From chris@greatbridge.com Thu Mar 1 18:57:15 2001 From: chris@greatbridge.com (Chris Ryan) Date: Thu, 01 Mar 2001 13:57:15 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] qrunner just keeps going and going Message-ID: <3A9E9B8B.EA144D86@greatbridge.com> I've got the latest setup on system and one of the problems I'm having is that qrunner (as per cron) runs every minute however each instance stays alive (spawning several other instances like IncomingRunner, OutgoingRunner, etc. so every minute I have eight (1 crond, 1 qrunner and 1 each of the six different runners) process start and sit on my machine doing nothing. This doesn't seem it is supposed to work this way. According to qrunner it says it runs and makes sure they different runners are doing their jobs. If this is the case then shouldn't qrunner detect if an instance of it is already running and abort or perhaps it should be started from init??? Any enlightenment someone could shed would be great. Thanks in advance. Chris Ryan chris@greatbridge.com From barry@digicool.com Thu Mar 1 20:36:08 2001 From: barry@digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw) Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 15:36:08 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] qrunner just keeps going and going References: <3A9E9B8B.EA144D86@greatbridge.com> Message-ID: <15006.45752.218654.994011@anthem.wooz.org> >>>>> "CR" == Chris Ryan writes: CR> I've got the latest setup on system and one of the problems CR> I'm having is that qrunner (as per cron) runs every minute CR> however each instance stays alive (spawning several other CR> instances like IncomingRunner, OutgoingRunner, etc. so every CR> minute I have eight (1 crond, 1 qrunner and 1 each of the six CR> different runners) process start and sit on my machine doing CR> nothing. CR> This doesn't seem it is supposed to work this way. According CR> to qrunner it says it runs and makes sure they different CR> runners are doing their jobs. If this is the case then CR> shouldn't qrunner detect if an instance of it is already CR> running and abort or perhaps it should be started from init??? Remember, you're running very very green code. I haven't even released it as an alpha yet! I do appreciate the feedback though. Eventually, I envison qrunner running from init, but in the spirit of backwards compatibility, I think the master qrunner should drop a lock file and subsequent invocations should exit if they cannot acquire the lock. CR> Any enlightenment someone could shed would be great. Watch for a checkin shortly. -Barry From chris@greatbridge.com Thu Mar 1 20:46:23 2001 From: chris@greatbridge.com (Chris Ryan) Date: Thu, 01 Mar 2001 15:46:23 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] qrunner just keeps going and going References: <3A9E9B8B.EA144D86@greatbridge.com> <15006.45752.218654.994011@anthem.wooz.org> Message-ID: <3A9EB51F.F0596323@greatbridge.com> Barry, I do understand that I will encounter problems running the code straight from CVS. With the development I'm going to be doing with mailman for my company (and hope to contribute back) I want to use the latest code to minimize differences between what you are developing and what I develop. Also in the process if i can help by submitting bug reports etc. all the better, right :) So if I become a pain in the neck it's only cause I like Mailman and want to help make it the best it can be. Chris Ryan chris@greatbridge.com "Barry A. Warsaw" wrote: > > >>>>> "CR" == Chris Ryan writes: > > CR> I've got the latest setup on system and one of the problems > CR> I'm having is that qrunner (as per cron) runs every minute > CR> however each instance stays alive (spawning several other > CR> instances like IncomingRunner, OutgoingRunner, etc. so every > CR> minute I have eight (1 crond, 1 qrunner and 1 each of the six > CR> different runners) process start and sit on my machine doing > CR> nothing. > > CR> This doesn't seem it is supposed to work this way. According > CR> to qrunner it says it runs and makes sure they different > CR> runners are doing their jobs. If this is the case then > CR> shouldn't qrunner detect if an instance of it is already > CR> running and abort or perhaps it should be started from init??? > > Remember, you're running very very green code. I haven't even > released it as an alpha yet! I do appreciate the feedback though. > > Eventually, I envison qrunner running from init, but in the spirit of > backwards compatibility, I think the master qrunner should drop a lock > file and subsequent invocations should exit if they cannot acquire the > lock. > > CR> Any enlightenment someone could shed would be great. > > Watch for a checkin shortly. > -Barry From barry@digicool.com Thu Mar 1 21:19:23 2001 From: barry@digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw) Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 16:19:23 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] qrunner just keeps going and going References: <3A9E9B8B.EA144D86@greatbridge.com> <15006.45752.218654.994011@anthem.wooz.org> <3A9EB51F.F0596323@greatbridge.com> Message-ID: <15006.48347.407170.394008@anthem.wooz.org> >>>>> "CR" == Chris Ryan writes: CR> I do understand that I will encounter problems running CR> the code straight from CVS. With the development I'm going to CR> be doing with mailman for my company (and hope to contribute CR> back) I want to use the latest code to minimize differences CR> between what you are developing and what I develop. Also in CR> the process if i can help by submitting bug reports etc. all CR> the better, right :) So if I become a pain in the neck it's CR> only cause I like Mailman and want to help make it the best it CR> can be. Oh, I'm sorry if my response came off as gruff -- I really appreciate folks on the bleeding edge describing their wounds to me . Yes, yes, please continue going the way you're going, and thanks for the feedback! -Barry From dwalter@syr.edu Fri Mar 2 05:25:51 2001 From: dwalter@syr.edu (David Walter) Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2001 00:25:51 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] FIX: web admin login failures and cookies Message-ID: <3A9F2EDF.EC0FE59E@syr.edu> I have been having difficulty with the admin interface using mailman v1.1 as shipped with debian potato. Initially the login works fine for the first time after creating a new list. When I leave and return to the list I would have the same problem as others: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2000-July/005550.html When I started looking at the cookie data I noticed something. most cookies in my cookie file have a path = '/' mailman has a path = /cgi-bin/mailman Now, I thought about the suggestion when configuring with apache to set up an alias, this I did so that uri's now look like: http://hostname/mailman/listinfo Notice that this conflicts with the cookie lookup. When I type in the full uri: http://hostname/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo Voila! I didn't even have to type in the password the first time. So, is this path sent as part of the cookie data for a reason? I mean is there a possibility of an administrator configuring and installing mailman at more than one cgi path on the system with the same list names so that there might be a conflict? If not would it be possible to remove the path so that it would be consistent? Is the following the only places that this would affect grep GetRequestURI Mailman/*/* Mailman/* Cgi/admin.py:125: 'path' : Utils.GetRequestURI(defaulturi), Cgi/admindb.py:104: 'path' : Utils.GetRequestURI(defaulturi)\ text = Utils.maketext( 'admlogin.txt', {'listname': list_name, 'path' : Utils.GetRequestURI(defaulturi), 'message' : message, }) Please cc any reply. Thanks so much. Respectfully: David From jcrey@uma.es Fri Mar 2 14:01:15 2001 From: jcrey@uma.es (Juan Carlos Rey Anaya) Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2001 15:01:15 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Fresh install of i18n Mailman Message-ID: <3A9FA7AB.BFC93C4E@uma.es> I have tried to make a fresh install from CVS. I get one error that says: Compiling /home/mailman/Mailman/versions.py ... Traceback (most recent call last): File "bin/update", line 31, in ? from Mailman import Utils File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Utils.py", line 37, in ? from mimelib.MsgReader import MsgReader ImportError: No module named mimelib.MsgReader Has anybody experimented this?. Or did I forget how to install Mailman? :-) Cheers -- = ___ / F \ [[[]]]] ( O O ) #----------------0000--(_)--0000---------------# | Juan Carlos Rey Anaya (jcrey@uma.es) | | Servicio Central de inform=E1tica | | Universidad de M=E1laga - Espa=F1a | #----------------------------------------------# From chris@greatbridge.com Fri Mar 2 14:37:23 2001 From: chris@greatbridge.com (Chris Ryan) Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2001 09:37:23 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Fresh install of i18n Mailman References: <3A9FA7AB.BFC93C4E@uma.es> Message-ID: <3A9FB023.9D3FEEA8@greatbridge.com> Juan, I had a similar problem a few days ago when I first started installing the new Mailman code from CVS. It eventually went away and i don't remember how or what I did to get everything correct. The solution I used the first time was to create a soft link called mimelib in ~mailman/Mailman pointing to /usr/local/lib/python2.0/site-packages/mimelib. Your paths may be a little different but it is worth a try as it worked for me. ex: $ ln -s /usr/local/lib/python2.0/site-packages/mimelib /home/mailman/Mailman/mimelib Hope this helps. Chris Ryan chris@greatbridge.com Juan Carlos Rey Anaya wrote: >=20 > I have tried to make a fresh install from CVS. > I get one error that says: >=20 > Compiling /home/mailman/Mailman/versions.py ... > Traceback (most recent call last): > File "bin/update", line 31, in ? > from Mailman import Utils > File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Utils.py", line 37, in ? > from mimelib.MsgReader import MsgReader > ImportError: No module named mimelib.MsgReader >=20 > Has anybody experimented this?. Or did I forget how to install Mailman? > :-) > Cheers > -- > ___ > / F \ > [[[]]]] > ( O O ) > #----------------0000--(_)--0000---------------# > | Juan Carlos Rey Anaya (jcrey@uma.es) | > | Servicio Central de inform=E1tica | > | Universidad de M=E1laga - Espa=F1a | > #----------------------------------------------# >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Mailman-Developers mailing list > Mailman-Developers@python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers From ralph@inputplus.demon.co.uk Fri Mar 2 14:27:13 2001 From: ralph@inputplus.demon.co.uk (Ralph Corderoy) Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2001 14:27:13 +0000 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Fresh install of i18n Mailman In-Reply-To: Message from Juan Carlos Rey Anaya of "Fri, 02 Mar 2001 15:01:15 +0100." <3A9FA7AB.BFC93C4E@uma.es> Message-ID: <200103021427.OAA08418@inputplus.demon.co.uk> Hi, > I have tried to make a fresh install from CVS. > I get one error that says: > > Compiling /home/mailman/Mailman/versions.py ... > Traceback (most recent call last): > File "bin/update", line 31, in ? > from Mailman import Utils > File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Utils.py", line 37, in ? > from mimelib.MsgReader import MsgReader > ImportError: No module named mimelib.MsgReader > > Has anybody experimented this?. Or did I forget how to install Mailman? Have you fetched Barry's new mimelib module? This is a FAQ these days; I think the docs in CVS might mention it's required. Ralph. From barry@digicool.com Fri Mar 2 16:18:13 2001 From: barry@digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw) Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2001 11:18:13 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-i18n] Re: [Mailman-Developers] Fresh install of i18n Mailman References: <3A9FA7AB.BFC93C4E@uma.es> <200103021427.OAA08418@inputplus.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: <15007.51141.397381.643802@anthem.wooz.org> >>>>> "RC" == Ralph Corderoy writes: RC> Have you fetched Barry's new mimelib module? http://barry.wooz.org/software/Code/mimelib-0.2.tar.gz It will eventually be bundled so a separate download won't be necessary. -Barry From jarrell@vt.edu Fri Mar 2 15:01:05 2001 From: jarrell@vt.edu (Ron Jarrell) Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2001 10:01:05 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Fresh install of i18n Mailman In-Reply-To: <3A9FA7AB.BFC93C4E@uma.es> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20010302100049.03d2a080@vtserf.cc.vt.edu> At 03:01 PM 3/2/01 +0100, Juan Carlos Rey Anaya wrote: >I have tried to make a fresh install from CVS. >I get one error that says: > >Compiling /home/mailman/Mailman/versions.py ... >Traceback (most recent call last): > File "bin/update", line 31, in ? > from Mailman import Utils > File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Utils.py", line 37, in ? > from mimelib.MsgReader import MsgReader >ImportError: No module named mimelib.MsgReader > >Has anybody experimented this?. Or did I forget how to install Mailman? >:-) Did you follow the instructions Barry posted earlier, and install mimelib? From room_maildev@bbs.pixel.citadel.org Fri Mar 2 16:52:59 2001 From: room_maildev@bbs.pixel.citadel.org (Patriot) Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2001 11:52:59 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] (no subject) Message-ID: <309517@bbs.pixel.citadel.org> I posted this to the mailman-users group, but either I'm the only one having this problem, or people just don't know: I'm having an issue with 2.0.1 and news gatewaying. It works fine, importing usenet news into e-mail and sending it out, however /tmp is filling up with: 389120 Feb 27 20:46 filew5MNZN There are literally hundreds of these files and almost all of then are that same size. Does anyone know why this is ocurring? When I check the files each one is the same (I use diff) and they all seem to contain every post from each newsgroup I'm gatewaying. Any help would be appreciated. I didn't see anything in the archives on this. Thanks! From jarrell@vt.edu Fri Mar 2 16:46:40 2001 From: jarrell@vt.edu (Ron Jarrell) Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2001 11:46:40 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Fresh install of i18n Mailman In-Reply-To: <3A9FB023.9D3FEEA8@greatbridge.com> References: <3A9FA7AB.BFC93C4E@uma.es> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20010302114548.039fbcb0@vtserf.cc.vt.edu> At 09:37 AM 3/2/01 -0500, you wrote: >Juan, > > I had a similar problem a few days ago when I first started installing >the new Mailman code from CVS. It eventually went away and i don't >remember how or what I did to get everything correct. The solution I >used the first time was to create a soft link called mimelib in >~mailman/Mailman pointing to >/usr/local/lib/python2.0/site-packages/mimelib. Your paths may be a >little different but it is worth a try as it worked for me. You don't need the link; your problem is you were running files that didn't have the patch in them yet I realized we needed, which moves the import of mimelib to *after* the import of defaults. From barry@digicool.com Fri Mar 2 17:00:02 2001 From: barry@digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw) Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2001 12:00:02 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] (no subject) References: <309517@bbs.pixel.citadel.org> Message-ID: <15007.53650.687274.553975@anthem.wooz.org> >>>>> "P" == Patriot writes: P> I'm having an issue with 2.0.1 and news gatewaying. P> It works fine, importing usenet news into e-mail and sending P> it out, however /tmp is filling up with: P> 389120 Feb 27 20:46 filew5MNZN P> There are literally hundreds of these files and almost all of P> then are that same size. Does anyone know why this is P> ocurring? When I check the files each one is the same (I use P> diff) and they all seem to contain every post from each P> newsgroup I'm gatewaying. Hmm, I see none of these on mail.python.org which gates comp.lang.python and comp.lang.python.announce (in both directions). Python's nntplib doesn't appear to create any temp files, so I don't think it's coming from there, and I'm /sure/ Mailman doesn't create any temp files. Is your usenet software on the same machine as Mailman? Could those files be created by your news s/w? Who is the user and group owner of those files? -Barry From room_maildev@bbs.pixel.citadel.org Fri Mar 2 17:07:10 2001 From: room_maildev@bbs.pixel.citadel.org (Patriot) Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2001 12:07:10 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] >Hmm, I see none of these on mail.python.org which gates Message-ID: <309528@bbs.pixel.citadel.org> >Hmm, I see none of these on mail.python.org which gates >comp.lang.python and comp.lang.python.announce (in both directions). >Python's nntplib doesn't appear to create any temp files, so I don't >think it's coming from there, and I'm /sure/ Mailman doesn't create >any temp files. > >Is your usenet software on the same machine as Mailman? Could those >files be created by your news s/w? Who is the user and group owner of >those files? > >-Barry > -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 389120 Feb 27 18:01 filezSQFHI But your question is valid, and I hadn't thoughtof it. The gatewaying stuff I have left in the mailman crontab and there's not anyway it should be able to create those files as 'root', unless the wrapper's doing it. In any event, I have no idea what's causing this. As for 'usenet software' I'm not using anything but the gatewaying software. The usenet server's not on the same machine, it's at a different ISP...and again, like I said, each of those files is specifically a file full of each usenet posting that I have gatewayed. I'm stumped. From barry@digicool.com Fri Mar 2 17:12:02 2001 From: barry@digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw) Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2001 12:12:02 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] >Hmm, I see none of these on mail.python.org which gates References: <309528@bbs.pixel.citadel.org> Message-ID: <15007.54370.497187.324851@anthem.wooz.org> >>>>> "P" == Patriot writes: P> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 389120 Feb 27 18:01 filezSQFHI P> But your question is valid, and I hadn't thoughtof it. The P> gatewaying stuff I have left in the mailman crontab and there's P> not anyway it should be able to create those files as 'root', P> unless the wrapper's doing it. It shouldn't unless Mailman's been misconfigured. Are these files that your gating from mail to news, from news to mail, or both? Because if it's in only one direction, that might help narrow the problem down. Gating from news to mail happens by cron/gate_news. Gating from mail to news happens by the ToUsenet.py handler run by the qrunner. Neither should be able to create root owned files (if they were owned by user or group `mailman', then I'd be more suspecting of a Mailman problem). P> In any event, I have no idea what's causing this. As for P> 'usenet software' I'm not using anything but the gatewaying P> software. The usenet server's not on the same machine, it's at P> a different ISP...and again, like I said, each of those files P> is specifically a file full of each usenet posting that I have P> gatewayed. P> I'm stumped. Me too! -Barry From room_maildev@bbs.pixel.citadel.org Fri Mar 2 17:17:10 2001 From: room_maildev@bbs.pixel.citadel.org (Patriot) Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2001 12:17:10 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] >Gating from news to mail happens by cron/gate_news. Gatin Message-ID: <309535@bbs.pixel.citadel.org> >Gating from news to mail happens by cron/gate_news. Gating from mail >to news happens by the ToUsenet.py handler run by the qrunner. >Neither should be able to create root owned files (if they were owned >by user or group `mailman', then I'd be more suspecting of a Mailman >problem). Yes, I tend to agree. No it's configured and set up properly, all the ownerships are by mailman/mailman. I hadn't thought about the fact that root owned those files, so I'll do a little more digging when I figure out what's been happening and post back with more details if I can't. Thanks for your help and prompt replies! From barry@digicool.com Fri Mar 2 17:27:58 2001 From: barry@digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw) Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2001 12:27:58 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] >Gating from news to mail happens by cron/gate_news. Gatin References: <309535@bbs.pixel.citadel.org> Message-ID: <15007.55326.971282.18919@anthem.wooz.org> >>>>> "P" == Patriot writes: P> Yes, I tend to agree. No it's configured and set up properly, P> all the ownerships are by mailman/mailman. I hadn't thought P> about the fact that root owned those files, so I'll do a little P> more digging when I figure out what's been happening and post P> back with more details if I can't. P> Thanks for your help and prompt replies! Cool, no problem! -Barry From barry@digicool.com Sat Mar 3 08:26:35 2001 From: barry@digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw) Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2001 03:26:35 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] ANNOUNCE Mailman 2.0.2 (important privacy patch) Message-ID: <15008.43707.726965.293836@anthem.wooz.org> I've just uploaded the Mailman 2.0.2 release to SourceForge. This is a bug fix release that also fixes a potential privacy hole, which could allow a list administrator to get access to user passwords. Even with those passwords, I believe there's little additional harm that a list admin could do, but still they probably shouldn't have access to those passwords. There are a few other important fixes in this release, so I recommend that all sites running Mailman 2.0 or 2.0.1 should upgrade. As usual I'm releasing this as both a complete tarball and as a patch against Mailman 2.0.1. If you grab the patchfile, you'll want to cd into your 2.0 source, and apply it like so: % patch -p1 < mailman-2.0.1-2.0.2.diff Currently only http://mailman.sourceforge.net is updated, but the list.org and gnu.org sites should be updated soon. The release information on SF is at http://sourceforge.net/project/shownotes.php?release_id=25955 My thanks to Thomas Wouters for his help! Enjoy, -Barry P.S. I'm not sure if I'll have time to release a 2.1 alpha of the I18N stuff before I leave for the Python9 conference. If we get the expected foot of snow between Sunday and Monday, it's a possibility. ;) [From the NEWS file] 2.0.2 (03-Mar-2001) Security fix: - A fix for a potential privacy exploit where a clever list administrator could gain access to user passwords. This doesn't allow them to do much more harm to the user then they normally could, but they still shouldn't have access to the passwords. Bug fixes: - In the admindb page, don't complain when approving a subscription of someone who's already on the list (SF bug #222409 - Thomas Wouters). Also, quote for HTML the Subject: text printed for held messages, otherwise messages with e.g. "Subject: " could royally screw page formatting. - In Netscape.py bounce processor, don't bomb out on ill-formed messages (no semi-colon separating parameters), otherwise mail delivery could grind to a halt. Bug reported by Kambiz Aghaiepour. - Docstring fix bin/newlist to remove mention of "immediate" argument (Thomas Wouters). - Fix for bin/update when PREFIX != VAR_PREFIX (SF bug #229794 -- Thomas Wouters). From glaughln@memphis.edu Sat Mar 3 14:56:00 2001 From: glaughln@memphis.edu (Gregory K. Laughlin) Date: Sat, 03 Mar 2001 08:56:00 -0600 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Re: [Mailman-Announce] ANNOUNCE Mailman 2.0.2 (important privacy patch) In-Reply-To: <15008.43707.726965.293836@anthem.wooz.org> Message-ID: <5.0.1.4.0.20010303085403.00a52490@postoffice.memphis.edu> At 03:26 AM 3/3/01 -0500, you wrote: >As usual I'm releasing this as both a complete tarball and as a patch >against Mailman 2.0.1. If you grab the patchfile, you'll want to cd >into your 2.0 source, and apply it like so: > > % patch -p1 < mailman-2.0.1-2.0.2.diff When you say source directory, what does that mean. I have mailman installed in the /home/mailman directory on my server. Is that the source directory, or would it be one of its subdirectories. Sorry for the ignorance, by I am not certain of the nomenclature here. I would rather ask that get it wrong. From room_maildev@bbs.pixel.citadel.org Sat Mar 3 15:13:32 2001 From: room_maildev@bbs.pixel.citadel.org (Patriot) Date: Sat, 03 Mar 2001 10:13:32 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] A day or so ago I posted about the /tmp filling up with new Message-ID: <310118@bbs.pixel.citadel.org> A day or so ago I posted about the /tmp filling up with newsgroup files. Since I mentioned it here that hasn't happened again, so I can't track what the problem was. I didn't make any changes, here, or anything, so I have NO idea what was going on. I haven't even rebooted anything. *shrug* Now I'm more confused than I was before, but it all seems to be working. At least for now. I guess all I had to do was complain about it. :) From barry@digicool.com Sat Mar 3 15:48:43 2001 From: barry@digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw) Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2001 10:48:43 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Re: [Mailman-Announce] ANNOUNCE Mailman 2.0.2 (important privacy patch) References: <15008.43707.726965.293836@anthem.wooz.org> <5.0.1.4.0.20010303085403.00a52490@postoffice.memphis.edu> Message-ID: <15009.4699.923823.173264@anthem.wooz.org> >>>>> "GKL" == Gregory K Laughlin writes: >> As usual I'm releasing this as both a complete tarball and as a >> patch against Mailman 2.0.1. If you grab the patchfile, you'll >> want to cd into your 2.0 source, and apply it like so: % patch >> -p1 < mailman-2.0.1-2.0.2.diff GKL> When you say source directory, what does that mean. I have GKL> mailman installed in the /home/mailman directory on my GKL> server. Is that the source directory, or would it be one of GKL> its subdirectories. The source directory is the directory you unpacked the original source tarball and did a "configure; make install" in. It is probably not /home/mailman. Cheers, -Barry From barry@digicool.com Sat Mar 3 15:54:15 2001 From: barry@digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw) Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2001 10:54:15 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] A day or so ago I posted about the /tmp filling up with new References: <310118@bbs.pixel.citadel.org> Message-ID: <15009.5031.856506.1547@anthem.wooz.org> >>>>> "P" == Patriot writes: P> Now I'm more confused than I was before, but it all seems to P> be working. At least for now. I guess all I had to do was P> complain about it. :) Love it when that happens! :) -Barry From barry@digicool.com Sat Mar 3 17:08:18 2001 From: barry@digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw) Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2001 12:08:18 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Re: ANNOUNCE Mailman 2.0.2 (important privacy patch) References: <15008.43707.726965.293836@anthem.wooz.org> Message-ID: <15009.9474.666986.317159@anthem.wooz.org> >>>>> "BAW" == Barry A Warsaw writes: BAW> If you grab the patchfile, you'll want to cd into your 2.0 BAW> source, and apply it like so: BAW> % patch -p1 < mailman-2.0.1-2.0.2.diff Two mistakes here (it was late last night :). I originally uploaded a file called `mailman-2.0.2-2.0.1.diff' to SourceForge. I've just uploaded the same file under the correct name, so either will work. Second, please use "patch -p0 < mailman-2.0.1-2.0.2.diff" from inside the source directory, otherwise you'll get lots of questions from patch. Sorry about that, -Barry From Mikael Djurfeldt Sat Mar 3 20:11:03 2001 From: Mikael Djurfeldt (Mikael Djurfeldt) Date: Sat, 03 Mar 2001 21:11:03 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Auto-rejecting spam Message-ID: Hi, I'm a list administrator using Mailman 2.0. My list is sometimes pretty heavily bombarded with spam. I can get 95% of it held by enabling holding of postings with indirect headers (requiring that the list name occurs in the To: or Cc: fields), however, since this spam filtering never hitherto has caught an innocent valid poster, I'd like Mailman to automatically reject this kind of spams without invoking me, the list administrator. So, I'm asking for a new privacy option to enable automatic rejection of postings with indirect headers and/or matching a list of regexps. (I'm not on this list, so I'd be grateful if you include me in the reply.) Best regards, /mdj From barry@digicool.com Mon Mar 5 03:41:48 2001 From: barry@digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw) Date: Sun, 4 Mar 2001 22:41:48 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] ANNOUNCE Mailman 2.1 alpha 1 Message-ID: <15011.2812.966977.334315@anthem.wooz.org> I've just uploaded a snapshot tarball of Mailman 2.1 alpha 1 to SourceForge. I'm only announcing it here because if you're not on mailman-developers, you probably shouldn't be trying to install this. This release is intended as a snapshot of several big changes to Mailman, specifically the rewritten qrunner subsystem, and internationalization support. Only motivated developers should consider using this release as I make no guarantees for stability or even installability. APIs may change. Stuff may not work. It might be a PITA to install. Still, it would be cool if people wanting i18n would pull this release down and play with it. I'm interested in any feedback or experiences you might have. I'll be at the Python conference all week so if you're coming, I'd love to talk about it, otherwise don't expect any responses until I get back. I strongly recommend you do not use this release for production systems (if you even can :). This release also contains the important bug fixes from Mailman 2.0.1 and 2.0.2. You can get the tarball from the Mailman SourceForge pages: http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=103 You will need Python 2.0 or better, and my mimelib 0.2 package or better. http://www.python.org/2.0 http://barry.wooz.org/software/Code/mimelib-0.2.tar.gz Enjoy, -Barry 2.1 alpha 1 (04-Mar-2001) - Python 2.0 or newer required. Also required is `mimelib' a new library for handling MIME documents. This will be bundled in future releases, but for now, you must download and install it (using Python's distutils) from http://barry.wooz.org/software/Code/mimelib-0.2.tar.gz You need mimelib 0.2 or better. - Redesigned qrunner subsystem. Now there are multiple message queues, and considerable flexibility in file formats for integration with external systems. The current crop of queues include: archive -- for posting messages to an archiver commands -- for incoming email commands and bounces in -- for list-destined incoming email news -- for messages outgoing to a nntp server out -- for messages outgoing to a smtp server shunt -- for messages that trigger unexpected exceptions in Mailman virgin -- for messages that are generated by Mailman cron/qrunner is now a long running script that forks off sub-runners for each of the above queues. qrunner still plays nice with cron, but it is expected to be started by init at some point in the future. Some support exists for parallel processing of messages in the queues. - Support for internationalization support merged in. Original work done by Juan Carlos Rey Anaya and Victoriano Giralt. I've tested about 90% of the web side, 50% of the email, and 50% of the command line / cron scripts. New scripts: bin/newlang, bin/rmlang - New delivery script `auto' for automatic integration with the Postfix MTA. - A bunch of new bounce detectors. Changes ported from Mailman 2.0.2 and 2.0.1: - A fix for a potential privacy exploit where a clever list administrator could gain access to user passwords. This doesn't allow them to do much more harm to the user then they normally could, but they still shouldn't have access to the passwords. - In the admindb page, don't complain when approving a subscription of someone who's already on the list (SF bug #222409 - Thomas Wouters). Also, quote for HTML the Subject: text printed for held messages, otherwise messages with e.g. "Subject: " could royally screw page formatting. - Docstring fix bin/newlist to remove mention of "immediate" argument (Thomas Wouters). - Fix for bin/update when PREFIX != VAR_PREFIX (SF bug #229794 -- Thomas Wouters). - Bug fix release, namely fixes a buglet in bin/withlist affecting the -l and -r flags; also a problem that can cause qrunner to stop processing mail after disk-full events (SourceForge bug 127199). From webmaster@isu.edu Mon Mar 5 15:06:12 2001 From: webmaster@isu.edu (Webmaster) Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2001 08:06:12 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Mailman Install to latest Message-ID: <3AA3AB64.EF052227@isu.edu> I have Mailman 2.0, would it be fine to install the patch Mailman 2.02 or do I first have to install Mailman 2.0.1 -- ############################### Webmaster webmaster@isu.edu Computing & Communications ################################ From thomas@xs4all.net Mon Mar 5 15:24:05 2001 From: thomas@xs4all.net (Thomas Wouters) Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 16:24:05 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Mailman Install to latest In-Reply-To: <3AA3AB64.EF052227@isu.edu>; from webmaster@isu.edu on Mon, Mar 05, 2001 at 08:06:12AM -0700 References: <3AA3AB64.EF052227@isu.edu> Message-ID: <20010305162405.Y9678@xs4all.nl> On Mon, Mar 05, 2001 at 08:06:12AM -0700, Webmaster wrote: > I have Mailman 2.0, would it be fine to install the patch Mailman 2.02 > or do I first have to install Mailman 2.0.1 The patch is from Mailman 2.0.1 to 2.0.2, so you need to apply the 2.0.1 patch first. -- Thomas Wouters Hi! I'm a .signature virus! copy me into your .signature file to help me spread! From teo.dehesselle@uts.edu.au Mon Mar 5 23:31:54 2001 From: teo.dehesselle@uts.edu.au (Teo de Hesselle) Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2001 10:31:54 +1100 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Incorrect Headers Message-ID: <3AA421EA.ED1917DE@uts.edu.au> It seems that for one of my lists' monthly password reminders, mailman is putting incorrect headers in, making it appear that the reminder is coming from a different list. The list whom this user is subscribed to is called 'researchnet', whereas the headers are claiming that it is coming from the 'bacc' list. This is interfering with mailman's bounce detection, and as a result the bacc admin is receiving all these messages, and is understandably not impressed. I am including the relevant sections below. Has anyone experienced this before? (or should this be addressed to the develepers' list?). Thank you for any help. >Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 05:42:46 +1100 (EST) >Message-Id: <200102281842.f1SIgkI07866@tsbunix1.itd.uts.edu.au> >Subject: listserv.uts.edu.au mailing list memberships reminder >From: mailman-owner@listserv.uts.edu.au >To: r.wiltshire@uts.edu.au >X-No-Archive: yes >X-Ack: no >Sender: bacc-admin@listserv.uts.edu.au >Errors-To: bacc-admin@listserv.uts.edu.au >X-BeenThere: bacc@listserv.uts.edu.au >X-Mailman-Version: 2.0 >Precedence: bulk > >This is a reminder, sent out once a month, about your >listserv.uts.edu.au mailing list memberships. It includes your [snip] > >If you have questions, problems, comments, etc, send them to >mailman-owner@listserv.uts.edu.au. Thanks! > >Passwords for r.wiltshire@uts.edu.au: > >List Password // URL >---- -------- >researchnet@listserv.uts.edu.au xxxxxx >http://listserv.uts.edu.au/mailman/options/researchnet/r.wiltshire%40uts= =2Eed = >u.au -- = T=E9o de Hesselle Email Administrator Information Technology Division University of Technology, Sydney From barry@digicool.com Tue Mar 6 07:01:43 2001 From: barry@digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw) Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 02:01:43 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Mailman Install to latest References: <3AA3AB64.EF052227@isu.edu> Message-ID: <15012.35671.154322.887581@anthem.wooz.org> >>>>> "W" == Webmaster writes: W> I have Mailman 2.0, would it be fine to install the patch W> Mailman 2.02 or do I first have to install Mailman 2.0.1 If you upgrade using the source tarball, it's fine to go straight to 2.0.2. If you are patching, you must apply the 2.0.1 patch before applying the 2.0.2 patch. -Barry From jcrey@uma.es Tue Mar 6 08:57:27 2001 From: jcrey@uma.es (Juan Carlos Rey Anaya) Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2001 09:57:27 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Fresh install of i18n Mailman References: <200103021427.OAA08418@inputplus.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: <3AA4A677.F8F6FB1E@uma.es> Ralph Corderoy wrote: > Have you fetched Barry's new mimelib module? Ron Jarrell wrote: > Did you follow the inns Barry posted earlier, and install mimelib? Arrg :-( Thank you very much guys, I will do my homework: download mimelib and RTFM :-) Thanks again -- = ___ / F \ [[[]]]] ( O O ) #----------------0000--(_)--0000---------------# | Juan Carlos Rey Anaya (jcrey@uma.es) | | Servicio Central de inform=E1tica | | Universidad de M=E1laga - Espa=F1a | #----------------------------------------------# From jcrey@uma.es Tue Mar 6 10:30:30 2001 From: jcrey@uma.es (Juan Carlos Rey Anaya) Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2001 11:30:30 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Fresh install of i18n Mailman References: <200103021427.OAA08418@inputplus.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: <3AA4BC46.3D3E9EDD@uma.es> I have finally installed mailman from cvs repository in my host. All i18n patches have been applied completelly. So any errors from now on should be taken into account. I have found some things are missing : - There is no template hierarchy. - There is no messages directory for catalogs - English templates have no i18n stuff. This errors are not fatal, because there are mechanisms for fallback behaviour. But, the template hierarchy and the messages directory are needed for adding supported languages. The templates must have i18n for the language selection to work. I'll work on synchronizing the message catalogs and I'll notify when they are ready for testing. Cheers -- = ___ / F \ [[[]]]] ( O O ) #----------------0000--(_)--0000---------------# | Juan Carlos Rey Anaya (jcrey@uma.es) | | Servicio Central de inform=E1tica | | Universidad de M=E1laga - Espa=F1a | #----------------------------------------------# From efernandezor@antena3tv.es Tue Mar 6 11:46:44 2001 From: efernandezor@antena3tv.es (efernandezor@antena3tv.es) Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 12:46:44 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Hi. Message-ID: From efernandezor@antena3tv.es Tue Mar 6 11:47:38 2001 From: efernandezor@antena3tv.es (efernandezor@antena3tv.es) Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 12:47:38 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] A problem with the subscriptor address Message-ID: Hi. I want to put a foot in every mails that puts: If you ever want to unsubscribe or change your options (eg, switch to or from digest mode, change your password, etc.), visit your subscription page at: http://mailmanhome/mailman/options/listname/subscriptor_address but how do I put the subscriptor address ? Thanks. From Nigel.Metheringham@InTechnology.co.uk Tue Mar 6 12:26:52 2001 From: Nigel.Metheringham@InTechnology.co.uk (Nigel Metheringham) Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2001 12:26:52 +0000 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] A problem with the subscriptor address In-Reply-To: Message from efernandezor@antena3tv.es of "Tue, 06 Mar 2001 12:47:38 +0100." Message-ID: efernandezor@antena3tv.es said: > If you ever want to unsubscribe or change your options (eg, switch to > or from digest mode, change your password, etc.), visit your > subscription page at: > http://mailmanhome/mailman/options/listname/subscriptor_address > but how do I put the subscriptor address ? You cannot do this with Mailman at present. If you think about it you are making each message unique per recipient, which is not what a mailing list manager does - it generally wants to send messages out in large blocks to multiple recipients. Nigel. -- [ Nigel Metheringham Nigel.Metheringham@InTechnology.co.uk ] [ Phone: +44 1423 850000 Fax +44 1423 858866 ] [ - Comments in this message are my own and not ITO opinion/policy - ] From Kurt Seifried" Message-ID: <00f001c0a66f$db4cd480$3200030a@seifried.org> Have you guys looked at GnuPG/X.509 encryption, i.e. someone sends a message to the list, and instead of just blonking it out to all members it checks a table for email address and GnuPG key/X.509 cert, and if found encrypts the email to that user with their key. It would be a nice optional feature. Kurt Seifried, seifried@securityportal.com Securityportal - your focal point for security on the 'net From thomas@xs4all.net Wed Mar 7 01:38:11 2001 From: thomas@xs4all.net (Thomas Wouters) Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 02:38:11 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Fresh install of i18n Mailman In-Reply-To: <3AA4BC46.3D3E9EDD@uma.es>; from jcrey@uma.es on Tue, Mar 06, 2001 at 11:30:30AM +0100 References: <200103021427.OAA08418@inputplus.demon.co.uk> <3AA4BC46.3D3E9EDD@uma.es> Message-ID: <20010307023811.A404@xs4all.nl> On Tue, Mar 06, 2001 at 11:30:30AM +0100, Juan Carlos Rey Anaya wrote: > I have finally installed mailman from cvs repository in my host. > All i18n patches have been applied completelly. So any errors from now > on should be taken into account. > I have found some things are missing : Note that this is an alpha in the truest form. I already heckled Barry about some obvious bugs (ones I'm not going to fix myself :) but since we're both at the Python conference, they won't be fixed for a few days at least. (Besides, I'm having a hard time figuring out what Barry wanted to do in the first place :) One suggestion: if you care about your mailbox, *do not run qrunner from cron*. It will generate an error-email every minute. Not Fun :-) -- Thomas Wouters Hi! I'm a .signature virus! copy me into your .signature file to help me spread! From wari@celestix.com Wed Mar 7 05:40:43 2001 From: wari@celestix.com (Wari Wahab) Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2001 13:40:43 +0800 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Making mailman RPM friendly Message-ID: <3AA5C9DA.BAE61BF2@celestix.com> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------3166665E8E810793ED1C2E38 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi there, tried to build an RPM of mailman and I found that it's not easy to do so with a plain vannila spec file.. Here I include a patch that allows easy creation of RPMs which you might want to include it in you next release, but then again, you might not coz I believe it's an ugly hack ;) and it's also not fhs compliant.. --------------3166665E8E810793ED1C2E38 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; name="mailman-rpm.diff" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline; filename="mailman-rpm.diff" diff -u -r mailman-2.0/Mailman/Archiver/Makefile.in mailman-2.0rc3/Mailman/Archiver/Makefile.in --- mailman-2.0/Mailman/Archiver/Makefile.in Tue Mar 21 14:25:10 2000 +++ mailman-2.0rc3/Mailman/Archiver/Makefile.in Fri Nov 24 16:40:12 2000 @@ -59,7 +59,7 @@ install: for f in $(MODULES); \ do \ - $(INSTALL) -m $(FILEMODE) $$f $(PACKAGEDIR); \ + $(INSTALL) -m $(FILEMODE) $$f $(DESTDIR)$(PACKAGEDIR); \ done finish: diff -u -r mailman-2.0/Mailman/Bouncers/Makefile.in mailman-2.0rc3/Mailman/Bouncers/Makefile.in --- mailman-2.0/Mailman/Bouncers/Makefile.in Tue Mar 21 14:25:35 2000 +++ mailman-2.0rc3/Mailman/Bouncers/Makefile.in Fri Nov 24 16:41:45 2000 @@ -57,7 +57,7 @@ install: for f in $(MODULES); \ do \ - $(INSTALL) -m $(FILEMODE) $$f $(PACKAGEDIR); \ + $(INSTALL) -m $(FILEMODE) $$f $(DESTDIR)$(PACKAGEDIR); \ done finish: diff -u -r mailman-2.0/Mailman/Cgi/Makefile.in mailman-2.0rc3/Mailman/Cgi/Makefile.in --- mailman-2.0/Mailman/Cgi/Makefile.in Tue Mar 21 14:25:43 2000 +++ mailman-2.0rc3/Mailman/Cgi/Makefile.in Fri Nov 24 16:42:19 2000 @@ -59,7 +59,7 @@ install: for f in $(CGI_MODULES); \ do \ - $(INSTALL) -m $(FILEMODE) $$f $(CGIDIR); \ + $(INSTALL) -m $(FILEMODE) $$f $(DESTDIR)$(CGIDIR); \ done finish: diff -u -r mailman-2.0/Mailman/Handlers/Makefile.in mailman-2.0rc3/Mailman/Handlers/Makefile.in --- mailman-2.0/Mailman/Handlers/Makefile.in Tue Mar 21 14:25:51 2000 +++ mailman-2.0rc3/Mailman/Handlers/Makefile.in Fri Nov 24 16:42:40 2000 @@ -57,7 +57,7 @@ install: for f in $(MODULES); \ do \ - $(INSTALL) -m $(FILEMODE) $$f $(PACKAGEDIR); \ + $(INSTALL) -m $(FILEMODE) $$f $(DESTDIR)$(PACKAGEDIR); \ done finish: diff -u -r mailman-2.0/Mailman/Logging/Makefile.in mailman-2.0rc3/Mailman/Logging/Makefile.in --- mailman-2.0/Mailman/Logging/Makefile.in Sat Jun 3 06:13:10 2000 +++ mailman-2.0rc3/Mailman/Logging/Makefile.in Fri Nov 24 16:42:53 2000 @@ -57,7 +57,7 @@ install: for f in $(MODULES); \ do \ - $(INSTALL) -m $(FILEMODE) $$f $(PACKAGEDIR); \ + $(INSTALL) -m $(FILEMODE) $$f $(DESTDIR)$(PACKAGEDIR); \ done finish: diff -u -r mailman-2.0/Mailman/Makefile.in mailman-2.0rc3/Mailman/Makefile.in --- mailman-2.0/Mailman/Makefile.in Tue Mar 21 14:24:59 2000 +++ mailman-2.0rc3/Mailman/Makefile.in Fri Nov 24 16:41:25 2000 @@ -64,12 +64,12 @@ install-here: for f in $(MODULES); \ do \ - $(INSTALL) -m $(FILEMODE) $$f $(PACKAGEDIR); \ + $(INSTALL) -m $(FILEMODE) $$f $(DESTDIR)$(PACKAGEDIR); \ done - $(INSTALL) -m $(FILEMODE) mm_cfg.py.dist $(PACKAGEDIR) - if [ ! -f $(PACKAGEDIR)/mm_cfg.py ]; \ + $(INSTALL) -m $(FILEMODE) mm_cfg.py.dist $(DESTDIR)$(PACKAGEDIR) + if [ ! -f $(DESTDIR)$(PACKAGEDIR)/mm_cfg.py ]; \ then \ - $(INSTALL) -m $(FILEMODE) mm_cfg.py.dist $(PACKAGEDIR)/mm_cfg.py; \ + $(INSTALL) -m $(FILEMODE) mm_cfg.py.dist $(DESTDIR)$(PACKAGEDIR)/mm_cfg.py; \ fi install: install-here diff -u -r mailman-2.0/Mailman/pythonlib/Makefile.in mailman-2.0rc3/Mailman/pythonlib/Makefile.in --- mailman-2.0/Mailman/pythonlib/Makefile.in Tue Mar 21 14:26:05 2000 +++ mailman-2.0rc3/Mailman/pythonlib/Makefile.in Fri Nov 24 16:43:05 2000 @@ -58,7 +58,7 @@ install: for f in $(MODULES); \ do \ - $(INSTALL) -m $(FILEMODE) $$f $(PACKAGEDIR); \ + $(INSTALL) -m $(FILEMODE) $$f $(DESTDIR)$(PACKAGEDIR); \ done finish: diff -u -r mailman-2.0/Makefile.in mailman-2.0rc3/Makefile.in --- mailman-2.0/Makefile.in Fri Sep 22 16:06:19 2000 +++ mailman-2.0rc3/Makefile.in Fri Nov 24 17:01:48 2000 @@ -82,7 +82,7 @@ @echo "Creating architecture independent directories..." @for d in $(VAR_DIRS); \ do \ - dir=$(var_prefix)/$$d; \ + dir=$(DESTDIR)$(var_prefix)/$$d; \ if test ! -d $$dir; then \ echo "Creating directory hierarchy $$dir"; \ ./mkinstalldirs $$dir; \ @@ -91,10 +91,10 @@ else true; \ fi; \ done - chmod o-r $(var_prefix)/archives/private + chmod o-r $(DESTDIR)$(var_prefix)/archives/private @for d in $(ARCH_INDEP_DIRS); \ do \ - dir=$(prefix)/$$d; \ + dir=$(DESTDIR)$(prefix)/$$d; \ if test ! -d $$dir; then \ echo "Creating directory hierarchy $$dir"; \ ./mkinstalldirs $$dir; \ @@ -106,7 +106,7 @@ @echo "Creating architecture dependent directories..." @for d in $(ARCH_DEP_DIRS); \ do \ - dir=$(exec_prefix)/$$d; \ + dir=$(DESTDIR)$(exec_prefix)/$$d; \ if test ! -d $$dir; then \ echo "Creating directory hierarchy $$dir"; \ ./mkinstalldirs $$dir; \ @@ -119,7 +119,7 @@ do \ (cd $$d; $(MAKE) install); \ done - $(PYTHON) -c 'from compileall import *; compile_dir("$(prefix)/Mailman")' + $(PYTHON) -c 'from compileall import *; compile_dir("$(DESTDIR)$(prefix)/Mailman")' update: @(cd $(prefix) ; bin/update) | tee ./update.log diff -u -r mailman-2.0/bin/Makefile.in mailman-2.0rc3/bin/Makefile.in --- mailman-2.0/bin/Makefile.in Fri May 5 06:51:31 2000 +++ mailman-2.0rc3/bin/Makefile.in Fri Nov 24 16:45:36 2000 @@ -62,7 +62,7 @@ install: for f in $(SCRIPTS); \ do \ - $(INSTALL) -m $(EXEMODE) $$f $(SCRIPTSDIR); \ + $(INSTALL) -m $(EXEMODE) $$f $(DESTDIR)$(SCRIPTSDIR); \ done finish: diff -u -r mailman-2.0/cron/Makefile.in mailman-2.0rc3/cron/Makefile.in --- mailman-2.0/cron/Makefile.in Wed Nov 1 10:32:05 2000 +++ mailman-2.0rc3/cron/Makefile.in Fri Nov 24 16:45:57 2000 @@ -59,7 +59,7 @@ install: for f in $(SCRIPTS); \ do \ - $(INSTALL) -m $(FILEMODE) $$f $(CRONDIR); \ + $(INSTALL) -m $(FILEMODE) $$f $(DESTDIR)$(CRONDIR); \ done finish: diff -u -r mailman-2.0/filters/Makefile.in mailman-2.0rc3/filters/Makefile.in --- mailman-2.0/filters/Makefile.in Fri Sep 22 16:00:01 2000 +++ mailman-2.0rc3/filters/Makefile.in Fri Nov 24 16:46:18 2000 @@ -59,7 +59,7 @@ install: for f in $(FILTERS); \ do \ - $(INSTALL) -m $(FILEMODE) $$f $(FILTERSDIR); \ + $(INSTALL) -m $(FILEMODE) $$f $(DESTDIR)$(FILTERSDIR); \ done finish: diff -u -r mailman-2.0/misc/Makefile.in mailman-2.0rc3/misc/Makefile.in --- mailman-2.0/misc/Makefile.in Fri Sep 22 15:58:52 2000 +++ mailman-2.0rc3/misc/Makefile.in Fri Nov 24 16:47:20 2000 @@ -61,14 +61,14 @@ all: install: - $(INSTALL) -m $(FILEMODE) Cookie.py $(PACKAGEDIR) - $(INSTALL) -m $(FILEMODE) $(ICONS) $(ICONDIR) + $(INSTALL) -m $(FILEMODE) Cookie.py $(DESTDIR)$(PACKAGEDIR) + $(INSTALL) -m $(FILEMODE) $(ICONS) $(DESTDIR)$(ICONDIR) for d in $(PATHSDIRS); \ do \ - dir=$(prefix)/$$d; \ + dir=$(DESTDIR)$(prefix)/$$d; \ $(INSTALL) -m $(FILEMODE) paths.py $$dir; \ done - $(INSTALL) -m $(DATAMODE) pending_subscriptions.db $(DATADIR) + $(INSTALL) -m $(DATAMODE) pending_subscriptions.db $(DESTDIR)$(DATADIR) finish: diff -u -r mailman-2.0/scripts/Makefile.in mailman-2.0rc3/scripts/Makefile.in --- mailman-2.0/scripts/Makefile.in Tue Mar 21 14:26:37 2000 +++ mailman-2.0rc3/scripts/Makefile.in Fri Nov 24 16:47:35 2000 @@ -58,7 +58,7 @@ install: for f in $(SCRIPTS); \ do \ - $(INSTALL) -m $(FILEMODE) $$f $(SCRIPTSDIR); \ + $(INSTALL) -m $(FILEMODE) $$f $(DESTDIR)$(SCRIPTSDIR); \ done finish: diff -u -r mailman-2.0/src/Makefile.in mailman-2.0rc3/src/Makefile.in --- mailman-2.0/src/Makefile.in Sun Aug 6 13:03:00 2000 +++ mailman-2.0rc3/src/Makefile.in Fri Nov 24 16:49:16 2000 @@ -111,18 +111,18 @@ install: all for f in $(CGI_PROGS); \ do \ - exe=$(CGIDIR)/$$f$(CGIEXT); \ + exe=$(DESTDIR)$(CGIDIR)/$$f$(CGIEXT); \ $(INSTALL_PROGRAM) $$f $$exe; \ chmod g+s $$exe; \ done for f in $(MAIL_PROGS); \ do \ - $(INSTALL_PROGRAM) $$f $(MAILDIR); \ - chmod g+s $(MAILDIR)/$$f; \ + $(INSTALL_PROGRAM) $$f $(DESTDIR)$(MAILDIR); \ + chmod g+s $(DESTDIR)$(MAILDIR)/$$f; \ done # @for f in $(ALIAS_PROGS); \ # do \ -# $(INSTALL_PROGRAM) $$f $(bindir) ; \ +# $(INSTALL_PROGRAM) $$f $(DESTDIR)$(bindir) ; \ # done finish: diff -u -r mailman-2.0/templates/Makefile.in mailman-2.0rc3/templates/Makefile.in --- mailman-2.0/templates/Makefile.in Tue Mar 21 14:26:46 2000 +++ mailman-2.0rc3/templates/Makefile.in Fri Nov 24 16:49:53 2000 @@ -59,8 +59,8 @@ install: for f in $(TEMPLATES); \ do \ - mv -f $(TEMPLATEDIR)/$$f $(TEMPLATEDIR)/$$f.prev || $(TRUE); \ - $(INSTALL) -m $(FILEMODE) $$f $(TEMPLATEDIR); \ + mv -f $(DESTDIR)$(TEMPLATEDIR)/$$f $(DESTDIR)$(TEMPLATEDIR)/$$f.prev || $(TRUE); \ + $(INSTALL) -m $(FILEMODE) $$f $(DESTDIR)$(TEMPLATEDIR); \ done finish: --------------3166665E8E810793ED1C2E38 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; name="mailman.spec" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline; filename="mailman.spec" Summary: The GNU Mailing List Management System Name: mailman Version: 2.0.2 Release: 1 Copyright: GPL Group: System Environment/Mailing List Managers Source: http://www.list.org/mailman-2.0.2.tgz URL: http://www.list.org Patch0: mailman-rpm.diff BuildRoot: /var/tmp/%{name}-root Packager: Wari Wahab Requires: python %description Mailman is software to help manage electronic mail discussion lists, much like Majordomo or Smartmail. Mailman gives each mailing list a unique web page and allows users to subscribe, unsubscribe, and change their account options over the web. Even the list manager can administer his or her list entirely via the web. Mailman has most of the features that people want in a mailing list management system, including built-in archiving, mail-to-news gateways, spam filters, bounce detection, digest delivery, and so on. %prep %setup -q %patch0 -p1 find . -type d -exec chmod 755 {} \; %build /usr/sbin/groupadd -g 88 mailman /usr/sbin/useradd -d /var/mailman -g mailman -u 88 mailman chgrp mailman /var/mailman chmod a+rx,g+ws /var/mailman export CFLAGS="$RPM_OPT_FLAGS"; CFLAGS="$RPM_OPT_FLAGS" ./configure --prefix=/var/mailman --with-mail-gid=mailman make CFLAGS="$RPM_OPT_FLAGS" %install rm -rf $RPM_BUILD_ROOT mkdir -p $RPM_BUILD_ROOT/var/mailman chgrp mailman $RPM_BUILD_ROOT/var/mailman chmod a+rx,g+ws $RPM_BUILD_ROOT/var/mailman make DESTDIR=$RPM_BUILD_ROOT install %pre /usr/sbin/groupadd -g 88 mailman /usr/sbin/useradd -d /var/mailman -g mailman -u 88 mailman %post su mailman -c '/usr/bin/crontab /var/mailman/cron/crontab.in' %clean rm -rf $RPM_BUILD_ROOT /usr/sbin/userdel mailman %files %dir /var/mailman /var/mailman/* %changelog * Wed Mar 07 2001 Wari Wahab - Modified for the latest mailman 2.0.2 * Wed Dec 20 2000 Wari Wahab - Initial RPM of mailman --------------3166665E8E810793ED1C2E38-- From midnight@the-oasis.net Wed Mar 7 14:30:26 2001 From: midnight@the-oasis.net (Phil Barnett) Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 09:30:26 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Any ideas what happened here? Message-ID: <3AA5FFB2.29000.B99A21D@localhost> I tracked down process 25798 and it was a mailman qrunner process... Mar 6 03:41:39 taz2 kernel: Unable to handle kernel paging request at virtual address 0000a014 Mar 6 03:41:39 taz2 kernel: current->tss.cr3 = 1b247000, %cr3 = 1b247000 Mar 6 03:41:39 taz2 kernel: *pde = 00000000 Mar 6 03:41:39 taz2 kernel: Oops: 0000 Mar 6 03:41:39 taz2 kernel: CPU: 0 Mar 6 03:41:39 taz2 kernel: EIP: 0010:[try_to_free_buffers+18/132] Mar 6 03:41:39 taz2 kernel: EFLAGS: 00010202 Mar 6 03:41:39 taz2 kernel: eax: 0000a000 ebx: c06ce720 ecx: 00000013 edx: 0003efe0 Mar 6 03:41:39 taz2 kernel: esi: 0000a000 edi: 0000a000 ebp: c06ce720 esp: d5c11ec0 Mar 6 03:41:39 taz2 kernel: ds: 0018 es: 0018 ss: 0018 Mar 6 03:41:39 taz2 kernel: Process python (pid: 25798, process nr: 167, stackpage=d5c11000) Mar 6 03:41:39 taz2 kernel: Stack: 00000013 00000000 c011d7ce c06ce720 00000002 00000006 00000013 c0122542 Mar 6 03:41:39 taz2 kernel: 00000006 00000013 00000001 00000013 00000013 c0122670 00000013 d5c10000 Mar 6 03:41:39 taz2 kernel: 00000000 c0122ec0 00000013 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 c011d49b Mar 6 03:41:39 taz2 kernel: Call Trace: [shrink_mmap+238/324] [do_try_to_free_pages+38/120] [try_to_free_pages+40/52] [ __get_free_pages+180/1020] [merge_segments+327/364] [do_generic_file_read+1136/1500] [generic_file_read+99/124] Mar 6 03:41:39 taz2 kernel: [file_read_actor+0/80] [sys_read+174/196] [system_call+52/56] Mar 6 03:41:39 taz2 kernel: Code: 8b 76 14 83 78 20 00 75 06 f6 40 18 46 74 0f 6a 00 e8 6c 01 Mar 6 03:42:09 taz2 proftpd[25807]: harbour-project.org (195.151.104.115[195.151.104.115]) - FTP session closed. Mar 7 09:53:29 taz2 syslogd 1.3-3: restart. -- Phil Barnett mailto:midnight@the-oasis.net WWW http://www.the-oasis.net/ FTP Site ftp://ftp.the-oasis.net From chris@greatbridge.com Wed Mar 7 15:17:54 2001 From: chris@greatbridge.com (Chris Ryan) Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2001 10:17:54 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Mailman + DB Message-ID: <3AA65122.3E9D3893@greatbridge.com> A week or so ago I sent a mail, entitled 'Mailman + PostgeSQL'. Since I have been doing my research on Mailman and getting an idea for how things work in a big picture kind of way. From the many suggestions of people who responded and of my own OOP background making the changes to have Mailman access a data source in an abstracted manner would seem to be the best solution. This email is directed to those who either develop Mailman or have interest in the changes I'm proposing. My motives for making these changes are to allow Mailman to access data from a database, PostgreSQL in my case. This is step one for me and my development needs. With the desire to contribute said changes back to the project in a meaningful way. With that in mind I'm suggesting the development of a standard data containment method that would encapsulate the data. Then data source containers can be developed and deployed for any storage method that some could use such as PostgreSQL, ZopeDB, flat file, etc. I will be working on this definition, hopefully with your input, and develop the first instance using the current storage method. Once that has been done and Mailman modified to use it then future data sources should be easy to add. Outlining the basic encapsulation I will use names that are easy to recognize but will not necessarily be the names used. The encapsulation will actually be a collection of classes so as to make the flow easier to maintain and understand. --------- class List: # does the initialization __init__(self,listname): # these two are for compatibility of the current flat file method # and can be left to perform no action for those sources that don't # need them Load(self): Save(self): # one of each for each attribute # most of these will return the values that are expected # as Mailman is today get(self): set(self,value): # Members/DigestMembers will be handled a little differently # as to create a more uniform and clean interface as they # will return a Members class getMembers(self): # Other data will most likely be encapsulated as Members # such as postings_responses, request_responses and # admin_responses, bounce_info and any other attributes # that are 'complex' class Members: # in my current thinking with the encapsulation it would # make sense to place both members and digest_members # within this one class providing methods to break out # each one as need. # each one of these would return the email keys (lc value of address) # the email key values hence forth will be referred to as userid # ??? why does Mailman care about case of the email addresses ??? getMembers(self): # return a list of _all_ list members getRegularMembers(self): # return a list of all regular list members getDigestMembers(self): # return a list of all digest members # other methods of use getMemberAddress(self,userid): # return the case preserved email of userid getMemberOption(self,userid,option): # returns 0,1 false,true setMemberOption(self,userid,option,state): # set/unset the option getMemberPassword(self,userid): # Returns the users password . . . # and so on # there would be respective classes for the other 'complex' attributes as stated above # in List ----------- The classes with the definition and implementations would could be defined under as such: Mailman/datasources/flatfile.py, Mailman/datasources/postgresql.py and then using a config option the respective file could be loaded with each of the classes into the namespace allowing easy installation of new datasources for use. This doesn't really handle the conversion from one source to another but makes it easy for users to select the kind of source they would like to use. I believe this to be a solid method for adding the functionality desired. I would like to know if people think that this is a good idea or not. Have I missed anything in my concept? Chris Ryan chris@greatbridge.com From barry@digicool.com Wed Mar 7 16:28:07 2001 From: barry@digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw) Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 11:28:07 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Mailman + DB References: <3AA65122.3E9D3893@greatbridge.com> Message-ID: <15014.24983.366598.455341@anthem.wooz.org> i don't have time to comment in detail, and just skimmed your message. i'll respond again after ipc9, but just to answer one question: mailman preserves the case of email address, but it does case insensitive comparison of addrs as keys. the policy is that addrs that differ only by case are considered the same user -- /but/ it needs the case preserved addr to use as the recipient of the message. that's because some mta -- believe it or not -- do care about the case of the recip addr. that may or may not make sense -- i'm still going to sleep on east coast time, but waking up on west coast time. not conducive to lucid thought no matter how many gallons of coffee is consumed. :) -barry From thomas@xs4all.net Wed Mar 7 18:33:39 2001 From: thomas@xs4all.net (Thomas Wouters) Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 19:33:39 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Any ideas what happened here? In-Reply-To: <3AA5FFB2.29000.B99A21D@localhost>; from midnight@the-oasis.net on Wed, Mar 07, 2001 at 09:30:26AM -0500 References: <3AA5FFB2.29000.B99A21D@localhost> Message-ID: <20010307193339.B404@xs4all.nl> On Wed, Mar 07, 2001 at 09:30:26AM -0500, Phil Barnett wrote: > I tracked down process 25798 and it was a mailman qrunner > process... qrunner is a simple python process. It does nothing peculiar at all. Python also does nothing peculiar, it's just a userspace program. It looks like you have a kernel bug or hardware problem on your hands. > Mar 6 03:41:39 taz2 kernel: Unable to handle kernel paging > request at virtual address 0000a014 > Mar 6 03:41:39 taz2 kernel: current->tss.cr3 = 1b247000, %cr3 = > 1b247000 > Mar 6 03:41:39 taz2 kernel: *pde = 00000000 > Mar 6 03:41:39 taz2 kernel: Oops: 0000 > Mar 6 03:41:39 taz2 kernel: CPU: 0 > Mar 6 03:41:39 taz2 kernel: EIP: > 0010:[try_to_free_buffers+18/132] > Mar 6 03:41:39 taz2 kernel: EFLAGS: 00010202 > Mar 6 03:41:39 taz2 kernel: eax: 0000a000 ebx: c06ce720 ecx: > 00000013 edx: 0003efe0 > Mar 6 03:41:39 taz2 kernel: esi: 0000a000 edi: 0000a000 ebp: > c06ce720 esp: d5c11ec0 > Mar 6 03:41:39 taz2 kernel: ds: 0018 es: 0018 ss: 0018 > Mar 6 03:41:39 taz2 kernel: Process python (pid: 25798, process > nr: 167, stackpage=d5c11000) > Mar 6 03:41:39 taz2 kernel: Stack: 00000013 00000000 c011d7ce > c06ce720 00000002 00000006 00000013 c0122542 > Mar 6 03:41:39 taz2 kernel: 00000006 00000013 00000001 > 00000013 00000013 c0122670 00000013 d5c10000 > Mar 6 03:41:39 taz2 kernel: 00000000 c0122ec0 00000013 > 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 c011d49b > Mar 6 03:41:39 taz2 kernel: Call Trace: [shrink_mmap+238/324] > [do_try_to_free_pages+38/120] [try_to_free_pages+40/52] [ > __get_free_pages+180/1020] [merge_segments+327/364] > [do_generic_file_read+1136/1500] [generic_file_read+99/124] > Mar 6 03:41:39 taz2 kernel: [file_read_actor+0/80] > [sys_read+174/196] [system_call+52/56] > Mar 6 03:41:39 taz2 kernel: Code: 8b 76 14 83 78 20 00 75 06 f6 > 40 18 46 74 0f 6a 00 e8 6c 01 > Mar 6 03:42:09 taz2 proftpd[25807]: harbour-project.org > (195.151.104.115[195.151.104.115]) - FTP session closed. > Mar 7 09:53:29 taz2 syslogd 1.3-3: restart. > > > > -- > Phil Barnett mailto:midnight@the-oasis.net > WWW http://www.the-oasis.net/ > FTP Site ftp://ftp.the-oasis.net > > _______________________________________________ > Mailman-Developers mailing list > Mailman-Developers@python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers -- Thomas Wouters Hi! I'm a .signature virus! copy me into your .signature file to help me spread! From thomas@xs4all.net Wed Mar 7 18:38:15 2001 From: thomas@xs4all.net (Thomas Wouters) Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 19:38:15 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Feature request In-Reply-To: <00f001c0a66f$db4cd480$3200030a@seifried.org>; from seifried@securityportal.com on Tue, Mar 06, 2001 at 12:01:30PM -0700 References: <00f001c0a66f$db4cd480$3200030a@seifried.org> Message-ID: <20010307193815.C404@xs4all.nl> On Tue, Mar 06, 2001 at 12:01:30PM -0700, Kurt Seifried wrote: > Have you guys looked at GnuPG/X.509 encryption, i.e. someone sends a > message to the list, and instead of just blonking it out to all members it > checks a table for email address and GnuPG key/X.509 cert, and if found > encrypts the email to that user with their key. It would be a nice > optional feature. There has been some traffic on the idea before, yes. The main problem is that someone has to implement it :) The mailman development team basically consists of Barry, who also has two other fulltime jobs. I'm pretty certain Barry would accept a patch that implemented it, and if not, I'd rewrite it to suit his wishes and slip it in when he's not looking :) Of course, I also have two other fulltime jobs ;P -- Thomas Wouters Hi! I'm a .signature virus! copy me into your .signature file to help me spread! From mentor@alb-net.com Wed Mar 7 22:11:41 2001 From: mentor@alb-net.com (Mentor Cana) Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 17:11:41 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Mailman-Developers] MM 2.0.2: AttributeError: MMAlreadyMember Message-ID: Here is the error I get when attempting to approve subscription Request on "confirm+approval" list. thanks, Mentor --- Mar 07 17:07:00 2001 admin(15231): @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ admin(15231): [----- Mailman Version: 2.0.2 -----] admin(15231): [----- Traceback ------] admin(15231): Traceback (most recent call last): admin(15231): File "/opt/home/mailman/scripts/driver", line 96, in run_main admin(15231): main() admin(15231): File "/opt/home/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/admindb.py", line 88, in main admin(15231): HandleRequests(mlist, doc, cgidata) admin(15231): File "/opt/home/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/admindb.py", line 271, in HandleRequests admin(15231): preserve, forward, forwardaddr) admin(15231): File "/opt/home/mailman/Mailman/ListAdmin.py", line 133, in HandleRequest admin(15231): status = self.__handlesubscription(data, value, comment) admin(15231): File "/opt/home/mailman/Mailman/ListAdmin.py", line 331, in __handlesubscription admin(15231): except Errors.MMAlreadyMember: admin(15231): AttributeError: MMAlreadyMember .... From thomas@xs4all.net Wed Mar 7 22:52:36 2001 From: thomas@xs4all.net (Thomas Wouters) Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 23:52:36 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] MM 2.0.2: AttributeError: MMAlreadyMember In-Reply-To: ; from mentor@alb-net.com on Wed, Mar 07, 2001 at 05:11:41PM -0500 References: Message-ID: <20010307235236.F404@xs4all.nl> On Wed, Mar 07, 2001 at 05:11:41PM -0500, Mentor Cana wrote: > Here is the error I get when attempting to approve subscription Request on > "confirm+approval" list. > admin(15231): File "/opt/home/mailman/Mailman/ListAdmin.py", line 331, in __handlesubscription > admin(15231): except Errors.MMAlreadyMember: > admin(15231): AttributeError: MMAlreadyMember > .... Oh, fscking cramp. I hope Barry doesn't see this message until after he's on the plane back home, or at least after he bought me that beer he promised :-) I guess Barry will have to bring out a 2.0.3, sigh. My typo. You can fix it manually by changing line 331 of ListAdmin.py to 'except Errors.MMAlreadyAMember:'. Note the extra 'A' between 'Already' and 'Member'. It's fixed in the current CVS tree as well as the 2.0 branch. -- Thomas Wouters Hi! I'm a .signature virus! copy me into your .signature file to help me spread! From steffen@wflin3.asta.uni-wuppertal.de Thu Mar 8 00:19:05 2001 From: steffen@wflin3.asta.uni-wuppertal.de (Steffen Bardolatzi) Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 01:19:05 +0100 (CET) Subject: [Mailman-Developers] best wy to upgrade from Mailman 2.0b6 to 2.02? Message-ID: There are some archiv related issues - unfortunatley not archived for some reasons - with upgrading from V2.0b6 to V2.0x final [last attempt with 2.01]. First of all what=B4s running: - Linux 2.2.x - Python 1.52 (1.6 or 2.0 compiled additionally but did not work with currently passwords i.e. I was not able to login as mailman-owner nor listowner - using a make install) - there are running some inportant liste --> I can=B4t afford *any* loss of e-mails and archived messages [for this reason I always make a backup] - qmail as MTA I. Upgrading to 2.0 with mailman 2.0.x --> see above, mail delivery seems t= o work: - passwords are not recognized, it is no way to reset them to default values --> how does it is possible to upgrade to Python 2.0 *without* leaving *all* passwords? =3D=3D> I=B4ll stick with Mailman 2.0x for I have to keep the current list = + datebases, if there was a password converter there was not problem =3D=3D> sticking with Python 1.52 for now --> II II. Upgrade to mailman 2.0x: - first make install, then - passwords still work - mail delivery is fine - archives *only* work with *some* already configured lists, e.g. "testliste" does *not* archive - newly created lists does not archive *at all* - I couldn=B4t figure out wrongly set permissions So what might be the best way to upgrade to 2.02 final with using the old datebase and passwords without any loss of data? Thanks in advance, =09=09Steffen From midnight@the-oasis.net Thu Mar 8 05:30:59 2001 From: midnight@the-oasis.net (Phil Barnett) Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 00:30:59 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Any ideas what happened here? In-Reply-To: <20010307193339.B404@xs4all.nl> References: <3AA5FFB2.29000.B99A21D@localhost>; from midnight@the-oasis.net on Wed, Mar 07, 2001 at 09:30:26AM -0500 Message-ID: <3AA6D2C3.5355.ED21CF9@localhost> On 7 Mar 2001, at 19:33, Thomas Wouters wrote: > On Wed, Mar 07, 2001 at 09:30:26AM -0500, Phil Barnett wrote: > > > I tracked down process 25798 and it was a mailman qrunner > > process... > > qrunner is a simple python process. It does nothing peculiar at all. Python > also does nothing peculiar, it's just a userspace program. It looks like you > have a kernel bug or hardware problem on your hands. The machine had an uptime of 146 days at that point, so we'll see how it goes. It's all relatively new hardware. A reboot and off it went... -- Phil Barnett mailto:midnight@the-oasis.net WWW http://www.the-oasis.net/ FTP Site ftp://ftp.the-oasis.net From steffen@wflin3.asta.uni-wuppertal.de Thu Mar 8 09:41:30 2001 From: steffen@wflin3.asta.uni-wuppertal.de (Steffen Bardolatzi) Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 10:41:30 +0100 (CET) Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Idea as for the non-arching issue Message-ID: Unfortunately, I can=B4t prove it but this might be the reason for non-archiving issues: For the last times I posted with "steffen@asta.uni-wuppertal.de" which is basically the same as "steffen@wflin3.asta.uni-wuppertal.de" with one difference: - I am subscribed with "steffen@wflin3.asta.uni-wuppertal.de" - asta.uni-wuppertal.de is allowed, too - there is no DNS-entry for asta.uni-wuppertal.de (we can't change it) Apart from these details the recent message with "...wflin3..." in it *has* been archived. If the archiving code has not been changed from 2.01 up to 2.02: does it is possible that *non*-Subscribers are not archived (different in Beta 6)? If this was true there was an important issue to us because we *have to* archive non-members messages archiving an external Mailinglist for internal use (filtering Bcc messages). Any ideas about that?! Thanks in advance, =09=09Steffen From jason-dated-a0d01c8ed1915165@mastaler.com Thu Mar 8 20:37:06 2001 From: jason-dated-a0d01c8ed1915165@mastaler.com (Jason R. Mastaler) Date: 8 Mar 2001 20:37:06 -0000 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] mailman and qmail-inject Message-ID: <20010308203706.31364.qmail@mid.mastaler.com> Greetings, I've been looking to move my lists over to Mailman, but I run qmail and understand there are some "issues" with this combination. If I'm not mistaken, mailman injects outgoing messages via SMTP on localhost. This method is problematic on qmail systems, because it circumvents `qmail-inject' which is responsible for adding appropriate information to the message header before it gets sent to the outgoing queue. The end result is that Mailman messages sent from a qmail server lack certain important headers such as "Date:" and "Message-ID:". Has anyone addressed or made plans to address this issue? -- ____________________________________________________________ My 'jason-dated-*' e-mail address is valid, but expirable. It will expire in 7 day(s) from the date of this message. For more information see . ____________________________________________________________ From jra@baylink.com Thu Mar 8 21:43:29 2001 From: jra@baylink.com (Jay R. Ashworth) Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 16:43:29 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Using Mailman as a broadcast list manager In-Reply-To: ; from mailman-developers-request@python.org on Thu, Mar 08, 2001 at 04:41:15PM -0500 References: Message-ID: <20010308164329.25508@scfn.thpl.lib.fl.us> That's what I'm doing for a client, and before you ask, yes, it's opt-in, and no, you can't have the addresses. :-) My problem is that I haven't had nearly enough time (or warning) on the fact that they only want about 5,000 mails to go out per day to their 55,000+ name list... and I'm not sure which module to put the throttle into. It *looks* like it ought to go in SMTPdirect, but I'm worried about locking issues. And, of course, I'd want it to be a list parameter, though that's not essential for this particular site.Is there anyone on the list who's already done this, or failing that, has a snap answer for this one? I'm headed off to search the archives... but I do have multiple windows on my laptop. :-) Damned fine looking system, BTW: only one 'bug' I've seen so far: The doco says the site password will work anywhere... but it doesn't seem to work as the "old password" for changing a list password, and I can't find anywhere *else* to do that either. Am I missing something, or is that really a bug? I'm gonna check Jitterbug for that, too, during my search. Cheers, -- jra -- Jay R. Ashworth jra@baylink.com Member of the Technical Staff Baylink The Suncoast Freenet The Things I Think Tampa Bay, Florida http://baylink.pitas.com +1 727 804 5015 From ricardo@rixhq.nu Mon Mar 12 00:42:57 2001 From: ricardo@rixhq.nu (Ricardo Kustner) Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 01:42:57 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Mailman + DB In-Reply-To: <3AA65122.3E9D3893@greatbridge.com>; from chris@greatbridge.com on Wed, Mar 07, 2001 at 10:17:54AM -0500 References: <3AA65122.3E9D3893@greatbridge.com> Message-ID: <20010312014257.E6859@rix.rixhq.nu> On Wed, Mar 07, 2001 at 10:17:54AM -0500, Chris Ryan wrote: > With that in mind I'm suggesting the development of a standard data > containment method that would encapsulate the data. Then data source > containers can be developed and deployed for any storage method that > some could use such as PostgreSQL, ZopeDB, flat file, etc. I will be > working on this definition, hopefully with your input, and develop the > first instance using the current storage method. Once that has been done > and Mailman modified to use it then future data sources should be easy > to add. What about putting your ideas in the MailmanDesignNotes ZWikiPage? Hopefully this will make it easier for the other developers to comment on it and suggest changes... The link for the "CentralizedUserDatabase" on Mailman's ZWikiPage is at: http://www.zope.org/Members/bwarsaw/MailmanDesignNotes/FrontPage/editform?page=CentralizedUserDatabase (you only need to have an account on zope.org and then you can edit the pages as you like) -- Regards, Ricardo From Dynamic Computer Systems"
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From detlef.neubauer@charite.de Mon Mar 12 14:35:32 2001 From: detlef.neubauer@charite.de (Detlef Neubauer) Date: 12 Mar 2001 15:35:32 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: [Mailman-Developers] MM 2.0.2: AttributeError: MMAlreadyMember In-Reply-To: Thomas Wouters's message of "Wed, 7 Mar 2001 23:52:36 +0100" References: <20010307235236.F404@xs4all.nl> Message-ID: Thomas Wouters writes: > On Wed, Mar 07, 2001 at 05:11:41PM -0500, Mentor Cana wrote: >=20 > > Here is the error I get when attempting to approve subscription Request= on > > "confirm+approval" list. >=20 > > admin(15231): File "/opt/home/mailman/Mailman/ListAdmin.py", line 331= , in __handlesubscription > > admin(15231): except Errors.MMAlreadyMember: > > admin(15231): AttributeError: MMAlreadyMember > > .... >=20 > My typo. You can fix it manually by changing line 331 of > ListAdmin.py to 'except Errors.MMAlreadyAMember:'. Note the extra > 'A' between 'Already' and 'Member'. Hello, i have the same problem and i fix it. But now i get ,----[ log/error ] | Mar 12 15:19:33 2001 admin(4109): @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@= @@@@@ | admin(4109): [----- Mailman Version: 2.0.2 -----] | admin(4109): [----- Traceback ------] | admin(4109): Traceback (innermost last): | admin(4109): File "/home/mailman/scripts/driver", line 96, in run_main | admin(4109): main() | admin(4109): File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/admindb.py", line 88, in m= ain | admin(4109): HandleRequests(mlist, doc, cgidata) | admin(4109): File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/admindb.py", line 271, in = HandleRequests | admin(4109): preserve, forward, forwardaddr) | admin(4109): File "../Mailman/ListAdmin.py", line 133, in HandleRequest | admin(4109): status =3D self.__handlesubscription(data, value, commen= t) | admin(4109): File "../Mailman/ListAdmin.py", line 330, in __handlesubsc= ription | admin(4109): self.ApprovedAddMember(addr, password, digest, lang) | admin(4109): NameError: lang | admin(4109): [----- Python Information -----] | admin(4109): sys.version =3D 1.5.2 (#1, Jun 5 2000, 12:50:00) [GCC e= gcs-2.91.60 19981201 (egcs-1.1.1=20 | admin(4109): sys.executable =3D /usr/local/bin/python | admin(4109): sys.prefix =3D /usr/local/bin/../stow/python-1.5.2 | admin(4109): sys.exec_prefix=3D /usr/local/bin/../stow/python-1.5.2 | admin(4109): sys.path =3D /usr/local/bin/../stow/python-1.5.2 | admin(4109): sys.platform =3D linux2 `---- when i will to approve a new member. The refuse funktion is working. Sorry for my english. Gru=DF Detlef Neubauer --=20 PGP-Key auf http://germany.keyserver.net/ From thomas@xs4all.net Mon Mar 12 14:42:31 2001 From: thomas@xs4all.net (Thomas Wouters) Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 15:42:31 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: [Mailman-Developers] MM 2.0.2: AttributeError: MMAlreadyMember In-Reply-To: ; from detlef.neubauer@charite.de on Mon, Mar 12, 2001 at 03:35:32PM +0100 References: <20010307235236.F404@xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <20010312154230.T100@xs4all.nl> On Mon, Mar 12, 2001 at 03:35:32PM +0100, Detlef Neubauer wrote: > Thomas Wouters writes: > > > On Wed, Mar 07, 2001 at 05:11:41PM -0500, Mentor Cana wrote: > > > > > Here is the error I get when attempting to approve subscription Request on > > > "confirm+approval" list. > > > > > admin(15231): File "/opt/home/mailman/Mailman/ListAdmin.py", line 331, in __handlesubscription > > > admin(15231): except Errors.MMAlreadyMember: > > > admin(15231): AttributeError: MMAlreadyMember > > > .... > > > > My typo. You can fix it manually by changing line 331 of > > ListAdmin.py to 'except Errors.MMAlreadyAMember:'. Note the extra > > 'A' between 'Already' and 'Member'. > Hello, > i have the same problem and i fix it. But now i get > ,----[ log/error ] > | Mar 12 15:19:33 2001 admin(4109): @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ > | admin(4109): [----- Mailman Version: 2.0.2 -----] > | admin(4109): [----- Traceback ------] > | admin(4109): Traceback (innermost last): > | admin(4109): File "/home/mailman/scripts/driver", line 96, in run_main > | admin(4109): main() > | admin(4109): File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/admindb.py", line 88, in main > | admin(4109): HandleRequests(mlist, doc, cgidata) > | admin(4109): File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/admindb.py", line 271, in HandleRequests > | admin(4109): preserve, forward, forwardaddr) > | admin(4109): File "../Mailman/ListAdmin.py", line 133, in HandleRequest > | admin(4109): status = self.__handlesubscription(data, value, comment) > | admin(4109): File "../Mailman/ListAdmin.py", line 330, in __handlesubscription > | admin(4109): self.ApprovedAddMember(addr, password, digest, lang) > | admin(4109): NameError: lang > when i will to approve a new member. The refuse funktion is working. Indeed. Barry and I found the same bug when we were preparing Mailman 2.0.3 last Thursday. This is the last time I'm using CVS to backport a patch, by the way. The solution is to remove the last argument in the call to 'self.ApprovedAddMember', turning self.ApprovedAddMember(addr, password, digest, lang) into self.ApprovedAddMember(addr, password, digest) Barry was supposed to release 2.0.3 ASAPly, but I guess he's been as devastated by jetlag as me ;P -- Thomas Wouters Hi! I'm a .signature virus! copy me into your .signature file to help me spread! From detlef.neubauer@charite.de Mon Mar 12 15:16:12 2001 From: detlef.neubauer@charite.de (Detlef Neubauer) Date: 12 Mar 2001 16:16:12 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: [Mailman-Developers] MM 2.0.2: AttributeError: MMAlreadyMember In-Reply-To: Thomas Wouters's message of "Mon, 12 Mar 2001 15:42:31 +0100" References: <20010307235236.F404@xs4all.nl> <20010312154230.T100@xs4all.nl> Message-ID: Thomas Wouters writes: > > | admin(4109): NameError: lang >=20 > > when i will to approve a new member. The refuse funktion is working. >=20 > The solution is to remove the last argument in the call to > 'self.ApprovedAddMember', turning >=20 > self.ApprovedAddMember(addr, password, digest, lang) >=20 > into >=20 > self.ApprovedAddMember(addr, password, digest) >=20 Hello Thomas, thanks for your fast support. I try it and it works. :-) Gru=DF Detlef Neubauer --=20 PGP-Key auf http://germany.keyserver.net/ From barry@digicool.com Mon Mar 12 22:29:06 2001 From: barry@digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw) Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 17:29:06 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] ANNOUNCE Mailman 2.0.3 Message-ID: <15021.19890.887096.306934@anthem.wooz.org> --O17lvtC8kj Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Description: message body text Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'm sorry folks. As some of you are aware, a small but nasty typo snuck its way into the Mailman 2.0.2 release, necessitating a bug fix patch. Thus I've just uploaded Mailman 2.0.3 to SourceForge. I highly recommend that you upgrade to this version. As usual I'm releasing this as both a complete tarball and as a patch against Mailman 2.0.2. You /must/ update your source to 2.0.2 before applying the 2.0.3 patch. Since the patch is small, I'm including it in this message. To apply, cd into your 2.0.2 source tree and apply it like so: % patch -p0 < mailman-2.0.2-2.0.3.diff Currently both http://mailman.sourceforge.net and http://www.list.org are updated, and I expect the gnu.org site to be updated soon as well. The release information on SF is at http://sourceforge.net/project/shownotes.php?release_id=27001 -Barry P.S. It was nice to meet so many Mailman fans at IPC9! It was also quite cool to finally meet Thomas Wouters. Don't worry Thomas, I won't hold this one against ya. :) [From the NEWS file] 2.0.3 (12-Mar-2001) Bug fix release. There was a small typo in 2.0.2 in ListAdmin.py for approving an already subscribed member (thanks Thomas!). Also, an update to the OpenWall security workaround (contrib/securelinux_fix.py) was included. Thanks to Marc Merlin. --O17lvtC8kj Content-Type: text/plain Content-Description: Patch Mailman 2.0.2 -> 2.0.3 Content-Disposition: inline; filename="mailman-2.0.2-2.0.3.diff" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Index: NEWS =================================================================== RCS file: /cvsroot/mailman/mailman/NEWS,v retrieving revision 1.25.2.2 retrieving revision 1.25.2.4 diff -u -r1.25.2.2 -r1.25.2.4 --- NEWS 2001/03/03 06:51:26 1.25.2.2 +++ NEWS 2001/03/12 19:32:10 1.25.2.4 @@ -1,8 +1,15 @@ Mailman - The GNU Mailing List Management System -Copyright (C) 1998,1999,2000 by the Free Software Foundation, Inc. +Copyright (C) 1998,1999,2000,2001 by the Free Software Foundation, Inc. 59 Temple Place - Suite 330, Boston, MA 02111-1307, USA Here is a history of user visible changes to Mailman. + +2.0.3 (12-Mar-2001) + + Bug fix release. There was a small typo in 2.0.2 in ListAdmin.py + for approving an already subscribed member (thanks Thomas!). + Also, an update to the OpenWall security workaround + (contrib/securelinux_fix.py) was included. Thanks to Marc Merlin. 2.0.2 (03-Mar-2001) Index: README.LINUX =================================================================== RCS file: /cvsroot/mailman/mailman/README.LINUX,v retrieving revision 1.6 retrieving revision 1.6.2.1 diff -u -r1.6 -r1.6.2.1 --- README.LINUX 2000/09/19 17:25:23 1.6 +++ README.LINUX 2001/03/12 19:21:50 1.6.2.1 @@ -1,5 +1,5 @@ Mailman - The GNU Mailing List Management System -Copyright (C) 1998,1999,2000 by the Free Software Foundation, Inc. +Copyright (C) 1998,1999,2000,2001 by the Free Software Foundation, Inc. 59 Temple Place - Suite 330, Boston, MA 02111-1307, USA GNU/LINUX ISSUES @@ -14,6 +14,11 @@ can cause "Operation not permitted" errors in MailList.Save() -- you will see a traceback. You must turn restricted hardlinks off. This is also known under the name of Openwall Security Patches. + +There is a workaround for this problem, you can use securelinux_fix.py +in the contrib directory (see the README.securelinux_fix.py). Note +that the script will not work until you move it in your installed +Mailman tree in the bin directory. Index: Mailman/ListAdmin.py =================================================================== RCS file: /cvsroot/mailman/mailman/Mailman/ListAdmin.py,v retrieving revision 1.47.2.1 retrieving revision 1.47.2.4 diff -u -r1.47.2.1 -r1.47.2.4 --- Mailman/ListAdmin.py 2001/03/02 23:32:15 1.47.2.1 +++ Mailman/ListAdmin.py 2001/03/07 23:26:49 1.47.2.4 @@ -1,4 +1,4 @@ -# Copyright (C) 1998,1999,2000 by the Free Software Foundation, Inc. +# Copyright (C) 1998,1999,2000,2001 by the Free Software Foundation, Inc. # # This program is free software; you can redistribute it and/or # modify it under the terms of the GNU General Public License @@ -327,8 +327,8 @@ # subscribe assert value == mm_cfg.SUBSCRIBE try: - self.ApprovedAddMember(addr, password, digest, lang) - except Errors.MMAlreadyMember: + self.ApprovedAddMember(addr, password, digest) + except Errors.MMAlreadyAMember: # User has already been subscribed, after sending the request pass # TBD: disgusting hack: ApprovedAddMember() can end up closing Index: Mailman/Version.py =================================================================== RCS file: /cvsroot/mailman/mailman/Mailman/Version.py,v retrieving revision 1.20.2.2 retrieving revision 1.20.2.3 diff -u -r1.20.2.2 -r1.20.2.3 --- Mailman/Version.py 2001/03/03 06:19:15 1.20.2.2 +++ Mailman/Version.py 2001/03/07 23:25:41 1.20.2.3 @@ -15,7 +15,7 @@ # Foundation, Inc., 59 Temple Place - Suite 330, Boston, MA 02111-1307, USA. # Mailman version -VERSION = "2.0.2" +VERSION = "2.0.3" # And as a hex number in the manner of PY_VERSION_HEX ALPHA = 0xa @@ -27,7 +27,7 @@ MAJOR_REV = 2 MINOR_REV = 0 -MICRO_REV = 2 +MICRO_REV = 3 REL_LEVEL = FINAL # at most 15 beta releases! REL_SERIAL = 0 Index: admin/www/download.ht =================================================================== RCS file: /cvsroot/mailman/mailman/admin/www/download.ht,v retrieving revision 1.5.2.2 retrieving revision 1.5.2.4 diff -u -r1.5.2.2 -r1.5.2.4 --- admin/www/download.ht 2001/03/03 06:18:47 1.5.2.2 +++ admin/www/download.ht 2001/03/12 19:33:49 1.5.2.4 @@ -65,9 +65,9 @@

