From nicolas.pettiaux@ael.be Tue Apr 1 08:45:37 2003 From: nicolas.pettiaux@ael.be (Nicolas Pettiaux) Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2003 10:45:37 +0200 Subject: [EuroPython] Remove "Zope in Public administration" Message-ID: <200304011045.37486.nicolas.pettiaux@ael.be> Dear Tom, As suggested by Paul some weeks ago, I propose to suppress the track "Zope in public administration". We don't think it makes sense to keep it and make it a special track in the present conference. As well, I don't have the time to be its champion. Please remove it from http://www.europython.org/sessions/descriptions Thanks, Nicolas -- Nicolas Pettiaux From Tom Deprez" Message-ID: <006f01c2f898$a57b3db0$8901a8c0@skullsplitter> Hi Nicolas, No problem, but as Paul proposed, he coördinates the track issues and I rather leave it up to him to change that information. Of course I can change it. But what's been the concensus? Does it change from Python/Zope in Public Administrations To Python in Public Administrations Are you still the chairman? Regards, Tom Nicolas Pettiaux wrote: > Dear Tom, > > As suggested by Paul some weeks ago, I propose to suppress the track > "Zope in public administration". > > We don't think it makes sense to keep it and make it a special track > in the present conference. As well, I don't have the time to be its > champion. > > Please remove it from http://www.europython.org/sessions/descriptions > > Thanks, > > Nicolas From thomas@reulbach.com Wed Apr 2 07:38:23 2003 From: thomas@reulbach.com (Thomas Reulbach) Date: Wed, 02 Apr 2003 09:38:23 +0200 Subject: [EuroPython] Fwd: info@europython.org; Zope in Public Administration Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20030402093811.024c9990@pop.puretec.de> >Date: Wed, 02 Apr 2003 09:36:55 +0200 >To: tom@aragne.com >From: Thomas Reulbach >Subject: info@europython.org; Zope in Public Administration > >Hi Tom, > >I guess we can easily set up an info@europython.org address. I can enter >up to three different mx entries for amaze to take the further handling (I >just need the entries they prefer). I already offered this when I changed >dns entries some months ago. > >I'd also like to propose a talk "Zope in Public Administration" (30 Min.) >I would like to give at the conference. I would also help gathering a list >of people interested in that topic during the conference. This talk would >differ significantly from the german talk I gave last saturday afternoon >at DZUG2003 in Berlin. I guess this talk could also well fit in the >Python/Zope in Business track if there is no seperate track for Zope in >Public Administration and Education. I'd be interested in both fields but >you are probably right that there won't be enough talks to make a complete >separate track for that. > >Looking forward :-) > >thomas From mwh@python.net Wed Apr 2 14:55:40 2003 From: mwh@python.net (Michael Hudson) Date: Wed, 02 Apr 2003 15:55:40 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] [Moshe Zadka ] Possible Tutorial Subjects Message-ID: <2mbrzprlsj.fsf@starship.python.net> --=-=-= Moshe tried to send this to the list, but something ate it. Let me try... --=-=-= Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-path: Envelope-to: mwh@python.net Delivery-date: Wed, 02 Apr 2003 09:53:14 -0500 Received: from line104-47.adsl.actcom.co.il ([192.117.104.47] helo=green.zadka.com) by starship.python.net with smtp (Exim 4.10) id 190jbW-0006Tf-00 for mwh@python.net; Wed, 02 Apr 2003 09:52:43 -0500 Received: (qmail 30767 invoked by uid 1000); 2 Apr 2003 14:52:05 -0000 Date: 2 Apr 2003 14:52:05 -0000 Message-ID: <20030402145205.30766.qmail@green.zadka.com> X-Mailer: PMS 0.2.19 (http://pythonms.sourceforge.net) From: Moshe Zadka Subject: Possible Tutorial Subjects To: mwh@python.net X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=SIGNATURE_SHORT_DENSE,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01 X-Spam-Level: MIME-Version: 1.0 It might be a good idea to put up a list of "topics for tutorials" and let people claim those topics: Tutorial Topics =============== * GUI * Text parsing * Threads * Win32 * Mac+Python * XML * Writing web clients Of course, people can suggest variants, or other topics. This is just a list of suggestions. -- Moshe Zadka -- http://moshez.org/ Buffy: I don't like you hanging out with someone that... short. Riley: Yeah, a lot of young people nowadays are experimenting with shortness. --=-=-= -- Or here's an even simpler indicator of how much C++ sucks: Print out the C++ Public Review Document. Have someone hold it about three feet above your head and then drop it. Thus you will be enlightened. -- Thant Tessman --=-=-=-- From rev_anna_r@yahoo.com Wed Apr 2 16:55:34 2003 From: rev_anna_r@yahoo.com (Anna Ravenscroft) Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2003 08:55:34 -0800 (PST) Subject: [EuroPython] [Moshe Zadka ] Possible Tutorial Subjects In-Reply-To: <2mbrzprlsj.fsf@starship.python.net> Message-ID: <20030402165534.74819.qmail@web12301.mail.yahoo.com> A page for attendees to post requests for presentations and tutorials has been added to the wiki. http://www.europython.org/wiki/PresentationsandTutorials Anna __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - File online, calculators, forms, and more http://tax.yahoo.com From mal@lemburg.com Fri Apr 4 17:30:03 2003 From: mal@lemburg.com (M.-A. Lemburg) Date: Fri, 04 Apr 2003 19:30:03 +0200 Subject: [EuroPython] Talk database Message-ID: <3E8DC11B.4060405@lemburg.com> It seems that all talks submitted using the CFP form get registered as "Tutorial". Looks like a bug to me... If possible, it would be helpful to have the Admin interface provide a select box which lets the track chairmen select their track and then only work on those talks. -- Marc-Andre Lemburg eGenix.com Professional Python Software directly from the Source (#1, Apr 04 2003) >>> Python/Zope Products & Consulting ... http://www.egenix.com/ >>> mxODBC, mxDateTime, mxTextTools ... http://python.egenix.com/ ________________________________________________________________________ EuroPython 2003, Charleroi, Belgium: 81 days left From Tom Deprez" Message-ID: <006601c2fad7$332412f0$8901a8c0@skullsplitter> Hi Joachim, Can you look at these two issues? Thanks, Tom. M.-A. Lemburg wrote: > It seems that all talks submitted using the CFP form get registered > as "Tutorial". Looks like a bug to me... > > If possible, it would be helpful to have the Admin interface > provide a select box which lets the track chairmen select their > track and then only work on those talks. From js@aixtraware.de Sat Apr 5 10:28:52 2003 From: js@aixtraware.de (Joachim Schmitz) Date: Sat, 05 Apr 2003 10:28:52 +0000 Subject: [EuroPython] Talk database In-Reply-To: <3E8DC11B.4060405@lemburg.com> References: <3E8DC11B.4060405@lemburg.com> Message-ID: <3E8EAFE4.9000505@aixtraware.de> M.-A. Lemburg wrote: > It seems that all talks submitted using the CFP form get registered > as "Tutorial". Looks like a bug to me... not all, only those which were entered before we changed some Track-keys It is fixed now. >=20 > If possible, it would be helpful to have the Admin interface > provide a select box which lets the track chairmen select their > track and then only work on those talks. >=20 Do you like it as it is now ? --=20 Mit freundlichen Gr=FC=DFen Joachim Schmitz -------------------------------------------------------------------- AixtraWare Ingenieurb=FCro f=FCr Internetanwendungen Telefon: +49-2464-8851, FAX: +49-2464-905163 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From mal@lemburg.com Sat Apr 5 10:35:40 2003 From: mal@lemburg.com (M.-A. Lemburg) Date: Sat, 05 Apr 2003 12:35:40 +0200 Subject: [EuroPython] Talk database In-Reply-To: <3E8EAFE4.9000505@aixtraware.de> References: <3E8DC11B.4060405@lemburg.com> <3E8EAFE4.9000505@aixtraware.de> Message-ID: <3E8EB17C.70408@lemburg.com> Joachim Schmitz wrote: > M.-A. Lemburg wrote: > >> It seems that all talks submitted using the CFP form get registered >> as "Tutorial". Looks like a bug to me... > > not all, only those which were entered before we changed some Track-keys > It is fixed now. Ah, ok. >> If possible, it would be helpful to have the Admin interface >> provide a select box which lets the track chairmen select their >> track and then only work on those talks. >> > > Do you like it as it is now ? Yes. Thanks, -- Marc-Andre Lemburg eGenix.com Professional Python Software directly from the Source (#1, Apr 05 2003) >>> Python/Zope Products & Consulting ... http://www.egenix.com/ >>> mxODBC, mxDateTime, mxTextTools ... http://python.egenix.com/ ________________________________________________________________________ EuroPython 2003, Charleroi, Belgium: 80 days left From lac@strakt.com Mon Apr 7 12:30:55 2003 From: lac@strakt.com (Laura Creighton) Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2003 13:30:55 +0200 Subject: [EuroPython] [Moshe Zadka ] Possible Tutorial Subjects In-Reply-To: Message from Michael Hudson of "Wed, 02 Apr 2003 15:55:40 BST." <2mbrzprlsj.fsf@starship.python.net> References: <2mbrzprlsj.fsf@starship.python.net> Message-ID: <200304071130.h37BUtnc017885@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> I am currently discussing the possibility of a PyQT tutorial with Boudewijn Rempt. Laura (just back from Python-UK) From tom.deprez@uz.kuleuven.ac.be Mon Apr 7 17:23:30 2003 From: tom.deprez@uz.kuleuven.ac.be (Tom Deprez) Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 18:23:30 +0200 Subject: [EuroPython] Test Message-ID: <019a01c2fd22$078f4360$b36da8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> Test From mwh@python.net Mon Apr 7 17:18:59 2003 From: mwh@python.net (Michael Hudson) Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2003 17:18:59 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] this is a test Message-ID: <2m65pqqo0c.fsf@starship.python.net> There is no PSU. -- 8. A programming language is low level when its programs require attention to the irrelevant. -- Alan Perlis, http://www.cs.yale.edu/homes/perlis-alan/quotes.html From Tom Deprez" Ignore, testing. From gherman@darwin.in-berlin.de Wed Apr 9 16:31:28 2003 From: gherman@darwin.in-berlin.de (Dinu Gherman) Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2003 17:31:28 +0200 Subject: [EuroPython] Test, please ignore! Message-ID: <55010926-6AA0-11D7-AA50-00039345C610@darwin.in-berlin.de> Test, please ignore! Dinu From mwh@python.net Mon Apr 7 17:18:59 2003 From: mwh@python.net (Michael Hudson) Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2003 17:18:59 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] this is a test Message-ID: <2m65pqqo0c.fsf@starship.python.net> There is no PSU. -- 8. A programming language is low level when its programs require attention to the irrelevant. -- Alan Perlis, http://www.cs.yale.edu/homes/perlis-alan/quotes.html From mwh@python.net Mon Apr 14 19:59:15 2003 From: mwh@python.net (Michael Hudson) Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 19:59:15 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] this is a test In-Reply-To: <2m65pqqo0c.fsf@starship.python.net> (Michael Hudson's message of "Mon, 07 Apr 2003 17:18:59 +0100") References: <2m65pqqo0c.fsf@starship.python.net> Message-ID: <2mn0isoqgs.fsf@starship.python.net> Michael Hudson writes: > There is no PSU. Seeing as this email has now confused two people, I would publically like to blame Martijn for it :-) I sent it a week ago when we were testing the info@europython.org address. It got held up for moderation and presumably he just recently approved it to be sent on to the test. Please ignore. Cheers, M. -- I have a cat, so I know that when she digs her very sharp claws into my chest or stomach it's really a sign of affection, but I don't see any reason for programming languages to show affection with pain. -- Erik Naggum, comp.lang.lisp From tom@aragne.com Wed Apr 16 10:43:41 2003 From: tom@aragne.com (Tom Deprez) Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 11:43:41 +0200 Subject: [EuroPython] For everybody Message-ID: <00ea01c303fc$aa27e8d0$b36da8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> Hi, Yesterday, I've been at Charleroi. Denis (for those who don't know, the local organiser (PS3B;Argane) of last year and this year), told me that everything what we had last year will be there this year as well: Conference building, projectors, catering, .... So this is something we don't have to worry about (in case people did). I've contacted Joachim some days ago and he told me that the online-registration could be available before Eastern. So, this is good new as well. From the moment Joachim has the link ready, we can start with the online registration, which is soon. Now, I'm a little bit sceptic however on the fact if there is enough interest for a second EuroPython conference. Not many people have shown their interest in giving a talk. If it stays like this, their won't be a conference (my opinion). I would like to hear from the track chair people if there is indeed a lack of interest. If they think they can change it. If they think they can attrack people for giving a talk at the conference. So that EuroPython can provide a good balanced program to the visitors Keep in mind this is a community effort. It is the community who drives the conference. A lot of people give a helping hand to guide the conference, but at the end it is still the community which makes the difference. For those who are interested in giving a talk: http://www.europython.org/sessions/cft Thanks in advance, Tom. From Nicolas.Chauvat@logilab.fr Wed Apr 16 10:49:41 2003 From: Nicolas.Chauvat@logilab.fr (Nicolas Chauvat) Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 11:49:41 +0200 Subject: [EuroPython] For everybody In-Reply-To: <00ea01c303fc$aa27e8d0$b36da8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> References: <00ea01c303fc$aa27e8d0$b36da8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> Message-ID: <20030416094941.GO2275@logilab.fr> On Wed, Apr 16, 2003 at 11:43:41AM +0200, Tom Deprez wrote: > Now, I'm a little bit sceptic however on the fact if there is enough > interest for a second EuroPython conference. Not many people have shown > their interest in giving a talk. If it stays like this, their won't be a > conference (my opinion). I would like to hear from the track chair people if > there is indeed a lack of interest. I have already accepted four talks and will be uploading the slides to the web site as soon as I get a chance. Python in Science and Industry is on track... -- Nicolas Chauvat http://www.logilab.com - "Mais où est donc Ornicar ?" - LOGILAB, Paris (France) From mwh@python.net Wed Apr 16 11:38:54 2003 From: mwh@python.net (Michael Hudson) Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 11:38:54 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] For everybody In-Reply-To: <00ea01c303fc$aa27e8d0$b36da8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> ("Tom Deprez"'s message of "Wed, 16 Apr 2003 11:43:41 +0200") References: <00ea01c303fc$aa27e8d0$b36da8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> Message-ID: <2mbrz6pw01.fsf@starship.python.net> "Tom Deprez" writes: > Hi, > > Yesterday, I've been at Charleroi. Denis (for those who don't know, the > local organiser (PS3B;Argane) of last year and this year), told me that > everything what we had last year will be there this year as well: Conference > building, projectors, catering, .... So this is something we don't have to > worry about (in case people did). > > I've contacted Joachim some days ago and he told me that the > online-registration could be available before Eastern. So, this is good new > as well. From the moment Joachim has the link ready, we can start with the > online registration, which is soon. Yay! > Now, I'm a little bit sceptic however on the fact if there is enough > interest for a second EuroPython conference. Not many people have shown > their interest in giving a talk. If it stays like this, their won't be a > conference (my opinion). I would like to hear from the track chair people if > there is indeed a lack of interest. If they think they can change it. If > they think they can attrack people for giving a talk at the conference. So > that EuroPython can provide a good balanced program to the visitors My track (Python language) is doing OK. Not everyone who's promised me a talk has signed up on the website yet -- it's probably traditional to leave these things to the last minute. Though we do only have three days until the official deadline... we're probably going to have to push that back a week or so. Hopefully we can spam around the announcement of the delay widely enough to shake a few more talks out of people. > Keep in mind this is a community effort. It is the community who drives the > conference. A lot of people give a helping hand to guide the conference, but > at the end it is still the community which makes the difference. Like he said! Cheers, M. -- I'm sorry, was my bias showing again? :-) -- William Tanksley, 13 May 2000 From gherman@darwin.in-berlin.de Wed Apr 16 11:46:14 2003 From: gherman@darwin.in-berlin.de (Dinu Gherman) Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 12:46:14 +0200 Subject: [EuroPython] For everybody In-Reply-To: <00ea01c303fc$aa27e8d0$b36da8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> Message-ID: Tom Deprez: > Now, I'm a little bit sceptic however on the fact if there is enough > interest for a second EuroPython conference. Not many people have shown > their interest in giving a talk. If it stays like this, their won't be > a > conference (my opinion). I would like to hear from the track chair > people if > there is indeed a lack of interest. If they think they can change it. > If > they think they can attrack people for giving a talk at the > conference. So > that EuroPython can provide a good balanced program to the visitors Just added one more proposal to the app track... Dinu -- Dinu C. Gherman ...................................................................... http://www.guardian.co.uk/cartoons/stevebell/0,7371,937829,00.html From mal@lemburg.com Wed Apr 16 12:00:37 2003 From: mal@lemburg.com (M.-A. Lemburg) Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 13:00:37 +0200 Subject: [EuroPython] For everybody In-Reply-To: <00ea01c303fc$aa27e8d0$b36da8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> References: <00ea01c303fc$aa27e8d0$b36da8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> Message-ID: <3E9D37D5.5010301@lemburg.com> Tom Deprez wrote: > Hi, > > Yesterday, I've been at Charleroi. Denis (for those who don't know, the > local organiser (PS3B;Argane) of last year and this year), told me that > everything what we had last year will be there this year as well: Conference > building, projectors, catering, .... So this is something we don't have to > worry about (in case people did). Great :-) > I've contacted Joachim some days ago and he told me that the > online-registration could be available before Eastern. So, this is good new > as well. From the moment Joachim has the link ready, we can start with the > online registration, which is soon. Cool. Have the entry fees been finalized yet ? > Now, I'm a little bit sceptic however on the fact if there is enough > interest for a second EuroPython conference. Not many people have shown > their interest in giving a talk. If it stays like this, their won't be a > conference (my opinion). I would like to hear from the track chair people if > there is indeed a lack of interest. If they think they can change it. If > they think they can attrack people for giving a talk at the conference. So > that EuroPython can provide a good balanced program to the visitors The Business Track is coming along nicely. Tim and I will try to get more people interested, but there's no worry in getting enough talks for the track. One question: the track submission form allows registering talks for tracks which were cancelled, e.g. the web services one. I suppose the track chairmen can simply "grab" talks for these tracks an stick them on their track, right ? -- Marc-Andre Lemburg eGenix.com Professional Python Software directly from the Source (#1, Apr 16 2003) >>> Python/Zope Products & Consulting ... http://www.egenix.com/ >>> mxODBC, mxDateTime, mxTextTools ... http://python.egenix.com/ ________________________________________________________________________ EuroPython 2003, Charleroi, Belgium: 69 days left From tom@aragne.com Wed Apr 16 12:32:42 2003 From: tom@aragne.com (Tom Deprez) Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 13:32:42 +0200 Subject: [EuroPython] For everybody References: <00ea01c303fc$aa27e8d0$b36da8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> <3E9D37D5.5010301@lemburg.com> Message-ID: <014a01c3040b$e4faf830$b36da8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> M.