From fil@bok.net Sat Jan 1 13:26:26 2000 From: fil@bok.net (Fil) Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2000 14:26:26 +0100 (MET) Subject: [Mailman-Developers] password requested at subscription time is too much Message-ID: Hi, I posted a while ago a patch to make mailman choose a password for the new subscriber should she not enter one in the boxes. I think this preserves all privacy concerns, as the password generated will be sent to her and she can modify it at any time. And it makes subscription easier. Will this patch be integrated? One would also like to modify the default "we value your privacy" message to add something like "if you do not enter a password we will elicit one for you". happy new year to mailman, which is starting to take over everywhere I look at! -- Fil From garthc@abode.com Sun Jan 2 00:07:13 2000 From: garthc@abode.com (Garth Corral) Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2000 16:07:13 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Building in a subdirectory In-Reply-To: Message-ID: The following will allow mailman to be configured and built in a subdirectory of the source tree; my preferred method. It should not affect those that prefer to do this directly in the source tree. If someone could see their way clear to commit this, I would be grateful. Garth ------------------------------------------------------------------------- RCS file: /projects/cvsroot/mailman/src/Makefile.in,v retrieving revision 1.16 diff -u -r1.16 Makefile.in --- Makefile.in 1999/07/12 20:31:07 1.16 +++ Makefile.in 2000/01/01 23:58:31 @@ -102,10 +102,10 @@ $(CGI_PROGS): $(srcdir)/cgi-wrapper.c $(COMMONOBJS) $(CC) -DSCRIPT="\"$@\"" -I. $(CGI_FLAGS) $(CFLAGS) $(COMMONOBJS) -o $@ $(srcdir)/cgi-wrapper.c -common.o: $(srcdir)/common.c $(srcdir)/common.h $(srcdir)/Makefile +common.o: $(srcdir)/common.c $(srcdir)/common.h Makefile $(CC) -c -I. $(COMMON_FLAGS) $(CFLAGS) $(srcdir)/common.c -vsnprintf.o: $(srcdir)/vsnprintf.c $(srcdir)/Makefile +vsnprintf.o: $(srcdir)/vsnprintf.c Makefile $(CC) -c -I. $(COMMON_FLAGS) $(CFLAGS) $(srcdir)/vsnprintf.c install: all From garthc@abode.com Sun Jan 2 04:13:26 2000 From: garthc@abode.com (Garth Corral) Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2000 20:13:26 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Building in a subdirectory In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 1 Jan 2000, Garth Corral wrote: > > The following will allow mailman to be configured and built in a > subdirectory of the source tree; my preferred method. It should not > affect those that prefer to do this directly in the source tree. > If someone could see their way clear to commit this, I would be grateful. > I have a set of makefile patches to allow installation from a configured subdirectory. Again, these should not affect those that prefer to build in the source tree. Anyone care to review these for possible submission? > Garth From mtearle@tartarus.uwa.edu.au Mon Jan 3 09:16:49 2000 From: mtearle@tartarus.uwa.edu.au (Mark Tearle) Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 17:16:49 +0800 (WST) Subject: [Mailman-Developers] unioned lists patch In-Reply-To: <20000103064022.E54A41CD7F@dinsdale.python.org> Message-ID: Hi all The following is a local patch to Mailman (against 1.1, the latest version of packaged up for debian anyhow) to effect unions lists. (ie for a list of lists, each recipient will only get one copy if they are on more than one list. ) mooneye:/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman# diff -c MailList.py-orig MailList.py *** MailList.py-orig Tue Jan 4 00:09:21 2000 --- MailList.py Tue Jan 4 00:45:35 2000 *************** *** 1342,1350 **** --- 1342,1374 ---- # Deliver the mail. members = self.GetDeliveryMembers() recipients = [] + + recip_set = {} + for m in members: if not self.GetUserOption(m, mm_cfg.DisableDelivery): recipients.append(m) + recip_set[m] = 1 + + # Code to union in other lists. + if hasattr(self, "union_lists"): + msg.SetHeader('X-Unioned-Lists', string.join(self.union_lists, \ + ", ")) + for union_list in self.union_lists: + # Open the list. Do not lock, since this would cause deadlock. + try: + imp_list = MailList(union_list, 0) + except: + continue + imp_members = imp_list.GetDeliveryMembers() + for m in imp_members: + if not imp_list.GetUserOption(m, mm_cfg.DisableDelivery): + if not recip_set.has_key(m): + recipients.append(m) + recip_set[m] = 1 + imp_list = None + recip_set = None + if dont_send_to_sender: try: recipients.remove(self.GetUserSubscribedAddress(sender)) Yours Mark -- Mark Tearle - mtearle@tartarus.uwa.edu.au Captain Bipto: We did win, didn't we? Blaznee: No, but if we think fast enough we might just live to lie about it. From mtearle@tartarus.uwa.edu.au Tue Jan 4 03:44:40 2000 From: mtearle@tartarus.uwa.edu.au (Mark Tearle) Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 11:44:40 +0800 (WST) Subject: [Mailman-Developers] unioned lists patch In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 3 Jan 2000, Mark Tearle wrote: > > The following is a local patch to Mailman (against 1.1, the latest version > of packaged up for debian anyhow) to effect unions lists. (ie for a > list of lists, each recipient will only get one copy if they are on more > than one list. ) > Oops, I forgot to attribute the author of the patch: Ben Rampling Yours Mark -- Mark Tearle - mtearle@tartarus.uwa.edu.au Captain Bipto: We did win, didn't we? Blaznee: No, but if we think fast enough we might just live to lie about it. From gorgo@sztaki.hu Tue Jan 4 12:43:56 2000 From: gorgo@sztaki.hu (Gergely Madarasz) Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 13:43:56 +0100 (MET) Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Re: Bug#54027: mailman should not send junk mail In-Reply-To: <20000104115947.J30957@finlandia.infodrom.north.de> Message-ID: On Tue, 4 Jan 2000, Martin Schulze wrote: > Package: mailman > > I've received the following mail from a mailman-driven list. I don't > want to get this but mailman doesn't seem to be able to configure this. It is able to configure this, but only at the list level, not at the subscriber level. I'm forwarding this bug upstream. > mailman-owner@lists.sourceforge.net wrote: > > This is a reminder, sent out once a month, about your > > lists.sourceforge.net mailing list memberships. It includes your > > subscription info and how to use it to change it or unsubscribe from a > > list. > > > > You can visit the URLs to change your membership status or > > configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery > > or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on. > > > > In addition to the URL interfaces, you can also use email to make such > > changes. For more info, send a message to the '-request' address of > > the list (for example, berlin-design-request@lists.sourceforge.net) > > containing just the word 'help' in the message body, and an email > > message will be sent to you with instructions. > > > > If you have questions, problems, comments, etc, send them to > > mailman-owner@lists.sourceforge.net. Thanks! > > > > Passwords for joey@infodrom.north.de: > > > > List Password // URL > > ---- -------- > > berlin-design@lists.sourceforge.net SOMETHING > > http://lists.sourceforge.net/mailman/options/berlin-design/joey@infodrom.north.de > > -- > There are lies, statistics and benchmarks. > > Please always Cc to me when replying to me on the lists. > -- Madarasz Gergely gorgo@sztaki.hu gorgo@linux.rulez.org It's practically impossible to look at a penguin and feel angry. Egy pingvinre gyakorlatilag lehetetlen haragosan nezni. HuLUG: http://mlf.linux.rulez.org/ From jafo@tummy.com Tue Jan 4 20:00:41 2000 From: jafo@tummy.com (Sean Reifschneider) Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 13:00:41 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Possibly new year or y2k issue? Message-ID: <20000104130041.E1104@tummy.com> I just got the following error from my mailman log watcher. It looks like there may be an issue with the arguments that are passed to mktime. This could be cause by some OTHER program generating bogus input (if a mail message had an invalid date in it). My first inclination would be to just use the current date if the mktime failed with ValueError. Sean ====================== MailMan Log Report Generated: Tue Jan 4 12:00:01 2000 #################################################### # FILE: /home/mailman/logs/error.20000104-120001 # #################################################### Jan 04 10:01:33 2000 post: Traceback (innermost last): post: File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/Archiver.py", line 216, in ArchiveMail post: h.processUnixMailbox(f, HyperArch.Article) post: File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/pipermail.py", line 379, in processUnixMailbox post: a=articleClass(m, self.sequence) # Create an article object post: File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/HyperArch.py", line 241, in __init__ post: date=time.mktime(date)-tzoffset post: ValueError: year out of range (00-99, 1900-*) -- These go to eleven. -- _This_is_Spinal_Tap_ Sean Reifschneider, Inimitably Superfluous URL: HP-UX/Linux/FreeBSD/BSDOS scanning software. From docwhat@gerf.org Wed Jan 5 09:27:17 2000 From: docwhat@gerf.org (The Doctor What) Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 01:27:17 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Q: Where are the MM- attributes in the source? Message-ID: <20000105012717.A16587@gerf.org> I have been irritated by the archive page that comes with mailman, so I am planning on doing something. :) So I have a question: Where are the MM- variable/tags defined in python code. You know, the ones that become the list name and such one the web-page. I spent several hours looking, but I can't find it. I'm sure it's my stupidity... My plan is to submit (for your approval ) some examples to drop in for the archives.html that use htdig to search that specific list, and a full blown page located at (the default) http://foo.host/pipermail/ because having the "private" lists exposed there bother me, and it would make a keen place for a search all (public) lists. Then I'll go looking for the stuff for individual month pages for each list. Has anyone done any work on "easy themes" for lists? It seems that some simple attributes could be set in the configuration section with little grief. Anyway, enough of me, I wanna see what get's written back. :) Ciao! -- The wheel is turning but the hamster is dead. The Doctor What: Need I say more? http://docwhat.gerf.org/ docwhat@gerf.org (finger docwhat@gerf.org for PGP key) KF6VNC From secabeen@pobox.com Thu Jan 6 16:55:53 2000 From: secabeen@pobox.com (Ted Cabeen) Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2000 10:55:53 -0600 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Re: [Mailman-Users] Posting-Filter is broken in 1.1 !? In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 06 Jan 2000 15:32:58 GMT." <200001061532.PAA02605@wivenhoe.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: <200001061655.KAA07446@entropy.uchicago.edu> In message <200001061532.PAA02605@wivenhoe.demon.co.uk>, Chris Fox writes: >On Mon, 03 Jan 2000 09:08:17 PST, J C Lawrence wrote: >>On Mon, 3 Jan 2000 10:30:03 +0100 >>Aaron Optimizer Digulla wrote: >>> 2. Some posts are held because Mailman uses the "Sender:" header >>> item added by Netscape (Mailman should ignore it). >> >>MailMan pays no attention to the Sender: header. It does by default >>read the message envelope and does ignore the From: header however, > >I also experience the reported problem, and requested help on this >list--subject: How to make Mailman more trusting of subscriber >supplied addresses--with no response (at least, none that reached >me). This is with USE_ENVELOPE_SENDER = 0, and it even when faking >the envelope from by piping through formail. At times, Mailman seems >to behave as if it uses the return-path: header. Since Barry doesn't seem to be around to respond to this, I'm going to attempt an answer. The relevant code that you're looking for is in Message.py at line 110 where Mailman checks the sender then the from: def GetSender(self): # Look for a Sender field. sender = self.getheader('sender') if sender: realname, mail_address = self.getaddr('sender') else: try: realname, mail_address = self.getaddr('from') except: real_name = mail_address = None Switching the sender and the from will check the From address first, then the sender. Here's a patch to do so. To use it, patch the two files and set USE_FROM_FIRST to 1 in your mm_cfg.py *** Message.py Sun Nov 7 10:48:54 1999 --- Message.py.new Thu Jan 6 10:42:50 2000 *************** *** 104,118 **** return self.file_data[self.file_count-1] + '\n' def GetSender(self): ! # Look for a Sender field. ! sender = self.getheader('sender') ! if sender: ! realname, mail_address = self.getaddr('sender') ! else: try: ! realname, mail_address = self.getaddr('from') ! except: real_name = mail_address = None # We can't trust that any of the headers really contained an address if mail_address and type(mail_address) == type(""): --- 104,127 ---- return self.file_data[self.file_count-1] + '\n' def GetSender(self): ! if mm_cfg.USE_FROM_FIRST: try: ! realname, mail_address = self.getaddr('from') ! except: real_name = mail_address = None + sender = self.getheader('sender') + if sender: + realname, mail_address = self.getaddr('sender') + else: + # Look for a Sender field. + sender = self.getheader('sender') + if sender: + realname, mail_address = self.getaddr('sender') + else: + try: + realname, mail_address = self.getaddr('from') + except: + real_name = mail_address = None # We can't trust that any of the headers really contained an address if mail_address and type(mail_address) == type(""): *** Defaults.py Sun Nov 7 10:48:51 1999 --- Defaults.py.new Thu Jan 6 10:45:11 2000 *************** *** 120,125 **** --- 120,128 ---- # spoofed messages may get through. USE_ENVELOPE_SENDER = 0 + # When true, mailman will check the from field before it checks the sender + # field, as sender is not set correctly by a number of MUAs + USE_FROM_FIRST = 0 # When true, mailman will consider user@host.domain to be the same address # as user@domain. If set to 0, mailman will consider user@host.domain to # be the same address as user@Host.DoMain, but different than user@domain. -- Ted Cabeen http://www.pobox.com/~secabeen secabeen@pobox.com Check Website or finger for PGP Public Key secabeen@midway.uchicago.edu "I have taken all knowledge to be my province." -F. Bacon cococabeen@aol.com "Human kind cannot bear very much reality."