From lac at openend.se Tue Mar 11 15:10:04 2008 From: lac at openend.se (Laura Creighton) Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 15:10:04 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] ideas for Europython Message-ID: <200803111410.m2BEA4JN032282@theraft.openend.se> We're still very short of volunteers. Try joining europython-improve at python.org if you want to help out. From lac at openend.se Tue Mar 11 17:35:55 2008 From: lac at openend.se (Laura Creighton) Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 17:35:55 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] ideas for Europython In-Reply-To: Message from Laura Creighton of "Tue, 11 Mar 2008 15:10:04 +0100." <200803111410.m2BEA4JN032282@theraft.openend.se> References: <200803111410.m2BEA4JN032282@theraft.openend.se> Message-ID: <200803111635.m2BGZtWh004466@theraft.openend.se> In a message of Tue, 11 Mar 2008 15:10:04 +0100, Laura Creighton writes: >We're still very short of volunteers. Try joining europython-improve at pyt >hon.org >if you want to help out. And at that point my internet connection went away for the day. So, while true, that wasn't all I wanted to say. :-) One thing we have always done is outreach to some other area -- business or testing or agile methodologies or ... So we need input, what would people be interested in seeing this year? Also we wonder would people be interested in tutorials? Would those that would let us know what sort of tutorials they would be interested in? And how much they would be interested in paying for it? No promises, but we'd like to know what interests you. And, yes, we'd really like to see more volunteers to help organise this thing. Laura From haraldarminmassa at gmail.com Wed Mar 12 11:47:43 2008 From: haraldarminmassa at gmail.com (Harald Armin Massa) Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2008 11:47:43 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] ideas for Europython In-Reply-To: <200803111635.m2BGZtWh004466@theraft.openend.se> References: <200803111410.m2BEA4JN032282@theraft.openend.se> <200803111635.m2BGZtWh004466@theraft.openend.se> Message-ID: <7be3f35d0803120347i7caaf22cu563c904f9a6c34a3@mail.gmail.com> > >We're still very short of volunteers. Try joining europython-improve at pyt > >hon.org > >if you want to help out. to make it a one-click and enter some stuff option: http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/europython-improve Harald -- GHUM Harald Massa persuadere et programmare Harald Armin Massa Spielberger Stra?e 49 70435 Stuttgart 0173/9409607 fx 01212-5-13695179 - EuroPython 2008 will take place in Vilnius, Lithuania - Stay tuned! From paul at boddie.org.uk Thu Mar 13 22:36:44 2008 From: paul at boddie.org.uk (Paul Boddie) Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2008 22:36:44 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] EuroPython 2008: Another Call for Theme and Talk Suggestions Message-ID: <200803132236.45106.paul@boddie.org.uk> It has been very quiet on the mailing list recently, but for those of you not aware of the work happening behind the scenes for EuroPython, we have been getting ready to accept talk proposals for this year's conference. As a result, we [*] are still interested in having as many ideas for conference themes and talks as possible - really, we just want to know what topics are most interesting to people who are thinking about coming to EuroPython 2008. See here for the page of talk and theme suggestions so far: http://www.europython.org/community/Talk_Suggestions And see here for some help on contributing to the EuroPython site: http://www.europython.org/community/Participants If you want to help review talks, once we start accepting proposals, don't be shy! Either send a mail to this list, or create an account on the EuroPython site and add yourself to the "Conference Programme" list: http://www.europython.org/community/Volunteers And if you can think of innovative ideas for a particular theme: perhaps some kind of tutorial session or just a gathering of people with a passionate interest in a particular theme, feel free to tell us all about it! Make EuroPython yours: get involved now! :-) [*] As EuroPython is a community conference, there isn't really an "us" (meaning the organisers) and a "them" (meaning everyone else). Everyone is welcome to help shape the conference into something meaningful to them. See the EuroPython site at europython.org for more information! From lac at openend.se Fri Mar 14 01:15:26 2008 From: lac at openend.se (Laura Creighton) Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 01:15:26 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] recording Europython Message-ID: <200803140015.m2E0FQfi002361@theraft.openend.se> every year, a few weeks before Europython, somebody gets the idea that we should record the talks. At this point and time, the organisers all say 'EEEEP! Great idea but too late now, too bad you didn't say something earlier.' For 2008, Now's the earlier when you should be saying something. Laura From marco.mariani at prometeia.it Fri Mar 14 11:14:17 2008 From: marco.mariani at prometeia.it (Marco Mariani) Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 11:14:17 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] recording Europython In-Reply-To: <200803140015.m2E0FQfi002361@theraft.openend.se> References: <200803140015.m2E0FQfi002361@theraft.openend.se> Message-ID: <47DA4FF9.80103@prometeia.it> Laura Creighton wrote: > For 2008, Now's the earlier when you should be saying something. > Unfortunately, I cannot volunteer, but I think a side-to-side recording like this http://rubyconf2007.confreaks.com/d1t1p1_what_makes_code_beautiful.html would make a *huge* difference. -- This e-mail (and any attachment(s)) is strictly confidential and for use only by intended recipient(s). Any use, distribution, reproduction or disclosure by any other person is strictly prohibited. The content of this e-mail does not constitute a commitment by the Company except where provided for in a written agreement between this e-mail addressee and the Company. If you are not an intended recipient(s), please notify the sender promptly and destroy this message and its attachments without reading or saving it in any manner. Any non authorized use of the content of this message constitutes a violation of the obligation to abstain from learning of the correspondence among other subjects, except for more serious offence, and exposes the person responsible to the relevant consequences. From regebro at gmail.com Fri Mar 14 21:17:43 2008 From: regebro at gmail.com (Lennart Regebro) Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 21:17:43 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] recording Europython In-Reply-To: <200803140015.m2E0FQfi002361@theraft.openend.se> References: <200803140015.m2E0FQfi002361@theraft.openend.se> Message-ID: <319e029f0803141317s275a750ci82046b35b0f3cf82@mail.gmail.com> On Fri, Mar 14, 2008 at 1:15 AM, Laura Creighton wrote: > For 2008, Now's the earlier when you should be saying something. I've been to 2? conference now (currently at PyCon) and and both the two first ones, EuropPython 2007 and PloneConf 2007, some talks (all att PloneConf) was recorded and supposed to be put up "later". That "later" never happened. I suspect that after the conference everybody is too tired to actually do anything. I think that if somebody wants to do this stuff, they should be dedicated to do that, and the setup should be such that publishing it is a matter of pushing a button, more or less. Otherwise it won't happen, and may be just a waste of energy. -- Lennart Regebro: Zope and Plone consulting. http://www.colliberty.com/ +33 661 58 14 64 From cs at comlounge.net Mon Mar 17 