From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org Wed Sep 1 00:27:57 2004 From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles) Date: Wed Sep 1 00:40:15 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Min requirements for running Mailman? In-Reply-To: <41348B82.1060507@pobox.com> References: <41335827.2030200@pobox.com> <41348B82.1060507@pobox.com> Message-ID: At 7:30 AM -0700 2004-08-31, Adam Boettiger wrote: >> BTW, I'd like to thank you for your good questions. This will >> make excellent fodder for the FAQ, and I'm surprised that it wasn't >> already there. > > Brad - No worries. Happy to be the guinea pig. ;) Alright, I've spent some time writing and polishing the FAQ entry for this, and would ask you to take a look at . I know this doesn't directly address the issue of the particular questions regarding the distributions available to you via Linode, but would this have helped answer your question at the time? -- Brad Knowles, "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755 SAGE member since 1995. See for more info. From Nigel.Metheringham at dev.intechnology.co.uk Wed Sep 1 12:16:05 2004 From: Nigel.Metheringham at dev.intechnology.co.uk (Nigel Metheringham) Date: Wed Sep 1 12:16:13 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Possible spam attack against MM lists Message-ID: <1094033765.30208.24.camel@angua.localnet> There has always been a stream of attempted SPAM to the lists I host, and to date, touch wood, its been caught by MTA address checking and MM member only post checking. I seem now to be getting posts to the list forged from addresses of list members (or in one case a list itself). The rejection of these so far has been pretty much by sheer luck (they failed the content policy checks). Are other people seeing this? I am starting to think that my advocacy of mandatory death sentences for spammers is far too liberal and wishy-washy. Nigel. -- [ Nigel Metheringham Nigel.Metheringham@InTechnology.co.uk ] [ - Comments in this message are my own and not ITO opinion/policy - ] From claw at kanga.nu Wed Sep 1 16:41:55 2004 From: claw at kanga.nu (J C Lawrence) Date: Wed Sep 1 16:41:59 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Possible spam attack against MM lists In-Reply-To: Message from Nigel Metheringham of "Wed, 01 Sep 2004 11:16:05 BST." <1094033765.30208.24.camel@angua.localnet> References: <1094033765.30208.24.camel@angua.localnet> Message-ID: <14162.1094049715@kanga.nu> On Wed, 01 Sep 2004 11:16:05 +0100 Nigel Metheringham wrote: > There has always been a stream of attempted SPAM to the lists I host, > and to date, touch wood, its been caught by MTA address checking and > MM member only post checking. > I seem now to be getting posts to the list forged from addresses of > list members (or in one case a list itself). The rejection of these > so far has been pretty much by sheer luck (they failed the content > policy checks). > Are other people seeing this? Yup, to the tune of several score per day per list, tho I don't distinguish between SPAM and virus mail in this regard. > I am starting to think that my advocacy of mandatory death sentences > for spammers is far too liberal and wishy-washy. I use TMDA as a C/R system in front of all my lists and then remove all posting controls on the lists at the Mailman level. Given that the majority of list members never even try to post, this has been proven a particularly effective control. I also put mimefilter (a MIME stripper) in front of the lists to remove dangerous payloads, and then auto-junk messages which end up too short (this doesn't catch much, but just enough to glad of). In 3 years of using this system or earlier variants of it I've had only 12 spam make it through the system. Not ideal, but certainly a tolerable rate. -- J C Lawrence ---------(*) Satan, oscillate my metallic sonatas. claw@kanga.nu He lived as a devil, eh? http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/ Evil is a name of a foeman, as I live. From Nigel.Metheringham at dev.intechnology.co.uk Wed Sep 1 16:55:47 2004 From: Nigel.Metheringham at dev.intechnology.co.uk (Nigel Metheringham) Date: Wed Sep 1 16:55:50 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Possible spam attack against MM lists In-Reply-To: <14162.1094049715@kanga.nu> References: <1094033765.30208.24.camel@angua.localnet> <14162.1094049715@kanga.nu> Message-ID: <1094050547.809.18.camel@angua.localnet> On Wed, 2004-09-01 at 10:41 -0400, J C Lawrence wrote: > On Wed, 01 Sep 2004 11:16:05 +0100 > Nigel Metheringham wrote: > > > There has always been a stream of attempted SPAM to the lists I host, > > and to date, touch wood, its been caught by MTA address checking and > > MM member only post checking. > > > I seem now to be getting posts to the list forged from addresses of > > list members (or in one case a list itself). The rejection of these > > so far has been pretty much by sheer luck (they failed the content > > policy checks). > > > Are other people seeing this? > > Yup, to the tune of several score per day per list, tho I don't > distinguish between SPAM and virus mail in this regard. OK, maybe I have been lucky. Although getting the member list other than by archive trawling isn't possible - EU data protection laws mean that I routinely not only block list roster access but remove the appropriate fragments from the list info pages. > I use TMDA as a C/R system in front of all my lists and then remove all > posting controls on the lists at the Mailman level. Given that the > majority of list members never even try to post, this has been proven a > particularly effective control. I am wondering about switching to the Mailman members initially moderated policy, although I don't really want to increase the load on the moderators. Since in this case (which may be isolated or co-incidental) the address forged as the sender address is a frequent list poster, using TMDA would not seem to add much. What might add something would be an option where posters get a response back on postings similar to the current message held for moderation where they have a choice of actions - post or cancel at a minimum. > I also put mimefilter (a MIME stripper) > in front of the lists to remove dangerous payloads, and then auto-junk > messages which end up too short (this doesn't catch much, but just > enough to glad of). In 3 years of using this system or earlier variants > of it I've had only 12 spam make it through the system. Not ideal, but > certainly a tolerable rate. Its recently been requested that we start allowing some MIME parts through - especially PGP signature types and patch files. Loosening the current paranoid content posting policy (which is actually there because historically pipermail didn't MIME and I want the archives to be sane) is going to open the cracks wider and allow some slime to lever things open further... Nigel. -- [ Nigel Metheringham Nigel.Metheringham@InTechnology.co.uk ] [ - Comments in this message are my own and not ITO opinion/policy - ] From claw at kanga.nu Wed Sep 1 17:22:59 2004 From: claw at kanga.nu (J C Lawrence) Date: Wed Sep 1 17:23:02 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Possible spam attack against MM lists In-Reply-To: Message from Nigel Metheringham of "Wed, 01 Sep 2004 15:55:47 BST." <1094050547.809.18.camel@angua.localnet> References: <1094033765.30208.24.camel@angua.localnet> <14162.1094049715@kanga.nu> <1094050547.809.18.camel@angua.localnet> Message-ID: <17095.1094052179@kanga.nu> On Wed, 01 Sep 2004 15:55:47 +0100 Nigel Metheringham wrote: > On Wed, 2004-09-01 at 10:41 -0400, J C Lawrence wrote: >> On Wed, 01 Sep 2004 11:16:05 +0100 Nigel Metheringham >> wrote: >> I use TMDA as a C/R system in front of all my lists and then remove >> all posting controls on the lists at the Mailman level. Given that >> the majority of list members never even try to post, this has been >> proven a particularly effective control. > I am wondering about switching to the Mailman members initially > moderated policy, although I don't really want to increase the load on > the moderators. Quite. I implemented the TMDA system for my lists initially just to get the SPAM load off me as moderator. There's quite a relief in running a fully moderated list and getting single digit SPAM at the moderation interface per year. > Since in this case (which may be isolated or co-incidental) the > address forged as the sender address is a frequent list poster, using > TMDA would not seem to add much. TMDA uses the envelope sender rather than the From: address, which successfully traps most forged spam/virus mail. > What might add something would be an option where posters get a > response back on postings similar to the current message held for > moderation where they have a choice of actions - post or cancel at a > minimum. Yup, and in fact TMDA can be setup to do precisely this: just configure it to not add confirmants to the whitelist and reword the confirm request message to read as a posting check. >> I also put mimefilter (a MIME stripper) in front of the lists to >> remove dangerous payloads, and then auto-junk messages which end up >> too short (this doesn't catch much, but just enough to glad of). In >> 3 years of using this system or earlier variants of it I've had only >> 12 spam make it through the system. Not ideal, but certainly a >> tolerable rate. > Its recently been requested that we start allowing some MIME parts > through - especially PGP signature types and patch files. This is precisely why I use mimefilter instead of demine: it can be configured to leave specific MIME types untouched. I also wrapped mimefilter in a procmail recipe that skips the mimefilter step if a special X-header is present. In this way some MIME types can always get through, and individual members can special case specific messages to get a particular MIME construct onto the list. So far it has worked perfectly. > Loosening the current paranoid content posting policy (which is > actually there because historically pipermail didn't MIME and I want > the archives to be sane) is going to open the cracks wider and allow > some slime to lever things open further... Yeah, that's always the problem. As I keep telling a few people at work: Security (and accounting for that matter) is all about making sure that people don't do things. Doing our jobs done is all about actually doing things... -- J C Lawrence ---------(*) Satan, oscillate my metallic sonatas. claw@kanga.nu He lived as a devil, eh? http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/ Evil is a name of a foeman, as I live. From adam.boettiger at pobox.com Wed Sep 1 20:27:56 2004 From: adam.boettiger at pobox.com (Adam Boettiger) Date: Wed Sep 1 20:28:11 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Addition to FAQ re: List of available customization fields In-Reply-To: References: <4134CEFA.8000002@pobox.com> Message-ID: <413614AC.8050508@pobox.com> Terri Oda wrote: > Anyhow, here it is. I'll go put it in the FAQ. Perhaps it is me, but I find the following missing: -- subscriber's email address (i.e. "You are subscribed as") Web URL to unsubscribe or for list removal Email unsubscribe link -- Are there fields for these? From wheakory at isu.edu Thu Sep 2 01:32:39 2004 From: wheakory at isu.edu (Kory Wheatley) Date: Thu Sep 2 01:36:18 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Scrubber Question Message-ID: <41365C17.7040402@isu.edu> Does Scrubber have the capibility of allowing attachments through that are a certain size? I know once you configure Scrubber and put it in action in Mailman, it will strip every attachment. This will not work for me, I would like to have Scrubber only strip attachments if there over a certain size. How can I grab the size of the attachment and check that right at the very beginning of the Scrubber.py script and if it's under a certain size don't run Scrubber and if it's over, run scrubber. Has anyone developed this in Mailman yet? I would really appreciate a response, this is something that our managers would really like to have working. -- Kory Wheatley Academic Computing Analyst Sr. Phone 282-3874 ######################################### Everything must point to him. From tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp Thu Sep 2 02:39:44 2004 From: tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp (Tokio Kikuchi) Date: Thu Sep 2 02:40:34 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Scrubber Question In-Reply-To: <41365C17.7040402@isu.edu> References: <41365C17.7040402@isu.edu> Message-ID: <41366BD0.7040803@is.kochi-u.ac.jp> Hi, Kory Wheatley wrote: > Does Scrubber have the capibility of allowing attachments through that > are a certain size? No. > I know once you configure Scrubber and put it in > action in Mailman, it will strip every attachment. This will not work > for me, I would like to have Scrubber only strip attachments if there > over a certain size. Because Scrubber.py was developed to use in archiver where attatchments will mess up the archived message page, it does not check the size or other parameters. > How can I grab the size of the attachment and check that right at the > very beginning of the Scrubber.py script and if it's under a certain > size don't run Scrubber and if it's over, run scrubber. > Has anyone developed this in Mailman yet? > I would really appreciate a response, this is something that our > managers would really like to have working. Your contribution to the source code will be appreciated. ;-) > -- Tokio Kikuchi, tkikuchi@ is.kochi-u.ac.jp http://weather.is.kochi-u.ac.jp/ From stephen at xemacs.org Thu Sep 2 07:30:19 2004 From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull) Date: Thu Sep 2 07:30:32 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Possible spam attack against MM lists In-Reply-To: <1094050547.809.18.camel@angua.localnet> (Nigel Metheringham's message of "Wed, 01 Sep 2004 15:55:47 +0100") References: <1094033765.30208.24.camel@angua.localnet> <14162.1094049715@kanga.nu> <1094050547.809.18.camel@angua.localnet> Message-ID: <871xhlp79w.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> >>>>> "Nigel" == Nigel Metheringham writes: Nigel> On Wed, 2004-09-01 at 10:41 -0400, J C Lawrence wrote: >> On Wed, 01 Sep 2004 11:16:05 +0100 >> Nigel Metheringham wrote: >>> I seem now to be getting posts to the list forged from >>> addresses of list members (or in one case a list itself). The >>> rejection of these so far has been pretty much by sheer luck >>> (they failed the content policy checks). >>> Are other people seeing this? ISTR a spam from "Barry Warsaw" on the python-dev list. >> Yup, to the tune of several score per day per list, tho I don't >> distinguish between SPAM and virus mail in this regard. Nigel> OK, maybe I have been lucky. Although getting the member Nigel> list other than by archive trawling isn't possible - EU Nigel> data protection laws mean that I routinely not only block Nigel> list roster access but remove the appropriate fragments Nigel> from the list info pages. I think you have been lucky, either in choosing members who don'tuse Windows, or members who do but nonetheless don't catch viruses. What I see a fair amount of is mail "from" a list member to the list, that has gone through a bunch of machines that seem to be a legit ISP not that of the member. Ie, it's one of those Yenta viruses that matches up two address book entries, one as the sender, one as the receiver. Spammers seem to have figured this or a similar trick out, as well. Or maybe the spammer's agent is such a virus. jcl> I use TMDA as a C/R system in front of all my lists and then jcl> remove all posting controls on the lists at the Mailman level. jcl> Given that the majority of list members never even try to post, jcl> this has been proven a particularly effective control. Since the majority of spam uses faked addresses all around, except on the envelope, I can see why. I'm afraid you may be in for a nasty surprise in the near future (at least if you run open-subscribe lists, even with confirmation) as I've witnessed two recent incidents where the spammer subscribed to a members-only-post list, then spammed. Since the confirmation for the subscription requires a valid address, the TMDA challenge would go there, too! Nigel> I am wondering about switching to the Mailman members Nigel> initially moderated policy, although I don't really want to Nigel> increase the load on the moderators. This will help prevent spammers from signing up for a one-time spam on a members-only-post list, but otherwise, it doesn't help much, I think. A lot of the spam/spew I see is "from" charter members who have been around for a decade. Nigel> What might add something would be an option where posters Nigel> get a response back on postings similar to the current Nigel> message held for moderation where they have a choice of Nigel> actions - post or cancel at a minimum. It would for a while, but the spammer has a big advantage here once he figures it out. He just bounces back a response to _all_ such challenges, whereas a conscientious member will have to check (at least his memory) whether he posted or not. OTOH, if it goes to the forged address of a legit member, that would be an annoyance to someone whose only sin is to have thrown snake eyes in the "spammer alias" lottery. Nigel> Its recently been requested that we start allowing some Nigel> MIME parts through - especially PGP signature types There's your answer---_require_ a PGP signature. <0.5 wink> I've seriously considered doing that, not as a requirement, but as a "self-approval" mechanism. People with known signatures can post without being molested by the filters, everybody else runs the gamut. But I think it would be a lot of work for little profit in my situation. HTH. Unfortunately, I dunno what the answer is, and the death penalty more and more seems like a step in the right direction. :-( -- Institute of Policy and Planning Sciences http://turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp University of Tsukuba Tennodai 1-1-1 Tsukuba 305-8573 JAPAN Ask not how you can "do" free software business; ask what your business can "do for" free software. From claw at kanga.nu Thu Sep 2 07:37:41 2004 From: claw at kanga.nu (J C Lawrence) Date: Thu Sep 2 07:37:45 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Possible spam attack against MM lists In-Reply-To: Message from "Stephen J. Turnbull" of "Thu, 02 Sep 2004 14:30:19 +0900." <871xhlp79w.