Downloading

Version -(2.0.2, +(2.0.3, released on -Mar 3 2001) +Mar 12 2001) is the current GNU release. It is available from the following mirror sites:

    Index: admin/www/download.html =================================================================== RCS file: /cvsroot/mailman/mailman/admin/www/download.html,v retrieving revision 1.6.2.4 retrieving revision 1.6.2.6 diff -u -r1.6.2.4 -r1.6.2.6 --- admin/www/download.html 2001/03/03 06:18:47 1.6.2.4 +++ admin/www/download.html 2001/03/12 19:33:49 1.6.2.6 @@ -1,6 +1,6 @@ - + 2.0.2, +(2.0.3, released on -Mar 3 2001) +Mar 12 2001) is the current GNU release. It is available from the following mirror sites:
      Index: contrib/README.securelinux_fix =================================================================== RCS file: README.securelinux_fix diff -N README.securelinux_fix --- /dev/null Mon Dec 11 17:26:27 2000 +++ contrib/README.securelinux_fix Mon Mar 12 11:49:35 2001 @@ -0,0 +1,12 @@ +The securelinux_fix.py script, if copied in your installed +~mailman/bin/ directory and run from there will modify permissions of +files so that Mailman works despite the securelinux (aka openwall) +symbolic and hard link restrictions. + +The way it works is that it makes sure that the UID of any script that +touches config.db is `mailman'. What this means however is that +scripts in ~mailman/bin will now only work if run as user mailman or +root (the script then changes its UID and GID to mailman). + +Enjoy +Marc MERLIN / Index: contrib/securelinux_fix.py =================================================================== RCS file: /cvsroot/mailman/mailman/contrib/securelinux_fix.py,v retrieving revision 1.2 retrieving revision 1.2.2.1 diff -u -r1.2 -r1.2.2.1 --- contrib/securelinux_fix.py 2000/11/09 02:07:01 1.2 +++ contrib/securelinux_fix.py 2001/03/12 19:25:04 1.2.2.1 @@ -1,6 +1,6 @@ #! /usr/bin/env python # -# Copyright (C) 1998,1999,2000 by the Free Software Foundation, Inc. +# Copyright (C) 1998,1999,2000,2001 by the Free Software Foundation, Inc. # # This program is free software; you can redistribute it and/or # modify it under the terms of the GNU General Public License @@ -25,12 +25,12 @@ Mailman. The idea is that config.db files have to be owned by the mailman UID and only touched by programs that are UID mailman. -If you have to run check_perms -f, make sure to also run %(PROGRAM) -f, which -applies the necessary permission fixes +If you have to run check_perms -f, make sure to also run securelinux_fix.py +-f, which applies the necessary permission fixes. -As a result, to prevent anyone from running priviledged Mailman commands -\(since the scripts are suid), binary commands that are changed to be SUID are -also unreadable and unrunable by people who aren't in the mailman group. This +As a result, to prevent anyone from running privileged Mailman commands (since +the scripts are suid), binary commands that are changed to be SUID are also +unreadable and unrunnable by people who aren't in the mailman group. This shouldn't affect much since most of those commands would fail work if you weren't part of the mailman group anyway. @@ -45,8 +45,6 @@ from Mailman import mm_cfg from Mailman.mm_cfg import MAILMAN_UID, MAILMAN_GID from stat import * - -PROGRAM = sys.argv[0] # Those are the programs that we patch so that they insist being run under the # mailman uid or as root. --O17lvtC8kj-- From colinj@cs.unm.edu Mon Mar 12 22:32:43 2001 From: colinj@cs.unm.edu (Colin Eric Johnson) Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 15:32:43 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <15021.19890.887096.306934@anthem.wooz.org> Message-ID: Subject: away from my email I'm away from my email until March 19th. If you have questions about the computing systems at the University of New Mexico's Dept. of Computer Science please send mail to: cssupport@cs.unm.edu -Colin J. From a.gietl@e-admin.de Mon Mar 12 23:00:54 2001 From: a.gietl@e-admin.de (Andreas Gietl) Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 00:00:54 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Re: [Mailman-Announce] ANNOUNCE Mailman 2.0.3 References: <15021.19890.887096.306934@anthem.wooz.org> Message-ID: <3AAD5526.AFDA7B02@e-admin.de> it seems there's a problem with the configure script ... it always told me that the permissions on the install-directory should at least be 02755 - but they were 2755. So i had to comment the lines checking in configure out. Am i wrong or is there a bug? "Barry A. Warsaw" wrote: > > I'm sorry folks. As some of you are aware, a small but nasty typo > snuck its way into the Mailman 2.0.2 release, necessitating a bug fix > patch. Thus I've just uploaded Mailman 2.0.3 to SourceForge. I > highly recommend that you upgrade to this version. > > As usual I'm releasing this as both a complete tarball and as a patch > against Mailman 2.0.2. You /must/ update your source to 2.0.2 before > applying the 2.0.3 patch. Since the patch is small, I'm including it > in this message. To apply, cd into your 2.0.2 source tree and apply > it like so: > > % patch -p0 < mailman-2.0.2-2.0.3.diff > > Currently both http://mailman.sourceforge.net and http://www.list.org > are updated, and I expect the gnu.org site to be updated soon as > well. The release information on SF is at > > http://sourceforge.net/project/shownotes.php?release_id=27001 > > -Barry > > P.S. It was nice to meet so many Mailman fans at IPC9! It was also > quite cool to finally meet Thomas Wouters. Don't worry Thomas, I > won't hold this one against ya. :) > > [From the NEWS file] > > 2.0.3 (12-Mar-2001) > > Bug fix release. There was a small typo in 2.0.2 in ListAdmin.py > for approving an already subscribed member (thanks Thomas!). > Also, an update to the OpenWall security workaround > (contrib/securelinux_fix.py) was included. Thanks to Marc Merlin. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Index: NEWS > =================================================================== > RCS file: /cvsroot/mailman/mailman/NEWS,v > retrieving revision 1.25.2.2 > retrieving revision 1.25.2.4 > diff -u -r1.25.2.2 -r1.25.2.4 > --- NEWS 2001/03/03 06:51:26 1.25.2.2 > +++ NEWS 2001/03/12 19:32:10 1.25.2.4 > @@ -1,8 +1,15 @@ > Mailman - The GNU Mailing List Management System > -Copyright (C) 1998,1999,2000 by the Free Software Foundation, Inc. > +Copyright (C) 1998,1999,2000,2001 by the Free Software Foundation, Inc. > 59 Temple Place - Suite 330, Boston, MA 02111-1307, USA > > Here is a history of user visible changes to Mailman. > + > +2.0.3 (12-Mar-2001) > + > + Bug fix release. There was a small typo in 2.0.2 in ListAdmin.py > + for approving an already subscribed member (thanks Thomas!). > + Also, an update to the OpenWall security workaround > + (contrib/securelinux_fix.py) was included. Thanks to Marc Merlin. > > 2.0.2 (03-Mar-2001) > > Index: README.LINUX > =================================================================== > RCS file: /cvsroot/mailman/mailman/README.LINUX,v > retrieving revision 1.6 > retrieving revision 1.6.2.1 > diff -u -r1.6 -r1.6.2.1 > --- README.LINUX 2000/09/19 17:25:23 1.6 > +++ README.LINUX 2001/03/12 19:21:50 1.6.2.1 > @@ -1,5 +1,5 @@ > Mailman - The GNU Mailing List Management System > -Copyright (C) 1998,1999,2000 by the Free Software Foundation, Inc. > +Copyright (C) 1998,1999,2000,2001 by the Free Software Foundation, Inc. > 59 Temple Place - Suite 330, Boston, MA 02111-1307, USA > > GNU/LINUX ISSUES > @@ -14,6 +14,11 @@ > can cause "Operation not permitted" errors in MailList.Save() -- you > will see a traceback. You must turn restricted hardlinks off. This > is also known under the name of Openwall Security Patches. > + > +There is a workaround for this problem, you can use securelinux_fix.py > +in the contrib directory (see the README.securelinux_fix.py). Note > +that the script will not work until you move it in your installed > +Mailman tree in the bin directory. > > > > Index: Mailman/ListAdmin.py > =================================================================== > RCS file: /cvsroot/mailman/mailman/Mailman/ListAdmin.py,v > retrieving revision 1.47.2.1 > retrieving revision 1.47.2.4 > diff -u -r1.47.2.1 -r1.47.2.4 > --- Mailman/ListAdmin.py 2001/03/02 23:32:15 1.47.2.1 > +++ Mailman/ListAdmin.py 2001/03/07 23:26:49 1.47.2.4 > @@ -1,4 +1,4 @@ > -# Copyright (C) 1998,1999,2000 by the Free Software Foundation, Inc. > +# Copyright (C) 1998,1999,2000,2001 by the Free Software Foundation, Inc. > # > # This program is free software; you can redistribute it and/or > # modify it under the terms of the GNU General Public License > @@ -327,8 +327,8 @@ > # subscribe > assert value == mm_cfg.SUBSCRIBE > try: > - self.ApprovedAddMember(addr, password, digest, lang) > - except Errors.MMAlreadyMember: > + self.ApprovedAddMember(addr, password, digest) > + except Errors.MMAlreadyAMember: > # User has already been subscribed, after sending the request > pass > # TBD: disgusting hack: ApprovedAddMember() can end up closing > Index: Mailman/Version.py > =================================================================== > RCS file: /cvsroot/mailman/mailman/Mailman/Version.py,v > retrieving revision 1.20.2.2 > retrieving revision 1.20.2.3 > diff -u -r1.20.2.2 -r1.20.2.3 > --- Mailman/Version.py 2001/03/03 06:19:15 1.20.2.2 > +++ Mailman/Version.py 2001/03/07 23:25:41 1.20.2.3 > @@ -15,7 +15,7 @@ > # Foundation, Inc., 59 Temple Place - Suite 330, Boston, MA 02111-1307, USA. > > # Mailman version > -VERSION = "2.0.2" > +VERSION = "2.0.3" > > # And as a hex number in the manner of PY_VERSION_HEX > ALPHA = 0xa > @@ -27,7 +27,7 @@ > > MAJOR_REV = 2 > MINOR_REV = 0 > -MICRO_REV = 2 > +MICRO_REV = 3 > REL_LEVEL = FINAL > # at most 15 beta releases! > REL_SERIAL = 0 > Index: admin/www/download.ht > =================================================================== > RCS file: /cvsroot/mailman/mailman/admin/www/download.ht,v > retrieving revision 1.5.2.2 > retrieving revision 1.5.2.4 > diff -u -r1.5.2.2 -r1.5.2.4 > --- admin/www/download.ht 2001/03/03 06:18:47 1.5.2.2 > +++ admin/www/download.ht 2001/03/12 19:33:49 1.5.2.4 > @@ -65,9 +65,9 @@ >

      Downloading

      > >

      Version > -(2.0.2, > +(2.0.3, > released on > -Mar 3 2001) > +Mar 12 2001) > is the current GNU release. It is available from the following mirror sites: > >

        > Index: admin/www/download.html > =================================================================== > RCS file: /cvsroot/mailman/mailman/admin/www/download.html,v > retrieving revision 1.6.2.4 > retrieving revision 1.6.2.6 > diff -u -r1.6.2.4 -r1.6.2.6 > --- admin/www/download.html 2001/03/03 06:18:47 1.6.2.4 > +++ admin/www/download.html 2001/03/12 19:33:49 1.6.2.6 > @@ -1,6 +1,6 @@ > > > - > + > > > 2.0.2, > +(2.0.3, > released on > -Mar 3 2001) > +Mar 12 2001) > is the current GNU release. It is available from the following mirror sites: > >
          > Index: contrib/README.securelinux_fix > =================================================================== > RCS file: README.securelinux_fix > diff -N README.securelinux_fix > --- /dev/null Mon Dec 11 17:26:27 2000 > +++ contrib/README.securelinux_fix Mon Mar 12 11:49:35 2001 > @@ -0,0 +1,12 @@ > +The securelinux_fix.py script, if copied in your installed > +~mailman/bin/ directory and run from there will modify permissions of > +files so that Mailman works despite the securelinux (aka openwall) > +symbolic and hard link restrictions. > + > +The way it works is that it makes sure that the UID of any script that > +touches config.db is `mailman'. What this means however is that > +scripts in ~mailman/bin will now only work if run as user mailman or > +root (the script then changes its UID and GID to mailman). > + > +Enjoy > +Marc MERLIN / > Index: contrib/securelinux_fix.py > =================================================================== > RCS file: /cvsroot/mailman/mailman/contrib/securelinux_fix.py,v > retrieving revision 1.2 > retrieving revision 1.2.2.1 > diff -u -r1.2 -r1.2.2.1 > --- contrib/securelinux_fix.py 2000/11/09 02:07:01 1.2 > +++ contrib/securelinux_fix.py 2001/03/12 19:25:04 1.2.2.1 > @@ -1,6 +1,6 @@ > #! /usr/bin/env python > # > -# Copyright (C) 1998,1999,2000 by the Free Software Foundation, Inc. > +# Copyright (C) 1998,1999,2000,2001 by the Free Software Foundation, Inc. > # > # This program is free software; you can redistribute it and/or > # modify it under the terms of the GNU General Public License > @@ -25,12 +25,12 @@ > Mailman. The idea is that config.db files have to be owned by the mailman UID > and only touched by programs that are UID mailman. > > -If you have to run check_perms -f, make sure to also run %(PROGRAM) -f, which > -applies the necessary permission fixes > +If you have to run check_perms -f, make sure to also run securelinux_fix.py > +-f, which applies the necessary permission fixes. > > -As a result, to prevent anyone from running priviledged Mailman commands > -\(since the scripts are suid), binary commands that are changed to be SUID are > -also unreadable and unrunable by people who aren't in the mailman group. This > +As a result, to prevent anyone from running privileged Mailman commands (since > +the scripts are suid), binary commands that are changed to be SUID are also > +unreadable and unrunnable by people who aren't in the mailman group. This > shouldn't affect much since most of those commands would fail work if you > weren't part of the mailman group anyway. > > @@ -45,8 +45,6 @@ > from Mailman import mm_cfg > from Mailman.mm_cfg import MAILMAN_UID, MAILMAN_GID > from stat import * > - > -PROGRAM = sys.argv[0] > > # Those are the programs that we patch so that they insist being run under the > # mailman uid or as root. -- ACHTUNG NEUE ADRESSE + Telefonnummer andreas gietl gietl internet services roter-brach-weg 124a / 93049 Regensburg fon +49 941 3810884 fax +49 941 3810891 mobile +49 171 60 70 008 gietl@gietl.com From jra@baylink.com Tue Mar 13 01:53:56 2001 From: jra@baylink.com (Jay R. Ashworth) Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 20:53:56 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Using Mailman as a broadcast list manager - folo In-Reply-To: <3AAD5526.AFDA7B02@e-admin.de>; from Andreas Gietl on Tue, Mar 13, 2001 at 12:00:54AM +0100 References: <15021.19890.887096.306934@anthem.wooz.org> <3AAD5526.AFDA7B02@e-admin.de> Message-ID: <20010312205356.52769@scfn.thpl.lib.fl.us> Well, everyone's apparently busy doing other stuff just now, so I hacked around in SMTPdirect.py, and added the following: ========================== # Split the recipient list into SMTP_MAX_RCPTS chunks. Most MTAs have a # limit on the number of recipients they'll swallow in a single # transaction. if mm_cfg.SMTP_MAX_RCPTS <= 0: chunks = [recips] else: chunks = chunkify(recips, mm_cfg.SMTP_MAX_RCPTS) refused = {} t0 = time.time() # Look in the list for a max/day, set up to pause for the necessary # amount of time. This will hose the efficiency logging stuff, # but I don't see any other approach... # grabbed from globals for now, til I unwind the context # Mon Mar 12 15:38:48 EST 2001 by jra@baylink.com msg_limit = 0 try: msg_limit = mm_cfg.MAX_MSGS_PER_DAY except: pass if msg_limit > 0: max_chunks_per_day = (msg_limit / mm_cfg.SMTP_MAX_RCPTS) delay_after_chunk = 86400 / max_chunks_per_day # We can improve performance by unlocking the list during delivery. We # must re-lock it though afterwards to ensure the pipeline delivery # invariant. try: mlist.Save() mlist.Unlock() if threading: threaded_deliver(admin, msgtext, chunks, refused) else: for chunk in chunks: deliver(admin, msgtext, chunk, refused) # throttle deliveries if msg_limit > 0: time.sleep(delay_after_chunk) finally: t1 = time.time() mlist.Lock() # Log the successful post syslog('smtp', 'smtp for %d recips, completed in %.3f seconds' % (len(recips), (t1-t0))) ================================ But I'm not sure how that's going to fly. Without a MAX_MSGS_PER_DAY set in mm_cfg.py, it doesn't seem to be affecting the bulk subscribe welcome messages... though I had to hand chunk those into 1000 address groups; add_members is simply *not* architected to load in 51,000 addresses at a time; the loops are too deep. Will this approach cause locking problems, etc? Cheers, -- jra -- Jay R. Ashworth jra@baylink.com Member of the Technical Staff Baylink The Suncoast Freenet The Things I Think Tampa Bay, Florida http://baylink.pitas.com +1 727 804 5015 From thomas@xs4all.net Tue Mar 13 02:37:10 2001 From: thomas@xs4all.net (Thomas Wouters) Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 03:37:10 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Re: [Mailman-Announce] ANNOUNCE Mailman 2.0.3 In-Reply-To: <3AAD5526.AFDA7B02@e-admin.de>; from a.gietl@e-admin.de on Tue, Mar 13, 2001 at 12:00:54AM +0100 References: <15021.19890.887096.306934@anthem.wooz.org> <3AAD5526.AFDA7B02@e-admin.de> Message-ID: <20010313033710.X404@xs4all.nl> On Tue, Mar 13, 2001 at 12:00:54AM +0100, Andreas Gietl wrote: > it seems there's a problem with the configure script ... it always told > me that the permissions on the install-directory should at least be > 02755 - but they were 2755. So i had to comment the lines checking in > configure out. Am i wrong or is there a bug? Well, nothing has changed in configure, neither in this patch nor the last. Are you sure both you and configure are looking at the *same* directory ? Configure complained to me, too, but legitimately, as the installation directory was not mode 02755. doing a 'chmod 02755 /usr/local/mailman' fixed it just fine, for me. PS: Try not to quote the entire message next time. Your message included Barry's whole message, including the patch he attached. PPS: I had a tremendous time at IPC9 as well. Meeting Barry finally put a voice and a speech pattern (not to mention height and build ;) to all his emails. At least now I can tell when he's joking or not :) -- Thomas Wouters Hi! I'm a .signature virus! copy me into your .signature file to help me spread! From barry@digicool.com Tue Mar 13 03:33:51 2001 From: barry@digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw) Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 22:33:51 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Re: [Mailman-Announce] ANNOUNCE Mailman 2.0.3 References: <15021.19890.887096.306934@anthem.wooz.org> <3AAD5526.AFDA7B02@e-admin.de> <20010313033710.X404@xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <15021.38175.797037.858922@anthem.wooz.org> >>>>> "TW" == Thomas Wouters writes: TW> PPS: I had a tremendous time at IPC9 as well. Meeting Barry TW> finally put a voice and a speech pattern (not to mention TW> height and build ;) to all his emails. At least now I can tell TW> when he's joking or not :) Ah, the perfidious (and tall) Dutch strike again! Fortunately, I confused a lot of people by that false picture on my home page. you'll-have-to-remind-me-when-i'm-/not/-joking-ly y'rs, -Barry From jcrey@uma.es Tue Mar 13 11:26:01 2001 From: jcrey@uma.es (Juan Carlos Rey Anaya) Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 12:26:01 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Playing with i18n Message-ID: <3AAE03C9.7B39EEA5@uma.es> I have uploaded my local copy of - English and spanish templates - spanish catalog, updated to March, 13th 2001 at ftp://ftp.uma.es/pub/mailman For those who would like to play with i18n. Cheers -- = ___ / F \ [[[]]]] ( O O ) #----------------0000--(_)--0000---------------# | Juan Carlos Rey Anaya (jcrey@uma.es) | | Servicio Central de inform=E1tica | | Universidad de M=E1laga - Espa=F1a | #----------------------------------------------# From tfheen@debian.org Tue Mar 13 16:13:08 2001 From: tfheen@debian.org (Tollef Fog Heen) Date: 13 Mar 2001 17:13:08 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Small patch concerning Debian bug #50583 Message-ID: <87lmq9k5pn.fsf@manon.intern.opera.no> Hi, I am the new Debian maintainer of Mailman, which means that I'll probably bug some of you concerning old bugs.. :) If any of the bugs listed at http://bugs.debian.org/mailman are fixed, I'd like to know, so that I can close them. (The bug report is at http://bugs.debian.org/50583 ). The patch is simple: --- bin/newlist~ Sat Mar 3 06:58:19 2001 +++ bin/newlist Tue Mar 13 17:06:48 2001 @@ -208,7 +208,8 @@ }) msg = Message.UserNotification( owner_mail, - 'mailman-owner@' + mlist.host_name, + MAILMAN_OWNER, +# 'mailman-owner@' + mlist.host_name, 'Your new mailing list: ' + listname, text) HandlerAPI.DeliverToUser(mlist, msg) However, it seems like mailman-owner is hard coded into templates/newlist.txt as well. -- Tollef Fog Heen Unix _IS_ user friendly... It's just selective about who its friends are. From jerry@hollyjerry.org Tue Mar 13 16:36:35 2001 From: jerry@hollyjerry.org (Jerry Asher) Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 08:36:35 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] mailman and the web In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <4.2.2.20010312193934.00d10170@hollyjerry.org> I would like to unify mailman with an ACS bboard. The Open ACS (http://openacs.org) is a toolkit developing interactive community websites based on PostgreSQL and Tcl. ACS Bboards are just what they sound like, a discussion forum in which visitors to a site can post questions, or post answers to the questions that others have asked. Currently the ACS system is such that visitors can request that follow up answers be sent to them, which the ACS implements by creating hundreds of individual emails and mailing them out. The "From" header is set to a bogus address (bboard-robot) and the Reply-To: header is set to the author of the new answer. Vacation messages get sent back to the author of the post. This means that if you reply to a message, the answer IS NOT posted on the bulletin board. I would like to "unify" the ACS bulletin board code with "some" mailing list manager. The benefits to the ACS toolkit I perceive would include: 1 detecting/catching vacation messages 2 detecting/catching/(and maybe unsubscribing) bounces 3 ability to post directly to the bulletin from email (and have the posts end up in the right threads) 4 but I am worried about mail loops. Can someone tell me "how well" Mailman performs at detecting/catching vacation and bounce messages? I know little about mailing lists, or Mailman, or mail headers. But with a few pointers, I am willing to learn. I wonder what the issues involved in this unification are? Are the four issues I am interested/worried significant enough that it makes sense to want to delegate this to Mailman? Or would it be easier/satisfactory to "just change the headers of the outgoing emails, and create some sort of procmail script to process new messages and post them into the right thread? If you feel that unification would be useful for my purposes, can someone tell me the right "places" in Mailman to get started? If I want to "inject" a message into Mailman for sending out to others, how would I do that? If I wanted to "capture" the incoming message for processing, where do I look for that? And how might I implement threading? Thank you, Jerry Asher ===================================================== Jerry Asher jerry@hollyjerry.org 1678 Shattuck Avenue Suite 161 Tel: (510) 549-2980 Berkeley, CA 94709 Fax: (877) 311-8688 From jra@baylink.com Tue Mar 13 16:40:02 2001 From: jra@baylink.com (Jay R. Ashworth) Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 11:40:02 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] mailman and the web In-Reply-To: <4.2.2.20010312193934.00d10170@hollyjerry.org>; from Jerry Asher on Tue, Mar 13, 2001 at 08:36:35AM -0800 References: <4.2.2.20010312193934.00d10170@hollyjerry.org> Message-ID: <20010313114002.62643@scfn.thpl.lib.fl.us> On Tue, Mar 13, 2001 at 08:36:35AM -0800, Jerry Asher wrote: > 4 but I am worried about mail loops. > > Can someone tell me "how well" Mailman performs at detecting/catching > vacation and bounce messages? Well, I can pipe in on this one part of the topic. [Part of] The problem is that there are some vacation daemons that are poorly written, and send notices to the wrong place... Cheers, -- jra -- Jay R. Ashworth jra@baylink.com Member of the Technical Staff Baylink The Suncoast Freenet The Things I Think Tampa Bay, Florida http://baylink.pitas.com +1 727 804 5015 From chris@greatbridge.com Tue Mar 13 17:16:32 2001 From: chris@greatbridge.com (Chris Ryan) Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 12:16:32 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] mailman and the web References: <4.2.2.20010312193934.00d10170@hollyjerry.org> Message-ID: <3AAE55F0.6A8A2F65@greatbridge.com> Jerry, Currently I'm working on developing code for Mailman that will allow Mailman to work using any appropiate datasource. I plan on implimenting the flatfile (currently what is used today) and a PostgreSQL database datasource. I should have the first draft of the interface up on the Mailman ZWiki page by the end of the day. Stay tuned for more information on that. In regards to a Mail/Forum combination that is also one of my end goals. The following plan is as such for entire layout: Phase 1: Mailman uses database for configuration Phase 2: Mailman uses database for archives Phase 3: Develop Php front-end for Archives/Admin utils Phase 4: Incorporate/develop a forum ontop of previous changes In the spirit of open source the first 3 phases will be contributed back to Mailman in some manner. I don't know all the details about phase 4 as of yet so I can't say if that will be contributed back or not as a usefull piece for Mailman. I'm hoping to get the interface squared away soon at which point any help would be wonderful for the conversion of mailman to use the interface and the development of any datasources that people would wish Mailman to use. Chris Ryan chris@greatbridge.com Jerry Asher wrote: > > I would like to unify mailman with an ACS bboard. The Open ACS > (http://openacs.org) is a toolkit developing interactive community websites > based on PostgreSQL and Tcl. ACS Bboards are just what they sound like, a > discussion forum in which visitors to a site can post questions, or post > answers to the questions that others have asked. > > Currently the ACS system is such that visitors can request that follow up > answers be sent to them, which the ACS implements by creating hundreds of > individual emails and mailing them out. The "From" header is set to a > bogus address (bboard-robot) and the Reply-To: header is set to the author > of the new answer. Vacation messages get sent back to the author of the > post. This means that if you reply to a message, the answer IS NOT posted > on the bulletin board. > > I would like to "unify" the ACS bulletin board code with "some" mailing > list manager. The benefits to the ACS toolkit I perceive would include: > > 1 detecting/catching vacation messages > 2 detecting/catching/(and maybe unsubscribing) bounces > 3 ability to post directly to the bulletin from email > (and have the posts end up in the right threads) > > 4 but I am worried about mail loops. > > Can someone tell me "how well" Mailman performs at detecting/catching > vacation and bounce messages? > > I know little about mailing lists, or Mailman, or mail headers. But with a > few pointers, I am willing to learn. > > I wonder what the issues involved in this unification are? Are the four > issues I am interested/worried significant enough that it makes sense to > want to delegate this to Mailman? Or would it be easier/satisfactory to > "just change the headers of the outgoing emails, and create some sort of > procmail script to process new messages and post them into the right thread? > > If you feel that unification would be useful for my purposes, can someone > tell me the right "places" in Mailman to get started? If I want to > "inject" a message into Mailman for sending out to others, how would I do > that? If I wanted to "capture" the incoming message for processing, where > do I look for that? And how might I implement threading? > > Thank you, > > Jerry Asher > ===================================================== > Jerry Asher jerry@hollyjerry.org > 1678 Shattuck Avenue Suite 161 Tel: (510) 549-2980 > Berkeley, CA 94709 Fax: (877) 311-8688 > > _______________________________________________ > Mailman-Developers mailing list > Mailman-Developers@python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers From jerry@hollyjerry.org Tue Mar 13 17:23:28 2001 From: jerry@hollyjerry.org (Jerry Asher) Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 09:23:28 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] mailman and the web In-Reply-To: <3AAE55F0.6A8A2F65@greatbridge.com> References: <4.2.2.20010312193934.00d10170@hollyjerry.org> Message-ID: <4.2.2.20010313091845.00d26e30@hollyjerry.org> Chris, Sounds good, I'll be looking for your draft later on. > I'm hoping to get the interface squared away soon at which point any >help would be wonderful for the conversion of mailman to use the >interface and the development of any datasources that people would wish >Mailman to use. I'll be happy to help as I can, I can certainly help in the end step, step 4, by testing/converting the ACS to use your interface. When you write, >Phase 3: Develop Php front-end for Archives/Admin utils That makes me curious. I know Tcl (and C, LISP, etc.) but not Python or PHP. One reason for undertaking this project was to give me something "real" to focus on while learning Python. My understanding was that Python and PHP are somewhat competing technologies. Mailman is a Python tool right? What makes you choose Php for front-end development? Thanks, Jerry At 12:16 PM 3/13/01 -0500, Chris Ryan wrote: >Jerry, > > Currently I'm working on developing code for Mailman that will allow >Mailman to work using any appropiate datasource. I plan on implimenting >the flatfile (currently what is used today) and a PostgreSQL database >datasource. I should have the first draft of the interface up on the >Mailman ZWiki page by the end of the day. Stay tuned for more >information on that. > > In regards to a Mail/Forum combination that is also one of my end >goals. The following plan is as such for entire layout: > >Phase 1: Mailman uses database for configuration >Phase 2: Mailman uses database for archives >Phase 3: Develop Php front-end for Archives/Admin utils >Phase 4: Incorporate/develop a forum ontop of previous changes > > In the spirit of open source the first 3 phases will be contributed >back to Mailman in some manner. I don't know all the details about phase >4 as of yet so I can't say if that will be contributed back or not as a >usefull piece for Mailman. > > I'm hoping to get the interface squared away soon at which point any >help would be wonderful for the conversion of mailman to use the >interface and the development of any datasources that people would wish >Mailman to use. > >Chris Ryan >chris@greatbridge.com > >Jerry Asher wrote: > > > > I would like to unify mailman with an ACS bboard. The Open ACS > > (http://openacs.org) is a toolkit developing interactive community websites > > based on PostgreSQL and Tcl. ACS Bboards are just what they sound like, a > > discussion forum in which visitors to a site can post questions, or post > > answers to the questions that others have asked. > > > > Currently the ACS system is such that visitors can request that follow up > > answers be sent to them, which the ACS implements by creating hundreds of > > individual emails and mailing them out. The "From" header is set to a > > bogus address (bboard-robot) and the Reply-To: header is set to the author > > of the new answer. Vacation messages get sent back to the author of the > > post. This means that if you reply to a message, the answer IS NOT posted > > on the bulletin board. > > > > I would like to "unify" the ACS bulletin board code with "some" mailing > > list manager. The benefits to the ACS toolkit I perceive would include: > > > > 1 detecting/catching vacation messages > > 2 detecting/catching/(and maybe unsubscribing) bounces > > 3 ability to post directly to the bulletin from email > > (and have the posts end up in the right threads) > > > > 4 but I am worried about mail loops. > > > > Can someone tell me "how well" Mailman performs at detecting/catching > > vacation and bounce messages? > > > > I know little about mailing lists, or Mailman, or mail headers. But with a > > few pointers, I am willing to learn. > > > > I wonder what the issues involved in this unification are? Are the four > > issues I am interested/worried significant enough that it makes sense to > > want to delegate this to Mailman? Or would it be easier/satisfactory to > > "just change the headers of the outgoing emails, and create some sort of > > procmail script to process new messages and post them into the right > thread? > > > > If you feel that unification would be useful for my purposes, can someone > > tell me the right "places" in Mailman to get started? If I want to > > "inject" a message into Mailman for sending out to others, how would I do > > that? If I wanted to "capture" the incoming message for processing, where > > do I look for that? And how might I implement threading? > > > > Thank you, > > > > Jerry Asher > > ===================================================== > > Jerry Asher jerry@hollyjerry.org > > 1678 Shattuck Avenue Suite 161 Tel: (510) 549-2980 > > Berkeley, CA 94709 Fax: (877) 311-8688 > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Mailman-Developers mailing list > > Mailman-Developers@python.org > > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers ===================================================== Jerry Asher jerry@hollyjerry.org 1678 Shattuck Avenue Suite 161 Tel: (510) 549-2980 Berkeley, CA 94709 Fax: (877) 311-8688 From haroldp@sierraweb.com Tue Mar 13 17:49:23 2001 From: haroldp@sierraweb.com (Harold Paulson) Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 09:49:23 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] PHP wrappers? Message-ID: Hey, I was trying to wrap several of the Mailman CLI tools (list_lists and such) in a little PHP so I could easily integrate them into a larger web site. Using PHP's System() function and the backtick operator to exec the Mailman tools never seems to result in any output, but no errors either. However, I can drop a script of my own (a little Perl hack or whatever) in the ~mailman/bin directory with the same ownership and permissions, and it seems to exec just fine. Any idea what I'm overlooking? - H -- Harold Paulson Sierra Web Design haroldp@sierraweb.com http://www.sierraweb.com VOICE: 775.833.9500 FAX: 810.314.1517 From chris@greatbridge.com Tue Mar 13 18:21:56 2001 From: chris@greatbridge.com (Chris Ryan) Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 13:21:56 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] PHP wrappers? References: Message-ID: <3AAE6544.33B88A20@greatbridge.com> You may want to check for things such as PATH information as it could be that when executing the script it can't find python executable. One possible idea is try executing your command in a fasion like: system("myprogram arg1 arg2 2>&1"); This may help by showing any output that gets sent to stderr on stdout. Chris Ryan chris@greatbridge.com Harold Paulson wrote: > > Hey, > > I was trying to wrap several of the Mailman CLI tools (list_lists and > such) in a little PHP so I could easily integrate them into a larger > web site. Using PHP's System() function and the backtick operator to > exec the Mailman tools never seems to result in any output, but no > errors either. However, I can drop a script of my own (a little Perl > hack or whatever) in the ~mailman/bin directory with the same > ownership and permissions, and it seems to exec just fine. > > Any idea what I'm overlooking? > > - H > > -- > > Harold Paulson Sierra Web Design > haroldp@sierraweb.com http://www.sierraweb.com > VOICE: 775.833.9500 FAX: 810.314.1517 > > _______________________________________________ > Mailman-Developers mailing list > Mailman-Developers@python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers From chris@greatbridge.com Tue Mar 13 18:33:50 2001 From: chris@greatbridge.com (Chris Ryan) Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 13:33:50 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] DRAFT Datasource Interface v0.1 Message-ID: <3AAE680E.D935757B@greatbridge.com> All, I've written up a templatish python code of the inteface with some comments and the like. I've placed everything on the Mailman ZWiki page http://www.zope.org/Members/bwarsaw/MailmanDesignNotes/CentralizedUserDatabase at Ricardo's sugestion so that you may all read it over and comment/add/substract ?delete? :). There were a few places that I left empty in the interface but I commented about it these were The Admin/Request/Postings Response classes and the bounce_info stuff which will be located in the BounceData class. This was due to my lack of overall understanding of what these are at this time. Feel Free to fill them in following the overall flow of the rest. Once we get something that is more or less acceptable my next step will be to impliment the interface to use the existing method of data storage. Then I would start modifying the code to use the interface. Once I've got the interface implimented we should have a concreate definition and anyone should be able to write a datasource driver using the interface to access what ever source they wish to use. Chris Ryan chris@greatbridge.com From barry@digicool.com Tue Mar 13 18:37:31 2001 From: barry@digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw) Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 13:37:31 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] DRAFT Datasource Interface v0.1 References: <3AAE680E.D935757B@greatbridge.com> Message-ID: <15022.26859.347013.977507@anthem.wooz.org> Thanks Chris. My workload's a bit backed up now that IPC9 is over, so I'm not sure when I'll get a chance to review this. I'll try to take a look some time this weekend. -Barry From jarrell@vt.edu Tue Mar 13 20:02:10 2001 From: jarrell@vt.edu (Ron Jarrell) Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 15:02:10 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] PHP wrappers? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20010313150111.02cdd750@vtserf.cc.vt.edu> At 09:49 AM 3/13/01 -0800, Harold Paulson wrote: >Hey, > >I was trying to wrap several of the Mailman CLI tools (list_lists and such) in a little PHP so I could easily integrate them into a larger web site. Using PHP's System() function and the backtick operator to exec the Mailman tools never seems to result in any output, but no errors either. However, I can drop a script of my own (a little Perl hack or whatever) in the ~mailman/bin directory with the same ownership and permissions, and it seems to exec just fine. Harold, most of those commands user env to find where python is. If it's not in your web servers search path, you won't find it. The scripts you wrote probably spell out the path to perl... From room_maildev@bbs.pixel.citadel.org Tue Mar 13 21:57:24 2001 From: room_maildev@bbs.pixel.citadel.org (Patriot) Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 16:57:24 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Here's a little issue with the news gatewaying: If the n Message-ID: <318196@bbs.pixel.citadel.org> Here's a little issue with the news gatewaying: If the news server you're trying to get to is down, or is slow and having problems mailman creates a lock file and doesn't unlock. The next time (every 5 minutes in my case) the gateway attempts to run the lock files are in place and it evidently fails. Is there anything I can do to clear those lock files manually, or, more importantly, is there anyway that mailman can be configured to time out, and remove its own lockfiles/ thanks. From barry@digicool.com Tue Mar 13 22:04:44 2001 From: barry@digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw) Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 17:04:44 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Here's a little issue with the news gatewaying: If the n References: <318196@bbs.pixel.citadel.org> Message-ID: <15022.39292.637113.840278@anthem.wooz.org> >>>>> "P" == Patriot writes: P> Here's a little issue with the news gatewaying: If the news P> server you're trying to get to is down, or is slow and having P> problems mailman creates a lock file and doesn't unlock. The P> next time (every 5 minutes in my case) the gateway attempts to P> run the lock files are in place and it evidently fails. Is P> there anything I can do to clear those lock files manually, or, P> more importantly, is there anyway that mailman can be P> configured to time out, and remove its own lockfiles/ Hmm, I'm not entirely sure I believe that. cron/gate_news has a try/finally that should force the release of the global gate_news lock when any error occurs. So the news->mail path should be safe. The mail->news path is a little trickier because Mailman 2.0.x forks a child to do the delivery in that direction. The child will os._exit() without ever releasing the lock, but by the same token, no nntp exceptions should percolate to the parent, and the parent is the process owning the lock and thus making sure it gets released. Because the child process never needs to write to the MailList, it doesn't own the lock. Note that this has changed a bit in Mailman 2.1, where mail->news is implemented by a completely separate queue. Thus there are no child processes needed, and the list is never locked by this queue. gate_news hasn't changed substantially in this regard in 2.1. -Barry From room_maildev@bbs.pixel.citadel.org Tue Mar 13 22:13:11 2001 From: room_maildev@bbs.pixel.citadel.org (Patriot) Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 17:13:11 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] I'm using 2.0.1, currently, I should have mentioned that. Message-ID: <318290@bbs.pixel.citadel.org> I'm using 2.0.1, currently, I should have mentioned that. Thanks for getting back so quickly. :) What I've been seeing is this (and please note, there's not timestamp on the lockfiles that are created, only a datestamp): ~mailman/locks/gate_news.lock ~mailman/gate_news.lock.my.hostname.org.pid And then also the newsgroup lock files. Recently I've been having problems with my ISP's newsserver and all I'm seeing are the gate_news.lock files. They don't seem to go away (but I have no way of PROVING that because there's no time stamps. Sample: -rw-rw-r-- 2 mailman mailman 58 Mar 14 2001 gate_news.lock -rw-rw-r-- 2 mailman mailman 58 Mar 14 2001 gate_news.lock.my.host.org.pid However, I DID have one that was a day old, which is where I'm presuming this problem is coming from. After I removed the lock, the next time gate_news runs it imports the newsgroups (assuming the news server is up). That's about the only place where I see the problem, and like I said, removing the lockfiles makes it work the next time around. If I'm on the wrong track for debugging this let me know so I can take a look in the right place. :) From barry@digicool.com Tue Mar 13 22:21:18 2001 From: barry@digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw) Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 17:21:18 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] I'm using 2.0.1, currently, I should have mentioned that. References: <318290@bbs.pixel.citadel.org> Message-ID: <15022.40286.965604.978625@anthem.wooz.org> >>>>> "P" == Patriot writes: P> I'm using 2.0.1, currently, I should have mentioned that. P> Thanks for getting back so quickly. :) You hit me at a good time. :) P> What I've been seeing is this (and please note, there's not P> timestamp on the lockfiles that are created, only a datestamp): P> ~mailman/locks/gate_news.lock P> ~mailman/gate_news.lock.my.hostname.org.pid P> And then also the newsgroup lock files. Recently I've been P> having problems with my ISP's newsserver and all I'm seeing are P> the gate_news.lock files. They don't seem to go away (but I P> have no way of PROVING that because there's no time stamps. ls won't show you a timestamp because of the funky trick that LockFile plays with them. It actually uses an mtime in the future to indicate the expected lifetime of the lock. A bit cheesy but allows for much more atomic lifetime setting than scribbling the timestamp into the file. P> However, I DID have one that was a day old, which is where I'm P> presuming this problem is coming from. After I removed the P> lock, the next time gate_news runs it imports the newsgroups P> (assuming the news server is up). Okay, so the gate_news lock is definitely outliving the process. Note if you waited long enough (10 hours ) the lock would get broken and things would start flowing again. P> That's about the only place where I see the problem, and like P> I said, removing the lockfiles makes it work the next time P> around. If I'm on the wrong track for debugging this let me P> know so I can take a look in the right place. :) Check the logs/error file for entries that start with "gate_news". Having the traceback will be essential in figuring out what's going wrong. -Barry From room_maildev@bbs.pixel.citadel.org Tue Mar 13 22:27:11 2001 From: room_maildev@bbs.pixel.citadel.org (Patriot) Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 17:27:11 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] The error log's not showing me anything useful...nothing I Message-ID: <318364@bbs.pixel.citadel.org> The error log's not showing me anything useful...nothing I didn't already know anyhow. It shows me that the connection to my news server was refused (they were working on it). The fromusenet log: Mar 13 15:15:01 2001 (32476) Could not acquire gate_news lock There's a ton of those (every 5 minutes, ). Again, the ONLY thing I can see it could be is that the lock file didn't wipe itself because of the newsserver being crapped out. And I shoulda realized that in 10 hours it would have fixed itself. but even so I ain't that patient. :) From barry@digicool.com Tue Mar 13 22:46:23 2001 From: barry@digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw) Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 17:46:23 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] The error log's not showing me anything useful...nothing I References: <318364@bbs.pixel.citadel.org> Message-ID: <15022.41791.977018.838548@anthem.wooz.org> >>>>> "P" == Patriot writes: P> The error log's not showing me anything useful...nothing I P> didn't already know anyhow. It shows me that the connection to P> my news server was refused (they were working on it). The P> fromusenet log: P> Mar 13 15:15:01 2001 (32476) Could not acquire gate_news lock P> There's a ton of those (every 5 minutes, ). Again, the P> ONLY thing I can see it could be is that the lock file didn't P> wipe itself because of the newsserver being crapped out. And I P> shoulda realized that in 10 hours it would have fixed itself. P> but even so I ain't that patient. :) No traceback in logs/error before the stale lock starts showing up? -Barry From room_maildev@bbs.pixel.citadel.org Tue Mar 13 22:52:11 2001 From: room_maildev@bbs.pixel.citadel.org (Patriot) Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 17:52:11 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] (no subject) Message-ID: <318434@bbs.pixel.citadel.org> That's what I get each time this happens (UI have a crappy ISP.) From jra@baylink.com Tue Mar 13 22:54:30 2001 From: jra@baylink.com (Jay R. Ashworth) Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 17:54:30 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Here's a little issue with the news gatewaying: If the n In-Reply-To: <15022.39292.637113.840278@anthem.wooz.org>; from "Barry A. Warsaw" on Tue, Mar 13, 2001 at 05:04:44PM -0500 References: <318196@bbs.pixel.citadel.org> <15022.39292.637113.840278@anthem.wooz.org> Message-ID: <20010313175430.51812@scfn.thpl.lib.fl.us> On Tue, Mar 13, 2001 at 05:04:44PM -0500, Barry A. Warsaw wrote: > Note that this has changed a bit in Mailman 2.1, where mail->news is > implemented by a completely separate queue. Thus there are no child > processes needed, and the list is never locked by this queue. > gate_news hasn't changed substantially in this regard in 2.1. Barry? How far along the garden path *is* 2.1? I've just gotten shot in the head with a 1000:1 slowdown on batch adds for send a welcome vs don't... along with one or two other items. Time to bring them up? Or past...? Cheers, -- jra -- Jay R. Ashworth jra@baylink.com Member of the Technical Staff Baylink The Suncoast Freenet The Things I Think Tampa Bay, Florida http://baylink.pitas.com +1 727 804 5015 From barry@digicool.com Tue Mar 13 23:24:04 2001 From: barry@digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw) Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 18:24:04 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Here's a little issue with the news gatewaying: If the n References: <318196@bbs.pixel.citadel.org> <15022.39292.637113.840278@anthem.wooz.org> <20010313175430.51812@scfn.thpl.lib.fl.us> Message-ID: <15022.44052.277026.853903@anthem.wooz.org> >>>>> "JRA" == Jay R Ashworth writes: JRA> Barry? How far along the garden path *is* 2.1? It's in alpha, and AFAIK isn't being used by anyone except for testing purposes. In fact there have been zero downloads from SF so I wonder if you all are just ignoring it, or if everyone uses CVS. :) Still, I'm relatively confident that what's there mostly works (more confident about the new queuing stuff, less so about the i18n stuff). JRA> I've just gotten shot in the head with a 1000:1 slowdown on JRA> batch adds for send a welcome vs don't... along with one or JRA> two other items. JRA> Time to bring them up? Or past...? You can always bring them up, but the best place to record them for posterity is in the SF tracker. Put it in the feature requests tracker or bug tracker as appropriate. There's just too much chance that it'll get lost in my inbox. Or use the wiki for discussion purposes if you want. The wiki already contains what I think I can get to for 2.1. I want to try to be conservative with changes because the i18n stuff really needs to get out there. Still, I think some of the changes I've made already will help get a bunch of new features into the code base. I use the same approach for Python development -- new features are on the table until the first beta release. I'm trying to keep any changes to the underlying "database" off the table for 2.1 because I think that'll push 2.1 back too far. My best guess at the moment is that we might see a beta of 2.1 by May. I'll be concentrating on several other projects over the next few weeks though, so Mailman hacking will be a spare-time affair. There's Python 2.1 to work on, and I'm committed to working on BSDDB support for ZODB. This latter may have good side benefits for Mailman 3.0. There's also some talk about more focussed Mailman work for some clients, but I don't have much information about that at the moment. -Barry From room_maildev@bbs.pixel.citadel.org Tue Mar 13 23:35:21 2001 From: room_maildev@bbs.pixel.citadel.org (Patriot) Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 18:35:21 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] > [#318434@bbs.pixel.citadel.org] Mar 13 2001 5:51pm from P Message-ID: <318468@bbs.pixel.citadel.org> > [#318434@bbs.pixel.citadel.org] Mar 13 2001 5:51pm from Patriot @pixel > That's what I get each time this happens (UI have a crappy ISP.) > > > Hmm. Apparently my cut and paste went horribly awry: Mar 12 17:35:00 2001 gate_news(20198): Traceback (innermost last): Mar 12 17:35:00 2001 gate_news(20198): File "/home/mailman/cron/gate_news", line 222, in ? Mar 12 17:35:00 2001 gate_news(20198): main() Mar 12 17:35:00 2001 gate_news(20198): File "/home/mailman/cron/gate_news", line 203, in main Mar 12 17:35:00 2001 gate_news(20198): process_lists(lock) Mar 12 17:35:00 2001 gate_news(20198): File "/home/mailman/cron/gate_news", line 148, in process_lists Mar 12 17:35:00 2001 gate_news(20198): conn, first, last = open_newsgroup(mlist) Mar 12 17:35:00 2001 gate_news(20198): File "/home/mailman/cron/gate_news", line 75, in open_newsgroup Mar 12 17:35:00 2001 gate_news(20198): password=mm_cfg.NNTP_PASSWORD) Mar 12 17:35:00 2001 gate_news(20198): File "/home/mailman/Mailman/pythonlib/nntplib.py", line 111, in __init__ Mar 12 17:35:00 2001 gate_news(20198): self.sock.connect((self.host, self.port)) Mar 12 17:35:00 2001 gate_news(20198): socket . error : (113, 'No route to host') From jarrell@vt.edu Tue Mar 13 23:52:30 2001 From: jarrell@vt.edu (Ron Jarrell) Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 18:52:30 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Here's a little issue with the news gatewaying: If the n In-Reply-To: <15022.44052.277026.853903@anthem.wooz.org> References: <318196@bbs.pixel.citadel.org> <15022.39292.637113.840278@anthem.wooz.org> <20010313175430.51812@scfn.thpl.lib.fl.us> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20010313185038.03f34e00@vtserf.cc.vt.edu> At 06:24 PM 3/13/01 -0500, you wrote: >>>>>> "JRA" == Jay R Ashworth writes: > > JRA> Barry? How far along the garden path *is* 2.1? > >It's in alpha, and AFAIK isn't being used by anyone except for testing >purposes. In fact there have been zero downloads from SF so I wonder >if you all are just ignoring it, or if everyone uses CVS. :) I know I work off the CVS tree, although I haven't had a chance to look at my changes vs. your changes to see if you missed anything out of what I fixed in the last go round... I never bother downloading anything from SF, since my tree is usually current. From jra@baylink.com Wed Mar 14 03:54:57 2001 From: jra@baylink.com (Jay R. Ashworth) Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 22:54:57 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Here's a little issue with the news gatewaying: If the n In-Reply-To: <15022.44052.277026.853903@anthem.wooz.org>; from "Barry A. Warsaw" on Tue, Mar 13, 2001 at 06:24:04PM -0500 References: <318196@bbs.pixel.citadel.org> <15022.39292.637113.840278@anthem.wooz.org> <20010313175430.51812@scfn.thpl.lib.fl.us> <15022.44052.277026.853903@anthem.wooz.org> Message-ID: <20010313225457.39716@scfn.thpl.lib.fl.us> On Tue, Mar 13, 2001 at 06:24:04PM -0500, Barry A. Warsaw wrote: > >>>>> "JRA" == Jay R Ashworth writes: > JRA> Barry? How far along the garden path *is* 2.1? > > It's in alpha, and AFAIK isn't being used by anyone except for testing > purposes. In fact there have been zero downloads from SF so I wonder > if you all are just ignoring it, or if everyone uses CVS. :) > > Still, I'm relatively confident that what's there mostly works (more > confident about the new queuing stuff, less so about the i18n stuff). Got it. I presume SF has release notes, as they're built, too? > JRA> I've just gotten shot in the head with a 1000:1 slowdown on > JRA> batch adds for send a welcome vs don't... along with one or > JRA> two other items. > JRA> Time to bring them up? Or past...? > > You can always bring them up, but the best place to record them for > posterity is in the SF tracker. Put it in the feature requests > tracker or bug tracker as appropriate. There's just too much chance > that it'll get lost in my inbox. Noted. > Or use the wiki for discussion purposes if you want. The wiki already > contains what I think I can get to for 2.1. I want to try to be > conservative with changes because the i18n stuff really needs to get > out there. Still, I think some of the changes I've made already will > help get a bunch of new features into the code base. Got it. Well, the code base is pretty clean looking, at least the parts I've gotten into, even if my understanding of python is not. Any internals doco written yet? Is their a second tier of hackers following the list? And will Python 2 finally get around to showing not only the call but the *values* in tracebacks? :-) Cheers, -- jra -- Jay R. Ashworth jra@baylink.com Member of the Technical Staff Baylink The Suncoast Freenet The Things I Think Tampa Bay, Florida http://baylink.pitas.com +1 727 804 5015 From barry@digicool.com Wed Mar 14 05:20:16 2001 From: barry@digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw) Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 00:20:16 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Here's a little issue with the news gatewaying: If the n References: <318196@bbs.pixel.citadel.org> <15022.39292.637113.840278@anthem.wooz.org> <20010313175430.51812@scfn.thpl.lib.fl.us> <15022.44052.277026.853903@anthem.wooz.org> <20010313225457.39716@scfn.thpl.lib.fl.us> Message-ID: <15022.65424.707104.510698@anthem.wooz.org> >>>>> "JRA" == Jay R Ashworth writes: JRA> Got it. I presume SF has release notes, as they're built, JRA> too? There's moderate release notes in the files view, and of course I try to keep the NEWS file up-to-date, at least with the gross user visible changes. As Thomas can tell you, I'm pretty anal about check-in messages, so when in doubt, cvs log is your best friend. :) >> Or use the wiki for discussion purposes if you want. The wiki >> already contains what I think I can get to for 2.1. I want to >> try to be conservative with changes because the i18n stuff >> really needs to get out there. Still, I think some of the >> changes I've made already will help get a bunch of new features >> into the code base. JRA> Got it. Well, the code base is pretty clean looking, at JRA> least the parts I've gotten into, even if my understanding of JRA> python is not. Thanks! I recently read Richard Gabriel's book and while it was kind of inconsistent, the part I really liked is the idea that code should be habitable. As I concentrate on and rewrite various parts of the code base, I try to keep that in mind. JRA> Any internals doco written yet? Is their a second tier of JRA> hackers following the list? Thomas? :) JRA> And will Python 2 finally get around to showing not only the JRA> call but the *values* in tracebacks? :-) Oh man, you should have seen Ka-Ping Yee's cgi driver thingie. Among the /many/ cool things he demoed at IPC9 (and it seemed like he demoed a new cool thing every day) was a cgi driver much like Mailman's driver, but which provided an awesome traceback view with values, and probably more. I'm Cc'ing him because I doubt he's on this list. I'm hoping I can prod him into talking more about it. :) It'd be way cool to adopt either for Python itself or for non-stealthy Mailman tracebacks. -Barry From ricardo@rixhq.nu Wed Mar 14 07:10:25 2001 From: ricardo@rixhq.nu (Ricardo Kustner) Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 08:10:25 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] DRAFT Datasource Interface v0.1 In-Reply-To: <3AAE680E.D935757B@greatbridge.com>; from chris@greatbridge.com on Tue, Mar 13, 2001 at 01:33:50PM -0500 References: <3AAE680E.D935757B@greatbridge.com> Message-ID: <20010314081025.A14725@rix.rixhq.nu> Hi, First of all, a disclaimer :) I'm not a core mailman developer but I'm interested in helping out with this and I (think I) know a bit about the internal workings as I've been following mailman development for a while now... On Tue, Mar 13, 2001 at 01:33:50PM -0500, Chris Ryan wrote: > http://www.zope.org/Members/bwarsaw/MailmanDesignNotes/CentralizedUserDatabase > at Ricardo's sugestion so that you may all read it over and > comment/add/substract ?delete? :). Looks great ! I'd also suggest using ZWiki's feature to create subpages and/or subsections on the same page; If we get one long page with information it could get a bit hard to follow. For example you could divide it into the phases you wrote about earlier. > Once we get something that is more or less acceptable my next step will > be to impliment the interface to use the existing method of data > storage. Then I would start modifying the code to use the interface. > Once I've got the interface implimented we should have a concreate > definition and anyone should be able to write a datasource driver using > the interface to access what ever source they wish to use. That's were I definately want to step in... I could work on a mysql driver. Anyway, I also wanted to comment a bit on the draft you wrote: - I see you created seperate functions for a lot of related things, like getting a list of subscribers and digest subscribers, or both. Is there a specific reason for that? To me it looks like it might generate some duplicated code... what are you thoughts on how to handle code re-use? same goes for getting the flags for a member. Maybe it's something you already thought about, but I just wanted to point it out just to be sure. - At some points mailman might need to find a specific list of subscribers... though it's possible to load the entire list into memory with listMembers() and work on that with python code, I think it would be nice for peformance reasons to be able to use sql queries in the backend so maybe that's something we should keep in mind when defining the functions. -- Regards, Ricardo From magnus@solvang.net Wed Mar 14 15:22:42 2001 From: magnus@solvang.net (Magnus Solvang) Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 16:22:42 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Problems with "make install" Message-ID: <20010314162242.N31798@boss.office.skiinfo.no> I'm trying to setup Mailman on a Linux machine, and have installed Python 1.6.1 for this purpose. In other words, I'm new to both. Anyway, "configure" (and "make") looks good, but "make install" fails. Can anybody guide me through this problem? I have searched for clues via google.com, but have not come up with anything similar (at least not in this part of the process). I guess this is a problem with my Python-installation, but I would appreciate any hints on how to fix this. - M mailman-2.0.1]$ export PYTHONPATH=/usr/local/lib/python1.6 mailman-2.0.1]$ ./configure --with-python=/usr/local/bin/python1.6 \ --with-mail-uid=mailman --with-cgi-uid=nobody \ --with-python=/usr/local/bin/python1.6 [...] mailman-2.0.1]# make install [...] Listing /home/mailman/Mailman/pythonlib ... Compiling /home/mailman/Mailman/pythonlib/StringIO.py ... Compiling /home/mailman/Mailman/pythonlib/__init__.py ... Compiling /home/mailman/Mailman/pythonlib/cgi.py ... Compiling /home/mailman/Mailman/pythonlib/nntplib.py ... Compiling /home/mailman/Mailman/pythonlib/rfc822.py ... Compiling /home/mailman/Mailman/pythonlib/smtplib.py ... Compiling /home/mailman/Mailman/pythonlib/tempfile.py ... Compiling /home/mailman/Mailman/versions.py ... Traceback (innermost last): File "bin/update", line 25, in ? import os File "/usr/local/lib/python1.6/os.py", line 38, in ? import posixpath File "/usr/local/lib/python1.6/posixpath.py", line 319 _varprog = re.compile(r'\$(\w+|\{[^}]*\})') ^ SyntaxError: invalid syntax From chris@greatbridge.com Wed Mar 14 15:42:39 2001 From: chris@greatbridge.com (Chris Ryan) Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 10:42:39 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] DRAFT Datasource Interface v0.1 References: <3AAE680E.D935757B@greatbridge.com> <20010314081025.A14725@rix.rixhq.nu> Message-ID: <3AAF916F.DB4430EC@greatbridge.com> Comments within: Ricardo Kustner wrote: > > Hi, > > First of all, a disclaimer :) I'm not a core mailman developer but > I'm interested in helping out with this and I (think I) know a bit about the > internal workings as I've been following mailman development for a while now... > > On Tue, Mar 13, 2001 at 01:33:50PM -0500, Chris Ryan wrote: > > http://www.zope.org/Members/bwarsaw/MailmanDesignNotes/CentralizedUserDatabase > > at Ricardo's sugestion so that you may all read it over and > > comment/add/substract ?delete? :). > > Looks great ! I'd also suggest using ZWiki's feature to create subpages and/or > subsections on the same page; If we get one long page with information > it could get a bit hard to follow. For example you could divide it into > the phases you wrote about earlier. > I'm just now starting to use the ZWiki source so I must apologize for the lack of organizational zest. I will play around with it some later and see about breaking it up. > > Once we get something that is more or less acceptable my next step will > > be to impliment the interface to use the existing method of data > > storage. Then I would start modifying the code to use the interface. > > Once I've got the interface implimented we should have a concreate > > definition and anyone should be able to write a datasource driver using > > the interface to access what ever source they wish to use. > That's were I definately want to step in... I could work on a mysql driver. > This would be great. I will be working on PostgreSQL myself. Perhaps the two of us could design a table structure that will work for both PostgreSQL and MySQL allowing users to switch easier between the two. > Anyway, I also wanted to comment a bit on the draft you wrote: > - I see you created seperate functions for a lot of related things, > like getting a list of subscribers and digest subscribers, or both. Is there > a specific reason for that? To me it looks like it might generate some > duplicated code... what are you thoughts on how to handle code re-use? > same goes for getting the flags for a member. Maybe it's something you > already thought about, but I just wanted to point it out just to be sure. Let me start by saying that originally I had several member function for each option before I consolidated them into overloaded methods. I know there are a few that I missed or for a lack of understanding chose to ignore. For instances such as listMembers(), listNormalMembers() and listDigestMembers() I was trying to provide simple methods to accessing the data. As for the member flag methods I chose to do those as separate methods to allow flexibility (for the driver developer) and ease of use (to the interface user). I am open to any suggestions that simplify the overall interface and still allows Mailman to perform it's functions. To Specifically address the code reuse aspect. My goal in this design is to provide a clean interface for mailman to use. It would be up to the developer to implement this interface in the most code efficient manner. > - At some points mailman might need to find a specific list of > subscribers... though it's possible to load the entire list into memory > with listMembers() and work on that with python code, I think it would be nice for > peformance reasons to be able to use sql queries in the backend so maybe that's > something we should keep in mind when defining the functions. The only problem with this is it is possible that not all implementations will store data in the same manner which makes it difficult to add in such methods. That is why I tried to define all the methods so that they each perform specific tasks with specific results. Probably the best thing to do in a situation like this is to determine the specific need of Mailman then add a method into the interface that performs the desired task. Example: Task: find all users on a list that are in a domain Result: a list of users by key that match a domain Definition: MemberData.listMemebersInDomain(domain) It would be up to the Interface driver developer to determine how this gets done. I am not opposed to adding such methods if they are used, especially to speed up performance. Chris Ryan chris@greatbridge.com From haroldp@sierraweb.com Wed Mar 14 18:04:47 2001 From: haroldp@sierraweb.com (Harold Paulson) Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 10:04:47 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] PHP wrappers? In-Reply-To: <3AAE6544.33B88A20@greatbridge.com> References: <3AAE6544.33B88A20@greatbridge.com> Message-ID: Good suggestions, >You may want to check for things such as PATH information as it could be >that when executing the script it can't find python executable. One $PATH did include the directory where the python bin was stored, and actually specifying a full path like: `/usr/local/bin/python /home/mailman/bin/list_lists` still doesn't give me any output. >possible idea is try executing your command in a fasion like: > > system("myprogram arg1 arg2 2>&1"); > >This may help by showing any output that gets sent to stderr on stdout. Even better suggestion! This gives me: Traceback (most recent call last): File "/usr/local/mailman/bin/list_lists", line 108, in ? main() File "/usr/local/mailman/bin/list_lists", line 86, in main mlist = MailList.MailList(n, lock=0) File "../Mailman/MailList.py", line 79, in __init__ File "../Mailman/MailList.py", line 879, in Load File "../Mailman/MailList.py", line 856, in __load IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied: '/usr/local/mailman/lists/myfirstlist/config.db' Which makes sense. The config.db file is 660 root.mailman. I guess that is why all the mailman CGIs run with setgid mailman. I guess that leaves me at an impasse. I probably shouldn't give the web server elevated permissions for my little hacks. Thanks for your help in any case. - H >Chris Ryan >chris@greatbridge.com > >Harold Paulson wrote: >> >> Hey, >> >> I was trying to wrap several of the Mailman CLI tools (list_lists and >> such) in a little PHP so I could easily integrate them into a larger >> web site. Using PHP's System() function and the backtick operator to >> exec the Mailman tools never seems to result in any output, but no >> errors either. However, I can drop a script of my own (a little Perl >> hack or whatever) in the ~mailman/bin directory with the same >> ownership and permissions, and it seems to exec just fine. >> >> Any idea what I'm overlooking? >> >> - H >> >> -- >> >> Harold Paulson Sierra Web Design >> haroldp@sierraweb.com http://www.sierraweb.com >> VOICE: 775.833.9500 FAX: 810.314.1517 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Mailman-Developers mailing list >> Mailman-Developers@python.org >> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers -- Harold Paulson Sierra Web Design haroldp@sierraweb.com http://www.sierraweb.com VOICE: 775.833.9500 FAX: 810.314.1517 From jarrell@vt.edu Wed Mar 14 20:08:12 2001 From: jarrell@vt.edu (Ron Jarrell) Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 15:08:12 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] PHP wrappers? In-Reply-To: References: <3AAE6544.33B88A20@greatbridge.com> <3AAE6544.33B88A20@greatbridge.com> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20010314150725.02e33640@vtserf.cc.vt.edu> At 10:04 AM 3/14/01 -0800, Harold Paulson wrote: >IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied: '/usr/local/mailman/lists/myfirstlist/config.db' > >Which makes sense. The config.db file is 660 root.mailman. I guess that is why all the mailman CGIs run with setgid mailman. I guess that leaves me at an impasse. I probably shouldn't give the web server elevated permissions for my little hacks. Add your www user to the mailman group... From dan.mick@west.sun.com Wed Mar 14 21:26:43 2001 From: dan.mick@west.sun.com (Dan Mick) Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 13:26:43 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Wiki maintenance: bad link Message-ID: <3AAFE213.4FDA4FF@west.sun.com> Browsing the Wiki for the first time in a while, I see there's content there. I was interested in Future of Pipermail, Bill Bumgarner's patch; so I looked at the patch and was mystified; then I tried to go to the description and it was a bad link. Seeing no "comments/bugs to this mailto link" link on the page: http://www.zope.org/Members/bwarsaw/MailmanDesignNotes/FutureOfPipermail and no "owner" listed on the page above it: http://www.zope.org/Members/bwarsaw/MailmanDesignNotes/RecentChanges ...I appeal here for help. From thomas@xs4all.net Thu Mar 15 09:27:30 2001 From: thomas@xs4all.net (Thomas Wouters) Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 10:27:30 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] PHP wrappers? In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.20010314150725.02e33640@vtserf.cc.vt.edu>; from jarrell@vt.edu on Wed, Mar 14, 2001 at 03:08:12PM -0500 References: <3AAE6544.33B88A20@greatbridge.com> <3AAE6544.33B88A20@greatbridge.com> <5.0.2.1.2.20010314150725.02e33640@vtserf.cc.vt.edu> Message-ID: <20010315102729.G404@xs4all.nl> On Wed, Mar 14, 2001 at 03:08:12PM -0500, Ron Jarrell wrote: > At 10:04 AM 3/14/01 -0800, Harold Paulson wrote: > > >IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied: '/usr/local/mailman/lists/myfirstlist/config.db' > > > >Which makes sense. The config.db file is 660 root.mailman. I guess that is why all the mailman CGIs run with setgid mailman. I guess that leaves me at an impasse. I probably shouldn't give the web server elevated permissions for my little hacks. > Add your www user to the mailman group... You should *not* do that. That gives the normal webserver way too much permissions. You should just use a setuid mailman wrapper script that does caller-checking to see if it's called correctly, by the right user, and with 'safe' values. -- Thomas Wouters Hi! I'm a .signature virus! copy me into your .signature file to help me spread! From thomas@xs4all.net Thu Mar 15 09:32:38 2001 From: thomas@xs4all.net (Thomas Wouters) Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 10:32:38 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] mailman and the web In-Reply-To: <4.2.2.20010313091845.00d26e30@hollyjerry.org>; from jerry@hollyjerry.org on Tue, Mar 13, 2001 at 09:23:28AM -0800 References: <4.2.2.20010312193934.00d10170@hollyjerry.org> <3AAE55F0.6A8A2F65@greatbridge.com> <4.2.2.20010313091845.00d26e30@hollyjerry.org> Message-ID: <20010315103238.H404@xs4all.nl> On Tue, Mar 13, 2001 at 09:23:28AM -0800, Jerry Asher wrote: > When you write, > >Phase 3: Develop Php front-end for Archives/Admin utils > That makes me curious. I know Tcl (and C, LISP, etc.) but not Python or > PHP. One reason for undertaking this project was to give me something > "real" to focus on while learning Python. My understanding was that Python > and PHP are somewhat competing technologies. Mailman is a Python tool > right? What makes you choose Php for front-end development? PHP and Python aren't as competing with each other as Python and Tcl are :-) Seriously, though, I personally detest PHP. I've done a fair lot in it, and I hate it for a number of reasons, one of the more important ones being security (or lack thereof.) Python is a much, much easier language to program in, even for Web/CGI stuff, and if you are going to execute Python in the back anyway, it's not that much faster. -- Thomas Wouters Hi! I'm a .signature virus! copy me into your .signature file to help me spread! From magnus@solvang.net Thu Mar 15 09:34:06 2001 From: magnus@solvang.net (Magnus Solvang) Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 10:34:06 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Problems with "make install" In-Reply-To: <3AAFE08D.6614E6A8@west.sun.com>; from dan.mick@west.sun.com on ons, mar 14, 2001 at 01:20:13 -0800 References: <20010314162242.N31798@boss.office.skiinfo.no> <3AAFE08D.6614E6A8@west.sun.com> Message-ID: <20010315103406.E7153@boss.office.skiinfo.no> Someone wrote in email: | Dunno. I've used Python 1.5.2 and Python 2.0, and not seen this; | maybe 1.6.1 was broken. | | Python itself is pretty easy to build from source. I did build Python from source just before installing Mailman, and the installation was flawless. The machine in question is an old Red Hat installation, with several old versions of Python on it, but as long as I set the PYTHONPATH to the new version and set --with-python to point at the new python-binary, this should be enough, right? - M (who hopes he can move to mailman-users soon :) From thomas@xs4all.net Thu Mar 15 09:53:48 2001 From: thomas@xs4all.net (Thomas Wouters) Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 10:53:48 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Here's a little issue with the news gatewaying: If the n In-Reply-To: <15022.65424.707104.510698@anthem.wooz.org>; from barry@digicool.com on Wed, Mar 14, 2001 at 12:20:16AM -0500 References: <318196@bbs.pixel.citadel.org> <15022.39292.637113.840278@anthem.wooz.org> <20010313175430.51812@scfn.thpl.lib.fl.us> <15022.44052.277026.853903@anthem.wooz.org> <20010313225457.39716@scfn.thpl.lib.fl.us> <15022.65424.707104.510698@anthem.wooz.org> Message-ID: <20010315105347.I404@xs4all.nl> On Wed, Mar 14, 2001 at 12:20:16AM -0500, Barry A. Warsaw wrote: > As Thomas can tell you, I'm pretty anal about check-in messages, so when > in doubt, cvs log is your best friend. :) 'Anal' is the right word! I transgressed once, I'll be sure to never do it again :) > JRA> Well, the code base is pretty clean looking, at > JRA> least the parts I've gotten into, even if my understanding of > JRA> python is not. Note that Python is the easiest langauge in the world. Did you read the tutorial yet ? If you're already familiar with programming in some other language, it's easy to get into, and will teach you everything about the language itself. Most of the rest you'll want to learn eventually is library docs, but you can browse those on an as-needed basis. > JRA> Any internals doco written yet? Is their a second tier of > JRA> hackers following the list? > Thomas? :) I guess I count as a second tier :) I haven't written any documentation yet, because most of the code is well commented, or easy to follow. (But then again, Barry and I share some common ground there, both being python developers. I might just be used to his (possibly adopted) code style :) If I had time, I could probably write up some documentation... but if I had time, I could fix a ton of bugs and misfeatures, too ;-P > JRA> And will Python 2 finally get around to showing not only the > JRA> call but the *values* in tracebacks? :-) > Oh man, you should have seen Ka-Ping Yee's cgi driver thingie. You can see Dr. Mad Ping's cgitb.py module in action at http://www.lfw.org/python. There's been talk (at a lunchtable at IPC9, so it is very likely to happen ;) about adding a plaintext version to the std. Python library for use with normal scripts. I'm definately for it :) -- Thomas Wouters Hi! I'm a .signature virus! copy me into your .signature file to help me spread! From thomas@xs4all.net Thu Mar 15 10:02:15 2001 From: thomas@xs4all.net (Thomas Wouters) Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 11:02:15 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Problems with "make install" In-Reply-To: <20010314162242.N31798@boss.office.skiinfo.no>; from magnus@solvang.net on Wed, Mar 14, 2001 at 04:22:42PM +0100 References: <20010314162242.N31798@boss.office.skiinfo.no> Message-ID: <20010315110215.K404@xs4all.nl> On Wed, Mar 14, 2001 at 04:22:42PM +0100, Magnus Solvang wrote: > I'm trying to setup Mailman on a Linux machine, and have installed > Python 1.6.1 for this purpose. In other words, I'm new to both. > Anyway, "configure" (and "make") looks good, but "make install" > fails. Why did you take 1.6.1, and not 2.0, btw ? 2.0 contains a lot of bugfixes to 1.6. I don't *know* that it fixes this problem, but it might :) > Can anybody guide me through this problem? I have searched for clues > via google.com, but have not come up with anything similar (at least > not in this part of the process). > I guess this is a problem with my Python-installation, but I would > appreciate any hints on how to fix this. It looks like a problem with the python installation... What did you set PYTHONPATH to ? What version does 'python' report when you start it up ? It *looks* like you started a very old version of python (one that doesn't have raw string support) with a PYTHONPATH that points to the 1.6 library tree. Can you check that PYTHON is set to the right python binary in the Makefile ? > mailman-2.0.1]$ export PYTHONPATH=/usr/local/lib/python1.6 > mailman-2.0.1]$ ./configure --with-python=/usr/local/bin/python1.6 \ > --with-mail-uid=mailman --with-cgi-uid=nobody \ > --with-python=/usr/local/bin/python1.6 > [...] > > mailman-2.0.1]# make install > [...] > Listing /home/mailman/Mailman/pythonlib ... > Compiling /home/mailman/Mailman/versions.py ... > Traceback (innermost last): > File "bin/update", line 25, in ? > import os > File "/usr/local/lib/python1.6/os.py", line 38, in ? > import posixpath > File "/usr/local/lib/python1.6/posixpath.py", line 319 > _varprog = re.compile(r'\$(\w+|\{[^}]*\})') > ^ > SyntaxError: invalid syntax -- Thomas Wouters Hi! I'm a .signature virus! copy me into your .signature file to help me spread! From magnus@skiinfo.no Thu Mar 15 10:54:14 2001 From: magnus@skiinfo.no (Magnus Solvang) Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 11:54:14 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Problems with "make install" (fixed) In-Reply-To: <20010315103406.E7153@boss.office.skiinfo.no>; from magnus@solvang.net on tor, mar 15, 2001 at 10:34:06 +0100 References: <20010314162242.N31798@boss.office.skiinfo.no> <3AAFE08D.6614E6A8@west.sun.com> <20010315103406.E7153@boss.office.skiinfo.no> Message-ID: <20010315115414.L7153@boss.office.skiinfo.no> Quoting Magnus Solvang (magnus@solvang.net): [...] | | Dunno. I've used Python 1.5.2 and Python 2.0, and not seen this; | | maybe 1.6.1 was broken. | | | | Python itself is pretty easy to build from source. | | I did build Python from source just before installing Mailman, and | the installation was flawless. [...] Sorry about replying to my own post, but I just wanted to say that I managed to compile Mailman with Python 2.0, so I'll be off your back now. Thanks for the help! :) - M From chris@greatbridge.com Thu Mar 15 14:07:16 2001 From: chris@greatbridge.com (Chris Ryan) Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 09:07:16 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Mailman + DB: Snag Message-ID: <3AB0CC94.A798EDF1@greatbridge.com> As a test I implemented a basic interface driver with mailman that loaded the config.db and implemented the internalName() and realName() methods. Everything worked fine which was good except one thing. The way the admin.py update the attributes does not work with the interface driver. I'm trying to find a reasonable solution that would allow the current code to work as it stands without having to overhaul the entire web interface update code. One possible solution that I can think of is to replace the getattr() setattr() methods that are currently used with a similar function that would instead use a switched case on the variable to know which attribute the get/set. for example: Current method: property = 'real_name' value = getattr(mlist,property,'some default') setattr(mlist,property, value) New method (concept): property = 'real_name' value = mlist.getProperty(property,'some default') mlist.setProperty(property, value) def MailList.getProperty(self, property, default=None) if property == 'real_name': return self.list_data.realName() elif property == '...': elif property == '...': else: if default: return default else: raise AttributeError I'll have to look through the python documentation to see if there is a way to dynamically call a method as that would further simplify the above. Does this sound reasonable? Or is there a better way to deal with this problem? Chris Ryan chris@greatbridge.org From jra@baylink.com Thu Mar 15 16:29:26 2001 From: jra@baylink.com (Jay R. Ashworth) Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 11:29:26 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Here's a little issue with the news gatewaying: If the n In-Reply-To: <20010315105347.I404@xs4all.nl>; from Thomas Wouters on Thu, Mar 15, 2001 at 10:53:48AM +0100 References: <318196@bbs.pixel.citadel.org> <15022.39292.637113.840278@anthem.wooz.org> <20010313175430.51812@scfn.thpl.lib.fl.us> <15022.44052.277026.853903@anthem.wooz.org> <20010313225457.39716@scfn.thpl.lib.fl.us> <15022.65424.707104.510698@anthem.wooz.org> <20010315105347.I404@xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <20010315112926.00539@scfn.thpl.lib.fl.us> On Thu, Mar 15, 2001 at 10:53:48AM +0100, Thomas Wouters wrote: > > JRA> Well, the code base is pretty clean looking, at > > JRA> least the parts I've gotten into, even if my understanding of > > JRA> python is not. > > Note that Python is the easiest langauge in the world. Did you read the > tutorial yet ? If you're already familiar with programming in some other > language, it's easy to get into, and will teach you everything about the > language itself. Most of the rest you'll want to learn eventually is library > docs, but you can browse those on an as-needed basis. Well, you can code python like C, or you can code it like python, just like perl 5. If it's coded like C, which much of this package is, I can follow it. > > JRA> Any internals doco written yet? Is their a second tier of > > JRA> hackers following the list? > > Thomas? :) > I guess I count as a second tier :) I haven't written any documentation yet, > because most of the code is well commented, or easy to follow. (But then > again, Barry and I share some common ground there, both being python > developers. I might just be used to his (possibly adopted) code style :) > If I had time, I could probably write up some documentation... but if I had > time, I could fix a ton of bugs and misfeatures, too ;-P Noted. Well, I'll be digging anyway; I'll drop breadcrumbs. > > JRA> And will Python 2 finally get around to showing not only the > > JRA> call but the *values* in tracebacks? :-) > > > Oh man, you should have seen Ka-Ping Yee's cgi driver thingie. > > You can see Dr. Mad Ping's cgitb.py module in action at > http://www.lfw.org/python. There's been talk (at a lunchtable at IPC9, so it > is very likely to happen ;) about adding a plaintext version to the std. > Python library for use with normal scripts. I'm definately for it :) Cool. That Would Be Good. Cheers, -- jra -- Jay R. Ashworth jra@baylink.com Member of the Technical Staff Baylink The Suncoast Freenet The Things I Think Tampa Bay, Florida http://baylink.pitas.com +1 727 804 5015 From thomas@xs4all.net Thu Mar 15 23:16:58 2001 From: thomas@xs4all.net (Thomas Wouters) Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 00:16:58 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Here's a little issue with the news gatewaying: If the n In-Reply-To: <20010315112926.00539@scfn.thpl.lib.fl.us>; from jra@baylink.com on Thu, Mar 15, 2001 at 11:29:26AM -0500 References: <318196@bbs.pixel.citadel.org> <15022.39292.637113.840278@anthem.wooz.org> <20010313175430.51812@scfn.thpl.lib.fl.us> <15022.44052.277026.853903@anthem.wooz.org> <20010313225457.39716@scfn.thpl.lib.fl.us> <15022.65424.707104.510698@anthem.wooz.org> <20010315105347.I404@xs4all.nl> <20010315112926.00539@scfn.thpl.lib.fl.us> Message-ID: <20010316001658.E29286@xs4all.nl> [ Apologies for the off-topicness, but Python can't be *totally* off topic, not on this mailinglist, can it ? :) ] On Thu, Mar 15, 2001 at 11:29:26AM -0500, Jay R. Ashworth wrote: > > Note that Python is the easiest langauge in the world. Did you read the > > tutorial yet ? If you're already familiar with programming in some other > > language, it's easy to get into, and will teach you everything about the > > language itself. Most of the rest you'll want to learn eventually is library > > docs, but you can browse those on an as-needed basis. > Well, you can code python like C, or you can code it like python, just > like perl 5. If it's coded like C, which much of this package is, I > can follow it. Actually, Mailman is written in pretty standard Python. Pipermail is probably an example of the word's worst Python code, but the rest is pretty simple :) It might reflect a bit of C style because Barry does a fair bit of C coding, but Barry also used to do a lot of Java coding (or pretend to, anyway, on JPython :) so I'm not sure if that's true. Python isn't like Perl, you can't write it in *that* many different ways :) Usually just in one, even. Even pipermail is fairly standard python code, if you refactor some of the functions and fix the whitespace usage. -- Thomas Wouters Hi! I'm a .signature virus! copy me into your .signature file to help me spread! From jra@baylink.com Fri Mar 16 03:10:14 2001 From: jra@baylink.com (Jay R. Ashworth) Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 22:10:14 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Here's a little issue with the news gatewaying: If the n In-Reply-To: <20010316001658.E29286@xs4all.nl>; from Thomas Wouters on Fri, Mar 16, 2001 at 12:16:58AM +0100 References: <318196@bbs.pixel.citadel.org> <15022.39292.637113.840278@anthem.wooz.org> <20010313175430.51812@scfn.thpl.lib.fl.us> <15022.44052.277026.853903@anthem.wooz.org> <20010313225457.39716@scfn.thpl.lib.fl.us> <15022.65424.707104.510698@anthem.wooz.org> <20010315105347.I404@xs4all.nl> <20010315112926.00539@scfn.thpl.lib.fl.us> <20010316001658.E29286@xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <20010315221014.38411@scfn.thpl.lib.fl.us> On Fri, Mar 16, 2001 at 12:16:58AM +0100, Thomas Wouters wrote: > [ Apologies for the off-topicness, but Python can't be *totally* off topic, > not on this mailinglist, can it ? :) ] I shouldn't think so... and it's not like this list has been swamped with traffic... I *still* haven't gotten an answer to *my* first question, asked last Friday... :-} > On Thu, Mar 15, 2001 at 11:29:26AM -0500, Jay R. Ashworth wrote: > > > Note that Python is the easiest langauge in the world. Did > > > you read the tutorial yet ? If you're already familiar with > > > programming in some other language, it's easy to get into, and > > > will teach you everything about the language itself. Most of the > > > rest you'll want to learn eventually is library docs, but you can > > > browse those on an as-needed basis. > > Well, you can code python like C, or you can code it like python, just > > like perl 5. If it's coded like C, which much of this package is, I > > can follow it. > > Actually, Mailman is written in pretty standard Python. Pipermail is > probably an example of the word's worst Python code, but the rest is > pretty simple :) It might reflect a bit of C style because Barry does > a fair bit of C coding, but Barry also used to do a lot of Java coding > (or pretend to, anyway, on JPython :) so I'm not sure if that's true. > Python isn't like Perl, you can't write it in *that* many different > ways :) Well, no, but you can swim in the Object Orientation, or you can tiptoe through it, and the code I've looked at doesn't look to horribly deep to me. Except make_whatever in Utils; how do you get a hard newline in that damned routine? The template stuff is one of the weak spots in system operator documentation... and the templates could us a touch of work, too -- no offence to whomever's writing that is... > Hi! I'm a .signature virus! copy me into your .signature file to help > me spread! I like the Amish virus better... Cheers, -- jra -- Jay R. Ashworth jra@baylink.com Member of the Technical Staff Baylink The Suncoast Freenet The Things I Think Tampa Bay, Florida http://baylink.pitas.com +1 727 804 5015 From barry@digicool.com Fri Mar 16 04:59:59 2001 From: barry@digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw) Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 23:59:59 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Here's a little issue with the news gatewaying: If the n References: <318196@bbs.pixel.citadel.org> <15022.39292.637113.840278@anthem.wooz.org> <20010313175430.51812@scfn.thpl.lib.fl.us> <15022.44052.277026.853903@anthem.wooz.org> <20010313225457.39716@scfn.thpl.lib.fl.us> <15022.65424.707104.510698@anthem.wooz.org> <20010315105347.I404@xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <15025.40399.330245.146192@anthem.wooz.org> >>>>> "TW" == Thomas Wouters writes: TW> 'Anal' is the right word! I transgressed once, I'll be sure to TW> never do it again :) >> JRA> Any internals doco written yet? Is their a second tier of >> JRA> hackers following the list? >> Thomas? :) TW> I guess I count as a second tier :) Yeah, but it'll only take you a couple of days to reach the top tier and pass us all, if you haven't already. (Bloating Thomas's head so he'll take on the rewrite of the archiver, heh, heh. :) TW> I might just be used to his (possibly adopted) code style :) All (good) Python coding styles derive from Guido's, naturally, and the beautify of Python is that there isn't a /whole/ lot of room for deviation (of any consequence). Does this stiffle creativity in Python programmers? Absolutely not, IMO. What it does is enforce a structure so that the creativity blossoms in the important dimensions. I used to maintain the C++ editing mode for Emacs, and the depths of, er, creativity in coding styles there was obnoxious. Guido recognized that code is read orders of magnitude more often than it is written, and Python encourages a community standard so that almost everyone can read almost everyone else's code. It's a wonderful breath of fresh air because Python becomes like a hammer in your hands -- almost invisible, an extension of your body. The tool disappears and you are left with just the task at hand. Still, I have my own minor deviations from Guido's style, and I think it's important to maintain consistency within a module, and within an application. That's why != is better than <> in the standard library, but not in Mailman code. :) [Aside: A fun thing to do for IPC 10 would be to grab representative code samples from a wide range of prolific Python program and ask Guido to "name that hacker". He'd have no problem with mine, I'm __sure. :) ] TW> [ Apologies for the off-topicness, but Python can't be TW> *totally* off topic, not on this mailinglist, can it ? :) ] Naw, plus it's fun to talk about our passions, and Python definitely is one of mine (it better be or I guess I'd have to start looking for a new job). Plus, I suspect there's a lot of folks on this list that aren't (yet :) Python programmers, so explaining why we love it can't hurt. TW> It might reflect a bit of C style because Barry does a fair TW> bit of C coding And in former lives, such dinosauric languages as C++, ObjC, FORTH, Perl, Tcl, Smalltalk, assembly, SNOBOL, Pascal, PL1, BASIC, FORTRAN, blah, blah, blah. :) TW> but Barry also used to do a lot of Java coding (or pretend to, TW> anyway, on JPython :) Funny guy, that Thomas. TW> so I'm not sure if that's true. Python isn't like Perl, you TW> can't write it in *that* many different ways :) TW> Usually just in one, even. Even pipermail is fairly standard TW> python code, if you refactor some of the functions and fix the TW> whitespace usage. Ah ha! Now you've done it. This is a clear offer from you to rewrite Pipermail. Nope, you can't back out now. We all heard it. :) i'll-even-give-you-a-week-ly y'rs, -Barry From barry@digicool.com Fri Mar 16 05:21:34 2001 From: barry@digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw) Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 00:21:34 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Here's a little issue with the news gatewaying: If the n References: <318196@bbs.pixel.citadel.org> <15022.39292.637113.840278@anthem.wooz.org> <20010313175430.51812@scfn.thpl.lib.fl.us> <15022.44052.277026.853903@anthem.wooz.org> <20010313225457.39716@scfn.thpl.lib.fl.us> <15022.65424.707104.510698@anthem.wooz.org> <20010315105347.I404@xs4all.nl> <20010315112926.00539@scfn.thpl.lib.fl.us> <20010316001658.E29286@xs4all.nl> <20010315221014.38411@scfn.thpl.lib.fl.us> Message-ID: <15025.41694.886911.576525@anthem.wooz.org> >>>>> "JRA" == Jay R Ashworth writes: JRA> I shouldn't think so... and it's not like this list has been JRA> swamped with traffic... I *still* haven't gotten an answer to JRA> *my* first question, asked last Friday... :-} Right at the tail end of IPC9, so that's not too surprising. Do you mean JRA> The doco says the site password will work anywhere... but it JRA> doesn't seem to work as the "old password" for changing a JRA> list password, and I can't find anywhere *else* to do that JRA> either. Am I missing something, or is that really a bug? JRA> I'm gonna check Jitterbug for that, too, during my search. I definitely can't reproduce this in 2.0.3 or 2.1. Works for me. Are you sure you've got the crypt module installed in your Python executable? Or was it [w.r.t. max chunks per day hack] JRA> Will this approach cause locking problems, etc? It worries me because you're basically freezing all mail delivery on all lists for some fraction of an entire day. So while people will still be able to hit the cgi for this list (since the list is unlocked), no mail will flow through the system at all while you're in that sleep(). Note that while SMTPDirect for the actual mail delivery task can be configured to run multiple threads, qrunner itself is single threaded, and the message pipeline will block at SMTPDirect until it's done with its work. Your qrunner lock could be broken during that time. Qrunner's lock by default is 10 hours, so say you only deliver one chunk per day. 10 hours from now cron will start another qrunner, the lock will get broken, and now you've got two qrunners stomping on each others toes. Badness. [Aside: your bare "except:" isn't good Pythonic form. You should adorn that except with the most specific exception you expect to get. In this case AttributeError. Bare excepts should be reserved for the (very) rare case of framework wrappers, a la scripts/driver.] A slightly different approach to take would be, if you exceed your max chunks per day threshold, break out of the deliver() function, setting the refused dictionary to contain all the recipients in chunks that are deferred. Set the error code to something in the 400 range (to indicate a temporary failure), and this will cause a SomeRecipientsFailed exception to be signaled to the delivery pipeline. Then you should add a timestamp to the msgdata for when you processed this chunk and at the top of SMTPDirect.process(), simply return if the timestamp is less than your delay period. Without testing it, that approach (or something like it) ought to work better. I'd also suggest adding this as a feature request to the SourceForge feature request tracker, so it doesn't get lost. Cheers, -Barry From barry@digicool.com Fri Mar 16 05:29:08 2001 From: barry@digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw) Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 00:29:08 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Here's a little issue with the news gatewaying: If the n References: <318196@bbs.pixel.citadel.org> <15022.39292.637113.840278@anthem.wooz.org> <20010313175430.51812@scfn.thpl.lib.fl.us> <15022.44052.277026.853903@anthem.wooz.org> <20010313225457.39716@scfn.thpl.lib.fl.us> <15022.65424.707104.510698@anthem.wooz.org> <20010315105347.I404@xs4all.nl> <20010315112926.00539@scfn.thpl.lib.fl.us> <20010316001658.E29286@xs4all.nl> <20010315221014.38411@scfn.thpl.lib.fl.us> Message-ID: <15025.42148.377219.468002@anthem.wooz.org> >>>>> "JRA" == Jay R Ashworth writes: JRA> Well, no, but you can swim in the Object Orientation, or you JRA> can tiptoe through it, and the code I've looked at doesn't JRA> look to horribly deep to me. Python's very cool that way. It makes OOP about as simple as it can possibly be. In fact, I think Python would make a wonderful first or OOP teaching language. Jeez, at least much better than C++ or Java. JRA> Except make_whatever in Utils; how do you get a hard newline JRA> in that damned routine? You mean Utils.maketext()? You could set raw=1 which says not to pass the text to wrap(), and then your template would have to be properly wrapped already (if it's a plaintext file), or you'd include

