From chuqui@plaidworks.com Tue Aug 1 05:00:01 2000 From: chuqui@plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach) Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 21:00:01 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Database API In-Reply-To: <3985EB3C.6C846184@leo.gov> References: <3985EB3C.6C846184@leo.gov> Message-ID: > >Here are some issues I am not sure I adderessed or understood. >mixed and lower case mail addr.? technically speaking, the part to the right of the @ is case insensitive. the part to the left of the @ is considered case sensitive. That's how the RFCs define it. In practice, nobody seems to worry about this any more, and is case insensitive across the entire email. What I do now is store the email as it's given to me, but do case-insensitive searches on it (so a user couldn't subscribe both "fred@aol.com and "Fred@aol.com" -- because in practice, while the RFC says they *can* be different people, no mailer with half a brain would try something that loonie any more... >admin approval list should be in database ? I think the whole admin piece needs to be reworked. I've been mulling it over, but haven't written up my thoughts yet (being on vacation in Victoria eating, sleeping and relaxing has slowed my productivity a bit...) -- Chuq Von Rospach - Plaidworks Consulting (mailto:chuqui@plaidworks.com) Apple Mail List Gnome (mailto:chuq@apple.com) And they sit at the bar and put bread in my jar and say 'Man, what are you doing here?'" From dgc@uchicago.edu Tue Aug 1 11:12:18 2000 From: dgc@uchicago.edu (David Champion) Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 05:12:18 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Changing email address Message-ID: <20000801051218.I20937@smack.uchicago.edu> --CgTrtGVSVGoxAIFj Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Right now, I have a big block of text on the options template telling people that to change their subscription address, they must resubscribe/unsubscribe. This is good, because it's a moderately common need, but being able just to change the address is better. 1. Any plans to have an integrated "change of address" facility in the future? Please. 2. Otherwise, any chance that the distributed options template might be patched to include this kind of text? An example diff is attached. -- -D. dgc@uchicago.edu NSIT University of Chicago --CgTrtGVSVGoxAIFj Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="options.diff" *** options.html.orig Wed Jun 23 16:17:34 1999 --- options.html Wed Dec 8 19:04:01 1999 *************** *** 50,55 **** --- 50,75 ---- + + + + +
+ Changing your e-mail address +
+ There is no direct means of changing your e-mail address. + To receive your mail at a different address, + you must unsubscribe your address + and create a new subscription for your new address. You can usually + do this yourself from the + list information page. + Alternatively, the + list administrator + can handle this for you. +
+
+ +
Your Password --CgTrtGVSVGoxAIFj-- From Nigel.Metheringham@VData.co.uk Tue Aug 1 11:57:07 2000 From: Nigel.Metheringham@VData.co.uk (Nigel Metheringham) Date: Tue, 01 Aug 2000 11:57:07 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Serious qrunner problem with mailman 2.0b4 Message-ID: I made the big mistake of upgrading mailman a few days before going away for most of a week. Of course it all went strange whilst I was away (or more accurately the strangeness became significantly noticeable). What appears to have been happening since a few days following the upgrade from 2.0b2 to 2.0b4 is that the Yahoo Bouncer module started throwing exceptions, which blocked a whole lot of mail in the queue. Some mail went through without any apparent problems, other mail got blocked. For example, digest messages generated on the daily digest flush went out OK, but ones generated due to mail volume (ie asynchronously generated), got stuck in the queue. The error message generated was qrunner(16931): Traceback (innermost last): qrunner(16931): File "/home/mailman/cron/qrunner", line 209, in ? qrunner(16931): kids = main(lock) qrunner(16931): File "/home/mailman/cron/qrunner", line 178, in main qrunner(16931): keepqueued = dispose_message(mlist, msg, msgdata) qrunner(16931): File "/home/mailman/cron/qrunner", line 68, in dispose_message qrunner(16931): if BouncerAPI.ScanMessages(mlist, mimemsg): qrunner(16931): File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Bouncers/BouncerAPI.py", line 54, in ScanMessages qrunner(16931): addrs = func(msg) qrunner(16931): File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Bouncers/Yahoo.py", line 31, in process qrunner(16931): if string.lower(msg.get('from')) <> 'mailer-daemon@yahoo.com': I twiddled Yahoo.py slightly but couldn't quite see the problem, so finally removed it from the Bounce API stuff, and the queue then unblocked itself. Nigel. -- [ - Opinions expressed are personal and may not be shared by VData - ] [ Nigel Metheringham Nigel.Metheringham@VData.co.uk ] [ Phone: +44 1423 850000 Fax +44 1423 858866 ] From jmackenzie@local.ie Tue Aug 1 14:17:17 2000 From: jmackenzie@local.ie (John MacKenzie) Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 14:17:17 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Latest CVS , Any major differences? Message-ID: <00080114184202.00902@samsara.local.ie> Hey guys, Just wondering if there are any major changes in the Latest CVS compared to b4 to warrant an update? Also wondering on the approximate release date of b5 ? Regards - John -- John MacKenzie | Unix Systems Admin | e: mailto:jmackenzie@local.ie ___________________________________________________________________ Stay in touch your local area through Local Ireland http://chat.local.ie/chat/index.html ___________________________________________________________________ local ireland | dublin | new york | http://www.local.ie t: +353 1 676 8996 f: +353 1 283 9988 From bwarsaw@beopen.com Tue Aug 1 18:44:24 2000 From: bwarsaw@beopen.com (Barry A. Warsaw) Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 13:44:24 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Serious qrunner problem with mailman 2.0b4 References: Message-ID: <14727.3192.682329.943981@anthem.concentric.net> >>>>> "NM" == Nigel Metheringham writes: NM> I twiddled Yahoo.py slightly but couldn't quite see the NM> problem, so finally removed it from the Bounce API stuff, and NM> the queue then unblocked itself. It's possible the message had no From: header. Here's a patch. -Barry -------------------- snip snip -------------------- Index: Yahoo.py =================================================================== RCS file: /cvsroot/mailman/mailman/Mailman/Bouncers/Yahoo.py,v retrieving revision 1.4 diff -u -r1.4 Yahoo.py --- Yahoo.py 2000/06/05 15:54:47 1.4 +++ Yahoo.py 2000/08/01 17:42:08 @@ -28,7 +28,7 @@ def process(msg): # yahoo bounces seem to have a known subject value and something called an # x-uidl header, the value of which seems unimportant - if string.lower(msg.get('from')) <> 'mailer-daemon@yahoo.com': + if string.lower(msg.get('from', '')) <> 'mailer-daemon@yahoo.com': return None msg.rewindbody() addrs = [] From Ricardo Kustner Tue Aug 1 23:22:42 2000 From: Ricardo Kustner (Ricardo Kustner) Date: 01 Aug 2000 22:22:42 CEST Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Database API In-Reply-To: <3985EB3C.6C846184@leo.gov> References: <3985EB3C.6C846184@leo.gov> Message-ID: <200008012022.WAA01939@smtp9.xs4all.nl> Hi, On Mon, 31 Jul 2000 17:10:20 -0400, Andy Lowe said: > Here is my first draft of multiple back end support for Mailman. > I believe that everything else can be handled by the frontend > Here are some issues I am not sure I adderessed or understood. > mixed and lower case mail addr.? > logging? > admin approval list should be in database ? in the end maybe, but i guess there's no hurry with it... i think the held back messages should be kept on disk though > key names. In addition each new version of the backend can check the > marshal file, or database table or whatever and if it finds an older > version, use an upgrade method or function to bring the old list up to > date using the defaults for the site. this can be quite complicated... unless you're really carefull and not make too many big changes; if you have 5 different versions the latest version needs to do all those steps one by one... > I apoligize for the crudness of this outline, and I am interested to see > everyones suggestions. well it look ok to me... at the moment i can't think of much to add to your outline... have you thought about how/where you want to do the development? i'd like to help out if necessary.... Ricardo. -- http://rixhq.nu "You think that's air you're breathing?" -- Morpheus From darrell@grumblesmurf.net Tue Aug 1 21:40:50 2000 From: darrell@grumblesmurf.net (Darrell Fuhriman) Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 13:40:50 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Database API In-Reply-To: <200008012022.WAA01939@smtp9.xs4all.nl> Message-ID: > well it look ok to me... at the moment i can't think of much to add to your > outline... The big thing I can think of would be to add in backend support into pipermail. It would be neat to be able to store archives in a database. Even neater would be to integrate UDMsearch (or similar) into the mix, so mailman became an all in one mail-list processor/archiver/indexer/search engine with a database backend. :) Darrell From Dan.Mick@west.sun.com Wed Aug 2 02:06:38 2000 From: Dan.Mick@west.sun.com (Dan Mick) Date: Tue, 01 Aug 2000 18:06:38 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Latest CVS wad has one thing missing: admin.py Message-ID: <3987741E.B29B6CD4@west.sun.com> Barry put back a wad of stuff in response to a bug of mine, but there's one nit wrong in it; I've notified Barry, but in case anyone else brings over the latest CVS, this is not yet in the tree as of right now: Index: Mailman/Cgi/admin.py =================================================================== RCS file: /cvsroot/mailman/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/admin.py,v retrieving revision 1.72 diff -r1.72 admin.py 545c545 < url = mlist.GetScriptURL('admin', relative=1) --- > url = mlist.GetScriptURL('admin') From Dan.Mick@west.sun.com Wed Aug 2 02:53:02 2000 From: Dan.Mick@west.sun.com (Dan Mick) Date: Tue, 01 Aug 2000 18:53:02 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Latest CVS wad has one thing missing: admin.py References: <3987741E.B29B6CD4@west.sun.com> Message-ID: <39877EFE.962085DA@west.sun.com> ....and now it is in CVS. Dan Mick wrote: > > Barry put back a wad of stuff in response to a bug of mine, but there's one > nit wrong in it; I've notified Barry, but in case anyone else brings over > the latest CVS, this is not yet in the tree as of right now: > > Index: Mailman/Cgi/admin.py > =================================================================== > RCS file: /cvsroot/mailman/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/admin.py,v > retrieving revision 1.72 > diff -r1.72 admin.py > 545c545 > < url = mlist.GetScriptURL('admin', relative=1) > --- > > url = mlist.GetScriptURL('admin') From bwarsaw@beopen.com Wed Aug 2 05:32:32 2000 From: bwarsaw@beopen.com (Barry A. Warsaw) Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 00:32:32 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Mailman 2.0 beta 5 Message-ID: <14727.42080.119761.425152@anthem.concentric.net> Folks, I've just released Mailman 2.0 beta 5. This is an important bug fix release that should once and for all solve the "cookie re-authentication" bug. It also fixes a small security hole that could be exploited by clever local users to gain group mailman permission. As usual, you can get the tarball from SourceForge http://download.sourceforge.net/mailman/mailman-2.0beta5.tgz or list.org http://www.list.org/mailman.tar.gz or (soon) ftp.gnu.org ftp://ftp.gnu.org/gnu/mailman/mailman-2.0beta5.tgz Please let me know how it goes for you. Remember to use the SourceForge bug tracker for reporting bugs NOT the old Jitterbug database on python.org (which I cannot shut off right now). Also, patches should be uploaded to the SourceForge patch manager. Enjoy, -Barry From fuzzy@fuzzydice.net Wed Aug 2 05:51:30 2000 From: fuzzy@fuzzydice.net (Adam Kennedy (Fuzzy Logic)) Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 23:51:30 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Re: [Mailman-Announce] Mailman 2.0 beta 5 In-Reply-To: <14727.42080.119761.425152@anthem.concentric.net> Message-ID: um, when you click on admin overview page, it comes up as domain/admin.cgi instead of domain/mailman/admin.cgi that an oops or is that my fault? -------------------------- Adam Kennedy (Fuzzy Logic) fuzzy@fuzzydice.net -------------------------- -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.12 GCS d- s: a--- C++++ UL++++ P+ L++++ E--- W++ N o-- K- w--- O-- M-- V-- PS PE Y PGP- t 5+ X+ R tv+++ b+ DI+ D+ G+ e- h++ r-- z- ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ "Life and death are seldom logical." "But attaining a desired goal always is." -- McCoy and Spock, "The Galileo Seven", stardate 2821.7 From fuzzy@fuzzydice.net Wed Aug 2 05:54:16 2000 From: fuzzy@fuzzydice.net (Adam Kennedy (Fuzzy Logic)) Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 23:54:16 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Re: [Mailman-Announce] Mailman 2.0 beta 5 In-Reply-To: <14727.42080.119761.425152@anthem.concentric.net> Message-ID: btw, same thing if your in admin.cgi and you click mailing list overview, it goes to domain/listinfo.cgi instead of domain/mailman/listinfo.cgi =) -------------------------- Adam Kennedy (Fuzzy Logic) fuzzy@fuzzydice.net -------------------------- -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.12 GCS d- s: a--- C++++ UL++++ P+ L++++ E--- W++ N o-- K- w--- O-- M-- V-- PS PE Y PGP- t 5+ X+ R tv+++ b+ DI+ D+ G+ e- h++ r-- z- ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ "Life and death are seldom logical." "But attaining a desired goal always is." -- McCoy and Spock, "The Galileo Seven", stardate 2821.7 From Dan.Mick@west.sun.com Wed Aug 2 06:17:39 2000 From: Dan.Mick@west.sun.com (Dan Mick) Date: Tue, 01 Aug 2000 22:17:39 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Re: [Mailman-Announce] Mailman 2.0 beta 5 References: Message-ID: <3987AEF3.B28E184@west.sun.com> "Adam Kennedy (Fuzzy Logic)" wrote: > > btw, same thing if your in admin.cgi and you click mailing list overview, > it goes to domain/listinfo.cgi instead of domain/mailman/listinfo.cgi I don't know what "admin overview" is (from your first message) but it sounds like your base URL doesn't include '/mailman/'. True? (Base URL at the bottom of General Options on admin// URL...) From chuqui@plaidworks.com Wed Aug 2 06:11:07 2000 From: chuqui@plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach) Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 22:11:07 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Database API In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: At 1:40 PM -0700 8/1/00, Darrell Fuhriman wrote: >The big thing I can think of would be to add in backend support into >pipermail. It would be neat to be able to store archives in a database. > > basically, every module should be an API, so that anything you want to do, you do by writing an interface to the API. You'd no longer have a pipermail interface, but an archive API, which can be called 0...N times, one for each instance of an archive. Ditto subscriptions, ditto everything else.... -- Chuq Von Rospach - Plaidworks Consulting (mailto:chuqui@plaidworks.com) Apple Mail List Gnome (mailto:chuq@apple.com) And they sit at the bar and put bread in my jar and say 'Man, what are you doing here?'" From jmackenzie@local.ie Wed Aug 2 11:56:50 2000 From: jmackenzie@local.ie (John MacKenzie) Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 11:56:50 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Still Getting issues with windows clients and lockfiles Message-ID: <00080212025807.00902@samsara.local.ie> Hey Folks , Just to let you know that Even after upgrading to 2.0b5 I'm still experiencing this issue. Incase you need a reminder of the issue... Basically lockfiles don't appear to be expiring, also Windows browsers attempting to view the lists are getting internal server error messages , while my Linux Netscape works fine (after I've manually deleted the lock) Barry, Not sure if you've got time to look at this but if you do , You're more than welcome to shell access. Regards - John -- John MacKenzie | Unix Systems Admin | e: mailto:jmackenzie@local.ie ___________________________________________________________________ Stay in touch your local area through Local Ireland http://chat.local.ie/chat/index.html ___________________________________________________________________ local ireland | dublin | new york | http://www.local.ie t: +353 1 676 8996 f: +353 1 283 9988 From jam@jamux.com Wed Aug 2 13:02:44 2000 From: jam@jamux.com (John A. Martin) Date: Wed, 02 Aug 2000 08:02:44 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Re: [Mailman-Announce] Mailman 2.0 beta 5 In-Reply-To: <14727.42080.119761.425152@anthem.concentric.net> (Barry A. Warsaw; Wed, 02 Aug 2000 00:32:32 -0400) Message-ID: <20000802120244.6EF6B4800A@athene.jamux.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 >>>>> "BAW" == Barry A Warsaw >>>>> "[Mailman-Announce] Mailman 2.0 beta 5" >>>>> Wed, 2 Aug 2000 00:32:32 -0400 (EDT) BAW> It also fixes a small security hole that could be exploited BAW> by clever local users to gain group mailman permission. Hmm... would it be prudent to omit the version number from the default mailman logo so as not to, in effect, advertise so blatantly which vulnerabilities are running? jam -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: By Mailcrypt 3.5.5 using Gnu Privacy Guard iEYEARECAAYFAjmIDdgACgkQUEvv1b/iXy+oCACfW5iJvhd61nqb3x9TYv2T4mZr jL4AmgLhngnow1wwZPV1MzjQxrA7fADx =8dxW -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From paul@exit1.com Wed Aug 2 15:42:24 2000 From: paul@exit1.com (Paul Hyland) Date: Wed, 02 Aug 2000 10:42:24 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Re: [Mailman-Announce] Mailman 2.0 beta 5 In-Reply-To: <14727.42080.119761.425152@anthem.concentric.net> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20000802103341.0212e2e0@mail.exit2000.com> Hi Barry, I take it that even though this is called beta, it is the recommended version of Mailman. I have the correct version of python, comes w/ Redhat 6.1. BTW, on the pythonlabs website, the link to your home page at python.org no longer works, gives a 404... Seeya Friday? Paul At 12:32 AM 8/2/00 -0400, you wrote: >Folks, > >I've just released Mailman 2.0 beta 5. This is an important bug fix >release that should once and for all solve the "cookie >re-authentication" bug. It also fixes a small security hole that >could be exploited by clever local users to gain group mailman >permission. > >As usual, you can get the tarball from SourceForge > > http://download.sourceforge.net/mailman/mailman-2.0beta5.tgz > >or list.org > > http://www.list.org/mailman.tar.gz > >or (soon) ftp.gnu.org > > ftp://ftp.gnu.org/gnu/mailman/mailman-2.0beta5.tgz > >Please let me know how it goes for you. Remember to use the >SourceForge bug tracker for reporting bugs NOT the old Jitterbug >database on python.org (which I cannot shut off right now). Also, >patches should be uploaded to the SourceForge patch manager. > >Enjoy, >-Barry > >_______________________________________________ >Mailman-announce mailing list >Mailman-announce@python.org >http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-announce Paul Hyland paul@exit1.com http://www.exit1.com/~paul From ajlowe@leo.gov Wed Aug 2 21:03:57 2000 From: ajlowe@leo.gov (Andy Lowe) Date: Wed, 02 Aug 2000 16:03:57 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Database API Message-ID: <39887EAD.D4A14E1B@leo.gov> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------0283E4FACABE8798B84D7F1E Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit OK, assuming we have a working draft for the database API, how do we go about developing this? I see this project seriously breaking mailman for a while until everything gets synced up. Do we want to create a separate branch in CVS? Or do we want to just put it on an ftp site I can provide. The only problem with CVS is that I am behind a very restrictive firewall and can basically only get http/https/ftp access to the internet, so I would prefer to use ftp, or http enabled CVS. Does SourceForge allow you to checkout via https? I don't think so. Ricardo an I are interested in coding this project, how about anyone else? I have already started working on the oracle module, and I am guessing that Ricardo will want to do MySQL and or MS-SQL . I think the other parts necessary include changing the current mailman code to fit the API and breaking the Marshal code out of the current Mailman code. Perhaps the 'changing the mailman' aspect could be broken down further into changing each of the current modules like Maillist etc. . . It appears to me that we are ready to break off into a smaller developers group and start cranking out some code. What I don't know is whether normal mailman development will continue and or how we should integrate the API enhanced version of Mailman back into the normal development once complete. Any suggestions? A. L. --------------0283E4FACABE8798B84D7F1E Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="ajlowe.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Andy Lowe Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="ajlowe.vcf" begin:vcard n:Lowe;Andy x-mozilla-html:FALSE org:Law Enforcement Online adr:;;;;;; version:2.1 email;internet:ajlowe@leo.gov title:Network Engineer x-mozilla-cpt:;0 fn:Andy Lowe end:vcard --------------0283E4FACABE8798B84D7F1E-- From bwarsaw@beopen.com Wed Aug 2 22:49:55 2000 From: bwarsaw@beopen.com (Barry A. Warsaw) Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 17:49:55 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 2.0 beta 5 References: <14727.42080.119761.425152@anthem.concentric.net> <200008021533.e72FXMt24784@xerxes.courtesan.com> Message-ID: <14728.38787.132425.78616@anthem.concentric.net> >>>>> "TCM" == Todd C Miller writes: | In message <14727.42080.119761.425152@anthem.concentric.net> | so spake (bwarsaw): TCM> Just in case this bites anyone else, I ran into problems TCM> because I had set DEFAULT_URL to a value that did not end in TCM> '/'. This worked fine up up to and including beta 4 but with TCM> beta 5 it broke Utils.ScriptURL. Adding a trailing slash TCM> made things much happier (but I had to read Utils.ScriptURL TCM> to guess why :-). I had a sneaking suspicion about that. I'll make sure there's a more robust solution in the next release. -Barry From webweave@yeah.net Thu Aug 3 04:09:43 2000 From: webweave@yeah.net (webweave) Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2000 11:09:43 +0800 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] I want to ask some questions about Default.py Message-ID: <004101bffcf8$48634ee0$3401a8c0@sowen.gzetang.com> SGVsbG8gQWxsOg0KICAgIEkgd2FudCB0byBhc2sgc29tZSBxdWVzdGlvbnMgYWJvdXQgbWFpbG1h bi4NCiAgICANCiAgICBJbiBEZWZhdWx0LnB5IEkgZm91bmQgdHdvIGtpbmRzIG9mIERFTElWRVJZ X01vdWRsZS5XaGF0J3MgZGlmZmVyZW50IGJldHdlZW4gIlNlbmRtYWlsIiBhbmQgIlNUTVBEaXJl Y3QiPyBEbyBhbnlvbmUgdGhpbmsgaXQgaXMgcG9zc2JpbGUgdGhhdCBtYWlsbWFuIGNhbiB3b3Jr IHdpdGggRXhjaGFuZ2UgU2VydmVyPw0KICAgIEkgdHJpZWQgdG8gY2hhbmdlICJTTVRQSE9TVD1s b2NhbGhvc3QiIHRvICJTTVRQSE9TVD0xOTIuMTY4LjEuMjU0Iix3aGljaCBpcyBhbm90aGVyIGxp bnV4IG1hY2hpbmUgd2l0aCBzZW5kbWFpbCBzZXJ2aWNlLlRoZSBEZWxpdmVyeV9Nb3VkZWwgc3Rp bGwgd2FzICJTTVRQRGlyZWN0IixidXQgdGhlIG1haWxtYW4gY2FuJ3Qgd29yayBwcm9wZXJseSxJ IGNhbid0IHJlY2VpdmUgYW55IGxldHRlciBmcm9tIG15IG93biBtYWlsaW5nIGxpc3QuSG93IGNh biBJIHNldCBTTVRQIFNlcnZlciB0byBhbm90aGVyIG1hY2hpbmU/DQogICAgQXQgbGFzdCxJIHdh bnQgdG8ga25vdyx3aGF0IGlzIHRoZSBTTVRQcG9ydCBtZWFuPyBJcyBpdCBQT1A/IHdoeSBub3Qg MjU/DQoNClBscyBIZWxwIG1lLiBeXikNCkJlc3QgUmVnYXJkcyENClNvd2VuDQo= From Dan Mick Thu Aug 3 04:19:32 2000 From: Dan Mick (Dan Mick) Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 20:19:32 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Mailman-Developers] I want to ask some questions about Default.py Message-ID: <200008030318.UAA20894@utopia.west.sun.com> > In Default.py I found two kinds of DELIVERY_Moudle.What's different between "Sendmail" and "STMPDirect"? Did you read the comments like the comment in Defaults.py said to? Read the front part of Handlers/Sendmail.py and Handlers/SMTPDirect.py. > Do anyone think it is possbile that mailman can work with Exchange Server? Sure, assuming Exchange Server speaks SMTP. > I tried to change "SMTPHOST=localhost" to "SMTPHOST=192.168.1.254",which is another linux machine with sendmail service.The Delivery_Moudel still was "SMTPDirect",but the mailman can't work properly,I can't receive any letter from my own mailing list.How can I set SMTP Server to another machine? That might work, but without some sort of details about "can't work properly" (did it explode? Did you see Satan? Did it start oozing butterscotch pudding?) it's hard to say. > At last,I want to know,what is the SMTPport mean? The port on which SMTP runs. > Is it POP? No, SMTP is not POP. > why not 25? If you mean "Why does Defaults.py set it to 0 instead of 25", the comment on that same line is a big clue: SMTPPORT = 0 # default from smtplib I haven't read the code in smtplib, but it seems to me that says "get the default value from smtplib". By golly, reading smtplib.py gives the answer again: If specified, `port' specifies the port to which to connect. By default, smtplib.SMTP_PORT is used. From Ricardo Kustner Thu Aug 3 08:47:13 2000 From: Ricardo Kustner (Ricardo Kustner) Date: 03 Aug 2000 07:47:13 CEST Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Database API In-Reply-To: <39887EAD.D4A14E1B@leo.gov> References: <39887EAD.D4A14E1B@leo.gov> Message-ID: <200008030547.HAA19112@smtp1.xs4all.nl> Hi, On Wed, 02 Aug 2000 16:03:57 -0400, Andy Lowe said: [sourceforge/cvs] > OK, assuming we have a working draft for the database API, how do we go > Does SourceForge allow you to checkout via https? I don't think so No it looks like they only support pserver through ssh. You don't have ssh access through your firewall? i think there's a ftp add-on for cvs server; we could setup repos. somewhere else From Ricardo Kustner Thu Aug 3 08:53:44 2000 From: Ricardo Kustner (Ricardo Kustner) Date: 03 Aug 2000 07:53:44 CEST Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Database API In-Reply-To: <200008030547.HAA19112@smtp1.xs4all.nl> References: <39887EAD.D4A14E1B@leo.gov> <200008030547.HAA19112@smtp1.xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <200008030553.HAA20261@smtp8.xs4all.nl> On 03 Aug 2000 07:47:13 CEST, Ricardo Kustner said: > Hi, > > On Wed, 02 Aug 2000 16:03:57 -0400, Andy Lowe said: > > [sourceforge/cvs] > > OK, assuming we have a working draft for the database API, how do we go > > Does SourceForge allow you to checkout via https? I don't think so > No it looks like they only support pserver through ssh. You don't have ssh > access > through your firewall? > i think there's a ftp add-on for cvs server; we could setup repos. somewhere > else hey where did the rest of my message go? well i'll re-write it tonight... i have to rush for work now... Ricardo.. -- http://rixhq.nu "You think that's air you're breathing?" -- Morpheus From jeremy@beopen.com Thu Aug 3 17:11:44 2000 From: jeremy@beopen.com (Jeremy Hylton) Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2000 12:11:44 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Database API In-Reply-To: <33660711@toto.iv> Message-ID: <14729.39360.535677.987013@bitdiddle.concentric.net> I am also interested in breaking up the way Mailman stores information about lists and subscribers. I'd like the database API to be a bit more general, however. There are a number of groups interested in using LDAP to store subscriber names. Some people are interested in using Zope/ZODB, too, although I happen to think that mailing list subscriber data is embarassingly rectangular. I think the right approach is to write up a good architecture document that describes what data Mailman needs to store and what APIs can be used to plug in different storage technologies. Let's get buy-in from people interested in RDBMS, ZODB, and LDAP before we start writing code. Once a good architecture document is in place and Barry releases 2.0 final, we could probably convince him to allow major revisions to the CVS repository without branching. Jeremy From wheakory@isu.edu Thu Aug 3 19:02:48 2000 From: wheakory@isu.edu (Kory Wheatley) Date: Thu, 03 Aug 2000 12:02:48 -0600 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Re: [Mailman-Announce] Mailman 2.0 beta 5 References: <14727.42080.119761.425152@anthem.concentric.net> Message-ID: <3989B3C8.9F00B1A7@isu.edu> "Barry A. Warsaw" wrote: > Folks, > > I've just released Mailman 2.0 beta 5. This is an important bug fix > release that should once and for all solve the "cookie > re-authentication" bug. It also fixes a small security hole that > could be exploited by clever local users to gain group mailman > permission. > > As usual, you can get the tarball from SourceForge > > http://download.sourceforge.net/mailman/mailman-2.0beta5.tgz > > or list.org > > http://www.list.org/mailman.tar.gz > > or (soon) ftp.gnu.org > > ftp://ftp.gnu.org/gnu/mailman/mailman-2.0beta5.tgz > > Please let me know how it goes for you. Remember to use the > SourceForge bug tracker for reporting bugs NOT the old Jitterbug > database on python.org (which I cannot shut off right now). Also, > patches should be uploaded to the SourceForge patch manager. > > Enjoy, > -Barry > > _______________________________________________ > Mailman-announce mailing list > Mailman-announce@python.org > http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-announce Question how do I delete a message out of mailman that just keeps resending over and over, it a 4.3mb message and it keeps sending to a mail server user account who is over their quota I am running Sendmail as my MTA. -- ######################################### Kory Wheatley Academic Computing Analyst Sr. Phone 282-3874 ######################################### Everything must point to him. From bwarsaw@beopen.com Thu Aug 3 20:01:12 2000 From: bwarsaw@beopen.com (Barry A. Warsaw) Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2000 15:01:12 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Re: [Mailman-Announce] Mailman 2.0 beta 5 References: <14727.42080.119761.425152@anthem.concentric.net> <3989B3C8.9F00B1A7@isu.edu> Message-ID: <14729.49528.611981.499078@anthem.concentric.net> >>>>> "KW" == Kory Wheatley writes: KW> Question how do I delete a message out of mailman that just KW> keeps resending over and over, it a 4.3mb message and it keeps KW> sending to a mail server user account who is over their quota KW> I am running Sendmail as my MTA. Their account is probably giving you a temporary error code during the smtp transaction. Mailman will eventually time those deliveries out and zap them, but you can also just go into the qfiles/ directory, find the offending message and delete the appropriate .msg and .db files. Use cat on the .msg file and bin/dumpdb on the .db file to find out some interesting information. -Barry From ajlowe@leo.gov Thu Aug 3 21:53:08 2000 From: ajlowe@leo.gov (Andy Lowe) Date: Thu, 03 Aug 2000 16:53:08 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Database API References: <14729.39360.535677.987013@bitdiddle.concentric.net> Message-ID: <3989DBB4.A61FF137@leo.gov> I have found a way around my firewall, so cvs should not be an issue any longer. Jeremy Hylton wrote: > > I am also interested in breaking up the way Mailman stores information > about lists and subscribers. I'd like the database API to be a bit > more general, however. There are a number of groups interested in > using LDAP to store subscriber names. Some people are interested in > using Zope/ZODB, too, although I happen to think that mailing list > subscriber data is embarassingly rectangular. I agree with you completely, and I attempted to do that. I think a LDAP backend to the currently proposed API would be fine, and as I said, I am not very familiar with Zope, but as I understand it Zope is basically a web site in a database. This makes me think Zope would work as well. Do you have any suggestions as to how we could make the API more general? I am all for it. > > I think the right approach is to write up a good architecture document > that describes what data Mailman needs to store and what APIs can be > used to plug in different storage technologies. Let's get buy-in from > people interested in RDBMS, ZODB, and LDAP before we start writing > code. I theoretically agree with the above statement. My problem is that my boss says I have to have something which at least functions on our site by the 9th of August :). I think that may be a bit unrealistic, but I am going to to my best to have something done by then. I have tried to write a rough architecture document, and I would love some help on it. I am inexperienced in this arena and would love to hear from those of you who know more about mailman and can better describe what data mailman needs and how the API should be set up. As for ZODB and LDAP, I am all for people interested in those backends giving input. I have failed to find anyone interest in helping with them yet. Any takers? > Once a good architecture document is in place and Barry releases 2.0 > final, we could probably convince him to allow major revisions to the > CVS repository without branching. Yet again I agree, but I am on a very tight schedule. Perhaps I should just hack something together for my sight while we wait for the final release of 2.0 I am guessing that something like the backend API is close to being worthy of a major version number, and would result in a fork in the code anyways (where the 2.0 series continues to fix bugs etc. . . until the first alpha in the next version is released) In the meantime I will rewrite / clean up the API architecture document to solve approach the problem from the point of mailman data needs. A. L. From zhang.hong@etang.net Fri Aug 4 05:06:45 2000 From: zhang.hong@etang.net (sowen) Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2000 12:06:45 +0800 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Show the mailing list content on web Message-ID: <013901bffdc9$6f289e50$3401a8c0@sowen.gzetang.com> SGksQWxsOg0KDQpEbyBhbnlvbmUga25vdyBob3cgdG8gc2hvdyB0aGUgbWFpbGluZyBsaXN0IGNv bnRlbnQgb24gd2ViPw0KSWYgSSB3YW50IHRvIG1ha2UgYSBpbnRlcmZhY2UgbGlrZSBPVVRMT09L IHRvIHNob3cgbWFpbGluZ19saXN0IG5hbWUsIG1haWxpbmdfbGlzdCBhcnRpY2FsIHRpdGxlIGFu ZCBtYWlsaW5nX2xpc3QgY29udGVudCwgY2FuIEkgdXNlIHNvbWUgZXhpc3RlbnQgY2xhc3MgaW4g TWFpbG1hbiB0byBkbyB0aGF0Pw0KDQoNCkJlc3QgUmVnYXJkcyENClNvd2VuDQo= From webweave@yeah.net Fri Aug 4 05:07:47 2000 From: webweave@yeah.net (sowen) Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2000 12:07:47 +0800 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Show the mailing list content on web Message-ID: <014b01bffdc9$8f5995d0$3401a8c0@sowen.gzetang.com> SGksQWxsOg0KDQpEbyBhbnlvbmUga25vdyBob3cgdG8gc2hvdyB0aGUgbWFpbGluZyBsaXN0IGNv bnRlbnQgb24gd2ViPw0KSWYgSSB3YW50IHRvIG1ha2UgYSBpbnRlcmZhY2UgbGlrZSBPVVRMT09L IHRvIHNob3cgbWFpbGluZ19saXN0IG5hbWUsIG1haWxpbmdfbGlzdCBhcnRpY2FsIHRpdGxlIGFu ZCBtYWlsaW5nX2xpc3QgY29udGVudCwgY2FuIEkgdXNlIHNvbWUgZXhpc3RlbnQgY2xhc3MgaW4g TWFpbG1hbiB0byBkbyB0aGF0Pw0KDQoNCkJlc3QgUmVnYXJkcyENClNvd2VuDQo= From Nigel.Metheringham@VData.co.uk Fri Aug 4 09:16:04 2000 From: Nigel.Metheringham@VData.co.uk (Nigel Metheringham) Date: Fri, 04 Aug 2000 09:16:04 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Re: [Mailman-Announce] Mailman 2.0 beta 5 In-Reply-To: Message from Kory Wheatley of "Thu, 03 Aug 2000 12:02:48 MDT." <3989B3C8.9F00B1A7@isu.edu> Message-ID: wheakory@isu.edu said: > Question how do I delete a message out of mailman that just keeps > resending over and over, it a 4.3mb message and it keeps sending to a > mail server user account who is over their quota I am running Sendmail > as my MTA. Are you sure its *mailman* doing this? Mailman would not get involved in resending mail to a user whose MTA temporarily (or permanently) rejected a mail - that should be done by the MTA. Check whether this message is in your sendmail queue and dispose of it appropriately (not sure how as a non sendmail user). Nigel. -- [ - Opinions expressed are personal and may not be shared by VData - ] [ Nigel Metheringham Nigel.Metheringham@VData.co.uk ] [ Phone: +44 1423 850000 Fax +44 1423 858866 ] From webweave@yeah.net Tue Aug 8 07:09:40 2000 From: webweave@yeah.net (sowen) Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2000 14:09:40 +0800 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Distribute question! Message-ID: <017901c000ff$3d1b1760$3401a8c0@sowen.gzetang.com> aGksQWxsOg0KICAgIEkgaGF2ZSBhIHF1ZXN0aW9uIG9uIGRpc3RyaWJ1dGluZyB0aGUgU01UUCBT ZXJ2ZXIgYW5kIHRoZSBXZWIgU2VydmVyIHRvIHR3byBtYWNoaW5lcy5UaGUgbWFpbG1hbiBpbnN0 YWxsZWQgb24gdGhlIG1hY2hpbmUgMTkyLjE2OC4xLjIsYSBSZWRoYXQgbGludXggd2hpY2ggaGFz IEFwYWNoZSBhbmQgU2VuZG1haWwgU2VydmljZS5FdmVyeXRoaW5nIHdhcyBPSyB3aGVuIHRoZSBT TVRQIFNlcnZlciBhbmQgdGhlIFdlYiBTZXJ2ZXIgYWxsIGZvY3VzZWQgb24gdGhlIDE5Mi4xNjgu MS4yLkkgY291bGQgcmVjZWl2ZSBjb25maXJtIGVtYWlsIGZyb20gbXkgbWFpbGluZ2xpc3QuTm8g ZXJyb3IgZm91bmQgaW4gdGhlIGxvZyBmaWxlcy4NCiAgICBCdXQgaWYgSSBjaGFuZ2VkIHRoZSBT TVRQIFNlcnZlciB0byBhbm90aGVyIFJlZGhhdCBMaW51eCx3aGljaCBoYXMgU2VuZG1haWwgU2Vy dmljZSB0b28sc29tZXRoaW5nIHdyb25nIG5vdy4odGhlIGNoYW5nZSBtZWFuZWQgdGhhdCBJIG1v ZGlmaWVkIHRoZSBEZWZhdWx0cy5weSxJIHNldCBTTVRQSE9TVD0iMTkyLjE2OC4xLjI1NCIpDQog ICAgSSBmb3VuZCB0aGUgbG9nIGZpbGUgb2YgMTkyLjE2OC4xLjI1NCBpbiB2YXIvbG9nL21haWxv Zy4NCiAgICBJdCBoYXBwZW5lZCB3aGVuIEkgc3Vic2NyaWJlZCB0aGUgbWFpbGluZyBsaXN0LkFu ZCBJIGFsc28gZm91bmQgdGhhdCB0aGUgbWFpbG1hbidzIGNyb24gam9iIHN0aWxsIHVzZWQgdGhl IDE5Mi4xNjguMS4yIHRvIHNlbmRtYWlsLGV2ZW4gSSBzZW50IHRoZSBTTVRQIFNlcnZlciB0byAx OTIuMTY4LjEuMjU0Lg0KDQp0aGUgZXJyb3IgbG9nIGRldGFpbCBpbiAxOTIuMTY4LjEuMjU0IGlz Og0KLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t LS0tLS0tDQpBdWcgIDcgMTE6NTU6MzIgYWRzbDIgc2VuZG1haWxbMTQ4MDBdOiBMQUExNDgwMDog cnVsZXNldD1jaGVja19yY3B0LCBhcmcxPTxzb3dlbmNAY2hpbmFyZW4uY29tPiwgcmVsYXk9SURF TlQ6bm9ib2R5QFsxOTIuMTY4LjEuMl0sIHJlamVjdD01NTAgPHNvd2VuY0BjaGluYXJlbi5jb20+ Li4uIFJlbGF5aW5nIGRlbmllZA0KQXVnICA3IDExOjU1OjMyIGFkc2wyIHNlbmRtYWlsWzE0ODAw XTogTEFBMTQ4MDA6IGZyb209PG5ld3MtYWRtaW5AbGludXg+LCBzaXplPTEzNTcsIGNsYXNzPTAs IHByaT0wLCBucmNwdHM9MCwgcHJvdG89RVNNVFAsIHJlbGF5PUlERU5UOm5vYm9keUBbMTkyLjE2 OC4xLjJdDQpBdWcgIDcgMTE6NTc6MTEgYWRzbDIgc2VuZG1haWxbMTQ4MDJdOiBMQUExNDgwMjog cnVsZXNldD1jaGVja19yY3B0LCBhcmcxPTxzb3dlbkAyNjMubmV0PiwgcmVsYXk9SURFTlQ6bm9i b2R5QFsxOTIuMTY4LjEuMl0sIHJlamVjdD01NTAgPHNvd2VuQDI2My5uZXQ+Li4uIFJlbGF5aW5n IGRlbmllZA0KQXVnICA3IDExOjU3OjExIGFkc2wyIHNlbmRtYWlsWzE0ODAyXTogTEFBMTQ4MDI6 IGZyb209PG5ld3MtYWRtaW5AbGludXg+LCBzaXplPTEwMDIsIGNsYXNzPTAsIHByaT0wLCBucmNw dHM9MCwgcHJvdG89RVNNVFAsIHJlbGF5PUlERU5UOm5vYm9keUBbMTkyLjE2OC4xLjJdDQotLS0t LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0N Cg0KdGhlIGVycm9yIGxvZyBpbiAxOTIuMTY4LjEuMiBpczoNCi0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t LS0tDQpBdWcgIDYgMTQ6MzU6MjMgbGludXggc2VuZG1haWxbMTc1MDZdOiBMQUEwMjIyMTogdG89 PHNvd2VuQHllYWgubmV0PiwgZGVsYXk9MiswMg0KOjU3OjMzLCB4ZGVsYXk9MDA6MDA6MTIsIG1h aWxlcj1lc210cCwgcmVsYXk9bm14LnllYWgubmV0LiBbMjAyLjEwNi4xODUuMTExXSwgc3QNCmF0 PURlZmVycmVkOiA0NTAgPG5ld3MtYWRtaW5AbG9jYWxob3N0LmxvY2FsZG9tYWluPjogU2VuZGVy IGFkZHJlc3MgcmVqZWN0ZWQ6IERvDQptYWluIG5vdCBmb3VuZA0KLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t LS0tLS0NCg0KV2hhdCBjYW4gSSBkbyBub3c/DQoNCg0KDQpHcmVldGluZyENClNvd2VuDQoNCg== From thomas@xs4all.net Tue Aug 8 10:46:09 2000 From: thomas@xs4all.net (Thomas Wouters) Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2000 11:46:09 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Bugreports ;) Message-ID: <20000808114608.B266@xs4all.nl> I submitted a new bug yesterday, but I haven't been getting the SF 'bug update mails' even when I added new text, so I'm not sure if the folx who keep track of those things (Barry alone, I assume ? :P) saw it. The bug is that when you try to subscribe via de 'subscribe' page, and you don't fill in any password, you get the response 3 times. The fix is easy, and described in the bugreport ;) #111306. -- Thomas Wouters Hi! I'm a .signature virus! copy me into your .signature file to help me spread! From Ricardo Kustner Tue Aug 8 21:30:00 2000 From: Ricardo Kustner (Ricardo Kustner) Date: 08 Aug 2000 20:30:00 CEST Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Database API In-Reply-To: <3989DBB4.A61FF137@leo.gov> References: <14729.39360.535677.987013@bitdiddle.concentric.net> <3989DBB4.A61FF137@leo.gov> Message-ID: <200008081829.UAA11837@smtp9.xs4all.nl> On Thu, 03 Aug 2000 16:53:08 -0400, Andy Lowe said: > Jeremy Hylton wrote: > > I am also interested in breaking up the way Mailman stores information > > about lists and subscribers. I'd like the database API to be a bit > > more general, however. There are a number of groups interested in > I agree with you completely, and I attempted to do that. I think a > LDAP backend to the currently proposed API would be fine, and as I said, >> I think the right approach is to write up a good architecture document >> that describes what data Mailman needs to store and what APIs can be >> used to plug in different storage technologies. Let's get buy-in from >> people interested in RDBMS, ZODB, and LDAP before we start writing >> code. LDAP sounds great to me too... we might be moving to LDAP soon at work too, which would make it interesting to integrate it with our local mailman lists. I think it would be great if Andy work out API document some more and i bet he can use his experience with the 'hack' he needs to finnish tommorrow ;) Ricardo. -- http://rixhq.nu "You think that's air you're breathing?" -- Morpheus From marc_news@valinux.com Thu Aug 10 00:07:25 2000 From: marc_news@valinux.com (Marc MERLIN) Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 16:07:25 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Reply-To in 2.0-beta5 Message-ID: <20000809160725.F1769@marc.merlins.org> I just realized that the explicit reply-to to a an external address doesn't exactly do what I need. I'd like my list to force the reply-to to another list if no reply to is set, but honor a given reply to if there is one. (it's an announce list and I want to put a fallback reply-to if there isn't any, but let the posting user redirect to another Email if needed) In "Where are replies to list messages directed?", can we have: "Poster/This list/Explicit address/Explicit address if unset" ? Thanks a bunch, Marc -- Microsoft is to software what McDonalds is to gourmet cooking Home page: http://marc.merlins.org/ (friendly to non IE browsers) Finger marc_f@merlins.org for PGP key and other contact information From darrell@grumblesmurf.net Thu Aug 10 00:13:26 2000 From: darrell@grumblesmurf.net (Darrell Fuhriman) Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 16:13:26 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Reply-To in 2.0-beta5 In-Reply-To: <20000809160725.F1769@marc.merlins.org> Message-ID: > (it's an announce list and I want to put a fallback reply-to if there isn't > any, but let the posting user redirect to another Email if needed) I personally think this should be the default behavior for all reply-to's. If the user has one set, they probably have a good reason for doing so and it should be left alone. Darrell From webweave@yeah.net Fri Aug 11 04:47:10 2000 From: webweave@yeah.net (sowen) Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2000 11:47:10 +0800 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] hi,Guys.Would anyone help me? Message-ID: <007e01c00346$da0ec910$3401a8c0@sowen.gzetang.com> aGksZ3V5cy4NCiAgICBXb3VsZCBhbnlvbmUgbGlrZSB0byBoZWxwIG1lPw0KICAgIEkgd2FudCB0 byBtYWtlIG1haWwgbGlzdCBhcmNoaXZlcyBwYWdlLGJ1dCBJIGhhdmUgbm8gYW55IGlkZWEgbm93 LldvdWxkIGFueW9uZSBsaWtlIHRvIGdpdmUgbWUgdGhlIHNvdXJjZSBjb2RlIG9mIG1hbGkgbGlz dCBhcmNoaXZlcyBwYWdlPw0KDQpUaGFua3MhDQpTb3dlbg0K From webweave@yeah.net Fri Aug 11 04:58:55 2000 From: webweave@yeah.net (sowen) Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2000 11:58:55 +0800 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] I have another question about search Message-ID: <008601c00348$7a4932c0$3401a8c0@sowen.gzetang.com> aGksR3V5czoNCiAgICBJIGhhdmUgYW5vdGhlciBxdWVzdGlvbiBhYm91dCBzZWFyY2ggdGhlIHVz ZXIuDQogICAgSSBmb3VuZCB0aGF0IHRoZSBtYWlsbWFuIGlzIGhhcmQgdG8gc2VhcmNoIHVzZXIu SG93IGRvIEkgd3JpdGUgYSBwcm9ncmFtIHRvIHNlYXJjaCB0aGUgdXNlciBpbiB0aGUgbWFpbCBs aXN0PyBob3cgdG8gb3BlbiBkYXRhYmFzZSxob3cgdG8gcnVuIGEgcXVlcnksaG93IHRvIHNob3cg dGhlIHJlc3VsdC4NCiAgICBJIHdhcyBhbiBBU1AgJiBDR0kgcHJvZ3JhbWVyLGJ1dCBJIGhhdmUg 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Aug 11 05:15:47 2000 From: Dan Mick (Dan Mick) Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 21:15:47 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Mailman-Developers] I have another question about search Message-ID: <200008110414.VAA16507@utopia.west.sun.com> > I found that the mailman is hard to search user.How do I write a program to search the user in the mail list? bin/find_member already does this. Why do you need something else? And if you do, start from there... From webweave@yeah.net Fri Aug 11 06:19:09 2000 From: webweave@yeah.net (sowen) Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2000 13:19:09 +0800 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] I have another question about search Message-ID: <00cd01c00353$b3056ce0$3401a8c0@sowen.gzetang.com> eWVzLEkgcmVhbGx5IHdhbnQgdG8gZG8gdGhpcy5CdXQgaG93IGNhbiBJIHJldHVybiB0aGUgcmVz dWx0cyBhbmQgc2hvdyB0aGVtIG9uIFdlYiBwYWdlPw0Kd2h5IG5vdCByZWFkIHRoZSBkYXRhYmFz ZSBkaXJlY3RseSBhbmQgc2hvdyB0aGUgcmVzdWx0Pw0KDQoNCj5TbyBob29rIGZpbmRfbWVtYmVy IHVwIHRvIGEgd2ViIHBhZ2Ugd2l0aCBhIENHSS4NCg0KPiBGcm9tOiAic293ZW4iIDx3ZWJ3ZWF2 ZUB5ZWFoLm5ldD4NCj4gVG86ICJEYW4gTWljayIgPERhbi5NaWNrQHdlc3Quc3VuLmNvbT4NCj4g U3ViamVjdDogUmU6IFtNYWlsbWFuLURldmVsb3BlcnNdIEkgaGF2ZSBhbm90aGVyIHF1ZXN0aW9u IGFib3V0IHNlYXJjaA0KPiBEYXRlOiBGcmksIDExIEF1ZyAyMDAwIDEzOjAyOjQwICswODAwDQo+ IFgtTUlNRS1BdXRvY29udmVydGVkOiBmcm9tIGJhc2U2NCB0byA4Yml0IGJ5IHV0b3BpYS53ZXN0 LnN1bi5jb20gaWQgVkFBMTY5NDQNCj4gDQo+IG5vLG5vLEkgbWVhbnMgSSB3YW50IHRvIHNlYXJj aCB1c2VyIG9uIFdlYiBwYWdlLGFuZCBzaG93IHRoZSBxdWVyeSByZXN1bHRzIG9uIA0KV2ViIHBh Z2UuICBeXg0KPiANCj4gLS0tLS0gT3JpZ2luYWwgTWVzc2FnZSAtLS0tLSANCj4gRnJvbTogIkRh biBNaWNrIiA8RGFuLk1pY2tAV2VzdC5TdW4uQ09NPg0KPiBUbzogPG1haWxtYW4tZGV2ZWxvcGVy c0BweXRob24ub3JnPjsgPHdlYndlYXZlQHllYWgubmV0Pg0KPiBTZW50OiBGcmlkYXksIEF1Z3Vz dCAxMSwgMjAwMCAxMjoxNSBQTQ0KPiBTdWJqZWN0OiBSZTogW01haWxtYW4tRGV2ZWxvcGVyc10g SSBoYXZlIGFub3RoZXIgcXVlc3Rpb24gYWJvdXQgc2VhcmNoDQo+IA0KPiANCj4gPiANCj4gPiA+ ICAgICBJIGZvdW5kIHRoYXQgdGhlIG1haWxtYW4gaXMgaGFyZCB0byBzZWFyY2ggdXNlci5Ib3cg ZG8gSSB3cml0ZSBhIA0KcHJvZ3JhbSANCj4gPiB0byBzZWFyY2ggdGhlIHVzZXIgaW4gdGhlIG1h aWwgbGlzdD8gDQo+ID4gDQo+ID4gYmluL2ZpbmRfbWVtYmVyIGFscmVhZHkgZG9lcyB0aGlzLiAg V2h5IGRvIHlvdSBuZWVkIHNvbWV0aGluZw0KPiA+IGVsc2U/ICBBbmQgaWYgeW91IGRvLCBzdGFy dCBmcm9tIHRoZXJlLi4uDQo+ID4gDQo+ID4gDQo+ID4gX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX18NCj4gPiBNYWlsbWFuLURldmVsb3BlcnMgbWFpbGluZyBs aXN0DQo+ID4gTWFpbG1hbi1EZXZlbG9wZXJzQHB5dGhvbi5vcmcNCj4gPiBodHRwOi8vd3d3LnB5 dGhvbi5vcmcvbWFpbG1hbi9saXN0aW5mby9tYWlsbWFuLWRldmVsb3BlcnMNCg== From Dan Mick Fri Aug 11 06:21:50 2000 From: Dan Mick (Dan Mick) Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 22:21:50 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Mailman-Developers] I have another question about search Message-ID: <200008110520.WAA17325@utopia.west.sun.com> > yes,I really want to do this.But how can I return the results and show th= em on=20 Web page? I don't understand the question. A CGI program can take the output of any command it can run and display it on the web page. ?? Perhaps you don't understand what CGI is?... > why not read the database directly and show the result? "reading the database directly" is what find_member does... >=20 >=20 > >So hook find_member up to a web page with a CGI. >=20 > > From: "sowen" > > To: "Dan Mick" > > Subject: Re: [Mailman-Developers] I have another question about search > > Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2000 13:02:40 +0800 > > X-MIME-Autoconverted: from base64 to 8bit by utopia.west.sun.com id VAA= 16944 > >=20 > > no,no,I means I want to search user on Web page,and show the query resu= lts=20 on=20 > Web page. ^^ > >=20 > > ----- Original Message -----=20 > > From: "Dan Mick" > > To: ; > > Sent: Friday, August 11, 2000 12:15 PM > > Subject: Re: [Mailman-Developers] I have another question about search > >=20 > >=20 > > >=20 > > > > I found that the mailman is hard to search user.How do I write = a=20 > program=20 > > > to search the user in the mail list?=20 > > >=20 > > > bin/find_member already does this. Why do you need something > > > else? And if you do, start from there... > > >=20 > > >=20 > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Mailman-Developers mailing list > > > Mailman-Developers@python.org > > > http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers >=20 =FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF= =FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=CCj)fj=7F=C3z=F7=A5=A2=97=AB=B2f=A2=96)=E0= =96+-1=A8=A5=99=A9=FF=EB=DE=96=8A^=AE=CF=E9=CA=D8h=9F=FA+=82=1Bm =A7=FF=FF=C3=0C=FF=A7+a=A2=7F=E8=AE=0F=E6j)fj=7F=E5=8A=CBb=9D=FA?=99=A8=A5= =99=A9=FFu=EB=DE=96=8A^ From claw@nuron.com Fri Aug 11 06:40:17 2000 From: claw@nuron.com (J C Lawrence) Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 22:40:17 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] hi,Guys.Would anyone help me? In-Reply-To: Message from "sowen" of "Fri, 11 Aug 2000 11:47:10 +0800." <007e01c00346$da0ec910$3401a8c0@sowen.gzetang.com> References: <007e01c00346$da0ec910$3401a8c0@sowen.gzetang.com> Message-ID: <2699.965972417@nuron.com> On Fri, 11 Aug 2000 11:47:10 +0800 sowen wrote: > hi,guys. Would anyone like to help me? I want to make mail list > archives page,but I have no any idea now.Would anyone like to give > me the source code of mali list archives page? The sources for the archives at Kanga.nu: http://www.kanga.nu/archives/ Can be found here: ftp://ftp.kanga.nu/pub/Kanga.Nu/WebArchives/ Its not an entirely trivial system as it uses MHonArc for the archiving and PHP to handle various things like the ability to reply to list messages directly from the archive web pages. A more simple, and purely MHonArc based set of RC's that I used to use can be found here: ftp://ftp.kanga.nu/pub/Kanga.Nu/WebArchives.old/ The wrapping scripts for the older archives are largely the same as the versions in: ftp://ftp.kanga.nu/pub/Kanga.Nu/WebArchives/scripts/ -- J C Lawrence Home: claw@kanga.nu ---------(*) Work: claw@nuron.com http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/ Keys etc: finger claw@kanga.nu --=| A man is as sane as he is dangerous to his environment |=-- From Dan Mick Fri Aug 11 07:23:14 2000 From: Dan Mick (Dan Mick) Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 23:23:14 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Different approach to monthly password reminders Message-ID: <200008110622.XAA18633@utopia.west.sun.com> Here is a hacked up 'mailpasswds' program that will 1) send one message per user per list 2) make that message contain only that list's password 3) make the message originate from the list's admin address 4) include the listname in the Subject header This seems to be along the lines of what some people expect from the monthly password reminders (instead of what they get). YMMV, and I haven't tested this with every possible list config. I also haven't yet changed any comments. If you'd like to experiment without actually sending messages, remove the '#' from '# print msg' (at the end of the function 'mail_passwords') and put a '# ' before HandlerAPI.DeliverToUser(mlist, msg) right below it...i.e. switch # print msg HandlerAPI.DeliverToUser(mlist, msg) to print msg # HandlerAPI.DeliverToUser(mlist, msg) Then when you run 'python mailpasswds.new', you'll get all the messages it would have sent printed on stdout instead of actually sending the mail. Here's mailpasswds.new: #! /usr/bin/env python # # Copyright (C) 1998,1999,2000 by the Free Software Foundation, Inc. # # This program is free software; you can redistribute it and/or # modify it under the terms of the GNU General Public License # as published by the Free Software Foundation; either version 2 # of the License, or (at your option) any later version. # # This program is distributed in the hope that it will be useful, # but WITHOUT ANY WARRANTY; without even the implied warranty of # MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE. See the # GNU General Public License for more details. # # You should have received a copy of the GNU General Public License # along with this program; if not, write to the Free Software # Foundation, Inc., 59 Temple Place - Suite 330, Boston, MA 02111-1307, USA. """Send password reminders for all lists to all users. Any arguments are taken as a list of addresses that become the focus - only the subscribers on the list are attended to, all other subscribers are ignored. In addition, if any addresses are specified, a line is printed for each list where that address is found. (Otherwise operation is silent.) We accumulate users and their passwords, and use the last list to send a single message to each user with their complete collection of passwords, rather than sending a single message for each password. If mm_cfg.VIRTUAL_HOST_OVERVIEW is true, we further group users by the virtual host the mailing lists are assigned to. This is so that virtual domains are treated like real separate machines. """ # This puppy should probably do lots of logging. import sys import os import string import errno import paths from Mailman import mm_cfg from Mailman import MailList from Mailman import Utils from Mailman import Message from Mailman.Handlers import HandlerAPI # Work around known problems with some RedHat cron daemons import signal signal.signal(signal.SIGCHLD, signal.SIG_DFL) def mail_passwords(mlist, users, host): """Send each user their complete list of passwords. The list can be any random one - it is only used for the message delivery mechanism. Users are grouped by virtual host. """ mailman_owner = mm_cfg.MAILMAN_OWNER for addr, data in users.items(): table = [] for l, r, p, u in data: if len(l) > 39: table.append("%s\n %-10s\n%s\n" % (l, p, u)) else: table.append("%-40s %-10s\n%s\n" % (l, p, u)) header = ("%-40s %-10s\n%-40s %-10s" % ("List", "Password // URL", "----", "--------")) text = Utils.maketext( 'cronpass.txt', {'hostname': host, 'useraddr': addr, 'exreq' : r, 'owner' : mailman_owner, }) # add this to the end so it doesn't get wrapped/filled text = text + header + '\n' + string.join(table, '\n') subj = l + " password reminder" msg = Message.UserNotification(addr, mlist.GetAdminEmail(), subj, text) msg['X-No-Archive'] = 'yes' # print msg HandlerAPI.DeliverToUser(mlist, msg) def main(): """Consolidate all the list/url/password info for each user, so we send the user a single message with the info for all their lists on this site. """ # constrain to specified lists, if any confined_to = sys.argv[1:] # Group lists by the assigned virtual host, if # mm_cfg.VIRTUAL_HOST_OVERVIEW is true. Otherwise, there's only one key # in this dictionary: mm_cfg.DEFAULT_HOST_NAME. Each entry in this # dictionary is a dictionary of user email addresses hosts = {} for listname in Utils.list_names(): if confined_to and listname not in confined_to: continue ## else: ## print 'Processing list:', listname mlist = MailList.MailList(listname, lock=0) if not mlist.send_reminders: continue listaddr = mlist.GetListEmail() listreq = mlist.GetRequestEmail() umbrella = mlist.umbrella_list # get host information if mm_cfg.VIRTUAL_HOST_OVERVIEW: host = mlist.host_name else: host = mm_cfg.DEFAULT_HOST_NAME # # each entry in this dictionary is a list of tuples of the following # form: (listaddr, listreq, password, url) users = {} for addr, passwd in mlist.passwords.items(): url = mlist.GetOptionsURL(addr, absolute=1) realaddr = mlist.GetUserSubscribedAddress(addr) if not realaddr: continue recip = mlist.GetMemberAdminEmail(realaddr) userinfo = (listaddr, listreq, passwd, url) infolist = users.get(recip, []) infolist.append(userinfo) users[recip] = infolist mail_passwords(mlist, users, host) if __name__ == '__main__': main() From webweave@yeah.net Fri Aug 11 08:48:28 2000 From: webweave@yeah.net (sowen) Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2000 15:48:28 +0800 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] hi,Guys.Would anyone help me? References: <007e01c00346$da0ec910$3401a8c0@sowen.gzetang.com> <2699.965972417@nuron.com> Message-ID: <014e01c00368$89d3dfe0$3401a8c0@sowen.gzetang.com> SSBhbSBzb3JyeSxJIGRvd24gdGhlIGZpbGUgeW91IHByb3ZpZGUuQnV0IEkgcmVhbGx5IGRvbid0 IHVuZGVyc3RhbmQgaG93IHRvIHVzZSB0aGVzZSBmaWxlcy4gIF5eKQ0KDQpHcmVldGluZyENClNv d2VuDQoNCi0tLS0tIE9yaWdpbmFsIE1lc3NhZ2UgLS0tLS0gDQpGcm9tOiAiSiBDIExhd3JlbmNl IiA8Y2xhd0BudXJvbi5jb20+DQpUbzogInNvd2VuIiA8d2Vid2VhdmVAeWVhaC5uZXQ+DQpDYzog PG1haWxtYW4tZGV2ZWxvcGVyc0BweXRob24ub3JnPg0KU2VudDogRnJpZGF5LCBBdWd1c3QgMTEs IDIwMDAgMTo0MCBQTQ0KU3ViamVjdDogUmU6IFtNYWlsbWFuLURldmVsb3BlcnNdIGhpLEd1eXMu V291bGQgYW55b25lIGhlbHAgbWU/IA0KDQoNCj4gT24gRnJpLCAxMSBBdWcgMjAwMCAxMTo0Nzox MCArMDgwMCANCj4gc293ZW4gIDx3ZWJ3ZWF2ZUB5ZWFoLm5ldD4gd3JvdGU6DQo+IA0KPiA+IGhp LGd1eXMuICBXb3VsZCBhbnlvbmUgbGlrZSB0byBoZWxwIG1lPyAgSSB3YW50IHRvIG1ha2UgbWFp bCBsaXN0DQo+ID4gYXJjaGl2ZXMgcGFnZSxidXQgSSBoYXZlIG5vIGFueSBpZGVhIG5vdy5Xb3Vs ZCBhbnlvbmUgbGlrZSB0byBnaXZlDQo+ID4gbWUgdGhlIHNvdXJjZSBjb2RlIG9mIG1hbGkgbGlz dCBhcmNoaXZlcyBwYWdlPw0KPiANCj4gVGhlIHNvdXJjZXMgZm9yIHRoZSBhcmNoaXZlcyBhdCBL YW5nYS5udToNCj4gDQo+ICAgaHR0cDovL3d3dy5rYW5nYS5udS9hcmNoaXZlcy8NCj4gDQo+IENh biBiZSBmb3VuZCBoZXJlOg0KPiANCj4gICBmdHA6Ly9mdHAua2FuZ2EubnUvcHViL0thbmdhLk51 L1dlYkFyY2hpdmVzLw0KPiANCj4gSXRzIG5vdCBhbiBlbnRpcmVseSB0cml2aWFsIHN5c3RlbSBh cyBpdCB1c2VzIE1Ib25BcmMgZm9yIHRoZQ0KPiBhcmNoaXZpbmcgYW5kIFBIUCB0byBoYW5kbGUg dmFyaW91cyB0aGluZ3MgbGlrZSB0aGUgYWJpbGl0eSB0byByZXBseQ0KPiB0byBsaXN0IG1lc3Nh Z2VzIGRpcmVjdGx5IGZyb20gdGhlIGFyY2hpdmUgd2ViIHBhZ2VzLg0KPiANCj4gQSBtb3JlIHNp bXBsZSwgYW5kIHB1cmVseSBNSG9uQXJjIGJhc2VkIHNldCBvZiBSQydzIHRoYXQgSSB1c2VkIHRv DQo+IHVzZSBjYW4gYmUgZm91bmQgaGVyZToNCj4gDQo+ICAgZnRwOi8vZnRwLmthbmdhLm51L3B1 Yi9LYW5nYS5OdS9XZWJBcmNoaXZlcy5vbGQvDQo+IA0KPiBUaGUgd3JhcHBpbmcgc2NyaXB0cyBm b3IgdGhlIG9sZGVyIGFyY2hpdmVzIGFyZSBsYXJnZWx5IHRoZSBzYW1lIGFzDQo+IHRoZSB2ZXJz aW9ucyBpbjoNCj4gDQo+ICAgZnRwOi8vZnRwLmthbmdhLm51L3B1Yi9LYW5nYS5OdS9XZWJBcmNo aXZlcy9zY3JpcHRzLw0KPiANCj4gLS0gDQo+IEogQyBMYXdyZW5jZSAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAg ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgIEhvbWU6IGNsYXdAa2FuZ2EubnUNCj4gLS0tLS0tLS0tKCopICAgICAg ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICBXb3JrOiBjbGF3QG51cm9uLmNvbQ0KPiBodHRwOi8v d3d3LmthbmdhLm51L35jbGF3LyAgICAgICAgS2V5cyBldGM6IGZpbmdlciBjbGF3QGthbmdhLm51 DQo+IC0tPXwgQSBtYW4gaXMgYXMgc2FuZSBhcyBoZSBpcyBkYW5nZXJvdXMgdG8gaGlzIGVudmly b25tZW50IHw9LS0NCj4gDQo+IF9fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fDQo+IE1haWxtYW4tRGV2ZWxvcGVycyBtYWlsaW5nIGxpc3QNCj4gTWFpbG1hbi1E ZXZlbG9wZXJzQHB5dGhvbi5vcmcNCj4gaHR0cDovL3d3dy5weXRob24ub3JnL21haWxtYW4vbGlz dGluZm8vbWFpbG1hbi1kZXZlbG9wZXJzDQo= From claw@nuron.com Fri Aug 11 19:15:23 2000 From: claw@nuron.com (J C Lawrence) Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2000 11:15:23 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] hi,Guys.Would anyone help me? In-Reply-To: Message from "sowen" of "Fri, 11 Aug 2000 15:48:28 +0800." <014e01c00368$89d3dfe0$3401a8c0@sowen.gzetang.com> References: <007e01c00346$da0ec910$3401a8c0@sowen.gzetang.com> <2699.965972417@nuron.com> <014e01c00368$89d3dfe0$3401a8c0@sowen.gzetang.com> Message-ID: <11474.966017723@nuron.com> On Fri, 11 Aug 2000 15:48:28 +0800 sowen wrote: > I am sorry,I down the file you provide.But I really don't > understand how to use these files. You'll have to read the MHonArc documentation: http://www.mhonarc.org/ and depending on which set you chose, PHP: http://www.php.net/ -- J C Lawrence Home: claw@kanga.nu ---------(*) Work: claw@nuron.com http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/ Keys etc: finger claw@kanga.nu --=| A man is as sane as he is dangerous to his environment |=-- From marc_news@valinux.com Mon Aug 14 07:15:34 2000 From: marc_news@valinux.com (Marc MERLIN) Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2000 23:15:34 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] bouncing users create Email dupes with 2.0 beta5 Message-ID: <20000813231534.A16323@marc.merlins.org> I saw http://sourceforge.net/bugs/?func=detailbug&bug_id=111176&group_id=103 but my report seems slight different, so here it is: Ok, so I had a mail server configuration and a list with 13 non local users. Because mailman telnets to port 25 instead or running sendmail directly, the Emails to non local users got bounced (we do not relay). The problem is that mailman apparently thought the Email didn't go through at all, and resent the whole Email 14 times, until the all the 13 users got removed from the list. The bug didn't happen when the users were still in "first" or "0 more allowed" mode, it happened when they started to be actually unsubscribed. Here's the mailman bounce log of when this happened: Aug 12 19:02:02 2000 (31157) Flash: grice@accesspr.com - exceeded limits Aug 12 19:02:02 2000 (31157) Flash: removed grice@accesspr.com Aug 12 19:03:01 2000 (31181) Flash: grice@accesspr.com - first Aug 12 19:03:01 2000 (31181) Flash: skelly@accesspr.com - exceeded limits Aug 12 19:03:02 2000 (31181) Flash: removed skelly@accesspr.com Aug 12 19:04:01 2000 (31205) flash: address grice@accesspr.com not a member. Aug 12 19:04:01 2000 (31205) Flash: skelly@accesspr.com - first Aug 12 19:04:01 2000 (31205) Flash: cstewart@accesspr.com - exceeded limits Aug 12 19:04:01 2000 (31205) Flash: removed cstewart@accesspr.com Aug 12 19:05:02 2000 (31230) flash: address grice@accesspr.com not a member. Aug 12 19:05:02 2000 (31230) flash: address skelly@accesspr.com not a member. Aug 12 19:05:02 2000 (31230) Flash: cstewart@accesspr.com - first Aug 12 19:05:02 2000 (31230) Flash: therman@accesspr.com - exceeded limits Aug 12 19:05:02 2000 (31230) Flash: removed therman@accesspr.com Aug 12 19:06:01 2000 (31255) flash: address grice@accesspr.com not a member. Aug 12 19:06:01 2000 (31255) flash: address skelly@accesspr.com not a member. Aug 12 19:06:01 2000 (31255) flash: address cstewart@accesspr.com not a member. (...) Aug 12 19:14:02 2000 (31456) Flash: mcoleman@accesspr.com - first Aug 12 19:14:02 2000 (31456) Flash: rglantz@accesspr.com - exceeded limits Aug 12 19:14:02 2000 (31456) Flash: removed rglantz@accesspr.com Aug 12 19:15:01 2000 (31483) flash: address grice@accesspr.com not a member. Aug 12 19:15:01 2000 (31483) flash: address skelly@accesspr.com not a member. Aug 12 19:15:01 2000 (31483) flash: address cstewart@accesspr.com not a member. Aug 12 19:15:01 2000 (31483) flash: address therman@accesspr.com not a member. Aug 12 19:15:01 2000 (31483) flash: address wtaylor@accesspr.com not a member. Aug 12 19:15:01 2000 (31483) flash: address nlarsen@accesspr.com not a member. Aug 12 19:15:01 2000 (31483) flash: address jim@userinterface.com not a member. Aug 12 19:15:01 2000 (31483) flash: address bschuman@accesspr.com not a member. Aug 12 19:15:01 2000 (31483) flash: address pcosturos@accesspr.com not a member. Aug 12 19:15:01 2000 (31483) flash: address pvelez@accesspr.com not a member. Aug 12 19:15:01 2000 (31483) flash: address ynakamoto@accesspr.com not a member. Aug 12 19:15:01 2000 (31483) flash: address mcoleman@accesspr.com not a member. Aug 12 19:15:01 2000 (31483) Flash: rglantz@accesspr.com - first Marc -- Microsoft is to software what McDonalds is to gourmet cooking Home page: http://marc.merlins.org/ (friendly to non IE browsers) Finger marc_f@merlins.org for PGP key and other contact information From bkuhn@ebb.org Mon Aug 14 19:22:09 2000 From: bkuhn@ebb.org (Bradley M. Kuhn) Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 14:22:09 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] List archives text format not mbox compatible? Message-ID: <20000814142209.G15052@ebb.org> --JgQwtEuHJzHdouWu Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline It appears that the text versions of the list archives that are generated by pipermail are not in mbox format Namely, the "From " line is built in a way that isn't compatible with mbox-based MUAs. I had never noticed this before, but it seems like there is no reason not to make them compatible with mbox. I think the most useful thing about offering text archives is that you can grab them and read them into an mbox MUA. Was the change in the "From " line format intentional, or is it a bug? if the former, can someone please explain the thinking behind it? -- Bradley M. Kuhn - http://www.ebb.org/bkuhn --JgQwtEuHJzHdouWu Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE5mDjR53XjJNtBs4cRAlrZAJ90tAxFTEB3hslDjOxMqAXgrk/wvwCfcLTV VkQnotK+x2JfjWgmzY+fEqA= =BDBS -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --JgQwtEuHJzHdouWu-- From thomas@xs4all.net Mon Aug 14 20:32:52 2000 From: thomas@xs4all.net (Thomas Wouters) Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 21:32:52 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] List archives text format not mbox compatible? In-Reply-To: <20000814142209.G15052@ebb.org>; from bkuhn@ebb.org on Mon, Aug 14, 2000 at 02:22:09PM -0400 References: <20000814142209.G15052@ebb.org> Message-ID: <20000814213252.V14470@xs4all.nl> On Mon, Aug 14, 2000 at 02:22:09PM -0400, Bradley M. Kuhn wrote: > It appears that the text versions of the list archives that are generated by > pipermail are not in mbox format Namely, the "From " line is built in a way > that isn't compatible with mbox-based MUAs. That's so for Mailman 1.1, and for old versions of 2.0beta. It's been fixed somewhere between 2.0b3 and 2.0b4, IIRC. At least, if we're talking about the same thing :) Since you don't elaborate on what's actually *wrong* with the 'From ' lines, I can't say for sure :) The problem used to be that the date on the 'From ' line wasn't in the default 'time.ctime()' format, but rather in the format of the date string that was contained in the message itself. -- Thomas Wouters Hi! I'm a .signature virus! copy me into your .signature file to help me spread! From bwarsaw@beopen.com Mon Aug 14 20:39:52 2000 From: bwarsaw@beopen.com (Barry A. Warsaw) Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 15:39:52 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Mailman-Developers] List archives text format not mbox compatible? References: <20000814142209.G15052@ebb.org> Message-ID: <14744.19208.860955.353853@anthem.concentric.net> >>>>> "BMK" == Bradley M Kuhn writes: BMK> It appears that the text versions of the list archives that BMK> are generated by pipermail are not in mbox format Namely, the BMK> "From " line is built in a way that isn't compatible with BMK> mbox-based MUAs. BMK> I had never noticed this before, but it seems like there is BMK> no reason not to make them compatible with mbox. I think the BMK> most useful thing about offering text archives is that you BMK> can grab them and read them into an mbox MUA. BMK> Was the change in the "From " line format intentional, or is BMK> it a bug? if the former, can someone please explain the BMK> thinking behind it? It depends on exactly which files you're talking about. If you mean something like 2000-August.txt that's available from http://www.