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> References: <1094033765.30208.24.camel@angua.localnet> <14162.1094049715@kanga.nu> <1094050547.809.18.camel@angua.localnet> <871xhlp79w.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> Message-ID: <23302.1094103461@kanga.nu> On Thu, 02 Sep 2004 14:30:19 +0900 Stephen J Turnbull wrote: >> I use TMDA as a C/R system in front of all my lists and then remove >> all posting controls on the lists at the Mailman level. Given that >> the majority of list members never even try to post, this has been >> proven a particularly effective control. > Since the majority of spam uses faked addresses all around, except on > the envelope, I can see why. Yup. > I'm afraid you may be in for a nasty surprise in the near future (at > least if you run open-subscribe lists, even with confirmation) as I've > witnessed two recent incidents where the spammer subscribed to a > members-only-post list, then spammed. Given the ubiquity of Mailman it is only a matter of time. Turing tests are a bitch. > Since the confirmation for the subscription requires a valid address, > the TMDA challenge would go there, too! There's a minor detail of the envelope continuing to agree with the From: which can hurt there, but that's a detail. -- J C Lawrence ---------(*) Satan, oscillate my metallic sonatas. claw@kanga.nu He lived as a devil, eh? http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/ Evil is a name of a foeman, as I live. From Nigel.Metheringham at dev.intechnology.co.uk Thu Sep 2 10:08:52 2004 From: Nigel.Metheringham at dev.intechnology.co.uk (Nigel Metheringham) Date: Thu Sep 2 10:08:55 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Possible spam attack against MM lists In-Reply-To: <871xhlp79w.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> References: <1094033765.30208.24.camel@angua.localnet> <14162.1094049715@kanga.nu> <1094050547.809.18.camel@angua.localnet> <871xhlp79w.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> Message-ID: <1094112532.4597.4.camel@angua.localnet> On Thu, 2004-09-02 at 14:30 +0900, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: > >>>>> "Nigel" == Nigel Metheringham writes: > Nigel> What might add something would be an option where posters > Nigel> get a response back on postings similar to the current > Nigel> message held for moderation where they have a choice of > Nigel> actions - post or cancel at a minimum. > > It would for a while, but the spammer has a big advantage here once he > figures it out. He just bounces back a response to _all_ such > challenges, whereas a conscientious member will have to check (at > least his memory) whether he posted or not. OTOH, if it goes to the > forged address of a legit member, that would be an annoyance to > someone whose only sin is to have thrown snake eyes in the "spammer > alias" lottery. That only applies where the spammer has actually signed up using an address that gets back to them. If the spammer is doing forged sender addresses they won't get the C/R (Mailman confirm/reject) message and if this is being implemented it should certainly be using cryptographically secured cookies so sending a response to a C/R without seeing the C/R would not be possible. It would be a bitch for all the posting list members, but gives them protection against having their names taken in vain (and also gives people a cooling off period to retract that flame they sent in the heat of the moment). Nigel. -- [ Nigel Metheringham Nigel.Metheringham@InTechnology.co.uk ] [ - Comments in this message are my own and not ITO opinion/policy - ] From adam.boettiger at pobox.com Thu Sep 2 23:50:12 2004 From: adam.boettiger at pobox.com (Adam Boettiger) Date: Thu Sep 2 23:50:51 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Re: List of available customization fields Message-ID: <41379594.90107@pobox.com> Terri Oda wrote: > Anyhow, here it is. I'll go put it in the FAQ. Perhaps it is me, but I find the following field names missing: -- subscriber's email address (i.e. "You are subscribed as") Web URL to unsubscribe or for list removal Email unsubscribe link -- Are there fields for these? From tfheen at raw.no Sun Sep 5 09:07:58 2004 From: tfheen at raw.no (Tollef Fog Heen) Date: Sun Sep 5 09:08:00 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Alternate user (and admin) interfaces In-Reply-To: <40F5A07F.2090607@colorstudy.com> (Ian Bicking's message of "Wed, 14 Jul 2004 16:07:11 -0500") References: <40F5A07F.2090607@colorstudy.com> Message-ID: <877jr919dd.fsf@vawad.raw.no> * Ian Bicking (Yes, I know, old mail, but still) | I've been searching around for people's experiences implementing | alternate web interfaces for Mailman, but I've been surprised not to | find much. | | The desire to do this seems obvious to me -- there's a lot of | different flavors of mailing list (discussion, announce, | correspondance management, and many others). The interface tries to | support all of these, and is rather overwhelming as a result. Since I | haven't found other people making these interfaces, I'm guessing: (a) | I'm not looking in the right places, (b) people are doing this but not | sharing their results, (c) and it's so easy they don't even need to | ask public questions about it, (d) or it's so hard they give up | quickly, (e) or it's easy but fragile, and people create lots of | prototypes but nothing serious, (e) or everyone lacks the imagination | or interest to try. For me, it was b) (part of a job). I replaced the MembershipAdaptor with something that used a postgresql database and then wrote a completely separate interface to work with the database. Fairly easy, alltogether, though there were some bugs in various parts of Mailman doing assumptions about that you were using OldStyleMemberShipAdaptor (but those were fairly easily fixed, and patches posted). -- Tollef Fog Heen ,''`. UNIX is user friendly, it's just picky about who its friends are : :' : `. `' `- From tfheen at raw.no Mon Sep 6 17:46:48 2004 From: tfheen at raw.no (Tollef Fog Heen) Date: Mon Sep 6 17:46:51 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Min requirements for running Mailman? In-Reply-To: <1093942858.3698.16.camel@angua.localnet> (Nigel Metheringham's message of "Tue, 31 Aug 2004 10:00:58 +0100") References: <41335827.2030200@pobox.com> <41335F86.3080108@colorstudy.com> <4133DCE1.90509@pobox.com> <1093942858.3698.16.camel@angua.localnet> Message-ID: <878ybne6xj.fsf@vawad.raw.no> * Nigel Metheringham | I'd tend to take this as:- | * Mailman is a bitch to package Not really. It's fairly well-behaved in my experience. It's a semi-large web application with some requirements, but nothing unreasonable. | * RH have packaged it for a while | * RH found a good few of the gotchas in packaging Mailman | * RH have subsequently learnt from their mistakes and recently | have produced good packages. | * Other distros may do better, or may yet have to learn from their | mistakes :-) Mailman has been in Debian since June 1998 (1.0b4), so we've been working on it for a while as well. I think our packages are of good quality (far from perfect, but making perfect packages is _a lot_ of work. ;) -- Tollef Fog Heen ,''`. UNIX is user friendly, it's just picky about who its friends are : :' : `. `' `- From Mailman at Kettle.org Sat Sep 4 20:52:47 2004 From: Mailman at Kettle.org (Paul) Date: Tue Sep 7 02:33:11 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Looking for Yahoo style email list In-Reply-To: <4120D237.5070006@dcu.ie> References: <4120D237.5070006@dcu.ie> Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.2.20040904134527.01ef1ec0@mail.kettle.org> I am looking for something that can be both an email list and a BBS style web page like Yahoo Groups. I want an email list that if the user chooses can read and post to the list from a web page like the Yahoo Groups. Can Mailman be adapted? Does an open source solution exist? Thanks Paul From claw at kanga.nu Tue Sep 7 04:14:56 2004 From: claw at kanga.nu (J C Lawrence) Date: Tue Sep 7 04:14:59 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Looking for Yahoo style email list In-Reply-To: Message from Paul of "Sat, 04 Sep 2004 13:52:47 CDT." <6.1.2.0.2.20040904134527.01ef1ec0@mail.kettle.org> References: <4120D237.5070006@dcu.ie> <6.1.2.0.2.20040904134527.01ef1ec0@mail.kettle.org> Message-ID: <25089.1094523296@kanga.nu> On Sat, 04 Sep 2004 13:52:47 -0500 Paul wrote: > I am looking for something that can be both an email list and a BBS > style web page like Yahoo Groups. I want an email list that if the > user chooses can read and post to the list from a web page like the > Yahoo Groups. You might like to see the current implementation of the archives at Kanga.nu, and then read the User FAQ on how that was accomplished. other reasonable approaches would enclude using a GMane-like setup. -- J C Lawrence ---------(*) Satan, oscillate my metallic sonatas. claw@kanga.nu He lived as a devil, eh? http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/ Evil is a name of a foeman, as I live. From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org Tue Sep 7 04:38:23 2004 From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles) Date: Tue Sep 7 04:45:49 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Looking for Yahoo style email list In-Reply-To: <6.1.2.0.2.20040904134527.01ef1ec0@mail.kettle.org> References: <4120D237.5070006@dcu.ie> <6.1.2.0.2.20040904134527.01ef1ec0@mail.kettle.org> Message-ID: At 1:52 PM -0500 2004-09-04, Paul wrote: > I am looking for something that can be both an email list and a BBS > style web page like Yahoo Groups. I want an email list that if the > user chooses can read and post to the list from a web page like the > Yahoo Groups. Mailman doesn't do this. It'll handle the mailing list side reasonably well, but the BBS style interface is not included. > Can Mailman be adapted? Probably. Can you write code in Python? > Does an open source solution exist? If you find one, please let us know. -- Brad Knowles, "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755 SAGE member since 1995. See for more info. From simmosiil at hotmail.com Thu Sep 9 11:23:32 2004 From: simmosiil at hotmail.com (Simmo Siil) Date: Thu Sep 9 11:23:36 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Mailman problem! Message-ID: I'm using Mailman with Sendmail on SuSE. I have created several lists (on the list about 50...60 people each) Most of the people in the list are same server users. When I'm sending an email to the list, the server hangs (even working with the shell account is very slow). When I'm looking at the top, then i see PID USER PR NI VIRT RES SHR S %CPU %MEM TIME+ COMMAND 17749 wwwrun 17 0 10884 9260 4416 S 10.3 7.8 0:00.64 httpd2-prefork 17612 wwwrun 16 0 9388 7276 3076 S 6.1 6.2 0:02.53 httpd2-prefork 17770 wwwrun 15 0 4852 2400 2280 S 0.6 2.0 0:00.02 httpd2-prefork 17772 wwwrun 15 0 4852 2400 2288 S 0.6 2.0 0:00.02 httpd2-prefork 17773 wwwrun 18 0 4852 2400 2288 S 0.6 2.0 0:00.02 httpd2-prefork same time in the /var/log/messages is see Sep 9 12:25:00 gw /USR/SBIN/CRON[17775]: (mailman) CMD (/usr/bin/python -S /usr/lib/mailman/cron/gate_news) And in the mailog i see that the mail has sent to the list Sep 9 08:42:50 gw sendmail[12986]: i895gmhT012982: to="|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post list", ctladdr= (2/0), delay=00:00:02, xdelay=00:00:01, mailer=prog, pri=34098, dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent and list-bounces@domain has sent it to the users and sendmail sends mail to the users very slowly. and server starts to hang. Sendmail sends the mail abount 5 to 10 min. At the same time no other user can't send mail properly (sending mail starts to hang). Also wery often stops working and i see next picture: gw:/ # rcmailman restart Shutting down mailman failed Starting mailmanThe master qrunner lock could not be acquired. It appears as though there is a stale master qrunner lock. Try re-running mailmanctl with the -s flag. done gw:/ # /usr/lib/mailman/bin/mailmanctl -s start Starting Mailman's master qrunner. gw:/ # rcmailman restart Shutting down mailman done Starting mailman done How i can solv this problem? Thank You, Saapakusti _________________________________________________________________ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail From John.Airey at RNIB.ORG.UK Thu Sep 9 13:55:56 2004 From: John.Airey at RNIB.ORG.UK (John.Airey@RNIB.ORG.UK) Date: Thu Sep 9 13:58:09 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Timestamps in archive are +1 hr Message-ID: <9B66BBD37D5DD411B8CE00508B69700F05ADE361@pborolocal.rnib.org.uk> > -----Original Message----- > From: mailman-developers-bounces+john.airey=rnib.org.uk@python.org > [mailto:mailman-developers-bounces+john.airey=rnib.org.uk@pyth > on.org]On > Behalf Of Chris Boulter > Sent: Wednesday, 18 August 2004 14:29 > To: John W. Baxter > Cc: mailman-developers@python.org > Subject: Re: [Mailman-Developers] Timestamps in archive are +1 hr > > > On Tue 2004-08-17 11:41:09 -0700, John W. Baxter wrote: > > Version of Mailman? System on which you're running? > > Originally it was Mailman 2.1.2, but I've made extensive > modifications, > especially to the archiving. In fact, it's entirely possible that I > introduced this anomaly in the timestamps. > > > Assuming Linux, what is the third (last) line of > > cat /etc/adjtime > > Solaris, I'm afraid. I'm not sure what the equivalent file > is. The only > files whose names contain 'adjtime' are a couple of man pages. > > mailmandeploy@pavo # uname -a > SunOS pavo 5.9 Generic_112233-12 sun4u sparc SUNW,UltraAX-i2 > > -- What's your TZ variable set to? On my solitary Solaris box it's set to "GB". However, this box isn't running Mailman. -- John Airey, BSc (Jt Hons), CNA, RHCE Internet systems support officer, ITCSD, Royal National Institute of the Blind, Bakewell Road, Peterborough PE2 6XU, Tel.: +44 (0) 1733 375299 Fax: +44 (0) 1733 370848 John.Airey@rnib.org.uk To truly believe in Evolution requires complete faith that life has no meaning. Fortunately there are billions of people who aren't that stupid. -- DISCLAIMER: NOTICE: The information contained in this email and any attachments is confidential and may be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient you should not use, disclose, distribute or copy any of the content of it or of any attachment; you are requested to notify the sender immediately of your receipt of the email and then to delete it and any attachments from your system. RNIB endeavours to ensure that emails and any attachments generated by its staff are free from viruses or other contaminants. However, it cannot accept any responsibility for any such which are transmitted. We therefore recommend you scan all attachments. Please note that the statements and views expressed in this email and any attachments are those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of RNIB. RNIB Registered Charity Number: 226227 Website: http://www.rnib.org.uk From John.Airey at rnib.org.uk Thu Sep 9 14:15:06 2004 From: John.Airey at rnib.org.uk (John.Airey@rnib.org.uk) Date: Thu Sep 9 14:17:59 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Min requirements for running Mailman? Message-ID: <9B66BBD37D5DD411B8CE00508B69700F05ADE362@pborolocal.rnib.org.uk> > -----Original Message----- > From: mailman-developers-bounces+john.airey=rnib.org.uk@python.org > [mailto:mailman-developers-bounces+john.airey=rnib.org.uk@pyth > on.org]On > Behalf Of Tollef Fog Heen > Sent: Monday, 06 September 2004 16:47 > To: mailman-developers@python.org > Subject: Re: [Mailman-Developers] Min requirements for > running Mailman? > > > * Nigel Metheringham > > | I'd tend to take this as:- > | * Mailman is a bitch to package > > Not really. It's fairly well-behaved in my experience. It's a > semi-large web application with some requirements, but nothing > unreasonable. > > | * RH have packaged it for a while > | * RH found a good few of the gotchas in packaging Mailman > | * RH have subsequently learnt from their mistakes and recently > | have produced good packages. > | * Other distros may do better, or may yet have to > learn from their > | mistakes :-) > > Mailman has been in Debian since June 1998 (1.0b4), so we've been > working on it for a while as well. I think our packages are of good > quality (far from perfect, but making perfect packages is _a lot_ of > work. ;) > Just to throw my tuppence worth in... I've used mailman since Red Hat 7.2. I found that the version that came with Red Hat 9.0 wouldn't work for me (ie I couldn't upgrade to it) so I stuck with the 7.2 version (2.0.13) till the end of Red Hat 9 support. We are now running the 2.1.5 version that comes with Fedora but running it on Red Hat Enterprise Linux (RHEL). I did however have to recreate all the lists by hand in an overnight shift (what fun that was...) a few days before leaving the country (hence the rush). At that time I didn't know I could export the configuration (Doh!). Red Hat have taken some packages out of RHEL eg arpwatch and mysql-server (although this is in the "extras" channel) even though these are in the source RPM. Mailman is currently not included but might be being put back in to RHEL 4.0. I would like to hope so, as I find 2.1.5 far superior to 2.0.13. -- John Airey, BSc (Jt Hons), CNA, RHCE Internet systems support officer, ITCSD, Royal National Institute of the Blind, Bakewell Road, Peterborough PE2 6XU, Tel.: +44 (0) 1733 375299 Fax: +44 (0) 1733 370848 John.Airey@rnib.org.uk To truly believe in Evolution requires complete faith that life has no meaning. Fortunately there are billions of people who aren't that stupid. -- DISCLAIMER: NOTICE: The information contained in this email and any attachments is confidential and may be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient you should not use, disclose, distribute or copy any of the content of it or of any attachment; you are requested to notify the sender immediately of your receipt of the email and then to delete it and any attachments from your system. RNIB endeavours to ensure that emails and any attachments generated by its staff are free from viruses or other contaminants. However, it cannot accept any responsibility for any such which are transmitted. We therefore recommend you scan all attachments. Please note that the statements and views expressed in this email and any attachments are those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of RNIB. RNIB Registered Charity Number: 226227 Website: http://www.rnib.org.uk From jdennis at redhat.com Thu Sep 9 16:31:31 2004 From: jdennis at redhat.com (John Dennis) Date: Thu Sep 9 16:31:44 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Min requirements for running Mailman? In-Reply-To: <9B66BBD37D5DD411B8CE00508B69700F05ADE362@pborolocal.rnib.org.uk> References: <9B66BBD37D5DD411B8CE00508B69700F05ADE362@pborolocal.rnib.org.uk> Message-ID: <1094740291.348.321.camel@finch.boston.redhat.com> On Thu, 2004-09-09 at 08:15, John.Airey@rnib.org.uk wrote: > Red Hat have taken some packages out of RHEL eg arpwatch and mysql-server > (although this is in the "extras" channel) even though these are in the > source RPM. Mailman is currently not included but might be being put back in > to RHEL 4.0. I would like to hope so, as I find 2.1.5 far superior to > 2.0.13. Mailman 2.1.5 is in RHEL 4 -- John Dennis From Nigel.Metheringham at dev.intechnology.co.uk Thu Sep 9 16:48:30 2004 From: Nigel.Metheringham at dev.intechnology.co.uk (Nigel Metheringham) Date: Thu Sep 9 16:48:33 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Min requirements for running Mailman? In-Reply-To: <1094740291.348.321.camel@finch.boston.redhat.com> References: <9B66BBD37D5DD411B8CE00508B69700F05ADE362@pborolocal.rnib.org.uk> <1094740291.348.321.camel@finch.boston.