From klm@python.org Sun Nov 1 16:55:24 1998 From: klm@python.org (Ken Manheimer) Date: Sun, 1 Nov 1998 11:55:24 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Mailman-Developers] looking for stats Message-ID: <13884.36622.766284.594232@glyph.cnri.reston.va.us> Hi, all. I'm going to be presenting a paper on mailman at the python conference in a couple of weeks, and i'd like to be able to answer the inevitable questions along the lines of, "how big a list is being run with mailman?" So i'd like to hear from you if you think you have some really big lists, or an otherwise interesting situation where you're using mailman. (I just ran the mailpasswds script by hand, with some gratuitous printing to see how many distinct subscribers, and we have around 2000 valid, distinct recipients, distributed over 33 lists. The largest individual list is probably jpython-interest, with around 450 members. Hmm - on a sparc 5 running solaris, the passwords job took around 1 hour to run - with 15 seconds total for doing the consolidation of all subscriptions for each address, the rest for sending out the notices.) Ken From John@list.org Mon Nov 2 00:38:56 1998 From: John@list.org (John Viega) Date: Sun, 1 Nov 1998 16:38:56 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] looking for stats In-Reply-To: <13884.36622.766284.594232@glyph.cnri.reston.va.us>; from Ken Manheimer on Sun, Nov 01, 1998 at 11:55:24AM -0500 References: <13884.36622.766284.594232@glyph.cnri.reston.va.us> Message-ID: <19981101163856.A2561@viega.org> Depending on the time of year, the Dave Matthews Band mailing list has anywhere from 1500 to 3000 subscribers, where generally 2/3 are digested and 1/3 get every message. I would say there are also a good 80 messages a day year round. I know of a couple of low traffic announcement lists with up to 6K people, but that's not a heavy traffic load. John On Sun, Nov 01, 1998 at 11:55:24AM -0500, Ken Manheimer wrote: > Hi, all. I'm going to be presenting a paper on mailman at the python > conference in a couple of weeks, and i'd like to be able to answer the > inevitable questions along the lines of, "how big a list is being run > with mailman?" So i'd like to hear from you if you think you have > some really big lists, or an otherwise interesting situation where > you're using mailman. From dragondm@delta.integral.org Mon Nov 2 12:56:41 1998 From: dragondm@delta.integral.org (The Dragon De Monsyne) Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 06:56:41 -0600 (CST) Subject: [Mailman-Developers] looking for stats In-Reply-To: <13884.36622.766284.594232@glyph.cnri.reston.va.us> Message-ID: On Sun, 1 Nov 1998, Ken Manheimer wrote: > Hi, all. I'm going to be presenting a paper on mailman at the python > conference in a couple of weeks, and i'd like to be able to answer the > inevitable questions along the lines of, "how big a list is being run > with mailman?" So i'd like to hear from you if you think you have > some really big lists, or an otherwise interesting situation where > you're using mailman. Ok, I did a rough check, and lists.integral.org has approx 1000 distinct addresses distributed over 6 lists, with the largest being a net-fiction list with 660 subscribers. That list receives 20-45 posts per day. Also, since it is a story list, most of the posts are stories avg'g 20 - 40KB. Our most impressive stat is our web-archives, since the back archives of two long running lists were added into the mailman archives when the lists were converted to mailman. The web-archives contain a total of 300MB, consisting of 36,000 messages. -The Dragon De Monsyne From klm@python.org Sat Nov 7 17:13:19 1998 From: klm@python.org (Ken Manheimer) Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 12:13:19 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Mailman-Developers] mailman's own archives In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 7 Nov 1998, Darren Henderson wrote: > Mailman's archives at python.org appear to have stopped on 11/2. Something > to do with the switch to the new version? Yes! I installed to a different location, and once i was satisfied it was working i decoupled the dynamic stuff (list dbs, archives, locks, etc) - neglecting to consider that the external pipermail archiver we're still using was still looking at the old place. For now i'm using a symlink to keep the external pipermail happy - if i'm right, the archives should catch up the next time the job is run. (When i return from the conference i'll use whatever mechanisms we have - or will have, i'm not sure myself - for processing accumulations in preexisting mbox files. Since scott and john will be around during the conference, one of them will probably speak to these issues...) Ken From klm@python.org Sat Nov 7 17:25:21 1998 From: klm@python.org (Ken Manheimer) Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 12:25:21 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Mailman-Developers] mailman's own archives In-Reply-To: <19981107021433.39368@chronis.icgroup.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 7 Nov 1998, Scott wrote: > Dont think those guys have upgraded their site yet. I doubt we'll see > them updated till the weekend's over, though. (Sorta in between - the bottom of the pages say 1.0b6, 'cause someone incremented the version number between releases, but it's before all the archiving stuff got worked out, so i have the internal pipermail archiving off.) (Ken) From jeff@ollie.clive.ia.us Sat Nov 7 17:38:29 1998 From: jeff@ollie.clive.ia.us (Jeffrey C. Ollie) Date: Sat, 07 Nov 1998 11:38:29 -0600 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] CVS Problem? Message-ID: <36448595.C44851A8@ollie.clive.ia.us> This is a cryptographically signed message in MIME format. --------------msAED0B3B2E73CFE6886B29376 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hmmm... while trying to do a "cvs update" I ran into the following problem. This error occurs even if I start fresh. max $ date Sat Nov 7 11:32:14 CST 1998 max $ cvs --version Concurrent Versions System (CVS) 1.10.3 (client/server) [...] max $ cvs -z6 update -d -P [...] cvs server: Updating doc cvs server: Updating doc/IPC7 cvs server: failed to create lock directory in repository `/projects/cvsroot/mailman/doc/IPC7': Permission denied cvs server: failed to obtain dir lock in repository `/projects/cvsroot/mailman/doc/IPC7' cvs [server aborted]: read lock failed - giving up --------------msAED0B3B2E73CFE6886B29376 Content-Type: application/x-pkcs7-signature; name="smime.p7s" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="smime.p7s" Content-Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature MIIJ6AYJKoZIhvcNAQcCoIIJ2TCCCdUCAQExCzAJBgUrDgMCGgUAMAsGCSqGSIb3DQEHAaCC B3QwggQ+MIIDp6ADAgECAhAH45KMD5ppjHBDd8plU0arMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBBAUAMIHMMRcw FQYDVQQKEw5WZXJpU2lnbiwgSW5jLjEfMB0GA1UECxMWVmVyaVNpZ24gVHJ1c3QgTmV0d29y azFGMEQGA1UECxM9d3d3LnZlcmlzaWduLmNvbS9yZXBvc2l0b3J5L1JQQSBJbmNvcnAuIEJ5 IFJlZi4sTElBQi5MVEQoYyk5ODFIMEYGA1UEAxM/VmVyaVNpZ24gQ2xhc3MgMSBDQSBJbmRp dmlkdWFsIFN1YnNjcmliZXItUGVyc29uYSBOb3QgVmFsaWRhdGVkMB4XDTk4MTAwMjAwMDAw MFoXDTk5MTAwMjIzNTk1OVowggEWMRcwFQYDVQQKEw5WZXJpU2lnbiwgSW5jLjEfMB0GA1UE CxMWVmVyaVNpZ24gVHJ1c3QgTmV0d29yazFGMEQGA1UECxM9d3d3LnZlcmlzaWduLmNvbS9y ZXBvc2l0b3J5L1JQQSBJbmNvcnAuIGJ5IFJlZi4sTElBQi5MVEQoYyk5ODEeMBwGA1UECxMV UGVyc29uYSBOb3QgVmFsaWRhdGVkMTMwMQYDVQQLEypEaWdpdGFsIElEIENsYXNzIDEgLSBO ZXRzY2FwZSBGdWxsIFNlcnZpY2UxFjAUBgNVBAMUDUplZmZyZXkgT2xsaWUxJTAjBgkqhkiG 9w0BCQEWFmplZmZAb2xsaWUuY2xpdmUuaWEudXMwgZ8wDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEBBQADgY0AMIGJ AoGBALznR/JfeMFeOL38y5n0N48TKu+pvfHuCa4mNMTl0/Im7S+rqGMc33+8SkjTUAik31nq iCNV2rSkcoegAkl3Ap0R5vEavmBA+v3PKKoDtl4jlhItCUlFxYqTMZ/sv43NbJ7O8EzJNs4s gcG4uqMqLcY4ASjpIdDk+Uy75j7kW+VHAgMBAAGjgdMwgdAwCQYDVR0TBAIwADCBrwYDVR0g BIGnMIAwgAYLYIZIAYb4RQEHAQEwgDAoBggrBgEFBQcCARYcaHR0cHM6Ly93d3cudmVyaXNp Z24uY29tL0NQUzBiBggrBgEFBQcCAjBWMBUWDlZlcmlTaWduLCBJbmMuMAMCAQEaPVZlcmlT aWduJ3MgQ1BTIGluY29ycC4gYnkgcmVmZXJlbmNlIGxpYWIuIGx0ZC4gKGMpOTcgVmVyaVNp Z24AAAAAAAAwEQYJYIZIAYb4QgEBBAQDAgeAMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBBAUAA4GBAEPk6HE6JHjs dKTRSz5YCSD5mj1zzeTo0MMWPB17NuUvssI6iCndVzzVxgwfsRGymWjTv6wijb0NlZ4HpkKW WY5v34W3775MLT+dO5N854iJJ6l5Ym2RVUPkkwGyCKElMoO6ds67fTIj/2u2ZjURZtzxoMwb ZFA+s6XT1rNEcZRsMIIDLjCCApegAwIBAgIRANJ2Lo0UDD19sqglXa/uDXUwDQYJKoZIhvcN AQECBQAwXzELMAkGA1UEBhMCVVMxFzAVBgNVBAoTDlZlcmlTaWduLCBJbmMuMTcwNQYDVQQL Ey5DbGFzcyAxIFB1YmxpYyBQcmltYXJ5IENlcnRpZmljYXRpb24gQXV0aG9yaXR5MB4XDTk4 MDUxMjAwMDAwMFoXDTA4MDUxMjIzNTk1OVowgcwxFzAVBgNVBAoTDlZlcmlTaWduLCBJbmMu MR8wHQYDVQQLExZWZXJpU2lnbiBUcnVzdCBOZXR3b3JrMUYwRAYDVQQLEz13d3cudmVyaXNp Z24uY29tL3JlcG9zaXRvcnkvUlBBIEluY29ycC4gQnkgUmVmLixMSUFCLkxURChjKTk4MUgw RgYDVQQDEz9WZXJpU2lnbiBDbGFzcyAxIENBIEluZGl2aWR1YWwgU3Vic2NyaWJlci1QZXJz b25hIE5vdCBWYWxpZGF0ZWQwgZ8wDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEBBQADgY0AMIGJAoGBALtaRIoEFrtV /QN6ii2UTxV4NrgNSrJvnFS/vOh3Kp258Gi7ldkxQXB6gUu5SBNWLccI4YRCq8CikqtEXKpC 8IIOAukv+8I7u77JJwpdtrA2QjO1blSIT4dKvxna+RXoD4e2HOPMxpqOf2okkuP84GW6p7F+ 78nbN2rISsgJBuSZAgMBAAGjfDB6MBEGCWCGSAGG+EIBAQQEAwIBBjBHBgNVHSAEQDA+MDwG C2CGSAGG+EUBBwEBMC0wKwYIKwYBBQUHAgEWH3d3dy52ZXJpc2lnbi5jb20vcmVwb3NpdG9y eS9SUEEwDwYDVR0TBAgwBgEB/wIBADALBgNVHQ8EBAMCAQYwDQYJKoZIhvcNAQECBQADgYEA iLg3O93alDcAraqf4YEBcR6Sam0v9vGd08pkONwbmAwHhluFFWoPuUmFpJXxF31ntH8tLN2a Qp7DPrSOquULBt7yVir6M8e+GddTTMO9yOMXtaRJQmPswqYXD11YGkk8kFxVo2UgAP0YIOVf gqaxqJLFWGrBjQM868PNBaKQrm4xggI8MIICOAIBATCB4TCBzDEXMBUGA1UEChMOVmVyaVNp Z24sIEluYy4xHzAdBgNVBAsTFlZlcmlTaWduIFRydXN0IE5ldHdvcmsxRjBEBgNVBAsTPXd3 dy52ZXJpc2lnbi5jb20vcmVwb3NpdG9yeS9SUEEgSW5jb3JwLiBCeSBSZWYuLExJQUIuTFRE KGMpOTgxSDBGBgNVBAMTP1ZlcmlTaWduIENsYXNzIDEgQ0EgSW5kaXZpZHVhbCBTdWJzY3Jp YmVyLVBlcnNvbmEgTm90IFZhbGlkYXRlZAIQB+OSjA+aaYxwQ3fKZVNGqzAJBgUrDgMCGgUA oIGxMBgGCSqGSIb3DQEJAzELBgkqhkiG9w0BBwEwHAYJKoZIhvcNAQkFMQ8XDTk4MTEwNzE3 MzgzMVowIwYJKoZIhvcNAQkEMRYEFFTWIBKsMfXtf4vZSF0Q5F0kT97bMFIGCSqGSIb3DQEJ DzFFMEMwCgYIKoZIhvcNAwcwDgYIKoZIhvcNAwICAgCAMAcGBSsOAwIHMA0GCCqGSIb3DQMC AgFAMA0GCCqGSIb3DQMCAgEoMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBAQUABIGAGlFO+IIYFoI4X36/m/KrDfKc 1NmE2bZ4ZXEpvOXjFJW/Z44Hym1QXzXS67j8fsNqJbuPyj91smzDWOphhLTEWHblfpH/6xv2 acraMDbXamWQ5IGiZsXg78UbRRu7rLY54lWpanpyHOdgsqtpEUi+WBwKRMciqrNf3+vNcWPD 6Jg= --------------msAED0B3B2E73CFE6886B29376-- From John@list.org Sat Nov 7 22:24:20 1998 From: John@list.org (John Viega) Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 14:24:20 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Mailman 1.0b6 Message-ID: <19981107142420.C25554@viega.org> Ok, 1.0b6 is finally done. I needed some info from Barry, and he sent it this morning, then I wasn't around until a little while ago. I'm going to hold off about a day on a more widespread announcement, just to make sure you guys don't find any big show-stoppers that we missed. You can get it off the home page (http://www.list.org), or at: ftp://list.org/pub/mailman/mailman-1.0b6.tar.gz New in b6: - Archiving is (finally) back in. - Administrivia filter added. - Mail queue mechanism revamped with better concurrency control. - For recipients that have estmp MTAs, set delivery notification status so that only delivery failure notices are sent out, inhibiting 4 hour and N day warning notices. - Now expire old unconfirmed subscription requests, rather than keeping them forever. - Added proposed standard List-Id: header, and our own X-MailmanVersion header. - Prevent havoc from attempts to subscribe a list to itself. (!) - Refine mail command processing to prevent loops. - Pending subscription DB redone with better locking and cleaner interface. - posters functionality expanded. - Subcsription policy more flexible, sensible, and site-configurable. - Various and sundry bug fixes. John From bwarsaw@cnri.reston.va.us (Barry A. Warsaw) Sat Nov 7 22:51:35 1998 From: bwarsaw@cnri.reston.va.us (Barry A. Warsaw) (Barry A. Warsaw) Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 17:51:35 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Mailman-Developers] CVS Problem? References: <36448595.C44851A8@ollie.clive.ia.us> Message-ID: <13892.52983.47756.611702@anthem.cnri.reston.va.us> >>>>> "JCO" == Jeffrey C Ollie writes: JCO> Hmmm... while trying to do a "cvs update" I ran into the JCO> following problem. This error occurs even if I start fresh. Try it now. From cklempay@acm.jhu.edu Sun Nov 8 02:18:47 1998 From: cklempay@acm.jhu.edu (Corbett J. Klempay) Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 21:18:47 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Mailman-Developers] b6 in and working...except archive access :( Message-ID: Hey all..I just got b6 in, and after some finangling with the cgi-gid (for some reason, I have to tell it the number 99 instead of the word nobody (a look in /etc/group confirms that nobody == 99)..not sure what the story is with that, but it works now, so I'm not too worried) Anyway, everything seems to be working fine...except accessing the archives. I was upgrading from b5, so I ran 'make update' and it converted everything all fine and dandy. When I try to link to a list's archives (public archives; don't have any private ones set up), I get Forbidden You don't have permission to access /pipermail/tm on this server. I was sure to add the ScriptAlias line to Apache's srm.conf file, so that's there. The permissions on the /home/mailman/archives/ dirs look like: [root@chimera archives]# ls -l total 2 drwxrws--x 10 root mailman 1024 Nov 7 20:06 private drwxrwsr-x 2 root mailman 1024 Nov 7 20:06 public [root@chimera archives]# Any ideas? Other than this, all seems kosher! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Corbett J. Klempay Quote of the Week: http://www2.acm.jhu.edu/~cklempay "Conscience is the inner voice that warns up that someone may be looking." PGP Fingerprint: 7DA2 DB6E 7F5E 8973 A8E7 347B 2429 7728 76C2 BEA1 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From scott@chronis.pobox.com Sun Nov 8 02:17:42 1998 From: scott@chronis.pobox.com (Scott) Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 21:17:42 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] b6 in and working...except archive access :( In-Reply-To: ; from Corbett J. Klempay on Sat, Nov 07, 1998 at 09:18:47PM -0500 References: Message-ID: <19981107211742.53664@chronis.icgroup.com> You probably need to set the option FollowSymlinks in the web server for the /home/mailman/archives/public dirctory. In apache, this look slike this: Alias /pipermail $prefix/archvies/public Options FollowSymLinks scott On Sat, Nov 07, 1998 at 09:18:47PM -0500, Corbett J. Klempay wrote: | Hey all..I just got b6 in, and after some finangling with the cgi-gid (for | some reason, I have to tell it the number 99 instead of the word | nobody (a look in /etc/group confirms that nobody == 99)..not sure what | the story is with that, but it works now, so I'm not too worried) | | Anyway, everything seems to be working fine...except accessing the | archives. I was upgrading from b5, so I ran 'make update' and it | converted everything all fine and dandy. When I try to link to a list's | archives (public archives; don't have any private ones set up), I get | | Forbidden | | You don't have permission to access /pipermail/tm on this server. | | I was sure to add the ScriptAlias line to Apache's srm.conf file, so | that's there. The permissions on the /home/mailman/archives/ dirs look | like: | | [root@chimera archives]# ls -l | total 2 | drwxrws--x 10 root mailman 1024 Nov 7 20:06 private | drwxrwsr-x 2 root mailman 1024 Nov 7 20:06 public | [root@chimera archives]# | | Any ideas? Other than this, all seems kosher! | | ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ | Corbett J. Klempay Quote of the Week: | http://www2.acm.jhu.edu/~cklempay "Conscience is the inner voice that | warns up that someone may be looking." | | PGP Fingerprint: 7DA2 DB6E 7F5E 8973 A8E7 347B 2429 7728 76C2 BEA1 | ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ | | | _______________________________________________ | Mailman-Developers maillist - Mailman-Developers@python.org | http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers | From cklempay@acm.jhu.edu Sun Nov 8 02:43:15 1998 From: cklempay@acm.jhu.edu (Corbett J. Klempay) Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 21:43:15 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Mailman-Developers] b6 in and working...except archive access :( In-Reply-To: <19981107211742.53664@chronis.icgroup.com> Message-ID: Huh. I added Alias /pipermail/ /home/mailman/archvies/public/ to the srm.conf file and then added # below added 11.07.98 by CJK for mailman 1.0b6 Options FollowSymLinks to access.conf and restarted httpd and got: Not Found The requested URL /pipermail/tm was not found on this server. Note: I noticed that both Alias /pipermail/ /home/mailman/archives/public/ and ScriptAlias /pipermail/ /home/mailman/archives/public/ are declared in srm.conf. Is that ok? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Corbett J. Klempay Quote of the Week: http://www2.acm.jhu.edu/~cklempay "Conscience is the inner voice that warns up that someone may be looking." PGP Fingerprint: 7DA2 DB6E 7F5E 8973 A8E7 347B 2429 7728 76C2 BEA1 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Sat, 7 Nov 1998, Scott wrote: > You probably need to set the option FollowSymlinks in the web server > for the /home/mailman/archives/public dirctory. In apache, this look > slike this: > > Alias /pipermail $prefix/archvies/public > > > Options FollowSymLinks > > > scott > > On Sat, Nov 07, 1998 at 09:18:47PM -0500, Corbett J. Klempay wrote: > | Hey all..I just got b6 in, and after some finangling with the cgi-gid (for > | some reason, I have to tell it the number 99 instead of the word > | nobody (a look in /etc/group confirms that nobody == 99)..not sure what > | the story is with that, but it works now, so I'm not too worried) > | > | Anyway, everything seems to be working fine...except accessing the > | archives. I was upgrading from b5, so I ran 'make update' and it > | converted everything all fine and dandy. When I try to link to a list's > | archives (public archives; don't have any private ones set up), I get > | > | Forbidden > | > | You don't have permission to access /pipermail/tm on this server. > | > | I was sure to add the ScriptAlias line to Apache's srm.conf file, so > | that's there. The permissions on the /home/mailman/archives/ dirs look > | like: > | > | [root@chimera archives]# ls -l > | total 2 > | drwxrws--x 10 root mailman 1024 Nov 7 20:06 private > | drwxrwsr-x 2 root mailman 1024 Nov 7 20:06 public > | [root@chimera archives]# > | > | Any ideas? Other than this, all seems kosher! > | > | ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > | Corbett J. Klempay Quote of the Week: > | http://www2.acm.jhu.edu/~cklempay "Conscience is the inner voice that > | warns up that someone may be looking." > | > | PGP Fingerprint: 7DA2 DB6E 7F5E 8973 A8E7 347B 2429 7728 76C2 BEA1 > | ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > | > | > | _______________________________________________ > | Mailman-Developers maillist - Mailman-Developers@python.org > | http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers > | > > _______________________________________________ > Mailman-Developers maillist - Mailman-Developers@python.org > http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers > From scott@chronis.pobox.com Sun Nov 8 02:41:46 1998 From: scott@chronis.pobox.com (Scott) Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 21:41:46 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] b6 in and working...except archive access :( In-Reply-To: ; from Corbett J. Klempay on Sat, Nov 07, 1998 at 09:43:15PM -0500 References: <19981107211742.53664@chronis.icgroup.com> Message-ID: <19981107214146.42432@chronis.icgroup.com> There should be no scriptalias for the public archives. that's probably the problem, though if it still doesn't work, could you send me a listing of /home/mailman/archives/public? scott On Sat, Nov 07, 1998 at 09:43:15PM -0500, Corbett J. Klempay wrote: | Huh. I added | | Alias /pipermail/ /home/mailman/archvies/public/ | | to the srm.conf file | | and then added | | # below added 11.07.98 by CJK for mailman 1.0b6 | | Options FollowSymLinks | | | to access.conf and restarted httpd and got: | | Not Found | | The requested URL /pipermail/tm was not found on this server. | | Note: I noticed that both | Alias /pipermail/ /home/mailman/archives/public/ | and | ScriptAlias /pipermail/ /home/mailman/archives/public/ | are declared in srm.conf. Is that ok? | | ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ | Corbett J. Klempay Quote of the Week: | http://www2.acm.jhu.edu/~cklempay "Conscience is the inner voice that | warns up that someone may be looking." | | PGP Fingerprint: 7DA2 DB6E 7F5E 8973 A8E7 347B 2429 7728 76C2 BEA1 | ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ | | On Sat, 7 Nov 1998, Scott wrote: | | > You probably need to set the option FollowSymlinks in the web server | > for the /home/mailman/archives/public dirctory. In apache, this look | > slike this: | > | > Alias /pipermail $prefix/archvies/public | > | > | > Options FollowSymLinks | > | > | > scott | > | > On Sat, Nov 07, 1998 at 09:18:47PM -0500, Corbett J. Klempay wrote: | > | Hey all..I just got b6 in, and after some finangling with the cgi-gid (for | > | some reason, I have to tell it the number 99 instead of the word | > | nobody (a look in /etc/group confirms that nobody == 99)..not sure what | > | the story is with that, but it works now, so I'm not too worried) | > | | > | Anyway, everything seems to be working fine...except accessing the | > | archives. I was upgrading from b5, so I ran 'make update' and it | > | converted everything all fine and dandy. When I try to link to a list's | > | archives (public archives; don't have any private ones set up), I get | > | | > | Forbidden | > | | > | You don't have permission to access /pipermail/tm on this server. | > | | > | I was sure to add the ScriptAlias line to Apache's srm.conf file, so | > | that's there. The permissions on the /home/mailman/archives/ dirs look | > | like: | > | | > | [root@chimera archives]# ls -l | > | total 2 | > | drwxrws--x 10 root mailman 1024 Nov 7 20:06 private | > | drwxrwsr-x 2 root mailman 1024 Nov 7 20:06 public | > | [root@chimera archives]# | > | | > | Any ideas? Other than this, all seems kosher! | > | | > | ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ | > | Corbett J. Klempay Quote of the Week: | > | http://www2.acm.jhu.edu/~cklempay "Conscience is the inner voice that | > | warns up that someone may be looking." | > | | > | PGP Fingerprint: 7DA2 DB6E 7F5E 8973 A8E7 347B 2429 7728 76C2 BEA1 | > | ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ | > | | > | | > | _______________________________________________ | > | Mailman-Developers maillist - Mailman-Developers@python.org | > | http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers | > | | > | > _______________________________________________ | > Mailman-Developers maillist - Mailman-Developers@python.org | > http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers | > | | | | | _______________________________________________ | Mailman-Developers maillist - Mailman-Developers@python.org | http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers | From gstein@lyra.org Sun Nov 8 04:08:46 1998 From: gstein@lyra.org (Greg Stein) Date: Sat, 07 Nov 1998 20:08:46 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] patch for virtual host lists Message-ID: <3645194E.1AAC28A7@lyra.org> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------44F33AF84B58B99E5A2BBBEB Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Here is a small patch for virtual-hosted lists. The original listinfo.py would correctly filter the visible lists for a virtual host, but the hostnames in the title and page contents were wrong. -g p.s. the patch is against 1.0b6 -- Greg Stein, http://www.lyra.org/ --------------44F33AF84B58B99E5A2BBBEB Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Received: from ns1.lyra.org (root@ns1.lyra.org [208.192.43.10]) by svpal.svpal.org (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id UAA05628 for ; Sat, 7 Nov 1998 20:01:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from cartman.lyra.org (cartman.lyra.org [208.192.43.15]) by ns1.lyra.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA31040 for ; Sat, 7 Nov 1998 20:06:52 -0800 Received: (from mailman@localhost) by cartman.lyra.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA05316 for gstein@lyra.org; Sat, 7 Nov 1998 20:06:32 -0800 Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 20:06:32 -0800 From: The Mailman Message-Id: <199811080406.UAA05316@cartman.lyra.org> *** listinfo.py-dist Sat Nov 7 20:03:01 1998 --- listinfo.py Sat Nov 7 20:05:31 1998 *************** *** 57,64 **** def FormatListinfoOverview(error=None): "Present a general welcome and itemize the (public) lists for this host." doc = Document() ! legend = "%s mailing lists" % mm_cfg.DEFAULT_HOST_NAME doc.SetTitle(legend) table = Table(border=0, width="100%") --- 57,76 ---- def FormatListinfoOverview(error=None): "Present a general welcome and itemize the (public) lists for this host." + + # XXX We need a portable way to determine the host by which we are being + # visited! An absolute URL would do... + if os.environ.has_key('HTTP_HOST'): + http_host = os.environ['HTTP_HOST'] + else: + http_host = None + if mm_cfg.VIRTUAL_HOST_OVERVIEW and http_host: + host_name = http_host + else: + host_name = mm_cfg.DEFAULT_HOST_NAME + doc = Document() ! legend = "%s mailing lists" % host_name doc.SetTitle(legend) table = Table(border=0, width="100%") *************** *** 70,82 **** names = Utils.list_names() names.sort() - # XXX We need a portable way to determine the host by which we are being - # visited! An absolute URL would do... - if os.environ.has_key('HTTP_HOST'): - http_host = os.environ['HTTP_HOST'] - else: - http_host = None - for n in names: l = MailList.MailList(n, lock = 0) if l.advertised: --- 82,87 ---- *************** *** 99,105 **** "

" " There currently are no publicly-advertised ", Link(mm_cfg.MAILMAN_URL, "mailman"), ! " mailing lists on %s." % mm_cfg.DEFAULT_HOST_NAME, ) else: --- 104,110 ---- "

" " There currently are no publicly-advertised ", Link(mm_cfg.MAILMAN_URL, "mailman"), ! " mailing lists on %s." % host_name, ) else: *************** *** 108,114 **** "

" " Below is the collection of publicly-advertised ", Link(mm_cfg.MAILMAN_URL, "mailman"), ! " mailing lists on %s." % mm_cfg.DEFAULT_HOST_NAME, (' Click on a list name to visit the info page' ' for that list. There you can learn more about the list,' ' subscribe to it, or find the roster of current subscribers.'), --- 113,119 ---- "