-A. Lemburg wrote: > Tom Deprez wrote: >> Hi, >> >> Yesterday, I've been at Charleroi. Denis (for those who don't know, >> the local organiser (PS3B;Argane) of last year and this year), told >> me that everything what we had last year will be there this year as >> well: Conference building, projectors, catering, .... So this is >> something we don't have to worry about (in case people did). > > Great :-) > >> I've contacted Joachim some days ago and he told me that the >> online-registration could be available before Eastern. So, this is >> good new as well. From the moment Joachim has the link ready, we can >> start with the online registration, which is soon. > > Cool. Have the entry fees been finalized yet ? Yes, see also news at europython :-) >> Now, I'm a little bit sceptic however on the fact if there is enough >> interest for a second EuroPython conference. Not many people have >> shown their interest in giving a talk. If it stays like this, their >> won't be a conference (my opinion). I would like to hear from the >> track chair people if there is indeed a lack of interest. If they >> think they can change it. If they think they can attrack people for >> giving a talk at the conference. So that EuroPython can provide a >> good balanced program to the visitors > > The Business Track is coming along nicely. Tim and I will try to > get more people interested, but there's no worry in getting enough > talks for the track. > > One question: the track submission form allows registering talks > for tracks which were cancelled, e.g. the web services one. I > suppose the track chairmen can simply "grab" talks for these > tracks an stick them on their track, right ? Damn, this keeps following us. I'll see what I can do about it. Anyhow, Track Chairman can still switch talks. As I see it: People who enter a talk, propose a track. Track Chairman have the authority to move them. Tom. From andy@reportlab.com Wed Apr 16 12:40:56 2003 From: andy@reportlab.com (Andy Robinson) Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 12:40:56 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] For everybody In-Reply-To: <00ea01c303fc$aa27e8d0$b36da8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> Message-ID: > Now, I'm a little bit sceptic however on the fact if there is enough > interest for a second EuroPython conference. Not many > people have shown > their interest in giving a talk. If it stays like this, > their won't be a > conference (my opinion). I would like to hear from the > track chair people if > there is indeed a lack of interest. If they think they can > change it. If > they think they can attrack people for giving a talk at the > conference. So > that EuroPython can provide a good balanced program to the visitors I will certainly give one full tutorial as promised and have material for 3-4 other things (talks, BOFs etc). Another conference, 2 business trips and an illness just mean I have not had time to upload talk proposals and well-thought-out abstracts. Expect this over Easter. - Andy Robinson From andy@reportlab.com Wed Apr 16 13:03:57 2003 From: andy@reportlab.com (Andy Robinson) Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 13:03:57 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] EPC Conference Brochure Builder Message-ID: I confirmed to Tom earlier that we would help with this again, but here's some more detailed thoughts. For those who missed it, we did a 'dynamic programme' on the web weher you could select tracks of interest and "build" an A4 PDF conference booklet to read on the way. This saved the need to print programs. It's here: http://server.reportlab.com/cgi-bin/epc_brochure.py ReportLab will be making this a major promotion of ours and turning it into a standard "kit"; the idea is to go through alpha at EPC and beta at OSCON, then use it at IT industry events. It will be stable, the 'alpha' and 'beta' apply more to how data and content gets in. We want to make something which will work for all events and not just EuroPython. This means trying to insulate ourselves from all the frantic data and editorial issues, and letting the right people manage the content. (I don't mind us helping with this aspect for EPC, but not forever). We propose to define a small, standard database schema on our own servers for talks and speakers, and a web form to request materials (which could be framesettable or stylable for the event, so it does not look like reportlab.com). Someone (could be us, could be Joachim) can adapt last year's export script to pump in all the speaker, talk and timetable data, perhaps each night or on demand. There will also be a standard mechanism to define the content - either tables and web forms or some file which can be edited - which lets you define a sequence of static PDF pages and dynamic stuff. So, the 'editor' will be able to create static pages for the cover, welcome letter, how-to-get-there etc and specify their order in a data-driven way without programming. Hopefully Viny can then see his new covers in place in seconds :-) We are also having a big push on a graphic "timetable widget" which can "zoom in", so you could have the whole event at a glance, or a detailed breakdown of lighting talks. This will be available as dynamic GIF/PNG for the web, changing as the database updates, as PDF timetables within the brochure, or even as A2 or A1 single sheets as requested. So, I hope we can save Tom from manually redoing big timetables the night before. This is obviously helpful on site as late timetable changes, lightning talks, BOFS etc can all be planned and notices 'republished' as usual. The work on this will start in early May and probably take about 2 weeks before it is up for review. The main issues for me now are to establish who will do what. - who is the "editor" who makes content decisions, supplies welcome letter text etc? (should be easy this year as we basically reuse as much as possible) - is it still the same artist? Will we reuse the nice cover? - once the dynamic programs are up, can the conference site cross-refer to ours for images and timetables while keeping the feeling of (e.g. - who will be able to export data from the Zope server into our schema, when and how often? - any nice suggestions for content, other than talks and interviews? Discussion and feeback welcome for the next 2 weeks! After that we'll get on with it.. Best Regards, Andy Robinson ReportLab From tom@aragne.com Wed Apr 16 14:08:34 2003 From: tom@aragne.com (Tom Deprez) Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 15:08:34 +0200 Subject: [EuroPython] EPC Conference Brochure Builder References: Message-ID: <01db01c30419$49a41750$b36da8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> Hi Andy, I like the idea a lot. I think it will be embraced by a lot of conferences :-) > The work on this will start in early May and probably > take about 2 weeks before it is up for review. The > main issues for me now are to establish who will > do what. > - who is the "editor" who makes content decisions, > supplies welcome letter text etc? I hope somebody volunteers for this. I myself am not that a good writer. I can write something, based on the text we made last year. But if there are volunteers with experience (or those who just like to do it), do jump in this opportunity > (should be easy this year as we basically reuse as > much as possible) Yes, my idea as well. Reuse as much as possible. > - is it still the same artist? Will we reuse the nice cover? Yes, we can still contact Vincent for it. I'll ask him to make one with the date of this year. > - once the dynamic programs are up, can the conference > site cross-refer to ours for images and timetables > while keeping the feeling of > (e.g. src="http://server.reportlab.com/conferences/epc2003/timtables/day1.pn > g"> > - who will be able to export data from the Zope > server into our schema, when and how often? Since Joachim made the database schema at the EP2002 and EPC2003 site, I think it's best we contact him about this. (I'll write a mail to Joachim and you so things can be discussed). > - any nice suggestions for content, other than > talks and interviews? mmm, yes, no interviews this year... or are there some people who want to do an interview with someone? Just go ahead! > Discussion and feeback welcome for the next 2 weeks! Doing my best > After that we'll get on with it.. Thanks for your mail, Regards, Tom. From huima@huima.net Wed Apr 16 17:16:06 2003 From: huima@huima.net (Heimo Laukkanen) Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 17:16:06 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Re: EuroPython digest, Vol 1 #355 - 9 msgs In-Reply-To: <20030416160014.25732.3140.Mailman@mail.python.org> References: <20030416160014.25732.3140.Mailman@mail.python.org> Message-ID: <3E9D81C6.9090505@huima.net> > Now, I'm a little bit sceptic however on the fact if there is enough > interest for a second EuroPython conference. Not many people have shown > their interest in giving a talk. If it stays like this, their won't be a > conference (my opinion). I would like to hear from the track chair people if > there is indeed a lack of interest. If they think they can change it. If > they think they can attrack people for giving a talk at the conference. So > that EuroPython can provide a good balanced program to the visitors Zope track is also getting along. I've now contacted people one-to-one ( or one-to-many ) and have confirmed a few talks about Zope 3 and Plone. We will see if it would be possible to have the Plone 1.1 release celebration in Charleroi - so that would also generate nice interest, however this requires that we have the time to make the proper propaganda in advance... and I'm working on to confirm as soon as possible what we have and can have. But from my point of view - we will have a program. Question is will we have time to raise the awareness, interest and get people to come. -huima From tom@aragne.com Wed Apr 16 17:24:43 2003 From: tom@aragne.com (Tom Deprez) Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 18:24:43 +0200 Subject: [EuroPython] Re: EuroPython digest, Vol 1 #355 - 9 msgs References: <20030416160014.25732.3140.Mailman@mail.python.org> <3E9D81C6.9090505@huima.net> Message-ID: <038201c30434$b025bea0$b36da8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> > Question is will we have time to raise the awareness, interest and get people to come. That's up to the community. If everybody talks about it, with each contact they have, then it is already some nice awareness. If people are registered on some lists, they can announce it there as well. I've asked Vincent to make some banners (like last year), which people can put on sites, etc. Tom. From mvm@brutele.be Thu Apr 17 14:23:41 2003 From: mvm@brutele.be (vin) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 15:23:41 +0200 Subject: [EuroPython] Re: EuroPython 2003 References: <01d301c30418$82c412c0$b36da8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> <000d01c30414$157bd580$670211ac@brutele> <024201c30427$f7196c60$b36da8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> Message-ID: <000701c304e4$907be880$670211ac@brutele> I prepare the Gadgets of "EuroPython 2003". And I have put the address of the conference and a map link on the Europ Map : http://www.europython.org/information/travel CEME Rue des Français, 147 6020 Dampremy Tel : 0032 71 23 98 50 See you soon, Vincent Maton _________________________________ .:: Web Designer ::. .:: www.aragne.com ::. .:: www.mvmstudio.be ::. .:: www.europython.org ::. From magnus@thinkware.se Thu Apr 17 14:51:57 2003 From: magnus@thinkware.se (Magnus =?iso-8859-1?Q?Lyck=E5?=) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 15:51:57 +0200 Subject: [EuroPython] www.europython.org gives an impression of imminent death... In-Reply-To: References: <00ea01c303fc$aa27e8d0$b36da8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20030417153508.00b9c250@www.thinkware.se> I'm very happy to hear that things are happening after all, but please, please, pretty please update the website ASAP! I go to www.europython.org and check out the web site. If I look under "brochure" I see 2002. If I look at tracks, it seems to be current, but I can't see any track contents. If I look at talks, I see nothing. If I look under presentations I see nothing. There is no "timetable". After all, it's just a little more than two months left, and people have to make plans. If I had not been on this mailing list, I had been certain that EuroPython 2003 was a doomed to flop or be cancelled. Considering todays mail, it seems that it isn't this bad, but that is certainly the expression the website gives... -- Magnus Lycka, magnus@thinkware.se Thinkware AB, www.thinkware.se From andy@reportlab.com Thu Apr 17 15:36:42 2003 From: andy@reportlab.com (Andy Robinson) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 15:36:42 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] EPC Conference Brochure Builder In-Reply-To: <01db01c30419$49a41750$b36da8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> Message-ID: > Yes, we can still contact Vincent for it. I'll ask him to > make one with the > date of this year. OK, there's plenty of time and I would like to liaise with him. 1.2Mb out of the 1.5Mb brochure was the cover, and I am sure we can get it down to 200k with some careful investigation (and no loss of quality). Likewise, the size of the adverts is important. With some lead time we can make it fast, sharp and light. > mmm, yes, no interviews this year... or are there some > people who want to do > an interview with someone? Just go ahead! What we'll do is 'suggest' a strict HTML subset with about 5 tags and accept any content in that form. Thanks, Andy From tom@aragne.com Thu Apr 17 16:23:01 2003 From: tom@aragne.com (Tom Deprez) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 17:23:01 +0200 Subject: [Tom] [EuroPython] www.europython.org gives an impression of imminent death... References: <00ea01c303fc$aa27e8d0$b36da8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> <5.2.1.1.0.20030417153508.00b9c250@www.thinkware.se> Message-ID: <02f801c304f5$3c00f460$b36da8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> Magnus Lyckå wrote: > I'm very happy to hear that things are happening after all, > but please, please, pretty please update the website ASAP! > > I go to www.europython.org and check out the web site. If > I look under "brochure" I see 2002. The brochure of 2002 has still to be made. If I look at tracks, it > seems to be current, but I can't see any track contents. If > I look at talks, I see nothing. If I look under presentations > I see nothing. There is no "timetable". Normal, since the talks are still floating in and the chairman can only start on the time table after the deadline of talks... > After all, it's just a little more than two months left, and > people have to make plans. If I had not been on this mailing > list, I had been certain that EuroPython 2003 was a doomed to > flop or be cancelled. > > Considering todays mail, it seems that it isn't this bad, but > that is certainly the expression the website gives... > > > > _______________________________________________ > EuroPython mailing list > EuroPython@python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/europython From mwh@python.net Thu Apr 17 16:57:09 2003 From: mwh@python.net (Michael Hudson) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 16:57:09 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] www.europython.org gives an impression of imminent death... In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.0.20030417153508.00b9c250@www.thinkware.se> (Magnus =?iso-8859-1?q?Lyck=E5's?= message of "Thu, 17 Apr 2003 15:51:57 +0200") References: <00ea01c303fc$aa27e8d0$b36da8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> <5.2.1.1.0.20030417153508.00b9c250@www.thinkware.se> Message-ID: <2m65pdxgkq.fsf@starship.python.net> Magnus Lyck=E5 writes: > I'm very happy to hear that things are happening after all, > but please, please, pretty please update the website ASAP! Do you have time to help us with that? Cheers, M. --=20 I would hereby duly point you at the website for the current pedal powered submarine world underwater speed record, except I've lost the URL. -- Callas, cam.misc From Tom Deprez" <000d01c30414$157bd580$670211ac@brutele> <024201c30427$f7196c60$b36da8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> <000701c304e4$907be880$670211ac@brutele> Message-ID: <00b001c30511$6a043770$8901a8c0@skullsplitter> Hi Vin, >I prepare the Gadgets of "EuroPython 2003". great, thanks! Also think on the banners (which will be usefull for other people to place on the site) > And I have put the address of the conference > and a map link on the Europ Map : > http://www.europython.org/information/travel > > CEME > Rue des Français, 147 > 6020 Dampremy > Tel : 0032 71 23 98 50 > Ah, good! Thanks! Regards, Tom. From magnus@thinkware.se Thu Apr 17 20:57:44 2003 From: magnus@thinkware.se (Magnus =?iso-8859-1?Q?Lyck=E5?=) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 21:57:44 +0200 Subject: [EuroPython] www.europython.org gives an impression of imminent death... In-Reply-To: <2m65pdxgkq.fsf@starship.python.net> References: <5.2.1.1.0.20030417153508.00b9c250@www.thinkware.se> <00ea01c303fc$aa27e8d0$b36da8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> <5.2.1.1.0.20030417153508.00b9c250@www.thinkware.se> Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20030417203322.00bd6a90@www.thinkware.se> At 16:57 2003-04-17 +0100, Michael Hudson wrote: >Magnus Lyck=E5 writes: > > > I'm very happy to hear that things are happening after all, > > but please, please, pretty please update the website ASAP! > >Do you have time to help us with that? Not really.. :( I just hoped to be able to be a visitor this time. Sorry. I shouldn't really be following this thread... I'm seriously behind on more pressing stuff and my peeking in this mailing list is really just my subconsious attempts to avoid doing stuff I have to do. (Excel and VBA. Yuck!) I do hope that this will fly though, and it would be sad if too few people attend because they didn't know of the good content... If nothing else is done, I hope someone can just add a clear notice that the content for 2003 is expected to appear on the site at some particular date (which is soon). Marking everything on a search page, doing a search and getting "Sorry, none of the talks fulfilled to your search criteria" sounds bad, even if it continues with "The talks you are looking for are still being approved by the selection committee." The visitor is completely left in the dark! I don't know how this works, I guessed that any tutorials or speeches that are approved by the track manager would magically appear in the web site through some Plone feature. If that's true, I hope the track managers will approve their talks and tutorials as soon as possible. If there are items that are unclear, I'd rather see a listing of items that are likely to happen, marked as "preliminary" than nothing at all... See you all in Charleroi (I hope). /Magnus -- Magnus Lycka (It's really Lyckå), magnus@thinkware.se Thinkware AB, Sweden, www.thinkware.se I code Python ~ The shortest path from thought to working program=20 From tom@aragne.com Fri Apr 18 11:15:14 2003 From: tom@aragne.com (Tom Deprez) Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 12:15:14 +0200 Subject: [EuroPython] Python Success Stories on europython.org? Message-ID: <00d601c30593$670b6fc0$b36da8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> Hi all, Your opinion? Regards, Tom. > Hi, Tom, > > Someone suggested to me that it would be nice to content franchise > the Python Success Stories collection to www.europython.org: > > http://pythonology.org/success > > Would you be interested in doing this? It's quite easy to set up > using this Web service: > > http://pythonology.org/success&help=1 > > We're trying to get as much exposure for these stories as possible, > and of course they also help to convince people to try Python and > perhaps to go to things like EuroPython. > > Let me know what you think, or if I should be contacting someone > else about this (I got your email from the bottom of the home page). > > Thanks! > > - Stephan > > From tom@aragne.com Fri Apr 18 11:25:44 2003 From: tom@aragne.com (Tom Deprez) Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 12:25:44 +0200 Subject: [EuroPython] www.europython.org gives an impression of imminent death... References: <5.2.1.1.0.20030417153508.00b9c250@www.thinkware.se> <00ea01c303fc$aa27e8d0$b36da8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> <5.2.1.1.0.20030417153508.00b9c250@www.thinkware.se> <5.2.1.1.0.20030417203322.00bd6a90@www.thinkware.se> Message-ID: <00e801c30594$def3bc80$b36da8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> > If nothing else is done, I hope someone can just add a clear > notice that the content for 2003 is expected to appear on the > site at some particular date (which is soon). Marking everything > on a search page, doing a search and getting "Sorry, none of the > talks fulfilled to your search criteria" sounds bad, even if it > continues with "The talks you are looking for are still being > approved by the selection committee." The visitor is completely > left in the dark! You're right, it can be imporved, thanks for the tip. I made a link to the call for participation page Tom. PS. There are also the news topics From tom@aragne.com Fri Apr 18 11:28:49 2003 From: tom@aragne.com (Tom Deprez) Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 12:28:49 +0200 Subject: [EuroPython] Interviews Message-ID: <00f601c30595$4d5e0860$b36da8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> Hi, Are there people interested in interviewing somebody (just like last year)? It would be nice to be able to add some new interviews at: http://www.europython.org/other/interviews Tom. From tom@aragne.com Fri Apr 18 11:40:16 2003 From: tom@aragne.com (Tom Deprez) Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 12:40:16 +0200 Subject: [EuroPython] IRC Message-ID: <011401c30596$e6b3eb50$b36da8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> Hi, Today, I'll be constantly logged on the #europython IRC channel. I'll view regulary the channel for questions or people who want to have a chat. See you there. irc.freenode.net #europython Tom. From mal@lemburg.com Fri Apr 18 12:05:21 2003 From: mal@lemburg.com (M.