org site we encountered a lot of troubles with moderation
queues.

Some emails got stuck due to Logger.py dying.  This is with 2.1.5.  I
verified with a trunk version and spotted the problem has not been
corrected.

Find attached a suggested patch which I think should solve this issue.

I find more unicode() calls in the Mailman 2.1.x source tree that do not
seem to guard against encoding failing or forget ValueError.  Perhaps these
also need either a(n) (additional) safeguard or 'replace' addition?

To note:
Mailman/Archiver/HyperArch.py:	charset = unicode(charset[2], charset[0])
Mailman/Archiver/HyperArch.py:  body = unicode(body, charset)
Mailman/Utils.py:            u = unicode(s, charset)

Awaiting your feedback, first time I delved into the Mailman sources. :)

-- 
Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven <asmodai(at)wxs.nl> / asmodai / kita no mono
Free Tibet! http://www.savetibet.org/ | http://ashemedai.deviantart.com/
http://www.tendra.org/   | http://www.in-nomine.org/
Seize from every moment its unique novelty and do not prepare your joys...
-------------- next part --------------
--- Mailman/Logging/Logger.py.orig	2005-07-04 19:25:42.000000000 +0200
+++ Mailman/Logging/Logger.py	2005-07-04 20:00:38.000000000 +0200
@@ -85,7 +85,7 @@
 
     def write(self, msg):
         if isinstance(msg, StringType):
-            msg = unicode(msg, self.__encoding)
+            msg = unicode(msg, self.__encoding, 'replace')
         f = self.__get_f()
         try:
             f.write(msg)

From andrew.clark at ucsb.edu  Tue Jul  5 22:36:31 2005
From: andrew.clark at ucsb.edu (Andrew D. Clark)
Date: Tue, 05 Jul 2005 13:36:31 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] UnicodeDecodeError
In-Reply-To: <1120242328.9817.43.camel@geddy.wooz.org>
References: <5495A747ADF925DBA82B1E9F@modulus.oit.ucsb.edu>
	<1120242328.9817.43.camel@geddy.wooz.org>
Message-ID: <27E7B875963A9EC78B05800F@modulus.oit.ucsb.edu>

--On Friday, July 01, 2005 02:25:28 PM -0400 Barry Warsaw 
<barry at python.org> wrote:

> On Fri, 2005-07-01 at 13:30, Andrew D. Clark wrote:
>
>> I consistently get shunted messages with errors like so in
>> logs/errors:
>
> Andrew, what version of Mailman?  If not 2.1.6, please try to upgrade.
>
> -Barry
>

It's 2.1.6 currently.

--
Andrew Clark
Campus Network Programmer
Office of Information Technology
University of California, Santa Barbara
andrew.clark at ucsb.edu (805) 893-5311

From les at 2pi.org  Wed Jul  6 08:05:45 2005
From: les at 2pi.org (Les Niles)
Date: Tue,  5 Jul 2005 23:05:45 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] content filtering bug
	(text/html	andtext/plain in multipart emails)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.63.0507031746420.4632@wu.wss.yale.edu> (message from
	Michael Dunlap on Sun, 3 Jul 2005 17:48:37 -0400 (EDT))
References: <Pine.LNX.4.63.0507031746420.4632@wu.wss.yale.edu>
Message-ID: <20050706060545.D554810B5F@mutiny.2pi.org>

On Sun, 3 Jul 2005 17:48:37 -0400 (EDT) Michael Dunlap <michael.dunlap at yale.edu> wrote:
>Thanks - commenting out those lines did the trick and will make my clients 
>happy.
>
>Developers- what was the reason for this behavior?  I don't believe this 
>was an arbitrary decision, so what unwanted events is it designed to 
>prevent?

The development of the content-filtering module was triggered by
the release of AOL 6.0, whose MUA would not allow users to turn off
HTML formatting.  The HTML content was pretty annoying on mailing
lists that were plain-text by convention so I wrote MimeDel to
reduce everything to plain text -- that meant removing various
attachments and replacing multipart/alternative sections with just
their text/plain versions.  IOW, the undesirable behavior was
pretty much the original functional spec for the content filter.

Barry made MimeDel a lot more nicely configurable, robust, and RFC-
compliant when he incorporated it into the mailman distribution,
but the basic strategy for dealing with multipart/alternative
remains.  It shouldn't be difficult to provide for either keeping
all alternative sections with certain types, or to provide an
ordered list of types from which to pick the one alternative that
will be kept.  At the expense of a few more knobs, of course.

  -les

>Michael
>
>Michael Dunlap                   Systems Programmer / Administrator
>michael.dunlap at yale.edu          Workstation Support, ITS
>(203) 432-1256                   Yale University
>
>On Fri, 1 Jul 2005, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>
>> Michael Dunlap wrote:
>>>
>>> I've been reading the archives and it looks as if the problem of having
>>> content filtering on and passing multi-part emails (plain and html)
>>> isn't really solvable.  One email to the users list summarizes the
>>> problem this way:
>>>
>>>
>>>> There is a basic design decision in content filtering that makes this
>>>> difficult. Namely, after filtering, only the first remaining sub-part
>>>> from a multipart/alternative part is retained.
>>>> ...

From barry at python.org  Wed Jul  6 17:19:07 2005
From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Wed, 06 Jul 2005 11:19:07 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] content filtering bug
	(text/html	andtext/plain in multipart	emails)
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200507011704020921da7a7e3b@msapiro>
References: <PC1740200507011704020921da7a7e3b@msapiro>
Message-ID: <1120663147.18769.17.camel@geddy.wooz.org>

On Fri, 2005-07-01 at 20:04, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> 2). I'm not a Mailman developer, and I can't speak for anyone's intent,
> but a patch which makes the above conditional on a new list attribute,
> updates Mailman/Gui/ContentFilter.py to maintain and document the new
> attribute and updates Mailman/MailList.py to set the default value
> (current behavior) for new and migrated lists, might be accepted.

Definitely.  I don't remember exactly why we ended up with this behavior
unconditionally, but I agree now that it probably should be optional.

Care to work out a patch?

-Barry

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From barry at python.org  Wed Jul  6 17:20:38 2005
From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Wed, 06 Jul 2005 11:20:38 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] content filtering bug
	(text/html	andtext/plain in multipart emails)
In-Reply-To: <p06200721beeea8013b1d@[10.0.1.3]>
References: <PC1740200507011704020921da7a7e3b@msapiro>
	<Pine.LNX.4.63.0507031746420.4632@wu.wss.yale.edu>
	<p06200721beeea8013b1d@[10.0.1.3]>
Message-ID: <1120663238.18771.19.camel@geddy.wooz.org>

On Mon, 2005-07-04 at 04:59, Brad Knowles wrote:

> 	So far, the code has focused on doing just the simple things like 
> stripping specific bodypart types and converting HTML to plaintext. 
> So far as I know, no one has attempted to generalize this process. 
> Without any firm evidence to back up my claim, I will say that it is 
> my belief that doing so will be considerably more complex than the 
> code that has been developed to date.

I'd concur with that, Brad!  In the past, it's been especially daunting
to come up with a usable web u/i to control it all.

-Barry

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From steve at cuppett.com  Thu Jul  7 12:01:00 2005
From: steve at cuppett.com (steve@cuppett.com)
Date: 7 Jul 2005 06:01:00 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Developers]
	=?utf-8?q?Mailman-Developers_Digest=2C_Vol_1?=
	=?utf-8?q?95=2C_Issue_6?=
Message-ID: <20050707100100.24972.qmail@ns4.webmastersinc.net>

I will be away from e-mail from July 6, 2005 until July 14, 2005 on vacation.  I will not be responding until after that time.



From asmodai at in-nomine.org  Sun Jul 10 10:25:03 2005
From: asmodai at in-nomine.org (Jeroen Ruigrok/asmodai)
Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2005 10:25:03 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] unicode traceback
In-Reply-To: <20050704181346.GV31180@nexus.ninth-circle.org>
References: <20050704181346.GV31180@nexus.ninth-circle.org>
Message-ID: <20050710082503.GR75988@nexus.ninth-circle.org>

-On [20050704 20:21], Jeroen Ruigrok/asmodai (asmodai at in-nomine.org) wrote:
>Find attached a suggested patch which I think should solve this issue.

