From jack@oratrix.nl  Wed Mar  1 09:35:05 2000
From: jack@oratrix.nl (Jack Jansen)
Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2000 10:35:05 +0100
Subject: [Image-SIG] trouble using PIL on windows
In-Reply-To: Message by "Jeffrey Kunce" <kuncej@mail.conservation.state.mo.us>
 ,
 Tue, 29 Feb 2000 11:23:16 -0600 , <s8bba93e.042@mail.conservation.state.mo.us>
Message-ID: <20000301093505.74B9C371868@snelboot.oratrix.nl>

You could also try "python -vv" if that is possible on Windows. "python -v" 
will trace all the import statements, i.e. tell you where all modules were 
loaded from, and "python -vv" will also tell you where it looked (but didn't 
find any module).

This should probably tell you why _imaging.pyd isn't found.
--
Jack Jansen             | ++++ stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal ++++
Jack.Jansen@oratrix.com | ++++ if you agree copy these lines to your sig ++++
www.oratrix.nl/~jack    | see http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/spg-l/sigaction.htm 




From fredrik@pythonware.com  Wed Mar  1 11:25:01 2000
From: fredrik@pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2000 12:25:01 +0100
Subject: [Image-SIG] trouble using PIL on windows
References: <000001bf82dd$187d6e80$b5776395@newton>
Message-ID: <00ab01bf8370$c94e9750$f29b12c2@secret.pythonware.com>

Reza Habib <reza@psych.utoronto.ca> wrote:
> Does anyone seem to know why there are these problems with the PIL =
module.
> None of the other modules I've used have been this difficult to setup?

the pil distribution from our site is a patch to our own
py15 distribution (available from the same place). if you
just unpack it on top of the py15 directories, it should
work.

others have told me that this patch works just fine with
the python.org distribution, but I haven't tried it myself
(I don't use the standard distribution, by obvious reasons).

I'm still looking for volunteers to create an installer that
fits right in with the python.org distro... (the linux folks
can handle this, you know ;-).  anyone?

(it shouldn't take more than an hour or two to set things
up, which makes it a rather easy way to earn a lot of cred
points ;-)

</F>



From rm1@student.cs.ucc.ie  Thu Mar  2 15:30:43 2000
From: rm1@student.cs.ucc.ie (Robert Moloney)
Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2000 15:30:43 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [Image-SIG] PIL on the MAC
Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.3.96.1000302152901.30171A-100000@student.cs.ucc.ie>

Hi

How do I install PIL on the mac?
Do I need a C compiler?

Cheers

Rob



From kuncej@mail.conservation.state.mo.us  Fri Mar  3 16:48:45 2000
From: kuncej@mail.conservation.state.mo.us (Jeffrey Kunce)
Date: Fri, 03 Mar 2000 10:48:45 -0600
Subject: [Image-SIG] trouble using PIL on windows
Message-ID: <s8bf98a1.004@mail.conservation.state.mo.us>

 >I'm still looking for volunteers to create an installer that
 >fits right in with the python.org distro... (the linux folks
 >can handle this, you know ;-).  anyone?

Would you want to use WISE? Or jump on the distutils bandwagon?

It wont be hard to simply install the PIL files. This "DLL load failed" =
problem
may be trickier to deal with. Should "import FixTk" be added to Image.py
for windows installations? That seems to fix it for most people. I guess
the bigger question was raised by Cristian Echeverria:

>A question for the SecretLab People: Why _imaging.dll is linked
>to the tcl/tk DLLs ? That means that PIL did t work without tcl/tk?


  --Jeff




From jessw@ritchie.loop.com  Sat Mar  4 12:41:57 2000
From: jessw@ritchie.loop.com (Jesse W)
Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2000 12:41:57 +0000
Subject: [Image-SIG] PIL Install Woes
Message-ID: <200003042042.MAA11606@stevie.loop.com>

I am trying to install PIL 2b4-win32 and when I run viewer.py I get 
this error.

Traceback (innermost last):
  File "viewer.py", line 44, in ?
    UI(root, im).pack()
  File "viewer.py", line 23, in __init__
    self.image = ImageTk.PhotoImage(im.convert("L"))
  File "C:\Python\Programs\Imaging-2b4\Lib\ImageTk.py", line 83, in __init__
   self.paste(image)
  File "C:\Python\Programs\Imaging-2b4\Lib\ImageTk.py", line 113, in  paste
   self.__photo.tk.call("PyImagingPhoto", self.__photo, block.id)
   TclError: invalid command name "PyImagingPhoto"

   I have tried to find instences of PyImagingPhoto in the source, but there 
are none.  I have done what it says in the install notes, and can import 
Image.
	If anyone has any solutions to this error, please let me know.

									Jesse Weinstein






From fredrik@pythonware.com  Wed Mar  8 11:56:50 2000
From: fredrik@pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 12:56:50 +0100
Subject: [Image-SIG] trouble using PIL on windows
References: <s8bf98a1.005@mail.conservation.state.mo.us>
Message-ID: <001601bf88f5$65de5d60$f29b12c2@secret.pythonware.com>

Jeffrey Kunce wrote:
> >I'm still looking for volunteers to create an installer that
>  >fits right in with the python.org distro... (the linux folks
>  >can handle this, you know ;-).  anyone?
>=20
> Would you want to use WISE? Or jump on the distutils bandwagon?

I think I would prefer something like the win32all distribution,
which means WISE.

> It wont be hard to simply install the PIL files. This "DLL load =
failed" problem
> may be trickier to deal with. Should "import FixTk" be added to =
Image.py
> for windows installations? That seems to fix it for most people.

sounds reasonable -- but see (4) below.

> I guess the bigger question was raised by Cristian Echeverria:
>=20
> A question for the SecretLab People: Why _imaging.dll is linked
> to the tcl/tk DLLs ? That means that PIL did t work without tcl/tk?

PIL 1.0 can be built in three ways:

    1) without Tkinter support
    2) with Tkinter support in the _tkinter DLL
    3) with Tkinter support in the _imaging DLL

(2) was used for earlier windows distributions, (3) is used
for the current Windows distribution.

1.0.1 will support a fourth alternative:

    4) with Tkinter support in a separate _imaging_tk DLL.

(thanks to the debian folks, who tricked me in to
implementing it ;-)

with this on in place, FixTk should probably be imported
from ImageTk, not Image.

however, I probably don't have time to do a full release
of 1.0.1 before next month, but I can definitely provide
the necessary patches if someone wants to work on a
better windows installation.  just let me know.

</F>



From fredrik@pythonware.com  Wed Mar  8 12:00:08 2000
From: fredrik@pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 13:00:08 +0100
Subject: [Image-SIG] PIL Install Woes
References: <200003042042.MAA11606@stevie.loop.com>
Message-ID: <002001bf88f5$da6e9af0$f29b12c2@secret.pythonware.com>

Jesse wrote:
> I am trying to install PIL 2b4-win32 and when I run viewer.py I get=20
> this error.

0.2b4 is over three years old or so.  where did you find it?

> Traceback (innermost last):
>   File "viewer.py", line 44, in ?
>     UI(root, im).pack()
>   File "viewer.py", line 23, in __init__
>     self.image =3D ImageTk.PhotoImage(im.convert("L"))
>   File "C:\Python\Programs\Imaging-2b4\Lib\ImageTk.py", line 83, in =
__init__
>    self.paste(image)
>   File "C:\Python\Programs\Imaging-2b4\Lib\ImageTk.py", line 113, in  =
paste
>    self.__photo.tk.call("PyImagingPhoto", self.__photo, block.id)
>    TclError: invalid command name "PyImagingPhoto"
>=20
> I have tried to find instences of PyImagingPhoto in the source, but =
there=20
> are none.  I have done what it says in the install notes, and can =
import=20
> Image.

this means that _tkinter doesn't know about PIL.  if you insist
on using 0.2b4, you need a patched version of _tkinter.  the
standard version you get with Python won't work.

but it's probably better to get the 1.0 distribution from
http://www.pythonware.com/downloads.htm

(also see the "trouble using PIL on windows" thread)

</F>



From fredrik@pythonware.com  Wed Mar  8 12:11:32 2000
From: fredrik@pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 13:11:32 +0100
Subject: [Image-SIG] PIL on the MAC
References: <Pine.OSF.3.96.1000302152901.30171A-100000@student.cs.ucc.ie>
Message-ID: <002701bf88f7$75f03780$f29b12c2@secret.pythonware.com>

Robert Moloney wrote:
> How do I install PIL on the mac?
> Do I need a C compiler?

if you wish to build it from sources, yes.

afaik, a precompiled version is included in the standard
distribution for macintosh:

    http://www.python.org/download/download_mac.html
    http://www.cwi.nl/~jack/macpython.html

(so maybe you already have it?  what happens
if you import the "Image" module? ;-)

</F>



From jessw@loop.com  Sat Mar 11 12:18:01 2000
From: jessw@loop.com (Jesse W)
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 12:18:01 +0000
Subject: [Image-SIG] PIL Install Woes
In-Reply-To: <002001bf88f5$da6e9af0$f29b12c2@secret.pythonware.com>
Message-ID: <200003112019.MAA60398@ritchie.loop.com>

	I did not realize that .2b4 was old.  I got it on 
http://python.org/sigs/image-sig/Imaging.html
the downlode that was available on the page, as opposed to the link 
to pythonware.com, was for version 2b4.  It would be more kind to 
newbies if you but a stronger warning about downloading the 
old version. <sheepish grin>  But, on a happier note, I downloaded 
the new version and it works.