          's and
          's if it's html. The rules for wrap() are pretty simple. Paragraphs are always filled unless the line begins with whitespace. Blank lines separate paragraphs. That's it. But I'll admit that wrap() is a bear of an algorithm, and I fear, too fragile to muck with. Still it does the job. Usable, human-friendly "structured" plaintext is a /hard/ problem, as anybody who's played with Wiki's StructuredText stuff will attest too. JRA> The template stuff is one of the weak spots in system JRA> operator documentation... and the templates could us a touch JRA> of work, too -- no offence to whomever's writing that is... I completely agree. -Barry From jra@baylink.com Fri Mar 16 05:38:26 2001 From: jra@baylink.com (Jay R. Ashworth) Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 00:38:26 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Here's a little issue with the news gatewaying: If the n In-Reply-To: <15025.41694.886911.576525@anthem.wooz.org>; from "Barry A. Warsaw" on Fri, Mar 16, 2001 at 12:21:34AM -0500 References: <15022.39292.637113.840278@anthem.wooz.org> <20010313175430.51812@scfn.thpl.lib.fl.us> <15022.44052.277026.853903@anthem.wooz.org> <20010313225457.39716@scfn.thpl.lib.fl.us> <15022.65424.707104.510698@anthem.wooz.org> <20010315105347.I404@xs4all.nl> <20010315112926.00539@scfn.thpl.lib.fl.us> <20010316001658.E29286@xs4all.nl> <20010315221014.38411@scfn.thpl.lib.fl.us> <15025.41694.886911.576525@anthem.wooz.org> Message-ID: <20010316003826.02131@scfn.thpl.lib.fl.us> On Fri, Mar 16, 2001 at 12:21:34AM -0500, Barry A. Warsaw wrote: > >>>>> "JRA" == Jay R Ashworth writes: > JRA> I shouldn't think so... and it's not like this list has been > JRA> swamped with traffic... I *still* haven't gotten an answer to > JRA> *my* first question, asked last Friday... :-} > > Right at the tail end of IPC9, so that's not too surprising. Do you > mean Figured. > JRA> The doco says the site password will work anywhere... but it > JRA> doesn't seem to work as the "old password" for changing a > JRA> list password, and I can't find anywhere *else* to do that > JRA> either. Am I missing something, or is that really a bug? > JRA> I'm gonna check Jitterbug for that, too, during my search. > > I definitely can't reproduce this in 2.0.3 or 2.1. Works for me. Are > you sure you've got the crypt module installed in your Python > executable? Nope. I'll check, but while I can *get into8 the list using the site password, *using it as the old password to set a new one* is rejected. *Using the list password* as the old one, however, appears to work. But no, I meant... > Or was it > [w.r.t. max chunks per day hack] > JRA> Will this approach cause locking problems, etc? > > It worries me because you're basically freezing all mail delivery on > all lists for some fraction of an entire day. So while people will > still be able to hit the cgi for this list (since the list is > unlocked), no mail will flow through the system at all while you're in > that sleep(). Note that while SMTPDirect for the actual mail delivery > task can be configured to run multiple threads, qrunner itself is > single threaded, and the message pipeline will block at SMTPDirect > until it's done with its work. SMTPDirect is called from underneath qrunnner? Oh. > Your qrunner lock could be broken during that time. Qrunner's lock by > default is 10 hours, so say you only deliver one chunk per day. 10 > hours from now cron will start another qrunner, the lock will get > broken, and now you've got two qrunners stomping on each others toes. > Badness. Indeed. At what level would it be best to try and fix this? It's actually only one part of "braodcast list handling", but it's probably the most important. > [Aside: your bare "except:" isn't good Pythonic form. You should > adorn that except with the most specific exception you expect to > get. In this case AttributeError. Bare excepts should be reserved > for the (very) rare case of framework wrappers, a la scripts/driver.] Well, yeah, but the try is only 4 lines long, fercrissake... ;-) > A slightly different approach to take would be, if you exceed your max > chunks per day threshold, break out of the deliver() function, setting > the refused dictionary to contain all the recipients in chunks that > are deferred. Set the error code to something in the 400 range (to > indicate a temporary failure), and this will cause a > SomeRecipientsFailed exception to be signaled to the delivery > pipeline. Yeah, but *that* required that I understand all kinds of theory of operation that I, well, don't. :-) And it's inelegant, anyway. Is this the exposing of an architectural deficiency in this part of the system? :-) > Without testing it, that approach (or something like it) ought to work > better. > > I'd also suggest adding this as a feature request to the SourceForge > feature request tracker, so it doesn't get lost. Noted. I'll try to figure out what other requirements using it this way engenders, and make it one big request. Is there at least a call-tree somewhere? Or, alternatively, some code I can run against the system, specifying entry points, to create one? Cheers, -- jra -- Jay R. Ashworth jra@baylink.com Member of the Technical Staff Baylink The Suncoast Freenet The Things I Think Tampa Bay, Florida http://baylink.pitas.com +1 727 804 5015 From jra@baylink.com Fri Mar 16 05:41:48 2001 From: jra@baylink.com (Jay R. Ashworth) Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 00:41:48 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Here's a little issue with the news gatewaying: If the n In-Reply-To: <15025.42148.377219.468002@anthem.wooz.org>; from "Barry A. Warsaw" on Fri, Mar 16, 2001 at 12:29:08AM -0500 References: <15022.39292.637113.840278@anthem.wooz.org> <20010313175430.51812@scfn.thpl.lib.fl.us> <15022.44052.277026.853903@anthem.wooz.org> <20010313225457.39716@scfn.thpl.lib.fl.us> <15022.65424.707104.510698@anthem.wooz.org> <20010315105347.I404@xs4all.nl> <20010315112926.00539@scfn.thpl.lib.fl.us> <20010316001658.E29286@xs4all.nl> <20010315221014.38411@scfn.thpl.lib.fl.us> <15025.42148.377219.468002@anthem.wooz.org> Message-ID: <20010316004148.02391@scfn.thpl.lib.fl.us> On Fri, Mar 16, 2001 at 12:29:08AM -0500, Barry A. Warsaw wrote: > >>>>> "JRA" == Jay R Ashworth writes: Have I mentioned that I hate that quoting style? :-) > JRA> Well, no, but you can swim in the Object Orientation, or you > JRA> can tiptoe through it, and the code I've looked at doesn't > JRA> look to horribly deep to me. > > Python's very cool that way. It makes OOP about as simple as it can > possibly be. In fact, I think Python would make a wonderful first or > OOP teaching language. Jeez, at least much better than C++ or Java. Yeah, well, that dictionary stuff kinda lost me. I guess I'll get it, from looking at working code... > JRA> Except make_whatever in Utils; how do you get a hard newline > JRA> in that damned routine? > > You mean Utils.maketext()? You could set raw=1 which says not to pass > the text to wrap(), and then your template would have to be properly > wrapped already (if it's a plaintext file), or you'd include