15:49:18 2008 From: cs at comlounge.net (Christian Scholz) Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 15:49:18 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] recording Europython In-Reply-To: <319e029f0803141317s275a750ci82046b35b0f3cf82@mail.gmail.com> References: <200803140015.m2E0FQfi002361@theraft.openend.se> <319e029f0803141317s275a750ci82046b35b0f3cf82@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <47DE84EE.4030205@comlounge.net> Hi! Lennart Regebro wrote: > On Fri, Mar 14, 2008 at 1:15 AM, Laura Creighton wrote: >> For 2008, Now's the earlier when you should be saying something. > > I've been to 2? conference now (currently at PyCon) and and both the > two first ones, EuropPython 2007 and PloneConf 2007, some talks (all > att PloneConf) was recorded and supposed to be put up "later". That > "later" never happened. Well, that's not completely true. First of all the recording at EuroPython 2007 was my own decision to do and thus completely voluntarily and there even appeared most of the talks I recorded at http://comlounge.tv With Plone Conference some talks also appeared on http://plone.tv and those which I recorded on http://ustream.tv The problem is clear though: Doing video recordings with good post production (adding titles, maybe slides) is great to have but also a lot of work. If you record on tape you usually have to do: - get the footage off the tape (this is realtime, 1 hr talk = 1 hr wait for capturing) - edit the video (depending on what you have to add, simple process with intro/outro is maybe 10 mins, adding slides might be 1-2 hours per talk) - render the video (depends on hardware and settings, might also take 1 hr or even more) In the case of capturing and rendering those computers used for it are usually taken by this so you cannot really do much in parallel unless you have lots of computers. All of this is probably the reason why video productions rarely work good that way unless you throw a lot of money at it. What I learned from previous conferences was that a somewhat different workflow might work better in which you do as much as you can on location, including publishing it. This can work as follows: - put a camera with tripod in every room you want to capture - attach it to a laptop/computer - stream it live via http://ustream.tv or similar services. - record it on the service - copy the embed code over to some blog or wiki or website. That's all. Downside: You need a good enough connection to stream to that service, quality is not 100% great but usually sufficient. The good side: Setup is very easy, no editing is needed and it's directly online. Of course the other good thing is that people can watch it live and eventually ask questions via the chat which could be relayed be the video person to the speaker. An alternative would be not to stream it live but to directly capture it via e.g. Quicktime Pro (but I am not sure if this can encode directly). You only would need to upload it then and you need enough HD space. So what's usually needed for one of these setups is some people controlling it (it would be good to at least have 2 people per room so that 1 person is not bound to one room the whole time), one camera, one laptop, one tripod. Additionally to have better recording quality other things would be good such as - a wireless microphone or some connection to an existing microphone to get better sound (that's problem number one usually, getting not the typing around you but the speaker's voice on tape) - good lighting. The speaker should always be in good light and we should notice light from windows in front earlier (like it was at Simon's keynote last year, was hard to film). This should be some working setup. I myself can provide 2 cameras and 1 tripod. I would prefer the streaming solution as this can provide more participation from the outside (streaming to Second Life would be nice aswell but then you need a Quicktime Streaming Server which are not that easy to get and are expensive. Flash streaming on the net is free these days and getting better and better). ustream.tv also allows you to download the recordings, convert/edit them and upload them somewhere else. It also hosts your recordings if you wish to do so. In general I'd go for http://blip.tv if you want to host videos, thus no sponsor should be needed for hosting videos. > I suspect that after the conference everybody is too tired to actually > do anything. I think that if somebody wants to do this stuff, they > should be dedicated to do that, and the setup should be such that > publishing it is a matter of pushing a button, more or less. Otherwise > it won't happen, and may be just a waste of energy. Well, I think if some volunteers even just record a few talks and put even fewer of them online, that's still ok as long as people do not expect everything to happen. If they do, they should think about helping by e.g. controlling cameras, providing something etc. cheers, Christian -- Christian Scholz video blog: http://comlounge.tv COM.lounge blog: http://mrtopf.de/blog Luetticher Strasse 10 Skype: HerrTopf 52064 Aachen Homepage: http://comlounge.net Tel: +49 241 400 730 0 E-Mail cs at comlounge.net Fax: +49 241 979 00 850 IRC: MrTopf, Tao_T connect with me: http://mrtopf.de/connect From regebro at gmail.com Mon Mar 17 17:00:41 2008 From: regebro at gmail.com (Lennart Regebro) Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 17:00:41 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] recording Europython In-Reply-To: <47DE84EE.4030205@comlounge.net> References: <200803140015.m2E0FQfi002361@theraft.openend.se> <319e029f0803141317s275a750ci82046b35b0f3cf82@mail.gmail.com> <47DE84EE.4030205@comlounge.net> Message-ID: <319e029f0803170900q60aa20cfsac2f58bb9cb8d559@mail.gmail.com> On Mon, Mar 17, 2008 at 3:49 PM, Christian Scholz wrote: > Well, that's not completely true. First of all the recording at > EuroPython 2007 was my own decision to do and thus completely > voluntarily and there even appeared most of the talks I recorded at > http://comlounge.tv Oh, OK, then I misrembembered, I thought there was some more people. So it was only the Plone Cnference recordings that gone missing (yours of course didn't, but the official ones). > In the case of capturing and rendering those computers used for it are > usually taken by this so you cannot really do much in parallel unless > you have lots of computers. Which is why they asked to borrow peoples laptops here at PyCon. :) > What I learned from previous conferences was that a somewhat different > workflow might work better in which you do as much as you can on > location, including publishing it. This can work as follows: > > - put a camera with tripod in every room you want to capture > - attach it to a laptop/computer > - stream it live via http://ustream.tv or similar services. > - record it on the service > - copy the embed code over to some blog or wiki or website. Yes, exactly! This is not going to get the good uality with synchronized slides and stuff, but you don't need that. It's cool, but a straight recording of not amazing quality is better than no recording. > - a wireless microphone or some connection to an existing microphone to > get better sound (that's problem number one usually, getting not the > typing around you but the speaker's voice on tape) > - good lighting. The speaker should always be in good light and we > should notice light from windows in front earlier (like it was at > Simon's keynote last year, was hard to film). Somebody that has a second mic to catch the questions at the end is a really good thing as well. That also improves the experience at the conference as well. -- Lennart Regebro: Zope and Plone consulting. http://www.colliberty.com/ +33 661 