From taleinat at gmail.com  Mon May 14 00:32:48 2007
From: taleinat at gmail.com (Tal Einat)
Date: Mon, 14 May 2007 01:32:48 +0300
Subject: [Idle-dev] [Catalog-sig] IDLE extensions category
In-Reply-To: <7afdee2f0704262325s7d4ca673w71d50f747c865ae2@mail.gmail.com>
References: <7afdee2f0704120526p408208bbq771500b15fb76d12@mail.gmail.com>
	<200704270943.22696.richardjones@optushome.com.au>
	<7afdee2f0704262325s7d4ca673w71d50f747c865ae2@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7afdee2f0705131532n65418cadv239c700620501893@mail.gmail.com>

On 4/27/07, Tal Einat <taleinat at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Woohoo, an IDLE category in the cheeseshop! I'll drink to that!
>
> I'll upload some of my extensions (such as SearchBar) ASAP.


I've uploaded two extensions - SearchBar and Squeezer.

I included a README file with installation instructions, and a
add_to_config_extensions.def file with the text which needs to be copied
into config-extensions.def.

Please take a minute to download and tell me what you think about the
distribution format...

- Tal
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From alan.gauld at btinternet.com  Sat May 19 23:58:16 2007
From: alan.gauld at btinternet.com (Alan Gauld)
Date: Sat, 19 May 2007 22:58:16 +0100
Subject: [Idle-dev] hi, newbie questions
References: <dc2a299f0702032342o6430100et4985dc465a382246@mail.gmail.com><7afdee2f0702080648g6b85754ek77602f6c6e579fd6@mail.gmail.com><dc2a299f0702082051k3a921a70hdeb96d17b39ab01d@mail.gmail.com><7afdee2f0702090333h28951718v32e97cdb1e8be3ed@mail.gmail.com>
	<dc2a299f0702090757r680c54c7nd899cc8481833299@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <f2nruq$gkj$1@sea.gmane.org>

"phil jones" <interstar at gmail.com> wrote 

>> I think wxPython is slowly gaining momentum, with the 
>> lack of a WYSIWYG GUI builder holding it back. 

PMFJI, But doesn't Boa Constructor do wxPython GUI building?
I've never used it and in fact only just downloaded it. I haven't 
tried using it yet but the screenshots look good ;-)

>> As it is, wxPython is great if you like to write your GUI 
>> by hand. 

I agree, and now that Robin has a book out its much easier 
to use. One of the reasons I stuck with Tkinter for a long 
time was that I had Grayson's book and all the Tcl/Tk docs 
to fall back on. Robin's book is much better than Graysons 
IMHO and answers almost all the questions I've had when 
using wxPython.

But like Phil, I like to use the batteries included wherever 
I can. and especially in my tutorial pages. So anything 
that improves Tkinter /Tix(*) and IDLE is good by me!

(*)Although I haven't tried using tix yet, but I'm aiming to 
just as soon as I get some free cycles.

-- 
Alan Gauld
Author of the Learn to Program web site
http://www.freenetpages.co.uk/hp/alan.gauld



From cheeseandquackers2 at hotmail.com  Wed May 23 15:02:05 2007
From: cheeseandquackers2 at hotmail.com (Tim Smith)
Date: Wed, 23 May 2007 23:02:05 +1000
Subject: [Idle-dev] Default open file in IDLE
Message-ID: <BAY112-W1669132F74C344EBACCC9382350@phx.gbl>


Hi
I've recently started learning Python, and I am using IDLE for the most part.
What I would like to ask is, is there any way in which I can change the default open file location?
I'm running the version of IDLE that came with mandriva 2007, if that's any help.
Thank you in advance for any help,
Tim
_________________________________________________________________
Explore the seven wonders of the world
http://search.msn.com/results.aspx?q=7+wonders+world&mkt=en-US&form=QBRE

From taleinat at gmail.com  Thu May 24 15:47:24 2007
From: taleinat at gmail.com (Tal Einat)
Date: Thu, 24 May 2007 16:47:24 +0300
Subject: [Idle-dev] Default open file in IDLE
In-Reply-To: <BAY112-W1669132F74C344EBACCC9382350@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY112-W1669132F74C344EBACCC9382350@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <7afdee2f0705240647i9b6d8a3mfcfb21e73ea35629@mail.gmail.com>

On 5/23/07, Tim Smith <cheeseandquackers2 at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Hi
> I've recently started learning Python, and I am using IDLE for the most
> part.
> What I would like to ask is, is there any way in which I can change the
> default open file location?
> I'm running the version of IDLE that came with mandriva 2007, if that's
> any help.
> Thank you in advance for any help,
> Tim


Nothing user friendly like a config option. You can edit IOBinding.py, and
change the defaultfilename() method as you like.

Currently, the Open/Save dialogs uses the directory of the currently open
file, or the directory that IDLE was run otherwise. Along with the Recent
Files menu (under File), this is fine for me.


As a development note, we could use a reasonable platform-specific default
directory, e.g. My Documents under Windows, ~/ under Linux/Unix, with a
failsafe which would use the the current behavior if that directory doesn't
exist. We could also make these user configurable.

Comments?

- Tal
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From taleinat at gmail.com  Thu May 24 21:34:07 2007
From: taleinat at gmail.com (Tal Einat)
Date: Thu, 24 May 2007 22:34:07 +0300
Subject: [Idle-dev] Dealing with a few feature requests
Message-ID: <7afdee2f0705241234p2dcfd0c1s7266d461fbb3a221@mail.gmail.com>

A few requests that have come up, and I want to hear some comments on them:

* Ctrl+Right behavior: It as been suggested that pressing Ctrl+Right should
jump to the next word ending, instead of the next word beginning like it
currently does. There is currently no way to get to the end of a word with
the keyboard except to use the arrow keys repeatedly. It is also
non-intuitive to some users.

* Cursor color change: For changes to the cursor's color to take effect,
IDLE must be restarted. This is a known issue with Tk's Text widget, so I
don't see how we could work around this... Still, we could have a popup
message appear after a change to the cursor color in the config dialog,
informing the user of this. I've seen several bug reports on this already,
and have heard by word of mouth that this has frustrated several more
people.

