From kirby.urner at gmail.com Mon Jul 2 12:32:44 2018 From: kirby.urner at gmail.com (kirby urner) Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2018 09:32:44 -0700 Subject: [Edu-sig] turtle coordinates: Y increase downards - as in most graphics API? In-Reply-To: References: <235F81C7-E335-46A8-BF8F-02C9E8F30061@willingconsulting.com> Message-ID: Thanks for your persistence on this Andre. I agree with you that this is a serious bug. Curriculum writers down the road will steer clear of Python's turtle if it's not up to responding sanely to left and right. Our loyalty should be to teachers and teaching material developers in the future, not as much to prior editions with unfortunate workarounds. Kirby On Wed, Jun 27, 2018 at 6:29 PM, Andre Roberge wrote: > > > On Mon, Jun 18, 2018 at 1:50 PM Jurgis Pralgauskis < > jurgis.pralgauskis at gmail.com> wrote: > >> Ok, I could test it :) >> >> >> Should I wait for some commit and comment results on the issues site or >> how...? >> > > ?Jurgis: Could you just apply the patch I submitted locally and test it? > > Or would anyone else volunteer to test it? Obviously, I can provide an > independent test of my own contribution. :-)? > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From andre.roberge at gmail.com Tue Jul 3 10:27:05 2018 From: andre.roberge at gmail.com (Andre Roberge) Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2018 11:27:05 -0300 Subject: [Edu-sig] Editors/IDEs for teaching Message-ID: Hi everyone, I'm compiling a list of available editors for Python designed specifically for teaching, with information about the primary targeted audiences and would welcome your comments and/or suggestions for additions or corrections. So far, I have Target audience (my own draft definition; feel free to improve upon this): * young learners (elementary and high school students) * hobbyists - beginners of all ages learning on their own * CS 100 course: elective course targeted at non CS (or even non STEM) students. The focus is more on concepts, using Python as the practical tool to learn these concepts, rather than learning the Pythonic idioms or learning the effectiveness of various algorithms. For example, list comprehensions would likely not be covered in such a course as it does not add anything conceptually to an explicit for loop. * CS 101 course: core course in CS meant as a requirement for future courses. Some pythonic idioms and details about algorithms would likely be covered. Editors / IDEs : * IDLE: included with Python. Intended for everyone. * Mu (https://codewith.mu/). Primarily intended for young learners and hobbyists. * Thonny. (http://thonny.org/) I am guessing that it is primarily intended for CS 101. * Wing 101 (https://wingware.com/downloads/wingide-101) Primarily intended for CS 101. * PyCharm Edu (https://www.jetbrains.com/pycharm-edu/) Primarily intended for CS 101. I am not looking for web-based solutions [otherwise, I would have had included Reeborg's World ;-)] and do not want to include obsolete or no longer maintained software (like rur-ple, the precursor to Reeborg's World.) Best, Andr? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ntoll at ntoll.org Tue Jul 3 10:48:52 2018 From: ntoll at ntoll.org (Nicholas H.Tollervey) Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2018 15:48:52 +0100 Subject: [Edu-sig] Editors/IDEs for teaching In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1180cbb5-e461-84a6-f634-c0c5e288914e@ntoll.org> On 03/07/18 15:27, Andre Roberge wrote: > * Mu (https://codewith.mu/). Primarily intended for young learners and > hobbyists. Nope. I'm the author of Mu. It's for beginner programmers of all levels (as it says so on the website). Beginner programmer is a "stage" not an age. ;-) The design reflects feedback given to the Raspberry Pi Foundation's education team, extensive UX and feedback from both beginner programmers and teachers. Thanks, N. From andre.roberge at gmail.com Tue Jul 3 11:04:29 2018 From: andre.roberge at gmail.com (Andre Roberge) Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2018 12:04:29 -0300 Subject: [Edu-sig] Editors/IDEs for teaching In-Reply-To: <1180cbb5-e461-84a6-f634-c0c5e288914e@ntoll.org> References: <1180cbb5-e461-84a6-f634-c0c5e288914e@ntoll.org> Message-ID: On Tue, Jul 3, 2018 at 11:52 AM Nicholas H.Tollervey wrote: > On 03/07/18 15:27, Andre Roberge wrote: > > * Mu (https://codewith.mu/). Primarily intended for young learners and > > hobbyists. > > Nope. > > ?Thanks!? > I'm the author of Mu. It's for beginner programmers of all levels (as it > says so on the website). Beginner programmer is a "stage" not an age. ;-) > ?I do agree with what you write ... but, at the same time, I've been struggling to define appropriate categories. Some software can be designed for use by (young) adult beginners but not for young children. (For example: anything that will rely heavily on word menus ... say, like Microsoft Word.) I'm using the term hobbyists for this category. Other software can be designed to be used by young children. I did not see Mu being designed to be used in a CS 101 type of course. Perhaps I am wrong and should simply think of the target audience as "everyone" like I did for IDLE.... ? Andr? > > The design reflects feedback given to the Raspberry Pi Foundation's > education team, extensive UX and feedback from both beginner programmers > and teachers. > > ? > Thanks, > > N. > _______________________________________________ > Edu-sig mailing list > Edu-sig at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/edu-sig > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ntoll at ntoll.org Tue Jul 3 11:11:04 2018 From: ntoll at ntoll.org (Nicholas H.Tollervey) Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2018 16:11:04 +0100 Subject: [Edu-sig] Editors/IDEs for teaching In-Reply-To: References: <1180cbb5-e461-84a6-f634-c0c5e288914e@ntoll.org> Message-ID: On 03/07/18 16:04, Andre Roberge wrote: > > ? I do agree with what you write ... but, at the same time, I've been > struggling to define appropriate categories. Some software can be > designed for use by (young) adult beginners but not for young children. > (For example: anything that will rely heavily on word menus ... say, > like Microsoft Word.) I'm using the term hobbyists for this category. > Other software can be designed to be used by young children.? I did not > see Mu being designed to be used in a CS 101 type of course.? Perhaps I > am wrong and should simply think of the target audience as "everyone" > like I did for IDLE.... ? Got it in one! :-) Mu is for *anyone* who is a beginner programmer, no matter their age or background. Mu is a *very small* code base (currently around 3.5kloc). However, the installers for Windows and OSX weigh in at around 100mb. Why? Because Mu bundles Python 3, Qt, Tkinter, Matplotlib, Numpy, Jupyter, PyGame, PyGameZero and a host of other things commonly used by those starting computing classes. Why include all this stuff? Because (and I remember this from my university days) just being able to set up a dev environment on your own computer is a royal pain in the arse -- especially if you're a newbie. ;-) If the answer is "just install Mu, 'cos it's easy" then beginner data scientists immediately have a "first steps" IDE they can use to skill-up before they go figure out how to "pip install jupyter" and point their browser to the right place. ;-) Does this make sense? N. From carl at nextdayvideo.com Tue Jul 3 