From ricardo@rixhq.nu Sat Jul 1 01:18:50 2000 From: ricardo@rixhq.nu (Ricardo Kustner) Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2000 02:18:50 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] b3 / my posts / archive Message-ID: <20000701021850.C622@miss-janet.com> first considering my current problem with the approval page: i'm so desperate that i decided to completely reinstall mailman and all the subscribers... everybody will get a new password this way :( Hopefully this fixes the problem... but my server is still sending out the new welcome messages now so i'm waiting for that to finnish... I'm still keeping an copy of the original setup to see if i can find out what is (hopefully *was*) going wrong.... secondly, I notice that sometimes my posts to mailman-developers don't seem to arrive on this list (even though mailman-users always seem to go through)... but i noticed that my post with the subject "approval & b3" didn't arrive in my own mailbox but i *did* find it in the June 2000 archive on python.org... did anybody see my post on this list? (http://www.python.org/pipermail/mailman-developers/2000-June/002541.html) Ricardo. -- From ricardo@rixhq.nu Sat Jul 1 01:39:26 2000 From: ricardo@rixhq.nu (Ricardo Kustner) Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2000 02:39:26 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] b3 list working again Message-ID: <20000701023926.E622@miss-janet.com> After doing a fresh re-install of mailman, the approval of posts seems to be working correctly again. I still don't know what went wrong in my upgrade progress that made it impossible to work... I'll try to find out what went wrong to see if other people can be warned about this... oh well, maybe it was time to restart with a clean config anyway... it's almost 3am... i need to get some sleep soon :) Ricardo. -- From ricardo@rixhq.nu Sat Jul 1 14:27:24 2000 From: ricardo@rixhq.nu (Ricardo Kustner) Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2000 15:27:24 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] almost found the b3 bug? Message-ID: <20000701152724.C10345@miss-janet.com> Hi, i posted earlier that i thought i fixed my b3 approval trouble by completely reinstalling mailman and all the list... unfortunately the approvals still don't work correctly... after doing some testing with qrunner I think I've tracked down part of the problem: i wrote a post to the list... it arrived on the approval page and i did a 'approve'... when I run qrunner by hand with some added syslogs, i noticed it ends up thinking the message is an '-request' post... so the only thing it does with the message is mlist.ParseMailCommands(msg)... I'm going to see if I can track it down more precisely... Ricardo. -- From bwarsaw@beopen.com Sat Jul 1 17:16:48 2000 From: bwarsaw@beopen.com (Barry A. Warsaw) Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2000 12:16:48 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Re: ML replies (was: CVS: python/dist/src/PCbuild readme.txt,1.5,1.6) References: <14684.43443.919858.897738@anthem.concentric.net> <20000701032438.U29590@lyra.org> Message-ID: <14686.6512.329946.694266@anthem.concentric.net> [Please remove python-dev from followups, I'm sure most of those folks don't care about this... -BAW] MM-Devers: on python-dev there's been some discussion about the Reply-to: munging that you can select on Mailman lists. Say you've got a python-checkins list that receives CVS log messages automatically. But you don't want discussions about the changes on python-checkins, you want them on python-dev. How can Mailman set up the headers on outgoing messages to get this behavior? It can't. So it fakes it by setting Reply-to: to the address of the discussion list. We now join our conversation already in progress... >>>>> "GS" == Greg Stein writes: GS> What about the Mail-Followup-To header? That can be helpful GS> for some newsreaders (e.g. Mutt). Dunno how many observe it. It looks like VM/Emacs doesn't (which is what I use), but I'm sure that'd be easy to add. I would be most interested to know what Outlook and NS do with it. However Mail-Followup-To: isn't in any RFC that I can find, not even 2076. It can be found in a discussion by Dan Bernstein[1], but that document specifically says that list managers should /not/ set it because this defeats the intended purpose. I agree - given Dan's recommendation. So there is clearly no header that will support the functionality we want. And all this crud has been debated ad-nauseum in several working groups, MUA forums, etc. with no agreement. I almost hesitate even bringing it up here. Few of the discussions that I've read (in a morning's worth of archive surfing) even mention the situation we're trying to address. One potential solution for Mailman might be to lie about the To: address. So in the above scenario, the message would have a To: field set to python-dev even though the message would actually be sent to the python-checkins membership. An elaboration on that would be to set Resent-To: to python-checkins. But those are all hacks, nearly as disgusting as what Mailman currently does. -Barry [1] http://cr.yp.to/proto/replyto.html From bwarsaw@beopen.com Sat Jul 1 17:38:56 2000 From: bwarsaw@beopen.com (Barry A. Warsaw) Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2000 12:38:56 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Re: almost found the b3 bug? References: <20000701152724.C10345@miss-janet.com> Message-ID: <14686.7840.979846.431348@anthem.concentric.net> >>>>> "RK" == Ricardo Kustner writes: RK> i posted earlier that i thought i fixed my b3 approval trouble RK> by completely reinstalling mailman and all the RK> list... unfortunately the approvals still don't work RK> correctly... after doing some testing with qrunner I think RK> I've tracked down part of the problem: i wrote a post to the RK> list... it arrived on the approval page and i did a RK> 'approve'... when I run qrunner by hand with some added RK> syslogs, i noticed it ends up thinking the message is an RK> '-request' post... so the only thing it does with the message RK> is mlist.ParseMailCommands(msg)... I'm going to see if I can RK> track it down more precisely... Okay, I cannot reproduce the problems that Ricardo is having. In a nutshell, he sent me one of the qfiles/msg.db files generated after approval but before qrunner saw it. This .db file had a `pipeline' key with a value of an empty Python list. That explains completely why the approved message never shows up on the list. What it doesn't explain is why that key/value pair is in the .db dictionary in the first place. I've tried setting up a moderated list and going through the entire submission process a step at a time. I cannot reproduce this situation. Ricardo, the next step is to send me the output of config_list for the list in question. I want to see if there's something wacky about its configuration that's tripping things up. E.g. % bin/config_list -o - yourlist | mail bwarsaw@beopen.com Note that this is a gig heavy weekend for me, so I'm not sure when I'll get to this, but I will do my best. -Barry From ricardo@rixhq.nu Sat Jul 1 19:32:03 2000 From: ricardo@rixhq.nu (Ricardo Kustner) Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2000 20:32:03 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Re: almost found the b3 bug? In-Reply-To: <14686.7840.979846.431348@anthem.concentric.net>; from bwarsaw@beopen.com on Sat, Jul 01, 2000 at 12:38:56PM -0400 References: <20000701152724.C10345@miss-janet.com> <14686.7840.979846.431348@anthem.concentric.net> Message-ID: <20000701203202.K10345@miss-janet.com> On Sat, Jul 01, 2000 at 12:38:56PM -0400, Barry A. Warsaw wrote: > This .db file had a `pipeline' key with a value of an empty Python > list. That explains completely why the approved message never shows > up on the list. What it doesn't explain is why that key/value pair is > in the .db dictionary in the first place. i just noticed this already happens in request.db: (if only i knew about that handy dumpdb script earlier ;) ) 18: ( 1, ( 962475825.788, 'ricardo@miss-janet.com', 'test 003', 'Post to moderated list', 'heldmsg-mailinglist-18.txt', { 'listname': 'mailinglist', 'pipeline': [], 'rejection-notice': 'Your message has been deemed inappropriate by the moderator.', 'version': 1}))} makes we wonder... since the step from post to held-for-approval is an internal 'post'... maybe some variables are leaked from one step to the other...? > Note that this is a gig heavy weekend for me, so I'm not sure when > I'll get to this, but I will do my best. thanks... I'm working full time on it today, so if I find the problem i'll report it immediately... we seem to be getting a bit closer to it now... Ricardo. -- From jim@cosource.com Sat Jul 1 19:43:17 2000 From: jim@cosource.com (Jim Hebert) Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2000 14:43:17 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Re: ML replies (was: CVS: python/dist/src/PCbuild readme.txt,1.5,1.6) In-Reply-To: <14686.6512.329946.694266@anthem.concentric.net> Message-ID: On Sat, 1 Jul 2000, Barry A. Warsaw wrote: > [1] http://cr.yp.to/proto/replyto.html I often find that with any number of D.B.'s various interesting and non-standard propositions that I read it and go "hell yeah, everyone should do it that way!" Just as often I read a counterpoint from someone and almost always end up going "oh, good point, guess that isn't such a great idea after all." =) So I'd be interested if anyone turns up discussions of this where I can read the counterpoint. Barry, sounded like you had a line on these threads somewhere already? jim -- Jim Hebert http://www.cosource.com/ jim@cosource.com The cooperative market for open source software "Well actually I was considering opening a market in flying pigs. Mostly because it would be more practical...." -- Alan Cox From thomas@xs4all.net Sat Jul 1 23:03:00 2000 From: thomas@xs4all.net (Thomas Wouters) Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2000 00:03:00 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] ML replies In-Reply-To: <14686.6512.329946.694266@anthem.concentric.net>; from bwarsaw@beopen.com on Sat, Jul 01, 2000 at 12:16:48PM -0400 References: <14684.43443.919858.897738@anthem.concentric.net> <20000701032438.U29590@lyra.org> <14686.6512.329946.694266@anthem.concentric.net> Message-ID: <20000702000300.B283@xs4all.nl> [Greg, I don't know if you want to stay on the CC-list, nor wether you're on the MM-devel list or not. Feel free to ignore this message ;-] On Sat, Jul 01, 2000 at 12:16:48PM -0400, Barry A. Warsaw wrote: > So there is clearly no header that will support the functionality we > want. And all this crud has been debated ad-nauseum in several > working groups, MUA forums, etc. with no agreement. I almost hesitate > even bringing it up here. Few of the discussions that I've read (in a > morning's worth of archive surfing) even mention