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/ under the "Downloadable version" link, then I think it /is/ mbox compatible. Or put it this way, both VM under XEmacs and Linux's mail(1) program grok those files just fine. What specifically about the From_ line is bogus for you? -Barry From darrell@grumblesmurf.net Mon Aug 14 20:46:59 2000 From: darrell@grumblesmurf.net (Darrell Fuhriman) Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 12:46:59 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Mailman-Developers] List archives text format not mbox compatible? In-Reply-To: <14744.19208.860955.353853@anthem.concentric.net> Message-ID: > It depends on exactly which files you're talking about. If you mean > something like 2000-August.txt that's available from Which brings up a minor nit of mine. I think that the archive file/directory names should be in the format '2000-08' -- it sorts much more nicely -- though I appreciate that this is unlikely to change before the release. On the other note -- one can fix the previously mentioned problem by applying the right options to 'formail' -- I had to do that when migrating stuff from a lyris list, which doesn't keep the archives in mbox format, either. Darrell From jmackenzie@local.ie Tue Aug 15 00:01:35 2000 From: jmackenzie@local.ie (John MacKenzie) Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 00:01:35 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Installing Qmail Message-ID: <00081500025808.24023@samsara.local.ie> Hi there, I just changed from Sendmail to Qmail, was wondering if I needed to change mailman in anyway, for compatability issues, other than recompiling with the New mail-gid that is? Thanks - John -- John MacKenzie | Unix Systems Admin | e: mailto:jmackenzie@local.ie ___________________________________________________________________ Stay in touch your local area through Local Ireland http://chat.local.ie/chat/index.html ___________________________________________________________________ local ireland | dublin | new york | http://www.local.ie t: +353 1 676 8996 f: +353 1 283 9988 From jmackenzie@local.ie Tue Aug 15 04:00:08 2000 From: jmackenzie@local.ie (John MacKenzie) Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 04:00:08 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Re: Installing Qmail In-Reply-To: <00081500025808.24023@samsara.local.ie> References: <00081500025808.24023@samsara.local.ie> Message-ID: <0008150402490C.24023@samsara.local.ie> Just an update on the situation, I Sent a mail to one of my lists, named donegal-domain, the qmail system accepted it, and the wrapper took it and held it in pending requests. I then went to discard it, but to send a copy to myself (jmackenzie@local.ie) I never recieved this... qmail shows nothing about accepting a mail injection from mailman, and the bounce log is as follows : Aug 15 03:53:02 2000 (27868) Donegal-domain: jmackenzie@local.ie - first Aug 15 03:56:01 2000 (27946) donegal-domain: address jmackenzie@local.ie not a member. Can someone please assist? Thanks - John On Tue, 15 Aug 2000, John MacKenzie wrote: > Hi there, > > I just changed from Sendmail to Qmail, was wondering if I needed to change > mailman in anyway, for compatability issues, other than recompiling with the > New mail-gid that is? > > Thanks > - John > -- John MacKenzie | Unix Systems Admin | e: mailto:jmackenzie@local.ie ___________________________________________________________________ Stay in touch your local area through Local Ireland http://chat.local.ie/chat/index.html ___________________________________________________________________ local ireland | dublin | new york | http://www.local.ie t: +353 1 676 8996 f: +353 1 283 9988 From jmackenzie@local.ie Tue Aug 15 06:42:10 2000 From: jmackenzie@local.ie (John MacKenzie) Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 06:42:10 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Re: Installing Qmail In-Reply-To: <0008150402490C.24023@samsara.local.ie> References: <00081500025808.24023@samsara.local.ie> <0008150402490C.24023@samsara.local.ie> Message-ID: <0008150645080E.24023@samsara.local.ie> And before someone asks, I have Read README.QMAIL , I used the script to make the .qmail files for all the lists, I also added the virtualdomains entry for mailman. However I'm using tcpd, started qmail manualy, could be be a localhost relay issue? I've been working on this for the past 12 hours, still at a loss. Regards - John On Tue, 15 Aug 2000, John MacKenzie wrote: > Just an update on the situation, > > I Sent a mail to one of my lists, named donegal-domain, the qmail system > accepted it, and the wrapper took it and held it in pending requests. > > I then went to discard it, but to send a copy to myself (jmackenzie@local.ie) > I never recieved this... qmail shows nothing about accepting a mail injection > from mailman, and the bounce log is as follows : > > Aug 15 03:53:02 2000 (27868) Donegal-domain: jmackenzie@local.ie - first > Aug 15 03:56:01 2000 (27946) donegal-domain: address jmackenzie@local.ie not a member. > > Can someone please assist? > > Thanks > - John > > > > On Tue, 15 Aug 2000, John MacKenzie wrote: > > Hi there, > > > > I just changed from Sendmail to Qmail, was wondering if I needed to change > > mailman in anyway, for compatability issues, other than recompiling with the > > New mail-gid that is? > > > > Thanks > > - John > > > -- John MacKenzie | Unix Systems Admin | e: mailto:jmackenzie@local.ie ___________________________________________________________________ Stay in touch your local area through Local Ireland http://chat.local.ie/chat/index.html ___________________________________________________________________ local ireland | dublin | new york | http://www.local.ie t: +353 1 676 8996 f: +353 1 283 9988 From chuqui@plaidworks.com Tue Aug 15 07:03:30 2000 From: chuqui@plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach) Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 23:03:30 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Re: Installing Qmail In-Reply-To: <0008150645080E.24023@samsara.local.ie> References: <00081500025808.24023@samsara.local.ie> <0008150402490C.24023@samsara.local.ie> <0008150645080E.24023@samsara.local.ie> Message-ID: At 6:42 AM +0100 8/15/00, John MacKenzie wrote: >And before someone asks, I have Read README.QMAIL , Please dno't post to both mailman-users and mailman-developers. That just adds noise and drives the people you're asking questions crazy. It's either a usage problem (like this one), or a code issue. It's never both. Please don't shotgun questions everywhere, because it only discourages people from answering your questions. chuq -- Chuq Von Rospach - Plaidworks Consulting (mailto:chuqui@plaidworks.com) Apple Mail List Gnome (mailto:chuq@apple.com) And they sit at the bar and put bread in my jar and say 'Man, what are you doing here?'" From webweave@yeah.net Thu Aug 17 09:02:07 2000 From: webweave@yeah.net (sowen) Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 16:02:07 +0800 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] About the UMBRELLA List Message-ID: <008f01c00821$72855ea0$3401a8c0@sowen.gzetang.com> aGksQWxsICAgIA0KICAgIEkgcmVhbGx5IGRvIG5vdCB1bmRlcnN0YW5kIHRoZSBVTUJSRUxMQSBM aXN0LiBXb3VsZCBhbnlvbmUgdGVsbCBtZSB3aGF0IHRoZSBtZWFuIG9mIGl0Pw0KDQpUaGFua3Mh DQpTb3dlbg0K From abingham@lips.utexas.edu Thu Aug 17 15:08:45 2000 From: abingham@lips.utexas.edu (Austin Bingham) Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 09:08:45 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Bad logic in subscribe.py? Message-ID: I've been poking around the mailman code to track down some apparent bugs I've noticed, and I think I've found a problem with subscribe.py. I mentioned the problem I was seeing earlier on mailman-users, but I'll summarize: the html produced by subscribe.py was adding an extra ... around the html I wanted returned. As a result, by was being ignored by the browser which caused all sorts of rendering problems. The problem, it appears, is that subscribe.py uses Document instead of HeadlessDocument for managing it's HTML output. As a result, these "extra" tags get wrapped around my subscribe HTML and stomp on my formatting, etc. The solution that seems reasonable to me is to use doc = HeadlessDocument() in main() of subscribe.py. However, I haven't analyzed the problem as deeply as is probably necessary. Does this sounds right to anyone more knowledgeable about the code as a whole? In any event, there ought to be some way to ask mailman to not put these extra tags around my HTML. Thanks for any input on this! Austin Bingham Laboratory for Intelligent Processes and Systems University of Texas at Austin abingham@lips.utexas.edu From dc@dragonwerks.net Thu Aug 17 14:30:47 2000 From: dc@dragonwerks.net (DanielC) Date: 17 Aug 2000 07:30:47 -0600 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] [Mailman-Users] Flakey main listinfo page Message-ID: <20000817073047.1.20511.qmail@dragonwerks.net> Chuck's starting point panned out, if a host name has wierd capitalization (in my case TMTwatcher01 was the host name) then the virtual host code will miss if the url is entered as http://tmtwatcher01. Since DNS is case insensitive I think its a mailman bug. Sun, 13 Aug 2000 02:22:42 +1000 Could be a strange interaction with the virtual host code, which only displays lists on the listinfo page that have an URL matching that set in the list config. Chuck Wrote DanielC on Fri, Aug 11, 2000 at 03:39:54AM -0600: > > I just installed 2.0beta5 on a Redhat6.2 box with qmail1.03 When I set my > public lists up they didn't show up on the main listinfo page, and I blew > it off as a config error on my part. But the next day when I opened the > page all the public lists showed up as they should even though I hadn't > done anything except open the page in a new browser window, later that day > though after I had made changes to other lists the listinfo page was once > again empty. Any Ideas? > > -- > DanielC > > > ------------------------------------------------------ > Mailman-Users maillist - Mailman-Users@python.org > http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users From webweave@yeah.net Fri Aug 18 03:05:36 2000 From: webweave@yeah.net (sowen) Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 10:05:36 +0800 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] how to backup the old user database Message-ID: <003a01c008b8$cff309b0$3401a8c0@sowen.gzetang.com> aGksQUxMOg0KICAgIElmIEkgd2FudCB0byByZWluc3RhbGwgbWFpbG1hbixob3cgdG8gYmFja3Vw IHRoZSBvbGQgdXNlciBhbmQgbWFpbCBsaXN0IGNvbnRlbnQ/DQogICAgV2hlcmUgYXJlIHRoZSBk YXRhYmFzZSBmaWxlcyBwbGFjZWQ/IEFuZCB3b3VsZCBhbnlvbmUgbGlrZSB0byB0ZWxsIG1lIGhv dyB0byBvcGVuIHRoZSBkYXRhYmFzZSBhbmQgcmVhZCBpdCBpbiBQeXRob24/DQoNCg0KVGhhbmsg eW91IQ0KU293ZW4NCg== From bkuhn@ebb.org Mon Aug 21 09:54:40 2000 From: bkuhn@ebb.org (Bradley M. Kuhn) Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 04:54:40 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] List archives text format not mbox compatible? In-Reply-To: <20000814213252.V14470@xs4all.nl>; from thomas@xs4all.net on Mon, Aug 14, 2000 at 09:32:52PM +0200 References: <20000814142209.G15052@ebb.org> <20000814213252.V14470@xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <20000821045440.A1829@ebb.org> --n8g4imXOkfNTN/H1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thomas Wouters wrote: > That's so for Mailman 1.1, and for old versions of 2.0beta. It's been fix= ed > somewhere between 2.0b3 and 2.0b4, IIRC. At least, if we're talking about > the same thing :) Since you don't elaborate on what's actually *wrong* wi= th > the 'From ' lines, I can't say for sure :) Sorry, what I meant was, that the from lines look like: =46rom person@domain.dom Sat, 01 Jul 2000 14:18:09 -0500 rather than: =46rom person@domain.dom Sun Aug 20 03:06:48 2000 --=20 Bradley M. Kuhn - http://www.ebb.org/bkuhn --n8g4imXOkfNTN/H1 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE5oO5Q53XjJNtBs4cRAnMeAKCSh89dvHaQItv4YAX95+mD5u00PgCeKIG8 0G3baO89iZRnAZC5rWYxIXU= =5ETh -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --n8g4imXOkfNTN/H1-- From bkuhn@ebb.org Mon Aug 21 09:56:34 2000 From: bkuhn@ebb.org (Bradley M. Kuhn) Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 04:56:34 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] List archives text format not mbox compatible? In-Reply-To: ; from darrell@grumblesmurf.net on Mon, Aug 14, 2000 at 12:46:59PM -0700 References: <14744.19208.860955.353853@anthem.concentric.net> Message-ID: <20000821045634.B1829@ebb.org> --dc+cDN39EJAMEtIO Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Darrell Fuhriman wrote: > > It depends on exactly which files you're talking about. If you mean > > something like 2000-August.txt that's available from > > Which brings up a minor nit of mine. I think that the archive > file/directory names should be in the format '2000-08' -- it sorts much > more nicely -- though I appreciate that this is unlikely to change before > the release. I really like that idea. Another idea that I had: I recently had a need to get the entire archive of a mailing list and read it. It would be nice if list maintainers had the option, in the archive, to provide a single compressed mbox file of the entire past of the list. It's a bit easier to download and concatenate the period spool files together. -- Bradley M. Kuhn - http://www.ebb.org/bkuhn --dc+cDN39EJAMEtIO Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE5oO7C53XjJNtBs4cRAjncAJ91sV2tlgeqPxi412V/K9cWEFYjCgCcCqWR IUuWnMGQ7QH3cO9EsAvlM24= =JVrK -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --dc+cDN39EJAMEtIO-- From thomas@xs4all.net Mon Aug 21 11:21:00 2000 From: thomas@xs4all.net (Thomas Wouters) Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 12:21:00 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] List archives text format not mbox compatible? In-Reply-To: <20000821045440.A1829@ebb.org>; from bkuhn@ebb.org on Mon, Aug 21, 2000 at 04:54:40AM -0400 References: <20000814142209.G15052@ebb.org> <20000814213252.V14470@xs4all.nl> <20000821045440.A1829@ebb.org> Message-ID: <20000821122059.J4797@xs4all.nl> On Mon, Aug 21, 2000 at 04:54:40AM -0400, Bradley M. Kuhn wrote: > Thomas Wouters wrote: > > That's so for Mailman 1.1, and for old versions of 2.0beta. It's been fixed > > somewhere between 2.0b3 and 2.0b4, IIRC. At least, if we're talking about > > the same thing :) Since you don't elaborate on what's actually *wrong* with > > the 'From ' lines, I can't say for sure :) > Sorry, what I meant was, that the from lines look like: > From person@domain.dom Sat, 01 Jul 2000 14:18:09 -0500 > rather than: > From person@domain.dom Sun Aug 20 03:06:48 2000 Yes. In Mailmans older than b3 or b4 or so, right ? Or are you seeing this with the latest Mailman beta or the CVS tree, too ? -- Thomas Wouters Hi! I'm a .signature virus! copy me into your .signature file to help me spread! From Nigel.Metheringham@VData.co.uk Mon Aug 21 17:38:26 2000 From: Nigel.Metheringham@VData.co.uk (Nigel Metheringham) Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 17:38:26 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Confirmations of membership Message-ID: I've just been watching messages from someone who is too sophisticated to reply to the confirm message, but not sophisticated enough to realise that their HTML loving MUA trashes the confirm response by wrapping in layers of MIME :-) Do we want to remove this part of the confirm message to alleviate this:- > - or include the following line - and only the following line - in the > message body: > confirm 409078 or is there a case for making the confirm web enabled too, so the confirm message looks something like:- - or follow this URL http://www.exim.org/mailman/confirm/list-name/1234567890 and have that URL do the appropriate magic? [We do almost exactly this for the monthly reminders, so it seems OK] Nigel. -- [ - Opinions expressed are personal and may not be shared by VData - ] [ Nigel Metheringham Nigel.Metheringham@VData.co.uk ] [ Phone: +44 1423 850000 Fax +44 1423 858866 ] From ckolar@admin.aurora.edu Mon Aug 21 18:33:44 2000 From: ckolar@admin.aurora.edu (Christopher Kolar) Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 12:33:44 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Confirmations of membership In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20000821123305.03f62c30@admin.aurora.edu> At 11:38 AM 8/21/2000, you wrote: >I've just been watching messages from someone who is too sophisticated >to reply to the confirm message, but not sophisticated enough to >realise that their HTML loving MUA trashes the confirm response by >wrapping in layers of MIME :-) > >[....] >- or follow this URL > http://www.exim.org/mailman/confirm/list-name/1234567890 The URL option would be really great. --chris From Nigel.Metheringham@VData.co.uk Wed Aug 23 17:10:31 2000 From: Nigel.Metheringham@VData.co.uk (Nigel Metheringham) Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 17:10:31 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] RFC2369 - Mailing list management stuff Message-ID: Anyone considered RFC2369 (with the catchy title of "The Use of URLs as Meta-Syntax for Core Mail List Commands and their Transport through Message Header Fields") and whether Mailman should support it. In brief this is a batch of headers for list mail which define URLs to do list management. Theoretically an MUA should use these to give a user an interface to hack a list - ie sub/unsub get info on archives etc. Currently this is probably in a chicken and egg situation - MLMs don't support it so MUAs don't either... Exmh does support it (first place I'd seen mention of it). It doesn't seem like that great a system to me :-) For info see ftp://ftp.isi.edu/in-notes/rfc2369.txt http://www.beedub.com/exmh/guide.html#MAILING Nigel. -- [ - Opinions expressed are personal and may not be shared by VData - ] [ Nigel Metheringham Nigel.Metheringham@VData.co.uk ] [ Phone: +44 1423 850000 Fax +44 1423 858866 ] From claw@nuron.com Wed Aug 23 23:22:42 2000 From: claw@nuron.com (J C Lawrence) Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 15:22:42 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] RFC2369 - Mailing list management stuff In-Reply-To: Message from Nigel Metheringham of "Wed, 23 Aug 2000 17:10:31 BST." References: Message-ID: <14059.967069362@nuron.com> On Wed, 23 Aug 2000 17:10:31 +0100 Nigel Metheringham wrote: > Anyone considered RFC2369 (with the catchy title of "The Use of > URLs as Meta-Syntax for Core Mail List Commands and their > Transport through Message Header Fields") and whether Mailman > should support it. I'd love to see them. I supported RFC2369 headers on the list server I ran before Mailman and several users reponded that they found the extra headers useful. Note that as I have a rather technically astute and abservant list base, this is a heavily biased response. -- J C Lawrence Home: claw@kanga.nu ---------(*) Work: claw@nuron.com http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/ Keys etc: finger claw@kanga.nu --=| A man is as sane as he is dangerous to his environment |=-- From bwarsaw@beopen.com Thu Aug 24 00:03:11 2000 From: bwarsaw@beopen.com (Barry A. Warsaw) Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 19:03:11 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Hack to support moderated newsgroups Message-ID: <14756.22575.405461.866343@anthem.concentric.net> Hi folks, I need to get comp.lang.python.announce -- a moderated newsgroup -- back online. So I've worked up a hack and uploaded it to SourceForge as patch # 101270. This allows the list admins to serve as newsgroup moderators. Here's the basic approach: Besides your normal news<->mail gateway list, you also create a list just for the moderators. This second list will have no members. It will be a one-way list, gatwaying only from mail->news and it will be used for approval purposes only. You set your moderator address to the posting address for the list. The patch hacks GatewayManager.py to add a new config variable, which basically toggles whether the gated newsgroup is moderated or not. If so, the Hold.py module will hold every message posted to the list (if it's not held via some other criteria, it'll get held with a ModeratedNewsgroup exception). Now the admins can use the admindb page to approve or discard the messages as normal. ToUsenet.py has been hacked to add an Approved: message to any that have been explicitly approved. That's the minimal needed to tell the netnews software that the message should get posted. This stuff is a hack, which is why I'm not folding it into the distro (well, that and Mailman 2.0 is overdue -- I've been concentrating on getting Python 2.0 ready for release). I'd be interested in any feedback you might have. I've done some preliminary testing with c.l.py.a and I think this'll work. -Barry From bbum@codefab.com Thu Aug 24 19:37:11 2000 From: bbum@codefab.com (Bill Bumgarner) Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 14:37:11 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Mailman w/WebDav integration Message-ID: <200008241837.e7OIbAQ03976@bjork.codefab.com> Latest cut of the source is at: http://www.codefab.com/mailman-dav/ To put it bluntly, it works great. We have had it in production for over two months now and it has proven to be excellent. In particular, our current system: - decodes all incoming attachments - files attachments to a remote web server via the WebDAV protocol [including using Dav properties to describe the attachment; size, encoding, extra information] - rewrites the message such that it contains URLs to the attachments where the original attachment was - archives the rewritten message [again, via Dav] - sends a copy of the message to a [proprietary] process via HTTP - provides a raw HTTP based interface for programmatically administrating an individual mailing list's configuration - provides means by which a user can be given an URL to download an attachment where that URL automatically becomes invalid after a certain amount of time - provides means by which any attachment in the archive can be automatically re-encoded, re-attached to a message and sent to any user as a standard email w/attachment And it probably does some other stuff I can't remember. :-) In any case, the above is based against a 1.2b2 of Mailman-- I have been tracking changes to the repository, but recently fell behind. I plan on updating to b4 (or later) relatively soon. If you use this stuff, have questions, or whatever-- PLEASE let me know... I will NOT be able to continue donating my time to the continuation of this stuff without some interest from the community [and I will not be offended if the community decides it is utterly useless... I don't believe that is the case]. thanks! b.bum From darrell@grumblesmurf.net Fri Aug 25 06:52:41 2000 From: darrell@grumblesmurf.net (Darrell Fuhriman) Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 22:52:41 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Mailman-Developers] uploaded patch for RFC 2368 headers. Message-ID: It seems to be quite reasonable feature, and was also quite easy to add. :) Comments or improvements suggested. Patch ID is 101290 --- http://sourceforge.net/patch/?func=detailpatch&patch_id=101290&group_id=103 These headers are not currently configurable, but the defaults are quite reasonable. Please note that this patch also makes a slight change to the way reply-to is handled. If the message already has a reply-to, the code will not add one. --- Darrell From chuqui@plaidworks.com Fri Aug 25 07:02:59 2000 From: chuqui@plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach) Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 23:02:59 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] uploaded patch for RFC 2368 headers. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: At 10:52 PM -0700 8/24/00, Darrell Fuhriman wrote: >It seems to be quite reasonable feature, and was also quite easy to add. kewl! looks good at first glance! -- Chuq Von Rospach - Plaidworks Consulting (mailto:chuqui@plaidworks.com) Apple Mail List Gnome (mailto:chuq@apple.com) And they sit at the bar and put bread in my jar and say 'Man, what are you doing here?'" From dojai@mail.ufv.br Fri Aug 25 12:56:51 2000 From: dojai@mail.ufv.br (dojai@mail.ufv.br) Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 08:56:51 -0300 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] local TXT/HTML files Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20000825085651.007c92e0@mail.ufv.br> Good Day to all, I'm new to mailman (a month) it's very interesting and I'm studing Python= now to be able to work better with the software. One thing that I have already done is made a soft link to all the= templates/*txt and *.html files in a directory that I called= local/SiteTemplates and for each list I made a local/ directory= with soft links to local/SiteTemplates. Doing this has enabled me to make a traduction of the most common txt= files. As time goes by people who use computers know less english, not even= some list administratators know english! I have not made all the traductions but now I can have local traductions= for all the message files and I'm able to have especific instructions for= each list. Of course my gratest problem has been that I have to modify the python files= to point to ../local// there's chicken/egg problem in bin/newlist (if there's no list how to point= to local/ is that I create the local/ and the soft= links if they don't exist so newlist will send= local/SiteTemplates/newlist.txt because the soft link created points there= and if I have already made a special newlist.txt for that list it must be= already there. Well, my suggestion is to implement something like this because the= necessaty to have local txt/html files is world-wide, and to implement a= local ~mailman/local directory that could be preserved (as mm_cfg.py)= between installations. Thanks to all for your attention of forgive me for my limited english. Eduardo J. Quir=F3s B. (dojai@mail.ufv.br) "It's easier to ask for forgiveness than it is to get permission." (Rear Admiral Grace Murray Hopper) From Dan.Mick@west.sun.com Fri Aug 25 20:31:15 2000 From: Dan.Mick@west.sun.com (Dan Mick) Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 12:31:15 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] local TXT/HTML files References: <3.0.5.32.20000825085651.007c92e0@mail.ufv.br> Message-ID: <39A6C983.1EBADEAE@west.sun.com> I'm not certain if this solves your problem or not, but patch 100953 on Sourceforge allows all the txt/html files to be list-specific (by first searching in the list's directory, then falling back to the templates directory). So far this hasn't been integrated into the mainline source, but if you tried it and reported success, that might help it to be included. Let me know if you have any problems with it. dojai@mail.ufv.br wrote: > > Good Day to all, > > I'm new to mailman (a month) it's very interesting and I'm studing Python now to be able to work better with the software. > One thing that I have already done is made a soft link to all the templates/*txt and *.html files in a directory that I called local/SiteTemplates and for each list I made a local/ directory with soft links to local/SiteTemplates. > Doing this has enabled me to make a traduction of the most common txt files. As time goes by people who use computers know less english, not even some list administratators know english! > > I have not made all the traductions but now I can have local traductions for all the message files and I'm able to have especific instructions for each list. > > Of course my gratest problem has been that I have to modify the python files to point to ../local// > > there's chicken/egg problem in bin/newlist (if there's no list how to point to local/ is that I create the local/ and the soft links if they don't exist so newlist will send local/SiteTemplates/newlist.txt because the soft link created points there and if I have already made a special newlist.txt for that list it must be already there. > > Well, my suggestion is to implement something like this because the necessaty to have local txt/html files is world-wide, and to implement a local ~mailman/local directory that could be preserved (as mm_cfg.py) between installations. > > Thanks to all for your attention of forgive me for my limited english. > > Eduardo J. Quirуs B. (dojai@mail.ufv.br) > > "It's easier to ask for forgiveness > than it is to get permission." > (Rear Admiral Grace Murray Hopper) > > _______________________________________________ > Mailman-Developers mailing list > Mailman-Developers@python.org > http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers From claw@nuron.com Sat Aug 26 03:00:18 2000 From: claw@nuron.com (J C Lawrence) Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 19:00:18 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] uploaded patch for RFC 2368 headers. In-Reply-To: Message from Darrell Fuhriman of "Thu, 24 Aug 2000 22:52:41 PDT." References: Message-ID: <7943.967255218@nuron.com> On Thu, 24 Aug 2000 22:52:41 -0700 (PDT) Darrell Fuhriman wrote: > Please note that this patch also makes a slight change to the way > reply-to is handled. If the message already has a reply-to, the > code will not add one. That is actually a fairly significant change for a list that has Reply-To set in that it changes functionality that is already present. One can easily argue that allowing the poster to override a list's defined Reply-To is a Good Thing, as well as that the list owner's ability to mandate a Reply-To for list postings is also a Good Thing. I suggest (breathlessly given the current number of config options) that this be configurable among the following choices: 1) Reply-To is added, rewriting any already present Reply-To to X-Reply-To. (This is what Mailman should do now) 2) Reply-To is added only if one is not already there. (your default) 3) Reply-To is added with any previous Reply-To moved into From: with prior From: moved to X-From:. (I don't like this, but its orthognal) -- J C Lawrence Home: claw@kanga.nu ---------(*) Work: claw@nuron.com http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/ Keys etc: finger claw@kanga.nu --=| A man is as sane as he is dangerous to his environment |=-- From claw@nuron.com Sat Aug 26 03:01:35 2000 From: claw@nuron.com (J C Lawrence) Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 19:01:35 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] uploaded patch for RFC 2368 headers. In-Reply-To: Message from Chuq Von Rospach of "Thu, 24 Aug 2000 23:02:59 PDT." References: Message-ID: <7955.967255295@nuron.com> On Thu, 24 Aug 2000 23:02:59 -0700 Chuq Von Rospach wrote: > At 10:52 PM -0700 8/24/00, Darrell Fuhriman wrote: >> It seems to be quite reasonable feature, and was also quite easy >> to add. > kewl! looks good at first glance! Given a Reply-To list his Reply-To handling is not so cool for those users who their MUAs set to add a Reply-To to every message they write (less common than it was, but still not uncommon). -- J C Lawrence Home: claw@kanga.nu ---------(*) Work: claw@nuron.com http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/ Keys etc: finger claw@kanga.nu --=| A man is as sane as he is dangerous to his environment |=-- From tkikuchi@is.kochi-u.ac.jp Sun Aug 27 09:33:11 2000 From: tkikuchi@is.kochi-u.ac.jp (Tokio Kikuchi) Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2000 17:33:11 +0900 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] patch to add sequential number in subject Message-ID: <39A8D247.B82E3288@is.kochi-u.ac.jp> Hi, Mailman-Developers, I was investigating if Mailman can fit to Japanese Language and communities. Besides the translation which I want to write elsewhere (i18n?), a custom in Japan is to put a sequential number in the subject line, ie., [List-Name 123] instead of just [List-Name]. So, I tried to put this feature in the software and seems like to get success easily because I ASSUMED mlist.post_id holds the required sequential number. So, I want to ask 'Am I right?' I have uploaded the patch in http://sourceforge.net/patch/?func=detailpatch&patch_id=101319&group_id=103 I would be thankful if any one can review it and make some comments. Tokio Kikuchi, JAPAN From Dan.Mick@west.sun.com Mon Aug 28 03:12:33 2000 From: Dan.Mick@west.sun.com (Dan Mick) Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2000 19:12:33 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] patch to add sequential number in subject References: <39A8D247.B82E3288@is.kochi-u.ac.jp> Message-ID: <39A9CA91.99083F4D@west.sun.com> Tokio Kikuchi wrote: > So, I tried to put this feature in the software and seems > like to get success easily because I ASSUMED mlist.post_id > holds the required sequential number. > > So, I want to ask 'Am I right?' Sure looks that way to me. From marc_news@valinux.com Tue Aug 29 02:42:50 2000 From: marc_news@valinux.com (Marc MERLIN) Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 18:42:50 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Re: [Mailman-Users] how to set clobber_date = 1 by default? In-Reply-To: <200008290110.SAA11755@utopia.west.sun.com>; from Dan.Mick@west.sun.com on Mon, Aug 28, 2000 at 06:11:12PM -0700 References: <200008290110.SAA11755@utopia.west.sun.com> Message-ID: <20000828184250.W4317@marc.merlins.org> On Mon, Aug 28, 2000 at 06:11:12PM -0700, Dan Mick wrote: > > Did I miss anything or is that option absent? > > Right; in fact Archiver.py says: > > # Not configurable > self.clobber_date = 0 I changed this to 1, which will work until I upgrade mailman :-) > > Can we please have mm 2.0 not trust the MUA for date at archiving time by > > default when lists are created? > > Speaking solely for myself, I'd rather not, but I can see room for > debate. I'm just tired of people creating random web pages because their date is messed up. It really looks silly. Besides, you typically get messages within minutes of them being sent, so the local date should be really close to the actual sent date. > At least it would be nice to have it in mm_cfg.py. Yep :-) > One can always change Archiver.py for one's installation, I suppose. Yeah, works for now. Of course, the next upgrade will blow it away... Thanks, Marc -- Microsoft is to software what McDonalds is to gourmet cooking Home page: http://marc.merlins.org/ (friendly to non IE browsers) Finger marc_f@merlins.org for PGP key and other contact information From Dan Mick Tue Aug 29 02:45:38 2000 From: Dan Mick (Dan Mick) Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 18:45:38 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Re: [Mailman-Users] how to set clobber_date = 1 by default? Message-ID: <200008290144.SAA12600@utopia.west.sun.com> > > One can always change Archiver.py for one's installation, I suppose. > > Yeah, works for now. Of course, the next upgrade will blow it away... A useful hint: if you make a CVS tree, then you can change your local file and 99% of the time just forget about it. I finally got religion and did this, and it turns out that, if Barry changes a file I've changed, most of the time CVS merges it correctly and automatically. For a change like this, it will certainly be correct. That has the other advantage of being on the bleeding edge if you want to (you can always check out the Last Tarball Version if you want using symbolic tags) From dgc@uchicago.edu Tue Aug 29 04:39:47 2000 From: dgc@uchicago.edu (David Champion) Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 22:39:47 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Error in scripts/driver? Message-ID: <20000828223947.A10991@smack.uchicago.edu> Looks like line 121 of scripts/driver needs to say from Mailman.Version import VERSION instead of from Mailman.mm_cfg import VERSION Otherwise, I get ImportError during the traceback report. -- -D. dgc@uchicago.edu NSIT University of Chicago From Dan Mick Tue Aug 29 04:47:13 2000 From: Dan Mick (Dan Mick) Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 20:47:13 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Error in scripts/driver? Message-ID: <200008290346.UAA14923@utopia.west.sun.com> Actually, from comments in Defaults.py.in, it looks like that should have a from Mailman.Version import VERSION in it, so that importing Defaults or mm_cfg should get it...but I don't know how to use cvs log well enough to find out when the import was dropped from Defaults.py.in but it does look like a bug all right. > Looks like line 121 of scripts/driver needs to say > from Mailman.Version import VERSION > instead of > from Mailman.mm_cfg import VERSION > > Otherwise, I get ImportError during the traceback report. From dgc@uchicago.edu Tue Aug 29 04:58:21 2000 From: dgc@uchicago.edu (David Champion) Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 22:58:21 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Re: Error in scripts/driver? In-Reply-To: <200008290346.UAA14923@utopia.west.sun.com>; from Dan.Mick@West.Sun.COM on Mon, Aug 28, 2000 at 08:47:13PM -0700 References: <200008290346.UAA14923@utopia.west.sun.com> Message-ID: <20000828225821.E4729@smack.uchicago.edu> On 2000.08.28, in <200008290346.UAA14923@utopia.west.sun.com>, "Dan Mick" wrote: > Actually, from comments in Defaults.py.in, it looks like that should > have a from Mailman.Version import VERSION in it, so that importing > Defaults or mm_cfg should get it...but I don't know how to use > cvs log well enough to find out when the import was dropped from > Defaults.py.in > > but it does look like a bug all right. I know enough python to club myself in the head, but I think I hit this one because I had a bug (since resolved) in Defaults.py.[1] If Defaults.py or mm_cfg.py have a traceback error, this looks like it will come up. By importing VERSION explicitly as below, you at least can get the trace informationon the _original_ problem. If it's inherited from Defaults.py, then you still get this problem. > > Looks like line 121 of scripts/driver needs to say > > from Mailman.Version import VERSION > > instead of > > from Mailman.mm_cfg import VERSION > > > > Otherwise, I get ImportError during the traceback report. ---- [1] If you're curious, I modify Defaults.py to have a separate data area from the mailman installation directory. It's an article of faith to me that software directories should be mountable as read-only, so that any mutable data should be in another path. It's also dogma that symlinking your way out of that is non-ideal. -- -D. dgc@uchicago.edu NSIT University of Chicago From bwarsaw@beopen.com Tue Aug 29 05:27:10 2000 From: bwarsaw@beopen.com (Barry A. Warsaw) Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 00:27:10 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Re: Error in scripts/driver? References: <200008290346.UAA14923@utopia.west.sun.com> <20000828225821.E4729@smack.uchicago.edu> Message-ID: <14763.15262.699242.181743@anthem.concentric.net> Okay, thanks. If possibly, please submit a SourceForge bug report on this so it doesn't get lost in my inbox. Just want to add a note about why I've been so quiet on this list lately. You hardcore Pythoneers know that Python 2.0beta1 is slated for release on 5-Sep-2000, so I've been spending all my time on Python issues. The Python 2.0beta -> Python 2.0 final cycle is very short, so, while I hope to find time to attack outstanding Mailman problems in that timeframe, don't be surprised if I'm jammed up until after Python 2.0 final is released. We've got a mostly congealed deadline of 6-Oct-2000 for that and afterward, I'll be spending most of my time finishing up Mailman 2.0, and hopefully addressing the outstanding design issues for Mailman-the-way-it-should-be. it's-no-fun-trying-to-get-two-2.0-releases-out-at-once-ly y'rs, -Barry From brett@iclick.com Wed Aug 30 17:17:16 2000 From: brett@iclick.com (Brett Dikeman) Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 12:17:16 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] listmembers being "(ignored)", lockfile problems, 2.0b5 Message-ID: Greetings. I realize this is the developer list, so I'll explain why I'm posting here and not there. I already posted there. I also searched through my archives. I couldn't search through the list archives because the search engine on python.org appears to be broken(and yes, I followed the instructions, choosing only SIG archives.) I found a bunch of posts related to my problems, but not much in the way of resolutions. So, I emailed the list with my particular flavor of the problem, and I have not received an answer back yet. My general impression is that the mailman-users list is -very- helpful for well-known, solved issues. In one case, I received a helpful reply back within minutes when I sent a message out at 4am EST. However, for anything new, the users list is pretty much not helpful, so I'm coming here. My hope is that this information will also help with developemnt of b6. The setup we're running is Solaris, with python 1.5.2 compiled myself. The list was working great, until people started loosing mail delivey. I thought the auto-bounce handler was removing people, but they're still listed as subscribed, and I never received a message from the bounce handler saying they would be removed. Now, what I'm seeing in the logs: in logs/smtp-failure: smtp-failure:Aug 30 11:16:15 2000 (122) -1 (ignore) (many, many times) This user is in fact not getting email from either of the two lists he belongs to. The number in ()'s changes, though not with every entry in the logs. and, in logs/post, I see constant entries about: Aug 30 04:53:08 2000 (23571) post to from -request@, size=28501, 177 failures (always the same number of failures and size; seems to be some sort of unrelated mail loop of some kind.) and there are posts that go through: Aug 30 04:44:42 2000 (23411) post to from , size=528, success Qrunner seems to be working: Aug 30 02:55:04 2000 (22304) qrunner begining Aug 30 02:55:09 2000 (22304) qrunner ended (this is repeated every time qrunner is launched, which is wasteful in terms of space since it runs once a minute; I've got 56k of text for less than 12 hours of running) Now, this mystery "177 failures" message shows up again: Aug 30 06:50:10 2000 (25068) All recipients refused: please run connect() first Aug 30 06:50:10 2000 (25068) smtp for 177 recips, completed in 2.620 seconds In logs/bounce, I'm not sure I understand the meanings: Aug 29 23:13:31 2000 (18077) : - 27 more allowed over 426977 secs then there will be: Aug 29 23:13:33 2000 (18077) : - 0 more allowed over 395006 secs The non-delivery problem affects digest and non-digest users. Archives are working fine. One list is 1,500 people; 500 normal, 1000 digest users; the other is about 100 people, mostly non-digest. We're using sendmail, and I have the threaded delivery turned on due to the large number of slow/bad mail servers(and experience has shown that splitting them up into chunks results in a dramatic improvement in delivery times.) Thanks all for any help/tips. I wouldn't mind applying some patches that have been introduced since 2.0b5 that will fix this stuff, if they're available. Brett From claw@nuron.com Wed Aug 30 23:37:00 2000 From: claw@nuron.com (J C Lawrence) Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 15:37:00 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Re: [Mailman-Users] listmembers being "(ignored)", lockfile problems, 2.0b5 In-Reply-To: Message from Brett Dikeman of "Wed, 30 Aug 2000 16:44:05 EDT." References: Message-ID: <32640.967675020@nuron.com> On Wed, 30 Aug 2000 16:44:05 -0400 Brett Dikeman wrote: > Greetings. This is a edited version of a post I sent to the > developers this morning. No response, so I can only assume no one > cares to respond. At least have the good grace to wait a day or two. Not all of us read this list that quickly -- lately for instance I tend to read it only every couple days. I know others are in a similar circumstance and Barry has recently stated that he's buried in the Python 2.0 release and does not have much time to spend on the Mailman lists until that's done. > in logs/smtp-failure: What do your MTA's logs say? -- J C Lawrence Home: claw@kanga.nu ---------(*) Work: claw@nuron.com http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/ Keys etc: finger claw@kanga.nu --=| A man is as sane as he is dangerous to his environment |=-- From brett@pdikeman.ne.mediaone.net Thu Aug 31 00:15:14 2000 From: brett@pdikeman.ne.mediaone.net (Brett Dikeman) Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 19:15:14 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Re: listmembers being "(ignored)", lockfile problems, 2.0b5 Message-ID: Sorry folks, I realized I never sent this to developers list, i owe you guys the same apology. <<<< At 1:48 PM -0700 8/30/00, Dan Mick wrote: > > This is a edited version of a post I sent to the developers this >> morning. No response, so I can only assume no one cares to respond. > >I don't know about everyone else, but I'm just now reading this >message. Don't expect paid-support-level service for a free software >product... Sorry Dan(and listers.) Didn't mean to give that impression. I've been under a lot of stress because I've got a lot(several hundred) unhappy campers who are all treating -me- like I'm paid support staff for our list(which is a list run by volunteers for Audi enthusiasts and owners, end shameless plug :-) So, it's hit a little close to home that I accidentally came off the same way. Part of my attitude was that I've emailed the developer list(and this list) before with no response whatsoever, not even a peep, whereas I usually get very quick(and good) responses from this list(actually, Dan, I just realized...you were the fellow who responded back to me within minutes around 4am a week or two back when I was in a similar stressed out situation :-) >>>> -- ---- Brett Dikeman Systems Engineer CFN(formerly iClick, Inc) 914-872-8043 120 Bloomingdale Rd. 914-872-8100(fax) White Plains, NY 10605 http://www.iclick.com PGP Fingerprint: 06C2 5D5B D2B4 7626 BB24 2BBC 9E4A C8B3 PGP Key location: http://pdikeman.ne.mediaone.net/pgp/brett.pgp From dojai@mail.ufv.br Thu Aug 31 01:43:11 2000 From: dojai@mail.ufv.br (dojai@mail.ufv.br) Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 21:43:11 -0300 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] sugestion: http-digest In-Reply-To: <20000818142433.6ABA91D109@dinsdale.python.org> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20000830214311.007dea10@mail.ufv.br> This may seem a stupid sugestion, but since almost all lists have an= archive: I was thinking why instead of receiving the traffic from the list= as a digest (my case) why can't there be an option (other than text and= mime) for just receiving an email with the URLs for each entry of the= traffic of the day. Advantages: 1- would "send" each email on demand 2- I wouldn't receive big emails which I tend to trash instead of saving Disavantages: 1- greater http traffic 2- if I wanted to read the email a few days latter (not anymore in my cache)= it would be a new request for the web page Eduardo J. Quir=F3s B. (dojai@mail.ufv.br) "It's easier to ask for forgiveness than it is to get permission." (Rear Admiral Grace Murray Hopper) From chuqui@plaidworks.com Thu Aug 31 04:13:47 2000 From: chuqui@plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach) Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 20:13:47 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] sugestion: http-digest In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20000830214311.007dea10@mail.ufv.br> References: <3.0.5.32.20000830214311.007dea10@mail.ufv.br> Message-ID: At 9:43 PM -0300 8/30/00, dojai@mail.ufv.br wrote: >This may seem a stupid sugestion, but since almost all lists have an >archive: I was thinking why instead of receiving the traffic from >the list as a digest (my case) why can't there be an option (other >than text and mime) for just receiving an email with the URLs for >each entry of the traffic of the day. It's be a great idea, but it requires that the web archives be fully integrated into mailman, and they aren't. You need some way to store stuff for web access, and you need a way to be able to refer to those URLs from mailman when it generates the digest. Right now, none of that logic exists -- the web archives mailman ships with are grafted onto the side, and the two speak only though a one-way interface. It's a lot of work, and there's really no way to fake it, unfortunately. -- Chuq Von Rospach - Plaidworks Consulting (mailto:chuqui@plaidworks.com) Apple Mail List Gnome (mailto:chuq@apple.com) And they sit at the bar and put bread in my jar and say 'Man, what are you doing here?'" From brett@iclick.com Thu Aug 31 08:32:18 2000 From: brett@iclick.com (Brett Dikeman) Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 03:32:18 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Re: [Mailman-Users] listmembers being "(ignored)", lockfile problems, 2.0b5 In-Reply-To: <32640.967675020@nuron.com> References: <32640.967675020@nuron.com> Message-ID: Thanks to all who replied. The problem was in fact the SMTP agent. We have, on this particular host, a "messy" mail server setup; actual inbound SMTP is handled by something called Trend Interscan(which actually works really well, shameless plug for them*.) Trend then does Some Magic(mainly, decompresses/decodes any attachments, checks for viruses, that sort of thing) and hands off messages to sendmail(or, say, postfix; you can set the command Trend uses, or give it a hostname/port, etc.) Trend apparently got very upset when I removed some older definitions files(or I accidentally deleted something else it needed) and was doing strange things, like opening the connection but not responding, or closing it immediately, etc. I mucked around with it unsuccessfully for a few hours, gave up, and just fired up plain old sendmail into daemon mode and left trend off. Worked great; we're not protected against a virus getting sent to the list at the moment, but at least things will work until I straighten out the mess with Trend support in the morning.) qrunner did its job and shortly thereafter I received email from a bunch of users saying they now had a digest in their mailbox. Still not sure that everyone is working yet; have to check up with those who reported problems and see if they're 'alive' again. No more strange log entries, except for some business about quattro-admin sending mail to the list, and a lot of messages to 1 recipient, which seemed like mailman zapping bounce messages to me, and naturally reporting it in the SMTP logs. If problems crop up, you know I'll be back :-) Brett *this thing saved our butts at work so many times it isn't funny. I strongly recommend antivirus solutions for lists and companies. Where I work, it's a literal challenge to find a floppy since they're practically never used, which means most infections come in over email. On our list, it's caught at least 20 viruses in a few months. -- ---- Brett Dikeman Systems Engineer CFN(formerly iClick, Inc) 914-872-8043 120 Bloomingdale Rd. 914-872-8100(fax) White Plains, NY 10605 http://www.iclick.com PGP Fingerprint: 06C2 5D5B D2B4 7626 BB24 2BBC 9E4A C8B3 PGP Key location: http://pdikeman.ne.mediaone.net/pgp/brett.pgp From brett@iclick.com Thu Aug 31 20:31:54 2000 From: brett@iclick.com (Brett Dikeman) Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 15:31:54 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] trimming extra headers; footer info in digests Message-ID: So, after our switch off majordomo, I've received feedback from users. First, digest users complained that a lot of extra headers were making it tough to see the separation between messages. I also personally noticed that a -lot- of bandwidth is wasted by not stripping the footer of each message from the digest version(so the digest ends up with 20+ copies of the list's footer, with the list name and all.) Our list ballooned in bandwidth requirements when we went to mailman, and we're limited to an ISDN line. Alternatives like handing mail off to another server for expansion+delivery are not options at the moment; neither is a faster line(DSL is not available yet in the area where the server is.) I'd also like to know if there is a way to strip a lot of unnecessary headers, to save bandwidth and to make posts easier to read. Mainly, I don't see why we need listers(and especially digest users) to get much more than from, subject, to/cc, date, and reply-to if it's defined by the sender. Now, granted, there are strange setups, and it probably isn't compliant with some RFC thus-and-such to just hose headers, so it could be a non-default feature. However, I think that stripping each message of the mailman-addred footer -before- it is put in the digest would be great(just as how this is done with Pipermail archiving.) I would settle for this alone... Make sense? I've considered some kind of pre-processor program/script that takes a message and does stuff like: -remove unneeded headers -remove MIME/attachments -remove HMTL I'd guess that it's probably been done before, but a quick(and I do mean quick) search did not find anything. Brett PS:I should mention that people commented to me that they like the options/preferences, the archives, and -- ---- Brett Dikeman Systems Engineer CFN(formerly iClick, Inc) 914-872-8043 120 Bloomingdale Rd. 914-872-8100(fax) White Plains, NY 10605 http://www.iclick.com PGP Fingerprint: 06C2 5D5B D2B4 7626 BB24 2BBC 9E4A C8B3 PGP Key location: http://pdikeman.ne.mediaone.net/pgp/brett.pgp From chuqui@plaidworks.com Thu Aug 31 20:42:24 2000 From: chuqui@plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach) Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 12:42:24 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] trimming extra headers; footer info in digests In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: At 3:31 PM -0400 8/31/00, Brett Dikeman wrote: >-remove MIME/attachments >-remove HMTL http://scifi.squawk.com/demime.html is what I use. -- Chuq Von Rospach - Plaidworks Consulting (mailto:chuqui@plaidworks.com) Apple Mail List Gnome (mailto:chuq@apple.com) And they sit at the bar and put bread in my jar and say 'Man, what are you doing here?'" From claw@nuron.com Thu Aug 31 20:51:58 2000 From: claw@nuron.com (J C Lawrence) Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 12:51:58 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] sugestion: http-digest In-Reply-To: Message from dojai@mail.ufv.br of "Wed, 30 Aug 2000 21:43:11 -0300." <3.0.5.32.20000830214311.007dea10@mail.ufv.br> References: <3.0.5.32.20000830214311.007dea10@mail.ufv.br> Message-ID: <14058.967751518@nuron.com> On Wed, 30 Aug 2000 21:43:11 -0300 dojai wrote: > This may seem a stupid sugestion, but since almost all lists have > an archive: I was thinking why instead of receiving the traffic > from the list as a digest (my case) why can't there be an option > (other than text and mime) for just receiving an email with the > URLs for each entry of the traffic of the day. Advantages: 1- > would "send" each email on demand 2- I wouldn't receive big emails > which I tend to trash instead of saving ObNote: This really breaks when you use external archivers (as I do). This doesn't mean its a good idea -- just that there's a significant caveat. -- J C Lawrence Home: claw@kanga.nu ---------(*) Work: claw@nuron.com http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/ Keys etc: finger claw@kanga.nu --=| A man is as sane as he is dangerous to his environment |=-- From biz@6x6.net Sun Aug 27 04:15:13 2000 From: biz@6x6.net (Please Read IT Carefully!) Date: 27 Aug 2000 06:15:13 +0300 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] ATTENTION! Well-Paid Job in the Internet! Message-ID: ATTENTION! The Well-Paid Job in the Internet!
We wish You a pleasant and successful day!
 
