From jeff at corrt.com  Thu Jan  1 23:20:19 2004
From: jeff at corrt.com (Jeff Kunce)
Date: Thu Jan  1 23:20:53 2004
Subject: [Image-SIG] PIL: jpeg comment
In-Reply-To: <20031223221724.GA2701@nl.linux.org>
Message-ID: <000601c3d0e7$c4aab350$b9c3930a@jjkc100>

I don't know for sure, but try looking in the "app" attribute (a
dictionary) of an image object. For example:
  im = Image.open('myimage.jpg')
  print im.app
EXIF data is stored there, so maybe comments are, too

  --Jeff

> -----Original Message-----
> From: image-sig-bounces@python.org
[mailto:image-sig-bounces@python.org]
> On Behalf Of Gerrit Holl
> Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2003 4:17 PM
> To: image-sig@python.org
> Cc: python-list@python.org
> Subject: [Image-SIG] PIL: jpeg comment
> 
> Hi,
> 
> how do I read a JPEG comment with the Python Imaging Library?
> 
> yours,
> Gerrit Holl.
> 
> --
> Asperger's Syndrome - a personal approach:
> 	http://people.nl.linux.org/~gerrit/english/
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Image-SIG maillist  -  Image-SIG@python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/image-sig




From joelrodrigues at ifrance.com  Thu Jan  1 02:12:10 2004
From: joelrodrigues at ifrance.com (Joel Rodrigues)
Date: Fri Jan  2 02:14:57 2004
Subject: [Image-SIG] PIL: jpeg comment
In-Reply-To: <20031223221724.GA2701@nl.linux.org>
Message-ID: <D0FEB110-3C29-11D8-82C2-0005024EF27F@ifrance.com>

Hi,

The best option in Python may be to use EXIF.py (& exiftool.py) from

http://home.cfl.rr.com/genecash/digital_camera.html


Cheers & Happy New Year !
- joel

On Wednesday, December 24, 2003, at 03:47 , Gerrit Holl wrote:

> Hi,
>
> how do I read a JPEG comment with the Python Imaging Library?
>
> yours,
> Gerrit Holl.
>
> --
> Asperger's Syndrome - a personal approach:
> 	http://people.nl.linux.org/~gerrit/english/
>
> _______________________________________________
> Image-SIG maillist  -  Image-SIG@python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/image-sig
>

_____________________________________________________________________
Envie de discuter en "live" avec vos amis ? T閘閏harger MSN Messenger
http://www.ifrance.com/_reloc/m la 1鑢e messagerie instantan閑 de France


From fredrik at pythonware.com  Fri Jan  2 12:12:27 2004
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Fri Jan  2 12:12:38 2004
Subject: [Image-SIG] Re: PIL: jpeg comment
References: <20031223221724.GA2701@nl.linux.org>
	<000601c3d0e7$c4aab350$b9c3930a@jjkc100>
Message-ID: <bt48q0$p4l$1@sea.gmane.org>

Jeff Kunce wrote:

> I don't know for sure, but try looking in the "app" attribute (a
> dictionary) of an image object. For example:
>   im = Image.open('myimage.jpg')
>   print im.app
> EXIF data is stored there, so maybe comments are, too

this has been added in 1.1.5, but earlier versions ignore the comment
markers.  here's a patch:

==== //modules/pil/PIL/JpegImagePlugin.py#6 - f:\pythonware\modules\pil\PIL\JpegImagePlugin.py ====
@@ -87,6 +89,15 @@
         else:
             self.info["adobe_transform"] = adobe_transform

+def COM(self, marker):
+    #
+    # Comment marker.  Store these in the APP dictionary.
+
+    s = self.fp.read(i16(self.fp.read(2))-2)
+
+    self.app["COM"] = s # compatibility
+    self.applist.append(("COM", s))
+
 def SOF(self, marker):
     #
     # Start of frame marker.  Defines the size and mode of the
@@ -208,7 +219,7 @@
     0xFFFB: ("JPG11", "Extension 11", None),
     0xFFFC: ("JPG12", "Extension 12", None),
     0xFFFD: ("JPG13", "Extension 13", None),
-    0xFFFE: ("COM", "Comment", Skip)
+    0xFFFE: ("COM", "Comment", COM)
 }

</F>




From cbass233 at yahoo.com  Sat Jan  3 15:18:34 2004
From: cbass233 at yahoo.com (Chuck Bass)
Date: Sat Jan  3 15:18:37 2004
Subject: [Image-SIG] Re: Image-SIG Digest, Vol 9, Issue 2
In-Reply-To: <E1AcpA8-0007A2-2B@mail.python.org>
Message-ID: <20040103201834.38852.qmail@web13906.mail.yahoo.com>


Is 1.1.5 released?  I've found references on the web but no downloads.