				Thank you very much,
							Jesse Weinstein


> Jesse wrote:
> > I am trying to install PIL 2b4-win32 and when I run viewer.py I get 
> > this error.
> 
> 0.2b4 is over three years old or so.  where did you find it?



From KCAZA@cymbolic.com  Wed Mar 15 19:34:19 2000
From: KCAZA@cymbolic.com (Kevin Cazabon)
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 11:34:19 -0800
Subject: [Image-SIG] PilFont...
Message-ID: <s8cf755a.081@cymbolic.com>

Just wondering if there's any more documentation on PilFont than this (which is in
the current manuals posted on PythonWare):

Converts BDF or PCF font files to a format that can be used with PIL's ImageFont
module. 

    $ pilfont *.pdf

I remember last year a discussion of providing a library of pre-PIL-ed fonts... are
there copyright problems with X-Windows fonts?  Assuming I can get things working
(which was a problem on my Windows box last time I tried), I'd be happy to help out
with the conversions.


Kevin
                                                                                     
                                                                                     
                                                                                     
                                                                                     
                                                                                     
                                                                                     
                                                                                     
                                                                                     
                                                                                     
                                                                                     
                                                                                     
                                                                                     
                                                                                     
                                                                                     
                                                         


From dougal@blackhawk.jeffsikes.com  Fri Mar 17 16:11:14 2000
From: dougal@blackhawk.jeffsikes.com (Dougal Campbel)
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 10:11:14 -0600 (EST)
Subject: [Image-SIG] MODCA/IOCA formats?
In-Reply-To: <s8cf755a.081@cymbolic.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10003171008570.32006-100000@blackhawk.jeffsikes.com>

Does anyone know anyplace where I get code for converting MODCA files to
other formats (preferably JPEG or GIF)? It doesn't necessarily have to
be through PIL, any references would be appreciated.

-- 
Ernest MacDougal Campbell III, MCP <dougal@gunters.org>
http://www.gunters.org/~dougal/
"The medium is not the message. The *message* is the message."



From KCAZA@cymbolic.com  Fri Mar 17 18:03:10 2000
From: KCAZA@cymbolic.com (Kevin Cazabon)
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 10:03:10 -0800
Subject: [Image-SIG] Pil format fonts... creating a high-res library for all to
 use...
Message-ID: <s8d202e2.015@cymbolic.com>

As I mentioned earlier in the week, I wish to create a library of high-resolution PIL
fonts for the PIL world to use.  To this end, I've purchased a program that will RIP
Windows fonts into BDF format at any resolution... and it works quite well!

However, there's some problems with the formatting in their BDF files, which I need
some clarafication on so that I can 'hobble' BdfFontFile.py to accept them.  

Fred, if there's anything you can provide for suggestions, I'd greatly appreciate it!


-It does not provide proper "ENCODING" values:  all are -1.  I don't see this as a
big problem, as it RIPS all 255 characters whether they're present or not, and puts
them in the BDF file in order.  I've patched it to count upwards, and I'm hoping that
they're in the correct order... maybe.  If not, I may be able to get the values from
another field that 'looks' like the correct number to me, at least... q:]

-It does not provide "ASCENT" and "DESCENT" values... what are these, and can I use a
'default' value that will work?

-It does not provide all the info in the "FONT" field that BdfFontFile.py expects,
bur just the name of the font.  How do I figure out what these values should be, if
it's at all possible?  This includes the type of font ("Roman", "Itallic", etc.), the
spacing, etc.  Seeing as I'm creating the font to my own specifications (resolution
and point size), I may be able to manually configure this data...?


I can send you a sample font file if you like, it may help.

If this endeavour is successful, we may be able to provide some very good quality
fonts for inclusion in the PIL library, or at least as a separate download.

Kevin Cazabon.
                                                                                     
                                                                                     
                                                                                     
                                                                                     
                                                                                     
                                                                                     
                                                                                     
                                                                                     
                                                                                     
                                                                                     
                                                                                     
                                                                                     
                                                 


From godzilla@netmeg.net (Les Schaffer)  Fri Mar 17 19:03:36 2000
From: godzilla@netmeg.net (Les Schaffer) (Les Schaffer)
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 14:03:36 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Image-SIG] Pil format fonts use...
In-Reply-To: <s8d202e2.015@cymbolic.com>
References: <s8d202e2.015@cymbolic.com>
Message-ID: <14546.33160.221162.373270@gargle.gargle.HOWL>

Kevin said:

> As I mentioned earlier in the week, I wish to create a library of
> high-resolution PIL fonts for the PIL world to use.

just out of curiousity, for what purpose would these fonts serve PIL
users? right now i use PIL for astro image processing, and i am
usually not allowed to add lettering to the Jupiter Ring System  :-)

so what do other people using image proc tools need with good font
support under PIL? are people using PIL for graphics production?
adding text to images as i might do in a Gimp or PhotoShop??

les 'just curious' schaffer


From joshua.kifer@supplysolution.com  Fri Mar 17 19:31:08 2000
From: joshua.kifer@supplysolution.com (Joshua Kifer)
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 11:31:08 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Image-SIG] Pil format fonts use...
In-Reply-To: <14546.33160.221162.373270@gargle.gargle.HOWL>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10003171129150.5912-100000@joshua.ssidev.net>

Les,

I use PIL to generate dynamic graphs and charts.  Thus, for the labelling
I require font support.  I applaud any effort to increase the number of
available fonts and would love to hear where I might be able to find them
when they are ready.

Joshua


---
Joshua Kifer <jk@supplysolution.com>
Web Design Programmer
SupplySolution.com

On Fri, 17 Mar 2000, Les Schaffer wrote:

> Kevin said:
> 
> > As I mentioned earlier in the week, I wish to create a library of
> > high-resolution PIL fonts for the PIL world to use.
> 
> just out of curiousity, for what purpose would these fonts serve PIL
> users? right now i use PIL for astro image processing, and i am
> usually not allowed to add lettering to the Jupiter Ring System  :-)
> 
> so what do other people using image proc tools need with good font
> support under PIL? are people using PIL for graphics production?
> adding text to images as i might do in a Gimp or PhotoShop??
> 
> les 'just curious' schaffer
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Image-SIG maillist  -  Image-SIG@python.org
> http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/image-sig
> 



From KCAZA@cymbolic.com  Fri Mar 17 19:31:23 2000
From: KCAZA@cymbolic.com (Kevin Cazabon)
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 11:31:23 -0800
Subject: [Image-SIG] Pil format fonts use...
Message-ID: <s8d217a0.085@cymbolic.com>

Astronomics is one application for PIL, but I'm using it for many other purposes
(mostly personal).  I work for a company called Cymbolic Sciences, and we produce
high resolution laser imaging devices that output to photographic film or paper (up
to 4 feet by 8 feet).

I'm using PIL to create everything from 1.4 GB size 3-D lenticular images to pacakge
prints for portrait labs.  Most of the work I'm doing is "proof of concept" or
prototyping, but it's nice to be able to show good quality images and full-featured
software.

For this kind of work, PIL is perfect... the last thing I want to do is write a C
library to do all the functions readily available in PIL already.  Seeing as I use
Python for the main program usually anyways, it makes sense.

Could you not use text to label your images?  I'm sure there's many applications for
features such as text addition, but I've had difficulty in getting it to work due to
limited font types, and how low-res the available fonts are.  For my application, I
need fonts that are up to 300 or 400 ppi... not something you'd find on an X-Windows
system for sure (which is what most of the BDF fonts are for).

Kevin.