" " Below is the collection of publicly-advertised ", Link(mm_cfg.MAILMAN_URL, "mailman"), ! " mailing lists on %s." % host_name, (' Click on a list name to visit the info page' ' for that list. There you can learn more about the list,' ' subscribe to it, or find the roster of current subscribers.'), --------------44F33AF84B58B99E5A2BBBEB-- From gstein@lyra.org Sun Nov 8 04:31:35 1998 From: gstein@lyra.org (Greg Stein) Date: Sat, 07 Nov 1998 20:31:35 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Another patch Message-ID: <36451EA7.791D3D56@lyra.org> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------6A8F3BCA1FCCEE016CF700D9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This patch modifies the text in the subscription page. For list-admin-hidden lists, the text erroneously stated that list members could see the member list. -g -- Greg Stein, http://www.lyra.org/ --------------6A8F3BCA1FCCEE016CF700D9 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Received: from ns1.lyra.org (root@ns1.lyra.org [208.192.43.10]) by svpal.svpal.org (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id UAA06098 for ; Sat, 7 Nov 1998 20:24:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from cartman.lyra.org (cartman.lyra.org [208.192.43.15]) by ns1.lyra.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA31146 for ; Sat, 7 Nov 1998 20:29:40 -0800 Received: (from mailman@localhost) by cartman.lyra.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA05399 for gstein@lyra.org; Sat, 7 Nov 1998 20:29:20 -0800 Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 20:29:20 -0800 From: The Mailman Message-Id: <199811080429.UAA05399@cartman.lyra.org> *** HTMLFormatter.py-dist Sat Nov 7 16:07:54 1998 --- HTMLFormatter.py Sat Nov 7 20:28:49 1998 *************** *** 180,189 **** "administrator. You will be notified of the " "administrator's decision by email. ") also = "also " ! if self.private_roster: msg = msg + ("This is %sa private list, which means that " "the members list is not available to non-" "members. " % also) else: msg = msg + ("This is %sa public list, which means that the " "members list is openly available" % also) --- 180,193 ---- "administrator. You will be notified of the " "administrator's decision by email. ") also = "also " ! if self.private_roster == 1: msg = msg + ("This is %sa private list, which means that " "the members list is not available to non-" "members. " % also) + elif self.private_roster: + msg = msg + ("This is %sa hidden list, which means that " + "the members list is available only to the " + "list administrator. " % also) else: msg = msg + ("This is %sa public list, which means that the " "members list is openly available" % also) --------------6A8F3BCA1FCCEE016CF700D9-- From scott@chronis.pobox.com Sun Nov 8 04:26:18 1998 From: scott@chronis.pobox.com (Scott) Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 23:26:18 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Another patch In-Reply-To: <36451EA7.791D3D56@lyra.org>; from Greg Stein on Sat, Nov 07, 1998 at 08:31:35PM -0800 References: <36451EA7.791D3D56@lyra.org> Message-ID: <19981107232618.61933@chronis.icgroup.com> At this rate, you'll have 1.0b7 out in a week. keep going! scott On Sat, Nov 07, 1998 at 08:31:35PM -0800, Greg Stein wrote: | This patch modifies the text in the subscription page. For | list-admin-hidden lists, the text erroneously stated that list members | could see the member list. | | -g | | -- | Greg Stein, http://www.lyra.org/ | Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 20:29:20 -0800 | From: The Mailman | | *** HTMLFormatter.py-dist Sat Nov 7 16:07:54 1998 | --- HTMLFormatter.py Sat Nov 7 20:28:49 1998 | *************** | *** 180,189 **** | "administrator. You will be notified of the " | "administrator's decision by email. ") | also = "also " | ! if self.private_roster: | msg = msg + ("This is %sa private list, which means that " | "the members list is not available to non-" | "members. " % also) | else: | msg = msg + ("This is %sa public list, which means that the " | "members list is openly available" % also) | --- 180,193 ---- | "administrator. You will be notified of the " | "administrator's decision by email. ") | also = "also " | ! if self.private_roster == 1: | msg = msg + ("This is %sa private list, which means that " | "the members list is not available to non-" | "members. " % also) | + elif self.private_roster: | + msg = msg + ("This is %sa hidden list, which means that " | + "the members list is available only to the " | + "list administrator. " % also) | else: | msg = msg + ("This is %sa public list, which means that the " | "members list is openly available" % also) | From darren@jasper.somtel.com Sun Nov 8 04:42:48 1998 From: darren@jasper.somtel.com (Darren Henderson) Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 23:42:48 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Mailman-Developers] feature request Message-ID: It would be nice if administrative users could see a log of list activity. A web page would surfice... even just a grep of the subscribe log in reverse chronological order for their list though it might be handy to see other activity as well, (statistical type stuff...how many posts this week, month, year etc might be interesting though perhaps not of great utility). Perhaps access attempts for both administrative and user accounts to see if any fishy seems to be happening. ______________________________________________________________________ Darren Henderson darren@jasper.somtel.com Help fight junk e-mail, visit http://www.cauce.org/ From scott@chronis.pobox.com Sun Nov 8 05:39:38 1998 From: scott@chronis.pobox.com (Scott) Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 00:39:38 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Re: [Mailman-Users] mailman using old sendmail In-Reply-To: <4.1.19981107210437.00963100@128.59.97.9>; from farul ghazali on Sat, Nov 07, 1998 at 09:08:35PM -0500 References: <19981106160102.24819@chronis.icgroup.com> <4.1.19981107210437.00963100@128.59.97.9> Message-ID: <19981108003938.25283@chronis.icgroup.com> On Sat, Nov 07, 1998 at 09:08:35PM -0500, farul ghazali wrote: | Scott, | | THanks for trying to help. Here's the transcript you wanted. I would | personally love to upgrade the system, but I only take care of the machine | part time, the full time sysadmin is too swamped to do it herself now, No wonder she's swamped, running stuff that out of date ;) | but | she doesn't want me to do it either :-) updating mailers is a pain. | Again, much thanks. Oh, fyi, I'm using the 1.0b6 sources that was just | posted a few nights ago. Ogay, here's a patch (apply it to $prefix/mailman/Mailman/smtplib.py): It'll work :) 160c160 < if c == '5': --- > elif c == '5': 162c162 < if c not in '123': --- > elif c not in '123': 169a170,174 > > This is actually more of a problem with mailman's smtplib than anything else. The way it was coded, it was translating all errors into protocol errors, and the attempt to get esmpt access using EHLO instead of HELO revealed that. scott From dragondm@delta.integral.org Sun Nov 8 12:31:00 1998 From: dragondm@delta.integral.org (The Dragon De Monsyne) Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 06:31:00 -0600 (CST) Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Re: [Mailman-Users] mailman using old sendmail In-Reply-To: <19981108003938.25283@chronis.icgroup.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 8 Nov 1998, Scott wrote: > On Sat, Nov 07, 1998 at 09:08:35PM -0500, farul ghazali wrote: > > > This is actually more of a problem with mailman's smtplib than > anything else. The way it was coded, it was translating all errors > into protocol errors, and the attempt to get esmpt access using EHLO > instead of HELO revealed that. > Ugh... Don't tell me mailman is still using isn't using the standard python smtplib?! Wasn't my patch received?? -The Dragon De Monsyne From akuchlin@cnri.reston.va.us Sun Nov 8 17:41:15 1998 From: akuchlin@cnri.reston.va.us (A.M. Kuchling) Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 12:41:15 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] eSquire mailing list manager Message-ID: <199811081741.MAA17837@mira.erols.com> I attended a local Linux user group meeting on Saturday, and one presentation was by the author of the eSquire mailing list manager. The eSquire home page is at http://www.gamerz.net/eSquire/ . It's quite similar to Mailman in the capabilities that it supports; the major difference is that users only interact with it through e-mail, but administrators can do anything via the Web. In Mailman, subscribers can use the Web for setting their options, and some tasks, such as creating a new list, can only be done from the command line. (As a result, the code that creates new lists in eSquire needs to be setuid root in order to edit the aliases file.) Features that might be of interest for Mailman: * There are more classes of users. On a moderated list, some users can be set to have their posts automatically approved. There's also a list of banned users, who can follow the list but can't post. * Another list subscription policy: eSquire has open and closed lists as Mailman does, and adds a third level in-between, where any current subscriber can add new subscribers to the list. * Unsubscribes can require approval (useful for work-related lists) * You can create autoresponders. This is really orthogonal to mailing list handling, but you can create an autoresponder address which forwards any mail sent to it, and returns a response. For example, the author's e-mail is 'rrognlie', so he set up a forwarder for 'rognlie' to give people the correct address. At the moment the author is employed by Erols, a local ISP, and wrote eSquire for internal use. Soon he'll be changing jobs to work for Sendmail, Inc. -- A.M. Kuchling http://starship.skyport.net/crew/amk/ Well, me whole family's musical, Jeffo... even the sewing machine's a Singer. -- John Constantine in HELLBLAZER #90 From cklempay@acm.jhu.edu Sun Nov 8 18:33:18 1998 From: cklempay@acm.jhu.edu (Corbett J. Klempay) Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 13:33:18 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Mailman-Developers] gate_news gone mad Message-ID: First: thanks to Scott...he spent some time on the machine last night finding some oddness (I don't know that we're sure yet why it set a bunch of the symlinks wrong....but it works now, so hey :) Now: I got an email when I woke up (just recently :) that mailman was spiking the load like mad. Sure enough, watching top revealed that it was spawning ~70 mailman processes every few minutes, which drove the load up to ~30...the processes would run for <= 5 seconds or so max and be gone. I thought it must be a cron job issue, and gate_news is the only thing with an interval anywhere near that small (I didn't watch forever to make sure it was 5 minutes, but it looked to be in the ballpark). After reinstalling that crontab file with gate_news commented it, the spikes have stopped. Has anyone else seen weird gate_news behavior before? We don't need it here...we don't do any gating. I'm fairly sure I had it commented out in the previous (b5) installation, but I'm not positive. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Corbett J. Klempay Quote of the Week: http://www2.acm.jhu.edu/~cklempay "Conscience is the inner voice that warns up that someone may be looking." PGP Fingerprint: 7DA2 DB6E 7F5E 8973 A8E7 347B 2429 7728 76C2 BEA1 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From cklempay@acm.jhu.edu Sun Nov 8 18:36:54 1998 From: cklempay@acm.jhu.edu (Corbett J. Klempay) Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 13:36:54 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Mailman-Developers] load history Message-ID: I don't know if anyone finds it useful in relation to my last message, but we have a graphical load monitor for the last day for the machine at http://www2.acm.jhu.edu/~slipcon/graphs/ It's chimera.acm.jhu.edu. Hehhee...the scale for the graph had to be adjusted to max out at 44 :) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Corbett J. Klempay Quote of the Week: http://www2.acm.jhu.edu/~cklempay "Conscience is the inner voice that warns up that someone may be looking." PGP Fingerprint: 7DA2 DB6E 7F5E 8973 A8E7 347B 2429 7728 76C2 BEA1 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From John@list.org Sun Nov 8 20:56:46 1998 From: John@list.org (John Viega) Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 12:56:46 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] eSquire mailing list manager In-Reply-To: <199811081741.MAA17837@mira.erols.com>; from A.M. Kuchling on Sun, Nov 08, 1998 at 12:41:15PM -0500 References: <199811081741.MAA17837@mira.erols.com> Message-ID: <19981108125646.A2051@viega.org> > Features that might be of interest for Mailman: > > * There are more classes of users. On a moderated list, some > users can be set to have their posts automatically approved. There's > also a list of banned users, who can follow the list but can't post. You can do these things in Mailman, but it's more centralized. There is a listbox for each of these two things. Which do you think is more useful? Or both? > * Another list subscription policy: eSquire has open and closed > lists as Mailman does, and adds a third level in-between, where any > current subscriber can add new subscribers to the list. Good idea. > * Unsubscribes can require approval (useful for work-related > lists) Good idea. > * You can create autoresponders. This is really orthogonal to > mailing list handling, but you can create an autoresponder address > which forwards any mail sent to it, and returns a response. For > example, the author's e-mail is 'rrognlie', so he set up a forwarder > for 'rognlie' to give people the correct address. Is it as sophisticated as vacation? Ie, does it keep a database of who it's responded to recently to avoid mail loops, and the like? So did you tell this guy about Mailman? What did he say? John From gstein@lyra.org Mon Nov 9 04:36:05 1998 From: gstein@lyra.org (Greg Stein) Date: Sun, 08 Nov 1998 20:36:05 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] BUGS: URL vs file pathnames Message-ID: <36467135.53464EB3@lyra.org> Hello... There are a number of obsolete files in the distribution. Should be torched. Mailman/Archiver.py Mailman/pipermail.py Mailman/HyperArch.py Mailman/HyperDatabase.py Also, there is a general problem in the code with using os.path.join to construct URLs. A URL is NOT a file path. You don't want to use ":" or "\" if Mailman is run on a different platform. The os.path.join should go away and string concat should be used with "/". HTMLFormatter.py: lines 96 and 299 MailList.py: 442 Cgi/admin.py: 220, 401 Cgi/archives.py: 72 Cgi/edithtml.py: 95, 161 Cgi/listinfo.py: 130 Archiver/Archiver.py: 118, 122 Also, line 101 of MailList.py has a hard-coded "/" rather than using os.path.join. Finally: Archiver/Archiver.py:122 should have a trailing "/" on the public archive URL. The trailing slash prevents an internal redirection in Apache -- this screws me because it switches the hostname from a CNAME to the "real" hostname. -g -- Greg Stein, http://www.lyra.org/ From gstein@lyra.org Mon Nov 9 04:47:07 1998 From: gstein@lyra.org (Greg Stein) Date: Sun, 08 Nov 1998 20:47:07 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] patch for password-reminder message Message-ID: <364673CB.4939E8C8@lyra.org> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------70A0D8B84F8277491A4D85E3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Here is a patch to automatically adjust the listinfo text for the reminder message. A small tweak to templates/listinfo.html:76 also needs to be made to replace the text with . -g -- Greg Stein, http://www.lyra.org/ --------------70A0D8B84F8277491A4D85E3 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Received: from ns1.lyra.org (root@ns1.lyra.org [208.192.43.10]) by svpal.svpal.org (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id UAA24922 for ; Sun, 8 Nov 1998 20:40:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from cartman.lyra.org (cartman.lyra.org [208.192.43.15]) by ns1.lyra.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA05110 for ; Sun, 8 Nov 1998 20:46:21 -0800 Received: (from mailman@localhost) by cartman.lyra.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA07343 for gstein@lyra.org; Sun, 8 Nov 1998 20:46:01 -0800 Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 20:46:01 -0800 From: The Mailman Message-Id: <199811090446.UAA07343@cartman.lyra.org> *** HTMLFormatter.py-dist Sat Nov 7 16:07:54 1998 --- HTMLFormatter.py Sun Nov 8 20:40:40 1998 *************** *** 310,315 **** --- 314,324 ---- def FormatButton(self, name, text='Submit'): return '' % (name, text) + def FormatReminder(self): + if self.send_reminders: + return 'Once a month, your password will be emailed to you as a reminder.' + return '' + def ParseTags(self, template, replacements): text = self.SnarfHTMLTemplate(template) parts = regsub.splitx(text, ']*>') *************** *** 348,354 **** + `len(self.digest_members)`), '' : '%s' % self.GetListEmail(), '' : '%s' % self.GetRequestEmail(), ! '' : self.GetAdminEmail() } def InitTemplates(self): --- 357,364 ---- + `len(self.digest_members)`), '' : '%s' % self.GetListEmail(), '' : '%s' % self.GetRequestEmail(), ! '' : self.GetAdminEmail(), ! '' : self.FormatReminder(), } def InitTemplates(self): --------------70A0D8B84F8277491A4D85E3-- From jeff@ollie.clive.ia.us Mon Nov 9 14:06:59 1998 From: jeff@ollie.clive.ia.us (Jeffrey C. Ollie) Date: Mon, 09 Nov 1998 08:06:59 -0600 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] CVS Problem? References: <36448595.C44851A8@ollie.clive.ia.us> <13892.52983.47756.611702@anthem.cnri.reston.va.us> Message-ID: <3646F703.FCAB7B1D@ollie.clive.ia.us> This is a cryptographically signed message in MIME format. --------------ms665007A6275AEA2D4C435F77 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "Barry A. Warsaw" wrote: > > >>>>> "JCO" == Jeffrey C Ollie writes: > > JCO> Hmmm... while trying to do a "cvs update" I ran into the > JCO> following problem. This error occurs even if I start fresh. > > Try it now. Yes, much better! Thanks! 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Kuchling) Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 09:09:32 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Mailman-Developers] eSquire mailing list manager In-Reply-To: <19981108125646.A2051@viega.org> References: <199811081741.MAA17837@mira.erols.com> <19981108125646.A2051@viega.org> Message-ID: <13894.63305.542498.242251@amarok.cnri.reston.va.us> John Viega writes: >Is it as sophisticated as vacation? Ie, does it keep a database of >who it's responded to recently to avoid mail loops, and the like? He didn't mention it doing so, so it probably doesn't do anything that fancy. >So did you tell this guy about Mailman? What did he say? No, there wasn't much of a question period, and I didn't talk to him after the meeting. -- A.M. Kuchling http://starship.skyport.net/crew/amk/ Get your head outta the clouds! Not you, kiddo. I was talking to Tiny. He gets his head in the clouds, he'll be sneezing for days. -- Mervyn Pumpkinhead, in SANDMAN: "The Castle" From dragondm@delta.integral.org Mon Nov 9 15:33:33 1998 From: dragondm@delta.integral.org (The Dragon De Monsyne) Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 09:33:33 -0600 (CST) Subject: [Mailman-Developers] gate_news gone mad In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 8 Nov 1998, Corbett J. Klempay wrote: > First: thanks to Scott...he spent some time on the machine last night > finding some oddness (I don't know that we're sure yet why it set a bunch > of the symlinks wrong....but it works now, so hey :) > > Now: I got an email when I woke up (just recently :) that mailman was > spiking the load like mad. Sure enough, watching top revealed that it was > spawning ~70 mailman processes every few minutes, which drove the load up > to ~30...the processes would run for <= 5 seconds or so max and be gone. > I thought it must be a cron job issue, and gate_news is the only thing > with an interval anywhere near that small (I didn't watch forever to make > sure it was 5 minutes, but it looked to be in the ballpark). After > reinstalling that crontab file with gate_news commented it, the spikes > have stopped. Has anyone else seen weird gate_news behavior before? We > don't need it here...we don't do any gating. I'm fairly sure I had it > commented out in the previous (b5) installation, but I'm not positive. Yup. I've seen this too. And it is gate_news, I've run top on a very wide xwindow to read the full proc. name. I also don't use the gateway, and just commented it out. And I can see, looking at the gate_news code exactly why it will do that, too.... The way it is currently coded, it will fork proccesses, and _those_ will fork -1 proccesses, and _those_ will fork -2 proccesses, etc. The last for loop in gate_news needs a sys._exit() at the end to fix this. -The Dragon De Monsyne From tomas@euronetics.se Mon Nov 9 16:11:29 1998 From: tomas@euronetics.se (Tomas Fasth) Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 17:11:29 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Internationalization Message-ID: <00ac01be0bfb$9c6627f0$f6d52dc1@bishop.twinspot.net> Harald, I did brought this up a while ago (Sept. 4), and there was a response from Ken Manheimer. He explained that because the core developers currently are trying to stablize a 1.0 release the issue of internationalization (i18n) is not currently on the priority list. I was about to point you to the archives, but couldn't find anything before Oct 2. Instead I'll send you a copy in private, don't want to duplicate it on this list. Like you I am prepared to do a translation (in my case Swedish). I did try a translation of the human presentation text in the 1.0b5 release, but gave up after a while when I realized it got a little bit too complicated with too many modules involved. In order to achieve i18n of mailman, it definitely involves some architectural considerations and (at least) partial change of the code. There seem to exist ideas in the heads of the core developers on how to achieve i18n in mailman. But we might have to give them some time and bring this up again later. Tomas From John@list.org Mon Nov 9 16:21:42 1998 From: John@list.org (John Viega) Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 08:21:42 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Internationalization In-Reply-To: <00ac01be0bfb$9c6627f0$f6d52dc1@bishop.twinspot.net>; from Tomas Fasth on Mon, Nov 09, 1998 at 05:11:29PM +0100 References: <00ac01be0bfb$9c6627f0$f6d52dc1@bishop.twinspot.net> Message-ID: <19981109082142.A9205@viega.org> Guys, I disagree with Ken on the prioritization of internationalization. The big problem is someone needs to rework parts of the software so that all interesting text reads from a file, or something like that. If anyone wants to take on the task, and submit patches, I'd rather see it get integrated sooner rather than later. Perhaps it's time to keep 2 development trees, a beta series that will soon become 1.0 and only gets bug fixes + documentation + "critical" features, and an alpha series that will eventually become 1.1... Anyway, if you want to do the work, we'll figure out how to integrate it so that people can use it ASAP. John On Mon, Nov 09, 1998 at 05:11:29PM +0100, Tomas Fasth wrote: > Harald, > I did brought this up a while ago (Sept. 4), and there was a response from > Ken Manheimer. He explained that because the core developers currently are > trying to stablize a 1.0 release the issue of internationalization (i18n) is > not currently on the priority list. > I was about to point you to the archives, but couldn't find anything before > Oct 2. Instead I'll send you a copy in private, don't want to duplicate it > on this list. > > Like you I am prepared to do a translation (in my case Swedish). > I did try a translation of the human presentation text in the 1.0b5 release, > but gave up after a while when I realized it got a little bit too > complicated with too many modules involved. > In order to achieve i18n of mailman, it definitely involves some > architectural considerations and (at least) partial change of the code. > There seem to exist ideas in the heads of the core developers on how to > achieve i18n in mailman. But we might have to give them some time and bring > this up again later. > > Tomas > > > > _______________________________________________ > Mailman-Developers maillist - Mailman-Developers@python.org > http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers From scott@chronis.pobox.com Mon Nov 9 20:36:09 1998 From: scott@chronis.pobox.com (Scott) Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 15:36:09 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] BUGS: URL vs file pathnames In-Reply-To: <36467135.53464EB3@lyra.org>; from Greg Stein on Sun, Nov 08, 1998 at 08:36:05PM -0800 References: <36467135.53464EB3@lyra.org> Message-ID: <19981109153609.44163@chronis.icgroup.com> On Sun, Nov 08, 1998 at 08:36:05PM -0800, Greg Stein wrote: | Hello... | | There are a number of obsolete files in the distribution. Should be | torched. | Mailman/Archiver.py | Mailman/pipermail.py | Mailman/HyperArch.py | Mailman/HyperDatabase.py | running "make update" from the source should delete these. they're no longer in the source tree (at this location) either. | Also, there is a general problem in the code with using os.path.join to | construct URLs. A URL is NOT a file path. You don't want to use ":" or | "\" if Mailman is run on a different platform. The os.path.join should | go away and string concat should be used with "/". | | HTMLFormatter.py: lines 96 and 299 | MailList.py: 442 | Cgi/admin.py: 220, 401 | Cgi/archives.py: 72 | Cgi/edithtml.py: 95, 161 | Cgi/listinfo.py: 130 | Archiver/Archiver.py: 118, 122 I'm working on fixing these now. | | Also, line 101 of MailList.py has a hard-coded "/" rather than using | os.path.join. ditto. thx. | Finally: Archiver/Archiver.py:122 should have a trailing "/" on the | public archive URL. The trailing slash prevents an internal redirection | in Apache -- this screws me because it switches the hostname from a | CNAME to the "real" hostname. What sort of internal redirection? scott From gstein@lyra.org Mon Nov 9 20:59:37 1998 From: gstein@lyra.org (Greg Stein) Date: Mon, 09 Nov 1998 12:59:37 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] BUGS: URL vs file pathnames References: <36467135.53464EB3@lyra.org> <19981109153609.44163@chronis.icgroup.com> Message-ID: <364757B9.64145454@lyra.org> Scott wrote: > On Sun, Nov 08, 1998 at 08:36:05PM -0800, Greg Stein wrote: > | Hello... > | > | There are a number of obsolete files in the distribution. Should be > | torched. > | Mailman/Archiver.py > | Mailman/pipermail.py > | Mailman/HyperArch.py > | Mailman/HyperDatabase.py > | > > running "make update" from the source should delete these. > they're no longer in the source tree (at this location) either. Euh... I installed from scratch. Those files are in the tarball and/or install script (not left over from an updated install area). That just seems wrong. > ... > | Finally: Archiver/Archiver.py:122 should have a trailing "/" on the > | public archive URL. The trailing slash prevents an internal redirection > | in Apache -- this screws me because it switches the hostname from a > | CNAME to the "real" hostname. > > What sort of internal redirection? If you send a request for a directory to Apache without a trailing "/", then it will append the "/" and do an "internal redirect". The result of this is that the browser will update the URL that it displays to the internal-redirect location. In my case, it lost the CNAME hostname and picked up the true name (undesirable). By appending the "/" on there, it doesn't do the redirect and everything is hunky-dory. Heck, you could also argue that the patch is for improving web server performance :-) Cheers, -g -- Greg Stein, http://www.lyra.org/ From bedard@info.uqam.ca Tue Nov 10 05:10:46 1998 From: bedard@info.uqam.ca (Francois Bedard) Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 00:10:46 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Internationalization Message-ID: <3647CAD6.E9130694@info.uqam.ca> Following up on the lead by Harald Meland, Tomas Fasth, John Viega and earlier postings in the archives... As preliminary research for a project at the Universite du Quebec a Montreal, we've been looking for an open source mailing list manager which could be translated into French - or, better yet, internationalized so that local versions could be easily produced for any number of languages. We haven't yet decided on what program would be the most interesting - we might go with Sympa, which already offers a French interface alongside the default English one, as we might drop the project altogether. On the other hand, should we decide mostly on the basis of perceived potential, Mailman, for little we've seen, would appear to have a number of commending features: Python being one, the web interface, GNU label and apparent dynamism being others. Our objective is more ambitious than that expressed by Harald Meland though. We'd specifically like to: 1) Translate the web interface and all messages generated by Mailman. 2) Translate the commands (e.g. "subscribe" and the like) or offer the possibility of using either the English form or a local version - the reason being that intended users might include people unfamiliar with both English and computers. 