From mark at antsclimbtree.com Sun Feb 1 15:58:28 2004 From: mark at antsclimbtree.com (Mark Edwards) Date: Sun Feb 1 15:58:38 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Unknown virtual host Message-ID: <62555F38-54F9-11D8-AB57-000A278CC960@antsclimbtree.com> This used to work on my machine, but it presumably broke after some change to Mailman. If I try to create a new list via the web interface, I get: Error: Unknown virtual host: secure.antsclimbtree.com This is incorrect, secure.antsclimbtree.com most certainly is a known vitual host, both to apache and to exim. Obviously whatever method Mailman is using to check virtual host validity is consulting something other than apache or exim. The relevant lines from the create.py source codes are: # Make sure the web hostname matches one of our virtual domains hostname = Utils.get_domain() if mm_cfg.VIRTUAL_HOST_OVERVIEW and \ not mm_cfg.VIRTUAL_HOSTS.has_key(hostname): safehostname = Utils.websafe(hostname) request_creation(doc, cgidata, _('Unknown virtual host: %(safehostname)s')) return emailhost = mm_cfg.VIRTUAL_HOSTS.get(hostname, mm_cfg.DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST) As I don't know python whatsoever, I can't figure out what test is being used here. What I do know is that I can access pages on my server at secure.antsclimbtree.com, and I can send email to secure.antsclimbtree.com as well, so whatever check is being used doesn't seem relevant in my case. Can someone help me sort this out? Thanks. -- Mark Edwards From kalasani at sena.com Mon Feb 2 01:41:27 2004 From: kalasani at sena.com (Prabhakar Kalasani) Date: Mon Feb 2 01:41:30 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Problem with Modem PC card Message-ID: Hi all, when i'm trying to dial a modem pc card , I could able to send modem string through /dev/ttyC8 , but I'm not getting any response by saying "OK" from the target. But when I use some other manufacturers PC card , I'm getting response saying "OK" from the target. what could be the problem ? Thanks in advance. Regards, Prabhakar Kalasani From brad.knowles at skynet.be Mon Feb 2 02:35:53 2004 From: brad.knowles at skynet.be (Brad Knowles) Date: Mon Feb 2 02:37:08 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Problem with Modem PC card In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: At 3:41 PM +0900 2004/02/02, Prabhakar Kalasani wrote: > when i'm trying to dial a modem pc card , I could able to send modem string > through /dev/ttyC8 , but I'm not getting any response by saying "OK" from > the target. Mailman is a mailing list manager. I don't see any relation at all to modems. Perhaps you posted this message to the wrong mailing list? -- Brad Knowles, "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania. GCS/IT d+(-) s:+(++)>: a C++(+++)$ UMBSHI++++$ P+>++ L+ !E-(---) W+++(--) N+ !w--- O- M++ V PS++(+++) PE- Y+(++) PGP>+++ t+(+++) 5++(+++) X++(+++) R+(+++) tv+(+++) b+(++++) DI+(++++) D+(++) G+(++++) e++>++++ h--- r---(+++)* z(+++) From Nigel.Metheringham at dev.InTechnology.co.uk Mon Feb 2 05:02:56 2004 From: Nigel.Metheringham at dev.InTechnology.co.uk (Nigel Metheringham) Date: Mon Feb 2 05:03:21 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] AOL's requirements for spam complaints In-Reply-To: <1075493165.1075.157.camel@anthem> References: <401A6185.2080003@bellanet.org> <1075493165.1075.157.camel@anthem> Message-ID: <1075716175.7991.17.camel@angua.localnet> On Fri, 2004-01-30 at 20:06, Barry Warsaw wrote: > On Fri, 2004-01-30 at 08:52, Kevin McCann wrote: > > > Why is it, then, that Lyris can send personalized messages to lists with > > hundreds of thousands of members with no problem? I don't personally > > have any lists that are nearly that big but I can tell you that my Lyris > > box sends messages to my lists with a few thousand members extremely > > quickly. > > And I think we can make Mailman clear its queue of a message very > quickly, even with full personalization turned on. How Mailman 2.1 does > personalization is not as efficient as it could be, for technical > reasons I won't go into right now. I believe we can make Mailman more > efficient here. A standard MTA has to obey certain rules. The most basic of which is that you do not accept a message (ie +ve status to the . at the end of the DATA section) until you have either finally delivered the message or committed it to stable storage. Mailman talks to a standard local (same or nearby box) MTA. Lyris is unlikely to have to play this the same way. Mailman + MTA with personalisation on has to push 50K messages (in the example griped about) to the local MTA each of which causes a batch of disk I/O with a strong synchronous component. Lyris is likely to be able to cheat like hell here. Of course if its only a list box, and you don't care too much about absolute auditability through the mail delivery system you could just switch of sync operations on that filesystem and probably get one hell of a speed up.... at the risk of interesting things happening in the case of a crash. Nigel. -- [ Nigel Metheringham Nigel.Metheringham@InTechnology.co.uk ] [ - Comments in this message are my own and not ITO opinion/policy - ] From brad.knowles at skynet.be Mon Feb 2 06:27:09 2004 From: brad.knowles at skynet.be (Brad Knowles) Date: Mon Feb 2 06:28:25 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] AOL's requirements for spam complaints In-Reply-To: <1075716175.7991.17.camel@angua.localnet> References: <401A6185.2080003@bellanet.org> <1075493165.1075.157.camel@anthem> <1075716175.7991.17.camel@angua.localnet> Message-ID: At 10:02 AM +0000 2004/02/02, Nigel Metheringham wrote: > Of course if its only a list box, and you don't care too much about > absolute auditability through the mail delivery system you could just > switch of sync operations on that filesystem and probably get one hell > of a speed up.... at the risk of interesting things happening in the > case of a crash. In fact, in the case of announce-only lists of a very time-sensitive nature (e.g., sending out daily updates of the latest news over the past 24 hours that matches certain search criteria), you can do what InfoBeat/MercuryMail did -- run everything from a RAM disk. In that case, you don't care if there is a crash and millions of messages are lost, since you'll do another run tomorrow. In fact, if you use one of the battery-backed RAM disks (solid-state disks, actually) which are supported by Linux and FreeBSD (among others), you can get up to 4GB (or more) of reliable storage that will be lightning fast, and you will have the best of all possible worlds. This enhancement is mentioned as the final step to maximum performance gain in my slides at . If you're going to seriously consider this route, you probably want to look at the other options, too. The RocketDrive (see ) is one example, then there's the SolidDate SSD (see ) and the RAM-SAN from Texas Memory Systems (see ). -- Brad Knowles, "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania. GCS/IT d+(-) s:+(++)>: a C++(+++)$ UMBSHI++++$ P+>++ L+ !E-(---) W+++(--) N+ !w--- O- M++ V PS++(+++) PE- Y+(++) PGP>+++ t+(+++) 5++(+++) X++(+++) R+(+++) tv+(+++) b+(++++) DI+(++++) D+(++) G+(++++) e++>++++ h--- r---(+++)* z(+++) From brad.knowles at skynet.be Mon Feb 2 07:45:30 2004 From: brad.knowles at skynet.be (Brad Knowles) Date: Mon Feb 2 07:45:47 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] AOL's requirements for spam complaints In-Reply-To: References: <401A6185.2080003@bellanet.org> <1075493165.1075.157.camel@anthem> <1075716175.7991.17.camel@angua.localnet> Message-ID: At 12:27 PM +0100 2004/02/02, Brad Knowles wrote: > In fact, if you use one of the battery-backed RAM disks > (solid-state disks, actually) which are supported by Linux and > FreeBSD (among others), you can get up to 4GB (or more) of > reliable storage that will be lightning fast, and you will have > the best of all possible worlds. I've been looking at the requirements and potential performance you can get with Lyris ListManager, MailEngine, etc.... See and for the respective requirements, and for an idea of what kind of performance they can offer. Then look at their prices at . For 500,000 messages per hour with comprehensive support, that's a software-only cost of more than $24,000 (one million messages an hour would cost over $48,000). Using SSDs and the right configuration, I can do a higher level of performance for less money, hardware and software included. Indeed, mailman would be a key part of that system. If you want to pay commercial prices, you can get higher levels of performance and capabilities. But if you're not willing to pay those kinds of prices, you have to make some compromises. You may rarely get what you pay for, but you almost always pay for what you get -- sometimes much more than you should. -- Brad Knowles, "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania. GCS/IT d+(-) s:+(++)>: a C++(+++)$ UMBSHI++++$ P+>++ L+ !E-(---) W+++(--) N+ !w--- O- M++ V PS++(+++) PE- Y+(++) PGP>+++ t+(+++) 5++(+++) X++(+++) R+(+++) tv+(+++) b+(++++) DI+(++++) D+(++) G+(++++) e++>++++ h--- r---(+++)* z(+++) From rmg at terc.edu Mon Feb 2 10:14:22 2004 From: rmg at terc.edu (Robby Griffin) Date: Mon Feb 2 10:14:26 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Unknown virtual host In-Reply-To: <62555F38-54F9-11D8-AB57-000A278CC960@antsclimbtree.com> Message-ID: <7B14088A-5592-11D8-999C-000A95A0C58E@terc.edu> On Sunday, Feb 1, 2004, at 15:58 US/Eastern, Mark Edwards wrote: > This is incorrect, secure.antsclimbtree.com most certainly is a known > vitual host, both to apache and to exim. Obviously whatever method > Mailman is using to check virtual host validity is consulting > something other than apache or exim. Right, mailman has to consult its own list of virtual hosts in order to be sure it uses the correct, canonical mapping of webserver hosts to mail domains for thru-the-web list creation. See bug #835870, fixed in 2.1.4 -- just because your 'create' CGI is reachable at some URL doesn't necessarily mean you want people to be able to create lists that refer to that hostname, especially for email. In your mm_cfg.py, I believe you'd need to add this: add_virtualhost('secure.antsclimbtree.com', 'secure.antsclimbtree.com') since you apparently intend both URLs and email addresses to contain the full hostname. If you omit the second argument, mailman assumes the corresponding emailhost is the same as the webserver minus the first domain component, i.e. 'antsclimbtree.com'. Or, you could set VIRTUAL_HOST_OVERVIEW = Off if you don't want to be bothered with as many distinctions between virtual hosts. This sounds useful if what you're really doing is running lists under some primary domain with other possible domains acting like aliases for the primary. > As I don't know python whatsoever, I can't figure out what test is > being used here. References to mm_cfg should be a big clue. Typically each python file is a module with its own namespace, so mm_cfg.FOO is the FOO variable set in (or imported by) mm_cfg.py. It's worthwhile when you're upgrading Mailman to take a careful look at NEWS and Defaults.py to check for new settings that you'll need to customize, things in your mm_cfg.py that may have been changed or deprecated, etc. The virtual host settings have been there for several releases. That said, it might have been possible to resolve bug #835870 without getting in your way, I just have no idea how. I would think list creation would be ok if the domain were defined in mm_cfg.py, _or_ used in any existing list, but that is probably too annoying to implement and still confusing if you add a virtual host later. Certainly consulting the apache or exim config is out of the question. --Robby From mmokrejs at pf-i400.natur.cuni.cz Mon Feb 2 10:21:43 2004 From: mmokrejs at pf-i400.natur.cuni.cz (=?iso-8859-2?Q?Martin_MOKREJ=A9?=) Date: Mon Feb 2 10:21:46 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] URL's in generated html pages Message-ID: Hi, I found quite annoying and bad to generate full URL's in the generated webpages. For example, https://some.host/mailman/listinfo has a link to http://some.host/mailman/listinfo/admin . That's bad! I want to use only relative URL's of course!!! Could someone tell me where to edit the scripts or fix it in current cvs so I could upgrade immediately? I use mailman 2.1.4. Thanks! From chuqui at plaidworks.com Mon Feb 2 11:35:49 2004 From: chuqui at plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach) Date: Mon Feb 2 11:37:04 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] AOL's requirements for spam complaints In-Reply-To: References: <401A6185.2080003@bellanet.org> <1075493165.1075.157.camel@anthem> <1075716175.7991.17.camel@angua.localnet> Message-ID: On Feb 2, 2004, at 3:27 AM, Brad Knowles wrote: > In fact, in the case of announce-only lists of a very time-sensitive > nature (e.g., sending out daily updates of the latest news over the > past 24 hours that matches certain search criteria), you can do what > InfoBeat/MercuryMail did -- run everything from a RAM disk. It's definitely useful and a big win. It both clears up general disk I/O, but more importantly (from what I have seen), moves certain key inodes in the delivery file structure off of disk, and since I/O operations have to lock and unlock them for update, the time wasted single-threading through them goes way down (this is why, for instance, you should generate a fairly large number of sub-queues in sendmail; if you're trying to do volume and haven't, you're being silly; it spreads the load across more than one inode) From brad.knowles at skynet.be Mon Feb 2 13:06:22 2004 From: brad.knowles at skynet.be (Brad Knowles) Date: Mon Feb 2 13:06:43 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] AOL's requirements for spam complaints In-Reply-To: References: <401A6185.2080003@bellanet.org> <1075493165.1075.157.camel@anthem> <1075716175.7991.17.camel@angua.localnet> Message-ID: At 8:35 AM -0800 2004/02/02, Chuq Von Rospach wrote: > It's definitely useful and a big win. It both clears up general disk > I/O, but more importantly (from what I have seen), moves certain key > inodes in the delivery file structure off of disk, and since I/O > operations have to lock and unlock them for update, the time wasted > single-threading through them goes way down Those I/O locking operations are called synchronous meta-data updates. Imagine trying to clear an entire stadium filled with millions of people. There is one door. It can open and close very fast, but to be sure that everything is happening safely, it has to be closed and locked between every person. So, you unlock the door, open it, step through, close the door behind you, lock it, and then the next person can come through. No matter how fast you can open and close and luck and unlock that door, that's going to seriously decrease the throughput you can get through the system. > (this is why, for > instance, you should generate a fairly large number of sub-queues > in sendmail; if you're trying to do volume and haven't, you're > being silly; it spreads the load across more than one inode) Right, postfix does this by default, and sendmail can easily be configured to do it as well. There are lots of other nice things that postfix does by default and which more modern implementations of sendmail (e.g., 8.12 and above) also do, either by default, or are easily configured to do. In particular, envelope splitting for large numbers of recipients. This is like having multiple doors that can be operated simultaneously. Even if there is a central operating mechanism that can handle a single unlock/open/close/lock operation, you can interleave the operations between multiple doors, and greatly increase the overall throughput. Using improved filesystem architectures, such as softupdates, would be like using revolving doors instead. Using a RAM disk instead of physical drives is like making those doors operate at light speed, instead of the limitations imposed on normal wood, glass, and steel by the laws of physics. -- Brad Knowles, "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania. GCS/IT d+(-) s:+(++)>: a C++(+++)$ UMBSHI++++$ P+>++ L+ !E-(---) W+++(--) N+ !w--- O- M++ V PS++(+++) PE- Y+(++) PGP>+++ t+(+++) 5++(+++) X++(+++) R+(+++) tv+(+++) b+(++++) DI+(++++) D+(++) G+(++++) e++>++++ h--- r---(+++)* z(+++) From my at freexp.de Mon Feb 2 13:54:00 2004 From: my at freexp.de (Michael Heydekamp) Date: Mon Feb 2 13:56:20 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] cronpass.txt error Message-ID: <9266SKI4pwB@my.freexp.de> Hi, cronpass.txt has not been sent out this month. Can anybody explain what's going wrong here? ----------8<---------- > Traceback (most recent call last): > File "/usr/lib/mailman/cron/mailpasswds", line 238, in ? > main() > File "/usr/lib/mailman/cron/mailpasswds", line 214, in main > text += (header + '\n' + NL.join(table)) > UnicodeDecodeError: 'ascii' codec can't decode byte 0xdf in position 43: > ordinal not in range(128) ----------8<---------- Michael From mark at antsclimbtree.com Mon Feb 2 14:30:25 2004 From: mark at antsclimbtree.com (Mark Edwards) Date: Mon Feb 2 14:30:41 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Unknown virtual host In-Reply-To: <7B14088A-5592-11D8-999C-000A95A0C58E@terc.edu> References: <7B14088A-5592-11D8-999C-000A95A0C58E@terc.edu> Message-ID: <404ED312-55B6-11D8-A926-000A278CC960@antsclimbtree.com> On Feb 2, 2004, at 7:14 AM, Robby Griffin wrote: > That said, it might have been possible to resolve bug #835870 without > getting in your way, I just have no idea how. I would think list > creation would be ok if the domain were defined in mm_cfg.py, _or_ > used in any existing list, but that is probably too annoying to > implement and still confusing if you add a virtual host later. > Certainly consulting the apache or exim config is out of the question. Thanks for the explanation. I understand wanting to limit access to the create cgi, but isn't that the responsibility of how the admin designs the Apache implementation? If I don't want a particular domain to allow access to the cgi's, I don't alias them from that virtual domain. I'm not sure what's gained by adding a check to the cgi. In any case, now that I know what's up its no big deal. I would suggest that the error message could be something more descriptive, like "Error: secure.antsclimbtree.com not valid in mm_cfg.py". "Unknown virtual host" is pretty vague. If I had seen an error with mm_cfg.py in it, I would have figured this out in 2 minutes. Thanks for the help! -- Mark Edwards From Freedom_Lover at pobox.com Mon Feb 2 19:42:52 2004 From: Freedom_Lover at pobox.com (Todd) Date: Mon Feb 2 19:43:01 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Small patch to templates/en/verify.txt Message-ID: <20040203004252.GQ16958@psilocybe.teonanacatl.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Hi, Here is a very simple patch to correct a small typo I noticed in templates/en/verify.txt. It's included below and attached as a unified diff against the current CVS, just in case that makes some developers life a little easier. -If you do not wish to be subscribed from this list, please simply +If you do not wish to be subscribed to this list, please simply Thanks as always for the great software! - -- Todd OpenPGP -> KeyID: 0xD654075A | URL: www.pobox.com/~tmz/pgp ====================================================================== A snooze button is a poor substitute for no alarm clock at all. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) Comment: When crypto is outlawed bayl bhgynjf jvyy unir cevinpl. iD8DBQFAHu5Iuv+09NZUB1oRAnAmAJ9j+QlcB5Vp7tKI4ymV+jf8ONlIUwCePFTA STtdhdsrNSvAin1BvL9SMs8= =HlPT -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -------------- next part -------------- Index: templates/en/verify.txt =================================================================== RCS file: /cvsroot/mailman/mailman/templates/en/verify.txt,v retrieving revision 2.1 diff -u -r2.1 verify.txt --- templates/en/verify.txt 31 May 2001 19:23:16 -0000 2.1 +++ templates/en/verify.txt 3 Feb 2004 00:14:42 -0000 @@ -16,7 +16,7 @@ most mail readers, since that usually leaves the Subject: line in the right form (additional "Re:" text in the Subject: is okay). -If you do not wish to be subscribed from this list, please simply +If you do not wish to be subscribed to this list, please simply disregard this message. If you think you are being maliciously subscribed to the list, or have any other questions, send them to %(listadmin)s. From barry at python.org Mon Feb 2 22:20:09 2004 From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw) Date: Mon Feb 2 22:20:16 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] I'm hiring... In-Reply-To: <7FE624F0-53A6-11D8-8BF3-0003934516A8@plaidworks.com> References: <7FE624F0-53A6-11D8-8BF3-0003934516A8@plaidworks.com> Message-ID: <1075778408.29898.15.camel@anthem> On Fri, 2004-01-30 at 23:32, Chuq Von Rospach wrote: > god, I just realized I forgot to post these here. Hope you don't mind, > Barry. Not at all! -Barry From barry at python.org Mon Feb 2 22:33:48 2004 From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw) Date: Mon Feb 2 22:33:56 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] AOL's requirements for spam complaints In-Reply-To: <1075716175.7991.17.camel@angua.localnet> References: <401A6185.2080003@bellanet.org> <1075493165.1075.157.camel@anthem> <1075716175.7991.17.camel@angua.localnet> Message-ID: <1075779228.29898.24.camel@anthem> On Mon, 2004-02-02 at 05:02, Nigel Metheringham wrote: > > And I think we can make Mailman clear its queue of a message very > > quickly, even with full personalization turned on. How Mailman 2.1 does > > personalization is not as efficient as it could be, for technical > > reasons I won't go into right now. I believe we can make Mailman more > > efficient here. > > A standard MTA has to obey certain rules. Yep, and Mailman will be speaking SMTP for the foreseeable future. We'll see what replaces SMTP when it's declared illegal . That wasn't exactly what I was talking about though. Specifically, in the inner loop where Mailman is weaving the message template with the user specific data, Mailman does more work than it needs to do. Given Python 2.3 as a baseline and a few small incompatible changes, we can be about as efficient as is possible in Python. I've already got working code in my Mailman3 experiment. -Barry From barry at python.org Mon Feb 2 22:45:46 2004 From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw) Date: Mon Feb 2 22:45:55 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] A bit of perspective .... In-Reply-To: <47D6FF17-53AF-11D8-8BF3-0003934516A8@plaidworks.com> References: <401ABB59.6080101@bellanet.org> <9EF71992-53A9-11D8-8BF3-0003934516A8@plaidworks.com> <401B4144.9020905@bellanet.org> <47D6FF17-53AF-11D8-8BF3-0003934516A8@plaidworks.com> Message-ID: <1075779946.30388.6.camel@anthem> On Sat, 2004-01-31 at 00:35, Chuq Von Rospach wrote: > I've got a bit of MySQL background. My time is still limited, so I > won't commit to coding I can't depend on myself to finish -- but if you > want someone to help out on DB design and stuff, I'm in. I'll do what I > can and maybe help avoid some of the potholes. I'd like to see this, > too. I think the most critical thing for Mailman 3 will be designing the interfaces between the delivery pipelines and the persistent storages. I won't get into a lot of detail in this thread, but it's getting very close to the time to start talking about the designs I've been working on. Email isn't always the best way to discuss these things, which is why I'm really hoping we can get some people in a room, with a white board, and hash a bunch of things out. I'd like you all to come of course, but I understand that it likely won't be possible. Don't worry, stuff won't be set in stone until they're discussed here, but if you can get away for a couple of days, it would be awesome. -Barry From barry at python.org Mon Feb 2 22:55:50 2004 From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw) Date: Mon Feb 2 22:55:58 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] A bit of perspective .... In-Reply-To: <20040131145357.rydfbskgkw48og80@george.warnica> References: <401ABB59.6080101@bellanet.org> <9EF71992-53A9-11D8-8BF3-0003934516A8@plaidworks.com> <401B4144.9020905@bellanet.org> <47D6FF17-53AF-11D8-8BF3-0003934516A8@plaidworks.com> <20040131145357.rydfbskgkw48og80@george.warnica> Message-ID: <1075780550.30388.18.camel@anthem> On Sat, 2004-01-31 at 13:53, Jeff Warnica wrote: > LDAP may be a better data[base|sink] for configuration data then SQL. It may be > harder to work with (only because less people have experience with it), and it > may be less usefull to a lot of sites (everyone has MySQL installed, not so for > LDAP), but preference storage is a common use for LDAP. For sites who already > have LDAP deployed, you can leverage the existing authentication data. LDAP > stores "objects", SQL "rows"... Let me take a few moments to describe what I'm looking for, or at least how I'm viewing the system. This is an ideal, and we'll see how close we can get. Just as we don't tie Mailman to a specific MTA, I'd like to not tie Mailman3 to a specific database/persistence technology. It should be possible to back MM3 against LDAP, MySQL, PostgreSQL, BerkeleyDB, or some combination depending on existing infrastructure. MM3 will come out of the box with /something/ because I still strongly believe in that philosophy. But it should be possible to say, replace the IAuthentication implementation with one that links users to your corporate LDAP database. This is why we need solid interfaces defining what information MM3 wants to store and retrieve, how to play nicely with transactions, and how to define data sources (and their options). We need to figure out the right breakdown of storage requirements. The hope then is that we can define these interfaces, and then the MySQL experts can go and implement their version of it, as can the BerkeleyDB experts, the ZODB experts, and the LDAP experts. -Barry From barry at python.org Mon Feb 2 23:04:17 2004 From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw) Date: Mon Feb 2 23:04:31 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] A bit of perspective .... In-Reply-To: <20040131165658.ayumtq4g84w0804k@george.warnica> References: <401ABB59.6080101@bellanet.org> <20040131145357.rydfbskgkw48og80@george.warnica> <269B3300-5421-11D8-B9A7-0003934516A8@plaidworks.com> <200401311135.20670.moron@industrial.org> <20040131165658.ayumtq4g84w0804k@george.warnica> Message-ID: <1075781057.30388.27.camel@anthem> On Sat, 2004-01-31 at 15:56, Jeff Warnica wrote: > I suppose it can be, but it is a question of where you implement your security. > If mailman is to use SQL to store preferences then it is up to mm to deal with > what records a user can update. If the mm interface to LDAP goes through one > master LDAP account, then it is still mm's job... But if mm binds to LDAP as > the mm user, then security is the responsibility of the LDAP server. With > OpenLDAP, and NDS permissions can be extreemly fine grained, down to the > attribute level. Ive not so much as seen ADS running anywhere, but I can only > assume that it does too. > > How secure an admin might want to make it is likely to be related to what else, > if anything, their LDAP directory is being used for. A hypothetical site with > 10,000 users in NDS, and 100,000 other things (printers, queues....), which > they have been using for a decade, may be very restrictive. Another site > installing MM+LDAP for fun as much as anything else, might just give the