From lhotka@jcu.cz Mon Jun 12 11:10:49 2000 From: lhotka@jcu.cz (Ladislav Lhotka) Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 12:10:49 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [Idle-dev] ISO 8859-2: HOW? Message-ID: Hi all, in the IDLE editor, I am not able to enter accented letters from the ISO 8859-2 code table which are not in ISO 8859-1 (letters with carons etc.) even though they work well in emacs and xterm. I suspect this question should be directed to the Tk guys, but perhaps someone here has an idea how to get around this limitation. Regards, Lada -- Ladislav Lhotka University of South Bohemia Branisovska 31 Academic Computer Centre 370 05 Ceske Budejovice tel. x420-38-7772080, fax x420-38-5300348 Czech Republic From jacco.vonk@telstra.com Tue Jun 20 00:58:07 2000 From: jacco.vonk@telstra.com (jacco.vonk) Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 09:58:07 +1000 Subject: [Idle-dev] Making changes to IDLE Message-ID: <394E8076@milo01> To idle-dev, What's the process for suggesting/making changes to the IDLE source? For example, I'd like to fix the (relatively simple) problem where you can't open modules within packages (in EditorWindow.open_module). I downloaded the Python-1.6a2 tarball as apparently IDLE has had a complete overhaul. Does this contain the very latest IDLE source code (idlver says it's 0.6)? Is there some way to nominate a bug/area which I (or anyone else) wish to work on (so that we don't step on each other's toes)? Are there any procedures in place for this, and for the contribution of code to the development of IDLE? Cheers, Jacco Vonk. --------------------------------- Powered by http://www.telstra.com From glyph@twistedmatrix.com Tue Jun 20 01:28:40 2000 From: glyph@twistedmatrix.com (Glyph Lefkowitz) Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 19:28:40 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Idle-dev] Making changes to IDLE In-Reply-To: <394E8076@milo01> Message-ID: On Tue, 20 Jun 2000, jacco.vonk wrote: > To idle-dev, > > What's the process for suggesting/making changes to the IDLE source? > For example, I'd like to fix the (relatively simple) problem where you > can't open modules within packages (in EditorWindow.open_module). I > downloaded the Python-1.6a2 tarball as apparently IDLE has had a > complete overhaul. Does this contain the very latest IDLE source code > (idlver says it's 0.6)? I've already fixed this problem in my copy; as well as a few other niggling bugs with windowmanager interaction. Would you like patches? > Is there some way to nominate a bug/area which I (or anyone else) wish > to work on (so that we don't step on each other's toes)? Are there any > procedures in place for this, and for the contribution of code to the > development of IDLE? I'd really like to know that too. I am slowly but surely forking my personal copy of IDLE away from the mainstream distribution, and I'm sure that I'm duplicating work that someone else will have to do eventually. ______ __ __ _____ _ _ | ____ | \_/ |_____] |_____| |_____| |_____ | | | | @ t w i s t e d m a t r i x . c o m http://www.twistedmatrix.com/~glyph/ From fdrake@acm.org Tue Jun 20 03:10:26 2000 From: fdrake@acm.org (Fred L. Drake, Jr.) Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 22:10:26 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Idle-dev] Making changes to IDLE In-Reply-To: References: <394E8076@milo01> Message-ID: <14670.53906.947797.616489@cj42289-a.reston1.va.home.com> On Tue, 20 Jun 2000, jacco.vonk wrote: > What's the process for suggesting/making changes to the IDLE source? > For example, I'd like to fix the (relatively simple) problem where you > can't open modules within packages (in EditorWindow.open_module). I ... > Is there some way to nominate a bug/area which I (or anyone else) wish > to work on (so that we don't step on each other's toes)? Are there any Glyph Lefkowitz writes: > I'd really like to know that too. I am slowly but surely forking my > personal copy of IDLE away from the mainstream distribution, and I'm sure > that I'm duplicating work that someone else will have to do eventually. Please use this mailing list to discuss patches and directions for further development; that's part of the list charter (implicitly). -Fred -- Fred L. Drake, Jr. BeOpen PythonLabs Team Member From jacco.vonk@telstra.com Wed Jun 21 00:22:06 2000 From: jacco.vonk@telstra.com (jacco.vonk) Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 09:22:06 +1000 Subject: [Idle-dev] Making changes to IDLE Message-ID: <394F90E7@milo01> > > Please use this mailing list to discuss patches and directions for >further development; that's part of the list charter (implicitly). > > > -Fred Ok Fred. I assumed that IDLE being open-source the development of IDLE would be open-source also - ie. the Linux/Linus Torvald's approach of accepting patches and releasing new versions of the code every day (if required). I think IDLE could benefit a lot from this approach, but I suppose it's up to PythonLabs. To Glyph: Could you please post your patches so that I (and anyone else) can make use of them. Cheers, Jacco. --------------------------------- Powered by http://www.telstra.com From mhammond@skippinet.com.au Wed Jun 21 00:41:22 2000 From: mhammond@skippinet.com.au (Mark Hammond) Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 09:41:22 +1000 Subject: [Idle-dev] Making changes to IDLE In-Reply-To: <394F90E7@milo01> Message-ID: > Ok