From bryner@uiuc.edu Sat May 1 00:39:01 1999 From: bryner@uiuc.edu (Brian Ryner) Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 18:39:01 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Error/crash in admindb - Solved Message-ID: <372A3F15.3214C666@uiuc.edu> First of all, the bug I reported earlier happens if you access this URL: http://host/mailman/admindb/ <-- note trailing slash It tries to cause an "Invalid options to CGI script" error, but can't because of the typo in Mailman/Cgi/admindb.py, line 77: doc.AddItem(eader(2, "Invalid options to CGI script.")) where Header is misspelled. That fixed the crash. But I think that this URL (admindb/) should work just like admindb without the slash -- it should say that you must specify a list. -Brian Ryner bryner@uiuc.edu From dragondm@integral.org Sat May 1 23:20:37 1999 From: dragondm@integral.org (The Dragon De Monsyne) Date: Sat, 1 May 1999 17:20:37 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [Mailman-Developers] mailman does not work with exim and python 1.5.2 In-Reply-To: <14118.11835.729973.250910@anthem.cnri.reston.va.us> Message-ID: (sorry fer th' delay, I'm on vacation & net access is scarce) On Tue, 27 Apr 1999, Barry A. Warsaw wrote: > > Oh dang. I just remembered that smtplib.py has a patch by Per > Cederqvist post Python 1.5.2. I'm going to copy that version to > Mailman/pythonlib and use it unconditionally. Dragon, how's that > sound? Should be fine , i've seen that patch (if it's the one I'm thinking of) Eventually that patch should be put in the std python lib sometime (1.5.3?) -The Dragon De Monsyne From bwarsaw@cnri.reston.va.us (Barry A. Warsaw) Sat May 1 23:34:54 1999 From: bwarsaw@cnri.reston.va.us (Barry A. Warsaw) (Barry A. Warsaw) Date: Sat, 1 May 1999 18:34:54 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Error/crash in admindb - 1.0b11 References: <3729DFC3.C3CF4F6E@uiuc.edu> Message-ID: <14123.33166.87250.152089@anthem.cnri.reston.va.us> >>>>> "BR" == Brian Ryner writes: BR> Also, is there a way that I can turn off the extraneous BR> debugging information sent to the WWW client, and have it just BR> be put in the log? The fact that it dumps so much information BR> about the system could be seen as a security risk. Not without hacking the driver script. -Barry From bwarsaw@cnri.reston.va.us (Barry A. Warsaw) Sat May 1 23:35:42 1999 From: bwarsaw@cnri.reston.va.us (Barry A. Warsaw) (Barry A. Warsaw) Date: Sat, 1 May 1999 18:35:42 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Error/crash in admindb - Solved References: <372A3F15.3214C666@uiuc.edu> Message-ID: <14123.33214.28986.233886@anthem.cnri.reston.va.us> >>>>> "BR" == Brian Ryner writes: BR> First of all, the bug I reported earlier happens if you access BR> this URL: BR> http://host/mailman/admindb/ <-- note trailing slash BR> It tries to cause an "Invalid options to CGI script" error, BR> but can't because of the typo in Mailman/Cgi/admindb.py, line BR> 77: BR> doc.AddItem(eader(2, "Invalid options to CGI script.")) BR> where Header is misspelled. That fixed the crash. But I BR> think that this URL (admindb/) should work just like admindb BR> without the slash -- it should say that you must specify a BR> list. Thanks for the bug report. It looks like Ken's fixed both problems for the next release. -Barry From bwarsaw@python.org Sun May 2 00:14:20 1999 From: bwarsaw@python.org (Barry A. Warsaw) Date: Sat, 1 May 1999 19:14:20 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Mailman-Developers] mailman does not work with exim and python 1.5.2 References: <14118.11835.729973.250910@anthem.cnri.reston.va.us> Message-ID: <14123.35532.365846.496272@anthem.cnri.reston.va.us> >>>>> "TDDM" == The Dragon De Monsyne writes: Dragon> Should be fine , i've seen that patch (if it's the one Dragon> I'm thinking of) Eventually that patch should be put in Dragon> the std python lib sometime (1.5.3?) It should be in there (that's where I snagged it from). Thanks, -Barry From bwarsaw@cnri.reston.va.us (Barry A. Warsaw) Mon May 3 00:51:19 1999 From: bwarsaw@cnri.reston.va.us (Barry A. Warsaw) (Barry A. Warsaw) Date: Sun, 2 May 1999 19:51:19 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Mailman-Developers] dots in list name -> archive not accessible? References: <199904211753.TAA23396@maestria.wu-wien.ac.at> Message-ID: <14124.58615.813020.708748@anthem.cnri.reston.va.us> >>>>> "GG" == Gerhard Gonter writes: GG> Once upon a time, one group of users decided that they need a GG> list called Assistent/Inn/En@wu-wien.ac.at and it took me a GG> while to convince them, that the / would not work so they GG> accepted Assistent.Inn.En@wu-wien.ac.at which worked quite GG> well on Listproc... GG> Today I moved the list, everything went fine except that the GG> archives were not accessible from the list overview page. This will be fixed in the next release. Thanks. -Barry From dick@acm.org Mon May 3 10:23:58 1999 From: dick@acm.org (Dick Porter) Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 10:23:58 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Separating executables from data Message-ID: <19990503102358.B8800@iidick.swan.ac.uk> --oOB74oR0WcNeq9Zb Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Attached is a patch against v1.0b11 which allows me to configure mailman with all executables installed on a read-only filesystem. The patch also has a few tests in configure.in nobbled, because I build on a different machine to the one that runs lists. (The mailman uid and gid tests seem to be superfluous anyway, as the only time the results are used in the code is in a Makefile rule that is never called). The FQDN and URL parameters have been hard-coded to a fixed string that I then edit with sed on the target machine when I install the RPM. I have left these changes in for completeness. I also include my RPM spec file. It has some vaguely interesting parts that are probably specific to my configuration (ie executables have to be in a directory owned by root and not writable by anyone else, due to Trusted Path Execution patches, and the mm_cfg.py has to be on a writable filesystem, hence the symlink into /etc) Even if these patches don't make it into the code, I'd appreciate it if someone could point out any potential problems with my configuration :-) - Dick PS I would have submitted these patches by jitterbug, but I couldn't see any way of attaching files there. --oOB74oR0WcNeq9Zb Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="mailman-1.0b11-uid+spool.patch" diff -ur -x configure mailman-1.0b11-orig/Mailman/Defaults.py.in mailman-1.0b11/Mailman/Defaults.py.in --- mailman-1.0b11-orig/Mailman/Defaults.py.in Tue Mar 30 19:42:22 1999 +++ mailman-1.0b11/Mailman/Defaults.py.in Thu Apr 29 11:54:07 1999 @@ -249,6 +249,7 @@ PYTHON = '@PYTHON@' PREFIX = '@prefix@' EXEC_PREFIX = '@exec_prefix@' +SPOOL_PREFIX = '@SPOOL_PREFIX@' # Work around a bogus autoconf 2.12 bug if EXEC_PREFIX == '${prefix}': @@ -283,17 +284,17 @@ ConcealSubscription = 16 -LIST_DATA_DIR = os.path.join(PREFIX, 'lists') +LIST_DATA_DIR = os.path.join(SPOOL_PREFIX, 'lists') HTML_DIR = os.path.join(PREFIX, 'public_html') CGI_DIR = os.path.join(EXEC_PREFIX, 'cgi-bin') -LOG_DIR = os.path.join(PREFIX, 'logs') -LOCK_DIR = os.path.join(PREFIX, 'locks') -DATA_DIR = os.path.join(PREFIX, 'data') +LOG_DIR = os.path.join(SPOOL_PREFIX, 'logs') +LOCK_DIR = os.path.join(SPOOL_PREFIX, 'locks') +DATA_DIR = os.path.join(SPOOL_PREFIX, 'data') WRAPPER_DIR = os.path.join(EXEC_PREFIX, 'mail') SCRIPTS_DIR = os.path.join(PREFIX, 'scripts') TEMPLATE_DIR = os.path.join(PREFIX, 'templates') -PUBLIC_ARCHIVE_FILE_DIR = os.path.join(PREFIX, 'archives/public') -PRIVATE_ARCHIVE_FILE_DIR = os.path.join(PREFIX, 'archives/private') +PUBLIC_ARCHIVE_FILE_DIR = os.path.join(SPOOL_PREFIX, 'archives/public') +PRIVATE_ARCHIVE_FILE_DIR = os.path.join(SPOOL_PREFIX, 'archives/private') # The Mailman version, also set by configure VERSION = "1.0b11" diff -ur -x configure mailman-1.0b11-orig/Makefile.in mailman-1.0b11/Makefile.in --- mailman-1.0b11-orig/Makefile.in Tue Mar 23 16:56:40 1999 +++ mailman-1.0b11/Makefile.in Thu Apr 29 13:47:24 1999 @@ -27,6 +27,7 @@ bindir= @bindir@ prefix= @prefix@ exec_prefix= @exec_prefix@ +SPOOL_PREFIX= @SPOOL_PREFIX@ CC= @CC@ INSTALL= @INSTALL@ @@ -41,11 +42,11 @@ OPT= @OPT@ CFLAGS= $(OPT) $(DEFS) -ARCH_INDEP_DIRS= logs archives bin \ - lists locks templates scripts filters cron data \ - archives/private archives/public \ +ARCH_INDEP_DIRS= bin \ + templates scripts filters cron \ Mailman Mailman/Cgi Mailman/Logging Mailman/Archiver Mailman/pythonlib ARCH_DEP_DIRS= cgi-bin mail +SPOOL_DIRS= logs archives lists locks data archives/private archives/public # Directories make should decend into SUBDIRS= bin cron filters mail misc Mailman scripts src templates @@ -84,7 +85,19 @@ else true; \ fi; \ done - chmod o-r $(prefix)/archives/private + @echo "Creating spool directories..." + @for d in $(SPOOL_DIRS); \ + do \ + dir=$(SPOOL_PREFIX)/$$d; \ + if test ! -d $$dir; then \ + echo "Creating directory hierarchy $$dir"; \ + ./mkinstalldirs $$dir; \ + chmod $(DIRMODE) $$dir; \ + $(DIRSETGID) $$dir; \ + else true; \ + fi; \ + done + chmod o-r $(SPOOL_PREFIX)/archives/private @echo "Creating architecture dependent directories..." @for d in $(ARCH_DEP_DIRS); \ do \ @@ -101,7 +114,7 @@ do \ (cd $$d; $(MAKE) install); \ done - $(PYTHON) -c 'import compileall; compileall.compile_dir("$(prefix)")' + #$(PYTHON) -c 'import compileall; compileall.compile_dir("$(prefix)")' @echo "*****" @echo "***** If you are installing over an old installation, please" @echo "***** run \"make update\". See the UPGRADING file for details." diff -ur -x configure mailman-1.0b11-orig/configure.in mailman-1.0b11/configure.in --- mailman-1.0b11-orig/configure.in Sun Feb 28 00:24:21 1999 +++ mailman-1.0b11/configure.in Thu Apr 29 11:54:07 1999 @@ -167,82 +167,82 @@ rm -f conftest.out conftest.py]) # User `mailman' must exist -AC_MSG_CHECKING(for mailman UID) -MM_FIND_USER_ID(MAILMAN_UID, mailman) -if test -z "$MAILMAN_UID" -then - AC_MSG_ERROR([ -***** No \"mailman\" user found! -***** Your system must have a \"mailman\" user defined (usually -***** in your /etc/passwd file). Please see the INSTALL file -***** file details.]) -fi +#AC_MSG_CHECKING(for mailman UID) +#MM_FIND_USER_ID(MAILMAN_UID, mailman) +#if test -z "$MAILMAN_UID" +#then +# AC_MSG_ERROR([ +#***** No \"mailman\" user found! +#***** Your system must have a \"mailman\" user defined (usually +#***** in your /etc/passwd file). Please see the INSTALL file +#***** file details.]) +#fi # Group `mailman' must exist -AC_MSG_CHECKING(for mailman GID) -MM_FIND_GROUP_ID(MAILMAN_GID, mailman) -if test -z "$MAILMAN_GID" -then - AC_MSG_ERROR([ -***** No \"mailman\" group found! -***** Your system must have a \"mailman\" group defined (usually -***** in your /etc/group file). Please see the INSTALL file -***** file details.]) -fi +#AC_MSG_CHECKING(for mailman GID) +#MM_FIND_GROUP_ID(MAILMAN_GID, mailman) +#if test -z "$MAILMAN_GID" +#then +# AC_MSG_ERROR([ +#***** No \"mailman\" group found! +#***** Your system must have a \"mailman\" group defined (usually +#***** in your /etc/group file). Please see the INSTALL file +#***** file details.]) +#fi # Now make sure that $prefix is set up correctly. It must be group # owned by `mailman', it must have the group sticky bit set, and it # must be a+rx -if test "$prefix" = "NONE" -then - prefixcheck=$ac_default_prefix -else - prefixcheck=$prefix -fi - -AC_MSG_CHECKING(permissions on $prefixcheck) -changequote(,) -cat > conftest.py < gid: - problems.append("Directory must be owned by group mailman: " + prefix) - if (mode & S_ISGID) <> S_ISGID: - problems.append("Set-gid bit must be set for directory: " +prefix) - perms = S_IRWXU | S_IRWXG | S_IROTH | S_IXOTH - if (mode & perms) <> perms: - problems.append("Permissions should be at least 0775: " + prefix) -if not problems: - msg = "okay\n" -else: - msg = '***** ' + string.join(problems, '\n***** ') + '\n' -fp = open("conftest.out", "w") -fp.write(msg) -fp.close() -EOF -changequote([, ]) -$PYTHON conftest.py -status=`cat conftest.out` -rm -f conftest.out conftest.py -if test "$status" != "okay" -then - AC_MSG_ERROR([ -***** Installation directory $prefixcheck is not configured properly! -$status]) -fi - -AC_MSG_RESULT(okay) +#if test "$prefix" = "NONE" +#then +# prefixcheck=$ac_default_prefix +#else +# prefixcheck=$prefix +#fi + +#AC_MSG_CHECKING(permissions on $prefixcheck) +#changequote(,) +#cat > conftest.py < gid: +# problems.append("Directory must be owned by group mailman: " + prefix) +# if (mode & S_ISGID) <> S_ISGID: +# problems.append("Set-gid bit must be set for directory: " +prefix) +# perms = S_IRWXU | S_IRWXG | S_IROTH | S_IXOTH +# if (mode & perms) <> perms: +# problems.append("Permissions should be at least 0775: " + prefix) +#if not problems: +# msg = "okay\n" +#else: +# msg = '***** ' + string.join(problems, '\n***** ') + '\n' +#fp = open("conftest.out", "w") +#fp.write(msg) +#fp.close() +#EOF +#changequote([, ]) +#$PYTHON conftest.py +#status=`cat conftest.out` +#rm -f conftest.out conftest.py +#if test "$status" != "okay" +#then +# AC_MSG_ERROR([ +#***** Installation directory $prefixcheck is not configured properly! +#$status]) +#fi +# +#AC_MSG_RESULT(okay) # Now find the UIDs and GIDs @@ -314,47 +314,49 @@ # figure out the DEFAULT_HOST_NAME and DEFAULT_URL AC_SUBST(FQDN) AC_SUBST(URL) -changequote(,) -cat > conftest.py < conftest.py < 1: - if parts[0] == 'www': - www = h - elif not fqdn: - fqdn = h -fp = open('conftest.out', 'w') -if not www and fqdn: - fp.write('%s\n%s\n' % (fqdn, fqdn)) -elif www: - dhn = string.join(string.split(www, '.')[1:], '.') - fp.write('%s\n%s\n' % (dhn, www)) -else: - fp.write('please.change.me\nwww.please.change.me\n') -fp.close() -EOF -$PYTHON conftest.py -changequote([, ]) -AC_MSG_CHECKING(for default fully qualified host name) -if test -z "$FQDN" -then - FQDN=`head -1 conftest.out` -fi -AC_MSG_RESULT($FQDN) -AC_MSG_CHECKING(for default URL host component) -if test -z "$URL" -then - URL=`tail -1 conftest.out` -fi -AC_MSG_RESULT($URL) -rm -f conftest.out conftest.py +#from socket import * +#import string +#fqdn = None +#www = None +#host, aliases, ipaddrs = gethostbyaddr(gethostbyname(gethostname())) +#aliases.insert(0, host) +#for h in aliases: +# parts = string.split(h, '.') +# if len(parts) > 1: +# if parts[0] == 'www': +# www = h +# elif not fqdn: +# fqdn = h +#fp = open('conftest.out', 'w') +#if not www and fqdn: +# fp.write('%s\n%s\n' % (fqdn, fqdn)) +#elif www: +# dhn = string.join(string.split(www, '.')[1:], '.') +# fp.write('%s\n%s\n' % (dhn, www)) +#else: +# fp.write('please.change.me\nwww.please.change.me\n') +#fp.close() +#EOF +#$PYTHON conftest.py +#changequote([, ]) +#AC_MSG_CHECKING(for default fully qualified host name) +#if test -z "$FQDN" +#then +# FQDN=`head -1 conftest.out` +#fi +#AC_MSG_RESULT($FQDN) +#AC_MSG_CHECKING(for default URL host component) +#if test -z "$URL" +#then +# URL=`tail -1 conftest.out` +#fi +#AC_MSG_RESULT($URL) +#rm -f conftest.out conftest.py +FQDN='$DOMAINNAME' +URL='$HOSTNAME' # Checks for libraries. AC_CHECK_FUNCS(strerror) @@ -370,6 +372,19 @@ # Checks for library functions. AC_FUNC_VPRINTF + +# Check for spool prefix, to place writable files in a different hierarchy +# to scripts. +AC_SUBST(SPOOL_PREFIX) +AC_ARG_WITH(spool-prefix, dnl +[ --spool-prefix specify destination for writable files]) +if test -z "$with_spool_prefix" +then + SPOOL_PREFIX=$prefix + with_spool_prefix='no' +else + SPOOL_PREFIX=$with_spool_prefix +fi dnl Output everything AC_OUTPUT([misc/paths.py Mailman/Defaults.py Mailman/mm_cfg.py.dist --oOB74oR0WcNeq9Zb Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="mailman.spec" Summary: Mailman mailing list manager Name: mailman Version: 1.0b11 Release: 1 Source: http://www.list.org/mailman.tar.gz Patch0: mailman-1.0b11-uid+spool.patch Buildroot: /tmp/mailman-build/ Copyright: GPL Group: Mail/List Prereq: python %description Mailman mailing list manager %prep %setup %patch0 -p1 -b .uid %build autoconf CFLAGS="$RPM_OPT_FLAGS" LDFLAGS=-s ./configure --prefix=/usr/share/mailman --exec-prefix=/usr/lib/mailman --with-spool-prefix=/var/spool/mailman --with-mail-gid=99 make %install rm -rf $RPM_BUILD_ROOT export RPM_BUILD_ROOT mkdir -p $RPM_BUILD_ROOT/etc/mailman make exec_prefix=$RPM_BUILD_ROOT/usr/lib/mailman prefix=$RPM_BUILD_ROOT/usr/share/mailman SPOOL_PREFIX=$RPM_BUILD_ROOT/var/spool/mailman install mv $RPM_BUILD_ROOT/usr/share/mailman/Mailman/mm_cfg.py $RPM_BUILD_ROOT/etc/mailman ln -s /etc/mailman/mm_cfg.py $RPM_BUILD_ROOT/usr/share/mailman/Mailman/mm_cfg.py cp $RPM_BUILD_ROOT/etc/mailman/mm_cfg.py $RPM_BUILD_ROOT/etc/mailman/mm_cfg.py-base %clean rm -rf $RPM_BUILD_ROOT %post /usr/bin/python -c 'import compileall; compileall.compile_dir("/usr/share/mailman")' >/dev/null 2>&1 /usr/bin/python -c 'import compileall; compileall.compile_dir("/usr/lib/mailman/mail")' >/dev/null 2>&1 %files %defattr(-, root, root, 755) /etc/mailman/mm_cfg.py /etc/mailman/mm_cfg.py-base /usr/share/mailman/Mailman /usr/share/mailman/bin /usr/share/mailman/cron /usr/share/mailman/filters /usr/share/mailman/scripts /usr/share/mailman/templates %dir /usr/lib/mailman/cgi-bin %dir /usr/lib/mailman/mail #/usr/lib/mailman/mail/paths.py %defattr(2755, root, mailman, 755) /usr/lib/mailman/cgi-bin/* /usr/lib/mailman/mail/wrapper %attr(2755, nobody, mailman) %dir /var/spool/mailman/archives %attr(2751, nobody, mailman) %dir /var/spool/mailman/archives/private %attr(2755, nobody, mailman) %dir /var/spool/mailman/archives/public %attr(2755, nobody, mailman) %dir /var/spool/mailman/data %attr(2755, nobody, mailman) %dir /var/spool/mailman/lists %attr(2755, nobody, mailman) %dir /var/spool/mailman/logs %attr(2755, nobody, mailman) %dir /var/spool/mailman/locks --oOB74oR0WcNeq9Zb-- From Harald.Meland@usit.uio.no Tue May 4 00:06:28 1999 From: Harald.Meland@usit.uio.no (Harald Meland) Date: 04 May 1999 01:06:28 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Stand-alone Mailman In-Reply-To: Christopher Petrilli's message of "Mon, 15 Mar 1999 12:46:01 -0500" References: <19990315124601.C13106@amber.org> Message-ID: [Christopher Petrilli] > Gang, > > So I've been tossing this idea over in my head... what do you think of > using a derivitive of CGIHTTPServer.py to drive Mailman so that one > could have an "out of hte box" solution... Well, it wouldn't *really* be "out of the box" anyway, as it wouldn't have any built-in MTA. > now not everyone WANTS this, but in the Zope world, we've found that > for evaluation, the lower the entry-point requirement the better. Something like this would of course have to be optional -- but yes, I think it would be kinda cool. But, as you should be able to deduce from the lag on this response, you shouldn't be holding your breath :) -- Harald From Harald.Meland@usit.uio.no Tue May 4 00:55:27 1999 From: Harald.Meland@usit.uio.no (Harald Meland) Date: 04 May 1999 01:55:27 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] fork() problem and popen2.py test In-Reply-To: Christian Tismer's message of "Tue, 09 Mar 1999 23:44:42 +0100" References: <36E5A45A.C4B81609@appliedbiometrics.com> Message-ID: [Christian Tismer] > The reason turned out to be dependent wether Python 1.5 (the early > version, of course) was made with threads or not. > The threaded version had a bad effect on sys.stdin after an > os.fork(). sys.stdin was a "bad file number" in the child process. > Maybe these are known things, but there are some issues: [...] > To the Mailmen: > It was quite hard to track this error down through the > mailman scripts. Finally, I ended up if I made the deliver > fork temporarily into a do-nothing. > The "deliver" script does a number of forks. I does no proper > checking if the forks work (under Linux, btw., fork never returns > ENOMEM, so the check isn't safe yet). I don't understand -- "forker(tries)" in the "deliver" script tries fork()ing, catches any exceptions raised, and re-raises them if a) the error causing the exception weren't EAGAIN or b) this were failed fork() number "tries"+1. Catching the exception is about as far as you can go to "check if the forks work", IMHO -- when fork() stops working, there usually aren't very many clever things worth doing (short of giving up), are there? > Deliverer.py also trusts the os.popen very much. Well, os.popen() should bail out by raising os.error whenever it's behaving "untrustworthy", shouldn't it? > Anyway, sys.stdin is read without error checking in the deliver > script. I think, some more checks are necessary to guarantee that > failing deliveries get noticed. I don't think I have understood enough of the problem to fix this properly, so any suggestions on exactly _what_ those extra checks should check for would be nice :) -- Harald From Harald.Meland@usit.uio.no Tue May 4 01:23:34 1999 From: Harald.Meland@usit.uio.no (Harald Meland) Date: 04 May 1999 02:23:34 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] mailman and AFS? In-Reply-To: Christopher Lindsey's message of "Wed, 31 Mar 1999 15:36:33 -0600 (CST)" References: <199903312136.PAA02853@ferret.ncsa.uiuc.edu> Message-ID: [Christopher Lindsey] > Now for the tricky part. AFS doesn't use standard UNIX permissions, > but instead depends on ACLs (ours uses Kerberos V for authentication). > To be able to write into the AFS space, any program or shell must > have a valid AFS token. > > I can do this by creating a "keytab" file; basically, that randomizes > the password but lets me use it in shell scripts, etc. I just need > to kinit against this file, do my operations, then do a kdestroy. > > Now for my questions: > > o where should I put these calls? I'm guessing that they should be > in wrapper, but do I also need to put it into every binary > in $prefix/cgi-bin? It appears that way... Both the wrapper and all the cgi-bin/* binaries use run_script() from src/common.c for exec()ing the python script that does the job. Off the top of my head, I can't think of anything that needs write access before run_script() is called. > o am I going to run into any locking issues with multiple email and > Web servers, or does mailman handle this? If Mailmans mailingliste locking scheme works on AFS, I don't think there should be any problems. > If so, how? See the MailList.Lock() and .Unlock() methods -- they currently use posixfile.lock(). > AFS (like NFS) often has problems with flock() or fcntl() > locking (so dot-locking is the preferred method). Changing Lock() and Unlock() should be pretty straightforward. > o does mailman actually do any permissions checking on files or > directories? These checks would fail in AFS Grepping the sources for ST_MODE told me of at least one place -- OutGoingQueue.isDeferred() works by checking the setuid bit of the queue file. If I remember my AFS correctly, there is no SUID bit -- so you'd need to change .enqueueMessage, .isDeferred and .deferMessage() to use some other scheme. > Any pointers and/or answers would be appreciated. Good luck, and let us know how things work out! -- Harald From Harald.Meland@usit.uio.no Tue May 4 02:12:45 1999 