-A. Lemburg) Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 13:05:21 +0200 Subject: [EuroPython] Python Success Stories on europython.org? In-Reply-To: <00d601c30593$670b6fc0$b36da8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> References: <00d601c30593$670b6fc0$b36da8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> Message-ID: <3E9FDBF1.5010806@lemburg.com> Tom Deprez wrote: > Hi all, > > Your opinion? +1 The correct URL is: http://www.pythonology.org/success&help=1 > Regards, > Tom. > > > >>Hi, Tom, >> >>Someone suggested to me that it would be nice to content franchise >>the Python Success Stories collection to www.europython.org: >> >>http://pythonology.org/success >> >>Would you be interested in doing this? It's quite easy to set up >>using this Web service: >> >>http://pythonology.org/success&help=1 >> >>We're trying to get as much exposure for these stories as possible, >>and of course they also help to convince people to try Python and >>perhaps to go to things like EuroPython. >> >>Let me know what you think, or if I should be contacting someone >>else about this (I got your email from the bottom of the home page). >> >>Thanks! >> >>- Stephan >> >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > EuroPython mailing list > EuroPython@python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/europython -- Marc-Andre Lemburg eGenix.com Professional Python Software directly from the Source (#1, Apr 18 2003) >>> Python/Zope Products & Consulting ... http://www.egenix.com/ >>> mxODBC, mxDateTime, mxTextTools ... http://python.egenix.com/ ________________________________________________________________________ EuroPython 2003, Charleroi, Belgium: 67 days left From tom.deprez@uz.kuleuven.ac.be Fri Apr 18 14:12:22 2003 From: tom.deprez@uz.kuleuven.ac.be (Tom Deprez) Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 15:12:22 +0200 Subject: [EuroPython] Banner available Message-ID: <03f801c305ac$265d5330$b36da8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> Hi, A EP2003 banner is available at: http://www.europython.org/other/gadgets/files/banner_01 Can you replace it by "The EuroPython Conference Team announces the second major Python and Zope Conference in Europe to be held in Charleroi, Belgium on June 25-27, 2003. The European Python and Zope Conference is an initiative by the EuroPython Conference Team to bring together Python and Zope, users and developers. This is also an opportunity for those who are interested in these technologies to learn more about them." Regards, Tom. From tom@aragne.com Fri Apr 18 14:15:49 2003 From: tom@aragne.com (Tom Deprez) Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 15:15:49 +0200 Subject: [EuroPython] Re: Banner available Message-ID: <041801c305ac$a1aae070$b36da8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> ugh, forget that last part (it's about the posters concerning EP2003, which aren't completely ready yet). Tom. Tom Deprez wrote: > Hi, > > A EP2003 banner is available at: > http://www.europython.org/other/gadgets/files/banner_01 > > Can you replace it by > > "The EuroPython Conference Team announces the second major Python and > Zope Conference in Europe to be held in Charleroi, Belgium on June 25- > 27, 2003. The European Python and Zope Conference is an initiative by > the EuroPython Conference Team to bring together Python and Zope, > users and developers. This is also an opportunity for those who are > interested in these technologies to learn more about them." > > Regards, > Tom. From mwh@python.net Fri Apr 18 19:44:40 2003 From: mwh@python.net (Michael Hudson) Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 19:44:40 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] www.europython.org gives an impression of imminent death... In-Reply-To: <00e801c30594$def3bc80$b36da8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> ("Tom Deprez"'s message of "Fri, 18 Apr 2003 12:25:44 +0200") References: <5.2.1.1.0.20030417153508.00b9c250@www.thinkware.se> <00ea01c303fc$aa27e8d0$b36da8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> <5.2.1.1.0.20030417153508.00b9c250@www.thinkware.se> <5.2.1.1.0.20030417203322.00bd6a90@www.thinkware.se> <00e801c30594$def3bc80$b36da8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> Message-ID: <2mznmnprvr.fsf@starship.python.net> "Tom Deprez" writes: >> If nothing else is done, I hope someone can just add a clear >> notice that the content for 2003 is expected to appear on the >> site at some particular date (which is soon). Marking everything >> on a search page, doing a search and getting "Sorry, none of the >> talks fulfilled to your search criteria" sounds bad, even if it >> continues with "The talks you are looking for are still being >> approved by the selection committee." The visitor is completely >> left in the dark! > > You're right, it can be imporved, thanks for the tip. Yeah, thanks for the notice! We should *really* do better on this next year -- try to clean up the 2003 site by August, say. I guess this starts with me learning something about Zope... Cheers, M. -- In the 1950s and 60s there was a regular brain drain of young Australians from the cities to London, but it was because of money, culture and opportunity, not spiders. -- Al Grant, ucam.chat, from Owen Dunn's review of the year From mwh@python.net Fri Apr 18 19:45:51 2003 From: mwh@python.net (Michael Hudson) Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 19:45:51 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Interviews In-Reply-To: <00f601c30595$4d5e0860$b36da8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> ("Tom Deprez"'s message of "Fri, 18 Apr 2003 12:28:49 +0200") References: <00f601c30595$4d5e0860$b36da8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> Message-ID: <2mwuhrprts.fsf@starship.python.net> "Tom Deprez" writes: > Are there people interested in interviewing somebody (just like last year)? > It would be nice to be able to add some new interviews at: > http://www.europython.org/other/interviews Good idea. Who should we interview? I guess we need to work out who our speakers are going to be first... Cheers, M. -- 34. The string is a stark data structure and everywhere it is passed there is much duplication of process. It is a perfect vehicle for hiding information. -- Alan Perlis, http://www.cs.yale.edu/homes/perlis-alan/quotes.html From Andrew.Smart@smart-knowhow.de Mon Apr 21 08:16:52 2003 From: Andrew.Smart@smart-knowhow.de (Andrew Smart) Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 09:16:52 +0200 Subject: [EuroPython] Sponsorship Message-ID: Hi folks, since June is coming nearer I would like to raise two questions: a) did my money arrive? If so, I need some official reciept from the conference or I'll get trouble from my accounting people b) what are the conditions for sponsoring? Regards, Andrew From Andrew.Smart@smart-knowhow.de Mon Apr 21 08:16:57 2003 From: Andrew.Smart@smart-knowhow.de (Andrew Smart) Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 09:16:57 +0200 Subject: [EuroPython] Possible Talks/Activities/Coaching on EPC Message-ID: Hi folks, I'm undecided about giving talks at EPC. The reason is that all of that stuff doesn't have direct connections to Python or Zope. I can give talks about - what are the major obstacles in IT projects - some views about measuring effort in IT projects - the "Theory of Constraints" approach to IT projects/project management - my systemical view of software projects and teams - teams, geeks and the human factor I could try to create some ideas how Python or ZOPE could support such approaches, but to be true, I don't have enough experience with Python teams to be able to judge the difference. So I'm asking the community if their are willing to hear something where the words "Python" or "Zope" are in the background? The second idea is a bit more experimental. It would not be a presentation but more like a working session. For this I would need a team which is working together and which is willing to try out something new. I would like to try out a technic called "problem/ solution sculpture" from the coaching on a given technical or conceptional problem the team has to deal with. Usually this sculptures are used to solve problems in organisational situations, but I quite sure that an adaption could be thery useful for IT related problems. At least I'm willing to give on ore two teams the "usual" systemical coaching. This is a bit related to the "teams, geeks and the human factor" topic. Coaching normal teams is one thing, coaching of a teams of geeks a totally different, I think. I would like to do this. But this coaching sessions have a maximum limit of 20-25 participants. Participant means participating, not just viewing or hearing. Beeing participant means you could end up in a sculpture saying things you didn't know before :-) Give me your views, folks! Andrew From mal@lemburg.com Tue Apr 22 21:38:08 2003 From: mal@lemburg.com (M.-A. Lemburg) Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 22:38:08 +0200 Subject: [EuroPython] Extending talk submission deadline Message-ID: <3EA5A830.8040301@lemburg.com> I think that we need to extend the talk submission deadline for about two more weeks... there aren't enough talk submissions yet to fill three days with 3 parallel tracks each. Thoughts ? -- Marc-Andre Lemburg eGenix.com Professional Python Software directly from the Source (#1, Apr 22 2003) >>> Python/Zope Products & Consulting ... http://www.egenix.com/ >>> mxODBC, mxDateTime, mxTextTools ... http://python.egenix.com/ ________________________________________________________________________ EuroPython 2003, Charleroi, Belgium: 63 days left From andy@reportlab.com Wed Apr 23 00:45:11 2003 From: andy@reportlab.com (Andy Robinson) Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 00:45:11 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Possible Talks/Activities/Coaching on EPC In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > I'm undecided about giving talks at EPC. The reason is that all of that > stuff doesn't have direct connections to Python or Zope. I can give > talks about > - what are the major obstacles in IT projects > - some views about measuring effort in IT projects > - the "Theory of Constraints" approach to IT projects/project management > - my systemical view of software projects and teams > - teams, geeks and the human factor > > So I'm asking the community if their are willing to hear something > where the words "Python" or "Zope" are in the background? I would definitely like to see some talks like this. It's not like I get to 20 conferences a year, and the more intellectual stimulation in one place the better. - Andy Robinson From andy@reportlab.com Wed Apr 23 00:45:11 2003 From: andy@reportlab.com (Andy Robinson) Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 00:45:11 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Extending talk submission deadline In-Reply-To: <3EA5A830.8040301@lemburg.com> Message-ID: > I think that we need to extend the talk submission deadline for > about two more weeks... there aren't enough talk submissions yet > to fill three days with 3 parallel tracks each. > > Thoughts ? Yes please, I still haven't written abstracts for the 3-4 talks I want to give :-) - Andy From sf@nuxeo.com Wed Apr 23 07:02:52 2003 From: sf@nuxeo.com (Fermigier Stefane) Date: 23 Apr 2003 08:02:52 +0200 Subject: [EuroPython] Extending talk submission deadline In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1051077772.12716.2.camel@fermigier.yi.org> Le mer 23/04/2003 =E0 01:45, Andy Robinson a =E9crit : > > I think that we need to extend the talk submission deadline for > > about two more weeks... there aren't enough talk submissions yet > > to fill three days with 3 parallel tracks each. > >=20 > > Thoughts ? >=20 > Yes please, I still haven't written abstracts for > the 3-4 talks I want to give :-) Same for me :) Cheers, S. --=20 St=E9fane Fermigier, Tel: +33 (0)6 63 04 12 77 (mobile). Nuxeo Collaborative Portal Server: http://www.nuxeo.com/cps Gestion de contenu web / portail collaboratif / groupware / open source ! From huima@huima.net Tue Apr 22 21:25:29 2003 From: huima@huima.net (Heimo Laukkanen) Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 21:25:29 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Possible Talks/Activities/Coaching on EPC In-Reply-To: <20030421160045.15602.22869.Mailman@mail.python.org> References: <20030421160045.15602.22869.Mailman@mail.python.org> Message-ID: <3EA5A539.60804@huima.net> > Message: 2 > From: "Andrew Smart" > To: "Europython" > Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 09:16:57 +0200 > Subject: [EuroPython] Possible Talks/Activities/Coaching on EPC > - what are the major obstacles in IT projects > - some views about measuring effort in IT projects > - the "Theory of Constraints" approach to IT projects/project management > - my systemical view of software projects and teams > - teams, geeks and the human factor Whoa! Atleast to me every single of these subjects would be interesting, especially I would like to hear your views about theory of constraints on IT-projects. So I would be up for it - especially if the Zope/Python aspect could be somehow be discussed in the talk too. However don't know how it would happen. How others feel? -huima From tom@aragne.com Wed Apr 23 09:37:19 2003 From: tom@aragne.com (Tom Deprez) Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 10:37:19 +0200 Subject: [EuroPython] Extending talk submission deadline References: <1051077772.12716.2.camel@fermigier.yi.org> Message-ID: <005701c30973$8e0b9a80$b36da8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> Okay, I just wanted to write a mail if the track chairman could fill their tracks. Looks like they don't have enough talks yet. So, ok, let's extend it. I adjust it on the website. Can others (chairman) announce it on the different lists? Thanks? I'll wait for opening the registration online, until we have some idea of the talks. Can the track chairman already approve some talks ? This so that visitors of the site can already have some idea... Ok to extend it till : 12th of May (so that's 3 weeks from now) ... and that's final. Tom. Fermigier Stefane wrote: > Le mer 23/04/2003 à 01:45, Andy Robinson a écrit : >>> I think that we need to extend the talk submission deadline for >>> about two more weeks... there aren't enough talk submissions yet >>> to fill three days with 3 parallel tracks each. >>> >>> Thoughts ? >> >> Yes please, I still haven't written abstracts for >> the 3-4 talks I want to give :-) > > Same for me :) > > Cheers, > > S. > > _______________________________________________ > EuroPython mailing list > EuroPython@python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/europython From tom@aragne.com Wed Apr 23 09:43:58 2003 From: tom@aragne.com (Tom Deprez) Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 10:43:58 +0200 Subject: [EuroPython] Banner available... Message-ID: <008701c30974$7b4d84c0$b36da8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> Hi, Just wanted to re-inform you all that a banner is available: http://www.europython.org/other/gadgets/files/banner_01 It would be nice to see it on almost every webpage on the net :-) Regards, Tom. From mal@lemburg.com Wed Apr 23 09:45:18 2003 From: mal@lemburg.com (M.-A. Lemburg) Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 10:45:18 +0200 Subject: [EuroPython] Extending talk submission deadline In-Reply-To: <005701c30973$8e0b9a80$b36da8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> References: <1051077772.12716.2.camel@fermigier.yi.org> <005701c30973$8e0b9a80$b36da8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> Message-ID: <3EA6529E.9070508@lemburg.com> Tom Deprez wrote: > Okay, > > I just wanted to write a mail if the track chairman could fill their tracks. > Looks like they don't have enough talks yet. > So, ok, let's extend it. I adjust it on the website. Can others (chairman) > announce it on the different lists? Thanks? > I'll wait for opening the registration online, until we have some idea of > the talks. > Can the track chairman already approve some talks ? This so that visitors of > the site can already have some idea... Tim and I will look into this within the next week. BTW, the Talks link on the web-site doesn't list approved talks. Is that intended ? > Ok to extend it till : 12th of May (so that's 3 weeks from now) ... and > that's final. Thanks ! -- Marc-Andre Lemburg eGenix.com Professional Python Software directly from the Source (#1, Apr 23 2003) >>> Python/Zope Products & Consulting ... http://www.egenix.com/ >>> mxODBC, mxDateTime, mxTextTools ... http://python.egenix.com/ ________________________________________________________________________ EuroPython 2003, Charleroi, Belgium: 62 days left From tom@aragne.com Wed Apr 23 09:54:19 2003 From: tom@aragne.com (Tom Deprez) Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 10:54:19 +0200 Subject: [EuroPython] Extending talk submission deadline References: <1051077772.12716.2.camel@fermigier.yi.org> <005701c30973$8e0b9a80$b36da8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> <3EA6529E.9070508@lemburg.com> Message-ID: <009501c30975$ef763170$b36da8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> > BTW, the Talks link on the web-site doesn't list approved talks. Is > that intended ? Do you mean the CallFor page? This is intended not to work. Or the page at the Admin part? The last one should work, I just tested it. Regards, Tom. From mal@lemburg.com Wed Apr 23 09:58:53 2003 From: mal@lemburg.com (M.-A. Lemburg) Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 10:58:53 +0200 Subject: [EuroPython] Extending talk submission deadline In-Reply-To: <009501c30975$ef763170$b36da8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> References: <1051077772.12716.2.camel@fermigier.yi.org> <005701c30973$8e0b9a80$b36da8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> <3EA6529E.9070508@lemburg.com> <009501c30975$ef763170$b36da8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> Message-ID: <3EA655CD.8030406@lemburg.com> Tom Deprez wrote: >>BTW, the Talks link on the web-site doesn't list approved talks. Is >>that intended ? > > Do you mean the CallFor page? This is intended not to work. > Or the page at the Admin part? The last one should work, I just tested it. Neither. This page is what I was talking about: http://www.europython.org/sessions/talks -- Marc-Andre Lemburg eGenix.com Professional Python Software directly from the Source (#1, Apr 23 2003) >>> Python/Zope Products & Consulting ... http://www.egenix.com/ >>> mxODBC, mxDateTime, mxTextTools ... http://python.egenix.com/ ________________________________________________________________________ EuroPython 2003, Charleroi, Belgium: 62 days left From gherman@darwin.in-berlin.de Wed Apr 23 11:03:13 2003 From: gherman@darwin.in-berlin.de (Dinu Gherman) Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 12:03:13 +0200 Subject: [EuroPython] Possible Talks/Activities/Coaching on EPC In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Andrew Smart: > I'm undecided about giving talks at EPC. The reason is that all of that > stuff doesn't have direct connections to Python or Zope. I can give > talks about > - what are the major obstacles in IT projects > - some views about measuring effort in IT projects > - the "Theory of Constraints" approach to IT projects/project > management > - my systemical view of software projects and teams > - teams, geeks and the human factor > [...] > Give me your views, folks! This is certainly interesting in itself. It is also mainly about project management, if I understand correctly, and as you have touched on it yourself, it could be seen as a departure from the main conference topics, which are Python and Zope. While I definitly wouldn't mind one more business talk, I'm not so sure I'd like to see the conference scope being extended by an en- tire track or day dedicated to project management issues. Dinu -- Dinu C. Gherman ...................................................................... "I'm gonna talk about the ideal world, Chris. I've read - I understand reality. If you're asking me as the president, would I understand re- ality, I do." (George W. Bush, 31 May 2000) From tom@aragne.com Wed Apr 23 12:02:59 2003 From: tom@aragne.com (Tom Deprez) Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 13:02:59 +0200 Subject: [EuroPython] Extending talk submission deadline References: <1051077772.12716.2.camel@fermigier.yi.org> <005701c30973$8e0b9a80$b36da8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> <3EA6529E.9070508@lemburg.com> <009501c30975$ef763170$b36da8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> <3EA655CD.8030406@lemburg.com> Message-ID: <00e701c30987$e6e7c610$b36da8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> Ah that one. Are there already approved talks for 2003? If so, then there is something wrong. Tom. M.