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1094741310.29998.20.camel@angua.localnet> On Thu, 2004-09-09 at 10:31 -0400, John Dennis wrote: > On Thu, 2004-09-09 at 08:15, John.Airey@rnib.org.uk wrote: > > Red Hat have taken some packages out of RHEL eg arpwatch and mysql-server > > (although this is in the "extras" channel) even though these are in the > > source RPM. Mailman is currently not included but might be being put back in > > to RHEL 4.0. I would like to hope so, as I find 2.1.5 far superior to > > 2.0.13. > > Mailman 2.1.5 is in RHEL 4 Am I right in thinking that 2.1.5 does not have backward compatibility with 2.0.x versions, so it is not possible to directly upgrade a 2.0.x to 2.1.x? I was certainly unable to take lists to 2.1.5 when I tried recently on full system upgrade - I ended up recreating the lists with significant pain involved. Nigel. -- [ Nigel Metheringham Nigel.Metheringham@InTechnology.co.uk ] [ - Comments in this message are my own and not ITO opinion/policy - ] From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org Thu Sep 9 17:20:21 2004 From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles) Date: Thu Sep 9 17:22:24 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Min requirements for running Mailman? In-Reply-To: <1094741310.29998.20.camel@angua.localnet> References: <9B66BBD37D5DD411B8CE00508B69700F05ADE362@pborolocal.rnib.org.uk> <1094740291.348.321.camel@finch.boston.redhat.com> <1094741310.29998.20.camel@angua.localnet> Message-ID: At 3:48 PM +0100 2004-09-09, Nigel Metheringham wrote: > Am I right in thinking that 2.1.5 does not have backward compatibility > with 2.0.x versions, so it is not possible to directly upgrade a 2.0.x > to 2.1.x? It takes a little more work, yes. See . > I was certainly unable to take lists to 2.1.5 when I tried recently on > full system upgrade - I ended up recreating the lists with significant > pain involved. IIRC, that's basically one of the suggested methods. -- Brad Knowles, "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755 SAGE member since 1995. See for more info. From Nigel.Metheringham at dev.intechnology.co.uk Thu Sep 9 17:37:54 2004 From: Nigel.Metheringham at dev.intechnology.co.uk (Nigel Metheringham) Date: Thu Sep 9 17:37:56 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Min requirements for running Mailman? In-Reply-To: References: <9B66BBD37D5DD411B8CE00508B69700F05ADE362@pborolocal.rnib.org.uk> <1094740291.348.321.camel@finch.boston.redhat.com> <1094741310.29998.20.camel@angua.localnet> Message-ID: <1094744274.29998.30.camel@angua.localnet> On Thu, 2004-09-09 at 17:20 +0200, Brad Knowles wrote: > At 3:48 PM +0100 2004-09-09, Nigel Metheringham wrote: > > > Am I right in thinking that 2.1.5 does not have backward compatibility > > with 2.0.x versions, so it is not possible to directly upgrade a 2.0.x > > to 2.1.x? > > It takes a little more work, yes. See > . I think its rather worse than that against (at least) 2.1.5. Mailman refuses to touch any of the old list sets because they are missing certain required keys in the list data - related to topics from what I remember. Someone with better python skills than I (probably the majority of people here) could have fixed up the list structure from the bit of code that exploded, but I found pretty much all the mailman tools just exploded when they saw the list data. I guess the upgrade code in versions.py can't handle that particular shift anymore. Nigel. -- [ Nigel Metheringham Nigel.Metheringham@InTechnology.co.uk ] [ - Comments in this message are my own and not ITO opinion/policy - ] From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org Thu Sep 9 17:58:06 2004 From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles) Date: Thu Sep 9 17:58:26 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Min requirements for running Mailman? In-Reply-To: <1094744274.29998.30.camel@angua.localnet> References: <9B66BBD37D5DD411B8CE00508B69700F05ADE362@pborolocal.rnib.org.uk> <1094740291.348.321.camel@finch.boston.redhat.com> <1094741310.29998.20.camel@angua.localnet> <1094744274.29998.30.camel@angua.localnet> Message-ID: At 4:37 PM +0100 2004-09-09, Nigel Metheringham wrote: > Someone with better python skills than I (probably the majority of > people here) could have fixed up the list structure from the bit of code > that exploded, but I found pretty much all the mailman tools just > exploded when they saw the list data. I guess the upgrade code in > versions.py can't handle that particular shift anymore. Hmm. To do the upgrade and let the automated tools handle most things for you, might require upgrading from 2.0.x to an earlier 2.1.x version, and then to 2.1.5. Not pretty. ;( -- Brad Knowles, "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755 SAGE member since 1995. See for more info. From glenn at netmud.com Thu Sep 9 18:51:13 2004 From: glenn at netmud.com (Glenn Crocker) Date: Thu Sep 9 18:49:09 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] PN-Mailmain PostNuke Module available Message-ID: I've released the first version of PN-Mailman, a PostNuke module for working with GNU Mailman lists. You can download it at: http://noc.postnuke.com/projects/pn-mailman/ PostNuke MailMan is a module that provides a web-based interface to the GNU Mailman email list management system. Users can subscribe/unsubscribe, link to archives, etc. Administrators can view members lists, add users, remove users, etc. -glenn Glenn Crocker, glenn@netmud.com Netmud: http://www.netmud.com From pashdown at xmission.com Thu Sep 9 23:53:07 2004 From: pashdown at xmission.com (Pete Ashdown) Date: Thu Sep 9 23:53:10 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Replacing the abomination Pipermail with Lurker Message-ID: <20040909215307.GA2093@xmission.com> Recently I investigated the current state of mailing list archivers and stumbled upon Lurker (lurker.sourceforge.net). Simply put, Lurker is to Pipermail as spaceships are to ice-skates. Has any consideration been given to tossing Pipermail as the default archiver and replacing it with something like Lurker? Has anyone managed to bang the mailman archive authentication over Lurker for private lists? From mch at cix.compulink.co.uk Fri Sep 10 18:51:00 2004 From: mch at cix.compulink.co.uk (Mike Holderness) Date: Fri Sep 10 18:51:47 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Re: Looking for Yahoo style email list Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20040907100110.9A2651E4009@bag.python.org> On Tue, 7 Sep 2004 04:38:23 +0200 Brad Knowles wrote: > At 1:52 PM -0500 2004-09-04, Paul wrote: > > > I am looking for something that can be both an email list and a BBS > > style web page like Yahoo Groups. I want an email list that if the > > user chooses can read and post to the list from a web page like the > > Yahoo Groups. > > Mailman doesn't do this. It'll handle the mailing list side > reasonably well, but the BBS style interface is not included. > > > Can Mailman be adapted? > > Probably. Can you write code in Python? > > > Does an open source solution exist? > > If you find one, please let us know. > > -- I know someone who hacked up just what you want. He wouldn't release it to me, 'cos it "wasn't tidy enough". But I could have another try... Mike From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org Sun Sep 12 18:53:35 2004 From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles) Date: Sun Sep 12 18:53:40 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] VERP and personalization modifications to the headers? Message-ID: Folks, I'm on a mailing list server that has recently upgraded from Mailman 2.0.* to 2.1.5, and in the process of the upgrade, they also enabled full message personalization and VERP. However, certain changes were also made to the way the "To:" and "Cc:" headers were being addressed, and I was wondering if someone could confirm to me where these changes were made. Previously, when receiving a message sent to the list, the "To:" header would be that of the list, and I would be an envelope recipient. Of course, someone could also cc me directly, but that wasn't reflected in the "To:" header. Now, the "To:" header contains my address, and the list address is on the "Cc:" header. As I'm sure you can imagine, this has broken filtering for a number of people. My understanding is that this addressing change is a result of enabling full personalization and VERP, but I'm trying to understand just exactly why it has to be done this way. References to specific sections of specific RFCs would be appreciated. Thanks! -- Brad Knowles, "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755 SAGE member since 1995. See for more info. From claw at kanga.nu Sun Sep 12 19:36:52 2004 From: claw at kanga.nu (J C Lawrence) Date: Sun Sep 12 19:36:55 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] VERP and personalization modifications to the headers? In-Reply-To: Message from Brad Knowles of "Sun, 12 Sep 2004 18:53:35 +0200." References: Message-ID: <12999.1095010612@kanga.nu> On Sun, 12 Sep 2004 18:53:35 +0200 Brad Knowles wrote: > My understanding is that this addressing change is a result of > enabling full personalization and VERP, but I'm trying to understand > just exactly why it has to be done this way. Mailman supports three levels of personalisation: OFF, ON, and FULL. They choose FULL, which in turn created the behaviors you report. ON may have been a better choice. -- J C Lawrence ---------(*) Satan, oscillate my metallic sonatas. claw@kanga.nu He lived as a devil, eh? http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/ Evil is a name of a foeman, as I live. From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org Sun Sep 12 20:58:01 2004 From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles) Date: Sun Sep 12 21:07:23 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] VERP and personalization modifications to the headers? In-Reply-To: <12999.1095010612@kanga.nu> References: <12999.1095010612@kanga.nu> Message-ID: At 1:36 PM -0400 2004-09-12, J C Lawrence wrote: > Mailman supports three levels of personalisation: OFF, ON, and FULL. > They choose FULL, which in turn created the behaviors you report. ON > may have been a better choice. With this list, I think FULL was the correct choice. This is the only way you can get the customized footers, etc... that give you direct links to the appropriate URLs you can click on to manage your subscriptions, etc.... My question is not which type of personalization is better. My question is why does turning on full personalization result in this behaviour? -- Brad Knowles, "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755 SAGE member since 1995. See for more info. From claw at kanga.nu Sun Sep 12 21:18:26 2004 From: claw at kanga.nu (J C Lawrence) Date: Sun Sep 12 21:18:33 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] VERP and personalization modifications to the headers? In-Reply-To: Message from Brad Knowles of "Sun, 12 Sep 2004 20:58:01 +0200." References: <12999.1095010612@kanga.nu> Message-ID: <16253.1095016706@kanga.nu> On Sun, 12 Sep 2004 20:58:01 +0200 Brad Knowles wrote: > At 1:36 PM -0400 2004-09-12, J C Lawrence wrote: >> Mailman supports three levels of personalisation: OFF, ON, and FULL. >> They choose FULL, which in turn created the behaviors you report. ON >> may have been a better choice. > With this list, I think FULL was the correct choice. This is the only > way you can get the customized footers, etc... that give you direct > links to the appropriate URLs you can click on to manage your > subscriptions, etc.... While I haven't checked the implementation, given that the ON mode is doing per-recipient customisation there's no technical reason you couldn't do that in that mode. Which of course leads into" > My question is not which type of personalization is better. My > question is why does turning on full personalization result in this > behaviour? Uhhh....Barry? -- J C Lawrence ---------(*) Satan, oscillate my metallic sonatas. claw@kanga.nu He lived as a devil, eh? http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/ Evil is a name of a foeman, as I live. From tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp Mon Sep 13 04:55:13 2004 From: tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp (Tokio Kikuchi) Date: Mon Sep 13 04:55:44 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] VERP and personalization modifications to the headers? In-Reply-To: References: <12999.1095010612@kanga.nu> Message-ID: <41450C11.2050506@is.kochi-u.ac.jp> > With this list, I think FULL was the correct choice. This is the > only way you can get the customized footers, etc... that give you direct > links to the appropriate URLs you can click on to manage your > subscriptions, etc.... Hi, I get user_optionsurl right in my list footer by setting ON (or was is Yes? 'Hai' in japanese anyway not FULL.) > My question is not which type of personalization is better. My > question is why does turning on full personalization result in this > behaviour? Full personalization means "this doesn't look like mailing list at all", I suppose. -- Tokio Kikuchi, tkikuchi@ is.kochi-u.ac.jp http://weather.is.kochi-u.ac.jp/ From rhlinux_neo at yahoo.com Mon Sep 13 09:37:45 2004 From: rhlinux_neo at yahoo.com (Celine Neo) Date: Mon Sep 13 09:37:49 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Customising member options page Message-ID: <20040913073745.34551.qmail@web90003.mail.scd.yahoo.com> Hi, I want to customise the look and feel of the mm mailing list subscriptions html pages. I have managed to customise pages that is available under the admin screen. For the other pages, for example, members options page cannot be modified so easily. Correct me if I am wrong, I need to modify the .py scripts in Mailman/cgi/ directory and compile it to a binary program file, just like what is in the current mailman/cgi-bin directory. How do I modify the .py files and how do convert it to a binary program file after the modification? Pls help. Thanks Celine __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail From claw at kanga.nu Mon Sep 13 15:49:13 2004 From: claw at kanga.nu (J C Lawrence) Date: Mon Sep 13 15:49:17 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Customising member options page In-Reply-To: Message from Celine Neo of "Mon, 13 Sep 2004 00:37:45 PDT." <20040913073745.34551.qmail@web90003.mail.scd.yahoo.com> References: <20040913073745.34551.qmail@web90003.mail.scd.