From reismc at gmail.com Thu May 10 20:12:45 2018 From: reismc at gmail.com (Mauricio Reis) Date: Thu, 10 May 2018 21:12:45 -0300 Subject: [Idle-dev] WinPython is freezing Message-ID: I have 2 suggestions: 1) I'm developing a program using SciKitLearn which is freezing my computer (Windows 10) and needs to reboot it; I suggest to add treatment that prevents the locking. 2) after freezing, the content of the disk program has been deleted (replaced by spaces); I suggest that the editor write a backup of the changed program, as every editor does. Att. Mauricio Reis BRAZIL -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tjreedy at udel.edu Fri May 11 12:30:53 2018 From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy) Date: Fri, 11 May 2018 12:30:53 -0400 Subject: [Idle-dev] WinPython is freezing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 5/10/2018 8:12 PM, Mauricio Reis wrote: > I have 2 suggestions: > 1) I'm developing a program using SciKitLearn which is freezing my > computer (Windows 10) and needs to reboot it; I suggest to add treatment > that prevents the locking. 1. SciKitLearn is a 3rd party package. Address concerns about its freezing misbehavior to its developers. 2. WinPython is a 3rd party distribution of Python. If it behaves differently from Python as downloaded from python.org, tell its developers. 3. If you are actually using standard Python from python.org, and have problems that do not involve 3rd party packages, the first place to post is usually python-list. > 2) after freezing, the content of the disk program has been deleted > (replaced by spaces); I suggest that the editor write a backup of the > changed program, as every editor does. 4. I have made a note to check IDLE's save process. It is not standard to leave backups in the directory after a successful save. The widely used program editor Notepad++, for instance, does not. Terry Jan Reedy From tjreedy at udel.edu Fri May 11 17:03:55 2018 From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy) Date: Fri, 11 May 2018 17:03:55 -0400 Subject: [Idle-dev] WinPython is freezing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 5/11/2018 3:09 PM, Mauricio Reis wrote: > About (2): Sorry, but you are wrong about Notepad++: it creates all > backups files in nppBackup directory below the directory of file beeing > edited! I found the backup page of the settings dialog. For me, the backup location is C:\Users\Terry\AppData\Roaming\Notepad++\backup\. Session save and timed backups every 7 seconds are on, backup on save is off. I don't believe I changed anything. This pane give me something to consider. I believe the standard paranoid save procedure is to 1. rename original file by adding '.bak'. 2. write new file with original name 3. delete original file (Super paranoid might add 2a. read new file and compare.) IDLE does not do this, but it does show a message if there is an OSError on writing. However, I cannot remember having a problem. On modern disks, write errors are uncommon. Timed autosave, issue 21152, and auto restore, would probably be more often useful as various shutdowns during a lengthy session are possible. From reismc at gmail.com Fri May 11 15:09:50 2018 From: reismc at gmail.com (Mauricio Reis) Date: Fri, 11 May 2018 16:09:50 -0300 Subject: [Idle-dev] WinPython is freezing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Teery, Tks for your attention! About (1): I will see what can I do :-) About (2): Sorry, but you are wrong about Notepad++: it creates all backups files in nppBackup directory below the directory of file beeing edited! Att., Mauricio Reis -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From petergalan at rogers.com Wed May 23 09:58:01 2018 From: petergalan at rogers.com (Peter Galan) Date: Wed, 23 May 2018 09:58:01 -0400 Subject: [Idle-dev] (auto)-completion problems Message-ID: <000901d3f29e$10fe6b60$32fb4220$@rogers.com> Hello, At first I have to thank you for your effort to maintain this great programming system. I am using it to attract my grandchildren to the computer programming technique. But I have encountered one problem, which is present even in the latest version (2.7.15). It is the automatic completion. It doesn't work as described. At first, the automatic completion should kick-out after about 2 sec when, for example the user types the name of an object and the dot. Nothing happens. The forced auto-completion requires to press the Ctrl+Space keys. At first, it opens "some" window, but, like in my example, the object "M" must not to be followed by the dot. However that window is meaningless. As soon as I try to use it (click on it, to move the cursor keys, or any other activity with the keyboard), this window immediately disappears. Is there a way to fix this problem? And I am running the Windows 7 and the 64-bit version Python. Thank you in advance for your help. Regards, Peter -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image002.