Fred. I assumed that IDLE being open-source the development > of IDLE would be open-source also It is. > - ie. the Linux/Linus Torvald's approach of > accepting > patches and releasing new versions of the code every day (if > required). Im sure Linus doesnt do this alone, and if not for other people standing up to be counted, it would have stopped some time ago. The reality is simply that there were not enough people who a) knew IDLE well enough and b) had checkin permissions to the CVS source tree. The move to BeOpen means that a) that team will have more time to dedicate to Python, including IDLE, and b) that the restrictive CNRI policies on permissions can be lifted. > I think IDLE could benefit a lot from this approach, but I suppose > it's up to PythonLabs. I dont think you are being fair here. I would have thought it obvious that the design-flaw in the 24 hour day was the problem, and not any restrictive policies or intention re IDLE. Of course, this doesnt mean people will actually _like_ all submitted changes - just like Linus - and this will upset some people who will no-doubt start blaming the cabal. There is no cabal. Mark. From jeremy@beopen.com Wed Jun 21 00:45:56 2000 From: jeremy@beopen.com (Jeremy Hylton) Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 19:45:56 -0400 Subject: [Idle-dev] Making changes to IDLE In-Reply-To: <394F90E7@milo01> Message-ID: >Ok Fred. I assumed that IDLE being open-source the development of IDLE would >be open-source also - ie. the Linux/Linus Torvald's approach of accepting >patches and releasing new versions of the code every day (if required). I >think IDLE could benefit a lot from this approach, but I suppose it's up to >PythonLabs. I'm not sure where you get the idea that IDLE isn't an open source development project. We may not be making daily releases of new versions, but the CVS repository is accessible. We also welcome patches. Big patches may take a long time for us to integrate, because we are busy working on Python 1.6. (You may know that Linux kernel releases are similarly delayed with Linus is away or working on other things.) Jeremy From fdrake@beopen.com Wed Jun 21 03:31:12 2000 From: fdrake@beopen.com (Fred L. Drake, Jr.) Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 22:31:12 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Idle-dev] Making changes to IDLE In-Reply-To: <394F90E7@milo01> References: <394F90E7@milo01> Message-ID: <14672.10480.279953.707547@cj42289-a.reston1.va.home.com> jacco.vonk writes: > Ok Fred. I assumed that IDLE being open-source the development of IDLE would > be open-source also - ie. the Linux/Linus Torvald's approach of accepting > patches and releasing new versions of the code every day (if required). I Jacco, I thought that's what I described... if I was unclear, I apologize. IDLE is covered by the Python license, and we're not changing that. Patches posted to the list will be considered for inclusion in future versions. For now, this would require the tedious legalese (see http://www.python.org/patches/ for details), but that's the same as everything else in Python. Now, I don't expect we'll be releasing new versions on a daily basis, but the CVS repository is always available. Python has always had very conservative release policies. On the other hand, we're about to go "beta" with the next version of Python, which will include IDLE as it exists at the time. So this is an excellent time to send patches; this list is simply the right forum for them. If a patch fixes an outright bug, it can also be provided through the bugs database at http://www.python.org/python-bugs/, but feature requests and patches in development can be discussed here, since this is the IDLE developers' forum. If I've confused things further, I apologize; IDLE is indeed open source. If you have any questions about how we deal with patches and releases, please don't hesitate to ask. -Fred -- Fred L. Drake, Jr. BeOpen PythonLabs Team Member From jeremy@beopen.com Wed Jun 21 14:39:16 2000 From: jeremy@beopen.com (Jeremy Hylton) Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 09:39:16 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Idle-dev] Making changes to IDLE In-Reply-To: References: <394F90E7@milo01> Message-ID: <14672.50564.349408.531048@localhost.localdomain> >>>>> "MH" == Mark Hammond writes: MH> Of course, this doesnt mean people will actually _like_ all MH> submitted changes - just like Linus - and this will upset some MH> people who will no-doubt start blaming the cabal. There is no MH> cabal. We really haven't had much time for IDLE since we started the move to PythonLabs. It had to take a back-seat to Python 1.6. That means patches like David Scherer's changes that allow scripts to run in a separate process have been delayed a lot. That patch has been sitting in my INBOX for weeks and weeks waiting for a close review. This is all by way of saying we are happy to accept patches, but big patches may be delayed until after 1.6. Jeremy From dscherer@milliway.kssacct.com Wed Jun 21 18:22:04 2000 From: dscherer@milliway.kssacct.com (David Scherer) Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 17:22:04 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [Idle-dev] Making changes to IDLE In-Reply-To: <14672.50564.349408.531048@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: On Wed, 21 Jun 2000, Jeremy Hylton wrote: > We really haven't had much time for IDLE since we started the move