>>> Les Schaffer <godzilla@netmeg.net> 03/17/00 11:03AM >>>
Kevin said:

> As I mentioned earlier in the week, I wish to create a library of
> high-resolution PIL fonts for the PIL world to use.

just out of curiousity, for what purpose would these fonts serve PIL
users? right now i use PIL for astro image processing, and i am
usually not allowed to add lettering to the Jupiter Ring System  :-)

so what do other people using image proc tools need with good font
support under PIL? are people using PIL for graphics production?
adding text to images as i might do in a Gimp or PhotoShop??

les 'just curious' schaffer

_______________________________________________
Image-SIG maillist  -  Image-SIG@python.org 
http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/image-sig
                                                                                     
                                                                                     
                                                                                     
                                                                                     
                                                                                     
                                                                                     
                                                                                     
                                                                                     
                                                                                     
                                                                                     
                                                                                     
                                                                                     
                                                                                     
                                                                                     
                                                                                     
                                                                                     
                                                                                     
                                                                                     
                                                                                     
                                                                                     
                                                                                     


From godzilla@netmeg.net (Les Schaffer)  Fri Mar 17 20:28:04 2000
From: godzilla@netmeg.net (Les Schaffer) (Les Schaffer)
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 15:28:04 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Image-SIG] Pil format fonts use...
In-Reply-To: <s8d217a0.085@cymbolic.com>
References: <s8d217a0.085@cymbolic.com>
Message-ID: <14546.38228.514532.121803@gargle.gargle.HOWL>

Joshua/Kevin:

Thanks for the description of your PIL uses.

Now you __have__ given me an idea: i would love to be able to put TeX
formatted labels on some images. Basically, i'd like to be able to
take a TeX string and place it in an image. The strings will have
usually equations and greek symbols.

is that doable with PIL, your fonts, and some added tools? 

les schaffer


From KCAZA@cymbolic.com  Fri Mar 17 20:46:47 2000
From: KCAZA@cymbolic.com (Kevin Cazabon)
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 12:46:47 -0800
Subject: [Image-SIG] Pil format fonts use...
Message-ID: <s8d22953.034@cymbolic.com>

I'm sure it probably is... you just need a font that has the greek symbols that you
need.  Once I get a "system" in place for properly converting these fonts, it
shouldn't be too hard to do.  As I mentioned though, I'm having a few problems, but
they don't seem insurmountable.

The font support in PIL is easy to use, provided that you have the fonts you need
pre-formatted into PIL font format (which is the difficult part... at least for me!)

Kevin.

>>> Les Schaffer <godzilla@netmeg.net> 03/17/00 12:28PM >>>
Joshua/Kevin:

Thanks for the description of your PIL uses.

Now you __have__ given me an idea: i would love to be able to put TeX
formatted labels on some images. Basically, i'd like to be able to
take a TeX string and place it in an image. The strings will have
usually equations and greek symbols.

is that doable with PIL, your fonts, and some added tools? 

les schaffer

_______________________________________________
Image-SIG maillist  -  Image-SIG@python.org 
http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/image-sig
                                                                                     
                                                                                     
                                                                                     
                                                                                     
                                                                                     
                                                                                     
                                                                                     
                                                                                     
                                                                                     
                                                                                     
                                                                                     
                                                                                     
                                                                                     
                                                                                     
                                                                                     
                                                                                     
                                                                                     
                                                                                     
                                                             


From jack@oratrix.nl  Fri Mar 17 22:18:04 2000
From: jack@oratrix.nl (Jack Jansen)
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 23:18:04 +0100
Subject: [Image-SIG] Pil format fonts use...
In-Reply-To: Message by Kevin Cazabon <KCAZA@cymbolic.com> ,
 Fri, 17 Mar 2000 12:46:47 -0800 , <s8d22953.034@cymbolic.com>
Message-ID: <20000317221810.3A956E2673@oratrix.oratrix.nl>

Just an idle thought: wouldn't it be better to invest some time in
creating a renderer for a simple scalable font to use with PIL? Wasn't 
Type 42 designed to be easily parseable and executable even without a
fullblown PostScript interpreter?
--
Jack Jansen             | ++++ stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal ++++
Jack.Jansen@oratrix.com | ++++ if you agree copy these lines to your sig ++++
www.oratrix.nl/~jack    | see http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/spg-l/sigaction.htm 


From Joerg.Baumann@stud.informatik.uni-erlangen.de  Sat Mar 18 20:37:19 2000
From: Joerg.Baumann@stud.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Joerg Baumann)
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 21:37:19 +0100 (MET)
Subject: [Image-SIG] Pil format fonts use...
In-Reply-To: <14546.38228.514532.121803@gargle.gargle.HOWL>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0003182129250.6605-101000@faui02t.informatik.uni-erlangen.de>

  This message is in MIME format.  The first part should be readable text,
  while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools.
  Send mail to mime@docserver.cac.washington.edu for more info.

---559023410-851401618-953411712=:6605
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Content-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0003182136041.6605@faui02t.informatik.uni-erlangen.de>

On Fri, 17 Mar 2000, Les Schaffer wrote:

> Joshua/Kevin:
> 
> Thanks for the description of your PIL uses.
> 
> Now you __have__ given me an idea: i would love to be able to put TeX
> formatted labels on some images. Basically, i'd like to be able to
> take a TeX string and place it in an image. The strings will have
> usually equations and greek symbols.
> 
> is that doable with PIL, your fonts, and some added tools? 

I don't know much about PIL, because I started just looking at it. 
Latex2html or doxygen (a documentation tool for c++ and idl) simply use
latex, dvips and gs to convert tex->ps->pnm.

I have attached a litte tar.gz with the c++ class (from doxygen) doing
that. It should be no problem to see what's going on and 
achieve the same with PIL (call tex,dvips, do some calculations gs and
read the bitmap)

Regards,

   joerg

  Joerg Baumann       joerg.baumann@stud.informatik.uni-erlangen.de
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+  
  Beware of bugs in the above code; I have only proved it correct, 
  not tried it.
                  Don Knuth 
 

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---559023410-851401618-953411712=:6605--


From krt@krt.com.au  Sun Mar 19 20:50:55 2000
From: krt@krt.com.au (Kingsley Turner)
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 07:50:55 +1100
Subject: [Image-SIG] Pil format fonts use...
References: <20000318170020.B5A491CD27@dinsdale.python.org>
Message-ID: <38D53DAF.FA46D654@krt.com.au>

> Subject: [Image-SIG] Pil format fonts use...
> Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 14:03:36 -0500 (EST)
> From: Les Schaffer <godzilla@netmeg.net>
> To: image-sig@python.org
> References: <s8d202e2.015@cymbolic.com>
> 
> Kevin said:
> 
> > As I mentioned earlier in the week, I wish to create a library of
> > high-resolution PIL fonts for the PIL world to use.
> 
> just out of curiousity, for what purpose would these fonts serve PIL
> users? right now i use PIL for astro image processing, and i am
> usually not allowed to add lettering to the Jupiter Ring System  :-)
> 
> so what do other people using image proc tools need with good font
> support under PIL? are people using PIL for graphics production?
> adding text to images as i might do in a Gimp or PhotoShop??
> 
> les 'just curious' schaffer

I use PIL to place a watermark on the bottom of images that
are added to our website (see .sig).

Using Python http upload, we grab an image, save an original,
then use PIL to scale it (down) to a reasonable size (450^2),
then make a thumbnail of this (about 200^2). The 450 is blended
with an image of the words 'Mad Dogs Breakfast' .  The results 
are varying- on some images it looks great, other times it looks 
crap (impossible to read).

It would be great to just write it there, and then I could
select a good contrasting grey scale to write it with, rather
than just using grey 50% + some alpha.  I'm not sure if I would vary
the opacity this time though.

cheers,
-kt

Here's some examples of it - and a shameful plug of my website... :)

Good example:
http://maddogsbreakfast.com/mdb/gui/art/art42c_exp.shtml

OK example:
http://maddogsbreakfast.com/mdb/gui/art/art34c_exp.shtml

Bad example:
http://maddogsbreakfast.com/mdb/gui/art/art45c_exp.shtml

-- 
Kingsley Turner, mailto:kingsley@krt.com.au
Mad Dog's Breakfast: 
    The Travel Magazine that doesn't take itself too seriously
    http://www.MadDogsBreakfast.com


From Joerg.Baumann@stud.informatik.uni-erlangen.de  Sat Mar 18 23:32:03 2000
From: Joerg.Baumann@stud.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Joerg Baumann)
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 00:32:03 +0100 (MET)
Subject: [Image-SIG] Pil format fonts use...
In-Reply-To: <20000317221810.3A956E2673@oratrix.oratrix.nl>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0003190020560.6605-100000@faui02t.informatik.uni-erlangen.de>

On Fri, 17 Mar 2000, Jack Jansen wrote:

> Just an idle thought: wouldn't it be better to invest some time in
> creating a renderer for a simple scalable font to use with PIL? Wasn't=20
> Type 42 designed to be easily parseable and executable even without a
> fullblown PostScript interpreter?