Did someone have any time yet to look at this?  Because I think this kind of
small bug would warrant a 2.1.7 release even.

Thanks,

-- 
Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven <asmodai(at)wxs.nl> / asmodai / kita no mono
Free Tibet! http://www.savetibet.org/ | http://ashemedai.deviantart.com/
http://www.tendra.org/   | http://www.in-nomine.org/
The spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak...

From tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp  Sun Jul 10 14:07:23 2005
From: tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp (Tokio Kikuchi)
Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2005 21:07:23 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] unicode traceback
In-Reply-To: <20050710082503.GR75988@nexus.ninth-circle.org>
References: <20050704181346.GV31180@nexus.ninth-circle.org>
	<20050710082503.GR75988@nexus.ninth-circle.org>
Message-ID: <42D10F7B.5010306@is.kochi-u.ac.jp>

Jeroen Ruigrok/asmodai wrote:

> -On [20050704 20:21], Jeroen Ruigrok/asmodai (asmodai at in-nomine.org) wrote:
> 
>>Find attached a suggested patch which I think should solve this issue.
> 
> 
> Did someone have any time yet to look at this?  Because I think this kind of
> small bug would warrant a 2.1.7 release even.
> 

Sorry that I couldn't respond sooner.  Will you please upload your patch 
to the SourceForge patch trancker and assign to me (tkikuchi)?


-- 
Tokio Kikuchi, tkikuchi@ is.kochi-u.ac.jp
http://weather.is.kochi-u.ac.jp/


From asmodai at in-nomine.org  Sun Jul 10 14:18:01 2005
From: asmodai at in-nomine.org (Jeroen Ruigrok/asmodai)
Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2005 14:18:01 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] unicode traceback
In-Reply-To: <42D10F7B.5010306@is.kochi-u.ac.jp>
References: <20050704181346.GV31180@nexus.ninth-circle.org>
	<20050710082503.GR75988@nexus.ninth-circle.org>
	<42D10F7B.5010306@is.kochi-u.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <20050710121801.GE75988@nexus.ninth-circle.org>

Konnichiha Kikuchi-san,

douzo yoroshiku,

-On [20050710 14:07], Tokio Kikuchi (tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp) wrote:
>Sorry that I couldn't respond sooner.

Daijoubu.  It is quite alright, my email was just a gentle reminder. :)

>Will you please upload your patch to the SourceForge patch trancker and
>assign to me (tkikuchi)?

Hai!  Done.  1235567 assigned to you.  Have fun. :)

Domo arigatou,

-- 
Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven <asmodai(at)wxs.nl> / asmodai / kita no mono
Free Tibet! http://www.savetibet.org/ | http://ashemedai.deviantart.com/
http://www.tendra.org/   | http://www.in-nomine.org/
Ain't gonna spend the rest of my Life, quietly fading away...

From tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp  Mon Jul 11 09:55:35 2005
From: tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp (Tokio Kikuchi)
Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2005 16:55:35 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] content filtering
 bug	(text/html	andtext/plain in multipart	emails)
In-Reply-To: <1120663147.18769.17.camel@geddy.wooz.org>
References: <PC1740200507011704020921da7a7e3b@msapiro>
	<1120663147.18769.17.camel@geddy.wooz.org>
Message-ID: <42D225F7.60400@is.kochi-u.ac.jp>

Hi,

Barry Warsaw wrote:

> On Fri, 2005-07-01 at 20:04, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> 
> 
>>2). I'm not a Mailman developer, and I can't speak for anyone's intent,
>>but a patch which makes the above conditional on a new list attribute,
>>updates Mailman/Gui/ContentFilter.py to maintain and document the new
>>attribute and updates Mailman/MailList.py to set the default value
>>(current behavior) for new and migrated lists, might be accepted.
> 
> 
> Definitely.  I don't remember exactly why we ended up with this behavior
> unconditionally, but I agree now that it probably should be optional.
> 
> Care to work out a patch?
> 

Anyone done this already?

I'm going to do this as a part of my lecture (Anatomy of Mailman) for
our MS course students tommorow. :-)


-- 
Tokio Kikuchi, tkikuchi@ is.kochi-u.ac.jp
http://weather.is.kochi-u.ac.jp/


From barry at python.org  Mon Jul 11 16:14:55 2005
From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2005 10:14:55 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] content
	filtering	bug	(text/html	andtext/plain in multipart	emails)
In-Reply-To: <42D225F7.60400@is.kochi-u.ac.jp>
References: <PC1740200507011704020921da7a7e3b@msapiro>
	<1120663147.18769.17.camel@geddy.wooz.org>
	<42D225F7.60400@is.kochi-u.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <1121091295.4275.10.camel@geddy.wooz.org>

On Mon, 2005-07-11 at 03:55, Tokio Kikuchi wrote:

> I'm going to do this as a part of my lecture (Anatomy of Mailman) for
> our MS course students tommorow. :-)

Please be kind to our little chimera!  There's plenty of nasty gore and
goo when you open up the patient, and it's had many many parents. :)

-Barry

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From tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp  Wed Jul 13 09:29:34 2005
From: tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp (Tokio Kikuchi)
Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2005 16:29:34 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] content filtering bug (text/html
 and	text/plain in multipart	emails)
In-Reply-To: <1120241122.5654.29.camel@sanjiyan.wss.yale.edu>
References: <1120241122.5654.29.camel@sanjiyan.wss.yale.edu>
Message-ID: <42D4C2DE.4050802@is.kochi-u.ac.jp>

Hi again,

Michael Dunlap wrote:

> Hello,
> 
> I've been reading the archives and it looks as if the problem of having
> content filtering on and passing multi-part emails (plain and html)
> isn't really solvable.  One email to the users list summarizes the
> problem this way:
> 
> 
> 
>>There is a basic design decision in content filtering that makes this
>>difficult. Namely, after filtering, only the first remaining sub-part
>>from a multipart/alternative part is retained.
>>
>>What this means in practice is if you want to allow both text/plain
>>parts and text/html parts, the only way to get html to the list is to
>>insure that the MUA (e-mail client) that creates the post creates an
>>html only message, not a multipart/alternative message with both
>>text/plain and text/html sub-parts.
>>
>>If you want Mailman content filtering to pass the html part from a
>>multipart/alternative post, the only way to do this is to disallow
>>text/plain and require everyone to post html, or to turn off content
>>filtering and allow everything.
> 
> 
> My question is two parts.  One, is there a work-around available, and
> two is this a "feature" which the developers intend to fix?
> 

I've just checked in my patch to fix this.  It introduces a new 
attribute 'collapse_alternatives' in the maillist object.  You will need 
to run 'bin/update -f' after upgrading your installation to the latest CVS.

Cheers,

-- 
Tokio Kikuchi, tkikuchi@ is.kochi-u.ac.jp
http://weather.is.kochi-u.ac.jp/


From jarrell at vt.edu  Thu Jul 14 07:40:45 2005
From: jarrell at vt.edu (Ron Jarrell)
Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2005 01:40:45 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] TypeError: cannot concatenate 'str' and
	'NoneType' objects
Message-ID: <200507140540.j6E5ejtx001219@babylon5.cc.vt.edu>


Ok, I think I managed to screw myself.. Long time ago, I updated to the
cvs snapshot, and forgot to set tags, so I got 2.2a0.  I finally had
time to try to straighten the mess out and "upgrade" to 2.1.6 (which I
pulled with tag Release_2_1-maint, so it's post tarball).  Bouncer.py
keeps blowing chunks knocking out a variety of functions.  An example
from disabled:

/usr/local/bin/python -S /home/mailman/cron/disabled
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/home/mailman/cron/disabled", line 220, in ?
    main()
  File "/home/mailman/cron/disabled", line 204, in main
    mlist.sendNextNotification(member)
  File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Bouncer.py", line 270, in sendNextNotification
    msg['Subject'] = 'confirm ' + info.cookie
TypeError: cannot concatenate 'str' and 'NoneType' objects

I'm guessing something in one of the list structures isn't defined right
now?  Is there perchance a simple fix with withlist I could make?  Update,
sadly, doesn't do it, even though I forced it.