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 196300 bytes Desc: not available URL: From tjreedy at udel.edu Thu May 24 15:20:17 2018 From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy) Date: Thu, 24 May 2018 15:20:17 -0400 Subject: [Idle-dev] (auto)-completion problems In-Reply-To: <000901d3f29e$10fe6b60$32fb4220$@rogers.com> References: <000901d3f29e$10fe6b60$32fb4220$@rogers.com> Message-ID: <776eea3d-1cfe-1160-f781-6c6044284f69@udel.edu> On 5/23/2018 9:58 AM, Peter Galan wrote: > At first I have to thank you for your effort to maintain > this great programming system. Thank you. > I am using it to attract my grandchildren > to the computer programming technique. Great. I started my daughter at around 14. > But I have encountered one > problem, which is present even in the latest version (2.7.15). This is the latest maintenance release of an 8-year-old version. It only gets security and build fixes and a small subset of bug fixes. Currently, most bugfixes are not backported to 2.7. This includes IDLE changes. 3.6 is the current version of Python and 3.7 will be out next month. Please consider starting your grandkids with 3.6 or 3.7. IDLE is being actively improved, but only for 3.6+. On Windows, 2.7.15 uses tcl/tk GUI framework 8.5.15, whereas Python 3.6 comes with the newer and better tk 8.6.6. > It is the > automatic completion. It doesn?t work as described. At first, the > automatic completion should kick-out after about 2 sec when, for example > the user types the name of an object and the dot. Nothing happens. Completing a name you have started and adding an attribute after '.' are 2 different operations. Auto-popup is only for the latter. If I enter 'int.' in either Shell or an editor, a box pops up with the 7 int attributes that do not start with '_', from 'bit_length' to 'to_bytes'. I have 64-bit Win 10 and both installed 64-bit and locally built 32-bit debug binaries. If you do not see the above, there is either a problem with the tcl/tk gui framework, which IDLE uses, on Win 7, or with your particular installation. A box pops up only if the object has attributes *and* if IDLE knows about them. The IDLE doc (Help => IDLE Help, and online) section on Completions mentions that in the editor, you likely have run the code already written for completions to work properly. > The > forced auto-completion requires to press the Ctrl+Space keys. This is required if you have already typed part of a name *before* the box appears. > At first, > it opens ?some? window, but, like in my example, the object ?M? must not > to be followed by the dot. Because "M" does not have attributes, at least none that IDLE knows about. > However that window is meaningless. On the contrary, this box in the screenshot is exactly as intended, and what I see also upon entering 'M'. 'MemoryError' is the first visible name beginning with M. > As soon > as I try to use it (click on it, to move the cursor keys, or any other > activity with the keyboard), this window immediately disappears. With 2.7.15, I can move with up/down arrow keys and click after moving, but there are some bugs. Clicking without movement and do not work. These and other problems were fixed last summer for 3.6+. > Is there a way to fix this problem? Some of your problems may be with your installation, but a full fix requires upgrading to 3.6+ > And I am running the Windows 7 and the > 64-bit version Python. Thank you in advance for your help. -- Terry Jan Reedy From ether.joe at gmail.com Thu May 24 16:25:43 2018 From: ether.joe at gmail.com (Sean Felipe Wolfe) Date: Thu, 24 May 2018 13:25:43 -0700 Subject: [Idle-dev] (auto)-completion problems In-Reply-To: <776eea3d-1cfe-1160-f781-6c6044284f69@udel.edu> References: <000901d3f29e$10fe6b60$32fb4220$@rogers.com> <776eea3d-1cfe-1160-f781-6c6044284f69@udel.edu> Message-ID: Nice to hear that IDLE has fixes in the 3.6/3.7 versions. I'll be sure to check them out ! Greetings and best wishes Peter ! On Thu, May 24, 2018 at 12:20 PM, Terry Reedy wrote: > On 5/23/2018 9:58 AM, Peter Galan wrote: > > At first I have to thank you for your effort to maintain this great >> programming system. >> > > Thank you. > > I am using it to attract my grandchildren to the computer programming >> technique. >> > > Great. I started my daughter at around 14. > > But I have encountered one problem, which is present even in the latest >> version (2.7.15). >> > > This is the latest maintenance release of an 8-year-old version. It only > gets security and build fixes and a small subset of bug