From: Harald.Meland@usit.uio.no (Harald Meland) Date: 04 May 1999 03:12:45 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Envelope sender and list-admin address In-Reply-To: Brian Ryner's message of "Mon, 05 Apr 1999 12:14:17 -0500" References: <3708EF69.991A02A@uiuc.edu> Message-ID: [Brian Ryner] > Hi- > > I reported a bug on this but I thought I'd also post here, becuause I > might try to correct this myself (and any advice would be appreciated). > > Basically, when a message is sent to the admin address (i.e. > mailman-developers-admin@python.org), the envelope sender is left > untouched when the message is resent. I don't think this is a good > idea. I agree -- we certainly don't want Mailman causing people to slacken their relaying restrictions. Unless anyone objects, I'll change Deliverer.DeliverToOwner so that it _always_ uses MailList.GetAdminEmail() as the envelope sender. -- Harald From Harald.Meland@usit.uio.no Tue May 4 02:23:55 1999 From: Harald.Meland@usit.uio.no (Harald Meland) Date: 04 May 1999 03:23:55 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Mailman on NT In-Reply-To: Gianni Sandrucci's message of "Thu, 22 Apr 1999 15:18:19 +0200" References: <371F219B.68A236AA@agora.it> Message-ID: [Gianni Sandrucci] > - made some minor changes in Mailmal files configure and src/Makefile.in > > - after some fighting with permissions (I was forced to comment tests on > these matters in configuration script and C source code) succeded to > ./configure --with-cgi-ext=.exe > make install (no errors reported) [...] > - called: http://localhost/mailman/cgi-bin/admin.exe > > Got an error (reported below). It seems Python is not able to locate > Mailman modules in /home/mailman/Mailman. I suspect that the reason python isn't finding any modules, is because the C wrappers do some funky stuff with the environment variable PYTHONPATH before python is exec()ed. I have no NT experience whatsoever, so you'll need to get someone else to confirm whether messing with that environment variable is likely to affect Win-Python at all. If it is, have a look in src/common.c, and convince yourself that the magic involving PREFIX, SCRIPTDIR, MODULEDIR, PYTHON and run_script() works as it should. Good luck, -- Harald From dan@feld.cvut.cz Tue May 4 14:52:37 1999 From: dan@feld.cvut.cz (Dan Ohnesorg) Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 15:52:37 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [Mailman-Developers] One sugestion to moderating Message-ID: I have chanded my ..admindb.. page, so that the submit button and radio buttons are inserted after the held message. It is match better, becouse you will first read the message and then make decision what now. I will sugest it as default for next releaeses. The patch is so simply, that I dont send it. It is better to make change manually. cheers dan ________________________________________ DDDDDD DD DD Dan Ohnesorg, supervisor on POWER DD OOOO Dan@feld.cvut.cz DD OODDOO Dep. of Power Engineering DDDDDD OO CTU FEL Prague, Bohemia OO OO work: +420 2 24352785;+420 2 24972109 OOOO home: +420 311 679679;+420 311 679311 ________________________________________ Pesimista vidi v ementalskem syru jen ty diry. From julian7@kva.hu Tue May 4 21:48:20 1999 From: julian7@kva.hu (Balazs Nagy) Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 22:48:20 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [Mailman-Developers] nomail issue ($.02 worth) Message-ID: Hiyas, I am sorry that I cannot do anything for Mailman right now because of my new job. BTW I read these lists and I get the CVS tree regulary. I think it would be nice if the users would be notified about their subscription status (parameters) with the monthly password notification. Just my two cents by now. -- Regards: Kevin (Balazs) From bwarsaw@python.org Tue May 4 23:32:52 1999 From: bwarsaw@python.org (bwarsaw@python.org) Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 18:32:52 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Mailman-Developers] [ANNOUNCE] Mailman 1.0rc1 Message-ID: <14127.30100.803519.853792@anthem.cnri.reston.va.us> Hi folks, Mailman 1.0 release candidate 1 (1.0rc1) has just been uploaded to www.list.org. Barring any major screwups by me, this will be the final 1.0 release. The next step is to create the GNU web pages. I just want to personally thank everyone who's helped with ideas, contributions, suggestions, and support in getting us to where we are. Here are a few things to note about this release: - We have a logo contest winner! By a narrow margin, Dragon's logo has won. My thanks to the other 3 logo creators; in different ways I liked them all, and they are all much better than /I/ could ever have done! Mailman will now display Dragon's small logo on (most) generated pages; I may have missed a few, but those will all be fixed when we revamp the page designs after 1.0. You need to read the instructions in the INSTALL file for putting mailman.gif in a place that your Web server can find them, and for setting up the img src URL. Comments on how to improve this manual installation step would be appreciated. - There is a new cron/mailpasswd script which groups users by virtual domains if mm_cfg.VIRTUAL_HOST_OVERVIEW is true (the default). While I've tested this feature, I would /really/ appreciate some more detailed testing by you folks who run multiple virtual domains (hi Greg S. :-). Please, let's not wait until June 1 to find out something is broken, but also be careful not to spam too many of your users! - If anybody feels like they are being left out of the ACKNOWLEDGEMENTS file, or have any other updates for this file, please send them directly to me. I haven't kept up with this as well as I should have, so don't be shy. :-) That's all I can think of. Grab the tarball from http://www.list.org/mailman.tar.gz Enjoy, -Barry P.S. I'll probably somewhat unresponsive to the mailing lists for a while. I need to concentrate on getting the next JPython release out. From bryner@uiuc.edu Wed May 5 03:46:08 1999 From: bryner@uiuc.edu (Brian Ryner) Date: Tue, 04 May 1999 21:46:08 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Suggestion: script to fix permissions Message-ID: <372FB0F0.3DBCCDEB@uiuc.edu> Would it be difficult to implement a script that would make sure the ownership and permissions are right on all of the mailman files? I inadvertently removed all of the setgid attributes on the directories and had to redo them by hand... ("make install" wouldn't set the mode because the directory already existed) -Brian Ryner bryner@uiuc.edu From gumi@IPN.de Wed May 5 12:56:00 1999 From: gumi@IPN.de (Gunter Mintzel) Date: Wed, 05 May 1999 13:56:00 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Translation of admin interface Message-ID: <7GIHnHR0pbB@system7.ipn.de> Berlin, May 5, 1999 Hello developers, as a German ISP we provide Mailman as our basic mailing-list software. We have translated most of the documents in the /template directory into German language to make them usable for our customers. As far as we discovered there are no templates for the admin interface and the Pipermail package. We like both Python and the Mailman software and would like to translate these parts also as soon as the v1.0 release is out. Of course we don´t like to reinvent the wheel if somebody else did this already. Is there any solution around that I just did not see? How can we contribute? Gunter -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Gunter Mintzel - IPN-Berlin - http://www.ipn.de - Tel. +49-30-5360 2222 From Benjamin B. Thomas" bwarsaw@python.org writes: > ...this will be the final 1.0 release. > The next step is to create the GNU web pages. > Mailman will now display Dragon's small logo on (most) generated > pages; > You need to read the instructions in the INSTALL file for putting > mailman.gif in a place... ^^^ Hi there! Since Mailman is a GNU project, won't there be problems if it makes heavy use of GIFs? I personally do not care if GIFs are used or not, but I suspect that Stallman will be quite displeased if Mailman itself or the Mailman pages at the GNU site use GIFs. I just wanted to point this out before too much work was invested. From http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/gif.html > There are no GIFs on the GNU web site because of the patents (Unisys and IBM) > covering the LZW compression algorithm which is used in making GIF files. > These patents make it impossible to have free software to generate proper > GIFs. They also apply to the compress program, which is why GNU does not use > it or its format. Cheers, benjy 1975 Cahaba Valley Road (205) 988-4268 Indian Springs, AL 35124 benjy@alum.mit.edu From gorgo@caesar.elte.hu Wed May 5 22:33:27 1999 From: gorgo@caesar.elte.hu (Gergely Madarasz) Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 23:33:27 +0200 (METDST) Subject: [Mailman-Developers] small fix for admindb Message-ID: Hello, There were already some comments about the problems with <> characters on the admindb pages... here is a small fix, I hope it doesnt break anything else :) but I don't think it could :) --- Mailman/Cgi/admindb.py~ Sat Apr 3 18:55:45 1999 +++ Mailman/Cgi/admindb.py Wed May 5 23:04:46 1999 @@ -247,7 +247,7 @@ FontSize("+1", Bold('Contents:')) ]) form.AddItem(t) - form.AddItem(Preformatted(val[2][1])) + form.AddItem(Preformatted(Utils.QuoteHyperChars(val[2][1]))) form.AddItem('

') -- Madarasz Gergely gorgo@caesar.elte.hu gorgo@linux.rulez.org It's practically impossible to look at a penguin and feel angry. Egy pingvinre gyakorlatilag lehetetlen haragosan nezni. HuLUG: http://mlf.linux.rulez.org/ From bwarsaw@cnri.reston.va.us (Barry A. Warsaw) Wed May 5 22:52:04 1999 From: bwarsaw@cnri.reston.va.us (Barry A. Warsaw) (Barry A. Warsaw) Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 17:52:04 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Mailman-Developers] GNU GIF problems - was [ANNOUNCE] Mailman 1.0rc1 References: <199905052133.QAA30963@mail.indiansprings.org> Message-ID: <14128.48516.246899.774202@anthem.cnri.reston.va.us> >>>>> "BBT" == Benjamin B Thomas writes: BBT> Hi there! Since Mailman is a GNU project, won't there be BBT> problems if it makes heavy use of GIFs? I personally do not BBT> care if GIFs are used or not, but I suspect that Stallman BBT> will be quite displeased if Mailman itself or the Mailman BBT> pages at the GNU site use GIFs. Good point. It's not that hard to convert them to PNGs (or JPEGs? GNU.org seems strangely silent on this) for the 1.0 release. If Dragon doesn't have time to do it, I'll do it before the final release. Thanks, -Barry From Benjamin B. Thomas" References: <199905052133.QAA30963@mail.indiansprings.org> <14128.48516.246899.774202@anthem.cnri.reston.va.us> Message-ID: <199905060005.TAA02215@mail.indiansprings.org> Quoting "Barry A. Warsaw" : > Good point. It's not that hard to convert them to PNGs (or JPEGs? When saving as JPEG, be sure to play around with the quality setting a little bit. Unfortunately, JPEGs tend to smear sharp borders a little bit since the compression is lossy. We might get lucky and have this actually enhance the "rubber stamp" look of Dragon's logo (It would have been a definite Bad Thing(tm) for any of the other possible logos due to their sharp lines). I just tried saving the logos as JPEG with XV at 100% quality with 0% smoothing, and the results are fairly acceptable. dragonsmall.gif grew by only 200 bytes, while dragonlogo.gif grew by about 5K. Take a look at http://mail.indiansprings.org/people/benjy/dragonsmall.jpg and http://mail.indiansprings.org/people/benjy/dragonlogo.jpg Use the browser to flip back and forth between the original files to compare (they are also at the same location). Use them if you like, or try using GIMP or another tool to see if you can get any improvement. PNG will better preserve the image quality, but there are enough 3.x and early 4.0 browsers in use that PNG might not be a good choice from an end user point of view. Of course, you can always include both versions and let the individual webmaster decide if he wants to support non-PNG browsers. The patent problem is really too bad, since GIF was the best all around format for these particluar images. Cheers, benjy 1975 Cahaba Valley Road (205) 988-4268 Indian Springs, AL 35124 benjy@alum.mit.edu From dragondm@integral.org Thu May 6 07:26:16 1999 From: dragondm@integral.org (The Dragon De Monsyne) Date: Thu, 6 May 1999 01:26:16 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [Mailman-Developers] GNU GIF problems - was [ANNOUNCE] Mailman 1.0rc1 In-Reply-To: <199905060005.TAA02215@mail.indiansprings.org> Message-ID: On Wed, 5 May 1999, Benjamin B. Thomas wrote: > Quoting "Barry A. Warsaw" : > > > Good point. It's not that hard to convert them to PNGs (or JPEGs? > Hmmm... Well, for one thing PNG's will be easy to get, I actually origionally created the images as PNG's then converted them to GIF's. (the images were created with the debian-packaged version of the GIMP, which dosen't support GIF's for exactly this reason.) I'll hunt arond for the origionals > When saving as JPEG, be sure to play around with the quality setting a little > bit. Unfortunately, JPEGs tend to smear sharp borders a little bit since the > compression is lossy. We might get lucky and have this actually enhance the > "rubber stamp" look of Dragon's logo (It would have been a definite Bad > Thing(tm) for any of the other possible logos due to their sharp lines). > :> > I just tried saving the logos as JPEG with XV at 100% quality with 0% smoothing, > and the results are fairly acceptable. dragonsmall.gif grew by only 200 bytes, > while dragonlogo.gif grew by about 5K. Take a look at > > http://mail.indiansprings.org/people/benjy/dragonsmall.jpg and > http://mail.indiansprings.org/people/benjy/dragonlogo.jpg > Those look pretty good. -The Dragon De Monsyne From matteo@ibm.net Sat May 8 01:35:39 1999 From: matteo@ibm.net (matteo) Date: Fri, 07 May 1999 20:35:39 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] suggestions regarding announce only configurations Message-ID: <373386DB.B46A2D38@ibm.net> thanks for the great program! i'm using mailman both for general lists and announce-only. i can approximate a good announce only configuration by editing html to hide things like the list submit address, etc, after turning them off but it would be wonderful to be able to semi-automatically create a list that has this already done, by having the html turn off automatically when you deselect an option. another possibility would be to have multiple default configurations, so that once you configured one, you could duplicate it. ( i guess there are probably some files that you could copy over to do that but im not sure which) the piece that was the most problematic was the subscriber list- we dont want people to see a list of subscribers (or the possibility of a list, even if they cant use it) it on an announce list, but if we hide the html, we need to create an html stub that contains the form post code. if you included the subscriber-list control to the admin page, when you hide the html in the listinfo page, it still is available to the listadmin. (perhaps the cgi could ask for the posting fields or use existing admin auth info if called directly?) thanks again matteo From julian7@kva.hu Sat May 8 09:23:40 1999 From: julian7@kva.hu (Balazs Nagy) Date: Sat, 8 May 1999 10:23:40 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [Mailman-Developers] GNU GIF problems - was [ANNOUNCE] Mailman 1.0rc1 In-Reply-To: <199905052133.QAA30963@mail.indiansprings.org> Message-ID: On Wed, 5 May 1999, Benjamin B. Thomas wrote: > >From http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/gif.html > > > There are no GIFs on the GNU web site because of the patents (Unisys and > > IBM) covering the LZW compression algorithm which is used in making GIF > > files. These patents make it impossible to have free software to > > generate proper GIFs. They also apply to the compress program, which is > > why GNU does not use it or its format. Well. Check out libungif or gd. These packages use no or non-LZW (free) compression and they work fine. -- Regards: Kevin (Balazs) From klm@digicool.com Sat May 8 15:51:48 1999 From: klm@digicool.com (Ken Manheimer) Date: Sat, 8 May 1999 10:51:48 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] suggestions regarding announce only conf igurations Message-ID: <613145F79272D211914B0020AFF640190BEEBF@gandalf.digicool.com> On friday, Matteo wrote: > i'm using mailman both for general lists and announce-only. i can > approximate a good announce only > configuration by editing html to hide things like the list submit > address, etc, after turning them off > but it would be wonderful to be able to semi-automatically create a list > that has this already done, by having the html turn off automatically > when you deselect an option. another possibility would be to have Mailman tends to emphasize configuration options for these kinds of things. For instance... > the piece that was the most problematic was the subscriber list- we dont > want people to see a list of subscribers (or the possibility of a list, > even if they cant use it) it on an announce list, but if we hide the > html, we need to create an html stub that contains the form post code. Why not set the "Who can view subscription list" privacy option to "List admin only"? (It's on http:///mailman/admin//privacy .) Ken Manheimer klm@digicool.com From claw@varesearch.com Thu May 13 04:47:33 1999 From: claw@varesearch.com (J C Lawrence) Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 20:47:33 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Performance under load (bursty message flow) Message-ID: In running a number of lists at VA under mailman, I've noticed an apparent performance problem: multiple simultaneous deliveries to the same list performs badly. Locking? One particular list tends to receive large numbers of messages over short time periods (eg 50 messages with less than a minute) followed by long periods of inactivity (eg an hour). The result is that multiple (typically a dozen) simultaneous instances of mailman are invoked for that list. Watching a mail bomb come thru the apparent behavious is curious: The first batch gets thru fine (ie # of simultansous deliveries as set in the MTS cfg), each individual message seperated from the others by fractions of a second. But the second run (which all start within milliseconds of each other) all seem to block on .lock for the same time period, and to then spin, all unlocking and relocking in synch and getting nowhere. Certainly the wait time on the lock is rather long (I haven't checked the source). Perhaps a shorter default lock time plus a random factor? Eeek. System is a 400MHz PII, 128Meg RAM, Python 1.5, RH 5.2, all updates, latest CVS version of MailMan. -- J C Lawrence Home: claw@kanga.nu ---------(*) Linux/IA64 - Work: claw@varesearch.com ... Beware of cromagnons wearing chewing gum and palm pilots ... From ricardo@miss-janet.com Thu May 13 13:59:30 1999 From: ricardo@miss-janet.com (Ricardo Kustner) Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 14:59:30 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [Mailman-Developers] admindb features Message-ID: Hi, Here are some Moderate features I think would be really usefull in mailman: 1. an option to resend / forward a message held for approval to a certain e-mail address. why? sometimes you don't want to accept a post on the mailinglist, but you want to be able to show it to others (fellow moderators for example) 2. filter html... s/****COMMENT FROM MODERATOR******* > >Read the INSTALL file in the source tree! > >****END OF MODERATOR COMMENT***** Hi, how can i install mailman on my redhat linux system? Thanks. ======== i'm going to try to make these changes in my running mailman myself, but i dont have much experience with python yet so i probably won't Do It The Right Way (tm) ... but hopefully some of the features will appear in a future release of mailman. Ricardo. -- From Harald.Meland@usit.uio.no Fri May 14 10:49:19 1999 From: Harald.Meland@usit.uio.no (Harald Meland) Date: 14 May 1999 11:49:19 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] small fix for admindb In-Reply-To: Gergely Madarasz's message of "Wed, 5 May 1999 23:33:27 +0200 (METDST)" References: Message-ID: [Gergely Madarasz] > Hello, > > There were already some comments about the problems with <> characters on > the admindb pages... here is a small fix, I hope it doesnt break anything > else :) but I don't think it could :) > > --- Mailman/Cgi/admindb.py~ Sat Apr 3 18:55:45 1999 > +++ Mailman/Cgi/admindb.py Wed May 5 23:04:46 1999 > @@ -247,7 +247,7 @@ > FontSize("+1", Bold('Contents:')) > ]) > form.AddItem(t) > - form.AddItem(Preformatted(val[2][1])) > + form.AddItem(Preformatted(Utils.QuoteHyperChars(val[2][1]))) > form.AddItem('