-Ron

From darrell at grumblesmurf.net  Fri Jul 15 18:37:00 2005
From: darrell at grumblesmurf.net (Darrell Fuhriman)
Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2005 09:37:00 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] OSCON session..
Message-ID: <tsh4qawauvn.fsf@pickwick.garnix.org>


Are any Mailman developers planning to be at OSCON?  I wouldn't
mind having a Mailman BOF.

Darrell

From robla at robla.net  Sat Jul 16 19:41:47 2005
From: robla at robla.net (Rob Lanphier)
Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2005 10:41:47 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] OSCON session..
In-Reply-To: <tsh4qawauvn.fsf@pickwick.garnix.org>
References: <tsh4qawauvn.fsf@pickwick.garnix.org>
Message-ID: <1121535707.28541.10.camel@localhost.localdomain>

On Fri, 2005-07-15 at 09:37 -0700, Darrell Fuhriman wrote:
> Are any Mailman developers planning to be at OSCON?  I wouldn't
> mind having a Mailman BOF.

I'm planning on being there.  I've been meaning to reintroduce myself to
this list, anyway, so I should do that now.  Last time I posted to this
list, I was working at RealNetworks, running the Helix Community
website, which has probably 200-300 Mailman mailing lists.  I did
occasional customizations and tweaks, but hadn't yet made a substantial
contribution back to the Mailman codebase.

I left RealNetworks a month ago, and now I'm working on a project called
"Spectaclar", which is an attempt to unify user management on web apps.
Here's the website:
http://spectaclar.org

I've been mainly focused on MediaWiki and WordPress to date, but I'm
planning to get around to some Mailman integration at some point.  So,
I'd love to meet some of you face-to-face if you're going to be there.

I started a Mailman BOF page on the OSCON wiki:
http://oscon.kwiki.org/index.cgi?MailmanBof

Rob


From wikier at asturlinux.org  Mon Jul 18 21:56:29 2005
From: wikier at asturlinux.org (Sergio Fdez)
Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2005 21:56:29 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Mailman and Semantic Web
Message-ID: <1121716589.9043.10.camel@localhost.localdomain>


Hi,

I'm a computer engineer that I'm working in a project to export a mbox
file into an RDF extension, in order to give the possibility of
constructing some powerful ideas around it. The possibilities (search,
stats, etc) are enormous.

I'm developement it in python, and I would like to work in a line that
soon me of the possibility of integrating it easily with mailman
(?pipermail?). I think that it's and interesting feature. 

Then I would talk with someone about some design questions. Who are the
developers of pipermail?

Un saludo

PD: sorry if my english is so bad, I'm working to to improve it.

-- 
__      ___ _   _           
\ \    / (_) |_(_)___ _ _   Sergio Fdez
 \ \/\/ /| | / / / -_) '_|  GNU/LiNUX User: #298803
  \_/\_/ |_|_\_\_\___|_|    Web: http://www.wikier.tk/


From jwt at onjapan.net  Tue Jul 19 02:39:39 2005
From: jwt at onjapan.net (Jim Tittsler)
Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2005 09:39:39 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] please update list.org/devs.html IRC channel
	listing
Message-ID: <83234FF3-F3D5-4855-A842-6B73B33CA512@onjapan.net>

I believe <http://www.list.org/devs.html> should be updated to change  
the IRC network name from openprojects.net to freenode.net.



-- 
Jim Tittsler     http://www.OnJapan.net/      GPG: 0x01159DB6
Python Starship  http://Starship.Python.net/crew/jwt/
Mailman IRC      irc://irc.freenode.net/#mailman




From iane at sussex.ac.uk  Wed Jul 20 18:16:49 2005
From: iane at sussex.ac.uk (Ian Eiloart)
Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2005 17:16:49 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] version mismatch?
Message-ID: <4A04BC0EC8F337B25644EC2D@lewes.staff.uscs.susx.ac.uk>

Hi,

Yesterday, I upgraded python on solaris 8 to version 2.4.1 in preparation 
to upgrade Mailman - as that's the currently recommended version.

Today I upgraded Mailman to version 2.1.6, and the web pages said they'd 
hit a bug. I checked the error log and found these entries (I've altered 
the whitespace for legibility):

Jul 20 15:11:54 2005

admin(25535):
/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/japanese/c/euc_jp.py:3: RuntimeWarning:
    Python C API version mismatch for module _japanese_codecs:
    This Python has API version 1012,
    module _japanese_codecs has version 1011.
  import codecs, japanese.c._japanese_codecs

admin(25535):
/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/korean/c/euc_kr.py:24: RuntimeWarning:
    Python C API version mismatch for module _koco:
    This Python has API version 1012, module _koco has version 1011.
  import _koco

Am I right in thinking this means that I need to downgrade my python 
version to make this work? Well, that seems to be working. Did I miss 
something that would make 2.1.6 work with python 2.4.1? If not, then this 
page needs fixing:

<http://www.list.org/requirements.html>


-- 
Ian Eiloart
Servers Team
Sussex University ITS


From asmodai at in-nomine.org  Wed Jul 20 19:57:36 2005
From: asmodai at in-nomine.org (Jeroen Ruigrok/asmodai)
Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2005 19:57:36 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] version mismatch?
In-Reply-To: <4A04BC0EC8F337B25644EC2D@lewes.staff.uscs.susx.ac.uk>
References: <4A04BC0EC8F337B25644EC2D@lewes.staff.uscs.susx.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <20050720175736.GF38575@nexus.ninth-circle.org>

-On [20050720 18:17], Ian Eiloart (iane at sussex.ac.uk) wrote:
>Am I right in thinking this means that I need to downgrade my python 
>version to make this work?

Not that I know.

How about:

http://download.berlios.de/cjkpython/

-- 
Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven <asmodai(at)wxs.nl> / asmodai / kita no mono
Free Tibet! http://www.savetibet.org/ | http://ashemedai.deviantart.com/
http://www.tendra.org/   | http://www.in-nomine.org/
Embrace Love, be godlike...

From barry at python.org  Wed Jul 20 20:57:26 2005
From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2005 14:57:26 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] version mismatch?
In-Reply-To: <4A04BC0EC8F337B25644EC2D@lewes.staff.uscs.susx.ac.uk>
References: <4A04BC0EC8F337B25644EC2D@lewes.staff.uscs.susx.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <1121885845.9797.12.camel@geddy.wooz.org>

On Wed, 2005-07-20 at 12:16, Ian Eiloart wrote:

> Am I right in thinking this means that I need to downgrade my python 
> version to make this work?

No, but apparently does mean that you'll have to rebuild the codec
extensions that come with Mailman.  I /think/ if you run Mailman's
config.status and then run make install again (against Python 2.4.1 of
course) you should be golden.

Let us know if that works and I'll update the release notes.

-Barry

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From tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp  Wed Jul 20 22:32:43 2005
From: tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp (Tokio Kikuchi)
Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2005 05:32:43 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] version mismatch?
In-Reply-To: <1121885845.9797.12.camel@geddy.wooz.org>
References: <4A04BC0EC8F337B25644EC2D@lewes.staff.uscs.susx.ac.uk>
	<1121885845.9797.12.camel@geddy.wooz.org>
Message-ID: <42DEB4EB.1090008@is.kochi-u.ac.jp>

Barry Warsaw wrote:

> On Wed, 2005-07-20 at 12:16, Ian Eiloart wrote:
> 
> 
>>Am I right in thinking this means that I need to downgrade my python 
>>version to make this work?
> 
> 
> No, but apparently does mean that you'll have to rebuild the codec
> extensions that come with Mailman.  I /think/ if you run Mailman's
> config.status and then run make install again (against Python 2.4.1 of
> course) you should be golden.

Or, you may have to clear the previously installed codec modules by
% rm -rf <prefix>/pythonlib/{japanese,korean}
then run make install again.

> 
> Let us know if that works and I'll update the release notes.
> 
> -Barry
> 

-- 
Tokio Kikuchi, tkikuchi@ is.kochi-u.ac.jp
http://weather.is.kochi-u.ac.jp/


From iane at sussex.ac.uk  Thu Jul 21 15:05:07 2005
From: iane at sussex.ac.uk (Ian Eiloart)
Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2005 14:05:07 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] version mismatch?
Message-ID: <31CACEEA8378F358D6442384@lewes.staff.uscs.susx.ac.uk>



--On 21 July 2005 05:32:43 +0900 Tokio Kikuchi <tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp> 
wrote:

> Barry Warsaw wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 2005-07-20 at 12:16, Ian Eiloart wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Am I right in thinking this means that I need to downgrade my python
>>> version to make this work?
>>
>>
>> No, but apparently does mean that you'll have to rebuild the codec
>> extensions that come with Mailman.  I /think/ if you run Mailman's
>> config.status and then run make install again (against Python 2.4.1 of
>> course) you should be golden.
>
> Or, you may have to clear the previously installed codec modules by
>% rm -rf <prefix>/pythonlib/{japanese,korean}
> then run make install again.