* Tabbed pages - This is the #1 feature request right now. I know several
people who don't use IDLE just because of the lack of tabbed pages. Is
anyone willing to help me work on this? I have done initial work (creating a
solid TabbedPages widget), what's left is mostly hacking IDLE's internals to
use the TabbedPages widget instead of opening new windows.

- Tal
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From dblank at brynmawr.edu  Thu May 24 21:59:03 2007
From: dblank at brynmawr.edu (Douglas S. Blank)
Date: Thu, 24 May 2007 15:59:03 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Idle-dev] Dealing with a few feature requests
In-Reply-To: <7afdee2f0705241234p2dcfd0c1s7266d461fbb3a221@mail.gmail.com>
References: <7afdee2f0705241234p2dcfd0c1s7266d461fbb3a221@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <34913.165.106.10.226.1180036743.squirrel@webmail.brynmawr.edu>

Hi Tal,

On Thu, May 24, 2007 3:34 pm, Tal Einat said:
> A few requests that have come up, and I want to hear some comments on
> them:
>
> * Ctrl+Right behavior: It as been suggested that pressing Ctrl+Right
> should
> jump to the next word ending, instead of the next word beginning like it
> currently does. There is currently no way to get to the end of a word with
> the keyboard except to use the arrow keys repeatedly. It is also
> non-intuitive to some users.

That sounds fine to me.

> * Cursor color change: For changes to the cursor's color to take effect,
> IDLE must be restarted. This is a known issue with Tk's Text widget, so I
> don't see how we could work around this... Still, we could have a popup
> message appear after a change to the cursor color in the config dialog,
> informing the user of this. I've seen several bug reports on this already,
> and have heard by word of mouth that this has frustrated several more
> people.

The Tk people should fix that.

> * Tabbed pages - This is the #1 feature request right now. I know several
> people who don't use IDLE just because of the lack of tabbed pages. Is
> anyone willing to help me work on this? I have done initial work (creating
> a
> solid TabbedPages widget), what's left is mostly hacking IDLE's internals
> to
> use the TabbedPages widget instead of opening new windows.

This would be great. Especially if it could be configured to look like Dr.
Python (or many others) where the interpreter is in one pane, and the tab
windows were in the other. I would help with this.

Some other suggestions:

1) Make the default color syntax formatter default to python before saving
an unnamed buffer. Most people use IDLE for editing Python files, so that
seems reasonable. Of course, saving the file in another format would still
change the formatter.

2) Disable by default (or ask for confirmation on) Control+p. How many
times students accidentally press control+p rather than alt+p, and send
the last two hours of editing to the printer. A "select printer dialog"
could also prevent this mistake.

-Doug

> - Tal

-- 
Douglas S. Blank
Associate Professor, Bryn Mawr College
http://cs.brynmawr.edu/~dblank/
Office: 610 526 6501


From fuzzyman at voidspace.org.uk  Thu May 24 22:31:18 2007
From: fuzzyman at voidspace.org.uk (Michael Foord)
Date: Thu, 24 May 2007 21:31:18 +0100
Subject: [Idle-dev] Dealing with a few feature requests
In-Reply-To: <7afdee2f0705241234p2dcfd0c1s7266d461fbb3a221@mail.gmail.com>
References: <7afdee2f0705241234p2dcfd0c1s7266d461fbb3a221@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4655F616.5030406@voidspace.org.uk>

Tal Einat wrote:
> A few requests that have come up, and I want to hear some comments on 
> them:
>
> * Ctrl+Right behavior: It as been suggested that pressing Ctrl+Right 
> should jump to the next word ending, instead of the next word 
> beginning like it currently does. There is currently no way to get to 
> the end of a word with the keyboard except to use the arrow keys 
> repeatedly. It is also non-intuitive to some users.

This is not who most editors I use work, and would be unintuitive to me.


>
> * Cursor color change: For changes to the cursor's color to take 
> effect, IDLE must be restarted. This is a known issue with Tk's Text 
> widget, so I don't see how we could work around this... Still, we 
> could have a popup message appear after a change to the cursor color 
> in the config dialog, informing the user of this. I've seen several 
> bug reports on this already, and have heard by word of mouth that this 
> has frustrated several more people.
>

I've never noticed this. :-)

> * Tabbed pages - This is the #1 feature request right now. I know 
> several people who don't use IDLE just because of the lack of tabbed 
> pages. Is anyone willing to help me work on this? I have done initial 
> work (creating a solid TabbedPages widget), what's left is mostly 
> hacking IDLE's internals to use the TabbedPages widget instead of 
> opening new windows.
>

This would be a big bonus!!


Michael Foord
http://www.voidspace.org.uk/python/articles.shtml

> - Tal
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> IDLE-dev mailing list
> IDLE-dev at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/idle-dev
>   


From fuzzyman at voidspace.org.uk  Thu May 24 22:52:24 2007
From: fuzzyman at voidspace.org.uk (Michael Foord)
Date: Thu, 24 May 2007 21:52:24 +0100
Subject: [Idle-dev] Dealing with a few feature requests
In-Reply-To: <4655F616.5030406@voidspace.org.uk>
References: <7afdee2f0705241234p2dcfd0c1s7266d461fbb3a221@mail.gmail.com>
	<4655F616.5030406@voidspace.org.uk>
Message-ID: <4655FB08.2070505@voidspace.org.uk>

Michael Foord wrote:
> Tal Einat wrote:
>   
>> A few requests that have come up, and I want to hear some comments on 
>> them:
>>
>> * Ctrl+Right behavior: It as been suggested that pressing Ctrl+Right 
>> should jump to the next word ending, instead of the next word 
>> beginning like it currently does. There is currently no way to get to 
>> the end of a word with the keyboard except to use the arrow keys 
>> repeatedly. It is also non-intuitive to some users.
>>     
>
> This is not who most editors I use work, and would be unintuitive to me.
>
>   
Oops...

Not *how* most editors I use work...

