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Message-ID: <20011101144036.T2885@mrbill.net> I'm moving my stuff to a newer/faster machine in a few days; is there a better "approved and recommended" way to transfer entire lists, configs, and archives over to the new machine other than just tarballing up the entire Mailman directory and FTPing it over? E.g., can I reinstall Python and MailMan on the new machine, and only move certain directories? Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill@mrbill.net Austin, TX From jarrell@vt.edu Thu Nov 1 21:28:52 2001 From: jarrell@vt.edu (Ron Jarrell) Date: Thu, 01 Nov 2001 16:28:52 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Official way to "move" lists? In-Reply-To: <20011101144036.T2885@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20011101162817.049b9060@lennier.cc.vt.edu> At 02:40 PM 11/1/01 -0600, you wrote: >I'm moving my stuff to a newer/faster machine in a few days; is there >a better "approved and recommended" way to transfer entire lists, configs, >and archives over to the new machine other than just tarballing up the >entire Mailman directory and FTPing it over? E.g., can I reinstall Python >and MailMan on the new machine, and only move certain directories? If your paths are going to be the same, you can just tarball up and move the lists and archives directories (assuming you don't care about the old logs). From bob@nleaudio.com Fri Nov 2 06:44:24 2001 From: bob@nleaudio.com (Bob Puff@NLE) Date: Fri, 02 Nov 2001 01:44:24 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] "Digester lucked out" in bounce Message-ID: <3BE240C8.A13A05E6@nleaudio.com> What exactly does this mean in the logs/bounce file? I see this a lot. I would have assumed that it meant an address that was bouncing now seems to work. The only problem is that Mailman isn't tied into the MTA's logs to know if the message really was delivered properly.. for all it knows, a bounce could be on the way! Bob From Markus.Jansen@pac.ericsson.se Fri Nov 2 13:43:39 2001 From: Markus.Jansen@pac.ericsson.se (Markus Jansen (PAC)) Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2001 14:43:39 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Web Authenticfication for mailing list members outside Mailman? Message-ID: <714FEAB3880CD41183B40008C791A94703B8C7F5@ESEALNT447.al.sw.ericsson.se> Hi, I am currently running both a web site and two majordomo lists. I would like to migrate to mailman, and at the same time make parts of the Web site (Apache 1.3, Solaris) accessible only for members of = one or more mailing lists (you may see them as user groups). Is there a way to reuse Mailman cookies outside the Mailman pages, or = to place these pages in a way that they are handled though Mailman security? An additional minus on my site is that I don't have experience with = Python (yet), I am just a Perl geek :-(. Any ideas are highly appreciated ... Best regards, Markus Jansen -- Markus Jansen Markus.Jansen@ericsson.com Senior Designer, Technical Coordinator Ericsson Process & Application Consulting TTM Solutions / CM Tools VH/PAC/L/TD Phone +46 8 568 61560 V=E4stberga All=E9 36A Mobile +46 70 526 = 2548 12582 Stockholm, Sweden Fax +46 8 568 61888 From andyheath2@lineone.net Fri Nov 2 14:06:27 2001 From: andyheath2@lineone.net (Andy Heath) Date: Fri, 02 Nov 2001 14:06:27 +0000 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Web Authenticfication for mailing list members outside Mailman? References: <714FEAB3880CD41183B40008C791A94703B8C7F5@ESEALNT447.al.sw.ericsson.se> Message-ID: <3BE2A863.B24B317A@lineone.net> Well, in the absence of universal support for LDAP or similar this is a good solution and one I currently do my self with Zope and lists. One way to do this is to use something external to mailman to extract the id's and and encrypt the passwords and put it on a crontab to generate the .htaccess files. A better approach would be a generic way to interface with mailman and I *believe* 2.1 mailman supports a much better (essentially pluggable if you're a programmer) security architecture - but, its not out there in a stable well- documented way that a non-pythoneer can pick up and modify yet so meanwhile doing it completely externally will save effort (not worth hacking 2.0.x when 2.1 is on the way). Happy to mail you the script I use if it helps - its not orginal - in fact its in a patch (badly named) on sourceforge. The solution works well for me (though with Zope, not apache). Hope this helps andy > I am currently running both a web site and two majordomo lists. > I would like to migrate to mailman, and at the same time make parts > of the Web site (Apache 1.3, Solaris) accessible only for members of one or more mailing lists > (you may see them as user groups). > Is there a way to reuse Mailman cookies outside the Mailman pages, or to place these pages > in a way that they are handled though Mailman security? > > An additional minus on my site is that I don't have experience with Python (yet), > I am just a Perl geek :-(. > > Any ideas are highly appreciated ... > > Best regards, > > Markus Jansen > > -- > Markus Jansen Markus.Jansen@ericsson.com > Senior Designer, Technical Coordinator > Ericsson Process & Application Consulting > TTM Solutions / CM Tools VH/PAC/L/TD Phone +46 8 568 61560 > Västberga Allé 36A Mobile +46 70 526 2548 > 12582 Stockholm, Sweden Fax +46 8 568 61888 > > _______________________________________________ > Mailman-Developers mailing list > Mailman-Developers@python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers -- andy ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Andy Heath, Sheffield Hallam University participating in Ctr for Educ Tech Interoperability Stds +44 (0)114 2885738 a.k.heath@shu.ac.uk From claw@2wire.com Fri Nov 2 18:57:18 2001 From: claw@2wire.com (J C Lawrence) Date: Fri, 02 Nov 2001 10:57:18 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Re: [Mailman-Users] why can't people see my lists? In-Reply-To: Message from James Watson of "Fri, 02 Nov 2001 13:36:37 EST." <20011102133637.C31039@exodus.futuristech.net> References: <200111012222.OAA21373@utopia.West.Sun.COM> <20011102082001.A31039@exodus.futuristech.net> <12263.1004725408@2wire.com> <20011102133637.C31039@exodus.futuristech.net> Message-ID: <12463.1004727438@2wire.com> On Fri, 2 Nov 2001 13:36:37 -0500 James Watson wrote: > On Fri, Nov 02, 2001 at 10:23:28AM -0800, J C Lawrence wrote: >> Hostnames are explicitly case insensitive. Mailman flattens the >> strings prior to comparison. Example: >> >> https://www.kanga.nu/lists/listinfo/ >> https://WwW.Kanga.Nu/lists/listinfo/ > Your browser must do the flattening. With Mozilla, the above two > urls both work for me. However, with Netscape 4.77, I get the "no > advertised lists" message when using the second url. Urk. This is bad, a bug, and needs to be fixed for 2.1. -- J C Lawrence ---------(*) Satan, oscillate my metallic sonatas. claw@kanga.nu He lived as a devil, eh? http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/ Evil is a name of a foeman, as I live. From barry@zope.com Fri Nov 2 23:50:37 2001 From: barry@zope.com (Barry A. Warsaw) Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2001 18:50:37 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Re: [Mailman-Users] why can't people see my lists? References: <200111012222.OAA21373@utopia.West.Sun.COM> <20011102082001.A31039@exodus.futuristech.net> <12263.1004725408@2wire.com> <20011102133637.C31039@exodus.futuristech.net> <12463.1004727438@2wire.com> Message-ID: <15331.12621.703529.26344@anthem.wooz.org> >>>>> "JCL" == J C Lawrence writes: JCL> Urk. Indeed! Looks like Mozilla flattens the hostname case but Lynx does not (convenient for testing! :). JCL> This is bad, a bug, and needs to be fixed for 2.1. Fixed it is. I'll simply fold to lowercase the hostname sucked out of the cgi environment before doing the checks. Thanks for forwarding this to me. -Barry From bob@nleaudio.com Sat Nov 3 08:20:50 2001 From: bob@nleaudio.com (Bob Puff@NLE) Date: Sat, 03 Nov 2001 03:20:50 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Bounce detection Message-ID: <3BE3A8E2.CCA89F1E@nleaudio.com> Hi Gang, Just got another 40+ bounces that the 2.0.6 bounce handlers didn't pick up... There was nothing in the logs during the time I got some of the bounces, yet it does pick up on others. I suspect it's a simple string matching issue. Looked in Mailman/Bouncers, but I don't immediately see the method or order of what modules are run. What is the first module called? Barry? Bob From liuk@publinet.it Sat Nov 3 17:01:25 2001 From: liuk@publinet.it (Luca Maranzano) Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2001 18:01:25 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Password reminder via Web for non subscribed address hits a bug Message-ID: <20011103180125.A1752@publinet.it> Hello all, I've upgraded to latest CVS this morning, and I've found the following problem: accessing via web to http://my.server.com/mailman/options/LISTNAME and inserting an email address which is *not* subscribed to LISTNAME and then pressing on the "Remind" button generates the following error: Traceback: Traceback (most recent call last): File "/home/mailman/scripts/driver", line 96, in run_main main() File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/options.py", line 145, in main mlist.MailUserPassword(user) File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Deliverer.py", line 85, in MailUserPassword assert self.isMember(user) AssertionError: May be a check to verify if the email is subscribed is missing? Regards, luca PS: may be we are almost ready for 2.1a4 or the first beta? Barry? :) From bob@nleaudio.com Sun Nov 4 08:19:02 2001 From: bob@nleaudio.com (Bob Puff@NLE) Date: Sun, 04 Nov 2001 03:19:02 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Bounce error hangs Mailman Message-ID: <3BE4F9F6.14AB5C4D@nleaudio.com> I just discovered a show-stopper for Mailman 2.0.6: A user on one of my lists suddenly started bouncing messages. The bounce causes qrunner to die when it gets to that message, and stops processing files after that. Here's the python errors: Nov 04 02:56:01 2001 qrunner(2605): Traceback (most recent call last): Nov 04 02:56:01 2001 qrunner(2605): File "/home/csc/mailman/cron/qrunner", line 282, in ? Nov 04 02:56:01 2001 qrunner(2605): kids = main(lock) Nov 04 02:56:01 2001 qrunner(2605): File "/home/csc/mailman/cron/qrunner", line 252, in main Nov 04 02:56:01 2001 qrunner(2605): keepqueued = dispose_message(mlist, msg, msgdata) Nov 04 02:56:01 2001 qrunner(2605): File "/home/csc/mailman/cron/qrunner", line 121, in dispose_message Nov 04 02:56:01 2001 qrunner(2605): if BouncerAPI.ScanMessages(mlist, mimemsg): Nov 04 02:56:01 2001 qrunner(2605): File "/home/csc/mailman/Mailman/Bouncers/BouncerAPI.py", line 59, in ScanMessages Nov 04 02:56:01 2001 qrunner(2605): addrs = func(msg) Nov 04 02:56:01 2001 qrunner(2605): File "/home/csc/mailman/Mailman/Bouncers/DSN.py", line 46, in process Nov 04 02:56:01 2001 qrunner(2605): if string.lower(msg.gettype()) <> 'multipart/report' or \ Nov 04 02:56:01 2001 qrunner(2605): File "/usr/local/lib/python2.2/string.py", line 54, in lower Nov 04 02:56:01 2001 qrunner(2605): return s.lower() Nov 04 02:56:01 2001 qrunner(2605): AttributeError : 'NoneType' object has no attribute 'lower' And here's an example of a bounce coming from the offending user: Received: by main.nlenet.net (mbox bob) (with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.31 1998/05/13) Sun Nov 4 02:46:01 2001) X-From_: postmaster@btconnect.com Sun Nov 4 02:45:50 2001 >From bob Sun Nov 4 02:45:50 2001 Return-Path: Delivered-To: bob@nlenet.net Received: from c2bapps1.btconnect.com (c2bapps1.btconnect.com [193.113.209.21]) by main.nlenet.net (Postfix) with SMTP id ED8D113D126 for ; Sun, 4 Nov 2001 02:45:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from btconnect.com by c2bapps1.btconnect.com id ; Sun, 4 Nov 2001 07:45:32 +0000 Message-Type: Delivery Report X400-Received: by /ADMD= /C=WW/; Relayed; Sun, 4 Nov 2001 07:45:31 +0000 X400-Received: by mta c2bapps1-hme1 in /ADMD= /C=WW/; Relayed; Sun, 4 Nov 2001 07:45:31 +0000 X400-MTS-Identifier: [/ADMD= /C=WW/;c2bapps1.b:026710:20011104074531] From: postmaster@btconnect.com To: bob@nleaudio.com Subject: Delivery Report (failure) for pr@allen-heath.com Date: Sun, 4 Nov 2001 07:45:32 +0000 Message-ID: <"c2bapps1.b:026710:20011104074531"@btconnect.com> Content-Identifier: test MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/report; boundary="---Multi-Part-Report-Level-1-1-2672" X-Mozilla-Status: 8001 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-UIDL: 34456246710d0000 -----Multi-Part-Report-Level-1-1-2672 This report relates to your message: Subject: test, Message-ID: <3BE4F1EC.8306C281@nleaudio.com>, To: pr@allen-heath.com of Sun, 4 Nov 2001 07:45:31 +0000 Your message was not delivered to: pr@allen-heath.com for the following reason: Diagnostic was Unable to transfer, -1 Information MTA '62.6.150.133' gives error message 5.7.1 Unable to relay for pr@allen-heath.com The Original Message follows: -----Multi-Part-Report-Level-1-1-2672 Content-Type: message/delivery-status Reporting-MTA: x400; mta c2bapps1-hme1 in /ADMD= /C=WW/ Arrival-Date: Sun, 4 Nov 2001 07:45:00 +0000 DSN-Gateway: dns; c2bapps1.btconnect.com X400-Conversion-Date: Sun, 4 Nov 2001 07:45:32 +0000 Original-Envelope-Id: [/ADMD= /C=WW/;<3BE4F1EC.8306C281@nleaudio.com>] X400-Content-Identifier: test X400-Encoded-Info: ia5-text X400-Content-Correlator: Subject: test, Message-ID: <3BE4F1EC.8306C281@nleaudio.com>, To: pr@allen-heath.com Original-Recipient: rfc822; pr@allen-heath.com Final-Recipient: x400; /RFC-822=pr(a)allen-heath.com/ADMD= /C=WW/ X400-Originally-Specified-Recipient-Number: 1 Action: failed Diagnostic-Code: Reason 1 (Unable-To-Transfer); Diagnostic -1 (Unknown) Status: 5.0.0 X400-Supplementary-Info: "MTA '62.6.150.133' gives error message 5.7.1 Unable to relay for pr(a)allen-heath.com" X400-Last-Trace: Sun, 4 Nov 2001 07:45:00 +0000 -----Multi-Part-Report-Level-1-1-2672 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Received: from ns.nlenet.net by c2bapps1 with SMTP (XT-PP); Sun, 4 Nov 2001 07:45:00 +0000 Received: from nleaudio.com (66-133-142-213.roc.frontiernet.net [66.133.142.213]) by ns.nlenet.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id E354A770C for ; Sun, 4 Nov 2001 02:44:57 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3BE4F1EC.8306C281@nleaudio.com> Date: Sun, 04 Nov 2001 02:44:44 -0500 From: "Bob Puff@NLE" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.78 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: pr@allen-heath.com Subject: test Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit test, please disregard. -----Multi-Part-Report-Level-1-1-2672-- This was a bomb that kept me up till the wee hours tracing down. I looked through the bug reports, found something similar, but there was no fix! Yikes! This needs fixing asap! Bob From bob@nleaudio.com Sun Nov 4 08:47:17 2001 From: bob@nleaudio.com (Bob Puff@NLE) Date: Sun, 04 Nov 2001 03:47:17 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] My "fix" for the bounce error Message-ID: <3BE50095.D96E72F5@nleaudio.com> Here's what I came up with, after reading both the messages on sourceforge and looking at the code: def process(msg): if string.lower(msg.gettype()) <> 'multipart/report': # then return None if msg.getparam('report-type') == None: # then return None if string.lower(msg.getparam('report-type')) <> 'delivery-status': # then return None boundary = msg.getparam('boundary') msg.fp.seek(0) (This is in /Mailman/Bouncers/DSN.py) This keeps the message from clogging up Mailman, but it still doesn't handle the bounce properly. I've been getting HUNDREDS of bounces in my mailbox from this one list... Barry, are there any updates available for 2.0.6 to fix this? Bob From bob@nleaudio.com Mon Nov 5 05:31:35 2001 From: bob@nleaudio.com (Bob Puff@NLE) Date: Mon, 05 Nov 2001 00:31:35 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Fix for Postfix bounces Message-ID: <3BE62437.E4DA71CC@nleaudio.com> I just did some more digging (after seeing no replies to my messages here), and found this: My Postfix (022801) returns "multipart/report", not "multipart/mixed" that the bounce handlers were looking for. So in fixing this, as well as bringing in some of the code from 2.1, here is the patch I applied to my Mailman/Bouncers/Postfix.py file for 2.0.6: [root@list Bouncers]# diff Postfix.py.orig Postfix.py 30c30 < if msg.gettype() <> 'multipart/mixed': --- > if msg.gettype() <> 'multipart/report' and msg.gettype() <> 'multipart/mixed': 62c62 < pcre = re.compile(r'\t\t\tthe postfix program$', re.IGNORECASE) --- > pcre = re.compile(r'\t\t\tthe\s(bns)?\s*(postfix|keftamail)', re.IGNORECASE) Does this look ok? Bob From db@bibsys.no Mon Nov 5 17:01:27 2001 From: db@bibsys.no (Daniel Buchmann) Date: Mon, 05 Nov 2001 18:01:27 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] (Current CVS version) cron/mailpasswds and edit HTML errors Message-ID: <3BE6C5E7.3918B714@bibsys.no> error in cron/mailpasswds: [mailman@testbox ~]$ cron/mailpasswds Traceback (most recent call last): File "cron/mailpasswds", line 173, in ? main() File "cron/mailpasswds", line 82, in main sitelist = MailList.MailList(mm_cfg.MAILMAN_SITE_LIST, lock=0) File "/home/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 100, in __init__ self.Load() File "/home/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 496, in Load raise Errors.MMUnknownListError Mailman.Errors.MMUnknownListError Error when editing HTML through the web interface (after creating a new list): Traceback (most recent call last): File "/home/mailman/scripts/driver", line 96, in run_main main() File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/edithtml.py", line 118, in main ChangeHTML(mlist, cgidata, template_name, doc) File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/edithtml.py", line 155, in ChangeHTML template_name), 'w') IOError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory: '/home/mailman/lists/testliste/no/listinfo.html' ...because the language directory does not exist. After creating this directory (/home/mailman/lists/testliste/no) with the usual 02775 permissions, the editing works fine. -Daniel, Norwegian translator. From liuk@publinet.it Mon Nov 5 18:34:06 2001 From: liuk@publinet.it (Luca Maranzano) Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001 19:34:06 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] (Current CVS version) cron/mailpasswds and edit HTML errors In-Reply-To: <3BE6C5E7.3918B714@bibsys.no> References: <3BE6C5E7.3918B714@bibsys.no> Message-ID: <20011105193406.A18620@publinet.it> On Mon, Nov 05, 2001 at 06:01:27PM +0100, Daniel Buchmann wrote: > error in cron/mailpasswds: > > [mailman@testbox ~]$ cron/mailpasswds > Traceback (most recent call last): > File "cron/mailpasswds", line 173, in ? > main() > File "cron/mailpasswds", line 82, in main > sitelist = MailList.MailList(mm_cfg.MAILMAN_SITE_LIST, lock=0) > File "/home/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 100, in __init__ > self.Load() > File "/home/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 496, in Load > raise Errors.MMUnknownListError > Mailman.Errors.MMUnknownListError You haven't created the list "mailman" as stated in the INSTALL, this list is used as the from address for sending out password reminder. [snip from INSTALL] - Create a "site-wide" mailing list. This is the one that password reminders will appear to come from. Usually this should be the "mailman" mailing list, but if you need to change this, be sure to change the MAILMAN_SITE_LIST variable in mm_cfg.py (see below). % bin/newlist mailman - You should then subscribe yourself to the mailman list. This should solve your problem :) Regards, Luca From barry@zope.com Mon Nov 5 23:28:11 2001 From: barry@zope.com (Barry A. Warsaw) Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001 18:28:11 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] (Current CVS version) cron/mailpasswds and edit HTML errors References: <3BE6C5E7.3918B714@bibsys.no> Message-ID: <15335.8331.144785.408166@anthem.wooz.org> >>>>> "DB" == Daniel Buchmann writes: DB> error in cron/mailpasswds: Luca rightly points out that the MAILMAN_SITE_LIST isn't created, however mailpasswds could be a little nicer in its error messages. Now it prints a message to logs/error, and to stderr, and exits with a non-zero value, so cron should mail a notification. DB> Error when editing HTML through the web interface (after DB> creating a new list): DB> ...because the language directory does not exist. After DB> creating this directory (/home/mailman/lists/testliste/no) DB> with the usual 02775 permissions, the editing works fine. Good catch. Fixed. Thanks, -Barry From doko@cs.tu-berlin.de Mon Nov 5 23:37:06 2001 From: doko@cs.tu-berlin.de (Matthias Klose) Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 00:37:06 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] mailman & roxen 1.3 webserver Message-ID: <15335.8866.487710.273570@gargle.gargle.HOWL> With CVS 20011105 and roxen 1.3 I get trying to open the "Membership-Management" tab (all other admin-tabs work fine): Bug in Mailman version 2.1a3+ We're sorry, we hit a bug! If you would like to help us identify the problem, please email a copy of this page to the webmaster for this site with a description of what happened. Thanks! Traceback: Traceback (most recent call last): File "/var/lib/mailman/scripts/driver", line 96, in run_main main() File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/admin.py", line 184, in main show_results(mlist, doc, category, subcat, cgidata) File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/admin.py", line 471, in show_results form.AddItem(membership_options(mlist, subcat, cgidata, doc, form)) File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/admin.py", line 796, in membership_options qs = cgi.parse_qs(os.environ['QUERY_STRING']) File "/usr/lib/python2.1/UserDict.py", line 14, in __getitem__ def __getitem__(self, key): return self.data[key] KeyError: QUERY_STRING Python 2.1.1 SERVER_SOFTWARE Roxen Challenger/1.3.122-20 As a "plus", german umlauts aren't correctly displayed. But this may be a roxen problem as well ... From barry@zope.com Tue Nov 6 00:29:19 2001 From: barry@zope.com (Barry A. Warsaw) Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001 19:29:19 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Password reminder via Web for non subscribed address hits a bug References: <20011103180125.A1752@publinet.it> Message-ID: <15335.11999.119692.679032@anthem.wooz.org> >>>>> "LM" == Luca Maranzano writes: LM> I've upgraded to latest CVS this morning, and I've found the LM> following problem: LM> accessing via web to LM> http://my.server.com/mailman/options/LISTNAME and inserting an LM> email address which is *not* subscribed to LISTNAME and then LM> pressing on the "Remind" button generates the following error: LM> May be a check to verify if the email is subscribed is LM> missing? Also, you must have private rosters set. I believe I've fixed this now in cvs. LM> PS: may be we are almost ready for 2.1a4 or the first beta? LM> Barry? :) Yes, I think so, for another alpha. I want to get one or two more small features in before I go beta, but soon! Thanks, -Barry From barry@zope.com Tue Nov 6 00:37:34 2001 From: barry@zope.com (Barry A. Warsaw) Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001 19:37:34 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Bounce detection References: <3BE3A8E2.CCA89F1E@nleaudio.com> Message-ID: <15335.12494.382721.120375@anthem.wooz.org> >>>>> "B" == Bob writes: B> Just got another 40+ bounces that the 2.0.6 bounce handlers B> didn't pick up... There was nothing in the logs during the time B> I got some of the bounces, yet it does pick up on others. B> I suspect it's a simple string matching issue. Looked in B> Mailman/Bouncers, but I don't immediately see the method or B> order of what modules are run. What is the first module B> called? Barry? Check out BouncerAPI.py, in the ScanMessages() function. You should see the pipeline local variable which contains the list -- in order -- of the bounce detectors that are run. BTW, when running BouncerAPI.py as a script, it provides a very crude form of bouncer testing. Run it from the installed location and give it a list of message files to scan. It'll tell you what addresses it was able to pick out, and which detector did the match. -Barry From barry@zope.com Tue Nov 6 00:47:43 2001 From: barry@zope.com (Barry A. Warsaw) Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001 19:47:43 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Bounce error hangs Mailman References: <3BE4F9F6.14AB5C4D@nleaudio.com> Message-ID: <15335.13103.672016.75549@anthem.wooz.org> Here's a patch to at least avoid the traceback. I'm heading out in a few minutes, but I'll try to put together a real patch when I get back. This, plus the bogus cookie value DoS warrant a 2.0.7 release. -Barry -------------------- snip snip -------------------- Index: DSN.py =================================================================== RCS file: /cvsroot/mailman/mailman/Mailman/Bouncers/DSN.py,v retrieving revision 1.7.2.1 diff -u -r1.7.2.1 DSN.py --- DSN.py 2001/07/25 18:04:42 1.7.2.1 +++ DSN.py 2001/11/06 00:46:32 @@ -43,8 +43,10 @@ def process(msg): - if string.lower(msg.gettype()) <> 'multipart/report' or \ - string.lower(msg.getparam('report-type')) <> 'delivery-status': + ctype = msg.gettype() + param = msg.getparam('report-type') or '' + if string.lower(ctype) <> 'multipart/report' or \ + string.lower(param) <> 'delivery-status': # then return None boundary = msg.getparam('boundary') From barry@zope.com Tue Nov 6 04:45:55 2001 From: barry@zope.com (Barry A. Warsaw) Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001 23:45:55 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Re: My "fix" for the bounce error References: <3BE50095.D96E72F5@nleaudio.com> Message-ID: <15335.27395.963084.864176@anthem.wooz.org> >>>>> "B" == Bob writes: B> I've been getting HUNDREDS of bounces in my mailbox from this B> one list... Barry, are there any updates available for 2.0.6 to B> fix this? I'm nearly certain there will be a 2.0.7 which will contain the fix. Possibly tomorrow. -Barry From barry@zope.com Tue Nov 6 04:49:34 2001 From: barry@zope.com (Barry A. Warsaw) Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001 23:49:34 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Fix for Postfix bounces References: <3BE62437.E4DA71CC@nleaudio.com> Message-ID: <15335.27614.614716.703787@anthem.wooz.org> >>>>> "B" == Bob writes: B> I just did some more digging (after seeing no replies to my B> messages here), and found this: B> My Postfix (022801) returns "multipart/report", not B> "multipart/mixed" that the bounce handlers were looking for. B> So in fixing this, as well as bringing in some of the code from B> 2.1, here is the patch I applied to my B> Mailman/Bouncers/Postfix.py file for 2.0.6: | [root@list Bouncers]# diff Postfix.py.orig Postfix.py | 30c30 | < if msg.gettype() <> 'multipart/mixed': | --- >> if msg.gettype() <> 'multipart/report' and msg.gettype() <> >> 'multipart/mixed': B> 62c62 < pcre = re.compile(r'\t\t\tthe postfix program$', B> re.IGNORECASE) --- >> pcre = re.compile(r'\t\t\tthe\s(bns)?\s*(postfix|keftamail)', >> re.IGNORECASE) B> Does this look ok? Of hand, yes, although I don't intend to add this fix to 2.0.7. However, if you have a sample bounce message you can send me, please do. I'll add it to the 2.1 test suite. Thanks, -Barry From bob@nleaudio.com Tue Nov 6 05:53:04 2001 From: bob@nleaudio.com (Bob Puff@NLE) Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2001 00:53:04 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Fix for Postfix bounces References: <3BE62437.E4DA71CC@nleaudio.com> <15335.27614.614716.703787@anthem.wooz.org> Message-ID: <3BE77AC0.390FFE45@nleaudio.com> Hi Barry, > although I don't intend to add this fix to 2.0.7. Umm, I would if I were you! It definitely was a major pain to get hundreds of bounces messages in my mailbox. I never had the problem before, because I always had relatively clean lists. This latest one ended up being a fairly dirty list, and my Postfix logs show -thousands- of bounces. The kicker was that I could subscribe an address of "test@test.test", and Mailman wouldn't parse the bounce message. I'm running the first release of Postfix 022801, which I downloaded 03/01/01.. :-) I know there have been several patches since then, and perhaps this multipart/report thing may have changed, but I think it warrants parsing for. Below is a sample message. Bob Received: by main.nlenet.net (mbox bob) (with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.31 1998/05/13) Sun Nov 4 21:16:01 2001) X-From_: csc-admin@lists.churchsoundcheck.com Sun Nov 4 13:24:01 2001 >From bob Sun Nov 4 13:24:01 2001 Return-Path: Delivered-To: bob@nlenet.net Received: from list.nlenet.net (list.nlenet.net [208.178.159.75]) by main.nlenet.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 352A913D126 for ; Sun, 4 Nov 2001 13:24:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from list.nlenet.net (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by list.nlenet.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C7C8E17C008 for ; Sun, 4 Nov 2001 13:24:01 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: csc-admin@nlenet.net Received: by list.nlenet.net (Postfix) via BOUNCE id 975AC17C00D; Sun, 4 Nov 2001 13:23:38 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 4 Nov 2001 13:23:38 -0500 (EST) From: MAILER-DAEMON@nlenet.net (Mail Delivery System) Subject: Undelivered Mail Returned to Sender To: csc-admin@lists.churchsoundcheck.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/report; report-type=delivery-status; boundary="D55B717C10F.1004898218/list.nlenet.net" Message-Id: <20011104182338.975AC17C00D@list.nlenet.net> Sender: csc-owner@lists.churchsoundcheck.com Errors-To: csc-owner@lists.churchsoundcheck.com X-BeenThere: csc@lists.churchsoundcheck.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: ChurchSoundcheck Technical Team List List-Help: List-Archive: X-Mozilla-Status: 8001 This is a MIME-encapsulated message. --D55B717C10F.1004898218/list.nlenet.net Content-Description: Notification Content-Type: text/plain This is the Postfix program at host list.nlenet.net. I'm sorry to have to inform you that the message returned below could not be delivered to one or more destinations. For further assistance, please send mail to If you do so, please include this problem report. You can delete your own text from the message returned below. The Postfix program : Name service error for dazzlegraphics.com: Host not found, try again --D55B717C10F.1004898218/list.nlenet.net Content-Description: Delivery error report Content-Type: message/delivery-status Reporting-MTA: dns; list.nlenet.net Arrival-Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2001 13:14:02 -0500 (EST) Final-Recipient: rfc822; tim@dazzlegraphics.com Action: failed Status: 4.0.0 Diagnostic-Code: X-Postfix; Name service error for dazzlegraphics.com: Host not found, try again --D55B717C10F.1004898218/list.nlenet.net Content-Description: Undelivered Message Content-Type: message/rfc822 Received: from list.nlenet.net (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by list.nlenet.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id D55B717C10F; Thu, 1 Nov 2001 13:14:02 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: csc@nlenet.net Received: from mail.mvpctoday.org (adsl-63-195-116-77.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.195.116.77]) by list.nlenet.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1686717C0EE for ; Thu, 1 Nov 2001 13:13:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from youthm (dhcp7.mvpctoday.org [10.1.1.107]) by mail.mvpctoday.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA22773 for ; Thu, 1 Nov 2001 18:11:19 GMT Message-ID: <002501c16301$0d9b4040$6b01010a@mvpctoday.org> From: "Pat Carpenter" To: (etc, etc, etc...) From barry@zope.com Tue Nov 6 16:49:56 2001 From: barry@zope.com (Barry A. Warsaw) Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 11:49:56 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Upgrading from 2.0b5 to 2.1a2 References: <20010726151813.F21770@xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <15336.5300.223392.108665@anthem.wooz.org> >>>>> "TW" == Thomas Wouters writes: TW> Was this with a recent CVS Snapshot ? I checked in some TW> changes that should permanently fix all these problems, and TW> Barry checked in some changes before that that made the most TW> glaring problems go away by not starting qrunner from cron TW> anymore. Also, alpha 3 should have all those changes... From db@bibsys.no Tue Nov 6 17:19:25 2001 From: db@bibsys.no (Daniel Buchmann) Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2001 18:19:25 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] cron/checkdbs error Message-ID: <3BE81B9D.F7A45FD4@bibsys.no> If there are subscription/unsubscription requests waiting, but no moderated posts waiting for approval, cron/checkdbs gives me this error: Traceback (most recent call last): File "cron/checkdbs", line 104, in ? main() File "cron/checkdbs", line 67, in main text = text + '\n' + pending_requests(mlist) File "cron/checkdbs", line 82, in pending_requests when, addr, passwd, digest, lang = mlist.GetRecord(id) ValueError: unpack tuple of wrong size This only seems to happen on newly created lists (e.g. lists that never have had any moderated posts waiting for approval). How to produce the error: 1. Create a new list, set steps required for subscription to "Require approval" or "Confirm and approve". 2. Subscribe to the list. 3. run cron/checkdbs when the subscription request is waiting for moderator approval. From claw@2wire.com Tue Nov 6 20:42:30 2001 From: claw@2wire.com (J C Lawrence) Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2001 12:42:30 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] List CGI In-Reply-To: Message from Allan Baker of "Sat, 06 Oct 2001 11:39:05 CDT." <20011006113905.4143d315.allan@caldera.com.mx> References: <20011006113905.4143d315.allan@caldera.com.mx> Message-ID: <12787.1005079350@2wire.com> On Sat, 6 Oct 2001 11:39:05 -0500 Allan Baker wrote: > As a job assignment I'm required to make a script (its highly > likely it will be with a CGI script) so that mailman mailing lists > can be created using a web page. However my idea is not to > reinvent the wheel. Is there anything like it or do I have to > start coding? Already done for 2.1 -- J C Lawrence ---------(*) Satan, oscillate my metallic sonatas. claw@kanga.nu He lived as a devil, eh? http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/ Evil is a name of a foeman, as I live. From bob@nleaudio.com Tue Nov 6 20:52:30 2001 From: bob@nleaudio.com (Bob Puff@NLE) Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2001 15:52:30 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] List CGI References: <20011006113905.4143d315.allan@caldera.com.mx> <12787.1005079350@2wire.com> Message-ID: <3BE84D8D.84B597B8@nleaudio.com> > > As a job assignment I'm required to make a script (its highly > > likely it will be with a CGI script) so that mailman mailing lists > > can be created using a web page. However my idea is not to > > reinvent the wheel. Is there anything like it or do I have to > > start coding? > > Already done for 2.1 Well, not quite. It is complete only if you are using only one domain name on your machine. If you are doing virtual hosting, you need to modify the Postfix Virtual file (if running Postfix), adding the entries in there also. I've got a script I wrote that works, but the catch is you need "mailman" or "root" permissions to execute the newlist command. (Modifying Postfix's Virtual file takes different permissions yet.) My solution is to run a cron job as root (yeah I know, security hole) that looks in a queue for stuff to do, then does it if necessary. So I have the cgi script put the appropriate data in the queue, then the cron script (which runs every few minutes) calls the necessary script to do what needs to be done, at a privilege level that makes everything work. Bob From claw@kanga.nu Tue Nov 6 22:29:37 2001 From: claw@kanga.nu (J C Lawrence) Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2001 14:29:37 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Re: [Mailman-Users] threaded view on archive does not work In-Reply-To: Message from Lucas Hofman of "Mon, 05 Nov 2001 08:18:55 +0100." <0111051004.AA1004944569@lysntsmail.oslo.pgs.com> References: <0111051004.AA1004944569@lysntsmail.oslo.pgs.com> Message-ID: <8259.1005085777@kanga.nu> CC'ed to -developers to note that pipermail's threading seems either broken/fragile, and to note that the mbox archives for the -users list are borked (early apparency is that Pipermail is excessively restrictive on In-Reply-To header field formats). On Mon, 05 Nov 2001 08:18:55 +0100 Lucas Hofman wrote: > On Friday 02 November 2001 09:53, J C Lawrence wrote: >> On Fri, 02 Nov 2001 10:42:33 +0100 >> exmh. Quoting the headers from this very message: >> >> In-Reply-To: Message from Lucas Hofman of >> "Fri, 02 Nov 2001 10:42:33 +0100." >> <0111021004.AA1004693972@lysntsmail.oslo.pgs.com> References: >> <0111021004.AA1004693972@lysntsmail.oslo.pgs.com> > There are gone when the message arrives at my workstation (at > least, kmail 'show all headers' does not reveal them). Neither in > the copy received from your not the one sent by the list. Which is then a problem with your mail setup, and is not specific to either the mail I send, or the mailman lists at Python.Org. Quoting the full headers from another message I sent to this forum: -->-- X-envelope-from: mailman-users-admin@python.org Tue Nov 06 12:46:03 2001 Return-path: Envelope-to: claw@localhost Delivery-date: Tue, 06 Nov 2001 12:46:03 -0800 Received: from localhost [127.0.0.1] by dingo.home.kanga.nu with esmtp (Exim 3.32 #1 (Debian)) id 161D6h-0001ns-00; Tue, 06 Nov 2001 12:46:03 -0800 Delivered-to: claw@kanga.nu Received: from kanga.nu [157.22.12.214] by localhost with IMAP (fetchmail-5.9.3) for claw@localhost (single-drop); Tue, 06 Nov 2001 12:46:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.python.org (mail.python.org [63.102.49.29]) by bush.kanga.nu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4DCEE12E27 for ; Tue, 6 Nov 2001 12:44:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=mail.python.org) by mail.python.org with esmtp (Exim 3.21 #1) id 161D30-0000fp-00; Tue, 06 Nov 2001 15:42:14 -0500 Received: from [63.203.253.2] (helo=localhost) by mail.python.org with esmtp (Exim 3.21 #1) id 161D2h-0000bB-00 for mailman-users@python.org; Tue, 06 Nov 2001 15:41:55 -0500 Received: from 2wire.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4338E129A; Tue, 6 Nov 2001 12:41:25 -0800 (PST) In-reply-to: Message from "Leonard Jacobs" of "Tue, 06 Nov 2001 13:27:57 EST." <3BE7E55D.13726.2154F0A@localhost> References: <3BE7E55D.13726.2154F0A@localhost> X-message-flag: Are you sure that Microsoft Outlook is good enough for you to use? X-accepted-file-formats: text/plain preferred, Postscript and PDF accepted - *NO* Micosoft Office files please. X-face: ?^_yw@fA`CEX&}--=*&XqXbF-oePvxaT4(kyt\nwM9]{]N!>b^K}-Mb9 YH%saz^>nq5usBlD"s{(.h'_w|U^3ldUq7wVZz$`u>MB(-4$f\a6Eu8.e=Pf\ X-image-url: http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/kanga.face.tiff X-url: http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/ Message-id: <12753.1005079285@2wire.com> Sender: mailman-users-admin@python.org Errors-to: mailman-users-admin@python.org X-beenthere: mailman-users@python.org X-mailman-version: 2.0.6 (101270) Precedence: bulk List-help: List-post: List-subscribe: , List-id: Mailman mailing list management users List-unsubscribe: , List-archive: Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] resolving qfiles stuck in the queue From: J C Lawrence Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2001 12:41:25 -0800 To: Ljacobs@shambhala.com Cc: mailman-users@python.org -->-- Unfortunately the mbox files for the archives at python.org are borked, but checking other posts of mine there universally show correct in-Reply-To: and References: headers. eg: -->-- >From claw@kanga.nu Thu Nov 1 18:00:37 2001 From: claw@kanga.nu (J C Lawrence) Date: Thu, 01 Nov 2001 10:00:37 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Users] threaded view on archive does not work In-Reply-To: Message from Lucas Hofman of "Thu, 01 Nov 2001 11:30:22 +0100." <0111011004.AA1004610438@lysntsmail.oslo.pgs.com> References: <0111011004.AA1004610438@lysntsmail.oslo.pgs.com> Message-ID: <29859.1004637637@kanga.nu> -->-- > Do you have any any why your messages do not hread in the mailman > user maillist archive? No. > In other words, could it be that the mail > system at python.org does not see those headers too? No. This would appear to be another Pipermail bug. As you can see here: http://www.kanga.nu/archives/MUD-Dev-L/2001Q4/thread.php#00434 my messages thread properly under MHonArc (a tool I know handles thread headers properly). -- J C Lawrence ---------(*) Satan, oscillate my metallic sonatas. claw@kanga.nu He lived as a devil, eh? http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/ Evil is a name of a foeman, as I live. From totschnig.michael@uqam.ca Wed Nov 7 01:03:40 2001 From: totschnig.michael@uqam.ca (totschnig.michael@uqam.ca) Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2001 20:03:40 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] mangling of subject header by outlook or mailman Message-ID: <861yjb1jf7.fsf@cmo.uqam.ca> Hello, I have hit a strange problem with subject headers on a fairly recent (cvs) mailman system. The problem is that when people using outlook respond on the list to a message containing 8-bit characters, the message mailman sends out is unpleasantly mangled. I do not have access to a windows system with the same outlookk version that causes the problem installed, so I could not track the problem down to see if it is generated by outlook or mailman. Maybe anybody has seen the same problem. here are the exact syptoms. When I have a thread starting with a header (in raw form) Subject: [Cmo-discussion] =?iso-8859-1?Q?N=E9tiquette?= the answer written by outlook gets the following two header lines after being distributed by mailman: Subject: [Cmo-discussion] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_=5BCmo-discussion=5D_N=E9tiquette?=; Subject: [Cmo-discussion] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_=5BCmo-discussion=5D_N=E9tiquette?= and the problem gets worse and worse with any subseqent reply in the thread. can anyone tell me how to find the offending part in this, and if there is a remedy in mailman. Regards, Michael From news@bcn3net.com Wed Nov 7 19:43:23 2001 From: news@bcn3net.com (BCN Ltd) Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2001 19:43:23 -0000 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Software Development £10 per hour! Message-ID: BCN Mailer
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Normal rates for developers are up to £650 per day for senior developers - for contracts placed during the remainder of 2001 we are offering substantial savings on these rates by going offshore or if you would prefer a fixed price contract? - no problem.