Hmm, is that because the build process looks for existing codecs in 
<prefix>?

I can't take down Mailman while I build the new version - it takes too 
long, and Mailman is too important for our business. And, I don't work 
nights!

Similarly, I can't mess with the current installation in order to make the 
new one build. I have to make a new build, test it, then deploy it. If 
deployment takes a couple of minutes to take down the service, move some 
links, then bring it back up, that's OK.


Actually, that raises an issue. When I install Python, it kindly installs 
in eg /local/lib/python2.4 - then it moves a link to enable the new 
installation.

It would be very nice if Mailman would do the same. Taking down my list 
server while building the new one isn't practical. Especially when I can't 
be sure the new one will work. I found I have to:
    build (configure, make, make install) with <prefix> = 
/local/mailman-2.1.6.
    test the web pages (fixing apache config to find the cgi)
    configure with <prefix> = /local/mailman
    hack the Makefile to install in /local/mailman-2.1.6
    make, make install
    link archive, log, queue directories
    take down mailman
    link /local/mailman
    put mailman back up

Now, this process is kind of workable, but has these drawbacks:
    1. it's more complex than it should be
    2. I never get to test what I finally install - it has to be rebuilt
    3. It takes much longer than it should.

>>
>> Let us know if that works and I'll update the release notes.

Ah, well that'll have to wait, I'm afraid. I've downgraded Python to 2.2.3, 
and reinstalled Mailman. Seems to work just fine. We don't use Python for 
much else, so I'm not desperate to update it.

>> -Barry



-- 
Ian Eiloart
Servers Team
Sussex University ITS


From iane at sussex.ac.uk  Thu Jul 21 16:32:14 2005
From: iane at sussex.ac.uk (Ian Eiloart)
Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2005 15:32:14 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] version mismatch?
Message-ID: <C7B1D8DB7EC40F395771FA8B@lewes.staff.uscs.susx.ac.uk>



--On 20 July 2005 14:57:26 -0400 Barry Warsaw <barry at python.org> wrote:

> On Wed, 2005-07-20 at 12:16, Ian Eiloart wrote:
>
>> Am I right in thinking this means that I need to downgrade my python
>> version to make this work?
>
> No, but apparently does mean that you'll have to rebuild the codec
> extensions that come with Mailman.  I /think/ if you run Mailman's
> config.status and then run make install again (against Python 2.4.1 of
> course) you should be golden.
>
> Let us know if that works and I'll update the release notes.
>
> -Barry
>

OK. I'm having a go at this. I'm not sure how that's supposed to work, 
though.

I've built Mailman 2.1.6 with Python 2.4.1, and it didn't work when 
installed with Python 2.4.1, and run along side Python 2.4.1

I've built Mailman 2.1.6 with Python 2.2.3, and it works fine. Doesn't 
matter whether I have Python 2.2.3 or 2.4.1.

I'm trying again - but why would config.status do anything?

Well, blimey. Everything seems hunky-dory now. Thanks, Barry!


-- 
Ian Eiloart
Servers Team
Sussex University ITS


From iane at sussex.ac.uk  Thu Jul 21 18:46:44 2005
From: iane at sussex.ac.uk (Ian Eiloart)
Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2005 17:46:44 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] version mismatch?
In-Reply-To: <C7B1D8DB7EC40F395771FA8B@lewes.staff.uscs.susx.ac.uk>
References: <C7B1D8DB7EC40F395771FA8B@lewes.staff.uscs.susx.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <A9403C126A6CD3D6BCE053A5@lewes.staff.uscs.susx.ac.uk>



--On 21 July 2005 15:32:14 +0100 Ian Eiloart <iane at sussex.ac.uk> wrote:

>


> Well, blimey. Everything seems hunky-dory now. Thanks, Barry!

Ah, I spoke too soon.

If I build with --prefix=foo where foo is an empty directory, then 
everything is OK.
If foo is /local/mailman (my operational location), then building Mailman 
2.1.6 with Python 2.4.1 doesn't work.

So, I guess the way to do this is to make sure I use 
--prefix=/local/mailman-2.1.6, test the cgi scripts there, link 
<prefix>/lists and so on, then link /local/mailman so that my startup 
scripts work.


-- 
Ian Eiloart
Servers Team
Sussex University ITS


From dragonstrider at gmail.com  Thu Jul 21 18:40:59 2005
From: dragonstrider at gmail.com (Joseph Tate)
Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2005 12:40:59 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] XML-RPC interface to mailman
Message-ID: <d3f621b70507210940d7a1f41@mail.gmail.com>

I've created a patch to Mailman to add XML-RPC based remote procedure
calls to mailman.  This is just a first cut to show that it can be
done and to do a few basic operations I need to plug it into a kind of
hosting framework so it can be controlled from a separate web server. 
I plan to add functionality to it to fully meet my needs, but I
thought I'd throw it out there so that I can get some feedback.  It's
made against a pristine 2.1.6 tarball.

In order to reuse code, I had to refactor quite a few files.  Most
notably some of the Cgi interfaces that do real work were tied very
closely to the idea that you want to output HTML.  You don't with
XML-RPC, so I split out the work from the formatting and replaced said
formatting with some exception handling.  I welcome comments on this
part of the patch.  I'd like to know how to make this better.

You can see that I handle authentication in each XML-RPC call that
needs it, so it shouldn't be any less secure than the appropriate Cgi
call.

Finally, I'd like some discussion of licensing.  I think that the
xmlrpc.py file itself should be LGPL just so that there is no
ambiguity whatsoever about using XML-RPC calls from a non-GPL
application.  However part of me thinks that this is unnecessary
because there is no import required to use XML-RPC, and therefore,
calling these functions would not be considered "linking" in any
technical sense of the word, and therefore would not require making
the calling application GPL.  Thoughts?

-- 
Joseph Tate
Personal e-mail: jtate AT dragonstrider DOT com
Web: http://www.dragonstrider.com
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From John.Tobin at cs.tcd.ie  Fri Jul 22 02:02:41 2005
From: John.Tobin at cs.tcd.ie (John Tobin)
Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2005 01:02:41 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] version mismatch?
In-Reply-To: <31CACEEA8378F358D6442384@lewes.staff.uscs.susx.ac.uk>
References: <31CACEEA8378F358D6442384@lewes.staff.uscs.susx.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <20050722000241.GA26060@wilde.cs.tcd.ie>

On Thu, Jul 21, 2005 at 02:05:07PM +0100, Ian Eiloart wrote:
> Similarly, I can't mess with the current installation in order to make the 
> new one build. I have to make a new build, test it, then deploy it. If 
> deployment takes a couple of minutes to take down the service, move some 
> links, then bring it back up, that's OK.

That's what I've been doing, see below.

> It would be very nice if Mailman would do the same. Taking down my list 
> server while building the new one isn't practical. Especially when I can't 
> be sure the new one will work. I found I have to:
>     build (configure, make, make install) with <prefix> = 
> /local/mailman-2.1.6.
>     test the web pages (fixing apache config to find the cgi)
>     configure with <prefix> = /local/mailman
>     hack the Makefile to install in /local/mailman-2.1.6
>     make, make install
>     link archive, log, queue directories
>     take down mailman
>     link /local/mailman
>     put mailman back up
> 
> Now, this process is kind of workable, but has these drawbacks:
>     1. it's more complex than it should be
>     2. I never get to test what I finally install - it has to be rebuilt
>     3. It takes much longer than it should.