  Type 42 was designed as "wrapper" around a TrueType font.
  < adobe 5012.Type42_spec >
  ... the PostScript =AE Type 42 font format which can be used to download
  TrueType (r) fonts to PostScript printers (or PostScript compatible
  printers) that contain a TrueType rasterizer. This method
  yields better print quality than can be achieved by converting a
  TrueType font to a Type 1 or Type 3 font. =20
  </adobe 5012.Type42_spec >
  So you don't need a fullblown PostScript interpreter, but=20
  Postscript-wrapper unpacking code and a fullblown TrueType interpreter.

  There is the FreeType library, a GPLed TrueType Rasterizer
  (http://www.freetype.org/), perhaps that would be worth looking at? But
  I think it handles only native TrueType fonts.=20
 =20
  Regards,
     joerg

  Joerg Baumann       joerg.baumann@stud.informatik.uni-erlangen.de
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ =20
  Beware of bugs in the above code; I have only proved it correct,=20
  not tried it.
                  Don Knuth=20
=20



From kcazabon" <kcazabon@home.com  Sun Mar 19 06:58:41 2000
From: kcazabon" <kcazabon@home.com (kcazabon)
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 22:58:41 -0800
Subject: [Image-SIG] Pil format fonts use...
References: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0003190020560.6605-100000@faui02t.informatik.uni-erlangen.de>
Message-ID: <001a01bf9170$8f89ca40$16107118@rct1.bc.wave.home.com>

In any case, it seems like I have the compatibility problems I've been
experiencing under control.  I have a program on order that can rasterize
most Windows fonts to BDF format, and I've 'hobbled' Fred's original
BdfFontFile.py to be compatible with them (even though they're missing some
of the data in a 'full' BDF font).

I'll put together a few packages of fonts, and let everyone know where they
can be found.  I'll have to do a little investigation into copyrights on the
fonts I provide first though... q:[

Out of curiosity, what resolutions are useful to all those on this list that
would have need of such ready-made PIL fonts?  I need fairly high res files,
say 300-400 pixels/inch, but what about everyone else?  Most screen fonts
are 72 or 100dpi, but they look like garbage when printed on a good quality
printer...

It shouldn't be hard to put together 72, 100, 200, 250, 300, 305, 400, 406
ppi packages (each separate), but are there any 'common' res's that I'm
missing?  (The 305 and 406 are for my needs...)  It seems that I start to
blow things up (i.e. crash...) when I go above 72 points at 406dpi...  q:]


Kevin Cazabon


----- Original Message -----
From: "Joerg Baumann" <Joerg.Baumann@stud.informatik.uni-erlangen.de>
To: <image-sig@python.org>
Sent: Saturday, March 18, 2000 3:32 PM
Subject: Re: [Image-SIG] Pil format fonts use...


On Fri, 17 Mar 2000, Jack Jansen wrote:

> Just an idle thought: wouldn't it be better to invest some time in
> creating a renderer for a simple scalable font to use with PIL? Wasn't
> Type 42 designed to be easily parseable and executable even without a
> fullblown PostScript interpreter?

  Type 42 was designed as "wrapper" around a TrueType font.
  < adobe 5012.Type42_spec >
  ... the PostScript ® Type 42 font format which can be used to download
  TrueType (r) fonts to PostScript printers (or PostScript compatible
  printers) that contain a TrueType rasterizer. This method
  yields better print quality than can be achieved by converting a
  TrueType font to a Type 1 or Type 3 font.
  </adobe 5012.Type42_spec >
  So you don't need a fullblown PostScript interpreter, but
  Postscript-wrapper unpacking code and a fullblown TrueType interpreter.

  There is the FreeType library, a GPLed TrueType Rasterizer
  (http://www.freetype.org/), perhaps that would be worth looking at? But
  I think it handles only native TrueType fonts.

  Regards,
     joerg

  Joerg Baumann       joerg.baumann@stud.informatik.uni-erlangen.de
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
  Beware of bugs in the above code; I have only proved it correct,
  not tried it.
                  Don Knuth



_______________________________________________
Image-SIG maillist  -  Image-SIG@python.org
http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/image-sig




From kcazabon" <kcazabon@home.com  Tue Mar 21 06:31:35 2000
From: kcazabon" <kcazabon@home.com (kcazabon)
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 22:31:35 -0800
Subject: [Image-SIG] PIL fonts... base package available online...!
Message-ID: <000501bf92ff$1ada67a0$16107118@rct1.bc.wave.home.com>

I've put together a 'base' package of PIL-format fonts... a bit over the
top, but oh well.

The only one I have room to post on my web space is the 100dpi package for
now.  There's fonts from 8pt to 72pt in it, that you can use at other
resolutions too, but the sizing will change accordingly.

It's a fairly large zip, 4.5mb, which I'll split up later when I figure out
where these can be hosted.

see http://members.home.com/lenticular for details.

I hope these are useful to some of you!

Kevin Cazabon.

(fyi, PIL fonts are in 2 pieces:  a "pbm" file, which is actually a "PNG"
format image that you can open and view, and a "pil" file that contains the
metrics for the image file.  You need both to use them with PIL)



From carlson@cems.umn.edu  Wed Mar 22 23:38:27 2000
From: carlson@cems.umn.edu (Bryan Carlson)
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 17:38:27 -0600
Subject: [Image-SIG] Problems with Imaging 1.0
Message-ID: <NDBBLKIDMKEANLKHFCMFCEMLCGAA.carlson@cems.umn.edu>

I am trying to build the imaging library (PIL 1.0).  I have made it through
the first 7 steps of the README build
successfully.  I'm getting stopped at step 8.  The output from the session
looks like this:

Python 1.5.2 (#1, Mar 21 2000, 15:31:37)  [GCC 2.8.1] on sunos5
Copyright 1991-1995 Stichting Mathematisch Centrum, Amsterdam
>>> import _imaging
Traceback (innermost last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
ImportError: ld.so.1: python: fatal: libtcl8.3.so: open failed: No such file
or directory
>>> import Image
>>

The "import Image" seems ok but as you can see it is balking at "import
_imaging".  I have installed python 1.5.2 and tcl 8.3 and tk 8.3 on my
system.  The libtcl8.3.so library is installed in /usr/local/lib.  This is
in my path and also I put in PYTHONPATH - but python
doesn't seem aware of it.  I think this is the problem - python doesn't seem
to be aware
tcl/tk - but I don't know how to rectify this.

Also, in the Setup file I changed the tcl line to:

# *** Tcl/Tk support and library location








Tk/tkImaging.c -DWITH_TKINTER -I/usr/local/include -L/usr/local/lib -ltcl8.3
 -ltk8.3


Any suggestions here?

BTW, I have no feel for these programs.  Someone in our department asked me
to install Sketch which is built on python, PIL, tcl/tk, etc.   Not sure if
the above is even a problem.

Also, found it confusing to go through the build and successfully do a make
only to have to
run another make - didn't really understand this.  Just following the steps.

Bryan

Bryan Jon Carlson
Systems Administrator
Chem. Eng. & Mat. Sci. Dept.
University of Minnesota
421 Washington Ave. SE
Minneapolis, MN 55455
Work:   612-624-2557
Fax:    612-626-7246
e-mail: carlson@cems.umn.edu



From kcazabon" <kcazabon@home.com  Thu Mar 23 06:19:00 2000
From: kcazabon" <kcazabon@home.com (kcazabon)
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 22:19:00 -0800
Subject: [Image-SIG] Full PIL font library now available
Message-ID: <001901bf948f$adaa0c20$16107118@rct1.bc.wave.home.com>

Piers Lauder has kindly provided some FTP hosting space for all of the PIL
font packages that I produced this week.

The available packages are 72, 100, 200, 250, 300, 305, 400, and 406dpi,
each in a separate ZIP file.

Each package contains 480 fonts... 16 sizes each of 30 different fonts.

They are available at:

http://www.cs.usyd.edu.au/~piers/python/pilfonts.html

Thank you very much Piers for the space... I hope you are able to keep them
there for a while at least.

Kevin Cazabon.

(PS:  if there's a North Americain FTP site that you can provide space on,
it would be greatly appreciated:  Piers' site is in Australia, and could get
slow in peak periods for us N.A. people...)





From pf@artcom-gmbh.de  Thu Mar 23 07:09:32 2000
From: pf@artcom-gmbh.de (Peter Funk)
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 08:09:32 +0100 (MET)
Subject: [Image-SIG] Problems with Imaging 1.0
In-Reply-To: <NDBBLKIDMKEANLKHFCMFCEMLCGAA.carlson@cems.umn.edu> from Bryan Carlson at "Mar 22, 2000  5:38:27 pm"
Message-ID: <m12Y1kK-000CnDC@artcom0.artcom-gmbh.de>

Hi!

Bryan Carlson:
> I am trying to build the imaging library (PIL 1.0).
[...]
> ImportError: ld.so.1: python: fatal: libtcl8.3.so: open failed: No such file
> or directory
[...]
> Any suggestions here?