MM > user unlimited rights. It's things like this that give me the willies and keeps me up at night. It's already more difficult than I'd like for the average joe to install Mailman and integrate it with all the other moving parts. By using A Real Database, we have to accept that it will be even more difficult because there isn't any such db that I'm aware of that is fully transactional but requires no administration. Say one thing about MM2's crufty pickle storage, but it's brain dead easy and requires no administrative overhead. Of course it doesn't scale, which is why it's acceptable to add some overhead, but forcing most users to deal with stuff like the above is more than we should ask of them. -Barry From barry at python.org Mon Feb 2 23:21:57 2004 From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw) Date: Mon Feb 2 23:22:04 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] What was Chuq just saying about spam? Message-ID: <1075782117.30388.31.camel@anthem> Some interesting notes from a Spamcon2004 attendee. I wasn't able to make it this year. -Barry http://www.emailoverload.com/antispam/2004SpamConfNotes.html From my at freexp.de Tue Feb 3 06:40:00 2004 From: my at freexp.de (Michael Heydekamp) Date: Tue Feb 3 06:58:07 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Translation F'up2 => Reply-To In-Reply-To: <91v3LySKpwB@my.freexp.de> References: <91v3LySKpwB@my.freexp.de> Message-ID: <92A7dTv$pwB@my.freexp.de> Is really no developer able to answer this?? Michael Heydekamp wrote on 31.01.04: > Hi, > anybody here who could deliver Python code for the following? > In news2mail direction, I'd like to "translate" the F'up2 header > (containing one or more newsgroups) to the Reply-To: header by > preserving any already existing Reply-To addresses. > One of four mailing lists is assigned to each of four newsgroups > respectively. These mailing list addresses shall be concatenated to > the Reply-To: header. Other arbitrary newsgroups in the F'up2 header > should simply be disregarded. > In mail2news direction I managed this by tweaking the INN filter, but > I'm far beyond from being that familiar with Python as I am with > Perl. > Some example code to start with would already help. Michael From kmccann at bellanet.org Tue Feb 3 08:45:55 2004 From: kmccann at bellanet.org (Kevin McCann) Date: Tue Feb 3 08:46:06 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] AOL's requirements for spam complaints In-Reply-To: References: <401A6185.2080003@bellanet.org> <1075493165.1075.157.camel@anthem> <1075716175.7991.17.camel@angua.localnet> Message-ID: <401FA613.9030600@bellanet.org> Brad Knowles wrote: > > I've been looking at the requirements and potential performance > you can get with Lyris ListManager, MailEngine, etc.... See > and > for the > respective requirements, and > for an idea > of what kind of performance they can offer. Another article, which might be OT to the thread but nevertheless interesting: http://john.redmood.com/osfastest.html It is co-authored by a Lyris dude and looks at OS choices and performance-related sub-topics. - Kevin From skip at pobox.com Tue Feb 3 08:49:31 2004 From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro) Date: Tue Feb 3 08:49:38 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Admins not getting admin messages Message-ID: <16415.42731.619149.176415@montanaro.dyndns.org> I'm sorry to bomb this list with user issues. I've sent a couple notes to mailman-users about this and received no responses, not even "i don't know" or "what have you been smokin'?" mails. After upgrading from MM 2.0 to 2.1 several months ago, admin messages (pending subscriptions, mail from non-members) stopped going to the three of us who administer the cedu mailing list. We don't learn about this stuff until the daily summary of administrative requests comes out. Furthermore, mail sent to the cedu-admin address generates an uncaught bounce notification. We used to use that address to communicate amongst ourselves. The alias definitions for the list are cedu: "|/etc/smrsh/mailman post cedu" cedu-admin: "|/etc/smrsh/mailman admin cedu" cedu-bounces: "|/etc/smrsh/mailman bounces cedu" cedu-confirm: "|/etc/smrsh/mailman confirm cedu" cedu-join: "|/etc/smrsh/mailman join cedu" cedu-leave: "|/etc/smrsh/mailman leave cedu" cedu-owner: "|/etc/smrsh/mailman owner cedu" cedu-request: "|/etc/smrsh/mailman request cedu" cedu-subscribe: "|/etc/smrsh/mailman subscribe cedu" cedu-unsubscribe: "|/etc/smrsh/mailman unsubscribe cedu" /etc/smrsh/mailman is a symlink to /home/mailman21/mail/mailman. Mail sent to the cedu-owner address seems to go to all three of us. What I don't understand is what the cedu-admin address is for and where the admin messages are going. It seems clear that I missed something during the 2.0->2.1 upgrade, but I'm at a loss to see what. Any guidance would be much appreciated. Thanks, -- Skip Montanaro Got gigs? http://www.musi-cal.com/submit.html Got spam? http://spambayes.sf.net/ skip@pobox.com From illmnec at sympatico.ca Tue Feb 3 09:50:01 2004 From: illmnec at sympatico.ca (Stefan Michalowski) Date: Tue Feb 3 09:45:22 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Well-formed and valid HTML Message-ID: <401FB519.4010200@sympatico.ca> Hi, I would like to rewrite the mailman HTML templates so that they are well-formed and valid HTML (preferably XHTML 1.0). I started doing this but then noticed that some of the HTML is generated inside python code. Because gettext is used for i18n, I know that if I modify the text inside python, it will break all the translations that have been done. I'm guessing that the 3.0 release will need a rewrite of the translations anyway, but what is the status of this release? Is it worth working on the 2.1.x templates or will the 2.1.x be obsolete very soon. I also noticed that there is a 2.2 release in the works. When will this release be ready? Would it be better to rewrite the templates for that release? Regards, -- +-------------------------------------------------------+ | | | Stefan Michalowski, M. Sc. | | ------------------ | | Email: illmnec@sympatico.ca | | GPG Key: http://screamerone.zapto.org/k.asc | | ---------------------------------- | | "Provider of Open Paradigm Shifts" | | | +-------------------------------------------------------+ From barry at python.org Tue Feb 3 14:43:53 2004 From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw) Date: Tue Feb 3 14:44:00 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Admins not getting admin messages In-Reply-To: <16415.42731.619149.176415@montanaro.dyndns.org> References: <16415.42731.619149.176415@montanaro.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <1075837433.482.49.camel@anthem> On Tue, 2004-02-03 at 08:49, Skip Montanaro wrote: > After upgrading from MM 2.0 to 2.1 several months ago, admin messages > (pending subscriptions, mail from non-members) stopped going to the three of > us who administer the cedu mailing list. We don't learn about this stuff > until the daily summary of administrative requests comes out. Furthermore, > mail sent to the cedu-admin address generates an uncaught bounce > notification. We used to use that address to communicate amongst ourselves. > The alias definitions for the list are > > cedu: "|/etc/smrsh/mailman post cedu" > cedu-admin: "|/etc/smrsh/mailman admin cedu" > cedu-bounces: "|/etc/smrsh/mailman bounces cedu" > cedu-confirm: "|/etc/smrsh/mailman confirm cedu" > cedu-join: "|/etc/smrsh/mailman join cedu" > cedu-leave: "|/etc/smrsh/mailman leave cedu" > cedu-owner: "|/etc/smrsh/mailman owner cedu" > cedu-request: "|/etc/smrsh/mailman request cedu" > cedu-subscribe: "|/etc/smrsh/mailman subscribe cedu" > cedu-unsubscribe: "|/etc/smrsh/mailman unsubscribe cedu" > > /etc/smrsh/mailman is a symlink to /home/mailman21/mail/mailman. > > Mail sent to the cedu-owner address seems to go to all three of us. What I > don't understand is what the cedu-admin address is for and where the admin > messages are going. > > It seems clear that I missed something during the 2.0->2.1 upgrade, but I'm > at a loss to see what. Any guidance would be much appreciated. In MM2.1, the -admin address is an alias for -bounces not -owner. This is primarily for backwards compatibility reasons. Note however that immediate admin notifications should go to the -owner address, not -admin. In fact, you should treat -admin as deprecated; eventually it will go away. In the General admin page, check the value for admin_immed_notify. That controls whether you get those pending subscription notifications and such. -Barry From barry at python.org Tue Feb 3 14:50:45 2004 From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw) Date: Tue Feb 3 14:50:54 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Well-formed and valid HTML In-Reply-To: <401FB519.4010200@sympatico.ca> References: <401FB519.4010200@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <1075837844.482.57.camel@anthem> On Tue, 2004-02-03 at 09:50, Stefan Michalowski wrote: > I'm guessing that the 3.0 release will need a rewrite of the > translations anyway, but what is the status of this release? Is it worth > working on the 2.1.x templates or will the 2.1.x be obsolete very soon. Personally, I don't think it's worth working on the 2.1 HTML. I don't think 3.0 will be out any time soon, although I would love to see some alphas and perhaps a beta by the end of this year. > I also noticed that there is a 2.2 release in the works. When will this > release be ready? Would it be better to rewrite the templates for that > release? While I haven't completely written off a 2.2, given the current level of resources I have to throw at things, 2.2 isn't a reality. I'm trying to concentrate on solidifying 2.1 and getting 3.0 to a reasonable state. I'm very seriously considering using ZPT as the out-of-the-box templating language for MM3. It supports i18n which is a huge plus. In that case, I will definitely want help in making MM3's HTML not only standards conformant, but nice and pretty too. CSS will be acceptable, and my natural resistance to JavaScript is decaying (/if/ MM3's interface can be made to degrade gracefully when JS is turned off). -Barry From barry at python.org Tue Feb 3 15:12:01 2004 From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw) Date: Tue Feb 3 15:12:08 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Small patch to templates/en/verify.txt In-Reply-To: <20040203004252.GQ16958@psilocybe.teonanacatl.org> References: <20040203004252.GQ16958@psilocybe.teonanacatl.org> Message-ID: <1075839121.482.76.camel@anthem> On Mon, 2004-02-02 at 19:42, Todd wrote: > Here is a very simple patch to correct a small typo I noticed in > templates/en/verify.txt. It's included below and attached as a > unified diff against the current CVS, just in case that makes some > developers life a little easier. > > -If you do not wish to be subscribed from this list, please simply > +If you do not wish to be subscribed to this list, please simply > > Thanks as always for the great software! Thanks for the patch, and you're welcome! -Barry From skip at pobox.com Tue Feb 3 16:00:04 2004 From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro) Date: Tue Feb 3 16:00:16 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Admins not getting admin messages In-Reply-To: <1075837433.482.49.camel@anthem> References: <16415.42731.619149.176415@montanaro.dyndns.org> <1075837433.482.49.camel@anthem> Message-ID: <16416.3028.213612.832932@montanaro.dyndns.org> Barry> In MM2.1, the -admin address is an alias for -bounces not -owner. Thanks for this clarification. Barry> In the General admin page, check the value for Barry> admin_immed_notify. That controls whether you get those pending Barry> subscription notifications and such. That's already set to Yes... :-/ Skip From barry at python.org Tue Feb 3 16:12:04 2004 From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw) Date: Tue Feb 3 16:19:33 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Admins not getting admin messages In-Reply-To: <16416.3028.213612.832932@montanaro.dyndns.org> References: <16415.42731.619149.176415@montanaro.dyndns.org> <1075837433.482.49.camel@anthem> <16416.3028.213612.832932@montanaro.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <1075842723.482.93.camel@anthem> On Tue, 2004-02-03 at 16:00, Skip Montanaro wrote: > Barry> In the General admin page, check the value for > Barry> admin_immed_notify. That controls whether you get those pending > Barry> subscription notifications and such. > > That's already set to Yes... :-/ Hmm. -Barry From skip at pobox.com Tue Feb 3 16:40:02 2004 From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro) Date: Tue Feb 3 16:40:12 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Admins not getting admin messages In-Reply-To: <1075842723.482.93.camel@anthem> References: <16415.42731.619149.176415@montanaro.dyndns.org> <1075837433.482.49.camel@anthem> <16416.3028.213612.832932@montanaro.dyndns.org> <1075842723.482.93.camel@anthem> Message-ID: <16416.5426.59213.311663@montanaro.dyndns.org> Barry> In the General admin page, check the value for Barry> admin_immed_notify. >> That's already set to Yes... :-/ Barry> Hmm. My sentiments exactly. I'm not at all familiar with the Mailman source code, but it appears that the decision to send out an admin message is made in Mailman.Handlers.Hold. hold_for_approval(). That code suggests that the MessageHeld exception is always raised, even if mlist.admin_immed_notify is 1. Am I missing something? It appears I'm looking at 2.1.0 sources: MAJOR_REV = 2 MINOR_REV = 1 MICRO_REV = 0 (I thought I was running 2.1.2, but apparently not.) Maybe I just need to upgrade. Let me try this first before you spend anymore time thinking about it. Skip From my at freexp.de Tue Feb 3 16:53:00 2004 From: my at freexp.de (Michael Heydekamp) Date: Tue Feb 3 16:55:54 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Small patch to templates/en/verify.txt In-Reply-To: <1075839121.482.76.camel@anthem> References: <20040203004252.GQ16958@psilocybe.teonanacatl.org> <1075839121.482.76.camel@anthem> Message-ID: <92A8Yz8$pwB@my.freexp.de> Barry Warsaw wrote on 03.02.04: > On Mon, 2004-02-02 at 19:42, Todd wrote: >> -If you do not wish to be subscribed from this list, please simply >> +If you do not wish to be subscribed to this list, please simply >> Thanks as always for the great software! > Thanks for the patch, and you're welcome! Well, I can deliver tons of such kinda fixes for the German translation in the meantime, if there should be any interest. If somebody would just care also about *my* questions here... Michael From brad.knowles at skynet.be Tue Feb 3 15:53:56 2004 From: brad.knowles at skynet.be (Brad Knowles) Date: Tue Feb 3 17:28:54 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] AOL's requirements for spam complaints In-Reply-To: <401FA613.9030600@bellanet.org> References: <401A6185.2080003@bellanet.org> <1075493165.1075.157.camel@anthem> <1075716175.7991.17.camel@angua.localnet> <401FA613.9030600@bellanet.org> Message-ID: At 8:45 AM -0500 2004/02/03, Kevin McCann wrote: > Another article, which might be OT to the thread but nevertheless >interesting: > > http://john.redmood.com/osfastest.html > > It is co-authored by a Lyris dude and looks at OS choices > and performance-related sub-topics. I was wondering when someone would bring that up. I saw that article. I tore them several new openings, and did the same for Amber Ankerholtz (publisher of _SysAdmin_) for allowing such garbage to be published in her magazine. Basically, these guys don't know crap, and they were using the article as an advertisement for their stuff. They should have stuck to the OSes they know and not bothered with trying to include things that they know nothing about. I've tried to write decent quality articles for _SysAdmin_ in the past, but Amber's editorial team really let me down, and I have now sworn off them. I am working on a book on a different subject, and I've got a booklet idea in the wings on a more closely related subject. -- Brad Knowles, "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania. GCS/IT d+(-) s:+(++)>: a C++(+++)$ UMBSHI++++$ P+>++ L+ !E-(---) W+++(--) N+ !w--- O- M++ V PS++(+++) PE- Y+(++) PGP>+++ t+(+++) 5++(+++) X++(+++) R+(+++) tv+(+++) b+(++++) DI+(++++) D+(++) G+(++++) e++>++++ h--- r---(+++)* z(+++) From barry at python.org Tue Feb 3 17:57:14 2004 From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw) Date: Tue Feb 3 17:57:24 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Small patch to templates/en/verify.txt In-Reply-To: <92A8Yz8$pwB@my.freexp.de> References: <20040203004252.GQ16958@psilocybe.teonanacatl.org> <1075839121.482.76.camel@anthem> <92A8Yz8$pwB@my.freexp.de> Message-ID: <1075849034.482.123.camel@anthem> On Tue, 2004-02-03 at 16:53, Michael Heydekamp wrote: > Well, I can deliver tons of such kinda fixes for the German translation > in the meantime, if there should be any interest. You should work with Peer on any German updates, since he's the current champion. > If somebody would just care also about *my* questions here... I'll try, but please understand, I get /a lot/ of mail. -Barry From my at freexp.de Tue Feb 3 18:07:00 2004 From: my at freexp.de (Michael Heydekamp) Date: Tue Feb 3 18:09:34 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Small patch to templates/en/verify.txt In-Reply-To: <1075849034.482.123.camel@anthem> References: <1075849034.482.123.camel@anthem> Message-ID: <92E8vLB$pwB@my.freexp.de> Barry Warsaw to Michael Heydekamp on 03.02.04: > On Tue, 2004-02-03 at 16:53, Michael Heydekamp wrote: >> Well, I can deliver tons of such kinda fixes for the German >> translation in the meantime, if there should be any interest. > You should work with Peer on any German updates, since he's the > current champion. I know Peer as a good server admin, but in terms of German language I have not seen anything in Mailman that looks like that "champions" might have worked on that stuff (it was obviously not Peer only, BTW). No offense, just what I'm seeing. >> If somebody would just care also about *my* questions here... > I'll try, but please understand, I get /a lot/ of mail. I know, same here. But an answer to my posts wouldn't require that much text as for AOL discussions and the like, just a few lines of code (F'up2 => Reply-To) and a short explanation why the monthly passwd reminder has not been sent out. Hopefully not too technical for a developers' list? ;) Michael From barry at python.org Tue Feb 3 18:32:25 2004 From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw) Date: Tue Feb 3 18:32:35 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Small patch to templates/en/verify.txt In-Reply-To: <92E8vLB$pwB@my.freexp.de> References: <1075849034.482.123.camel@anthem> <92E8vLB$pwB@my.freexp.de> Message-ID: <1075851145.482.137.camel@anthem> On Tue, 2004-02-03 at 18:07, Michael Heydekamp wrote: > I know Peer as a good server admin, but in terms of German language I > have not seen anything in Mailman that looks like that "champions" might > have worked on that stuff (it was obviously not Peer only, BTW). > > No offense, just what I'm seeing. The point is, Peer's the coordinator for the German translation. So changes should be vetted by him. Peer has commit privileges so he can simply make any agreed upon changes to the German text without me being the bottleneck. -Barry From les at 2pi.org Wed Feb 4 14:09:39 2004 From: les at 2pi.org (Les Niles) Date: Wed Feb 4 14:09:45 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Is the config.pck.last logic correct? Message-ID: <200402041909.i14J9d7e056305@grumman.kjsl.com> Our list server had another crash the other day, this time it really toasted a couple of lists. :( (No, we hadn't yet done any of the mitigation steps that we should've, at least none that worked....) What happens is that some of the config.pck files get trashed by having the last part of the file overwritten with nul bytes. I'm assuming that it's a filesystem corruption causing this, perhaps involving disk hardware errors. By the time the problem is apparent, the config.pck and config.pck.last files are both trashed -- they're identical, with identical timestamps. I've looked at the logic for loading and saving config.pck, and don't see how this can happen. It seems like config.pck.last gets replaced only when the list data is saved, which should only happen at some point after the list data is successfully loaded. So there should be good data to generate the config.pck, otherwise config.pck.last should be left alone. But there seems to be some flaw in the logic, that I can't see, because both files are ending up trashed. Then again, I've clearly demonstrated an overwhelming stupidity by letting these crashes happen many times until finally something really nasty occurred, so maybe I'm just too stupid to look at the code. Or maybe something entirely different is happening. If the pickle-save itself is corrupted in a way that isn't being caught, then I suppose the bad config.pck will happily by turned into an equally bad config.pck.last. Obviously I don't have a reproducible test case for this, but maybe someone has some idea of what's going on, and how to improve the robustness. -les From dan at langille.org Thu Feb 5 12:40:01 2004 From: dan at langille.org (Dan Langille) Date: Thu Feb 5 12:40:04 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Empty module name Message-ID: <402239A1.20289.A8D5AE@localhost> I'm running mailman-2.1.3 with postfix-2.0.16,1 on FreeBSD 4.9. Mailman was installed a few months ago. A few days ago, mail stopped being delivered. Viewing /var/log/maillog, I can see the mail is coming in, but never being delivered. In mailman/log/errors, I see this. Feb 02 16:19:01 2004 (33670) uncaught archiver exception at filepos: 0 Feb 02 16:19:01 2004 (33670) Uncaught runner exception: Empty module name Feb 02 16:19:01 2004 (33670) Traceback (most recent call last): File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 110, in _oneloop self._onefile(msg, msgdata) File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 160, in _onefile keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata) File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/ArchRunner.py", line 73, in _dispose mlist.ArchiveMail(msg) File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/Archiver.py", line 208, in ArchiveMail h.processUnixMailbox(f) File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/pipermail.py", line 544, in processUnixMailbox m = mbox.next() File "/usr/local/lib/python2.3/mailbox.py", line 35, in next return self.factory(_Subfile(self.fp, start, stop)) File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Mailbox.py", line 89, in scrubber return mailbox.scrub(msg) File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Mailbox.py", line 109, in scrub return self._scrubber(self._mlist, msg) File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/Scrubber.py", line 311, in process t = t.encode(charset, 'replace') File "/usr/local/lib/python2.3/encodings/__init__.py", line 84, in search_function globals(), locals(), _import_tail) ValueError: Empty module name >From the archives, I see this is not a new problem, and found a patch at http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman- developers@python.org/msg06317.html. I applied the patch and recompiled: cd /usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Handlers python -c "import py_compile as p; p.compile('Scrubber.py')" I then ran unshunt and saw the errors continue. FWIW, I also retstarted the qrunners and tried again. Same symptoms. This problem has been raised before and seem to becoming more common. I found these recent references: https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=100103&aid=871050&gr oup_id=103 http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users@python.org/msg21490.html Any suggestions please? -- Dan Langille : http://www.langille.org/ BSDCan - http://www.bsdcan.org/ From my at freexp.de Thu Feb 5 16:47:00 2004 From: my at freexp.de (Michael Heydekamp) Date: Thu Feb 5 16:48:55 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] cronpass.txt error In-Reply-To: <9266SKI4pwB@my.freexp.de> References: <9266SKI4pwB@my.freexp.de> Message-ID: <92IBv1B4pwB@my.freexp.de> Michael Heydekamp wrote on 02.02.04: > cronpass.txt has not been sent out this month. Can anybody explain > what's going wrong here? > ----------8<---------- >> Traceback (most recent call last): >> File "/usr/lib/mailman/cron/mailpasswds", line 238, in ? >> main() >> File "/usr/lib/mailman/cron/mailpasswds", line 214, in main >> text += (header + '\n' + NL.join(table)) >> UnicodeDecodeError: 'ascii' codec can't decode byte 0xdf in position 43: >> ordinal not in range(128) > ----------8<---------- As there was again no answer to this I did some investigation, found that mailman.mo is the reason for this problem, plowed through a 180k diff file which contained all the changes I made to mailman.po and isolated the offending line: ----------8<---------- @@ -11693,7 +11691,7 @@ # Mailman/Cgi/confirm.py:203 Mailman/Cgi/options.py:658 #: cron/mailpasswds:198 msgid "Password // URL" -msgstr "Passwort // URL" +msgstr "Pa?wort // URL" # Mailman/Deliverer.py:103 #: cron/mailpasswds:221 ----------8<---------- Which means that this line (which is appended to cronpass.txt) may not contain the character "?" - or probably even no 8bit characters at all. Well, because...? Anyway, looks like a bug to me. Michael From my at freexp.de Thu Feb 5 16:53:00 2004 From: my at freexp.de (Michael Heydekamp) Date: Thu Feb 5 16:54:37 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] cronpass.txt error In-Reply-To: <92IBv1B4pwB@my.freexp.de> References: <9266SKI4pwB@my.freexp.de> <92IBv1B4pwB@my.freexp.de> Message-ID: <92IBzdDKpwB@my.freexp.de> Michael Heydekamp wrote on 05.02.04: [...] > ----------8<---------- > @@ -11693,7 +11691,7 @@ > # Mailman/Cgi/confirm.py:203 Mailman/Cgi/options.py:658 > #: cron/mailpasswds:198 > msgid "Password // URL" > -msgstr "Passwort // URL" > +msgstr "Pa?wort // URL" > # Mailman/Deliverer.py:103 > #: cron/mailpasswds:221 > ----------8<---------- > Which means that this line (which is appended to cronpass.txt) may > not contain the character "?" - or probably even no 8bit characters > at all. Forgot to ask: Are there any other places in mailman.po where this problem might occur? Michael From tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp Thu Feb 5 21:12:58 2004 From: tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp (Tokio Kikuchi) Date: Thu Feb 5 21:13:23 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Empty module name In-Reply-To: <402239A1.20289.A8D5AE@localhost> References: <402239A1.20289.A8D5AE@localhost> Message-ID: <4022F82A.6040302@is.kochi-u.ac.jp> Hi, Try this patch; http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=891491&group_id=103&atid=300103 Dan Langille wrote: > I'm running mailman-2.1.3 with postfix-2.0.16,1 on FreeBSD 4.9. > Mailman was installed a few months ago. A few days ago, mail stopped > being delivered. Viewing /var/log/maillog, I can see the mail is > coming in, but never being delivered. > > In mailman/log/errors, I see this. > > Feb 02 16:19:01 2004 (33670) uncaught archiver exception at filepos: > 0 > Feb 02 16:19:01 2004 (33670) Uncaught runner exception: Empty module > name > Feb 02 16:19:01 2004 (33670) Traceback (most recent call last): > File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 110, in > _oneloop > self._onefile(msg, msgdata) > File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 160, in > _onefile > keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata) > File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/ArchRunner.py", line 73, in > _dispose > mlist.ArchiveMail(msg) > File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/Archiver.py", line 208, > in ArchiveMail > h.processUnixMailbox(f) > File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/pipermail.py", line 544, > in processUnixMailbox > m = mbox.next() > File "/usr/local/lib/python2.3/mailbox.py", line 35, in next > return self.factory(_Subfile(self.fp, start, stop)) > File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Mailbox.py", line 89, in scrubber > return mailbox.scrub(msg) > File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Mailbox.py", line 109, in scrub > return self._scrubber(self._mlist, msg) > File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/Scrubber.py", line 311, > in process > t = t.encode(charset, 'replace') > File "/usr/local/lib/python2.3/encodings/__init__.py", line 84, in > search_function > globals(), locals(), _import_tail) > ValueError: Empty module name > >>From the archives, I see this is not a new problem, and found a patch > at http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman- > developers@python.org/msg06317.html. > > I applied the patch and recompiled: > > cd /usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Handlers > python -c "import py_compile as p; p.compile('Scrubber.py')" > > I then ran unshunt and saw the errors continue. FWIW, I also > retstarted the qrunners and tried again. Same symptoms. > > This problem has been raised before and seem to becoming more common. > I found these recent references: > > https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=100103&aid=871050&gr > oup_id=103 > http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users@python.org/msg21490.html > > Any suggestions please? -- Tokio Kikuchi, tkikuchi@ is.kochi-u.ac.jp http://weather.is.kochi-u.ac.jp/ From dan at langille.org Thu Feb 5 21:29:47 2004 From: dan at langille.org (Dan Langille) Date: Thu Feb 5 21:29:50 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Empty module name In-Reply-To: <4022F82A.6040302@is.kochi-u.ac.jp> References: <402239A1.20289.A8D5AE@localhost> <4022F82A.6040302@is.kochi-u.ac.jp> Message-ID: <20040205212921.G53651@xeon.unixathome.org> On Fri, 6 Feb 2004, Tokio Kikuchi wrote: > Hi, > > Try this patch; > > http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=891491&group_id=103&atid=300103 That patch gave this result: ]# patch < ../../scrubber.patch Hmm... Looks like a unified diff to me... The text leading up to this was: -------------------------- |Index: Scrubber.py |=================================================================== |RCS file: /cvsroot/mailman/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/Scrubber.py,v |retrieving revision 2.18.2.6 |diff -u -r2.18.2.6 Scrubber.py |--- Scrubber.py 1 Dec 2003 01:43:18 -0000 2.18.2.6 |+++ Scrubber.py 6 Feb 2004 00:24:20 -0000 -------------------------- Patching file Scrubber.py using Plan A... Hunk #1 succeeded at 27. Hunk #2 succeeded at 172 (offset -8 lines). Hunk #3 succeeded at 293 (offset -8 lines). Hunk #4 failed at 302. Hunk #5 succeeded at 348 with fuzz 1 (offset 2 lines). 