58 14 64 From david at boddie.org.uk Tue Mar 18 02:02:39 2008 From: david at boddie.org.uk (David Boddie) Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 02:02:39 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] EuroPython 2008 - Any interest in tutorials? Message-ID: <200803180202.39481.david@boddie.org.uk> As many of you are already aware, preparations for this year's EuroPython are under way. For the second year running, the event will be held in Vilnius, Lithuania, with the main programme taking place on Monday 7th, Tuesday 8th and Wednesday 9th July. Those of us involved with organising the conference are currently looking for ways in which we can make the event more interesting for beginners and experts alike. One way in which we could do this, particularly for people who are learning Python, is to allocate time for tutorials. This approach appears to be popular at conferences like PyCon and PyCon UK, but isn't something we normally do at EuroPython, though there are often talks are aimed at beginners in the schedule. What we'd like to know is: * Is this something that you would like to see? * Would you be interested in giving a tutorial? * Which subject would you be interested in hearing/talking about? If you answered "yes" to either of the first two questions, please feel free to add suggestions for tutorials, either as a participant or as a speaker, to this page on the EuroPython Wiki: http://www.europython.org/community/Talk_Suggestions We're always looking for more participants/organisers. Please take a look at this page on the EuroPython Web site for more details on how to get involved: http://www.europython.org/community/Participants Hope to see some of you there! David Boddie - EuroPython 2008 participant :-) From regebro at gmail.com Fri Mar 21 16:13:14 2008 From: regebro at gmail.com (Lennart Regebro) Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2008 16:13:14 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Program committee help needed? Message-ID: <319e029f0803210813h4c64c7f2n2d52edb37151fc6b@mail.gmail.com> I'm a bit annoyed that I don't have any time to help with EuroPython, when they organizers are so evidently overworked. I'll probably not even have time/money to go this year, which sucks, because I really like Vilnius. But at PyCon they said they needed help with the program comitt?e. Well, that's a job that I can do from my computer at home! So I thought, maybe EuroPython also need help with that? Because then I could actually do something. :) Well, do ya? -- Lennart Regebro: Zope and Plone consulting. http://www.colliberty.com/ +33 661 58 14 64 From lac at openend.se Fri Mar 21 16:34:45 2008 From: lac at openend.se (Laura Creighton) Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2008 16:34:45 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Program committee help needed? In-Reply-To: Message from "Lennart Regebro" of "Fri, 21 Mar 2008 16:13:14 +0100." <319e029f0803210813h4c64c7f2n2d52edb37151fc6b@mail.gmail.com> References: <319e029f0803210813h4c64c7f2n2d52edb37151fc6b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200803211534.m2LFYjW4008808@theraft.openend.se> In a message of Fri, 21 Mar 2008 16:13:14 +0100, "Lennart Regebro" writes: >I'm a bit annoyed that I don't have any time to help with EuroPython, >when they organizers are so evidently overworked. I'll probably not >even have time/money to go this year, which sucks, because I really >like Vilnius. > >But at PyCon they said they needed help with the program comitt?e. >Well, that's a job that I can do from my computer at home! So I >thought, maybe EuroPython also need help with that? Because then I >could actually do something. :) > >Well, do ya? > >-- >Lennart Regebro: Zope and Plone consulting. >http://www.colliberty.com/ >+33 661 58 14 64 Yes please. There are actually a whole lot of jobs which you could do from your computer at home. If you show up at the EP organising meeting we are having at 19.00 CET today, we can point you at some, or look at this list: http://wiki.python.org/moin/EuroPythonRoles?highlight=%28roles%29 And please join europython-improve at python.org where we are discussing things. For talks: Think of themes that you would like to have covered at Europython, and talks you would like to see, as well as people you might like to have give them. Also were you at the PyCON 'Teach me Twisted' session where Steve Holden was the learner? We'd like to hear from somebody who attended it how it worked in more detail. Thanks very much, and thank you for volunteering, Laura Creighton (for everybody) From regebro at gmail.com Fri Mar 21 16:48:58 2008 From: regebro at gmail.com (Lennart Regebro) Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2008 16:48:58 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Program committee help needed? In-Reply-To: <200803211534.m2LFYjW4008808@theraft.openend.se> References: <319e029f0803210813h4c64c7f2n2d52edb37151fc6b@mail.gmail.com> <200803211534.m2LFYjW4008808@theraft.openend.se> Message-ID: <319e029f0803210848s378f48d9lc9ac5093a7cd0b51@mail.gmail.com> On Fri, Mar 21, 2008 at 4:34 PM, Laura Creighton wrote: > There are actually a whole lot of jobs which you could do from your > computer at home. It should be noted that I couldn't organize my way out of a paper bag, so if it involves organizing something, or calling people, I'm gonna suck. :) > If you show up at the EP organising meeting > we are having at 19.00 CET today OK, I'll do that. > And please join europython-improve at python.org where we are > discussing things. Done. > have give them. Also were you at the PyCON 'Teach me Twisted' > session where Steve Holden was the learner? No, sorry... -- Lennart Regebro: Zope and Plone consulting. http://www.colliberty.com/ +33 661 58 14 64 From kirby.urner at gmail.com Fri Mar 21 22:18:51 2008 From: kirby.urner at gmail.com (kirby urner) Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2008 14:18:51 -0700 Subject: [EuroPython] Program committee help needed? In-Reply-To: <319e029f0803210813h4c64c7f2n2d52edb37151fc6b@mail.gmail.com> References: <319e029f0803210813h4c64c7f2n2d52edb37151fc6b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Fri, Mar 21, 2008 at 8:13 AM, Lennart Regebro wrote: > I'm a bit annoyed that I don't have any time to help with EuroPython, > when they organizers are so evidently overworked. I'll probably not > even have time/money to go this year, which sucks, because I really > like Vilnius. Yeah me too, a lot. Perfect conference hotel, POV brings experience. But then Gothenburg has Chalmers, Open End... How about just go back and forth between these two? OK just a fantasy, a way of registering my enthusiasm for both venues. Kirby > > But at PyCon they said they needed help with the program comitt?e. > Well, that's a job that I can do from my computer at home! So I > thought, maybe EuroPython also need help with that? Because then I > could actually do something. :) > > Well, do ya? > > -- > Lennart Regebro: Zope and Plone consulting. > http://www.colliberty.com/ > +33 661 58 14 64 > _______________________________________________ > EuroPython mailing list > EuroPython at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/europython > From paul at boddie.org.uk Sat Mar 22 22:30:12 2008 From: paul at boddie.org.uk (Paul Boddie) Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2008 22:30:12 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Vote for a New EuroPython Logo! Message-ID: <200803222230.12737.paul@boddie.org.uk> We?ve had many great submissions for the EuroPython logo competition, and it is now time to make a decision: the current logo has been in use since EuroPython began back in 2002; which logo should replace it? Visit the EuroPython Web site