From jwt at onjapan.net Sat Jan 1 02:49:01 2005 From: jwt at onjapan.net (Jim Tittsler) Date: Sat Jan 1 02:48:15 2005 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Bug when canceling invites... In-Reply-To: <20041231190256.33564.qmail@web54002.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20041231190256.33564.qmail@web54002.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <41D6018D.9050101@onjapan.net> VAEZ(daneshjooye sharif) wrote: > > Carson Gaspar wrote: > If the invited person uses the link included in an invite and tries to > cancel the invitation themselves, this happens.... > > Bug in Mailman version 2.1.5 > > We're sorry, we hit a bug! This is a known problem with version 2.1.5. It has been fixed in the version currently in CVS (and being alpha tested). Alternatively, you can get a patch to fix just this problem from the SourceForge patch tracker: Thanks for the report. From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org Sat Jan 1 07:45:49 2005 From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles) Date: Sat Jan 1 08:06:34 2005 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] chi shod? In-Reply-To: <20041231213109.76876.qmail@web54005.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20041231213109.76876.qmail@web54005.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: At 1:31 PM -0800 2004-12-31, VAEZ(daneshjooye sharif) wrote: > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses. This account has been terminated with extreme prejudice. This person will not be allowed to re-subscribe to the lists, at least not anytime soon. -- Brad Knowles, "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755 SAGE member since 1995. See for more info. From hesam_af2003 at yahoo.com Sat Jan 1 14:42:12 2005 From: hesam_af2003 at yahoo.com (hesam afkhami) Date: Sat Jan 1 14:42:15 2005 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] a question Message-ID: <20050101134213.76864.qmail@web54304.mail.yahoo.com> how much reliable is Mailing list? --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - now with 250MB free storage. Learn more. From hesam_af2003 at yahoo.com Sat Jan 1 14:56:14 2005 From: hesam_af2003 at yahoo.com (hesam afkhami) Date: Sat Jan 1 14:56:17 2005 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] another question Message-ID: <20050101135614.91198.qmail@web54310.mail.yahoo.com> we can use Mailing list for a important intend? --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Get it on your mobile phone. From hesam_af2003 at yahoo.com Sat Jan 1 14:58:12 2005 From: hesam_af2003 at yahoo.com (hesam afkhami) Date: Sat Jan 1 14:58:15 2005 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] please answer my question quicly Message-ID: <20050101135812.82669.qmail@web54308.mail.yahoo.com> --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard. From barry at python.org Sat Jan 1 19:04:51 2005 From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw) Date: Sat Jan 1 19:04:55 2005 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Dates again In-Reply-To: <20041231201720.50798.qmail@web54002.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20041231201720.50798.qmail@web54002.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1104602691.10938.90.camel@geddy.wooz.org> On Fri, 2004-12-31 at 15:17, VAEZ(daneshjooye sharif) wrote: > That's true. In fact, they're equally property of the author(s) (in > the wording of RFC 822 and reaffirmed by 2822), and I detest mailing > lists that insist on munging the Subject header, too. Even this > one. If an MUA can't do the right thing based on the List-* > headers, I want no part of it, not even to share a mailing list with it. Subject munging pre-dates RFC 2369, and today I think it's mostly a hold over. It also causes headaches with RFC 2047. Fortunately, you can turn this off in Mailman. -Barry -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 307 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-developers/attachments/20050101/c05d1a09/attachment.pgp From bob at nleaudio.com Sat Jan 1 19:23:11 2005 From: bob at nleaudio.com (Bob Puff) Date: Sat Jan 1 19:23:17 2005 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Dates again In-Reply-To: <1104602691.10938.90.camel@geddy.wooz.org> References: <20041231201720.50798.qmail@web54002.mail.yahoo.com> <1104602691.10938.90.camel@geddy.wooz.org> Message-ID: <20050101182144.M69363@nleaudio.com> One's detesting is another man's love. I absolutely love having the subject line prefix, as do virtually all of my mailing list owners. I also vote for having an option to "fix" the dates, also. Its a headache when emailers don't have their date set properly. Bob ---------- Original Message ----------- From: Barry Warsaw To: "VAEZ(daneshjooye sharif)" Cc: mailman-developers@python.org, "Stephen J. Turnbull" Sent: Sat, 01 Jan 2005 13:04:51 -0500 Subject: Re: [Mailman-Developers] Dates again > On Fri, 2004-12-31 at 15:17, VAEZ(daneshjooye sharif) wrote: > > > That's true. In fact, they're equally property of the author(s) (in > > the wording of RFC 822 and reaffirmed by 2822), and I detest mailing > > lists that insist on munging the Subject header, too. Even this > > one. If an MUA can't do the right thing based on the List-* > > headers, I want no part of it, not even to share a mailing list with it. > > Subject munging pre-dates RFC 2369, and today I think it's mostly a hold > over. It also causes headaches with RFC 2047. Fortunately, you can > turn this off in Mailman. > > -Barry ------- End of Original Message ------- From Nigel.Metheringham at dev.intechnology.co.uk Sat Jan 1 20:22:56 2005 From: Nigel.Metheringham at dev.intechnology.co.uk (Nigel Metheringham) Date: Sat Jan 1 20:24:10 2005 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] please answer my question quicly In-Reply-To: <20050101135812.82669.qmail@web54308.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20050101135812.82669.qmail@web54308.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <41D6F890.7050705@dev.intechnology.co.uk> You have obviously missed something here.... None of the people on this mailing list are paid to sit and breathlessly await mailing list messages and respond to them within seconds. This means that sending multiple insistent requests to the lists within a few minutes just pisses people off, and is reasonably likely to get you banned from the list rather than a friendly response - even more so when you do this on a day that is a national holiday across rather a wide part of the world (notwithstanding cancellations of holidays in much of the world at present due to major disasters). Are mailing lists reliable....? Well what do you mean by reliable? Will you get accurate precise answers to questions from them? Well sometimes, other times you get garbage, and you should always believe anything you read on the Internet. Will they reliably deliver mail? Yes, with caveats (if someone has a broken mail system then the mail will get lost there from lists as well as from other sources). Nigel. From lists05 at equinephotoart.com Sat Jan 1 20:43:26 2005 From: lists05 at equinephotoart.com (JC Dill) Date: Sat Jan 1 20:43:29 2005 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Staying on-topic on mailman-developers In-Reply-To: <41D6F890.7050705@dev.intechnology.co.uk> References: <20050101135812.82669.qmail@web54308.mail.yahoo.com> <41D6F890.7050705@dev.intechnology.co.uk> Message-ID: <41D6FD5E.7060501@equinephotoart.com> Nigel Metheringham wrote: > You have obviously missed something here.... I've set the poster to moderated status. If anyone sees any posts on this list (such as this poster's first question asking if mailman is reliable, a post that belongs on mailman-*users*, not mailman-*developers*) that don't belong on this list, please don't reply *to the list*. I'll set the poster to moderated as soon as I see any problems, so that further posts don't appear. jc - hoping to help the -developers list get back on-topic in 2005. :-) From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org Sun Jan 2 03:00:54 2005 From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles) Date: Sun Jan 2 03:24:47 2005 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] please answer my question quicly In-Reply-To: <20050101135812.82669.qmail@web54308.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20050101135812.82669.qmail@web54308.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hesam, If you need a quick answer, then a public mailing list in support of an open source mailing list program is probably the wrong place to go. If you need guarantees of performance, etc... then you should buy a suitable commercial program. -- Brad Knowles, "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755 SAGE member since 1995. See for more info. From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org Sun Jan 2 02:59:17 2005 From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles) Date: Sun Jan 2 03:24:50 2005 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] another question In-Reply-To: <20050101135614.91198.qmail@web54310.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20050101135614.91198.qmail@web54310.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: At 5:56 AM -0800 2005-01-01, hesam afkhami wrote: > we can use Mailing list for a important intend? Important intend?!? What on earth are you talking about?!? -- Brad Knowles, "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755 SAGE member since 1995. See for more info. From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org Sun Jan 2 02:58:53 2005 From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles) Date: Sun Jan 2 03:24:50 2005 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] a question In-Reply-To: <20050101134213.76864.qmail@web54304.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20050101134213.76864.qmail@web54304.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: At 5:42 AM -0800 2005-01-01, hesam afkhami wrote: > how much reliable is Mailing list? How reliable do you need? In my experience, Mailman is at least as reliable as any MTA I've encountered, so it should be as reliable as e-mail can reasonably be. But you should also see . -- Brad Knowles, "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755 SAGE member since 1995. See for more info. From stephen at xemacs.org Mon Jan 3 09:02:46 2005 From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull) Date: Mon Jan 3 09:02:57 2005 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Dates again In-Reply-To: <20050101182144.M69363@nleaudio.com> (Bob Puff's message of "Sat, 1 Jan 2005 13:23:11 -0500") References: <20041231201720.50798.qmail@web54002.mail.yahoo.com> <1104602691.10938.90.camel@geddy.wooz.org> <20050101182144.M69363@nleaudio.com> Message-ID: <87wtuv3pp5.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> >>>>> "Bob" == Bob Puff writes: Bob> One's detesting is another man's love. I absolutely love Bob> having the subject line prefix, as do virtually all of my Bob> mailing list owners. Having thought about it a bit, the RFC definitely reserves those headers to the authors, but if it's switched ON by the list owner and documented somewhere, it's reasonable to interpret that the authors have given (implicit) permission. Bob> I also vote for having an option to "fix" the dates, also. Bob> Its a headache when emailers don't have their date set Bob> properly. Well, I just hope that (1) a better job will be done on it than was done on the CC-cleaning code, and (2) all the author-header-munging will default to off. -- Institute of Policy and Planning Sciences http://turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp University of Tsukuba Tennodai 1-1-1 Tsukuba 305-8573 JAPAN Ask not how you can "do" free software business; ask what your business can "do for" free software. From fehwalker at gmail.com Fri Jan 7 14:51:03 2005 From: fehwalker at gmail.com (Bryan Fullerton) Date: Fri Jan 7 14:51:06 2005 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] mailman-2.1.6a2 is out In-Reply-To: <41BA4EC5.7070801@is.kochi-u.ac.jp> References: <41BA4EC5.7070801@is.kochi-u.ac.jp> Message-ID: <35de0c3005010705513ee496c9@mail.gmail.com> Hi Tokio et al, Is there a roadmap for 2.1.6 betas and release? Haven't seen anything since this post. (but maybe I missed a message?) Thanks, Bryan On Sat, 11 Dec 2004 10:35:01 +0900, Tokio Kikuchi wrote: > Hi Developers and I18Ners, > > I've bumped version number of mailman to 2.1.6a2 (a1 was not announced) > and made a tarball at my mailman-japanese site. Please get it at: > http://mm.tkikuchi.net/mailman-2.1.6a2.tgz > > Mailman 2.1.6 should be compatible with Python 2.4 and including some > nice new features such as numbering in subject prefix and filtering > attachments by filename extensions. > > Please download and test it and help us fixing bugs. > > Cheers, > -- > Tokio Kikuchi, tkikuchi@ is.kochi-u.ac.jp > http://weather.is.kochi-u.ac.jp/ > From barry at python.org Fri Jan 7 16:14:41 2005 From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw) Date: Fri Jan 7 16:14:45 2005 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] mailman-2.1.6a2 is out In-Reply-To: <35de0c3005010705513ee496c9@mail.gmail.com> References: <41BA4EC5.7070801@is.kochi-u.ac.jp> <35de0c3005010705513ee496c9@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1105110881.26439.60.camel@geddy.wooz.org> On Fri, 2005-01-07 at 08:51, Bryan Fullerton wrote: > Is there a roadmap for 2.1.6 betas and release? Haven't seen anything > since this post. (but maybe I missed a message?) I would like to see us move toward a 2.1.6 release fairly soon. Tokio, do you think it's feasible to get a release out by the end of January? -Barry -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 307 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-developers/attachments/20050107/e56ffafb/attachment.pgp From tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp Sat Jan 8 02:00:30 2005 From: tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp (Tokio Kikuchi) Date: Sat Jan 8 02:00:44 2005 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] mailman-2.1.6a2 is out In-Reply-To: <1105110881.26439.60.camel@geddy.wooz.org> References: <41BA4EC5.7070801@is.kochi-u.ac.jp> <35de0c3005010705513ee496c9@mail.gmail.com> <1105110881.26439.60.camel@geddy.wooz.org> Message-ID: <41DF30AE.8060909@is.kochi-u.ac.jp> Barry Warsaw wrote: > On Fri, 2005-01-07 at 08:51, Bryan Fullerton wrote: > > >>Is there a roadmap for 2.1.6 betas and release? Haven't seen anything >>since this post. (but maybe I missed a message?) > > > I would like to see us move toward a 2.1.6 release fairly soon. Tokio, > do you think it's feasible to get a release out by the end of January? > Yes. I was already in waiting-for-release mode ;-). Maybe I can add partial translation of mailman-install.tex in japanese. -- Tokio Kikuchi, tkikuchi@ is.kochi-u.ac.jp http://weather.is.kochi-u.ac.jp/ From barry at python.org Sat Jan 8 04:36:39 2005 From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw) Date: Sat Jan 8 04:36:45 2005 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Re: [Mailman-checkins] mailman/messages/ja/doc mailman-install.tex, NONE, 1.1.2.1 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1105155399.9226.4.camel@geddy.wooz.org> On Fri, 2005-01-07 at 20:11, tkikuchi@users.sourceforge.net wrote: > Update of /cvsroot/mailman/mailman/messages/ja/doc > In directory sc8-pr-cvs1.sourceforge.net:/tmp/cvs-serv5102 > > Added Files: > Tag: Release_2_1-maint > mailman-install.tex > Log Message: > Add (partial) japanese translation of install manual. Should I try to build this and push it out to the web sites? -Barry -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 307 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-developers/attachments/20050107/8f3e1303/attachment.pgp From barry at python.org Sat Jan 8 04:38:26 2005 From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw) Date: Sat Jan 8 04:38:28 2005 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] mailman-2.1.6a2 is out In-Reply-To: <41DF30AE.8060909@is.kochi-u.ac.jp> References: <41BA4EC5.7070801@is.kochi-u.ac.jp> <35de0c3005010705513ee496c9@mail.gmail.com> <1105110881.26439.60.camel@geddy.wooz.org> <41DF30AE.8060909@is.kochi-u.ac.jp> Message-ID: <1105155505.9223.6.camel@geddy.wooz.org> On Fri, 2005-01-07 at 20:00, Tokio Kikuchi wrote: > Yes. I was already in waiting-for-release mode ;-). > Maybe I can add partial translation of mailman-install.tex in japanese. Cool. I will try to tab and spin an "official" beta release this weekend. -Barry -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 307 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-developers/attachments/20050107/e997b7d2/attachment.pgp From tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp Sat Jan 8 05:23:04 2005 From: tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp (Tokio Kikuchi) Date: Sat Jan 8 05:23:13 2005 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Re: [Mailman-checkins] mailman/messages/ja/doc mailman-install.tex, NONE, 1.1.2.1 In-Reply-To: <1105155399.9226.4.camel@geddy.wooz.org> References: <1105155399.9226.4.camel@geddy.wooz.org> Message-ID: <41DF6028.8090809@is.kochi-u.ac.jp> Barry Warsaw wrote: > On Fri, 2005-01-07 at 20:11, tkikuchi@users.sourceforge.net wrote: > >>Update of /cvsroot/mailman/mailman/messages/ja/doc >>In directory sc8-pr-cvs1.sourceforge.net:/tmp/cvs-serv5102 >> >>Added Files: >> Tag: Release_2_1-maint >> mailman-install.tex >>Log Message: >>Add (partial) japanese translation of install manual. > > > Should I try to build this and push it out to the web sites? > -Barry > Well, we may need a japanized latex to compile ps/pdf versions. Actually, I've put up a web version on my site. http://mm.tkikuchi.net/mailman-install/ http://mm.tkikuchi.net/mailman-members/ and I now working on http://mm.tkikuchi.net/www-ja/ Cheers, -- Tokio Kikuchi, tkikuchi@ is.kochi-u.ac.jp http://weather.is.kochi-u.ac.jp/ From jatinder at textualanalytics.com Sat Jan 8 06:22:30 2005 From: jatinder at textualanalytics.com (Jatinder Singh) Date: Sat Jan 8 06:21:32 2005 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] tkinter problem Message-ID: <000a01c4f542$0e92e0d0$8301a8c0@sanjay> Hi I am running a script which is importing tkinter from "/usr/local/lib/python2.3/lib-tk/Tkinter.py" and generating an error " import _tkinter ImportError: No module named _tkinter " can anybody tell me what is it? and how to get away with it? Regards Jatinder Singh From barry at python.org Sat Jan 8 06:33:24 2005 