1 out of 5 hunks failed--saving rejects to Scrubber.py.rej done I'm looking at the failure now. > > > Dan Langille wrote: > > > I'm running mailman-2.1.3 with postfix-2.0.16,1 on FreeBSD 4.9. > > Mailman was installed a few months ago. A few days ago, mail stopped > > being delivered. Viewing /var/log/maillog, I can see the mail is > > coming in, but never being delivered. > > > > In mailman/log/errors, I see this. > > > > Feb 02 16:19:01 2004 (33670) uncaught archiver exception at filepos: > > 0 > > Feb 02 16:19:01 2004 (33670) Uncaught runner exception: Empty module > > name > > Feb 02 16:19:01 2004 (33670) Traceback (most recent call last): > > File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 110, in > > _oneloop > > self._onefile(msg, msgdata) > > File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 160, in > > _onefile > > keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata) > > File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/ArchRunner.py", line 73, in > > _dispose > > mlist.ArchiveMail(msg) > > File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/Archiver.py", line 208, > > in ArchiveMail > > h.processUnixMailbox(f) > > File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/pipermail.py", line 544, > > in processUnixMailbox > > m = mbox.next() > > File "/usr/local/lib/python2.3/mailbox.py", line 35, in next > > return self.factory(_Subfile(self.fp, start, stop)) > > File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Mailbox.py", line 89, in scrubber > > return mailbox.scrub(msg) > > File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Mailbox.py", line 109, in scrub > > return self._scrubber(self._mlist, msg) > > File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/Scrubber.py", line 311, > > in process > > t = t.encode(charset, 'replace') > > File "/usr/local/lib/python2.3/encodings/__init__.py", line 84, in > > search_function > > globals(), locals(), _import_tail) > > ValueError: Empty module name > > > >>From the archives, I see this is not a new problem, and found a patch > > at http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman- > > developers@python.org/msg06317.html. > > > > I applied the patch and recompiled: > > > > cd /usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Handlers > > python -c "import py_compile as p; p.compile('Scrubber.py')" > > > > I then ran unshunt and saw the errors continue. FWIW, I also > > retstarted the qrunners and tried again. Same symptoms. > > > > This problem has been raised before and seem to becoming more common. > > I found these recent references: > > > > https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=100103&aid=871050&gr > > oup_id=103 > > http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users@python.org/msg21490.html > > > > Any suggestions please? > > -- > Tokio Kikuchi, tkikuchi@ is.kochi-u.ac.jp > http://weather.is.kochi-u.ac.jp/ > From gordonr at gormand.com.au Thu Feb 5 21:44:05 2004 From: gordonr at gormand.com.au (Gordon Rowell) Date: Thu Feb 5 21:44:14 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] VERP subscription confirmations Message-ID: <20040205214405.V17978@gormand.com.au> If I enable VERP_CONFIRMATIONS and "Invite" someone from the admin page, I get a VERP invite and a "nice" Subject line: From: info-confirm-3f4ccbbd8f891afd9fdb167e397a527e57db546c@lists.xxx To: gordonr@gormand.com.au Subject: You have been invited to join the Info mailing list Which is good. However, if I send mail to info-subscribe, I get a non-VERP invite and an "ugly" Subject line (so sayeth the users): From: info-request@lists.xxx To: gordonr@gormand.com.au Subject: confirm 33921aa138c41a218e6f76b3b3d866fcb411e1f7 It appears that the VERP confirmations are only partially implemented, but maybe I've missed something. I was thinking of doing something like this in MailList.py (be gentle - Python newbie): def GetRequestEmail(self, cookie=''): if (mm_cfg.VERP_CONFIRMATIONS == 'No') or (cookie == ''): return self.getListAddress('request') else: return self.GetConfirmEmail(cookie) and then replacing GetRequestEmail() calls with GetRequestEmail(cookie). In some places the call to GetRequestEmail() needs to be moved after the cookie generation. Before I go down that path, is there a simpler path, or am I going to break something else by VERPing all of the GetRequestEmail() calls? Thanks, Gordon -- Gordon Rowell Gordon.Rowell@gormand.com.au http://www.gormand.com.au Gormand Pty Ltd PO Box 239 St Pauls NSW 2031 Australia From tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp Thu Feb 5 21:44:13 2004 From: tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp (Tokio Kikuchi) Date: Thu Feb 5 21:44:23 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Empty module name In-Reply-To: <20040205212921.G53651@xeon.unixathome.org> References: <402239A1.20289.A8D5AE@localhost> <4022F82A.6040302@is.kochi-u.ac.jp> <20040205212921.G53651@xeon.unixathome.org> Message-ID: <4022FF7D.8070904@is.kochi-u.ac.jp> >>Hi, >> >>Try this patch; >> >>http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=891491&group_id=103&atid=300103 > > > That patch gave this result: > > ]# patch < ../../scrubber.patch > Hunk #4 failed at 302. > Hunk #5 succeeded at 348 with fuzz 1 (offset 2 lines). > 1 out of 5 hunks failed--saving rejects to Scrubber.py.rej > done > > I'm looking at the failure now. > >>>I'm running mailman-2.1.3 with postfix-2.0.16,1 on FreeBSD 4.9. Oh, you are running older version. You had better update to version 2.1.4 before applying the patch. (There are other fixes I believe) -- Tokio Kikuchi, tkikuchi@ is.kochi-u.ac.jp http://weather.is.kochi-u.ac.jp/ From dan at langille.org Thu Feb 5 21:48:15 2004 From: dan at langille.org (Dan Langille) Date: Thu Feb 5 21:48:25 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Empty module name In-Reply-To: <20040205212921.G53651@xeon.unixathome.org> References: <402239A1.20289.A8D5AE@localhost> <4022F82A.6040302@is.kochi-u.ac.jp> <20040205212921.G53651@xeon.unixathome.org> Message-ID: <20040205214658.V53651@xeon.unixathome.org> On Thu, 5 Feb 2004, Dan Langille wrote: > On Fri, 6 Feb 2004, Tokio Kikuchi wrote: > > > Hi, > > > > Try this patch; > > > > http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=891491&group_id=103&atid=300103 > > That patch gave this result: > > ]# patch < ../../scrubber.patch > Hmm... Looks like a unified diff to me... > The text leading up to this was: > -------------------------- > |Index: Scrubber.py > |=================================================================== > |RCS file: /cvsroot/mailman/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/Scrubber.py,v > |retrieving revision 2.18.2.6 > |diff -u -r2.18.2.6 Scrubber.py > |--- Scrubber.py 1 Dec 2003 01:43:18 -0000 2.18.2.6 > |+++ Scrubber.py 6 Feb 2004 00:24:20 -0000 > -------------------------- > Patching file Scrubber.py using Plan A... > Hunk #1 succeeded at 27. > Hunk #2 succeeded at 172 (offset -8 lines). > Hunk #3 succeeded at 293 (offset -8 lines). > Hunk #4 failed at 302. > Hunk #5 succeeded at 348 with fuzz 1 (offset 2 lines). > 1 out of 5 hunks failed--saving rejects to Scrubber.py.rej > done > > I'm looking at the failure now. I applied Hunk #4 by hand, recompiled with 'python -c "import py_compile as p; p.compile('Scrubber.py')"', and all seems well now. A few things left in shunt, but the majority of things have cleared out. Thank you. > > > > > > > Dan Langille wrote: > > > > > I'm running mailman-2.1.3 with postfix-2.0.16,1 on FreeBSD 4.9. > > > Mailman was installed a few months ago. A few days ago, mail stopped > > > being delivered. Viewing /var/log/maillog, I can see the mail is > > > coming in, but never being delivered. > > > > > > In mailman/log/errors, I see this. > > > > > > Feb 02 16:19:01 2004 (33670) uncaught archiver exception at filepos: > > > 0 > > > Feb 02 16:19:01 2004 (33670) Uncaught runner exception: Empty module > > > name > > > Feb 02 16:19:01 2004 (33670) Traceback (most recent call last): > > > File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 110, in > > > _oneloop > > > self._onefile(msg, msgdata) > > > File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 160, in > > > _onefile > > > keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata) > > > File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/ArchRunner.py", line 73, in > > > _dispose > > > mlist.ArchiveMail(msg) > > > File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/Archiver.py", line 208, > > > in ArchiveMail > > > h.processUnixMailbox(f) > > > File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/pipermail.py", line 544, > > > in processUnixMailbox > > > m = mbox.next() > > > File "/usr/local/lib/python2.3/mailbox.py", line 35, in next > > > return self.factory(_Subfile(self.fp, start, stop)) > > > File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Mailbox.py", line 89, in scrubber > > > return mailbox.scrub(msg) > > > File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Mailbox.py", line 109, in scrub > > > return self._scrubber(self._mlist, msg) > > > File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/Scrubber.py", line 311, > > > in process > > > t = t.encode(charset, 'replace') > > > File "/usr/local/lib/python2.3/encodings/__init__.py", line 84, in > > > search_function > > > globals(), locals(), _import_tail) > > > ValueError: Empty module name > > > > > >>From the archives, I see this is not a new problem, and found a patch > > > at http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman- > > > developers@python.org/msg06317.html. > > > > > > I applied the patch and recompiled: > > > > > > cd /usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Handlers > > > python -c "import py_compile as p; p.compile('Scrubber.py')" > > > > > > I then ran unshunt and saw the errors continue. FWIW, I also > > > retstarted the qrunners and tried again. Same symptoms. > > > > > > This problem has been raised before and seem to becoming more common. > > > I found these recent references: > > > > > > https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=100103&aid=871050&gr > > > oup_id=103 > > > http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users@python.org/msg21490.html > > > > > > Any suggestions please? > > > > -- > > Tokio Kikuchi, tkikuchi@ is.kochi-u.ac.jp > > http://weather.is.kochi-u.ac.jp/ > > > > _______________________________________________ > Mailman-Developers mailing list > Mailman-Developers@python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers > Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-developers/dan%40langille.org > From dan at langille.org Thu Feb 5 21:54:38 2004 From: dan at langille.org (Dan Langille) Date: Thu Feb 5 21:54:41 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Empty module name In-Reply-To: <4022FF7D.8070904@is.kochi-u.ac.jp> References: <402239A1.20289.A8D5AE@localhost> <4022F82A.6040302@is.kochi-u.ac.jp> <20040205212921.G53651@xeon.unixathome.org> <4022FF7D.8070904@is.kochi-u.ac.jp> Message-ID: <20040205215359.A53651@xeon.unixathome.org> On Fri, 6 Feb 2004, Tokio Kikuchi wrote: > > >>Hi, > >> > >>Try this patch; > >> > >>http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=891491&group_id=103&atid=300103 > > > > > > That patch gave this result: > > > > ]# patch < ../../scrubber.patch > > > Hunk #4 failed at 302. > > Hunk #5 succeeded at 348 with fuzz 1 (offset 2 lines). > > 1 out of 5 hunks failed--saving rejects to Scrubber.py.rej > > done > > > > I'm looking at the failure now. > > > >>>I'm running mailman-2.1.3 with postfix-2.0.16,1 on FreeBSD 4.9. > > Oh, you are running older version. You had better update > to version 2.1.4 before applying the patch. (There are other > fixes I believe) I will upgrade now and reapply the patch. I appreciate your help in solving this problem. From kmccann at bellanet.org Thu Feb 5 23:08:18 2004 From: kmccann at bellanet.org (Kevin McCann) Date: Thu Feb 5 22:46:06 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] SQL in MM3 issues Message-ID: <40231332.3090300@bellanet.org> For those who are interested in working on a MySQL and/or Postgres backend end for Mailman 3, I'd like to get some feedback on *very basic* notions. First, for me, the whole reason I want to see this SQL thing happen is so that I can have the three primary data tables at my "SQL select" disposal so that I can build Neat Things. Those data tables being 1) list configuration data, 2) member data, and 3) message archives. What kind of Neat Things require this, you ask? Well, let's say I wanna build this wonderful tool called "EZ-Groups." It has all sorts of great stuff: list info w/ archives, user profiles, documents, a calendar. You name it. All the stuff I want to have to build my happy communities. I wanna log into my EZ-Groups web site, which is powered by Mailman 3, of course. And once I log in, on the left hand side I want to see all of my groups (lists) listed on the left hand side. I then want to click on one of them and voila!, I see all sorts of info about the list. The purpose, how many members, and, of course, an index of most recent messages. I want to click on a message subject to view the message. I might even want to see profile information about the person who sent that message. If the list is configured as "members can view subscriber list" then I want to see a link which will allow me to see the list of subscribers ( I also get to see it if Im logged in as the list admin). And I want to do this - and much more - all on one site, with a common header and one display area. Basically a one-stop place for me to engage my various communities. Are you still reading this? If so, maybe you've thought about this stuff before. Or you're thinking "this kinda sounds like Yahoogroups." And if you have tried to build something like this before with an MLM that has various bits of data here and there in hard-to-get-at places, you know it's not a walk in the park. As it turns, out my colleagues and I *have* built something like this. We were able to do so with Lyris as the backend, a MS SQL database which contains all of the Lyris data - and I mean all of it - and the ColdFusion scripting language. This set up has allowed me to write some pretty neat Lyris data-accessing apps since 1998. I want to do this same kind of thing with Mailman 3. And so I want, at the very least, to have those three aforementioned tables of data: lists members messages Can anyone think of any reason why we would not want to have these three tables in a SQL-enabled Mailman 3. What other tables might you want to see? Or fields that might not be found in the above three tables? May I suggest that you be creative, think ahead, and don't restrict yourself by notions of what an MLM is in the here-and-now. If we can first agree on tables, maybe we can move forward and work on the core field sets for each one. And this will in turn give us something to chew on at the sprint. Barry does this approach make sense? Also, would it be better to set up a Wiki or another list somewhere for this topic (SQL-enabling Mailman3)? Thanks, Kevin From carbonnb at sympatico.ca Thu Feb 5 23:07:16 2004 From: carbonnb at sympatico.ca (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Thu Feb 5 23:07:22 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] SQL in MM3 issues In-Reply-To: <40231332.3090300@bellanet.org> Message-ID: <4022CCA4.9509.130C052@localhost> On 5 Feb 2004 at 23:08, Kevin McCann wrote: > I want to do this same kind of thing with Mailman 3. And so I want, at > the very least, to have those three aforementioned tables of data: > > lists > members > messages > > Can anyone think of any reason why we would not want to have these > three tables in a SQL-enabled Mailman 3. What other tables might you > want to see? Or fields that might not be found in the above three > tables? May I suggest that you be creative, think ahead, and don't > restrict yourself by notions of what an MLM is in the here-and-now. If > we can first agree on tables, maybe we can move forward and work on > the core field sets for each one. And this will in turn give us > something to chew on at the sprint. Barry does this approach make > sense? Funny you should mention this Kevin. :) I am a new Mailman admin and I was thinking about hacking something together to put my lists archives in a DB (MySQL more than likely). My first question to you is how normalized do you want to get? The archives, my gut is telling me that the message should be split over several tables. I'm just not sure how at the moment. I haven't really started planning anything, just rolling ideas around to myself., reading RFCs, Python Tutorials and the like. -- Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb@sympatico.ca I've learned.... That one should keep his words both soft and tender, because tomorrow he may have to eat them. From moron at industrial.org Fri Feb 6 00:04:47 2004 From: moron at industrial.org (moron) Date: Fri Feb 6 00:04:49 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] SQL in MM3 issues In-Reply-To: <40231332.3090300@bellanet.org> References: <40231332.3090300@bellanet.org> Message-ID: <200402052104.47600.moron@industrial.org> On February 5, 2004 08:08 pm, Kevin McCann wrote: > I want to do this same kind of thing with Mailman 3. And so I want, at > the very least, to have those three aforementioned tables of data: > > lists > members > messages Ok. Here is how I see these on a general level: members - a member belongs to any number of lists - a member has access permissions that denote status which can be assigned either on a per list or per group basis lists - list are arbitrary collections of members - lists can be summed into larger groups on the fly as appropriate - lists do not have to be static (for example "all members since this date") messages - messages are tied to a specific user but associated with a given list Important directives: 1. The user should be the core entity, not the list. A list should be treated as an association with users. This makes the flow of "what lists am I on?" and "what has Jane Doe posted?" a natural one. 2. Bounce handling should no longer have anything to do with a specific list. All bounces should be for the entire installation. You should have one password per installation, one log in per installation, etc. 3. Messages can be to more than one list since "lists" can be unions. This solves the "how do I notify everyone?" problem. So with these ideas in mind (obviously far from exhaustive, I am just thinking out loud) you would need the following tables: members - holds profile, global permissions, global status lists - holds list type (static, dynamic, union) - holds list status (active, inactive) - holds list attributes (moderated, unmoderated, etc.) - holds description details - holds template customizations membership - holds list id - holds member id - holds relationship (read only, post, moderated, last post, admin, whatever you want) messages - holds member id - holds message body (reference to file?) - holds message headers - holds message status message_to_list - holds message id - holds list id Now I can think of lots of other stuff as well but I am just not sure how much you plan to push into MySQL for MM3. If *everything* configuration wise is going unto MySQL, then you will need further tables too for the glue and for some other settings. What specific fields need to be in these tables of course is a whole other bag of hammers. Cheers -- ---> (culture) http://industrial.org : (label) http://deterrent.net ---> (community) http://ampfea.org : (hire me) http://codegrunt.com ---> (send EEEI news to) infosuck@industrial.org ---> Whomever dies with the most URLs wins!!!!!!!!!!!!! From allan at lxd1.asiandevbank.org Fri Feb 6 02:18:39 2004 From: allan at lxd1.asiandevbank.org (Ako Ito) Date: Fri Feb 6 02:18:44 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] mailman 2.1.4 problem Message-ID: <009501c3ec81$71dc5fb0$72a017ac@asiandevbank.org> hello gurus, encountered this problem below in one of my mailing list.. any ideas on how to resolve this? thanks Bug in Mailman version 2.1.4 We're sorry, we hit a bug! If you would like to help us identify the problem, please email a copy of this page to the webmaster for this site with a description of what happened. Thanks! Traceback: Traceback (most recent call last): File "/adb/data/pkg/mailman/2.1.3/scripts/driver", line 87, in run_main main() File "/adb/data/pkg/mailman/2.1.3/Mailman/Cgi/admin.py", line 198, in main show_results(mlist, doc, category, subcat, cgidata) File "/adb/data/pkg/mailman/2.1.3/Mailman/Cgi/admin.py", line 498, in show_results form.AddItem(membership_options(mlist, subcat, cgidata, doc, form)) File "/adb/data/pkg/mailman/2.1.3/Mailman/Cgi/admin.py", line 870, in membership_options all = [_m.encode() for _m in mlist.getMembers()] UnicodeError: ASCII decoding error: ordinal not in range(128) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Python information: Variable Value sys.version 2.2.2 (#1, Feb 24 2003, 19:13:11) [GCC 3.2.2 20030222 (Red Hat Linux 3.2.2-4)] sys.executable /usr/bin/python sys.prefix /usr sys.exec_prefix /usr sys.path /usr sys.platform linux2 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Environment variables: Variable Value HTTP_REFERER SCRIPT_FILENAME /pkg/mailman/2.1.3/cgi-bin/admin PYTHONPATH /pkg/mailman/2.1.3 SERVER_SOFTWARE Apache/2.0.48 (Unix) mod_ssl/2.0.48 OpenSSL/0.9.7b PHP/4.3.4 SERVER_ADMIN SCRIPT_NAME /mailman/admin SERVER_SIGNATURE Apache/2.0.48 (Unix) mod_ssl/2.0.48 OpenSSL/0.9.7b PHP/4.3.4 Server on example.com 80 REQUEST_METHOD GET HTTP_HOST PATH_INFO /waterforallnews/members SERVER_PROTOCOL HTTP/1.1 QUERY_STRING REQUEST_URI /mailman/admin/waterforallnews/members HTTP_ACCEPT */* HTTP_USER_AGENT Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows NT 5.1) HTTP_CONNECTION Keep-Alive HTTP_COOKIE watersports+admin=; homemakers+admin=; swrc+admin=; gis+admin=; waterforallnews+admin=28020000006925141f40732800000064306434613337636262623662323134653837376366376665653134303239333637373562626263 SERVER_NAME REMOTE_ADDR REMOTE_PORT 4079 HTTP_ACCEPT_LANGUAGE en-us PATH_TRANSLATED / SERVER_PORT 80 GATEWAY_INTERFACE CGI/1.1 HTTP_ACCEPT_ENCODING gzip, deflate SERVER_ADDR DOCUMENT_ROOT / From allan at lxd1.asiandevbank.org Fri Feb 6 02:19:09 2004 From: allan at lxd1.asiandevbank.org (Ako Ito) Date: Fri Feb 6 02:19:13 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] genaliases and templates problem Message-ID: <00a001c3ec81$83421bf0$72a017ac@asiandevbank.org> hello sirs, how can i add an entry whenever genaliases is executed it can add a field below with the unsub field.. in 2.1.3 i manually add it on the aliases file and upon issuing genaliases, but upon upgrading to 2.1.4 whenever i execute the genaliases script.. all manually added line on the aliases file gets discarded.. :-( example: "|mailman post example" example-admin: "|mailman admin example" example-bounces: "|mailman bounces example" example-confirm: "|mailman confirm example" example-join: "|mailman join example" example-leave: "|mailman leave example" example-owner: "|mailman owner example" example-request: "|mailman request example" example-subscribe: "|mailman subscribe example" example-unsubscribe: "|mailman unsubscribe example" example-unsub: "|mailman leave example" what do i need to edit to generate the extra line above.. and lastly.. they say that on mailman 2.1 templates can be configured per mailing list as opposed to the 2.0 version which whatever templates you edit it applies to all list.. how can i implement this... can i just copy the $mailman/templates/en on all mailing list and edit each templates per mailing list? thanks, allan From jplist at kiwigeek.com Fri Feb 6 11:39:03 2004 From: jplist at kiwigeek.com (JP Hindin) Date: Fri Feb 6 11:42:00 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] High memory usage of MailMan 2.1's runners Message-ID: Greetings all; I run a reasonably active mailing list service, with a fair number (read > 20) lists with subscriber numbers in the range of anywhere from 5,000 to 50,000. We are currenty migrating from an existing Majordomo service (That'd be another 20 lists to go to Mailman), and are pleased with how friendly Mailman seems to be with customers, not to mention configurable. Unfortunately Mailman seems to be a fairly serious resource hog. The CPU spikes I can handle, I realise that when you're churning out 50,000 mails you need a little processing power - but the memory usage seems a little excessive; When the mail