11:29:12 2018 From: carl at nextdayvideo.com (Carl Karsten) Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2018 10:29:12 -0500 Subject: [Edu-sig] Editors/IDEs for teaching In-Reply-To: References: <1180cbb5-e461-84a6-f634-c0c5e288914e@ntoll.org> Message-ID: > Mu bundles Python 3... I did not know that, and now I love it even more. Thank you!!! I do "intro to Python" workshops, and I *hate* the "setup environment" step; it chews up so much limited precious time. I've used mu for about 30 min about a month ago when I attended a 1 hour conference session: By Kattni Rembor CircuitPython is Python that runs on microcontrollers... Let me start a new thread about it happening again at PyOhio. back to mu - Yes, it is now my pick for editor to install and use. On Tue, Jul 3, 2018 at 10:11 AM, Nicholas H.Tollervey wrote: > On 03/07/18 16:04, Andre Roberge wrote: >> >> >> I do agree with what you write ... but, at the same time, I've been >> struggling to define appropriate categories. Some software can be designed >> for use by (young) adult beginners but not for young children. (For example: >> anything that will rely heavily on word menus ... say, like Microsoft Word.) >> I'm using the term hobbyists for this category. Other software can be >> designed to be used by young children. I did not see Mu being designed to >> be used in a CS 101 type of course. Perhaps I am wrong and should simply >> think of the target audience as "everyone" like I did for IDLE.... ? > > > Got it in one! :-) > > Mu is for *anyone* who is a beginner programmer, no matter their age or > background. > > Mu is a *very small* code base (currently around 3.5kloc). However, the > installers for Windows and OSX weigh in at around 100mb. Why? Because Mu > bundles Python 3, Qt, Tkinter, Matplotlib, Numpy, Jupyter, PyGame, > PyGameZero and a host of other things commonly used by those starting > computing classes. > > Why include all this stuff? Because (and I remember this from my university > days) just being able to set up a dev environment on your own computer is a > royal pain in the arse -- especially if you're a newbie. ;-) If the answer > is "just install Mu, 'cos it's easy" then beginner data scientists > immediately have a "first steps" IDE they can use to skill-up before they go > figure out how to "pip install jupyter" and point their browser to the right > place. ;-) > > Does this make sense? > > > N. > _______________________________________________ > Edu-sig mailing list > Edu-sig at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/edu-sig From andre.roberge at gmail.com Tue Jul 3 11:30:16 2018 From: andre.roberge at gmail.com (Andre Roberge) Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2018 12:30:16 -0300 Subject: [Edu-sig] Editors/IDEs for teaching In-Reply-To: References: <1180cbb5-e461-84a6-f634-c0c5e288914e@ntoll.org> Message-ID: On Tue, Jul 3, 2018 at 12:11 PM Nicholas H.Tollervey wrote: > On 03/07/18 16:04, Andre Roberge wrote: > > > > ? I do agree with what you write ... but, at the same time, I've been > > struggling to define appropriate categories. Some software can be > > designed for use by (young) adult beginners but not for young children. > > (For example: anything that will rely heavily on word menus ... say, > > like Microsoft Word.) I'm using the term hobbyists for this category. > > Other software can be designed to be used by young children. I did not > > see Mu being designed to be used in a CS 101 type of course. Perhaps I > > am wrong and should simply think of the target audience as "everyone" > > like I did for IDLE.... ? > > Got it in one! :-) > > Mu is for *anyone* who is a beginner programmer, no matter their age or > background. > > Mu is a *very small* code base (currently around 3.5kloc). However, the > installers for Windows and OSX weigh in at around 100mb. Why? Because Mu > bundles Python 3, Qt, Tkinter, Matplotlib, Numpy, Jupyter, PyGame, > PyGameZero and a host of other things commonly used by those starting > computing classes. > > Why include all this stuff? Because (and I remember this from my > university days) just being able to set up a dev environment on your own > computer is a royal pain in the arse -- especially if you're a newbie. > ;-) If the answer is "just install Mu, 'cos it's easy" then beginner > data scientists immediately have a "first steps" IDE they can use to > skill-up before they go figure out how to "pip install jupyter" and > point their browser to the right place. ;-) > > Does this make sense? > ?Yes, it does. I did install Mu just a few days ago to have a look and this is one thing that struck me as being extremely positive, as it solves so many problems faced by beginners. I am truly, truly impressed by it. I cringe when I see people on the learnpython subreddit reply to people that are clearly absolute beginners that they should use PyCharm.? (I do not bother replying anymore as the PyCharm fans crowd wrongly believe that their choice is the only suitable one). My only question about suitability for CS 101 type of audience is that will it be perceived (by those "serious" CS students) more as a toy, given its friendly interface, than a "professional" tool suitable for them - such as Wing 101, or PyCharm Edu. (Don't take me wrong: I really think it would be very suitable - I'm just wondering about the students' impression.) Andr? > > N. > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ntoll at ntoll.org Tue Jul 3 11:30:52 2018 From: ntoll at ntoll.org (Nicholas H.Tollervey) Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2018 16:30:52 +0100 Subject: [Edu-sig] Editors/IDEs for teaching In-Reply-To: References: <1180cbb5-e461-84a6-f634-c0c5e288914e@ntoll.org> Message-ID: <1bc6f913-f9aa-ec84-f17f-685b94e8176b@ntoll.org> Thank you for your kind words! :-) Mu 1.0.final should be out in about a fortnight. N. On 03/07/18 16:29, Carl Karsten wrote: >> Mu bundles Python 3... > > I did not know that, and now I love it even more. > > Thank you!!! > > I do "intro to Python" workshops, and I *hate* the "setup environment" > step; it chews up so much limited precious time. > > I've used mu for about 30 min about a month ago when I attended a 1 > hour conference session: > By Kattni Rembor > CircuitPython is Python that runs on microcontrollers... > > Let me start a new thread about it happening again at PyOhio. > > back to mu - Yes, it is now my pick for editor to install and use. > > > > On Tue, Jul 3, 2018 at 10:11 AM, Nicholas H.Tollervey wrote: >> On 03/07/18 16:04, Andre Roberge wrote: >>> >>> >>> I do agree with what you write ... but, at the same time, I've been >>> struggling to define appropriate categories. Some software can be designed >>> for use by (young) adult beginners but not for young children. (For example: >>> anything that will rely heavily on word menus ... say, like Microsoft Word.) >>> I'm using the term hobbyists for this category. Other software can be >>> designed to be used by young children. I did not see Mu being designed to >>> be used in a CS 101 type of course. Perhaps I am wrong and should simply >>> think of the target audience as "everyone" like I did for IDLE.... ? >> >> >> Got it in one! :-) >> >> Mu is for *anyone* who is a beginner programmer, no matter their age or >> background. >> >> Mu is a *very small* code base (currently around 3.5kloc). However, the >> installers for Windows and OSX weigh in at around 100mb. Why? Because Mu >> bundles Python 