From faassen@vet.uu.nl Sat Nov 9 15:26:56 2002 From: faassen@vet.uu.nl (Martijn Faassen) Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2002 16:26:56 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] What about next year? In-Reply-To: References: <1DA2B5C1-E664-11D6-8EC4-00039345C610@darwin.in-berlin.de> <5.1.0.14.2.20021024120352.00ab9e98@pop.swing.be> <00fa01c27b50$1d586e50$1e71a8c0@u10136> Message-ID: <20021109152656.GA11306@vet.uu.nl> Nicolas Pettiaux wrote: > +1 > > Count me in, I'll have more time and energy than last year :-) [back from vacation] Sure, I'll help too. I'll have less time and energy than last year in the beginning, but I'll attempt to distribute it more evenly and to overcommit less. :) Regards, Martijn From faassen@vet.uu.nl Sat Nov 9 15:29:15 2002 From: faassen@vet.uu.nl (Martijn Faassen) Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2002 16:29:15 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] What about next year? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20021109152915.GB11306@vet.uu.nl> Andy Robinson wrote: > > > At 11:52 24/10/2002, Nicolas Chauvat wrote: > > >> I keep hearing very nice comments about last year every > > place I go. > > >> I think it is never too early to start. Who is up for > > another round ? > > Me too. > > Can we assume the same infrastructure for managing speakers, > talks etc is available next time? Is there interest in refining > it a little provided we start early enough? I'd like to refine the infrastructure for managing talks, as I think I was one of the main people to wrestle with it last year. I will start thinking about how things can be improved. Regards, Martijn From faassen@vet.uu.nl Sat Nov 9 15:39:41 2002 From: faassen@vet.uu.nl (Martijn Faassen) Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2002 16:39:41 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] what about september? Message-ID: <20021109153941.GC11306@vet.uu.nl> Hi there, What about organizing the new conference in september 2003? I know this is far off, but this will have some advantages: * well outside the timeframe of the conference in the UK in April * outside the holiday season * but it may very well still be nice weather outside * we have time to prepare Risks: * people will be on holiday and can't prepare presentations/conference * some other important conference is in september (any?) Checking the conferences-discuss mailing list for Python, the last talk was about organizing a conference in the week of march 24 in 2003 in Washington DC. We'd be well out of their way then. Of course the other option would remain june. It'd be closer to the april date, but it's still feasible; we managed it last year in about the same timeframe, and we have a base to start from now. Regards, Martijn From mvm@brutele.be Sat Nov 9 22:14:25 2002 From: mvm@brutele.be (vin) Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2002 23:14:25 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] what about september? References: <20021109153941.GC11306@vet.uu.nl> Message-ID: <001301c2883d$5d362f90$0bfe44d4@gfx1> > Of course the other option would remain june. It'd be closer to the april > date, but it's still feasible; we managed it last year in about the > same timeframe, and we have a base to start from now. If we 'll make it in June 2003 like this year, maybe the "June" will be the period for "Euro Python Conference" and everybody will know it !?! Regards, Vincent Maton. _________________________________________________________________ MVM : My Personal Web Site --- http://freezope2.nipltd.net/mvm/vincent European Python's federation ------ http://www.europython.org P3B : Club Python(-Zope) Belge ------ http://www.p3b.org From andy@reportlab.com Sat Nov 9 22:26:14 2002 From: andy@reportlab.com (Andy Robinson) Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2002 22:26:14 -0000 Subject: [EuroPython] what about september? In-Reply-To: <20021109153941.GC11306@vet.uu.nl> Message-ID: > What about organizing the new conference in september 2003? I know this > is far off, but this will have some advantages: Six months apart is nice. I think 2 good European events each year is a fine target. +1 - Andy From andy@reportlab.com Sat Nov 9 22:35:39 2002 From: andy@reportlab.com (Andy Robinson) Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2002 22:35:39 -0000 Subject: [EuroPython] what about september? In-Reply-To: <001301c2883d$5d362f90$0bfe44d4@gfx1> Message-ID: > If we 'll make it in June 2003 like this year, maybe the "June" will be > the period for "Euro Python Conference" and everybody will know it !?! Whatever is decided, the main thing is to decide it soon and publish the date - even if it is a provisional date and location. Just declaring that it will happen on a place and a day is the first step! - Andy p.s maybe we'll even have time to make lightweight vector covers for the brochure this time ;-) From mal@lemburg.com Mon Nov 11 08:45:38 2002 From: mal@lemburg.com (M.-A. Lemburg) Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 09:45:38 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] what about september? References: <20021109153941.GC11306@vet.uu.nl> Message-ID: <3DCF6E32.7000805@lemburg.com> Martijn Faassen wrote: > Hi there, > > What about organizing the new conference in september 2003? I know this > is far off, but this will have some advantages: > > * well outside the timeframe of the conference in the UK in April > > * outside the holiday season > > * but it may very well still be nice weather outside > > * we have time to prepare > > Risks: > > * people will be on holiday and can't prepare presentations/conference > > * some other important conference is in september (any?) The downside is that most of the organizers will be on summer vacation just before the event and thus not be available for organizing the event. -- Marc-Andre Lemburg CEO eGenix.com Software GmbH _______________________________________________________________________ eGenix.com -- Makers of the Python mx Extensions: mxDateTime,mxODBC,... Python Consulting: http://www.egenix.com/ Python Software: http://www.egenix.com/files/python/ From Nicolas.Chauvat@logilab.fr Mon Nov 11 14:16:26 2002 From: Nicolas.Chauvat@logilab.fr (Nicolas Chauvat) Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 15:16:26 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] what about september? In-Reply-To: <20021109153941.GC11306@vet.uu.nl> References: <20021109153941.GC11306@vet.uu.nl> Message-ID: <20021111141626.GM23434@logilab.fr> On Sat, Nov 09, 2002 at 04:39:41PM +0100, Martijn Faassen wrote: > > What about organizing the new conference in september 2003? In April, it is the Python UK conference. If we move the europython conference away from country-specific conferences and US-specific conferences, we will soon be unable to hold one since there are more than 12 countries in europe and more than one conference in the US. Python is gaining momentum, more conferences are organized, all the better. But we should try to make europython the event that everyone wants to attend rather than to shy away from the other events. No one would attend every python event anyway... except maybe some professionnal globe-trotters :-) Now if we are to move the conference to the fall, I'd rather have it in october for everyone to get a chance to be back to work from vacation and have time do the last minute preparation work. BTW, something we discussed last week with Nicolas Pettiaux and Denis Frere was to have the event last three full days and dedicate the first day to businesses with actual happy users presenting their own use case and explain why python made it a success. Any opinion ? -- Nicolas Chauvat http://www.logilab.com - "Mais oł est donc Ornicar ?" - LOGILAB, Paris (France) From stephan.richter@tufts.edu Mon Nov 11 16:03:12 2002 From: stephan.richter@tufts.edu (Stephan Richter) Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 11:03:12 -0500 Subject: [EuroPython] what about september? In-Reply-To: <20021111141626.GM23434@logilab.fr> References: <20021109153941.GC11306@vet.uu.nl> <20021111141626.GM23434@logilab.fr> Message-ID: <200211111103.12017.stephan.richter@tufts.edu> On Monday 11 November 2002 09:16, Nicolas Chauvat wrote: > On Sat, Nov 09, 2002 at 04:39:41PM +0100, Martijn Faassen wrote: > > What about organizing the new conference in september 2003? > > In April, it is the Python UK conference. If we move the europython > conference away from country-specific conferences and US-specific > conferences, we will soon be unable to hold one since there are more than > 12 countries in europe and more than one conference in the US. Python is > gaining momentum, more conferences are organized, all the better. But we > should try to make europython the event that everyone wants to attend > rather than to shy away from the other events. No one would attend every > python event anyway... except maybe some professionnal globe-trotters :-) I agree with Nicolas. Also think of students. October is a bad time, since school is going on. The summer is nice, since students are out of school. On the other hand it is much cheaper to travel in September and October, if you have to fly. Regards, Stephan -- Stephan Richter CBU Physics & Chemistry (B.S.) / Tufts Physics (Ph.D. student) Web2k - Web Software Design, Development and Training From faassen@vet.uu.nl Mon Nov 11 20:19:31 2002 From: faassen@vet.uu.nl (Martijn Faassen) Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 21:19:31 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] what about september? In-Reply-To: <20021111141626.GM23434@logilab.fr> References: <20021109153941.GC11306@vet.uu.nl> <20021111141626.GM23434@logilab.fr> Message-ID: <20021111201931.GB20474@vet.uu.nl> Nicolas Chauvat wrote: > On Sat, Nov 09, 2002 at 04:39:41PM +0100, Martijn Faassen wrote: > Now if we are to move the conference to the fall, I'd rather have it in > october for everyone to get a chance to be back to work from vacation and > have time do the last minute preparation work. Yes, perhaps october would indeed be better. You do make a good argument for not moving the EuroPython conference away from june, though. > BTW, something we discussed last week with Nicolas Pettiaux and Denis Frere > was to have the event last three full days and dedicate the first day to > businesses with actual happy users presenting their own use case and > explain why python made it a success. I think a day that is focused on business users would definitely be a good thing. Many of us are in the python business and last year there was a lot of interest in a separate business focused event. The second day could include some tutorials and introductions so that business users have a motivation to stay on another day as well. The fourth day can be the 'real geek day'. Lightning talks would fit on both the first day or if they are more hacker oriented, the last day. Regards, Martijn From gotcha@swing.be Mon Nov 11 20:34:03 2002 From: gotcha@swing.be (Godefroid Chapelle) Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 21:34:03 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] what about september? In-Reply-To: <3DCF6E32.7000805@lemburg.com> References: <20021109153941.GC11306@vet.uu.nl> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20021111212435.0290d038@pop.swing.be> At 16:39 9/11/2002, Martijn Faassen wrote: >Hi there, > >What about organizing the new conference in september 2003? I know this >is far off, but this will have some advantages: > > * well outside the timeframe of the conference in the UK in April The conference in UK is not a Python only event so I think it won't attract the same public even if some people do want to go to both. At 09:45 11/11/2002, M.-A. Lemburg wrote: >The downside is that most of the organizers will be on summer >vacation just before the event and thus not be available for >organizing the event. > >-- >Marc-Andre Lemburg Yup. At 15:16 11/11/2002, Nicolas Chauvat wrote: >On Sat, Nov 09, 2002 at 04:39:41PM +0100, Martijn Faassen wrote: > > > > What about organizing the new conference in september 2003? > >But we should try to make >europython the event that everyone wants to attend rather than to shy away >from the other events. No one would attend every python event anyway... >except maybe some professionnal globe-trotters :-) > >Now if we are to move the conference to the fall, I'd rather have it in >october for everyone to get a chance to be back to work from vacation and >have time do the last minute preparation work. -1 >BTW, something we discussed last week with Nicolas Pettiaux and Denis Frere >was to have the event last three full days and dedicate the first day to >businesses with actual happy users presenting their own use case and >explain why python made it a success. Very good idea. >Any opinion ? > >-- >Nicolas Chauvat At 17:03 11/11/2002, Stephan Richter wrote: >On Monday 11 November 2002 09:16, Nicolas Chauvat wrote: > > On Sat, Nov 09, 2002 at 04:39:41PM +0100, Martijn Faassen wrote: > > > What about organizing the new conference in september 2003? > > > > In April, it is the Python UK conference. If we move the europython > > conference away from country-specific conferences and US-specific > > conferences, we will soon be unable to hold one since there are more than > > 12 countries in europe and more than one conference in the US. Python is > > gaining momentum, more conferences are organized, all the better. But we > > should try to make europython the event that everyone wants to attend > > rather than to shy away from the other events. No one would attend every > > python event anyway... except maybe some professionnal globe-trotters :-) > >I agree with Nicolas. Also think of students. October is a bad time, since >school is going on. The summer is nice, since students are out of school. > >On the other hand it is much cheaper to travel in September and October, if >you have to fly. This is correct. >Regards, >Stephan >-- >Stephan Richter I think we should quickly settle on a decision for place and date as Tim said. IMO, we should do it end of June which was chosen last year with a lot of very good reasons. Further, I still think we could do it in Charleroi IF AND ONLY IF P3B feel they still want to give a hand. So please P3B speak up... And other pythoneers, can you think (or better propose) another place to go ? -- Godefroid Chapelle BubbleNet sprl rue Victor Horta, 18 / 202 1348 Louvain-la-Neuve Belgium Tel + 32 (10) 459901 Mob + 32 (477) 363942 TVA 467 093 008 RC Niv 49849 From hari@ontrackuk.com Tue Nov 12 03:39:04 2002 From: hari@ontrackuk.com (B Hari) Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 09:09:04 +0530 Subject: [EuroPython] Request to Europython members In-Reply-To: <20021111170007.27480.13955.Mailman@mail.python.org> Message-ID: Dear list members, I will be in Europe from 25 th November to 5th December and would love to meet individuals and companies in UK, Germany, Holland, Belgium , for collaborative projects in Zope . We are looking to work with companies an= d individuals who can assist us in various ways in promoting ZOPE, speciall= y in training and in products. Please do email me if you require any more details. Best Regards, Hari B Hari Managing Director www.zopeindia.com www.ontrackindia.com -----Original Message----- From: europython-admin@python.org [mailto:europython-admin@python.org]On Behalf Of europython-request@python.org Sent: 11 November 2002 22:30 To: europython@python.org Subject: EuroPython digest, Vol 1 #263 - 3 msgs Send EuroPython mailing list submissions to europython@python.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/europython or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to europython-request@python.org You can reach the person managing the list at europython-admin@python.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of EuroPython digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: what about september? (M.-A. Lemburg) 2. Re: what about september? (Nicolas Chauvat) 3. Re: what about september? (Stephan Richter) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 09:45:38 +0100 From: "M.-A. Lemburg" Organization: eGenix.com Software GmbH To: Martijn Faassen CC: europython@python.org Subject: Re: [EuroPython] what about september? Martijn Faassen wrote: > Hi there, > > What about organizing the new conference in september 2003? I know this > is far off, but this will have some advantages: > > * well outside the timeframe of the conference in the UK in April > > * outside the holiday season > > * but it may very well still be nice weather outside > > * we have time to prepare > > Risks: > > * people will be on holiday and can't prepare presentations/conferenc= e > > * some other important conference is in september (any?) The downside is that most of the organizers will be on summer vacation just before the event and thus not be available for organizing the event. -- Marc-Andre Lemburg CEO eGenix.com Software GmbH _______________________________________________________________________ eGenix.com -- Makers of the Python mx Extensions: mxDateTime,mxODBC,... Python Consulting: http://www.egenix.com/ Python Software: http://www.egenix.com/files/python/ --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "Nicolas Chauvat" Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 15:16:26 +0100 To: Martijn Faassen Cc: europython@python.org Subject: Re: [EuroPython] what about september? On Sat, Nov 09, 2002 at 04:39:41PM +0100, Martijn Faassen wrote: > > What about organizing the new conference in september 2003? In April, it is the Python UK conference. If we move the europython conference away from country-specific conferences and US-specific conferences, we wi= ll soon be unable to hold one since there are more than 12 countries in euro= pe and more than one conference in the US. Python is gaining momentum, more conferences are organized, all the better. But we should try to make europython the event that everyone wants to attend rather than to shy awa= y from the other events. No one would attend every python event anyway... except maybe some professionnal globe-trotters :-) Now if we are to move the conference to the fall, I'd rather have it in october for everyone to get a chance to be back to work from vacation and have time do the last minute preparation work. BTW, something we discussed last week with Nicolas Pettiaux and Denis Fre= re was to have the event last three full days and dedicate the first day to businesses with actual happy users presenting their own use case and explain why python made it a success. Any opinion ? -- Nicolas Chauvat http://www.logilab.com - "Mais o=F9 est donc Ornicar ?" - LOGILAB, Paris (France) --__--__-- Message: 3 From: Stephan Richter Reply-To: stephan.richter@tufts.edu Organization: Web2k To: "Nicolas Chauvat" , Martijn Faassen Subject: Re: [EuroPython] what about september? Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 11:03:12 -0500 Cc: europython@python.org On Monday 11 November 2002 09:16, Nicolas Chauvat wrote: > On Sat, Nov 09, 2002 at 04:39:41PM +0100, Martijn Faassen wrote: > > What about organizing the new conference in september 2003? > > In April, it is the Python UK conference. If we move the europython > conference away from country-specific conferences and US-specific > conferences, we will soon be unable to hold one since there are more th= an > 12 countries in europe and more than one conference in the US. Python i= s > gaining momentum, more conferences are organized, all the better. But w= e > should try to make europython the event that everyone wants to attend > rather than to shy away from the other events. No one would attend ever= y > python event anyway... except maybe some professionnal globe-trotters := -) I agree with Nicolas. Also think of students. October is a bad time, sinc= e school is going on. The summer is nice, since students are out of school. On the other hand it is much cheaper to travel in September and October, = if you have to fly. Regards, Stephan -- Stephan Richter CBU Physics & Chemistry (B.S.) / Tufts Physics (Ph.D. student) Web2k - Web Software Design, Development and Training --__--__-- _______________________________________________ EuroPython mailing list EuroPython@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/europython End of EuroPython Digest From Nicolas.Chauvat@logilab.fr Tue Nov 12 09:08:44 2002 From: Nicolas.Chauvat@logilab.fr (Nicolas Chauvat) Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 10:08:44 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] what about september? In-Reply-To: <20021111201931.GB20474@vet.uu.nl> References: <20021109153941.GC11306@vet.uu.nl> <20021111141626.GM23434@logilab.fr> <20021111201931.GB20474@vet.uu.nl> Message-ID: <20021112090844.GB26498@logilab.fr> > You do make a good argument for not moving the EuroPython conference > away from june, though. If we are to hold the event in Charleroi for the second time, I suggest we let Denis Frere decide of the exact date, since he will be the one taking care of things locally, thus having the strongest constraints forced on his agenda. > I think a day that is focused on business users would definitely be > a good thing. Many of us are in the python business and last year there > was a lot of interest in a separate business focused event. > > The second day could include some tutorials and introductions so that > business users have a motivation to stay on another day as well. > The fourth day can be the 'real geek day'. Lightning talks would fit on > both the first day or if they are more hacker oriented, the last day. Agreed. Day 1: business user share use cases (talks and L-talks) Day 2: tutorials and panels (like "Python for web apps" or "Python for Science") Day 3: geeky stuff (like "why two-stage parsing will permit metaprogramming and please the psyco guys") How does that sound ? -- Nicolas Chauvat http://www.logilab.com - "Mais oł est donc Ornicar ?" - LOGILAB, Paris (France) From tom@aragne.com Tue Nov 12 09:15:24 2002 From: tom@aragne.com (Tom Deprez) Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 10:15:24 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] what about september? References: <20021109153941.GC11306@vet.uu.nl> Message-ID: <007c01c28a2c$08775e70$1e71a8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> I like this proposal too. Martijn Faassen wrote: > Hi there, > > What about organizing the new conference in september 2003? I know > this is far off, but this will have some advantages: > > * well outside the timeframe of the conference in the UK in April > > * outside the holiday season > > * but it may very well still be nice weather outside > > * we have time to prepare > > Risks: > > * people will be on holiday and can't prepare > presentations/conference > > * some other important conference is in september (any?) > > Checking the conferences-discuss mailing list for Python, the last > talk was about organizing a conference in the week of march 24 in > 2003 in Washington DC. We'd be well out of their way then. > > Of course the other option would remain june. It'd be closer to the > april date, but it's still feasible; we managed it last year in about > the same timeframe, and we have a base to start from now. > > Regards, > > Martijn > > > _______________________________________________ > EuroPython mailing list > EuroPython@python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/europython From Nicolas.Chauvat@logilab.fr Tue Nov 12 09:15:22 2002 From: Nicolas.Chauvat@logilab.fr (Nicolas Chauvat) Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 10:15:22 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] what about september? In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20021111212435.0290d038@pop.swing.be> References: <20021109153941.GC11306@vet.uu.nl> <5.1.0.14.2.20021111212435.0290d038@pop.swing.be> Message-ID: <20021112091522.GC26498@logilab.fr> > I think we should quickly settle on a decision for place and date as Tim > said. Agreed. > IMO, we should do it end of June which was chosen last year with a lot of > very good reasons. > Further, I still think we could do it in Charleroi IF AND ONLY IF P3B feel > they still want to give a hand. > > So please P3B speak up... Since this is a volunteer-based organisation and takes a lot of time, I think it would make sense to organise the event in the same location two years in a row (as someone already suggested) in order to (1) benefit from the first year's organisation and (2) rotate locations a minimum. But if P3B doesn't feel like putting as much work as last year (and that would be *very* understandable), we should quickly decide on a new location that's both easy to reach from other european countries and close to one of the organiser's place. -- Nicolas Chauvat http://www.logilab.com - "Mais oł est donc Ornicar ?" - LOGILAB, Paris (France) From tom@aragne.com Tue Nov 12 09:27:58 2002 From: tom@aragne.com (Tom Deprez) Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 10:27:58 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] what about september? References: <20021109153941.GC11306@vet.uu.nl> <20021111141626.GM23434@logilab.fr> Message-ID: <015b01c28a2d$ca44c0a0$1e71a8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> > Now if we are to move the conference to the fall, I'd rather have it > in october for everyone to get a chance to be back to work from > vacation and have time do the last minute preparation work. mmm, even better than september > BTW, something we discussed last week with Nicolas Pettiaux and Denis > Frere was to have the event last three full days and dedicate the > first day to businesses with actual happy users presenting their own > use case and explain why python made it a success. > Any opinion ? Why the first day and not the last? Tom. From Nicolas.Chauvat@logilab.fr Tue Nov 12 09:29:03 2002 From: Nicolas.Chauvat@logilab.fr (Nicolas Chauvat) Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 10:29:03 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] what about september? In-Reply-To: <015b01c28a2d$ca44c0a0$1e71a8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> References: <20021109153941.GC11306@vet.uu.nl> <20021111141626.GM23434@logilab.fr> <015b01c28a2d$ca44c0a0$1e71a8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> Message-ID: <20021112092903.GF26498@logilab.fr> On Tue, Nov 12, 2002 at 10:27:58AM +0100, Tom Deprez wrote: > > first day to businesses with actual happy users presenting their own > > use case and explain why python made it a success. > > Why the first day and not the last? Because it is better to do your homework before going outside to play with your friends. :-) -- Nicolas Chauvat http://www.logilab.com - "Mais oł est donc Ornicar ?" - LOGILAB, Paris (France) From tom@aragne.com Tue Nov 12 09:32:15 2002 From: tom@aragne.com (Tom Deprez) Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 10:32:15 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] what about september? References: <20021109153941.GC11306@vet.uu.nl> <20021111141626.GM23434@logilab.fr> <200211111103.12017.stephan.richter@tufts.edu> Message-ID: <019b01c28a2e$63156370$1e71a8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> Just wondering, How many students did we have this year? tom. Stephan Richter wrote: > On Monday 11 November 2002 09:16, Nicolas Chauvat wrote: >> On Sat, Nov 09, 2002 at 04:39:41PM +0100, Martijn Faassen wrote: >>> What about organizing the new conference in september 2003? >> >> In April, it is the Python UK conference. If we move the europython >> conference away from country-specific conferences and US-specific >> conferences, we will soon be unable to hold one since there are more >> than 12 countries in europe and more than one conference in the US. >> Python is gaining momentum, more conferences are organized, all the >> better. But we should try to make europython the event that everyone >> wants to attend rather than to shy away from the other events. No >> one would attend every python event anyway... except maybe some >> professionnal globe-trotters :-) > > I agree with Nicolas. Also think of students. October is a bad time, > since school is going on. The summer is nice, since students are out > of school. > > On the other hand it is much cheaper to travel in September and > October, if you have to fly. > > Regards, > Stephan > _______________________________________________ > EuroPython mailing list > EuroPython@python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/europython From andy@reportlab.com Tue Nov 12 09:44:16 2002 From: andy@reportlab.com (Andy Robinson) Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 09:44:16 -0000 Subject: [EuroPython] what about september? In-Reply-To: <019b01c28a2e$63156370$1e71a8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> Message-ID: > > I agree with Nicolas. Also think of students. October is a bad time, > > since school is going on. The summer is nice, since students are out > > of school. If it's someone doing a CS degree then I expect their tutors should be receptive. When I was a student it was remarkably easy to attend relevant things, and quite possible to disappear for 2-3 days without anyone even noticing... My gut feeling is we will lose more people due to "holidays in September" than "students in October". Idea: if we go Thur/Fri/Sat, then people not interested in the business track only need to miss one day of their jobs or courses. And air tickets are much much cheaper if you 'cross a Saturday'; it might even be cheaper for people to stay one more night and drink some more Chimay when it's over :-) - Andy From Nicolas.Chauvat@logilab.fr Tue Nov 12 10:04:52 2002 From: Nicolas.Chauvat@logilab.fr (Nicolas Chauvat) Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 11:04:52 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] what about september? In-Reply-To: References: <019b01c28a2e$63156370$1e71a8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> Message-ID: <20021112100452.GG26498@logilab.fr> > Idea: if we go Thur/Fri/Sat, then people not interested in > the business track only need to miss one day of their jobs or > courses. And air tickets are much much cheaper if you 'cross > a Saturday'; it might even be cheaper for people to stay one > more night and drink some more Chimay when it's over :-) I think that's two good ideas (thur/fri/sat and drinking more chimay :-) -- Nicolas Chauvat http://www.logilab.com - "Mais oł est donc Ornicar ?" - LOGILAB, Paris (France) From mal@lemburg.com Tue Nov 12 10:24:29 2002 From: mal@lemburg.com (M.-A. Lemburg) Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 11:24:29 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] what about september? References: <20021109153941.GC11306@vet.uu.nl> <20021111141626.GM23434@logilab.fr> <200211111103.12017.stephan.richter@tufts.edu> <019b01c28a2e$63156370$1e71a8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> Message-ID: <3DD0D6DD.8000903@lemburg.com> Tom Deprez wrote: > Just wondering, > > How many students did we have this year? 21; that's around 10% of the total number of attendees -- not really enough to warrant moving the conference date. I also think that Nicolas makes a good point about the day 1 use case talks: many attendees this year were very interested in solutions, so a larger user-oriented forum makes a lot of sense. That said, our main audience originates from the commercial camp. We should make things as attractive for them as possible. Ideal would be to make the conference suitable for customer invitations. I believe that this year's event has shown that EPC provides a very decent platform for commercial activities. We should grow on that. BTW, given the tight budget we had to build on last time, I also think that we'll have to stir more towards the YAS approach: no free entries (not even for speakers) and no funding for invited guest speakers. -- Marc-Andre Lemburg CEO eGenix.com Software GmbH _______________________________________________________________________ eGenix.com -- Makers of the Python mx Extensions: mxDateTime,mxODBC,... Python Consulting: http://www.egenix.com/ Python Software: http://www.egenix.com/files/python/ From tom@aragne.com Tue Nov 12 10:40:25 2002 From: tom@aragne.com (Tom Deprez) Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 11:40:25 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] what about september? References: <20021109153941.GC11306@vet.uu.nl> <20021111141626.GM23434@logilab.fr> <200211111103.12017.stephan.richter@tufts.edu> <019b01c28a2e$63156370$1e71a8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> <3DD0D6DD.8000903@lemburg.com> Message-ID: <02e801c28a37$e91ea810$1e71a8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> M.-A. Lemburg wrote: > Tom Deprez wrote: >> Just wondering, >> >> How many students did we have this year? > > 21; that's around 10% of the total number of attendees -- > not really enough to warrant moving the conference date. mmm, yes, indeed... > I also think that Nicolas makes a good point about the > day 1 use case talks: many attendees this year were very > interested in solutions, so a larger user-oriented forum > makes a lot of sense. That said, our main audience > originates from the commercial camp. We should make things > as attractive for them as possible. Ideal would be to > make the conference suitable for customer invitations. I > believe that this year's event has shown that EPC provides > a very decent platform for commercial activities. We should > grow on that. yes, but thus it have to be a business oriented conference? I think we have to keep it attractive for hackers too. I more prefer to have a mix of the hackers and business people, although seperated in a certain way. Like for instance the proposal to have day1 for business talks. More and more conferences become business oriented, while this is good for companies, I personally don't think it is good for individuals who want to share ideas with each other. Also, more business oriented conferences, tend to be more demanding for the organisers (not that this isn't good, but we don't need overkill). > BTW, given the tight budget we had to build on last time, > I also think that we'll have to stir more towards the > YAS approach: no free entries (not even for speakers) > and no funding for invited guest speakers. Don't know... we made it more or less. We had some problems (and did some mistakes), but that were I think 'growing pains'. I'm still in favor for giving people free entrance if they give a talk of at least 30-40 minutes. Perhaps we could let the business people pay, even if they give a talk, after all, it's like a sort of commercial isn't it? Tom. > _______________________________________________ > EuroPython mailing list > EuroPython@python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/europython From stephan.richter@tufts.edu Tue Nov 12 13:28:54 2002 From: stephan.richter@tufts.edu (Stephan Richter) Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 08:28:54 -0500 Subject: [EuroPython] what about september? In-Reply-To: <019b01c28a2e$63156370$1e71a8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> References: <20021109153941.GC11306@vet.uu.nl> <200211111103.12017.stephan.richter@tufts.edu> <019b01c28a2e$63156370$1e71a8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> Message-ID: <200211120828.54302.stephan.richter@tufts.edu> On Tuesday 12 November 2002 04:32, Tom Deprez wrote: > Just wondering, > > How many students did we have this year? Certainly there was one; me. :-) But I am serious. Being friendly to students is always good. Regards, Stephan -- Stephan Richter CBU Physics & Chemistry (B.S.) / Tufts Physics (Ph.D. student) Web2k - Web Software Design, Development and Training From mwh@python.net Tue Nov 12 13:47:55 2002 From: mwh@python.net (Michael Hudson) Date: 12 Nov 2002 13:47:55 +0000 Subject: [EuroPython] what about september? In-Reply-To: "Andy Robinson"'s message of "Tue, 12 Nov 2002 09:44:16 -0000" References: Message-ID: <2my97ynblg.fsf@starship.python.net> "Andy Robinson" writes: > My gut feeling is we will lose more people due to "holidays in > September" than "students in October". I'm a grad student, and for me a potential problem with a September conference is that September tends to be when my subject conferences are... Cheers, M. -- That one is easily explained away as massively intricate conspiracy, though. -- Chris Klein, alt.sysadmin.recovery From thomas@reulbach.com Wed Nov 13 17:14:55 2002 From: thomas@reulbach.com (Thomas Reulbach) Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 18:14:55 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] what about september? In-Reply-To: <3DD0D6DD.8000903@lemburg.com> References: <20021109153941.GC11306@vet.uu.nl> <20021111141626.GM23434@logilab.fr> <200211111103.12017.stephan.richter@tufts.edu> <019b01c28a2e$63156370$1e71a8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20021113181412.02a18a40@pop.puretec.de> +1 September is a good time :-) Thomas From faassen@vet.uu.nl Thu Nov 14 16:26:03 2002 From: faassen@vet.uu.nl (Martijn Faassen) Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 17:26:03 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] what about september? In-Reply-To: <02e801c28a37$e91ea810$1e71a8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> References: <20021109153941.GC11306@vet.uu.nl> <20021111141626.GM23434@logilab.fr> <200211111103.12017.stephan.richter@tufts.edu> <019b01c28a2e$63156370$1e71a8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> <3DD0D6DD.8000903@lemburg.com> <02e801c28a37$e91ea810$1e71a8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> Message-ID: <20021114162603.GA4859@vet.uu.nl> Tom Deprez wrote: > yes, but thus it have to be a business oriented conference? I think we have > to keep it attractive for hackers too. > I more prefer to have a mix of the hackers and business people, although > seperated in a certain way. Like for instance the proposal to have day1 for > business talks. Agreed with this; I like this compromise. Start with a business day, 2 days of main conference, and the 4th day (if we'll do 4 days) the hacker's day. I like both as I'm in business and a hacker. :) Anyway, we need both -- open source related software needs hackers to exist and develop further, and needs business to reach end users. I do think the conference could do with a day (the first) that's very solution oriented. This will attract more users with no big background in Python (or Zope). > I'm still in favor for giving people free entrance if they give a talk of at > least 30-40 minutes. Perhaps we could let the business people pay, even if > they give a talk, after all, it's like a sort of commercial isn't it? It might be hard to distinguish between 'commercial' talks versus talking about something you're enthusiastic about. Perhaps you can split it by track or something.. Regards, Martijn From mal@lemburg.com Thu Nov 14 17:06:23 2002 From: mal@lemburg.com (M.