fixes. Currently, > most bugfixes are not backported to 2.7. This includes IDLE changes. > > 3.6 is the current version of Python and 3.7 will be out next month. > Please consider starting your grandkids with 3.6 or 3.7. IDLE is being > actively improved, but only for 3.6+. > > On Windows, 2.7.15 uses tcl/tk GUI framework 8.5.15, whereas Python 3.6 > comes with the newer and better tk 8.6.6. > > It is the automatic completion. It doesn?t work as described. At first, >> the automatic completion should kick-out after about 2 sec when, for >> example the user types the name of an object and the dot. Nothing happens. >> > > Completing a name you have started and adding an attribute after '.' are 2 > different operations. Auto-popup is only for the latter. If I enter > 'int.' in either Shell or an editor, a box pops up with the 7 int > attributes that do not start with '_', from 'bit_length' to 'to_bytes'. > > I have 64-bit Win 10 and both installed 64-bit and locally built 32-bit > debug binaries. If you do not see the above, there is either a problem > with the tcl/tk gui framework, which IDLE uses, on Win 7, or with your > particular installation. > > A box pops up only if the object has attributes *and* if IDLE knows about > them. The IDLE doc (Help => IDLE Help, and online) section on Completions > mentions that in the editor, you likely have run the code already written > for completions to work properly. > > The forced auto-completion requires to press the Ctrl+Space keys. >> > > This is required if you have already typed part of a name *before* the box > appears. > > At first, it opens ?some? window, but, like in my example, the object ?M? >> must not to be followed by the dot. >> > > Because "M" does not have attributes, at least none that IDLE knows about. > > However that window is meaningless. >> > > On the contrary, this box in the screenshot is exactly as intended, and > what I see also upon entering 'M'. 'MemoryError' is the first > visible name beginning with M. > > As soon as I try to use it (click on it, to move the cursor keys, or any >> other activity with the keyboard), this window immediately disappears. >> > > With 2.7.15, I can move with up/down arrow keys and click after moving, > but there are some bugs. Clicking without movement and do not > work. These and other problems were fixed last summer for 3.6+. > > Is there a way to fix this problem? >> > > Some of your problems may be with your installation, but a full fix > requires upgrading to 3.6+ > > > And I am running the Windows 7 and the 64-bit version Python. Thank you in >> advance for your help. >> > > -- > Terry Jan Reedy > > _______________________________________________ > IDLE-dev mailing list > IDLE-dev at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/idle-dev > -- A musician must make music, an artist must paint, a poet must write, if he is to be ultimately at peace with himself. - Abraham Maslow -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From petergalan at rogers.com Fri May 25 08:35:52 2018 From: petergalan at rogers.com (Peter Galan) Date: Fri, 25 May 2018 08:35:52 -0400 Subject: [Idle-dev] (auto)-completion problems References: <000901d3f29e$10fe6b60$32fb4220$@rogers.com> <776eea3d-1cfe-1160-f781-6c6044284f69@udel.edu> Message-ID: <000001d3f424$ec0ea8a0$c42bf9e0$@rogers.com> Hello Terry, Thank you for a prompt reply. So, I've installed the latest version of the Python 3 (3.6.5) but unfortunately it behaves almost identically. So, my program have the classes and objects and they have attributes, but no auto-completion window appears when I write the object name followed by the dot. I can only force some window to appear (the same as with the Python 2) by pressing the Ctrl+Space, but that window is not related to any of my objects. Apparently it contains all possible generic attributes. Actually I do need to type anything, just to press the Ctrl+Space for that window to appear. The only difference from the Python 2 is, that now I can use at that window and select any item, which then appears in my program. But you mentioned to wait for the next version, 3.7, so I'll wait. But I have another problem/question with the Python 3. With the Python 2 I used the VPython (version 6), which contains a very nice 3D graphics library. Now none of my previous programs (using "visual" modules) don't work of course. So, is there a similar graphical module for the Python 3? Somewhere I read that at first a program (module?) with the name "Anaconda" has to be installed and then VPython will work identically with the Python 3. But I assume that there are some dedicated graphical modules for the Python 3 as well. Can you please advise me? Regards, Peter -----Original Message----- From: Terry Reedy [mailto:tjreedy at udel.edu] Sent: May-24-18 3:20 PM To: Peter Galan; idle-dev at python.org Subject: Re: (auto)-completion problems On 5/23/2018 9:58 AM, Peter Galan wrote: > At first I have to thank you for your effort to maintain this great > programming system. Thank you. > I am using it to attract my grandchildren to the computer programming > technique. Great. I started my daughter at around 14. > But I have encountered one > problem, which is present even in the latest version (2.7.15). This is the latest maintenance release of an 8-year-old version. It only gets security and build fixes and a small subset of bug fixes. Currently, most bugfixes are not backported to 2.7. This includes IDLE changes. 