3, Qt, Tkinter, Matplotlib, Numpy, Jupyter, PyGame, >> PyGameZero and a host of other things commonly used by those starting >> computing classes. >> >> Why include all this stuff? Because (and I remember this from my university >> days) just being able to set up a dev environment on your own computer is a >> royal pain in the arse -- especially if you're a newbie. ;-) If the answer >> is "just install Mu, 'cos it's easy" then beginner data scientists >> immediately have a "first steps" IDE they can use to skill-up before they go >> figure out how to "pip install jupyter" and point their browser to the right >> place. ;-) >> >> Does this make sense? >> >> >> N. >> _______________________________________________ >> Edu-sig mailing list >> Edu-sig at python.org >> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/edu-sig From ntoll at ntoll.org Tue Jul 3 11:35:55 2018 From: ntoll at ntoll.org (Nicholas H.Tollervey) Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2018 16:35:55 +0100 Subject: [Edu-sig] Editors/IDEs for teaching In-Reply-To: References: <1180cbb5-e461-84a6-f634-c0c5e288914e@ntoll.org> Message-ID: <5037d59c-fe3f-4c42-d779-a98f9ef29ded@ntoll.org> On 03/07/18 16:30, Andre Roberge wrote: > My only question about suitability for CS 101 type of audience is that > will it be perceived (by those "serious" CS students) more as a toy, > given its friendly interface, than a "professional" tool suitable for > them - such as Wing 101, or PyCharm Edu.? ? ?(Don't take me wrong: I > really think it would be very suitable - I'm just wondering about the > students' impression.) This is a really *great* point, but it comes with an answer! If you have enough knowledge to ask "Why doesn't Mu do X?" then you shouldn't be using Mu. ;-) It's time to graduate to a "professional" editor. Mu concentrates very hard on making that gap between sitting still and walking (in code terms) as easy to navigate as possible. It's the editor equivalent of toddling. ;-) So, for those CS101 students who already know Emacs, Atom or whatever, then Mu is definitely *not* for them, they should use what they're comfortable using. If you're interested I talk about this in my presentation from PyCon 2018: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T5IAf5vGGSk Happy to answer any questions, and as always feedback is most welcome. N. From carl at nextdayvideo.com Tue Jul 3 11:46:03 2018 From: carl at nextdayvideo.com (Carl Karsten) Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2018 10:46:03 -0500 Subject: [Edu-sig] CircuitPython+CPX = minimal setup to lean Python Message-ID: As education enthusiasts, I highly recommend attending (or watching the video, I am going to give it extra attention) https://www.pyohio.org/2018/schedule/presentation/39/ Sunday 12:45 p.m.?2:45 p.m. in Suzanne Scharer """ CircuitPython is Python that runs on microcontrollers. It's designed for learning and it's super simple to use. If you're new to programming or electronics, CircuitPython can help you get started with both. All you need to do is plug in a microcontroller board, open any code editor, and start editing. ... """ I attended a 1 hour version of this about a month ago. I was blown away by how fast you can get to "ok, lets run python code that makes lights blink" I now keep a device/cable with me and have had random people plug it into their mac/win/linux laptop, the lights start blinking (because it runs some python code on boot) and with a few clicks they can see/edit the code that is running. Make some changes, hit save, the device reboots and runs the changed code. There are 100 more things I can say about the sensors and mu and graphs and how much fun and engaging it is, but that will distract from how quick we go from nothing to editing and running python code. On Tue, Jul 3, 2018 at 10:04 AM, Andre Roberge wrote: > > > On Tue, Jul 3, 2018 at 11:52 AM Nicholas H.Tollervey > wrote: >> >> On 03/07/18 15:27, Andre Roberge wrote: >> > * Mu (https://codewith.mu/). Primarily intended for young learners and >> > hobbyists. >> >> Nope. >> > Thanks! > > >> >> I'm the author of Mu. It's for beginner programmers of all levels (as it >> says so on the website). Beginner programmer is a "stage" not an age. ;-) > > > > I do agree with what you write ... but, at the same time, I've been > struggling to define appropriate categories. Some software can be designed > for use by (young) adult beginners but not for young children. (For example: > anything that will rely heavily on word menus ... say, like Microsoft Word.) > I'm using the term hobbyists for this category. Other software can be > designed to be used by young children. I did not see Mu being designed to > be used in a CS 101 type of course. Perhaps I am wrong and should simply > think of the target audience as "everyone" like I did for IDLE.... ? > > > > Andr? >> >> >> The design reflects feedback given to the Raspberry Pi Foundation's >> education team, extensive UX and feedback from both beginner programmers >> and teachers. >> > >> >> Thanks, >> >> N. >> _______________________________________________ >> Edu-sig mailing list >> Edu-sig at python.org >> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/edu-sig > > > _______________________________________________ > Edu-sig mailing list > Edu-sig at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/edu-sig > From aivar.annamaa at ut.ee Tue Jul 3 14:26:33 2018 From: aivar.annamaa at ut.ee (Aivar Annamaa) Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2018 21:26:33 +0300 Subject: [Edu-sig] Editors/IDEs for teaching In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1da72131-de83-2a5b-d0ca-0bf02b721c62@ut.ee> Hi! I am author of Thonny. My initial target group was my students in our university's first programming course (CS 101 according to your taxonomy). I wanted an easy way to show them the exact meaning of main programming concepts. Thonny was later successfully used in several MOOC-s (both adults and high school pupils, probably same level as your CS 100) and also with high school students in an after school program (young learners). According to web forums it looks like independent learners also use it, but I don't have much feedback from this group. Like Nicholas, I don't intend to copy every feature from professional IDE-s. I do intend to add some new features for beginners, for example error explanation service (instructions for fixing common syntax errors, interpretations of NameErrors etc, reminders about putting str or int in correct places etc). Please add your opinions about which errors should it target: https://bitbucket.org/plas/thonny/issues/458/offer-explanations-for-common-errors BTW, Thonny also comes with Python built-in and it has plug-ins for MicroPython support (https://bitbucket.org/plas/thonny-micropython). best regards, Aivar On 3.07.2018 17:27, Andre Roberge wrote: > Hi everyone, > > I'm compiling a list of available editors for Python designed > specifically for teaching, with information about the primary targeted > audiences and would welcome your comments and/or suggestions for > additions or corrections. So far, I have > > Target audience (my own draft definition; feel free to improve upon this): > > * young learners? (elementary and high school students) > > * hobbyists - beginners of all ages learning on their own > > * CS 100 course: elective course targeted at non CS (or even non STEM) > students. The focus is more on concepts, using Python as the practical > tool to learn these