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <31185.1095083353@kanga.nu> On Mon, 13 Sep 2004 00:37:45 -0700 (PDT) Celine Neo wrote: > How do I modify the .py files... Use a standard text editor. > ... and how do convert it to a binary program file after the > modification? You don't need to. Python will do that itself. -- J C Lawrence ---------(*) Satan, oscillate my metallic sonatas. claw@kanga.nu He lived as a devil, eh? http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/ Evil is a name of a foeman, as I live. From miranda at uranus.com Mon Sep 13 23:25:23 2004 From: miranda at uranus.com (Michael Chang) Date: Mon Sep 13 23:25:32 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Customising member options page In-Reply-To: <31185.1095083353@kanga.nu> Message-ID: On Mon, 13 Sep 2004, J C Lawrence wrote: |> On Mon, 13 Sep 2004 00:37:45 -0700 (PDT) |> Celine Neo wrote: |> |> > How do I modify the .py files... |> |> Use a standard text editor. No hay que contestar as? -- /* BEGIN SIG * * "Afraid of change, afraid of staying the same, * when temptation calls, we just look away." * - Barenaked Ladies * *----------------------------- * Michael Chang * miranda [at] uranus dot com * AIM: Solempathe * http://www.syndetic.org/ */ From barry at python.org Wed Sep 15 17:39:03 2004 From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw) Date: Wed Sep 15 17:39:09 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Please welcome Tokio Kikuchi Message-ID: <1095262743.8612.151.camel@geddy.wooz.org> Hi all, Please all give a warm welcome to Tokio Kikuchi, who has volunteered to help clear the backlog of outstanding bugs and patches for Mailman 2.1. Tokio is a long-time Mailman user and developer -- he has contributed many excellent patches to Mailman and is the champion for the Japanese translation. I greatly appreciate his offer to help, and have given him permission to make commits to the source code tree. This will help me enormously during my current time crunch, and will help free up time to work on Mailman 3. Also, please be nice to him! Bug reports and patches should still always go through SF and be discussed on this list. Cheers, -Barry -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 307 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-developers/attachments/20040915/036b09f9/attachment.pgp From tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp Thu Sep 16 03:47:30 2004 From: tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp (Tokio Kikuchi) Date: Thu Sep 16 03:47:50 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Please welcome Tokio Kikuchi In-Reply-To: <1095262743.8612.151.camel@geddy.wooz.org> References: <1095262743.8612.151.camel@geddy.wooz.org> Message-ID: <4148F0B2.8080703@is.kochi-u.ac.jp> Hi all, Than you Barry for kind introduction. I thought I have more time on Mailman 2.1 than Barry and getting familiar with the python-mailman coding style, so I volunteered. I also have duties on my paid job so please be patient when I have no time. I started to commit minor and easy bug fixes while you can increase the Priority number of your bug reports and patches to catch my eyes. Cheers, Tokio Barry Warsaw wrote: > Hi all, > > Please all give a warm welcome to Tokio Kikuchi, who has volunteered to > help clear the backlog of outstanding bugs and patches for Mailman 2.1. > Tokio is a long-time Mailman user and developer -- he has contributed > many excellent patches to Mailman and is the champion for the Japanese > translation. I greatly appreciate his offer to help, and have given him > permission to make commits to the source code tree. This will help me > enormously during my current time crunch, and will help free up time to > work on Mailman 3. > > Also, please be nice to him! Bug reports and patches should still > always go through SF and be discussed on this list. > > Cheers, > -Barry > -- Tokio Kikuchi, tkikuchi@ is.kochi-u.ac.jp http://weather.is.kochi-u.ac.jp/ From jrhett at meer.net Thu Sep 16 19:20:37 2004 From: jrhett at meer.net (Joe Rhett) Date: Thu Sep 16 19:21:47 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Welcome! Now that you're here, ... In-Reply-To: <4148F0B2.8080703@is.kochi-u.ac.jp> References: <1095262743.8612.151.camel@geddy.wooz.org> <4148F0B2.8080703@is.kochi-u.ac.jp> Message-ID: <20040916172036.GE35770@meer.net> Just FYI I'd like to bring these two patches to your attention: http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&aid=1020672&group_id=103&atid=300103 Many list managers did not want their person e-mail address given out on a public page, even though it was "obscured" and not the actual target of the link. This patch replaces their e-mail address with the -owner link. Another alternative would be to not show that line in the footer page if they want this privacy option. This should probably be a configuration option, but I didn't want to delve that far into the code without getting acceptance of the idea. http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&aid=1021548&group_id=103&atid=300103 This modifies the bounce message for an unsubscribed user to tell them how they can subscribe to the list. Our list owners kept getting frustrated messages from people who wanted to join but didn't know how. On Thu, Sep 16, 2004 at 10:47:30AM +0900, Tokio Kikuchi wrote: > Hi all, > > Than you Barry for kind introduction. I thought I have more time on > Mailman 2.1 than Barry and getting familiar with the python-mailman > coding style, so I volunteered. I also have duties on my paid job so > please be patient when I have no time. I started to commit minor and > easy bug fixes while you can increase the Priority number of your > bug reports and patches to catch my eyes. > > Cheers, > > Tokio > > Barry Warsaw wrote: > > > Hi all, > > > > Please all give a warm welcome to Tokio Kikuchi, who has volunteered to > > help clear the backlog of outstanding bugs and patches for Mailman 2.1. > > Tokio is a long-time Mailman user and developer -- he has contributed > > many excellent patches to Mailman and is the champion for the Japanese > > translation. I greatly appreciate his offer to help, and have given him > > permission to make commits to the source code tree. This will help me > > enormously during my current time crunch, and will help free up time to > > work on Mailman 3. > > > > Also, please be nice to him! Bug reports and patches should still > > always go through SF and be discussed on this list. > > > > Cheers, > > -Barry > > > -- > Tokio Kikuchi, tkikuchi@ is.kochi-u.ac.jp > http://weather.is.kochi-u.ac.jp/ > > _______________________________________________ > Mailman-Developers mailing list > Mailman-Developers@python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers > Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-developers/jrhett%40meer.net -- Joe Rhett Senior Geek Meer.net From msapiro at value.net Sat Sep 18 07:40:37 2004 From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Sat Sep 18 07:40:41 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] 1030228 Mass Subscribe address with control character - can't delete Message-ID: <414BCA55.2000306@value.net> Subject Bug report is posted on sourceforge.net. http://list.org/bugs.html says "It is also recommended that you email a note about your submission to the mailman-developers mailing list", thus this post. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From msapiro at value.net Sun Sep 19 21:54:46 2004 From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Sun Sep 19 21:54:53 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] 1030228 Mass Subscribe address with controlcharacter - can't delete In-Reply-To: <414BCA55.2000306@value.net> Message-ID: Mark Sapiro wrote: >Subject Bug report is posted on sourceforge.net. > >http://list.org/bugs.html says "It is also recommended that you email a >note about your submission to the mailman-developers mailing list", thus >this post. I have two reasons for this followup. First, I neglected to include a direct link to the report in my original post. Here it is. http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=100103&aid=1030228&group_id=103 The second reason is to try to start a discussion on what Mailman should allow in e-mail addresses. I have looked a little more carefully at the standards, but I'm still not sure what they allow. It appears that RFC 2822 (Internet Message Format) allows anything in a domain-literal which "is interpreted as the literal Internet address of the particular host", but that RFC 2821 (SMTP) does not allow a domain-literal to be used at all and is more restrictive than RFC 2822 on other forms of domains as well. Section 2.3.5 of RFC 2821 says in part "A domain (or domain name) consists of one or more dot-separated components. These components ("labels" in DNS terminology) are restricted for SMTP purposes to consist of a sequence of letters, digits, and hyphens drawn from the ASCII character set. With regard to the "user" or local-part of the address, the situation is not so clear. RFC 2821 in section 2.3.10 says in part "(T)he local-part MUST be interpreted and assigned semantics only by the host specified in the domain part of the address." It defines the local-part in the same way as RFC 2822 which allows ascii letters, digits, internal dots (.) and the following !#$%&'*+-/=?^_`{|}~ which is all the "printable" ascii characters except space and "(),:;<>@[\] Both RFCs also allow a local-part to be a quoted-string which can contain almost any ascii character in \001-\177 except \011 \012 \015 and \040 (, , and ), BUT RFC 2821 says in part in section 4.1.2 "Systems MUST NOT define mailboxes in such a way as to require the use in SMTP of non-ASCII characters (octets with the high order bit set to one) or ASCII "control characters" (decimal value 0-31 and 127). These characters MUST NOT be used in MAIL or RCPT commands or other commands that require mailbox names." Thus, it would seem as a practical matter, Mailman should not accept for subscription any address containing any characters in the ranges \000-\037 and \177-\377. Thus I suggest the following, totally untested change: --- mailman-2.1.5/Mailman/Utils.py 2003-12-26 14:50:04.000000000 -0800 +++ mailman-mas/Mailman/Utils.py 2004-09-19 12:49:30.000000000 -0700 @@ -198,7 +198,7 @@ # TBD: what other characters should be disallowed? -_badchars = re.compile(r'[][()<>|;^,/\200-\377]') +_badchars = re.compile(r'[][()<>|;^,/\000-\037\177-\377]') def ValidateEmail(s): """Verify that the an email address isn't grossly evil.""" This still leaves open the question of whether the printable characters in the _badchars RE are the right ones and what to do with quoted-string local-parts, but I think it would prevent my immediate problem from recurring. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org Mon Sep 20 01:53:45 2004 From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles) Date: Mon Sep 20 02:17:48 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] 1030228 Mass Subscribe address with controlcharacter - can't delete In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: At 12:54 PM -0700 2004-09-19, Mark Sapiro wrote: > It appears that RFC 2822 (Internet Message Format) allows anything in a > domain-literal which "is interpreted as the literal Internet address > of the particular host", but that RFC 2821 (SMTP) does not allow a > domain-literal to be used at all and is more restrictive than RFC 2822 > on other forms of domains as well. RFC 2821 is used for envelope addresses in the SMTP dialog, 2822 is used for header addresses. If MTAs want bizarre characters in the recipient addresses, they need to make sure that they get used only in the headers and not the envelope. Where you run into problems is where an address in one format is inappropriately used in the other. -- Brad Knowles, "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755 SAGE member since 1995. See for more info. From tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp Mon Sep 20 02:22:34 2004 From: tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp (Tokio Kikuchi) Date: Mon Sep 20 02:23:11 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] 1030228 Mass Subscribe address with controlcharacter - can't delete In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <414E22CA.20103@is.kochi-u.ac.jp> Hi, Mark Sapiro wrote: > Thus, it would seem as a practical matter, Mailman should not accept > for subscription any address containing any characters in the ranges > \000-\037 and \177-\377. Thus I suggest the following, totally > untested change: > > --- mailman-2.1.5/Mailman/Utils.py 2003-12-26 14:50:04.000000000 > -0800 > +++ mailman-mas/Mailman/Utils.py 2004-09-19 12:49:30.000000000 > -0700 > @@ -198,7 +198,7 @@ > > > # TBD: what other characters should be disallowed? > -_badchars = re.compile(r'[][()<>|;^,/\200-\377]') > +_badchars = re.compile(r'[][()<>|;^,/\000-\037\177-\377]') > > def ValidateEmail(s): > """Verify that the an email address isn't grossly evil.""" This patch looks reasonable and will be merged in CVS soon. Also, I wonder if '/' should be removed from this list. It is X.400 char and long have been asked for allowing. My test with postfix looks like to accept at least in aliases and testing with mailman options interface looks OK. (although a little bit uneasy because mailman cgi separates command options with '/' character.) > > This still leaves open the question of whether the printable characters > in the _badchars RE are the right ones and what to do with > quoted-string local-parts, but I think it would prevent my immediate > problem from recurring. > -- Tokio Kikuchi, tkikuchi@ is.kochi-u.ac.jp http://weather.is.kochi-u.ac.jp/ From msapiro at value.net Mon Sep 20 02:56:35 2004 From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Mon Sep 20 02:56:50 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] 1030228 Mass Subscribe address with controlcharacter- can't delete In-Reply-To: <414E22CA.20103@is.kochi-u.ac.jp> Message-ID: Tokio Kikuchi wrote: >Hi, > >Mark Sapiro wrote: > >> Thus, it would seem as a practical matter, Mailman should not accept >> for subscription any address containing any characters in the ranges >> \000-\037 and \177-\377. Thus I suggest the following, totally >> untested change: >> >> --- mailman-2.1.5/Mailman/Utils.py 2003-12-26 14:50:04.000000000 >> -0800 >> +++ mailman-mas/Mailman/Utils.py 2004-09-19 12:49:30.000000000 >> -0700 >> @@ -198,7 +198,7 @@ >> >> >> # TBD: what other characters should be disallowed? >> -_badchars = re.compile(r'[][()<>|;^,/\200-\377]') >> +_badchars = re.compile(r'[][()<>|;^,/\000-\037\177-\377]') >> >> def ValidateEmail(s): >> """Verify that the an email address isn't grossly evil.""" > >This patch looks reasonable and will be merged in CVS soon. Also, I >wonder if '/' should be removed from this list. It is X.400 char >and long have been asked for allowing. My test with postfix looks >like to accept at least in aliases and testing with mailman options >interface looks OK. (although a little bit uneasy because mailman cgi >separates command options with '/' character.) > I would be more than a bit uneasy about removing the '/' from this list for just that reason. Removing it would allow an address with a '/' to be subscribed or at least to pass this test before being subscribed. The problem that comes immediately to mind is what happens to the links to the user's options page which are of the form http://server/mailman/options/listname/user--at--domain or http://server/mailman/options/listname/user@domain when user contains a '/'? My gut feeling is that allowing the '/' would involve a lot more work than just removing it from the _badchars list. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From msapiro at value.net Mon Sep 20 03:15:20 2004 From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Mon Sep 20 03:15:27 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] 1030228 Mass Subscribe addresswith controlcharacter - can't delete In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Brad Knowles wrote: >At 12:54 PM -0700 2004-09-19, Mark Sapiro wrote: > >> It appears that RFC 2822 (Internet Message Format) allows anything in a >> domain-literal which "is interpreted as the literal Internet address >> of the particular host", but that RFC 2821 (SMTP) does not allow a >> domain-literal to be used at all and is more restrictive than RFC 2822 >> on other forms of domains as well. > > RFC 2821 is used for envelope addresses in the SMTP dialog, 2822 >is used for header addresses. If MTAs want bizarre characters in the >recipient addresses, they need to make sure that they get used only >in the headers and not the envelope. Where you run into problems is >where an address in one format is inappropriately used in the other. Thanks for the clarification Brad. I had missed that concept. The crux here seems to be that since subscribed addresses are ultimately going to end up as envelope to addresses, they need to meet the requirements that RFC 2821 places on the content of RCPT commands, namely they must not contain non-ascii characters or ascii control characters. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp Mon Sep 20 07:06:56 2004 From: tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp (Tokio Kikuchi) Date: Mon Sep 20 07:07:17 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] 1030228 Mass Subscribe address with controlcharacter- can't delete In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <414E6570.3050208@is.kochi-u.ac.jp> Hi, > I would be more than a bit uneasy about removing the '/' from this list > for just that reason. Removing it would allow an address with a '/' to > be subscribed or at least to pass this test before being subscribed. > > The problem that comes immediately to mind is what happens to the links > to the user's options page which are of the form > http://server/mailman/options/listname/user--at--domain or > http://server/mailman/options/listname/user@domain when user contains > a '/'? Problem was that '/' is not allowed to use in cookies. I will generate a patch to fix this and upload in SF for the developers to check. > My gut feeling is that allowing the '/' would involve a lot more work > than just removing it from the _badchars list. -- Tokio Kikuchi, tkikuchi@ is.kochi-u.ac.jp http://weather.is.kochi-u.ac.jp/ From gustavorfranco at gmail.com Mon Sep 20 22:24:34 2004 From: gustavorfranco at gmail.com (Gustavo Franco) Date: Mon Sep 20 22:24:42 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Limiting numbers of members per list. Message-ID: <5fabd6fd04092013242240a1ab@mail.gmail.com> Hi list, I'm new here and i've tried to start sending a patch[0] to control the number of members per list.Can anyone check that? I keep it small as possible to see if the "engine" is right.I need your feedback, because i'm interested in contribute with more related features as described/requested on RFE #403310. [0] - #1029275 at sf.net Hope that helps, Gustavo Franco Information Network for the Third Sector http://www.rits.org.br From claw at kanga.nu Tue Sep 21 05:24:01 2004 From: claw at kanga.nu (J C Lawrence) Date: Tue Sep 21 05:24:04 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] 8bit and NNTP gateway Message-ID: <16569.1095737041@kanga.nu> Are there any extant tools to detect 8bit mail (identified by a Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit or not) and to suitably transform the affected MIME parts (or base message if no MIME) to quoted-printable? I'm running an NNTP gateway to CNEWS and am running into problems with 8bit mail being rejected by the NNTP gateway after being accepted and otherwise broadcast by Mailman. I can write a script to do the needed transformations, but handling the general MIME case is a bit messy and something I'd like to avoid. Has anybody resolved this area? I note that Mailman itself doesn't seem to touch it.xc -- J C Lawrence ---------(*) Satan, oscillate my metallic sonatas. claw@kanga.nu He lived as a devil, eh? http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/ Evil is a name of a foeman, as I live. From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org Tue Sep 21 10:14:10 2004 From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles) Date: Tue Sep 21 10:36:31 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] 8bit and NNTP gateway In-Reply-To: <16569.1095737041@kanga.nu> References: <16569.1095737041@kanga.nu> Message-ID: At 11:24 PM -0400 2004-09-20, J C Lawrence wrote: > Are there any extant tools to detect 8bit mail (identified by a > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit or not) and to suitably transform the > affected MIME parts (or base message if no MIME) to quoted-printable? The easy way to handle this is to configure your MTA so that it thinks that it is 7-bit only, and it should do the conversion for you. Sendmail certainly does this, and I'm pretty sure postfix does too. Not sure about any of the others. The only other alternative I know of would be to hack the gateway code in Mailman so that it does the conversion. -- Brad Knowles, "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755 SAGE member since 1995. See for more info. From claw at kanga.nu Tue Sep 21 15:38:41 2004 From: claw at kanga.nu (J C Lawrence) Date: Tue Sep 21 15:38:45 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] 8bit and NNTP gateway In-Reply-To: Message from Brad Knowles of "Tue, 21 Sep 2004 10:14:10 +0200." References: <16569.1095737041@kanga.nu> Message-ID: <30674.1095773921@kanga.nu> On Tue, 21 Sep 2004 10:14:10 +0200 Brad Knowles wrote: > At 11:24 PM -0400 2004-09-20, J C Lawrence wrote: >> Are there any extant tools to detect 8bit mail (identified by a >> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit or not) and to suitably transform the >> affected MIME parts (or base message if no MIME) to quoted-printable? > The easy way to handle this is to configure your MTA so that it thinks > that it is 7-bit only, and it should do the conversion for you. Exim alas does not fall in that camp, and I need to use Exim as versus Postfix due to the fine grained control it offers over executing UID/GID for filters. Sendmail and QMail are not a reasonable consideration for this case. > Sendmail certainly does this, and I'm pretty sure postfix does too. > Not sure about any of the others. The closest I've found for the Exim world is: http://www.exim.org/pipermail/exim-users/Week-of-Mon-20020916/043866.html > The only other alternative I know of would be to hack the gateway code > in Mailman so that it does the conversion. The Mailman code for news injection is rather generous in terms of what it accepts on the inbound side, and does remarkably little to fix errors or enforce correctness. My current hack for properly handling NNTP injection looks something like: ---- #!/usr/bin/python import os, email, email.Utils, re, sys, string, time, nntplib, optparse from StringIO import StringIO _error = """ Exception: %s Error: %s -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= %s -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= """ parser = optparse.OptionParser () parser.add_option ("-s", "--server", dest = "nntp_server", help = "NNTP server to post to", metavar = "SERVER") parser.add_option ("-p", "--port", type = 'int', dest = "nntp_port", help = "Port on NNTP server to post to", metavar = "PORT") parser.add_option ("-U", "--user", dest = "nntp_user", help = "Authentication user on NNTP server", metavar = "USER" ) parser.add_option ("-P", "--password", dest = "nntp_password", help = "Authentication password on NNTP server", metavar = "PASSWORD") parser.add_option ("-m", "--mode", type = 'int', default = 0, dest = "nntp_mode", help = "Set reader mode on NNTP server?", metavar = "MODE") parser.add_option ("-a", "--approved", dest = "approved", help = "Value of Approved: header to add", metavar = "APPROVE D") parser.add_option ("-g", "--group", dest = "newsgroup", help = "Newsgroup[s] to post to", metavar = "NEWSGROUP") parser.add_option("-d", "--debug", action = "store_true", dest = "debug", default = False, help = "Print debug messages") #parser.add_option("-v", "--verbose", # action = "store_false", dest = "verbose", default = False, # help = "Verbose operation") (options, args) = parser.parse_args() def debug ( opt, str): """ Output if in debug mode. """ if opt.debug: print str #debug (options, options) re_continuation = re.compile ('^\s+(\S.*)$') re_empty = re.compile ('^\s*$') re_envelope = re.compile ('^From ') ndx = 0 headers = [] body = [] current = headers inbody = 0 # Read message in headers line and body list for line in sys.stdin.readlines (): rc = re_empty.search (line) # End of headers or hit separator if inbody or rc != None: # End of headers or hit separator inbody = True body.append (line) continue rc = re_continuation.search (line) # Header continuation if rc: headers[-1] += ' ' + rc.group (1).strip () continue if line.startswith ('From '): headers.append ("X-Envelope-From: " + line[4:]) continue headers.append (line.strip ()) # Fix up headers to be suitable for NNTP headers_out = [] headers_noted = {} for hdr in headers: # Extract name/value ndx = hdr.find (':') # Can't use split as there may be other colons n = hdr[:ndx].strip () v = hdr[ndx + 1:].strip () # Some header names require special casing per the RFC. n = string.capitalize (n) cased_headers = { 'Message-id' : 'Message-ID', 'Relay-version' : 'Relay-Version', 'Posting-version' : 'Posting-Version', 'Reply-to' : 'Reply-To', 'In-reply-to' : 'In-Reply-To', 'Followup-to' : 'Followup-To', 'Date-received' : 'Date-Received', 'newsgroups' : 'newsgroups', 'Content-type' : 'Content-Type', 'Content-transfer-encoding' : 'Content-Transfer-Encoding', } if n in cased_headers.keys (): n = cased_headers[n] # Remove illegal headers that just shouldn't be there. bad_headers = ['NNTP-Posting-Host', 'NNTP-Posting-Date',] if n in bad_headers: continue # Prepend X- to unprotected headers protected_headers = ['From', 'Date', 'Subject', 'Path', 'Relay-version', 'Posting-version', 'Newsgroups', 'Message-id', 'Reply-to', 'Sender', 'Followup-to', 'Date-received', 'Expires', 'References', 'Distribution', 'Organization', 'Approved', 'Mime-Version' ] if n not in protected_headers and not n.startswith ('X-'): n = "X-" + n # Remember the values of special headers for later processing special_headers = [ 'From', 'Message-ID', 'Path', 'References', 'In-Reply-To', 'Date', 'newsgroups', 'Subject', 'Content-Transfer-Encoding', ] if n in special_headers: headers_noted[n] = v # We need to suppress some headers so that we can have a chance to fix # them up later. suppressed_headers = [ 'Message-ID', 'Content-Transfer-Encoding' ] # We need to specially process Message-ID later (format fixups), # so don't add it to the headers out yet. if n in suppressed_headers: continue # Already stashed in headers_noted # Leave everything else untouched headers_out.append ("%s: %s\n" % (n ,v)) # Missing From? if not headers_noted.has_key ('From'): v = 'unknown@somewhere' headers_noted['From'] = v headers_out.append ('From: ' + v + '\n') # Make a (new) Path as needed if not headers_noted.has_key ('Path'): v = headers_noted['From'] a, b = email.Utils.parseaddr (v)[1].split ('@') headers_out.append ('Path: %s!%s\n' % (b, a)) # Fix References header from In-Reply-To if not headers_noted.has_key ('References') \ and headers_noted.has_key ('In-Reply-To'): v = headers_noted['In-Reply-To'] v = email.Utils.parseaddr (v)[1] headers_out.append ('References: <' + v + '>\n') # Missing Date? if not headers_noted.has_key ('Date'): debug (options, 'Missing date fixed.') headers_out.append ('Date: ' + email.Utils.formatdate (time.time (), 1) + '\n' ) # Missing Subject? if not headers_noted.has_key ('Subject'): debug (options, 'Missing subject fixed.') headers_out.append ('Subject: (subject missing)\n') # Fix Message-ID and fieldname case (adding if needed) if not headers_noted.has_key ('Message-ID'): headers_noted['Message-ID'] = email.Utils.make_msgid () v = headers_noted['Message-ID'] if not v.find ('<') < v.find ('>'): # Message-ID: headers_out.append ('X-orig-Message-ID: ' + v + '\n') v = email.Utils.parseaddr (v)[1] headers_out.append ('Message-ID: <' + v + '>\n') # Fix or add newsgroups header v = None if headers_noted.has_key ('newsgroups'): v = headers_noted['newsgroups'] if not v: # Just add the one from the CLI headers_out.append ('newsgroups: ' + options.newsgroup + '\n') else: # Check the newsgroups header for the group already being present groups = v.split (',') found = 0 for group in groups: group = group.strip () if options.newsgroup == group: found = 1 if not found: headers_out.append ('newsgroups: ' + v.strip () + ', ' + options.newsgroup + '\n') # Add an approved header if requested if hasattr (options, 'approved'): headers_out.append ('Approved: ' + options.approved + '\n') # Re-assemble message out_f = StringIO () for line in headers_out: out_f.write (line) out_f.write ('\n') for line in body: out_f.write (line) out_f.seek (0) if options.debug: debug (options, "Not sending.") debug (options, out_f.getvalue ()) sys.exit (0) try: debug (options, 'Server: %s Port: %s User: %s Password: %s Mode: %s' % (options.nntp_server, options.nntp_port, options.nntp_user, options.nntp_password, options.nntp_mode)) server = nntplib.NNTP (options.nntp_server, options.nntp_port, options.nntp_user, options.nntp_password, options.nntp_mode) server.post (out_f) server.quit () except (nntplib.NNTPError), message: debug (options, 'Message: ' + repr (message) + '\n' + _error % sys.exc_info () ) raise message sys.exit (2) sys.exit (0) ---- This was originally written to inject old archives into a news spool, for which it works rather well modulo a few caveats discussed below. About the only other thing which ended up needing to be done for archive injection was to comment out the date check in your copy of inews so that the old mail being freshly injected wasn't bounced for having a stale date. Strengths of the script are that it enforces and fixes/generates header correctness in multiple areas (case, presence etc), preserves all prior headers (esp Received:) for debugging/tracing downstream, unfolds continued header lines for older/more fragile News servers downstream, and generally tries to be very generous in terms of what it will accept and rather pedantically picky in terms of what it will emit. Known weaknesses are that it's fragile on incorrect or missing CLI arguments, email.Utils.parseaddr() has known problems with addresses which contain parenthesis in the GECOS field, and it doesn't begin to handle the 7/8bit problem yet. -- J C Lawrence ---------(*) Satan, oscillate my metallic sonatas. claw@kanga.nu He lived as a devil, eh? http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/ Evil is a name of a foeman, as I live. From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org Tue Sep 21 16:11:42 2004 From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles) Date: Tue Sep 21 16:15:31 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] 8bit and NNTP gateway In-Reply-To: <30674.1095773921@kanga.nu> References: <16569.1095737041@kanga.nu> <30674.1095773921@kanga.nu> Message-ID: At 9:38 AM -0400 2004-09-21, J C Lawrence wrote: > Exim alas does not fall in that camp, and I need to use Exim as versus > Postfix due to the fine grained control it offers over executing UID/GID > for filters. Sendmail and QMail are not a reasonable consideration for > this case. You might also be able to run messages through procmail, and use it to change the encoding for you. Other than that, I don't think I've got any useful suggestions for you. -- Brad Knowles, "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755 SAGE member since 1995. See for more info. From claw at kanga.nu Tue Sep 21 16:19:41 2004 From: claw at kanga.nu (J C Lawrence) Date: Tue Sep 21 16:19:44 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] 8bit and NNTP gateway In-Reply-To: Message from Brad Knowles of "Tue, 21 Sep 2004 16:11:42 +0200." References: <16569.1095737041@kanga.nu> <30674.1095773921@kanga.nu> Message-ID: <1783.1095776381@kanga.nu> On Tue, 21 Sep 2004 16:11:42 +0200 Brad Knowles wrote: > At 9:38 AM -0400 2004-09-21, J C Lawrence wrote: >> Exim alas does not fall in that camp, and I need to use Exim as >> versus Postfix due to the fine grained control it offers over >> executing UID/GID for filters. Sendmail and QMail are not a >> reasonable consideration for this case. > You might also be able to run messages through procmail, and use it to > change the encoding for you. That's what I've been expecting, however I've not found a decent canned recipe and getting the filter right to handle all the various MIME cases is not trivial. -- J C Lawrence ---------(*) Satan, oscillate my metallic sonatas. claw@kanga.nu He lived as a devil, eh? http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/ Evil is a name of a foeman, as I live. From Dale at Newfield.org Tue Sep 21 16:33:43 2004 From: Dale at Newfield.org (Dale Newfield) Date: Tue Sep 21 16:33:46 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] 8bit and NNTP gateway In-Reply-To: <30674.1095773921@kanga.nu> References: <16569.1095737041@kanga.nu> <30674.1095773921@kanga.nu> Message-ID: On Tue, 21 Sep 2004, J C Lawrence wrote: > > The easy way to handle this is to configure your MTA so that it thinks > > that it is 7-bit only, and it should do the conversion for you. > > Exim alas does not fall in that camp, and I need to use Exim as versus > Postfix due to the fine grained control it offers over executing UID/GID > for filters. Sendmail and QMail are not a reasonable consideration for > this case. Any possibility of using Exim in general, but putting a proxy configured sendmail between it (on another port/interface) and mailman just to get this one side effect? -Dale From claw at kanga.nu Tue Sep 21 16:43:21 2004 From: claw at kanga.nu (J C Lawrence) Date: Tue Sep 21 16:43:24 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] 8bit and NNTP gateway In-Reply-To: Message from Dale Newfield of "Tue, 21 Sep 2004 10:33:43 EDT." References: <16569.1095737041@kanga.nu> <30674.1095773921@kanga.nu> Message-ID: <3901.1095777801@kanga.nu> On Tue, 21 Sep 2004 10:33:43 -0400 (EDT) Dale Newfield wrote: > Any possibility of using Exim in general, but putting a proxy > configured sendmail between it (on another port/interface) and mailman > just to get this one side effect? Umm, ewwwwww. Yeah, it would work, but I suspect it would be easier and more maintainable to just steal the code from Sendmail that does the translation and drop it into a filter under Exim. -- J C Lawrence ---------(*) Satan, oscillate my metallic sonatas. claw@kanga.nu He lived as a devil, eh? http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/ Evil is a name of a foeman, as I live. From jdennis at redhat.com Tue Sep 21 17:00:22 2004 From: jdennis at redhat.com (John Dennis) Date: Tue Sep 21 17:00:38 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] 8bit and NNTP gateway In-Reply-To: <30674.1095773921@kanga.nu> References: <16569.1095737041@kanga.nu> <30674.1095773921@kanga.nu> Message-ID: <1095778822.13321.2.camel@finch.boston.redhat.com> On Tue, 2004-09-21 at 09:38, J C Lawrence wrote: > Exim alas does not fall in that camp, and I need to use Exim as versus > Postfix due to the fine grained control it offers over executing UID/GID > for filters. Sendmail and QMail are not a reasonable consideration for > this case. Out of curiosity could you elaborate on UID/GID constraints which prevent you from using a postfix/mailman combination? -- John Dennis From claw at kanga.nu Tue Sep 21 17:09:21 2004 From: claw at kanga.nu (J C Lawrence) Date: Tue Sep 21 17:09:24 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] 8bit and NNTP gateway In-Reply-To: Message from John Dennis of "Tue, 21 Sep 2004 11:00:22 EDT." <1095778822.13321.2.camel@finch.boston.redhat.com> References: <16569.1095737041@kanga.nu> <30674.1095773921@kanga.nu> <1095778822.13321.2.camel@finch.boston.redhat.com> Message-ID: <6132.1095779361@kanga.nu> On Tue, 21 Sep 2004 11:00:22 -0400 John Dennis wrote: > On Tue, 2004-09-21 at 09:38, J C Lawrence wrote: >> Exim alas does not fall in that camp, and I need to use Exim as >> versus Postfix due to the fine grained control it offers over >> executing UID/GID for filters. Sendmail and QMail are not a >> reasonable consideration for this case. > Out of curiosity could you elaborate on UID/GID constraints which > prevent you from using a postfix/mailman combination? While things have moved on slightly, the details are still pretty similar to the details I posted to the User FAQ a few years back (see the stuff about TMDA etc). Essentially I run a moderately complex filter system in front of Mailman and various other accounts which requires explicitly defining and controlling the UID and GID as well as the assumed environment (${HOME}, shell context etc) that procmail and other scripts are executed under. Commonly that UID/GID is not an obvious function of the LHS of the address, but rather an arbitrary special case mapping. I can reach the same end under Postfix as of last I checked via vhosts and maps, but that would require also changing my MX and address architecture which I'm not prepared to do. -- J C Lawrence ---------(*) Satan, oscillate my metallic sonatas. claw@kanga.nu He lived as a devil, eh? http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/ Evil is a name of a foeman, as I live. From bscott at pps.k12.or.us Wed Sep 22 21:59:48 2004 From: bscott at pps.k12.or.us (Bev Scott) Date: Wed Sep 22 22:00:17 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] combine list Message-ID: Hello, I have three