starts a flowin', the memory starts a goin'. Currently I've had mailman running for 5 hours, and clearly have had a couple mailing lists go out - because Mailman is sucking up 405MB of memory. The worst culprits are BounceRunner with 56MB, IncomingRunner and VirginRunner with 105MB a piece and the OutgoingRunner with 112MB. I've seen mention of performance issues that most seem to be saying is just part of Mailman - but this seems a little silly. What suggestions do you folks have for relieving this... Is there much I can do? This seems highly suggestive of a memory leak somewhere, I can't imagine it should ever use this - and given I would call this a Bad Thing - what's on Mailmans plate in the future to alleviate this? Thanks for the insight; JP From barry at python.org Sun Feb 8 13:39:21 2004 From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw) Date: Sun Feb 8 13:39:30 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] RELEASED: Mailman 2.0.14 patch-only release Message-ID: <1076265561.3181.14.camel@anthem> I have just released Mailman 2.0.14 as a patch-only release. This fixes a DoS bug to be described in CAN-2003-0991. See here for details: https://sourceforge.net/project/shownotes.php?release_id=97760 Please note that since I am no longer actively maintaining Mailman 2.0, this release has had only limited testing. It is recommended that all sites running Mailman 2.0 upgrade to 2.1 where ever possible. For those sites that cannot upgrade, this patch may be useful. Also note that it is no longer possible to download tarballs of Mailman 2.0 from SourceForge. Enjoy, -Barry From zimmy at nc.rr.com Fri Feb 6 09:27:40 2004 From: zimmy at nc.rr.com (Mike Zimmerman) Date: Sun Feb 8 13:50:08 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Approve subscriptions by email? Message-ID: <20040206142740.190693B7806@zimmy.dyndns.org> New potential mailman user here... one functional requirement we have that I have not been able to pin down... - can I approve/deny subscription requests via email ? Our situation is a large club that has a club roster already, which contains email addrs for everyone. Thus we can automate the process of approve/deny by passing an "approve XYZ" email by comparing XYZ against our list. We have this arrangement working with Yahoogroups already (tho things get a bit flaky at times...), and while I haven't worked with a majordomo list in 10+ years, I remember it working this way too. So far I cannot find anything in the documentation about this, and searches of the mail archives have turned up only a few indefinite things. (sorry if I'm asking recurring question #1 or if I missed something obvious, but I did attempt a thorough search). I did find: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-developers@python.org/msg00038.html http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2003-July/030023.html The 2nd one seemed promising, so I tried to subscribe a person to a test list of mine. Mailman kicked out an email to the admin addr, and I was able to construct the group-add URL and thus "remotely" subscribe the requesting member.. http://mail.xyz.org/mailman/admin/test_xyz.org/members?subscribees=me@home.com&&send_welcome_msg_to_this_batch=0&adminpw=pwd BUT there is (at least) one major problem with this method... it does not seem to clear out the "pending" queue... so I'm getting reminder emails to the web interface and approve this poor chap ;-) Also doesn't really cover the situation of wanting to "deny" someone's request. If it matters, my concerns about security are much less than my concerns about functionality. Also, in this case, mailman is supplied by my host and I do not have access to modify the code (no root access). (at best could set up a forwarder to procmail to something, but that starts to seem ugly). Nor are the files of subscribers stored anywhere within my space to edit them directly (at least not that I can find). Thanks, Mike -- "The difference between perseverance and obstinacy is that one comes from a strong will, and the other comes from a strong won't" - Henry Ward Beecher zimmy@nc.rr.com From barry at python.org Sun Feb 8 13:59:06 2004 From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw) Date: Sun Feb 8 13:59:12 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Is the config.pck.last logic correct? In-Reply-To: <200402041909.i14J9d7e056305@grumman.kjsl.com> References: <200402041909.i14J9d7e056305@grumman.kjsl.com> Message-ID: <1076266746.3181.24.camel@anthem> On Wed, 2004-02-04 at 14:09, Les Niles wrote: > Our list server had another crash the other day, this time it > really toasted a couple of lists. :( (No, we hadn't yet done any > of the mitigation steps that we should've, at least none that > worked....) > > What happens is that some of the config.pck files get trashed by > having the last part of the file overwritten with nul bytes. I'm > assuming that it's a filesystem corruption causing this, perhaps > involving disk hardware errors. By the time the problem is > apparent, the config.pck and config.pck.last files are both trashed > -- they're identical, with identical timestamps. I've looked at > the logic for loading and saving config.pck, and don't see how this > can happen. It seems like config.pck.last gets replaced only when > the list data is saved, which should only happen at some point > after the list data is successfully loaded. So there should be > good data to generate the config.pck, otherwise config.pck.last > should be left alone. But there seems to be some flaw in the > logic, that I can't see, because both files are ending up trashed. > Then again, I've clearly demonstrated an overwhelming stupidity by > letting these crashes happen many times until finally something > really nasty occurred, so maybe I'm just too stupid to look at the > code. > > Or maybe something entirely different is happening. If the > pickle-save itself is corrupted in a way that isn't being caught, > then I suppose the bad config.pck will happily by turned into an > equally bad config.pck.last. > > Obviously I don't have a reproducible test case for this, but maybe > someone has some idea of what's going on, and how to improve the > robustness. Have you tried setting SYNC_AFTER_WRITE=Yes in your mm_cfg.py file? -Barry From barry at python.org Sun Feb 8 14:07:48 2004 From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw) Date: Sun Feb 8 14:07:56 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] mailman 2.1.4 problem In-Reply-To: <009501c3ec81$71dc5fb0$72a017ac@asiandevbank.org> References: <009501c3ec81$71dc5fb0$72a017ac@asiandevbank.org> Message-ID: <1076267268.3181.29.camel@anthem> On Fri, 2004-02-06 at 02:18, Ako Ito wrote: > hello gurus, > encountered this problem below in one of my mailing list.. any ideas on how to resolve this? > > thanks > Bug in Mailman version 2.1.4 -------------------------^^^^^ > > We're sorry, we hit a bug! > If you would like to help us identify the problem, please email a copy of this page to the webmaster for this site with a description of what happened. Thanks! > > Traceback: > > Traceback (most recent call last): > File "/adb/data/pkg/mailman/2.1.3/scripts/driver", line 87, in run_main --------------------------------^^^^^ > main() > File "/adb/data/pkg/mailman/2.1.3/Mailman/Cgi/admin.py", line 198, in main > show_results(mlist, doc, category, subcat, cgidata) > File "/adb/data/pkg/mailman/2.1.3/Mailman/Cgi/admin.py", line 498, in show_results > form.AddItem(membership_options(mlist, subcat, cgidata, doc, form)) > File "/adb/data/pkg/mailman/2.1.3/Mailman/Cgi/admin.py", line 870, in membership_options > all = [_m.encode() for _m in mlist.getMembers()] > UnicodeError: ASCII decoding error: ordinal not in range(128) Something is very wrong with your installation. Are you running Mailman 2.1.4 or 2.1.3? -Barry From les at 2pi.org Sun Feb 8 14:10:37 2004 From: les at 2pi.org (Les Niles) Date: Sun Feb 8 14:10:42 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Is the config.pck.last logic correct? In-Reply-To: <1076266746.3181.24.camel@anthem> (message from Barry Warsaw on Sun, 08 Feb 2004 13:59:06 -0500) References: <200402041909.i14J9d7e056305@grumman.kjsl.com> <1076266746.3181.24.camel@anthem> Message-ID: <200402081910.i18JAbKU085272@grumman.kjsl.com> On Sun, 08 Feb 2004 13:59:06 -0500 Barry Warsaw wrote: >On Wed, 2004-02-04 at 14:09, Les Niles wrote: >> Our list server had another crash the other day, this time it >> really toasted a couple of lists. :( (No, we hadn't yet done any >> of the mitigation steps that we should've, at least none that >> worked....) >> ... >> Obviously I don't have a reproducible test case for this, but maybe >> someone has some idea of what's going on, and how to improve the >> robustness. > >Have you tried setting SYNC_AFTER_WRITE=Yes in your mm_cfg.py file? > >-Barry No, not yet. That's one of the mitigation steps the lack of which demonstrates why I should be kept away from computers. But whether the writes succeed or fail or trash the file, I couldn't see how both config.pck and config.pck.last got corrupted. If it's some subtle bug in the program's logic, that might be worth fixing, but if it's just some serious nastiness on the part of the filesystem then nevermind. BTW, I don't think I mentioned before, this is mailman 2.1.3 on FreeBSD 4.9-stable with a UFS filesystem. -les From rmg at terc.edu Sun Feb 8 16:33:02 2004 From: rmg at terc.edu (Robby Griffin) Date: Sun Feb 8 16:33:05 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Tracking down a permissions bug in attachments In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5FE6B9FA-5A7E-11D8-920D-000A95A0C58E@terc.edu> On Friday, Jan 23, 2004, at 12:27 US/Eastern, Andrew Mellinger wrote: > Now, it looks to me like Mailman is trying to set permissions on the > newly > created directory to 02775. I'm running on NetBSD which doesn't let > anyone > but the superuser set the 2000 (setuid) bit. I imagine this setting > (02775) > was done for linux which overloads the setuid bit for as 'set group' > on new > files. man 2 chmod. 02000 is the setgid bit, where 04000 would be setuid. I can confirm that NetBSD does let non-superusers set it on files that they own (works with /bin/chmod and simple C test programs): [EPERM] The effective user ID does not match the owner of the file and the effective user ID is not the super-user. As you have probably observed, it's not needed for Mailman to operate correctly because new files in BSD tend to inherit group ownership from the parent directory anyway. > Does this sound like a good assessment? If so, is there a generic > way to > turn this sort of thing off in a config? (I searched by couldn't find > anything.) Isn't this something that should be handled at build time? Something like that. This is bug #688751, and again I can confirm that it occurs on NetBSD, so with every new release I've just commented out three lines in Scrubber.py to avoid shunting messages with attachments. I otherwise have no idea where to go with this. The function in question works when run in a small test program as a non-superuser... --Robby From barry at python.org Mon Feb 9 11:30:41 2004 From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw) Date: Mon Feb 9 11:30:50 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Several big changes slated for 2.1.5 (long) Message-ID: <1076344240.27044.59.camel@anthem> I have some rather big changes ready for MM2.1.5 that I wanted to describe and get feedback from you. While I have this stuff working and ready to be checked in, we will definitely need some beta testing before unleashing on the world. I hope you'll be able to help with that. I think these changes are important enough to put into 2.1 rather than waiting for any future major release. The first big change is the most externally visible one. I believe the current scheme for bounce processing is unusable in today's world of MyDoom sender forgeries, anti-virus front-ends on remote SMTPs and the like. On python.org we've seen many cases where people are getting unexpectedly bounce disabled, even though they receive all legitimate traffic to a mailing list. What's happening? It's simply that, while we have spam and virus defenses in place on python.org, some crap still gets through. Imagine I'm on a busy list and I forward barry@python.org through my home ISP, which has a virus and spam detector on that address. Now say that list gets 100 msgs/day and 1% of those messages are false negative spams. The message gets onto the list, but my ISP catches them and rejects them, which triggers a bounce and thus my score's just been increased by 1. I only need one sneaky spam per day to get me bounce disabled, even though most of the mail is legit and gets through. So I've implemented a revised scheme that we've talked about before, based on what I believe ezmlm does. All the bounce parameters are still in effect, however when a member's bounce score reaches the threshold, we now send a specially prepared probe message containing a VERP'd sender with an unguessable token. When we send the probe, the member's bounce score is reset. If the probe bounces, then we disable the member and do the normal reminders. If the probe doesn't bounce the member would stay enabled and their score starts accumulating from zero again. A benefit of this rewrite is that we can include in the probe, the last bouncing message as a sample to the user so they can start to get a clue as to why they're getting bounce scored. This change has prompted an internal rewrite of the pending database. Previously the entire site had a single pending.pck file for all actions requiring confirmation by the user -- held subscription cancellation, subscription, unsub, and change of address confirmations, and bounce re-enable confirmations. This was a problem for several reasons, including that every list had to block on acquiring the lock for this file. Now, each list has its own pending.pck file and while the list lock must be acquired to update this database, at least this doesn't block other lists from doing things. The upgrade script attempts to migrate the single shared pending.pck file to the individual list files, but the conversion is difficult because the associated list is not stored with most of the records in that file. I do my best, but it's possible that some pending actions may get lost. The other big change is a purely internal one, but it may affect the work flow for some admins. I've changed the qfiles file format so that only one file is used per message. Previously we had one file for the message and one file for the metadata. Now, a single pickle file is used with the first object in the pickle being the message object and the second being the metadata dictionary. This approach has several advantages. The code is simpler, there are no race conditions opportunities, we can't possibly have orphaned data files, and probably most importantly we now only need half the inodes we did before. In addition, I've decided to turn on fsync'ing for this new qfile all the time, so storage should be more reliable too. The downside is that I've removed the ability to set a METADATA_FORMAT. We use Python pickles and that's it. I doubt many people have been using (or were even aware of) the alternatives, although I've had the occasional bug report on them so I know that number is non-zero. The other downside for some people is that the behavior of SAVE_MSGS_AS_PICKLES=False will change. When that non-standard setting is used, we'll still write everything to a pickle file, but we'll use text pickles instead of the more efficient (but not human readable) binary pickles. Also, we'll write the message object as a pickled string instead of a pickled object. Again, this will be less efficient because we'll have to parse the message every time it's dequeued, but this option will still allow people to edit queued messages with a normal text editor, albeit less conveniently. I think this trade-off is worth it. The upgrade script will combine any existing qfiles so you won't have to clear your queue when upgrading. To be safe, you /will/ have to stop Mailman, your MTA, and your web server before upgrading (but this was always recommended practice). I intend to commit these changes to CVS within a week and will probably release a 2.1.5 alpha. This will touch a lot of files, but it will hopefully make the system more efficient and usable. Once this is done I hope to have more time to start addressing other bugs and issues in the 2.1 branch. Again, when everything's checked it, please test things out as much as possible, especially if you are using older Python versions. I've tested primarily with Python 2.3.3 but I was careful not to use any feature that isn't supported in Python 2.1.3. I might have missed something though. -Barry From rmg at terc.edu Mon Feb 9 11:59:48 2004 From: rmg at terc.edu (Robby Griffin) Date: Mon Feb 9 11:59:58 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Tracking down a permissions bug in attachments In-Reply-To: <5FE6B9FA-5A7E-11D8-920D-000A95A0C58E@terc.edu> Message-ID: <5E4F09EC-5B21-11D8-920D-000A95A0C58E@terc.edu> On Sunday, Feb 8, 2004, at 16:33 US/Eastern, Robby Griffin wrote: > On Friday, Jan 23, 2004, at 12:27 US/Eastern, Andrew Mellinger wrote: > >> Now, it looks to me like Mailman is trying to set permissions on >> the newly >> created directory to 02775. I'm running on NetBSD which doesn't let >> anyone >> but the superuser set the 2000 (setuid) bit. I imagine this setting >> (02775) >> was done for linux which overloads the setuid bit for as 'set group' >> on new >> files. > > Something like that. This is bug #688751, and again I can confirm that > it occurs on NetBSD, so with every new release I've just commented out > three lines in Scrubber.py to avoid shunting messages with > attachments. I otherwise have no idea where to go with this. The > function in question works when run in a small test program as a > non-superuser... Hmm. As best I can tell, this bug was fixed in 2.1.4 by the fix for bug #777444 ("mailmanctl doesn't setgroups when run as root"). With what version of Mailman did you encounter the problem? --Robby From chuqui at plaidworks.com Mon Feb 9 20:59:49 2004 From: chuqui at plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach) Date: Mon Feb 9 21:01:18 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] SQL in MM3 issues In-Reply-To: <200402052104.47600.moron@industrial.org> References: <40231332.3090300@bellanet.org> <200402052104.47600.moron@industrial.org> Message-ID: On Feb 5, 2004, at 9:04 PM, moron wrote: > > 1. The user should be the core entity, not the list. A list should be > treated as an association with users. not quite how I've implemented it. I prefer that the list and the user be peer objects. A user has an existance in the system, and there are a series of lists also on the system, and you connect them via relations. In SQL-ese: user table user_ID (primary key) [suite of user data] lists table list_ID (primary key)) [suite of list data] subscriptions user_id, list_id in a many-many relationship, no primary key. Neither side of that is subservient to the other, nor does it need to be. the relation is a two item table, both indexed. by creating the primary key to be those two fields combined and set as UNIQUE, you avoid duplicates. Now, it's usually convenient to add more data to that table than just that relation; I normally also store a subscribed flag (ENUM Y|N), and a created/modified timestamp. why not use DELETE to remove a subscription? you can, but by doing an UPDATE (subscription = "N", modified = now()), you have data left around for reporting and statistics, and then you can delete them in one operation later when you want to optimize tables. If you want to add aliases to a user record, this mode makes that easy, since you simply add which alias in the user record to mail to to the subscriptions table, and post to it; then accept from any email in the user's record for posting. > 2. Bounce handling should no longer have anything to do with a > specific list. > All bounces should be for the entire installation. You should have one > password per installation, one log in per installation, etc. agreed. a bounce on one system should affect all. undels flag the email in the user record, not the subscription. whether you fallback to a secondary alias (if we support those) or probe or something, it affects the user, not the subscription. > 3. Messages can be to more than one list since "lists" can be unions. > This > solves the "how do I notify everyone?" problem. be careful here, down this road lies madness. trust me, umbrella lists and unions aren't as simple as this. And in reality, umbrella lists are a lot less needed than people think. From bl at nk-robert.de Tue Feb 10 15:25:31 2004 From: bl at nk-robert.de (bl@nk-robert.de) Date: Tue Feb 10 15:25:36 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] bin/newlist -o option Message-ID: <40293E3B.9070809@nk-robert.de> Hello, I am setting up Mailman 2.1.4-1 on Debian/GNU with postfix-mysql 2.0.16-4. I was googling around and I noticed that I need the newlist -o option to synchronize mailman and /etc/postfix/aliases. but my version of bin/newlist does not support this option. ------------- $/usr/sbin/newlist -h Create a new, unpopulated mailing list. Usage: /usr/sbin/newlist [options] [listname [listadmin-addr [admin-password]]] Options: -l language --language language Make the list's preferred language `language', which must be a two letter language code. -q/--quiet Normally the administrator is notified by email (after a prompt) that their list has been created. This option suppresses the prompt and notification. -h/--help Print this help text and exit. ------------- Well I think you know the out put ;-) For a former version I was hacking /usr/sbin/newlist, but this should not be the way Any ideas? robert From jamie at silverdream.org Tue Feb 10 15:51:12 2004 From: jamie at silverdream.org (Jamie Penman-Smithson) Date: Tue Feb 10 15:51:31 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Virtual domain support Message-ID: <1076446272.1158.83.camel@localhost> I'm currently using Mailman 2.1.4, and currently, there are several problems with Mailman's implementation of virtual hosting: (a) List names aren't unique across virtual domains, domain1.com cannot have a list called 'test' if domain2.com has a list called 'test' On a large installation this is a real problem, and the only real way around it is to run multiple installations of Mailman - one for each site. This is pretty impractical if there are many, many virtual domains. (b) Linked to the above, the problem I've been having is that Mailman has one site password and one list administrators password for *all* virtual domains, (there are no 'domain administrators' who have add/delete privileges for lists *only* for their own domain). If someone knows the list admin password, they can create and delete lists not only for their own site, but on all the other virtual domains as well. Currently, I'm having to hack Mailman in order to have a separate password for each virtual domain, which still doesn't solve the problem of unique list names. I love Mailman a whole lot, but I'm having to look at other solutions, mainly because I'm heavily limited on time right now. Are there any plans to improve on the current support for virtual domains anytime soon? Thanks in advance, -j -- -jamie w: http://silverdream.org | p: sms@silverdream.org pgp key @ http://silverdream.org/~jps/pub.key 20:30:01 up 23:57, 5 users, load average: 0.44, 0.21, 0.12 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-developers/attachments/20040210/84a3a499/attachment.bin From barry at python.org Tue Feb 10 16:04:14 2004 From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw) Date: Tue Feb 10 16:04:22 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Virtual domain support In-Reply-To: <1076446272.1158.83.camel@localhost> References: <1076446272.1158.83.