concepts, rather than learning the Pythonic idioms > or learning the effectiveness of various algorithms. For example, list > comprehensions would likely not be covered in such a course as it does > not add anything conceptually to an explicit for loop. > > * CS 101 course: core course in CS meant as a requirement for future > courses. Some pythonic idioms and details about algorithms would > likely be covered. > > Editors / IDEs : > > * IDLE: included with Python. Intended for everyone. > * Mu (https://codewith.mu/). Primarily intended for young learners and > hobbyists. > * Thonny. (http://thonny.org/) I am guessing that it is primarily > intended for CS 101. > * Wing 101 (https://wingware.com/downloads/wingide-101) Primarily > intended for CS 101. > * PyCharm Edu (https://www.jetbrains.com/pycharm-edu/) Primarily > intended for CS 101. > > I am not looking for web-based solutions [otherwise, I would have had > included Reeborg's World ;-)] and do not want to include obsolete or > no longer maintained software (like rur-ple, the precursor to > Reeborg's World.) > > Best, > > Andr? > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Edu-sig mailing list > Edu-sig at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/edu-sig -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kirby.urner at gmail.com Tue Jul 3 14:59:24 2018 From: kirby.urner at gmail.com (kirby urner) Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2018 11:59:24 -0700 Subject: [Edu-sig] Editors/IDEs for teaching In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I use Spyder in my adult beginner Python classes. I like the integrated REPL (not just a window to Terminal) and the I-Python console. Also, I'm a fan of the Anaconda distro of Python which makes it easy to jump into Jupyter Notebooks, an introductory topic in my courses. Given Jupyter grew out of I-Python, there's a lot of commonalities and integration, especially around %magic commands. Spyder is comparable to Wing 101 in its capabilities. Kirby Editors / IDEs : > > * IDLE: included with Python. Intended for everyone. > * Mu (https://codewith.mu/). Primarily intended for young learners and > hobbyists. > * Thonny. (http://thonny.org/) I am guessing that it is primarily > intended for CS 101. > * Wing 101 (https://wingware.com/downloads/wingide-101) Primarily > intended for CS 101. > * PyCharm Edu (https://www.jetbrains.com/pycharm-edu/) Primarily intended > for CS 101. > > I am not looking for web-based solutions [otherwise, I would have had > included Reeborg's World ;-)] and do not want to include obsolete or no > longer maintained software (like rur-ple, the precursor to Reeborg's World.) > > Best, > > Andr? > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From andre.roberge at gmail.com Tue Jul 3 15:45:05 2018 From: andre.roberge at gmail.com (Andre Roberge) Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2018 16:45:05 -0300 Subject: [Edu-sig] Editors/IDEs for teaching In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, Jul 3, 2018 at 3:59 PM kirby urner wrote: > > I use Spyder in my adult beginner Python classes. I like the integrated > REPL (not just a window to Terminal) and the I-Python console. > ?Looking at some old emails, about 3 years ago I had concluded that Spyder would have been my first choice too, because of what you mentioned. I also liked the integrated help. However, I would not describe it as an editor (or IDE) whose primary purpose was for teaching, but rather designed with data scientists in mind. I think it might be a good choice for CS 101 students (to use the terminology I used previously) or for a motivated teacher who can be physically present to help students with it. ? > > Also, I'm a fan of the Anaconda distro of Python which makes it easy to > jump into Jupyter Notebooks, an introductory topic in my courses. > ?I also like Jupyter Notebooks, but I see them more as a tool for producing teaching (or research) material, than for a platform for students to learn Python. I consider the ability to save a program as a .py file something essential in an editor for students. The last time I wanted to do a major update to my Anaconda distro on Windows, I was shocked to learn that the recommended way was not going to work (I believe it was due to the way that Anaconda was stuffing too much stuff on the PATH environment variable which made it not possible to do an upgrade to include a newer Python version). I may have got the details wrong, but I do remember being severely disappointed by the way it worked - as I had gotten really fond of its super-battery included philosophy which made it so much easier to install some packages on Windows... = = = Looking back at my old notes, I see that Ninja IDE (http://ninja-ide.org/) was also recommended by some people. I have much to think about ... Andr? ? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kirby.urner at gmail.com Tue Jul 3 17:02:04 2018 From: kirby.urner at gmail.com (kirby urner) Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2018 14:02:04 -0700 Subject: [Edu-sig] Editors/IDEs for teaching In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, Jul 3, 2018 at 12:45 PM, Andre Roberge wrote: > > > On Tue, Jul 3, 2018 at 3:59 PM kirby urner wrote: > >> >> I use Spyder in my adult beginner Python classes. I like the integrated >> REPL (not just a window to Terminal) and the I-Python console. >> > > > ?Looking at some old emails, about 3 years ago I had concluded that Spyder > would have been my first choice too, because of what you mentioned. I also > liked the integrated help. However, I would not describe it as an editor > (or IDE) whose primary purpose was for teaching, but rather designed with > data scientists in mind. I think it might be a good choice for CS 101 > students (to use the terminology I used previously) or for a motivated > teacher who can be physically present to help students with it. > ? > ?Yes I agree that Spyder is not primarily for teaching. In making the job of coding easier, I good IDE inevitably serves a teaching function. I teach Python in two ways: BYOD (students have their own computers) and spin up a desktop in the cloud somewhere. The Anaconda distro suggests itself for BYOD because of its support of grabbing additional packages as well as integrating lots of tools. In the spin up a desktop courses, I've used Eclipse (O'Reilly School) and more recently Wing (ONLC). What I tell all my students is choice of IDE can be personal, a matter of taste, and they my want to jump around. I mention a bunch of them and demonstrate at least a couple near the start of my course, but then settle into using one most of all. That's been Spyder for the last few years. I'm enjoying Atom these days. I'm planning on sharing it tonight in fact (a 7th meetup of 10 for SAISOFT). What I like about Spyder is it's no cost and continues to improve. I like being able to clear the REPL at any time, also to %reset (wipe memory). In terms of students watching my screen in real time, I've become most comfortable with Spyder, but who knows if this will change. I have the programming window and REPL side-by-side vertically. I've got some Youtubes about it. E.g.: https://youtu.be/yK0LrfQFdQY (10 minute video about going from Codesters to Spyder, doesn't get to Spyder until around 3:52). I do not think my content, style, choice of tools, is in any sense "best" as circumstances and client needs vary, not to mention instructor