to > PythonLabs. It had to take a back-seat to Python 1.6. That means > patches like David Scherer's changes that allow scripts to run in a > separate process have been delayed a lot. That patch has been sitting > in my INBOX for weeks and weeks waiting for a close review. ... and in the meantime, I think I've made more changes. Here's a suggestion: create a separate sourceforge project for IDLE (or for "idle-fork"), give developer access to everyone who wants it, and sit back to see what happens. That gives everyone who is now working on IDLE a chance to share work, review each others' changes, etc., without requiring much time from the PythonLabs folks. If the result is good, you can declare it "IDLE 0.7" or whatever. If the result is total chaos, you can always ask people to separate out their changes as patches and submit them in the usual way. Dave From dscherer@milliway.kssacct.com Wed Jun 21 18:22:04 2000 From: dscherer@milliway.kssacct.com (David Scherer) Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 17:22:04 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [Idle-dev] Making changes to IDLE In-Reply-To: <14672.50564.349408.531048@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: On Wed, 21 Jun 2000, Jeremy Hylton wrote: > We really haven't had much time for IDLE since we started the move to > PythonLabs. It had to take a back-seat to Python 1.6. That means > patches like David Scherer's changes that allow scripts to run in a > separate process have been delayed a lot. That patch has been sitting > in my INBOX for weeks and weeks waiting for a close review. ... and in the meantime, I think I've made more changes. Here's a suggestion: create a separate sourceforge project for IDLE (or for "idle-fork"), give developer access to everyone who wants it, and sit back to see what happens. That gives everyone who is now working on IDLE a chance to share work, review each others' changes, etc., without requiring much time from the PythonLabs folks. If the result is good, you can declare it "IDLE 0.7" or whatever. If the result is total chaos, you can always ask people to separate out their changes as patches and submit them in the usual way. Dave From mhammond@skippinet.com.au Thu Jun 22 23:53:52 2000 From: mhammond@skippinet.com.au (Mark Hammond) Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 08:53:52 +1000 Subject: [Idle-dev] Making changes to IDLE In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Here's a suggestion: create a separate sourceforge project for IDLE (or > for "idle-fork"), give developer access to everyone who wants it, and sit > back to see what happens. Hey - thats a great idea! It certainly would be an interesting experiment! I guess all you would need here is Guido's blessing, and you could do the rest yourself! Mark. From guido@python.org Fri Jun 23 17:13:22 2000 From: guido@python.org (Guido van Rossum) Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 11:13:22 -0500 Subject: [Idle-dev] Making changes to IDLE In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 23 Jun 2000 08:53:52 +1000." References: Message-ID: <200006231613.LAA02286@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com> > > Here's a suggestion: create a separate sourceforge project for IDLE (or > > for "idle-fork"), give developer access to everyone who wants it, and sit > > back to see what happens. > > Hey - thats a great idea! It certainly would be an interesting experiment! > > I guess all you would need here is Guido's blessing, and you could do the > rest yourself! You have my blessing! Please call it idle-fork. I don't have the time to do any of the interaction with sourceforge. The SF admins should be able to copy the idle subtree of the Python project into idle-fork so that you have a decent CVS history to start with! --Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/) From rcalco@cortechs.com Fri Jun 23 18:49:04 2000 From: rcalco@cortechs.com (Bob Calco) Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 13:49:04 -0400 Subject: [Idle-dev] Entry point Tcl_Alloc not found in tcl80.dll Message-ID: This isn't specifically regarding Idle development, but I thought I'd ask, since I first noticed the problem trying to start up Idle. pythonw.exe started having problems with the tcl80.dll on or about the time I installed Tcl 8.3.1 on my system yesterday, to check it out. Now I know Python 1.5.2 needs 8.0.5 of Tcl, and I didn't uninstall that, I just installed Tcl 8.3.1 in its own little directory. Anyway, to make a long story short, I uninstalled everything -- Tcl 8.3.1, Tcl 8.0.5, and Python 1.5.2 (as well as the Win32 extensions and PythonWin). Then I reinstalled everything but Tcl 8.3.1 and rebooted my system. It still says Entry point Tcl_Alloc could not be found in tcl80.dll three times before exiting. Mind you Tcl's wish80 comes up fine, and the PythonWin stuff (not relying on Tk at all) also works fine. However pythonw.exe (and therefore idle-0.5) still have that same dll problem. Mind you I'm on Win 2K -- what? You mean they didn't solve the "DLL Hell" problem? I'm shocked! Any ideas anybody? #******************************************* #* Bob Calco #* Consulting Technologist #* CorTechs, Inc. #******************************************* #* MI Certified Product Specialist #* MI Certified Product Instructor #******************************************* #* rcalco@cortechs.com #* 703.989.3160 -- cell #*******************************************