-A. Lemburg) Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 18:06:23 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] what about september? References: <20021109153941.GC11306@vet.uu.nl> <20021111141626.GM23434@logilab.fr> <200211111103.12017.stephan.richter@tufts.edu> <019b01c28a2e$63156370$1e71a8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> <3DD0D6DD.8000903@lemburg.com> <02e801c28a37$e91ea810$1e71a8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> <20021114162603.GA4859@vet.uu.nl> Message-ID: <3DD3D80F.5090903@lemburg.com> Martijn Faassen wrote: >>I'm still in favor for giving people free entrance if they give a talk of at >>least 30-40 minutes. Perhaps we could let the business people pay, even if >>they give a talk, after all, it's like a sort of commercial isn't it? > > It might be hard to distinguish between 'commercial' talks versus > talking about something you're enthusiastic about. Perhaps you can split > it by track or something.. YAS (the potential organizers of next Python event in the US) does it this way and if we want to be cheap we'll have to do it the same way. We simply can't afford anything else within a reasonable range of financial risk. I would also like to see substantial (financial) support from Zope Corp for the forum we give to this company's products at the conference. -- Marc-Andre Lemburg CEO eGenix.com Software GmbH _______________________________________________________________________ eGenix.com -- Makers of the Python mx Extensions: mxDateTime,mxODBC,... Python Consulting: http://www.egenix.com/ Python Software: http://www.egenix.com/files/python/ From Juergen Hermann" Message-ID: On Thu, 14 Nov 2002 17:26:03 +0100, Martijn Faassen wrote: >Agreed with this; I like this compromise. Start with a business day, >2 days of main conference, and the 4th day (if we'll do 4 days) >the hacker's day. I like both as I'm in business and a hacker. :) >Anyway, we need both -- open source related software needs hackers to >exist and develop further, and needs business to reach end users. Will that imply 2(3) day tickets in addition to a full conference fee then? Ciao, J=FCrgen From Nicolas.Chauvat@logilab.fr Thu Nov 14 19:40:33 2002 From: Nicolas.Chauvat@logilab.fr (Nicolas Chauvat) Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 20:40:33 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] what about september? In-Reply-To: <20021114162603.GA4859@vet.uu.nl> References: <20021109153941.GC11306@vet.uu.nl> <20021111141626.GM23434@logilab.fr> <200211111103.12017.stephan.richter@tufts.edu> <019b01c28a2e$63156370$1e71a8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> <3DD0D6DD.8000903@lemburg.com> <02e801c28a37$e91ea810$1e71a8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> <20021114162603.GA4859@vet.uu.nl> Message-ID: <20021114194033.GN2911@logilab.fr> > Agreed with this; I like this compromise. Start with a business day, > 2 days of main conference, and the 4th day (if we'll do 4 days) > the hacker's day. I like both as I'm in business and a hacker. :) 4 days is probably too long. We'd better stick with three. -- Nicolas Chauvat http://www.logilab.com - "Mais oł est donc Ornicar ?" - LOGILAB, Paris (France) From tom@aragne.com Fri Nov 15 09:27:36 2002 From: tom@aragne.com (Tom Deprez) Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 10:27:36 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] what about september? References: <20021109153941.GC11306@vet.uu.nl> <20021111141626.GM23434@logilab.fr> <200211111103.12017.stephan.richter@tufts.edu> <019b01c28a2e$63156370$1e71a8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> <3DD0D6DD.8000903@lemburg.com> <02e801c28a37$e91ea810$1e71a8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> <20021114162603.GA4859@vet.uu.nl> <3DD3D80F.5090903@lemburg.com> Message-ID: <008701c28c89$3c2fa9c0$1e71a8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> > I would also like to see substantial (financial) support from > Zope Corp for the forum we give to this company's products at the > conference. Mmm, I don't see a point here... After all, zope is open-source... they are not promoting their own company. If you would claim to have Zope Corp to pay for having a track on the open-source Zope product, then you should do the same concerning Python. Last year, there were no commercial Zope products of Zope Corp just talks about the open-source products. I even don't know if they still have commercial products. They are more a company which uses zope in their projects with clients. Tom From tom@aragne.com Fri Nov 15 09:29:50 2002 From: tom@aragne.com (Tom Deprez) Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 10:29:50 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] what about september? References: Message-ID: <009401c28c89$8c008e10$1e71a8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> mmm, yes, this would make sales of tickets even more complicated Juergen Hermann wrote: > On Thu, 14 Nov 2002 17:26:03 +0100, Martijn Faassen wrote: > >> Agreed with this; I like this compromise. Start with a business day, >> 2 days of main conference, and the 4th day (if we'll do 4 days) >> the hacker's day. I like both as I'm in business and a hacker. :) >> Anyway, we need both -- open source related software needs hackers to >> exist and develop further, and needs business to reach end users. > > Will that imply 2(3) day tickets in addition to a full conference fee > then? > > > Ciao, Jürgen > > > > _______________________________________________ > EuroPython mailing list > EuroPython@python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/europython From tom@aragne.com Fri Nov 15 09:30:55 2002 From: tom@aragne.com (Tom Deprez) Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 10:30:55 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] what about september? References: <20021109153941.GC11306@vet.uu.nl> <20021111141626.GM23434@logilab.fr> <200211111103.12017.stephan.richter@tufts.edu> <019b01c28a2e$63156370$1e71a8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> <3DD0D6DD.8000903@lemburg.com> <02e801c28a37$e91ea810$1e71a8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> <20021114162603.GA4859@vet.uu.nl> <20021114194033.GN2911@logilab.fr> Message-ID: <00a201c28c89$b2f84b20$1e71a8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> Yes, I think this as well, 4 days are probably too long. Let's stick with 3. (for the first conferences, if need is there, we can go up) Tom. Nicolas Chauvat wrote: >> Agreed with this; I like this compromise. Start with a business day, >> 2 days of main conference, and the 4th day (if we'll do 4 days) >> the hacker's day. I like both as I'm in business and a hacker. :) > > 4 days is probably too long. We'd better stick with three. > > http://www.logilab.com - "Mais oł est donc Ornicar ?" - LOGILAB, > Paris (France) > > _______________________________________________ > EuroPython mailing list > EuroPython@python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/europython From nicolas.pettiaux@ael.be Fri Nov 15 11:08:16 2002 From: nicolas.pettiaux@ael.be (Nicolas Pettiaux) Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 12:08:16 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] EPC2003: program + length + public + fees Message-ID: Dear, I start a new thread that I hope is more explicit than the one "what abou= t=20 september" to address these 4 questions that I would have liked to split = but=20 that are too much linked the way I see them: : program + length + public = +=20 fees PROGRAM + LENGTH=20 I sully support the idea proposed by NicolasC (Chauvat) to have a 3 days=20 conference with the first day oriented to "consumers" of the applications= (by=20 opposition to developpers) organized around business cases. PUBLIC=20 For me there can exist a rather clear distinction between the people, bot= h=20 the exhibitors as well as the public, who attend that first day, that wi= ll=20 definitively be more business oriented than the other days, and the peopl= e=20 who attend only the last 2 days, that could well be more developper orien= ted=20 as last year.=20 I would also suppose that students, if any, would be in general more=20 interested by the last 2 days. I do also think that students who are the=20 future business users as well as developpers should be encouraged by all=20 means to participate. One of the way is making it really cheap, easy and=20 attractive for them. (I will come back with more ideas like the one I put= =20 forward last year of a competition with a prize) FEE As there would exist different target public (again please consider both=20 exhibitors and "consumers"), one category that is business oriented and o= ne=20 that is less, and that there is a temporal split between the 2, we could=20 consider to make different fees. I suppose the distinction is clear enoug= h to=20 make the logistics behind not that heavier. (I do also think that this=20 disctinction can help us, for example in the way that hostesses and/or a=20 active welcome desks are necessary - hence the associated cost- for the f= rist=20 day when it is less the other days. Please comment and react, NicolasP --=20 Nicolas Pettiaux Association =E9lectronique libre pour la promotion des=20 droits de l'Homme dans la Soci=E9t=E9 de l'information (AEL) - www.ael.be=20 From tom@aragne.com Fri Nov 15 11:14:53 2002 From: tom@aragne.com (Tom Deprez) Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 12:14:53 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] EPC2003: program + length + public + fees References: Message-ID: <01b101c28c98$38dcfe80$1e71a8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> Nicolas Pettiaux wrote: > Dear, > > I start a new thread that I hope is more explicit than the one "what > about september" to address these 4 questions that I would have liked > to split but that are too much linked the way I see them: : program + > length + public + fees > > PROGRAM + LENGTH > I sully support the idea proposed by NicolasC (Chauvat) to have a 3 > days conference with the first day oriented to "consumers" of the > applications (by opposition to developpers) organized around business > cases. +1 > PUBLIC > For me there can exist a rather clear distinction between the people, > both the exhibitors as well as the public, who attend that first > day, that will definitively be more business oriented than the other > days, and the people who attend only the last 2 days, that could well > be more developper oriented as last year. +1 > I would also suppose that students, if any, would be in general more > interested by the last 2 days. I do also think that students who are > the future business users as well as developpers should be encouraged > by all means to participate. One of the way is making it really > cheap, easy and attractive for them. +1 >(I will come back with more ideas like the one I put forward last year of a competition with a > prize) ? > FEE > As there would exist different target public (again please consider > both exhibitors and "consumers"), one category that is business > oriented and one that is less, and that there is a temporal split > between the 2, we could consider to make different fees. I suppose > the distinction is clear enough to make the logistics behind not that > heavier. (I do also think that this disctinction can help us, for > example in the way that hostesses and/or a active welcome desks are > necessary - hence the associated cost- for the frist day when it is > less the other days. You could for instance ask more fee for the first day, but... The difficulty I see is how to be sure someone who has a ticket for only the last 2 days, gets in the 1 day. (Or vice versa: only ticket for the 1st day) This can only be achieved with a very strict check, which isn't possible like in the setup of last year. Also a very strict check would impose long waiting rows. > Please comment and react, > > NicolasP > _______________________________________________ > EuroPython mailing list > EuroPython@python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/europython From Jens.Thiel@stochastix.de Fri Nov 15 11:25:57 2002 From: Jens.Thiel@stochastix.de (Jens Thiel) Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 12:25:57 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] EPC2003: program + length + public + fees In-Reply-To: <01b101c28c98$38dcfe80$1e71a8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> Message-ID: > You could for instance ask more fee for the first day, but... > The difficulty I see is how to be sure someone who has a ticket > for only the > last 2 days, gets in the 1 day. > (Or vice versa: only ticket for the 1st day) > This can only be achieved with a very strict check, which isn't possible > like in the setup of last year. Also a very > strict check would impose long waiting rows. > Make two different tickets: a 3-day and a 2-day("developer days") ticket. This way you reduce waiting lines during registration (will be split on two days) and do not need to check different kind of badges at the entrance. You can also justify different pricing because of more service/catering/whatever on the first("business") day. Jens. From nicolas.pettiaux@ael.be Fri Nov 15 11:30:09 2002 From: nicolas.pettiaux@ael.be (Nicolas Pettiaux) Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 12:30:09 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] EPC2003: program + length + public + fees In-Reply-To: <01b101c28c98$38dcfe80$1e71a8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> References: <01b101c28c98$38dcfe80$1e71a8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> Message-ID: Le Vendredi 15 Novembre 2002 12:14, Tom Deprez a =E9crit : > >(I will come back with more ideas like the one I put forward last year= of > > a competition with a prize) > > ? Please give me some time to put the ideas together > > FEE > You could for instance ask more fee for the first day,=20 yes. > The difficulty I see is how to be sure someone who has a ticket for onl= y > the last 2 days, gets in the 1 day. you can never be *sure* but you can do your best. For example have badges= =20 with a different color, and, for the first day, an hostess at the entranc= e of=20 each rooms (that by the way make it a very professionnal conference) This= can=20 help to explain the larger price for the first day and the hostes can be=20 students=20 For example:=20 day 1 =3D business day: everyone is welcome in the common exhibition area= but=20 blue badges (ie. for business people who have paid their due fees) only e= nter=20 the conference rooms day 2 and 3 =3D developper days : blue badges (for business people) and o= range=20 badges (the other, developpers for example) are welcome everywhere; no=20 control needed anymore at the entrance. > This can only be achieved with a very strict check, which isn't possibl= e > like in the setup of last year.=20 it is true that the control must be more strict and the setup a little=20 different . See my proposal here above. Achievable I think with not that = much=20 costs. The social control can also help a lot : make the rule very clear,= ask=20 the the badge were worn very clearly (much like at the European Exhibitio= n=20 that I just attende) and ask everyone for the first day to behave like a=20 professional. > Also a very > strict check would impose long waiting rows. not necesserarily.=20 Make 2 desks: one for people who HAVE registered AND paid, that will be f= ast,=20 one for the other where there can be a queue but let the people know in=20 advance that this is the way it will be organised. Regards, NicolasP --=20 Nicolas Pettiaux Association =E9lectronique libre pour la promotion des=20 droits de l'Homme dans la Soci=E9t=E9 de l'information (AEL) - www.ael.be=20 From nicolas.pettiaux@ael.be Fri Nov 15 11:52:38 2002 From: nicolas.pettiaux@ael.be (Nicolas Pettiaux) Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 12:52:38 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] EPC2003: program + length + public + fees In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Le Vendredi 15 Novembre 2002 12:25, Jens Thiel a =E9crit : > Make two different tickets: a 3-day and a 2-day("developer days") ticke= t. This is what I meant.=20 Thank you for the precision > This way you reduce waiting lines during registration (will be split on= two > days) and do not need to check different kind of badges at the entrance= =2E > You can also justify different pricing because of more > service/catering/whatever on the first("business") day. > > Jens. NicolasP --=20 Nicolas Pettiaux Association =E9lectronique libre pour la promotion des=20 droits de l'Homme dans la Soci=E9t=E9 de l'information (AEL) - www.ael.be=20 From tom@aragne.com Fri Nov 15 11:56:13 2002 From: tom@aragne.com (Tom Deprez) Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 12:56:13 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] EPC2003: program + length + public + fees References: Message-ID: <01c801c28c9d$ff1b2b80$1e71a8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> Jens Thiel wrote: >> You could for instance ask more fee for the first day, but... >> The difficulty I see is how to be sure someone who has a ticket >> for only the >> last 2 days, gets in the 1 day. >> (Or vice versa: only ticket for the 1st day) >> This can only be achieved with a very strict check, which isn't >> possible like in the setup of last year. Also a very >> strict check would impose long waiting rows. >> > > Make two different tickets: a 3-day and a 2-day("developer days") > ticket. This way you reduce waiting lines during registration (will > be split on two days) and do not need to check different kind of > badges at the entrance. You can also justify different pricing > because of more service/catering/whatever on the first("business") > day. Remember: We haven't worked with tickets last year... People came in with their invoice. We don't have special tickets with a color tag or something. > Jens. From Jens.Thiel@stochastix.de Fri Nov 15 12:04:15 2002 From: Jens.Thiel@stochastix.de (Jens Thiel) Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 13:04:15 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] EPC2003: program + length + public + fees In-Reply-To: <01c801c28c9d$ff1b2b80$1e71a8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> Message-ID: > > Make two different tickets: a 3-day and a 2-day("developer days") > > ticket. This way you reduce waiting lines during registration (will > > be split on two days) and do not need to check different kind of > > badges at the entrance. You can also justify different pricing > > because of more service/catering/whatever on the first("business") > > day. > > Remember: We haven't worked with tickets last year... People came in with > their invoice. We don't have special tickets with a color tag or > something. > replace "ticket" by "registration type" ;-) The idea was that the 3-day-people can register on the first day, whereas the 2-day people can not. So you do not need different badges (which would have created a two-class society on the remaining days), color tags or anything. Jens. From tom@aragne.com Fri Nov 15 13:06:00 2002 From: tom@aragne.com (Tom Deprez) Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 14:06:00 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] EPC2003: program + length + public + fees References: Message-ID: <01d901c28ca7$be6c9790$1e71a8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> > replace "ticket" by "registration type" ;-) > > The idea was that the 3-day-people can register on the first day, > whereas the 2-day people can not. So you do not need different badges > (which would have created a two-class society on the remaining days), > color tags or anything. ah, but this implies a long waiting row... since all people need to register at the first day (or the first day) and if they registered online, their invoice has to be checked to see if it is for 3 days or not. Or am I forgetting something? > Jens. From huima@fountainpark.org Fri Nov 15 13:17:39 2002 From: huima@fountainpark.org (Heimo Laukkanen) Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 15:17:39 +0200 Subject: [EuroPython] EPC2003: program + length + public + fees Message-ID: <3DD4F3F3.3040308@fountainpark.org> > Message: 14 > From: "Jens Thiel" > To: "Tom Deprez" , > Subject: RE: [EuroPython] EPC2003: program + length + public + fees > Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 13:04:15 +0100 > replace "ticket" by "registration type" ;-) > > The idea was that the 3-day-people can register on the first day, whereas > the 2-day people can not. So you do not