capabilities. ? > >> Also, I'm a fan of the Anaconda distro of Python which makes it easy to >> jump into Jupyter Notebooks, an introductory topic in my courses. >> > > ?I also like Jupyter Notebooks, but I see them more as a tool for > producing teaching (or research) material, than for a platform for students > to learn Python. I consider the ability to save a program as a .py file > something essential in an editor for students. > ?Yes, many ways to slice through the material. I just finished a summer camp in a computer lab where my primary objective was to walk them through cloning a git repo on a mac (git already installed) and then experimenting with Markdown in the Jupyter Notebooks they found therein. Add some pictures from Flickr. Add a few links. I did draw their attention to the Python code cells and encouraged them to experiment by making changes to existing code. One of the campers tried to get a Wolfram Alpha API working through his Notebook however that required dependencies we didn't have permission to install apparently. These desktops were provided by the college hosting the summer camp (Reed in Portland). I talked them into putting Anaconda on. FYI, the repo in question: https://github.com/4dsolutions/MartianMath These were middle schoolers, about 15. I had an assistant instructor but he was mostly involved with C6XTY projects (unplugged). ? > > The last time I wanted to do a major update to my Anaconda distro on > Windows, I was shocked to learn that the recommended way was not going to > work (I believe it was due to the way that Anaconda was stuffing too much > stuff on the PATH environment variable which made it not possible to do an > upgrade to include a newer Python version). I may have got the details > wrong, but I do remember being severely disappointed by the way it worked - > as I had gotten really fond of its super-battery included philosophy which > made it so much easier to install some packages on Windows... > > ?Anaconda is a moving target and the experience on Windows / Mac / Linux varies some. Still, it's a viable alternative to the canonical Python.org distro. Jupyter Notebooks represents a kind of "literate programming" (Knuth) where what you're showing with code may indeed not so much be about teaching the language itself. We're more surveying the contemporary workplace, looking at tools that might already be used, or might be soon introduced. In this summer school use case, we were looking at spatial geometry as a primary topic, and were learning a cross-section of skills that would not really characterize a contemporary computer science or computer programming class, even through Anaconda was on every desktop. Most my Python teaching is more conventional in terms of content, not so alien. With kids I've been using Codesters, which compiles Python to Javascript in the browser (doesn't fit the bill regarding IDEs we've mentioned). However must my work is with adults (I focus on andragogy more than pedagogy). What I find useful as a teacher is to keep tackling related challenges at which I'm definitely a beginner. For instance, I've been studying the language Rust quite a bit (recent Pycons have mentioned it, plus I'm about to go to OSCON). Kirby ? > = = = > > Looking back at my old notes, I see that Ninja IDE (http://ninja-ide.org/) > was also recommended by some people. > > I have much to think about ... > > Andr? > > ? > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wes.turner at gmail.com Tue Jul 3 18:29:13 2018 From: wes.turner at gmail.com (Wes Turner) Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2018 18:29:13 -0400 Subject: [Edu-sig] Editors/IDEs for teaching In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Spyder has code cell support for evaluating a delimited block of code at a time: ```python #%% cell 1 print(1) # In[0]: (cell 2) print(2) ``` - Ctrl-Return -- Run cell - Shift-Return -- Run cell and advance $ conda install -y spyder You can export Jupyter notebooks to .py files with the second form of cell delimiters with: $ jupyter convert --to python ... https://github.com/quobit/awesome-python-in-education/blob/master/README.md#ides lists a bunch of IDEs, but not with such a useful table of structured criteria. (I'm partial to vim & python-mode; which aren't at all beginner friendly) On Tuesday, July 3, 2018, kirby urner wrote: > > > On Tue, Jul 3, 2018 at 12:45 PM, Andre Roberge > wrote: > >> >> >> On Tue, Jul 3, 2018 at 3:59 PM kirby urner wrote: >> >>> >>> I use Spyder in my adult beginner Python classes. I like the integrated >>> REPL (not just a window to Terminal) and the I-Python console. >>> >> >> >> ?Looking at some old emails, about 3 years ago I had concluded that >> Spyder would have been my first choice too, because of what you mentioned. >> I also liked the integrated help. However, I would not describe it as an >> editor (or IDE) whose primary purpose was for teaching, but rather designed >> with data scientists in mind. I think it might be a good choice for CS 101 >> students (to use the terminology I used previously) or for a motivated >> teacher who can be physically present to help students with it. >> ? >> > > ?Yes I agree that Spyder is not primarily for teaching. In making the job > of coding easier, I good IDE inevitably serves a teaching function. > > I teach Python in two ways: BYOD (students have their own computers) and > spin up a desktop in the cloud somewhere. > > The Anaconda distro suggests itself for BYOD because of its support of > grabbing additional packages as well as integrating lots of tools. > > In the spin up a desktop courses, I've used Eclipse (O'Reilly School) and > more recently Wing (ONLC). > > What I tell all my students is choice of IDE can be personal, a matter of > taste, and they my want to jump around. I mention a bunch of them and > demonstrate at least a couple near the start of my course, but then settle > into using one most of all. That's been Spyder for the last few years. > > I'm enjoying Atom these days. I'm planning on sharing it tonight in fact > (a 7th meetup of 10 for SAISOFT). > > What I like about Spyder is it's no cost and continues to improve. I like > being able to clear the REPL at any time, also to %reset (wipe memory). In > terms of students watching my screen in real time, I've become most > comfortable with Spyder, but who knows if this will change. > > I have the programming window and REPL side-by-side vertically. I've got > some Youtubes about it. E.g.: > > https://youtu.be/yK0LrfQFdQY > > (10 minute video about going from Codesters to Spyder, doesn't get to > Spyder until around 3:52). > > I do not think my content, style, choice of tools, is in any sense "best" > as circumstances and client needs vary, not to mention instructor > capabilities. > > ? > >> >>> Also, I'm a fan of the Anaconda distro of Python which makes it easy to >>> jump into Jupyter Notebooks, an introductory topic in my courses. >>> >> >> ?I also like Jupyter Notebooks, but I see them more as a tool for >> producing teaching (or research) material, than for a platform for students >> to learn Python. I consider the ability to save a program as a .py file >> something essential in an editor for students. >> > > ?Yes, many ways to slice through the material. I just finished a summer > camp in a computer lab where my primary objective was to walk them through > cloning a git repo on a mac (git already installed) and then experimenting > with Markdown in the Jupyter