-T.S.Eliot 73126.626@compuserve.com From ricardo@miss-janet.com Thu Jan 6 21:45:02 2000 From: ricardo@miss-janet.com (Ricardo Kustner) Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 22:45:02 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] 1.2 admindb lock errors Message-ID: <20000106224502.E587@miss-janet.com> Hi, earlier i reported about errors I sometimes (well quite often actually) get when approving/discarding messages through the web interface... since i'm still getting this error everyday (with the latest cvs version) I'd like to help tracking down the error... It's not really producable; sometimes it happens, sometimes it doesn't... even when i only handle 10 out of 30 pending post requests, it can still happen that mailman generates an error. If anyone can tell me how to try to track down the error, please let me know ... Ricardo. -- From bwarsaw@cnri.reston.va.us (Barry A. Warsaw) Thu Jan 6 22:04:58 2000 From: bwarsaw@cnri.reston.va.us (Barry A. Warsaw) (Barry A. Warsaw) Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 17:04:58 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Mailman-Developers] 1.2 admindb lock errors References: <20000106224502.E587@miss-janet.com> Message-ID: <14453.4490.488825.806272@anthem.cnri.reston.va.us> >>>>> "RK" == Ricardo Kustner writes: RK> earlier i reported about errors I sometimes (well quite often RK> actually) get when approving/discarding messages through the RK> web interface... since i'm still getting this error everyday RK> (with the latest cvs version) I'd like to help tracking down RK> the error... RK> It's not really producable; sometimes it happens, sometimes it RK> doesn't... even when i only handle 10 out of 30 pending post RK> requests, it can still happen that mailman generates an error. RK> If anyone can tell me how to try to track down the error, RK> please let me know ... I used to see this error a lot too, but now I don't hit it at all with the current CVS snapshot. Take a look at logs/error and logs/locks and see if there's anything telltale there. Otherwise, we'll probably have to put more debugging in. I'm not going to be able to help much with this until after the Python conference. -Barry From garthc@abode.com Thu Jan 6 23:58:34 2000 From: garthc@abode.com (Garth Corral) Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 15:58:34 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Mailman-Developers] TODO: Search engine for archives In-Reply-To: <14453.4490.488825.806272@anthem.cnri.reston.va.us> Message-ID: I'm willing to take a crack at adding search functionality to the internal archiver if nobody else is already working on it. I'm willing to lend a hand if someone is working on it. Who "owns" the current archiver code? I don't want to step on anyone's toes and I have some questions about the current archiver architecture. Garth From claw@cp.net Fri Jan 7 00:10:54 2000 From: claw@cp.net (J C Lawrence) Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2000 16:10:54 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] TODO: Search engine for archives In-Reply-To: Message from Garth Corral of "Thu, 06 Jan 2000 15:58:34 PST." References: Message-ID: On Thu, 6 Jan 2000 15:58:34 -0800 (PST) Garth Corral wrote: > I'm willing to take a crack at adding search functionality to the > internal archiver if nobody else is already working on it. I'm > willing to lend a hand if someone is working on it. IIRC Pipermail is orphaned code. Its relatively minimal, the author has abandoned it, and nothing has been done with it for years. My own recommendation here is to NOT put search code into Pipermail or MailMan, but instead to add functioality so that custom HTML may be put into the various archive web pages. That HTML could then reference whatever search engine is installed at the local site (I use UdmSearch, other HT:DIG etc). -- J C Lawrence Internet: claw@kanga.nu ----------(*) Internet: coder@kanga.nu ...Honorary Member of Clan McFud -- Teamer's Avenging Monolith... From bwarsaw@python.org Fri Jan 7 00:22:53 2000 From: bwarsaw@python.org (Barry A. Warsaw) Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 19:22:53 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Mailman-Developers] TODO: Search engine for archives References: <14453.4490.488825.806272@anthem.cnri.reston.va.us> Message-ID: <14453.12765.219886.448668@anthem.cnri.reston.va.us> >>>>> "GC" == Garth Corral writes: GC> I'm willing to take a crack at adding search functionality to GC> the internal archiver if nobody else is already working on it. GC> I'm willing to lend a hand if someone is working on it. That would be very cool! GC> Who "owns" the current archiver code? I don't want to step on GC> anyone's toes and I have some questions about the current GC> archiver architecture. Andrew Kuchling wrote the original Pipermail code, and I think Scott Cotton did the integration to Mailman (I could be wrong about that). My colleague here at CNRI, Jeremy Hylton, did a bit of work improving the performance of Pipermail. Other than that, no one's really touched it much. I certainly don't have any interest in working on the Pipermail code, so I'd say go for it. If you have questions about the architecture, Andrew is probably the best person to ask (he's probably not on this mailing list though). Let me know if you plan to hack the code; I can send you the FSF forms that will be required. -Barry From andrew@violet.org Fri Jan 7 04:05:15 2000 From: andrew@violet.org (Andrew Perkins) Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 20:05:15 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Bounce Detection for: exim, postfix Message-ID: <20000106200515.B20262@violet.org> Apologies in advance for the cross-post, I realized that this topic may be better suited for *-developers than *-users... Hello everyone, It appears that bounce detection for various MTA's (exim, postfix) have not been implemented in mailman. For our sake, it is unfortunate that the MTA authors failed to arrive upon some similar error message format. I am *so* interested in bounce detection for exim (today) and postfix (in a couple of months) that I am willing to contribute to the mailman source tree. Although I do not currently write any python, I have a solid grasp of perl. I am definitely willing to learn python for this project. I am posting to this list to *be sure* that I am not re-inventing any wheels... Please respond to this message with *any* information you may have regarding other projects (within mailman or otherwise) that my have relevance to this. I understand that support for alternate MTA (i.e. not sendmail) bounce detection may be underway for mailman 1.2; if this is the case please point me to the CVS repository... Verbosity counts, please do not assume that I have thought of everything... Cordially, _____________________________________________ Andrew Perkins andrew@violet.org From jwt@dskk.co.jp Fri Jan 7 04:45:31 2000 From: jwt@dskk.co.jp (Jim Tittsler) Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 13:45:31 +0900 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Bounce Detection for: exim, postfix In-Reply-To: <20000106200515.B20262@violet.org> References: <20000106200515.B20262@violet.org> Message-ID: <20000107134531.A12045@mail.dskk.co.jp> On Thu, Jan 06, 2000 at 08:05:15PM -0800, Andrew Perkins wrote: > > my have relevance to this. I understand that support for alternate > MTA (i.e. not sendmail) bounce detection may be underway for mailman > 1.2; if this is the case please point me to the CVS repository... Yes, Barry has added support for several different "Bouncers" in the 1.2 development in an architecture that is straightforward to extend. He has bouncers for postfix, qmail, dsn, and some others. I've sent him a Bouncer for exim for consideration. (Exim is easy thanks to its X-Failed-Recipients header. :-) http://cvs.python.org/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/mailman/ Jim From ricardo@miss-janet.com Fri Jan 7 05:50:43 2000 From: ricardo@miss-janet.com (Ricardo Kustner) Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 06:50:43 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] 1.2 admindb lock errors In-Reply-To: <14453.4490.488825.806272@anthem.cnri.reston.va.us>; from bwarsaw@cnri.reston.va.us on Thu, Jan 06, 2000 at 05:04:58PM -0500 References: <20000106224502.E587@miss-janet.com> <14453.4490.488825.806272@anthem.cnri.reston.va.us> Message-ID: <20000107065042.A3841@miss-janet.com> On Thu, Jan 06, 2000 at 05:04:58PM -0500, Barry A. Warsaw wrote: > > >>>>> "RK" == Ricardo Kustner writes: > RK> If anyone can tell me how to try to track down the error, > RK> please let me know ... > I used to see this error a lot too, but now I don't hit it at all with > the current CVS snapshot. Take a look at logs/error and logs/locks > and see if there's anything telltale there. Otherwise, we'll probably well the only weird thing i notice is that i see a mailinglist.archiver.lock being timestamped, even though i have the archive option for this list disabled. Besides that i know too little about the locking mechanism to see what's going wrong :) Ricardo. -- From garthc@abode.com Fri Jan 7 08:49:20 2000 From: garthc@abode.com (Garth Corral) Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 00:49:20 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Mailman-Developers] TODO: Search engine for archives In-Reply-To: <14453.12765.219886.448668@anthem.cnri.reston.va.us> Message-ID: On Thu, 6 Jan 2000, Barry A. Warsaw wrote: > Let me know if you plan to hack the code; I can send you the FSF forms > that will be required. > I am planning to hack the code but there seems to be at least one person that doesn't think that this is a good idea. You can go ahead and send me the FSF forms but I'd be curious to hear what others think about this. If there is a concensus that effort in this area should focus providing an interface to external search tools, I think that it would probably be best left to other individuals. I would be happy to discuss the pros and cons of the various alternatives. My inclination would be to provide some indexing and search mechanism within the existing framework. There are several reasons for this, not the least of which is that it fits well with my motivation for doing this in the first place. > -Barry > Garth From claw@kanga.nu Fri Jan 7 09:12:59 2000 From: claw@kanga.nu (J C Lawrence) Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2000 01:12:59 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] TODO: Search engine for archives In-Reply-To: Message from Garth Corral of "Fri, 07 Jan 2000 00:49:20 PST." References: Message-ID: On Fri, 7 Jan 2000 00:49:20 -0800 (PST) Garth Corral wrote: > On Thu, 6 Jan 2000, Barry A. Warsaw wrote: > My inclination would be to provide some indexing and search > mechanism within the existing framework. There are several > reasons for this, not the least of which is that it fits well with > my motivation for doing this in the first place. I'll be a little more direct: I don't use MailMan's archiver and so have no direct interest in it. I