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RISE ON THE WAY TO THE FINANCIAL INDEPENDENCE AND FREEDOM!!!
Welcome to the 6X6!
 
It is difficult to believe but nevertheless it is like that! People get richer and richer! Some of them can't recover from the shock which had come together with a heap of crust banknotes even some months later. While the others deliberate and doubt, people that believed in Business System 6X6 bathe now in money!...
 
In view of prompt rates of development of the Internet and electronic commerce the number of users of the "World Wide Web" grows with the great speed. There are more than 15,000 new people who join the Internet daily...
 

Copyright © 2000 6x6 MLM Corporation. All rights reserved.
Ladies and Gentlemen!
 
 


PLEASE READ THOUGHTFULLY AND ATTENTIVELY, TRYING NOT TO DISTRACT YOUR ATTENTION WITH EXTERNAL NOISES AND IRRITANTS, AND YOU'LL UNDERSTAND WHAT WILL MAKE YOU RATHER RICH AND FREE PEOPLE!!!
 

 


It is difficult to believe but nevertheless it is like that! People get richer and richer! Some of them can't recover from the shock which had come together with a heap of crust banknotes even some months later. While the others deliberate and doubt, people that believed in Business System 6X6 bathe now in money! In a literal sense! Have You ever seen how the heap of the $5 bills under which the adult person entirelly finds room looks like?! It is 100 thousand dollars!!! Can You imagine how the heap of $1,000,000 which is earned by each third participant of the superprogram 6X6 looks like?! And what is the feeling when You, not getting troubled with work, start to receive envelopes with six dollars already on the second week and further the profit is much more! And eventually some months later You don't know how to get rid of the money! You even get a bit scary of this avalanches of the money!!!
 

ALL THAT IT WILL NECESSARY TO DO - TO SEND THE ADVERTISING LETTERS VIA E-MAIL AND FROM TIME TO TIME TO CHECK YOUR MAILBOX OR TO GO TO THE BANK! YOU SHOULDN'T EVEN STRAIN THE BRAIN - THE SUPER COMPUTER BUSINESS SYSTEM 6X6 WILL MAKE EVERYTHING ITSELF!!!

SINCE THE MOMENT YOU ENTER THIS BUSINESS YOUR PROFIT SNOWBALLS AND BY THE END OF 4TH MONTH YOU'LL GET AS MINIMUM $100,000. BUT IF YOU DON'T STOP THE RESULTS WILL BE ASTRONOMICAL - $1,000,000 FOR 1 YEAR!!!!


"What is the secret of such dizzy success?" - You ask. This is because there is a new formula in the business system which provides all participants with 100%-s' success due to the account of such special factors which the human brain is simply not capable of grasping. Therefore this excellent program works! And it works brilliantly! This is a prodigy-system in which success is madly infectious! Hurry up to achieve the success too!!!
 

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Have You ever wondered why the majority of people achieve nothing in life but only complain? This is because they are ready on a little in their life. They have a ready definitions on everything, but these definitions are formulated not by them and taken from the others. To have Your own opinion is a luxury and rarity. Those who are not afraid to try and work more than doubts very quickly appears at the top of the World! Yes, it is difficult to believe that it is possible to get rich so quickly, difficult to overcome the doubts and find Yourself suddenly fantastically rich. But believe if You will do it, it becomes Your blessing and Your dizzy success! You will not argue that You are worthy of big success and big richness, will You? And so it is vitally necessary for You to do this step to find the financial independence which will bring You co-operation with superprogram 6X6! Your time has come!
 

"Pair words about the system..." - an interview with Igor Tichtchenkov, the founder of the business system
 
 


- In view of prompt rates of development of the Internet and electronic commerce the number of users of the "World Wide Web" grows with the great speed. There are more than 15,000 new people who join the Internet daily. With the growth of number of the Internet's users the number of different types of business programs also grows. Every day their popularity increases too and it is natural because the electronic commerce is the business of the 21st century. But business system 6X6 surpasses all others on some orders - it is possible to judge it by looking at the success it brings to all its participants. What is its advantage above the other business programs of similar type? Why does 6X6 bring success to all its participants - not only for its founder and the people who stand near him?

- Yes, You are absolutely right about the prompt development of electronic commerce and the occurrence of many business systems similar to 6X6.

Before the development of the program 6X6 I had closely studied all systems existing at concurrently and understood the way they had appeared. Probably everyone remembers those bonds which were so popular in 90-s. And so with the development of the Internet someone who knows nothing about computer technologies and of the principles of the "World Wide Web" simply transferred this program with bonds to the network. Yes, the idea is ingenious especially for those times - without the Internet You will hardly find 5 clients, in the network there are millions of users and it is possible to send thousands of advertising letters and find a lot of clients. But this system had setbacks: absence of the description of how to send a bulk mailing of advertising letters, where to take thousands of e-mail addresses etc. The most important deficiency was that this system was designed for extremely honest people. In the advertising letter there was a form similar to our business-table according to which the person who entered that business system had to buy its commodity units (each at the different participant). When he bought them he had to put his postal address for payment opposite to the first commodity unit and shift all other addresses one level below. If nobody supervised him he could change the table somehow. For example if he opened some P.O. boxes with various names at different post offices of the city and put the requisitions of these so-called "dead souls" to the table instead of the previous participants and the process stopped that way. Thus the system worked only at 100% at the first level, 1% -at the second, 0,1% - at the third and 0% at the fourth. Actually the profit came only from the first level, i.e. from direct sales. If You sent about 3,000 advertising letters per day You earned about $300 - $400 per month. But the idea of such kind of business systems - was to bring a maximum of the profit due to the last two levels, i.e. You send a party of letters, for example 10,000, receive 30 orders for the first level commodity unit and further the system works for You for several years. But many people earn these $300 - $400 per month sending 3,000 letters per day, having opened some P.O. boxes and put their requisitions everywhere where only it was possible. The commodity units also didn't contain useful information, excepting the names in the advertising letter. Therefore when You worked with such system You deceived the clients.

Probably, there is no sense to describe all other similar kinds of business systems because they are the copies of previous in literal sense. All they appeared that way - the essence was copied and secondary factors such as the names of commodity units, ways of payment, the contents of the advertising letter etc. were changed. It is possible to tell one about all of them: they are "created" (if it is possible to apply this word to pure plagiarism) by amateurs, that are distant from business in general (what is electronic commerce - they simply don't know!) as well as from computer technologies. But the idea to create such business systems is genious. Especially at our time – a time of the cutting edge Internet development and electronic commerce. Excluding the deficiencies of this system it is invaluable! Can You imagine what will the Internet look like in five years!

Even though the task was very difficult I developed such a business system.

The absence of the description of how to send a bulk mailing of advertising letters, where to take thousands of e-mail addresses and other technical details, I compensated with a specially developed software for automation of this process, that allowed one to send 5,000 to 20,000 advertising letters per day having spent only 30-40 minutes of the time, and with the very detailed description of work with this software, written in language which is comprehensible for users of any level and a plenty of advices and recommendations. I managed to do two things at once: to considerably increase productivity of the business system and to make the commondity units not only useful - required for the every participant of the business system, because they contain this special software and the description of work with it.

I stopped the dishonesty of participants by an obligatory registration at the main office of 6X6 MLM Corporation.

Because the system does not break I have added 2 additional levels and now the system has 6 levels (and the commodity unit of every level costs $6 - therefore and the name "6X6").

I made a more flexible system of the payment for the orders. Now the commodity units can be paid both by the "traditional" first class mail and can be transferred on the bank account. But I forbade to specify P.O. boxes as the address for payment for avoidance of a deceit and that the business system don't lose its attractiveness. Proceeding from the same reasons I forbade WebMoney.

I concluded the contract with iWin Loto Ltd. So with registration in our main office You are automatically included in a lottery and Your chances to win are directly proportional to the amount of sold Chapter#1.
 

The responses of our partners
 
 


My name is Jerry Proctor. Two years ago, the corporation I worked at for the past fifteen years down-sized and my position was eliminated. After unproductive job interviews, I decided to open my own business. Over the past year, I incurred many unforeseen financial problems. I owed my family, friends and creditors over $35,000. The economy was taking a toll on my business and I just couldn't seem to make ends meet. I had to refinance and borrow against my home to support my family and struggling business. AT THAT MOMENT something significant happened in my life and I am writing to share the experience in hopes that this will change Your life FOREVER FINANCIALLY!!! In mid December, I received this program via e-mail. Six month's prior to receiving this program I had been sending away for information on various business opportunities. All of the programs I received, in my opinion, were not cost effective. They were either too difficult for me to comprehend or the initial investment was too much for me to risk to see if they would work or not. One claimed that I would make a million dollars in one year ...it didn't tell me I'd have to write a book to make it! But like I was saying, in December of 1997 I received this program. I didn't send for it, or ask for it, they just got my name off a mailing list. THANK GOODNESS FOR THAT!!! After reading it several times, to make sure I was reading it correctly, I couldn't believe my eyes. Here was a MONEY MAKING PHENOMENON. I could invest as much as I wanted to start, without putting me further into debt. After I got a pencil and paper and figured it out, I would at least get my money back. But like most of You I was still a little skeptical and a little worried about the legal aspects of it all. So I checked it out with the U.S. Post Office (1-800-725-2161 24-hrs) and they confirmed that it is indeed legal! After determining the program was LEGAL and NOT A CHAIN LETTER, I decided "WHY NOT." Initially I sent out 30,000 e-mails. It cost me about $15 for my time on-line. The great thing about e-mail is that I don't need any money for printing to send out the program, and because all of my orders are fulfilled via e-mail, the only expense is my time. I am telling You like it is, I hope it doesn't turn You off, but I promised myself that I would not "rip-off" anyone, no matter how much money it cost me. In less than two weeks, I was starting to receive orders for CHAPTER#1. By January 13, I had received 36 orders for CHAPTER#1. Your goal is to "RECEIVE at least 30 ORDERS FOR CHAPTER#1" My first step in making $100,000 in 120 days was done. By January 30, I had received 246 orders for CHAPTER#2. Your goal is to "RECEIVE AT LEAST 150 ORDERS FOR CHAPTER#2. IF NOT, SEND OUT MORE PROGRAMS UNTIL YOU DO. ONCE YOU HAVE 150 ORDERS, THE REST IS EASY, RELAX, YOU WILL MAKE YOUR $100,000 GOAL." Well, I had 246 orders for CHAPTER#2, 96 more than I needed. So I sat back and relaxed. By March 30, of my e-mailing of 30,000, I received $118,000 with more coming in every day. I paid off ALL my debts and bought a much needed new car. Please take time to read this program, IT WILL CHANGE YOUR LIFE FOREVER!!! Remember, it won't work if You don't try it. This program does work, but You must follow it EXACTLY! In order for this program to work, You must meet Your goal of 30+ orders for CHAPTER#1, and 150+ orders for CHAPTER#2 and You will make $100,000 or more in 120 days. I AM LIVING PROOF THAT IT WORKS!!! If You choose not to participate in this program, I am sorry. It really is a great opportunity with little cost or risk to You. If You choose to participate, follow the program and You will be on Your way to financial security. If You are a fellow business owner and are if financial trouble like I was, or You want to start Your own business, consider this a sign. I DID!

Sincerely, Jerry Proctor.

 


This program really works. I live outside the US, in Europe and at first I had doubts, I wasn't sure if it would work and so I didn't take it very seriously. But after a while I figured "Why not?". After all, I can't loose much. I sended the requests for the Chapters (I did everything just like I had to because I wanted to do everything right, so if it wouldn't work it wouldn't be my fault, but the program's) and waited. After a while the Chapters arrived by e-mail and I read them several times, they gave me precise information on how to let the program work and after I knew it all, I started my work. I started searching e-mail addresses everywhere (sites, magazines,...) and made long lists (I really enjoyed this because it was like a new hobby and I had nothing to loose). like crazy I started sending e-mail to people all over the world. I kept doing this and checked the mail every day. After two weeks orders started to arrive. I remember the moment when I went to the mailbox and I found the first order for Chapter#1. I just stood there for a moment and I said to myself: "this works, this thing f..... works!!!" I was so happy that I started sending even more e-mails. The next day, nothing in the mail, I thought "maybe this is it" and I was a bit dissapointed but the next day I received 3 orders for Chapter#1. I sended the Chapters to those people so they could start making money too (for them and for me). Two weeks later I was sitting almost 30 minutes a day before my computer sending Chapters to people that had ordered them. In these two weeks I received 39 orders for Chapter#1. Profit so far: about 240 dollars. After that orders came faster and faster, every week I got hundreds of orders and the dollars kept coming. In total I received 124'000 dollars. can You believe this??? Last week I bought a new motorcycle and I owe it all to this program. if You're reading this letter right now and You're not sure whether to participate or not I can only say one thing: TRY IT, You won't regret. This is Your chance, take it now or You will be sorry for the rest of Your live.

H.J. Moines, France.

 


The main reason for this letter is to convince You that this system is honest, lawful, extremely profitable, and is a way to get a large amount of money in a short time. I was approached several times before I checked this out. I joined just to see what one could expect in return for the minimal effort and money required. To my astonishment, I received $136,470 in the first 14 weeks, with money still coming in.

Charles Morris, Esq.

 


Not being the gambling type, it took me several weeks to make up my mind to participate in this plan. But conservative that I am, I decided that the initial investment was so little that there was just no way that I wouldn't get enough orders to at least get my money back. Boy, was I surprised when I found my medium-size mailbox crammed with orders! For awhile, it got so overloaded that I had to start picking up my mail at the window. I'll make more money this year than any 10 years of my life before. The nice thing about this deal is that it doesn't matter where people live. There simply isn't a better investment with a faster return.

Paige Willis, Des Moines, IA.

 


I had received this program before. I deleted it, but later I wondered if I shouldn't have given it a try. Of course, I had no idea who to contact to get another copy, so I had to wait until I was e-mailed another program, ...11 months passed then it came... I didn't delete this one! I made more than $141,000 on the first try!!

Violet Wilson, Johnstown, PA.

 


This is my third time to participate in this plan. We have quit our jobs, and will soon buy a home on the beach and live off the interest on our money. The only way on earth that this plan will work for You is if You do it. For Your sake, and for Your family's sake don't pass up this golden opportunity. Good luck and happy spending!

Kerry Ford, Centerport, NY.

We wait for Your responses. Send them to the main office.
What is the 6X6?
 
 


So, let’s start earning heaps of money without leaving the house! "This is my chance!", - You exclaim having realized that is not necessary to go anywhere and to persuade somebody - only send advertising letters and receive profits! "And what is necessary to do for this purpose?" - the question is inevitable. Earning a heap of money - from $100,000 up to $1,000,000 - for the beginning You must be registered at the main office of the 6X6 MLM Corporation and receive a personal registration number. Having entered in 6X6, You become the distributor of the Chapters - detailed descriptions of work with business system 6X6 and optimization the computer. Clients of Your business become the people that will be interested in these Chapters. And the Chapters should interest them! People will be interested in business itself and all this is a guaranty that people certainly shall respond to Your letter. What is this letter? This is the advertising letter which You'll receive from the main office of the 6X6 MLM Corporation after the registration (it differs from the letter which You are reading now by the presence of Your registration number in the business table). You simply send it to a lot of people. How to find the endless amount of e-mails, how automatically send the advertising letter to them and many other things You will find out in the Chapters. If You are worried where to find so many e-mail addresses don’t bother. There are more than 15,000 new people connecting to the Internet daily!!! It'll be enough for everybody!!! After You send the application for registration, a letter will be sent to You, containing:

1) Your registration number,

2) The advertising letter with Your registration number in the business table. In the future You'll send this letter to thousands of recipients,

3) Postal addresses or bank accounts of other participants of the business system. It is necessary for You to order the Chapters from them, each Chapter from different participant (excepting the Master) according to the deciphered business table, that You had an opportunity to sell them to the customers.