From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw) Date: Sat Jan 8 06:33:27 2005 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] tkinter problem In-Reply-To: <000a01c4f542$0e92e0d0$8301a8c0@sanjay> References: <000a01c4f542$0e92e0d0$8301a8c0@sanjay> Message-ID: <1105162404.9226.47.camel@geddy.wooz.org> On Sat, 2005-01-08 at 00:22, Jatinder Singh wrote: > Hi > I am running a script which is importing tkinter from "/usr/local/lib/python2.3/lib-tk/Tkinter.py" and generating an error > " import _tkinter > ImportError: No module named _tkinter " > > can anybody tell me what is it? and how to get away with it? This has nothing to do with GNU Mailman, so this is not the appropriate mailing list to ask your question on. Please try python-list@python.org. -Barry -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 307 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-developers/attachments/20050108/4d73facc/attachment.pgp From barry at python.org Sat Jan 8 16:44:20 2005 From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw) Date: Sat Jan 8 16:44:24 2005 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Re: [Mailman-checkins] mailman/messages/ja/doc mailman-install.tex, NONE, 1.1.2.1 In-Reply-To: <41DF6028.8090809@is.kochi-u.ac.jp> References: <1105155399.9226.4.camel@geddy.wooz.org> <41DF6028.8090809@is.kochi-u.ac.jp> Message-ID: <1105199060.2448.7.camel@presto.wooz.org> On Fri, 2005-01-07 at 23:23, Tokio Kikuchi wrote: > > Should I try to build this and push it out to the web sites? > > -Barry > > > > Well, we may need a japanized latex to compile ps/pdf versions. > Actually, I've put up a web version on my site. > http://mm.tkikuchi.net/mailman-install/ > http://mm.tkikuchi.net/mailman-members/ > and I now working on > http://mm.tkikuchi.net/www-ja/ Which I'm sure I don't have, unless my Gentoo version of latex can be coerced into building with Japanese support. The alternatives are for you to check the Japanese versions into admin/www yourself so that I can push them out to the web sites, or for us to simply add links to your site from the main site(s). I'm cc'ing mailman-i18n because this offer goes for anyone else who wants to maintain language-specific versions of the manuals. I'm happy either way -- we can maintain it in the Mailman CVS or link to your site. -Barry -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 307 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-developers/attachments/20050108/776b6412/attachment.pgp From tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp Sun Jan 9 06:10:17 2005 From: tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp (Tokio Kikuchi) Date: Sun Jan 9 06:10:30 2005 Subject: [Mailman-i18n] Re: [Mailman-Developers] Re: [Mailman-checkins] mailman/messages/ja/doc mailman-install.tex, NONE, 1.1.2.1 In-Reply-To: <1105199060.2448.7.camel@presto.wooz.org> References: <1105155399.9226.4.camel@geddy.wooz.org> <41DF6028.8090809@is.kochi-u.ac.jp> <1105199060.2448.7.camel@presto.wooz.org> Message-ID: <41E0BCB9.80308@is.kochi-u.ac.jp> Hi, > The alternatives are for you to check the Japanese versions into > admin/www yourself so that I can push them out to the web sites, or for > us to simply add links to your site from the main site(s). I would prefer keep them on my site and being linked from the main site, because the language components getting fat as new translations being added, people may complain about the number of html files in the tarball distribution. > > I'm cc'ing mailman-i18n because this offer goes for anyone else who > wants to maintain language-specific versions of the manuals. I'm happy > either way -- we can maintain it in the Mailman CVS or link to your > site. > BTW, my site will be out of service for next 24+ hours because of campus black out for checking the power facilities. :-< -- Tokio Kikuchi, tkikuchi@ is.kochi-u.ac.jp http://weather.is.kochi-u.ac.jp/ From msapiro at value.net Tue Jan 11 01:06:20 2005 From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Tue Jan 11 01:06:39 2005 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] error with bad email with % in addError in htmlformat.py Message-ID: The bug report is at https://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1099840&group_id=103&atid=100103 -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp Tue Jan 11 05:34:32 2005 From: tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp (Tokio Kikuchi) Date: Tue Jan 11 05:34:44 2005 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] error with bad email with % in addError in htmlformat.py In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <41E35758.8080207@is.kochi-u.ac.jp> Hi Mark, Mark Sapiro wrote: > The bug report is at > https://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1099840&group_id=103&atid=100103 > Looks like we must add more on this list of bad characters. Index: Utils.py =================================================================== --- Utils.py (revision 157) +++ Utils.py (working copy) @@ -200,7 +200,7 @@ # TBD: what other characters should be disallowed? -_badchars = re.compile(r'[][()<>|;^,\000-\037\177-\377]') +_badchars = re.compile(r'[][()<>|;^,%!\000-\037\177-\377]') def ValidateEmail(s): """Verify that the an email address isn't grossly evil.""" I'm going to add '%' and '!'. Are there any evil charcters like these? -- Tokio Kikuchi, tkikuchi@ is.kochi-u.ac.jp http://weather.is.kochi-u.ac.jp/ From msapiro at value.net Tue Jan 11 07:02:06 2005 From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Tue Jan 11 07:02:21 2005 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] error with bad email with % in addErrorin htmlformat.py In-Reply-To: <41E35758.8080207@is.kochi-u.ac.jp> Message-ID: Tokio Kikuchi wrote: > >Mark Sapiro wrote: > >> The bug report is at >> https://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1099840&group_id=103&atid=100103 >> > >Looks like we must add more on this list of bad characters. > >Index: Utils.py >=================================================================== >--- Utils.py (revision 157) >+++ Utils.py (working copy) >@@ -200,7 +200,7 @@ > > > # TBD: what other characters should be disallowed? >-_badchars = re.compile(r'[][()<>|;^,\000-\037\177-\377]') >+_badchars = re.compile(r'[][()<>|;^,%!\000-\037\177-\377]') > > def ValidateEmail(s): > """Verify that the an email address isn't grossly evil.""" > >I'm going to add '%' and '!'. Are there any evil charcters like these? Hi Tokio, I'm not sure that this is what we need to do for this particular error. I don't think it will hurt unless there are actually valid addresses with '%' or '!', but I'm not sure that it will fix the problem described in the bug report. The problem in the bug report comes about when the system attempts to report the error. For some reason which I don't understand, if the bad e-mail address being reported contains a '%' the string formatting operation that's part of addError fails. In other words, the problem doesn't occur because the '%' is allowed. The problem occurs in the reporting of a bad address that happens to contain a '%' in addition to being bad. I admit I don't really understand what's going on, but it seems that adding '%' to _badchars will not fix this problem. Rather, it will just enlarge the set of "e-mail addresses" for which the problem occurs. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org Tue Jan 11 09:39:02 2005 From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles) Date: Tue Jan 11 09:51:35 2005 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] error with bad email with % in addErrorin htmlformat.py In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: At 10:02 PM -0800 2005-01-10, Mark Sapiro wrote: > I'm not sure that this is what we need to do for this particular error. > I don't think it will hurt unless there are actually valid addresses > with '%' or '!', but I'm not sure that it will fix the problem > described in the bug report. The "percent hack" has been deprecated for years, but I believe that it is still technically a valid way of expressing e-mail addresses. Same with the UUCP "bang" style of addressing. I don't think that we want to prohibit either style of address from subscribing to the list. The acceptance, or rejection, of a particular address format should be left up to the MTA and the MTA configuration, not Mailman. There needs to be another way to solve this problem. -- Brad Knowles, "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755 SAGE member since 1995. See for more info. From darrell at grumblesmurf.net Tue Jan 11 18:29:17 2005 From: darrell at grumblesmurf.net (Darrell Fuhriman) Date: Tue Jan 11 18:29:22 2005 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] error with bad email with % in addErrorin htmlformat.py In-Reply-To: (Brad Knowles's message of "Tue, 11 Jan 2005 09:39:02 +0100") References: Message-ID: Brad Knowles writes: > The "percent hack" has been deprecated for years, but I > believe that it is still technically a valid way of expressing > e-mail addresses. Same with the UUCP "bang" style of Not only that, there are valid addresses that can contain those characters (in fact, nearly every character on that list). This is a perfectly valid e-mail address: "%@!"@example.com Unfortunately, far too many programs make all sorts of incorrect assumptions about what constitutes a truly valid e-mail address. The biggest incorrect assumption is that you can correctly validate one with a regex. You can't. The real problem is programmers who are too lazy to treat all the data as untrusted (I've certainly fallen into that category myself). If you treat your data carefully, you shouldn't have to do silly hacks like the one under discussion. In other words, the solution to the bug is not to reject things with a (validly used) '%' but to fix the program so that strings containing a '%' don't generate an error. This is a subset of the "Let's you save me some work" problem, as described here: http://www.asktog.com/Bughouse/10MostPersistentBugs.html To summarize, mailman should accept *all* RFC2822 valid e-mail addresses. It's not up to us to decide what's good and what isn't. If it's formatted correctly, then we should treat it as correct. If the software can't cope, that's a bug in the software, not in the e-mail address. Darrell From msapiro at value.net Tue Jan 11 20:45:22 2005 From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Tue Jan 11 20:45:48 2005 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] error with bad email with % in addErrorinhtmlformat.py In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Darrell Fuhriman wrote: > >In other words, the solution to the bug is not to reject things >with a (validly used) '%' but to fix the program so that strings >containing a '%' don't generate an error. I realize this thread has taken on a life of its own, but please note that the bug report with which I started this thread does not claim that '%' is or should be invalid in an e-mail address. What it does report is the fact that in certain contexts, if one gives an otherwise invalid e-mail address that happens to also contain a '%' (for example, user%name.example.com which is invalid because it doesn't contain '@'), the attempt to report the invalid address back to the user gives a 'We're sorry, we hit a bug!' error. To see this in action, go to the web admin pages for a list and try to add an address like the one in the previous paragraph to owner, moderator, ban_list or *_these_nonmembers. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp Tue Jan 11 22:27:54 2005 From: tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp (Tokio Kikuchi) Date: Tue Jan 11 22:28:08 2005 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] error with bad email with % in addErrorinhtmlformat.py In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <41E444DA.2040306@is.kochi-u.ac.jp> Mark Sapiro wrote: > Darrell Fuhriman wrote: > >>In other words, the solution to the bug is not to reject things >>with a (validly used) '%' but to fix the program so that strings >>containing a '%' don't generate an error. > > > I realize this thread has taken on a life of its own, but please note > that the bug report with which I started this thread does not claim > that '%' is or should be invalid in an e-mail address. Folks, I think I could track the bug. Sorry for misunderstanding the original post. I should have read the report with more care. > > What it does report is the fact that in certain contexts, if one gives > an otherwise invalid e-mail address that happens to also contain a '%' > (for example, user%name.example.com which is invalid because it > doesn't contain '@'), the attempt to report the invalid address back > to the user gives a 'We're sorry, we hit a bug!' error. > The problem is that addError() function has deprecated insertion function. It was replaced by i18n._(), I believe. -- Tokio Kikuchi, tkikuchi@ is.kochi-u.ac.jp http://weather.is.kochi-u.ac.jp/ From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org Tue Jan 11 23:16:10 2005 From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles) Date: Tue Jan 11 23:16:45 2005 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] error with bad email with % in addErrorin htmlformat.py In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: At 9:39 AM +0100 2005-01-11, Brad Knowles wrote: > There needs to be another way to solve this problem. I got a private reply with an alternative solution to this problem. With permission, I am including it here: Subject: RE: [Mailman-Developers] error with bad email with % in addErrorin htmlformat.py Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2005 10:10:07 -0500 From: "Mike Sandler" To: "Brad Knowles" I believe that it is a probably a good idea to fix the htmlformat.py addError to accept empty args. I have never programmed python before - I hacked a solution. I was the one that was afflicted with the problem. I "fixed" the problem by changing htmlformat.py around line 340 to: def addError(self, errmsg, tag=None, *args): if tag is None: tag = _('Error: ') if args is not (): self.AddItem(Header(3, Bold(FontAttr( _(tag), color=mm_cfg.WEB_ERROR_COLOR, size='+2')).Format() + Italic(errmsg % args ).Format())) else: self.AddItem(Header(3, Bold(FontAttr( _(tag), color=mm_cfg.WEB_ERROR_COLOR, size='+2')).Format() + Italic(errmsg).Format())) -- Brad Knowles, "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755 SAGE member since 1995. See for more info. From msapiro at value.net Tue Jan 11 23:58:53 2005 From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Tue Jan 11 23:59:07 2005 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] error with bad email with % in addErrorin htmlformat.py In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Brad Knowles wrote: >At 9:39 AM +0100 2005-01-11, Brad Knowles wrote: > >> There needs to be another way to solve this problem. > > I got a private reply with an alternative solution to this >problem. With permission, I am including it here: > >Subject: RE: [Mailman-Developers] error with bad email with % in >addErrorin htmlformat.py >Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2005 10:10:07 -0500 >From: "Mike Sandler" >To: "Brad Knowles" > >I believe that it is a probably a good idea to fix the htmlformat.py >addError to accept empty args. I have never programmed python before - I >hacked a solution. > >I was the one that was afflicted with the problem. I "fixed" the >problem by changing htmlformat.py around line 340 to: > def addError(self, errmsg, tag=None, *args): > if tag is None: > tag = _('Error: ') > if args is not (): > self.AddItem(Header(3, Bold(FontAttr( > _(tag), color=mm_cfg.WEB_ERROR_COLOR, >size='+2')).Format() + > Italic(errmsg % args ).Format())) > else: > self.AddItem(Header(3, Bold(FontAttr( > _(tag), color=mm_cfg.WEB_ERROR_COLOR, >size='+2')).Format() + > Italic(errmsg).Format())) Yes, Mike Sandler first raised this issue on the Mailman-users list and he and I had an off list exchange about it leading to my submitting the bug report. I know Mike thinks his solution is appropriate for him and is satisfied with it, but it is really more of an avoidance of the 'We're sorry, we hit a bug!' response than it is a solution to the problem. Actually, the 'We're sorry, we hit a bug!' response is appropriate in this case because there is a problem with args which causes the exception. args is always supposed to contain appropriate values for the string replacements in errmsg, and the real solution to this is to understand why it is empty or whatever in this pathological case and to fix that underlying problem, not to avoid the exception by issuing a "half baked" error message with unreplaced string specifiers which would just make it that much more difficult to find the source of the problem should it occur again. Tokio's last post in this thread seemed to indicate he has a handle on the cause and presumably the cure. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp Wed Jan 12 03:25:44 2005 From: tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp (Tokio Kikuchi) Date: Wed Jan 12 03:26:00 2005 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] error with bad email with % in addErrorin htmlformat.py In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <41E48AA8.90505@is.kochi-u.ac.jp> Hi, >>I was the one that was afflicted with the problem. I "fixed" the >>problem by changing htmlformat.py around line 340 to: >> def addError(self, errmsg, tag=None, *args): >> if tag is None: >> tag = _('Error: ') >> if args is not (): >> self.AddItem(Header(3, Bold(FontAttr( >> _(tag), color=mm_cfg.WEB_ERROR_COLOR, >>size='+2')).Format() + >> Italic(errmsg % args ).Format())) >> else: >> self.AddItem(Header(3, Bold(FontAttr( >> _(tag), color=mm_cfg.WEB_ERROR_COLOR, >>size='+2')).Format() + >> Italic(errmsg).Format())) This fix is right direction. I confirmed 'args' is no longer used by find-and-grepping the source files and removed '% args' finally. The variable insert is now done by i18n._(). Thank you all for this fix is just in time for 2.1.6 release. > Tokio's last post in this thread seemed to indicate he has a handle on > the cause and presumably the cure. -- Tokio Kikuchi, tkikuchi@ is.kochi-u.ac.jp http://weather.is.kochi-u.ac.jp/ From tobias at kabissa.org Sat Jan 15 20:22:18 2005 From: tobias at kabissa.org (Tobias Eigen) Date: Sat Jan 15 20:21:23 2005 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Fwd: Volunteer sought to code Mailman/Plesk integration script for use by African organizations Message-ID: Dear Mailman developers - Below is a message I attempted to post to the Python jobs board, but which never appeared there. As it is directly relevant to Mailman, I hope you don't mind that I also share it with you all directly. I am quite keen on solving this problem as soon as possible. Please let me know if you're interested and I'll give you the gory details. Any useful scripts or lessons learned shared back to the community, of course. Cheers, Tobias +1-202-265-6116 -- Tobias Eigen Executive Director Kabissa - Space for Change in Africa http://www.kabissa.org * Kabissa's vision is for a socially, economically, politically, and environmentally vibrant Africa, supported by a strong network of effective civil society organizations. * Begin forwarded message: > From: Tobias Eigen > Date: January 12, 2005 6:21:46 AM EST > To: jobs@python.org > Subject: Volunteer sought to code Mailman/Plesk integration script for > use by African organizations > > `Kabissa - Space for Change in Africa `_ > (Washington DC, USA) > =================================================================== > > **Job Description**: Volunteer sought to code Mailman/Plesk > integration script for use by African organizations > > Kabissa helps African organizations to put the Internet to > work for the people they serve. A key aspect of this is > maintaining a server which our member organizations in > Africa use to host Websites, mailboxes - and mailing lists. > > We need one-off help from a Linux/open source coder, > which might turn into more regular volunteering if there is > interest, to write code that integrates our existing > Mailman (http://www.list.org) installation with the new > version of Plesk (http://www.plesk.com) server > administration tool. The goal is to empower our members > to use Plesk to create, manage and then delete their own > lists autonomously. > > We know it is possible and have tested it on a manual > basis on specific lists, but need some additional coding > done to make it work on a turnkey basis for all lists on the > server. > > Any work done to be released (with credit where due) to > the open source community. > > You will need to have your own testing server. > > **What Python is used for**: Mailman. The integration script could be > a python script but doesn't need to be. > > * **Contact**: Tobias Eigen > * **E-mail contact**: tobias@kabissa.org > * **Other Contact Info**: +1-202-265-6116 > * **Web**: http://www.kabissa.org > > From msapiro at value.net Sun Jan 16 21:13:40 2005 From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Sun Jan 16 21:13:47 2005 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Error in installation manual Message-ID: >From the Mailman-Users list ... Robert Hsiung wrote: > >Anyway, I'm trying to set up Mailman, and I came upon this: > >>Make any necessary changes in the mm_cfg.py file, not in the mm_cfg.py file. >>http://www.list.org/mailman-install/node43.html > >Where should necessary changes be made? Thanks, You should make changes in mm_cfg.py. The section you quote above should say "Make any necessary changes in the mm_cfg.py file, not in the Defaults.py file." -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From barry at python.org Sun Jan 16 22:03:00 2005 From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw) Date: Sun Jan 16 22:03:03 2005 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] error with bad email with % in addErrorin htmlformat.py In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1105909380.5933.36.camel@geddy.wooz.org> On Tue, 2005-01-11 at 12:29, Darrell Fuhriman wrote: > To summarize, mailman should accept *all* RFC2822 valid e-mail > addresses. It's not up to us to decide what's good and what > isn't. If it's formatted correctly, then we should treat it as > correct. If the software can't cope, that's a bug in the > software, not in the e-mail address. In principle I totally agree. It may not be feasible to completely audit MM2.1 for where fully supporting RFC 2822 will break things. It should absolutely be a goal for MM3. -Barry -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 307 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-developers/attachments/20050116/2bd7edc2/attachment.pgp From barry at python.org Mon Jan 17 00:29:58 2005 From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw) Date: Mon Jan 17 00:30:02 2005 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Mailman 2.1.6 beta 1 Message-ID: <1105918198.5933.59.camel@geddy.wooz.org> I put together a tarball for Mailman 2.1.6 beta 1, but unfortunately SourceForge's file upload machine is out of disk space. For now you can get the file from: http://www.list.org/mailman-2.1.6b1.tgz I'll get that uploaded to SF as soon as possible. Huge thanks go out to Tokio Kikuchi for all his great work on this release. -Barry -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 307 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-developers/attachments/20050116/39692fd3/attachment.pgp From barry at python.org Mon Jan 17 01:08:55 2005 From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw) Date: Mon Jan 17 01:08:59 2005 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Re: [Mailman-Announce] Mailman 2.1.6 beta 1 In-Reply-To: <1105918198.5933.59.camel@geddy.wooz.org> References: <1105918198.5933.59.camel@geddy.wooz.org> Message-ID: <1105920535.5933.66.camel@geddy.wooz.org> On Sun, 2005-01-16 at 18:29, Barry Warsaw wrote: > I put together a tarball for Mailman 2.1.6 beta 1 I forgot to add the NEWS file excerpt of changes since 2.1.5: - Most of the installation instructions have been moved to a latex document. See admin/www/mailman-install/index.html for details. - VERP_PROBES is disabled by default. - bin/withlist can be run without a list name, but only if -i is given. Also, withlist puts the directory it's found in at the end of sys.path, making it easier to run withlist scripts that live in $prefix/bin. - bin/newlist grew two new options: -u/--urlhost and -e/--emailhost which lets the user provide the web and email hostnames for the new mailing list. This is a better way to specify the domain for the list, rather than the old 'mylist@hostname' syntax (which is still supported for backward compatibility, but deprecated). - Added the ability for Mailman generated passwords (both member and list admin) to be more cryptographically secure. See new configuration variables USER_FRIENDLY_PASSWORDS, MEMBER_PASSWORD_LENGTH, and ADMIN_PASSWORD_LENGTH. Also added a new bin/withlist script called reset_pw.py which can be used to reset all member passwords. Passwords generated by Mailman are now 8 characters by default for members, and 10 characters for list administrators. - Allow editing of the welcome message from the admin page (1085501). - A potential cross-site scripting hole in the driver script has been closed. Thanks to Florian Weimer for its discovery. Also, turn STEALTH_MODE on by default. - Chinese languages moved from 'big5' and 'gb' to 'zh_TW' and 'zh_CN' respectively for compliance to the IANA spec. Note that neither language is supported yet. - Python 2.4 compatibility issue: time.strftime() became strict about the 'day of year' range. (1078482) - New feature: automatic discards of held messages. List owners can now set how many days to hold the messages in the moderator request queue. cron/checkdb will automatically discard old messages. (790494) - Improved mail address sanity check. (1030228) - SpamDetect.py now checks attachment header. (1026977) - New feature: subject_prefix can be configured to include a sequence number which is taken from the post_id variable. Also, the prefix is always put at the start of the subject, i.e. "[list-name] Re: original subject" - List owners can now use Scrubber to get the attachments scrubbed (held in the web archive), if the site admin permits it in mm_cfg.py. New variables introduced are SCRUBBER_DONT_USE_ATTACHMENT_FILENAME and SCRUBBER_USE_ATTACHMENT_FILENAME_EXTENSION in Defaults.py for scrubber behavior. (904850) - Filter attachments by filename extensions. (1027882) - Bugs and patches: 955381 (older Python compatibility), 1020102/1013079/ 1020013 (fix spam filter removed), 665569 (newer Postfix bounce detection), 970383 (moderator -1 admin requests pending), 873035 (subject handling in -request mail), 799166/946554 (makefile compatibility), 872068 (add header/footer via unicode), 1032434 (KNOWN_SPAMMERS check for multi-header), 1025372 (empty Cc:), 789015 (fix pipermail URL), 948152 (Out of date link on Docs), 1099138 (Scrubber.py breaks on None part), 1099840/1099840 (deprecated % insertion), -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 307 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-developers/attachments/20050116/3053c2ba/attachment.pgp From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org Tue Jan 18 09:42:44 2005 From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles) Date: Tue Jan 18 09:42:58 2005 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Fwd: Volunteer sought to code Mailman/Plesk integration script for use by African organizations In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: At 2:22 PM -0500 2005-01-15, Tobias Eigen wrote: > As it is directly relevant to Mailman, I > hope you don't mind that I also share it with you all directly. I have no problem with this. IMO, we should have a place where requests of this sort would properly belong, even though they aren't paying jobs. But that's just my personal opinion. > I am > quite keen on solving this problem as soon as possible. Please let me > know if you're interested and I'll give you the gory details. Any > useful scripts or lessons learned shared back to the community, of course. It's funny. A totally different question regarding integration between Mailman and Plesk finally lead me to create FAQ 6.15 at . Only now that I happen to be looking through my Python-related e-mail for other things, do I come back to this and realize that you're talking about the same sort of thing -- only you're talking about fixing the problem that we cannot (today) fix ourselves. Of course, when you're talking about simulating the functionality of Yahoo!Groups, there's also FAQ 1.26 at . Speaking only for myself, I would very much like to see us get to a situation where we can eliminate these two FAQ entries, and basically "just make it work". I think this would be a huge benefit to the entire Mailman community. I can't help you with the Python coding, and I don't know squat about Plesk, but if you need help with Mailman administration, please let me know. I'm willing to step up and do what I can to help towards this goal, and I hope that other people on this list are willing and able to do the same. -- Brad Knowles, "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755 SAGE member since 1995. See for more info. From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org Thu Jan 20 15:56:18 2005 From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles) Date: Thu Jan 20 15:56:48 2005 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Admin-controlled rejection text... Message-ID: Folks, I've been doing a bit of hacking on Mailman. The issue is that if you set member_moderation_action to be Reject instead of Hold, you can supply a nice little bit of text in member_moderation_notice, or you can let the system supply a standard text for you. My problem is that I want to leave member_moderation_action set to Hold, and set the generic_nonmember_action to be Reject, but still supply my own text. Let's look at how these two are handled differently. First, member_moderation_action, has the following lines in Mailman/Handlers/Moderate.py, starting at line 59: if mlist.getMemberOption(sender, mm_cfg.Moderate): # Note that for member_moderation_action, 0==Hold, 1=Reject, # 2==Discard if mlist.member_moderation_action == 0: # Hold. BAW: WIBNI we could add the member_moderation_notice # to the notice sent back to the sender? msgdata['sender'] = sender Hold.hold_for_approval(mlist, msg, msgdata, ModeratedMemberPost) elif mlist.member_moderation_action == 1: # Reject text = mlist.member_moderation_notice if text: text = Utils.wrap(text) else: # Use the default RejectMessage notice string text = None raise Errors.RejectMessage, text elif mlist.member_moderation_action == 2: # Discard. BAW: Again, it would be nice if we could send a # discard notice to the sender raise Errors.DiscardMessage else: assert 0, 'bad member_moderation_action' # Should we do anything explict to mark this message as getting past # this point? No, because further pipeline handlers will need to do # their own thing. Okay, I don't know Python, but I can kinda follow that. Notice how the value of "text" is modified depending on whether or not member_moderation_notice is empty or not, and how this code directly raises the error instead of calling a subroutine. Now, let's consider what happens with generic_nonmember_action. We have the following lines in Mailman/Handlers/Moderate.py, starting at line 101: # Okay, so the sender wasn't specified explicitly by any of the non-member # moderation configuration variables. Handle by way of generic non-member # action. assert 0 <= mlist.generic_nonmember_action <= 4 if mlist.generic_nonmember_action == 0: # Accept return elif mlist.generic_nonmember_action == 1: Hold.hold_for_approval(mlist, msg, msgdata, Hold.NonMemberPost) elif mlist.generic_nonmember_action == 2: do_reject(mlist) elif mlist.generic_nonmember_action == 3: do_discard(mlist, msg) Note how this does very little other than decide which subroutine to call, then call it. No check is made for member_moderation_notice, nor is any specific rejection text supplied. Let's take a look at do_reject(), starting at line 136: def do_reject(mlist): listowner = mlist.GetOwnerEmail() raise Errors.RejectMessage, Utils.wrap(_("""\ You are not allowed to post to this mailing list, and your message has been automatically rejected. If you think that your messages are being rejected in error, contact the mailing list owner at %(listowner)s.""")) This creates a hard-coded message with a %()s substitution, and sends that out. Now, am I missing something here, or should we not be calling do_reject() in each of these cases and having just the one canonical "raise Errors.RejectMessage", and passing this routine a string to be used as the rejection notice, or allowing it to decide to fill one in for us in the case that we provide "None"? Okay, so I modified do_reject to at least check the value of member_moderation_notice and to use that text, if it is non-empty. Here's what I've now got: def do_reject(mlist): listowner = mlist.GetOwnerEmail() text = mlist.member_moderation_notice if text: text = Utils.wrap(text) else: # Use the default RejectMessage notice string text = Utils.wrap(_("""\ You are not allowed to post to this mailing list, and your message has been automatically rejected. If you think that your messages are being rejected in error, contact the mailing list owner at %(listowner)s.""")) # Reject this sucker raise Errors.RejectMessage, text This works. Well, mostly. I'd be submitting this as a patch and working on getting this put into production, if it worked completely. I know that what we should really have is a separate generic_nonmember_notice and have the routine check that instead, but I would be willing to take this as a small but significant improvement in the meanwhile. Problem is, while we can provide a %()s substitution ourselves in the text we feed to Utils.wrap, I can't do the same thing from member_moderation_notice. Instead, it simply outputs the literal string, and gives me "<" and ">" as opposed to the real less-than/greater-than symbols that I want to use around the URLs. I'm stumped. I don't even know what to search for in the archives of the mailman-users and mailman-developers lists. Can anyone here lend me a clue? -- Brad Knowles, "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755 SAGE member since 1995. See for more info. From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org Thu Jan 20 16:11:31 2005 From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles) Date: Thu Jan 20 16:13:39 2005 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Admin-controlled rejection text... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: At 3:56 PM +0100 2005-01-20, Brad Knowles wrote: > Problem is, while we can provide a %()s substitution ourselves in > the text we feed to Utils.wrap, I can't do the same thing from > member_moderation_notice. Instead, it simply outputs the literal > string, and gives me "<" and ">" as opposed to the real > less-than/greater-than symbols that I want to use around the URLs. > > I'm stumped. I don't even know what to search for in the archives > of the mailman-users and mailman-developers lists. I just realized that I should give you folks an example of what I'm talking about. With my modified do_reject(), I put the following text into the member_moderation_notice field: Please note that this mailing list has been closed to postings via e-mail from non-subscribers. If you wish to subscribe to this mailing list, please go to the web page at and follow the instructions there. If you think that your messages are being rejected in error, please contact the mailing list owner at %(listowner)s. Here's the literal text that I'm getting back in the error message: Please note that this mailing list has been closed to postings via e-mail from non-subscribers. If you wish to subscribe to this mailing list, please go to the web page at <https://url.here/mailman/listinfo/listname> and follow the instructions there. If you think that your messages are being rejected in error, please contact the mailing list owner at %(listowner)s. Notice how we have the undesirable "%lt;" and "%gt;" instead of the proper less-than/greather-than symbols, and the literal "%(listowner)s" instead of the actual listowner address. Now, here's the default text being fed in via do_reject: You are not allowed to post to this mailing list, and your message has been automatically rejected. If you think that your messages are being rejected in error, contact the mailing list owner at %(listowner)s. Finally, here's how that default text looks in the rejection message: You are not allowed to post to this mailing list, and your message has been automatically rejected. If you think that your messages are being rejected in error, contact the mailing list owner at listname-owner@url.here. What process is being applied to the literal text supplied within the program, that is not being applied to the member_moderation_notice? How do I make sure that process *is* applied to the member_moderation_notice? -- Brad Knowles, "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755 SAGE member since 1995. See for more info. From barry at python.org Thu Jan 20 17:23:10 2005 From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw) Date: Thu Jan 20 17:23:17 2005 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] [Fwd: Re: [Mailman-Announce] Mailman 2.1.6 beta 1] Message-ID: <1106238190.9816.79.camel@geddy.wooz.org> Skipped content of type multipart/mixed-------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 307 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-developers/attachments/20050120/be0370e1/attachment.pgp From tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp Fri Jan 21 01:14:54 2005 From: tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp (Tokio Kikuchi) Date: Fri Jan 21 01:15:07 2005 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] [Fwd: Re: [Mailman-Announce] Mailman 2.1.6 beta 1] In-Reply-To: <1106238190.9816.79.camel@geddy.wooz.org> References: <1106238190.9816.79.camel@geddy.wooz.org> Message-ID: <41F0497E.5070104@is.kochi-u.ac.jp> Hi Jared, Barry Warsaw wrote: > Re: [Mailman-Announce] Mailman 2.1.6 beta 1 > From: > Jared Mauch > Date: > Wed, 19 Jan 2005 23:34:45 -0500 > To: > Barry Warsaw > > > Barry, > > this patch: > > http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-checkins@python.org/msg04956.html > > has caused broken behaviour in mail threading because it > always moves the subject prefix to the beginning of > the line, instead of leaving it where it where it has in the > past after Re: [j-nsp] or whatnot. This is useful if some one post a message with subject like this: Blar Blar Blar Blar Blar Blar Blar Was Re: [prefix] Foo Bar List subscribers may wonder why this messages sneaked in the thread. It had happend many times in Mailman-* lists. > > this is really annoying and has caused me to have to back out > that in my installation. > > live example: > > http://puck.nether.net//pipermail/cisco-nsp/2005-January/thread.html > > note how for example the "Packet Generator" thread isn't > working correctly. Looks like working, to me. I believe threading in the archive is performed by looking the In-Reply-To: header and not by 'Re:' keyword (or what should be done if a thread is divided in two or more?). There are also not threaded messages in the archive before 2.1.6b1 (I can tell by [c-nsp] is not followed by Re:). The real problem is that there are quite a few mailers which don't add In-Reply-To: header. The patch has been used among Japanaese communities more than 4 years and also used in other countries since it was uploaed in the SF patch area, and no such complaint has been heard. IMHO, if the problem is within your mail user agent, you must complain against the mailer's developer. Regards, -- Tokio Kikuchi, tkikuchi@ is.kochi-u.ac.jp http://weather.is.kochi-u.ac.jp/ From claw at kanga.nu Fri Jan 21 01:48:20 2005 From: claw at kanga.nu (J C Lawrence) Date: Fri Jan 21 01:48:26 2005 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] [Fwd: Re: [Mailman-Announce] Mailman 2.1.6 beta 1] In-Reply-To: Message from Tokio Kikuchi of "Fri, 21 Jan 2005 09:14:54 +0900." <41F0497E.5070104@is.kochi-u.ac.jp> References: <1106238190.9816.79.camel@geddy.wooz.org> <41F0497E.5070104@is.kochi-u.ac.jp> Message-ID: <12240.1106268500@kanga.nu> On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 09:14:54 +0900 Tokio Kikuchi wrote: > This is useful if some one post a message with subject like this: Blar > Blar Blar Blar Blar Blar Blar Was Re: [prefix] Foo Bar List > subscribers may wonder why this messages sneaked in the thread. It had > happend many times in Mailman-* lists. The canonical case is: Subject: This, that and the other (was: Something else entirely) > I believe threading in the archive is performed by looking the > In-Reply-To: header and not by 'Re:' keyword (or what should be done > if a thread is divided in two or more?). There are also not threaded > messages in the archive before 2.1.6b1 (I can tell by [c-nsp] is not > followed by Re:). The real problem is that there are quite a few > mailers which don't add In-Reply-To: header. True, or References:, and a fair percentage of those that do generate References, don't do so properly. A good coverage of how to thread messages may be found here: http://hometown.aol.com/tomyanul/grl.html -- J C Lawrence ---------(*) Satan, oscillate my metallic sonatas. claw@kanga.nu He lived as a devil, eh? http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/ Evil is a name of a foeman, as I live. From claw at kanga.nu Fri Jan 21 03:34:41 2005 From: claw at kanga.nu (J C Lawrence) Date: Fri Jan 21 03:34:51 2005 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] [Fwd: Re: [Mailman-Announce] Mailman 2.1.6 beta 1] In-Reply-To: Message from Jared Mauch of "Thu, 20 Jan 2005 20:38:22 EST." <20050121013822.GJ34067@puck.nether.net> References: <1106238190.9816.79.camel@geddy.wooz.org> <41F0497E.5070104@is.kochi-u.ac.jp> <12240.1106268500@kanga.nu> <20050121013822.GJ34067@puck.nether.net> Message-ID: <14519.1106274881@kanga.nu> On Thu, 20 Jan 2005 20:38:22 -0500 Jared Mauch wrote: > On Thu, Jan 20, 2005 at 04:48:20PM -0800, J C Lawrence wrote: >> A good coverage of how to thread messages may be found here: >> http://hometown.aol.com/tomyanul/grl.html > Since nether.net was registered prior to aol.com, I am not > comfortable viewing what someone there might think about threading. Bah, I also posted the wrong URL. Sorry about that, I must have grabbed the wrong cut buffer. Here's the correct URL on threading: http://www.jwz.org/doc/threading.html -- J C Lawrence ---------(*) Satan, oscillate my metallic sonatas. claw@kanga.nu He lived as a devil, eh? http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/ Evil is a name of a foeman, as I live. From msapiro at value.net Fri Jan 21 03:55:51 2005 From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Fri Jan 21 03:56:11 2005 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Admin-controlled rejectiontext... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Brad Knowles wrote: >At 3:56 PM +0100 2005-01-20, Brad Knowles wrote: > >> Problem is, while we can provide a %()s substitution ourselves in >> the text we feed to Utils.wrap, I can't do the same thing from >> member_moderation_notice. Instead, it simply outputs the literal >> string, and gives me "<" and ">" as opposed to the real >> less-than/greater-than symbols that I want to use around the URLs. >> >> I'm stumped. I don't even know what to search for in the archives >> of the mailman-users and mailman-developers lists. > > I just realized that I should give you folks an example of what >I'm talking about. With my modified do_reject(), I put the following >text into the member_moderation_notice field: > > Please note that this mailing list has been closed to postings > via e-mail from non-subscribers. > > If you wish to subscribe to this mailing list, please go to > the web page at > and follow the instructions there. > > If you think that your messages are being rejected in error, > please contact the mailing list owner at %(listowner)s. > > > Here's the literal text that I'm getting back in the error message: > > Please note that this mailing list has been closed to postings > via e-mail from non-subscribers. > > If you wish to subscribe to this mailing list, please go to > the web page at <https://url.here/mailman/listinfo/listname> > and follow the instructions there. > > If you think that your messages are being rejected in error, > please contact the mailing list owner at %(listowner)s. > > > Notice how we have the undesirable "%lt;" and "%gt;" instead of >the proper less-than/greather-than symbols, and the literal >"%(listowner)s" instead of the actual listowner address. > > Now, here's the default text being fed in via do_reject: > > You are not allowed to post to this mailing list, and your > message has been automatically rejected. If you think that > your messages are being rejected in error, contact the > mailing list owner at %(listowner)s. > > > Finally, here's how that default text looks in the rejection message: > > You are not allowed to post to this mailing list, and your > message has been automatically rejected. If you think that > your messages are being rejected in error, contact the > mailing list owner at listname-owner@url.here. > > > > What process is being applied to the literal text supplied within >the program, that is not being applied to the >member_moderation_notice? How do I make sure that process *is* >applied to the member_moderation_notice? There are two different issues here I think. First is all text entered via the web admin interface is HTML escaped resulting in the <, etc. To avoid this, set the text for member_moderation_notice using bin/config_list instead of using the web interface. The second issue is the non replacement of %(listowner)s in your text. As I understand it, the substitution occurs in i18n._() processing of the text. The literal text occurs in >Utils.wrap(_("""\ >You are not allowed to post to this mailing list, and your message has been >automatically rejected. If you think that your messages are being rejected in >error, contact the mailing list owner at %(listowner)s.""")) The _() method both replaces this text with the appropriate language translation if the current language is not English and does the %()s substitutions. Your member_moderation_notice text isn't being processed in this way. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From fehwalker at gmail.com Fri Jan 21 04:27:55 2005 From: fehwalker at gmail.com (Bryan Fullerton) Date: Fri Jan 21 04:27:59 2005 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] HTML escaping in text blobs, was Re: Admin-controlled rejectiontext... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <35de0c3005012019271263afa8@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, 20 Jan 2005 18:55:51 -0800, Mark Sapiro wrote: > First is all text entered via the web admin interface is HTML escaped > resulting in the <, etc. > > To avoid this, set the text for member_moderation_notice using > bin/config_list instead of using the web interface. This generally needs a better solution. "Use bin/config_list" is fine as a solution for site admins, but isn't useful for list admins - they're basically stuck until the site admins manually handle each request. Perhaps parsing the escaped bits or tag replacement for the text blobs submitted via the web interface? This isn't a new issue on the web, other people using python must have found some way of dealing with it. Or, alternatively, perhaps email commands for updating the various text blobs? (that has other charset issues, but...) Bryan From msapiro at value.net Fri Jan 21 05:40:51 2005 From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Fri Jan 21 05:40:55 2005 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] HTML escaping in text blobs, was Re: Admin-controlled rejectiontext... In-Reply-To: <35de0c3005012019271263afa8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Bryan Fullerton wrote: >On Thu, 20 Jan 2005 18:55:51 -0800, Mark Sapiro wrote: >> First is all text entered via the web admin interface is HTML escaped >> resulting in the <, etc. >> >> To avoid this, set the text for member_moderation_notice using >> bin/config_list instead of using the web interface. > >This generally needs a better solution. "Use bin/config_list" is fine >as a solution for site admins, but isn't useful for list admins - >they're basically stuck until the site admins manually handle each >request. > >Perhaps parsing the escaped bits or tag replacement for the text blobs >submitted via the web interface? This isn't a new issue on the web, >other people using python must have found some way of dealing with it. I agree that it would be good to have a solution that would allow list-admins to put HTML tags or even just "&" characters in some of these fields. Currently, the 'info' field is treated specially and allows anything but a tag. Everything else is fully HTML escaped. The purpose of this is to prevent XSS attacks presumably by list admins. Since the contents of these fields are displayed on the admin web pages regardless of how they are entered, if list admins are deemed untrustworthy at the site level, they shouldn't be allowed to put this stuff in by any method. I personally know very little about XSS attacks and am unable to comment intelligently on how much security is required. >Or, alternatively, perhaps email commands for updating the various >text blobs? (that has other charset issues, but...) -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org Fri Jan 21 09:08:53 2005 From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles) Date: Fri Jan 21 09:11:17 2005 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Admin-controlled rejectiontext... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: At 6:55 PM -0800 2005-01-20, Mark Sapiro wrote: > First is all text entered via the web admin interface is HTML escaped > resulting in the <, etc. > > To avoid this, set the text for member_moderation_notice using > bin/config_list instead of using the web interface. Blargh. The goal was to give us something that would be easily editable from the web interface. ;( Okay, I can work around this. > The _() method both replaces this text with the appropriate language > translation if the current language is not English and does the %()s > substitutions. > > Your member_moderation_notice text isn't being processed in this way. Aha! Okay, I'll try wrapping that call in _() and see if that helps. Thanks! -- Brad Knowles, "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755 SAGE member since 1995. See for more info. From tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp Fri Jan 21 14:54:16 2005 From: tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp (Tokio Kikuchi) Date: Fri Jan 21 14:54:46 2005 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] [Fwd: Re: [Mailman-Announce] Mailman 2.1.6 beta 1] In-Reply-To: <20050121095527.GW82947@snowcrash.tpb.net> References: <1106238190.9816.79.camel@geddy.wooz.org> <41F0497E.5070104@is.kochi-u.ac.jp> <12240.1106268500@kanga.nu> <20050121013822.GJ34067@puck.nether.net> <14519.1106274881@kanga.nu> <20050121095527.GW82947@snowcrash.tpb.net> Message-ID: <41F10988.2000101@is.kochi-u.ac.jp> Niels Bakker wrote: > Hello, > >> http://www.jwz.org/doc/threading.html > > Mailman 2.1.6b1 breaks this algorithm, specifically this step: > > | Only two things need to be done with the subject strings: ask whether > | they begin with `Re:', and compare the non-Re parts for equivalence. > | So you can get away with interning or otherwise hashing these, too. > > ... by moving the tag to the front, which makes the Subject not start > with "Re: " anymore (or, more precisely, Mutt's $reply_regexp variable). OK, it's not pipermail problem but MUA's. Pipermail never rely ambiguous "Re:" threading. (That was why I was always annoyed by "no subject" or "question" message threaded under very old messages in my Netscape 7.) > Therefore, please back out this change. I think I can add some code before the 2.1.6 final release to exchage Re: and prefix order for the subject prefix without numbering. (Yes, we now have a nice feature to add numbering in the subject prefix.) -- Tokio Kikuchi, tkikuchi@ is.kochi-u.ac.jp http://weather.is.kochi-u.ac.jp/ From jwblist at olympus.net Fri Jan 21 18:21:50 2005 From: jwblist at olympus.net (John W. Baxter) Date: Fri Jan 21 18:22:00 2005 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] [Fwd: Re: [Mailman-Announce] Mailman 2.1.6 beta 1] In-Reply-To: <41F10988.2000101@is.kochi-u.ac.jp> Message-ID: On 1/21/2005 5:54, "Tokio Kikuchi" wrote: > think I can add some code before the 2.1.6 final release to exchage > Re: and prefix order for the subject prefix without numbering. (Yes, we > now have a nice feature to add numbering in the subject prefix.) Can you do the same for "AW" and some of the other non-English forms of "Re"? I'm only asking because you'll be working in the code anyhow. --John From jwblist at olympus.net Fri Jan 21 22:03:44 2005 From: jwblist at olympus.net (John W. Baxter) Date: Fri Jan 21 22:03:52 2005 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] What would send to bare administrator Message-ID: OK, that subject might hit a filter somewhere. ;-) Mark Shapiro wrote in another thread, in mailman-users: If you haven't changed SMTP_LOG_EACH_FAILURE in mm_cfg.py, the 3 failures should be logged in Mailman's smtp-failure log. Which prompted me to look there, and find Jan 18 14:47:56 2005 (20931) delivery to administrator failed with code 501: : recipient address must contain a domain That's true, the way the MTA (Exim) is configured. A quick grep in the source didn't reveal a case where Mailman attempts to send mail to the unqualified recipient . Does anyone happen to know where it is? When I get back (from the doctor) I'll try to find out what was going on Tuesday around that time. --John From tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp Fri Jan 21 22:31:18 2005 From: tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp (Tokio Kikuchi) Date: Fri Jan 21 22:31:35 2005 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] [Fwd: Re: [Mailman-Announce] Mailman 2.1.6 beta 1] In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <41F174A6.9050305@is.kochi-u.ac.jp> >> think I can add some code before the 2.1.6 final release to exchage >>Re: and prefix order for the subject prefix without numbering. (Yes, we >>now have a nice feature to add numbering in the subject prefix.) > > > Can you do the same for "AW" and some of the other non-English forms of > "Re"? I'm only asking because you'll be working in the code anyhow. Oh yes, I'm doing this also. Are there any other like this one? ;-) -- Tokio Kikuchi, tkikuchi@ is.kochi-u.ac.jp http://weather.is.kochi-u.ac.jp/ From tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp Fri Jan 21 22:31:30 2005 From: tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp (Tokio Kikuchi) Date: Fri Jan 21 22:31:44 2005 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] [Fwd: Re: [Mailman-Announce] Mailman 2.1.6 beta 1] In-Reply-To: <20050121162856.GC43576@snowcrash.tpb.net> References: <1106238190.9816.79.camel@geddy.wooz.org> <41F0497E.5070104@is.kochi-u.ac.jp> <12240.1106268500@kanga.nu> <20050121013822.GJ34067@puck.nether.net> <14519.1106274881@kanga.nu> <20050121095527.GW82947@snowcrash.tpb.net> <41F10988.2000101@is.kochi-u.ac.jp> <20050121162856.GC43576@snowcrash.tpb.net> Message-ID: <41F174B2.8090002@is.kochi-u.ac.jp> >>I think I can add some code before the 2.1.6 final release to exchage >>Re: and prefix order for the subject prefix without numbering. (Yes, we >>now have a nice feature to add numbering in the subject prefix.) > > > Or avoid messing with the Subject in the first place if the tag is > already there? Sounds like the easier way out to me... Like I said, I want to get rid of prefix far away from the start of the subject. Anyway, I wanted fix another small bug that Re: is MIME encoded. -- Tokio Kikuchi, tkikuchi@ is.kochi-u.ac.jp http://weather.is.kochi-u.ac.jp/ From bob at nleaudio.com Fri Jan 21 22:30:11 2005 From: bob at nleaudio.com (Bob Puff@NLE) Date: Fri Jan 21 22:37:08 2005 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] [Fwd: Re: [Mailman-Announce] Mailman 2.1.6 beta 1] In-Reply-To: <41F174B2.8090002@is.kochi-u.ac.jp> References: <1106238190.9816.79.camel@geddy.wooz.org> <41F0497E.5070104@is.kochi-u.ac.jp> <12240.1106268500@kanga.nu> <20050121013822.GJ34067@puck.nether.net> <14519.1106274881@kanga.nu> <20050121095527.GW82947@snowcrash.tpb.net> <41F10988.2000101@is.kochi-u.ac.jp> <20050121162856.GC43576@snowcrash.tpb.net> <41F174B2.8090002@is.kochi-u.ac.jp> Message-ID: <41F17463.8090405@nleaudio.com> I haven't really been following this thread, but I hope you meant that the new format will be: Subject: [prefix] testing ..and replies will be modified to look like: Subject: [prefix] Re: testing instead of the current: Subject: Re: [prefix] testing If you meant something else, please explain. This could potentially mess up some of my pipermail mods. Bob Tokio Kikuchi wrote: > >>> I think I can add some code before the 2.1.6 final release to exchage >>> Re: and prefix order for the subject prefix without numbering. (Yes, >>> we now have a nice feature to add numbering in the subject prefix.) >> >> >> >> Or avoid messing with the Subject in the first place if the tag is >> already there? Sounds like the easier way out to me... > > > Like I said, I want to get rid of prefix far away from the start of the > subject. > > Anyway, I wanted fix another small bug that Re: is MIME encoded. > -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.6.13 - Release Date: 1/16/2005 From tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp Fri Jan 21 22:58:33 2005 From: tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp (Tokio Kikuchi) Date: Fri Jan 21 22:58:46 2005 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] [Fwd: Re: [Mailman-Announce] Mailman 2.1.6 beta 1] In-Reply-To: <41F17463.8090405@nleaudio.com> References: <1106238190.9816.79.camel@geddy.wooz.org> <41F0497E.5070104@is.kochi-u.ac.jp> <12240.1106268500@kanga.nu> <20050121013822.GJ34067@puck.nether.net> <14519.1106274881@kanga.nu> <20050121095527.GW82947@snowcrash.tpb.net> <41F10988.2000101@is.kochi-u.ac.jp> <20050121162856.GC43576@snowcrash.tpb.net> <41F174B2.8090002@is.kochi-u.ac.jp> <41F17463.8090405@nleaudio.com> Message-ID: <41F17B09.5060609@is.kochi-u.ac.jp> > I haven't really been following this thread, but I hope you meant that > the new format will be: > > Subject: [prefix] testing > > ..and replies will be modified to look like: > > Subject: [prefix] Re: testing > > instead of the current: > > Subject: Re: [prefix] testing It will be the site administrator's choice. > > If you meant something else, please explain. This could potentially > mess up some of my pipermail mods. Why we need this change; we must change prefix each time the message pass CookHeaders.py if we are to add number in the prefix: First post: Subject: [prefix 1] testing Second posted: Subject: Re: [prefix 1] testing Second delivered from mailman: Subject: [prefix 2] Re: testing Third posted: Subject: Re: [prefix 2] Re: tesing Third delivered: Subject: [prefix 3] Re: testing -- Tokio Kikuchi, tkikuchi@ is.kochi-u.ac.jp http://weather.is.kochi-u.ac.jp/ From msapiro at value.net Fri Jan 21 23:06:26 2005 From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Fri Jan 21 23:06:46 2005 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] What would send to bare administrator In-Reply-To: Message-ID: John W. Baxter wrote: > >A quick grep in the source didn't reveal a case where Mailman attempts to >send mail to the unqualified recipient . Does anyone happen >to know where it is? I don't know, but is it possible that 'owner' or 'moderator' for some list - maybe the site (mailman) list - is set to 'administrator'? -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From mgabriel at ecology.uni-kiel.de Fri Jan 21 23:33:39 2005 From: mgabriel at ecology.uni-kiel.de (Mike Gabriel) Date: Fri Jan 21 23:33:51 2005 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Postfix.py extension for virtual_domain management Message-ID: <200501212333.44151.mgabriel@ecology.uni-kiel.de> hi there, i have newly subscribed to the list as i want to propose an alternative (extended) postfix MTA backend. i called it PostfixVirtual.py as a working title. it enables an extended support for postfix virtual domains. all this can also be achieved by manually adding some aliases in postfix's /etc/aliases manually, but why not manage all of the following automagically: 1. ================================= enable one and the same list on all configured virtual domains (e.g. gurus@...) create a list: "all_virtualdomains.gurus" this will lead to an alias stanza in the virtual-mailman map: # STANZA START: all_virtualdomains.gurus # CREATED: Fri Jan 21 22:00:02 2005 gurus@dom1.com all_virtualdomains.gurus gurus@dom2.com all_virtualdomains.gurus gurus@dom3.org all_virtualdomains.gurus gurus-admin@dom1.com all_virtualdomains.gurus-admin gurus-admin@dom2.com all_virtualdomains.gurus-admin gurus-admin@dom3.org all_virtualdomains.gurus-admin gurus-bounces@dom1.com all_virtualdomains.gurus-bounces gurus-bounces@dom2.com all_virtualdomains.gurus-bounces gurus-bounces@dom3.org all_virtualdomains.gurus-bounces gurus-confirm@dom1.com all_virtualdomains.gurus-confirm gurus-confirm@dom2.com all_virtualdomains.gurus-confirm gurus-confirm@dom3.org all_virtualdomains.gurus-confirm gurus-join@dom1.com all_virtualdomains.gurus-join gurus-join@dom2.com all_virtualdomains.gurus-join gurus-join@dom3.org all_virtualdomains.gurus-join gurus-leave@dom1.com all_virtualdomains.gurus-leave gurus-leave@dom2.com all_virtualdomains.gurus-leave gurus-leave@dom3.org all_virtualdomains.gurus-leave gurus-owner@dom1.com all_virtualdomains.gurus-owner gurus-owner@dom2.com all_virtualdomains.gurus-owner gurus-owner@dom3.org all_virtualdomains.gurus-owner gurus-request@dom1.com all_virtualdomains.gurus-request gurus-request@dom2.com all_virtualdomains.gurus-request gurus-request@dom3.org all_virtualdomains.gurus-request gurus-subscribe@dom1.com all_virtualdomains.gurus-subscribe gurus-subscribe@dom2.com all_virtualdomains.gurus-subscribe gurus-subscribe@dom3.org all_virtualdomains.gurus-subscribe gurus-unsubscribe@dom1.com all_virtualdomains.gurus-unsubscribe gurus-unsubscribe@dom2.com all_virtualdomains.gurus-unsubscribe gurus-unsubscribe@dom3.org all_virtualdomains.gurus-unsubscribe all_virtualdomains.gurus@dom1.com all_virtualdomains.gurus all_virtualdomains.gurus-admin@dom1.com all_virtualdomains.gurus-admin all_virtualdomains.gurus-bounces@dom1.com all_virtualdomains.gurus-bounces all_virtualdomains.gurus-confirm@dom1.com all_virtualdomains.gurus-confirm all_virtualdomains.gurus-join@dom1.com all_virtualdomains.gurus-join all_virtualdomains.gurus-leave@dom1.com all_virtualdomains.gurus-leave all_virtualdomains.gurus-owner@dom1.com all_virtualdomains.gurus-owner all_virtualdomains.gurus-request@dom1.com all_virtualdomains.gurus-request all_virtualdomains.gurus-subscribe@dom1.com all_virtualdomains.gurus-subscribe all_virtualdomains.gurus-unsubscribe@dom1.com all_virtualdomains.gurus-unsubscribe # STANZA END: all_virtualdomains.gurus only thing that has to be done to the list is add "gurus" to acceptable_aliases() 2. ================================= enable very common listnames like members@..., people@..., etc. on more than one domain, addressing different mailing lists on the same host. on my server i host two different aikido dojos that have different groups of members. what i did is create two lists: org.aikido1.members@aikido1.org org.aikido2.members@aikido2.org only if the front part of the listname matches the virtual_domain (in a backward fashion) then the list is treated in a special manner by PostfixVirtual.py: # STANZA START: org.aikido1.members # CREATED: Fri Jan 21 22:00:02 2005 members@aikido1.org org.aikido1.members members-admin@aikido1.org org.aikido1.members-admin members-bounces@aikido1.org org.aikido1.members-bounces members-confirm@aikido1.org org.aikido1.members-confirm members-join@aikido1.org org.aikido1.members-join members-leave@aikido1.org org.aikido1.members-leave members-owner@aikido1.org org.aikido1.members-owner members-request@aikido1.org org.aikido1.members-request members-subscribe@aikido1.org org.aikido1.members-subscribe members-unsubscribe@aikido1.org org.aikido1.members-unsubscribe org.aikido1.members@aikido1.org org.aikido1.members org.aikido1.members-admin@aikido1.org org.aikido1.members-admin org.aikido1.members-bounces@aikido1.org org.aikido1.members-bounces org.aikido1.members-confirm@aikido1.org org.aikido1.members-confirm org.aikido1.members-join@aikido1.org org.aikido1.members-join org.aikido1.members-leave@aikido1.org org.aikido1.members-leave org.aikido1.members-owner@aikido1.org org.aikido1.members-owner org.aikido1.members-request@aikido1.org org.aikido1.members-request org.aikido1.members-subscribe@aikido1.org org.aikido1.members-subscribe org.aikido1.members-unsubscribe@aikido1.org org.aikido1.members-unsubscribe # STANZA END: org.aikido1.members again, you have to add the alias in acceptable_aliases() ("members@aikido1.org") i am not sure, if this kind of functionality might be interesting to you. i find it quite handy and appreciate it in my very own special mailman setup. the PostfixVirtual.py code (orginally taken from Postfix.py in mailman 2.1.5 (Debian Sarge)) can be downloaded from here: http://www.ecology.uni-kiel.de/~mgabriel/downloads/PostfixVirtual.py looking forward to any resonance, mike gabriel -- network administration, ecology centre, kiel university, germany Mike Gabriel, olshausenstr 75, 24118 kiel, germany fon-work: +49 431 880-1186 fon-home: +49 431 6474196 mail: mgabriel@ecology.uni-kiel.de www: http://www.ecology.uni-kiel.de, http://zope.ecology.uni-kiel.de -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-developers/attachments/20050121/5b32eadd/attachment-0001.pgp From jwblist at olympus.net Sat Jan 22 05:58:40 2005 From: jwblist at olympus.net (John W. Baxter) Date: Sat Jan 22 05:58:52 2005 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] What would send to bare administrator In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 1/21/2005 14:06, "Mark Sapiro" wrote: > John W. Baxter wrote: >> >> A quick grep in the source didn't reveal a case where Mailman attempts to >> send mail to the unqualified recipient . Does anyone happen >> to know where it is? > > I don't know, but is it possible that 'owner' or 'moderator' for some > list - maybe the site (mailman) list - is set to 'administrator'? The smtp-failure entry matches a post log entry (with 1 failure) exactly in time. The mailing list to which a message was posted does not now contain the word administrator in the results of bin/dumpdb lists/rose-movies/config.pck | grep -3 administrator Same is true for .../config.pck.last, which is not at all surprising (the list is large enough to have frequent changes). I'll ask the list administrator (long-time friend) whether she remembers putting "administrator" into the list as member or as a list "official." The list is a weekly announce-only list (soon to be monthly). This week's instance of the failure does not repeat prior failures (the two most recent prior failures were in a different list, back in November and had an obvious cause). I'll watch the results of next week's posting. --John From mgabriel at ecology.uni-kiel.de Sat Jan 22 10:17:57 2005 From: mgabriel at ecology.uni-kiel.de (Mike Gabriel) Date: Sat Jan 22 10:18:06 2005 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Postfix.py extension for virtual_domain management In-Reply-To: <200501212333.44151.mgabriel@ecology.uni-kiel.de> References: <200501212333.44151.mgabriel@ecology.uni-kiel.de> Message-ID: <200501221018.02048.mgabriel@ecology.uni-kiel.de> hi there, > the PostfixVirtual.py code (orginally taken from Postfix.py in mailman > 2.1.5 (Debian Sarge)) can be downloaded from here: > > http://www.ecology.uni-kiel.de/~mgabriel/downloads/PostfixVirtual.py > i have just checked the downloadability ofthe above file and discovered faulty file permissions. fixed. cheers, mike -- network administration, ecology centre, kiel university, germany Mike Gabriel, olshausenstr 75, 24118 kiel, germany fon-work: +49 431 880-1186 fon-home: +49 431 6474196 mail: mgabriel@ecology.uni-kiel.de www: http://www.ecology.uni-kiel.de, http://zope.ecology.uni-kiel.de -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-developers/attachments/20050122/1969a6fa/attachment.pgp From lists05 at equinephotoart.com Sat Jan 22 21:44:56 2005 From: lists05 at equinephotoart.com (JC Dill) Date: Sat Jan 22 21:51:39 2005 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Your pending subscription request to mailman-developers - more info needed, please reply ASAP (second request) Message-ID: <41F2BB48.2090603@equinephotoart.com> Hello, We have set the mailman-developers list to require list admin approval for membership requests because of a recent problem with some people subscribing to this list and then posting messages that belong elsewhere. Can you please share with us your background with mailman and your purpose for subscribing to the developers list so we can approve your membership request? Thanks! This is our second request. If we don't get a response from you within 4 days your subscription request will be rejected. jc From lists05 at equinephotoart.com Sat Jan 22 21:45:42 2005 From: lists05 at equinephotoart.com (JC Dill) Date: Sat Jan 22 21:52:25 2005 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Your pending subscription request to mailman-developers - more info needed, please reply ASAP Message-ID: <41F2BB76.5000704@equinephotoart.com> Hello, We have set the mailman-developers list to require list admin approval for membership requests because of a recent problem with some people subscribing to this list and then posting messages that belong elsewhere. Can you please share with us your background with mailman and your purpose for subscribing to the developers list so we can approve your membership request? Thanks! This is our second request. If we don't get a response from you within 4 days your subscription request will be rejected. jc From lists05 at equinephotoart.com Sat Jan 22 22:45:13 2005 From: lists05 at equinephotoart.com (JC Dill) Date: Sat Jan 22 22:45:16 2005 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Your pending subscription request to mailman-developers - more info needed, please reply ASAP In-Reply-To: <41F2BB76.5000704@equinephotoart.com> References: <41F2BB76.5000704@equinephotoart.com> Message-ID: <41F2C969.8080304@equinephotoart.com> oops. Apologies for typo-ing the cc on these emails. jc From jwt at onjapan.net Sun Jan 23 05:17:53 2005 From: jwt at onjapan.net (Jim Tittsler) Date: Sun Jan 23 05:17:35 2005 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] changeMemberAddress() preserving neither nomail nor topics Message-ID: "pointer-gaim" mentioned on IRC that bin/clone_member was not copying the nomail flag to the newly cloned member. It looks like OldStyleMemberships's changeMemberAddress() was preserving neither nomail (now that simply copying the user's flags is not enough) nor any topics the original member was subscribed to. I've submitted a patch for one way that can be fixed. -- Jim Tittsler http://www.OnJapan.net/ GPG: 0x01159DB6 Python Starship http://Starship.Python.net/ Ringo MUG Tokyo http://www.ringo.net/rss.html From seanv at iprimus.com.au Sun Jan 23 05:23:07 2005 From: seanv at iprimus.com.au (Sean Vickery) Date: Sun Jan 23 05:23:09 2005 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Long question: list management library? Message-ID: <41F326AB.7020704@iprimus.com.au> Dear Mailman developers, By way of introducing myself, I'm a small-time programmer and former Unix systems engineer. I used to focus on email systems (Sendmail & majordomo), web (Netscape & Apache), DNS (BIND), usenet news, etc. I intend to development an announcement-subscription and management system for the Queensland Peace Network , a community organisation I do IT work for. I envisage a system more sophisticated than a simple mailing list to satisfy the peculiar needs of our organisation and potential subscribers. Would anyone here have some information on email lists management libraries that they could provide me? I'm interested in libraries (freeware or commercial) that do all or some of the following: - User subscription and unsubscription requests - Subscriber web interface to change options (I'd be extending this heavily .. I hope this will be the essence of my project) - Sending emails to subscribers and handling the consequent bounces (RCPT ORCPT= & DSN support would be highly desireable). - VERP probing of bouncing users Clearly Mailman has some fairly sophisticated code to do all of this. How tightly coupled is that code to the rest of Mailman? Are there any 'unpackaged' libraries there might be to perform these functions? Regards, Sean Vickery. From tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp Mon Jan 24 01:28:08 2005 From: tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp (Tokio Kikuchi) Date: Mon Jan 24 01:28:29 2005 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] [Fwd: Re: [Mailman-Announce] Mailman 2.1.6 beta 1] In-Reply-To: <20050123185423.GF43576@snowcrash.tpb.net> References: <41F17463.8090405@nleaudio.com> <41F17B09.5060609@is.kochi-u.ac.jp> <20050123185423.GF43576@snowcrash.tpb.net> Message-ID: <41F44118.80900@is.kochi-u.ac.jp> Niels Bakker wrote: > > Can the default be kept the same as current behaviour? It helps with > threading by Mutt, in the absence of In-Reply-To (e.g. all mails sent > with most Outlook, MS Exchange MUAs). > Oh, Yes, I will. >>First post: >> Subject: [prefix 1] testing >>Second posted: >> Subject: Re: [prefix 1] testing >>Second delivered from mailman: >> Subject: [prefix 2] Re: testing >>Third posted: >> Subject: Re: [prefix 2] Re: tesing >>Third delivered: >> Subject: [prefix 3] Re: testing > > > You can do an in-place replacement, you do not necessarily need to bring > it forward in the Subject: line, do you? > There is also a history on this side older than mailman. ;-) -- Tokio Kikuchi, tkikuchi@ is.kochi-u.ac.jp http://weather.is.kochi-u.ac.jp/ From jwblist at olympus.net Tue Jan 25 00:26:57 2005 From: jwblist at olympus.net (John W. Baxter) Date: Tue Jan 25 00:27:09 2005 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] [Fwd: Re: [Mailman-Announce] Mailman 2.1.6 beta 1] In-Reply-To: <41F174A6.9050305@is.kochi-u.ac.jp> Message-ID: On 1/21/2005 13:31, "Tokio Kikuchi" wrote: > >>> think I can add some code before the 2.1.6 final release to exchage >>> Re: and prefix order for the subject prefix without numbering. (Yes, we >>> now have a nice feature to add numbering in the subject prefix.) >> >> >> Can you do the same for "AW" and some of the other non-English forms of >> "Re"? I'm only asking because you'll be working in the code anyhow. > > Oh yes, I'm doing this also. Are there any other like this one? ;-) I can't currently remember any other than AW. And I don't think AW will go away, RFCs or not...one program which seems to do it is X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.6353 when in a German location (or configured to act German, or something). --John From tgc at statsbiblioteket.dk Tue Jan 25 08:29:52 2005 From: tgc at statsbiblioteket.dk (Tom G. Christensen) Date: Tue Jan 25 08:29:53 2005 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] [Fwd: Re: [Mailman-Announce] Mailman 2.1.6 beta 1] In-Reply-To: <41F174A6.9050305@is.kochi-u.ac.jp> References: <41F174A6.9050305@is.kochi-u.ac.jp> Message-ID: <41F5F570.10802@statsbiblioteket.dk> Tokio Kikuchi wrote: > >>> think I can add some code before the 2.1.6 final release to exchage >>> Re: and prefix order for the subject prefix without numbering. (Yes, we >>> now have a nice feature to add numbering in the subject prefix.) >> >> >> >> Can you do the same for "AW" and some of the other non-English forms of >> "Re"? I'm only asking because you'll be working in the code anyhow. > > > Oh yes, I'm doing this also. Are there any other like this one? ;-) > Atleast Danish & Swedish language versions of certain Microsoft mail apps defaults to "SV" instead of "Re". -tgc From tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp Wed Jan 26 01:25:38 2005 From: tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp (Tokio Kikuchi) Date: Wed Jan 26 01:25:41 2005 Subject: Release Next Beta ? (was Re: [Mailman-Developers] [Fwd: Re: [Mailman-Announce] Mailman 2.1.6 beta 1]) In-Reply-To: <41F5F570.10802@statsbiblioteket.dk> References: <41F174A6.9050305@is.kochi-u.ac.jp> <41F5F570.10802@statsbiblioteket.dk> Message-ID: <41F6E382.5020503@is.kochi-u.ac.jp> Barry, I have fixed the (Re:, [prefix]) order problem and done this (AW|SV) also. Shall I cut out beta 2 tarball and release it on my site? (If you are busy and the problem in SF may not be fixed yet.) >>> Can you do the same for "AW" and some of the other non-English forms of >>> "Re"? I'm only asking because you'll be working in the code anyhow. >> Oh yes, I'm doing this also. Are there any other like this one? ;-) >> > Atleast Danish & Swedish language versions of certain Microsoft mail > apps defaults to "SV" instead of "Re". > Cheers, -- Tokio Kikuchi, tkikuchi@ is.kochi-u.ac.jp http://weather.is.kochi-u.ac.jp/ From barry at python.org Wed Jan 26 01:47:45 2005 From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw) Date: Wed Jan 26 01:47:49 2005 Subject: Release Next Beta ? (was Re: [Mailman-Developers] [Fwd: Re: [Mailman-Announce] Mailman 2.1.6 beta 1]) In-Reply-To: <41F6E382.5020503@is.kochi-u.ac.jp> References: <41F174A6.9050305@is.kochi-u.ac.jp> <41F5F570.10802@statsbiblioteket.dk> <41F6E382.5020503@is.kochi-u.ac.jp> Message-ID: <1106700465.10132.96.camel@geddy.wooz.org> On Tue, 2005-01-25 at 19:25, Tokio Kikuchi wrote: > I have fixed the (Re:, [prefix]) order problem and done this (AW|SV) > also. Shall I cut out beta 2 tarball and release it on my site? (If you > are busy and the problem in SF may not be fixed yet.) I won't have time to do anything until this weekend at the earliest. If you'd like more time to fix things :) you can wait until then, but I will leave it up to you! If you do build a new tarball and still want me to release one on SF this weekend, we'll call that one beta3 (we can go up to 15 :). -Barry -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 307 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-developers/attachments/20050125/83d1b95c/attachment.pgp From tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp Wed Jan 26 06:14:13 2005 From: tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp (Tokio Kikuchi) Date: Wed Jan 26 06:14:23 2005 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Mailman 2.1.6 beta 2 released Message-ID: <41F72725.1040604@is.kochi-u.ac.jp> Hi, I put together a tarball for Mailman 2.1.6 beta 2 and placed on my Japanese Mailman site at: http://mm.tkikuchi.net/mailman-2.1.6b2.tgz This is the second beta release of 2.1.6 which are roughly scheduled to be released by the end of February. Please grab it from above site and upgrade your mailman. Change from 2.1.6b1 are mainly subject prefix problems for Mutt (and other?) users and translation catalog template (pot) also. Here is excerpt from NEWS file: 2.1.6 (XX-XXX-200X) - Most of the installation instructions have been moved to a latex document. See admin/www/mailman-install/index.html for details. - VERP_PROBES is disabled by default. - bin/withlist can be run without a list name, but only if -i is given. Also, withlist puts the directory it's found in at the end of sys.path, making it easier to run withlist scripts that live in $prefix/bin. - bin/newlist grew two new options: -u/--urlhost and -e/--emailhost which lets the user provide the web and email hostnames for the new mailing list. This is a better way to specify the domain for the list, rather than the old 'mylist@hostname' syntax (which is still supported for backward compatibility, but deprecated). - Added the ability for Mailman generated passwords (both member and list admin) to be more cryptographically secure. See new configuration variables USER_FRIENDLY_PASSWORDS, MEMBER_PASSWORD_LENGTH, and ADMIN_PASSWORD_LENGTH. Also added a new bin/withlist script called reset_pw.py which can be used to reset all member passwords. Passwords generated by Mailman are now 8 characters by default for members, and 10 characters for list administrators. - Allow editing of the welcome message from the admin page (1085501). - A potential cross-site scripting hole in the driver script has been closed. Thanks to Florian Weimer for its discovery. Also, turn STEALTH_MODE on by default. - Chinese languages moved from 'big5' and 'gb' to 'zh_TW' and 'zh_CN' respectively for compliance to the IANA spec. Note that neither language is supported yet. - Python 2.4 compatibility issue: time.strftime() became strict about the 'day of year' range. (1078482) - New feature: automatic discards of held messages. List owners can now set how many days to hold the messages in the moderator request queue. cron/checkdb will automatically discard old messages. (790494) - Improved mail address sanity check. (1030228) - SpamDetect.py now checks attachment header. (1026977) - New feature: subject_prefix can be configured to include a sequence number which is taken from the post_id variable. Also, the prefix is always put at the start of the subject, i.e. "[list-name] Re: original subject", if mm_cfg.OLD_STYLE_PREFIXING is set No. The default style is "Re: [list-name]" if numbering is not set, for backward compatibility. If the list owner is using numbering feature by "%d" directive, the new style, "[list-name 123] Re:", is always used. - List owners can now use Scrubber to get the attachments scrubbed (held in the web archive), if the site admin permits it in mm_cfg.py. New variables introduced are SCRUBBER_DONT_USE_ATTACHMENT_FILENAME and SCRUBBER_USE_ATTACHMENT_FILENAME_EXTENSION in Defaults.py for scrubber behavior. (904850) - Filter attachments by filename extensions. (1027882) - Bugs and patches: 955381 (older Python compatibility), 1020102/1013079/ 1020013 (fix spam filter removed), 665569 (newer Postfix bounce detection), 970383 (moderator -1 admin requests pending), 873035 (subject handling in -request mail), 799166/946554 (makefile compatibility), 872068 (add header/footer via unicode), 1032434 (KNOWN_SPAMMERS check for multi-header), 1025372 (empty Cc:), 789015 (fix pipermail URL), 948152 (Out of date link on Docs), 1099138 (Scrubber.py breaks on None part), 1099840/1099840 (deprecated % insertion), 880073/933762 (List-ID RFC compliance), 1090439 (passwd reminder shunted), -- Tokio Kikuchi, tkikuchi@ is.kochi-u.ac.jp http://weather.is.kochi-u.ac.jp/ From alan at batie.org Wed Jan 26 07:32:06 2005 From: alan at batie.org (Alan Batie) Date: Wed Jan 26 07:31:42 2005 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Mailman 2.1.6 beta 2 released In-Reply-To: <41F72725.1040604@is.kochi-u.ac.jp> References: <41F72725.1040604@is.kochi-u.ac.jp> Message-ID: <41F73966.1010205@batie.org> Tokio Kikuchi wrote: > - Most of the installation instructions have been moved to a latex > document. See admin/www/mailman-install/index.html for details. This is *not* a positive move. Installation instructions should be in a flat text document, unless you're installing it from a web browser or word processor. I install most software from a shell, and want to be able to see what I'm doing without having to install the instructions on a web server somewhere, or copying them over to my workstation where the web browser can get at them locally, or installing lynx so I can read them when less is easier to move around with. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/x-pkcs7-signature Size: 3196 bytes Desc: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature Url : http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-developers/attachments/20050125/0c4bf4f5/smime.bin From slave at codegrunt.com Wed Jan 26 07:51:45 2005 From: slave at codegrunt.com (Ron Brogden) Date: Wed Jan 26 07:51:48 2005 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Mailman 2.1.6 beta 2 released In-Reply-To: <41F73966.1010205@batie.org> References: <41F72725.1040604@is.kochi-u.ac.jp> <41F73966.1010205@batie.org> Message-ID: <200501252251.45177.slave@codegrunt.com> On Tuesday 25 January 2005 22:32, Alan Batie wrote: > This is *not* a positive move. I 100% agree. Since Mailman is designed to be installed from the shell (and certain commands run from the shell) and since a web / mail server likely is not going to have a GUI installed on it, the docs should be in plain text. Cheers -- CODEgrunt slave@codegrunt.com / http://codegrunt.com From alan at batie.org Wed Jan 26 08:03:51 2005 From: alan at batie.org (Alan Batie) Date: Wed Jan 26 08:03:24 2005 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Mailman 2.1.6 beta 2 released In-Reply-To: <41F73966.1010205@batie.org> References: <41F72725.1040604@is.kochi-u.ac.jp> <41F73966.1010205@batie.org> Message-ID: <41F740D7.8050606@batie.org> Alan Batie wrote: > I install most software from a shell, and want to be > able to see what I'm doing without having to install the instructions on > a web server somewhere I will take this back *slightly* in the case of mailman: since it's designed to work with a webserver, you're obviously installing it where the docs are actually viewable (at least if they're html, does anyone actually use latex anymore?), but I still want to simply be able to "tar xzvf" then "less INSTALL" whatever I'm installing. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/x-pkcs7-signature Size: 3196 bytes Desc: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature Url : http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-developers/attachments/20050125/9cab3d43/smime.bin From tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp Wed Jan 26 08:12:26 2005 From: tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp (Tokio Kikuchi) Date: Wed Jan 26 08:12:33 2005 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Mailman 2.1.6 beta 2 released In-Reply-To: <41F73966.1010205@batie.org> References: <41F72725.1040604@is.kochi-u.ac.jp> <41F73966.1010205@batie.org> Message-ID: <41F742DA.6040005@is.kochi-u.ac.jp> Alan Batie wrote: > Tokio Kikuchi wrote: > >> - Most of the installation instructions have been moved to a latex >> document. See admin/www/mailman-install/index.html for details. > > > This is *not* a positive move. Installation instructions should be in a > flat text document, unless you're installing it from a web browser or > word processor. I install most software from a shell, and want to be > able to see what I'm doing without having to install the instructions on > a web server somewhere, or copying them over to my workstation where the > web browser can get at them locally, or installing lynx so I can read > them when less is easier to move around with. > OK, we should add like this: '(Or, the plain text version, admin/www/mailman-install.txt.)' Others may be convenient pointing their browsers at: http://www.list.org/mailman-install/index.html -- Tokio Kikuchi, tkikuchi@ is.kochi-u.ac.jp http://weather.is.kochi-u.ac.jp/ From stephen at xemacs.org Wed Jan 26 12:39:01 2005 From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull) Date: Wed Jan 26 12:39:14 2005 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Mailman 2.1.6 beta 2 released In-Reply-To: <41F73966.1010205@batie.org> (Alan Batie's message of "Tue, 25 Jan 2005 22:32:06 -0800") References: <41F72725.1040604@is.kochi-u.ac.jp> <41F73966.1010205@batie.org> Message-ID: <87zmyw1ktm.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> >>>>> "Alan" == Alan Batie writes: Alan> Tokio Kikuchi wrote: >> - Most of the installation instructions have been moved to a >> latex document. See admin/www/mailman-install/index.html for >> details. Alan> This is *not* a positive move. Installation instructions Alan> should be in a flat text document I have to agree. Doesn't it make more sense to move to something like reStructuredText if you need to produce somewhat nice-looking web or printed documents without much effort? -- Institute of Policy and Planning Sciences http://turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp University of Tsukuba Tennodai 1-1-1 Tsukuba 305-8573 JAPAN Ask not how you can "do" free software business; ask what your business can "do for" free software. From bob at nleaudio.com Wed Jan 26 14:36:55 2005 From: bob at nleaudio.com (Bob Puff) Date: Wed Jan 26 14:37:06 2005 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Mailman 2.1.6 beta 2 released In-Reply-To: <87zmyw1ktm.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> References: <41F72725.1040604@is.kochi-u.ac.jp> <41F73966.1010205@batie.org> <87zmyw1ktm.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> Message-ID: <20050126133531.M89703@nleaudio.com> I third the motion. I hate it when the docs for something are in something other than plain text. I rarely am logged in with a gui - always a terminal mode, and even html can get goofy. Bob ---------- Original Message ----------- From: "Stephen J. Turnbull" To: Alan Batie Cc: mailman-developers@python.org Sent: Wed, 26 Jan 2005 20:39:01 +0900 Subject: Re: [Mailman-Developers] Mailman 2.1.6 beta 2 released > >>>>> "Alan" == Alan Batie writes: > > Alan> Tokio Kikuchi wrote: > > >> - Most of the installation instructions have been moved to a > >> latex document. See admin/www/mailman-install/index.html for > >> details. > > Alan> This is *not* a positive move. Installation instructions > Alan> should be in a flat text document > > I have to agree. Doesn't it make more sense to move to something > like reStructuredText if you need to produce somewhat nice-looking > web or printed documents without much effort? > > -- > Institute of Policy and Planning Sciences http://turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp > University of Tsukuba Tennodai 1-1-1 Tsukuba 305- > 8573 JAPAN Ask not how you can "do" free software business; > ask what your business can "do for" free software. > _______________________________________________ > Mailman-Developers mailing list > Mailman-Developers@python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers > Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-developers/bob%40nleaudio.com ------- End of Original Message ------- From iane at sussex.ac.uk Wed Jan 26 16:57:33 2005 From: iane at sussex.ac.uk (Ian Eiloart) Date: Wed Jan 26 16:57:34 2005 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Mailman 2.1.6 beta 2 released In-Reply-To: <20050126133531.M89703@nleaudio.com> References: <41F72725.1040604@is.kochi-u.ac.jp> <41F73966.1010205@batie.org> <87zmyw1ktm.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <20050126133531.M89703@nleaudio.com> Message-ID: <83ECBA3D6841B9A55F51CDE0@lewes.staff.uscs.susx.ac.uk> --On January 26, 2005 08:36:55 -0500 Bob Puff wrote: > I third the motion. I hate it when the docs for something are in > something other than plain text. I rarely am logged in with a gui - > always a terminal mode, and even html can get goofy. > > Bob I fourth it. I don't even know if I have anything that can read latex format documents. Well, I guess I probably do, but I don't want to go digging it out all the time. My preferences are for plain text and perhaps MAN pages with the distribution, and HTML on the web. -- Ian Eiloart Servers Team Sussex University ITS From barry at python.org Wed Jan 26 17:07:25 2005 From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw) Date: Wed Jan 26 17:07:30 2005 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Mailman 2.1.6 beta 2 released In-Reply-To: <41F73966.1010205@batie.org> References: <41F72725.1040604@is.kochi-u.ac.jp> <41F73966.1010205@batie.org> Message-ID: <1106755645.9871.45.camel@geddy.wooz.org> On Wed, 2005-01-26 at 01:32, Alan Batie wrote: > Tokio Kikuchi wrote: > > > - Most of the installation instructions have been moved to a latex > > document. See admin/www/mailman-install/index.html for details. > > This is *not* a positive move. Installation instructions should be in a flat > text document, unless you're installing it from a web browser or word processor. > I install most software from a shell, and want to be able to see what I'm > doing without having to install the instructions on a web server somewhere, or > copying them over to my workstation where the web browser can get at them > locally, or installing lynx so I can read them when less is easier to move > around with. Don't fret, for the final release we'll include a PDF and a plain text version of the installation documentation. But this re-org is way better than the scads of READMEs. -Barry -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 307 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-developers/attachments/20050126/af8652d1/attachment.pgp From barry at python.org Wed Jan 26 17:10:31 2005 From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw) Date: Wed Jan 26 17:10:36 2005 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Mailman 2.1.6 beta 2 released In-Reply-To: <87zmyw1ktm.