Michael


>   
>> * Cursor color change: For changes to the cursor's color to take 
>> effect, IDLE must be restarted. This is a known issue with Tk's Text 
>> widget, so I don't see how we could work around this... Still, we 
>> could have a popup message appear after a change to the cursor color 
>> in the config dialog, informing the user of this. I've seen several 
>> bug reports on this already, and have heard by word of mouth that this 
>> has frustrated several more people.
>>
>>     
>
> I've never noticed this. :-)
>
>   
>> * Tabbed pages - This is the #1 feature request right now. I know 
>> several people who don't use IDLE just because of the lack of tabbed 
>> pages. Is anyone willing to help me work on this? I have done initial 
>> work (creating a solid TabbedPages widget), what's left is mostly 
>> hacking IDLE's internals to use the TabbedPages widget instead of 
>> opening new windows.
>>
>>     
>
> This would be a big bonus!!
>
>
> Michael Foord
> http://www.voidspace.org.uk/python/articles.shtml
>
>   
>> - Tal
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> IDLE-dev mailing list
>> IDLE-dev at python.org
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/idle-dev
>>   
>>     
>
> _______________________________________________
> IDLE-dev mailing list
> IDLE-dev at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/idle-dev
>
>   


From broek at cc.umanitoba.ca  Thu May 24 23:21:13 2007
From: broek at cc.umanitoba.ca (Brian van den Broek)
Date: Thu, 24 May 2007 17:21:13 -0400
Subject: [Idle-dev] Dealing with a few feature requests
In-Reply-To: <34913.165.106.10.226.1180036743.squirrel@webmail.brynmawr.edu>
References: <7afdee2f0705241234p2dcfd0c1s7266d461fbb3a221@mail.gmail.com>
	<34913.165.106.10.226.1180036743.squirrel@webmail.brynmawr.edu>
Message-ID: <465601C9.5010703@cc.umanitoba.ca>

Douglas S. Blank said unto the world upon 05/24/2007 03:59 PM:

<snip>

> Some other suggestions:
> 
> 1) Make the default color syntax formatter default to python before saving
> an unnamed buffer. Most people use IDLE for editing Python files, so that
> seems reasonable. Of course, saving the file in another format would still
> change the formatter.
> 
> 2) Disable by default (or ask for confirmation on) Control+p. How many
> times students accidentally press control+p rather than alt+p, and send
> the last two hours of editing to the printer. A "select printer dialog"
> could also prevent this mistake.
> 
> -Doug


+1 x 2

Tabbed pages would be nice, but these 2 are the two biggest bugbears 
of mine about IDLE.

Best,

Brian vdB

From alan.gauld at btinternet.com  Fri May 25 11:12:20 2007
From: alan.gauld at btinternet.com (Alan Gauld)
Date: Fri, 25 May 2007 10:12:20 +0100
Subject: [Idle-dev] Dealing with a few feature requests
References: <7afdee2f0705241234p2dcfd0c1s7266d461fbb3a221@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <f369ap$cf8$1@sea.gmane.org>


"Tal Einat" <taleinat at gmail.com> wrote

> * Ctrl+Right behavior: It as been suggested that pressing Ctrl+Right 
> should
> jump to the next word ending, instead of the next word beginning 
> like it
> currently does.

So far as I can tell the current bahaviour is the normal Windows
behaviour so any change would make IDLE non standard. Not sure
about other platforms though. (Its also how gvim behaves.)


> * Cursor color change: For changes to the cursor's color to take 
> effect,
> IDLE must be restarted. This is a known issue with Tk's Text widget, 
> so I
> don't see how we could work around this... Still, we could have a 
> popup
> message appear after a change to the cursor color

A popup is better than nothing apparently happening.

> * Tabbed pages - This is the #1 feature request right now.

me too. :-)
Although sometimes the multiple windows are better since you
can see multiple files at once... but the desktop soon gets cluttered.

Alan G 



From taleinat at gmail.com  Fri May 25 11:37:17 2007
From: taleinat at gmail.com (Tal Einat)
Date: Fri, 25 May 2007 12:37:17 +0300
Subject: [Idle-dev] Dealing with a few feature requests
In-Reply-To: <34913.165.106.10.226.1180036743.squirrel@webmail.brynmawr.edu>
References: <7afdee2f0705241234p2dcfd0c1s7266d461fbb3a221@mail.gmail.com>
	<34913.165.106.10.226.1180036743.squirrel@webmail.brynmawr.edu>
Message-ID: <7afdee2f0705250237w58aa43adkce86e64f2016fba8@mail.gmail.com>

On 5/24/07, Douglas S. Blank <dblank at brynmawr.edu> wrote:
>
>
> Some other suggestions:
>
> 1) Make the default color syntax formatter default to python before saving
> an unnamed buffer. Most people use IDLE for editing Python files, so that
> seems reasonable. Of course, saving the file in another format would still
>
> change the formatter.


Sounds reasonable to me as well. I believe this has already been asked for
in the past, I'll have to look it up.

2) Disable by default (or ask for confirmation on) Control+p. How many
> times students accidentally press control+p rather than alt+p, and send
> the last two hours of editing to the printer. A "select printer dialog"
> could also prevent this mistake.


After prvious discussion on idle-dev, I've recently submitted a patch which
causes a yes/no dialog asking "are you sure you want to print?" to appear.
If you like the idea, please try it out and post a (hopefully positive)
review: SourceForge patch
1717170<https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&aid=1717170&group_id=5470&atid=305470>
.

BTW, the hotkey for print has been recently changed to Ctrl+t instead of
Ctrl+p in the SVN.


- Tal
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From taleinat at gmail.com  Fri May 25 11:41:02 2007
From: taleinat at gmail.com (Tal Einat)
Date: Fri, 25 May 2007 12:41:02 +0300
Subject: [Idle-dev] Dealing with a few feature requests
In-Reply-To: <f369ap$cf8$1@sea.gmane.org>
References: <7afdee2f0705241234p2dcfd0c1s7266d461fbb3a221@mail.gmail.com>
	<f369ap$cf8$1@sea.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <7afdee2f0705250241m7c70783coede3baba34d6cc2d@mail.gmail.com>

On 5/25/07, Alan Gauld <alan.gauld at btinternet.com> wrote:
>
>
> > * Tabbed pages - This is the #1 feature request right now.
>
> me too. :-)
> Although sometimes the multiple windows are better since you
> can see multiple files at once... but the desktop soon gets cluttered.