Together with it You will also receive other instructions. Well the thing You'll have to do now is to catch the essence of the algorithm below. So, You have all Chapters and You have to send the letter which contains the foreword to these surprising Chapters as the advertisement. Having read it, the person who has received the letter from You will certainly want to enter to the business system 6X6 and read all Chapters. But even if suddenly he will not want to read the Chapters he'll certainly become interested in a unique opportunity to earn millions practically without any expenses, both on money and on time! I agree, it is just impossible to refuse it! Approximately in 2 weeks from the date of Your first mailing You will receive orders for the first Chapter and a payment for it ($6 for each Chapter) from 30 persons or even more. Thus, Your first income will be $180 or more. This is only the beginning! At registration You will be automatically included in a lottery from iWin Lotto - one of the most popular companies engaged in lotto-business in the World, the main prize is $5,000,000 (it is also played 5 prizes on $1,000,000, 100 prizes on $100,000 and more than 5,000 branded T-shirts from 6X6 MLM Corp., draws are carried out every month) – as much orders You get on Chapter#1, as much chances to win the main prize. Do You see?!!! All that is required of You is to send more advertising letters. All Your work will be to go to the bank from time to time or check Your mailbox for cash, and at home, in silence to count up everytime increasing profit! The guarantor of Your dizzy success and reliable ally becomes the most grandiose in the world computer superprogram 6X6!!!
 

THE CHAPTERS
 
 


The Chapters are the most detailed description of the business system 6X6, they are advices about the way to optimize the work with the system and adjust the computer for it. Having read them You will understand how to improve a connection with the Internet, how to find 5,000 to 20,000 e-mail addresses per day, to sort them, to send 5,000 to 20,000 advertising letters per day, how to increase productivity of the computer on 50% and many others interesting things, not applying special efforts.

The Chapters are written in language that is clear for the users of any levels, therefore for working with the business system 6X6 You don't need to be a programmer or even have computer experience. Moreover, if You have begun to work with the computer just yesterday and don't know anything about it, You should read attentively the Chapters and work some time with the business system 6X6. Thus You will soon become an advanced user who knows everything about Windows and the Internet. In addition You also get the special software with each Chapter that is necessary for work and certain amount of e-mail addresses.

The list of the Chapters:

Chapter#1 “Introduction to business system 6Х6. Optimization of the Internet connection. How to use the Internet much more effectively.”

+20,000 e-mails
+software for automatic reconnecting to the Internet and its complete description.

Chapter#2 “How to find 5,000 to 20,000 e-mails per day, working about 30-40 minutes.”

+10,000 e-mails
+software for automatic inclusion/deenergizing of the program for e-mails searching at connection/break of connection with the Internet described in the previous Chapter.

Chapter#3 “How to sort e-mails.”

+10,000 e-mails
+software for automatic e-mails searching described in the previous Chapter.

Chapter#4 “How to send 5,000 to 20,000 thousand advertising letters per day, working the same 30-40 minutes.”

+10,000 e-mails
+software for fast e-mails sorting described in the previous Chapter.

Chapter#5 “The most effective algorithm of the work with the business system 6X6.”

+80,000 e-mails (!)
+software for automatic sending a huge amount of the advertising letters with attachments described in the previous Chapter.

Chapter#6 “Optimize Your computer, raise its productivity on 50%.”

+100,000 e-mails (!)
+the server part of the software for automatic sending a huge amount of the advertising letters with attachments.

THE RULES OF THE PARTICIPATION IN THE BUSINESS SYSTEM 6X6
 
 


The terms:

The master – Igor Tichtchenkov, the founder of the business system;

referrer – the participant of 6X6 from that You have received this advertising letter and should order the Chapter;

client – the owner of e-mail address where You send the advertising letter;

referral – the participant of 6X6 who has ordered from You the Chapter.

How does the business system 6X6 work
 
 


The following system was developed to earn not only from the direct sales (i.e. when You sell the Chapter#1 to Your referrals) but also from the sales of the referrals (i.e. when Your referrals bring to You buyers on Chapter#2 - Chapter#6). There is a following table (so-called the business table) in the advertising letter:

Chapter#1...............referrer nr.1
Chapter#2...............referrer nr.2
Chapter#3...............referrer nr.3
Chapter#4...............referrer nr.4
Chapter#5...............referrer nr.5
Chapter#6...............referrer nr.6

Opposite to each Chapter there is the essential elements of different participants, i.e. You will buy the Chapter#1 from referrer nr.1, Chapter#2 from referrer nr.2, Chapter#3 from referrer nr.3, Chapter#4 from referrer nr.4, Chapter#5 from referrer nr.5, Chapter#6 from referrer nr.6. When You will be registered You'll receive the advertising letter with the business table changed as follows:

Chapter#1...............You
Chapter#2...............referrer nr.1
Chapter#3...............referrer nr.2
Chapter#4...............referrer nr.3
Chapter#5...............referrer nr.4
Chapter#6...............referrer nr.5

Then You begin to send the advertising letter with such business table. I.e. Your referrals will buy the Chapter#1 from You, Chapter#2 from referrer nr.1, Chapter#3 from referrer nr.2, Chapter#4 from referrer nr.3, Chapter#5 from referrer nr.4, Chapter#6 from referrer nr.5. Your referrals nr.1 (they who will buy Chapter#1 from You) will get similarly transformed business table:

Chapter#1...............referral nr.1
Chapter#2...............You
Chapter#3...............referrer nr.1
Chapter#4...............referrer nr.2
Chapter#5...............referrer nr.3
Chapter#6...............referrer nr.4

Then they begin to send the advertising letter with such business table. I.e. their referrals nr.1 (Your referrals nr.2) will buy the Chapter#1 from them (from Your referrals nr.1), Chapter#2 from You, Chapter#3 from referrer nr.1, Chapter#4 from referrer nr.2, Chapter#5 from referrer nr.3, Chapter#6 from referrer nr.4. And etc...

Thus Your referrals involve the clients to the Chapter#1 for themselves and also involve the clients to the other Chapters for You. That means that a direct task of each participant of business system 6X6 - to get as more as possible orders for Chapter#1.

Let's just count up how much money You will earn if each participant involves 10 referrals nr.1:

You......................10 X $6 = $60
Your referrals nr.1...10 X 10 X $6 = $600
Your referrals nr.2...10 X 10 X 10 X $6 = $6,000
Your referrals nr.3...10 X 10 X 10 X 10 X $6 = $60,000
Your referrals nr.4...10 X 10 X 10 X 10 X 10 X $6 = $600,000
Your referrals nr.5...10 X 10 X 10 X 10 X 10 X 10 X $6 = $6,000,0000

Total You will earn $6,666,660!

The figure is not small and therefore You may have doubts. - Try to figure Yourself and You'll get the same result!

Protection against the fraud
 
 


The following protection was developed to exclude breaking of the system.

In the advertising letter there is such business table:

Chapter#1...............reg. nr. of the 1st referrer
Chapter#2...............reg. nr. of the 2nd referrer
Chapter#3...............reg. nr. of the 3rd referrer
Chapter#4...............reg. nr. of the 4th referrer
Chapter#5...............reg. nr. of the 5th referrer
Chapter#6...............reg. nr. of the 6th referrer

The client who has received this advertising letter knows only registration numbers of the referrers from that he must buy the Chapters. He can't buy all their Chapters directly because he doesn't know their requisitions.

Further he registers at the main office of 6X6 MLM Corporation and gets:

1) His registration number;

2) Addresses and bank accounts of all referrers at that he must buy the Chapters;

3) The advertising letter with the changed business table likes that:

Chapter#1...............His reg. nr.
Chapter#2...............reg. nr. of the 1st referrer
Chapter#3...............reg. nr. of the 2nd referrer
Chapter#4...............reg. nr. of the 3rd referrer
Chapter#5...............reg. nr. of the 4th referrer
Chapter#6...............reg. nr. of the 5th referrer

buys all of the Chapters and begins to send this letter.

Due to this protection he can't stop the process and leave their own referrers without their profit. The process can be stopped only if their requisitions will not be in the business table. It is possible only if he will replace requisitions of all five referrers with his requisitios. But he can't do that because for this purpose it will come to register 6 times, whereas it is possible to register only once.
 

ARE YOU READY TO START WITH THE BUSINESS SYSTEM 6X6! LET'S START!
 
 


Attention! There is an enormous amount of referrals who enter the business system 6X6 and that's why from the 1st of September 2000 the registration costs $5.

WHAT YOU NEED TO DO:

a) Register at the main office of 6X6 MLM Corporation:

1) Write on a sheet of paper:

1) Your name;
2) Your postal address for payment;
3) Your bank account for payment (optional);
4) Your e-mail - write legibly and use it only for communication with the main office;
5) The business table which is below;
6) The date.

2) Put $5 in this sheet of paper and send by the first class mail to the 6x6 MLM Corporation's main office:

Igor Tichtchenkov, Laanemere 20-96, 13913 Tallinn, Estonia.

3) Within one week You'll receive (via e-mail You have written in the registration form) the letter containing:

1) Your registration number;
2) Addresses of the referrers from that You should buy the Chapters;
3) The advertising letter with Your registration number for mailing;
4) The instructions that is necessary for beginning.

b) Buy all of the Chapters according to the business table:

Chapter Nr.
Referrer's reg. nr.
Chapter#1
6x6-000000-z-001
Chapter#2
Master 6x6
Chapter#3
Master 6x6
Chapter#4
Master 6x6
Chapter#5
Master 6x6
Chapter#6
Master 6x6

THE NOTE! If several or even all registration numbers are "Master 6X6" - there isn't any mistake. When You join You'll be at the begining of the system and undoubtedly earn the enormous amount of money! Your chances to the success are maximal!

As soon as You do this, start sending the advertising letters (more detailed information about the way to do it You will find at the Chapters). In general You should involve about 30 referrals - i.e. to sell 30 Chapters #1. But the more referrals You involve the more Your profit will be!

Try to send 3,000 or more advertising letters per day - it is very easy to do with the special software which You'll get together with the Chapters. If You can send more - do it! Remember as many advertising letters You send the more orders You will get!

The entire process lasts approximately for 4 months. If You precisely follow all the rules, You undoubtedly will be the owner of several hundreds thousand dollars! We know that it will be like that and we congratulate You!!!

And now let's start!

We wish You Great Success!!!

 
 

Copyright © 2000 6x6 MLM Corporation. All rights reserved.
Желаем Вам приятного и успешного дня!
 
Это заработок без отрыва от монитора!


Если Вы проявите некоторый интерес и терпение, а главное, разберетесь, как ЭТО работает, Вы можете хорошо заработать в течение следующих 120 дней - до $100.000 и более!!!, это зависит только от Вас. КАЖЕТСЯ НЕВОЗМОЖНЫМ?? Прочитайте данный документ и Вы убедитесь, что в этом нет никакой каверзы или обмана. Если Вы полный лентяй - просим прощение за предложение!!!,- то это не для Вас!!! Лучше занимайтесь серфингом или кликайте по баннерам или же не занимайтесь ничем.

!!!Если предложение Вас ничем не заинтересовало, приносим свои извинения и не надо сердиться. "Спам" имеет свои издержки, так же как радио и TV, но не забывайте, что сказал первый миллиардер США Дейл Карнеги:

"Я лучше буду зарабатывать 1% в результате усилий 100 человек, чем 100% в результате своих собственных усилий."


ВСТАНЬТЕ НА ПУТЬ К ФИНАНСОВОЙ НЕЗАВИСИМОСТИ И СВОБОДЕ!!!
Добро пожаловать в 6X6!
 
В это трудно поверить, но, тем не менее, это свершившийся факт! Люди богатеют на глазах! Некоторые даже месяцы спустя не могут оправиться от шока, пришедшего вместе с кучей хрустящих банкнот! Пока остальные раздумывают и сомневаются, поверившие в чудо Бизнес Системы 6Х6 купаются в деньгах!...
 
Число пользователей "всемирной паутины" растет с молниеносной быстротой. Уже сейчас только в России к сети Интернет ежедневно подключаются более 2000 человек, на Западе и в США эта цифра в несколько раз больше...
 

Copyright © 2000 6x6 MLM Corporation. All rights reserved.
ДАМЫ И ГОСПОДА!
 
 


ПРОЧТИТЕ ЭТО ВДУМЧИВО, ВНИМАТЕЛЬНО, НЕ ОТВЛЕКАЯСЬ НА ВНЕШНИЕ ШУМЫ И РАЗДРАЖИТЕЛИ, И ВЫ ПОЙМЕТЕ, ЧТО СДЕЛАЕТ ВАС ПО-НАСТОЯЩЕМУ БОГАТЫМИ И СВОБОДНЫМИ ЛЮДЬМИ!!!
 

 


В это трудно поверить, но, тем не менее, это свершившийся факт! Люди богатеют на глазах! Некоторые даже месяцы спустя не могут оправиться от шока, пришедшего вместе с кучей хрустящих банкнот! Пока остальные раздумывают и сомневаются, поверившие в чудо Бизнес Системы 6Х6 купаются в деньгах! В буквальном смысле слова! Вы когда-нибудь видели, как выглядит ворох сотенных купюр, под которым целиком умещается взрослый человек?! Это 100 тысяч долларов! Можете себе представить, как бы выглядела куча из миллиона долларов, которые зарабатывает каждый третий участник суперпрограммы 6Х6? А каково ощущение, когда ты, особо не утруждая себя работой, уже на второй неделе начинаешь получать конверты с шестью долларами, и чем дальше, тем больше! А, в конце концов, на 3-м, на 4-м месяце ты уже не знаешь, куда от них деваться! Даже дух захватывает от этой лавины денег!
 

ВСЕ, ЧТО ВАМ НУЖНО БУДЕТ ДЕЛАТЬ, ЭТО РАССЫЛАТЬ ГОТОВЫЕ ПИСЬМА ПО E-MAIL И ВРЕМЯ ОТ ВРЕМЕНИ ХОДИТЬ НА ПОЧТУ ИЛИ В БАНК ЗА ДЕНЬГАМИ! ВАМ ДАЖЕ НЕ НАДО НАПРЯГАТЬ СВОЙ МОЗГ – ЗА ВАС ВСЕ СДЕЛАЕТ КОМПЬЮТЕРНАЯ СУПЕР БИЗНЕС СИСТЕМА 6Х6!

С МОМЕНТА ВАШЕГО ВСТУПЛЕНИЯ В БИЗНЕС ПРИБЫЛЬ НАРАСТАЕТ, КАК СНЕЖНЫЙ КОМ, И К КОНЦУ 4-ГО МЕСЯЦА ВЫ ПОЛУЧИТЕ КАК МИНИМУМ 100.000 ДОЛЛАРОВ. А ЕСЛИ ВЫ НЕ ОСТАНОВИТЕСЬ НА ДОСТИГНУТОМ, ТО РЕЗУЛЬТАТОМ БУДУТ АСТРОНОМИЧЕСКИЕ 1.000.000 ДОЛЛАРОВ ЗА ГОД!


“В ЧЕМ СЕКРЕТ ТАКОГО ГОЛОВОКРУЖИТЕЛЬНОГО УСПЕХА?”, – СПРОСИТЕ ВЫ. ДЕЛО В ТОМ, ЧТО В ПРОГРАММЕ 6Х6 ЗАЛОЖЕНА НОВАЯ ФОРМУЛА, КОТОРАЯ ОБЕСПЕЧИВАЕТ 100%-НЫЙ УСПЕХ ВСЕМ УЧАСТНИКАМ БИЗНЕСА ЗА СЧЕТ УЧЕТА ТАКИХ УТОНЧЕННЫХ ФАКТОРОВ, КОТОРЫЕ ЧЕЛОВЕЧЕСКИЙ МОЗГ ПРОСТО НЕ СПОСОБЕН ОХВАТИТЬ. ПОЭТОМУ ПРОГРАММА РАБОТАЕТ! И РАБОТАЕТ БЛЕСТЯЩЕ! ЭТО – ЧУДО-СИСТЕМА, В КОТОРОЙ УСПЕХ БЕЗУМНО ЗАРАЗЕН! СПЕШИТЕ ЗАРАЗИТЬСЯ И ВЫ!
 

ВНИМАНИЕ!!!
 
 


В ЛАБОРАТОРИИ СОЦИОЛОГИЧЕСКИХ ИССЛЕДОВАНИЙ В США БЫЛ ПРОВЕДЕН ЭКСПЕРИМЕНТ: ПРОГРАММА 6Х6 БЫЛА ЗАПУЩЕНА 16 РАЗ В САМЫХ РАЗЛИЧНЫХ УСЛОВИЯХ И С САМЫМИ РАЗНЫМИ ЛЮДЬМИ В КАЧЕСТВЕ УЧАСТНИКОВ БИЗНЕСА, И ВСЕ 16 РАЗ ОНА ПРИНОСИЛА ОДИНАКОВЫЙ УСПЕХ, И НЕ БЫЛО НИ ОДНОГО ЧЕЛОВЕКА, КОТОРЫЙ БЫ ЧУВСТВОВАЛ СЕБЯ ОБДЕЛЕННЫМ И ОБИЖЕННЫМ. ТАКЖЕ СПЕЦИАЛИСТЫ ПРОИЗВЕЛИ НАУЧНЫЙ АНАЛИЗ ФЕНОМЕНА 6Х6 И УСТАНОВИЛИ, ЧТО, НЕСМОТРЯ НА ВНЕШНЕЕ СХОДСТВО, ПО СВОЕЙ МИКРОСТРУКТУРЕ ОНА В КОРНЕ ОТЛИЧАЕТСЯ ОТ СЕТЕВОГО МАРКЕТИНГА И ПРИВОДИТ К НЕСРАВНИМО БОЛЕЕ ВЫСОКИМ, А САМОЕ ГЛАВНОЕ – ДЕМОКРАТИЧНЫМ РЕЗУЛЬТАТАМ, Т.К. ВСЕ УЧАСТНИКИ ЭТОГО БИЗНЕСА ИМЕЮТ ДОХОД. СРЕДИ АМЕРИКАНСКИХ БИЗНЕСМЕНОВ ЭТА СУПЕРПРОГРАММА ПРОИЗВЕЛА НАСТОЯЩИЙ ФУРОР: ОНИ ПРОЗВАЛИ ЕЕ “DIAMOND STREAM”, ЧТО ПЕРЕВОДИТСЯ КАК “АЛМАЗНЫЙ ПОТОК”. “ПОТОК” – ПОТОМУ ЧТО ДЕНЬГИ ТЕКУТ РЕКОЙ, А “АЛМАЗНЫЙ” – ПОТОМУ ЧТО ЭТОТ УСПЕХ ТАКОЙ ЖЕ ПРОЧНЫЙ И НЕЗЫБЛЕМЫЙ, КАК АЛМАЗ!” – ОТВЕТИЛ ОДИН ИЗ БИЗНЕСМЕНОВ НА ВОПРОС КОРРЕСПОНДЕНТА “NEW-YORK TIMES”.
 

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Вы никогда не задумывались, почему большинство людей ничего не достигают в жизни, а только сетуют? Да потому что они мало на что в жизни решаются. На все у них есть готовые определения, причем сформулированные не ими самими, а услышанные от других. Но иметь свое проверенное мнение – это большая роскошь и редкость. Те же, кто не боится пробовать и живет больше действиями, чем сомнениями, очень быстро оказываются на вершине мира! Да, трудно поверить, что можно так быстро разбогатеть, трудно преодолеть свои сомнения, трудно представить себя вдруг сказочно богатым. Но поверьте, если Вы это сделаете, это станет вашим благом и вашим головокружительным успехом! Вы ведь не будете спорить с тем, что Вы достойны большого успеха и большого богатства? И поэтому Вам жизненно необходимо сделать этот шаг на встречу к финансовой независимости, к которой приведет Вас сотрудничество с суперпрограммой 6Х6! Потому что ваше время настало!
 

"Пара слов о системе..." - интервью с основателем бизнес системы 6Х6, Тищенковым И.А.
 
 


- Ввиду стремительных темпов развития сети Интернет и электронной коммерции число пользователей "всемирной паутины" растет с молниеносной быстротой. Уже сейчас только в России к сети Интернет ежедневно подключаются более 2000 человек, на Западе и в США эта цифра в несколько раз больше. С ростом числа пользователей Интернет растет и количество различного типа бизнес программ. С каждым днем они пользуются все большей популярностью и это естественно, ведь электронная коммерция - бизнес 21 века. Но бизнес система 6Х6 превосходит все остальные на несколько порядков - об этом можно судить глядя на то какой успех она приносит всем ее компаньонам. И все же в чем ее преимущество над другими бизнес программами аналогичного типа, почему она приносит успех всем ее участникам, а не только ее основателю и тем кто "стоит у истоков"?

- Да, Вы совершенно правы насчет стремительного развития электронной коммерции и появления большого количества бизнес систем аналогичных 6Х6.

Прежде чем разработать программу 6Х6 я внимательно изучил все существующие на данный момент системы и понял как они появились. Наверное все помнят те облигации, которые были так популярны у нас в 90-е годы. Так вот с развитием Интернет кто-то далекий от компьютерных технологий и знаний принципа работы "всемирной паутины" просто перенес эту программу с облигациями в сеть. Да, идея гениальна, особенно для тех времен - так Вы вряд ли найдете и 5 клиентов, в сети же можно рассылать тысячи рекламных писем. Но эта система имела множество недостатков: недокументированность того, как рассылать большое количество рекламы, где брать тысячи адресов электронной почты и т.д. Самым главным недостатком было то, что эта программа была рассчитана на слишком честных людей. В рекламном письме содержалась форма, аналогичная нашей бизнес-таблице, согласно которой вступавшие в систему должны были покупать товарные единицы системы (каждую у разного участника). Купив их они должны были ставить свои реквизиты напротив первой товарной единицы, а всех остальных сдвигать на один уровень ниже. Так как их никто не контролировал в их воле было изменять таблицу как угодно. Они открывали несколько абонентных ящиков на различные имена в разных почтовых отделениях города и ставили реквизиты этих т.н. "мертвых душ" в таблицу вместо предыдущих участников, т.е. система обрывалась. Из-за этого она работала только на 100% на первом уровне, 1% - на втором, 0,1% - на третьем и 0% - на четвертом. Практически заработок шел только с первого уровня, т.е. с прямых продаж, что при рассылке 3.000 рекламных писем в день составляло около $300 - $400 в месяц. Но суть бизнес систем такого типа - приносить максимум прибыли за счет 2-х последних уровней. Т.е. Вы рассылаете партию писем с рекламой, например, 10.000 шт., получаете 30 заказов на товарную единицу первого уровня и дальше в течение нескольких лет система работает на Вас. Но многих устраивали эти $300 - $400 в месяц, и они рассылали по 3.000 писем в день, открыв несколько абонентных ящиков и поставив свои реквизиты везде, где только можно. Так как товарные единицы по своей сути ничего не содержали, кроме названия в рекламном письме, то получалось, что работая с такой системой Вы, ко всему прочему, еще и обманывали своих клиентов.

Наверное, нет смысла описывать все остальные аналогичного типа бизнес системы - т.к. они в буквальном смысле являются копиями предыдущей. Да, именно так они и появились - копировалась суть и изменялись второстепенные факторы, такие как, названия товарных единиц, способы оплаты, содержание рекламного письма и т.д. О них всех можно сказать одно: все они "созданы" (если можно применить это слово к чистой воды плагиату) непрофессионалами, людьми далекими как от бизнеса вообще (что такое электронная коммерция - они и понятия не имеют!), так и от компьютерных технологий и сети Интернет. Но сама идея создать такого рода бизнес систему - гениальна. Особенно в наше время - время бурного развития сети Интернет и электронной коммерции. И если исключить недостатки, то такой системе цены нет! Вы только представьте себе чем будет Интернет хотя бы лет через пять!

И пусть задача была нелегкой, все же мне удалось разработать именно такую бизнес систему.

Недокументированность того где и как находить адреса электронной почты, как на них рассылать огромное количество рекламных писем и прочие технические детали я компенсировал специально разработанными программами для автоматизации этого процесса, позволившими рассылать 5-20 тысяч рекламных писем в день, затратив всего 30-40 минут собственного времени, наиподробнейшим описанием работы с ними, написанным языком понятным для пользователя любого уровня и большим количеством советов и рекомендаций. Чем по сути убил сразу двух зайцев: значительно повысил производительность бизнес системы и сделал товарные единицы не то что полезными - просто необходимыми для участника бизнес системы (впрочем, как и для любого занимающегося рекламой в сети Интернет), т.к. именно они содержат специальные программы и описание работы с ними.

Нечестность участников пресек обязательной регистрацией в главной конторе 6X6 MLM Corporation (подробнее в разделе "Защита от обмана").

Т.к. система не обрывается, добавил еще 2 уровня, т.е. всего в системе 6 уровней (по $6 за товарную единицу каждого уровня - отсюда и название "6X6").

Сделал более гибкой систему оплаты заказов. Теперь товарные единицы можно оплачивать как "традиционным" заказным авиаписьмом, так и переводом на банковский счет. Но запретил указывать в качестве адреса для оплаты абонентные ящики - во-первых, для избежания обмана, во-вторых, чтобы бизнес система не теряла своей привлекательности. Исходя из таких же соображений, запретил систему оплаты WebMoney.

Заключил договор с iWin Loto Ltd. Так что при регистрации в нашей главной конторе Вы автоматически включаетесь в лотерею, причем Ваши шансы выиграть прямо пропорциональны количеству проданных Chapter#1.
 

Отзывы наших компаньонов
 
 


Всем привет! Спешу поделиться с Вами впечатлением от программы 6Х6, чтобы Вы, не дай Бог, не прошли мимо. Письмо пришло на e-mail моему мужу. Он решил повеселить меня и позвал почитать, “какую лапшу сейчас на уши вешают”. Я не особо вникла в систему, да особо и не старалась что-то понять, потому что не верила в такого рода способы заработка, т.е. не захотела заработать 100.000 долларов. Но, к моему счастью, эта цифра все крутилась в моем мозгу и не давала спать. И все-таки, в конце концов, я решила отважно броситься на письмо. К счастью, муж его еще не стер. К своему удивлению, читая 2-й раз, я все понимала. А самое главное, что я уяснила, это то, что напрягаться-то почти не надо! И времени и денежек своих тоже почти тратить не надо. К тому же меня, как и Вас, привлекло то, что все делает компьтер и что не нужно ничему учиться, т.к. алгоритм работы подробно описан в Chapter`ах! В общем, решила я, была – не была. Попробую! За две недели я разослала около 30.000 писем и решила, что с меня хватит. Через несколько дней стали приходить заказы – пришел 31 заказ на 1-ую часть и $186 до конца месяца. “Ну, - думаю, - пошло дело”. В течение следующих двух месяцев приходили еще заказы на 1 часть и пришло около 5.000 заказов на 2,3,4 и 5 части и $30.000! ОГО! Месяц спустя у меня было уже более $110.000! Ну, а потом стало совсем классно – к нынешнему моменту деньги продолжают прибывать, а у меня одна проблема – куда бы их деть?! Я думаю, фантазия у Вас работает, и Вы можете себе представить, сколько удовольствий можно доставлять себе, имея такие деньги!

Валентина, г. Москва.

 


Здравствуйте, уважаемые господа и дамы! Не так давно – полгода назад я, так же как и Вы, сидел и читал письмо, пришедшее на мой e-mail. И, как большинство из Вас, я терзался сомнениями. Хотя, если посмотреть трезво – непонятно почему. Видно, так привык человек, всего бояться и страшиться. Да, велики были глаза у моего страха, но я решил попробовать. Ведь в самом ужасном случае я ничего не потеряю, кроме нескольких часов времени, которое и так у меня тратиться бессмысленно, а только узнаю побольше о работе компьютера и его оптимизации. К тому же я подумал, что хоть одного человека я точно найду, чтобы вернуть свои $6 за первую часть. Не буду утомлять Вас подробностями. Я просто четко и досконально выполнял все правила бизнес системы 6Х6. И в течение 4-х месяцев я заработал 120.000 долларов! И это в мои 25 лет! Теперь я буду коллекционировать произведения искусства! Об этом всегда я мечтал. Ну а сейчас я еду, не смейтесь, на Мальорку в свадебное путешествие с любимой, которая не устояла перед моим богатством. Теперь – вся жизнь впереди! Красивая и счастливая, в богатстве и роскоши с 6Х6!!!

Александр, г. Санкт-Петербург.

 


В первый раз я конкретно стормозил, удалив письмо о программе 6Х6. Я еще посмеялся над тем, что кто-то вдруг станет мне слать деньги. И как же я проклинал свою недоверчивость, когда позвонил брат из Новороссийска и рассказал мне как раз об этом бизнесе и о том, какая это классная штука! Какой я дурак! Ведь я же сам мечтал стать богатым, как же еще я могу быстро разбогатеть, если не с помощью вот такого бизнеса? И когда через месяц письмо снова нашло меня, я уже был умнее. Тут же взялся за дело и разослал около 70 тысяч писем по электронной почте. Отклик был почти мгновенным (есть еще умные люди на свете!). А от Chapter`ов с описанием я вообще обалдел, особенно от последнего! Мало того что я сразу понял как работать с системой, теперь – мой Celeron 300 работает быстрее, чем Celeron 466 моего друга! Это удивительно – тратишь не больше получаса в день на работу с 6Х6 и получаешь такие деньги!!! Короче, дальше все пошло как по маслу. Ежедневно почтальон приносил по 10 - 15 конвертов, в каждом из которых по $6! Yes-s! Эта штука заработала!!! А я еще не верил! Вот, блин, пень! Прав был брателла! А что началось потом! Когда я стал продавать 2 часть, каждый день мне приносили по 20-30 конвертов с купюрами. Ну, а когда я занялся 3, 4, 5 и 6 частями, я просто не знал куда от них деваться! На прошлой неделе я купил себе новый “Lincoln Navigator”. Классный джип! Всегда мечтал о таком! В каком бы дурном настроении я ни проснулся утром, стоит мне вспомнить о моем сверкающем на солнце джипе, я начинаю чувствовать себя самым счастливым человеком на Свете! И все – благодаря суперпрограмме 6Х6!!! Пишу это с надеждой, что мой урок неверия пойдет Вам на пользу, и вы не станете, как я в первый раз, удалять из своего компьютера это письмо, которое имеет приятное свойство превращаться в неограниченное количество денег! Удачи Вам!

Игорь, г. Волгоград.

 


Я сразу сердцем ощутила, что это мой шанс! Наконец-то исполнится заветная мечта моего детства – съездить в Америку! Я с удовольствием принялась участвовать в программе 6Х6. Но по началу сомневалась, удасться ли мне найти так много адресов e-mail. Однако, когда пришли Chapter`ы с описанием, то вместе с ними пришло объяснение, как легко, без всяких проблем можно найти сколько угодно адресов электронной почты. За месяц я разослала более 150.000 писем, и эффект не заставил себя долго ждать – я получила 68 заказов на первую главу! В конце концов, я заработала 170 тысяч долларов!!! Теперь я, пожалуй, переберусь в Америку на совсем. Сбылась моя голубая мечта! Спасибо, дорогая 6Х6! А еще спасибо за удивительное описание работы с системой. Желаю всем Вам стать такими же счастливыми, как и я, благодаря суперпрограмме 6Х6!

Марина, г. Рига.

Ждем Ваших отзывов. Присылайте их на адрес главной конторы.
ЧТО ЖЕ ТАКОЕ 6Х6?
 
 


Итак, зарабатывать кучи денег, не выходя из дома! “Вот это шанс!”, – воскликните Вы, осознав, что никуда не нужно ходить, никого не нужно уговаривать, а только знай себе – посылай e-mail`ы и получай прибыль! “А что же для этого нужно делать?” – неизбежен вопрос. Для того, чтоб заработать кучу денег, а именно – 100.000 долларов и более, для начала Вам нужно будет зарегистрироваться в главной конторе 6Х6 MLM Corporation и получить свой личный регистрационный номер. Вступив в 6Х6, Вы становитесь распространителем по Интернету Chapter`ов (глав) с наиподробнейшим описанием работы с бизнес системой 6Х6 и оптимизации компьютера (подробнее о них в следующем разделе). Клиентами Вашего бизнеса становятся люди, которых эти главы заинтересуют. А главы просто не могут не заинтересовать - они содержат уникальную информацию, просто необходимую для любого, кто хочет добиться успеха в сетевом маркетинге! Кроме того, людей заинтересует сам бизнес, и все это является гарантией того, что люди непременно будут откликаться на Ваше письмо. Что это за письмо? Это – то самое письмо, которое Вы получите после регистрации в главной конторе 6Х6 MLM Corporation (отличается от письма, которое Вы сейчас читаете, присутствием Вашего регистрационного номера в бизнес-таблице). Вы просто отправляете его как можно большему количеству людей. Подробнее о том, как найти бесконечное количество e-mail`ов, автоматически разослать на них рекламное письмо и многое другое Вы узнаете непосредственно в самих главах. Если Вы думаете: “Откуда возьмется так много адресов?”, то это не стоит того, чтобы беспокоиться. Ежедневно только в России к Интернету подключаются минимум 2000 новых пользователей!!! На всех хватит! После того как Вы отправите заявку на регистрацию, Вам прийдет письмо, содержащее:

1) Ваш регистрационный номер,

2) Рекламное письмо с Вашим регистрационным номером в бизнес-таблице, которое Вы будете рассылать,

3) Реквизиты остальных участников бизнес системы 6Х6, у которых Вам необходимо заказать Chapter`ы, каждый у разного (исключение составляет только мастер) в соответствии с расшифрованной бизнес-таблицей, чтобы Вы сами имели возможность продавать их своим заказчикам.

Вместе с этим Вы получите также и дальнейшие указания программы 6Х6. Ну а то, что Вам нужно будет сделать сразу сейчас, описано ниже в виде четкого алгоритма, поэтому пока просто уловите суть. Итак, Вы обладаете всеми главами и рассылаете письмо, в котором в качестве рекламы содержится предисловие к этим удивительным главам. Прочитав его, человек, получивший от Вас письмо, непременно захочет вступить в бизнес систему 6Х6 и прочитать все главы. Но даже если вдруг он не захочет читать Chapter`ы, он наверняка заинтересуется уникальной возможностью заработать миллионы практически без всяких затрат, как по деньгам, так и по времени! Согласитесь, от этого просто невозможно отказаться! Примерно через 2 недели со дня начала рассылки Вы получите заказы на первую главу и плату за нее (в размере 6 долларов США) от 30-ти человек и более. Таким образом, Ваш первый доход составит минимум – $180. И это – только начало! При регистрации Вы будете автоматически включены в лотерею от iWin Loto - одной из самых популярных на Западе и в США компаний занимающихся лото-бизнесом, главный приз которой - $5.000.000 (также разыгрывается 5 призов по $1.000.000, 100 призов по $100.000 и более 5 тысяч фирменных футболок от 6Х6 MLM Corporation, розыгрыши проводятся каждый месяц) – чем больше Вы получите заказов на Chapter#1, тем больше шансов выиграть главный приз. Вы видите?!!! Все, что от Вас требуется, это разослать побольше рекламных писем. Вся Ваша работа будет заключаться только в том, чтобы время от времени проверять свой почтовый ящик или ходить в банк за наличными и дома, в тишине подсчитывать все нарастающую прибыль! Гарантом Вашего головокружительного успеха и надежным союзником становится самая грандиозная в мире компьютерная суперпрограмма 6Х6!!!
 

CHAPTER`Ы
 
 


Chapter`ы (или главы) – это подробнейшее описание бизнес системы 6Х6, советы о том как оптимально работать с системой и настроить для этого свой компьютер. Прочитав их Вы поймете как не прилагая особых усилий улучшить связь с Интернет, находить по 5-20 тыс. e-mail`ов в день, обрабатывать их, рассылать по 5-20 рекламных писем в день, повысить производительность своего компьютера на 50% и многое другое.

Chapter`ы написаны языком понятным для пользователя любого уровня, поэтому для работы с бизнес системой 6Х6 Вам не нужно быть программистом или иметь опыт работы с компьютером. Более того, если Вы только вчера сели за компьютер и вообще не знаете ничего о работе с ним, то прочитав внимательно главы и поработав некоторое время с бизнес системой 6Х6 Вы вскоре станете продвинутым пользователем, знающим все об операционной системе Windows и Интернете. Кроме того к каждой главе прилагается программа для работы с системой 6Х6 и некоторое количество e-mail`ов.

Список Chapter`ов:

Chapter#1 “Введение в бизнес систему 6Х6. Оптимизация интернет соединения. Рациональное использование интернет времени.”

+20.000 e-mail адресов
+программа для поддержки стабильного соединения с Интернет, автоматического восстановления связи при ее обрывах, дозвоне/разрыве связи в заданное время и запуске дополнительных програм при начале соединения и разрывах связи/перезвонах, и полное описание работы с программой.

Chapter#2 “Как находить 5-20 тысяч e-mail адресов в день, сидя за компьютером 30-40 минут.”

+10.000 e-mail адресов
+программа для автоматического включения/выключения программы для поиска e-mail`ов при соединении/разрыве связи с Интернет, подробно описанная в предыдущей главе.

Chapter#3 “Как обрабатывать найденные e-mail адреса.”

+10.000 e-mail адресов
+программа для автоматического поиска e-mail адресов, подробно описанная в предыдущей главе.

Chapter#4 “Как рассылать по 5-20 тысяч рекламных писем в день, сидя за компьютером все те же 30-40 минут.”

+10.000 e-mail адресов
+программа для быстрой обработки e-mail адресов, подробно описанная в предыдущей главе.

Chapter#5 “Алгоритм работы, или как наиболее эффективно использовать бизнес систему 6Х6.”

+80.000 e-mail адресов (!)
+программа для автоматической рассылки огромного количества рекламных писем с вложениями, подробно описанная в предыдущей главе.

Chapter#6 “Оптимизируем Ваш компьютер, повышаем его производительность на 50%, или как заставить Pentium 166 работать как Pentium II-300.”

+100.000 e-mail адресов (!)
+Серверная часть программы для автоматической рассылки огромного количества рекламных писем с вложениями, подробно описанная в 4-ой главе.

ПРАВИЛА УЧАСТИЯ В ПРОГРАММЕ 6Х6
 
 


Термины:

Мастер – Тищенков Игорь Александрович, основатель бизнес системы;

реферер – участник 6Х6, от которого Вы получили это письмо и у которого Вы должны заказать Chapter;

клиент – хозяин e-mail, на который Вы отправляете письмо;

реферал – участник 6Х6, который заказал у Вас Chapter.

Как работает бизнес система 6Х6
 
 


Для того, чтобы зарабатывать не только с прямых продаж (т.е. когда Вы сами продаете Chapter#1 свои рефералам), но и с продаж своих рефералов (т.е. когда Ваши рефералы приводят Вам покупателей на Chapter#2 - Chapter#6) была разработана следующая система – в рекламном письме содержится такая таблица (т.н. бизнес-таблица):

Chapter#1...............реферер №1
Chapter#2...............реферер №2
Chapter#3...............реферер №3
Chapter#4...............реферер №4
Chapter#5...............реферер №5
Chapter#6...............реферер №6

Напротив каждого Chapter`а стоят реквизиты разных людей, т.е. Вы будете покупать Chapter#1 у реферера №1, Chapter#2 у реферера №2, Chapter#3 у реферера №3, Chapter#4 у реферера №4, Chapter#5 у реферера №5, Chapter#6 у реферера №6. Зарегистрировавшись Вы получите рекламное письмо с бизнес-таблицей, измененной следующим образом:

Chapter#1...............Вы
Chapter#2...............реферер №1
Chapter#3...............реферер №2
Chapter#4...............реферер №3
Chapter#5...............реферер №4
Chapter#6...............реферер №5

И начнете рассылать рекламное письмо с такой бизнес-таблицей. Т.е. Ваши рефералы будут покупать у Вас Chapter#1, у реферера №1 – Chapter#2, у реферера №2 – Chapter#3, у реферера №3 – Chapter#4, у реферера №4 – Chapter#5, у реферера №5 – Chapter#6. Ваши рефералы №1 (те, кто купят у Вас Chapter#1) при регистрации получат рекламное письмо с аналогично преобразованной бизнес-таблицей:

Chapter#1...............реферал №1
Chapter#2...............Вы
Chapter#3...............реферер №1
Chapter#4...............реферер №2
Chapter#5...............реферер №3
Chapter#6...............реферер №4

И начнут рассылать рекламное письмо с такой бизнес-таблицей. Т.е. их рефералы №1 (Ваши рефералы №2) будут покупать Chapter#1 у них (Ваших рефералов №1), Chapter#2 – у Вас, Chapter#3 – у реферера №1, Chapter#4 – у реферера №2, Chapter#5 – у реферера №3, Chapter#6 – у реферера №4. И т.д...

Т.е. таким вот образом Ваши рефералы, привлекая себе клиентов на Chapter#1 будут одновременно привлекать Вам клиентов на Chapter#2 - Chapter#6. Отсюда следует, что прямой задачей каждого участника бизнес системы 6Х6 является привлечение покупателей на Chapter#1 – рефералов №1.

Теперь давайте просто прикинем, сколько денег Вы заработаете если каждый участник привлечет по 10 рефералов №1:

Вы...........................10 Х $6 = $60
Ваши рефералы №1...10 X 10 X $6 = $600
Ваши рефералы №2...10 X 10 X 10 X $6 = $6.000
Ваши рефералы №3...10 X 10 X 10 X 10 X $6 = $60.000
Ваши рефералы №4...10 X 10 X 10 X 10 X 10 X $6 = $600.000
Ваши рефералы №5...10 X 10 X 10 X 10 X 10 X 10 X $6 = $6.000.0000

Т.е. всего Вы заработаете $6.666.660!

Цифра не малая и возможно поэтому у Вас возникнут сомнения. - Вникните в рассчеты и в суть работы системы, просчитайте все сами и Вы получите тот же результат!

Защита от обмана
 
 


Для того, чтобы исключить обрываемость системы была разработана следующая защита:

В рекламное письмо помещается такая бизнес-таблица:

Chapter#1...............регистр. номер реферера №1
Chapter#2...............регистр. номер реферера №2
Chapter#3...............регистр. номер реферера №3
Chapter#4...............регистр. номер реферера №4
Chapter#5...............регистр. номер реферера №5
Chapter#6...............регистр. номер реферера №6

Т.е. клиент к которому пришло это рекламное письмо знает только регистрационные номера рефереров у которых он должен купить Chapter`ы. Купить все Chapter`ы у них напрямую в данный момент он не может так как не знает их реквизитов.

Далее он регистрируется в главной конторе 6Х6 MLM Corporation и получает:

1) Cвой регистрационный номер.

2) Адреса всех рефереров, у которых должен купить Chapter#1 - Chapter#6.

3) Рекламное письмо для рассылки с измененной бизнес-таблицей следующего вида:

Chapter#1...............регистр. номер данного клиента
Chapter#2...............регистр. номер реферера №1
Chapter#3...............регистр. номер реферера №2
Chapter#4...............регистр. номер реферера №3
Chapter#5...............регистр. номер реферера №4
Chapter#6...............регистр. номер реферера №5

покупает все Chapter`ы и начинает рассылку.

Благодаря этой защите, он просто не может оборвать цепь и оставить своих рефереров без причитающейся им прибыли. Ведь цепь может оборваться только тогда, когда их реквизитов не будет в бизнес-таблице. Что возможно, только если он заменит реквизиты всех пяти рефереров своими реквизитами. Чего он сделать просто не может, т.к. для этого ему придется зарегистрироваться еще пять раз, тогда как регистрироваться можно только один раз.
 

ВЫ ГОТОВЫ НАЧАТЬ БИЗНЕС С 6Х6?!
ИТАК, ПРИСТУПАЕМ!
 
 


Внимание! В связи с огромным притоком рефералов с 1/IX-2000 регистрация стала платной и стоит 5 долларов США.

ЧТО ВАМ НЕОБХОДИМО СДЕЛАТЬ:

а) Зарегистрируйтесь в главной конторе 6Х6 MLM Corporation:

1) Напишите на листе бумаги (английскими буквами):

1) Ваши Ф.И.О.,
2) Почтовый адрес для оплаты,
3) Банковские реквизиты для оплаты (необязательно),
4) Ваш e-mail - пишите разборчиво и в дальнейшем используйте его только для связи с главной конторой 6Х6,
5) Находящуюся ниже бизнес-таблицу в регистрационно-номерном виде,
6) Дату отправления письма.

2) Вложите в него $5 и отправьте по почте заказным авиаписьмом на адрес главной конторы 6x6 MLM Corporation:

Igor Tichtchenkov, Laanemere 20-96, 13913 Tallinn, Estonia.

3) В течение недели Вам прийдет (на e-mail, который Вы указали в регистрационной форме) письмо, содержащее:

1) Ваш регистрационный номер.
2) Адреса всех рефереров, у которых Вы должны купить Chapter`ы.
3) Рекламное письмо с измененной бизнес-таблицей, содержащей Ваш регистрационный номер, которое Вы будете рассылать.
4) Необходимые для начала работы инструкции.

б) Сразу купите Chapter`ы в соответствии с бизнес-таблицей:

Глава №
Рег. № Реферера
Chapter#1
6x6-000000-z-001
Chapter#2
Master 6x6
Chapter#3
Master 6x6
Chapter#4
Master 6x6
Chapter#5
Master 6x6
Chapter#6
Master 6x6

ПРИМЕЧАНИЕ! Если в бизнес-таблице несколько или даже все регитрационные номера - Master 6x6, то никакой ошибки в этом нет, просто Вам повезло т.к. присоединившись Вы будете в самом начале бизнес системы - т.е. Ваши шансы на успех максимальны.

Как только Вы это сделаете сразу начинайте рассылку. Подробнее об этом Вы узнаете непосредственно из Chapter`ов. Всего Вам желательно привлечь около 30 рефералов №1 - т.е. продать 30 Chapter#1. Хотя чем больше Вы их привлечете, тем больше прибыли получите.

Постарайтесь рассылать не менее 3.000 рекламных писем в день (со специальными программами, которые Вы получите вместе с Chapter`ами, не составит труда рассылать и по 20.000 писем в день). Если можете больше, рассылайте больше (подробнее в Chapter#5).

О дальнейших шагах Вы узнаете в Chapter`ах. Весь процесс растягивается примерно на 4 месяца со дня начала бизнеса. Если Вы будете четко следовать всем правилам, то вне всяких сомнений будете обладателем нескольких сотен тысяч долларов! Мы знаем, что это будет именно так, и нам остается только поздравить Вас!

А теперь за дело!

Желаем Вам огромных успехов!!!