The approach I've taken is:
	Install mailman in /mail/mailman-2.1.6
	Symlink /mail/mailman-2.1.6 to /mail/mailman when my testing is
	complete.
As far as Mailman is concerned it has been installed to
/mail/mailman-2.1.6, whereas as far as everything else (Apache, Postfix
[1], various shell and Python scripts, crontabs, etc) is concerned
Mailman has been installed in /mail/mailman.  Switching is as simple as:
	Kill Mailman, Postfix and Apache.
	rsync lists, logs, etc.
	Run genaliases.
	Remove old symlink, create new symlink.
	Start Mailman, Postfix and Apache.

It's possible, albeit unlikely, that some mail in Postfix's queue has
had an alias expanded to the old Mailman path, but because I have two
completely separate installations, I could run two parallel
installations until such mail has drained from the queue (though
archives would be messed up).

It's probably possible, with clever symlinking and aliases, enough
knowledge of the code to know what's safe, and compatibles versions, to
run two parallel installations using the same lists, qfiles, archives,
locks etc, and different Mailman, bin, cgi-bin, messages, etc.  That's
taking it a bit far I think :)

[1]: Postfix is configured to consult /mail/mailman/data/aliases, but
that file contains /mail/mailman-2.1.6/...

Hope this is some help in future,

-- 
John Tobin
"It rose into space, its wings spread wide, then fell, its wings now a
fluttering cape wrapped tight about the body of a man.  It fell past me,
its shadow sliding across walls, growing to swallow whole buildings, lit
by the clouds below.  The shadow faded into the clouds.  It was gone."
                                  -- Batman: Year One, by Frank Miller.

From stephen at xemacs.org  Fri Jul 22 08:08:47 2005
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2005 15:08:47 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] XML-RPC interface to mailman
In-Reply-To: <d3f621b70507210940d7a1f41@mail.gmail.com> (Joseph Tate's
	message of "Thu, 21 Jul 2005 12:40:59 -0400")
References: <d3f621b70507210940d7a1f41@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <873bq78j9s.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

>>>>> "Joseph" == Joseph Tate <dragonstrider at gmail.com> writes:

    Joseph> Finally, I'd like some discussion of licensing.  I think
    Joseph> that the xmlrpc.py file itself should be LGPL just so that
    Joseph> there is no ambiguity whatsoever about using XML-RPC calls
    Joseph> from a non-GPL application.

You can't, since it calls Mailman functions.  Mailman is licensed
under the GPL, so all derivative works must be licensed under the GPL
when distributed.

    Joseph> However part of me thinks that this is unnecessary because
    Joseph> there is no import required to use XML-RPC, and therefore,
    Joseph> calling these functions would not be considered "linking"
    Joseph> in any technical sense of the word,

Unfortunately, linking is not a necessary condition for a program to
be a derivative work, merely a sufficient one.  I would suspect that
Richard Stallman and Eben Moglen will tell you that anything with
"RPC" in its name should be presumed to create derivative works until
proven otherwise.  After all, the whole point of any "remote procedure
call" protocol to allow the moral equivalent of linking without actually
sharing memory cells.

-- 
School of Systems and Information Engineering http://turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp
University of Tsukuba                    Tennodai 1-1-1 Tsukuba 305-8573 JAPAN
               Ask not how you can "do" free software business;
              ask what your business can "do for" free software.

From barry at python.org  Fri Jul 22 14:24:17 2005
From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2005 08:24:17 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] XML-RPC interface to mailman
In-Reply-To: <873bq78j9s.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <d3f621b70507210940d7a1f41@mail.gmail.com>
	<873bq78j9s.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <1122035056.22555.35.camel@presto.wooz.org>

On Fri, 2005-07-22 at 02:08, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:

> Unfortunately, linking is not a necessary condition for a program to
> be a derivative work, merely a sufficient one.  I would suspect that
> Richard Stallman and Eben Moglen will tell you that anything with
> "RPC" in its name should be presumed to create derivative works until
> proven otherwise.  After all, the whole point of any "remote procedure
> call" protocol to allow the moral equivalent of linking without actually
> sharing memory cells.

Isn't this a gray area that the GPL 3 is trying to clarify?  I agree
that the patch probably needs to be licensed under the GPL (and
unfortunately assigned to the FSF) to be integrated into Mailman, but to
provide XMLRPC services to a Mailman server probably does not require
the client to be GPL'd.  

I wouldn't call it "linking" any more than trying to require GPL web
browsers to connect to a GPL web server via the "linking" rule.  That my
own opinion, and I don't know what the FSF would say.

Joseph, the best thing to do is to post your patches on SourceForge. 
It's way to easy for them to get lost in the archives (or <shudder>, my
inbox).

-Barry

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From j.e.vanbaal at uvt.nl  Fri Jul 22 15:55:19 2005
From: j.e.vanbaal at uvt.nl (Joost van Baal)
Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2005 15:55:19 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Mailman PGP patch updated to 2.1.6
In-Reply-To: <20050322163829.GH8643@banach.uvt.nl>
References: <20050228174022.GT6533@banach.uvt.nl>
	<20050322163829.GH8643@banach.uvt.nl>
Message-ID: <20050722135519.GH7281@banach.uvt.nl>

On Tue, Mar 22, 2005 at 05:38:29PM +0100, Joost van Baal wrote:
> On Mon, Feb 28, 2005 at 06:40:22PM +0100, Joost van Baal wrote:
> > 
> > I will write and publish a patch which integrates PGP signature
> > validation and re-encryption of encrypted posts to mailman.  Specs are:
> > 
> > - A post will be distributed only if the PGP signature on the post is from
> >   one of the list members.
> > - For sending encrypted email, a list member encrypts to the public key of
> >   the list.  The post will be decrypted and re-encrypted to the public keys
> >   of all list members.
> > 
> > (Later, the patch will handle RFC 2633 (S/MIME) messages too, next to
> > RFC 2440 (OpenPGP)).

This patch has been updated to apply to Mailman 2.1.6.  It's available
from
http://non-gnu.uvt.nl/pub/mailman/mailman-2.1.6-ssls_gpg_2005-07-01.patch.gz
.  It includes prior work from Stefan Schlott.  I am running
mailman-ssls_2.1.6-0.1_i386.deb now, it is usable.  (Although I wouldn't
yet recommend to deploy it in production environments!)

The S/MIME functionality is scheduled to be implemented at 2005-10-15.

Comments on the code are still very welcome (but you guessed that :)

More information is available from http://non-gnu.uvt.nl/pub/mailman/ .

Bye,

Joost

-- 
Joost van Baal                            http://abramowitz.uvt.nl/
                                                 Tilburg University
j.e.vanbaal at uvt.nl                                  The Netherlands
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From dragonstrider at gmail.com  Fri Jul 22 17:48:44 2005
From: dragonstrider at gmail.com (Joseph Tate)
Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2005 11:48:44 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] XML-RPC interface to mailman
In-Reply-To: <42E10944.6040501@midrange.com>
References: <d3f621b70507210940d7a1f41@mail.gmail.com>
	<42E10944.6040501@midrange.com>
Message-ID: <d3f621b7050722084816c4f12f@mail.gmail.com>

On 7/22/05, David Gibbs <david at midrange.com> wrote:
> Joseph Tate wrote:
> > I've created a patch to Mailman to add XML-RPC based remote procedure
> > calls to mailman.
> 
> Joseph:
> 
> I'm very interested in this functionality ... I'm working with a local
> computer user group to integrate their membership system with mailman,
> so they can add and remove list subscribers when membership information
> changes.
> 
> Sorry to say, but I'm not very fluent in Python ... could you tell me
> what functions you have exposed via this interface?  How hard do you
> think it would be to invoke the functions from a Java program?
> 
> Thanks very much!
> 
> david
> 
> 


-- 
Joseph Tate
Personal e-mail: jtate AT dragonstrider DOT com
Web: http://www.dragonstrider.com

From stephen at xemacs.org  Fri Jul 22 20:15:29 2005
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Sat, 23 Jul 2005 03:15:29 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] XML-RPC interface to mailman
In-Reply-To: <1122035056.22555.35.camel@presto.wooz.org> (Barry Warsaw's
	message of "Fri, 22 Jul 2005 08:24:17 -0400")
References: <d3f621b70507210940d7a1f41@mail.gmail.com>
	<873bq78j9s.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<1122035056.22555.35.camel@presto.wooz.org>
Message-ID: <87pstawvum.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

>>>>> "BAW" == Barry Warsaw <barry at python.org> writes:

    BAW> On Fri, 2005-07-22 at 02:08, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:

    >> Unfortunately, linking is not a necessary condition for a
    >> program to be a derivative work, merely a sufficient one.  I
    >> would suspect that Richard Stallman and Eben Moglen will tell
    >> you that anything with "RPC" in its name should be presumed to
    >> create derivative works until proven otherwise.  After all, the
    >> whole point of any "remote procedure call" protocol to allow
    >> the moral equivalent of linking without actually sharing memory
    >> cells.