need different badges (which would > have created a two-class society on the remaining days), color tags or > anything. +1 Also the different colour nametags help people find other people who are interested to discuss different aspects of Zope. Possible there could be different colour codings.. like: - Zope core / Zope product or service developer - Zope User ( using zope products or doing inhouse development ) - Business Remembering the event in Charleroi - I would have liked to know more beforehand about people there. I mean I do like to mingle with people and chit chat, but I would have also liked to use the time more efficiently. Know better who I can meet and arrange that. To support that kind of activity, one thing could be that while registering and also later - there would be optional fields to tell more about yourself, your business and specialities. And via the website we could promote people to meet and discuss openly on different subjects -- have even small ad hoc 'speciality' tracks somewhere ,-) In the simplest form this is just a Wikiweb, where people can communicate. But it should be made public and promoted that poeple would take an advantage of these possibilities and use the valuable 'face time' well, meeting interesting people. -huima From tom@aragne.com Fri Nov 15 13:20:12 2002 From: tom@aragne.com (Tom Deprez) Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 14:20:12 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] EPC2003: program + length + public + fees References: <01b101c28c98$38dcfe80$1e71a8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> Message-ID: <01f901c28ca9$bab54a00$1e71a8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> >> The difficulty I see is how to be sure someone who has a ticket for >> only the last 2 days, gets in the 1 day. > > you can never be *sure* but you can do your best. For example have > badges with a different color, and, for the first day, an hostess at > the entrance of each rooms (that by the way make it a very > professionnal conference) This can help to explain the larger price > for the first day and the hostes can be students So you imply a check at the registration desk + a check at the rooms itself? registration: check if person has reserved and finding his/her batch rooms: to see a person with a correct batch enters All possible to do, but brings in more costs: 1) find people for the registration desk and the rooms 2) organisation of different batches etc. > For example: > > day 1 = business day: everyone is welcome in the common exhibition > area but blue badges (ie. for business people who have paid their due > fees) only enter the conference rooms > > day 2 and 3 = developper days : blue badges (for business people) and > orange badges (the other, developpers for example) are welcome > everywhere; no control needed anymore at the entrance. > >> This can only be achieved with a very strict check, which isn't >> possible like in the setup of last year. > > it is true that the control must be more strict and the setup a little > different . See my proposal here above. Achievable I think with not > that much costs. The social control can also help a lot : make the > rule very clear, ask the the badge were worn very clearly (much like > at the European Exhibition that I just attende) and ask everyone for > the first day to behave like a professional. hehe... >> Also a very >> strict check would impose long waiting rows. > > not necesserarily. > > Make 2 desks: one for people who HAVE registered AND paid, that will > be fast, one for the other where there can be a queue but let the > people know in advance that this is the way it will be organised. Mmmm, I don't know, but I still remember the days.... You're correct above, ie in the fact that it wasn't that good organised and we didn't expect such a flood at a certain moment (but who was there to help us just before the start of the conference: to plan, help on the setup, think over it, ...) ? We just had the conference available in the evening just before the start. Not able to do much then and with the few persons... but lets put this aside) The biggest problem was to find the person and to give his/her bag and batch... And that increased the check in time a lot... Perhaps we have to give the bags on another place? ie we make a desk inside (after check-in) and by showing your batch, you get your bag... but this still gives the waiting times for finding the batch for a certain person etc. > Regards, > > NicolasP From Jens.Thiel@stochastix.de Fri Nov 15 13:24:17 2002 From: Jens.Thiel@stochastix.de (Jens Thiel) Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 14:24:17 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] EPC2003: program + length + public + fees In-Reply-To: <01d901c28ca7$be6c9790$1e71a8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> Message-ID: > > replace "ticket" by "registration type" ;-) > > > > The idea was that the 3-day-people can register on the first day, > > whereas the 2-day people can not. So you do not need different badges > > (which would have created a two-class society on the remaining days), > > color tags or anything. > > ah, but this implies a long waiting row... since all people need > to register > at the first day (or the first day) and if they registered online, their > invoice has to be checked to see if it is for 3 days or not. > > Or am I forgetting something? > Sorry, since English is not my "mother tongue" I maybe using misleading expressions. I am thinking of an online registration ("enrollment") and an on-site get-your-bag-shirt-and-badge-registration, where you show your invoice (or as an exception: pay cash). "Enrollment" is done online for all participants (with the usual late bird exceptions), but on-site registration for the 3-days tickets is done on the first day (checking against the "has paid for 3 days list"). People with a 2-days ticket won't be able to do the "on-site-registration-get-my-badge-thing" on the first day. I hope you get it, but trying to explain that in French would be far more confusing ;o) Jens. From Jens.Thiel@stochastix.de Fri Nov 15 13:27:45 2002 From: Jens.Thiel@stochastix.de (Jens Thiel) Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 14:27:45 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] EPC2003: program + length + public + fees In-Reply-To: <3DD4F3F3.3040308@fountainpark.org> Message-ID: > Also the different colour nametags help people find other people who are > interested to discuss different aspects of Zope. Possible there could be > different colour codings.. like: > > - Zope core / Zope product or service developer > - Zope User ( using zope products or doing inhouse development ) > - Business And people belonging to all three groups..? I once attended a meeting where you were able to "customize" your badge with colored dots, depending on your interest. This way people can signal interest in more than one category. Jens. From huima@fountainpark.org Fri Nov 15 13:36:18 2002 From: huima@fountainpark.org (Heimo Laukkanen) Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 15:36:18 +0200 Subject: [EuroPython] EPC2003: program + length + public + fees References: Message-ID: <3DD4F852.5070108@fountainpark.org> Jens Thiel wrote: >> - Zope core / Zope product or service developer >> - Zope User ( using zope products or doing inhouse development ) >> - Business > > And people belonging to all three groups..? I once attended a meeting where > you were able to "customize" your badge with colored dots, depending on your > interest. This way people can signal interest in more than one category. That was implied ,-) I remember participating in really big conferences when all this was computericed in a way that on your tag was a bar code that vendors scanned, and they got on to their computers info about the interest that we had filled in our registrations. Also on the badge was a colour stickers for fast recorgnition into certaing group of participants. -huima From tom@aragne.com Fri Nov 15 13:33:22 2002 From: tom@aragne.com (Tom Deprez) Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 14:33:22 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] EPC2003: program + length + public + fees References: <3DD4F3F3.3040308@fountainpark.org> Message-ID: <021201c28cab$91b1f390$1e71a8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> Hi, >> replace "ticket" by "registration type" ;-) >> >> The idea was that the 3-day-people can register on the first day, >> whereas the 2-day people can not. So you do not need different >> badges (which would have created a two-class society on the >> remaining days), color tags or anything. wait, are you for or against using colors or something like that? What you suggest is that at the first day you can only register for 3 days? So a business person who only wants to come the first day can't pay for one day (because if we would allow this, it would make it difficult for people checking everything) Mmm, perhaps we could make two different colored badges: eg Green : 3 days Blue : last 2 days Yellow : only first day That's easy checkable at the entrances. So instead using colors for 'pinning' people to what they are, we use it for payed days. > Also the different colour nametags help people find other people who > are interested to discuss different aspects of Zope. Possible there > could be different colour codings.. like: > > - Zope core / Zope product or service developer > - Zope User ( using zope products or doing inhouse development ) > - Business I don't think that we've to go that far...., don't forget it's a python conference as well, so you need to make the difference there then too... and whit how many colours will we then end up? Mmm, what about people who are both? I even don't know if all people would like to be pointed as 'business', 'hacker', ... Would you really be only interested in people which have the same color tag as yours? > Remembering the event in Charleroi - I would have liked to know more > beforehand about people there. I mean I do like to mingle with people > and chit chat, but I would have also liked to use the time more > efficiently. Know better who I can meet and arrange that. > In the simplest form this is just a Wikiweb, where people can > communicate. But it should be made public and promoted that poeple > would take an advantage of these possibilities and use the valuable > 'face time' well, meeting interesting people. There was a wikiweb for the public.... I don't think it's used a lot. Tom. From tom@aragne.com Fri Nov 15 13:42:31 2002 From: tom@aragne.com (Tom Deprez) Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 14:42:31 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] EPC2003: program + length + public + fees References: Message-ID: <021a01c28cac$d879a6f0$1e71a8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> > Sorry, since English is not my "mother tongue" I maybe using > misleading expressions. I am thinking of an online registration > ("enrollment") and an on-site get-your-bag-shirt-and-badge- > registration, where you show your invoice (or as an exception: pay > cash). > > "Enrollment" is done online for all participants (with the usual late > bird exceptions), but on-site registration for the 3-days tickets is > done on the first day (checking against the "has paid for 3 days > list"). People with a 2-days ticket won't be able to do the > "on-site-registration-get-my-badge-thing" on the first day. I think we're on the same wave (ie I think I now understand what you meant, sorry I can be dumb sometimes... or is it always? :-)) Look at my last reply. The only problem I see is that there will be people only comming for the first day... so we need to leave that option at on-site get-your-bag-shirt-and-badge-registration as well. And then we've the problem on how to check that these people won't come the 2,3 day as well...-> perhaps with the colored badges as I proposed in the previous mail? But, even if you do... it will not change the waiting rows. People still have to check the invoice (enrollment) to see if they really payed for 3 days (and not only 2). > I hope you get it, but trying to explain that in French would be far > more confusing ;o) well, my French isn't better either (to my shame) ... I'm from the dutch part of Belgium. :-) Tom. From tom@aragne.com Fri Nov 15 13:44:10 2002 From: tom@aragne.com (Tom Deprez) Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 14:44:10 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] EPC2003: program + length + public + fees References: <3DD4F852.5070108@fountainpark.org> Message-ID: <023201c28cad$13cae4d0$1e71a8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> >> And people belonging to all three groups..? I once attended a >> meeting where you were able to "customize" your badge with colored >> dots, depending on your interest. This way people can signal >> interest in more than one category. > > That was implied ,-) > > I remember participating in really big conferences when all this was > computericed in a way that on your tag was a bar code that vendors > scanned, and they got on to their computers info about the interest > that we had filled in our registrations. Also on the badge was a > colour stickers for fast recorgnition into certaing group of > participants. ouch.... and this all in a cheap, low participant amount conference? Nice idea however. Tom. From huima@fountainpark.org Fri Nov 15 13:56:30 2002 From: huima@fountainpark.org (Heimo Laukkanen) Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 15:56:30 +0200 Subject: [EuroPython] EPC2003: program + length + public + fees References: <3DD4F3F3.3040308@fountainpark.org> <021201c28cab$91b1f390$1e71a8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> Message-ID: <3DD4FD0E.3010500@fountainpark.org> Tom Deprez wrote: > eg Green : 3 days > Blue : last 2 days > Yellow : only first day Simple. Good. +1 > I don't think that we've to go that far...., don't forget it's a python > conference as well, so you need to make the difference there then too... and > whit how many colours will we then end up? > Mmm, what about people who are both? Me bad. I did have just my Zope glasses on. > I even don't know if all people would like to be pointed as 'business', > 'hacker', ... > Would you really be only interested in people which have the same color tag > as yours? Well the idea is like with color you could put yourself out to certain subjects. Like without words say that 'Here. I am here to make business. I am interested to know what others do, buy and sell. Do something new'. Or with a user badge say ' I am here to find products, tools and ideas to make my life easier '. And with developer / core hacker badge say ' I participate in all cool stuff and I could have an interesting product or ideas for you to use or buy'. >>In the simplest form this is just a Wikiweb, where people can >>communicate. But it should be made public and promoted that poeple >>would take an advantage of these possibilities and use the valuable >>'face time' well, meeting interesting people. > > There was a wikiweb for the public.... I don't think it's used a lot. Well that is what I meant with promoting it.. Making it happen, show that this is how you could use it - this is how you should use it atleast. ,-) -huima From Jens.Thiel@stochastix.de Fri Nov 15 13:59:53 2002 From: Jens.Thiel@stochastix.de (Jens Thiel) Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 14:59:53 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] EPC2003: program + length + public + fees In-Reply-To: <021a01c28cac$d879a6f0$1e71a8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> Message-ID: > The only problem I see is that there will be people > only comming for the first day... so we need to leave that option > at on-site > get-your-bag-shirt-and-badge-registration as well. And then we've the > problem on how to check that these people won't come the 2,3 day as > well...-> perhaps with the colored badges as I proposed in the previous > mail? My suggestion would be to have a full 3-day ticket and a cheap 2-day ticket only. The first day would include "premium service+catering", so that you could eg. invite customers to the conference (as suggested by someone on the list). The developer days must be content with water+bread only ;-) Or call the 3-days ticket 1-day "businees conference ticket", with free admission to the developer days ;-) And plain white badges for everyone. You just need to check badges at the entrance at usual. I think that giving out the freebies somewhere inside the conference would be a good thing, but handing out a short programme at the entrance will be necessary. > well, my French isn't better either (to my shame) ... I'm from the dutch > part of Belgium. :-) Well, my Dutch used to be better than my French either... Jens. From nicolas.pettiaux@ael.be Fri Nov 15 14:13:56 2002 From: nicolas.pettiaux@ael.be (Nicolas Pettiaux) Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 15:13:56 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] EPC2003: program + length + public + fees In-Reply-To: <01f901c28ca9$bab54a00$1e71a8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> References: <01f901c28ca9$bab54a00$1e71a8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> Message-ID: Le Vendredi 15 Novembre 2002 14:20, Tom Deprez a =E9crit : > >> The difficulty I see is how to be sure someone who has a ticket for > >> only the last 2 days, gets in the 1 day. > > > So you imply a check at the registration desk=20 yes to get the adequate badge > + a check at the rooms itself? yes for the first day This + colored badges is just what I camoe accross at the last 2 conferen= ces=20 (professional and public ones) I attended > registration: check if person has reserved and finding his/her batch yes plus receive the bag and other advertising material=20 > rooms: to see a person with a correct batch enters yes plus help the person make sure he/she enters the room that really=20 interests him > All possible to do, but brings in more costs: not too much I think for what we are looking for > 1) find people for the registration desk and the rooms should be OK=20 > 2) organisation of different batches etc. not that difficult if we think about it now > You're correct above, ie in the fact that it wasn't that good organised= and > we didn't expect such a flood at a certain moment (but who was there to > help us just before the start of the conference: to plan, help on the > setup, think over it, ...) ? this will be organized well enough this time=20 > We just had the conference available in the > evening just before the start. Not able to do much then and with the fe= w > persons... but lets put this aside) > > The biggest problem was to find the person and to give his/her bag and > batch...=20 this is more the problem of the person, not of the organizers > And that increased the check in time a lot... Perhaps we have to > give the bags on another place?