 
 

Copyright © 2000 6x6 MLM Corporation. All rights reserved.
From chuqui@plaidworks.com Tue Aug 1 05:00:01 2000 From: chuqui@plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach) Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 21:00:01 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Database API In-Reply-To: <3985EB3C.6C846184@leo.gov> References: <3985EB3C.6C846184@leo.gov> Message-ID: > >Here are some issues I am not sure I adderessed or understood. >mixed and lower case mail addr.? technically speaking, the part to the right of the @ is case insensitive. the part to the left of the @ is considered case sensitive. That's how the RFCs define it. In practice, nobody seems to worry about this any more, and is case insensitive across the entire email. What I do now is store the email as it's given to me, but do case-insensitive searches on it (so a user couldn't subscribe both "fred@aol.com and "Fred@aol.com" -- because in practice, while the RFC says they *can* be different people, no mailer with half a brain would try something that loonie any more... >admin approval list should be in database ? I think the whole admin piece needs to be reworked. I've been mulling it over, but haven't written up my thoughts yet (being on vacation in Victoria eating, sleeping and relaxing has slowed my productivity a bit...) -- Chuq Von Rospach - Plaidworks Consulting (mailto:chuqui@plaidworks.com) Apple Mail List Gnome (mailto:chuq@apple.com) And they sit at the bar and put bread in my jar and say 'Man, what are you doing here?'" From dgc@uchicago.edu Tue Aug 1 11:12:18 2000 From: dgc@uchicago.edu (David Champion) Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 05:12:18 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Changing email address Message-ID: <20000801051218.I20937@smack.uchicago.edu> --CgTrtGVSVGoxAIFj Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Right now, I have a big block of text on the options template telling people that to change their subscription address, they must resubscribe/unsubscribe. This is good, because it's a moderately common need, but being able just to change the address is better. 1. Any plans to have an integrated "change of address" facility in the future? Please. 2. Otherwise, any chance that the distributed options template might be patched to include this kind of text? An example diff is attached. -- -D. dgc@uchicago.edu NSIT University of Chicago --CgTrtGVSVGoxAIFj Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="options.diff" *** options.html.orig Wed Jun 23 16:17:34 1999 --- options.html Wed Dec 8 19:04:01 1999 *************** *** 50,55 **** --- 50,75 ----
+ + + + +
+ Changing your e-mail address +
+ There is no direct means of changing your e-mail address. + To receive your mail at a different address, + you must unsubscribe your address + and create a new subscription for your new address. You can usually + do this yourself from the + list information page. + Alternatively, the + list administrator + can handle this for you. +
+
+ +
Your Password --CgTrtGVSVGoxAIFj-- From Nigel.Metheringham@VData.co.uk Tue Aug 1 11:57:07 2000 From: Nigel.Metheringham@VData.co.uk (Nigel Metheringham) Date: Tue, 01 Aug 2000 11:57:07 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Serious qrunner problem with mailman 2.0b4 Message-ID: I made the big mistake of upgrading mailman a few days before going away for most of a week. Of course it all went strange whilst I was away (or more accurately the strangeness became significantly noticeable). What appears to have been happening since a few days following the upgrade from 2.0b2 to 2.0b4 is that the Yahoo Bouncer module started throwing exceptions, which blocked a whole lot of mail in the queue. Some mail went through without any apparent problems, other mail got blocked. For example, digest messages generated on the daily digest flush went out OK, but ones generated due to mail volume (ie asynchronously generated), got stuck in the queue. The error message generated was qrunner(16931): Traceback (innermost last): qrunner(16931): File "/home/mailman/cron/qrunner", line 209, in ? qrunner(16931): kids = main(lock) qrunner(16931): File "/home/mailman/cron/qrunner", line 178, in main qrunner(16931): keepqueued = dispose_message(mlist, msg, msgdata) qrunner(16931): File "/home/mailman/cron/qrunner", line 68, in dispose_message qrunner(16931): if BouncerAPI.ScanMessages(mlist, mimemsg): qrunner(16931): File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Bouncers/BouncerAPI.py", line 54, in ScanMessages qrunner(16931): addrs = func(msg) qrunner(16931): File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Bouncers/Yahoo.py", line 31, in process qrunner(16931): if string.lower(msg.get('from')) <> 'mailer-daemon@yahoo.com': I twiddled Yahoo.py slightly but couldn't quite see the problem, so finally removed it from the Bounce API stuff, and the queue then unblocked itself. Nigel. -- [ - Opinions expressed are personal and may not be shared by VData - ] [ Nigel Metheringham Nigel.Metheringham@VData.co.uk ] [ Phone: +44 1423 850000 Fax +44 1423 858866 ] From jmackenzie@local.ie Tue Aug 1 14:17:17 2000 From: jmackenzie@local.ie (John MacKenzie) Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 14:17:17 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Latest CVS , Any major differences? Message-ID: <00080114184202.00902@samsara.local.ie> Hey guys, Just wondering if there are any major changes in the Latest CVS compared to b4 to warrant an update? Also wondering on the approximate release date of b5 ? Regards - John -- John MacKenzie | Unix Systems Admin | e: mailto:jmackenzie@local.ie ___________________________________________________________________ Stay in touch your local area through Local Ireland http://chat.local.ie/chat/index.html ___________________________________________________________________ local ireland | dublin | new york | http://www.local.ie t: +353 1 676 8996 f: +353 1 283 9988 From bwarsaw@beopen.com Tue Aug 1 18:44:24 2000 From: bwarsaw@beopen.com (Barry A. Warsaw) Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 13:44:24 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Serious qrunner problem with mailman 2.0b4 References: Message-ID: <14727.3192.682329.943981@anthem.concentric.net> >>>>> "NM" == Nigel Metheringham writes: NM> I twiddled Yahoo.py slightly but couldn't quite see the NM> problem, so finally removed it from the Bounce API stuff, and NM> the queue then unblocked itself. It's possible the message had no From: header. Here's a patch. -Barry -------------------- snip snip -------------------- Index: Yahoo.py =================================================================== RCS file: /cvsroot/mailman/mailman/Mailman/Bouncers/Yahoo.py,v retrieving revision 1.4 diff -u -r1.4 Yahoo.py --- Yahoo.py 2000/06/05 15:54:47 1.4 +++ Yahoo.py 2000/08/01 17:42:08 @@ -28,7 +28,7 @@ def process(msg): # yahoo bounces seem to have a known subject value and something called an # x-uidl header, the value of which seems unimportant - if string.lower(msg.get('from')) <> 'mailer-daemon@yahoo.com': + if string.lower(msg.get('from', '')) <> 'mailer-daemon@yahoo.com': return None msg.rewindbody() addrs = [] From Ricardo Kustner Tue Aug 1 23:22:42 2000 From: Ricardo Kustner (Ricardo Kustner) Date: 01 Aug 2000 22:22:42 CEST Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Database API In-Reply-To: <3985EB3C.6C846184@leo.gov> References: <3985EB3C.6C846184@leo.gov> Message-ID: <200008012022.WAA01939@smtp9.xs4all.nl> Hi, On Mon, 31 Jul 2000 17:10:20 -0400, Andy Lowe said: > Here is my first draft of multiple back end support for Mailman. > I believe that everything else can be handled by the frontend > Here are some issues I am not sure I adderessed or understood. > mixed and lower case mail addr.? > logging? > admin approval list should be in database ? in the end maybe, but i guess there's no hurry with it... i think the held back messages should be kept on disk though > key names. In addition each new version of the backend can check the > marshal file, or database table or whatever and if it finds an older > version, use an upgrade method or function to bring the old list up to > date using the defaults for the site. this can be quite complicated... unless you're really carefull and not make too many big changes; if you have 5 different versions the latest version needs to do all those steps one by one... > I apoligize for the crudness of this outline, and I am interested to see > everyones suggestions. well it look ok to me... at the moment i can't think of much to add to your outline... have you thought about how/where you want to do the development? i'd like to help out if necessary.... Ricardo. -- http://rixhq.nu "You think that's air you're breathing?" -- Morpheus From darrell@grumblesmurf.net Tue Aug 1 21:40:50 2000 From: darrell@grumblesmurf.net (Darrell Fuhriman) Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 13:40:50 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Database API In-Reply-To: <200008012022.WAA01939@smtp9.xs4all.nl> Message-ID: > well it look ok to me... at the moment i can't think of much to add to your > outline... The big thing I can think of would be to add in backend support into pipermail. It would be neat to be able to store archives in a database. Even neater would be to integrate UDMsearch (or similar) into the mix, so mailman became an all in one mail-list processor/archiver/indexer/search engine with a database backend. :) Darrell From Dan.Mick@west.sun.com Wed Aug 2 02:06:38 2000 From: Dan.Mick@west.sun.com (Dan Mick) Date: Tue, 01 Aug 2000 18:06:38 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Latest CVS wad has one thing missing: admin.py Message-ID: <3987741E.B29B6CD4@west.sun.com> Barry put back a wad of stuff in response to a bug of mine, but there's one nit wrong in it; I've notified Barry, but in case anyone else brings over the latest CVS, this is not yet in the tree as of right now: Index: Mailman/Cgi/admin.py =================================================================== RCS file: /cvsroot/mailman/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/admin.py,v retrieving revision 1.72 diff -r1.72 admin.py 545c545 < url = mlist.GetScriptURL('admin', relative=1) --- > url = mlist.GetScriptURL('admin') From Dan.Mick@west.sun.com Wed Aug 2 02:53:02 2000 From: Dan.Mick@west.sun.com (Dan Mick) Date: Tue, 01 Aug 2000 18:53:02 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Latest CVS wad has one thing missing: admin.py References: <3987741E.B29B6CD4@west.sun.com> Message-ID: <39877EFE.962085DA@west.sun.com> ....and now it is in CVS. Dan Mick wrote: > > Barry put back a wad of stuff in response to a bug of mine, but there's one > nit wrong in it; I've notified Barry, but in case anyone else brings over > the latest CVS, this is not yet in the tree as of right now: > > Index: Mailman/Cgi/admin.py > =================================================================== > RCS file: /cvsroot/mailman/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/admin.py,v > retrieving revision 1.72 > diff -r1.72 admin.py > 545c545 > < url = mlist.GetScriptURL('admin', relative=1) > --- > > url = mlist.GetScriptURL('admin') From bwarsaw@beopen.com Wed Aug 2 05:32:32 2000 From: bwarsaw@beopen.com (Barry A. Warsaw) Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 00:32:32 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Mailman 2.0 beta 5 Message-ID: <14727.42080.119761.425152@anthem.concentric.net> Folks, I've just released Mailman 2.0 beta 5. This is an important bug fix release that should once and for all solve the "cookie re-authentication" bug. It also fixes a small security hole that could be exploited by clever local users to gain group mailman permission. As usual, you can get the tarball from SourceForge http://download.sourceforge.net/mailman/mailman-2.0beta5.tgz or list.org http://www.list.org/mailman.tar.gz or (soon) ftp.gnu.org ftp://ftp.gnu.org/gnu/mailman/mailman-2.0beta5.tgz Please let me know how it goes for you. Remember to use the SourceForge bug tracker for reporting bugs NOT the old Jitterbug database on python.org (which I cannot shut off right now). Also, patches should be uploaded to the SourceForge patch manager. Enjoy, -Barry From fuzzy@fuzzydice.net Wed Aug 2 05:51:30 2000 From: fuzzy@fuzzydice.net (Adam Kennedy (Fuzzy Logic)) Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 23:51:30 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Re: [Mailman-Announce] Mailman 2.0 beta 5 In-Reply-To: <14727.42080.119761.425152@anthem.concentric.net> Message-ID: um, when you click on admin overview page, it comes up as domain/admin.cgi instead of domain/mailman/admin.cgi that an oops or is that my fault? -------------------------- Adam Kennedy (Fuzzy Logic) fuzzy@fuzzydice.net -------------------------- -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.12 GCS d- s: a--- C++++ UL++++ P+ L++++ E--- W++ N o-- K- w--- O-- M-- V-- PS PE Y PGP- t 5+ X+ R tv+++ b+ DI+ D+ G+ e- h++ r-- z- ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ "Life and death are seldom logical." "But attaining a desired goal always is." -- McCoy and Spock, "The Galileo Seven", stardate 2821.7 From fuzzy@fuzzydice.net Wed Aug 2 05:54:16 2000 From: fuzzy@fuzzydice.net (Adam Kennedy (Fuzzy Logic)) Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 23:54:16 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Re: [Mailman-Announce] Mailman 2.0 beta 5 In-Reply-To: <14727.42080.119761.425152@anthem.concentric.net> Message-ID: btw, same thing if your in admin.cgi and you click mailing list overview, it goes to domain/listinfo.cgi instead of domain/mailman/listinfo.cgi =) -------------------------- Adam Kennedy (Fuzzy Logic) fuzzy@fuzzydice.net -------------------------- -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.12 GCS d- s: a--- C++++ UL++++ P+ L++++ E--- W++ N o-- K- w--- O-- M-- V-- PS PE Y PGP- t 5+ X+ R tv+++ b+ DI+ D+ G+ e- h++ r-- z- ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ "Life and death are seldom logical." "But attaining a desired goal always is." -- McCoy and Spock, "The Galileo Seven", stardate 2821.7 From Dan.Mick@west.sun.com Wed Aug 2 06:17:39 2000 From: Dan.Mick@west.sun.com (Dan Mick) Date: Tue, 01 Aug 2000 22:17:39 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Re: [Mailman-Announce] Mailman 2.0 beta 5 References: Message-ID: <3987AEF3.B28E184@west.sun.com> "Adam Kennedy (Fuzzy Logic)" wrote: > > btw, same thing if your in admin.cgi and you click mailing list overview, > it goes to domain/listinfo.cgi instead of domain/mailman/listinfo.cgi I don't know what "admin overview" is (from your first message) but it sounds like your base URL doesn't include '/mailman/'. True? (Base URL at the bottom of General Options on admin// URL...) From chuqui@plaidworks.com Wed Aug 2 06:11:07 2000 From: chuqui@plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach) Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 22:11:07 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Database API In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: At 1:40 PM -0700 8/1/00, Darrell Fuhriman wrote: >The big thing I can think of would be to add in backend support into >pipermail. It would be neat to be able to store archives in a database. > > basically, every module should be an API, so that anything you want to do, you do by writing an interface to the API. You'd no longer have a pipermail interface, but an archive API, which can be called 0...N times, one for each instance of an archive. Ditto subscriptions, ditto everything else.... -- Chuq Von Rospach - Plaidworks Consulting (mailto:chuqui@plaidworks.com) Apple Mail List Gnome (mailto:chuq@apple.com) And they sit at the bar and put bread in my jar and say 'Man, what are you doing here?'" From jmackenzie@local.ie Wed Aug 2 11:56:50 2000 From: jmackenzie@local.ie (John MacKenzie) Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 11:56:50 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Still Getting issues with windows clients and lockfiles Message-ID: <00080212025807.00902@samsara.local.ie> Hey Folks , Just to let you know that Even after upgrading to 2.0b5 I'm still experiencing this issue. Incase you need a reminder of the issue... Basically lockfiles don't appear to be expiring, also Windows browsers attempting to view the lists are getting internal server error messages , while my Linux Netscape works fine (after I've manually deleted the lock) Barry, Not sure if you've got time to look at this but if you do , You're more than welcome to shell access. Regards - John -- John MacKenzie | Unix Systems Admin | e: mailto:jmackenzie@local.ie ___________________________________________________________________ Stay in touch your local area through Local Ireland http://chat.local.ie/chat/index.html ___________________________________________________________________ local ireland | dublin | new york | http://www.local.ie t: +353 1 676 8996 f: +353 1 283 9988 From jam@jamux.com Wed Aug 2 13:02:44 2000 From: jam@jamux.com (John A. Martin) Date: Wed, 02 Aug 2000 08:02:44 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Re: [Mailman-Announce] Mailman 2.0 beta 5 In-Reply-To: <14727.42080.119761.425152@anthem.concentric.net> (Barry A. Warsaw; Wed, 02 Aug 2000 00:32:32 -0400) Message-ID: <20000802120244.6EF6B4800A@athene.jamux.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 >>>>> "BAW" == Barry A Warsaw >>>>> "[Mailman-Announce] Mailman 2.0 beta 5" >>>>> Wed, 2 Aug 2000 00:32:32 -0400 (EDT) BAW> It also fixes a small security hole that could be exploited BAW> by clever local users to gain group mailman permission. Hmm... would it be prudent to omit the version number from the default mailman logo so as not to, in effect, advertise so blatantly which vulnerabilities are running? jam -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: By Mailcrypt 3.5.5 using Gnu Privacy Guard iEYEARECAAYFAjmIDdgACgkQUEvv1b/iXy+oCACfW5iJvhd61nqb3x9TYv2T4mZr jL4AmgLhngnow1wwZPV1MzjQxrA7fADx =8dxW -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From paul@exit1.com Wed Aug 2 15:42:24 2000 From: paul@exit1.com (Paul Hyland) Date: Wed, 02 Aug 2000 10:42:24 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Re: [Mailman-Announce] Mailman 2.0 beta 5 In-Reply-To: <14727.42080.119761.425152@anthem.concentric.net> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20000802103341.0212e2e0@mail.exit2000.com> Hi Barry, I take it that even though this is called beta, it is the recommended version of Mailman. I have the correct version of python, comes w/ Redhat 6.1. BTW, on the pythonlabs website, the link to your home page at python.org no longer works, gives a 404... Seeya Friday? Paul At 12:32 AM 8/2/00 -0400, you wrote: >Folks, > >I've just released Mailman 2.0 beta 5. This is an important bug fix >release that should once and for all solve the "cookie >re-authentication" bug. It also fixes a small security hole that >could be exploited by clever local users to gain group mailman >permission. > >As usual, you can get the tarball from SourceForge > > http://download.sourceforge.net/mailman/mailman-2.0beta5.tgz > >or list.org > > http://www.list.org/mailman.tar.gz > >or (soon) ftp.gnu.org > > ftp://ftp.gnu.org/gnu/mailman/mailman-2.0beta5.tgz > >Please let me know how it goes for you. Remember to use the >SourceForge bug tracker for reporting bugs NOT the old Jitterbug >database on python.org (which I cannot shut off right now). Also, >patches should be uploaded to the SourceForge patch manager. > >Enjoy, >-Barry > >_______________________________________________ >Mailman-announce mailing list >Mailman-announce@python.org >http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-announce Paul Hyland paul@exit1.com http://www.exit1.com/~paul From ajlowe@leo.gov Wed Aug 2 21:03:57 2000 From: ajlowe@leo.gov (Andy Lowe) Date: Wed, 02 Aug 2000 16:03:57 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Database API Message-ID: <39887EAD.D4A14E1B@leo.gov> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------0283E4FACABE8798B84D7F1E Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit OK, assuming we have a working draft for the database API, how do we go about developing this? I see this project seriously breaking mailman for a while until everything gets synced up. Do we want to create a separate branch in CVS? Or do we want to just put it on an ftp site I can provide. The only problem with CVS is that I am behind a very restrictive firewall and can basically only get http/https/ftp access to the internet, so I would prefer to use ftp, or http enabled CVS. Does SourceForge allow you to checkout via https? I don't think so. Ricardo an I are interested in coding this project, how about anyone else? I have already started working on the oracle module, and I am guessing that Ricardo will want to do MySQL and or MS-SQL . I think the other parts necessary include changing the current mailman code to fit the API and breaking the Marshal code out of the current Mailman code. Perhaps the 'changing the mailman' aspect could be broken down further into changing each of the current modules like Maillist etc. . . It appears to me that we are ready to break off into a smaller developers group and start cranking out some code. What I don't know is whether normal mailman development will continue and or how we should integrate the API enhanced version of Mailman back into the normal development once complete. Any suggestions? A. L. --------------0283E4FACABE8798B84D7F1E Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="ajlowe.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Andy Lowe Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="ajlowe.vcf" begin:vcard n:Lowe;Andy x-mozilla-html:FALSE org:Law Enforcement Online adr:;;;;;; version:2.1 email;internet:ajlowe@leo.gov title:Network Engineer x-mozilla-cpt:;0 fn:Andy Lowe end:vcard --------------0283E4FACABE8798B84D7F1E-- From bwarsaw@beopen.com Wed Aug 2 22:49:55 2000 From: bwarsaw@beopen.com (Barry A. Warsaw) Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 17:49:55 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 2.0 beta 5 References: <14727.42080.119761.425152@anthem.concentric.net> <200008021533.e72FXMt24784@xerxes.courtesan.com> Message-ID: <14728.38787.132425.78616@anthem.concentric.net> >>>>> "TCM" == Todd C Miller writes: | In message <14727.42080.119761.425152@anthem.concentric.net> | so spake (bwarsaw): TCM> Just in case this bites anyone else, I ran into problems TCM> because I had set DEFAULT_URL to a value that did not end in TCM> '/'. This worked fine up up to and including beta 4 but with TCM> beta 5 it broke Utils.ScriptURL. Adding a trailing slash TCM> made things much happier (but I had to read Utils.ScriptURL TCM> to guess why :-). I had a sneaking suspicion about that. I'll make sure there's a more robust solution in the next release. -Barry From webweave@yeah.net Thu Aug 3 04:09:43 2000 From: webweave@yeah.net (webweave) Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2000 11:09:43 +0800 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] I want to ask some questions about Default.py Message-ID: <004101bffcf8$48634ee0$3401a8c0@sowen.gzetang.com> SGVsbG8gQWxsOg0KICAgIEkgd2FudCB0byBhc2sgc29tZSBxdWVzdGlvbnMgYWJvdXQgbWFpbG1h bi4NCiAgICANCiAgICBJbiBEZWZhdWx0LnB5IEkgZm91bmQgdHdvIGtpbmRzIG9mIERFTElWRVJZ X01vdWRsZS5XaGF0J3MgZGlmZmVyZW50IGJldHdlZW4gIlNlbmRtYWlsIiBhbmQgIlNUTVBEaXJl Y3QiPyBEbyBhbnlvbmUgdGhpbmsgaXQgaXMgcG9zc2JpbGUgdGhhdCBtYWlsbWFuIGNhbiB3b3Jr IHdpdGggRXhjaGFuZ2UgU2VydmVyPw0KICAgIEkgdHJpZWQgdG8gY2hhbmdlICJTTVRQSE9TVD1s b2NhbGhvc3QiIHRvICJTTVRQSE9TVD0xOTIuMTY4LjEuMjU0Iix3aGljaCBpcyBhbm90aGVyIGxp bnV4IG1hY2hpbmUgd2l0aCBzZW5kbWFpbCBzZXJ2aWNlLlRoZSBEZWxpdmVyeV9Nb3VkZWwgc3Rp bGwgd2FzICJTTVRQRGlyZWN0IixidXQgdGhlIG1haWxtYW4gY2FuJ3Qgd29yayBwcm9wZXJseSxJ IGNhbid0IHJlY2VpdmUgYW55IGxldHRlciBmcm9tIG15IG93biBtYWlsaW5nIGxpc3QuSG93IGNh biBJIHNldCBTTVRQIFNlcnZlciB0byBhbm90aGVyIG1hY2hpbmU/DQogICAgQXQgbGFzdCxJIHdh bnQgdG8ga25vdyx3aGF0IGlzIHRoZSBTTVRQcG9ydCBtZWFuPyBJcyBpdCBQT1A/IHdoeSBub3Qg MjU/DQoNClBscyBIZWxwIG1lLiBeXikNCkJlc3QgUmVnYXJkcyENClNvd2VuDQo= From Dan Mick Thu Aug 3 04:19:32 2000 From: Dan Mick (Dan Mick) Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 20:19:32 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Mailman-Developers] I want to ask some questions about Default.py Message-ID: <200008030318.UAA20894@utopia.west.sun.com> > In Default.py I found two kinds of DELIVERY_Moudle.What's different between "Sendmail" and "STMPDirect"? Did you read the comments like the comment in Defaults.py said to? Read the front part of Handlers/Sendmail.py and Handlers/SMTPDirect.py. > Do anyone think it is possbile that mailman can work with Exchange Server? Sure, assuming Exchange Server speaks SMTP. > I tried to change "SMTPHOST=localhost" to "SMTPHOST=192.168.1.254",which is another linux machine with sendmail service.The Delivery_Moudel still was "SMTPDirect",but the mailman can't work properly,I can't receive any letter from my own mailing list.How can I set SMTP Server to another machine? That might work, but without some sort of details about "can't work properly" (did it explode? Did you see Satan? Did it start oozing butterscotch pudding?) it's hard to say. > At last,I want to know,what is the SMTPport mean? The port on which SMTP runs. > Is it POP? No, SMTP is not POP. > why not 25? If you mean "Why does Defaults.py set it to 0 instead of 25", the comment on that same line is a big clue: SMTPPORT = 0 # default from smtplib I haven't read the code in smtplib, but it seems to me that says "get the default value from smtplib". By golly, reading smtplib.py gives the answer again: If specified, `port' specifies the port to which to connect. By default, smtplib.SMTP_PORT is used. From Ricardo Kustner Thu Aug 3 08:47:13 2000 From: Ricardo Kustner (Ricardo Kustner) Date: 03 Aug 2000 07:47:13 CEST Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Database API In-Reply-To: <39887EAD.D4A14E1B@leo.gov> References: <39887EAD.D4A14E1B@leo.gov> Message-ID: <200008030547.HAA19112@smtp1.xs4all.nl> Hi, On Wed, 02 Aug 2000 16:03:57 -0400, Andy Lowe said: [sourceforge/cvs] > OK, assuming we have a working draft for the database API, how do we go > Does SourceForge allow you to checkout via https? I don't think so No it looks like they only support pserver through ssh. You don't have ssh access through your firewall? i think there's a ftp add-on for cvs server; we could setup repos. somewhere else From Ricardo Kustner Thu Aug 3 08:53:44 2000 From: Ricardo Kustner (Ricardo Kustner) Date: 03 Aug 2000 07:53:44 CEST Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Database API In-Reply-To: <200008030547.HAA19112@smtp1.xs4all.nl> References: <39887EAD.D4A14E1B@leo.gov> <200008030547.HAA19112@smtp1.xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <200008030553.HAA20261@smtp8.xs4all.nl> On 03 Aug 2000 07:47:13 CEST, Ricardo Kustner said: > Hi, > > On Wed, 02 Aug 2000 16:03:57 -0400, Andy Lowe said: > > [sourceforge/cvs] > > OK, assuming we have a working draft for the database API, how do we go > > Does SourceForge allow you to checkout via https? I don't think so > No it looks like they only support pserver through ssh. You don't have ssh > access > through your firewall? > i think there's a ftp add-on for cvs server; we could setup repos. somewhere > else hey where did the rest of my message go? well i'll re-write it tonight... i have to rush for work now... Ricardo.. -- http://rixhq.nu "You think that's air you're breathing?" -- Morpheus From jeremy@beopen.com Thu Aug 3 17:11:44 2000 From: jeremy@beopen.com (Jeremy Hylton) Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2000 12:11:44 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Database API In-Reply-To: <33660711@toto.iv> Message-ID: <14729.39360.535677.987013@bitdiddle.concentric.net> I am also interested in breaking up the way Mailman stores information about lists and subscribers. I'd like the database API to be a bit more general, however. There are a number of groups interested in using LDAP to store subscriber names. Some people are interested in using Zope/ZODB, too, although I happen to think that mailing list subscriber data is embarassingly rectangular. I think the right approach is to write up a good architecture document that describes what data Mailman needs to store and what APIs can be used to plug in different storage technologies. Let's get buy-in from people interested in RDBMS, ZODB, and LDAP before we start writing code. Once a good architecture document is in place and Barry releases 2.0 final, we could probably convince him to allow major revisions to the CVS repository without branching. Jeremy From wheakory@isu.edu Thu Aug 3 19:02:48 2000 From: wheakory@isu.edu (Kory Wheatley) Date: Thu, 03 Aug 2000 12:02:48 -0600 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Re: [Mailman-Announce] Mailman 2.0 beta 5 References: <14727.42080.119761.425152@anthem.concentric.net> Message-ID: <3989B3C8.9F00B1A7@isu.edu> "Barry A. Warsaw" wrote: > Folks, > > I've just released Mailman 2.0 beta 5. This is an important bug fix > release that should once and for all solve the "cookie > re-authentication" bug. It also fixes a small security hole that > could be exploited by clever local users to gain group mailman > permission. > > As usual, you can get the tarball from SourceForge > > http://download.sourceforge.net/mailman/mailman-2.0beta5.tgz > > or list.org > > http://www.list.org/mailman.tar.gz > > or (soon) ftp.gnu.org > > ftp://ftp.gnu.org/gnu/mailman/mailman-2.0beta5.tgz > > Please let me know how it goes for you. Remember to use the > SourceForge bug tracker for reporting bugs NOT the old Jitterbug > database on python.org (which I cannot shut off right now). Also, > patches should be uploaded to the SourceForge patch manager. > > Enjoy, > -Barry > > _______________________________________________ > Mailman-announce mailing list > Mailman-announce@python.org > http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-announce Question how do I delete a message out of mailman that just keeps resending over and over, it a 4.3mb message and it keeps sending to a mail server user account who is over their quota I am running Sendmail as my MTA. -- ######################################### Kory Wheatley Academic Computing Analyst Sr. Phone 282-3874 ######################################### Everything must point to him. From bwarsaw@beopen.com Thu Aug 3 20:01:12 2000 From: bwarsaw@beopen.com (Barry A. Warsaw) Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2000 15:01:12 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Re: [Mailman-Announce] Mailman 2.0 beta 5 References: <14727.42080.119761.425152@anthem.concentric.net> <3989B3C8.9F00B1A7@isu.edu> Message-ID: <14729.49528.611981.499078@anthem.concentric.net> >>>>> "KW" == Kory Wheatley writes: KW> Question how do I delete a message out of mailman that just KW> keeps resending over and over, it a 4.3mb message and it keeps KW> sending to a mail server user account who is over their quota KW> I am running Sendmail as my MTA. Their account is probably giving you a temporary error code during the smtp transaction. Mailman will eventually time those deliveries out and zap them, but you can also just go into the qfiles/ directory, find the offending message and delete the appropriate .msg and .db files. Use cat on the .msg file and bin/dumpdb on the .db file to find out some interesting information. -Barry From ajlowe@leo.gov Thu Aug 3 21:53:08 2000 From: ajlowe@leo.gov (Andy Lowe) Date: Thu, 03 Aug 2000 16:53:08 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Database API References: <14729.39360.535677.987013@bitdiddle.concentric.net> Message-ID: <3989DBB4.A61FF137@leo.gov> I have found a way around my firewall, so cvs should not be an issue any longer. Jeremy Hylton wrote: > > I am also interested in breaking up the way Mailman stores information > about lists and subscribers. I'd like the database API to be a bit > more general, however. There are a number of groups interested in > using LDAP to store subscriber names. Some people are interested in > using Zope/ZODB, too, although I happen to think that mailing list > subscriber data is embarassingly rectangular. I agree with you completely, and I attempted to do that. I think a LDAP backend to the currently proposed API would be fine, and as I said, I am not very familiar with Zope, but as I understand it Zope is basically a web site in a database. This makes me think Zope would work as well. Do you have any suggestions as to how we could make the API more general? I am all for it. > > I think the right approach is to write up a good architecture document > that describes what data Mailman needs to store and what APIs can be > used to plug in different storage technologies. Let's get buy-in from > people interested in RDBMS, ZODB, and LDAP before we start writing > code. I theoretically agree with the above statement. My problem is that my boss says I have to have something which at least functions on our site by the 9th of August :). I think that may be a bit unrealistic, but I am going to to my best to have something done by then. I have tried to write a rough architecture document, and I would love some help on it. I am inexperienced in this arena and would love to hear from those of you who know more about mailman and can better describe what data mailman needs and how the API should be set up. As for ZODB and LDAP, I am all for people interested in those backends giving input. I have failed to find anyone interest in helping with them yet. Any takers? > Once a good architecture document is in place and Barry releases 2.0 > final, we could probably convince him to allow major revisions to the > CVS repository without branching. Yet again I agree, but I am on a very tight schedule. Perhaps I should just hack something together for my sight while we wait for the final release of 2.0 I am guessing that something like the backend API is close to being worthy of a major version number, and would result in a fork in the code anyways (where the 2.0 series continues to fix bugs etc. . . until the first alpha in the next version is released) In the meantime I will rewrite / clean up the API architecture document to solve approach the problem from the point of mailman data needs. A. L. From zhang.hong@etang.net Fri Aug 4 05:06:45 2000 From: zhang.hong@etang.net (sowen) Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2000 12:06:45 +0800 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Show the mailing list content on web Message-ID: <013901bffdc9$6f289e50$3401a8c0@sowen.gzetang.com> SGksQWxsOg0KDQpEbyBhbnlvbmUga25vdyBob3cgdG8gc2hvdyB0aGUgbWFpbGluZyBsaXN0IGNv bnRlbnQgb24gd2ViPw0KSWYgSSB3YW50IHRvIG1ha2UgYSBpbnRlcmZhY2UgbGlrZSBPVVRMT09L IHRvIHNob3cgbWFpbGluZ19saXN0IG5hbWUsIG1haWxpbmdfbGlzdCBhcnRpY2FsIHRpdGxlIGFu ZCBtYWlsaW5nX2xpc3QgY29udGVudCwgY2FuIEkgdXNlIHNvbWUgZXhpc3RlbnQgY2xhc3MgaW4g TWFpbG1hbiB0byBkbyB0aGF0Pw0KDQoNCkJlc3QgUmVnYXJkcyENClNvd2VuDQo= From webweave@yeah.net Fri Aug 4 05:07:47 2000 From: webweave@yeah.net (sowen) Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2000 12:07:47 +0800 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Show the mailing list content on web Message-ID: <014b01bffdc9$8f5995d0$3401a8c0@sowen.gzetang.com> SGksQWxsOg0KDQpEbyBhbnlvbmUga25vdyBob3cgdG8gc2hvdyB0aGUgbWFpbGluZyBsaXN0IGNv bnRlbnQgb24gd2ViPw0KSWYgSSB3YW50IHRvIG1ha2UgYSBpbnRlcmZhY2UgbGlrZSBPVVRMT09L IHRvIHNob3cgbWFpbGluZ19saXN0IG5hbWUsIG1haWxpbmdfbGlzdCBhcnRpY2FsIHRpdGxlIGFu ZCBtYWlsaW5nX2xpc3QgY29udGVudCwgY2FuIEkgdXNlIHNvbWUgZXhpc3RlbnQgY2xhc3MgaW4g TWFpbG1hbiB0byBkbyB0aGF0Pw0KDQoNCkJlc3QgUmVnYXJkcyENClNvd2VuDQo= From Nigel.Metheringham@VData.co.uk Fri Aug 4 09:16:04 2000 From: Nigel.Metheringham@VData.co.uk (Nigel Metheringham) Date: Fri, 04 Aug 2000 09:16:04 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Re: [Mailman-Announce] Mailman 2.0 beta 5 In-Reply-To: Message from Kory Wheatley of "Thu, 03 Aug 2000 12:02:48 MDT." <3989B3C8.9F00B1A7@isu.edu> Message-ID: wheakory@isu.edu said: > Question how do I delete a message out of mailman that just keeps > resending over and over, it a 4.3mb message and it keeps sending to a > mail server user account who is over their quota I am running Sendmail > as my MTA. Are you sure its *mailman* doing this? Mailman would not get involved in resending mail to a user whose MTA temporarily (or permanently) rejected a mail - that should be done by the MTA. Check whether this message is in your sendmail queue and dispose of it appropriately (not sure how as a non sendmail user). Nigel. -- [ - Opinions expressed are personal and may not be shared by VData - ] [ Nigel Metheringham Nigel.Metheringham@VData.co.uk ] [ Phone: +44 1423 850000 Fax +44 1423 858866 ] From webweave@yeah.net Tue Aug 8 07:09:40 2000 From: webweave@yeah.net (sowen) Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2000 14:09:40 +0800 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Distribute question! Message-ID: <017901c000ff$3d1b1760$3401a8c0@sowen.gzetang.com> aGksQWxsOg0KICAgIEkgaGF2ZSBhIHF1ZXN0aW9uIG9uIGRpc3RyaWJ1dGluZyB0aGUgU01UUCBT ZXJ2ZXIgYW5kIHRoZSBXZWIgU2VydmVyIHRvIHR3byBtYWNoaW5lcy5UaGUgbWFpbG1hbiBpbnN0 YWxsZWQgb24gdGhlIG1hY2hpbmUgMTkyLjE2OC4xLjIsYSBSZWRoYXQgbGludXggd2hpY2ggaGFz IEFwYWNoZSBhbmQgU2VuZG1haWwgU2VydmljZS5FdmVyeXRoaW5nIHdhcyBPSyB3aGVuIHRoZSBT TVRQIFNlcnZlciBhbmQgdGhlIFdlYiBTZXJ2ZXIgYWxsIGZvY3VzZWQgb24gdGhlIDE5Mi4xNjgu MS4yLkkgY291bGQgcmVjZWl2ZSBjb25maXJtIGVtYWlsIGZyb20gbXkgbWFpbGluZ2xpc3QuTm8g ZXJyb3IgZm91bmQgaW4gdGhlIGxvZyBmaWxlcy4NCiAgICBCdXQgaWYgSSBjaGFuZ2VkIHRoZSBT TVRQIFNlcnZlciB0byBhbm90aGVyIFJlZGhhdCBMaW51eCx3aGljaCBoYXMgU2VuZG1haWwgU2Vy dmljZSB0b28sc29tZXRoaW5nIHdyb25nIG5vdy4odGhlIGNoYW5nZSBtZWFuZWQgdGhhdCBJIG1v ZGlmaWVkIHRoZSBEZWZhdWx0cy5weSxJIHNldCBTTVRQSE9TVD0iMTkyLjE2OC4xLjI1NCIpDQog ICAgSSBmb3VuZCB0aGUgbG9nIGZpbGUgb2YgMTkyLjE2OC4xLjI1NCBpbiB2YXIvbG9nL21haWxv Zy4NCiAgICBJdCBoYXBwZW5lZCB3aGVuIEkgc3Vic2NyaWJlZCB0aGUgbWFpbGluZyBsaXN0LkFu ZCBJIGFsc28gZm91bmQgdGhhdCB0aGUgbWFpbG1hbidzIGNyb24gam9iIHN0aWxsIHVzZWQgdGhl IDE5Mi4xNjguMS4yIHRvIHNlbmRtYWlsLGV2ZW4gSSBzZW50IHRoZSBTTVRQIFNlcnZlciB0byAx OTIuMTY4LjEuMjU0Lg0KDQp0aGUgZXJyb3IgbG9nIGRldGFpbCBpbiAxOTIuMTY4LjEuMjU0IGlz Og0KLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t LS0tLS0tDQpBdWcgIDcgMTE6NTU6MzIgYWRzbDIgc2VuZG1haWxbMTQ4MDBdOiBMQUExNDgwMDog cnVsZXNldD1jaGVja19yY3B0LCBhcmcxPTxzb3dlbmNAY2hpbmFyZW4uY29tPiwgcmVsYXk9SURF TlQ6bm9ib2R5QFsxOTIuMTY4LjEuMl0sIHJlamVjdD01NTAgPHNvd2VuY0BjaGluYXJlbi5jb20+ Li4uIFJlbGF5aW5nIGRlbmllZA0KQXVnICA3IDExOjU1OjMyIGFkc2wyIHNlbmRtYWlsWzE0ODAw XTogTEFBMTQ4MDA6IGZyb209PG5ld3MtYWRtaW5AbGludXg+LCBzaXplPTEzNTcsIGNsYXNzPTAs IHByaT0wLCBucmNwdHM9MCwgcHJvdG89RVNNVFAsIHJlbGF5PUlERU5UOm5vYm9keUBbMTkyLjE2 OC4xLjJdDQpBdWcgIDcgMTE6NTc6MTEgYWRzbDIgc2VuZG1haWxbMTQ4MDJdOiBMQUExNDgwMjog cnVsZXNldD1jaGVja19yY3B0LCBhcmcxPTxzb3dlbkAyNjMubmV0PiwgcmVsYXk9SURFTlQ6bm9i b2R5QFsxOTIuMTY4LjEuMl0sIHJlamVjdD01NTAgPHNvd2VuQDI2My5uZXQ+Li4uIFJlbGF5aW5n IGRlbmllZA0KQXVnICA3IDExOjU3OjExIGFkc2wyIHNlbmRtYWlsWzE0ODAyXTogTEFBMTQ4MDI6 IGZyb209PG5ld3MtYWRtaW5AbGludXg+LCBzaXplPTEwMDIsIGNsYXNzPTAsIHByaT0wLCBucmNw dHM9MCwgcHJvdG89RVNNVFAsIHJlbGF5PUlERU5UOm5vYm9keUBbMTkyLjE2OC4xLjJdDQotLS0t LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0N Cg0KdGhlIGVycm9yIGxvZyBpbiAxOTIuMTY4LjEuMiBpczoNCi0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t LS0tDQpBdWcgIDYgMTQ6MzU6MjMgbGludXggc2VuZG1haWxbMTc1MDZdOiBMQUEwMjIyMTogdG89 PHNvd2VuQHllYWgubmV0PiwgZGVsYXk9MiswMg0KOjU3OjMzLCB4ZGVsYXk9MDA6MDA6MTIsIG1h aWxlcj1lc210cCwgcmVsYXk9bm14LnllYWgubmV0LiBbMjAyLjEwNi4xODUuMTExXSwgc3QNCmF0 PURlZmVycmVkOiA0NTAgPG5ld3MtYWRtaW5AbG9jYWxob3N0LmxvY2FsZG9tYWluPjogU2VuZGVy IGFkZHJlc3MgcmVqZWN0ZWQ6IERvDQptYWluIG5vdCBmb3VuZA0KLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t LS0tLS0NCg0KV2hhdCBjYW4gSSBkbyBub3c/DQoNCg0KDQpHcmVldGluZyENClNvd2VuDQoNCg== From thomas@xs4all.net Tue Aug 8 10:46:09 2000 From: thomas@xs4all.net (Thomas Wouters) Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2000 11:46:09 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Bugreports ;) Message-ID: <20000808114608.B266@xs4all.nl> I submitted a new bug yesterday, but I haven't been getting the SF 'bug update mails' even when I added new text, so I'm not sure if the folx who keep track of those things (Barry alone, I assume ? :P) saw it. The bug is that when you try to subscribe via de 'subscribe' page, and you don't fill in any password, you get the response 3 times. The fix is easy, and described in the bugreport ;) #111306. -- Thomas Wouters Hi! I'm a .signature virus! copy me into your .signature file to help me spread! From Ricardo Kustner Tue Aug 8 21:30:00 2000 From: Ricardo Kustner (Ricardo Kustner) Date: 08 Aug 2000 20:30:00 CEST Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Database API In-Reply-To: <3989DBB4.A61FF137@leo.gov> References: <14729.39360.535677.987013@bitdiddle.concentric.net> <3989DBB4.A61FF137@leo.gov> Message-ID: <200008081829.UAA11837@smtp9.xs4all.nl> On Thu, 03 Aug 2000 16:53:08 -0400, Andy Lowe said: > Jeremy Hylton wrote: > > I am also interested in breaking up the way Mailman stores information > > about lists and subscribers. I'd like the database API to be a bit > > more general, however. There are a number of groups interested in > I agree with you completely, and I attempted to do that. I think a > LDAP backend to the currently proposed API would be fine, and as I said, >> I think the right approach is to write up a good architecture document >> that describes what data Mailman needs to store and what APIs can be >> used to plug in different storage technologies. Let's get buy-in from >> people interested in RDBMS, ZODB, and LDAP before we start writing >> code. LDAP sounds great to me too... we might be moving to LDAP soon at work too, which would make it interesting to integrate it with our local mailman lists. I think it would be great if Andy work out API document some more and i bet he can use his experience with the 'hack' he needs to finnish tommorrow ;) Ricardo. -- http://rixhq.nu "You think that's air you're breathing?" -- Morpheus From marc_news@valinux.com Thu Aug 10 00:07:25 2000 From: marc_news@valinux.com (Marc MERLIN) Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 16:07:25 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Reply-To in 2.0-beta5 Message-ID: <20000809160725.F1769@marc.merlins.org> I just realized that the explicit reply-to to a an external address doesn't exactly do what I need. I'd like my list to force the reply-to to another list if no reply to is set, but honor a given reply to if there is one. (it's an announce list and I want to put a fallback reply-to if there isn't any, but let the posting user redirect to another Email if needed) In "Where are replies to list messages directed?", can we have: "Poster/This list/Explicit address/Explicit address if unset" ? Thanks a bunch, Marc -- Microsoft is to software what McDonalds is to gourmet cooking Home page: http://marc.merlins.org/ (friendly to non IE browsers) Finger marc_f@merlins.org for PGP key and other contact information From darrell@grumblesmurf.net Thu Aug 10 00:13:26 2000 From: darrell@grumblesmurf.net (Darrell Fuhriman) Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 16:13:26 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Reply-To in 2.0-beta5 In-Reply-To: <20000809160725.F1769@marc.merlins.org> Message-ID: > (it's an announce list and I want to put a fallback reply-to if there isn't > any, but let the posting user redirect to another Email if needed) I personally think this should be the default behavior for all reply-to's. If the user has one set, they probably have a good reason for doing so and it should be left alone. Darrell From webweave@yeah.net Fri Aug 11 04:47:10 2000 From: webweave@yeah.net (sowen) Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2000 11:47:10 +0800 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] hi,Guys.Would anyone help me? Message-ID: <007e01c00346$da0ec910$3401a8c0@sowen.gzetang.com> aGksZ3V5cy4NCiAgICBXb3VsZCBhbnlvbmUgbGlrZSB0byBoZWxwIG1lPw0KICAgIEkgd2FudCB0 byBtYWtlIG1haWwgbGlzdCBhcmNoaXZlcyBwYWdlLGJ1dCBJIGhhdmUgbm8gYW55IGlkZWEgbm93 LldvdWxkIGFueW9uZSBsaWtlIHRvIGdpdmUgbWUgdGhlIHNvdXJjZSBjb2RlIG9mIG1hbGkgbGlz dCBhcmNoaXZlcyBwYWdlPw0KDQpUaGFua3MhDQpTb3dlbg0K From webweave@yeah.net Fri Aug 11 04:58:55 2000 From: webweave@yeah.net (sowen) Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2000 11:58:55 +0800 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] I have another question about search Message-ID: <008601c00348$7a4932c0$3401a8c0@sowen.gzetang.com> aGksR3V5czoNCiAgICBJIGhhdmUgYW5vdGhlciBxdWVzdGlvbiBhYm91dCBzZWFyY2ggdGhlIHVz ZXIuDQogICAgSSBmb3VuZCB0aGF0IHRoZSBtYWlsbWFuIGlzIGhhcmQgdG8gc2VhcmNoIHVzZXIu SG93IGRvIEkgd3JpdGUgYSBwcm9ncmFtIHRvIHNlYXJjaCB0aGUgdXNlciBpbiB0aGUgbWFpbCBs aXN0PyBob3cgdG8gb3BlbiBkYXRhYmFzZSxob3cgdG8gcnVuIGEgcXVlcnksaG93IHRvIHNob3cg dGhlIHJlc3VsdC4NCiAgICBJIHdhcyBhbiBBU1AgJiBDR0kgcHJvZ3JhbWVyLGJ1dCBJIGhhdmUg 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Aug 11 05:15:47 2000 From: Dan Mick (Dan Mick) Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 21:15:47 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Mailman-Developers] I have another question about search Message-ID: <200008110414.VAA16507@utopia.west.sun.com> > I found that the mailman is hard to search user.How do I write a program to search the user in the mail list? bin/find_member already does this. Why do you need something else? And if you do, start from there... From webweave@yeah.net Fri Aug 11 06:19:09 2000 From: webweave@yeah.net (sowen) Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2000 13:19:09 +0800 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] I have another question about search Message-ID: <00cd01c00353$b3056ce0$3401a8c0@sowen.gzetang.com> eWVzLEkgcmVhbGx5IHdhbnQgdG8gZG8gdGhpcy5CdXQgaG93IGNhbiBJIHJldHVybiB0aGUgcmVz dWx0cyBhbmQgc2hvdyB0aGVtIG9uIFdlYiBwYWdlPw0Kd2h5IG5vdCByZWFkIHRoZSBkYXRhYmFz ZSBkaXJlY3RseSBhbmQgc2hvdyB0aGUgcmVzdWx0Pw0KDQoNCj5TbyBob29rIGZpbmRfbWVtYmVy IHVwIHRvIGEgd2ViIHBhZ2Ugd2l0aCBhIENHSS4NCg0KPiBGcm9tOiAic293ZW4iIDx3ZWJ3ZWF2 ZUB5ZWFoLm5ldD4NCj4gVG86ICJEYW4gTWljayIgPERhbi5NaWNrQHdlc3Quc3VuLmNvbT4NCj4g U3ViamVjdDogUmU6IFtNYWlsbWFuLURldmVsb3BlcnNdIEkgaGF2ZSBhbm90aGVyIHF1ZXN0aW9u IGFib3V0IHNlYXJjaA0KPiBEYXRlOiBGcmksIDExIEF1ZyAyMDAwIDEzOjAyOjQwICswODAwDQo+ IFgtTUlNRS1BdXRvY29udmVydGVkOiBmcm9tIGJhc2U2NCB0byA4Yml0IGJ5IHV0b3BpYS53ZXN0 LnN1bi5jb20gaWQgVkFBMTY5NDQNCj4gDQo+IG5vLG5vLEkgbWVhbnMgSSB3YW50IHRvIHNlYXJj aCB1c2VyIG9uIFdlYiBwYWdlLGFuZCBzaG93IHRoZSBxdWVyeSByZXN1bHRzIG9uIA0KV2ViIHBh Z2UuICBeXg0KPiANCj4gLS0tLS0gT3JpZ2luYWwgTWVzc2FnZSAtLS0tLSANCj4gRnJvbTogIkRh biBNaWNrIiA8RGFuLk1pY2tAV2VzdC5TdW4uQ09NPg0KPiBUbzogPG1haWxtYW4tZGV2ZWxvcGVy c0BweXRob24ub3JnPjsgPHdlYndlYXZlQHllYWgubmV0Pg0KPiBTZW50OiBGcmlkYXksIEF1Z3Vz dCAxMSwgMjAwMCAxMjoxNSBQTQ0KPiBTdWJqZWN0OiBSZTogW01haWxtYW4tRGV2ZWxvcGVyc10g SSBoYXZlIGFub3RoZXIgcXVlc3Rpb24gYWJvdXQgc2VhcmNoDQo+IA0KPiANCj4gPiANCj4gPiA+ ICAgICBJIGZvdW5kIHRoYXQgdGhlIG1haWxtYW4gaXMgaGFyZCB0byBzZWFyY2ggdXNlci5Ib3cg ZG8gSSB3cml0ZSBhIA0KcHJvZ3JhbSANCj4gPiB0byBzZWFyY2ggdGhlIHVzZXIgaW4gdGhlIG1h aWwgbGlzdD8gDQo+ID4gDQo+ID4gYmluL2ZpbmRfbWVtYmVyIGFscmVhZHkgZG9lcyB0aGlzLiAg V2h5IGRvIHlvdSBuZWVkIHNvbWV0aGluZw0KPiA+IGVsc2U/ICBBbmQgaWYgeW91IGRvLCBzdGFy dCBmcm9tIHRoZXJlLi4uDQo+ID4gDQo+ID4gDQo+ID4gX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX18NCj4gPiBNYWlsbWFuLURldmVsb3BlcnMgbWFpbGluZyBs aXN0DQo+ID4gTWFpbG1hbi1EZXZlbG9wZXJzQHB5dGhvbi5vcmcNCj4gPiBodHRwOi8vd3d3LnB5 dGhvbi5vcmcvbWFpbG1hbi9saXN0aW5mby9tYWlsbWFuLWRldmVsb3BlcnMNCg== From Dan Mick Fri Aug 11 06:21:50 2000 From: Dan Mick (Dan Mick) Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 22:21:50 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Mailman-Developers] I have another question about search Message-ID: <200008110520.WAA17325@utopia.west.sun.com> > yes,I really want to do this.But how can I return the results and show th= em on=20 Web page? I don't understand the question. A CGI program can take the output of any command it can run and display it on the web page. ?? Perhaps you don't understand what CGI is?... > why not read the database directly and show the result? "reading the database directly" is what find_member does... >=20 >=20 > >So hook find_member up to a web page with a CGI. >=20 > > From: "sowen" > > To: "Dan Mick" > > Subject: Re: [Mailman-Developers] I have another question about search > > Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2000 13:02:40 +0800 > > X-MIME-Autoconverted: from base64 to 8bit by utopia.west.sun.com id VAA= 16944 > >=20 > > no,no,I means I want to search user on Web page,and show the query resu= lts=20 on=20 > Web page. ^^ > >=20 > > ----- Original Message -----=20 > > From: "Dan Mick" > > To: ; > > Sent: Friday, August 11, 2000 12:15 PM > > Subject: Re: [Mailman-Developers] I have another question about search > >=20 > >=20 > > >=20 > > > > I found that the mailman is hard to search user.How do I write = a=20 > program=20 > > > to search the user in the mail list?=20 > > >=20 > > > bin/find_member already does this. Why do you need something > > > else? And if you do, start from there... > > >=20 > > >=20 > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Mailman-Developers mailing list > > > Mailman-Developers@python.org > > > http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers >=20 =FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF= =FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=CCj)fj=7F=C3z=F7=A5=A2=97=AB=B2f=A2=96)=E0= =96+-1=A8=A5=99=A9=FF=EB=DE=96=8A^=AE=CF=E9=CA=D8h=9F=FA+=82=1Bm =A7=FF=FF=C3=0C=FF=A7+a=A2=7F=E8=AE=0F=E6j)fj=7F=E5=8A=CBb=9D=FA?=99=A8=A5= =99=A9=FFu=EB=DE=96=8A^ From claw@nuron.com Fri Aug 11 06:40:17 2000 From: claw@nuron.com (J C Lawrence) Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 22:40:17 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] hi,Guys.Would anyone help me? In-Reply-To: Message from "sowen" of "Fri, 11 Aug 2000 11:47:10 +0800." <007e01c00346$da0ec910$3401a8c0@sowen.gzetang.com> References: <007e01c00346$da0ec910$3401a8c0@sowen.gzetang.com> Message-ID: <2699.965972417@nuron.com> On Fri, 11 Aug 2000 11:47:10 +0800 sowen wrote: > hi,guys. Would anyone like to help me? I want to make mail list > archives page,but I have no any idea now.Would anyone like to give > me the source code of mali list archives page? The sources for the archives at Kanga.nu: http://www.kanga.nu/archives/ Can be found here: ftp://ftp.kanga.nu/pub/Kanga.Nu/WebArchives/ Its not an entirely trivial system as it uses MHonArc for the archiving and PHP to handle various things like the ability to reply to list messages directly from the archive web pages. A more simple, and purely MHonArc based set of RC's that I used to use can be found here: ftp://ftp.kanga.nu/pub/Kanga.Nu/WebArchives.old/ The wrapping scripts for the older archives are largely the same as the versions in: ftp://ftp.kanga.nu/pub/Kanga.Nu/WebArchives/scripts/ -- J C Lawrence Home: claw@kanga.nu ---------(*) Work: claw@nuron.com http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/ Keys etc: finger claw@kanga.nu --=| A man is as sane as he is dangerous to his environment |=-- From Dan Mick Fri Aug 11 07:23:14 2000 From: Dan Mick (Dan Mick) Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 23:23:14 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Different approach to monthly password reminders Message-ID: <200008110622.XAA18633@utopia.west.sun.com> Here is a hacked up 'mailpasswds' program that will 1) send one message per user per list 2) make that message contain only that list's password 3) make the message originate from the list's admin address 4) include the listname in the Subject header This seems to be along the lines of what some people expect from the monthly password reminders (instead of what they get). YMMV, and I haven't tested this with every possible list config. I also haven't yet changed any comments. If you'd like to experiment without actually sending messages, remove the '#' from '# print msg' (at the end of the function 'mail_passwords') and put a '# ' before HandlerAPI.DeliverToUser(mlist, msg) right below it...i.e. switch # print msg HandlerAPI.DeliverToUser(mlist, msg) to print msg # HandlerAPI.DeliverToUser(mlist, msg) Then when you run 'python mailpasswds.new', you'll get all the messages it would have sent printed on stdout instead of actually sending the mail. Here's mailpasswds.new: #! /usr/bin/env python # # Copyright (C) 1998,1999,2000 by the Free Software Foundation, Inc. # # This program is free software; you can redistribute it and/or # modify it under the terms of the GNU General Public License # as published by the Free Software Foundation; either version 2 # of the License, or (at your option) any later version. # # This program is distributed in the hope that it will be useful, # but WITHOUT ANY WARRANTY; without even the implied warranty of # MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE. See the # GNU General Public License for more details. # # You should have received a copy of the GNU General Public License # along with this program; if not, write to the Free Software # Foundation, Inc., 59 Temple Place - Suite 330, Boston, MA 02111-1307, USA. """Send password reminders for all lists to all users. Any arguments are taken as a list of addresses that become the focus - only the subscribers on the list are attended to, all other subscribers are ignored. In addition, if any addresses are specified, a line is printed for each list where that address is found. (Otherwise operation is silent.) We accumulate users and their passwords, and use the last list to send a single message to each user with their complete collection of passwords, rather than sending a single message for each password. If mm_cfg.VIRTUAL_HOST_OVERVIEW is true, we further group users by the virtual host the mailing lists are assigned to. This is so that virtual domains are treated like real separate machines. """ # This puppy should probably do lots of logging. import sys import os import string import errno import paths from Mailman import mm_cfg from Mailman import MailList from Mailman import Utils from Mailman import Message from Mailman.Handlers import HandlerAPI # Work around known problems with some RedHat cron daemons import signal signal.signal(signal.SIGCHLD, signal.SIG_DFL) def mail_passwords(mlist, users, host): """Send each user their complete list of passwords. The list can be any random one - it is only used for the message delivery mechanism. Users are grouped by virtual host. """ mailman_owner = mm_cfg.MAILMAN_OWNER for addr, data in users.items(): table = [] for l, r, p, u in data: if len(l) > 39: table.append("%s\n %-10s\n%s\n" % (l, p, u)) else: table.append("%-40s %-10s\n%s\n" % (l, p, u)) header = ("%-40s %-10s\n%-40s %-10s" % ("List", "Password // URL", "----", "--------")) text = Utils.maketext( 'cronpass.txt', {'hostname': host, 'useraddr': addr, 'exreq' : r, 'owner' : mailman_owner, }) # add this to the end so it doesn't get wrapped/filled text = text + header + '\n' + string.join(table, '\n') subj = l + " password reminder" msg = Message.UserNotification(addr, mlist.GetAdminEmail(), subj, text) msg['X-No-Archive'] = 'yes' # print msg HandlerAPI.DeliverToUser(mlist, msg) def main(): """Consolidate all the list/url/password info for each user, so we send the user a single message with the info for all their lists on this site. """ # constrain to specified lists, if any confined_to = sys.argv[1:] # Group lists by the assigned virtual host, if # mm_cfg.VIRTUAL_HOST_OVERVIEW is true. Otherwise, there's only one key # in this dictionary: mm_cfg.DEFAULT_HOST_NAME. Each entry in this # dictionary is a dictionary of user email addresses hosts = {} for listname in Utils.list_names(): if confined_to and listname not in confined_to: continue ## else: ## print 'Processing list:', listname mlist = MailList.MailList(listname, lock=0) if not mlist.send_reminders: continue listaddr = mlist.GetListEmail() listreq = mlist.GetRequestEmail() umbrella = mlist.umbrella_list # get host information if mm_cfg.VIRTUAL_HOST_OVERVIEW: host = mlist.host_name else: host = mm_cfg.DEFAULT_HOST_NAME # # each entry in this dictionary is a list of tuples of the following # form: (listaddr, listreq, password, url) users = {} for addr, passwd in mlist.passwords.items(): url = mlist.GetOptionsURL(addr, absolute=1) realaddr = mlist.GetUserSubscribedAddress(addr) if not realaddr: continue recip = mlist.GetMemberAdminEmail(realaddr) userinfo = (listaddr, listreq, passwd, url) infolist = users.get(recip, []) infolist.append(userinfo) users[recip] = infolist mail_passwords(mlist, users, host) if __name__ == '__main__': main() From webweave@yeah.net Fri Aug 11 08:48:28 2000 From: webweave@yeah.net (sowen) Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2000 15:48:28 +0800 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] hi,Guys.Would anyone help me? References: <007e01c00346$da0ec910$3401a8c0@sowen.gzetang.com> <2699.965972417@nuron.com> Message-ID: <014e01c00368$89d3dfe0$3401a8c0@sowen.gzetang.com> SSBhbSBzb3JyeSxJIGRvd24gdGhlIGZpbGUgeW91IHByb3ZpZGUuQnV0IEkgcmVhbGx5IGRvbid0 IHVuZGVyc3RhbmQgaG93IHRvIHVzZSB0aGVzZSBmaWxlcy4gIF5eKQ0KDQpHcmVldGluZyENClNv d2VuDQoNCi0tLS0tIE9yaWdpbmFsIE1lc3NhZ2UgLS0tLS0gDQpGcm9tOiAiSiBDIExhd3JlbmNl IiA8Y2xhd0BudXJvbi5jb20+DQpUbzogInNvd2VuIiA8d2Vid2VhdmVAeWVhaC5uZXQ+DQpDYzog PG1haWxtYW4tZGV2ZWxvcGVyc0BweXRob24ub3JnPg0KU2VudDogRnJpZGF5LCBBdWd1c3QgMTEs IDIwMDAgMTo0MCBQTQ0KU3ViamVjdDogUmU6IFtNYWlsbWFuLURldmVsb3BlcnNdIGhpLEd1eXMu V291bGQgYW55b25lIGhlbHAgbWU/IA0KDQoNCj4gT24gRnJpLCAxMSBBdWcgMjAwMCAxMTo0Nzox MCArMDgwMCANCj4gc293ZW4gIDx3ZWJ3ZWF2ZUB5ZWFoLm5ldD4gd3JvdGU6DQo+IA0KPiA+IGhp LGd1eXMuICBXb3VsZCBhbnlvbmUgbGlrZSB0byBoZWxwIG1lPyAgSSB3YW50IHRvIG1ha2UgbWFp bCBsaXN0DQo+ID4gYXJjaGl2ZXMgcGFnZSxidXQgSSBoYXZlIG5vIGFueSBpZGVhIG5vdy5Xb3Vs ZCBhbnlvbmUgbGlrZSB0byBnaXZlDQo+ID4gbWUgdGhlIHNvdXJjZSBjb2RlIG9mIG1hbGkgbGlz dCBhcmNoaXZlcyBwYWdlPw0KPiANCj4gVGhlIHNvdXJjZXMgZm9yIHRoZSBhcmNoaXZlcyBhdCBL YW5nYS5udToNCj4gDQo+ICAgaHR0cDovL3d3dy5rYW5nYS5udS9hcmNoaXZlcy8NCj4gDQo+IENh biBiZSBmb3VuZCBoZXJlOg0KPiANCj4gICBmdHA6Ly9mdHAua2FuZ2EubnUvcHViL0thbmdhLk51 L1dlYkFyY2hpdmVzLw0KPiANCj4gSXRzIG5vdCBhbiBlbnRpcmVseSB0cml2aWFsIHN5c3RlbSBh cyBpdCB1c2VzIE1Ib25BcmMgZm9yIHRoZQ0KPiBhcmNoaXZpbmcgYW5kIFBIUCB0byBoYW5kbGUg dmFyaW91cyB0aGluZ3MgbGlrZSB0aGUgYWJpbGl0eSB0byByZXBseQ0KPiB0byBsaXN0IG1lc3Nh Z2VzIGRpcmVjdGx5IGZyb20gdGhlIGFyY2hpdmUgd2ViIHBhZ2VzLg0KPiANCj4gQSBtb3JlIHNp bXBsZSwgYW5kIHB1cmVseSBNSG9uQXJjIGJhc2VkIHNldCBvZiBSQydzIHRoYXQgSSB1c2VkIHRv DQo+IHVzZSBjYW4gYmUgZm91bmQgaGVyZToNCj4gDQo+ICAgZnRwOi8vZnRwLmthbmdhLm51L3B1 Yi9LYW5nYS5OdS9XZWJBcmNoaXZlcy5vbGQvDQo+IA0KPiBUaGUgd3JhcHBpbmcgc2NyaXB0cyBm b3IgdGhlIG9sZGVyIGFyY2hpdmVzIGFyZSBsYXJnZWx5IHRoZSBzYW1lIGFzDQo+IHRoZSB2ZXJz aW9ucyBpbjoNCj4gDQo+ICAgZnRwOi8vZnRwLmthbmdhLm51L3B1Yi9LYW5nYS5OdS9XZWJBcmNo aXZlcy9zY3JpcHRzLw0KPiANCj4gLS0gDQo+IEogQyBMYXdyZW5jZSAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAg ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgIEhvbWU6IGNsYXdAa2FuZ2EubnUNCj4gLS0tLS0tLS0tKCopICAgICAg ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICBXb3JrOiBjbGF3QG51cm9uLmNvbQ0KPiBodHRwOi8v d3d3LmthbmdhLm51L35jbGF3LyAgICAgICAgS2V5cyBldGM6IGZpbmdlciBjbGF3QGthbmdhLm51 DQo+IC0tPXwgQSBtYW4gaXMgYXMgc2FuZSBhcyBoZSBpcyBkYW5nZXJvdXMgdG8gaGlzIGVudmly b25tZW50IHw9LS0NCj4gDQo+IF9fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fDQo+IE1haWxtYW4tRGV2ZWxvcGVycyBtYWlsaW5nIGxpc3QNCj4gTWFpbG1hbi1E ZXZlbG9wZXJzQHB5dGhvbi5vcmcNCj4gaHR0cDovL3d3dy5weXRob24ub3JnL21haWxtYW4vbGlz dGluZm8vbWFpbG1hbi1kZXZlbG9wZXJzDQo= From claw@nuron.com Fri Aug 11 19:15:23 2000 From: claw@nuron.com (J C Lawrence) Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2000 11:15:23 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] hi,Guys.Would anyone help me? In-Reply-To: Message from "sowen" of "Fri, 11 Aug 2000 15:48:28 +0800." <014e01c00368$89d3dfe0$3401a8c0@sowen.gzetang.com> References: <007e01c00346$da0ec910$3401a8c0@sowen.gzetang.com> <2699.965972417@nuron.com> <014e01c00368$89d3dfe0$3401a8c0@sowen.gzetang.com> Message-ID: <11474.966017723@nuron.com> On Fri, 11 Aug 2000 15:48:28 +0800 sowen wrote: > I am sorry,I down the file you provide.But I really don't > understand how to use these files. You'll have to read the MHonArc documentation: http://www.mhonarc.org/ and depending on which set you chose, PHP: http://www.php.net/ -- J C Lawrence Home: claw@kanga.nu ---------(*) Work: claw@nuron.com http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/ Keys etc: finger claw@kanga.nu --=| A man is as sane as he is dangerous to his environment |=-- From marc_news@valinux.com Mon Aug 14 07:15:34 2000 From: marc_news@valinux.com (Marc MERLIN) Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2000 23:15:34 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] bouncing users create Email dupes with 2.0 beta5 Message-ID: <20000813231534.A16323@marc.merlins.org> I saw http://sourceforge.net/bugs/?func=detailbug&bug_id=111176&group_id=103 but my report seems slight different, so here it is: Ok, so I had a mail server configuration and a list with 13 non local users. Because mailman telnets to port 25 instead or running sendmail directly, the Emails to non local users got bounced (we do not relay). The problem is that mailman apparently thought the Email didn't go through at all, and resent the whole Email 14 times, until the all the 13 users got removed from the list. The bug didn't happen when the users were still in "first" or "0 more allowed" mode, it happened when they started to be actually unsubscribed. Here's the mailman bounce log of when this happened: Aug 12 19:02:02 2000 (31157) Flash: grice@accesspr.com - exceeded limits Aug 12 19:02:02 2000 (31157) Flash: removed grice@accesspr.com Aug 12 19:03:01 2000 (31181) Flash: grice@accesspr.com - first Aug 12 19:03:01 2000 (31181) Flash: skelly@accesspr.com - exceeded limits Aug 12 19:03:02 2000 (31181) Flash: removed skelly@accesspr.com Aug 12 19:04:01 2000 (31205) flash: address grice@accesspr.com not a member. Aug 12 19:04:01 2000 (31205) Flash: skelly@accesspr.com - first Aug 12 19:04:01 2000 (31205) Flash: cstewart@accesspr.com - exceeded limits Aug 12 19:04:01 2000 (31205) Flash: removed cstewart@accesspr.com Aug 12 19:05:02 2000 (31230) flash: address grice@accesspr.com not a member. Aug 12 19:05:02 2000 (31230) flash: address skelly@accesspr.com not a member. Aug 12 19:05:02 2000 (31230) Flash: cstewart@accesspr.com - first Aug 12 19:05:02 2000 (31230) Flash: therman@accesspr.com - exceeded limits Aug 12 19:05:02 2000 (31230) Flash: removed therman@accesspr.com Aug 12 19:06:01 2000 (31255) flash: address grice@accesspr.com not a member. Aug 12 19:06:01 2000 (31255) flash: address skelly@accesspr.com not a member. Aug 12 19:06:01 2000 (31255) flash: address cstewart@accesspr.com not a member. (...) Aug 12 19:14:02 2000 (31456) Flash: mcoleman@accesspr.com - first Aug 12 19:14:02 2000 (31456) Flash: rglantz@accesspr.com - exceeded limits Aug 12 19:14:02 2000 (31456) Flash: removed rglantz@accesspr.com Aug 12 19:15:01 2000 (31483) flash: address grice@accesspr.com not a member. Aug 12 19:15:01 2000 (31483) flash: address skelly@accesspr.com not a member. Aug 12 19:15:01 2000 (31483) flash: address cstewart@accesspr.com not a member. Aug 12 19:15:01 2000 (31483) flash: address therman@accesspr.com not a member. Aug 12 19:15:01 2000 (31483) flash: address wtaylor@accesspr.com not a member. Aug 12 19:15:01 2000 (31483) flash: address nlarsen@accesspr.com not a member. Aug 12 19:15:01 2000 (31483) flash: address jim@userinterface.com not a member. Aug 12 19:15:01 2000 (31483) flash: address bschuman@accesspr.com not a member. Aug 12 19:15:01 2000 (31483) flash: address pcosturos@accesspr.com not a member. Aug 12 19:15:01 2000 (31483) flash: address pvelez@accesspr.com not a member. Aug 12 19:15:01 2000 (31483) flash: address ynakamoto@accesspr.com not a member. Aug 12 19:15:01 2000 (31483) flash: address mcoleman@accesspr.com not a member. Aug 12 19:15:01 2000 (31483) Flash: rglantz@accesspr.com - first Marc -- Microsoft is to software what McDonalds is to gourmet cooking Home page: http://marc.merlins.org/ (friendly to non IE browsers) Finger marc_f@merlins.org for PGP key and other contact information From bkuhn@ebb.org Mon Aug 14 19:22:09 2000 From: bkuhn@ebb.org (Bradley M. Kuhn) Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 14:22:09 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] List archives text format not mbox compatible? Message-ID: <20000814142209.G15052@ebb.org> --JgQwtEuHJzHdouWu Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline It appears that the text versions of the list archives that are generated by pipermail are not in mbox format Namely, the "From " line is built in a way that isn't compatible with mbox-based MUAs. I had never noticed this before, but it seems like there is no reason not to make them compatible with mbox. I think the most useful thing about offering text archives is that you can grab them and read them into an mbox MUA. Was the change in the "From " line format intentional, or is it a bug? if the former, can someone please explain the thinking behind it? -- Bradley M. Kuhn - http://www.ebb.org/bkuhn --JgQwtEuHJzHdouWu Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE5mDjR53XjJNtBs4cRAlrZAJ90tAxFTEB3hslDjOxMqAXgrk/wvwCfcLTV VkQnotK+x2JfjWgmzY+fEqA= =BDBS -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --JgQwtEuHJzHdouWu-- From thomas@xs4all.net Mon Aug 14 20:32:52 2000 From: thomas@xs4all.net (Thomas Wouters) Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 21:32:52 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] List archives text format not mbox compatible? In-Reply-To: <20000814142209.G15052@ebb.org>; from bkuhn@ebb.org on Mon, Aug 14, 2000 at 02:22:09PM -0400 References: <20000814142209.G15052@ebb.org> Message-ID: <20000814213252.V14470@xs4all.nl> On Mon, Aug 14, 2000 at 02:22:09PM -0400, Bradley M. Kuhn wrote: > It appears that the text versions of the list archives that are generated by > pipermail are not in mbox format Namely, the "From " line is built in a way > that isn't compatible with mbox-based MUAs. That's so for Mailman 1.1, and for old versions of 2.0beta. It's been fixed somewhere between 2.0b3 and 2.0b4, IIRC. At least, if we're talking about the same thing :) Since you don't elaborate on what's actually *wrong* with the 'From ' lines, I can't say for sure :) The problem used to be that the date on the 'From ' line wasn't in the default 'time.ctime()' format, but rather in the format of the date string that was contained in the message itself. -- Thomas Wouters Hi! I'm a .signature virus! copy me into your .signature file to help me spread! From bwarsaw@beopen.com Mon Aug 14 20:39:52 2000 From: bwarsaw@beopen.com (Barry A. Warsaw) Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 15:39:52 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Mailman-Developers] List archives text format not mbox compatible? References: <20000814142209.G15052@ebb.org> Message-ID: <14744.19208.860955.353853@anthem.concentric.net> >>>>> "BMK" == Bradley M Kuhn writes: BMK> It appears that the text versions of the list archives that BMK> are generated by pipermail are not in mbox format Namely, the BMK> "From " line is built in a way that isn't compatible with BMK> mbox-based MUAs. BMK> I had never noticed this before, but it seems like there is BMK> no reason not to make them compatible with mbox. I think the BMK> most useful thing about offering text archives is that you BMK> can grab them and read them into an mbox MUA. BMK> Was the change in the "From " line format intentional, or is BMK> it a bug? if the former, can someone please explain the BMK> thinking behind it? It depends on exactly which files you're talking about. If you mean something like 2000-August.txt that's available from http://www.