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<0111051004.AA1004944569@lysntsmail.oslo.pgs.com> <8259.1005085777@kanga.nu> Message-ID: <3BEA0FB2.73A1147D@nleaudio.com> There's another couple things in pipermail that I also wanted to bring up. #1. Having the link to "Download the raw archive" is IMHO a serious serurity leak. This link to the .mbox file allows the user to grab every email address that has posted to the list... even if you have Mailman "remove" them. I take this out of every install I do. How many people really want a .mbox style file anyways, with all the header junk? #2. Apparently messages like mine don't wrap properly, because Pipermail uses the
    to display it. Would not a better approach be to simply change the font to a fixed-width style? From what I read of the HTML spec, most all html tags within the 
    s still get executed.

Bob


From bob@nleaudio.com  Thu Nov  8 05:42:05 2001
From: bob@nleaudio.com (Bob Puff@NLE)
Date: Thu, 08 Nov 2001 00:42:05 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] SimpleMatch.py problem
Message-ID: <3BEA1B2D.E3CCEF96@nleaudio.com>

Hi Barry & gang,

I finally figured out why my few additions to SimpleMatch.py bounce messages weren't working.  It turns out that if one of the lines in one of the previous cases matches, but the other ones don't, the search is aborted immediately, instead of testing the other patterns.  I'm sure this is a simple fix, but I'm not fluent enough in Python (yet) to take a stab at this.  The offending code is:

  state = 0
    while 1:
        line = msg.fp.readline()
        if not line:
            break
        if state == 0:
            for scre, ecre, acre in patterns:
                if scre.search(line):
                    state = 1
                    break
        elif state == 1:
            mo = acre.search(line)
            if mo:
                addrs[mo.group('addr')] = 1
            elif ecre.search(line):
                break
    return addrs.keys() or None
  
Bob


From teknix@alloy.net  Thu Nov  8 07:36:29 2001
From: teknix@alloy.net (Phillip Smith)
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2001 02:36:29 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] =?X-UNKNOWN?Q?Re=3A_=5BMailman-Developers=5D_Software_Development?=
 =?X-UNKNOWN?Q?_=A310_per_hour!?=
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

Greetings.

Can anyone explain to me why this spam E-mail made it to the list?
I see a lot of spam being sent to this list, but in this particular case,
one of the mailing lists I run also received the same identical message..
which I find odd.

Did they intentionally target mailman powered lists?  I find it more odd
that for both mailman-developers and my list, subscription/confirmation is
required, but I find no trace of any addresses with the header domains or
From: address, which would indicate to me there is some way around the
subscription process, or that they came up with a scheme to go through
the sub/confirm and then unsubscribe.  Seems like a lot of trouble just to
send spam though...

Am I missing something here?

-phillip



From mailman-dev@dark4ce.com  Thu Nov  8 13:08:41 2001
From: mailman-dev@dark4ce.com (Hanno Liem)
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2001 14:08:41 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Problem with mailman and postfix
Message-ID: <20011108140841.A68369@dark4ce.com>

Hi,

I have consulted all the online docs, but haven't been able to find anything relating to my problem. I hope someone here can help me.

For some reason, mailman is unable to send outgoing email to any mailing lists.

In /var/log/maillog postfix logs:

Nov  8 13:47:01 shane postfix/master[24382]: warning: process /usr/local/libexec
/postfix/local pid 61748 exit status 1
Nov  8 13:47:01 shane postfix/master[24382]: warning: /usr/local/libexec/postfix
/local: bad command startup -- throttling

Normal mail can be sent out by shane. Only mail from postfix hangs somewhere...

Any hints would be much appreciated.

kind regards,

Hanno Liem
Your Choice


From jra@baylink.com  Thu Nov  8 17:06:13 2001
From: jra@baylink.com (Jay R. Ashworth)
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2001 12:06:13 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] threaded view on archive does not work
In-Reply-To: <3BEA0FB2.73A1147D@nleaudio.com>; from "Bob Puff@NLE"  on Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 11:53:06PM -0500
References: <0111051004.AA1004944569@lysntsmail.oslo.pgs.com> <8259.1005085777@kanga.nu> <3BEA0FB2.73A1147D@nleaudio.com>
Message-ID: <20011108120613.48451@scfn.thpl.lib.fl.us>

On Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 11:53:06PM -0500, Bob Puff@NLE wrote:
> There's another couple things in pipermail that I also wanted to bring up.
>
> #1. Having the link to "Download the raw archive" is IMHO a serious
> serurity leak. This link to the .mbox file allows the user to grab
> every email address that has posted to the list... even if you have
> Mailman "remove" them. I take this out of every install I do. How many
> people really want a .mbox style file anyways, with all the header
> junk?

That'd be those of us who use a Real Mail Program to handle mail and
want to use it to sift through archives, too.

> #2. Apparently messages like mine don't wrap properly, because
> Pipermail uses the 
     
     to display it. Would not a better
> approach be to simply change the font to a fixed-width style? From
> what I read of the HTML spec, most all html tags within the 
    s
> still get executed.

IIRC, I grabbed such an archive from some Mailman maintained list
somewhere, and was agahst to see that *everything* in it had been
HTMLized and PREized.  I wish I could remember where, so I could figure
out if it was merely horribly configured...

Cheers,
-- jra
-- 
Jay R. Ashworth                                                jra@baylink.com
Member of the Technical Staff     Baylink                             RFC 2100
The Suncoast Freenet         The Things I Think
Tampa Bay, Florida        http://baylink.pitas.com             +1 727 804 5015

   "If you don't have a dream; how're you gonna have a dream come true?"
     -- Captain Sensible, The Damned (from South Pacific's "Happy Talk")


From barry@zope.com  Thu Nov  8 19:32:06 2001
From: barry@zope.com (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2001 14:32:06 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] FAQ-o-Matic
Message-ID: <15338.56758.381047.317350@anthem.wooz.org>

A while back it was suggested that we implement an on-line interactive
FAQ, where the community can add and expand on questions.  I've now
adapted the Python FAQ wizard to add a Mailman FAQ wizard.  See

    http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py

There's only 3 questions and answers there so far, but you can help
make it a better FAQ!  I'm opening up access so that anybody can add
or change FAQ entries.  This is an honor system, and the password is
"Mailman".

Let me know if you think we need more, or different categories.

Enjoy!
-Barry


From eds@reric.net  Thu Nov  8 21:17:29 2001
From: eds@reric.net (Eric Seppanen)
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2001 15:17:29 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] clobber_date bug
Message-ID: <20011108151729.A21426@thud.reric.net>

Hello nice Mailman folks, thanks for the great software.  I've been
using it for over a year to run a handful of small mailing lists and
I've always been impressed with the quality.

I just noticed a small bug.  On an active list, I turned on the
clobber_date setting (to apply the "resent" time to messages stored in
the archives), and I noticed that it messed up the order of a bunch of
messages in the archive.

The reason is that clobber_date doesn't put the timezone information in
the Date: field.  So it looks as though the messages are dated GMT
instead of GMT-6, and the messages from this morning appear after those
from the afternoon.

Example message without clobber_date:
  Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2001 10:48:20 -0600

Example message with clobber_date:
  Date: Thu Nov  8 13:33:00 2001
  X-Original-Date: Thu, 08 Nov 2001 13:31:30 -0600

Thanks,
Eric


From Dan Mick   Thu Nov  8 21:59:30 2001
From: Dan Mick  (Dan Mick)
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2001 13:59:30 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] clobber_date bug
Message-ID: <200111082158.NAA21634@utopia.West.Sun.COM>

> Hello nice Mailman folks, thanks for the great software.  I've been
> using it for over a year to run a handful of small mailing lists and
> I've always been impressed with the quality.
> 
> I just noticed a small bug.  On an active list, I turned on the
> clobber_date setting (to apply the "resent" time to messages stored in
> the archives), and I noticed that it messed up the order of a bunch of
> messages in the archive.
> 
> The reason is that clobber_date doesn't put the timezone information in
> the Date: field.  So it looks as though the messages are dated GMT
> instead of GMT-6, and the messages from this morning appear after those
> from the afternoon.
> 
> Example message without clobber_date:
>   Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2001 10:48:20 -0600
> 
> Example message with clobber_date:
>   Date: Thu Nov  8 13:33:00 2001
>   X-Original-Date: Thu, 08 Nov 2001 13:31:30 -0600

While clobber_date doesn't process the existing date, it
seems to replace it by the local date (namely
the output of ctime(time()).  That seems correct to me.
Are you certain your local TZ is set properly?



From eds@reric.net  Thu Nov  8 22:08:44 2001
From: eds@reric.net (Eric Seppanen)
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2001 16:08:44 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] clobber_date bug
In-Reply-To: <200111082158.NAA21634@utopia.West.Sun.COM>; from dmick@utopia.West.Sun.COM on Thu, Nov 08, 2001 at 01:59:30PM -0800
References: <200111082158.NAA21634@utopia.West.Sun.COM>
Message-ID: <20011108160844.A21833@thud.reric.net>

On Thu, Nov 08, 2001 at 01:59:30PM -0800, Dan Mick wrote:
> > 
> > The reason is that clobber_date doesn't put the timezone information in
> > the Date: field.  So it looks as though the messages are dated GMT
> > instead of GMT-6, and the messages from this morning appear after those
> > from the afternoon.
> > 
> > Example message without clobber_date:
> >   Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2001 10:48:20 -0600
> > 
> > Example message with clobber_date:
> >   Date: Thu Nov  8 13:33:00 2001
> >   X-Original-Date: Thu, 08 Nov 2001 13:31:30 -0600
> 
> While clobber_date doesn't process the existing date, it
> seems to replace it by the local date (namely
> the output of ctime(time()).  That seems correct to me.
> Are you certain your local TZ is set properly?

Using python 1.5.2, ctime() is giving local time without timezone info.
If I use asctime(gmtime(time)) I seem to get the correct result.

[eds@ike eds]$ python
Python 1.5.2 (#1, Dec 21 2000, 15:29:08)  [GCC egcs-2.91.66
19990314/Linux (egcs- on linux-i386
Copyright 1991-1995 Stichting Mathematisch Centrum, Amsterdam
>>> time.ctime(time.time())
'Thu Nov  8 16:01:44 2001'
>>> time.tzname
('CST', 'CDT')
>>> time.timezone /3600
6
>>> time.asctime(time.gmtime(time.time()))
'Thu Nov  8 22:06:05 2001'

So it looks like my options are to use asctime(gmtime(time)) or write a
routine that parses time.timezone into "-0600".


From Dan Mick   Thu Nov  8 22:23:58 2001
From: Dan Mick  (Dan Mick)
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2001 14:23:58 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] clobber_date bug
Message-ID: <200111082223.OAA22771@utopia.West.Sun.COM>

> > While clobber_date doesn't process the existing date, it
> > seems to replace it by the local date (namely
> > the output of ctime(time()).  That seems correct to me.
> > Are you certain your local TZ is set properly?
> 
> Using python 1.5.2, ctime() is giving local time without timezone info.

Good point.  It's the correct time, but it's not fully-qualified.
I get it.

> If I use asctime(gmtime(time)) I seem to get the correct result.
> 
> [eds@ike eds]$ python
> Python 1.5.2 (#1, Dec 21 2000, 15:29:08)  [GCC egcs-2.91.66
> 19990314/Linux (egcs- on linux-i386
> Copyright 1991-1995 Stichting Mathematisch Centrum, Amsterdam
> >>> time.ctime(time.time())
> 'Thu Nov  8 16:01:44 2001'
> >>> time.tzname
> ('CST', 'CDT')
> >>> time.timezone /3600
> 6
> >>> time.asctime(time.gmtime(time.time()))
> 'Thu Nov  8 22:06:05 2001'

Well, sorta.  You really want that TZ information appended.

> So it looks like my options are to use asctime(gmtime(time)) or write a
> routine that parses time.timezone into "-0600".

Luckily 'altzone' is defined in time, so  

"+%02d%02d" % (time.altzone / 3600, time.altzone % 3600)

seems to do it.  But it sure looks like a bug to me.





From eds@reric.net  Thu Nov  8 23:08:01 2001
From: eds@reric.net (Eric Seppanen)
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2001 17:08:01 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] clobber_date bug
In-Reply-To: <200111082223.OAA22771@utopia.West.Sun.COM>; from dmick@utopia.West.Sun.COM on Thu, Nov 08, 2001 at 02:23:58PM -0800
References: <200111082223.OAA22771@utopia.West.Sun.COM>
Message-ID: <20011108170801.A22137@thud.reric.net>

On Thu, Nov 08, 2001 at 02:23:58PM -0800, Dan Mick wrote:
> 
> > So it looks like my options are to use asctime(gmtime(time)) or write a
> > routine that parses time.timezone into "-0600".
> 
> Luckily 'altzone' is defined in time, so  
> 
> "+%02d%02d" % (time.altzone / 3600, time.altzone % 3600)

Well, that's not totally right either.  It doesn't look as though 'time'
has a function to tell us if we're in the DST timezone or the non-DST
timezone, so there's no way to tell if we're supposed to use 'timezone'
or 'altzone'.  So it looks to me like using 'gmtime' is the only way to
get the right info under all circumstances.

To be totally RFC 822/2822 compliant, you could convert to GMT (using
gmtime) and then blindly append "+0000".  But since (in 2.0.6) this only
happens to messages on the way to being archived, it doesn't seem 
terribly likely that message will ever be resent again.  So as long as
the archiver is happy I'm not too concerned.

Ugh.  I just noticed that RFC 2822 requires day-month-year-time order,
while ctime and asctime produce month-day-time year order.  So looks to
me like this is most correct:

time.strftime("%a, %d %b %Y %H:%M:%S +0000", time.gmtime(time.time()))




From Dan Mick   Thu Nov  8 23:41:45 2001
From: Dan Mick  (Dan Mick)
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2001 15:41:45 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] clobber_date bug
Message-ID: <200111082340.PAA28098@utopia.West.Sun.COM>

> On Thu, Nov 08, 2001 at 02:23:58PM -0800, Dan Mick wrote:
> > 
> > > So it looks like my options are to use asctime(gmtime(time)) or write a
> > > routine that parses time.timezone into "-0600".
> > 
> > Luckily 'altzone' is defined in time, so  
> > 
> > "+%02d%02d" % (time.altzone / 3600, time.altzone % 3600)
> 
> Well, that's not totally right either.  It doesn't look as though 'time'
> has a function to tell us if we're in the DST timezone or the non-DST
> timezone, so there's no way to tell if we're supposed to use 'timezone'
> or 'altzone'. 

Well, there's the ninth return value of localtime().  But I'm too
lazy to write the code to use it (as you can surely tell by
the fact that I'm too lazy to tell the difference between
altzone and timezone.. ;)


> So it looks to me like using 'gmtime' is the only way to
> get the right info under all circumstances.
> 
> To be totally RFC 822/2822 compliant, you could convert to GMT (using
> gmtime) and then blindly append "+0000".  But since (in 2.0.6) this only
> happens to messages on the way to being archived, it doesn't seem 
> terribly likely that message will ever be resent again.  So as long as
> the archiver is happy I'm not too concerned.
> 
> Ugh.  I just noticed that RFC 2822 requires day-month-year-time order,
> while ctime and asctime produce month-day-time year order.  So looks to
> me like this is most correct:
> 
> time.strftime("%a, %d %b %Y %H:%M:%S +0000", time.gmtime(time.time()))




From kaja@daimi.au.dk  Fri Nov  9 16:17:44 2001
From: kaja@daimi.au.dk (Kaja P. Christiansen)
Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2001 17:17:44 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Re: [Mailman-Users] FAQ-o-Matic
In-Reply-To: <15338.56758.381047.317350@anthem.wooz.org>
References: <15338.56758.381047.317350@anthem.wooz.org>
Message-ID: <15340.424.7205.533860@daimi.au.dk>

Barry A. Warsaw writes:

 >     http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
 > 
 > There's only 3 questions and answers there so far, but you can help
 > make it a better FAQ!  I'm opening up access so that anybody can add
 > or change FAQ entries.  This is an honor system, and the password is
 > "Mailman".
 > 
 > Let me know if you think we need more, or different categories.

At the time of this writing, there are already 10 questions/answers!
I think it would great with more categories. A possible list could for 
example be (numbers in parenthesis refer to the current questions):

Introduction (or General) (1.1,1.2,1.3)
Installation (initial, upgrading, applying patches)
Configuring your MTA (from README's for postfix, exim, ...)
List administration (1.5,1.8)
Troubleshooting (1.4, 1.7, 1.9, 1.10)
Internationalization
Documentation


Kaja



From barry@zope.com  Fri Nov  9 16:56:16 2001
From: barry@zope.com (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2001 11:56:16 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] clobber_date bug
References: <20011108151729.A21426@thud.reric.net>
Message-ID: <15340.2736.351712.795244@anthem.wooz.org>

>>>>> "ES" == Eric Seppanen  writes:

    ES> I just noticed a small bug.  On an active list, I turned on
    ES> the clobber_date setting (to apply the "resent" time to
    ES> messages stored in the archives), and I noticed that it messed
    ES> up the order of a bunch of messages in the archive.

    ES> The reason is that clobber_date doesn't put the timezone
    ES> information in the Date: field.  So it looks as though the
    ES> messages are dated GMT instead of GMT-6, and the messages from
    ES> this morning appear after those from the afternoon.

You're right that in Mailman 2.0.x, time.ctime() is used and that
simply doesn't produce a proper RFC 2822 date.

In Mailman 2.1 however, we use email.Utils.formatdate() which is
supposed to produce a valid RFC 2822 date, homed at GMT.  However, I
realized that with email-0.94, email.Utils.formatdate() is simply an
alias for rfc822.formatdate(), and the latter has not been updated to
RFC 2822.  Although legal, rfc822.formatdate() produces dates with
obs-zone (obsolete zone designations, e.g. GMT) instead of the now
preferred numeric offsets from -0000.

So while MM2.1's clobber_date code should be technically correct, I
think it would be better to update email.Utils.formatdate().  Below is
what I plan on checking into CVS.

Note that this adds an optional argument `localtime' which formats the
date based on the local timezone's daylight savings time information.
For backwards compatibility, we use -0000 by default.  Also, in MM2.1
I plan on leaving clobber_date to use -0000.

-Barry

-------------------- snip snip --------------------
def formatdate(timeval=None, localtime=0):
    """Returns a formatted time as specified by RFC 2822, e.g.:

    Fri, 09 Nov 2001 01:08:47 -0000

    Optional timeval if given is a float time as accepted by localtime() or
    gmtime().  Optional localtime is a flag that when true, interprets and
    returns a time relative to the local timezone instead of UTC.
    """
    # Note: we cannot use strftime() because that honors the locale and RFC
    # 2822 requires that day and month names be the English abbreviations.
    if timeval is None:
        timeval = time.time()
    if localtime:
        now = time.localtime(timeval)
        # Calculate timezone offset, based on whether the local zone has
        # daylight savings time, and whether DST is in effect.
        if time.daylight and now[-1]:
            offset = time.altzone
        else:
            offset = time.timezone
        zone = '%+03d%02d' % (offset / -3600, offset % 60)
    else:
        now = time.gmtime(timeval)
        # Timezone offset is always -0000
        zone = '-0000'
    return '%s, %02d %s %04d %02d:%02d:%02d %s' % (
        ['Mon', 'Tue', 'Wed', 'Thu', 'Fri', 'Sat', 'Sun'][now[6]],
        now[2],
        ['Jan', 'Feb', 'Mar', 'Apr', 'May', 'Jun',
         'Jul', 'Aug', 'Sep', 'Oct', 'Nov', 'Dec'][now[1] - 1],
        now[0], now[3], now[4], now[5],
        zone)


From barry@zope.com  Fri Nov  9 22:41:36 2001
From: barry@zope.com (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2001 17:41:36 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] RELEASE Mailman 2.0.7
Message-ID: <15340.23456.886142.932986@anthem.wooz.org>

Hi all,

I'm releasing Mailman 2.0.7 which fixes two potential, though obscure
security or denial-of-service attacks, along with a few other minor
bug fixes.  Details:

- If you are running Python 1.5.2, it is possible for someone to
  carefully craft some cookie data, and then trick Mailman into
  accepting that data, that will crash your Python interpreter.

  If you are not running Python 1.5.2, you should be invulnerable to
  the crash, however it is still possible for someone to even more
  carefully craft some cookie data that could cause arbitrary class
  constructors to be executed on the server.

  While I believe it is difficult to exploit this, Mailman 2.0.7
  closes this hole completely, by disabling the Cookie.py module's
  default unpickling of cookie data.

- It is possible that Mailman's bounce handler could receive a bounce
  message that looked like a DSN report, but was incorrectly
  formatted.  Under Mailman 2.0.6's bounce detector, you would get a
  traceback for a message that would never be removed from the queue,
  thus potentially wedging your qrunner until the offending message
  was manually deleted.

  Mailman 2.0.7 fixes the DSN.py bounce detector.

There are a few other useful bug fixes in this release, described in
the NEWS excerpt below.  I recommend anybody running a version of
Mailman up to, and including 2.0.6 to upgrade to 2.0.7.

I'm releasing this version only as a tarball -- no patch file is
provided at this time.  As of this moment, only the SourceForge site
is up-to-date, although I expect www.list.org and www.gnu.org to
follow soon.  The release information is available on SourceForge at:

    http://sourceforge.net/project/shownotes.php?release_id=60758

and the file can be downloaded from:

    http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=103&release_id=60758

See also:

    http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman
    http://www.list.org
    http://mailman.sf.net

Cheers
-Barry

-------------------- snip snip --------------------
2.0.7 (09-Nov-2001)

    Security fixes:

    - Closed a hole in cookie management whereby some carefully
      crafted untrusted cookie data could crash Mailman if used with
      Python 1.5.2, or cause some unintended class constructors to be
      run on the server.

    - In the DSN.py bounce handler, a message that was DSN-like, but
      which was missing a "report-type" parameter could cause a
      non-deletable bounce message to crash Mailman forever, requiring
      manual intervention.

    Bug fixes:

    - Stray % signs in headers and footers could cause crashes.  Now
      they'll just cause an [INVALID HEADER] or [INVALID FOOTER]
      string to be added.

    - The mail->news gateway has been made more robust in the face of
      duplicate headers, and reserved headers that some news servers
      reject.  If the message is still rejected, it is saved in
      $prefix/nntp instead of discarded.

    - Hand-crafted invalid chunk number in membership management
      display could cause a traceback.



From barry@zope.com  Sat Nov 10 03:56:14 2001
From: barry@zope.com (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2001 22:56:14 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] cron/checkdbs error
References: <3BE81B9D.F7A45FD4@bibsys.no>
Message-ID: <15340.42334.721866.746328@anthem.wooz.org>

>>>>> "DB" == Daniel Buchmann  writes:

    DB> If there are subscription/unsubscription requests waiting, but
    DB> no moderated posts waiting for approval, cron/checkdbs gives
    DB> me this error:

    DB> This only seems to happen on newly created lists (e.g. lists
    DB> that never have had any moderated posts waiting for approval).

Fixed, thanks.


From marc_news@valinux.com  Sat Nov 10 01:34:47 2001
From: marc_news@valinux.com (Marc MERLIN)
Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2001 17:34:47 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Having more than 16,000 lists
In-Reply-To: <15322.8042.967043.536680@anthem.wooz.org>; from barry@zope.com on Fri, Oct 26, 2001 at 10:43:54PM -0400
References: <87hesmbysl.fsf@nausicaa.interq.or.jp>  <20011026181219.O12632@magic.merlins.org> <15322.8042.967043.536680@anthem.wooz.org>
Message-ID: <20011109173447.B32688@gandalf.merlins.org>

On Fri, Oct 26, 2001 at 10:43:54PM -0400, Barry A. Warsaw wrote:
>     MM> Just for the record, Sourceforge just hit the 16,000 lists
>     MM> limit today and broke because ext2fs doesn't support more than
>     MM> 32,000 links to a directory (archives/private had 32,000
>     MM> archive dirs) I'm told freebsd's UFS has similar problems.
> 
> Wow, neat!  Not for you, but neat. :)
 
BTW, I ended up removing all the HTML archive directories since I've turned
off HTML archiving anyway.
That gives  us a little  while (more  than six months  if we are  lucky :-D)
before we hit the 32,000 lists mark.

I'm thinking  about an optional  modification to mailman which  only affects
list  creation that  creates  the mailman/foo/l/li/listname  dirs, and  then
symlinks all this to mailman/foo/listname
Yeah, symlinks aren't great, but the advantage is that it requires no other
changes to the mailman code

>     MM> Of course, that can be fixed with Residerfs/XFS/name your FS
>     MM> here or archives/private/l/li/listname{,.mbox} but my point
>     MM> was that if you create a directory for each attachment, you're
>     MM> going to hit the 32,000 limit very quickly.
> 
> Ah, so /that's/ why we have /home/groups/m/ma/mailman... :)
 
Yep :-)
(it's also to allow for splitting  over more file servers and partitions and
dealing with amanda  (backup software) very unfortunate  limitation of being
unable to backup more than a tape's worth of data per partition)
 
>     MM> As far as I know, most FS don't handle hundreds of thousands
>     MM> of files in the same dir very well, but at least they handle
>     MM> it.
> 
> Don't worry, we're not talking about a directory for each attachment,
> but a directory for each message with an attachment.  Hmm, maybe we
> /should/ worry!  32k messages with attachments sure doesn't seem all
> that many.

We'd hit that pretty quickly on SF.net :-)

Marc
-- 
Microsoft is to operating systems & security ....
                                      .... what McDonalds is to gourmet cooking
  
Home page: http://marc.merlins.org/   |   Finger marc_f@merlins.org for PGP key


From bob@nleaudio.com  Sun Nov 11 21:31:11 2001
From: bob@nleaudio.com (Bob Puff@NLE)
Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2001 16:31:11 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Bounce handler problem - another one in 2.0.6
Message-ID: <3BEEEE1F.D3100DD4@nleaudio.com>

Just discovered this one:

A user was subscribed to the list using some capital letters in their email address.
Emails to ther user were bouncing, and the bounce handler did properly detect the user's address.
However, the bounce log shows "User not a member", and shows the email in lower case.
Other than the case, the address -is- exactly the same.  So, I assume that the mixed case is 
the reason the bounce handler is not taking the guy out.

Ideas?  Fixes?

Bob


From bob@nleaudio.com  Mon Nov 12 07:03:30 2001
From: bob@nleaudio.com (Bob Puff@NLE)
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 02:03:30 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Mod to list_members to show nomail, digest types
Message-ID: <3BEF7442.7C20EEE6@nleaudio.com>

Hey gang,

A while back someone requested a way to get the listing of nomail list members.  I recently needed not
only that, but also the ability to sort out digest mime users, and digest plain text users.
Below is a replacement list_members program (that goes in $prefix/bin) that adds four new commands 
with which to accomplish this:

  -x = exclude nomail members
  -n = list only nomail members
  -m = list digest mime members
  -l = list plain text digest members

This script was modified from the 2.0.6 Mailman code - NOT tested with 2.1!!!  Enjoy!

Bob

========cut here=============
#! /usr/bin/env python
#
# Copyright (C) 1998,1999,2000 by the Free Software Foundation, Inc.
#
# This program is free software; you can redistribute it and/or
# modify it under the terms of the GNU General Public License
# as published by the Free Software Foundation; either version 2
# of the License, or (at your option) any later version.
# 
# This program is distributed in the hope that it will be useful,
# but WITHOUT ANY WARRANTY; without even the implied warranty of
# MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE.  See the
# GNU General Public License for more details.
# 
# You should have received a copy of the GNU General Public License
# along with this program; if not, write to the Free Software 
# Foundation, Inc., 59 Temple Place - Suite 330, Boston, MA 02111-1307, USA.

"""List all the members of a mailing list.

Usage: %(program)s [-o file] [-r] [-d] [-p] [-h] listname

Where:

    -o file or --output file
        Write output to specified file instead of standard out.

    -r or --regular
        Print just the regular (non-digest) members.

    -d or --digest
        Print just the digest members.

    -x or --exclude
        Exclude all nomail members from list
    
    -n or --nomail
        Print only the nomail members

    -l or --plain
        Print only plain text digest members

    -m or --mime
        Print only mime digest members

    -p or --preserve
        Output member addresses case preserved the way they were added to the
        list.  Otherwise, addresses are printed in all lowercase.

    -h or --help
        Print this help message and exit.

    listname is the name of the mailing list to use.

Note that if neither -r or -d is supplied, both regular members are printed
first, followed by digest members, but no indication is given as to address
status.

"""

import sys
import string
import getopt

import paths
from Mailman import MailList
from Mailman import Errors
from Mailman import Defaults
from Mailman import mm_cfg


program = sys.argv[0]

rmem = {}
dmem = {}

def usage(status, msg=''):
    print __doc__ % globals()
    if msg:
        print msg
    sys.exit(status)



def main():
    try:
        opts, args = getopt.getopt(
            sys.argv[1:],
            'dprnmxlo:h',
            ['digest', 'regular', 'preserve', 'nomail', 'mime', 'xclude', 'plain', 'output=', 'help'])
    except getopt.error, msg:
        usage(1, msg)

    if len(args) <> 1:
        usage(1)

    listname = string.lower(args[0])
    outfile = None
    regular = None
    digest = None
    preserve = None
    nomail = None
    mimef = None
    xclude = None
    plaint = None

    for opt, arg in opts:
        if opt in ('-h', '--help'):
            usage(0)
        elif opt in ('-o', '--output'):
            outfile = arg
        elif opt in ('-r', '--regular'):
            regular = 1
        elif opt in ('-d', '--digest'):
            digest = 1
        elif opt in ('-p', '--preserve'):
            preserve = 1
        elif opt in ('-n', '--nomail'):
            nomail = 1
        elif opt in ('-m', '--mime'):
            mimef = 1
        elif opt in ('-x', '--exclude-nomail'):
            xclude = 1
        elif opt in ('-l', '--plain'):
            plaint = 1
    if plaint:
        digest = 1
    if mimef:
        digest = 1
    if regular is None and digest is None:
        regular = digest = 1
    if xclude is None and nomail is None:
        xclude = nomail = 1
    if mimef is None and plaint is None:
        mimef = plaint = 1 

    if outfile:
        try:
            fp = open(outfile, 'w')
        except IOError:
            print 'Could not open file for writing:', outfile
            sys.exit(1)
    else:
        fp = sys.stdout

    try:
        mlist = MailList.MailList(listname, lock=0)
    except Errors.MMListError, e:
        print 'No such list "%s"\n%s' % (listname, e)
        sys.exit(1)

    # filters for recipient calculation
    def delivery_enabled_p(x, s=mlist, v=mm_cfg.DisableDelivery):
        return not s.GetUserOption(x, v)
    def delivery_disabled_p(x, s=mlist, v=mm_cfg.DisableDelivery):
        return s.GetUserOption(x, v)
    def likes_mime_p(x, s=mlist, v=mm_cfg.DisableMime):
        return not s.GetUserOption(x, v)
    def hates_mime_p(x, s=mlist, v=mm_cfg.DisableMime):
        return s.GetUserOption(x, v)   

    if preserve:
         for addr in mlist.GetDeliveryMembers():
             rmem[addr] = addr
         for addr in mlist.GetDigestDeliveryMembers():
             dmem[addr] = addr
    else:
         for addr in mlist.GetMembers():
             rmem[addr] = addr
         for addr in mlist.GetDigestMembers():
             dmem[addr] = addr

    rmembers = filter(delivery_enabled_p, rmem.keys())
    rnomembers = filter(delivery_disabled_p, rmem.keys())
    dmem2 = filter(delivery_enabled_p, dmem.keys())
    dmembers = filter(hates_mime_p, dmem2)
    dmime = filter(likes_mime_p, dmem2)
    dmem2 = filter(delivery_disabled_p, dmem.keys())
    dnomembers = filter(hates_mime_p, dmem2)
    dnomime = filter(likes_mime_p, dmem2)

    stdout = sys.stdout
    try:
        sys.stdout = fp
        if regular:
            if xclude:
                for addr in rmembers:
                    print addr
            if nomail:
                for addr in rnomembers:
                    print addr
        if digest:
            if xclude:
                if plaint:
                    for addr in dmembers:
                        print addr
                if mimef:
                    for addr in dmime:
                        print addr
            if nomail:
                if plaint:
                    for addr in dnomembers:
                        print addr
                if mimef:
                    for addr in dnomime:
                        print addr

    finally:
        sys.stdout = stdout


if __name__ == '__main__':
    main()


From totschnig.michael@uqam.ca  Mon Nov 12 11:37:14 2001
From: totschnig.michael@uqam.ca (totschnig.michael@uqam.ca)
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 06:37:14 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Re: mangling of subject header by outlook or mailman
In-Reply-To: <861yjb1jf7.fsf@cmo.uqam.ca> (totschnig.michael@uqam.ca's
 message of "Tue, 06 Nov 2001 20:03:40 -0500")
References: <861yjb1jf7.fsf@cmo.uqam.ca>
Message-ID: <86y9lccj9x.fsf@cmo.uqam.ca>

Hello,

sorry for following up to my own message, but with the help of a
friend using outlook, I could gather data that helps describe the
problem more precisely.

1) when sending a mail to a mailman list with the title
"test de deboguage des =E9 et =E8 dans le header subject" which gets
encoded by Pine as=20

Subject: =3D?ISO-8859-1?Q?test_de_deboguage_des_=3DE9_et_=3DE8_dans_le?=3D
 =3D?ISO-8859-1?Q?_header_subject?=3D

2) mailman generates=20

Subject: [Test] =3D?ISO-8859-1?Q?test_de_deboguage_des_=3DE9_et_=3DE8_dan=
s_le?=3D
 =3D?ISO-8859-1?Q?_header_subject?=3D

3) a user of outlookexpress 5 replies both directly and via the
list. the direct reply has the following header:
   =20
Subject: =3D?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_=3D5BTest=3D5D_test_de_deboguage_des_=3DE9_=
et_=3DE8_dans_le_he?=3D
	=3D?iso-8859-1?Q?ader_subject?=3D

which still gets correctly decoded by mail readers.

4) but the mail transmitted by mailman gets the following headers.=20

Subject: [Test] =3D?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_=3D5BTest=3D5D_test_de_deboguage_des=
_=3DE9_et_=3DE8_dans_le_he?=3D
	=3D?iso-8859-1?Q?ader_subject?=3D;
	Subject: [Test] =3D?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_=3D5BTest=3D5D_test_de_deboguage_de=
s_=3DE9_et_=3DE8_dans_le_he?=3D
	=3D?iso-8859-1?Q?ader_subject?=3D;
		=3D?iso-8859-1?Q?ader_subject?=3D

i do not know the standards about encoding of headers, but i think
there is a problem with the header generated by mailman. i rgret not
being component enough to contribute more to debug it.

regards, michael


From tkikuchi@is.kochi-u.ac.jp  Mon Nov 12 13:19:16 2001
From: tkikuchi@is.kochi-u.ac.jp (Tokio Kikuchi)
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 22:19:16 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Re: mangling of subject header by outlook or
 mailman
References: <861yjb1jf7.fsf@cmo.uqam.ca> <86y9lccj9x.fsf@cmo.uqam.ca>
Message-ID: <3BEFCC54.7BD9A756@is.kochi-u.ac.jp>

Hi,

totschnig.michael@uqam.ca wrote:
> 

> 3) a user of outlookexpress 5 replies both directly and via the
> list. the direct reply has the following header:
> 
> Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_=5BTest=5D_test_de_deboguage_des_=E9_et_=E8_dans_le_he?=
>         =?iso-8859-1?Q?ader_subject?=
> 
> which still gets correctly decoded by mail readers.