to browse the entrants and to cast your votes: http://www.europython.org/community/Planning/ProposedLogo We?ll announce the winning logo after a suitable amount of time has elapsed, but don?t risk being too late: visit the site and vote now! (Apologies to anyone reading this for the second or third time. As some of you may have noticed, EuroPython conference blog entries are now carried by the Planet Python feed.) From reinoud.v at n.leeuwen.net Sat Mar 22 23:10:41 2008 From: reinoud.v at n.leeuwen.net (Reinoud van Leeuwen) Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2008 23:10:41 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Vote for a New EuroPython Logo! In-Reply-To: <200803222230.12737.paul@boddie.org.uk> References: <200803222230.12737.paul@boddie.org.uk> Message-ID: <20080322221041.GC61008@spoetnik.xs4all.nl> On Sat, Mar 22, 2008 at 10:30:12PM +0100, Paul Boddie wrote: > We?ve had many great submissions for the EuroPython logo competition, and it > is now time to make a decision: the current logo has been in use since > EuroPython began back in 2002; which logo should replace it? > > Visit the EuroPython Web site to browse the entrants and to cast your votes: > > http://www.europython.org/community/Planning/ProposedLogo None of the links on that page show me any logo. And when I click on the 'full size verzion' link I am redirected to http:/wiki/ep2008/img/logo/Badge.png I think a decent CMS is a bigger priority that the logo... -- __________________________________________________ "Nothing is as subjective as reality" Reinoud van Leeuwen reinoud.v at n.leeuwen.net http://reinoud.van.leeuwen.net __________________________________________________ From kirby.urner at gmail.com Sat Mar 22 23:20:37 2008 From: kirby.urner at gmail.com (kirby urner) Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2008 15:20:37 -0700 Subject: [EuroPython] Vote for a New EuroPython Logo! In-Reply-To: <20080322221041.GC61008@spoetnik.xs4all.nl> References: <200803222230.12737.paul@boddie.org.uk> <20080322221041.GC61008@spoetnik.xs4all.nl> Message-ID: Works for me. I get a list of contestants, a thumbnail page, a full size page. I don't think I'll vote though. Feeling like I don't live in Europe, so I shouldn't have a say. Good work though -- very promising graphics. Kirby On Sat, Mar 22, 2008 at 3:10 PM, Reinoud van Leeuwen wrote: > On Sat, Mar 22, 2008 at 10:30:12PM +0100, Paul Boddie wrote: > > We've had many great submissions for the EuroPython logo competition, and it > > is now time to make a decision: the current logo has been in use since > > EuroPython began back in 2002; which logo should replace it? > > > > Visit the EuroPython Web site to browse the entrants and to cast your votes: > > > > http://www.europython.org/community/Planning/ProposedLogo > > None of the links on that page show me any logo. And when I click on the > 'full size verzion' link I am redirected to > > http:/wiki/ep2008/img/logo/Badge.png > > I think a decent CMS is a bigger priority that the logo... > > > -- > __________________________________________________ > "Nothing is as subjective as reality" > Reinoud van Leeuwen reinoud.v at n.leeuwen.net > http://reinoud.van.leeuwen.net > __________________________________________________ > > > _______________________________________________ > EuroPython mailing list > EuroPython at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/europython > From reinoud.v at n.leeuwen.net Sat Mar 22 23:36:49 2008 From: reinoud.v at n.leeuwen.net (Reinoud van Leeuwen) Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2008 23:36:49 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Vote for a New EuroPython Logo! In-Reply-To: References: <200803222230.12737.paul@boddie.org.uk> <20080322221041.GC61008@spoetnik.xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <20080322223649.GE61008@spoetnik.xs4all.nl> On Sat, Mar 22, 2008 at 03:20:37PM -0700, kirby urner wrote: > Works for me. I get a list of contestants, a thumbnail page, a full > size page. Hmm Firefox accepts it but Safari not. And for a good reason: on http://www.europython.org/community/Planning/ProposedLogo/Jonkman the not working image is referred to as http:/wiki/ep2008/img/logo/europython-112x80.png (Safari) The HTML source is http:/wiki/ep2008/img/logo/europython-112x80.png Other images on the page are things like: src="/wiki/modern/img/star_off.png" But /wiki is of course something else that http:/wiki So please fix the other problems first, and test your code. We are using a language that has fantastic test frameworks. Delivering something sloppy like this is really bad press IMHO.... -- __________________________________________________ "Nothing is as subjective as reality" Reinoud van Leeuwen reinoud.v at n.leeuwen.net http://reinoud.van.leeuwen.net __________________________________________________ From paul at boddie.org.uk Sun Mar 23 00:26:33 2008 From: paul at boddie.org.uk (Paul Boddie) Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2008 00:26:33 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Vote for a New EuroPython Logo! In-Reply-To: <20080322223649.GE61008@spoetnik.xs4all.nl> References: <200803222230.12737.paul@boddie.org.uk> <20080322223649.GE61008@spoetnik.xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <200803230026.34048.paul@boddie.org.uk> On Saturday 22 March 2008 23:36:49 Reinoud van Leeuwen wrote: > On Sat, Mar 22, 2008 at 03:20:37PM -0700, kirby urner wrote: > > Works for me. I get a list of contestants, a thumbnail page, a full > > size page. > > Hmm Firefox accepts it but Safari not. And for a good reason: > > on http://www.europython.org/community/Planning/ProposedLogo/Jonkman the > not working image is referred to as > http:/wiki/ep2008/img/logo/europython-112x80.png (Safari) Yes, this is the result of what the MoinMoin help actually suggests: http://www.europython.org/community/HelpOnLinking > The HTML source is > > href="http:/wiki/ep2008/img/logo/europython-112x80.png"> alt="http:/wiki/ep2008/img/logo/europython-112x80.png" > src="http:/wiki/ep2008/img/logo/europython-112x80.png" > title="http:/wiki/ep2008/img/logo/europython-112x80.png" /> > > Other images on the page are things like: > src="/wiki/modern/img/star_off.png" > > But /wiki is of course something else that http:/wiki Not necessarily. Please see RFC 3986, which is probably what most browsers support: http://gbiv.com/protocols/uri/rfc/rfc3986.html#components I'd be interested to hear whether people experience difficulties with Internet Explorer. > So please fix the other problems first, and test your code. We are using a > language that has fantastic test frameworks. Delivering something sloppy > like this is really bad press IMHO.... I suggest that you bring Safari's apparent inability to handle RFC 3986 to its developers. I note that Konqueror 3.5.6, which shares some technology with Safari, has no problems showing the images. Paul P.S. Volunteers are always welcome to improve the Web site. From lac at openend.se Sun Mar 23 01:00:56 2008 From: lac at openend.se (Laura Creighton) Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2008 01:00:56 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Vote for a New EuroPython Logo! In-Reply-To: Message from Reinoud van Leeuwen of "Sat, 22 Mar 2008 23:36:49 +0100." <20080322223649.GE61008@spoetnik.xs4all.nl> References: <200803222230.12737.paul@boddie.org.uk> <20080322221041.GC61008@spoetnik.xs4all.nl> <20080322223649.GE61008@spoetnik.xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <200803230000.m2N00vlr022415@theraft.openend.se> In a message of Sat, 22 Mar 2008 23:36:49 +0100, Reinoud van Leeuwen writes: >So please fix the other problems first, and test your code. We are using >a >language that has fantastic test