=20 why not > ie we make a desk inside (after check-in) > and by showing your batch, you get your bag... but this still gives the > waiting times for finding the batch for a certain person etc. We still have plenty of time to thnik about that=20 NicolasP --=20 Nicolas Pettiaux Association =E9lectronique libre pour la promotion des=20 droits de l'Homme dans la Soci=E9t=E9 de l'information (AEL) - www.ael.be=20 From tom@aragne.com Fri Nov 15 14:19:19 2002 From: tom@aragne.com (Tom Deprez) Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 15:19:19 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] EPC2003: registration : summary 1 References: <3DD4F3F3.3040308@fountainpark.org> <021201c28cab$91b1f390$1e71a8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> Message-ID: <027401c28cb1$fc9ec9c0$1e71a8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> Ok, let me summarize a bit, since I think I'm mixing myself some issues : * We want to have 3 full days : 1 business; 2&3 mixed (but mostly oriented to the programmers, etc) * People need to be able to register for: All 3 days Only 2 last days First day (I think this is neccessary too) We need to check if a person payed for 1, 2 or 3 days. The easiest way is probably using a colored band, which shows for which days a person payed. As eg: eg Green : 3 days Blue : last 2 days Yellow : only first day Or Having a full 3-day ticket and a cheap 2-day ticket only. The first day would include "premium service+catering", so that you could eg. invite customers to the conference (as suggested by someone on the list). The developer days must be content with water+bread only ;-) Or call the 3-days ticket 1-day "businees conference ticket", with free admission to the developer days :-) * Ideas Interest Categories: It would perhaps be nice to know what interest certain people have. This can be done, but at the moment I'm afraid it will make it too complicated and will only increase costs. Perhaps the easiest way is to allow a checklist on the batch and let people fill it in themselfs... But then the batch becomes too crowded perhaps? Central Place for everybody, rooms only for payed visitors: This would imply that we need to check people entering the rooms, so more checks. We should discuss this more I think. Give the freebies bags at another place and you get one by showing your entry ticket. This would reduce the time at check-in * Problems: How to reduce the waiting rows: We could make seperate rows at check in (pre-registered, and non pre-registered) How to reduce the time for finding-of-batch-and-bag? We could give the bag on another place, so we reduce the time needed to make the bag. Finding the registered person and giving the batch can probably only be made quicker by using a PC with a database and printing the batch directly, so the searching is automatically and you don't need to find the batch... But this implies of course the creation of this all. Tom. From stephan.richter@tufts.edu Fri Nov 15 17:06:53 2002 From: stephan.richter@tufts.edu (Stephan Richter) Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 12:06:53 -0500 Subject: [EuroPython] what about september? In-Reply-To: <008701c28c89$3c2fa9c0$1e71a8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> References: <20021109153941.GC11306@vet.uu.nl> <3DD3D80F.5090903@lemburg.com> <008701c28c89$3c2fa9c0$1e71a8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> Message-ID: <200211151206.53460.stephan.richter@tufts.edu> On Friday 15 November 2002 04:27, Tom Deprez wrote: > > I would also like to see substantial (financial) support from > > Zope Corp for the forum we give to this company's products at the > > conference. > > Mmm, I don't see a point here... After all, zope is open-source... they are > not promoting their own company. > If you would claim to have Zope Corp to pay for having a track on the > open-source Zope product, then you should do the same concerning Python. > Last year, there were no commercial Zope products of Zope Corp just talks > about the open-source products. I even don't know if they still have > commercial products. They are more a company which uses zope in their > projects with clients. I totally agree with Tom. I would mainly go to a Python conference for Zope, whether Zope Corp. sends delagates or not. For me it is just a way to meet other Zope developers in Europe. Regards, Stephan -- Stephan Richter CBU Physics & Chemistry (B.S.) / Tufts Physics (Ph.D. student) Web2k - Web Software Design, Development and Training From magnus@thinkware.se Fri Nov 15 17:53:39 2002 From: magnus@thinkware.se (Magnus Lycka) Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 18:53:39 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] EPC2003: program + length + public + fees In-Reply-To: <023201c28cad$13cae4d0$1e71a8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> References: <3DD4F852.5070108@fountainpark.org> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20021115183643.02a20e78@www.thinkware.se> At 14:44 2002-11-15 +0100, Tom Deprez wrote: > >> And people belonging to all three groups..? I once attended a > >> meeting where you were able to "customize" your badge with colored > >> dots, depending on your interest. This way people can signal > >> interest in more than one category. Honestly, this idea of walking around with coloured bagdes seem a bit odd to me. Is it really so difficult for people to meet and communicate that we need to be tagged? I'm interested in all sorts of theings, and I'd like to be open for all sorts of events. This feels a bit square to me. I don't like being labeled! Isn't it better to just have fixed locations for various issues/ subjects, and let people gather around these locations instead of walking around with some kind of codes? Business Square, Zope Corner, Twisted Staircase and Scientific Dungeon or whatever? How many people are expected to attend anyway? How many was there last year? > > I remember participating in really big conferences when all this was > > computericed in a way that on your tag was a bar code that vendors > > scanned, and they got on to their computers info about the interest > > that we had filled in our registrations. Also on the badge was a > > colour stickers for fast recorgnition into certaing group of > > participants. > >ouch.... and this all in a cheap, low participant amount conference? I think bar-code readers cost about 300 Euros. They can be attached to the keyboard cable and just act as if you had typed digits on the keyboard so they are trivial to integrate with software. Maybe one can borrow or rent some, or buy 2nd hand? Barcodes can be printed with ReportLab, right? So it's not such a high-tech thing, but it's hardly something to have in each stand I guess... If it could be of help in the registration process etc, maybe it shouldn't be ruled out? -- Magnus Lycka, Thinkware AB Alvans vag 99, SE-907 50 UMEA, SWEDEN phone: int+46 70 582 80 65, fax: int+46 70 612 80 65 http://www.thinkware.se/ mailto:magnus@thinkware.se From Nicolas.Chauvat@logilab.fr Fri Nov 15 17:58:41 2002 From: Nicolas.Chauvat@logilab.fr (Nicolas Chauvat) Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 18:58:41 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Re: EPC2003: program + length + public + fees In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20021115175840.GR2911@logilab.fr> On Fri, Nov 15, 2002 at 12:08:16PM +0100, Nicolas Pettiaux wrote: > PROGRAM + LENGTH > I sully support the idea proposed by NicolasC (Chauvat) to have a 3 days > conference with the first day oriented to "consumers" of the applications (by > opposition to developpers) organized around business cases. Me too :-) > PUBLIC > For me there can exist a rather clear distinction between the people, both > ... > > I would also suppose that students, if any, would be in general more > interested by the last 2 days. I do also think that students who are the > future business users as well as developpers should be encouraged by all > means to participate. One of the way is making it really cheap, easy and > ... > FEE > As there would exist different target public (again please consider both > exhibitors and "consumers"), one category that is business oriented and one > that is less, and that there is a temporal split between the 2, we could > consider to make different fees. I suppose the distinction is clear enough to > make the logistics behind not that heavier. (I do also think that this > disctinction can help us, for example in the way that hostesses and/or a > active welcome desks are necessary - hence the associated cost- for the frist > day when it is less the other days. Assuming we have: thursday day1 = business cases friday day2 = tutorials saturday day3 = hackers what about a fee for day1+day2+day3 a lower fee for day2+day3 and an even lower fee for day3 alone. Businesses would pay full price and attend day1 and day2 maybe day3. Most participants would attend day2 and day3. Students with lower budget would attend day3. If we want students to be able to attend tutorials, we get them to pay for day3 and get to enter on day2 (but how do you check that someone actually *is* a student ?) Of course, such a proposal can only be discussed on the basis of last year's budget. Denis, you said you'd send me the accounting information for me to help you out with it... I'm ready :-) -- Nicolas Chauvat http://www.logilab.com - "Mais oł est donc Ornicar ?" - LOGILAB, Paris (France) From Nicolas.Chauvat@logilab.fr Fri Nov 15 18:00:48 2002 From: Nicolas.Chauvat@logilab.fr (Nicolas Chauvat) Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 19:00:48 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] EPC2003: program + length + public + fees In-Reply-To: <01b101c28c98$38dcfe80$1e71a8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> References: <01b101c28c98$38dcfe80$1e71a8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> Message-ID: <20021115180048.GS2911@logilab.fr> > You could for instance ask more fee for the first day, but... > The difficulty I see is how to be sure someone who has a ticket for only the > last 2 days, gets in the 1 day. > (Or vice versa: only ticket for the 1st day) To enter you need a badge. You get badge for day1 and reuse it for following days, but you don't deliver badges on day1 to people that paid for day2 and 3. > This can only be achieved with a very strict check, which isn't possible > like in the setup of last year. Also a very > strict check would impose long waiting rows. I disagree. I think we could have done that kind of check last year (and *yes* I was there welcome the participants and can comment on it ;-) -- Nicolas Chauvat http://www.logilab.com - "Mais oł est donc Ornicar ?" - LOGILAB, Paris (France) From Nicolas.Chauvat@logilab.fr Fri Nov 15 18:06:14 2002 From: Nicolas.Chauvat@logilab.fr (Nicolas Chauvat) Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 19:06:14 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] EPC2003: program + length + public + fees In-Reply-To: <021a01c28cac$d879a6f0$1e71a8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> References: <021a01c28cac$d879a6f0$1e71a8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> Message-ID: <20021115180613.GU2911@logilab.fr> On Fri, Nov 15, 2002 at 02:42:31PM +0100, Tom Deprez wrote: > problem on how to check that these people won't come the 2,3 day as > well...-> perhaps with the colored badges as I proposed in the previous > mail? Simpler: pay for 1+2+3 or 2+3 and that's it. You can not pay for day1 only. -- Nicolas Chauvat http://www.logilab.com - "Mais oł est donc Ornicar ?" - LOGILAB, Paris (France) From Nicolas.Chauvat@logilab.fr Fri Nov 15 18:08:04 2002 From: Nicolas.Chauvat@logilab.fr (Nicolas Chauvat) Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 19:08:04 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] EPC2003: program + length + public + fees In-Reply-To: References: <021a01c28cac$d879a6f0$1e71a8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> Message-ID: <20021115180803.GV2911@logilab.fr> > I think that giving out the freebies somewhere inside the conference would > be a good thing, but handing out a short programme at the entrance will be > necessary. +1 That's even better: don't bother distributing tee-shirts at the entrance, just give people their badge and programme and let them in. They'll get to the "freebies booth" later on if they want their tee-shirt. -- Nicolas Chauvat http://www.logilab.com - "Mais oł est donc Ornicar ?" - LOGILAB, Paris (France) From Nicolas.Chauvat@logilab.fr Fri Nov 15 18:11:15 2002 From: Nicolas.Chauvat@logilab.fr (Nicolas Chauvat) Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 19:11:15 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] EPC2003: program + length + public + fees In-Reply-To: References: <01b101c28c98$38dcfe80$1e71a8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> Message-ID: <20021115181114.GW2911@logilab.fr> > For example: > > day 1 = business day: everyone is welcome in the common exhibition area but > blue badges (ie. for business people who have paid their due fees) only enter > the conference rooms > > day 2 and 3 = developper days : blue badges (for business people) and orange > badges (the other, developpers for example) are welcome everywhere; no > control needed anymore at the entrance. IMHO, business contacts will be even better if only business-oriented guys are around. Most exhibitions have that: day one is for professionals only, others days welcome public. Here, the distinction is not professionals/public, but business/hackers. I think avoiding to mix the two on day 1 is a good idea anyway. They'll mix later on and keep on mixing until saturday night if they want to :-) -- Nicolas Chauvat http://www.logilab.com - "Mais oł est donc Ornicar ?" - LOGILAB, Paris (France) From Nicolas.Chauvat@logilab.fr Fri Nov 15 18:12:20 2002 From: Nicolas.Chauvat@logilab.fr (Nicolas Chauvat) Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 19:12:20 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] EPC2003: program + length + public + fees In-Reply-To: <01f901c28ca9$bab54a00$1e71a8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> References: <01b101c28c98$38dcfe80$1e71a8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> <01f901c28ca9$bab54a00$1e71a8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> Message-ID: <20021115181220.GX2911@logilab.fr> On Fri, Nov 15, 2002 at 02:20:12PM +0100, Tom Deprez wrote: > The biggest problem was to find the person and to give his/her bag and > batch... And that increased the check in time a lot... Perhaps we have to > give the bags on another place? ie we make a desk inside (after check-in) > and by showing your batch, you get your bag... but this still gives the > waiting times for finding the batch for a certain person etc. Yes. Much better. -- Nicolas Chauvat http://www.logilab.com - "Mais oł est donc Ornicar ?" - LOGILAB, Paris (France) From Nicolas.Chauvat@logilab.fr Fri Nov 15 18:14:30 2002 From: Nicolas.Chauvat@logilab.fr (Nicolas Chauvat) Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 19:14:30 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] EPC2003: program + length + public + fees In-Reply-To: <3DD4F3F3.3040308@fountainpark.org> References: <3DD4F3F3.3040308@fountainpark.org> Message-ID: <20021115181430.GY2911@logilab.fr> On Fri, Nov 15, 2002 at 03:17:39PM +0200, Heimo Laukkanen wrote: > Remembering the event in Charleroi - I would have liked to know more > beforehand about people there. I mean I do like to mingle with people > and chit chat, but I would have also liked to use the time more > efficiently. Know better who I can meet and arrange that. > > To support that kind of activity, one thing could be that while > registering and also later - there would be optional fields to tell more > about yourself, your business and specialities. And via the website we > could promote people to meet and discuss openly on different subjects -- > have even small ad hoc 'speciality' tracks somewhere ,-) +1 But I'm not sure that a wiki web is the best tool for that, althought I do not have a better idea at the moment. -- Nicolas Chauvat http://www.logilab.com - "Mais oł est donc Ornicar ?" - LOGILAB, Paris (France) From Nicolas.Chauvat@logilab.fr Fri Nov 15 18:15:42 2002 From: Nicolas.Chauvat@logilab.fr (Nicolas Chauvat) Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 19:15:42 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] EPC2003: program + length + public + fees In-Reply-To: References: <3DD4F3F3.3040308@fountainpark.org> Message-ID: <20021115181542.GZ2911@logilab.fr> On Fri, Nov 15, 2002 at 02:27:45PM +0100, Jens Thiel wrote: > you were able to "customize" your badge with colored dots, depending on your > interest. This way people can signal interest in more than one category. I like that. But with more than four or five colors, it will become too complicated to use... but five should be enough. -- Nicolas Chauvat http://www.logilab.com - "Mais oł est donc Ornicar ?" - LOGILAB, Paris (France) From Nicolas.Chauvat@logilab.fr Fri Nov 15 18:03:09 2002 From: Nicolas.Chauvat@logilab.fr (Nicolas Chauvat) Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 19:03:09 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] EPC2003: program + length + public + fees In-Reply-To: <01c801c28c9d$ff1b2b80$1e71a8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> References: <01c801c28c9d$ff1b2b80$1e71a8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> Message-ID: <20021115180309.GT2911@logilab.fr> > Remember: We haven't worked with tickets last year... People came in with > their invoice. We don't have special tickets with a color tag or something. On day 1, you wait for people with only the badges of the people that are supposed to enter on day one. I don't have your badge == come back tomorrow please. (or pay here for the full conference if we want to allow on-site payments.) -- Nicolas Chauvat http://www.logilab.com - "Mais oł est donc Ornicar ?" - LOGILAB, Paris (France) From Nicolas.Chauvat@logilab.fr Fri Nov 15 18:18:44 2002 From: Nicolas.Chauvat@logilab.fr (Nicolas Chauvat) Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 19:18:44 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] EPC2003: program + length + public + fees In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20021115183643.02a20e78@www.thinkware.se> References: <3DD4F852.5070108@fountainpark.org> <5.1.0.14.0.20021115183643.02a20e78@www.thinkware.se> Message-ID: <20021115181844.GA2911@logilab.fr> On Fri, Nov 15, 2002 at 06:53:39PM +0100, Magnus Lycka wrote: > events. This feels a bit square to me. I don't like being labeled! Have all color dots on your badge then ;-) > Isn't it better to just have fixed locations for various issues/ > subjects, and let people gather around these locations instead of > walking around with some kind of codes? Business Square, Zope Corner, > Twisted Staircase and Scientific Dungeon or whatever? What about doing both ? Locations and badges ? [and then, we could use a camera to track the diffusion of color dots and for example study whether people that tag their badge with a Zope dot actually lurk in the Zope Corner or not... interesting :-] -- Nicolas Chauvat http://www.logilab.com - "Mais oł est donc Ornicar ?" - LOGILAB, Paris (France) From Nicolas.Chauvat@logilab.fr Fri Nov 15 18:24:08 2002 From: Nicolas.Chauvat@logilab.fr (Nicolas Chauvat) Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 19:24:08 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] EPC2003: program + length + public + fees In-Reply-To: <3DD4FD0E.3010500@fountainpark.org> References: <3DD4F3F3.3040308@fountainpark.org> <021201c28cab$91b1f390$1e71a8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> <3DD4FD0E.3010500@fountainpark.org> Message-ID: <20021115182408.GB2911@logilab.fr> On Fri, Nov 15, 2002 at 03:56:30PM +0200, Heimo Laukkanen wrote: > Tom Deprez wrote: > > >eg Green : 3 days > > Blue : last 2 days > > Yellow : only first day > > Simple. Good. +1 -1. Use colors for interests (maybe) not for tagging people 'business' or 'hackers'. And do not prevent people that come on day1 to attend the other days. Even Simpler: you have a badge, you get in. You don't have a badge, you don't get in. Better :-) > >I even don't know if all people would like to be pointed as 'business', > >'hacker', ... > >Would you really be only interested in people which have the same color tag > >as yours? > > Well the idea is like with color you could put yourself out to certain > subjects. Like without words say that 'Here. I am here to make business. > I am interested to know what others do, buy and sell. Do something new'. > Or with a user badge say ' I am here to find products, tools and ideas > to make my life easier '. And with developer / core hacker