We could have two menu options: "open in new window" and "open in new tab",
like emacs. We'd need to decide which of these Ctrl+O would call, which
would make that option the de-facto default.

- Tal
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From taleinat at gmail.com  Fri May 25 11:54:02 2007
From: taleinat at gmail.com (Tal Einat)
Date: Fri, 25 May 2007 12:54:02 +0300
Subject: [Idle-dev] Dealing with a few feature requests
In-Reply-To: <7afdee2f0705241234p2dcfd0c1s7266d461fbb3a221@mail.gmail.com>
References: <7afdee2f0705241234p2dcfd0c1s7266d461fbb3a221@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7afdee2f0705250254r419c155aif3962b2b325d36b6@mail.gmail.com>

On 5/24/07, Tal Einat <taleinat at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> * Cursor color change: For changes to the cursor's color to take effect,
> IDLE must be restarted. This is a known issue with Tk's Text widget, so I
> don't see how we could work around this... Still, we could have a popup
> message appear after a change to the cursor color in the config dialog,
> informing the user of this. I've seen several bug reports on this already,
> and have heard by word of mouth that this has frustrated several more
> people.


Unbelievable - never believe what people tell you about Tk without checking
for youself!

I just discovered that Tk's Text widget is just fine! IDLE's configHandler
wasn't bothering to update the cursor color. I just added 3 lines of code,
and -voila-! it works.

I'll upload a patch to SF in a bit, but for those of you who want to try it
out, copy/paste this into configDialog.py:

    def ActivateConfigChanges(self):
        "Dynamically apply configuration changes"
        winInstances=self.parent.instance_dict.keys()
        theme = idleConf.CurrentTheme()
        cursor_color = idleConf.GetHighlight(theme, 'cursor', fgBg='fg')
        for instance in winInstances:
            instance.ResetColorizer()
            instance.ResetFont()
            instance.set_notabs_indentwidth()
            instance.ApplyKeybindings()
            instance.reset_help_menu_entries()
            instance.text.configure(insertbackground=cursor_color)

- Tal
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From taleinat at gmail.com  Fri May 25 15:16:19 2007
From: taleinat at gmail.com (Tal Einat)
Date: Fri, 25 May 2007 16:16:19 +0300
Subject: [Idle-dev] Dealing with a few feature requests
In-Reply-To: <7afdee2f0705250254r419c155aif3962b2b325d36b6@mail.gmail.com>
References: <7afdee2f0705241234p2dcfd0c1s7266d461fbb3a221@mail.gmail.com>
	<7afdee2f0705250254r419c155aif3962b2b325d36b6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7afdee2f0705250616x453d1f55k4dba5e0cae111f37@mail.gmail.com>

On 5/25/07, Tal Einat <taleinat at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On 5/24/07, Tal Einat <taleinat at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> > * Cursor color change: For changes to the cursor's color to take effect,
> > IDLE must be restarted. This is a known issue with Tk's Text widget, so I
> > don't see how we could work around this... Still, we could have a popup
> > message appear after a change to the cursor color in the config dialog,
> > informing the user of this. I've seen several bug reports on this already,
> > and have heard by word of mouth that this has frustrated several more
> > people.
>
>
> Unbelievable - never believe what people tell you about Tk without
> checking for youself!
>
> I just discovered that Tk's Text widget is just fine! IDLE's configHandler
> wasn't bothering to update the cursor color. I just added 3 lines of code,
> and -voila-! it works.
>
> I'll upload a patch to SF in a bit, but for those of you who want to try
> it out, copy/paste this into configDialog.py:
>
>     def ActivateConfigChanges(self):
>         "Dynamically apply configuration changes"
>         winInstances=self.parent.instance_dict.keys()
>         theme = idleConf.CurrentTheme()
>         cursor_color = idleConf.GetHighlight(theme, 'cursor', fgBg='fg')
>         for instance in winInstances:
>             instance.ResetColorizer()
>             instance.ResetFont()
>             instance.set_notabs_indentwidth ()
>             instance.ApplyKeybindings()
>             instance.reset_help_menu_entries()
>             instance.text.configure(insertbackground= cursor_color)
>

SourceForge patch
1725576<https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=305470&aid=1725576&group_id=5470>
.

- Tal
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From taleinat at gmail.com  Fri May 25 16:04:23 2007
From: taleinat at gmail.com (Tal Einat)
Date: Fri, 25 May 2007 17:04:23 +0300
Subject: [Idle-dev] Dealing with a few feature requests
In-Reply-To: <7afdee2f0705250237w58aa43adkce86e64f2016fba8@mail.gmail.com>
References: <7afdee2f0705241234p2dcfd0c1s7266d461fbb3a221@mail.gmail.com>
	<34913.165.106.10.226.1180036743.squirrel@webmail.brynmawr.edu>
	<7afdee2f0705250237w58aa43adkce86e64f2016fba8@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7afdee2f0705250704j6062333et432716a9e5557350@mail.gmail.com>

On 5/25/07, Tal Einat <taleinat at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On 5/24/07, Douglas S. Blank <dblank at brynmawr.edu> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Some other suggestions:
> >
> > 1) Make the default color syntax formatter default to python before
> > saving
> > an unnamed buffer. Most people use IDLE for editing Python files, so
> > that
> > seems reasonable. Of course, saving the file in another format would
> > still
> > change the formatter.
>
>
> Sounds reasonable to me as well. I believe this has already been asked for
> in the past, I'll have to look it up.
>

This is already implemented in IDLE, and was committed to the SVN in
revision 38991 back in 2005. Surely IDLE 1.2 (the version shipped with
Python2.5) does this. Which version of IDLE are you using?
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From dblank at brynmawr.edu  Fri May 25 16:19:40 2007
From: dblank at brynmawr.edu (Douglas S. Blank)
Date: Fri, 25 May 2007 10:19:40 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Idle-dev] Dealing with a few feature requests
In-Reply-To: <7afdee2f0705250704j6062333et432716a9e5557350@mail.gmail.com>
References: <7afdee2f0705241234p2dcfd0c1s7266d461fbb3a221@mail.gmail.com> 
	<34913.165.106.10.226.1180036743.squirrel@webmail.brynmawr.edu> 
	<7afdee2f0705250237w58aa43adkce86e64f2016fba8@mail.gmail.com>
	<7afdee2f0705250704j6062333et432716a9e5557350@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3945.165.106.241.223.1180102780.squirrel@webmail.brynmawr.edu>