    BAW> Isn't this a gray area that the GPL 3 is trying to clarify?

Last I heard, yes.  However, all GPL 3 can do is provide an exemption
(similar to the one that LGPL provides for what we normally think of
as linking).  It is the law (including existing and future court
decisions) that decides what is and is not a derivative.  The license
can only exempt some derivatives from its restrictions; it cannot
define what a derivative is.  That exemption doesn't exist in GPL 2.

It's not really a problem for Mailman.  But I think that people who
implement clients of the XML-RPC interface should be warned that there
is a plausible theory that such clients are derivatives of Mailman,
just as much as if they imported the functions instead of wrapping
them in a thin layer of XML and sending the XML over the net.  And
therefore distribution of such clients may be subject to the GPL.

-- 
School of Systems and Information Engineering http://turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp
University of Tsukuba                    Tennodai 1-1-1 Tsukuba 305-8573 JAPAN
               Ask not how you can "do" free software business;
              ask what your business can "do for" free software.

From msapiro at value.net  Sat Jul 23 02:10:23 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2005 17:10:23 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Bad info in http://www.list.org/faq.html
Message-ID: <PC1740200507221710230468ce32884b@Notebook>

The FAQ at http://www.list.org/faq.html and mirrors contains

<quote>
  Q. Can I put the user's address in the footer that Mailman adds to
each message?
A. Yes, in Mailman 2.1. The site admin needs to enable personalization
by setting the following variables in the mm_cfg.py file:

VERP_PASSWORD_REMINDERS = 1 VERP_PERSONALIZED_DELIVERIES = 1
VERP_DELIVERY_INTERVAL = 1 VERP_CONFIRMATIONS = 1

Once this is done, list admins can enable personalization for regular
delivery members (digest deliveries can't be personalized currently).
A personalized list can include the user's address in the footer. 
</quote>

This should say

<quote>
  Q. Can I put the user's address in the footer that Mailman adds to
each message?
A. Yes, in Mailman 2.1. The site admin needs to enable personalization
by setting the following variable in the mm_cfg.py file:

OWNERS_CAN_ENABLE_PERSONALIZATION = Yes

Once this is done, list admins can enable personalization for regular
delivery members (digest deliveries can't be personalized currently).
A personalized list can include the user's address in the footer. 
</quote>


--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp  Sat Jul 23 03:18:05 2005
From: tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp (Tokio Kikuchi)
Date: Sat, 23 Jul 2005 10:18:05 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] please update list.org/devs.html IRC
 channel listing
In-Reply-To: <83234FF3-F3D5-4855-A842-6B73B33CA512@onjapan.net>
References: <83234FF3-F3D5-4855-A842-6B73B33CA512@onjapan.net>
Message-ID: <42E19ACD.8030006@is.kochi-u.ac.jp>

Hi,

Jim Tittsler wrote:

> I believe <http://www.list.org/devs.html> should be updated to change  
> the IRC network name from openprojects.net to freenode.net.
> 

I've just updated on sourceforge.
http://mailman.sourceforge.net/devs.html
> 
> 

-- 
Tokio Kikuchi, tkikuchi@ is.kochi-u.ac.jp
http://weather.is.kochi-u.ac.jp/


From tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp  Sat Jul 23 03:20:50 2005
From: tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp (Tokio Kikuchi)
Date: Sat, 23 Jul 2005 10:20:50 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Bad info in http://www.list.org/faq.html
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200507221710230468ce32884b@Notebook>
References: <PC1740200507221710230468ce32884b@Notebook>
Message-ID: <42E19B72.4080107@is.kochi-u.ac.jp>

Hi,

I've just updated on sourceforge.
http://mailman.sourceforge.net/faq.html


Mark Sapiro wrote:

> The FAQ at http://www.list.org/faq.html and mirrors contains
> 

> VERP_PASSWORD_REMINDERS = 1 VERP_PERSONALIZED_DELIVERIES = 1
> VERP_DELIVERY_INTERVAL = 1 VERP_CONFIRMATIONS = 1
> 

> This should say
> 

> 
> OWNERS_CAN_ENABLE_PERSONALIZATION = Yes
> 

> 

-- 
Tokio Kikuchi tkikuchi@ is.kochi-u.ac.jp
http://weather.is.kochi-u.ac.jp/


From barry at python.org  Sun Jul 24 19:06:01 2005
From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2005 13:06:01 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Bad info in http://www.list.org/faq.html
In-Reply-To: <42E19B72.4080107@is.kochi-u.ac.jp>
References: <PC1740200507221710230468ce32884b@Notebook>
	<42E19B72.4080107@is.kochi-u.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <1122224760.13991.64.camel@presto.wooz.org>

On Fri, 2005-07-22 at 21:20, Tokio Kikuchi wrote:

> I've just updated on sourceforge.
> http://mailman.sourceforge.net/faq.html

Thanks Tokio.  I've also pushed site updates to gnu and list.

-Barry

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From barry at python.org  Sun Jul 24 19:13:22 2005
From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2005 13:13:22 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Mailman and Semantic Web
In-Reply-To: <1121716589.9043.10.camel@localhost.localdomain>
References: <1121716589.9043.10.camel@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <1122225202.13988.69.camel@presto.wooz.org>

On Mon, 2005-07-18 at 15:56, Sergio Fdez wrote:

> Then I would talk with someone about some design questions. Who are the
> developers of pipermail?

Pipermail hasn't really been actively maintained in several years.  Lots
of people have dabbled in it -- it was originally written by Andrew
Kuchling, and many years ago Jeremy Hylton did a bunch of work to
improve it, but beyond that, not much has been done.

I still think it's important for Mailman to be shipped with a default
archiver, and for simple sites, Pipermail is just fine.  Unfortunately,
this does mean that you're largely on your own if you want to make
modifications to Pipermail, although this list would be the place to ask
specific questions.

-Barry

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From barry at python.org  Sun Jul 24 19:28:59 2005
From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2005 13:28:59 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] TypeError: cannot concatenate 'str'
	and	'NoneType' objects
In-Reply-To: <200507140540.j6E5ejtx001219@babylon5.cc.vt.edu>
References: <200507140540.j6E5ejtx001219@babylon5.cc.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <1122226139.13990.84.camel@presto.wooz.org>

On Thu, 2005-07-14 at 01:40, Ron Jarrell wrote:
> Ok, I think I managed to screw myself.. Long time ago, I updated to the
> cvs snapshot, and forgot to set tags, so I got 2.2a0.  I finally had
> time to try to straighten the mess out and "upgrade" to 2.1.6 (which I
> pulled with tag Release_2_1-maint, so it's post tarball).  Bouncer.py
> keeps blowing chunks knocking out a variety of functions.  An example
> from disabled:
> 
> /usr/local/bin/python -S /home/mailman/cron/disabled
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "/home/mailman/cron/disabled", line 220, in ?
>     main()
>   File "/home/mailman/cron/disabled", line 204, in main
>     mlist.sendNextNotification(member)
>   File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Bouncer.py", line 270, in sendNextNotification
>     msg['Subject'] = 'confirm ' + info.cookie
> TypeError: cannot concatenate 'str' and 'NoneType' objects
> 
> I'm guessing something in one of the list structures isn't defined right
> now?  Is there perchance a simple fix with withlist I could make?  Update,
> sadly, doesn't do it, even though I forced it.

Ron, in this specific case, I'd suggest just blowing away all the bounce
info associated with the list.  You'll lose any existing information for
bouncing members, but who cares?  You'll just start building up that
information again as you go.

Just load the list into withlist (locked) and set mlist.bounce_info = {}
(i.e. an empty dict), and then save the mlist.  That's untested, but it
should do the trick.