In SunOS aka Solaris you have to specifiy additional search paths for
shared libraries in the linker command.  This is different from the
'/etc/ld.so.conf' global system configuration you might be familar with
from Linux.  If you want to use /usr/local/lib, the relevant portion
of your $BUILD/Modules/Setup should read:

# *** Uncomment and edit to reflect where your Tcl/Tk libraries are:
        -L/usr/local/lib -R/usr/local/lib \
# *** Uncomment and edit to reflect your Tcl/Tk versions:
        -ltk8.3 -ltcl8.3 \

However you should know, that two small patches are required, to make
the Python1.5.2 source distribution go with Tcl/Tk 8.3.0.  I can send
you this patches, if you want.

But I suggest to stay with Tcl/Tk 8.0.5 for the time being.  It has
been discovered on several platforms (Linux, Win32), that under very 
rare cirumstances the combination Python/Tcl/Tk 8.3.0 may crash with 
memory violation problem, where Tcl/Tk 8.0.5 is rock stable.

I've discovered this, while running the testsuite coming with the Python
Mega Widget (Pmw) package, see <http://www.dscpl.com.au/pmw/>.  Since
this test suite makes heavy use of widget creation and desctruction,
the probability of this bug showing up in a real world app is low.

> BTW, I have no feel for these programs.  Someone in our department asked me
> to install Sketch which is built on python, PIL, tcl/tk, etc.   Not sure if
> the above is even a problem.

I haven't yet tried Sketch 0.6.5 on our Solaris box (it is an old Sparc 10).
Would be interesting to here, whether is will run there.

> Also, found it confusing to go through the build and successfully do a make
> only to have to
> run another make - didn't really understand this.  Just following the steps.

Well, you are brave to try this on Solaris!  ;-)
If you can't get further with my hints, please ask again.

Regards, Peter
-- 
Peter Funk, Oldenburger Str.86, D-27777 Ganderkesee, Germany, Fax:+49 4222950260
office: +49 421 20419-0 (ArtCom GmbH, Grazer Str.8, D-28359 Bremen)


From rrdn60@email.sps.mot.com  Thu Mar 23 17:50:48 2000
From: rrdn60@email.sps.mot.com (Norman Shelley (rrdn60))
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 10:50:48 -0700
Subject: [Image-SIG] PIL 1.0 and ImportError: ... (init_imaging)
Message-ID: <38DA5978.E7E94333@email.sps.mot.com>

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
--------------59A5903C7B6CE73CFA04BB40
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit


Some installation comments and one major problem with PIL Release 1.0
(Jul 31, 1999)

Please copy me directly as I am not a subscribed member of this  list


Environment:
[246] % uname -a
HP-UX wvenus B.10.20 A 9000/782 2009382447 two-user license
[247] % gcc --version
2.95.1



o Setup.in copied to Setup does NOT work until backslashes on these
three lines
are removed:
 -IlibImaging libImaging/libImaging.a \
 -I/usr/local/include -L/usr/local/lib -ljpeg \
 -I/usr/local/include -L/usr/local/lib -lz \



o When building the shared library it complains that libImaging.a was
not built
relative. Had to rebuild it with the -fpic gcc option




o

$ ls *.sl
_imaging.sl
$ PYTHONPATH=.:./PIL ; export PYTHONPATH
$ python
Python 1.5.2 (#4, Nov 10 1999, 09:23:22)  [GCC 2.95.1 19990816
(release)] on hp-uxB
Copyright 1991-1995 Stichting Mathematisch Centrum, Amsterdam
>>> import _imaging
Traceback (innermost last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
ImportError: dynamic module does not define init function (init_imaging)

$ nm _imaging.sl | grep init_
00018700 T init_imaging
00018730 T init_imaging


--
Best regards,



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begin:vcard 
n:Shelley;Norman
tel;work:(480) 413-3895
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email;internet:rrdn60@email.sps.mot.com
adr;quoted-printable:;;2100 E. Elliot Rd.=0D=0AAZ34-MD EL701;Tempe;AZ;85284;
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--------------59A5903C7B6CE73CFA04BB40--



From PeloquinW@esi.com  Fri Mar 24 22:46:53 2000
From: PeloquinW@esi.com (William Peloquin)
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 14:46:53 -0800
Subject: [Image-SIG] Trying to display a BMP image
Message-ID: <E06FA6B44D80D21183E000805F850174A88807@AA1>

Hi,

I am trying to load a BMP image and display it in a label. I am pretty new
to using PIL, and I have not used Python in quite a while. I will appreciate
any hints!

I am using the following bit of code, and I am having no luck....

        img = Image.open('im000001.bmp')
        img.load()	#tried with and without load

        print 'mode = ', img.mode
        print 'size = ', img.size
        
        pi = BitmapImage(img)  #or PhotoImage(img)
        
        Label(liveRawF, image=pi).pack(side=TOP, expand=YES, fill=BOTH)

Thanks,

Willie


Willie Peloquin
esi - Vision Products Division
734.332.7180 phone
734.332.7077 fax




From kingsley@krt.com.au  Sat Mar 25 00:07:20 2000
From: kingsley@krt.com.au (Kingsley Turner)
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 11:07:20 +1100
Subject: [Image-SIG] Q: resizing (smaller) with anti-aliasing
Message-ID: <38DC0338.64FD4F95@krt.com.au>

Just a quick question:

Is there a way to scale an image (smaller) that includes some
form of antialiasing?

My thumbnails are coming out a little chunky, partucularly when
the original is a line-drawing or diagram.  If I reduce them
with gimp they come out a lot smoother.

cheers,
-kt

-- 
Kingsley Turner, mailto:kingsley@krt.com.au
Mad Dog's Breakfast: 
    The Travel Magazine that doesn't take itself too seriously
    http://www.MadDogsBreakfast.com


From Joerg.Baumann@stud.informatik.uni-erlangen.de  Sat Mar 25 14:39:39 2000
From: Joerg.Baumann@stud.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Joerg Baumann)
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 15:39:39 +0100 (MET)
Subject: [Image-SIG] Q: resizing (smaller) with anti-aliasing
In-Reply-To: <38DC0338.64FD4F95@krt.com.au>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0003251536050.20985-100000@faui02t.informatik.uni-erlangen.de>

On Sat, 25 Mar 2000, Kingsley Turner wrote:

> Is there a way to scale an image (smaller) that includes some
> form of antialiasing?

  j=i.resize((80,100)) 
uses the NEAREST filter as default, like
  j=i.resize((80,100),Image.NEAREST)
With
  j=i.resize((80,100),Image.BILINEAR)
you get linear interpolation.
With
  j=i.resize((80,100),Image.BICUBIC)
you get cubic interpolation.

bye
  joerg

  Joerg Baumann       joerg.baumann@stud.informatik.uni-erlangen.de
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+  
  Beware of bugs in the above code; I have only proved it correct, 
  not tried it.
                  Don Knuth 
 



From Joerg.Baumann@stud.informatik.uni-erlangen.de  Sat Mar 25 14:57:59 2000
From: Joerg.Baumann@stud.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Joerg Baumann)
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 15:57:59 +0100 (MET)
Subject: [Image-SIG] Trying to display a BMP image
In-Reply-To: <E06FA6B44D80D21183E000805F850174A88807@AA1>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0003251552390.20985-100000@faui02t.informatik.uni-erlangen.de>

On Fri, 24 Mar 2000, William Peloquin wrote:

> Hi,
>=20
> I am trying to load a BMP image and display it in a label. I am pretty ne=
w
> to using PIL, and I have not used Python in quite a while. I will appreci=
ate
> any hints!

Your problems seem to be with Tkinter.
Here is a working version of your fragment.

import Tkinter
import Image,ImageTk

liveRawF=3DTkinter.Tk()

img =3D Image.open('im000001.bmp')

print 'mode =3D ', img.mode
print 'size =3D ', img.size

pi =3D ImageTk.PhotoImage(img)

Tkinter.Label(liveRawF, image=3Dpi).pack(side=3DTkinter.TOP,
expand=3DTkinter.YES, fill=3DTkinter.BOTH)=20

liveRawF.mainloop()

Certainly you can use "from .. import .." instead of "import ..", but this
way it=B4s clear where things come from.

hope this is a helpful hint,

bye
   joerg

  Joerg Baumann       joerg.baumann@stud.informatik.uni-erlangen.de
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ =20
  Beware of bugs in the above code; I have only proved it correct,=20
  not tried it.
                  Don Knuth=20
=20



From Joerg.Baumann@stud.informatik.uni-erlangen.de  Sun Mar 26 01:03:32 2000
From: Joerg.Baumann@stud.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Joerg Baumann)
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 03:03:32 +0200 (MET DST)
Subject: [Image-SIG] TrueType and Type 1 fonts with PIL
In-Reply-To: <001901bf948f$adaa0c20$16107118@rct1.bc.wave.home.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0003260144260.21719-101000@faui02t.informatik.uni-erlangen.de>

  This message is in MIME format.  The first part should be readable text,
  while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools.
  Send mail to mime@docserver.cac.washington.edu for more info.