3) Add any such feature as would be needed to preserve the integrity of the content (I'm thinking accented characters and the like) where possible, or its sensible adaptation where limitations would so dictate (that is, a preference for Unicode over ASCII and ASCII over garbled). We'd appreciate if someone could give us an idea of the work involved to bring this about. Any comment on the comparative merits of Mailman would come handy as well. Since interest has by now been expressed for a number of languages, perhaps this could be made into a more concerted effort... Thanks to all, Francois Bedard UQAM Montreal From tomas@euronetics.se Tue Nov 10 13:59:28 1998 From: tomas@euronetics.se (Tomas Fasth) Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 14:59:28 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Internationalization Message-ID: <007401be0cb2$550dc3b0$f6d52dc1@bishop.twinspot.net> John, I think making a separate branch in cvs for this is a good idea, as a matter of fact, it is IMO the only reasonable way to deal with parallel activities. My experience with cvs says that a later merge is fairly straight forward. Besides, most probable is that merges are made into the i18n branch to incorporate bug fixes and such from the 1.0 branch. At some point, before the release of 1.1, the i18n branch will probably take the lead (becoming head version). Regrettably, I am in the coming months heavily booked and should therefore not get involved in mailman coding (I need more time to do a good job). I can however provide a Swedish translation and serve as a (Swedish) test site for the i18n efford. Tomas From darren@jasper.somtel.com Tue Nov 10 18:09:15 1998 From: darren@jasper.somtel.com (Darren Henderson) Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 13:09:15 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Mailman-Developers] feature suggestion Message-ID: Very low priority idea... Might be nice if list members could simple line of text (might consist of a url) that could be stored in the database and accessed via the list membership pages. I think I would mingle the digest and non-digest addresses and just flag the digest ones. Then in the right hand display the above user info. They might wish to supply additional contact information for instance. ______________________________________________________________________ Darren Henderson darren@jasper.somtel.com Help fight junk e-mail, visit http://www.cauce.org/ From bedard@info.uqam.ca Tue Nov 10 20:09:57 1998 From: bedard@info.uqam.ca (Francois Bedard) Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 15:09:57 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Internationalization References: <3647CAD6.E9130694@info.uqam.ca> <19981110145325.D5220@mail.tolna.net> Message-ID: <36489D95.360D566A@info.uqam.ca> Hello Peter, Peter Gervai wrote: > It wasn't clear whether you are intended to translate the program > as a whole or making it possible to be able to choose the supported > language on a list-by-list basis (plug a language to the list). We'd like for the users and maintainers of a list to be able to function entirely in their own language if they so desire. So, whatever it takes to achieve that... It would probably be best if maintainers could specify default and alternative languages for each list, and if as well individual users could select the language of their choice among the alternatives offered. > It would be really nice to have the possibility to host lists > with national language interface as well as english (or probably > other) language based lists as well on the same installation. Indeed. Many countries have more than one official language (not that it has to be official); Switzerland has four and is not an extreme case at that. As more and more people get to join or offer mailing lists, not all of them computer-savvy, it would be nice if they could do so in the most comfortable of ways. A web interface is certainly a good step in this direction; support for alternative languages would definitely be another. Francois Bedard From gorgo@caesar.elte.hu Thu Nov 12 10:12:32 1998 From: gorgo@caesar.elte.hu (Gergely Madarasz) Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 11:12:32 +0100 (MET) Subject: [Mailman-Developers] gate_news crashed my machine Message-ID: Hello! I just upgraded to 1.0b6, everything worked fine, except for this little thing... pushed the load up to >180, nothing worked after... :( So, exactly what is the fix for gate_news ? Don't tell me to buy a faster machine :) Thanks, Greg -- Madarasz Gergely gorgo@caesar.elte.hu gorgo@linux.rulez.org It's practically impossible to look at a penguin and feel angry. Egy pingvinre gyakorlatilag lehetetlen haragosan nezni. HuLUG: http://mlf.linux.rulez.org/ From scott@chronis.pobox.com Thu Nov 12 10:05:47 1998 From: scott@chronis.pobox.com (Scott) Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 05:05:47 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] gate_news crashed my machine In-Reply-To: ; from Gergely Madarasz on Thu, Nov 12, 1998 at 11:12:32AM +0100 References: Message-ID: <19981112050547.19882@chronis.icgroup.com> the fix is to add os._exit(0) to the line right after file.close() like so: # Save after every newsgroup... should probably save after every post. # Reason being, want to make sure in case of a system crash or something, # The same messages don't get gated multiple times. file = open(os.path.join(mm_cfg.DATA_DIR, "gate_watermarks"), "w") marshal.dump(watermarks, file) file.close() os._exit(0) sorry 'bout that one. You may want to just comment out the cron job if you don't do any new gatewaying. I've never seen a load of 180 before. highest i've seen is about 130, that was sendmail's fault. i guess mailman gets the prize most potentially abusive to the system's load. needless to say, this fix is in the current cvs sources. scott On Thu, Nov 12, 1998 at 11:12:32AM +0100, Gergely Madarasz wrote: | Hello! | | I just upgraded to 1.0b6, everything worked fine, except for this little | thing... pushed the load up to >180, nothing worked after... :( | So, exactly what is the fix for gate_news ? Don't tell me to buy a faster | machine :) | | Thanks, | | Greg | | -- | Madarasz Gergely gorgo@caesar.elte.hu gorgo@linux.rulez.org | It's practically impossible to look at a penguin and feel angry. | Egy pingvinre gyakorlatilag lehetetlen haragosan nezni. | HuLUG: http://mlf.linux.rulez.org/ | | | _______________________________________________ | Mailman-Developers maillist - Mailman-Developers@python.org | http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers | From gorgo@caesar.elte.hu Fri Nov 13 14:51:29 1998 From: gorgo@caesar.elte.hu (Gergely Madarasz) Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 15:51:29 +0100 (MET) Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Re: [Mailman-Users] admin requests on the lists In-Reply-To: <19981112120435.03662@chronis.icgroup.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 12 Nov 1998, Scott wrote: > is the administrivia check turned on? Yes. > > if so, then please forward examples of administrivia that found their > way through to mailman-developers, we'll make it better. Here is a very simple example: Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 15:26:27 -0100 (GMT) From: Reply-To: linux-kezdo@mlf.linux.rulez.org To: linux-kezdo@mlf.linux.rulez.org Subject: [lk] (no subject) subscribe _______________________________________________________ linux-kezdo lista - linux-kezdo@mlf.linux.rulez.org http://mlf.linux.rulez.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-kezdo > > On Thu, Nov 12, 1998 at 04:13:50PM +0100, Gergely Madarasz wrote: > | Hello! > | > | I've upgraded to 1.0b6 and it seems that the admin request filtering > | doesn't work. For example unsubscribe messages to the list don't get > | caught. Any ideas ? > | > | -- > | Madarasz Gergely gorgo@caesar.elte.hu gorgo@linux.rulez.org > | It's practically impossible to look at a penguin and feel angry. > | Egy pingvinre gyakorlatilag lehetetlen haragosan nezni. > | HuLUG: http://mlf.linux.rulez.org/ > | > | > | > | ------------------------------------------------------ > | Mailman-Users maillist - Mailman-Users@python.org > | http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users > | > -- Madarasz Gergely gorgo@caesar.elte.hu gorgo@linux.rulez.org It's practically impossible to look at a penguin and feel angry. Egy pingvinre gyakorlatilag lehetetlen haragosan nezni. HuLUG: http://mlf.linux.rulez.org/ From scott@chronis.pobox.com Fri Nov 13 17:30:42 1998 From: scott@chronis.pobox.com (Scott) Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 12:30:42 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Re: [Mailman-Users] admin requests on the lists In-Reply-To: ; from Gergely Madarasz on Fri, Nov 13, 1998 at 03:51:29PM +0100 References: <19981112120435.03662@chronis.icgroup.com> Message-ID: <19981113123042.43578@chronis.icgroup.com> On Fri, Nov 13, 1998 at 03:51:29PM +0100, Gergely Madarasz wrote: | On Thu, 12 Nov 1998, Scott wrote: | | > is the administrivia check turned on? | | Yes. | | > | > if so, then please forward examples of administrivia that found their | > way through to mailman-developers, we'll make it better. | | Here is a very simple example: | | Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 15:26:27 -0100 (GMT) | From: | Reply-To: linux-kezdo@mlf.linux.rulez.org | To: linux-kezdo@mlf.linux.rulez.org | Subject: [lk] (no subject) | | subscribe | | | _______________________________________________________ | linux-kezdo lista - linux-kezdo@mlf.linux.rulez.org | http://mlf.linux.rulez.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-kezdo This message should have been caught by the administrivia filter. It looks at the message before the message footer and subsject are altered and so, to quote your message like that: """\ Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 15:26:27 -0100 (GMT) From: Reply-To: linux-kezdo@mlf.linux.rulez.org To: linux-kezdo@mlf.linux.rulez.org subscribe """ and to run the administrivia check on it by hand: >>> from Mailman.Message import IncomingMessage >>> from Mailman.Utils import IsAdministrivia >>> txt = """Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 15:26:27 -0100 (GMT) ... From: ... Reply-To: linux-kezdo@mlf.linux.rulez.org ... To: linux-kezdo@mlf.linux.rulez.org ... ... subscribe ... ... """ >>> msg = IncomingMessage(txt) >>> IsAdministrivia(msg) 1 >>> Maybe I'm missing something, but it seems like the problem (in this case) is not in the accuracy of the administrivia check, but in the list config. what happens if you run echo subscribe | mail ??? On every installation i've seen, it flags the request as administrivia and sends it to the list admin for approval. scott From gorgo@caesar.elte.hu Fri Nov 13 18:46:58 1998 From: gorgo@caesar.elte.hu (Gergely Madarasz) Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 19:46:58 +0100 (MET) Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Re: [Mailman-Users] admin requests on the lists In-Reply-To: <19981113123042.43578@chronis.icgroup.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 13 Nov 1998, Scott wrote: > >>> msg = IncomingMessage(txt) > >>> IsAdministrivia(msg) > 1 > >>> same here. > what happens if you run > > echo subscribe | mail > > ??? It is caught by the filter. But if I send a simple message containing only one word (subscribe) from pine, it is sent to the list. -- Madarasz Gergely gorgo@caesar.elte.hu gorgo@linux.rulez.org It's practically impossible to look at a penguin and feel angry. Egy pingvinre gyakorlatilag lehetetlen haragosan nezni. HuLUG: http://mlf.linux.rulez.org/ From scott@chronis.pobox.com Fri Nov 13 18:44:39 1998 From: scott@chronis.pobox.com (Scott) Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 13:44:39 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Re: [Mailman-Users] admin requests on the lists In-Reply-To: ; from Gergely Madarasz on Fri, Nov 13, 1998 at 07:46:58PM +0100 References: <19981113123042.43578@chronis.icgroup.com> Message-ID: <19981113134439.36511@chronis.icgroup.com> I don't have pine, can you send me such a message from pine so i can have a pristine copy to wrok with? scott On Fri, Nov 13, 1998 at 07:46:58PM +0100, Gergely Madarasz wrote: | On Fri, 13 Nov 1998, Scott wrote: | | > >>> msg = IncomingMessage(txt) | > >>> IsAdministrivia(msg) | > 1 | > >>> | | same here. | | > what happens if you run | > | > echo subscribe | mail | > | > ??? | | It is caught by the filter. But if I send a simple message containing only | one word (subscribe) from pine, it is sent to the list. | | -- | Madarasz Gergely gorgo@caesar.elte.hu gorgo@linux.rulez.org | It's practically impossible to look at a penguin and feel angry. | Egy pingvinre gyakorlatilag lehetetlen haragosan nezni. | HuLUG: http://mlf.linux.rulez.org/ | | | _______________________________________________ | Mailman-Developers maillist - Mailman-Developers@python.org | http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers | From gorgo@caesar.elte.hu Fri Nov 13 19:18:32 1998 From: gorgo@caesar.elte.hu (Gergely Madarasz) Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 20:18:32 +0100 (MET) Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Re: [Mailman-Users] admin requests on the lists In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hello! I think I found it. In IsAdministrivia: lines = map(string.lower, msg.readlines()) This returns the whole message, and then checks for administrivia in it, including the headers. Some mailers add custom headers, mta-s add Received headers, so we cannot tell how many header lines there can be. And then it checks if lines_with_text > 10: headers will be counted too. So I guess this should be modified to check only the body of the message. Now I increased this number to 30, should work in most cases, but this is only a hack... :) -- Madarasz Gergely gorgo@caesar.elte.hu gorgo@linux.rulez.org It's practically impossible to look at a penguin and feel angry. Egy pingvinre gyakorlatilag lehetetlen haragosan nezni. HuLUG: http://mlf.linux.rulez.org/ From scott@chronis.pobox.com Fri Nov 13 19:24:26 1998 From: scott@chronis.pobox.com (Scott) Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 14:24:26 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Re: [Mailman-Users] admin requests on the lists In-Reply-To: ; from Gergely Madarasz on Fri, Nov 13, 1998 at 08:18:32PM +0100 References: Message-ID: <19981113142426.54429@chronis.icgroup.com> Ok, here's a better version. fixes the readlines thing, and strips the sig. # # given an IncomingMessage object, # test for administrivia (eg subscribe, unsubscribe, etc). # the test must be a good guess -- messages that return true # get sent to the list admin instead of the entire list. # def IsAdministrivia(msg): lines = map(string.lower, string.split(msg.body, "\n")) # # check to see how many lines that actually have text in them there are # admin_data = {"subscribe": (0, 3), "unsubscribe": (0, 1), "who": (0,0), "info": (0,0), "lists": (0,0), "set": (2, 3), "help": (0,0), "password": (2, 2), "options": (0,0), "remove": (0, 0)} lines_with_text = 0 print lines for line in lines: if string.strip(line): lines_with_text = lines_with_text + 1 if lines_with_text > 30: # we might want to change this to mm_cfg.DEFAULT_MAIL_COMMANDS_MAX_LINES. return 0 sig_ind = string.find(msg.body, "\n-- ") if sig_ind != -1: body = msg.body[:sig_ind] else: body = msg.body if admin_data.has_key(string.lower(string.strip(body))): return 1 try: if admin_data.has_key(string.lower(string.strip(msg["subject"]))): return 1 except KeyError: pass for line in lines[:5]: if not string.strip(line): continue words = string.split(line) if admin_data.has_key(words[0]): min_args, max_args = admin_data[words[0]] if min_args <= len(words[1:]) <= max_args: return 1 return 0 scott On Fri, Nov 13, 1998 at 08:18:32PM +0100, Gergely Madarasz wrote: | Hello! | | I think I found it. | In IsAdministrivia: | lines = map(string.lower, msg.readlines()) | This returns the whole message, and then checks for administrivia in it, | including the headers. Some mailers add custom headers, mta-s add Received | headers, so we cannot tell how many header lines there can be. And then it | checks | if lines_with_text > 10: | headers will be counted too. So I guess this should be modified to check | only the body of the message. Now I increased this number to 30, should | work in most cases, but this is only a hack... :) | | -- | Madarasz Gergely gorgo@caesar.elte.hu gorgo@linux.rulez.org | It's practically impossible to look at a penguin and feel angry. | Egy pingvinre gyakorlatilag lehetetlen haragosan nezni. | HuLUG: http://mlf.linux.rulez.org/ | | | _______________________________________________ | Mailman-Developers maillist - Mailman-Developers@python.org | http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers | From scott@chronis.pobox.com Fri Nov 13 19:25:34 1998 From: scott@chronis.pobox.com (Scott) Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 14:25:34 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Re: [Mailman-Users] admin requests on the lists In-Reply-To: <19981113142426.54429@chronis.icgroup.com>; from Scott on Fri, Nov 13, 1998 at 02:24:26PM -0500 References: <19981113142426.54429@chronis.icgroup.com> Message-ID: <19981113142534.32073@chronis.icgroup.com> forgot to take out that "print lines" line of code, it should be removed. scott On Fri, Nov 13, 1998 at 02:24:26PM -0500, Scott wrote: | | Ok, here's a better version. fixes the readlines thing, and strips the sig. | | # | # given an IncomingMessage object, | # test for administrivia (eg subscribe, unsubscribe, etc). | # the test must be a good guess -- messages that return true | # get sent to the list admin instead of the entire list. | # | def IsAdministrivia(msg): | lines = map(string.lower, string.split(msg.body, "\n")) | # | # check to see how many lines that actually have text in them there are | # | admin_data = {"subscribe": (0, 3), | "unsubscribe": (0, 1), | "who": (0,0), | "info": (0,0), | "lists": (0,0), | "set": (2, 3), | "help": (0,0), | "password": (2, 2), | "options": (0,0), | "remove": (0, 0)} | lines_with_text = 0 | print lines | for line in lines: | if string.strip(line): | lines_with_text = lines_with_text + 1 | if lines_with_text > 30: # we might want to change this to mm_cfg.DEFAULT_MAIL_COMMANDS_MAX_LINES. | return 0 | sig_ind = string.find(msg.body, "\n-- ") | if sig_ind != -1: | body = msg.body[:sig_ind] | else: | body = msg.body | if admin_data.has_key(string.lower(string.strip(body))): | return 1 | try: | if admin_data.has_key(string.lower(string.strip(msg["subject"]))): | return 1 | except KeyError: | pass | for line in lines[:5]: | if not string.strip(line): | continue | words = string.split(line) | if admin_data.has_key(words[0]): | min_args, max_args = admin_data[words[0]] | if min_args <= len(words[1:]) <= max_args: | return 1 | return 0 | | | scott | | | On Fri, Nov 13, 1998 at 08:18:32PM +0100, Gergely Madarasz wrote: | | Hello! | | | | I think I found it. | | In IsAdministrivia: | | lines = map(string.lower, msg.readlines()) | | This returns the whole message, and then checks for administrivia in it, | | including the headers. Some mailers add custom headers, mta-s add Received | | headers, so we cannot tell how many header lines there can be. And then it | | checks | | if lines_with_text > 10: | | headers will be counted too. So I guess this should be modified to check | | only the body of the message. Now I increased this number to 30, should | | work in most cases, but this is only a hack... :) | | | | -- | | Madarasz Gergely gorgo@caesar.elte.hu gorgo@linux.rulez.org | | It's practically impossible to look at a penguin and feel angry. | | Egy pingvinre gyakorlatilag lehetetlen haragosan nezni. | | HuLUG: http://mlf.linux.rulez.org/ | | | | | | _______________________________________________ | | Mailman-Developers maillist - Mailman-Developers@python.org | | http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers | | From grin@tolna.net Fri Nov 13 20:30:07 1998 From: grin@tolna.net (Peter Gervai) Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 21:30:07 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] mime decoded mail in the archieves? Message-ID: <19981113213007.I25958@mail.tolna.net> The new beta is fantastic, I mean, hey, it works even for me! :-)) Archieving is pretty, but I realized that it does not handle the MIME-encoded accented letters at all (or, at least, not when converting them from the old archives). Since half of the users is not able to use a decent mail software they don't use iso8859-2 but mime-encodeded iso8859-1: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Text looks like: "jelen=E9s=E9nek feladatait szervezi, ir=E1ny=EDtja" I - in my infinite lameness - suspect that writing a mime decoder wouldn't be impossible. Could it be _simply_ done? It could be one step closer to i18n but I don't know how much demand is there for that.... (Probably national language archives should face the same problem?) cya, grin From cklempay@acm.jhu.edu Fri Nov 13 22:15:11 1998 From: cklempay@acm.jhu.edu (Corbett J. Klempay) Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 17:15:11 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Mailman-Developers] /home/mailman/cron/senddigests Message-ID: Anyone seen this? I've been getting this every day for weeks. (happened with b5 and now with b6) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Corbett J. Klempay Quote of the Week: http://www2.acm.jhu.edu/~cklempay "Conscience is the inner voice that warns up that someone may be looking." PGP Fingerprint: 7DA2 DB6E 7F5E 8973 A8E7 347B 2429 7728 76C2 BEA1 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 12:00:02 -0500 From: Cron Daemon To: mailman@chimera.acm.jhu.edu Subject: Cron /usr/bin/python /home/mailman/cron/senddigests Traceback (innermost last): File "/home/mailman/cron/senddigests", line 37, in ? main() File "/home/mailman/cron/senddigests", line 34, in main list.SendDigestIfAny() File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Digester.py", line 194, in SendDigestIfAny self.SendDigestOnSize(0) File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Digester.py", line 206, in SendDigestOnSize self.SendDigest() File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Digester.py", line 288, in SendDigest self.DeliverToList(d.Present(mime=0), File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Deliverer.py", line 133, in DeliverToList status = cmdproc.close() IOError: (10, 'No child processes') From grin@tolna.net Fri Nov 13 22:32:23 1998 From: grin@tolna.net (Peter Gervai) Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 23:32:23 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] accents in 'terse listname' and debug question Message-ID: <19981113233223.Y25958@mail.tolna.net> Sorry, it's me again :) 1) Something weird happens when I enter accented characters into some fields, and re-edit them some times. Like I entered accents at the 'terse list description' and after 2-3 edit (I didn't watch) accents became \\236 and like... something to fix...? 2) I still don't know Python deep enough to decide whether this is possible, but it would be really nice that when the program panics with error, it would check the last line for variables and would dump their values as well. If it's an interpreted language it could possibly be done, and would really help to see what happened. (This occured to me when I looked with a dumb face at the message "Assertion error", being unable to decide what happened because didn't know the contents of the variables.) As always, these are just ideas to consider or discard, and no way demands. :) bye, grin From scott@chronis.pobox.com Sat Nov 14 07:29:27 1998 From: scott@chronis.pobox.com (Scott) Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 02:29:27 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] scaling issues Message-ID: <19981114022927.56576@chronis.icgroup.com> I'm setting up a list for mailman that has 27k subscribers. Just wanted to note that the first scaling issue i ran into was mass subscribing the members. A process calling "ApprovedAddMember" for each member was called, ran for many many many hours on a solaris sparc box with 128m ram and only made it through 6k subscribers. so i added them by hand. This should be interesting, but hey, after it's all over, we will all know exactly what should be done to make mailman more scalable. scott From jerrya@fastrans.net Sat Nov 14 17:29:51 1998 From: jerrya@fastrans.net (Jerry Adlersfluegel) Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 11:29:51 -0600 (CST) Subject: [Mailman-Developers] /home/mailman/cron/senddigests In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Yes, I still get that. I figured it would go away with b6, but it is still there. On Fri, 13 Nov 1998, Corbett J. Klempay wrote: > Anyone seen this? I've been getting this every day for weeks. (happened > with b5 and now with b6) > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Corbett J. Klempay Quote of the Week: > http://www2.acm.jhu.edu/~cklempay "Conscience is the inner voice that > warns up that someone may be looking." > > PGP Fingerprint: 7DA2 DB6E 7F5E 8973 A8E7 347B 2429 7728 76C2 BEA1 > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 12:00:02 -0500 > From: Cron Daemon > To: mailman@chimera.acm.jhu.edu > Subject: Cron /usr/bin/python /home/mailman/cron/senddigests > > Traceback (innermost last): > File "/home/mailman/cron/senddigests", line 37, in ? > main() > File "/home/mailman/cron/senddigests", line 34, in main > list.SendDigestIfAny() > File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Digester.py", line 194, in SendDigestIfAny > self.SendDigestOnSize(0) > File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Digester.py", line 206, in SendDigestOnSize > self.SendDigest() > File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Digester.py", line 288, in SendDigest > self.DeliverToList(d.Present(mime=0), > File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Deliverer.py", line 133, in DeliverToList > status = cmdproc.close() > IOError: (10, 'No child processes') > > > _______________________________________________ > Mailman-Developers maillist - Mailman-Developers@python.org > http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers > -- Jerry Adlersfluegel From tomas@euronetics.se Sun Nov 15 15:58:05 1998 From: tomas@euronetics.se (Tomas Fasth) Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 16:58:05 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] mime decoded mail in the archieves? Message-ID: <005e01be10b0$bbd24240$f6d52dc1@bishop.twinspot.net> Hi Peter! There is a module called 'mimetools' which is part of standard python distribution. It's capable of parsing multipart messages and decode encoded headers and text parts. I don't know if it's already in use by Mailman. If not, it been there for a while waiting to be utilized. ;-) Tomas -----Original Message----- From: Peter Gervai To: MailMan Dev List Date: den 13 november 1998 23:31 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] mime decoded mail in the archieves? >The new beta is fantastic, I mean, hey, it works even for me! :-)) > >Archieving is pretty, but I realized that it does not handle the >MIME-encoded accented letters at all (or, at least, not when converting them >from the old archives). Since half of the users is not able to use a decent >mail software they don't use iso8859-2 but mime-encodeded iso8859-1: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > >Text looks like: "jelen=E9s=E9nek feladatait szervezi, ir=E1ny=EDtja" > >I - in my infinite lameness - suspect that writing a mime decoder wouldn't >be impossible. Could it be _simply_ done? It could be one step closer to >i18n but I don't know how much demand is there for that.... (Probably >national language archives should face the same problem?) > >cya, >grin > >_______________________________________________ >Mailman-Developers maillist - Mailman-Developers@python.org >http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers > From gstein@lyra.org Sun Nov 15 20:48:37 1998 From: gstein@lyra.org (Greg Stein) Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 12:48:37 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] [Fwd: Cron /usr/bin/python /home/mailman/install/cron/senddigests] Message-ID: <364F3E25.4D45E34E@lyra.org> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------5DCBD02767986AA253217640 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Anybody ever see this one? thx -g -- Greg Stein, http://www.lyra.org/ --------------5DCBD02767986AA253217640 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Received: from ns1.lyra.org (root@ns1.lyra.org [208.192.43.10]) by svpal.svpal.org (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id LAA24689 for ; Sun, 15 Nov 1998 11:52:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from cartman.lyra.org (cartman.lyra.org [208.192.43.15]) by ns1.lyra.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA09735 for ; Sun, 15 Nov 1998 12:00:16 -0800 Received: (from root@localhost) by cartman.lyra.