[Mailman-Developers] (no subject)

[J C Lawrence]

On Mon, 11 Dec 2000 18:26:26 -0800 
Chuq Von Rospach <chuqui@plaidworks.com> wrote:

> At 5:17 PM -0800 12/11/00, J C Lawrence wrote:
>> 1) Is there a GPL distributed queue processing system ala IBM's
>> MQ about?  I've not been able to find one.


> <http://sourceforge.net/projects/queue/>

> wehn I evaluated it a while back, it wasn't stable on solaris, but
> it had the functionality I wanted.

Yeah, I just spent some time playing around there.  Its not
encouraging right now.

>> 1) Insert MessageID headers with created values in messages that
>> don't contain any MessageID.

> that's no problem, although in theory, the MTA should do it for
> you. The only way I can think of this (if everyone acts properly)
> happening is someone somehow delivering a message to Mailman that
> never touches an MTA. I'm not sure that's possible.

Not exactly.  My architecture has the ability to create messages
internally that are then passed back thru the processing system.
I'm not interested in passing back out to the MTA (wasted cycles and
need to know what machine has a valid MTA on it), or in generating
IDs at the point of message generation (which is a template), so I'd
rather just punt and just build IDs when I need them.

>> 2) Detect collisions within its rather small/arbitrary window,
>> and auto-discard/reject messages subsequent messages with a
>> duplicate MessageID.  This would not a rigorous dupe check, but
>> would only check for dupes against the messages already in the
>> Mailman queue (ie received and not yet sent back out).

> It's not that expensive to keep a hash of message IDs, where the
> key is the Message-ID, the value is a timestamp. And, say, once a
> day, you delete records where the timestamp is older than
> (configurable) days. If you're gong ot dupe check at all, why not
> do it for real?

I could.  At this point the ONLY reason I'm interested in message
IDa is for the moderation interface which needs to be assured that
no two messages in the moderation queue for a given list have the
same ID.  I guess a little DBM file wouldn't hurt, but I don't think
I'll spec it.

>> (MUA emitting non-unique or no IDs, mail dupes, etc).

> it's not the MUA that's responsible for message-iid's, it's the
> MTA. 

Oops, you're right.  I forgot that.

>> 4) While it seems a subtle small point, its bugging me.  Given
>> user account support, and messages to a given user bouncing,
>> should that user be unsubscribed from only that list, or from all
>> lists at that site?

> I unsubscribe from the site. I'm sure at some point, an email sent
> from A might bounce and still be valid if sent from B, but that
> case is so rare I wouldn't think of wasting time on it, because
> the only way I can see taht happen (minus broken systems, of
> course) is someone who decides to try to unsubscribe by blocking a
> list, isntead of following the directions. And I don't see we need
> to write code into mailman to help users not follow the
> instructions.... (grin)

I kinda like the way you think.

>> Where this is actually bugging me most is for virtual domains and
>> whether or not lists in a virtual domains should be transparent
>> or opaque to a bounce on a list in a different virtual domain?

> since we've talked about a single data store for subscriber data,
> I think you do it globally. If they really want opaqueness across
> virtual domains, run mujltiples copies of Mailman. that'll still
> be an option, after all.

<nod> Neater.

>> For those interested the basic model is built upon arbitrary
>> process queues and pipes.

> which is a nice system -- it's how I finally did my big muther
> list server, but instead of gnu queue, I'm using QPS.

I'm ending up with a sort of pseudo-queue model.  Still a "list-mom"
cron job, but it works by orchestrating a series of arbitrary
process pipes as orphaned children.  I'd like to go for a full queue
implementation, but I think the culture shock and overhead for the
small case might be a bit much.

-- 
J C Lawrence                                       claw@kanga.nu
---------(*)                        : http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/
--=| A man is as sane as he is dangerous to his environment |=--