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> References: <41F72725.1040604@is.kochi-u.ac.jp> <41F73966.1010205@batie.org> <87zmyw1ktm.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> Message-ID: <1106755831.9875.48.camel@geddy.wooz.org> On Wed, 2005-01-26 at 06:39, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: > I have to agree. Doesn't it make more sense to move to something like > reStructuredText if you need to produce somewhat nice-looking web or > printed documents without much effort? I think the doc source doesn't make much of a difference, and I like the mkhowto scripts that come with Python. They can easily take latex and produce HTML, PDF, and plaintext. I don't think the reST tools are quite there yet. -Barry -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 307 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-developers/attachments/20050126/d406ff6f/attachment.pgp From claw at kanga.nu Wed Jan 26 22:18:28 2005 From: claw at kanga.nu (J C Lawrence) Date: Wed Jan 26 22:18:43 2005 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Mailman 2.1.6 beta 2 released In-Reply-To: Message from Alan Batie of "Tue, 25 Jan 2005 22:32:06 PST." <41F73966.1010205@batie.org> References: <41F72725.1040604@is.kochi-u.ac.jp> <41F73966.1010205@batie.org> Message-ID: <31759.1106774308@kanga.nu> On Tue, 25 Jan 2005 22:32:06 -0800 Alan Batie wrote: > Tokio Kikuchi wrote: >> - Most of the installation instructions have been moved to a latex >> document. See admin/www/mailman-install/index.html for details. > This is *not* a positive move. I'll mildly disagree if the installation ball includes either - a text or HTML version of the same data (easy enough produce via standard TeX commands) - a Makefile which runs the appropriate tetex commands to produce either of the above -- J C Lawrence ---------(*) Satan, oscillate my metallic sonatas. claw@kanga.nu He lived as a devil, eh? http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/ Evil is a name of a foeman, as I live. From claw at kanga.nu Wed Jan 26 22:50:13 2005 From: claw at kanga.nu (J C Lawrence) Date: Wed Jan 26 22:50:16 2005 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Mailman 2.1.6 beta 2 released In-Reply-To: Message from Alan Batie of "Tue, 25 Jan 2005 23:03:51 PST." <41F740D7.8050606@batie.org> References: <41F72725.1040604@is.kochi-u.ac.jp> <41F73966.1010205@batie.org> <41F740D7.8050606@batie.org> Message-ID: <680.1106776213@kanga.nu> On Tue, 25 Jan 2005 23:03:51 -0800 Alan Batie wrote: > I will take this back *slightly* in the case of mailman: since it's > designed to work with a webserver, you're obviously installing it > where the docs are actually viewable (at least if they're html, does > anyone actually use latex anymore?)... I do all of my documentation, letters, book writing, articles etc in LaTeX. Tis may not be statistically significant. > ... but I still want to simply be able to "tar xzvf" then "less > INSTALL" whatever I'm installing. Do note that LaTeX and TeX is a plain text format and is quite human readable, even more so than say [nrt]roff. -- J C Lawrence ---------(*) Satan, oscillate my metallic sonatas. claw@kanga.nu He lived as a devil, eh? http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/ Evil is a name of a foeman, as I live. From tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp Thu Jan 27 01:12:06 2005 From: tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp (Tokio Kikuchi) Date: Thu Jan 27 01:12:11 2005 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Mailman 2.1.6 beta 2 released In-Reply-To: <83ECBA3D6841B9A55F51CDE0@lewes.staff.uscs.susx.ac.uk> References: <41F72725.1040604@is.kochi-u.ac.jp> <87zmyw1ktm.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <20050126133531.M89703@nleaudio.com> <83ECBA3D6841B9A55F51CDE0@lewes.staff.uscs.susx.ac.uk> Message-ID: <41F831D6.1050903@is.kochi-u.ac.jp> Hi, Before some one 'fifth' this, I should say: The plain text version mailman-install is already in the tar ball -- admin/www/mailman-install.txt. What is missing is the pointer. Ian Eiloart wrote: > > > --On January 26, 2005 08:36:55 -0500 Bob Puff wrote: > >> I third the motion. I hate it when the docs for something are in >> something other than plain text. I rarely am logged in with a gui - >> always a terminal mode, and even html can get goofy. >> >> Bob > > > I fourth it. I don't even know if I have anything that can read latex > format documents. Well, I guess I probably do, but I don't want to go > digging it out all the time. My preferences are for plain text and > perhaps MAN pages with the distribution, and HTML on the web. > > -- Tokio Kikuchi, tkikuchi@ is.kochi-u.ac.jp http://weather.is.kochi-u.ac.jp/ From terri at zone12.com Thu Jan 27 06:39:04 2005 From: terri at zone12.com (Terri Oda) Date: Thu Jan 27 06:38:13 2005 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Mailman 2.1.6 beta 2 released In-Reply-To: <1106755831.9875.48.camel@geddy.wooz.org> References: <41F72725.1040604@is.kochi-u.ac.jp> <41F73966.1010205@batie.org> <87zmyw1ktm.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <1106755831.9875.48.camel@geddy.wooz.org> Message-ID: On Jan 26, 2005, at 11:10 AM, Barry Warsaw wrote: > On Wed, 2005-01-26 at 06:39, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: > >> I have to agree. Doesn't it make more sense to move to something like >> reStructuredText if you need to produce somewhat nice-looking web or >> printed documents without much effort? > > I think the doc source doesn't make much of a difference, and I like > the > mkhowto scripts that come with Python. They can easily take latex and > produce HTML, PDF, and plaintext. I don't think the reST tools are > quite there yet. As probably one of few people here who's spent any time using the mkhowto scripts, I'm with Barry. They're pretty decent, make fairly nice output in several different formats, and are easily available to people who already have python set up. AND I think since we already have a decent chunk of documentation in this formats, it makes sense to keep our documentation in this format rather than having a mess of other tools about. Related: I get mail from people who've printed out the mailman documents, so the more nicely formatted stuff is getting used... and appreciated! As long as the plan is to have some nice plaintext documents in the root when we do the actual release, this seems good to me. Terri PS - Tokio: I've got a pile of patches for the in-line documentation of the stuff in bin/ that I need to double-check and submit. Will there be any problem if I check them in now? I can wait if it makes your life easier. From alan at batie.org Thu Jan 27 06:39:55 2005 From: alan at batie.org (Alan Batie) Date: Thu Jan 27 06:40:22 2005 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Mailman 2.1.6 beta 2 released In-Reply-To: <680.1106776213@kanga.nu> References: <41F72725.1040604@is.kochi-u.ac.jp> <41F73966.1010205@batie.org> <41F740D7.8050606@batie.org> <680.1106776213@kanga.nu> Message-ID: <41F87EAB.5070408@batie.org> J C Lawrence wrote: > Do note that LaTeX and TeX is a plain text format and is quite human > readable, even more so than say [nrt]roff. For some definition of "readable" ;-) though I would probably agree that it's moreso than *roff. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/x-pkcs7-signature Size: 3196 bytes Desc: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature Url : http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-developers/attachments/20050126/b8a38afd/smime-0001.bin From tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp Thu Jan 27 06:55:19 2005 From: tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp (Tokio Kikuchi) Date: Thu Jan 27 06:55:24 2005 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Mailman 2.1.6 beta 2 released In-Reply-To: References: <41F72725.1040604@is.kochi-u.ac.jp> <41F73966.1010205@batie.org> <87zmyw1ktm.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <1106755831.9875.48.camel@geddy.wooz.org> Message-ID: <41F88247.9090801@is.kochi-u.ac.jp> > PS - Tokio: I've got a pile of patches for the in-line documentation of > the stuff in bin/ that I need to double-check and submit. Will there be > any problem if I check them in now? I can wait if it makes your life > easier. No problem! Thanks. -- Tokio Kikuchi, tkikuchi@ is.kochi-u.ac.jp http://weather.is.kochi-u.ac.jp/ From sub1.dev.mailman at msquared.id.au Thu Jan 27 07:13:14 2005 From: sub1.dev.mailman at msquared.id.au (Msquared) Date: Thu Jan 27 07:13:20 2005 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Mailman 2.1.6 beta 2 released In-Reply-To: <31759.1106774308@kanga.nu> References: <41F72725.1040604@is.kochi-u.ac.jp> <41F73966.1010205@batie.org> <31759.1106774308@kanga.nu> Message-ID: <20050127061314.GX8804@sliderule.msquared.com.au> On Wed, Jan 26, 2005 at 01:18:28PM -0800, J C Lawrence wrote: > >> - Most of the installation instructions have been moved to a latex > >> document. See admin/www/mailman-install/index.html for details. > > > This is *not* a positive move. > > I'll mildly disagree if the installation ball includes either > > - a text or HTML version of the same data (easy enough produce via > standard TeX commands) > > - a Makefile which runs the appropriate tetex commands to produce > either of the above Admittedly worst-case scenario, but if you're in someone's machine room installing this because they're so paranoid that they won't let you shell in (even ssh), then the machine may also not have enough build environment on it to convert the HTML or latex to text. If it's "so easy" to convert it, then it should be done when packaging, not when extracting. You know (and can control) what your packaging environment is, but there will be so many different extraction/installation environments that I think the best bet is to target the least common denominator for the install document itself: plain text. Regards, Msquared... From barry at python.org Thu Jan 27 19:10:01 2005 From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw) Date: Thu Jan 27 19:10:49 2005 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] [Fwd: Mailman tutorial] Message-ID: <1106849401.22034.62.camel@geddy.wooz.org> Skipped content of type multipart/mixed-------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 307 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-developers/attachments/20050127/43f7d6bc/attachment.pgp From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org Thu Jan 27 19:59:41 2005 From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles) Date: Thu Jan 27 20:02:11 2005 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] [Fwd: Mailman tutorial] In-Reply-To: <1106849401.22034.62.camel@geddy.wooz.org> References: <1106849401.22034.62.camel@geddy.wooz.org> Message-ID: At 1:10 PM -0500 2005-01-27, Barry Warsaw wrote: > Jack Jansen sent the following message to me, but I will not be able to > attend. I still think it would be a great idea though, and Jack said it > would be okay to forward this message to this mailing list to see if > anybody else would be willing to sign up for giving a Mailman tutorial > at this conference. Note that I have submitted an invited talk proposal for this conference, and while I haven't heard the official word yet, I have gotten some initial feedback that they are positively inclined towards accepting. Under normal circumstances, I would be fine with also doing a tutorial on a related package (such as Mailman), but I'm also in the process of writing a book, I think I'm about to accept a propsal from Rob Kolstad to start writing a column for _;login:_ magazine (the official publication of the USENIX Association), and my wife and I are preparing to move back to the US this year. Given the short fuse, I don't think I could do it this time. Now, if someone else has already developed Mailman tutorial material, I'd be happy to be the one to present that. I got contacted back in December about doing an invited talk proposal for this conference. While I did give them a number of other names of people that I thought might be interested/willing/able to give an invited talk at this conference, I didn't think about anyone related to Mailman. For that, I am deeply sorry. I should have thought of you folks and given you much more warning. -- Brad Knowles, "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755 SAGE member since 1995. See for more info. From jarrell at vt.edu Thu Jan 27 20:07:58 2005 From: jarrell at vt.edu (Ron Jarrell) Date: Thu Jan 27 20:30:17 2005 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Mailman 2.1.6 beta 2 released In-Reply-To: <20050127061314.GX8804@sliderule.msquared.com.au> References: <41F72725.1040604@is.kochi-u.ac.jp> <41F73966.1010205@batie.org> <31759.1106774308@kanga.nu> <20050127061314.GX8804@sliderule.msquared.com.au> Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.2.20050127140638.04f09c50@lennier.cc.vt.edu> So, because I updated from cvs a long time ago, then got distracted (becoming management makes it difficult to be useful sometimes, ya know?) I'm running 2.2a0... How much of a pain will "downgrading" to 2.1.6b2 be? I know update is gonna pitch a fit, but will it do the right thing? From barry at python.org Thu Jan 27 22:22:08 2005 From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw) Date: Thu Jan 27 22:22:18 2005 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Mailman 2.1.6 beta 2 released In-Reply-To: <6.1.2.0.2.20050127140638.04f09c50@lennier.cc.vt.edu> References: <41F72725.1040604@is.kochi-u.ac.jp> <41F73966.1010205@batie.org> <31759.1106774308@kanga.nu> <20050127061314.GX8804@sliderule.msquared.com.au> <6.1.2.0.2.20050127140638.04f09c50@lennier.cc.vt.edu> Message-ID: <1106860928.22039.80.camel@geddy.wooz.org> On Thu, 2005-01-27 at 14:07, Ron Jarrell wrote: > So, because I updated from cvs a long time ago, then got distracted > (becoming management makes it difficult to be useful sometimes, ya > know?) I'm running 2.2a0... How much of a pain will "downgrading" to > 2.1.6b2 be? I know update is gonna pitch a fit, but will it do the > right thing? Probably, because what lives on the head is really older than what lives on the branch. Make backups. :) -Barry -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 307 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-developers/attachments/20050127/2ca8a6a6/attachment.pgp From thien.vu at gmail.com Fri Jan 28 06:00:35 2005 From: thien.vu at gmail.com (Thien Vu) Date: Fri Jan 28 06:00:39 2005 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] SMTPDirect timeout In-Reply-To: <9f7fa0005012613244c4a66a@mail.gmail.com> References: <9f7fa0005012613244c4a66a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <9f7fa0005012721003b51cb50@mail.gmail.com> We recently experienced a problem with our smtp delivery where the connection is lost to the SMTPHOST which caused all the OutgoingRunners to lock up. There is no connection reset or anything so the connection appears to be ESTABLISTED and it just sits there. Eventually all OutgoingRunners are consumed in this state. The only reference I see to something similar to this happening is at: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-developers@python.org/msg07442.html The patch I've attached is a simple alarm around the SMTPDirect.py call into smtplib to terminate the connection after a configurable amount of time. Right now I have it set to minutes(10) but it's completely configurable via mm_cfg.py Any thoughts about this? Thien -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: mailman-smtpdirect-timeout.diff Type: application/octet-stream Size: 0 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-developers/attachments/20050127/83886649/mailman-smtpdirect-timeout.obj From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org Fri Jan 28 11:01:30 2005 From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles) Date: Fri Jan 28 11:03:39 2005 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] SMTPDirect timeout In-Reply-To: <9f7fa0005012721003b51cb50@mail.gmail.com> References: <9f7fa0005012613244c4a66a@mail.gmail.com> <9f7fa0005012721003b51cb50@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: At 9:00 PM -0800 2005-01-27, Thien Vu wrote: > The patch I've attached is a simple alarm around the SMTPDirect.py > call into smtplib to terminate the connection after a configurable > amount of time. Right now I have it set to minutes(10) but it's > completely configurable via mm_cfg.py That's very weird. The MTA should be dropping those connections after five minutes of idle time (I think that's the recommended value). Obviously, in your case the MTA is not doing this, so the client should definitely be protecting itself against being hung indefinitely. -- Brad Knowles, "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755 SAGE member since 1995. See for more info. From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org Fri Jan 28 11:11:35 2005 From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles) Date: Fri Jan 28 11:11:47 2005 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Admin-controlled rejection text... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: At 9:08 AM +0100 2005-01-21, Brad Knowles wrote: >> The _() method both replaces this text with the appropriate language >> translation if the current language is not English and does the %()s >> substitutions. >> >> Your member_moderation_notice text isn't being processed in this way. > > Aha! Okay, I'll try wrapping that call in _() and see if that helps. Indeed, this solved the problem. I have since created a patch and uploaded that to . I'd appreciate it if people would take a look at this patch and give me feedback as to whether or not this looks useful. In particular, I'd like to get this (or something like it) incorporated into an upcoming version of 2.1.6 and into the version of Mailman that we're running on python.org. This will allow us to present a more friendly face to the non-subscribers who try to post to the mailman-developers and mailman-users mailing lists, among others. -- Brad Knowles, "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755 SAGE member since 1995. See for more info. From barry at python.org Fri Jan 28 15:32:18 2005 From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw) Date: Fri Jan 28 15:32:20 2005 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] [Fwd: Mailman tutorial] In-Reply-To: References: <1106849401.22034.62.camel@geddy.wooz.org> Message-ID: <1106922738.8664.42.camel@presto.wooz.org> On Thu, 2005-01-27 at 13:59, Brad Knowles wrote: > Note that I have submitted an invited talk proposal for this > conference, and while I haven't heard the official word yet, I have > gotten some initial feedback that they are positively inclined > towards accepting. > > Under normal circumstances, I would be fine with also doing a > tutorial on a related package (such as Mailman), but I'm also in the > process of writing a book, I think I'm about to accept a propsal from > Rob Kolstad to start writing a column for _;login:_ magazine (the > official publication of the USENIX Association), and my wife and I > are preparing to move back to the US this year. Given the short > fuse, I don't think I could do it this time. No worries. -Barry -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 307 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-developers/attachments/20050128/2c8e1c5e/attachment.pgp From thien.vu at gmail.com Fri Jan 28 18:18:31 2005 From: thien.vu at gmail.com (Thien Vu) Date: Fri Jan 28 18:18:34 2005 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] SMTPDirect timeout In-Reply-To: References: <9f7fa0005012613244c4a66a@mail.gmail.com> <9f7fa0005012721003b51cb50@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <9f7fa000501280918402df66@mail.gmail.com> It should but the MTA we're connecting to is a load balancer, and this is a known issue with our load balancer vendor (the backend goes down but the load balancer doesn't terminate the connection), but this could happen for a variety of other reasons. I chose to do this rather than SO_KEEPALIVE because the socket interface isn't really exposed through the smtplib module. Thien On Fri, 28 Jan 2005 11:01:30 +0100, Brad Knowles wrote: > At 9:00 PM -0800 2005-01-27, Thien Vu wrote: > > > The patch I've attached is a simple alarm around the SMTPDirect.py > > call into smtplib to terminate the connection after a configurable > > amount of time. Right now I have it set to minutes(10) but it's > > completely configurable via mm_cfg.py > > That's very weird. The MTA should be dropping those connections > after five minutes of idle time (I think that's the recommended > value). Obviously, in your case the MTA is not doing this, so the > client should definitely be protecting itself against being hung > indefinitely. > > -- > Brad Knowles, > > "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little > temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." > > -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania > Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755 > > SAGE member since 1995. See for more info. > From thien.vu at gmail.com Fri Jan 28 18:21:03 2005 From: thien.vu at gmail.com (Thien Vu) Date: Fri Jan 28 18:21:06 2005 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] SMTPDirect timeout In-Reply-To: <9f7fa000501280918402df66@mail.gmail.com> References: <9f7fa0005012613244c4a66a@mail.gmail.com> <9f7fa0005012721003b51cb50@mail.gmail.com> <9f7fa000501280918402df66@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <9f7fa00050128092153e4de18@mail.gmail.com> It seems my attachment didn't make it through the first time. Here's the patch: diff -Naur mailman-2.1.5.orig/Mailman/Defaults.py.in mailman-2.1.5/Mailman/Defaults.py.in --- mailman-2.1.5.orig/Mailman/Defaults.py.in 2004-04-24 19:30:03.000000000 -0700 +++ mailman-2.1.5/Mailman/Defaults.py.in 2005-01-26 13:18:07.000000000 -0800 @@ -348,6 +348,7 @@ # #DELIVERY_MODULE = 'Sendmail' DELIVERY_MODULE = 'SMTPDirect' +SMTP_DELIVERY_TIMEOUT = minutes(10) # MTA should name a module in Mailman/MTA which provides the MTA specific # functionality for creating and removing lists. Some MTAs like Exim can be diff -Naur mailman-2.1.5.orig/Mailman/Handlers/SMTPDirect.py mailman-2.1.5/Mailman/Handlers/SMTPDirect.py --- mailman-2.1.5.orig/Mailman/Handlers/SMTPDirect.py 2004-01-22 15:02:07.000000000 -0800 +++ mailman-2.1.5/Mailman/Handlers/SMTPDirect.py 2005-01-26 13:18:07.000000000 -0800 @@ -67,7 +67,12 @@ if self.__conn is None: self.__connect() try: + def handler (signum, frame): + raise smtplib.SMTPException('SMTP Delivery Timeout exceeded') + signal.signal(signal.SIGALRM, handler) + signal.alarm(mm_cfg.SMTP_DELIVERY_TIMEOUT) results = self.__conn.sendmail(envsender, recips, msgtext) + signal.alarm(0) except smtplib.SMTPException: # For safety, close this connection. The next send attempt will # automatically re-open it. Pass the exception on up. On Fri, 28 Jan 2005 09:18:31 -0800, Thien Vu wrote: > It should but the MTA we're connecting to is a load balancer, and this > is a known issue with our load balancer vendor (the backend goes down > but the load balancer doesn't terminate the connection), but this > could happen for a variety of other reasons. > > I chose to do this rather than SO_KEEPALIVE because the socket > interface isn't really exposed through the smtplib module. > > Thien > > > On Fri, 28 Jan 2005 11:01:30 +0100, Brad Knowles > wrote: > > At 9:00 PM -0800 2005-01-27, Thien Vu wrote: > > > > > The patch I've attached is a simple alarm around the SMTPDirect.py > > > call into smtplib to terminate the connection after a configurable > > > amount of time. Right now I have it set to minutes(10) but it's > > > completely configurable via mm_cfg.py > > > > That's very weird. The MTA should be dropping those connections > > after five minutes of idle time (I think that's the recommended > > value). Obviously, in your case the MTA is not doing this, so the > > client should definitely be protecting itself against being hung > > indefinitely. > > > > -- > > Brad Knowles, > > > > "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little > > temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." > > > > -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania > > Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755 > > > > SAGE member since 1995. See for more info. > > > From jrhett at meer.net Fri Jan 28 23:27:30 2005 From: jrhett at meer.net (Joe Rhett) Date: Fri Jan 28 23:51:33 2005 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Mailman 2.1.6 beta 1 In-Reply-To: <1105920535.5933.66.camel@geddy.wooz.org> References: <1105918198.5933.59.camel@geddy.wooz.org> <1105920535.5933.66.camel@geddy.wooz.org> Message-ID: <20050128222729.GC11159@meer.net> On Sun, Jan 16, 2005 at 07:08:55PM -0500, Barry Warsaw wrote: > - bin/newlist grew two new options: -u/--urlhost and -e/--emailhost which > lets the user provide the web and email hostnames for the new mailing > list. This is a better way to specify the domain for the list, rather > than the old 'mylist@hostname' syntax (which is still supported for > backward compatibility, but deprecated). And much applause was made. Thank you again. -- Joe Rhett Senior Geek Meer.net From russ.pagenkopf at uas.alaska.edu Fri Jan 28 23:56:08 2005 From: russ.pagenkopf at uas.alaska.edu (Russ Pagenkopf) Date: Fri Jan 28 23:56:18 2005 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Mailman 2.1.6 beta 1 In-Reply-To: <20050128222729.GC11159@meer.net> References: <1105918198.5933.59.camel@geddy.wooz.org> <1105920535.5933.66.camel@geddy.wooz.org> <20050128222729.GC11159@meer.net> Message-ID: <41FAC308.8070305@uas.alaska.edu> On Sun, Jan 16, 2005 at 07:08:55PM -0500, Barry Warsaw wrote: > - bin/newlist grew two new options: -u/--urlhost and -e/--emailhost which > lets the user provide the web and email hostnames for the new mailing > list. This is a better way to specify the domain for the list, rather > than the old 'mylist@hostname' syntax (which is still supported for > backward compatibility, but deprecated). I missed this the first time through. I think my modifications to the -help documentation in bin got checked in. If so, you might check to make sure these changes are documented correctly. FYI Russ Pagenkopf From tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp Sat Jan 29 03:36:04 2005 From: tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp (Tokio Kikuchi) Date: Sat Jan 29 03:36:14 2005 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Mailman 2.1.6 beta 1 In-Reply-To: <41FAC308.8070305@uas.alaska.edu> References: <1105918198.5933.59.camel@geddy.wooz.org> <1105920535.5933.66.camel@geddy.wooz.org> <20050128222729.GC11159@meer.net> <41FAC308.8070305@uas.alaska.edu> Message-ID: <41FAF694.3060707@is.kochi-u.ac.jp> Russ Pagenkopf wrote: > On Sun, Jan 16, 2005 at 07:08:55PM -0500, Barry Warsaw wrote: > >> - bin/newlist grew two new options: -u/--urlhost and -e/--emailhost >> which >> lets the user provide the web and email hostnames for the new >> mailing >> list. This is a better way to specify the domain for the list, >> rather >> than the old 'mylist@hostname' syntax (which is still supported for >> backward compatibility, but deprecated). > > > I missed this the first time through. I think my modifications to the > -help documentation in bin got checked in. If so, you might check to > make sure these changes are documented correctly. > I think this is not relevant to your modifications. The diff corresponding to this news entry can be seen in the SF CVS as: http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/mailman/mailman/bin/newlist?r1=2.16.2.2&r2=2.16.2.3 BTW, I think I missed your 'modifications to the -help documentation.' Can you point the patch entry in the SourceForge tracker? http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=103&atid=300103 -- Tokio Kikuchi, tkikuchi@ is.kochi-u.ac.jp http://weather.is.kochi-u.ac.jp/ From terri at zone12.com Sat Jan 29 05:02:17 2005 From: terri at zone12.com (Terri Oda) Date: Sat Jan 29 05:01:29 2005 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Mailman 2.1.6 beta 1 In-Reply-To: <41FAF694.3060707@is.kochi-u.ac.jp> References: <1105918198.5933.59.camel@geddy.wooz.org> <1105920535.5933.66.camel@geddy.wooz.org> <20050128222729.GC11159@meer.net> <41FAC308.8070305@uas.alaska.edu> <41FAF694.3060707@is.kochi-u.ac.jp> Message-ID: <914B98CA-71AA-11D9-9B6B-000D934FBF38@zone12.com> On Jan 28, 2005, at 9:36 PM, Tokio Kikuchi wrote: > BTW, I think I missed your 'modifications to the -help documentation.' > Can you point the patch entry in the SourceForge tracker? I've got Russ's modifications -- that's the stuff I haven't checked in yet (I was busy sucessfully defending my Master's thesis in December and a bunch of stuff fell by the wayside). I should have it checked in the next couple of days (hopefully later tonight), and I'll alter the newlist stuff to match. Terri From russ.pagenkopf at uas.alaska.edu Sat Jan 29 08:35:56 2005 From: russ.pagenkopf at uas.alaska.edu (Russ Pagenkopf) Date: Sat Jan 29 08:36:04 2005 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Mailman 2.1.6 beta 1 In-Reply-To: <41FAF694.3060707@is.kochi-u.ac.jp> References: <1105918198.5933.59.camel@geddy.wooz.org> <1105920535.5933.66.camel@geddy.wooz.org> <20050128222729.GC11159@meer.net> <41FAC308.8070305@uas.alaska.edu> <41FAF694.3060707@is.kochi-u.ac.jp> Message-ID: <41FB3CDC.4010700@uas.alaska.edu> Tokio Kikuchi wrote: > > BTW, I think I missed your 'modifications to the -help documentation.' > Can you point the patch entry in the SourceForge tracker? > http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=103&atid=300103 I sent them to Terri Oda. Don't know where they went from there. I'm supposed to write man pages with the same info. Haven't done that yet. :-( Gotta learn man page writing. :-) Russ Pagenkopf From barry at python.org Sat Jan 29 23:30:25 2005 From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw) Date: Sat Jan 29 23:30:28 2005 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] SMTPDirect timeout In-Reply-To: <9f7fa000501280918402df66@mail.gmail.com> References: <9f7fa0005012613244c4a66a@mail.gmail.com> <9f7fa0005012721003b51cb50@mail.gmail.com> <9f7fa000501280918402df66@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1107037825.14652.7.camel@presto.wooz.org> On Fri, 2005-01-28 at 12:18, Thien Vu wrote: > It should but the MTA we're connecting to is a load balancer, and this > is a known issue with our load balancer vendor (the backend goes down > but the load balancer doesn't terminate the connection), but this > could happen for a variety of other reasons. > > I chose to do this rather than SO_KEEPALIVE because the socket > interface isn't really exposed through the smtplib module. I'm not really crazy about adding a sigalarm handler here to fix this problem, especially because it really does appear to be caused by a bug in your smtp server (or load balancer -- but it makes no difference from Mailman's point of view). OTOH, as you say, there's no (public) exposure of the underlying socket object in the SMTP object. Even if there was, in newer Python's you'd have to watch out for SSLFakeSockets which don't expose the real underlying socket. I'm -0 on this patch. Aside from that, it's generally a much better idea to use SourceForge for posting patches. -Barry -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 307 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-developers/attachments/20050129/afa0c9d9/attachment.pgp From barry at python.org Sat Jan 29 23:33:44 2005 From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw) Date: Sat Jan 29 23:33:45 2005 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] SMTPDirect timeout In-Reply-To: <1107037825.14652.7.camel@presto.wooz.org> References: <9f7fa0005012613244c4a66a@mail.gmail.com> <9f7fa0005012721003b51cb50@mail.gmail.com> <9f7fa000501280918402df66@mail.gmail.com> <1107037825.14652.7.camel@presto.wooz.org> Message-ID: <1107038023.14657.10.camel@presto.wooz.org> On Sat, 2005-01-29 at 17:30, Barry Warsaw wrote: > Aside from that, it's generally a much better idea to use SourceForge > for posting patches. Never mind. I see by a later email message that you did post the patch to SF! -Barry -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 307 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-developers/attachments/20050129/7429bd5e/attachment.pgp From msapiro at value.net Sun Jan 30 03:28:42 2005 From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Sun Jan 30 03:29:04 2005 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] [Mailman-Users] Bug in matching acceptable_aliases - was: Are the "regexps" used in Mailman reallyRegularExpressions? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Mark Sapiro wrote: >Jeff Groves wrote: > >>So, would that "never match" scenario be a feature or a bug? > >It would be a bug if it's true. As I said, I just looked quickly at the >code. I would have to verify actual behavior before drawing a final >conclusion. > >>My opinion is that Mailman should do the Python equivalent of a "tolower" to every email >>address (and every regular expression) before applying the regular expressions filter.... > >In most cases the IGNORECASE flag is specified for the match which >accomplishes the same thing. I didn't see it here, but as I said, I'm >not that confident that case is not ignored. I've had a chance to test this out and my original impression is correct. Currently if the pattern in acceptable_aliases has any upper-case only characters in it, it won't ever match. I have submitted a bug report at http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1112349&group_id=103&atid=100103 (thus the Cc: to Mailman-Developers) -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From thien.vu at gmail.com Sun Jan 30 05:36:23 2005 From: thien.vu at gmail.com (Thien Vu) Date: Sun Jan 30 05:36:26 2005 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] SMTPDirect timeout In-Reply-To: <1107037825.14652.7.camel@presto.wooz.org> References: <9f7fa0005012613244c4a66a@mail.gmail.com> <9f7fa0005012721003b51cb50@mail.gmail.com> <9f7fa000501280918402df66@mail.gmail.com> <1107037825.14652.7.camel@presto.wooz.org> Message-ID: <9f7fa00050129203615bc2c9f@mail.gmail.com> On Sat, 29 Jan 2005 17:30:25 -0500, Barry Warsaw wrote: > On Fri, 2005-01-28 at 12:18, Thien Vu wrote: > > I chose to do this rather than SO_KEEPALIVE because the socket > > interface isn't really exposed through the smtplib module. > > I'm not really crazy about adding a sigalarm handler here to fix this > problem, especially because it really does appear to be caused by a bug > in your smtp server (or load balancer -- but it makes no difference from > Mailman's point of view). OTOH, as you say, there's no (public) > exposure of the underlying socket object in the SMTP object. Even if > there was, in newer Python's you'd have to watch out for SSLFakeSockets > which don't expose the real underlying socket. > > I'm -0 on this patch. I'm not super thrilled about this either, but it's something can potentially cause mailman to fail and may want to be protected against. I suppose generally your SMTPHOST is a host that you control so if it is failing then you may have bigger problems to deal with. The solution seemed to be the least impacting of other systems. Thien From barry at python.org Sun Jan 30 19:41:34 2005 From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw) Date: Sun Jan 30 19:41:37 2005 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Long question: list management library? In-Reply-To: <41F326AB.7020704@iprimus.com.au> References: <41F326AB.7020704@iprimus.com.au> Message-ID: <1107110493.14649.77.camel@presto.wooz.org> On Sat, 2005-01-22 at 23:23, Sean Vickery wrote: > Clearly Mailman has some fairly sophisticated code to do all of this. > How tightly coupled is that code to the rest of Mailman? Are there any > 'unpackaged' libraries there might be to perform these functions? Mailman is at its essence a library. One way to think of the code is as a Python package called 'Mailman' with various command line script wrappers providing interfaces for cgi, mail programs, cron, and shell access. I don't know if that answers your question, but it might help when thinking about whether Mailman can solve your problem. -Barry -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... 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