---559023410-851401618-954032612=:21719
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After the short discussion about fonts and PIL, I wrote a small patch
(attached to this mail) for Imaging-1.0.

This patch uses the FreeType2 Beta library from www.freetype.org to
enable ImageFont to use TrueType and Type 1 (and other) font-files.

The FreeType2 Beta library does not run on all systems yet, but
the development of FreeType1 is stopped, and I didn=B4t want to use a soon
obsolete library. (It should run fine on most unix-boxes with gcc)

In _imaging.c  WITH_IMAGEFREETYPEFONT must be defined,
and in Setup.in the location of the freetype-library must be adjusted.

Old pil-font are loaded as it used to be:
f=3DImageFont.load("courR14.pil")
The new syntax to load fonts with freetype is:
f=3DImageFont.load("verdana.ttf",0,30)

the new options are face_index and size.
Some of the now supported fontfiles support more than one face, you
can select one with face_index (should be 0 in most cases)
Size is the height of the font in pixels.

This runs fine for me (linux 2.2.10, glibc 2.1)

please try it, and if you find a bug, contact me.

Regards,
   joerg

  Joerg Baumann       joerg.baumann@stud.informatik.uni-erlangen.de
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ =20
  Beware of bugs in the above code; I have only proved it correct,=20
  not tried it.
                  Don Knuth=20
=20

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From robert.klimek@grc.nasa.gov  Mon Mar 27 16:29:38 2000
From: robert.klimek@grc.nasa.gov (Bob Klimek)
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 11:29:38 -0500
Subject: [Image-SIG] TrueType and Type 1 fonts with PIL
References: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0003260144260.21719-101000@faui02t.informatik.uni-erlangen.de>
Message-ID: <38DF8C72.E18C5960@grc.nasa.gov>

Hello All,

Just a general thought. Over the last couple of weeks there have been
discussions of font enhancements. I haven't used any of them my self but
I'd hate to see these nice enhancements die with time and be forgotten.
The only way that this won't happen is if they are added to PIL. I must
say, I use PIL all the time and it is a wonderful piece of software,
many thanks to Fredrik Lundh for that. And I want to see PIL become even
better and grow.

Bob
-- 
---------------------
Robert B. Klimek
NASA Glenn Research Center
robert.klimek@grc.nasa.gov
---------------------


From fdrake@acm.org  Mon Mar 27 16:38:38 2000
From: fdrake@acm.org (Fred L. Drake, Jr.)
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 11:38:38 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Image-SIG] TrueType and Type 1 fonts with PIL
In-Reply-To: <38DF8C72.E18C5960@grc.nasa.gov>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0003260144260.21719-101000@faui02t.informatik.uni-erlangen.de>
 <38DF8C72.E18C5960@grc.nasa.gov>
Message-ID: <14559.36494.649780.499675@weyr.cnri.reston.va.us>

Bob Klimek writes:
 > Just a general thought. Over the last couple of weeks there have been
 > discussions of font enhancements. I haven't used any of them my self but

  There's also t1python, my Python bindings for Rainer Menzner's
t1lib.  It needs to be updated, which I'm hoping to get to before too
much longer (esp. now that the doc release is out!).

 > I'd hate to see these nice enhancements die with time and be forgotten.
 > The only way that this won't happen is if they are added to PIL. I must
 > say, I use PIL all the time and it is a wonderful piece of software,
 > many thanks to Fredrik Lundh for that. And I want to see PIL become even
 > better and grow.

  Me too.  1.0.1 needs to be released, though.  The weird linking
problem with _tkinter is horrible, and easy enough for /F to fix.  I
consider it too tedious to install in the 1.0 incarnation.  ;(


  -Fred

--
Fred L. Drake, Jr.	  <fdrake at acm.org>
Corporation for National Research Initiatives


From btribble@blueshiftinc.com  Mon Mar 27 20:02:14 2000
From: btribble@blueshiftinc.com (Brett Tribble)
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 12:02:14 -0800
Subject: [Image-SIG] Question about adding a BOB datatype (loader/saver)
Message-ID: <007901bf9827$58ef7da0$a5e501aa@blueshiftinc.com>

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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	charset="iso-8859-1"
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I'm reworking one of the existing Image Plugins to load/save the BOB =
image format. This format is very simple. It consists of two longs =
representing Width, Height. 256 palette entries, the image data, and =
that's it!

It does not contain an Identifier string of any sort. Can I return None =
as the _accept value, or is there another way of doing this?

After I have it working, where should I submit it to make it available =
for others?


Please make sure my email is in your reply, as I do not subscribe to the =
list...


Thanks in advance,

Brett Tribble

------=_NextPart_000_0076_01BF97E4.4A79D7E0
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	charset="iso-8859-1"
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.3013.2600" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 face=3DArial size=3D2>I'm reworking one of =
the existing=20
Image Plugins to load/save the BOB image format. This format is very =
simple. It=20
consists of two longs representing Width, Height. 256 palette entries, =
the image=20
data, and that's it!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 face=3DArial size=3D2>It does not contain an =
Identifier=20
string of any sort. Can I return None as the _accept value, or is there =
another=20
way of doing this?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 face=3DArial size=3D2>After I have it =
working, where should=20
I submit it to make it available for others?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 face=3DArial size=3D2>Please make sure my =
email is in your=20
reply, as I do not subscribe to the list...</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 face=3DArial size=3D2>Thanks in =
advance,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 face=3DArial size=3D2>Brett=20
Tribble</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From rpseguin@yahoo.com  Tue Mar 28 20:24:43 2000
From: rpseguin@yahoo.com (Ralph Seguin)
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 12:24:43 -0800
Subject: [Image-SIG] Pixmap widget with access to pixels?
Message-ID: <38E1150B.21C541A7@yahoo.com>

Hi.
I'm looking for a widget that I could use inside of Python (Tkinter or
otherwise) that
gives me access to setting and retrieving individual pixels.
I know that the Tkinter Canvas widget allows me to have arcs, rects,
..., but I'm talking about
having a large canvas where I want to render directly to the pixels.

I've got PIL working with Tkinter in terms of copying an entire pixmap
over, but this is INCREDIBLY inefficient.

I'd like to have something that works within the existing framework, but
I'm open to patching my python installs (talking about a number of
machines here...).
I'm going to look at the TOGL, PyOpenGL and other things and see how
they've done it.
I'd love it if these were all integrated...

Suggestions are greatly appreciated.

Thanks.
-Ralph
rpseguin@yahoo.com




From jack@oratrix.nl  Tue Mar 28 22:15:18 2000
From: jack@oratrix.nl (Jack Jansen)
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 00:15:18 +0200
Subject: [Image-SIG] Pixmap widget with access to pixels?
In-Reply-To: Message by Ralph Seguin <rpseguin@yahoo.com> ,
 Tue, 28 Mar 2000 12:24:43 -0800 , <38E1150B.21C541A7@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20000328221523.9B8CBE2673@oratrix.oratrix.nl>

What exactly do you mean by "direct access to pixels"? If you want to
set pixels yourself from Python code there's a 99% chance that the
exercise is futile: Python is simply too slow for that. (Exception are 
some vbery special cases: I can imagine that if you want to paint the
night sky after computing it you can get away with it because there's
so few pixels to paint).

Whether you have direct access to slightly higher abstractions (like
scanlines or rectangular areas) depends on the gui package used,
indeed, but unless you give a hint of what you want to do it's
dificult to answer which package is best. Your platform is also
interesting: it won't help you much if I tell you that you can access
the raw bitmap for any window from MacPython if you're not using a mac:-)
--
Jack Jansen             | ++++ stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal ++++
Jack.Jansen@oratrix.com | ++++ if you agree copy these lines to your sig ++++
www.oratrix.nl/~jack    | see http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/spg-l/sigaction.htm 


From rpseguin@yahoo.com  Tue Mar 28 23:10:05 2000
From: rpseguin@yahoo.com (Ralph Seguin)
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 15:10:05 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Image-SIG] Pixmap widget with access to pixels?
Message-ID: <20000328231005.10021.qmail@web2105.mail.yahoo.com>

> What exactly do you mean by "direct access to
> pixels"? If you want to

I mean being able to set a given pixel a given color.
For each pixel in a canvas.
Fractals, surface plots, graphics rendering, ray
trace, ...
I can see a number of things that I could use this
for.

for curY in range ( 0, 1000 ) :
	for curX in range ( 0, 1000 ) :
		# fooBar () is some time-consuming
		# function which will compute a color
		# value, possibly/probably unique per
		# pixel.
		val = fooBar( curX, curY )
		myCanvas.setPixel( curX, curY, val )

In this example, fooBar() is some arbitrary,
time-consuming function, so the cost of doing
setPixel() is small in comparison.