Notebooks they found therein. Add some > pictures from Flickr. Add a few links. > > I did draw their attention to the Python code cells and encouraged them to > experiment by making changes to existing code. One of the campers tried to > get a Wolfram Alpha API working through his Notebook however that required > dependencies we didn't have permission to install apparently. These > desktops were provided by the college hosting the summer camp (Reed in > Portland). I talked them into putting Anaconda on. > > FYI, the repo in question: > https://github.com/4dsolutions/MartianMath > > These were middle schoolers, about 15. I had an assistant instructor but > he was mostly involved with C6XTY projects (unplugged). > ? > >> >> The last time I wanted to do a major update to my Anaconda distro on >> Windows, I was shocked to learn that the recommended way was not going to >> work (I believe it was due to the way that Anaconda was stuffing too much >> stuff on the PATH environment variable which made it not possible to do an >> upgrade to include a newer Python version). I may have got the details >> wrong, but I do remember being severely disappointed by the way it worked - >> as I had gotten really fond of its super-battery included philosophy which >> made it so much easier to install some packages on Windows... >> >> > ?Anaconda is a moving target and the experience on Windows / Mac / Linux > varies some. Still, it's a viable alternative to the canonical Python.org > distro. > > Jupyter Notebooks represents a kind of "literate programming" (Knuth) > where what you're showing with code may indeed not so much be about > teaching the language itself. We're more surveying the contemporary > workplace, looking at tools that might already be used, or might be soon > introduced. > > In this summer school use case, we were looking at spatial geometry as a > primary topic, and were learning a cross-section of skills that would not > really characterize a contemporary computer science or computer programming > class, even through Anaconda was on every desktop. > > Most my Python teaching is more conventional in terms of content, not so > alien. With kids I've been using Codesters, which compiles Python to > Javascript in the browser (doesn't fit the bill regarding IDEs we've > mentioned). However must my work is with adults (I focus on andragogy more > than pedagogy). > > What I find useful as a teacher is to keep tackling related challenges at > which I'm definitely a beginner. For instance, I've been studying the > language Rust quite a bit (recent Pycons have mentioned it, plus I'm about > to go to OSCON). > > Kirby > ? > >> = = = >> >> Looking back at my old notes, I see that Ninja IDE (http://ninja-ide.org/) >> was also recommended by some people. >> >> I have much to think about ... >> >> Andr? >> >> ? >> > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kirby.urner at gmail.com Wed Jul 4 02:25:06 2018 From: kirby.urner at gmail.com (kirby urner) Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2018 23:25:06 -0700 Subject: [Edu-sig] Editors/IDEs for teaching In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > > https://github.com/quobit/awesome-python-in-education/ > blob/master/README.md#ides > lists a bunch of IDEs, but not with such a useful table of structured > criteria. > > ?Great listing of resources! Yes, I like using the #%% feature to bracket sections of a script, used that tonight. I failed to find much time for Atom, maybe next time. I've found myself back in Atom recently because I'm learning Rust, at least to a "getting my feet wet" level. Atom has the needed color coding. Which reminds me of an important distinction between IDEs: Those that focus on one language versus IDEs suitable for polyglots (the above listing has some of each). Sometimes the best intro courses hop around among languages, highlighting sameness and differences. I enjoyed a great one at Princeton like that, which had us coding in PL/1, FORTRAN, APL, SNOBOL, an Assembly and I'm forgetting what else. That was in the 1970s (!) so of course the lineup would have changed immensely. Python front burner, maybe look at two others back burner? More like Harvard's CS50. https://youtu.be/n_8zxTH7SvA Sometimes even if just looking at Python, one might go with at least two IDEs as a minimum, perhaps one dedicated to Python, one more general purpose. Kirby -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From renesd at gmail.com Tue Jul 3 12:13:36 2018 From: renesd at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?Q?Ren=C3=A9_Dudfield?=) Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2018 18:13:36 +0200 Subject: [Edu-sig] Editors/IDEs for teaching In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Debian/unix: because comparative learning, depth, and libre software is also important. Jupyter: because science. Notepad/vim/nano: because they are there. No editor/ipython: because python has a repl. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From by.wanjun at gmail.com Tue Jul 3 13:10:11 2018 From: by.wanjun at gmail.com (Wanjun Zhang) Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2018 10:10:11 -0700 Subject: [Edu-sig] Editors/IDEs for teaching In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi, We recently had to pick a beginner-friendly python editor for our Invent to Learn summer program. We also teach a lot of Raspberry Pi based Intro to Python workshops for kids and adults alike. In addition to editor/IDE, there?s another category to consider - specialized education platform - For instance, EarSketch is a programming environment made specifically to teach coding through sound mixing. Over the years we tried Trinket.io, PyCharm Edu, Visual Studio Code, Mu, iPythonNotebooks, Earsketch, Processing in Python mode, Thonny, IDLE + some I don?t remember. For us, it?s about prioritizing specific goals for our students and our program. For the summer program we are working with FabLab Houston to equip students with both maker skills and programming skills. They will learn Python with the Raspberry Pi with first the Minecraft Pi api, then sensor stuffs with Circuit Python on Adafruit?s Circuit Playground Learning Express, then Processing in Python mode to visualize some data with neopixels. For Fab Lab our goal is also to 1. train FabLab staff members with enough programming skills so they can deliver the Invent to Learn program without us, 2. produce open source curriculum from this program for other makerspaces. Ultimately, I think it should be up to the specific teacher to pick out features - as programmers we tend to look at specs and numbers, but we must also prioritize setting up educators for success - they are the frontline workers delivering the service. For instance, trinket.io is our go-to because a lot of educator?s don?t have admin access to their computers, so web-based editor that is easy to use and specifically made for education is great. However we do recognize the value in exposing our students to tools that developers use - like PyCharm. This is our pro and cons list off of the top of my head for choosing an editor for different partners and educators that we work with: - *Platform* - can we do things in command line on the computer that is available to us, whether that?s a raspberry pi, mac, or pc? Trinket.io is a great web-based solution if that?s an issue. - Existing *resources and community* - are there educator resources? Is this