From dmstoner at utmb.edu  Wed Jul 18 21:54:48 2007
From: dmstoner at utmb.edu (David M. Stoner)
Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2007 14:54:48 -0500
Subject: [Idle-dev] IDLE bug seen while using BeautifulSoup.py
Message-ID: <469E7008.30704@utmb.edu>

I'm not sure if this is the place to submit bug reports.

I'm running IDLE 1.1.1 with Python 2.4.1 on Windows XP.  It generally 
works well.  (Using 2.4 because, last I checked, that was the latest I 
could use with PyGTK+.)

I'm running a simple application testing  Beautiful Soup  
http://www.crummy.com/software/BeautifulSoup/

Source attached.

I get the following error message:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "C:\a1\bin\Python24\dms\HTML_Parse\HTML_Parse.py", line 31, in 
-toplevel-
    print soup3.body.contents[0]
TypeError: 'NoneType' object is not callable



At first I assumed it was a bug in BeautifulSoup,  but it turns out the 
script runs fine straight from the command line and under IPython, so it 
appears IDLE is at fault.

Apologies if this is an old bug fixed in 2.5.

David Stoner
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From taleinat at gmail.com  Thu Jul 19 17:07:15 2007
From: taleinat at gmail.com (Tal Einat)
Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2007 18:07:15 +0300
Subject: [Idle-dev] IDLE bug seen while using BeautifulSoup.py
In-Reply-To: <469E7008.30704@utmb.edu>
References: <469E7008.30704@utmb.edu>
Message-ID: <7afdee2f0707190807l5483de1dgbf01fedb367919bf@mail.gmail.com>

On 7/18/07, David M. Stoner <dmstoner at utmb.edu> wrote:
>
> I'm not sure if this is the place to submit bug reports.
>
> I'm running IDLE 1.1.1 with Python 2.4.1 on Windows XP.  It generally
> works well.  (Using 2.4 because, last I checked, that was the latest I
> could use with PyGTK+.)
>
> I'm running a simple application testing  Beautiful Soup
> http://www.crummy.com/software/BeautifulSoup/
>
> Source attached.
>
> I get the following error message:
>
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "C:\a1\bin\Python24\dms\HTML_Parse\HTML_Parse.py", line 31, in
> -toplevel-
>     print soup3.body.contents[0]
> TypeError: 'NoneType' object is not callable
>
>
>
> At first I assumed it was a bug in BeautifulSoup,  but it turns out the
> script runs fine straight from the command line and under IPython, so it
> appears IDLE is at fault.
>
> Apologies if this is an old bug fixed in 2.5.
>
I'm getting a "maximum recursion limit reached" exception on my IDLE
1.2, Python 2.5, WinXP.

Congrats, you've found a bug in IDLE! Thank you for reporting it :)

The problem is that soup3.body.contents[0] cannot be pickled, even
though it is an instance of unicode. Try it - calling
pickle.dumps(soup3.body.contents[0]) in the command-line interpreter
(after execfile-ing your script) causes infinite recursion and finally
the above mentioned exception.

This is very bad behavior on behalf of BeautifulSoup! I'll write them
an angry memo ;). But IDLE surely should have a try/except block
around the pickling code, and on failure fall back to whatever it does
for un-pickle-able objects.

I'll submit a bug report on SourceForge, and talk with the
BeautifulSoup guys while I'm at it.

Thanks again for letting us know about this!
- Tal

P.S. I think you meant to call the renderContents method and print the
returned value, instead of printing the method itself.