-Barry

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From barry at python.org  Sun Jul 24 21:52:24 2005
From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2005 15:52:24 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] XML-RPC interface to mailman
In-Reply-To: <87pstawvum.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <d3f621b70507210940d7a1f41@mail.gmail.com>
	<873bq78j9s.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<1122035056.22555.35.camel@presto.wooz.org>
	<87pstawvum.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <1122234744.9633.20.camel@geddy.wooz.org>

On Fri, 2005-07-22 at 14:15, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:

> It's not really a problem for Mailman.  But I think that people who
> implement clients of the XML-RPC interface should be warned that there
> is a plausible theory that such clients are derivatives of Mailman,
> just as much as if they imported the functions instead of wrapping
> them in a thin layer of XML and sending the XML over the net.  And
> therefore distribution of such clients may be subject to the GPL.

That's a valid point, and given that it's the FSF that owns Mailman 2.1,
it's really up to them to press the case, should they ever decide to.  I
definitely think that if we distribute client side code for the XML-RPC
interface, that code ought to be LGPL'd.  OTOH, you don't really need
any client code, since Python (or whatever language you'd want to use)
probably has everything you need.

It's worth a (non-scary sounding) warning in the docs.

-Barry

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From barry at python.org  Sun Jul 24 22:23:49 2005
From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2005 16:23:49 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] version mismatch?
In-Reply-To: <31CACEEA8378F358D6442384@lewes.staff.uscs.susx.ac.uk>
References: <31CACEEA8378F358D6442384@lewes.staff.uscs.susx.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <1122236629.9634.47.camel@geddy.wooz.org>

On Thu, 2005-07-21 at 09:05, Ian Eiloart wrote:

> >> No, but apparently does mean that you'll have to rebuild the codec
> >> extensions that come with Mailman.  I /think/ if you run Mailman's
> >> config.status and then run make install again (against Python 2.4.1 of
> >> course) you should be golden.
> >
> > Or, you may have to clear the previously installed codec modules by
> >% rm -rf <prefix>/pythonlib/{japanese,korean}
> > then run make install again.
> 
> Hmm, is that because the build process looks for existing codecs in 
> <prefix>?

I think it's primarily because Python has a C API version number which
gets encoded into C extensions, and this version number changed between
Python 2.3 and 2.4.  So fixing this basically entails getting the C
extensions rebuilt against Python 2.4's API.

> Actually, that raises an issue. When I install Python, it kindly installs 
> in eg /local/lib/python2.4 - then it moves a link to enable the new 
> installation.
> 
> It would be very nice if Mailman would do the same. 

I agree, but it's much more difficult for Mailman.  Python has the
luxury of being almost entirely static, except for .pyc files, which are
just cached byte code streams, and so can be automatically blown away
and rebuilt if necessary.  OTOH Mailman has lots of dynamic information,
from the queue files, to the config.pck databases, to the archives, and
those files can (and have) changed.  Besides that, Mailman has lots of
entry points, from mailmanctl, to the cron scripts, to the linkages with
your mail and web servers, to all the command line scripts.  It's much
harder to just flip a symlink to ensure you're getting the latest
Mailman, and the /same/ Mailman across all those touch points.

-Barry

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From barry at python.org  Sun Jul 24 22:26:08 2005
From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2005 16:26:08 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] version mismatch?
In-Reply-To: <C7B1D8DB7EC40F395771FA8B@lewes.staff.uscs.susx.ac.uk>
References: <C7B1D8DB7EC40F395771FA8B@lewes.staff.uscs.susx.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <1122236768.9635.51.camel@geddy.wooz.org>

On Thu, 2005-07-21 at 10:32, Ian Eiloart wrote:

> OK. I'm having a go at this. I'm not sure how that's supposed to work, 
> though.
> 
> I've built Mailman 2.1.6 with Python 2.4.1, and it didn't work when 
> installed with Python 2.4.1, and run along side Python 2.4.1

What happens?  Please provide more details about what "didn't work"!

> I've built Mailman 2.1.6 with Python 2.2.3, and it works fine. Doesn't 
> matter whether I have Python 2.2.3 or 2.4.1.
> 
> I'm trying again - but why would config.status do anything?

config.status rebuilds the Makefiles and other .in files based on your
original ./configure invocation.  You can always just re-run configure
with your original options for a similar effect.

> Well, blimey. Everything seems hunky-dory now. Thanks, Barry!

I'm not sure what I did, but yay! :)  Getting it working is probably
more imporatnt that whether you're using Python 2.3 or 2.4. :)

-Barry

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From jeffrey.borkent at adelaide.edu.au  Mon Jul 25 01:23:03 2005
From: jeffrey.borkent at adelaide.edu.au (Jeffrey Borkent)
Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2005 08:53:03 +0930
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] SMTP authentication
Message-ID: <1122247382.16000.3.camel@batfink.its.adelaide.edu.au>

Hi All,

We are trying to use our authenticated SMTP server headers to ensure
people cannot spoof email addresses in mailman.

We want to insert a script which when inserted into the mailman.aliases
file will check for authentication and insert a header, then use maiman
to check for this header and send/discard.

How in python do i parse a whole email into an email.Message() object? 

I can seem to do it in pieces but not as a whoile email.

Cheers



-- 
Jeffrey Borkent
Systems Specialist
Information Technology Services
University of Adelaide
Level 7, 10 Pultney Street
Adelaide. 5005
Ph: 8303 3000
jeffrey.borkent at adelaide.edu.au


---------------------------------
CRICOS Provider Number 00123M
----------------------------------------------------------- 
This email message is intended only for the addressee(s) 
and contains information that may be confidential and/or 
copyright.  If you are not the intended recipient please 
notify the sender by reply email and immediately delete 
this email. Use, disclosure or reproduction of this email 
by anyone other than the intended recipient(s) is strictly 
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any attachments are free of viruses. Virus scanning is 
recommended and is the responsibility of the recipient.


From barry at python.org  Mon Jul 25 02:19:03 2005
From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2005 20:19:03 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] SMTP authentication
In-Reply-To: <1122247382.16000.3.camel@batfink.its.adelaide.edu.au>
References: <1122247382.16000.3.camel@batfink.its.adelaide.edu.au>
Message-ID: <1122250743.9379.1.camel@geddy.wooz.org>

On Sun, 2005-07-24 at 19:23, Jeffrey Borkent wrote:

> How in python do i parse a whole email into an email.Message() object? 

You can use email.message_from_string() or .message_from_file(), but I'm
not sure you'll need to do this.  The Mailman part that you'll want to
write will likely be a "handler", in which case you'll get a
Mailman.Message object passed to you already parsed.  This is just a
subclass of email.Message.Message.

-Barry

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From iane at sussex.ac.uk  Mon Jul 25 11:44:52 2005
From: iane at sussex.ac.uk (Ian Eiloart)
Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2005 10:44:52 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] version mismatch?
In-Reply-To: <1122236768.9635.51.camel@geddy.wooz.org>
References: <C7B1D8DB7EC40F395771FA8B@lewes.staff.uscs.susx.ac.uk>
	<1122236768.9635.51.camel@geddy.wooz.org>
Message-ID: <A85E83F5D955805CEFA1AF99@lewes.staff.uscs.susx.ac.uk>



--On 24 July 2005 16:26:08 -0400 Barry Warsaw <barry at python.org> wrote:

> On Thu, 2005-07-21 at 10:32, Ian Eiloart wrote:
>
>> OK. I'm having a go at this. I'm not sure how that's supposed to work,
>> though.
>>
>> I've built Mailman 2.1.6 with Python 2.4.1, and it didn't work when
>> installed with Python 2.4.1, and run along side Python 2.4.1
>
> What happens?  Please provide more details about what "didn't work"!

Well, it's the same API version number error that I reported before.




-- 
Ian Eiloart
Servers Team
Sussex University ITS


From dragonstrider at gmail.com  Tue Jul 26 19:50:19 2005
From: dragonstrider at gmail.com (Joseph Tate)
Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2005 13:50:19 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] XML-RPC CGI interface to Mailman
Message-ID: <d3f621b705072610502f359a92@mail.gmail.com>

In case it got missed, and for anyone who is interested in integrating
and testing what's currently available, I've posted my XML-RPC patch
to SourceForge:
http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1244799&group_id=103&atid=300103

I forsee only a pair of changes: First of all many more exceptions
should be caught by the handler and real error messages returned
through the XML interface.  I'll be filling these in over the next few
days/weeks.