Doing this by generating degenerate (Canvas)
rectangles or
degenerate (Canvas) lines is very inefficient in both
storage space and compute/render time.

Currently, I can use PIL to render to an off-screen
image and then assign this image to the image for a
Tkinter.Label or other widget, but this is really not
good either.

> exercise is futile: Python is simply too slow for
> that. (Exception are 

Setting a pixel represents a minor fraction of the
amount of time for computing some things like
fractals, ray traces, ...

> night sky after computing it you can get away with
> it because there's so few pixels to paint).

??

> Whether you have direct access to slightly higher
> abstractions (like
> scanlines or rectangular areas) depends on the gui

Having a rectangle for each pixel is incredibly
inneficient.

> interesting: it won't help you much if I tell you
> the raw bitmap for any window from MacPython if
> you're not using a mac:-)

I'd like to be platform independent.

Since I do most of my work under UNIX, I could hack up
some code to write pixels directly to X drawables, but
this is hardly elegant or the way that I would like to
do it.

Thanks.
-Ralph



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From KCAZA@cymbolic.com  Wed Mar 29 02:06:18 2000
From: KCAZA@cymbolic.com (Kevin Cazabon)
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 18:06:18 -0800
Subject: [Image-SIG] Pixmap widget with access to pixels?
Message-ID: <s8e0f4ae.004@cymbolic.com>

Well, in PIL, you can set an individual pixel very easily.  If you want to display
these pixels as they're updated, it's easy too.

How about something like this:

#########################
import Image, ImageTk
from Tkinter import *

class displayPixMap:
    def __init__(self, parent, imageSize):
        self.image = Image.new("RGB", imageSize, (0,0,0))
        self.TkImage = ImageTk.PhotoImage(self.image)
        self.imageDisplay = Label(parent, image = self.TkImage)
        self.imageDisplay.pack()

    def putPixel(self, x, y, value):
        self.image.putpixel((x,y), value)
        self.TkImage = ImageTk.PhotoImage(self.image)
        self.imageDisplay.update_idletasks()

test = Frame()
test.pack()
im = displayPixMap(test, (100,100))

for y in range(100):
    for x in range(100):
        value = FooBar(x, y) # Where FooBar returns a 3-tuple of RGB values
        im.putPixel(x, y, value)


test.mainloop()


#########################


>>> Ralph Seguin <rpseguin@yahoo.com> 03/28/00 03:10PM >>>
> What exactly do you mean by "direct access to
> pixels"? If you want to

I mean being able to set a given pixel a given color.
For each pixel in a canvas.
Fractals, surface plots, graphics rendering, ray
trace, ...
I can see a number of things that I could use this
for.

for curY in range ( 0, 1000 ) :
 for curX in range ( 0, 1000 ) :
  # fooBar () is some time-consuming
  # function which will compute a color
  # value, possibly/probably unique per
  # pixel.
  val = fooBar( curX, curY )
  myCanvas.setPixel( curX, curY, val )

In this example, fooBar() is some arbitrary,
time-consuming function, so the cost of doing
setPixel() is small in comparison.

Doing this by generating degenerate (Canvas)
rectangles or
degenerate (Canvas) lines is very inefficient in both
storage space and compute/render time.

Currently, I can use PIL to render to an off-screen
image and then assign this image to the image for a
Tkinter.Label or other widget, but this is really not
good either.

> exercise is futile: Python is simply too slow for
> that. (Exception are 

Setting a pixel represents a minor fraction of the
amount of time for computing some things like
fractals, ray traces, ...

> night sky after computing it you can get away with
> it because there's so few pixels to paint).

??

> Whether you have direct access to slightly higher
> abstractions (like
> scanlines or rectangular areas) depends on the gui

Having a rectangle for each pixel is incredibly
inneficient.

> interesting: it won't help you much if I tell you
> the raw bitmap for any window from MacPython if
> you're not using a mac:-)

I'd like to be platform independent.

Since I do most of my work under UNIX, I could hack up
some code to write pixels directly to X drawables, but
this is hardly elegant or the way that I would like to
do it.

Thanks.
-Ralph



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_______________________________________________
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From rpseguin@yahoo.com  Wed Mar 29 04:29:09 2000
From: rpseguin@yahoo.com (Ralph Seguin)
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 20:29:09 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Image-SIG] Pixmap widget with access to pixels?
Message-ID: <20000329042909.12100.qmail@web2101.mail.yahoo.com>

> class displayPixMap:
>     def __init__(self, parent, imageSize):
>         self.image = Image.new("RGB", imageSize,
> (0,0,0))
>         self.TkImage =
> ImageTk.PhotoImage(self.image)
>         self.imageDisplay = Label(parent, image =
> self.TkImage)
>         self.imageDisplay.pack()
> 
>     def putPixel(self, x, y, value):
>         self.image.putpixel((x,y), value)
>         self.TkImage =
> ImageTk.PhotoImage(self.image)
>         self.imageDisplay.update_idletasks()

Right.
I already have something like this example, but I feel
that it is very inneficient to copy an entire
pixmap/image when changing a single pixel.

Let's say that I've got an image that is 4000x4000
A single putPixel(), requires me to copy 16 million
pixels worth of data, or worse.

Am I wrong and simply missing something?

If you have a label widget with a pixmap, then you
already have the storage allocated for storing the
pixels, it would be nice to be able to write directly
into that pixmap.  Granted it's a bit more work for
palette stuff...

Just as a quick/dirty/ugly hack, I wrote some C code
that enabled me to write directly to an X Drawable.
The code does work as an experiment for tweaking
pixels, but I have to put in a bunch of stuff related
to color matching and palettes, visuals, ... (some of
the ugly side of dealing with X).

Honestly, I think that this is where some of the
problem lies.  Basically, since Tkinter and PIL are
"cross-platform", you have some of these issues to
deal with on the implementation side.

Thanks.
-Ralph
rpseguin@yahoo.com



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From fredrik@pythonware.com  Wed Mar 29 10:15:59 2000
From: fredrik@pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 12:15:59 +0200
Subject: [Image-SIG] Pixmap widget with access to pixels?
References: <38E1150B.21C541A7@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <005b01bf9968$69daf8f0$0500a8c0@secret.pythonware.com>

Ralph Seguin wrote:
> I'm looking for a widget that I could use inside of Python (Tkinter or
> otherwise) that gives me access to setting and retrieving individual
> pixels.
>
> I've got PIL working with Tkinter in terms of copying an entire pixmap
> over, but this is INCREDIBLY inefficient.

I suggest looking at the "painter" sample script.  it implements
a simple tiling scheme, and is fairly efficient.

</F>



From loewis@informatik.hu-berlin.de  Wed Mar 29 11:34:35 2000
From: loewis@informatik.hu-berlin.de (Martin von Loewis)
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 13:34:35 +0200
Subject: [Image-SIG] Re: [Python-Help] Pixmap widget with access to pixels?
In-Reply-To: <38E1150B.21C541A7@yahoo.com> (message from Ralph Seguin on Tue,
 28 Mar 2000 12:24:43 -0800)
References: <38E1150B.21C541A7@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <200003291134.NAA16479@pandora>

> I've got PIL working with Tkinter in terms of copying an entire pixmap
> over, but this is INCREDIBLY inefficient.

This is what I had suggested. In case you have a specific pixmap
format in mind, you could see whether direct manipulation of the
format is more feasible. E.g. if you use Tk photo images, then you
could see whether direct manipulation of the photo works for you.

I haven't translated this to Python, but in wish, the following
sequence works for me

% image create photo i -file stopp.gif   # where stopp.gif is the image
% i get 10 10
255 170 170
% label .l -image i
.l
% pack .l                                # now, the photo image is displayed
% i put green -to 10 10 20 20            # I get a green rectangle
% i put black -to 15 15 16 16            # a single pixel changes color

In Tkinter, you'd start with a PhotoImage instance, and use its put
and get methods.

Hope this helps,
Martin




From wilson-k.h.cheung@motorola.com  Thu Mar 30 01:09:49 2000
From: wilson-k.h.cheung@motorola.com (Wilson-K.H. Cheung)
Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 09:09:49 +0800
Subject: [Image-SIG] installation problem
Message-ID: <38E2A95C.4ADD5870@motorola.com>

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
--------------CBE0429D995BF7B869EA3CFE
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Dear Sir/Madam,

    We are currently installing the Python application into our Unix
Station.  However, there is errors occurred after the steps of typing
"./configure" and "make" commands.