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <1076447053.8074.36.camel@anthem> On Tue, 2004-02-10 at 15:51, Jamie Penman-Smithson wrote: > (a) List names aren't unique across virtual domains, domain1.com cannot > have a list called 'test' if domain2.com has a list called 'test' This is true. > (b) Linked to the above, the problem I've been having is that Mailman > has one site password and one list administrators password for *all* > virtual domains, (there are no 'domain administrators' who have > add/delete privileges for lists *only* for their own domain). If someone > knows the list admin password, they can create and delete lists not only > for their own site, but on all the other virtual domains as well. You can't create lists with just a list password, but you can with the creator password. The first one has /some/ support in Mailman but it's very hacky. There's a module called Site.py and an extend.py module per list that provides some hooks for better virtualization. You'll have to hack Python here and unfortunately there aren't any examples. One approach might be to map listnames to directories that are prefixed with the domain's name. The second is more difficult because the concept of a domain has mostly been wedged into MM2.1 so there's no notion of a separate authentication layer at the domain level. Yes, this will be fixed in future versions, but not in Mailman 2.1. -Barry From rmg at terc.edu Tue Feb 10 16:01:28 2004 From: rmg at terc.edu (Robby Griffin) Date: Tue Feb 10 16:06:18 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] bin/newlist -o option In-Reply-To: <40293E3B.9070809@nk-robert.de> Message-ID: <4B854E91-5C0C-11D8-84CF-00039383CAAE@terc.edu> On Tuesday, Feb 10, 2004, at 15:25 US/Eastern, bl@nk-robert.de wrote: > I am setting up Mailman 2.1.4-1 on Debian/GNU with postfix-mysql > 2.0.16-4. > I was googling around and I noticed that I need the newlist -o option > to synchronize mailman and /etc/postfix/aliases. > but my version of bin/newlist does not support this option. It was removed in favor of modular MTA-specific methods, keeping in mind that 2.1.4 has to be able to support creation and deletion thru the web interface. I'm not familiar with the Debian package arrangements, but as described in README.POSTFIX, you probably want to set MTA = 'Postfix'. This will cause Mailman to maintain its own separate aliases file, so then you'd want to tell postfix to read both. See also the "genaliases" script if you get this set up and are missing aliases for previously created lists. --Robby From brad.knowles at skynet.be Tue Feb 10 17:11:18 2004 From: brad.knowles at skynet.be (Brad Knowles) Date: Tue Feb 10 17:11:28 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Virtual domain support In-Reply-To: <1076447053.8074.36.camel@anthem> References: <1076446272.1158.83.camel@localhost> <1076447053.8074.36.camel@anthem> Message-ID: At 4:04 PM -0500 2004/02/10, Barry Warsaw wrote: > Yes, this will be fixed in future versions, but not in Mailman 2.1. Mailman 3, or 2.2? -- Brad Knowles, "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania. GCS/IT d+(-) s:+(++)>: a C++(+++)$ UMBSHI++++$ P+>++ L+ !E-(---) W+++(--) N+ !w--- O- M++ V PS++(+++) PE- Y+(++) PGP>+++ t+(+++) 5++(+++) X++(+++) R+(+++) tv+(+++) b+(++++) DI+(++++) D+(++) G+(++++) e++>++++ h--- r---(+++)* z(+++) From barry at python.org Tue Feb 10 17:13:51 2004 From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw) Date: Tue Feb 10 17:14:01 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Virtual domain support In-Reply-To: References: <1076446272.1158.83.camel@localhost> <1076447053.8074.36.camel@anthem> Message-ID: <1076451230.922.9.camel@anthem> On Tue, 2004-02-10 at 17:11, Brad Knowles wrote: > At 4:04 PM -0500 2004/02/10, Barry Warsaw wrote: > > > Yes, this will be fixed in future versions, but not in Mailman 2.1. > > Mailman 3, or 2.2? Yes. :) -Barry From fil at rezo.net Tue Feb 10 19:14:48 2004 From: fil at rezo.net (Fil) Date: Tue Feb 10 19:16:24 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Re: [Mailman-checkins] mailman/templates/en probe.txt, NONE, 1.1.2.1 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040211001448.GA30443@rezo.net> This change was very much needed. I lost quite a few administrators like this recently :) > --- NEW FILE: probe.txt --- > This is a probe message. You can ignore this message. I have the feeling that these messages are always too long. Most people don't feel easy reading long "automatic" texts, especially if it arrives in a language they don't perfectly master. In this precise case, the message is long, and talks about things most people have never heard of (probes, bounces, disable/re-enable subscription). What I've done on listes.rezo.net is the following (for example, concerning subscription ack): >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> start file ---------------------------------------------------------- %(welcome)s Your address has been added to the list %(real_name)s@%(host_name)s Thank you. ---------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, you can write to the following address: <%(real_name)s-off@%(host_name)s> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> end file What I mean is that the documentation should not be inside the message (well, that's my view of this user interaction problem). If other people feel the same, we could redesign a set of shorter templates for non-geeks. The probe.txt message is of course very difficult to write, especially if it contains a virus attached as a copy... :) From jbebel at ncsu.edu Wed Feb 11 14:19:48 2004 From: jbebel at ncsu.edu (Joel Ebel) Date: Wed Feb 11 14:19:52 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] 3.1.4 upgrade problem Message-ID: <402A8054.9050202@ncsu.edu> After upgrading to 3.1.4 from 3.1.3 I now have a problem when any post is attempted. Perhaps someone can help me with this. Traceback (most recent call last): File "/usr/local/mailman/scripts/post", line 69, in ? main() File "/usr/local/mailman/scripts/post", line 64, in main tolist=1, _plaintext=1) File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Switchboard.py", line 133, in enqueue os.fsync(msgfp.fileno()) AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'fsync' 554 5.3.0 unknown mailer error 1 Thanks, Joel From barry at python.org Wed Feb 11 17:59:40 2004 From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw) Date: Wed Feb 11 22:06:10 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] 3.1.4 upgrade problem In-Reply-To: <402A8054.9050202@ncsu.edu> References: <402A8054.9050202@ncsu.edu> Message-ID: <1076531331.19634.28.camel@geddy> On Wed, 2004-02-11 at 14:19, Joel Ebel wrote: > After upgrading to 3.1.4 from 3.1.3 I now have a problem when any post > is attempted. Perhaps someone can help me with this. Unless I've been sleep-hacking through the last couple of years, I think you mean 2.1.3 and 2.1.4 :) > Traceback (most recent call last): > File "/usr/local/mailman/scripts/post", line 69, in ? > main() > File "/usr/local/mailman/scripts/post", line 64, in main > tolist=1, _plaintext=1) > File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Switchboard.py", line 133, in > enqueue > os.fsync(msgfp.fileno()) > AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'fsync' > 554 5.3.0 unknown mailer error 1 What version of Python are you using? What platform? Certainly Python 2.1 and beyond on my various RH versions has os.fsync(). Try this: % python Python 2.1.3 (#1, Sep 25 2002, 16:55:12) [GCC 2.96 20000731 (Red Hat Linux 7.3 2.96-112)] on linux2 Type "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information. >>> import os >>> os.fsync What do you get? -Barry From leadershipopensource at katamail.com Thu Feb 12 04:21:57 2004 From: leadershipopensource at katamail.com (Gianluca Bosco) Date: Thu Feb 12 04:22:04 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] [leadership/opensource] invitation to online survey Message-ID: <130.226.213.116+XL5N8JGBKYbbjp3Q@all-1.inet.it> Dear all, I have just put online a survey addressing the topic of "leadership in the open-source environment". Basically, my objective is to identify the personal conceptions of good leadership that reside in the minds of the contributors, in terms of leaders' _behaviors_ and _characteristics_. What is a good open-source project leader, from the contributor's point of view? To what extent, those personal believes are shared among developers? Can the contributor's national cultural belonging and level of experience in contributing to open-source projects explain such differences in their idea of what a good leader is? I would really appreciate your participation to the survey! Contribution (*completely* anonymous) consists in rating a list of statements that may be used to describe the behaviors of an open-source leader. It will take around ten minutes - there aren't any "time-consuming" open ended questions;) Following, the link to the survey: http://freeonlinesurveys.com/rendersurvey.asp?id=52191 If you are interested, I will not miss to email you a link to the final report, when ready ;) (approx, a couple of months from now) Thank you in advance, and don't hesitate to contact me if you have any questions or comments :) Gianluca Bosco g.bosco@GETRIDOFTHISinwind.it Denmark Technical University Department of manufacturing engineering and management From fil at rezo.net Thu Feb 12 07:06:28 2004 From: fil at rezo.net (Fil) Date: Thu Feb 12 07:08:04 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] archiving problem Message-ID: <20040212120628.GY23851@rezo.net> Hi, I've upgraded to CVS to get the new bounce management, but now it seems that I have a problem : ==> logs/error <== Feb 12 13:03:10 2004 (9879) Uncaught runner exception: [Errno 32] Broken pipe Feb 12 13:03:10 2004 (9879) Traceback (most recent call last): File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 110, in _oneloop self._onefile(msg, msgdata) File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 160, in _onefile keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata) File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/ArchRunner.py", line 73, in _dispose mlist.ArchiveMail(msg) File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/Archiver.py", line 200, in ArchiveMail self.ExternalArchive(mm_cfg.PUBLIC_EXTERNAL_ARCHIVER, txt) File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/Archiver.py", line 175, in ExternalArchive status = extarch.close() IOError: [Errno 32] Broken pipe Feb 12 13:03:10 2004 (9879) SHUNTING: 1076587387.1300571+a3796c3908cc5f9d5f668ff6933510045be10e06 What should I do? -- Fil From fil at rezo.net Thu Feb 12 07:26:12 2004 From: fil at rezo.net (Fil) Date: Thu Feb 12 07:27:48 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] archiving problem In-Reply-To: <20040212120628.GY23851@rezo.net> References: <20040212120628.GY23851@rezo.net> Message-ID: <20040212122612.GB7220@rezo.net> > File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/Archiver.py", line 175, in ExternalArchive > status = extarch.close() > IOError: [Errno 32] Broken pipe > > Feb 12 13:03:10 2004 (9879) SHUNTING: > 1076587387.1300571+a3796c3908cc5f9d5f668ff6933510045be10e06 You can download one test incoming and three shunt files at http://rezo.net/ ~fil/ external.tgz I have no clue. The external archiver is MHonArc, and some mails are properly archived ; other not. -- Fil From fil at rezo.net Thu Feb 12 07:32:42 2004 From: fil at rezo.net (Fil) Date: Thu Feb 12 07:34:21 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] archiving problem In-Reply-To: <20040212122612.GB7220@rezo.net> References: <20040212120628.GY23851@rezo.net> <20040212122612.GB7220@rezo.net> Message-ID: <20040212123242.GA12409@rezo.net> > I have no clue. The external archiver is MHonArc, and some mails are > properly archived ; other not. I just took an "offensive" email and pushed it manually through the archiver script, and it goes perfectly well: cat ~fil/bug_m | (/var/local/mailman/mhonarc/mlist2html.pl /var/local/mailman/archives/private test -add ) This is MHonArc v2.6.3, Perl 5.006001 linux Reading database ... Reading resource file: /var/local/mailman/mhonarc//common.rc ... Adding messages to /var/local/mailman/archives/private/test/2004-02 Reading /tmp/mlist2html-2004-02.10942 . Writing mail .. Writing /var/local/mailman/archives/private/test/2004-02/maillist.html ... Writing /var/local/mailman/archives/private/test/2004-02/threads.html ... Writing database ... 1 new messages 2 total messages -- Fil From jbebel at ncsu.edu Thu Feb 12 09:55:45 2004 From: jbebel at ncsu.edu (Joel Ebel) Date: Thu Feb 12 09:55:51 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] 2.1.4 upgrade problem In-Reply-To: <1076531331.19634.28.camel@geddy> References: <402A8054.9050202@ncsu.edu> <1076531331.19634.28.camel@geddy> Message-ID: <402B93F1.5030007@ncsu.edu> Barry Warsaw wrote: > On Wed, 2004-02-11 at 14:19, Joel Ebel wrote: > >>After upgrading to 3.1.4 from 3.1.3 I now have a problem when any post >>is attempted. Perhaps someone can help me with this. > > > Unless I've been sleep-hacking through the last couple of years, I think > you mean 2.1.3 and 2.1.4 :) My apologies. I deal with so many version numbers its hard to keep them all straight. I have changed the subject line thusly. > > >>Traceback (most recent call last): >> File "/usr/local/mailman/scripts/post", line 69, in ? >> main() >> File "/usr/local/mailman/scripts/post", line 64, in main >> tolist=1, _plaintext=1) >> File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Switchboard.py", line 133, in >>enqueue >> os.fsync(msgfp.fileno()) >>AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'fsync' >>554 5.3.0 unknown mailer error 1 > > > What version of Python are you using? What platform? Certainly Python > 2.1 and beyond on my various RH versions has os.fsync(). Try this: > > % python > Python 2.1.3 (#1, Sep 25 2002, 16:55:12) > [GCC 2.96 20000731 (Red Hat Linux 7.3 2.96-112)] on linux2 > Type "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information. > This is slackware 9.1 with python 2.3.1. >>>>import os >>>>os.fsync > > > > What do you get? >>> import os >>> os.fsync Traceback (most recent call last): File "", line 1, in ? AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'fsync' Do I need to get a newer python? I've just been using the version that came with slackware 9.1. Thanks, Joel From jason at mastaler.com Thu Feb 12 16:08:43 2004 From: jason at mastaler.com (Jason R. Mastaler) Date: Thu Feb 12 16:12:38 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Re: 2.1.4 upgrade problem References: <402A8054.9050202@ncsu.edu> <1076531331.19634.28.camel@geddy> <402B93F1.5030007@ncsu.edu> Message-ID: Joel Ebel writes: > This is slackware 9.1 with python 2.3.1. [...] > >>> import os > >>> os.fsync > Traceback (most recent call last): > File "", line 1, in ? > AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'fsync' There was a bug in Python 2.3.1 that caused os.fsync() to go missing. You should upgrade Python to 2.3.2 or 2.3.3, and also report to Slackware that they are distributing a buggy version of Python. From graham_guttocks at yahoo.co.nz Thu Feb 12 16:18:10 2004 From: graham_guttocks at yahoo.co.nz (=?iso-8859-1?q?Graham=20Guttocks?=) Date: Thu Feb 12 16:20:32 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Fwd: supporting all ``available_languages''? Message-ID: <20040212211810.3822.qmail@web10302.mail.yahoo.com> After no response in the users list, I assume this is not possible. Can I upgrade it to a feature request? -------------------- Start of forwarded message -------------------- From: Graham Guttocks Subject: supporting all ``available_languages''? Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 09:37:55 +1300 (NZDT) To: mailman-users@python.org Greetings, I'm running MM 2.1.x. Every time a new point release is made, it seems a few more languages are added. I then have to go into the web interface for each list, and click those new checkboxes under the ``available_languages'' section. Is there some mm_cfg.py variable I've missed which says essentially ``support all available languages'' so that when new languages are added, they just automatically are picked up? Regards, Graham ===== Regards, Graham http://greetings.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Greetings Send your love online with Yahoo! Greetings - FREE! From jbebel at ncsu.edu Thu Feb 12 16:23:50 2004 From: jbebel at ncsu.edu (Joel Ebel) Date: Thu Feb 12 16:25:55 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Re: 2.1.4 upgrade problem In-Reply-To: References: <402A8054.9050202@ncsu.edu> <1076531331.19634.28.camel@geddy> <402B93F1.5030007@ncsu.edu> Message-ID: <402BEEE6.6020903@ncsu.edu> Why is this suddenly a problem with mailman 2.1.4 though? It was working fine with 2.1.3 until I upgraded. Does 2.1.3 just not use that function? Joel Jason R. Mastaler wrote: > Joel Ebel writes: > > >>This is slackware 9.1 with python 2.3.1. > > > [...] > > >> >>> import os >> >>> os.fsync >>Traceback (most recent call last): >> File "", line 1, in ? >>AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'fsync' > > > There was a bug in Python 2.3.1 that caused os.fsync() to go missing. > You should upgrade Python to 2.3.2 or 2.3.3, and also report to > Slackware that they are distributing a buggy version of Python. > > > _______________________________________________ > Mailman-Developers mailing list > Mailman-Developers@python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers > Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-developers/jbebel%40ncsu.edu From jarrell at vt.edu Thu Feb 12 16:42:34 2004 From: jarrell at vt.edu (Ron Jarrell) Date: Thu Feb 12 16:50:33 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] list bug Message-ID: <6.0.1.1.2.20040212163953.02e5d5c0@lennier.cc.vt.edu> I just hit this on one of my lists, when someone tried to subscribe: Bug in Mailman version 2.1.5a3 We're sorry, we hit a bug! If you would like to help us identify the problem, please email a copy of this page to the webmaster for this site with a description of what happened. Thanks! Traceback: Traceback (most recent call last): File "/home/mailman/scripts/driver", line 87, in run_main main() File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/subscribe.py", line 96, in main process_form(mlist, doc, cgidata, language) File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/subscribe.py", line 176, in process_form mlist.AddMember(userdesc, remote) File "/home/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 856, in AddMember self.HoldSubscription(email, name, password, digest, lang) File "/home/mailman/Mailman/ListAdmin.py", line 391, in HoldSubscription assert not self.__db.has_key(id) AssertionError I updated to the latest cvs code, making sure this time to specify the maint tag I'd been forgetting, and installed, but make update tells me I'm trying to downgrade from 2.2 to 2.1.5a3, and that's probbaly not safe.. Did I end up hosing my listdb in my earlier upgrades? From jason at mastaler.com Thu Feb 12 16:35:56 2004 From: jason at mastaler.com (Jason R. Mastaler) Date: Thu Feb 12 17:00:19 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Re: 2.1.4 upgrade problem References: <402A8054.9050202@ncsu.edu> <1076531331.19634.28.camel@geddy> <402B93F1.5030007@ncsu.edu> <402BEEE6.6020903@ncsu.edu> Message-ID: Joel Ebel writes: > Does 2.1.3 just not use that function? I believe so, yes. From the 2.1.4 release notes: - Promoted SYNC_AFTER_WRITE to a Default.py/mm_cfg.py variable and make it control syncing on the config.pck file. Also, we always flush and sync message files. See http://sourceforge.net/project/shownotes.php?release_id=206877 From webmasterone at newtechnologies2000.com Thu Feb 12 20:39:44 2004 From: webmasterone at newtechnologies2000.com (Richard D. Dover) Date: Thu Feb 12 20:39:50 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] searchable archives Message-ID: <02d201c3f1d2$4283dcb0$0e00a8c0@newtech> How do I set up searchable archives on my list like you have on your list? From webmasterone at newtechnologies2000.com Thu Feb 12 21:39:53 2004 From: webmasterone at newtechnologies2000.com (Richard D. Dover) Date: Thu Feb 12 21:40:00 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] scrubbed html messages Message-ID: <030801c3f1da$a9f38820$0e00a8c0@newtech> I want html messages to appear in the public archive. In other words I want a person to click on the link for a message (that is listed in the public archive) and when it opens up it is in the original html format it was sent. What do I need to do so that it is not 'scrubbed'? From webmasterone at newtechnologies2000.com Thu Feb 12 21:41:53 2004 From: webmasterone at newtechnologies2000.com (Richard D. Dover) Date: Thu Feb 12 21:42:00 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] edit design of archive page Message-ID: <031401c3f1da$f113ff50$0e00a8c0@newtech> What path/file do I go to edit the design of the archive page? From webmasterone at newtechnologies2000.com Fri Feb 13 13:38:42 2004 From: webmasterone at newtechnologies2000.com (Richard D. Dover) Date: Fri Feb 13 13:38:54 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] edited archive folder-edits lost when message posts Message-ID: <060001c3f260$9d406090$0e00a8c0@newtech> I edited the archive index.html folder for my mailing list. I also edited the date.html and subject.html to have the appearance I wanted. Everything looked good until there was a post. When a post is made to the list all my data is erased and the archive index.html, date.html, and subject.html went back to default. Why is this? How can I change the archive files to look the way I want? From gordonr at gormand.com.au Fri Feb 13 23:29:07 2004 From: gordonr at gormand.com.au (Gordon Rowell) Date: Fri Feb 13 23:29:27 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] VERP subscription confirmations In-Reply-To: <20040205214405.V17978@gormand.com.au>; from gordonr@gormand.com.au on Thu, Feb 05, 2004 at 09:44:05PM -0500 References: <20040205214405.V17978@gormand.com.au> Message-ID: <20040213232906.J16228@gormand.com.au> On Thu, Feb 05, 2004 at 09:44:05PM -0500, Gordon Rowell wrote: > If I enable VERP_CONFIRMATIONS and "Invite" someone from the > admin page, I get a VERP invite and a "nice" Subject line: > [...] > It appears that the VERP confirmations are only partially implemented, > but maybe I've missed something. > > I was thinking of doing something like this in MailList.py > (be gentle - Python newbie): > [...] The patch below seems to do the right thing for me. Anyone feel game to test/comment? Thanks, Gordon --- MailList.py-2.1.4 Sun Nov 30 19:54:16 2003 +++ MailList.py Fri Feb 13 23:25:44 2004 @@ -194,8 +194,11 @@ def GetOwnerEmail(self): return self.getListAddress('owner') - def GetRequestEmail(self): - return self.getListAddress('request') + def GetRequestEmail(self, cookie=''): + if mm_cfg.VERP_CONFIRMATIONS and cookie: + return self.GetConfirmEmail(cookie) + else: + return self.getListAddress('request') def GetConfirmEmail(self, cookie): return mm_cfg.VERP_CONFIRM_FORMAT % { @@ -203,6 +206,13 @@ 'cookie': cookie, } + '@' + self.host_name + + def GetConfirmSubject(self, listname, cookie, verb): + if mm_cfg.VERP_CONFIRMATIONS and cookie: + return _( 'You have been invited to %(verb)s the %(listname)s mailing list' ) + else: + return 'confirm ' + cookie + def GetListEmail(self): return self.getListAddress() @@ -695,7 +705,7 @@ """ invitee = userdesc.address Utils.ValidateEmail(invitee) - requestaddr = self.GetRequestEmail() +# requestaddr = self.GetRequestEmail() # Hack alert! Squirrel away a flag that only invitations have, so # that we can do something slightly different when an invitation # subscription is confirmed. In those cases, we don't need further @@ -703,6 +713,7 @@ # list name to prevent invitees from cross-subscribing. userdesc.invitation = self.internal_name() cookie = Pending.new(Pending.SUBSCRIPTION, userdesc) + requestaddr = self.GetRequestEmail(cookie) confirmurl = '%s/%s' % (self.GetScriptURL('confirm', absolute=1), cookie) listname = self.real_name @@ -716,14 +727,8 @@ 'cookie' : cookie, 'listowner' : self.GetOwnerEmail(), }, mlist=self) - if mm_cfg.VERP_CONFIRMATIONS: - subj = _( - 'You have been invited to join the %(listname)s mailing list') - sender = self.GetConfirmEmail(cookie) - else: - # Do it the old fashioned way - subj = 'confirm ' + cookie - sender = requestaddr + subj = self.GetConfirmSubject(listname, cookie, 'join') + sender = self.GetRequestEmail(cookie) msg = Message.UserNotification( invitee, sender, subj, text, lang=self.preferred_language) @@ -833,18 +838,18 @@ 'listaddr' : self.GetListEmail(), 'listname' : realname, 'cookie' : cookie, - 'requestaddr' : self.GetRequestEmail(), + 'requestaddr' : self.GetRequestEmail(cookie), 'remote' : remote, 'listadmin' : self.GetOwnerEmail(), 'confirmurl' : confirmurl, }, lang=lang, mlist=self) msg = Message.UserNotification( - recipient, self.GetRequestEmail(), + recipient, self.GetRequestEmail(cookie), text=text, lang=lang) # BAW: See ChangeMemberAddress() for why we do it this way... del msg['subject'] - msg['Subject'] = 'confirm ' + cookie - msg['Reply-To'] = self.GetRequestEmail() + msg['Subject'] = self.GetConfirmSubject(realname, cookie, 'join') + msg['Reply-To'] = self.GetRequestEmail(cookie) msg.send(self) who = formataddr((name, email)) syslog('subscribe', '%s: pending %s %s', @@ -1021,7 +1026,7 @@ 'listaddr' : self.GetListEmail(), 'listname' : realname, 'cookie' : cookie, - 'requestaddr': self.GetRequestEmail(), + 'requestaddr': self.GetRequestEmail(cookie), 'remote' : '', 'listadmin' : self.GetOwnerEmail(), 'confirmurl' : confirmurl, @@ -1034,11 +1039,11 @@ # Subject: in a separate step, although we have to delete the one # UserNotification adds. msg = Message.UserNotification( - newaddr, self.GetRequestEmail(), + newaddr, self.GetRequestEmail(cookie), text=text, lang=lang) del msg['subject'] - msg['Subject'] = 'confirm ' + cookie - msg['Reply-To'] = self.GetRequestEmail() + msg['Subject'] = self.GetConfirmSubject(realname, cookie, 'join') + msg['Reply-To'] = self.GetRequestEmail(cookie) msg.send(self) def ApprovedChangeMemberAddress(self, oldaddr, newaddr, globally): @@ -1220,18 +1225,18 @@ 'listaddr' : self.GetListEmail(), 'listname' : realname, 'cookie' : cookie, - 'requestaddr' : self.GetRequestEmail(), + 'requestaddr' : self.GetRequestEmail(cookie), 'remote' : remote, 'listadmin' : self.GetOwnerEmail(), 'confirmurl' : confirmurl, }, lang=lang, mlist=self) msg = Message.UserNotification( - addr, self.GetRequestEmail(), + addr, self.GetRequestEmail(cookie), text=text, lang=lang) # BAW: See ChangeMemberAddress() for why we do it this way... del msg['subject'] - msg['Subject'] = 'confirm ' + cookie - msg['Reply-To'] = self.GetRequestEmail() + msg['Subject'] = self.GetConfirmSubject(realname, cookie, 'leave') + msg['Reply-To'] = self.GetRequestEmail(cookie) msg.send(self) -- Gordon Rowell Gordon.Rowell@gormand.com.au http://www.gormand.com.au Gormand Pty Ltd PO Box 239 St Pauls NSW 2031 Australia From webmasterone at newtechnologies2000.com Fri Feb 13 23:36:03 2004 From: webmasterone at newtechnologies2000.com (Richard D. Dover) Date: Fri Feb 13 23:36:09 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] remove some messages from archive for several lists Message-ID: <01e801c3f2b4$0eba20a0$0e00a8c0@newtech> I have SSH access to my virtual server that has Mailman on it. I need to remove several messages from archives of several mail lists. Can anyone give me the step by step means of doing this? Or is there somewhere that gives me the step-by-step instructions. I have never used SSH before and I don't want to mess anything up. From jarrell at vt.edu Sun Feb 15 15:53:52 2004 From: jarrell at vt.edu (Ron Jarrell) Date: Sun Feb 15 15:54:38 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] list bug Message-ID: <6.0.1.1.2.20040215155344.025c3590@lennier.cc.vt.edu> At 04:42 PM 2/12/2004, Ron Jarrell wrote: >I just hit this on one of my lists, when someone tried to subscribe: > > >Bug in Mailman version 2.1.5a3 > > > > >We're sorry, we hit a bug! > >If you would like to help us identify the problem, please email a copy >of this page to the webmaster for this site with a description of what >happened. Thanks! > > >Traceback: > > >Traceback (most recent call last): > File "/home/mailman/scripts/driver", line 87, in run_main > main() > File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/subscribe.py", line 96, in main > process_form(mlist, doc, cgidata, language) > File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/subscribe.py", line 176, in > process_form > mlist.AddMember(userdesc, remote) > File "/home/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 856, in AddMember > self.HoldSubscription(email, name, password, digest, lang) > File "/home/mailman/Mailman/ListAdmin.py", line 391, in > HoldSubscription > assert not self.__db.has_key(id) >AssertionError Well, I figured out that it was pissed off at an old pending subscription... The moderator hadn't ever done anything about it.. (which has made me realize that the nightly reminder job is running quite nicely and silently not doing a blessed thing). I discarded the months-old pending subscription, and suddenly that list subscribes just fine. I'm guessing the old pending entry was in an old format? Also, in the current cvs, scripts/driver doesn't import mm_cfg, so doesn't get the definition of True, which it then proceeds to use. From patrick at med.cuhk.edu.hk Mon Feb 16 04:16:27 2004 From: patrick at med.cuhk.edu.hk (Patrick Lam) Date: Mon Feb 16 04:16:39 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Error when processing Chinese emails Message-ID: <200402160916.i1G9GWr10400@ruby.med.cuhk.edu.hk> Dear Experts, When one of my user sent Chinese emails (both contents and subject), my Mailman v2.1.4 give the following errors: Feb 16 09:26:05 2004 (18754) SHUNTING: 1076835446.5623169+add7c7b00843e724cbea05418920ebc84ce5166d Feb 16 16:30:47 2004 (18754) Uncaught runner exception: unknown encoding: big5_tw Feb 16 16:30:47 2004 (18754) Traceback (most recent call last): File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 110, in _oneloop self._onefile(msg, msgdata) File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 160, in _onefile keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata) File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py", line 130, in _dispose more = self._dopipeline(mlist, msg, msgdata, pipeline) File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py", line 153, in _dopipeline sys.modules[modname].process(mlist, msg, msgdata) File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/CookHeaders.py", line 74, in process prefix_subject(mlist, msg, msgdata) File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/CookHeaders.py", line 262, in prefix_subject h.append(s, c) File "/home/mailman/pythonlib/email/Header.py", line 285, in append s = s.encode(outcodec, errors) LookupError: unknown encoding: big5_tw Which file I should modify to fix that problem?? Thank you very much for your kind help and attention! Regards, Patrick ------------------------------------------------------ Patrick Lam Sze Fan Computer Officer II Medical Information Technology, Faculty of Medicine, The Chinese University of Hong Kong Tel:21455213 Fax:26352521 ------------------------------------------------------ From jelly+mailman-dev at mail.iskon.hr Fri Feb 13 11:54:08 2004 From: jelly+mailman-dev at mail.iskon.hr (Zoran Dzelajlija) Date: Mon Feb 16 11:20:38 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Re: Virtual domain support References: <1076446272.1158.83.