frameworks. Delivering something sloppy >like this is really bad press IMHO.... >Reinoud van Leeuwen reinoud.v at n.leeuwen.net >http://reinoud.van.leeuwen.net Want to join europython-improve as a tester for safari? Laura From reinoud.v at n.leeuwen.net Sun Mar 23 02:07:12 2008 From: reinoud.v at n.leeuwen.net (Reinoud van Leeuwen) Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2008 02:07:12 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Vote for a New EuroPython Logo! In-Reply-To: <200803230026.34048.paul@boddie.org.uk> References: <200803222230.12737.paul@boddie.org.uk> <20080322223649.GE61008@spoetnik.xs4all.nl> <200803230026.34048.paul@boddie.org.uk> Message-ID: <20080323010712.GF61008@spoetnik.xs4all.nl> On Sun, Mar 23, 2008 at 12:26:33AM +0100, Paul Boddie wrote: > I suggest that you bring Safari's apparent inability to handle RFC 3986 to its > developers. I note that Konqueror 3.5.6, which shares some technology with > Safari, has no problems showing the images. Yes, blame others instead of making a website that all browsers can read... I'm very surprised no one else noticed this... -- __________________________________________________ "Nothing is as subjective as reality" Reinoud van Leeuwen reinoud.v at n.leeuwen.net http://reinoud.van.leeuwen.net __________________________________________________ From paul at boddie.org.uk Sun Mar 23 03:15:07 2008 From: paul at boddie.org.uk (Paul Boddie) Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2008 03:15:07 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Vote for a New EuroPython Logo! In-Reply-To: <20080323010712.GF61008@spoetnik.xs4all.nl> References: <200803222230.12737.paul@boddie.org.uk> <200803230026.34048.paul@boddie.org.uk> <20080323010712.GF61008@spoetnik.xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <200803230315.07325.paul@boddie.org.uk> On Sunday 23 March 2008 02:07:12 Reinoud van Leeuwen wrote: > On Sun, Mar 23, 2008 at 12:26:33AM +0100, Paul Boddie wrote: > > I suggest that you bring Safari's apparent inability to handle RFC 3986 > > to its developers. I note that Konqueror 3.5.6, which shares some > > technology with Safari, has no problems showing the images. > > Yes, blame others instead of making a website that all browsers can > read... Unfortunately, I can only personally test using two different browsers (each having two different versions [*]) and have to rely on others to point out incompatibilities which occur with other browsers. I do not, I'm afraid to say, run all browsers myself. > I'm very surprised no one else noticed this... Well, the Safari people will need to deal with this issue eventually, if they haven't done so already in a version later than the one you're using. Some version and platform information would indeed be nice in order to work out who this problem might affect besides yourself. In any case, thank you for the feedback. If you're inclined to help out with testing or with any other volunteer activity, please feel free to join the europython-improve list: http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/europython-improve Paul [*] Firefox 1.5 and 2.0, Konqueror 3.5.2 and 3.5.6. From regebro at gmail.com Sun Mar 23 08:14:49 2008 From: regebro at gmail.com (Lennart Regebro) Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2008 08:14:49 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Vote for a New EuroPython Logo! In-Reply-To: <20080322223649.GE61008@spoetnik.xs4all.nl> References: <200803222230.12737.paul@boddie.org.uk> <20080322221041.GC61008@spoetnik.xs4all.nl> <20080322223649.GE61008@spoetnik.xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <319e029f0803230014h1c6fb44fyc7b13629b2467de6@mail.gmail.com> On Sat, Mar 22, 2008 at 11:36 PM, Reinoud van Leeuwen wrote: > But /wiki is of course something else that http:/wiki It's actually the same thing, and valid syntax. That syntax should be avoided (so the site is doing wrong) but allowed (which Safari doesn't, so it's also wrong). -- Lennart Regebro: Zope and Plone consulting. http://www.colliberty.com/ +33 661 58 14 64 From paulj at webtic.nl Sun Mar 23 10:58:34 2008 From: paulj at webtic.nl (Paul Jongsma) Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2008 10:58:34 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Vote for a New EuroPython Logo! In-Reply-To: <200803230026.34048.paul@boddie.org.uk> References: <200803222230.12737.paul@boddie.org.uk> <20080322223649.GE61008@spoetnik.xs4all.nl> <200803230026.34048.paul@boddie.org.uk> Message-ID: <833DAA6E-8505-4838-91CF-2F6CB53BC22D@webtic.nl> On 23 mrt 2008, at 00:26, Paul Boddie wrote: > On Saturday 22 March 2008 23:36:49 Reinoud van Leeuwen wrote: >> On Sat, Mar 22, 2008 at 03:20:37PM -0700, kirby urner wrote: >>> Works for me. I get a list of contestants, a thumbnail page, a full >>> size page. >> >> Hmm Firefox accepts it but Safari not. And for a good reason: >> >> on http://www.europython.org/community/Planning/ProposedLogo/ >> Jonkman the >> not working image is referred to as >> http:/wiki/ep2008/img/logo/europython-112x80.png (Safari) > > Yes, this is the result of what the MoinMoin help actually suggests: > > http://www.europython.org/community/HelpOnLinking While not being intimate with MoinMoin I do use it sometimes and never seen this problem on other Wiki's As I am not allowed to edit that specific page I cannot see the coding of it, but if it using ImageLink that might be the cause, it appears to be outdated, see http://moinmo.in/MacroMarket/ImageLink > I'd be interested to hear whether people experience difficulties > with Internet > Explorer. Checked IE6, it renders it into a working page. Tested both Safari 3.0 and 3.1 this covers all recent Mac OS X releases, both fail. It would be good to fix the pages. Best regards Paul From paul at boddie.org.uk Sun Mar 23 15:56:40 2008 From: paul at boddie.org.uk (Paul Boddie) Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2008 15:56:40 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Vote for a New EuroPython Logo! In-Reply-To: <833DAA6E-8505-4838-91CF-2F6CB53BC22D@webtic.nl> References: <200803222230.12737.paul@boddie.org.uk> <200803230026.34048.paul@boddie.org.uk> <833DAA6E-8505-4838-91CF-2F6CB53BC22D@webtic.nl> Message-ID: <200803231556.40926.paul@boddie.org.uk> On Sunday 23 March 2008 10:58:34 Paul Jongsma wrote: > > While not being intimate with MoinMoin I do use it sometimes and never > seen this problem on other Wiki's > As I am not allowed to edit that specific page I cannot see the coding > of it, but if it using ImageLink that might be the cause, it appears > to be outdated, see http://moinmo.in/MacroMarket/ImageLink You should still be able to view the raw text of the page - see the actions menu for details. In fact, the images are inserted using the conventional link syntax. > Checked IE6, it renders it into a working page. > Tested both Safari 3.0 and 3.1 this covers all recent Mac OS X > releases, both fail. > It would be good to fix the pages. Thanks for the report. I'll update the page to use the full URLs for the images instead. Paul From kirby.urner at gmail.com Sun Mar 23 16:40:04 2008 From: kirby.urner at gmail.com (kirby urner) Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2008 08:40:04 -0700 Subject: [EuroPython] Vote for a New EuroPython Logo! In-Reply-To: <200803231556.40926.paul@boddie.org.uk> References: <200803222230.12737.paul@boddie.org.uk> <200803230026.34048.paul@boddie.org.uk> <833DAA6E-8505-4838-91CF-2F6CB53BC22D@webtic.nl> <200803231556.40926.paul@boddie.org.uk> Message-ID: Finding it ironic how "let's vote for our flag" turned into wrestling with the machinery in the voting booth. Kirby From reinoud.v at n.leeuwen.net Sun Mar 23 17:10:11 2008 From: reinoud.v at n.leeuwen.net (Reinoud van