>> this has been added in 1.1.5, but earlier versions ignore the comment
>> markers. here's a patch:


__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Find out what made the Top Yahoo! Searches of 2003
http://search.yahoo.com/top2003

From smurf at smurf.noris.de  Wed Jan  7 07:43:03 2004
From: smurf at smurf.noris.de (Matthias Urlichs)
Date: Wed Jan  7 07:59:41 2004
Subject: [Image-SIG] Image parser bug (Debian Bug #176456)
Message-ID: <20040107124303.GB3365@play.smurf.noris.de>

Hi,

from http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=176456:

> The attached test script and .png file demonstrate the bug: Image.open()
> succeeds while ImageFile.Parser().feed(data) throws an IOError.
> Seems like an upstream bug to me.
> Anyway, here it is for Debian reference.

I am the (new) maintainer of the python-imaging package for Debian,
which basically packages PIL, and this problem is still unfixed.
(I wonder if it has been reported in the first place.)

Can somebody who knows more about PIL's internals look into this?
Thanks!

[ Please keep 176456@bugs.d.o in the Cc: when you reply. Thanks. ]

-- 
Matthias Urlichs   |   {M:U} IT Design @ m-u-it.de   |  smurf@smurf.noris.de
Disclaimer: The quote was selected randomly. Really. | http://smurf.noris.de
 - -
Keep on keepin' on.

From hec.villafuerte at telgua.com.gt  Thu Jan  8 11:39:01 2004
From: hec.villafuerte at telgua.com.gt (=?UTF-8?B?IkjDqWN0b3IgVmlsbGFmdWVydGUgRC4i?=)
Date: Thu Jan  8 09:37:19 2004
Subject: [Image-SIG] Re: [Tutor] Converting to PDF
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0401071720340.15436-100000@hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0401071720340.15436-100000@hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu>
Message-ID: <3FFD87A5.8020706@telgua.com.gt>

Hi all!
Danny was so right! This is a bug in PIL.
I changed '/DctDecode' and '/DCTDecode' in PdfImagePlugin.py
and it worked just fine!
Thanks Danny and all you Python people.
Hector


Danny Yoo wrote:

>
>On Wed, 7 Jan 2004, [ISO-8859-1] "H?ctor Villafuerte D." wrote:
>
>
>>Hi all,
>>I'm trying to generate PDFs with this little script:
>>
>>-----SCRIPT-------------------------
>>import fileinput, os, Image
>>
>>def get_calls(dir, file):
>>    im = Image.open(dir + file)
>>    im.save(dir + '_' + file, 'PDF')
>>
>>if __name__ == '__main__':
>>    dir = 'c:\\tmp\\scan\\'
>>    for x in os.listdir(dir):
>>        if x.split('.')[1] == 'jpg':
>>            print x
>>            get_calls(dir, x)
>>
>
>
>Hi Hector,
>
>
>I looked into the PdfImagePlugin.py source from version 1.1.4 of the
>Python Imaging Library,
>
>    http://www.pythonware.com/products/pil/
>
>
>And you appear to have run into a bug in PIL!  The code in question in
>PIL/PdfImagePlugin.py is:
>
>###
>    if filter == "/ASCIIHexDecode":
>        ImageFile._save(im, op, [("hex", (0,0)+im.size, 0, None)])
>    elif filter == "/DCTDecode":
>        ImageFile._save(im, op, [("jpeg", (0,0)+im.size, 0, im.mode)])
>    elif filter == "/FlateDecode":
>        ImageFile._save(im, op, [("zip", (0,0)+im.size, 0, im.mode)])
>    elif filter == "/RunLengthDecode":
>        ImageFile._save(im, op, [("packbits", (0,0)+im.size, 0, im.mode)])
>    else:
>        raise ValueError, "unsupported PDF filter"
>###
>
>
>That block is within the _safe() function in PdfImagePlugin.py.  But
>there's only one block of code that assigns to this 'filter' variable:
>
>###
>    if im.mode == "1":
>        filter = "/ASCIIHexDecode"
>        config = "/DeviceGray", "/ImageB", 1
>    elif im.mode == "L":
>        filter = "/DctDecode"
>        # params = "<< /Predictor 15 /Columns %d >>" % (width-2)
>        config = "/DeviceGray", "/ImageB", 8
>    elif im.mode == "P":
>        filter = "/ASCIIHexDecode"
>        config = "/Indexed", "/ImageI", 8
>    elif im.mode == "RGB":
>        filter = "/DCTDecode"
>        config = "/DeviceRGB", "/ImageC", 8
>    elif im.mode == "CMYK":
>        filter = "/DCTDecode"
>        config = "/DeviceRGB", "/ImageC", 8
>    else:
>        raise ValueError, "illegal mode"
>###
>
>
>'filter' here has three possible values:
>
>    ['/ASCIIHexDecode',
>     '/DctDecode',
>     '/DCTDecode']
>
>
>Notice the case difference here between '/DctDecode' and '/DCTDecode'.
>Python is case sensitive.  This is a bad sign.  *grin*
>
>
>The block that we're running into problems with, the one that throws the
>exception, checks for:
>
>    ["/ASCIIHexDecode",
>     "/DCTDecode",
>     "/FlateDecode",
>     "/RunLengthDecode"]
>
>
>It doesn't handle "/DctDecode"!  Furthermore, there's no way 'filter' can
>be '/RunLengthDecode', so there's some dead code here too.
>
>There's definitely a bug here.  Send a holler out to the Python Imaging
>Library folks.  *grin*
>
>    http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/image-sig
>
>and get them to fix it so no one else runs into this.
>
>
>
>In the meantime, my best guess right now to fix the bug is to modify
>PdfImagePlugin.py and switch over the '/DctDecode' string to '/DCTDecode'
>and see if that clears up the problem.  Unfortunately, I can't test this
>hypothesis without a sample JPEG image.
>
>
>
>
>
>By the way: you may want use os.path.join() to join together the directory
>name with the file name.  The code in get_calls():
>
>
>>def get_calls(dir, file):
>>    im = Image.open(dir + file)
>>    im.save(dir + '_' + file, 'PDF')
>>
>
>may not get the correct name of the directory, since the path separator
>might be missing.
>
>I can see that you have hardcoded the path separator embedded in the 'dir'
>directory name within your main program, but if you are using get_calls()
>from another program, then there's no guarantee that the directory name
>ends with the path separator character.
>
>
>
>Hope this helps!
>
>
>
>