From paul at mustagh.com  Fri Jul 20 19:48:40 2007
From: paul at mustagh.com (Paul Guse)
Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2007 11:48:40 -0600
Subject: [Idle-dev] open idle edit window  only?
Message-ID: <005c01c7caf6$3605bde0$6501a8c0@uberchufties>

Is there a way to open just the edit window (without the run window) from the commandline?
I can go into the idle configuration and change the "At Startup" option to "Open Edit Window" and this does what I'm looking for, but I need to be able to do this without manually going into idle and changing it. 
I need to be able to control this through the commandline (or equivalent) without making the user set up the options manually.
Any suggestions?
Thanks.
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From taleinat at gmail.com  Fri Jul 20 22:59:25 2007
From: taleinat at gmail.com (Tal Einat)
Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2007 23:59:25 +0300
Subject: [Idle-dev] open idle edit window only?
In-Reply-To: <005c01c7caf6$3605bde0$6501a8c0@uberchufties>
References: <005c01c7caf6$3605bde0$6501a8c0@uberchufties>
Message-ID: <7afdee2f0707201359y52327c07gc27e85dbbf836f6a@mail.gmail.com>

On 7/20/07, Paul Guse <paul at mustagh.com> wrote:
>
>
> Is there a way to open just the edit window (without the run window) from
> the commandline?
> I can go into the idle configuration and change the "At Startup" option to
> "Open Edit Window" and this does what I'm looking for, but I need to be able
> to do this without manually going into idle and changing it.
> I need to be able to control this through the commandline (or equivalent)
> without making the user set up the options manually.
> Any suggestions?
> Thanks.

Unfortunately, no. As long as the "At Startup" option in the
configuration dialog is set to "Open Shell Window", a shell window
will always be opened.

I agree that there should be a command-line option to explicitly not
open a shell window. I'll post a feature request to SourceForge.

If you want this quickly, I can work up a quick patch for you.

- Tal

From paul at mustagh.com  Fri Jul 20 23:11:13 2007
From: paul at mustagh.com (Paul Guse)
Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2007 15:11:13 -0600
Subject: [Idle-dev] open idle edit window only?
References: <005c01c7caf6$3605bde0$6501a8c0@uberchufties>
	<7afdee2f0707201359y52327c07gc27e85dbbf836f6a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <00c401c7cb12$821061b0$6501a8c0@uberchufties>

Thanks for the reply.
If a patch is relatively straight forward I would be definitely interested. 
(time is fairly important).
I was thinking of hacking it by changing the config file before I ran idle, 
but something more elegant would be great :)
Paul


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Tal Einat" <taleinat at gmail.com>
To: "Paul Guse" <paul at mustagh.com>
Cc: <idle-dev at python.org>
Sent: Friday, July 20, 2007 2:59 PM
Subject: Re: [Idle-dev] open idle edit window only?


> On 7/20/07, Paul Guse <paul at mustagh.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Is there a way to open just the edit window (without the run window) from
>> the commandline?
>> I can go into the idle configuration and change the "At Startup" option 
>> to
>> "Open Edit Window" and this does what I'm looking for, but I need to be 
>> able
>> to do this without manually going into idle and changing it.
>> I need to be able to control this through the commandline (or equivalent)
>> without making the user set up the options manually.
>> Any suggestions?
>> Thanks.
>
> Unfortunately, no. As long as the "At Startup" option in the
> configuration dialog is set to "Open Shell Window", a shell window
> will always be opened.
>
> I agree that there should be a command-line option to explicitly not
> open a shell window. I'll post a feature request to SourceForge.
>
> If you want this quickly, I can work up a quick patch for you.
>
> - Tal
> 


From dblank at brynmawr.edu  Fri Jul 20 22:58:51 2007
From: dblank at brynmawr.edu (Douglas S. Blank)
Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2007 16:58:51 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Idle-dev] open idle edit window  only?
In-Reply-To: <005c01c7caf6$3605bde0$6501a8c0@uberchufties>
References: <005c01c7caf6$3605bde0$6501a8c0@uberchufties>
Message-ID: <1126.165.106.10.167.1184965131.squirrel@webmail.brynmawr.edu>

On Fri, July 20, 2007 1:48 pm, Paul Guse said:
> Is there a way to open just the edit window (without the run window) from
> the commandline?
> I can go into the idle configuration and change the "At Startup" option to
> "Open Edit Window" and this does what I'm looking for, but I need to be
> able to do this without manually going into idle and changing it.
> I need to be able to control this through the commandline (or equivalent)
> without making the user set up the options manually.