lists. The list are moderated list. Only certain staff members can send to them. I add all-list@pps.k12.or.us as a admin and a moderator of the list. list1 list2 list3 We would like to make an alias called all-list all-list: list1@mailman.pps.k12.or.us, list2@mailman.pps.k12.or.us, list3@mailman.pps.k12.or.us what happens when I send to the all-list@pps.k12.or.us the message gets sent to the vette file in the logs (message is "has implicit destination") and get saved in the Tend to pending moderator requests Is there anyway that I can get this to work? Bev Bev Scott Web Database Portland Public Schools 503-916-2000 4966 bscott@pps.k12.or.us From ianb at colorstudy.com Wed Sep 22 22:40:59 2004 From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking) Date: Wed Sep 22 22:41:34 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] combine list In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4151E35B.5000704@colorstudy.com> Bev Scott wrote: > I have three lists. > > The list are moderated list. Only certain staff members can send to > them. I add all-list@pps.k12.or.us as a admin and a moderator of the > list. > > list1 > list2 > list3 > > We would like to make an alias called all-list > all-list: list1@mailman.pps.k12.or.us, list2@mailman.pps.k12.or.us, > list3@mailman.pps.k12.or.us Instead, you might create a list "all-list", which has those three lists as subscribers. -- Ian Bicking / ianb@colorstudy.com / http://blog.ianbicking.org From jwblist at olympus.net Thu Sep 23 02:57:03 2004 From: jwblist at olympus.net (John W. Baxter) Date: Thu Sep 23 02:57:19 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] 8bit and NNTP gateway In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 9/21/2004 1:14, "Brad Knowles" wrote: > At 11:24 PM -0400 2004-09-20, J C Lawrence wrote: > >> Are there any extant tools to detect 8bit mail (identified by a >> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit or not) and to suitably transform the >> affected MIME parts (or base message if no MIME) to quoted-printable? > > The easy way to handle this is to configure your MTA so that it > thinks that it is 7-bit only, and it should do the conversion for > you. Sendmail certainly does this, and I'm pretty sure postfix does > too. Not sure about any of the others. Exim by default is configured to not advertise 8BITMIME and to reject offered 8 bit messages. It doesn't try to transcode. And since it doesn't, it can't accept 8 bit messages for relay since it would have to do the conversion if the relay target doesn't accept 8 bit. If that's an issue in a given installation, then Exim is the wrong MTA choice. Exim is unlikely to be taught to do the conversions. --John From jwt at OnJapan.net Thu Sep 23 03:24:33 2004 From: jwt at OnJapan.net (Jim Tittsler) Date: Thu Sep 23 03:23:55 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] combine list In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040923012433.GI12386@server.onjapan.net> On Wed, Sep 22, 2004 at 12:59:48PM -0700, Bev Scott wrote: > The list are moderated list. Only certain staff members can send to > them. I add all-list@pps.k12.or.us as a admin and a moderator of the > list. > > list1 > list2 > list3 > > We would like to make an alias called all-list > all-list: list1@mailman.pps.k12.or.us, list2@mailman.pps.k12.or.us, > list3@mailman.pps.k12.or.us > > what happens when I send to the all-list@pps.k12.or.us > > the message gets sent to the vette file in the logs (message > is "has implicit destination") and get saved in the Tend to > pending moderator requests You can add 'all-list@pps.k12.or.us' to the acceptable_aliases option on the Privacy options... Recipient filters... page of each of list1, list2, and list3 to have 'all-list' be recognized as an acceptable destination. -- Jim Tittsler http://www.OnJapan.net/ GPG: 0x01159DB6 Python Starship http://Starship.Python.net/ Ringo MUG Tokyo http://www.ringo.net/rss.html From claw at kanga.nu Thu Sep 23 07:22:00 2004 From: claw at kanga.nu (J C Lawrence) Date: Thu Sep 23 07:22:03 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] 8bit and NNTP gateway In-Reply-To: Message from "John W. Baxter" of "Wed, 22 Sep 2004 17:57:03 PDT." References: Message-ID: <21398.1095916920@kanga.nu> On Wed, 22 Sep 2004 17:57:03 -0700 John W Baxter wrote: > On 9/21/2004 1:14, "Brad Knowles" wrote: >> At 11:24 PM -0400 2004-09-20, J C Lawrence wrote: >>> Are there any extant tools to detect 8bit mail (identified by a >>> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit or not) and to suitably transform >>> the affected MIME parts (or base message if no MIME) to >>> quoted-printable? >> The easy way to handle this is to configure your MTA so that it >> thinks that it is 7-bit only, and it should do the conversion for >> you. Sendmail certainly does this, and I'm pretty sure postfix does >> too. Not sure about any of the others. > Exim by default is configured to not advertise 8BITMIME and to reject > offered 8 bit messages. It doesn't try to transcode. The actual background for the problem is that I have 8bit messages in my archives that I need to import into newsgroups. > And since it doesn't, it can't accept 8 bit messages for relay since > it would have to do the conversion if the relay target doesn't accept > 8 bit. Much as you identify, I can prevent the problem from occurring via Exim in future. My problem is the archives and any other potential message acquisition paths which don't pass through Exim, and yet which will need both NNTP injection and broadcast via Mailman and Exim. > If that's an issue in a given installation, then Exim is the wrong MTA > choice. Exim is unlikely to be taught to do the conversions. That's where filters come in. -- J C Lawrence ---------(*) Satan, oscillate my metallic sonatas. claw@kanga.nu He lived as a devil, eh? http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/ Evil is a name of a foeman, as I live. From wheakory at isu.edu Fri Sep 24 18:50:55 2004 From: wheakory at isu.edu (Kory Wheatley) Date: Fri Sep 24 18:54:49 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] SCRUBBER Question Message-ID: <4154506F.9030204@isu.edu> I have Scrubber enabled on my Mailman 2.1.5 configuration. It works fine stripping the attachments, except, why does it change a Microsoft Word extension ".doc" to a ".bin"? This makes it difficult to open the attachment, because you have to either save it to your hard drive and associate the file to open in the correct program, or choose which program to open it with. Why doesn't Scrubber just leave it at .doc and then when you click on the stripped attachment link, wouldn't it know to bring up the correct application and display the file? Or would it thing the content type is HTML? Any solutions or work around. Please respond this is critical that I know if there is something I can do. -- Kory Wheatley Academic Computing Analyst Sr. Phone 282-3874 ######################################### Everything must point to him. From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org Fri Sep 24 22:43:28 2004 From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles) Date: Fri Sep 24 22:48:12 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] SCRUBBER Question In-Reply-To: <4154506F.9030204@isu.edu> References: <4154506F.9030204@isu.edu> Message-ID: At 10:50 AM -0600 2004-09-24, Kory Wheatley wrote: > I have Scrubber enabled on my Mailman 2.1.5 configuration. It works > fine stripping the attachments, except, why does it change a Microsoft > Word extension ".doc" to a ".bin"? Because leaving it as a ".doc" file is dangerous. > Any solutions or work around. Please respond this is critical that I > know if there is something I can do. Keep in mind that this is a volunteer open source project. If you've got anything that is critical, you need to consider support issues as part of your decision as to what to use. -- Brad Knowles, "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755 SAGE member since 1995. See for more info. From msapiro at value.net Fri Sep 24 22:55:12 2004 From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Fri Sep 24 22:55:18 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] SCRUBBER Question In-Reply-To: <4154506F.9030204@isu.edu> Message-ID: Kory Wheatley wrote: >I have Scrubber enabled on my Mailman 2.1.5 configuration. It works >fine stripping the attachments, except, why does it change a Microsoft >Word extension ".doc" to a ".bin"? This makes it difficult to open the >attachment, because you have to either save it to your hard drive and >associate the file to open in the correct program, or choose which >program to open it with. Why doesn't Scrubber just leave it at .doc >and then when you click on the stripped attachment link, wouldn't it >know to bring up the correct application and display the file? Or would >it thing the content type is HTML? That depends on what content-type your web server associates with .doc extensions. >Any solutions or work around. Please respond this is critical that I >know if there is something I can do. You might try putting a .htaccess file in archives/private/listname or in archives/private/listname/attachments with a AddType application/msword bin directive in it. Depending on your web server and browser, this may work, but if it does it will then try to open any .bin attachment with msword which will be a problem if you have any non-msword attachments that get saved with "bin" extensions. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From rmg at terc.edu Fri Sep 24 23:42:47 2004 From: rmg at terc.edu (Robby Griffin) Date: Fri Sep 24 23:42:50 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] SCRUBBER Question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Friday, Sep 24, 2004, at 16:55 US/Eastern, Mark Sapiro wrote: > You might try putting a .htaccess file in archives/private/listname or > in archives/private/listname/attachments with a > > AddType application/msword bin > > directive in it. Depending on your web server and browser, this may > work, but if it does it will then try to open any .bin attachment with > msword which will be a problem if you have any non-msword attachments > that get saved with "bin" extensions. This is pretty lame. I run Mailman in an environment where most of the users use Lotus Notes on Macs, and in our case Mailman converted the vast majority of their attachments to .bin or .obj because Notes sent most things as application/octet-stream. PDF file? .bin. Excel file? .bin. Word doc? .bin. Argh. Users can NOT figure out how to open these files (or even what application they were supposed to have been openable in) after getting them from the archives. Most of them had Stuffit Expander launch automatically (on the .bin file, duhr) and were generally confused. I operate under the assumption that Apache knows more about MIME types and extension mappings than Mailman does, so I hacked my Scrubber.py to avoid ever altering the extensions of attachments. Note that if you do this you have to be careful not to let the webserver do any server-side processing on any files in the archiver attachment area. It's also useful to make the default type for files of unrecognized extension be application/octet-stream so that they don't display in the browser -- this is done in .htaccess for public archives and in private.py for private archives. I'll come up with a patch if anyone wants it, but seriously, YMMV, a lot. --Robby From rmg at terc.edu Sat Sep 25 00:04:02 2004 From: rmg at terc.edu (Robby Griffin) Date: Sat Sep 25 00:04:04 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] SCRUBBER Question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Friday, Sep 24, 2004, at 16:43 US/Eastern, Brad Knowles wrote: > At 10:50 AM -0600 2004-09-24, Kory Wheatley wrote: > >> I have Scrubber enabled on my Mailman 2.1.5 configuration. It works >> fine stripping the attachments, except, why does it change a >> Microsoft >> Word extension ".doc" to a ".bin"? > > Because leaving it as a ".doc" file is dangerous. Get real. It changes the extension not because .doc files are dangerous but because the sender simply failed to use Mailman's idea of the proper MIME type for a .doc file. You can of course get Mailman to leave a .doc file as a .doc file by sending it in with a content-type of application/msword. This just turns out to be unlikely in practice because MUAs have limited knowledge of proper MIME types. --Robby From msapiro at value.net Sat Sep 25 00:03:51 2004 From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Sat Sep 25 00:04:05 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] SCRUBBER Question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Robby Griffin wrote: > >This is pretty lame. I run Mailman in an environment where most of the >users use Lotus Notes on Macs, and in our case Mailman converted the >vast majority of their attachments to .bin or .obj because Notes sent >most things as application/octet-stream. PDF file? .bin. Excel file? >..bin. Word doc? .bin. Argh. Users can NOT figure out how to open these >files (or even what application they were supposed to have been >openable in) after getting them from the archives. Most of them had >Stuffit Expander launch automatically (on the .bin file, duhr) and were >generally confused. I agree, but why is Lotus Notes sending PDFs, etc. as application/octet-stream instead of application/pdf, etc? -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From msapiro at value.net Sat Sep 25 00:27:13 2004 From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Sat Sep 25 00:27:25 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] SCRUBBER Question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Robby Griffin wrote: > >Get real. It changes the extension not because .doc files are dangerous >but because the sender simply failed to use Mailman's idea of the >proper MIME type for a .doc file. You can of course get Mailman to >leave a .doc file as a .doc file by sending it in with a content-type >of application/msword. This just turns out to be unlikely in practice >because MUAs have limited knowledge of proper MIME types. So Mailman should dumb itself down to the level of these MUAs? Even Popcorn, my Windows client of choice, which is a fully self contained (except for a small initialization file) compressed executable 118KB in size, knows the proper MIME content-type for most common file types. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From bscott at pps.k12.or.us Sat Sep 25 00:59:53 2004 From: bscott at pps.k12.or.us (Bev Scott) Date: Sat Sep 25 01:00:41 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] limt people sending to list to only people who have @pps.k12.or.us in their email address Message-ID: Hi Jim Thank for your help that works great now. Another question is there away to limit email coming to the list to a certain domain for example Only except email coming from @pps.k12.or.us with out adding the person email id. Bev On Wed, Sep 22, 2004 at 12:59:48PM -0700, Bev Scott wrote: > The list are moderated list. Only certain staff members can send to > them. I add all-list@pps.k12.or.us as a admin and a moderator of the > list. > > list1 > list2 > list3 > > We would like to make an alias called all-list > all-list: list1@mailman.pps.k12.or.us, list2@mailman.pps.k12.or.us, > list3@mailman.pps.k12.or.us > > what happens when I send to the all-list@pps.k12.or.us > > the message gets sent to the vette file in the logs (message > is "has implicit destination") and get saved in the Tend to > pending moderator requests You can add 'all-list@pps.k12.or.us' to the acceptable_aliases option on the Privacy options... Recipient filters... page of each of list1, list2, and list3 to have 'all-list' be recognized as an acceptable destination. -- Jim Tittsler http://www.OnJapan.net/ GPG: 0x01159DB6 Python Starship http://Starship.Python.net/ Ringo MUG Tokyo http://www.ringo.net/rss.html Bev Scott Web Database Portland Public Schools 503-916-2000 4966 bscott@pps.k12.or.us Bev Scott Web Database Portland Public Schools 503-916-2000 4966 bscott@pps.k12.or.us From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org Sat Sep 25 01:07:33 2004 From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles) Date: Sat Sep 25 01:07:44 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] SCRUBBER Question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: At 6:04 PM -0400 2004-09-24, Robby Griffin wrote: >> Because leaving it as a ".doc" file is dangerous. > > Get real. It changes the extension not because .doc files are dangerous > but because the sender simply failed to use Mailman's idea of the proper > MIME type for a .doc file. Leaving it as a ".doc" file when the MIME bodypart type does not match the claimed extension *is* dangerous. -- Brad Knowles, "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755 SAGE member since 1995. See for more info. From rmg at terc.edu Sat Sep 25 01:34:17 2004 From: rmg at terc.edu (Robby Griffin) Date: Sat Sep 25 01:34:20 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] SCRUBBER Question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <40718528-0E82-11D9-ABA9-00039383CAAE@terc.edu> On Friday, Sep 24, 2004, at 18:27 US/Eastern, Mark Sapiro wrote: > Robby Griffin wrote: >> >> Get real. It changes the extension not because .doc files are >> dangerous >> but because the sender simply failed to use Mailman's idea of the >> proper MIME type for a .doc file. You can of course get Mailman to >> leave a .doc file as a .doc file by sending it in with a content-type >> of application/msword. This just turns out to be unlikely in practice >> because MUAs have limited knowledge of proper MIME types. > > So Mailman should dumb itself down to the level of these MUAs? > > Even Popcorn, my Windows client of choice, which is a fully self > contained (except for a small initialization file) compressed > executable 118KB in size, knows the proper MIME content-type for most > common file types. Well, whether it's common isn't really the issue. I meant that in general Alice's MUA does not have knowledge of what MIME types Bob's Mailman will accept (meaning, handle gracefully in archives) for a .foo file. I'd rather Mailman be liberal, not dumb, but it seems to amount to the same thing here. Suppose that all MIME types used by all software are standardized and developed along a single timeline. If Mailman gets ahead of an MUA in terms of the set of MIME types it accepts, then senders won't be using the proper types yet and confusion will result if anyone sends attachments using the old types (in particular, their MUA's default type for unrecognized extensions). If Mailman lags behind an MUA then users may send using the new types that Mailman doesn't yet accept and confusion will result. And of course if there are multiple timelines of development or nonstandard MIME types in some software, then confusion will result from the differing sets of MIME types known to each piece of software at any given time. I'm not convinced this is a feature, it just seems so fragile. --Robby From msapiro at value.net Sat Sep 25 01:37:38 2004 From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Sat Sep 25 01:37:43 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] limt people sending to list to only people whohave @pps.k12.or.us in their email address In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Bev Scott wrote: > >Another question is there away to limit email coming to the list to a >certain domain for example >Only except email coming from @pps.k12.or.us with out adding the person >email id. the regular expression ^[^@]+@pps\.k12\.or\.us$ added to the accept_these_nonmembers filter under Privacy options...