How other mailers do with this phase of subject ?

This problem has long been known to Japanese mailing list owners
and we solved this problem by decoding the MIME header _before_
adding the list prefix and then re-encoding the subject into MIME.

I wrote a module to convert the incoming Japanese mail into EUC
while decoding the MIME headers. All the outgoing messages should
be encoded in MIME scheme and I also wrote one to do this.
They are integrated into Japanese Mailman;
   http://mm.tkikuchi.net/mailman-2.0.7+J2.20011112.tar.gz

May be we should `canonicalize' all the message upon entering 
the Mailman processing pipeline and encode into appropriate charset
when going out through SMTP/NNTP/HTTP.

How about canonicalizing into Unicode, since Japanese and Chinese
must be properly treated ?

--
Tokio


From db@bibsys.no  Mon Nov 12 13:34:15 2001
From: db@bibsys.no (Daniel Buchmann)
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 14:34:15 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] A few bugs and some thoughts
Message-ID: <3BEFCFD7.6FE1C5BF@bibsys.no>

[this is all about latest CVS, MM2.1a3+]

1. A bug:
   If digest-mode is disabled for a list, and a member
   tries to turn it on, a Mailman bug appears:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/home/mailman/scripts/driver", line 96, in run_main
    main()
  File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/options.py", line 456, in main
    mlist.setMemberOption(user, flag, newval)
  File "/home/mailman/Mailman/OldStyleMemberships.py", line 242, in
setMemberOption
    raise Errors.CantDigestError
CantDigestError

   And the same occurs the other way around (if only digest mode
   is enabled, and a member tries to turn it off):

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/home/mailman/scripts/driver", line 96, in run_main
    main()
  File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/options.py", line 456, in main
    mlist.setMemberOption(user, flag, newval)
  File "/home/mailman/Mailman/OldStyleMemberships.py", line 254, in
setMemberOption
    raise Errors.MustDigestError
MustDigestError

   IMHO, I think a user should not be able to choose between normal and
   digest mode if only one of them are available. (The choice shouldn't
   appear at all on their personal memberpage.)


2. Another bug?:
   Held postings for a list are not deleted when the list
   is deleted (e.g. with the rmlist command.)
   A .pck file for each held posting is still around in the
   data/ directory. Maybe this is true for pending subscriptions as well?


3. A feature request:
   It would be really great if the text boxes on the [Sender filters]
   page in addition could accept domain names (or maybe regexps?) instead
   of email address only. Example:
   I have several lists where posters would only come from the .no domain.
   To reduce spam, non-member postings are held for approval.
   If I could set Mailman to auto-approve postings from .no, and
   auto-discard all other postings, the list moderators of these lists
   would be _very_ happy... ;)

4. I'm also experiencing the same problem as totschnig.michael@uqam.ca in
   hist post "mangling of subject header by outlook or mailman".
   I have Mailman 2.1a3+ on two different linux boxes. I have a test list
   with the same name and the same config on both. The problem only
   occurs on one of them! Both Mailman installations are the same version
   (latest CVS) with the same config.
   If anyone has any idea of where I might look for differences in the two
   installations, let me know... maybe I could find out what causes it..
   :)


From bob@nleaudio.com  Mon Nov 12 18:46:08 2001
From: bob@nleaudio.com (Bob Puff@NLE)
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 13:46:08 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Other Bounce issues with 2.0.6
Message-ID: <3BF018F0.818F132C@nleaudio.com>

Hi Gang,

Ok, here's an interesting situation:
On 11/03, hotmail was down for a bit, bouncing messages.  Mailman bounce logs confirm this.  They came back up, and all was well.

On 11/08, 5 days later, they had the same problem - bounced some messages.  Later they fixed the problem.

However, Mailman saw the bounces coming in 5 days later, and did its thing removing the people.  It didn't realize that there were no bounces in between.

How long is the bounce database held?  In other words, what happens if a single bounce happens, then 7 days go by, and another single bounce occurs.  Will it see this and disable the user?  Or does it only look at the 5th day?  What happens on a busy list?  What about a list that gets a post every couple weeks?

Bob


From brandon@roguetrader.com  Mon Nov 12 22:12:48 2001
From: brandon@roguetrader.com (brandon@roguetrader.com)
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 15:12:48 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Problem with lockfiles and time in the future
Message-ID: <20011112151248.A22140@mojo.cold.org>

I am having a very odd situation with lock files.  My entire mailman
system suddenly stopped working a few days ago, and I have tracked it
down to the lockfiles.  In the logs, nothing is able to get a lock.
What I have noticed is the timestamp on the lock file is exactly 10
hours in the future from the current time, when it tried to get the
lock.  This is not a problem with cron or the OS time setting, as I
setup another job in cron exactly like qrunner but through bourne
shell, and it reports time properly, so something from python on down
is causing it to do this oddly.  Does anybody have any idea what this
could be?  Where I can start digging?  I am running mailman 2.0.6 on
Solaris 8, x86.

-Brandon Gillespie

(BTW, please CC me on any response as I am not on the mailing list)


From Dan Mick   Mon Nov 12 22:24:04 2001
From: Dan Mick  (Dan Mick)
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 14:24:04 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Problem with lockfiles and time in the future
Message-ID: <200111122224.OAA18230@utopia.West.Sun.COM>

The lock date is set into the future on purpose, so that eventually
stale locks can be automatically reclaimed.

Some process died holding a lock.  Remove it and drive on if you're
sure that process is dead.

> I am having a very odd situation with lock files.  My entire mailman
> system suddenly stopped working a few days ago, and I have tracked it
> down to the lockfiles.  In the logs, nothing is able to get a lock.
> What I have noticed is the timestamp on the lock file is exactly 10
> hours in the future from the current time, when it tried to get the
> lock.  This is not a problem with cron or the OS time setting, as I
> setup another job in cron exactly like qrunner but through bourne
> shell, and it reports time properly, so something from python on down
> is causing it to do this oddly.  Does anybody have any idea what this
> could be?  Where I can start digging?  I am running mailman 2.0.6 on
> Solaris 8, x86.
> 
> -Brandon Gillespie
> 
> (BTW, please CC me on any response as I am not on the mailing list)
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Mailman-Developers mailing list
> Mailman-Developers@python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers



From brandon@roguetrader.com  Mon Nov 12 22:40:15 2001
From: brandon@roguetrader.com (brandon@roguetrader.com)
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 15:40:15 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Re: Problem with lockfiles and time in the future
Message-ID: <20011112154015.A22389@mojo.cold.org>

Dan Mick said:
> The lock date is set into the future on purpose, so that eventually
> stale locks can be automatically reclaimed.
> 
> Some process died holding a lock.  Remove it and drive on if you're
> sure that process is dead.

I have tried that actually, and have nuked the lockfiles and re-run
the processes, still no go; new locks appear and the processes just
hang again, eventually printing something to the logfile saying that
it cannot get a lock.  I am totally at loss now, if you are saying the
future timestamp is intentional.

-Brandon Gillespie


From cdy@algonet.se  Tue Nov 13 10:31:58 2001
From: cdy@algonet.se (Calle Dybedahl)
Date: 13 Nov 2001 11:31:58 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Re: [Mailman-Announce] RELEASE Mailman 2.0.7
In-Reply-To: <15340.23456.886142.932986@anthem.wooz.org>
References: <15340.23456.886142.932986@anthem.wooz.org>
Message-ID: <86itcfezc1.fsf@tezcatlipoca.algonet.se>

>>>>> "BAW" == Barry A Warsaw  writes:

> I'm releasing Mailman 2.0.7 which fixes two potential, though obscure
> security or denial-of-service attacks, along with a few other minor
> bug fixes.  Details:

Hello. Remember me? I nagged you a few months ago about getting some
code we had written into Mailman. I got the impression that I'd hear
from you or the FSF again regarding giving the copyright to the FSF,
but I haven't heard anything so far. Did the issue fall by the
wayside, or did something go wrong? Is it still any point in giving
you code that was written for 2.0?
-- 
      Calle Dybedahl | UNIX-admin | Telenordia Internet | cdy@algonet.se


From totschnig.michael@uqam.ca  Tue Nov 13 15:34:02 2001
From: totschnig.michael@uqam.ca (totschnig.michael@uqam.ca)
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2001 10:34:02 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Re: mangling of subject header by outlook or  mailman
In-Reply-To: <3BEFCC54.7BD9A756@is.kochi-u.ac.jp> (Tokio Kikuchi's message
 of "Mon, 12 Nov 2001 22:19:16 +0900")
References: <861yjb1jf7.fsf@cmo.uqam.ca> <86y9lccj9x.fsf@cmo.uqam.ca>
 <3BEFCC54.7BD9A756@is.kochi-u.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <86lmhay9at.fsf@cmo.uqam.ca>

Hello,

Tokio Kikuchi  a =E9crit:

>> 3) a user of outlookexpress 5 replies both directly and via the
>> list. the direct reply has the following header:
>>=20
>> Subject: =3D?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_=3D5BTest=3D5D_test_de_deboguage_des_=3D=
E9_et_=3DE8_dans_le_he?=3D
>>         =3D?iso-8859-1?Q?ader_subject?=3D
>>=20
>> which still gets correctly decoded by mail readers.
>
> How other mailers do with this phase of subject ?

I tested pine and gnus:

pine creates:

Subject: Re: [Test] =3D?ISO-8859-1?Q?test_de_deboguage_des_=3DE9_et_=3DE8=
_dans_le
 ?=3D =3D?ISO-8859-1?Q?_header_subject?=3D

which seems delivered unchanged by Mailman:

Subject: Re: [Test] =3D?ISO-8859-1?Q?test_de_deboguage_des_=3DE9_et_=3DE8=
_dans_le
 ?=3D =3D?ISO-8859-1?Q?_header_subject?=3D

gnus creates (if configured to strip list-identifiers) :

Subject: Re: test de deboguage des =3D?iso-8859-1?q?=3DE9?=3D et
 =3D?iso-8859-1?q?=3DE8?=3D dans le header subject

which when delivered by mailman becomes

Subject: [Test] Re: test de deboguage des =3D?iso-8859-1?q?=3DE9?=3D et
 =3D?iso-8859-1?q?=3DE8?=3D dans le header subject

>
> This problem has long been known to Japanese mailing list owners
> and we solved this problem by decoding the MIME header _before_
> adding the list prefix and then re-encoding the subject into MIME.
>
> I wrote a module to convert the incoming Japanese mail into EUC
> while decoding the MIME headers. All the outgoing messages should
> be encoded in MIME scheme and I also wrote one to do this.
> They are integrated into Japanese Mailman;
>    http://mm.tkikuchi.net/mailman-2.0.7+J2.20011112.tar.gz

this seems the right thing to do also for latin-1 or other encodings ,
is there any chance of getting it integrated to the mainstream
mailman? But I have no idea of the complexity of the task.

Michael



From jmasterson@modwest.com  Tue Nov 13 17:46:05 2001
From: jmasterson@modwest.com (John Masterson)
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2001 09:46:05 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] hanging subscribe requests
Message-ID: <00c801c16c6b$11c63f30$8100000a@magnafix>

Hello,

I've posted my problem twice to mail-users to no avail. I apologize in
advance if this is not the appropriate forum for this report.

Running Redhat 6.2, Python 2.1.1, Mailman 2.0.6, Apache 1.3.20

The Mailman web interface mostly works fine. However, when someone attempts
to subscribe to a list, the page hangs and spins and results in "Document
contains no data" (Netscape) or "Cannot find server/DNS error" (IE).

This generally starts 1-3 python subscribe processes which persist for 30
seconds or so and then fire off the confirmation of (1-3) subscription
notice(s).

This behavior can be experienced here:

http://www.montananorml.org/mailman/listinfo/mtnorml-list

Thanks for any tips. We have recompiled, reinstalled, etc, several times.


--
John Masterson
Modwest
Powerful, Affordable Web Hosting
http://www.modwest.com
406.541.4678



From che@debian.org  Wed Nov 14 10:21:43 2001
From: che@debian.org (Ben Gertzfield)
Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 19:21:43 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] [PATCH] Header q-p/base64 RFC 2047 encoding for email module
Message-ID: <87u1vxr6tk.fsf@nausicaa.interq.or.jp>

The following patch to the email module implements the RFC
2047-specified Base64 and quoted-printable (called "B" and "Q"
encoding by the RFC) for header-safe encoding of 8-bit strings, for
From:, To:, Subject:, and other fields.  

It includes charset information within the encoded strings themselves,
which, along with the special line-wrapping algorithm needed for B and
Q encoding, make this a very useful general feature for
internationalized Python email programs.

Most MIME-aware mail readers in use today understand the RFC 2047
convention, and in the East Asian world, it's 100% necessary to send
subject and address fields in Base64 encoding.

Mailman needs this functionality in order to send out localized
emails from the virgin queue; without it, it's very possible that 
8-bit characters will be blindly placed into the Subject: and To:
fields.  This also allows localized List-Id fields, as a bonus!

This patch adds the following functions to email.Utils:

encode_address(real_name, address, charset="iso-8859-1", encoding=QP):
    MIME-encode a header field intended for an address (from, to, cc, etc.)

encode_header(header, charset="iso-8859-1", encoding=QP):
    MIME-encode a general email header field (eg. Subject).

encode_header_chunks(header_chunks):
    MIME-encode a header with many different charsets and/or encodings.

It also adds the following support functions to email.Encoders.  

header_qencode(header, charset="iso-8859-1", maxlinelen=75):
    Encode a header line with quoted-printable (like) encoding.

header_bencode(header, charset, maxlinelen=75):
    Encode a header line with Base64 encoding and a charset specification.

I needed to re-implement the quoted-printable algorithm in
header_qincode because the "Q" encoding specified by RFC 2045 is
different in a few key areas from the one implemented in quopri.py,
and the line-wrapping at 75 characters got too hairy with just
quopri.py.

Patch follows, against email 0.95. (Sorry, I tried CVS, but I didn't
want to install Python 2.2 beta just yet.)

I will work on integrating this into Mailman tomorrow.

diff -ruN email.orig/Encoders.py email/Encoders.py
--- email.orig/Encoders.py	Tue Oct  2 04:29:38 2001
+++ email/Encoders.py	Wed Nov 14 19:07:24 2001
@@ -6,8 +6,10 @@
 
 import base64
 import quopri
+from binascii import b2a_base64
 from cStringIO import StringIO
 
+CRLFSPACE = "\015\012 "
 
 
 # Helpers
@@ -24,6 +26,15 @@
         return value[:-1]
     return value
 
+def _max_append(list, str, maxlen):
+    if len(list) == 0:
+        list.append(str)
+        return
+    
+    if len(list[-1] + str) < maxlen:
+        list[-1] += str
+    else:
+        list.append(str)
 
 def _bencode(s):
     # We can't quite use base64.encodestring() since it tacks on a "courtesy
@@ -78,3 +89,91 @@
 
 def encode_noop(msg):
     """Do nothing."""
+
+
+def header_qencode(header, charset="iso-8859-1", maxlinelen=75):
+    """Encode a header line with quoted-printable (like) encoding.
+
+    Defined in RFC 2045, this "Q" encoding is similar to
+    quoted-printable, but used specifically for email header fields to
+    allow charsets with mostly 7 bit characters (and some 8 bit) to
+    remain more or less readable in non-RFC 2045 aware mail clients.    
+
+    The resulting string will be in the form:
+
+    "=?charset?q?I_f=E2rt_in_your_g=E8n=E8ral_dire=E7tion?=\r\n
+      =?charset?q?Silly_=C8nglish_Kn=EEghts?="
+
+    with each line wrapped safely at, at most, maxlinelen characters.
+    It is safe to use verbatim in any email header field, as the
+    wrapping is performed in a quoted-printable aware way and each
+    linefeed is a \r\n.
+
+    charset defaults to "iso-8859-1", and maxlinelen defaults to 75
+    characters.
+    """
+    quoted = []
+
+    # =? plus ?q? plus ?= is 7 characters
+    maxlen = maxlinelen - len(charset) - 7
+    
+    for c in header:
+        # Space may be represented as _ instead of =20 for readability
+        if c == ' ':
+            _max_append(quoted, "_", maxlen)
+        # These characters can be included verbatim
+        elif ((c >= 'a' and c <= 'z') or (c >= 'A' and c <= 'Z') or
+              (c >= '0' and c <= '9') or (c in ('!', '*', '+', '-', '/'))):
+            _max_append(quoted, c, maxlen)
+        # Otherwise, replace with hex value like =E2
+        else:
+            _max_append(quoted, "=%02X" % (ord(c)), maxlen)
+
+    encoded = ""
+
+    for q in quoted:
+        # Any chunk past the fir7st must start with "\r\n "
+        if len(encoded) > 0:
+            encoded += CRLFSPACE
+        encoded += "=?%s?q?%s?=" % (charset, q)
+
+    return encoded
+
+def header_bencode(header, charset, maxlinelen=75):
+    """Encode a header line with Base64 encoding and a charset specification.
+    
+    Defined in RFC 2045, this Base64 encoding is identical to normal
+    Base64 encoding, except that each line must be intelligently
+    wrapped (respecting the Base64 encoding), and subsequent lines must
+    start with a space.  
+
+    The resulting string will be in the form:
+
+    "=?charset?b?WW/5ciBtYXp66XLrIHf8eiBhIGhhbXBzdGHuciBBIFlv+XIgbWF6euly?=\r\n
+      =?charset?b?6yB3/HogYSBoYW1wc3Rh7nIgQkMgWW/5ciBtYXp66XLrIHf8eiBhIGhh?="
+      
+    with each line wrapped at, at most, maxlinelen characters. It is
+    safe to use verbatim in any email header field, as the wrapping is
+    performed in a quoted-printable aware way and each linefeed is a
+    \r\n.
+
+    charset defaults to "iso-8859-1", and maxlinelen defaults to 75
+    characters.
+    """
+    base64ed = []
+
+    maxlen = ((maxlinelen - len(charset) - 7) / 4) * 3
+    num_lines = (len(header) / maxlen) + 1
+
+    for i in xrange(0, num_lines):
+        base64ed.append(b2a_base64(header[i*maxlen:(i+1)*maxlen]))
+
+    encoded = ""
+
+    for b in base64ed:
+        if len(encoded) > 0:
+            encoded += CRLFSPACE
+        # We ignore the last character of each line, which is a \n.
+        encoded += "=?%s?b?%s?=" % (charset, b[:-1])
+
+    return encoded
diff -ruN email.orig/Utils.py email/Utils.py
--- email.orig/Utils.py	Sat Nov 10 02:07:44 2001
+++ email/Utils.py	Wed Nov 14 19:16:00 2001
@@ -17,11 +17,16 @@
 import base64
 
 # Intrapackage imports
-from Encoders import _bencode, _qencode
+from Encoders import _bencode, _qencode, header_qencode, header_bencode
 
 COMMASPACE = ', '
 UEMPTYSTRING = u''
 
+CRLFSPACE = "\015\012 "
+
+# Flags for types of header encodings
+QP     = 1  # Quoted-Printable
+BASE64 = 2  # Base64
 
 
 # Helpers
@@ -56,6 +61,16 @@
         return value[:-1]
     return value
 
+def _chunk_append(chunks, header, goodlinelen=75):
+    if len(chunks) == 0:
+        chunks.append(header)
+        return
+    
+    for chunk in header.split(CRLFSPACE):
+        if len(chunks[-1] + chunk) < goodlinelen:
+            chunks[-1] += " " + chunk
+        else:
+            chunks.append(chunk)
 
 
 def getaddresses(fieldvalues):
@@ -156,3 +171,90 @@
          'Jul', 'Aug', 'Sep', 'Oct', 'Nov', 'Dec'][now[1] - 1],
         now[0], now[3], now[4], now[5],
         zone)
+
+def encode_address(real_name, address, charset="iso-8859-1", encoding=QP):
+    """MIME-encode a header field intended for an address (from, to, cc, etc.)
+
+    Given an 8-bit string containing a real name, an email address,
+    and optionally the real name's character set, and the encoding
+    you wish to use with it, return a 7-bit MIME-encoded string
+    suitable for use in a From, To, Cc, or other email header
+    field.
+    
+    The encoding can be email.Utils.QP (quoted-printable, for
+    ASCII-like character sets like iso-8859-1), email.Utils.BASE64
+    (Base64, for non-ASCII like character sets like KOI8-R and
+    iso-2022-jp), or None (no encoding).
+    
+    The charset defaults to "iso-8859-1", and the encoding defaults
+    to email.Utils.QP.
+    
+    The resulting string will be in the format:
+    
+    "=?charset?q?Kevin_Phillips_B=F6ng?= "
+    
+    and can be included verbatim in an email header field.  Even
+    very long addresses are handled properly with this method:
+    
+    "=?charset?q?T=E4rquin_Fintimlinbinhinbimlim_Bus_St=F6p_Poontang_Poont?=\r\n
+      =?charset?q?ang_Ol=E9_Biscuit-Barrel?=\r\n
+      "
+    """       
+    
+    return encode_header_chunks([ [real_name, charset, encoding],
+                                  ["<%s>" % address, None, None] ])
+
+def encode_header(header, charset="iso-8859-1", encoding=QP):
+    """MIME-encode a general email header field (eg. Subject).
+
+    Given an 8-bit header string, and optionally its charset and the
+    encoding you wish to use, return a 7-bit MIME-encoded string
+    suitable for use in a general email header (but most useful for
+    the Subject: line).
+
+    The encoding can be email.Utils.QP (quoted-printable, for
+    ASCII-like character sets like iso-8859-1), email.Utils.BASE64
+    (Base64, for non-ASCII like character sets like KOI8-R and
+    iso-2022-jp), or None (no encoding).
+    
+    The charset defaults to "iso-8859-1", and the encoding defaults
+    to email.Utils.QP.
+    """
+    return encode_header_chunks([[header, charset, encoding]])
+
+def encode_header_chunks(header_chunks):
+    """MIME-encode a header with many different charsets and/or encodings.
+
+    Given a list of triplets [ [string, charset, encoding] ], return a
+    MIME-encoded string suitable for use in a header field.  Each triplet
+    may have different charsets and/or encodings, and the resulting header
+    will accurately reflect each setting.
+
+    Each encoding can be email.Utils.QP (quoted-printable, for
+    ASCII-like character sets like iso-8859-1), email.Utils.BASE64
+    (Base64, for non-ASCII like character sets like KOI8-R and
+    iso-2022-jp), or None (no encoding).
+    
+    Each triplet will be represented on a separate line; the resulting
+    string will be in the format:
+
+    "=?charset1?q?Mar=EDa_Gonz=E1lez_Alonso?=\r\n
+      =?charset2?b?SvxyZ2VuIEL2aW5n?="
+    """
+    chunks = []
+    
+    for header, charset, encoding in header_chunks:
+        encoded = ""
+        encoding_char = ""
+
+        if encoding is None:
+            _chunk_append(chunks, header)
+        else:
+            if encoding is QP:
+                _chunk_append(chunks, header_qencode(header, charset))
+                    
+            elif encoding is BASE64:
+                _chunk_append(chunks, header_bencode(header, charset))
+
+    return CRLFSPACE.join(chunks)
+

-- 
Brought to you by the letters A and H and the number 10.
"Wuzzle means to mix."
Debian GNU/Linux maintainer of Gimp and Nethack -- http://www.debian.org/


From joel@webbgroup.net  Wed Nov 14 14:19:58 2001
From: joel@webbgroup.net (Joel Webb)
Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 14:19:58 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Pros Only: Archive problem with 2.0.7
Message-ID: <200111141419.fAEEJx907682@mail.webbgroup.net>

I am trying to get the archive html page to work, however the reason it doesn't work
is because it is looking for the raw html file.

Inside the Defaults it is set at:
Archive_to_Mbox=2 

which is archiving both Mbox and html archiving. Is this a bug, or do I not have
something setup correctly?
-- 
Respectfully,

Joel Webb
WebbGroup Network Systems LLC
www.webbgroup.net
336.841.7241


From roy@lamrim.com  Fri Nov 16 02:48:33 2001
From: roy@lamrim.com (Roy Harvey)
Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 18:48:33 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Re: [Mailman-Announce] RELEASE Mailman 2.0.7
In-Reply-To: <15340.23456.886142.932986@anthem.wooz.org>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20011115184833.0081aa90@lamrim.com>

Barry --

Thanks for the update, I haven't pulled the newest version, but wanted to
alert you to a possible bug:

	List-Help: 
	List-Post: 
	List-Subscribe: ,
	
	List-Id: Lam Rim Radio Mailing List 
	List-Unsubscribe: ,
	
	List-Archive: 

Please note the last line URL with the double "/" after private.

Thanks again for the great software!

Roy

At 05:41 PM 11/9/01 -0500, you wrote:
>
>Hi all,
>
>I'm releasing Mailman 2.0.7 which fixes two potential, though obscure
>security or denial-of-service attacks, along with a few other minor
>bug fixes.  Details:
>
>- If you are running Python 1.5.2, it is possible for someone to
>  carefully craft some cookie data, and then trick Mailman into
>  accepting that data, that will crash your Python interpreter.
>
>  If you are not running Python 1.5.2, you should be invulnerable to
>  the crash, however it is still possible for someone to even more
>  carefully craft some cookie data that could cause arbitrary class
>  constructors to be executed on the server.
>
>  While I believe it is difficult to exploit this, Mailman 2.0.7
>  closes this hole completely, by disabling the Cookie.py module's
>  default unpickling of cookie data.
>
>- It is possible that Mailman's bounce handler could receive a bounce
>  message that looked like a DSN report, but was incorrectly
>  formatted.  Under Mailman 2.0.6's bounce detector, you would get a
>  traceback for a message that would never be removed from the queue,
>  thus potentially wedging your qrunner until the offending message
>  was manually deleted.
>
>  Mailman 2.0.7 fixes the DSN.py bounce detector.
>
>There are a few other useful bug fixes in this release, described in
>the NEWS excerpt below.  I recommend anybody running a version of
>Mailman up to, and including 2.0.6 to upgrade to 2.0.7.
>
>I'm releasing this version only as a tarball -- no patch file is
>provided at this time.  As of this moment, only the SourceForge site
>is up-to-date, although I expect www.list.org and www.gnu.org to
>follow soon.  The release information is available on SourceForge at:
>
>    http://sourceforge.net/project/shownotes.php?release_id=60758
>
>and the file can be downloaded from:
>
>
http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=103&release_id=60758
>
>See also:
>
>    http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman
>    http://www.list.org
>    http://mailman.sf.net
>
>Cheers
>-Barry
>
>-------------------- snip snip --------------------
>2.0.7 (09-Nov-2001)
>
>    Security fixes:
>
>    - Closed a hole in cookie management whereby some carefully
>      crafted untrusted cookie data could crash Mailman if used with
>      Python 1.5.2, or cause some unintended class constructors to be
>      run on the server.
>
>    - In the DSN.py bounce handler, a message that was DSN-like, but
>      which was missing a "report-type" parameter could cause a
>      non-deletable bounce message to crash Mailman forever, requiring
>      manual intervention.
>
>    Bug fixes:
>
>    - Stray % signs in headers and footers could cause crashes.  Now
>      they'll just cause an [INVALID HEADER] or [INVALID FOOTER]
>      string to be added.
>
>    - The mail->news gateway has been made more robust in the face of
>      duplicate headers, and reserved headers that some news servers
>      reject.  If the message is still rejected, it is saved in
>      $prefix/nntp instead of discarded.
>
>    - Hand-crafted invalid chunk number in membership management
>      display could cause a traceback.
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Mailman-announce mailing list
>Mailman-announce@python.org
>http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-announce
>
>


From bxb1280@yahoo.com  Sun Nov 18 07:48:02 2001
From: bxb1280@yahoo.com (bxb1280)
Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2001 15:48:2 +0800
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] hi
Message-ID: 

vtkusers=A3=AChi=A3=A1

Has anyone sucessfully use vtk to render to read, and render=
 DICOM3 file
format? Please advise on how could it be done?

                    

            bxb1280
            bxb1280@yahoo.com


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com



From bxb1280@sina.com  Sun Nov 18 07:35:07 2001
From: bxb1280@sina.com (bxb)
Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2001 15:35:07 +0800
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Dear all
Message-ID: <000a01c17003$8d38b080$1c00a8c0@168.0.1>

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C17046.99E18580
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="gb2312"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


Has anyone sucessfully use vtk to render to read, and render DICOM3 file
format? Please advise on how could it be done?

------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C17046.99E18580
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="gb2312"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable









     
    

    Has anyone sucessfully use vtk to render to read, =
and render=20
DICOM3 file
    format? Please advise on how could it be=20
done?
    

------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C17046.99E18580--




From che@debian.org  Mon Nov 19 11:40:11 2001
From: che@debian.org (Ben Gertzfield)
Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 20:40:11 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] [PATCH] Proof-of-concept: proper MIME i18n mails from Mailman
Message-ID: <87wv0nhtus.fsf@nausicaa.interq.or.jp>

I've done it!  Finally, I got to finish the work I had intended on
doing for so long: adding proper MIMEification of i18n mails produced
within Mailman.  This works for both the subject and the body of any
mail produced from the UserNotification module.

This code is split up into a patch to the email module, including
a new Charset class to maintain details on each character set's
characteristics in the email world, and a patch to Mailman to use
the new functionality.  This email includes the first patch, to
the email module.  I will send a separate email with the patch
to Mailman to use this new code.

This is not the final version of the patch, but I'm really excited
that I finally got even multibyte character sets like Japanese working
properly that I wanted to post my progress.  

Right now, any mail generated by Mailman will be internationalized
properly, including encoding the header and body with Quoted-Printable
or Base64 as appropriate.  

I tested it by setting DEFAULT_SERVER_LANGUAGE = 'ja' in 
mm_cfg.py and running 'newlist', and it sent out the following:

Received: from localhost (HELO nausicaa.interq.or.jp) (127.0.0.1)
  by localhost with SMTP; 19 Nov 2001 10:03:27 -0000
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-2022-jp"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Subject: =?iso-2022-jp?b?GyRCJCIkSiQ/JE4/NyQ3JCQlYSE8JWobKEI=?=
 =?iso-2022-jp?b?GyRCJXMlMCVqJTklSBsoQjogbGFuZ3Rlc3Q0?=
From: mailman-admin@nausicaa.interq.or.jp
To: ben@gmo.jp
Message-ID: 
Sender: langtest4-admin@nausicaa.interq.or.jp
Errors-To: langtest4-admin@nausicaa.interq.or.jp
X-BeenThere: langtest4@nausicaa.interq.or.jp
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1a3+
Precedence: bulk

(snip rest of headers and properly encoded Japanese body)

You'll notice that the Subject line has been converted from the EUC-JP
encoding used in Mailman's Japanese localization to ISO-2022-JP, used
in emails.  

It's also been split *SAFELY* on the magic 76 character boundry -- we
have to make sure we split on a *CHARACTER* boundary, not a byte
boundary, when splitting Japanese strings, as multibyte characters
will get messed up if they're split between bytes. Also, the
MIME-Version, Content-Type, and CTE headers are added correctly.

The body was also encoded correctly in ISO-2022-JP, but I didn't want
to include it and confuse other folks' possibly-not-Japanese-aware
mail readers.

I'm using the wonderful Japanese unicode codec for python from
http://pseudo.grad.sccs.chukyo-u.ac.jp/~kajiyama/python/ to convert to
and from EUC-JP/ISO-2022-JP, through Unicode.  It works splendidly,
and is the perfect solution to split multibyte character sets on
character (not byte) boundaries for wrapping long header lines.

My code deals with ASCII-like character sets by using
quoted-printable for them, but I noticed that a few of the
translations wuss out from using 8-bit characters!  The Spanish
translation uses HTML escapes, which makes it useless for emails:

[ben@nausicaa:~/src/mailman/mailman/messages/es/LC_MESSAGES]% grep eacute mailman.po
"        también puede crear una lista de\n"
"    podría hacer que otras pantallas estén desincronizadas. \n"
"    Asegurese de recargar cualquier otra página que esté "
"También puede "

(snip)

These should be looked at.

This code is mostly-tested, but I had to change a *lot* of
UserNotification calls, so I'm not sure if I guessed the lang
parameter right in all cases.  

I could get the language detection code working great when I ran
"newlist" from the command line, but when I tried to use the CGI
interface, I got a bounce in the logs but no message anywhere of a
traceback, so it needs more debugging.