use MHonArc externally it allows extremely fine grained control over how your archives appear and operate, and if you change your mind about something at later point, you can always regen them in the new look'n'feel (which I seem to do regularly). That said, the question arises of what is the exact value of MailMan's archiver. It is minimal in feature set and almost totally unconfigurable. This doesn't make it useless, just of very narrow application. If someone adds a search feature inside of MailMan/Pipermail, then MailMan remains having an internal archiver that is of minimal utility, just slightly less minimal than it was before. This is not a Bad Thing at all -- MailMan is improved and that is good. If someone builds a method where the basic HTML that the archiver produces can be edited or at least customised, then all of a sudden we have a rather large thing as then we can customise look'n'feel, we can embead search tools, we can embed banners ads for commercial sites, we can exploit local application servers like PHP or Zope, and we can customise the entire archive experience and presentation to our heart's content. We can do all sorts of things that are not possible now and which extend MailMan in interesting directions _encluding_ adding (external) search capabilities to the archives. Also not a Bad Thing. YMMV. Both are useful and valuable. BTW Barry: Remember the guy a while back who did a bunch of CSS stuff for MailMan for look'n'feel configuration? What happened to that patch? -- J C Lawrence Home: claw@kanga.nu ----------(*) Other: coder@kanga.nu --=| A man is as sane as he is dangerous to his environment |=-- From stu@ekins.net Fri Jan 7 09:14:27 2000 From: stu@ekins.net (Stu Ekins) Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 09:14:27 -0000 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] TODO: Search engine for archives Message-ID: > If there is a concensus that effort in this area should focus > providing > an interface to external search tools, I think that it would > probably be > best left to other individuals. I would be happy to discuss > the pros and > cons of the various alternatives. I would like to see some kind of indexing mechanism as part of the standard mailman distribution. My requirements for a search are such that only simple word/phrase searching is required, and something like ht:dig would be overkill. Perhaps it would be useful to have a mailman standard search, and then leave hooks in to allow integration with external search tools, should people require that. Personally, I'd like to see the index updated at the same time as the pipermail archives are, and it makes sense to have an indexing package that "understands" mailman, even if its an external module. > My inclination would be to provide some indexing and search mechanism > within the existing framework. There are several reasons for > this, not > the least of which is that it fits well with my motivation > for doing this > in the first place. Then I vote you do it, and I look forward to seeing what you come up with. You should fulfill your own requirements, even if other peoples' are different. If you leave it sufficiently open that other people can implement their own searches, then we end up with a stronger, more flexible and more open product. Mailman's at a stange now where confidence in it is growing. Many people I speak to are looking at it with interest, and choosing to deploy it. By making is a more rounded tool, it can only further increase its appeal as a complete mailing list solution, rather than just a another mailing list manager. Stu. From dan@feld.cvut.cz Fri Jan 7 09:20:13 2000 From: dan@feld.cvut.cz (Dan Ohnesorg) Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 10:20:13 +0100 (CET) Subject: [Mailman-Developers] TODO: Search engine for archives In-Reply-To: <14453.12765.219886.448668@anthem.cnri.reston.va.us> Message-ID: On Thu, 6 Jan 2000, Barry A. Warsaw wrote: > GC> I'm willing to take a crack at adding search functionality to > GC> the internal archiver if nobody else is already working on it. > GC> I'm willing to lend a hand if someone is working on it. > > That would be very cool! It would be very bad. You can see it on the included pipermail. It is not in sync with main developed version, slows down mailman, has bugs wich are in original version solved. I generally dont use included pipermail anymore. Mailman is best listserv software, but not best archiver. In compare with MHonArc is extremly poor. If you will add more code like this, you will run into troubles. There are fenomenal searchers, like htdig, glimpse, which are fast developed. There is one new version in one months. You will never have the time to sychnronize all the changes in mailman. If you will use extrenal searching tool, the way is very simple, you can only patch the mailman to generate the archives using external templates and then you can include in this templates input forms for searching in archives. It is simple and fast. But I think, when pipermail will be removed from mailman, it will stabilize the product very mutch. In default configuration can be included external archiver command. cheers dan -- ________________________________________ DDDDDD DD DD Dan Ohnesorg, supervisor on POWER DD OOOO Dan@feld.cvut.cz DD OODDOO Dep. of Power Engineering DDDDDD OO CTU FEL Prague, Bohemia OO OO work: +420 2 24352785;+420 2 24972109 OOOO home: +420 311 679679;+420 311 679311 ________________________________________ Dopisoval bych si rad s divkou. Zn. Negramotnost neni na zavadu. From dan@feld.cvut.cz Fri Jan 7 09:28:58 2000 From: dan@feld.cvut.cz (Dan Ohnesorg) Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 10:28:58 +0100 (CET) Subject: [Mailman-Developers] TODO: Search engine for archives In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 7 Jan 2000, Stu Ekins wrote: > Perhaps it would be useful to have a mailman standard search, and then leave > hooks in to allow integration with external search tools, should people > require that. Personally, I'd like to see the index updated at the same time > as the pipermail archives are, and it makes sense to have an indexing > package that "understands" mailman, even if its an external module. NO... update index on every message is very BAD think, it will kill every heavily loaded listserv definitly. There is no posibility to update sorted index fast enought. I have sometimes problems on peeks only with opening all the files which are included in mailman, even if they are cached. cheers dan -- ________________________________________ DDDDDD DD DD Dan Ohnesorg, supervisor on POWER DD OOOO Dan@feld.cvut.cz DD OODDOO Dep. of Power Engineering DDDDDD OO CTU FEL Prague, Bohemia OO OO work: +420 2 24352785;+420 2 24972109 OOOO home: +420 311 679679;+420 311 679311 ________________________________________ Na svete jsou dva prostredky, Jak se povznest: bud vlastnimi schopnostmi, anebo hlouposti jinych. From stu@ekins.net Fri Jan 7 09:36:27 2000 From: stu@ekins.net (Stu Ekins) Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 09:36:27 -0000 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] TODO: Search engine for archives Message-ID: > NO... update index on every message is very BAD think, it > will kill every > heavily loaded listserv definitly. There is no posibility to > update sorted > index fast enought. I have sometimes problems on peeks only > with opening > all the files which are included in mailman, even if they are cached. I didn't think pipermail ran for every message. What I meant was, have a replacement for /amendment of pipermail, which includes indexing. I didn't mean index every message in real time. From claw@kanga.nu Fri Jan 7 10:33:33 2000 From: claw@kanga.nu (J C Lawrence) Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2000 02:33:33 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] TODO: Search engine for archives In-Reply-To: Message from Dan Ohnesorg of "Fri, 07 Jan 2000 10:20:13 +0100." References: Message-ID: On Fri, 7 Jan 2000 10:20:13 +0100 (CET) Dan Ohnesorg wrote: > Mailman is best listserv software, but not best archiver. In > compare with MHonArc is extremly poor. As a side comment what is actually needed is something with MHonArc's configuration capabilities that stores the raw messages in an SQL database and then dynamically generates the HTML (and indexes) from the DB at runtime under a web server... -- J C Lawrence Home: claw@kanga.nu ----------(*) Other: coder@kanga.nu --=| A man is as sane as he is dangerous to his environment |=-- From fil@bok.net Fri Jan 7 13:58:16 2000 From: fil@bok.net (Fil) Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 14:58:16 +0100 (MET) Subject: [Mailman-Developers] dont request passwords from web subscriber patch Message-ID: Hi, could the maintainers tell me if this patch is accepted or rejected ? It's important to make it easy to subscribe ; and the patch does not diminish in anything the behavior of mailman or the possibilities of users, as the latter can choose to modify the random password created for them. Other important effect : it avoids that naive users give away their "real" (ie personal email's) password into our subscribers's databases. Thanks. Patch name : dont request passwords from web subscriber Patch by : 7 Jan 2000 File modified : Mailman/Cgi/subscribe.py Reason : do not request a password from the subscriber. It is cumbersome and not really usefull. Instead, create a random password (for compatibility with the current system accept the password given if one is given). diff subscribe.py subscribe.py-dist 126,127c126,128 < pw = Utils.MakeRandomPassword() < pwc = pw --- > error = 1 > results = (results > + "You must supply a valid password, and confirm > it.
") From docwhat@gerf.org Fri Jan 7 14:37:59 2000 From: docwhat@gerf.org (The Doctor What) Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 06:37:59 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] TODO: Search engine for archives In-Reply-To: ; from claw@cp.net on Thu, Jan 06, 2000 at 04:10:54PM -0800 References: Message-ID: <20000107063759.B21435@gerf.org> * J C Lawrence (claw@cp.net) [000106 18:12]: > On Thu, 6 Jan 2000 15:58:34 -0800 (PST) > Garth Corral wrote: > > > I'm willing to take a crack at adding search functionality to the > > internal archiver if nobody else is already working on it. I'm > > willing to lend a hand if someone is working on it. > > IIRC Pipermail is orphaned code. Its relatively minimal, the author > has abandoned it, and nothing has been done with it for years. > > My own recommendation here is to NOT put search code into Pipermail > or MailMan, but instead to add functioality so that custom HTML may > be put into the various archive web pages. That HTML could then > reference whatever search engine is installed at the local site (I > use UdmSearch, other HT:DIG etc). I had posted a message saying that I was willing (and am planning) on taking a stab at adding some example pages for adding search functionality. However, I am having a hard time locating where the "" HTML tags are pre-interpreted. If someone would point me in the direction, I have an example 90% done and will even produce documentation! And, I'd be more than happy to work with you, Garth. Ciao! -- Any given program, when running, is obsolete. The Doctor What: Need I say more? http://docwhat.gerf.org/ docwhat@gerf.org (finger docwhat@gerf.org for PGP key) KF6VNC From bwarsaw@cnri.reston.va.us (Barry A. Warsaw) Fri Jan 7 16:08:20 2000 From: bwarsaw@cnri.reston.va.us (Barry A. Warsaw) (Barry A. Warsaw) Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 11:08:20 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Bounce Detection for: exim, postfix References: <20000106200515.B20262@violet.org> Message-ID: <14454.3956.597012.706242@anthem.cnri.reston.va.us> >>>>> "AP" == Andrew Perkins writes: AP> Apologies in advance for the cross-post, I realized that this AP> topic may be better suited for *-developers than *-users... Oops! And I answered this on mailman-users. Andrew, you're right, please redirect follow ups to mailman-developers. -Barry From Nigel.Metheringham@vdata.co.uk Mon Jan 10 11:02:40 2000 From: Nigel.Metheringham@vdata.co.uk (Nigel Metheringham) Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 11:02:40 +0000 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Subscription bomb tracing - feature request. (fwd) Message-ID: I've forwarded this from the BUGTRAQ list for consideration - mainly mailman uses web subscription, which has different semantics, however we should think about trace back information for both web and mail based subscriptions. Nigel. ------- Forwarded Message Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 15:15:22 +1300 From: Alan Brown To: BUGTRAQ@SECURITYFOCUS.COM Subject: Subscription bomb tracing - feature request. There have been quite a few