I don't know how to do what you ask, but I will second the motion that
this is an annoyance. It seems that there should be a third option that
would open the edit window, given a file to edit, or open the interpreter
otherwise. Of course, this is moot if we had the ability to have a single
window that was split with editor and interpreter.

$.02

-Doug

> Any suggestions?
> Thanks.
> _______________________________________________
> IDLE-dev mailing list
> IDLE-dev at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/idle-dev
>


-- 
Douglas S. Blank
Associate Professor, Bryn Mawr College
http://cs.brynmawr.edu/~dblank/
Office: 610 526 6501


From taleinat at gmail.com  Sat Jul 21 00:35:54 2007
From: taleinat at gmail.com (Tal Einat)
Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2007 01:35:54 +0300
Subject: [Idle-dev] open idle edit window only?
In-Reply-To: <00c401c7cb12$821061b0$6501a8c0@uberchufties>
References: <005c01c7caf6$3605bde0$6501a8c0@uberchufties>
	<7afdee2f0707201359y52327c07gc27e85dbbf836f6a@mail.gmail.com>
	<00c401c7cb12$821061b0$6501a8c0@uberchufties>
Message-ID: <7afdee2f0707201535j261b9e98h3bba86434f79b0e9@mail.gmail.com>

On 7/21/07, Paul Guse <paul at mustagh.com> wrote:
> Thanks for the reply.
> If a patch is relatively straight forward I would be definitely interested.
> (time is fairly important).
> I was thinking of hacking it by changing the config file before I ran idle,
> but something more elegant would be great :)
> Paul
>
This is actually very simple.

In Lib\idlelib\PyShell.py, replace this line:
    enable_shell = enable_shell or not edit_start

With this:
    enable_shell = enable_shell or not enable_edit

That's it. Now, opening a file (or files) with the -e flag should do
what you want.

I think this is actually a bug, this logic makes more sense. And it
seems to me what you want would have been the intended behavior of the
-e flag. I'll check this out a bit more, and hopefully post a patch in
a matter of days.

Thanks for pointing this out - I'd noted this but never really thought
about it. User feedback is priceless :)

I hope this helps... Good luck!
- Tal

From taleinat at gmail.com  Sat Jul 21 00:49:12 2007
From: taleinat at gmail.com (Tal Einat)
Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2007 01:49:12 +0300
Subject: [Idle-dev] open idle edit window only?
In-Reply-To: <1126.165.106.10.167.1184965131.squirrel@webmail.brynmawr.edu>
References: <005c01c7caf6$3605bde0$6501a8c0@uberchufties>
	<1126.165.106.10.167.1184965131.squirrel@webmail.brynmawr.edu>
Message-ID: <7afdee2f0707201549x28cadb0ch1d61be58a627207a@mail.gmail.com>

On 7/20/07, Douglas S. Blank <dblank at brynmawr.edu> wrote:
> On Fri, July 20, 2007 1:48 pm, Paul Guse said:
> > Is there a way to open just the edit window (without the run window) from
> > the commandline?
> > I can go into the idle configuration and change the "At Startup" option to
> > "Open Edit Window" and this does what I'm looking for, but I need to be
> > able to do this without manually going into idle and changing it.
> > I need to be able to control this through the commandline (or equivalent)
> > without making the user set up the options manually.
>
> I don't know how to do what you ask, but I will second the motion that
> this is an annoyance. It seems that there should be a third option that
> would open the edit window, given a file to edit, or open the interpreter
> otherwise. Of course, this is moot if we had the ability to have a single
> window that was split with editor and interpreter.

Your "third option" would seem to be the obvious default behavior, IMO.

I've always wondered at the editor/shell window logic in IDLE. I would
expect IDLE to open a shell window if called without arguments, or an
editor window if called with one or more arguments. A flag to
specifically also open a shell window would suffice to allow opening a
shell window alongside editor window(s). But the config option for
choosing what should be opened initially, which cannot be overridden
from the command line, seems silly. (Especially since opening a
shell/editor window is a very simple action.)

