[Mailman-Developers] Re: Cute TMDA use

[Chuq Von Rospach]

On 7/26/02 7:10 PM, "J C Lawrence" <claw@kanga.nu> wrote:

>> You know, I was kinda noodling in that direction, but I hadn't figured
>> THIS out. Whoof.
> 
> Quite nice isn't it.  It effectively abstracts the concepts of getting
> mail from being able to send mail.

Yes, it also change the paradigm of the subscription to meet the
multi-protocol reality we have today.

I've got two reasons why this made me sit up and take notice.

First, most of us are running lists with increasingly complex distribution
systems. JC has built some nice (and complex) ways to allow reading and
posting off the web. We have search engines returning messages, we have
people who own 35 email addresses and can't for the life of them remember
passwords to 6, much less which is subscribed to what. Some of us gateway
into NNTP, and not all users think to follow up. They reply instead, so it
hits the admin queue. And the admin has to figure out what's postable and
what isn't. Many of us admins "solve" this by simply saying "if you ain't on
the list, you ain't getting in". Which leads to....

Second, Barry, remember when you had to turn mailman-users into subscriber
only? How you hated doing it, but the spammers made it necessary? (as the
guy who runs the queue of mailman-users every couple of days, it hasn't
gotten any better. Ugh). But that builds delays into those postings, which
isn't good. But as the spammers have gotten more aggressive and better at
sneaking past the gates, we've had to build bigger gates with nastier barbed
wire. I've grown more and more worried that mailing lists were turning into
armed camps, or gated communities. Or little paranoid balls of bodies
unwilling to look out the peephole when someone rings the bell. Is that
really what we wanted when we got involved with running lists?

I've been increasingly uncomfortable with the "gaza strip" aspect of running
lists. This seems to me a great way to open those gates a bit -- safely. And
build in some understanding that not everyone who's "subscribed" is in the
subscriber lists. You have the archives, and the gateways, and the extended
populations that are effectively disenfranchised from posting today. This
builds a system that re-enfranchises them with minimal hassle and minimal
risk of opening the door to the bad guys.

I think it's a great hack to get back to what we WANT lists to act like, not
what we've been slowly forced to turn them into.


-- 
Chuq Von Rospach, Architech
chuqui@plaidworks.com -- http://www.chuqui.com/

IMHO: Jargon. Acronym for In My Humble Opinion. Used to flag as an opinion
something that is clearly from context an opinion to everyone except the
mentally dense. Opinions flagged by IMHO are actually rarely humble. IMHO.
    (source: third unabridged dictionary of chuqui-isms).