Leeuwen) Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2008 17:10:11 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Vote for a New EuroPython Logo! In-Reply-To: References: <200803222230.12737.paul@boddie.org.uk> <200803230026.34048.paul@boddie.org.uk> <833DAA6E-8505-4838-91CF-2F6CB53BC22D@webtic.nl> <200803231556.40926.paul@boddie.org.uk> Message-ID: <20080323161011.GM61008@spoetnik.xs4all.nl> On Sun, Mar 23, 2008 at 08:40:04AM -0700, kirby urner wrote: > Finding it ironic how "let's vote for our flag" turned into wrestling > with the machinery in the voting booth. Isn't that the trend nowadays with electronic voting systems? ";-) -- __________________________________________________ "Nothing is as subjective as reality" Reinoud van Leeuwen reinoud.v at n.leeuwen.net http://reinoud.van.leeuwen.net __________________________________________________ From mvm at brutele.be Mon Mar 24 13:49:50 2008 From: mvm at brutele.be (mvm) Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2008 13:49:50 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Vote for a New EuroPython Logo! References: <200803222230.12737.paul@boddie.org.uk> Message-ID: <011501c88dad$8c6dbdc0$6501a8c0@gfx02> > Visit the EuroPython Web site to browse the entrants and to cast your > votes: > > http://www.europython.org/community/Planning/ProposedLogo And here, You can see all my proposals : http://mvm.quintagroup.com/websites/mvm/epclogos/serie1 Vincent Maton web designer -------------------------- Graphic :: Designer :: Internet www.mvmgraphic.be From mambomalsehn at web.de Mon Mar 24 17:48:01 2008 From: mambomalsehn at web.de (johannes faber) Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2008 17:48:01 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] EuroPython Digest, Vol 55, Issue 7 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1ED51E08-9D36-4DBE-92E8-D1683249221C@web.de> Am 23. Mrz 2008 um 12:00 schrieb europython-request at python.org: >>> http://www.europython.org/community/Planning/ProposedLogo there is no problem with safari 3.1 an mac os x 10.4.11 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/europython/attachments/20080324/41f6235e/attachment.htm From renesd at gmail.com Tue Mar 25 00:55:22 2008 From: renesd at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Ren=E9_Dudfield?=) Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2008 10:55:22 +1100 Subject: [EuroPython] rss feed on front page missing. paste this into header... Message-ID: <64ddb72c0803241655s79f82aelecb9b777a666dcd6@mail.gmail.com> hi, the euro python front page needs its rss feed in the head of the html. cheers, From renesd at gmail.com Tue Mar 25 01:01:09 2008 From: renesd at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Ren=E9_Dudfield?=) Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2008 11:01:09 +1100 Subject: [EuroPython] rss feed on front page missing. paste this into header... In-Reply-To: <64ddb72c0803241655s79f82aelecb9b777a666dcd6@mail.gmail.com> References: <64ddb72c0803241655s79f82aelecb9b777a666dcd6@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <64ddb72c0803241701l66ffdc9bs34218a79dba2f549@mail.gmail.com> Another improvement for the blog navigation... Put a link to the main europython page on the blog. Probably in the nav section next to the about link...
  • Main europython page
    • cheers, On Tue, Mar 25, 2008 at 10:55 AM, Ren? Dudfield wrote: > hi, > > the euro python front page needs its rss feed in the head of the html. > > > > > > cheers, > From paul at boddie.org.uk Tue Mar 25 01:30:07 2008 From: paul at boddie.org.uk (Paul Boddie) Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2008 01:30:07 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] rss feed on front page missing. paste this into header... In-Reply-To: <64ddb72c0803241701l66ffdc9bs34218a79dba2f549@mail.gmail.com> References: <64ddb72c0803241655s79f82aelecb9b777a666dcd6@mail.gmail.com> <64ddb72c0803241701l66ffdc9bs34218a79dba2f549@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200803250130.07945.paul@boddie.org.uk> Ren?, Thank you for the suggestions! > Another improvement for the blog navigation... > > Put a link to the main europython page on the blog. > > Probably in the nav section next to the about link... >
  • Main europython page
    • The blog is a WordPress site, so I'll need some time to figure this out - it doesn't seem as simple as just editing the HTML, unfortunately. I've added the link elements to the development version of the Wiki, however, and I'll try and update the public site tomorrow. Regards, Paul From cs at comlounge.net Tue Mar 25 01:29:28 2008 From: cs at comlounge.net (Christian Scholz) Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2008 01:29:28 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] rss feed on front page missing. paste this into header... In-Reply-To: <200803250130.07945.paul@boddie.org.uk> References: <64ddb72c0803241655s79f82aelecb9b777a666dcd6@mail.gmail.com> <64ddb72c0803241701l66ffdc9bs34218a79dba2f549@mail.gmail.com> <200803250130.07945.paul@boddie.org.uk> Message-ID: <47E84768.8040807@comlounge.net> Hi! That link was already in the blogroll but the blogroll wasn't in the sidebar ;-) I changed this now and it shows up. -- Christian Paul Boddie wrote: > Ren?, > > Thank you for the suggestions! > >> Another improvement for the blog navigation... >> >> Put a link to the main europython page on the blog. >> >> Probably in the nav section next to the about link... >>
  • Main europython page
    • > > The blog is a WordPress site, so I'll need some time to figure this out - it > doesn't seem as simple as just editing the HTML, unfortunately. > > I've added the link elements to the development version of the Wiki, however, > and I'll try and update the public site tomorrow. > > Regards, > > Paul > _______________________________________________ > EuroPython mailing list > EuroPython at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/europython -- Christian Scholz video blog: http://comlounge.tv COM.lounge blog: http://mrtopf.de/blog Luetticher Strasse 10 Skype: HerrTopf 52064 Aachen Homepage: http://comlounge.net Tel: +49 241 400 730 0 E-Mail cs at comlounge.net Fax: +49 241 979 00 850 IRC: MrTopf, Tao_T connect with me: http://mrtopf.de/connect From steve at canonical.com Wed Mar 26 12:14:58 2008 From: steve at canonical.com (Steve Alexander) Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2008 12:14:58 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Proposal: Keynote speakers for EP 2008 Message-ID: <47EA3032.7040909@canonical.com> I want to propose two keynote speakers for EuroPython this year. Let me know what you think of this. The first is Karl Fogel, author of the Red Bean book on Subversion. His web site and weblog is at http://rants.org/ Karl's current passion is copyright reform, so I propose inviting him to give a keynote at EuroPython about what's up with copyright, and what we can do about it. The second is Van Lindberg. Van is a Python programmer and also a lawyer at a US law firm. He gave a keynote at PyCon this month, also about copyright, showing how it works, what it's for, its history and its problems. -- Steve From lac at openend.se Wed Mar 26 12:27:15 2008 From: lac at openend.se (Laura Creighton) Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2008 12:27:15 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Proposal: Keynote speakers for EP 2008 In-Reply-To: Message from Steve Alexander of "Wed, 26 Mar 2008 12:14:58 +0100." <47EA3032.7040909@canonical.com> References: <47EA3032.7040909@canonical.com> Message-ID: <200803261127.m2QBRFF0017179@theraft.openend.se> In a message of Wed, 26 Mar 2008 12:14:58 +0100, Steve Alexander writes: >I want to propose two keynote speakers