On Fri, May 25, 2007 10:04 am, Tal Einat said:
> On 5/25/07, Tal Einat <taleinat at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> On 5/24/07, Douglas S. Blank <dblank at brynmawr.edu> wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> > Some other suggestions:
>> >
>> > 1) Make the default color syntax formatter default to python before
>> > saving
>> > an unnamed buffer. Most people use IDLE for editing Python files, so
>> > that
>> > seems reasonable. Of course, saving the file in another format would
>> > still
>> > change the formatter.
>>
>>
>> Sounds reasonable to me as well. I believe this has already been asked
>> for
>> in the past, I'll have to look it up.
>>
>
> This is already implemented in IDLE, and was committed to the SVN in
> revision 38991 back in 2005. Surely IDLE 1.2 (the version shipped with
> Python2.5) does this. Which version of IDLE are you using?

Thanks for the info. Because not all of the Python libraries we depend on
have been brought up-to-date on Windows, we had been stuck with Python
2.4. I tried to pull out the latest idlelib from Python2.5 and put it in
2.4, but it utilizes Python2.5 functionality. I didn't spend a lot of time
on that, but it would be great if idle was a little more backwards
compatible. I wonder how hard it would be to make it 2.4/2.5 agnostic?

-Doug

-- 
Douglas S. Blank
Associate Professor, Bryn Mawr College
http://cs.brynmawr.edu/~dblank/
Office: 610 526 6501


From taleinat at gmail.com  Fri May 25 16:45:52 2007
From: taleinat at gmail.com (Tal Einat)
Date: Fri, 25 May 2007 17:45:52 +0300
Subject: [Idle-dev] Dealing with a few feature requests
In-Reply-To: <3945.165.106.241.223.1180102780.squirrel@webmail.brynmawr.edu>
References: <7afdee2f0705241234p2dcfd0c1s7266d461fbb3a221@mail.gmail.com>
	<34913.165.106.10.226.1180036743.squirrel@webmail.brynmawr.edu>
	<7afdee2f0705250237w58aa43adkce86e64f2016fba8@mail.gmail.com>
	<7afdee2f0705250704j6062333et432716a9e5557350@mail.gmail.com>
	<3945.165.106.241.223.1180102780.squirrel@webmail.brynmawr.edu>
Message-ID: <7afdee2f0705250745s7e5a21d3k48ee8e27454e6a4c@mail.gmail.com>

On 5/25/07, Douglas S. Blank <dblank at brynmawr.edu> wrote:
>
> On Fri, May 25, 2007 10:04 am, Tal Einat said:
> > On 5/25/07, Tal Einat <taleinat at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> On 5/24/07, Douglas S. Blank <dblank at brynmawr.edu> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Some other suggestions:
> >> >
> >> > 1) Make the default color syntax formatter default to python before
> >> > saving
> >> > an unnamed buffer. Most people use IDLE for editing Python files, so
> >> > that
> >> > seems reasonable. Of course, saving the file in another format would
> >> > still
> >> > change the formatter.
> >>
> >>
> >> Sounds reasonable to me as well. I believe this has already been asked
> >> for
> >> in the past, I'll have to look it up.
> >>
> >
> > This is already implemented in IDLE, and was committed to the SVN in
> > revision 38991 back in 2005. Surely IDLE 1.2 (the version shipped with
> > Python2.5) does this. Which version of IDLE are you using?
>
> Thanks for the info. Because not all of the Python libraries we depend on
> have been brought up-to-date on Windows, we had been stuck with Python
> 2.4. I tried to pull out the latest idlelib from Python2.5 and put it in
> 2.4, but it utilizes Python2.5 functionality. I didn't spend a lot of time
> on that, but it would be great if idle was a little more backwards
> compatible. I wonder how hard it would be to make it 2.4/2.5 agnostic?


Not hard at all. I actually have a working version of IDLE which is
backwards compatible all the way back to Python2.2. But this my development
version, with all sorts of new features. It is stable though, I use it
daily, and it is in use by about ten of my friends. I'd gladly send you a
copy.

IDLE isn't currently be kept backwards compatible because it is developed as
an integral part of CPython. There are a few stdlib modules which are kept
backward compatible (email and compiler IIRC), but IDLE is not,
unfortunately.

The changes required are small, and a few #ifdefs (or equivalent) in the
code could make backwards compatibility simple. It would be hard to convince
the guys who build CPython to adopt this, though.

- Tal
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From denis.lorrain at cnsmd-lyon.fr  Fri May 25 18:05:19 2007
From: denis.lorrain at cnsmd-lyon.fr (Denis Lorrain)
Date: Fri, 25 May 2007 18:05:19 +0200
Subject: [Idle-dev] Mac OS X implementation problem
Message-ID: <1180109119.4657093fe292d@webmail.cnsm-lyon.fr>


Hello to all,

   An implementation problem has appeared on my Mac PowerBook G4
with French Mac OS X 10.4.9. I have used Python IDLE.app, and,
since then, my MCL 5.1 (Macintosh Common LISP) environment is
not functioning properly.
   I'm not a sophisticated user of Python, and used to open
PythonIDE for my ordinary limited usage. In fact, I've launched
IDLE.app rather inadvertently!