Below is the patch to email-0.95, to enable the charset related
code we need to get Mailman to do all this cool stuff.  The next
email will include the Mailman patch to use this oh-so-required
feature.

diff -ruN email.orig/Charset.py email/Charset.py
--- email.orig/Charset.py	Thu Jan  1 09:00:00 1970
+++ email/Charset.py	Mon Nov 19 19:20:49 2001
@@ -0,0 +1,165 @@
+# Copyright (C) 2001 Python Software Foundation
+# Author: che@debian.org (Ben Gertzfield)
+
+import types
+import codecs
+
+# Flags for types of header encodings
+QP     = 1  # Quoted-Printable
+BASE64 = 2  # Base64
+
+class Charset:
+    """Map charsets to their email characteristics.
+
+    This module deals with the nitty-gritty of email character set
+    internals, and has a bit of "do-what-I-mean" functionality.  Given
+    an character set, it will do its best to provide information
+    on how to use that character set in an email.
+    
+    Certain character sets must be encoded with quoted-printable or
+    Base64 when used in email headers or bodies, and certain character
+    sets must be converted outright, and are not allowed in email.
+    Instances of this module expose the following information about
+    a character set:
+
+    input_charset: The initial character set specified.  Common aliases
+      are converted to their "official" email names (like latin_1 to
+      iso-8859-1).
+
+    header_encoding: If the character set must be encoded before using
+      it in an email header, set to Charset.QP (for quoted- printable)
+      or Charset.BASE64 (for base64 encoding).  Otherwise, it will be
+      None.
+
+    body_encoding: Same as header_encoding,  but for the email's body.
+
+    output_charset: Some character sets must be converted before using
+      them in email headers or bodies.  If the input_charset is one
+      of them, set to another character set.
+
+    input_codec: The name of the Python codec used to convert the
+      input_charset to Unicode.
+
+    output_codec: The name of the Python codec used to convert Unicode
+      to the output_charset.
+    """
+    charset_map = {
+        # input       header enc  body enc output conv
+        'iso-8859-1': [QP,        QP,      None], 
+        'iso-8859-2': [QP,        QP,      None],
+        'us-ascii':   [None,      None,    None],
+        'big5':       [BASE64,    BASE64,  None],
+        'gb2312':     [BASE64,    BASE64,  None], 
+        'euc-jp':     [BASE64,    None,    'iso-2022-jp'],
+        'shift_jis':  [BASE64,    None,    'iso-2022-jp'],
+        'iso-2022-jp':[BASE64,    None,    None],
+        'koi8-r':     [BASE64,    BASE64,  None],
+        }
+
+    # Aliases for other commonly-used names for character sets.  Map
+    # them to the real ones used in email.
+    alias_map = {
+        'latin_1': 'iso-8859-1',
+        'ascii': 'us-ascii'
+        }
+    
+    # Map charsets to their unicode codec strings.
+    # Note that the japanese examples included below do not (yet) come with
+    # Python!  They are available from:
+    # http://pseudo.grad.sccs.chukyo-u.ac.jp/~kajiyama/python/
+    
+    unicode_map = {
+        'euc-jp': 'japanese.euc-jp',
+        'iso-2022-jp': 'japanese.iso-2022-jp',
+        'shift_jis': 'japanese.shift_jis',
+        }
+
+
+    def __init__(self, input_charset='iso-8859-1', header_encoding=None,
+                 body_encoding=None, output_charset=None, input_codec=None,
+                 output_codec=None):
+        if self.alias_map.has_key(input_charset):
+            self.input_charset = input_charset = self.alias_map[input_charset]
+        else:
+            self.input_charset = input_charset
+
+        # We can try to guess which encoding and conversion to use by the
+        # charset_map dictionary.  Try that first, but let the user
+        # override it.
+        if self.charset_map.has_key(input_charset):
+            self.header_encoding = (header_encoding or
+                                    self.charset_map[input_charset][0])
+            self.body_encoding = (body_encoding or
+                                  self.charset_map[input_charset][1])
+            self.output_charset = (output_charset or
+                                   self.charset_map[input_charset][2] or
+                                   input_charset)
+            
+            if self.alias_map.has_key(self.output_charset):
+                self.output_charset = output_charset = self.alias_map[output_charset]
+            if self.output_charset is not None:
+                if self.unicode_map.has_key(self.input_charset):
+                    self.input_codec = (input_codec or
+                                        self.unicode_map[self.input_charset])
+                else:
+                    self.input_codec = input_codec
+                if self.unicode_map.has_key(self.output_charset):
+                    self.output_codec = (output_codec or
+                                         self.unicode_map[self.output_charset] or
+                                         self.input_codec)
+                else:
+                    self.output_codec = output_codec or self.input_codec
+            else:
+                self.input_codec = self.output_codec = None
+        # Otherwise, just go with what the user said.
+        else:
+            self.header_encoding = header_encoding
+            self.body_encoding = body_encoding
+            self.output_charset = output_charset
+            self.input_codec = input_codec
+            self.output_codec = output_codec or self.input_codec
+
+    def to_output(self, str):
+        """Convert the string from the input_codec to the output_codec."""
+        if self.input_codec <> self.output_codec:
+            return unicode(str, self.input_codec).encode(self.output_codec)
+        else:
+            return str
+
+    def to_splittable(self, str):
+        """Convert a possibly multibyte string to a safely splittable format.
+
+        Uses the input_codec to try and convert the string to Unicode, so
+        it can be safely split on character boundaries (even for double-byte
+        characters).
+
+        Returns the string untouched if it doesn't know how to convert it
+        to Unicode with the input_charset.
+
+        Will raise ValueError if the input_codec is not installed on the system.
+        """
+        if type(str) is types.UnicodeType:
+            return str
+        
+        if self.input_codec is not None:
+            return unicode(str, self.input_codec)
+        else:
+            return str
+
+    def from_splittable(self, uni_string):
+        """Convert a splittable string back into an encoded string.
+
+        Uses the output_codec to try and convert the string from Unicode
+        back into its output encoded format.  Returns the string as-is if
+        it is not Unicode, or if it could not be encoded from Unicode.
+
+        Will raise ValueError if the output_codec is not installed on the system.
+        """
+        if type(uni_string) is not types.UnicodeType:
+            return uni_string
+        
+        if self.output_codec is not None:
+            return uni_string.encode(self.output_codec)
+        else:
+            return uni_string
+
diff -ruN email.orig/Encoders.py email/Encoders.py
--- email.orig/Encoders.py	Tue Oct  2 04:29:38 2001
+++ email/Encoders.py	Mon Nov 19 20:36:53 2001
@@ -6,8 +6,13 @@
 
 import base64
 import quopri
+import re
+from binascii import b2a_base64
 from cStringIO import StringIO
 
+from Charset import Charset, QP, BASE64
+
+CRLFSPACE = "\015\012 "
 
 
 # Helpers
@@ -24,6 +29,15 @@
         return value[:-1]
     return value
 
+def _max_append(list, str, maxlen):
+    if len(list) == 0:
+        list.append(str)
+        return
+    
+    if len(list[-1] + str) < maxlen:
+        list[-1] += str
+    else:
+        list.append(str)
 
 def _bencode(s):
     # We can't quite use base64.encodestring() since it tacks on a "courtesy
@@ -36,6 +50,17 @@
         return value[:-1]
     return value
 
+def _chunk_append(chunks, header, goodlinelen=75):
+    if len(chunks) == 0:
+        chunks.append(header)
+        return
+    
+    for chunk in header.split(CRLFSPACE):
+        if len(chunks[-1] + chunk) < goodlinelen:
+            chunks[-1] += " " + chunk
+        else:
+            chunks.append(chunk)
+
 
 
 def encode_base64(msg):
@@ -78,3 +103,276 @@
 
 def encode_noop(msg):
     """Do nothing."""
+
+
+def qencode_len(str):
+    """Return the length of str when it is encoded with header q-p."""
+    count = 0
+    
+    for c in str:
+        if ((c >= 'a' and c <= 'z') or (c >= 'A' and c <= 'Z') or
+            (c >= '0' and c <= '9') or (c in ('!', '*', '+', '-', '/', ' '))):
+            count += 1
+        else:
+            count += 3
+
+    return count
+
+def bencode_len(str):
+    """Return the length of str when it is encoded with base64."""
+    return (len(str) / 3) * 4
+
+def header_qencode(header, charset="iso-8859-1", maxlinelen=75):
+    """Encode a header line with quoted-printable (like) encoding.
+
+    Defined in RFC 2045, this "Q" encoding is similar to
+    quoted-printable, but used specifically for email header fields to
+    allow charsets with mostly 7 bit characters (and some 8 bit) to
+    remain more or less readable in non-RFC 2045 aware mail clients.    
+
+    The resulting string will be in the form:
+
+    "=?charset?q?I_f=E2rt_in_your_g=E8n=E8ral_dire=E7tion?=\r\n
+      =?charset?q?Silly_=C8nglish_Kn=EEghts?="
+
+    with each line wrapped safely at, at most, maxlinelen characters.
+    It is safe to use verbatim in any email header field, as the
+    wrapping is performed in a quoted-printable aware way and each
+    linefeed is a \r\n.
+
+    charset defaults to "iso-8859-1", and maxlinelen defaults to 75
+    characters.
+    """
+    quoted = []
+
+    # =? plus ?q? plus ?= is 7 characters
+    maxlen = maxlinelen - len(charset) - 7
+    
+    for c in header:
+        # Space may be represented as _ instead of =20 for readability
+        if c == ' ':
+            _max_append(quoted, "_", maxlen)
+        # These characters can be included verbatim
+        elif ((c >= 'a' and c <= 'z') or (c >= 'A' and c <= 'Z') or
+              (c >= '0' and c <= '9') or (c in ('!', '*', '+', '-', '/'))):
+            _max_append(quoted, c, maxlen)
+        # Otherwise, replace with hex value like =E2
+        else:
+            _max_append(quoted, "=%02X" % (ord(c)), maxlen)
+
+    encoded = ""
+
+    for q in quoted:
+        # Any chunk past the fir7st must start with "\r\n "
+        if len(encoded) > 0:
+            encoded += CRLFSPACE
+        encoded += "=?%s?q?%s?=" % (charset, q)
+
+    return encoded
+
+def header_bencode(header, charset="iso-8859-1", maxlinelen=75):
+    """Encode a header line with Base64 encoding and a charset specification.
+    
+    Defined in RFC 2045, this Base64 encoding is identical to normal
+    Base64 encoding, except that each line must be intelligently
+    wrapped (respecting the Base64 encoding), and subsequent lines must
+    start with a space.  
+
+    The resulting string will be in the form:
+
+    "=?charset?b?WW/5ciBtYXp66XLrIHf8eiBhIGhhbXBzdGHuciBBIFlv+XIgbWF6euly?=\r\n
+      =?charset?b?6yB3/HogYSBoYW1wc3Rh7nIgQkMgWW/5ciBtYXp66XLrIHf8eiBhIGhh?="
+      
+    with each line wrapped at, at most, maxlinelen characters. It is
+    safe to use verbatim in any email header field, as the wrapping is
+    performed in a quoted-printable aware way and each linefeed is a
+    \r\n.
+
+    charset defaults to "iso-8859-1", and maxlinelen defaults to 75
+    characters.
+    """
+
+    if len(header) == 0:
+        return header
+    
+    base64ed = []
+
+    max_encoded = maxlinelen - len(charset) - 7
+    max_unencoded = bencode_len(header)
+
+    for i in xrange(0, len(charset), max_unencoded):
+        base64ed.append(b2a_base64(header[i:i+max_unencoded]))
+
+    encoded = ""
+
+    for b in base64ed:
+        if len(encoded) > 0:
+            encoded += CRLFSPACE
+        # We ignore the last character of each line if it is a \n.
+        if b[-1] == '\n':
+            b = b[:-1]
+
+        encoded += "=?%s?b?%s?=" % (charset, b)
+
+    return encoded
+
+def encode_header_chunks(header_chunks):
+    """MIME-encode a header with many different charsets and/or encodings.
+
+    Given a list of pairs [string, charset], return a MIME-encoded
+    string suitable for use in a header field.  Each triplet may have
+    different charsets and/or encodings, and the resulting header will
+    accurately reflect each setting.
+
+    Each encoding can be email.Utils.QP (quoted-printable, for
+    ASCII-like character sets like iso-8859-1), email.Utils.BASE64
+    (Base64, for non-ASCII like character sets like KOI8-R and
+    iso-2022-jp), or None (no encoding).
+    
+    Each triplet will be represented on a separate line; the resulting
+    string will be in the format:
+
+    "=?charset1?q?Mar=EDa_Gonz=E1lez_Alonso?=\r\n
+      =?charset2?b?SvxyZ2VuIEL2aW5n?="
+    """
+    chunks = []
+
+    for header, charset in header_chunks:
+        if charset is None or charset.header_encoding is None:
+            _chunk_append(chunks, header)
+        else:
+            if charset.header_encoding is QP:
+                _chunk_append(chunks,
+                              header_qencode(header, charset.output_charset))
+                    
+            elif charset.header_encoding is BASE64:
+                _chunk_append(chunks,
+                              header_bencode(header, charset.output_charset))
+
+    return CRLFSPACE.join(chunks)
+
+def encode_address(real_name, address, charset=Charset("iso-8859-1")):
+    """MIME-encode a header field intended for an address (from, to, cc, etc.)
+    
+    Given a real name, an email address, and optionally the real
+    name's character set (as a Charset object, defaulting to
+    iso-8859-1), return a 7-bit MIME-encoded string suitable for use
+    in a From, To, Cc, or other email header field.
+    
+    The resulting string will be in the format:
+    
+    "=?charset?q?Kevin_Phillips_B=F6ng?= "
+    
+    and can be included verbatim in an email header field.  Even
+    very long addresses are handled properly with this method:
+    
+    "=?charset?q?T=E4rquin_Fintimlinbinhinbimlim_Bus_St=F6p_Poontang_Poont?=\r\n
+      =?charset?q?ang_Ol=E9_Biscuit-Barrel?=\r\n
+      "
+    """       
+
+    if not real_name:
+        return address
+
+    header_chunks = split_encode(real_name, charset)
+    header_chunks.append(["<%s>" % address, Charset("us-ascii")])
+    return encode_header_chunks(header_chunks)
+
+def encode_header(header, charset=Charset("iso-8859-1")):
+    """Encode a message header, possibly converting charset and encoding.
+
+    There are many issues involved in converting a given string for
+    use in an email header.  Only certain character sets are readable
+    in most email clients, and as header strings can only contain a
+    subset of 7-bit ASCII, care must be taken to properly convert and
+    encode (with Base64 or quoted-printable) header strings.  In
+    addition, there is a 75-character length limit on any given
+    encoded header field, so line-wrapping must be performed, even
+    with double-byte character sets.
+
+    This function, given a header string and its character set, will
+    do its best to convert the string to the correct character set
+    used in email, and encode and line wrap it safely with the
+    appropriate scheme for that character set.  If the given
+    input_charset is not known or an error occurs during conversion,
+    this function will return the header untouched.
+    """
+
+    if not header:
+        return header
+
+    header = fix_eols(header)
+
+    header_chunks = header_split(header, charset)
+
+    return encode_header_chunks(header_chunks)
+
+def encode_body(body, charset=Charset("iso-8859-1")):
+    """Encode a message body, possibly converting charset and encoding."""
+
+    if not body:
+        return body
+
+    if charset.body_encoding is QP:
+        infp = StringIO(charset.to_output(body))
+        outfp = StringIO()
+        quopri.encode(infp, outfp, quotetabs=0)
+        return fix_eols(outfp.getvalue())
+    elif charset.body_encoding is BASE64:
+        encoded = ""
+        for s in body_base64_split(body, charset):
+            encoded += b2a_base64(s)
+        return s
+    else:
+        return charset.to_output(body)
+    
+def body_base64_split(body, charset, maxlinelen=75):
+    """Split up a body safely, respecting encoding and mulibyte charsets."""
+
+    splittable = charset.to_splittable(body)
+    encoded = charset.from_splittable(splittable)
+
+    length = bencode_len(encoded)
+
+    if length < maxlinelen:
+        return [encoded]
+    else:
+        # divide and conquer
+        first = charset.from_splittable(splittable[:len(splittable)/2])
+        last = charset.from_splittable(splittable[len(splittable)/2:])
+        
+        return (body_base64_split(first, charset) +
+                body_base64_split(last, charset))
+
+def header_split(header, charset, maxlinelen=75):
+    """Split up a header safely for use with encode_header_chunks."""
+
+    splittable = charset.to_splittable(header)
+    encoded = charset.from_splittable(splittable)
+
+    length = len(encoded)
+    
+    if charset.header_encoding is QP:
+        length = qencode_len(encoded)
+    elif charset.header_encoding is BASE64:
+        length = bencode_len(encoded)
+
+    if length < maxlinelen - len(charset.output_charset) - 7:
+        return [(encoded, charset)]
+    else:
+        # divide and conquer
+        first = charset.from_splittable(splittable[:len(splittable)/2])
+        last = charset.from_splittable(splittable[len(splittable)/2:])
+        return (header_split(first, charset) +
+                header_split(last, charset))
+                    
+def fix_eols(str):
+    """Replace all line-ending characters with \r\n."""
+
+    # Fix newlines with no preceding carriage return
+    str = re.sub(r"(?

Here's the promised patch in my previous email, that enables Mailman
to send out properly MIME-ified, localized emails, with the correct
encoding and charset conversion for each language.  This patch is
against Mailman CVS.

Ben

Index: Mailman/Bouncer.py
===================================================================
RCS file: /cvsroot/mailman/mailman/Mailman/Bouncer.py,v
retrieving revision 2.14
diff -u -r2.14 Bouncer.py
--- Mailman/Bouncer.py	2001/10/15 20:39:56	2.14
+++ Mailman/Bouncer.py	2001/11/19 11:00:14
@@ -208,7 +208,8 @@
             rname = self.real_name
             msg0 = Message.UserNotification(
                 recipient, Utils.get_site_email(self.host_name, '-admin'),
-                _('%(rname)s member %(addr)s bouncing - %(negative)s%(did)s'))
+                _('%(rname)s member %(addr)s bouncing - %(negative)s%(did)s'),
+                lang=self.preferred_language)
             msg0['MIME-Version'] = '1.0'
             msg0['Content-Type'] = 'multipart/mixed'
             msg1 = MIMEText(text,
Index: Mailman/Deliverer.py
===================================================================
RCS file: /cvsroot/mailman/mailman/Mailman/Deliverer.py,v
retrieving revision 2.10
diff -u -r2.10 Deliverer.py
--- Mailman/Deliverer.py	2001/10/21 06:24:56	2.10
+++ Mailman/Deliverer.py	2001/11/19 11:00:14
@@ -65,7 +65,7 @@
         msg = Message.UserNotification(
             self.GetMemberAdminEmail(name), self.GetRequestEmail(),
             _('Welcome to the "%(realname)s" mailing list%(digmode)s'),
-            text)
+            text, pluser)
         msg['X-No-Archive'] = 'yes'
         msg.send(self)
 
@@ -74,7 +74,7 @@
         msg = Message.UserNotification(
             self.GetMemberAdminEmail(addr), self.GetAdminEmail(),
             _('You have been unsubscribed from the %(realname)s mailing list'),
-            Utils.wrap(self.goodbye_msg))
+            Utils.wrap(self.goodbye_msg), self.GetMemberLanguage(addr))
         msg.send(self)
 
     def MailUserPassword(self, user):
@@ -101,6 +101,7 @@
         cpuser = self.getMemberCPAddress(user)
         recipient = self.GetMemberAdminEmail(cpuser)
         subject = _('%(listfullname)s mailing list reminder')
+        mem_lang = self.getMemberLanguage(user)
         # get the text from the template
         text = Utils.maketext(
             'userpass.txt',
@@ -111,7 +112,8 @@
              'options_url': self.GetOptionsURL(user, absolute=1),
              'requestaddr': requestaddr,
              'owneraddr'  : self.GetOwnerEmail(),
-            }, lang=self.getMemberLanguage(user), mlist=self)
-        msg = Message.UserNotification(recipient, adminaddr, subject, text)
+            }, lang=mem_lang, mlist=self)
+        msg = Message.UserNotification(recipient, adminaddr, subject, text,
+                                       mem_lang)
         msg['X-No-Archive'] = 'yes'
         msg.send(self)
Index: Mailman/ListAdmin.py
===================================================================
RCS file: /cvsroot/mailman/mailman/Mailman/ListAdmin.py,v
retrieving revision 2.22
diff -u -r2.22 ListAdmin.py
--- Mailman/ListAdmin.py	2001/11/06 22:49:36	2.22
+++ Mailman/ListAdmin.py	2001/11/19 11:00:14
@@ -30,6 +30,8 @@
 import cPickle
 import email
 from email.MIMEMessage import MIMEMessage
+from email.Encoders import encode_header
+from email.Charset import Charset
 from cStringIO import StringIO
 
 from Mailman import mm_cfg
@@ -281,9 +283,13 @@
             except IOError, e:
                 if e.errno <> errno.ENOENT: raise
                 raise Errors.LostHeldMessage(path)
+            # We have to call email.Encoders.encode_header directly, we
+            # don't want to mess with the message
+            subject = encode_header(_('Forward of moderated  message'),
+                                    Charset(self.preferred_language))
             fmsg = Message.UserNotification(addr,
                                             self.GetAdminEmail(),
-                                            _('Forward of moderated  message'))
+                                            subject)
             fmsg.add_header('Content-Type', 'message/rfc822')
             fmsg.add_payload(copy)
             fmsg.send(self)
@@ -351,7 +357,8 @@
             # This message should appear to come from the -owner so as
             # to avoid any useless bounce processing.
             owneraddr = self.GetOwnerEmail()
-            msg = Message.UserNotification(owneraddr, owneraddr, subject, text)
+            msg = Message.UserNotification(owneraddr, owneraddr, subject, text,
+                                           lang)
             msg.send(self, **{'tomoderators': 1})
 
     def __handlesubscription(self, record, value, comment):
@@ -401,7 +408,8 @@
             # This message should appear to come from the -owner so as
             # to avoid any useless bounce processing.
             owneraddr = self.GetOwnerEmail()
-            msg = Message.UserNotification(owneraddr, owneraddr, subject, text)
+            msg = Message.UserNotification(owneraddr, owneraddr, subject, text,
+                                           self.preferred_language)
             msg.send(self, **{'tomoderators': 1})
 
     def __handleunsubscription(self, record, value, comment):
@@ -441,7 +449,7 @@
                  str(origmsg)
                  ])
         subject = _('Request to mailing list %(realname)s rejected')
-        msg = Message.UserNotification(recip, adminaddr, subject, text)
+        msg = Message.UserNotification(recip, adminaddr, subject, text, lang)
         msg.send(self)
 
 
Index: Mailman/MailCommandHandler.py
===================================================================
RCS file: /cvsroot/mailman/mailman/Mailman/MailCommandHandler.py,v
retrieving revision 2.23
diff -u -r2.23 MailCommandHandler.py
--- Mailman/MailCommandHandler.py	2001/10/21 22:11:20	2.23
+++ Mailman/MailCommandHandler.py	2001/11/19 11:00:14
@@ -270,18 +270,16 @@
                         syslog('error',
                                'Unexpected Mailman error:\n%s', tbmsg)
                         # and send the traceback to the user
+                        lang = msgdata.get('lang',
+                                           self.getMemberLanguage(admin))
                         responsemsg = Message.UserNotification(
                             admin, admin, _('Unexpected Mailman error'),
                             _('''\
 An unexpected Mailman error has occurred in
 MailCommandHandler.ParseMailCommands().  Here is the traceback:
 
-''') + tbmsg)
+''') + tbmsg, lang)
                         responsemsg['X-No-Archive'] = 'yes'
-                        lang = msgdata.get('lang',
-                                           self.getMemberLanguage(admin))
-                        responsemsg.add_header('Content-Type', 'text/plain',
-                                               charset=Utils.GetCharSet(lang))
                         responsemsg.send(self)
                         break
         # send the response
@@ -313,7 +311,7 @@
             responsemsg = Message.UserNotification(msg.get_sender(),
                                                    self.GetRequestEmail(),
                                                    subject,
-                                                   self.__respbuf)
+                                                   self.__respbuf, lang)
             responsemsg.add_header('Content-Type', 'text/plain',
                                    charset=Utils.GetCharSet(lang))
             responsemsg.send(self)
Index: Mailman/MailList.py
===================================================================
RCS file: /cvsroot/mailman/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py,v
retrieving revision 2.48
diff -u -r2.48 MailList.py
--- Mailman/MailList.py	2001/10/27 01:59:41	2.48
+++ Mailman/MailList.py	2001/11/19 11:00:15
@@ -666,7 +666,7 @@
             msg = Message.UserNotification(
                 recipient, self.GetRequestEmail(),
                 'confirm %s' % cookie,
-                text)
+                text, lang)
             msg['Reply-To'] = self.GetRequestEmail()
             msg.send(self)
             if recipient <> email:
@@ -748,7 +748,7 @@
                  }, lang=lang, mlist=self)
             msg = Message.UserNotification(
                 self.owner, Utils.get_site_email(self.host_name, '-admin'),
-                subject, text)
+                subject, text, lang)
             msg.send(self)
 
     def DeleteMember(self, name, whence=None, admin_notif=0, userack=1):
@@ -786,7 +786,7 @@
                  }, mlist=self)
             msg = Message.UserNotification(
                 self.owner, Utils.get_site_email(self.host_name, '-admin'),
-                subject, text)
+                subject, text, lang)
             msg.send(self)
         if whence:
             whence = "; %s" % whence
@@ -850,7 +850,7 @@
         msg = Message.UserNotification(
             newaddr, self.GetRequestEmail(),
             'confirm %s' % cookie,
-            text)
+            text, self.getMemberLanguage(oldaddr))
         msg['Reply-To'] = self.GetRequestEmail()
         msg.send(self)
 
@@ -994,7 +994,7 @@
         msg = Message.UserNotification(
             addr, self.GetRequestEmail(),
             'confirm %s' % cookie,
-            text)
+            text, lang)
         msg['Reply-To'] = self.GetRequestEmail()
         msg.send(self)
 
Index: Mailman/Message.py
===================================================================
RCS file: /cvsroot/mailman/mailman/Mailman/Message.py,v
retrieving revision 2.9
diff -u -r2.9 Message.py
--- Mailman/Message.py	2001/10/15 21:38:01	2.9
+++ Mailman/Message.py	2001/11/19 11:00:15
@@ -22,6 +22,9 @@
 
 import email.Message
 import email.Utils
+from email.Encoders import encode_body, encode_header
+from email.Charset import Charset, QP, BASE64
+
 from types import ListType
 
 from Mailman import mm_cfg
@@ -92,8 +95,22 @@
 class UserNotification(Message):
     """Class for internally crafted messages."""
 
-    def __init__(self, recip, sender, subject=None, text=None):
+    def __init__(self, recip, sender, subject=None, text=None, lang=None):
         Message.__init__(self)
+
+        if lang is not None:
+            cset = Charset(Utils.GetCharSet(lang))
+            text = encode_body(text, cset)
+            subject = encode_header(subject, cset)
+            self.add_header('MIME-Version', '1.0')
+            self.add_header('Content-Type', 'text/plain',
+                            charset=cset.output_charset)
+            cte = '7bit'
+            if cset.body_encoding is QP:
+                cte = 'quoted-printable'
+            elif cset.body_encoding is BASE64:
+                cte = 'base64'
+                self.add_header('Content-Transfer-Encoding', cte)
         if text is not None:
             self.set_payload(text)
         if subject is None:
@@ -106,6 +123,7 @@
         else:
             self['To'] = recip
             self.recips = [recip]
+        self.lang = lang
 
     def send(self, mlist, **_kws):
         """Sends the message by enqueuing it to the `virgin' queue.
@@ -117,6 +135,7 @@
         # this is useful for logging to logs/smtp.
         if not self.has_key('message-id'):
             self['Message-ID'] = Utils.unique_message_id(mlist)
+
         # Not imported at module scope to avoid import loop
         from Mailman.Queue.sbcache import get_switchboard
         virginq = get_switchboard(mm_cfg.VIRGINQUEUE_DIR)
Index: Mailman/Cgi/create.py
===================================================================
RCS file: /cvsroot/mailman/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/create.py,v
retrieving revision 2.13
diff -u -r2.13 create.py
--- Mailman/Cgi/create.py	2001/11/06 23:29:19	2.13
+++ Mailman/Cgi/create.py	2001/11/19 11:00:15
@@ -219,7 +219,7 @@
         msg = Message.UserNotification(
             owner, siteadmin,
             _('Your new mailing list: %(listname)s'),
-            text)
+            text, mlist.preferred_language)
         msg.send(mlist)
 
     # Success!
Index: Mailman/Cgi/subscribe.py
===================================================================
RCS file: /cvsroot/mailman/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/subscribe.py,v
retrieving revision 2.15
diff -u -r2.15 subscribe.py
--- Mailman/Cgi/subscribe.py	2001/10/12 05:14:25	2.15
+++ Mailman/Cgi/subscribe.py	2001/11/19 11:00:15
@@ -230,7 +230,7 @@
 an attempt is being made to covertly discover whether you are a member of this
 list, and you are worried about your privacy, then feel free to send a message
 to the list administrator at %(listowner)s.
-"""))
+"""), lang)
             msg.send(mlist)
     # These shouldn't happen unless someone's tampering with the form
     except Errors.MMCantDigestError:
Index: Mailman/Handlers/Acknowledge.py
===================================================================
RCS file: /cvsroot/mailman/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/Acknowledge.py,v
retrieving revision 2.10
diff -u -r2.10 Acknowledge.py
--- Mailman/Handlers/Acknowledge.py	2001/10/01 16:32:06	2.10
+++ Mailman/Handlers/Acknowledge.py	2001/11/19 11:00:15
@@ -63,7 +63,5 @@
     # queue.
     subject = _('%(realname)s post acknowledgement')
     usermsg = Message.UserNotification(sender, mlist.GetAdminEmail(),
-                                       subject, text)
-    usermsg.add_header('Content-Type', 'text/plain',
-                       charset=Utils.GetCharSet(lang))
+                                       subject, text, lang)
     usermsg.send(mlist)
Index: Mailman/Handlers/Hold.py
===================================================================
RCS file: /cvsroot/mailman/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/Hold.py,v
retrieving revision 2.18
diff -u -r2.18 Hold.py
--- Mailman/Handlers/Hold.py	2001/10/15 22:22:08	2.18
+++ Mailman/Handlers/Hold.py	2001/11/19 11:00:15
@@ -217,9 +217,8 @@
         lang = msgdata.get('lang', mlist.getMemberLanguage(sender))
         subject = _('Your message to %(listname)s awaits moderator approval')
         text = Utils.maketext('postheld.txt', d, lang=lang, mlist=mlist)
-        nmsg = Message.UserNotification(sender, adminaddr, subject, text)
-        nmsg.add_header('Content-Type', 'text/plain',
-                        charset=Utils.GetCharSet(lang))
+        nmsg = Message.UserNotification(sender, adminaddr, subject, text,
+                                        lang)
         nmsg.send(mlist)
     # Now the message for the list owners.  Be sure to include the list
     # moderators in this message.  This one should appear to come from
@@ -237,7 +236,8 @@
             d['subject'] = usersubject
             # craft the admin notification message and deliver it
             subject = _('%(listname)s post from %(sender)s requires approval')
-            nmsg = Message.UserNotification(owneraddr, owneraddr, subject)
+            nmsg = Message.UserNotification(owneraddr, owneraddr, subject,
+                                            lang=lang)
             nmsg['Content-Type'] = 'multipart/mixed'
             nmsg['MIME-Version'] = '1.0'
             text = MIMEText(
Index: Mailman/Handlers/Moderate.py
===================================================================
RCS file: /cvsroot/mailman/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/Moderate.py,v
retrieving revision 2.0
diff -u -r2.0 Moderate.py
--- Mailman/Handlers/Moderate.py	2001/10/15 22:23:17	2.0
+++ Mailman/Handlers/Moderate.py	2001/11/19 11:00:15
@@ -93,7 +93,8 @@
                   mlist.GetScriptURL('admin', absolute=1)
         nmsg = Message.UserNotification(mlist.GetOwnerEmail(),
                                         mlist.GetAdminEmail(),
-                                        _('Auto-discard notification'))
+                                        _('Auto-discard notification'),
+                                        mlist.preferred_language)
         nmsg['Content-Type'] = 'multipart/mixed'
         nmsg['MIME-Version'] = '1.0'
         text = MIMEText(Utils.wrap(_("""\
Index: Mailman/Handlers/Replybot.py
===================================================================
RCS file: /cvsroot/mailman/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/Replybot.py,v
retrieving revision 2.4
diff -u -r2.4 Replybot.py
--- Mailman/Handlers/Replybot.py	2001/07/13 17:00:34	2.4
+++ Mailman/Handlers/Replybot.py	2001/11/19 11:00:15
@@ -48,6 +48,7 @@
     # means always autorespond, as does an "X-Ack: yes" header (useful for
     # debugging).
     sender = msg.get_sender()
+    lang = mlist.getMemberLanguage(sender)
     now = time.time()
     graceperiod = mlist.autoresponse_graceperiod
     if graceperiod > 0 and ack <> 'yes':
@@ -90,7 +91,7 @@
     # Wrap the response.
     text = Utils.wrap(text)
     outmsg = Message.UserNotification(sender, mlist.GetAdminEmail(),
-                                      subject, text)
+                                      subject, text, lang)
     outmsg['X-Mailer'] = _('The Mailman Replybot')
     # prevent recursions and mail loops!
     outmsg['X-Ack'] = 'No'
Index: Mailman/MTA/Manual.py
===================================================================
RCS file: /cvsroot/mailman/mailman/Mailman/MTA/Manual.py,v
retrieving revision 2.2
diff -u -r2.2 Manual.py
--- Mailman/MTA/Manual.py	2001/09/04 15:09:56	2.2
+++ Mailman/MTA/Manual.py	2001/11/19 11:00:15
@@ -65,7 +65,7 @@
     msg = Message.UserNotification(
         siteowner, siteowner,
         _('Mailing list creation request for list %(listname)s'),
-        sfp.getvalue())
+        sfp.getvalue(), mlist.preferred_language)
     outq = get_switchboard(mm_cfg.OUTQUEUE_DIR)
     outq.enqueue(msg, recips=[siteowner])
 
@@ -108,6 +108,6 @@
     msg = Message.UserNotification(
         siteowner, siteowner,
         _('Mailing list removal request for list %(listname)s'),
-        sfp.getvalue())
+        sfp.getvalue(), mlist.preferred_language)
     outq = get_switchboard(mm_cfg.OUTQUEUE_DIR)
     outq.enqueue(msg, recips=[siteowner])
Index: bin/newlist
===================================================================
RCS file: /cvsroot/mailman/mailman/bin/newlist,v
retrieving revision 2.10
diff -u -r2.10 newlist
--- bin/newlist	2001/09/07 23:18:47	2.10
+++ bin/newlist	2001/11/19 11:00:15
@@ -179,7 +179,7 @@
         msg = Message.UserNotification(
             owner_mail, siteadmin,
             _('Your new mailing list: %(listname)s'),
-            text)
+            text, mlist.preferred_language)
         msg.send(mlist)
 
 

-- 
Ben Gertzfield                  $B%Y%s!&%,!<%D%U%#!<%k%I(B
Global Media Online INC.        $B%0%m%P%k%a%G%#%"%*%s%i%$%s3t<02q

vtkusers=A3=AChi=A3=A1

Has anyone sucessfully use vtk to render to read, and render=
 DICOM3 file
format? Please advise on how could it be done?

                    

            bxb1280
            bxb1280@yahoo.com




                    =D6=C2
=C0=F1=A3=A1

            bxb1280
            bxb1280@yahoo.com


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com



From Dan Mick   Tue Nov 20 01:14:42 2001
From: Dan Mick  (Dan Mick)
Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 17:14:42 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Fw: hi
Message-ID: <200111200114.RAA03761@utopia.West.Sun.COM>

No one on this list has any idea what you're talking about.
The name is "mailman-developers", and that means it's a place for
Mailman developers to talk.  I have no idea what vtk or DICOM3
are.

> vtkusers=A3=AChi=A3=A1
>=20
> Has anyone sucessfully use vtk to render to read, and render DICOM3 file
> format? Please advise on how could it be done?
>=20
>                    =20
>=20
>             bxb1280
>             bxb1280@yahoo.com
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>                     =D6=C2
> =C0=F1=A3=A1
>=20
>             bxb1280
>             bxb1280@yahoo.com
>=20
>=20
> _________________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
>=20
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> Mailman-Developers mailing list
> Mailman-Developers@python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers



From jaccino@ieev.uma.es  Tue Nov 20 15:15:55 2001
From: jaccino@ieev.uma.es (Jose A. Accino)
Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 16:15:55 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Bug in Mailman version 2.1a3: AttributeError: one_last_digest
In-Reply-To: <15264.41438.34480.725393@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: 
 
Message-ID: 

This problem occurs each time an admin attempts to set/remove the
Digest option for a user. It's the version from CVS dated 7 sep 2001.

>Bug in Mailman version 2.1a3
>
>We're sorry, we hit a bug!
>
>If you would like to help us identify the problem, please email a copy of
>this page to the webmaster for this site with a description of
>what happened. Thanks!
>
>Traceback:
>
>Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "/usr/local/mailman/scripts/driver", line 96, in run_main
>    main()
>  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/admin.py", line 158, in main
>    change_options(mlist, category, cgidata, doc)
>  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/admin.py", line 1316, in change_options
>    mlist.setMemberOption(user, mm_cfg.Digests, value)
>  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/OldStyleMemberships.py", line 266, in
>setMemberOption
>    self.__mlist.one_last_digest[memberkey] = cpuser
>  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 134, in __getattr__
>    raise AttributeError, name
>AttributeError: one_last_digest


Also, the admin is currently not receiving the requests to confirm
subscriptions.


BTW. I'd like to upgrade to latest CVS, so, is there any way to get the
Python "email"
package separately? I'm unable to find it on Python site.

JA.

JA.


From jaccino@ieev.uma.es  Tue Nov 20 18:29:27 2001
From: jaccino@ieev.uma.es (Jose A. Accino)
Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 19:29:27 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Bug creating lists in 2.1a3+
Message-ID: 

Well, I just updated to latest CVS. I installed Python 2.2 and
Mailman. Now, creating a new list with the web interface I get
the error message below. Using the command line I get a similar
one but without the reference to the 'process request()' call.

Any help?

JA.



>Bug in Mailman version 2.1a3+
>
>[...]
>
>Traceback:
>
>Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "/usr/local/mailman/scripts/driver", line 96, in run_main
>    main()
>  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/create.py", line 55, in main
>    process_request(doc, cgidata)
>  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/create.py", line 205, in
>process_request
>    sys.modules[modname].create(mlist, cgi=1)
>  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/MTA/Postfix.py", line 122, in create
>    db = dbhash.open(DBFILE, 'c')
>  File "/usr/local/lib/python2.2/dbhash.py", line 16, in open
>    return bsddb.hashopen(file, flag, mode)
>error: (22, 'Invalid argument')
>
>
>
>
>
>Python information:
>
>     Variable
>                                               Value
> sys.version
>                 2.2b2 (#1, Nov 20 2001, 17:18:14) [GCC 2.95.2 20000220
>(Debian GNU/Linux)]
> sys.executable
>                 /usr/local/bin/python
> sys.prefix
>                 /usr/local
> sys.exec_prefix
>                 /usr/local
> sys.path
>                 /usr/local
> sys.platform
>                 linux2


From jaccino@ieev.uma.es  Tue Nov 20 18:58:37 2001
From: jaccino@ieev.uma.es (Jose A. Accino)
Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 19:58:37 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] More about bug creating lists in 2.1a3+
Message-ID: 

Looking at the lists directory the new lists are there. However
I can't delete them, (i get a similar bug message) and posts
sent are bounced back with a 'user unknown' (the listname) mesage.

After running genaliases, messages to new lists are not bounced but,
postfix log says 'fatal: open database ...aliases.db: Invalid argument'

It seems that there is no problem however with old lists created
before the update.

Any ideas?

TIA,
JA.


From barry@zope.com  Tue Nov 20 19:34:48 2001
From: barry@zope.com (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 14:34:48 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Bug in Mailman version 2.1a3: AttributeError: one_last_digest
References: 
 
Message-ID: <15354.45144.351432.114936@anthem.wooz.org>

>>>>> "JAA" == Jose A Accino  writes:

    JAA> This problem occurs each time an admin attempts to set/remove
    JAA> the Digest option for a user. It's the version from CVS dated
    JAA> 7 sep 2001.

Very strange.  I've had other reports of this, but I can't seem to
reproduce this, either with a brand new list, or a list upgraded from
2.0.7.

    JAA> Also, the admin is currently not receiving the requests to
    JAA> confirm subscriptions.

I can't reproduce this either.

    JAA> BTW. I'd like to upgrade to latest CVS, so, is there any way
    JAA> to get the Python "email" package separately? I'm unable to
    JAA> find it on Python site.

Actually, the latest email package is in the misc/ directory of cvs,
but you can also get it at the mimelib SourceForge project.

-Barry


From barry@zope.com  Tue Nov 20 19:48:12 2001
From: barry@zope.com (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 14:48:12 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] [PATCH] Proof-of-concept: proper MIME i18n mails from Mailman
References: <87wv0nhtus.fsf@nausicaa.interq.or.jp>
Message-ID: <15354.45948.141292.527073@anthem.wooz.org>

Thanks Ben.  I'm going to start looking at this stuff closely over the
next few hours.

A suggestion, since Daniel Buchmann's gotten me started on it.  Would
you like to hang out on irc for a while in case I have questions?

-Barry


From jaccino@ieev.uma.es  Tue Nov 20 23:41:04 2001
From: jaccino@ieev.uma.es (J.Accino)
Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 00:41:04 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Corrupted Aliases.db (Was: bug creating new lists)
Message-ID: 

Definitely, the problem seems related with a corrupted aliases db.

Looking at the archives I've found a thread on past August about the same
problem and gave a try to the trick used by R.Pilas: using 'postalias
hash:/mailman/data/aliases' to build the db.  I'm then able to send messages.
But... I can't create or delete lists (!). At each attempt I get the following
errors, both related to Postfix.py and dbhash.py:

mailer:/usr/local/mailman# bin/newlist test5 me@ieev.uma.es xxxxx
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "bin/newlist", line 188, in ?
    main()
  File "bin/newlist", line 163, in main
    sys.modules[modname].create(mlist)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/MTA/Postfix.py", line 122, in create
    db = dbhash.open(DBFILE, 'c')
  File "/usr/local/lib/python2.2/dbhash.py", line 16, in open
    return bsddb.hashopen(file, flag, mode)
bsddb.error: (22, 'Argumento invalido')

mailer:/usr/local/mailman# bin/rmlist -a test3
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "bin/rmlist", line 120, in ?
    main()
  File "bin/rmlist", line 100, in main
    sys.modules[modname].remove(mlist)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/MTA/Postfix.py", line 157, in remove
    db = dbhash.open(DBFILE, 'c')
  File "/usr/local/lib/python2.2/dbhash.py", line 16, in open
    return bsddb.hashopen(file, flag, mode)
bsddb.error: (22, 'Argumento invalido')

On the other side, following the steps on Readme.Postfix, genaliases seems
to build a db unreadable by Postfix. I deleted aliases.db and rebuilt it with
genaliases. I've been then able to create new lists and delete them, but
Postfix is unable to read aliases.db and complaints with  'warning:
mail_scan_any: got EOF; expected: string' and 'warning: private/local:
malformed response'. Then, to send/receive mail I have to comment the call
to the mailman alias in postfix/main.cf

Any ideas?

JA.


From barry@zope.com  Tue Nov 20 23:51:15 2001
From: barry@zope.com (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 18:51:15 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Corrupted Aliases.db (Was: bug creating new lists)
References: 
Message-ID: <15354.60531.961330.407992@anthem.wooz.org>

>>>>> "JA" == J Accino  writes:

    JA> Definitely, the problem seems related with a corrupted aliases
    JA> db.