          's and >
          's if it's html. > > The rules for wrap() are pretty simple. Paragraphs are always filled > unless the line begins with whitespace. Blank lines separate > paragraphs. That's it. > > But I'll admit that wrap() is a bear of an algorithm, and I fear, too > fragile to muck with. Still it does the job. Usable, human-friendly > "structured" plaintext is a /hard/ problem, as anybody who's played > with Wiki's StructuredText stuff will attest too. Ah. Ok. Yeah, I ended up indenting one space the stuff I didn't want wrapped. > JRA> The template stuff is one of the weak spots in system > JRA> operator documentation... and the templates could us a touch > JRA> of work, too -- no offence to whomever's writing that is... > > I completely agree. Noted. It's not an easy problem, as I found out when I tried rewriting some of them. More When I Know More. Cheers, -- jra -- Jay R. Ashworth jra@baylink.com Member of the Technical Staff Baylink The Suncoast Freenet The Things I Think Tampa Bay, Florida http://baylink.pitas.com +1 727 804 5015 From ricardo@rixhq.nu Fri Mar 16 07:26:03 2001 From: ricardo@rixhq.nu (Ricardo Kustner) Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 08:26:03 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] mailman and the web In-Reply-To: <20010315103238.H404@xs4all.nl>; from thomas@xs4all.net on Thu, Mar 15, 2001 at 10:32:38AM +0100 References: <4.2.2.20010312193934.00d10170@hollyjerry.org> <3AAE55F0.6A8A2F65@greatbridge.com> <4.2.2.20010313091845.00d26e30@hollyjerry.org> <20010315103238.H404@xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <20010316082603.A5616@rix.rixhq.nu> Hi, On Thu, Mar 15, 2001 at 10:32:38AM +0100, Thomas Wouters wrote: > On Tue, Mar 13, 2001 at 09:23:28AM -0800, Jerry Asher wrote: > > >Phase 3: Develop Php front-end for Archives/Admin utils > > > That makes me curious. I know Tcl (and C, LISP, etc.) but not Python or > > PHP. One reason for undertaking this project was to give me something > > "real" to focus on while learning Python. My understanding was that Python > > and PHP are somewhat competing technologies. Mailman is a Python tool > PHP and Python aren't as competing with each other as Python and Tcl are :-) > Seriously, though, I personally detest PHP. I've done a fair lot in it, and > I hate it for a number of reasons, one of the more important ones being > security (or lack thereof.) Python is a much, much easier language to > program in, even for Web/CGI stuff, and if you are going to execute Python > in the back anyway, it's not that much faster. This makes me wonder... is there a mod_python for apache? or maybe fastcgi libs? would be interesting to have an extra choice to be able to run mailman in such an environment... especially if we get database support in the code; then it'd be good to be able to use persistant db links IMHO... In a little defense for PHP, I think it's almost like perl; even though you know it has some issues it gets the job done very quickly easily and almost anything you want to do is available out of the box. Which I think it's one of the reasons why it grows so quickly... I don't agree with python being easier though :) For somebody new to programming it's easier to learn PHP than python... in some way PHP is just a huge number of available functions with a bit of programming language around it ;) ps: sorry if my mesage is a bit messy; I have to get used to using mutt+vi again... I've given up my search for a stable gui mail client for now (again ;)) -- Regards, Ricardo From tollef@add.no Fri Mar 16 09:39:42 2001 From: tollef@add.no (Tollef Fog Heen) Date: 16 Mar 2001 10:39:42 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] mailman and the web In-Reply-To: <20010316082603.A5616@rix.rixhq.nu> References: <4.2.2.20010312193934.00d10170@hollyjerry.org> <3AAE55F0.6A8A2F65@greatbridge.com> <4.2.2.20010313091845.00d26e30@hollyjerry.org> <20010315103238.H404@xs4all.nl> <20010316082603.A5616@rix.rixhq.nu> Message-ID: <87y9u6kq75.fsf@arabella.intern.opera.no> * Ricardo Kustner | This makes me wonder... is there a mod_python for apache? yes. I haven't used it, though, so I can't tell how good it is. | ps: sorry if my mesage is a bit messy; I have to get used to using | mutt+vi again... I've given up my search for a stable gui mail client | for now (again ;)) gnus? -- Tollef Fog Heen Unix _IS_ user friendly... It's just selective about who its friends are. From thomas@xs4all.net Fri Mar 16 21:39:48 2001 From: thomas@xs4all.net (Thomas Wouters) Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 22:39:48 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] mailman and the web In-Reply-To: <20010316082603.A5616@rix.rixhq.nu>; from ricardo@rixhq.nu on Fri, Mar 16, 2001 at 08:26:03AM +0100 References: <4.2.2.20010312193934.00d10170@hollyjerry.org> <3AAE55F0.6A8A2F65@greatbridge.com> <4.2.2.20010313091845.00d26e30@hollyjerry.org> <20010315103238.H404@xs4all.nl> <20010316082603.A5616@rix.rixhq.nu> Message-ID: <20010316223948.F29286@xs4all.nl> On Fri, Mar 16, 2001 at 08:26:03AM +0100, Ricardo Kustner wrote: > This makes me wonder... is there a mod_python for apache? or maybe fastcgi > libs? would be interesting to have an extra choice to be able to run > mailman in such an environment... especially if we get database support in > the code; then it'd be good to be able to use persistant db links IMHO... There is a fastcgi lib for Python, and there are two Apache modules, mod_python and mod_snake. mod_python is less versatile, though, and I don't believe it allows Python embedded in HTML. mod_snake does, IIRC. mod_snake also allows deeply embedded Python (that is, Python code that can get into Apache internals, especiall Apache 2.0.) You can basically write Apache extentions using mod_snake and Apache 2.0. > In a little defense for PHP, I think it's almost like perl; even though > you know it has some issues it gets the job done very quickly easily and > almost anything you want to do is available out of the box. Which I think > it's one of the reasons why it grows so quickly... It gets the job done quickly, easily if the job is very small, and very *messy* :) Just consider the fact that you can call a php page using '?var=value' and $var will be 'value' in the PHP page. End result: you can't trust variables :P > I don't agree with python being easier though :) For somebody new to > programming it's easier to learn PHP than python... in some way PHP is > just a huge number of available functions with a bit of programming > language around it ;) As a scripting language, PHP might be easier (I don't agree, but still.) But if you have no programming knowledge, or you want more than a quick hack to call a function, Python is definately easier. > ps: sorry if my mesage is a bit messy; I have to get used to using mutt+vi > again... I've given up my search for a stable gui mail client for now > (again ;)) Your lines seem to be wrapped at character 100 or so. Doesn't bother me, my editor (which, contrary to vi, is a real editor ) does the paragraph reflowing for me :) -- Thomas Wouters Hi! I'm a .signature virus! copy me into your .signature file to help me spread! From hypnose@t-online.de Sat Mar 17 09:11:17 2001 From: hypnose@t-online.de (guenter wessling) Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2001 10:11:17 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] german templates - final Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010317101117.007d22a0@pop.btx.dtag.de> Hi. For all those who are interested, I have the templates of 2.1 translated to German language and usable in www. It=B4s a windows zip-archive of 18k. Those who want them, please reply to=20 hypnose@t-online.de=20 with subject "german templates - please send" guenter guenter wessling (hypnose@t-online.de) From ricardo@rixhq.nu Sat Mar 17 23:28:39 2001 From: ricardo@rixhq.nu (Ricardo Kustner) Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2001 00:28:39 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Re: mailman and the web (OFFTOPIC) In-Reply-To: <20010316223948.F29286@xs4all.nl>; from thomas@xs4all.net on Fri, Mar 16, 2001 at 10:39:48PM +0100 References: <4.2.2.20010312193934.00d10170@hollyjerry.org> <3AAE55F0.6A8A2F65@greatbridge.com> <4.2.2.20010313091845.00d26e30@hollyjerry.org> <20010315103238.H404@xs4all.nl> <20010316082603.A5616@rix.rixhq.nu> <20010316223948.F29286@xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <20010318002839.C25020@rix.rixhq.nu> On Fri, Mar 16, 2001 at 10:39:48PM +0100, Thomas Wouters wrote: > On Fri, Mar 16, 2001 at 08:26:03AM +0100, Ricardo Kustner wrote: > > This makes me wonder... is there a mod_python for apache? or maybe fastcgi > > libs? would be interesting to have an extra choice to be able to run > > mailman in such an environment... especially if we get database support in > > the code; then it'd be good to be able to use persistant db links IMHO... > There is a fastcgi lib for Python, and there are two Apache modules, > mod_python and mod_snake. mod_python is less versatile, though, and I don't > believe it allows Python embedded in HTML. mod_snake does, IIRC. mod_snake > also allows deeply embedded Python (that is, Python code that can get into > Apache internals, especiall Apache 2.0.) You can basically write Apache > extentions using mod_snake and Apache 2.0. ah... nice, just like mod_perl. Maybe that's something I should look into (snake)... I really want to get more experience in python, but since I usually develop things that run on a webserver, I prefer to use something that can be part of the webserver for optimal performance. I have enough projects which I can try out with python; and maybe I can have a look into if it could benefit mailman. > > In a little defense for PHP, I think it's almost like perl; even though > > you know it has some issues it gets the job done very quickly easily and > > almost anything you want to do is available out of the box. Which I think > It gets the job done quickly, easily if the job is very small, and very > *messy* :) Just consider the fact that you can call a php page using > '?var=value' and $var will be 'value' in the PHP page. End result: you > can't trust variables :P If I'm not mistaken you can turn that off systemwide... > > I don't agree with python being easier though :) For somebody new to > > programming it's easier to learn PHP than python... in some way PHP is > > just a huge number of available functions with a bit of programming > > language around it ;) > As a scripting language, PHP might be easier (I don't agree, but still.) But > if you have no programming knowledge, or you want more than a quick hack to > call a function, Python is definately easier. I've seen several people with hardly any programming knowledge pickup PHP very quickly. But maybe they would learn python even faster, I don't know :) > > ps: sorry if my mesage is a bit messy; I have to get used to using mutt+vi > > again... I've given up my search for a stable gui mail client for now > > (again ;)) > Your lines seem to be wrapped at character 100 or so. Doesn't bother me, my > editor (which, contrary to vi, is a real editor ) does the paragraph > reflowing for me :) which editor is that? I can't seem to figure it out from the message headers :) -- Regards, Ricardo From thomas@xs4all.net Sun Mar 18 01:05:24 2001 From: thomas@xs4all.net (Thomas Wouters) Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2001 02:05:24 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Re: mailman and the web (OFFTOPIC) In-Reply-To: <20010318002839.C25020@rix.rixhq.nu>; from ricardo@rixhq.nu on Sun, Mar 18, 2001 at 12:28:39AM +0100 References: <4.2.2.20010312193934.00d10170@hollyjerry.org> <3AAE55F0.6A8A2F65@greatbridge.com> <4.2.2.20010313091845.00d26e30@hollyjerry.org> <20010315103238.H404@xs4all.nl> <20010316082603.A5616@rix.rixhq.nu> <20010316223948.F29286@xs4all.nl> <20010318002839.C25020@rix.rixhq.nu> Message-ID: <20010318020524.L29286@xs4all.nl> On Sun, Mar 18, 2001 at 12:28:39AM +0100, Ricardo Kustner wrote: > On Fri, Mar 16, 2001 at 10:39:48PM +0100, Thomas Wouters wrote: > > Your lines seem to be wrapped at character 100 or so. Doesn't bother me, > > my editor (which, contrary to vi, is a real editor ) does the > > paragraph reflowing for me :) > which editor is that? I can't seem to figure it out from the message > headers :) It's 'joe', but it could have been (X)Emacs as well :) I haven't figured out how to teach (X)Emacs about quote characters yet, though. (joe recognizes common prefixes and takes them into account when doing paragraph reflowing. Say you have a text like > foo > bar baz baz and you type ^Kj while inside that paragraph, or you select the text and type ^Kj, it figures out '> ' is used to quote the paragraph and adjusts the string accordingly. So instead of > foo > bar baz baz you end up with > foo bar baz baz It fucks up occasionaly, and you don't want to do paragraph reflowing on a preformated paragraph (say, Python code examples :) but for replying to people with broken mailers/editors, it's +rock :) And besides, if it goes wrong, you do ^_ (undo :) -- Thomas Wouters Hi! I'm a .signature virus! copy me into your .signature file to help me spread! From barry@digicool.com Sun Mar 18 16:43:16 2001 From: barry@digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw) Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2001 11:43:16 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Re: mailman and the web (OFFTOPIC) References: <4.2.2.20010312193934.00d10170@hollyjerry.org> <3AAE55F0.6A8A2F65@greatbridge.com> <4.2.2.20010313091845.00d26e30@hollyjerry.org> <20010315103238.H404@xs4all.nl> <20010316082603.A5616@rix.rixhq.nu> <20010316223948.F29286@xs4all.nl> <20010318002839.C25020@rix.rixhq.nu> <20010318020524.L29286@xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <15028.58788.227124.425558@anthem.wooz.org> >>>>> "TW" == Thomas Wouters writes: TW> It's 'joe', but it could have been (X)Emacs as well :) I TW> haven't figured out how to teach (X)Emacs about quote TW> characters yet, though. (joe recognizes common prefixes and TW> takes them into account when doing paragraph reflowing. Say TW> you have a text like Do you know about filladapt? It's a way cool add-on (which comes with XEmacs but not sure about Emacs) and it seems to Just Work with most kinds of crazy prefixing, not just of bizarrely quoted email text , but with, say numbered lists in Python comments. TW> It fucks up occasionaly, and you don't want to do paragraph TW> reflowing on a preformated paragraph (say, Python code TW> examples :) but for replying to people with broken TW> mailers/editors, it's +rock :) And besides, if it goes wrong, TW> you do ^_ (undo :) BTW, for any latent elisp hackers out there, my long orphaned Supercite 4 alpha has some heuristics to try to recognize code examples, and other types of text in email messages and quote/wrap them accordingly. So far, I've found no takers to continue to work on the code, which despite its well-deserved alpha label has served me well for several years. getting-really-off-topic-now-ly y'rs, -Barry From barry@digicool.com Sun Mar 18 17:12:24 2001 From: barry@digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw) Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2001 12:12:24 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] mailman and the web References: <4.2.2.20010312193934.00d10170@hollyjerry.org> Message-ID: <15028.60536.334661.193271@anthem.wooz.org> >>>>> "JA" == Jerry Asher writes: JA> Currently the ACS system is such that visitors can request JA> that follow up answers be sent to them, which the ACS JA> implements by creating hundreds of individual emails and JA> mailing them out. How would you organize it otherwise? A new mailing list for each page, with the membership being those people who want followups for that particular page? Some of the ideas I have for Mailman 3.0 include the ability to create lighter weight lists that could be created and deleted much easier than current mailing list objects. OTOH, something that might happen post-2.1 is added a `topics' feature where a mailing list can have a small vocabulary of keywords added by the list admin, and the recipients could select which messages from the whole list they'd filter out or receive based on these keywords. This would be quite handy for some of our high volume lists like python-dev and python-list. JA> I would like to "unify" the ACS bulletin board code with JA> "some" mailing list manager. The benefits to the ACS toolkit JA> I perceive would include: | 1 detecting/catching vacation messages Vacation messages are never supposed to be sent to messages with "Precedence: bulk" headers. I think this is a rather ad-hoc `standard' and a lot of vacation programs just don't conform. For those buggy programs, knowing who they actually send the vacation messages to is impossible. Maybe it's Reply-to:/From: but sometimes it's Sender: or even Errors-To:. Mailman sets the latter to the -admin address, so at least there's a hope that even for broken vacation progs, the original sender won't get completely spammed. OTOH, I'm not sure there's much Mailman can do. Few even broken vacation progs will send their responses to the list (thank goodness), and if it doesn't go through Mailman, it obviously can't detect or catch it. | 2 detecting/catching/(and maybe unsubscribing) bounces Mailman's quite good at detecting and catching bounces. Mailman 2.1 should be better (I've added quite a few new detectors, but due to a pre-CVS snafu, I lost most of my bounce samples from my test suite). Currently, Mailman will disable an address after some bounce criteria has been met, but the actual disposition of permanently fatal addresses have long been talked about (e.g. some distinction b/w disabled by the user and disabled by Mailman, auto-resends for some period of time to see if the address comes back, auto-unsubscribing). | 3 ability to post directly to the bulletin from email | (and have the posts end up in the right threads) Do you mean email->bbs? That can theoretically be possible using the same mechanism that email->news or email->archive works: you write a Handlers/ module to inject the message into the bbs. Your handler module will contain a process() function that takes a mailing list, a message, and a Python dictionary containing message metadata. Then it Does Whatever It Wants with this information and returns None. With an appropriate API for injection into the bbs, the DWIW part shouldn't be hard. In MM2.1, you might instead create a separate queue for shuttling messages into the bbs. JA> 4 but I am worried about mail loops. Mailman kills loops by adding an X-BeenThere: header with the list address as the value. If it detects such a header on an incoming message, it throws a LoopError, which is currently defined to discard the message. Not all mail loops will preserve X-BeenThere, but I think in practice it works pretty well. -Barry From barry@digicool.com Sun Mar 18 17:16:41 2001 From: barry@digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw) Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2001 12:16:41 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] mailman and the web References: <4.2.2.20010312193934.00d10170@hollyjerry.org> <3AAE55F0.6A8A2F65@greatbridge.com> Message-ID: <15028.60793.907054.789543@anthem.wooz.org> >>>>> "CR" == Chris Ryan writes: CR> Phase 3: Develop Php front-end for Archives/Admin utils It'd have to be a really really convincing argument[*] for me to add PHP to Mailman in any kind of supported way. As an add-on, sure, and figuring out the write API to put on Mailman to allow different web front-ends is definitely something that's important to me. That's not to say that the CGI side of Mailman couldn't be vastly improved. I think there are good Pythonic solutions to this though. [*]-50%-of-Guido's-bounty-for-adding-braces-to-Python-seems-about-right-ly y'rs, -Barry From jra@baylink.com Sun Mar 18 17:21:22 2001 From: jra@baylink.com (Jay R. Ashworth) Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2001 12:21:22 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Re: mailman and the web (OFFTOPIC) In-Reply-To: <20010318020524.L29286@xs4all.nl>; from Thomas Wouters on Sun, Mar 18, 2001 at 02:05:24AM +0100 References: <4.2.2.20010312193934.00d10170@hollyjerry.org> <3AAE55F0.6A8A2F65@greatbridge.com> <4.2.2.20010313091845.00d26e30@hollyjerry.org> <20010315103238.H404@xs4all.nl> <20010316082603.A5616@rix.rixhq.nu> <20010316223948.F29286@xs4all.nl> <20010318002839.C25020@rix.rixhq.nu> <20010318020524.L29286@xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <20010318122122.41095@scfn.thpl.lib.fl.us> On Sun, Mar 18, 2001 at 02:05:24AM +0100, Thomas Wouters wrote: > It fucks up occasionaly, and you don't want to do paragraph reflowing on a > preformated paragraph (say, Python code examples :) but for replying to > people with broken mailers/editors, it's +rock :) And besides, if it goes > wrong, you do ^_ (undo :) "par(1)". Cheers, -- jra -- Jay R. Ashworth jra@baylink.com Member of the Technical Staff Baylink The Suncoast Freenet The Things I Think Tampa Bay, Florida http://baylink.pitas.com +1 727 804 5015 From jra@baylink.com Sun Mar 18 18:11:32 2001 From: jra@baylink.com (Jay R. Ashworth) Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2001 13:11:32 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] mailman and the web In-Reply-To: <15028.60793.907054.789543@anthem.wooz.org>; from "Barry A. Warsaw" on Sun, Mar 18, 2001 at 12:16:41PM -0500 References: <4.2.2.20010312193934.00d10170@hollyjerry.org> <3AAE55F0.6A8A2F65@greatbridge.com> <15028.60793.907054.789543@anthem.wooz.org> Message-ID: <20010318131132.58763@scfn.thpl.lib.fl.us> On Sun, Mar 18, 2001 at 12:16:41PM -0500, Barry A. Warsaw wrote: > [*]-50%-of-Guido's-bounty-for-adding-braces-to-Python-seems-about-right-ly > y'rs, Which is? -- j -- Jay R. Ashworth jra@baylink.com Member of the Technical Staff Baylink The Suncoast Freenet The Things I Think Tampa Bay, Florida http://baylink.pitas.com +1 727 804 5015 From ricardo@rixhq.nu Sun Mar 18 22:15:03 2001 From: ricardo@rixhq.nu (Ricardo Kustner) Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2001 23:15:03 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] python 2.0 & mailman Message-ID: <20010318231503.B28367@rix.rixhq.nu> Hi, After almost a year of succesfull mailman usage, my server is starting to run into performance trouble again (probably due to an enormous increase in webtraffic and list subscribers). So I'm looking into ways of increasing performance again. I was wondering if python 2.0 has significant performance increase compared to 1.5.2? I'm sure I can sqeaze some more performance out of this Pentium-1 box :) ps: my message should be much less messy now... I'm using joe as my mutt editor... I remember the keybindings from QEdit from those good old DOS days so I think I can manage pps: I didn't realize I was amongst true hackers who still use emacs on here; I'm honored ! ;) -- Regards, Ricardo From jerry@hollyjerry.org Mon Mar 19 01:37:21 2001 From: jerry@hollyjerry.org (Jerry Asher) Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2001 17:37:21 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] mailman and the web In-Reply-To: <15028.60536.334661.193271@anthem.wooz.org> References: <4.2.2.20010312193934.00d10170@hollyjerry.org> Message-ID: <4.2.2.20010318121307.00bf8c00@hollyjerry.org> Thanks for responding. Let me apologize "the new kid" has arrived, and travel reservations, etc. has turned this into a six hour, reply in dire need of editing..... JA> Currently the ACS system is such that visitors can request > JA> that follow up answers be sent to them, which the ACS > JA> implements by creating hundreds of individual emails and > JA> mailing them out. > >How would you organize it otherwise? I didn't mean to imply that I would *organize* it differently (although I like your ideas about topic ids that you mention later on). I was trying to suggest I would like to *implement* it differently. Currently, the ACS bboard software, (uh, I believe) sends a new email to each individual. Some have suggested that this in unnecessarily inefficient, that a smarter mailer (that might be found in a mailing list) might batch up the emails more efficiently. Is that true? Does mailman accomplish this? But also, the ACS bboard software doesn't do anything special with the headers that one *is supposed* to do for mailing lists. For instance, you mention a "precedence: bulk" header to ward off properly configured vacation programs. The ACS bboard doesn't do that, yet. So unifying the ACS bboard with a maillist list manager that already implements proper header creation benefits the ACS wonderfully. > | 1 detecting/catching vacation messages > >Vacation messages are never supposed to be sent to messages with >"Precedence: bulk" headers. I think this is a rather ad-hoc >`standard' and a lot of vacation programs just don't conform. For >those buggy programs, knowing who they actually send the vacation >messages to is impossible. Maybe it's Reply-to:/From: but sometimes >it's Sender: or even Errors-To:. Mailman sets the latter to the >-admin address, so at least there's a hope that even for broken >vacation progs, the original sender won't get completely spammed. Thanks for this information, the ACS bboard isn't setting precedence errors-to, sender, or anything. >OTOH, I'm not sure there's much Mailman can do. Few even broken >vacation progs will send their responses to the list (thank goodness), >and if it doesn't go through Mailman, it obviously can't detect or >catch it. I think the plan (initally) would be for all mail and replies to go through Mailman just so the ACS can benefit from Mailman's having done this already, and Mailman's developers continuing interest in improving, or following new standards, etc. >Do you mean email->bbs? That can theoretically be possible using the >same mechanism that email->news or email->archive works: you write a >Handlers/ module to inject the message into the bbs. Your handler >module will contain a process() function that takes a mailing list, a >message, and a Python dictionary containing message metadata. Then it >Does Whatever It Wants with this information and returns None. With >an appropriate API for injection into the bbs, the DWIW part shouldn't >be hard. That sounds good. Pardon my Mailman/Python ignorance, is there truly a procedure literally called email->bbs, or does this describe a "path" that mail can take? How do I do the reverse? bbs->email? (Just send an email to the list?) How might I encode a piece of bbs data into an email such that replies to the email will carry that piece of data back? (that is, the specific thread/topic_id that the bbs should put the message into). I realize I can do this by mangling the subject line for example: "Re: [thread: 2FC24] Mrs. Field's Recipes", but is there a more subtle/correct way to do this? Perhaps by adding a header? Or by mangling the reply-to address? Qmail has wonderful behavior that supports my mangling of the reply-to address. You can send a message to me at jerry@hollyjerry.org, or jerry-junk@hollyjerry.org, or jerry-webvan@ or you can put anything after the hyphen. It will get to me all the same, OR I can set up qmail in a procmail like fashion to pass the message to a script which can filter the messages based on the data after the hyphen. So one way to encode the bbs thread data is to set the reply to "bboard-thread-2FC24@mybboard.com". I found a recent copy of RFC 2076 that explains some of these headers, but can you point me to some documents that specifically what maillists are supposed to do including these ad-hoc standards? Last night I was at the bookstore and flipped through an O'Reilly text: "Programming Email" - that sure didn't contain anything helpful. What specifies the behavior of a mail user agent in reply? If I send a header, will the user agent include that header in a reply? Specifically, it appears I might encode some bboard message threading information in an X-URI, X-URL, or Content-Alternative headers. "Should" a reply to a message containing those headers contain those headers? From your answer regarding X-BeenThere, it sounds as though a "normal" reply should not include these headers.... Thanks, Jerry ===================================================== Jerry Asher jerry@hollyjerry.org 1678 Shattuck Avenue Suite 161 Tel: (510) 549-2980 Berkeley, CA 94709 Fax: (877) 311-8688 From barry@digicool.com Mon Mar 19 03:17:04 2001 From: barry@digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw) Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2001 22:17:04 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] mailman and the web References: <4.2.2.20010312193934.00d10170@hollyjerry.org> <4.2.2.20010318121307.00bf8c00@hollyjerry.org> Message-ID: <15029.31280.957127.162874@anthem.wooz.org> JA> Currently, the ACS bboard software, (uh, I believe) sends a JA> new email to each individual. Some have suggested that this JA> in unnecessarily inefficient, that a smarter mailer (that JA> might be found in a mailing list) might batch up the emails JA> more efficiently. Is that true? Does mailman accomplish JA> this? Yes, in a way. Mailman isn't an MTA (i.e. mail transport agent, or smtp daemon), but it tries to cooperate with the MTA by handing messages off in batches. Ignoring optional chunking for the moment, let's say that you have a list with 1000 recipients. You could do like what it sounds ACS does and make 1000 separate connections to the local MTA, handing off a unique message per recipient. Or perhaps ACS tries to connect to each remote smtpd itself, in which case it has to handle all the problems of mail delivery normally best left to an MTA. In Mailman, this message would be handed off to the local MTA as one copy, with 1000 recipients. Then it would be up to the MTA to do as efficient delivery as is possible. Mailman has some optional chunking parameters so that it can be tuned to your MTA, but in general, it tries to hand off the message with the fewest dialog with the MTA as possible, and then it gets out of the way. JA> But also, the ACS bboard software doesn't do anything special JA> with the headers that one *is supposed* to do for mailing JA> lists. For instance, you mention a "precedence: bulk" header JA> to ward off properly configured vacation programs. The ACS JA> bboard doesn't do that, yet. So unifying the ACS bboard with JA> a maillist list manager that already implements proper header JA> creation benefits the ACS wonderfully. That sounds good. There are some other RFCs governing headers for mailing lists, and there are headers that are best removed, etc. Mailman's got all that. JA> I think the plan (initally) would be for all mail and replies JA> to go through Mailman just so the ACS can benefit from JA> Mailman's having done this already, and Mailman's developers JA> continuing interest in improving, or following new standards, JA> etc. Definitely doable. JA> That sounds good. Pardon my Mailman/Python ignorance, is JA> there truly a procedure literally called email->bbs, or does JA> this describe a "path" that mail can take? That just describes the path of the mail. JA> How do I do the reverse? bbs->email? (Just send an email to JA> the list?) Yep. It's as easy as having the bbs send the email to mylist@myhost.com. You /could/ inject it more directly, but you may not need to. JA> How might I encode a piece of bbs data into an email such that JA> replies to the email will carry that piece of data back? JA> (that is, the specific thread/topic_id that the bbs should put JA> the message into). I realize I can do this by mangling the JA> subject line for example: JA> "Re: [thread: 2FC24] Mrs. Field's Recipes", JA> but is there a more subtle/correct way to do this? Perhaps by JA> adding a header? Or by mangling the reply-to address? There's almost nothing you can do to an email message that you can guarantee will come back to you when someone replies to that message. MUAs (mail user agents, the thing a person uses to read and respond to their email) seems to have no lack of creativity in mucking up, adding, and deleting headers, or futzing with message bodies. I think you can be reasonably assured that Subject: mangling will mostly survive the round-trip, but that's about it. If you hack Reply-To: it's a good bet that you'll see that text come back at you in the To: or Cc: headers. I'm not sure what, if anything else you can rely on with enough certainty for your purposes. JA> Qmail has wonderful behavior that supports my mangling of the JA> reply-to address. You can send a message to me at JA> jerry@hollyjerry.org, or jerry-junk@hollyjerry.org, or JA> jerry-webvan@ or you can put anything after the hyphen. It JA> will get to me all the same, OR I can set up qmail in a JA> procmail like fashion to pass the message to a script which JA> can filter the messages based on the data after the hyphen. JA> So one way to encode the bbs thread data is to set the reply JA> to "bboard-thread-2FC24@mybboard.com". Postfix and Exim (and probably Sendmail) have similar functionality. That might not be a bad way to go. JA> I found a recent copy of RFC 2076 that explains some of these JA> headers, but can you point me to some documents that JA> specifically what maillists are supposed to do including these JA> ad-hoc standards? Last night I was at the bookstore and JA> flipped through an O'Reilly text: "Programming Email" - that JA> sure didn't contain anything helpful. Heh. RFC 2369 describes the List-* headers, and of course there's also the basic RFCs like 822, 1153, and the MIME RFCs. There's tons of useful lore on the net not covered in the RFCs. I'll try to find some time to put together a list of URLs I tend to consult, and add it to the Mailman docs. JA> What specifies the behavior of a mail user agent in reply? If JA> I send a header, will the user agent include that header in a JA> reply? JA> Specifically, it appears I might encode some bboard message JA> threading information in an X-URI, X-URL, or JA> Content-Alternative headers. "Should" a reply to a message JA> containing those headers contain those headers? From your JA> answer regarding X-BeenThere, it sounds as though a "normal" JA> reply should not include these headers.... Correct. See above. What specifies the behavior of an MUA is mostly the whim of the engineers who wrote the thing, near as I can tell. :) Cheers, -Barry From jra@baylink.com Mon Mar 19 03:33:54 2001 From: jra@baylink.com (Jay R. Ashworth) Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2001 22:33:54 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Wildly OT - qmail and mangling (was: mailman and the web) In-Reply-To: <4.2.2.20010318121307.00bf8c00@hollyjerry.org>; from Jerry Asher on Sun, Mar 18, 2001 at 05:37:21PM -0800 References: <4.2.2.20010312193934.00d10170@hollyjerry.org> <15028.60536.334661.193271@anthem.wooz.org> <4.2.2.20010318121307.00bf8c00@hollyjerry.org> Message-ID: <20010318223354.25893@scfn.thpl.lib.fl.us> On Sun, Mar 18, 2001 at 05:37:21PM -0800, Jerry Asher wrote: > Qmail has wonderful behavior that supports my mangling of the reply-to > address. You can send a message to me at jerry@hollyjerry.org, or > jerry-junk@hollyjerry.org, or jerry-webvan@ or you can put anything after > the hyphen. It will get to me all the same, OR I can set up qmail in a > procmail like fashion to pass the message to a script which can filter the > messages based on the data after the hyphen. So one way to encode the bbs > thread data is to set the reply to "bboard-thread-2FC24@mybboard.com". Typical djb mistake. There's been a defined protocol for that that well predates qmail (unless I'm much mistaken); the defined character is a "+". No, it's not a formal standard... but it's apparently a widely defined informal standard. Cheers, -- jra -- Jay R. Ashworth jra@baylink.com Member of the Technical Staff Baylink The Suncoast Freenet The Things I Think Tampa Bay, Florida http://baylink.pitas.com +1 727 804 5015 From jra@baylink.com Mon Mar 19 03:35:50 2001 From: jra@baylink.com (Jay R. Ashworth) Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2001 22:35:50 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] mailman and the web In-Reply-To: <15029.31280.957127.162874@anthem.wooz.org>; from "Barry A. Warsaw" on Sun, Mar 18, 2001 at 10:17:04PM -0500 References: <4.2.2.20010312193934.00d10170@hollyjerry.org> <4.2.2.20010318121307.00bf8c00@hollyjerry.org> <15029.31280.957127.162874@anthem.wooz.org> Message-ID: <20010318223550.37121@scfn.thpl.lib.fl.us> On Sun, Mar 18, 2001 at 10:17:04PM -0500, Barry A. Warsaw wrote: > In Mailman, this message would be handed off to the local MTA as one > copy, with 1000 recipients. Then it would be up to the MTA to do as > efficient delivery as is possible. Mailman has some optional chunking > parameters so that it can be tuned to your MTA, but in general, it > tries to hand off the message with the fewest dialog with the MTA as > possible, and then it gets out of the way. And for good reason. From an adventure last week, on a P200: Time to add 1000 recipients to a list with welcome mails: 70-80 minutes. Time to add 1000 recipients to a list *without* welcome mails: roughly 2 minutes. Cheers, -- jra -- Jay R. Ashworth jra@baylink.com Member of the Technical Staff Baylink The Suncoast Freenet The Things I Think Tampa Bay, Florida http://baylink.pitas.com +1 727 804 5015 From gerald@impressive.net Mon Mar 19 10:42:23 2001 From: gerald@impressive.net (Gerald Oskoboiny) Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 05:42:23 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Re: mailman and the web (OFFTOPIC) In-Reply-To: <20010318020524.L29286@xs4all.nl>; from thomas@xs4all.net on Sun, Mar 18, 2001 at 02:05:24AM +0100 References: <4.2.2.20010312193934.00d10170@hollyjerry.org> <3AAE55F0.6A8A2F65@greatbridge.com> <4.2.2.20010313091845.00d26e30@hollyjerry.org> <20010315103238.H404@xs4all.nl> <20010316082603.A5616@rix.rixhq.nu> <20010316223948.F29286@xs4all.nl> <20010318002839.C25020@rix.rixhq.nu> <20010318020524.L29286@xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <20010319054223.A8458@impressive.net> On Sun, Mar 18, 2001 at 02:05:24AM +0100, Thomas Wouters wrote: > On Sun, Mar 18, 2001 at 12:28:39AM +0100, Ricardo Kustner wrote: > > On Fri, Mar 16, 2001 at 10:39:48PM +0100, Thomas Wouters wrote: > > > > Your lines seem to be wrapped at character 100 or so. Doesn't bother me, > > > my editor (which, contrary to vi, is a real editor ) does the > > > paragraph reflowing for me :) Hey, any editor can be misconfigured into doing the wrong thing. :) > > which editor is that? I can't seem to figure it out from the message > > headers :) > > It's 'joe', but it could have been (X)Emacs as well :) I haven't figured out > how to teach (X)Emacs about quote characters yet, though. (joe recognizes > common prefixes and takes them into account when doing paragraph reflowing. vim does this too, you just press "gq", then indicate the text that you want to reflow. (e.g., to reflow the current paragraph, "gq}") mutt+vim is the best of all possible email worlds imho :) -- Gerald Oskoboiny http://impressive.net/people/gerald/ From claw@kanga.nu Tue Mar 20 04:29:51 2001 From: claw@kanga.nu (J C Lawrence) Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 20:29:51 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] mailman and the web In-Reply-To: Message from "Jay R. Ashworth" of "Sun, 18 Mar 2001 22:35:50 EST." <20010318223550.37121@scfn.thpl.lib.fl.us> References: <4.2.2.20010312193934.00d10170@hollyjerry.org> <4.2.2.20010318121307.00bf8c00@hollyjerry.org> <15029.31280.957127.162874@anthem.wooz.org> <20010318223550.37121@scfn.thpl.lib.fl.us> Message-ID: <23827.985062591@kanga.nu> On Sun, 18 Mar 2001 22:35:50 -0500 Jay R Ashworth wrote: > On Sun, Mar 18, 2001 at 10:17:04PM -0500, Barry A. Warsaw wrote: >> In Mailman, this message would be handed off to the local MTA as >> one copy, with 1000 recipients. Then it would be up to the MTA >> to do as efficient delivery as is possible. Mailman has some >> optional chunking parameters so that it can be tuned to your MTA, >> but in general, it tries to hand off the message with the fewest >> dialog with the MTA as possible, and then it gets out of the way. > And for good reason. From an adventure last week, on a P200: > Time to add 1000 recipients to a list with welcome mails: 70-80 > minutes. > Time to add 1000 recipients to a list *without* welcome mails: > roughly 2 minutes. Translation your MTA is misconfigured to do some sort of extra processing (likely domain verification) on list server messages as they are delivered. Bad Idea (and a FAQ). A local test: On a dual PII-33 with 512M RAM running Postfix under Debian/Woody (kanga.nu), I created a test list and then subscribed 1,000 addresses to it via `~/bin/add_members -n members -w y`. Total execution time for the add_members command: 38 seconds. The member list in question was artificial (a set of trash +-addresses on localhost I have set to deliver to /dev/null but which are unique as far as postfix and Mailman are concerned). Qrunner on the same machine, when delivering a single message to one of my lists which has almost exactly 1,000 members (slightly over) takes just over 3.5 seconds with SMTP_MAX_RCPTS set to 5. I presume the extra time for add_members is due to poor lock management, but have not checked. -- J C Lawrence claw@kanga.nu ---------(*) http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/ --=| A man is as sane as he is dangerous to his environment |=-- From claw@kanga.nu Tue Mar 20 04:36:26 2001 From: claw@kanga.nu (J C Lawrence) Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 20:36:26 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Wildly OT - qmail and mangling (was: mailman and the web) In-Reply-To: Message from "Jay R. Ashworth" of "Sun, 18 Mar 2001 22:33:54 EST." <20010318223354.25893@scfn.thpl.lib.fl.us> References: <4.2.2.20010312193934.00d10170@hollyjerry.org> <15028.60536.334661.193271@anthem.wooz.org> <4.2.2.20010318121307.00bf8c00@hollyjerry.org> <20010318223354.25893@scfn.thpl.lib.fl.us> Message-ID: <3480.985062986@kanga.nu> On Sun, 18 Mar 2001 22:33:54 -0500 Jay R Ashworth wrote: > On Sun, Mar 18, 2001 at 05:37:21PM -0800, Jerry Asher wrote: >> Qmail has wonderful behavior that supports my mangling of the >> reply-to address. You can send a message to me at >> jerry@hollyjerry.org, or jerry-junk@hollyjerry.org, or >> jerry-webvan@ or you can put anything after the hyphen. It will >> get to me all the same, OR I can set up qmail in a procmail like >> fashion to pass the message to a script which can filter the >> messages based on the data after the hyphen. So one way to >> encode the bbs thread data is to set the reply to >> "bboard-thread-2FC24@mybboard.com". > Typical djb mistake. While he reinvented common practice (a definite DJB-ism) he hardly violated any standard -- +-addressing is still mostly larval. > There's been a defined protocol for that that well predates qmail > (unless I'm much mistaken); the defined character is a "+". No, > it's not a formal standard... but it's apparently a widely defined > informal standard. Every MTA I'm aware of that supports +-addressing mandates having the extension character set as part of the feature configuration. I've seen both '-' and '+' commonly used over tha last decade ro so outside of DJB circles. IIRC the early Sendmail patches for +-addressing used '-' by default until enough people yelled at Eric that it was too confusing and tended to screw up their other scripts. > Tampa Bay, Florida http://baylink.pitas.com +1 727 804 5015 Do Tim et al still do the Weds night/Sunday brunch meets? -- J C Lawrence claw@kanga.nu ---------(*) http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/ --=| A man is as sane as he is dangerous to his environment |=-- From claw@kanga.nu Tue Mar 20 04:38:43 2001 From: claw@kanga.nu (J C Lawrence) Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 20:38:43 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] python 2.0 & mailman In-Reply-To: Message from Ricardo Kustner of "Sun, 18 Mar 2001 23:15:03 +0100." <20010318231503.B28367@rix.rixhq.nu> References: <20010318231503.B28367@rix.rixhq.nu> Message-ID: <7706.985063123@kanga.nu> On Sun, 18 Mar 2001 23:15:03 +0100 Ricardo Kustner wrote: > After almost a year of succesfull mailman usage, my server is > starting to run into performance trouble again (probably due to an > enormous increase in webtraffic and list subscribers). What sort of performance troubles? What manifestations? -- J C Lawrence claw@kanga.nu ---------(*) http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/ --=| A man is as sane as he is dangerous to his environment |=-- From claw@kanga.nu Tue Mar 20 04:45:23 2001 From: claw@kanga.nu (J C Lawrence) Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 20:45:23 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] mailman and the web In-Reply-To: Message from barry@digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw) of "Sun, 18 Mar 2001 12:12:24 EST." <15028.60536.334661.193271@anthem.wooz.org> References: <4.2.2.20010312193934.00d10170@hollyjerry.org> <15028.60536.334661.193271@anthem.wooz.org> Message-ID: <19917.985063523@kanga.nu> On Sun, 18 Mar 2001 12:12:24 -0500 Barry A Warsaw wrote: > Mailman kills loops by adding an X-BeenThere: header with the list > address as the value. If it detects such a header on an incoming > message, it throws a LoopError, which is currently defined to > discard the message. Not all mail loops will preserve > X-BeenThere, but I think in practice it works pretty well. Note that many MTAs also have their own loop detection. Postfix for instance hooks off Delivered-To:. -- J C Lawrence claw@kanga.nu ---------(*) http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/ --=| A man is as sane as he is dangerous to his environment |=-- From claw@kanga.nu Tue Mar 20 04:51:22 2001 From: claw@kanga.nu (J C Lawrence) Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 20:51:22 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Re: mailman and the web (OFFTOPIC) In-Reply-To: Message from Thomas Wouters of "Sun, 18 Mar 2001 02:05:24 +0100." <20010318020524.L29286@xs4all.nl> References: <4.2.2.20010312193934.00d10170@hollyjerry.org> <3AAE55F0.6A8A2F65@greatbridge.com> <4.2.2.20010313091845.00d26e30@hollyjerry.org> <20010315103238.H404@xs4all.nl> <20010316082603.A5616@rix.rixhq.nu> <20010316223948.F29286@xs4all.nl> <20010318002839.C25020@rix.rixhq.nu> <20010318020524.L29286@xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <30904.985063882@kanga.nu> On Sun, 18 Mar 2001 02:05:24 +0100 Thomas Wouters wrote: > It's 'joe', but it could have been (X)Emacs as well :) I haven't > figured out how to teach (X)Emacs about quote characters yet, > though. Look into SuperCite. From my .xemacs: ---- ;;; This last part is for supercite. It does not need to be specifically ;;; tailored to Exmh, but here is my configuration: (autoload 'sc-cite-original "supercite" "Supercite 3.1" t) (setq sc-nested-citation-p t) (setq sc-reference-tag-string "") (setq sc-citation-delimiter ">") (setq sc-citation-leader "") (setq sc-nuke-mail-headers 'all) (setq sc-mail-warn-if-non-rfc822-p nil) (setq sc-citation-leader "") (setq sc-confirm-always-p nil) (defun my-sc-header () (insert sc-reference-tag-string (sc-hdr "On " (sc-mail-field "date") " ") "\n" (sc-hdr "" (sc-mail-field "sc-author") "") (or (sc-hdr " <" (sc-mail-field "sc-from-address") ">" t) (sc-hdr " <" (sc-mail-field "sc-reply-address") ">" t) ) " wrote:\n" ) ) (setq sc-rewrite-header-list '((my-sc-header))) (setq sc-preferred-header-style 0) ---- Its a deliberately lightweight setup (I don't like SuperCite's default quoting pattern using initials). However it works very nicely as regards recognising quoting patterns. -- J C Lawrence claw@kanga.nu ---------(*) http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/ --=| A man is as sane as he is dangerous to his environment |=-- From claw@kanga.nu Tue Mar 20 05:02:26 2001 From: claw@kanga.nu (J C Lawrence) Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 21:02:26 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] mailman and the web In-Reply-To: Message from Ricardo Kustner of "Fri, 16 Mar 2001 08:26:03 +0100." <20010316082603.A5616@rix.rixhq.nu> References: <4.2.2.20010312193934.00d10170@hollyjerry.org> <3AAE55F0.6A8A2F65@greatbridge.com> <4.2.2.20010313091845.00d26e30@hollyjerry.org> <20010315103238.H404@xs4all.nl> <20010316082603.A5616@rix.rixhq.nu> Message-ID: <18622.985064546@kanga.nu> On Fri, 16 Mar 2001 08:26:03 +0100 Ricardo Kustner wrote: > This makes me wonder... is there a mod_python for apache? http://www.modpython.org/ > ps: sorry if my mesage is a bit messy; I have to get used to using > mutt+vi again... I've given up my search for a stable gui mail > client for now (again ;)) Happy exmh user here. Screenshots: ftp://ftp.kanga.nu/pub/users/claw/JCL/Images/Apps/exmh/ Homepage: http://www.beedub.com/exmh/ -- J C Lawrence claw@kanga.nu ---------(*) http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/ --=| A man is as sane as he is dangerous to his environment |=-- From jra@baylink.com Tue Mar 20 05:38:35 2001 From: jra@baylink.com (Jay R. Ashworth) Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 00:38:35 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Wildly OT - qmail and mangling (was: mailman and the web) In-Reply-To: <3480.985062986@kanga.nu>; from J C Lawrence on Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 08:36:26PM -0800 References: <4.2.2.20010312193934.00d10170@hollyjerry.org> <15028.60536.334661.193271@anthem.wooz.org> <4.2.2.20010318121307.00bf8c00@hollyjerry.org> <20010318223354.25893@scfn.thpl.lib.fl.us> <3480.985062986@kanga.nu> Message-ID: <20010320003835.22712@scfn.thpl.lib.fl.us> On Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 08:36:26PM -0800, J C Lawrence wrote: > > Typical djb mistake. > > While he reinvented common practice (a definite DJB-ism) he hardly > violated any standard -- +-addressing is still mostly larval. Really? I've seen it for *years*. > > There's been a defined protocol for that that well predates qmail > > (unless I'm much mistaken); the defined character is a "+". No, > > it's not a formal standard... but it's apparently a widely defined > > informal standard. > > Every MTA I'm aware of that supports +-addressing mandates having > the extension character set as part of the feature configuration. Do that again? I fell off. > I've seen both '-' and '+' commonly used over tha last decade ro so > outside of DJB circles. IIRC the early Sendmail patches for > +-addressing used '-' by default until enough people yelled at Eric > that it was too confusing and tended to screw up their other > scripts. I see. > > Tampa Bay, Florida http://baylink.pitas.com +1 727 804 5015 > > Do Tim et al still do the Weds night/Sunday brunch meets? Oh. Hey, Carnage. I wouldn't begin to know. I've seen Tim once in the last 6 years, at a SLUG meeting. He saw me, and hasn't been going to those meetings since. Don't ask me... Cheers, -- jra -- Jay R. Ashworth jra@baylink.com Member of the Technical Staff Baylink The Suncoast Freenet The Things I Think Tampa Bay, Florida http://baylink.pitas.com +1 727 804 5015 From ricardo@rixhq.nu Tue Mar 20 05:57:26 2001 From: ricardo@rixhq.nu (Ricardo Kustner) Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 06:57:26 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] python 2.0 & mailman In-Reply-To: <7706.985063123@kanga.nu>; from claw@kanga.nu on Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 08:38:43PM -0800 References: <20010318231503.B28367@rix.rixhq.nu> <7706.985063123@kanga.nu> Message-ID: <20010320065726.A1123@rix.rixhq.nu> On Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 08:38:43PM -0800, J C Lawrence wrote: > On Sun, 18 Mar 2001 23:15:03 +0100 > Ricardo Kustner wrote: > > After almost a year of succesfull mailman usage, my server is > > starting to run into performance trouble again (probably due to an > > enormous increase in webtraffic and list subscribers). > What sort of performance troubles? What manifestations? loadaverages going sky-high when I approve a batch of messages on the list. One time the server even stopped responding and I had to travel to the ISP to push the reset button. For now it seems to work considerably ok, since I set postfix to relay all mail to a different server. Sometimes I need to restart postfix, apache and mysqld cause they can't recover by themselves. I think I'm going to buy a new 7200RPM disk since it's time to upgrade the software anyway (running Linux 2.0.38 and libc5 on an ancient slackware install :) still, all the apps are the latest & greatest) -- Regards, Ricardo -- International Janet Jackson fanclub called MISS JANET. For more information write to: Miss Janet. P.O.Box 10016, 1001 EA Amsterdam, The Netherlands Email: fanclub@miss-janet.com Check out our website: http://miss-janet.com From claw@kanga.nu Tue Mar 20 07:51:45 2001 From: claw@kanga.nu (J C Lawrence) Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 23:51:45 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] python 2.0 & mailman In-Reply-To: Message from Ricardo Kustner of "Tue, 20 Mar 2001 06:57:26 +0100." <20010320065726.A1123@rix.rixhq.nu> References: <20010318231503.B28367@rix.rixhq.nu> <7706.985063123@kanga.nu> <20010320065726.A1123@rix.rixhq.nu> Message-ID: <23611.985074705@kanga.nu> On Tue, 20 Mar 2001 06:57:26 +0100 Ricardo Kustner wrote: > On Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 08:38:43PM -0800, J C Lawrence wrote: >> What sort of performance troubles? What manifestations? > loadaverages going sky-high when I approve a batch of messages on > the list. When system load goes high, what does `top` say is hogging the process queue? What version of Mailman? How many lists? How many subscribers on the lists when you approve a message? What hardware? What OS? Local caching name server? NFS? > since I set postfix to relay all mail to a different > server. What is the value of default_destination_concurrency_limit in your postfix config? Is 127.0.0.1/8 specified in mynetworks? > Sometimes I need to restart postfix, apache and mysqld cause they > can't recover by themselves. What do you mean, "recover"? -- J C Lawrence claw@kanga.nu ---------(*) http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/ --=| A man is as sane as he is dangerous to his environment |=-- From darrell@grumblesmurf.net Tue Mar 20 08:11:52 2001 From: darrell@grumblesmurf.net (Darrell Fuhriman) Date: 20 Mar 2001 00:11:52 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Wildly OT - qmail and mangling (was: mailman and the web) In-Reply-To: "Jay R. Ashworth"'s message of "Tue, 20 Mar 2001 00:38:35 -0500" References: <4.2.2.20010312193934.00d10170@hollyjerry.org> <15028.60536.334661.193271@anthem.wooz.org> <4.2.2.20010318121307.00bf8c00@hollyjerry.org> <20010318223354.25893@scfn.thpl.lib.fl.us> <3480.985062986@kanga.nu> <20010320003835.22712@scfn.thpl.lib.fl.us> Message-ID: "Jay R. Ashworth" writes: > > While he reinvented common practice (a definite DJB-ism) he hardly > > violated any standard -- +-addressing is still mostly larval. > > Really? I've seen it for *years*. Ditto. I would also point out that + is much less commonly used in "real" addresses -- such as mailing-lists -- than a dash and thus makes it a better choice for implementing that feature, IMNSHO. Darrell From darrell@grumblesmurf.net Tue Mar 20 08:14:59 2001 From: darrell@grumblesmurf.net (Darrell Fuhriman) Date: 20 Mar 2001 00:14:59 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] python 2.0 & mailman In-Reply-To: Ricardo Kustner's message of "Tue, 20 Mar 2001 06:57:26 +0100" References: <20010318231503.B28367@rix.rixhq.nu> <7706.985063123@kanga.nu> <20010320065726.A1123@rix.rixhq.nu> Message-ID: Ricardo Kustner writes: > loadaverages going sky-high when I approve a batch of messages on the list. If possible, put the locks directory on a tmpfs partition or a ramdisk. Mailman is really hard on its lockfiles, and removing all those disk accesses will probably help. Of course, it does seem that it would be useful to have a 'don't run if the load average is above X' option in qrunner:TNG. Darrell From jra@baylink.com Tue Mar 20 16:15:08 2001 From: jra@baylink.com (Jay R. Ashworth) Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 11:15:08 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Wildly OT - qmail and mangling (was: mailman and the web) In-Reply-To: ; from Darrell Fuhriman on Tue, Mar 20, 2001 at 12:11:52AM -0800 References: <4.2.2.20010312193934.00d10170@hollyjerry.org> <15028.60536.334661.193271@anthem.wooz.org> <4.2.2.20010318121307.00bf8c00@hollyjerry.org> <20010318223354.25893@scfn.thpl.lib.fl.us> <3480.985062986@kanga.nu> <20010320003835.22712@scfn.thpl.lib.fl.us> Message-ID: <20010320111508.46491@scfn.thpl.lib.fl.us> On Tue, Mar 20, 2001 at 12:11:52AM -0800, Darrell Fuhriman wrote: > "Jay R. Ashworth" writes: > > > While he reinvented common practice (a definite DJB-ism) he hardly > > > violated any standard -- +-addressing is still mostly larval. > > > > Really? I've seen it for *years*. > > Ditto. I would also point out that + is much less commonly used > in "real" addresses -- such as mailing-lists -- than a dash and > thus makes it a better choice for implementing that feature, > IMNSHO. Concur, of course; hence the phrasing of my original posting. Cheers, - jra -- Jay R. Ashworth jra@baylink.com Member of the Technical Staff Baylink The Suncoast Freenet The Things I Think Tampa Bay, Florida http://baylink.pitas.com +1 727 804 5015 From chris@greatbridge.com Tue Mar 20 16:32:01 2001 From: chris@greatbridge.com (Chris Ryan) Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 11:32:01 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Mailman + DB: Snag References: <3AB0CC94.A798EDF1@greatbridge.com> Message-ID: <3AB78601.3C438BF5@greatbridge.com> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------57A9CB433680A9C255ED813D Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I worked through the problem (as described below) that I was encountering for the datasource driver stuff. I've attached a patch for your approval to be applied to the current cvs tree that changes the setattr and getattr functions in admin.py to call mlist.getProperty() mlist.setProperty() instead. Also includes the changes to add getProperty and setProperty to MailList.py. These changes will make it possible continue with the datasource driver development without needing and overhaul on the whole admin.py. At this time getProperty and setProperty just call getattr and setattr but when I start integrating the datasource driver code i will change it to an eval/exec of some kind to call the driver interface function instead. Chris Ryan chris@greatbridge.com Chris Ryan wrote: > > As a test I implemented a basic interface driver with mailman that > loaded the config.db and implemented the internalName() and realName() > methods. Everything worked fine which was good except one thing. > > The way the admin.py update the attributes does not work with the > interface driver. I'm trying to find a reasonable solution that would > allow the current code to work as it stands without having to overhaul > the entire web interface update code. > > One possible solution that I can think of is to replace the getattr() > setattr() methods that are currently used with a similar function that > would instead use a switched case on the variable to know which > attribute the get/set. > > for example: > > Current method: > property = 'real_name' > value = getattr(mlist,property,'some default') > > setattr(mlist,property, value) > > New method (concept): > > property = 'real_name' > value = mlist.getProperty(property,'some default') > > mlist.setProperty(property, value) > > def MailList.getProperty(self, property, default=None) > if property == 'real_name': > return self.list_data.realName() > elif property == '...': > elif property == '...': > else: > if default: > return default > else: > raise AttributeError > > I'll have to look through the python documentation to see if there is a > way to dynamically call a method as that would further simplify the > above. Does this sound reasonable? Or is there a better way to deal with > this problem? > > Chris Ryan > chris@greatbridge.org > > _______________________________________________ > Mailman-Developers mailing list > Mailman-Developers@python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers --------------57A9CB433680A9C255ED813D Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; name="getsetmod.diff" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline; filename="getsetmod.diff" Index: Mailman/MailList.py =================================================================== RCS file: /cvsroot/mailman/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py,v retrieving revision 2.9 diff -r2.9 MailList.py 1404a1405,1412 > > def setProperty(self,property, value): > setattr(self,property,value) > > def getProperty(self,property,default=None): > if default is None: > return getattr(self,property) > return getattr(self,property,default) Index: Mailman/Cgi/admin.py =================================================================== RCS file: /cvsroot/mailman/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/admin.py,v retrieving revision 2.10 diff -r2.10 admin.py 516c516 < checked = getattr(mlist, varname) --- > checked = mlist.getProperty(varname) 522c522 < return TextBox(varname, getattr(mlist, varname), params) --- > return TextBox(varname, mlist.getProperty(varname), params) 528c528 < val = getattr(mlist, varname) --- > val = mlist.getProperty(varname) 537c537 < res = NL.join(getattr(mlist, varname)) --- > res = NL.join(mlist.getProperty(varname)) 545c545 < val = getattr(mlist, varname) --- > val = mlist.getProperty(varname) 787c787 < return getattr(mlist, prop) --- > return mlist.getProperty(prop) 811c811 < return getattr(mlist, prop) --- > return mlist.getProperty(prop) 892c892 < elif getattr(mlist, property) <> value: --- > elif mlist.getProperty(property) <> value: 908c908 < setattr(mlist, property, value) --- > mlist.setProperty(property, value) --------------57A9CB433680A9C255ED813D-- From ricardo@rixhq.nu Tue Mar 20 21:40:12 2001 From: ricardo@rixhq.nu (Ricardo Kustner) Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 22:40:12 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Mailman + DB: Snag In-Reply-To: <3AB78601.3C438BF5@greatbridge.com>; from chris@greatbridge.com on Tue, Mar 20, 2001 at 11:32:01AM -0500 References: <3AB0CC94.A798EDF1@greatbridge.com> <3AB78601.3C438BF5@greatbridge.com> Message-ID: <20010320224012.D3390@rix.rixhq.nu> On Tue, Mar 20, 2001 at 11:32:01AM -0500, Chris Ryan wrote: > I worked through the problem (as described below) that I was > encountering for the datasource driver stuff. I've attached a patch for > your approval to be applied to the current cvs tree that changes the > setattr and getattr functions in admin.py to call mlist.getProperty() > mlist.setProperty() instead. Also includes the changes to add > getProperty and setProperty to MailList.py. These changes will make it > possible continue with the datasource driver development without needing > and overhaul on the whole admin.py. Even though Barry can answer for himself, I know what his answer will probably be (partly) :) please upload the patch to sourceforge.net, so he can find it back easily... -- Regards, Ricardo From thomas@xs4all.net Wed Mar 21 15:27:34 2001 From: thomas@xs4all.net (Thomas Wouters) Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 16:27:34 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Mailman + DB: Snag In-Reply-To: <20010320224012.D3390@rix.rixhq.nu>; from ricardo@rixhq.nu on Tue, Mar 20, 2001 at 10:40:12PM +0100 References: <3AB0CC94.A798EDF1@greatbridge.com> <3AB78601.3C438BF5@greatbridge.com> <20010320224012.D3390@rix.rixhq.nu> Message-ID: <20010321162734.S29286@xs4all.nl> On Tue, Mar 20, 2001 at 10:40:12PM +0100, Ricardo Kustner wrote: > On Tue, Mar 20, 2001 at 11:32:01AM -0500, Chris Ryan wrote: > > I worked through the problem (as described below) that I was > > encountering for the datasource driver stuff. I've attached a patch for > > your approval to be applied to the current cvs tree that changes the > > setattr and getattr functions in admin.py to call mlist.getProperty() > > mlist.setProperty() instead. Also includes the changes to add > > getProperty and setProperty to MailList.py. These changes will make it > > possible continue with the datasource driver development without needing > > and overhaul on the whole admin.py. > Even though Barry can answer for himself, I know what his answer will probably > be (partly) :) please upload the patch to sourceforge.net, so he > can find it back easily... And upload it as a context or unified diff, please. (use diff -c or diff -u. I prefer -c myself, and Barry should too ;) -- Thomas Wouters Hi! I'm a .signature virus! copy me into your .signature file to help me spread! From chris@greatbridge.com Wed Mar 21 15:58:03 2001 From: chris@greatbridge.com (Chris Ryan) Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 10:58:03 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Mailman + DB: Snag References: <3AB0CC94.A798EDF1@greatbridge.com> <3AB78601.3C438BF5@greatbridge.com> <20010320224012.D3390@rix.rixhq.nu> <20010321162734.S29286@xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <3AB8CF8B.C7D69840@greatbridge.com> I have uploaded the patch on to Sourceforge.net as requested and in context format. Thanks for the heads up and info on these. Chris Ryan chris@greatbridge.com Thomas Wouters wrote: > > On Tue, Mar 20, 2001 at 10:40:12PM +0100, Ricardo Kustner wrote: > > On Tue, Mar 20, 2001 at 11:32:01AM -0500, Chris Ryan wrote: > > > I worked through the problem (as described below) that I was > > > encountering for the datasource driver stuff. I've attached a patch for > > > your approval to be applied to the current cvs tree that changes the > > > setattr and getattr functions in admin.py to call mlist.getProperty() > > > mlist.setProperty() instead. Also includes the changes to add > > > getProperty and setProperty to MailList.py. These changes will make it > > > possible continue with the datasource driver development without needing > > > and overhaul on the whole admin.py. > > > Even though Barry can answer for himself, I know what his answer will probably > > be (partly) :) please upload the patch to sourceforge.net, so he > > can find it back easily... > > And upload it as a context or unified diff, please. (use diff -c or diff -u. > I prefer -c myself, and Barry should too ;) > > -- > Thomas Wouters > > Hi! I'm a .signature virus! copy me into your .signature file to help me spread! From claw@kanga.nu Wed Mar 21 20:01:14 2001 From: claw@kanga.nu (J C Lawrence) Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 12:01:14 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Wildly OT - qmail and mangling (was: mailman and the web) In-Reply-To: Message from "Jay R. Ashworth" of "Tue, 20 Mar 2001 00:38:35 EST." <20010320003835.22712@scfn.thpl.lib.fl.us> References: <4.2.2.20010312193934.00d10170@hollyjerry.org> <15028.60536.334661.193271@anthem.wooz.org> <4.2.2.20010318121307.00bf8c00@hollyjerry.org> <20010318223354.25893@scfn.thpl.lib.fl.us> <3480.985062986@kanga.nu> <20010320003835.22712@scfn.thpl.lib.fl.us> Message-ID: <2684.985204874@kanga.nu> On Tue, 20 Mar 2001 00:38:35 -0500 Jay R Ashworth wrote: > On Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 08:36:26PM -0800, J C Lawrence wrote: >> > Typical djb mistake. >> >> While he reinvented common practice (a definite DJB-ism) he >> hardly violated any standard -- +-addressing is still mostly >> larval. > Really? I've seen it for *years*. Similarly. Its penetration in terms of actual use has been damned small to near non-existant up until about 15 months ago however. Thus, on account of lacking critical mass, I account it larval. >> Every MTA I'm aware of that supports +-addressing mandates having >> the extension character set as part of the feature configuration. > Do that again? I fell off. 1) There are MTAs which either directly or through patch support what I'll loosely call +-addressing. 2) For each of those MTAs configuring +-addressing requires that you explicitly define the character to be used in segmenting the address. 3) None of these MTAs per se has a default +-addressing character from which the config may specify a deviation. Instead, the +-addressing character must be explicitly stated as part of the feature enebling. >> I've seen both '-' and '+' commonly used over tha last decade ro >> so outside of DJB circles. IIRC the early Sendmail patches for >> +-addressing used '-' by default until enough people yelled at >> Eric that it was too confusing and tended to screw up their other >> scripts. > I see. Quite. >>> Tampa Bay, Florida http://baylink.pitas.com +1 727 804 5015 >> >> Do Tim et al still do the Weds night/Sunday brunch meets? > Oh. Hey, Carnage. I wouldn't begin to know. I've seen Tim once > in the last 6 years, at a SLUG meeting. He saw me, and hasn't > been going to those meetings since. I heard rumours for a while (semi-regularly exchange mail with Wilson and a couple old messages with Beach). I ran into Tim via email a few years back ('98?) who AIR wrote something quite ambiguous and then didn't reply further. I haven't been back to FL since 97 -- am a little curious. -- J C Lawrence claw@kanga.nu ---------(*) http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/ --=| A man is as sane as he is dangerous to his environment |=-- From larryr@linux.com Thu Mar 22 03:19:41 2001 From: larryr@linux.com (Larry Reckner) Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 22:19:41 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Easily customisable webmin templating Message-ID: Hello: I've seen this touced upon while searching through the various mailing lists for mailman, however I don't know if I've seen a solution (if so, plesae point me in the right direction and I'll be more than happy to run with that). Anyway, my situation is that I sysadmin for a web hosting company and one of the things that we do is provide shared services like email and now lists. I've written a small wrapper that will take care of the /etc/aliases part of setting up mailman for multiple virtual domains as well as the httpd.conf file, the mailman specific configs and so on. The part I'm stuck on is this. Basically, my web developers want to be able to customize the webmin interface on an individual client-by-client basis (by any means possible be it stylesheets, xml, etc) but they are finding it very difficult because of the heavy python integration and the outside scripts that re-write headers, footers, etc. I'm trying to learn python in order to deal with their request to make this easy to do, however I'm under severe pressure to get it done yesterday, and I could use some help. I've looked into ht2html to do this, but I fear that it's not quite working like I'd like. Any advice/tips/etc would be *extremely* appreciated and I'd be grateful. Thanks, --Larry ----- Larry Reckner larry@5points.net Systems Administrator Voice: 518.465.5505 5points.net LLC Cell: 518.852.2944 Linux.com Tuneup Author larryr@linux.com From barry@digicool.com Thu Mar 22 03:39:01 2001 From: barry@digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw) Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 22:39:01 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] List of list admins References: <3A407B35.C7A1DD00@uma.es> Message-ID: <15033.29653.886924.249826@anthem.wooz.org> Juan Carlos, I like this! I'm going to add it to the Mailman 2.1 tree (with a few modifications). Thanks! -Barry From jra@baylink.com Thu Mar 22 15:49:34 2001 From: jra@baylink.com (Jay R. Ashworth) Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 10:49:34 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Wildly OT - qmail and mangling (was: mailman and the web) In-Reply-To: <2684.985204874@kanga.nu>; from J C Lawrence on Wed, Mar 21, 2001 at 12:01:14PM -0800 References: <4.2.2.20010312193934.00d10170@hollyjerry.org> <15028.60536.334661.193271@anthem.wooz.org> <4.2.2.20010318121307.00bf8c00@hollyjerry.org> <20010318223354.25893@scfn.thpl.lib.fl.us> <3480.985062986@kanga.nu> <20010320003835.22712@scfn.thpl.lib.fl.us> <2684.985204874@kanga.nu> Message-ID: <20010322104934.11141@scfn.thpl.lib.fl.us> On Wed, Mar 21, 2001 at 12:01:14PM -0800, J C Lawrence wrote: > >> While he reinvented common practice (a definite DJB-ism) he > >> hardly violated any standard -- +-addressing is still mostly > >> larval. > > > Really? I've seen it for *years*. > > Similarly. Its penetration in terms of actual use has been damned > small to near non-existant up until about 15 months ago however. > Thus, on account of lacking critical mass, I account it larval. Huh. I guess I hang out on geekier mailing lists than the average bear... > >> Every MTA I'm aware of that supports +-addressing mandates having > >> the extension character set as part of the feature configuration. > > > Do that again? I fell off. > > 1) There are MTAs which either directly or through patch support > what I'll loosely call +-addressing. > > 2) For each of those MTAs configuring +-addressing requires that you > explicitly define the character to be used in segmenting the > address. > > 3) None of these MTAs per se has a default +-addressing character > from which the config may specify a deviation. Instead, the > +-addressing character must be explicitly stated as part of the > feature enebling. Ah. I *had* thought it was standard in sendmail; I'll have to go doube check that. > > Oh. Hey, Carnage. I wouldn't begin to know. I've seen Tim once > > in the last 6 years, at a SLUG meeting. He saw me, and hasn't > > been going to those meetings since. > > I heard rumours for a while (semi-regularly exchange mail with > Wilson and a couple old messages with Beach). I ran into Tim via > email a few years back ('98?) who AIR wrote something quite > ambiguous and then didn't reply further. I haven't been back to FL > since 97 -- am a little curious. Nope; don't regularly see any of that crowd anymore... Cheers, -- jra -- Jay R. Ashworth jra@baylink.com Member of the Technical Staff Baylink The Suncoast Freenet The Things I Think Tampa Bay, Florida http://baylink.pitas.com +1 727 804 5015 From efernandezor@antena3tv.es Fri Mar 23 12:21:04 2001 From: efernandezor@antena3tv.es (efernandezor@antena3tv.es) Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 13:21:04 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Server's list change Message-ID: Hi again. Sorry, I want to know how change one list of machine, but I don't want to put all users again. I want to change the list and the list's users at time. Do you know ?? Thanks very much. From tollef@add.no Sat Mar 24 00:18:00 2001 From: tollef@add.no (Tollef Fog Heen) Date: 24 Mar 2001 01:18:00 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Patch for making digest_arch a bit less stupid Message-ID: <874rwkf29z.fsf@arabella.intern.opera.no> I am applying the following patch to the debian package of mailman unless somebody screams loudly. It will close debian bug #59359 ( http://www.debian.org/59359 ). --- bin/digest_arch~ Tue Mar 21 07:26:18 2000 +++ bin/digest_arch Sat Mar 24 01:14:51 2001 @@ -90,7 +90,7 @@ last_dow = days_of_week.index(dow) if len(year) == 2: - year = '19' + year + year = 1900 + year # some MUAs are stupid outfile.write("From %s %s %s %s %s %s\n" % (From, dow, mon, day, time, year)) # print "From %s %s %s %s %s %s" % (From, dow, mon, day, time, year) -- Tollef Fog Heen Unix _IS_ user friendly... It's just selective about who its friends are. From ckgrimm@qx.net Sat Mar 24 02:20:40 2001 From: ckgrimm@qx.net (Clifton Grimm) Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 21:20:40 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] sending mail has wrong domain Message-ID: <4.2.2.20010323211059.013f35e8@mail.qx.net> Hello all - I have tried to do everything I can think of to fix this one, so I throw it out to you all... I have a machine running RH7 and sendmail (default install). I have 2 domain names assoc. with the box: let's say: foo.com and bar.com foo.com is the hostname I used to setup the box - and there are users with email accounts on foo.com that can use the system no problem, POP and locally - all mail is delivered fine, and all headers are correct. bar.com is a virtual host - the machine responds to it, apache is setup to listen to it, and sendmail responds just fine as well. I have a list on bar.com, setup in its own directory, and the list@bar.com list delivers mail to its recipients with no problem. BUT: list@bar.com sends mail that has headers saying the sender is list-admin@foo.com. If an admin request goes thru, the from is list-request@foo.com. If I look into the headers, I see that the sendmail requests were initiated by mailman (which is correct) but at foo.com, not at bar.com. I think this may have something to do with those headers getting written incorrectly. I had a VERY similar setup on a RH6 system (actually the same box before the catastrophic HD crash) and it delivered mail with no incorrect headers. I just can't seem to remember what was different about my setup. In summation: 2 domains, list mail gets delivered as wrong domain sender - right user alias, wrong domain. Hmmm. Help? Thanks in advance. Clifton Grimm ckgrimm@qx.net From ckgrimm@qx.net Sat Mar 24 04:02:27 2001 From: ckgrimm@qx.net (Clifton Grimm) Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 23:02:27 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] sending mail has wrong domain - FIXED Message-ID: <4.2.2.20010323225431.013c9350@mail.qx.net> Hello all Well, never mind. :) I have solved my problem with just about 2 hours work - For those who are interested on how to fix this problem: 1. Read suggestions at list.org 2. Uninstall sendmail 3. Read instructions for postfix 4. Download and install postfix 5. Migrate virtual hosts 6. Have a restful night. I have been fighting sendmail for 2 weeks now...and in 2 hours, I'm happy and done. RTFM for sure.... Clifton Grimm From barry@digicool.com Sat Mar 24 05:11:13 2001 From: barry@digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw) Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2001 00:11:13 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Patch for making digest_arch a bit less stupid References: <874rwkf29z.fsf@arabella.intern.opera.no> Message-ID: <15036.11377.920364.210833@anthem.wooz.org> >>>>> "TFH" == Tollef Fog Heen writes: TFH> I am applying the following patch to the debian package of TFH> mailman unless somebody screams loudly. It will close debian TFH> bug #59359 ( http://www.debian.org/59359 ). Tollef, do you have a working URL for that? It comes up "not found" for me. | --- bin/digest_arch~ Tue Mar 21 07:26:18 2000 | +++ bin/digest_arch Sat Mar 24 01:14:51 2001 | @@ -90,7 +90,7 @@ | last_dow = days_of_week.index(dow) | if len(year) == 2: | - year = '19' + year | + year = 1900 + year # some MUAs are stupid I'd like to know what it fixes, but you should be aware that bin/digest_arch is quite unmaintained. If you find it useful and that patch makes sense, I'll integrate it with the current CVS tree. I've never personally made any substantive change to that file. -Barry From tollef@add.no Sat Mar 24 01:58:14 2001 From: tollef@add.no (Tollef Fog Heen) Date: 24 Mar 2001 02:58:14 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Per-user monthly password reminders [Patch] Message-ID: <87r8zoc4i1.fsf@arabella.intern.opera.no> This is a patch against 2.0.3 to enable per-user monthly password reminders. This is a _very_ sought-after feature request from the Debian community. :) As I don't have CVS access, I'd appreciate if somebody could review and apply. Thanks. :) --- mailman-2.0.3.orig/Mailman/Defaults.py.in +++ mailman-2.0.3/Mailman/Defaults.py.in @@ -531,6 +531,7 @@ AcknowledgePosts = 4 DisableMime = 8 # Digesters only ConcealSubscription = 16 +PasswordReminder = 32 # Useful directories LIST_DATA_DIR = os.path.join(VAR_PREFIX, 'lists') --- mailman-2.0.3.orig/Mailman/Cgi/options.py +++ mailman-2.0.3/Mailman/Cgi/options.py @@ -113,6 +113,11 @@ 'setdigest', 'Submit My Changes') replacements[''] = ( mlist.FormatButton('unsub', 'Unsubscribe')) + replacements[''] = mlist.FormatOptionButton( + mm_cfg.PasswordReminder, 1, user) + replacements[''] = mlist.FormatOptionButton( + mm_cfg.PasswordReminder, 0, user) + replacements[''] = mlist.FormatSecureBox('digpw') replacements[''] = mlist.FormatSecureBox('upw') replacements[''] = mlist.FormatSecureBox('opw') --- mailman-2.0.3.orig/Mailman/Cgi/handle_opts.py +++ mailman-2.0.3/Mailman/Cgi/handle_opts.py @@ -222,6 +222,7 @@ dont_receive = getval('dontreceive', useropt(user, mm_cfg.DontReceiveOwnPosts)) ack_posts = getval('ackposts', useropt(user, mm_cfg.AcknowledgePosts)) + remind_pass = getval('remindpass', useropt(user, mm_cfg.PasswordReminder)) disable_mail = getval('disablemail', useropt(user, mm_cfg.DisableDelivery)) conceal = getval('conceal', useropt(user, mm_cfg.ConcealSubscription)) @@ -260,6 +261,7 @@ mlist.SetUserOption(user, mm_cfg.DisableDelivery, disable_mail) mlist.SetUserOption(user, mm_cfg.DontReceiveOwnPosts, dont_receive) mlist.SetUserOption(user, mm_cfg.AcknowledgePosts, ack_posts) + mlist.SetUserOption(user, mm_cfg.PasswordReminder, remind_pass) mlist.SetUserOption(user, mm_cfg.DisableMime, mime) msg = 'You have successfully set your options.' try: --- mailman-2.0.3.orig/Mailman/HTMLFormatter.py +++ mailman-2.0.3/Mailman/HTMLFormatter.py @@ -120,7 +120,8 @@ mm_cfg.DisableMime : "mime", mm_cfg.AcknowledgePosts : "ackposts", mm_cfg.Digests : "digest", - mm_cfg.ConcealSubscription : "conceal" + mm_cfg.ConcealSubscription : "conceal", + mm_cfg.PasswordReminder : "remindpass", }[type] import sys return ('' --- mailman-2.0.3.orig/templates/options.html +++ mailman-2.0.3/templates/options.html @@ -139,6 +139,11 @@ Yes

          + Get monthly password reminders?
          + Yes + No

          + + Password:

          -- Tollef Fog Heen Unix _IS_ user friendly... It's just selective about who its friends are. From tollef@add.no Sat Mar 24 09:50:59 2001 From: tollef@add.no (Tollef Fog Heen) Date: 24 Mar 2001 10:50:59 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Patch for making digest_arch a bit less stupid In-Reply-To: <15036.11377.920364.210833@anthem.wooz.org> References: <874rwkf29z.fsf@arabella.intern.opera.no> <15036.11377.920364.210833@anthem.wooz.org> Message-ID: <87itkzcx6k.fsf@arabella.intern.opera.no> * (Barry A. Warsaw) | >>>>> "TFH" == Tollef Fog Heen writes: | | TFH> I am applying the following patch to the debian package of | TFH> mailman unless somebody screams loudly. It will close debian | TFH> bug #59359 ( http://www.debian.org/59359 ). | | Tollef, do you have a working URL for that? It comes up "not found" | for me. s/www/bugs/ sorry - a bit late in the evening. | | --- bin/digest_arch~ Tue Mar 21 07:26:18 2000 | | +++ bin/digest_arch Sat Mar 24 01:14:51 2001 | | @@ -90,7 +90,7 @@ | | last_dow = days_of_week.index(dow) | | | if len(year) == 2: | | - year = '19' + year | | + year = 1900 + year # some MUAs are stupid | | I'd like to know what it fixes, but you should be aware that | bin/digest_arch is quite unmaintained. If you find it useful and that | patch makes sense, I'll integrate it with the current CVS tree. I've | never personally made any substantive change to that file. I don't use it, but I have a bug report about "mailman archiver not handling years like '100'". And the patch needs a fix :/ --- bin/digest_arch~ Tue Mar 21 07:26:18 2000 +++ bin/digest_arch Sat Mar 24 01:14:51 2001 @@ -90,7 +90,7 @@ last_dow = days_of_week.index(dow) if len(year) == 2: - year = '19' + year + year = 1900 + int(year) # some MUAs are stupid and the line outfile.write("From %s %s %s %s %s %s\n" % (From, dow, mon, day, time, year)) needs to be changed to outfile.write("From %s %s %s %s %s %4d\n" % (From, dow, mon, day, time, year)) . If this isn't used at all any more, I'll just close the bug report, and you can ignore this patch. -- Tollef Fog Heen Unix _IS_ user friendly... It's just selective about who its friends are. From barry@digicool.com Mon Mar 26 00:03:24 2001 From: barry@digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw) Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2001 19:03:24 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Patch for making digest_arch a bit less stupid References: <874rwkf29z.fsf@arabella.intern.opera.no> <15036.11377.920364.210833@anthem.wooz.org> <87itkzcx6k.fsf@arabella.intern.opera.no> Message-ID: <15038.34636.687217.769121@anthem.wooz.org> >>>>> "TFH" == Tollef Fog Heen writes: TFH> I don't use it, but I have a bug report about "mailman TFH> archiver not handling years like '100'". TFH> And the patch needs a fix :/ | --- bin/digest_arch~ Tue Mar 21 07:26:18 2000 | +++ bin/digest_arch Sat Mar 24 01:14:51 2001 | @@ -90,7 +90,7 @@ | last_dow = days_of_week.index(dow) | if len(year) == 2: | - year = '19' + year | + year = 1900 + int(year) # some MUAs are stupid TFH> If this isn't used at all any more, I'll just close the bug TFH> report, and you can ignore this patch. I've applied the patch, but not tested it, since digest_arch is deprecated. You can go ahead and close the debian bug. Other than this, Mailman 2.x's archiver should handle dates < 100 "properly". Thanks, -Barry From matthewa@Physics.usyd.edu.au Wed Mar 28 12:55:48 2001 From: matthewa@Physics.usyd.edu.au (Matthew Arnison) Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 22:55:48 +1000 (EST) Subject: [Mailman-Developers] feature request: list activity indicators Message-ID: hi folks i think a great feature for mailman would be some indication of how busy a list on the web page showing all the lists. (e.g. this page: http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo) e.g. 15 messages a day, or 3 messages a week, or 2 messages a month (averaged over the past month) this would listed as a new column between the name of the list and the one-line description. i don't know anything about the internals of mailman, but i think it would be really useful info for people to know. cheers, matthew. From thomas@xs4all.net Wed Mar 28 13:18:38 2001 From: thomas@xs4all.net (Thomas Wouters) Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 15:18:38 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Per-user monthly password reminders [Patch] In-Reply-To: <87r8zoc4i1.fsf@arabella.intern.opera.no>; from tollef@add.no on Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 02:58:14AM +0100 References: <87r8zoc4i1.fsf@arabella.intern.opera.no> Message-ID: <20010328151838.H13066@xs4all.nl> On Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 02:58:14AM +0100, Tollef Fog Heen wrote: > This is a patch against 2.0.3 to enable per-user monthly password > reminders. This is a _very_ sought-after feature request from the > Debian community. :) > As I don't have CVS access, I'd appreciate if somebody could review > and apply. Thanks. :) Hm, I'm personaly against adding more user-specific options per-list, but I guess this one could be list-specific anyway, even after we get a real user-database. I guess it's up to Barry ;) As for the patch, I suggest you upload it to Sourceforge, which is where Mailman is hosed. Submit enough sensible patches and you might get CVS write access, eventually ;) -- Thomas Wouters Hi! I'm a .signature virus! copy me into your .signature file to help me spread! From thomas@xs4all.net Wed Mar 28 13:24:08 2001 From: thomas@xs4all.net (Thomas Wouters) Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 15:24:08 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Per-user monthly password reminders [Patch] In-Reply-To: <20010328151838.H13066@xs4all.nl>; from thomas@xs4all.net on Wed, Mar 28, 2001 at 03:18:38PM +0200 References: <87r8zoc4i1.fsf@arabella.intern.opera.no> <20010328151838.H13066@xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <20010328152408.I13066@xs4all.nl> On Wed, Mar 28, 2001 at 03:18:38PM +0200, Thomas Wouters wrote: > I suggest you upload it to Sourceforge, which is where Mailman is hosed. What a wicked, wicked typo! I meant to say 'hosted'. Really I did! -- Thomas Wouters Hi! I'm a .signature virus! copy me into your .signature file to help me spread! From barry@digicool.com Wed Mar 28 16:08:44 2001 From: barry@digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw) Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 11:08:44 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Per-user monthly password reminders [Patch] References: <87r8zoc4i1.fsf@arabella.intern.opera.no> <20010328151838.H13066@xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <15042.3212.427064.776123@anthem.wooz.org> >>>>> "TW" == Thomas Wouters writes: TW> As for the patch, I suggest you upload it to Sourceforge, TW> which is where Mailman is hosed. ----------------------------------^^^^^ Freudian slip, eh Thomas? :) From ptimmons@courriel.polymtl.ca Wed Mar 28 23:26:09 2001 From: ptimmons@courriel.polymtl.ca (Patrick Timmons) Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 18:26:09 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Problem with mailman-2.1a1, syntax error in bin/update : print >> sys.stderr ... Message-ID: <3AC27311.693808D@courriel.polymtl.ca> Hi. This is the error I get when I try to do a ./configure of mailman-2.1a1: Compiling /home/mailm21/Mailman/versions.py ... File "bin/update", line 81 print >> sys.stderr, 'Fixing language templates:', mlist.internal_name() ^ SyntaxError: invalid syntax File "bin/check_perms", line 96 arg.ERRORS += 1 ^ SyntaxError: invalid syntax I tried with python 2.0 and python 2.1b1 and same result. Here is how I made python 2.0: ./configure make make test make altinstall I installed mimelib 0.2 downloaded over the weekend: python2.0 setup.py install And verified the install as per the doc I tried to install mailman-2.1a1 (downloaded today) with: ./configure --prefix=/home/mailm21 --with-username=mailm21 --with-groupname=mailm21 --with-python=/usr/local/bin/python2.0 --with-mail-gid=daemon I tried with and without PYTHONPATH=/usr/local/lib/python2.0 I'm on Linux. -- Patrick Timmons, service informatique From barry@digicool.com Thu Mar 29 02:45:08 2001 From: barry@digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw) Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 21:45:08 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Problem with mailman-2.1a1, syntax error in bin/update : print >> sys.stderr ... References: <3AC27311.693808D@courriel.polymtl.ca> Message-ID: <15042.41396.797377.993500@anthem.wooz.org> >>>>> "PT" == Patrick Timmons writes: PT> I tried with python 2.0 and python 2.1b1 and same result. PT> Here is how I made python 2.0: | ./configure | make | make test | make altinstall I'm not even sure what "make altinstall" does. ;) These error sure point to Mailman finding an earlier version of Python than 2.0. -Barry From barry@digicool.com Thu Mar 29 04:15:36 2001 From: barry@digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw) Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 23:15:36 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Headers and footers for MIME messages Message-ID: <15042.46824.976889.309145@anthem.wooz.org> I've got a bit of a dilemma that I'd like to get your opinion on. In MM2.1, I can be more sane about adding headers and footers to messages that flow through a list, especially when it comes to MIME messages. Here are the cases I've identified: 1. A message comes in that is either text/plain or has no Content-Type. In that case, I can just textually prepend any header and append any footer. This is essentially what MM2.0.x does for all messages. 2. A message comes in that's multipart/mixed. That's easy too, since we can just add the header and footers as additional text/plain subparts. 3. A message comes in that has some other main Content-Type than "multipart", e.g. image/gif. This is a little tricker, but what I think you can do is transform the container message into a multipart/mixed, add the header and footers as subparts, and create a new subpart for the original message payload. You'd need to copy the body of the original message, plus any Content-* headers, into the subpart, but I think you leave all other headers in the container alone. 4. A message comes in that is multipart/* but not multipart/mixed. What to do here? I suppose we could play the same trick as #3, but it seems like an awful lot of work and potentially error prone. Maybe not though. Alternatively, we could add the header and footer to any existing preamble and epilogue, although they'll get hidden by most MIME-aware MUAs. Or we could simply not add headers and footers for #3 and/or #4. Let's assume for the moment that MM2.1 will have facilities to hold, discard, chop apart, etc. MIME messages and that we're talking about messages that are allowed to go though the list untouched. Any other suggestions? Any preferences? -Barry From csf@moscow.com Thu Mar 29 05:04:55 2001 From: csf@moscow.com (Michael Yount) Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 21:04:55 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Headers and footers for MIME messages In-Reply-To: <15042.46824.976889.309145@anthem.wooz.org>; from barry@digicool.com on Wed, Mar 28, 2001 at 11:15:36PM -0500 References: <15042.46824.976889.309145@anthem.wooz.org> Message-ID: <20010328210455.A482@moscow.com> On 28 Mar 23:15, Barry A. Warsaw wrote: > 2. A message comes in that's multipart/mixed. That's easy too, since > we can just add the header and footers as additional text/plain > subparts. If the first body part is text/plain, would you prefer to add the header or footer directly to it, instead of using separate parts? Michael > > Any other suggestions? Any preferences? > -Barry > > _______________________________________________ > Mailman-Developers mailing list > Mailman-Developers@python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers > > From barry@digicool.com Thu Mar 29 05:02:05 2001 From: barry@digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw) Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2001 00:02:05 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Headers and footers for MIME messages References: <15042.46824.976889.309145@anthem.wooz.org> <20010328210455.A482@moscow.com> Message-ID: <15042.49613.796959.347610@anthem.wooz.org> >>>>> "MY" == Michael Yount writes: >> On 28 Mar 23:15, Barry A. Warsaw wrote: >> 2. A message comes in that's multipart/mixed. That's easy too, >> since we can just add the header and footers as additional >> text/plain subparts. MY> If the first body part is text/plain, would you prefer to add MY> the header or footer directly to it, instead of using separate MY> parts? I don't know. I'm a bit loathe to drill down too far into the subparts, but just because I think it'll make the algorithm for searching where to add the headers/footers more complicated than it needs to be. -Barry From tollef@add.no Thu Mar 29 13:44:45 2001 From: tollef@add.no (Tollef Fog Heen) Date: 29 Mar 2001 15:44:45 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Per-user monthly password reminders [Patch] In-Reply-To: <20010328151838.H13066@xs4all.nl> References: <87r8zoc4i1.fsf@arabella.intern.opera.no> <20010328151838.H13066@xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <87ofukwuya.fsf@arabella.intern.opera.no> * Thomas Wouters | Hm, I'm personaly against adding more user-specific options per-list, but I | guess this one could be list-specific anyway, even after we get a real | user-database. I guess it's up to Barry ;) Pretty please with sugar on top? :-) | As for the patch, I suggest you upload it to Sourceforge, which is where | Mailman is hosed. ^^^^^ *cough* done. :) -- Tollef Fog Heen Unix _IS_ user friendly... It's just selective about who its friends are. From scott-brown@home.com Thu Mar 29 23:04:04 2001 From: scott-brown@home.com (Scott Brown) Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2001 18:04:04 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] I seem to have found a bug.... In-Reply-To: <87ofukwuya.fsf@arabella.intern.opera.no> Message-ID: <008901c0b8a4$8d893260$0401a8c0@ibmpeers> admin(11159): [----- Mailman Version: 2.0.1 -----] admin(11159): [----- Traceback ------] admin(11159): Traceback (most recent call last): admin(11159): File "/home/mailman/scripts/driver", line 96, in run_main admin(11159): main() admin(11159): File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/handle_opts.py", line 73, in main admin(11159): process_form(mlist, user, doc) admin(11159): File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/handle_opts.py", line 100, in process_form admin(11159): mlist.DeleteMember(user, "web cmd") admin(11159): File "/home/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 1182, in DeleteMember admin(11159): self.ClearBounceInfo(name) admin(11159): File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Bouncer.py", line 86, in ClearBounceInfo admin(11159): if self.bounce_info.has_key(email): admin(11159): AttributeError: 'tuple' object has no attribute 'has_key' I ran into this when I was trying to unsub a member (I unchecked his checkbox), and add a new address at the same time (yes, I was changing a member's email address ;-) I've sub'ed it to sourceforge, but it was misbehaving at the time (php errors on and off...), so I'm not sure it "took" FYI From andrewm@connect.com.au Fri Mar 30 02:20:05 2001 From: andrewm@connect.com.au (Andrew McNamara) Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2001 12:20:05 +1000 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Headers and footers for MIME messages In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 28 Mar 2001 23:15:36 EST." <15042.46824.976889.309145@anthem.wooz.org> Message-ID: <20010330022005.4687128593@wawura.off.connect.com.au> >3. A message comes in that has some other main Content-Type than > "multipart", e.g. image/gif. This is a little tricker, but what I > think you can do is transform the container message into a > multipart/mixed, add the header and footers as subparts, and create > a new subpart for the original message payload. You'd need to copy > the body of the original message, plus any Content-* headers, into > the subpart, but I think you leave all other headers in the > container alone. I'd consider it slight offensive to send random binary objects to a mailing list without any lead-in text/plain explanation, but I can imagine a special purpose list that would want to do this (but would they want headers and footers attached?). A straight text/html message is probably the most common problem case - the swiss-army-knife of list software would probably have the header and footer as html, and convert to text/plain when necessary (yuk). There are another of other options people will ask for: convert text/html to text/plain, bounce text/html back to sender, etc. You may think this is well outside the scope of what you were intending to implement, but the worm-can has been opened by adding mime support and people won't let you rest until your software makes breakfast in bed for them. You'll soon end up with a complex language for specifying things like "accept binary attachments only if preceeded by a text/plain", etc.. 8-) BTW, I think there's a special mime type for headers and footers - text/plain isn't the right one. Can't remember off the top of my head. >4. A message comes in that is multipart/* but not multipart/mixed. > What to do here? I suppose we could play the same trick as > #3, but it seems like an awful lot of work and potentially error > prone. Maybe not though. Alternatively, we could add the header > and footer to any existing preamble and epilogue, although they'll > get hidden by most MIME-aware MUAs. The big one being multipart/alternative, of course, which typically contains a text/plain and a text/html. The safest rules would be: - if it's not a mime message, do the old thing. - if it's mime, and it's not already a multipart/mixed, create a text/multipart with header/original mime/footer. - it it's mime, and and multipart/mixed, simply insert and append the header and footer parts. Messing with the text/plain part is vaguely attractive, although conceivably it could break things (smime? dunno). --- Andrew McNamara (System Architect) connect.com.au Pty Ltd Lvl 3, 213 Miller St, North Sydney, NSW 2060, Australia Phone: +61 2 9409 2117, Fax: +61 2 9409 2111 From ptimmons@courriel.polymtl.ca Fri Mar 30 18:35:05 2001 From: ptimmons@courriel.polymtl.ca (Patrick Timmons) Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2001 13:35:05 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Problem with mailman-2.1a1, syntax error in bin/update : print >>sys.stderr ... References: <3AC27311.693808D@courriel.polymtl.ca> <15042.41396.797377.993500@anthem.wooz.org> Message-ID: <3AC4D1D9.637F9E6C@courriel.polymtl.ca> Hi. I made a hard link to python2.0 and named it /usr/local/bin/python and it worked. Thanks. I was under the impression that I could use option --with-python=/usr/local/bin/python2.0 with configure where /usr/local/bin/python2.0 is the python interpreter. Is this option used to point to the directory where python is or to the executable in itself ? "Barry A. Warsaw" wrote: > > >>>>> "PT" == Patrick Timmons writes: > > PT> I tried with python 2.0 and python 2.1b1 and same result. > > PT> Here is how I made python 2.0: > > | ./configure > | make > | make test > | make altinstall > > I'm not even sure what "make altinstall" does. ;) These error sure > point to Mailman finding an earlier version of Python than 2.0. > > -Barry -- Patrick Timmons, service informatique From barry@digicool.com Fri Mar 30 18:36:02 2001 From: barry@digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw) Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2001 13:36:02 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Problem with mailman-2.1a1, syntax error in bin/update : print >>sys.stderr ... References: <3AC27311.693808D@courriel.polymtl.ca> <15042.41396.797377.993500@anthem.wooz.org> <3AC4D1D9.637F9E6C@courriel.polymtl.ca> Message-ID: <15044.53778.515424.608962@anthem.wooz.org> >>>>> "PT" == Patrick Timmons writes: PT> Hi. PT> I made a hard link to python2.0 and named it PT> /usr/local/bin/python and it worked. Thanks. | I was under the impression that I could use option | --with-python=/usr/local/bin/python2.0 with configure | where /usr/local/bin/python2.0 is the python interpreter. PT> Is this option used to point to the directory where python is PT> or to the executable in itself ? To the executable itself, however it won't help you with the command line scripts. They pick up the first Python executable on your $PATH (this should be fixed, but requires a lot of autoconf-related changes so it's not high on my list). -Barry From bedmonds@antarcti.ca Fri Mar 30 22:32:00 2001 From: bedmonds@antarcti.ca (Brian Edmonds) Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2001 14:32:00 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Headers and footers for MIME messages References: <15042.46824.976889.309145@anthem.wooz.org> Message-ID: barry@digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw) writes: > 4. A message comes in that is multipart/* but not multipart/mixed. > What to do here? Wrap the whole thing as a multipart/mixed: 1) text/plain: header 2) multipart/blah: original message 3) text/plain: footer Of course, I'm demiming all my lists anyway, so it would probably have gotten bounced before this point. Speaking of demime, and offtopic for this list, I just worked out a simple yet wonderful procmail recipe: :0 fw * ^Content-Type:.*(multipart/alternative|text/html) | /news/local/demime - | formail -a 'From ' Brian. From chris@greatbridge.com Thu Mar 1 18:57:15 2001 From: chris@greatbridge.com (Chris Ryan) Date: Thu, 01 Mar 2001 13:57:15 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] qrunner just keeps going and going Message-ID: <3A9E9B8B.EA144D86@greatbridge.com> I've got the latest setup on system and one of the problems I'm having is that qrunner (as per cron) runs every minute however each instance stays alive (spawning several other instances like IncomingRunner, OutgoingRunner, etc. so every minute I have eight (1 crond, 1 qrunner and 1 each of the six different runners) process start and sit on my machine doing nothing. This doesn't seem it is supposed to work this way. According to qrunner it says it runs and makes sure they different runners are doing their jobs. If this is the case then shouldn't qrunner detect if an instance of it is already running and abort or perhaps it should be started from init??? Any enlightenment someone could shed would be great. Thanks in advance. Chris Ryan chris@greatbridge.com From barry@digicool.com Thu Mar 1 20:36:08 2001 From: barry@digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw) Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 15:36:08 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] qrunner just keeps going and going References: <3A9E9B8B.EA144D86@greatbridge.com> Message-ID: <15006.45752.218654.994011@anthem.wooz.org> >>>>> "CR" == Chris Ryan writes: CR> I've got the latest setup on system and one of the problems CR> I'm having is that qrunner (as per cron) runs every minute CR> however each instance stays alive (spawning several other CR> instances like IncomingRunner, OutgoingRunner, etc. so every CR> minute I have eight (1 crond, 1 qrunner and 1 each of the six CR> different runners) process start and sit on my machine doing CR> nothing. CR> This doesn't seem it is supposed to work this way. According CR> to qrunner it says it runs and makes sure they different CR> runners are doing their jobs. If this is the case then CR> shouldn't qrunner detect if an instance of it is already CR> running and abort or perhaps it should be started from init??? Remember, you're running very very green code. I haven't even released it as an alpha yet! I do appreciate the feedback though. Eventually, I envison qrunner running from init, but in the spirit of backwards compatibility, I think the master qrunner should drop a lock file and subsequent invocations should exit if they cannot acquire the lock. CR> Any enlightenment someone could shed would be great. Watch for a checkin shortly. -Barry From chris@greatbridge.com Thu Mar 1 20:46:23 2001 From: chris@greatbridge.com (Chris Ryan) Date: Thu, 01 Mar 2001 15:46:23 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] qrunner just keeps going and going References: <3A9E9B8B.EA144D86@greatbridge.com> <15006.45752.218654.994011@anthem.wooz.org> Message-ID: <3A9EB51F.F0596323@greatbridge.com> Barry, I do understand that I will encounter problems running the code straight from CVS. With the development I'm going to be doing with mailman for my company (and hope to contribute back) I want to use the latest code to minimize differences between what you are developing and what I develop. Also in the process if i can help by submitting bug reports etc. all the better, right :) So if I become a pain in the neck it's only cause I like Mailman and want to help make it the best it can be. Chris Ryan chris@greatbridge.com "Barry A. Warsaw" wrote: > > >>>>> "CR" == Chris Ryan writes: > > CR> I've got the latest setup on system and one of the problems > CR> I'm having is that qrunner (as per cron) runs every minute > CR> however each instance stays alive (spawning several other > CR> instances like IncomingRunner, OutgoingRunner, etc. so every > CR> minute I have eight (1 crond, 1 qrunner and 1 each of the six > CR> different runners) process start and sit on my machine doing > CR> nothing. > > CR> This doesn't seem it is supposed to work this way. According > CR> to qrunner it says it runs and makes sure they different > CR> runners are doing their jobs. If this is the case then > CR> shouldn't qrunner detect if an instance of it is already > CR> running and abort or perhaps it should be started from init??? > > Remember, you're running very very green code. I haven't even > released it as an alpha yet! I do appreciate the feedback though. > > Eventually, I envison qrunner running from init, but in the spirit of > backwards compatibility, I think the master qrunner should drop a lock > file and subsequent invocations should exit if they cannot acquire the > lock. > > CR> Any enlightenment someone could shed would be great. > > Watch for a checkin shortly. > -Barry From barry@digicool.com Thu Mar 1 21:19:23 2001 From: barry@digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw) Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 16:19:23 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] qrunner just keeps going and going References: <3A9E9B8B.EA144D86@greatbridge.com> <15006.45752.218654.994011@anthem.wooz.org> <3A9EB51F.F0596323@greatbridge.com> Message-ID: <15006.48347.407170.394008@anthem.wooz.org> >>>>> "CR" == Chris Ryan writes: CR> I do understand that I will encounter problems running CR> the code straight from CVS. With the development I'm going to CR> be doing with mailman for my company (and hope to contribute CR> back) I want to use the latest code to minimize differences CR> between what you are developing and what I develop. Also in CR> the process if i can help by submitting bug reports etc. all CR> the better, right :) So if I become a pain in the neck it's CR> only cause I like Mailman and want to help make it the best it CR> can be. Oh, I'm sorry if my response came off as gruff -- I really appreciate folks on the bleeding edge describing their wounds to me . Yes, yes, please continue going the way you're going, and thanks for the feedback! -Barry From dwalter@syr.edu Fri Mar 2 05:25:51 2001 From: dwalter@syr.edu (David Walter) Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2001 00:25:51 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] FIX: web admin login failures and cookies Message-ID: <3A9F2EDF.EC0FE59E@syr.edu> I have been having difficulty with the admin interface using mailman v1.1 as shipped with debian potato. Initially the login works fine for the first time after creating a new list. When I leave and return to the list I would have the same problem as others: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2000-July/005550.html When I started looking at the cookie data I noticed something. most cookies in my cookie file have a path = '/' mailman has a path = /cgi-bin/mailman Now, I thought about the suggestion when configuring with apache to set up an alias, this I did so that uri's now look like: http://hostname/mailman/listinfo Notice that this conflicts with the cookie lookup. When I type in the full uri: http://hostname/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo Voila! I didn't even have to type in the password the first time. So, is this path sent as part of the cookie data for a reason? I mean is there a possibility of an administrator configuring and installing mailman at more than one cgi path on the system with the same list names so that there might be a conflict? If not would it be possible to remove the path so that it would be consistent? Is the following the only places that this would affect grep GetRequestURI Mailman/*/* Mailman/* Cgi/admin.py:125: 'path' : Utils.GetRequestURI(defaulturi), Cgi/admindb.py:104: 'path' : Utils.GetRequestURI(defaulturi)\ text = Utils.maketext( 'admlogin.txt', {'listname': list_name, 'path' : Utils.GetRequestURI(defaulturi), 'message' : message, }) Please cc any reply. Thanks so much. Respectfully: David From jcrey@uma.es Fri Mar 2 14:01:15 2001 From: jcrey@uma.es (Juan Carlos Rey Anaya) Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2001 15:01:15 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Fresh install of i18n Mailman Message-ID: <3A9FA7AB.BFC93C4E@uma.es> I have tried to make a fresh install from CVS. I get one error that says: Compiling /home/mailman/Mailman/versions.py ... Traceback (most recent call last): File "bin/update", line 31, in ? from Mailman import Utils File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Utils.py", line 37, in ? from mimelib.MsgReader import MsgReader ImportError: No module named mimelib.MsgReader Has anybody experimented this?. Or did I forget how to install Mailman? :-) Cheers -- = ___ / F \ [[[]]]] ( O O ) #----------------0000--(_)--0000---------------# | Juan Carlos Rey Anaya (jcrey@uma.es) | | Servicio Central de inform=E1tica | | Universidad de M=E1laga - Espa=F1a | #----------------------------------------------# From chris@greatbridge.com Fri Mar 2 14:37:23 2001 From: chris@greatbridge.com (Chris Ryan) Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2001 09:37:23 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Fresh install of i18n Mailman References: <3A9FA7AB.BFC93C4E@uma.es> Message-ID: <3A9FB023.9D3FEEA8@greatbridge.com> Juan, I had a similar problem a few days ago when I first started installing the new Mailman code from CVS. It eventually went away and i don't remember how or what I did to get everything correct. The solution I used the first time was to create a soft link called mimelib in ~mailman/Mailman pointing to /usr/local/lib/python2.0/site-packages/mimelib. Your paths may be a little different but it is worth a try as it worked for me. ex: $ ln -s /usr/local/lib/python2.0/site-packages/mimelib /home/mailman/Mailman/mimelib Hope this helps. Chris Ryan chris@greatbridge.com Juan Carlos Rey Anaya wrote: >=20 > I have tried to make a fresh install from CVS. > I get one error that says: >=20 > Compiling /home/mailman/Mailman/versions.py ... > Traceback (most recent call last): > File "bin/update", line 31, in ? > from Mailman import Utils > File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Utils.py", line 37, in ? > from mimelib.MsgReader import MsgReader > ImportError: No module named mimelib.MsgReader >=20 > Has anybody experimented this?. Or did I forget how to install Mailman? > :-) > Cheers > -- > ___ > / F \ > [[[]]]] > ( O O ) > #----------------0000--(_)--0000---------------# > | Juan Carlos Rey Anaya (jcrey@uma.es) | > | Servicio Central de inform=E1tica | > | Universidad de M=E1laga - Espa=F1a | > #----------------------------------------------# >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Mailman-Developers mailing list > Mailman-Developers@python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers From ralph@inputplus.demon.co.uk Fri Mar 2 14:27:13 2001 From: ralph@inputplus.demon.co.uk (Ralph Corderoy) Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2001 14:27:13 +0000 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Fresh install of i18n Mailman In-Reply-To: Message from Juan Carlos Rey Anaya of "Fri, 02 Mar 2001 15:01:15 +0100." <3A9FA7AB.BFC93C4E@uma.es> Message-ID: <200103021427.OAA08418@inputplus.demon.co.uk> Hi, > I have tried to make a fresh install from CVS. > I get one error that says: > > Compiling /home/mailman/Mailman/versions.py ... > Traceback (most recent call last): > File "bin/update", line 31, in ? > from Mailman import Utils > File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Utils.py", line 37, in ? > from mimelib.MsgReader import MsgReader > ImportError: No module named mimelib.MsgReader > > Has anybody experimented this?. Or did I forget how to install Mailman? Have you fetched Barry's new mimelib module? This is a FAQ these days; I think the docs in CVS might mention it's required. Ralph. From barry@digicool.com Fri Mar 2 16:18:13 2001 From: barry@digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw) Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2001 11:18:13 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-i18n] Re: [Mailman-Developers] Fresh install of i18n Mailman References: <3A9FA7AB.BFC93C4E@uma.es> <200103021427.OAA08418@inputplus.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: <15007.51141.397381.643802@anthem.wooz.org> >>>>> "RC" == Ralph Corderoy writes: RC> Have you fetched Barry's new mimelib module? http://barry.wooz.org/software/Code/mimelib-0.2.tar.gz It will eventually be bundled so a separate download won't be necessary. -Barry From jarrell@vt.edu Fri Mar 2 15:01:05 2001 From: jarrell@vt.edu (Ron Jarrell) Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2001 10:01:05 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Fresh install of i18n Mailman In-Reply-To: <3A9FA7AB.BFC93C4E@uma.es> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20010302100049.03d2a080@vtserf.cc.vt.edu> At 03:01 PM 3/2/01 +0100, Juan Carlos Rey Anaya wrote: >I have tried to make a fresh install from CVS. >I get one error that says: > >Compiling /home/mailman/Mailman/versions.py ... >Traceback (most recent call last): > File "bin/update", line 31, in ? > from Mailman import Utils > File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Utils.py", line 37, in ? > from mimelib.MsgReader import MsgReader >ImportError: No module named mimelib.MsgReader > >Has anybody experimented this?. Or did I forget how to install Mailman? >:-) Did you follow the instructions Barry posted earlier, and install mimelib? From room_maildev@bbs.pixel.citadel.org Fri Mar 2 16:52:59 2001 From: room_maildev@bbs.pixel.citadel.org (Patriot) Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2001 11:52:59 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] (no subject) Message-ID: <309517@bbs.pixel.citadel.org> I posted this to the mailman-users group, but either I'm the only one having this problem, or people just don't know: I'm having an issue with 2.0.1 and news gatewaying. It works fine, importing usenet news into e-mail and sending it out, however /tmp is filling up with: 389120 Feb 27 20:46 filew5MNZN There are literally hundreds of these files and almost all of then are that same size. Does anyone know why this is ocurring? When I check the files each one is the same (I use diff) and they all seem to contain every post from each newsgroup I'm gatewaying. Any help would be appreciated. I didn't see anything in the archives on this. Thanks! From jarrell@vt.edu Fri Mar 2 16:46:40 2001 From: jarrell@vt.edu (Ron Jarrell) Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2001 11:46:40 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Fresh install of i18n Mailman In-Reply-To: <3A9FB023.9D3FEEA8@greatbridge.com> References: <3A9FA7AB.BFC93C4E@uma.es> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20010302114548.039fbcb0@vtserf.cc.vt.edu> At 09:37 AM 3/2/01 -0500, you wrote: >Juan, > > I had a similar problem a few days ago when I first started installing >the new Mailman code from CVS. It eventually went away and i don't >remember how or what I did to get everything correct. The solution I >used the first time was to create a soft link called mimelib in >~mailman/Mailman pointing to >/usr/local/lib/python2.0/site-packages/mimelib. Your paths may be a >little different but it is worth a try as it worked for me. You don't need the link; your problem is you were running files that didn't have the patch in them yet I realized we needed, which moves the import of mimelib to *after* the import of defaults. From barry@digicool.com Fri Mar 2 17:00:02 2001 From: barry@digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw) Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2001 12:00:02 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] (no subject) References: <309517@bbs.pixel.citadel.org> Message-ID: <15007.53650.687274.553975@anthem.wooz.org> >>>>> "P" == Patriot writes: P> I'm having an issue with 2.0.1 and news gatewaying. P> It works fine, importing usenet news into e-mail and sending P> it out, however /tmp is filling up with: P> 389120 Feb 27 20:46 filew5MNZN P> There are literally hundreds of these files and almost all of P> then are that same size. Does anyone know why this is P> ocurring? When I check the files each one is the same (I use P> diff) and they all seem to contain every post from each P> newsgroup I'm gatewaying. Hmm, I see none of these on mail.python.org which gates comp.lang.python and comp.lang.python.announce (in both directions). Python's nntplib doesn't appear to create any temp files, so I don't think it's coming from there, and I'm /sure/ Mailman doesn't create any temp files. Is your usenet software on the same machine as Mailman? Could those files be created by your news s/w? Who is the user and group owner of those files? -Barry From room_maildev@bbs.pixel.citadel.org Fri Mar 2 17:07:10 2001 From: room_maildev@bbs.pixel.citadel.org (Patriot) Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2001 12:07:10 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] >Hmm, I see none of these on mail.python.org which gates Message-ID: <309528@bbs.pixel.citadel.org> >Hmm, I see none of these on mail.python.org which gates >comp.lang.python and comp.lang.python.announce (in both directions). >Python's nntplib doesn't appear to create any temp files, so I don't >think it's coming from there, and I'm /sure/ Mailman doesn't create >any temp files. > >Is your usenet software on the same machine as Mailman? Could those >files be created by your news s/w? Who is the user and group owner of >those files? > >-Barry > -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 389120 Feb 27 18:01 filezSQFHI But your question is valid, and I hadn't thoughtof it. The gatewaying stuff I have left in the mailman crontab and there's not anyway it should be able to create those files as 'root', unless the wrapper's doing it. In any event, I have no idea what's causing this. As for 'usenet software' I'm not using anything but the gatewaying software. The usenet server's not on the same machine, it's at a different ISP...and again, like I said, each of those files is specifically a file full of each usenet posting that I have gatewayed. I'm stumped. From barry@digicool.com Fri Mar 2 17:12:02 2001 From: barry@digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw) Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2001 12:12:02 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] >Hmm, I see none of these on mail.python.org which gates References: <309528@bbs.pixel.citadel.org> Message-ID: <15007.54370.497187.324851@anthem.wooz.org> >>>>> "P" == Patriot writes: P> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 389120 Feb 27 18:01 filezSQFHI P> But your question is valid, and I hadn't thoughtof it. The P> gatewaying stuff I have left in the mailman crontab and there's P> not anyway it should be able to create those files as 'root', P> unless the wrapper's doing it. It shouldn't unless Mailman's been misconfigured. Are these files that your gating from mail to news, from news to mail, or both? Because if it's in only one direction, that might help narrow the problem down. Gating from news to mail happens by cron/gate_news. Gating from mail to news happens by the ToUsenet.py handler run by the qrunner. Neither should be able to create root owned files (if they were owned by user or group `mailman', then I'd be more suspecting of a Mailman problem). P> In any event, I have no idea what's causing this. As for P> 'usenet software' I'm not using anything but the gatewaying P> software. The usenet server's not on the same machine, it's at P> a different ISP...and again, like I said, each of those files P> is specifically a file full of each usenet posting that I have P> gatewayed. P> I'm stumped. Me too! -Barry From room_maildev@bbs.pixel.citadel.org Fri Mar 2 17:17:10 2001 From: room_maildev@bbs.pixel.citadel.org (Patriot) Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2001 12:17:10 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] >Gating from news to mail happens by cron/gate_news. Gatin Message-ID: <309535@bbs.pixel.citadel.org> >Gating from news to mail happens by cron/gate_news. Gating from mail >to news happens by the ToUsenet.py handler run by the qrunner. >Neither should be able to create root owned files (if they were owned >by user or group `mailman', then I'd be more suspecting of a Mailman >problem). Yes, I tend to agree. No it's configured and set up properly, all the ownerships are by mailman/mailman. I hadn't thought about the fact that root owned those files, so I'll do a little more digging when I figure out what's been happening and post back with more details if I can't. Thanks for your help and prompt replies! From barry@digicool.com Fri Mar 2 17:27:58 2001 From: barry@digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw) Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2001 12:27:58 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] >Gating from news to mail happens by cron/gate_news. Gatin References: <309535@bbs.pixel.citadel.org> Message-ID: <15007.55326.971282.18919@anthem.wooz.org> >>>>> "P" == Patriot writes: P> Yes, I tend to agree. No it's configured and set up properly, P> all the ownerships are by mailman/mailman. I hadn't thought P> about the fact that root owned those files, so I'll do a little P> more digging when I figure out what's been happening and post P> back with more details if I can't. P> Thanks for your help and prompt replies! Cool, no problem! -Barry From barry@digicool.com Sat Mar 3 08:26:35 2001 From: barry@digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw) Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2001 03:26:35 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] ANNOUNCE Mailman 2.0.2 (important privacy patch) Message-ID: <15008.43707.726965.293836@anthem.wooz.org> I've just uploaded the Mailman 2.0.2 release to SourceForge. This is a bug fix release that also fixes a potential privacy hole, which could allow a list administrator to get access to user passwords. Even with those passwords, I believe there's little additional harm that a list admin could do, but still they probably shouldn't have access to those passwords. There are a few other important fixes in this release, so I recommend that all sites running Mailman 2.0 or 2.0.1 should upgrade. As usual I'm releasing this as both a complete tarball and as a patch against Mailman 2.0.1. If you grab the patchfile, you'll want to cd into your 2.0 source, and apply it like so: % patch -p1 < mailman-2.0.1-2.0.2.diff Currently only http://mailman.sourceforge.net is updated, but the list.org and gnu.org sites should be updated soon. The release information on SF is at http://sourceforge.net/project/shownotes.php?release_id=25955 My thanks to Thomas Wouters for his help! Enjoy, -Barry P.S. I'm not sure if I'll have time to release a 2.1 alpha of the I18N stuff before I leave for the Python9 conference. If we get the expected foot of snow between Sunday and Monday, it's a possibility. ;) [From the NEWS file] 2.0.2 (03-Mar-2001) Security fix: - A fix for a potential privacy exploit where a clever list administrator could gain access to user passwords. This doesn't allow them to do much more harm to the user then they normally could, but they still shouldn't have access to the passwords. Bug fixes: - In the admindb page, don't complain when approving a subscription of someone who's already on the list (SF bug #222409 - Thomas Wouters). Also, quote for HTML the Subject: text printed for held messages, otherwise messages with e.g. "Subject: " could royally screw page formatting. - In Netscape.py bounce processor, don't bomb out on ill-formed messages (no semi-colon separating parameters), otherwise mail delivery could grind to a halt. Bug reported by Kambiz Aghaiepour. - Docstring fix bin/newlist to remove mention of "immediate" argument (Thomas Wouters). - Fix for bin/update when PREFIX != VAR_PREFIX (SF bug #229794 -- Thomas Wouters). From glaughln@memphis.edu Sat Mar 3 14:56:00 2001 From: glaughln@memphis.edu (Gregory K. Laughlin) Date: Sat, 03 Mar 2001 08:56:00 -0600 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Re: [Mailman-Announce] ANNOUNCE Mailman 2.0.2 (important privacy patch) In-Reply-To: <15008.43707.726965.293836@anthem.wooz.org> Message-ID: <5.0.1.4.0.20010303085403.00a52490@postoffice.memphis.edu> At 03:26 AM 3/3/01 -0500, you wrote: >As usual I'm releasing this as both a complete tarball and as a patch >against Mailman 2.0.1. If you grab the patchfile, you'll want to cd >into your 2.0 source, and apply it like so: > > % patch -p1 < mailman-2.0.1-2.0.2.diff When you say source directory, what does that mean. I have mailman installed in the /home/mailman directory on my server. Is that the source directory, or would it be one of its subdirectories. Sorry for the ignorance, by I am not certain of the nomenclature here. I would rather ask that get it wrong. From room_maildev@bbs.pixel.citadel.org Sat Mar 3 15:13:32 2001 From: room_maildev@bbs.pixel.citadel.org (Patriot) Date: Sat, 03 Mar 2001 10:13:32 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] A day or so ago I posted about the /tmp filling up with new Message-ID: <310118@bbs.pixel.citadel.org> A day or so ago I posted about the /tmp filling up with newsgroup files. Since I mentioned it here that hasn't happened again, so I can't track what the problem was. I didn't make any changes, here, or anything, so I have NO idea what was going on. I haven't even rebooted anything. *shrug* Now I'm more confused than I was before, but it all seems to be working. At least for now. I guess all I had to do was complain about it. :) From barry@digicool.com Sat Mar 3 15:48:43 2001 From: barry@digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw) Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2001 10:48:43 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Re: [Mailman-Announce] ANNOUNCE Mailman 2.0.2 (important privacy patch) References: <15008.43707.726965.293836@anthem.wooz.org> <5.0.1.4.0.20010303085403.00a52490@postoffice.memphis.edu> Message-ID: <15009.4699.923823.173264@anthem.wooz.org> >>>>> "GKL" == Gregory K Laughlin writes: >> As usual I'm releasing this as both a complete tarball and as a >> patch against Mailman 2.0.1. If you grab the patchfile, you'll >> want to cd into your 2.0 source, and apply it like so: % patch >> -p1 < mailman-2.0.1-2.0.2.diff GKL> When you say source directory, what does that mean. I have GKL> mailman installed in the /home/mailman directory on my GKL> server. Is that the source directory, or would it be one of GKL> its subdirectories. The source directory is the directory you unpacked the original source tarball and did a "configure; make install" in. It is probably not /home/mailman. Cheers, -Barry From barry@digicool.com Sat Mar 3 15:54:15 2001 From: barry@digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw) Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2001 10:54:15 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] A day or so ago I posted about the /tmp filling up with new References: <310118@bbs.pixel.citadel.org> Message-ID: <15009.5031.856506.1547@anthem.wooz.org> >>>>> "P" == Patriot writes: P> Now I'm more confused than I was before, but it all seems to P> be working. At least for now. I guess all I had to do was P> complain about it. :) Love it when that happens! :) -Barry From barry@digicool.com Sat Mar 3 17:08:18 2001 From: barry@digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw) Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2001 12:08:18 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Re: ANNOUNCE Mailman 2.0.2 (important privacy patch) References: <15008.43707.726965.293836@anthem.wooz.org> Message-ID: <15009.9474.666986.317159@anthem.wooz.org> >>>>> "BAW" == Barry A Warsaw writes: BAW> If you grab the patchfile, you'll want to cd into your 2.0 BAW> source, and apply it like so: BAW> % patch -p1 < mailman-2.0.1-2.0.2.diff Two mistakes here (it was late last night :). I originally uploaded a file called `mailman-2.0.2-2.0.1.diff' to SourceForge. I've just uploaded the same file under the correct name, so either will work. Second, please use "patch -p0 < mailman-2.0.1-2.0.2.diff" from inside the source directory, otherwise you'll get lots of questions from patch. Sorry about that, -Barry From Mikael Djurfeldt Sat Mar 3 20:11:03 2001 From: Mikael Djurfeldt (Mikael Djurfeldt) Date: Sat, 03 Mar 2001 21:11:03 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Auto-rejecting spam Message-ID: Hi, I'm a list administrator using Mailman 2.0. My list is sometimes pretty heavily bombarded with spam. I can get 95% of it held by enabling holding of postings with indirect headers (requiring that the list name occurs in the To: or Cc: fields), however, since this spam filtering never hitherto has caught an innocent valid poster, I'd like Mailman to automatically reject this kind of spams without invoking me, the list administrator. So, I'm asking for a new privacy option to enable automatic rejection of postings with indirect headers and/or matching a list of regexps. (I'm not on this list, so I'd be grateful if you include me in the reply.) Best regards, /mdj From barry@digicool.com Mon Mar 5 03:41:48 2001 From: barry@digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw) Date: Sun, 4 Mar 2001 22:41:48 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] ANNOUNCE Mailman 2.1 alpha 1 Message-ID: <15011.2812.966977.334315@anthem.wooz.org> I've just uploaded a snapshot tarball of Mailman 2.1 alpha 1 to SourceForge. I'm only announcing it here because if you're not on mailman-developers, you probably shouldn't be trying to install this. This release is intended as a snapshot of several big changes to Mailman, specifically the rewritten qrunner subsystem, and internationalization support. Only motivated developers should consider using this release as I make no guarantees for stability or even installability. APIs may change. Stuff may not work. It might be a PITA to install. Still, it would be cool if people wanting i18n would pull this release down and play with it. I'm interested in any feedback or experiences you might have. I'll be at the Python conference all week so if you're coming, I'd love to talk about it, otherwise don't expect any responses until I get back. I strongly recommend you do not use this release for production systems (if you even can :). This release also contains the important bug fixes from Mailman 2.0.1 and 2.0.2. You can get the tarball from the Mailman SourceForge pages: http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=103 You will need Python 2.0 or better, and my mimelib 0.2 package or better. http://www.python.org/2.0 http://barry.wooz.org/software/Code/mimelib-0.2.tar.gz Enjoy, -Barry 2.1 alpha 1 (04-Mar-2001) - Python 2.0 or newer required. Also required is `mimelib' a new library for handling MIME documents. This will be bundled in future releases, but for now, you must download and install it (using Python's distutils) from http://barry.wooz.org/software/Code/mimelib-0.2.tar.gz You need mimelib 0.2 or better. - Redesigned qrunner subsystem. Now there are multiple message queues, and considerable flexibility in file formats for integration with external systems. The current crop of queues include: archive -- for posting messages to an archiver commands -- for incoming email commands and bounces in -- for list-destined incoming email news -- for messages outgoing to a nntp server out -- for messages outgoing to a smtp server shunt -- for messages that trigger unexpected exceptions in Mailman virgin -- for messages that are generated by Mailman cron/qrunner is now a long running script that forks off sub-runners for each of the above queues. qrunner still plays nice with cron, but it is expected to be started by init at some point in the future. Some support exists for parallel processing of messages in the queues. - Support for internationalization support merged in. Original work done by Juan Carlos Rey Anaya and Victoriano Giralt. I've tested about 90% of the web side, 50% of the email, and 50% of the command line / cron scripts. New scripts: bin/newlang, bin/rmlang - New delivery script `auto' for automatic integration with the Postfix MTA. - A bunch of new bounce detectors. Changes ported from Mailman 2.0.2 and 2.0.1: - A fix for a potential privacy exploit where a clever list administrator could gain access to user passwords. This doesn't allow them to do much more harm to the user then they normally could, but they still shouldn't have access to the passwords. - In the admindb page, don't complain when approving a subscription of someone who's already on the list (SF bug #222409 - Thomas Wouters). Also, quote for HTML the Subject: text printed for held messages, otherwise messages with e.g. "Subject: " could royally screw page formatting. - Docstring fix bin/newlist to remove mention of "immediate" argument (Thomas Wouters). - Fix for bin/update when PREFIX != VAR_PREFIX (SF bug #229794 -- Thomas Wouters). - Bug fix release, namely fixes a buglet in bin/withlist affecting the -l and -r flags; also a problem that can cause qrunner to stop processing mail after disk-full events (SourceForge bug 127199). From webmaster@isu.edu Mon Mar 5 15:06:12 2001 From: webmaster@isu.edu (Webmaster) Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2001 08:06:12 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Mailman Install to latest Message-ID: <3AA3AB64.EF052227@isu.edu> I have Mailman 2.0, would it be fine to install the patch Mailman 2.02 or do I first have to install Mailman 2.0.1 -- ############################### Webmaster webmaster@isu.edu Computing & Communications ################################ From thomas@xs4all.net Mon Mar 5 15:24:05 2001 From: thomas@xs4all.net (Thomas Wouters) Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 16:24:05 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Mailman Install to latest In-Reply-To: <3AA3AB64.EF052227@isu.edu>; from webmaster@isu.edu on Mon, Mar 05, 2001 at 08:06:12AM -0700 References: <3AA3AB64.EF052227@isu.edu> Message-ID: <20010305162405.Y9678@xs4all.nl> On Mon, Mar 05, 2001 at 08:06:12AM -0700, Webmaster wrote: > I have Mailman 2.0, would it be fine to install the patch Mailman 2.02 > or do I first have to install Mailman 2.0.1 The patch is from Mailman 2.0.1 to 2.0.2, so you need to apply the 2.0.1 patch first. -- Thomas Wouters Hi! I'm a .signature virus! copy me into your .signature file to help me spread! From teo.dehesselle@uts.edu.au Mon Mar 5 23:31:54 2001 From: teo.dehesselle@uts.edu.au (Teo de Hesselle) Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2001 10:31:54 +1100 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Incorrect Headers Message-ID: <3AA421EA.ED1917DE@uts.edu.au> It seems that for one of my lists' monthly password reminders, mailman is putting incorrect headers in, making it appear that the reminder is coming from a different list. The list whom this user is subscribed to is called 'researchnet', whereas the headers are claiming that it is coming from the 'bacc' list. This is interfering with mailman's bounce detection, and as a result the bacc admin is receiving all these messages, and is understandably not impressed. I am including the relevant sections below. Has anyone experienced this before? (or should this be addressed to the develepers' list?). Thank you for any help. >Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 05:42:46 +1100 (EST) >Message-Id: <200102281842.f1SIgkI07866@tsbunix1.itd.uts.edu.au> >Subject: listserv.uts.edu.au mailing list memberships reminder >From: mailman-owner@listserv.uts.edu.au >To: r.wiltshire@uts.edu.au >X-No-Archive: yes >X-Ack: no >Sender: bacc-admin@listserv.uts.edu.au >Errors-To: bacc-admin@listserv.uts.edu.au >X-BeenThere: bacc@listserv.uts.edu.au >X-Mailman-Version: 2.0 >Precedence: bulk > >This is a reminder, sent out once a month, about your >listserv.uts.edu.au mailing list memberships. It includes your [snip] > >If you have questions, problems, comments, etc, send them to >mailman-owner@listserv.uts.edu.au. Thanks! > >Passwords for r.wiltshire@uts.edu.au: > >List Password // URL >---- -------- >researchnet@listserv.uts.edu.au xxxxxx >http://listserv.uts.edu.au/mailman/options/researchnet/r.wiltshire%40uts= =2Eed = >u.au -- = T=E9o de Hesselle Email Administrator Information Technology Division University of Technology, Sydney From barry@digicool.com Tue Mar 6 07:01:43 2001 From: barry@digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw) Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 02:01:43 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Mailman Install to latest References: <3AA3AB64.EF052227@isu.edu> Message-ID: <15012.35671.154322.887581@anthem.wooz.org> >>>>> "W" == Webmaster writes: W> I have Mailman 2.0, would it be fine to install the patch W> Mailman 2.02 or do I first have to install Mailman 2.0.1 If you upgrade using the source tarball, it's fine to go straight to 2.0.2. If you are patching, you must apply the 2.0.1 patch before applying the 2.0.2 patch. -Barry From jcrey@uma.es Tue Mar 6 08:57:27 2001 From: jcrey@uma.es (Juan Carlos Rey Anaya) Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2001 09:57:27 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Fresh install of i18n Mailman References: <200103021427.OAA08418@inputplus.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: <3AA4A677.F8F6FB1E@uma.es> Ralph Corderoy wrote: > Have you fetched Barry's new mimelib module? Ron Jarrell wrote: > Did you follow the inns Barry posted earlier, and install mimelib? Arrg :-( Thank you very much guys, I will do my homework: download mimelib and RTFM :-) Thanks again -- = ___ / F \ [[[]]]] ( O O ) #----------------0000--(_)--0000---------------# | Juan Carlos Rey Anaya (jcrey@uma.es) | | Servicio Central de inform=E1tica | | Universidad de M=E1laga - Espa=F1a | #----------------------------------------------# From jcrey@uma.es Tue Mar 6 10:30:30 2001 From: jcrey@uma.es (Juan Carlos Rey Anaya) Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2001 11:30:30 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Fresh install of i18n Mailman References: <200103021427.OAA08418@inputplus.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: <3AA4BC46.3D3E9EDD@uma.es> I have finally installed mailman from cvs repository in my host. All i18n patches have been applied completelly. So any errors from now on should be taken into account. I have found some things are missing : - There is no template hierarchy. - There is no messages directory for catalogs - English templates have no i18n stuff. This errors are not fatal, because there are mechanisms for fallback behaviour. But, the template hierarchy and the messages directory are needed for adding supported languages. The templates must have i18n for the language selection to work. I'll work on synchronizing the message catalogs and I'll notify when they are ready for testing. Cheers -- = ___ / F \ [[[]]]] ( O O ) #----------------0000--(_)--0000---------------# | Juan Carlos Rey Anaya (jcrey@uma.es) | | Servicio Central de inform=E1tica | | Universidad de M=E1laga - Espa=F1a | #----------------------------------------------# From efernandezor@antena3tv.es Tue Mar 6 11:46:44 2001 From: efernandezor@antena3tv.es (efernandezor@antena3tv.es) Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 12:46:44 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Hi. Message-ID: From efernandezor@antena3tv.es Tue Mar 6 11:47:38 2001 From: efernandezor@antena3tv.es (efernandezor@antena3tv.es) Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 12:47:38 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] A problem with the subscriptor address Message-ID: Hi. I want to put a foot in every mails that puts: If you ever want to unsubscribe or change your options (eg, switch to or from digest mode, change your password, etc.), visit your subscription page at: http://mailmanhome/mailman/options/listname/subscriptor_address but how do I put the subscriptor address ? Thanks. From Nigel.Metheringham@InTechnology.co.uk Tue Mar 6 12:26:52 2001 From: Nigel.Metheringham@InTechnology.co.uk (Nigel Metheringham) Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2001 12:26:52 +0000 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] A problem with the subscriptor address In-Reply-To: Message from efernandezor@antena3tv.es of "Tue, 06 Mar 2001 12:47:38 +0100." Message-ID: efernandezor@antena3tv.es said: > If you ever want to unsubscribe or change your options (eg, switch to > or from digest mode, change your password, etc.), visit your > subscription page at: > http://mailmanhome/mailman/options/listname/subscriptor_address > but how do I put the subscriptor address ? You cannot do this with Mailman at present. If you think about it you are making each message unique per recipient, which is not what a mailing list manager does - it generally wants to send messages out in large blocks to multiple recipients. Nigel. -- [ Nigel Metheringham Nigel.Metheringham@InTechnology.co.uk ] [ Phone: +44 1423 850000 Fax +44 1423 858866 ] [ - Comments in this message are my own and not ITO opinion/policy - ] From Kurt Seifried" Message-ID: <00f001c0a66f$db4cd480$3200030a@seifried.org> Have you guys looked at GnuPG/X.509 encryption, i.e. someone sends a message to the list, and instead of just blonking it out to all members it checks a table for email address and GnuPG key/X.509 cert, and if found encrypts the email to that user with their key. It would be a nice optional feature. Kurt Seifried, seifried@securityportal.com Securityportal - your focal point for security on the 'net From thomas@xs4all.net Wed Mar 7 01:38:11 2001 From: thomas@xs4all.net (Thomas Wouters) Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 02:38:11 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Fresh install of i18n Mailman In-Reply-To: <3AA4BC46.3D3E9EDD@uma.es>; from jcrey@uma.es on Tue, Mar 06, 2001 at 11:30:30AM +0100 References: <200103021427.OAA08418@inputplus.demon.co.uk> <3AA4BC46.3D3E9EDD@uma.es> Message-ID: <20010307023811.A404@xs4all.nl> On Tue, Mar 06, 2001 at 11:30:30AM +0100, Juan Carlos Rey Anaya wrote: > I have finally installed mailman from cvs repository in my host. > All i18n patches have been applied completelly. So any errors from now > on should be taken into account. > I have found some things are missing : Note that this is an alpha in the truest form. I already heckled Barry about some obvious bugs (ones I'm not going to fix myself :) but since we're both at the Python conference, they won't be fixed for a few days at least. (Besides, I'm having a hard time figuring out what Barry wanted to do in the first place :) One suggestion: if you care about your mailbox, *do not run qrunner from cron*. It will generate an error-email every minute. Not Fun :-) -- Thomas Wouters Hi! I'm a .signature virus! copy me into your .signature file to help me spread! From wari@celestix.com Wed Mar 7 05:40:43 2001 From: wari@celestix.com (Wari Wahab) Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2001 13:40:43 +0800 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Making mailman RPM friendly Message-ID: <3AA5C9DA.BAE61BF2@celestix.com> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------3166665E8E810793ED1C2E38 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi there, tried to build an RPM of mailman and I found that it's not easy to do so with a plain vannila spec file.. Here I include a patch that allows easy creation of RPMs which you might want to include it in you next release, but then again, you might not coz I believe it's an ugly hack ;) and it's also not fhs compliant.. --------------3166665E8E810793ED1C2E38 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; name="mailman-rpm.diff" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline; filename="mailman-rpm.diff" diff -u -r mailman-2.0/Mailman/Archiver/Makefile.in mailman-2.0rc3/Mailman/Archiver/Makefile.in --- mailman-2.0/Mailman/Archiver/Makefile.in Tue Mar 21 14:25:10 2000 +++ mailman-2.0rc3/Mailman/Archiver/Makefile.in Fri Nov 24 16:40:12 2000 @@ -59,7 +59,7 @@ install: for f in $(MODULES); \ do \ - $(INSTALL) -m $(FILEMODE) $$f $(PACKAGEDIR); \ + $(INSTALL) -m $(FILEMODE) $$f $(DESTDIR)$(PACKAGEDIR); \ done finish: diff -u -r mailman-2.0/Mailman/Bouncers/Makefile.in mailman-2.0rc3/Mailman/Bouncers/Makefile.in --- mailman-2.0/Mailman/Bouncers/Makefile.in Tue Mar 21 14:25:35 2000 +++ mailman-2.0rc3/Mailman/Bouncers/Makefile.in Fri Nov 24 16:41:45 2000 @@ -57,7 +57,7 @@ install: for f in $(MODULES); \ do \ - $(INSTALL) -m $(FILEMODE) $$f $(PACKAGEDIR); \ + $(INSTALL) -m $(FILEMODE) $$f $(DESTDIR)$(PACKAGEDIR); \ done finish: diff -u -r mailman-2.0/Mailman/Cgi/Makefile.in mailman-2.0rc3/Mailman/Cgi/Makefile.in --- mailman-2.0/Mailman/Cgi/Makefile.in Tue Mar 21 14:25:43 2000 +++ mailman-2.0rc3/Mailman/Cgi/Makefile.in Fri Nov 24 16:42:19 2000 @@ -59,7 +59,7 @@ install: for f in $(CGI_MODULES); \ do \ - $(INSTALL) -m $(FILEMODE) $$f $(CGIDIR); \ + $(INSTALL) -m $(FILEMODE) $$f $(DESTDIR)$(CGIDIR); \ done finish: diff -u -r mailman-2.0/Mailman/Handlers/Makefile.in mailman-2.0rc3/Mailman/Handlers/Makefile.in --- mailman-2.0/Mailman/Handlers/Makefile.in Tue Mar 21 14:25:51 2000 +++ mailman-2.0rc3/Mailman/Handlers/Makefile.in Fri Nov 24 16:42:40 2000 @@ -57,7 +57,7 @@ install: for f in $(MODULES); \ do \ - $(INSTALL) -m $(FILEMODE) $$f $(PACKAGEDIR); \ + $(INSTALL) -m $(FILEMODE) $$f $(DESTDIR)$(PACKAGEDIR); \ done finish: diff -u -r mailman-2.0/Mailman/Logging/Makefile.in mailman-2.0rc3/Mailman/Logging/Makefile.in --- mailman-2.0/Mailman/Logging/Makefile.in Sat Jun 3 06:13:10 2000 +++ mailman-2.0rc3/Mailman/Logging/Makefile.in Fri Nov 24 16:42:53 2000 @@ -57,7 +57,7 @@ install: for f in $(MODULES); \ do \ - $(INSTALL) -m $(FILEMODE) $$f $(PACKAGEDIR); \ + $(INSTALL) -m $(FILEMODE) $$f $(DESTDIR)$(PACKAGEDIR); \ done finish: diff -u -r mailman-2.0/Mailman/Makefile.in mailman-2.0rc3/Mailman/Makefile.in --- mailman-2.0/Mailman/Makefile.in Tue Mar 21 14:24:59 2000 +++ mailman-2.0rc3/Mailman/Makefile.in Fri Nov 24 16:41:25 2000 @@ -64,12 +64,12 @@ install-here: for f in $(MODULES); \ do \ - $(INSTALL) -m $(FILEMODE) $$f $(PACKAGEDIR); \ + $(INSTALL) -m $(FILEMODE) $$f $(DESTDIR)$(PACKAGEDIR); \ done - $(INSTALL) -m $(FILEMODE) mm_cfg.py.dist $(PACKAGEDIR) - if [ ! -f $(PACKAGEDIR)/mm_cfg.py ]; \ + $(INSTALL) -m $(FILEMODE) mm_cfg.py.dist $(DESTDIR)$(PACKAGEDIR) + if [ ! -f $(DESTDIR)$(PACKAGEDIR)/mm_cfg.py ]; \ then \ - $(INSTALL) -m $(FILEMODE) mm_cfg.py.dist $(PACKAGEDIR)/mm_cfg.py; \ + $(INSTALL) -m $(FILEMODE) mm_cfg.py.dist $(DESTDIR)$(PACKAGEDIR)/mm_cfg.py; \ fi install: install-here diff -u -r mailman-2.0/Mailman/pythonlib/Makefile.in mailman-2.0rc3/Mailman/pythonlib/Makefile.in --- mailman-2.0/Mailman/pythonlib/Makefile.in Tue Mar 21 14:26:05 2000 +++ mailman-2.0rc3/Mailman/pythonlib/Makefile.in Fri Nov 24 16:43:05 2000 @@ -58,7 +58,7 @@ install: for f in $(MODULES); \ do \ - $(INSTALL) -m $(FILEMODE) $$f $(PACKAGEDIR); \ + $(INSTALL) -m $(FILEMODE) $$f $(DESTDIR)$(PACKAGEDIR); \ done finish: diff -u -r mailman-2.0/Makefile.in mailman-2.0rc3/Makefile.in --- mailman-2.0/Makefile.in Fri Sep 22 16:06:19 2000 +++ mailman-2.0rc3/Makefile.in Fri Nov 24 17:01:48 2000 @@ -82,7 +82,7 @@ @echo "Creating architecture independent directories..." @for d in $(VAR_DIRS); \ do \ - dir=$(var_prefix)/$$d; \ + dir=$(DESTDIR)$(var_prefix)/$$d; \ if test ! -d $$dir; then \ echo "Creating directory hierarchy $$dir"; \ ./mkinstalldirs $$dir; \ @@ -91,10 +91,10 @@ else true; \ fi; \ done - chmod o-r $(var_prefix)/archives/private + chmod o-r $(DESTDIR)$(var_prefix)/archives/private @for d in $(ARCH_INDEP_DIRS); \ do \ - dir=$(prefix)/$$d; \ + dir=$(DESTDIR)$(prefix)/$$d; \ if test ! -d $$dir; then \ echo "Creating directory hierarchy $$dir"; \ ./mkinstalldirs $$dir; \ @@ -106,7 +106,7 @@ @echo "Creating architecture dependent directories..." @for d in $(ARCH_DEP_DIRS); \ do \ - dir=$(exec_prefix)/$$d; \ + dir=$(DESTDIR)$(exec_prefix)/$$d; \ if test ! -d $$dir; then \ echo "Creating directory hierarchy $$dir"; \ ./mkinstalldirs $$dir; \ @@ -119,7 +119,7 @@ do \ (cd $$d; $(MAKE) install); \ done - $(PYTHON) -c 'from compileall import *; compile_dir("$(prefix)/Mailman")' + $(PYTHON) -c 'from compileall import *; compile_dir("$(DESTDIR)$(prefix)/Mailman")' update: @(cd $(prefix) ; bin/update) | tee ./update.log diff -u -r mailman-2.0/bin/Makefile.in mailman-2.0rc3/bin/Makefile.in --- mailman-2.0/bin/Makefile.in Fri May 5 06:51:31 2000 +++ mailman-2.0rc3/bin/Makefile.in Fri Nov 24 16:45:36 2000 @@ -62,7 +62,7 @@ install: for f in $(SCRIPTS); \ do \ - $(INSTALL) -m $(EXEMODE) $$f $(SCRIPTSDIR); \ + $(INSTALL) -m $(EXEMODE) $$f $(DESTDIR)$(SCRIPTSDIR); \ done finish: diff -u -r mailman-2.0/cron/Makefile.in mailman-2.0rc3/cron/Makefile.in --- mailman-2.0/cron/Makefile.in Wed Nov 1 10:32:05 2000 +++ mailman-2.0rc3/cron/Makefile.in Fri Nov 24 16:45:57 2000 @@ -59,7 +59,7 @@ install: for f in $(SCRIPTS); \ do \ - $(INSTALL) -m $(FILEMODE) $$f $(CRONDIR); \ + $(INSTALL) -m $(FILEMODE) $$f $(DESTDIR)$(CRONDIR); \ done finish: diff -u -r mailman-2.0/filters/Makefile.in mailman-2.0rc3/filters/Makefile.in --- mailman-2.0/filters/Makefile.in Fri Sep 22 16:00:01 2000 +++ mailman-2.0rc3/filters/Makefile.in Fri Nov 24 16:46:18 2000 @@ -59,7 +59,7 @@ install: for f in $(FILTERS); \ do \ - $(INSTALL) -m $(FILEMODE) $$f $(FILTERSDIR); \ + $(INSTALL) -m $(FILEMODE) $$f $(DESTDIR)$(FILTERSDIR); \ done finish: diff -u -r mailman-2.0/misc/Makefile.in mailman-2.0rc3/misc/Makefile.in --- mailman-2.0/misc/Makefile.in Fri Sep 22 15:58:52 2000 +++ mailman-2.0rc3/misc/Makefile.in Fri Nov 24 16:47:20 2000 @@ -61,14 +61,14 @@ all: install: - $(INSTALL) -m $(FILEMODE) Cookie.py $(PACKAGEDIR) - $(INSTALL) -m $(FILEMODE) $(ICONS) $(ICONDIR) + $(INSTALL) -m $(FILEMODE) Cookie.py $(DESTDIR)$(PACKAGEDIR) + $(INSTALL) -m $(FILEMODE) $(ICONS) $(DESTDIR)$(ICONDIR) for d in $(PATHSDIRS); \ do \ - dir=$(prefix)/$$d; \ + dir=$(DESTDIR)$(prefix)/$$d; \ $(INSTALL) -m $(FILEMODE) paths.py $$dir; \ done - $(INSTALL) -m $(DATAMODE) pending_subscriptions.db $(DATADIR) + $(INSTALL) -m $(DATAMODE) pending_subscriptions.db $(DESTDIR)$(DATADIR) finish: diff -u -r mailman-2.0/scripts/Makefile.in mailman-2.0rc3/scripts/Makefile.in --- mailman-2.0/scripts/Makefile.in Tue Mar 21 14:26:37 2000 +++ mailman-2.0rc3/scripts/Makefile.in Fri Nov 24 16:47:35 2000 @@ -58,7 +58,7 @@ install: for f in $(SCRIPTS); \ do \ - $(INSTALL) -m $(FILEMODE) $$f $(SCRIPTSDIR); \ + $(INSTALL) -m $(FILEMODE) $$f $(DESTDIR)$(SCRIPTSDIR); \ done finish: diff -u -r mailman-2.0/src/Makefile.in mailman-2.0rc3/src/Makefile.in --- mailman-2.0/src/Makefile.in Sun Aug 6 13:03:00 2000 +++ mailman-2.0rc3/src/Makefile.in Fri Nov 24 16:49:16 2000 @@ -111,18 +111,18 @@ install: all for f in $(CGI_PROGS); \ do \ - exe=$(CGIDIR)/$$f$(CGIEXT); \ + exe=$(DESTDIR)$(CGIDIR)/$$f$(CGIEXT); \ $(INSTALL_PROGRAM) $$f $$exe; \ chmod g+s $$exe; \ done for f in $(MAIL_PROGS); \ do \ - $(INSTALL_PROGRAM) $$f $(MAILDIR); \ - chmod g+s $(MAILDIR)/$$f; \ + $(INSTALL_PROGRAM) $$f $(DESTDIR)$(MAILDIR); \ + chmod g+s $(DESTDIR)$(MAILDIR)/$$f; \ done # @for f in $(ALIAS_PROGS); \ # do \ -# $(INSTALL_PROGRAM) $$f $(bindir) ; \ +# $(INSTALL_PROGRAM) $$f $(DESTDIR)$(bindir) ; \ # done finish: diff -u -r mailman-2.0/templates/Makefile.in mailman-2.0rc3/templates/Makefile.in --- mailman-2.0/templates/Makefile.in Tue Mar 21 14:26:46 2000 +++ mailman-2.0rc3/templates/Makefile.in Fri Nov 24 16:49:53 2000 @@ -59,8 +59,8 @@ install: for f in $(TEMPLATES); \ do \ - mv -f $(TEMPLATEDIR)/$$f $(TEMPLATEDIR)/$$f.prev || $(TRUE); \ - $(INSTALL) -m $(FILEMODE) $$f $(TEMPLATEDIR); \ + mv -f $(DESTDIR)$(TEMPLATEDIR)/$$f $(DESTDIR)$(TEMPLATEDIR)/$$f.prev || $(TRUE); \ + $(INSTALL) -m $(FILEMODE) $$f $(DESTDIR)$(TEMPLATEDIR); \ done finish: --------------3166665E8E810793ED1C2E38 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; name="mailman.spec" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline; filename="mailman.spec" Summary: The GNU Mailing List Management System Name: mailman Version: 2.0.2 Release: 1 Copyright: GPL Group: System Environment/Mailing List Managers Source: http://www.list.org/mailman-2.0.2.tgz URL: http://www.list.org Patch0: mailman-rpm.diff BuildRoot: /var/tmp/%{name}-root Packager: Wari Wahab Requires: python %description Mailman is software to help manage electronic mail discussion lists, much like Majordomo or Smartmail. Mailman gives each mailing list a unique web page and allows users to subscribe, unsubscribe, and change their account options over the web. Even the list manager can administer his or her list entirely via the web. Mailman has most of the features that people want in a mailing list management system, including built-in archiving, mail-to-news gateways, spam filters, bounce detection, digest delivery, and so on. %prep %setup -q %patch0 -p1 find . -type d -exec chmod 755 {} \; %build /usr/sbin/groupadd -g 88 mailman /usr/sbin/useradd -d /var/mailman -g mailman -u 88 mailman chgrp mailman /var/mailman chmod a+rx,g+ws /var/mailman export CFLAGS="$RPM_OPT_FLAGS"; CFLAGS="$RPM_OPT_FLAGS" ./configure --prefix=/var/mailman --with-mail-gid=mailman make CFLAGS="$RPM_OPT_FLAGS" %install rm -rf $RPM_BUILD_ROOT mkdir -p $RPM_BUILD_ROOT/var/mailman chgrp mailman $RPM_BUILD_ROOT/var/mailman chmod a+rx,g+ws $RPM_BUILD_ROOT/var/mailman make DESTDIR=$RPM_BUILD_ROOT install %pre /usr/sbin/groupadd -g 88 mailman /usr/sbin/useradd -d /var/mailman -g mailman -u 88 mailman %post su mailman -c '/usr/bin/crontab /var/mailman/cron/crontab.in' %clean rm -rf $RPM_BUILD_ROOT /usr/sbin/userdel mailman %files %dir /var/mailman /var/mailman/* %changelog * Wed Mar 07 2001 Wari Wahab - Modified for the latest mailman 2.0.2 * Wed Dec 20 2000 Wari Wahab - Initial RPM of mailman --------------3166665E8E810793ED1C2E38-- From midnight@the-oasis.net Wed Mar 7 14:30:26 2001 From: midnight@the-oasis.net (Phil Barnett) Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 09:30:26 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Any ideas what happened here? Message-ID: <3AA5FFB2.29000.B99A21D@localhost> I tracked down process 25798 and it was a mailman qrunner process... Mar 6 03:41:39 taz2 kernel: Unable to handle kernel paging request at virtual address 0000a014 Mar 6 03:41:39 taz2 kernel: current->tss.cr3 = 1b247000, %cr3 = 1b247000 Mar 6 03:41:39 taz2 kernel: *pde = 00000000 Mar 6 03:41:39 taz2 kernel: Oops: 0000 Mar 6 03:41:39 taz2 kernel: CPU: 0 Mar 6 03:41:39 taz2 kernel: EIP: 0010:[try_to_free_buffers+18/132] Mar 6 03:41:39 taz2 kernel: EFLAGS: 00010202 Mar 6 03:41:39 taz2 kernel: eax: 0000a000 ebx: c06ce720 ecx: 00000013 edx: 0003efe0 Mar 6 03:41:39 taz2 kernel: esi: 0000a000 edi: 0000a000 ebp: c06ce720 esp: d5c11ec0 Mar 6 03:41:39 taz2 kernel: ds: 0018 es: 0018 ss: 0018 Mar 6 03:41:39 taz2 kernel: Process python (pid: 25798, process nr: 167, stackpage=d5c11000) Mar 6 03:41:39 taz2 kernel: Stack: 00000013 00000000 c011d7ce c06ce720 00000002 00000006 00000013 c0122542 Mar 6 03:41:39 taz2 kernel: 00000006 00000013 00000001 00000013 00000013 c0122670 00000013 d5c10000 Mar 6 03:41:39 taz2 kernel: 00000000 c0122ec0 00000013 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 c011d49b Mar 6 03:41:39 taz2 kernel: Call Trace: [shrink_mmap+238/324] [do_try_to_free_pages+38/120] [try_to_free_pages+40/52] [ __get_free_pages+180/1020] [merge_segments+327/364] [do_generic_file_read+1136/1500] [generic_file_read+99/124] Mar 6 03:41:39 taz2 kernel: [file_read_actor+0/80] [sys_read+174/196] [system_call+52/56] Mar 6 03:41:39 taz2 kernel: Code: 8b 76 14 83 78 20 00 75 06 f6 40 18 46 74 0f 6a 00 e8 6c 01 Mar 6 03:42:09 taz2 proftpd[25807]: harbour-project.org (195.151.104.115[195.151.104.115]) - FTP session closed. Mar 7 09:53:29 taz2 syslogd 1.3-3: restart. -- Phil Barnett mailto:midnight@the-oasis.net WWW http://www.the-oasis.net/ FTP Site ftp://ftp.the-oasis.net From chris@greatbridge.com Wed Mar 7 15:17:54 2001 From: chris@greatbridge.com (Chris Ryan) Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2001 10:17:54 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Mailman + DB Message-ID: <3AA65122.3E9D3893@greatbridge.com> A week or so ago I sent a mail, entitled 'Mailman + PostgeSQL'. Since I have been doing my research on Mailman and getting an idea for how things work in a big picture kind of way. From the many suggestions of people who responded and of my own OOP background making the changes to have Mailman access a data source in an abstracted manner would seem to be the best solution. This email is directed to those who either develop Mailman or have interest in the changes I'm proposing. My motives for making these changes are to allow Mailman to access data from a database, PostgreSQL in my case. This is step one for me and my development needs. With the desire to contribute said changes back to the project in a meaningful way. With that in mind I'm suggesting the development of a standard data containment method that would encapsulate the data. Then data source containers can be developed and deployed for any storage method that some could use such as PostgreSQL, ZopeDB, flat file, etc. I will be working on this definition, hopefully with your input, and develop the first instance using the current storage method. Once that has been done and Mailman modified to use it then future data sources should be easy to add. Outlining the basic encapsulation I will use names that are easy to recognize but will not necessarily be the names used. The encapsulation will actually be a collection of classes so as to make the flow easier to maintain and understand. --------- class List: # does the initialization __init__(self,listname): # these two are for compatibility of the current flat file method # and can be left to perform no action for those sources that don't # need them Load(self): Save(self): # one of each for each attribute # most of these will return the values that are expected # as Mailman is today get(self): set(self,value): # Members/DigestMembers will be handled a little differently # as to create a more uniform and clean interface as they # will return a Members class getMembers(self): # Other data will most likely be encapsulated as Members # such as postings_responses, request_responses and # admin_responses, bounce_info and any other attributes # that are 'complex' class Members: # in my current thinking with the encapsulation it would # make sense to place both members and digest_members # within this one class providing methods to break out # each one as need. # each one of these would return the email keys (lc value of address) # the email key values hence forth will be referred to as userid # ??? why does Mailman care about case of the email addresses ??? getMembers(self): # return a list of _all_ list members getRegularMembers(self): # return a list of all regular list members getDigestMembers(self): # return a list of all digest members # other methods of use getMemberAddress(self,userid): # return the case preserved email of userid getMemberOption(self,userid,option): # returns 0,1 false,true setMemberOption(self,userid,option,state): # set/unset the option getMemberPassword(self,userid): # Returns the users password . . . # and so on # there would be respective classes for the other 'complex' attributes as stated above # in List ----------- The classes with the definition and implementations would could be defined under as such: Mailman/datasources/flatfile.py, Mailman/datasources/postgresql.py and then using a config option the respective file could be loaded with each of the classes into the namespace allowing easy installation of new datasources for use. This doesn't really handle the conversion from one source to another but makes it easy for users to select the kind of source they would like to use. I believe this to be a solid method for adding the functionality desired. I would like to know if people think that this is a good idea or not. Have I missed anything in my concept? Chris Ryan chris@greatbridge.com From barry@digicool.com Wed Mar 7 16:28:07 2001 From: barry@digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw) Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 11:28:07 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Mailman + DB References: <3AA65122.3E9D3893@greatbridge.com> Message-ID: <15014.24983.366598.455341@anthem.wooz.org> i don't have time to comment in detail, and just skimmed your message. i'll respond again after ipc9, but just to answer one question: mailman preserves the case of email address, but it does case insensitive comparison of addrs as keys. the policy is that addrs that differ only by case are considered the same user -- /but/ it needs the case preserved addr to use as the recipient of the message. that's because some mta -- believe it or not -- do care about the case of the recip addr. that may or may not make sense -- i'm still going to sleep on east coast time, but waking up on west coast time. not conducive to lucid thought no matter how many gallons of coffee is consumed. :) -barry From thomas@xs4all.net Wed Mar 7 18:33:39 2001 From: thomas@xs4all.net (Thomas Wouters) Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 19:33:39 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Any ideas what happened here? In-Reply-To: <3AA5FFB2.29000.B99A21D@localhost>; from midnight@the-oasis.net on Wed, Mar 07, 2001 at 09:30:26AM -0500 References: <3AA5FFB2.29000.B99A21D@localhost> Message-ID: <20010307193339.B404@xs4all.nl> On Wed, Mar 07, 2001 at 09:30:26AM -0500, Phil Barnett wrote: > I tracked down process 25798 and it was a mailman qrunner > process... qrunner is a simple python process. It does nothing peculiar at all. Python also does nothing peculiar, it's just a userspace program. It looks like you have a kernel bug or hardware problem on your hands. > Mar 6 03:41:39 taz2 kernel: Unable to handle kernel paging > request at virtual address 0000a014 > Mar 6 03:41:39 taz2 kernel: current->tss.cr3 = 1b247000, %cr3 = > 1b247000 > Mar 6 03:41:39 taz2 kernel: *pde = 00000000 > Mar 6 03:41:39 taz2 kernel: Oops: 0000 > Mar 6 03:41:39 taz2 kernel: CPU: 0 > Mar 6 03:41:39 taz2 kernel: EIP: > 0010:[try_to_free_buffers+18/132] > Mar 6 03:41:39 taz2 kernel: EFLAGS: 00010202 > Mar 6 03:41:39 taz2 kernel: eax: 0000a000 ebx: c06ce720 ecx: > 00000013 edx: 0003efe0 > Mar 6 03:41:39 taz2 kernel: esi: 0000a000 edi: 0000a000 ebp: > c06ce720 esp: d5c11ec0 > Mar 6 03:41:39 taz2 kernel: ds: 0018 es: 0018 ss: 0018 > Mar 6 03:41:39 taz2 kernel: Process python (pid: 25798, process > nr: 167, stackpage=d5c11000) > Mar 6 03:41:39 taz2 kernel: Stack: 00000013 00000000 c011d7ce > c06ce720 00000002 00000006 00000013 c0122542 > Mar 6 03:41:39 taz2 kernel: 00000006 00000013 00000001 > 00000013 00000013 c0122670 00000013 d5c10000 > Mar 6 03:41:39 taz2 kernel: 00000000 c0122ec0 00000013 > 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 c011d49b > Mar 6 03:41:39 taz2 kernel: Call Trace: [shrink_mmap+238/324] > [do_try_to_free_pages+38/120] [try_to_free_pages+40/52] [ > __get_free_pages+180/1020] [merge_segments+327/364] > [do_generic_file_read+1136/1500] [generic_file_read+99/124] > Mar 6 03:41:39 taz2 kernel: [file_read_actor+0/80] > [sys_read+174/196] [system_call+52/56] > Mar 6 03:41:39 taz2 kernel: Code: 8b 76 14 83 78 20 00 75 06 f6 > 40 18 46 74 0f 6a 00 e8 6c 01 > Mar 6 03:42:09 taz2 proftpd[25807]: harbour-project.org > (195.151.104.115[195.151.104.115]) - FTP session closed. > Mar 7 09:53:29 taz2 syslogd 1.3-3: restart. > > > > -- > Phil Barnett mailto:midnight@the-oasis.net > WWW http://www.the-oasis.net/ > FTP Site ftp://ftp.the-oasis.net > > _______________________________________________ > Mailman-Developers mailing list > Mailman-Developers@python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers -- Thomas Wouters Hi! I'm a .signature virus! copy me into your .signature file to help me spread! From thomas@xs4all.net Wed Mar 7 18:38:15 2001 From: thomas@xs4all.net (Thomas Wouters) Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 19:38:15 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Feature request In-Reply-To: <00f001c0a66f$db4cd480$3200030a@seifried.org>; from seifried@securityportal.com on Tue, Mar 06, 2001 at 12:01:30PM -0700 References: <00f001c0a66f$db4cd480$3200030a@seifried.org> Message-ID: <20010307193815.C404@xs4all.nl> On Tue, Mar 06, 2001 at 12:01:30PM -0700, Kurt Seifried wrote: > Have you guys looked at GnuPG/X.509 encryption, i.e. someone sends a > message to the list, and instead of just blonking it out to all members it > checks a table for email address and GnuPG key/X.509 cert, and if found > encrypts the email to that user with their key. It would be a nice > optional feature. There has been some traffic on the idea before, yes. The main problem is that someone has to implement it :) The mailman development team basically consists of Barry, who also has two other fulltime jobs. I'm pretty certain Barry would accept a patch that implemented it, and if not, I'd rewrite it to suit his wishes and slip it in when he's not looking :) Of course, I also have two other fulltime jobs ;P -- Thomas Wouters Hi! I'm a .signature virus! copy me into your .signature file to help me spread! From mentor@alb-net.com Wed Mar 7 22:11:41 2001 From: mentor@alb-net.com (Mentor Cana) Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 17:11:41 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Mailman-Developers] MM 2.0.2: AttributeError: MMAlreadyMember Message-ID: Here is the error I get when attempting to approve subscription Request on "confirm+approval" list. thanks, Mentor --- Mar 07 17:07:00 2001 admin(15231): @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ admin(15231): [----- Mailman Version: 2.0.2 -----] admin(15231): [----- Traceback ------] admin(15231): Traceback (most recent call last): admin(15231): File "/opt/home/mailman/scripts/driver", line 96, in run_main admin(15231): main() admin(15231): File "/opt/home/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/admindb.py", line 88, in main admin(15231): HandleRequests(mlist, doc, cgidata) admin(15231): File "/opt/home/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/admindb.py", line 271, in HandleRequests admin(15231): preserve, forward, forwardaddr) admin(15231): File "/opt/home/mailman/Mailman/ListAdmin.py", line 133, in HandleRequest admin(15231): status = self.__handlesubscription(data, value, comment) admin(15231): File "/opt/home/mailman/Mailman/ListAdmin.py", line 331, in __handlesubscription admin(15231): except Errors.MMAlreadyMember: admin(15231): AttributeError: MMAlreadyMember .... From thomas@xs4all.net Wed Mar 7 22:52:36 2001 From: thomas@xs4all.net (Thomas Wouters) Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 23:52:36 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] MM 2.0.2: AttributeError: MMAlreadyMember In-Reply-To: ; from mentor@alb-net.com on Wed, Mar 07, 2001 at 05:11:41PM -0500 References: Message-ID: <20010307235236.F404@xs4all.nl> On Wed, Mar 07, 2001 at 05:11:41PM -0500, Mentor Cana wrote: > Here is the error I get when attempting to approve subscription Request on > "confirm+approval" list. > admin(15231): File "/opt/home/mailman/Mailman/ListAdmin.py", line 331, in __handlesubscription > admin(15231): except Errors.MMAlreadyMember: > admin(15231): AttributeError: MMAlreadyMember > .... Oh, fscking cramp. I hope Barry doesn't see this message until after he's on the plane back home, or at least after he bought me that beer he promised :-) I guess Barry will have to bring out a 2.0.3, sigh. My typo. You can fix it manually by changing line 331 of ListAdmin.py to 'except Errors.MMAlreadyAMember:'. Note the extra 'A' between 'Already' and 'Member'. It's fixed in the current CVS tree as well as the 2.0 branch. -- Thomas Wouters Hi! I'm a .signature virus! copy me into your .signature file to help me spread! From steffen@wflin3.asta.uni-wuppertal.de Thu Mar 8 00:19:05 2001 From: steffen@wflin3.asta.uni-wuppertal.de (Steffen Bardolatzi) Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 01:19:05 +0100 (CET) Subject: [Mailman-Developers] best wy to upgrade from Mailman 2.0b6 to 2.02? Message-ID: There are some archiv related issues - unfortunatley not archived for some reasons - with upgrading from V2.0b6 to V2.0x final [last attempt with 2.01]. First of all what=B4s running: - Linux 2.2.x - Python 1.52 (1.6 or 2.0 compiled additionally but did not work with currently passwords i.e. I was not able to login as mailman-owner nor listowner - using a make install) - there are running some inportant liste --> I can=B4t afford *any* loss of e-mails and archived messages [for this reason I always make a backup] - qmail as MTA I. Upgrading to 2.0 with mailman 2.0.x --> see above, mail delivery seems t= o work: - passwords are not recognized, it is no way to reset them to default values --> how does it is possible to upgrade to Python 2.0 *without* leaving *all* passwords? =3D=3D> I=B4ll stick with Mailman 2.0x for I have to keep the current list = + datebases, if there was a password converter there was not problem =3D=3D> sticking with Python 1.52 for now --> II II. Upgrade to mailman 2.0x: - first make install, then - passwords still work - mail delivery is fine - archives *only* work with *some* already configured lists, e.g. "testliste" does *not* archive - newly created lists does not archive *at all* - I couldn=B4t figure out wrongly set permissions So what might be the best way to upgrade to 2.02 final with using the old datebase and passwords without any loss of data? Thanks in advance, =09=09Steffen From midnight@the-oasis.net Thu Mar 8 05:30:59 2001 From: midnight@the-oasis.net (Phil Barnett) Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 00:30:59 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Any ideas what happened here? In-Reply-To: <20010307193339.B404@xs4all.nl> References: <3AA5FFB2.29000.B99A21D@localhost>; from midnight@the-oasis.net on Wed, Mar 07, 2001 at 09:30:26AM -0500 Message-ID: <3AA6D2C3.5355.ED21CF9@localhost> On 7 Mar 2001, at 19:33, Thomas Wouters wrote: > On Wed, Mar 07, 2001 at 09:30:26AM -0500, Phil Barnett wrote: > > > I tracked down process 25798 and it was a mailman qrunner > > process... > > qrunner is a simple python process. It does nothing peculiar at all. Python > also does nothing peculiar, it's just a userspace program. It looks like you > have a kernel bug or hardware problem on your hands. The machine had an uptime of 146 days at that point, so we'll see how it goes. It's all relatively new hardware. A reboot and off it went... -- Phil Barnett mailto:midnight@the-oasis.net WWW http://www.the-oasis.net/ FTP Site ftp://ftp.the-oasis.net From steffen@wflin3.asta.uni-wuppertal.de Thu Mar 8 09:41:30 2001 From: steffen@wflin3.asta.uni-wuppertal.de (Steffen Bardolatzi) Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 10:41:30 +0100 (CET) Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Idea as for the non-arching issue Message-ID: Unfortunately, I can=B4t prove it but this might be the reason for non-archiving issues: For the last times I posted with "steffen@asta.uni-wuppertal.de" which is basically the same as "steffen@wflin3.asta.uni-wuppertal.de" with one difference: - I am subscribed with "steffen@wflin3.asta.uni-wuppertal.de" - asta.uni-wuppertal.de is allowed, too - there is no DNS-entry for asta.uni-wuppertal.de (we can't change it) Apart from these details the recent message with "...wflin3..." in it *has* been archived. If the archiving code has not been changed from 2.01 up to 2.02: does it is possible that *non*-Subscribers are not archived (different in Beta 6)? If this was true there was an important issue to us because we *have to* archive non-members messages archiving an external Mailinglist for internal use (filtering Bcc messages). Any ideas about that?! Thanks in advance, =09=09Steffen From jason-dated-a0d01c8ed1915165@mastaler.com Thu Mar 8 20:37:06 2001 From: jason-dated-a0d01c8ed1915165@mastaler.com (Jason R. Mastaler) Date: 8 Mar 2001 20:37:06 -0000 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] mailman and qmail-inject Message-ID: <20010308203706.31364.qmail@mid.mastaler.com> Greetings, I've been looking to move my lists over to Mailman, but I run qmail and understand there are some "issues" with this combination. If I'm not mistaken, mailman injects outgoing messages via SMTP on localhost. This method is problematic on qmail systems, because it circumvents `qmail-inject' which is responsible for adding appropriate information to the message header before it gets sent to the outgoing queue. The end result is that Mailman messages sent from a qmail server lack certain important headers such as "Date:" and "Message-ID:". Has anyone addressed or made plans to address this issue? -- ____________________________________________________________ My 'jason-dated-*' e-mail address is valid, but expirable. It will expire in 7 day(s) from the date of this message. For more information see . ____________________________________________________________ From jra@baylink.com Thu Mar 8 21:43:29 2001 From: jra@baylink.com (Jay R. Ashworth) Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 16:43:29 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Using Mailman as a broadcast list manager In-Reply-To: ; from mailman-developers-request@python.org on Thu, Mar 08, 2001 at 04:41:15PM -0500 References: Message-ID: <20010308164329.25508@scfn.thpl.lib.fl.us> That's what I'm doing for a client, and before you ask, yes, it's opt-in, and no, you can't have the addresses. :-) My problem is that I haven't had nearly enough time (or warning) on the fact that they only want about 5,000 mails to go out per day to their 55,000+ name list... and I'm not sure which module to put the throttle into. It *looks* like it ought to go in SMTPdirect, but I'm worried about locking issues. And, of course, I'd want it to be a list parameter, though that's not essential for this particular site.Is there anyone on the list who's already done this, or failing that, has a snap answer for this one? I'm headed off to search the archives... but I do have multiple windows on my laptop. :-) Damned fine looking system, BTW: only one 'bug' I've seen so far: The doco says the site password will work anywhere... but it doesn't seem to work as the "old password" for changing a list password, and I can't find anywhere *else* to do that either. Am I missing something, or is that really a bug? I'm gonna check Jitterbug for that, too, during my search. Cheers, -- jra -- Jay R. Ashworth jra@baylink.com Member of the Technical Staff Baylink The Suncoast Freenet The Things I Think Tampa Bay, Florida http://baylink.pitas.com +1 727 804 5015 From ricardo@rixhq.nu Mon Mar 12 00:42:57 2001 From: ricardo@rixhq.nu (Ricardo Kustner) Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 01:42:57 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Mailman + DB In-Reply-To: <3AA65122.3E9D3893@greatbridge.com>; from chris@greatbridge.com on Wed, Mar 07, 2001 at 10:17:54AM -0500 References: <3AA65122.3E9D3893@greatbridge.com> Message-ID: <20010312014257.E6859@rix.rixhq.nu> On Wed, Mar 07, 2001 at 10:17:54AM -0500, Chris Ryan wrote: > With that in mind I'm suggesting the development of a standard data > containment method that would encapsulate the data. Then data source > containers can be developed and deployed for any storage method that > some could use such as PostgreSQL, ZopeDB, flat file, etc. I will be > working on this definition, hopefully with your input, and develop the > first instance using the current storage method. Once that has been done > and Mailman modified to use it then future data sources should be easy > to add. What about putting your ideas in the MailmanDesignNotes ZWikiPage? Hopefully this will make it easier for the other developers to comment on it and suggest changes... The link for the "CentralizedUserDatabase" on Mailman's ZWikiPage is at: http://www.zope.org/Members/bwarsaw/MailmanDesignNotes/FrontPage/editform?page=CentralizedUserDatabase (you only need to have an account on zope.org and then you can edit the pages as you like) -- Regards, Ricardo From Dynamic Computer Systems"