Symptoms:
- a double click on the MCL 5.1 icon launches the Macintosh
  Script Editor, which protests not finding a dictionary, and then
  opens a gibberish window bearing the MCL 5.1 name and icon
  (cf. attached file ScriptEd.jpg)
- a <ctrl>-click on the MCL 5.1 application shows it is set to be
  opened by IDLE.app by default! However, it launches the Script
  Editor

Before reinstallation of MCL 5.1:
- the only way to launch MCL 5.1 was to double-click on a MCL 5.1
  document

After reinstalling MCL 5.1 from the CD:
- the above symptoms remain
- MOREOVER, all my MCL documents are NOW linked to MCL 5.0 (zero):
  the latter is launched when I double-click on any MCL document,
  whereas 5.1 (one) was correctly launched BEFORE reinstallation
  of 5.1

I have tried without result to remove some user preference files
in ~/Library/Preferences:
- com.digitool.MCL5.0b4.plist
- com.digitool.MCL5.1b1.plist
- MCL 5.0.plist

The problem is linked to only one user (myself) since another
user, on the same Mac, does not have the problems: MCL 5.1 is
functioning absolutely normally for him.

=> Python IDLE has boggled some file(s) in my personal environment.
Does anybody know how to fix this?

Many thanks for your attention,

Sincerely,

   DLO

--
Denis Lorrain
SONVS - CNSMD de Lyon
3, Quai Chauveau / C.P. 120
69266 Lyon Cedex 09
France
==
** M?l: denis.lorrain at cnsmd-lyon.fr **
** Fax: +33/(0)4-72-19-26-00 **
T?l: +33/(0)4-72-19-26-26 / +33/(0)4-72-19-26-23
http://www.cnsmd-lyon.fr
==
** De pr?f?rence/Preferably
--

----------------------------------------------------------------
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From taleinat at gmail.com  Fri May 25 18:31:24 2007
From: taleinat at gmail.com (Tal Einat)
Date: Fri, 25 May 2007 19:31:24 +0300
Subject: [Idle-dev] Mac OS X implementation problem
In-Reply-To: <1180109119.4657093fe292d@webmail.cnsm-lyon.fr>
References: <1180109119.4657093fe292d@webmail.cnsm-lyon.fr>
Message-ID: <7afdee2f0705250931k51dba9b4uebccc8677324b93c@mail.gmail.com>

On 5/25/07, Denis Lorrain <denis.lorrain at cnsmd-lyon.fr> wrote:
>
>
> Hello to all,
>
>    An implementation problem has appeared on my Mac PowerBook G4
> with French Mac OS X 10.4.9. I have used Python IDLE.app, and,
> since then, my MCL 5.1 (Macintosh Common LISP) environment is
> not functioning properly.
>    I'm not a sophisticated user of Python, and used to open
> PythonIDE for my ordinary limited usage. In fact, I've launched
> IDLE.app rather inadvertently!
>
> Symptoms:
> - a double click on the MCL 5.1 icon launches the Macintosh
>   Script Editor, which protests not finding a dictionary, and then
>   opens a gibberish window bearing the MCL 5.1 name and icon
>   (cf. attached file ScriptEd.jpg)
> - a <ctrl>-click on the MCL 5.1 application shows it is set to be
>   opened by IDLE.app by default! However, it launches the Script
>   Editor


[snip]

This is very strange. IDLE doesn't do anything sophisticated to a user's
environment AFAIK. And running it certainly doesn't change file
associations. Perhaps this is something with the OSX Python installer? Or an
OSX bug?

IDLE only uses a few files which are specific to idle, and saved under an
.idlerc directory, which is created when IDLE is first run. Perhaps the
creation of this directory somehow corrupted something, but I fail to
imagine how this could be.

I don't use Mac though, so I can't really help you out...

- Tal
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From dblank at brynmawr.edu  Fri May 25 21:11:06 2007
From: dblank at brynmawr.edu (Douglas S. Blank)
Date: Fri, 25 May 2007 15:11:06 -0400
Subject: [Idle-dev] Dealing with a few feature requests
In-Reply-To: <7afdee2f0705250745s7e5a21d3k48ee8e27454e6a4c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <7afdee2f0705241234p2dcfd0c1s7266d461fbb3a221@mail.gmail.com>	
	<34913.165.106.10.226.1180036743.squirrel@webmail.brynmawr.edu>	
	<7afdee2f0705250237w58aa43adkce86e64f2016fba8@mail.gmail.com>	
	<7afdee2f0705250704j6062333et432716a9e5557350@mail.gmail.com>	
	<3945.165.106.241.223.1180102780.squirrel@webmail.brynmawr.edu>
	<7afdee2f0705250745s7e5a21d3k48ee8e27454e6a4c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <465734CA.1070501@brynmawr.edu>

Tal Einat wrote:
 >> Doug wrote:
>> I wonder how hard it would be to make it 2.4/2.5 agnostic? 
> 
> 
> Not hard at all. I actually have a working version of IDLE which is 
> backwards compatible all the way back to Python2.2. But this my 
> development version, with all sorts of new features. It is stable 
> though, I use it daily, and it is in use by about ten of my friends. I'd 
> gladly send you a copy.

Yes, please. Thanks!

> IDLE isn't currently be kept backwards compatible because it is 
> developed as an integral part of CPython. There are a few stdlib modules 
> which are kept backward compatible (email and compiler IIRC), but IDLE 
> is not, unfortunately.
> 
> The changes required are small, and a few #ifdefs (or equivalent) in the 
> code could make backwards compatibility simple. It would be hard to 
> convince the guys who build CPython to adopt this, though.

That's too bad because it makes all of the fixes applicable to many more 
users than those using the latest Python.

Another problem that we wrestle with is handling the current Python 
path. Am I wrong or does one has to go through some work in order to be 
able to "import myfile" where myfile.py might be in an arbitrary place.

One idea: if you open a file in some directory, that directory might be 
appended to the sys.path.

FYI: we had to hack our own IDLE start program because we needed to:

1) Kill other IDLE processes (and their children) because sometimes 
students close IDLE in a harsh manner that leaves the child process 
running, which prevents us from restarting the serial connection to the 
robot.

2) Wrap the PyShell.PyShell.cancel_callback code so that we can send a 
command to stop the robot whenever a CONTROL+C is encountered.

3) Have the option of running some Python code automatically when we 
start (from a file called "mystart.py", if it exists).

I mention these because someone may have a better solution for us, or 
maybe there is something one can put in the idle startup code (or API) 
to make this more general and so we don't have to add our own "idle" 
start program. I've included that program below.