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/ under the "Downloadable version" link, then I think it /is/ mbox compatible. Or put it this way, both VM under XEmacs and Linux's mail(1) program grok those files just fine. What specifically about the From_ line is bogus for you? -Barry From darrell@grumblesmurf.net Mon Aug 14 20:46:59 2000 From: darrell@grumblesmurf.net (Darrell Fuhriman) Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 12:46:59 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Mailman-Developers] List archives text format not mbox compatible? In-Reply-To: <14744.19208.860955.353853@anthem.concentric.net> Message-ID: > It depends on exactly which files you're talking about. If you mean > something like 2000-August.txt that's available from Which brings up a minor nit of mine. I think that the archive file/directory names should be in the format '2000-08' -- it sorts much more nicely -- though I appreciate that this is unlikely to change before the release. On the other note -- one can fix the previously mentioned problem by applying the right options to 'formail' -- I had to do that when migrating stuff from a lyris list, which doesn't keep the archives in mbox format, either. Darrell From jmackenzie@local.ie Tue Aug 15 00:01:35 2000 From: jmackenzie@local.ie (John MacKenzie) Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 00:01:35 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Installing Qmail Message-ID: <00081500025808.24023@samsara.local.ie> Hi there, I just changed from Sendmail to Qmail, was wondering if I needed to change mailman in anyway, for compatability issues, other than recompiling with the New mail-gid that is? Thanks - John -- John MacKenzie | Unix Systems Admin | e: mailto:jmackenzie@local.ie ___________________________________________________________________ Stay in touch your local area through Local Ireland http://chat.local.ie/chat/index.html ___________________________________________________________________ local ireland | dublin | new york | http://www.local.ie t: +353 1 676 8996 f: +353 1 283 9988 From jmackenzie@local.ie Tue Aug 15 04:00:08 2000 From: jmackenzie@local.ie (John MacKenzie) Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 04:00:08 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Re: Installing Qmail In-Reply-To: <00081500025808.24023@samsara.local.ie> References: <00081500025808.24023@samsara.local.ie> Message-ID: <0008150402490C.24023@samsara.local.ie> Just an update on the situation, I Sent a mail to one of my lists, named donegal-domain, the qmail system accepted it, and the wrapper took it and held it in pending requests. I then went to discard it, but to send a copy to myself (jmackenzie@local.ie) I never recieved this... qmail shows nothing about accepting a mail injection from mailman, and the bounce log is as follows : Aug 15 03:53:02 2000 (27868) Donegal-domain: jmackenzie@local.ie - first Aug 15 03:56:01 2000 (27946) donegal-domain: address jmackenzie@local.ie not a member. Can someone please assist? Thanks - John On Tue, 15 Aug 2000, John MacKenzie wrote: > Hi there, > > I just changed from Sendmail to Qmail, was wondering if I needed to change > mailman in anyway, for compatability issues, other than recompiling with the > New mail-gid that is? > > Thanks > - John > -- John MacKenzie | Unix Systems Admin | e: mailto:jmackenzie@local.ie ___________________________________________________________________ Stay in touch your local area through Local Ireland http://chat.local.ie/chat/index.html ___________________________________________________________________ local ireland | dublin | new york | http://www.local.ie t: +353 1 676 8996 f: +353 1 283 9988 From jmackenzie@local.ie Tue Aug 15 06:42:10 2000 From: jmackenzie@local.ie (John MacKenzie) Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 06:42:10 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Re: Installing Qmail In-Reply-To: <0008150402490C.24023@samsara.local.ie> References: <00081500025808.24023@samsara.local.ie> <0008150402490C.24023@samsara.local.ie> Message-ID: <0008150645080E.24023@samsara.local.ie> And before someone asks, I have Read README.QMAIL , I used the script to make the .qmail files for all the lists, I also added the virtualdomains entry for mailman. However I'm using tcpd, started qmail manualy, could be be a localhost relay issue? I've been working on this for the past 12 hours, still at a loss. Regards - John On Tue, 15 Aug 2000, John MacKenzie wrote: > Just an update on the situation, > > I Sent a mail to one of my lists, named donegal-domain, the qmail system > accepted it, and the wrapper took it and held it in pending requests. > > I then went to discard it, but to send a copy to myself (jmackenzie@local.ie) > I never recieved this... qmail shows nothing about accepting a mail injection > from mailman, and the bounce log is as follows : > > Aug 15 03:53:02 2000 (27868) Donegal-domain: jmackenzie@local.ie - first > Aug 15 03:56:01 2000 (27946) donegal-domain: address jmackenzie@local.ie not a member. > > Can someone please assist? > > Thanks > - John > > > > On Tue, 15 Aug 2000, John MacKenzie wrote: > > Hi there, > > > > I just changed from Sendmail to Qmail, was wondering if I needed to change > > mailman in anyway, for compatability issues, other than recompiling with the > > New mail-gid that is? > > > > Thanks > > - John > > > -- John MacKenzie | Unix Systems Admin | e: mailto:jmackenzie@local.ie ___________________________________________________________________ Stay in touch your local area through Local Ireland http://chat.local.ie/chat/index.html ___________________________________________________________________ local ireland | dublin | new york | http://www.local.ie t: +353 1 676 8996 f: +353 1 283 9988 From chuqui@plaidworks.com Tue Aug 15 07:03:30 2000 From: chuqui@plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach) Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 23:03:30 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Re: Installing Qmail In-Reply-To: <0008150645080E.24023@samsara.local.ie> References: <00081500025808.24023@samsara.local.ie> <0008150402490C.24023@samsara.local.ie> <0008150645080E.24023@samsara.local.ie> Message-ID: At 6:42 AM +0100 8/15/00, John MacKenzie wrote: >And before someone asks, I have Read README.QMAIL , Please dno't post to both mailman-users and mailman-developers. That just adds noise and drives the people you're asking questions crazy. It's either a usage problem (like this one), or a code issue. It's never both. Please don't shotgun questions everywhere, because it only discourages people from answering your questions. chuq -- Chuq Von Rospach - Plaidworks Consulting (mailto:chuqui@plaidworks.com) Apple Mail List Gnome (mailto:chuq@apple.com) And they sit at the bar and put bread in my jar and say 'Man, what are you doing here?'" From webweave@yeah.net Thu Aug 17 09:02:07 2000 From: webweave@yeah.net (sowen) Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 16:02:07 +0800 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] About the UMBRELLA List Message-ID: <008f01c00821$72855ea0$3401a8c0@sowen.gzetang.com> aGksQWxsICAgIA0KICAgIEkgcmVhbGx5IGRvIG5vdCB1bmRlcnN0YW5kIHRoZSBVTUJSRUxMQSBM aXN0LiBXb3VsZCBhbnlvbmUgdGVsbCBtZSB3aGF0IHRoZSBtZWFuIG9mIGl0Pw0KDQpUaGFua3Mh DQpTb3dlbg0K From abingham@lips.utexas.edu Thu Aug 17 15:08:45 2000 From: abingham@lips.utexas.edu (Austin Bingham) Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 09:08:45 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Bad logic in subscribe.py? Message-ID: I've been poking around the mailman code to track down some apparent bugs I've noticed, and I think I've found a problem with subscribe.py. I mentioned the problem I was seeing earlier on mailman-users, but I'll summarize: the html produced by subscribe.py was adding an extra ... around the html I wanted returned. As a result, by was being ignored by the browser which caused all sorts of rendering problems. The problem, it appears, is that subscribe.py uses Document instead of HeadlessDocument for managing it's HTML output. As a result, these "extra" tags get wrapped around my subscribe HTML and stomp on my formatting, etc. The solution that seems reasonable to me is to use doc = HeadlessDocument() in main() of subscribe.py. However, I haven't analyzed the problem as deeply as is probably necessary. Does this sounds right to anyone more knowledgeable about the code as a whole? In any event, there ought to be some way to ask mailman to not put these extra tags around my HTML. Thanks for any input on this! Austin Bingham Laboratory for Intelligent Processes and Systems University of Texas at Austin abingham@lips.utexas.edu From dc@dragonwerks.net Thu Aug 17 14:30:47 2000 From: dc@dragonwerks.net (DanielC) Date: 17 Aug 2000 07:30:47 -0600 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] [Mailman-Users] Flakey main listinfo page Message-ID: <20000817073047.1.20511.qmail@dragonwerks.net> Chuck's starting point panned out, if a host name has wierd capitalization (in my case TMTwatcher01 was the host name) then the virtual host code will miss if the url is entered as http://tmtwatcher01. Since DNS is case insensitive I think its a mailman bug. Sun, 13 Aug 2000 02:22:42 +1000 Could be a strange interaction with the virtual host code, which only displays lists on the listinfo page that have an URL matching that set in the list config. Chuck Wrote DanielC on Fri, Aug 11, 2000 at 03:39:54AM -0600: > > I just installed 2.0beta5 on a Redhat6.2 box with qmail1.03 When I set my > public lists up they didn't show up on the main listinfo page, and I blew > it off as a config error on my part. But the next day when I opened the > page all the public lists showed up as they should even though I hadn't > done anything except open the page in a new browser window, later that day > though after I had made changes to other lists the listinfo page was once > again empty. Any Ideas? > > -- > DanielC > > > ------------------------------------------------------ > Mailman-Users maillist - Mailman-Users@python.org > http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users From webweave@yeah.net Fri Aug 18 03:05:36 2000 From: webweave@yeah.net (sowen) Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 10:05:36 +0800 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] how to backup the old user database Message-ID: <003a01c008b8$cff309b0$3401a8c0@sowen.gzetang.com> aGksQUxMOg0KICAgIElmIEkgd2FudCB0byByZWluc3RhbGwgbWFpbG1hbixob3cgdG8gYmFja3Vw IHRoZSBvbGQgdXNlciBhbmQgbWFpbCBsaXN0IGNvbnRlbnQ/DQogICAgV2hlcmUgYXJlIHRoZSBk YXRhYmFzZSBmaWxlcyBwbGFjZWQ/IEFuZCB3b3VsZCBhbnlvbmUgbGlrZSB0byB0ZWxsIG1lIGhv dyB0byBvcGVuIHRoZSBkYXRhYmFzZSBhbmQgcmVhZCBpdCBpbiBQeXRob24/DQoNCg0KVGhhbmsg eW91IQ0KU293ZW4NCg== From bkuhn@ebb.org Mon Aug 21 09:54:40 2000 From: bkuhn@ebb.org (Bradley M. Kuhn) Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 04:54:40 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] List archives text format not mbox compatible? In-Reply-To: <20000814213252.V14470@xs4all.nl>; from thomas@xs4all.net on Mon, Aug 14, 2000 at 09:32:52PM +0200 References: <20000814142209.G15052@ebb.org> <20000814213252.V14470@xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <20000821045440.A1829@ebb.org> --n8g4imXOkfNTN/H1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thomas Wouters wrote: > That's so for Mailman 1.1, and for old versions of 2.0beta. It's been fix= ed > somewhere between 2.0b3 and 2.0b4, IIRC. At least, if we're talking about > the same thing :) Since you don't elaborate on what's actually *wrong* wi= th > the 'From ' lines, I can't say for sure :) Sorry, what I meant was, that the from lines look like: =46rom person@domain.dom Sat, 01 Jul 2000 14:18:09 -0500 rather than: =46rom person@domain.dom Sun Aug 20 03:06:48 2000 --=20 Bradley M. Kuhn - http://www.ebb.org/bkuhn --n8g4imXOkfNTN/H1 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE5oO5Q53XjJNtBs4cRAnMeAKCSh89dvHaQItv4YAX95+mD5u00PgCeKIG8 0G3baO89iZRnAZC5rWYxIXU= =5ETh -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --n8g4imXOkfNTN/H1-- From bkuhn@ebb.org Mon Aug 21 09:56:34 2000 From: bkuhn@ebb.org (Bradley M. Kuhn) Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 04:56:34 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] List archives text format not mbox compatible? In-Reply-To: ; from darrell@grumblesmurf.net on Mon, Aug 14, 2000 at 12:46:59PM -0700 References: <14744.19208.860955.353853@anthem.concentric.net> Message-ID: <20000821045634.B1829@ebb.org> --dc+cDN39EJAMEtIO Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Darrell Fuhriman wrote: > > It depends on exactly which files you're talking about. If you mean > > something like 2000-August.txt that's available from > > Which brings up a minor nit of mine. I think that the archive > file/directory names should be in the format '2000-08' -- it sorts much > more nicely -- though I appreciate that this is unlikely to change before > the release. I really like that idea. Another idea that I had: I recently had a need to get the entire archive of a mailing list and read it. It would be nice if list maintainers had the option, in the archive, to provide a single compressed mbox file of the entire past of the list. It's a bit easier to download and concatenate the period spool files together. -- Bradley M. Kuhn - http://www.ebb.org/bkuhn --dc+cDN39EJAMEtIO Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE5oO7C53XjJNtBs4cRAjncAJ91sV2tlgeqPxi412V/K9cWEFYjCgCcCqWR IUuWnMGQ7QH3cO9EsAvlM24= =JVrK -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --dc+cDN39EJAMEtIO-- From thomas@xs4all.net Mon Aug 21 11:21:00 2000 From: thomas@xs4all.net (Thomas Wouters) Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 12:21:00 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] List archives text format not mbox compatible? In-Reply-To: <20000821045440.A1829@ebb.org>; from bkuhn@ebb.org on Mon, Aug 21, 2000 at 04:54:40AM -0400 References: <20000814142209.G15052@ebb.org> <20000814213252.V14470@xs4all.nl> <20000821045440.A1829@ebb.org> Message-ID: <20000821122059.J4797@xs4all.nl> On Mon, Aug 21, 2000 at 04:54:40AM -0400, Bradley M. Kuhn wrote: > Thomas Wouters wrote: > > That's so for Mailman 1.1, and for old versions of 2.0beta. It's been fixed > > somewhere between 2.0b3 and 2.0b4, IIRC. At least, if we're talking about > > the same thing :) Since you don't elaborate on what's actually *wrong* with > > the 'From ' lines, I can't say for sure :) > Sorry, what I meant was, that the from lines look like: > From person@domain.dom Sat, 01 Jul 2000 14:18:09 -0500 > rather than: > From person@domain.dom Sun Aug 20 03:06:48 2000 Yes. In Mailmans older than b3 or b4 or so, right ? Or are you seeing this with the latest Mailman beta or the CVS tree, too ? -- Thomas Wouters Hi! I'm a .signature virus! copy me into your .signature file to help me spread! From Nigel.Metheringham@VData.co.uk Mon Aug 21 17:38:26 2000 From: Nigel.Metheringham@VData.co.uk (Nigel Metheringham) Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 17:38:26 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Confirmations of membership Message-ID: I've just been watching messages from someone who is too sophisticated to reply to the confirm message, but not sophisticated enough to realise that their HTML loving MUA trashes the confirm response by wrapping in layers of MIME :-) Do we want to remove this part of the confirm message to alleviate this:- > - or include the following line - and only the following line - in the > message body: > confirm 409078 or is there a case for making the confirm web enabled too, so the confirm message looks something like:- - or follow this URL http://www.exim.org/mailman/confirm/list-name/1234567890 and have that URL do the appropriate magic? [We do almost exactly this for the monthly reminders, so it seems OK] Nigel. -- [ - Opinions expressed are personal and may not be shared by VData - ] [ Nigel Metheringham Nigel.Metheringham@VData.co.uk ] [ Phone: +44 1423 850000 Fax +44 1423 858866 ] From ckolar@admin.aurora.edu Mon Aug 21 18:33:44 2000 From: ckolar@admin.aurora.edu (Christopher Kolar) Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 12:33:44 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Confirmations of membership In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20000821123305.03f62c30@admin.aurora.edu> At 11:38 AM 8/21/2000, you wrote: >I've just been watching messages from someone who is too sophisticated >to reply to the confirm message, but not sophisticated enough to >realise that their HTML loving MUA trashes the confirm response by >wrapping in layers of MIME :-) > >[....] >- or follow this URL > http://www.exim.org/mailman/confirm/list-name/1234567890 The URL option would be really great. --chris From Nigel.Metheringham@VData.co.uk Wed Aug 23 17:10:31 2000 From: Nigel.Metheringham@VData.co.uk (Nigel Metheringham) Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 17:10:31 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] RFC2369 - Mailing list management stuff Message-ID: Anyone considered RFC2369 (with the catchy title of "The Use of URLs as Meta-Syntax for Core Mail List Commands and their Transport through Message Header Fields") and whether Mailman should support it. In brief this is a batch of headers for list mail which define URLs to do list management. Theoretically an MUA should use these to give a user an interface to hack a list - ie sub/unsub get info on archives etc. Currently this is probably in a chicken and egg situation - MLMs don't support it so MUAs don't either... Exmh does support it (first place I'd seen mention of it). It doesn't seem like that great a system to me :-) For info see ftp://ftp.isi.edu/in-notes/rfc2369.txt http://www.beedub.com/exmh/guide.html#MAILING Nigel. -- [ - Opinions expressed are personal and may not be shared by VData - ] [ Nigel Metheringham Nigel.Metheringham@VData.co.uk ] [ Phone: +44 1423 850000 Fax +44 1423 858866 ] From claw@nuron.com Wed Aug 23 23:22:42 2000 From: claw@nuron.com (J C Lawrence) Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 15:22:42 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] RFC2369 - Mailing list management stuff In-Reply-To: Message from Nigel Metheringham of "Wed, 23 Aug 2000 17:10:31 BST." References: Message-ID: <14059.967069362@nuron.com> On Wed, 23 Aug 2000 17:10:31 +0100 Nigel Metheringham wrote: > Anyone considered RFC2369 (with the catchy title of "The Use of > URLs as Meta-Syntax for Core Mail List Commands and their > Transport through Message Header Fields") and whether Mailman > should support it. I'd love to see them. I supported RFC2369 headers on the list server I ran before Mailman and several users reponded that they found the extra headers useful. Note that as I have a rather technically astute and abservant list base, this is a heavily biased response. -- J C Lawrence Home: claw@kanga.nu ---------(*) Work: claw@nuron.com http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/ Keys etc: finger claw@kanga.nu --=| A man is as sane as he is dangerous to his environment |=-- From bwarsaw@beopen.com Thu Aug 24 00:03:11 2000 From: bwarsaw@beopen.com (Barry A. Warsaw) Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 19:03:11 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Hack to support moderated newsgroups Message-ID: <14756.22575.405461.866343@anthem.concentric.net> Hi folks, I need to get comp.lang.python.announce -- a moderated newsgroup -- back online. So I've worked up a hack and uploaded it to SourceForge as patch # 101270. This allows the list admins to serve as newsgroup moderators. Here's the basic approach: Besides your normal news<->mail gateway list, you also create a list just for the moderators. This second list will have no members. It will be a one-way list, gatwaying only from mail->news and it will be used for approval purposes only. You set your moderator address to the posting address for the list. The patch hacks GatewayManager.py to add a new config variable, which basically toggles whether the gated newsgroup is moderated or not. If so, the Hold.py module will hold every message posted to the list (if it's not held via some other criteria, it'll get held with a ModeratedNewsgroup exception). Now the admins can use the admindb page to approve or discard the messages as normal. ToUsenet.py has been hacked to add an Approved: message to any that have been explicitly approved. That's the minimal needed to tell the netnews software that the message should get posted. This stuff is a hack, which is why I'm not folding it into the distro (well, that and Mailman 2.0 is overdue -- I've been concentrating on getting Python 2.0 ready for release). I'd be interested in any feedback you might have. I've done some preliminary testing with c.l.py.a and I think this'll work. -Barry From bbum@codefab.com Thu Aug 24 19:37:11 2000 From: bbum@codefab.com (Bill Bumgarner) Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 14:37:11 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Mailman w/WebDav integration Message-ID: <200008241837.e7OIbAQ03976@bjork.codefab.com> Latest cut of the source is at: http://www.codefab.com/mailman-dav/ To put it bluntly, it works great. We have had it in production for over two months now and it has proven to be excellent. In particular, our current system: - decodes all incoming attachments - files attachments to a remote web server via the WebDAV protocol [including using Dav properties to describe the attachment; size, encoding, extra information] - rewrites the message such that it contains URLs to the attachments where the original attachment was - archives the rewritten message [again, via Dav] - sends a copy of the message to a [proprietary] process via HTTP - provides a raw HTTP based interface for programmatically administrating an individual mailing list's configuration - provides means by which a user can be given an URL to download an attachment where that URL automatically becomes invalid after a certain amount of time - provides means by which any attachment in the archive can be automatically re-encoded, re-attached to a message and sent to any user as a standard email w/attachment And it probably does some other stuff I can't remember. :-) In any case, the above is based against a 1.2b2 of Mailman-- I have been tracking changes to the repository, but recently fell behind. I plan on updating to b4 (or later) relatively soon. If you use this stuff, have questions, or whatever-- PLEASE let me know... I will NOT be able to continue donating my time to the continuation of this stuff without some interest from the community [and I will not be offended if the community decides it is utterly useless... I don't believe that is the case]. thanks! b.bum From darrell@grumblesmurf.net Fri Aug 25 06:52:41 2000 From: darrell@grumblesmurf.net (Darrell Fuhriman) Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 22:52:41 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Mailman-Developers] uploaded patch for RFC 2368 headers. Message-ID: It seems to be quite reasonable feature, and was also quite easy to add. :) Comments or improvements suggested. Patch ID is 101290 --- http://sourceforge.net/patch/?func=detailpatch&patch_id=101290&group_id=103 These headers are not currently configurable, but the defaults are quite reasonable. Please note that this patch also makes a slight change to the way reply-to is handled. If the message already has a reply-to, the code will not add one. --- Darrell From chuqui@plaidworks.com Fri Aug 25 07:02:59 2000 From: chuqui@plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach) Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 23:02:59 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] uploaded patch for RFC 2368 headers. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: At 10:52 PM -0700 8/24/00, Darrell Fuhriman wrote: >It seems to be quite reasonable feature, and was also quite easy to add. kewl! looks good at first glance! -- Chuq Von Rospach - Plaidworks Consulting (mailto:chuqui@plaidworks.com) Apple Mail List Gnome (mailto:chuq@apple.com) And they sit at the bar and put bread in my jar and say 'Man, what are you doing here?'" From dojai@mail.ufv.br Fri Aug 25 12:56:51 2000 From: dojai@mail.ufv.br (dojai@mail.ufv.br) Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 08:56:51 -0300 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] local TXT/HTML files Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20000825085651.007c92e0@mail.ufv.br> Good Day to all, I'm new to mailman (a month) it's very interesting and I'm studing Python= now to be able to work better with the software. One thing that I have already done is made a soft link to all the= templates/*txt and *.html files in a directory that I called= local/SiteTemplates and for each list I made a local/ directory= with soft links to local/SiteTemplates. Doing this has enabled me to make a traduction of the most common txt= files. As time goes by people who use computers know less english, not even= some list administratators know english! I have not made all the traductions but now I can have local traductions= for all the message files and I'm able to have especific instructions for= each list. Of course my gratest problem has been that I have to modify the python files= to point to ../local// there's chicken/egg problem in bin/newlist (if there's no list how to point= to local/ is that I create the local/ and the soft= links if they don't exist so newlist will send= local/SiteTemplates/newlist.txt because the soft link created points there= and if I have already made a special newlist.txt for that list it must be= already there. Well, my suggestion is to implement something like this because the= necessaty to have local txt/html files is world-wide, and to implement a= local ~mailman/local directory that could be preserved (as mm_cfg.py)= between installations. Thanks to all for your attention of forgive me for my limited english. Eduardo J. Quir=F3s B. (dojai@mail.ufv.br) "It's easier to ask for forgiveness than it is to get permission." (Rear Admiral Grace Murray Hopper) From Dan.Mick@west.sun.com Fri Aug 25 20:31:15 2000 From: Dan.Mick@west.sun.com (Dan Mick) Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 12:31:15 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] local TXT/HTML files References: <3.0.5.32.20000825085651.007c92e0@mail.ufv.br> Message-ID: <39A6C983.1EBADEAE@west.sun.com> I'm not certain if this solves your problem or not, but patch 100953 on Sourceforge allows all the txt/html files to be list-specific (by first searching in the list's directory, then falling back to the templates directory). So far this hasn't been integrated into the mainline source, but if you tried it and reported success, that might help it to be included. Let me know if you have any problems with it. dojai@mail.ufv.br wrote: > > Good Day to all, > > I'm new to mailman (a month) it's very interesting and I'm studing Python now to be able to work better with the software. > One thing that I have already done is made a soft link to all the templates/*txt and *.html files in a directory that I called local/SiteTemplates and for each list I made a local/ directory with soft links to local/SiteTemplates. > Doing this has enabled me to make a traduction of the most common txt files. As time goes by people who use computers know less english, not even some list administratators know english! > > I have not made all the traductions but now I can have local traductions for all the message files and I'm able to have especific instructions for each list. > > Of course my gratest problem has been that I have to modify the python files to point to ../local// > > there's chicken/egg problem in bin/newlist (if there's no list how to point to local/ is that I create the local/ and the soft links if they don't exist so newlist will send local/SiteTemplates/newlist.txt because the soft link created points there and if I have already made a special newlist.txt for that list it must be already there. > > Well, my suggestion is to implement something like this because the necessaty to have local txt/html files is world-wide, and to implement a local ~mailman/local directory that could be preserved (as mm_cfg.py) between installations. > > Thanks to all for your attention of forgive me for my limited english. > > Eduardo J. Quirуs B. (dojai@mail.ufv.br) > > "It's easier to ask for forgiveness > than it is to get permission." > (Rear Admiral Grace Murray Hopper) > > _______________________________________________ > Mailman-Developers mailing list > Mailman-Developers@python.org > http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers From claw@nuron.com Sat Aug 26 03:00:18 2000 From: claw@nuron.com (J C Lawrence) Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 19:00:18 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] uploaded patch for RFC 2368 headers. In-Reply-To: Message from Darrell Fuhriman of "Thu, 24 Aug 2000 22:52:41 PDT." References: Message-ID: <7943.967255218@nuron.com> On Thu, 24 Aug 2000 22:52:41 -0700 (PDT) Darrell Fuhriman wrote: > Please note that this patch also makes a slight change to the way > reply-to is handled. If the message already has a reply-to, the > code will not add one. That is actually a fairly significant change for a list that has Reply-To set in that it changes functionality that is already present. One can easily argue that allowing the poster to override a list's defined Reply-To is a Good Thing, as well as that the list owner's ability to mandate a Reply-To for list postings is also a Good Thing. I suggest (breathlessly given the current number of config options) that this be configurable among the following choices: 1) Reply-To is added, rewriting any already present Reply-To to X-Reply-To. (This is what Mailman should do now) 2) Reply-To is added only if one is not already there. (your default) 3) Reply-To is added with any previous Reply-To moved into From: with prior From: moved to X-From:. (I don't like this, but its orthognal) -- J C Lawrence Home: claw@kanga.nu ---------(*) Work: claw@nuron.com http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/ Keys etc: finger claw@kanga.nu --=| A man is as sane as he is dangerous to his environment |=-- From claw@nuron.com Sat Aug 26 03:01:35 2000 From: claw@nuron.com (J C Lawrence) Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 19:01:35 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] uploaded patch for RFC 2368 headers. In-Reply-To: Message from Chuq Von Rospach of "Thu, 24 Aug 2000 23:02:59 PDT." References: Message-ID: <7955.967255295@nuron.com> On Thu, 24 Aug 2000 23:02:59 -0700 Chuq Von Rospach wrote: > At 10:52 PM -0700 8/24/00, Darrell Fuhriman wrote: >> It seems to be quite reasonable feature, and was also quite easy >> to add. > kewl! looks good at first glance! Given a Reply-To list his Reply-To handling is not so cool for those users who their MUAs set to add a Reply-To to every message they write (less common than it was, but still not uncommon). -- J C Lawrence Home: claw@kanga.nu ---------(*) Work: claw@nuron.com http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/ Keys etc: finger claw@kanga.nu --=| A man is as sane as he is dangerous to his environment |=-- From tkikuchi@is.kochi-u.ac.jp Sun Aug 27 09:33:11 2000 From: tkikuchi@is.kochi-u.ac.jp (Tokio Kikuchi) Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2000 17:33:11 +0900 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] patch to add sequential number in subject Message-ID: <39A8D247.B82E3288@is.kochi-u.ac.jp> Hi, Mailman-Developers, I was investigating if Mailman can fit to Japanese Language and communities. Besides the translation which I want to write elsewhere (i18n?), a custom in Japan is to put a sequential number in the subject line, ie., [List-Name 123] instead of just [List-Name]. So, I tried to put this feature in the software and seems like to get success easily because I ASSUMED mlist.post_id holds the required sequential number. So, I want to ask 'Am I right?' I have uploaded the patch in http://sourceforge.net/patch/?func=detailpatch&patch_id=101319&group_id=103 I would be thankful if any one can review it and make some comments. Tokio Kikuchi, JAPAN From Dan.Mick@west.sun.com Mon Aug 28 03:12:33 2000 From: Dan.Mick@west.sun.com (Dan Mick) Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2000 19:12:33 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] patch to add sequential number in subject References: <39A8D247.B82E3288@is.kochi-u.ac.jp> Message-ID: <39A9CA91.99083F4D@west.sun.com> Tokio Kikuchi wrote: > So, I tried to put this feature in the software and seems > like to get success easily because I ASSUMED mlist.post_id > holds the required sequential number. > > So, I want to ask 'Am I right?' Sure looks that way to me. From marc_news@valinux.com Tue Aug 29 02:42:50 2000 From: marc_news@valinux.com (Marc MERLIN) Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 18:42:50 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Re: [Mailman-Users] how to set clobber_date = 1 by default? In-Reply-To: <200008290110.SAA11755@utopia.west.sun.com>; from Dan.Mick@west.sun.com on Mon, Aug 28, 2000 at 06:11:12PM -0700 References: <200008290110.SAA11755@utopia.west.sun.com> Message-ID: <20000828184250.W4317@marc.merlins.org> On Mon, Aug 28, 2000 at 06:11:12PM -0700, Dan Mick wrote: > > Did I miss anything or is that option absent? > > Right; in fact Archiver.py says: > > # Not configurable > self.clobber_date = 0 I changed this to 1, which will work until I upgrade mailman :-) > > Can we please have mm 2.0 not trust the MUA for date at archiving time by > > default when lists are created? > > Speaking solely for myself, I'd rather not, but I can see room for > debate. I'm just tired of people creating random web pages because their date is messed up. It really looks silly. Besides, you typically get messages within minutes of them being sent, so the local date should be really close to the actual sent date. > At least it would be nice to have it in mm_cfg.py. Yep :-) > One can always change Archiver.py for one's installation, I suppose. Yeah, works for now. Of course, the next upgrade will blow it away... Thanks, Marc -- Microsoft is to software what McDonalds is to gourmet cooking Home page: http://marc.merlins.org/ (friendly to non IE browsers) Finger marc_f@merlins.org for PGP key and other contact information From Dan Mick Tue Aug 29 02:45:38 2000 From: Dan Mick (Dan Mick) Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 18:45:38 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Re: [Mailman-Users] how to set clobber_date = 1 by default? Message-ID: <200008290144.SAA12600@utopia.west.sun.com> > > One can always change Archiver.py for one's installation, I suppose. > > Yeah, works for now. Of course, the next upgrade will blow it away... A useful hint: if you make a CVS tree, then you can change your local file and 99% of the time just forget about it. I finally got religion and did this, and it turns out that, if Barry changes a file I've changed, most of the time CVS merges it correctly and automatically. For a change like this, it will certainly be correct. That has the other advantage of being on the bleeding edge if you want to (you can always check out the Last Tarball Version if you want using symbolic tags) From dgc@uchicago.edu Tue Aug 29 04:39:47 2000 From: dgc@uchicago.edu (David Champion) Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 22:39:47 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Error in scripts/driver? Message-ID: <20000828223947.A10991@smack.uchicago.edu> Looks like line 121 of scripts/driver needs to say from Mailman.Version import VERSION instead of from Mailman.mm_cfg import VERSION Otherwise, I get ImportError during the traceback report. -- -D. dgc@uchicago.edu NSIT University of Chicago From Dan Mick Tue Aug 29 04:47:13 2000 From: Dan Mick (Dan Mick) Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 20:47:13 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Error in scripts/driver? Message-ID: <200008290346.UAA14923@utopia.west.sun.com> Actually, from comments in Defaults.py.in, it looks like that should have a from Mailman.Version import VERSION in it, so that importing Defaults or mm_cfg should get it...but I don't know how to use cvs log well enough to find out when the import was dropped from Defaults.py.in but it does look like a bug all right. > Looks like line 121 of scripts/driver needs to say > from Mailman.Version import VERSION > instead of > from Mailman.mm_cfg import VERSION > > Otherwise, I get ImportError during the traceback report. From dgc@uchicago.edu Tue Aug 29 04:58:21 2000 From: dgc@uchicago.edu (David Champion) Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 22:58:21 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Re: Error in scripts/driver? In-Reply-To: <200008290346.UAA14923@utopia.west.sun.com>; from Dan.Mick@West.Sun.COM on Mon, Aug 28, 2000 at 08:47:13PM -0700 References: <200008290346.UAA14923@utopia.west.sun.com> Message-ID: <20000828225821.E4729@smack.uchicago.edu> On 2000.08.28, in <200008290346.UAA14923@utopia.west.sun.com>, "Dan Mick" wrote: > Actually, from comments in Defaults.py.in, it looks like that should > have a from Mailman.Version import VERSION in it, so that importing > Defaults or mm_cfg should get it...but I don't know how to use > cvs log well enough to find out when the import was dropped from > Defaults.py.in > > but it does look like a bug all right. I know enough python to club myself in the head, but I think I hit this one because I had a bug (since resolved) in Defaults.py.[1] If Defaults.py or mm_cfg.py have a traceback error, this looks like it will come up. By importing VERSION explicitly as below, you at least can get the trace informationon the _original_ problem. If it's inherited from Defaults.py, then you still get this problem. > > Looks like line 121 of scripts/driver needs to say > > from Mailman.Version import VERSION > > instead of > > from Mailman.mm_cfg import VERSION > > > > Otherwise, I get ImportError during the traceback report. ---- [1] If you're curious, I modify Defaults.py to have a separate data area from the mailman installation directory. It's an article of faith to me that software directories should be mountable as read-only, so that any mutable data should be in another path. It's also dogma that symlinking your way out of that is non-ideal. -- -D. dgc@uchicago.edu NSIT University of Chicago From bwarsaw@beopen.com Tue Aug 29 05:27:10 2000 From: bwarsaw@beopen.com (Barry A. Warsaw) Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 00:27:10 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Re: Error in scripts/driver? References: <200008290346.UAA14923@utopia.west.sun.com> <20000828225821.E4729@smack.uchicago.edu> Message-ID: <14763.15262.699242.181743@anthem.concentric.net> Okay, thanks. If possibly, please submit a SourceForge bug report on this so it doesn't get lost in my inbox. Just want to add a note about why I've been so quiet on this list lately. You hardcore Pythoneers know that Python 2.0beta1 is slated for release on 5-Sep-2000, so I've been spending all my time on Python issues. The Python 2.0beta -> Python 2.0 final cycle is very short, so, while I hope to find time to attack outstanding Mailman problems in that timeframe, don't be surprised if I'm jammed up until after Python 2.0 final is released. We've got a mostly congealed deadline of 6-Oct-2000 for that and afterward, I'll be spending most of my time finishing up Mailman 2.0, and hopefully addressing the outstanding design issues for Mailman-the-way-it-should-be. it's-no-fun-trying-to-get-two-2.0-releases-out-at-once-ly y'rs, -Barry From brett@iclick.com Wed Aug 30 17:17:16 2000 From: brett@iclick.com (Brett Dikeman) Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 12:17:16 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] listmembers being "(ignored)", lockfile problems, 2.0b5 Message-ID: Greetings. I realize this is the developer list, so I'll explain why I'm posting here and not there. I already posted there. I also searched through my archives. I couldn't search through the list archives because the search engine on python.org appears to be broken(and yes, I followed the instructions, choosing only SIG archives.) I found a bunch of posts related to my problems, but not much in the way of resolutions. So, I emailed the list with my particular flavor of the problem, and I have not received an answer back yet. My general impression is that the mailman-users list is -very- helpful for well-known, solved issues. In one case, I received a helpful reply back within minutes when I sent a message out at 4am EST. However, for anything new, the users list is pretty much not helpful, so I'm coming here. My hope is that this information will also help with developemnt of b6. The setup we're running is Solaris, with python 1.5.2 compiled myself. The list was working great, until people started loosing mail delivey. I thought the auto-bounce handler was removing people, but they're still listed as subscribed, and I never received a message from the bounce handler saying they would be removed. Now, what I'm seeing in the logs: in logs/smtp-failure: smtp-failure:Aug 30 11:16:15 2000 (122) -1 (ignore) (many, many times) This user is in fact not getting email from either of the two lists he belongs to. The number in ()'s changes, though not with every entry in the logs. and, in logs/post, I see constant entries about: Aug 30 04:53:08 2000 (23571) post to from -request@, size=28501, 177 failures (always the same number of failures and size; seems to be some sort of unrelated mail loop of some kind.) and there are posts that go through: Aug 30 04:44:42 2000 (23411) post to from , size=528, success Qrunner seems to be working: Aug 30 02:55:04 2000 (22304) qrunner begining Aug 30 02:55:09 2000 (22304) qrunner ended (this is repeated every time qrunner is launched, which is wasteful in terms of space since it runs once a minute; I've got 56k of text for less than 12 hours of running) Now, this mystery "177 failures" message shows up again: Aug 30 06:50:10 2000 (25068) All recipients refused: please run connect() first Aug 30 06:50:10 2000 (25068) smtp for 177 recips, completed in 2.620 seconds In logs/bounce, I'm not sure I understand the meanings: Aug 29 23:13:31 2000 (18077) : - 27 more allowed over 426977 secs then there will be: Aug 29 23:13:33 2000 (18077) : - 0 more allowed over 395006 secs The non-delivery problem affects digest and non-digest users. Archives are working fine. One list is 1,500 people; 500 normal, 1000 digest users; the other is about 100 people, mostly non-digest. We're using sendmail, and I have the threaded delivery turned on due to the large number of slow/bad mail servers(and experience has shown that splitting them up into chunks results in a dramatic improvement in delivery times.) Thanks all for any help/tips. I wouldn't mind applying some patches that have been introduced since 2.0b5 that will fix this stuff, if they're available. Brett From claw@nuron.com Wed Aug 30 23:37:00 2000 From: claw@nuron.com (J C Lawrence) Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 15:37:00 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Re: [Mailman-Users] listmembers being "(ignored)", lockfile problems, 2.0b5 In-Reply-To: Message from Brett Dikeman of "Wed, 30 Aug 2000 16:44:05 EDT." References: Message-ID: <32640.967675020@nuron.com> On Wed, 30 Aug 2000 16:44:05 -0400 Brett Dikeman wrote: > Greetings. This is a edited version of a post I sent to the > developers this morning. No response, so I can only assume no one > cares to respond. At least have the good grace to wait a day or two. Not all of us read this list that quickly -- lately for instance I tend to read it only every couple days. I know others are in a similar circumstance and Barry has recently stated that he's buried in the Python 2.0 release and does not have much time to spend on the Mailman lists until that's done. > in logs/smtp-failure: What do your MTA's logs say? -- J C Lawrence Home: claw@kanga.nu ---------(*) Work: claw@nuron.com http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/ Keys etc: finger claw@kanga.nu --=| A man is as sane as he is dangerous to his environment |=-- From brett@pdikeman.ne.mediaone.net Thu Aug 31 00:15:14 2000 From: brett@pdikeman.ne.mediaone.net (Brett Dikeman) Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 19:15:14 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Re: listmembers being "(ignored)", lockfile problems, 2.0b5 Message-ID: Sorry folks, I realized I never sent this to developers list, i owe you guys the same apology. <<<< At 1:48 PM -0700 8/30/00, Dan Mick wrote: > > This is a edited version of a post I sent to the developers this >> morning. No response, so I can only assume no one cares to respond. > >I don't know about everyone else, but I'm just now reading this >message. Don't expect paid-support-level service for a free software >product... Sorry Dan(and listers.) Didn't mean to give that impression. I've been under a lot of stress because I've got a lot(several hundred) unhappy campers who are all treating -me- like I'm paid support staff for our list(which is a list run by volunteers for Audi enthusiasts and owners, end shameless plug :-) So, it's hit a little close to home that I accidentally came off the same way. Part of my attitude was that I've emailed the developer list(and this list) before with no response whatsoever, not even a peep, whereas I usually get very quick(and good) responses from this list(actually, Dan, I just realized...you were the fellow who responded back to me within minutes around 4am a week or two back when I was in a similar stressed out situation :-) >>>> -- ---- Brett Dikeman Systems Engineer CFN(formerly iClick, Inc) 914-872-8043 120 Bloomingdale Rd. 914-872-8100(fax) White Plains, NY 10605 http://www.iclick.com PGP Fingerprint: 06C2 5D5B D2B4 7626 BB24 2BBC 9E4A C8B3 PGP Key location: http://pdikeman.ne.mediaone.net/pgp/brett.pgp From dojai@mail.ufv.br Thu Aug 31 01:43:11 2000 From: dojai@mail.ufv.br (dojai@mail.ufv.br) Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 21:43:11 -0300 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] sugestion: http-digest In-Reply-To: <20000818142433.6ABA91D109@dinsdale.python.org> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20000830214311.007dea10@mail.ufv.br> This may seem a stupid sugestion, but since almost all lists have an= archive: I was thinking why instead of receiving the traffic from the list= as a digest (my case) why can't there be an option (other than text and= mime) for just receiving an email with the URLs for each entry of the= traffic of the day. Advantages: 1- would "send" each email on demand 2- I wouldn't receive big emails which I tend to trash instead of saving Disavantages: 1- greater http traffic 2- if I wanted to read the email a few days latter (not anymore in my cache)= it would be a new request for the web page Eduardo J. Quir=F3s B. (dojai@mail.ufv.br) "It's easier to ask for forgiveness than it is to get permission." (Rear Admiral Grace Murray Hopper) From chuqui@plaidworks.com Thu Aug 31 04:13:47 2000 From: chuqui@plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach) Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 20:13:47 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] sugestion: http-digest In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20000830214311.007dea10@mail.ufv.br> References: <3.0.5.32.20000830214311.007dea10@mail.ufv.br> Message-ID: At 9:43 PM -0300 8/30/00, dojai@mail.ufv.br wrote: >This may seem a stupid sugestion, but since almost all lists have an >archive: I was thinking why instead of receiving the traffic from >the list as a digest (my case) why can't there be an option (other >than text and mime) for just receiving an email with the URLs for >each entry of the traffic of the day. It's be a great idea, but it requires that the web archives be fully integrated into mailman, and they aren't. You need some way to store stuff for web access, and you need a way to be able to refer to those URLs from mailman when it generates the digest. Right now, none of that logic exists -- the web archives mailman ships with are grafted onto the side, and the two speak only though a one-way interface. It's a lot of work, and there's really no way to fake it, unfortunately. -- Chuq Von Rospach - Plaidworks Consulting (mailto:chuqui@plaidworks.com) Apple Mail List Gnome (mailto:chuq@apple.com) And they sit at the bar and put bread in my jar and say 'Man, what are you doing here?'" From brett@iclick.com Thu Aug 31 08:32:18 2000 From: brett@iclick.com (Brett Dikeman) Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 03:32:18 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Re: [Mailman-Users] listmembers being "(ignored)", lockfile problems, 2.0b5 In-Reply-To: <32640.967675020@nuron.com> References: <32640.967675020@nuron.com> Message-ID: Thanks to all who replied. The problem was in fact the SMTP agent. We have, on this particular host, a "messy" mail server setup; actual inbound SMTP is handled by something called Trend Interscan(which actually works really well, shameless plug for them*.) Trend then does Some Magic(mainly, decompresses/decodes any attachments, checks for viruses, that sort of thing) and hands off messages to sendmail(or, say, postfix; you can set the command Trend uses, or give it a hostname/port, etc.) Trend apparently got very upset when I removed some older definitions files(or I accidentally deleted something else it needed) and was doing strange things, like opening the connection but not responding, or closing it immediately, etc. I mucked around with it unsuccessfully for a few hours, gave up, and just fired up plain old sendmail into daemon mode and left trend off. Worked great; we're not protected against a virus getting sent to the list at the moment, but at least things will work until I straighten out the mess with Trend support in the morning.) qrunner did its job and shortly thereafter I received email from a bunch of users saying they now had a digest in their mailbox. Still not sure that everyone is working yet; have to check up with those who reported problems and see if they're 'alive' again. No more strange log entries, except for some business about quattro-admin sending mail to the list, and a lot of messages to 1 recipient, which seemed like mailman zapping bounce messages to me, and naturally reporting it in the SMTP logs. If problems crop up, you know I'll be back :-) Brett *this thing saved our butts at work so many times it isn't funny. I strongly recommend antivirus solutions for lists and companies. Where I work, it's a literal challenge to find a floppy since they're practically never used, which means most infections come in over email. On our list, it's caught at least 20 viruses in a few months. -- ---- Brett Dikeman Systems Engineer CFN(formerly iClick, Inc) 914-872-8043 120 Bloomingdale Rd. 914-872-8100(fax) White Plains, NY 10605 http://www.iclick.com PGP Fingerprint: 06C2 5D5B D2B4 7626 BB24 2BBC 9E4A C8B3 PGP Key location: http://pdikeman.ne.mediaone.net/pgp/brett.pgp From brett@iclick.com Thu Aug 31 20:31:54 2000 From: brett@iclick.com (Brett Dikeman) Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 15:31:54 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] trimming extra headers; footer info in digests Message-ID: So, after our switch off majordomo, I've received feedback from users. First, digest users complained that a lot of extra headers were making it tough to see the separation between messages. I also personally noticed that a -lot- of bandwidth is wasted by not stripping the footer of each message from the digest version(so the digest ends up with 20+ copies of the list's footer, with the list name and all.) Our list ballooned in bandwidth requirements when we went to mailman, and we're limited to an ISDN line. Alternatives like handing mail off to another server for expansion+delivery are not options at the moment; neither is a faster line(DSL is not available yet in the area where the server is.) I'd also like to know if there is a way to strip a lot of unnecessary headers, to save bandwidth and to make posts easier to read. Mainly, I don't see why we need listers(and especially digest users) to get much more than from, subject, to/cc, date, and reply-to if it's defined by the sender. Now, granted, there are strange setups, and it probably isn't compliant with some RFC thus-and-such to just hose headers, so it could be a non-default feature. However, I think that stripping each message of the mailman-addred footer -before- it is put in the digest would be great(just as how this is done with Pipermail archiving.) I would settle for this alone... Make sense? I've considered some kind of pre-processor program/script that takes a message and does stuff like: -remove unneeded headers -remove MIME/attachments -remove HMTL I'd guess that it's probably been done before, but a quick(and I do mean quick) search did not find anything. Brett PS:I should mention that people commented to me that they like the options/preferences, the archives, and -- ---- Brett Dikeman Systems Engineer CFN(formerly iClick, Inc) 914-872-8043 120 Bloomingdale Rd. 914-872-8100(fax) White Plains, NY 10605 http://www.iclick.com PGP Fingerprint: 06C2 5D5B D2B4 7626 BB24 2BBC 9E4A C8B3 PGP Key location: http://pdikeman.ne.mediaone.net/pgp/brett.pgp From chuqui@plaidworks.com Thu Aug 31 20:42:24 2000 From: chuqui@plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach) Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 12:42:24 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] trimming extra headers; footer info in digests In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: At 3:31 PM -0400 8/31/00, Brett Dikeman wrote: >-remove MIME/attachments >-remove HMTL http://scifi.squawk.com/demime.html is what I use. -- Chuq Von Rospach - Plaidworks Consulting (mailto:chuqui@plaidworks.com) Apple Mail List Gnome (mailto:chuq@apple.com) And they sit at the bar and put bread in my jar and say 'Man, what are you doing here?'" From claw@nuron.com Thu Aug 31 20:51:58 2000 From: claw@nuron.com (J C Lawrence) Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 12:51:58 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] sugestion: http-digest In-Reply-To: Message from dojai@mail.ufv.br of "Wed, 30 Aug 2000 21:43:11 -0300." <3.0.5.32.20000830214311.007dea10@mail.ufv.br> References: <3.0.5.32.20000830214311.007dea10@mail.ufv.br> Message-ID: <14058.967751518@nuron.com> On Wed, 30 Aug 2000 21:43:11 -0300 dojai wrote: > This may seem a stupid sugestion, but since almost all lists have > an archive: I was thinking why instead of receiving the traffic > from the list as a digest (my case) why can't there be an option > (other than text and mime) for just receiving an email with the > URLs for each entry of the traffic of the day. Advantages: 1- > would "send" each email on demand 2- I wouldn't receive big emails > which I tend to trash instead of saving ObNote: This really breaks when you use external archivers (as I do). This doesn't mean its a good idea -- just that there's a significant caveat. -- J C Lawrence Home: claw@kanga.nu ---------(*) Work: claw@nuron.com http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/ Keys etc: finger claw@kanga.nu --=| A man is as sane as he is dangerous to his environment |=-- From biz@6x6.net Sun Aug 27 04:15:13 2000 From: biz@6x6.net (Please Read IT Carefully!) Date: 27 Aug 2000 06:15:13 +0300 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] ATTENTION! Well-Paid Job in the Internet! Message-ID: ATTENTION! The Well-Paid Job in the Internet!
We wish You a pleasant and successful day!
 