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          From detlef.neubauer@charite.de Mon Mar 12 14:35:32 2001 From: detlef.neubauer@charite.de (Detlef Neubauer) Date: 12 Mar 2001 15:35:32 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: [Mailman-Developers] MM 2.0.2: AttributeError: MMAlreadyMember In-Reply-To: Thomas Wouters's message of "Wed, 7 Mar 2001 23:52:36 +0100" References: <20010307235236.F404@xs4all.nl> Message-ID: Thomas Wouters writes: > On Wed, Mar 07, 2001 at 05:11:41PM -0500, Mentor Cana wrote: >=20 > > Here is the error I get when attempting to approve subscription Request= on > > "confirm+approval" list. >=20 > > admin(15231): File "/opt/home/mailman/Mailman/ListAdmin.py", line 331= , in __handlesubscription > > admin(15231): except Errors.MMAlreadyMember: > > admin(15231): AttributeError: MMAlreadyMember > > .... >=20 > My typo. You can fix it manually by changing line 331 of > ListAdmin.py to 'except Errors.MMAlreadyAMember:'. Note the extra > 'A' between 'Already' and 'Member'. Hello, i have the same problem and i fix it. But now i get ,----[ log/error ] | Mar 12 15:19:33 2001 admin(4109): @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@= @@@@@ | admin(4109): [----- Mailman Version: 2.0.2 -----] | admin(4109): [----- Traceback ------] | admin(4109): Traceback (innermost last): | admin(4109): File "/home/mailman/scripts/driver", line 96, in run_main | admin(4109): main() | admin(4109): File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/admindb.py", line 88, in m= ain | admin(4109): HandleRequests(mlist, doc, cgidata) | admin(4109): File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/admindb.py", line 271, in = HandleRequests | admin(4109): preserve, forward, forwardaddr) | admin(4109): File "../Mailman/ListAdmin.py", line 133, in HandleRequest | admin(4109): status =3D self.__handlesubscription(data, value, commen= t) | admin(4109): File "../Mailman/ListAdmin.py", line 330, in __handlesubsc= ription | admin(4109): self.ApprovedAddMember(addr, password, digest, lang) | admin(4109): NameError: lang | admin(4109): [----- Python Information -----] | admin(4109): sys.version =3D 1.5.2 (#1, Jun 5 2000, 12:50:00) [GCC e= gcs-2.91.60 19981201 (egcs-1.1.1=20 | admin(4109): sys.executable =3D /usr/local/bin/python | admin(4109): sys.prefix =3D /usr/local/bin/../stow/python-1.5.2 | admin(4109): sys.exec_prefix=3D /usr/local/bin/../stow/python-1.5.2 | admin(4109): sys.path =3D /usr/local/bin/../stow/python-1.5.2 | admin(4109): sys.platform =3D linux2 `---- when i will to approve a new member. The refuse funktion is working. Sorry for my english. Gru=DF Detlef Neubauer --=20 PGP-Key auf http://germany.keyserver.net/ From thomas@xs4all.net Mon Mar 12 14:42:31 2001 From: thomas@xs4all.net (Thomas Wouters) Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 15:42:31 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: [Mailman-Developers] MM 2.0.2: AttributeError: MMAlreadyMember In-Reply-To: ; from detlef.neubauer@charite.de on Mon, Mar 12, 2001 at 03:35:32PM +0100 References: <20010307235236.F404@xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <20010312154230.T100@xs4all.nl> On Mon, Mar 12, 2001 at 03:35:32PM +0100, Detlef Neubauer wrote: > Thomas Wouters writes: > > > On Wed, Mar 07, 2001 at 05:11:41PM -0500, Mentor Cana wrote: > > > > > Here is the error I get when attempting to approve subscription Request on > > > "confirm+approval" list. > > > > > admin(15231): File "/opt/home/mailman/Mailman/ListAdmin.py", line 331, in __handlesubscription > > > admin(15231): except Errors.MMAlreadyMember: > > > admin(15231): AttributeError: MMAlreadyMember > > > .... > > > > My typo. You can fix it manually by changing line 331 of > > ListAdmin.py to 'except Errors.MMAlreadyAMember:'. Note the extra > > 'A' between 'Already' and 'Member'. > Hello, > i have the same problem and i fix it. But now i get > ,----[ log/error ] > | Mar 12 15:19:33 2001 admin(4109): @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ > | admin(4109): [----- Mailman Version: 2.0.2 -----] > | admin(4109): [----- Traceback ------] > | admin(4109): Traceback (innermost last): > | admin(4109): File "/home/mailman/scripts/driver", line 96, in run_main > | admin(4109): main() > | admin(4109): File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/admindb.py", line 88, in main > | admin(4109): HandleRequests(mlist, doc, cgidata) > | admin(4109): File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/admindb.py", line 271, in HandleRequests > | admin(4109): preserve, forward, forwardaddr) > | admin(4109): File "../Mailman/ListAdmin.py", line 133, in HandleRequest > | admin(4109): status = self.__handlesubscription(data, value, comment) > | admin(4109): File "../Mailman/ListAdmin.py", line 330, in __handlesubscription > | admin(4109): self.ApprovedAddMember(addr, password, digest, lang) > | admin(4109): NameError: lang > when i will to approve a new member. The refuse funktion is working. Indeed. Barry and I found the same bug when we were preparing Mailman 2.0.3 last Thursday. This is the last time I'm using CVS to backport a patch, by the way. The solution is to remove the last argument in the call to 'self.ApprovedAddMember', turning self.ApprovedAddMember(addr, password, digest, lang) into self.ApprovedAddMember(addr, password, digest) Barry was supposed to release 2.0.3 ASAPly, but I guess he's been as devastated by jetlag as me ;P -- Thomas Wouters Hi! I'm a .signature virus! copy me into your .signature file to help me spread! From detlef.neubauer@charite.de Mon Mar 12 15:16:12 2001 From: detlef.neubauer@charite.de (Detlef Neubauer) Date: 12 Mar 2001 16:16:12 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: [Mailman-Developers] MM 2.0.2: AttributeError: MMAlreadyMember In-Reply-To: Thomas Wouters's message of "Mon, 12 Mar 2001 15:42:31 +0100" References: <20010307235236.F404@xs4all.nl> <20010312154230.T100@xs4all.nl> Message-ID: Thomas Wouters writes: > > | admin(4109): NameError: lang >=20 > > when i will to approve a new member. The refuse funktion is working. >=20 > The solution is to remove the last argument in the call to > 'self.ApprovedAddMember', turning >=20 > self.ApprovedAddMember(addr, password, digest, lang) >=20 > into >=20 > self.ApprovedAddMember(addr, password, digest) >=20 Hello Thomas, thanks for your fast support. I try it and it works. :-) Gru=DF Detlef Neubauer --=20 PGP-Key auf http://germany.keyserver.net/ From barry@digicool.com Mon Mar 12 22:29:06 2001 From: barry@digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw) Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 17:29:06 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] ANNOUNCE Mailman 2.0.3 Message-ID: <15021.19890.887096.306934@anthem.wooz.org> --O17lvtC8kj Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Description: message body text Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'm sorry folks. As some of you are aware, a small but nasty typo snuck its way into the Mailman 2.0.2 release, necessitating a bug fix patch. Thus I've just uploaded Mailman 2.0.3 to SourceForge. I highly recommend that you upgrade to this version. As usual I'm releasing this as both a complete tarball and as a patch against Mailman 2.0.2. You /must/ update your source to 2.0.2 before applying the 2.0.3 patch. Since the patch is small, I'm including it in this message. To apply, cd into your 2.0.2 source tree and apply it like so: % patch -p0 < mailman-2.0.2-2.0.3.diff Currently both http://mailman.sourceforge.net and http://www.list.org are updated, and I expect the gnu.org site to be updated soon as well. The release information on SF is at http://sourceforge.net/project/shownotes.php?release_id=27001 -Barry P.S. It was nice to meet so many Mailman fans at IPC9! It was also quite cool to finally meet Thomas Wouters. Don't worry Thomas, I won't hold this one against ya. :) [From the NEWS file] 2.0.3 (12-Mar-2001) Bug fix release. There was a small typo in 2.0.2 in ListAdmin.py for approving an already subscribed member (thanks Thomas!). Also, an update to the OpenWall security workaround (contrib/securelinux_fix.py) was included. Thanks to Marc Merlin. --O17lvtC8kj Content-Type: text/plain Content-Description: Patch Mailman 2.0.2 -> 2.0.3 Content-Disposition: inline; filename="mailman-2.0.2-2.0.3.diff" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Index: NEWS =================================================================== RCS file: /cvsroot/mailman/mailman/NEWS,v retrieving revision 1.25.2.2 retrieving revision 1.25.2.4 diff -u -r1.25.2.2 -r1.25.2.4 --- NEWS 2001/03/03 06:51:26 1.25.2.2 +++ NEWS 2001/03/12 19:32:10 1.25.2.4 @@ -1,8 +1,15 @@ Mailman - The GNU Mailing List Management System -Copyright (C) 1998,1999,2000 by the Free Software Foundation, Inc. +Copyright (C) 1998,1999,2000,2001 by the Free Software Foundation, Inc. 59 Temple Place - Suite 330, Boston, MA 02111-1307, USA Here is a history of user visible changes to Mailman. + +2.0.3 (12-Mar-2001) + + Bug fix release. There was a small typo in 2.0.2 in ListAdmin.py + for approving an already subscribed member (thanks Thomas!). + Also, an update to the OpenWall security workaround + (contrib/securelinux_fix.py) was included. Thanks to Marc Merlin. 2.0.2 (03-Mar-2001) Index: README.LINUX =================================================================== RCS file: /cvsroot/mailman/mailman/README.LINUX,v retrieving revision 1.6 retrieving revision 1.6.2.1 diff -u -r1.6 -r1.6.2.1 --- README.LINUX 2000/09/19 17:25:23 1.6 +++ README.LINUX 2001/03/12 19:21:50 1.6.2.1 @@ -1,5 +1,5 @@ Mailman - The GNU Mailing List Management System -Copyright (C) 1998,1999,2000 by the Free Software Foundation, Inc. +Copyright (C) 1998,1999,2000,2001 by the Free Software Foundation, Inc. 59 Temple Place - Suite 330, Boston, MA 02111-1307, USA GNU/LINUX ISSUES @@ -14,6 +14,11 @@ can cause "Operation not permitted" errors in MailList.Save() -- you will see a traceback. You must turn restricted hardlinks off. This is also known under the name of Openwall Security Patches. + +There is a workaround for this problem, you can use securelinux_fix.py +in the contrib directory (see the README.securelinux_fix.py). Note +that the script will not work until you move it in your installed +Mailman tree in the bin directory. Index: Mailman/ListAdmin.py =================================================================== RCS file: /cvsroot/mailman/mailman/Mailman/ListAdmin.py,v retrieving revision 1.47.2.1 retrieving revision 1.47.2.4 diff -u -r1.47.2.1 -r1.47.2.4 --- Mailman/ListAdmin.py 2001/03/02 23:32:15 1.47.2.1 +++ Mailman/ListAdmin.py 2001/03/07 23:26:49 1.47.2.4 @@ -1,4 +1,4 @@ -# Copyright (C) 1998,1999,2000 by the Free Software Foundation, Inc. +# Copyright (C) 1998,1999,2000,2001 by the Free Software Foundation, Inc. # # This program is free software; you can redistribute it and/or # modify it under the terms of the GNU General Public License @@ -327,8 +327,8 @@ # subscribe assert value == mm_cfg.SUBSCRIBE try: - self.ApprovedAddMember(addr, password, digest, lang) - except Errors.MMAlreadyMember: + self.ApprovedAddMember(addr, password, digest) + except Errors.MMAlreadyAMember: # User has already been subscribed, after sending the request pass # TBD: disgusting hack: ApprovedAddMember() can end up closing Index: Mailman/Version.py =================================================================== RCS file: /cvsroot/mailman/mailman/Mailman/Version.py,v retrieving revision 1.20.2.2 retrieving revision 1.20.2.3 diff -u -r1.20.2.2 -r1.20.2.3 --- Mailman/Version.py 2001/03/03 06:19:15 1.20.2.2 +++ Mailman/Version.py 2001/03/07 23:25:41 1.20.2.3 @@ -15,7 +15,7 @@ # Foundation, Inc., 59 Temple Place - Suite 330, Boston, MA 02111-1307, USA. # Mailman version -VERSION = "2.0.2" +VERSION = "2.0.3" # And as a hex number in the manner of PY_VERSION_HEX ALPHA = 0xa @@ -27,7 +27,7 @@ MAJOR_REV = 2 MINOR_REV = 0 -MICRO_REV = 2 +MICRO_REV = 3 REL_LEVEL = FINAL # at most 15 beta releases! REL_SERIAL = 0 Index: admin/www/download.ht =================================================================== RCS file: /cvsroot/mailman/mailman/admin/www/download.ht,v retrieving revision 1.5.2.2 retrieving revision 1.5.2.4 diff -u -r1.5.2.2 -r1.5.2.4 --- admin/www/download.ht 2001/03/03 06:18:47 1.5.2.2 +++ admin/www/download.ht 2001/03/12 19:33:49 1.5.2.4 @@ -65,9 +65,9 @@

          Downloading

          Version -(2.0.2, +(2.0.3, released on -Mar 3 2001) +Mar 12 2001) is the current GNU release. It is available from the following mirror sites:

            Index: admin/www/download.html =================================================================== RCS file: /cvsroot/mailman/mailman/admin/www/download.html,v retrieving revision 1.6.2.4 retrieving revision 1.6.2.6 diff -u -r1.6.2.4 -r1.6.2.6 --- admin/www/download.html 2001/03/03 06:18:47 1.6.2.4 +++ admin/www/download.html 2001/03/12 19:33:49 1.6.2.6 @@ -1,6 +1,6 @@ - + 2.0.2, +(2.0.3, released on -Mar 3 2001) +Mar 12 2001) is the current GNU release. It is available from the following mirror sites:
              Index: contrib/README.securelinux_fix =================================================================== RCS file: README.securelinux_fix diff -N README.securelinux_fix --- /dev/null Mon Dec 11 17:26:27 2000 +++ contrib/README.securelinux_fix Mon Mar 12 11:49:35 2001 @@ -0,0 +1,12 @@ +The securelinux_fix.py script, if copied in your installed +~mailman/bin/ directory and run from there will modify permissions of +files so that Mailman works despite the securelinux (aka openwall) +symbolic and hard link restrictions. + +The way it works is that it makes sure that the UID of any script that +touches config.db is `mailman'. What this means however is that +scripts in ~mailman/bin will now only work if run as user mailman or +root (the script then changes its UID and GID to mailman). + +Enjoy +Marc MERLIN / Index: contrib/securelinux_fix.py =================================================================== RCS file: /cvsroot/mailman/mailman/contrib/securelinux_fix.py,v retrieving revision 1.2 retrieving revision 1.2.2.1 diff -u -r1.2 -r1.2.2.1 --- contrib/securelinux_fix.py 2000/11/09 02:07:01 1.2 +++ contrib/securelinux_fix.py 2001/03/12 19:25:04 1.2.2.1 @@ -1,6 +1,6 @@ #! /usr/bin/env python # -# Copyright (C) 1998,1999,2000 by the Free Software Foundation, Inc. +# Copyright (C) 1998,1999,2000,2001 by the Free Software Foundation, Inc. # # This program is free software; you can redistribute it and/or # modify it under the terms of the GNU General Public License @@ -25,12 +25,12 @@ Mailman. The idea is that config.db files have to be owned by the mailman UID and only touched by programs that are UID mailman. -If you have to run check_perms -f, make sure to also run %(PROGRAM) -f, which -applies the necessary permission fixes +If you have to run check_perms -f, make sure to also run securelinux_fix.py +-f, which applies the necessary permission fixes. -As a result, to prevent anyone from running priviledged Mailman commands -\(since the scripts are suid), binary commands that are changed to be SUID are -also unreadable and unrunable by people who aren't in the mailman group. This +As a result, to prevent anyone from running privileged Mailman commands (since +the scripts are suid), binary commands that are changed to be SUID are also +unreadable and unrunnable by people who aren't in the mailman group. This shouldn't affect much since most of those commands would fail work if you weren't part of the mailman group anyway. @@ -45,8 +45,6 @@ from Mailman import mm_cfg from Mailman.mm_cfg import MAILMAN_UID, MAILMAN_GID from stat import * - -PROGRAM = sys.argv[0] # Those are the programs that we patch so that they insist being run under the # mailman uid or as root. --O17lvtC8kj-- From colinj@cs.unm.edu Mon Mar 12 22:32:43 2001 From: colinj@cs.unm.edu (Colin Eric Johnson) Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 15:32:43 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <15021.19890.887096.306934@anthem.wooz.org> Message-ID: Subject: away from my email I'm away from my email until March 19th. If you have questions about the computing systems at the University of New Mexico's Dept. of Computer Science please send mail to: cssupport@cs.unm.edu -Colin J. From a.gietl@e-admin.de Mon Mar 12 23:00:54 2001 From: a.gietl@e-admin.de (Andreas Gietl) Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 00:00:54 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Re: [Mailman-Announce] ANNOUNCE Mailman 2.0.3 References: <15021.19890.887096.306934@anthem.wooz.org> Message-ID: <3AAD5526.AFDA7B02@e-admin.de> it seems there's a problem with the configure script ... it always told me that the permissions on the install-directory should at least be 02755 - but they were 2755. So i had to comment the lines checking in configure out. Am i wrong or is there a bug? "Barry A. Warsaw" wrote: > > I'm sorry folks. As some of you are aware, a small but nasty typo > snuck its way into the Mailman 2.0.2 release, necessitating a bug fix > patch. Thus I've just uploaded Mailman 2.0.3 to SourceForge. I > highly recommend that you upgrade to this version. > > As usual I'm releasing this as both a complete tarball and as a patch > against Mailman 2.0.2. You /must/ update your source to 2.0.2 before > applying the 2.0.3 patch. Since the patch is small, I'm including it > in this message. To apply, cd into your 2.0.2 source tree and apply > it like so: > > % patch -p0 < mailman-2.0.2-2.0.3.diff > > Currently both http://mailman.sourceforge.net and http://www.list.org > are updated, and I expect the gnu.org site to be updated soon as > well. The release information on SF is at > > http://sourceforge.net/project/shownotes.php?release_id=27001 > > -Barry > > P.S. It was nice to meet so many Mailman fans at IPC9! It was also > quite cool to finally meet Thomas Wouters. Don't worry Thomas, I > won't hold this one against ya. :) > > [From the NEWS file] > > 2.0.3 (12-Mar-2001) > > Bug fix release. There was a small typo in 2.0.2 in ListAdmin.py > for approving an already subscribed member (thanks Thomas!). > Also, an update to the OpenWall security workaround > (contrib/securelinux_fix.py) was included. Thanks to Marc Merlin. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Index: NEWS > =================================================================== > RCS file: /cvsroot/mailman/mailman/NEWS,v > retrieving revision 1.25.2.2 > retrieving revision 1.25.2.4 > diff -u -r1.25.2.2 -r1.25.2.4 > --- NEWS 2001/03/03 06:51:26 1.25.2.2 > +++ NEWS 2001/03/12 19:32:10 1.25.2.4 > @@ -1,8 +1,15 @@ > Mailman - The GNU Mailing List Management System > -Copyright (C) 1998,1999,2000 by the Free Software Foundation, Inc. > +Copyright (C) 1998,1999,2000,2001 by the Free Software Foundation, Inc. > 59 Temple Place - Suite 330, Boston, MA 02111-1307, USA > > Here is a history of user visible changes to Mailman. > + > +2.0.3 (12-Mar-2001) > + > + Bug fix release. There was a small typo in 2.0.2 in ListAdmin.py > + for approving an already subscribed member (thanks Thomas!). > + Also, an update to the OpenWall security workaround > + (contrib/securelinux_fix.py) was included. Thanks to Marc Merlin. > > 2.0.2 (03-Mar-2001) > > Index: README.LINUX > =================================================================== > RCS file: /cvsroot/mailman/mailman/README.LINUX,v > retrieving revision 1.6 > retrieving revision 1.6.2.1 > diff -u -r1.6 -r1.6.2.1 > --- README.LINUX 2000/09/19 17:25:23 1.6 > +++ README.LINUX 2001/03/12 19:21:50 1.6.2.1 > @@ -1,5 +1,5 @@ > Mailman - The GNU Mailing List Management System > -Copyright (C) 1998,1999,2000 by the Free Software Foundation, Inc. > +Copyright (C) 1998,1999,2000,2001 by the Free Software Foundation, Inc. > 59 Temple Place - Suite 330, Boston, MA 02111-1307, USA > > GNU/LINUX ISSUES > @@ -14,6 +14,11 @@ > can cause "Operation not permitted" errors in MailList.Save() -- you > will see a traceback. You must turn restricted hardlinks off. This > is also known under the name of Openwall Security Patches. > + > +There is a workaround for this problem, you can use securelinux_fix.py > +in the contrib directory (see the README.securelinux_fix.py). Note > +that the script will not work until you move it in your installed > +Mailman tree in the bin directory. > > > > Index: Mailman/ListAdmin.py > =================================================================== > RCS file: /cvsroot/mailman/mailman/Mailman/ListAdmin.py,v > retrieving revision 1.47.2.1 > retrieving revision 1.47.2.4 > diff -u -r1.47.2.1 -r1.47.2.4 > --- Mailman/ListAdmin.py 2001/03/02 23:32:15 1.47.2.1 > +++ Mailman/ListAdmin.py 2001/03/07 23:26:49 1.47.2.4 > @@ -1,4 +1,4 @@ > -# Copyright (C) 1998,1999,2000 by the Free Software Foundation, Inc. > +# Copyright (C) 1998,1999,2000,2001 by the Free Software Foundation, Inc. > # > # This program is free software; you can redistribute it and/or > # modify it under the terms of the GNU General Public License > @@ -327,8 +327,8 @@ > # subscribe > assert value == mm_cfg.SUBSCRIBE > try: > - self.ApprovedAddMember(addr, password, digest, lang) > - except Errors.MMAlreadyMember: > + self.ApprovedAddMember(addr, password, digest) > + except Errors.MMAlreadyAMember: > # User has already been subscribed, after sending the request > pass > # TBD: disgusting hack: ApprovedAddMember() can end up closing > Index: Mailman/Version.py > =================================================================== > RCS file: /cvsroot/mailman/mailman/Mailman/Version.py,v > retrieving revision 1.20.2.2 > retrieving revision 1.20.2.3 > diff -u -r1.20.2.2 -r1.20.2.3 > --- Mailman/Version.py 2001/03/03 06:19:15 1.20.2.2 > +++ Mailman/Version.py 2001/03/07 23:25:41 1.20.2.3 > @@ -15,7 +15,7 @@ > # Foundation, Inc., 59 Temple Place - Suite 330, Boston, MA 02111-1307, USA. > > # Mailman version > -VERSION = "2.0.2" > +VERSION = "2.0.3" > > # And as a hex number in the manner of PY_VERSION_HEX > ALPHA = 0xa > @@ -27,7 +27,7 @@ > > MAJOR_REV = 2 > MINOR_REV = 0 > -MICRO_REV = 2 > +MICRO_REV = 3 > REL_LEVEL = FINAL > # at most 15 beta releases! > REL_SERIAL = 0 > Index: admin/www/download.ht > =================================================================== > RCS file: /cvsroot/mailman/mailman/admin/www/download.ht,v > retrieving revision 1.5.2.2 > retrieving revision 1.5.2.4 > diff -u -r1.5.2.2 -r1.5.2.4 > --- admin/www/download.ht 2001/03/03 06:18:47 1.5.2.2 > +++ admin/www/download.ht 2001/03/12 19:33:49 1.5.2.4 > @@ -65,9 +65,9 @@ >

              Downloading

              > >

              Version > -(2.0.2, > +(2.0.3, > released on > -Mar 3 2001) > +Mar 12 2001) > is the current GNU release. It is available from the following mirror sites: > >

                > Index: admin/www/download.html > =================================================================== > RCS file: /cvsroot/mailman/mailman/admin/www/download.html,v > retrieving revision 1.6.2.4 > retrieving revision 1.6.2.6 > diff -u -r1.6.2.4 -r1.6.2.6 > --- admin/www/download.html 2001/03/03 06:18:47 1.6.2.4 > +++ admin/www/download.html 2001/03/12 19:33:49 1.6.2.6 > @@ -1,6 +1,6 @@ > > > - > + > > > 2.0.2, > +(2.0.3, > released on > -Mar 3 2001) > +Mar 12 2001) > is the current GNU release. It is available from the following mirror sites: > >
                  > Index: contrib/README.securelinux_fix > =================================================================== > RCS file: README.securelinux_fix > diff -N README.securelinux_fix > --- /dev/null Mon Dec 11 17:26:27 2000 > +++ contrib/README.securelinux_fix Mon Mar 12 11:49:35 2001 > @@ -0,0 +1,12 @@ > +The securelinux_fix.py script, if copied in your installed > +~mailman/bin/ directory and run from there will modify permissions of > +files so that Mailman works despite the securelinux (aka openwall) > +symbolic and hard link restrictions. > + > +The way it works is that it makes sure that the UID of any script that > +touches config.db is `mailman'. What this means however is that > +scripts in ~mailman/bin will now only work if run as user mailman or > +root (the script then changes its UID and GID to mailman). > + > +Enjoy > +Marc MERLIN / > Index: contrib/securelinux_fix.py > =================================================================== > RCS file: /cvsroot/mailman/mailman/contrib/securelinux_fix.py,v > retrieving revision 1.2 > retrieving revision 1.2.2.1 > diff -u -r1.2 -r1.2.2.1 > --- contrib/securelinux_fix.py 2000/11/09 02:07:01 1.2 > +++ contrib/securelinux_fix.py 2001/03/12 19:25:04 1.2.2.1 > @@ -1,6 +1,6 @@ > #! /usr/bin/env python > # > -# Copyright (C) 1998,1999,2000 by the Free Software Foundation, Inc. > +# Copyright (C) 1998,1999,2000,2001 by the Free Software Foundation, Inc. > # > # This program is free software; you can redistribute it and/or > # modify it under the terms of the GNU General Public License > @@ -25,12 +25,12 @@ > Mailman. The idea is that config.db files have to be owned by the mailman UID > and only touched by programs that are UID mailman. > > -If you have to run check_perms -f, make sure to also run %(PROGRAM) -f, which > -applies the necessary permission fixes > +If you have to run check_perms -f, make sure to also run securelinux_fix.py > +-f, which applies the necessary permission fixes. > > -As a result, to prevent anyone from running priviledged Mailman commands > -\(since the scripts are suid), binary commands that are changed to be SUID are > -also unreadable and unrunable by people who aren't in the mailman group. This > +As a result, to prevent anyone from running privileged Mailman commands (since > +the scripts are suid), binary commands that are changed to be SUID are also > +unreadable and unrunnable by people who aren't in the mailman group. This > shouldn't affect much since most of those commands would fail work if you > weren't part of the mailman group anyway. > > @@ -45,8 +45,6 @@ > from Mailman import mm_cfg > from Mailman.mm_cfg import MAILMAN_UID, MAILMAN_GID > from stat import * > - > -PROGRAM = sys.argv[0] > > # Those are the programs that we patch so that they insist being run under the > # mailman uid or as root. -- ACHTUNG NEUE ADRESSE + Telefonnummer andreas gietl gietl internet services roter-brach-weg 124a / 93049 Regensburg fon +49 941 3810884 fax +49 941 3810891 mobile +49 171 60 70 008 gietl@gietl.com From jra@baylink.com Tue Mar 13 01:53:56 2001 From: jra@baylink.com (Jay R. Ashworth) Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 20:53:56 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Using Mailman as a broadcast list manager - folo In-Reply-To: <3AAD5526.AFDA7B02@e-admin.de>; from Andreas Gietl on Tue, Mar 13, 2001 at 12:00:54AM +0100 References: <15021.19890.887096.306934@anthem.wooz.org> <3AAD5526.AFDA7B02@e-admin.de> Message-ID: <20010312205356.52769@scfn.thpl.lib.fl.us> Well, everyone's apparently busy doing other stuff just now, so I hacked around in SMTPdirect.py, and added the following: ========================== # Split the recipient list into SMTP_MAX_RCPTS chunks. Most MTAs have a # limit on the number of recipients they'll swallow in a single # transaction. if mm_cfg.SMTP_MAX_RCPTS <= 0: chunks = [recips] else: chunks = chunkify(recips, mm_cfg.SMTP_MAX_RCPTS) refused = {} t0 = time.time() # Look in the list for a max/day, set up to pause for the necessary # amount of time. This will hose the efficiency logging stuff, # but I don't see any other approach... # grabbed from globals for now, til I unwind the context # Mon Mar 12 15:38:48 EST 2001 by jra@baylink.com msg_limit = 0 try: msg_limit = mm_cfg.MAX_MSGS_PER_DAY except: pass if msg_limit > 0: max_chunks_per_day = (msg_limit / mm_cfg.SMTP_MAX_RCPTS) delay_after_chunk = 86400 / max_chunks_per_day # We can improve performance by unlocking the list during delivery. We # must re-lock it though afterwards to ensure the pipeline delivery # invariant. try: mlist.Save() mlist.Unlock() if threading: threaded_deliver(admin, msgtext, chunks, refused) else: for chunk in chunks: deliver(admin, msgtext, chunk, refused) # throttle deliveries if msg_limit > 0: time.sleep(delay_after_chunk) finally: t1 = time.time() mlist.Lock() # Log the successful post syslog('smtp', 'smtp for %d recips, completed in %.3f seconds' % (len(recips), (t1-t0))) ================================ But I'm not sure how that's going to fly. Without a MAX_MSGS_PER_DAY set in mm_cfg.py, it doesn't seem to be affecting the bulk subscribe welcome messages... though I had to hand chunk those into 1000 address groups; add_members is simply *not* architected to load in 51,000 addresses at a time; the loops are too deep. Will this approach cause locking problems, etc? Cheers, -- jra -- Jay R. Ashworth jra@baylink.com Member of the Technical Staff Baylink The Suncoast Freenet The Things I Think Tampa Bay, Florida http://baylink.pitas.com +1 727 804 5015 From thomas@xs4all.net Tue Mar 13 02:37:10 2001 From: thomas@xs4all.net (Thomas Wouters) Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 03:37:10 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Re: [Mailman-Announce] ANNOUNCE Mailman 2.0.3 In-Reply-To: <3AAD5526.AFDA7B02@e-admin.de>; from a.gietl@e-admin.de on Tue, Mar 13, 2001 at 12:00:54AM +0100 References: <15021.19890.887096.306934@anthem.wooz.org> <3AAD5526.AFDA7B02@e-admin.de> Message-ID: <20010313033710.X404@xs4all.nl> On Tue, Mar 13, 2001 at 12:00:54AM +0100, Andreas Gietl wrote: > it seems there's a problem with the configure script ... it always told > me that the permissions on the install-directory should at least be > 02755 - but they were 2755. So i had to comment the lines checking in > configure out. Am i wrong or is there a bug? Well, nothing has changed in configure, neither in this patch nor the last. Are you sure both you and configure are looking at the *same* directory ? Configure complained to me, too, but legitimately, as the installation directory was not mode 02755. doing a 'chmod 02755 /usr/local/mailman' fixed it just fine, for me. PS: Try not to quote the entire message next time. Your message included Barry's whole message, including the patch he attached. PPS: I had a tremendous time at IPC9 as well. Meeting Barry finally put a voice and a speech pattern (not to mention height and build ;) to all his emails. At least now I can tell when he's joking or not :) -- Thomas Wouters Hi! I'm a .signature virus! copy me into your .signature file to help me spread! From barry@digicool.com Tue Mar 13 03:33:51 2001 From: barry@digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw) Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 22:33:51 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Re: [Mailman-Announce] ANNOUNCE Mailman 2.0.3 References: <15021.19890.887096.306934@anthem.wooz.org> <3AAD5526.AFDA7B02@e-admin.de> <20010313033710.X404@xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <15021.38175.797037.858922@anthem.wooz.org> >>>>> "TW" == Thomas Wouters writes: TW> PPS: I had a tremendous time at IPC9 as well. Meeting Barry TW> finally put a voice and a speech pattern (not to mention TW> height and build ;) to all his emails. At least now I can tell TW> when he's joking or not :) Ah, the perfidious (and tall) Dutch strike again! Fortunately, I confused a lot of people by that false picture on my home page. you'll-have-to-remind-me-when-i'm-/not/-joking-ly y'rs, -Barry From jcrey@uma.es Tue Mar 13 11:26:01 2001 From: jcrey@uma.es (Juan Carlos Rey Anaya) Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 12:26:01 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Playing with i18n Message-ID: <3AAE03C9.7B39EEA5@uma.es> I have uploaded my local copy of - English and spanish templates - spanish catalog, updated to March, 13th 2001 at ftp://ftp.uma.es/pub/mailman For those who would like to play with i18n. Cheers -- = ___ / F \ [[[]]]] ( O O ) #----------------0000--(_)--0000---------------# | Juan Carlos Rey Anaya (jcrey@uma.es) | | Servicio Central de inform=E1tica | | Universidad de M=E1laga - Espa=F1a | #----------------------------------------------# From tfheen@debian.org Tue Mar 13 16:13:08 2001 From: tfheen@debian.org (Tollef Fog Heen) Date: 13 Mar 2001 17:13:08 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Small patch concerning Debian bug #50583 Message-ID: <87lmq9k5pn.fsf@manon.intern.opera.no> Hi, I am the new Debian maintainer of Mailman, which means that I'll probably bug some of you concerning old bugs.. :) If any of the bugs listed at http://bugs.debian.org/mailman are fixed, I'd like to know, so that I can close them. (The bug report is at http://bugs.debian.org/50583 ). The patch is simple: --- bin/newlist~ Sat Mar 3 06:58:19 2001 +++ bin/newlist Tue Mar 13 17:06:48 2001 @@ -208,7 +208,8 @@ }) msg = Message.UserNotification( owner_mail, - 'mailman-owner@' + mlist.host_name, + MAILMAN_OWNER, +# 'mailman-owner@' + mlist.host_name, 'Your new mailing list: ' + listname, text) HandlerAPI.DeliverToUser(mlist, msg) However, it seems like mailman-owner is hard coded into templates/newlist.txt as well. -- Tollef Fog Heen Unix _IS_ user friendly... It's just selective about who its friends are. From jerry@hollyjerry.org Tue Mar 13 16:36:35 2001 From: jerry@hollyjerry.org (Jerry Asher) Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 08:36:35 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] mailman and the web In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <4.2.2.20010312193934.00d10170@hollyjerry.org> I would like to unify mailman with an ACS bboard. The Open ACS (http://openacs.org) is a toolkit developing interactive community websites based on PostgreSQL and Tcl. ACS Bboards are just what they sound like, a discussion forum in which visitors to a site can post questions, or post answers to the questions that others have asked. Currently the ACS system is such that visitors can request that follow up answers be sent to them, which the ACS implements by creating hundreds of individual emails and mailing them out. The "From" header is set to a bogus address (bboard-robot) and the Reply-To: header is set to the author of the new answer. Vacation messages get sent back to the author of the post. This means that if you reply to a message, the answer IS NOT posted on the bulletin board. I would like to "unify" the ACS bulletin board code with "some" mailing list manager. The benefits to the ACS toolkit I perceive would include: 1 detecting/catching vacation messages 2 detecting/catching/(and maybe unsubscribing) bounces 3 ability to post directly to the bulletin from email (and have the posts end up in the right threads) 4 but I am worried about mail loops. Can someone tell me "how well" Mailman performs at detecting/catching vacation and bounce messages? I know little about mailing lists, or Mailman, or mail headers. But with a few pointers, I am willing to learn. I wonder what the issues involved in this unification are? Are the four issues I am interested/worried significant enough that it makes sense to want to delegate this to Mailman? Or would it be easier/satisfactory to "just change the headers of the outgoing emails, and create some sort of procmail script to process new messages and post them into the right thread? If you feel that unification would be useful for my purposes, can someone tell me the right "places" in Mailman to get started? If I want to "inject" a message into Mailman for sending out to others, how would I do that? If I wanted to "capture" the incoming message for processing, where do I look for that? And how might I implement threading? Thank you, Jerry Asher ===================================================== Jerry Asher jerry@hollyjerry.org 1678 Shattuck Avenue Suite 161 Tel: (510) 549-2980 Berkeley, CA 94709 Fax: (877) 311-8688 From jra@baylink.com Tue Mar 13 16:40:02 2001 From: jra@baylink.com (Jay R. Ashworth) Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 11:40:02 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] mailman and the web In-Reply-To: <4.2.2.20010312193934.00d10170@hollyjerry.org>; from Jerry Asher on Tue, Mar 13, 2001 at 08:36:35AM -0800 References: <4.2.2.20010312193934.00d10170@hollyjerry.org> Message-ID: <20010313114002.62643@scfn.thpl.lib.fl.us> On Tue, Mar 13, 2001 at 08:36:35AM -0800, Jerry Asher wrote: > 4 but I am worried about mail loops. > > Can someone tell me "how well" Mailman performs at detecting/catching > vacation and bounce messages? Well, I can pipe in on this one part of the topic. [Part of] The problem is that there are some vacation daemons that are poorly written, and send notices to the wrong place... Cheers, -- jra -- Jay R. Ashworth jra@baylink.com Member of the Technical Staff Baylink The Suncoast Freenet The Things I Think Tampa Bay, Florida http://baylink.pitas.com +1 727 804 5015 From chris@greatbridge.com Tue Mar 13 17:16:32 2001 From: chris@greatbridge.com (Chris Ryan) Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 12:16:32 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] mailman and the web References: <4.2.2.20010312193934.00d10170@hollyjerry.org> Message-ID: <3AAE55F0.6A8A2F65@greatbridge.com> Jerry, Currently I'm working on developing code for Mailman that will allow Mailman to work using any appropiate datasource. I plan on implimenting the flatfile (currently what is used today) and a PostgreSQL database datasource. I should have the first draft of the interface up on the Mailman ZWiki page by the end of the day. Stay tuned for more information on that. In regards to a Mail/Forum combination that is also one of my end goals. The following plan is as such for entire layout: Phase 1: Mailman uses database for configuration Phase 2: Mailman uses database for archives Phase 3: Develop Php front-end for Archives/Admin utils Phase 4: Incorporate/develop a forum ontop of previous changes In the spirit of open source the first 3 phases will be contributed back to Mailman in some manner. I don't know all the details about phase 4 as of yet so I can't say if that will be contributed back or not as a usefull piece for Mailman. I'm hoping to get the interface squared away soon at which point any help would be wonderful for the conversion of mailman to use the interface and the development of any datasources that people would wish Mailman to use. Chris Ryan chris@greatbridge.com Jerry Asher wrote: > > I would like to unify mailman with an ACS bboard. The Open ACS > (http://openacs.org) is a toolkit developing interactive community websites > based on PostgreSQL and Tcl. ACS Bboards are just what they sound like, a > discussion forum in which visitors to a site can post questions, or post > answers to the questions that others have asked. > > Currently the ACS system is such that visitors can request that follow up > answers be sent to them, which the ACS implements by creating hundreds of > individual emails and mailing them out. The "From" header is set to a > bogus address (bboard-robot) and the Reply-To: header is set to the author > of the new answer. Vacation messages get sent back to the author of the > post. This means that if you reply to a message, the answer IS NOT posted > on the bulletin board. > > I would like to "unify" the ACS bulletin board code with "some" mailing > list manager. The benefits to the ACS toolkit I perceive would include: > > 1 detecting/catching vacation messages > 2 detecting/catching/(and maybe unsubscribing) bounces > 3 ability to post directly to the bulletin from email > (and have the posts end up in the right threads) > > 4 but I am worried about mail loops. > > Can someone tell me "how well" Mailman performs at detecting/catching > vacation and bounce messages? > > I know little about mailing lists, or Mailman, or mail headers. But with a > few pointers, I am willing to learn. > > I wonder what the issues involved in this unification are? Are the four > issues I am interested/worried significant enough that it makes sense to > want to delegate this to Mailman? Or would it be easier/satisfactory to > "just change the headers of the outgoing emails, and create some sort of > procmail script to process new messages and post them into the right thread? > > If you feel that unification would be useful for my purposes, can someone > tell me the right "places" in Mailman to get started? If I want to > "inject" a message into Mailman for sending out to others, how would I do > that? If I wanted to "capture" the incoming message for processing, where > do I look for that? And how might I implement threading? > > Thank you, > > Jerry Asher > ===================================================== > Jerry Asher jerry@hollyjerry.org > 1678 Shattuck Avenue Suite 161 Tel: (510) 549-2980 > Berkeley, CA 94709 Fax: (877) 311-8688 > > _______________________________________________ > Mailman-Developers mailing list > Mailman-Developers@python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers From jerry@hollyjerry.org Tue Mar 13 17:23:28 2001 From: jerry@hollyjerry.org (Jerry Asher) Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 09:23:28 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] mailman and the web In-Reply-To: <3AAE55F0.6A8A2F65@greatbridge.com> References: <4.2.2.20010312193934.00d10170@hollyjerry.org> Message-ID: <4.2.2.20010313091845.00d26e30@hollyjerry.org> Chris, Sounds good, I'll be looking for your draft later on. > I'm hoping to get the interface squared away soon at which point any >help would be wonderful for the conversion of mailman to use the >interface and the development of any datasources that people would wish >Mailman to use. I'll be happy to help as I can, I can certainly help in the end step, step 4, by testing/converting the ACS to use your interface. When you write, >Phase 3: Develop Php front-end for Archives/Admin utils That makes me curious. I know Tcl (and C, LISP, etc.) but not Python or PHP. One reason for undertaking this project was to give me something "real" to focus on while learning Python. My understanding was that Python and PHP are somewhat competing technologies. Mailman is a Python tool right? What makes you choose Php for front-end development? Thanks, Jerry At 12:16 PM 3/13/01 -0500, Chris Ryan wrote: >Jerry, > > Currently I'm working on developing code for Mailman that will allow >Mailman to work using any appropiate datasource. I plan on implimenting >the flatfile (currently what is used today) and a PostgreSQL database >datasource. I should have the first draft of the interface up on the >Mailman ZWiki page by the end of the day. Stay tuned for more >information on that. > > In regards to a Mail/Forum combination that is also one of my end >goals. The following plan is as such for entire layout: > >Phase 1: Mailman uses database for configuration >Phase 2: Mailman uses database for archives >Phase 3: Develop Php front-end for Archives/Admin utils >Phase 4: Incorporate/develop a forum ontop of previous changes > > In the spirit of open source the first 3 phases will be contributed >back to Mailman in some manner. I don't know all the details about phase >4 as of yet so I can't say if that will be contributed back or not as a >usefull piece for Mailman. > > I'm hoping to get the interface squared away soon at which point any >help would be wonderful for the conversion of mailman to use the >interface and the development of any datasources that people would wish >Mailman to use. > >Chris Ryan >chris@greatbridge.com > >Jerry Asher wrote: > > > > I would like to unify mailman with an ACS bboard. The Open ACS > > (http://openacs.org) is a toolkit developing interactive community websites > > based on PostgreSQL and Tcl. ACS Bboards are just what they sound like, a > > discussion forum in which visitors to a site can post questions, or post > > answers to the questions that others have asked. > > > > Currently the ACS system is such that visitors can request that follow up > > answers be sent to them, which the ACS implements by creating hundreds of > > individual emails and mailing them out. The "From" header is set to a > > bogus address (bboard-robot) and the Reply-To: header is set to the author > > of the new answer. Vacation messages get sent back to the author of the > > post. This means that if you reply to a message, the answer IS NOT posted > > on the bulletin board. > > > > I would like to "unify" the ACS bulletin board code with "some" mailing > > list manager. The benefits to the ACS toolkit I perceive would include: > > > > 1 detecting/catching vacation messages > > 2 detecting/catching/(and maybe unsubscribing) bounces > > 3 ability to post directly to the bulletin from email > > (and have the posts end up in the right threads) > > > > 4 but I am worried about mail loops. > > > > Can someone tell me "how well" Mailman performs at detecting/catching > > vacation and bounce messages? > > > > I know little about mailing lists, or Mailman, or mail headers. But with a > > few pointers, I am willing to learn. > > > > I wonder what the issues involved in this unification are? Are the four > > issues I am interested/worried significant enough that it makes sense to > > want to delegate this to Mailman? Or would it be easier/satisfactory to > > "just change the headers of the outgoing emails, and create some sort of > > procmail script to process new messages and post them into the right > thread? > > > > If you feel that unification would be useful for my purposes, can someone > > tell me the right "places" in Mailman to get started? If I want to > > "inject" a message into Mailman for sending out to others, how would I do > > that? If I wanted to "capture" the incoming message for processing, where > > do I look for that? And how might I implement threading? > > > > Thank you, > > > > Jerry Asher > > ===================================================== > > Jerry Asher jerry@hollyjerry.org > > 1678 Shattuck Avenue Suite 161 Tel: (510) 549-2980 > > Berkeley, CA 94709 Fax: (877) 311-8688 > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Mailman-Developers mailing list > > Mailman-Developers@python.org > > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers ===================================================== Jerry Asher jerry@hollyjerry.org 1678 Shattuck Avenue Suite 161 Tel: (510) 549-2980 Berkeley, CA 94709 Fax: (877) 311-8688 From haroldp@sierraweb.com Tue Mar 13 17:49:23 2001 From: haroldp@sierraweb.com (Harold Paulson) Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 09:49:23 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] PHP wrappers? Message-ID: Hey, I was trying to wrap several of the Mailman CLI tools (list_lists and such) in a little PHP so I could easily integrate them into a larger web site. Using PHP's System() function and the backtick operator to exec the Mailman tools never seems to result in any output, but no errors either. However, I can drop a script of my own (a little Perl hack or whatever) in the ~mailman/bin directory with the same ownership and permissions, and it seems to exec just fine. Any idea what I'm overlooking? - H -- Harold Paulson Sierra Web Design haroldp@sierraweb.com http://www.sierraweb.com VOICE: 775.833.9500 FAX: 810.314.1517 From chris@greatbridge.com Tue Mar 13 18:21:56 2001 From: chris@greatbridge.com (Chris Ryan) Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 13:21:56 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] PHP wrappers? References: Message-ID: <3AAE6544.33B88A20@greatbridge.com> You may want to check for things such as PATH information as it could be that when executing the script it can't find python executable. One possible idea is try executing your command in a fasion like: system("myprogram arg1 arg2 2>&1"); This may help by showing any output that gets sent to stderr on stdout. Chris Ryan chris@greatbridge.com Harold Paulson wrote: > > Hey, > > I was trying to wrap several of the Mailman CLI tools (list_lists and > such) in a little PHP so I could easily integrate them into a larger > web site. Using PHP's System() function and the backtick operator to > exec the Mailman tools never seems to result in any output, but no > errors either. However, I can drop a script of my own (a little Perl > hack or whatever) in the ~mailman/bin directory with the same > ownership and permissions, and it seems to exec just fine. > > Any idea what I'm overlooking? > > - H > > -- > > Harold Paulson Sierra Web Design > haroldp@sierraweb.com http://www.sierraweb.com > VOICE: 775.833.9500 FAX: 810.314.1517 > > _______________________________________________ > Mailman-Developers mailing list > Mailman-Developers@python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers From chris@greatbridge.com Tue Mar 13 18:33:50 2001 From: chris@greatbridge.com (Chris Ryan) Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 13:33:50 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] DRAFT Datasource Interface v0.1 Message-ID: <3AAE680E.D935757B@greatbridge.com> All, I've written up a templatish python code of the inteface with some comments and the like. I've placed everything on the Mailman ZWiki page http://www.zope.org/Members/bwarsaw/MailmanDesignNotes/CentralizedUserDatabase at Ricardo's sugestion so that you may all read it over and comment/add/substract ?delete? :). There were a few places that I left empty in the interface but I commented about it these were The Admin/Request/Postings Response classes and the bounce_info stuff which will be located in the BounceData class. This was due to my lack of overall understanding of what these are at this time. Feel Free to fill them in following the overall flow of the rest. Once we get something that is more or less acceptable my next step will be to impliment the interface to use the existing method of data storage. Then I would start modifying the code to use the interface. Once I've got the interface implimented we should have a concreate definition and anyone should be able to write a datasource driver using the interface to access what ever source they wish to use. Chris Ryan chris@greatbridge.com From barry@digicool.com Tue Mar 13 18:37:31 2001 From: barry@digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw) Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 13:37:31 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] DRAFT Datasource Interface v0.1 References: <3AAE680E.D935757B@greatbridge.com> Message-ID: <15022.26859.347013.977507@anthem.wooz.org> Thanks Chris. My workload's a bit backed up now that IPC9 is over, so I'm not sure when I'll get a chance to review this. I'll try to take a look some time this weekend. -Barry From jarrell@vt.edu Tue Mar 13 20:02:10 2001 From: jarrell@vt.edu (Ron Jarrell) Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 15:02:10 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] PHP wrappers? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20010313150111.02cdd750@vtserf.cc.vt.edu> At 09:49 AM 3/13/01 -0800, Harold Paulson wrote: >Hey, > >I was trying to wrap several of the Mailman CLI tools (list_lists and such) in a little PHP so I could easily integrate them into a larger web site. Using PHP's System() function and the backtick operator to exec the Mailman tools never seems to result in any output, but no errors either. However, I can drop a script of my own (a little Perl hack or whatever) in the ~mailman/bin directory with the same ownership and permissions, and it seems to exec just fine. Harold, most of those commands user env to find where python is. If it's not in your web servers search path, you won't find it. The scripts you wrote probably spell out the path to perl... From room_maildev@bbs.pixel.citadel.org Tue Mar 13 21:57:24 2001 From: room_maildev@bbs.pixel.citadel.org (Patriot) Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 16:57:24 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Here's a little issue with the news gatewaying: If the n Message-ID: <318196@bbs.pixel.citadel.org> Here's a little issue with the news gatewaying: If the news server you're trying to get to is down, or is slow and having problems mailman creates a lock file and doesn't unlock. The next time (every 5 minutes in my case) the gateway attempts to run the lock files are in place and it evidently fails. Is there anything I can do to clear those lock files manually, or, more importantly, is there anyway that mailman can be configured to time out, and remove its own lockfiles/ thanks. From barry@digicool.com Tue Mar 13 22:04:44 2001 From: barry@digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw) Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 17:04:44 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Here's a little issue with the news gatewaying: If the n References: <318196@bbs.pixel.citadel.org> Message-ID: <15022.39292.637113.840278@anthem.wooz.org> >>>>> "P" == Patriot writes: P> Here's a little issue with the news gatewaying: If the news P> server you're trying to get to is down, or is slow and having P> problems mailman creates a lock file and doesn't unlock. The P> next time (every 5 minutes in my case) the gateway attempts to P> run the lock files are in place and it evidently fails. Is P> there anything I can do to clear those lock files manually, or, P> more importantly, is there anyway that mailman can be P> configured to time out, and remove its own lockfiles/ Hmm, I'm not entirely sure I believe that. cron/gate_news has a try/finally that should force the release of the global gate_news lock when any error occurs. So the news->mail path should be safe. The mail->news path is a little trickier because Mailman 2.0.x forks a child to do the delivery in that direction. The child will os._exit() without ever releasing the lock, but by the same token, no nntp exceptions should percolate to the parent, and the parent is the process owning the lock and thus making sure it gets released. Because the child process never needs to write to the MailList, it doesn't own the lock. Note that this has changed a bit in Mailman 2.1, where mail->news is implemented by a completely separate queue. Thus there are no child processes needed, and the list is never locked by this queue. gate_news hasn't changed substantially in this regard in 2.1. -Barry From room_maildev@bbs.pixel.citadel.org Tue Mar 13 22:13:11 2001 From: room_maildev@bbs.pixel.citadel.org (Patriot) Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 17:13:11 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] I'm using 2.0.1, currently, I should have mentioned that. Message-ID: <318290@bbs.pixel.citadel.org> I'm using 2.0.1, currently, I should have mentioned that. Thanks for getting back so quickly. :) What I've been seeing is this (and please note, there's not timestamp on the lockfiles that are created, only a datestamp): ~mailman/locks/gate_news.lock ~mailman/gate_news.lock.my.hostname.org.pid And then also the newsgroup lock files. Recently I've been having problems with my ISP's newsserver and all I'm seeing are the gate_news.lock files. They don't seem to go away (but I have no way of PROVING that because there's no time stamps. Sample: -rw-rw-r-- 2 mailman mailman 58 Mar 14 2001 gate_news.lock -rw-rw-r-- 2 mailman mailman 58 Mar 14 2001 gate_news.lock.my.host.org.pid However, I DID have one that was a day old, which is where I'm presuming this problem is coming from. After I removed the lock, the next time gate_news runs it imports the newsgroups (assuming the news server is up). That's about the only place where I see the problem, and like I said, removing the lockfiles makes it work the next time around. If I'm on the wrong track for debugging this let me know so I can take a look in the right place. :) From barry@digicool.com Tue Mar 13 22:21:18 2001 From: barry@digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw) Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 17:21:18 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] I'm using 2.0.1, currently, I should have mentioned that. References: <318290@bbs.pixel.citadel.org> Message-ID: <15022.40286.965604.978625@anthem.wooz.org> >>>>> "P" == Patriot writes: P> I'm using 2.0.1, currently, I should have mentioned that. P> Thanks for getting back so quickly. :) You hit me at a good time. :) P> What I've been seeing is this (and please note, there's not P> timestamp on the lockfiles that are created, only a datestamp): P> ~mailman/locks/gate_news.lock P> ~mailman/gate_news.lock.my.hostname.org.pid P> And then also the newsgroup lock files. Recently I've been P> having problems with my ISP's newsserver and all I'm seeing are P> the gate_news.lock files. They don't seem to go away (but I P> have no way of PROVING that because there's no time stamps. ls won't show you a timestamp because of the funky trick that LockFile plays with them. It actually uses an mtime in the future to indicate the expected lifetime of the lock. A bit cheesy but allows for much more atomic lifetime setting than scribbling the timestamp into the file. P> However, I DID have one that was a day old, which is where I'm P> presuming this problem is coming from. After I removed the P> lock, the next time gate_news runs it imports the newsgroups P> (assuming the news server is up). Okay, so the gate_news lock is definitely outliving the process. Note if you waited long enough (10 hours ) the lock would get broken and things would start flowing again. P> That's about the only place where I see the problem, and like P> I said, removing the lockfiles makes it work the next time P> around. If I'm on the wrong track for debugging this let me P> know so I can take a look in the right place. :) Check the logs/error file for entries that start with "gate_news". Having the traceback will be essential in figuring out what's going wrong. -Barry From room_maildev@bbs.pixel.citadel.org Tue Mar 13 22:27:11 2001 From: room_maildev@bbs.pixel.citadel.org (Patriot) Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 17:27:11 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] The error log's not showing me anything useful...nothing I Message-ID: <318364@bbs.pixel.citadel.org> The error log's not showing me anything useful...nothing I didn't already know anyhow. It shows me that the connection to my news server was refused (they were working on it). The fromusenet log: Mar 13 15:15:01 2001 (32476) Could not acquire gate_news lock There's a ton of those (every 5 minutes, ). Again, the ONLY thing I can see it could be is that the lock file didn't wipe itself because of the newsserver being crapped out. And I shoulda realized that in 10 hours it would have fixed itself. but even so I ain't that patient. :) From barry@digicool.com Tue Mar 13 22:46:23 2001 From: barry@digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw) Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 17:46:23 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] The error log's not showing me anything useful...nothing I References: <318364@bbs.pixel.citadel.org> Message-ID: <15022.41791.977018.838548@anthem.wooz.org> >>>>> "P" == Patriot writes: P> The error log's not showing me anything useful...nothing I P> didn't already know anyhow. It shows me that the connection to P> my news server was refused (they were working on it). The P> fromusenet log: P> Mar 13 15:15:01 2001 (32476) Could not acquire gate_news lock P> There's a ton of those (every 5 minutes, ). Again, the P> ONLY thing I can see it could be is that the lock file didn't P> wipe itself because of the newsserver being crapped out. And I P> shoulda realized that in 10 hours it would have fixed itself. P> but even so I ain't that patient. :) No traceback in logs/error before the stale lock starts showing up? -Barry From room_maildev@bbs.pixel.citadel.org Tue Mar 13 22:52:11 2001 From: room_maildev@bbs.pixel.citadel.org (Patriot) Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 17:52:11 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] (no subject) Message-ID: <318434@bbs.pixel.citadel.org> That's what I get each time this happens (UI have a crappy ISP.) From jra@baylink.com Tue Mar 13 22:54:30 2001 From: jra@baylink.com (Jay R. Ashworth) Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 17:54:30 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Here's a little issue with the news gatewaying: If the n In-Reply-To: <15022.39292.637113.840278@anthem.wooz.org>; from "Barry A. Warsaw" on Tue, Mar 13, 2001 at 05:04:44PM -0500 References: <318196@bbs.pixel.citadel.org> <15022.39292.637113.840278@anthem.wooz.org> Message-ID: <20010313175430.51812@scfn.thpl.lib.fl.us> On Tue, Mar 13, 2001 at 05:04:44PM -0500, Barry A. Warsaw wrote: > Note that this has changed a bit in Mailman 2.1, where mail->news is > implemented by a completely separate queue. Thus there are no child > processes needed, and the list is never locked by this queue. > gate_news hasn't changed substantially in this regard in 2.1. Barry? How far along the garden path *is* 2.1? I've just gotten shot in the head with a 1000:1 slowdown on batch adds for send a welcome vs don't... along with one or two other items. Time to bring them up? Or past...? Cheers, -- jra -- Jay R. Ashworth jra@baylink.com Member of the Technical Staff Baylink The Suncoast Freenet The Things I Think Tampa Bay, Florida http://baylink.pitas.com +1 727 804 5015 From barry@digicool.com Tue Mar 13 23:24:04 2001 From: barry@digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw) Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 18:24:04 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Here's a little issue with the news gatewaying: If the n References: <318196@bbs.pixel.citadel.org> <15022.39292.637113.840278@anthem.wooz.org> <20010313175430.51812@scfn.thpl.lib.fl.us> Message-ID: <15022.44052.277026.853903@anthem.wooz.org> >>>>> "JRA" == Jay R Ashworth writes: JRA> Barry? How far along the garden path *is* 2.1? It's in alpha, and AFAIK isn't being used by anyone except for testing purposes. In fact there have been zero downloads from SF so I wonder if you all are just ignoring it, or if everyone uses CVS. :) Still, I'm relatively confident that what's there mostly works (more confident about the new queuing stuff, less so about the i18n stuff). JRA> I've just gotten shot in the head with a 1000:1 slowdown on JRA> batch adds for send a welcome vs don't... along with one or JRA> two other items. JRA> Time to bring them up? Or past...? You can always bring them up, but the best place to record them for posterity is in the SF tracker. Put it in the feature requests tracker or bug tracker as appropriate. There's just too much chance that it'll get lost in my inbox. Or use the wiki for discussion purposes if you want. The wiki already contains what I think I can get to for 2.1. I want to try to be conservative with changes because the i18n stuff really needs to get out there. Still, I think some of the changes I've made already will help get a bunch of new features into the code base. I use the same approach for Python development -- new features are on the table until the first beta release. I'm trying to keep any changes to the underlying "database" off the table for 2.1 because I think that'll push 2.1 back too far. My best guess at the moment is that we might see a beta of 2.1 by May. I'll be concentrating on several other projects over the next few weeks though, so Mailman hacking will be a spare-time affair. There's Python 2.1 to work on, and I'm committed to working on BSDDB support for ZODB. This latter may have good side benefits for Mailman 3.0. There's also some talk about more focussed Mailman work for some clients, but I don't have much information about that at the moment. -Barry From room_maildev@bbs.pixel.citadel.org Tue Mar 13 23:35:21 2001 From: room_maildev@bbs.pixel.citadel.org (Patriot) Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 18:35:21 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] > [#318434@bbs.pixel.citadel.org] Mar 13 2001 5:51pm from P Message-ID: <318468@bbs.pixel.citadel.org> > [#318434@bbs.pixel.citadel.org] Mar 13 2001 5:51pm from Patriot @pixel > That's what I get each time this happens (UI have a crappy ISP.) > > > Hmm. Apparently my cut and paste went horribly awry: Mar 12 17:35:00 2001 gate_news(20198): Traceback (innermost last): Mar 12 17:35:00 2001 gate_news(20198): File "/home/mailman/cron/gate_news", line 222, in ? Mar 12 17:35:00 2001 gate_news(20198): main() Mar 12 17:35:00 2001 gate_news(20198): File "/home/mailman/cron/gate_news", line 203, in main Mar 12 17:35:00 2001 gate_news(20198): process_lists(lock) Mar 12 17:35:00 2001 gate_news(20198): File "/home/mailman/cron/gate_news", line 148, in process_lists Mar 12 17:35:00 2001 gate_news(20198): conn, first, last = open_newsgroup(mlist) Mar 12 17:35:00 2001 gate_news(20198): File "/home/mailman/cron/gate_news", line 75, in open_newsgroup Mar 12 17:35:00 2001 gate_news(20198): password=mm_cfg.NNTP_PASSWORD) Mar 12 17:35:00 2001 gate_news(20198): File "/home/mailman/Mailman/pythonlib/nntplib.py", line 111, in __init__ Mar 12 17:35:00 2001 gate_news(20198): self.sock.connect((self.host, self.port)) Mar 12 17:35:00 2001 gate_news(20198): socket . error : (113, 'No route to host') From jarrell@vt.edu Tue Mar 13 23:52:30 2001 From: jarrell@vt.edu (Ron Jarrell) Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 18:52:30 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Here's a little issue with the news gatewaying: If the n In-Reply-To: <15022.44052.277026.853903@anthem.wooz.org> References: <318196@bbs.pixel.citadel.org> <15022.39292.637113.840278@anthem.wooz.org> <20010313175430.51812@scfn.thpl.lib.fl.us> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20010313185038.03f34e00@vtserf.cc.vt.edu> At 06:24 PM 3/13/01 -0500, you wrote: >>>>>> "JRA" == Jay R Ashworth writes: > > JRA> Barry? How far along the garden path *is* 2.1? > >It's in alpha, and AFAIK isn't being used by anyone except for testing >purposes. In fact there have been zero downloads from SF so I wonder >if you all are just ignoring it, or if everyone uses CVS. :) I know I work off the CVS tree, although I haven't had a chance to look at my changes vs. your changes to see if you missed anything out of what I fixed in the last go round... I never bother downloading anything from SF, since my tree is usually current. From jra@baylink.com Wed Mar 14 03:54:57 2001 From: jra@baylink.com (Jay R. Ashworth) Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 22:54:57 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Here's a little issue with the news gatewaying: If the n In-Reply-To: <15022.44052.277026.853903@anthem.wooz.org>; from "Barry A. Warsaw" on Tue, Mar 13, 2001 at 06:24:04PM -0500 References: <318196@bbs.pixel.citadel.org> <15022.39292.637113.840278@anthem.wooz.org> <20010313175430.51812@scfn.thpl.lib.fl.us> <15022.44052.277026.853903@anthem.wooz.org> Message-ID: <20010313225457.39716@scfn.thpl.lib.fl.us> On Tue, Mar 13, 2001 at 06:24:04PM -0500, Barry A. Warsaw wrote: > >>>>> "JRA" == Jay R Ashworth writes: > JRA> Barry? How far along the garden path *is* 2.1? > > It's in alpha, and AFAIK isn't being used by anyone except for testing > purposes. In fact there have been zero downloads from SF so I wonder > if you all are just ignoring it, or if everyone uses CVS. :) > > Still, I'm relatively confident that what's there mostly works (more > confident about the new queuing stuff, less so about the i18n stuff). Got it. I presume SF has release notes, as they're built, too? > JRA> I've just gotten shot in the head with a 1000:1 slowdown on > JRA> batch adds for send a welcome vs don't... along with one or > JRA> two other items. > JRA> Time to bring them up? Or past...? > > You can always bring them up, but the best place to record them for > posterity is in the SF tracker. Put it in the feature requests > tracker or bug tracker as appropriate. There's just too much chance > that it'll get lost in my inbox. Noted. > Or use the wiki for discussion purposes if you want. The wiki already > contains what I think I can get to for 2.1. I want to try to be > conservative with changes because the i18n stuff really needs to get > out there. Still, I think some of the changes I've made already will > help get a bunch of new features into the code base. Got it. Well, the code base is pretty clean looking, at least the parts I've gotten into, even if my understanding of python is not. Any internals doco written yet? Is their a second tier of hackers following the list? And will Python 2 finally get around to showing not only the call but the *values* in tracebacks? :-) Cheers, -- jra -- Jay R. Ashworth jra@baylink.com Member of the Technical Staff Baylink The Suncoast Freenet The Things I Think Tampa Bay, Florida http://baylink.pitas.com +1 727 804 5015 From barry@digicool.com Wed Mar 14 05:20:16 2001 From: barry@digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw) Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 00:20:16 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Here's a little issue with the news gatewaying: If the n References: <318196@bbs.pixel.citadel.org> <15022.39292.637113.840278@anthem.wooz.org> <20010313175430.51812@scfn.thpl.lib.fl.us> <15022.44052.277026.853903@anthem.wooz.org> <20010313225457.39716@scfn.thpl.lib.fl.us> Message-ID: <15022.65424.707104.510698@anthem.wooz.org> >>>>> "JRA" == Jay R Ashworth writes: JRA> Got it. I presume SF has release notes, as they're built, JRA> too? There's moderate release notes in the files view, and of course I try to keep the NEWS file up-to-date, at least with the gross user visible changes. As Thomas can tell you, I'm pretty anal about check-in messages, so when in doubt, cvs log is your best friend. :) >> Or use the wiki for discussion purposes if you want. The wiki >> already contains what I think I can get to for 2.1. I want to >> try to be conservative with changes because the i18n stuff >> really needs to get out there. Still, I think some of the >> changes I've made already will help get a bunch of new features >> into the code base. JRA> Got it. Well, the code base is pretty clean looking, at JRA> least the parts I've gotten into, even if my understanding of JRA> python is not. Thanks! I recently read Richard Gabriel's book and while it was kind of inconsistent, the part I really liked is the idea that code should be habitable. As I concentrate on and rewrite various parts of the code base, I try to keep that in mind. JRA> Any internals doco written yet? Is their a second tier of JRA> hackers following the list? Thomas? :) JRA> And will Python 2 finally get around to showing not only the JRA> call but the *values* in tracebacks? :-) Oh man, you should have seen Ka-Ping Yee's cgi driver thingie. Among the /many/ cool things he demoed at IPC9 (and it seemed like he demoed a new cool thing every day) was a cgi driver much like Mailman's driver, but which provided an awesome traceback view with values, and probably more. I'm Cc'ing him because I doubt he's on this list. I'm hoping I can prod him into talking more about it. :) It'd be way cool to adopt either for Python itself or for non-stealthy Mailman tracebacks. -Barry From ricardo@rixhq.nu Wed Mar 14 07:10:25 2001 From: ricardo@rixhq.nu (Ricardo Kustner) Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 08:10:25 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] DRAFT Datasource Interface v0.1 In-Reply-To: <3AAE680E.D935757B@greatbridge.com>; from chris@greatbridge.com on Tue, Mar 13, 2001 at 01:33:50PM -0500 References: <3AAE680E.D935757B@greatbridge.com> Message-ID: <20010314081025.A14725@rix.rixhq.nu> Hi, First of all, a disclaimer :) I'm not a core mailman developer but I'm interested in helping out with this and I (think I) know a bit about the internal workings as I've been following mailman development for a while now... On Tue, Mar 13, 2001 at 01:33:50PM -0500, Chris Ryan wrote: > http://www.zope.org/Members/bwarsaw/MailmanDesignNotes/CentralizedUserDatabase > at Ricardo's sugestion so that you may all read it over and > comment/add/substract ?delete? :). Looks great ! I'd also suggest using ZWiki's feature to create subpages and/or subsections on the same page; If we get one long page with information it could get a bit hard to follow. For example you could divide it into the phases you wrote about earlier. > Once we get something that is more or less acceptable my next step will > be to impliment the interface to use the existing method of data > storage. Then I would start modifying the code to use the interface. > Once I've got the interface implimented we should have a concreate > definition and anyone should be able to write a datasource driver using > the interface to access what ever source they wish to use. That's were I definately want to step in... I could work on a mysql driver. Anyway, I also wanted to comment a bit on the draft you wrote: - I see you created seperate functions for a lot of related things, like getting a list of subscribers and digest subscribers, or both. Is there a specific reason for that? To me it looks like it might generate some duplicated code... what are you thoughts on how to handle code re-use? same goes for getting the flags for a member. Maybe it's something you already thought about, but I just wanted to point it out just to be sure. - At some points mailman might need to find a specific list of subscribers... though it's possible to load the entire list into memory with listMembers() and work on that with python code, I think it would be nice for peformance reasons to be able to use sql queries in the backend so maybe that's something we should keep in mind when defining the functions. -- Regards, Ricardo From magnus@solvang.net Wed Mar 14 15:22:42 2001 From: magnus@solvang.net (Magnus Solvang) Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 16:22:42 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Problems with "make install" Message-ID: <20010314162242.N31798@boss.office.skiinfo.no> I'm trying to setup Mailman on a Linux machine, and have installed Python 1.6.1 for this purpose. In other words, I'm new to both. Anyway, "configure" (and "make") looks good, but "make install" fails. Can anybody guide me through this problem? I have searched for clues via google.com, but have not come up with anything similar (at least not in this part of the process). I guess this is a problem with my Python-installation, but I would appreciate any hints on how to fix this. - M mailman-2.0.1]$ export PYTHONPATH=/usr/local/lib/python1.6 mailman-2.0.1]$ ./configure --with-python=/usr/local/bin/python1.6 \ --with-mail-uid=mailman --with-cgi-uid=nobody \ --with-python=/usr/local/bin/python1.6 [...] mailman-2.0.1]# make install [...] Listing /home/mailman/Mailman/pythonlib ... Compiling /home/mailman/Mailman/pythonlib/StringIO.py ... Compiling /home/mailman/Mailman/pythonlib/__init__.py ... Compiling /home/mailman/Mailman/pythonlib/cgi.py ... Compiling /home/mailman/Mailman/pythonlib/nntplib.py ... Compiling /home/mailman/Mailman/pythonlib/rfc822.py ... Compiling /home/mailman/Mailman/pythonlib/smtplib.py ... Compiling /home/mailman/Mailman/pythonlib/tempfile.py ... Compiling /home/mailman/Mailman/versions.py ... Traceback (innermost last): File "bin/update", line 25, in ? import os File "/usr/local/lib/python1.6/os.py", line 38, in ? import posixpath File "/usr/local/lib/python1.6/posixpath.py", line 319 _varprog = re.compile(r'\$(\w+|\{[^}]*\})') ^ SyntaxError: invalid syntax From chris@greatbridge.com Wed Mar 14 15:42:39 2001 From: chris@greatbridge.com (Chris Ryan) Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 10:42:39 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] DRAFT Datasource Interface v0.1 References: <3AAE680E.D935757B@greatbridge.com> <20010314081025.A14725@rix.rixhq.nu> Message-ID: <3AAF916F.DB4430EC@greatbridge.com> Comments within: Ricardo Kustner wrote: > > Hi, > > First of all, a disclaimer :) I'm not a core mailman developer but > I'm interested in helping out with this and I (think I) know a bit about the > internal workings as I've been following mailman development for a while now... > > On Tue, Mar 13, 2001 at 01:33:50PM -0500, Chris Ryan wrote: > > http://www.zope.org/Members/bwarsaw/MailmanDesignNotes/CentralizedUserDatabase > > at Ricardo's sugestion so that you may all read it over and > > comment/add/substract ?delete? :). > > Looks great ! I'd also suggest using ZWiki's feature to create subpages and/or > subsections on the same page; If we get one long page with information > it could get a bit hard to follow. For example you could divide it into > the phases you wrote about earlier. > I'm just now starting to use the ZWiki source so I must apologize for the lack of organizational zest. I will play around with it some later and see about breaking it up. > > Once we get something that is more or less acceptable my next step will > > be to impliment the interface to use the existing method of data > > storage. Then I would start modifying the code to use the interface. > > Once I've got the interface implimented we should have a concreate > > definition and anyone should be able to write a datasource driver using > > the interface to access what ever source they wish to use. > That's were I definately want to step in... I could work on a mysql driver. > This would be great. I will be working on PostgreSQL myself. Perhaps the two of us could design a table structure that will work for both PostgreSQL and MySQL allowing users to switch easier between the two. > Anyway, I also wanted to comment a bit on the draft you wrote: > - I see you created seperate functions for a lot of related things, > like getting a list of subscribers and digest subscribers, or both. Is there > a specific reason for that? To me it looks like it might generate some > duplicated code... what are you thoughts on how to handle code re-use? > same goes for getting the flags for a member. Maybe it's something you > already thought about, but I just wanted to point it out just to be sure. Let me start by saying that originally I had several member function for each option before I consolidated them into overloaded methods. I know there are a few that I missed or for a lack of understanding chose to ignore. For instances such as listMembers(), listNormalMembers() and listDigestMembers() I was trying to provide simple methods to accessing the data. As for the member flag methods I chose to do those as separate methods to allow flexibility (for the driver developer) and ease of use (to the interface user). I am open to any suggestions that simplify the overall interface and still allows Mailman to perform it's functions. To Specifically address the code reuse aspect. My goal in this design is to provide a clean interface for mailman to use. It would be up to the developer to implement this interface in the most code efficient manner. > - At some points mailman might need to find a specific list of > subscribers... though it's possible to load the entire list into memory > with listMembers() and work on that with python code, I think it would be nice for > peformance reasons to be able to use sql queries in the backend so maybe that's > something we should keep in mind when defining the functions. The only problem with this is it is possible that not all implementations will store data in the same manner which makes it difficult to add in such methods. That is why I tried to define all the methods so that they each perform specific tasks with specific results. Probably the best thing to do in a situation like this is to determine the specific need of Mailman then add a method into the interface that performs the desired task. Example: Task: find all users on a list that are in a domain Result: a list of users by key that match a domain Definition: MemberData.listMemebersInDomain(domain) It would be up to the Interface driver developer to determine how this gets done. I am not opposed to adding such methods if they are used, especially to speed up performance. Chris Ryan chris@greatbridge.com From haroldp@sierraweb.com Wed Mar 14 18:04:47 2001 From: haroldp@sierraweb.com (Harold Paulson) Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 10:04:47 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] PHP wrappers? In-Reply-To: <3AAE6544.33B88A20@greatbridge.com> References: <3AAE6544.33B88A20@greatbridge.com> Message-ID: Good suggestions, >You may want to check for things such as PATH information as it could be >that when executing the script it can't find python executable. One $PATH did include the directory where the python bin was stored, and actually specifying a full path like: `/usr/local/bin/python /home/mailman/bin/list_lists` still doesn't give me any output. >possible idea is try executing your command in a fasion like: > > system("myprogram arg1 arg2 2>&1"); > >This may help by showing any output that gets sent to stderr on stdout. Even better suggestion! This gives me: Traceback (most recent call last): File "/usr/local/mailman/bin/list_lists", line 108, in ? main() File "/usr/local/mailman/bin/list_lists", line 86, in main mlist = MailList.MailList(n, lock=0) File "../Mailman/MailList.py", line 79, in __init__ File "../Mailman/MailList.py", line 879, in Load File "../Mailman/MailList.py", line 856, in __load IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied: '/usr/local/mailman/lists/myfirstlist/config.db' Which makes sense. The config.db file is 660 root.mailman. I guess that is why all the mailman CGIs run with setgid mailman. I guess that leaves me at an impasse. I probably shouldn't give the web server elevated permissions for my little hacks. Thanks for your help in any case. - H >Chris Ryan >chris@greatbridge.com > >Harold Paulson wrote: >> >> Hey, >> >> I was trying to wrap several of the Mailman CLI tools (list_lists and >> such) in a little PHP so I could easily integrate them into a larger >> web site. Using PHP's System() function and the backtick operator to >> exec the Mailman tools never seems to result in any output, but no >> errors either. However, I can drop a script of my own (a little Perl >> hack or whatever) in the ~mailman/bin directory with the same >> ownership and permissions, and it seems to exec just fine. >> >> Any idea what I'm overlooking? >> >> - H >> >> -- >> >> Harold Paulson Sierra Web Design >> haroldp@sierraweb.com http://www.sierraweb.com >> VOICE: 775.833.9500 FAX: 810.314.1517 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Mailman-Developers mailing list >> Mailman-Developers@python.org >> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers -- Harold Paulson Sierra Web Design haroldp@sierraweb.com http://www.sierraweb.com VOICE: 775.833.9500 FAX: 810.314.1517 From jarrell@vt.edu Wed Mar 14 20:08:12 2001 From: jarrell@vt.edu (Ron Jarrell) Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 15:08:12 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] PHP wrappers? In-Reply-To: References: <3AAE6544.33B88A20@greatbridge.com> <3AAE6544.33B88A20@greatbridge.com> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20010314150725.02e33640@vtserf.cc.vt.edu> At 10:04 AM 3/14/01 -0800, Harold Paulson wrote: >IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied: '/usr/local/mailman/lists/myfirstlist/config.db' > >Which makes sense. The config.db file is 660 root.mailman. I guess that is why all the mailman CGIs run with setgid mailman. I guess that leaves me at an impasse. I probably shouldn't give the web server elevated permissions for my little hacks. Add your www user to the mailman group... From dan.mick@west.sun.com Wed Mar 14 21:26:43 2001 From: dan.mick@west.sun.com (Dan Mick) Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 13:26:43 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Wiki maintenance: bad link Message-ID: <3AAFE213.4FDA4FF@west.sun.com> Browsing the Wiki for the first time in a while, I see there's content there. I was interested in Future of Pipermail, Bill Bumgarner's patch; so I looked at the patch and was mystified; then I tried to go to the description and it was a bad link. Seeing no "comments/bugs to this mailto link" link on the page: http://www.zope.org/Members/bwarsaw/MailmanDesignNotes/FutureOfPipermail and no "owner" listed on the page above it: http://www.zope.org/Members/bwarsaw/MailmanDesignNotes/RecentChanges ...I appeal here for help. From thomas@xs4all.net Thu Mar 15 09:27:30 2001 From: thomas@xs4all.net (Thomas Wouters) Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 10:27:30 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] PHP wrappers? In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.20010314150725.02e33640@vtserf.cc.vt.edu>; from jarrell@vt.edu on Wed, Mar 14, 2001 at 03:08:12PM -0500 References: <3AAE6544.33B88A20@greatbridge.com> <3AAE6544.33B88A20@greatbridge.com> <5.0.2.1.2.20010314150725.02e33640@vtserf.cc.vt.edu> Message-ID: <20010315102729.G404@xs4all.nl> On Wed, Mar 14, 2001 at 03:08:12PM -0500, Ron Jarrell wrote: > At 10:04 AM 3/14/01 -0800, Harold Paulson wrote: > > >IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied: '/usr/local/mailman/lists/myfirstlist/config.db' > > > >Which makes sense. The config.db file is 660 root.mailman. I guess that is why all the mailman CGIs run with setgid mailman. I guess that leaves me at an impasse. I probably shouldn't give the web server elevated permissions for my little hacks. > Add your www user to the mailman group... You should *not* do that. That gives the normal webserver way too much permissions. You should just use a setuid mailman wrapper script that does caller-checking to see if it's called correctly, by the right user, and with 'safe' values. -- Thomas Wouters Hi! I'm a .signature virus! copy me into your .signature file to help me spread! From thomas@xs4all.net Thu Mar 15 09:32:38 2001 From: thomas@xs4all.net (Thomas Wouters) Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 10:32:38 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] mailman and the web In-Reply-To: <4.2.2.20010313091845.00d26e30@hollyjerry.org>; from jerry@hollyjerry.org on Tue, Mar 13, 2001 at 09:23:28AM -0800 References: <4.2.2.20010312193934.00d10170@hollyjerry.org> <3AAE55F0.6A8A2F65@greatbridge.com> <4.2.2.20010313091845.00d26e30@hollyjerry.org> Message-ID: <20010315103238.H404@xs4all.nl> On Tue, Mar 13, 2001 at 09:23:28AM -0800, Jerry Asher wrote: > When you write, > >Phase 3: Develop Php front-end for Archives/Admin utils > That makes me curious. I know Tcl (and C, LISP, etc.) but not Python or > PHP. One reason for undertaking this project was to give me something > "real" to focus on while learning Python. My understanding was that Python > and PHP are somewhat competing technologies. Mailman is a Python tool > right? What makes you choose Php for front-end development? PHP and Python aren't as competing with each other as Python and Tcl are :-) Seriously, though, I personally detest PHP. I've done a fair lot in it, and I hate it for a number of reasons, one of the more important ones being security (or lack thereof.) Python is a much, much easier language to program in, even for Web/CGI stuff, and if you are going to execute Python in the back anyway, it's not that much faster. -- Thomas Wouters Hi! I'm a .signature virus! copy me into your .signature file to help me spread! From magnus@solvang.net Thu Mar 15 09:34:06 2001 From: magnus@solvang.net (Magnus Solvang) Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 10:34:06 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Problems with "make install" In-Reply-To: <3AAFE08D.6614E6A8@west.sun.com>; from dan.mick@west.sun.com on ons, mar 14, 2001 at 01:20:13 -0800 References: <20010314162242.N31798@boss.office.skiinfo.no> <3AAFE08D.6614E6A8@west.sun.com> Message-ID: <20010315103406.E7153@boss.office.skiinfo.no> Someone wrote in email: | Dunno. I've used Python 1.5.2 and Python 2.0, and not seen this; | maybe 1.6.1 was broken. | | Python itself is pretty easy to build from source. I did build Python from source just before installing Mailman, and the installation was flawless. The machine in question is an old Red Hat installation, with several old versions of Python on it, but as long as I set the PYTHONPATH to the new version and set --with-python to point at the new python-binary, this should be enough, right? - M (who hopes he can move to mailman-users soon :) From thomas@xs4all.net Thu Mar 15 09:53:48 2001 From: thomas@xs4all.net (Thomas Wouters) Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 10:53:48 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Here's a little issue with the news gatewaying: If the n In-Reply-To: <15022.65424.707104.510698@anthem.wooz.org>; from barry@digicool.com on Wed, Mar 14, 2001 at 12:20:16AM -0500 References: <318196@bbs.pixel.citadel.org> <15022.39292.637113.840278@anthem.wooz.org> <20010313175430.51812@scfn.thpl.lib.fl.us> <15022.44052.277026.853903@anthem.wooz.org> <20010313225457.39716@scfn.thpl.lib.fl.us> <15022.65424.707104.510698@anthem.wooz.org> Message-ID: <20010315105347.I404@xs4all.nl> On Wed, Mar 14, 2001 at 12:20:16AM -0500, Barry A. Warsaw wrote: > As Thomas can tell you, I'm pretty anal about check-in messages, so when > in doubt, cvs log is your best friend. :) 'Anal' is the right word! I transgressed once, I'll be sure to never do it again :) > JRA> Well, the code base is pretty clean looking, at > JRA> least the parts I've gotten into, even if my understanding of > JRA> python is not. Note that Python is the easiest langauge in the world. Did you read the tutorial yet ? If you're already familiar with programming in some other language, it's easy to get into, and will teach you everything about the language itself. Most of the rest you'll want to learn eventually is library docs, but you can browse those on an as-needed basis. > JRA> Any internals doco written yet? Is their a second tier of > JRA> hackers following the list? > Thomas? :) I guess I count as a second tier :) I haven't written any documentation yet, because most of the code is well commented, or easy to follow. (But then again, Barry and I share some common ground there, both being python developers. I might just be used to his (possibly adopted) code style :) If I had time, I could probably write up some documentation... but if I had time, I could fix a ton of bugs and misfeatures, too ;-P > JRA> And will Python 2 finally get around to showing not only the > JRA> call but the *values* in tracebacks? :-) > Oh man, you should have seen Ka-Ping Yee's cgi driver thingie. You can see Dr. Mad Ping's cgitb.py module in action at http://www.lfw.org/python. There's been talk (at a lunchtable at IPC9, so it is very likely to happen ;) about adding a plaintext version to the std. Python library for use with normal scripts. I'm definately for it :) -- Thomas Wouters Hi! I'm a .signature virus! copy me into your .signature file to help me spread! From thomas@xs4all.net Thu Mar 15 10:02:15 2001 From: thomas@xs4all.net (Thomas Wouters) Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 11:02:15 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Problems with "make install" In-Reply-To: <20010314162242.N31798@boss.office.skiinfo.no>; from magnus@solvang.net on Wed, Mar 14, 2001 at 04:22:42PM +0100 References: <20010314162242.N31798@boss.office.skiinfo.no> Message-ID: <20010315110215.K404@xs4all.nl> On Wed, Mar 14, 2001 at 04:22:42PM +0100, Magnus Solvang wrote: > I'm trying to setup Mailman on a Linux machine, and have installed > Python 1.6.1 for this purpose. In other words, I'm new to both. > Anyway, "configure" (and "make") looks good, but "make install" > fails. Why did you take 1.6.1, and not 2.0, btw ? 2.0 contains a lot of bugfixes to 1.6. I don't *know* that it fixes this problem, but it might :) > Can anybody guide me through this problem? I have searched for clues > via google.com, but have not come up with anything similar (at least > not in this part of the process). > I guess this is a problem with my Python-installation, but I would > appreciate any hints on how to fix this. It looks like a problem with the python installation... What did you set PYTHONPATH to ? What version does 'python' report when you start it up ? It *looks* like you started a very old version of python (one that doesn't have raw string support) with a PYTHONPATH that points to the 1.6 library tree. Can you check that PYTHON is set to the right python binary in the Makefile ? > mailman-2.0.1]$ export PYTHONPATH=/usr/local/lib/python1.6 > mailman-2.0.1]$ ./configure --with-python=/usr/local/bin/python1.6 \ > --with-mail-uid=mailman --with-cgi-uid=nobody \ > --with-python=/usr/local/bin/python1.6 > [...] > > mailman-2.0.1]# make install > [...] > Listing /home/mailman/Mailman/pythonlib ... > Compiling /home/mailman/Mailman/versions.py ... > Traceback (innermost last): > File "bin/update", line 25, in ? > import os > File "/usr/local/lib/python1.6/os.py", line 38, in ? > import posixpath > File "/usr/local/lib/python1.6/posixpath.py", line 319 > _varprog = re.compile(r'\$(\w+|\{[^}]*\})') > ^ > SyntaxError: invalid syntax -- Thomas Wouters Hi! I'm a .signature virus! copy me into your .signature file to help me spread! From magnus@skiinfo.no Thu Mar 15 10:54:14 2001 From: magnus@skiinfo.no (Magnus Solvang) Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 11:54:14 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Problems with "make install" (fixed) In-Reply-To: <20010315103406.E7153@boss.office.skiinfo.no>; from magnus@solvang.net on tor, mar 15, 2001 at 10:34:06 +0100 References: <20010314162242.N31798@boss.office.skiinfo.no> <3AAFE08D.6614E6A8@west.sun.com> <20010315103406.E7153@boss.office.skiinfo.no> Message-ID: <20010315115414.L7153@boss.office.skiinfo.no> Quoting Magnus Solvang (magnus@solvang.net): [...] | | Dunno. I've used Python 1.5.2 and Python 2.0, and not seen this; | | maybe 1.6.1 was broken. | | | | Python itself is pretty easy to build from source. | | I did build Python from source just before installing Mailman, and | the installation was flawless. [...] Sorry about replying to my own post, but I just wanted to say that I managed to compile Mailman with Python 2.0, so I'll be off your back now. Thanks for the help! :) - M From chris@greatbridge.com Thu Mar 15 14:07:16 2001 From: chris@greatbridge.com (Chris Ryan) Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 09:07:16 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Mailman + DB: Snag Message-ID: <3AB0CC94.A798EDF1@greatbridge.com> As a test I implemented a basic interface driver with mailman that loaded the config.db and implemented the internalName() and realName() methods. Everything worked fine which was good except one thing. The way the admin.py update the attributes does not work with the interface driver. I'm trying to find a reasonable solution that would allow the current code to work as it stands without having to overhaul the entire web interface update code. One possible solution that I can think of is to replace the getattr() setattr() methods that are currently used with a similar function that would instead use a switched case on the variable to know which attribute the get/set. for example: Current method: property = 'real_name' value = getattr(mlist,property,'some default') setattr(mlist,property, value) New method (concept): property = 'real_name' value = mlist.getProperty(property,'some default') mlist.setProperty(property, value) def MailList.getProperty(self, property, default=None) if property == 'real_name': return self.list_data.realName() elif property == '...': elif property == '...': else: if default: return default else: raise AttributeError I'll have to look through the python documentation to see if there is a way to dynamically call a method as that would further simplify the above. Does this sound reasonable? Or is there a better way to deal with this problem? Chris Ryan chris@greatbridge.org From jra@baylink.com Thu Mar 15 16:29:26 2001 From: jra@baylink.com (Jay R. Ashworth) Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 11:29:26 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Here's a little issue with the news gatewaying: If the n In-Reply-To: <20010315105347.I404@xs4all.nl>; from Thomas Wouters on Thu, Mar 15, 2001 at 10:53:48AM +0100 References: <318196@bbs.pixel.citadel.org> <15022.39292.637113.840278@anthem.wooz.org> <20010313175430.51812@scfn.thpl.lib.fl.us> <15022.44052.277026.853903@anthem.wooz.org> <20010313225457.39716@scfn.thpl.lib.fl.us> <15022.65424.707104.510698@anthem.wooz.org> <20010315105347.I404@xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <20010315112926.00539@scfn.thpl.lib.fl.us> On Thu, Mar 15, 2001 at 10:53:48AM +0100, Thomas Wouters wrote: > > JRA> Well, the code base is pretty clean looking, at > > JRA> least the parts I've gotten into, even if my understanding of > > JRA> python is not. > > Note that Python is the easiest langauge in the world. Did you read the > tutorial yet ? If you're already familiar with programming in some other > language, it's easy to get into, and will teach you everything about the > language itself. Most of the rest you'll want to learn eventually is library > docs, but you can browse those on an as-needed basis. Well, you can code python like C, or you can code it like python, just like perl 5. If it's coded like C, which much of this package is, I can follow it. > > JRA> Any internals doco written yet? Is their a second tier of > > JRA> hackers following the list? > > Thomas? :) > I guess I count as a second tier :) I haven't written any documentation yet, > because most of the code is well commented, or easy to follow. (But then > again, Barry and I share some common ground there, both being python > developers. I might just be used to his (possibly adopted) code style :) > If I had time, I could probably write up some documentation... but if I had > time, I could fix a ton of bugs and misfeatures, too ;-P Noted. Well, I'll be digging anyway; I'll drop breadcrumbs. > > JRA> And will Python 2 finally get around to showing not only the > > JRA> call but the *values* in tracebacks? :-) > > > Oh man, you should have seen Ka-Ping Yee's cgi driver thingie. > > You can see Dr. Mad Ping's cgitb.py module in action at > http://www.lfw.org/python. There's been talk (at a lunchtable at IPC9, so it > is very likely to happen ;) about adding a plaintext version to the std. > Python library for use with normal scripts. I'm definately for it :) Cool. That Would Be Good. Cheers, -- jra -- Jay R. Ashworth jra@baylink.com Member of the Technical Staff Baylink The Suncoast Freenet The Things I Think Tampa Bay, Florida http://baylink.pitas.com +1 727 804 5015 From thomas@xs4all.net Thu Mar 15 23:16:58 2001 From: thomas@xs4all.net (Thomas Wouters) Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 00:16:58 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Here's a little issue with the news gatewaying: If the n In-Reply-To: <20010315112926.00539@scfn.thpl.lib.fl.us>; from jra@baylink.com on Thu, Mar 15, 2001 at 11:29:26AM -0500 References: <318196@bbs.pixel.citadel.org> <15022.39292.637113.840278@anthem.wooz.org> <20010313175430.51812@scfn.thpl.lib.fl.us> <15022.44052.277026.853903@anthem.wooz.org> <20010313225457.39716@scfn.thpl.lib.fl.us> <15022.65424.707104.510698@anthem.wooz.org> <20010315105347.I404@xs4all.nl> <20010315112926.00539@scfn.thpl.lib.fl.us> Message-ID: <20010316001658.E29286@xs4all.nl> [ Apologies for the off-topicness, but Python can't be *totally* off topic, not on this mailinglist, can it ? :) ] On Thu, Mar 15, 2001 at 11:29:26AM -0500, Jay R. Ashworth wrote: > > Note that Python is the easiest langauge in the world. Did you read the > > tutorial yet ? If you're already familiar with programming in some other > > language, it's easy to get into, and will teach you everything about the > > language itself. Most of the rest you'll want to learn eventually is library > > docs, but you can browse those on an as-needed basis. > Well, you can code python like C, or you can code it like python, just > like perl 5. If it's coded like C, which much of this package is, I > can follow it. Actually, Mailman is written in pretty standard Python. Pipermail is probably an example of the word's worst Python code, but the rest is pretty simple :) It might reflect a bit of C style because Barry does a fair bit of C coding, but Barry also used to do a lot of Java coding (or pretend to, anyway, on JPython :) so I'm not sure if that's true. Python isn't like Perl, you can't write it in *that* many different ways :) Usually just in one, even. Even pipermail is fairly standard python code, if you refactor some of the functions and fix the whitespace usage. -- Thomas Wouters Hi! I'm a .signature virus! copy me into your .signature file to help me spread! From jra@baylink.com Fri Mar 16 03:10:14 2001 From: jra@baylink.com (Jay R. Ashworth) Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 22:10:14 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Here's a little issue with the news gatewaying: If the n In-Reply-To: <20010316001658.E29286@xs4all.nl>; from Thomas Wouters on Fri, Mar 16, 2001 at 12:16:58AM +0100 References: <318196@bbs.pixel.citadel.org> <15022.39292.637113.840278@anthem.wooz.org> <20010313175430.51812@scfn.thpl.lib.fl.us> <15022.44052.277026.853903@anthem.wooz.org> <20010313225457.39716@scfn.thpl.lib.fl.us> <15022.65424.707104.510698@anthem.wooz.org> <20010315105347.I404@xs4all.nl> <20010315112926.00539@scfn.thpl.lib.fl.us> <20010316001658.E29286@xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <20010315221014.38411@scfn.thpl.lib.fl.us> On Fri, Mar 16, 2001 at 12:16:58AM +0100, Thomas Wouters wrote: > [ Apologies for the off-topicness, but Python can't be *totally* off topic, > not on this mailinglist, can it ? :) ] I shouldn't think so... and it's not like this list has been swamped with traffic... I *still* haven't gotten an answer to *my* first question, asked last Friday... :-} > On Thu, Mar 15, 2001 at 11:29:26AM -0500, Jay R. Ashworth wrote: > > > Note that Python is the easiest langauge in the world. Did > > > you read the tutorial yet ? If you're already familiar with > > > programming in some other language, it's easy to get into, and > > > will teach you everything about the language itself. Most of the > > > rest you'll want to learn eventually is library docs, but you can > > > browse those on an as-needed basis. > > Well, you can code python like C, or you can code it like python, just > > like perl 5. If it's coded like C, which much of this package is, I > > can follow it. > > Actually, Mailman is written in pretty standard Python. Pipermail is > probably an example of the word's worst Python code, but the rest is > pretty simple :) It might reflect a bit of C style because Barry does > a fair bit of C coding, but Barry also used to do a lot of Java coding > (or pretend to, anyway, on JPython :) so I'm not sure if that's true. > Python isn't like Perl, you can't write it in *that* many different > ways :) Well, no, but you can swim in the Object Orientation, or you can tiptoe through it, and the code I've looked at doesn't look to horribly deep to me. Except make_whatever in Utils; how do you get a hard newline in that damned routine? The template stuff is one of the weak spots in system operator documentation... and the templates could us a touch of work, too -- no offence to whomever's writing that is... > Hi! I'm a .signature virus! copy me into your .signature file to help > me spread! I like the Amish virus better... Cheers, -- jra -- Jay R. Ashworth jra@baylink.com Member of the Technical Staff Baylink The Suncoast Freenet The Things I Think Tampa Bay, Florida http://baylink.pitas.com +1 727 804 5015 From barry@digicool.com Fri Mar 16 04:59:59 2001 From: barry@digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw) Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 23:59:59 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Here's a little issue with the news gatewaying: If the n References: <318196@bbs.pixel.citadel.org> <15022.39292.637113.840278@anthem.wooz.org> <20010313175430.51812@scfn.thpl.lib.fl.us> <15022.44052.277026.853903@anthem.wooz.org> <20010313225457.39716@scfn.thpl.lib.fl.us> <15022.65424.707104.510698@anthem.wooz.org> <20010315105347.I404@xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <15025.40399.330245.146192@anthem.wooz.org> >>>>> "TW" == Thomas Wouters writes: TW> 'Anal' is the right word! I transgressed once, I'll be sure to TW> never do it again :) >> JRA> Any internals doco written yet? Is their a second tier of >> JRA> hackers following the list? >> Thomas? :) TW> I guess I count as a second tier :) Yeah, but it'll only take you a couple of days to reach the top tier and pass us all, if you haven't already. (Bloating Thomas's head so he'll take on the rewrite of the archiver, heh, heh. :) TW> I might just be used to his (possibly adopted) code style :) All (good) Python coding styles derive from Guido's, naturally, and the beautify of Python is that there isn't a /whole/ lot of room for deviation (of any consequence). Does this stiffle creativity in Python programmers? Absolutely not, IMO. What it does is enforce a structure so that the creativity blossoms in the important dimensions. I used to maintain the C++ editing mode for Emacs, and the depths of, er, creativity in coding styles there was obnoxious. Guido recognized that code is read orders of magnitude more often than it is written, and Python encourages a community standard so that almost everyone can read almost everyone else's code. It's a wonderful breath of fresh air because Python becomes like a hammer in your hands -- almost invisible, an extension of your body. The tool disappears and you are left with just the task at hand. Still, I have my own minor deviations from Guido's style, and I think it's important to maintain consistency within a module, and within an application. That's why != is better than <> in the standard library, but not in Mailman code. :) [Aside: A fun thing to do for IPC 10 would be to grab representative code samples from a wide range of prolific Python program and ask Guido to "name that hacker". He'd have no problem with mine, I'm __sure. :) ] TW> [ Apologies for the off-topicness, but Python can't be TW> *totally* off topic, not on this mailinglist, can it ? :) ] Naw, plus it's fun to talk about our passions, and Python definitely is one of mine (it better be or I guess I'd have to start looking for a new job). Plus, I suspect there's a lot of folks on this list that aren't (yet :) Python programmers, so explaining why we love it can't hurt. TW> It might reflect a bit of C style because Barry does a fair TW> bit of C coding And in former lives, such dinosauric languages as C++, ObjC, FORTH, Perl, Tcl, Smalltalk, assembly, SNOBOL, Pascal, PL1, BASIC, FORTRAN, blah, blah, blah. :) TW> but Barry also used to do a lot of Java coding (or pretend to, TW> anyway, on JPython :) Funny guy, that Thomas. TW> so I'm not sure if that's true. Python isn't like Perl, you TW> can't write it in *that* many different ways :) TW> Usually just in one, even. Even pipermail is fairly standard TW> python code, if you refactor some of the functions and fix the TW> whitespace usage. Ah ha! Now you've done it. This is a clear offer from you to rewrite Pipermail. Nope, you can't back out now. We all heard it. :) i'll-even-give-you-a-week-ly y'rs, -Barry From barry@digicool.com Fri Mar 16 05:21:34 2001 From: barry@digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw) Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 00:21:34 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Here's a little issue with the news gatewaying: If the n References: <318196@bbs.pixel.citadel.org> <15022.39292.637113.840278@anthem.wooz.org> <20010313175430.51812@scfn.thpl.lib.fl.us> <15022.44052.277026.853903@anthem.wooz.org> <20010313225457.39716@scfn.thpl.lib.fl.us> <15022.65424.707104.510698@anthem.wooz.org> <20010315105347.I404@xs4all.nl> <20010315112926.00539@scfn.thpl.lib.fl.us> <20010316001658.E29286@xs4all.nl> <20010315221014.38411@scfn.thpl.lib.fl.us> Message-ID: <15025.41694.886911.576525@anthem.wooz.org> >>>>> "JRA" == Jay R Ashworth writes: JRA> I shouldn't think so... and it's not like this list has been JRA> swamped with traffic... I *still* haven't gotten an answer to JRA> *my* first question, asked last Friday... :-} Right at the tail end of IPC9, so that's not too surprising. Do you mean JRA> The doco says the site password will work anywhere... but it JRA> doesn't seem to work as the "old password" for changing a JRA> list password, and I can't find anywhere *else* to do that JRA> either. Am I missing something, or is that really a bug? JRA> I'm gonna check Jitterbug for that, too, during my search. I definitely can't reproduce this in 2.0.3 or 2.1. Works for me. Are you sure you've got the crypt module installed in your Python executable? Or was it [w.r.t. max chunks per day hack] JRA> Will this approach cause locking problems, etc? It worries me because you're basically freezing all mail delivery on all lists for some fraction of an entire day. So while people will still be able to hit the cgi for this list (since the list is unlocked), no mail will flow through the system at all while you're in that sleep(). Note that while SMTPDirect for the actual mail delivery task can be configured to run multiple threads, qrunner itself is single threaded, and the message pipeline will block at SMTPDirect until it's done with its work. Your qrunner lock could be broken during that time. Qrunner's lock by default is 10 hours, so say you only deliver one chunk per day. 10 hours from now cron will start another qrunner, the lock will get broken, and now you've got two qrunners stomping on each others toes. Badness. [Aside: your bare "except:" isn't good Pythonic form. You should adorn that except with the most specific exception you expect to get. In this case AttributeError. Bare excepts should be reserved for the (very) rare case of framework wrappers, a la scripts/driver.] A slightly different approach to take would be, if you exceed your max chunks per day threshold, break out of the deliver() function, setting the refused dictionary to contain all the recipients in chunks that are deferred. Set the error code to something in the 400 range (to indicate a temporary failure), and this will cause a SomeRecipientsFailed exception to be signaled to the delivery pipeline. Then you should add a timestamp to the msgdata for when you processed this chunk and at the top of SMTPDirect.process(), simply return if the timestamp is less than your delay period. Without testing it, that approach (or something like it) ought to work better. I'd also suggest adding this as a feature request to the SourceForge feature request tracker, so it doesn't get lost. Cheers, -Barry From barry@digicool.com Fri Mar 16 05:29:08 2001 From: barry@digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw) Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 00:29:08 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Here's a little issue with the news gatewaying: If the n References: <318196@bbs.pixel.citadel.org> <15022.39292.637113.840278@anthem.wooz.org> <20010313175430.51812@scfn.thpl.lib.fl.us> <15022.44052.277026.853903@anthem.wooz.org> <20010313225457.39716@scfn.thpl.lib.fl.us> <15022.65424.707104.510698@anthem.wooz.org> <20010315105347.I404@xs4all.nl> <20010315112926.00539@scfn.thpl.lib.fl.us> <20010316001658.E29286@xs4all.nl> <20010315221014.38411@scfn.thpl.lib.fl.us> Message-ID: <15025.42148.377219.468002@anthem.wooz.org> >>>>> "JRA" == Jay R Ashworth writes: JRA> Well, no, but you can swim in the Object Orientation, or you JRA> can tiptoe through it, and the code I've looked at doesn't JRA> look to horribly deep to me. Python's very cool that way. It makes OOP about as simple as it can possibly be. In fact, I think Python would make a wonderful first or OOP teaching language. Jeez, at least much better than C++ or Java. JRA> Except make_whatever in Utils; how do you get a hard newline JRA> in that damned routine? You mean Utils.maketext()? You could set raw=1 which says not to pass the text to wrap(), and then your template would have to be properly wrapped already (if it's a plaintext file), or you'd include