-Doug

> - Tal

#! /usr/bin/env python

from idlelib import PyShell
import sys, os
if os.name in ['nt', 'dos', 'os2'] :
     pid = os.getpid()
     os.system("""taskkill /F /FI "PID ne %d" /IM pythonw.exe /T """ % pid)
     # kill force processes named pythonw.exe
#sys.argv = [sys.argv[0]] + ['-n']
try:
     commands = open("mystart.py", "r").readlines()
except:
     #commands = ["from myro import *\n"] # add commands right here
     # this causes issues with scope
     commands = []
command = ""
for c in commands:
     print ">>>", c,
     command += c
if command != "":
     sys.argv.append("-c")
     sys.argv.append(command)
del command
del commands
del sys
old_cancel_callback = PyShell.PyShell.cancel_callback
def cancel_callback(self, event=None):
     retval = old_cancel_callback(self, event)
     #PyShell.flist.pyshell.interp.runcode(code)
     code = """if "stop" in dir(): stop()"""
     try:
         PyShell.flist.pyshell.interp.rpcclt.asyncqueue("exec", "runcode",
                                                        (code,), {})
     except:
         pass
     return retval
PyShell.PyShell.cancel_callback = cancel_callback
PyShell.main()


From taleinat at gmail.com  Fri May 25 22:44:06 2007
From: taleinat at gmail.com (Tal Einat)
Date: Fri, 25 May 2007 23:44:06 +0300
Subject: [Idle-dev] Dealing with a few feature requests
In-Reply-To: <465734CA.1070501@brynmawr.edu>
References: <7afdee2f0705241234p2dcfd0c1s7266d461fbb3a221@mail.gmail.com>
	<34913.165.106.10.226.1180036743.squirrel@webmail.brynmawr.edu>
	<7afdee2f0705250237w58aa43adkce86e64f2016fba8@mail.gmail.com>
	<7afdee2f0705250704j6062333et432716a9e5557350@mail.gmail.com>
	<3945.165.106.241.223.1180102780.squirrel@webmail.brynmawr.edu>
	<7afdee2f0705250745s7e5a21d3k48ee8e27454e6a4c@mail.gmail.com>
	<465734CA.1070501@brynmawr.edu>
Message-ID: <7afdee2f0705251344y34a1343ct82765f4e6f04d3d0@mail.gmail.com>

On 5/25/07, Douglas S. Blank <dblank at brynmawr.edu> wrote:
>
> Another problem that we wrestle with is handling the current Python
> path. Am I wrong or does one has to go through some work in order to be
> able to "import myfile" where myfile.py might be in an arbitrary place.


If it's in an arbitrary place, yes. But this is when you usually use
execfile().

One idea: if you open a file in some directory, that directory might be
> appended to the sys.path.


The directory from which python (or in this case, IDLE) is run from is added
to sys.path. And if you use "Run Module" from IDLE, the file is executed in
the shell.

Do you need something more than this?

FYI: we had to hack our own IDLE start program because we needed to:
>
> 1) Kill other IDLE processes (and their children) because sometimes
> students close IDLE in a harsh manner that leaves the child process
> running, which prevents us from restarting the serial connection to the
> robot.


Well, you -could- run IDLE without a subprocess (-n). What this would
achieve is that killing IDLE would leave no zombie process. But this too
seems like an ugly solution. Sorry, I don't have a better idea for you.

2) Wrap the PyShell.PyShell.cancel_callback code so that we can send a
> command to stop the robot whenever a CONTROL+C is encountered.


Sounds like a good solution to me!

3) Have the option of running some Python code automatically when we
> start (from a file called "mystart.py", if it exists).


This is the standard Python way to do it: 2.2.4 The Interactive
Startup File<http://docs.python.org/tut/node4.html#SECTION004240000000000000000><http://docs.python.org/tut/node4.html#SECTION004240000000000000000>

In IDLE, run IDLE with the -s flag to have the startup file run in the shell
before anything else. Just set the PYTHONSTARTUP or IDLESTARTUP environment
variable to the file which should be run.
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From ronaldoussoren at mac.com  Sat May 26 06:38:39 2007
From: ronaldoussoren at mac.com (Ronald Oussoren)
Date: Fri, 25 May 2007 21:38:39 -0700
Subject: [Idle-dev] Mac OS X implementation problem
In-Reply-To: <1180109119.4657093fe292d@webmail.cnsm-lyon.fr>
References: <1180109119.4657093fe292d@webmail.cnsm-lyon.fr>
Message-ID: <8F475FB9-0112-1000-B4EA-5A2C17362DDA-Webmail-10025@mac.com>

 
On Friday, May 25, 2007, at 06:20PM, "Denis Lorrain" <denis.lorrain at cnsmd-lyon.fr> wrote:
>
>Hello to all,
>
>   An implementation problem has appeared on my Mac PowerBook G4
>with French Mac OS X 10.4.9. I have used Python IDLE.app, and,
>since then, my MCL 5.1 (Macintosh Common LISP) environment is
>not functioning properly.
>   I'm not a sophisticated user of Python, and used to open
>PythonIDE for my ordinary limited usage. In fact, I've launched
>IDLE.app rather inadvertently!

Which version of Python do you use?

As Tal Einat also noted IDLE doesn't do anything special to your system. It does create a folder named ".idlerc" in your home directory and IDLE is associated with .py files.

BTW. To change the file associations back to MCL 5.1: open the "Get Info" pane for one of the files. One of the sections in this pane is named "Open with:" in the English version of OSX and can be used to change the application that's used to open this file. Use the combobox to reselect MCL 5.1 as the program to open the file and use the button (labeled "change all..." in the English version) in the "Open with..." section to change the file association for all files with this suffix.

And finally: is MCL the program distributed by http://www.digitool.com?