') Thanks for the patch -- however, I suspect this should be fixed at a lower level. Is Mailman (or anyone) ever likely to want unquoted special-HTML-chars in a "Preformatted" item? If not (which is what I suspect to be the case), then overriding htmlformat.Preformatted.Format() would be better. Opinions, anyone? -- Harald From aahz@searchbutton.com Fri May 14 21:52:12 1999 From: aahz@searchbutton.com (Aahz) Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 13:52:12 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] In-Reply-To vs. References Message-ID: <219B76713101D31183B000902762824E2B1C@temp-search.searchbutton.com> We've been having a discussion on comp.lang.py about Mailman's handling of headers in the context of (not) threading messages, and Barry Warsaw suggested that I continue the discussion here. Summary: I propose that in the mail-to-news gateway (but not the other direction), if the In-Reply-To: header exists but the References: header does not, copy In-Reply-To to References. Background: In a large fraction of e-mail programs, the In-Reply-To header contains the Message-ID of the message being responded to. According to RFC822, both In-Reply-To and References are valid for this purpose. However, newsreaders only recognize the References header (RFC1036). The absence of a References header frequently breaks the ability of newsreaders to thread messages together. (Most newsreaders can still do Subject-based grouping, but that's not the same thing as threading.) Much of the discussion on comp.lang.py has revolved around the fact that it's a Bad Idea to muck around with headers (a philosophy I generally agree with). However, it seems to me that in this case there is a clear translation issue between the domain of e-mail messages and the domain of newsgroup postings (as specified by the appropriate RFCs) and that the potential negative consequences are minimal. (I foresee some possible oddities if someone replies to a private e-mail message and cc's the mailing list -- but that problem already exists if an e-mail program uses References instead of In-Reply-To.) From Harald.Meland@usit.uio.no Fri May 14 22:23:27 1999 From: Harald.Meland@usit.uio.no (Harald Meland) Date: 14 May 1999 23:23:27 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] In-Reply-To vs. References In-Reply-To: Aahz's message of "Fri, 14 May 1999 13:52:12 -0700" References: <219B76713101D31183B000902762824E2B1C@temp-search.searchbutton.com> Message-ID: [Aahz] > We've been having a discussion on comp.lang.py about Mailman's handling of > headers in the context of (not) threading messages, and Barry Warsaw > suggested that I continue the discussion here. > > Summary: > I propose that in the mail-to-news gateway (but not the other direction), if > the In-Reply-To: header exists but the References: header does not, copy > In-Reply-To to References. (Not having read c.l.p,) I don't understand how such a proposition could generate much of a discussion :) If an email contains an In-Reply-To: header, I'd guess it is due to it being a reply. If this email is gated to news, the fact that it is a reply, and preferably what message it is a reply to, should be indicated somehow. If such an indication can only be given by having the news-gate muck around with the headers of the message, _and_ such mucking won't destroy any of the _original_ headers of the message, I don't really see the harm. Of course, in an ideal world, every mail client would use the (IMHO) superior References: mechanism, and this wouldn't be an issue. However, as the world is slightly less than ideal, Mailman should strive to make the _appearance_ of the world as ideal as possible. Having threading broken when gating to news does not do much for composing an ideal appearance :) However, as I can see that this might be a slightly religious matter :), I'll wait for other opinions (and read the discussion in c.l.p) before trying to actually implement it (as this is something I _don't_ think should be made optional). -- Harald From Harald.Meland@usit.uio.no Fri May 14 23:18:23 1999 From: Harald.Meland@usit.uio.no (Harald Meland) Date: 15 May 1999 00:18:23 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] In-Reply-To vs. References In-Reply-To: Harald Meland's message of "14 May 1999 23:23:27 +0200" References: <219B76713101D31183B000902762824E2B1C@temp-search.searchbutton.com> Message-ID: [Harald Meland] > (Not having read c.l.p,) I don't understand how such a proposition > could generate much of a discussion :) Having read the discussion in c.l.p, I now understand :) > If an email contains an In-Reply-To: header, I'd guess it is due to it > being a reply. If this email is gated to news, the fact that it is a > reply, and preferably what message it is a reply to, should be > indicated somehow. > > If such an indication can only be given by having the news-gate muck > around with the headers of the message, _and_ such mucking won't > destroy any of the _original_ headers of the message, I don't really > see the harm. ... and before anyone gets religious on me here, I'll rush to explain that I _do_ see the harm of inserting "faulty" References: headers -- any In-Reply-To: candidate should at the very least be in the form of a valid message ID. I think there was a slightly similar discussion on the (ding) Gnus mailing list a while back -- it was spurred by the fact that Gnus' threading sometimes broke down, as some mailers put several message-id-look-a-like-tags (e.g. mail addresses in angle brackets) in their In-Reply-To: header. Thus, Mailman should be very conservative when moving MessageID-candidates from In-Reply-To: to References: -- it might even be a good idea to query the newsserver whether it has the candidate replied-to article (even though that probably won't work with all newsserver configurations). If the appropriate level of conservatism can be reached without making the involved code *too* complex, I still believe this particular case of header mucking could be a Good Thing. -- Harald From aahz@searchbutton.com Fri May 14 23:26:45 1999 From: aahz@searchbutton.com (Aahz) Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 15:26:45 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] In-Reply-To vs. References Message-ID: <219B76713101D31183B000902762824E2B1F@temp-search.searchbutton.com> Harald Meland wrote: > > ... and before anyone gets religious on me here, I'll rush to explain > that I _do_ see the harm of inserting "faulty" References: headers -- > any In-Reply-To: candidate should at the very least be in the form of > a valid message ID. > > I think there was a slightly similar discussion on the (ding) Gnus > mailing list a while back -- it was spurred by the fact that Gnus' > threading sometimes broke down, as some mailers put several > message-id-look-a-like-tags (e.g. mail addresses in angle brackets) in > their In-Reply-To: header. Threading is already broken on the newsreader side if References: doesn't exist. I'd say that as long as it has the correct form, pass it on. (I'm also making the possible faulty assumption that the Gnus problem manifested in the context of reading a mailing list rather than a newsgroup.) From jeffh@streek.com Sun May 16 19:13:34 1999 From: jeffh@streek.com (Jeff Hahn) Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 13:13:34 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Bug in archive dating in 1.0RC1 Message-ID: <00a701be9fc7$cf8ec0a0$1e0a5ad1@SINGSING.STREEK.COM> background: list has the "Set date in archive to when the mail is claimed to have been sent, or to the time we resend it?" set to WHEN RESENT email message with the following headers creates an archive record in September of 2022! NOTE: look at the second Received: line. names and IP addresses have been "sanitized" to protect STUPID IDIOT who is running a mail server with the date set at Fri, 2 Sep 2022 Mailman still should have ignored the date and used the date when MAILMAN resent it (or am I wrong about that option's intent?) I apologize for not jumping in to fix this, but I'm really pressed for the next couple of days and I don't know how tight a schedule we are on for the release candidates... -Jeff From Harald.Meland@usit.uio.no Tue May 18 15:42:46 1999 From: Harald.Meland@usit.uio.no (Harald Meland) Date: 18 May 1999 16:42:46 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Bug in archive dating in 1.0RC1 In-Reply-To: Jeff Hahn's message of "Sun, 16 May 1999 13:13:34 -0500" References: <00a701be9fc7$cf8ec0a0$1e0a5ad1@SINGSING.STREEK.COM> Message-ID: [Jeff Hahn] > background: > > list has the "Set date in archive to when the mail is claimed to have been > sent, or to the time we resend it?" set to WHEN RESENT > > email message with the following headers creates an archive record in > September of 2022! NOTE: look at the second Received: line. I'm unable to reproduce this. If anyone else see similar effects, or know how to make this reproducible (or maybe even can produce a patch to fix this :), please speak up. It should be noted, though, that the "clobber_date" configuration option only seems to be supported by the __archive_to_mbox() method, and not by the ArchiveMail() method that Post() invokes. There are comments in there indicating that __archive_to_mbox is a previous but now renamed ArchiveMail() -- but I don't know whether it's intended for the current ArchiveMail() method not to care about clobber_date. -- Harald From atus@ebizlab.hit.bme.hu Thu May 20 10:41:17 1999 From: atus@ebizlab.hit.bme.hu (Bognar, Attila) Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 11:41:17 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [Mailman-Developers] features suggestion: languages Message-ID: Hi all, I'm quite new to this list. I faced a "problem": I run a maillists for Hungarian people and the problem is that some of them don't speak english very much. So I have/should change the English text to Hungarian. So what I suggest: when creating a new list, there could be a question, which asks what language the list should be. The datas of languages could be taken for example from ~mailman/templates/hungarian/ What do you think? Attila From Harald.Meland@usit.uio.no Thu May 20 14:01:40 1999 From: Harald.Meland@usit.uio.no (Harald Meland) Date: 20 May 1999 15:01:40 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] features suggestion: languages In-Reply-To: "Bognar, Attila"'s message of "Thu, 20 May 1999 11:41:17 +0200 (CEST)" References: Message-ID: [Bognar, Attila] > Hi all, > > I'm quite new to this list. > I faced a "problem": I run a maillists for Hungarian people and the > problem is that some of them don't speak english very much. So I > have/should change the English text to Hungarian. > > So what I suggest: > when creating a new list, there could be a question, which asks what > language the list should be. > The datas of languages could be taken for example from > ~mailman/templates/hungarian/ > > What do you think? The issue has been brought up a number of times before -- and at the moment, there's not much more to say about it than "Support for internationalization is one of the things high on our TODO list for post-1.0". -- Harald From boldi@rulez.org Fri May 21 01:55:51 1999 From: boldi@rulez.org (Bencsath Boldizsar) Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 02:55:51 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] getheader-setheader Message-ID: <005b01bea324$b5468380$0301620a@elemer.datacontact.hu> i have submitted this as bug, but i get some expertise in mailman python routines ;)) so : The problem, if i use special characters in the subject, some of the words appear two times in the subject ... To: , Subject: =?iso-8859-2?B?Rnc6IGZ1cmEg6WdpIG1hc2luYSBu9nZlbGkgbWFnYXNz4WfhdCA=?= =?iso-8859-2?B?bmFwaG9zc3phdCBr7Xbpbg==?= Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 01:04:51 +0200 This is the original header. Note, that the Subject: header has TWO lines.. Getheader is parsing well. But setheader is going to do: else: for i in range(len(self.headers)): if (string.lower(self.headers[i][:len(name)+1]) == string.lower(name) + ':'): self.headers[i] = '%s: %s' % (name, value) (1.0rc1-message.py [ line 173 of 307 (56%), character 5740 of 9761 (58%) ]) Because of this, setheader () takes out ONE line, not BOTH. I am not using python, so dont know even the basic commands, would anyone help me to correct this bug and sending me before the next release comes out? ;) I think it should be no problem with my instructions boldi -answer in private(i'm not a developer ) boldi@budapest.hu From ricardo@miss-janet.com Fri May 21 07:21:23 1999 From: ricardo@miss-janet.com (Ricardo - Miss Janet. Fanclub) Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 08:21:23 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [Mailman-Developers] found a bug? "ValueError: bad marshal data" Message-ID: Hi, like i mentioned earlier, when i approve a post with admindb, the webbrowser stalls for several seconds before closing the connection... well i just found out that it generates an error in my apache logs (See below) is this a bug? or does this mean one of the databases is corrupted? if so, how can i fix it? i'm using mailman rc1 on Linux 2.0.36, i upgraded python to 1.5.2 yesterday, but the same problems were before that. ps: don't you all agree mailman needs more publicity? i think it's one of the best mailinglist solutions... but one of the powers behind GNU like software is when many people help to develop it; and i'm sure there are a lot of developers out there who can and want to help... i gotta start learning python soon! :) did rc1 get posted on freshmeat and stuff? Thanks... Ricardo. [Fri May 21 06:34:29 1999] [error] [client 212.206.29.123] File does not exist: /usr/local/www/miss-janet.com/www/images/mailman.gif Traceback (innermost last): File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/Archiver.py", line 209, in ArchiveMail h.processUnixMailbox(f, HyperArch.Article) File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/pipermail.py", line 381, in processUnixMailbox self.add_article(a) # Add the article File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/HyperArch.py", line 846, in add_article parentID=self.database.getOldestArticle(self.archive, File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/HyperDatabase.py", line 285, in getOldestArticle self.__openIndices(archive) File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/HyperDatabase.py", line 228, in __openIndices t=DumbBTree(os.path.join(arcdir, archive+'-'+i)) File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/HyperDatabase.py", line 56, in __init__ self.dict = marshal.load(open(path)) ValueError: bad marshal data Ricardo. -- International Janet Jackson fanclub called MISS JANET. For more information write to: Miss Janet. P.O.Box 10016, 1001 EA Amsterdam, The Netherlands Fax/phone: +31-(0)20-7764493 Email: fanclub@miss-janet.com Or check out our website: http://miss-janet.com From ricardo@miss-janet.com Fri May 21 13:05:31 1999 From: ricardo@miss-janet.com (Ricardo Kustner) Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 14:05:31 +0200 (MET DST) Subject: [Mailman-Developers] stalled connection: archive locks? Message-ID: Hi, well i've traced my problem back to the fact that the lock files in the archive directory are not being removed. they appear as: 1999-May-subject.lock..<#####> where <#####> is a number... does anybody have the same problems? i think this might be what causes the process-overload on our server, when an impatient moderator doesnt wait for the stalled page to completely finnish and approve several posts at once, all of them waiting for lock files to be released...? Ricardo. From jcrey@uma.es Fri May 21 13:57:39 1999 From: jcrey@uma.es (Juan Carlos Rey Anaya) Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 14:57:39 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] features suggestion: languages References: Message-ID: <37455843.64E39D22@uma.es> "Bognar, Attila" wrote: > > Hi all, > > I'm quite new to this list. > I faced a "problem": I run a maillists for Hungarian people and the > problem is that some of them don't speak english very much. So I > have/should change the English text to Hungarian. > > So what I suggest: > when creating a new list, there could be a question, which asks what > language the list should be. > The datas of languages could be taken for example from > ~mailman/templates/hungarian/ > Well, we (Victoriano Giralt and I) have the same trouble and we're thinking on modifying mailman to support different languages. We see the multilingual issue as a three pronged one: - The mail messages sent by the MLM to the users. - The apparence of web pages. - And the commands used to control the MLM via e-mail. At first, we should tack the two fist ones. The last one is not a big issue thanks to the amazing web user interface :) ;) Our approach to the problem would be as follows: - The system should have a default system language, defined at install time, which will be used for everything unbound to any list. - The system will have a set of supported languages, that can be selected as list default language (list creation) or by users for interfacing to system areas not related to a list. - A list can support a subset of languages of server, one of them being the list default language, that will be used for users that don't select a language and and for any list general messages, like the signature appended to list messages. - The user selected language will be used for the web interface and for personal messages, like password reminders. - The templates will be customisable like they are now, but on different languages. - List info webpage could be shown in any language supported by the list. - System logs will be in English. System manager should know what they are doing :) This ends the philosophical part. Now the hard implementation issues :) Directory $prefix/templates would include different directories, each dedicated to a diferent language, from which the selected new list languages, would be copied. So, this structure would be replicated for every list, but only for the list supported languages. templates/es/ spanish de/ german bu/ bulgarian it/ italian, etc The system messages would use a similar directory structure. A new directory, called $prefix/messages, would be created, to hold the supported languages. This directory would hold a module per supported language, named 'language'.py, i.e.: es.py, de.py, bu.py, etc Each file could have entries like: --- BEGIN es.py --- ErrorInvalidPasswd = 'Error: clave incorrecta' ListNotFound = 'la lista no se encuentra: %s' DEFAULT_MSG_FOOTER = """_______________________________________________ lista de distribucion %(real_name)s - %(real_name)s@%(host_name)s %(web_page_url)slistinfo/%(_internal_name)s """ --- END es.py --- And to use it: It should be at the beggining of a program that wants to use it, like: import MsgLang -- or whichever name it should have Msg = MsgLang.MsgLang() -- We are going send messages in the server default language Msg = MsgLang.MsgLang('es') -- We are going to send spanish messages print Msg.msg('ErrorInvalidPasswd') returns 'Error: Invalid Password"' print Msg.msg('ListNotFound') % 'List' should return 'la lista no se encuentra: List' VBLE = {'web_page_url' : 'http://www.uma.es/', 'real_name' : 'Lista', 'host_name' : 'uma.es', '_internal_name' : 'XXXX'} print Msg.msg('DEFAULT_MSG_FOOTER') % VBLE should return '_______________________________________________ lista de distribucion Lista - Lista@uma.es http://www.uma.es/listinfo/XXXX' We have a little problem, one of us is new to Python, but we won't reveal who :) Of course this is open to discussion on this list. -- ___ / F \ [[[]]]] ( O O ) #----------------0000--(_)--0000---------------# | Juan Carlos Rey Anaya (jcrey@uma.es) | | Servicio Central de informática | | Universidad de Málaga - España | #----------------------------------------------# # Solo se que cada vez se menos :-| # #----------------------------------------------# From dan@feld.cvut.cz Fri May 21 14:23:14 1999 From: dan@feld.cvut.cz (Dan Ohnesorg) Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 15:23:14 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [Mailman-Developers] features suggestion: languages In-Reply-To: <37455843.64E39D22@uma.es> Message-ID: On Fri, 21 May 1999, Juan Carlos Rey Anaya wrote: I am also to interested in localization, my domain is Czech language. > We see the multilingual issue as a three pronged one: > - The mail messages sent by the MLM to the users. It is generealy not problem, becouse mailman is transparent for MIME encodings (We have 15 charactes in ISO-8859-2 character set). > - The apparence of web pages. It can be modified by exchanging templates in directories. I have made it and it works fine, the only problem is, that for example labels on buttons are hard genertated from source code. > - And the commands used to control the MLM via e-mail. > Here should by done some work, if I will send czech message, i need modify headers from e-mail. Mailman generates only US-ASCII headers and by templetas I can modify only body of message. Command should not be translated. Only, and it is not localization subject, I am modifiing every version to recognize more command as aliases, like sub, subscribe, add... > This ends the philosophical part. Now the hard implementation issues :) > > Directory $prefix/templates would include different directories, each > dedicated to a diferent language, from which the selected new list > languages, would be copied. So, this structure would be replicated for > every list, but only for the list supported languages. > > templates/es/ spanish > de/ german > bu/ bulgarian > it/ italian, etc Yes, it can be done like this. > > The system messages would use a similar directory structure. A new > directory, called $prefix/messages, would be created, to hold the > supported languages. Yes and the messages should contains not only body, but also headers from mail. > This directory would hold a module per supported language, named > 'language'.py, Please check gettext package, which is also suported by python. It is my preffered way to internationalize aplications. I think, we can include templates directory in 1.0, to help other with translation, f.e. in contib directory, it will not automaticaly install, but it can be manually placed instead of english templates. cheers dan -- ________________________________________ DDDDDD DD DD Dan Ohnesorg, supervisor on POWER DD OOOO Dan@feld.cvut.cz DD OODDOO Dep. of Power Engineering DDDDDD OO CTU FEL Prague, Bohemia OO OO work: +420 2 24352785;+420 2 24972109 OOOO home: +420 311 679679;+420 311 679311 ________________________________________ Pesimista vidi v ementalskem syru jen ty diry. From brunomadv@ciudad.com.ar Fri May 21 14:41:13 1999 From: brunomadv@ciudad.com.ar (Bruno Mattarollo) Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 10:41:13 -0300 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] features suggestion: languages In-Reply-To: <37455843.64E39D22@uma.es> Message-ID: <001401bea38f$97ce40c0$6eba0ac8@kuarajy.infosys.com.ar> Hi! I am offering myself to help translate MailMan to spanish. Juan Carlos: si quieres, puedo ayudar, solo contactame via mail. Personally, I like the idea of having several language options at installation time and choosing one. Cheers, /B Bruno Mattarollo ... proud to be a PSA member > -----Original Message----- > From: mailman-developers-admin@python.org > [mailto:mailman-developers-admin@python.org]On Behalf Of Juan Carlos Rey > Anaya > Sent: Friday, May 21, 1999 9:58 AM > To: mailman-developers@python.org > Subject: Re: [Mailman-Developers] features suggestion: languages > > > "Bognar, Attila" wrote: > > > > Hi all, > > > > I'm quite new to this list. > > I faced a "problem": I run a maillists for Hungarian people and the > > problem is that some of them don't speak english very much. So I > > have/should change the English text to Hungarian. > > > > So what I suggest: > > when creating a new list, there could be a question, which asks what > > language the list should be. > > The datas of languages could be taken for example from > > ~mailman/templates/hungarian/ > > > > Well, we (Victoriano Giralt and I) have the same trouble and we're > thinking on modifying mailman to support different languages. > > We see the multilingual issue as a three pronged one: > - The mail messages sent by the MLM to the users. > - The apparence of web pages. > - And the commands used to control the MLM via e-mail. > > [...SNIP...] > > We have a little problem, one of us is new to Python, but we won't > reveal who :) > > Of course this is open to discussion on this list. > -- > > ___ > / F \ > [[[]]]] > ( O O ) > #----------------0000--(_)--0000---------------# > | Juan Carlos Rey Anaya (jcrey@uma.es) | > | Servicio Central de informática | > | Universidad de Málaga - España | > #----------------------------------------------# > # Solo se que cada vez se menos :-| # > #----------------------------------------------# > > _______________________________________________ > Mailman-Developers maillist - Mailman-Developers@python.org > http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers > From richarde@eskom.co.za Fri May 21 09:42:42 1999 From: richarde@eskom.co.za (Richard Ellerbrock) Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 10:42:42 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Error in Mailman Version: 1.0rc1 Message-ID: I continuously get the following error in my error log. Unfortunately I do not know what leads to the error. admin: [----- Mailman Version: 1.0rc1 -----] admin: [----- Traceback ------] admin: Traceback (innermost last): admin: File "/home/mailman/scripts/driver", line 112, in run_main admin: main() admin: File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/listinfo.py", line 40, in main admin: FormatListinfoOverview() admin: File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/listinfo.py", line 66, in FormatListinf oOverview admin: if port and http_host[-len(port)-1:] == ':'+port: admin: AttributeError: __getslice__ -- Richard Ellerbrock richarde@eskom.co.za From jerrya@fastrans.net Fri May 21 21:39:07 1999 From: jerrya@fastrans.net (Jerry Adlersfluegel) Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 15:39:07 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] another "mailman" product... Message-ID: <3745C46B.E9201DF8@fastrans.net> I was going through some stuff on freshmeat, and I found another program named "mailman." I don't know if this has been discussed here before, but I thought I should point it out. http://www.endymion.com/products/mailman/ -- Jerry A. From ricardo@miss-janet.com Fri May 21 23:41:44 1999 From: ricardo@miss-janet.com (Ricardo Kustner) Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 00:41:44 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [Mailman-Developers] RE: [Mailman-Users] stalled / locks?... corrupted database :( In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 18-May-99 Ricardo Kustner wrote: >> When I approve a post in the admindb interface (mailman rc1), the connection >> "stalls" for several seconds after the new page has been brought up... the >> weird thing is that the full html output has been displayed on the browser, >> but apperantly, the http connection isn't closed immediately after this... >> could this be a lock-file problem? > i reply to my own post... when i approve a post and do a ps -ax on the > server, i can see python hanging around as a "zombie" process during the > stall-time of a the approval submit... i feel really stupid for being the only one to reply to my *own* posts... (i guess nobody is taking me seriously??... :) ) anyway it looks like my archive database has become corrupted since no posts have been added since last sunday... which is quite possible since i had a some trouble with the server last weekend (which is more due to lack of system resources and my own fault sort of... my fastcgi scripts are not that reliable (yet) and sometimes tend to crash the server, especially if mailman/exmin are *very* busy with posting messages at the same time) so my question is: how can i fix the archive database? i guess i have to turn off archiving for now... Ricardo. -- From Harald.Meland@usit.uio.no Sat May 22 12:29:09 1999 From: Harald.Meland@usit.uio.no (Harald Meland) Date: 22 May 1999 13:29:09 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] getheader-setheader In-Reply-To: Bencsath Boldizsar's message of "Fri, 21 May 1999 02:55:51 +0200" References: <005b01bea324$b5468380$0301620a@elemer.datacontact.hu> Message-ID: [Bencsath Boldizsar] > The problem, if i use special characters in the subject, some of the words > appear two times in the subject ... Actually, it wasn't related to use of special characters, but to the fact that the resulting subject header spanned multiple line. This (just-checked-in) patch should fix this problem: Index: Mailman/Message.py =================================================================== RCS file: /export/public/cvsroot/mailman/Mailman/Message.py,v retrieving revision 1.20 retrieving revision 1.21 diff -u -r1.20 -r1.21 --- Message.py 1999/03/09 02:42:09 1.20 +++ Message.py 1999/05/22 06:05:48 1.21 @@ -22,13 +22,10 @@ import string import time -# get our hacked copy of Python 1.5.2's rfc822.py -import rfc822 -try: - rfc822.Message.getallrecipients -except AttributeError: - # the standard module doesn't have our enhancement - from Mailman.pythonlib import rfc822 +# Python 1.5's version of rfc822.py is buggy and lacks features we +# depend on -- so we always use the up-to-date version distributed +# with Mailman. +from Mailman.pythonlib import rfc822 # Utility functions 2 of these classes use: @@ -153,47 +150,11 @@ return real_name def SetHeader(self, name, value, crush_duplicates=1): - # Well, we crush dups in the dict no matter what... - # XXX Note that as of Python 1.5.2, rfc822 message objects support - # a .__setattr__() that does what we want, so eventually we'll - # want to switch to that instead of mucking w/the internal rep. - newheader = not self.dict.has_key(string.lower(name)) - self.dict[string.lower(name)] = value - if value[-1] <> '\n': - value = value + '\n' - - if not crush_duplicates or newheader: - self.headers.append('%s: %s' % (name, value)) - return + if crush_duplicates: + self[name] = value else: - for i in range(len(self.headers)): - if (string.lower(self.headers[i][:len(name)+1]) == - string.lower(name) + ':'): - self.headers[i] = '%s: %s' % (name, value) - - # XXX Eventually (1.5.1?) Python rfc822.Message() will have its own - # __delitem__. - def __delitem__(self, name): - """Delete all occurrences of a specific header, if it is present.""" - name = string.lower(name) - if not self.dict.has_key(name): - return - del self.dict[name] - name = name + ':' - n = len(name) - list = [] - hit = 0 - for i in range(len(self.headers)): - line = self.headers[i] - if string.lower(line[:n]) == name: - hit = 1 - elif line[:1] not in string.whitespace: - hit = 0 - if hit: - list.append(i) - list.reverse() - for i in list: - del self.headers[i] + # Only bother with the dict + self.dict[string.lower(name)] = value # This is a simplistic class. It could do multi-line headers etc... # But it doesn't because I don't need that for this app. Thanks a lot for the bug report, -- Harald From Harald.Meland@usit.uio.no Sat May 22 14:43:59 1999 From: Harald.Meland@usit.uio.no (Harald Meland) Date: 22 May 1999 15:43:59 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] found a bug? "ValueError: bad marshal data" In-Reply-To: "Ricardo - Miss Janet. Fanclub"'s message of "Fri, 21 May 1999 08:21:23 +0200 (CEST)" References: Message-ID: [Ricardo - Miss Janet. Fanclub] > Hi, > > like i mentioned earlier, when i approve a post with admindb, the webbrowser > stalls for several seconds before closing the connection... well i just found > out that it generates an error in my apache logs (See below) > is this a bug? or does this mean one of the databases is corrupted? Looks like one of your pipermail archive databases (located under ~mailman/archive/private/LISTNAME/database/) is corrupt. Sorry to say, I don't know very much about these database files -- but, if you have a plain mbox archive of the list as well (located in ~mailman/archives/private/LISTNAME.mbox/LISTNAME.mbox), I guess the entire pipermail web archive can be regenerated from there. To regenerate, do rm -r ~mailman/archives/LISTNAME/ ~mailman/bin/arch LISTNAME ~mailman/archives/private/LISTNAME.mbox/LISTNAME.mbox (but make sure you have all the needed articles in the mbox archive first). > ps: don't you all agree mailman needs more publicity? Well, if it's _good_ publicity, then yes, of course :) > did rc1 get posted on freshmeat and stuff? Just checked, and yes, it seems like Barry did so. -- Harald From Harald.Meland@usit.uio.no Sat May 22 14:51:25 1999 From: Harald.Meland@usit.uio.no (Harald Meland) Date: 22 May 1999 15:51:25 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] stalled connection: archive locks? In-Reply-To: Ricardo Kustner's message of "Fri, 21 May 1999 14:05:31 +0200 (MET DST)" References: Message-ID: [Ricardo Kustner] > Hi, > > well i've traced my problem back to the fact that the > lock files in the archive directory are not being removed. > > they appear as: > 1999-May-subject.lock..<#####> > > where <#####> is a number... The number is the process ID (pid) of the locking process. If you do a "ps auxww | grep #####" (substituting "#####" with a number from a lock file), does any Mailman processes show up? > does anybody have the same problems? > > i think this might be what causes the process-overload on our server, when > an impatient moderator doesnt wait for the stalled page to completely finnish > and approve several posts at once, all of them waiting for lock files to be > released...? I'll look into it -- this may be related to a problem J C Lawrence has reported (with subject "Performance under load (bursty message flow)"). -- Harald From Harald.Meland@usit.uio.no Sat May 22 15:09:47 1999 From: Harald.Meland@usit.uio.no (Harald Meland) Date: 22 May 1999 16:09:47 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Error in Mailman Version: 1.0rc1 In-Reply-To: Richard Ellerbrock's message of "Fri, 21 May 1999 10:42:42 +0200" References: Message-ID: [Richard Ellerbrock] > I continuously get the following error in my error > log. Unfortunately I do not know what leads to the error. > > > admin: [----- Mailman Version: 1.0rc1 -----] > admin: [----- Traceback ------] > admin: Traceback (innermost last): > admin: File "/home/mailman/scripts/driver", line 112, in run_main > admin: main() > admin: File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/listinfo.py", line 40, in main > admin: FormatListinfoOverview() > admin: File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/listinfo.py", line 66, in FormatListinf > oOverview > admin: if port and http_host[-len(port)-1:] == ':'+port: > admin: AttributeError: __getslice__ Apparently your web server isn't defining the HTTP_HOST environment variable when running CGI scripts. The CGI/1.1 spec says that SERVER_NAME should hold The server's hostname, DNS alias, or IP address as it would appear in self-referencing URLs" (but doesn't mention HTTP_HOST...), so with the below (just-checked-in) patch Mailman falls back on SERVER_NAME when HTTP_HOST is unset: Index: listinfo.py =================================================================== RCS file: /export/public/cvsroot/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/listinfo.py,v retrieving revision 1.10 retrieving revision 1.11 diff -u -r1.10 -r1.11 --- listinfo.py 1999/05/02 22:57:45 1.10 +++ listinfo.py 1999/05/22 10:06:09 1.11 @@ -60,7 +60,8 @@ # XXX We need a portable way to determine the host by which we are being # visited! An absolute URL would do... - http_host = os.environ.get('HTTP_HOST') + http_host = os.environ.get('HTTP_HOST') or\ + os.environ.get('SERVER_NAME') port = os.environ.get('SERVER_PORT') # strip off the port if there is one if port and http_host[-len(port)-1:] == ':'+port: Thanks for the bug report, -- Harald From Harald.Meland@usit.uio.no Sat May 22 15:18:57 1999 From: Harald.Meland@usit.uio.no (Harald Meland) Date: 22 May 1999 16:18:57 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] another "mailman" product... In-Reply-To: Jerry Adlersfluegel's message of "Fri, 21 May 1999 15:39:07 -0500" References: <3745C46B.E9201DF8@fastrans.net> Message-ID: [Jerry Adlersfluegel] > I was going through some stuff on freshmeat, and I found another > program named "mailman." I don't know if this has been discussed > here before, but I thought I should point it out. > > http://www.endymion.com/products/mailman/ It's been brought up before, and each time the conclusion has been that since the functionality provided by these two software packages differs quite a bit, there a) hopefully won't be too much confusion and b) is no reason to fear lawsuits over the name. And, they apparently camelcase their name (MailMan) while we capitalize ours (Mailman) ;) -- Harald From M.Finselbach@gmx.de Sat May 22 16:56:33 1999 From: M.Finselbach@gmx.de (Michael Finselbach) Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 17:56:33 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Re: [Mailman-Users] stalled / locks?... corrupted database :( References: Message-ID: <3746D3B1.BC755EE3@gmx.de> Ricardo Kustner wrote: > > On 18-May-99 Ricardo Kustner wrote: > >> When I approve a post in the admindb interface (mailman rc1), the connection > >> "stalls" for several seconds after the new page has been brought up... the > >> weird thing is that the full html output has been displayed on the browser, > >> but apperantly, the http connection isn't closed immediately after this... > >> could this be a lock-file problem? > > i reply to my own post... when i approve a post and do a ps -ax on the > > server, i can see python hanging around as a "zombie" process during the > > stall-time of a the approval submit... > > i feel really stupid for being the only one to reply to my *own* posts... > (i guess nobody is taking me seriously??... :) ) Well, of course "we" all do ... I seem to have a similar problem -I mean, being the only one responding to my own mails. In contrast to you, I didn't find an answer - so I take the liberty to repost my original question: After having been asked to approve a mail send to a list, I go to the proposed webpage, enter my admin-pwd, klick on the approve button, submit the page - to no effect. The mail this lingers around, waiting to be approved. I am being asked for my pwd again, and could move around in that circle endlessly... If I ask my colleage (and webmaster, hence supposedly working with other rigths) it works. What am i missing ? (i will write again as I, as soon as my "approve" rights have grown accordingly :-)) -- mit freundlichen Gruessen Michael Finselbach ------------------------- HeLP PI Frankfurt Gutleutstr. 8 -12 60329 Frankfurt/M Tel: 069 / 2568 - 336 Fax: 069 / 2568 - 320 Pri: 06074 / 61419 From ricardo@miss-janet.com Sat May 22 20:25:36 1999 From: ricardo@miss-janet.com (Ricardo Kustner) Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 21:25:36 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [Mailman-Developers] stalled connection: archive locks? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi, On 22-May-99 Harald Meland wrote: > The number is the process ID (pid) of the locking process. If you do > a "ps auxww | grep #####" (substituting "#####" with a number from a > lock file), does any Mailman processes show up? i tried once to look for that pid but i couldn't find it in ps... i'll try it again. > Looks like one of your pipermail archive databases (located under > ~mailman/archive/private/LISTNAME/database/) is corrupt. > Sorry to say, I don't know very much about these database files -- > but, if you have a plain mbox archive of the list as well (located in > ~mailman/archives/private/LISTNAME.mbox/LISTNAME.mbox), I guess the thanks for the help... i've re-archived the mailinglist mbox, but now i'm getting errors in other places... to be honest, my mailman setup is a bit messy because i had to hurry with switching from majordomo and the permission problems were taking too much time.... it's really confusing that several different uid's on the server use the system (apache, exim and mailman through cron)... maybe i need to start cleaning it up ... if only there was some information somewhere on what exactly needs to be the permission settings for every directory/file (most of my directories are SGID)... i'd give my right arm for a check_permissions.sh script ;) > > ps: don't you all agree mailman needs more publicity? > Well, if it's _good_ publicity, then yes, of course :) at first i subscribed to the digest of mailman-users cause i was afraid i would get too much email...but it's nothing i can't handle... Ricardo. -- From dan@feld.cvut.cz Sat May 22 20:45:23 1999 From: dan@feld.cvut.cz (Dan Ohnesorg) Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 21:45:23 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [Mailman-Developers] another "mailman" product... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 22 May 1999, Harald Meland wrote: > [Jerry Adlersfluegel] > > > I was going through some stuff on freshmeat, and I found another > > program named "mailman." I don't know if this has been discussed > > here before, but I thought I should point it out. > > > > http://www.endymion.com/products/mailman/ > > It's been brought up before, and each time the conclusion has been > that since the functionality provided by these two software packages > differs quite a bit, there a) hopefully won't be too much confusion > and b) is no reason to fear lawsuits over the name. > > And, they apparently camelcase their name (MailMan) while we > capitalize ours (Mailman) ;) In the Czech republic is site (http://www.pandora.cz) which is runnig listserv called mailman and the autor have never heard about "our" mailman. But theyr mailman is not free software and it is not avalaible for any other. So it is not confusion. You cannot make some name unavalaible for other as long is the name widely known, as Linux or so. cheers dan -- ________________________________________ DDDDDD DD DD Dan Ohnesorg, supervisor on POWER DD OOOO Dan@feld.cvut.cz DD OODDOO Dep. of Power Engineering DDDDDD OO CTU FEL Prague, Bohemia OO OO work: +420 2 24352785;+420 2 24972109 OOOO home: +420 311 679679;+420 311 679311 ________________________________________ Uz je to tak. Nekteri lide se uzaviraji do sve veze z voloviny. From ricardo@miss-janet.com Sat May 22 23:02:28 1999 From: ricardo@miss-janet.com (Ricardo Kustner) Date: Sun, 23 May 1999 00:02:28 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [Mailman-Developers] stalled connections / locks continued In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi, First of all the connection stalls (i see a zombie python hanging around then btw) *after* an approved post has been submitted *and* the next page has been completely build on the screen (accept for the fact that the browser is still expecting data)... when i look at the source of ~mailman/Mailman/Cgi/admindb.py i see this : PrintRequests(doc) text = doc.Format(bgcolor="#ffffff") print text sys.stdout.flush() finally: list.Unlock() so print text seems to be ok... so it either hangs in the flush() or maybe the unlock fails? any hints on debugging this thing? Thanks, Ricardo. -- From lindsey@ncsa.uiuc.edu Mon May 24 02:49:23 1999 From: lindsey@ncsa.uiuc.edu (Christopher Lindsey) Date: Sun, 23 May 1999 20:49:23 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Re: [Mailman-Users] stalled / locks?... corrupted database :( In-Reply-To: <3746D3B1.BC755EE3@gmx.de> from "Michael Finselbach" at May 22, 99 05:56:33 pm Message-ID: <199905240149.UAA03598@ferret.ncsa.uiuc.edu> > After having been asked to approve a mail send to a list, I go to the > proposed webpage, enter my admin-pwd, klick on the approve button, submit the > page - to no effect. > The mail this lingers around, waiting to be approved. I am being asked for > my pwd again, and could move around in that circle endlessly... > If I ask my colleage (and webmaster, hence supposedly working with other rigths) > it works. > > What am i missing ? (i will write again as I, as soon as my "approve" rights have > grown accordingly :-)) Do you allow cookies to your browser? If you don't, it will keep prompting you for a password and never let you in. Chris From ricardo@miss-janet.com Wed May 26 21:37:40 1999 From: ricardo@miss-janet.com (Ricardo Kustner) Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 22:37:40 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [Mailman-Developers] stalled connection: archive locks? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi, On 22-May-99 Harald Meland wrote: >> i think this might be what causes the process-overload on our server, when >> an impatient moderator doesnt wait for the stalled page to completely >> finnish >> and approve several posts at once, all of them waiting for lock files to be >> released...? > I'll look into it -- this may be related to a problem J C Lawrence has > reported (with subject "Performance under load (bursty message > flow)"). I guess so -- it happened again this morning when a moderator was approving some posts, the server go a unbelievable high load: it took me about 30 minutes to get into a telnet session and issue a shutdown :( Everytime a post is approved, the connection stalls exactly 15 seconds (which happens to be exactly the timeout of the lockfiles in mailman)... usually when i had to do a shutdown, i have to replace ~mailman/lists/list-name/config.db with config.db.latest because it has become corrupted ("no such list") anyway, the server also handles mail and is supposed to be up 24h a day and i hope i can fix this soon cause this is getting unworkable :(... and this way i never get a cool uptime :) ps: sorry for cross-posting in mailman-users and develop ... Ricardo. -- From bwarsaw@cnri.reston.va.us (Barry A. Warsaw) Thu May 27 16:04:11 1999 From: bwarsaw@cnri.reston.va.us (Barry A. Warsaw) (Barry A. Warsaw) Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 11:04:11 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Performance under load (bursty message flow) References: Message-ID: <14157.24299.775547.44192@anthem.cnri.reston.va.us> >>>>> "JCL" == J C Lawrence writes: JCL> In running a number of lists at VA under mailman, I've JCL> noticed an apparent performance problem: multiple JCL> simultaneous deliveries to the same list performs badly. JCL> Locking? JC, I am now starting to see the same behavior on python.org. My machine is slammed at 100% cpu almost continuously doing about the same thing you're seeing. I'd classify this as a problem that requires a solution before 1.0 can go out. I have no idea what's going on, or how to fix it, and as I mentioned before I don't have the time right now to look into it. But I just wanted to say that it's a problem I have a vested interest in fixing (although I'd be pleased as punch if someone else works on it in the meantime :). -Barry From ricardo@miss-janet.com Sat May 29 09:25:28 1999 From: ricardo@miss-janet.com (Ricardo Kustner) Date: Sat, 29 May 1999 10:25:28 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [Mailman-Developers] RE: [Mailman-Users] Re: [Mailman-Developers] stalled connection: In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi, On 26-May-99 Ricardo Kustner wrote: >> I'll look into it -- this may be related to a problem J C Lawrence has >> reported (with subject "Performance under load (bursty message >> flow)"). > I guess so -- it happened again this morning when a moderator was approving > some > posts, the server go a unbelievable high load: it took me about 30 minutes to well... i just disabled mail archiving and now the stalled connection dropped back from 15 seconds to about 4... seems an improvement, but it still doesnt look right and i still have a "" python process flying around during these few seconds... i wish mailman had some debug flag so I could see at what point it is "stalling"... Ricardo. -- From bryner@uiuc.edu Sat May 1 00:39:01 1999 From: bryner@uiuc.edu (Brian Ryner) Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 18:39:01 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Error/crash in admindb - Solved Message-ID: <372A3F15.3214C666@uiuc.edu> First of all, the bug I reported earlier happens if you access this URL: http://host/mailman/admindb/ <-- note trailing slash It tries to cause an "Invalid options to CGI script" error, but can't because of the typo in Mailman/Cgi/admindb.py, line 77: doc.AddItem(eader(2, "Invalid options to CGI script.")) where Header is misspelled. That fixed the crash. But I think that this URL (admindb/) should work just like admindb without the slash -- it should say that you must specify a list. -Brian Ryner bryner@uiuc.edu From dragondm@integral.org Sat May 1 23:20:37 1999 From: dragondm@integral.org (The Dragon De Monsyne) Date: Sat, 1 May 1999 17:20:37 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [Mailman-Developers] mailman does not work with exim and python 1.5.2 In-Reply-To: <14118.11835.729973.250910@anthem.cnri.reston.va.us> Message-ID: (sorry fer th' delay, I'm on vacation & net access is scarce) On Tue, 27 Apr 1999, Barry A. Warsaw wrote: > > Oh dang. I just remembered that smtplib.py has a patch by Per > Cederqvist post Python 1.5.2. I'm going to copy that version to > Mailman/pythonlib and use it unconditionally. Dragon, how's that > sound? Should be fine , i've seen that patch (if it's the one I'm thinking of) Eventually that patch should be put in the std python lib sometime (1.5.3?) -The Dragon De Monsyne From bwarsaw@cnri.reston.va.us (Barry A. Warsaw) Sat May 1 23:34:54 1999 From: bwarsaw@cnri.reston.va.us (Barry A. Warsaw) (Barry A. Warsaw) Date: Sat, 1 May 1999 18:34:54 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Error/crash in admindb - 1.0b11 References: <3729DFC3.C3CF4F6E@uiuc.edu> Message-ID: <14123.33166.87250.152089@anthem.cnri.reston.va.us> >>>>> "BR" == Brian Ryner writes: BR> Also, is there a way that I can turn off the extraneous BR> debugging information sent to the WWW client, and have it just BR> be put in the log? The fact that it dumps so much information BR> about the system could be seen as a security risk. Not without hacking the driver script. -Barry From bwarsaw@cnri.reston.va.us (Barry A. Warsaw) Sat May 1 23:35:42 1999 From: bwarsaw@cnri.reston.va.us (Barry A. Warsaw) (Barry A. Warsaw) Date: Sat, 1 May 1999 18:35:42 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Error/crash in admindb - Solved References: <372A3F15.3214C666@uiuc.edu> Message-ID: <14123.33214.28986.233886@anthem.cnri.reston.va.us> >>>>> "BR" == Brian Ryner writes: BR> First of all, the bug I reported earlier happens if you access BR> this URL: BR> http://host/mailman/admindb/ <-- note trailing slash BR> It tries to cause an "Invalid options to CGI script" error, BR> but can't because of the typo in Mailman/Cgi/admindb.py, line BR> 77: BR> doc.AddItem(eader(2, "Invalid options to CGI script.")) BR> where Header is misspelled. That fixed the crash. But I BR> think that this URL (admindb/) should work just like admindb BR> without the slash -- it should say that you must specify a BR> list. Thanks for the bug report. It looks like Ken's fixed both problems for the next release. -Barry From bwarsaw@python.org Sun May 2 00:14:20 1999 From: bwarsaw@python.org (Barry A. Warsaw) Date: Sat, 1 May 1999 19:14:20 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Mailman-Developers] mailman does not work with exim and python 1.5.2 References: <14118.11835.729973.250910@anthem.cnri.reston.va.us> Message-ID: <14123.35532.365846.496272@anthem.cnri.reston.va.us> >>>>> "TDDM" == The Dragon De Monsyne writes: Dragon> Should be fine , i've seen that patch (if it's the one Dragon> I'm thinking of) Eventually that patch should be put in Dragon> the std python lib sometime (1.5.3?) It should be in there (that's where I snagged it from). Thanks, -Barry From bwarsaw@cnri.reston.va.us (Barry A. Warsaw) Mon May 3 00:51:19 1999 From: bwarsaw@cnri.reston.va.us (Barry A. Warsaw) (Barry A. Warsaw) Date: Sun, 2 May 1999 19:51:19 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Mailman-Developers] dots in list name -> archive not accessible? References: <199904211753.TAA23396@maestria.wu-wien.ac.at> Message-ID: <14124.58615.813020.708748@anthem.cnri.reston.va.us> >>>>> "GG" == Gerhard Gonter writes: GG> Once upon a time, one group of users decided that they need a GG> list called Assistent/Inn/En@wu-wien.ac.at and it took me a GG> while to convince them, that the / would not work so they GG> accepted Assistent.Inn.En@wu-wien.ac.at which worked quite GG> well on Listproc... GG> Today I moved the list, everything went fine except that the GG> archives were not accessible from the list overview page. This will be fixed in the next release. Thanks. -Barry From dick@acm.org Mon May 3 10:23:58 1999 From: dick@acm.org (Dick Porter) Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 10:23:58 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Separating executables from data Message-ID: <19990503102358.B8800@iidick.swan.ac.uk> --oOB74oR0WcNeq9Zb Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Attached is a patch against v1.0b11 which allows me to configure mailman with all executables installed on a read-only filesystem. The patch also has a few tests in configure.in nobbled, because I build on a different machine to the one that runs lists. (The mailman uid and gid tests seem to be superfluous anyway, as the only time the results are used in the code is in a Makefile rule that is never called). The FQDN and URL parameters have been hard-coded to a fixed string that I then edit with sed on the target machine when I install the RPM. I have left these changes in for completeness. I also include my RPM spec file. It has some vaguely interesting parts that are probably specific to my configuration (ie executables have to be in a directory owned by root and not writable by anyone else, due to Trusted Path Execution patches, and the mm_cfg.py has to be on a writable filesystem, hence the symlink into /etc) Even if these patches don't make it into the code, I'd appreciate it if someone could point out any potential problems with my configuration :-) - Dick PS I would have submitted these patches by jitterbug, but I couldn't see any way of attaching files there. --oOB74oR0WcNeq9Zb Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="mailman-1.0b11-uid+spool.patch" diff -ur -x configure mailman-1.0b11-orig/Mailman/Defaults.py.in mailman-1.0b11/Mailman/Defaults.py.in --- mailman-1.0b11-orig/Mailman/Defaults.py.in Tue Mar 30 19:42:22 1999 +++ mailman-1.0b11/Mailman/Defaults.py.in Thu Apr 29 11:54:07 1999 @@ -249,6 +249,7 @@ PYTHON = '@PYTHON@' PREFIX = '@prefix@' EXEC_PREFIX = '@exec_prefix@' +SPOOL_PREFIX = '@SPOOL_PREFIX@' # Work around a bogus autoconf 2.12 bug if EXEC_PREFIX == '${prefix}': @@ -283,17 +284,17 @@ ConcealSubscription = 16 -LIST_DATA_DIR = os.path.join(PREFIX, 'lists') +LIST_DATA_DIR = os.path.join(SPOOL_PREFIX, 'lists') HTML_DIR = os.path.join(PREFIX, 'public_html') CGI_DIR = os.path.join(EXEC_PREFIX, 'cgi-bin') -LOG_DIR = os.path.join(PREFIX, 'logs') -LOCK_DIR = os.path.join(PREFIX, 'locks') -DATA_DIR = os.path.join(PREFIX, 'data') +LOG_DIR = os.path.join(SPOOL_PREFIX, 'logs') +LOCK_DIR = os.path.join(SPOOL_PREFIX, 'locks') +DATA_DIR = os.path.join(SPOOL_PREFIX, 'data') WRAPPER_DIR = os.path.join(EXEC_PREFIX, 'mail') SCRIPTS_DIR = os.path.join(PREFIX, 'scripts') TEMPLATE_DIR = os.path.join(PREFIX, 'templates') -PUBLIC_ARCHIVE_FILE_DIR = os.path.join(PREFIX, 'archives/public') -PRIVATE_ARCHIVE_FILE_DIR = os.path.join(PREFIX, 'archives/private') +PUBLIC_ARCHIVE_FILE_DIR = os.path.join(SPOOL_PREFIX, 'archives/public') +PRIVATE_ARCHIVE_FILE_DIR = os.path.join(SPOOL_PREFIX, 'archives/private') # The Mailman version, also set by configure VERSION = "1.0b11" diff -ur -x configure mailman-1.0b11-orig/Makefile.in mailman-1.0b11/Makefile.in --- mailman-1.0b11-orig/Makefile.in Tue Mar 23 16:56:40 1999 +++ mailman-1.0b11/Makefile.in Thu Apr 29 13:47:24 1999 @@ -27,6 +27,7 @@ bindir= @bindir@ prefix= @prefix@ exec_prefix= @exec_prefix@ +SPOOL_PREFIX= @SPOOL_PREFIX@ CC= @CC@ INSTALL= @INSTALL@ @@ -41,11 +42,11 @@ OPT= @OPT@ CFLAGS= $(OPT) $(DEFS) -ARCH_INDEP_DIRS= logs archives bin \ - lists locks templates scripts filters cron data \ - archives/private archives/public \ +ARCH_INDEP_DIRS= bin \ + templates scripts filters cron \ Mailman Mailman/Cgi Mailman/Logging Mailman/Archiver Mailman/pythonlib ARCH_DEP_DIRS= cgi-bin mail +SPOOL_DIRS= logs archives lists locks data archives/private archives/public # Directories make should decend into SUBDIRS= bin cron filters mail misc Mailman scripts src templates @@ -84,7 +85,19 @@ else true; \ fi; \ done - chmod o-r $(prefix)/archives/private + @echo "Creating spool directories..." + @for d in $(SPOOL_DIRS); \ + do \ + dir=$(SPOOL_PREFIX)/$$d; \ + if test ! -d $$dir; then \ + echo "Creating directory hierarchy $$dir"; \ + ./mkinstalldirs $$dir; \ + chmod $(DIRMODE) $$dir; \ + $(DIRSETGID) $$dir; \ + else true; \ + fi; \ + done + chmod o-r $(SPOOL_PREFIX)/archives/private @echo "Creating architecture dependent directories..." @for d in $(ARCH_DEP_DIRS); \ do \ @@ -101,7 +114,7 @@ do \ (cd $$d; $(MAKE) install); \ done - $(PYTHON) -c 'import compileall; compileall.compile_dir("$(prefix)")' + #$(PYTHON) -c 'import compileall; compileall.compile_dir("$(prefix)")' @echo "*****" @echo "***** If you are installing over an old installation, please" @echo "***** run \"make update\". See the UPGRADING file for details." diff -ur -x configure mailman-1.0b11-orig/configure.in mailman-1.0b11/configure.in --- mailman-1.0b11-orig/configure.in Sun Feb 28 00:24:21 1999 +++ mailman-1.0b11/configure.in Thu Apr 29 11:54:07 1999 @@ -167,82 +167,82 @@ rm -f conftest.out conftest.py]) # User `mailman' must exist -AC_MSG_CHECKING(for mailman UID) -MM_FIND_USER_ID(MAILMAN_UID, mailman) -if test -z "$MAILMAN_UID" -then - AC_MSG_ERROR([ -***** No \"mailman\" user found! -***** Your system must have a \"mailman\" user defined (usually -***** in your /etc/passwd file). Please see the INSTALL file -***** file details.]) -fi +#AC_MSG_CHECKING(for mailman UID) +#MM_FIND_USER_ID(MAILMAN_UID, mailman) +#if test -z "$MAILMAN_UID" +#then +# AC_MSG_ERROR([ +#***** No \"mailman\" user found! +#***** Your system must have a \"mailman\" user defined (usually +#***** in your /etc/passwd file). Please see the INSTALL file +#***** file details.]) +#fi # Group `mailman' must exist -AC_MSG_CHECKING(for mailman GID) -MM_FIND_GROUP_ID(MAILMAN_GID, mailman) -if test -z "$MAILMAN_GID" -then - AC_MSG_ERROR([ -***** No \"mailman\" group found! -***** Your system must have a \"mailman\" group defined (usually -***** in your /etc/group file). Please see the INSTALL file -***** file details.]) -fi +#AC_MSG_CHECKING(for mailman GID) +#MM_FIND_GROUP_ID(MAILMAN_GID, mailman) +#if test -z "$MAILMAN_GID" +#then +# AC_MSG_ERROR([ +#***** No \"mailman\" group found! +#***** Your system must have a \"mailman\" group defined (usually +#***** in your /etc/group file). Please see the INSTALL file +#***** file details.]) +#fi # Now make sure that $prefix is set up correctly. It must be group # owned by `mailman', it must have the group sticky bit set, and it # must be a+rx -if test "$prefix" = "NONE" -then - prefixcheck=$ac_default_prefix -else - prefixcheck=$prefix -fi - -AC_MSG_CHECKING(permissions on $prefixcheck) -changequote(,) -cat > conftest.py < gid: - problems.append("Directory must be owned by group mailman: " + prefix) - if (mode & S_ISGID) <> S_ISGID: - problems.append("Set-gid bit must be set for directory: " +prefix) - perms = S_IRWXU | S_IRWXG | S_IROTH | S_IXOTH - if (mode & perms) <> perms: - problems.append("Permissions should be at least 0775: " + prefix) -if not problems: - msg = "okay\n" -else: - msg = '***** ' + string.join(problems, '\n***** ') + '\n' -fp = open("conftest.out", "w") -fp.write(msg) -fp.close() -EOF -changequote([, ]) -$PYTHON conftest.py -status=`cat conftest.out` -rm -f conftest.out conftest.py -if test "$status" != "okay" -then - AC_MSG_ERROR([ -***** Installation directory $prefixcheck is not configured properly! -$status]) -fi - -AC_MSG_RESULT(okay) +#if test "$prefix" = "NONE" +#then +# prefixcheck=$ac_default_prefix +#else +# prefixcheck=$prefix +#fi + +#AC_MSG_CHECKING(permissions on $prefixcheck) +#changequote(,) +#cat > conftest.py < gid: +# problems.append("Directory must be owned by group mailman: " + prefix) +# if (mode & S_ISGID) <> S_ISGID: +# problems.append("Set-gid bit must be set for directory: " +prefix) +# perms = S_IRWXU | S_IRWXG | S_IROTH | S_IXOTH +# if (mode & perms) <> perms: +# problems.append("Permissions should be at least 0775: " + prefix) +#if not problems: +# msg = "okay\n" +#else: +# msg = '***** ' + string.join(problems, '\n***** ') + '\n' +#fp = open("conftest.out", "w") +#fp.write(msg) +#fp.close() +#EOF +#changequote([, ]) +#$PYTHON conftest.py +#status=`cat conftest.out` +#rm -f conftest.out conftest.py +#if test "$status" != "okay" +#then +# AC_MSG_ERROR([ +#***** Installation directory $prefixcheck is not configured properly! +#$status]) +#fi +# +#AC_MSG_RESULT(okay) # Now find the UIDs and GIDs @@ -314,47 +314,49 @@ # figure out the DEFAULT_HOST_NAME and DEFAULT_URL AC_SUBST(FQDN) AC_SUBST(URL) -changequote(,) -cat > conftest.py < conftest.py < 1: - if parts[0] == 'www': - www = h - elif not fqdn: - fqdn = h -fp = open('conftest.out', 'w') -if not www and fqdn: - fp.write('%s\n%s\n' % (fqdn, fqdn)) -elif www: - dhn = string.join(string.split(www, '.')[1:], '.') - fp.write('%s\n%s\n' % (dhn, www)) -else: - fp.write('please.change.me\nwww.please.change.me\n') -fp.close() -EOF -$PYTHON conftest.py -changequote([, ]) -AC_MSG_CHECKING(for default fully qualified host name) -if test -z "$FQDN" -then - FQDN=`head -1 conftest.out` -fi -AC_MSG_RESULT($FQDN) -AC_MSG_CHECKING(for default URL host component) -if test -z "$URL" -then - URL=`tail -1 conftest.out` -fi -AC_MSG_RESULT($URL) -rm -f conftest.out conftest.py +#from socket import * +#import string +#fqdn = None +#www = None +#host, aliases, ipaddrs = gethostbyaddr(gethostbyname(gethostname())) +#aliases.insert(0, host) +#for h in aliases: +# parts = string.split(h, '.') +# if len(parts) > 1: +# if parts[0] == 'www': +# www = h +# elif not fqdn: +# fqdn = h +#fp = open('conftest.out', 'w') +#if not www and fqdn: +# fp.write('%s\n%s\n' % (fqdn, fqdn)) +#elif www: +# dhn = string.join(string.split(www, '.')[1:], '.') +# fp.write('%s\n%s\n' % (dhn, www)) +#else: +# fp.write('please.change.me\nwww.please.change.me\n') +#fp.close() +#EOF +#$PYTHON conftest.py +#changequote([, ]) +#AC_MSG_CHECKING(for default fully qualified host name) +#if test -z "$FQDN" +#then +# FQDN=`head -1 conftest.out` +#fi +#AC_MSG_RESULT($FQDN) +#AC_MSG_CHECKING(for default URL host component) +#if test -z "$URL" +#then +# URL=`tail -1 conftest.out` +#fi +#AC_MSG_RESULT($URL) +#rm -f conftest.out conftest.py +FQDN='$DOMAINNAME' +URL='$HOSTNAME' # Checks for libraries. AC_CHECK_FUNCS(strerror) @@ -370,6 +372,19 @@ # Checks for library functions. AC_FUNC_VPRINTF + +# Check for spool prefix, to place writable files in a different hierarchy +# to scripts. +AC_SUBST(SPOOL_PREFIX) +AC_ARG_WITH(spool-prefix, dnl +[ --spool-prefix specify destination for writable files]) +if test -z "$with_spool_prefix" +then + SPOOL_PREFIX=$prefix + with_spool_prefix='no' +else + SPOOL_PREFIX=$with_spool_prefix +fi dnl Output everything AC_OUTPUT([misc/paths.py Mailman/Defaults.py Mailman/mm_cfg.py.dist --oOB74oR0WcNeq9Zb Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="mailman.spec" Summary: Mailman mailing list manager Name: mailman Version: 1.0b11 Release: 1 Source: http://www.list.org/mailman.tar.gz Patch0: mailman-1.0b11-uid+spool.patch Buildroot: /tmp/mailman-build/ Copyright: GPL Group: Mail/List Prereq: python %description Mailman mailing list manager %prep %setup %patch0 -p1 -b .uid %build autoconf CFLAGS="$RPM_OPT_FLAGS" LDFLAGS=-s ./configure --prefix=/usr/share/mailman --exec-prefix=/usr/lib/mailman --with-spool-prefix=/var/spool/mailman --with-mail-gid=99 make %install rm -rf $RPM_BUILD_ROOT export RPM_BUILD_ROOT mkdir -p $RPM_BUILD_ROOT/etc/mailman make exec_prefix=$RPM_BUILD_ROOT/usr/lib/mailman prefix=$RPM_BUILD_ROOT/usr/share/mailman SPOOL_PREFIX=$RPM_BUILD_ROOT/var/spool/mailman install mv $RPM_BUILD_ROOT/usr/share/mailman/Mailman/mm_cfg.py $RPM_BUILD_ROOT/etc/mailman ln -s /etc/mailman/mm_cfg.py $RPM_BUILD_ROOT/usr/share/mailman/Mailman/mm_cfg.py cp $RPM_BUILD_ROOT/etc/mailman/mm_cfg.py $RPM_BUILD_ROOT/etc/mailman/mm_cfg.py-base %clean rm -rf $RPM_BUILD_ROOT %post /usr/bin/python -c 'import compileall; compileall.compile_dir("/usr/share/mailman")' >/dev/null 2>&1 /usr/bin/python -c 'import compileall; compileall.compile_dir("/usr/lib/mailman/mail")' >/dev/null 2>&1 %files %defattr(-, root, root, 755) /etc/mailman/mm_cfg.py /etc/mailman/mm_cfg.py-base /usr/share/mailman/Mailman /usr/share/mailman/bin /usr/share/mailman/cron /usr/share/mailman/filters /usr/share/mailman/scripts /usr/share/mailman/templates %dir /usr/lib/mailman/cgi-bin %dir /usr/lib/mailman/mail #/usr/lib/mailman/mail/paths.py %defattr(2755, root, mailman, 755) /usr/lib/mailman/cgi-bin/* /usr/lib/mailman/mail/wrapper %attr(2755, nobody, mailman) %dir /var/spool/mailman/archives %attr(2751, nobody, mailman) %dir /var/spool/mailman/archives/private %attr(2755, nobody, mailman) %dir /var/spool/mailman/archives/public %attr(2755, nobody, mailman) %dir /var/spool/mailman/data %attr(2755, nobody, mailman) %dir /var/spool/mailman/lists %attr(2755, nobody, mailman) %dir /var/spool/mailman/logs %attr(2755, nobody, mailman) %dir /var/spool/mailman/locks --oOB74oR0WcNeq9Zb-- From Harald.Meland@usit.uio.no Tue May 4 00:06:28 1999 From: Harald.Meland@usit.uio.no (Harald Meland) Date: 04 May 1999 01:06:28 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Stand-alone Mailman In-Reply-To: Christopher Petrilli's message of "Mon, 15 Mar 1999 12:46:01 -0500" References: <19990315124601.C13106@amber.org> Message-ID: [Christopher Petrilli] > Gang, > > So I've been tossing this idea over in my head... what do you think of > using a derivitive of CGIHTTPServer.py to drive Mailman so that one > could have an "out of hte box" solution... Well, it wouldn't *really* be "out of the box" anyway, as it wouldn't have any built-in MTA. > now not everyone WANTS this, but in the Zope world, we've found that > for evaluation, the lower the entry-point requirement the better. Something like this would of course have to be optional -- but yes, I think it would be kinda cool. But, as you should be able to deduce from the lag on this response, you shouldn't be holding your breath :) -- Harald From Harald.Meland@usit.uio.no Tue May 4 00:55:27 1999 From: Harald.Meland@usit.uio.no (Harald Meland) Date: 04 May 1999 01:55:27 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] fork() problem and popen2.py test In-Reply-To: Christian Tismer's message of "Tue, 09 Mar 1999 23:44:42 +0100" References: <36E5A45A.C4B81609@appliedbiometrics.com> Message-ID: [Christian Tismer] > The reason turned out to be dependent wether Python 1.5 (the early > version, of course) was made with threads or not. > The threaded version had a bad effect on sys.stdin after an > os.fork(). sys.stdin was a "bad file number" in the child process. > Maybe these are known things, but there are some issues: [...] > To the Mailmen: > It was quite hard to track this error down through the > mailman scripts. Finally, I ended up if I made the deliver > fork temporarily into a do-nothing. > The "deliver" script does a number of forks. I does no proper > checking if the forks work (under Linux, btw., fork never returns > ENOMEM, so the check isn't safe yet). I don't understand -- "forker(tries)" in the "deliver" script tries fork()ing, catches any exceptions raised, and re-raises them if a) the error causing the exception weren't EAGAIN or b) this were failed fork() number "tries"+1. Catching the exception is about as far as you can go to "check if the forks work", IMHO -- when fork() stops working, there usually aren't very many clever things worth doing (short of giving up), are there? > Deliverer.py also trusts the os.popen very much. Well, os.popen() should bail out by raising os.error whenever it's behaving "untrustworthy", shouldn't it? > Anyway, sys.stdin is read without error checking in the deliver > script. I think, some more checks are necessary to guarantee that > failing deliveries get noticed. I don't think I have understood enough of the problem to fix this properly, so any suggestions on exactly _what_ those extra checks should check for would be nice :) -- Harald From Harald.Meland@usit.uio.no Tue May 4 01:23:34 1999 From: Harald.Meland@usit.uio.no (Harald Meland) Date: 04 May 1999 02:23:34 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] mailman and AFS? In-Reply-To: Christopher Lindsey's message of "Wed, 31 Mar 1999 15:36:33 -0600 (CST)" References: <199903312136.PAA02853@ferret.ncsa.uiuc.edu> Message-ID: [Christopher Lindsey] > Now for the tricky part. AFS doesn't use standard UNIX permissions, > but instead depends on ACLs (ours uses Kerberos V for authentication). > To be able to write into the AFS space, any program or shell must > have a valid AFS token. > > I can do this by creating a "keytab" file; basically, that randomizes > the password but lets me use it in shell scripts, etc. I just need > to kinit against this file, do my operations, then do a kdestroy. > > Now for my questions: > > o where should I put these calls? I'm guessing that they should be > in wrapper, but do I also need to put it into every binary > in $prefix/cgi-bin? It appears that way... Both the wrapper and all the cgi-bin/* binaries use run_script() from src/common.c for exec()ing the python script that does the job. Off the top of my head, I can't think of anything that needs write access before run_script() is called. > o am I going to run into any locking issues with multiple email and > Web servers, or does mailman handle this? If Mailmans mailingliste locking scheme works on AFS, I don't think there should be any problems. > If so, how? See the MailList.Lock() and .Unlock() methods -- they currently use posixfile.lock(). > AFS (like NFS) often has problems with flock() or fcntl() > locking (so dot-locking is the preferred method). Changing Lock() and Unlock() should be pretty straightforward. > o does mailman actually do any permissions checking on files or > directories? These checks would fail in AFS Grepping the sources for ST_MODE told me of at least one place -- OutGoingQueue.isDeferred() works by checking the setuid bit of the queue file. If I remember my AFS correctly, there is no SUID bit -- so you'd need to change .enqueueMessage, .isDeferred and .deferMessage() to use some other scheme. > Any pointers and/or answers would be appreciated. Good luck, and let us know how things work out! -- Harald From Harald.Meland@usit.uio.no Tue May 4 02:12:45 1999 From: Harald.Meland@usit.uio.no (Harald Meland) Date: 04 May 1999 03:12:45 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Envelope sender and list-admin address In-Reply-To: Brian Ryner's message of "Mon, 05 Apr 1999 12:14:17 -0500" References: <3708EF69.991A02A@uiuc.edu> Message-ID: [Brian Ryner] > Hi- > > I reported a bug on this but I thought I'd also post here, becuause I > might try to correct this myself (and any advice would be appreciated). > > Basically, when a message is sent to the admin address (i.e. > mailman-developers-admin@python.org), the envelope sender is left > untouched when the message is resent. I don't think this is a good > idea. I agree -- we certainly don't want Mailman causing people to slacken their relaying restrictions. Unless anyone objects, I'll change Deliverer.DeliverToOwner so that it _always_ uses MailList.GetAdminEmail() as the envelope sender. -- Harald From Harald.Meland@usit.uio.no Tue May 4 02:23:55 1999 From: Harald.Meland@usit.uio.no (Harald Meland) Date: 04 May 1999 03:23:55 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Mailman on NT In-Reply-To: Gianni Sandrucci's message of "Thu, 22 Apr 1999 15:18:19 +0200" References: <371F219B.68A236AA@agora.it> Message-ID: [Gianni Sandrucci] > - made some minor changes in Mailmal files configure and src/Makefile.in > > - after some fighting with permissions (I was forced to comment tests on > these matters in configuration script and C source code) succeded to > ./configure --with-cgi-ext=.exe > make install (no errors reported) [...] > - called: http://localhost/mailman/cgi-bin/admin.exe > > Got an error (reported below). It seems Python is not able to locate > Mailman modules in /home/mailman/Mailman. I suspect that the reason python isn't finding any modules, is because the C wrappers do some funky stuff with the environment variable PYTHONPATH before python is exec()ed. I have no NT experience whatsoever, so you'll need to get someone else to confirm whether messing with that environment variable is likely to affect Win-Python at all. If it is, have a look in src/common.c, and convince yourself that the magic involving PREFIX, SCRIPTDIR, MODULEDIR, PYTHON and run_script() works as it should. Good luck, -- Harald From dan@feld.cvut.cz Tue May 4 14:52:37 1999 From: dan@feld.cvut.cz (Dan Ohnesorg) Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 15:52:37 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [Mailman-Developers] One sugestion to moderating Message-ID: I have chanded my ..admindb.. page, so that the submit button and radio buttons are inserted after the held message. It is match better, becouse you will first read the message and then make decision what now. I will sugest it as default for next releaeses. The patch is so simply, that I dont send it. It is better to make change manually. cheers dan ________________________________________ DDDDDD DD DD Dan Ohnesorg, supervisor on POWER DD OOOO Dan@feld.cvut.cz DD OODDOO Dep. of Power Engineering DDDDDD OO CTU FEL Prague, Bohemia OO OO work: +420 2 24352785;+420 2 24972109 OOOO home: +420 311 679679;+420 311 679311 ________________________________________ Pesimista vidi v ementalskem syru jen ty diry. From julian7@kva.hu Tue May 4 21:48:20 1999 From: julian7@kva.hu (Balazs Nagy) Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 22:48:20 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [Mailman-Developers] nomail issue ($.02 worth) Message-ID: Hiyas, I am sorry that I cannot do anything for Mailman right now because of my new job. BTW I read these lists and I get the CVS tree regulary. I think it would be nice if the users would be notified about their subscription status (parameters) with the monthly password notification. Just my two cents by now. -- Regards: Kevin (Balazs) From bwarsaw@python.org Tue May 4 23:32:52 1999 From: bwarsaw@python.org (bwarsaw@python.org) Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 18:32:52 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Mailman-Developers] [ANNOUNCE] Mailman 1.0rc1 Message-ID: <14127.30100.803519.853792@anthem.cnri.reston.va.us> Hi folks, Mailman 1.0 release candidate 1 (1.0rc1) has just been uploaded to www.list.org. Barring any major screwups by me, this will be the final 1.0 release. The next step is to create the GNU web pages. I just want to personally thank everyone who's helped with ideas, contributions, suggestions, and support in getting us to where we are. Here are a few things to note about this release: - We have a logo contest winner! By a narrow margin, Dragon's logo has won. My thanks to the other 3 logo creators; in different ways I liked them all, and they are all much better than /I/ could ever have done! Mailman will now display Dragon's small logo on (most) generated pages; I may have missed a few, but those will all be fixed when we revamp the page designs after 1.0. You need to read the instructions in the INSTALL file for putting mailman.gif in a place that your Web server can find them, and for setting up the img src URL. Comments on how to improve this manual installation step would be appreciated. - There is a new cron/mailpasswd script which groups users by virtual domains if mm_cfg.VIRTUAL_HOST_OVERVIEW is true (the default). While I've tested this feature, I would /really/ appreciate some more detailed testing by you folks who run multiple virtual domains (hi Greg S. :-). Please, let's not wait until June 1 to find out something is broken, but also be careful not to spam too many of your users! - If anybody feels like they are being left out of the ACKNOWLEDGEMENTS file, or have any other updates for this file, please send them directly to me. I haven't kept up with this as well as I should have, so don't be shy. :-) That's all I can think of. Grab the tarball from http://www.list.org/mailman.tar.gz Enjoy, -Barry P.S. I'll probably somewhat unresponsive to the mailing lists for a while. I need to concentrate on getting the next JPython release out. From bryner@uiuc.edu Wed May 5 03:46:08 1999 From: bryner@uiuc.edu (Brian Ryner) Date: Tue, 04 May 1999 21:46:08 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Suggestion: script to fix permissions Message-ID: <372FB0F0.3DBCCDEB@uiuc.edu> Would it be difficult to implement a script that would make sure the ownership and permissions are right on all of the mailman files? I inadvertently removed all of the setgid attributes on the directories and had to redo them by hand... ("make install" wouldn't set the mode because the directory already existed) -Brian Ryner bryner@uiuc.edu From gumi@IPN.de Wed May 5 12:56:00 1999 From: gumi@IPN.de (Gunter Mintzel) Date: Wed, 05 May 1999 13:56:00 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Translation of admin interface Message-ID: <7GIHnHR0pbB@system7.ipn.de> Berlin, May 5, 1999 Hello developers, as a German ISP we provide Mailman as our basic mailing-list software. We have translated most of the documents in the /template directory into German language to make them usable for our customers. As far as we discovered there are no templates for the admin interface and the Pipermail package. We like both Python and the Mailman software and would like to translate these parts also as soon as the v1.0 release is out. Of course we don´t like to reinvent the wheel if somebody else did this already. Is there any solution around that I just did not see? How can we contribute? Gunter -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Gunter Mintzel - IPN-Berlin - http://www.ipn.de - Tel. +49-30-5360 2222 From Benjamin B. Thomas" bwarsaw@python.org writes: > ...this will be the final 1.0 release. > The next step is to create the GNU web pages. > Mailman will now display Dragon's small logo on (most) generated > pages; > You need to read the instructions in the INSTALL file for putting > mailman.gif in a place... ^^^ Hi there! Since Mailman is a GNU project, won't there be problems if it makes heavy use of GIFs? I personally do not care if GIFs are used or not, but I suspect that Stallman will be quite displeased if Mailman itself or the Mailman pages at the GNU site use GIFs. I just wanted to point this out before too much work was invested. From http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/gif.html > There are no GIFs on the GNU web site because of the patents (Unisys and IBM) > covering the LZW compression algorithm which is used in making GIF files. > These patents make it impossible to have free software to generate proper > GIFs. They also apply to the compress program, which is why GNU does not use > it or its format. Cheers, benjy 1975 Cahaba Valley Road (205) 988-4268 Indian Springs, AL 35124 benjy@alum.mit.edu From gorgo@caesar.elte.hu Wed May 5 22:33:27 1999 From: gorgo@caesar.elte.hu (Gergely Madarasz) Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 23:33:27 +0200 (METDST) Subject: [Mailman-Developers] small fix for admindb Message-ID: Hello, There were already some comments about the problems with <> characters on the admindb pages... here is a small fix, I hope it doesnt break anything else :) but I don't think it could :) --- Mailman/Cgi/admindb.py~ Sat Apr 3 18:55:45 1999 +++ Mailman/Cgi/admindb.py Wed May 5 23:04:46 1999 @@ -247,7 +247,7 @@ FontSize("+1", Bold('Contents:')) ]) form.AddItem(t) - form.AddItem(Preformatted(val[2][1])) + form.AddItem(Preformatted(Utils.QuoteHyperChars(val[2][1]))) form.AddItem('

') -- Madarasz Gergely gorgo@caesar.elte.hu gorgo@linux.rulez.org It's practically impossible to look at a penguin and feel angry. Egy pingvinre gyakorlatilag lehetetlen haragosan nezni. HuLUG: http://mlf.linux.rulez.org/ From bwarsaw@cnri.reston.va.us (Barry A. Warsaw) Wed May 5 22:52:04 1999 From: bwarsaw@cnri.reston.va.us (Barry A. Warsaw) (Barry A. Warsaw) Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 17:52:04 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Mailman-Developers] GNU GIF problems - was [ANNOUNCE] Mailman 1.0rc1 References: <199905052133.QAA30963@mail.indiansprings.org> Message-ID: <14128.48516.246899.774202@anthem.cnri.reston.va.us> >>>>> "BBT" == Benjamin B Thomas writes: BBT> Hi there! Since Mailman is a GNU project, won't there be BBT> problems if it makes heavy use of GIFs? I personally do not BBT> care if GIFs are used or not, but I suspect that Stallman BBT> will be quite displeased if Mailman itself or the Mailman BBT> pages at the GNU site use GIFs. Good point. It's not that hard to convert them to PNGs (or JPEGs? GNU.org seems strangely silent on this) for the 1.0 release. If Dragon doesn't have time to do it, I'll do it before the final release. Thanks, -Barry From Benjamin B. Thomas" References: <199905052133.QAA30963@mail.indiansprings.org> <14128.48516.246899.774202@anthem.cnri.reston.va.us> Message-ID: <199905060005.TAA02215@mail.indiansprings.org> Quoting "Barry A. Warsaw" : > Good point. It's not that hard to convert them to PNGs (or JPEGs? When saving as JPEG, be sure to play around with the quality setting a little bit. Unfortunately, JPEGs tend to smear sharp borders a little bit since the compression is lossy. We might get lucky and have this actually enhance the "rubber stamp" look of Dragon's logo (It would have been a definite Bad Thing(tm) for any of the other possible logos due to their sharp lines). I just tried saving the logos as JPEG with XV at 100% quality with 0% smoothing, and the results are fairly acceptable. dragonsmall.gif grew by only 200 bytes, while dragonlogo.gif grew by about 5K. Take a look at http://mail.indiansprings.org/people/benjy/dragonsmall.jpg and http://mail.indiansprings.org/people/benjy/dragonlogo.jpg Use the browser to flip back and forth between the original files to compare (they are also at the same location). Use them if you like, or try using GIMP or another tool to see if you can get any improvement. PNG will better preserve the image quality, but there are enough 3.x and early 4.0 browsers in use that PNG might not be a good choice from an end user point of view. Of course, you can always include both versions and let the individual webmaster decide if he wants to support non-PNG browsers. The patent problem is really too bad, since GIF was the best all around format for these particluar images. Cheers, benjy 1975 Cahaba Valley Road (205) 988-4268 Indian Springs, AL 35124 benjy@alum.mit.edu From dragondm@integral.org Thu May 6 07:26:16 1999 From: dragondm@integral.org (The Dragon De Monsyne) Date: Thu, 6 May 1999 01:26:16 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [Mailman-Developers] GNU GIF problems - was [ANNOUNCE] Mailman 1.0rc1 In-Reply-To: <199905060005.TAA02215@mail.indiansprings.org> Message-ID: On Wed, 5 May 1999, Benjamin B. Thomas wrote: > Quoting "Barry A. Warsaw" : > > > Good point. It's not that hard to convert them to PNGs (or JPEGs? > Hmmm... Well, for one thing PNG's will be easy to get, I actually origionally created the images as PNG's then converted them to GIF's. (the images were created with the debian-packaged version of the GIMP, which dosen't support GIF's for exactly this reason.) I'll hunt arond for the origionals > When saving as JPEG, be sure to play around with the quality setting a little > bit. Unfortunately, JPEGs tend to smear sharp borders a little bit since the > compression is lossy. We might get lucky and have this actually enhance the > "rubber stamp" look of Dragon's logo (It would have been a definite Bad > Thing(tm) for any of the other possible logos due to their sharp lines). > :> > I just tried saving the logos as JPEG with XV at 100% quality with 0% smoothing, > and the results are fairly acceptable. dragonsmall.gif grew by only 200 bytes, > while dragonlogo.gif grew by about 5K. Take a look at > > http://mail.indiansprings.org/people/benjy/dragonsmall.jpg and > http://mail.indiansprings.org/people/benjy/dragonlogo.jpg > Those look pretty good. -The Dragon De Monsyne From matteo@ibm.net Sat May 8 01:35:39 1999 From: matteo@ibm.net (matteo) Date: Fri, 07 May 1999 20:35:39 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] suggestions regarding announce only configurations Message-ID: <373386DB.B46A2D38@ibm.net> thanks for the great program! i'm using mailman both for general lists and announce-only. i can approximate a good announce only configuration by editing html to hide things like the list submit address, etc, after turning them off but it would be wonderful to be able to semi-automatically create a list that has this already done, by having the html turn off automatically when you deselect an option. another possibility would be to have multiple default configurations, so that once you configured one, you could duplicate it. ( i guess there are probably some files that you could copy over to do that but im not sure which) the piece that was the most problematic was the subscriber list- we dont want people to see a list of subscribers (or the possibility of a list, even if they cant use it) it on an announce list, but if we hide the html, we need to create an html stub that contains the form post code. if you included the subscriber-list control to the admin page, when you hide the html in the listinfo page, it still is available to the listadmin. (perhaps the cgi could ask for the posting fields or use existing admin auth info if called directly?) thanks again matteo From julian7@kva.hu Sat May 8 09:23:40 1999 From: julian7@kva.hu (Balazs Nagy) Date: Sat, 8 May 1999 10:23:40 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [Mailman-Developers] GNU GIF problems - was [ANNOUNCE] Mailman 1.0rc1 In-Reply-To: <199905052133.QAA30963@mail.indiansprings.org> Message-ID: On Wed, 5 May 1999, Benjamin B. Thomas wrote: > >From http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/gif.html > > > There are no GIFs on the GNU web site because of the patents (Unisys and > > IBM) covering the LZW compression algorithm which is used in making GIF > > files. These patents make it impossible to have free software to > > generate proper GIFs. They also apply to the compress program, which is > > why GNU does not use it or its format. Well. Check out libungif or gd. These packages use no or non-LZW (free) compression and they work fine. -- Regards: Kevin (Balazs) From klm@digicool.com Sat May 8 15:51:48 1999 From: klm@digicool.com (Ken Manheimer) Date: Sat, 8 May 1999 10:51:48 -0400 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] suggestions regarding announce only conf igurations Message-ID: <613145F79272D211914B0020AFF640190BEEBF@gandalf.digicool.com> On friday, Matteo wrote: > i'm using mailman both for general lists and announce-only. i can > approximate a good announce only > configuration by editing html to hide things like the list submit > address, etc, after turning them off > but it would be wonderful to be able to semi-automatically create a list > that has this already done, by having the html turn off automatically > when you deselect an option. another possibility would be to have Mailman tends to emphasize configuration options for these kinds of things. For instance... > the piece that was the most problematic was the subscriber list- we dont > want people to see a list of subscribers (or the possibility of a list, > even if they cant use it) it on an announce list, but if we hide the > html, we need to create an html stub that contains the form post code. Why not set the "Who can view subscription list" privacy option to "List admin only"? (It's on http:///mailman/admin//privacy .) Ken Manheimer klm@digicool.com From claw@varesearch.com Thu May 13 04:47:33 1999 From: claw@varesearch.com (J C Lawrence) Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 20:47:33 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Performance under load (bursty message flow) Message-ID: In running a number of lists at VA under mailman, I've noticed an apparent performance problem: multiple simultaneous deliveries to the same list performs badly. Locking? One particular list tends to receive large numbers of messages over short time periods (eg 50 messages with less than a minute) followed by long periods of inactivity (eg an hour). The result is that multiple (typically a dozen) simultaneous instances of mailman are invoked for that list. Watching a mail bomb come thru the apparent behavious is curious: The first batch gets thru fine (ie # of simultansous deliveries as set in the MTS cfg), each individual message seperated from the others by fractions of a second. But the second run (which all start within milliseconds of each other) all seem to block on .lock for the same time period, and to then spin, all unlocking and relocking in synch and getting nowhere. Certainly the wait time on the lock is rather long (I haven't checked the source). Perhaps a shorter default lock time plus a random factor? Eeek. System is a 400MHz PII, 128Meg RAM, Python 1.5, RH 5.2, all updates, latest CVS version of MailMan. -- J C Lawrence Home: claw@kanga.nu ---------(*) Linux/IA64 - Work: claw@varesearch.com ... Beware of cromagnons wearing chewing gum and palm pilots ... From ricardo@miss-janet.com Thu May 13 13:59:30 1999 From: ricardo@miss-janet.com (Ricardo Kustner) Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 14:59:30 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [Mailman-Developers] admindb features Message-ID: Hi, Here are some Moderate features I think would be really usefull in mailman: 1. an option to resend / forward a message held for approval to a certain e-mail address. why? sometimes you don't want to accept a post on the mailinglist, but you want to be able to show it to others (fellow moderators for example) 2. filter html... s/****COMMENT FROM MODERATOR******* > >Read the INSTALL file in the source tree! > >****END OF MODERATOR COMMENT***** Hi, how can i install mailman on my redhat linux system? Thanks. ======== i'm going to try to make these changes in my running mailman myself, but i dont have much experience with python yet so i probably won't Do It The Right Way (tm) ... but hopefully some of the features will appear in a future release of mailman. Ricardo. -- From Harald.Meland@usit.uio.no Fri May 14 10:49:19 1999 From: Harald.Meland@usit.uio.no (Harald Meland) Date: 14 May 1999 11:49:19 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] small fix for admindb In-Reply-To: Gergely Madarasz's message of "Wed, 5 May 1999 23:33:27 +0200 (METDST)" References: Message-ID: [Gergely Madarasz] > Hello, > > There were already some comments about the problems with <> characters on > the admindb pages... here is a small fix, I hope it doesnt break anything > else :) but I don't think it could :) > > --- Mailman/Cgi/admindb.py~ Sat Apr 3 18:55:45 1999 > +++ Mailman/Cgi/admindb.py Wed May 5 23:04:46 1999 > @@ -247,7 +247,7 @@ > FontSize("+1", Bold('Contents:')) > ]) > form.AddItem(t) > - form.AddItem(Preformatted(val[2][1])) > + form.AddItem(Preformatted(Utils.QuoteHyperChars(val[2][1]))) > form.AddItem('