Actually, I'll bet its an incompatibility between the bsddb libraries
used by Python and those used by Postfix.  We need to figure out which
version the two programs are using.  The only way I can think of to do
this is to use ldd to see which dynamic library the two of them are
linked against, e.g.

% ldd /usr/local/bin/postfix
	libdb.so.3 => /lib/libdb.so.3 (0x40018000)
	libnsl.so.1 => /lib/libnsl.so.1 (0x40053000)
	libresolv.so.2 => /lib/libresolv.so.2 (0x40069000)
	libc.so.6 => /lib/libc.so.6 (0x40078000)
	/lib/ld-linux.so.2 => /lib/ld-linux.so.2 (0x40000000)
% ldd /usr/local/lib/python2.1/lib-dynload/bsddb.so
	libdb.so.3 => /lib/libdb.so.3 (0x40009000)
	libc.so.6 => /lib/libc.so.6 (0x40044000)
	/lib/ld-linux.so.2 => /lib/ld-linux.so.2 (0x80000000)

So in my case both are linked against libdb.so.3.

What do yours say?

If they differ, read this page for hints on how to get Python to use
the same bsddb module as Postfix:

http://python.sourceforge.net/devel-docs/lib/module-bsddb.html

anticipating-a-faq-entry-ly y'rs,
-Barry


From mhz@alt-linux.org  Wed Nov 21 07:07:33 2001
From: mhz@alt-linux.org (Mikhail Zabaluev)
Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 10:07:33 +0300
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] I18n proposal
Message-ID: <20011121070733.GB20256@localhost.localdomain>

--wac7ysb48OaltWcw
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Disposition: inline

Hello,

I'd like to see some I18n issues in Mailman to be addressed prior to
the 2.1 release. Basically, it's some bugs or misfeatures related to
transformation of MIME-encoded messages.

The most serious bug I see here is that messages encoded in base64
still get decorated with plaintext. This results in garbage on many
clients. Here I attach a quick fix to disable decoration for
base64-encoded messages. A more mature solution would be to decode
such messages into 8bit, implementing Decoder for that matter, and
slap decoration text onto the result. No, wait -- there still is an
implicit assumption that message bodies and the decoration text share
the same character set. Thus the decorations should be recoded from
what character set they are assumed to be in (ASCII? ISO8859-1? UTF-8?
Selectable per list?) into the character set of the message.

Another problem is encoded messages in archives. Heck, look at
this list's archive to see what I'm talking about. Those should also
be decoded and have character set converted to some uniform one. I'd
suggest UTF-8, but many browsers and text viewers still don't grok
this charset, so it'd better be selectable as well.

-- 
Stay tuned,
  MhZ                                     JID: mookid@jabber.org
___________
A committee is a group that keeps the minutes and loses hours.
		-- Milton Berle

--wac7ysb48OaltWcw
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="mailman-decorate.patch"

--- mailman-cvs/Mailman/Handlers/Decorate.py.orig	Wed Nov 21 09:27:45 2001
+++ mailman-cvs/Mailman/Handlers/Decorate.py	Wed Nov 21 09:31:44 2001
@@ -52,10 +52,12 @@
     header = decorate(mlist, mlist.msg_header, _('non-digest header'), d)
     footer = decorate(mlist, mlist.msg_footer, _('non-digest footer'), d)
     # Be MIME smart here.  We only attach the header and footer by
-    # concatenation when the message is a non-multipart of type text/plain.
+    # concatenation when the message is a non-multipart of type text/plain
+    # in a human-readable encoding (i.e. not base64).
     # Otherwise, if it is not a multipart, we make it a multipart, and then we
     # add the header and footer as text/plain parts.
-    if not msg.is_multipart() and msg.get_type('text/plain') == 'text/plain':
+    if not msg.is_multipart() and msg.get_type('text/plain') == 'text/plain'
+       and msg['Content-Transfer-Encoding'] != 'base64':
         payload = header + msg.get_payload() + footer
         msg.set_payload(payload)
     elif msg.get_type() == 'multipart/mixed':

--wac7ysb48OaltWcw--


From che@debian.org  Wed Nov 21 09:29:41 2001
From: che@debian.org (Ben Gertzfield)
Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 18:29:41 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] I18n proposal
In-Reply-To: <20011121070733.GB20256@localhost.localdomain> (Mikhail
 Zabaluev's message of "Wed, 21 Nov 2001 10:07:33 +0300")
References: <20011121070733.GB20256@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <87bshwcvzu.fsf@nausicaa.interq.or.jp>

>>>>> "Mikhail" == Mikhail Zabaluev  writes:

    Mikhail> Hello, I'd like to see some I18n issues in Mailman to be
    Mikhail> addressed prior to the 2.1 release. Basically, it's some
    Mikhail> bugs or misfeatures related to transformation of
    Mikhail> MIME-encoded messages.

I am working actively with Barry now on Mailman's i18n issues. See
my recent patches in the archives.

    Mikhail> The most serious bug I see here is that messages encoded
    Mikhail> in base64 still get decorated with plaintext.

Headers or bodies?  Are you talking about the footer tacked on to the
end of messages?  If so, it would be simple with the new message
structure to make the footer be a separate text part.  Though, I
don't see how adding some plain text after the end of the boundary
could be corrupted; could you put an example corrupted message up?

    Mikahil> No, wait -- there still is an implicit assumption that
    Mikahil> message bodies and the decoration text share the same
    Mikahil> character set. Thus the decorations should be recoded
    Mikahil> from what character set they are assumed to be in (ASCII? 
    Mikahil> ISO8859-1? UTF-8? Selectable per list?) into the
    Mikahil> character set of the message.

I'll work on addressing this now that we have some code that actually
deals with character set issues.

    Mikhail> Another problem is encoded messages in archives. Heck,
    Mikhail> look at this list's archive to see what I'm talking
    Mikhail> about. Those should also be decoded and have character
    Mikhail> set converted to some uniform one. I'd suggest UTF-8, but
    Mikhail> many browsers and text viewers still don't grok this
    Mikhail> charset, so it'd better be selectable as well.

I talked with Barry about this today.  My solution is to "guess" the
character set based on whichever is most common in the archives, and
use that as the charset specified in the HTML.  For any messages with
multi-language subjects or bodies, the main language will be left
in the normal character set, and the multi-language parts will be
encoded with the UTF-8 HTML entity.

This will require Python unicode codecs for all our languages, which
do not exist for KOI-8, Big5, or GB, as far as I know.

Ben

-- 
Brought to you by the letters B and S and the number 14.
"It is sad. *Campers* cannot *dance*. Not even a *party*."
Debian GNU/Linux maintainer of Gimp and Nethack -- http://www.debian.org/


From jaccino@ieev.uma.es  Wed Nov 21 09:48:06 2001
From: jaccino@ieev.uma.es (Jose A. Accino)
Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 10:48:06 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Corrupted Aliases.db (Was: bug creating
 new lists)
In-Reply-To: <15354.60531.961330.407992@anthem.wooz.org>
References: 
Message-ID: 

>Actually, I'll bet its an incompatibility between the bsddb libraries
>used by Python and those used by Postfix.

Yes, python 2.2 is using libdb.so.2, while postfix uses libdb.so.3

# ldd /usr/local/lib/python2.2/lib-dynload/bsddb.so
        libdb.so.2 => /lib/libdb.so.2 (0x40007000)
        libc.so.6 => /lib/libc.so.6 (0x40016000)
        /lib/ld-linux.so.2 => /lib/ld-linux.so.2 (0x80000000)

# ldd /usr/sbin/postfix
        libdb.so.3 => /lib/libdb.so.3 (0x40016000)
        libnsl.so.1 => /lib/libnsl.so.1 (0x40052000)
        libresolv.so.2 => /lib/libresolv.so.2 (0x40068000)
        libc.so.6 => /lib/libc.so.6 (0x40077000)
        /lib/ld-linux.so.2 => /lib/ld-linux.so.2 (0x40000000)

However, previous Python was also using libdb.so.3

# ldd /usr/local/lib/python2.1/lib-dynload/bsddb.so
        libdb.so.3 => /lib/libdb.so.3 (0x40007000)
        libc.so.6 => /lib/libc.so.6 (0x40043000)
        /lib/ld-linux.so.2 => /lib/ld-linux.so.2 (0x80000000)

I think I'll get the email package and return back to Python 2.1.
Any advantage on going into Python 2.2 (besides the email lib)?

JA.


From mrbill@mrbill.net  Wed Nov 21 12:37:59 2001
From: mrbill@mrbill.net (Bill Bradford)
Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 06:37:59 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] "bug" on download page
Message-ID: <20011121063759.F13989@mrbill.net>

http://www.list.org/MM21/download.html

lists the current stable version at 2.0.5...

Bill

-- 
Bill Bradford
mrbill@mrbill.net
Austin, TX


From mrbill@mrbill.net  Wed Nov 21 12:45:58 2001
From: mrbill@mrbill.net (Bill Bradford)
Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 06:45:58 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] problem with 2.1a3
Message-ID: <20011121064558.G13989@mrbill.net>

Should I be getting it from CVS instead of sourceforge?  Trying to install
in /usr/local/mailman21 (my "production" 2.0.7 install is in /usr/local/
mailman):

while doing "make":

Listing /usr/local/mailman21/Mailman/pythonlib ...
Compiling /usr/local/mailman21/Mailman/pythonlib/StringIO.py ...
Compiling /usr/local/mailman21/Mailman/pythonlib/__init__.py ...
Compiling /usr/local/mailman21/Mailman/pythonlib/cgi.py ...
Compiling /usr/local/mailman21/Mailman/pythonlib/mailbox.py ...
Compiling /usr/local/mailman21/Mailman/pythonlib/rfc822.py ...
Compiling /usr/local/mailman21/Mailman/versions.py ...
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "bin/update", line 46, in ?
    from Mailman import Utils
  File "/usr/local/mailman21/Mailman/Utils.py", line 34, in ?
    import email.Iterators
ImportError: No module named email.Iterators
gmake: *** [update] Error 1

Python 2.1:

root@ohno:/usr/local/src/mailman-2.1a3> python -V
Python 2.1.1

Bill

-- 
Bill Bradford
mrbill@mrbill.net
Austin, TX


From mrbill@mrbill.net  Wed Nov 21 12:51:36 2001
From: mrbill@mrbill.net (Bill Bradford)
Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 06:51:36 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] problem with 2.1a3
In-Reply-To: <20011121064558.G13989@mrbill.net>
References: <20011121064558.G13989@mrbill.net>
Message-ID: <20011121065136.H13989@mrbill.net>

On Wed, Nov 21, 2001 at 06:45:58AM -0600, Bill Bradford wrote:
> Python 2.1:
> root@ohno:/usr/local/src/mailman-2.1a3> python -V
> Python 2.1.1

Okay, where can I find the standalone email module source?

Bill

-- 
Bill Bradford
mrbill@mrbill.net
Austin, TX


From barry@zope.com  Wed Nov 21 17:12:35 2001
From: barry@zope.com (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 12:12:35 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Hanging out on irc
Message-ID: <15355.57475.790633.509390@anthem.wooz.org>

Hey folks, I'll be hanging on irc today, off and on until about 7pm
EST, talking about MM2.1.  irc.openprojects.net #mailman

See you there,
-Barry


From barry@zope.com  Wed Nov 21 18:14:48 2001
From: barry@zope.com (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 13:14:48 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] "bug" on download page
References: <20011121063759.F13989@mrbill.net>
Message-ID: <15355.61208.708966.406103@anthem.wooz.org>

>>>>> "BB" == Bill Bradford  writes:

    BB> http://www.list.org/MM21/download.html

    BB> lists the current stable version at 2.0.5...

Fixed, thanks.


From Nigel.Metheringham@Vdata.co.uk  Wed Nov 21 23:00:31 2001
From: Nigel.Metheringham@Vdata.co.uk (Nigel Metheringham)
Date: 21 Nov 2001 23:00:31 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] MTA interface for MM 2.1
Message-ID: <1006383631.9585.0.camel@rincewind.localnet>

People are probably familiar with teh current ability of exim to be
configured to automagically see lists and handle them appropriately. 
There is also a wrapper (in scripts/auto) in MM 2.1 that attempts to do
the same thing for postfix (BTW it will need updating for the additional
aliases now used).

MM 2.1 uses some additional list entry points.  This means that for an
alias based approach to injecting mail there are now more aliases, and
worse they aren't regular.  Here's the alias set for a list with
basename x (I have truncated the path on wrapper to make it fit without
wrapping):-

  x                 |wrapper post x
  x-admin           |wrapper mailowner x
  x-request         |wrapper mailcmd x
  x-join            |wrapper join x
  x-leave           |wrapper leave x
  x-bounces         |wrapper bounces x
  x-owner           |wrapper mailowner x

Additionally if VERP is being used, the bounces alias should also be
matching stuff like
  x-bounces+aperson=dom.ain@mailhost.dom

Exim (and I guess other mailers - I'm going to talk on what I know and
then let other folks talk on the other MTAs), can handle stuff based on
regular expressions, so given a list x (matched by some magic - current
config does it by checking if the file /home/mailman/lists/x/config.db
exists) its dead easy to match an address suffix (I think the postfix
folks call this an extension )
  -(admin|request|join|leave|bounces|owner)

However, since the argument to wrapper varies with the extension I then
need an additional lookup to convert that extention to the wrapper
command.

So, for exim, life would be much easier if I could handle these
(excluding the post command) by having

  (.+)-(admin|request|join|leave|bounces|owner)
map to
     |wrapper $2 $1

[$1 & $2 are the regexp matches from the expression above]

Barry - any chance of regularising the naming of the entry points, or
adding aliases for admin, request and owner??
I would guess this approach would work for several different mailers.

BTW VERP could be handled by changing the intitial regexp to
  ([a-z0-9_-]*)-(admin|request|join|leave|bounces|owner)(\+.*)

An alternative approach might be that all addresses that are caught by
the MTA list matching stuff are passed direct into the Mailman address
handler, so you just invoked
   wrapper mailman-address-handler 
    

and let the python do the magic from there on.

	Nigel.



If it was then possible to 



From claw@kanga.nu  Wed Nov 21 23:18:44 2001
From: claw@kanga.nu (J C Lawrence)
Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 15:18:44 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] MTA interface for MM 2.1
In-Reply-To: Message from Nigel Metheringham 
 of "21 Nov 2001 23:00:31 GMT." <1006383631.9585.0.camel@rincewind.localnet>
References: <1006383631.9585.0.camel@rincewind.localnet>
Message-ID: <26088.1006384724@kanga.nu>

On 21 Nov 2001 23:00:31 +0000 
Nigel Metheringham  wrote:

>  x                 |wrapper post x
>  x-admin           |wrapper mailowner x
>  x-request         |wrapper mailcmd x
>  x-join            |wrapper join x
>  x-leave           |wrapper leave x
>  x-bounces         |wrapper bounces x
>  x-owner           |wrapper mailowner x

Barry,

It seems like it would be wise/good to also support:

  x-subscribe            |wrapper subscribe x
  x-unsubscribe          |wrapper unsubscribe x

ie making "subscribe" an alias for "join" and ditto for
leave/unsubscribe.  Its a small thing, but I suspect it would reduce
confusion.

-- 
J C Lawrence
---------(*)                Satan, oscillate my metallic sonatas.
claw@kanga.nu               He lived as a devil, eh?
http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/  Evil is a name of a foeman, as I live.


From barry@zope.com  Wed Nov 21 23:24:30 2001
From: barry@zope.com (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 18:24:30 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] MTA interface for MM 2.1
References: <1006383631.9585.0.camel@rincewind.localnet>
Message-ID: <15356.14254.146387.1617@anthem.wooz.org>

>>>>> "NM" == Nigel Metheringham  writes:

    NM> People are probably familiar with teh current ability of exim
    NM> to be configured to automagically see lists and handle them
    NM> appropriately.  There is also a wrapper (in scripts/auto) in
    NM> MM 2.1 that attempts to do the same thing for postfix (BTW it
    NM> will need updating for the additional aliases now used).

I actually don't plan on updating auto for MM2.1.  To use it requires
you to configure Postfix in ways that could interact poorly with other
parts of your mail system, depending on your topology.  I'm not sure
if I should leave it around for posterity, or just zap it.

    NM> MM 2.1 uses some additional list entry points.  This means
    NM> that for an alias based approach to injecting mail there are
    NM> now more aliases, and worse they aren't regular.  Here's the
    NM> alias set for a list with basename x (I have truncated the
    NM> path on wrapper to make it fit without wrapping):-

    |   x                 |wrapper post x
    |   x-admin           |wrapper mailowner x
    |   x-request         |wrapper mailcmd x
    |   x-join            |wrapper join x
    |   x-leave           |wrapper leave x
    |   x-bounces         |wrapper bounces x
    |   x-owner           |wrapper mailowner x

    NM> Additionally if VERP is being used, the bounces alias should
    NM> also be matching stuff like
    NM> x-bounces+aperson=dom.ain@mailhost.dom

    NM> Exim (and I guess other mailers - I'm going to talk on what I
    NM> know and then let other folks talk on the other MTAs), can
    NM> handle stuff based on regular expressions, so given a list x
    NM> (matched by some magic - current config does it by checking if
    NM> the file /home/mailman/lists/x/config.db exists) its dead easy
    NM> to match an address suffix (I think the postfix folks call
    NM> this an extension ) -(admin|request|join|leave|bounces|owner)

Note that the current approach to auto-aliasing for Postfix actually
does set up each and every alias -- no regexp matching is done.  It's
just that I know the format Postfix uses and we can write that format
in Python, so updating them is hidden from the admin.

Aside 1: I believe Fil has an alternative approach for Postfix
that does use regexps.

Aside 2: My current approach for Postfix may cause some logistical
problems because it requires that the version of Berkeley DB that
Postfix is linked against be the same as the version that Python is
linked against, and it's notoriously hard to get this right in
Python.  Especially in Python 2.0.x which doesn't build the bsddb
module by default (though Python 2.1.x does, which is one of the
reasons I'm considering requiring it for MM2.1).

Aside 3: MM2.1 won't use marshal as it's serialization format any
more; it uses pickle so the landmark file needs to be config.pck
instead (although that file will only exist after the first time the
list is opened and saved -- we could make sure the upgrade script does
this for every list though).

Aside 4: There was an interesting idea, in SF I think, that maybe the
MTA should just delivery to an mbox file, and then Mailman's qrunners
should just walk the mbox file.  We'd have to coordinate locking b/w
Mailman and the MTA, so that could be problematic.  OTOH, it would
save having to fork the wrapper script just to dump the plain text in
the queue.y

    NM> However, since the argument to wrapper varies with the
    NM> extension I then need an additional lookup to convert that
    NM> extention to the wrapper command.

    NM> So, for exim, life would be much easier if I could handle
    NM> these (excluding the post command) by having

    |   (.+)-(admin|request|join|leave|bounces|owner)
    | map to
    |      |wrapper $2 $1

    NM> [$1 & $2 are the regexp matches from the expression above]

    NM> Barry - any chance of regularising the naming of the entry
    NM> points, or adding aliases for admin, request and owner??  I
    NM> would guess this approach would work for several different
    NM> mailers.

I've thought the same thing.  I avoided in the past because it would
have required regeneration of aliases, but now that we've bit that
bullet, I think it does make sense to regularize them.  I'll have to
see if I can get SF to make copies of the cvs files so I can preserve
the historical record, but I think it's a good idea.

    | BTW VERP could be handled by changing the intitial regexp to
    |   ([a-z0-9_-]*)-(admin|request|join|leave|bounces|owner)(\+.*)

VERP format will be very configurable, so as long as you can write a
Python regexp to pull it apart, you can basically tell Mailman to use
any VERP format you want.

    NM> An alternative approach might be that all addresses that are
    NM> caught by the MTA list matching stuff are passed direct into
    NM> the Mailman address handler, so you just invoked wrapper
    NM> mailman-address-handler 
    

    NM> and let the python do the magic from there on.

I've found it convenient to do a little bit of preprocessing in the
wrapper script and knowing beforehand which alias the message is being
delivered to.  One reason is because I don't want to force the
wrappers to parse the email messages.  Parsing is expensive, and
potentially error prone, and the wrapper can't gracefully handle the
errors without a lot of complexity.  Which slows things down.  Which
increases the possibility of mail filter timeout.  Which we definitely
want to avoid at all costs.

To sum up: let's regularize the wrapper script names so that they are
the same as the extension they feed off of (sans the separating dash).
One catch is for the -admin address; I want this to go to the bounces
script for backwards compatibility.  So I guess we need to make a
symlink from scripts/bounces -> scripts/admin ...?

    NM> 	Nigel.

-Barry

    NM> If it was then possible to

Maybe, but only if we


From barry@zope.com  Wed Nov 21 23:27:13 2001
From: barry@zope.com (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 18:27:13 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] MTA interface for MM 2.1
References: <1006383631.9585.0.camel@rincewind.localnet>
 <26088.1006384724@kanga.nu>
Message-ID: <15356.14417.881311.857135@anthem.wooz.org>

>>>>> "JCL" == J C Lawrence  writes:

    JCL> It seems like it would be wise/good to also support:

    |   x-subscribe            |wrapper subscribe x
    |   x-unsubscribe          |wrapper unsubscribe x

    JCL> ie making "subscribe" an alias for "join" and ditto for
    JCL> leave/unsubscribe.  Its a small thing, but I suspect it would
    JCL> reduce confusion.

We can do that.  Same issue as I just brought up with -admin: I
suppose we do this with symlinks (in the Makefile).

-Barry


From barry@zope.com  Wed Nov 21 23:31:30 2001
From: barry@zope.com (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 18:31:30 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] MTA interface for MM 2.1
References: <1006383631.9585.0.camel@rincewind.localnet>
 <26088.1006384724@kanga.nu>
Message-ID: <15356.14674.736312.261819@anthem.wooz.org>

One other thing:

In MM2.1 you'll have to set up a "site list" which is where

- all password reminders appear to come from
- all bounces to list owners will be directed to

By default this site list is called "mailman".  So if a message to a
list owner starts to bounce, mailman-bounces@dom.ain will get those
notifications.  However, what happens if messages to
mailman-owner@dom.ain start to bounce?

To break the loop I'm currently creating a mailman-loop@dom.ain
address that all bounces to the site list's owner gets directed to.
This address is a simple append-to-file alias since there's little
that Mailman can do if the site list owners aren't reachable.  It
currently appends to $prefix/data/owner-bounces.mbox.

-Barry


From bob@nleaudio.com  Wed Nov 21 23:35:13 2001
From: bob@nleaudio.com (Bob Puff/NLE)
Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 18:35:13 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] MTA interface for MM 2.1
References: <1006383631.9585.0.camel@rincewind.localnet> <15356.14254.146387.1617@anthem.wooz.org>
Message-ID: <3BFC3A31.250972FB@nleaudio.com>

> I actually don't plan on updating auto for MM2.1.  To use it requires
> you to configure Postfix in ways that could interact poorly with other
> parts of your mail system, depending on your topology.  I'm not sure
> if I should leave it around for posterity, or just zap it.

Hey Barry,

So then are you saying that you are going to nuke the list creation stuff?

If it will stay, also please think about updating the Postfix virtual file.  That is necessary on any system receiving mail for more than one domain.

Bob


From barry@zope.com  Wed Nov 21 23:41:13 2001
From: barry@zope.com (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 18:41:13 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] MTA interface for MM 2.1
References: <1006383631.9585.0.camel@rincewind.localnet>
 <15356.14254.146387.1617@anthem.wooz.org>
 <3BFC3A31.250972FB@nleaudio.com>
Message-ID: <15356.15257.411583.111041@anthem.wooz.org>

>>>>> "BP" == Bob Puff  writes:

    BP> So then are you saying that you are going to nuke the list
    BP> creation stuff?

No, definitely not!

    BP> If it will stay, also please think about updating the Postfix
    BP> virtual file.  That is necessary on any system receiving mail
    BP> for more than one domain.

Hmm, my current approach has simply been to write db entries to a file
pointed to by the alias_maps variable.  I need to think about this
approach in the face of virtual domains...

-Barry


From claw@kanga.nu  Wed Nov 21 23:46:31 2001
From: claw@kanga.nu (J C Lawrence)
Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 15:46:31 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] MTA interface for MM 2.1
In-Reply-To: Message from barry@zope.com (Barry A. Warsaw)
 of "Wed, 21 Nov 2001 18:24:30 EST." <15356.14254.146387.1617@anthem.wooz.org>
References: <1006383631.9585.0.camel@rincewind.localnet>  <15356.14254.146387.1617@anthem.wooz.org>
Message-ID: <26549.1006386391@kanga.nu>

On Wed, 21 Nov 2001 18:24:30 -0500 
Barry A Warsaw  wrote:

> I actually don't plan on updating auto for MM2.1.  To use it
> requires you to configure Postfix in ways that could interact
> poorly with other parts of your mail system, depending on your
> topology.  I'm not sure if I should leave it around for posterity,
> or just zap it.

Drop it in an "unsupported" subdirectory?

-- 
J C Lawrence
---------(*)                Satan, oscillate my metallic sonatas.
claw@kanga.nu               He lived as a devil, eh?
http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/  Evil is a name of a foeman, as I live.


From bob@nleaudio.com  Wed Nov 21 23:47:22 2001
From: bob@nleaudio.com (Bob Puff/NLE)
Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 18:47:22 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] MTA interface for MM 2.1
References: <1006383631.9585.0.camel@rincewind.localnet>
 <15356.14254.146387.1617@anthem.wooz.org>
 <3BFC3A31.250972FB@nleaudio.com> <15356.15257.411583.111041@anthem.wooz.org>
Message-ID: <3BFC3D0A.14778C99@nleaudio.com>

> Hmm, my current approach has simply been to write db entries to a file
> pointed to by the alias_maps variable. 

Right, and this is still necessary.  But the virtual maps are also equally as important, since the newbies are still gonna say "Why is mail to the list bouncing if it automagically creates everything?!".

Updating the /etc/postfix/virtual file takes the Postfix postmap command to generate its database file, which is a little different from the postalias program that you run/emulate now.

Bob


From barry@zope.com  Thu Nov 22 00:40:54 2001
From: barry@zope.com (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 19:40:54 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] MTA interface for MM 2.1
References: <1006383631.9585.0.camel@rincewind.localnet>
 <15356.14254.146387.1617@anthem.wooz.org>
 <26549.1006386391@kanga.nu>
Message-ID: <15356.18838.964122.990455@anthem.wooz.org>

>>>>> "JCL" == J C Lawrence  writes:

    JCL> Drop it in an "unsupported" subdirectory?

Maybe just `contrib'.

-Barry


From jon@latchkey.com  Thu Nov 22 00:43:59 2001
From: jon@latchkey.com (Jon Stevens)
Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 16:43:59 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] MTA interface for MM 2.1
In-Reply-To: <26088.1006384724@kanga.nu>
Message-ID: 

on 11/21/01 3:18 PM, "J C Lawrence"  wrote:

> Barry,
> 
> It seems like it would be wise/good to also support:
> 
> x-subscribe            |wrapper subscribe x
> x-unsubscribe          |wrapper unsubscribe x
> 
> ie making "subscribe" an alias for "join" and ditto for
> leave/unsubscribe.  Its a small thing, but I suspect it would reduce
> confusion.

I would love to see...

x-on
x-off

Also map to x-subscribe/x-unsubscribe

-jon



From barry@zope.com  Thu Nov 22 00:46:53 2001
From: barry@zope.com (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 19:46:53 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] MTA interface for MM 2.1
References: <26088.1006384724@kanga.nu>
 
Message-ID: <15356.19197.511308.859410@anthem.wooz.org>

>>>>> "JS" == Jon Stevens  writes:

    | x-on
    | x-off

    JS> Also map to x-subscribe/x-unsubscribe

I sort of felt that x-join and x-leave were natural and easy to
understand without resorting to mailing list nomenclature.  I'd like
to keep the set of standard aliases to a minimum.

-Barry


From christopher@schulte.org  Thu Nov 22 04:45:15 2001
From: christopher@schulte.org (Christopher Schulte)
Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 22:45:15 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] MTA interface for MM 2.1
In-Reply-To: <3BFC3D0A.14778C99@nleaudio.com>
References: <1006383631.9585.0.camel@rincewind.localnet>
 <15356.14254.146387.1617@anthem.wooz.org>
 <3BFC3A31.250972FB@nleaudio.com>
 <15356.15257.411583.111041@anthem.wooz.org>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20011121224007.03168570@pop.schulte.org>

At 06:47 PM 11/21/2001 -0500, Bob Puff/NLE wrote:
>Right, and this is still necessary.  But the virtual maps are also equally 
>as important, since the newbies are still gonna say "Why is mail to the 
>list bouncing if it automagically creates everything?!".

You have to draw the line as to how far you're going to 'dummy proof' your 
software.  Not everyone uses virtual maps in this manner.  I don't.

>Updating the /etc/postfix/virtual file takes the Postfix postmap command 
>to generate its database file, which is a little different from the 
>postalias program that you run/emulate now.

I won't let any automatic process touch my master virtual file.  The 
current setup (as of 2.1a3) works just fine; it takes control of one 
specific file which I bless.  I then make postfix include it in alias 
processing.  It's simple and works.  Move it to ./contrib if needed, but 
please don't toss it.

>Bob

--
Christopher Schulte
christopher@schulte.org
http://noc.schulte.org/



From bob@nleaudio.com  Thu Nov 22 05:52:47 2001
From: bob@nleaudio.com (bob@nleaudio.com)
Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2001 00:52:47 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] MTA interface for MM 2.1
Message-ID: <20011122055247.4B8AB13D127@main.nlenet.net>

This is a MIME-encapsulated message.

--------------463755580774767922290689
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit


>I won't let any automatic process touch my master virtual file.  The 
>current setup (as of 2.1a3) works just fine; it takes control of one 
>specific file which I bless.  I then make postfix include it in alias 
>processing.  It's simple and works.  

How are you then letting Postfix know what domain you are adding the list to?

If it only does half the job of creating the list, it isn't fulfilling its
function of automatically creating the list without needing the sysadmin to
do it for you, or having to edit the files yourself.

Also remember you don't have to have an automated process touch your master
virtual mapping file.  Do the same thing Barry did for the aliases file - use
an _additional_ file, and tell Postfix where it is, and to use it in addition 
to the master file.

Bob


--------------463755580774767922290689--


From barry@zope.com  Thu Nov 22 07:07:28 2001
From: barry@zope.com (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2001 02:07:28 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] MTA interface for MM 2.1
References: <20011122055247.4B8AB13D127@main.nlenet.net>
Message-ID: <15356.42032.51456.803284@anthem.wooz.org>

>>>>> "bob" ==    writes:

    bob> Also remember you don't have to have an automated process
    bob> touch your master virtual mapping file.  Do the same thing
    bob> Barry did for the aliases file - use an _additional_ file,
    bob> and tell Postfix where it is, and to use it in addition to
    bob> the master file.

I figured out how to support Postfix-style virtual domains[1] in a
similar manner to the main aliases file, but I'm too tired to finish
implementing it tonight.

Bob's right, if you're using Postfix-style virtual domains, we need to
write into another file, and it doesn't need to be your main virtual
file.  In fact, it'll be called $prefix/data/virtual-mailman and
you'll need to add something like that path to your virtual_maps
variable (and /not/ run postmap on it!  We'll take care of that for
you).

If you're not using virtual domains, or you're using Sendmail-style
virtual domains, we don't need to do anything extra.  There will be an
mm_cfg variable POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS, defaulting to 0, which
you'll set to 1 if you're doing Postfix-style virtual domains.

to-sleep-perchance-to-dream-of-mtas-ly y'rs,
-Barry

[1] http://www.postfix.org/virtual.5.html


From Nigel.Metheringham@VData.co.uk  Thu Nov 22 10:32:28 2001
From: Nigel.Metheringham@VData.co.uk (Nigel Metheringham)
Date: 22 Nov 2001 10:32:28 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] MTA interface for MM 2.1
In-Reply-To: <15356.14254.146387.1617@anthem.wooz.org>
References: <1006383631.9585.0.camel@rincewind.localnet>
 <15356.14254.146387.1617@anthem.wooz.org>
Message-ID: <1006425149.31382.0.camel@gaspode.localnet>

On Wed, 2001-11-21 at 23:24, Barry A. Warsaw wrote:
> 
> >>>>> "NM" == Nigel Metheringham  writes:
>     NM> An alternative approach might be that all addresses that are
>     NM> caught by the MTA list matching stuff are passed direct into
>     NM> the Mailman address handler, so you just invoked wrapper
>     NM> mailman-address-handler 
    
>     NM> and let the python do the magic from there on.
> 
> I've found it convenient to do a little bit of preprocessing in the
> wrapper script and knowing beforehand which alias the message is being
> delivered to.  One reason is because I don't want to force the
> wrappers to parse the email messages.  Parsing is expensive, and
> potentially error prone, and the wrapper can't gracefully handle the
> errors without a lot of complexity.  Which slows things down.  Which
> increases the possibility of mail filter timeout.  Which we definitely
> want to avoid at all costs.

Barry, what I was suggesting is that Mailman parses the address, not the
message, so a message to the list would be piped in to

	|superwrapper x@dom.ain

a join request would be passed in to

	|superwrapper x-join@dom.ain

and a VERP bounce would go to

	|superwrapper x-bounces+sub=their.dom.ain@dom.ain


For exim handling this is getting into the seriously trivial catagory,
and I would expect most other MTAs to find it easy.  The @dom.ain bit
could be optional, but might have future expansion possibilities for the
virtual domain handling some people want.

	Nigel.



From mhz@alt-linux.org  Thu Nov 22 23:13:54 2001
From: mhz@alt-linux.org (Mikhail Zabaluev)
Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2001 02:13:54 +0300
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] I18n proposal
In-Reply-To: <87bshwcvzu.fsf@nausicaa.interq.or.jp>
References: <20011121070733.GB20256@localhost.localdomain> <87bshwcvzu.fsf@nausicaa.interq.or.jp>
Message-ID: <20011122231354.GG2158@localhost.localdomain>

Hello Ben,

On Wed, Nov 21, 2001 at 06:29:41PM +0900, Ben Gertzfield wrote:
>
>     Mikhail> The most serious bug I see here is that messages encoded
>     Mikhail> in base64 still get decorated with plaintext.
> 
> Headers or bodies? 

Oh, and headers hurt too, when someone replies with the mailing list
label in the subject hidden inside a base64 encoded word, and Mailman
slaps another label, ad infinitum. The subject context should be decoded
prior to searching for the label.

> Are you talking about the footer tacked on to the
> end of messages?  If so, it would be simple with the new message
> structure to make the footer be a separate text part.  Though, I
> don't see how adding some plain text after the end of the boundary
> could be corrupted; could you put an example corrupted message up?

Cannot find one right now, but I see them every now and then on our
Russian lists. Base64 is not a robust encoding; any non-base64 text
appended to a base64 stream produces garbage when decoded.
Decorating such messages with separate MIME part would be a better
solution than fiddle with decoding/recoding.

>     Mikhail> Another problem is encoded messages in archives. Heck,
>     Mikhail> look at this list's archive to see what I'm talking
>     Mikhail> about. Those should also be decoded and have character
>     Mikhail> set converted to some uniform one. I'd suggest UTF-8, but
>     Mikhail> many browsers and text viewers still don't grok this
>     Mikhail> charset, so it'd better be selectable as well.
> 
> I talked with Barry about this today.  My solution is to "guess" the
> character set based on whichever is most common in the archives, and
> use that as the charset specified in the HTML.

It's unreliable, can change over time, and will certainly cause
problems. Leave the administrator control over which charset his list
archives are served in. For storage, I'd still choose encoding
everything into UTF-8; this makes archives independent of the target
charset and resolves problems with multi-language messages.

> For any messages with
> multi-language subjects or bodies, the main language will be left
> in the normal character set, and the multi-language parts will be
> encoded with the UTF-8 HTML entity.

For starters, this could be done for all non-ASCII symbols.

> This will require Python unicode codecs for all our languages, which
> do not exist for KOI-8, Big5, or GB, as far as I know.

iconv-based codecs should exist for these; I must see.

-- 
Stay tuned,
  MhZ                                     JID: mookid@jabber.org
___________
The best audience is intelligent, well-educated and a little drunk.
		-- Maurice Baring


From marc_news@valinux.com  Thu Nov 22 19:06:01 2001
From: marc_news@valinux.com (Marc MERLIN)
Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2001 11:06:01 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Having more than 16,000 lists
In-Reply-To: <20011109173447.B32688@gandalf.merlins.org>; from marc_news@valinux.com on Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 05:34:47PM -0800
References: <87hesmbysl.fsf@nausicaa.interq.or.jp>  <20011026181219.O12632@magic.merlins.org> <15322.8042.967043.536680@anthem.wooz.org> <20011109173447.B32688@gandalf.merlins.org>
Message-ID: <20011122110601.A1279@gandalf.merlins.org>

On Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 05:34:47PM -0800, Marc MERLIN wrote:
> On Fri, Oct 26, 2001 at 10:43:54PM -0400, Barry A. Warsaw wrote:
> >     MM> Just for the record, Sourceforge just hit the 16,000 lists
> >     MM> limit today and broke because ext2fs doesn't support more than
> >     MM> 32,000 links to a directory (archives/private had 32,000
> >     MM> archive dirs) I'm told freebsd's UFS has similar problems.
> > 
> > Wow, neat!  Not for you, but neat. :)
>  
> BTW, I ended up removing all the HTML archive directories since I've turned
> off HTML archiving anyway.
> That gives  us a little  while (more  than six months  if we are  lucky :-D)
> before we hit the 32,000 lists mark.
> 
> I'm thinking  about an optional  modification to mailman which  only affects
> list  creation that  creates  the mailman/foo/l/li/listname  dirs, and  then
> symlinks all this to mailman/foo/listname
> Yeah, symlinks aren't great, but the advantage is that it requires no other
> changes to the mailman code

I  haven't  yet  had the  time  to  work  on  this,  but I  wanted  to  know
what  your   preference  was   between  a   hack  that   optionally  creates
mailman/foo/l/li/listname dirs  at the  time the list  is created,  and then
sets symlinks back to where the rest  of the mailman code expects to see the
files and  dirs, or a bigger  change to teach  all of mailman about  the new
file and dir location (no more symlinks)
Of course, if we go with the no symlink route, making the deep subdir config
optional would be a bit more work.

What's your take on this, and which route would you prefer?