From wangshifang_2008 at yahoo.com.cn  Wed Jan  7 19:42:15 2004
From: wangshifang_2008 at yahoo.com.cn (=?gb2312?q?=CA=BF=B7=BC=20=CD=F5?=)
Date: Sun Jan 11 11:40:11 2004
Subject: [Image-SIG] problems with import
Message-ID: <20040108004215.61524.qmail@web15308.mail.bjs.yahoo.com>

Hi:
 when I type
  1 import _imaging
      Traceback (most recent call last):
      File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
      ImportError: DLL load failed: 找不到指定的模块。
  2  import Image
      im = Image.open("c:\powered1.jpg")
       im.show()
       Traceback (most recent call last):
       File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
       File "E:\PYTHON22\Lib\site-packages\PIL\Image.py", line 1192, in show
       _showxv(self, title, command)
      File "E:\PYTHON22\Lib\site-packages\PIL\Image.py", line 1739, in   _showxv
     file = self._dump(format=format)
     File "E:\PYTHON22\Lib\site-packages\PIL\Image.py", line 410, in  _dump
     self.load()
     File "E:\PYTHON22\Lib\site-packages\PIL\ImageFile.py", line 151, in load
     self.load_prepare()
     File "E:\PYTHON22\Lib\site-packages\PIL\ImageFile.py", line 206, in   load_prepa
    re
    self.im = Image.core.new(self.mode, self.size)
     File "E:\PYTHON22\Lib\site-packages\PIL\Image.py", line 39, in  __getattr__
     raise ImportError("The _imaging C module is not installed")
ImportError: The _imaging C module is not installed
3.sys.path:
['', 'E:\\PYTHON22\\lib\\site-packages\\Pythonwin', 'E:\\PYTHON22\\lib\\site-pac
kages\\win32', 'E:\\PYTHON22\\lib\\site-packages\\win32\\lib', 'E:\\PYTHON22\\li
b\\site-packages', 'E:\\Python22\\DLLs', 'E:\\Python22\\lib', 'E:\\Python22\\lib
\\lib-tk', 'E:\\Python22', 'E:\\Python22\\lib\\site-packages\\Numeric', 'E:\\Pyt
hon22\\lib\\site-packages\\PIL']
my _imaging.pyd is under :  E:\Python22\Lib\site-packages\PIL
 
 
what should i  do?
Thanks


__________________________________________________
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-------------- next part --------------
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From fredrik at pythonware.com  Sun Jan 11 14:50:02 2004
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Sun Jan 11 14:53:23 2004
Subject: [Image-SIG] Re: problems with import
References: <20040108004215.61524.qmail@web15308.mail.bjs.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <bts9jd$dns$1@sea.gmane.org>

wangshifang_2008@yahoo.com.cn wrote:

> when I type
> 1 import _imaging
>     Traceback (most recent call last):
>     File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
>     ImportError: DLL load failed: <chinese message snipped>
> 2  import Image
>     im = Image.open("c:\powered1.jpg")
>     im.show()
>    Traceback (most recent call last):
     ...
>    ImportError: The _imaging C module is not installed

> what should i do?

this page might help:

    http://effbot.org/zone/pil-imaging-not-installed.htm

if not, the text after "DLL load failed" might contain the necessary
clues.

</F>




From fredrik at pythonware.com  Sun Jan 11 14:53:05 2004
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Sun Jan 11 15:00:18 2004
Subject: [Image-SIG] Re: Is 1.1.5 released?
References: <E1AcpA8-0007A2-2B@mail.python.org>
	<20040103201834.38852.qmail@web13906.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <bts9jh$dns$2@sea.gmane.org>

Chuck Bass wrote:

> Is 1.1.5 released?  I've found references on the web but no downloads.

1.1.5 is in "internal alpha", and will stay so for another month or two
(while I'm getting up to speed at my new job).