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <20040213165408.6E4.3.NOFFLE@islands.iskon.hr> Jamie Penman-Smithson wrote: > I'm currently using Mailman 2.1.4, and currently, there are several > problems with Mailman's implementation of virtual hosting: > (a) List names aren't unique across virtual domains, domain1.com cannot > have a list called 'test' if domain2.com has a list called 'test' > On a large installation this is a real problem, and the only real way > around it is to run multiple installations of Mailman - one for each > site. This is pretty impractical if there are many, many virtual > domains. I've made a patch which addresses this one. The new lists have both list name and domain included in the _internal_name attribute, like cPanel (but with less bugs). It's really a hack, I didn't touch newlist nor the web interface for creating lists, the creation of aliases files is currently handled outside Mailman, but it works pretty well for now. Let me know if you're interested. > (b) Linked to the above, the problem I've been having is that Mailman > has one site password and one list administrators password for *all* > virtual domains, (there are no 'domain administrators' who have > add/delete privileges for lists *only* for their own domain). If someone > knows the list admin password, they can create and delete lists not only > for their own site, but on all the other virtual domains as well. FWIW, we have a custom web interface for list creation (which dates back to early MM2.0 releases, when Mailman didn't have a web interface to create lists) which is the only place where our customers can create and delete lists by themselves. This application presents the customer only the lists residing on their own domains, and also updates the aliases file for our MTA. Only the system administrator knows the site password. Regards, Zoran From jason at mastaler.com Mon Feb 16 13:45:26 2004 From: jason at mastaler.com (Jason R. Mastaler) Date: Mon Feb 16 13:45:32 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Re: Error when processing Chinese emails References: <200402160916.i1G9GWr10400@ruby.med.cuhk.edu.hk> Message-ID: "Patrick Lam" writes: > LookupError: unknown encoding: big5_tw Python does not come with Chinese codecs out of the box. Try installing the CJKCodecs package from http://cjkpython.i18n.org/ From barry at python.org Tue Feb 17 18:50:19 2004 From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw) Date: Tue Feb 17 18:50:31 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Is the config.pck.last logic correct? In-Reply-To: <200402081910.i18JAbKU085272@grumman.kjsl.com> References: <200402041909.i14J9d7e056305@grumman.kjsl.com> <1076266746.3181.24.camel@anthem> <200402081910.i18JAbKU085272@grumman.kjsl.com> Message-ID: <1077061818.19244.79.camel@anthem> On Sun, 2004-02-08 at 14:10, Les Niles wrote: > On Sun, 08 Feb 2004 13:59:06 -0500 Barry Warsaw wrote: > > >Have you tried setting SYNC_AFTER_WRITE=Yes in your mm_cfg.py file? > > > >-Barry > > No, not yet. I'd like to get a sense from folks as to whether I should turn on SYNC_AFTER_WRITE for MM 2.1.5. If so, should I keep the configuration variable or just hard-code enable it? Note that with the pending.pck and requests.pck rewrite I recently implemented, I'm always fsync'ing the files. > That's one of the mitigation steps the lack of which > demonstrates why I should be kept away from computers. But whether > the writes succeed or fail or trash the file, I couldn't see how > both config.pck and config.pck.last got corrupted. If it's some > subtle bug in the program's logic, that might be worth fixing, but > if it's just some serious nastiness on the part of the filesystem > then nevermind. The only way I can see this happening is if the system calls succeed, but that the data gets corrupted before its flushed out to disk. So the writes and closes of the tmp files never raise exceptions, the rename dance is done, and then you're left with a corrupt .last file. If for some reason this is happening, turning on fsync should expose the problem because presumably, that call won't succeed unless the data is flushed to disk. Try setting SYNC_AFTER_WRITE to Yes and restarting Mailman. -Barry From patrick at med.cuhk.edu.hk Tue Feb 17 23:35:33 2004 From: patrick at med.cuhk.edu.hk (Patrick Lam) Date: Tue Feb 17 23:35:47 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Another Chinese Problem Message-ID: <200402180435.i1I4Zcr17940@ruby.med.cuhk.edu.hk> Dear All Experts, Thanks to Jason R. Mastaler's kind suggestion and my Mailman can process emails with Chinese subject. However, the Chinese characters in "Today's Topics" in the digests all changed to "????", it seems Mailman processes the characters in ASCII format. The individual emails in MIME format works fine. Any suggestion?? Thanks in advance! Regards, Patrick ------------------------------------------------------ Patrick Lam Sze Fan Computer Officer II Medical Information Technology, Faculty of Medicine, The Chinese University of Hong Kong Tel:21455213 Fax:26352521 ------------------------------------------------------ From mk2s at digitalcommute.com Tue Feb 17 23:56:46 2004 From: mk2s at digitalcommute.com (Michael Kato) Date: Tue Feb 17 23:56:56 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] pycon sprint for MM3 db backend Message-ID: Barry, Kevin, Fred, and others, I'm interested in joining those working on mailman during the PyCon2004 sprint. I too am interested in seeing a db backend on mailman. I'm fairly familiar with mysql, but will be willing to write(in parallel) other backends for postgres, or db2. I can take at least one of Monday or Tuesday off from work to do this, as well as some time on the weekend. So, where can I find Mailman3 code? ....maki.... From wheakory at isu.edu Wed Feb 18 12:42:53 2004 From: wheakory at isu.edu (Kory Wheatley) Date: Wed Feb 18 12:42:58 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Mailman 2.1.4 migration Message-ID: <4033A41D.7060306@isu.edu> We have Mailman 2.1.4 currently running on a Linux Red Hat 8 box called mm.isu.edu, the mta is "postfix", and our mailing list addresses are listname@mm.isu.edu. We would like to move or migrate our current mailman mailing lists over to a existing linux red hat box that is called lx5.isu.edu, but we would like to keep our mailing lists addresses the same, example, listname@mm.isu.edu not as listname@lx5.isu.edu. I know to do this we would need to put a CNAME in DNS pointing lx5.isu.edu to mm.isu.edu, we would also need to created a virtual server to have the web server still be mm.isu.edu . My plan was to install a clean version of mailman 2.1.4 on lx5.isu.edu, then move the mailing lists from mm.isu.edu over to lx5.isu.edu (the directories that I would move over would be /home/mailman/lists and /home/mailman/archives) and hopefully nobody would notice that there was a change done. Basically, I'm trying to duplicate what I have on mm.isu.edu to lx5.isu.edu and then remove the old mm.isu.edu. I'm I missing any steps or is this possible? -- Kory Wheatley Academic Computing Analyst Sr. Phone 282-3874 ######################################### Everything must point to him. From pioppo at ferrara.linux.it Wed Feb 18 17:58:56 2004 From: pioppo at ferrara.linux.it (Simone Piunno) Date: Wed Feb 18 17:49:48 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Mailman 2.1.4 migration In-Reply-To: <4033A41D.7060306@isu.edu> References: <4033A41D.7060306@isu.edu> Message-ID: <200402182358.56615.pioppo@ferrara.linux.it> On Wednesday 18 February 2004 18:42, Kory Wheatley wrote: > We have Mailman 2.1.4 currently running on a Linux Red Hat 8 box called [...] > My plan was to install a clean version of mailman 2.1.4 on lx5.isu.edu, > then move the mailing lists from mm.isu.edu over to lx5.isu.edu (the > directories that I would move over would be /home/mailman/lists and > /home/mailman/archives) and hopefully nobody would notice that there was > a change done. Other things you should take care of - you must copy or recreate alias/virtual maps for postfix (see genaliases) - while the change to your DNS is propagating though Internet caches, messages will go partly to mm and partly to lx5. This means list archives on lx5 could have some hole and people could experience some temporary glitch (e.g. confirmations requested on mm but the response received on lx5). Try to keep refresh time to a short value during the switch, and/or shut down postfix on mm so that messages will be kept queued until sent to lx5. -- http://thisurlenablesemailtogetthroughoverzealousspamfilters.org From boud1 at wp.pl Wed Feb 18 18:06:27 2004 From: boud1 at wp.pl (boud) Date: Wed Feb 18 18:06:36 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] add to FAQ? - mailman full raw archive mboxes not anti-spammed Message-ID: hi mailman people, terri, i looked for information regarding archtocnombox.html relating to the problem of a full raw mbox archive being non-antispammed, but couldn't find any discussion. It's clear somebody has thought about it, since the file exists. Are there any plans (or any options already present) to have the full raw mbox archive, but corrected for "@" -> " at " (maybe other obvious corrections too), to be made available like the raw spammable version is available if the archtocnombox.html template is not chosen? It seems to me that this should be made an obvious option - or else that the default should be that the full raw archive .mbox is *not* available. At least, could info on this be added to the FAQ somewhere, so that people can easily find out what has already been done? E.g. > 11.2 What does Mailman do to help protect me from unsolicited bulk > email (spam)? http://www.list.org/mailman-member/node40.html i've added a comment on barry warsaw's wiki pages: http://zope.org/Members/bwarsaw/MailmanDesignNotes/MailmanProblems and below is my own analysis. thanks boud (convert from sympa to mailman ;) PS: Sorry if this should be to mailman-users rather than mailman-developers, but it seems to me like a developers' issue. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- SPAM PROBLEM: HYPOTHESIS SOLUTION 2.1.4 HACK SOLUTION 2.0.11 (AND PROBABLY 2.1.1) (1) remove link to *.mbox in /var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/HyperArch.py (2) remove compiled versions HyperArch.py[oc] (3) test on an archive (e.g. imc-pl-tech ;) (4) make the *.mbox/*.mbox files inaccessible (since google links remain) (5) think about newlist s (maybe nothing needs doing) SPAM PROBLEM: ------------ i think this is a known spam problem - by default, it looks like the archive files linked under "download the full raw archive" like the following etc are NOT antispammed: http://lists.mydomain.org/mailman/public/mylist.mbox/mylist.mbox It seems to be present in 2.0.11 and 2.1.1 HYPOTHESIS ---------- IMHO the reason why this is probably not easy to solve is that this is where mail is automatically saved when it's received. If this is filtered by " at " -> "@" then it means that overall there are typically 4 copies of the entire mailbox (e.g. html version, monthly archives, true mailbox with @ hidden from external access, and " at " version for web access). i couldn't find if this has been discussed, but it looks like there's a simple solution in 2.1.4. SOLUTION 2.1.4 -------------- It looks like the solution in mailman-2.1.4 is to offer different templates: mailman-2.1.4/templates/en/archtoc.html mailman-2.1.4/templates/en/archtocentry.html mailman-2.1.4/templates/en/archtocnombox.html -> this one has no mbox e.g. http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-announce/ has no *.mbox/*.mbox In fact, http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-announce.mbox/ exists but nothing in it is accessible. HACK SOLUTION 2.0.11 (AND PROBABLY 2.1.1) ---------------------------------------- In 2.0.11, the line pointing to the .mbox is in /var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/HyperArch.py (for Debian anyway ;) You can get more information about this list or you can download the full raw archive (%(size)s).

solution: (1) remove the link to the full .mbox in /var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/HyperArch.py To do this, replace You can get more information about this list or you can download the full raw archive (%(size)s).

by You can get more information about this list.

(2) remove compiled versions (in my case the .pyc gets automatically recompiled) rm /var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/HyperArch.py[co] (3) test this cd /var/lib/mailman/archives/public/ /usr/lib/mailman/bin/arch mylist Then check out: http://lists.mydomain.org/pipermail/mylist/ Hopefully there will be no link to the .mbox and even direct access will be impossible. (4) make the .mbox files inaccessible - since google links will still hang around for some time chmod go-rw /var/lib/mailman/archives/private/*.mbox/*.mbox (5) probably nothing needed when running newlist for new lists. Making new lists will, by default, write *.mbox/*.mbox which are web accessible, but nobody is going to link to them (unless paranoid, deliberately wants to subject indymedia users to spam, ...) anti-spam solidarity boud ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From boud1 at wp.pl Wed Feb 18 18:12:07 2004 From: boud1 at wp.pl (boud) Date: Wed Feb 18 18:12:14 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Re: add to FAQ? - mailman full raw archive mboxes not anti-spammed In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 19 Feb 2004, boud wrote: > e.g. > http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-announce/ has no *.mbox/*.mbox > In fact, > http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-announce.mbox/ > exists but nothing in it is accessible. In fact the mbox file *does* exist and is accessible if you look in the obvious place: (add in "mailman-announce.mbox" after ".mbox/") i won't write the URL directly because i don't want to point google to it. So 2.1.4 is not as safe from spiders/harversters as it could be. boud From terri at zone12.com Wed Feb 18 18:25:13 2004 From: terri at zone12.com (Terri Oda) Date: Wed Feb 18 18:25:34 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Re: add to FAQ? - mailman full raw archive mboxes not anti-spammed In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I don't think the explanation of how to do this belongs in the user manual, which is the only documentation I've written currently (and I assume why you specifically CC'ed me on this message), but the FAQ is a good place for now since the other manuals for 2.1 haven't been completed. If you haven't seen it already, the user-addable FAQ is available at http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Please do put the info there if it isn't already, since I'm sure this'll be handy for other people. From boud1 at wp.pl Wed Feb 18 19:57:38 2004 From: boud1 at wp.pl (boud) Date: Wed Feb 18 19:57:45 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Re: add to FAQ? - mailman full raw archive mboxes not anti-spammed In-Reply-To: Message-ID: thanks :) - done: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.034.htp (but now i've got my email spammably posted to the RCS :( ) On Wed, 18 Feb 2004, Terri Oda wrote: > I don't think the explanation of how to do this belongs in the user > manual, which is the only documentation I've written currently (and I This page of the user manual has the title: http://www.list.org/mailman-member/node40.html > 11.2 What does Mailman do to help protect me from unsolicited bulk > email (spam)? My guess in version 2.1.4 is that the file archtocnombox.html has to be chosen sometime during installation if the user wishes to use it. Doesn't this mean it should be in the user manual under this question? Or is it too technical a question? Maybe a developer should add some comment to the INSTALL file or a README.* ? grep archtocnmbox mailman-2.1.4/* gives no hint at all. boud From tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp Thu Feb 19 08:02:54 2004 From: tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp (Tokio Kikuchi) Date: Thu Feb 19 08:03:31 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Re: [Mailman-Users] cascaded lists -- any tips? In-Reply-To: <20040219092416.GD17496@piper.madduck.net> References: <20040212142701.GA17576@diamond.madduck.net> <4033F6E7.3060201@is.kochi-u.ac.jp> <20040219092416.GD17496@piper.madduck.net> Message-ID: <4034B3FE.1090700@is.kochi-u.ac.jp> martin f krafft wrote: > also sprach Tokio Kikuchi [2004.02.19.0036 +0100]: > >>>This works okay until someone posts a message to A, which is to be >>>moderated. I accept the message for A, and then am asked to do the >>>same for B and C, then for D, E, F and then for G, H. Thus, I have >>>to visit the moderation interface 8 times for a single message. >> >>You can register A address in acceptable_aliases from >>admin/(B|C|D|E|F|G|H)/privacy/recipient. > > > that's not my problem. i already have the above in place. but now, > when e.g. a nonmember posts to A and I let it through. i already > decided in A's interface that the message may pass. however, i have > to tell all the other lists that it may pass as well. that's mildly > annoying. Oops. You have to open the child lists by setting generic_member_action as 'accept' which may not be acceptable to you. :-< Or, .... Hmm... You may hack SpamDetect.py's last line as --- SpamDetect.py.orig Thu Feb 19 21:40:56 2004 +++ SpamDetect.py Thu Feb 19 21:43:14 2004 @@ -122,4 +122,4 @@ if action == mm_cfg.HOLD: hold_for_approval(mlist, msg, msgdata, HeaderMatchHold) if action == mm_cfg.ACCEPT: - return + msgdata['approved'] = 1 and put the A list address in privacy/spam / accept header reg-expression. Hey! developers. 'return' in the last line may be a bug. If you have an 'accept' rule on top of the sapm filter list, the rest of the rules may be skipped. -- Tokio Kikuchi, tkikuchi@ is.kochi-u.ac.jp http://weather.is.kochi-u.ac.jp/ From brad.knowles at skynet.be Thu Feb 19 15:11:51 2004 From: brad.knowles at skynet.be (Brad Knowles) Date: Thu Feb 19 18:45:39 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Mailman 2.1.4 migration In-Reply-To: <4033A41D.7060306@isu.edu> References: <4033A41D.7060306@isu.edu> Message-ID: At 10:42 AM -0700 2004/02/18, Kory Wheatley wrote: > My plan was to install a clean version of mailman 2.1.4 on lx5.isu.edu, > then move the mailing lists from mm.isu.edu over to lx5.isu.edu (the > directories that I would move over would be /home/mailman/lists and > /home/mailman/archives) and hopefully nobody would notice that there > was a change done. Basically, I'm trying to duplicate what I have > on mm.isu.edu to lx5.isu.edu and then remove the old mm.isu.edu. > I'm I missing any steps or is this possible? This is basically the sort of thing that I'm doing for ntp.org. My plan is to set up the new machine, copying all the configuration information from the old machine, but not populating the list or archives just yet. Do a test for each list to some addresses I own, making sure that the behaviour is as desired with regards to how the list reacts when a subscribed or unsubscribed user posts. Once proper behaviour is confirmed for all lists (including USENET news gateway features, but posting to a suitable ".test" newsgroup instead), then copy the subscriber lists over for all lists. Shut down the mail servers on both the old and new systems, so that nothing comes in while you're moving things over. Set up aliases on the old server to the addresses on the new one, so that all mail for those lists are forwarded to the correct place (just comment out the old alias entries, in case you need to restore the previous behaviour). Once complete, copy the archives over and set up similar internal redirects within the web server, so that incoming browsers are redirected to the correct place. Keep an eye on things for a while. Once we're satisfied, then change the DNS records so that the MX and IP address point directly to the new server. At least, that's my current plan. However, I will also closely review , and then see if there are any other additions/changes that need to be made. -- Brad Knowles, "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania. GCS/IT d+(-) s:+(++)>: a C++(+++)$ UMBSHI++++$ P+>++ L+ !E-(---) W+++(--) N+ !w--- O- M++ V PS++(+++) PE- Y+(++) PGP>+++ t+(+++) 5++(+++) X++(+++) R+(+++) tv+(+++) b+(++++) DI+(++++) D+(++) G+(++++) e++>++++ h--- r---(+++)* z(+++) From tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp Thu Feb 19 18:55:21 2004 From: tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp (Tokio Kikuchi) Date: Thu Feb 19 18:55:34 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Re: [Mailman-Users] cascaded lists -- any tips? In-Reply-To: <4034B3FE.1090700@is.kochi-u.ac.jp> References: <20040212142701.GA17576@diamond.madduck.net> <4033F6E7.3060201@is.kochi-u.ac.jp> <20040219092416.GD17496@piper.madduck.net> <4034B3FE.1090700@is.kochi-u.ac.jp> Message-ID: <40354CE9.9040206@is.kochi-u.ac.jp> Folks, Never mind this. I was confused. There is no bug. > Hey! developers. 'return' in the last line may be a bug. If you have > an 'accept' rule on top of the sapm filter list, the rest of the rules > may be skipped. > -- Tokio Kikuchi, tkikuchi@ is.kochi-u.ac.jp http://weather.is.kochi-u.ac.jp/ From shigeno at iij-mc.co.jp Fri Feb 20 09:10:13 2004 From: shigeno at iij-mc.co.jp (SHIGENO Kazutaka) Date: Fri Feb 20 09:10:26 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] pipermail.py and self.datestr Message-ID: <20040220.231013.112794645.shigeno@iij-mc.co.jp> Hi, The definition of self.datestr does not exist in pipermail.py. How about using the following patch? --- pipermail.py 7 Jan 2004 02:41:46 -0000 1.1.1.1 +++ pipermail.py 20 Feb 2004 13:19:33 -0000 @@ -240,6 +240,11 @@ self._last_article_time = date self.date = '%011i' % date + datestr = message.get('date', None) + if datestr is None: + datestr = message.get('x-list-received-date', None) + self.datestr = datestr + def __repr__(self): return '
' -- shigeno From terri at zone12.com Fri Feb 20 12:02:15 2004 From: terri at zone12.com (Terri Oda) Date: Fri Feb 20 12:02:40 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Re: add to FAQ? - mailman full raw archive mboxes not anti-spammed In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <88E68B10-63C6-11D8-9778-000D934FBF38@zone12.com> On Feb 18, 2004, at 7:57 PM, boud wrote: > http://www.list.org/mailman-member/node40.html >> 11.2 What does Mailman do to help protect me from unsolicited bulk >> email (spam)? > > My guess in version 2.1.4 is that the file archtocnombox.html has to > be chosen sometime during installation if the user wishes to use > it. Doesn't this mean it should be in the user manual under this > question? Or is it too technical a question? Basically, I'm trying to keep the list member manual to things that subscribers can change themselves. I mention things of interest, but a full explanation doesn't seem appropriate here -- it would belong in the list and/or site admin manuals. Terri From barry at python.org Sun Feb 22 17:15:01 2004 From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw) Date: Sun Feb 22 17:15:08 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] list bug In-Reply-To: <6.0.1.1.2.20040212163953.02e5d5c0@lennier.cc.vt.edu> References: <6.0.1.1.2.20040212163953.02e5d5c0@lennier.cc.vt.edu> Message-ID: <1077488100.18607.2.camel@anthem.wooz.org> On Thu, 2004-02-12 at 16:42, Ron Jarrell wrote: > I just hit this on one of my lists, when someone tried to subscribe: > Bug in Mailman version 2.1.5a3 I have a boat load of changes that are going into cvs now. I think this particular issue has been fixed. Wait for 2.1.5a4. -Barry From barry at python.org Sun Feb 22 17:19:44 2004 From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw) Date: Sun Feb 22 17:19:51 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] list bug In-Reply-To: <6.0.1.1.2.20040215155344.025c3590@lennier.cc.vt.edu> References: <6.0.1.1.2.20040215155344.025c3590@lennier.cc.vt.edu> Message-ID: <1077488384.18607.4.camel@anthem.wooz.org> On Sun, 2004-02-15 at 15:53, Ron Jarrell wrote: > Also, in the current cvs, scripts/driver doesn't import mm_cfg, so > doesn't get the definition of True, which it then proceeds to use. On the 2.1 branch? Are you sure? -Barry From web at 3dresearch.com Sun Feb 22 17:52:17 2004 From: web at 3dresearch.com (jd) Date: Sun Feb 22 17:52:22 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Bug in Mailman version 2.1.4 Message-ID: <20040222225217.EE76893318@smtp.3dresearch.com> Since we have upgraded to Mailman version 2.1.4, I'm getting this error message when trying to use the web interface to any of our lists: Bug in Mailman version 2.1.4 We're sorry, we hit a bug! If you would like to help us identify the problem, please email a copy of this page to the webmaster for this site with a description of what happened. Thanks! Traceback: Traceback (most recent call last): File "/usr/local/mailman/scripts/driver", line 68, in run_main immediate=1) File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Logging/StampedLogger.py", line 52, in __init__ Logger.__init__(self, category, nofail, immediate) File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Logging/Logger.py", line 49, in __init__ self.