I think we should remove this config option from IDLE and make the
command line options simpler and more intuitive/standard. I feel this
would go well with IDLE's philosophy of being as simple as possible,
avoiding clutter as much as possible. Just as we avoid excessive GUI
elements, we should avoid excessive configuration options.

Any feedback on this would be welcome!

- Tal

From paul at mustagh.com  Sat Jul 21 01:24:52 2007
From: paul at mustagh.com (Paul Guse)
Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2007 17:24:52 -0600
Subject: [Idle-dev] open idle edit window only?
References: <005c01c7caf6$3605bde0$6501a8c0@uberchufties>
	<1126.165.106.10.167.1184965131.squirrel@webmail.brynmawr.edu>
	<7afdee2f0707201549x28cadb0ch1d61be58a627207a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <00ea01c7cb25$2d632810$6501a8c0@uberchufties>

Simplicity is definitely a good way to go.
Looking at the options in Option->Configure idle.. it seems to me that there 
are a couple of options that would be handy to be able to set in the 
commandline.
Fonts/Highlighting/Keys could all be ignored as this is pretty specific to 
each user, but I would make use of the ability to change (in the general 
tab) the Startup Preference, Autosave pref, and possible window size 
(although less likely).
I'm using python as an embedded scripting language and having these options 
would really allow me to tailor idle to my needs. Writing to the config 
files might not be an option if the user does not have permission to do so. 
I could change the config upon installation, but messing with the user's 
settings is always a bit suspect.
Definitely the startup pref is the most importan, I believe.
Paul



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Tal Einat" <taleinat at gmail.com>
To: "Douglas S. Blank" <dblank at brynmawr.edu>
Cc: "Paul Guse" <paul at mustagh.com>; <idle-dev at python.org>
Sent: Friday, July 20, 2007 4:49 PM
Subject: Re: [Idle-dev] open idle edit window only?


> On 7/20/07, Douglas S. Blank <dblank at brynmawr.edu> wrote:
>> On Fri, July 20, 2007 1:48 pm, Paul Guse said:
>> > Is there a way to open just the edit window (without the run window) 
>> > from
>> > the commandline?
>> > I can go into the idle configuration and change the "At Startup" option 
>> > to
>> > "Open Edit Window" and this does what I'm looking for, but I need to be
>> > able to do this without manually going into idle and changing it.
>> > I need to be able to control this through the commandline (or 
>> > equivalent)
>> > without making the user set up the options manually.
>>
>> I don't know how to do what you ask, but I will second the motion that
>> this is an annoyance. It seems that there should be a third option that
>> would open the edit window, given a file to edit, or open the interpreter
>> otherwise. Of course, this is moot if we had the ability to have a single
>> window that was split with editor and interpreter.
>
> Your "third option" would seem to be the obvious default behavior, IMO.
>
> I've always wondered at the editor/shell window logic in IDLE. I would
> expect IDLE to open a shell window if called without arguments, or an
> editor window if called with one or more arguments. A flag to
> specifically also open a shell window would suffice to allow opening a
> shell window alongside editor window(s). But the config option for
> choosing what should be opened initially, which cannot be overridden
> from the command line, seems silly. (Especially since opening a
> shell/editor window is a very simple action.)
>
> I think we should remove this config option from IDLE and make the
> command line options simpler and more intuitive/standard. I feel this
> would go well with IDLE's philosophy of being as simple as possible,
> avoiding clutter as much as possible. Just as we avoid excessive GUI
> elements, we should avoid excessive configuration options.
>
> Any feedback on this would be welcome!
>
> - Tal
> 


From taleinat at gmail.com  Sat Jul 21 01:44:41 2007
From: taleinat at gmail.com (Tal Einat)
Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2007 02:44:41 +0300
Subject: [Idle-dev] open idle edit window only?
In-Reply-To: <00ea01c7cb25$2d632810$6501a8c0@uberchufties>
References: <005c01c7caf6$3605bde0$6501a8c0@uberchufties>
	<1126.165.106.10.167.1184965131.squirrel@webmail.brynmawr.edu>
	<7afdee2f0707201549x28cadb0ch1d61be58a627207a@mail.gmail.com>
	<00ea01c7cb25$2d632810$6501a8c0@uberchufties>
Message-ID: <7afdee2f0707201644v56f5a94eh54fcfd42fd53218e@mail.gmail.com>