for EuroPython this year. Let me >know what you think of this. > >The first is Karl Fogel, author of the Red Bean book on Subversion. His >web site and weblog is at http://rants.org/ > >Karl's current passion is copyright reform, so I propose inviting him to >give a keynote at EuroPython about what's up with copyright, and what we >can do about it. > > >The second is Van Lindberg. Van is a Python programmer and also a >lawyer at a US law firm. He gave a keynote at PyCon this month, also >about copyright, showing how it works, what it's for, its history and >its problems. > >-- Steve One of the greatest problems we face in Europe is overexposure to the USA version of copyright. People here believe that the law, history, and whatnot is the same as in the USA, when it is not. Through FFII I have many splendid connections with Europeans who are working on copyright reform both Europe wide and in their own countries -- in the Netherlands in particular things are getting very interesting right now -- so if this is a topic we would like to persue, I think it would work better as a panel discussion with experts from all over. Having helped host 2 conferences discussing how to make reforms in patents trademarks and copyrights in the last 16 months, I know where to round up the usual suspects. Laura From david at boddie.org.uk Thu Mar 27 00:29:23 2008 From: david at boddie.org.uk (David Boddie) Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2008 00:29:23 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Proposal: Keynote speakers for EP 2008 Message-ID: <200803270029.23438.david@boddie.org.uk> On Wed Mar 26 12:27:15 CET 2008, Laura Creighton wrote: > Through FFII I have many splendid connections with Europeans who are > working on copyright reform both Europe wide and in their own countries -- > in the Netherlands in particular things are getting very interesting > right now -- so if this is a topic we would like to persue, I think > it would work better as a panel discussion with experts from all over. I think this would be very useful. I think an discussion of these issues would be educational for a lot of people right now. David From ct at gocept.com Thu Mar 27 07:26:15 2008 From: ct at gocept.com (Christian Theune) Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2008 07:26:15 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Proposal: Keynote speakers for EP 2008 In-Reply-To: <47EA3032.7040909@canonical.com> References: <47EA3032.7040909@canonical.com> Message-ID: <20080327062615.GC14099@mindy> Hi, On Wed, Mar 26, 2008 at 12:14:58PM +0100, Steve Alexander wrote: > I want to propose two keynote speakers for EuroPython this year. Let me > know what you think of this. > > The first is Karl Fogel, author of the Red Bean book on Subversion. His > web site and weblog is at http://rants.org/ > > Karl's current passion is copyright reform, so I propose inviting him to > give a keynote at EuroPython about what's up with copyright, and what we > can do about it. Yay. I really enjoy Karls writing (he also wrote "Producing Open Source Software"). > The second is Van Lindberg. Van is a Python programmer and also a > lawyer at a US law firm. He gave a keynote at PyCon this month, also > about copyright, showing how it works, what it's for, its history and > its problems. I liked his presentation. In fact I thought it was the best keynote at PyCon actually. Christian -- gocept gmbh & co. kg - forsterstrasse 29 - 06112 halle (saale) - germany www.gocept.com - ct at gocept.com - phone +49 345 122 9889 7 - fax +49 345 122 9889 1 - zope and plone consulting and development From funthyme at gmail.com Thu Mar 27 12:56:35 2008 From: funthyme at gmail.com (John Pinner) Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2008 11:56:35 +0000 Subject: [EuroPython] Proposal: Keynote speakers for EP 2008 In-Reply-To: <200803261127.m2QBRFF0017179@theraft.openend.se> References: <47EA3032.7040909@canonical.com> <200803261127.m2QBRFF0017179@theraft.openend.se> Message-ID: On 26/03/2008, Laura Creighton wrote: > In a message of Wed, 26 Mar 2008 12:14:58 +0100, Steve Alexander writes: > >I want to propose two keynote speakers for EuroPython this year. Let me > >know what you think of this. > > > >The first is Karl Fogel, author of the Red Bean book on Subversion. His > >web site and weblog is at http://rants.org/ > > > >Karl's current passion is copyright reform, so I propose inviting him to > >give a keynote at EuroPython about what's up with copyright, and what we > >can do about it. > > > > > >The second is Van Lindberg. Van is a Python programmer and also a > >lawyer at a US law firm. He gave a keynote at PyCon this month, also > >about copyright, showing how it works, what it's for, its history and > >its problems. > > > >-- Steve > > > One of the greatest problems we face in Europe is overexposure to the > USA version of copyright. People here believe that the law, history, > and whatnot is the same as in the USA, when it is not. > > Through FFII I have many splendid connections with Europeans who are > working on copyright reform both Europe wide and in their own countries -- > in the Netherlands in particular things are getting very interesting > right now -- so if this is a topic we would like to persue, I think > it would work better as a panel discussion with experts from all over. > Having helped host 2 conferences discussing how to make reforms in > patents trademarks and copyrights in the last 16 months, I know > where to round up the usual suspects. The European position is quite different, but equally important. I think that we should have a copyright session (panel?) and leave the choice of speakers to Laura's judgement. John -- > > Laura > > _______________________________________________ > EuroPython mailing list > EuroPython at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/europython > From kirby.urner at gmail.com Thu Mar 27 15:54:59 2008 From: kirby.urner at gmail.com (kirby urner) Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2008 07:54:59 -0700 Subject: [EuroPython] Proposal: Keynote speakers for EP 2008 In-Reply-To: <20080327062615.GC14099@mindy> References: <47EA3032.7040909@canonical.com> <20080327062615.GC14099@mindy> Message-ID: On Wed, Mar 26, 2008 at 11:26 PM, Christian Theune wrote: << SNIP >> > > The second is Van Lindberg. Van is a Python programmer and also a > > lawyer at a US law firm. He gave a keynote at PyCon this month, also > > about copyright, showing how it works, what it's for, its history and > > its problems. > > I liked his presentation. In fact I thought it was the best keynote at PyCon > actually. > > Christian > I thought the talk was topical (well suited to a Pycon, though borderline not because not about Python per se, more OSCONish in flavor) and well prepared and delivered. I personally get impatient with the whole way economist-lawyers think (prisoners dilemma, tragedy of the commons, free rider problem), think economics needs competition from competing disciplines (general systems theory anyone?), think lawyers have been way too slow getting behind open source, are only doing it now because they have no choice (so now all of a sudden it "makes sense" whereas before we were "dot commies") but that's just my griping, not reflecting on the speaker per se. He also didn't seem all that aware of the ethnic subcultural aspects of patent, other intellectual property law, i.e. it's all pretty broken in the US and only idiot nations would attempt to carbon copy what's so abysmally not working, again my personal opinion. But he never claimed to be offering recipes for others to copy (we already have a surfeit of open source licenses). Kirby From mal at egenix.com Thu Mar 27 17:54:56 2008 From: mal at egenix.com (M.