3.6 is the current version of Python and 3.7 will be out next month. Please consider starting your grandkids with 3.6 or 3.7. IDLE is being actively improved, but only for 3.6+. On Windows, 2.7.15 uses tcl/tk GUI framework 8.5.15, whereas Python 3.6 comes with the newer and better tk 8.6.6. > It is the > automatic completion. It doesn?t work as described. At first, the > automatic completion should kick-out after about 2 sec when, for > example the user types the name of an object and the dot. Nothing happens. Completing a name you have started and adding an attribute after '.' are 2 different operations. Auto-popup is only for the latter. If I enter 'int.' in either Shell or an editor, a box pops up with the 7 int attributes that do not start with '_', from 'bit_length' to 'to_bytes'. I have 64-bit Win 10 and both installed 64-bit and locally built 32-bit debug binaries. If you do not see the above, there is either a problem with the tcl/tk gui framework, which IDLE uses, on Win 7, or with your particular installation. A box pops up only if the object has attributes *and* if IDLE knows about them. The IDLE doc (Help => IDLE Help, and online) section on Completions mentions that in the editor, you likely have run the code already written for completions to work properly. > The > forced auto-completion requires to press the Ctrl+Space keys. This is required if you have already typed part of a name *before* the box appears. > At first, > it opens ?some? window, but, like in my example, the object ?M? must > not to be followed by the dot. Because "M" does not have attributes, at least none that IDLE knows about. > However that window is meaningless. On the contrary, this box in the screenshot is exactly as intended, and what I see also upon entering 'M'. 'MemoryError' is the first visible name beginning with M. > As soon > as I try to use it (click on it, to move the cursor keys, or any other > activity with the keyboard), this window immediately disappears. With 2.7.15, I can move with up/down arrow keys and click after moving, but there are some bugs. Clicking without movement and do not work. These and other problems were fixed last summer for 3.6+. > Is there a way to fix this problem? Some of your problems may be with your installation, but a full fix requires upgrading to 3.6+ > And I am running the Windows 7 and the 64-bit version Python. Thank > you in advance for your help. -- Terry Jan Reedy From EPaine13 at ranelagh.bracknell-forest.sch.uk Fri May 25 11:52:19 2018 From: EPaine13 at ranelagh.bracknell-forest.sch.uk (Elisha Paine) Date: Fri, 25 May 2018 15:52:19 +0000 Subject: [Idle-dev] Simple IDLE improvement Message-ID: Hi IDLE team I love IDLE (so simple and lightweight compared with other IDEs) and was just wondering if you could add the following code into pyshell.py and pyshell.pyw (as I have done on mine) because, as you will be able to tell, it sets DPI awareness (and on my set-up makes the text a lot clearer) import ctypes try: ctypes.windll.shcore.SetProcessDpiAwareness (True) except: pass Many thanks, Elisha ________________________________ Elisha Paine Ranelagh School Confidentiality and Disclaimer: This email and its attachments are intended for the addressee only and may be confidential or the subject of legal privilege. The views expressed in this email are those of the individual and not necessarily the views or opinions of Ranelagh School. If this email and its attachments have come to you in error you must notify the school network manager, and immediately delete them. Email: administrator at ranelagh.bracknell-forest.sch.uk. You should not copy, distribute or show them to anyone else. This email and any attached files have been scanned for the presence of computer viruses. However, you are advised that you open any attachments at your own risk. Please note that electronic mail may be monitored in accordance with the Telecommunications (Lawful Business Practices) (Interception of Communications) Regulations 2000 From tjreedy at udel.edu Sat May 26 14:50:04 2018 