</F>




From ewc at axelero.hu  Thu Jan 15 11:09:47 2004
From: ewc at axelero.hu (ewc@axelero.hu)
Date: Thu Jan 15 11:09:44 2004
Subject: [Image-SIG] Incorrect PIL font handling
Message-ID: <1286567754.20040115170947@axelero.hu>


Hello,

I have some problems with italic fonts. Some parts of some characters
are missing. For example font ncenI24.pil (from pilfonts:
http://effbot.org/downloads/pilfonts.zip).  When I draw character 'f',
the left bottom part of charter is missing (the right top part is OK).
When I draw 'ff', the 1st f's left bottom and right top part is
missing while the 2nd f's left bottom part is missing.

I took a look into source codes and found, that if a character has
pozition smaller than 0 (zero), in that case the hanging out part is
cut off (in case of f 12 pixels). This was for the left side of
characters. On the right side there is similar problem.

I wrote a very dirty hack:
a C function which returns the glyph object and also a C function
which returns some glyph information (e.g. dx0, baseline). I wrote
also a simple python script which draws characters by character basis.
In this way I was able to make a workaround, but I don't like this
hack.

Could anybody take a look for this problem?

Kind regards,
        Thomas

ps: I used Imaging-1.1.4 and Python-2.3.3



From infoHaugen at golfgod.net  Sun Jan 18 07:15:12 2004
From: infoHaugen at golfgod.net (Quest)
Date: Sun Jan 18 11:54:36 2004
Subject: [Image-SIG] Info regarding vigra
Message-ID: <eycln.298504932fsmxeqqjw@Questxnytoppdr>

how Vigra? works. So you can better understand, what Vigra can do for you. If you are sensible about your health, reflect on what you can do for your seual health, to keep the chances that you will need Vigra as low as possible. fleecy connote Englewood, political. 

 Inrease Seks Drive
 Bost Seual Performance
 Fuller & Harder Erecions
 Inrease Stamna & Endurance
 Quicker Rechages 
 
 http://www.securemedpills.com/index.php?pid=pharmaboss

combined denounces scrutiny, Morse. furnished outruns bricklayer, inhaler.

Thanks,
frightful



From britney21Bundestag at yahoo.com  Mon Jan 19 00:21:56 2004
From: britney21Bundestag at yahoo.com (Image-sig)
Date: Mon Jan 19 05:24:34 2004
Subject: [Image-SIG] Fwd: Want to have S E X,  20 times a day ?
Message-ID: <egrai.4875855uurbxglqu@Image-sighbzyqtsx>

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From clean_actrepaying at wildmail.com  Tue Jan 20 16:33:58 2004
From: clean_actrepaying at wildmail.com (Equest)
Date: Tue Jan 20 09:06:04 2004
Subject: [Image-SIG] Don't get busted ! ! . . . . . . . . . aviary
Message-ID: <nzhfpgjdm.435224erxlsoixsq@Equestzctpyxev>

An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/image-sig/attachments/20040120/038cc9a6/attachment.html
From francois.mourougaya at laposte.net  Wed Jan 21 13:03:40 2004
From: francois.mourougaya at laposte.net (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Fran=E7ois_Mourougaya?=)
Date: Wed Jan 21 12:40:05 2004
Subject: [Image-SIG] floodfill routine ?
Message-ID: <01f501c3e048$e6d6a680$2831a7c2@EON.sp2mi.univ-poitiers.fr>

Hi everyone,
does anybody have a floodfill routine in python (i.e. takes a binary array
and throws an array with labeled regions), that would not be too slow ?
Thanks.

Fran?ois Mourougaya
PhD student,
SIC-laboratory
Poitiers-France


From allaugh at wongfaye.com  Wed Jan 21 05:32:48 2004
From: allaugh at wongfaye.com (Python-dev)
Date: Thu Jan 22 08:31:53 2004
Subject: [Image-SIG] nesws regarding vigros Bretons
Message-ID: <irrvft.7251458jmaavuziug@Python-devvaoxswe>

simplest,

How Vigras works. And you can better understand, what Vigras can do for you. If you are sensible about your health, reflect on what you can do for your seual health, to keep the chances that you will need Vigras as low as possible. dancers circuitous bleats, relented. 

 http://www.effectiveherbs.com/index.php?pid=genviag

 Inrease Seks Drive
 Bost Seual Performance
 Fuller & Harder Erecions
 Inrease Stamna & Endurance
 Quicker Rechages 
 

conspire Syrianizes plucking, genders. Burch soles Georgia, prophetic.

Happy holidays,
Goethe



From droyko at uottawa.ca  Fri Jan 23 16:07:52 2004
From: droyko at uottawa.ca (Dominik Royko)
Date: Fri Jan 23 16:07:28 2004
Subject: [Image-SIG] ImageFilter.MaxFilter and MedianFilter
Message-ID: <40118D28.B3FD562D@uottawa.ca>

I noticed that images filtered with ImageFilter.MedianFilter(3)
differed from those filtered with ImageFilter.RankFilter(3,4).
(Rank values seem to go from 0 to (size*2)-1).