-A. Lemburg) Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2008 17:54:56 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Proposal: Keynote speakers for EP 2008 In-Reply-To: References: <47EA3032.7040909@canonical.com> <200803261127.m2QBRFF0017179@theraft.openend.se> Message-ID: <47EBD160.9050801@egenix.com> On 2008-03-27 12:56, John Pinner wrote: > On 26/03/2008, Laura Creighton wrote: >> In a message of Wed, 26 Mar 2008 12:14:58 +0100, Steve Alexander writes: >> >I want to propose two keynote speakers for EuroPython this year. Let me >> >know what you think of this. >> > >> >The first is Karl Fogel, author of the Red Bean book on Subversion. His >> >web site and weblog is at http://rants.org/ >> > >> >Karl's current passion is copyright reform, so I propose inviting him to >> >give a keynote at EuroPython about what's up with copyright, and what we >> >can do about it. >> > >> > >> >The second is Van Lindberg. Van is a Python programmer and also a >> >lawyer at a US law firm. He gave a keynote at PyCon this month, also >> >about copyright, showing how it works, what it's for, its history and >> >its problems. >> > >> >-- Steve >> >> >> One of the greatest problems we face in Europe is overexposure to the >> USA version of copyright. People here believe that the law, history, >> and whatnot is the same as in the USA, when it is not. >> >> Through FFII I have many splendid connections with Europeans who are >> working on copyright reform both Europe wide and in their own countries -- >> in the Netherlands in particular things are getting very interesting >> right now -- so if this is a topic we would like to persue, I think >> it would work better as a panel discussion with experts from all over. >> Having helped host 2 conferences discussing how to make reforms in >> patents trademarks and copyrights in the last 16 months, I know >> where to round up the usual suspects. > > The European position is quite different, but equally important. I > think that we should have a copyright session (panel?) and leave the > choice of speakers to Laura's judgement. +1 -- Marc-Andre Lemburg eGenix.com Professional Python Services directly from the Source (#1, Mar 27 2008) >>> Python/Zope Consulting and Support ... http://www.egenix.com/ >>> mxODBC.Zope.Database.Adapter ... http://zope.egenix.com/ >>> mxODBC, mxDateTime, mxTextTools ... http://python.egenix.com/ ________________________________________________________________________ :::: Try mxODBC.Zope.DA for Windows,Linux,Solaris,MacOSX for free ! :::: eGenix.com Software, Skills and Services GmbH Pastor-Loeh-Str.48 D-40764 Langenfeld, Germany. CEO Dipl.-Math. Marc-Andre Lemburg Registered at Amtsgericht Duesseldorf: HRB 46611 From mal at egenix.com Mon Mar 31 12:02:40 2008 From: mal at egenix.com (M.-A. Lemburg) Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2008 12:02:40 +0200 Subject: [EuroPython] Talk lengths Message-ID: <47F0B6C0.1030700@egenix.com> Andrew's article on this years PyCon: http://www.amk.ca/diary/2008/03/pycon_2008_a_look_back.html The comments on talk length are interesting... 30 minutes were considered too short. I found 30 minutes a bit short as well last time I did a talk in Vilnius. If you want to have discussions and more time switching between talks, then 45 minutes are a lot better, IMHO: 30 minutes talk, 10 minutes discussion, 5 minutes break and switching. What do others think ? -- Marc-Andre Lemburg eGenix.com Professional Python Services directly from the Source (#1, Mar 31 2008) >>> Python/Zope Consulting and Support ... http://www.egenix.com/ >>> mxODBC.Zope.Database.Adapter ... http://zope.egenix.com/ >>> mxODBC, mxDateTime, mxTextTools ... http://python.egenix.com/ ________________________________________________________________________ :::: Try mxODBC.Zope.DA for Windows,Linux,Solaris,MacOSX for free ! :::: eGenix.com Software, Skills and Services GmbH Pastor-Loeh-Str.48 D-40764 Langenfeld, Germany. CEO Dipl.-Math. Marc-Andre Lemburg Registered at Amtsgericht Duesseldorf: HRB 46611 From benno.luthiger at id.ethz.ch Mon Mar 31 14:24:21 2008 From: benno.luthiger at id.ethz.ch (Luthiger Stoll Benno) Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2008 14:24:21 +0200 Subject: [EuroPython] Talk lengths In-Reply-To: <47F0B6C0.1030700@egenix.com> References: <47F0B6C0.1030700@egenix.com> Message-ID: I strongly agree with this suggestion. I kind of suffered the flurry caused by people dropping into the room after time or leaving the room before time because of hurrying from room to room between the talks. (And, of course, I caused such disturbances as well when I had to switch). I got the experience that conferences are better organized if there is time to switch between the talks in different rooms. Therefore, a 45 minutes scheduling (including 5 minutes for switching) seems a very good solution to me. Regards, Benno ______________________________________ ETH Zurich Benno Luthiger IT Services WEP J 14, Weinbergstrasse 109 8092 Zurich, Switzerland Tel: +41 44 632 57 65 ______________________________________ -----Original Message----- From: europython-bounces at python.org [mailto:europython-bounces at python.org] On Behalf Of M.-A. Lemburg Sent: Montag, 31. M?rz 2008 12:03 To: EuroPython Mailing List Subject: [EuroPython] Talk lengths Andrew's article on this years PyCon: http://www.amk.ca/diary/2008/03/pycon_2008_a_look_back.html The comments on talk length are interesting... 30 minutes were considered too short. I found 30 minutes a bit short as well last time I did a talk in Vilnius. If you want to have discussions and more time switching between talks, then 45 minutes are a lot better, IMHO: 30 minutes talk, 10 minutes discussion, 5 minutes break and switching. What do others think ? -- Marc-Andre Lemburg eGenix.com Professional Python Services directly from the Source (#1, Mar 31 2008) >>> Python/Zope Consulting and Support ... http://www.egenix.com/ >>> mxODBC.Zope.Database.Adapter ... http://zope.egenix.com/ >>> mxODBC, mxDateTime, mxTextTools ... http://python.egenix.com/ ________________________________________________________________________ :::: Try mxODBC.Zope.DA for Windows,Linux,Solaris,MacOSX for free ! :::: eGenix.com Software, Skills and Services GmbH Pastor-Loeh-Str.48 D-40764 Langenfeld, Germany. CEO Dipl.-Math. Marc-Andre Lemburg Registered at Amtsgericht Duesseldorf: HRB 46611 _______________________________________________ EuroPython mailing list EuroPython at python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/europython From david at boddie.org.uk Mon Mar 31 15:21:40 2008 From: david at boddie.org.uk (David Boddie) Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2008 15:21:40 +0200 Subject: [EuroPython] Talk lengths Message-ID: <200803311521.40068.david@boddie.org.uk> On Mon Mar 31 12:02:40 CEST 2008, M.-A. Lemburg wrote: > The comments on talk length are interesting... 30 minutes were > considered too short. I found 30 minutes a bit short as well > last time I did a talk in Vilnius. If you want to have discussions > and more time switching between talks, then 45 minutes are a lot > better, IMHO: 30 minutes talk, 10 minutes discussion, 5 minutes break > and switching. This topic came up in one of the IRC meetings: http://wiki.python.org/moin/EuroPython/2008/IRCMeetings/IRCMeeting6 For simplicity, we decided that we should keep the 30 vs. 60 minute slots and make 45 minute sessions fill the rest of the time with discussion. The idea being that in-depth talks could run to around 45 minutes with 15 minutes for questions and demos - the longer the talk, the more time you have to leave for questions. That's the theory, at least. Maybe 45 minutes slots would work, but I wouldn't want to schedule 45 minute talks alongside 30 minute ones. David