the situation we're > trying to address. Hmm. Personally, I've configured my Mutt to always do a group reply, and sincerely dislike the Reply-To: header in python-checkins: I've been tempted to reply to the person checking in a few times, and then stopped at the last moment because the To: header of the new mail was set to the Reply-To: header instead of the original author, and I didn't want to bother with suspending the message and finding out the original authors' email address ;) As said, I always do a group reply, and I always doublecheck the headers of mail I send. For me, it'd be great if the Reply-To header were set to "original@auth.or, list@reply.to", though I do not know if that would work. There are always occasions where the solution you pick is not going to work out, unfortunately. For instance, at XS4ALL we communicate through lists a lot. In a decent-sized discussion, about half of the participants keep the entire To: line intact, replying to people on the list directly as well as to the list. I'm really enjoying the Mailman 'max recipients' setting for exactly that reason ;) If Mailman was setting Reply-To: to the author, people would have to go through some hassle to reply to the list. (Mutt has excellent support for the author-reply/group-reply/list-reply nuances, but most people use Eudorka or similarly worthless MUAs.) If Mailman was setting the Reply-To: to the list, the same people would be replying to the list when they intend to reply to a person. If you add both to the Reply-To:, they'd always be replying to both, supplying people with double (or more, given people who use several aliases at the same time. Yes, we have those ;-P) messages. It might help if Mailman set the Reply-To: to both the list and the author, unless the author him/herself is on the list, in which case it'd be just the list. But that would require Mailman to know all the aliases of a user. Also, for some lists, it might be desirable to set it to just the author. (Our 'important announcements only' list is always a target for replies, despite numerous warnings. Another instance of Mailman To The Rescue ;) But I seriously think the best solution to this problem is user-education, not artificial intelligence in the MUA or in MM. If people take the 5 seconds it takes to look at the message headers, and the occasional 10 seconds required to change it to what they actually want, the problem is gone. We have a nice device called a LART to take care of user-adjustment <0.1 wink> and usually even the most stubborn users start taking care after the 2nd or 3rd time. Our-company-of-experienced-tech-wizards-and-newly-hired-(and-clueless)-suits- -and-marketeers-ends-up-a-good-test-bed-for-such-ideas-ly yr's ;) -- Thomas Wouters Hi! I'm a .signature virus! copy me into your .signature file to help me spread! From chuqui@plaidworks.com Sat Jul 1 23:05:55 2000 From: chuqui@plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach) Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2000 15:05:55 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Re: ML replies (was: CVS: python/dist/src/PCbuild readme.txt,1.5,1.6) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: At 2:43 PM -0400 7/1/00, Jim Hebert wrote: >On Sat, 1 Jul 2000, Barry A. Warsaw wrote: > >> [1] http://cr.yp.to/proto/replyto.html > >I often find that with any number of D.B.'s various interesting and >non-standard propositions that I read it and go "hell yeah, everyone >should do it that way!" I like this one. He should turn it into an RFC and try to formalize it. -- Chuq Von Rospach - Plaidworks Consulting (mailto:chuqui@plaidworks.com) Apple Mail List Gnome (mailto:chuq@apple.com) And they sit at the bar and put bread in my jar and say 'Man, what are you doing here?'" From ricardo@miss-janet.com Sat Jul 1 23:51:31 2000 From: ricardo@miss-janet.com (Ricardo - Miss Janet . Fanclub) Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2000 00:51:31 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Re: almost found the b3 bug?... ALMOST In-Reply-To: <14686.7840.979846.431348@anthem.concentric.net>; from bwarsaw@beopen.com on Sat, Jul 01, 2000 at 12:38:56PM -0400 References: <20000701152724.C10345@miss-janet.com> <14686.7840.979846.431348@anthem.concentric.net> Message-ID: <20000702005131.G11806@miss-janet.com> On Sat, Jul 01, 2000 at 12:38:56PM -0400, Barry A. Warsaw wrote: > Okay, I cannot reproduce the problems that Ricardo is having. In a > nutshell, he sent me one of the qfiles/msg.db files generated after > approval but before qrunner saw it. after spending almost all day digging in the code, i decided to create a test list and try out every config option i set for the normal list... and then i finally found a way to reproduce it: try creating a moderated list with the option "Send mail to poster when their posting is held for approval?" (dont_respond_to_post_requests) set to YES (defaults to NO) ... and then you'll experience the same trouble as I have... i'm going to have a look if I can find the exact bug, but i'm not sure if i'll be able too... i understand a lot more now about the way the pipelining works, but it's quite complicated to follow through the code... Ricardo. From gstein@lyra.org Sun Jul 2 01:39:49 2000 From: gstein@lyra.org (Greg Stein) Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2000 17:39:49 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Re: ML replies In-Reply-To: ; from chuqui@plaidworks.com on Sat, Jul 01, 2000 