Further inspection reveals:
>>> ImageFilter.MaxFilter(3).rank
2
>>> ImageFilter.MaxFilter(5).rank
4
>>> ImageFilter.MedianFilter(3).rank
1
>>> ImageFilter.MedianFilter(5).rank
2

Should these not be 4, 12, & 8, 24?  Am I missing something?
Suggested patch follows.

Dominik Royko.


--- PIL/ImageFilter.py  2002-11-17 13:55:42.000000000 -0500
+++ PIL-patch/ImageFilter.py    2004-01-23 15:27:16.000000000 -0500
@@ -92,7 +92,7 @@ class MedianFilter(RankFilter):

     def __init__(self, size=3):
         self.size = size
-        self.rank = size/2
+        self.rank = (size*size)/2

 ##
 # Min filter.  Picks the lowest pixel value in a window with the given
@@ -124,7 +124,7 @@ class MaxFilter(RankFilter):

     def __init__(self, size=3):
         self.size = size
-        self.rank = size-1
+        self.rank = (size*size)-1

 ##
 # Mode filter.  Picks the most frequent pixel value in a box with the

From ralucitrapnienoon at yahoo.co.uk  Fri Jan 23 20:56:12 2004
From: ralucitrapnienoon at yahoo.co.uk (centiare)
Date: Sat Jan 24 20:59:26 2004
Subject: [Image-SIG] vermicule
Message-ID: <20040125015922.612B147FF41@pfepa.post.tele.dk>

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From fredrik at pythonware.com  Sun Jan 25 16:37:46 2004
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Sun Jan 25 16:38:31 2004
Subject: [Image-SIG] Re: ImageFilter.MaxFilter and MedianFilter
References: <40118D28.B3FD562D@uottawa.ca>
Message-ID: <bv1d01$lhq$1@sea.gmane.org>

Dominik Royko wrote:

> Am I missing something?

the Rank and Mode filters were not supposed to ship with 1.1.4; they're
not included in the changes document, they're not documented, they're
not officially supported, and they don't work properly.

(this is why the docs say "new in 1.1.5")

</F>




From lists at andreas-jung.com  Mon Jan 26 02:35:42 2004
From: lists at andreas-jung.com (Andreas Jung)
Date: Mon Jan 26 02:35:48 2004
Subject: [Image-SIG] PIL Error in loadfat()
Message-ID: <2147483647.1075106142@[192.168.0.102]>

OleFileIO.py:


    def loadfat(self, header):
        # Load the FAT table.  The header contains a sector numbers
        # for the first 109 FAT sectors.  Additional sectors are
        # described by DIF blocks (FIXME: not yet implemented)

        sect = header[76:512]
        fat = []
        for i in range(0, len(sect), 4):
            ix = i32(sect, i)
            if ix == 0xFFFFFFFEL or x == 0xFFFFFFFFL:
                                                      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

should be 'ix' and not 'x'

-aj

From Chris.Barker at noaa.gov  Mon Jan 26 12:54:22 2004
From: Chris.Barker at noaa.gov (Chris Barker)
Date: Mon Jan 26 12:57:19 2004
Subject: [Image-SIG] Manipulating JPEGs w/out decompressing?
In-Reply-To: <bt48q0$p4l$1@sea.gmane.org>
References: <20031223221724.GA2701@nl.linux.org>	<000601c3d0e7$c4aab350$b9c3930a@jjkc100>
	<bt48q0$p4l$1@sea.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <4015544E.9080801@noaa.gov>

HI all,

is it possible , with {PIL (or any other Python-based tool) to do simple 
manipulations to a JPEG, without decompressing it. What I'm imagining is 
  simply rotation and cropping, at the moment.

My understanding of JPEG compression is that if you compress and 
de-compress multiple times, more information is lost each time. If I 
understand this right, it seems a shame to degrade an image just to 
rotate or crop it.

As an example, I'm imagining a python version of jpegr jpegtrans/jpegcrop:

http://sylvana.net/jpegcrop/

thanks,

-Chris











-- 
Christopher Barker, Ph.D.
Oceanographer
                                     		
NOAA/OR&R/HAZMAT         (206) 526-6959   voice
7600 Sand Point Way NE   (206) 526-6329   fax
Seattle, WA  98115       (206) 526-6317   main reception

Chris.Barker@noaa.gov


From digulla at hepe.com  Mon Jan 26 13:24:40 2004
From: digulla at hepe.com (Aaron Optimizer Digulla)
Date: Mon Jan 26 13:24:51 2004
Subject: [Image-SIG] Manipulating JPEGs w/out decompressing?
In-Reply-To: <4015544E.9080801@noaa.gov>
References: <20031223221724.GA2701@nl.linux.org>
	<000601c3d0e7$c4aab350$b9c3930a@jjkc100>
	<bt48q0$p4l$1@sea.gmane.org> <4015544E.9080801@noaa.gov>
Message-ID: <20040126182440.GA2661@sebigbos.hepe.com>

On Mon, Jan 26, 2004 at 09:54:22AM -0800, Chris Barker wrote:

> As an example, I'm imagining a python version of jpegr jpegtrans/jpegcrop:

How about calling jpegtrans via system()?