From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy) Date: Sat, 26 May 2018 14:50:04 -0400 Subject: [Idle-dev] (auto)-completion problems In-Reply-To: <000001d3f424$ec0ea8a0$c42bf9e0$@rogers.com> References: <000901d3f29e$10fe6b60$32fb4220$@rogers.com> <776eea3d-1cfe-1160-f781-6c6044284f69@udel.edu> <000001d3f424$ec0ea8a0$c42bf9e0$@rogers.com> Message-ID: On 5/25/2018 8:35 AM, Peter Galan wrote: > Thank you for a prompt reply. So, I've installed the latest version of the Python 3 (3.6.5) but unfortunately it behaves almost identically. So, my program have the classes and objects and they have attributes, but no auto-completion window appears when I write the object name followed by the dot. I can only force some window to appear (the same as with the Python 2) by pressing the Ctrl+Space, but that window is not related to any of my objects. Without knowing exactly what you did, I cannot add to what I wrote before. Did you try 'int.', in both shell and editor? What does it do for you? Did you try to "run the code already written for completions to work properly." ? > Apparently it contains all possible generic attributes. Actually I do need to type anything, just to press the Ctrl+Space for that window to appear. The only difference from the Python 2 is, that now I can use at that window and select any item, which then appears in my program. > But you mentioned to wait for the next version, 3.7, so I'll wait. Completions are the same in 3.6.5 and 3.7.0. This list is for IDLE development. Questions about VPython and Anaconda are off-topic, and I know little about either. Try a VPython list, or python-list, or StackOverflow. Please send any response to the list. -- Terry Jan Reedy From tjreedy at udel.edu Sat May 26 14:50:04 2018 From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy) Date: Sat, 26 May 2018 14:50:04 -0400 Subject: [Idle-dev] (auto)-completion problems In-Reply-To: <000001d3f424$ec0ea8a0$c42bf9e0$@rogers.com> References: <000901d3f29e$10fe6b60$32fb4220$@rogers.com> <776eea3d-1cfe-1160-f781-6c6044284f69@udel.edu> <000001d3f424$ec0ea8a0$c42bf9e0$@rogers.com> Message-ID: On 5/25/2018 8:35 AM, Peter Galan wrote: > Thank you for a prompt reply. So, I've installed the latest version of the Python 3 (3.6.5) but unfortunately it behaves almost identically. So, my program have the classes and objects and they have attributes, but no auto-completion window appears when I write the object name followed by the dot. I can only force some window to appear (the same as with the Python 2) by pressing the Ctrl+Space, but that window is not related to any of my objects. Without knowing exactly what you did, I cannot add to what I wrote before. Did you try 'int.', in both shell and editor? What does it do for you? Did you try to "run the code already written for completions to work properly." ? > Apparently it contains all possible generic attributes. Actually I do need to type anything, just to press the Ctrl+Space for that window to appear. The only difference from the Python 2 is, that now I can use at that window and select any item, which then appears in my program. > But you mentioned to wait for the next version, 3.7, so I'll wait. Completions are the same in 3.6.5 and 3.7.0. This list is for IDLE development. Questions about VPython and Anaconda are off-topic, and I know little about either. Try a VPython list, or python-list, or StackOverflow. Please send any response to the list. -- Terry Jan Reedy From tjreedy at udel.edu Sat May 26 19:43:16 2018 From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy) Date: Sat, 26 May 2018 19:43:16 -0400 Subject: [Idle-dev] Simple IDLE improvement In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9147c1c4-eb2d-e0ff-3ab5-5d311766c473@udel.edu> On 5/25/2018 11:52 AM, Elisha Paine wrote: > Hi IDLE team > > I love IDLE (so simple and lightweight compared with other IDEs) and was just wondering if you could add the following code into pyshell.py and pyshell.pyw There is, currently, no pyshell.pyw. pyshell.py is run however IDLE is started. (as I have done on mine) because, as you will be able to tell, it sets DPI awareness (and on my set-up makes the text a lot clearer) On my wide-screen monitor attached to a video card, using white on dark. I would not say 'a lot' clearer, but the text is noticeably clearer, box lines are sharper, white and some colors are brighter, and some characters are better formed. After comparing IDLE without and with the patch to Command Prompt, using the same font and nearly the same size, I conclude that Command Prompt has dpi awareness turned on. > import ctypes > try: ctypes.windll.shcore.SetProcessDpiAwareness (True) > except: pass Thank you. I like it. I opened https://bugs.python.org/issue33656 -- Terry Jan Reedy