at 09:34:19AM -0700 References: <14684.43443.919858.897738@anthem.concentric.net> <20000701032438.U29590@lyra.org> <14686.6512.329946.694266@anthem.concentric.net> Message-ID: <20000701173949.G29590@lyra.org> Um... problem reset... My real point wasn't to have *Mailman* set any of these headers, but the script that generates the message(!). Mailman can comfortably ignore any Reply-To or Mail-Followup-To message. Just operate it like a normal list. The script that gathers up the CVS data and ships it off can insert the two headers into the outbound messages. Cheers, -g p.s. yes, maybe Mailman can also set those headers for normal operation to capture the bozos that send mail to the list; but that is a separate question and (obviously from the responses) not a straight-forward one. On Sat, Jul 01, 2000 at 09:34:19AM -0700, Chuq Von Rospach wrote: > At 12:16 PM -0400 7/1/00, Barry A. Warsaw wrote: > > > GS> What about the Mail-Followup-To header? That can be helpful > > GS> for some newsreaders (e.g. Mutt). Dunno how many observe it. > > > >It looks like VM/Emacs doesn't (which is what I use), but I'm sure > >that'd be easy to add. I would be most interested to know what > >Outlook and NS do with it. > > > >However Mail-Followup-To: isn't in any RFC that I can find, not even > >2076. > > It's non-standard, and in fact, arguably non-compliant, since any > unofficial header should be in the X-headername form. > > >So there is clearly no header that will support the functionality we > >want. > > This is a case where Reply-To is the correct header to set, or at > least, least incorrect. > > >One potential solution for Mailman might be to lie about the To: > >address. So in the above scenario, the message would have a To: field > >set to python-dev even though the message would actually be sent to > >the python-checkins membership. > > um, uh, well... I don't like it. Even if you had Sender: and List-ID > set properly, it still seems wrong. > > For this case, I think the best setup is Reply-to, because that's > waht you want: it came FROM this place, but responses go to this > other place. The proper answer is setting reply-to, not attempting to > rearrange the concept of "from this place". > > As a strong proponent of "don't use reply-to!" -- this is a case > where it's the proper answer. It's not perfect by any means, since > reply-to coerces someone away from replying privately, but in this > situation, that's better than not doing it. > > -- > Chuq Von Rospach - Plaidworks Consulting (mailto:chuqui@plaidworks.com) > Apple Mail List Gnome (mailto:chuq@apple.com) > > And they sit at the bar and put bread in my jar > and say 'Man, what are you doing here?'" -- Greg Stein, http://www.lyra.org/ From bwarsaw@beopen.com Sun Jul 2 14:55:29 2000 From: bwarsaw@beopen.com (Barry A. Warsaw) Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2000 09:55:29 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Re: ML replies (was: CVS: python/dist/src/PCbuild readme.txt,1.5,1.6) References: <14686.6512.329946.694266@anthem.concentric.net> Message-ID: <14687.18897.899248.324942@anthem.concentric.net> >>>>> "JH" == Jim Hebert writes: JH> I often find that with any number of D.B.'s various JH> interesting and non-standard propositions that I read it and JH> go "hell yeah, everyone should do it that way!" Just as often JH> I read a counterpoint from someone and almost always end up JH> going "oh, good point, guess that isn't such a great idea JH> after all." =) Funny, I went through the same thoughts. :) JH> So I'd be interested if anyone turns up discussions of this JH> where I can read the counterpoint. Barry, sounded like you had JH> a line on these threads somewhere already? I just did a google search, but here's an interesting thread from 1998 in the GNUS/Ding archives: http://www.gnus.org/list-archives/ding/199802/msg00147.html -Barry From bwarsaw@beopen.com Sun Jul 2 18:51:41 2000 From: bwarsaw@beopen.com (Barry A. Warsaw) Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2000 13:51:41 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Re: almost found the b3 bug?... ALMOST References: <20000701152724.C10345@miss-janet.com> <14686.7840.979846.431348@anthem.concentric.net> <20000702005131.G11806@miss-janet.com> Message-ID: <14687.33069.339888.383749@anthem.concentric.net> >>>>> "R" == Ricardo writes: R> after spending almost all day digging in the code, i decided to R> create a test list and try out every config option i set for R> the normal list... and then i finally found a way to reproduce R> it: R> try creating a moderated list with the option "Send mail to R> poster when their posting is held for approval?" R> (dont_respond_to_post_requests) set to YES (defaults to NO) R> ... and then you'll experience the same trouble as I have... R> i'm going to have a look if I can find the exact bug, but i'm R> not sure if i'll be able too... i understand a lot more now R> about the way the pipelining works, but it's quite complicated R> to follow through the code... That's actually not quite enough to reproduce the bug. However the config_list output you sent me /did/ provide the clue. You need to also turn off admin_immed_notify. Now I was able to recreate your problem! So that's a start. Unfortunately it's not immediately obvious why this triggers the bug. I will look into it, but I probably will not have time before Tuesday night to do much. We'll see if I get lucky in the next 1/2 hour. Getting much closer, -Barry