-- 
Aaron "Optimizer" Digulla a.k.a. Philmann Dark
"It's not the universe that's limited, it's our imagination.
Follow me and I'll show you something beyond the limits." 
http://www.philmann-dark.de/

From Chris.Barker at noaa.gov  Mon Jan 26 14:30:06 2004
From: Chris.Barker at noaa.gov (Chris Barker)
Date: Mon Jan 26 14:33:00 2004
Subject: [Image-SIG] Manipulating JPEGs w/out decompressing?
In-Reply-To: <20040126182440.GA2661@sebigbos.hepe.com>
References: <20031223221724.GA2701@nl.linux.org>
	<000601c3d0e7$c4aab350$b9c3930a@jjkc100>
	<bt48q0$p4l$1@sea.gmane.org> <4015544E.9080801@noaa.gov>
	<20040126182440.GA2661@sebigbos.hepe.com>
Message-ID: <40156ABE.20602@noaa.gov>

Aaron Optimizer Digulla wrote:
> How about calling jpegtrans via system()?

That's what I'm doing at the moment, but I'm hoping for a more self 
contained, cross platfrom approach.

-Chris




-- 
Christopher Barker, Ph.D.
Oceanographer
                                     		
NOAA/OR&R/HAZMAT         (206) 526-6959   voice
7600 Sand Point Way NE   (206) 526-6329   fax
Seattle, WA  98115       (206) 526-6317   main reception

Chris.Barker@noaa.gov


From chris at cogdon.org  Mon Jan 26 14:45:50 2004
From: chris at cogdon.org (Chris Cogdon)
Date: Mon Jan 26 14:45:54 2004
Subject: [Image-SIG] Manipulating JPEGs w/out decompressing?
In-Reply-To: <4015544E.9080801@noaa.gov>
References: <20031223221724.GA2701@nl.linux.org>	<000601c3d0e7$c4aab350$b9c3930a@jjkc100>
	<bt48q0$p4l$1@sea.gmane.org> <4015544E.9080801@noaa.gov>
Message-ID: <3E4CAE36-5038-11D8-8992-000A95E3823E@cogdon.org>


On Jan 26, 2004, at 09:54, Chris Barker wrote:

> My understanding of JPEG compression is that if you compress and 
> de-compress multiple times, more information is lost each time. If I 
> understand this right, it seems a shame to degrade an image just to 
> rotate or crop it.

The way that I understand JPEG is that the encoding for any particular 
pixel depends on 'state' that is set up from the previous pixels. In 
other words, if you were to crop off 1 or 2 pixels at the left hand 
side of the image, all the following pixels MUST be re-encoded... which 
means you get the re-compression that you were trying to avoid.

Doubly so for rotations.

In my view, JPEG images were never intended to be re-edited.

-- 
    ("`-/")_.-'"``-._        Chris Cogdon <chris@cogdon.org>
     . . `; -._    )-;-,_`)
    (v_,)'  _  )`-.\  ``-'
   _.- _..-_/ / ((.'
((,.-'   ((,/   fL


From smurf at smurf.noris.de  Mon Jan 26 15:35:05 2004
From: smurf at smurf.noris.de (Smurf)
Date: Mon Jan 26 15:36:41 2004
Subject: [Image-SIG] Manipulating JPEGs w/out decompressing?
In-Reply-To: <3E4CAE36-5038-11D8-8992-000A95E3823E@cogdon.org>
References: <20031223221724.GA2701@nl.linux.org>
	<000601c3d0e7$c4aab350$b9c3930a@jjkc100>
	<bt48q0$p4l$1@sea.gmane.org> <4015544E.9080801@noaa.gov>
	<3E4CAE36-5038-11D8-8992-000A95E3823E@cogdon.org>
Message-ID: <20040126203504.GA18886@server.smurf.noris.de>

Hi,

Chris Cogdon:
> The way that I understand JPEG is that the encoding for any particular 
> pixel depends on 'state' that is set up from the previous pixels. In 
> other words, if you were to crop off 1 or 2 pixels at the left hand 
> side of the image, all the following pixels MUST be re-encoded... which 
> means you get the re-compression that you were trying to avoid.
> 
> Doubly so for rotations.
> 
JPEG is based on 8x8 cells. (Hence the blocky artefacts.)

So you can in fact chop them by 8-pixel boundaries, and 90-degree rotate
them by swapping the coefficients in the individual blocks as well as
the blocks themselves, and probably some other minor stuff.

JPEG2000, now, that's a wholly different kettle of fish.