Marc
-- 
Microsoft is to operating systems & security ....
                                      .... what McDonalds is to gourmet cooking
  
Home page: http://marc.merlins.org/   |   Finger marc_f@merlins.org for PGP key


From roy@lamrim.com  Fri Nov 23 03:23:52 2001
From: roy@lamrim.com (Roy Harvey)
Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2001 19:23:52 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Orwellian Archives?
In-Reply-To: <15340.23456.886142.932986@anthem.wooz.org>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20011122192352.01046d20@lamrim.com>

Dear Barry --

Is there a way to remove individual messages from the archives?

Thanks,

Roy


From mrbill@mrbill.net  Fri Nov 23 08:59:26 2001
From: mrbill@mrbill.net (Bill Bradford)
Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2001 02:59:26 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Orwellian Archives?
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20011122192352.01046d20@lamrim.com>
References: <15340.23456.886142.932986@anthem.wooz.org> <3.0.5.32.20011122192352.01046d20@lamrim.com>
Message-ID: <20011123025926.O1519@mrbill.net>

On Thu, Nov 22, 2001 at 07:23:52PM -0800, Roy Harvey wrote:
> Dear Barry --
> Is there a way to remove individual messages from the archives?
> Thanks,
> Roy

When I've had to do this, I just go edit that HTML file by hand and replace the
message text with "THIS MESSAGE HAS BEEN REMOVED".

Had a couple of "for sale" posts that kept coming up in Google and I kept
getting email from people a year later (almost one a day!) about "do you
still have your X10 stuff for sale?"  I finally went in and put this in
the message archive HTML:


     THIS ITEM IS NO LONGER FOR SALE.  DONT EMAIL ME ABOUT IT 
    

Couple of days later, the emails stopped. 8-)

Bill

-- 
Bill Bradford
mrbill@mrbill.net
Austin, TX


From bob@nleaudio.com  Fri Nov 23 17:18:12 2001
From: bob@nleaudio.com (bob@nleaudio.com)
Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2001 12:18:12 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Orwellian Archives?
Message-ID: <20011123171812.9292E13D127@main.nlenet.net>

This is a MIME-encapsulated message.

--------------265557734833714487252383
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

I use an editor called Joe that edit the .mbox file, then blast away the 
archives and rebuild them with $prefix/bin/arch .  Takes a while for 
big archives, but it works.  If you do delete messages (which is done by simply 
cutting the whole thing, headers and all), remember that when you rebuild the 
archives, messages subsequent to the one(s) you nuked will be renumbered.  So if 
people reference messages in URLs, they may no longer be valid... Which might 
give credence to the method listed below of simply editing the body of the 
message.

Bob

>On Thu, Nov 22, 2001 at 07:23:52PM -0800, Roy Harvey wrote:
>> Dear Barry --
>> Is there a way to remove individual messages from the archives?
>> Thanks,
>> Roy
>
>When I've had to do this, I just go edit that HTML file by hand and replace the
>message text with "THIS MESSAGE HAS BEEN REMOVED".
>
>Had a couple of "for sale" posts that kept coming up in Google and I kept
>getting email from people a year later (almost one a day!) about "do you
>still have your X10 stuff for sale?"  I finally went in and put this in
>the message archive HTML:
>
>
     THIS ITEM IS NO LONGER FOR SALE.  DONT EMAIL ME ABOUT IT 
    
>
>Couple of days later, the emails stopped. 8-)
>
>Bill
>
>-- 
>Bill Bradford
>mrbill@mrbill.net
>Austin, TX
>
>_______________________________________________
>Mailman-Developers mailing list
>Mailman-Developers@python.org
>http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers
>


--------------265557734833714487252383--


From barry@zope.com  Sat Nov 24 00:00:16 2001
From: barry@zope.com (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2001 19:00:16 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Postfix virtual domains (was Re: MTA interface for MM 2.1)
References: <20011122055247.4B8AB13D127@main.nlenet.net>
 <15356.42032.51456.803284@anthem.wooz.org>
Message-ID: <15358.58128.171496.58848@anthem.wooz.org>

>>>>> "BAW" == Barry A Warsaw  writes:

    BAW> I figured out how to support Postfix-style virtual domains[1]
    BAW> in a similar manner to the main aliases file, but I'm too
    BAW> tired to finish implementing it tonight.

I'm about to check this stuff in, but it's a little kludgy.  I may not
entirely understand Postfix-style virtual domains, so let me ask this:

Let's say I have two domains, er, dom1.com and dom2.com, and MX for
both of these point to the same IP.  It seems to me that I have to
have at least one of them in the mydestinations variable in main.cf.

So let's say I put dom1.com in mydestinations, and I want dom2.com to
be a Postfix-virtual domain, so I set up a virtual_maps file with some
common addresses like postmaster@dom2.com.  To work with Mailman, I'll
also add /usr/local/mailman/data/virtual-dom2.com virtual_maps.  The
.db file will contain the BerkeleyDB mappings equivalent to the
plaintext file .../data/virtual-dom2.com containing stuff like:

-------------------- snip snip --------------------
# This file is generated by Mailman, and is kept in sync with the binary hash
# file virtual-mailman.db.  YOU SHOULD NOT MANUALLY EDIT THIS FILE unless you
# know what you're doing, and can keep the two files properly in sync.  If you
# screw it up, you're on your own.

dom2.com 	IGNORE
# For breaking bounce loops to the site list owners
mailman-loop@dom2.com: mailman-loop

# STANZA START: testlist
# CREATED: Fri Nov 23 18:39:34 2001
testlist@dom2.com:          testlist
testlist-admin@dom2.com:    testlist-admin
testlist-bounces@dom2.com:  testlist-bounces
testlist-join@dom2.com:     testlist-join
testlist-leave@dom2.com:    testlist-leave
testlist-owner@dom2.com:    testlist-owner
testlist-request@dom2.com:  testlist-request
# STANZA END: testlist
-------------------- snip snip --------------------

For convenience, I'll create a pair of these for every domain for
which there are lists (i.e. for every unique mlist.host_name).  Now
the kludges:

If dom1.com is set in mydestinations, then you /should not/ add
data/virtual-dom1.com to virtual_maps, even though bin/genaliases will
create a file for it.  It's too complicated to prevent the writing of
data/virtual-dom1.com, so just ignore it.

It seems like there's no way to prevent sending a message to
list-in-dom2@dom1.com working exactly the same as
list-in-dom2@dom2.com.  This is because list-in-dom2 must have an
entry both in the aliases file and the virtual file (with the virtual
file entries pointing to the aliases entries), and the alias entries
always work for mydestination domains.  Maybe other Postfix experts
can help with this, but to me, it's not worth worrying about.

Anyway, changes coming to Defaults.py.in, Mailman/MTA/Postfix.py and
bin/genaliases.  Comments are welcome!

-Barry


From liuk@publinet.it  Sat Nov 24 17:20:19 2001
From: liuk@publinet.it (Luca Maranzano)
Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2001 18:20:19 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] bin/update error from latest CVS
Message-ID: <20011124182019.A9188@publinet.it>

Hello all,

I've tryed to install the latest CVS update of today, but when I do a
'make install' I get the following error:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "bin/update", line 47, in ?
    from Mailman import MailList
  File "/home/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 58, in ?
    from Mailman.SecurityManager import SecurityManager
  File "/home/mailman/Mailman/SecurityManager.py", line 62, in ?
    from Cookie import SimpleCookie as Cookie
ImportError: cannot import name SimpleCookie
make: *** [update] Error 1

Any idea? All the Web UI reports the same error! :-(

--luca




From liuk@publinet.it  Sat Nov 24 17:51:18 2001
From: liuk@publinet.it (Luca Maranzano)
Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2001 18:51:18 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Bug in Mailman/SecurityManager.py about SimpleCookie?
In-Reply-To: <20011124182019.A9188@publinet.it>
References: <20011124182019.A9188@publinet.it>
Message-ID: <20011124185118.A9357@publinet.it>

It seems that the problem is in Mailman/SecurityManager.py, I've tryed
to substitute this line

from Cookie import SimpleCookie as Cookie

with this

import Cookie

and now at least something is working again, but obviously all the Web
authentication is broken.

BTW, python 2.0.1.

--luca


On Sat, Nov 24, 2001 at 06:20:19PM +0100, Luca Maranzano wrote:
> Hello all,
> 
> I've tryed to install the latest CVS update of today, but when I do a
> 'make install' I get the following error:
> 
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "bin/update", line 47, in ?
>     from Mailman import MailList
>   File "/home/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 58, in ?
>     from Mailman.SecurityManager import SecurityManager
>   File "/home/mailman/Mailman/SecurityManager.py", line 62, in ?
>     from Cookie import SimpleCookie as Cookie
> ImportError: cannot import name SimpleCookie
> make: *** [update] Error 1
> 
> Any idea? All the Web UI reports the same error! :-(
> 
> --luca
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Mailman-Developers mailing list
> Mailman-Developers@python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers


From barry@zope.com  Sat Nov 24 18:51:48 2001
From: barry@zope.com (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2001 13:51:48 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Bug in Mailman/SecurityManager.py about SimpleCookie?
References: <20011124182019.A9188@publinet.it>
 <20011124185118.A9357@publinet.it>
Message-ID: <15359.60484.146765.374994@anthem.wooz.org>

Just remove $prefix/Mailman/Cookie.py and Cookie.pyc so you'll pick up
the Python standard version.  The bin/update script in cvs has been
fixed to delete these files automatically on next upgrade.

-Barry


From jra@baylink.com  Sun Nov 25 05:22:39 2001
From: jra@baylink.com (Jay R. Ashworth)
Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2001 00:22:39 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] DNS and mailing lists -- an idea
In-Reply-To: <20011122231354.GG2158@localhost.localdomain>; from Mikhail Zabaluev  on Fri, Nov 23, 2001 at 02:13:54AM +0300
References: <20011121070733.GB20256@localhost.localdomain> <87bshwcvzu.fsf@nausicaa.interq.or.jp> <20011122231354.GG2158@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <20011125002239.24068@scfn.thpl.lib.fl.us>

This may well be properly a proposal that is germane to *all* MTA's,
not just those which support MLM's, but it will probably help the
latter more, (and I hang out here :-), so I figured I'd bounce it off
you guys first.

I just got caught in a DNS crash.  My personal domain is hidden
primaried on a loop at the office of the guy I subcontract for (as is
his domain, and a couple other things, but that's not material).

He's closing office, and we're going back to working out of our houses,
and the ISP apparently yanked the loop a week and a half early.
Without notice.

I didn't notice it until the public secondary for my domain timed the
zone out and started returning SERVFAIL messages to people sending me
mail... in consequence of which, I didn't get any mail for 3 and a half
days.

Luckily, it was a slow week, thanks to Thanksgiving (:-), so I only got
200 messages to sort through when the majority of it came in this
afternoon -- but even that was only because I finally got ahold of the
secondary DNS server op, and had him plug in the last copy of my master
file (which he used to maintain -- luckily, he's a *good* op, he hadn't
nuked it).

The *reason* that that fix worked, and my having set up a new server
and fixed my zone glue *didn't*, of course, is those ugly things called
"caching servers", and that's why you're all listening to this
(assuming, of course, that you still are... ;-)

I've been told that it's good practice for heavily trafficked mail and
web servers to have local (ie: on the same machine) caching DNS servers
to speed up mailer DNS lookups, and therefore load the networks less.

It occurred to me, riding home tonight from a concert and doing the
After Action in my head from the whole fiasco, that there might be
something productive in a script that could crawl the pending mail log
looking for signs that some large batch of mail is pending for bad
reasons.  Caching accidents happen to everyone occasionally... and if
one happes to your list with 4000 people on AOL, it could get ugly.

If such a script could restart the associated name daemon, flushing
it's cache, it would save a lot of delay and concern for various groups
of people, I think.  Assuming you could create a good heuristic for
deciding when to dump the cache... which shouldn't be too hard, since
a false dump isn't too painful.

So, am I missing something obvious here?  Will an MTA *without* a
caching server actually be affected less (because it's making direct
lookup calls to the zone servers in question)?  It's an area,
admittedly, in which I'm a touch weak... which is why I'm asking
y'all.

Cheers,
-- jra
-- 
Jay R. Ashworth                                                jra@baylink.com
Member of the Technical Staff     Baylink                             RFC 2100
The Suncoast Freenet         The Things I Think
Tampa Bay, Florida        http://baylink.pitas.com             +1 727 804 5015

   "If you don't have a dream; how're you gonna have a dream come true?"
     -- Captain Sensible, The Damned (from South Pacific's "Happy Talk")


From claw@kanga.nu  Sun Nov 25 08:04:34 2001
From: claw@kanga.nu (J C Lawrence)
Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2001 00:04:34 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] DNS and mailing lists -- an idea
In-Reply-To: Message from "Jay R. Ashworth" 
 of "Sun, 25 Nov 2001 00:22:39 EST." <20011125002239.24068@scfn.thpl.lib.fl.us>
References: <20011121070733.GB20256@localhost.localdomain> <87bshwcvzu.fsf@nausicaa.interq.or.jp> <20011122231354.GG2158@localhost.localdomain>  <20011125002239.24068@scfn.thpl.lib.fl.us>
Message-ID: <7774.1006675474@kanga.nu>

On Sun, 25 Nov 2001 00:22:39 -0500 
Jay R Ashworth  wrote:

> It occurred to me, riding home tonight from a concert and doing
> the After Action in my head from the whole fiasco, that there
> might be something productive in a script that could crawl the
> pending mail log looking for signs that some large batch of mail
> is pending for bad reasons.  

Which is a generically Good Thing.  In larger installations I like
to move spool entries for slow MX'es off the main production MTA and
off to a box specifically configured for handling slow MXes (I do
domain routing on the primary MX for the one's I've already
identified).

> Caching accidents happen to everyone occasionally... 

Frankly: Never seen one.  Certainly not on a client end.
Experiences like yours, sure, but that's a rather different deal.

> and if one happens to your list with 4000 people on AOL, it could
> get ugly.

Quite.  It would hurt most lists if the auto-unsubscribed AOL as
bouncing due to, say, bad DNS (which could happen thru simple route
flaps/'net connectivity problems on *your* end).

> If such a script could restart the associated name daemon,
> flushing it's cache, it would save a lot of delay and concern for
> various groups of people, I think.  Assuming you could create a
> good heuristic for deciding when to dump the cache... which
> shouldn't be too hard, since a false dump isn't too painful.

Actually I use pdnsd which keeps a copy of its cache on disk, so
restarts get the same cache as before...

More simply, I don't see this buys you anything.  If AOL is not
reporting it won't be in your cache.  Non-answers are not cached,
only valid mappings are cached.  

> So, am I missing something obvious here?  Will an MTA *without* a
> caching server actually be affected less (because it's making
> direct lookup calls to the zone servers in question)?  It's an
> area, admittedly, in which I'm a touch weak... which is why I'm
> asking y'all.

Typically the local nsd will do a certain amount of local cacheing
(usually the last response or two) within the current application
scope.  Certain MTAs will (or can be configured to) cache the MX
lookups in the spool files (a generally Bad Idea, but it can be a
savings in heavily loaded cases)..

-- 
J C Lawrence
---------(*)                Satan, oscillate my metallic sonatas.
claw@kanga.nu               He lived as a devil, eh?
http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/  Evil is a name of a foeman, as I live.


From tollef@add.no  Mon Nov 26 00:19:01 2001
From: tollef@add.no (Tollef Fog Heen)
Date: 26 Nov 2001 01:19:01 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Postfix virtual domains
In-Reply-To: <15358.58128.171496.58848@anthem.wooz.org>
References: <20011122055247.4B8AB13D127@main.nlenet.net>
 <15356.42032.51456.803284@anthem.wooz.org>
 <15358.58128.171496.58848@anthem.wooz.org>
Message-ID: <874rnil6yy.fsf_-_@arabella.intern.opera.no>

*  (Barry A. Warsaw)

| >>>>> "BAW" == Barry A Warsaw  writes:
| 
|     BAW> I figured out how to support Postfix-style virtual domains[1]
|     BAW> in a similar manner to the main aliases file, but I'm too
|     BAW> tired to finish implementing it tonight.
| 
| I'm about to check this stuff in, but it's a little kludgy.  I may not
| entirely understand Postfix-style virtual domains, so let me ask this:
| 
| Let's say I have two domains, er, dom1.com and dom2.com, and MX for
| both of these point to the same IP.  It seems to me that I have to
| have at least one of them in the mydestinations variable in main.cf.

No, you don't have to have any of them in mydestination in main.cf:

# The mydestination parameter specifies the list of domains that this
# machine considers itself the final destination for. That does not
# include domains that are hosted on this machine. Those domains are
# specified elsewhere (see sample-virtual.cf, and sample-transport.cf).

| It seems like there's no way to prevent sending a message to
| list-in-dom2@dom1.com working exactly the same as
| list-in-dom2@dom2.com.  This is because list-in-dom2 must have an
| entry both in the aliases file and the virtual file (with the virtual
| file entries pointing to the aliases entries), and the alias entries
| always work for mydestination domains.  Maybe other Postfix experts
| can help with this, but to me, it's not worth worrying about.

I've usually hacked around this by doing something like

-------------------- snip snip --------------------
dom2.com 	IGNORE
# For breaking bounce loops to the site list owners
mailman-loop@dom2.com: mailman-loop

# STANZA START: testlist
# CREATED: Fri Nov 23 18:39:34 2001
testlist@dom2.com:          com-dom2-testlist
testlist-admin@dom2.com:    com-dom2-testlist-admin
testlist-bounces@dom2.com:  com-dom2-testlist-bounces
testlist-join@dom2.com:     com-dom2-testlist-join
testlist-leave@dom2.com:    com-dom2-testlist-leave
testlist-owner@dom2.com:    com-dom2-testlist-owner
testlist-request@dom2.com:  com-dom2-testlist-request
# STANZA END: testlist
-------------------- snip snip --------------------

So that all aliases in the dom2.com domain is on the form
com-dom2-$ADDRESS.

afaik (and see), this is one of the better ways of avoiding name
clashes.

-- 

Tollef Fog Heen
Axiom #1: You Can't Win


From jmeurer@gmx.de  Mon Nov 26 15:59:56 2001
From: jmeurer@gmx.de (Jonas Meurer)
Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 16:59:56 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] questions about gate_news
Message-ID: <20011126165956.A3376@testsystem.server0.de>

Hey ho,
I'm new at this list, and I've a few questions about gate_news.
It isn't working very well, so some posts to the group aren't fetched
and some mails aren't posted. Can the problem be that the newsserver is
connected only per ISDN and so the connection is very slow? So that sometimes
the newsserver gives a timeout?
Is this a known bug in gate_news, or is it a problem of my configuration?
Im using mailman 2.0.7 self-compiled on a debian system.
I've heard that gate_news is only a hack, so that it's not really good.
Is this true? Is it better in later versions?
And: Have all mailman-programs to be written in python? If not, I could
try to rewrite gate_news in c? With a config-file where changes are written
to? Out of it all, isn't c faster than python?

Bye and thanks
   Jonas

-- 
It's not that I'm afraid to die. I just don't want to be there when it
happens.	-- Wood Allen


From lnxgeek@us.ibm.com  Mon Nov 26 17:16:14 2001
From: lnxgeek@us.ibm.com (Scott Russell)
Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 12:16:14 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] questions about gate_news
In-Reply-To: <20011126165956.A3376@testsystem.server0.de>; from jmeurer@gmx.de on Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 04:59:56PM +0100
References: <20011126165956.A3376@testsystem.server0.de>
Message-ID: <20011126121614.A10744@us.ibm.com>

On Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 04:59:56PM +0100, Jonas Meurer wrote:
> Hey ho,
> I'm new at this list, and I've a few questions about gate_news.
> It isn't working very well, so some posts to the group aren't fetched
> and some mails aren't posted. Can the problem be that the newsserver is
> connected only per ISDN and so the connection is very slow? So that sometimes
> the newsserver gives a timeout?
> Is this a known bug in gate_news, or is it a problem of my configuration?
> Im using mailman 2.0.7 self-compiled on a debian system.
> I've heard that gate_news is only a hack, so that it's not really good.
> Is this true? Is it better in later versions?
> And: Have all mailman-programs to be written in python? If not, I could
> try to rewrite gate_news in c? With a config-file where changes are written
> to? Out of it all, isn't c faster than python?

I'm not sure if this is a true bug or not but I wanted to report that
gate_news in 2.0.7 works for me. (tm) In my case the innd server is located
on the same box as the smtp server so there is no delays in handling
connections between mailman and the inn server.

I'm not sure I see the point of using an external C program as part of the
Mailman package. If you're going to do that why not just disable the Mailman
gate_news functions and use one of the many available mail2news/news2mail
gateway scripts out there?

-- 
Regards,
 Scott Russell (lnxgeek@us.ibm.com)
 Linux Technology Center, System Admin, RHCE.
 T/L 441-9289 / External 919-543-9289
 http://bzimage.raleigh.ibm.com/webcam



From jmeurer@gmx.de  Mon Nov 26 16:37:25 2001
From: jmeurer@gmx.de (Jonas Meurer)
Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 17:37:25 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] questions about gate_news
In-Reply-To: <20011126121614.A10744@us.ibm.com>
References: <20011126165956.A3376@testsystem.server0.de> <20011126121614.A10744@us.ibm.com>
Message-ID: <20011126173725.A3559@testsystem.server0.de>

On Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 12:16:14PM -0500, Scott Russell wrote:
> I'm not sure if this is a true bug or not but I wanted to report that
> gate_news in 2.0.7 works for me. (tm) In my case the innd server is located
> on the same box as the smtp server so there is no delays in handling
> connections between mailman and the inn server.

I think the problem is that no newsserver really allows all connects allways.
With this problem gate_news can't handle.

> I'm not sure I see the point of using an external C program as part of the
> Mailman package. If you're going to do that why not just disable the Mailman
> gate_news functions and use one of the many available mail2news/news2mail
> gateway scripts out there?

Mh, but for the future it's easier and better when mailman has a real gate_news
function, he? Like majordomo? So, I allways could try to write it in python,
but normal I prefer c, because it's faster. ;)

Bye
 Jonas

-- 
Black holes were created when God divided by 0.


From pchytil@ece.ogi.edu  Mon Nov 26 18:00:54 2001
From: pchytil@ece.ogi.edu (Pavel Chytil)
Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 10:00:54 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Uncaught runner exception: 'generator' object has no attribute 'insert'
Message-ID: <1006797654.3c028356cb072@asp.ogi.edu>

Hello,

I am new to mailman, so bear with me. I have downloaded mailman-2.0.7 which
works fine, than I have tried mailman 2.1 (also from cvs), and getting error
message below in error log whenever I try to send email to
mailman-request@asp.ogi.edu with word help in Subject line (I have tried also
word help in body of message without any luck).


Nov 25 16:24:47 2001 (11789) Uncaught runner exception: 'generator' object has
no attribute 'insert'
Nov 25 16:24:47 2001 (11789) Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/work/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 104, in __oneloop
    self.__onefile(msg, msgdata)
  File "/work/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 152, in __onefile
    keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata)
  File "/work/mailman/Mailman/Queue/CommandRunner.py", line 61, in _dispose
    mlist.ParseMailCommands(msg, msgdata)
  File "/work/mailman/Mailman/MailCommandHandler.py", line 198, in
ParseMailCommands
    lines.insert(0, SPACE.join(subjcmd))
AttributeError: 'generator' object has no attribute 'insert'

What am I doing wrong? 

Thanks,
        Pavel



From pchytil@ece.ogi.edu  Mon Nov 26 19:07:47 2001
From: pchytil@ece.ogi.edu (Pavel Chytil)
Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 11:07:47 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Uncaught runner exception: 'generator' object  has no attribute 'insert'
In-Reply-To: <3C028C15.F23C61C1@utopia.west.sun.com>
References: <1006797654.3c028356cb072@asp.ogi.edu> <3C028C15.F23C61C1@utopia.west.sun.com>
Message-ID: <1006801667.3c0293038f2f2@test>

Sure I did.

asp pts/25%
python                                                                        ~
Python 2.2b2 (#1, Nov 19 2001, 20:23:17)
[GCC 2.96 20000731 (Red Hat Linux 7.1 2.96-98)] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import email
>>> email.__version__
'1.0'
>>>

Pavel


Cituji z emailu od Dan Mick :

> With 2.1 you have to install the 'email' package, which is included, as the
> instructions with 2.1 say to do.  Did you?
> 
> Pavel Chytil wrote:
> > 
> > Hello,
> > 
> > I am new to mailman, so bear with me. I have downloaded mailman-2.0.7
> which
> > works fine, than I have tried mailman 2.1 (also from cvs), and getting
> error
> > message below in error log whenever I try to send email to
> > mailman-request@asp.ogi.edu with word help in Subject line (I have tried
> also
> > word help in body of message without any luck).
> > 
> > Nov 25 16:24:47 2001 (11789) Uncaught runner exception: 'generator' object
> has
> > no attribute 'insert'
> > Nov 25 16:24:47 2001 (11789) Traceback (most recent call last):
> >   File "/work/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 104, in __oneloop
> >     self.__onefile(msg, msgdata)
> >   File "/work/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 152, in __onefile
> >     keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata)
> >   File "/work/mailman/Mailman/Queue/CommandRunner.py", line 61, in
> _dispose
> >     mlist.ParseMailCommands(msg, msgdata)
> >   File "/work/mailman/Mailman/MailCommandHandler.py", line 198, in
> > ParseMailCommands
> >     lines.insert(0, SPACE.join(subjcmd))
> > AttributeError: 'generator' object has no attribute 'insert'
> > 
> > What am I doing wrong?
> > 
> > Thanks,
> >         Pavel
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Mailman-Developers mailing list
> > Mailman-Developers@python.org
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers
> 




From Dan Mick   Mon Nov 26 23:38:27 2001
From: Dan Mick  (Dan Mick)
Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 15:38:27 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Uncaught runner exception: 'generator' object  has no attribute 'insert'
Message-ID: <200111262338.PAA02743@utopia.West.Sun.COM>

The version that comes with mailman is 0.96; maybe 1.0 doesn't
yet work with Mailman?...

> Sure I did.
> 
> asp pts/25%
> python                                                                        
~
> Python 2.2b2 (#1, Nov 19 2001, 20:23:17)
> [GCC 2.96 20000731 (Red Hat Linux 7.1 2.96-98)] on linux2
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
> >>> import email
> >>> email.__version__
> '1.0'
> >>>
> 
> Pavel
> 
> 
> Cituji z emailu od Dan Mick :
> 
> > With 2.1 you have to install the 'email' package, which is included, as the
> > instructions with 2.1 say to do.  Did you?
> > 
> > Pavel Chytil wrote:
> > > 
> > > Hello,
> > > 
> > > I am new to mailman, so bear with me. I have downloaded mailman-2.0.7
> > which
> > > works fine, than I have tried mailman 2.1 (also from cvs), and getting
> > error
> > > message below in error log whenever I try to send email to
> > > mailman-request@asp.ogi.edu with word help in Subject line (I have tried
> > also
> > > word help in body of message without any luck).
> > > 
> > > Nov 25 16:24:47 2001 (11789) Uncaught runner exception: 'generator' object
> > has
> > > no attribute 'insert'
> > > Nov 25 16:24:47 2001 (11789) Traceback (most recent call last):
> > >   File "/work/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 104, in __oneloop
> > >     self.__onefile(msg, msgdata)
> > >   File "/work/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 152, in __onefile
> > >     keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata)
> > >   File "/work/mailman/Mailman/Queue/CommandRunner.py", line 61, in
> > _dispose
> > >     mlist.ParseMailCommands(msg, msgdata)
> > >   File "/work/mailman/Mailman/MailCommandHandler.py", line 198, in
> > > ParseMailCommands
> > >     lines.insert(0, SPACE.join(subjcmd))
> > > AttributeError: 'generator' object has no attribute 'insert'
> > > 
> > > What am I doing wrong?
> > > 
> > > Thanks,
> > >         Pavel
> > > 
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Mailman-Developers mailing list
> > > Mailman-Developers@python.org
> > > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers
> > 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Mailman-Developers mailing list
> Mailman-Developers@python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers



From bxb1280@yahoo.com  Tue Nov 27 00:39:16 2001
From: bxb1280@yahoo.com (bxb1280)
Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 8:39:16 +0800
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] hi
Message-ID: 

vtkusers=A3=AChi=A3=A1
    Who can tell me how to download the CTN Library? (I want to=
 read dicom file)
            thank you.  



                   

            bxb1280
            bxb1280@yahoo.com


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com



From bxb1280@yahoo.com  Tue Nov 27 00:40:09 2001
From: bxb1280@yahoo.com (bxb1280)
Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 8:40:9 +0800
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] hi
Message-ID: 

vtkusers=A3=AChi=A3=A1
    Who can tell me how to download the CTN Library? (I want to=
 read dicom file)
            thank you.  

            bxb1280
            bxb1280@yahoo.com


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com



From paja@asp.ogi.edu  Tue Nov 27 00:46:24 2001
From: paja@asp.ogi.edu (Pavel Chytil)
Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 16:46:24 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Uncaught runner exception: 'generator' object  has no attribute 'insert'
In-Reply-To: <200111262338.PAA02743@utopia.West.Sun.COM>
References: <200111262338.PAA02743@utopia.West.Sun.COM>
Message-ID: <1006821984.3c02e2602d872@test>

Well I have reinstall mailman with email 0.96 in my python and outcome is the
same:

Nov 26 16:42:33 2001 (4495) Uncaught runner exception: 'generator' object has no
attribute 'insert'
Nov 26 16:42:33 2001 (4495) Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/work/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 104, in __oneloop
    self.__onefile(msg, msgdata)
  File "/work/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 152, in __onefile
    keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata)
  File "/work/mailman/Mailman/Queue/CommandRunner.py", line 61, in _dispose
    mlist.ParseMailCommands(msg, msgdata)
  File "/work/mailman/Mailman/MailCommandHandler.py", line 198, in
ParseMailCommands
    lines.insert(0, SPACE.join(subjcmd))
AttributeError: 'generator' object has no attribute 'insert'

Pavel

Cituji z emailu od Dan Mick :

> The version that comes with mailman is 0.96; maybe 1.0 doesn't
> yet work with Mailman?...
> 
> > Sure I did.
> > 
> > asp pts/25%
> > python                                                                     
>   
> ~
> > Python 2.2b2 (#1, Nov 19 2001, 20:23:17)
> > [GCC 2.96 20000731 (Red Hat Linux 7.1 2.96-98)] on linux2
> > Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
> > >>> import email
> > >>> email.__version__
> > '1.0'
> > >>>
> > 
> > Pavel
> > 
> > 
> > Cituji z emailu od Dan Mick :
> > 
> > > With 2.1 you have to install the 'email' package, which is included, as
> the
> > > instructions with 2.1 say to do.  Did you?
> > > 
> > > Pavel Chytil wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > Hello,
> > > > 
> > > > I am new to mailman, so bear with me. I have downloaded mailman-2.0.7
> > > which
> > > > works fine, than I have tried mailman 2.1 (also from cvs), and
> getting
> > > error
> > > > message below in error log whenever I try to send email to
> > > > mailman-request@asp.ogi.edu with word help in Subject line (I have
> tried
> > > also
> > > > word help in body of message without any luck).
> > > > 
> > > > Nov 25 16:24:47 2001 (11789) Uncaught runner exception: 'generator'
> object
> > > has
> > > > no attribute 'insert'
> > > > Nov 25 16:24:47 2001 (11789) Traceback (most recent call last):
> > > >   File "/work/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 104, in
> __oneloop
> > > >     self.__onefile(msg, msgdata)
> > > >   File "/work/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 152, in
> __onefile
> > > >     keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata)
> > > >   File "/work/mailman/Mailman/Queue/CommandRunner.py", line 61, in
> > > _dispose
> > > >     mlist.ParseMailCommands(msg, msgdata)
> > > >   File "/work/mailman/Mailman/MailCommandHandler.py", line 198, in
> > > > ParseMailCommands
> > > >     lines.insert(0, SPACE.join(subjcmd))
> > > > AttributeError: 'generator' object has no attribute 'insert'
> > > > 
> > > > What am I doing wrong?
> > > > 
> > > > Thanks,
> > > >         Pavel
> > > > 
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Mailman-Developers mailing list
> > > > Mailman-Developers@python.org
> > > > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers
> > > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Mailman-Developers mailing list
> > Mailman-Developers@python.org
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers
> 




From pchytil@ece.ogi.edu  Tue Nov 27 00:47:10 2001
From: pchytil@ece.ogi.edu (Pavel Chytil)
Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 16:47:10 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Uncaught runner exception: 'generator' object  has no attribute 'insert'
Message-ID: <1006822030.3c02e28e2d872@test>

Well I have reinstall mailman with email 0.96 in my python and outcome is=
 the
same:

Nov 26 16:42:33 2001 (4495) Uncaught runner exception: 'generator' object=
 has no
attribute 'insert'
Nov 26 16:42:33 2001 (4495) Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/work/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 104, in __oneloop
    self.__onefile(msg, msgdata)
  File "/work/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 152, in __onefile
    keepqueued =3D self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata)
  File "/work/mailman/Mailman/Queue/CommandRunner.py", line 61, in _dispo=
se
    mlist.ParseMailCommands(msg, msgdata)
  File "/work/mailman/Mailman/MailCommandHandler.py", line 198, in
ParseMailCommands
    lines.insert(0, SPACE.join(subjcmd))
AttributeError: 'generator' object has no attribute 'insert'

Pavel

Cituji z emailu od Dan Mick :

> The version that comes with mailman is 0.96; maybe 1.0 doesn't
> yet work with Mailman?...
>=20
> > Sure I did.
> >=20
> > asp pts/25%
> > python                                                               =
     =20
>  =20
> ~
> > Python 2.2b2 (#1, Nov 19 2001, 20:23:17)
> > [GCC 2.96 20000731 (Red Hat Linux 7.1 2.96-98)] on linux2
> > Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
> > >>> import email
> > >>> email.__version__
> > '1.0'
> > >>>
> >=20
> > Pavel
> >=20
> >=20
> > Cituji z emailu od Dan Mick :
> >=20
> > > With 2.1 you have to install the 'email' package, which is included=
, as
> the
> > > instructions with 2.1 say to do.  Did you?
> > >=20
> > > Pavel Chytil wrote:
> > > >=20
> > > > Hello,
> > > >=20
> > > > I am new to mailman, so bear with me. I have downloaded mailman-2=
.0.7
> > > which
> > > > works fine, than I have tried mailman 2.1 (also from cvs), and
> getting
> > > error
> > > > message below in error log whenever I try to send email to
> > > > mailman-request@asp.ogi.edu with word help in Subject line (I hav=
e
> tried
> > > also
> > > > word help in body of message without any luck).
> > > >=20
> > > > Nov 25 16:24:47 2001 (11789) Uncaught runner exception: 'generato=
r'
> object
> > > has
> > > > no attribute 'insert'
> > > > Nov 25 16:24:47 2001 (11789) Traceback (most recent call last):
> > > >   File "/work/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 104, in
> __oneloop
> > > >     self.__onefile(msg, msgdata)
> > > >   File "/work/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 152, in
> __onefile
> > > >     keepqueued =3D self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata)
> > > >   File "/work/mailman/Mailman/Queue/CommandRunner.py", line 61, i=
n
> > > _dispose
> > > >     mlist.ParseMailCommands(msg, msgdata)
> > > >   File "/work/mailman/Mailman/MailCommandHandler.py", line 198, i=
n
> > > > ParseMailCommands
> > > >     lines.insert(0, SPACE.join(subjcmd))
> > > > AttributeError: 'generator' object has no attribute 'insert'
> > > >=20
> > > > What am I doing wrong?
> > > >=20
> > > > Thanks,
> > > >         Pavel
> > > >=20
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Mailman-Developers mailing list
> > > > Mailman-Developers@python.org
> > > > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers
> > >=20
> >=20
> >=20
> >=20
> > _______________________________________________
> > Mailman-Developers mailing list
> > Mailman-Developers@python.org
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers
>=20



----- Konec p=F8eposlan=E9 zpr=E1vy -----




From Dan Mick   Tue Nov 27 01:01:49 2001
From: Dan Mick  (Dan Mick)
Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 17:01:49 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Uncaught runner exception: 'generator' object  has no attribute 'insert'
Message-ID: <200111270102.RAA10400@utopia.West.Sun.COM>

Dunno; lines is a result of email.Iterators.body_line_iterator, 
which looks to me like it should be returning an array of 
strings, which certainly *does* have an insert() command...
so I don't know what's going wrong.

> Well I have reinstall mailman with email 0.96 in my python and outcome is the
> same:
> 
> Nov 26 16:42:33 2001 (4495) Uncaught runner exception: 'generator' object has 
no
> attribute 'insert'
> Nov 26 16:42:33 2001 (4495) Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "/work/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 104, in __oneloop
>     self.__onefile(msg, msgdata)
>   File "/work/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 152, in __onefile
>     keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata)
>   File "/work/mailman/Mailman/Queue/CommandRunner.py", line 61, in _dispose
>     mlist.ParseMailCommands(msg, msgdata)
>   File "/work/mailman/Mailman/MailCommandHandler.py", line 198, in
> ParseMailCommands
>     lines.insert(0, SPACE.join(subjcmd))
> AttributeError: 'generator' object has no attribute 'insert'
> 
> Pavel
> 
> Cituji z emailu od Dan Mick :
> 
> > The version that comes with mailman is 0.96; maybe 1.0 doesn't
> > yet work with Mailman?...
> > 
> > > Sure I did.
> > > 
> > > asp pts/25%
> > > python                                                                     
> >   
> > ~
> > > Python 2.2b2 (#1, Nov 19 2001, 20:23:17)
> > > [GCC 2.96 20000731 (Red Hat Linux 7.1 2.96-98)] on linux2
> > > Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
> > > >>> import email
> > > >>> email.__version__
> > > '1.0'
> > > >>>
> > > 
> > > Pavel
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Cituji z emailu od Dan Mick :
> > > 
> > > > With 2.1 you have to install the 'email' package, which is included, as
> > the
> > > > instructions with 2.1 say to do.  Did you?
> > > > 
> > > > Pavel Chytil wrote:
> > > > > 
> > > > > Hello,
> > > > > 
> > > > > I am new to mailman, so bear with me. I have downloaded mailman-2.0.7
> > > > which
> > > > > works fine, than I have tried mailman 2.1 (also from cvs), and
> > getting
> > > > error
> > > > > message below in error log whenever I try to send email to
> > > > > mailman-request@asp.ogi.edu with word help in Subject line (I have
> > tried
> > > > also
> > > > > word help in body of message without any luck).
> > > > > 
> > > > > Nov 25 16:24:47 2001 (11789) Uncaught runner exception: 'generator'
> > object
> > > > has
> > > > > no attribute 'insert'
> > > > > Nov 25 16:24:47 2001 (11789) Traceback (most recent call last):
> > > > >   File "/work/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 104, in
> > __oneloop
> > > > >     self.__onefile(msg, msgdata)
> > > > >   File "/work/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 152, in
> > __onefile
> > > > >     keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata)
> > > > >   File "/work/mailman/Mailman/Queue/CommandRunner.py", line 61, in
> > > > _dispose
> > > > >     mlist.ParseMailCommands(msg, msgdata)
> > > > >   File "/work/mailman/Mailman/MailCommandHandler.py", line 198, in
> > > > > ParseMailCommands
> > > > >     lines.insert(0, SPACE.join(subjcmd))
> > > > > AttributeError: 'generator' object has no attribute 'insert'
> > > > > 
> > > > > What am I doing wrong?
> > > > > 
> > > > > Thanks,
> > > > >         Pavel
> > > > > 
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > Mailman-Developers mailing list
> > > > > Mailman-Developers@python.org
> > > > > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers
> > > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Mailman-Developers mailing list
> > > Mailman-Developers@python.org
> > > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers
> > 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Mailman-Developers mailing list
> Mailman-Developers@python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers



From bob@nleaudio.com  Tue Nov 27 03:23:02 2001
From: bob@nleaudio.com (Bob Puff@NLE)
Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 22:23:02 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Uncaught runner exception: 'generator' object  has no attribute 'insert'
References: <1006797654.3c028356cb072@asp.ogi.edu> <3C028C15.F23C61C1@utopia.west.sun.com> <1006801667.3c0293038f2f2@test>
Message-ID: <3C030716.FC76EFAE@nleaudio.com>

Dan,

He is using Python 2.2, which comes with email - no need to install the package.  The problem lies elsewhere.