subscribe bombs tossed around recently. While it's nice to see that most mailing list admins use confirm requests now, it would be a great help if the confirm requests contained at least the headers of the original request, to aid victims in tracing their attacker(s). One attack recently notified to ORBS attempted to sign the victim up to 26,000 different lists via insecure email relays. The confirmation requests alone constituted a fairly substantial denial of service attack, as did the huge number of bounces the victim got. I've only ever seen one mailing list which actually showed where the signup request came from. Times are still changing and adding an audit trail would make life easier all round. AB ------- End of Forwarded Message -- [ - Opinions expressed are personal and may not be shared by VData - ] [ Nigel Metheringham Nigel.Metheringham@VData.co.uk ] [ Phone: +44 1423 850000 Fax +44 1423 858866 ] From csf@moscow.com Mon Jan 10 19:54:52 2000 From: csf@moscow.com (Michael Yount) Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 11:54:52 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Subscription bomb tracing - feature request. (fwd) In-Reply-To: Message from Nigel Metheringham of "Mon, 10 Jan 2000 11:02:40 GMT." Message-ID: :}I've forwarded this from the BUGTRAQ list for consideration - mainly :}mailman uses web subscription, which has different semantics, however :}we should think about trace back information for both web and mail :}based subscriptions. :} :} Nigel. :} It's a good feature. In majordomo 2, anyone who knows a confirmation token's ID can obtain the headers of the original message with the "tokeninfo" command via e-mail. IMO a list server that combined mailman's ease of configuration with Mj2's e-mail admin capabilities would be a killer app. Michael From bwarsaw@cnri.reston.va.us (Barry A. Warsaw) Mon Jan 10 20:10:48 2000 From: bwarsaw@cnri.reston.va.us (Barry A. Warsaw) (Barry A. Warsaw) Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 15:10:48 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Subscription bomb tracing - feature request. (fwd) References: Message-ID: <14458.15560.443663.837415@anthem.cnri.reston.va.us> >>>>> "MY" == Michael Yount writes: MY> It's a good feature. In majordomo 2, anyone who knows a MY> confirmation token's ID can obtain the headers of the original MY> message with the "tokeninfo" command via e-mail. Is Majordomo2 a reality? There doesn't seem to be much information on greatcircle about it, but then I've been out of the MD loop for a long time. MY> IMO a list server that combined mailman's ease of MY> configuration with Mj2's e-mail admin capabilities would be a MY> killer app. Maybe you can post a list of things in MD2 that you'd like to see in Mailman and we can start a discussion on what would be useful for us to implement? -Barry From lindsey@ncsa.uiuc.edu Mon Jan 10 20:41:22 2000 From: lindsey@ncsa.uiuc.edu (Christopher Lindsey) Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 14:41:22 -0600 (CST) Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Subscription bomb tracing - feature request. (fwd) In-Reply-To: <14458.15560.443663.837415@anthem.cnri.reston.va.us> from "Barry A. Warsaw" at Jan 10, 2000 03:10:48 PM Message-ID: <200001102041.OAA00114@glorfindel.ncsa.uiuc.edu> > MY> It's a good feature. In majordomo 2, anyone who knows a > MY> confirmation token's ID can obtain the headers of the original > MY> message with the "tokeninfo" command via e-mail. > > Is Majordomo2 a reality? There doesn't seem to be much information on > greatcircle about it, but then I've been out of the MD loop for a long > time. It's quasi-reality. Jason Tibbets has been working on it for a couple of years now, and when I last looked it was very promising. Unfortunately, he also likes to keep total control of the package, so offers for help, etc. fell on deaf ears. That's why we're shifting to Mailman at NCSA. The project is not related to greatcircle; it just happens to share the same name. http://www.hpc.uh.edu/majordomo/ Chris From bwarsaw@python.org Mon Jan 10 20:50:05 2000 From: bwarsaw@python.org (Barry A. Warsaw) Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 15:50:05 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Subscription bomb tracing - feature request. (fwd) References: <14458.15560.443663.837415@anthem.cnri.reston.va.us> <200001102041.OAA00114@glorfindel.ncsa.uiuc.edu> Message-ID: <14458.17917.873413.795837@anthem.cnri.reston.va.us> >>>>> "CL" == Christopher Lindsey writes: CL> It's quasi-reality. Jason Tibbets has been working on it for CL> a couple of years now, and when I last looked it was very CL> promising. Unfortunately, he also likes to keep total control CL> of the package, so offers for help, etc. fell on deaf ears. CL> That's why we're shifting to Mailman at NCSA. CL> The project is not related to greatcircle; it just happens to CL> share the same name. CL> http://www.hpc.uh.edu/majordomo/ Thanks for the link. There's some interesting stuff there in the MD2 feature list, many of which I think we could encorporate (did I say steal? :). -Barry From csf@moscow.com Mon Jan 10 22:32:20 2000 From: csf@moscow.com (Michael Yount) Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 14:32:20 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Mj2 and Mailman In-Reply-To: Message from Christopher Lindsey of "Mon, 10 Jan 2000 14:41:22 CST." <200001102041.OAA00114@glorfindel.ncsa.uiuc.edu> Message-ID: To be fair to Jason, I think the situation has changed. He's offered to share the project, and I know he's given commit privileges to at least one other person. Please see what he wrote at http://greatcircle.com/lists/majordomo-workers/mhonarc/majordomo-workers.200001/msg00016.html It will take me a few days to catch up with the latest improvements to Mailman, but once that happens, I'll share my feature request list with you all. Thanks, Michael :}> :}> Is Majordomo2 a reality? There doesn't seem to be much information on :}> greatcircle about it, but then I've been out of the MD loop for a long :}> time. :} :}It's quasi-reality. Jason Tibbets has been working on it for a couple of :}years now, and when I last looked it was very promising. Unfortunately, :}he also likes to keep total control of the package, so offers for help, :}etc. fell on deaf ears. That's why we're shifting to Mailman at NCSA. :} :}The project is not related to greatcircle; it just happens to share the :}same name. :} :} http://www.hpc.uh.edu/majordomo/ :} :}Chris :} From Nigel.Metheringham@vdata.co.uk Wed Jan 12 13:18:03 2000 From: Nigel.Metheringham@vdata.co.uk (Nigel Metheringham) Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 13:18:03 +0000 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Precedence of mailman generated messages Message-ID: A number of MTAs generate delay warning messages for messages that cannot be delivered within a certain period of time. This is normally disabled for messages with Precedence headers that declare them to be list/bulk/junk mail. The *list* messages sent out by mailman do have this precedence header (thankfully - I have been mailbombed in the past by MTAs that ignored the precedence). However admin mesages, including message bounce copies, are sent on without added Precedence. It would suit me personally if admin messages also had Precedence set down - would that be a good thing in general? Nigel. -- [ - Opinions expressed are personal and may not be shared by VData - ] [ Nigel Metheringham Nigel.Metheringham@VData.co.uk ] [ Phone: +44 1423 850000 Fax +44 1423 858866 ] From dan@feld.cvut.cz Wed Jan 12 19:56:21 2000 From: dan@feld.cvut.cz (Dan Ohnesorg) Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 20:56:21 +0100 (CET) Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Precedence of mailman generated messages In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 12 Jan 2000, Nigel Metheringham wrote: > A number of MTAs generate delay warning messages for messages that > cannot be delivered within a certain period of time. This is normally > disabled for messages with Precedence headers that declare them to be > list/bulk/junk mail. > > The *list* messages sent out by mailman do have this precedence header > (thankfully - I have been mailbombed in the past by MTAs that ignored > the precedence). However admin mesages, including message bounce > copies, are sent on without added Precedence. > > It would suit me personally if admin messages also had Precedence set > down - would that be a good thing in general? Yes I agree, but sending of warnigs messages is controlled by DSN, which is also in mailman supported too. But probably not on every place. Precence bulk is bad due to filering rules on client side, some peoples will read bulk messages only sometimes. Due i18n of mailman, there is needed object which will know how to send 8bit admin messages and shloud support QP too for compatibility with older mailers. This can implment DSN in admin messages too. cheers dan -- ________________________________________ DDDDDD DD DD Dan Ohnesorg, supervisor on POWER DD OOOO Dan@feld.cvut.cz DD OODDOO Dep. of Power Engineering DDDDDD OO CTU FEL Prague, Bohemia OO OO work: +420 2 24352785;+420 2 24972109 OOOO home: +420 311 679679;+420 311 679311 ________________________________________ Jamese Rustona zabil kulovy blesk. Byla to velka udalost. Byl po dvaceti letech prvnim obcanem Stonevillu, ktery zemrel prirozenou smrti. From secabeen@pobox.com Fri Jan 14 17:27:22 2000 From: secabeen@pobox.com (Ted Cabeen) Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 11:27:22 -0600 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Digest Volumes Feature Request... Message-ID: <200001141727.LAA29333@entropy.uchicago.edu> Currently there is no mechanism for starting a new Digest volume. I was hoping that it would roll over to Volume 2 on the 1st, but that didn't happen. Is this expected for 1.2, or did I just miss the option somewhere? -- Ted Cabeen http://www.pobox.com/~secabeen secabeen@pobox.com Check Website or finger for PGP Public Key secabeen@midway.uchicago.edu "I have taken all knowledge to be my province." -F. Bacon cococabeen@aol.com "Human kind cannot bear very much reality."-T.S.Eliot 73126.626@compuserve.com From bbum@codefab.com Fri Jan 14 22:29:02 2000 From: bbum@codefab.com (Bill Bumgarner) Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 17:29:02 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] What does this comment mean??? Message-ID: <200001142229.RAA01485@bjork.codefab.com> In ToArchive.py [Handlers/], there is the following hunk o' code: def process(mlist, msg): # short circuits if getattr(msg, 'isdigest', 0): return # TBD: this needs to be converted to the new pipeline machinery mlist.ArchiveMail(msg) I'm curious what the TBD: comment actually means. (I'm in the process of ripping out pipermail and modifying MailMan's archival mechanism to use WebDAV to archive messages. This also includes the ability to file attachments seperately and rewrite the outbound message such that all of the attachments are turned into URLs to the archive server. Obviously, all the changes will be contributed back to the community and I would like to make such changes in the most compliant manner possible.) thanks, b.bum From mss@transas.com Sat Jan 15 23:03:01 2000 From: mss@transas.com (Michael Sobolev) Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2000 02:03:01 +0300 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] What does this comment mean??? In-Reply-To: <200001142229.RAA01485@bjork.codefab.com>; from bbum@codefab.com on Fri, Jan 14, 2000 at 05:29:02PM -0500 References: <200001142229.RAA01485@bjork.codefab.com> Message-ID: <20000116020301.A20298@transas.com> [ This should be a personal message, I believe ;) ] On Fri, Jan 14, 2000 at 05:29:02PM -0500, Bill Bumgarner wrote: > I'm curious what the TBD: comment actually means. To be done. Cheers, -- Mike From csf@moscow.com Sun Jan 16 04:52:05 2000 From: csf@moscow.com (Michael Yount) Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2000 20:52:05 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Subscription bomb tracing - feature request. (fwd) In-Reply-To: Message from "Barry A. Warsaw" of "Mon, 10 Jan 2000 15:50:05 EST." <14458.17917.873413.795837@anthem.cnri.reston.va.us> Message-ID: :} CL> http://www.hpc.uh.edu/majordomo/ :} :}Thanks for the link. There's some interesting stuff there in the MD2 :}feature list, many of which I think we could encorporate (did I say :}steal? :). :} :}-Barry Yes, it has some excellent features, although it's not at present easy to use. 'Spent a couple of hours testing the latest mailman from CVS. You all have made excellent progress since last spring. Here's my top 10 wish list for mailman: 1. A way to search the subscriber list Mj2's who command can handle regular expressions, to a limited extent. This is the single feature I've found essential for list management. 