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA19290 for mailman; Sun, 15 Nov 1998 12:00:03 -0800 Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 12:00:03 -0800 Message-Id: <199811152000.MAA19290@cartman.lyra.org> From: root@cartman.lyra.org (Cron Daemon) To: mailman@cartman.lyra.org Subject: Cron /usr/bin/python /home/mailman/install/cron/senddigests X-Cron-Env: X-Cron-Env: X-Cron-Env: X-Cron-Env: Traceback (innermost last): File "/home/mailman/install/cron/senddigests", line 37, in ? main() File "/home/mailman/install/cron/senddigests", line 34, in main list.SendDigestIfAny() File "/home/mailman/install/Mailman/Digester.py", line 194, in SendDigestIfAny self.SendDigestOnSize(0) File "/home/mailman/install/Mailman/Digester.py", line 206, in SendDigestOnSize self.SendDigest() File "/home/mailman/install/Mailman/Digester.py", line 291, in SendDigest self.DeliverToList(d.Present(mime=1), File "/home/mailman/install/Mailman/Deliverer.py", line 133, in DeliverToList status = cmdproc.close() IOError: (10, 'No child processes') --------------5DCBD02767986AA253217640-- From bwarsaw@cnri.reston.va.us (Barry A. Warsaw) Mon Nov 16 19:32:30 1998 From: bwarsaw@cnri.reston.va.us (Barry A. Warsaw) (Barry A. Warsaw) Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 14:32:30 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Internationalization References: Message-ID: <13904.32206.326036.696607@anthem.cnri.reston.va.us> I was away at the Python conference all last week, so it's nice to see there are only about 113 Mailman messages to catch up on :-). I will say that I thought Ken's talk went well, and we certainly had a lot of interest from Pythoneers about Mailman. We had a lot of interesting off-line discussions about where Mailman is and where it could go. The following are my thoughts on what we need to do in the short term. I would like to have a stable 1.0 release by the time of the Usenix LISA 98 conference, where we have another paper and where John will (hopefully) be giving a talk. This isn't very far away so I feel we need to be *really* conservative in what we try to do before then. I agree with John that internationalizing Mailman should be a top priority, but I don't really think we can make much headway in the next 3 weeks or so. In my experience CVS branches suck so I try to avoid them, but if other core developers have more confidence in them, I'll go along for the ride. I think we should shoot for NO new features, but just banging the hell out of the current source tree, expecting to have all the current bugs shaken out in time for LISA. Once 1.0 is released, then we can talk about an architecture for supporting all the contributed translations. It's great to see there's a lot of enthusiasm for supporting languages other than English. -Barry From bwarsaw@cnri.reston.va.us (Barry A. Warsaw) Mon Nov 16 19:42:59 1998 From: bwarsaw@cnri.reston.va.us (Barry A. Warsaw) (Barry A. Warsaw) Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 14:42:59 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Mailman-Developers] b6 in and working...except archive access :( References: Message-ID: <13904.32835.757860.724906@anthem.cnri.reston.va.us> >>>>> "CJK" == Corbett J Klempay writes: CJK> Hey all..I just got b6 in, and after some finangling with the CJK> cgi-gid (for some reason, I have to tell it the number 99 CJK> instead of the word nobody (a look in /etc/group confirms CJK> that nobody == 99)..not sure what the story is with that, but CJK> it works now, so I'm not too worried) Please let me know if you're able to reproduce this. It certainly works for me: ./configure --prefix=/export/home/mailman --with-cgi-gid=nobody -Barry From bwarsaw@cnri.reston.va.us (Barry A. Warsaw) Mon Nov 16 20:44:33 1998 From: bwarsaw@cnri.reston.va.us (Barry A. Warsaw) (Barry A. Warsaw) Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 15:44:33 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Mailman-Developers] BUGS: URL vs file pathnames References: <36467135.53464EB3@lyra.org> Message-ID: <13904.36529.409783.884215@anthem.cnri.reston.va.us> >>>>> "GS" == Greg Stein writes: GS> Also, there is a general problem in the code with using GS> os.path.join to construct URLs. A URL is NOT a file path. You GS> don't want to use ":" or "\" if Mailman is run on a different GS> platform. The os.path.join should go away and string concat GS> should be used with "/". Shouldn't we be using urlparse.urljoin() for these? -Barry From gstein@lyra.org Tue Nov 17 03:18:41 1998 From: gstein@lyra.org (Greg Stein) Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 19:18:41 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] BUGS: URL vs file pathnames References: <36467135.53464EB3@lyra.org> <13904.36529.409783.884215@anthem.cnri.reston.va.us> Message-ID: <3650EB11.568A55A@lyra.org> Barry A. Warsaw wrote: > > >>>>> "GS" == Greg Stein writes: > > GS> Also, there is a general problem in the code with using > GS> os.path.join to construct URLs. A URL is NOT a file path. You > GS> don't want to use ":" or "\" if Mailman is run on a different > GS> platform. The os.path.join should go away and string concat > GS> should be used with "/". > > Shouldn't we be using urlparse.urljoin() for these? > > -Barry That would only be necessary if the second part is an unknown (possibly-absolute) URL. I wouldn't think it is necessary in this context. -g -- Greg Stein, http://www.lyra.org/ From bence@intercom.hu Tue Nov 17 12:52:55 1998 From: bence@intercom.hu (Hermann Benedek) Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 13:52:55 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Set digest via email, plain default Message-ID: <004301be1229$32db1410$2a3144c1@us-i2.intercom.hu> There are two problems with digest option in 1.0b6 (also this was a bug in ver 1.0b4 too). 1. I can't set digest mode via email. The 'set digest on pw' command returns with 'succeeded', but the next 'options' command shows, that digest is off. So, I can set digest mode only via the web. 2. When subscribing to digest, I receive the email in MIME. No matter which is the default format (mime/plain). I want the plain mode to be the default. Any patches? Bence From gorgo@caesar.elte.hu Tue Nov 17 20:00:36 1998 From: gorgo@caesar.elte.hu (Gergely Madarasz) Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 21:00:36 +0100 (MET) Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Set digest via email, plain default In-Reply-To: <004301be1229$32db1410$2a3144c1@us-i2.intercom.hu> Message-ID: This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text, while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools. Send mail to mime@docserver.cac.washington.edu for more info. ---1649071771-1887724716-911332836=:52754 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Tue, 17 Nov 1998, Hermann Benedek wrote: > 2. When subscribing to digest, I receive the email in MIME. No > matter which is the default format (mime/plain). I want the plain > mode to be the default. Here is a patch attached. -- Madarasz Gergely gorgo@caesar.elte.hu gorgo@linux.rulez.org It's practically impossible to look at a penguin and feel angry. Egy pingvinre gyakorlatilag lehetetlen haragosan nezni. HuLUG: http://mlf.linux.rulez.org/ ---1649071771-1887724716-911332836=:52754 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; name="digest.diff" Content-Transfer-Encoding: BASE64 Content-ID: Content-Description: LS0tIE1haWxMaXN0LnB5fglXZWQgTm92IDExIDIzOjI2OjA1IDE5OTgNCisr KyBNYWlsTGlzdC5weQlUdWUgTm92IDE3IDIwOjM3OjUyIDE5OTgNCkBAIC03 NzAsNiArNzcwLDcgQEANCiAJZWxzZToNCiAJICAgIHNlbGYubWVtYmVycy5h cHBlbmQobmFtZSkNCiAgICAgICAgICAgICBraW5kID0gIiINCisgICAgICAg IHNlbGYuU2V0VXNlck9wdGlvbihuYW1lLG1tX2NmZy5EaXNhYmxlTWltZSwx LXNlbGYubWltZV9pc19kZWZhdWx0X2RpZ2VzdCkNCiAgICAgICAgIHNlbGYu TG9nTXNnKCJzdWJzY3JpYmUiLCAiJXM6IG5ldyVzICVzIiwNCiAgICAgICAg ICAgICAgICAgICAgIHNlbGYuX2ludGVybmFsX25hbWUsIGtpbmQsIG5hbWUp DQogCXNlbGYucGFzc3dvcmRzW25hbWVdID0gcGFzc3dvcmQNCg== ---1649071771-1887724716-911332836=:52754-- From klm@python.org Tue Nov 17 21:16:18 1998 From: klm@python.org (Ken Manheimer) Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 16:16:18 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Set digest via email, plain default In-Reply-To: Message-ID: This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text, while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools. Send mail to mime@docserver.cac.washington.edu for more info. ---1649071771-1887724716-911332836=:52754 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-ID: On Tue, 17 Nov 1998, Gergely Madarasz wrote: > On Tue, 17 Nov 1998, Hermann Benedek wrote: > > > 2. When subscribing to digest, I receive the email in MIME. No > > matter which is the default format (mime/plain). I want the plain > > mode to be the default. > > Here is a patch attached. I've incorporated something like the patch, except that the setting is made whether or not the new user is starting in digest mode. The idea is that the initial setting is the one that will be offered on the options form, so the initial one should follow from the list default. Ken Manheimer klm@python.org 703 620-8990 x268 (orporation for National Research |nitiatives # If you appreciate Python, consider joining the PSA! # # . # ---1649071771-1887724716-911332836=:52754-- From scott@chronis.pobox.com Tue Nov 17 22:09:29 1998 From: scott@chronis.pobox.com (Scott) Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 17:09:29 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Mailman-Developers] cgi/mail delivery problem: an idea Message-ID: <19981117220929.4C931195F3@chronis.pobox.com> First I'd like to say sorry I've kindof dropped off keeping up with mailman over the last few days. I will come back, i've just been really busy with other stuff. At any rate, there's a problem with the way certain processes have to wait for the completion of delivery of a message (or even lotsa messages) before finishing. you'll note that mass subscribe, admindb, convert_list, and many other processes can trigger a mail delivery and that in many of those cases, waiting for the delivery causes problems (especially the cgi's). Here's an idea of how to deal with. i'm just bouncing this off everyone for now: add a mechanism that just queue's messages in mailman's mail queue, and let the run_queue cron job take care of it. some things to consider about this: 1) there's been talk of setting up mailman to allow command line delivery again (i'm all for this). we'd have to take that into account in run_queue. 2) the cgi's would no longer immediately make those deliveries, the deliveries would take place on the next cron job. this may not be entirely appropriate in some cases, like receiving a confirmation messages upon subscribing from the web. this is a problem that i believe should be addressed before v1 or whatever. what do y'all think? scott From julian7@kva.hu Wed Nov 18 00:15:31 1998 From: julian7@kva.hu (Balazs Nagy) Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 01:15:31 +0100 (CET) Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Internationalization In-Reply-To: <13904.32206.326036.696607@anthem.cnri.reston.va.us> Message-ID: On Mon, 16 Nov 1998, Barry A. Warsaw wrote: > The following are my thoughts on what we need to do in the short > term. I would like to have a stable 1.0 release by the time of the > Usenix LISA 98 conference, where we have another paper and where John > will (hopefully) be giving a talk. This isn't very far away so I feel > we need to be *really* conservative in what we try to do before then. Is this means MailMan got codeFreezeEvent()? ;) Iam sorry but now Iam hurry in writing the C++ code for my diploma work... > I think we should shoot for NO new features, but just banging the hell > out of the current source tree, expecting to have all the current bugs > shaken out in time for LISA. Once 1.0 is released, then we can talk > about an architecture for supporting all the contributed > translations. It's great to see there's a lot of enthusiasm for > supporting languages other than English. Well, I have a *lot* of stupid users who cannot get their password just because they don't understand MailMan's *Hungarian* error messages. By the way I like to see the code to be combed out, because I would like to hear some aims (for example global user data, archive functions via email, administration commands such as admin subscribe etc) what you want to do or not to do. After 1st December ;-) -- Linux Supporting Center -- Red Hat Qmail packages -- http://lsc.kva.hu PGP 0x1DE3631D / A8 B4 92 EE 1F 55 27 C8 86 64 9C 42 41 A4 BD B8 From bwarsaw@cnri.reston.va.us (Barry A. Warsaw) Tue Nov 17 23:30:18 1998 From: bwarsaw@cnri.reston.va.us (Barry A. Warsaw) (Barry A. Warsaw) Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 18:30:18 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Internationalization References: <13904.32206.326036.696607@anthem.cnri.reston.va.us> Message-ID: <13906.1802.865997.255839@anthem.cnri.reston.va.us> >>>>> "BN" == Balazs Nagy writes: BN> Is this means MailMan got codeFreezeEvent()? I hope so, but I'm not sure if the other core maintainers agree with me :-) BN> ;) Iam sorry but BN> now Iam hurry in writing the C++ code for my diploma work... Good luck! BN> Well, I have a *lot* of stupid users who cannot get their BN> password just because they don't understand MailMan's BN> *Hungarian* error messages. I understand (I think :-). Internationalization should be a priority for us after the 1.0 release. BN> By the way I like to see the code to be combed out, because I BN> would like to hear some aims (for example global user data, BN> archive functions via email, administration commands such as BN> admin subscribe etc) what you want to do or not to do. After BN> 1st December ;-) Well, I know that Ken and I have a lot of thoughts on where to go after 1.0. I think we might be having a core confab this weekend, and I'm hoping we'll get a chance to sit in front of a whiteboard and thrash about our ideas, and hopefully agree on a direction. Stay tuned. -Barry From gorgo@caesar.elte.hu Wed Nov 18 00:34:05 1998 From: gorgo@caesar.elte.hu (Gergely Madarasz) Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 01:34:05 +0100 (MET) Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Set digest via email, plain default In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 17 Nov 1998, Ken Manheimer wrote: > On Tue, 17 Nov 1998, Gergely Madarasz wrote: > > > On Tue, 17 Nov 1998, Hermann Benedek wrote: > > > > > 2. When subscribing to digest, I receive the email in MIME. No > > > matter which is the default format (mime/plain). I want the plain > > > mode to be the default. > > > > Here is a patch attached. > > I've incorporated something like the patch, except that the setting is > made whether or not the new user is starting in digest mode. The idea > is that the initial setting is the one that will be offered on the > options form, so the initial one should follow from the list default. Hmm... I thought my patch did this :) -- Madarasz Gergely gorgo@caesar.elte.hu gorgo@linux.rulez.org It's practically impossible to look at a penguin and feel angry. Egy pingvinre gyakorlatilag lehetetlen haragosan nezni. HuLUG: http://mlf.linux.rulez.org/ From gstein@lyra.org Wed Nov 18 00:54:06 1998 From: gstein@lyra.org (Greg Stein) Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 16:54:06 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] traceback while sending digests Message-ID: <36521AAE.3027B040@lyra.org> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------953083736D1E1B92BD1B245 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I sent this once before and didn't hear anything. I just got my third copy of this. Looking at the mailman-developers archive, it appears that others are getting it to. Can we get some kind of word on what the problem is? thx -g -- Greg Stein, http://www.lyra.org/ --------------953083736D1E1B92BD1B245 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Received: from ns1.lyra.org (root@ns1.lyra.org [208.192.43.10]) by svpal.svpal.org (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id LAA27797 for ; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 11:58:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from cartman.lyra.org (cartman.lyra.org [208.192.43.15]) by ns1.lyra.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA20978 for ; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 12:00:21 -0800 Received: (from root@localhost) by cartman.lyra.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA21642 for mailman; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 12:00:02 -0800 Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 12:00:02 -0800 Message-Id: <199811172000.MAA21642@cartman.lyra.org> From: root@cartman.lyra.org (Cron Daemon) To: mailman@cartman.lyra.org Subject: Cron /usr/bin/python /home/mailman/install/cron/senddigests X-Cron-Env: X-Cron-Env: X-Cron-Env: X-Cron-Env: Traceback (innermost last): File "/home/mailman/install/cron/senddigests", line 37, in ? main() File "/home/mailman/install/cron/senddigests", line 34, in main list.SendDigestIfAny() File "/home/mailman/install/Mailman/Digester.py", line 194, in SendDigestIfAny self.SendDigestOnSize(0) File "/home/mailman/install/Mailman/Digester.py", line 206, in SendDigestOnSize self.SendDigest() File "/home/mailman/install/Mailman/Digester.py", line 291, in SendDigest self.DeliverToList(d.Present(mime=1), File "/home/mailman/install/Mailman/Deliverer.py", line 133, in DeliverToList status = cmdproc.close() IOError: (10, 'No child processes') --------------953083736D1E1B92BD1B245-- From scott@chronis.pobox.com Wed Nov 18 03:00:45 1998 From: scott@chronis.pobox.com (Scott) Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 22:00:45 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] traceback while sending digests In-Reply-To: <36521AAE.3027B040@lyra.org>; from Greg Stein on Tue, Nov 17, 1998 at 04:54:06PM -0800 References: <36521AAE.3027B040@lyra.org> Message-ID: <19981117220045.42017@chronis.icgroup.com> On Tue, Nov 17, 1998 at 04:54:06PM -0800, Greg Stein wrote: | I sent this once before and didn't hear anything. I just got my third | copy of this. Looking at the mailman-developers archive, it appears that | others are getting it to. | | Can we get some kind of word on what the problem is? | sorry i haven't had time to be more responsive. i've got a lot of other work on my hands at the moment, so i'll throw in my best educated guess instead of a thorough analysis, and hope it helps. First off, i believe that this problem is either system dependent or showing itself through list configs that i don't have. i'm not seeing this under linux or solaris2.5.1, and both installations have taken a bit of a beating. secondly, this problem probably results from calling os.popen(, "w") where does this right off the bat: if not os.fork(): # do the work os._exit(0) the way i understand os._exit(0) is that it should only be used for child processes, not parent processes, when a fork() is done. Perhaps there are some underlying things in the system or list configs which cause the parent program to exit before the child is done reading stdin. at any rate, if those who are experiencing this problem could try replacing the os._exit(0) in the function "main()" in scripts/deliver with "sys.exit(0)" or some such, this *might* fix the problem. I *think* that should be changed anyway, but could be mistaken. that's my best educated guess. if it don't help, i hope to be able to address more of this later this week, but can't promise anything yet. good luck, scott | thx | -g | | -- | Greg Stein, http://www.lyra.org/ | Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 12:00:02 -0800 | From: root@cartman.lyra.org (Cron Daemon) | To: mailman@cartman.lyra.org | Subject: Cron /usr/bin/python /home/mailman/install/cron/senddigests | X-Cron-Env: | X-Cron-Env: | X-Cron-Env: | X-Cron-Env: | | Traceback (innermost last): | File "/home/mailman/install/cron/senddigests", line 37, in ? | main() | File "/home/mailman/install/cron/senddigests", line 34, in main | list.SendDigestIfAny() | File "/home/mailman/install/Mailman/Digester.py", line 194, in SendDigestIfAny | self.SendDigestOnSize(0) | File "/home/mailman/install/Mailman/Digester.py", line 206, in SendDigestOnSize | self.SendDigest() | File "/home/mailman/install/Mailman/Digester.py", line 291, in SendDigest | self.DeliverToList(d.Present(mime=1), | File "/home/mailman/install/Mailman/Deliverer.py", line 133, in DeliverToList | status = cmdproc.close() | IOError: (10, 'No child processes') | From klm@python.org Wed Nov 18 16:12:06 1998 From: klm@python.org (Ken Manheimer) Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 11:12:06 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Set digest via email, plain default In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 18 Nov 1998, Gergely Madarasz wrote: > On Tue, 17 Nov 1998, Ken Manheimer wrote: > > > I've incorporated something like the patch, except that the setting is > > made whether or not the new user is starting in digest mode. The idea > > is that the initial setting is the one that will be offered on the > > options form, so the initial one should follow from the list default. > > Hmm... I thought my patch did this :) My mistake - my mail reader folded the line, and i mistook where the indentation went. In any case, i should have said before - thanks for the fix! Ken From gstein@lyra.org Thu Nov 19 02:32:17 1998 From: gstein@lyra.org (Greg Stein) Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 18:32:17 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Loop error (read: take out your machine) Message-ID: <36538331.59119B5D@lyra.org> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------6264A394769C943610B3D561 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit If a user submits a subscription request where the name does not include a fully-qualified domain name, then everything blows up hard. Mailman fails to recognize the bounce properly, attempts to parse it, fails, sends a response, that bounces, it parses, it replies... BLAM. Your machine's load average skyrockets and your mail queue starts to explode. Even worse is that it doesn't terminate. I had to shut down the sendmail listener, clean the mail queue, and clear mailman's pending mail queue. You also have to watch out from cron in case it tells mailman to process its queue :-). Back in August, this bug took out my system (had to reset and cold boot). Happened again today, but I was able to catch it after about 15 minutes of grinding. I've also since adjusted my since to queue at a lower load average (so that I can actually get a time slice and some virtual mem while I correct the problem). Is there a tweak that I can apply to the bounce detection to fix the loop? thx -g -- Greg Stein, http://www.lyra.org/ --------------6264A394769C943610B3D561 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Received: from ns1.lyra.org (root@ns1.lyra.org [208.192.43.10]) by svpal.svpal.org (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id LAA29777 for ; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 11:00:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by ns1.lyra.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id LAA28442 for ; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 11:02:19 -0800 Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 11:02:17 -0800 (PST) From: root To: gstein@lyra.org Subject: Mailman results for Hognews (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 10:10:25 -0800 From: hognews-request@eastsideharley.com To: mailer-daemon@ns1.lyra.org Subject: Mailman results for Hognews **** Subject line ignored: Returned mail: ... User unknown >>>> This is a MIME-encapsulated message **** this: Command UNKNOWN. >>>> --KAB26510.911412616/ns1.lyra.org **** --kab26510.911412616/ns1.lyra.org: Command UNKNOWN. >>>> The original message was received at Wed, 18 Nov 1998 10:10:15 -0800 **** the: Command UNKNOWN. >>>> from localhost [127.0.0.1] **** from: Command UNKNOWN. >>>> ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors ----- **** -----: Command UNKNOWN. >>>> **** : Command UNKNOWN. >>>> ----- Transcript of session follows ----- **** -----: Command UNKNOWN. >>>> <<< RCPT TO: **** <<<: Command UNKNOWN. >>>> 550 ... User unknown **** 550: Command UNKNOWN. >>>> 421 ns1.lyra.org Lost input channel from localhost [127..0.0.1] **** 421: Command UNKNOWN. >>>> ns1.lyra.org Lost input channel from localhost [127.0.0.1] **** ns1.lyra.org: Command UNKNOWN. >>>> --KAB26510.911412616/ns1.lyra.org **** --kab26510.911412616/ns1.lyra.org: Command UNKNOWN. >>>> Content-Type: message/delivery-status **** content-type:: Command UNKNOWN. >>>> Reporting-MTA: dns; ns1.lyra.org **** reporting-mta:: Command UNKNOWN. >>>> Received-From-MTA: DNS; localhost **** received-from-mta:: Command UNKNOWN. >>>> Arrival-Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 10:10:15 -0800 **** arrival-date:: Command UNKNOWN. >>>> Final-Recipient: RFC822; crab51@ns1.lyra.org **** final-recipient:: Command UNKNOWN. >>>> Action: failed **** action:: Command UNKNOWN. >>>> Status: 5.1.1 **** status:: Command UNKNOWN. >>>> Last-Attempt-Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 10:10:17 -0800 **** last-attempt-date:: Command UNKNOWN. >>>> --KAB26510.911412616/ns1.lyra.org-- **** --kab26510.911412616/ns1.lyra.org--: Command UNKNOWN. --------------6264A394769C943610B3D561-- From gorgo@caesar.elte.hu Fri Nov 20 23:23:15 1998 From: gorgo@caesar.elte.hu (Gergely Madarasz) Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 00:23:15 +0100 (MET) Subject: [Mailman-Developers] bounce detection Message-ID: Hello! Anyone working on setting up the bounce detector for qmail/exim error messages ? I can send examples. -- Madarasz Gergely gorgo@caesar.elte.hu gorgo@linux.rulez.org It's practically impossible to look at a penguin and feel angry. Egy pingvinre gyakorlatilag lehetetlen haragosan nezni. HuLUG: http://mlf.linux.rulez.org/ From scott@chronis.pobox.com Sat Nov 21 15:36:59 1998 From: scott@chronis.pobox.com (Scott) Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 10:36:59 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] liststar mailling list manager Message-ID: <19981121103659.58358@chronis.icgroup.com> From the web site, it looks pretty nice.... http://www.nausicaa.net/~listar/ scott From Olivier.Salaun@cru.fr Mon Nov 23 14:27:22 1998 From: Olivier.Salaun@cru.fr (Olivier Salaun - CRU) Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 15:27:22 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Re: Mailman-Developers digest, Vol 1 #166 - 2 msgs In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sat, 21 Nov 1998 12:00:10 EST." <199811211700.MAA14508@python.org> Message-ID: <199811231427.PAA22207@home.cru.fr> > Anyone working on setting up the bounce detector for qmail/exim error > messages ? I can send examples. I developed such a bounce manager, AnaBounce. It recognises Exim and othere MTA's bounce formats. Bounces are analysed, classified (by level of recognition). A CGI gives access to results and makes it possible to unsubscribe bad addresses from the list (provided that the list is managed with SYMPA). I haven't translated the README in english yet..... ftp://ftp.cru.fr/pub/cru/Listes/anabounce/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Olivier SALAÜN Comité Réseau des Universités Tel: 02 99 84 71 27 Campus de Beaulieu 35042 Rennes Cedex Francopholistes http://www.cru.fr/listes/ From Harald.Meland@usit.uio.no Sun Nov 29 21:32:07 1998 From: Harald.Meland@usit.uio.no (Harald Meland) Date: 29 Nov 1998 22:32:07 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Sender: header duplication Message-ID: This is a MIME multipart message. If you are reading this, you shouldn't. --=-=-= Currently, whenever Mailman delivers a message to a list, a list-specific `Sender' header is appended. As RFC822 specifies that there should only be at most `Sender' header in any message, appending is not right if there already is such a header present (e.g. whenever the senders MUA added a `Sender' header). The included (untested, but simplistic) patch (against current CVS Mailman) tries to fix this. [ However, I suspect my patch might not work for messages already containing multiple `Sender' headers when Mailman receives them, as Message.SetHeader doesn't appear to really be "crushing duplicates" in those cases. ] To cater for umbrella lists, similar fixes should probably be applied to the `Errors-To' and `X-Mailman-Version' header appending in Mailman.Deliverer.DeliverToList(). -- Harald --=-=-= --- Mailman/Deliverer.py.orig Sun Nov 29 22:12:12 1998 +++ Mailman/Deliverer.py Sun Nov 29 22:11:17 1998 @@ -110,7 +110,7 @@ if self.reply_goes_to_list: del msg['reply-to'] msg.headers.append('Reply-To: %s\n' % self.GetListEmail()) - msg.headers.append('Sender: %s\n' % self.GetAdminEmail()) + msg.SetHeader('Sender', self.GetAdminEmail()) if not msg.getheader('list-id'): msg.headers.append('List-Id: %s\n' % self.GetListIdentifier()) msg.headers.append('Errors-To: %s\n' % self.GetAdminEmail()) --=-=-=-- From