-A. Lemburg wrote: > Tom Deprez wrote: >>> BTW, the Talks link on the web-site doesn't list approved talks. Is >>> that intended ? >> >> Do you mean the CallFor page? This is intended not to work. >> Or the page at the Admin part? The last one should work, I just >> tested it. > > Neither. This page is what I was talking about: > > http://www.europython.org/sessions/talks > > Professional Python Software directly from the Source (#1, Apr 23 > 2003) >>> Python/Zope Products & Consulting ... > http://www.egenix.com/ >>> mxODBC, mxDateTime, mxTextTools ... > http://python.egenix.com/ > ________________________________________________________________________ EuroPython 2003, Charleroi, Belgium: 62 days left From Nicolas.Chauvat@logilab.fr Wed Apr 23 12:08:28 2003 From: Nicolas.Chauvat@logilab.fr (Nicolas Chauvat) Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 13:08:28 +0200 Subject: [EuroPython] Extending talk submission deadline In-Reply-To: <00e701c30987$e6e7c610$b36da8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> References: <1051077772.12716.2.camel@fermigier.yi.org> <005701c30973$8e0b9a80$b36da8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> <3EA6529E.9070508@lemburg.com> <009501c30975$ef763170$b36da8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> <3EA655CD.8030406@lemburg.com> <00e701c30987$e6e7c610$b36da8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> Message-ID: <20030423110828.GI17749@logilab.fr> On Wed, Apr 23, 2003 at 01:02:59PM +0200, Tom Deprez wrote: > Ah that one. > Are there already approved talks for 2003? If so, then there is something > wrong. I approved 4 already. -- Nicolas Chauvat http://www.logilab.com - "Mais où est donc Ornicar ?" - LOGILAB, Paris (France) From tom@aragne.com Wed Apr 23 12:10:23 2003 From: tom@aragne.com (Tom Deprez) Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 13:10:23 +0200 Subject: [EuroPython] Extending talk submission deadline References: <1051077772.12716.2.camel@fermigier.yi.org> <005701c30973$8e0b9a80$b36da8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> <3EA6529E.9070508@lemburg.com> <009501c30975$ef763170$b36da8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> <3EA655CD.8030406@lemburg.com> <00e701c30987$e6e7c610$b36da8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> <20030423110828.GI17749@logilab.fr> Message-ID: <010901c30988$ef92e690$b36da8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> I'll have a look. Thanks for mentioning. Tom. Nicolas Chauvat wrote: > On Wed, Apr 23, 2003 at 01:02:59PM +0200, Tom Deprez wrote: >> Ah that one. >> Are there already approved talks for 2003? If so, then there is >> something wrong. > > I approved 4 already. > > http://www.logilab.com - "Mais où est donc Ornicar ?" - LOGILAB, > Paris (France) > > _______________________________________________ > EuroPython mailing list > EuroPython@python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/europython From tom@aragne.com Wed Apr 23 13:05:01 2003 From: tom@aragne.com (Tom Deprez) Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 14:05:01 +0200 Subject: [Tom] Re: [EuroPython] Extending talk submission deadline References: <1051077772.12716.2.camel@fermigier.yi.org> <005701c30973$8e0b9a80$b36da8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> <3EA6529E.9070508@lemburg.com> <009501c30975$ef763170$b36da8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> <3EA655CD.8030406@lemburg.com> <00e701c30987$e6e7c610$b36da8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> <20030423110828.GI17749@logilab.fr> <010901c30988$ef92e690$b36da8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> Message-ID: <010f01c30990$91b5feb0$b36da8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> Ha, found. It's because they don't have a scheduled day yet. They all are scheduled for day '0' I've added an option to see the talks which are accepted but don't have a fixed day yet. Regards, Tom Tom Deprez wrote: > I'll have a look. > Thanks for mentioning. > > Tom. > > Nicolas Chauvat wrote: >> On Wed, Apr 23, 2003 at 01:02:59PM +0200, Tom Deprez wrote: >>> Ah that one. >>> Are there already approved talks for 2003? If so, then there is >>> something wrong. >> >> I approved 4 already. >> >> http://www.logilab.com - "Mais où est donc Ornicar ?" - LOGILAB, >> Paris (France) >> >> _______________________________________________ >> EuroPython mailing list >> EuroPython@python.org >> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/europython > > > _______________________________________________ > EuroPython mailing list > EuroPython@python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/europython From mal@lemburg.com Wed Apr 23 13:14:09 2003 From: mal@lemburg.com (M.-A. Lemburg) Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 14:14:09 +0200 Subject: [Tom] Re: [EuroPython] Extending talk submission deadline In-Reply-To: <010f01c30990$91b5feb0$b36da8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> References: <1051077772.12716.2.camel@fermigier.yi.org> <005701c30973$8e0b9a80$b36da8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> <3EA6529E.9070508@lemburg.com> <009501c30975$ef763170$b36da8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> <3EA655CD.8030406@lemburg.com> <00e701c30987$e6e7c610$b36da8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> <20030423110828.GI17749@logilab.fr> <010901c30988$ef92e690$b36da8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> <010f01c30990$91b5feb0$b36da8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> Message-ID: <3EA68391.40809@lemburg.com> Tom Deprez wrote: > Ha, found. > > It's because they don't have a scheduled day yet. They all are scheduled for > day '0' > > I've added an option to see the talks which are accepted but don't have a > fixed day yet. Ah, so that's why. Thanks ! -- Marc-Andre Lemburg eGenix.com Professional Python Software directly from the Source (#1, Apr 23 2003) >>> Python/Zope Products & Consulting ... http://www.egenix.com/ >>> mxODBC, mxDateTime, mxTextTools ... http://python.egenix.com/ ________________________________________________________________________ EuroPython 2003, Charleroi, Belgium: 62 days left From magnus@thinkware.se Wed Apr 23 13:53:20 2003 From: magnus@thinkware.se (Magnus =?iso-8859-1?Q?Lyck=E5?=) Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 14:53:20 +0200 Subject: [EuroPython] Extending talk submission deadline In-Reply-To: <005701c30973$8e0b9a80$b36da8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> References: <1051077772.12716.2.camel@fermigier.yi.org> Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20030423144717.00be5540@www.thinkware.se> At 10:37 2003-04-23 +0200, you wrote: >Ok to extend it till : 12th of May (so that's 3 weeks from now) ... and >that's final. From web site: "Deadline extended: The track chairmen are still excepting talks!" Should that maybe be "accepting talks"? BTW, the banner is now on my wikis: http://www.thinkware.se/cgi-bin/thinki.cgi/ http://www.thinkware.se/cgi-bin/whisky.cgi http://www.thinkware.se/cgi-bin/harn/wiki.cgi etc... -- Magnus Lycka (It's really Lyckå), magnus@thinkware.se Thinkware AB, Sweden, www.thinkware.se I code Python ~ The shortest path from thought to working program From tom@aragne.com Wed Apr 23 18:24:11 2003 From: tom@aragne.com (Tom Deprez) Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 19:24:11 +0200 Subject: [EuroPython] To Track Chairmen Message-ID: <035c01c309bd$28065b40$b36da8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> Track Chairmen. Hi all, We need to get the schedules ready. Can every track chairman give an idea how many slots day need? Remember: We've three days with each 3 possible parallel rooms. I propose to use the same template as last year: 8:30 coffee 09:00 - 10:30 : talk slot 10:30 - 11:00 : coffee 11:00 - 12:30 : talk slot 12:30 - 13:30 : lunch 13:30 - 15:00 : talk slot 15:00 - 15:30 : coffee 15:30 - 17:00 : talk slot 17:00 - 18:00 : keynote ? The talk slots can be filled with 30 or 45 min talks. Tutorials can use the same time or can extend longer eg 2x 90min (full morning, ...) How they are filled is up to you. We need to have a more or less clear idea rather soon. Talks can still be switched etc, but we need to resolve which track has which slots per day. Remember we've 3 days, we've 3 rooms. For ease: the 2 slots in the morning or the 2 slots in the evening should belong to the same track. ie no mixing of tracks. Please give your ideas at http://starship.python.net/crew/mwh/tracker/europython/issue33 Regards, Tom From mal@lemburg.com Wed Apr 23 19:31:18 2003 From: mal@lemburg.com (M.-A. Lemburg) Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 20:31:18 +0200 Subject: [EuroPython] To Track Chairmen In-Reply-To: <035c01c309bd$28065b40$b36da8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> References: <035c01c309bd$28065b40$b36da8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> Message-ID: <3EA6DBF6.9080006@lemburg.com> Tom Deprez wrote: > Track Chairmen. > > We need to have a more or less clear idea rather soon. Talks can still be > switched etc, but we need to resolve which track has which slots per day. > Remember we've 3 days, we've 3 rooms. > For ease: the 2 slots in the morning or the 2 slots in the evening should > belong to the same track. ie no mixing of tracks. I'm fine with the room we had last year, but the CEME will have to do something about the air conditioning in that room (and probably the others as well) -- otherwise slots 3 & 4 won't be fun to attend... > Please give your ideas at > http://starship.python.net/crew/mwh/tracker/europython/issue33 Done. -- Marc-Andre Lemburg eGenix.com Professional Python Software directly from the Source (#1, Apr 23 2003) >>> Python/Zope Products & Consulting ... http://www.egenix.com/ >>> mxODBC, mxDateTime, mxTextTools ... http://python.egenix.com/ ________________________________________________________________________ EuroPython 2003, Charleroi, Belgium: 62 days left From Cmrchimpman@aol.com Wed Apr 23 21:45:26 2003 From: Cmrchimpman@aol.com (Cmrchimpman@aol.com) Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 16:45:26 EDT Subject: [EuroPython] (no subject) Message-ID: <14.fb9d220.2bd85566@aol.com> --part1_14.fb9d220.2bd85566_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit he my name ics Cj and i work for a embroidery companyi was wondering who ever need embroidery on a hat or golf shirt can call me at 203 650 9066 --part1_14.fb9d220.2bd85566_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable he my name ics Cj  and i work for a embroidery co= mpanyi was wondering who ever need embroidery on a hat or golf shirt can cal= l me at 203 650 9066 --part1_14.fb9d220.2bd85566_boundary-- From jh@web.de Wed Apr 23 22:13:33 2003 From: jh@web.de (Juergen Hermann) Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 23:13:33 +0200 Subject: [EuroPython] Extending talk submission deadline In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.0.20030423144717.00be5540@www.thinkware.se> Message-ID: On=20Wed,=2023=20Apr=202003=2014:53:20=20+0200,=20Magnus=20Lyck=E5=20wrote= : >=20From=20web=20site: >"Deadline=20extended:=20The=20track=20chairmen=20are=20still=20excepting=20= talks!" > >Should=20that=20maybe=20be=20"accepting=20talks"? Yeah,=20I=20hope=20the=202=20talks=20I=20just=20submitted=20will=20not=20b= e=20excepted.=20;) Ciao,=20J=FCrgen From tismer@tismer.com Wed Apr 23 22:35:44 2003 From: tismer@tismer.com (Christian Tismer) Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 23:35:44 +0200 Subject: [EuroPython] Extending talk submission deadline In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3EA70730.1030209@tismer.com> Andy Robinson wrote: >>I think that we need to extend the talk submission deadline for >>about two more weeks... there aren't enough talk submissions yet >>to fill three days with 3 parallel tracks each. >> >>Thoughts ? > > > Yes please, I still haven't written abstracts for > the 3-4 talks I want to give :-) Same here. I will definately talk about Stackless 3.0, one large theoretical part, but for beginners, one about the EVE online game, which I want to show in action (Python in outer space, *really*) and there is another application which I wrote by myself, which may fold into that second talk or be on its own. So please count on me and reserve two hours. ciao - chris -- Christian Tismer :^) Mission Impossible 5oftware : Have a break! Take a ride on Python's Johannes-Niemeyer-Weg 9a : *Starship* http://starship.python.net/ 14109 Berlin : PGP key -> http://wwwkeys.pgp.net/ work +49 30 89 09 53 34 home +49 30 802 86 56 pager +49 173 24 18 776 PGP 0x57F3BF04 9064 F4E1 D754 C2FF 1619 305B C09C 5A3B 57F3 BF04 whom do you want to sponsor today? http://www.stackless.com/ From mal@lemburg.com Thu Apr 24 09:21:47 2003 From: mal@lemburg.com (M.-A. Lemburg) Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 10:21:47 +0200 Subject: [EuroPython] Extending talk submission deadline In-Reply-To: <3EA70730.1030209@tismer.com> References: <3EA70730.1030209@tismer.com> Message-ID: <3EA79E9B.5080805@lemburg.com> Christian Tismer wrote: > Andy Robinson wrote: > >>> I think that we need to extend the talk submission deadline for >>> about two more weeks... there aren't enough talk submissions yet >>> to fill three days with 3 parallel tracks each. >>> >>> Thoughts ? >> >> >> >> Yes please, I still haven't written abstracts for >> the 3-4 talks I want to give :-) > > > Same here. > I will definately talk about Stackless 3.0, > one large theoretical part, but for beginners, > one about the EVE online game, which I want to show > in action (Python in outer space, *really*) > and there is another application which I wrote by myself, > which may fold into that second talk or be on its own. > > So please count on me and reserve two hours. Please submit talk suggestions for these planned talks ASAP to the online database. The reason we have the database is to manage talk suggestions -- whether the talks make it into the tracks is a decision of the track chairmen, but we'd appreciate having something to choose from in the first place :-) BTW, you can always contact the track chairmen to withdraw a proposal. -- Marc-Andre Lemburg eGenix.com Professional Python Software directly from the Source (#1, Apr 24 2003) >>> Python/Zope Products & Consulting ... http://www.egenix.com/ >>> mxODBC, mxDateTime, mxTextTools ... http://python.egenix.com/ ________________________________________________________________________ EuroPython 2003, Charleroi, Belgium: 61 days left From Andrew.Smart@smart-knowhow.de Thu Apr 24 10:01:33 2003 From: Andrew.Smart@smart-knowhow.de (Andrew Smart) Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 11:01:33 +0200 Subject: [EuroPython] Possible Talks/Activities/Coaching on EPC In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > -----Ursprungliche Nachricht----- > Von: europython-admin@python.org [mailto:europython-admin@python.org]Im > Auftrag von Dinu Gherman > Gesendet: Mittwoch, 23. April 2003 12:03 > An: europython@python.org > Betreff: Re: [EuroPython] Possible Talks/Activities/Coaching on EPC > > ... > > This is certainly interesting in itself. It is also mainly about > project management, if I understand correctly, and as you have > touched on it yourself, it could be seen as a departure from the > main conference topics, which are Python and Zope. > > While I definitly wouldn't mind one more business talk, I'm not so > sure I'd like to see the conference scope being extended by an en- > tire track or day dedicated to project management issues. > > Dinu > Hi Dinu & others, I understand your comment, and the same argument is part for my hesitation to propose such a talk. But, thinking of it, maybe there is a way to integrate the communitity and/or the audience. I'm thinking about to query the community about the effects of a switch of developing languages (say from C++ to Python) from a project manager point of view. I'll write a seperate mail for this. Andrew From mal@lemburg.com Thu Apr 24 10:34:40 2003 From: mal@lemburg.com (M.-A. Lemburg) Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 11:34:40 +0200 Subject: [EuroPython] Possible Talks/Activities/Coaching on EPC In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3EA7AFB0.1060205@lemburg.com> Andrew Smart wrote: >>-----Ursprungliche Nachricht----- >>Von: europython-admin@python.org [mailto:europython-admin@python.org]Im >>Auftrag von Dinu Gherman >>Gesendet: Mittwoch, 23. April 2003 12:03 >>An: europython@python.org >>Betreff: Re: [EuroPython] Possible Talks/Activities/Coaching on EPC >> >>... >> >>This is certainly interesting in itself. It is also mainly about >>project management, if I understand correctly, and as you have >>touched on it yourself, it could be seen as a departure from the >>main conference topics, which are Python and Zope. >> >>While I definitly wouldn't mind one more business talk, I'm not so >>sure I'd like to see the conference scope being extended by an en- >>tire track or day dedicated to project management issues. >> >>Dinu >> > > Hi Dinu & others, > > I understand your comment, and the same argument is part for my > hesitation to propose such a talk. > > But, thinking of it, maybe there is a way to integrate the communitity > and/or the audience. I'm thinking about to query the community about > the effects of a switch of developing languages (say from C++ to Python) > from a project manager point of view. Tim and I would be happy to consider a talk about project manager in the light of using Python/Zope as development tool. These tools do make a difference in project layout. If you're interested, please post a talk proposal to the online talk submission database. Thanks, -- Marc-Andre Lemburg eGenix.com Professional Python Software directly from the Source (#1, Apr 24 2003) >>> Python/Zope Products & Consulting ... http://www.egenix.com/ >>> mxODBC, mxDateTime, mxTextTools ... http://python.egenix.com/ ________________________________________________________________________ EuroPython 2003, Charleroi, Belgium: 61 days left From Andrew.Smart@smart-knowhow.de Thu Apr 24 10:34:44 2003 From: Andrew.Smart@smart-knowhow.de (Andrew Smart) Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 11:34:44 +0200 Subject: [EuroPython] EPC2003: Would you give us your experience for a talk? Message-ID: Hi folks, I'm discussing a possible talk about project management for the Europython Conference 2003 (EPC 2003) in June (you will come, of course, won't you? ;-). The question is: is Python just a other programming language? Or influcences the programming language the way projects are going and their way to success or failure? I can not answer this question, since I haven't been working as a project manager for a Python based project. But _you_ can answer this. Most interesting would be to hear from project managers and developers who have gone throu a switch from e.g. C++ to Python, Perl to Python or Visual Basic to Python. If someone is interested to sharing his experiences, I would make a short eMail interview and present the results as part of my talk on the EPC 2003. Of course every participant would get the results also, with or without showing up at the EPC. But since everyone comes... *wink* Let's share the experiences! Andrew P.S.: Why I think that the switch to a different programming language should have an influence...: Languages influence the way we think. With every (spoken) language comes a cultural and value-related context. If you are moving very much in such a context (using the language) the context influences the way you interpret and judge informations, which influences the way you communicate yourself. >From my own personal experience I can say this also from programming languages. The way the programming language goes, the way I start to think if I use this language every day. And even the way you use the spoken language is sooner or later influenced by the structures of the programming language. Programming is building solutions, and you get used to a certain way to build solutions, regardless if they are virtual or real-life solutions. Depending on your real life, the personal structure and the way you grew up this effect may be stronger or weaker, or not existent at all. If you follow a discussion between Unix system administrators, Oracle PL/SQL gurus and GUI visual basic developers you can see with a trained eye that there a big differences in thinking and the way solutions are approached. If you look at the way a everyday C++ OOP programmers approaches a discussion you'll see the design of abstract data structures while the programmer talks. Of course, not every programmer, not every time. But I'm sure there is a tendency (since I see this every day...). I would say there is a straight relation between lines of code and style of speech... :-) If I remember my old 6502 ASSEMBLER times... I must have been talking like a hacker... *grin* So, since you solve problems in Python in a different way than, say, C++, a project which switches to Python should get a different style in discussing, problem solving and doing. Is there a difference? You know the answer! Share it! From andreas@mtg.co.at Thu Apr 24 11:53:13 2003 From: andreas@mtg.co.at (Andreas Kostyrka) Date: 24 Apr 2003 12:53:13 +0200 Subject: [EuroPython] Re: [ez] EPC2003: Would you give us your experience for a talk? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1051181593.29355.138.camel@andi-lap> Am Don, 2003-04-24 um 11.34 schrieb Andrew Smart: > I can not answer this question, since I haven't been working as a project > manager for a Python based project. Same here ;) > P.S.: Why I think that the switch to a different programming language should > have an influence...: > > Languages influence the way we think. With every (spoken) language comes > a cultural and value-related context. If you are moving very much in such > a context (using the language) the context influences the way you interpret > and judge informations, which influences the way you communicate yourself. > > >From my own personal experience I can say this also from programming > languages. > The way the programming language goes, the way I start to think if I use > this > language every day. And even the way you use the spoken language is sooner > or > later influenced by the structures of the programming language. Programming > is > building solutions, and you get used to a certain way to build solutions, > regardless if they are virtual or real-life solutions. Depending on your > real life, the personal structure and the way you grew up this effect may be > stronger or weaker, or not existent at all. > > If you follow a discussion between Unix system administrators, Oracle PL/SQL > gurus and GUI visual basic developers you can see with a trained eye that > there > a big differences in thinking and the way solutions are approached. If you > look at the way a everyday C++ OOP programmers approaches a discussion > you'll > see the design of abstract data structures while the programmer talks. Of > course, > not every programmer, not every time. But I'm sure there is a tendency > (since > I see this every day...). I would say there is a straight relation between > lines > of code and style of speech... :-) If I remember my old 6502 ASSEMBLER > times... > I must have been talking like a hacker... *grin* > > So, since you solve problems in Python in a different way than, say, C++, > a project which switches to Python should get a different style in > discussing, > problem solving and doing. > > Is there a difference? You know the answer! Share it! I share basically the same evalutation. But then I'm a confessing Python fanatic. Well, one start by pointing out what the biggest differences between Python, C++ and Java are. IMHO, most people tend to overlook that, as an example see the close association between Java and C++, which is not based on the language semantics, but just pure syntactic sugar. This DOES influences heavily what can be done with a language. For example I'm doing at the moment some work on Adaption based software design, and my ideas are basically not expressible in C++ (I did some small benchmarks, to prove that the clever Python design can be faster than the naive C++ solution. The clever solution is not really generally doable in C++, because it does rely upon garbage-collection and weak references). I'm not sure if this is something that Andrew is interested for his talk. (It's not business oriented, it's more on the pushing ideas stage at the moment) Andreas From magnus@thinkware.se Thu Apr 24 12:15:03 2003 From: magnus@thinkware.se (Magnus =?iso-8859-1?Q?Lyck=E5?=) Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 13:15:03 +0200 Subject: [EuroPython] Only three talks? Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20030424124410.02656de8@www.thinkware.se> There are still only three talks on http://www.europython.org/sessions/talks even though the "No fixed day yet"-issue was dealt with. I though M-A and others had talks in the system as well! Where are they? More Plone problems? BTW, I'm also interested in Andrew's not-entirely-python-related talks. After all, dealing with human beings in a productive way is probably more important for most software projects than the choice of programming language, but I agree that these things are interconnected, that the choice of language can affect the "soft" issues. In general, it's about time for me (and others too I guess) to decide whether to go or not, and I'd certainly like more substance before I decide. (It starts to sound good from the mails on this list, but I imagine we also want to attract some people who don't subscribe to the mailing list...) BTW, is Guido coming? IIRC he's the reason it was placed in June, not in the autumn. If he is coming, I think that should be clearly advertised. What about Twisted people? Anyone heard anything? -- Magnus Lycka (It's really Lyckå), magnus@thinkware.se Thinkware AB, Sweden, www.thinkware.se I code Python ~ The shortest path from thought to working program From tom@aragne.com Thu Apr 24 12:42:58 2003 From: tom@aragne.com (Tom Deprez) Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 13:42:58 +0200 Subject: [EuroPython] Only three talks? References: <5.2.1.1.0.20030424124410.02656de8@www.thinkware.se> Message-ID: <02a501c30a56$a75274d0$b36da8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> Magnus Lyckå wrote: > There are still only three talks on > http://www.europython.org/sessions/talks even though the "No fixed > day yet"-issue was dealt with. I though M-A and others had talks in > the system as well! Where are they? More Plone problems? Plone problems? It isn't even a plone site. People proposed to make a plone site, but it is still the old ad-hoc site of last year. The talks you see are only *approved* talks. These are the talks which the chairman have accepted. > BTW, I'm also interested in Andrew's not-entirely-python-related > talks. After all, dealing with human beings in a productive way is > probably more important for most software projects than the choice of > programming language, but I agree that these things are > interconnected, that the choice of language can affect the "soft" > issues. I don't mind. I would like to see such talks as well. Since we've lot's of slots (even more than last year), I think we can even provide several slots for these kind of talks. > In general, it's about time for me (and others too I guess) to decide > whether to go or not, and I'd certainly like more substance before I > decide. (It starts to sound good from the mails on this list, but I > imagine we also want to attract some people who don't subscribe to > the mailing list...) hehe, we're doing what we can do... It's up to the chairman to accept talks and only these talks are shown on the public site. We've sent a mail to every chairman, telling to start finilizing the talks they received. > BTW, is Guido coming? IIRC he's the reason it was placed in June, not > in the autumn. If he is coming, I think that should be clearly > advertised. Denis told me Guido was coming. Is it confirmed? I don't really know. But I guess it is, since Denis told me he comes. That's all I know about it. > What about Twisted people? Anyone heard anything? Tom. From mwh@python.net Thu Apr 24 12:56:20 2003 From: mwh@python.net (Michael Hudson) Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 12:56:20 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Only three talks? In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.0.20030424124410.02656de8@www.thinkware.se> (Magnus =?iso-8859-1?q?Lyck=E5's?= message of "Thu, 24 Apr 2003 13:15:03 +0200") References: <5.2.1.1.0.20030424124410.02656de8@www.thinkware.se> Message-ID: <2mr87s153v.fsf@starship.python.net> Magnus Lyck=E5 writes: > There are still only three talks on http://www.europython.org/sessions/ta= lks > even though the "No fixed day yet"-issue was dealt with. I though M-A and > others had talks in the system as well! Where are they? Talks that are "new", as opposed to "accepted" or "rejected" are not shown. > More Plone problems? There have been no Plone problems so far, for a very good reason :-) > BTW, is Guido coming?=20 Yes. > IIRC he's the reason it was placed in June, not in the autumn. If he > is coming, I think that should be clearly advertised. > > What about Twisted people? Anyone heard anything? Moshe will be there (and giving half of the conference if we let him :-) but I don't think any of the others can make it. Of course, noone is "coming" yet, as registration hasn't opened yet... Anyone who is planning to attend is most welcome to add themselves to http://www.europython.org/wiki/WhoIsAttending2003 Cheers, M. --=20 The Internet is full. Go away. -- http://www.disobey.com/devilshat/ds011101.htm From Nicolas.Chauvat@logilab.fr Thu Apr 24 12:56:55 2003 From: Nicolas.Chauvat@logilab.fr (Nicolas Chauvat) Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 13:56:55 +0200 Subject: [EuroPython] Only three talks? In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.0.20030424124410.02656de8@www.thinkware.se> References: <5.2.1.1.0.20030424124410.02656de8@www.thinkware.se> Message-ID: <20030424115655.GA16502@logilab.fr> On Thu, Apr 24, 2003 at 01:15:03PM +0200, Magnus Lyckå wrote: > There are still only three talks on http://www.europython.org/sessions/talks > even though the "No fixed day yet"-issue was dealt with. I though M-A and > others had talks in the system as well! Where are they? More Plone problems? Unfortunately, we're not using Plone for EP website. So this can not be related to Plone having problems... -- Nicolas Chauvat http://www.logilab.com - "Mais où est donc Ornicar ?" - LOGILAB, Paris (France) From Nicolas.Chauvat@logilab.fr Thu Apr 24 13:01:33 2003 From: Nicolas.Chauvat@logilab.fr (Nicolas Chauvat) Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 14:01:33 +0200 Subject: [EuroPython] change in talks admin interface Message-ID: <20030424120133.GB16502@logilab.fr> Hi, There used to be a dropdown list on http://www.europython.org/Talks/Admin to could be used to restrict the listed talks to a track. For example there are 30 "new" talks and I can't see in a glimpse which ones are for Python & Science. I miss this feature, where did it go ? Could it be put back, please ? -- Nicolas Chauvat http://www.logilab.com - "Mais où est donc Ornicar ?" - LOGILAB, Paris (France) From Nicolas.Chauvat@logilab.fr Thu Apr 24 13:05:42 2003 From: Nicolas.Chauvat@logilab.fr (Nicolas Chauvat) Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 14:05:42 +0200 Subject: [EuroPython] weird things in the talks admin interface Message-ID: <20030424120542.GC16502@logilab.fr> The feature I just mentionned does not appear on /Talks/Admin but does appear in Talks/listForm?year=2003. I guess that's all I need. -- Nicolas Chauvat http://www.logilab.com - "Mais où est donc Ornicar ?" - LOGILAB, Paris (France) From tom@aragne.com Thu Apr 24 13:14:11 2003 From: tom@aragne.com (Tom Deprez) Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 14:14:11 +0200 Subject: [EuroPython] Only three talks? References: <5.2.1.1.0.20030424124410.02656de8@www.thinkware.se> <20030424115655.GA16502@logilab.fr> Message-ID: <033701c30a5b$037b74b0$b36da8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> >> There are still only three talks on >> http://www.europython.org/sessions/talks even though the "No fixed >> day yet"-issue was dealt with. I though M-A and others had talks in >> the system as well! Where are they? More Plone problems? > > Unfortunately, we're not using Plone for EP website. So this can not > be related to Plone having problems... I'm still waiting for the people who proposed to make the site in Plone ;-) Tom. From Nicolas.Chauvat@logilab.fr Thu Apr 24 13:17:18 2003 From: Nicolas.Chauvat@logilab.fr (Nicolas Chauvat) Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 14:17:18 +0200 Subject: [EuroPython] Only three talks? In-Reply-To: <033701c30a5b$037b74b0$b36da8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> References: <5.2.1.1.0.20030424124410.02656de8@www.thinkware.se> <20030424115655.GA16502@logilab.fr> <033701c30a5b$037b74b0$b36da8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> Message-ID: <20030424121718.GF16502@logilab.fr> On Thu, Apr 24, 2003 at 02:14:11PM +0200, Tom Deprez wrote: > >> There are still only three talks on > >> http://www.europython.org/sessions/talks even though the "No fixed > >> day yet"-issue was dealt with. I though M-A and others had talks in > >> the system as well! Where are they? More Plone problems? > > > > Unfortunately, we're not using Plone for EP website. So this can not > > be related to Plone having problems... > > I'm still waiting for the people who proposed to make the site in Plone ;-) I'll think about it for next year. But when I first offered to do so, if I recall correctly, you said 'no way, since there is no need to'. What is sure is that I will definitely not have time within the next two months and will happily live with what we have now... -- Nicolas Chauvat http://www.logilab.com - "Mais où est donc Ornicar ?" - LOGILAB, Paris (France) From tom@aragne.com Thu Apr 24 13:29:31 2003 From: tom@aragne.com (Tom Deprez) Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 14:29:31 +0200 Subject: [EuroPython] Only three talks? References: <5.2.1.1.0.20030424124410.02656de8@www.thinkware.se> <20030424115655.GA16502@logilab.fr> <033701c30a5b$037b74b0$b36da8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> <20030424121718.GF16502@logilab.fr> Message-ID: <038301c30a5d$28384b00$b36da8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> Nicolas Chauvat wrote: > On Thu, Apr 24, 2003 at 02:14:11PM +0200, Tom Deprez wrote: >>>> There are still only three talks on >>>> http://www.europython.org/sessions/talks even though the "No fixed >>>> day yet"-issue was dealt with. I though M-A and others had talks in >>>> the system as well! Where are they? More Plone problems? >>> >>> Unfortunately, we're not using Plone for EP website. So this can not >>> be related to Plone having problems... >> >> I'm still waiting for the people who proposed to make the site in >> Plone ;-) > > I'll think about it for next year. Great. > But when I first offered to do so, if I recall correctly, you said 'no way, since there is no need to'. Correct. Also in the light that I wouldn't do it, since I don't have enough Plone experience. And I didn't wanted to be sticked with all the work. If I recall correctly I also said : 'go ahead' to the people proposing it. If something was made We surely would have replaced the existing site. Anyhow, we are now talking after the facts, let's try to make something of it. :-) > What is sure is that I will definitely not have time within the next > two months and will happily live with what we have now... Tom. From tom@aragne.com Thu Apr 24 13:31:45 2003 From: tom@aragne.com (Tom Deprez) Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 14:31:45 +0200 Subject: [EuroPython] EP 2004 ? Message-ID: <038b01c30a5d$77b235b0$b36da8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> Hi all, In the light of the comming EP2003, I wonder if there are people interested in organising it next year. If there are lots of countries, we better know it in front, so that at the conference connections and decisions can be made. Just a tought. Regards, Tom From Nicolas.Chauvat@logilab.fr Thu Apr 24 13:40:55 2003 From: Nicolas.Chauvat@logilab.fr (Nicolas Chauvat) Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 14:40:55 +0200 Subject: [EuroPython] python in science and industry... Message-ID: <20030424124055.GI16502@logilab.fr> has now 6 accepted talks. Said it just to make Magnus feel more confident about the whole thing ;-) -- Nicolas Chauvat http://www.logilab.com - "Mais où est donc Ornicar ?" - LOGILAB, Paris (France) From mal@lemburg.com Thu Apr 24 13:44:11 2003 From: mal@lemburg.com (M.-A. Lemburg) Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 14:44:11 +0200 Subject: [EuroPython] EP 2004 ? In-Reply-To: <038b01c30a5d$77b235b0$b36da8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> References: <038b01c30a5d$77b235b0$b36da8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> Message-ID: <3EA7DC1B.4090501@lemburg.com> Tom Deprez wrote: > Hi all, > > In the light of the comming EP2003, I wonder if there are people interested > in organising it next year. If there are lots of countries, we better know > it in front, so that at the conference connections and decisions can be > made. > > Just a tought. And a good one :-) Charleroi is still my favorite, but I guess you and Denis aren't going to go for another round which I can perfectly understand. Tim Couper told me about the possibility to do such an event in or near Oxford, UK, using college factilities. At the current pricing scheme, college or university grounds are probably the only affordable sites for the conference. -- Marc-Andre Lemburg eGenix.com Professional Python Software directly from the Source (#1, Apr 24 2003) >>> Python/Zope Products & Consulting ... http://www.egenix.com/ >>> mxODBC, mxDateTime, mxTextTools ... http://python.egenix.com/ ________________________________________________________________________ EuroPython 2003, Charleroi, Belgium: 61 days left From lac@strakt.com Thu Apr 24 13:33:50 2003 From: lac@strakt.com (Laura Creighton) Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 14:33:50 +0200 Subject: [EuroPython] Only three talks? In-Reply-To: Message from Magnus =?iso-8859-1?Q?Lyck=E5?= of "Thu, 24 Apr 2003 13:15:03 +0200." <5.2.1.1.0.20030424124410.02656de8@www.thinkware.se> References: <5.2.1.1.0.20030424124410.02656de8@www.thinkware.se> Message-ID: <200304241233.h3OCXonc025023@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> In a message of Thu, 24 Apr 2003 13:15:03 +0200, Magnus Lyckå writes: >There are still only three talks on http://www.europython.org/sessions/ta >lks >even though the "No fixed day yet"-issue was dealt with. I though M-A and >others had talks in the system as well! Where are they? More Plone proble >ms? There are problems, but I don't think with Plone. >BTW, is Guido coming? IIRC he's the reason it was placed in June, not in >the autumn. If he is coming, I think that should be clearly advertised. Yes. > >What about Twisted people? Anyone heard anything? Moshe Zadka is coming and giving a bunch of talks. > > >-- >Magnus Lycka (It's really Lyckå), magnus@thinkware.se >Thinkware AB, Sweden, www.thinkware.se >I code Python ~ The shortest path from thought to working program Laura Creighton From magnus@thinkware.se Thu Apr 24 17:38:48 2003 From: magnus@thinkware.se (Magnus =?iso-8859-1?Q?Lyck=E5?=) Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 18:38:48 +0200 Subject: [EuroPython] Only three talks? In-Reply-To: <20030424115655.GA16502@logilab.fr> References: <5.2.1.1.0.20030424124410.02656de8@www.thinkware.se> <5.2.1.1.0.20030424124410.02656de8@www.thinkware.se> Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20030424183734.00bdad20@www.thinkware.se> At 13:56 2003-04-24 +0200, Nicolas Chauvat wrote: >Unfortunately, we're not using Plone for EP website. So this can not be >related to Plone having problems... Maybe that *is* out Plone problem? ;) (I was obviously confusing things with the pbf site.) -- Magnus Lycka (It's really Lyckå), magnus@thinkware.se Thinkware AB, Sweden, www.thinkware.se I code Python ~ The shortest path from thought to working program From tom@aragne.com Thu Apr 24 17:43:06 2003 From: tom@aragne.com (Tom Deprez) Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 18:43:06 +0200 Subject: [EuroPython] Only three talks? References: <5.2.1.1.0.20030424124410.02656de8@www.thinkware.se> <5.2.1.1.0.20030424124410.02656de8@www.thinkware.se> <5.2.1.1.0.20030424183734.00bdad20@www.thinkware.se> Message-ID: <04d001c30a80$94ffce70$b36da8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> Magnus Lyckå wrote: > At 13:56 2003-04-24 +0200, Nicolas Chauvat wrote: >> Unfortunately, we're not using Plone for EP website. So this can not >> be related to Plone having problems... > > Maybe that *is* out Plone problem? ;) As told. Go ahead and prepare a Plone site for the EP conference. We would gladly accept every input. T. From Nicolas.Chauvat@logilab.fr Thu Apr 24 17:51:12 2003 From: Nicolas.Chauvat@logilab.fr (Nicolas Chauvat) Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 18:51:12 +0200 Subject: [EuroPython] Only three talks? In-Reply-To: <04d001c30a80$94ffce70$b36da8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> References: <5.2.1.1.0.20030424124410.02656de8@www.thinkware.se> <5.2.1.1.0.20030424124410.02656de8@www.thinkware.se> <5.2.1.1.0.20030424183734.00bdad20@www.thinkware.se> <04d001c30a80$94ffce70$b36da8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> Message-ID: <20030424165112.GC26759@logilab.fr> On Thu, Apr 24, 2003 at 06:43:06PM +0200, Tom Deprez wrote: > Magnus Lyckå wrote: > > At 13:56 2003-04-24 +0200, Nicolas Chauvat wrote: > >> Unfortunately, we're not using Plone for EP website. So this can not > >> be related to Plone having problems... > > > > Maybe that *is* out Plone problem? ;) > > As told. Go ahead and prepare a Plone site for the EP conference. We would > gladly accept every input. I think he was joking... -- Nicolas Chauvat http://www.logilab.com - "Mais où est donc Ornicar ?" - LOGILAB, Paris (France) From magnus@thinkware.se Fri Apr 25 15:43:56 2003 From: magnus@thinkware.se (Magnus =?iso-8859-1?Q?Lyck=E5?=) Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 16:43:56 +0200 Subject: [EuroPython] Only three talks? In-Reply-To: <20030424165112.GC26759@logilab.fr> References: <04d001c30a80$94ffce70$b36da8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> <5.2.1.1.0.20030424124410.02656de8@www.thinkware.se> <5.2.1.1.0.20030424124410.02656de8@www.thinkware.se> <5.2.1.1.0.20030424183734.00bdad20@www.thinkware.se> <04d001c30a80$94ffce70$b36da8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20030425121525.02635210@www.thinkware.se> At 18:51 2003-04-24 +0200, Nicolas Chauvat wrote: >On Thu, Apr 24, 2003 at 06:43:06PM +0200, Tom Deprez wrote: > > Magnus Lyck=E5 wrote: > > > Maybe that *is* out Plone problem? ;) > > > > As told. Go ahead and prepare a Plone site for the EP conference. We= would > > gladly accept every input. > >I think he was joking... Yes I was (although not very successully it seems). Thus the ";)". I also managed to spell "our" with a "t", which might have increased the confusion. I imagine Plone is a fine product, but my experience so far has mainly been one of confusion. It might be slightly too feature rich for my taste... (I might also have come across sites that used a not quite finished product. I see that there is a 1.0 release by now...) On the other hand, maybe a Plone tutorial as EP will change my opinion... BTW, it seems that there will be plenty of talks after all, and I'm starting to get rather excited about this, after some hesitation. Now there are seven talks on http://www.europython.org/sessions/talks . Then Guido will talk and at least Andy, Andrew, Christian, Juergen and Stefan have said on the list that they have talks. If all these talks will be advertized on the web site soon, I'd better hurry up and make a reservation, or it might get full... (I know, reservations haven't started...) Have a nice weekend! (Especially those of you who will spend it writing abstracts and approving talks... ;) /Magnus -- Magnus Lycka (It's really Lyckå), magnus@thinkware.se Thinkware AB, Sweden, www.thinkware.se I code Python ~ The shortest path from thought to working program=20 From mal@lemburg.com Mon Apr 28 10:50:20 2003 From: mal@lemburg.com (M.-A. Lemburg) Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2003 11:50:20 +0200 Subject: [EuroPython] Lightning Talks & Schedule Message-ID: <3EACF95C.3040109@lemburg.com> Tim and I have just reviewed the talks in the business track. While working on that we found that there seems to be no "Lightning Talks" track manager around. Who is running that event ? We also noted that the "Python in Industry" accepted talks don't have a day or time attached to them. As a result, the talks page looks rather weird: http://www.europython.org/sessions/talks -- Marc-Andre Lemburg eGenix.com Professional Python Software directly from the Source (#1, Apr 28 2003) >>> Python/Zope Products & Consulting ... http://www.egenix.com/ >>> mxODBC, mxDateTime, mxTextTools ... http://python.egenix.com/ ________________________________________________________________________ EuroPython 2003, Charleroi, Belgium: 57 days left From mwh@python.net Mon Apr 28 17:13:11 2003 From: mwh@python.net (Michael Hudson) Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2003 17:13:11 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Lightning Talks & Schedule In-Reply-To: <3EACF95C.3040109@lemburg.com> ("M.-A. Lemburg"'s message of "Mon, 28 Apr 2003 11:50:20 +0200") References: <3EACF95C.3040109@lemburg.com> Message-ID: <2mr87mwqg8.fsf@starship.python.net> "M.-A. Lemburg" writes: > Tim and I have just reviewed the talks in the business track. While > working on that we found that there seems to be no "Lightning Talks" > track manager around. Who is running that event ? Whoever doesn't run away fast enough. It shouldn't take too much organization, should it? > We also noted that the "Python in Industry" accepted talks don't > have a day or time attached to them. As a result, the talks > page looks rather weird: > > http://www.europython.org/sessions/talks Well, last time anyone told me, we hadn't fixed which tracks were in which rooms at which times. Which makes assigning times to talks tricky. Cheers, M. -- All obscurity will buy you is time enough to contract venereal diseases. -- Tim Peters, python-dev From mal@lemburg.com Mon Apr 28 17:24:19 2003 From: mal@lemburg.com (M.-A. Lemburg) Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2003 18:24:19 +0200 Subject: [EuroPython] Lightning Talks & Schedule In-Reply-To: <2mr87mwqg8.fsf@starship.python.net> References: <3EACF95C.3040109@lemburg.com> <2mr87mwqg8.fsf@starship.python.net> Message-ID: <3EAD55B3.60204@lemburg.com> Michael Hudson wrote: > "M.-A. Lemburg" writes: > > >>Tim and I have just reviewed the talks in the business track. While >>working on that we found that there seems to be no "Lightning Talks" >>track manager around. Who is running that event ? > > Whoever doesn't run away fast enough. It shouldn't take too much > organization, should it? I'm not volunteering, just thougt I'd ask :-) >>We also noted that the "Python in Industry" accepted talks don't >>have a day or time attached to them. As a result, the talks >>page looks rather weird: >> >> http://www.europython.org/sessions/talks > > Well, last time anyone told me, we hadn't fixed which tracks were in > which rooms at which times. Which makes assigning times to talks > tricky. Tom told me that the business track has day 2, room A. I'd suggest to do lightning talks on day 3 afternoon -- they are usually a popular event and would make a great conference closing. -- Marc-Andre Lemburg eGenix.com Professional Python Software directly from the Source (#1, Apr 28 2003) >>> Python/Zope Products & Consulting ... http://www.egenix.com/ >>> mxODBC, mxDateTime, mxTextTools ... http://python.egenix.com/ ________________________________________________________________________ EuroPython 2003, Charleroi, Belgium: 57 days left From mwh@python.net Mon Apr 28 17:38:24 2003 From: mwh@python.net (Michael Hudson) Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2003 17:38:24 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Lightning Talks & Schedule In-Reply-To: <3EAD55B3.60204@lemburg.com> ("M.-A. Lemburg"'s message of "Mon, 28 Apr 2003 18:24:19 +0200") References: <3EACF95C.3040109@lemburg.com> <2mr87mwqg8.fsf@starship.python.net> <3EAD55B3.60204@lemburg.com> Message-ID: <2mof2qwpa7.fsf@starship.python.net> "M.-A. Lemburg" writes: > Michael Hudson wrote: >> "M.-A. Lemburg" writes: >> >>>Tim and I have just reviewed the talks in the business track. While >>>working on that we found that there seems to be no "Lightning Talks" >>>track manager around. Who is running that event ? >> Whoever doesn't run away fast enough. It shouldn't take too much >> organization, should it? > > I'm not volunteering, just thougt I'd ask :-) We've just caught a volunteer on #europython :-) >>>We also noted that the "Python in Industry" accepted talks don't >>>have a day or time attached to them. As a result, the talks >>>page looks rather weird: >>> >>> http://www.europython.org/sessions/talks >> Well, last time anyone told me, we hadn't fixed which tracks were in >> which rooms at which times. Which makes assigning times to talks >> tricky. > > Tom told me that the business track has day 2, room A. I'd suggest > to do lightning talks on day 3 afternoon -- they are usually a > popular event and would make a great conference closing. I think this is the current plan. Cheers, M. -- Premature optimization is the root of all evil. -- Donald E. Knuth, Structured Programming with goto Statements From Tom Deprez" Hi all, We've two brave volunteers willing to handle the Lightning talks (LT's) ! The lightning talks will be scheduled for day3. It would be nice that the chairman will forward their LT's to these people so they can schedule it for the LT-track. You can mail your LT's to rev_anna_r@yahoo.com and/or eplt@moshez.org Regards, Tom From rev_anna_r@yahoo.com Mon Apr 28 18:53:33 2003 From: rev_anna_r@yahoo.com (Anna Ravenscroft) Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2003 10:53:33 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [EuroPython] Lightning talks In-Reply-To: <003901c30da9$0f8367d0$8901a8c0@skullsplitter> Message-ID: <20030428175333.57409.qmail@web12306.mail.yahoo.com> --- Tom Deprez wrote: > Hi all, > > We've two brave volunteers willing to handle the Lightning talks > (LT's)! The lightning talks will be scheduled for day3. Greetings: We've scheduled LTs for day3 morning. day3 afternon will be set aside for Open Space programming (which should wind things down nicely...) > It would be nice that the chairman will forward their LT's to > these people so they can schedule it for the LT-track. > You can mail your LT's to rev_anna_r@yahoo.com and/or eplt@moshez.org It's best if you could cc both of us on this. Thanks. Cordially, Anna Ravenscroft __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com From Tom Deprez" Hi, A preliminary time-schedule is available at: http://www.europython.org/sessions/timeschedule Updates soon to come. Regards, Tom. From gotcha@swing.be Mon Apr 28 22:29:42 2003 From: gotcha@swing.be (Godefroid Chapelle) Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2003 23:29:42 +0200 Subject: [EuroPython] Time-Schedule In-Reply-To: <020e01c30dca$f1deef20$8901a8c0@skullsplitter> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20030428232838.01ff5840@pop.swing.be> At 23:07 28/04/2003, Tom Deprez wrote: >Hi, > >A preliminary time-schedule is available at: >http://www.europython.org/sessions/timeschedule Once again, impressive work done by one of our two grand organizers. Thanks a lot Tom and Denis. >Updates soon to come. > >Regards, >Tom. -- Godefroid Chapelle BubbleNet sprl rue Victor Horta, 18 / 202 1348 Louvain-la-Neuve Belgium Tel + 32 (10) 459901 TVA 467 093 008 RC Niv 49849 From rev_anna_r@yahoo.com Tue Apr 29 03:23:44 2003 From: rev_anna_r@yahoo.com (Anna Ravenscroft) Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2003 19:23:44 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [EuroPython] Time-Schedule In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20030428232838.01ff5840@pop.swing.be> Message-ID: <20030429022344.51182.qmail@web12306.mail.yahoo.com> --- Godefroid Chapelle wrote: > At 23:07 28/04/2003, Tom Deprez wrote: > >Hi, > > > >A preliminary time-schedule is available at: > >http://www.europython.org/sessions/timeschedule > > > Once again, impressive work done by one of our two grand organizers. Yes - very professional appearance. Thanks for all your hard work Tom! Anna __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com From dario@ita.chalmers.se Tue Apr 29 14:03:59 2003 From: dario@ita.chalmers.se (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Dario_Lopez-K=E4sten?=) Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 15:03:59 +0200 Subject: [EuroPython] EP 2004 ? References: <038b01c30a5d$77b235b0$b36da8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> <3EA7DC1B.4090501@lemburg.com> Message-ID: <032101c30e4f$ccc2a760$2235b5d4@WALTER> Hm... I have organised external conferences here in Gothenburg, Sweden, at Chalmers University of Technology (the uni where I work) before, and we have fairly decent and nice conference facilities. Prices are reasonable even for external (non-Chalmers) conferences. If there is interest, I'd be happy to start some enquiries. /dario ----- Original Message ----- From: "M.-A. Lemburg" To: "Tom Deprez" Cc: Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2003 2:44 PM Subject: Re: [EuroPython] EP 2004 ? > Tom Deprez wrote: > > Hi all, > > > > In the light of the comming EP2003, I wonder if there are people interested > > in organising it next year. If there are lots of countries, we better know > > it in front, so that at the conference connections and decisions can be > > made. > > > > Just a tought. > > And a good one :-) Charleroi is still my favorite, but I guess > you and Denis aren't going to go for another round which I can > perfectly understand. > > Tim Couper told me about the possibility to do such an event in or > near Oxford, UK, using college factilities. At the current pricing > scheme, college or university grounds are probably the only > affordable sites for the conference. > > -- > Marc-Andre Lemburg > eGenix.com > > Professional Python Software directly from the Source (#1, Apr 24 2003) > >>> Python/Zope Products & Consulting ... http://www.egenix.com/ > >>> mxODBC, mxDateTime, mxTextTools ... http://python.egenix.com/ > ________________________________________________________________________ > EuroPython 2003, Charleroi, Belgium: 61 days left From mal@lemburg.com Tue Apr 29 14:16:21 2003 From: mal@lemburg.com (M.-A. Lemburg) Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 15:16:21 +0200 Subject: [EuroPython] EP 2004 ? In-Reply-To: <032101c30e4f$ccc2a760$2235b5d4@WALTER> References: <038b01c30a5d$77b235b0$b36da8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> <3EA7DC1B.4090501@lemburg.com> <032101c30e4f$ccc2a760$2235b5d4@WALTER> Message-ID: <3EAE7B25.3080700@lemburg.com> Dario Lopez-K=E4sten wrote: > Hm... I have organised external conferences here in Gothenburg, Sweden,= at > Chalmers University of Technology (the uni where I work) before, and we= have > fairly decent and nice conference facilities. Prices are reasonable eve= n for > external (non-Chalmers) conferences. >=20 > If there is interest, I'd be happy to start some enquiries. Sounds like a good idea. The only question I have is about travel -- how easy is getting there by train/plan/car ? > /dario >=20 > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "M.-A. Lemburg" > To: "Tom Deprez" > Cc: > Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2003 2:44 PM > Subject: Re: [EuroPython] EP 2004 ? >=20 >=20 >=20 >>Tom Deprez wrote: >> >>>Hi all, >>> >>>In the light of the comming EP2003, I wonder if there are people >=20 > interested >=20 >>>in organising it next year. If there are lots of countries, we better >=20 > know >=20 >>>it in front, so that at the conference connections and decisions can b= e >>>made. >>> >>>Just a tought. >> >>And a good one :-) Charleroi is still my favorite, but I guess >>you and Denis aren't going to go for another round which I can >>perfectly understand. >> >>Tim Couper told me about the possibility to do such an event in or >>near Oxford, UK, using college factilities. At the current pricing >>scheme, college or university grounds are probably the only >>affordable sites for the conference. >> >>-- >>Marc-Andre Lemburg >>eGenix.com >> >>Professional Python Software directly from the Source (#1, Apr 24 2003= ) >> >>> Python/Zope Products & Consulting ... http://www.egenix.co= m/ >> >>> mxODBC, mxDateTime, mxTextTools ... http://python.egenix.co= m/ >>_______________________________________________________________________= _ >>EuroPython 2003, Charleroi, Belgium: 61 days lef= t --=20 Marc-Andre Lemburg eGenix.com Professional Python Software directly from the Source (#1, Apr 29 2003) >>> Python/Zope Products & Consulting ... http://www.egenix.com/ >>> mxODBC, mxDateTime, mxTextTools ... http://python.egenix.com/ ________________________________________________________________________ EuroPython 2003, Charleroi, Belgium: 56 days left From mwh@python.net Tue Apr 29 14:22:57 2003 From: mwh@python.net (Michael Hudson) Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 14:22:57 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] EP 2004 ? In-Reply-To: <3EAE7B25.3080700@lemburg.com> ("M.-A. Lemburg"'s message of "Tue, 29 Apr 2003 15:16:21 +0200") References: <038b01c30a5d$77b235b0$b36da8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> <3EA7DC1B.4090501@lemburg.com> <032101c30e4f$ccc2a760$2235b5d4@WALTER> <3EAE7B25.3080700@lemburg.com> Message-ID: <2m1xzl4evi.fsf@starship.python.net> "M.-A. Lemburg" writes: > Dario Lopez-K=E4sten wrote: >> Hm... I have organised external conferences here in Gothenburg, Sweden, = at >> Chalmers University of Technology (the uni where I work) before, and we = have >> fairly decent and nice conference facilities. Prices are reasonable even= for >> external (non-Chalmers) conferences. >> If there is interest, I'd be happy to start some enquiries. > > Sounds like a good idea. The only question I have is about > travel -- how easy is getting there by train/plan/car ? Ryanair fly from Stansted. Germany -> Stansted -> Gothenburg may sound silly, but it's probably quite cheap. Also, the ferry is apparently a viable option. We should definitely have a face-to-face discussion about EP2004 at EP2003. One of the open space sessions at the end of day 3? Cheers, M. --=20 CLiki pages can be edited by anybody at any time. Imagine the most fearsomely comprehensive legal disclaimer you have ever seen, and double it -- http://ww.telent.net/cliki/index From lac@strakt.com Tue Apr 29 14:43:55 2003 From: lac@strakt.com (Laura Creighton) Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 15:43:55 +0200 Subject: [EuroPython] EP 2004 ? In-Reply-To: Message from "M.-A. Lemburg" of "Tue, 29 Apr 2003 15:16:21 +0200." <3EAE7B25.3080700@lemburg.com> References: <038b01c30a5d$77b235b0$b36da8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> <3EA7DC1B.4090501@lemburg.com> <032101c30e4f$ccc2a760$2235b5d4@WALTER> <3EAE7B25.3080700@lemburg.com> Message-ID: <200304291343.h3TDhtnc012448@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> In a message of Tue, 29 Apr 2003 15:16:21 +0200, "M.-A. Lemburg" writes: >Dario Lopez-Kästen wrote: >> Hm... I have organised external conferences here in Gothenburg, Sweden, > at >> Chalmers University of Technology (the uni where I work) before, and we > have >> fairly decent and nice conference facilities. Prices are reasonable eve >n for >> external (non-Chalmers) conferences. >> >> If there is interest, I'd be happy to start some enquiries. > >Sounds like a good idea. The only question I have is about >travel -- how easy is getting there by train/plan/car ? > >> /dario >Marc-Andre Lemburg >eGenix.com Plane is easy. Ryan Air from Stansted, Charleroi, or Hamburg or an airfield near Frankfurt for the inexpensive route, to the minor airport (G?teborg-City). Direct flights to Landvetter, the major airport, via the major airlines from Paris, Frankfurt, Amsterdam, Copenhagen, and others I have forgotten. see: http://www.lfv.se/site/airports/landvetter/eng/index.asp Train and car from Copenhagen also fast and easy. Nice Ferry from Kiel. (and other places). http://www7.stenaline.com/servlet/se.ementor.econgero.servlet.presentation.Main?data.node.id=1&data.language.id=2 Gothenburg is the second largest city in Sweden, and Sweden's major port. You won't have any trouble getting here. Laura From magnus@thinkware.se Tue Apr 29 14:54:11 2003 From: magnus@thinkware.se (Magnus =?iso-8859-1?Q?Lyck=E5?=) Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 15:54:11 +0200 Subject: Where did the talks go? etc Was: Re: [EuroPython] Time-Schedule In-Reply-To: <20030429022344.51182.qmail@web12306.mail.yahoo.com> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20030428232838.01ff5840@pop.swing.be> Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20030429142459.00b4f278@www.thinkware.se> At 19:23 2003-04-28 -0700, Anna Ravenscroft wrote: > > Once again, impressive work done by one of our two grand organizers. > >Yes - very professional appearance. Thanks for all your hard work Tom! Agreed, this is looking better and better, day by day. But where did all the talks go? There was a bunch yesterday, and now none at all! It says "There won't be any talks available to public until the deadline of submission is over." which is May 12th. Won't you display anything until then? If you feel that you are getting more proposals than you can handle and must eliminate some, I can understand that you don't want to display things that you might end up removing, but I'd still like to know what talks I can hope to see as soon as possible, and I think others want that too... :) I don't know if I have a good solution though: It might not be fun to have been on the list and then to have disappeared. "So they ditched my talk for his talk... :(" Naturally I want the best talks, rather then the ones that were submitted first... It's also bad if people decide to come based on some talk that is subsequently replaced with something else I guess... Perhaps I will just have to restrain myself and think of the things I'm supposed to think of until after May 12... (Perhaps I should take a cold shower. I'm starting to feel like a child who can't wait until christmas. ;) Or could some "talks being considered" list be made available? Anyway... Something I realized that I'd like to see at Europython is a presentation or tutorial of recent changes in Python 2.2 and 2.3. Particularly how new classes work in practice with all bells and whistles. I've avoided them in 2.2 since I was a bit sceptical about using the first release of such a big change, but it seems they are getting fairly popular, and 2.3 is on it's way... I don't want my skills to get stale! :) Another subject which is typically ignored in python books, and very relevant in a European and business perspective is localization and internationalization. But I guess that's a subject for a little essay, rather than something for this mail... -- Magnus Lycka (It's really Lyckå), magnus@thinkware.se Thinkware AB, Sweden, www.thinkware.se I code Python ~ The shortest path from thought to working program From mwh@python.net Tue Apr 29 14:59:47 2003 From: mwh@python.net (Michael Hudson) Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 14:59:47 +0100 Subject: Where did the talks go? etc Was: Re: [EuroPython] Time-Schedule In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.0.20030429142459.00b4f278@www.thinkware.se> (Magnus =?iso-8859-1?q?Lyck=E5's?