2. A better integration of multiple mailing lists on the same site. Mj2's access rules allow the use of subscriber/auxiliary groups from other mailing lists on the same site. Also, one of my fellow mailman list owners wrote to me: """ A couple of things I really miss in mailman: 1. The "Which" command. I manage several lists and it is frustrating to get a message that says unsubscribe, you don't know which list they are on, sometimes they don't know which list they were on. Hate having to check each list individually. In majordomo you could just type "which" and their email address and get a list of all the lists they were on. 2. Sure would like to have names attached to the email addresses. """ 3. A third choice for moderated messages: send the message to the archive, but don't distribute it on the list. Mj2 does not have this feature, but we implemented it as an add-on hack to listproc. During several week-long book seminars, this feature was a compromise between overwhelming the book's author and totally rejecting messages which would be worthwhile under ordinary circumstances. 4. A fourth choice for moderated messages: revise and resubmit. Some seminar moderators used this feature heavily, adding their comments to a moderated message and sending it back for improvement. We used a textarea and an "include original" button to allow people to mix the original message with the moderators' comments. This is an area where e-mail might be easier than WWW moderation, since the moderators can more easily use their favorite editor. This was also a listproc add-on. 5. Better archive retrieval Mj2's archive command (I just managed to get it working this week) has a strange but flexible syntax for retrieving messages. One can use a count, a message's ID number, or a date to indicate messages. A hyphen is used to indicate ranges. For example: 3 Retrieve the last three messages 19991018 Retrieve all messages Oct. 18 of last year 199910/5 - 200001/4 Retrieve all messages btwn. the 5th message in the October 1999 archive and the 4th message in the January 2000 archive. 10 - 4 Retrieve the 10 messages immediately preceding the fourth most recent message in the archive. :) Either messages (archive-get) or a numbered index (archive-index) may be retrieved. I believe listserv and ezmlm have similar features. 6. Timed vacations listar and mj2 both allow one to postpone mail for a certain number of days or weeks. 7. Rewritefrom mj2 has a "rewritefrom" subscriber option that changes my From: line comment when I post messages from my name to something like "List Owner: Don't Tread on Me" or "Someone Completely Different." 8. NoSubjectPrefix & NoReplyTo Unhappy with the list owner's choices? No problem. Mj2's subject-stripping feature allowed me to do an interesting thing with a reflector: the original mailing list has a subject prefix, but by default the subscribers to the reflector don't see it, although they have the option to change that. 9. Multiple digests Mj2 also has index digests (subjects and authors only), and a lot of flexibility in determining when and what size digests are delivered. 10. Rotating fronters and footers Mj2 will select one randomly for each message posted. 10. Auxiliary passwords An Mj2 list owner can define auxiliary passwords that are valid for a restricted set of commands, like listproc's "subscription manager" setting, but with more flexibility. Thanks for listening. Michael From ricardo@rixhq.nu Sun Jan 16 12:00:44 2000 From: ricardo@rixhq.nu (Ricardo Kustner) Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2000 13:00:44 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] dupl. admin posts in 1.2 cvs Message-ID: <20000116130044.A13024@miss-janet.com> Hi, Since i've been using the cvs version of mailman, I noticed receiving 2 copies of mail send to the list and mail send to listname-admin@hostname.org ... I finally had some time to try to figure out why this happens... first i thought i made a mistake in the postfix config, but then i saw the following lines in scripts/mailowner msg.recips = mlist.owner[:] # for debugging purposes msg.recips.append(mm_cfg.MAILMAN_OWNER) so this means the mailman owner gets a copy of all mail send to listname-admin... In my case I'm the MAILMAN_OWNER too so that's why i'm getting duplicated messages... but since I'm getting dupl. list email too, does this mean the MAILMAN_OWNER gets copies of all list messages too? On second thought... I have another (low traffic) list running on the same system, but that one doesnt send me dupl. mail... weird... Ricardo. -- From bbum@codefab.com Sun Jan 16 17:06:07 2000 From: bbum@codefab.com (Bill Bumgarner) Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2000 12:06:07 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] TBD Message-ID: <200001161706.MAA08694@bjork.codefab.com> I know that TBD: Means "To Be Done:".... I was curious as to actually what is intended to be done to the archiver. I.e. is ToUsenet a better model of how it should work? I hope so-- because that is the model I'm using to build WebDAV support. thanks, b.bum From jmackenzie@local.ie Mon Jan 17 13:16:49 2000 From: jmackenzie@local.ie (John MacKenzie) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 13:16:49 +0000 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Archives Problem/ Message-ID: <00011713185703.09997@samsara.local.ie> Hi guys, I posted this query to Mailman users, and got no response. My boss is going through me for a short cut over this, so I hope you can help. Basically , My archives don't appear to be updating, and I'm recieving "bogus archive directory" messages from the cronjobs. Anyone know what might cause this and how to fix? Many thanks - John -- John MacKenzie | Unix Systems Admin | e: mailto:jmackenzie@local.ie ___________________________________________________________________ Stay in touch your local area through Local Ireland http://chat.local.ie/chat/index.html ___________________________________________________________________ local ireland | dublin | new york | http://www.local.ie t: +353 1 676 8996 f: +353 1 283 9988 From bwarsaw@cnri.reston.va.us (Barry A. Warsaw) Mon Jan 17 18:49:29 2000 From: bwarsaw@cnri.reston.va.us (Barry A. Warsaw) (Barry A. Warsaw) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 13:49:29 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Mailman-Developers] What does this comment mean??? References: <200001142229.RAA01485@bjork.codefab.com> Message-ID: <14467.25657.429258.945351@anthem.cnri.reston.va.us> >>>>> "BB" == Bill Bumgarner writes: BB> In ToArchive.py [Handlers/], there is the following hunk o' BB> code: BB> def process(mlist, msg): BB> # short circuits if getattr(msg, 'isdigest', 0): return # BB> TBD: this needs to be converted to the new pipeline machinery BB> mlist.ArchiveMail(msg) BB> I'm curious what the TBD: comment actually means. It means that the glue code between Mailman and Pipermail was too hairy for me to properly recode using the new handler architecture, so for this go 'round, I just did a simple port of the archive call. My thinking is that the MailList mixin class should not include the archive class (or if so, then just what is necessary for web configurability). BB> (I'm in the process of ripping out pipermail and modifying BB> MailMan's archival mechanism to use WebDAV to archive BB> messages. This also includes the ability to file attachments BB> seperately and rewrite the outbound message such that all of BB> the attachments are turned into URLs to the archive server. BB> Obviously, all the changes will be contributed back to the BB> community and I would like to make such changes in the most BB> compliant manner possible.) In that case, you can essentially throw away ToArchive, or maybe rename it ToPipermail. If you can share some of the web configuration stuff with the existing class, that would be great. -Barry From ricardo@rixhq.nu Mon Jan 17 22:02:35 2000 From: ricardo@rixhq.nu (Ricardo Kustner) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 23:02:35 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] small patch for admindb.py Message-ID: <20000117230235.J23742@miss-janet.com> Below is a small patch for Mailman/Cgi/admindb.py (latest 1.2 cvs) to seperate the message header for the body of messages that are being held for approval, so it makes it much easier to read the messages... some people might want to be able to see the message headers anyway, so maybe it could be made as an config option? it could be that there's some function in the MM code somewhere that does the same, but since my knowledge is limited to admindb.py, this is all i could think of (I'm still waiting for some sort of Oreilly "Mailman Developers Guide in nutshell" book to be released ;) ) this patch only shows the message body... I tried putting the header in a html box (so clicking it would expand the list), but that didn't turn out as i expected... Ricardo. *** admindb.py Mon Jan 17 22:24:17 2000 --- /usr/local/cvs/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/admindb.py Mon Nov 15 23:29:46 1999 *************** *** 195,212 **** form.AddItem(Center(Header(2, msg))) try: fp = open(os.path.join(mm_cfg.DATA_DIR, filename)) ! # text = fp.read(mm_cfg.ADMINDB_PAGE_TEXT_LIMIT) ! msg_header = "" ! msg_body = "" ! for line in fp.readlines(): ! if msg_body == "": ! if line != "\n": ! msg_header = msg_header + line ! else: ! msg_body = line ! else: ! msg_body = msg_body + line ! fp.close() except IOError, (code, msg): if code == ENOENT: --- 195,201 ---- form.AddItem(Center(Header(2, msg))) try: fp = open(os.path.join(mm_cfg.DATA_DIR, filename)) ! text = fp.read(mm_cfg.ADMINDB_PAGE_TEXT_LIMIT) fp.close() except IOError, (code, msg): if code == ENOENT: *************** *** 241,247 **** row, col = t.GetCurrentRowIndex(), t.GetCurrentCellIndex() t.AddCellInfo(row, col, colspan=3) t.AddRow([Bold('Message Excerpt:'), ! TextArea('fulltext-%d' % id, msg_body, rows=10, cols=60)]) row, col = t.GetCurrentRowIndex(), t.GetCurrentCellIndex() t.AddCellInfo(row, col, colspan=3) form.AddItem(t) --- 230,236 ---- row, col = t.GetCurrentRowIndex(), t.GetCurrentCellIndex() t.AddCellInfo(row, col, colspan=3) t.AddRow([Bold('Message Excerpt:'), ! TextArea('fulltext-%d' % id, text, rows=10, cols=60)]) row, col = t.GetCurrentRowIndex(), t.GetCurrentCellIndex() t.AddCellInfo(row, col, colspan=3) form.AddItem(t) From jer@jorsm.com Mon Jan 17 23:57:05 2000 From: jer@jorsm.com (Jeremy Shaffner) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 17:57:05 -0600 (CST) Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Re: [Mailman-Users] Custom username (fwd) Message-ID: [Forwarding a copy to from -users] You're not following me: if test -z "$MAILMAN_UID" then cat > conftest.py <&6 rm -f conftest.out conftest.py if test -z "$MAILMAN_UID" then { echo "configure: error: ***** No \"mailman\" user found! ^^^^^^^ ***** Your system must have a \"mailman\" user defined (usually ***** in your /etc/passwd file). Please see the INSTALL file ***** file details." 