badge say ' I > participate in all cool stuff and I could have an interesting product or > ideas for you to use or buy'. +1. But limit to five colors: business zope core python web apps ... add more categories here so that we can pick the best ones. -- Nicolas Chauvat http://www.logilab.com - "Mais oł est donc Ornicar ?" - LOGILAB, Paris (France) From hpk@devel.trillke.net Fri Nov 15 18:31:39 2002 From: hpk@devel.trillke.net (holger krekel) Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 19:31:39 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] EPC2003: program + length + public + fees In-Reply-To: <20021115181114.GW2911@logilab.fr>; from Nicolas.Chauvat@logilab.fr on Fri, Nov 15, 2002 at 07:11:15PM +0100 References: <01b101c28c98$38dcfe80$1e71a8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> <20021115181114.GW2911@logilab.fr> Message-ID: <20021115193139.Y14762@prim.han.de> [Nicolas Chauvat Fri, Nov 15, 2002 at 07:11:15PM +0100] > > For example: > > > > day 1 = business day: everyone is welcome in the common exhibition area but > > blue badges (ie. for business people who have paid their due fees) only enter > > the conference rooms > > > > day 2 and 3 = developper days : blue badges (for business people) and orange > > badges (the other, developpers for example) are welcome everywhere; no > > control needed anymore at the entrance. > > IMHO, business contacts will be even better if only business-oriented guys are > around. Most exhibitions have that: day one is for professionals only, others > days welcome public. > > Here, the distinction is not professionals/public, but business/hackers. I > think avoiding to mix the two on day 1 is a good idea anyway. They'll > mix later on and keep on mixing until saturday night if they want to :-) Were there any complaints from business or dev people last time? I enjoyed the mixture of business and development tracks. I am interested in certain businesses and certain python projects. There is no clear barrier separating the groups which is a good thing IMO. It didn't occur to me that the python business people were extremely eager to have a more formal type of environment. Pythonic business people seem more interesting than "usual" business people to me as much as python developers are compared to many other communities. Why not build on that? regards, holger From Nicolas.Chauvat@logilab.fr Fri Nov 15 18:32:03 2002 From: Nicolas.Chauvat@logilab.fr (Nicolas Chauvat) Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 19:32:03 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] EPC2003: registration : summary 1 In-Reply-To: <027401c28cb1$fc9ec9c0$1e71a8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> References: <3DD4F3F3.3040308@fountainpark.org> <021201c28cab$91b1f390$1e71a8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> <027401c28cb1$fc9ec9c0$1e71a8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> Message-ID: <20021115183203.GC2911@logilab.fr> On Fri, Nov 15, 2002 at 03:19:19PM +0100, Tom Deprez wrote: > * We want to have 3 full days : 1 business; 2&3 mixed (but mostly oriented > to the programmers, etc) What about: thursday day1 = business friday day2 = tutorials saturday day3 = hackers > * People need to be able to register for: > > All 3 days > Only 2 last days yes. > First day (I think this is neccessary too) Hmm. I don't. Business users coming on day 1 can pay full price, even if they do not attend the last two days. What make you think we need to have a first-day-only entrance? > Having a full 3-day ticket and a cheap 2-day ticket only. The first day > would include "premium service+catering", so that you > could eg. invite customers to the conference (as suggested by someone on the > list). The developer days must be content with water+bread only ;-) Or call > the 3-days ticket 1-day "businees conference ticket", with free admission to > the developer days :-) +1 > * Ideas > > Interest Categories: > It would perhaps be nice to know what interest certain people have. This > can be done, but at the moment I'm afraid it will make it too complicated > and will only increase costs. Perhaps the easiest way is to allow a > checklist on the batch and let people fill it in themselfs... But then the > batch becomes too crowded perhaps? Let people go to the "freebies booth" to get colored dots to stick on their badges. Have a legend on a poster in a visible place (side-by-side to the programme of the conference for example). > Central Place for everybody, rooms only for payed visitors: > This would imply that we need to check people entering the rooms, so > more checks. We should discuss this more I think. Would you want to have a "central place" open to non-paying public? > Give the freebies bags at another place and you get one by showing your > entry ticket. > This would reduce the time at check-in +1 > * Problems: > > How to reduce the waiting rows: > > We could make seperate rows at check in (pre-registered, and non > pre-registered) +1 > How to reduce the time for finding-of-batch-and-bag? > > We could give the bag on another place, so we reduce the time needed to > make the bag. Finding the registered person and giving the batch can > probably only be made quicker by using a PC with a database and printing the > batch directly, so the searching is automatically and you don't need to find > the batch... But this implies of course the creation of this all. Do you mean s/batch/badge/g ? -- Nicolas Chauvat http://www.logilab.com - "Mais oł est donc Ornicar ?" - LOGILAB, Paris (France) From huima@fountainpark.org Fri Nov 15 18:42:23 2002 From: huima@fountainpark.org (Heimo Laukkanen) Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 20:42:23 +0200 Subject: [EuroPython] EPC2003: program + length + public + fees References: <3DD4F852.5070108@fountainpark.org> <5.1.0.14.0.20021115183643.02a20e78@www.thinkware.se> Message-ID: <3DD5400F.3040905@fountainpark.org> Magnus Lycka wrote: > Honestly, this idea of walking around with coloured bagdes seem > a bit odd to me. Is it really so difficult for people to meet > and communicate that we need to be tagged? I'm interested in > all sorts of theings, and I'd like to be open for all sorts of > events. This feels a bit square to me. I don't like being labeled! Corner idea is really good. And I agree that there is a problem being labeled, but there is certain pros about labels. Think about 200 persons in a bar. Certain sub-cultures have their own labels for making meeting people a lot easier. For example in certain gay cultures wearing a certain clothes having accessories etc. mean different things: some sign is a signal for just having one night stand, some signs are for a certain type of extreme sex etc. ,--) Signs and labels help people participating make the most out of their time there, meeting and connecting with certain agenda in their mind. If you don't have an agenda, then you can have no signs or all of the signs. The meaning of a good visible sign is to say everyone without words "HEY I AM INTERESTED IN THIS". > Barcodes can be printed with ReportLab, right? > So it's not such a high-tech thing, but it's hardly > something to have in each stand I guess... > > If it could be of help in the registration process > etc, maybe it shouldn't be ruled out? Hey hey hey... I said that the barcode idea was implemented in real BIG conference / expo, not that it should be implemented here. It doesn't make sense in small groups. In a really big expo, where there are thousands of participants from many different industries it makes sense for vendors to get info of people visiting their stand by just scanning a bar code - and seeing even seeing what they marked as their interests beforehand. ,-) -huima From Nicolas.Chauvat@logilab.fr Fri Nov 15 18:41:55 2002 From: Nicolas.Chauvat@logilab.fr (Nicolas Chauvat) Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 19:41:55 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] EPC2003: program + length + public + fees In-Reply-To: <20021115193139.Y14762@prim.han.de> References: <01b101c28c98$38dcfe80$1e71a8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> <20021115181114.GW2911@logilab.fr> <20021115193139.Y14762@prim.han.de> Message-ID: <20021115184155.GD2911@logilab.fr> On Fri, Nov 15, 2002 at 07:31:39PM +0100, holger krekel wrote: > Were there any complaints from business or dev people last time? > > I enjoyed the mixture of business and development tracks. I am > interested in certain businesses and certain python projects. There is > no clear barrier separating the groups which is a good thing IMO. > > It didn't occur to me that the python business people were extremely > eager to have a more formal type of environment. Pythonic business > people seem more interesting than "usual" business people to me > as much as python developers are compared to many other communities. > Why not build on that? There was *no* business people at last year's conference. To be exact, there was some companies fishing for business, but not a single person that looked, even remotely, like someone would could write a check :-) We can go either way: hackers only event OR business and hackers event. Both are fine as long as the target is clearly defined. Last year was the former, *not* the latter. I was the one suggesting along with Nicolas Pettiaux that we could make it otherwise, but it does not *have* to be otherwise. There are other ways to get in touch with businesses than that kind of event. -- Nicolas Chauvat http://www.logilab.com - "Mais oł est donc Ornicar ?" - LOGILAB, Paris (France) From huima@fountainpark.org Fri Nov 15 18:50:34 2002 From: huima@fountainpark.org (Heimo Laukkanen) Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 20:50:34 +0200 Subject: [EuroPython] EPC2003: program + length + public + fees References: <3DD4F3F3.3040308@fountainpark.org> <20021115181542.GZ2911@logilab.fr> Message-ID: <3DD541FA.5040308@fountainpark.org> Nicolas Chauvat wrote: > On Fri, Nov 15, 2002 at 02:27:45PM +0100, Jens Thiel wrote: > >>you were able to "customize" your badge with colored dots, depending on your >>interest. This way people can signal interest in more than one category. > > I like that. But with more than four or five colors, it will become too > complicated to use... but five should be enough. Agree. You can buy colored round stickers easily, and they don't cost that much. +1 -huima From Nicolas.Chauvat@logilab.fr Fri Nov 15 19:05:01 2002 From: Nicolas.Chauvat@logilab.fr (Nicolas Chauvat) Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 20:05:01 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Summary in the wiki Message-ID: <20021115190501.GE2911@logilab.fr> The summary of today's thread is in the wiki at http://www.europython.org/draftwiki/EuroPython2003 Please remember that this wiki is "private" in the sense that it is not meant for a wide public but for participants to the organisation (which is an open forum and process). Comments awaited. -- Nicolas Chauvat http://www.logilab.com - "Mais oł est donc Ornicar ?" - LOGILAB, Paris (France) From itamar@itamarst.org Fri Nov 15 19:23:17 2002 From: itamar@itamarst.org (Itamar Shtull-Trauring) Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 14:23:17 -0500 Subject: [EuroPython] EPC2003: program + length + public + fees In-Reply-To: <20021115184155.GD2911@logilab.fr> References: <01b101c28c98$38dcfe80$1e71a8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> <20021115181114.GW2911@logilab.fr> <20021115193139.Y14762@prim.han.de> <20021115184155.GD2911@logilab.fr> Message-ID: <20021115142317.357a6636.itamar@itamarst.org> On Fri, 15 Nov 2002 19:41:55 +0100 "Nicolas Chauvat" wrote: > There was *no* business people at last year's conference. To be exact, > there was some companies fishing for business, but not a single person > that looked, even remotely, like someone would could write a check :-) I got some work as a result of the conference. I know of other people who did as well, directly or indirectly. Probably not what you meant, but it does promote business relations among Python companies and programmers. From hpk@devel.trillke.net Fri Nov 15 19:43:09 2002 From: hpk@devel.trillke.net (holger krekel) Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 20:43:09 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] EPC2003: program + length + public + fees In-Reply-To: <20021115142317.357a6636.itamar@itamarst.org>; from itamar@itamarst.org on Fri, Nov 15, 2002 at 02:23:17PM -0500 References: <01b101c28c98$38dcfe80$1e71a8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> <20021115181114.GW2911@logilab.fr> <20021115193139.Y14762@prim.han.de> <20021115184155.GD2911@logilab.fr> <20021115142317.357a6636.itamar@itamarst.org> Message-ID: <20021115204309.A14762@prim.han.de> [Itamar Shtull-Trauring Fri, Nov 15, 2002 at 02:23:17PM -0500] > On Fri, 15 Nov 2002 19:41:55 +0100 > "Nicolas Chauvat" wrote: > > > There was *no* business people at last year's conference. To be exact, > > there was some companies fishing for business, but not a single person > > that looked, even remotely, like someone would could write a check :-) > > I got some work as a result of the conference. I know of other people > who did as well, directly or indirectly. Probably not what you meant, > but it does promote business relations among Python companies and > programmers. seconded. For people coming to write checks it would need to be a *very* different event and probably more of a "fair" type of thing like CEBIT or Systems. holger From andy@reportlab.com Sat Nov 16 18:55:36 2002 From: andy@reportlab.com (Andy Robinson) Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 18:55:36 -0000 Subject: [EuroPython] EPC2003: program + length + public + fees In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20021115183643.02a20e78@www.thinkware.se> Message-ID: > Honestly, this idea of walking around with coloured bagdes seem > a bit odd to me. Is it really so difficult for people to meet > and communicate that we need to be tagged? I'm interested in > all sorts of theings, and I'd like to be open for all sorts of > events. This feels a bit square to me. I don't like being labeled! > Isn't it better to just have fixed locations for various issues/ > subjects, and let people gather around these locations instead of > walking around with some kind of codes? Business Square, Zope Corner, > Twisted Staircase and Scientific Dungeon or whatever? Now THAT's a good idea. > >ouch.... and this all in a cheap, low participant amount conference? > > Barcodes can be printed with ReportLab, right? > So it's not such a high-tech thing, but it's hardly > something to have in each stand I guess... > > If it could be of help in the registration process > etc, maybe it shouldn't be ruled out? I think that there should be a 'pre-registration' step once people have paid where people (a) choose what they want in their brochure, (b) indicate the tracks they are most likely to attend to give some idea of space planning, and (c) 'design their badge' within certain parameters :-) It should always look like a EuroPython conference badge, but if they want to add a company name or logo or extra sentence in a defined space, they can do so. You could even pick a bunch of standard icons to denote yourself as a Twisted, Zopista, Plongeur or whatever. When they arrive, the badge will be waiting as one label on a sheet of labels. There is no business benefit in this whatever but it's a cute little promo for ReportLab. We have enough notice this year and I would really like to generate all possible printed materials, as long as the data can be put in a database :-) I can then put "don't ask me about Stackless..." on mine and avoid all those makes-my-brain-hurt conversations :-) HTH, Andy From Tom Deprez" <01c801c28c9d$ff1b2b80$1e71a8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> <20021115180309.GT2911@logilab.fr> Message-ID: <00cd01c28ee4$f9000150$8901a8c0@skullsplitter> Nicolas Chauvat wrote: >> Remember: We haven't worked with tickets last year... People came in >> with their invoice. We don't have special tickets with a color tag >> or something. > > On day 1, you wait for people with only the badges of the people that > are supposed to enter on day one. > > I don't have your badge == come back tomorrow please. > > (or pay here for the full conference if we want to allow on-site > payments.) ok, this is possible, but doesn't this impose a long waiting row? People will start to discuss, etc, etc... Tom. From Tom Deprez" <01b101c28c98$38dcfe80$1e71a8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> <20021115181114.GW2911@logilab.fr> <20021115193139.Y14762@prim.han.de> <20021115184155.GD2911@logilab.fr> Message-ID: <00ce01c28ee4$fc2fe480$8901a8c0@skullsplitter> I still don't see why we need to seperate all the people. I honoustly hate it when somebody puts me in square and tells me 'well, this is only for X kind of people, you aren't an X person, so we don't want you here'. I always had the idea that people are complement to each other. A business person needs the help from a programmer and a programmer can learn from a business person as well. If you put people in squares (are how do you say it in english), then it looks more like privating your thingie. Tom. Nicolas Chauvat wrote: > On Fri, Nov 15, 2002 at 07:31:39PM +0100, holger krekel wrote: >> Were there any complaints from business or dev people last time? >> >> I enjoyed the mixture of business and development tracks. I am >> interested in certain businesses and certain python projects. There >> is no clear barrier separating the groups which is a good thing IMO. >> >> It didn't occur to me that the python business people were extremely >> eager to have a more formal type of environment. Pythonic business >> people seem more interesting than "usual" business people to me >> as much as python developers are compared to many other communities. >> Why not build on that? > > There was *no* business people at last year's conference. To be exact, > there was some companies fishing for business, but not a single > person that looked, even remotely, like someone would could write a > check :-) > > We can go either way: hackers only event OR business and hackers > event. Both are fine as long as the target is clearly defined. Last > year was the former, *not* the latter. > > I was the one suggesting along with Nicolas Pettiaux that we could > make it otherwise, but it does not *have* to be otherwise. There are > other ways to get in touch with businesses than that kind of event. From Tom Deprez" Message-ID: <00fa01c28ee6$6e81d560$8901a8c0@skullsplitter> The only problem I see with a only business event (day 1), is that those people also will expect some things. Things which will make it, well...., expensier... Now, you can, well, they will pay for it... but .... how many business people do you think intend to come? See the problems we had last year for having some booths, commercials on the conference... this was really a battle. Business people themselfs told that the prices were too expensive (while they were rather cheap if you look at other conferences) and now in the sudden, they would like to pay more? (yes, I'm always the pessimistic guy :-)) Tom. Nicolas Chauvat wrote: > The summary of today's thread is in the wiki at > > http://www.europython.org/draftwiki/EuroPython2003 > > Please remember that this wiki is "private" in the sense that it is > not meant for a wide public but for participants to the organisation > (which is an open forum and process). > > Comments awaited. From Nicolas.Chauvat@logilab.fr Mon Nov 18 12:08:10 2002 From: Nicolas.Chauvat@logilab.fr (Nicolas Chauvat) Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 13:08:10 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] EPC2003: program + length + public + fees In-Reply-To: <00cd01c28ee4$f9000150$8901a8c0@skullsplitter> References: <01c801c28c9d$ff1b2b80$1e71a8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> <20021115180309.GT2911@logilab.fr> <00cd01c28ee4$f9000150$8901a8c0@skullsplitter> Message-ID: <20021118120810.GB32256@logilab.fr> On Mon, Nov 18, 2002 at 10:20:18AM +0100, Tom Deprez wrote: > Nicolas Chauvat wrote: > >> Remember: We haven't worked with tickets last year... People came in > >> with their invoice. We don't have special tickets with a color tag > >> or something. > > > > On day 1, you wait for people with only the badges of the people that > > are supposed to enter on day one. > > > > I don't have your badge == come back tomorrow please. > > > > (or pay here for the full conference if we want to allow on-site > > payments.) > > ok, this is possible, but doesn't this impose a long waiting row? People > will start to discuss, etc, etc... I don't follow you. Could you explain who will be in line, who will want to discuss, etc. The process we are describing would be explained to people *before* the conference, right ? -- Nicolas Chauvat http://www.logilab.com - "Mais oł est donc Ornicar ?" - LOGILAB, Paris (France) From Nicolas.Chauvat@logilab.fr Mon Nov 18 12:11:41 2002 From: Nicolas.Chauvat@logilab.fr (Nicolas Chauvat) Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 13:11:41 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] EPC2003: program + length + public + fees In-Reply-To: <00ce01c28ee4$fc2fe480$8901a8c0@skullsplitter> References: <01b101c28c98$38dcfe80$1e71a8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> <20021115181114.GW2911@logilab.fr> <20021115193139.Y14762@prim.han.de> <20021115184155.GD2911@logilab.fr> <00ce01c28ee4$fc2fe480$8901a8c0@skullsplitter> Message-ID: <20021118121141.GC32256@logilab.fr> On Mon, Nov 18, 2002 at 10:28:22AM +0100, Tom Deprez wrote: > I still don't see why we need to seperate all the people. I honoustly > hate it when somebody puts me in square and tells me 'well, this is only > for X kind of people, you aren't an X person, so we don't want you > here'. > I always had the idea that people are complement to each other. A > business person needs the help from a programmer and a programmer can > learn from a business person as well. > If you put people in squares (are how do you say it in english), then it > looks more like privating your thingie. I agree, "putting labels on people is bad". But let me guess, you never had a lot of opportunities to be in touch with "business people" have you ? The ones that are interested in buying things and give work to your company when they do ? -- Nicolas Chauvat http://www.logilab.com - "Mais oł est donc Ornicar ?" - LOGILAB, Paris (France) From Tom Deprez" <01c801c28c9d$ff1b2b80$1e71a8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> <20021115180309.GT2911@logilab.fr> <00cd01c28ee4$f9000150$8901a8c0@skullsplitter> <20021118120810.GB32256@logilab.fr> Message-ID: <01c601c28efc$bd447c00$8901a8c0@skullsplitter> > I don't follow you. Could you explain who will be in line, who will > want to discuss, etc. > > The process we are describing would be explained to people *before* > the conference, right ? hehe, of course this wil be explained before..... but you do know how people are.... Tom. From Nicolas.Chauvat@logilab.fr Mon Nov 18 12:22:26 2002 From: Nicolas.Chauvat@logilab.fr (Nicolas Chauvat) Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 13:22:26 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] EPC2003: program + length + public + fees In-Reply-To: <01c601c28efc$bd447c00$8901a8c0@skullsplitter> References: <01c801c28c9d$ff1b2b80$1e71a8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> <20021115180309.GT2911@logilab.fr> <00cd01c28ee4$f9000150$8901a8c0@skullsplitter> <20021118120810.GB32256@logilab.fr> <01c601c28efc$bd447c00$8901a8c0@skullsplitter> Message-ID: <20021118122226.GJ32256@logilab.fr> On Mon, Nov 18, 2002 at 01:18:19PM +0100, Tom Deprez wrote: > > > I don't follow you. Could you explain who will be in line, who will > > want to discuss, etc. > > > > The process we are describing would be explained to people *before* > > the conference, right ? > > > hehe, of course this wil be explained before..... but you do know how > people are.... Well, that's not a very convincing answer. :-) -- Nicolas Chauvat http://www.logilab.com - "Mais oł est donc Ornicar ?" - LOGILAB, Paris (France) From hpk@devel.trillke.net Mon Nov 18 12:40:10 2002 From: hpk@devel.trillke.net (holger krekel) Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 13:40:10 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] EPC2003: program + length + public + fees In-Reply-To: <20021118121141.GC32256@logilab.fr>; from Nicolas.Chauvat@logilab.fr on Mon, Nov 18, 2002 at 01:11:41PM +0100 References: <01b101c28c98$38dcfe80$1e71a8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> <20021115181114.GW2911@logilab.fr> <20021115193139.Y14762@prim.han.de> <20021115184155.GD2911@logilab.fr> <00ce01c28ee4$fc2fe480$8901a8c0@skullsplitter> <20021118121141.GC32256@logilab.fr> Message-ID: <20021118134009.N14762@prim.han.de> [Nicolas Chauvat Mon, Nov 18, 2002 at 01:11:41PM +0100] > On Mon, Nov 18, 2002 at 10:28:22AM +0100, Tom Deprez wrote: > > I still don't see why we need to seperate all the people. I honoustly > > hate it when somebody puts me in square and tells me 'well, this is only > > for X kind of people, you aren't an X person, so we don't want you > > here'. > > I always had the idea that people are complement to each other. A > > business person needs the help from a programmer and a programmer can > > learn from a business person as well. > > If you put people in squares (are how do you say it in english), then it > > looks more like privating your thingie. > > I agree, "putting labels on people is bad". But let me guess, you never had a > lot of opportunities to be in touch with "business people" have you ? The > ones that are interested in buying things and give work to your company > when they do ? I have this experience and i am not convinced that going for 'big' businesses is what EuroPython should aim for. There *were* a lot of business contacts last time. There is plenty of room for improvement supporting business activities but i think it should be aimed at smaller (pythonic:-) businesses. Maybe do a "lightning business forum" where people from companies just introduce themselves, their projects , their plans and possibly their job offers? After all, there is no place like EuroPython to look for experienced and *dedicated* python programmers! regards & all the best, holger From Nicolas.Chauvat@logilab.fr Mon Nov 18 13:13:31 2002 From: Nicolas.Chauvat@logilab.fr (Nicolas Chauvat) Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 14:13:31 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] EPC2003: program + length + public + fees In-Reply-To: <20021118134009.N14762@prim.han.de> References: <01b101c28c98$38dcfe80$1e71a8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> <20021115181114.GW2911@logilab.fr> <20021115193139.Y14762@prim.han.de> <20021115184155.GD2911@logilab.fr> <00ce01c28ee4$fc2fe480$8901a8c0@skullsplitter> <20021118121141.GC32256@logilab.fr> <20021118134009.N14762@prim.han.de> Message-ID: <20021118131330.GM32256@logilab.fr> On Mon, Nov 18, 2002 at 01:40:10PM +0100, holger krekel wrote: > I have this experience and i am not convinced that going for 'big' > businesses is what EuroPython should aim for. There *were* a lot of > business contacts last time. There is plenty of room for improvement > supporting business activities but i think it should be aimed at > smaller (pythonic:-) businesses. Maybe do a "lightning business forum" > where people from companies just introduce themselves, their projects , > their plans and possibly their job offers? After all, there is no place like > EuroPython to look for experienced and *dedicated* python programmers! Could you better explain what you call "smaller pythonic businesses"? A few examples of such businesses would help, as well as a few examples of what businesses opportunities could arise. I have a feeling that in your opinion, "business at europython" rhymes with "let pythonic companies find programmers for consulting job". Is this correct? -- Nicolas Chauvat http://www.logilab.com - "Mais oł est donc Ornicar ?" - LOGILAB, Paris (France) From Nicolas.Chauvat@logilab.fr Mon Nov 18 13:20:02 2002 From: Nicolas.Chauvat@logilab.fr (Nicolas Chauvat) Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 14:20:02 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Summary in the wiki In-Reply-To: <00fa01c28ee6$6e81d560$8901a8c0@skullsplitter> References: <20021115190501.GE2911@logilab.fr> <00fa01c28ee6$6e81d560$8901a8c0@skullsplitter> Message-ID: <20021118132001.GN32256@logilab.fr> On Mon, Nov 18, 2002 at 10:39:44AM +0100, Tom Deprez wrote: > Now, you can, well, they will pay for it... but .... how many business > people do you think intend to come? At the moment and considering the current tilt of the conference programme (same as last year, hacker-friendly only), my opinion is that no "business people" would come. > See the problems we had last year for having some booths, commercials on > the conference... this was really a battle. Business people themselfs > told that the prices were too expensive (while they were rather cheap if > you look at other conferences) and now in the sudden, they would like to > pay more? I think you're mistaken. Read last year's discussion thread. A booth is not expensive /per-se/. It is expensive when the expected income is much smaller than the known expense. If you are running a business and get a booth at a conference where no one that may buy something from you will show up, it costs money and becomes sponsorship or advertisement (but you may ask yourself whether you advertise to the right target if no one is susceptible to buy something from you...). -- Nicolas Chauvat http://www.logilab.com - "Mais oł est donc Ornicar ?" - LOGILAB, Paris (France) From hpk@devel.trillke.net Mon Nov 18 13:41:23 2002 From: hpk@devel.trillke.net (holger krekel) Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 14:41:23 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] EPC2003: program + length + public + fees In-Reply-To: <20021118131330.GM32256@logilab.fr>; from Nicolas.Chauvat@logilab.fr on Mon, Nov 18, 2002 at 02:13:31PM +0100 References: <01b101c28c98$38dcfe80$1e71a8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> <20021115181114.GW2911@logilab.fr> <20021115193139.Y14762@prim.han.de> <20021115184155.GD2911@logilab.fr> <00ce01c28ee4$fc2fe480$8901a8c0@skullsplitter> <20021118121141.GC32256@logilab.fr> <20021118134009.N14762@prim.han.de> <20021118131330.GM32256@logilab.fr> Message-ID: <20021118144123.O14762@prim.han.de> [Nicolas Chauvat Mon, Nov 18, 2002 at 02:13:31PM +0100] > On Mon, Nov 18, 2002 at 01:40:10PM +0100, holger krekel wrote: > > I have this experience and i am not convinced that going for 'big' > > businesses is what EuroPython should aim for. There *were* a lot of > > business contacts last time. There is plenty of room for improvement > > supporting business activities but i think it should be aimed at > > smaller (pythonic:-) businesses. Maybe do a "lightning business forum" > > where people from companies just introduce themselves, their projects , > > their plans and possibly their job offers? After all, there is no place like > > EuroPython to look for experienced and *dedicated* python programmers! > > Could you better explain what you call "smaller pythonic businesses"? A > few examples of such businesses would help, as well as a few examples of what > businesses opportunities could arise. i consider "smaller pythonic businesses" to be companies with less than 50 people using python for some of their projects. So Web.de, Zope and Reportlab, infrae, a department from an insurance company, Aragne all qualify but IBM doesn't :-) example opportunity: Web.de (large mail/communication web site) now looks to offer mail services where a service subscriber can get PDF versions of your sent/received mail for archiving purposes (common problem for businesses using email). Juergen comes and sees who is going to do that for him :-) another opportunity: an insurance company (i can't name it here) might want to extend their MVS/Unix python glue modules to work with a lightweight pythonic object database because there are sick of oracle. they send their chief developer to EuroPython to get contacts and ideas for solutions. They won't send their CEO or Product Manager, though. > I have a feeling that in your opinion, "business at europython" rhymes > with "let pythonic companies find programmers for consulting job". Is this > correct? Not quite. Also helping the businesses to get to know each other(s solutions and practices) and organizing communication between companies and people interested in commercial cooperation. Showing off solutions and products is naturally part of the game IMO. But for all the companies already using python there should be the message: if you want to talk/get the brightest people and get up-to-speed with python development, you *must* come to EuroPython. Now a counter question: Do you think you can get businesses to EuroPython which are currently *not* using python and are potentially interested in signing contracts? And who want to have a somewhat more formal arrangement not beeing distracted by hackers talking about metaclasses? regards, holger From mwh@python.net Mon Nov 18 13:45:14 2002 From: mwh@python.net (Michael Hudson) Date: 18 Nov 2002 13:45:14 +0000 Subject: [EuroPython] Summary in the wiki In-Reply-To: "Nicolas Chauvat"'s message of "Mon, 18 Nov 2002 14:20:02 +0100" References: <20021115190501.GE2911@logilab.fr> <00fa01c28ee6$6e81d560$8901a8c0@skullsplitter> <20021118132001.GN32256@logilab.fr> Message-ID: <2mwunbkn4l.fsf@starship.python.net> "Nicolas Chauvat" writes: > On Mon, Nov 18, 2002 at 10:39:44AM +0100, Tom Deprez wrote: > > Now, you can, well, they will pay for it... but .... how many business > > people do you think intend to come? > > At the moment and considering the current tilt of the conference programme > (same as last year, hacker-friendly only), my opinion is that no > "business people" would come. But if it were otherwise, would any "business people" come? A conference with no business types and no hacker types seems particularly pointless. Cheers, M. in this for the hacking. From Jens.Thiel@stochastix.de Mon Nov 18 14:25:57 2002 From: Jens.Thiel@stochastix.de (Jens Thiel) Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 15:25:57 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] business day In-Reply-To: <20021118132001.GN32256@logilab.fr> Message-ID: > If you are running a business and get a booth at a > conference where no one that may buy something from you will show up, it > costs money and becomes sponsorship or advertisement It is still the responsibility of each individual company to advertise their presence on a conference or fair (eg. by mailing or inviting prospective customers). EPC can only provide a forum for such activitites by bringing a "critical mass" together. It may help to distinguish between the possible "business relationships" and see where EPC could help - and how: 1) company to customer ---------------------- The customers usually won't read mailing lists or announcements and must be invited indivdually. To faciliate this, a kind of booth or otherwise pleasant, professional, more formal and business-friendly environment needs to be provided, where the "company" can present themself and "non-pythonics" can feel somewhat "safe" ;-) That is, solutions and marketing blurbs should have priority over technical details. 2) company to prospective employees or free-lancers --------------------------------------------------- Bringing these together can either be done by a company representative introducing their company in a talk, print-add or booth and being contacted by the indivdiual later; or by the CEO sneaking around at the "developer days" and trying to find interesting people. I suspect that both groups will be attending at least day 1-2. 3) company to company cooperation --------------------------------- The very small, 1-3 people businesses, might act more like a freelancer in 2) and will otherwise contact people during the developer days. They should be able to provide at least a "company profile" during the business event, where a "small businesses forum" may help. The larger companies can get together naturally on the 1st day. --- A "business day" will be most helpful for the "1) company to customer" relationship, where 2) and 3) can be integrated with a developer's conference quite well. Organising a business day in a setting like described above would mean to have at least 12 companies with booths, talks, invited customers and a substantial budget to cover expenses and justify the effort. What needs to be done now (before discussing badge design) is: 1. Fix conference location and organization teams 2. Fix + announce the conference and planned schedule 3. (maybe declare day 1 as optional depending on interest) 4. Find companies for day 1 at least 3 months before the conference 5. Announce the final conference schedule depending on feedback Jens. From denis@aragne.com Tue Nov 19 03:50:44 2002 From: denis@aragne.com (Denis =?iso-8859-1?Q?Fr=E8re?=) Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 04:50:44 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Report 2002 - proposal 2003 - 2004 Message-ID: <20021119035043.GH28462@carolo.net> Hi folks, It's awfully late again, I should be in bed, but I guess I owe you some news from Charleroi. EPC 2002 was a great fair, but it was also exhausting. From time to time I doubted on the possibility to have EPC 2003 in Charleroi again. Well, it's not really such a pain in itself, but it's not my only activity. You already know how EPC 2002 was if you were with us in Charleroi last June. Perhaps you don't know another part of the report yet : we earned about nothing (we even covered lot of small expenses from our own pocket) and it was really time consuming. The final accounting is not yet quite closed : some of you still have to pay (part of) their bill. >From our side, I hope we now have paid everyone. And there are some euros left on the bank account, but really not much. I'm pretty sure we can do a better job next time. Even if I let you discuss when and how without saying much, EuroPython 2003 is now again in the top 10 of my todo list. This week-end, Nicolas Pettiaux and I went to France together : I was driving and he was typing while we both were discussing the subject. We didn't discussed the program, we focused on the sponsoring and finding logistical support. Since we were rather short on money last time, we must find some better sponsors for the next edition, we also need a better press coverage, etc. One of my first actual action will be to ask when the venue will be available. I will also ask when Guido can free himself (because I guess you all want him to be with us in 2003). This is the most effective way to fix a date. For the rest, I would like to propose something : the one who wants to organize the EPC 2004 should work very tightly with us on the 2003 edition so that the relay will be soft. We already have a candidate, but other volunteers should speak as soon as possible. >From now on, be sure I follow the posts on the list again, so please, go on with the brainstorming. :-) Denis -- Denis FRERE P3B : Club Python(-Zope) Belge --------- http://www.p3b.org OS3B : Club Open-Software(-Linux) Carolo http://www.os3b.org Aragne : Python-Zope Solutions & Formations http://www.aragne.com From nicolas.pettiaux@ael.be Tue Nov 19 06:35:45 2002 From: nicolas.pettiaux@ael.be (Nicolas Pettiaux) Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 07:35:45 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] EPC2003: program + length + public + fees In-Reply-To: <20021118144123.O14762@prim.han.de> References: <20021118131330.GM32256@logilab.fr> <20021118144123.O14762@prim.han.de> Message-ID: Le Lundi 18 Novembre 2002 14:41, holger krekel a =E9crit : > > > I have this experience and i am not convinced that going for 'big' > > > businesses is what EuroPython should aim for. =20 I am working ac an ICT manager in a public administration of altogether 1= 500=20 employees. Is that a small or a large companies ?