    Will you be able to help us on solving the below issues?

Thank you very much!
Best Regards
Wilson


The errors are shown as below:

typing command > ./config

loading cache ./config.cache
checking for --without-gcc... no
checking for gcc... (cached) gcc
checking whether the C compiler (gcc  ) works... yes
checking whether the C compiler (gcc  ) is a cross-compiler... no
checking whether we are using GNU C... (cached) yes
checking whether gcc accepts -g... (cached) yes
checking for ranlib... (cached) :
checking for ar... (cached) ar
checking MACHDEP... sunos5
checking for jpeg_destroy_compress in -ljpeg... (cached) no
checking for deflate in -lz... (cached) yes
checking how to run the C preprocessor... (cached) gcc -E
checking for ANSI C header files... (cached) no
checking for inline... (cached) inline
checking whether byte ordering is bigendian... (cached) yes
checking size of char... (cached) 0
checking size of short... (cached) 0
checking size of int... (cached) 0
checking size of long... (cached) 0
checking size of float... (cached) 0
checking size of double... (cached) 0
checking for working const... (cached) yes
checking for prototypes... yes
checking for unistd.h... (cached) yes
checking for getpagesize... (cached) yes
checking for working mmap... (cached) no
creating ./config.status
creating Makefile
creating ImConfig.h
ImConfig.h is unchanged

******************************************************************
typing command > make

gcc -O -I./. -I/usr/local/include -DHAVE_CONFIG_H   -c coretest.c -o
coretest.o
In file included from Imaging.h:22,
                 from coretest.c:19:
ImPlatform.h:19: #error Sorry, this library assumes ANSI header files.
ImPlatform.h:37: #error Cannot find required 32-bit integer type
ImPlatform.h:49: #error Cannot find required 32-bit floating point type
make: *** [coretest.o] Error 1



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Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Description: Card for Wilson-K.H. Cheung
Content-Disposition: attachment;
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begin:vcard 
n:Cheung;Wilson-K.H. 
tel;work:852-26668557
x-mozilla-html:FALSE
org:Motorola Semiconductors Hong Kong Ltd.
version:2.1
email;internet:wilson-k.h.cheung@motorola.com
title:Test Product Engineer
adr;quoted-printable:;;2 Dai King St. =0D=0ATai Po Industrial Estate;Tai Po;N.T. ;;Hong Kong
x-mozilla-cpt:;-1
fn:Wilson-K.H.  Cheung
end:vcard

--------------CBE0429D995BF7B869EA3CFE--



From cbarker@jps.net  Wed Mar 29 21:44:12 2000
From: cbarker@jps.net (Christopher Barker)
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 21:44:12 +0000
Subject: [Image-SIG] [Plot-SIG] Pixmap widget with access to pixels?
References: <20000329170042.DA6401CD92@dinsdale.python.org>
Message-ID: <38E2792C.9AD26839@jps.net>

I'm pretty sure you could do this with wxPython, but I've never had
occasion to do so, so I'm not quite sure. One of wxPython's shortcomings
in relation to tkinter is it's lack of a high level canvas widget, but
that might be perfedt for your needs!

http://AllDunn.com/wxPython/ 

A quick post to the wxPython mailing list would answer the question, 
or you could write to Robin Dunn, the author of wxPython
(robin@AllDunn.com).

As a bonus, you'd get to use wxPython for the rest of the App!

-Chris
-- 

Christopher Barker,
Ph.D.                                                           
cbarker@jps.net                      ---           ---           ---
http://www.jps.net/cbarker          -----@@       -----@@       -----@@
                                   ------@@@     ------@@@     ------@@@
Water Resources Engineering       ------   @    ------   @   ------   @
Coastal and Fluvial Hydrodynamics -------      ---------     --------    
------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------------------


From fredrik@pythonware.com  Thu Mar 30 08:19:34 2000
From: fredrik@pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 10:19:34 +0200
Subject: [Image-SIG] installation problem
References: <38E2A95C.4ADD5870@motorola.com>
Message-ID: <001d01bf9a20$af6c6210$0500a8c0@secret.pythonware.com>

Wilson-K.H. Cheung <wilson-k.h.cheung@motorola.com> wrote:
> checking for ANSI C header files... (cached) no
> checking for inline... (cached) inline
> checking whether byte ordering is bigendian... (cached) yes
> checking size of char... (cached) 0
> checking size of short... (cached) 0
> checking size of int... (cached) 0
> checking size of long... (cached) 0
> checking size of float... (cached) 0
> checking size of double... (cached) 0

according to autoconf, you compiler thinks that
sizeof(<any type>) is zero.  I doubt that's true...

I suggest that you do a "make distclean", and run
./configure again.  if the problem persists, studying
the config.log file might help you figure out what's
wrong.

</F>



From fredrik@pythonware.com  Thu Mar 30 08:50:00 2000
From: fredrik@pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 10:50:00 +0200
Subject: [Image-SIG] Question about adding a BOB datatype (loader/saver)
References: <007901bf9827$58ef7da0$a5e501aa@blueshiftinc.com>
Message-ID: <006c01bf9a24$effc9030$0500a8c0@secret.pythonware.com>

Brett Tribble wrote:
> I'm reworking one of the existing Image Plugins to load/save the BOB
> image format. This format is very simple. It consists of two longs
> representing Width, Height. 256 palette entries, the image data,
> and that's it!

that's not "simple", that's braindead.  image formats without any
kind of magic numbers are just plain evil.

> t does not contain an Identifier string of any sort. Can I return None =
as
> the _accept value, or is there another way of doing this?

given that there's no way to properly identify a BOB file based
on its contents only ("assert filesize =3D=3D width*height+256" isn't
strong enough), you cannot use the automatic open facilities
at all.  instead, people have to explicitly call a function in your
support module (see GdImageFile.py for an example).

you can still register a save function as usual, but as for automatic
open, you're SOL.

> After I have it working, where should I submit it to make it available
> for others?

post it somewhere, and post a link to this list and the vaults of
parnassus (see www.python.org for a pointer).  if you don't have
a website, post the code to this list, so it ends up in the archive.

</F>



From fredrik@pythonware.com  Thu Mar 30 08:58:30 2000
From: fredrik@pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 10:58:30 +0200
Subject: [Image-SIG] Question about adding a BOB datatype (loader/saver)
References: <007901bf9827$58ef7da0$a5e501aa@blueshiftinc.com> <006c01bf9a24$effc9030$0500a8c0@secret.pythonware.com>
Message-ID: <008901bf9a26$1f30a660$0500a8c0@secret.pythonware.com>

> "assert filesize =3D=3D width*height+256" isn't strong enough

and neither is "assert filesize =3D=3D 8+256*3+width*height", of course.

</F>



From KCAZA@cymbolic.com  Thu Mar 30 16:45:33 2000
From: KCAZA@cymbolic.com (Kevin Cazabon)
Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 08:45:33 -0800
Subject: [Image-SIG] TrueType and Type 1 fonts with PIL
Message-ID: <s8e31432.035@cymbolic.com>

This is an ideal solution... although it doesn=27t yet work for me (I=27m =
using Windows,
and it doesn=27t yet build on Windows)...

Thanks for the patch, I hope I can use it soon=21  It=27ll save a LOT of =
storage space,
as large PIL fonts take a lot of room, and you need to pre-compile them at =
all the
sizes you want to use.

Kevin.

>>> Joerg Baumann <Joerg.Baumann=40stud.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> =
03/25/00 05:03PM
>>>
After the short discussion about fonts and PIL, I wrote a small patch
(attached to this mail) for Imaging-1.0.

This patch uses the FreeType2 Beta library from www.freetype.org to
enable ImageFont to use TrueType and Type 1 (and other) font-files.

The FreeType2 Beta library does not run on all systems yet, but
the development of FreeType1 is stopped, and I didn=B4t want to use a soon
obsolete library. (It should run fine on most unix-boxes with gcc)

In _imaging.c  WITH_IMAGEFREETYPEFONT must be defined,
and in Setup.in the location of the freetype-library must be adjusted.

Old pil-font are loaded as it used to be:
f=3DImageFont.load(=22courR14.pil=22)
The new syntax to load fonts with freetype is:
f=3DImageFont.load(=22verdana.ttf=22,0,30)

the new options are face_index and size.
Some of the now supported fontfiles support more than one face, you
can select one with face_index (should be 0 in most cases)
Size is the height of the font in pixels.

This runs fine for me (linux 2.2.10, glibc 2.1)

please try it, and if you find a bug, contact me.

Regards,
   joerg

  Joerg Baumann       joerg.baumann=40stud.informatik.uni-erlangen.de=20
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  Beware of bugs in the above code; I have only proved it correct,=20
  not tried it.
                  Don Knuth=20
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