1>&2; exit 1; } fi It's not the UID that's the problem, its that the username is expected to be the literal string 'mailman'. The configure script fails, never generating the Makefile you keep telling me to edit. So a --with-username=NAME is in order. -Jeremy On Fri, 14 Jan 2000, Saille Warner Norton wrote: > Run configure. Then edit the makefile to change the mailman_uid variable. > Then compile. It will compile mailman under whatever UID you gave it. > > Worked when I did it. > > Saille > > At 09:28 PM 01/14/2000 -0600, you wrote: > > >Except that 'mailman' is hardcoded into lots of places, including > >the configure[.in] script. It doesn't get far enough to generate a > >Makefile. > > > >-Jeremy > > > >On Fri, 14 Jan 2000, Saille Warner Norton wrote: > > > > > Try editing your "MAILMAN_UID" option in your Makefile. > > > > > > > > > At 04:47 PM 01/14/2000 -0600, Jeremy Shaffner wrote: > > > > > > >Why isn't there a configure option to install Mailman as a user other > > > >than 'mailman'? A --with-username=NAME would be excellent. > > > > > > > >I ask because 'mailman' has already in use by one of our users. Probably > > > >a postal worker. :) > > > > > > > >-Jeremy > > > > > -=========================================================================- Jeremy Shaffner JORSM Internet, Regional Internet Services System Administrator 7 Area Codes in Chicagoland and NW Indiana jer@jorsm.com 100Mbps+ Connectivity, 56K-DS3, V.90, ISDN support@jorsm.com Quality Service, Affordable Prices http://www.jorsm.com Serving Gov't, Business, Individuals Since 1995 -=========================================================================- ------------------------------------------------------ Mailman-Users maillist - Mailman-Users@python.org http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users From julian7@kva.hu Tue Jan 18 13:30:39 2000 From: julian7@kva.hu (Balazs Nagy) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 14:30:39 +0100 (CET) Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Reply goes to list error Message-ID: This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text, while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools. Send mail to mime@docserver.cac.washington.edu for more info. --1825891041-1436846583-948202239=:4417 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Hi, I know that reply to the list address is obsolete and not supported but in my list there're a bunch of people who claim this feature. It worked in the last version but the CVS version doesn't use this option anymore. Here's the patch. -- Regards: Kevin (Balazs) --1825891041-1436846583-948202239=:4417 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; name="cleanse.diff" Content-Transfer-Encoding: BASE64 Content-ID: Content-Description: Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="cleanse.diff" LS0tIE1haWxtYW4vSGFuZGxlcnMvQ2xlYW5zZS5weS5vcmlnCVR1ZSBKYW4g MTggMTM6MTc6MzYgMjAwMA0KKysrIE1haWxtYW4vSGFuZGxlcnMvQ2xlYW5z ZS5weQlUdWUgSmFuIDE4IDEzOjE4OjQzIDIwMDANCkBAIC0yOCw2ICsyOCwx MCBAQA0KICAgICAgICAgZGVsIG1zZ1snc2VuZGVyJ10NCiAgICAgICAgIG1z Z1snRnJvbSddID0gbWxpc3QuR2V0QWRtaW5FbWFpbCgpDQogICAgICAgICBt c2dbJ1JlcGx5LVRvJ10gPSBtbGlzdC5HZXRMaXN0RW1haWwoKQ0KKyAgICBl bHNlOg0KKyAgICAgICAgaWYgbWxpc3QucmVwbHlfZ29lc190b19saXN0Og0K KwkgICAgZGVsIG1zZ1sncmVwbHktdG8nXQ0KKwkgICAgbXNnWydSZXBseS1U byddID0gbWxpc3QuR2V0TGlzdEVtYWlsKCkNCiAgICAgIw0KICAgICAjIFNv bWUgaGVhZGVycyBjYW4gYmUgdXNlZCB0byBmaXNoIGZvciBtZW1iZXJzaGlw DQogICAgIGRlbCBtc2dbJ3JldHVybi1yZWNlaXB0LXRvJ10NCg== --1825891041-1436846583-948202239=:4417-- From Dan Mick Wed Jan 19 03:41:24 2000 From: Dan Mick (Dan Mick) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 19:41:24 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Q: Where are the MM- attributes in the source? Message-ID: <200001190341.TAA11615@utopia.West.Sun.COM> > So I have a question: Where are the MM- variable/tags defined > in python code. You know, the ones that become the list name and > such one the web-page. I spent several hours looking, but I can't > find it. I'm sure it's my stupidity... I spent about ten minutes frustrated by this, too, until I used "grep -i". (They're in the code, just not in that case. Grr.) From docwhat@gerf.org Wed Jan 19 04:03:18 2000 From: docwhat@gerf.org (The Doctor What) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 20:03:18 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Q: Where are the MM- attributes in the source? In-Reply-To: <200001190341.TAA11615@utopia.West.Sun.COM>; from Dan.Mick@West.Sun.COM on Tue, Jan 18, 2000 at 07:41:24PM -0800 References: <200001190341.TAA11615@utopia.West.Sun.COM> Message-ID: <20000118200318.C4840@gerf.org> * Dan Mick (Dan.Mick@West.Sun.COM) [000118 21:41]: > > > So I have a question: Where are the MM- variable/tags defined > > in python code. You know, the ones that become the list name and > > such one the web-page. I spent several hours looking, but I can't > > find it. I'm sure it's my stupidity... > > I spent about ten minutes frustrated by this, too, until I used > "grep -i". (They're in the code, just not in that case. Grr.) I just realized that sigma@pari.net, who told me where they where (and I kicked my self afterwards, too) didn't post to the group. I haven't had time to look at it much more, but someone said they were going to trash the whole pipermail in favor of something else, so now I'm not sure I want to expend the effort. *sigh* Ciao! -- "There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy." -- Wm. Shakespeare, (Hamlet) The Doctor What: Need I say more? http://docwhat.gerf.org/ docwhat@gerf.org (finger docwhat@gerf.org for PGP key) KF6VNC From bruce@perens.com Wed Jan 19 17:52:28 2000 From: bruce@perens.com (Bruce Perens) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 09:52:28 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Admin overview page should list number of pending admin requests per list Message-ID: <20000119175228.67F911FF03B@perens.com> Here's a feature request. I administrer about 10 lists. To see what the pending admin requests are, I either have to look in my mailbox for nudges from the server, or click on the "handle administrative requests" link for _every_ list. What I want is to be able to see this for all lists at a glance. Please modify the admin overview page to indicate, for each list, that the list has pending administrative requests. Listing the number of requests would be best, so that I can see if administrators of individual lists are keeping up with their requests. Thanks Bruce From bwarsaw@cnri.reston.va.us (Barry A. Warsaw) Wed Jan 19 17:33:43 2000 From: bwarsaw@cnri.reston.va.us (Barry A. Warsaw) (Barry A. Warsaw) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 12:33:43 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Admin overview page should list number of pending admin requests per list References: <20000119175228.67F911FF03B@perens.com> Message-ID: <14469.62839.700229.701854@anthem.cnri.reston.va.us> >>>>> "BP" == Bruce Perens writes: BP> Here's a feature request. I administrer about 10 lists. To see BP> what the pending admin requests are, I either have to look in BP> my mailbox for nudges from the server, or click on the "handle BP> administrative requests" link for _every_ list. What I want BP> is to be able to see this for all lists at a glance. As admin for about a dozen lists on python.org, I completely agree! -Barry From johanc@torped.se Fri Jan 21 09:54:05 2000 From: johanc@torped.se (Johan Carlsson) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 10:54:05 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Mailman Zope Integration Product In-Reply-To: <00011713185703.09997@samsara.local.ie> Message-ID: <000701bf63f5$74454fa0$ac0aa8c0@tor.torped.se> Hi all, I'm planing to write a Zope Product that integrates with Mailman. In the first iterations the main goal is to provide=20 users management of their mailing list account. In coming iterations I planing to extend with an administration management interface and archive access (with possible ZCatalog integration). Are there anyone else doing stuff with Zope? And what I need to consider? Especially how to handle multiple simultaneous=20 management accesses? (When and how do I need to use locks?) Any ideas are welcome? Regards, Johan Carlsson From adhir@forumone.com Fri Jan 21 15:32:10 2000 From: adhir@forumone.com (Alok Dhir) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 10:32:10 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] CVS Snapshots Message-ID: How can I get access to the CVS repository for Mailman? Thanks From sigma@pair.com Fri Jan 21 15:45:53 2000 From: sigma@pair.com (sigma@pair.com) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 10:45:53 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Mailman-Developers] www.pairlist.net Message-ID: <20000121154553.5714.qmail@smx.pair.com> Hi, this is Kevin Martin at pair Networks, Inc. We're running a test system with Mailman and Postfix, at the http://www.pairlist.net/ site. It's slated to replace the proprietary, closed-source mailing list manager we had been developing for the last year. Our customers have been using the system since early January - there are about 150 active lists - and they're all very happy with it. We've made very few modifications to Mailman, because we want to stay close to the source and encourage its development. Right now, use of the service is free to our Web hosting customers. How can we contribute to this project? No one here is a decent Python programmer. I'd like to be on good terms with the developers, and support them in some way - I'm open to suggestions. There are very few bugs to speak of; mostly we only get feature requests from our customers. I don't think feature requests have a suitable place in Jitterbug, so I've attached them briefly below. - true virtual domain support to allow conflicting listnames - search engine for archives - ability to edit archives (whether this means Pipermail or replacing it) - save a copy of all subscription requests, for tracking later - ability to customize *all* e-mail to subscribers, including the stuff that's hardcoded; this allows support for other languages, for example - don't mention turned-off features in the subscriber welcome message - more e-mail based administration, to match Web features - support for distribution list only (no subscriber sending) - ability to have subscribers with automatic random passwords - statistics on deliveries/day and performance - To: field to have real recipient, or other X- field, for matching by procmail later, or for tracking down unwanted subscriptions I know nobody invited us to setup a service with Mailman, nor did we consult with anyone beforehand. We do intend to charge for high-volume usage of the pairlist.net service in the future, because we'll be supplying bandwidth, servers, and support. I hope we can have a good relationship with the developers. Thanks for listening. Does anyone know of other commercially-oriented list hosting services that might use Mailman? Wasn't there one a few months ago? Kevin Martin sigma@pair.com From rixhq.nu@miss-janet.com Fri Jan 21 16:27:37 2000 From: rixhq.nu@miss-janet.com (Ricardo Kustner) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 17:27:37 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] CVS Snapshots In-Reply-To: ; from adhir@forumone.com on Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 10:32:10AM -0500 References: Message-ID: <20000121172737.A28797@miss-janet.com> On Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 10:32:10AM -0500, Alok Dhir wrote: > How can I get access to the CVS repository for Mailman? all the info is here: http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-checkins Ricardo. From petrilli@amber.org Fri Jan 21 16:38:58 2000 From: petrilli@amber.org (Christopher Petrilli) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 11:38:58 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Mailman Zope Integration Product In-Reply-To: <000701bf63f5$74454fa0$ac0aa8c0@tor.torped.se>; from johanc@torped.se on Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 10:54:05AM +0100 References: <00011713185703.09997@samsara.local.ie> <000701bf63f5$74454fa0$ac0aa8c0@tor.torped.se> Message-ID: <20000121113858.A2065@trump.amber.org> Johan Carlsson [johanc@torped.se] wrote: > Hi all, > I'm planing to write a Zope Product that integrates > with Mailman. > In the first iterations the main goal is to provide > users management of their mailing list account. > In coming iterations I planing to extend with > an administration management interface and archive > access (with possible ZCatalog integration). > > Are there anyone else doing stuff with Zope? > And what I need to consider? > Especially how to handle multiple simultaneous > management accesses? (When and how do I need to > use locks?) > Any ideas are welcome? We (Digital Creations) have a potential project that would modify Mailman to be able to run wih SQL storage of its information (primarily members and subscription information), which would then be managed through Zope. ZCatalog integration wouldn't be too hard, honestly. Chris -- | Christopher Petrilli | petrilli@amber.org From johanc@torped.se Fri Jan 21 17:30:53 2000 From: johanc@torped.se (Johan Carlsson) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 18:30:53 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Mailman Zope Integration Product In-Reply-To: <20000121113858.A2065@trump.amber.org> Message-ID: <000d01bf6435$4460c4a0$ac0aa8c0@tor.torped.se> > > Hi all, > > I'm planing to write a Zope Product that integrates > > with Mailman. > > In the first iterations the main goal is to provide=20 > > users management of their mailing list account. > > In coming iterations I planing to extend with > > an administration management interface and archive > > access (with possible ZCatalog integration). > >=20 > > Are there anyone else doing stuff with Zope? > > And what I need to consider? > > Especially how to handle multiple simultaneous=20 > > management accesses? (When and how do I need to > > use locks?) > > Any ideas are welcome? >=20 > We (Digital Creations) have a potential project that would modify = Mailman > to be able to run wih SQL storage of its information (primarily = members > and subscription information), which would then be managed through = Zope. (Hi Chris,) That's sound like a great id=E9! I suppost it would be integrated with the Portal Toolkit=20 membership management as well? > ZCatalog integration wouldn't be too hard, honestly. Probably not :-) As I see it right know there might be problems with multiple