__get_f() File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Logging/Logger.py", line 67, in __get_f 1) File "/usr/local/lib/python2.3/codecs.py", line 566, in open file = __builtin__.open(filename, mode, buffering) IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied: '/usr/local/mailman/logs/error' ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- Python information: Variable Value sys.version 2.3.3 (#1, Feb 13 2004, 15:23:55) [GCC 2.95.4 20020320 [FreeBSD]] sys.executable /usr/local/bin/python sys.prefix /usr/local sys.exec_prefix /usr/local sys.path /usr/local sys.platform freebsd4 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- Environment variables: Variable Value SERVER_SOFTWARE Apache/1.3.27 (Unix) FrontPage/5.0.2.2510 SCRIPT_NAME /mailman/admin SERVER_SIGNATURE Apache/1.3.27 Server at master-new.3dresearch.com Port 80 REQUEST_METHOD GET PATH_INFO /andrologyforum SERVER_PROTOCOL HTTP/1.1 QUERY_STRING HTTP_USER_AGENT Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows NT 5.1) HTTP_CONNECTION Keep-Alive SERVER_NAME master-new.3dresearch.com REMOTE_ADDR 209.195.177.46 PATH_TRANSLATED /usr/local/www/data/andrologyforum SERVER_PORT 80 SERVER_ADDR 66.167.251.12 DOCUMENT_ROOT /usr/local/www/data PYTHONPATH /usr/local/mailman SCRIPT_FILENAME /usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin/admin SERVER_ADMIN you@your.address HTTP_HOST lists.3dresearch.com REQUEST_URI /mailman/admin/andrologyforum HTTP_ACCEPT */* GATEWAY_INTERFACE CGI/1.1 REMOTE_PORT 1455 HTTP_ACCEPT_LANGUAGE en-us HTTP_ACCEPT_ENCODING gzip, deflate UNIQUE_ID QDGTeX8AAAEAABSolSI I have run check_perms -f and it says "No problems found" - I'd appreciate your advice... jd From javier.romero at cedex.es Mon Feb 23 06:48:12 2004 From: javier.romero at cedex.es (javier) Date: Mon Feb 23 06:50:47 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] [Fwd: [Fwd: [Mailman-Users] problems with moderated list]] Message-ID: <4039E87C.6090700@cedex.es> Could somebody write me where messages-waiting-to-moderation are stored? i have problem with moderation, messages are lost... this is my config, and i think i have to share more directories than /list and / archives..... _________________________________________________ Hi people! The two machines has the same DNSname, but diferent IP number. two mailmans are working good... you can create list from two machines... i put special attention in user and groups, and i had to change the mailman uid&gid to be the same number in 3 machines (mailman1,mailman2,NFS store). Ok, i installed two mailman first, i linked (ln -s) /archives & /lists to two NFS directories and checkperms -f to solve permision problems. This is a mailman machine (Sunfire v120, solaris 8): bash-2.03$ cd /usr/local/mailman/ bash-2.03$ ls -la total 54 drwxrwsr-x 18 mailman mailman 512 Oct 29 11:06 . drwxr-xr-x 11 root other 512 Sep 19 12:00 .. lrwxrwxrwx 1 root mailman 26 Jul 3 2003 archives -> /dirarcon/mailman/archives drwxrwsr-x 2 root mailman 1024 Oct 7 12:23 bin drwxrwsr-x 2 root mailman 512 Oct 7 12:23 cgi-bin -rw-r----- 1 root mailman 4133 Oct 22 10:42 config.pck drwxrwsr-x 2 root mailman 512 Oct 7 12:25 cron drwxrwsr-x 2 root mailman 2048 Nov 9 08:38 data drwxrwsr-x 2 root mailman 512 Oct 7 12:23 icons lrwxrwxrwx 1 root mailman 23 Jul 3 2003 lists -> /dirarcon/mailman/lists drwxrwsr-x 2 root mailman 512 Jan 22 09:45 locks drwxrwsr-x 2 root mailman 512 Oct 1 08:26 logs drwxrwsr-x 2 root mailman 512 Oct 7 12:23 mail drwxrwsr-x 11 root mailman 1536 Nov 3 14:20 Mailman drwxrwsr-x 24 root mailman 512 Oct 7 11:27 messages drwxrwsr-x 6 root mailman 512 Jul 1 2003 pythonlib drwxrwsr-x 11 root mailman 512 Oct 7 11:34 qfiles drwxrwsr-x 2 root mailman 512 Oct 7 12:42 scripts drwxrwsr-x 2 root mailman 512 Jul 1 2003 spam drwxrwsr-x 26 root mailman 512 Oct 7 11:27 templates drwxrwsr-x 4 root mailman 512 Oct 7 12:23 tests Now is fully working good, if you create a new list two machines can view them, and all is working ok since 3 months. Before this, sometimes lists got locked, but Richard gave me the fix: Richard's solution------------------------------------------------------ >From a quick look at the code, I think this may happen if a message has an invalid Content-type: header of the form: Content-type: text/foo; charset= That is, it has a charset parameter but no actual value has been assigned to it. But I could be wrong. As a quick fix you could try changing line 280 of $prefix/Mailman/Handlers/Scrubber.py from: if charset is None or charset == 'us-ascii': to: if charset is None or charset == '' or charset == 'us-ascii': If you try this hack let me know whether it works or not. I am not sure if this is the best long term fix but if it appears to work I will look at the problem a bit further. Do not forget to backup the Scrubber.py before changing it in case you have to revert to the original. Regards Richard --------------------------------------------------------------------------- i hope you enjoy this installation, it works, and if a mailman machine crash you have other machine to continue working with mailmans Regards and Thank you for your help! -- Javier Romero Casado tel.913357274 Dep. Comunicaciones CEDEX ------------------------------------------------------ Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ This message was sent to: javier.romero@cedex.es Unsubscribe or change your options at http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/javier.romero%40cedex.es -- Javier Romero Casado tel.913357274 Dep. Comunicaciones CEDEX ------------------------------------------------------ Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ This message was sent to: javier.romero@cedex.es Unsubscribe or change your options at http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/javier.romero%40cedex.es -- Javier Romero Casado tel.913357274 Dep. Comunicaciones CEDEX From rmg at terc.edu Mon Feb 23 13:22:25 2004 From: rmg at terc.edu (Robby Griffin) Date: Mon Feb 23 13:22:33 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] [Fwd: [Fwd: [Mailman-Users] problems with moderated list]] In-Reply-To: <4039E87C.6090700@cedex.es> Message-ID: <3B2AE532-662D-11D8-BBF5-000A95A0C58E@terc.edu> On Monday, Feb 23, 2004, at 06:48 US/Eastern, javier wrote: > Could somebody write me where messages-waiting-to-moderation are > stored? > i have problem with moderation, messages are lost... > > this is my config, and i think i have to share more directories than > /list and / archives..... > _________________________________________________ > Hi people! > > The two machines has the same DNSname, but diferent IP number. > two mailmans are working good... you can create list from two > machines... i put special attention in user and groups, and i had to > change the mailman uid&gid to be the same number in 3 machines > (mailman1,mailman2,NFS store). Held messages will show up in "data", but so does the qrunner pid file... You will probably want to change mm_cfg.PIDFILE to something in a local directory on each machine. --Robby From Heiko.Scheit at mpi-hd.mpg.de Mon Feb 16 05:33:33 2004 From: Heiko.Scheit at mpi-hd.mpg.de (Heiko.Scheit@mpi-hd.mpg.de) Date: Mon Feb 23 22:45:28 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] bug report submitted: admin password is checked when it should not Message-ID: For your information: I just submitted the bug report below on the SF mailman page. Greetings, Heiko. admin password is checked when it should ----------------------------------------- To see the problem you have to be the administrator of a list. Go to the members options login page .../mailman/options/ and enter something like a valid email address, e.g.: xxx@xxx.xxx and as password enter the ADMIN password! You will get something like: Bug in Mailman version 2.1.4 We're sorry, we hit a bug! The problem seems to be that the password entered in the members options login page is also checked against the admin password, which should not be done. It should only be checked if the admin-cookie is set, so that the admin (who logged on via the admin page) can also modify user settings. What is worse: if you enter a valid email address (of a list member) and the admin password you are the admin. So, any list member that happens to choose the same password as the admin has full access to the administrative interface. Somehow I think it would be better to also have an admin username and not just an admin password. Or, for each member an admin flag can be set. The admin has to be a member and can login with email and password as anybody else. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Heiko Scheit | http://www.mpi-hd.mpg.de/cb Max-Planck-Institut f"ur Kernphysik | Saupfercheckweg 1 | heiko.scheit@mpi-hd.mpg.de 69117 Heidelberg | TEL ++49 6221 516 529 GERMANY | FAX ++49 6221 516 602 From Franz at lax.priv.at Wed Feb 18 05:38:55 2004 From: Franz at lax.priv.at (Franz Lax) Date: Mon Feb 23 22:45:31 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] german Umlaute in email adresses -> error message In-Reply-To: <1069425559.2383.15.camel@anthem> References: <1069425559.2383.15.camel@anthem> Message-ID: <20040218103855.GC32741@sil.at> Bug in Mailman version 2.1.4 hello as I experince repeated problems with people providing wrong email adresses (eg. by using german Umlaute as ??? etc.) I would like to suggest to implement a routine checking for the validity of an email address entered by the user. the relpy on the website is in such a case as follows: We're sorry, we hit a bug! If you would like to help us identify the problem, please email a copy of this page to the webmaster for this site with a description of what happened. Thanks! Traceback: Traceback (most recent call last): File "/usr/local/mailman/scripts/driver", line 87, in run_main main() File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/options.py", line 226, in main password, user): File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/SecurityManager.py", line 220, in WebAuthenticate ok = self.CheckCookie(ac, user) File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/SecurityManager.py", line 300, in CheckCookie ok = self.__checkone(c, authcontext, user) File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/SecurityManager.py", line 310, in __checkone key, secret = self.AuthContextInfo(authcontext, user) File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/SecurityManager.py", line 105, in AuthContextInfo secret = self.getMemberPassword(user) File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/OldStyleMemberships.py", line 102, in getMemberPassword raise Errors.NotAMemberError, member NotAMemberError: t???f@sil.at Python information: Variable Value sys.version 2.1.3 (#1, Sep 7 2002, 15:29:56) [GCC 2.95.4 20011002 (Debian prerelease)] sys.executable /usr/bin/python sys.prefix /usr sys.exec_prefix /usr sys.path /usr sys.platform linux2 Environment variables: Variable Value DOCUMENT_ROOT /var/www/mailman.sil.at SERVER_ADDR 213.129.232.15 HTTP_ACCEPT_ENCODING deflate, gzip, x-gzip, identity, *;q=0 CONTENT_LENGTH 53 CONTENT_TYPE application/x-www-form-urlencoded PATH_TRANSLATED /var/www/mailman.sil.at/obelix REMOTE_ADDR 62.116.122.5 GATEWAY_INTERFACE CGI/1.1 UNIQUE_ID QDM-QdWB6A8AACGuER8 REQUEST_URI /mailman/options/obelix SERVER_PROTOCOL HTTP/1.1 REMOTE_PORT 23073 SERVER_PORT 80 HTTP_CONNECTION Keep-Alive, TE HTTP_USER_AGENT Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Linux 2.4.24 i586) Opera 7.11 [en] HTTP_ACCEPT_CHARSET iso-8859-1, utf-8, utf-16, *;q=0.1 HTTP_ACCEPT text/html, image/png, image/jpeg, image/gif, image/x-xbitmap, */*;q=0.1 HTTP_TE deflate, gzip, chunked, identity, trailers HTTP_COOKIE2 $Version=1 QUERY_STRING SCRIPT_FILENAME /usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin/options PATH_INFO /obelix HTTP_HOST mailman.sil.at REQUEST_METHOD POST SERVER_SIGNATURE Apache/1.3.26 Server at mailman.sil.at Port 80 SCRIPT_NAME /mailman/options SERVER_ADMIN franz@mailman.sil.at SERVER_SOFTWARE Apache/1.3.26 (Unix) Debian GNU/Linux PYTHONPATH /usr/local/mailman HTTP_COOKIE obelix+admin=280200000069383e3340732800000037303633643963616336643737343063356235376632333934326338396161613962666638393737 SERVER_NAME mailman.sil.at HTTP_REFERER http://mailman.sil.at/mailman/options/obelix/t?f@sil.at kind regards, franz From jbebel at ncsu.edu Wed Feb 11 14:08:11 2004 From: jbebel at ncsu.edu (Joel Ebel) Date: Mon Feb 23 22:45:57 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] 3.1.4 upgrade problem Message-ID: <402A7D9B.60307@ncsu.edu> After upgrading to 3.1.4 from 3.1.3 I now have a problem when any post is attempted. Perhaps someone can help me with this. Traceback (most recent call last): File "/usr/local/mailman/scripts/post", line 69, in ? main() File "/usr/local/mailman/scripts/post", line 64, in main tolist=1, _plaintext=1) File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Switchboard.py", line 133, in enqueue os.fsync(msgfp.fileno()) AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'fsync' 554 5.3.0 unknown mailer error 1 Thanks, Joel From jbebel at ncsu.edu Wed Feb 11 14:18:05 2004 From: jbebel at ncsu.edu (Joel Ebel) Date: Mon Feb 23 22:46:04 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] 3.1.4 upgrade problem Message-ID: <402A7FED.9030200@ncsu.edu> After upgrading to 3.1.4 from 3.1.3 I now have a problem when any post is attempted. Perhaps someone can help me with this. Traceback (most recent call last): File "/usr/local/mailman/scripts/post", line 69, in ? main() File "/usr/local/mailman/scripts/post", line 64, in main tolist=1, _plaintext=1) File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Switchboard.py", line 133, in enqueue os.fsync(msgfp.fileno()) AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'fsync' 554 5.3.0 unknown mailer error 1 Thanks, Joel From kollar at mit.bme.hu Fri Feb 13 05:14:25 2004 From: kollar at mit.bme.hu (Istvan Kollar) Date: Mon Feb 23 22:46:18 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] mailman national support Message-ID: Gentlemen, I am very happy to use mailman. Especially to see that lately the Hungarian support was introduced. I have switched to Hungarian for the sake of some list members. However, with this, I have two problems. In Hungarian, we have two forms to address the other one. The youth and the familiy members say "te" (thou) to each other, with related forms in the sentences, while unknown people say ?n (you) to each other. The former form is rather unpolite when addressing an unknown, not young person. The Hungarian sentences are currently all in the first form. I have had bad moments explaining to list members why this is so... I would be happy to contribute in formulating each expression in the other way. We could even have two selectable Hungarian options: Hungarian (Te) Hungarian (?n) Moreover, the present Hungarian sentences are partly wrong, or unfinished. A series of corrections are necessary. Is there anybody who maintains tese texts? Best regards Istv?n ------------------------ Istv?n Koll?r, professor of EE Department of Measurement and Information Systems Budapest University of Technology and Economics Postal box address: Budapest, Hungary, H-1521, P.O.Box 91. Address for Fedex, DHL, UPS, EMS, etc. (no P.O.B): see office address Office: Budapest, XI. Magyar tud?sok k?r?tja 2. Bldg. I, wing E, level IV, Room E440, Hungary, H-1117 (secr.: wing E, Room E444) Phone: +36 1 463-1774 (also voice mail), secr. +36 1 463-2057 Fax: +36 1 463-4112 Email: kollar@mit.bme.hu, URL: http://www.mit.bme.hu/~kollar/ From madduck at madduck.net Thu Feb 19 08:18:49 2004 From: madduck at madduck.net (martin f krafft) Date: Mon Feb 23 22:46:36 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Re: [Mailman-Users] cascaded lists -- any tips? In-Reply-To: <4034B3FE.1090700@is.kochi-u.ac.jp> References: <20040212142701.GA17576@diamond.madduck.net> <4033F6E7.3060201@is.kochi-u.ac.jp> <20040219092416.GD17496@piper.madduck.net> <4034B3FE.1090700@is.kochi-u.ac.jp> Message-ID: <20040219131849.GC28949@diamond.madduck.net> also sprach Tokio Kikuchi [2004.02.19.1402 +0100]: > Or, .... Hmm... You may hack SpamDetect.py's last line as > > --- SpamDetect.py.orig Thu Feb 19 21:40:56 2004 > +++ SpamDetect.py Thu Feb 19 21:43:14 2004 > @@ -122,4 +122,4 @@ > if action == mm_cfg.HOLD: > hold_for_approval(mlist, msg, msgdata, HeaderMatchHold) > if action == mm_cfg.ACCEPT: > - return > + msgdata['approved'] = 1 > > and put the A list address in privacy/spam / accept header > reg-expression. This is a hack, right? Essentially, I am using the spam whitelist to circumvent all moderation for certain recipients. Albeit rather dirty, this may be my best call for now, since the spam regexps are otherwise not used. It would be great to have two whitelists for sender and receiver for each list, which cause approval without moderation checks. -- martin; (greetings from the heart of the sun.) \____ echo mailto: !#^."<*>"|tr "<*> mailto:" net@madduck invalid/expired pgp subkeys? use subkeys.pgp.net as keyserver! all information contained in the above is false, for reasons of military security. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature Url : http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-developers/attachments/20040219/2f5c7784/attachment.bin From Pavel.Petrovic at idi.ntnu.no Tue Feb 17 18:08:21 2004 From: Pavel.Petrovic at idi.ntnu.no (Pavel Petrovic) Date: Mon Feb 23 22:46:59 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] regexp in Privacy Options - (?!...) ? Message-ID: <200402172308.i1HN8NlO004382@furu.idi.ntnu.no> hi, i'd like to use the following regexp in the "hold posts with header value matching a specified regexp." option of the privacy options section of mailman 2.0.10 list owner config pages: from: (?!john).*@hotmail.com to make all messages coming from hotmail require admin approval, except of messages coming from john@hotmail.com, which should be accepted without approval. i cannot make this work, though. any hints how one could achieve this functionality? (more specific: the list should be open for posts from anywhere without approval, but hotmail and similar spammers should be filtered, except of some known exceptions) thanks, pavel. p.s. please reply also to my address as i am not member of this list. From postings at creatingfutures.net Fri Feb 13 13:25:37 2004 From: postings at creatingfutures.net (Richard D'Andrea Dover) Date: Mon Feb 23 22:47:10 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] edited archive folder-edits lost when message posts Message-ID: <05f401c3f25e$c8f653e0$0e00a8c0@newtech> I edited the archive index.html folder for my mailing list. I also edited the date.html and subject.html to have the appearance I wanted. Everything looked good until there was a post. When a post is made to the list all my data is erased and the archive index.html, date.html, and subject.html went back to default. Why is this? How can I change the archive files to look the way I want? From Rawfeednews at aol.com Wed Feb 11 01:35:23 2004 From: Rawfeednews at aol.com (Rawfeednews@aol.com) Date: Mon Feb 23 22:47:23 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] (no subject) Message-ID: <2d.39876ddb.2d5b272b@aol.com> Hi, I am having trouble sending e-mail to my mailing list...I created a list and I have been using it for about 6 months, but all of a sudden, when I e-mail a post...it just disappears and doesn't even appear on the moderator's page. Please let me know, Vin www.the-voice.us From sbackman at askmoses.com Mon Feb 16 00:04:45 2004 From: sbackman at askmoses.com (S. Backman) Date: Mon Feb 23 22:47:45 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Duplicate footers Message-ID: I've seen this posted several times, but have not found the answer. Is there any way to avoid duplicate (or more) copies of a footer showing up on a post as a result of multiple replies? Is there a type of delimiter (star or dash) that can be identified by mailman as the start of a footer, which will indicate a point where mailman would strip the following text until the next delimiter, before adding the footer. This would affectively remove all previous footers before adding a new one. S. Backman From web at 3dresearch.com Mon Feb 16 23:40:46 2004 From: web at 3dresearch.com (jd) Date: Mon Feb 23 22:47:51 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Bug in Mailman version 2.1.4 Message-ID: <20040217044046.8FBC6929D8@smtp.3dresearch.com> Since we have upgraded to Mailman version 2.1.4, I'm getting this error message when trying to use the web interface to any of our lists: Bug in Mailman version 2.1.4 We're sorry, we hit a bug! If you would like to help us identify the problem, please email a copy of this page to the webmaster for this site with a description of what happened. Thanks! Traceback: Traceback (most recent call last): File "/usr/local/mailman/scripts/driver", line 68, in run_main immediate=1) File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Logging/StampedLogger.py", line 52, in __init__ Logger.__init__(self, category, nofail, immediate) File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Logging/Logger.py", line 49, in __init__ self.__get_f() File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Logging/Logger.py", line 67, in __get_f 1) File "/usr/local/lib/python2.3/codecs.py", line 566, in open file = __builtin__.open(filename, mode, buffering) IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied: '/usr/local/mailman/logs/error' ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- Python information: Variable Value sys.version 2.3.3 (#1, Feb 13 2004, 15:23:55) [GCC 2.95.4 20020320 [FreeBSD]] sys.executable /usr/local/bin/python sys.prefix /usr/local sys.exec_prefix /usr/local sys.path /usr/local sys.platform freebsd4 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- Environment variables: Variable Value SERVER_SOFTWARE Apache/1.3.27 (Unix) FrontPage/5.0.2.2510 SCRIPT_NAME /mailman/admin SERVER_SIGNATURE Apache/1.3.27 Server at master-new.3dresearch.com Port 80 REQUEST_METHOD GET PATH_INFO /andrologyforum SERVER_PROTOCOL HTTP/1.1 QUERY_STRING HTTP_USER_AGENT Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows NT 5.1) HTTP_CONNECTION Keep-Alive SERVER_NAME master-new.3dresearch.com REMOTE_ADDR 209.195.177.46 PATH_TRANSLATED /usr/local/www/data/andrologyforum SERVER_PORT 80 SERVER_ADDR 66.167.251.12 DOCUMENT_ROOT /usr/local/www/data PYTHONPATH /usr/local/mailman SCRIPT_FILENAME /usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin/admin SERVER_ADMIN you@your.address HTTP_HOST lists.3dresearch.com REQUEST_URI /mailman/admin/andrologyforum HTTP_ACCEPT */* GATEWAY_INTERFACE CGI/1.1 REMOTE_PORT 1455 HTTP_ACCEPT_LANGUAGE en-us HTTP_ACCEPT_ENCODING gzip, deflate UNIQUE_ID QDGTeX8AAAEAABSolSI I have run check_perms -f and it says "No problems found" - I'd appreciate your advice... jd Janos Dohanics From nick.vdkloor at for-nation.com Tue Feb 24 04:29:19 2004 From: nick.vdkloor at for-nation.com (nick.vdkloor@for-nation.com) Date: Tue Feb 24 04:28:24 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Messages to hotmail are dropped Message-ID: <50883.145.221.92.40.1077614959.squirrel@www.for-nation.com> Dear Mailman developers, our company is using Mailman 2.1.4. Our database has got a total of 2000 members. About 60% of them are hotmailaddresses. After sending our last mail I noticed that almost none of the hotmailusers received a mailing. I noticed that because I created a couple of hotmail test account. When I tried to send a mailing with our testmailinglist which consist of only 2 hotmailaddresses (the same that are in our main mailinglist) they do receive the mailing. I assume that the Hotmail spooler discards mails when they are sent in large groups, I don't know the exact numbers. Is there a way to bypass it? Cause our mailings are not spam, every member did subscribe to our list. Is there maybe a setting to configure which can set a delay between sending a couple of mails? I hope you guys can help me out on this one. Thanx in advance, Nick van der Kloor FOR-Mail Foundation of Recreation From javier.romero at cedex.es Tue Feb 24 06:35:55 2004 From: javier.romero at cedex.es (javier) Date: Tue Feb 24 06:38:41 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] changing DFILE = os.path.join(QUEUE_DIR, 'master-qrunner.pid') Message-ID: <403B371B.8020608@cedex.es> OK! i did it! this is my new files and folders : bash-2.03# ls -la total 60 drwxrwsr-x 18 mailman mailman 512 Feb 24 11:22 . drwxr-xr-x 11 root other 512 Feb 19 13:49 .. drwxrwsr-x 11 root mailman 1536 Feb 24 12:04 Mailman lrwxrwxrwx 1 root mailman 26 Jul 3 2003 archives -> /dirarcon/mailman/archives drwxrwsr-x 2 root mailman 1024 Feb 20 09:24 bin drwxrwsr-x 2 root mailman 512 Oct 7 12:23 cgi-bin -rw-r----- 1 root mailman 4133 Oct 22 10:42 config.pck drwxrwsr-x 2 root mailman 512 Oct 7 12:25 cron lrwxrwxrwx 1 root mailman 22 Feb 24 11:22 data -> /dirarcon/mailman/data drwxrwsr-x 2 root mailman 512 Oct 7 12:23 icons lrwxrwxrwx 1 root mailman 23 Jul 3 2003 lists -> /dirarcon/mailman/lists drwxrwsr-x 2 root mailman 512 Feb 24 12:30 locks drwxrwsr-x 2 root mailman 512 Oct 1 08:26 logs drwxrwsr-x 2 root mailman 512 Oct 7 12:23 mail -rw-r----- 1 root mailman 5 Feb 24 11:12 master-qrunner.pid drwxrwsr-x 24 root mailman 512 Oct 7 11:27 messages drwxrwsr-x 2 root mailman 2560 Feb 23 15:37 olddata drwxrwsr-x 6 root mailman 512 Jul 1 2003 pythonlib drwxrwsr-x 11 root mailman 512 Feb 24 12:05 qfiles drwxrwsr-x 2 root mailman 512 Oct 7 12:42 scripts drwxrwsr-x 2 root mailman 512 Jul 1 2003 spam drwxrwsr-x 26 root mailman 512 Oct 7 11:27 templates drwxrwsr-x 4 root mailman 512 Oct 7 12:23 tests and this is my changed mm_cfg.py from Defaults import * ################################################## # Put YOUR site-specific settings below this line DEFAULT_SERVER_LANGUAGE = 'es' MAILMAN_SITE_LIST = 'comunicaciones' DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'cdxweb.cedex.es' DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'cdxweb.cedex.es' PIDFILE = os.path.join(QUEUE_DIR, 'master-qrunner.pid') "mm_cfg.py" 51 lines, 1858 characters so master-qrunner.pid is saved now into /qfiles... maimanctl started fine, but i have same problem!!! moderated members of list send a message to the list and nothing happen!! no "waiting for approval" message to moderated-member or to me (moderator) :'( i hope you tell me more solutions, please... thanks for your help!! -- Javier Romero Casado tel.913357274 Dep. Comunicaciones CEDEX From wmoran at potentialtech.com Tue Feb 24 11:52:43 2004 From: wmoran at potentialtech.com (Bill Moran) Date: Tue Feb 24 12:01:49 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Potential shortcoming in check_perms Message-ID: <403B815B.50504@potentialtech.com> I'm new to this list. I recently ran into some problems upgrading mailman 2.1.3 to 2.1.4. In the end, it turned out that check_perms thought everything was OK, but it really was a permission problem. The reason check_perms didn't detect it is the problem was with file ownership (something in the FreeBSD port appears to have changed the default user/group for mailman, but that's a seperate issue ...) So, I was wondering what people thought about updating the check_perms script to check file ownerships as well. Is is possible? It sure seems like it would be helpful! -- Bill Moran Potential Technologies http://www.potentialtech.com From bastiaan-postfix-users at welmers.net Tue Feb 24 12:26:35 2004 From: bastiaan-postfix-users at welmers.net (Bastiaan Welmers) Date: Tue Feb 24 12:11:37 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Spam vulnarability due to open public mboxes Message-ID: <20040224172025.M18864@welmers.net> Hi, I found an spam vulnarability in mailman public archives. However (you can choose to) mailaddresses in public archives are spam protected because @ will be replaced in " at " or " op " in both the txt and the html files, in the raw mbox file are still being the unprotected email addresses. I found this bug by change: after I subscribed a brand-new mailaddress to a public-archive list, shortly after that I recieved spam. A google search to this brand-new mail address brought me to the mbox file where it just stays unprotected. My idea to solve this: - if mm_cfg.ARCHIVER_OBSCURES_EMAILADDRS is set (admin wants mail adresses to be secured) then the "fullarch" replacement in archtoc.html won't be the default ../%s.mbox/%s.mbox % listname but mlist.GetScriptUrl("private")/../%s.mbox/%s.mbox % listname This has to be set in Archives/HyperArch.py near line 692 in def htmlTOC. So if list admin wants their archives to be spam-secured, the link to the mbox file will be through the private cgi, thus needs a password. The private CGI program however, if no login-cookie already found, returns a login-form with form-action just the URL to the private list archives, not to the mbox file. Also something to fix. For futher completion: - if mm_cfg.ARCHIVER_OBSCURES_EMAILADDRS is set there won't be made symlinks of the mbox files. This has to be written in Archives/Archiver.py near line 234 in def CheckHTMLArchiveDir. I'm going to write code of it, is it something to post on this mailing list? /Bastiaan From terri at zone12.com Tue Feb 24 12:45:42 2004 From: terri at zone12.com (Terri Oda) Date: Tue Feb 24 12:46:01 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] mailman national support In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <442F9C41-66F1-11D8-8C1E-000D934FBF38@zone12.com> On Feb 13, 2004, at 5:14 AM, Istvan Kollar wrote: > Moreover, the present Hungarian sentences are partly wrong, or > unfinished. > A series of corrections are necessary. Is there anybody who maintains > tese texts? According to http://www.list.org/i18n.html, the current maintainers of the Hungarian translation are Vizi Szilard, Szabolcs Szigeti, and Gabor Funk. Email addresses for two