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RISE ON THE WAY TO THE FINANCIAL INDEPENDENCE AND FREEDOM!!!
Welcome to the 6X6!
 
It is difficult to believe but nevertheless it is like that! People get richer and richer! Some of them can't recover from the shock which had come together with a heap of crust banknotes even some months later. While the others deliberate and doubt, people that believed in Business System 6X6 bathe now in money!...
 
In view of prompt rates of development of the Internet and electronic commerce the number of users of the "World Wide Web" grows with the great speed. There are more than 15,000 new people who join the Internet daily...
 

Copyright © 2000 6x6 MLM Corporation. All rights reserved.
Ladies and Gentlemen!
 
 


PLEASE READ THOUGHTFULLY AND ATTENTIVELY, TRYING NOT TO DISTRACT YOUR ATTENTION WITH EXTERNAL NOISES AND IRRITANTS, AND YOU'LL UNDERSTAND WHAT WILL MAKE YOU RATHER RICH AND FREE PEOPLE!!!
 

 


It is difficult to believe but nevertheless it is like that! People get richer and richer! Some of them can't recover from the shock which had come together with a heap of crust banknotes even some months later. While the others deliberate and doubt, people that believed in Business System 6X6 bathe now in money! In a literal sense! Have You ever seen how the heap of the $5 bills under which the adult person entirelly finds room looks like?! It is 100 thousand dollars!!! Can You imagine how the heap of $1,000,000 which is earned by each third participant of the superprogram 6X6 looks like?! And what is the feeling when You, not getting troubled with work, start to receive envelopes with six dollars already on the second week and further the profit is much more! And eventually some months later You don't know how to get rid of the money! You even get a bit scary of this avalanches of the money!!!
 

ALL THAT IT WILL NECESSARY TO DO - TO SEND THE ADVERTISING LETTERS VIA E-MAIL AND FROM TIME TO TIME TO CHECK YOUR MAILBOX OR TO GO TO THE BANK! YOU SHOULDN'T EVEN STRAIN THE BRAIN - THE SUPER COMPUTER BUSINESS SYSTEM 6X6 WILL MAKE EVERYTHING ITSELF!!!

SINCE THE MOMENT YOU ENTER THIS BUSINESS YOUR PROFIT SNOWBALLS AND BY THE END OF 4TH MONTH YOU'LL GET AS MINIMUM $100,000. BUT IF YOU DON'T STOP THE RESULTS WILL BE ASTRONOMICAL - $1,000,000 FOR 1 YEAR!!!!


"What is the secret of such dizzy success?" - You ask. This is because there is a new formula in the business system which provides all participants with 100%-s' success due to the account of such special factors which the human brain is simply not capable of grasping. Therefore this excellent program works! And it works brilliantly! This is a prodigy-system in which success is madly infectious! Hurry up to achieve the success too!!!
 

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Have You ever wondered why the majority of people achieve nothing in life but only complain? This is because they are ready on a little in their life. They have a ready definitions on everything, but these definitions are formulated not by them and taken from the others. To have Your own opinion is a luxury and rarity. Those who are not afraid to try and work more than doubts very quickly appears at the top of the World! Yes, it is difficult to believe that it is possible to get rich so quickly, difficult to overcome the doubts and find Yourself suddenly fantastically rich. But believe if You will do it, it becomes Your blessing and Your dizzy success! You will not argue that You are worthy of big success and big richness, will You? And so it is vitally necessary for You to do this step to find the financial independence which will bring You co-operation with superprogram 6X6! Your time has come!
 

"Pair words about the system..." - an interview with Igor Tichtchenkov, the founder of the business system
 
 


- In view of prompt rates of development of the Internet and electronic commerce the number of users of the "World Wide Web" grows with the great speed. There are more than 15,000 new people who join the Internet daily. With the growth of number of the Internet's users the number of different types of business programs also grows. Every day their popularity increases too and it is natural because the electronic commerce is the business of the 21st century. But business system 6X6 surpasses all others on some orders - it is possible to judge it by looking at the success it brings to all its participants. What is its advantage above the other business programs of similar type? Why does 6X6 bring success to all its participants - not only for its founder and the people who stand near him?

- Yes, You are absolutely right about the prompt development of electronic commerce and the occurrence of many business systems similar to 6X6.

Before the development of the program 6X6 I had closely studied all systems existing at concurrently and understood the way they had appeared. Probably everyone remembers those bonds which were so popular in 90-s. And so with the development of the Internet someone who knows nothing about computer technologies and of the principles of the "World Wide Web" simply transferred this program with bonds to the network. Yes, the idea is ingenious especially for those times - without the Internet You will hardly find 5 clients, in the network there are millions of users and it is possible to send thousands of advertising letters and find a lot of clients. But this system had setbacks: absence of the description of how to send a bulk mailing of advertising letters, where to take thousands of e-mail addresses etc. The most important deficiency was that this system was designed for extremely honest people. In the advertising letter there was a form similar to our business-table according to which the person who entered that business system had to buy its commodity units (each at the different participant). When he bought them he had to put his postal address for payment opposite to the first commodity unit and shift all other addresses one level below. If nobody supervised him he could change the table somehow. For example if he opened some P.O. boxes with various names at different post offices of the city and put the requisitions of these so-called "dead souls" to the table instead of the previous participants and the process stopped that way. Thus the system worked only at 100% at the first level, 1% -at the second, 0,1% - at the third and 0% at the fourth. Actually the profit came only from the first level, i.e. from direct sales. If You sent about 3,000 advertising letters per day You earned about $300 - $400 per month. But the idea of such kind of business systems - was to bring a maximum of the profit due to the last two levels, i.e. You send a party of letters, for example 10,000, receive 30 orders for the first level commodity unit and further the system works for You for several years. But many people earn these $300 - $400 per month sending 3,000 letters per day, having opened some P.O. boxes and put their requisitions everywhere where only it was possible. The commodity units also didn't contain useful information, excepting the names in the advertising letter. Therefore when You worked with such system You deceived the clients.

Probably, there is no sense to describe all other similar kinds of business systems because they are the copies of previous in literal sense. All they appeared that way - the essence was copied and secondary factors such as the names of commodity units, ways of payment, the contents of the advertising letter etc. were changed. It is possible to tell one about all of them: they are "created" (if it is possible to apply this word to pure plagiarism) by amateurs, that are distant from business in general (what is electronic commerce - they simply don't know!) as well as from computer technologies. But the idea to create such business systems is genious. Especially at our time – a time of the cutting edge Internet development and electronic commerce. Excluding the deficiencies of this system it is invaluable! Can You imagine what will the Internet look like in five years!

Even though the task was very difficult I developed such a business system.

The absence of the description of how to send a bulk mailing of advertising letters, where to take thousands of e-mail addresses and other technical details, I compensated with a specially developed software for automation of this process, that allowed one to send 5,000 to 20,000 advertising letters per day having spent only 30-40 minutes of the time, and with the very detailed description of work with this software, written in language which is comprehensible for users of any level and a plenty of advices and recommendations. I managed to do two things at once: to considerably increase productivity of the business system and to make the commondity units not only useful - required for the every participant of the business system, because they contain this special software and the description of work with it.

I stopped the dishonesty of participants by an obligatory registration at the main office of 6X6 MLM Corporation.

Because the system does not break I have added 2 additional levels and now the system has 6 levels (and the commodity unit of every level costs $6 - therefore and the name "6X6").

I made a more flexible system of the payment for the orders. Now the commodity units can be paid both by the "traditional" first class mail and can be transferred on the bank account. But I forbade to specify P.O. boxes as the address for payment for avoidance of a deceit and that the business system don't lose its attractiveness. Proceeding from the same reasons I forbade WebMoney.

I concluded the contract with iWin Loto Ltd. So with registration in our main office You are automatically included in a lottery and Your chances to win are directly proportional to the amount of sold Chapter#1.
 

The responses of our partners
 
 


My name is Jerry Proctor. Two years ago, the corporation I worked at for the past fifteen years down-sized and my position was eliminated. After unproductive job interviews, I decided to open my own business. Over the past year, I incurred many unforeseen financial problems. I owed my family, friends and creditors over $35,000. The economy was taking a toll on my business and I just couldn't seem to make ends meet. I had to refinance and borrow against my home to support my family and struggling business. AT THAT MOMENT something significant happened in my life and I am writing to share the experience in hopes that this will change Your life FOREVER FINANCIALLY!!! In mid December, I received this program via e-mail. Six month's prior to receiving this program I had been sending away for information on various business opportunities. All of the programs I received, in my opinion, were not cost effective. They were either too difficult for me to comprehend or the initial investment was too much for me to risk to see if they would work or not. One claimed that I would make a million dollars in one year ...it didn't tell me I'd have to write a book to make it! But like I was saying, in December of 1997 I received this program. I didn't send for it, or ask for it, they just got my name off a mailing list. THANK GOODNESS FOR THAT!!! After reading it several times, to make sure I was reading it correctly, I couldn't believe my eyes. Here was a MONEY MAKING PHENOMENON. I could invest as much as I wanted to start, without putting me further into debt. After I got a pencil and paper and figured it out, I would at least get my money back. But like most of You I was still a little skeptical and a little worried about the legal aspects of it all. So I checked it out with the U.S. Post Office (1-800-725-2161 24-hrs) and they confirmed that it is indeed legal! After determining the program was LEGAL and NOT A CHAIN LETTER, I decided "WHY NOT." Initially I sent out 30,000 e-mails. It cost me about $15 for my time on-line. The great thing about e-mail is that I don't need any money for printing to send out the program, and because all of my orders are fulfilled via e-mail, the only expense is my time. I am telling You like it is, I hope it doesn't turn You off, but I promised myself that I would not "rip-off" anyone, no matter how much money it cost me. In less than two weeks, I was starting to receive orders for CHAPTER#1. By January 13, I had received 36 orders for CHAPTER#1. Your goal is to "RECEIVE at least 30 ORDERS FOR CHAPTER#1" My first step in making $100,000 in 120 days was done. By January 30, I had received 246 orders for CHAPTER#2. Your goal is to "RECEIVE AT LEAST 150 ORDERS FOR CHAPTER#2. IF NOT, SEND OUT MORE PROGRAMS UNTIL YOU DO. ONCE YOU HAVE 150 ORDERS, THE REST IS EASY, RELAX, YOU WILL MAKE YOUR $100,000 GOAL." Well, I had 246 orders for CHAPTER#2, 96 more than I needed. So I sat back and relaxed. By March 30, of my e-mailing of 30,000, I received $118,000 with more coming in every day. I paid off ALL my debts and bought a much needed new car. Please take time to read this program, IT WILL CHANGE YOUR LIFE FOREVER!!! Remember, it won't work if You don't try it. This program does work, but You must follow it EXACTLY! In order for this program to work, You must meet Your goal of 30+ orders for CHAPTER#1, and 150+ orders for CHAPTER#2 and You will make $100,000 or more in 120 days. I AM LIVING PROOF THAT IT WORKS!!! If You choose not to participate in this program, I am sorry. It really is a great opportunity with little cost or risk to You. If You choose to participate, follow the program and You will be on Your way to financial security. If You are a fellow business owner and are if financial trouble like I was, or You want to start Your own business, consider this a sign. I DID!

Sincerely, Jerry Proctor.

 


This program really works. I live outside the US, in Europe and at first I had doubts, I wasn't sure if it would work and so I didn't take it very seriously. But after a while I figured "Why not?". After all, I can't loose much. I sended the requests for the Chapters (I did everything just like I had to because I wanted to do everything right, so if it wouldn't work it wouldn't be my fault, but the program's) and waited. After a while the Chapters arrived by e-mail and I read them several times, they gave me precise information on how to let the program work and after I knew it all, I started my work. I started searching e-mail addresses everywhere (sites, magazines,...) and made long lists (I really enjoyed this because it was like a new hobby and I had nothing to loose). like crazy I started sending e-mail to people all over the world. I kept doing this and checked the mail every day. After two weeks orders started to arrive. I remember the moment when I went to the mailbox and I found the first order for Chapter#1. I just stood there for a moment and I said to myself: "this works, this thing f..... works!!!" I was so happy that I started sending even more e-mails. The next day, nothing in the mail, I thought "maybe this is it" and I was a bit dissapointed but the next day I received 3 orders for Chapter#1. I sended the Chapters to those people so they could start making money too (for them and for me). Two weeks later I was sitting almost 30 minutes a day before my computer sending Chapters to people that had ordered them. In these two weeks I received 39 orders for Chapter#1. Profit so far: about 240 dollars. After that orders came faster and faster, every week I got hundreds of orders and the dollars kept coming. In total I received 124'000 dollars. can You believe this??? Last week I bought a new motorcycle and I owe it all to this program. if You're reading this letter right now and You're not sure whether to participate or not I can only say one thing: TRY IT, You won't regret. This is Your chance, take it now or You will be sorry for the rest of Your live.

H.J. Moines, France.

 


The main reason for this letter is to convince You that this system is honest, lawful, extremely profitable, and is a way to get a large amount of money in a short time. I was approached several times before I checked this out. I joined just to see what one could expect in return for the minimal effort and money required. To my astonishment, I received $136,470 in the first 14 weeks, with money still coming in.

Charles Morris, Esq.

 


Not being the gambling type, it took me several weeks to make up my mind to participate in this plan. But conservative that I am, I decided that the initial investment was so little that there was just no way that I wouldn't get enough orders to at least get my money back. Boy, was I surprised when I found my medium-size mailbox crammed with orders! For awhile, it got so overloaded that I had to start picking up my mail at the window. I'll make more money this year than any 10 years of my life before. The nice thing about this deal is that it doesn't matter where people live. There simply isn't a better investment with a faster return.

Paige Willis, Des Moines, IA.

 


I had received this program before. I deleted it, but later I wondered if I shouldn't have given it a try. Of course, I had no idea who to contact to get another copy, so I had to wait until I was e-mailed another program, ...11 months passed then it came... I didn't delete this one! I made more than $141,000 on the first try!!

Violet Wilson, Johnstown, PA.

 


This is my third time to participate in this plan. We have quit our jobs, and will soon buy a home on the beach and live off the interest on our money. The only way on earth that this plan will work for You is if You do it. For Your sake, and for Your family's sake don't pass up this golden opportunity. Good luck and happy spending!

Kerry Ford, Centerport, NY.

We wait for Your responses. Send them to the main office.
What is the 6X6?
 
 


So, let’s start earning heaps of money without leaving the house! "This is my chance!", - You exclaim having realized that is not necessary to go anywhere and to persuade somebody - only send advertising letters and receive profits! "And what is necessary to do for this purpose?" - the question is inevitable. Earning a heap of money - from $100,000 up to $1,000,000 - for the beginning You must be registered at the main office of the 6X6 MLM Corporation and receive a personal registration number. Having entered in 6X6, You become the distributor of the Chapters - detailed descriptions of work with business system 6X6 and optimization the computer. Clients of Your business become the people that will be interested in these Chapters. And the Chapters should interest them! People will be interested in business itself and all this is a guaranty that people certainly shall respond to Your letter. What is this letter? This is the advertising letter which You'll receive from the main office of the 6X6 MLM Corporation after the registration (it differs from the letter which You are reading now by the presence of Your registration number in the business table). You simply send it to a lot of people. How to find the endless amount of e-mails, how automatically send the advertising letter to them and many other things You will find out in the Chapters. If You are worried where to find so many e-mail addresses don’t bother. There are more than 15,000 new people connecting to the Internet daily!!! It'll be enough for everybody!!! After You send the application for registration, a letter will be sent to You, containing:

1) Your registration number,

2) The advertising letter with Your registration number in the business table. In the future You'll send this letter to thousands of recipients,

3) Postal addresses or bank accounts of other participants of the business system. It is necessary for You to order the Chapters from them, each Chapter from different participant (excepting the Master) according to the deciphered business table, that You had an opportunity to sell them to the customers.