users form diffrent thread acquiering a lock on a list. How is this handled by the cgi-scripts in mailman? //Johan From petrilli@amber.org Fri Jan 21 17:55:09 2000 From: petrilli@amber.org (Christopher Petrilli) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 12:55:09 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Mailman Zope Integration Product In-Reply-To: <000d01bf6435$4460c4a0$ac0aa8c0@tor.torped.se>; from johanc@torped.se on Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 06:30:53PM +0100 References: <20000121113858.A2065@trump.amber.org> <000d01bf6435$4460c4a0$ac0aa8c0@tor.torped.se> Message-ID: <20000121125509.C2065@trump.amber.org> Johan Carlsson [johanc@torped.se] wrote: > > We (Digital Creations) have a potential project that would modify Mailman > > to be able to run wih SQL storage of its information (primarily members > > and subscription information), which would then be managed through Zope. > > (Hi Chris,) > That's sound like a great idé! > I suppost it would be integrated with the Portal Toolkit > membership management as well? The idea is that you would retreive Zope membership and Mailman membership from a single relational storage. This is especially important with really large sites. So yes it would be integrated. > > ZCatalog integration wouldn't be too hard, honestly. > Probably not :-) You could probably us ZClient to bang each message in as it shows up, and instantiate a ZClass. WE've index 18,500 messages in ZCatalog on just a regular desktop Linux box (nothing fancy, mayb 128Mb RAM, though I think 64MB), and retreival time is on the order of 1/10th - 1/4 second for most searches. Now the actual indexing was much more expensive, but done one at a time, it shouldn't be a major issue. Note that what we're talking about wouldn't be for managing list options, just for membership. Chris -- | Christopher Petrilli | petrilli@amber.org From johanc@torped.se Fri Jan 21 18:01:19 2000 From: johanc@torped.se (Johan Carlsson) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 19:01:19 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Mailman Zope Integration Product In-Reply-To: <20000121125509.C2065@trump.amber.org> Message-ID: <000e01bf6439$84d30a80$ac0aa8c0@tor.torped.se> > > (Hi Chris,) > > That's sound like a great id=E9! > > I suppost it would be integrated with the Portal Toolkit=20 > > membership management as well? > The idea is that you would retreive Zope membership and Mailman = membership > from a single relational storage. This is especially important=20 > with really large sites. So yes it would be integrated. Off course! >=20 > > > ZCatalog integration wouldn't be too hard, honestly. > > Probably not :-) >=20 > You could probably us ZClient to bang each message in as it shows up, = and > instantiate a ZClass. WE've index 18,500 messages in ZCatalog on just > a regular desktop Linux box (nothing fancy, mayb 128Mb RAM, though I = think > 64MB), and retreival time is on the order of 1/10th - 1/4 second for = most > searches. Now the actual indexing was much more expensive, but done=20 > one at a time, it shouldn't be a major issue. So that how it's done.=20 Thanx! > Note that what we're talking about wouldn't be for managing list = options, > just for membership. Ok. //johan=20 From hebble@ncsa.uiuc.edu Fri Jan 21 21:59:46 2000 From: hebble@ncsa.uiuc.edu (Paul Hebble) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 15:59:46 -0600 (CST) Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Problem in newlist? Message-ID: Hi, I got this crash when I tried to run bin/newlist (cvs version). Ordinarily I wouldn't post a traceback, but this one actually looks like a syntax error. It pops up right after the script gives me the aliases to put in the config file. If the problem is because of my configuration, any help would be appreciated... Hit enter to continue with test2 owner notification... Traceback (innermost last): File "bin/newlist", line 154, in ? main(sys.argv) File "bin/newlist", line 148, in main HandlerAPI.DeliverToUser(mlist, msg) File "/var/common/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/HandlerAPI.py", line 72, in DeliverToUser func(mlist, msg) File "/var/common/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/CookHeaders.py", line 35, in process if not getattr(msg, 'isdigest', 0) and not getattr(msg, 'fastrack', 0): TypeError: getattr requires exactly 2 arguments; 3 given -- Paul From bwarsaw@cnri.reston.va.us (Barry A. Warsaw) Fri Jan 21 22:14:13 2000 From: bwarsaw@cnri.reston.va.us (Barry A. Warsaw) (Barry A. Warsaw) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 17:14:13 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Problem in newlist? References: Message-ID: <14472.55861.183590.931542@anthem.cnri.reston.va.us> >>>>> "PH" == Paul Hebble writes: PH> Hi, I got this crash when I tried to run bin/newlist (cvs PH> version). Ordinarily I wouldn't post a traceback, but this PH> one actually looks like a syntax error. It pops up right PH> after the script gives me the aliases to put in the config PH> file. If the problem is because of my configuration, any help PH> would be appreciated... Are you running Python 1.5.2? If not, you'll need to upgrade to run the CVS code base. -Barry From bbum@codefab.com Sat Jan 22 06:39:46 2000 From: bbum@codefab.com (Bill Bumgarner) Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 01:39:46 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] MailMan modifications to support WebDav & Attachments Message-ID: <200001220639.BAA28156@bjork.codefab.com> In short, it works and I'm a happy coder... been 2.5 years since I have written any python and it is a joy to dive back in! If anyone wants the code, let me know and I'll drop a tarball on you-- I'm going to be tweaking it over the next few days. This was developed for a client project, but we [CodeFab] convinced them that (a) using MailMan would give us a huge leg up and (b) donating the changes back to the community would be the best possible route to take.... As such, the implementation was geared towards solving a very specific set of requirements for the client. However, the implementation was done in a relative black box-- the implementation was very much done against the question "How would one modify MailMan to intelligently support attachments archived to web accessible servers?" so as to try and maximize the reusability and value to the community [while minimizing the exposure of any proprietary requirements or technologies of the client]. Specifically: MailMan now has the full set of modifications necessary to allow a user to post a message with attachments to a MailMan controlled mailing list, MailMan will detect the attachments that should be deocded, decode said attachments, rewrite the message to indicate that various attachments have been decoded, file the decoded message and attachments to a WebDAV server, and send the rewritten/urlified resulting message out to Usenet/mailing-list/digest/HTTP. The end result is not pretty-- it works, it is relatively well architected, but there is quite a bit of room for optimization/improvement. The one feature that is truly lacking is that the DAV'd archives are not nearly as friendly in structure as are the PiperMail archives..... Generic feature list: - ability to decode binary attachments from incoming messages; configuration options to determine which major types should be decoded, where they should be filed, how they should be accessed, etc,etc,etc.... - ability to file attachments [via WebDAV] into a repository accessible to the end user via HTTP - ability to rewrite messages to reflect availability of attachments via HTTP - use of an open protocol [WebDAV] to file/manage attachments - ability to encapsulate message into an HTTP request made against an arbitrary web server / web application The primary goal of implementation was to render a working solution as quickly as possible. However, a secondary goal of great importance was to render a solution that would be palatable to the MailMan / Open Source development community and, as such, would be picked up and maintained by them ASAP-- licensing requires that this piece of the In short, it works! Specifically: MailMan now has the full set of modifications necessary to allow a user to post a message with attachments to a MailMan controlled mailing list, MailMan will detect the attachments that should be deocded, decode said attachments, rewrite the message to indicate that various attachments have been decoded, file the decoded message and attachments to a WebDAV server, and send the rewritten/urlified resulting message out to Usenet/mailing-list/digest/HTTP. The end result is not pretty-- it works, it is relatively well architected, but there is quite a bit of room for optimization/improvement. In particular, the archive doesn't have near the friendliness of a pipermail archive-- but that shouldn't be *that* hard to add considering how it was originally implemented. ---- Summary of implementation ---- Components: - apache web server [version 1.3.9 -- latest stable release] - mod_dav WebDAV module from Greg Stein [http://www.webdav.org/mod_dav/ -- using latest development version from Greg's CVS repository. Can likely move BACK to last stable release-- though a new stable release is pending shortly] - python [1.5.2 -- latest stable release] - pyexpat module [ftp://ftp.cwi.nl/pub/jack/python/ -- version 1.3 -- includes expat library] -- provides xml parsing toolkit used by both mod_dav [expat] and qp_xml/davlib [pyexpat] - MailMan [using latest cut from MailMan development cvs server. Version 1.2expiremental. Very close to 1.2 release, so it is stable. As the MailMan community is likely to suck in all the changes that I have made, this will be path of least resistance.] - qp_xml / davlib / httplib -- various python modules from Greg Stein's CVS server. davlib had to be modified (see below) - mimecntl -- [version 1.3 -- Michael P Reilly -- http://starship.python.net/~arcege/modules/] Slightly modified to deal with file handles more cleanly. - sendmail -- generic, free, totally unmodified sendmail. Latest version. Basic configuration; no spam filtering, but configured to not allow relaying. Configuration will change slightly once in production. Assembly: APACHE / mod_dav Apache is configured with mod_dav installed and enabled as a dynamically loadable module. Configuration is quite straightforward; the directory identified as the root of all WebDAV MailMan operations has DAV enabled and requires password authentication to perform any operation. PYTHON Straightforward python 1.5.2 installation. Dynamic loading of modules is enabled [required for loading of expat module] PYEXPAT Straightforward dynamic loading build of pyexpat. For production, we might consider moving to a statically linked version of pyexpat-- this will be both more effecient and less prone to failure during upgrades/such-- but will require slightly more maintenance during upgrades. SENDMAIL No assembly required. Configuration details will be documented elsewhere [no changes to document now-- it'll all be performance/feature tweaks reflective of the production environment]. MAILMAN The internal architecture of MailMan was relatively consistent. As well, it is clear that the original architects gave a great deal of thought as to how to create a very flexible and extendable body of code. This proved to be a huge asset-- while the features required were relatively alien to the existing body of code, it was fairly clear how to add functionality while following the existing architecture. The end result is that the architecture of MailMan itself is largely untouched. The integration of certain required features, however, was not so clean or straight forward. The following specific implementation requirements caused a bit of frustration: - dynamically manipulatign MIME messages; it appears that very few people have ever given thought to the value of being able to rewrite a MIME message by replacing various parts of a message with pieces encoded differently. Thankfully, Michael Reilly had already thought through this problem-- the mimecntl.py package proved to be a huge timesaver. - WebDAV: DAV is an immature technology and, as such, the packages available to the developer for manipulating DAV accessible repositories tend to be extremely primitive. Largely, this is due to the extremely primitive/immature state of the XML marketplace combined with the inherently complex nature of a typical XML document. Similarly, DAV requires a client and server that implements HTTP/1.1 -- a version of the protocol that is relatively new. Greg Stein's qp_xml (in conjunction with pyexpat), davlib, and httplib saved a huge amount of time. However, it still required a lot of work to generalize access/control of a webdav server from MailMan. Synopsis of changes/additions:: - added