-- 
Matthias Urlichs     |     noris network AG     |     http://smurf.noris.de/

From chris at cogdon.org  Mon Jan 26 17:35:19 2004
From: chris at cogdon.org (Chris Cogdon)
Date: Mon Jan 26 17:35:29 2004
Subject: [Image-SIG] Manipulating JPEGs w/out decompressing?
In-Reply-To: <20040126203504.GA18886@server.smurf.noris.de>
References: <20031223221724.GA2701@nl.linux.org>
	<000601c3d0e7$c4aab350$b9c3930a@jjkc100>
	<bt48q0$p4l$1@sea.gmane.org> <4015544E.9080801@noaa.gov>
	<3E4CAE36-5038-11D8-8992-000A95E3823E@cogdon.org>
	<20040126203504.GA18886@server.smurf.noris.de>
Message-ID: <EBBF94D0-504F-11D8-8992-000A95E3823E@cogdon.org>


On Jan 26, 2004, at 12:35, Smurf wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Chris Cogdon:
>> The way that I understand JPEG is that the encoding for any particular
>> pixel depends on 'state' that is set up from the previous pixels. In
>> other words, if you were to crop off 1 or 2 pixels at the left hand
>> side of the image, all the following pixels MUST be re-encoded... 
>> which
>> means you get the re-compression that you were trying to avoid.
>>
>> Doubly so for rotations.
>>
> JPEG is based on 8x8 cells. (Hence the blocky artefacts.)
>
> So you can in fact chop them by 8-pixel boundaries, and 90-degree 
> rotate
> them by swapping the coefficients in the individual blocks as well as
> the blocks themselves, and probably some other minor stuff.

I don't think it's as simple as that.

Firstly, even within the 8x8 cells, you need to rotate THAT as an 
element, meaning the association within the surrounding pixels is 
changed.

Secondly, there is SOME 'holistic information' kept from cell to cell, 
or at least across the entire picture; I've seen corrupted JPEGs where 
the 'base colour' after a particular point has gone wildly awry.

So... while I think it's a great goal, I believe doing editing beyond 
simply adding or subtracting profile information cannot be achieved 
without decoding then encoding again.


-- 
    ("`-/")_.-'"``-._        Chris Cogdon <chris@cogdon.org>
     . . `; -._    )-;-,_`)
    (v_,)'  _  )`-.\  ``-'
   _.- _..-_/ / ((.'
((,.-'   ((,/   fL


From smurf at smurf.noris.de  Mon Jan 26 20:44:34 2004
From: smurf at smurf.noris.de (Smurf)
Date: Mon Jan 26 20:50:22 2004
Subject: [Image-SIG] Manipulating JPEGs w/out decompressing?
In-Reply-To: <EBBF94D0-504F-11D8-8992-000A95E3823E@cogdon.org>
References: <20031223221724.GA2701@nl.linux.org>
	<000601c3d0e7$c4aab350$b9c3930a@jjkc100>
	<bt48q0$p4l$1@sea.gmane.org> <4015544E.9080801@noaa.gov>
	<3E4CAE36-5038-11D8-8992-000A95E3823E@cogdon.org>
	<20040126203504.GA18886@server.smurf.noris.de>
	<EBBF94D0-504F-11D8-8992-000A95E3823E@cogdon.org>
Message-ID: <20040127014434.GA21632@server.smurf.noris.de>

Hi,

Chris Cogdon:
> >them by swapping the coefficients in the individual blocks as well as
> >the blocks themselves, and probably some other minor stuff.
> 
> I don't think it's as simple as that.
> 
> Firstly, even within the 8x8 cells, you need to rotate THAT as an 
> element, meaning the association within the surrounding pixels is 
> changed.
> 
That's what I believe I said.

> So... while I think it's a great goal, I believe doing editing beyond 
> simply adding or subtracting profile information cannot be achieved 
> without decoding then encoding again.
> 
jpegtools can do it, so it's evidently possible.
(I didn't say it was easy. :- / )

-- 
Matthias Urlichs     |     noris network AG     |     http://smurf.noris.de/

From areopagus125 at yahoo.com  Wed Jan 28 01:34:30 2004
From: areopagus125 at yahoo.com (David Smith)
Date: Wed Jan 28 01:34:34 2004
Subject: [Image-SIG] Manipulating JPEGs w/out decompressing?
In-Reply-To: <EBBF94D0-504F-11D8-8992-000A95E3823E@cogdon.org>
Message-ID: <20040128063430.75888.qmail@web12208.mail.yahoo.com>


> >> In
other words, if you were to crop off 1 or 2
> pixels at the left hand
> >> side of the image, all the following pixels MUST 
be re-encoded... 
> >> which
> >> means you get the re-compression that you were
trying to avoid.

True.

> >> Doubly so for rotations.

If the image is rotated 90 degrees CCW, the new
horizontal coefficients are the old vertical, while
the new vertical coefficients have to encode a mirror
reversal of the old horizontal coefficients.  I don't
know whether this can be done without changing
quantized coefficients.

> Secondly, there is SOME 'holistic information' kept
> from cell to cell, 
> or at least across the entire picture; I've seen
> corrupted JPEGs where 
> the 'base colour' after a particular point has gone
> wildly awry.

That's true of any losslessly compressed file that
gets corrupted in transmission.