klm@python.org Sun Nov 1 16:55:24 1998 From: klm@python.org (Ken Manheimer) Date: Sun, 1 Nov 1998 11:55:24 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Mailman-Developers] looking for stats Message-ID: <13884.36622.766284.594232@glyph.cnri.reston.va.us> Hi, all. I'm going to be presenting a paper on mailman at the python conference in a couple of weeks, and i'd like to be able to answer the inevitable questions along the lines of, "how big a list is being run with mailman?" So i'd like to hear from you if you think you have some really big lists, or an otherwise interesting situation where you're using mailman. (I just ran the mailpasswds script by hand, with some gratuitous printing to see how many distinct subscribers, and we have around 2000 valid, distinct recipients, distributed over 33 lists. The largest individual list is probably jpython-interest, with around 450 members. Hmm - on a sparc 5 running solaris, the passwords job took around 1 hour to run - with 15 seconds total for doing the consolidation of all subscriptions for each address, the rest for sending out the notices.) Ken From John@list.org Mon Nov 2 00:38:56 1998 From: John@list.org (John Viega) Date: Sun, 1 Nov 1998 16:38:56 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] looking for stats In-Reply-To: <13884.36622.766284.594232@glyph.cnri.reston.va.us>; from Ken Manheimer on Sun, Nov 01, 1998 at 11:55:24AM -0500 References: <13884.36622.766284.594232@glyph.cnri.reston.va.us> Message-ID: <19981101163856.A2561@viega.org> Depending on the time of year, the Dave Matthews Band mailing list has anywhere from 1500 to 3000 subscribers, where generally 2/3 are digested and 1/3 get every message. I would say there are also a good 80 messages a day year round. I know of a couple of low traffic announcement lists with up to 6K people, but that's not a heavy traffic load. John On Sun, Nov 01, 1998 at 11:55:24AM -0500, Ken Manheimer wrote: > Hi, all. I'm going to be presenting a paper on mailman at the python > conference in a couple of weeks, and i'd like to be able to answer the > inevitable questions along the lines of, "how big a list is being run > with mailman?" So i'd like to hear from you if you think you have > some really big lists, or an otherwise interesting situation where > you're using mailman. From dragondm@delta.integral.org Mon Nov 2 12:56:41 1998 From: dragondm@delta.integral.org (The Dragon De Monsyne) Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 06:56:41 -0600 (CST) Subject: [Mailman-Developers] looking for stats In-Reply-To: <13884.36622.766284.594232@glyph.cnri.reston.va.us> Message-ID: On Sun, 1 Nov 1998, Ken Manheimer wrote: > Hi, all. I'm going to be presenting a paper on mailman at the python > conference in a couple of weeks, and i'd like to be able to answer the > inevitable questions along the lines of, "how big a list is being run > with mailman?" So i'd like to hear from you if you think you have > some really big lists, or an otherwise interesting situation where > you're using mailman. Ok, I did a rough check, and lists.integral.org has approx 1000 distinct addresses distributed over 6 lists, with the largest being a net-fiction list with 660 subscribers. That list receives 20-45 posts per day. Also, since it is a story list, most of the posts are stories avg'g 20 - 40KB. Our most impressive stat is our web-archives, since the back archives of two long running lists were added into the mailman archives when the lists were converted to mailman. The web-archives contain a total of 300MB, consisting of 36,000 messages. -The Dragon De Monsyne From klm@python.org Sat Nov 7 17:13:19 1998 From: klm@python.org (Ken Manheimer) Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 12:13:19 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Mailman-Developers] mailman's own archives In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 7 Nov 1998, Darren Henderson wrote: > Mailman's archives at python.org appear to have stopped on 11/2. Something > to do with the switch to the new version? Yes! I installed to a different location, and once i was satisfied it was working i decoupled the dynamic stuff (list dbs, archives, locks, etc) - neglecting to consider that the external pipermail archiver we're still using was still looking at the old place. For now i'm using a symlink to keep the external pipermail happy - if i'm right, the archives should catch up the next time the job is run. (When i return from the conference i'll use whatever mechanisms we have - or will have, i'm not sure myself - for processing accumulations in preexisting mbox files. Since scott and john will be around during the conference, one of them will probably speak to these issues...) Ken From klm@python.org Sat Nov 7 17:25:21 1998 From: klm@python.org (Ken Manheimer) Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 12:25:21 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Mailman-Developers] mailman's own archives In-Reply-To: <19981107021433.39368@chronis.icgroup.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 7 Nov 1998, Scott wrote: > Dont think those guys have upgraded their site yet. I doubt we'll see > them updated till the weekend's over, though. (Sorta in between - the bottom of the pages say 1.0b6, 'cause someone incremented the version number between releases, but it's before all the archiving stuff got worked out, so i have the internal pipermail archiving off.) (Ken) From jeff@ollie.clive.ia.us Sat Nov 7 17:38:29 1998 From: jeff@ollie.clive.ia.us (Jeffrey C. Ollie) Date: Sat, 07 Nov 1998 11:38:29 -0600 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] CVS Problem? Message-ID: <36448595.C44851A8@ollie.clive.ia.us> This is a cryptographically signed message in MIME format. --------------msAED0B3B2E73CFE6886B29376 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hmmm... while trying to do a "cvs update" I ran into the following problem. This error occurs even if I start fresh. max $ date Sat Nov 7 11:32:14 CST 1998 max $ cvs --version Concurrent Versions System (CVS) 1.10.3 (client/server) [...] max $ cvs -z6 update -d -P [...] cvs server: Updating doc cvs server: Updating doc/IPC7 cvs server: failed to create lock directory in repository `/projects/cvsroot/mailman/doc/IPC7': Permission denied cvs server: failed to obtain dir lock in repository `/projects/cvsroot/mailman/doc/IPC7' cvs [server aborted]: read lock failed - giving up --------------msAED0B3B2E73CFE6886B29376 Content-Type: application/x-pkcs7-signature; name="smime.p7s" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="smime.p7s" Content-Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature MIIJ6AYJKoZIhvcNAQcCoIIJ2TCCCdUCAQExCzAJBgUrDgMCGgUAMAsGCSqGSIb3DQEHAaCC B3QwggQ+MIIDp6ADAgECAhAH45KMD5ppjHBDd8plU0arMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBBAUAMIHMMRcw FQYDVQQKEw5WZXJpU2lnbiwgSW5jLjEfMB0GA1UECxMWVmVyaVNpZ24gVHJ1c3QgTmV0d29y azFGMEQGA1UECxM9d3d3LnZlcmlzaWduLmNvbS9yZXBvc2l0b3J5L1JQQSBJbmNvcnAuIEJ5 IFJlZi4sTElBQi5MVEQoYyk5ODFIMEYGA1UEAxM/VmVyaVNpZ24gQ2xhc3MgMSBDQSBJbmRp dmlkdWFsIFN1YnNjcmliZXItUGVyc29uYSBOb3QgVmFsaWRhdGVkMB4XDTk4MTAwMjAwMDAw MFoXDTk5MTAwMjIzNTk1OVowggEWMRcwFQYDVQQKEw5WZXJpU2lnbiwgSW5jLjEfMB0GA1UE CxMWVmVyaVNpZ24gVHJ1c3QgTmV0d29yazFGMEQGA1UECxM9d3d3LnZlcmlzaWduLmNvbS9y ZXBvc2l0b3J5L1JQQSBJbmNvcnAuIGJ5IFJlZi4sTElBQi5MVEQoYyk5ODEeMBwGA1UECxMV UGVyc29uYSBOb3QgVmFsaWRhdGVkMTMwMQYDVQQLEypEaWdpdGFsIElEIENsYXNzIDEgLSBO ZXRzY2FwZSBGdWxsIFNlcnZpY2UxFjAUBgNVBAMUDUplZmZyZXkgT2xsaWUxJTAjBgkqhkiG 9w0BCQEWFmplZmZAb2xsaWUuY2xpdmUuaWEudXMwgZ8wDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEBBQADgY0AMIGJ AoGBALznR/JfeMFeOL38y5n0N48TKu+pvfHuCa4mNMTl0/Im7S+rqGMc33+8SkjTUAik31nq iCNV2rSkcoegAkl3Ap0R5vEavmBA+v3PKKoDtl4jlhItCUlFxYqTMZ/sv43NbJ7O8EzJNs4s gcG4uqMqLcY4ASjpIdDk+Uy75j7kW+VHAgMBAAGjgdMwgdAwCQYDVR0TBAIwADCBrwYDVR0g BIGnMIAwgAYLYIZIAYb4RQEHAQEwgDAoBggrBgEFBQcCARYcaHR0cHM6Ly93d3cudmVyaXNp Z24uY29tL0NQUzBiBggrBgEFBQcCAjBWMBUWDlZlcmlTaWduLCBJbmMuMAMCAQEaPVZlcmlT aWduJ3MgQ1BTIGluY29ycC4gYnkgcmVmZXJlbmNlIGxpYWIuIGx0ZC4gKGMpOTcgVmVyaVNp Z24AAAAAAAAwEQYJYIZIAYb4QgEBBAQDAgeAMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBBAUAA4GBAEPk6HE6JHjs dKTRSz5YCSD5mj1zzeTo0MMWPB17NuUvssI6iCndVzzVxgwfsRGymWjTv6wijb0NlZ4HpkKW WY5v34W3775MLT+dO5N854iJJ6l5Ym2RVUPkkwGyCKElMoO6ds67fTIj/2u2ZjURZtzxoMwb ZFA+s6XT1rNEcZRsMIIDLjCCApegAwIBAgIRANJ2Lo0UDD19sqglXa/uDXUwDQYJKoZIhvcN AQECBQAwXzELMAkGA1UEBhMCVVMxFzAVBgNVBAoTDlZlcmlTaWduLCBJbmMuMTcwNQYDVQQL Ey5DbGFzcyAxIFB1YmxpYyBQcmltYXJ5IENlcnRpZmljYXRpb24gQXV0aG9yaXR5MB4XDTk4 MDUxMjAwMDAwMFoXDTA4MDUxMjIzNTk1OVowgcwxFzAVBgNVBAoTDlZlcmlTaWduLCBJbmMu MR8wHQYDVQQLExZWZXJpU2lnbiBUcnVzdCBOZXR3b3JrMUYwRAYDVQQLEz13d3cudmVyaXNp Z24uY29tL3JlcG9zaXRvcnkvUlBBIEluY29ycC4gQnkgUmVmLixMSUFCLkxURChjKTk4MUgw RgYDVQQDEz9WZXJpU2lnbiBDbGFzcyAxIENBIEluZGl2aWR1YWwgU3Vic2NyaWJlci1QZXJz b25hIE5vdCBWYWxpZGF0ZWQwgZ8wDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEBBQADgY0AMIGJAoGBALtaRIoEFrtV /QN6ii2UTxV4NrgNSrJvnFS/vOh3Kp258Gi7ldkxQXB6gUu5SBNWLccI4YRCq8CikqtEXKpC 8IIOAukv+8I7u77JJwpdtrA2QjO1blSIT4dKvxna+RXoD4e2HOPMxpqOf2okkuP84GW6p7F+ 78nbN2rISsgJBuSZAgMBAAGjfDB6MBEGCWCGSAGG+EIBAQQEAwIBBjBHBgNVHSAEQDA+MDwG C2CGSAGG+EUBBwEBMC0wKwYIKwYBBQUHAgEWH3d3dy52ZXJpc2lnbi5jb20vcmVwb3NpdG9y eS9SUEEwDwYDVR0TBAgwBgEB/wIBADALBgNVHQ8EBAMCAQYwDQYJKoZIhvcNAQECBQADgYEA iLg3O93alDcAraqf4YEBcR6Sam0v9vGd08pkONwbmAwHhluFFWoPuUmFpJXxF31ntH8tLN2a Qp7DPrSOquULBt7yVir6M8e+GddTTMO9yOMXtaRJQmPswqYXD11YGkk8kFxVo2UgAP0YIOVf gqaxqJLFWGrBjQM868PNBaKQrm4xggI8MIICOAIBATCB4TCBzDEXMBUGA1UEChMOVmVyaVNp Z24sIEluYy4xHzAdBgNVBAsTFlZlcmlTaWduIFRydXN0IE5ldHdvcmsxRjBEBgNVBAsTPXd3 dy52ZXJpc2lnbi5jb20vcmVwb3NpdG9yeS9SUEEgSW5jb3JwLiBCeSBSZWYuLExJQUIuTFRE KGMpOTgxSDBGBgNVBAMTP1ZlcmlTaWduIENsYXNzIDEgQ0EgSW5kaXZpZHVhbCBTdWJzY3Jp YmVyLVBlcnNvbmEgTm90IFZhbGlkYXRlZAIQB+OSjA+aaYxwQ3fKZVNGqzAJBgUrDgMCGgUA oIGxMBgGCSqGSIb3DQEJAzELBgkqhkiG9w0BBwEwHAYJKoZIhvcNAQkFMQ8XDTk4MTEwNzE3 MzgzMVowIwYJKoZIhvcNAQkEMRYEFFTWIBKsMfXtf4vZSF0Q5F0kT97bMFIGCSqGSIb3DQEJ DzFFMEMwCgYIKoZIhvcNAwcwDgYIKoZIhvcNAwICAgCAMAcGBSsOAwIHMA0GCCqGSIb3DQMC AgFAMA0GCCqGSIb3DQMCAgEoMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBAQUABIGAGlFO+IIYFoI4X36/m/KrDfKc 1NmE2bZ4ZXEpvOXjFJW/Z44Hym1QXzXS67j8fsNqJbuPyj91smzDWOphhLTEWHblfpH/6xv2 acraMDbXamWQ5IGiZsXg78UbRRu7rLY54lWpanpyHOdgsqtpEUi+WBwKRMciqrNf3+vNcWPD 6Jg= --------------msAED0B3B2E73CFE6886B29376-- From John@list.org Sat Nov 7 22:24:20 1998 From: John@list.org (John Viega) Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 14:24:20 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Mailman 1.0b6 Message-ID: <19981107142420.C25554@viega.org> Ok, 1.0b6 is finally done. I needed some info from Barry, and he sent it this morning, then I wasn't around until a little while ago. I'm going to hold off about a day on a more widespread announcement, just to make sure you guys don't find any big show-stoppers that we missed. You can get it off the home page (http://www.list.org), or at: ftp://list.org/pub/mailman/mailman-1.0b6.tar.gz New in b6: - Archiving is (finally) back in. - Administrivia filter added. - Mail queue mechanism revamped with better concurrency control. - For recipients that have estmp MTAs, set delivery notification status so that only delivery failure notices are sent out, inhibiting 4 hour and N day warning notices. - Now expire old unconfirmed subscription requests, rather than keeping them forever. - Added proposed standard List-Id: header, and our own X-MailmanVersion header. - Prevent havoc from attempts to subscribe a list to itself. (!) - Refine mail command processing to prevent loops. - Pending subscription DB redone with better locking and cleaner interface. - posters functionality expanded. - Subcsription policy more flexible, sensible, and site-configurable. - Various and sundry bug fixes. John From bwarsaw@cnri.reston.va.us (Barry A. Warsaw) Sat Nov 7 22:51:35 1998 From: bwarsaw@cnri.reston.va.us (Barry A. Warsaw) (Barry A. Warsaw) Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 17:51:35 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Mailman-Developers] CVS Problem? References: <36448595.C44851A8@ollie.clive.ia.us> Message-ID: <13892.52983.47756.611702@anthem.cnri.reston.va.us> >>>>> "JCO" == Jeffrey C Ollie writes: JCO> Hmmm... while trying to do a "cvs update" I ran into the JCO> following problem. This error occurs even if I start fresh. Try it now. From cklempay@acm.jhu.edu Sun Nov 8 02:18:47 1998 From: cklempay@acm.jhu.edu (Corbett J. Klempay) Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 21:18:47 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Mailman-Developers] b6 in and working...except archive access :( Message-ID: Hey all..I just got b6 in, and after some finangling with the cgi-gid (for some reason, I have to tell it the number 99 instead of the word nobody (a look in /etc/group confirms that nobody == 99)..not sure what the story is with that, but it works now, so I'm not too worried) Anyway, everything seems to be working fine...except accessing the archives. I was upgrading from b5, so I ran 'make update' and it converted everything all fine and dandy. When I try to link to a list's archives (public archives; don't have any private ones set up), I get Forbidden You don't have permission to access /pipermail/tm on this server. I was sure to add the ScriptAlias line to Apache's srm.conf file, so that's there. The permissions on the /home/mailman/archives/ dirs look like: [root@chimera archives]# ls -l total 2 drwxrws--x 10 root mailman 1024 Nov 7 20:06 private drwxrwsr-x 2 root mailman 1024 Nov 7 20:06 public [root@chimera archives]# Any ideas? Other than this, all seems kosher! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Corbett J. Klempay Quote of the Week: http://www2.acm.jhu.edu/~cklempay "Conscience is the inner voice that warns up that someone may be looking." PGP Fingerprint: 7DA2 DB6E 7F5E 8973 A8E7 347B 2429 7728 76C2 BEA1 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From scott@chronis.pobox.com Sun Nov 8 02:17:42 1998 From: scott@chronis.pobox.com (Scott) Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 21:17:42 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] b6 in and working...except archive access :( In-Reply-To: ; from Corbett J. Klempay on Sat, Nov 07, 1998 at 09:18:47PM -0500 References: Message-ID: <19981107211742.53664@chronis.icgroup.com> You probably need to set the option FollowSymlinks in the web server for the /home/mailman/archives/public dirctory. In apache, this look slike this: Alias /pipermail $prefix/archvies/public Options FollowSymLinks scott On Sat, Nov 07, 1998 at 09:18:47PM -0500, Corbett J. Klempay wrote: | Hey all..I just got b6 in, and after some finangling with the cgi-gid (for | some reason, I have to tell it the number 99 instead of the word | nobody (a look in /etc/group confirms that nobody == 99)..not sure what | the story is with that, but it works now, so I'm not too worried) | | Anyway, everything seems to be working fine...except accessing the | archives. I was upgrading from b5, so I ran 'make update' and it | converted everything all fine and dandy. When I try to link to a list's | archives (public archives; don't have any private ones set up), I get | | Forbidden | | You don't have permission to access /pipermail/tm on this server. | | I was sure to add the ScriptAlias line to Apache's srm.conf file, so | that's there. The permissions on the /home/mailman/archives/ dirs look | like: | | [root@chimera archives]# ls -l | total 2 | drwxrws--x 10 root mailman 1024 Nov 7 20:06 private | drwxrwsr-x 2 root mailman 1024 Nov 7 20:06 public | [root@chimera archives]# | | Any ideas? Other than this, all seems kosher! | | ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ | Corbett J. Klempay Quote of the Week: | http://www2.acm.jhu.edu/~cklempay "Conscience is the inner voice that | warns up that someone may be looking." | | PGP Fingerprint: 7DA2 DB6E 7F5E 8973 A8E7 347B 2429 7728 76C2 BEA1 | ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ | | | _______________________________________________ | Mailman-Developers maillist - Mailman-Developers@python.org | http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers | From cklempay@acm.jhu.edu Sun Nov 8 02:43:15 1998 From: cklempay@acm.jhu.edu (Corbett J. Klempay) Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 21:43:15 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Mailman-Developers] b6 in and working...except archive access :( In-Reply-To: <19981107211742.53664@chronis.icgroup.com> Message-ID: Huh. I added Alias /pipermail/ /home/mailman/archvies/public/ to the srm.conf file and then added # below added 11.07.98 by CJK for mailman 1.0b6 Options FollowSymLinks to access.conf and restarted httpd and got: Not Found The requested URL /pipermail/tm was not found on this server. Note: I noticed that both Alias /pipermail/ /home/mailman/archives/public/ and ScriptAlias /pipermail/ /home/mailman/archives/public/ are declared in srm.conf. Is that ok? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Corbett J. Klempay Quote of the Week: http://www2.acm.jhu.edu/~cklempay "Conscience is the inner voice that warns up that someone may be looking." PGP Fingerprint: 7DA2 DB6E 7F5E 8973 A8E7 347B 2429 7728 76C2 BEA1 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Sat, 7 Nov 1998, Scott wrote: > You probably need to set the option FollowSymlinks in the web server > for the /home/mailman/archives/public dirctory. In apache, this look > slike this: > > Alias /pipermail $prefix/archvies/public > > > Options FollowSymLinks > > > scott > > On Sat, Nov 07, 1998 at 09:18:47PM -0500, Corbett J. Klempay wrote: > | Hey all..I just got b6 in, and after some finangling with the cgi-gid (for > | some reason, I have to tell it the number 99 instead of the word > | nobody (a look in /etc/group confirms that nobody == 99)..not sure what > | the story is with that, but it works now, so I'm not too worried) > | > | Anyway, everything seems to be working fine...except accessing the > | archives. I was upgrading from b5, so I ran 'make update' and it > | converted everything all fine and dandy. When I try to link to a list's > | archives (public archives; don't have any private ones set up), I get > | > | Forbidden > | > | You don't have permission to access /pipermail/tm on this server. > | > | I was sure to add the ScriptAlias line to Apache's srm.conf file, so > | that's there. The permissions on the /home/mailman/archives/ dirs look > | like: > | > | [root@chimera archives]# ls -l > | total 2 > | drwxrws--x 10 root mailman 1024 Nov 7 20:06 private > | drwxrwsr-x 2 root mailman 1024 Nov 7 20:06 public > | [root@chimera archives]# > | > | Any ideas? Other than this, all seems kosher! > | > | ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > | Corbett J. Klempay Quote of the Week: > | http://www2.acm.jhu.edu/~cklempay "Conscience is the inner voice that > | warns up that someone may be looking." > | > | PGP Fingerprint: 7DA2 DB6E 7F5E 8973 A8E7 347B 2429 7728 76C2 BEA1 > | ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > | > | > | _______________________________________________ > | Mailman-Developers maillist - Mailman-Developers@python.org > | http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers > | > > _______________________________________________ > Mailman-Developers maillist - Mailman-Developers@python.org > http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers > From scott@chronis.pobox.com Sun Nov 8 02:41:46 1998 From: scott@chronis.pobox.com (Scott) Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 21:41:46 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] b6 in and working...except archive access :( In-Reply-To: ; from Corbett J. Klempay on Sat, Nov 07, 1998 at 09:43:15PM -0500 References: <19981107211742.53664@chronis.icgroup.com> Message-ID: <19981107214146.42432@chronis.icgroup.com> There should be no scriptalias for the public archives. that's probably the problem, though if it still doesn't work, could you send me a listing of /home/mailman/archives/public? scott On Sat, Nov 07, 1998 at 09:43:15PM -0500, Corbett J. Klempay wrote: | Huh. I added | | Alias /pipermail/ /home/mailman/archvies/public/ | | to the srm.conf file | | and then added | | # below added 11.07.98 by CJK for mailman 1.0b6 | | Options FollowSymLinks | | | to access.conf and restarted httpd and got: | | Not Found | | The requested URL /pipermail/tm was not found on this server. | | Note: I noticed that both | Alias /pipermail/ /home/mailman/archives/public/ | and | ScriptAlias /pipermail/ /home/mailman/archives/public/ | are declared in srm.conf. Is that ok? | | ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ | Corbett J. Klempay Quote of the Week: | http://www2.acm.jhu.edu/~cklempay "Conscience is the inner voice that | warns up that someone may be looking." | | PGP Fingerprint: 7DA2 DB6E 7F5E 8973 A8E7 347B 2429 7728 76C2 BEA1 | ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ | | On Sat, 7 Nov 1998, Scott wrote: | | > You probably need to set the option FollowSymlinks in the web server | > for the /home/mailman/archives/public dirctory. In apache, this look | > slike this: | > | > Alias /pipermail $prefix/archvies/public | > | > | > Options FollowSymLinks | > | > | > scott | > | > On Sat, Nov 07, 1998 at 09:18:47PM -0500, Corbett J. Klempay wrote: | > | Hey all..I just got b6 in, and after some finangling with the cgi-gid (for | > | some reason, I have to tell it the number 99 instead of the word | > | nobody (a look in /etc/group confirms that nobody == 99)..not sure what | > | the story is with that, but it works now, so I'm not too worried) | > | | > | Anyway, everything seems to be working fine...except accessing the | > | archives. I was upgrading from b5, so I ran 'make update' and it | > | converted everything all fine and dandy. When I try to link to a list's | > | archives (public archives; don't have any private ones set up), I get | > | | > | Forbidden | > | | > | You don't have permission to access /pipermail/tm on this server. | > | | > | I was sure to add the ScriptAlias line to Apache's srm.conf file, so | > | that's there. The permissions on the /home/mailman/archives/ dirs look | > | like: | > | | > | [root@chimera archives]# ls -l | > | total 2 | > | drwxrws--x 10 root mailman 1024 Nov 7 20:06 private | > | drwxrwsr-x 2 root mailman 1024 Nov 7 20:06 public | > | [root@chimera archives]# | > | | > | Any ideas? Other than this, all seems kosher! | > | | > | ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ | > | Corbett J. Klempay Quote of the Week: | > | http://www2.acm.jhu.edu/~cklempay "Conscience is the inner voice that | > | warns up that someone may be looking." | > | | > | PGP Fingerprint: 7DA2 DB6E 7F5E 8973 A8E7 347B 2429 7728 76C2 BEA1 | > | ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ | > | | > | | > | _______________________________________________ | > | Mailman-Developers maillist - Mailman-Developers@python.org | > | http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers | > | | > | > _______________________________________________ | > Mailman-Developers maillist - Mailman-Developers@python.org | > http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers | > | | | | | _______________________________________________ | Mailman-Developers maillist - Mailman-Developers@python.org | http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers | From gstein@lyra.org Sun Nov 8 04:08:46 1998 From: gstein@lyra.org (Greg Stein) Date: Sat, 07 Nov 1998 20:08:46 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] patch for virtual host lists Message-ID: <3645194E.1AAC28A7@lyra.org> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------44F33AF84B58B99E5A2BBBEB Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Here is a small patch for virtual-hosted lists. The original listinfo.py would correctly filter the visible lists for a virtual host, but the hostnames in the title and page contents were wrong. -g p.s. the patch is against 1.0b6 -- Greg Stein, http://www.lyra.org/ --------------44F33AF84B58B99E5A2BBBEB Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Received: from ns1.lyra.org (root@ns1.lyra.org [208.192.43.10]) by svpal.svpal.org (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id UAA05628 for ; Sat, 7 Nov 1998 20:01:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from cartman.lyra.org (cartman.lyra.org [208.192.43.15]) by ns1.lyra.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA31040 for ; Sat, 7 Nov 1998 20:06:52 -0800 Received: (from mailman@localhost) by cartman.lyra.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA05316 for gstein@lyra.org; Sat, 7 Nov 1998 20:06:32 -0800 Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 20:06:32 -0800 From: The Mailman Message-Id: <199811080406.UAA05316@cartman.lyra.org> *** listinfo.py-dist Sat Nov 7 20:03:01 1998 --- listinfo.py Sat Nov 7 20:05:31 1998 *************** *** 57,64 **** def FormatListinfoOverview(error=None): "Present a general welcome and itemize the (public) lists for this host." doc = Document() ! legend = "%s mailing lists" % mm_cfg.DEFAULT_HOST_NAME doc.SetTitle(legend) table = Table(border=0, width="100%") --- 57,76 ---- def FormatListinfoOverview(error=None): "Present a general welcome and itemize the (public) lists for this host." + + # XXX We need a portable way to determine the host by which we are being + # visited! An absolute URL would do... + if os.environ.has_key('HTTP_HOST'): + http_host = os.environ['HTTP_HOST'] + else: + http_host = None + if mm_cfg.VIRTUAL_HOST_OVERVIEW and http_host: + host_name = http_host + else: + host_name = mm_cfg.DEFAULT_HOST_NAME + doc = Document() ! legend = "%s mailing lists" % host_name doc.SetTitle(legend) table = Table(border=0, width="100%") *************** *** 70,82 **** names = Utils.list_names() names.sort() - # XXX We need a portable way to determine the host by which we are being - # visited! An absolute URL would do... - if os.environ.has_key('HTTP_HOST'): - http_host = os.environ['HTTP_HOST'] - else: - http_host = None - for n in names: l = MailList.MailList(n, lock = 0) if l.advertised: --- 82,87 ---- *************** *** 99,105 **** "

" " There currently are no publicly-advertised ", Link(mm_cfg.MAILMAN_URL, "mailman"), ! " mailing lists on %s." % mm_cfg.DEFAULT_HOST_NAME, ) else: --- 104,110 ---- "

" " There currently are no publicly-advertised ", Link(mm_cfg.MAILMAN_URL, "mailman"), ! " mailing lists on %s." % host_name, ) else: *************** *** 108,114 **** "

" " Below is the collection of publicly-advertised ", Link(mm_cfg.MAILMAN_URL, "mailman"), ! " mailing lists on %s." % mm_cfg.DEFAULT_HOST_NAME, (' Click on a list name to visit the info page' ' for that list. There you can learn more about the list,' ' subscribe to it, or find the roster of current subscribers.'), --- 113,119 ---- "