a number of configuration options to various different admin pages throughout MailMan. Allow for setting target DAV server, advertised Dav'd resource retrieval, whether or not attachments are decoded, which types to decode, disabling pre-existing archival functionality, where MailMan->HTTP gateway'd messages should be sent, etc.... - add two additional handlers to the message handling pipeline (see HandlerAPI.py in Handlers in MailMan); Rewrite -- rewrites a mime message, decoding attaachments as needed and ToHTTP -- encapsulates a message and sends it to the configured web server - modified existing post script such that it will instantiate a MimeMessage when a particular list is configured to do so. MimeMessage is a new subclass of Message that encapsulates an instance of MIME_recoder from mimecntl package. MIME_recoder allows for random access and recomposition of MIME based multipart messages. - modified ToArchive handler to be aware of DAV. Added functionality for enumerated messages received by a list and archiving each message into a DAV enabled web server. ToArchive will also automatically validate and create any collections [directories] needed on archive server to service a given list or message. - added a custom subclass of davlib called davxmllib which optimally performs various common DAV operations through the use of well defined XML structured DAV requests. davxmllib also presents an error/exception interface that is much more desirable to high-level manipulation of a DAV based resource server - added ability to turn off pipermail [legacy archival system previously used in MailMan] From mwr7955@ksu.edu Sun Jan 23 20:13:14 2000 From: mwr7955@ksu.edu (Matthew Ratzloff) Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 14:13:14 -0600 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Ban feature, etc. Message-ID: <002301bf65de$474ae920$a0638281@ksu.ksu.edu> Hi, Well, haven't seen any e-mail from this list, so I figured I'd make some of my own. Are there plans for a ban feature, where you can permanently ban problem users? If it already exists, I sure can't find it, and I've looked numerous times. This would be very useful. Also, immature, disgruntled users have the ability to subscribe a list to another mailing list. Even if only members can post, admin requests still pile up. Are there any plans to enable an option to automatically delete mail from mailing list servers, such as egroups.com and onelist.com? Thanks! -Matt From ricardo@rixhq.nu Sun Jan 23 23:23:39 2000 From: ricardo@rixhq.nu (Ricardo Kustner) Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 00:23:39 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Ban feature, etc. In-Reply-To: <002301bf65de$474ae920$a0638281@ksu.ksu.edu>; from mwr7955@ksu.edu on Sun, Jan 23, 2000 at 02:13:14PM -0600 References: <002301bf65de$474ae920$a0638281@ksu.ksu.edu> Message-ID: <20000124002339.C26912@miss-janet.com> Hi, On Sun, Jan 23, 2000 at 02:13:14PM -0600, Matthew Ratzloff wrote: > Are there plans for a ban feature, where you can permanently ban problem > users? If it already exists, I sure can't find it, and I've looked numerous > times. This would be very useful. i second this... some posts just don't need to be in the list of pending administrative requests... for example, all mail to our list has to be approved by the moderators, but posts from non-members will show up in this list too, and if some "banned" person would try to post to the list, the moderator has no idea about this. If you have set a size limit to the posts to the list, they will show up in this list too. Maybe these posts could be moved to a seperate list or it should be possible to tell MM to discard these kind of posts no matter what. Ricardo. -- From gzbigegg@21cn.com Mon Jan 24 14:10:03 2000 From: gzbigegg@21cn.com (gzbigegg) Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 22:10:03 +0800 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Customization Message-ID: <000501bf6690$e8894fe0$0201a8c0@bigass> aGkgQWxsLA0KDQpJIGp1c3QgaW5zdGFsbGVkIG1haWxtYW4gb24gbXkgc3lzdGVtLCBldmVyeXRo aW5nIHNlZW1zIE9LLiBOb3cgSSB3YW50IHRvIGN1c3RvbWl6ZSB0aGUgbWFpbG1hbiB0byB0aGUg aW50ZXJmYWNlIEkgbmVlZCwgd291bGQgc29tZWJvZHkga2luZGx5IHRlbGwgbWUgd2hhdCB0aGUg ZW50cnkgcG9pbnQgb2YgdGhpcyB0YXNrIGlzPyBJIHdpbGwgdHJ5IHRvIG1vZGlmeSB0aGUgZmls ZXMgdW5kZXIgdGhlIGRpcmVjdG9yeSAndGVtcGxhdGVzJywgYnV0IHlvdXIgdGlwcyB3aWxsIHNh dmUgbWUgbXVjaCB0aW1lIGFuZCBlZmZvcnQuDQoNClRoYW5rcyBhIGxvdCENCkxpdSBZYW4NCg0K DQo= From gzbigegg@21cn.com Mon Jan 24 14:14:09 2000 From: gzbigegg@21cn.com (gzbigegg) Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 22:14:09 +0800 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Only Receive from the List Message-ID: <000a01bf6690$ea4557c0$0201a8c0@bigass> aGkgQWxsLA0KDQpJJ20gaG9zdGluZyBzZXZlcmFsIG1haWxpbmcgbGlzdHMgbm93IGJ5IE1haWxt YW4uIE15IHF1ZXN0aW9uIGlzOiBjYW4gSSByZXN0cmljdCB0aGUgcGVyc29uIHdobyBjYW4gcG9z dCB0byB0aGUgbGlzdCB0byBhIHNwZWNpZmljIGdyb3VwPyBUaGF0IGlzIHRoZSBzdWJzY3JpYmVy cyBvbmx5IGNhbiByZWNlaXZlIHRoZSBwb3N0aW5ncyBmcm9tIHRoZSBsaXN0LCB0aGV5IGNhbm5v dCBwb3N0IG9uIGl0Lg0KDQpZb3VyIGFuc3dlciBpcyBoaWdobHkgYXBwcmVjaWF0ZWQhDQpMaXUg WWFuDQoNCg== From julian7@kva.hu Tue Jan 25 00:07:39 2000 From: julian7@kva.hu (Balazs Nagy) Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 01:07:39 +0100 (CET) Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Reply goes to list error In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 18 Jan 2000, Balazs Nagy wrote: > Hi, > > I know that reply to the list address is obsolete and not supported but in > my list there're a bunch of people who claim this feature. It worked in > the last version but the CVS version doesn't use this option anymore. > Here's the patch. I just cannot understand why nobody from thosw who have write access did anything about the subject. Here's the patch again, in clear text: --- Mailman/Handlers/Cleanse.py.orig Tue Jan 18 13:17:36 2000 +++ Mailman/Handlers/Cleanse.py Tue Jan 18 13:18:43 2000 @@ -28,6 +28,10 @@ del msg['sender'] msg['From'] = mlist.GetAdminEmail() msg['Reply-To'] = mlist.GetListEmail() + else: + if mlist.reply_goes_to_list: + del msg['reply-to'] + msg['Reply-To'] = mlist.GetListEmail() # # Some headers can be used to fish for membership del msg['return-receipt-to'] -- Regards: Kevin (Balazs) From Rick.Niess@usm.edu Tue Jan 25 17:53:10 2000 From: Rick.Niess@usm.edu (Rick Niess) Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 11:53:10 -0600 (CST) Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Another suggestion... Message-ID: Hi All, A couple ideas to add to the pile: 1) Add another option to add_members to disable subscription notifications to the owner of the list only for the duration of this add_members session. (to help with list admins getting deluged with subscription notices when they use add_members) 2) For lists with member_posting_only enabled and subscribe_policy set to require confirmation, subscribe the address that the user responds to the confirmation notice with instead of what they type in on the web page. Possibly even require a second confirmation. (will help with users who subscribe under an "aliased" address but actually post from another) 3) To help in sutuations where an unknown address subscribed to a list is forwarding all messages it receives from the list back to that list, setup a tracking feature that mails each address subscribed to a list with a unique number (perhaps in a diagnostic header?) and an explaination for the message. Then watch for one of those messages to come back through the list, catch it, extract the number, disable delivery for the address it was sent to, and notify the list admin. (A bit of an odd case, I know, but I had to do this manually on a list /w >50 subscribers recently due to a rogue subscriber...) ~ Rick ~ -- .oooO "Man with closed Oooo. Rick C. Niess ( ) mouth gathers ( ) University of Southern Miss. \ ( no foot!" ) / resnet@usm.edu --\ )------------------(_/------------------------------- From mwr7955@ksu.edu Tue Jan 25 18:06:11 2000 From: mwr7955@ksu.edu (Matthew Ratzloff) Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 12:06:11 -0600 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Another suggestion... References: Message-ID: <001301bf675e$dd2d8d40$a0638281@ksu.ksu.edu> > 2) For lists with member_posting_only enabled and subscribe_policy set to > require confirmation, subscribe the address that the user responds to the > confirmation notice with instead of what they type in on the web page. > Possibly even require a second confirmation. (will help with users who > subscribe under an "aliased" address but actually post from another) Members are free to set their Reply-To manually. I don't feel this is absolutely necessary. -Matt From Rick.Niess@usm.edu Tue Jan 25 18:37:37 2000 From: Rick.Niess@usm.edu (Rick Niess) Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 12:37:37 -0600 (CST) Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Another suggestion... In-Reply-To: <001301bf675e$dd2d8d40$a0638281@ksu.ksu.edu> Message-ID: On Tue, 25 Jan 2000, Matthew Ratzloff wrote: > > 2) For lists with member_posting_only enabled and subscribe_policy set to > > require confirmation, subscribe the address that the user responds to the > > confirmation notice with instead of what they type in on the web page. > > Possibly even require a second confirmation. (will help with users who > > subscribe under an "aliased" address but actually post from another) > Members are free to set their Reply-To manually. I don't feel this is > absolutely necessary. Correct. In fact, none of the suggestions I made are absolutely necessary. However, I am finding it increasingly difficult to help each and every user properly configure whatever plethora of mail clients they use. It would be a great deal simpler for me if the MailMan could help by second-guessing what the user meant occasionally, especailly in the case of common mistakes. (ex, subscribing with one address but posting from another). Surely someone else has run into this issue before... ~ Rick ~ -- .oooO "Man with closed Oooo. Rick C. Niess ( ) mouth gathers ( ) University of Southern Miss. \ ( no foot!" ) / resnet@usm.edu --\ )------------------(_/------------------------------- From bbum@codefab.com Thu Jan 27 22:57:56 2000 From: bbum@codefab.com (Bill Bumgarner) Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 17:57:56 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Python w/Attachment decoding and archival via WebDAV available Message-ID: <200001272257.RAA20043@bjork.codefab.com> See: http://www.codefab.com/mailman-dav/ - decodes MIME attachments in incoming email - archive attachments to WebDAV enabled server - rewrite email messages to contain URL to attachments, instead of actual attachments [URL can be different than DAV URL] - send message to HTTP server [can be used to notify a web based system of incoming email messages] - fully configurable via web based GUI From david.sexton@sapphire.net Mon Jan 31 13:04:53 2000 From: david.sexton@sapphire.net (David Sexton) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 13:04:53 +0000 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Forcing the address of a list Message-ID: <38958875.84356828@sapphire.net> Hi, I've asked this question on the users list but got no answers so I'm trying here. I ahve a box that hosts many virtual domains for mail & web. I have got mailman installed & sendmail configured so that mail sent to list@domain1.com goes to a different list than mail to list@domain2.com. I have done this by having a unique 'internal' list name in which is embedded the domain name. Mail coming into list-request@domain1.com actually gets redirected to the list called 'domain1-com-list-request'. This works fine. However, the outgoing mails sent by mailman are sent as 'From: domain1-com-list@domain1.com', which is not what I want. The Administrator's interface suggests that changing the 'Public Name' will change this, but it does not. Is there any way I can change this myself or can someone give me some pointers where I should be looking in the code to change the 'from' address for ougoing mail (Oh, and wherever it references the list in the body of a message). Can anyone help me please? Dave -- David Sexton Network Technician Sapphire Technologies Ltd. Tel: +44 (0) 1642 702100 Fax: +44 (0) 1642 702119 ----------------------------------------------- Any opinions expressed in this message are those of the individual and not necessarily the company. This message and any files transmitted with it are confidential and solely for the use of the intended recipient. If you are not the intended recipient or the person responsible for delivering to the intended recipient, be advised that you have received this message in error and that any use is strictly prohibited. Sapphire Internet http://www.sapphire.net