On 7/21/07, Paul Guse <paul at mustagh.com> wrote:
> Looking at the options in Option->Configure idle.. it seems to me that there
> are a couple of options that would be handy to be able to set in the
> commandline.
> Fonts/Highlighting/Keys could all be ignored as this is pretty specific to
> each user, but I would make use of the ability to change (in the general
> tab) the Startup Preference, Autosave pref, and possible window size
> (although less likely).
> I'm using python as an embedded scripting language and having these options
> would really allow me to tailor idle to my needs. Writing to the config
> files might not be an option if the user does not have permission to do so.
> I could change the config upon installation, but messing with the user's
> settings is always a bit suspect.
> Definitely the startup pref is the most importan, I believe.
> Paul

That seems like a bit much for my taste... Though I can see this being
useful when using IDLE as an interface for something, where you may
want to avoid bugging users with saving files all of the time.

This is a step in the direction of IDLE as a configurable shell
environment, usable as a generic front-end, which would require it to
be somewhat configurable. I've heard several people thinking in such
directions lately, but I'm afraid there isn't enough development force
behind IDLE to bring it to that point. As I see it, IPython is a
better candidate for such uses, if only because its development is
drastically more active. Though in its current state, its text-only
interface is certainly a major drawback for common users compared to
IDLE.


As for a solution: You could set these in the user configuration in
his .idlerc directory, instead of the global config. Any user should
have write access to this directory. See the beginning of
Lib\idlelib\config-main.def for details.

- Tal

From dblank at brynmawr.edu  Thu Jul 26 04:30:21 2007
From: dblank at brynmawr.edu (Douglas S. Blank)
Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2007 22:30:21 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Idle-dev] IDLE getpass?
Message-ID: <1628.71.59.123.159.1185417021.squirrel@webmail.brynmawr.edu>

Is there an easy way that one can enter a password in IDLE but not have
the characters show (or just show asterisks)? The only way I can think of
is to bind(<KeyPress>) but that seems to be overkill. I'm looking for
something like replacing sys.stdout or some Tkinter function. Any hints
appreciated.

-Doug


-- 
Douglas S. Blank
Associate Professor, Bryn Mawr College
http://cs.brynmawr.edu/~dblank/
Office: 610 526 6501


From taleinat at gmail.com  Thu Jul 26 08:36:42 2007
From: taleinat at gmail.com (Tal Einat)
Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2007 09:36:42 +0300
Subject: [Idle-dev] IDLE getpass?
In-Reply-To: <1628.71.59.123.159.1185417021.squirrel@webmail.brynmawr.edu>
References: <1628.71.59.123.159.1185417021.squirrel@webmail.brynmawr.edu>
Message-ID: <7afdee2f0707252336m14e27b5ep3bc933802f010cc6@mail.gmail.com>

On 7/26/07, Douglas S. Blank <dblank at brynmawr.edu> wrote:
> Is there an easy way that one can enter a password in IDLE but not have
> the characters show (or just show asterisks)? The only way I can think of
> is to bind(<KeyPress>) but that seems to be overkill. I'm looking for
> something like replacing sys.stdout or some Tkinter function. Any hints
> appreciated.

A good starting point would be:

from tkSimpleDialog import askstring
askstring('Enter Password', 'Password: ', show='*')

You'd have to work out a few Tk kinks to get it to work smoothly...
but it works.