" " Below is the collection of publicly-advertised ", Link(mm_cfg.MAILMAN_URL, "mailman"), ! " mailing lists on %s." % host_name, (' Click on a list name to visit the info page' ' for that list. There you can learn more about the list,' ' subscribe to it, or find the roster of current subscribers.'), --------------44F33AF84B58B99E5A2BBBEB-- From gstein@lyra.org Sun Nov 8 04:31:35 1998 From: gstein@lyra.org (Greg Stein) Date: Sat, 07 Nov 1998 20:31:35 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Another patch Message-ID: <36451EA7.791D3D56@lyra.org> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------6A8F3BCA1FCCEE016CF700D9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This patch modifies the text in the subscription page. For list-admin-hidden lists, the text erroneously stated that list members could see the member list. -g -- Greg Stein, http://www.lyra.org/ --------------6A8F3BCA1FCCEE016CF700D9 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Received: from ns1.lyra.org (root@ns1.lyra.org [208.192.43.10]) by svpal.svpal.org (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id UAA06098 for ; Sat, 7 Nov 1998 20:24:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from cartman.lyra.org (cartman.lyra.org [208.192.43.15]) by ns1.lyra.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA31146 for ; Sat, 7 Nov 1998 20:29:40 -0800 Received: (from mailman@localhost) by cartman.lyra.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA05399 for gstein@lyra.org; Sat, 7 Nov 1998 20:29:20 -0800 Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 20:29:20 -0800 From: The Mailman Message-Id: <199811080429.UAA05399@cartman.lyra.org> *** HTMLFormatter.py-dist Sat Nov 7 16:07:54 1998 --- HTMLFormatter.py Sat Nov 7 20:28:49 1998 *************** *** 180,189 **** "administrator. You will be notified of the " "administrator's decision by email. ") also = "also " ! if self.private_roster: msg = msg + ("This is %sa private list, which means that " "the members list is not available to non-" "members. " % also) else: msg = msg + ("This is %sa public list, which means that the " "members list is openly available" % also) --- 180,193 ---- "administrator. You will be notified of the " "administrator's decision by email. ") also = "also " ! if self.private_roster == 1: msg = msg + ("This is %sa private list, which means that " "the members list is not available to non-" "members. " % also) + elif self.private_roster: + msg = msg + ("This is %sa hidden list, which means that " + "the members list is available only to the " + "list administrator. " % also) else: msg = msg + ("This is %sa public list, which means that the " "members list is openly available" % also) --------------6A8F3BCA1FCCEE016CF700D9-- From scott@chronis.pobox.com Sun Nov 8 04:26:18 1998 From: scott@chronis.pobox.com (Scott) Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 23:26:18 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Another patch In-Reply-To: <36451EA7.791D3D56@lyra.org>; from Greg Stein on Sat, Nov 07, 1998 at 08:31:35PM -0800 References: <36451EA7.791D3D56@lyra.org> Message-ID: <19981107232618.61933@chronis.icgroup.com> At this rate, you'll have 1.0b7 out in a week. keep going! scott On Sat, Nov 07, 1998 at 08:31:35PM -0800, Greg Stein wrote: | This patch modifies the text in the subscription page. For | list-admin-hidden lists, the text erroneously stated that list members | could see the member list. | | -g | | -- | Greg Stein, http://www.lyra.org/ | Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 20:29:20 -0800 | From: The Mailman | | *** HTMLFormatter.py-dist Sat Nov 7 16:07:54 1998 | --- HTMLFormatter.py Sat Nov 7 20:28:49 1998 | *************** | *** 180,189 **** | "administrator. You will be notified of the " | "administrator's decision by email. ") | also = "also " | ! if self.private_roster: | msg = msg + ("This is %sa private list, which means that " | "the members list is not available to non-" | "members. " % also) | else: | msg = msg + ("This is %sa public list, which means that the " | "members list is openly available" % also) | --- 180,193 ---- | "administrator. You will be notified of the " | "administrator's decision by email. ") | also = "also " | ! if self.private_roster == 1: | msg = msg + ("This is %sa private list, which means that " | "the members list is not available to non-" | "members. " % also) | + elif self.private_roster: | + msg = msg + ("This is %sa hidden list, which means that " | + "the members list is available only to the " | + "list administrator. " % also) | else: | msg = msg + ("This is %sa public list, which means that the " | "members list is openly available" % also) | From darren@jasper.somtel.com Sun Nov 8 04:42:48 1998 From: darren@jasper.somtel.com (Darren Henderson) Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 23:42:48 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Mailman-Developers] feature request Message-ID: It would be nice if administrative users could see a log of list activity. A web page would surfice... even just a grep of the subscribe log in reverse chronological order for their list though it might be handy to see other activity as well, (statistical type stuff...how many posts this week, month, year etc might be interesting though perhaps not of great utility). Perhaps access attempts for both administrative and user accounts to see if any fishy seems to be happening. ______________________________________________________________________ Darren Henderson darren@jasper.somtel.com Help fight junk e-mail, visit http://www.cauce.org/ From scott@chronis.pobox.com Sun Nov 8 05:39:38 1998 From: scott@chronis.pobox.com (Scott) Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 00:39:38 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Re: [Mailman-Users] mailman using old sendmail In-Reply-To: <4.1.19981107210437.00963100@128.59.97.9>; from farul ghazali on Sat, Nov 07, 1998 at 09:08:35PM -0500 References: <19981106160102.24819@chronis.icgroup.com> <4.1.19981107210437.00963100@128.59.97.9> Message-ID: <19981108003938.25283@chronis.icgroup.com> On Sat, Nov 07, 1998 at 09:08:35PM -0500, farul ghazali wrote: | Scott, | | THanks for trying to help. Here's the transcript you wanted. I would | personally love to upgrade the system, but I only take care of the machine | part time, the full time sysadmin is too swamped to do it herself now, No wonder she's swamped, running stuff that out of date ;) | but | she doesn't want me to do it either :-) updating mailers is a pain. | Again, much thanks. Oh, fyi, I'm using the 1.0b6 sources that was just | posted a few nights ago. Ogay, here's a patch (apply it to $prefix/mailman/Mailman/smtplib.py): It'll work :) 160c160 < if c == '5': --- > elif c == '5': 162c162 < if c not in '123': --- > elif c not in '123': 169a170,174 > > This is actually more of a problem with mailman's smtplib than anything else. The way it was coded, it was translating all errors into protocol errors, and the attempt to get esmpt access using EHLO instead of HELO revealed that. scott From dragondm@delta.integral.org Sun Nov 8 12:31:00 1998 From: dragondm@delta.integral.org (The Dragon De Monsyne) Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 06:31:00 -0600 (CST) Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Re: [Mailman-Users] mailman using old sendmail In-Reply-To: <19981108003938.25283@chronis.icgroup.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 8 Nov 1998, Scott wrote: > On Sat, Nov 07, 1998 at 09:08:35PM -0500, farul ghazali wrote: > > > This is actually more of a problem with mailman's smtplib than > anything else. The way it was coded, it was translating all errors > into protocol errors, and the attempt to get esmpt access using EHLO > instead of HELO revealed that. > Ugh... Don't tell me mailman is still using isn't using the standard python smtplib?! Wasn't my patch received?? -The Dragon De Monsyne From akuchlin@cnri.reston.va.us Sun Nov 8 17:41:15 1998 From: akuchlin@cnri.reston.va.us (A.M. Kuchling) Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 12:41:15 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] eSquire mailing list manager Message-ID: <199811081741.MAA17837@mira.erols.com> I attended a local Linux user group meeting on Saturday, and one presentation was by the author of the eSquire mailing list manager. The eSquire home page is at http://www.gamerz.net/eSquire/ . It's quite similar to Mailman in the capabilities that it supports; the major difference is that users only interact with it through e-mail, but administrators can do anything via the Web. In Mailman, subscribers can use the Web for setting their options, and some tasks, such as creating a new list, can only be done from the command line. (As a result, the code that creates new lists in eSquire needs to be setuid root in order to edit the aliases file.) Features that might be of interest for Mailman: * There are more classes of users. On a moderated list, some users can be set to have their posts automatically approved. There's also a list of banned users, who can follow the list but can't post. * Another list subscription policy: eSquire has open and closed lists as Mailman does, and adds a third level in-between, where any current subscriber can add new subscribers to the list. * Unsubscribes can require approval (useful for work-related lists) * You can create autoresponders. This is really orthogonal to mailing list handling, but you can create an autoresponder address which forwards any mail sent to it, and returns a response. For example, the author's e-mail is 'rrognlie', so he set up a forwarder for 'rognlie' to give people the correct address. At the moment the author is employed by Erols, a local ISP, and wrote eSquire for internal use. Soon he'll be changing jobs to work for Sendmail, Inc. -- A.M. Kuchling http://starship.skyport.net/crew/amk/ Well, me whole family's musical, Jeffo... even the sewing machine's a Singer. -- John Constantine in HELLBLAZER #90 From cklempay@acm.jhu.edu Sun Nov 8 18:33:18 1998 From: cklempay@acm.jhu.edu (Corbett J. Klempay) Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 13:33:18 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Mailman-Developers] gate_news gone mad Message-ID: First: thanks to Scott...he spent some time on the machine last night finding some oddness (I don't know that we're sure yet why it set a bunch of the symlinks wrong....but it works now, so hey :) Now: I got an email when I woke up (just recently :) that mailman was spiking the load like mad. Sure enough, watching top revealed that it was spawning ~70 mailman processes every few minutes, which drove the load up to ~30...the processes would run for <= 5 seconds or so max and be gone. I thought it must be a cron job issue, and gate_news is the only thing with an interval anywhere near that small (I didn't watch forever to make sure it was 5 minutes, but it looked to be in the ballpark). After reinstalling that crontab file with gate_news commented it, the spikes have stopped. Has anyone else seen weird gate_news behavior before? We don't need it here...we don't do any gating. I'm fairly sure I had it commented out in the previous (b5) installation, but I'm not positive. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Corbett J. Klempay Quote of the Week: http://www2.acm.jhu.edu/~cklempay "Conscience is the inner voice that warns up that someone may be looking." PGP Fingerprint: 7DA2 DB6E 7F5E 8973 A8E7 347B 2429 7728 76C2 BEA1 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From cklempay@acm.jhu.edu Sun Nov 8 18:36:54 1998 From: cklempay@acm.jhu.edu (Corbett J. Klempay) Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 13:36:54 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Mailman-Developers] load history Message-ID: I don't know if anyone finds it useful in relation to my last message, but we have a graphical load monitor for the last day for the machine at http://www2.acm.jhu.edu/~slipcon/graphs/ It's chimera.acm.jhu.edu. Hehhee...the scale for the graph had to be adjusted to max out at 44 :) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Corbett J. Klempay Quote of the Week: http://www2.acm.jhu.edu/~cklempay "Conscience is the inner voice that warns up that someone may be looking." PGP Fingerprint: 7DA2 DB6E 7F5E 8973 A8E7 347B 2429 7728 76C2 BEA1 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From John@list.org Sun Nov 8 20:56:46 1998 From: John@list.org (John Viega) Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 12:56:46 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] eSquire mailing list manager In-Reply-To: <199811081741.MAA17837@mira.erols.com>; from A.M. Kuchling on Sun, Nov 08, 1998 at 12:41:15PM -0500 References: <199811081741.MAA17837@mira.erols.com> Message-ID: <19981108125646.A2051@viega.org> > Features that might be of interest for Mailman: > > * There are more classes of users. On a moderated list, some > users can be set to have their posts automatically approved. There's > also a list of banned users, who can follow the list but can't post. You can do these things in Mailman, but it's more centralized. There is a listbox for each of these two things. Which do you think is more useful? Or both? > * Another list subscription policy: eSquire has open and closed > lists as Mailman does, and adds a third level in-between, where any > current subscriber can add new subscribers to the list. Good idea. > * Unsubscribes can require approval (useful for work-related > lists) Good idea. > * You can create autoresponders. This is really orthogonal to > mailing list handling, but you can create an autoresponder address > which forwards any mail sent to it, and returns a response. For > example, the author's e-mail is 'rrognlie', so he set up a forwarder > for 'rognlie' to give people the correct address. Is it as sophisticated as vacation? Ie, does it keep a database of who it's responded to recently to avoid mail loops, and the like? So did you tell this guy about Mailman? What did he say? John From gstein@lyra.org Mon Nov 9 04:36:05 1998 From: gstein@lyra.org (Greg Stein) Date: Sun, 08 Nov 1998 20:36:05 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] BUGS: URL vs file pathnames Message-ID: <36467135.53464EB3@lyra.org> Hello... There are a number of obsolete files in the distribution. Should be torched. Mailman/Archiver.py Mailman/pipermail.py Mailman/HyperArch.py Mailman/HyperDatabase.py Also, there is a general problem in the code with using os.path.join to construct URLs. A URL is NOT a file path. You don't want to use ":" or "\" if Mailman is run on a different platform. The os.path.join should go away and string concat should be used with "/". HTMLFormatter.py: lines 96 and 299 MailList.py: 442 Cgi/admin.py: 220, 401 Cgi/archives.py: 72 Cgi/edithtml.py: 95, 161 Cgi/listinfo.py: 130 Archiver/Archiver.py: 118, 122 Also, line 101 of MailList.py has a hard-coded "/" rather than using os.path.join. Finally: Archiver/Archiver.py:122 should have a trailing "/" on the public archive URL. The trailing slash prevents an internal redirection in Apache -- this screws me because it switches the hostname from a CNAME to the "real" hostname. -g -- Greg Stein, http://www.lyra.org/ From gstein@lyra.org Mon Nov 9 04:47:07 1998 From: gstein@lyra.org (Greg Stein) Date: Sun, 08 Nov 1998 20:47:07 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] patch for password-reminder message Message-ID: <364673CB.4939E8C8@lyra.org> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------70A0D8B84F8277491A4D85E3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Here is a patch to automatically adjust the listinfo text for the reminder message. A small tweak to templates/listinfo.html:76 also needs to be made to replace the text with . -g -- Greg Stein, http://www.lyra.org/ --------------70A0D8B84F8277491A4D85E3 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Received: from ns1.lyra.org (root@ns1.lyra.org [208.192.43.10]) by svpal.svpal.org (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id UAA24922 for ; Sun, 8 Nov 1998 20:40:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from cartman.lyra.org (cartman.lyra.org [208.192.43.15]) by ns1.lyra.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA05110 for ; Sun, 8 Nov 1998 20:46:21 -0800 Received: (from mailman@localhost) by cartman.lyra.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA07343 for gstein@lyra.org; Sun, 8 Nov 1998 20:46:01 -0800 Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 20:46:01 -0800 From: The Mailman Message-Id: <199811090446.UAA07343@cartman.lyra.org> *** HTMLFormatter.py-dist Sat Nov 7 16:07:54 1998 --- HTMLFormatter.py Sun Nov 8 20:40:40 1998 *************** *** 310,315 **** --- 314,324 ---- def FormatButton(self, name, text='Submit'): return '' % (name, text) + def FormatReminder(self): + if self.send_reminders: + return 'Once a month, your password will be emailed to you as a reminder.' + return '' + def ParseTags(self, template, replacements): text = self.SnarfHTMLTemplate(template) parts = regsub.splitx(text, ']*>') *************** *** 348,354 **** + `len(self.digest_members)`), '' : '%s' % self.GetListEmail(), '' : '%s' % self.GetRequestEmail(), ! '' : self.GetAdminEmail() } def InitTemplates(self): --- 357,364 ---- + `len(self.digest_members)`), '' : '%s' % self.GetListEmail(), '' : '%s' % self.GetRequestEmail(), ! '' : self.GetAdminEmail(), ! '' : self.FormatReminder(), } def InitTemplates(self): --------------70A0D8B84F8277491A4D85E3-- From jeff@ollie.clive.ia.us Mon Nov 9 14:06:59 1998 From: jeff@ollie.clive.ia.us (Jeffrey C. Ollie) Date: Mon, 09 Nov 1998 08:06:59 -0600 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] CVS Problem? References: <36448595.C44851A8@ollie.clive.ia.us> <13892.52983.47756.611702@anthem.cnri.reston.va.us> Message-ID: <3646F703.FCAB7B1D@ollie.clive.ia.us> This is a cryptographically signed message in MIME format. --------------ms665007A6275AEA2D4C435F77 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "Barry A. Warsaw" wrote: > > >>>>> "JCO" == Jeffrey C Ollie writes: > > JCO> Hmmm... while trying to do a "cvs update" I ran into the > JCO> following problem. This error occurs even if I start fresh. > > Try it now. Yes, much better! Thanks! 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Kuchling) Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 09:09:32 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Mailman-Developers] eSquire mailing list manager In-Reply-To: <19981108125646.A2051@viega.org> References: <199811081741.MAA17837@mira.erols.com> <19981108125646.A2051@viega.org> Message-ID: <13894.63305.542498.242251@amarok.cnri.reston.va.us> John Viega writes: >Is it as sophisticated as vacation? Ie, does it keep a database of >who it's responded to recently to avoid mail loops, and the like? He didn't mention it doing so, so it probably doesn't do anything that fancy. >So did you tell this guy about Mailman? What did he say? No, there wasn't much of a question period, and I didn't talk to him after the meeting. -- A.M. Kuchling http://starship.skyport.net/crew/amk/ Get your head outta the clouds! Not you, kiddo. I was talking to Tiny. He gets his head in the clouds, he'll be sneezing for days. -- Mervyn Pumpkinhead, in SANDMAN: "The Castle" From dragondm@delta.integral.org Mon Nov 9 15:33:33 1998 From: dragondm@delta.integral.org (The Dragon De Monsyne) Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 09:33:33 -0600 (CST) Subject: [Mailman-Developers] gate_news gone mad In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 8 Nov 1998, Corbett J. Klempay wrote: > First: thanks to Scott...he spent some time on the machine last night > finding some oddness (I don't know that we're sure yet why it set a bunch > of the symlinks wrong....but it works now, so hey :) > > Now: I got an email when I woke up (just recently :) that mailman was > spiking the load like mad. Sure enough, watching top revealed that it was > spawning ~70 mailman processes every few minutes, which drove the load up > to ~30...the processes would run for <= 5 seconds or so max and be gone. > I thought it must be a cron job issue, and gate_news is the only thing > with an interval anywhere near that small (I didn't watch forever to make > sure it was 5 minutes, but it looked to be in the ballpark). After > reinstalling that crontab file with gate_news commented it, the spikes > have stopped. Has anyone else seen weird gate_news behavior before? We > don't need it here...we don't do any gating. I'm fairly sure I had it > commented out in the previous (b5) installation, but I'm not positive. Yup. I've seen this too. And it is gate_news, I've run top on a very wide xwindow to read the full proc. name. I also don't use the gateway, and just commented it out. And I can see, looking at the gate_news code exactly why it will do that, too.... The way it is currently coded, it will fork proccesses, and _those_ will fork -1 proccesses, and _those_ will fork -2 proccesses, etc. The last for loop in gate_news needs a sys._exit() at the end to fix this. -The Dragon De Monsyne From tomas@euronetics.se Mon Nov 9 16:11:29 1998 From: tomas@euronetics.se (Tomas Fasth) Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 17:11:29 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Internationalization Message-ID: <00ac01be0bfb$9c6627f0$f6d52dc1@bishop.twinspot.net> Harald, I did brought this up a while ago (Sept. 4), and there was a response from Ken Manheimer. He explained that because the core developers currently are trying to stablize a 1.0 release the issue of internationalization (i18n) is not currently on the priority list. I was about to point you to the archives, but couldn't find anything before Oct 2. Instead I'll send you a copy in private, don't want to duplicate it on this list. Like you I am prepared to do a translation (in my case Swedish). I did try a translation of the human presentation text in the 1.0b5 release, but gave up after a while when I realized it got a little bit too complicated with too many modules involved. In order to achieve i18n of mailman, it definitely involves some architectural considerations and (at least) partial change of the code. There seem to exist ideas in the heads of the core developers on how to achieve i18n in mailman. But we might have to give them some time and bring this up again later. Tomas From John@list.org Mon Nov 9 16:21:42 1998 From: John@list.org (John Viega) Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 08:21:42 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Internationalization In-Reply-To: <00ac01be0bfb$9c6627f0$f6d52dc1@bishop.twinspot.net>; from Tomas Fasth on Mon, Nov 09, 1998 at 05:11:29PM +0100 References: <00ac01be0bfb$9c6627f0$f6d52dc1@bishop.twinspot.net> Message-ID: <19981109082142.A9205@viega.org> Guys, I disagree with Ken on the prioritization of internationalization. The big problem is someone needs to rework parts of the software so that all interesting text reads from a file, or something like that. If anyone wants to take on the task, and submit patches, I'd rather see it get integrated sooner rather than later. Perhaps it's time to keep 2 development trees, a beta series that will soon become 1.0 and only gets bug fixes + documentation + "critical" features, and an alpha series that will eventually become 1.1... Anyway, if you want to do the work, we'll figure out how to integrate it so that people can use it ASAP. John On Mon, Nov 09, 1998 at 05:11:29PM +0100, Tomas Fasth wrote: > Harald, > I did brought this up a while ago (Sept. 4), and there was a response from > Ken Manheimer. He explained that because the core developers currently are > trying to stablize a 1.0 release the issue of internationalization (i18n) is > not currently on the priority list. > I was about to point you to the archives, but couldn't find anything before > Oct 2. Instead I'll send you a copy in private, don't want to duplicate it > on this list. > > Like you I am prepared to do a translation (in my case Swedish). > I did try a translation of the human presentation text in the 1.0b5 release, > but gave up after a while when I realized it got a little bit too > complicated with too many modules involved. > In order to achieve i18n of mailman, it definitely involves some > architectural considerations and (at least) partial change of the code. > There seem to exist ideas in the heads of the core developers on how to > achieve i18n in mailman. But we might have to give them some time and bring > this up again later. > > Tomas > > > > _______________________________________________ > Mailman-Developers maillist - Mailman-Developers@python.org > http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers From scott@chronis.pobox.com Mon Nov 9 20:36:09 1998 From: scott@chronis.pobox.com (Scott) Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 15:36:09 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] BUGS: URL vs file pathnames In-Reply-To: <36467135.53464EB3@lyra.org>; from Greg Stein on Sun, Nov 08, 1998 at 08:36:05PM -0800 References: <36467135.53464EB3@lyra.org> Message-ID: <19981109153609.44163@chronis.icgroup.com> On Sun, Nov 08, 1998 at 08:36:05PM -0800, Greg Stein wrote: | Hello... | | There are a number of obsolete files in the distribution. Should be | torched. | Mailman/Archiver.py | Mailman/pipermail.py | Mailman/HyperArch.py | Mailman/HyperDatabase.py | running "make update" from the source should delete these. they're no longer in the source tree (at this location) either. | Also, there is a general problem in the code with using os.path.join to | construct URLs. A URL is NOT a file path. You don't want to use ":" or | "\" if Mailman is run on a different platform. The os.path.join should | go away and string concat should be used with "/". | | HTMLFormatter.py: lines 96 and 299 | MailList.py: 442 | Cgi/admin.py: 220, 401 | Cgi/archives.py: 72 | Cgi/edithtml.py: 95, 161 | Cgi/listinfo.py: 130 | Archiver/Archiver.py: 118, 122 I'm working on fixing these now. | | Also, line 101 of MailList.py has a hard-coded "/" rather than using | os.path.join. ditto. thx. | Finally: Archiver/Archiver.py:122 should have a trailing "/" on the | public archive URL. The trailing slash prevents an internal redirection | in Apache -- this screws me because it switches the hostname from a | CNAME to the "real" hostname. What sort of internal redirection? scott From gstein@lyra.org Mon Nov 9 20:59:37 1998 From: gstein@lyra.org (Greg Stein) Date: Mon, 09 Nov 1998 12:59:37 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] BUGS: URL vs file pathnames References: <36467135.53464EB3@lyra.org> <19981109153609.44163@chronis.icgroup.com> Message-ID: <364757B9.64145454@lyra.org> Scott wrote: > On Sun, Nov 08, 1998 at 08:36:05PM -0800, Greg Stein wrote: > | Hello... > | > | There are a number of obsolete files in the distribution. Should be > | torched. > | Mailman/Archiver.py > | Mailman/pipermail.py > | Mailman/HyperArch.py > | Mailman/HyperDatabase.py > | > > running "make update" from the source should delete these. > they're no longer in the source tree (at this location) either. Euh... I installed from scratch. Those files are in the tarball and/or install script (not left over from an updated install area). That just seems wrong. > ... > | Finally: Archiver/Archiver.py:122 should have a trailing "/" on the > | public archive URL. The trailing slash prevents an internal redirection > | in Apache -- this screws me because it switches the hostname from a > | CNAME to the "real" hostname. > > What sort of internal redirection? If you send a request for a directory to Apache without a trailing "/", then it will append the "/" and do an "internal redirect". The result of this is that the browser will update the URL that it displays to the internal-redirect location. In my case, it lost the CNAME hostname and picked up the true name (undesirable). By appending the "/" on there, it doesn't do the redirect and everything is hunky-dory. Heck, you could also argue that the patch is for improving web server performance :-) Cheers, -g -- Greg Stein, http://www.lyra.org/ From bedard@info.uqam.ca Tue Nov 10 05:10:46 1998 From: bedard@info.uqam.ca (Francois Bedard) Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 00:10:46 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Internationalization Message-ID: <3647CAD6.E9130694@info.uqam.ca> Following up on the lead by Harald Meland, Tomas Fasth, John Viega and earlier postings in the archives... As preliminary research for a project at the Universite du Quebec a Montreal, we've been looking for an open source mailing list manager which could be translated into French - or, better yet, internationalized so that local versions could be easily produced for any number of languages. We haven't yet decided on what program would be the most interesting - we might go with Sympa, which already offers a French interface alongside the default English one, as we might drop the project altogether. On the other hand, should we decide mostly on the basis of perceived potential, Mailman, for little we've seen, would appear to have a number of commending features: Python being one, the web interface, GNU label and apparent dynamism being others. Our objective is more ambitious than that expressed by Harald Meland though. We'd specifically like to: 1) Translate the web interface and all messages generated by Mailman. 2) Translate the commands (e.g. "subscribe" and the like) or offer the possibility of using either the English form or a local version - the reason being that intended users might include people unfamiliar with both English and computers. 