Jpeg's information loss consists of quantizing and
thresholding the coefficients in the 8x8 block.  The
compression (entropy encoding) of those coefficients
(which uses context from previously encoded blocks)
proceeds without further loss.

HTH, but I don't claim to be an expert.  

David Smith


__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it!
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From areopagus125 at yahoo.com  Wed Jan 28 01:42:46 2004
From: areopagus125 at yahoo.com (David Smith)
Date: Wed Jan 28 01:42:56 2004
Subject: [Image-SIG] Manipulating JPEGs w/out decompressing?
In-Reply-To: <20040128063430.75888.qmail@web12208.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20040128064246.80889.qmail@web12207.mail.yahoo.com>


--- David Smith <areopagus125@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > >> Doubly so for rotations.
> 
> If the image is rotated 90 degrees CCW, the new
> horizontal coefficients are the old vertical, while
> the new vertical coefficients have to encode a
> mirror
> reversal of the old horizontal coefficients.  I
> don't
> know whether this can be done without changing
> quantized coefficients.

Come to think of it, mirror reversal causes 1-d DCT
coefficients to be negated, suggesting rotation can be
done without further loss.  But 2-d coeffs, I'm still
not sure.

David Smith


__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it!
http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ps/sb/

From EGRAHAM at supernet.com  Fri Jan 30 04:37:55 2004
From: EGRAHAM at supernet.com (Emmett Sabo)
Date: Fri Jan 30 20:37:19 2004
Subject: [Image-SIG] Re [10]:
Message-ID: <4348703306.62522302125023@supernet.com>

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From CGStartup at earthlink.net  Sat Jan 31 11:23:51 2004
From: CGStartup at earthlink.net (Stan Schwartz)
Date: Sat Jan 31 11:24:04 2004
Subject: [Image-SIG] Programmers Wanted for Computer Graphics Startup Near
	Philadelphia
Message-ID: <p05010400bc41866bec6a@[192.168.0.2]>

My name is Stan Schwartz, and I'm a University of Pennsylvania
Ph.D. and an independent inventor.  I'm submitting two computer
graphics patents to the USPTO during the next several weeks.
Technologies derived from these patents have application in
several different market segments, including still image
photomanipulation, movie special effects and post-production,
web animation, and video games.  I'm developing and marketing one
or more of the applications through a startup company.  I've
produced demo output that clearly demonstrates the viability of
my approaches, which I've been showing to potential licensees and
investors.  This demo output is currently being generated through
a loosely connected series of scripts.  To be productized the
scripts will need to be recoded into standalone "industrial
strength" applications that are much faster, bullet-proof,
and that have slick GUIs.  I'm looking for a lead/senior
programmer to participate in and organize the implementation
side of the startup and probably one or more junior programmers.
Successful candidates for the programming team should have some
to many of the following skills/characteristics:


Extensible knowledge of/comfort with math, as exemplified by one
or more of:
     Computer vision training/experience - feature location/
     extraction, motion estimation, object recognition;
     Image processing training/experience - you know what a
     convolution kernel is; you've implemented a morphing
     algorithm;
     Linear algebra training/experience - matrix manipulation,
     familiarity with numeric computation packages, such as
     Numerical Python, or equivalent;
     Art/math programming play, mathematical visualization;
3D modeling, especially for character animation, especially if
you've hacked/manipulated low-level 3D data representations in a
variety of formats;
GUI design/building, graphic design training a plus;
Analysis of algorithms;
C/C++, Linux/Unix a plus;
(Note that I did most of the scripting mentioned above in
Python through PIL and Numerical Python and would consider
doing as much as we can of this in Python.)
Startup and/or major fielded product development experience
required for the lead/senior programmer, a plus for juniors;
Within commuting distance of Philadelphia - we may move and/or
outsource, but this is where/how we'll start;
Relevant educational background is a plus, but I'm more
interested in what you can demonstrate to me that you know, can
do, and have done, than what you've formally studied;
Intellectual flexibility, creativity, and ability to work and
brainstorm collaboratively;
Open-ended time commitment - After growing this, I have
additional ideas in the queue that could be spun off into future
products; and
Demonstrable artistic skills and training in figurative painting,
sculpture, and/or life-drawing are a plus.


We have access to seed capital, and we'd prefer if participants
accept some portion of salary as equity in our venture.  If
you're interested in participating, send me a cover letter and
resume at cgstartup@earthlink.net.  I'm willing to show you the
demo and provide more details about the technology, although
first you'll have to sign a non-disclosure agreement.  The demo
can also be posted temporarily to the web for online viewing,
accompanied by an explanatory phone call.


For Investors/Licensees:
If you're a potential investor in the startup or a representative
of a company that is potentially interested in licensing one of
the applications and are interested in seeing the demo and
hearing a description of the technologies, also under conditions
of non-disclosure, please let me know through the means described
above.


Thanks for your time,
Stan

P.S.  Some examples of my Python work with images, although not
directly related to this venture are at
<http://www.ryze.com/go/metastan> and 
<http://www.ryze.com/postdisplay.php?confid=777&messageid=208102>.