From bwarsaw@beopen.com Sun Jul 2 19:18:36 2000 From: bwarsaw@beopen.com (Barry A. Warsaw) Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2000 14:18:36 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Re: almost found the b3 bug?... ALMOST References: <20000701152724.C10345@miss-janet.com> <14686.7840.979846.431348@anthem.concentric.net> <20000702005131.G11806@miss-janet.com> <14687.33069.339888.383749@anthem.concentric.net> Message-ID: <14687.34684.846475.515900@anthem.concentric.net> >>>>> "BAW" == Barry A Warsaw writes: BAW> Unfortunately it's not immediately obvious why this triggers BAW> the bug. I will look into it, but I probably will not have BAW> time before Tuesday night to do much. We'll see if I get BAW> lucky in the next 1/2 hour. And indeed I did! Here's a patch that should fix things for you. I'm not entirely sure this is the RTTD, so I'm not checking it in just yet. It'll definitely fix your problem, but I want to think about it over the next day or two. If this still `smells good' Tuesday night, I'll roll this in with the bin/newlist fix and issue a beta4. Cheers, -Barry Index: ListAdmin.py =================================================================== RCS file: /cvsroot/mailman/mailman/Mailman/ListAdmin.py,v retrieving revision 1.42 diff -u -r1.42 ListAdmin.py --- ListAdmin.py 2000/06/28 21:48:12 1.42 +++ ListAdmin.py 2000/07/02 18:17:12 @@ -135,6 +135,11 @@ del self.__db[id] def HoldMessage(self, msg, reason, msgdata={}): + # Make a copy of msgdata so that subsequent changes won't corrupt the + # request database. + newmsgdata = {} + newmsgdata.update(msgdata) + msgdata = newmsgdata # assure that the database is open for writing self.__opendb() # get the next unique id From ricardo@rixhq.nu Sun Jul 2 20:59:15 2000 From: ricardo@rixhq.nu (Ricardo Kustner) Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2000 21:59:15 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] fix for approval forwards Message-ID: <20000702215915.E1615@miss-janet.com> Hi, I mentioned earlier that the forward option on the approval page is not working properly... since i've spent some more time in the mailman code this weekend, i decided to see if i could fix this... It turns out the i could fix this by changing line # 233 in ListAdmin.py from msg.recips = addr to msg.recips = [addr] someday i might actually understand python... :) Ricardo. -- From ricardo@rixhq.nu Sun Jul 2 21:28:12 2000 From: ricardo@rixhq.nu (Ricardo Kustner) Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2000 22:28:12 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Re: almost found the b3 bug?... ALMOST In-Reply-To: <14687.34684.846475.515900@anthem.concentric.net>; from bwarsaw@beopen.com on Sun, Jul 02, 2000 at 02:18:36PM -0400 References: <20000701152724.C10345@miss-janet.com> <14686.7840.979846.431348@anthem.concentric.net> <20000702005131.G11806@miss-janet.com> <14687.33069.339888.383749@anthem.concentric.net> <14687.34684.846475.515900@anthem.concentric.net> Message-ID: <20000702222812.G1615@miss-janet.com> Hi, On Sun, Jul 02, 2000 at 02:18:36PM -0400, Barry A. Warsaw wrote: > BAW> Unfortunately it's not immediately obvious why this triggers > BAW> the bug. I will look into it, but I probably will not have > BAW> time before Tuesday night to do much. We'll see if I get > BAW> lucky in the next 1/2 hour. > And indeed I did! Here's a patch that should fix things for you. I'm > not entirely sure this is the RTTD, so I'm not checking it in just > yet. It'll definitely fix your problem, but I want to think about it > over the next day or two. yes it fixes the problem ... thanks! > If this still `smells good' Tuesday night, I'll roll this in with the > bin/newlist fix and issue a beta4. ah good... actually i've also posted a fix for the forward function in admindb.py which didn't work. I posted it to mailman-developers, but i didn't see it arrive yet... Ricardo. -- From claw@kanga.nu Tue Jul 4 03:10:38 2000 From: claw@kanga.nu (J C Lawrence) Date: Mon, 03 Jul 2000 19:10:38 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] WebArchives with replies from the archives under MHonArc Message-ID: <31696.962676638@kanga.nu> A while back I referred to a project I was working on of getting MHonArc and PHP4/PHPLib to produce web archives for mailing lists that support replying to the archived messages with proper quoting, In-Reply-To/References headers and all the rest, right there from the web page. v1.0 is now up and can be seen at the pages under: http://www.kanga.nu/archives/ Note that some list archives support replying, and some don't (simple per-list configuration). eg: http://www.kanga.nu/archives/IRead-L/2000Q2/msg00001.php (replyable) http://www.kanga.nu/archives/ICGnu-L/1998Q3/msg00783.php (no reply) Software requirements: PHP4 (not PHP3, it needs the << References: Message-ID: <0007052124230Q.01007@samsara.local.ie> HEy guys, Where can i get the latest CVS Snapshot.... Since upgrading to B3 , The lists aren't working... approved messages aren't sent etc, and unless I get these lists out fast someones gonna kill me. Also couldn't downgrade to 1.1 for some reason ? Hope you can help - John -- John MacKenzie | Unix Systems Admin | e: mailto:jmackenzie@local.ie ___________________________________________________________________ Stay in touch your local area through Local Ireland http://chat.local.ie/chat/index.html ___________________________________________________________________ local ireland | dublin | new york | http://www.local.ie t: +353 1 676 8996 f: +353 1 283 9988 From gorgo@caesar.elte.hu Wed Jul 5 21:49:14 2000 From: gorgo@caesar.elte.hu (Gergely Madarasz) Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2000 22:49:14 +0200 (METDST) Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Getting Latest Mailman CVS Snapshot In-Reply-To: <0007052124230Q.01007@samsara.local.ie> Message-ID: On Wed, 5 Jul 2000, John MacKenzie wrote: > HEy guys, > > Where can i get the latest CVS Snapshot.... > Since upgrading to B3 , The lists aren't working... approved messages aren't > sent etc, and unless I get these lists out fast someones gonna kill me. You didn't update the cron entries, did you ? -- Madarasz Gergely gorgo@caesar.elte.hu gorgo@linux.rulez.org It's practically impossible to look at a penguin and feel angry. Egy pingvinre gyakorlatilag lehetetlen haragosan nezni. HuLUG: http://mlf.linux.rulez.org/ From jmackenzie@local.ie Wed Jul 5 21:59:35 2000 From: jmackenzie@local.ie (John MacKenzie) Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2000 21:59:35 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Getting Latest Mailman CVS Snapshot In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0007052200250R.01007@samsara.local.ie> Yeh I updated the cron entries , See below. - John [root@localweb data]# crontab -u mailman -l # DO NOT EDIT THIS FILE - edit the master and reinstall. # (crontab.in installed on Mon Jul 3 17:33:07 2000) # (Cron version -- $Id: crontab.c,v 2.13 1994/01/17 03:20:37 vixie Exp $) # At 5PM every day, mail reminders to admins as to pending requests 0 17 * * * /usr/bin/python -S /home/mailman/cron/checkdbs # # Noon, mail digests for lists that do periodic as well as threshhold delivery. 0 12 * * * /usr/bin/python -S /home/mailman/cron/senddigests # # 5 AM on the first of each month, mail out password reminders. 0 5 1 * * /usr/bin/python -S /home/mailman/cron/mailpasswds # # Every 5 mins, try to gate news to mail. You can comment this one out # if you don't want to allow gating, or don't have any going on right now, # or want to exclusively use a callback strategy instead of polling. 0,5,10,15,20,25,30,35,40,45,50,55 * * * * /usr/bin/python -S /home/mailman/cron/gate_news # # At 3:27am every night, regenerate the gzip'd archive file. Only # turn this on if the internal archiver is used and # GZIP_ARCHIVE_TXT_FILES is false in mm_cfg.py 27 3 * * * /usr/bin/python -S /home/mailman/cron/nightly_gzip # # Retry failed deliveries once per minute. * * * * * /usr/bin/python -S /home/mailman/cron/qrunner > You didn't update the cron entries, did you ? > -- John MacKenzie | Unix Systems Admin | e: mailto:jmackenzie@local.ie ___________________________________________________________________ Stay in touch your local area through Local Ireland http://chat.local.ie/chat/index.html ___________________________________________________________________ local ireland | dublin | new york | http://www.local.ie t: +353 1 676 8996 f: +353 1 283 9988 From thomas@xs4all.net Wed Jul 5 22:24:11 2000 From: thomas@xs4all.net (Thomas Wouters) Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2000 23:24:11 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Getting Latest Mailman CVS Snapshot In-Reply-To: <0007052124230Q.01007@samsara.local.ie>; from jmackenzie@local.ie on Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 09:22:47PM +0100 References: <0007052124230Q.01007@samsara.local.ie> Message-ID: <20000705232411.C13478@xs4all.nl> On Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 09:22:47PM +0100, John MacKenzie wrote: > Where can i get the latest CVS Snapshot.... > Since upgrading to B3 , The lists aren't working... approved messages aren't > sent etc, and unless I get these lists out fast someones gonna kill me. There are some minor issues with certain list configurations (moderated lists with admin_immed_notify and such, i believe) which were only just fixed (Barry checked in the fixes in the last hour or so.) You might have been bitten by that bug, or you might be facing an entirely different one ;-P Some more information would help: what kind of setup, what kind of lists, what about different list configurations, etc. > Also couldn't downgrade to 1.1 for some reason ? Not terribly suprising, a lot of things have changed since 1.1. It's been terribly long since I played with 1.1, but I'm guessing the easiest way of downgrading is restoring a backup. You might be able to do it using config_list and manually restoring messages in the mailman queueu. It's probably a lot of work, though, so if the CVS tree works for you, so much the better ;-P -- Thomas Wouters Hi! I'm a .signature virus! copy me into your .signature file to help me spread! From bwarsaw@beopen.com Wed Jul 5 22:29:04 2000 From: bwarsaw@beopen.com (Barry A. Warsaw) Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2000 17:29:04 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Getting Latest Mailman CVS Snapshot References: <0007052124230Q.01007@samsara.local.ie> <20000705232411.C13478@xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <14691.43168.191507.12801@anthem.concentric.net> >>>>> "TW" == Thomas Wouters writes: TW> There are some minor issues with certain list configurations TW> (moderated lists with admin_immed_notify and such, i believe) TW> which were only just fixed (Barry checked in the fixes in the TW> last hour or so.) And I think, thanks to a clue from Jim Tittsler, I may have fixed the archiving