= message of "Tue, 29 Apr 2003 15:54:11 +0200") References: <5.1.0.14.2.20030428232838.01ff5840@pop.swing.be> <5.2.1.1.0.20030429142459.00b4f278@www.thinkware.se> Message-ID: <2mvfwx2ylo.fsf@starship.python.net> Magnus Lyck=E5 writes: > At 19:23 2003-04-28 -0700, Anna Ravenscroft wrote: >> > Once again, impressive work done by one of our two grand organizers. >> >>Yes - very professional appearance. Thanks for all your hard work Tom! > > Agreed, this is looking better and better, day by day. > > But where did all the talks go? There was a bunch yesterday, and > now none at all! Something's broken. Please hum light incidental music to yourself until the talks reappear :-) > Something I realized that I'd like to see at Europython is a presentation > or tutorial of recent changes in Python 2.2 and 2.3. Particularly how > new classes work in practice with all bells and whistles. Eh, I have a "why you should be excited about 2.*3*" talk lined up and another on metaclasses which are one of 2.2s big new features. I hope that will do! I actually suspect that quite a lot of the Python Language talks will implicitly or explicitly be about new-in-2.2 stuff. Cheers, M. --=20 I don't have any special knowledge of all this. In fact, I made all the above up, in the hope that it corresponds to reality. -- Mark Carroll, ucam.chat From tom@aragne.com Tue Apr 29 15:02:29 2003 From: tom@aragne.com (Tom Deprez) Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 16:02:29 +0200 Subject: [EuroPython] Re: Where did the talks go? etc References: <5.1.0.14.2.20030428232838.01ff5840@pop.swing.be> <5.2.1.1.0.20030429142459.00b4f278@www.thinkware.se> Message-ID: <04bc01c30e57$f8d61870$b36da8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> > But where did all the talks go? There was a bunch yesterday, and > now none at all! ouch... no, there is something wrong with the database. And at the moment we can't reach the person who created it :-(. Sorry. > It says "There won't be any talks available to public until the > deadline of submission is over." which is May 12th. Won't you display > anything until then? Nope. We'll try to fix it as soon as possible. It's such a bad timing. From mal@lemburg.com Tue Apr 29 15:07:20 2003 From: mal@lemburg.com (M.-A. Lemburg) Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 16:07:20 +0200 Subject: [EuroPython] EP 2004 ? In-Reply-To: <200304291343.h3TDhtnc012448@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> References: <038b01c30a5d$77b235b0$b36da8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> <3EA7DC1B.4090501@lemburg.com> <032101c30e4f$ccc2a760$2235b5d4@WALTER> <3EAE7B25.3080700@lemburg.com> <200304291343.h3TDhtnc012448@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> Message-ID: <3EAE8718.40601@lemburg.com> Laura Creighton wrote: > In a message of Tue, 29 Apr 2003 15:16:21 +0200, "M.-A. Lemburg" writes= : >=20 >>Dario Lopez-K=E4sten wrote: >> >>>Hm... I have organised external conferences here in Gothenburg, Sweden= , >> >>Sounds like a good idea. The only question I have is about >>travel -- how easy is getting there by train/plane/car ? >=20 > Plane is easy. Ryan Air from Stansted, Charleroi, or Hamburg or an > airfield near Frankfurt for the inexpensive route, to the minor > airport (G?teborg-City). Direct flights to Landvetter, the major > airport, via the major airlines from Paris, Frankfurt, Amsterdam, > Copenhagen, and others I have forgotten. see: > http://www.lfv.se/site/airports/landvetter/eng/index.asp >=20 > Train and car from Copenhagen also fast and easy. >=20 > Nice Ferry from Kiel. (and other places). > http://www7.stenaline.com/servlet/se.ementor.econgero.servlet.presentat= ion.Main?data.node.id=3D1&data.language.id=3D2 >=20 > Gothenburg is the second largest city in Sweden, and Sweden's major > port. You won't have any trouble getting here. Great ! Let's discuss this at in 58 days :-) --=20 Marc-Andre Lemburg eGenix.com Professional Python Software directly from the Source (#1, Apr 29 2003) >>> Python/Zope Products & Consulting ... http://www.egenix.com/ >>> mxODBC, mxDateTime, mxTextTools ... http://python.egenix.com/ ________________________________________________________________________ EuroPython 2003, Charleroi, Belgium: 56 days left From magnus@thinkware.se Tue Apr 29 15:43:32 2003 From: magnus@thinkware.se (Magnus =?iso-8859-1?Q?Lyck=E5?=) Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 16:43:32 +0200 Subject: [EuroPython] i18n and realted issues Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20030429155203.02693ea8@www.thinkware.se> A subject which is typically ignored in python books, and very relevant in a python business perspective is localization and internationalization. Honestly, I haven't tried very hard, but this seems a bit confusing for me in Python. (Not that I can say that it's better in other languages.) Is is just me, or do others feel the same? How important is this to people, and what could be done about it? Something to discuss at Europython 2003? (Are there plans for any BoFs etc.) This field contains a number of issues, from translation of messages to input and output of data formatted according to locale, and issues like Unicode and right-to-left text etc. It seems to me that this is far from ideal today. At least in Windows 2000, locale seems buggy: >>> locale.getdefaultlocale() ('sv_SE', 'cp1252') >>> locale.setlocale(locale.LC_ALL, '') 'Swedish_Sweden.1252' >>> locale.getlocale() ['Swedish_Sweden', '1252'] You see, they aren't the same! This leads to: >>> locale.resetlocale() Error: locale setting not supported Also, the example from the manual breaks: >>> locale.setlocale(locale.LC_ALL, 'de') Error: locale setting not supported Also note, that "some string".decode(locale.getlocale()[1]) won't work in Windows, but "some string".decode(locale.getdefaultlocale()[1]) will work. There is no code page called just '1252'. Certainly confusing and non-obvious to me. Not fun if we try to use non-default settings. How do we display dates and times according to locale? Does the new date module handle that? locale.atof and locale.format can at least display floats right. (I think.) To the extent that the code is there, it's just briefly described in the docs, and very little in all the Python books out there. Is this really such a peripheral issue? What about unicode and locale. They don't seem to get along extremely well today... For instance is seems x.sort(locale.strcoll) can't handle Unicode strings. Ok, in cas of doubt, refuse the temptation to guess. No one locale defines collation for all of unicode, but there will be more and more cases where we want to sort names from all over the world, with at least accents in place. How? locale.nl_langinfo is only available on some platforms... Etc etc. -- Magnus Lycka (It's really Lyckå), magnus@thinkware.se Thinkware AB, Sweden, www.thinkware.se I code Python ~ The shortest path from thought to working program From mal@lemburg.com Tue Apr 29 17:15:18 2003 From: mal@lemburg.com (M.-A. Lemburg) Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 18:15:18 +0200 Subject: [EuroPython] i18n and realted issues In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.0.20030429155203.02693ea8@www.thinkware.se> References: <5.2.1.1.0.20030429155203.02693ea8@www.thinkware.se> Message-ID: <3EAEA516.90302@lemburg.com> Magnus Lyck=E5 wrote: > A subject which is typically ignored in python books, and very relevant > in a python business perspective is localization and internationalizati= on. >=20 > Honestly, I haven't tried very hard, but this seems a bit confusing for > me in Python. (Not that I can say that it's better in other languages.) >=20 > Is is just me, or do others feel the same? >=20 > How important is this to people, and what could be done about it? Somet= hing > to discuss at Europython 2003? (Are there plans for any BoFs etc.) We can discuss many things, but would that make any difference ? Getting this right is a lot of work and I don't see any funding or interest from volunteers to get any of it done. > This field contains a number of issues, from translation of messages to > input and output of data formatted according to locale, and issues like > Unicode and right-to-left text etc. It seems to me that this is far fro= m > ideal today. At least in Windows 2000, locale seems buggy: > > >>> locale.getdefaultlocale() > ('sv_SE', 'cp1252') > >>> locale.setlocale(locale.LC_ALL, '') > 'Swedish_Sweden.1252' > >>> locale.getlocale() > ['Swedish_Sweden', '1252'] >=20 > You see, they aren't the same! This leads to: You're mixing character sets with locales here. > >>> locale.resetlocale() > Error: locale setting not supported >=20 > Also, the example from the manual breaks: > >>> locale.setlocale(locale.LC_ALL, 'de') > Error: locale setting not supported That's probably because your Windows version doesn't support the German locale. No surprise here :-) It should work on Linux which usually comes with all sorts of locale information. > Also note, that "some string".decode(locale.getlocale()[1]) won't work > in Windows, but "some string".decode(locale.getdefaultlocale()[1]) > will work. There is no code page called just '1252'. Certainly confusin= g > and non-obvious to me. Not fun if we try to use non-default settings. The codec registry only knows about "cp1252" because that's the standard name. We can't go about and add all possible aliases for each and every encoding out there. > How do we display dates and times according to locale? Does the new > date module handle that? locale.atof and locale.format can at least > display floats right. (I think.) >=20 > To the extent that the code is there, it's just briefly described in th= e > docs, and very little in all the Python books out there. Is this really > such a peripheral issue? Probably not too interesting to the US folks :-) Everybody else seems to be using their own little tool sets for this. > What about unicode and locale. They don't seem to get along extremely > well today... For instance is seems x.sort(locale.strcoll) can't handle > Unicode strings.=20 Right, collation support is still missing from the Unicode implementation. > Ok, in cas of doubt, refuse the temptation to guess. No > one locale defines collation for all of unicode, but there will be more > and more cases where we want to sort names from all over the world, wit= h > at least accents in place. How? Using the collation support defined in the Unicode standard (provided that someone writes the support code needed for the Python implementation). > locale.nl_langinfo is only available on some platforms... Etc etc. --=20 Marc-Andre Lemburg eGenix.com Professional Python Software directly from the Source (#1, Apr 29 2003) >>> Python/Zope Products & Consulting ... http://www.egenix.com/ >>> mxODBC, mxDateTime, mxTextTools ... http://python.egenix.com/ ________________________________________________________________________ EuroPython 2003, Charleroi, Belgium: 56 days left From magnus@thinkware.se Tue Apr 29 23:22:35 2003 From: magnus@thinkware.se (Magnus =?iso-8859-1?Q?Lyck=E5?=) Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 00:22:35 +0200 Subject: [EuroPython] i18n and realted issues In-Reply-To: <3EAEA516.90302@lemburg.com> References: <5.2.1.1.0.20030429155203.02693ea8@www.thinkware.se> <5.2.1.1.0.20030429155203.02693ea8@www.thinkware.se> Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20030429230922.026b6d58@www.thinkware.se> At 18:15 2003-04-29 +0200, M.-A. Lemburg wrote: >We can discuss many things, but would that make any difference ? >Getting this right is a lot of work and I don't see any funding >or interest from volunteers to get any of it done. I'm curious about how important people think this is. Does it have any significant impact on the viability of Python in business? It surprises me if French, German, Lithuanian and other European python programmers don't care about this. But if noone else cares I'll shut up until this really starts to cause me pain. I think i18n issues are more important for adminstrative systems aimed at end users, particularly in large companies where the same installation might cater to people working in different languages etc, than in the areas of scientists, programmers etc, where python is playing a bigger role today. >> >>> locale.getdefaultlocale() >>('sv_SE', 'cp1252') >> >>> locale.setlocale(locale.LC_ALL, '') >>'Swedish_Sweden.1252' >> >>> locale.getlocale() >>['Swedish_Sweden', '1252'] >>You see, they aren't the same! This leads to: > >You're mixing character sets with locales here. Read again. getdefaultlocale() and setlocale(LC_ALL, '') followed by getlocale() give different results. on Win 2000 and XP. The locale returned by getdefaultlocale is not recognized by the system, which causes resetlocale() to barf. Do you mean that a plain call to resetlocale() causes an exception on Windows 2000 and XP systems with vanilla Swedish settings because I misunderstood something? :) Is this a purely Swedish problem or are we "in good company"? It's easy to test: >>> import locale >>> locale.resetlocale() Does this work anywhere outside the U.S. of A? Surely the the second item in the locale tuple (which *should* be 'cp1252' on my system) is a character set! But what I get from setlocale(LC_ALL, ''); getlocale() is just '1252'. I'm assuming it's our friends in Redmond who caused this confusion. After all, if they had been good at following standards, it would say ['sv_SE', 'ISO8859-1'] instead, but this *is* after all one of the most important platforms today. I can't wait for Linux world domination... :) >That's probably because your Windows version doesn't support the >German locale. No surprise here :-) It should work on Linux which >usually comes with all sorts of locale information. Sure. Try it on a German Windows 2000 or XP system... At least here, I get... >>> locale.setlocale(locale.LC_ALL, 'sv') Error: locale setting not supported ...and it *is* a Swedish system. (Don't try 'sw', that's Swahili. I did a little mistake setting the menu language for my DVD-player, and now I will always remember. :) >The codec registry only knows about "cp1252" because that's >the standard name. We can't go about and add all possible >aliases for each and every encoding out there. Yes, I know. So why does setlocale(LC_ALL, ''); getlocale()[1] return '1252' and not 'cp1252' which is what the dysfunctional default locale says? >>How do we display dates and times according to locale? Does the new >>date module handle that? locale.atof and locale.format can at least >>display floats right. (I think.) >>To the extent that the code is there, it's just briefly described in the >>docs, and very little in all the Python books out there. Is this really >>such a peripheral issue? > >Probably not too interesting to the US folks :-) Everybody >else seems to be using their own little tool sets for this. But this isn't Perl, it's Python. :) We are supposed to have *one* way to do things! I think standardizing things like this properly will be important to make is easier to develop and share business code. I certainly think this is the kind of thing where one way of doing it would be helpful. We want support for many locales, not many ways to support a few locales! It seems to me than when a new package or module is added to the standard library, it will mean that most people will use that, and there will be less of divided efforts and confusing code. Sometimes it's useful with different versions of things, because they have different goals and priorities, but often there is a pluralism just because of ignorance and lack of coordination. Oops, was there such a module already? Is there a standard for this? >Using the collation support defined in the Unicode >standard (provided that someone writes the support code >needed for the Python implementation). Great. There *is* a standard for this. Thanks for enlightening me. -- Magnus Lycka (It's really Lyckå), magnus@thinkware.se Thinkware AB, Sweden, www.thinkware.se I code Python ~ The shortest path from thought to working program From martin@v.loewis.de Wed Apr 30 06:20:43 2003 From: martin@v.loewis.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-15?q?L=F6wis?=) Date: 30 Apr 2003 07:20:43 +0200 Subject: [EuroPython] i18n and realted issues In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.0.20030429230922.026b6d58@www.thinkware.se> References: <5.2.1.1.0.20030429155203.02693ea8@www.thinkware.se> <5.2.1.1.0.20030429155203.02693ea8@www.thinkware.se> <5.2.1.1.0.20030429230922.026b6d58@www.thinkware.se> Message-ID: Magnus Lyck=C3=A5 writes: > Read again. getdefaultlocale() and setlocale(LC_ALL, '') > followed by getlocale() give different results. on Win > 2000 and XP.=20 This is surely all off-topic for the EuroPython list, I'm also unsure what your messages aim at. Do you say such things to point out perceived bugs in Python, or to learn more about locales, or for some other reason? In any case, i18n-sig@python.org is a better list for such questions. Trust me that Python exposes the full power of the Windows locale system, and little more. You better use the locale names that Windows uses, or else you'll lose. sv_SE is not a locale name that Windows uses, so you should not use it, either. I also recommend to not use getdefaultlocale and getlocale, but to only use setlocale. Regards, Martin From magnus@thinkware.se Wed Apr 30 13:34:31 2003 From: magnus@thinkware.se (Magnus =?iso-8859-1?Q?Lyck=E5?=) Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 14:34:31 +0200 Subject: [EuroPython] i18n and realted issues In-Reply-To: References: <5.2.1.1.0.20030429230922.026b6d58@www.thinkware.se> <5.2.1.1.0.20030429155203.02693ea8@www.thinkware.se> <5.2.1.1.0.20030429155203.02693ea8@www.thinkware.se> <5.2.1.1.0.20030429230922.026b6d58@www.thinkware.se> Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20030430115617.0265e5f8@www.thinkware.se> At 07:20 2003-04-30 +0200, Martin v. L=F6wis wrote: >This is surely all off-topic for the EuroPython list, I'm also unsure >what your messages aim at. Do you say such things to point out >perceived bugs in Python, or to learn more about locales, or for some >other reason? Right. This became all too technical. Sorry. But the "percieved" bugs are real. The locale module does not work as specified in the library reference on Microsoft Windows 2000 or XP. I wanted to bring the general issue of i18n and l16n up with the PBF, since I think it's very relevant for Python use in business, but gets all too little attention in python documentation, official as well as printed books etc. I suspect you agree, since you seem to have been a python i18n champion for years (six years at least). I used the (on Windows) buggy locale module, and the lack of documentation around this, to illustrate the problem. In general, it's easy to work with Python, at least we tend to claim that, and our library reference and books are very helpful, but here it fails. I also felt that Europython ought to be an event where other people who are interested in this issue will appear. In general I hope we will find time to not only listen to prepared speeches at Europython, but also discuss issues that we feel need improvement, and to come up with solutions for that--in a PBF context or in some other way. -- Magnus Lycka (It's really Lyckå), magnus@thinkware.se Thinkware AB, Sweden, www.thinkware.se I code Python ~ The shortest path from thought to working program=20 From ghum@gmx.net Wed Apr 30 14:18:08 2003 From: ghum@gmx.net (Harald Armin Massa) Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 15:18:08 +0200 Subject: [EuroPython] i18n and related issues Message-ID: <005d01c30f1a$f1752b20$642aa8c0@tjgo.com> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_005A_01C30F2B.B4778D10 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Magnus, > A subject which is typically ignored in python books, and very = relevant > in a python business perspective is localization and = internationalization. It is very important to me. Especially using Python together with windows ... the different charsets take most of the "unproductive development time". Different encodings in filenames, trying to send international = characters via COM, storing them in databases, cache them in strings.... even PyCrust often fails on international characters - starting from tracebacks, not ending with total breakdown of the interactive shell. PythonWin is not really different. It's not a Python specific problem - it's enough to name files with "=E4=FCml=E4ut" and look at them at a command shell, in windows explorer = and a file open dialog. (if you dare, do it with os.path.walk) Everything concerning internationalisation is a sure bucked talk for me Harald ------=_NextPart_000_005A_01C30F2B.B4778D10 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Magnus,

> A = subject which is=20 typically ignored in python books, and very relevant
> in a python = business perspective is localization and internationalization.

It = is very=20 important to me.

Especially using Python together with windows = ... the=20 different charsets
take most of the "unproductive development=20 time".

Different encodings in filenames, trying to send = international=20 characters
via COM, storing them in databases, cache them in=20 strings....

even PyCrust often fails on international characters = -=20 starting from
tracebacks, not ending with total breakdown of the = interactive=20 shell.
PythonWin is not really different.