And second, I am going to fix list_lists so that it does not return
private lists.

I'll keep the patch at the above site up to date.

Another thing on the TODO list for after the patch is incorporated:
Create an interface to "get" a specific list setting (like config_list
-o)

-- 
Joseph Tate
Personal e-mail: jtate AT dragonstrider DOT com
Web: http://www.dragonstrider.com

From jarrell at vt.edu  Wed Jul 27 00:26:39 2005
From: jarrell at vt.edu (Ron Jarrell)
Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2005 18:26:39 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] TypeError: cannot concatenate 'str' and
 'NoneType' objects
In-Reply-To: <1122226139.13990.84.camel@presto.wooz.org>
References: <200507140540.j6E5ejtx001219@babylon5.cc.vt.edu>
	<1122226139.13990.84.camel@presto.wooz.org>
Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.2.20050726182519.048f26c0@lennier.cc.vt.edu>

At 01:28 PM 7/24/2005, Barry Warsaw wrote:
>On Thu, 2005-07-14 at 01:40, Ron Jarrell wrote:
> > Ok, I think I managed to screw myself.. Long time ago, I updated to 
> the
> > cvs snapshot, and forgot to set tags, so I got 2.2a0.  I finally 
> had
> > time to try to straighten the mess out and "upgrade" to 2.1.6 
> (which I
> > pulled with tag Release_2_1-maint, so it's post 
> tarball).  Bouncer.py
> > keeps blowing chunks knocking out a variety of functions.  An 
> example
> > from disabled:
> >
> > /usr/local/bin/python -S /home/mailman/cron/disabled
> > Traceback (most recent call last):
> >   File "/home/mailman/cron/disabled", line 220, in ?
> >     main()
> >   File "/home/mailman/cron/disabled", line 204, in main
> >     mlist.sendNextNotification(member)
> >   File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Bouncer.py", line 270, in 
> sendNextNotification
> >     msg['Subject'] = 'confirm ' + info.cookie
> > TypeError: cannot concatenate 'str' and 'NoneType' objects
> >
> > I'm guessing something in one of the list structures isn't defined 
> right
> > now?  Is there perchance a simple fix with withlist I could 
> make?  Update,
> > sadly, doesn't do it, even though I forced it.
>
>Ron, in this specific case, I'd suggest just blowing away all the 
>bounce
>info associated with the list.  You'll lose any existing information 
>for
>bouncing members, but who cares?  You'll just start building up that
>information again as you go.
>
>Just load the list into withlist (locked) and set mlist.bounce_info = 
>{}
>(i.e. an empty dict), and then save the mlist.  That's untested, but 
>it
>should do the trick.

Well, it seems to have worked.. I had to do it to all my lists (thank 
heavens for
withlist -a...) but the errors have stopped.. And I get moderator 
messages, and
password reminders again, among other things.    Thanks! 



From barry at python.org  Wed Jul 27 00:46:52 2005
From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2005 18:46:52 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] TypeError: cannot concatenate 'str'
	and	'NoneType' objects
In-Reply-To: <6.1.2.0.2.20050726182519.048f26c0@lennier.cc.vt.edu>
References: <200507140540.j6E5ejtx001219@babylon5.cc.vt.edu>
	<1122226139.13990.84.camel@presto.wooz.org>
	<6.1.2.0.2.20050726182519.048f26c0@lennier.cc.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <1122418012.25170.15.camel@geddy.wooz.org>

On Tue, 2005-07-26 at 18:26, Ron Jarrell wrote:

> Well, it seems to have worked.. I had to do it to all my lists (thank 
> heavens for
> withlist -a...) but the errors have stopped.. And I get moderator 
> messages, and
> password reminders again, among other things.    Thanks! 

Yay!
-Barry

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From sofar at foo-projects.org  Wed Jul 27 16:24:34 2005
From: sofar at foo-projects.org (Auke Kok)
Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2005 16:24:34 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] UnicodeDecodeError
Message-ID: <42E79922.5020701@foo-projects.org>

> On Friday, July 01, 2005 02:25:28 PM -0400 Barry Warsaw
<barry at python.org> wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 2005-07-01 at 13:30, Andrew D. Clark wrote:
>>
>>> I consistently get shunted messages with errors like so in
>>> logs/errors:
>>
>> Andrew, what version of Mailman?  If not 2.1.6, please try to upgrade.
>>
>> -Barry
>>
>
>It's 2.1.6 currently.
>

I have the same consistent message now with my -i18n development list
when running bin/arch (2.1.6/python-2.4.1):

[snip]
Updating HTML for article 3099
Updating HTML for article 3100
Pickling archive state into
/var/mailman/archives/private/xfce-i18n/pipermail.pck
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "bin/arch", line 200, in ?
    main()
  File "bin/arch", line 188, in main
    archiver.processUnixMailbox(fp, start, end)
  File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/pipermail.py", line 573, in
processUnixMailbox
    self.add_article(a)
  File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/pipermail.py", line 625, in
add_article
    article.parentID = parentID = self.get_parent_info(arch, article)
  File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/pipermail.py", line 657, in
get_parent_info
    article.subject)
  File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/HyperDatabase.py", line 311, in
getOldestArticle
    self.__openIndices(archive)
  File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/HyperDatabase.py", line 251, in
__openIndices
    t = DumbBTree(os.path.join(arcdir, archive + '-' + i))
  File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/HyperDatabase.py", line 65, in
__init__
    self.load()
  File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/HyperDatabase.py", line 179, in load
    self.__sort(dirty=1)
  File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/HyperDatabase.py", line 73, in __sort
    self.sorted.sort()
UnicodeDecodeError: 'ascii' codec can't decode byte 0xc3 in position 0:
ordinal not in range(128)


This is the second unicode error I found. The other one (in senddigests)
can be fixed by adding a unicodedecodeerror exception as I described in
the patch I submitted
(http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1246003&group_id=103&atid=300103)

Please take a good look ;^)

sofar

From msapiro at value.net  Thu Jul 28 17:52:05 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2005 08:52:05 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] [Mailman-Users] Low level bug: (solved)
In-Reply-To: <42E5B3EE.70609@forrie.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200507280852050468042ada19@Notebook>

Forrest Aldrich wrote:
>
>The problem was an obscure typo in mm_cfg.py.   Missing single quotes, 
>basically.  It's "obscure" because it wasn't very obvious... and I 
>looked over everything with a fine-toothed comb, including our proxy and 
>httpd setup!
>
>It seems to me that Mailman could probably provide better debugging 
>output in this scenario.   I don't know Python, but at the point where 
>the mm_cfg.py file is parsed, any syntactical errors could be reported 
>then.   ?

The real issue here seems to be that the import from mm_cfg done in the
driver script is inadequately protected. The driver script
print_traceback definition contains

    try:
        from Mailman.mm_cfg import VERSION
    except ImportError:
        VERSION = '&lt;undetermined&gt;'

This is fine if there is an ImportError exception, but since mm_cfg.py
is edited by users, it is possible (likely) that there will be a
SyntaxError error exception here, and something more meaningful than
the "Mailman experienced a very low level failure and could not even
generate a useful traceback for you." message could be reported.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From barry at python.org  Fri Jul 29 04:59:05 2005
From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2005 22:59:05 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] [Mailman-Users] Low level bug: (solved)
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200507280852050468042ada19@Notebook>
References: <PC1740200507280852050468042ada19@Notebook>
Message-ID: <1122605945.9666.21.camel@geddy.wooz.org>

On Thu, 2005-07-28 at 11:52, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> The real issue here seems to be that the import from mm_cfg done in the
> driver script is inadequately protected. The driver script
> print_traceback definition contains
> 
>     try:
>         from Mailman.mm_cfg import VERSION
>     except ImportError:
>         VERSION = '&lt;undetermined&gt;'
> 
> This is fine if there is an ImportError exception, but since mm_cfg.py
> is edited by users, it is possible (likely) that there will be a
> SyntaxError error exception here, and something more meaningful than
> the "Mailman experienced a very low level failure and could not even
> generate a useful traceback for you." message could be reported.

Bare excepts are evil, but maybe it's warranted in this situation.  All
we really care about is the VERSION variable you're right that users can
easily put all manner of nastiness in there.

-Barry

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