                  's and
                  's if it's html. The rules for wrap() are pretty simple. Paragraphs are always filled unless the line begins with whitespace. Blank lines separate paragraphs. That's it. But I'll admit that wrap() is a bear of an algorithm, and I fear, too fragile to muck with. Still it does the job. Usable, human-friendly "structured" plaintext is a /hard/ problem, as anybody who's played with Wiki's StructuredText stuff will attest too. JRA> The template stuff is one of the weak spots in system JRA> operator documentation... and the templates could us a touch JRA> of work, too -- no offence to whomever's writing that is... I completely agree. -Barry From jra@baylink.com Fri Mar 16 05:38:26 2001 From: jra@baylink.com (Jay R. Ashworth) Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 00:38:26 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Here's a little issue with the news gatewaying: If the n In-Reply-To: <15025.41694.886911.576525@anthem.wooz.org>; from "Barry A. Warsaw" on Fri, Mar 16, 2001 at 12:21:34AM -0500 References: <15022.39292.637113.840278@anthem.wooz.org> <20010313175430.51812@scfn.thpl.lib.fl.us> <15022.44052.277026.853903@anthem.wooz.org> <20010313225457.39716@scfn.thpl.lib.fl.us> <15022.65424.707104.510698@anthem.wooz.org> <20010315105347.I404@xs4all.nl> <20010315112926.00539@scfn.thpl.lib.fl.us> <20010316001658.E29286@xs4all.nl> <20010315221014.38411@scfn.thpl.lib.fl.us> <15025.41694.886911.576525@anthem.wooz.org> Message-ID: <20010316003826.02131@scfn.thpl.lib.fl.us> On Fri, Mar 16, 2001 at 12:21:34AM -0500, Barry A. Warsaw wrote: > >>>>> "JRA" == Jay R Ashworth writes: > JRA> I shouldn't think so... and it's not like this list has been > JRA> swamped with traffic... I *still* haven't gotten an answer to > JRA> *my* first question, asked last Friday... :-} > > Right at the tail end of IPC9, so that's not too surprising. Do you > mean Figured. > JRA> The doco says the site password will work anywhere... but it > JRA> doesn't seem to work as the "old password" for changing a > JRA> list password, and I can't find anywhere *else* to do that > JRA> either. Am I missing something, or is that really a bug? > JRA> I'm gonna check Jitterbug for that, too, during my search. > > I definitely can't reproduce this in 2.0.3 or 2.1. Works for me. Are > you sure you've got the crypt module installed in your Python > executable? Nope. I'll check, but while I can *get into8 the list using the site password, *using it as the old password to set a new one* is rejected. *Using the list password* as the old one, however, appears to work. But no, I meant... > Or was it > [w.r.t. max chunks per day hack] > JRA> Will this approach cause locking problems, etc? > > It worries me because you're basically freezing all mail delivery on > all lists for some fraction of an entire day. So while people will > still be able to hit the cgi for this list (since the list is > unlocked), no mail will flow through the system at all while you're in > that sleep(). Note that while SMTPDirect for the actual mail delivery > task can be configured to run multiple threads, qrunner itself is > single threaded, and the message pipeline will block at SMTPDirect > until it's done with its work. SMTPDirect is called from underneath qrunnner? Oh. > Your qrunner lock could be broken during that time. Qrunner's lock by > default is 10 hours, so say you only deliver one chunk per day. 10 > hours from now cron will start another qrunner, the lock will get > broken, and now you've got two qrunners stomping on each others toes. > Badness. Indeed. At what level would it be best to try and fix this? It's actually only one part of "braodcast list handling", but it's probably the most important. > [Aside: your bare "except:" isn't good Pythonic form. You should > adorn that except with the most specific exception you expect to > get. In this case AttributeError. Bare excepts should be reserved > for the (very) rare case of framework wrappers, a la scripts/driver.] Well, yeah, but the try is only 4 lines long, fercrissake... ;-) > A slightly different approach to take would be, if you exceed your max > chunks per day threshold, break out of the deliver() function, setting > the refused dictionary to contain all the recipients in chunks that > are deferred. Set the error code to something in the 400 range (to > indicate a temporary failure), and this will cause a > SomeRecipientsFailed exception to be signaled to the delivery > pipeline. Yeah, but *that* required that I understand all kinds of theory of operation that I, well, don't. :-) And it's inelegant, anyway. Is this the exposing of an architectural deficiency in this part of the system? :-) > Without testing it, that approach (or something like it) ought to work > better. > > I'd also suggest adding this as a feature request to the SourceForge > feature request tracker, so it doesn't get lost. Noted. I'll try to figure out what other requirements using it this way engenders, and make it one big request. Is there at least a call-tree somewhere? Or, alternatively, some code I can run against the system, specifying entry points, to create one? Cheers, -- jra -- Jay R. Ashworth jra@baylink.com Member of the Technical Staff Baylink The Suncoast Freenet The Things I Think Tampa Bay, Florida http://baylink.pitas.com +1 727 804 5015 From jra@baylink.com Fri Mar 16 05:41:48 2001 From: jra@baylink.com (Jay R. Ashworth) Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 00:41:48 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Here's a little issue with the news gatewaying: If the n In-Reply-To: <15025.42148.377219.468002@anthem.wooz.org>; from "Barry A. Warsaw" on Fri, Mar 16, 2001 at 12:29:08AM -0500 References: <15022.39292.637113.840278@anthem.wooz.org> <20010313175430.51812@scfn.thpl.lib.fl.us> <15022.44052.277026.853903@anthem.wooz.org> <20010313225457.39716@scfn.thpl.lib.fl.us> <15022.65424.707104.510698@anthem.wooz.org> <20010315105347.I404@xs4all.nl> <20010315112926.00539@scfn.thpl.lib.fl.us> <20010316001658.E29286@xs4all.nl> <20010315221014.38411@scfn.thpl.lib.fl.us> <15025.42148.377219.468002@anthem.wooz.org> Message-ID: <20010316004148.02391@scfn.thpl.lib.fl.us> On Fri, Mar 16, 2001 at 12:29:08AM -0500, Barry A. Warsaw wrote: > >>>>> "JRA" == Jay R Ashworth writes: Have I mentioned that I hate that quoting style? :-) > JRA> Well, no, but you can swim in the Object Orientation, or you > JRA> can tiptoe through it, and the code I've looked at doesn't > JRA> look to horribly deep to me. > > Python's very cool that way. It makes OOP about as simple as it can > possibly be. In fact, I think Python would make a wonderful first or > OOP teaching language. Jeez, at least much better than C++ or Java. Yeah, well, that dictionary stuff kinda lost me. I guess I'll get it, from looking at working code... > JRA> Except make_whatever in Utils; how do you get a hard newline > JRA> in that damned routine? > > You mean Utils.maketext()? You could set raw=1 which says not to pass > the text to wrap(), and then your template would have to be properly > wrapped already (if it's a plaintext file), or you'd include