->Sender filters will allow posts from any non-subscriber with an @pps.k12.or.us address. Is this what you want? -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From rmg at terc.edu Sat Sep 25 01:39:21 2004 From: rmg at terc.edu (Robby Griffin) Date: Sat Sep 25 01:39:24 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] SCRUBBER Question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Friday, Sep 24, 2004, at 19:07 US/Eastern, Brad Knowles wrote: > Leaving it as a ".doc" file when the MIME bodypart type does not > match the claimed extension *is* dangerous. In mail, yes (and what does Mailman normally do to sanitize extensions / MIME types in the messages it redistributes?). But on the web? I'm curious, what's the threat model? --Robby From tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp Sat Sep 25 14:12:22 2004 From: tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp (Tokio Kikuchi) Date: Sat Sep 25 14:12:44 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] SCRUBBER Question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <415560A6.6010103@is.kochi-u.ac.jp> Hi all, Robby Griffin wrote: > > I'll come up with a patch if anyone wants it, but seriously, YMMV, a lot. > I think I should commit one of my unpublishd patch on SourceForge CVS. @@ -356,8 +396,16 @@ # e.g. image/jpg (should be image/jpeg). For now we just store such # things as application/octet-streams since that seems the safest. ctype = msg.get_content_type() - fnext = os.path.splitext(msg.get_filename(''))[1] - ext = guess_extension(ctype, fnext) + # i18n file name is encoded + lcset = Utils.GetCharSet(mlist.preferred_language) + filename = Utils.oneline(msg.get_filename(''), lcset) + fnext = os.path.splitext(filename)[1] + # For safety, we should confirm this is valid ext for content-type + # but we can use fnext if we introduce fnext filtering + if mm_cfg.SCRUBBER_USE_ATTACHMENT_FILENAME_EXTENSION: + ext = fnext + else: + ext = guess_extension(ctype, fnext) if not ext: # We don't know what it is, so assume it's just a shapeless # application/octet-stream, unless the Content-Type: is With this patch, site manager can set SCRUBBER_USE_ATTACHMENT_FILENAME_EXTENSION = True in mm_cfg.py to use attachment filename extension as is specified by the original attachment. I also want to merge patch id 1027882 so that really dangerous files can be trapped by MimeDel.py. -- Tokio Kikuchi, tkikuchi@ is.kochi-u.ac.jp http://weather.is.kochi-u.ac.jp/ From marci at kalico.net Sat Sep 25 22:14:46 2004 From: marci at kalico.net (Marci Abraham O'Daffer) Date: Sat Sep 25 22:14:22 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Foreign Lang Posts Message-ID: <4155D1B6.7040508@kalico.net> We have a user who experiences intermittent problems with MM -- sometimes it sends, sometimes it does not. She has multiple lists, and all the same problem. The only consistent issue I can see is that she sends a lot of messages in French. Are there known issues with MM dealing with non-US characters? Or could her ISP be messing with the formatting somehow? I can't think of anything else. Any suggestions would be most appreciated. Thanks, Marci :) -- Marci O'Daffer, Managing Director HostingNorthwest.net From marci at kalico.net Sun Sep 26 00:25:18 2004 From: marci at kalico.net (Marci Abraham O'Daffer) Date: Sun Sep 26 00:24:55 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] HTML email Message-ID: <4155F04E.1010005@kalico.net> I am having a hard time understanding how mm handles HTML mail. I realize the digest pretty much trashes it, and the archive does not preserve it, but is there any way to make either of them behave so that the end user has a digest or an archive that is more readable? Thanks. -- Marci Abraham O'Daffer marci@kalico.net From msapiro at value.net Sun Sep 26 00:45:20 2004 From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Sun Sep 26 00:45:32 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] HTML email In-Reply-To: <4155F04E.1010005@kalico.net> Message-ID: Marci Abraham O'Daffer wrote: >I am having a hard time understanding how mm handles HTML mail. I >realize the digest pretty much trashes it, and the archive does not >preserve it, but is there any way to make either of them behave so that >the end user has a digest or an archive that is more readable? If your goal is simply to have readable messages on your list, turn on content filtering and allow only multipart/mixed, multipart/alternative, message/rfc822 and text/plain in pass_mime_types. This will insure that only plain text reaches the list, the digest and the archives. You can also experiment with turning on convert_html_to_plaintext and adding text/html to the above list, but there is a problem with HTML to plain text conversion if the HTML part is also encoded base64 or quoted-printable. Note that with this filtering, a multipart/alternative part with text/plain and text/html sub-parts will by design have the HTML part stripped in favor of the plain text part rather than converted. If your goal is to actually deliver HTML formatted messages to the list, then you won't want the above. If the users select MIME format digests, then messages containing HTML might be more readable in the digest. I'm not sure of this as I've never tried it. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From bob at nleaudio.com Sun Sep 26 05:45:38 2004 From: bob at nleaudio.com (Bob Puff@NLE) Date: Sun Sep 26 05:31:47 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Convert from 2.1b2+ and move to another host Message-ID: <41563B62.3010205@nleaudio.com> Hi Gang, I've got to move a few lists from a machine running "2.1b2+" to one running the latest "stable" 2.1.5 version. No archives, just basic lists. Can I just create the lists on the new machine, and then copy over the config.pck file, or is there more "data massaging" that needs to be done? Has the format of this file changed any since the beta 2 version of 2.1? Bob From claw at kanga.nu Sun Sep 26 07:34:55 2004 From: claw at kanga.nu (J C Lawrence) Date: Sun Sep 26 07:34:59 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Foreign Lang Posts In-Reply-To: Message from "Marci Abraham O'Daffer" of "Sat, 25 Sep 2004 13:14:46 PDT." <4155D1B6.7040508@kalico.net> References: <4155D1B6.7040508@kalico.net> Message-ID: <17479.1096176895@kanga.nu> On Sat, 25 Sep 2004 13:14:46 -0700 Marci Abraham O'Daffer wrote: > We have a user who experiences intermittent problems with MM -- > sometimes it sends, sometimes it does not. She has multiple lists, and > all the same problem. The only consistent issue I can see is that she > sends a lot of messages in French. Are there known issues with MM > dealing with non-US characters? Or could her ISP be messing with the > formatting somehow? I can't think of anything else. Any suggestions > would be most appreciated. What do the Mailman and MTA logs say? -- J C Lawrence ---------(*) Satan, oscillate my metallic sonatas. claw@kanga.nu He lived as a devil, eh? http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/ Evil is a name of a foeman, as I live. From claw at kanga.nu Sun Sep 26 07:37:10 2004 From: claw at kanga.nu (J C Lawrence) Date: Sun Sep 26 07:37:13 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] HTML email In-Reply-To: Message from "Marci Abraham O'Daffer" of "Sat, 25 Sep 2004 15:25:18 PDT." <4155F04E.1010005@kalico.net> References: <4155F04E.1010005@kalico.net> Message-ID: <17683.1096177030@kanga.nu> On Sat, 25 Sep 2004 15:25:18 -0700 Marci Abraham O'Daffer wrote: > I am having a hard time understanding how mm handles HTML mail. In generaly, especially in v2.1, it handles it just fine by not doing anything special with it. > I realize the digest pretty much trashes it... That's only true of the text digest. MIME digests handle HTML (and MIME) just fine. You may wish to disable text digests if your lists have frequent HTML messages.. > .. and the archive does not preserve it... Actually, it can. You can also use an external archiver such as MHonArc which is particularly capable in this areas. > ... but is there any way to make either of them behave so that the end > user has a digest or an archive that is more readable? Yup. See above and make sure you are running v2.1 for starters. -- J C Lawrence ---------(*) Satan, oscillate my metallic sonatas. claw@kanga.nu He lived as a devil, eh? http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/ Evil is a name of a foeman, as I live. From tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp Sun Sep 26 13:35:13 2004 From: tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp (Tokio Kikuchi) Date: Sun Sep 26 13:35:34 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Convert from 2.1b2+ and move to another host In-Reply-To: <41563B62.3010205@nleaudio.com> References: <41563B62.3010205@nleaudio.com> Message-ID: <4156A971.6020302@is.kochi-u.ac.jp> Hi, Bob Puff@NLE wrote: > Can I just create the lists on the new machine, and then copy over the > config.pck file, or is there more "data massaging" that needs to be > done? Has the format of this file changed any since the beta 2 version > of 2.1? Yes, a lot of changes. I believe you must run "bin/update -f" to force config.pck work under version 2.1.5. Cheers, -- Tokio Kikuchi, tkikuchi@ is.kochi-u.ac.jp http://weather.is.kochi-u.ac.jp/ From tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp Sun Sep 26 15:12:49 2004 From: tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp (Tokio Kikuchi) Date: Sun Sep 26 15:13:07 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] HTML email In-Reply-To: <4155F04E.1010005@kalico.net> References: <4155F04E.1010005@kalico.net> Message-ID: <4156C051.6010200@is.kochi-u.ac.jp> Hi, Marci Abraham O'Daffer wrote: > I am having a hard time understanding how mm handles HTML mail. I > realize the digest pretty much trashes it, and the archive does not > preserve it, but is there any way to make either of them behave so that > the end user has a digest or an archive that is more readable? Try upgrading to the latest CVS. It now includes my patch on Scrubber.py to fix problems. Also, you may want to set ARCHIVE_HTML_SANITIZER = 3 in mm_cfg.py to correctly display the scrubbed HTML archive. You can get the latest CVS for the Release_2_1-maint by $ cvs -z3 -d:pserver:anonymous@cvs.sourceforge.net:/cvsroot/mailman \ co -r Release_2_1-maint mailman -- Tokio Kikuchi, tkikuchi@ is.kochi-u.ac.jp http://weather.is.kochi-u.ac.jp/ From tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp Sun Sep 26 15:21:43 2004 From: tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp (Tokio Kikuchi) Date: Sun Sep 26 15:22:00 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Foreign Lang Posts In-Reply-To: <4155D1B6.7040508@kalico.net> References: <4155D1B6.7040508@kalico.net> Message-ID: <4156C267.8010305@is.kochi-u.ac.jp> Hi, > Are there known issues with MM > dealing with non-US characters? The mail message should be *very* MIME-aware. If you put a raw 8bit character in the subject, the message will go shunted. -- Tokio Kikuchi, tkikuchi@ is.kochi-u.ac.jp http://weather.is.kochi-u.ac.jp/ From rlemus at dcc.uchile.cl Tue Sep 28 01:05:15 2004 From: rlemus at dcc.uchile.cl (Ricardo Lemus) Date: Tue Sep 28 01:05:21 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Problems with arch In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <41589CAB.10006@dcc.uchile.cl> Hi, I have problems with parsing a mail with mailman-2.1.4-1 in fedora core 1. This is the header and a few lines of body's mail: From xxxx@xxxxx.org Thu Sep 23 17:16:30 2004 -0400 Return-Path: Received: from axxwxa.org ([208.22.32.226]) by dddddd.org with SMTP (List Manager SOLARIS/SPARC version 4.2.1); Tue, 03 Sep 2002 13:50:45 -0400 Received: from exchange.dddd.org ([208.11.253.27]) by firewall.dddd.org with ESM TP id <119042>; Tue, 3 Sep 2002 13:51:42 -0400 Received: by exchange.d.org with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Tue, 3 Sep 2002 13:46:01 -0400 Message-ID: <0B5CB7E77F3CD6119E10006097C5505506E92F@exchange.addddf.org> From: Joel Anne Sweithelm To: "'dddd.ddd.@dcasd.cl'" Subject: A&WMA's 4th International Urban Forum Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2002 13:45:59 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Status: R X-Status: X-Keywords: From June 23-25, the Air & Waste Management Association (A&WMA) held its 4th International Urban Environmental Infrastructure Forum in Baltimore, ----------------------------------------------------------------- The problem is, that the body's mail start with a 'From ...' then arch suppossed that is a new message and then strip in 2 files. Can anyone help me, please. Ricardo Lemus Santiago, Chile. From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org Tue Sep 28 01:30:36 2004 From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles) Date: Tue Sep 28 01:31:24 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Problems with arch In-Reply-To: <41589CAB.10006@dcc.uchile.cl> References: <41589CAB.10006@dcc.uchile.cl> Message-ID: At 7:05 PM -0400 2004-09-27, Ricardo Lemus wrote: > The problem is, that the body's mail start with a 'From ...' then > arch suppossed that is a new message and then strip in 2 files. You appear to have an MTA that is not performing 7th edition mbox-format "^From" escaping. I wouldn't have expected that this would cause a problem, because arch should be taking each message as it comes in and processing it as a single unit, regardless of whether or not this was done. Of course, this would be an issue when you're importing large numbers of messages into the archive, as I believe that the tools probably do assume 7th edition mbox-format mailboxes. If you can configure your MTA to perform this function, that should resolve the problem. See also , , and . -- Brad Knowles, "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755 SAGE member since 1995. See for more info. From rlemus at dcc.uchile.cl Tue Sep 28 02:07:01 2004 From: rlemus at dcc.uchile.cl (Ricardo Lemus) Date: Tue Sep 28 02:07:06 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Problems with arch In-Reply-To: References: <41589CAB.10006@dcc.uchile.cl> Message-ID: <4158AB25.5080000@dcc.uchile.cl> > > You appear to have an MTA that is not performing 7th edition > mbox-format "^From" escaping. I wouldn't have expected that this would > cause a problem, because arch should be taking each message as it comes > in and processing it as a single unit, regardless of whether or not this > was done. Of course, this would be an issue when you're importing large > numbers of messages into the archive, as I believe that the tools > probably do assume 7th edition mbox-format mailboxes. > Bingo. I'm importing archives list from a listserv. The file isn't a standard mailbox. It has a different From date format. And now you give me a second tips. Thxn! From msapiro at value.net Tue Sep 28 02:35:02 2004 From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro) Date: Tue Sep 28 02:35:11 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Problems with arch In-Reply-To: <4158AB25.5080000@dcc.uchile.cl> Message-ID: Ricardo Lemus wrote: > >Bingo. >I'm importing archives list from a listserv. >The file isn't a standard mailbox. >It has a different From date format. > >And now you give me a second tips. In that case (importing an archive), look at bin/cleanarch to fix the unescaped "From " lines in the message bodies. bin/cleanarch --help for instructions. It isn't perfect and your archive may still require a little hand fixing. I had one or two problems where one post included a copy of another e-mail including the "From " line. These are hard to find. In my case, I was able to find them because the messages in the import archive file had a fixed sequence of exactly four headers From:, Date:, To: and Subject: so any "From " that wasn't followed by exactly these 4 lines and a blank line was suspect. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From karthikeyan.shankar at cybernetsoft.com Tue Sep 28 14:18:51 2004 From: karthikeyan.shankar at cybernetsoft.com (Karthikeyan) Date: Tue Sep 28 14:19:50 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] in-reply-to problem Message-ID: <415956AB.1080704@cybernetsoft.com> hello all, I am new to python and mailman. i have a problem, need to find a solution asap. when getting mails to the mailman from Lotus Domino client 5.0.10, the mail's does not have In-Reply-To header. Because of this the mail does not get threaded properly. pls tell me how i can solve this isue. Thanks Karthikeyan.S From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org Tue Sep 28 16:17:40 2004 From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles) Date: Tue Sep 28 16:23:00 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] in-reply-to problem In-Reply-To: <415956AB.1080704@cybernetsoft.com> References: <415956AB.1080704@cybernetsoft.com> Message-ID: At 5:48 PM +0530 2004-09-28, Karthikeyan wrote: > when getting mails to the mailman from Lotus Domino client 5.0.10, the > mail's does not have In-Reply-To header. Because of this the mail does > not get threaded properly. pls tell me how i can solve this isue. The short answer is to fix Lotus. For more information, go to the Mailman FAQ Wizard at and search for "thread". -- Brad Knowles, "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755 SAGE member since 1995. See for more info. From wheakory at isu.edu Wed Sep 29 01:06:36 2004 From: wheakory at isu.edu (Kory Wheatley) Date: Wed Sep 29 01:06:39 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Usiing the withlist command Message-ID: <4159EE7C.5040300@isu.edu> I'm trying to write a script where I can change the default_member_moderation and accept-these_nonmembers objects, after a new Mailman list is created automatically by a cron process. I've been able to change the "default_member_moderation" as planned, but the "accept_these_nonmembers" object I'm having troubles with. When I try to add an email address, it shows up in the configuration like this: w e b @ i s u . e d u How can I get the whole thing on one line. There's my python code import sys #Run this script with #withlist -l -r change_values mylist # def change_values(mlist): print 'LIST ', mlist.internal_name() print ' Default Member Moderation Before: ', mlist.default_member_moderation print ' Accepted Non Members Before: ', mlist.accept_these_nonmembers mlist.default_member_moderation = 1 mlist.accept_these_nonmembers = "root@mm.isu.edu' print ' Default Member Moderation After: ', mlist.default_member_moderation print ' Accepted Non Members After: ', mlist.accept_these_nonmembers mlist.Save() The reason why I'm doing this is these lists have a different configuration setup than what's in a default list that's setup with the standard configuration in mm_cfg.py -- Kory Wheatley Academic Computing Analyst Sr. Phone 282-3874 ######################################### Everything must point to him. From chris at cogdon.org Wed Sep 29 01:10:34 2004 From: chris at cogdon.org (Chris Cogdon) Date: Wed Sep 29 01:10:42 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Usiing the withlist command In-Reply-To: <4159EE7C.5040300@isu.edu> References: <4159EE7C.5040300@isu.edu> Message-ID: <9A1A703E-11A3-11D9-9889-000A95E3823E@cogdon.org> On Sep 28, 2004, at 16:06, Kory Wheatley wrote: > mlist.accept_these_nonmembers = "root@mm.isu.edu' This should probably be: mlist.accept_these_nonmembers = [ "root@mm.isu.edu" ] If you give a string to something that expects a list, it will often treat it as a 'list of single characters' rather than a 'list of strings'. -- ("`-/")_.-'"``-._ Chris Cogdon . . `; -._ )-;-,_`) (v_,)' _ )`-.\ ``-' _.- _..-_/ / ((.' ((,.-' ((,/ fL From r.barrett at openinfo.co.uk Wed Sep 29 07:03:36 2004 From: r.barrett at openinfo.co.uk (Richard Barrett) Date: Wed Sep 29 07:03:56 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Re: [Mailman-Users] Usiing the withlist command In-Reply-To: <4159EE7C.5040300@isu.edu> References: <4159EE7C.5040300@isu.edu> Message-ID: On 29 Sep 2004, at 00:06, Kory Wheatley wrote: > > > I'm trying to write a script where I can change the > default_member_moderation and accept-these_nonmembers objects, after a > new Mailman list is created automatically by a cron process. I've been > able to change the "default_member_moderation" as planned, but the > "accept_these_nonmembers" object I'm having troubles with. When I try > to add an email address, it shows up in the configuration like this: > w > e > b > @ > i > s > u > . > e > d > u > > How can I get the whole thing on one line. There's my python code > > import sys > #Run this script with > #withlist -l -r change_values mylist > # > def change_values(mlist): > print 'LIST ', mlist.internal_name() > print ' Default Member Moderation Before: ', > mlist.default_member_moderation > print ' Accepted Non Members Before: ', > mlist.accept_these_nonmembers > mlist.default_member_moderation = 1 > mlist.accept_these_nonmembers = "root@mm.isu.edu' accept_these_nonmembers is held as a Python list not a string. You may want to say: mlist.accept_these_nonmembers.append("root@mm.isu.edu") or, if you do not want to preserve the prior list content: mlist.accept_these_nonmembers = ["root@mm.isu.edu"] or, you want to add the address only if it is not already in the list: if not "root@mm.isu.edu" in mlist.accept_these_nonmembers: mlist.accept_these_nonmembers.append("root@mm.isu.edu") > print ' Default Member Moderation After: ', > mlist.default_member_moderation > print ' Accepted Non Members After: ', > mlist.accept_these_nonmembers > mlist.Save() > > The reason why I'm doing this is these lists have a different > configuration setup than what's in a default list that's setup with the > standard configuration in mm_cfg.py > > -- > Kory Wheatley > Academic Computing Analyst Sr. > Phone 282-3874 > ######################################### > Everything must point to him. From karthikeyan.shankar at cybernetsoft.com Wed Sep 29 07:31:53 2004 From: karthikeyan.shankar at cybernetsoft.com (Karthikeyan) Date: Wed Sep 29 07:32:58 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] in-reply-to problem In-Reply-To: References: <415956AB.1080704@cybernetsoft.com> Message-ID: <415A48C9.60803@cybernetsoft.com> Thanks, but i need to give a solution in the mailman, as the other party would not want o fine tune theie lotus notes. I need this from any of you. Can i please have the architectural flow of how the .py programs are being called. like which .py calls sends the mail and which therads it. I am trying to analyse whether i can add one header myself. but dunno where to try coz the .py are vast Thanks a lot. Brad Knowles wrote: > At 5:48 PM +0530 2004-09-28, Karthikeyan wrote: > >> when getting mails to the mailman from Lotus Domino client 5.0.10, the >> mail's does not have In-Reply-To header. Because of this the mail does >> not get threaded properly. pls tell me how i can solve this isue. > > > The short answer is to fix Lotus. > > For more information, go to the Mailman FAQ Wizard at > and search for "thread". > From r.barrett at openinfo.co.uk Wed Sep 29 10:30:18 2004 From: r.barrett at openinfo.co.uk (Richard Barrett) Date: Wed Sep 29 10:30:47 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Re: [Mailman-Users] Usiing the withlist command In-Reply-To: <4159EE7C.5040300@isu.edu> References: <4159EE7C.5040300@isu.edu> Message-ID: <004201c4a5fe$8d4bfc60$0100000a@intellecthr.local> On 29 Sep 2004, at 00:06, Kory Wheatley wrote: > > > I'm trying to write a script where I can change the > default_member_moderation and accept-these_nonmembers objects, after a > new Mailman list is created automatically by a cron process. I've been > able to change the "default_member_moderation" as planned, but the > "accept_these_nonmembers" object I'm having troubles with. When I try > to add an email address, it shows up in the configuration like this: > w > e > b > @ > i > s > u > . > e > d > u > > How can I get the whole thing on one line. There's my python code > > import sys > #Run this script with > #withlist -l -r change_values mylist > # > def change_values(mlist): > print 'LIST ', mlist.internal_name() > print ' Default Member Moderation Before: ', > mlist.default_member_moderation > print ' Accepted Non Members Before: ', > mlist.accept_these_nonmembers > mlist.default_member_moderation = 1 > mlist.accept_these_nonmembers = "root@mm.isu.edu' accept_these_nonmembers is held as a Python list not a string. You may want to say: mlist.accept_these_nonmembers.append("root@mm.isu.edu") or, if you do not want to preserve the prior list content: mlist.accept_these_nonmembers = ["root@mm.isu.edu"] or, you want to add the address only if it is not already in the list: if not "root@mm.isu.edu" in mlist.accept_these_nonmembers: mlist.accept_these_nonmembers.append("root@mm.isu.edu") > print ' Default Member Moderation After: ', > mlist.default_member_moderation > print ' Accepted Non Members After: ', > mlist.accept_these_nonmembers > mlist.Save() > > The reason why I'm doing this is these lists have a different > configuration setup than what's in a default list that's setup with the > standard configuration in mm_cfg.py > > -- > Kory Wheatley > Academic Computing Analyst Sr. > Phone 282-3874 > ######################################### > Everything must point to him. ------------------------------------------------------ Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ From chris at cogdon.org Wed Sep 29 10:30:29 2004 From: chris at cogdon.org (Chris Cogdon) Date: Wed Sep 29 10:30:55 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: [Mailman-Developers] Usiing the withlist command In-Reply-To: <4159EE7C.5040300@isu.edu> References: <4159EE7C.5040300@isu.edu> Message-ID: <00a201c4a5fe$93c03520$0100000a@intellecthr.local> On Sep 28, 2004, at 16:06, Kory Wheatley wrote: > mlist.accept_these_nonmembers = "root@mm.isu.edu' This should probably be: mlist.accept_these_nonmembers = [ "root@mm.isu.edu" ] If you give a string to something that expects a list, it will often treat it as a 'list of single characters' rather than a 'list of strings'. -- ("`-/")_.-'"``-._ Chris Cogdon . . `; -._ )-;-,_`) (v_,)' _ )`-.\ ``-' _.- _..-_/ / ((.' ((,.-' ((,/ fL ------------------------------------------------------ Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org Wed Sep 29 13:06:55 2004 From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles) Date: Wed Sep 29 13:15:51 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] in-reply-to problem In-Reply-To: <415A48C9.60803@cybernetsoft.com> References: <415956AB.1080704@cybernetsoft.com> <415A48C9.60803@cybernetsoft.com> Message-ID: At 11:01 AM +0530 2004-09-29, Karthikeyan wrote: > but i need to give a solution in the mailman, as the other party would > not want o fine tune theie lotus notes. It is not physically possible to solve this problem from within Mailman. If the client doesn't put that header in to begin with, there is no amount of artificial intelligence you could add to the program that could determine with 100% certainty as to precisely which message is actually being replied to and which other messages are being referenced. > like which .py calls sends the mail and which therads it. I am trying > to analyse whether i can add one header myself. but dunno where to try > coz the .py are vast You could spend a trillion dollars on this problem and not find a solution. The entire computer industry has been working on AI since the early 1960s, and they haven't solve it yet, and don't appear to be much closer today than they were back then. -- Brad Knowles, "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755 SAGE member since 1995. See for more info. From claw at kanga.nu Wed Sep 29 17:30:44 2004 From: claw at kanga.nu (J C Lawrence) Date: Wed Sep 29 17:30:51 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] in-reply-to problem In-Reply-To: Message from Brad Knowles of "Wed, 29 Sep 2004 13:06:55 +0200." References: <415956AB.1080704@cybernetsoft.com> <415A48C9.60803@cybernetsoft.com> Message-ID: <24824.1096471844@kanga.nu> On Wed, 29 Sep 2004 13:06:55 +0200 Brad Knowles wrote: > At 11:01 AM +0530 2004-09-29, Karthikeyan wrote: >> but i need to give a solution in the mailman, as the other party >> would not want o fine tune theie lotus notes. > It is not physically possible to solve this problem from within > Mailman. Good reading on the background: http://www.jwz.org/doc/threading.html -- J C Lawrence ---------(*) Satan, oscillate my metallic sonatas. claw@kanga.nu He lived as a devil, eh? http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/ Evil is a name of a foeman, as I live. From jdennis at redhat.com Wed Sep 29 18:39:13 2004 From: jdennis at redhat.com (John Dennis) Date: Wed Sep 29 18:39:15 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Red Hat plans on moving an installation directory Message-ID: <1096475953.5767.118.camel@finch.boston.redhat.com> Hi All: I thought it would be valuable to communicate this to this group and if it does not provoke any major outcry's then to the mail-users group a bit later. For a long time our mailman RPM's have installed all of mailman under /var/mailman (specifically both the prefix and with-var-prefix parameters to configure were set to /var/mailman). This was a packaging decision made before my tenure here and the rational for the decision seems to be lost. My personal belief is once a decision is made for where files live in a distribution there is much value in keeping that consistent as users develop expectations on where to find files. However, we are in the process of trying to make Linux much more secure and a major component of that strategy is the introduction of a technology called SELinux (Secure Linux). SELinux has at its heart the "labeling" of files which give fine grained control over what actions specific processes operating in certain "roles" can do. To make this viable there is a tremendous advantage to having files installed in canonical locations (at a minimum conforming to the FHS, the Filesystem Hierarchy Standard). The previous choice of installing all of mailman, including the scripts, libraries, executables, and cgi-bin which need to be locked down and restricted for process execution into a filesystem root (/var) which is designated to contain variable application data which is not executed was creating security policy problems. We have made a choice to move the non-data components of mailman to /usr/lib/mailman by changing the prefix configure parameter (the with-var-prefix remains set to /var/mailman). This is closer to what some of the other distributions do. We intend to introduce this change in the Fedora Core 3 release and the RHEL 4 release. Since there are a number of files that admins modify (config and templates) and which the rpm installation process normally preserves on upgrade they may get "burned" because the installer is not smart enough to preserve those modified files across a new installation directory, or may simply be confused on where to find files. The installation directory change will appear in release notes and the installation documentation (/usr/share/doc/mailman-*) however we all know how much people read these things :-). So I thought this was a valuable group to draw attention to this as its certain to come up as an issue at some point. Also, if you see some fundamentally flawed reason why this is a bad change now is the time to raise your concerns before we advance out of the beta period. When the release goes live I will send mail to mailman-users and the Red Hat portion of the FAQ should be amended. Thanks! -- John Dennis From Matt_Domsch at dell.com Wed Sep 29 18:49:00 2004 From: Matt_Domsch at dell.com (Matt Domsch) Date: Wed Sep 29 18:49:06 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Red Hat plans on moving an installation directory In-Reply-To: <1096475953.5767.118.camel@finch.boston.redhat.com> References: <1096475953.5767.118.camel@finch.boston.redhat.com> Message-ID: <20040929164900.GA3096@lists.us.dell.com> On Wed, Sep 29, 2004 at 12:39:13PM -0400, John Dennis wrote: > We have made a choice to move the non-data components of mailman to > /usr/lib/mailman by changing the prefix configure parameter (the > with-var-prefix remains set to /var/mailman). This is closer to what > some of the other distributions do. I like it. However, I believe that FHS recommends using /var/lib/mailman rather than /var/mailman for those components. Per FHS 2.3: Applications must generally not add directories to the top level of /var. Such directories should only be added if they have some system-wide implication, and in consultation with the FHS mailing list. An application (or a group of inter-related applications) must use a subdirectory of /var/lib for its data. So, if you're going to make changes per FHS, change that one too... Thanks, Matt -- Matt Domsch Sr. Software Engineer, Lead Engineer Dell Linux Solutions linux.dell.com & www.dell.com/linux Linux on Dell mailing lists @ http://lists.us.dell.com From barry at python.org Wed Sep 29 18:54:10 2004 From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw) Date: Wed Sep 29 18:54:18 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Red Hat plans on moving an installation directory In-Reply-To: <1096475953.5767.118.camel@finch.boston.redhat.com> References: <1096475953.5767.118.camel@finch.boston.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1096476850.8423.62.camel@geddy.wooz.org> On Wed, 2004-09-29 at 12:39, John Dennis wrote: > However, we are in the process of trying to make Linux much more secure > and a major component of that strategy is the introduction of a > technology called SELinux (Secure Linux). SELinux has at its heart the > "labeling" of files which give fine grained control over what actions > specific processes operating in certain "roles" can do. To make this > viable there is a tremendous advantage to having files installed in > canonical locations (at a minimum conforming to the FHS, the Filesystem > Hierarchy Standard). I don't have much to add, except to say that I think it's a good thing to at least conform to FHS. To the extent that MM2's architecture makes this difficult (e.g. mm_cfg.py) if there are simple things we can do to make this possible I'm all ears. It is definitely a design goal of MM3 to be able to install all the constituent parts in the canonical locations. -Barry -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 307 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-developers/attachments/20040929/f8bfd481/attachment.pgp