of them can be found on that page, and I'm sure they'd be happy to have some corrections. Terri (PS - Some of us aren't "gentlemen" by gender! I'm used to getting addressed all sorts of ways, and I'm not offended, but sometimes it's annoying to be invisible!) From javier.romero at cedex.es Wed Feb 25 04:31:03 2004 From: javier.romero at cedex.es (javier) Date: Wed Feb 25 04:33:50 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] WORKING!!!! changing PIDFILE = os.path.join(QUEUE_DIR, 'master-qru nner.pid') Message-ID: <403C6B57.2000509@cedex.es> I had to change perms of /DATA when i shared this folder -rwxr-xr-x 1 root other 629 Feb 24 11:14 pending.pck -rwxr-xr-x 1 root other 41 Feb 24 11:14 adm.pw and now moderated lists works fine!!! Today is a beautifull day!!! :-D Thank you very much, Robby (Thank you pilar) OK! i did it! this is my new files and folders : bash-2.03# ls -la total 60 drwxrwsr-x 18 mailman mailman 512 Feb 24 11:22 . drwxr-xr-x 11 root other 512 Feb 19 13:49 .. drwxrwsr-x 11 root mailman 1536 Feb 24 12:04 Mailman lrwxrwxrwx 1 root mailman 26 Jul 3 2003 archives -> /dirarcon/mailman/archives drwxrwsr-x 2 root mailman 1024 Feb 20 09:24 bin drwxrwsr-x 2 root mailman 512 Oct 7 12:23 cgi-bin -rw-r----- 1 root mailman 4133 Oct 22 10:42 config.pck drwxrwsr-x 2 root mailman 512 Oct 7 12:25 cron lrwxrwxrwx 1 root mailman 22 Feb 24 11:22 data -> /dirarcon/mailman/data drwxrwsr-x 2 root mailman 512 Oct 7 12:23 icons lrwxrwxrwx 1 root mailman 23 Jul 3 2003 lists -> /dirarcon/mailman/lists drwxrwsr-x 2 root mailman 512 Feb 24 12:30 locks drwxrwsr-x 2 root mailman 512 Oct 1 08:26 logs drwxrwsr-x 2 root mailman 512 Oct 7 12:23 mail -rw-r----- 1 root mailman 5 Feb 24 11:12 master-qrunner.pid drwxrwsr-x 24 root mailman 512 Oct 7 11:27 messages drwxrwsr-x 2 root mailman 2560 Feb 23 15:37 olddata drwxrwsr-x 6 root mailman 512 Jul 1 2003 pythonlib drwxrwsr-x 11 root mailman 512 Feb 24 12:05 qfiles drwxrwsr-x 2 root mailman 512 Oct 7 12:42 scripts drwxrwsr-x 2 root mailman 512 Jul 1 2003 spam drwxrwsr-x 26 root mailman 512 Oct 7 11:27 templates drwxrwsr-x 4 root mailman 512 Oct 7 12:23 tests and this is my changed mm_cfg.py from Defaults import * ################################################## # Put YOUR site-specific settings below this line DEFAULT_SERVER_LANGUAGE = 'es' MAILMAN_SITE_LIST = 'comunicaciones' DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'cdxweb.cedex.es' DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'cdxweb.cedex.es' PIDFILE = os.path.join(QUEUE_DIR, 'master-qrunner.pid') "mm_cfg.py" 51 lines, 1858 characters so master-qrunner.pid is saved now into /qfiles... maimanctl started fine, but i have same problem!!! moderated members of list send a message to the list and nothing happen!! no "waiting for approval" message to moderated-member or to me (moderator) :'( i hope you tell me more solutions, please... thanks for your help!! -- Javier Romero Casado tel.913357274 Dep. Comunicaciones CEDEX From pioppo at ferrara.linux.it Wed Feb 25 04:37:32 2004 From: pioppo at ferrara.linux.it (Simone Piunno) Date: Wed Feb 25 04:37:40 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] WORKING!!!! changing PIDFILE = os.path.join(QUEUE_DIR, 'master-qru nner.pid') In-Reply-To: <403C6B57.2000509@cedex.es> References: <403C6B57.2000509@cedex.es> Message-ID: <200402251037.32119.pioppo@ferrara.linux.it> How come a space has been inserted between "master-qru" and "nner.pid"? -- This signature intentionally left blank From nick.vdkloor at for-nation.com Wed Feb 25 12:18:33 2004 From: nick.vdkloor at for-nation.com (Nick vd Kloor @ FOR-Nation) Date: Wed Feb 25 12:19:07 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Exporting memberlist Message-ID: <000001c3fbc3$6872e2e0$0501a8c0@serotonica> Hi all, does anyone know if there's a possibility to export your memberlist in a file or for example excelsheet? Or is there a way to display all your members on one page? Thanx in advance, Nick FOR-Nation.com From rmg at terc.edu Wed Feb 25 12:22:14 2004 From: rmg at terc.edu (Robby Griffin) Date: Wed Feb 25 12:22:14 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] WORKING!!!! changing PIDFILE = os.path.join(QUEUE_DIR, 'master-qru nner.pid') In-Reply-To: <200402251037.32119.pioppo@ferrara.linux.it> Message-ID: <271D3F3B-67B7-11D8-BCEC-000A95A0C58E@terc.edu> On Wednesday, Feb 25, 2004, at 04:37 US/Eastern, Simone Piunno wrote: > How come a space has been inserted between "master-qru" and "nner.pid"? For what it's worth, in the off-list copy I received, the subject header was broken into two lines. The second line started with a tab character as continued headers normally do, followed by "nner.pid". There was no space at the end of the first line. --Robby From claw at kanga.nu Wed Feb 25 15:59:33 2004 From: claw at kanga.nu (J C Lawrence) Date: Wed Feb 25 15:59:40 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Exporting memberlist In-Reply-To: Message from "Nick vd Kloor @ FOR-Nation" of "Wed, 25 Feb 2004 18:18:33 +0100." <000001c3fbc3$6872e2e0$0501a8c0@serotonica> References: <000001c3fbc3$6872e2e0$0501a8c0@serotonica> Message-ID: <10032.1077742773@kanga.nu> On Wed, 25 Feb 2004 18:18:33 +0100 Nick vd Kloor <@ FOR-Nation" > wrote: > Hi all, does anyone know if there's a possibility to export your > memberlist in a file or for example excelsheet? ~/bin/list_members. -- J C Lawrence ---------(*) Satan, oscillate my metallic sonatas. claw@kanga.nu He lived as a devil, eh? http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/ Evil is a name of a foeman, as I live. From barry at python.org Wed Feb 25 16:04:50 2004 From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw) Date: Wed Feb 25 16:06:06 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] bug report submitted: admin password is checked when it should not In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1077743086.2083.14.camel@geddy.wooz.org> On Mon, 2004-02-16 at 05:33, Heiko.Scheit@mpi-hd.mpg.de wrote: > For your information: I just submitted the bug report below on > the SF mailman page. > > Greetings, Heiko. > > > admin password is checked when it should > ----------------------------------------- > > To see the problem you have to be the administrator of a > list. Go to the members options login page > > .../mailman/options/ > > and enter something like a valid email address, e.g.: > > xxx@xxx.xxx > > and as password enter the ADMIN password! You will get > something like: > > Bug in Mailman version 2.1.4 This is fixed in CVS for MM2.1.5. > What is worse: if you enter a valid email address (of a > list member) and the admin password you are the admin. > So, any list member that happens to choose the same > password as the admin has full access to the > administrative interface. Yep. Pick your admin passwords wisely . > Somehow I think it would be better to also have an admin > username and not just an admin password. Or, for each > member an admin flag can be set. The admin has to be a > member and can login with email and password as anybody > else. Something like this is the plan for MM3. -Barry From barry at python.org Wed Feb 25 16:07:44 2004 From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw) Date: Wed Feb 25 16:07:48 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] german Umlaute in email adresses -> error message In-Reply-To: <20040218103855.GC32741@sil.at> References: <1069425559.2383.15.camel@anthem> <20040218103855.GC32741@sil.at> Message-ID: <1077743264.2083.18.camel@geddy.wooz.org> On Wed, 2004-02-18 at 05:38, Franz Lax wrote: > hello > as I experince repeated problems with people providing wrong email > adresses (eg. by using german Umlaute as ??? etc.) I would like to > suggest to implement a routine checking for the validity of an email > address entered by the user. Newer versions of MM2.1 should not allow non-ascii characters in email addresses to be subscribed to a list. So this address must have been added in older versions and survived an upgrade. I think I posted a recipe a long while back for finding and removing such bogus addresses. Check the archives or the FAQ. Try searching for remove_members. -Barry From barry at python.org Wed Feb 25 16:10:51 2004 From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw) Date: Wed Feb 25 16:15:56 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] edited archive folder-edits lost when message posts In-Reply-To: <05f401c3f25e$c8f653e0$0e00a8c0@newtech> References: <05f401c3f25e$c8f653e0$0e00a8c0@newtech> Message-ID: <1077743450.2083.21.camel@geddy.wooz.org> On Fri, 2004-02-13 at 13:25, Richard D'Andrea Dover wrote: > I edited the archive index.html folder for my mailing list. I also > edited the date.html and subject.html to have the appearance I > wanted. Everything looked good until there was a post. > > When a post is made to the list all my data is erased and the > archive index.html, date.html, and subject.html went back to > default. > > Why is this? > > How can I change the archive files to look the way I want? You need to modify the templates that are used to generate the indices. For English they'd be in templates/en. -Barry From barry at python.org Wed Feb 25 16:16:41 2004 From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw) Date: Wed Feb 25 16:16:46 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Potential shortcoming in check_perms In-Reply-To: <403B815B.50504@potentialtech.com> References: <403B815B.50504@potentialtech.com> Message-ID: <1077743801.2083.29.camel@geddy.wooz.org> On Tue, 2004-02-24 at 11:52, Bill Moran wrote: > So, I was wondering what people thought about updating the check_perms > script to check file ownerships as well. Is is possible? It sure > seems like it would be helpful! check_perms checks group ownership. Can you provide more detail about what was broken, and specifically what files needed to be checked? -Barry From barry at python.org Wed Feb 25 16:24:01 2004 From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw) Date: Wed Feb 25 16:24:13 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Spam vulnarability due to open public mboxes In-Reply-To: <20040224172025.M18864@welmers.net> References: <20040224172025.M18864@welmers.net> Message-ID: <1077744241.2083.32.camel@geddy.wooz.org> On Tue, 2004-02-24 at 12:26, Bastiaan Welmers wrote: > I found an spam vulnarability in mailman public archives. > However (you can choose to) mailaddresses in public archives are spam > protected because @ will be replaced in " at " or " op " in both the txt > and the html files, in the raw mbox file are still being the unprotected email addresses. > I found this bug by change: after I subscribed a brand-new mailaddress to a > public-archive list, shortly after that I recieved spam. A google search to this brand-new > mail address brought me to the mbox file where it just stays unprotected. Look at the new-in-MM2.1.4 PUBLIC_MBOX variable. This is now set to No by default so as to disable access to the mbox file. I actually think it's rare that people need access to this thing, especially because it can get pretty huge. -Barry From shigeno at iij-mc.co.jp Thu Feb 26 03:00:46 2004 From: shigeno at iij-mc.co.jp (SHIGENO Kazutaka) Date: Thu Feb 26 03:00:59 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Errors.MMHostileAddress Message-ID: <20040226.170046.07269973.shigeno@iij-mc.co.jp> Hi, When creating a list by Mailman-2.1.4, if a user use owner addresses with comma, Errors.MMHostileAddress will occur. ================================================================ admin(21445): [----- Mailman Version: 2.1.4 -----] admin(21445): [----- Traceback ------] admin(21445): Traceback (most recent call last): admin(21445): File "/export/mm/scripts/driver", line 87, in run_main admin(21445): main() admin(21445): File "/export/mm/Mailman/Cgi/create.py", line 55, in main admin(21445): process_request(doc, cgidata) admin(21445): File "/export/mm/Mailman/Cgi/create.py", line 201, in process_request admin(21445): mlist.Create(listname, owner, pw, number, langs, emailhost) admin(21445): File "/export/mm/Mailman/MailList.py", line 462, in Create admin(21445): Utils.ValidateEmail(admin) admin(21445): File "/export/mm/Mailman/Utils.py", line 210, in ValidateEmail admin(21445): raise Errors.MMHostileAddress, s admin(21445): MMHostileAddress: usera@domain,userb@domain ================================================================ How about changing into 'except Errors.EmailAddressError:'? --- bin/newlist 2004/01/23 07:53:00 +++ bin/newlist 2004/02/25 12:44:02 @@ -175,7 +175,7 @@ def main(): os.umask(oldmask) except Errors.BadListNameError, s: usage(1, _('Illegal list name: %(s)s')) - except Errors.MMBadEmailError, s: + except Errors.EmailAddressError, s: usage(1, _('Bad owner email address: %(s)s')) except Errors.MMListAlreadyExistsError: usage(1, _('List already exists: %(listname)s')) --- Mailman/Cgi/create.py 2004/01/09 02:49:02 +++ Mailman/Cgi/create.py 2004/02/25 12:44:02 @@ -201,7 +201,7 @@ def process_request(doc, cgidata): mlist.Create(listname, owner, pw, number, langs, emailhost) finally: os.umask(oldmask) - except Errors.MMBadEmailError, s: + except Errors.EmailAddressError, s: request_creation(doc, cgidata, _('Bad owner email address: %(s)s')) return --- Mailman/MailList.py 2004/02/25 12:35:20 +++ Mailman/MailList.py 2004/02/25 12:44:01 @@ -451,7 +451,7 @@ class MailList(HTMLFormatter, Deliverer, postingaddr = '%s@%s' % (name, emailhost) try: Utils.ValidateEmail(postingaddr) - except Errors.MMBadEmailError: + except Errors.EmailAddressError: raise Errors.BadListNameError, postingaddr # Validate the admin's email address Utils.ValidateEmail(admin) -- shigeno From huw-l at moving-picture.com Thu Feb 26 08:09:56 2004 From: huw-l at moving-picture.com (Huw Lynes) Date: Thu Feb 26 08:10:00 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Uncaught exceptions on corrupt files (mailman 2.1.4) Message-ID: <20040226130956.56e3b5e4.huw-l@moving-picture.com> Hi Guys, Due to running out mailman server on dodgy old hardware with a geriatric version of XFS we are quite often seeing corrupt .db an .pck files. This is Mailman 2.1.4 on Python 2.3.3 This usually results in something like: Jan 06 16:18:11 2004 (1134) Uncaught runner exception: invalid load key, '^@'. Jan 06 16:18:11 2004 (1134) Traceback (most recent call last): File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 105, in _oneloop self._onefile(msg, msgdata) File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 130, in _onefile mlist = self._open_list(listname) File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 175, in _open_list mlist = MailList.MailList(listname, lock=0) File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 124, in __init__ self.Load() File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 583, in Load dict, e = self.__load(file) File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 556, in __load dict = loadfunc(fp) UnpicklingError: invalid load key, '^@'. So looking at MailList.py I see: try: try: dict = loadfunc(fp) if type(dict) <> DictType: return None, 'Load() expected to return a dictionary' except (EOFError, ValueError, TypeError, MemoryError, cPickle.PicklingError), e: return None, e finally: fp.close() # Update timestamp self.__timestamp = mtime return dict, None in the __Load method of MailList Class. that except statement should include cPickle.UnpicklingError? I think the error catching in Runner.py will then print out the name of the list it died on although it would be nice if MailList.py logged the filename it choked on. e.g: try: dict = loadfunc(fp) if type(dict) <> DictType: return None, 'Load() expected to return a dictionary' except (EOFError, ValueError, TypeError, MemoryError, cPickle.PicklingError, cPickle.UnpicklingError), e: syslog('error', 'problem reading file: %s', dbfile) return None, e does that make sense or have I misunderstood something? We see the same sort of thing with corrupt archive pickles. Feb 25 21:16:39 2004 (4537) Uncaught runner exception: bad marshal data Feb 25 21:16:39 2004 (4537) Traceback (most recent call last): File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 110, in _oneloop self._onefile(msg, msgdata) File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 160, in _onefile keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata) File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/ArchRunner.py", line 73, in _dispose mlist.ArchiveMail(msg) File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/Archiver.py", line 215, in ArchiveMa il h.processUnixMailbox(f) File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/pipermail.py", line 569, in processU nixMailbox self.add_article(a) File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/pipermail.py", line 615, in add_arti cle article.parentID = parentID = self.get_parent_info(arch, article) File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/pipermail.py", line 647, in get_pare nt_info article.subject) : File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/HyperDatabase.py", line 311, in getO ldestArticle self.__openIndices(archive) File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/HyperDatabase.py", line 251, in __op enIndices t = DumbBTree(os.path.join(arcdir, archive + '-' + i)) File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/HyperDatabase.py", line 65, in __ini t__ self.load() File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/HyperDatabase.py", line 170, in load self.dict = marshal.load(fp) ValueError: bad marshal data So in HyperDatabase.py the load method of DumbBTree def load(self): try: fp = open(self.path) try: self.dict = marshal.load(fp) finally: fp.close() except IOError, e: if e.errno <> errno.ENOENT: raise pass except EOFError: pass else: self.__sort(dirty=1) Nothing there to catch ValueError: I have to say that I don't understand HyperDatabase.py because it doesn't appear to do anything with exceptions. Can someone enlighten me? I'm going to try the change to MailList.py on a test server at some point over the next week. TIA, Huw -- | Huw Lynes | The Moving Picture Company | | System Administrator | 127 Wardour Street | |.........................| London, W1F 0NL | From barry at python.org Thu Feb 26 23:40:35 2004 From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw) Date: Thu Feb 26 23:40:46 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Mailman 3 development list Message-ID: <1077856834.17639.24.camel@geddy.wooz.org> I've created a list specifically for discussing Mailman 3 design and development. Feel free to subscribe at: http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman3-dev I'd like to keep MM3 discussions off the main mailman-developers list as much as possible. The list will be open and will be run with essentially the same policies as mailman-developers and mailman-users, except that it will reject posts by non-members. Sorry, but I think this will help keep the signal to noise ratio high and it reduces my administrative burden. I want to give the list a few days to get populated and then I'll start posting some issues in preparation for the upcoming sprint at Pycon. -Barry From tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp Fri Feb 27 01:08:21 2004 From: tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp (Tokio Kikuchi) Date: Fri Feb 27 01:08:24 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] AssertionError in 2.1.5a4 Message-ID: <403EDED5.8030501@is.kochi-u.ac.jp> Hi Barry, Here is a report on 2.1.5 alpha. A user hited unsbscribe button on his options page and got this error. Looks like 'assert' is not needed because 'Locked()' locks the list if it is not locked. Bug in Mailman version 2.1.5a4 We're sorry, we hit a bug! If you would like to help us identify the problem, please email a copy of this page to the webmaster for this site with a description of what happened. Thanks! Traceback: Traceback (most recent call last): File "/usr/local/mailman/scripts/driver", line 87, in run_main main() File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/options.py", line 179, in main mlist.ConfirmUnsubscription(user, userlang) File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 1215, in ConfirmUnsubscription cookie = self.pend_new(Pending.UNSUBSCRIPTION, addr) File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Pending.py", line 63, in pend_new assert self.Locked() AssertionError -- Tokio Kikuchi, tkikuchi@ is.kochi-u.ac.jp http://weather.is.kochi-u.ac.jp/ From wmoran at potentialtech.com Fri Feb 27 10:07:57 2004 From: wmoran at potentialtech.com (Bill Moran) Date: Fri Feb 27 10:08:05 2004 Subject: [Fwd: Fwd: Re: [Mailman-Developers] Potential shortcoming in check_perms] Message-ID: <403F5D4D.3020704@potentialtech.com> Well, for some reason, I never got this reply, so I apologize for the slow response. >X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 >Subject: Re: [Mailman-Developers] Potential shortcoming in check_perms >From: Barry Warsaw >To: Bill Moran >Organization: Damned Crazy Followers of the Horns >X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.5 >Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 16:16:41 -0500 >Cc: mailman-developers@python.org >X-BeenThere: mailman-developers@python.org >X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.4 >List-Id: GNU Mailman developers >List-Unsubscribe: >, > >List-Archive: >List-Post: >List-Help: >List-Subscribe: , > >Sender: mailman-developers-bounces+web=3dresearch.com@python.org >X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p5 (Debian) at 3dresearch.com >X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.61 (1.212.2.1-2003-12-09-exp) on > dorabella.3dresearch.com >X-Spam-Level: >X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-4.9 required=8.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=ham > version=2.61 >X-Sanitizer: 3D RESEARCH Anomy mail filter > >On Tue, 2004-02-24 at 11:52, Bill Moran wrote: > > > So, I was wondering what people thought about updating the check_perms > > script to check file ownerships as well. Is is possible? It sure > > seems like it would be helpful! > >check_perms checks group ownership. Can you provide more detail about >what was broken, and specifically what files needed to be checked? Unfortunately, I don't know. It was one of those situations where a production list server was offline and multiple people were working on it. I do know, for a fact, that at one point check_perms was saying that everything was OK, and yet we could not access the list archives. I know that's almost no help at all, but file it away in case it seems to happen again with someone who's capable of getting you useful details. The symptoms were, specifically, that when accessing the list archives, all links linked to the same message. I'm going to try to do some post-chaos investigation on the problem next week. If I find anything of use about what went wrong and why, I'll pass it on. I apologize for complaining without having enough details to helpful. -- Bill Moran Potential Technologies http://www.potentialtech.com From barry at python.org Sun Feb 29 11:52:27 2004 From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw) Date: Sun Feb 29 12:06:28 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] AssertionError in 2.1.5a4 In-Reply-To: <403EDED5.8030501@is.kochi-u.ac.jp> References: <403EDED5.8030501@is.kochi-u.ac.jp> Message-ID: <1078073547.22205.34.camel@anthem.wooz.org> On Fri, 2004-02-27 at 01:08, Tokio Kikuchi wrote: > A user hited unsbscribe button on his options page and got this error. > Looks like 'assert' is not needed because 'Locked()' locks the list > if it is not locked. Fixed in CVS. -Barry From barry at python.org Sun Feb 29 12:07:50 2004 From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw) Date: Sun Feb 29 12:14:36 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Uncaught exceptions on corrupt files (mailman 2.1.4) In-Reply-To: <20040226130956.56e3b5e4.huw-l@moving-picture.com> References: <20040226130956.56e3b5e4.huw-l@moving-picture.com> Message-ID: <1078074469.22205.40.camel@anthem.wooz.org> On Thu, 2004-02-26 at 08:09, Huw Lynes wrote: > Hi Guys, > > Due to running out mailman server on dodgy old hardware with a geriatric > version of XFS we are quite often seeing corrupt .db an .pck files. > This is Mailman 2.1.4 on Python 2.3.3 > that except statement should include cPickle.UnpicklingError? Yep, I added that in cvs. Note that the Load() method should already log the file that couldn't be loaded, which you should see once that exception is also caught. Side note: You might want to turn on SYNC_AFTER_WRITE. > So in HyperDatabase.py the load method of DumbBTree > > def load(self): > try: > fp = open(self.path) > try: > self.dict = marshal.load(fp) > finally: > fp.close() > except IOError, e: > if e.errno <> errno.ENOENT: raise > pass > except EOFError: > pass > else: > self.__sort(dirty=1) > > Nothing there to catch ValueError: > > I have to say that I don't understand HyperDatabase.py because it doesn't > appear to do anything with exceptions. I haven't checked this one in, but you should try adding that exception clause and see if it fixes your problem. But you're right that HyperDatabase.py might need other fixes, which I don't have time for right now. -Barry From barry at python.org Sun Feb 29 12:17:39 2004 From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw) Date: Sun Feb 29 12:17:45 2004 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Errors.MMHostileAddress In-Reply-To: <20040226.170046.07269973.shigeno@iij-mc.co.jp> References: <20040226.170046.07269973.shigeno@iij-mc.co.jp> Message-ID: <1078075058.22205.47.camel@anthem.wooz.org> On Thu, 2004-02-26 at 03:00, SHIGENO Kazutaka wrote: > Hi, > > When creating a list by Mailman-2.1.4, > if a user use owner addresses with comma, > Errors.MMHostileAddress will occur. Only if there's no space before or after the comma. > How about changing into 'except Errors.EmailAddressError:'? Exactly right! > --- Mailman/MailList.py 2004/02/25 12:35:20 > +++ Mailman/MailList.py 2004/02/25 12:44:01 > @@ -451,7 +451,7 @@ class MailList(HTMLFormatter, Deliverer, > postingaddr = '%s@%s' % (name, emailhost) > try: > Utils.ValidateEmail(postingaddr) > - except Errors.MMBadEmailError: > + except Errors.EmailAddressError: > raise Errors.BadListNameError, postingaddr > # Validate the admin's email address > Utils.ValidateEmail(admin) I don't think we need to do this one because EmailAddressError is the base class of MMBadEmailError so the fixed except clauses will catch MMBadEmailError too. Thanks! -Barry From barry at python.org Sun Feb 29 11:54:39 2004 From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw) Date: Sun Feb 29 12:18:39 2004 Subject: [Fwd: Fwd: Re: [Mailman-Developers] Potential shortcoming in check_perms] In-Reply-To: <403F5D4D.3020704@potentialtech.com> References: <403F5D4D.3020704@potentialtech.com> Message-ID: <1078073678.22205.36.camel@anthem.wooz.org> On Fri, 2004-02-27 at 10:07, Bill Moran wrote: > I do know, for a fact, that at one point check_perms was saying that > everything was OK, and yet we could not access the list archives. I > know that's almost no help at all, but file it away in case it seems > to happen again with someone who's capable of getting you useful > details. The symptoms were, specifically, that when accessing the > list archives, all links linked to the same message. > > I'm going to try to do some post-chaos investigation on the problem > next week. If I find anything of use about what went wrong and why, > I'll pass it on. > > I apologize for complaining without having enough details to helpful. No problem, thanks for the response. I'll keep an eye out and do let me know if you get any more information. -Barry