                  's and >
                  's if it's html. > > The rules for wrap() are pretty simple. Paragraphs are always filled > unless the line begins with whitespace. Blank lines separate > paragraphs. That's it. > > But I'll admit that wrap() is a bear of an algorithm, and I fear, too > fragile to muck with. Still it does the job. Usable, human-friendly > "structured" plaintext is a /hard/ problem, as anybody who's played > with Wiki's StructuredText stuff will attest too. Ah. Ok. Yeah, I ended up indenting one space the stuff I didn't want wrapped. > JRA> The template stuff is one of the weak spots in system > JRA> operator documentation... and the templates could us a touch > JRA> of work, too -- no offence to whomever's writing that is... > > I completely agree. Noted. It's not an easy problem, as I found out when I tried rewriting some of them. More When I Know More. Cheers, -- jra -- Jay R. Ashworth jra@baylink.com Member of the Technical Staff Baylink The Suncoast Freenet The Things I Think Tampa Bay, Florida http://baylink.pitas.com +1 727 804 5015 From ricardo@rixhq.nu Fri Mar 16 07:26:03 2001 From: ricardo@rixhq.nu (Ricardo Kustner) Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 08:26:03 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] mailman and the web In-Reply-To: <20010315103238.H404@xs4all.nl>; from thomas@xs4all.net on Thu, Mar 15, 2001 at 10:32:38AM +0100 References: <4.2.2.20010312193934.00d10170@hollyjerry.org> <3AAE55F0.6A8A2F65@greatbridge.com> <4.2.2.20010313091845.00d26e30@hollyjerry.org> <20010315103238.H404@xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <20010316082603.A5616@rix.rixhq.nu> Hi, On Thu, Mar 15, 2001 at 10:32:38AM +0100, Thomas Wouters wrote: > On Tue, Mar 13, 2001 at 09:23:28AM -0800, Jerry Asher wrote: > > >Phase 3: Develop Php front-end for Archives/Admin utils > > > That makes me curious. I know Tcl (and C, LISP, etc.) but not Python or > > PHP. One reason for undertaking this project was to give me something > > "real" to focus on while learning Python. My understanding was that Python > > and PHP are somewhat competing technologies. Mailman is a Python tool > PHP and Python aren't as competing with each other as Python and Tcl are :-) > Seriously, though, I personally detest PHP. I've done a fair lot in it, and > I hate it for a number of reasons, one of the more important ones being > security (or lack thereof.) Python is a much, much easier language to > program in, even for Web/CGI stuff, and if you are going to execute Python > in the back anyway, it's not that much faster. This makes me wonder... is there a mod_python for apache? or maybe fastcgi libs? would be interesting to have an extra choice to be able to run mailman in such an environment... especially if we get database support in the code; then it'd be good to be able to use persistant db links IMHO... In a little defense for PHP, I think it's almost like perl; even though you know it has some issues it gets the job done very quickly easily and almost anything you want to do is available out of the box. Which I think it's one of the reasons why it grows so quickly... I don't agree with python being easier though :) For somebody new to programming it's easier to learn PHP than python... in some way PHP is just a huge number of available functions with a bit of programming language around it ;) ps: sorry if my mesage is a bit messy; I have to get used to using mutt+vi again... I've given up my search for a stable gui mail client for now (again ;)) -- Regards, Ricardo From tollef@add.no Fri Mar 16 09:39:42 2001 From: tollef@add.no (Tollef Fog Heen) Date: 16 Mar 2001 10:39:42 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] mailman and the web In-Reply-To: <20010316082603.A5616@rix.rixhq.nu> References: <4.2.2.20010312193934.00d10170@hollyjerry.org> <3AAE55F0.6A8A2F65@greatbridge.com> <4.2.2.20010313091845.00d26e30@hollyjerry.org> <20010315103238.H404@xs4all.nl> <20010316082603.A5616@rix.rixhq.nu> Message-ID: <87y9u6kq75.fsf@arabella.intern.opera.no> * Ricardo Kustner | This makes me wonder... is there a mod_python for apache? yes. I haven't used it, though, so I can't tell how good it is. | ps: sorry if my mesage is a bit messy; I have to get used to using | mutt+vi again... I've given up my search for a stable gui mail client | for now (again ;)) gnus? -- Tollef Fog Heen Unix _IS_ user friendly... It's just selective about who its friends are. From thomas@xs4all.net Fri Mar 16 21:39:48 2001 From: thomas@xs4all.net (Thomas Wouters) Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 22:39:48 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] mailman and the web In-Reply-To: <20010316082603.A5616@rix.rixhq.nu>; from ricardo@rixhq.nu on Fri, Mar 16, 2001 at 08:26:03AM +0100 References: <4.2.2.20010312193934.00d10170@hollyjerry.org> <3AAE55F0.6A8A2F65@greatbridge.com> <4.2.2.20010313091845.00d26e30@hollyjerry.org> <20010315103238.H404@xs4all.nl> <20010316082603.A5616@rix.rixhq.nu> Message-ID: <20010316223948.F29286@xs4all.nl> On Fri, Mar 16, 2001 at 08:26:03AM +0100, Ricardo Kustner wrote: > This makes me wonder... is there a mod_python for apache? or maybe fastcgi > libs? would be interesting to have an extra choice to be able to run > mailman in such an environment... especially if we get database support in > the code; then it'd be good to be able to use persistant db links IMHO... There is a fastcgi lib for Python, and there are two Apache modules, mod_python and mod_snake. mod_python is less versatile, though, and I don't believe it allows Python embedded in HTML. mod_snake does, IIRC. mod_snake also allows deeply embedded Python (that is, Python code that can get into Apache internals, especiall Apache 2.0.) You can basically write Apache extentions using mod_snake and Apache 2.0. > In a little defense for PHP, I think it's almost like perl; even though > you know it has some issues it gets the job done very quickly easily and > almost anything you want to do is available out of the box. Which I think > it's one of the reasons why it grows so quickly... It gets the job done quickly, easily if the job is very small, and very *messy* :) Just consider the fact that you can call a php page using '?var=value' and $var will be 'value' in the PHP page. End result: you can't trust variables :P > I don't agree with python being easier though :) For somebody new to > programming it's easier to learn PHP than python... in some way PHP is > just a huge number of available functions with a bit of programming > language around it ;) As a scripting language, PHP might be easier (I don't agree, but still.) But if you have no programming knowledge, or you want more than a quick hack to call a function, Python is definately easier. > ps: sorry if my mesage is a bit messy; I have to get used to using mutt+vi > again... I've given up my search for a stable gui mail client for now > (again ;)) Your lines seem to be wrapped at character 100 or so. Doesn't bother me, my editor (which, contrary to vi, is a real editor ) does the paragraph reflowing for me :) -- Thomas Wouters Hi! I'm a .signature virus! copy me into your .signature file to help me spread! From hypnose@t-online.de Sat Mar 17 09:11:17 2001 From: hypnose@t-online.de (guenter wessling) Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2001 10:11:17 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] german templates - final Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010317101117.007d22a0@pop.btx.dtag.de> Hi. For all those who are interested, I have the templates of 2.1 translated to German language and usable in www. It=B4s a windows zip-archive of 18k. Those who want them, please reply to=20 hypnose@t-online.de=20 with subject "german templates - please send" guenter guenter wessling (hypnose@t-online.de) From ricardo@rixhq.nu Sat Mar 17 23:28:39 2001 From: ricardo@rixhq.nu (Ricardo Kustner) Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2001 00:28:39 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Re: mailman and the web (OFFTOPIC) In-Reply-To: <20010316223948.F29286@xs4all.nl>; from thomas@xs4all.net on Fri, Mar 16, 2001 at 10:39:48PM +0100 References: <4.2.2.20010312193934.00d10170@hollyjerry.org> <3AAE55F0.6A8A2F65@greatbridge.com> <4.2.2.20010313091845.00d26e30@hollyjerry.org> <20010315103238.H404@xs4all.nl> <20010316082603.A5616@rix.rixhq.nu> <20010316223948.F29286@xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <20010318002839.C25020@rix.rixhq.nu> On Fri, Mar 16, 2001 at 10:39:48PM +0100, Thomas Wouters wrote: > On Fri, Mar 16, 2001 at 08:26:03AM +0100, Ricardo Kustner wrote: > > This makes me wonder... is there a mod_python for apache? or maybe fastcgi > > libs? would be interesting to have an extra choice to be able to run > > mailman in such an environment... especially if we get database support in > > the code; then it'd be good to be able to use persistant db links IMHO... > There is a fastcgi lib for Python, and there are two Apache modules, > mod_python and mod_snake. mod_python is less versatile, though, and I don't > believe it allows Python embedded in HTML. mod_snake does, IIRC. mod_snake > also allows deeply embedded Python (that is, Python code that can get into > Apache internals, especiall Apache 2.0.) You can basically write Apache > extentions using mod_snake and Apache 2.0. ah... nice, just like mod_perl. Maybe that's something I should look into (snake)... I really want to get more experience in python, but since I usually develop things that run on a webserver, I prefer to use something that can be part of the webserver for optimal performance. I have enough projects which I can try out with python; and maybe I can have a look into if it could benefit mailman. > > In a little defense for PHP, I think it's almost like perl; even though > > you know it has some issues it gets the job done very quickly easily and > > almost anything you want to do is available out of the box. Which I think > It gets the job done quickly, easily if the job is very small, and very > *messy* :) Just consider the fact that you can call a php page using > '?var=value' and $var will be 'value' in the PHP page. End result: you > can't trust variables :P If I'm not mistaken you can turn that off systemwide... > > I don't agree with python being easier though :) For somebody new to > > programming it's easier to learn PHP than python... in some way PHP is > > just a huge number of available functions with a bit of programming > > language around it ;) > As a scripting language, PHP might be easier (I don't agree, but still.) But > if you have no programming knowledge, or you want more than a quick hack to > call a function, Python is definately easier. I've seen several people with hardly any programming knowledge pickup PHP very quickly. But maybe they would learn python even faster, I don't know :) > > ps: sorry if my mesage is a bit messy; I have to get used to using mutt+vi > > again... I've given up my search for a stable gui mail client for now > > (again ;)) > Your lines seem to be wrapped at character 100 or so. Doesn't bother me, my > editor (which, contrary to vi, is a real editor ) does the paragraph > reflowing for me :) which editor is that? I can't seem to figure it out from the message headers :) -- Regards, Ricardo From thomas@xs4all.net Sun Mar 18 01:05:24 2001 From: thomas@xs4all.net (Thomas Wouters) Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2001 02:05:24 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Re: mailman and the web (OFFTOPIC) In-Reply-To: <20010318002839.C25020@rix.rixhq.nu>; from ricardo@rixhq.nu on Sun, Mar 18, 2001 at 12:28:39AM +0100 References: <4.2.2.20010312193934.00d10170@hollyjerry.org> <3AAE55F0.6A8A2F65@greatbridge.com> <4.2.2.20010313091845.00d26e30@hollyjerry.org> <20010315103238.H404@xs4all.nl> <20010316082603.A5616@rix.rixhq.nu> <20010316223948.F29286@xs4all.nl> <20010318002839.C25020@rix.rixhq.nu> Message-ID: <20010318020524.L29286@xs4all.nl> On Sun, Mar 18, 2001 at 12:28:39AM +0100, Ricardo Kustner wrote: > On Fri, Mar 16, 2001 at 10:39:48PM +0100, Thomas Wouters wrote: > > Your lines seem to be wrapped at character 100 or so. Doesn't bother me, > > my editor (which, contrary to vi, is a real editor ) does the > > paragraph reflowing for me :) > which editor is that? I can't seem to figure it out from the message > headers :) It's 'joe', but it could have been (X)Emacs as well :) I haven't figured out how to teach (X)Emacs about quote characters yet, though. (joe recognizes common prefixes and takes them into account when doing paragraph reflowing. Say you have a text like > foo > bar baz baz and you type ^Kj while inside that paragraph, or you select the text and type ^Kj, it figures out '> ' is used to quote the paragraph and adjusts the string accordingly. So instead of > foo > bar baz baz you end up with > foo bar baz baz It fucks up occasionaly, and you don't want to do paragraph reflowing on a preformated paragraph (say, Python code examples :) but for replying to people with broken mailers/editors, it's +rock :) And besides, if it goes wrong, you do ^_ (undo :) -- Thomas Wouters Hi! I'm a .signature virus! copy me into your .signature file to help me spread! From barry@digicool.com Sun Mar 18 16:43:16 2001 From: barry@digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw) Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2001 11:43:16 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Re: mailman and the web (OFFTOPIC) References: <4.2.2.20010312193934.00d10170@hollyjerry.org> <3AAE55F0.6A8A2F65@greatbridge.com> <4.2.2.20010313091845.00d26e30@hollyjerry.org> <20010315103238.H404@xs4all.nl> <20010316082603.A5616@rix.rixhq.nu> <20010316223948.F29286@xs4all.nl> <20010318002839.C25020@rix.rixhq.nu> <20010318020524.L29286@xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <15028.58788.227124.425558@anthem.wooz.org> >>>>> "TW" == Thomas Wouters writes: TW> It's 'joe', but it could have been (X)Emacs as well :) I TW> haven't figured out how to teach (X)Emacs about quote TW> characters yet, though. (joe recognizes common prefixes and TW> takes them into account when doing paragraph reflowing. Say TW> you have a text like Do you know about filladapt? It's a way cool add-on (which comes with XEmacs but not sure about Emacs) and it seems to Just Work with most kinds of crazy prefixing, not just of bizarrely quoted email text , but with, say numbered lists in Python comments. TW> It fucks up occasionaly, and you don't want to do paragraph TW> reflowing on a preformated paragraph (say, Python code TW> examples :) but for replying to people with broken TW> mailers/editors, it's +rock :) And besides, if it goes wrong, TW> you do ^_ (undo :) BTW, for any latent elisp hackers out there, my long orphaned Supercite 4 alpha has some heuristics to try to recognize code examples, and other types of text in email messages and quote/wrap them accordingly. So far, I've found no takers to continue to work on the code, which despite its well-deserved alpha label has served me well for several years. getting-really-off-topic-now-ly y'rs, -Barry From barry@digicool.com Sun Mar 18 17:12:24 2001 From: barry@digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw) Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2001 12:12:24 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] mailman and the web References: <4.2.2.20010312193934.00d10170@hollyjerry.org> Message-ID: <15028.60536.334661.193271@anthem.wooz.org> >>>>> "JA" == Jerry Asher writes: JA> Currently the ACS system is such that visitors can request JA> that follow up answers be sent to them, which the ACS JA> implements by creating hundreds of individual emails and JA> mailing them out. How would you organize it otherwise? A new mailing list for each page, with the membership being those people who want followups for that particular page? Some of the ideas I have for Mailman 3.0 include the ability to create lighter weight lists that could be created and deleted much easier than current mailing list objects. OTOH, something that might happen post-2.1 is added a `topics' feature where a mailing list can have a small vocabulary of keywords added by the list admin, and the recipients could select which messages from the whole list they'd filter out or receive based on these keywords. This would be quite handy for some of our high volume lists like python-dev and python-list. JA> I would like to "unify" the ACS bulletin board code with JA> "some" mailing list manager. The benefits to the ACS toolkit JA> I perceive would include: | 1 detecting/catching vacation messages Vacation messages are never supposed to be sent to messages with "Precedence: bulk" headers. I think this is a rather ad-hoc `standard' and a lot of vacation programs just don't conform. For those buggy programs, knowing who they actually send the vacation messages to is impossible. Maybe it's Reply-to:/From: but sometimes it's Sender: or even Errors-To:. Mailman sets the latter to the -admin address, so at least there's a hope that even for broken vacation progs, the original sender won't get completely spammed. OTOH, I'm not sure there's much Mailman can do. Few even broken vacation progs will send their responses to the list (thank goodness), and if it doesn't go through Mailman, it obviously can't detect or catch it. | 2 detecting/catching/(and maybe unsubscribing) bounces Mailman's quite good at detecting and catching bounces. Mailman 2.1 should be better (I've added quite a few new detectors, but due to a pre-CVS snafu, I lost most of my bounce samples from my test suite). Currently, Mailman will disable an address after some bounce criteria has been met, but the actual disposition of permanently fatal addresses have long been talked about (e.g. some distinction b/w disabled by the user and disabled by Mailman, auto-resends for some period of time to see if the address comes back, auto-unsubscribing). | 3 ability to post directly to the bulletin from email | (and have the posts end up in the right threads) Do you mean email->bbs? That can theoretically be possible using the same mechanism that email->news or email->archive works: you write a Handlers/ module to inject the message into the bbs. Your handler module will contain a process() function that takes a mailing list, a message, and a Python dictionary containing message metadata. Then it Does Whatever It Wants with this information and returns None. With an appropriate API for injection into the bbs, the DWIW part shouldn't be hard. In MM2.1, you might instead create a separate queue for shuttling messages into the bbs. JA> 4 but I am worried about mail loops. Mailman kills loops by adding an X-BeenThere: header with the list address as the value. If it detects such a header on an incoming message, it throws a LoopError, which is currently defined to discard the message. Not all mail loops will preserve X-BeenThere, but I think in practice it works pretty well. -Barry From barry@digicool.com Sun Mar 18 17:16:41 2001 From: barry@digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw) Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2001 12:16:41 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] mailman and the web References: <4.2.2.20010312193934.00d10170@hollyjerry.org> <3AAE55F0.6A8A2F65@greatbridge.com> Message-ID: <15028.60793.907054.789543@anthem.wooz.org> >>>>> "CR" == Chris Ryan writes: CR> Phase 3: Develop Php front-end for Archives/Admin utils It'd have to be a really really convincing argument[*] for me to add PHP to Mailman in any kind of supported way. As an add-on, sure, and figuring out the write API to put on Mailman to allow different web front-ends is definitely something that's important to me. That's not to say that the CGI side of Mailman couldn't be vastly improved. I think there are good Pythonic solutions to this though. [*]-50%-of-Guido's-bounty-for-adding-braces-to-Python-seems-about-right-ly y'rs, -Barry From jra@baylink.com Sun Mar 18 17:21:22 2001 From: jra@baylink.com (Jay R. Ashworth) Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2001 12:21:22 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Re: mailman and the web (OFFTOPIC) In-Reply-To: <20010318020524.L29286@xs4all.nl>; from Thomas Wouters on Sun, Mar 18, 2001 at 02:05:24AM +0100 References: <4.2.2.20010312193934.00d10170@hollyjerry.org> <3AAE55F0.6A8A2F65@greatbridge.com> <4.2.2.20010313091845.00d26e30@hollyjerry.org> <20010315103238.H404@xs4all.nl> <20010316082603.A5616@rix.rixhq.nu> <20010316223948.F29286@xs4all.nl> <20010318002839.C25020@rix.rixhq.nu> <20010318020524.L29286@xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <20010318122122.41095@scfn.thpl.lib.fl.us> On Sun, Mar 18, 2001 at 02:05:24AM +0100, Thomas Wouters wrote: > It fucks up occasionaly, and you don't want to do paragraph reflowing on a > preformated paragraph (say, Python code examples :) but for replying to > people with broken mailers/editors, it's +rock :) And besides, if it goes > wrong, you do ^_ (undo :) "par(1)". Cheers, -- jra -- Jay R. Ashworth jra@baylink.com Member of the Technical Staff Baylink The Suncoast Freenet The Things I Think Tampa Bay, Florida http://baylink.pitas.com +1 727 804 5015 From jra@baylink.com Sun Mar 18 18:11:32 2001 From: jra@baylink.com (Jay R. Ashworth) Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2001 13:11:32 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] mailman and the web In-Reply-To: <15028.60793.907054.789543@anthem.wooz.org>; from "Barry A. Warsaw" on Sun, Mar 18, 2001 at 12:16:41PM -0500 References: <4.2.2.20010312193934.00d10170@hollyjerry.org> <3AAE55F0.6A8A2F65@greatbridge.com> <15028.60793.907054.789543@anthem.wooz.org> Message-ID: <20010318131132.58763@scfn.thpl.lib.fl.us> On Sun, Mar 18, 2001 at 12:16:41PM -0500, Barry A. Warsaw wrote: > [*]-50%-of-Guido's-bounty-for-adding-braces-to-Python-seems-about-right-ly > y'rs, Which is? -- j -- Jay R. Ashworth jra@baylink.com Member of the Technical Staff Baylink The Suncoast Freenet The Things I Think Tampa Bay, Florida http://baylink.pitas.com +1 727 804 5015 From ricardo@rixhq.nu Sun Mar 18 22:15:03 2001 From: ricardo@rixhq.nu (Ricardo Kustner) Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2001 23:15:03 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] python 2.0 & mailman Message-ID: <20010318231503.B28367@rix.rixhq.nu> Hi, After almost a year of succesfull mailman usage, my server is starting to run into performance trouble again (probably due to an enormous increase in webtraffic and list subscribers). So I'm looking into ways of increasing performance again. I was wondering if python 2.0 has significant performance increase compared to 1.5.2? I'm sure I can sqeaze some more performance out of this Pentium-1 box :) ps: my message should be much less messy now... I'm using joe as my mutt editor... I remember the keybindings from QEdit from those good old DOS days so I think I can manage pps: I didn't realize I was amongst true hackers who still use emacs on here; I'm honored ! ;) -- Regards, Ricardo From jerry@hollyjerry.org Mon Mar 19 01:37:21 2001 From: jerry@hollyjerry.org (Jerry Asher) Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2001 17:37:21 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] mailman and the web In-Reply-To: <15028.60536.334661.193271@anthem.wooz.org> References: <4.2.2.20010312193934.00d10170@hollyjerry.org> Message-ID: <4.2.2.20010318121307.00bf8c00@hollyjerry.org> Thanks for responding. Let me apologize "the new kid" has arrived, and travel reservations, etc. has turned this into a six hour, reply in dire need of editing..... JA> Currently the ACS system is such that visitors can request > JA> that follow up answers be sent to them, which the ACS > JA> implements by creating hundreds of individual emails and > JA> mailing them out. > >How would you organize it otherwise? I didn't mean to imply that I would *organize* it differently (although I like your ideas about topic ids that you mention later on). I was trying to suggest I would like to *implement* it differently. Currently, the ACS bboard software, (uh, I believe) sends a new email to each individual. Some have suggested that this in unnecessarily inefficient, that a smarter mailer (that might be found in a mailing list) might batch up the emails more efficiently. Is that true? Does mailman accomplish this? But also, the ACS bboard software doesn't do anything special with the headers that one *is supposed* to do for mailing lists. For instance, you mention a "precedence: bulk" header to ward off properly configured vacation programs. The ACS bboard doesn't do that, yet. So unifying the ACS bboard with a maillist list manager that already implements proper header creation benefits the ACS wonderfully. > | 1 detecting/catching vacation messages > >Vacation messages are never supposed to be sent to messages with >"Precedence: bulk" headers. I think this is a rather ad-hoc >`standard' and a lot of vacation programs just don't conform. For >those buggy programs, knowing who they actually send the vacation >messages to is impossible. Maybe it's Reply-to:/From: but sometimes >it's Sender: or even Errors-To:. Mailman sets the latter to the >-admin address, so at least there's a hope that even for broken >vacation progs, the original sender won't get completely spammed. Thanks for this information, the ACS bboard isn't setting precedence errors-to, sender, or anything. >OTOH, I'm not sure there's much Mailman can do. Few even broken >vacation progs will send their responses to the list (thank goodness), >and if it doesn't go through Mailman, it obviously can't detect or >catch it. I think the plan (initally) would be for all mail and replies to go through Mailman just so the ACS can benefit from Mailman's having done this already, and Mailman's developers continuing interest in improving, or following new standards, etc. >Do you mean email->bbs? That can theoretically be possible using the >same mechanism that email->news or email->archive works: you write a >Handlers/ module to inject the message into the bbs. Your handler >module will contain a process() function that takes a mailing list, a >message, and a Python dictionary containing message metadata. Then it >Does Whatever It Wants with this information and returns None. With >an appropriate API for injection into the bbs, the DWIW part shouldn't >be hard. That sounds good. Pardon my Mailman/Python ignorance, is there truly a procedure literally called email->bbs, or does this describe a "path" that mail can take? How do I do the reverse? bbs->email? (Just send an email to the list?) How might I encode a piece of bbs data into an email such that replies to the email will carry that piece of data back? (that is, the specific thread/topic_id that the bbs should put the message into). I realize I can do this by mangling the subject line for example: "Re: [thread: 2FC24] Mrs. Field's Recipes", but is there a more subtle/correct way to do this? Perhaps by adding a header? Or by mangling the reply-to address? Qmail has wonderful behavior that supports my mangling of the reply-to address. You can send a message to me at jerry@hollyjerry.org, or jerry-junk@hollyjerry.org, or jerry-webvan@ or you can put anything after the hyphen. It will get to me all the same, OR I can set up qmail in a procmail like fashion to pass the message to a script which can filter the messages based on the data after the hyphen. So one way to encode the bbs thread data is to set the reply to "bboard-thread-2FC24@mybboard.com". I found a recent copy of RFC 2076 that explains some of these headers, but can you point me to some documents that specifically what maillists are supposed to do including these ad-hoc standards? Last night I was at the bookstore and flipped through an O'Reilly text: "Programming Email" - that sure didn't contain anything helpful. What specifies the behavior of a mail user agent in reply? If I send a header, will the user agent include that header in a reply? Specifically, it appears I might encode some bboard message threading information in an X-URI, X-URL, or Content-Alternative headers. "Should" a reply to a message containing those headers contain those headers? From your answer regarding X-BeenThere, it sounds as though a "normal" reply should not include these headers.... Thanks, Jerry ===================================================== Jerry Asher jerry@hollyjerry.org 1678 Shattuck Avenue Suite 161 Tel: (510) 549-2980 Berkeley, CA 94709 Fax: (877) 311-8688 From barry@digicool.com Mon Mar 19 03:17:04 2001 From: barry@digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw) Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2001 22:17:04 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] mailman and the web References: <4.2.2.20010312193934.00d10170@hollyjerry.org> <4.2.2.20010318121307.00bf8c00@hollyjerry.org> Message-ID: <15029.31280.957127.162874@anthem.wooz.org> JA> Currently, the ACS bboard software, (uh, I believe) sends a JA> new email to each individual. Some have suggested that this JA> in unnecessarily inefficient, that a smarter mailer (that JA> might be found in a mailing list) might batch up the emails JA> more efficiently. Is that true? Does mailman accomplish JA> this? Yes, in a way. Mailman isn't an MTA (i.e. mail transport agent, or smtp daemon), but it tries to cooperate with the MTA by handing messages off in batches. Ignoring optional chunking for the moment, let's say that you have a list with 1000 recipients. You could do like what it sounds ACS does and make 1000 separate connections to the local MTA, handing off a unique message per recipient. Or perhaps ACS tries to connect to each remote smtpd itself, in which case it has to handle all the problems of mail delivery normally best left to an MTA. In Mailman, this message would be handed off to the local MTA as one copy, with 1000 recipients. Then it would be up to the MTA to do as efficient delivery as is possible. Mailman has some optional chunking parameters so that it can be tuned to your MTA, but in general, it tries to hand off the message with the fewest dialog with the MTA as possible, and then it gets out of the way. JA> But also, the ACS bboard software doesn't do anything special JA> with the headers that one *is supposed* to do for mailing JA> lists. For instance, you mention a "precedence: bulk" header JA> to ward off properly configured vacation programs. The ACS JA> bboard doesn't do that, yet. So unifying the ACS bboard with JA> a maillist list manager that already implements proper header JA> creation benefits the ACS wonderfully. That sounds good. There are some other RFCs governing headers for mailing lists, and there are headers that are best removed, etc. Mailman's got all that. JA> I think the plan (initally) would be for all mail and replies JA> to go through Mailman just so the ACS can benefit from JA> Mailman's having done this already, and Mailman's developers JA> continuing interest in improving, or following new standards, JA> etc. Definitely doable. JA> That sounds good. Pardon my Mailman/Python ignorance, is JA> there truly a procedure literally called email->bbs, or does JA> this describe a "path" that mail can take? That just describes the path of the mail. JA> How do I do the reverse? bbs->email? (Just send an email to JA> the list?) Yep. It's as easy as having the bbs send the email to mylist@myhost.com. You /could/ inject it more directly, but you may not need to. JA> How might I encode a piece of bbs data into an email such that JA> replies to the email will carry that piece of data back? JA> (that is, the specific thread/topic_id that the bbs should put JA> the message into). I realize I can do this by mangling the JA> subject line for example: JA> "Re: [thread: 2FC24] Mrs. Field's Recipes", JA> but is there a more subtle/correct way to do this? Perhaps by JA> adding a header? Or by mangling the reply-to address? There's almost nothing you can do to an email message that you can guarantee will come back to you when someone replies to that message. MUAs (mail user agents, the thing a person uses to read and respond to their email) seems to have no lack of creativity in mucking up, adding, and deleting headers, or futzing with message bodies. I think you can be reasonably assured that Subject: mangling will mostly survive the round-trip, but that's about it. If you hack Reply-To: it's a good bet that you'll see that text come back at you in the To: or Cc: headers. I'm not sure what, if anything else you can rely on with enough certainty for your purposes. JA> Qmail has wonderful behavior that supports my mangling of the JA> reply-to address. You can send a message to me at JA> jerry@hollyjerry.org, or jerry-junk@hollyjerry.org, or JA> jerry-webvan@ or you can put anything after the hyphen. It JA> will get to me all the same, OR I can set up qmail in a JA> procmail like fashion to pass the message to a script which JA> can filter the messages based on the data after the hyphen. JA> So one way to encode the bbs thread data is to set the reply JA> to "bboard-thread-2FC24@mybboard.com". Postfix and Exim (and probably Sendmail) have similar functionality. That might not be a bad way to go. JA> I found a recent copy of RFC 2076 that explains some of these JA> headers, but can you point me to some documents that JA> specifically what maillists are supposed to do including these JA> ad-hoc standards? Last night I was at the bookstore and JA> flipped through an O'Reilly text: "Programming Email" - that JA> sure didn't contain anything helpful. Heh. RFC 2369 describes the List-* headers, and of course there's also the basic RFCs like 822, 1153, and the MIME RFCs. There's tons of useful lore on the net not covered in the RFCs. I'll try to find some time to put together a list of URLs I tend to consult, and add it to the Mailman docs. JA> What specifies the behavior of a mail user agent in reply? If JA> I send a header, will the user agent include that header in a JA> reply? JA> Specifically, it appears I might encode some bboard message JA> threading information in an X-URI, X-URL, or JA> Content-Alternative headers. "Should" a reply to a message JA> containing those headers contain those headers? From your JA> answer regarding X-BeenThere, it sounds as though a "normal" JA> reply should not include these headers.... Correct. See above. What specifies the behavior of an MUA is mostly the whim of the engineers who wrote the thing, near as I can tell. :) Cheers, -Barry From jra@baylink.com Mon Mar 19 03:33:54 2001 From: jra@baylink.com (Jay R. Ashworth) Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2001 22:33:54 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Wildly OT - qmail and mangling (was: mailman and the web) In-Reply-To: <4.2.2.20010318121307.00bf8c00@hollyjerry.org>; from Jerry Asher on Sun, Mar 18, 2001 at 05:37:21PM -0800 References: <4.2.2.20010312193934.00d10170@hollyjerry.org> <15028.60536.334661.193271@anthem.wooz.org> <4.2.2.20010318121307.00bf8c00@hollyjerry.org> Message-ID: <20010318223354.25893@scfn.thpl.lib.fl.us> On Sun, Mar 18, 2001 at 05:37:21PM -0800, Jerry Asher wrote: > Qmail has wonderful behavior that supports my mangling of the reply-to > address. You can send a message to me at jerry@hollyjerry.org, or > jerry-junk@hollyjerry.org, or jerry-webvan@ or you can put anything after > the hyphen. It will get to me all the same, OR I can set up qmail in a > procmail like fashion to pass the message to a script which can filter the > messages based on the data after the hyphen. So one way to encode the bbs > thread data is to set the reply to "bboard-thread-2FC24@mybboard.com". Typical djb mistake. There's been a defined protocol for that that well predates qmail (unless I'm much mistaken); the defined character is a "+". No, it's not a formal standard... but it's apparently a widely defined informal standard. Cheers, -- jra -- Jay R. Ashworth jra@baylink.com Member of the Technical Staff Baylink The Suncoast Freenet The Things I Think Tampa Bay, Florida http://baylink.pitas.com +1 727 804 5015 From jra@baylink.com Mon Mar 19 03:35:50 2001 From: jra@baylink.com (Jay R. Ashworth) Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2001 22:35:50 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] mailman and the web In-Reply-To: <15029.31280.957127.162874@anthem.wooz.org>; from "Barry A. Warsaw" on Sun, Mar 18, 2001 at 10:17:04PM -0500 References: <4.2.2.20010312193934.00d10170@hollyjerry.org> <4.2.2.20010318121307.00bf8c00@hollyjerry.org> <15029.31280.957127.162874@anthem.wooz.org> Message-ID: <20010318223550.37121@scfn.thpl.lib.fl.us> On Sun, Mar 18, 2001 at 10:17:04PM -0500, Barry A. Warsaw wrote: > In Mailman, this message would be handed off to the local MTA as one > copy, with 1000 recipients. Then it would be up to the MTA to do as > efficient delivery as is possible. Mailman has some optional chunking > parameters so that it can be tuned to your MTA, but in general, it > tries to hand off the message with the fewest dialog with the MTA as > possible, and then it gets out of the way. And for good reason. From an adventure last week, on a P200: Time to add 1000 recipients to a list with welcome mails: 70-80 minutes. Time to add 1000 recipients to a list *without* welcome mails: roughly 2 minutes. Cheers, -- jra -- Jay R. Ashworth jra@baylink.com Member of the Technical Staff Baylink The Suncoast Freenet The Things I Think Tampa Bay, Florida http://baylink.pitas.com +1 727 804 5015 From gerald@impressive.net Mon Mar 19 10:42:23 2001 From: gerald@impressive.net (Gerald Oskoboiny) Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 05:42:23 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Re: mailman and the web (OFFTOPIC) In-Reply-To: <20010318020524.L29286@xs4all.nl>; from thomas@xs4all.net on Sun, Mar 18, 2001 at 02:05:24AM +0100 References: <4.2.2.20010312193934.00d10170@hollyjerry.org> <3AAE55F0.6A8A2F65@greatbridge.com> <4.2.2.20010313091845.00d26e30@hollyjerry.org> <20010315103238.H404@xs4all.nl> <20010316082603.A5616@rix.rixhq.nu> <20010316223948.F29286@xs4all.nl> <20010318002839.C25020@rix.rixhq.nu> <20010318020524.L29286@xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <20010319054223.A8458@impressive.net> On Sun, Mar 18, 2001 at 02:05:24AM +0100, Thomas Wouters wrote: > On Sun, Mar 18, 2001 at 12:28:39AM +0100, Ricardo Kustner wrote: > > On Fri, Mar 16, 2001 at 10:39:48PM +0100, Thomas Wouters wrote: > > > > Your lines seem to be wrapped at character 100 or so. Doesn't bother me, > > > my editor (which, contrary to vi, is a real editor ) does the > > > paragraph reflowing for me :) Hey, any editor can be misconfigured into doing the wrong thing. :) > > which editor is that? I can't seem to figure it out from the message > > headers :) > > It's 'joe', but it could have been (X)Emacs as well :) I haven't figured out > how to teach (X)Emacs about quote characters yet, though. (joe recognizes > common prefixes and takes them into account when doing paragraph reflowing. vim does this too, you just press "gq", then indicate the text that you want to reflow. (e.g., to reflow the current paragraph, "gq}") mutt+vim is the best of all possible email worlds imho :) -- Gerald Oskoboiny http://impressive.net/people/gerald/ From claw@kanga.nu Tue Mar 20 04:29:51 2001 From: claw@kanga.nu (J C Lawrence) Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 20:29:51 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] mailman and the web In-Reply-To: Message from "Jay R. Ashworth" of "Sun, 18 Mar 2001 22:35:50 EST." <20010318223550.37121@scfn.thpl.lib.fl.us> References: <4.2.2.20010312193934.00d10170@hollyjerry.org> <4.2.2.20010318121307.00bf8c00@hollyjerry.org> <15029.31280.957127.162874@anthem.wooz.org> <20010318223550.37121@scfn.thpl.lib.fl.us> Message-ID: <23827.985062591@kanga.nu> On Sun, 18 Mar 2001 22:35:50 -0500 Jay R Ashworth wrote: > On Sun, Mar 18, 2001 at 10:17:04PM -0500, Barry A. Warsaw wrote: >> In Mailman, this message would be handed off to the local MTA as >> one copy, with 1000 recipients. Then it would be up to the MTA >> to do as efficient delivery as is possible. Mailman has some >> optional chunking parameters so that it can be tuned to your MTA, >> but in general, it tries to hand off the message with the fewest >> dialog with the MTA as possible, and then it gets out of the way. > And for good reason. From an adventure last week, on a P200: > Time to add 1000 recipients to a list with welcome mails: 70-80 > minutes. > Time to add 1000 recipients to a list *without* welcome mails: > roughly 2 minutes. Translation your MTA is misconfigured to do some sort of extra processing (likely domain verification) on list server messages as they are delivered. Bad Idea (and a FAQ). A local test: On a dual PII-33 with 512M RAM running Postfix under Debian/Woody (kanga.nu), I created a test list and then subscribed 1,000 addresses to it via `~/bin/add_members -n members -w y`. Total execution time for the add_members command: 38 seconds. The member list in question was artificial (a set of trash +-addresses on localhost I have set to deliver to /dev/null but which are unique as far as postfix and Mailman are concerned). Qrunner on the same machine, when delivering a single message to one of my lists which has almost exactly 1,000 members (slightly over) takes just over 3.5 seconds with SMTP_MAX_RCPTS set to 5. I presume the extra time for add_members is due to poor lock management, but have not checked. -- J C Lawrence claw@kanga.nu ---------(*) http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/ --=| A man is as sane as he is dangerous to his environment |=-- From claw@kanga.nu Tue Mar 20 04:36:26 2001 From: claw@kanga.nu (J C Lawrence) Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 20:36:26 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Wildly OT - qmail and mangling (was: mailman and the web) In-Reply-To: Message from "Jay R. Ashworth" of "Sun, 18 Mar 2001 22:33:54 EST." <20010318223354.25893@scfn.thpl.lib.fl.us> References: <4.2.2.20010312193934.00d10170@hollyjerry.org> <15028.60536.334661.193271@anthem.wooz.org> <4.2.2.20010318121307.00bf8c00@hollyjerry.org> <20010318223354.25893@scfn.thpl.lib.fl.us> Message-ID: <3480.985062986@kanga.nu> On Sun, 18 Mar 2001 22:33:54 -0500 Jay R Ashworth wrote: > On Sun, Mar 18, 2001 at 05:37:21PM -0800, Jerry Asher wrote: >> Qmail has wonderful behavior that supports my mangling of the >> reply-to address. You can send a message to me at >> jerry@hollyjerry.org, or jerry-junk@hollyjerry.org, or >> jerry-webvan@ or you can put anything after the hyphen. It will >> get to me all the same, OR I can set up qmail in a procmail like >> fashion to pass the message to a script which can filter the >> messages based on the data after the hyphen. So one way to >> encode the bbs thread data is to set the reply to >> "bboard-thread-2FC24@mybboard.com". > Typical djb mistake. While he reinvented common practice (a definite DJB-ism) he hardly violated any standard -- +-addressing is still mostly larval. > There's been a defined protocol for that that well predates qmail > (unless I'm much mistaken); the defined character is a "+". No, > it's not a formal standard... but it's apparently a widely defined > informal standard. Every MTA I'm aware of that supports +-addressing mandates having the extension character set as part of the feature configuration. I've seen both '-' and '+' commonly used over tha last decade ro so outside of DJB circles. IIRC the early Sendmail patches for +-addressing used '-' by default until enough people yelled at Eric that it was too confusing and tended to screw up their other scripts. > Tampa Bay, Florida http://baylink.pitas.com +1 727 804 5015 Do Tim et al still do the Weds night/Sunday brunch meets? -- J C Lawrence claw@kanga.nu ---------(*) http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/ --=| A man is as sane as he is dangerous to his environment |=-- From claw@kanga.nu Tue Mar 20 04:38:43 2001 From: claw@kanga.nu (J C Lawrence) Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 20:38:43 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] python 2.0 & mailman In-Reply-To: Message from Ricardo Kustner of "Sun, 18 Mar 2001 23:15:03 +0100." <20010318231503.B28367@rix.rixhq.nu> References: <20010318231503.B28367@rix.rixhq.nu> Message-ID: <7706.985063123@kanga.nu> On Sun, 18 Mar 2001 23:15:03 +0100 Ricardo Kustner wrote: > After almost a year of succesfull mailman usage, my server is > starting to run into performance trouble again (probably due to an > enormous increase in webtraffic and list subscribers). What sort of performance troubles? What manifestations? -- J C Lawrence claw@kanga.nu ---------(*) http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/ --=| A man is as sane as he is dangerous to his environment |=-- From claw@kanga.nu Tue Mar 20 04:45:23 2001 From: claw@kanga.nu (J C Lawrence) Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 20:45:23 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] mailman and the web In-Reply-To: Message from barry@digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw) of "Sun, 18 Mar 2001 12:12:24 EST." <15028.60536.334661.193271@anthem.wooz.org> References: <4.2.2.20010312193934.00d10170@hollyjerry.org> <15028.60536.334661.193271@anthem.wooz.org> Message-ID: <19917.985063523@kanga.nu> On Sun, 18 Mar 2001 12:12:24 -0500 Barry A Warsaw wrote: > Mailman kills loops by adding an X-BeenThere: header with the list > address as the value. If it detects such a header on an incoming > message, it throws a LoopError, which is currently defined to > discard the message. Not all mail loops will preserve > X-BeenThere, but I think in practice it works pretty well. Note that many MTAs also have their own loop detection. Postfix for instance hooks off Delivered-To:. -- J C Lawrence claw@kanga.nu ---------(*) http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/ --=| A man is as sane as he is dangerous to his environment |=-- From claw@kanga.nu Tue Mar 20 04:51:22 2001 From: claw@kanga.nu (J C Lawrence) Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 20:51:22 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Re: mailman and the web (OFFTOPIC) In-Reply-To: Message from Thomas Wouters of "Sun, 18 Mar 2001 02:05:24 +0100." <20010318020524.L29286@xs4all.nl> References: <4.2.2.20010312193934.00d10170@hollyjerry.org> <3AAE55F0.6A8A2F65@greatbridge.com> <4.2.2.20010313091845.00d26e30@hollyjerry.org> <20010315103238.H404@xs4all.nl> <20010316082603.A5616@rix.rixhq.nu> <20010316223948.F29286@xs4all.nl> <20010318002839.C25020@rix.rixhq.nu> <20010318020524.L29286@xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <30904.985063882@kanga.nu> On Sun, 18 Mar 2001 02:05:24 +0100 Thomas Wouters wrote: > It's 'joe', but it could have been (X)Emacs as well :) I haven't > figured out how to teach (X)Emacs about quote characters yet, > though. Look into SuperCite. From my .xemacs: ---- ;;; This last part is for supercite. It does not need to be specifically ;;; tailored to Exmh, but here is my configuration: (autoload 'sc-cite-original "supercite" "Supercite 3.1" t) (setq sc-nested-citation-p t) (setq sc-reference-tag-string "") (setq sc-citation-delimiter ">") (setq sc-citation-leader "") (setq sc-nuke-mail-headers 'all) (setq sc-mail-warn-if-non-rfc822-p nil) (setq sc-citation-leader "") (setq sc-confirm-always-p nil) (defun my-sc-header () (insert sc-reference-tag-string (sc-hdr "On " (sc-mail-field "date") " ") "\n" (sc-hdr "" (sc-mail-field "sc-author") "") (or (sc-hdr " <" (sc-mail-field "sc-from-address") ">" t) (sc-hdr " <" (sc-mail-field "sc-reply-address") ">" t) ) " wrote:\n" ) ) (setq sc-rewrite-header-list '((my-sc-header))) (setq sc-preferred-header-style 0) ---- Its a deliberately lightweight setup (I don't like SuperCite's default quoting pattern using initials). However it works very nicely as regards recognising quoting patterns. -- J C Lawrence claw@kanga.nu ---------(*) http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/ --=| A man is as sane as he is dangerous to his environment |=-- From claw@kanga.nu Tue Mar 20 05:02:26 2001 From: claw@kanga.nu (J C Lawrence) Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 21:02:26 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] mailman and the web In-Reply-To: Message from Ricardo Kustner of "Fri, 16 Mar 2001 08:26:03 +0100." <20010316082603.A5616@rix.rixhq.nu> References: <4.2.2.20010312193934.00d10170@hollyjerry.org> <3AAE55F0.6A8A2F65@greatbridge.com> <4.2.2.20010313091845.00d26e30@hollyjerry.org> <20010315103238.H404@xs4all.nl> <20010316082603.A5616@rix.rixhq.nu> Message-ID: <18622.985064546@kanga.nu> On Fri, 16 Mar 2001 08:26:03 +0100 Ricardo Kustner wrote: > This makes me wonder... is there a mod_python for apache? http://www.modpython.org/ > ps: sorry if my mesage is a bit messy; I have to get used to using > mutt+vi again... I've given up my search for a stable gui mail > client for now (again ;)) Happy exmh user here. Screenshots: ftp://ftp.kanga.nu/pub/users/claw/JCL/Images/Apps/exmh/ Homepage: http://www.beedub.com/exmh/ -- J C Lawrence claw@kanga.nu ---------(*) http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/ --=| A man is as sane as he is dangerous to his environment |=-- From jra@baylink.com Tue Mar 20 05:38:35 2001 From: jra@baylink.com (Jay R. Ashworth) Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 00:38:35 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Wildly OT - qmail and mangling (was: mailman and the web) In-Reply-To: <3480.985062986@kanga.nu>; from J C Lawrence on Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 08:36:26PM -0800 References: <4.2.2.20010312193934.00d10170@hollyjerry.org> <15028.60536.334661.193271@anthem.wooz.org> <4.2.2.20010318121307.00bf8c00@hollyjerry.org> <20010318223354.25893@scfn.thpl.lib.fl.us> <3480.985062986@kanga.nu> Message-ID: <20010320003835.22712@scfn.thpl.lib.fl.us> On Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 08:36:26PM -0800, J C Lawrence wrote: > > Typical djb mistake. > > While he reinvented common practice (a definite DJB-ism) he hardly > violated any standard -- +-addressing is still mostly larval. Really? I've seen it for *years*. > > There's been a defined protocol for that that well predates qmail > > (unless I'm much mistaken); the defined character is a "+". No, > > it's not a formal standard... but it's apparently a widely defined > > informal standard. > > Every MTA I'm aware of that supports +-addressing mandates having > the extension character set as part of the feature configuration. Do that again? I fell off. > I've seen both '-' and '+' commonly used over tha last decade ro so > outside of DJB circles. IIRC the early Sendmail patches for > +-addressing used '-' by default until enough people yelled at Eric > that it was too confusing and tended to screw up their other > scripts. I see. > > Tampa Bay, Florida http://baylink.pitas.com +1 727 804 5015 > > Do Tim et al still do the Weds night/Sunday brunch meets? Oh. Hey, Carnage. I wouldn't begin to know. I've seen Tim once in the last 6 years, at a SLUG meeting. He saw me, and hasn't been going to those meetings since. Don't ask me... Cheers, -- jra -- Jay R. Ashworth jra@baylink.com Member of the Technical Staff Baylink The Suncoast Freenet The Things I Think Tampa Bay, Florida http://baylink.pitas.com +1 727 804 5015 From ricardo@rixhq.nu Tue Mar 20 05:57:26 2001 From: ricardo@rixhq.nu (Ricardo Kustner) Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 06:57:26 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] python 2.0 & mailman In-Reply-To: <7706.985063123@kanga.nu>; from claw@kanga.nu on Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 08:38:43PM -0800 References: <20010318231503.B28367@rix.rixhq.nu> <7706.985063123@kanga.nu> Message-ID: <20010320065726.A1123@rix.rixhq.nu> On Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 08:38:43PM -0800, J C Lawrence wrote: > On Sun, 18 Mar 2001 23:15:03 +0100 > Ricardo Kustner wrote: > > After almost a year of succesfull mailman usage, my server is > > starting to run into performance trouble again (probably due to an > > enormous increase in webtraffic and list subscribers). > What sort of performance troubles? What manifestations? loadaverages going sky-high when I approve a batch of messages on the list. One time the server even stopped responding and I had to travel to the ISP to push the reset button. For now it seems to work considerably ok, since I set postfix to relay all mail to a different server. Sometimes I need to restart postfix, apache and mysqld cause they can't recover by themselves. I think I'm going to buy a new 7200RPM disk since it's time to upgrade the software anyway (running Linux 2.0.38 and libc5 on an ancient slackware install :) still, all the apps are the latest & greatest) -- Regards, Ricardo -- International Janet Jackson fanclub called MISS JANET. For more information write to: Miss Janet. P.O.Box 10016, 1001 EA Amsterdam, The Netherlands Email: fanclub@miss-janet.com Check out our website: http://miss-janet.com From claw@kanga.nu Tue Mar 20 07:51:45 2001 From: claw@kanga.nu (J C Lawrence) Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 23:51:45 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] python 2.0 & mailman In-Reply-To: Message from Ricardo Kustner of "Tue, 20 Mar 2001 06:57:26 +0100." <20010320065726.A1123@rix.rixhq.nu> References: <20010318231503.B28367@rix.rixhq.nu> <7706.985063123@kanga.nu> <20010320065726.A1123@rix.rixhq.nu> Message-ID: <23611.985074705@kanga.nu> On Tue, 20 Mar 2001 06:57:26 +0100 Ricardo Kustner wrote: > On Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 08:38:43PM -0800, J C Lawrence wrote: >> What sort of performance troubles? What manifestations? > loadaverages going sky-high when I approve a batch of messages on > the list. When system load goes high, what does `top` say is hogging the process queue? What version of Mailman? How many lists? How many subscribers on the lists when you approve a message? What hardware? What OS? Local caching name server? NFS? > since I set postfix to relay all mail to a different > server. What is the value of default_destination_concurrency_limit in your postfix config? Is 127.0.0.1/8 specified in mynetworks? > Sometimes I need to restart postfix, apache and mysqld cause they > can't recover by themselves. What do you mean, "recover"? -- J C Lawrence claw@kanga.nu ---------(*) http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/ --=| A man is as sane as he is dangerous to his environment |=-- From darrell@grumblesmurf.net Tue Mar 20 08:11:52 2001 From: darrell@grumblesmurf.net (Darrell Fuhriman) Date: 20 Mar 2001 00:11:52 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Wildly OT - qmail and mangling (was: mailman and the web) In-Reply-To: "Jay R. Ashworth"'s message of "Tue, 20 Mar 2001 00:38:35 -0500" References: <4.2.2.20010312193934.00d10170@hollyjerry.org> <15028.60536.334661.193271@anthem.wooz.org> <4.2.2.20010318121307.00bf8c00@hollyjerry.org> <20010318223354.25893@scfn.thpl.lib.fl.us> <3480.985062986@kanga.nu> <20010320003835.22712@scfn.thpl.lib.fl.us> Message-ID: "Jay R. Ashworth" writes: > > While he reinvented common practice (a definite DJB-ism) he hardly > > violated any standard -- +-addressing is still mostly larval. > > Really? I've seen it for *years*. Ditto. I would also point out that + is much less commonly used in "real" addresses -- such as mailing-lists -- than a dash and thus makes it a better choice for implementing that feature, IMNSHO. Darrell From darrell@grumblesmurf.net Tue Mar 20 08:14:59 2001 From: darrell@grumblesmurf.net (Darrell Fuhriman) Date: 20 Mar 2001 00:14:59 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] python 2.0 & mailman In-Reply-To: Ricardo Kustner's message of "Tue, 20 Mar 2001 06:57:26 +0100" References: <20010318231503.B28367@rix.rixhq.nu> <7706.985063123@kanga.nu> <20010320065726.A1123@rix.rixhq.nu> Message-ID: Ricardo Kustner writes: > loadaverages going sky-high when I approve a batch of messages on the list. If possible, put the locks directory on a tmpfs partition or a ramdisk. Mailman is really hard on its lockfiles, and removing all those disk accesses will probably help. Of course, it does seem that it would be useful to have a 'don't run if the load average is above X' option in qrunner:TNG. Darrell From jra@baylink.com Tue Mar 20 16:15:08 2001 From: jra@baylink.com (Jay R. Ashworth) Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 11:15:08 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Wildly OT - qmail and mangling (was: mailman and the web) In-Reply-To: ; from Darrell Fuhriman on Tue, Mar 20, 2001 at 12:11:52AM -0800 References: <4.2.2.20010312193934.00d10170@hollyjerry.org> <15028.60536.334661.193271@anthem.wooz.org> <4.2.2.20010318121307.00bf8c00@hollyjerry.org> <20010318223354.25893@scfn.thpl.lib.fl.us> <3480.985062986@kanga.nu> <20010320003835.22712@scfn.thpl.lib.fl.us> Message-ID: <20010320111508.46491@scfn.thpl.lib.fl.us> On Tue, Mar 20, 2001 at 12:11:52AM -0800, Darrell Fuhriman wrote: > "Jay R. Ashworth" writes: > > > While he reinvented common practice (a definite DJB-ism) he hardly > > > violated any standard -- +-addressing is still mostly larval. > > > > Really? I've seen it for *years*. > > Ditto. I would also point out that + is much less commonly used > in "real" addresses -- such as mailing-lists -- than a dash and > thus makes it a better choice for implementing that feature, > IMNSHO. Concur, of course; hence the phrasing of my original posting. Cheers, - jra -- Jay R. Ashworth jra@baylink.com Member of the Technical Staff Baylink The Suncoast Freenet The Things I Think Tampa Bay, Florida http://baylink.pitas.com +1 727 804 5015 From chris@greatbridge.com Tue Mar 20 16:32:01 2001 From: chris@greatbridge.com (Chris Ryan) Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 11:32:01 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Mailman + DB: Snag References: <3AB0CC94.A798EDF1@greatbridge.com> Message-ID: <3AB78601.3C438BF5@greatbridge.com> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------57A9CB433680A9C255ED813D Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I worked through the problem (as described below) that I was encountering for the datasource driver stuff. I've attached a patch for your approval to be applied to the current cvs tree that changes the setattr and getattr functions in admin.py to call mlist.getProperty() mlist.setProperty() instead. Also includes the changes to add getProperty and setProperty to MailList.py. These changes will make it possible continue with the datasource driver development without needing and overhaul on the whole admin.py. At this time getProperty and setProperty just call getattr and setattr but when I start integrating the datasource driver code i will change it to an eval/exec of some kind to call the driver interface function instead. Chris Ryan chris@greatbridge.com Chris Ryan wrote: > > As a test I implemented a basic interface driver with mailman that > loaded the config.db and implemented the internalName() and realName() > methods. Everything worked fine which was good except one thing. > > The way the admin.py update the attributes does not work with the > interface driver. I'm trying to find a reasonable solution that would > allow the current code to work as it stands without having to overhaul > the entire web interface update code. > > One possible solution that I can think of is to replace the getattr() > setattr() methods that are currently used with a similar function that > would instead use a switched case on the variable to know which > attribute the get/set. > > for example: > > Current method: > property = 'real_name' > value = getattr(mlist,property,'some default') > > setattr(mlist,property, value) > > New method (concept): > > property = 'real_name' > value = mlist.getProperty(property,'some default') > > mlist.setProperty(property, value) > > def MailList.getProperty(self, property, default=None) > if property == 'real_name': > return self.list_data.realName() > elif property == '...': > elif property == '...': > else: > if default: > return default > else: > raise AttributeError > > I'll have to look through the python documentation to see if there is a > way to dynamically call a method as that would further simplify the > above. Does this sound reasonable? Or is there a better way to deal with > this problem? > > Chris Ryan > chris@greatbridge.org > > _______________________________________________ > Mailman-Developers mailing list > Mailman-Developers@python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers --------------57A9CB433680A9C255ED813D Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; name="getsetmod.diff" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline; filename="getsetmod.diff" Index: Mailman/MailList.py =================================================================== RCS file: /cvsroot/mailman/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py,v retrieving revision 2.9 diff -r2.9 MailList.py 1404a1405,1412 > > def setProperty(self,property, value): > setattr(self,property,value) > > def getProperty(self,property,default=None): > if default is None: > return getattr(self,property) > return getattr(self,property,default) Index: Mailman/Cgi/admin.py =================================================================== RCS file: /cvsroot/mailman/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/admin.py,v retrieving revision 2.10 diff -r2.10 admin.py 516c516 < checked = getattr(mlist, varname) --- > checked = mlist.getProperty(varname) 522c522 < return TextBox(varname, getattr(mlist, varname), params) --- > return TextBox(varname, mlist.getProperty(varname), params) 528c528 < val = getattr(mlist, varname) --- > val = mlist.getProperty(varname) 537c537 < res = NL.join(getattr(mlist, varname)) --- > res = NL.join(mlist.getProperty(varname)) 545c545 < val = getattr(mlist, varname) --- > val = mlist.getProperty(varname) 787c787 < return getattr(mlist, prop) --- > return mlist.getProperty(prop) 811c811 < return getattr(mlist, prop) --- > return mlist.getProperty(prop) 892c892 < elif getattr(mlist, property) <> value: --- > elif mlist.getProperty(property) <> value: 908c908 < setattr(mlist, property, value) --- > mlist.setProperty(property, value) --------------57A9CB433680A9C255ED813D-- From ricardo@rixhq.nu Tue Mar 20 21:40:12 2001 From: ricardo@rixhq.nu (Ricardo Kustner) Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 22:40:12 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Mailman + DB: Snag In-Reply-To: <3AB78601.3C438BF5@greatbridge.com>; from chris@greatbridge.com on Tue, Mar 20, 2001 at 11:32:01AM -0500 References: <3AB0CC94.A798EDF1@greatbridge.com> <3AB78601.3C438BF5@greatbridge.com> Message-ID: <20010320224012.D3390@rix.rixhq.nu> On Tue, Mar 20, 2001 at 11:32:01AM -0500, Chris Ryan wrote: > I worked through the problem (as described below) that I was > encountering for the datasource driver stuff. I've attached a patch for > your approval to be applied to the current cvs tree that changes the > setattr and getattr functions in admin.py to call mlist.getProperty() > mlist.setProperty() instead. Also includes the changes to add > getProperty and setProperty to MailList.py. These changes will make it > possible continue with the datasource driver development without needing > and overhaul on the whole admin.py. Even though Barry can answer for himself, I know what his answer will probably be (partly) :) please upload the patch to sourceforge.net, so he can find it back easily... -- Regards, Ricardo From thomas@xs4all.net Wed Mar 21 15:27:34 2001 From: thomas@xs4all.net (Thomas Wouters) Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 16:27:34 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Mailman + DB: Snag In-Reply-To: <20010320224012.D3390@rix.rixhq.nu>; from ricardo@rixhq.nu on Tue, Mar 20, 2001 at 10:40:12PM +0100 References: <3AB0CC94.A798EDF1@greatbridge.com> <3AB78601.3C438BF5@greatbridge.com> <20010320224012.D3390@rix.rixhq.nu> Message-ID: <20010321162734.S29286@xs4all.nl> On Tue, Mar 20, 2001 at 10:40:12PM +0100, Ricardo Kustner wrote: > On Tue, Mar 20, 2001 at 11:32:01AM -0500, Chris Ryan wrote: > > I worked through the problem (as described below) that I was > > encountering for the datasource driver stuff. I've attached a patch for > > your approval to be applied to the current cvs tree that changes the > > setattr and getattr functions in admin.py to call mlist.getProperty() > > mlist.setProperty() instead. Also includes the changes to add > > getProperty and setProperty to MailList.py. These changes will make it > > possible continue with the datasource driver development without needing > > and overhaul on the whole admin.py. > Even though Barry can answer for himself, I know what his answer will probably > be (partly) :) please upload the patch to sourceforge.net, so he > can find it back easily... And upload it as a context or unified diff, please. (use diff -c or diff -u. I prefer -c myself, and Barry should too ;) -- Thomas Wouters Hi! I'm a .signature virus! copy me into your .signature file to help me spread! From chris@greatbridge.com Wed Mar 21 15:58:03 2001 From: chris@greatbridge.com (Chris Ryan) Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 10:58:03 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Mailman + DB: Snag References: <3AB0CC94.A798EDF1@greatbridge.com> <3AB78601.3C438BF5@greatbridge.com> <20010320224012.D3390@rix.rixhq.nu> <20010321162734.S29286@xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <3AB8CF8B.C7D69840@greatbridge.com> I have uploaded the patch on to Sourceforge.net as requested and in context format. Thanks for the heads up and info on these. Chris Ryan chris@greatbridge.com Thomas Wouters wrote: > > On Tue, Mar 20, 2001 at 10:40:12PM +0100, Ricardo Kustner wrote: > > On Tue, Mar 20, 2001 at 11:32:01AM -0500, Chris Ryan wrote: > > > I worked through the problem (as described below) that I was > > > encountering for the datasource driver stuff. I've attached a patch for > > > your approval to be applied to the current cvs tree that changes the > > > setattr and getattr functions in admin.py to call mlist.getProperty() > > > mlist.setProperty() instead. Also includes the changes to add > > > getProperty and setProperty to MailList.py. These changes will make it > > > possible continue with the datasource driver development without needing > > > and overhaul on the whole admin.py. > > > Even though Barry can answer for himself, I know what his answer will probably > > be (partly) :) please upload the patch to sourceforge.net, so he > > can find it back easily... > > And upload it as a context or unified diff, please. (use diff -c or diff -u. > I prefer -c myself, and Barry should too ;) > > -- > Thomas Wouters > > Hi! I'm a .signature virus! copy me into your .signature file to help me spread! From claw@kanga.nu Wed Mar 21 20:01:14 2001 From: claw@kanga.nu (J C Lawrence) Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 12:01:14 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Wildly OT - qmail and mangling (was: mailman and the web) In-Reply-To: Message from "Jay R. Ashworth" of "Tue, 20 Mar 2001 00:38:35 EST." <20010320003835.22712@scfn.thpl.lib.fl.us> References: <4.2.2.20010312193934.00d10170@hollyjerry.org> <15028.60536.334661.193271@anthem.wooz.org> <4.2.2.20010318121307.00bf8c00@hollyjerry.org> <20010318223354.25893@scfn.thpl.lib.fl.us> <3480.985062986@kanga.nu> <20010320003835.22712@scfn.thpl.lib.fl.us> Message-ID: <2684.985204874@kanga.nu> On Tue, 20 Mar 2001 00:38:35 -0500 Jay R Ashworth wrote: > On Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 08:36:26PM -0800, J C Lawrence wrote: >> > Typical djb mistake. >> >> While he reinvented common practice (a definite DJB-ism) he >> hardly violated any standard -- +-addressing is still mostly >> larval. > Really? I've seen it for *years*. Similarly. Its penetration in terms of actual use has been damned small to near non-existant up until about 15 months ago however. Thus, on account of lacking critical mass, I account it larval. >> Every MTA I'm aware of that supports +-addressing mandates having >> the extension character set as part of the feature configuration. > Do that again? I fell off. 1) There are MTAs which either directly or through patch support what I'll loosely call +-addressing. 2) For each of those MTAs configuring +-addressing requires that you explicitly define the character to be used in segmenting the address. 3) None of these MTAs per se has a default +-addressing character from which the config may specify a deviation. Instead, the +-addressing character must be explicitly stated as part of the feature enebling. >> I've seen both '-' and '+' commonly used over tha last decade ro >> so outside of DJB circles. IIRC the early Sendmail patches for >> +-addressing used '-' by default until enough people yelled at >> Eric that it was too confusing and tended to screw up their other >> scripts. > I see. Quite. >>> Tampa Bay, Florida http://baylink.pitas.com +1 727 804 5015 >> >> Do Tim et al still do the Weds night/Sunday brunch meets? > Oh. Hey, Carnage. I wouldn't begin to know. I've seen Tim once > in the last 6 years, at a SLUG meeting. He saw me, and hasn't > been going to those meetings since. I heard rumours for a while (semi-regularly exchange mail with Wilson and a couple old messages with Beach). I ran into Tim via email a few years back ('98?) who AIR wrote something quite ambiguous and then didn't reply further. I haven't been back to FL since 97 -- am a little curious. -- J C Lawrence claw@kanga.nu ---------(*) http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/ --=| A man is as sane as he is dangerous to his environment |=-- From larryr@linux.com Thu Mar 22 03:19:41 2001 From: larryr@linux.com (Larry Reckner) Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 22:19:41 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Easily customisable webmin templating Message-ID: Hello: I've seen this touced upon while searching through the various mailing lists for mailman, however I don't know if I've seen a solution (if so, plesae point me in the right direction and I'll be more than happy to run with that). Anyway, my situation is that I sysadmin for a web hosting company and one of the things that we do is provide shared services like email and now lists. I've written a small wrapper that will take care of the /etc/aliases part of setting up mailman for multiple virtual domains as well as the httpd.conf file, the mailman specific configs and so on. The part I'm stuck on is this. Basically, my web developers want to be able to customize the webmin interface on an individual client-by-client basis (by any means possible be it stylesheets, xml, etc) but they are finding it very difficult because of the heavy python integration and the outside scripts that re-write headers, footers, etc. I'm trying to learn python in order to deal with their request to make this easy to do, however I'm under severe pressure to get it done yesterday, and I could use some help. I've looked into ht2html to do this, but I fear that it's not quite working like I'd like. Any advice/tips/etc would be *extremely* appreciated and I'd be grateful. Thanks, --Larry ----- Larry Reckner larry@5points.net Systems Administrator Voice: 518.465.5505 5points.net LLC Cell: 518.852.2944 Linux.com Tuneup Author larryr@linux.com From barry@digicool.com Thu Mar 22 03:39:01 2001 From: barry@digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw) Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 22:39:01 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] List of list admins References: <3A407B35.C7A1DD00@uma.es> Message-ID: <15033.29653.886924.249826@anthem.wooz.org> Juan Carlos, I like this! I'm going to add it to the Mailman 2.1 tree (with a few modifications). Thanks! -Barry From jra@baylink.com Thu Mar 22 15:49:34 2001 From: jra@baylink.com (Jay R. Ashworth) Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 10:49:34 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Wildly OT - qmail and mangling (was: mailman and the web) In-Reply-To: <2684.985204874@kanga.nu>; from J C Lawrence on Wed, Mar 21, 2001 at 12:01:14PM -0800 References: <4.2.2.20010312193934.00d10170@hollyjerry.org> <15028.60536.334661.193271@anthem.wooz.org> <4.2.2.20010318121307.00bf8c00@hollyjerry.org> <20010318223354.25893@scfn.thpl.lib.fl.us> <3480.985062986@kanga.nu> <20010320003835.22712@scfn.thpl.lib.fl.us> <2684.985204874@kanga.nu> Message-ID: <20010322104934.11141@scfn.thpl.lib.fl.us> On Wed, Mar 21, 2001 at 12:01:14PM -0800, J C Lawrence wrote: > >> While he reinvented common practice (a definite DJB-ism) he > >> hardly violated any standard -- +-addressing is still mostly > >> larval. > > > Really? I've seen it for *years*. > > Similarly. Its penetration in terms of actual use has been damned > small to near non-existant up until about 15 months ago however. > Thus, on account of lacking critical mass, I account it larval. Huh. I guess I hang out on geekier mailing lists than the average bear... > >> Every MTA I'm aware of that supports +-addressing mandates having > >> the extension character set as part of the feature configuration. > > > Do that again? I fell off. > > 1) There are MTAs which either directly or through patch support > what I'll loosely call +-addressing. > > 2) For each of those MTAs configuring +-addressing requires that you > explicitly define the character to be used in segmenting the > address. > > 3) None of these MTAs per se has a default +-addressing character > from which the config may specify a deviation. Instead, the > +-addressing character must be explicitly stated as part of the > feature enebling. Ah. I *had* thought it was standard in sendmail; I'll have to go doube check that. > > Oh. Hey, Carnage. I wouldn't begin to know. I've seen Tim once > > in the last 6 years, at a SLUG meeting. He saw me, and hasn't > > been going to those meetings since. > > I heard rumours for a while (semi-regularly exchange mail with > Wilson and a couple old messages with Beach). I ran into Tim via > email a few years back ('98?) who AIR wrote something quite > ambiguous and then didn't reply further. I haven't been back to FL > since 97 -- am a little curious. Nope; don't regularly see any of that crowd anymore... Cheers, -- jra -- Jay R. Ashworth jra@baylink.com Member of the Technical Staff Baylink The Suncoast Freenet The Things I Think Tampa Bay, Florida http://baylink.pitas.com +1 727 804 5015 From efernandezor@antena3tv.es Fri Mar 23 12:21:04 2001 From: efernandezor@antena3tv.es (efernandezor@antena3tv.es) Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 13:21:04 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Server's list change Message-ID: Hi again. Sorry, I want to know how change one list of machine, but I don't want to put all users again. I want to change the list and the list's users at time. Do you know ?? Thanks very much. From tollef@add.no Sat Mar 24 00:18:00 2001 From: tollef@add.no (Tollef Fog Heen) Date: 24 Mar 2001 01:18:00 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Patch for making digest_arch a bit less stupid Message-ID: <874rwkf29z.fsf@arabella.intern.opera.no> I am applying the following patch to the debian package of mailman unless somebody screams loudly. It will close debian bug #59359 ( http://www.debian.org/59359 ). --- bin/digest_arch~ Tue Mar 21 07:26:18 2000 +++ bin/digest_arch Sat Mar 24 01:14:51 2001 @@ -90,7 +90,7 @@ last_dow = days_of_week.index(dow) if len(year) == 2: - year = '19' + year + year = 1900 + year # some MUAs are stupid outfile.write("From %s %s %s %s %s %s\n" % (From, dow, mon, day, time, year)) # print "From %s %s %s %s %s %s" % (From, dow, mon, day, time, year) -- Tollef Fog Heen Unix _IS_ user friendly... It's just selective about who its friends are. From ckgrimm@qx.net Sat Mar 24 02:20:40 2001 From: ckgrimm@qx.net (Clifton Grimm) Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 21:20:40 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] sending mail has wrong domain Message-ID: <4.2.2.20010323211059.013f35e8@mail.qx.net> Hello all - I have tried to do everything I can think of to fix this one, so I throw it out to you all... I have a machine running RH7 and sendmail (default install). I have 2 domain names assoc. with the box: let's say: foo.com and bar.com foo.com is the hostname I used to setup the box - and there are users with email accounts on foo.com that can use the system no problem, POP and locally - all mail is delivered fine, and all headers are correct. bar.com is a virtual host - the machine responds to it, apache is setup to listen to it, and sendmail responds just fine as well. I have a list on bar.com, setup in its own directory, and the list@bar.com list delivers mail to its recipients with no problem. BUT: list@bar.com sends mail that has headers saying the sender is list-admin@foo.com. If an admin request goes thru, the from is list-request@foo.com. If I look into the headers, I see that the sendmail requests were initiated by mailman (which is correct) but at foo.com, not at bar.com. I think this may have something to do with those headers getting written incorrectly. I had a VERY similar setup on a RH6 system (actually the same box before the catastrophic HD crash) and it delivered mail with no incorrect headers. I just can't seem to remember what was different about my setup. In summation: 2 domains, list mail gets delivered as wrong domain sender - right user alias, wrong domain. Hmmm. Help? Thanks in advance. Clifton Grimm ckgrimm@qx.net From ckgrimm@qx.net Sat Mar 24 04:02:27 2001 From: ckgrimm@qx.net (Clifton Grimm) Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 23:02:27 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] sending mail has wrong domain - FIXED Message-ID: <4.2.2.20010323225431.013c9350@mail.qx.net> Hello all Well, never mind. :) I have solved my problem with just about 2 hours work - For those who are interested on how to fix this problem: 1. Read suggestions at list.org 2. Uninstall sendmail 3. Read instructions for postfix 4. Download and install postfix 5. Migrate virtual hosts 6. Have a restful night. I have been fighting sendmail for 2 weeks now...and in 2 hours, I'm happy and done. RTFM for sure.... Clifton Grimm From barry@digicool.com Sat Mar 24 05:11:13 2001 From: barry@digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw) Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2001 00:11:13 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Patch for making digest_arch a bit less stupid References: <874rwkf29z.fsf@arabella.intern.opera.no> Message-ID: <15036.11377.920364.210833@anthem.wooz.org> >>>>> "TFH" == Tollef Fog Heen writes: TFH> I am applying the following patch to the debian package of TFH> mailman unless somebody screams loudly. It will close debian TFH> bug #59359 ( http://www.debian.org/59359 ). Tollef, do you have a working URL for that? It comes up "not found" for me. | --- bin/digest_arch~ Tue Mar 21 07:26:18 2000 | +++ bin/digest_arch Sat Mar 24 01:14:51 2001 | @@ -90,7 +90,7 @@ | last_dow = days_of_week.index(dow) | if len(year) == 2: | - year = '19' + year | + year = 1900 + year # some MUAs are stupid I'd like to know what it fixes, but you should be aware that bin/digest_arch is quite unmaintained. If you find it useful and that patch makes sense, I'll integrate it with the current CVS tree. I've never personally made any substantive change to that file. -Barry From tollef@add.no Sat Mar 24 01:58:14 2001 From: tollef@add.no (Tollef Fog Heen) Date: 24 Mar 2001 02:58:14 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Per-user monthly password reminders [Patch] Message-ID: <87r8zoc4i1.fsf@arabella.intern.opera.no> This is a patch against 2.0.3 to enable per-user monthly password reminders. This is a _very_ sought-after feature request from the Debian community. :) As I don't have CVS access, I'd appreciate if somebody could review and apply. Thanks. :) --- mailman-2.0.3.orig/Mailman/Defaults.py.in +++ mailman-2.0.3/Mailman/Defaults.py.in @@ -531,6 +531,7 @@ AcknowledgePosts = 4 DisableMime = 8 # Digesters only ConcealSubscription = 16 +PasswordReminder = 32 # Useful directories LIST_DATA_DIR = os.path.join(VAR_PREFIX, 'lists') --- mailman-2.0.3.orig/Mailman/Cgi/options.py +++ mailman-2.0.3/Mailman/Cgi/options.py @@ -113,6 +113,11 @@ 'setdigest', 'Submit My Changes') replacements[''] = ( mlist.FormatButton('unsub', 'Unsubscribe')) + replacements[''] = mlist.FormatOptionButton( + mm_cfg.PasswordReminder, 1, user) + replacements[''] = mlist.FormatOptionButton( + mm_cfg.PasswordReminder, 0, user) + replacements[''] = mlist.FormatSecureBox('digpw') replacements[''] = mlist.FormatSecureBox('upw') replacements[''] = mlist.FormatSecureBox('opw') --- mailman-2.0.3.orig/Mailman/Cgi/handle_opts.py +++ mailman-2.0.3/Mailman/Cgi/handle_opts.py @@ -222,6 +222,7 @@ dont_receive = getval('dontreceive', useropt(user, mm_cfg.DontReceiveOwnPosts)) ack_posts = getval('ackposts', useropt(user, mm_cfg.AcknowledgePosts)) + remind_pass = getval('remindpass', useropt(user, mm_cfg.PasswordReminder)) disable_mail = getval('disablemail', useropt(user, mm_cfg.DisableDelivery)) conceal = getval('conceal', useropt(user, mm_cfg.ConcealSubscription)) @@ -260,6 +261,7 @@ mlist.SetUserOption(user, mm_cfg.DisableDelivery, disable_mail) mlist.SetUserOption(user, mm_cfg.DontReceiveOwnPosts, dont_receive) mlist.SetUserOption(user, mm_cfg.AcknowledgePosts, ack_posts) + mlist.SetUserOption(user, mm_cfg.PasswordReminder, remind_pass) mlist.SetUserOption(user, mm_cfg.DisableMime, mime) msg = 'You have successfully set your options.' try: --- mailman-2.0.3.orig/Mailman/HTMLFormatter.py +++ mailman-2.0.3/Mailman/HTMLFormatter.py @@ -120,7 +120,8 @@ mm_cfg.DisableMime : "mime", mm_cfg.AcknowledgePosts : "ackposts", mm_cfg.Digests : "digest", - mm_cfg.ConcealSubscription : "conceal" + mm_cfg.ConcealSubscription : "conceal", + mm_cfg.PasswordReminder : "remindpass", }[type] import sys return ('' --- mailman-2.0.3.orig/templates/options.html +++ mailman-2.0.3/templates/options.html @@ -139,6 +139,11 @@ Yes

                  + Get monthly password reminders?
                  + Yes + No

                  + + Password:

                  -- Tollef Fog Heen Unix _IS_ user friendly... It's just selective about who its friends are. From tollef@add.no Sat Mar 24 09:50:59 2001 From: tollef@add.no (Tollef Fog Heen) Date: 24 Mar 2001 10:50:59 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Patch for making digest_arch a bit less stupid In-Reply-To: <15036.11377.920364.210833@anthem.wooz.org> References: <874rwkf29z.fsf@arabella.intern.opera.no> <15036.11377.920364.210833@anthem.wooz.org> Message-ID: <87itkzcx6k.fsf@arabella.intern.opera.no> * (Barry A. Warsaw) | >>>>> "TFH" == Tollef Fog Heen writes: | | TFH> I am applying the following patch to the debian package of | TFH> mailman unless somebody screams loudly. It will close debian | TFH> bug #59359 ( http://www.debian.org/59359 ). | | Tollef, do you have a working URL for that? It comes up "not found" | for me. s/www/bugs/ sorry - a bit late in the evening. | | --- bin/digest_arch~ Tue Mar 21 07:26:18 2000 | | +++ bin/digest_arch Sat Mar 24 01:14:51 2001 | | @@ -90,7 +90,7 @@ | | last_dow = days_of_week.index(dow) | | | if len(year) == 2: | | - year = '19' + year | | + year = 1900 + year # some MUAs are stupid | | I'd like to know what it fixes, but you should be aware that | bin/digest_arch is quite unmaintained. If you find it useful and that | patch makes sense, I'll integrate it with the current CVS tree. I've | never personally made any substantive change to that file. I don't use it, but I have a bug report about "mailman archiver not handling years like '100'". And the patch needs a fix :/ --- bin/digest_arch~ Tue Mar 21 07:26:18 2000 +++ bin/digest_arch Sat Mar 24 01:14:51 2001 @@ -90,7 +90,7 @@ last_dow = days_of_week.index(dow) if len(year) == 2: - year = '19' + year + year = 1900 + int(year) # some MUAs are stupid and the line outfile.write("From %s %s %s %s %s %s\n" % (From, dow, mon, day, time, year)) needs to be changed to outfile.write("From %s %s %s %s %s %4d\n" % (From, dow, mon, day, time, year)) . If this isn't used at all any more, I'll just close the bug report, and you can ignore this patch. -- Tollef Fog Heen Unix _IS_ user friendly... It's just selective about who its friends are. From barry@digicool.com Mon Mar 26 00:03:24 2001 From: barry@digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw) Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2001 19:03:24 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Patch for making digest_arch a bit less stupid References: <874rwkf29z.fsf@arabella.intern.opera.no> <15036.11377.920364.210833@anthem.wooz.org> <87itkzcx6k.fsf@arabella.intern.opera.no> Message-ID: <15038.34636.687217.769121@anthem.wooz.org> >>>>> "TFH" == Tollef Fog Heen writes: TFH> I don't use it, but I have a bug report about "mailman TFH> archiver not handling years like '100'". TFH> And the patch needs a fix :/ | --- bin/digest_arch~ Tue Mar 21 07:26:18 2000 | +++ bin/digest_arch Sat Mar 24 01:14:51 2001 | @@ -90,7 +90,7 @@ | last_dow = days_of_week.index(dow) | if len(year) == 2: | - year = '19' + year | + year = 1900 + int(year) # some MUAs are stupid TFH> If this isn't used at all any more, I'll just close the bug TFH> report, and you can ignore this patch. I've applied the patch, but not tested it, since digest_arch is deprecated. You can go ahead and close the debian bug. Other than this, Mailman 2.x's archiver should handle dates < 100 "properly". Thanks, -Barry From matthewa@Physics.usyd.edu.au Wed Mar 28 12:55:48 2001 From: matthewa@Physics.usyd.edu.au (Matthew Arnison) Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 22:55:48 +1000 (EST) Subject: [Mailman-Developers] feature request: list activity indicators Message-ID: hi folks i think a great feature for mailman would be some indication of how busy a list on the web page showing all the lists. (e.g. this page: http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo) e.g. 15 messages a day, or 3 messages a week, or 2 messages a month (averaged over the past month) this would listed as a new column between the name of the list and the one-line description. i don't know anything about the internals of mailman, but i think it would be really useful info for people to know. cheers, matthew. From thomas@xs4all.net Wed Mar 28 13:18:38 2001 From: thomas@xs4all.net (Thomas Wouters) Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 15:18:38 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Per-user monthly password reminders [Patch] In-Reply-To: <87r8zoc4i1.fsf@arabella.intern.opera.no>; from tollef@add.no on Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 02:58:14AM +0100 References: <87r8zoc4i1.fsf@arabella.intern.opera.no> Message-ID: <20010328151838.H13066@xs4all.nl> On Sat, Mar 24, 2001 at 02:58:14AM +0100, Tollef Fog Heen wrote: > This is a patch against 2.0.3 to enable per-user monthly password > reminders. This is a _very_ sought-after feature request from the > Debian community. :) > As I don't have CVS access, I'd appreciate if somebody could review > and apply. Thanks. :) Hm, I'm personaly against adding more user-specific options per-list, but I guess this one could be list-specific anyway, even after we get a real user-database. I guess it's up to Barry ;) As for the patch, I suggest you upload it to Sourceforge, which is where Mailman is hosed. Submit enough sensible patches and you might get CVS write access, eventually ;) -- Thomas Wouters Hi! I'm a .signature virus! copy me into your .signature file to help me spread! From thomas@xs4all.net Wed Mar 28 13:24:08 2001 From: thomas@xs4all.net (Thomas Wouters) Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 15:24:08 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Per-user monthly password reminders [Patch] In-Reply-To: <20010328151838.H13066@xs4all.nl>; from thomas@xs4all.net on Wed, Mar 28, 2001 at 03:18:38PM +0200 References: <87r8zoc4i1.fsf@arabella.intern.opera.no> <20010328151838.H13066@xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <20010328152408.I13066@xs4all.nl> On Wed, Mar 28, 2001 at 03:18:38PM +0200, Thomas Wouters wrote: > I suggest you upload it to Sourceforge, which is where Mailman is hosed. What a wicked, wicked typo! I meant to say 'hosted'. Really I did! -- Thomas Wouters Hi! I'm a .signature virus! copy me into your .signature file to help me spread! From barry@digicool.com Wed Mar 28 16:08:44 2001 From: barry@digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw) Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 11:08:44 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Per-user monthly password reminders [Patch] References: <87r8zoc4i1.fsf@arabella.intern.opera.no> <20010328151838.H13066@xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <15042.3212.427064.776123@anthem.wooz.org> >>>>> "TW" == Thomas Wouters writes: TW> As for the patch, I suggest you upload it to Sourceforge, TW> which is where Mailman is hosed. ----------------------------------^^^^^ Freudian slip, eh Thomas? :) From ptimmons@courriel.polymtl.ca Wed Mar 28 23:26:09 2001 From: ptimmons@courriel.polymtl.ca (Patrick Timmons) Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 18:26:09 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Problem with mailman-2.1a1, syntax error in bin/update : print >> sys.stderr ... Message-ID: <3AC27311.693808D@courriel.polymtl.ca> Hi. This is the error I get when I try to do a ./configure of mailman-2.1a1: Compiling /home/mailm21/Mailman/versions.py ... File "bin/update", line 81 print >> sys.stderr, 'Fixing language templates:', mlist.internal_name() ^ SyntaxError: invalid syntax File "bin/check_perms", line 96 arg.ERRORS += 1 ^ SyntaxError: invalid syntax I tried with python 2.0 and python 2.1b1 and same result. Here is how I made python 2.0: ./configure make make test make altinstall I installed mimelib 0.2 downloaded over the weekend: python2.0 setup.py install And verified the install as per the doc I tried to install mailman-2.1a1 (downloaded today) with: ./configure --prefix=/home/mailm21 --with-username=mailm21 --with-groupname=mailm21 --with-python=/usr/local/bin/python2.0 --with-mail-gid=daemon I tried with and without PYTHONPATH=/usr/local/lib/python2.0 I'm on Linux. -- Patrick Timmons, service informatique From barry@digicool.com Thu Mar 29 02:45:08 2001 From: barry@digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw) Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 21:45:08 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Problem with mailman-2.1a1, syntax error in bin/update : print >> sys.stderr ... References: <3AC27311.693808D@courriel.polymtl.ca> Message-ID: <15042.41396.797377.993500@anthem.wooz.org> >>>>> "PT" == Patrick Timmons writes: PT> I tried with python 2.0 and python 2.1b1 and same result. PT> Here is how I made python 2.0: | ./configure | make | make test | make altinstall I'm not even sure what "make altinstall" does. ;) These error sure point to Mailman finding an earlier version of Python than 2.0. -Barry From barry@digicool.com Thu Mar 29 04:15:36 2001 From: barry@digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw) Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 23:15:36 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Headers and footers for MIME messages Message-ID: <15042.46824.976889.309145@anthem.wooz.org> I've got a bit of a dilemma that I'd like to get your opinion on. In MM2.1, I can be more sane about adding headers and footers to messages that flow through a list, especially when it comes to MIME messages. Here are the cases I've identified: 1. A message comes in that is either text/plain or has no Content-Type. In that case, I can just textually prepend any header and append any footer. This is essentially what MM2.0.x does for all messages. 2. A message comes in that's multipart/mixed. That's easy too, since we can just add the header and footers as additional text/plain subparts. 3. A message comes in that has some other main Content-Type than "multipart", e.g. image/gif. This is a little tricker, but what I think you can do is transform the container message into a multipart/mixed, add the header and footers as subparts, and create a new subpart for the original message payload. You'd need to copy the body of the original message, plus any Content-* headers, into the subpart, but I think you leave all other headers in the container alone. 4. A message comes in that is multipart/* but not multipart/mixed. What to do here? I suppose we could play the same trick as #3, but it seems like an awful lot of work and potentially error prone. Maybe not though. Alternatively, we could add the header and footer to any existing preamble and epilogue, although they'll get hidden by most MIME-aware MUAs. Or we could simply not add headers and footers for #3 and/or #4. Let's assume for the moment that MM2.1 will have facilities to hold, discard, chop apart, etc. MIME messages and that we're talking about messages that are allowed to go though the list untouched. Any other suggestions? Any preferences? -Barry From csf@moscow.com Thu Mar 29 05:04:55 2001 From: csf@moscow.com (Michael Yount) Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 21:04:55 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Headers and footers for MIME messages In-Reply-To: <15042.46824.976889.309145@anthem.wooz.org>; from barry@digicool.com on Wed, Mar 28, 2001 at 11:15:36PM -0500 References: <15042.46824.976889.309145@anthem.wooz.org> Message-ID: <20010328210455.A482@moscow.com> On 28 Mar 23:15, Barry A. Warsaw wrote: > 2. A message comes in that's multipart/mixed. That's easy too, since > we can just add the header and footers as additional text/plain > subparts. If the first body part is text/plain, would you prefer to add the header or footer directly to it, instead of using separate parts? Michael > > Any other suggestions? Any preferences? > -Barry > > _______________________________________________ > Mailman-Developers mailing list > Mailman-Developers@python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers > > From barry@digicool.com Thu Mar 29 05:02:05 2001 From: barry@digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw) Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2001 00:02:05 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Headers and footers for MIME messages References: <15042.46824.976889.309145@anthem.wooz.org> <20010328210455.A482@moscow.com> Message-ID: <15042.49613.796959.347610@anthem.wooz.org> >>>>> "MY" == Michael Yount writes: >> On 28 Mar 23:15, Barry A. Warsaw wrote: >> 2. A message comes in that's multipart/mixed. That's easy too, >> since we can just add the header and footers as additional >> text/plain subparts. MY> If the first body part is text/plain, would you prefer to add MY> the header or footer directly to it, instead of using separate MY> parts? I don't know. I'm a bit loathe to drill down too far into the subparts, but just because I think it'll make the algorithm for searching where to add the headers/footers more complicated than it needs to be. -Barry From tollef@add.no Thu Mar 29 13:44:45 2001 From: tollef@add.no (Tollef Fog Heen) Date: 29 Mar 2001 15:44:45 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Per-user monthly password reminders [Patch] In-Reply-To: <20010328151838.H13066@xs4all.nl> References: <87r8zoc4i1.fsf@arabella.intern.opera.no> <20010328151838.H13066@xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <87ofukwuya.fsf@arabella.intern.opera.no> * Thomas Wouters | Hm, I'm personaly against adding more user-specific options per-list, but I | guess this one could be list-specific anyway, even after we get a real | user-database. I guess it's up to Barry ;) Pretty please with sugar on top? :-) | As for the patch, I suggest you upload it to Sourceforge, which is where | Mailman is hosed. ^^^^^ *cough* done. :) -- Tollef Fog Heen Unix _IS_ user friendly... It's just selective about who its friends are. From scott-brown@home.com Thu Mar 29 23:04:04 2001 From: scott-brown@home.com (Scott Brown) Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2001 18:04:04 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] I seem to have found a bug.... In-Reply-To: <87ofukwuya.fsf@arabella.intern.opera.no> Message-ID: <008901c0b8a4$8d893260$0401a8c0@ibmpeers> admin(11159): [----- Mailman Version: 2.0.1 -----] admin(11159): [----- Traceback ------] admin(11159): Traceback (most recent call last): admin(11159): File "/home/mailman/scripts/driver", line 96, in run_main admin(11159): main() admin(11159): File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/handle_opts.py", line 73, in main admin(11159): process_form(mlist, user, doc) admin(11159): File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/handle_opts.py", line 100, in process_form admin(11159): mlist.DeleteMember(user, "web cmd") admin(11159): File "/home/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 1182, in DeleteMember admin(11159): self.ClearBounceInfo(name) admin(11159): File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Bouncer.py", line 86, in ClearBounceInfo admin(11159): if self.bounce_info.has_key(email): admin(11159): AttributeError: 'tuple' object has no attribute 'has_key' I ran into this when I was trying to unsub a member (I unchecked his checkbox), and add a new address at the same time (yes, I was changing a member's email address ;-) I've sub'ed it to sourceforge, but it was misbehaving at the time (php errors on and off...), so I'm not sure it "took" FYI From andrewm@connect.com.au Fri Mar 30 02:20:05 2001 From: andrewm@connect.com.au (Andrew McNamara) Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2001 12:20:05 +1000 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Headers and footers for MIME messages In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 28 Mar 2001 23:15:36 EST." <15042.46824.976889.309145@anthem.wooz.org> Message-ID: <20010330022005.4687128593@wawura.off.connect.com.au> >3. A message comes in that has some other main Content-Type than > "multipart", e.g. image/gif. This is a little tricker, but what I > think you can do is transform the container message into a > multipart/mixed, add the header and footers as subparts, and create > a new subpart for the original message payload. You'd need to copy > the body of the original message, plus any Content-* headers, into > the subpart, but I think you leave all other headers in the > container alone. I'd consider it slight offensive to send random binary objects to a mailing list without any lead-in text/plain explanation, but I can imagine a special purpose list that would want to do this (but would they want headers and footers attached?). A straight text/html message is probably the most common problem case - the swiss-army-knife of list software would probably have the header and footer as html, and convert to text/plain when necessary (yuk). There are another of other options people will ask for: convert text/html to text/plain, bounce text/html back to sender, etc. You may think this is well outside the scope of what you were intending to implement, but the worm-can has been opened by adding mime support and people won't let you rest until your software makes breakfast in bed for them. You'll soon end up with a complex language for specifying things like "accept binary attachments only if preceeded by a text/plain", etc.. 8-) BTW, I think there's a special mime type for headers and footers - text/plain isn't the right one. Can't remember off the top of my head. >4. A message comes in that is multipart/* but not multipart/mixed. > What to do here? I suppose we could play the same trick as > #3, but it seems like an awful lot of work and potentially error > prone. Maybe not though. Alternatively, we could add the header > and footer to any existing preamble and epilogue, although they'll > get hidden by most MIME-aware MUAs. The big one being multipart/alternative, of course, which typically contains a text/plain and a text/html. The safest rules would be: - if it's not a mime message, do the old thing. - if it's mime, and it's not already a multipart/mixed, create a text/multipart with header/original mime/footer. - it it's mime, and and multipart/mixed, simply insert and append the header and footer parts. Messing with the text/plain part is vaguely attractive, although conceivably it could break things (smime? dunno). --- Andrew McNamara (System Architect) connect.com.au Pty Ltd Lvl 3, 213 Miller St, North Sydney, NSW 2060, Australia Phone: +61 2 9409 2117, Fax: +61 2 9409 2111 From ptimmons@courriel.polymtl.ca Fri Mar 30 18:35:05 2001 From: ptimmons@courriel.polymtl.ca (Patrick Timmons) Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2001 13:35:05 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Problem with mailman-2.1a1, syntax error in bin/update : print >>sys.stderr ... References: <3AC27311.693808D@courriel.polymtl.ca> <15042.41396.797377.993500@anthem.wooz.org> Message-ID: <3AC4D1D9.637F9E6C@courriel.polymtl.ca> Hi. I made a hard link to python2.0 and named it /usr/local/bin/python and it worked. Thanks. I was under the impression that I could use option --with-python=/usr/local/bin/python2.0 with configure where /usr/local/bin/python2.0 is the python interpreter. Is this option used to point to the directory where python is or to the executable in itself ? "Barry A. Warsaw" wrote: > > >>>>> "PT" == Patrick Timmons writes: > > PT> I tried with python 2.0 and python 2.1b1 and same result. > > PT> Here is how I made python 2.0: > > | ./configure > | make > | make test > | make altinstall > > I'm not even sure what "make altinstall" does. ;) These error sure > point to Mailman finding an earlier version of Python than 2.0. > > -Barry -- Patrick Timmons, service informatique From barry@digicool.com Fri Mar 30 18:36:02 2001 From: barry@digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw) Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2001 13:36:02 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Problem with mailman-2.1a1, syntax error in bin/update : print >>sys.stderr ... References: <3AC27311.693808D@courriel.polymtl.ca> <15042.41396.797377.993500@anthem.wooz.org> <3AC4D1D9.637F9E6C@courriel.polymtl.ca> Message-ID: <15044.53778.515424.608962@anthem.wooz.org> >>>>> "PT" == Patrick Timmons writes: PT> Hi. PT> I made a hard link to python2.0 and named it PT> /usr/local/bin/python and it worked. Thanks. | I was under the impression that I could use option | --with-python=/usr/local/bin/python2.0 with configure | where /usr/local/bin/python2.0 is the python interpreter. PT> Is this option used to point to the directory where python is PT> or to the executable in itself ? To the executable itself, however it won't help you with the command line scripts. They pick up the first Python executable on your $PATH (this should be fixed, but requires a lot of autoconf-related changes so it's not high on my list). -Barry From bedmonds@antarcti.ca Fri Mar 30 22:32:00 2001 From: bedmonds@antarcti.ca (Brian Edmonds) Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2001 14:32:00 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Headers and footers for MIME messages References: <15042.46824.976889.309145@anthem.wooz.org> Message-ID: barry@digicool.com (Barry A. Warsaw) writes: > 4. A message comes in that is multipart/* but not multipart/mixed. > What to do here? Wrap the whole thing as a multipart/mixed: 1) text/plain: header 2) multipart/blah: original message 3) text/plain: footer Of course, I'm demiming all my lists anyway, so it would probably have gotten bounced before this point. Speaking of demime, and offtopic for this list, I just worked out a simple yet wonderful procmail recipe: :0 fw * ^Content-Type:.*(multipart/alternative|text/html) | /news/local/demime - | formail -a 'From ' Brian.