3) Add any such feature as would be needed to preserve the integrity of the content (I'm thinking accented characters and the like) where possible, or its sensible adaptation where limitations would so dictate (that is, a preference for Unicode over ASCII and ASCII over garbled). We'd appreciate if someone could give us an idea of the work involved to bring this about. Any comment on the comparative merits of Mailman would come handy as well. Since interest has by now been expressed for a number of languages, perhaps this could be made into a more concerted effort... Thanks to all, Francois Bedard UQAM Montreal From tomas@euronetics.se Tue Nov 10 13:59:28 1998 From: tomas@euronetics.se (Tomas Fasth) Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 14:59:28 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Internationalization Message-ID: <007401be0cb2$550dc3b0$f6d52dc1@bishop.twinspot.net> John, I think making a separate branch in cvs for this is a good idea, as a matter of fact, it is IMO the only reasonable way to deal with parallel activities. My experience with cvs says that a later merge is fairly straight forward. Besides, most probable is that merges are made into the i18n branch to incorporate bug fixes and such from the 1.0 branch. At some point, before the release of 1.1, the i18n branch will probably take the lead (becoming head version). Regrettably, I am in the coming months heavily booked and should therefore not get involved in mailman coding (I need more time to do a good job). I can however provide a Swedish translation and serve as a (Swedish) test site for the i18n efford. Tomas From darren@jasper.somtel.com Tue Nov 10 18:09:15 1998 From: darren@jasper.somtel.com (Darren Henderson) Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 13:09:15 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Mailman-Developers] feature suggestion Message-ID: Very low priority idea... Might be nice if list members could simple line of text (might consist of a url) that could be stored in the database and accessed via the list membership pages. I think I would mingle the digest and non-digest addresses and just flag the digest ones. Then in the right hand display the above user info. They might wish to supply additional contact information for instance. ______________________________________________________________________ Darren Henderson darren@jasper.somtel.com Help fight junk e-mail, visit http://www.cauce.org/ From bedard@info.uqam.ca Tue Nov 10 20:09:57 1998 From: bedard@info.uqam.ca (Francois Bedard) Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 15:09:57 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Internationalization References: <3647CAD6.E9130694@info.uqam.ca> <19981110145325.D5220@mail.tolna.net> Message-ID: <36489D95.360D566A@info.uqam.ca> Hello Peter, Peter Gervai wrote: > It wasn't clear whether you are intended to translate the program > as a whole or making it possible to be able to choose the supported > language on a list-by-list basis (plug a language to the list). We'd like for the users and maintainers of a list to be able to function entirely in their own language if they so desire. So, whatever it takes to achieve that... It would probably be best if maintainers could specify default and alternative languages for each list, and if as well individual users could select the language of their choice among the alternatives offered. > It would be really nice to have the possibility to host lists > with national language interface as well as english (or probably > other) language based lists as well on the same installation. Indeed. Many countries have more than one official language (not that it has to be official); Switzerland has four and is not an extreme case at that. As more and more people get to join or offer mailing lists, not all of them computer-savvy, it would be nice if they could do so in the most comfortable of ways. A web interface is certainly a good step in this direction; support for alternative languages would definitely be another. Francois Bedard From gorgo@caesar.elte.hu Thu Nov 12 10:12:32 1998 From: gorgo@caesar.elte.hu (Gergely Madarasz) Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 11:12:32 +0100 (MET) Subject: [Mailman-Developers] gate_news crashed my machine Message-ID: Hello! I just upgraded to 1.0b6, everything worked fine, except for this little thing... pushed the load up to >180, nothing worked after... :( So, exactly what is the fix for gate_news ? Don't tell me to buy a faster machine :) Thanks, Greg -- Madarasz Gergely gorgo@caesar.elte.hu gorgo@linux.rulez.org It's practically impossible to look at a penguin and feel angry. Egy pingvinre gyakorlatilag lehetetlen haragosan nezni. HuLUG: http://mlf.linux.rulez.org/ From scott@chronis.pobox.com Thu Nov 12 10:05:47 1998 From: scott@chronis.pobox.com (Scott) Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 05:05:47 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] gate_news crashed my machine In-Reply-To: ; from Gergely Madarasz on Thu, Nov 12, 1998 at 11:12:32AM +0100 References: Message-ID: <19981112050547.19882@chronis.icgroup.com> the fix is to add os._exit(0) to the line right after file.close() like so: # Save after every newsgroup... should probably save after every post. # Reason being, want to make sure in case of a system crash or something, # The same messages don't get gated multiple times. file = open(os.path.join(mm_cfg.DATA_DIR, "gate_watermarks"), "w") marshal.dump(watermarks, file) file.close() os._exit(0) sorry 'bout that one. You may want to just comment out the cron job if you don't do any new gatewaying. I've never seen a load of 180 before. highest i've seen is about 130, that was sendmail's fault. i guess mailman gets the prize most potentially abusive to the system's load. needless to say, this fix is in the current cvs sources. scott On Thu, Nov 12, 1998 at 11:12:32AM +0100, Gergely Madarasz wrote: | Hello! | | I just upgraded to 1.0b6, everything worked fine, except for this little | thing... pushed the load up to >180, nothing worked after... :( | So, exactly what is the fix for gate_news ? Don't tell me to buy a faster | machine :) | | Thanks, | | Greg | | -- | Madarasz Gergely gorgo@caesar.elte.hu gorgo@linux.rulez.org | It's practically impossible to look at a penguin and feel angry. | Egy pingvinre gyakorlatilag lehetetlen haragosan nezni. | HuLUG: http://mlf.linux.rulez.org/ | | | _______________________________________________ | Mailman-Developers maillist - Mailman-Developers@python.org | http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers | From gorgo@caesar.elte.hu Fri Nov 13 14:51:29 1998 From: gorgo@caesar.elte.hu (Gergely Madarasz) Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 15:51:29 +0100 (MET) Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Re: [Mailman-Users] admin requests on the lists In-Reply-To: <19981112120435.03662@chronis.icgroup.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 12 Nov 1998, Scott wrote: > is the administrivia check turned on? Yes. > > if so, then please forward examples of administrivia that found their > way through to mailman-developers, we'll make it better. Here is a very simple example: Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 15:26:27 -0100 (GMT) From: Reply-To: linux-kezdo@mlf.linux.rulez.org To: linux-kezdo@mlf.linux.rulez.org Subject: [lk] (no subject) subscribe _______________________________________________________ linux-kezdo lista - linux-kezdo@mlf.linux.rulez.org http://mlf.linux.rulez.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-kezdo > > On Thu, Nov 12, 1998 at 04:13:50PM +0100, Gergely Madarasz wrote: > | Hello! > | > | I've upgraded to 1.0b6 and it seems that the admin request filtering > | doesn't work. For example unsubscribe messages to the list don't get > | caught. Any ideas ? > | > | -- > | Madarasz Gergely gorgo@caesar.elte.hu gorgo@linux.rulez.org > | It's practically impossible to look at a penguin and feel angry. > | Egy pingvinre gyakorlatilag lehetetlen haragosan nezni. > | HuLUG: http://mlf.linux.rulez.org/ > | > | > | > | ------------------------------------------------------ > | Mailman-Users maillist - Mailman-Users@python.org > | http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users > | > -- Madarasz Gergely gorgo@caesar.elte.hu gorgo@linux.rulez.org It's practically impossible to look at a penguin and feel angry. Egy pingvinre gyakorlatilag lehetetlen haragosan nezni. HuLUG: http://mlf.linux.rulez.org/ From scott@chronis.pobox.com Fri Nov 13 17:30:42 1998 From: scott@chronis.pobox.com (Scott) Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 12:30:42 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Re: [Mailman-Users] admin requests on the lists In-Reply-To: ; from Gergely Madarasz on Fri, Nov 13, 1998 at 03:51:29PM +0100 References: <19981112120435.03662@chronis.icgroup.com> Message-ID: <19981113123042.43578@chronis.icgroup.com> On Fri, Nov 13, 1998 at 03:51:29PM +0100, Gergely Madarasz wrote: | On Thu, 12 Nov 1998, Scott wrote: | | > is the administrivia check turned on? | | Yes. | | > | > if so, then please forward examples of administrivia that found their | > way through to mailman-developers, we'll make it better. | | Here is a very simple example: | | Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 15:26:27 -0100 (GMT) | From: | Reply-To: linux-kezdo@mlf.linux.rulez.org | To: linux-kezdo@mlf.linux.rulez.org | Subject: [lk] (no subject) | | subscribe | | | _______________________________________________________ | linux-kezdo lista - linux-kezdo@mlf.linux.rulez.org | http://mlf.linux.rulez.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-kezdo This message should have been caught by the administrivia filter. It looks at the message before the message footer and subsject are altered and so, to quote your message like that: """\ Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 15:26:27 -0100 (GMT) From: Reply-To: linux-kezdo@mlf.linux.rulez.org To: linux-kezdo@mlf.linux.rulez.org subscribe """ and to run the administrivia check on it by hand: >>> from Mailman.Message import IncomingMessage >>> from Mailman.Utils import IsAdministrivia >>> txt = """Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 15:26:27 -0100 (GMT) ... From: ... Reply-To: linux-kezdo@mlf.linux.rulez.org ... To: linux-kezdo@mlf.linux.rulez.org ... ... subscribe ... ... """ >>> msg = IncomingMessage(txt) >>> IsAdministrivia(msg) 1 >>> Maybe I'm missing something, but it seems like the problem (in this case) is not in the accuracy of the administrivia check, but in the list config. what happens if you run echo subscribe | mail ??? On every installation i've seen, it flags the request as administrivia and sends it to the list admin for approval. scott From gorgo@caesar.elte.hu Fri Nov 13 18:46:58 1998 From: gorgo@caesar.elte.hu (Gergely Madarasz) Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 19:46:58 +0100 (MET) Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Re: [Mailman-Users] admin requests on the lists In-Reply-To: <19981113123042.43578@chronis.icgroup.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 13 Nov 1998, Scott wrote: > >>> msg = IncomingMessage(txt) > >>> IsAdministrivia(msg) > 1 > >>> same here. > what happens if you run > > echo subscribe | mail > > ??? It is caught by the filter. But if I send a simple message containing only one word (subscribe) from pine, it is sent to the list. -- Madarasz Gergely gorgo@caesar.elte.hu gorgo@linux.rulez.org It's practically impossible to look at a penguin and feel angry. Egy pingvinre gyakorlatilag lehetetlen haragosan nezni. HuLUG: http://mlf.linux.rulez.org/ From scott@chronis.pobox.com Fri Nov 13 18:44:39 1998 From: scott@chronis.pobox.com (Scott) Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 13:44:39 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Re: [Mailman-Users] admin requests on the lists In-Reply-To: ; from Gergely Madarasz on Fri, Nov 13, 1998 at 07:46:58PM +0100 References: <19981113123042.43578@chronis.icgroup.com> Message-ID: <19981113134439.36511@chronis.icgroup.com> I don't have pine, can you send me such a message from pine so i can have a pristine copy to wrok with? scott On Fri, Nov 13, 1998 at 07:46:58PM +0100, Gergely Madarasz wrote: | On Fri, 13 Nov 1998, Scott wrote: | | > >>> msg = IncomingMessage(txt) | > >>> IsAdministrivia(msg) | > 1 | > >>> | | same here. | | > what happens if you run | > | > echo subscribe | mail | > | > ??? | | It is caught by the filter. But if I send a simple message containing only | one word (subscribe) from pine, it is sent to the list. | | -- | Madarasz Gergely gorgo@caesar.elte.hu gorgo@linux.rulez.org | It's practically impossible to look at a penguin and feel angry. | Egy pingvinre gyakorlatilag lehetetlen haragosan nezni. | HuLUG: http://mlf.linux.rulez.org/ | | | _______________________________________________ | Mailman-Developers maillist - Mailman-Developers@python.org | http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers | From gorgo@caesar.elte.hu Fri Nov 13 19:18:32 1998 From: gorgo@caesar.elte.hu (Gergely Madarasz) Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 20:18:32 +0100 (MET) Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Re: [Mailman-Users] admin requests on the lists In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hello! I think I found it. In IsAdministrivia: lines = map(string.lower, msg.readlines()) This returns the whole message, and then checks for administrivia in it, including the headers. Some mailers add custom headers, mta-s add Received headers, so we cannot tell how many header lines there can be. And then it checks if lines_with_text > 10: headers will be counted too. So I guess this should be modified to check only the body of the message. Now I increased this number to 30, should work in most cases, but this is only a hack... :) -- Madarasz Gergely gorgo@caesar.elte.hu gorgo@linux.rulez.org It's practically impossible to look at a penguin and feel angry. Egy pingvinre gyakorlatilag lehetetlen haragosan nezni. HuLUG: http://mlf.linux.rulez.org/ From scott@chronis.pobox.com Fri Nov 13 19:24:26 1998 From: scott@chronis.pobox.com (Scott) Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 14:24:26 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Re: [Mailman-Users] admin requests on the lists In-Reply-To: ; from Gergely Madarasz on Fri, Nov 13, 1998 at 08:18:32PM +0100 References: Message-ID: <19981113142426.54429@chronis.icgroup.com> Ok, here's a better version. fixes the readlines thing, and strips the sig. # # given an IncomingMessage object, # test for administrivia (eg subscribe, unsubscribe, etc). # the test must be a good guess -- messages that return true # get sent to the list admin instead of the entire list. # def IsAdministrivia(msg): lines = map(string.lower, string.split(msg.body, "\n")) # # check to see how many lines that actually have text in them there are # admin_data = {"subscribe": (0, 3), "unsubscribe": (0, 1), "who": (0,0), "info": (0,0), "lists": (0,0), "set": (2, 3), "help": (0,0), "password": (2, 2), "options": (0,0), "remove": (0, 0)} lines_with_text = 0 print lines for line in lines: if string.strip(line): lines_with_text = lines_with_text + 1 if lines_with_text > 30: # we might want to change this to mm_cfg.DEFAULT_MAIL_COMMANDS_MAX_LINES. return 0 sig_ind = string.find(msg.body, "\n-- ") if sig_ind != -1: body = msg.body[:sig_ind] else: body = msg.body if admin_data.has_key(string.lower(string.strip(body))): return 1 try: if admin_data.has_key(string.lower(string.strip(msg["subject"]))): return 1 except KeyError: pass for line in lines[:5]: if not string.strip(line): continue words = string.split(line) if admin_data.has_key(words[0]): min_args, max_args = admin_data[words[0]] if min_args <= len(words[1:]) <= max_args: return 1 return 0 scott On Fri, Nov 13, 1998 at 08:18:32PM +0100, Gergely Madarasz wrote: | Hello! | | I think I found it. | In IsAdministrivia: | lines = map(string.lower, msg.readlines()) | This returns the whole message, and then checks for administrivia in it, | including the headers. Some mailers add custom headers, mta-s add Received | headers, so we cannot tell how many header lines there can be. And then it | checks | if lines_with_text > 10: | headers will be counted too. So I guess this should be modified to check | only the body of the message. Now I increased this number to 30, should | work in most cases, but this is only a hack... :) | | -- | Madarasz Gergely gorgo@caesar.elte.hu gorgo@linux.rulez.org | It's practically impossible to look at a penguin and feel angry. | Egy pingvinre gyakorlatilag lehetetlen haragosan nezni. | HuLUG: http://mlf.linux.rulez.org/ | | | _______________________________________________ | Mailman-Developers maillist - Mailman-Developers@python.org | http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers | From scott@chronis.pobox.com Fri Nov 13 19:25:34 1998 From: scott@chronis.pobox.com (Scott) Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 14:25:34 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Re: [Mailman-Users] admin requests on the lists In-Reply-To: <19981113142426.54429@chronis.icgroup.com>; from Scott on Fri, Nov 13, 1998 at 02:24:26PM -0500 References: <19981113142426.54429@chronis.icgroup.com> Message-ID: <19981113142534.32073@chronis.icgroup.com> forgot to take out that "print lines" line of code, it should be removed. scott On Fri, Nov 13, 1998 at 02:24:26PM -0500, Scott wrote: | | Ok, here's a better version. fixes the readlines thing, and strips the sig. | | # | # given an IncomingMessage object, | # test for administrivia (eg subscribe, unsubscribe, etc). | # the test must be a good guess -- messages that return true | # get sent to the list admin instead of the entire list. | # | def IsAdministrivia(msg): | lines = map(string.lower, string.split(msg.body, "\n")) | # | # check to see how many lines that actually have text in them there are | # | admin_data = {"subscribe": (0, 3), | "unsubscribe": (0, 1), | "who": (0,0), | "info": (0,0), | "lists": (0,0), | "set": (2, 3), | "help": (0,0), | "password": (2, 2), | "options": (0,0), | "remove": (0, 0)} | lines_with_text = 0 | print lines | for line in lines: | if string.strip(line): | lines_with_text = lines_with_text + 1 | if lines_with_text > 30: # we might want to change this to mm_cfg.DEFAULT_MAIL_COMMANDS_MAX_LINES. | return 0 | sig_ind = string.find(msg.body, "\n-- ") | if sig_ind != -1: | body = msg.body[:sig_ind] | else: | body = msg.body | if admin_data.has_key(string.lower(string.strip(body))): | return 1 | try: | if admin_data.has_key(string.lower(string.strip(msg["subject"]))): | return 1 | except KeyError: | pass | for line in lines[:5]: | if not string.strip(line): | continue | words = string.split(line) | if admin_data.has_key(words[0]): | min_args, max_args = admin_data[words[0]] | if min_args <= len(words[1:]) <= max_args: | return 1 | return 0 | | | scott | | | On Fri, Nov 13, 1998 at 08:18:32PM +0100, Gergely Madarasz wrote: | | Hello! | | | | I think I found it. | | In IsAdministrivia: | | lines = map(string.lower, msg.readlines()) | | This returns the whole message, and then checks for administrivia in it, | | including the headers. Some mailers add custom headers, mta-s add Received | | headers, so we cannot tell how many header lines there can be. And then it | | checks | | if lines_with_text > 10: | | headers will be counted too. So I guess this should be modified to check | | only the body of the message. Now I increased this number to 30, should | | work in most cases, but this is only a hack... :) | | | | -- | | Madarasz Gergely gorgo@caesar.elte.hu gorgo@linux.rulez.org | | It's practically impossible to look at a penguin and feel angry. | | Egy pingvinre gyakorlatilag lehetetlen haragosan nezni. | | HuLUG: http://mlf.linux.rulez.org/ | | | | | | _______________________________________________ | | Mailman-Developers maillist - Mailman-Developers@python.org | | http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers | | From grin@tolna.net Fri Nov 13 20:30:07 1998 From: grin@tolna.net (Peter Gervai) Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 21:30:07 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] mime decoded mail in the archieves? Message-ID: <19981113213007.I25958@mail.tolna.net> The new beta is fantastic, I mean, hey, it works even for me! :-)) Archieving is pretty, but I realized that it does not handle the MIME-encoded accented letters at all (or, at least, not when converting them from the old archives). Since half of the users is not able to use a decent mail software they don't use iso8859-2 but mime-encodeded iso8859-1: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Text looks like: "jelen=E9s=E9nek feladatait szervezi, ir=E1ny=EDtja" I - in my infinite lameness - suspect that writing a mime decoder wouldn't be impossible. Could it be _simply_ done? It could be one step closer to i18n but I don't know how much demand is there for that.... (Probably national language archives should face the same problem?) cya, grin From cklempay@acm.jhu.edu Fri Nov 13 22:15:11 1998 From: cklempay@acm.jhu.edu (Corbett J. Klempay) Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 17:15:11 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Mailman-Developers] /home/mailman/cron/senddigests Message-ID: Anyone seen this? I've been getting this every day for weeks. (happened with b5 and now with b6) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Corbett J. Klempay Quote of the Week: http://www2.acm.jhu.edu/~cklempay "Conscience is the inner voice that warns up that someone may be looking." PGP Fingerprint: 7DA2 DB6E 7F5E 8973 A8E7 347B 2429 7728 76C2 BEA1 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 12:00:02 -0500 From: Cron Daemon To: mailman@chimera.acm.jhu.edu Subject: Cron /usr/bin/python /home/mailman/cron/senddigests Traceback (innermost last): File "/home/mailman/cron/senddigests", line 37, in ? main() File "/home/mailman/cron/senddigests", line 34, in main list.SendDigestIfAny() File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Digester.py", line 194, in SendDigestIfAny self.SendDigestOnSize(0) File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Digester.py", line 206, in SendDigestOnSize self.SendDigest() File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Digester.py", line 288, in SendDigest self.DeliverToList(d.Present(mime=0), File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Deliverer.py", line 133, in DeliverToList status = cmdproc.close() IOError: (10, 'No child processes') From grin@tolna.net Fri Nov 13 22:32:23 1998 From: grin@tolna.net (Peter Gervai) Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 23:32:23 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] accents in 'terse listname' and debug question Message-ID: <19981113233223.Y25958@mail.tolna.net> Sorry, it's me again :) 1) Something weird happens when I enter accented characters into some fields, and re-edit them some times. Like I entered accents at the 'terse list description' and after 2-3 edit (I didn't watch) accents became \\236 and like... something to fix...? 2) I still don't know Python deep enough to decide whether this is possible, but it would be really nice that when the program panics with error, it would check the last line for variables and would dump their values as well. If it's an interpreted language it could possibly be done, and would really help to see what happened. (This occured to me when I looked with a dumb face at the message "Assertion error", being unable to decide what happened because didn't know the contents of the variables.) As always, these are just ideas to consider or discard, and no way demands. :) bye, grin From scott@chronis.pobox.com Sat Nov 14 07:29:27 1998 From: scott@chronis.pobox.com (Scott) Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 02:29:27 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] scaling issues Message-ID: <19981114022927.56576@chronis.icgroup.com> I'm setting up a list for mailman that has 27k subscribers. Just wanted to note that the first scaling issue i ran into was mass subscribing the members. A process calling "ApprovedAddMember" for each member was called, ran for many many many hours on a solaris sparc box with 128m ram and only made it through 6k subscribers. so i added them by hand. This should be interesting, but hey, after it's all over, we will all know exactly what should be done to make mailman more scalable. scott From jerrya@fastrans.net Sat Nov 14 17:29:51 1998 From: jerrya@fastrans.net (Jerry Adlersfluegel) Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 11:29:51 -0600 (CST) Subject: [Mailman-Developers] /home/mailman/cron/senddigests In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Yes, I still get that. I figured it would go away with b6, but it is still there. On Fri, 13 Nov 1998, Corbett J. Klempay wrote: > Anyone seen this? I've been getting this every day for weeks. (happened > with b5 and now with b6) > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Corbett J. Klempay Quote of the Week: > http://www2.acm.jhu.edu/~cklempay "Conscience is the inner voice that > warns up that someone may be looking." > > PGP Fingerprint: 7DA2 DB6E 7F5E 8973 A8E7 347B 2429 7728 76C2 BEA1 > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 12:00:02 -0500 > From: Cron Daemon > To: mailman@chimera.acm.jhu.edu > Subject: Cron /usr/bin/python /home/mailman/cron/senddigests > > Traceback (innermost last): > File "/home/mailman/cron/senddigests", line 37, in ? > main() > File "/home/mailman/cron/senddigests", line 34, in main > list.SendDigestIfAny() > File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Digester.py", line 194, in SendDigestIfAny > self.SendDigestOnSize(0) > File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Digester.py", line 206, in SendDigestOnSize > self.SendDigest() > File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Digester.py", line 288, in SendDigest > self.DeliverToList(d.Present(mime=0), > File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Deliverer.py", line 133, in DeliverToList > status = cmdproc.close() > IOError: (10, 'No child processes') > > > _______________________________________________ > Mailman-Developers maillist - Mailman-Developers@python.org > http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers > -- Jerry Adlersfluegel From tomas@euronetics.se Sun Nov 15 15:58:05 1998 From: tomas@euronetics.se (Tomas Fasth) Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 16:58:05 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] mime decoded mail in the archieves? Message-ID: <005e01be10b0$bbd24240$f6d52dc1@bishop.twinspot.net> Hi Peter! There is a module called 'mimetools' which is part of standard python distribution. It's capable of parsing multipart messages and decode encoded headers and text parts. I don't know if it's already in use by Mailman. If not, it been there for a while waiting to be utilized. ;-) Tomas -----Original Message----- From: Peter Gervai To: MailMan Dev List Date: den 13 november 1998 23:31 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] mime decoded mail in the archieves? >The new beta is fantastic, I mean, hey, it works even for me! :-)) > >Archieving is pretty, but I realized that it does not handle the >MIME-encoded accented letters at all (or, at least, not when converting them >from the old archives). Since half of the users is not able to use a decent >mail software they don't use iso8859-2 but mime-encodeded iso8859-1: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > >Text looks like: "jelen=E9s=E9nek feladatait szervezi, ir=E1ny=EDtja" > >I - in my infinite lameness - suspect that writing a mime decoder wouldn't >be impossible. Could it be _simply_ done? It could be one step closer to >i18n but I don't know how much demand is there for that.... (Probably >national language archives should face the same problem?) > >cya, >grin > >_______________________________________________ >Mailman-Developers maillist - Mailman-Developers@python.org >http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers > From gstein@lyra.org Sun Nov 15 20:48:37 1998 From: gstein@lyra.org (Greg Stein) Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 12:48:37 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] [Fwd: Cron /usr/bin/python /home/mailman/install/cron/senddigests] Message-ID: <364F3E25.4D45E34E@lyra.org> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------5DCBD02767986AA253217640 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Anybody ever see this one? thx -g -- Greg Stein, http://www.lyra.org/ --------------5DCBD02767986AA253217640 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Received: from ns1.lyra.org (root@ns1.lyra.org [208.192.43.10]) by svpal.svpal.org (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id LAA24689 for ; Sun, 15 Nov 1998 11:52:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from cartman.lyra.org (cartman.lyra.org [208.192.43.15]) by ns1.lyra.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA09735 for ; Sun, 15 Nov 1998 12:00:16 -0800 Received: (from root@localhost) by cartman.lyra.