Together with it You will also receive other instructions. Well the thing You'll have to do now is to catch the essence of the algorithm below. So, You have all Chapters and You have to send the letter which contains the foreword to these surprising Chapters as the advertisement. Having read it, the person who has received the letter from You will certainly want to enter to the business system 6X6 and read all Chapters. But even if suddenly he will not want to read the Chapters he'll certainly become interested in a unique opportunity to earn millions practically without any expenses, both on money and on time! I agree, it is just impossible to refuse it! Approximately in 2 weeks from the date of Your first mailing You will receive orders for the first Chapter and a payment for it ($6 for each Chapter) from 30 persons or even more. Thus, Your first income will be $180 or more. This is only the beginning! At registration You will be automatically included in a lottery from iWin Lotto - one of the most popular companies engaged in lotto-business in the World, the main prize is $5,000,000 (it is also played 5 prizes on $1,000,000, 100 prizes on $100,000 and more than 5,000 branded T-shirts from 6X6 MLM Corp., draws are carried out every month) – as much orders You get on Chapter#1, as much chances to win the main prize. Do You see?!!! All that is required of You is to send more advertising letters. All Your work will be to go to the bank from time to time or check Your mailbox for cash, and at home, in silence to count up everytime increasing profit! The guarantor of Your dizzy success and reliable ally becomes the most grandiose in the world computer superprogram 6X6!!!
 

THE CHAPTERS
 
 


The Chapters are the most detailed description of the business system 6X6, they are advices about the way to optimize the work with the system and adjust the computer for it. Having read them You will understand how to improve a connection with the Internet, how to find 5,000 to 20,000 e-mail addresses per day, to sort them, to send 5,000 to 20,000 advertising letters per day, how to increase productivity of the computer on 50% and many others interesting things, not applying special efforts.

The Chapters are written in language that is clear for the users of any levels, therefore for working with the business system 6X6 You don't need to be a programmer or even have computer experience. Moreover, if You have begun to work with the computer just yesterday and don't know anything about it, You should read attentively the Chapters and work some time with the business system 6X6. Thus You will soon become an advanced user who knows everything about Windows and the Internet. In addition You also get the special software with each Chapter that is necessary for work and certain amount of e-mail addresses.

The list of the Chapters:

Chapter#1 “Introduction to business system 6Х6. Optimization of the Internet connection. How to use the Internet much more effectively.”

+20,000 e-mails
+software for automatic reconnecting to the Internet and its complete description.

Chapter#2 “How to find 5,000 to 20,000 e-mails per day, working about 30-40 minutes.”

+10,000 e-mails
+software for automatic inclusion/deenergizing of the program for e-mails searching at connection/break of connection with the Internet described in the previous Chapter.

Chapter#3 “How to sort e-mails.”

+10,000 e-mails
+software for automatic e-mails searching described in the previous Chapter.

Chapter#4 “How to send 5,000 to 20,000 thousand advertising letters per day, working the same 30-40 minutes.”

+10,000 e-mails
+software for fast e-mails sorting described in the previous Chapter.

Chapter#5 “The most effective algorithm of the work with the business system 6X6.”

+80,000 e-mails (!)
+software for automatic sending a huge amount of the advertising letters with attachments described in the previous Chapter.

Chapter#6 “Optimize Your computer, raise its productivity on 50%.”

+100,000 e-mails (!)
+the server part of the software for automatic sending a huge amount of the advertising letters with attachments.

THE RULES OF THE PARTICIPATION IN THE BUSINESS SYSTEM 6X6
 
 


The terms:

The master – Igor Tichtchenkov, the founder of the business system;

referrer – the participant of 6X6 from that You have received this advertising letter and should order the Chapter;

client – the owner of e-mail address where You send the advertising letter;

referral – the participant of 6X6 who has ordered from You the Chapter.

How does the business system 6X6 work
 
 


The following system was developed to earn not only from the direct sales (i.e. when You sell the Chapter#1 to Your referrals) but also from the sales of the referrals (i.e. when Your referrals bring to You buyers on Chapter#2 - Chapter#6). There is a following table (so-called the business table) in the advertising letter:

Chapter#1...............referrer nr.1
Chapter#2...............referrer nr.2
Chapter#3...............referrer nr.3
Chapter#4...............referrer nr.4
Chapter#5...............referrer nr.5
Chapter#6...............referrer nr.6

Opposite to each Chapter there is the essential elements of different participants, i.e. You will buy the Chapter#1 from referrer nr.1, Chapter#2 from referrer nr.2, Chapter#3 from referrer nr.3, Chapter#4 from referrer nr.4, Chapter#5 from referrer nr.5, Chapter#6 from referrer nr.6. When You will be registered You'll receive the advertising letter with the business table changed as follows:

Chapter#1...............You
Chapter#2...............referrer nr.1
Chapter#3...............referrer nr.2
Chapter#4...............referrer nr.3
Chapter#5...............referrer nr.4
Chapter#6...............referrer nr.5

Then You begin to send the advertising letter with such business table. I.e. Your referrals will buy the Chapter#1 from You, Chapter#2 from referrer nr.1, Chapter#3 from referrer nr.2, Chapter#4 from referrer nr.3, Chapter#5 from referrer nr.4, Chapter#6 from referrer nr.5. Your referrals nr.1 (they who will buy Chapter#1 from You) will get similarly transformed business table:

Chapter#1...............referral nr.1
Chapter#2...............You
Chapter#3...............referrer nr.1
Chapter#4...............referrer nr.2
Chapter#5...............referrer nr.3
Chapter#6...............referrer nr.4

Then they begin to send the advertising letter with such business table. I.e. their referrals nr.1 (Your referrals nr.2) will buy the Chapter#1 from them (from Your referrals nr.1), Chapter#2 from You, Chapter#3 from referrer nr.1, Chapter#4 from referrer nr.2, Chapter#5 from referrer nr.3, Chapter#6 from referrer nr.4. And etc...

Thus Your referrals involve the clients to the Chapter#1 for themselves and also involve the clients to the other Chapters for You. That means that a direct task of each participant of business system 6X6 - to get as more as possible orders for Chapter#1.

Let's just count up how much money You will earn if each participant involves 10 referrals nr.1:

You......................10 X $6 = $60
Your referrals nr.1...10 X 10 X $6 = $600
Your referrals nr.2...10 X 10 X 10 X $6 = $6,000
Your referrals nr.3...10 X 10 X 10 X 10 X $6 = $60,000
Your referrals nr.4...10 X 10 X 10 X 10 X 10 X $6 = $600,000
Your referrals nr.5...10 X 10 X 10 X 10 X 10 X 10 X $6 = $6,000,0000

Total You will earn $6,666,660!

The figure is not small and therefore You may have doubts. - Try to figure Yourself and You'll get the same result!

Protection against the fraud
 
 


The following protection was developed to exclude breaking of the system.

In the advertising letter there is such business table:

Chapter#1...............reg. nr. of the 1st referrer
Chapter#2...............reg. nr. of the 2nd referrer
Chapter#3...............reg. nr. of the 3rd referrer
Chapter#4...............reg. nr. of the 4th referrer
Chapter#5...............reg. nr. of the 5th referrer
Chapter#6...............reg. nr. of the 6th referrer

The client who has received this advertising letter knows only registration numbers of the referrers from that he must buy the Chapters. He can't buy all their Chapters directly because he doesn't know their requisitions.

Further he registers at the main office of 6X6 MLM Corporation and gets:

1) His registration number;

2) Addresses and bank accounts of all referrers at that he must buy the Chapters;

3) The advertising letter with the changed business table likes that:

Chapter#1...............His reg. nr.
Chapter#2...............reg. nr. of the 1st referrer
Chapter#3...............reg. nr. of the 2nd referrer
Chapter#4...............reg. nr. of the 3rd referrer
Chapter#5...............reg. nr. of the 4th referrer
Chapter#6...............reg. nr. of the 5th referrer

buys all of the Chapters and begins to send this letter.

Due to this protection he can't stop the process and leave their own referrers without their profit. The process can be stopped only if their requisitions will not be in the business table. It is possible only if he will replace requisitions of all five referrers with his requisitios. But he can't do that because for this purpose it will come to register 6 times, whereas it is possible to register only once.
 

ARE YOU READY TO START WITH THE BUSINESS SYSTEM 6X6! LET'S START!
 
 


Attention! There is an enormous amount of referrals who enter the business system 6X6 and that's why from the 1st of September 2000 the registration costs $5.

WHAT YOU NEED TO DO:

a) Register at the main office of 6X6 MLM Corporation:

1) Write on a sheet of paper:

1) Your name;
2) Your postal address for payment;
3) Your bank account for payment (optional);
4) Your e-mail - write legibly and use it only for communication with the main office;
5) The business table which is below;
6) The date.

2) Put $5 in this sheet of paper and send by the first class mail to the 6x6 MLM Corporation's main office:

Igor Tichtchenkov, Laanemere 20-96, 13913 Tallinn, Estonia.

3) Within one week You'll receive (via e-mail You have written in the registration form) the letter containing:

1) Your registration number;
2) Addresses of the referrers from that You should buy the Chapters;
3) The advertising letter with Your registration number for mailing;
4) The instructions that is necessary for beginning.

b) Buy all of the Chapters according to the business table:

Chapter Nr.
Referrer's reg. nr.
Chapter#1
6x6-000000-z-001
Chapter#2
Master 6x6
Chapter#3
Master 6x6
Chapter#4
Master 6x6
Chapter#5
Master 6x6
Chapter#6
Master 6x6

THE NOTE! If several or even all registration numbers are "Master 6X6" - there isn't any mistake. When You join You'll be at the begining of the system and undoubtedly earn the enormous amount of money! Your chances to the success are maximal!

As soon as You do this, start sending the advertising letters (more detailed information about the way to do it You will find at the Chapters). In general You should involve about 30 referrals - i.e. to sell 30 Chapters #1. But the more referrals You involve the more Your profit will be!

Try to send 3,000 or more advertising letters per day - it is very easy to do with the special software which You'll get together with the Chapters. If You can send more - do it! Remember as many advertising letters You send the more orders You will get!

The entire process lasts approximately for 4 months. If You precisely follow all the rules, You undoubtedly will be the owner of several hundreds thousand dollars! We know that it will be like that and we congratulate You!!!

And now let's start!

We wish You Great Success!!!

 
 

Copyright © 2000 6x6 MLM Corporation. All rights reserved.
Желаем Вам приятного и успешного дня!
 
Это заработок без отрыва от монитора!


Если Вы проявите некоторый интерес и терпение, а главное, разберетесь, как ЭТО работает, Вы можете хорошо заработать в течение следующих 120 дней - до $100.000 и более!!!, это зависит только от Вас. КАЖЕТСЯ НЕВОЗМОЖНЫМ?? Прочитайте данный документ и Вы убедитесь, что в этом нет никакой каверзы или обмана. Если Вы полный лентяй - просим прощение за предложение!!!,- то это не для Вас!!! Лучше занимайтесь серфингом или кликайте по баннерам или же не занимайтесь ничем.

!!!Если предложение Вас ничем не заинтересовало, приносим свои извинения и не надо сердиться. "Спам" имеет свои издержки, так же как радио и TV, но не забывайте, что сказал первый миллиардер США Дейл Карнеги:

"Я лучше буду зарабатывать 1% в результате усилий 100 человек, чем 100% в результате своих собственных усилий."


ВСТАНЬТЕ НА ПУТЬ К ФИНАНСОВОЙ НЕЗАВИСИМОСТИ И СВОБОДЕ!!!
Добро пожаловать в 6X6!
 
В это трудно поверить, но, тем не менее, это свершившийся факт! Люди богатеют на глазах! Некоторые даже месяцы спустя не могут оправиться от шока, пришедшего вместе с кучей хрустящих банкнот! Пока остальные раздумывают и сомневаются, поверившие в чудо Бизнес Системы 6Х6 купаются в деньгах!...
 
Число пользователей "всемирной паутины" растет с молниеносной быстротой. Уже сейчас только в России к сети Интернет ежедневно подключаются более 2000 человек, на Западе и в США эта цифра в несколько раз больше...
 

Copyright © 2000 6x6 MLM Corporation. All rights reserved.
ДАМЫ И ГОСПОДА!
 
 


ПРОЧТИТЕ ЭТО ВДУМЧИВО, ВНИМАТЕЛЬНО, НЕ ОТВЛЕКАЯСЬ НА ВНЕШНИЕ ШУМЫ И РАЗДРАЖИТЕЛИ, И ВЫ ПОЙМЕТЕ, ЧТО СДЕЛАЕТ ВАС ПО-НАСТОЯЩЕМУ БОГАТЫМИ И СВОБОДНЫМИ ЛЮДЬМИ!!!
 

 


В это трудно поверить, но, тем не менее, это свершившийся факт! Люди богатеют на глазах! Некоторые даже месяцы спустя не могут оправиться от шока, пришедшего вместе с кучей хрустящих банкнот! Пока остальные раздумывают и сомневаются, поверившие в чудо Бизнес Системы 6Х6 купаются в деньгах! В буквальном смысле слова! Вы когда-нибудь видели, как выглядит ворох сотенных купюр, под которым целиком умещается взрослый человек?! Это 100 тысяч долларов! Можете себе представить, как бы выглядела куча из миллиона долларов, которые зарабатывает каждый третий участник суперпрограммы 6Х6? А каково ощущение, когда ты, особо не утруждая себя работой, уже на второй неделе начинаешь получать конверты с шестью долларами, и чем дальше, тем больше! А, в конце концов, на 3-м, на 4-м месяце ты уже не знаешь, куда от них деваться! Даже дух захватывает от этой лавины денег!
 

ВСЕ, ЧТО ВАМ НУЖНО БУДЕТ ДЕЛАТЬ, ЭТО РАССЫЛАТЬ ГОТОВЫЕ ПИСЬМА ПО E-MAIL И ВРЕМЯ ОТ ВРЕМЕНИ ХОДИТЬ НА ПОЧТУ ИЛИ В БАНК ЗА ДЕНЬГАМИ! ВАМ ДАЖЕ НЕ НАДО НАПРЯГАТЬ СВОЙ МОЗГ – ЗА ВАС ВСЕ СДЕЛАЕТ КОМПЬЮТЕРНАЯ СУПЕР БИЗНЕС СИСТЕМА 6Х6!

С МОМЕНТА ВАШЕГО ВСТУПЛЕНИЯ В БИЗНЕС ПРИБЫЛЬ НАРАСТАЕТ, КАК СНЕЖНЫЙ КОМ, И К КОНЦУ 4-ГО МЕСЯЦА ВЫ ПОЛУЧИТЕ КАК МИНИМУМ 100.000 ДОЛЛАРОВ. А ЕСЛИ ВЫ НЕ ОСТАНОВИТЕСЬ НА ДОСТИГНУТОМ, ТО РЕЗУЛЬТАТОМ БУДУТ АСТРОНОМИЧЕСКИЕ 1.000.000 ДОЛЛАРОВ ЗА ГОД!


“В ЧЕМ СЕКРЕТ ТАКОГО ГОЛОВОКРУЖИТЕЛЬНОГО УСПЕХА?”, – СПРОСИТЕ ВЫ. ДЕЛО В ТОМ, ЧТО В ПРОГРАММЕ 6Х6 ЗАЛОЖЕНА НОВАЯ ФОРМУЛА, КОТОРАЯ ОБЕСПЕЧИВАЕТ 100%-НЫЙ УСПЕХ ВСЕМ УЧАСТНИКАМ БИЗНЕСА ЗА СЧЕТ УЧЕТА ТАКИХ УТОНЧЕННЫХ ФАКТОРОВ, КОТОРЫЕ ЧЕЛОВЕЧЕСКИЙ МОЗГ ПРОСТО НЕ СПОСОБЕН ОХВАТИТЬ. ПОЭТОМУ ПРОГРАММА РАБОТАЕТ! И РАБОТАЕТ БЛЕСТЯЩЕ! ЭТО – ЧУДО-СИСТЕМА, В КОТОРОЙ УСПЕХ БЕЗУМНО ЗАРАЗЕН! СПЕШИТЕ ЗАРАЗИТЬСЯ И ВЫ!
 

ВНИМАНИЕ!!!
 
 


В ЛАБОРАТОРИИ СОЦИОЛОГИЧЕСКИХ ИССЛЕДОВАНИЙ В США БЫЛ ПРОВЕДЕН ЭКСПЕРИМЕНТ: ПРОГРАММА 6Х6 БЫЛА ЗАПУЩЕНА 16 РАЗ В САМЫХ РАЗЛИЧНЫХ УСЛОВИЯХ И С САМЫМИ РАЗНЫМИ ЛЮДЬМИ В КАЧЕСТВЕ УЧАСТНИКОВ БИЗНЕСА, И ВСЕ 16 РАЗ ОНА ПРИНОСИЛА ОДИНАКОВЫЙ УСПЕХ, И НЕ БЫЛО НИ ОДНОГО ЧЕЛОВЕКА, КОТОРЫЙ БЫ ЧУВСТВОВАЛ СЕБЯ ОБДЕЛЕННЫМ И ОБИЖЕННЫМ. ТАКЖЕ СПЕЦИАЛИСТЫ ПРОИЗВЕЛИ НАУЧНЫЙ АНАЛИЗ ФЕНОМЕНА 6Х6 И УСТАНОВИЛИ, ЧТО, НЕСМОТРЯ НА ВНЕШНЕЕ СХОДСТВО, ПО СВОЕЙ МИКРОСТРУКТУРЕ ОНА В КОРНЕ ОТЛИЧАЕТСЯ ОТ СЕТЕВОГО МАРКЕТИНГА И ПРИВОДИТ К НЕСРАВНИМО БОЛЕЕ ВЫСОКИМ, А САМОЕ ГЛАВНОЕ – ДЕМОКРАТИЧНЫМ РЕЗУЛЬТАТАМ, Т.К. ВСЕ УЧАСТНИКИ ЭТОГО БИЗНЕСА ИМЕЮТ ДОХОД. СРЕДИ АМЕРИКАНСКИХ БИЗНЕСМЕНОВ ЭТА СУПЕРПРОГРАММА ПРОИЗВЕЛА НАСТОЯЩИЙ ФУРОР: ОНИ ПРОЗВАЛИ ЕЕ “DIAMOND STREAM”, ЧТО ПЕРЕВОДИТСЯ КАК “АЛМАЗНЫЙ ПОТОК”. “ПОТОК” – ПОТОМУ ЧТО ДЕНЬГИ ТЕКУТ РЕКОЙ, А “АЛМАЗНЫЙ” – ПОТОМУ ЧТО ЭТОТ УСПЕХ ТАКОЙ ЖЕ ПРОЧНЫЙ И НЕЗЫБЛЕМЫЙ, КАК АЛМАЗ!” – ОТВЕТИЛ ОДИН ИЗ БИЗНЕСМЕНОВ НА ВОПРОС КОРРЕСПОНДЕНТА “NEW-YORK TIMES”.
 

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Вы никогда не задумывались, почему большинство людей ничего не достигают в жизни, а только сетуют? Да потому что они мало на что в жизни решаются. На все у них есть готовые определения, причем сформулированные не ими самими, а услышанные от других. Но иметь свое проверенное мнение – это большая роскошь и редкость. Те же, кто не боится пробовать и живет больше действиями, чем сомнениями, очень быстро оказываются на вершине мира! Да, трудно поверить, что можно так быстро разбогатеть, трудно преодолеть свои сомнения, трудно представить себя вдруг сказочно богатым. Но поверьте, если Вы это сделаете, это станет вашим благом и вашим головокружительным успехом! Вы ведь не будете спорить с тем, что Вы достойны большого успеха и большого богатства? И поэтому Вам жизненно необходимо сделать этот шаг на встречу к финансовой независимости, к которой приведет Вас сотрудничество с суперпрограммой 6Х6! Потому что ваше время настало!
 

"Пара слов о системе..." - интервью с основателем бизнес системы 6Х6, Тищенковым И.А.
 
 


- Ввиду стремительных темпов развития сети Интернет и электронной коммерции число пользователей "всемирной паутины" растет с молниеносной быстротой. Уже сейчас только в России к сети Интернет ежедневно подключаются более 2000 человек, на Западе и в США эта цифра в несколько раз больше. С ростом числа пользователей Интернет растет и количество различного типа бизнес программ. С каждым днем они пользуются все большей популярностью и это естественно, ведь электронная коммерция - бизнес 21 века. Но бизнес система 6Х6 превосходит все остальные на несколько порядков - об этом можно судить глядя на то какой успех она приносит всем ее компаньонам. И все же в чем ее преимущество над другими бизнес программами аналогичного типа, почему она приносит успех всем ее участникам, а не только ее основателю и тем кто "стоит у истоков"?

- Да, Вы совершенно правы насчет стремительного развития электронной коммерции и появления большого количества бизнес систем аналогичных 6Х6.

Прежде чем разработать программу 6Х6 я внимательно изучил все существующие на данный момент системы и понял как они появились. Наверное все помнят те облигации, которые были так популярны у нас в 90-е годы. Так вот с развитием Интернет кто-то далекий от компьютерных технологий и знаний принципа работы "всемирной паутины" просто перенес эту программу с облигациями в сеть. Да, идея гениальна, особенно для тех времен - так Вы вряд ли найдете и 5 клиентов, в сети же можно рассылать тысячи рекламных писем. Но эта система имела множество недостатков: недокументированность того, как рассылать большое количество рекламы, где брать тысячи адресов электронной почты и т.д. Самым главным недостатком было то, что эта программа была рассчитана на слишком честных людей. В рекламном письме содержалась форма, аналогичная нашей бизнес-таблице, согласно которой вступавшие в систему должны были покупать товарные единицы системы (каждую у разного участника). Купив их они должны были ставить свои реквизиты напротив первой товарной единицы, а всех остальных сдвигать на один уровень ниже. Так как их никто не контролировал в их воле было изменять таблицу как угодно. Они открывали несколько абонентных ящиков на различные имена в разных почтовых отделениях города и ставили реквизиты этих т.н. "мертвых душ" в таблицу вместо предыдущих участников, т.е. система обрывалась. Из-за этого она работала только на 100% на первом уровне, 1% - на втором, 0,1% - на третьем и 0% - на четвертом. Практически заработок шел только с первого уровня, т.е. с прямых продаж, что при рассылке 3.000 рекламных писем в день составляло около $300 - $400 в месяц. Но суть бизнес систем такого типа - приносить максимум прибыли за счет 2-х последних уровней. Т.е. Вы рассылаете партию писем с рекламой, например, 10.000 шт., получаете 30 заказов на товарную единицу первого уровня и дальше в течение нескольких лет система работает на Вас. Но многих устраивали эти $300 - $400 в месяц, и они рассылали по 3.000 писем в день, открыв несколько абонентных ящиков и поставив свои реквизиты везде, где только можно. Так как товарные единицы по своей сути ничего не содержали, кроме названия в рекламном письме, то получалось, что работая с такой системой Вы, ко всему прочему, еще и обманывали своих клиентов.

Наверное, нет смысла описывать все остальные аналогичного типа бизнес системы - т.к. они в буквальном смысле являются копиями предыдущей. Да, именно так они и появились - копировалась суть и изменялись второстепенные факторы, такие как, названия товарных единиц, способы оплаты, содержание рекламного письма и т.д. О них всех можно сказать одно: все они "созданы" (если можно применить это слово к чистой воды плагиату) непрофессионалами, людьми далекими как от бизнеса вообще (что такое электронная коммерция - они и понятия не имеют!), так и от компьютерных технологий и сети Интернет. Но сама идея создать такого рода бизнес систему - гениальна. Особенно в наше время - время бурного развития сети Интернет и электронной коммерции. И если исключить недостатки, то такой системе цены нет! Вы только представьте себе чем будет Интернет хотя бы лет через пять!

И пусть задача была нелегкой, все же мне удалось разработать именно такую бизнес систему.

Недокументированность того где и как находить адреса электронной почты, как на них рассылать огромное количество рекламных писем и прочие технические детали я компенсировал специально разработанными программами для автоматизации этого процесса, позволившими рассылать 5-20 тысяч рекламных писем в день, затратив всего 30-40 минут собственного времени, наиподробнейшим описанием работы с ними, написанным языком понятным для пользователя любого уровня и большим количеством советов и рекомендаций. Чем по сути убил сразу двух зайцев: значительно повысил производительность бизнес системы и сделал товарные единицы не то что полезными - просто необходимыми для участника бизнес системы (впрочем, как и для любого занимающегося рекламой в сети Интернет), т.к. именно они содержат специальные программы и описание работы с ними.

Нечестность участников пресек обязательной регистрацией в главной конторе 6X6 MLM Corporation (подробнее в разделе "Защита от обмана").

Т.к. система не обрывается, добавил еще 2 уровня, т.е. всего в системе 6 уровней (по $6 за товарную единицу каждого уровня - отсюда и название "6X6").

Сделал более гибкой систему оплаты заказов. Теперь товарные единицы можно оплачивать как "традиционным" заказным авиаписьмом, так и переводом на банковский счет. Но запретил указывать в качестве адреса для оплаты абонентные ящики - во-первых, для избежания обмана, во-вторых, чтобы бизнес система не теряла своей привлекательности. Исходя из таких же соображений, запретил систему оплаты WebMoney.

Заключил договор с iWin Loto Ltd. Так что при регистрации в нашей главной конторе Вы автоматически включаетесь в лотерею, причем Ваши шансы выиграть прямо пропорциональны количеству проданных Chapter#1.
 

Отзывы наших компаньонов
 
 


Всем привет! Спешу поделиться с Вами впечатлением от программы 6Х6, чтобы Вы, не дай Бог, не прошли мимо. Письмо пришло на e-mail моему мужу. Он решил повеселить меня и позвал почитать, “какую лапшу сейчас на уши вешают”. Я не особо вникла в систему, да особо и не старалась что-то понять, потому что не верила в такого рода способы заработка, т.е. не захотела заработать 100.000 долларов. Но, к моему счастью, эта цифра все крутилась в моем мозгу и не давала спать. И все-таки, в конце концов, я решила отважно броситься на письмо. К счастью, муж его еще не стер. К своему удивлению, читая 2-й раз, я все понимала. А самое главное, что я уяснила, это то, что напрягаться-то почти не надо! И времени и денежек своих тоже почти тратить не надо. К тому же меня, как и Вас, привлекло то, что все делает компьтер и что не нужно ничему учиться, т.к. алгоритм работы подробно описан в Chapter`ах! В общем, решила я, была – не была. Попробую! За две недели я разослала около 30.000 писем и решила, что с меня хватит. Через несколько дней стали приходить заказы – пришел 31 заказ на 1-ую часть и $186 до конца месяца. “Ну, - думаю, - пошло дело”. В течение следующих двух месяцев приходили еще заказы на 1 часть и пришло около 5.000 заказов на 2,3,4 и 5 части и $30.000! ОГО! Месяц спустя у меня было уже более $110.000! Ну, а потом стало совсем классно – к нынешнему моменту деньги продолжают прибывать, а у меня одна проблема – куда бы их деть?! Я думаю, фантазия у Вас работает, и Вы можете себе представить, сколько удовольствий можно доставлять себе, имея такие деньги!

Валентина, г. Москва.

 


Здравствуйте, уважаемые господа и дамы! Не так давно – полгода назад я, так же как и Вы, сидел и читал письмо, пришедшее на мой e-mail. И, как большинство из Вас, я терзался сомнениями. Хотя, если посмотреть трезво – непонятно почему. Видно, так привык человек, всего бояться и страшиться. Да, велики были глаза у моего страха, но я решил попробовать. Ведь в самом ужасном случае я ничего не потеряю, кроме нескольких часов времени, которое и так у меня тратиться бессмысленно, а только узнаю побольше о работе компьютера и его оптимизации. К тому же я подумал, что хоть одного человека я точно найду, чтобы вернуть свои $6 за первую часть. Не буду утомлять Вас подробностями. Я просто четко и досконально выполнял все правила бизнес системы 6Х6. И в течение 4-х месяцев я заработал 120.000 долларов! И это в мои 25 лет! Теперь я буду коллекционировать произведения искусства! Об этом всегда я мечтал. Ну а сейчас я еду, не смейтесь, на Мальорку в свадебное путешествие с любимой, которая не устояла перед моим богатством. Теперь – вся жизнь впереди! Красивая и счастливая, в богатстве и роскоши с 6Х6!!!

Александр, г. Санкт-Петербург.

 


В первый раз я конкретно стормозил, удалив письмо о программе 6Х6. Я еще посмеялся над тем, что кто-то вдруг станет мне слать деньги. И как же я проклинал свою недоверчивость, когда позвонил брат из Новороссийска и рассказал мне как раз об этом бизнесе и о том, какая это классная штука! Какой я дурак! Ведь я же сам мечтал стать богатым, как же еще я могу быстро разбогатеть, если не с помощью вот такого бизнеса? И когда через месяц письмо снова нашло меня, я уже был умнее. Тут же взялся за дело и разослал около 70 тысяч писем по электронной почте. Отклик был почти мгновенным (есть еще умные люди на свете!). А от Chapter`ов с описанием я вообще обалдел, особенно от последнего! Мало того что я сразу понял как работать с системой, теперь – мой Celeron 300 работает быстрее, чем Celeron 466 моего друга! Это удивительно – тратишь не больше получаса в день на работу с 6Х6 и получаешь такие деньги!!! Короче, дальше все пошло как по маслу. Ежедневно почтальон приносил по 10 - 15 конвертов, в каждом из которых по $6! Yes-s! Эта штука заработала!!! А я еще не верил! Вот, блин, пень! Прав был брателла! А что началось потом! Когда я стал продавать 2 часть, каждый день мне приносили по 20-30 конвертов с купюрами. Ну, а когда я занялся 3, 4, 5 и 6 частями, я просто не знал куда от них деваться! На прошлой неделе я купил себе новый “Lincoln Navigator”. Классный джип! Всегда мечтал о таком! В каком бы дурном настроении я ни проснулся утром, стоит мне вспомнить о моем сверкающем на солнце джипе, я начинаю чувствовать себя самым счастливым человеком на Свете! И все – благодаря суперпрограмме 6Х6!!! Пишу это с надеждой, что мой урок неверия пойдет Вам на пользу, и вы не станете, как я в первый раз, удалять из своего компьютера это письмо, которое имеет приятное свойство превращаться в неограниченное количество денег! Удачи Вам!

Игорь, г. Волгоград.

 


Я сразу сердцем ощутила, что это мой шанс! Наконец-то исполнится заветная мечта моего детства – съездить в Америку! Я с удовольствием принялась участвовать в программе 6Х6. Но по началу сомневалась, удасться ли мне найти так много адресов e-mail. Однако, когда пришли Chapter`ы с описанием, то вместе с ними пришло объяснение, как легко, без всяких проблем можно найти сколько угодно адресов электронной почты. За месяц я разослала более 150.000 писем, и эффект не заставил себя долго ждать – я получила 68 заказов на первую главу! В конце концов, я заработала 170 тысяч долларов!!! Теперь я, пожалуй, переберусь в Америку на совсем. Сбылась моя голубая мечта! Спасибо, дорогая 6Х6! А еще спасибо за удивительное описание работы с системой. Желаю всем Вам стать такими же счастливыми, как и я, благодаря суперпрограмме 6Х6!

Марина, г. Рига.

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ЧТО ЖЕ ТАКОЕ 6Х6?
 
 


Итак, зарабатывать кучи денег, не выходя из дома! “Вот это шанс!”, – воскликните Вы, осознав, что никуда не нужно ходить, никого не нужно уговаривать, а только знай себе – посылай e-mail`ы и получай прибыль! “А что же для этого нужно делать?” – неизбежен вопрос. Для того, чтоб заработать кучу денег, а именно – 100.000 долларов и более, для начала Вам нужно будет зарегистрироваться в главной конторе 6Х6 MLM Corporation и получить свой личный регистрационный номер. Вступив в 6Х6, Вы становитесь распространителем по Интернету Chapter`ов (глав) с наиподробнейшим описанием работы с бизнес системой 6Х6 и оптимизации компьютера (подробнее о них в следующем разделе). Клиентами Вашего бизнеса становятся люди, которых эти главы заинтересуют. А главы просто не могут не заинтересовать - они содержат уникальную информацию, просто необходимую для любого, кто хочет добиться успеха в сетевом маркетинге! Кроме того, людей заинтересует сам бизнес, и все это является гарантией того, что люди непременно будут откликаться на Ваше письмо. Что это за письмо? Это – то самое письмо, которое Вы получите после регистрации в главной конторе 6Х6 MLM Corporation (отличается от письма, которое Вы сейчас читаете, присутствием Вашего регистрационного номера в бизнес-таблице). Вы просто отправляете его как можно большему количеству людей. Подробнее о том, как найти бесконечное количество e-mail`ов, автоматически разослать на них рекламное письмо и многое другое Вы узнаете непосредственно в самих главах. Если Вы думаете: “Откуда возьмется так много адресов?”, то это не стоит того, чтобы беспокоиться. Ежедневно только в России к Интернету подключаются минимум 2000 новых пользователей!!! На всех хватит! После того как Вы отправите заявку на регистрацию, Вам прийдет письмо, содержащее:

1) Ваш регистрационный номер,

2) Рекламное письмо с Вашим регистрационным номером в бизнес-таблице, которое Вы будете рассылать,

3) Реквизиты остальных участников бизнес системы 6Х6, у которых Вам необходимо заказать Chapter`ы, каждый у разного (исключение составляет только мастер) в соответствии с расшифрованной бизнес-таблицей, чтобы Вы сами имели возможность продавать их своим заказчикам.

Вместе с этим Вы получите также и дальнейшие указания программы 6Х6. Ну а то, что Вам нужно будет сделать сразу сейчас, описано ниже в виде четкого алгоритма, поэтому пока просто уловите суть. Итак, Вы обладаете всеми главами и рассылаете письмо, в котором в качестве рекламы содержится предисловие к этим удивительным главам. Прочитав его, человек, получивший от Вас письмо, непременно захочет вступить в бизнес систему 6Х6 и прочитать все главы. Но даже если вдруг он не захочет читать Chapter`ы, он наверняка заинтересуется уникальной возможностью заработать миллионы практически без всяких затрат, как по деньгам, так и по времени! Согласитесь, от этого просто невозможно отказаться! Примерно через 2 недели со дня начала рассылки Вы получите заказы на первую главу и плату за нее (в размере 6 долларов США) от 30-ти человек и более. Таким образом, Ваш первый доход составит минимум – $180. И это – только начало! При регистрации Вы будете автоматически включены в лотерею от iWin Loto - одной из самых популярных на Западе и в США компаний занимающихся лото-бизнесом, главный приз которой - $5.000.000 (также разыгрывается 5 призов по $1.000.000, 100 призов по $100.000 и более 5 тысяч фирменных футболок от 6Х6 MLM Corporation, розыгрыши проводятся каждый месяц) – чем больше Вы получите заказов на Chapter#1, тем больше шансов выиграть главный приз. Вы видите?!!! Все, что от Вас требуется, это разослать побольше рекламных писем. Вся Ваша работа будет заключаться только в том, чтобы время от времени проверять свой почтовый ящик или ходить в банк за наличными и дома, в тишине подсчитывать все нарастающую прибыль! Гарантом Вашего головокружительного успеха и надежным союзником становится самая грандиозная в мире компьютерная суперпрограмма 6Х6!!!
 

CHAPTER`Ы
 
 


Chapter`ы (или главы) – это подробнейшее описание бизнес системы 6Х6, советы о том как оптимально работать с системой и настроить для этого свой компьютер. Прочитав их Вы поймете как не прилагая особых усилий улучшить связь с Интернет, находить по 5-20 тыс. e-mail`ов в день, обрабатывать их, рассылать по 5-20 рекламных писем в день, повысить производительность своего компьютера на 50% и многое другое.

Chapter`ы написаны языком понятным для пользователя любого уровня, поэтому для работы с бизнес системой 6Х6 Вам не нужно быть программистом или иметь опыт работы с компьютером. Более того, если Вы только вчера сели за компьютер и вообще не знаете ничего о работе с ним, то прочитав внимательно главы и поработав некоторое время с бизнес системой 6Х6 Вы вскоре станете продвинутым пользователем, знающим все об операционной системе Windows и Интернете. Кроме того к каждой главе прилагается программа для работы с системой 6Х6 и некоторое количество e-mail`ов.

Список Chapter`ов:

Chapter#1 “Введение в бизнес систему 6Х6. Оптимизация интернет соединения. Рациональное использование интернет времени.”

+20.000 e-mail адресов
+программа для поддержки стабильного соединения с Интернет, автоматического восстановления связи при ее обрывах, дозвоне/разрыве связи в заданное время и запуске дополнительных програм при начале соединения и разрывах связи/перезвонах, и полное описание работы с программой.

Chapter#2 “Как находить 5-20 тысяч e-mail адресов в день, сидя за компьютером 30-40 минут.”

+10.000 e-mail адресов
+программа для автоматического включения/выключения программы для поиска e-mail`ов при соединении/разрыве связи с Интернет, подробно описанная в предыдущей главе.

Chapter#3 “Как обрабатывать найденные e-mail адреса.”

+10.000 e-mail адресов
+программа для автоматического поиска e-mail адресов, подробно описанная в предыдущей главе.

Chapter#4 “Как рассылать по 5-20 тысяч рекламных писем в день, сидя за компьютером все те же 30-40 минут.”

+10.000 e-mail адресов
+программа для быстрой обработки e-mail адресов, подробно описанная в предыдущей главе.

Chapter#5 “Алгоритм работы, или как наиболее эффективно использовать бизнес систему 6Х6.”

+80.000 e-mail адресов (!)
+программа для автоматической рассылки огромного количества рекламных писем с вложениями, подробно описанная в предыдущей главе.

Chapter#6 “Оптимизируем Ваш компьютер, повышаем его производительность на 50%, или как заставить Pentium 166 работать как Pentium II-300.”

+100.000 e-mail адресов (!)
+Серверная часть программы для автоматической рассылки огромного количества рекламных писем с вложениями, подробно описанная в 4-ой главе.

ПРАВИЛА УЧАСТИЯ В ПРОГРАММЕ 6Х6
 
 


Термины:

Мастер – Тищенков Игорь Александрович, основатель бизнес системы;

реферер – участник 6Х6, от которого Вы получили это письмо и у которого Вы должны заказать Chapter;

клиент – хозяин e-mail, на который Вы отправляете письмо;

реферал – участник 6Х6, который заказал у Вас Chapter.

Как работает бизнес система 6Х6
 
 


Для того, чтобы зарабатывать не только с прямых продаж (т.е. когда Вы сами продаете Chapter#1 свои рефералам), но и с продаж своих рефералов (т.е. когда Ваши рефералы приводят Вам покупателей на Chapter#2 - Chapter#6) была разработана следующая система – в рекламном письме содержится такая таблица (т.н. бизнес-таблица):

Chapter#1...............реферер №1
Chapter#2...............реферер №2
Chapter#3...............реферер №3
Chapter#4...............реферер №4
Chapter#5...............реферер №5
Chapter#6...............реферер №6

Напротив каждого Chapter`а стоят реквизиты разных людей, т.е. Вы будете покупать Chapter#1 у реферера №1, Chapter#2 у реферера №2, Chapter#3 у реферера №3, Chapter#4 у реферера №4, Chapter#5 у реферера №5, Chapter#6 у реферера №6. Зарегистрировавшись Вы получите рекламное письмо с бизнес-таблицей, измененной следующим образом:

Chapter#1...............Вы
Chapter#2...............реферер №1
Chapter#3...............реферер №2
Chapter#4...............реферер №3
Chapter#5...............реферер №4
Chapter#6...............реферер №5

И начнете рассылать рекламное письмо с такой бизнес-таблицей. Т.е. Ваши рефералы будут покупать у Вас Chapter#1, у реферера №1 – Chapter#2, у реферера №2 – Chapter#3, у реферера №3 – Chapter#4, у реферера №4 – Chapter#5, у реферера №5 – Chapter#6. Ваши рефералы №1 (те, кто купят у Вас Chapter#1) при регистрации получат рекламное письмо с аналогично преобразованной бизнес-таблицей:

Chapter#1...............реферал №1
Chapter#2...............Вы
Chapter#3...............реферер №1
Chapter#4...............реферер №2
Chapter#5...............реферер №3
Chapter#6...............реферер №4

И начнут рассылать рекламное письмо с такой бизнес-таблицей. Т.е. их рефералы №1 (Ваши рефералы №2) будут покупать Chapter#1 у них (Ваших рефералов №1), Chapter#2 – у Вас, Chapter#3 – у реферера №1, Chapter#4 – у реферера №2, Chapter#5 – у реферера №3, Chapter#6 – у реферера №4. И т.д...

Т.е. таким вот образом Ваши рефералы, привлекая себе клиентов на Chapter#1 будут одновременно привлекать Вам клиентов на Chapter#2 - Chapter#6. Отсюда следует, что прямой задачей каждого участника бизнес системы 6Х6 является привлечение покупателей на Chapter#1 – рефералов №1.

Теперь давайте просто прикинем, сколько денег Вы заработаете если каждый участник привлечет по 10 рефералов №1:

Вы...........................10 Х $6 = $60
Ваши рефералы №1...10 X 10 X $6 = $600
Ваши рефералы №2...10 X 10 X 10 X $6 = $6.000
Ваши рефералы №3...10 X 10 X 10 X 10 X $6 = $60.000
Ваши рефералы №4...10 X 10 X 10 X 10 X 10 X $6 = $600.000
Ваши рефералы №5...10 X 10 X 10 X 10 X 10 X 10 X $6 = $6.000.0000

Т.е. всего Вы заработаете $6.666.660!

Цифра не малая и возможно поэтому у Вас возникнут сомнения. - Вникните в рассчеты и в суть работы системы, просчитайте все сами и Вы получите тот же результат!

Защита от обмана
 
 


Для того, чтобы исключить обрываемость системы была разработана следующая защита:

В рекламное письмо помещается такая бизнес-таблица:

Chapter#1...............регистр. номер реферера №1
Chapter#2...............регистр. номер реферера №2
Chapter#3...............регистр. номер реферера №3
Chapter#4...............регистр. номер реферера №4
Chapter#5...............регистр. номер реферера №5
Chapter#6...............регистр. номер реферера №6

Т.е. клиент к которому пришло это рекламное письмо знает только регистрационные номера рефереров у которых он должен купить Chapter`ы. Купить все Chapter`ы у них напрямую в данный момент он не может так как не знает их реквизитов.

Далее он регистрируется в главной конторе 6Х6 MLM Corporation и получает:

1) Cвой регистрационный номер.

2) Адреса всех рефереров, у которых должен купить Chapter#1 - Chapter#6.

3) Рекламное письмо для рассылки с измененной бизнес-таблицей следующего вида:

Chapter#1...............регистр. номер данного клиента
Chapter#2...............регистр. номер реферера №1
Chapter#3...............регистр. номер реферера №2
Chapter#4...............регистр. номер реферера №3
Chapter#5...............регистр. номер реферера №4
Chapter#6...............регистр. номер реферера №5

покупает все Chapter`ы и начинает рассылку.

Благодаря этой защите, он просто не может оборвать цепь и оставить своих рефереров без причитающейся им прибыли. Ведь цепь может оборваться только тогда, когда их реквизитов не будет в бизнес-таблице. Что возможно, только если он заменит реквизиты всех пяти рефереров своими реквизитами. Чего он сделать просто не может, т.к. для этого ему придется зарегистрироваться еще пять раз, тогда как регистрироваться можно только один раз.
 

ВЫ ГОТОВЫ НАЧАТЬ БИЗНЕС С 6Х6?!
ИТАК, ПРИСТУПАЕМ!
 
 


Внимание! В связи с огромным притоком рефералов с 1/IX-2000 регистрация стала платной и стоит 5 долларов США.

ЧТО ВАМ НЕОБХОДИМО СДЕЛАТЬ:

а) Зарегистрируйтесь в главной конторе 6Х6 MLM Corporation:

1) Напишите на листе бумаги (английскими буквами):

1) Ваши Ф.И.О.,
2) Почтовый адрес для оплаты,
3) Банковские реквизиты для оплаты (необязательно),
4) Ваш e-mail - пишите разборчиво и в дальнейшем используйте его только для связи с главной конторой 6Х6,
5) Находящуюся ниже бизнес-таблицу в регистрационно-номерном виде,
6) Дату отправления письма.

2) Вложите в него $5 и отправьте по почте заказным авиаписьмом на адрес главной конторы 6x6 MLM Corporation:

Igor Tichtchenkov, Laanemere 20-96, 13913 Tallinn, Estonia.

3) В течение недели Вам прийдет (на e-mail, который Вы указали в регистрационной форме) письмо, содержащее:

1) Ваш регистрационный номер.
2) Адреса всех рефереров, у которых Вы должны купить Chapter`ы.
3) Рекламное письмо с измененной бизнес-таблицей, содержащей Ваш регистрационный номер, которое Вы будете рассылать.
4) Необходимые для начала работы инструкции.

б) Сразу купите Chapter`ы в соответствии с бизнес-таблицей:

Глава №
Рег. № Реферера
Chapter#1
6x6-000000-z-001
Chapter#2
Master 6x6
Chapter#3
Master 6x6
Chapter#4
Master 6x6
Chapter#5
Master 6x6
Chapter#6
Master 6x6

ПРИМЕЧАНИЕ! Если в бизнес-таблице несколько или даже все регитрационные номера - Master 6x6, то никакой ошибки в этом нет, просто Вам повезло т.к. присоединившись Вы будете в самом начале бизнес системы - т.е. Ваши шансы на успех максимальны.

Как только Вы это сделаете сразу начинайте рассылку. Подробнее об этом Вы узнаете непосредственно из Chapter`ов. Всего Вам желательно привлечь около 30 рефералов №1 - т.е. продать 30 Chapter#1. Хотя чем больше Вы их привлечете, тем больше прибыли получите.

Постарайтесь рассылать не менее 3.000 рекламных писем в день (со специальными программами, которые Вы получите вместе с Chapter`ами, не составит труда рассылать и по 20.000 писем в день). Если можете больше, рассылайте больше (подробнее в Chapter#5).

О дальнейших шагах Вы узнаете в Chapter`ах. Весь процесс растягивается примерно на 4 месяца со дня начала бизнеса. Если Вы будете четко следовать всем правилам, то вне всяких сомнений будете обладателем нескольких сотен тысяч долларов! Мы знаем, что это будет именно так, и нам остается только поздравить Вас!

А теперь за дело!

Желаем Вам огромных успехов!!!

 
 

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