=20 For me it is necessary to have as many "comsumer" of python and zope as=20 possible, if possible large ones (with deep pockets :-) not only small on= es=20 if we want to expand zope Regards, Nicolas --=20 Nicolas Pettiaux Association =E9lectronique libre pour la promotion des=20 droits de l'Homme dans la Soci=E9t=E9 de l'information (AEL) - www.ael.be=20 From hpk@devel.trillke.net Tue Nov 19 10:20:05 2002 From: hpk@devel.trillke.net (holger krekel) Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 11:20:05 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] EPC2003: program + length + public + fees In-Reply-To: ; from nicolas.pettiaux@ael.be on Tue, Nov 19, 2002 at 07:35:45AM +0100 References: <20021118131330.GM32256@logilab.fr> <20021118144123.O14762@prim.han.de> Message-ID: <20021119112005.A10361@prim.han.de> [Nicolas Pettiaux Tue, Nov 19, 2002 at 07:35:45AM +0100] > Le Lundi 18 Novembre 2002 14:41, holger krekel a =E9crit : >=20 > > > > I have this experience and i am not convinced that going for 'big= ' > > > > businesses is what EuroPython should aim for. =20 >=20 > I am working ac an ICT manager in a public administration of altogether= 1500=20 > employees. Is that a small or a large companies ?=20 large. did you notice that i gave an example of an insurance company in = my last posting? > For me it is necessary to have as many "comsumer" of python and zope as= =20 > possible, if possible large ones (with deep pockets :-) not only small = ones=20 > if we want to expand zope IMHO companies with deep pockets like to go to "solutions fairs"=20 where Zope would be competing with PHP/JSP/whatever-based stuff. =20 Or does Zope already form a big enough market to attract "consumers"=20 so they'd come - say from England - all the way to Charleroi? =20 I think EuroPython can attract three main groups (in this order): - developers (free, from small companies, from departments of big companies) - all types of academic people (they form a *very* big group ASFAIK) - Zope consumers and businesses already using python or aiming to do so EuroPython2002 wasn't a hackers-only event last year. If you want to=20 see what a hackers-only event is like then go to http://www.fosdem.org/ (Bruxelles, 8/9.2.2003) :-) regards, holger From Nicolas.Chauvat@logilab.fr Tue Nov 19 14:05:45 2002 From: Nicolas.Chauvat@logilab.fr (Nicolas Chauvat) Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 15:05:45 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] EPC2003: program + length + public + fees In-Reply-To: <20021118144123.O14762@prim.han.de> References: <01b101c28c98$38dcfe80$1e71a8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> <20021115181114.GW2911@logilab.fr> <20021115193139.Y14762@prim.han.de> <20021115184155.GD2911@logilab.fr> <00ce01c28ee4$fc2fe480$8901a8c0@skullsplitter> <20021118121141.GC32256@logilab.fr> <20021118134009.N14762@prim.han.de> <20021118131330.GM32256@logilab.fr> <20021118144123.O14762@prim.han.de> Message-ID: <20021119140545.GR32256@logilab.fr> On Mon, Nov 18, 2002 at 02:41:23PM +0100, holger krekel wrote: > i consider "smaller pythonic businesses" to be companies with less than > 50 people using python for some of their projects. So Web.de, Zope and > Reportlab, infrae, a department from an insurance company, Aragne all > qualify but IBM doesn't :-) > > example opportunity: Web.de (large mail/communication web site) > now looks to offer mail services where a service subscriber can get > PDF versions of your sent/received mail for archiving purposes (common > problem for businesses using email). Juergen comes and sees who > is going to do that for him :-) > > another opportunity: an insurance company (i can't name it here) might want > to extend their MVS/Unix python glue modules to work with a lightweight > pythonic object database because there are sick of oracle. they send > their chief developer to EuroPython to get contacts and ideas for > solutions. They won't send their CEO or Product Manager, though. Both would more probably contract freelancers or small companies rather than the typical bigger companies that could afford bigger booths. For such a kind of business, I do not think we need a specific day. But this is not necessarily a problem. As long as our target is explicit, we can make sure to adopt the right way to present EuroPython to every person involved or concerned. > > I have a feeling that in your opinion, "business at europython" rhymes > > with "let pythonic companies find programmers for consulting job". Is this > > correct? > > Not quite. Also helping the businesses to get to know each other(s solutions > and practices) and organizing communication between companies and people > interested in commercial cooperation. Showing off solutions and > products is naturally part of the game IMO. But for all the companies > already using python there should be the message: if you want to talk/get > the brightest people and get up-to-speed with python development, you > *must* come to EuroPython. Then your way to present it to Python companies would be "come and pay for a booth to show that you're part of the Python game" ? This will only work for companies that will want to advertise Python rather than advertise the fitness of their solutions/skills for a particular purpose. My fear is that most companies using Python have customers that don't care what is used as long as it works (which is, I perfectly realize it, an argument *against* having a "business day"). > Now a counter question: Do you think you can get businesses to EuroPython > which are currently *not* using python and are potentially interested in > signing contracts? Ah, ah. I've been expecting that one. Michael Hudson asked it too, at the same time but in another thread. My short answer is "good question". A longer answer is "*I* myself and alone, unfortunately not. But *we* as a group of organizers and python companies trying to grow our pie (i.e. python market), I think so. It would help show potential customers that care about what's inside that Python is a mature technology and a valid choice." Sounds like this is a job for the Python Business Forum, but I'm afraid it does not have the ressources to do it alone either. > And who want to have a somewhat more formal arrangement > not beeing distracted by hackers talking about metaclasses? That's what day1 would be all about. Note: looks like this topic asks for more discussion, comments anyone ? -- Nicolas Chauvat http://www.logilab.com - "Mais oł est donc Ornicar ?" - LOGILAB, Paris (France) From Nicolas.Chauvat@logilab.fr Tue Nov 19 14:14:12 2002 From: Nicolas.Chauvat@logilab.fr (Nicolas Chauvat) Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 15:14:12 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Re: business day In-Reply-To: References: <20021118132001.GN32256@logilab.fr> Message-ID: <20021119141412.GS32256@logilab.fr> On Mon, Nov 18, 2002 at 03:25:57PM +0100, Jens Thiel wrote: > > If you are running a business and get a booth at a > > conference where no one that may buy something from you will show up, it > > costs money and becomes sponsorship or advertisement > > It is still the responsibility of each individual company to advertise their > presence on a conference or fair (eg. by mailing or inviting prospective > customers). We can decide to do it this way, but what most fairs do is provide you with an attendance of potential contacts in exchange of the price of your booth. > EPC can only provide a forum for such activitites by bringing a > "critical mass" together. Yes, critical mass is important. And "customers" critical mass is different from "hackers" critical mass. I think we reached the latter last year and my all point in this thread is trying to figure out whether we can also reach the former next year. > A "business day" will be most helpful for the "1) company to customer" > relationship, where 2) and 3) can be integrated with a developer's > conference quite well. Agreed. > Organising a business day in a setting like described > above would mean to have at least 12 companies with booths, talks, invited > customers and a substantial budget to cover expenses and justify the effort. I think we'd need more precise figures than the above "12 and budget" but in general I agree with the above, althought I'd like to notice the following differences: 1. having a "business fair" with companies exhibiting in "expensive" booths that help cover the expenses. 2. having a "real life use case" day, which was my very first suggestion, during which "users not hackers" could discuss the benefits of using Python in their project/company/part of the galaxy. The second is not about inviting business people with check-writing capacity but about providing a forum for happy Python users to advocate the tools that made them happy. > What needs to be done now (before discussing badge design) is: > > 1. Fix conference location and organization teams > 2. Fix + announce the conference and planned schedule > 3. (maybe declare day 1 as optional depending on interest) > 4. Find companies for day 1 at least 3 months before the conference > 5. Announce the final conference schedule depending on feedback Sounds like Denis is up for another round and already answered that one. -- Nicolas Chauvat http://www.logilab.com - "Mais oł est donc Ornicar ?" - LOGILAB, Paris (France) From Nicolas.Chauvat@logilab.fr Tue Nov 19 14:42:32 2002 From: Nicolas.Chauvat@logilab.fr (Nicolas Chauvat) Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 15:42:32 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] EPC2003: program + length + public + fees In-Reply-To: <20021119112005.A10361@prim.han.de> References: <20021118131330.GM32256@logilab.fr> <20021118144123.O14762@prim.han.de> <20021119112005.A10361@prim.han.de> Message-ID: <20021119144232.GW32256@logilab.fr> > EuroPython2002 wasn't a hackers-only event last year. If you want to > see what a hackers-only event is like then go to > > http://www.fosdem.org/ (Bruxelles, 8/9.2.2003) > > :-) regards, I have another one which I attended: lsm.abul.org :-) -- Nicolas Chauvat http://www.logilab.com - "Mais oł est donc Ornicar ?" - LOGILAB, Paris (France) From Marc.Poinot@onera.fr Tue Nov 19 15:29:04 2002 From: Marc.Poinot@onera.fr (Marc Poinot) Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 16:29:04 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] EPC2003: program + length + public + fees References: <20021118131330.GM32256@logilab.fr> <20021118144123.O14762@prim.han.de> <20021119112005.A10361@prim.han.de> <20021119144232.GW32256@logilab.fr> Message-ID: <3DDA58C0.8ED77CCD@onera.fr> Nicolas Chauvat wrote: > > > EuroPython2002 wasn't a hackers-only event last year. If you want to > > see what a hackers-only event is like then go to > > > > http://www.fosdem.org/ (Bruxelles, 8/9.2.2003) > > > > :-) regards, > > I have another one which I attended: lsm.abul.org :-) > Haaa ! Is it a confirmation Nicolas ? Marcvs [alias LSM in July, between 4th of July and 14th of July] From magnus@thinkware.se Tue Nov 19 22:53:51 2002 From: magnus@thinkware.se (Magnus Lycka) Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 23:53:51 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] EPC2003: program + length + public + fees In-Reply-To: <20021119140545.GR32256@logilab.fr> References: <20021118144123.O14762@prim.han.de> <01b101c28c98$38dcfe80$1e71a8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> <20021115181114.GW2911@logilab.fr> <20021115193139.Y14762@prim.han.de> <20021115184155.GD2911@logilab.fr> <00ce01c28ee4$fc2fe480$8901a8c0@skullsplitter> <20021118121141.GC32256@logilab.fr> <20021118134009.N14762@prim.han.de> <20021118131330.GM32256@logilab.fr> <20021118144123.O14762@prim.han.de> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20021119233954.00ba9f00@www.thinkware.se> At 15:05 2002-11-19 +0100, Nicolas Chauvat wrote: >My fear is >that most companies using Python have customers that don't care what is >used as long as it works (which is, I perfectly realize it, an argument >*against* having a "business day"). Probably. If they are buying a complete product... What I'm very curious about is if we could attract some organizations that develop software; be they banks, industries, government agencies or consulting companies that reason like this: "Hm, maybe we should use Python for our development, but where and how do we get all the resources we might need? Training? Mentors? Support on modules we would use, experts that could help us or sub-contractors that could provide parts of the systems we deliver?" I've certainly seen a lot of organizations that would have a lot to gain from thinking like this. There is a great interest in open source now, both in government and in industry, and Python is after all one of the leading open source development environments. Surely, there must be many people in decision making positions who are wondering how they can produce software faster and at a lower cost, without paying huge amounts of money on licences etc. Perhaps one or two could be made to see the light? Although on the other hand, most people in those positions probably won't see anything that isn't backed by a multi million dollar marketing campaign... :( -- Magnus Lycka, Thinkware AB Alvans vag 99, SE-907 50 UMEA, SWEDEN phone: int+46 70 582 80 65, fax: int+46 70 612 80 65 http://www.thinkware.se/ mailto:magnus@thinkware.se From denis@aragne.com Wed Nov 20 02:21:00 2002 From: denis@aragne.com (Denis =?iso-8859-1?Q?Fr=E8re?=) Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 03:21:00 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] EPC 2003 : When ? In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20021119233954.00ba9f00@www.thinkware.se> References: <20021115181114.GW2911@logilab.fr> <20021115193139.Y14762@prim.han.de> <20021115184155.GD2911@logilab.fr> <00ce01c28ee4$fc2fe480$8901a8c0@skullsplitter> <20021118121141.GC32256@logilab.fr> <20021118134009.N14762@prim.han.de> <20021118131330.GM32256@logilab.fr> <20021118144123.O14762@prim.han.de> <5.1.0.14.0.20021119233954.00ba9f00@www.thinkware.se> Message-ID: <20021120022100.GH28617@carolo.net> This is Guido's preference : > *If* I can make it, I'd definitely prefer sunny June over rainy > October. Now, I'll check the availability of the venue. Denis -- Denis FRERE P3B : Club Python(-Zope) Belge --------- http://www.p3b.org OS3B : Club Open-Software(-Linux) Carolo http://www.os3b.org Aragne : Python-Zope Solutions & Formations http://www.aragne.com From faassen@vet.uu.nl Wed Nov 27 00:11:11 2002 From: faassen@vet.uu.nl (Martijn Faassen) Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 01:11:11 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] EPC2003: program + length + public + fees In-Reply-To: <3DD4F3F3.3040308@fountainpark.org> References: <3DD4F3F3.3040308@fountainpark.org> Message-ID: <20021127001111.GA32760@vet.uu.nl> Heimo Laukkanen wrote: > Remembering the event in Charleroi - I would have liked to know more > beforehand about people there. I mean I do like to mingle with people > and chit chat, but I would have also liked to use the time more > efficiently. Know better who I can meet and arrange that. [snip] > In the simplest form this is just a Wikiweb, where people can > communicate. But it should be made public and promoted that poeple would > take an advantage of these possibilities and use the valuable 'face > time' well, meeting interesting people. We actually had such wiki pages this time, but they were not communicated well enough as it was also our internal organizational wiki which provided a conflict of interest. :) We can prepare and announce a wiki more in advance this time. Regards, Martijn From huima@fountainpark.org Wed Nov 27 00:12:42 2002 From: huima@fountainpark.org (Heimo Laukkanen) Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 02:12:42 +0200 Subject: [EuroPython] EPC2003: program + length + public + fees References: <3DD4F3F3.3040308@fountainpark.org> <20021127001111.GA32760@vet.uu.nl> Message-ID: <3DE40DFA.60002@fountainpark.org> Martijn Faassen wrote: > We actually had such wiki pages this time, but they were not communicated > well enough as it was also our internal organizational wiki which > provided a conflict of interest. :) > We can prepare and announce a wiki more in advance this time. Yep. I remeber that - but since it was used in very different ways, it was not clear on how I could have used it to find more about people, who are coming. Possibly Wiki is not the best way to do it - but will do - If it is instructed well enough. -- Heimo Laukkanen Oy Fountain Park Ltd Hämeentie 153 B, 00560 Helsinki, Finland tel. +358 9 777 68 161, gsm +358 40 759 1110, fax +358 9 777 68 100 http://www.fountainpark.com From faassen@vet.uu.nl Wed Nov 27 00:19:25 2002 From: faassen@vet.uu.nl (Martijn Faassen) Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 01:19:25 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Summary in the wiki In-Reply-To: <20021118132001.GN32256@logilab.fr> References: <20021115190501.GE2911@logilab.fr> <00fa01c28ee6$6e81d560$8901a8c0@skullsplitter> <20021118132001.GN32256@logilab.fr> Message-ID: <20021127001924.GB32760@vet.uu.nl> Nicolas Chauvat wrote: > On Mon, Nov 18, 2002 at 10:39:44AM +0100, Tom Deprez wrote: > > Now, you can, well, they will pay for it... but .... how many business > > people do you think intend to come? > > At the moment and considering the current tilt of the conference programme > (same as last year, hacker-friendly only), my opinion is that no > "business people" would come. Note that the comments I got from last year's conference from several people was that there *were* more business people around than in a typical techie conference like this. Many there were hackers/businesspeople, not straight hacker or straight business person. I mean, we had a Python Business Forum that was founded at the conference.. It was a good conference for Infrae too, businesswise. I think one of the reasons we're having this discussion in the first place is that we're not all pure hackers. :) So let's not overstate matters. Anyway, I think nobody wants to make the conference a trade fair. I also think nobody wants to banish all business interests. Having people visit for some days only is certainly possible. We can have days with a focus. We have the option of *multiple tracks* which allows people to pick and choose the mix of business and pleasure, um, I mean, hacker stuff they desire. Regards, Martijn From faassen@vet.uu.nl Wed Nov 27 00:22:31 2002 From: faassen@vet.uu.nl (Martijn Faassen) Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 01:22:31 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] business day In-Reply-To: References: <20021118132001.GN32256@logilab.fr> Message-ID: <20021127002231.GC32760@vet.uu.nl> Jens Thiel wrote: [snip] > It may help to distinguish between the possible "business relationships" and > see where EPC could help - and how: > > 1) company to customer > 2) company to prospective employees or free-lancers I'd like to add a note that for Infrae EuroPython was a great success in this department. > 3) company to company cooperation I think EuroPython can be considered a success here too; we had the PBF activities and so on. > A "business day" will be most helpful for the "1) company to customer" > relationship, where 2) and 3) can be integrated with a developer's > conference quite well. Exactly. This is why it worked already. :) Thanks for this analysis. Regards, Martijn