bug. If so, I'll spin beta4 and release that tonight. -Barry From bwarsaw@beopen.com Wed Jul 5 22:30:16 2000 From: bwarsaw@beopen.com (Barry A. Warsaw) Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2000 17:30:16 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Getting Latest Mailman CVS Snapshot References: <0007052124230Q.01007@samsara.local.ie> Message-ID: <14691.43240.970073.301239@anthem.concentric.net> >>>>> "JM" == John MacKenzie writes: JM> Where can i get the latest CVS Snapshot.... Oh, BTW, that's http://sourceforge.net/cvs/?group_id=103 -Barry From jmackenzie@local.ie Wed Jul 5 22:33:42 2000 From: jmackenzie@local.ie (John MacKenzie) Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2000 22:33:42 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Getting Latest Mailman CVS Snapshot In-Reply-To: <20000705232411.C13478@xs4all.nl> References: <0007052124230Q.01007@samsara.local.ie> <20000705232411.C13478@xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <0007052244300S.01007@samsara.local.ie> Its Mailman 2.0b3 , running on rh6.1 with Python 1.5.2 The lists are moderated , with instant admin notify set on. The lists have on haverage, 3000 , 3500 subscribers. and there are 47 lists. Please find Below a Standard list config : real_name = 'Whats-new' owner = ['listmaster@local.ie', 'barry@local.ie'] description = '' info = '' subject_prefix = ' ' welcome_msg = '' goodbye_msg ="""Your email address has been removed from this list. Thank you for receiving the 'Whats New' mailinglist. We are constantly adding new ones covering new areas and topics. Have a look at at the full range of topice here: http://www.local.ie/lists/ If you have and comments of suggestion on how to improve this service please contact me < shane@local.ie >. Regards, Shane O'Sullivan - Local Ireland Webmaster.""" reply_goes_to_list = 0 reply_to_address = '' administrivia = 1 umbrella_list = 0 umbrella_member_suffix = '-owner' send_reminders = 0 send_welcome_msg = 0 admin_immed_notify = 0 admin_notify_mchanges = 0 dont_respond_to_post_requests = 0 max_message_size = 40 host_name = 'lists.local.ie' web_page_url = 'http://www.local.ie/mailman/' advertised = 1 subscribe_policy = 1 private_roster = 2 obscure_addresses = 1 moderated = 1 member_posting_only = 1 posters = [] require_explicit_destination = 1 acceptable_aliases = '' max_num_recipients = 10 forbidden_posters = [] to: friend@public.com message-id: relay.comanche.denmark.eu from: list@listme.com from: .*@uplinkpro.com """ anonymous_list = 1 nondigestable = 1 msg_header = '' msg_footer =""" """ digestable = 1 digest_is_default = 0 mime_is_default_digest = 0 digest_size_threshhold = 30 digest_send_periodic = 1 digest_header = '' digest_footer ="""_______________________________________________ %(real_name)s maillist - %(real_name)s@%(host_name)s %(web_page_url)slistinfo/%(_internal_name)s """ bounce_processing = 1 minimum_removal_date = 5 minimum_post_count_before_bounce_action = 2 max_posts_between_bounces = 5 automatic_bounce_action = 3 archive = 1 archive_private = 0 clobber_date = 0 archive_volume_frequency = 1 nntp_host = '' linked_newsgroup = '' gateway_to_news = 0 gateway_to_mail = 0 Some more information would help: what kind of setup, what > kind of lists, what about different list configurations, etc. > -- John MacKenzie | Unix Systems Admin | e: mailto:jmackenzie@local.ie ___________________________________________________________________ Stay in touch your local area through Local Ireland http://chat.local.ie/chat/index.html ___________________________________________________________________ local ireland | dublin | new york | http://www.local.ie t: +353 1 676 8996 f: +353 1 283 9988 From thomas@xs4all.net Wed Jul 5 23:04:35 2000 From: thomas@xs4all.net (Thomas Wouters) Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2000 00:04:35 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Getting Latest Mailman CVS Snapshot In-Reply-To: <0007052244300S.01007@samsara.local.ie>; from jmackenzie@local.ie on Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 10:33:42PM +0100 References: <0007052124230Q.01007@samsara.local.ie> <20000705232411.C13478@xs4all.nl> <0007052244300S.01007@samsara.local.ie> Message-ID: <20000706000435.D13478@xs4all.nl> On Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 10:33:42PM +0100, John MacKenzie wrote: > Its Mailman 2.0b3 , running on rh6.1 with Python 1.5.2 > The lists are moderated , with instant admin notify set on. Then you are hitting that particular bug. Grab the latest CVS snapshot, Barry already told you where to get it. (Sorry, I misread your original message due to the flu I'm currently battlin' ;P I thought you were already running the latest CVS tree.) If you grab the CVS snapshot, you might want to update regularly, as Barry is supposedly checking in a fix soonish for the broken archiving (which you haven't even seen yet ;) and other bugfixes might follow. But the current CVS snapshot is definately more stable than b3. -- Thomas Wouters Hi! I'm a .signature virus! copy me into your .signature file to help me spread! From ricardo@rixhq.nu Thu Jul 6 07:15:03 2000 From: ricardo@rixhq.nu (Ricardo Kustner) Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2000 08:15:03 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Getting Latest Mailman CVS Snapshot In-Reply-To: <14691.43168.191507.12801@anthem.concentric.net>; from bwarsaw@beopen.com on Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 05:29:04PM -0400 References: <0007052124230Q.01007@samsara.local.ie> <20000705232411.C13478@xs4all.nl> <14691.43168.191507.12801@anthem.concentric.net> Message-ID: <20000706081503.B5091@miss-janet.com> On Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 05:29:04PM -0400, Barry A. Warsaw wrote: > > >>>>> "TW" == Thomas Wouters writes: > TW> There are some minor issues with certain list configurations > TW> (moderated lists with admin_immed_notify and such, i believe) > TW> which were only just fixed (Barry checked in the fixes in the > TW> last hour or so.) > And I think, thanks to a clue from Jim Tittsler, I may have fixed the > archiving bug. If so, I'll spin beta4 and release that tonight. did you see my fix for the approval forward option? i didnt notice it yet in the cvs... i think it's important enough for b4, cause if you have about 50 held messages for example, the listadmin will get 50 copies of the forwarded message if 1 message is forwarded to a certain address (which it doesnt get delivered to with the bug) Ricardo. -- From foner@media.mit.edu Thu Jul 6 07:43:19 2000 From: foner@media.mit.edu (Lenny Foner) Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2000 02:43:19 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Incoming patch to fix a few Mailman bugs Message-ID: <200007060643.CAA19053@out-of-band.media.mit.edu> [Please keep me CC'ed on any response you'd like me to see; I will occasionally read the developer & user archives from the website, but they're both too high-traffic for me to be subscribed to, so I'm only on the announce list.] Hi. On 18 June 2000, I sent three messages detailing about 14, uh, "issues" I had with Mailman 2.0beta2 as a brand-new user of it to administer some lists of mine. I've since discovered another serious one (#0 below). Included below that is a patch which fixes #0, #3, #7 (badly---it just removes the text, even if reminder messages -are- being sent!), #8, #9, #10, and #11 (but note that #11 is untested in the umbrella-list configuration). Fixing #0 actually required me to learn Python and a lot of the (confusingly-implemented) design of how Mailman archives messages (totally different control flows for real-time archiving vs rebulding the archive, and none of this is documented in the source code); I did both simply by reading the code on Saturday and Sunday. But be aware, though, that the resulting code may have better solutions for a more experienced Python programmer; I'm really a Common Lisp programmer at heart. :) Bugs #1 and #2 still look reasonably critical to me but are the ones I'm least likely to be fixing, since they may require more familiarity with the source than I'll have time to spend. I'm including all of the original items after the patch, including #0 (which I haven't reported before), so you can figure out what I'm talking about without digging up my old mail. Note also that this patch is for 2.0beta2, not 2.0beta3---beta3 looks a little too unstable for me to use right now, based on the mail I saw on the users list immediately after its release. However, except perhaps for line numbers, it doesn't look like much (or any) of my patches conflict with anything that was done for beta3, so it should be relatively easy to merge this code w/beta3, especially if you're using reasonable merge tools. [If this code will definitely be included in the next release, I might be convinced to do the merge for you, but I'm not going to do so unless I get some feedback that I'm even doing the right thing here to begin with...] - - - Begin patch - - - [This patch was made via "diff -ur" between my modified directory and the virgin 2.0beta2 release, rather than via "patch" or "cvs diff" or anything like that. This means that each file's differences are separated by a line beginning with "diff -ur". I may put Mailman under CVS control at my site if I wind up having to track a lot of divergence between my patches and Mailman, but I'm hoping they'll be folded in instead. Obviously, all the "Foner" comments should be removed; they're there mostly to make it obvious to me, and maybe you, what got changed.] Also, -beware- of indentation! "diff -ur" inserted a leading space in front of -every- line, in theory so that those with +'s and -'s in them would line up with those that had none, but some of the lines were indented with tabs before, hence -those- lines didn't have their alignment changed because SPC TAB is exactly as wide as just TAB. So the 1-character-variances in indentation you see below are spurious; it'll be obvious when merging the patch back into the real sources. diff -ur mailman-2.0beta2.virgin/Mailman/Archiver/Archiver.py mailman-2.0beta2/Mailman/Archiver/Archiver.py --- mailman-2.0beta2.virgin/Mailman/Archiver/Archiver.py Sun Apr 2 20:34:01 2000 +++ mailman-2.0beta2/Mailman/Archiver/Archiver.py Mon Jul 3 02:07:00 2000 @@ -208,6 +208,7 @@ # from this point on, we're doing all the expensive archiving # work. txt = msg.unixfrom + self.unixfrom = msg.unixfrom ### Foner for h in msg.headers: txt = txt + h if not msg.body or msg.body[0] <> '\n': diff -ur mailman-2.0beta2.virgin/Mailman/Archiver/HyperArch.py mailman-2.0beta2/Mailman/Archiver/HyperArch.py --- mailman-2.0beta2.virgin/Mailman/Archiver/HyperArch.py Fri Apr 7 15:06:58 2000 +++ mailman-2.0beta2/Mailman/Archiver/HyperArch.py Mon Jul 3 03:12:53 2000 @@ -62,16 +62,73 @@ def url_quote(s): return urllib.quote(s) - +### +++ Foner. +# [This template is used when generating archives/private//