It's not a Python = specific=20 problem - it's enough to name files with
"=E4=FCml=E4ut" and look at = them at a=20 command shell, in windows explorer and a
file open dialog. (if you = dare, do=20 it with os.path.walk)

Everything concerning internationalisation = is a=20 sure bucked talk for = me


Harald
------=_NextPart_000_005A_01C30F2B.B4778D10-- From mal@lemburg.com Wed Apr 30 16:05:48 2003 From: mal@lemburg.com (M.-A. Lemburg) Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 17:05:48 +0200 Subject: [EuroPython] Talk database Message-ID: <3EAFE64C.6020706@lemburg.com> Could someone please explain why the talk database is corrupted and all the work we've done on it so far gone down the drain ? Why isn't it possible to at revert to a backup ??? -- Marc-Andre Lemburg eGenix.com Professional Python Software directly from the Source (#1, Apr 30 2003) >>> Python/Zope Products & Consulting ... http://www.egenix.com/ >>> mxODBC, mxDateTime, mxTextTools ... http://python.egenix.com/ ________________________________________________________________________ EuroPython 2003, Charleroi, Belgium: 55 days left From mwh@python.net Wed Apr 30 16:17:41 2003 From: mwh@python.net (Michael Hudson) Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 16:17:41 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Talk database In-Reply-To: <3EAFE64C.6020706@lemburg.com> ("M.-A. Lemburg"'s message of "Wed, 30 Apr 2003 17:05:48 +0200") References: <3EAFE64C.6020706@lemburg.com> Message-ID: <2m7k9cc8ve.fsf@starship.python.net> "M.-A. Lemburg" writes: > Could someone please explain why the talk database is corrupted > and all the work we've done on it so far gone down the drain ? http://starship.python.net/crew/mwh/tracker/europython/issue38 Cheers, M. -- I have a feeling that any simple problem can be made arbitrarily difficult by imposing a suitably heavy administrative process around the development. -- Joe Armstrong, comp.lang.functional From mal@lemburg.com Wed Apr 30 16:32:43 2003 From: mal@lemburg.com (M.-A. Lemburg) Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 17:32:43 +0200 Subject: [EuroPython] Talk database In-Reply-To: <2m7k9cc8ve.fsf@starship.python.net> References: <3EAFE64C.6020706@lemburg.com> <2m7k9cc8ve.fsf@starship.python.net> Message-ID: <3EAFEC9B.6090500@lemburg.com> Michael Hudson wrote: > "M.-A. Lemburg" writes: > > >>Could someone please explain why the talk database is corrupted >>and all the work we've done on it so far gone down the drain ? > > http://starship.python.net/crew/mwh/tracker/europython/issue38 Thanks :-/ Would have been nice to tell us track chairmen about the problem. When can we expect a restored copy of the track database ? Also, why did you start to send out emails to the speakers without asking the track chairmen for their consent ??? The emails you sent out look just completely silly... (do I sound angry enough ?) -- Marc-Andre Lemburg eGenix.com Professional Python Software directly from the Source (#1, Apr 30 2003) >>> Python/Zope Products & Consulting ... http://www.egenix.com/ >>> mxODBC, mxDateTime, mxTextTools ... http://python.egenix.com/ ________________________________________________________________________ EuroPython 2003, Charleroi, Belgium: 55 days left From mwh@python.net Wed Apr 30 16:45:56 2003 From: mwh@python.net (Michael Hudson) Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 16:45:56 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Talk database In-Reply-To: <3EAFEC9B.6090500@lemburg.com> ("M.-A. Lemburg"'s message of "Wed, 30 Apr 2003 17:32:43 +0200") References: <3EAFE64C.6020706@lemburg.com> <2m7k9cc8ve.fsf@starship.python.net> <3EAFEC9B.6090500@lemburg.com> Message-ID: <2m4r4gc7kb.fsf@starship.python.net> "M.-A. Lemburg" writes: > Michael Hudson wrote: >> "M.-A. Lemburg" writes: >> >>>Could someone please explain why the talk database is corrupted >>>and all the work we've done on it so far gone down the drain ? >> http://starship.python.net/crew/mwh/tracker/europython/issue38 > > Thanks :-/ > > Would have been nice to tell us track chairmen about > the problem. When can we expect a restored copy of the track > database ? I know no more than is mentioned in the issue. > Also, why did you start to send out emails to the speakers > without asking the track chairmen for their consent ??? The > emails you sent out look just completely silly... (do I > sound angry enough ?) (Please be a little careful slinging "you"s around. It wasn't me who sent the emails, and as far as there is an "organising cabal", you're part of it too). I'm not exactly happy about the situation either. But as we all want the same thing (a happy succesful conference, etc), can you try to keep the criticism a little constructive? You could stick your head into IRC (irc.freenode.net, #europython) and ask there. Cheers, M. -- Counting lines is probably a good idea if you want to print it out and are short on paper, but I fail to see the purpose otherwise. -- Erik Naggum, comp.lang.lisp From rev_anna_r@yahoo.com Wed Apr 30 17:03:21 2003 From: rev_anna_r@yahoo.com (Anna Ravenscroft) Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 09:03:21 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [EuroPython] i18n and realted issues In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.0.20030430115617.0265e5f8@www.thinkware.se> Message-ID: <20030430160321.34894.qmail@web12303.mail.yahoo.com> I think that'll be a great topic for an open space session on the last day. I'm sure you'll have lots of folks interested in discussing it with you. Thanks for bringing it up. cordially, Anna --- Magnus Lyckå wrote: > At 07:20 2003-04-30 +0200, Martin v. Löwis wrote: > >This is surely all off-topic for the EuroPython list, I'm also > unsure > >what your messages aim at. Do you say such things to point out > >perceived bugs in Python, or to learn more about locales, or for > some > >other reason? > > Right. This became all too technical. Sorry. But the "percieved" bugs > are real. The locale module does not work as specified in the library > reference on Microsoft Windows 2000 or XP. > > I wanted to bring the general issue of i18n and l16n up with the PBF, > since > I think it's very relevant for Python use in business, but gets all > too > little attention in python documentation, official as well as printed > books > etc. I suspect you agree, since you seem to have been a python i18n > champion > for years (six years at least). > > I used the (on Windows) buggy locale module, and the lack of > documentation > around this, to illustrate the problem. In general, it's easy to work > with > Python, at least we tend to claim that, and our library reference and > books > are very helpful, but here it fails. > > I also felt that Europython ought to be an event where other people > who > are interested in this issue will appear. > > In general I hope we will find time to not only listen to prepared > speeches > at Europython, but also discuss issues that we feel need improvement, > and > to come up with solutions for that--in a PBF context or in some other > way. > > > > -- > Magnus Lycka (It's really Lyckå), magnus@thinkware.se > Thinkware AB, Sweden, www.thinkware.se > I code Python ~ The shortest path from thought to working program > > > _______________________________________________ > EuroPython mailing list > EuroPython@python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/europython __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com From tom@aragne.com Wed Apr 30 16:54:08 2003 From: tom@aragne.com (Tom Deprez) Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 17:54:08 +0200 Subject: [EuroPython] Talk database References: <3EAFE64C.6020706@lemburg.com> <2m7k9cc8ve.fsf@starship.python.net> <3EAFEC9B.6090500@lemburg.com> Message-ID: <028401c30f30$c6735580$b36da8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> Hi, >>> Could someone please explain why the talk database is corrupted >>> and all the work we've done on it so far gone down the drain ? >> >> http://starship.python.net/crew/mwh/tracker/europython/issue38 > > Thanks :-/ > > Would have been nice to tell us track chairmen about > the problem. Well, we were having the problem since yesterday. All the people at the IRC knew about it. As told frequently on the list, we daily visit at the #europython channel and a log is available of that chat. Also the tracker (mentioned) is available for everybody (mostly for everybody who wants to help in EP). It was the purpose of the tracker to inform people about a certain status or problem. We were first trying to know how *bad* it was and trying to solve it, before contacting everybody about it. >When can we expect a restored copy of the track database ? Have you actually read the tracker? a copy of the data.fs will be available tomorrow, but we don't even know if it will help us, since it is another kind of backup (for eg HD failures). So it's quiet possible that we won't have a good copy! Yes, this is bad. Yes, this is stupid, yes..., yes .., yes... but we now have the problem and need to fix it. > Also, why did you start to send out emails to the speakers > without asking the track chairmen for their consent ??? Ah, this is my fault. See also tracker. In order to move quickly -since this is a highly urgent matter- I proposed Joachim to send a mail to all the people from whom we missed information. We couldn't wait before every chairmen would bring his input. This could have taken several days. This to save a day when it turns out that the backup isn't usefull for us. Alas, it looks like Joachim handled too quickly, without discussing the message for the email itself. >The emails you sent out look just completely silly... I haven't seen those, so I don't know how they look. >(do I sound angry enough ?) no, really, I learned to live with these kind of things recently. Before somebody askes... yes precautions are under way to be sure this won't happen in the future. Regards, Tom From rev_anna_r@yahoo.com Wed Apr 30 17:32:48 2003 From: rev_anna_r@yahoo.com (Anna Ravenscroft) Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 09:32:48 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [EuroPython] Talk database In-Reply-To: <028401c30f30$c6735580$b36da8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> Message-ID: <20030430163248.47506.qmail@web12306.mail.yahoo.com> Just a reminder to folks: The EP IRC logs are available at: http://twistedmatrix.com/users/moshez/europython.log.txt (thanks to Moshe) and the EP Issue Tracker is available at: http://starship.python.net/crew/mwh/tracker/europython/ (thanks to MWH) Track Chairs are especially encouraged to keep up to date by reading the logs and the issue tracker. You can set yourself on "nosy" to keep up with a particular issue. Please remember to check these resources before posting a question here. Cordially, Anna Ravenscroft __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com From faassen@vet.uu.nl Wed Apr 30 18:37:13 2003 From: faassen@vet.uu.nl (Martijn Faassen) Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 19:37:13 +0200 Subject: [EuroPython] de-facto procedures Message-ID: <20030430173713.GA24431@vet.uu.nl> Hi there, Since the way we're organizing this conference has changed some since last year partially because of new tools, I'd like to give a bit of an expansion on what Michael and Anna already mentioned: We have a #europython channel on irc.freenode.net. People hang out here quite regularly, and there are meetings every weekday at the end of the day. I, Tom, Michael, Anna, Moshe and Laura seem to be the most active at present. The EP IRC logs are available at: http://twistedmatrix.com/users/moshez/europython.log.txt (thanks to Moshe) The next major change since last year is that we have an actual issue tracker. This helps us keep track of issues far more easily than we could last year: http://starship.python.net/crew/mwh/tracker/europython/ (thanks to MWH) If you subscribe to the issue tracker and 'nosy' yourself on the issues you're interested in, you get automatic email whenever there is some update. Please make issues for topics you consider important. And *please* if you haven't already subscribe to it! If you have any business with the organization at all, it's likely I or someone else will want to include you on an issue. I'll add a few perhaps redundant last words about the problems with the talks database. There was a screwup and followed up by lack of good communication; even us on IRC and reading the issue tracker were for a long time in the dark on what was going on. We were unhappy too, of course. I hope communication will be improved in the future. Also we need better backup procedures and a better software upgrade policy, but then we're all a bunch of volunteers and we should also be glad someone is doing the hard work. We'll investigate tomorrow whether we may be able to get a more complete restoration of the talks database from the backup. Regards, Martijn From mal@lemburg.com Wed Apr 30 20:10:52 2003 From: mal@lemburg.com (M.-A. Lemburg) Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 21:10:52 +0200 Subject: [EuroPython] Talk database In-Reply-To: <2m4r4gc7kb.fsf@starship.python.net> References: <3EAFE64C.6020706@lemburg.com> <2m7k9cc8ve.fsf@starship.python.net> <3EAFEC9B.6090500@lemburg.com> <2m4r4gc7kb.fsf@starship.python.net> Message-ID: <3EB01FBC.8020302@lemburg.com> Michael Hudson wrote: >>>>Could someone please explain why the talk database is corrupted >>>>and all the work we've done on it so far gone down the drain ? >>> >>>http://starship.python.net/crew/mwh/tracker/europython/issue38 >> >>Thanks :-/ >> >>Also, why did you start to send out emails to the speakers >>without asking the track chairmen for their consent ??? The >>emails you sent out look just completely silly... (do I >>sound angry enough ?) > > (Please be a little careful slinging "you"s around. It wasn't me who > sent the emails, and as far as there is an "organising cabal", you're > part of it too). Sorry, didn't mean you personally. I meant those who initiated the emails before informing the ones who have the direct contact to the speakers... explaining a mistake by an auto-generated email isn't exactly what people would expect after you've just cleared out their submissions ! W/r to constructive suggestions: I've asked for daily backups of the site several times before, Tom promised to look into adding them. You could also try to revive the xmlrpc GetTalks/GetRegistrations scripts we used last year (I used them last year to at least save those two important databases in a separate location as backup). And here's another suggestion: when hacking on the web-site, please please use a staging system *before* going into production. Tim an I have tried to recover at least the data from our track: turned out that the browser had saved a listing with the titles, so at least that information is not lost. -- Marc-Andre Lemburg eGenix.com Professional Python Software directly from the Source (#1, Apr 30 2003) >>> Python/Zope Products & Consulting ... http://www.egenix.com/ >>> mxODBC, mxDateTime, mxTextTools ... http://python.egenix.com/ ________________________________________________________________________ EuroPython 2003, Charleroi, Belgium: 55 days left From Tom Deprez" <2m7k9cc8ve.fsf@starship.python.net> <3EAFEC9B.6090500@lemburg.com> <2m4r4gc7kb.fsf@starship.python.net> <3EB01FBC.8020302@lemburg.com> Message-ID: <022301c30f4f$3ee8e7f0$8901a8c0@skullsplitter> Marc-Andre, Damn, you make me angry. I promised myself to ignore all these mails, but boy I get tired... sorry that I take this personal. > Sorry, didn't mean you personally. I meant those who initiated the > emails before informing the ones who have the direct contact to the > speakers... explaining a mistake by an auto-generated email isn't > exactly what people would expect after you've just cleared out > their submissions ! blablablabla. And you never make mistakes???????? > W/r to constructive suggestions: I've asked for daily backups of > the site several times before, Tom promised to look into adding > them. Funny, I never think I promised to do that... PS. There are backups... Amaze makes them. So don't point a finger at me... oh yes it is easy to tell that this and that has to be done. Go ahead and implement it... don't tell somebody has to do it. Do it *yourself*. We aren't an organisation. We are all volunteers. Sure things get better, but if everybody would actually do themselfs, what they talk about, this would actually be a brilliant organisation. But too bad, thats not life... >You could also try to revive the xmlrpc > GetTalks/GetRegistrations scripts we used last year > (I used them last year to at least save those two important > databases in a separate location as backup). hehe, do you really think we didn't thought about that? > And here's another suggestion: when hacking on the web-site, > please please use a staging system *before* going into production. Well.... that's funny... we wouldn't have thought about that. We are so dumb we don't think on such things... oh my god... what do you think we are??? Well, let me say it for you: We are dumb volunteers, waiting for people to *** on us. > Tim an I have tried to recover at least the data from our > track: turned out that the browser had saved a listing with > the titles, so at least that information is not lost. Good for you And thank you for making me happy. (Do I sound angry enough?) Tom. From mal@lemburg.com Wed Apr 30 20:47:36 2003 From: mal@lemburg.com (M.-A. Lemburg) Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 21:47:36 +0200 Subject: [EuroPython] Talk database In-Reply-To: <022301c30f4f$3ee8e7f0$8901a8c0@skullsplitter> References: <3EAFE64C.6020706@lemburg.com> <2m7k9cc8ve.fsf@starship.python.net> <3EAFEC9B.6090500@lemburg.com> <2m4r4gc7kb.fsf@starship.python.net> <3EB01FBC.8020302@lemburg.com> <022301c30f4f$3ee8e7f0$8901a8c0@skullsplitter> Message-ID: <3EB02858.1070702@lemburg.com> Tom Deprez wrote: > Marc-Andre, > > Damn, you make me angry. I promised myself to ignore all these mails, > but boy I get tired... sorry that I take this personal. This discussion is overheating; let's wait what tomorrow brings. -- Marc-Andre Lemburg eGenix.com Professional Python Software directly from the Source (#1, Apr 30 2003) >>> Python/Zope Products & Consulting ... http://www.egenix.com/ >>> mxODBC, mxDateTime, mxTextTools ... http://python.egenix.com/ ________________________________________________________________________ EuroPython 2003, Charleroi, Belgium: 55 days left From bjancplr@webtv.net Sat Apr 26 13:25:27 2003 From: bjancplr@webtv.net (bjancplr@webtv.net) Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2003 18:25:27 +0600 Subject: [EuroPython] jxfmctyfxvxo yhpxrwqmayfuapb mxsmslmaschnsiqhxkouyxjcvt Message-ID: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_0BF_17AA_2BEBA8C8.360A46D4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable ------=_NextPart_0BF_17AA_2BEBA8C8.360A46D4 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 PCFET0NUWVBFIEhUTUwgUFVCTElDICItLy9XM0MvL0RURCBIVE1MIDQuMCBU cmFuc2l0aW9uYWwvL0VOIj4NCjxIVE1MPjxIRUFEPjwhcnZpcXJmampvZj4N CjxNRVRBIGh0dHAtZXF1aXY9Q29udGVudC1UeXBlIGNvbnRlbnQ9InRleHQv aHRtbDsgY2hhcnNldD13aW5kb3dzLTEyNTIiPg0KPE1FVEEgY29udGVudD0i TWljcm9zb2Z0IEZyb250UGFnZSA1LjAiIG5hbWU9R0VORVJBVE9SPjwvSEVB RD4NCjxCT0RZPjwhaG1rcHNucWpneWk+DQo8VEFCTEUgY2VsbFBhZGRpbmc9 MTUgd2lkdGg9NTIwIGJnQ29sb3I9IzBhMGE1YSBib3JkZXI9MD4NCiAgPFRC T0RZPg0KPCF2Y2toZ21pZ2ZwbWtmcnFhdnhmZz4gIDxUUj4NCiAgICA8VEQ+ PEZPTlQgZmFjZT1WRVJEQU5BIGNvbG9yPXdoaXRlIHNpemU9NT48Qj48IS0t IFRCUiAtLT4NCiAgICAgIDxDRU5URVI+PEZPTlQgY29sb3I9I0ZGRkYwMD5T VE9QIFBBPCFkdHJ4cHNyaWFnPllJTkcgRk9SIFA8IW1oYnM+T1JOISEhPC9G T05UPjxCUj48QlI+VGhlIFdvcmxkJ3MgDQogICAgICBGSVJTVCBBYnNvbHV0 ZWx5IDxGT05UIGNvbG9yPXllbGxvdz5GUkVFPC9GT05UPiBBZHVsdCANCiAg ICAgIE1lZ2E8IWpibnd3bmFud3VzZXhxanZ4cHdwPnNpdGUhPC9DRU5URVI+ DQogICAgICA8VUw+DQogICAgICAgIDxMST5IPCFpcnRyaj5PVCBHSVJMUyBP TiBXRUJDQU08TEk+TGl2ZSBTZXggU2hvd3M8QlI+DQogICAgICAgIDxMST5G dWxsLUxlbmd0aCBNb3ZpZTwhbGJ2aWs+czxCUj4NCiAgICAgICAgPExJPkJl YTwhcW9oZXdvY2txeW5pdnVrdHZqeWlncGhtbXJuaz51dGlmdWwgUGljdG9y aWFsczxMST5Fcm90PCFieWZnd3k+aWMgU3RvcmllcyBhbmQgR2FtZXM8QlI+ DQogICAgICAgIDxMST5EaWQgd2UgbWU8IWFncj5udGlvbiBpdHMgPFU+RlI8 IXNlYnJnb2RqeGVtb2hxcGN5Z25tYXBieW5iPkVFPC9VPj88L0xJPjwvVUw+ DQogICAgPHAgYWxpZ249ImNlbnRlciI+QUxMIFlPVSBORUVEIElTIFlPVVIg RU1BSUwgQUQ8IWtmbWFrZWFsYz5EUkVTUyBUTyBKT0lOISEhPCEtLSBUQlIg LS0+PC9wPg0KICAgICAgPENFTlRFUj5DaGU8IXN4a3Nwa2VoeWl3ZHBoYWU+ Y2sgdXMgb3V0ISA8QSBocmVmPSJodHRwOi8vd3d3LmluY3JlZGlibGVvZmZl ci50di9mc3cvZnJlZS8/SUQ9Y2xvIiANCiAgICAgIHRhcmdldD1fYmxhbms+ PEZPTlQgY29sb3I9cmVkIHNpemU9NT5WaXNpdCBvdXIgc2l0ZSE8L0ZPTlQ+ PC9BPjwvRk9OVD48Rk9OVCBmYWNlPVZFUkRBTkEgY29sb3I9d2hpdGU+PHA+ DQogICAgICAoSnVzdCBlbnRlciB5b3VyIGVtYWlsIGFkPCF3ZGh1ZWZ5Ym0+ ZHJlc3MsIGFuZCB5b3Ugd2lsbCByZWNlaXY8IWR0PmUgeW91ciB1c2VybmFt ZSBhbmQgDQogICAgICBwYXNzdzwha3d2Pm9yZCBpbiB0aGUgbWFpbCEpPC9w Pg0KICAgIDwvQ0VOVEVSPjwvRk9OVD48Rk9OVCBmYWNlPVZFUkRBTkEgY29s b3I9d2hpdGUgc2l6ZT01PjwhLS0gVEJSIC0tPjwvRk9OVD48L0I+PC9URD48 L1RSPjwvVEJPRFk+PC9UQUJMRT48IS0tIFRCUiAtLT48QlI+PEJSPg0KPEZP TlQgDQpjb2xvcj1ibGFjayBzaXplPTI+Tm90ZTogSWYgeTwhcHh3d3dmcWt5 dmd2ZHlqb2xjeGpudWhhcms+b3Ugd291bGQgdzwhdGdkZXdoaGlrYz5vdWxk IGxpa2UgdG8gYmUgcmVtPCFid2ZqZ2dzbmpzPm92ZWQgZnJvbSBvdXIgbGlz dCwgDQpwbGVhc2UgDQpjbGljayA8QSBocmVmPSJodHRwOi8vd3d3LmluY3Jl ZGlibGVvZmZlci50di9mc3cvcmVtLyIgDQp0YXJnZXQ9X2JsYW5rPmhlcmU8 L0E+LiBXZSBob25vciBhbGwgcmU8IW5mZnZ1Y25nbm5wbHR4b2tia2xmbHk+ bW92ZXMgaW1tZWRpYXRlbHkuPC9GT05UPjwvQk9EWT48L0hUTUw+ ------=_NextPart_0BF_17AA_2BEBA8C8.360A46D4--