Bob


From barry@zope.com  Tue Nov 27 04:03:24 2001
From: barry@zope.com (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 23:03:24 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Postfix virtual domains
References: <20011122055247.4B8AB13D127@main.nlenet.net>
 <15356.42032.51456.803284@anthem.wooz.org>
 <15358.58128.171496.58848@anthem.wooz.org>
 <874rnil6yy.fsf_-_@arabella.intern.opera.no>
Message-ID: <15363.4236.41624.121681@anthem.wooz.org>

Last night I checked in some stuff to hopefully improve the virtual
domain support for Postfix.  It'd be great if some of you could give
it a looksee.

FWIW, I think I've solved the dom1, dom2 namespace collision problem,
by as suggested, omitting both dom1 and dom2 from $mydestination.
However, I still have host.dom1.ain in $mydestination
(i.e. $myhostname) because otherwise, there's no way to receive any
mail.  AFAICT, there's no way to avoid having all the dom1.ain and
dom2.ain names show up in host.dom1.ain.  Oh well, that doesn't bother
me.

-Barry


From barry@zope.com  Tue Nov 27 04:18:55 2001
From: barry@zope.com (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 23:18:55 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Uncaught runner exception: 'generator' object  has no attribute 'insert'
References: <1006797654.3c028356cb072@asp.ogi.edu>
 <3C028C15.F23C61C1@utopia.west.sun.com>
 <1006801667.3c0293038f2f2@test>
 <3C030716.FC76EFAE@nleaudio.com>
Message-ID: <15363.5167.197650.184285@anthem.wooz.org>

>>>>> "B" == Bob   writes:

    B> He is using Python 2.2, which comes with email - no need to
    B> install the package.  The problem lies elsewhere.

Yes, the problem is that in Python 2.2, body_line_generator() returns
a... generator!  not a list.  This is one corner where email 1.0 and
email 0.96 are not completely compatible, and it's not really feasible
to make them so here.  The following patch should fix this particular
problem.  Let me know and I'll commit it to cvs.

I haven't extensively tested Mailman with 2.2, but I will have to do
this before Python 2.2 final is released.

-Barry


From barry@zope.com  Tue Nov 27 04:19:28 2001
From: barry@zope.com (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 23:19:28 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Uncaught runner exception: 'generator' object  has no attribute 'insert'
References: <1006797654.3c028356cb072@asp.ogi.edu>
 <3C028C15.F23C61C1@utopia.west.sun.com>
 <1006801667.3c0293038f2f2@test>
 <3C030716.FC76EFAE@nleaudio.com>
Message-ID: <15363.5200.721333.636251@anthem.wooz.org>

Oops, forgot the patch!

-Barry

Index: MailCommandHandler.py
===================================================================
RCS file: /cvsroot/mailman/mailman/Mailman/MailCommandHandler.py,v
retrieving revision 2.24
diff -u -r2.24 MailCommandHandler.py
--- MailCommandHandler.py	2001/11/21 17:17:35	2.24
+++ MailCommandHandler.py	2001/11/27 04:19:23
@@ -181,7 +181,7 @@
             if mo:
                 subject = mo.group('cmd')
 
-        lines = email.Iterators.body_line_iterator(msg)
+        lines = email.Iterators.body_line_iterator(msg)[:]
 
         # Find out if the subject line has a command on it
         subjcmd = []


From paja@asp.ogi.edu  Tue Nov 27 06:34:02 2001
From: paja@asp.ogi.edu (Pavel Chytil)
Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 22:34:02 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Uncaught runner exception: 'generator' object  has no attribute 'insert'
In-Reply-To: <15363.5200.721333.636251@anthem.wooz.org>
References: <1006797654.3c028356cb072@asp.ogi.edu> <3C028C15.F23C61C1@utopia.west.sun.com> <1006801667.3c0293038f2f2@test> <3C030716.FC76EFAE@nleaudio.com> <15363.5200.721333.636251@anthem.wooz.org>
Message-ID: <1006842842.3c0333da54973@test>

Barry,

well probably did fix what it suppose to, but new pop up as well:

Nov 26 22:23:38 2001 (11876) Uncaught runner exception: unsubscriptable object
Nov 26 22:23:38 2001 (11876) Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/work/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 104, in __oneloop
    self.__onefile(msg, msgdata)
  File "/work/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 152, in __onefile
    keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata)
  File "/work/mailman/Mailman/Queue/CommandRunner.py", line 61, in _dispose
    mlist.ParseMailCommands(msg, msgdata)
  File "/work/mailman/Mailman/MailCommandHandler.py", line 184, in
ParseMailCommands
    lines = email.Iterators.body_line_iterator(msg)[:]
TypeError: unsubscriptable object

this happened after I have clearly install python2.2b and mailman with your
patch (from cvs). I have followed instruction completely, created new list
mailman, received email about new list has been created. So I tried to send
email to mailman-request@asp.ogi.edu with "help" subject line (tried also body
of message with same result) and it created the error message above.

Thanks,
	Pavel

Cituji z emailu od "Barry A. Warsaw" :

> 
> Oops, forgot the patch!
> 
> -Barry
> 
> Index: MailCommandHandler.py
> ===================================================================
> RCS file: /cvsroot/mailman/mailman/Mailman/MailCommandHandler.py,v
> retrieving revision 2.24
> diff -u -r2.24 MailCommandHandler.py
> --- MailCommandHandler.py	2001/11/21 17:17:35	2.24
> +++ MailCommandHandler.py	2001/11/27 04:19:23
> @@ -181,7 +181,7 @@
>              if mo:
>                  subject = mo.group('cmd')
>  
> -        lines = email.Iterators.body_line_iterator(msg)
> +        lines = email.Iterators.body_line_iterator(msg)[:]
>  
>          # Find out if the subject line has a command on it
>          subjcmd = []
> 




From barry@zope.com  Tue Nov 27 07:20:03 2001
From: barry@zope.com (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 02:20:03 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Uncaught runner exception: 'generator' object  has no attribute 'insert'
References: <1006797654.3c028356cb072@asp.ogi.edu>
 <3C028C15.F23C61C1@utopia.west.sun.com>
 <1006801667.3c0293038f2f2@test>
 <3C030716.FC76EFAE@nleaudio.com>
 <15363.5200.721333.636251@anthem.wooz.org>
 <1006842842.3c0333da54973@test>
Message-ID: <15363.16035.151196.942642@anthem.wooz.org>

Oops.  Okay, let's try this one!

-Barry

Index: MailCommandHandler.py
===================================================================
RCS file: /cvsroot/mailman/mailman/Mailman/MailCommandHandler.py,v
retrieving revision 2.25
diff -u -r2.25 MailCommandHandler.py
--- MailCommandHandler.py	2001/11/27 04:26:25	2.25
+++ MailCommandHandler.py	2001/11/27 07:20:00
@@ -181,7 +181,12 @@
             if mo:
                 subject = mo.group('cmd')
 
-        lines = email.Iterators.body_line_iterator(msg)[:]
+        # We must have a real list because of the way we insert an element and
+        # iterate over it.  In email 0.x (pre-Python 2.2) body_line_iterator()
+        # returns a real list, but in email 1.x (Python 2.2), it returns a
+        # generator.  This is the only way to coerce it to a concrete list
+        # object in both cases.
+        lines = list(email.Iterators.body_line_iterator(msg))
 
         # Find out if the subject line has a command on it
         subjcmd = []




From paja@asp.ogi.edu  Tue Nov 27 07:28:31 2001
From: paja@asp.ogi.edu (Pavel Chytil)
Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 23:28:31 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Uncaught runner exception: 'generator' object  has no attribute 'insert'
In-Reply-To: <15363.16035.151196.942642@anthem.wooz.org>
References: <1006797654.3c028356cb072@asp.ogi.edu> <3C028C15.F23C61C1@utopia.west.sun.com> <1006801667.3c0293038f2f2@test> <3C030716.FC76EFAE@nleaudio.com> <15363.5200.721333.636251@anthem.wooz.org> <1006842842.3c0333da54973@test> <15363.16035.151196.942642@anthem.wooz.org>
Message-ID: <1006846111.3c03409fa0470@test>

Barry,

still not there, same approache like last try:

Nov 26 23:25:30 2001 (15396) Uncaught runner exception: unsubscriptable object
Nov 26 23:25:30 2001 (15396) Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/work/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 104, in __oneloop
    self.__onefile(msg, msgdata)
  File "/work/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 152, in __onefile
    keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata)
  File "/work/mailman/Mailman/Queue/CommandRunner.py", line 61, in _dispose
    mlist.ParseMailCommands(msg, msgdata)
  File "/work/mailman/Mailman/MailCommandHandler.py", line 184, in
ParseMailCommands
    lines = email.Iterators.body_line_iterator(msg)[:]
TypeError: unsubscriptable object

Thanks,
	Pavel

Cituji z emailu od "Barry A. Warsaw" :

> 
> Oops.  Okay, let's try this one!
> 
> -Barry
> 
> Index: MailCommandHandler.py
> ===================================================================
> RCS file: /cvsroot/mailman/mailman/Mailman/MailCommandHandler.py,v
> retrieving revision 2.25
> diff -u -r2.25 MailCommandHandler.py
> --- MailCommandHandler.py	2001/11/27 04:26:25	2.25
> +++ MailCommandHandler.py	2001/11/27 07:20:00
> @@ -181,7 +181,12 @@
>              if mo:
>                  subject = mo.group('cmd')
>  
> -        lines = email.Iterators.body_line_iterator(msg)[:]
> +        # We must have a real list because of the way we insert an element
> and
> +        # iterate over it.  In email 0.x (pre-Python 2.2)
> body_line_iterator()
> +        # returns a real list, but in email 1.x (Python 2.2), it returns a
> +        # generator.  This is the only way to coerce it to a concrete list
> +        # object in both cases.
> +        lines = list(email.Iterators.body_line_iterator(msg))
>  
>          # Find out if the subject line has a command on it
>          subjcmd = []
> 
> 




From barry@zope.com  Tue Nov 27 07:38:21 2001
From: barry@zope.com (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 02:38:21 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Uncaught runner exception: 'generator' object  has no attribute 'insert'
References: <1006797654.3c028356cb072@asp.ogi.edu>
 <3C028C15.F23C61C1@utopia.west.sun.com>
 <1006801667.3c0293038f2f2@test>
 <3C030716.FC76EFAE@nleaudio.com>
 <15363.5200.721333.636251@anthem.wooz.org>
 <1006842842.3c0333da54973@test>
 <15363.16035.151196.942642@anthem.wooz.org>
 <1006846111.3c03409fa0470@test>
Message-ID: <15363.17133.800672.843252@anthem.wooz.org>

>>>>> "PC" == Pavel Chytil  writes:

    |     lines = email.Iterators.body_line_iterator(msg)[:]

Sorry, change this line to

          lines = list(email.Iterators.body_line_iterator(msg))

(You probably need to back out the previous patch first, before
applying the second one I sent.)

-Barry


From pchytil@ece.ogi.edu  Tue Nov 27 07:46:03 2001
From: pchytil@ece.ogi.edu (Pavel Chytil)
Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 23:46:03 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Uncaught runner exception: 'generator' object  has no attribute 'insert'
In-Reply-To: <15363.17133.800672.843252@anthem.wooz.org>
References: <1006797654.3c028356cb072@asp.ogi.edu> <3C028C15.F23C61C1@utopia.west.sun.com> <1006801667.3c0293038f2f2@test> <3C030716.FC76EFAE@nleaudio.com> <15363.5200.721333.636251@anthem.wooz.org> <1006842842.3c0333da54973@test> <15363.16035.151196.942642@anthem.wooz.org> <1006846111.3c03409fa0470@test> <15363.17133.800672.843252@anthem.wooz.org>
Message-ID: <1006847163.3c0344bbc003e@test>

Man you rule!!!

At this point seems to be working fine. I will do more testing and let you know
if any troubles will pop up.

Thanks a lot,

Pavel


Cituji z emailu od "Barry A. Warsaw" :

> 
> >>>>> "PC" == Pavel Chytil  writes:
> 
>     |     lines = email.Iterators.body_line_iterator(msg)[:]
> 
> Sorry, change this line to
> 
>           lines = list(email.Iterators.body_line_iterator(msg))
> 
> (You probably need to back out the previous patch first, before
> applying the second one I sent.)
> 
> -Barry
> 




From barry@zope.com  Tue Nov 27 08:12:13 2001
From: barry@zope.com (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 03:12:13 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Uncaught runner exception: 'generator' object  has no attribute 'insert'
References: <1006797654.3c028356cb072@asp.ogi.edu>
 <3C028C15.F23C61C1@utopia.west.sun.com>
 <1006801667.3c0293038f2f2@test>
 <3C030716.FC76EFAE@nleaudio.com>
 <15363.5200.721333.636251@anthem.wooz.org>
 <1006842842.3c0333da54973@test>
 <15363.16035.151196.942642@anthem.wooz.org>
 <1006846111.3c03409fa0470@test>
 <15363.17133.800672.843252@anthem.wooz.org>
 <1006847163.3c0344bbc003e@test>
Message-ID: <15363.19165.428335.123324@anthem.wooz.org>

>>>>> "PC" == Pavel Chytil  writes:

    PC> Man you rule!!!

:)

    PC> At this point seems to be working fine. I will do more testing
    PC> and let you know if any troubles will pop up.

    PC> Thanks a lot,

No problem!  Thanks for stress testing it on Python 2.2.

-Barry


From gward@mems-exchange.org  Tue Nov 27 14:54:16 2001
From: gward@mems-exchange.org (Greg Ward)
Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 09:54:16 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Re: [Mailman-Users] Subscriber names
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <20011127095416.B19793@mems-exchange.org>

On 24 November 2001, marina said:
> Does anybody know whether there's a way for Mailman to ask (and
> remember) subscriber names, as well as their email addresses?

I've just added a new entry to the FAQ Wizard:

  3.2. How can I track subscriber's real names?

  With Mailman 2.0.x, you can't: Mailman only remembers each subscriber's
  email address, password, and list options.

(Or visit http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.002.htp)

If this is wrong or incomplete, please visit the FAQ Wizard and update
it yourself.  In particular, can Mailman 2.1 track real names?

        Greg
-- 
Greg Ward - software developer                gward@mems-exchange.org
MEMS Exchange                            http://www.mems-exchange.org


From moseley@hank.org  Tue Nov 27 15:13:12 2001
From: moseley@hank.org (Bill Moseley)
Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 07:13:12 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Re: [Mailman-Users] Subscriber names
In-Reply-To: <20011127095416.B19793@mems-exchange.org>
References: 
 
Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.20011127071312.006be34c@pop3.hank.org>

At 09:54 AM 11/27/2001 -0500, Greg Ward wrote:

>
>I've just added a new entry to the FAQ Wizard:

Should the FAQ Wizzard be listed on the list.org home page?



Bill Moseley
mailto:moseley@hank.org


From gward@mems-exchange.org  Tue Nov 27 15:25:02 2001
From: gward@mems-exchange.org (Greg Ward)
Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 10:25:02 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Another new FAQ entry
Message-ID: <20011127102502.C19793@mems-exchange.org>

Mailman developer types --

I've written a FAQ entry for that perennial favourite, "How can I remove
a post from the list archive?".  Please take a look at
  http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.003.htp

and fix any problems or howl at me.

        Greg
-- 
Greg Ward - software developer                gward@mems-exchange.org
MEMS Exchange                            http://www.mems-exchange.org


From barry@zope.com  Tue Nov 27 17:12:40 2001
From: barry@zope.com (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 12:12:40 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Re: [Mailman-Users] Subscriber names
References: 
 <20011127095416.B19793@mems-exchange.org>
Message-ID: <15363.51592.249787.804020@anthem.wooz.org>

>>>>> "GW" == Greg Ward  writes:

    GW> In particular, can Mailman 2.1 track real names?

Yes!


From claw@kanga.nu  Tue Nov 27 18:41:05 2001
From: claw@kanga.nu (J C Lawrence)
Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 10:41:05 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Re: [Mailman-Users] Subscriber names
In-Reply-To: Message from Greg Ward 
 of "Tue, 27 Nov 2001 09:54:16 EST." <20011127095416.B19793@mems-exchange.org>
References:   <20011127095416.B19793@mems-exchange.org>
Message-ID: <23439.1006886465@kanga.nu>

On Tue, 27 Nov 2001 09:54:16 -0500 
Greg Ward  wrote:

> I've just added a new entry to the FAQ Wizard:

>   3.2. How can I track subscriber's real names?

Nice.  I've updated and extended it a bit.  Umm, actually I updated
and extended most of the current FAQ entries as well as adding a
couple.

Barry:  Mind adding a "General Questions" section?  The MTA/LDA/MDA
Q and others should go in there.

> In particular, can Mailman 2.1 track real names?

Yes.  Note that this is unreliable (The value of the GECOS field is
neither controlled or auditable).

-- 
J C Lawrence
---------(*)                Satan, oscillate my metallic sonatas.
claw@kanga.nu               He lived as a devil, eh?
http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/  Evil is a name of a foeman, as I live.


From pchytil@ece.ogi.edu  Tue Nov 27 19:22:37 2001
From: pchytil@ece.ogi.edu (Pavel Chytil)
Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 11:22:37 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Uncaught runner exception: 'generator' object  has no attribute 'insert'
In-Reply-To: <15363.19165.428335.123324@anthem.wooz.org>
References: <1006797654.3c028356cb072@asp.ogi.edu> <3C028C15.F23C61C1@utopia.west.sun.com> <1006801667.3c0293038f2f2@test> <3C030716.FC76EFAE@nleaudio.com> <15363.5200.721333.636251@anthem.wooz.org> <1006842842.3c0333da54973@test> <15363.16035.151196.942642@anthem.wooz.org> <1006846111.3c03409fa0470@test> <15363.17133.800672.843252@anthem.wooz.org> <1006847163.3c0344bbc003e@test> <15363.19165.428335.123324@anthem.wooz.org>
Message-ID: <1006888957.3c03e7fd9b68a@mail.asp.ogi.edu>

I have the same problem like before. I am trying to gate my list with news.
Posting to news does not work and gives following error:

Nov 27 11:12:30 2001 (18296) Uncaught runner exception: len() of unsized object
Nov 27 11:12:30 2001 (18296) Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/work/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 104, in __oneloop
    self.__onefile(msg, msgdata)
  File "/work/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 152, in __onefile
    keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata)
  File "/work/mailman/Mailman/Queue/NewsRunner.py", line 56, in _dispose
    prepare_message(mlist, msg, msgdata)
  File "/work/mailman/Mailman/Queue/NewsRunner.py", line 126, in prepare_message
    count = len(email.Iterators.body_line_iterator(msg))
TypeError: len() of unsized object

gating from news to list works fine, though. I am suspecting very similar
problem as before.

Thanks,
	Pavel


From pchytil@asp.ogi.edu  Tue Nov 27 21:57:36 2001
From: pchytil@asp.ogi.edu (Pavel Chytil)
Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 13:57:36 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Uncaught runner exception: 'generator' object  has no attribute 'insert'
In-Reply-To: <1006888957.3c03e7fd9b68a@mail.asp.ogi.edu>
References: <1006797654.3c028356cb072@asp.ogi.edu> <3C028C15.F23C61C1@utopia.west.sun.com> <1006801667.3c0293038f2f2@test> <3C030716.FC76EFAE@nleaudio.com> <15363.5200.721333.636251@anthem.wooz.org> <1006842842.3c0333da54973@test> <15363.16035.151196.942642@anthem.wooz.org> <1006846111.3c03409fa0470@test> <15363.17133.800672.843252@anthem.wooz.org> <1006847163.3c0344bbc003e@test> <15363.19165.428335.123324@anthem.wooz.org> <1006888957.3c03e7fd9b68a@mail.asp.ogi.edu>
Message-ID: <1006898256.3c040c50b6669@mail.asp.ogi.edu>

This goes away if I change

count = len(email.Iterators.body_line_iterator(msg))

to

count = len(list(email.Iterators.body_line_iterator(msg)))

in ./mailman/Mailman/Queue/NewsRunner.py line 126

I do not know if this is clean or not, but I never done anything with python.

This introduce new problem which is nntp error:

Nov 27 13:48:10 2001 (26172) (NNTPDirect) NNTP error for list "test": 441 437 No
colon-space in "From pchytil@asp.ogi.edu Tue Nov 27 13:48:09 2001" header

So my hacking is still in progress. I should probably read more about format of
NNTP headers in documentation of mailman.

Any ideas?

Thanks,
	Pavel

Cituji z emailu od Pavel Chytil :

> I have the same problem like before. I am trying to gate my list with news.
> Posting to news does not work and gives following error:
> 
> Nov 27 11:12:30 2001 (18296) Uncaught runner exception: len() of unsized
> object
> Nov 27 11:12:30 2001 (18296) Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "/work/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 104, in __oneloop
>     self.__onefile(msg, msgdata)
>   File "/work/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 152, in __onefile
>     keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata)
>   File "/work/mailman/Mailman/Queue/NewsRunner.py", line 56, in _dispose
>     prepare_message(mlist, msg, msgdata)
>   File "/work/mailman/Mailman/Queue/NewsRunner.py", line 126, in
> prepare_message
>     count = len(email.Iterators.body_line_iterator(msg))
> TypeError: len() of unsized object
> 
> gating from news to list works fine, though. I am suspecting very similar
> problem as before.
> 
> Thanks,
> 	Pavel
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Mailman-Developers mailing list
> Mailman-Developers@python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers
> 




From paja@asp.ogi.edu  Tue Nov 27 22:03:42 2001
From: paja@asp.ogi.edu (Pavel Chytil)
Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 14:03:42 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Uncaught runner exception: 'generator' object  has no attribute 'insert'
In-Reply-To: <1006898256.3c040c50b6669@mail.asp.ogi.edu>
References: <1006797654.3c028356cb072@asp.ogi.edu> <3C028C15.F23C61C1@utopia.west.sun.com> <1006801667.3c0293038f2f2@test> <3C030716.FC76EFAE@nleaudio.com> <15363.5200.721333.636251@anthem.wooz.org> <1006842842.3c0333da54973@test> <15363.16035.151196.942642@anthem.wooz.org> <1006846111.3c03409fa0470@test> <15363.17133.800672.843252@anthem.wooz.org> <1006847163.3c0344bbc003e@test> <15363.19165.428335.123324@anthem.wooz.org> <1006888957.3c03e7fd9b68a@mail.asp.ogi.edu> <1006898256.3c040c50b6669@mail.asp.ogi.edu>
Message-ID: <1006898622.3c040dbe77fe2@mail.asp.ogi.edu>

Patch:

--- NewsRunner.py   Tue Nov 27 13:22:45 2001
+++ NewsRunner.py      Thu Oct 11 22:16:18 2001
@@ -123,7 +123,7 @@
     # Lines: is useful
     if msg['Lines'] is None:
         # BAW: is there a better way?
-        count = len(list(email.Iterators.body_line_iterator(msg)))
+        count = len(email.Iterators.body_line_iterator(msg))
         msg['Lines'] = str(count)
     # Massage the message headers by remove some and rewriting others.  This
     # woon't completely sanitize the message, but it will eliminate the bulk

Pavel

Cituji z emailu od Pavel Chytil :

> This goes away if I change
> 
> count = len(email.Iterators.body_line_iterator(msg))
> 
> to
> 
> count = len(list(email.Iterators.body_line_iterator(msg)))
> 
> in ./mailman/Mailman/Queue/NewsRunner.py line 126
> 
> I do not know if this is clean or not, but I never done anything with
> python.
> 
> This introduce new problem which is nntp error:
> 
> Nov 27 13:48:10 2001 (26172) (NNTPDirect) NNTP error for list "test": 441 437
> No
> colon-space in "From pchytil@asp.ogi.edu Tue Nov 27 13:48:09 2001" header
> 
> So my hacking is still in progress. I should probably read more about format
> of
> NNTP headers in documentation of mailman.
> 
> Any ideas?
> 
> Thanks,
> 	Pavel
> 
> Cituji z emailu od Pavel Chytil :
> 
> > I have the same problem like before. I am trying to gate my list with
> news.
> > Posting to news does not work and gives following error:
> > 
> > Nov 27 11:12:30 2001 (18296) Uncaught runner exception: len() of unsized
> > object
> > Nov 27 11:12:30 2001 (18296) Traceback (most recent call last):
> >   File "/work/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 104, in __oneloop
> >     self.__onefile(msg, msgdata)
> >   File "/work/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 152, in __onefile
> >     keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata)
> >   File "/work/mailman/Mailman/Queue/NewsRunner.py", line 56, in _dispose
> >     prepare_message(mlist, msg, msgdata)
> >   File "/work/mailman/Mailman/Queue/NewsRunner.py", line 126, in
> > prepare_message
> >     count = len(email.Iterators.body_line_iterator(msg))
> > TypeError: len() of unsized object
> > 
> > gating from news to list works fine, though. I am suspecting very similar
> > problem as before.
> > 
> > Thanks,
> > 	Pavel
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Mailman-Developers mailing list
> > Mailman-Developers@python.org
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers
> > 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Mailman-Developers mailing list
> Mailman-Developers@python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers
> 




From mhz@alt-linux.org  Tue Nov 27 22:47:26 2001
From: mhz@alt-linux.org (Mikhail Zabaluev)
Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 01:47:26 +0300
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] MIME-Version
Message-ID: <20011127224726.GA10914@localhost.localdomain>

Hello,

I see that the 'MIME-Version' header is set in MIMEBase.MIMEBase and
thus in every object derived from it. This header should be set only
for 'root' MIMEMessage.MIMEMessage objects; no need to duplicate it
in every part of a message.

-- 
Stay tuned,
  MhZ                                     JID: mookid@jabber.org
___________
A squeegee by any other name wouldn't sound as funny.


From chuqui@plaidworks.com  Tue Nov 27 23:12:08 2001
From: chuqui@plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach)
Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 15:12:08 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Posting authentication issues...
Message-ID: 

Barry, here's a request that you might want to chew on.

On our corporate box, we'd like the ability to limit posting to subscribed
addresses OR from a given domain (all foo@dom.ain addresses also allowed to
post). We gateway lists to usenet internally, and want to encourage
employees to get involved without having to go through the subscription
process for things they're reading via news. And yes, I know the news
gateway is bidirectional, some employees prefer e-mail.

Will 2.1 have a way to do this easily?

One of my worries, of course, are forged addresses. A hack like that leave
you open to any troll with half a brain.

So my second thought was: how about some mechanism that validates posting
based on information embedded in the message? Majordomo does that with an
Approved: heading for admins, but I'm thinking more of a general setup.

For instance, if you could set a list/server(global) configuration of:

If (regex matches) approve posting automatically

You could build a regex, for instance, of:

From:.*@apple.com

Or 

Password: hidden

Or even:

Received:.*internal.gate.way.com

The latter would be what I'd want to use, in fact, for auto-approval of
internal postings; I can, in fact, guarantee that if it comes though the
firewall from the firewall relay machines, it's from an employee, where the
from address might not be reliable.

What do you think? 

FWIW, I apologize for being seriously missing. Just back from two weeks
doing R&R in British columbia, and I"m just now returning to the world of
having to show up at work once or twice a week. Tanned, rested and ready.
Well, technically, mossy, rested and ready... (giggle)




From claw@kanga.nu  Tue Nov 27 23:47:34 2001
From: claw@kanga.nu (J C Lawrence)
Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 15:47:34 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Posting authentication issues...
In-Reply-To: Message from Chuq Von Rospach 
 of "Tue, 27 Nov 2001 15:12:08 PST." 
References: 
Message-ID: <29456.1006904854@kanga.nu>

On Tue, 27 Nov 2001 15:12:08 -0800 
Chuq Von Rospach  wrote:

> One of my worries, of course, are forged addresses. A hack like
> that leave you open to any troll with half a brain.

It would be nice to pair envelope authentication with domain
permission using From:/Cc: for membership permission.  It doesn't do
a *whole* lot, but it would help.

-- 
J C Lawrence                Satan, oscillate my metallic sonatas. 
---------(*)                He lived as a devil, eh?		  
claw@kanga.nu               Evil is a name of a foeman, as I live.
http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/  Reviled did I live; evil I did deliver.



From pchytil@ece.ogi.edu  Wed Nov 28 03:48:48 2001
From: pchytil@ece.ogi.edu (Pavel Chytil)
Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 19:48:48 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] GetScriptURL
Message-ID: <1006919328.3c045ea062a9d@mail.asp.ogi.edu>

Hello,

I have modified may site setting from (in Defaults.py)

# Site-specific settings
DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'asp.ogi.edu'
DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'asp.ogi.edu'
DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN = 'http://%s/mailman/'

# For backwards compatibility.  Note: DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN must end in a slash!
DEFAULT_HOST_NAME = DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST
DEFAULT_URL       = DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN % DEFAULT_URL_HOST
PUBLIC_ARCHIVE_URL = 'http://%(hostname)s/pipermail/%(listname)s'

to (in mm_cfg.py)

DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'asp.ogi.edu'
DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'lists.asp.ogi.edu'
DEFAULT_HOST_NAME = 'lists.asp.ogi.edu'
DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN = 'http://%s/mailman/'
DEFAULT_URL       = DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN % DEFAULT_URL_HOST
PUBLIC_ARCHIVE_URL = 'http://lists.asp.ogi.edu/pipermail/%(listname)s'

My goal is to receive email (for example email with help) from
mailman-request@asp.ogi.edu with proper http links

I would expect :

http://lists.asp.ogi.edu/mailman/listinfo/test

but getting

http://asp.ogi.edu/mailman/listinfo/test

My host has name asp.ogi.edu but has several CNAMEs like lists, mail.

I have found that this pretty much depends on function GetScriptURL
(Mailman/MailList.py), where %(listinfo_url)s assign , but since I am not
familiar with Python, it is kind of hopeless for me to try fix something or
understand quickly, so I rather ask.

I have installed Python 2.2 and Mailman 2.1a3 (fresh from cvs)

Thanks for any feed back,

Pavel


From correo@valmansi.com  Wed Nov 28 04:12:36 2001
From: correo@valmansi.com (mailmaster@valmansi.com)
Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 23:12:36 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Tarjetas de Navidad
Message-ID: <200111280412.fAS4Cau02082@vmya.valmansi.com>

TEMAS DE VIDA CRISTIANA


OfrecemosTarjetas de Navidad con motivos claramente cristianos.

    * Hemos procurado editarlas a muy bajo costo para que la difusion
      del mensaje del Nacimiento de Jesus llegue a muchas personas.
    * Los precios de dichas tarjetas van de forma escalonada: desde S/.
      1.80 la unidad hasta S/. 1.20 cuando se compran 100 a mas
      tarjetas. Estos precios incluyen el IGV.

Nos proponemos devolver a esta fiesta tan nuestra su verdadero significado.


Le recomendamos visite nuestra pagina http://www.aplenosol.com/tarjetas/
, en ella encontrara todos los modelos y  la forma de adquirirlos y
hacer su pedido en linea.




Si quieres salir de esta lista solo tienes que marcarlo en el sgte. link

To remove yourself or change your subscription, please visit  http://valmansi.com/multimail/mail.php


From Salil_Sanghvi@i2.com  Wed Nov 28 12:17:07 2001
From: Salil_Sanghvi@i2.com (Salil_Sanghvi@i2.com)
Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 17:47:07 +0530
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] I need Jpython 1.0.3
Message-ID: 

Hi,

     Can anybody give me Jpython 1.0.3, I havent found this anywhere.

Salil






From Salil_Sanghvi@i2.com  Wed Nov 28 12:17:31 2001
From: Salil_Sanghvi@i2.com (Salil_Sanghvi@i2.com)
Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 17:47:31 +0530
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] I need Jpython 1.0.3
Message-ID: 

Hi,

     Can anybody give me Jpython 1.0.3, I havent found this anywhere.

Salil





From Markus Jansen   Wed Nov 28 16:56:57 2001
From: Markus Jansen  (Markus Jansen)
Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 17:56:57 +0100 (MET)
Subject: AttributeError: 'generator' object has no attribute 'pop' (was: Re: [Mailman-Developers] Uncaught runner exception: 'generator' object  has no attribute 'insert')
Message-ID: <200111281656.RAA03279@al.edt.ericsson.se>

Hi Pavel,

I have seen the same problem in Tagger.py (see context diff below)
with incoming mails.
Similar to you, I have some 2 days of Python experience, but it seems to=20
work now.

Best regards,

=09Markus


> diff -c Tagger.py.orig Tagger.py
*** Tagger.py.orig      Wed Nov 28 17:50:36 2001
--- Tagger.py   Wed Nov 28 17:55:09 2001
***************
*** 81,87 ****
      # the first numlines of body text.
      lines =3D []
      lineno =3D 0
!     reader =3D email.Iterators.body_line_iterator(msg)
      while numlines is None or lineno < numlines:
          try:
              line =3D reader.pop(0)
--- 81,87 ----
      # the first numlines of body text.
      lines =3D []
      lineno =3D 0
!     reader =3D list(email.Iterators.body_line_iterator(msg))
      while numlines is None or lineno < numlines:
          try:
              line =3D reader.pop(0)
>=20



> X-Authentication-Warning: asp.ogi.edu: nobody set sender to paja@asp.ogi.=
edu=20
using -f
> From: Pavel Chytil 
> To: "Barry A. Warsaw" 
> Cc: mailman-developers@python.org
> Subject: Re: [Mailman-Developers] Uncaught runner exception: 'generator'=
=20
object  has no attribute 'insert'
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
> User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) 4.0-cvs
> X-BeenThere: mailman-developers@python.org
> X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 (101270)
> List-Help: 
> List-Post: 
> List-Subscribe: ,=20

> List-Id: Mailman mailing list developers 
> List-Unsubscribe:=20
,=20

> List-Archive: 
> Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 14:03:42 -0800
>=20
> Patch:
>=20
> --- NewsRunner.py   Tue Nov 27 13:22:45 2001
> +++ NewsRunner.py      Thu Oct 11 22:16:18 2001
> @@ -123,7 +123,7 @@
>      # Lines: is useful
>      if msg['Lines'] is None:
>          # BAW: is there a better way?
> -        count =3D len(list(email.Iterators.body_line_iterator(msg)))
> +        count =3D len(email.Iterators.body_line_iterator(msg))
>          msg['Lines'] =3D str(count)
>      # Massage the message headers by remove some and rewriting others.  =
This
>      # woon't completely sanitize the message, but it will eliminate the =
bulk
>=20
> Pavel
>=20
> Cituji z emailu od Pavel Chytil :
>=20
> > This goes away if I change
> >=20
> > count =3D len(email.Iterators.body_line_iterator(msg))
> >=20
> > to
> >=20
> > count =3D len(list(email.Iterators.body_line_iterator(msg)))
> >=20
> > in ./mailman/Mailman/Queue/NewsRunner.py line 126
> >=20
> > I do not know if this is clean or not, but I never done anything with
> > python.
> >=20
> > This introduce new problem which is nntp error:
> >=20
> > Nov 27 13:48:10 2001 (26172) (NNTPDirect) NNTP error for list "test": 4=
41=20
437
> > No
> > colon-space in "From pchytil@asp.ogi.edu Tue Nov 27 13:48:09 2001" head=
er
> >=20
> > So my hacking is still in progress. I should probably read more about f=
ormat
> > of
> > NNTP headers in documentation of mailman.
> >=20
> > Any ideas?
> >=20
> > Thanks,
> > =09Pavel
> >=20
> > Cituji z emailu od Pavel Chytil :
> >=20
> > > I have the same problem like before. I am trying to gate my list with
> > news.
> > > Posting to news does not work and gives following error:
> > >=20
> > > Nov 27 11:12:30 2001 (18296) Uncaught runner exception: len() of unsi=
zed
> > > object
> > > Nov 27 11:12:30 2001 (18296) Traceback (most recent call last):
> > >   File "/work/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 104, in __oneloo=
p
> > >     self.__onefile(msg, msgdata)
> > >   File "/work/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 152, in __onefil=
e
> > >     keepqueued =3D self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata)
> > >   File "/work/mailman/Mailman/Queue/NewsRunner.py", line 56, in _disp=
ose
> > >     prepare_message(mlist, msg, msgdata)
> > >   File "/work/mailman/Mailman/Queue/NewsRunner.py", line 126, in
> > > prepare_message
> > >     count =3D len(email.Iterators.body_line_iterator(msg))
> > > TypeError: len() of unsized object
> > >=20
> > > gating from news to list works fine, though. I am suspecting very sim=
ilar
> > > problem as before.
> > >=20
> > > Thanks,
> > > =09Pavel
> > >=20
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Mailman-Developers mailing list
> > > Mailman-Developers@python.org
> > > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers
> > >=20
> >=20
> >=20
> >=20
> > _______________________________________________
> > Mailman-Developers mailing list
> > Mailman-Developers@python.org
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers
> >=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> Mailman-Developers mailing list
> Mailman-Developers@python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers

--
Markus Jansen                               Markus.Jansen@ericsson.com
Senior Designer, Technical Coordinator
Ericsson Process & Application Consulting
TTM Solutions / CM Tools      VH/PAC/L/TD   Phone      +46 8 568 61560
V=E4stberga All=E9 36A                          Mobile     +46 70 526 2548
12582 Stockholm, Sweden                     Fax        +46 8 568 61888



From mtearle@tartarus.uwa.edu.au  Thu Nov 29 03:45:15 2001
From: mtearle@tartarus.uwa.edu.au (Mark Tearle)
Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2001 11:45:15 +0800 (WST)
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] FoRK-as-RSS (fwd)
Message-ID: 

[Forwarded with permission]

A cool hack, although Justin thinks it would be cooler if implemented
inside Mailman/pipermail itself....