') Thanks for the patch -- however, I suspect this should be fixed at a lower level. Is Mailman (or anyone) ever likely to want unquoted special-HTML-chars in a "Preformatted" item? If not (which is what I suspect to be the case), then overriding htmlformat.Preformatted.Format() would be better. Opinions, anyone? -- Harald From aahz@searchbutton.com Fri May 14 21:52:12 1999 From: aahz@searchbutton.com (Aahz) Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 13:52:12 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] In-Reply-To vs. References Message-ID: <219B76713101D31183B000902762824E2B1C@temp-search.searchbutton.com> We've been having a discussion on comp.lang.py about Mailman's handling of headers in the context of (not) threading messages, and Barry Warsaw suggested that I continue the discussion here. Summary: I propose that in the mail-to-news gateway (but not the other direction), if the In-Reply-To: header exists but the References: header does not, copy In-Reply-To to References. Background: In a large fraction of e-mail programs, the In-Reply-To header contains the Message-ID of the message being responded to. According to RFC822, both In-Reply-To and References are valid for this purpose. However, newsreaders only recognize the References header (RFC1036). The absence of a References header frequently breaks the ability of newsreaders to thread messages together. (Most newsreaders can still do Subject-based grouping, but that's not the same thing as threading.) Much of the discussion on comp.lang.py has revolved around the fact that it's a Bad Idea to muck around with headers (a philosophy I generally agree with). However, it seems to me that in this case there is a clear translation issue between the domain of e-mail messages and the domain of newsgroup postings (as specified by the appropriate RFCs) and that the potential negative consequences are minimal. (I foresee some possible oddities if someone replies to a private e-mail message and cc's the mailing list -- but that problem already exists if an e-mail program uses References instead of In-Reply-To.) From Harald.Meland@usit.uio.no Fri May 14 22:23:27 1999 From: Harald.Meland@usit.uio.no (Harald Meland) Date: 14 May 1999 23:23:27 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] In-Reply-To vs. References In-Reply-To: Aahz's message of "Fri, 14 May 1999 13:52:12 -0700" References: <219B76713101D31183B000902762824E2B1C@temp-search.searchbutton.com> Message-ID: [Aahz] > We've been having a discussion on comp.lang.py about Mailman's handling of > headers in the context of (not) threading messages, and Barry Warsaw > suggested that I continue the discussion here. > > Summary: > I propose that in the mail-to-news gateway (but not the other direction), if > the In-Reply-To: header exists but the References: header does not, copy > In-Reply-To to References. (Not having read c.l.p,) I don't understand how such a proposition could generate much of a discussion :) If an email contains an In-Reply-To: header, I'd guess it is due to it being a reply. If this email is gated to news, the fact that it is a reply, and preferably what message it is a reply to, should be indicated somehow. If such an indication can only be given by having the news-gate muck around with the headers of the message, _and_ such mucking won't destroy any of the _original_ headers of the message, I don't really see the harm. Of course, in an ideal world, every mail client would use the (IMHO) superior References: mechanism, and this wouldn't be an issue. However, as the world is slightly less than ideal, Mailman should strive to make the _appearance_ of the world as ideal as possible. Having threading broken when gating to news does not do much for composing an ideal appearance :) However, as I can see that this might be a slightly religious matter :), I'll wait for other opinions (and read the discussion in c.l.p) before trying to actually implement it (as this is something I _don't_ think should be made optional). -- Harald From Harald.Meland@usit.uio.no Fri May 14 23:18:23 1999 From: Harald.Meland@usit.uio.no (Harald Meland) Date: 15 May 1999 00:18:23 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] In-Reply-To vs. References In-Reply-To: Harald Meland's message of "14 May 1999 23:23:27 +0200" References: <219B76713101D31183B000902762824E2B1C@temp-search.searchbutton.com> Message-ID: [Harald Meland] > (Not having read c.l.p,) I don't understand how such a proposition > could generate much of a discussion :) Having read the discussion in c.l.p, I now understand :) > If an email contains an In-Reply-To: header, I'd guess it is due to it > being a reply. If this email is gated to news, the fact that it is a > reply, and preferably what message it is a reply to, should be > indicated somehow. > > If such an indication can only be given by having the news-gate muck > around with the headers of the message, _and_ such mucking won't > destroy any of the _original_ headers of the message, I don't really > see the harm. ... and before anyone gets religious on me here, I'll rush to explain that I _do_ see the harm of inserting "faulty" References: headers -- any In-Reply-To: candidate should at the very least be in the form of a valid message ID. I think there was a slightly similar discussion on the (ding) Gnus mailing list a while back -- it was spurred by the fact that Gnus' threading sometimes broke down, as some mailers put several message-id-look-a-like-tags (e.g. mail addresses in angle brackets) in their In-Reply-To: header. Thus, Mailman should be very conservative when moving MessageID-candidates from In-Reply-To: to References: -- it might even be a good idea to query the newsserver whether it has the candidate replied-to article (even though that probably won't work with all newsserver configurations). If the appropriate level of conservatism can be reached without making the involved code *too* complex, I still believe this particular case of header mucking could be a Good Thing. -- Harald From aahz@searchbutton.com Fri May 14 23:26:45 1999 From: aahz@searchbutton.com (Aahz) Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 15:26:45 -0700 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] In-Reply-To vs. References Message-ID: <219B76713101D31183B000902762824E2B1F@temp-search.searchbutton.com> Harald Meland wrote: > > ... and before anyone gets religious on me here, I'll rush to explain > that I _do_ see the harm of inserting "faulty" References: headers -- > any In-Reply-To: candidate should at the very least be in the form of > a valid message ID. > > I think there was a slightly similar discussion on the (ding) Gnus > mailing list a while back -- it was spurred by the fact that Gnus' > threading sometimes broke down, as some mailers put several > message-id-look-a-like-tags (e.g. mail addresses in angle brackets) in > their In-Reply-To: header. Threading is already broken on the newsreader side if References: doesn't exist. I'd say that as long as it has the correct form, pass it on. (I'm also making the possible faulty assumption that the Gnus problem manifested in the context of reading a mailing list rather than a newsgroup.) From jeffh@streek.com Sun May 16 19:13:34 1999 From: jeffh@streek.com (Jeff Hahn) Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 13:13:34 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Bug in archive dating in 1.0RC1 Message-ID: <00a701be9fc7$cf8ec0a0$1e0a5ad1@SINGSING.STREEK.COM> background: list has the "Set date in archive to when the mail is claimed to have been sent, or to the time we resend it?" set to WHEN RESENT email message with the following headers creates an archive record in September of 2022! NOTE: look at the second Received: line. names and IP addresses have been "sanitized" to protect STUPID IDIOT who is running a mail server with the date set at Fri, 2 Sep 2022 Mailman still should have ignored the date and used the date when MAILMAN resent it (or am I wrong about that option's intent?) I apologize for not jumping in to fix this, but I'm really pressed for the next couple of days and I don't know how tight a schedule we are on for the release candidates... -Jeff From Harald.Meland@usit.uio.no Tue May 18 15:42:46 1999 From: Harald.Meland@usit.uio.no (Harald Meland) Date: 18 May 1999 16:42:46 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Bug in archive dating in 1.0RC1 In-Reply-To: Jeff Hahn's message of "Sun, 16 May 1999 13:13:34 -0500" References: <00a701be9fc7$cf8ec0a0$1e0a5ad1@SINGSING.STREEK.COM> Message-ID: [Jeff Hahn] > background: > > list has the "Set date in archive to when the mail is claimed to have been > sent, or to the time we resend it?" set to WHEN RESENT > > email message with the following headers creates an archive record in > September of 2022! NOTE: look at the second Received: line. I'm unable to reproduce this. If anyone else see similar effects, or know how to make this reproducible (or maybe even can produce a patch to fix this :), please speak up. It should be noted, though, that the "clobber_date" configuration option only seems to be supported by the __archive_to_mbox() method, and not by the ArchiveMail() method that Post() invokes. There are comments in there indicating that __archive_to_mbox is a previous but now renamed ArchiveMail() -- but I don't know whether it's intended for the current ArchiveMail() method not to care about clobber_date. -- Harald From atus@ebizlab.hit.bme.hu Thu May 20 10:41:17 1999 From: atus@ebizlab.hit.bme.hu (Bognar, Attila) Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 11:41:17 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [Mailman-Developers] features suggestion: languages Message-ID: Hi all, I'm quite new to this list. I faced a "problem": I run a maillists for Hungarian people and the problem is that some of them don't speak english very much. So I have/should change the English text to Hungarian. So what I suggest: when creating a new list, there could be a question, which asks what language the list should be. The datas of languages could be taken for example from ~mailman/templates/hungarian/ What do you think? Attila From Harald.Meland@usit.uio.no Thu May 20 14:01:40 1999 From: Harald.Meland@usit.uio.no (Harald Meland) Date: 20 May 1999 15:01:40 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] features suggestion: languages In-Reply-To: "Bognar, Attila"'s message of "Thu, 20 May 1999 11:41:17 +0200 (CEST)" References: Message-ID: [Bognar, Attila] > Hi all, > > I'm quite new to this list. > I faced a "problem": I run a maillists for Hungarian people and the > problem is that some of them don't speak english very much. So I > have/should change the English text to Hungarian. > > So what I suggest: > when creating a new list, there could be a question, which asks what > language the list should be. > The datas of languages could be taken for example from > ~mailman/templates/hungarian/ > > What do you think? The issue has been brought up a number of times before -- and at the moment, there's not much more to say about it than "Support for internationalization is one of the things high on our TODO list for post-1.0". -- Harald From boldi@rulez.org Fri May 21 01:55:51 1999 From: boldi@rulez.org (Bencsath Boldizsar) Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 02:55:51 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] getheader-setheader Message-ID: <005b01bea324$b5468380$0301620a@elemer.datacontact.hu> i have submitted this as bug, but i get some expertise in mailman python routines ;)) so : The problem, if i use special characters in the subject, some of the words appear two times in the subject ... To: , Subject: =?iso-8859-2?B?Rnc6IGZ1cmEg6WdpIG1hc2luYSBu9nZlbGkgbWFnYXNz4WfhdCA=?= =?iso-8859-2?B?bmFwaG9zc3phdCBr7Xbpbg==?= Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 01:04:51 +0200 This is the original header. Note, that the Subject: header has TWO lines.. Getheader is parsing well. But setheader is going to do: else: for i in range(len(self.headers)): if (string.lower(self.headers[i][:len(name)+1]) == string.lower(name) + ':'): self.headers[i] = '%s: %s' % (name, value) (1.0rc1-message.py [ line 173 of 307 (56%), character 5740 of 9761 (58%) ]) Because of this, setheader () takes out ONE line, not BOTH. I am not using python, so dont know even the basic commands, would anyone help me to correct this bug and sending me before the next release comes out? ;) I think it should be no problem with my instructions boldi -answer in private(i'm not a developer ) boldi@budapest.hu From ricardo@miss-janet.com Fri May 21 07:21:23 1999 From: ricardo@miss-janet.com (Ricardo - Miss Janet. Fanclub) Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 08:21:23 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [Mailman-Developers] found a bug? "ValueError: bad marshal data" Message-ID: Hi, like i mentioned earlier, when i approve a post with admindb, the webbrowser stalls for several seconds before closing the connection... well i just found out that it generates an error in my apache logs (See below) is this a bug? or does this mean one of the databases is corrupted? if so, how can i fix it? i'm using mailman rc1 on Linux 2.0.36, i upgraded python to 1.5.2 yesterday, but the same problems were before that. ps: don't you all agree mailman needs more publicity? i think it's one of the best mailinglist solutions... but one of the powers behind GNU like software is when many people help to develop it; and i'm sure there are a lot of developers out there who can and want to help... i gotta start learning python soon! :) did rc1 get posted on freshmeat and stuff? Thanks... Ricardo. [Fri May 21 06:34:29 1999] [error] [client 212.206.29.123] File does not exist: /usr/local/www/miss-janet.com/www/images/mailman.gif Traceback (innermost last): File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/Archiver.py", line 209, in ArchiveMail h.processUnixMailbox(f, HyperArch.Article) File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/pipermail.py", line 381, in processUnixMailbox self.add_article(a) # Add the article File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/HyperArch.py", line 846, in add_article parentID=self.database.getOldestArticle(self.archive, File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/HyperDatabase.py", line 285, in getOldestArticle self.__openIndices(archive) File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/HyperDatabase.py", line 228, in __openIndices t=DumbBTree(os.path.join(arcdir, archive+'-'+i)) File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/HyperDatabase.py", line 56, in __init__ self.dict = marshal.load(open(path)) ValueError: bad marshal data Ricardo. -- International Janet Jackson fanclub called MISS JANET. For more information write to: Miss Janet. P.O.Box 10016, 1001 EA Amsterdam, The Netherlands Fax/phone: +31-(0)20-7764493 Email: fanclub@miss-janet.com Or check out our website: http://miss-janet.com From ricardo@miss-janet.com Fri May 21 13:05:31 1999 From: ricardo@miss-janet.com (Ricardo Kustner) Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 14:05:31 +0200 (MET DST) Subject: [Mailman-Developers] stalled connection: archive locks? Message-ID: Hi, well i've traced my problem back to the fact that the lock files in the archive directory are not being removed. they appear as: 1999-May-subject.lock..<#####> where <#####> is a number... does anybody have the same problems? i think this might be what causes the process-overload on our server, when an impatient moderator doesnt wait for the stalled page to completely finnish and approve several posts at once, all of them waiting for lock files to be released...? Ricardo. From jcrey@uma.es Fri May 21 13:57:39 1999 From: jcrey@uma.es (Juan Carlos Rey Anaya) Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 14:57:39 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] features suggestion: languages References: Message-ID: <37455843.64E39D22@uma.es> "Bognar, Attila" wrote: > > Hi all, > > I'm quite new to this list. > I faced a "problem": I run a maillists for Hungarian people and the > problem is that some of them don't speak english very much. So I > have/should change the English text to Hungarian. > > So what I suggest: > when creating a new list, there could be a question, which asks what > language the list should be. > The datas of languages could be taken for example from > ~mailman/templates/hungarian/ > Well, we (Victoriano Giralt and I) have the same trouble and we're thinking on modifying mailman to support different languages. We see the multilingual issue as a three pronged one: - The mail messages sent by the MLM to the users. - The apparence of web pages. - And the commands used to control the MLM via e-mail. At first, we should tack the two fist ones. The last one is not a big issue thanks to the amazing web user interface :) ;) Our approach to the problem would be as follows: - The system should have a default system language, defined at install time, which will be used for everything unbound to any list. - The system will have a set of supported languages, that can be selected as list default language (list creation) or by users for interfacing to system areas not related to a list. - A list can support a subset of languages of server, one of them being the list default language, that will be used for users that don't select a language and and for any list general messages, like the signature appended to list messages. - The user selected language will be used for the web interface and for personal messages, like password reminders. - The templates will be customisable like they are now, but on different languages. - List info webpage could be shown in any language supported by the list. - System logs will be in English. System manager should know what they are doing :) This ends the philosophical part. Now the hard implementation issues :) Directory $prefix/templates would include different directories, each dedicated to a diferent language, from which the selected new list languages, would be copied. So, this structure would be replicated for every list, but only for the list supported languages. templates/es/ spanish de/ german bu/ bulgarian it/ italian, etc The system messages would use a similar directory structure. A new directory, called $prefix/messages, would be created, to hold the supported languages. This directory would hold a module per supported language, named 'language'.py, i.e.: es.py, de.py, bu.py, etc Each file could have entries like: --- BEGIN es.py --- ErrorInvalidPasswd = 'Error: clave incorrecta' ListNotFound = 'la lista no se encuentra: %s' DEFAULT_MSG_FOOTER = """_______________________________________________ lista de distribucion %(real_name)s - %(real_name)s@%(host_name)s %(web_page_url)slistinfo/%(_internal_name)s """ --- END es.py --- And to use it: It should be at the beggining of a program that wants to use it, like: import MsgLang -- or whichever name it should have Msg = MsgLang.MsgLang() -- We are going send messages in the server default language Msg = MsgLang.MsgLang('es') -- We are going to send spanish messages print Msg.msg('ErrorInvalidPasswd') returns 'Error: Invalid Password"' print Msg.msg('ListNotFound') % 'List' should return 'la lista no se encuentra: List' VBLE = {'web_page_url' : 'http://www.uma.es/', 'real_name' : 'Lista', 'host_name' : 'uma.es', '_internal_name' : 'XXXX'} print Msg.msg('DEFAULT_MSG_FOOTER') % VBLE should return '_______________________________________________ lista de distribucion Lista - Lista@uma.es http://www.uma.es/listinfo/XXXX' We have a little problem, one of us is new to Python, but we won't reveal who :) Of course this is open to discussion on this list. -- ___ / F \ [[[]]]] ( O O ) #----------------0000--(_)--0000---------------# | Juan Carlos Rey Anaya (jcrey@uma.es) | | Servicio Central de informática | | Universidad de Málaga - España | #----------------------------------------------# # Solo se que cada vez se menos :-| # #----------------------------------------------# From dan@feld.cvut.cz Fri May 21 14:23:14 1999 From: dan@feld.cvut.cz (Dan Ohnesorg) Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 15:23:14 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [Mailman-Developers] features suggestion: languages In-Reply-To: <37455843.64E39D22@uma.es> Message-ID: On Fri, 21 May 1999, Juan Carlos Rey Anaya wrote: I am also to interested in localization, my domain is Czech language. > We see the multilingual issue as a three pronged one: > - The mail messages sent by the MLM to the users. It is generealy not problem, becouse mailman is transparent for MIME encodings (We have 15 charactes in ISO-8859-2 character set). > - The apparence of web pages. It can be modified by exchanging templates in directories. I have made it and it works fine, the only problem is, that for example labels on buttons are hard genertated from source code. > - And the commands used to control the MLM via e-mail. > Here should by done some work, if I will send czech message, i need modify headers from e-mail. Mailman generates only US-ASCII headers and by templetas I can modify only body of message. Command should not be translated. Only, and it is not localization subject, I am modifiing every version to recognize more command as aliases, like sub, subscribe, add... > This ends the philosophical part. Now the hard implementation issues :) > > Directory $prefix/templates would include different directories, each > dedicated to a diferent language, from which the selected new list > languages, would be copied. So, this structure would be replicated for > every list, but only for the list supported languages. > > templates/es/ spanish > de/ german > bu/ bulgarian > it/ italian, etc Yes, it can be done like this. > > The system messages would use a similar directory structure. A new > directory, called $prefix/messages, would be created, to hold the > supported languages. Yes and the messages should contains not only body, but also headers from mail. > This directory would hold a module per supported language, named > 'language'.py, Please check gettext package, which is also suported by python. It is my preffered way to internationalize aplications. I think, we can include templates directory in 1.0, to help other with translation, f.e. in contib directory, it will not automaticaly install, but it can be manually placed instead of english templates. cheers dan -- ________________________________________ DDDDDD DD DD Dan Ohnesorg, supervisor on POWER DD OOOO Dan@feld.cvut.cz DD OODDOO Dep. of Power Engineering DDDDDD OO CTU FEL Prague, Bohemia OO OO work: +420 2 24352785;+420 2 24972109 OOOO home: +420 311 679679;+420 311 679311 ________________________________________ Pesimista vidi v ementalskem syru jen ty diry. From brunomadv@ciudad.com.ar Fri May 21 14:41:13 1999 From: brunomadv@ciudad.com.ar (Bruno Mattarollo) Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 10:41:13 -0300 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] features suggestion: languages In-Reply-To: <37455843.64E39D22@uma.es> Message-ID: <001401bea38f$97ce40c0$6eba0ac8@kuarajy.infosys.com.ar> Hi! I am offering myself to help translate MailMan to spanish. Juan Carlos: si quieres, puedo ayudar, solo contactame via mail. Personally, I like the idea of having several language options at installation time and choosing one. Cheers, /B Bruno Mattarollo ... proud to be a PSA member > -----Original Message----- > From: mailman-developers-admin@python.org > [mailto:mailman-developers-admin@python.org]On Behalf Of Juan Carlos Rey > Anaya > Sent: Friday, May 21, 1999 9:58 AM > To: mailman-developers@python.org > Subject: Re: [Mailman-Developers] features suggestion: languages > > > "Bognar, Attila" wrote: > > > > Hi all, > > > > I'm quite new to this list. > > I faced a "problem": I run a maillists for Hungarian people and the > > problem is that some of them don't speak english very much. So I > > have/should change the English text to Hungarian. > > > > So what I suggest: > > when creating a new list, there could be a question, which asks what > > language the list should be. > > The datas of languages could be taken for example from > > ~mailman/templates/hungarian/ > > > > Well, we (Victoriano Giralt and I) have the same trouble and we're > thinking on modifying mailman to support different languages. > > We see the multilingual issue as a three pronged one: > - The mail messages sent by the MLM to the users. > - The apparence of web pages. > - And the commands used to control the MLM via e-mail. > > [...SNIP...] > > We have a little problem, one of us is new to Python, but we won't > reveal who :) > > Of course this is open to discussion on this list. > -- > > ___ > / F \ > [[[]]]] > ( O O ) > #----------------0000--(_)--0000---------------# > | Juan Carlos Rey Anaya (jcrey@uma.es) | > | Servicio Central de informática | > | Universidad de Málaga - España | > #----------------------------------------------# > # Solo se que cada vez se menos :-| # > #----------------------------------------------# > > _______________________________________________ > Mailman-Developers maillist - Mailman-Developers@python.org > http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers > From richarde@eskom.co.za Fri May 21 09:42:42 1999 From: richarde@eskom.co.za (Richard Ellerbrock) Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 10:42:42 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Error in Mailman Version: 1.0rc1 Message-ID: I continuously get the following error in my error log. Unfortunately I do not know what leads to the error. admin: [----- Mailman Version: 1.0rc1 -----] admin: [----- Traceback ------] admin: Traceback (innermost last): admin: File "/home/mailman/scripts/driver", line 112, in run_main admin: main() admin: File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/listinfo.py", line 40, in main admin: FormatListinfoOverview() admin: File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/listinfo.py", line 66, in FormatListinf oOverview admin: if port and http_host[-len(port)-1:] == ':'+port: admin: AttributeError: __getslice__ -- Richard Ellerbrock richarde@eskom.co.za From jerrya@fastrans.net Fri May 21 21:39:07 1999 From: jerrya@fastrans.net (Jerry Adlersfluegel) Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 15:39:07 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] another "mailman" product... Message-ID: <3745C46B.E9201DF8@fastrans.net> I was going through some stuff on freshmeat, and I found another program named "mailman." I don't know if this has been discussed here before, but I thought I should point it out. http://www.endymion.com/products/mailman/ -- Jerry A. From ricardo@miss-janet.com Fri May 21 23:41:44 1999 From: ricardo@miss-janet.com (Ricardo Kustner) Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 00:41:44 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [Mailman-Developers] RE: [Mailman-Users] stalled / locks?... corrupted database :( In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 18-May-99 Ricardo Kustner wrote: >> When I approve a post in the admindb interface (mailman rc1), the connection >> "stalls" for several seconds after the new page has been brought up... the >> weird thing is that the full html output has been displayed on the browser, >> but apperantly, the http connection isn't closed immediately after this... >> could this be a lock-file problem? > i reply to my own post... when i approve a post and do a ps -ax on the > server, i can see python hanging around as a "zombie" process during the > stall-time of a the approval submit... i feel really stupid for being the only one to reply to my *own* posts... (i guess nobody is taking me seriously??... :) ) anyway it looks like my archive database has become corrupted since no posts have been added since last sunday... which is quite possible since i had a some trouble with the server last weekend (which is more due to lack of system resources and my own fault sort of... my fastcgi scripts are not that reliable (yet) and sometimes tend to crash the server, especially if mailman/exmin are *very* busy with posting messages at the same time) so my question is: how can i fix the archive database? i guess i have to turn off archiving for now... Ricardo. -- From Harald.Meland@usit.uio.no Sat May 22 12:29:09 1999 From: Harald.Meland@usit.uio.no (Harald Meland) Date: 22 May 1999 13:29:09 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] getheader-setheader In-Reply-To: Bencsath Boldizsar's message of "Fri, 21 May 1999 02:55:51 +0200" References: <005b01bea324$b5468380$0301620a@elemer.datacontact.hu> Message-ID: [Bencsath Boldizsar] > The problem, if i use special characters in the subject, some of the words > appear two times in the subject ... Actually, it wasn't related to use of special characters, but to the fact that the resulting subject header spanned multiple line. This (just-checked-in) patch should fix this problem: Index: Mailman/Message.py =================================================================== RCS file: /export/public/cvsroot/mailman/Mailman/Message.py,v retrieving revision 1.20 retrieving revision 1.21 diff -u -r1.20 -r1.21 --- Message.py 1999/03/09 02:42:09 1.20 +++ Message.py 1999/05/22 06:05:48 1.21 @@ -22,13 +22,10 @@ import string import time -# get our hacked copy of Python 1.5.2's rfc822.py -import rfc822 -try: - rfc822.Message.getallrecipients -except AttributeError: - # the standard module doesn't have our enhancement - from Mailman.pythonlib import rfc822 +# Python 1.5's version of rfc822.py is buggy and lacks features we +# depend on -- so we always use the up-to-date version distributed +# with Mailman. +from Mailman.pythonlib import rfc822 # Utility functions 2 of these classes use: @@ -153,47 +150,11 @@ return real_name def SetHeader(self, name, value, crush_duplicates=1): - # Well, we crush dups in the dict no matter what... - # XXX Note that as of Python 1.5.2, rfc822 message objects support - # a .__setattr__() that does what we want, so eventually we'll - # want to switch to that instead of mucking w/the internal rep. - newheader = not self.dict.has_key(string.lower(name)) - self.dict[string.lower(name)] = value - if value[-1] <> '\n': - value = value + '\n' - - if not crush_duplicates or newheader: - self.headers.append('%s: %s' % (name, value)) - return + if crush_duplicates: + self[name] = value else: - for i in range(len(self.headers)): - if (string.lower(self.headers[i][:len(name)+1]) == - string.lower(name) + ':'): - self.headers[i] = '%s: %s' % (name, value) - - # XXX Eventually (1.5.1?) Python rfc822.Message() will have its own - # __delitem__. - def __delitem__(self, name): - """Delete all occurrences of a specific header, if it is present.""" - name = string.lower(name) - if not self.dict.has_key(name): - return - del self.dict[name] - name = name + ':' - n = len(name) - list = [] - hit = 0 - for i in range(len(self.headers)): - line = self.headers[i] - if string.lower(line[:n]) == name: - hit = 1 - elif line[:1] not in string.whitespace: - hit = 0 - if hit: - list.append(i) - list.reverse() - for i in list: - del self.headers[i] + # Only bother with the dict + self.dict[string.lower(name)] = value # This is a simplistic class. It could do multi-line headers etc... # But it doesn't because I don't need that for this app. Thanks a lot for the bug report, -- Harald From Harald.Meland@usit.uio.no Sat May 22 14:43:59 1999 From: Harald.Meland@usit.uio.no (Harald Meland) Date: 22 May 1999 15:43:59 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] found a bug? "ValueError: bad marshal data" In-Reply-To: "Ricardo - Miss Janet. Fanclub"'s message of "Fri, 21 May 1999 08:21:23 +0200 (CEST)" References: Message-ID: [Ricardo - Miss Janet. Fanclub] > Hi, > > like i mentioned earlier, when i approve a post with admindb, the webbrowser > stalls for several seconds before closing the connection... well i just found > out that it generates an error in my apache logs (See below) > is this a bug? or does this mean one of the databases is corrupted? Looks like one of your pipermail archive databases (located under ~mailman/archive/private/LISTNAME/database/) is corrupt. Sorry to say, I don't know very much about these database files -- but, if you have a plain mbox archive of the list as well (located in ~mailman/archives/private/LISTNAME.mbox/LISTNAME.mbox), I guess the entire pipermail web archive can be regenerated from there. To regenerate, do rm -r ~mailman/archives/LISTNAME/ ~mailman/bin/arch LISTNAME ~mailman/archives/private/LISTNAME.mbox/LISTNAME.mbox (but make sure you have all the needed articles in the mbox archive first). > ps: don't you all agree mailman needs more publicity? Well, if it's _good_ publicity, then yes, of course :) > did rc1 get posted on freshmeat and stuff? Just checked, and yes, it seems like Barry did so. -- Harald From Harald.Meland@usit.uio.no Sat May 22 14:51:25 1999 From: Harald.Meland@usit.uio.no (Harald Meland) Date: 22 May 1999 15:51:25 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] stalled connection: archive locks? In-Reply-To: Ricardo Kustner's message of "Fri, 21 May 1999 14:05:31 +0200 (MET DST)" References: Message-ID: [Ricardo Kustner] > Hi, > > well i've traced my problem back to the fact that the > lock files in the archive directory are not being removed. > > they appear as: > 1999-May-subject.lock..<#####> > > where <#####> is a number... The number is the process ID (pid) of the locking process. If you do a "ps auxww | grep #####" (substituting "#####" with a number from a lock file), does any Mailman processes show up? > does anybody have the same problems? > > i think this might be what causes the process-overload on our server, when > an impatient moderator doesnt wait for the stalled page to completely finnish > and approve several posts at once, all of them waiting for lock files to be > released...? I'll look into it -- this may be related to a problem J C Lawrence has reported (with subject "Performance under load (bursty message flow)"). -- Harald From Harald.Meland@usit.uio.no Sat May 22 15:09:47 1999 From: Harald.Meland@usit.uio.no (Harald Meland) Date: 22 May 1999 16:09:47 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Error in Mailman Version: 1.0rc1 In-Reply-To: Richard Ellerbrock's message of "Fri, 21 May 1999 10:42:42 +0200" References: Message-ID: [Richard Ellerbrock] > I continuously get the following error in my error > log. Unfortunately I do not know what leads to the error. > > > admin: [----- Mailman Version: 1.0rc1 -----] > admin: [----- Traceback ------] > admin: Traceback (innermost last): > admin: File "/home/mailman/scripts/driver", line 112, in run_main > admin: main() > admin: File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/listinfo.py", line 40, in main > admin: FormatListinfoOverview() > admin: File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/listinfo.py", line 66, in FormatListinf > oOverview > admin: if port and http_host[-len(port)-1:] == ':'+port: > admin: AttributeError: __getslice__ Apparently your web server isn't defining the HTTP_HOST environment variable when running CGI scripts. The CGI/1.1 spec says that SERVER_NAME should hold The server's hostname, DNS alias, or IP address as it would appear in self-referencing URLs" (but doesn't mention HTTP_HOST...), so with the below (just-checked-in) patch Mailman falls back on SERVER_NAME when HTTP_HOST is unset: Index: listinfo.py =================================================================== RCS file: /export/public/cvsroot/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/listinfo.py,v retrieving revision 1.10 retrieving revision 1.11 diff -u -r1.10 -r1.11 --- listinfo.py 1999/05/02 22:57:45 1.10 +++ listinfo.py 1999/05/22 10:06:09 1.11 @@ -60,7 +60,8 @@ # XXX We need a portable way to determine the host by which we are being # visited! An absolute URL would do... - http_host = os.environ.get('HTTP_HOST') + http_host = os.environ.get('HTTP_HOST') or\ + os.environ.get('SERVER_NAME') port = os.environ.get('SERVER_PORT') # strip off the port if there is one if port and http_host[-len(port)-1:] == ':'+port: Thanks for the bug report, -- Harald From Harald.Meland@usit.uio.no Sat May 22 15:18:57 1999 From: Harald.Meland@usit.uio.no (Harald Meland) Date: 22 May 1999 16:18:57 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] another "mailman" product... In-Reply-To: Jerry Adlersfluegel's message of "Fri, 21 May 1999 15:39:07 -0500" References: <3745C46B.E9201DF8@fastrans.net> Message-ID: [Jerry Adlersfluegel] > I was going through some stuff on freshmeat, and I found another > program named "mailman." I don't know if this has been discussed > here before, but I thought I should point it out. > > http://www.endymion.com/products/mailman/ It's been brought up before, and each time the conclusion has been that since the functionality provided by these two software packages differs quite a bit, there a) hopefully won't be too much confusion and b) is no reason to fear lawsuits over the name. And, they apparently camelcase their name (MailMan) while we capitalize ours (Mailman) ;) -- Harald From M.Finselbach@gmx.de Sat May 22 16:56:33 1999 From: M.Finselbach@gmx.de (Michael Finselbach) Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 17:56:33 +0200 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Re: [Mailman-Users] stalled / locks?... corrupted database :( References: Message-ID: <3746D3B1.BC755EE3@gmx.de> Ricardo Kustner wrote: > > On 18-May-99 Ricardo Kustner wrote: > >> When I approve a post in the admindb interface (mailman rc1), the connection > >> "stalls" for several seconds after the new page has been brought up... the > >> weird thing is that the full html output has been displayed on the browser, > >> but apperantly, the http connection isn't closed immediately after this... > >> could this be a lock-file problem? > > i reply to my own post... when i approve a post and do a ps -ax on the > > server, i can see python hanging around as a "zombie" process during the > > stall-time of a the approval submit... > > i feel really stupid for being the only one to reply to my *own* posts... > (i guess nobody is taking me seriously??... :) ) Well, of course "we" all do ... I seem to have a similar problem -I mean, being the only one responding to my own mails. In contrast to you, I didn't find an answer - so I take the liberty to repost my original question: After having been asked to approve a mail send to a list, I go to the proposed webpage, enter my admin-pwd, klick on the approve button, submit the page - to no effect. The mail this lingers around, waiting to be approved. I am being asked for my pwd again, and could move around in that circle endlessly... If I ask my colleage (and webmaster, hence supposedly working with other rigths) it works. What am i missing ? (i will write again as I, as soon as my "approve" rights have grown accordingly :-)) -- mit freundlichen Gruessen Michael Finselbach ------------------------- HeLP PI Frankfurt Gutleutstr. 8 -12 60329 Frankfurt/M Tel: 069 / 2568 - 336 Fax: 069 / 2568 - 320 Pri: 06074 / 61419 From ricardo@miss-janet.com Sat May 22 20:25:36 1999 From: ricardo@miss-janet.com (Ricardo Kustner) Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 21:25:36 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [Mailman-Developers] stalled connection: archive locks? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi, On 22-May-99 Harald Meland wrote: > The number is the process ID (pid) of the locking process. If you do > a "ps auxww | grep #####" (substituting "#####" with a number from a > lock file), does any Mailman processes show up? i tried once to look for that pid but i couldn't find it in ps... i'll try it again. > Looks like one of your pipermail archive databases (located under > ~mailman/archive/private/LISTNAME/database/) is corrupt. > Sorry to say, I don't know very much about these database files -- > but, if you have a plain mbox archive of the list as well (located in > ~mailman/archives/private/LISTNAME.mbox/LISTNAME.mbox), I guess the thanks for the help... i've re-archived the mailinglist mbox, but now i'm getting errors in other places... to be honest, my mailman setup is a bit messy because i had to hurry with switching from majordomo and the permission problems were taking too much time.... it's really confusing that several different uid's on the server use the system (apache, exim and mailman through cron)... maybe i need to start cleaning it up ... if only there was some information somewhere on what exactly needs to be the permission settings for every directory/file (most of my directories are SGID)... i'd give my right arm for a check_permissions.sh script ;) > > ps: don't you all agree mailman needs more publicity? > Well, if it's _good_ publicity, then yes, of course :) at first i subscribed to the digest of mailman-users cause i was afraid i would get too much email...but it's nothing i can't handle... Ricardo. -- From dan@feld.cvut.cz Sat May 22 20:45:23 1999 From: dan@feld.cvut.cz (Dan Ohnesorg) Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 21:45:23 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [Mailman-Developers] another "mailman" product... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 22 May 1999, Harald Meland wrote: > [Jerry Adlersfluegel] > > > I was going through some stuff on freshmeat, and I found another > > program named "mailman." I don't know if this has been discussed > > here before, but I thought I should point it out. > > > > http://www.endymion.com/products/mailman/ > > It's been brought up before, and each time the conclusion has been > that since the functionality provided by these two software packages > differs quite a bit, there a) hopefully won't be too much confusion > and b) is no reason to fear lawsuits over the name. > > And, they apparently camelcase their name (MailMan) while we > capitalize ours (Mailman) ;) In the Czech republic is site (http://www.pandora.cz) which is runnig listserv called mailman and the autor have never heard about "our" mailman. But theyr mailman is not free software and it is not avalaible for any other. So it is not confusion. You cannot make some name unavalaible for other as long is the name widely known, as Linux or so. cheers dan -- ________________________________________ DDDDDD DD DD Dan Ohnesorg, supervisor on POWER DD OOOO Dan@feld.cvut.cz DD OODDOO Dep. of Power Engineering DDDDDD OO CTU FEL Prague, Bohemia OO OO work: +420 2 24352785;+420 2 24972109 OOOO home: +420 311 679679;+420 311 679311 ________________________________________ Uz je to tak. Nekteri lide se uzaviraji do sve veze z voloviny. From ricardo@miss-janet.com Sat May 22 23:02:28 1999 From: ricardo@miss-janet.com (Ricardo Kustner) Date: Sun, 23 May 1999 00:02:28 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [Mailman-Developers] stalled connections / locks continued In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi, First of all the connection stalls (i see a zombie python hanging around then btw) *after* an approved post has been submitted *and* the next page has been completely build on the screen (accept for the fact that the browser is still expecting data)... when i look at the source of ~mailman/Mailman/Cgi/admindb.py i see this : PrintRequests(doc) text = doc.Format(bgcolor="#ffffff") print text sys.stdout.flush() finally: list.Unlock() so print text seems to be ok... so it either hangs in the flush() or maybe the unlock fails? any hints on debugging this thing? Thanks, Ricardo. -- From lindsey@ncsa.uiuc.edu Mon May 24 02:49:23 1999 From: lindsey@ncsa.uiuc.edu (Christopher Lindsey) Date: Sun, 23 May 1999 20:49:23 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Re: [Mailman-Users] stalled / locks?... corrupted database :( In-Reply-To: <3746D3B1.BC755EE3@gmx.de> from "Michael Finselbach" at May 22, 99 05:56:33 pm Message-ID: <199905240149.UAA03598@ferret.ncsa.uiuc.edu> > After having been asked to approve a mail send to a list, I go to the > proposed webpage, enter my admin-pwd, klick on the approve button, submit the > page - to no effect. > The mail this lingers around, waiting to be approved. I am being asked for > my pwd again, and could move around in that circle endlessly... > If I ask my colleage (and webmaster, hence supposedly working with other rigths) > it works. > > What am i missing ? (i will write again as I, as soon as my "approve" rights have > grown accordingly :-)) Do you allow cookies to your browser? If you don't, it will keep prompting you for a password and never let you in. Chris From ricardo@miss-janet.com Wed May 26 21:37:40 1999 From: ricardo@miss-janet.com (Ricardo Kustner) Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 22:37:40 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [Mailman-Developers] stalled connection: archive locks? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi, On 22-May-99 Harald Meland wrote: >> i think this might be what causes the process-overload on our server, when >> an impatient moderator doesnt wait for the stalled page to completely >> finnish >> and approve several posts at once, all of them waiting for lock files to be >> released...? > I'll look into it -- this may be related to a problem J C Lawrence has > reported (with subject "Performance under load (bursty message > flow)"). I guess so -- it happened again this morning when a moderator was approving some posts, the server go a unbelievable high load: it took me about 30 minutes to get into a telnet session and issue a shutdown :( Everytime a post is approved, the connection stalls exactly 15 seconds (which happens to be exactly the timeout of the lockfiles in mailman)... usually when i had to do a shutdown, i have to replace ~mailman/lists/list-name/config.db with config.db.latest because it has become corrupted ("no such list") anyway, the server also handles mail and is supposed to be up 24h a day and i hope i can fix this soon cause this is getting unworkable :(... and this way i never get a cool uptime :) ps: sorry for cross-posting in mailman-users and develop ... Ricardo. -- From bwarsaw@cnri.reston.va.us (Barry A. Warsaw) Thu May 27 16:04:11 1999 From: bwarsaw@cnri.reston.va.us (Barry A. Warsaw) (Barry A. Warsaw) Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 11:04:11 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Performance under load (bursty message flow) References: Message-ID: <14157.24299.775547.44192@anthem.cnri.reston.va.us> >>>>> "JCL" == J C Lawrence writes: JCL> In running a number of lists at VA under mailman, I've JCL> noticed an apparent performance problem: multiple JCL> simultaneous deliveries to the same list performs badly. JCL> Locking? JC, I am now starting to see the same behavior on python.org. My machine is slammed at 100% cpu almost continuously doing about the same thing you're seeing. I'd classify this as a problem that requires a solution before 1.0 can go out. I have no idea what's going on, or how to fix it, and as I mentioned before I don't have the time right now to look into it. But I just wanted to say that it's a problem I have a vested interest in fixing (although I'd be pleased as punch if someone else works on it in the meantime :). -Barry From ricardo@miss-janet.com Sat May 29 09:25:28 1999 From: ricardo@miss-janet.com (Ricardo Kustner) Date: Sat, 29 May 1999 10:25:28 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [Mailman-Developers] RE: [Mailman-Users] Re: [Mailman-Developers] stalled connection: In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi, On 26-May-99 Ricardo Kustner wrote: >> I'll look into it -- this may be related to a problem J C Lawrence has >> reported (with subject "Performance under load (bursty message >> flow)"). > I guess so -- it happened again this morning when a moderator was approving > some > posts, the server go a unbelievable high load: it took me about 30 minutes to well... i just disabled mail archiving and now the stalled connection dropped back from 15 seconds to about 4... seems an improvement, but it still doesnt look right and i still have a "" python process flying around during these few seconds... i wish mailman had some debug flag so I could see at what point it is "stalling"... Ricardo. --