- Tal

From dblank at brynmawr.edu  Thu Jul 26 19:59:52 2007
From: dblank at brynmawr.edu (Douglas S. Blank)
Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2007 13:59:52 -0400
Subject: [Idle-dev] IDLE getpass?
In-Reply-To: <7afdee2f0707252336m14e27b5ep3bc933802f010cc6@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1628.71.59.123.159.1185417021.squirrel@webmail.brynmawr.edu>
	<7afdee2f0707252336m14e27b5ep3bc933802f010cc6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <46A8E118.8030101@brynmawr.edu>

Tal Einat wrote:
> On 7/26/07, Douglas S. Blank <dblank at brynmawr.edu> wrote:
>> Is there an easy way that one can enter a password in IDLE but not have
>> the characters show (or just show asterisks)? The only way I can think of
>> is to bind(<KeyPress>) but that seems to be overkill. I'm looking for
>> something like replacing sys.stdout or some Tkinter function. Any hints
>> appreciated.
> 
> A good starting point would be:
> 
> from tkSimpleDialog import askstring
> askstring('Enter Password', 'Password: ', show='*')
> 
> You'd have to work out a few Tk kinks to get it to work smoothly...
> but it works.

Thanks for the pointer. This brings up some additional questions:

1) It looks like that the trick here is to set 
entry.configure(show='*'). Can that be done in the Python Shell in IDLE? 
That is, can one temporarily make all characters that you type in the 
Python Shell be *?

2) How does one get a hold of the PyShell once IDLE has already started? 
(If this is possible, I'd like to know for other reasons besides this one).

3) If I have to open a Tk window, how can I get it to appear on top of 
the IDLE window?

Thanks for any additional hints,

-Doug

> - Tal
> 


From taleinat at gmail.com  Sun Jul 29 23:16:11 2007
From: taleinat at gmail.com (Tal Einat)
Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2007 00:16:11 +0300
Subject: [Idle-dev] IDLE getpass?
In-Reply-To: <46A8E118.8030101@brynmawr.edu>
References: <1628.71.59.123.159.1185417021.squirrel@webmail.brynmawr.edu>
	<7afdee2f0707252336m14e27b5ep3bc933802f010cc6@mail.gmail.com>
	<46A8E118.8030101@brynmawr.edu>
Message-ID: <7afdee2f0707291416u3495ede0v566167e03b11b6b9@mail.gmail.com>

On 7/26/07, Douglas S. Blank <dblank at brynmawr.edu> wrote:
> Tal Einat wrote:
> > On 7/26/07, Douglas S. Blank <dblank at brynmawr.edu> wrote:
> >> Is there an easy way that one can enter a password in IDLE but not have
> >> the characters show (or just show asterisks)? The only way I can think of
> >> is to bind(<KeyPress>) but that seems to be overkill. I'm looking for
> >> something like replacing sys.stdout or some Tkinter function. Any hints
> >> appreciated.
> >
> > A good starting point would be:
> >
> > from tkSimpleDialog import askstring
> > askstring('Enter Password', 'Password: ', show='*')
> >
> > You'd have to work out a few Tk kinks to get it to work smoothly...
> > but it works.
>
> Thanks for the pointer. This brings up some additional questions:
>
> 1) It looks like that the trick here is to set
> entry.configure(show='*'). Can that be done in the Python Shell in IDLE?
> That is, can one temporarily make all characters that you type in the
> Python Shell be *?

Not on the Tk level as you can with Entry widgets. But an IDLE
extension can hook on to the EditorWindow object's 'write' method, and
change it to show an asterisk ('*') instead of any input. You could
write an extension for password entry, which temporarily overrides
this 'write' method, and when the user is done returns the write
method to its original form. You'd have to be a bit careful though,
for instance, make sure the shell is restored if the user hits Ctrl+C.

> 2) How does one get a hold of the PyShell once IDLE has already started?
> (If this is possible, I'd like to know for other reasons besides this one).

Well, that's precisely what extensions get - the EditorWindow object,
which is the PyShell object in the case of the shell window.

> 3) If I have to open a Tk window, how can I get it to appear on top of
> the IDLE window?

IIRC this depends on your window manager. Tk's 'raise' command
('tkraise' in Python's Tkinter, because 'raise' is a Python keyword)
just doesn't work on windows - this is a well known bug. I seem to
recall that the TopLevel widgets' 'wm_deiconify' method has something
to do with it... Try a Google Groups search on this issue + Tk, and
you should find an answer.

> Thanks for any additional hints,
>
> -Doug

Sorry for the unusually delayed reply!
- Tal