Yours
Mark
-- 
Mark Tearle - mark@tearle.com
                    Roy Knable: Boy, this is strange!
 [As cartoon mice.] Helen Knable: Strange? I'm a cartoon mouse with high-heel
                            sneakers. The word "strange" is somewhat lacking.

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 14:42:47 +1100
From: Justin Mason 
To: fork@xent.com
Subject: FoRK-as-RSS

For some reason, I've hacked up a script which scrapes MailMan list
archives to generate RSS.  Not sure why, seeing as I really should be
doing more "proper" work, but there you go ;)

The results:

	http://taint.org/mmrss/
	http://taint.org/mmrss/FoRK.html
	http://taint.org/mmrss/FoRK.rss

cheers!

--j.


http://xent.com/mailman/listinfo/fork



From chuqui@plaidworks.com  Thu Nov 29 04:33:12 2001
From: chuqui@plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach)
Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 20:33:12 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] A few things...
Message-ID: 

First, Barry -- there's a message in the admin posting queue you need to
take a look at. It's an unsub request I can't find, but it's probably not
our problem, since we're also being hit really hard right now by both the
latest virus and by people who seem to have been spammed onto some list(s)
that seem tob e run on a mailman server somewhere, and the links to mailman
are probably the only ones that work (again). Sigh -- those links in the
default distribution are a mixed blessing...

And, you know, I was thinking today that the message sent out that says:

homebuoy1@hotmail.com has been removed from south-bay-birds.


Would be a lot more useful if it told me how/why (has he been removed? Or
unsubscribed?). 

One other thing -- this is another possible DoS issue, but I don't really
have any good idea of what (if anything) you can do about it. I was working
on some stuff the other day, and realized that my ~mailman/data directory
had a huge number of files in it.

It was stuffed with a bunch of heldmsg* files. At one point, a subscriber's
mailer misbehaved and the daemon stuffed 400+ corrupted messages down our
throats. We finally had to just blow away the requests.db file, but I didn't
realize until later it left the requests in ~data (somehow, that needs to be
cleaned up, but I don't know how to easily do that, but there seems a need
for some kind of garbage collection here).

But it also made me realize this opens the server to a denial attack.
Someone who's pissed at you can simply start sending messages to be held
into the admin queue, infinitely, until you run out of disk space or inodes.
And with the current admin interface, you can effectively shut down the
admin queeue by building a pending queue so large you can't process it. But
I'm more worried about that disk-based DoS here; at the same time, I don't
know how you could practically implement some kind of quota or protection,
unless you wanted to check disk space, and if it falls below some lowwater
mark, start TEMPFAILing messages back into the queue for later processing.
That, though, simply moves the dos attack into the mail queues, although
most mailers also do disk-space checks, and stop accepting mail if the disk
gets too full,. Not a good situation, but at least it'd keep the system from
shutting down because of a full disk....

Anyway, some stuff to give you headaches over....




From Mailman-Users@python.org, claw@kanga.nu  Thu Nov 29 05:34:41 2001
From: Mailman-Users@python.org, claw@kanga.nu (J C Lawrence)
Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 21:34:41 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Backing up Mailman list installations
Message-ID: <20105.1007012081@kanga.nu>

<>

A moderately frequent request on these lists has been, "How can I
back up my Mailman lists/membership/etc?"  I happened to be in the
area today touching up the scripts I use.  Please feel free to adapt
freely.

Note: You'll need to have a reasonably recent version of nmh
installed as the scripts rely on the MH tools to build a MIME
message:

  http://www.mhost.com/nmh/

The scripts:
          
  ~/bin/mimemail:
    ----
    #!/bin/bash
    #set -x
    
    subject=$1
    file=$2
    addr=$3
    
    echo "To: ${addr}
    From: nobody
    Subject: ${subject}
    
    #application/octet-stream [${subject}] ${file}
    
    " | /usr/bin/mh/mhbuild - > /tmp/mimemail.tmp.${$}
    /usr/lib/mh/post -verbose -watch /tmp/mimemail.tmp.${$}
    rm /tmp/mimemail.tmp.${$}
    ----
    
  ~/bin/mailman.backup
    ----
    #!/bin/bash
    #set -x

    datestr=`date +%Y%m%d`
    host=`hostname -f`
    file=mailman.lists.${datestr}.tar.gz
    filepath=~/backups/${file}
    sendto="root"

    cd /var/lib/mailman
    tar zcf ${filepath} lists
    cd ~/backups
    mimemail ${file} ${filepath} ${sendto}
    #rm ${file}
    ---
    
Yeah, there are some hard coded paths in there.  Sue me.  I never
said they were pretty, merely that they worked.  Brief explanation:

  mimemail takes three arguments: the Subject: of the message its
  going to send, the file it is going to send, and the address it is
  going to send it to.  mimemail depends on the nmh tools to build
  the MIME message.

  mailman.backup takes no arguments.  It creates a compressed
  tarball of ~mailman/lists in the file
  ~/backups/mailman.lists.YYMMDD.tar.gz

    eg: mailman.lists.20011128.tar.gz

  And then uses mimemail to send that file to root@localhost
  (edit/change if you want) before deleting it.

To use drop them in a cronjob something like:  

  0 6 * * 0 /home/archiver/bin/mailman.backup

A sample execution should look something like:

  $ ./mailman.backup
   -- Posting for All Recipients --
    -- Local Recipients --
    root: address ok
   -- Recipient Copies Posted --
  Message Processed
  
The result will be that every time the cronjob runs it will send you
(in this case root@host.dom) a message looking something like:

  Subject: mailman.lists.20011128.tar.gz
  From: nobody@kanga.nu
  Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 21:12:55 -0800
  To: root@kanga.nu

   

Where the MIME attachment is the tarball constructed by
~/bin/mailman.backup.  Edit the value of sendto in mailman.backup if
you want them going somewhere else.

I've added this to FAQ at:

  http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.006.htp

-- 
J C Lawrence                
---------(*)                Satan, oscillate my metallic sonatas. 
claw@kanga.nu               He lived as a devil, eh?		  
http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/  Evil is a name of a foeman, as I live.


From Jon Carnes" 
Message-ID: <050901c178a4$c27790f0$0b04010a@JCARNES>

Cool scripts.  I used to do something similar, and then I moved over to
using "ncftp" to drop the tarball off on my backup-server.  A matter of
preference, but I like that better than mailing myself the tarball.

Jon Carnes
----- Original Message -----
From: "J C Lawrence" 
To: 
Cc: 
Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2001 12:34 AM
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Backing up Mailman list installations


>
> <>
>
> A moderately frequent request on these lists has been, "How can I
> back up my Mailman lists/membership/etc?"  I happened to be in the
> area today touching up the scripts I use.  Please feel free to adapt
> freely.
>
> Note: You'll need to have a reasonably recent version of nmh
> installed as the scripts rely on the MH tools to build a MIME
> message:
>
>   http://www.mhost.com/nmh/
>
> The scripts:
>
>   ~/bin/mimemail:
>     ----
>     #!/bin/bash
>     #set -x
>
>     subject=$1
>     file=$2
>     addr=$3
>
>     echo "To: ${addr}
>     From: nobody
>     Subject: ${subject}
>
>     #application/octet-stream [${subject}] ${file}
>
>     " | /usr/bin/mh/mhbuild - > /tmp/mimemail.tmp.${$}
>     /usr/lib/mh/post -verbose -watch /tmp/mimemail.tmp.${$}
>     rm /tmp/mimemail.tmp.${$}
>     ----
>
>   ~/bin/mailman.backup
>     ----
>     #!/bin/bash
>     #set -x
>
>     datestr=`date +%Y%m%d`
>     host=`hostname -f`
>     file=mailman.lists.${datestr}.tar.gz
>     filepath=~/backups/${file}
>     sendto="root"
>
>     cd /var/lib/mailman
>     tar zcf ${filepath} lists
>     cd ~/backups
>     mimemail ${file} ${filepath} ${sendto}
>     #rm ${file}
>     ---
>
> Yeah, there are some hard coded paths in there.  Sue me.  I never
> said they were pretty, merely that they worked.  Brief explanation:
>
>   mimemail takes three arguments: the Subject: of the message its
>   going to send, the file it is going to send, and the address it is
>   going to send it to.  mimemail depends on the nmh tools to build
>   the MIME message.
>
>   mailman.backup takes no arguments.  It creates a compressed
>   tarball of ~mailman/lists in the file
>   ~/backups/mailman.lists.YYMMDD.tar.gz
>
>     eg: mailman.lists.20011128.tar.gz
>
>   And then uses mimemail to send that file to root@localhost
>   (edit/change if you want) before deleting it.
>
> To use drop them in a cronjob something like:
>
>   0 6 * * 0 /home/archiver/bin/mailman.backup
>
> A sample execution should look something like:
>
>   $ ./mailman.backup
>    -- Posting for All Recipients --
>     -- Local Recipients --
>     root: address ok
>    -- Recipient Copies Posted --
>   Message Processed
>
> The result will be that every time the cronjob runs it will send you
> (in this case root@host.dom) a message looking something like:
>
>   Subject: mailman.lists.20011128.tar.gz
>   From: nobody@kanga.nu
>   Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 21:12:55 -0800
>   To: root@kanga.nu
>
>   
>
> Where the MIME attachment is the tarball constructed by
> ~/bin/mailman.backup.  Edit the value of sendto in mailman.backup if
> you want them going somewhere else.
>
> I've added this to FAQ at:
>
>   http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.006.htp
>
> --
> J C Lawrence
> ---------(*)                Satan, oscillate my metallic sonatas.
> claw@kanga.nu               He lived as a devil, eh?
> http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/  Evil is a name of a foeman, as I live.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users maillist  -  Mailman-Users@python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users



From claw@kanga.nu  Thu Nov 29 07:36:54 2001
From: claw@kanga.nu (J C Lawrence)
Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 23:36:54 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Re: [Mailman-Users] Backing up Mailman list installations
In-Reply-To: Message from "Jon Carnes" 
 of "Thu, 29 Nov 2001 02:09:17 EST." <050901c178a4$c27790f0$0b04010a@JCARNES>
References: <20105.1007012081@kanga.nu>  <050901c178a4$c27790f0$0b04010a@JCARNES>
Message-ID: <22917.1007019414@kanga.nu>

On Thu, 29 Nov 2001 02:09:17 -0500 
Jon Carnes  wrote:

> Cool scripts.  

Hacks really.

> I used to do something similar, and then I moved over to using
> "ncftp" to drop the tarball off on my backup-server.  A matter of
> preference, but I like that better than mailing myself the
> tarball.

Originally I kept the tarballs as versioned files in a ZOO archive.
I didn't like this as ZOO suffers as a tool and there was no
distribution.

Then I used to SSH/scp the tarballs to myself on another system.  I
didn't like this as it required that the tool that did the file copy
must be able to authenticate itself on the other system (ie SSH
public key authentication).  I didn't like that as compromise of the
local system thereby implied compromise of the the other system as
well (or at least questions of untrusted shell access).  Not good.

No I mail them.  No trust models required other than the fact that
I'm implicitly exposing the tarballs en-route to interception, and
thus the password/membership base as well.  Well, that would be a
problem except that the root account on that box delivers to a local
mbox which I collect over an IMAP-SSL connection (the wonders of
fetchmail).

So, I get a decent trust model *and* distribution.

-- 
J C Lawrence                
---------(*)                Satan, oscillate my metallic sonatas. 
claw@kanga.nu               He lived as a devil, eh?		  
http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/  Evil is a name of a foeman, as I live.


From Dale Newfield   Thu Nov 29 07:42:05 2001
From: Dale Newfield  (Dale Newfield)
Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2001 02:42:05 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Re: [Mailman-Users] Backing up Mailman list
 installations
In-Reply-To: <22917.1007019414@kanga.nu>
Message-ID: 

On Wed, 28 Nov 2001, J C Lawrence wrote:
> [S]o I mail them.  No trust models required other than the fact that
> I'm implicitly exposing the tarballs en-route to interception, and
> thus the password/membership base as well.  Well, that would be a
> problem except that the root account on that box delivers to a local
> mbox which I collect over an IMAP-SSL connection (the wonders of
> fetchmail).
>
> So, I get a decent trust model *and* distribution.


---
Dale Newfield 

"My country, right or wrong" is not a cogent argument.
It is one step away from "I was only following orders."



From Dale Newfield   Thu Nov 29 07:44:16 2001
From: Dale Newfield  (Dale Newfield)
Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2001 02:44:16 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Re: [Mailman-Users] Backing up Mailman list
 installations
In-Reply-To: <22917.1007019414@kanga.nu>
Message-ID: 

Sorry for this double intrusion, but I must apologize for the first
unintentional one.  I had intended to cancel that composition instead of
sending it--sorry for filling your mailboxes with messages empty of
content.

-Dale Newfield
 Dale@Newfield.org



From barry@zope.com  Thu Nov 29 21:04:23 2001
From: barry@zope.com (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2001 16:04:23 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Re: [Mailman-Users] Bounce Options
References: <040401c178eb$752e49a0$7b008d0a@sc.slr.com>
 <20011129100824.A12696@ssc.com>
Message-ID: <15366.41687.561263.356123@anthem.wooz.org>

[Changing followups to mailman-developers as this discussion really
belongs there.  -BAW]

>>>>> "DW" == Dan Wilder  writes:

    DW> I guess I'm wondering if anybody recalls the intent of this
    DW> code.

The only person who ever had a chance of understanding the intent is
John Viega, but he's been removed from Mailman hacking for so long, I
doubt even he remembers.

I've looked at this stuff too, and there are a number of things that
seem just plain broken to me.  I'd like to rewrite it all, but I'm not
sure there will be time before 2.1.

-Barry


From Dale Newfield   Thu Nov 29 21:58:38 2001
From: Dale Newfield  (Dale Newfield)
Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2001 16:58:38 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Re: [Mailman-Users] Bounce Options
In-Reply-To: <15366.41687.561263.356123@anthem.wooz.org>
Message-ID: 

> I've looked at this stuff too, and there are a number of things that
> seem just plain broken to me.  I'd like to rewrite it all, but I'm not
> sure there will be time before 2.1.

I poked around in this myself a bit ago, w/o much benefit.  It's a bit
jumbled in there, and I thought it was an indication that either I just
didn't understand it or it was broken.  After a while I became convinced
of the later, and I got discouraged. :-)  Just so it's on your radar when
you do take a look at it, I'll mention that we only sometimes get the
notification of bounce removals.

-Dale



From dan@ssc.com  Thu Nov 29 23:55:26 2001
From: dan@ssc.com (Dan Wilder)
Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2001 15:55:26 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Re: [Mailman-Users] Bounce Options
In-Reply-To: <15366.41687.561263.356123@anthem.wooz.org>
References: <040401c178eb$752e49a0$7b008d0a@sc.slr.com> <20011129100824.A12696@ssc.com> <15366.41687.561263.356123@anthem.wooz.org>
Message-ID: <20011129155526.A14551@ssc.com>

On Thu, Nov 29, 2001 at 04:04:23PM -0500, Barry A. Warsaw wrote:
> 
> [Changing followups to mailman-developers as this discussion really
> belongs there.  -BAW]
> 
> >>>>> "DW" == Dan Wilder  writes:
> 
>     DW> I guess I'm wondering if anybody recalls the intent of this
>     DW> code.
> 
> The only person who ever had a chance of understanding the intent is
> John Viega, but he's been removed from Mailman hacking for so long, I
> doubt even he remembers.

Hmm.

So what's a reasonable intent for bounce handling?  

Here's a sketch.  No doubt I misunderstand important points.
Perhaps others would be kind enough to comment.

Presuming the list is configured for automatic bounce handling
at all, it would seem reasonable to claim that there are 
circumstances under which bounce handling might unsubscribe or 
disable mail to a subscriber.

The sporadic bounce probably shouldn't cause this sort of action.
So, there should be some forgiveness mechanism in place.

Several bounces over a short period of time might reasonably
be forgiven, or treated as a single bounce.  Many situations
that will cause a bounce involve some misconfiguration which
the conscientious sysadmin will shamefacedly correct as soon as
it is brought to his or her attention.  A heavily trafficked
list might not want to unsubscribe even members who cause several
bounces, providing these fall within a short period of time.

Several bounces over a longer period of time might be cause
for suspension, even if posts are accepted between.

The existing bounce handling makes some distinction I don't
understand between "fatal" bounces and "nonfatal" bounces.  
Is this "no such user" versus "host busy", for example?


-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------
 Dan Wilder    Technical Manager & Editor
 SSC, Inc. P.O. Box 55549   Phone:  206-782-8808
 Seattle, WA  98155-0549    URL http://embedded.linuxjournal.com/
-----------------------------------------------------------------


From bob@nleaudio.com  Fri Nov 30 03:02:46 2001
From: bob@nleaudio.com (Bob Puff@NLE)
Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2001 22:02:46 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Re: [Mailman-Users] Bounce Options
References: 
Message-ID: <3C06F6D6.F88BB394@nleaudio.com>

Yeah, I was just chatting with Barry about this.  There are some serious problems with the bounce handling.  A user can be removed with only two bounces, if they occur 5 days apart (if you have your bounce handlign set to 5 days of continuous bouncing).

I have done some work in fixing up bounce -detection- (at least on my sites, Mailman was catching about 80% of the bounces... now it gets 99.9%).  But after it detects it... that part needs help!

Bob


From claw@kanga.nu  Fri Nov 30 06:30:35 2001
From: claw@kanga.nu (J C Lawrence)
Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2001 22:30:35 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] MailGraph for Postfix
Message-ID: <19484.1007101835@kanga.nu>

http://people.ee.ethz.ch/~dws/software/mailgraph/

----
Mailgraph is a very simple mail statistics RRDtool frontend for
Postfix that produces daily, weekly, monthly and yearly graphs of
received/sent and bounced/rejected mail.
----

It doesn't do the level of abstraction I'd really like (graphing per
Sender: header), but its fairly easy to extend to do that if I ever
get around to it.  ITMT its a rather useful general MTA performance
and monitoring tool.  Certainly it revealed me a few things about my
mail systems I hadn't fully grokked before. 

Demo site:

  http://people.ee.ethz.ch/~dws/mailgraph/mailgraph.cgi

Note: If you use syslog-ng there's a very simple patch you'll need
to make to the Parse:Syslog package to get it to properly read
syslog-ng log entries.

-- 
J C Lawrence                
---------(*)                Satan, oscillate my metallic sonatas. 
claw@kanga.nu               He lived as a devil, eh?		  
http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/  Evil is a name of a foeman, as I live.


From jmeurer@gmx.de  Fri Nov 30 07:49:31 2001
From: jmeurer@gmx.de (Jonas Meurer)
Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 08:49:31 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Administrate mailman from shell
Message-ID: <20011130084931.A523@testsystem.server0.de>

Hello,
Is there a way to configure mailman completely from the shell?
It don't has to be compfortable, it only is for scripts etc...
I've heard somewhere that it's possible.
The cgi-bin-scripts also only can execute probrams, he?
Is there a howto for administrate and configure mailman from
the shell? If not, can anyone list me all commandlines?
As compensation then I will write a howto.

Thanks
   Jonas

-- 
Definition of Atheism: a non-prophet organization.


From claw@kanga.nu  Fri Nov 30 08:01:58 2001
From: claw@kanga.nu (J C Lawrence)
Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 00:01:58 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Administrate mailman from shell
In-Reply-To: Message from Jonas Meurer 
 of "Fri, 30 Nov 2001 08:49:31 +0100." <20011130084931.A523@testsystem.server0.de>
References: <20011130084931.A523@testsystem.server0.de>
Message-ID: <21123.1007107318@kanga.nu>

On Fri, 30 Nov 2001 08:49:31 +0100 
Jonas Meurer  wrote:

> Is there a way to configure mailman completely from the
> shell?  

Yes.  ~/bin/with_list.  Knowledge of Python and Mailman internals is
required.  See the list archives for examples.  Please drop your
findings in the FAQ:

  http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=home

-- 
J C Lawrence                
---------(*)                Satan, oscillate my metallic sonatas. 
claw@kanga.nu               He lived as a devil, eh?		  
http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/  Evil is a name of a foeman, as I live.


From R.Barrett@ftel.co.uk  Fri Nov 30 10:45:40 2001
From: R.Barrett@ftel.co.uk (Richard Barrett)
Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 10:45:40 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Administrate mailman from shell
In-Reply-To: <20011130084931.A523@testsystem.server0.de>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20011130104349.0301f008@pop.ftel.co.uk>

At 08:49 30/11/2001 +0100, Jonas Meurer wrote:
>Hello,
>Is there a way to configure mailman completely from the shell?
>It don't has to be compfortable, it only is for scripts etc...
>I've heard somewhere that it's possible.
>The cgi-bin-scripts also only can execute probrams, he?
>Is there a howto for administrate and configure mailman from
>the shell? If not, can anyone list me all commandlines?
>As compensation then I will write a howto.
>
>Thanks
>    Jonas

You could try reviewing the function of scripts in $prefix/bin; execute 
them with the -h option to find out what they do. For instance, you can use 
the $prefix/bin/config_list to configure your lists.



From Nigel.Metheringham@VData.co.uk  Fri Nov 30 10:49:55 2001
From: Nigel.Metheringham@VData.co.uk (Nigel Metheringham)
Date: 30 Nov 2001 10:49:55 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Re: [Mailman-Users] Subscriber names
In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.20011127071312.006be34c@pop3.hank.org>
References: 
 
 <3.0.3.32.20011127071312.006be34c@pop3.hank.org>
Message-ID: <1007117395.1524.11.camel@gaspode.localnet>

On Tue, 2001-11-27 at 15:13, Bill Moseley wrote:
> At 09:54 AM 11/27/2001 -0500, Greg Ward wrote:
> 
> >
> >I've just added a new entry to the FAQ Wizard:
> 
> Should the FAQ Wizzard be listed on the list.org home page?

Definitely.
I think it should also be added to the list message footers - I mean if
people ignore the subscribe/unsubscribe info there, we should give them
the means and opportunity to ignore the FAQs references there too :-}

	Nigel.





From Nigel.Metheringham@VData.co.uk  Fri Nov 30 11:06:36 2001
From: Nigel.Metheringham@VData.co.uk (Nigel Metheringham)
Date: 30 Nov 2001 11:06:36 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Re: [Mailman-Users] Bounce Options
In-Reply-To: <20011129155526.A14551@ssc.com>
References: <040401c178eb$752e49a0$7b008d0a@sc.slr.com>
 <20011129100824.A12696@ssc.com> <15366.41687.561263.356123@anthem.wooz.org>
 <20011129155526.A14551@ssc.com>
Message-ID: <1007118397.1524.13.camel@gaspode.localnet>

On Thu, 2001-11-29 at 23:55, Dan Wilder wrote:
> So what's a reasonable intent for bounce handling?  
> 
> Here's a sketch.  No doubt I misunderstand important points.
> Perhaps others would be kind enough to comment.
> 
> Presuming the list is configured for automatic bounce handling
> at all, it would seem reasonable to claim that there are 
> circumstances under which bounce handling might unsubscribe or 
> disable mail to a subscriber.

Definitely.  In general I (as list admin) want almost zero involvement
here.

> The sporadic bounce probably shouldn't cause this sort of action.
> So, there should be some forgiveness mechanism in place.

Yes - I occaisionally bounce stuff from bugtraq because we have a filter
on that bounces executable content (ie outlook virus hacks), but it also
bounces some exploit code :-)
So I sometimes bounce 10% of the messages in a day.

> Several bounces over a short period of time might reasonably
> be forgiven, or treated as a single bounce.  Many situations
> that will cause a bounce involve some misconfiguration which
> the conscientious sysadmin will shamefacedly correct as soon as
> it is brought to his or her attention.  A heavily trafficked
> list might not want to unsubscribe even members who cause several
> bounces, providing these fall within a short period of time.
> 
> Several bounces over a longer period of time might be cause
> for suspension, even if posts are accepted between.
> 
> The existing bounce handling makes some distinction I don't
> understand between "fatal" bounces and "nonfatal" bounces.  
> Is this "no such user" versus "host busy", for example?

SMTP has immediate and retryable errors

For an announce list - I have a few (similar to mailman-announce) which
have traffic in single digits per month (if that high), the rules may
need to be different - 2 bounces from a user in 5 days is going to be
close to impossible to achieve for example :-)

Unfortunately its hard to identify correctly delivered messages - so you
cannot easily use a "if a message is delivered correctly, reset the
death counter" approach - one UK ISP routinely bounces mail to their
users that has not been picked up after 30 days (and their bounce
messages are currently unparsable).

	Nigel.




From dan@ssc.com  Fri Nov 30 16:40:11 2001
From: dan@ssc.com (Dan Wilder)
Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 08:40:11 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Re: [Mailman-Users] Subscriber names
In-Reply-To: <1007117395.1524.11.camel@gaspode.localnet>
References:   <3.0.3.32.20011127071312.006be34c@pop3.hank.org> <1007117395.1524.11.camel@gaspode.localnet>
Message-ID: <20011130084011.C20009@ssc.com>

On Fri, Nov 30, 2001 at 10:49:55AM +0000, Nigel Metheringham wrote:
> On Tue, 2001-11-27 at 15:13, Bill Moseley wrote:
> > At 09:54 AM 11/27/2001 -0500, Greg Ward wrote:
> > 
> > >
> > >I've just added a new entry to the FAQ Wizard:
> > 
> > Should the FAQ Wizzard be listed on the list.org home page?
> 
> Definitely.
> I think it should also be added to the list message footers - I mean if
> people ignore the subscribe/unsubscribe info there, we should give them
> the means and opportunity to ignore the FAQs references there too :-}
> 
> 	Nigel.

Amen.  It's a great resource.

I was just a moment ago looking for it. I'd misplaced the link, 
and was surprised to see it _wasn't_ shown on the list.org
home page.

-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------
 Dan Wilder    Technical Manager & Editor
 SSC, Inc. P.O. Box 55549   Phone:  206-782-8808
 Seattle, WA  98155-0549    URL http://embedded.linuxjournal.com/
-----------------------------------------------------------------


From dan@ssc.com  Fri Nov 30 17:01:21 2001
From: dan@ssc.com (Dan Wilder)
Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 09:01:21 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Re: [Mailman-Users] Bounce Options
In-Reply-To: <1007118397.1524.13.camel@gaspode.localnet>
References: <040401c178eb$752e49a0$7b008d0a@sc.slr.com> <20011129100824.A12696@ssc.com> <15366.41687.561263.356123@anthem.wooz.org> <20011129155526.A14551@ssc.com> <1007118397.1524.13.camel@gaspode.localnet>
Message-ID: <20011130090120.D20009@ssc.com>

On Fri, Nov 30, 2001 at 11:06:36AM +0000, Nigel Metheringham wrote:
> On Thu, 2001-11-29 at 23:55, Dan Wilder wrote:
> > So what's a reasonable intent for bounce handling?  
> > 
> > Here's a sketch.  No doubt I misunderstand important points.
> > Perhaps others would be kind enough to comment.
> > 
> > Presuming the list is configured for automatic bounce handling
> > at all, it would seem reasonable to claim that there are 
> > circumstances under which bounce handling might unsubscribe or 
> > disable mail to a subscriber.
> 
> Definitely.  In general I (as list admin) want almost zero involvement
> here.
> 
> > The sporadic bounce probably shouldn't cause this sort of action.
> > So, there should be some forgiveness mechanism in place.
> 
> Yes - I occaisionally bounce stuff from bugtraq because we have a filter
> on that bounces executable content (ie outlook virus hacks), but it also
> bounces some exploit code :-)
> So I sometimes bounce 10% of the messages in a day.
> 
> > Several bounces over a short period of time might reasonably
> > be forgiven, or treated as a single bounce.  Many situations
> > that will cause a bounce involve some misconfiguration which
> > the conscientious sysadmin will shamefacedly correct as soon as
> > it is brought to his or her attention.  A heavily trafficked
> > list might not want to unsubscribe even members who cause several
> > bounces, providing these fall within a short period of time.
> > 
> > Several bounces over a longer period of time might be cause
> > for suspension, even if posts are accepted between.
> > 
> > The existing bounce handling makes some distinction I don't
> > understand between "fatal" bounces and "nonfatal" bounces.  
> > Is this "no such user" versus "host busy", for example?
> 
> SMTP has immediate and retryable errors
> 
> For an announce list - I have a few (similar to mailman-announce) which
> have traffic in single digits per month (if that high), the rules may
> need to be different - 2 bounces from a user in 5 days is going to be
> close to impossible to achieve for example :-)

On the other hand, removal after four bounces within two months might work 
OK for you.  Provided there's some way to forgive those who also
accepted delivery on, say, three consecutive posts.

> Unfortunately its hard to identify correctly delivered messages - so you
> cannot easily use a "if a message is delivered correctly, reset the
> death counter" approach - 

Yes.  That could be what's behind some of the difficult-to-understand
and maybe broken stuff in Bouncer.py.

No news would seem to be good news.  Provided there's been a post or 
two during the "no-news" time.  

An adequate forgiveness mechanism should probably take list
traffic into account, but I'll confess I'm having a hard time
getting my head around just what would make sense.  Everything
I think of gets complex too fast.  A sign of either an intractable 
problem or a wrong solution.  I can't believe this problem is
intractable.

> one UK ISP routinely bounces mail to their
> users that has not been picked up after 30 days (and their bounce
> messages are currently unparsable).

Ugh!

-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------
 Dan Wilder    Technical Manager & Editor
 SSC, Inc. P.O. Box 55549   Phone:  206-782-8808
 Seattle, WA  98155-0549    URL http://embedded.linuxjournal.com/
-----------------------------------------------------------------


From barry@zope.com  Fri Nov 30 19:36:53 2001
From: barry@zope.com (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 14:36:53 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Re: [Mailman-Users] Bounce Options
References: <040401c178eb$752e49a0$7b008d0a@sc.slr.com>
 <20011129100824.A12696@ssc.com>
 <15366.41687.561263.356123@anthem.wooz.org>
 <20011129155526.A14551@ssc.com>
 <1007118397.1524.13.camel@gaspode.localnet>
 <20011130090120.D20009@ssc.com>
Message-ID: <15367.57301.922260.236155@anthem.wooz.org>

Here are some of my recent "shower" thoughts about bounce handling
(i.e. what does Mailman do /after/ it detects a bounce?).

- We can't do any positive delivery death-resets because in general
  we're never informed about successful deliveries.  Anything that
  relies on such notices will be too unreliable.

- We (can) know exactly two things:
    1) how many messages we've sent per period of time
    2) how many bounces we've in that same period of time from a
       specific user

- It's probably infeasible to link specific deliveries with specific
  bounces (we could possibly do it w/VERP, but it'll make things too
  complicated).

- For simplicity, let's treat non-fatal bounces (some temporary
  outage) the same as fatal bounces (user goes away)

- We want to keep the knobs that a list admin can twiddle to a
  minimum, and make them completely obvious.

- Provide a multi-phase disposition to bouncing addresses.  I.e. at
  the first phase we disable them, then we send some disable
  notifications, then we remove them.

- We need to differentiate b/w disabled-by-bounce and
  disabled-by-choice.

So, here's my proposal:

Each list has a "bounce start date", which can be the list's creation
date if it has one (MM2.1), or some arbitrary time post where we start
counting.

We already count the number of messages sent through the list via the
post-id.  We may need to reset this to zero if we're using an
arbitrary t0.

These two pieces of information give us the number of messages/day
average being sent though the list.

When a user starts bouncing, we record the start time.  We continue to
count the number of bounces from this address for some configurable
amount of time.

    List admin knob 1: For how many consecutive days should an address
    be bouncing before we take action?   Proposed default: 14

After that, we look at how many bounces this person had, and the
average delivery rate of the list.  We can thus calculate roughly the
percentage of deliveries that this user bounced.

    List admin knob 2: Percentage of total deliveries to the list that
    must bounce for an address, in the above time period, for that
    address to be automatically disposed of.  Proposed default: 50%

Thus if we sent out an average of 500 messages to the list, and over
the last 14 days we saw 250 bounces from bogus@dom.ain, we would
dispose of this address.  (Side note: we have to keep track of regular
vs. digest deliveries separately).

    List admin knob 3: Action to take when disposing of a bouncing
    address.  "Disable w/ occasional reminders", "Disable w/ one last
    notice", "Disable w/o notice", "Remove now w/ one last notice",
    "Remove now w/o notice".  Proposed default: "Disable w/ occasional
    reminders".

All but the first should be obvious.  "Disable w/ occasional
reminders" means we disable the address from regular delivery, but
start sending them occasional reminders about their disabled
delivery.  The reminder will contain instructions for re-enabling, as
well as a note like "You will receive 3 more reminders over the next
21 days unless you take action".

    List admin knob 4: How many days should there be between reminders
    to disabled addresses?  Proposed default: 7

    List admin knob 5: Total number of reminders to send before second
    order disposition occurs?  Proposed default: 4

A person who's membership has been disabled due to bounces must
explicitly re-enable delivery via their options page, or via the
confirmation cookie contained in the reminder messages.

    List admin knob 6: Second order disposition for bouncing members
    who do not re-enable their accounts: "Disable w/ one last notice",
    "Disable w/o notice", "Remove now w/ one last notice", "Remove now
    w/o notice".  Proposed default: Remove now w/ one last notice.

The last knob allows the list administrator to cull all disabled
bouncing addresses in one fell swoop.  This will be a volatile option
that performs an immediate action.  Note that only addresses disabled
via bouncing will be removed.

If a member has been bouncing because of temporary problems, they
will probably never reach the threshold for automatic phase 1
disposition, given a high enough percentage or a long enough tracking
period.  Even if they are, and we send out reminders, they should be
able to just go to their options page and re-enable (the options page
clearly tells them that their account is disabled).

Mailman has a problem currently that we have no idea whether an
address is disabled-by-choice or disabled-by-bounce.  We need to fix
that, but what to do about all the addresses that are currently
disabled?  We could just treat them all as disabled-by-bounce, sending
an occasional reminder, and asking them if they really want to keep
their disabled membership, they should go to their options page and
re-click on the no-mail option.  Anybody who doesn't do this within
the second-phase gets removed as per above.

Thoughts?
-Barry


From bob@nleaudio.com  Fri Nov 30 22:35:01 2001
From: bob@nleaudio.com (Bob Puff@NLE)
Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 17:35:01 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Re: [Mailman-Users] Bounce Options
References: <040401c178eb$752e49a0$7b008d0a@sc.slr.com>
 <20011129100824.A12696@ssc.com>
 <15366.41687.561263.356123@anthem.wooz.org>
 <20011129155526.A14551@ssc.com>
 <1007118397.1524.13.camel@gaspode.localnet>
 <20011130090120.D20009@ssc.com> <15367.57301.922260.236155@anthem.wooz.org>
Message-ID: <3C080995.373AC64B@nleaudio.com>

Barry:

Good thoughts.  Let me add something:

On all my lists, if a person is bouncing, I want them removed, not just set to nomail.  Otherwise as you mentioned, the nomail list gets bigger and bigger.  AFAIK, the only people that should be on the nomail list are those who have signed up as such.

So if you want to do the "I'm about to nuke you, one last chance" thing, I would suggest _another_ bit be used in their settings to identify this.

Also update list_members so that you can sort by these fields.  (Shameless plug - my modified list_members already lets you sort by nomail, and digest type.  Did this patch get merged into 2.08?)

I'm not so sure if doing an estimated average of messages sent is the right thing.  How about something like this:

Each user has three entries: time/date stamp for first bounce, time/date stamp for last bounce, and a bounce counter (16 bits should be fine!)

Upon a bounce, do this:

1. Time/date stamp the last_bounce field with the current time/date.
2. Check the first_bounce field to see if it is null.  If so, put the current time/date stamp there too, and set the bounce_counter to 0.
3. Increment the bounce counter.  (actually not used in this text.)

Do nothing else at this point.

Now, we know when a regular message goes out, and we also know when a digest goes out.  Keep a record of the last x (21?) days' worth of postings (see below).

Now! Once a day, set up a cron script to go through each user entry.  Do the following:

1. Examine the first_bounce time/date stamp.  If null, skip to the next user.
2. Check out post log to see how many days since first_bounce have had messages.  Is it less than X days?  
   YES: does last_bounce = the last entry date in the posting log (or today)?
        YES: we're still bouncing, but haven't hit our cutoff yet.  Skip to the next user.
        NO: NULL out the first_bounce, and go to the next user.  We apparently stopped bouncing, so we need to reset.
   NO: we've hit our age limit.  Let's see if he's still bouncing:  Does last_bounce = the last entry date in the posting log (or today)?
        YES: NUKE EM!!!
        NO: Null out the first_bounce, and go to the next user.  Apparently this guy really lucked out, and stopped bouncing the day before he would have been nuked (remember, we are doing this every day).

The posting log would only need to have a single entry of a date for each day that a message was sent thru the list, i.e.,
11/28/01
11/29/01
11/30/01  etc...

This could be updated at the same time the daily_digest is dispatched, or it could be part of the main qrunner system.  The key is having an entry here for each day a message is sent out.  It is such a small file that you could suck it into memory, and "rotate" it so that it only keeps a history of x+1 entries (say 21).

This allows us to catch and properly detect the bounces for the inactive lists as well.

Notice that I didn't even use the bounce_counter.   You could still test for it, but I think continuous bouncing over x days is a better method to use.

Using the above algorithm does have this flaw: if a user bounces one message per day, it will still remove them.  But sporatic problems usually don't surface like that.

Bob