Ronald


From taleinat at gmail.com  Sat May 26 14:13:51 2007
From: taleinat at gmail.com (Tal Einat)
Date: Sat, 26 May 2007 15:13:51 +0300
Subject: [Idle-dev] Dealing with a few feature requests
In-Reply-To: <7afdee2f0705241234p2dcfd0c1s7266d461fbb3a221@mail.gmail.com>
References: <7afdee2f0705241234p2dcfd0c1s7266d461fbb3a221@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7afdee2f0705260513p5d41710ep2c91bd09097c6d41@mail.gmail.com>

On 5/24/07, Tal Einat <taleinat at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> A few requests that have come up, and I want to hear some comments on
> them:
>
> * Ctrl+Right behavior: It as been suggested that pressing Ctrl+Right
> should jump to the next word ending, instead of the next word beginning like
> it currently does. There is currently no way to get to the end of a word
> with the keyboard except to use the arrow keys repeatedly. It is also
> non-intuitive to some users.
>
> * Cursor color change: For changes to the cursor's color to take effect,
> IDLE must be restarted. This is a known issue with Tk's Text widget, so I
> don't see how we could work around this... Still, we could have a popup
> message appear after a change to the cursor color in the config dialog,
> informing the user of this. I've seen several bug reports on this already,
> and have heard by word of mouth that this has frustrated several more
> people.
>
> * Tabbed pages - This is the #1 feature request right now. I know several
> people who don't use IDLE just because of the lack of tabbed pages. Is
> anyone willing to help me work on this? I have done initial work (creating a
> solid TabbedPages widget), what's left is mostly hacking IDLE's internals to
> use the TabbedPages widget instead of opening new windows.
>
> - Tal
>


Ok, I'll try to summarize the responses until now:

* Cursor change - I figured out it's an IDLE bug, wrote up a fix, and sent a
patch to SF.

* Ctrl+Right behavior - It seems that the opinions are divided: Some (Micael
Foord, Alan Gauld) say that it should be as it is, because this is the
standard in most IDEs, text editors and word processors. Others (Adam
Bachman, Douglas S. Blank) prefer to change the behavior (skip to next word
end instead of next word start) because it's more practical. IMO unless
someone comes up with a compelling reason to change this, or writes up a
patch which makes this behavior user-configurable (and keeps the current
behavior as the default), this isn't going to happen.

* Tabbed pages - As usual, everyone wants this, but (almost) nobody wants to
do it. I can't imagine this happening any time soon unless:
1) Someone volunteers to do this, or at least help out. Douglas, you said
you'd be willing to help - to what extent?
2) Some money is donated to the cause, in which case I'd be willing to do
this. It's too big a project for me to take up just for fun these days.
3) This becomes a Google SoC (Summer of Code) project, or part of one.

I would really like to have Tabbed Pages in IDLE, and I know I'm not alone!
Please help this become a reality.

- Tal
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From ronaldoussoren at mac.com  Sat May 26 17:39:23 2007
From: ronaldoussoren at mac.com (Ronald Oussoren)
Date: Sat, 26 May 2007 17:39:23 +0200
Subject: [Idle-dev] Dealing with a few feature requests
In-Reply-To: <7afdee2f0705260513p5d41710ep2c91bd09097c6d41@mail.gmail.com>
References: <7afdee2f0705241234p2dcfd0c1s7266d461fbb3a221@mail.gmail.com>
	<7afdee2f0705260513p5d41710ep2c91bd09097c6d41@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <594330DE-F668-4826-A88A-4631D82AB943@mac.com>


On 26 May, 2007, at 14:13, Tal Einat wrote:
>
>
> * Tabbed pages - As usual, everyone wants this, but (almost) nobody  
> wants to do it. I can't imagine this happening any time soon unless:
> 1) Someone volunteers to do this, or at least help out. Douglas,  
> you said you'd be willing to help - to what extent?
> 2) Some money is donated to the cause, in which case I'd be willing  
> to do this. It's too big a project for me to take up just for fun  
> these days.
> 3) This becomes a Google SoC (Summer of Code) project, or part of one.
>
> I would really like to have Tabbed Pages in IDLE, and I know I'm  
> not alone! Please help this become a reality.

One (rather roundabout) way to move towards this would be to port  
tkinter and IDLE to Tile (http://tktable.sourceforge.net/tile), which  
as an additional bonus would give IDLE a L&F that better integrates  
with the native L&F.

This would be a pretty large project though, and I'm not at all  
interested in doing this :-)


Ronald

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From dblank at brynmawr.edu  Sat May 26 17:58:59 2007
From: dblank at brynmawr.edu (Douglas S. Blank)
Date: Sat, 26 May 2007 11:58:59 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Idle-dev] Dealing with a few feature requests
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	<7afdee2f0705260513p5d41710ep2c91bd09097c6d41@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <12086.76.98.12.59.1180195139.squirrel@webmail.brynmawr.edu>

On Sat, May 26, 2007 8:13 am, Tal Einat said:

>> * Tabbed pages - This is the #1 feature request right now. I know
>> several
>> people who don't use IDLE just because of the lack of tabbed pages. Is
>> anyone willing to help me work on this? I have done initial work
>> (creating a
>> solid TabbedPages widget), what's left is mostly hacking IDLE's
>> internals to
>> use the TabbedPages widget instead of opening new windows.

[snip]

> * Tabbed pages - As usual, everyone wants this, but (almost) nobody wants
> to
> do it. I can't imagine this happening any time soon unless:
> 1) Someone volunteers to do this, or at least help out. Douglas, you said
> you'd be willing to help - to what extent?
> 2) Some money is donated to the cause, in which case I'd be willing to do
> this. It's too big a project for me to take up just for fun these days.
> 3) This becomes a Google SoC (Summer of Code) project, or part of one.
>
> I would really like to have Tabbed Pages in IDLE, and I know I'm not
> alone!
> Please help this become a reality.

For me, this would be useful to have at the start of the next semester
(August 2007)--- too soon for the next SoC. I don't have funding to
provide for it, but do have some time and energy to help.

To that end, I've started a wiki page:

http://wiki.roboteducation.org/TabbedIDLE

Feel free to use that as it is, or if there is a more appropriate place,
move it, or ignore it. I have a CVS repository, too, if you'd like to use
that. (Or point me to installation info on another if you would like.)

One meta point for me: I don't really mind if this gets adopted
immediately (or at all) into the standard IDLE distribution. That would be
great, but not necessary for me.

-Doug

> - Tal