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA19290 for mailman; Sun, 15 Nov 1998 12:00:03 -0800 Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 12:00:03 -0800 Message-Id: <199811152000.MAA19290@cartman.lyra.org> From: root@cartman.lyra.org (Cron Daemon) To: mailman@cartman.lyra.org Subject: Cron /usr/bin/python /home/mailman/install/cron/senddigests X-Cron-Env: X-Cron-Env: X-Cron-Env: X-Cron-Env: Traceback (innermost last): File "/home/mailman/install/cron/senddigests", line 37, in ? main() File "/home/mailman/install/cron/senddigests", line 34, in main list.SendDigestIfAny() File "/home/mailman/install/Mailman/Digester.py", line 194, in SendDigestIfAny self.SendDigestOnSize(0) File "/home/mailman/install/Mailman/Digester.py", line 206, in SendDigestOnSize self.SendDigest() File "/home/mailman/install/Mailman/Digester.py", line 291, in SendDigest self.DeliverToList(d.Present(mime=1), File "/home/mailman/install/Mailman/Deliverer.py", line 133, in DeliverToList status = cmdproc.close() IOError: (10, 'No child processes') --------------5DCBD02767986AA253217640-- From bwarsaw@cnri.reston.va.us (Barry A. Warsaw) Mon Nov 16 19:32:30 1998 From: bwarsaw@cnri.reston.va.us (Barry A. Warsaw) (Barry A. Warsaw) Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 14:32:30 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Internationalization References: Message-ID: <13904.32206.326036.696607@anthem.cnri.reston.va.us> I was away at the Python conference all last week, so it's nice to see there are only about 113 Mailman messages to catch up on :-). I will say that I thought Ken's talk went well, and we certainly had a lot of interest from Pythoneers about Mailman. We had a lot of interesting off-line discussions about where Mailman is and where it could go. The following are my thoughts on what we need to do in the short term. I would like to have a stable 1.0 release by the time of the Usenix LISA 98 conference, where we have another paper and where John will (hopefully) be giving a talk. This isn't very far away so I feel we need to be *really* conservative in what we try to do before then. I agree with John that internationalizing Mailman should be a top priority, but I don't really think we can make much headway in the next 3 weeks or so. In my experience CVS branches suck so I try to avoid them, but if other core developers have more confidence in them, I'll go along for the ride. I think we should shoot for NO new features, but just banging the hell out of the current source tree, expecting to have all the current bugs shaken out in time for LISA. Once 1.0 is released, then we can talk about an architecture for supporting all the contributed translations. It's great to see there's a lot of enthusiasm for supporting languages other than English. -Barry From bwarsaw@cnri.reston.va.us (Barry A. Warsaw) Mon Nov 16 19:42:59 1998 From: bwarsaw@cnri.reston.va.us (Barry A. Warsaw) (Barry A. Warsaw) Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 14:42:59 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Mailman-Developers] b6 in and working...except archive access :( References: Message-ID: <13904.32835.757860.724906@anthem.cnri.reston.va.us> >>>>> "CJK" == Corbett J Klempay writes: CJK> Hey all..I just got b6 in, and after some finangling with the CJK> cgi-gid (for some reason, I have to tell it the number 99 CJK> instead of the word nobody (a look in /etc/group confirms CJK> that nobody == 99)..not sure what the story is with that, but CJK> it works now, so I'm not too worried) Please let me know if you're able to reproduce this. It certainly works for me: ./configure --prefix=/export/home/mailman --with-cgi-gid=nobody -Barry From bwarsaw@cnri.reston.va.us (Barry A. Warsaw) Mon Nov 16 20:44:33 1998 From: bwarsaw@cnri.reston.va.us (Barry A. Warsaw) (Barry A. Warsaw) Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 15:44:33 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Mailman-Developers] BUGS: URL vs file pathnames References: <36467135.53464EB3@lyra.org> Message-ID: <13904.36529.409783.884215@anthem.cnri.reston.va.us> >>>>> "GS" == Greg Stein writes: GS> Also, there is a general problem in the code with using GS> os.path.join to construct URLs. A URL is NOT a file path. You GS> don't want to use ":" or "\" if Mailman is run on a different GS> platform. The os.path.join should go away and string concat GS> should be used with "/". Shouldn't we be using urlparse.urljoin() for these? -Barry From gstein@lyra.org Tue Nov 17 03:18:41 1998 From: gstein@lyra.org (Greg Stein) Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 19:18:41 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] BUGS: URL vs file pathnames References: <36467135.53464EB3@lyra.org> <13904.36529.409783.884215@anthem.cnri.reston.va.us> Message-ID: <3650EB11.568A55A@lyra.org> Barry A. Warsaw wrote: > > >>>>> "GS" == Greg Stein writes: > > GS> Also, there is a general problem in the code with using > GS> os.path.join to construct URLs. A URL is NOT a file path. You > GS> don't want to use ":" or "\" if Mailman is run on a different > GS> platform. The os.path.join should go away and string concat > GS> should be used with "/". > > Shouldn't we be using urlparse.urljoin() for these? > > -Barry That would only be necessary if the second part is an unknown (possibly-absolute) URL. I wouldn't think it is necessary in this context. -g -- Greg Stein, http://www.lyra.org/ From bence@intercom.hu Tue Nov 17 12:52:55 1998 From: bence@intercom.hu (Hermann Benedek) Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 13:52:55 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Set digest via email, plain default Message-ID: <004301be1229$32db1410$2a3144c1@us-i2.intercom.hu> There are two problems with digest option in 1.0b6 (also this was a bug in ver 1.0b4 too). 1. I can't set digest mode via email. The 'set digest on pw' command returns with 'succeeded', but the next 'options' command shows, that digest is off. So, I can set digest mode only via the web. 2. When subscribing to digest, I receive the email in MIME. No matter which is the default format (mime/plain). I want the plain mode to be the default. Any patches? Bence From gorgo@caesar.elte.hu Tue Nov 17 20:00:36 1998 From: gorgo@caesar.elte.hu (Gergely Madarasz) Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 21:00:36 +0100 (MET) Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Set digest via email, plain default In-Reply-To: <004301be1229$32db1410$2a3144c1@us-i2.intercom.hu> Message-ID: This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text, while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools. Send mail to mime@docserver.cac.washington.edu for more info. ---1649071771-1887724716-911332836=:52754 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Tue, 17 Nov 1998, Hermann Benedek wrote: > 2. When subscribing to digest, I receive the email in MIME. No > matter which is the default format (mime/plain). I want the plain > mode to be the default. Here is a patch attached. -- Madarasz Gergely gorgo@caesar.elte.hu gorgo@linux.rulez.org It's practically impossible to look at a penguin and feel angry. Egy pingvinre gyakorlatilag lehetetlen haragosan nezni. HuLUG: http://mlf.linux.rulez.org/ ---1649071771-1887724716-911332836=:52754 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; name="digest.diff" Content-Transfer-Encoding: BASE64 Content-ID: Content-Description: LS0tIE1haWxMaXN0LnB5fglXZWQgTm92IDExIDIzOjI2OjA1IDE5OTgNCisr KyBNYWlsTGlzdC5weQlUdWUgTm92IDE3IDIwOjM3OjUyIDE5OTgNCkBAIC03 NzAsNiArNzcwLDcgQEANCiAJZWxzZToNCiAJICAgIHNlbGYubWVtYmVycy5h cHBlbmQobmFtZSkNCiAgICAgICAgICAgICBraW5kID0gIiINCisgICAgICAg IHNlbGYuU2V0VXNlck9wdGlvbihuYW1lLG1tX2NmZy5EaXNhYmxlTWltZSwx LXNlbGYubWltZV9pc19kZWZhdWx0X2RpZ2VzdCkNCiAgICAgICAgIHNlbGYu TG9nTXNnKCJzdWJzY3JpYmUiLCAiJXM6IG5ldyVzICVzIiwNCiAgICAgICAg ICAgICAgICAgICAgIHNlbGYuX2ludGVybmFsX25hbWUsIGtpbmQsIG5hbWUp DQogCXNlbGYucGFzc3dvcmRzW25hbWVdID0gcGFzc3dvcmQNCg== ---1649071771-1887724716-911332836=:52754-- From klm@python.org Tue Nov 17 21:16:18 1998 From: klm@python.org (Ken Manheimer) Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 16:16:18 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Set digest via email, plain default In-Reply-To: Message-ID: This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text, while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools. Send mail to mime@docserver.cac.washington.edu for more info. ---1649071771-1887724716-911332836=:52754 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-ID: On Tue, 17 Nov 1998, Gergely Madarasz wrote: > On Tue, 17 Nov 1998, Hermann Benedek wrote: > > > 2. When subscribing to digest, I receive the email in MIME. No > > matter which is the default format (mime/plain). I want the plain > > mode to be the default. > > Here is a patch attached. I've incorporated something like the patch, except that the setting is made whether or not the new user is starting in digest mode. The idea is that the initial setting is the one that will be offered on the options form, so the initial one should follow from the list default. Ken Manheimer klm@python.org 703 620-8990 x268 (orporation for National Research |nitiatives # If you appreciate Python, consider joining the PSA! # # . # ---1649071771-1887724716-911332836=:52754-- From scott@chronis.pobox.com Tue Nov 17 22:09:29 1998 From: scott@chronis.pobox.com (Scott) Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 17:09:29 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Mailman-Developers] cgi/mail delivery problem: an idea Message-ID: <19981117220929.4C931195F3@chronis.pobox.com> First I'd like to say sorry I've kindof dropped off keeping up with mailman over the last few days. I will come back, i've just been really busy with other stuff. At any rate, there's a problem with the way certain processes have to wait for the completion of delivery of a message (or even lotsa messages) before finishing. you'll note that mass subscribe, admindb, convert_list, and many other processes can trigger a mail delivery and that in many of those cases, waiting for the delivery causes problems (especially the cgi's). Here's an idea of how to deal with. i'm just bouncing this off everyone for now: add a mechanism that just queue's messages in mailman's mail queue, and let the run_queue cron job take care of it. some things to consider about this: 1) there's been talk of setting up mailman to allow command line delivery again (i'm all for this). we'd have to take that into account in run_queue. 2) the cgi's would no longer immediately make those deliveries, the deliveries would take place on the next cron job. this may not be entirely appropriate in some cases, like receiving a confirmation messages upon subscribing from the web. this is a problem that i believe should be addressed before v1 or whatever. what do y'all think? scott From julian7@kva.hu Wed Nov 18 00:15:31 1998 From: julian7@kva.hu (Balazs Nagy) Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 01:15:31 +0100 (CET) Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Internationalization In-Reply-To: <13904.32206.326036.696607@anthem.cnri.reston.va.us> Message-ID: On Mon, 16 Nov 1998, Barry A. Warsaw wrote: > The following are my thoughts on what we need to do in the short > term. I would like to have a stable 1.0 release by the time of the > Usenix LISA 98 conference, where we have another paper and where John > will (hopefully) be giving a talk. This isn't very far away so I feel > we need to be *really* conservative in what we try to do before then. Is this means MailMan got codeFreezeEvent()? ;) Iam sorry but now Iam hurry in writing the C++ code for my diploma work... > I think we should shoot for NO new features, but just banging the hell > out of the current source tree, expecting to have all the current bugs > shaken out in time for LISA. Once 1.0 is released, then we can talk > about an architecture for supporting all the contributed > translations. It's great to see there's a lot of enthusiasm for > supporting languages other than English. Well, I have a *lot* of stupid users who cannot get their password just because they don't understand MailMan's *Hungarian* error messages. By the way I like to see the code to be combed out, because I would like to hear some aims (for example global user data, archive functions via email, administration commands such as admin subscribe etc) what you want to do or not to do. After 1st December ;-) -- Linux Supporting Center -- Red Hat Qmail packages -- http://lsc.kva.hu PGP 0x1DE3631D / A8 B4 92 EE 1F 55 27 C8 86 64 9C 42 41 A4 BD B8 From bwarsaw@cnri.reston.va.us (Barry A. Warsaw) Tue Nov 17 23:30:18 1998 From: bwarsaw@cnri.reston.va.us (Barry A. Warsaw) (Barry A. Warsaw) Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 18:30:18 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Internationalization References: <13904.32206.326036.696607@anthem.cnri.reston.va.us> Message-ID: <13906.1802.865997.255839@anthem.cnri.reston.va.us> >>>>> "BN" == Balazs Nagy writes: BN> Is this means MailMan got codeFreezeEvent()? I hope so, but I'm not sure if the other core maintainers agree with me :-) BN> ;) Iam sorry but BN> now Iam hurry in writing the C++ code for my diploma work... Good luck! BN> Well, I have a *lot* of stupid users who cannot get their BN> password just because they don't understand MailMan's BN> *Hungarian* error messages. I understand (I think :-). Internationalization should be a priority for us after the 1.0 release. BN> By the way I like to see the code to be combed out, because I BN> would like to hear some aims (for example global user data, BN> archive functions via email, administration commands such as BN> admin subscribe etc) what you want to do or not to do. After BN> 1st December ;-) Well, I know that Ken and I have a lot of thoughts on where to go after 1.0. I think we might be having a core confab this weekend, and I'm hoping we'll get a chance to sit in front of a whiteboard and thrash about our ideas, and hopefully agree on a direction. Stay tuned. -Barry From gorgo@caesar.elte.hu Wed Nov 18 00:34:05 1998 From: gorgo@caesar.elte.hu (Gergely Madarasz) Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 01:34:05 +0100 (MET) Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Set digest via email, plain default In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 17 Nov 1998, Ken Manheimer wrote: > On Tue, 17 Nov 1998, Gergely Madarasz wrote: > > > On Tue, 17 Nov 1998, Hermann Benedek wrote: > > > > > 2. When subscribing to digest, I receive the email in MIME. No > > > matter which is the default format (mime/plain). I want the plain > > > mode to be the default. > > > > Here is a patch attached. > > I've incorporated something like the patch, except that the setting is > made whether or not the new user is starting in digest mode. The idea > is that the initial setting is the one that will be offered on the > options form, so the initial one should follow from the list default. Hmm... I thought my patch did this :) -- Madarasz Gergely gorgo@caesar.elte.hu gorgo@linux.rulez.org It's practically impossible to look at a penguin and feel angry. Egy pingvinre gyakorlatilag lehetetlen haragosan nezni. HuLUG: http://mlf.linux.rulez.org/ From gstein@lyra.org Wed Nov 18 00:54:06 1998 From: gstein@lyra.org (Greg Stein) Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 16:54:06 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] traceback while sending digests Message-ID: <36521AAE.3027B040@lyra.org> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------953083736D1E1B92BD1B245 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I sent this once before and didn't hear anything. I just got my third copy of this. Looking at the mailman-developers archive, it appears that others are getting it to. Can we get some kind of word on what the problem is? thx -g -- Greg Stein, http://www.lyra.org/ --------------953083736D1E1B92BD1B245 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Received: from ns1.lyra.org (root@ns1.lyra.org [208.192.43.10]) by svpal.svpal.org (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id LAA27797 for ; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 11:58:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from cartman.lyra.org (cartman.lyra.org [208.192.43.15]) by ns1.lyra.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA20978 for ; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 12:00:21 -0800 Received: (from root@localhost) by cartman.lyra.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA21642 for mailman; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 12:00:02 -0800 Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 12:00:02 -0800 Message-Id: <199811172000.MAA21642@cartman.lyra.org> From: root@cartman.lyra.org (Cron Daemon) To: mailman@cartman.lyra.org Subject: Cron /usr/bin/python /home/mailman/install/cron/senddigests X-Cron-Env: X-Cron-Env: X-Cron-Env: X-Cron-Env: Traceback (innermost last): File "/home/mailman/install/cron/senddigests", line 37, in ? main() File "/home/mailman/install/cron/senddigests", line 34, in main list.SendDigestIfAny() File "/home/mailman/install/Mailman/Digester.py", line 194, in SendDigestIfAny self.SendDigestOnSize(0) File "/home/mailman/install/Mailman/Digester.py", line 206, in SendDigestOnSize self.SendDigest() File "/home/mailman/install/Mailman/Digester.py", line 291, in SendDigest self.DeliverToList(d.Present(mime=1), File "/home/mailman/install/Mailman/Deliverer.py", line 133, in DeliverToList status = cmdproc.close() IOError: (10, 'No child processes') --------------953083736D1E1B92BD1B245-- From scott@chronis.pobox.com Wed Nov 18 03:00:45 1998 From: scott@chronis.pobox.com (Scott) Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 22:00:45 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] traceback while sending digests In-Reply-To: <36521AAE.3027B040@lyra.org>; from Greg Stein on Tue, Nov 17, 1998 at 04:54:06PM -0800 References: <36521AAE.3027B040@lyra.org> Message-ID: <19981117220045.42017@chronis.icgroup.com> On Tue, Nov 17, 1998 at 04:54:06PM -0800, Greg Stein wrote: | I sent this once before and didn't hear anything. I just got my third | copy of this. Looking at the mailman-developers archive, it appears that | others are getting it to. | | Can we get some kind of word on what the problem is? | sorry i haven't had time to be more responsive. i've got a lot of other work on my hands at the moment, so i'll throw in my best educated guess instead of a thorough analysis, and hope it helps. First off, i believe that this problem is either system dependent or showing itself through list configs that i don't have. i'm not seeing this under linux or solaris2.5.1, and both installations have taken a bit of a beating. secondly, this problem probably results from calling os.popen(, "w") where does this right off the bat: if not os.fork(): # do the work os._exit(0) the way i understand os._exit(0) is that it should only be used for child processes, not parent processes, when a fork() is done. Perhaps there are some underlying things in the system or list configs which cause the parent program to exit before the child is done reading stdin. at any rate, if those who are experiencing this problem could try replacing the os._exit(0) in the function "main()" in scripts/deliver with "sys.exit(0)" or some such, this *might* fix the problem. I *think* that should be changed anyway, but could be mistaken. that's my best educated guess. if it don't help, i hope to be able to address more of this later this week, but can't promise anything yet. good luck, scott | thx | -g | | -- | Greg Stein, http://www.lyra.org/ | Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 12:00:02 -0800 | From: root@cartman.lyra.org (Cron Daemon) | To: mailman@cartman.lyra.org | Subject: Cron /usr/bin/python /home/mailman/install/cron/senddigests | X-Cron-Env: | X-Cron-Env: | X-Cron-Env: | X-Cron-Env: | | Traceback (innermost last): | File "/home/mailman/install/cron/senddigests", line 37, in ? | main() | File "/home/mailman/install/cron/senddigests", line 34, in main | list.SendDigestIfAny() | File "/home/mailman/install/Mailman/Digester.py", line 194, in SendDigestIfAny | self.SendDigestOnSize(0) | File "/home/mailman/install/Mailman/Digester.py", line 206, in SendDigestOnSize | self.SendDigest() | File "/home/mailman/install/Mailman/Digester.py", line 291, in SendDigest | self.DeliverToList(d.Present(mime=1), | File "/home/mailman/install/Mailman/Deliverer.py", line 133, in DeliverToList | status = cmdproc.close() | IOError: (10, 'No child processes') | From klm@python.org Wed Nov 18 16:12:06 1998 From: klm@python.org (Ken Manheimer) Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 11:12:06 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Set digest via email, plain default In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 18 Nov 1998, Gergely Madarasz wrote: > On Tue, 17 Nov 1998, Ken Manheimer wrote: > > > I've incorporated something like the patch, except that the setting is > > made whether or not the new user is starting in digest mode. The idea > > is that the initial setting is the one that will be offered on the > > options form, so the initial one should follow from the list default. > > Hmm... I thought my patch did this :) My mistake - my mail reader folded the line, and i mistook where the indentation went. In any case, i should have said before - thanks for the fix! Ken From gstein@lyra.org Thu Nov 19 02:32:17 1998 From: gstein@lyra.org (Greg Stein) Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 18:32:17 -0800 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Loop error (read: take out your machine) Message-ID: <36538331.59119B5D@lyra.org> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------6264A394769C943610B3D561 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit If a user submits a subscription request where the name does not include a fully-qualified domain name, then everything blows up hard. Mailman fails to recognize the bounce properly, attempts to parse it, fails, sends a response, that bounces, it parses, it replies... BLAM. Your machine's load average skyrockets and your mail queue starts to explode. Even worse is that it doesn't terminate. I had to shut down the sendmail listener, clean the mail queue, and clear mailman's pending mail queue. You also have to watch out from cron in case it tells mailman to process its queue :-). Back in August, this bug took out my system (had to reset and cold boot). Happened again today, but I was able to catch it after about 15 minutes of grinding. I've also since adjusted my since to queue at a lower load average (so that I can actually get a time slice and some virtual mem while I correct the problem). Is there a tweak that I can apply to the bounce detection to fix the loop? thx -g -- Greg Stein, http://www.lyra.org/ --------------6264A394769C943610B3D561 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Received: from ns1.lyra.org (root@ns1.lyra.org [208.192.43.10]) by svpal.svpal.org (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id LAA29777 for ; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 11:00:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by ns1.lyra.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id LAA28442 for ; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 11:02:19 -0800 Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 11:02:17 -0800 (PST) From: root To: gstein@lyra.org Subject: Mailman results for Hognews (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 10:10:25 -0800 From: hognews-request@eastsideharley.com To: mailer-daemon@ns1.lyra.org Subject: Mailman results for Hognews **** Subject line ignored: Returned mail: ... User unknown >>>> This is a MIME-encapsulated message **** this: Command UNKNOWN. >>>> --KAB26510.911412616/ns1.lyra.org **** --kab26510.911412616/ns1.lyra.org: Command UNKNOWN. >>>> The original message was received at Wed, 18 Nov 1998 10:10:15 -0800 **** the: Command UNKNOWN. >>>> from localhost [127.0.0.1] **** from: Command UNKNOWN. >>>> ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors ----- **** -----: Command UNKNOWN. >>>> **** : Command UNKNOWN. >>>> ----- Transcript of session follows ----- **** -----: Command UNKNOWN. >>>> <<< RCPT TO: **** <<<: Command UNKNOWN. >>>> 550 ... User unknown **** 550: Command UNKNOWN. >>>> 421 ns1.lyra.org Lost input channel from localhost [127..0.0.1] **** 421: Command UNKNOWN. >>>> ns1.lyra.org Lost input channel from localhost [127.0.0.1] **** ns1.lyra.org: Command UNKNOWN. >>>> --KAB26510.911412616/ns1.lyra.org **** --kab26510.911412616/ns1.lyra.org: Command UNKNOWN. >>>> Content-Type: message/delivery-status **** content-type:: Command UNKNOWN. >>>> Reporting-MTA: dns; ns1.lyra.org **** reporting-mta:: Command UNKNOWN. >>>> Received-From-MTA: DNS; localhost **** received-from-mta:: Command UNKNOWN. >>>> Arrival-Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 10:10:15 -0800 **** arrival-date:: Command UNKNOWN. >>>> Final-Recipient: RFC822; crab51@ns1.lyra.org **** final-recipient:: Command UNKNOWN. >>>> Action: failed **** action:: Command UNKNOWN. >>>> Status: 5.1.1 **** status:: Command UNKNOWN. >>>> Last-Attempt-Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 10:10:17 -0800 **** last-attempt-date:: Command UNKNOWN. >>>> --KAB26510.911412616/ns1.lyra.org-- **** --kab26510.911412616/ns1.lyra.org--: Command UNKNOWN. --------------6264A394769C943610B3D561-- From gorgo@caesar.elte.hu Fri Nov 20 23:23:15 1998 From: gorgo@caesar.elte.hu (Gergely Madarasz) Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 00:23:15 +0100 (MET) Subject: [Mailman-Developers] bounce detection Message-ID: Hello! Anyone working on setting up the bounce detector for qmail/exim error messages ? I can send examples. -- Madarasz Gergely gorgo@caesar.elte.hu gorgo@linux.rulez.org It's practically impossible to look at a penguin and feel angry. Egy pingvinre gyakorlatilag lehetetlen haragosan nezni. HuLUG: http://mlf.linux.rulez.org/ From scott@chronis.pobox.com Sat Nov 21 15:36:59 1998 From: scott@chronis.pobox.com (Scott) Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 10:36:59 -0500 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] liststar mailling list manager Message-ID: <19981121103659.58358@chronis.icgroup.com> From the web site, it looks pretty nice.... http://www.nausicaa.net/~listar/ scott From Olivier.Salaun@cru.fr Mon Nov 23 14:27:22 1998 From: Olivier.Salaun@cru.fr (Olivier Salaun - CRU) Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 15:27:22 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Re: Mailman-Developers digest, Vol 1 #166 - 2 msgs In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sat, 21 Nov 1998 12:00:10 EST." <199811211700.MAA14508@python.org> Message-ID: <199811231427.PAA22207@home.cru.fr> > Anyone working on setting up the bounce detector for qmail/exim error > messages ? I can send examples. I developed such a bounce manager, AnaBounce. It recognises Exim and othere MTA's bounce formats. Bounces are analysed, classified (by level of recognition). A CGI gives access to results and makes it possible to unsubscribe bad addresses from the list (provided that the list is managed with SYMPA). I haven't translated the README in english yet..... ftp://ftp.cru.fr/pub/cru/Listes/anabounce/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Olivier SALAÜN Comité Réseau des Universités Tel: 02 99 84 71 27 Campus de Beaulieu 35042 Rennes Cedex Francopholistes http://www.cru.fr/listes/ From Harald.Meland@usit.uio.no Sun Nov 29 21:32:07 1998 From: Harald.Meland@usit.uio.no (Harald Meland) Date: 29 Nov 1998 22:32:07 +0100 Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Sender: header duplication Message-ID: This is a MIME multipart message. If you are reading this, you shouldn't. --=-=-= Currently, whenever Mailman delivers a message to a list, a list-specific `Sender' header is appended. As RFC822 specifies that there should only be at most `Sender' header in any message, appending is not right if there already is such a header present (e.g. whenever the senders MUA added a `Sender' header). The included (untested, but simplistic) patch (against current CVS Mailman) tries to fix this. [ However, I suspect my patch might not work for messages already containing multiple `Sender' headers when Mailman receives them, as Message.SetHeader doesn't appear to really be "crushing duplicates" in those cases. ] To cater for umbrella lists, similar fixes should probably be applied to the `Errors-To' and `X-Mailman-Version' header appending in Mailman.Deliverer.DeliverToList(). -- Harald --=-=-= --- Mailman/Deliverer.py.orig Sun Nov 29 22:12:12 1998 +++ Mailman/Deliverer.py Sun Nov 29 22:11:17 1998 @@ -110,7 +110,7 @@ if self.reply_goes_to_list: del msg['reply-to'] msg.headers.append('Reply-To: %s\n' % self.GetListEmail()) - msg.headers.append('Sender: %s\n' % self.GetAdminEmail()) + msg.SetHeader('Sender', self.GetAdminEmail()) if not msg.getheader('list-id'): msg.headers.append('List-Id: %s\n' % self.GetListIdentifier()) msg.headers.append('Errors-To: %s\n' % self.GetAdminEmail()) --=-=-=--