random IDE made by one person as a marketing exercise? if open source, when is the projects' last pull request? The Thonny Editor is awesome because there are a lot of high quality curriculum from https://projects.raspberrypi.org/ Same goes for Trinket.io. - Learning Curve for *educator *- If a teacher is teaching this and not a developer, are they able to successfully use this tool? Do we expect them to learn to use the terminal? Again, Trinket.io is a great starting point. - Learning Curve for *student *- Does the IDE/Editor have too many options? Not enough? What is the cognitive load for the student. *- Utility for student* - Do we want to provide a real world developer experience for our students? Or is our goal to have them build something as to inspire. Is this a long term program or a short term project? Do we want learners to quickly go through turtles (trinket.io) or be exposed to developer tools (pycharm)? After much consideration, we chose Thonny and also Python mode in the Processing IDE for our three week program. Hope this helps. Best, Wanjun Zhang codeparkhouston.org On July 3, 2018 at 10:06:00 AM, edu-sig-request at python.org ( edu-sig-request at python.org) wrote: Send Edu-sig mailing list submissions to edu-sig at python.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/edu-sig or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to edu-sig-request at python.org You can reach the person managing the list at edu-sig-owner at python.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Edu-sig digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: turtle coordinates: Y increase downards - as in most graphics API? (kirby urner) 2. Editors/IDEs for teaching (Andre Roberge) 3. Re: Editors/IDEs for teaching (Nicholas H.Tollervey) 4. Re: Editors/IDEs for teaching (Andre Roberge) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2018 09:32:44 -0700 From: kirby urner To: "edu-sig at python.org" Subject: Re: [Edu-sig] turtle coordinates: Y increase downards - as in most graphics API? Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Thanks for your persistence on this Andre. I agree with you that this is a serious bug. Curriculum writers down the road will steer clear of Python's turtle if it's not up to responding sanely to left and right. Our loyalty should be to teachers and teaching material developers in the future, not as much to prior editions with unfortunate workarounds. Kirby On Wed, Jun 27, 2018 at 6:29 PM, Andre Roberge wrote: > > > On Mon, Jun 18, 2018 at 1:50 PM Jurgis Pralgauskis < > jurgis.pralgauskis at gmail.com> wrote: > >> Ok, I could test it :) >> >> >> Should I wait for some commit and comment results on the issues site or >> how...? >> > > ?Jurgis: Could you just apply the patch I submitted locally and test it? > > Or would anyone else volunteer to test it? Obviously, I can provide an > independent test of my own contribution. :-)? > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: < http://mail.python.org/pipermail/edu-sig/attachments/20180702/f4ad062f/attachment-0001.html> ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2018 11:27:05 -0300 From: Andre Roberge To: "edu-sig at python.org" Subject: [Edu-sig] Editors/IDEs for teaching Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Hi everyone, I'm compiling a list of available editors for Python designed specifically for teaching, with information about the primary targeted audiences and would welcome your comments and/or suggestions for additions or corrections. So far, I have Target audience (my own draft definition; feel free to improve upon this): * young learners (elementary and high school students) * hobbyists - beginners of all ages learning on their own * CS 100 course: elective course targeted at non CS (or even non STEM) students. The focus is more on concepts, using Python as the practical tool to learn these concepts, rather than learning the Pythonic idioms or learning the effectiveness of various algorithms. For example, list comprehensions would likely not be covered in such a course as it does not add anything conceptually to an explicit for loop. * CS 101 course: core course in CS meant as a requirement for future courses. Some pythonic idioms and details about algorithms would likely be covered. Editors / IDEs : * IDLE: included with Python. Intended for everyone. * Mu (https://codewith.mu/). Primarily intended for young learners and hobbyists. * Thonny. (http://thonny.org/) I am guessing that it is primarily intended for CS 101. * Wing 101 (https://wingware.com/downloads/wingide-101) Primarily intended for CS 101. * PyCharm Edu (https://www.jetbrains.com/pycharm-edu/) Primarily intended for CS 101. I am not looking for web-based solutions [otherwise, I would have had included Reeborg's World ;-)] and do not want to include obsolete or no longer maintained software (like rur-ple, the precursor to Reeborg's World.) Best, Andr? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: < http://mail.python.org/pipermail/edu-sig/attachments/20180703/ae43b88d/attachment-0001.html> ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2018 15:48:52 +0100 From: "Nicholas H.Tollervey" To: edu-sig at python.org Subject: Re: [Edu-sig] Editors/IDEs for teaching Message-ID: <1180cbb5-e461-84a6-f634-c0c5e288914e at ntoll.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed On 03/07/18 15:27, Andre Roberge wrote: > * Mu (https://codewith.mu/). Primarily intended for young learners and > hobbyists. Nope. I'm the author of Mu. It's for beginner programmers of all levels (as it says so on the website). Beginner programmer is a "stage" not an age. ;-) The design reflects feedback given to the Raspberry Pi Foundation's education team, extensive UX and feedback from both beginner programmers and teachers. Thanks, N. ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2018 12:04:29 -0300 From: Andre Roberge To: ntoll at ntoll.org Cc: "edu-sig at python.org" Subject: Re: [Edu-sig] Editors/IDEs for teaching Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" On Tue, Jul 3, 2018 at 11:52 AM Nicholas H.Tollervey wrote: > On 03/07/18 15:27, Andre Roberge wrote: > > * Mu (https://codewith.mu/). Primarily intended for young learners and > > hobbyists. > > Nope. > > ?Thanks!? > I'm the author of Mu. It's for beginner programmers of all levels (as it > says so on the website). Beginner programmer is a "stage" not an age. ;-) > ?I do agree with what you write ... but, at the same time, I've been struggling to define appropriate categories. Some software can be designed for use by (young) adult beginners but not for young children. (For example: anything that will rely heavily on word menus ... say, like Microsoft Word.) I'm using the term hobbyists for this category. Other software can be designed to be used by young children. I did not see Mu being designed to be used in a CS 101 type of course. Perhaps I am wrong and should simply think of the target audience as "everyone" like I did for IDLE.... ? Andr? > > The design reflects feedback given to the Raspberry Pi Foundation's > education team, extensive UX and feedback from both beginner programmers > and teachers. > > ? > Thanks, > > N. > _______________________________________________ > Edu-sig mailing list > Edu-sig at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/edu-sig > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: < http://mail.python.org/pipermail/edu-sig/attachments/20180703/0ef2a791/attachment.html> ------------------------------ Subject: Digest Footer _______________________________________________ Edu-sig mailing list Edu-sig at python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/edu-sig ------------------------------ End of Edu-sig Digest, Vol 179, Issue 1 *************************************** -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From andre.roberge at gmail.com Wed Jul 4 12:08:18 2018 From: andre.roberge at gmail.com (Andre Roberge) Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2018 13:08:18 -0300 Subject: [Edu-sig] Editors/IDEs for teaching In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, Jul 4, 2018 at 12:09 PM Wanjun Zhang wrote: > Hi, > > We recently had to pick a beginner-friendly python editor for our Invent > to Learn summer program. We also teach a lot of Raspberry Pi based Intro to > Python workshops for kids and adults alike. In addition to editor/IDE, > there?s another category to consider - specialized education platform - For > instance, EarSketch is a > programming environment made specifically to teach coding through sound > mixing. > > Over the years we tried Trinket.io, PyCharm Edu, Visual Studio Code, Mu, > iPythonNotebooks, Earsketch, Processing in Python mode, Thonny, IDLE + some > I don?t remember. > > For us, it?s about prioritizing specific goals for our students and our > program. For the summer program we are working with FabLab Houston to equip > students with both maker skills and programming skills. They will learn > Python with the Raspberry Pi with first the Minecraft Pi api, then sensor > stuffs with Circuit Python on Adafruit?s Circuit Playground Learning > Express, then Processing in Python mode to visualize some data with > neopixels. For Fab Lab our goal is also to 1. train FabLab staff members > with enough programming skills so they can deliver the Invent to Learn > program without us, 2. produce open source curriculum from this program for > other makerspaces. > > Ultimately, I think it should be up to the specific teacher to pick out > features - as programmers we tend to look at specs and numbers, but we must > also prioritize setting up educators for success - they are the frontline > workers delivering the service. For instance, trinket.io is our go-to > because a lot of educator?s don?t have admin access to their computers, so > web-based editor that is easy to use and specifically made for education is > great. However we do recognize the value in exposing our students to tools > that developers use - like PyCharm. > This is our pro and cons list off of the top of my head for choosing an > editor for different partners and educators that we work with: > > - *Platform* - can we do things in command line on the computer that is > available to us, whether that?s a raspberry pi, mac, or pc? Trinket.io is > a great web-based solution if that?s an issue. > > - Existing *resources and community* - are there educator resources? Is > this random IDE made by one person as a marketing exercise? if open source, > when is the projects' last pull request? The Thonny Editor is awesome > because there are a lot of high quality curriculum from > https://projects.raspberrypi.org/ Same goes for Trinket.io. > > - Learning Curve for *educator *- If a teacher is teaching this and not a > developer, are they able to successfully use this tool? Do we expect them > to learn to use the terminal? Again, Trinket.io is a great starting point. > > - Learning Curve for *student *- Does the IDE/Editor have too many > options? Not enough? What is the cognitive load for the student. > > *- Utility for student* - Do we want to provide a real world developer > experience for our students? Or is our goal to have them build something as > to inspire. Is this a long term program or a short term project? Do we want > learners to quickly go through turtles (trinket.io) or be exposed to > developer tools (pycharm)? > > After much consideration, we chose Thonny and also Python mode in the > Processing IDE for our three week program. > > Hope this helps. > ?Yes, it does help very much. I like your choice of Thonny + Processing. And your list of criterion is very good and may be useful to many people on this list. /Digression about trinket, and an alternative that I designed I know that a lot of people like trinket.io. However, it has some negative points in my opinion: 1. It uses an implementation of Python 2 - it is not compatible with Python 3. To me, this is almost inexcusable. 2. It is not a completely free, open source solution. As web based alternative to trinket, I suggest my own site: http://reeborg.ca/reeborg.html - which does support Python 3 and does not require users to log in. This has the downside that they cannot save their code on my site. However, it is possible to load code hosted elsewhere. For example, one could save some code on https://pastebin.com/ and load it from there. For graphics, Reeborg's World is based on using a Karel-like robot instead of a turtle mode ... BUT, one can (in principle) use turtle graphics on it -- I just haven't gotten around to incorporating the Brython turtle module into it. (It's on my list of things to do. I can bump it up in priority enough people are interested, willing to test it and provide feedback). While anyone can run arbitrary programs on it, it is designed to have tasks that can give feedback to students as to whether or not a given task has been accomplished. It also offers the *choice* of using an REPL or a block programming interface. Students can do live "pair programming" (with 2 or more people working on a same program from different computers) - or this can also be done by a teacher guiding a student at distance. (For this feature, it uses Mozilla's TogetherJS - which is not compatible with the block interface designed by Google.) One can step through the code, examine the content of variables at every stage, etc. Because it is open source, anyone can get a copy of it and run it on their own site. (Many teachers do this, as their students have limited access to the Internet.) There's more that I could mention including an online python tutorial which I wrote and which is available in 3 languages (with a 4th one in the works), an online texbook (written by someone else) that uses it, a printed book (published in France by another author) etc., but this should be enough motivation for anyone interested to have a look at it. /End of digression Andr? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From calcpage at aol.com Wed Jul 4 12:27:04 2018 From: calcpage at aol.com (A Jorge Garcia) Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2018 12:27:04 -0400 Subject: [Edu-sig] Editors/IDEs for teaching In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7b4c6249-fba4-4e6a-a45e-64cb0a4dc482@aol.com> I like Processing and c9.io for my Computer Science kids. We also used arduino studio with codrones. My math students and I use python a lot on sagecell.sagemath.org. HTH, AJG ?Sent from BlueMail ? On Jul 4, 2018, 12:16 PM, at 12:16 PM, Andre Roberge wrote: >On Wed, Jul 4, 2018 at 12:09 PM Wanjun Zhang >wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> We recently had to pick a beginner-friendly python editor for our >Invent >> to Learn summer program. We also teach a lot of Raspberry Pi based >Intro to >> Python workshops for kids and adults alike. In addition to >editor/IDE, >> there?s another category to consider - specialized education platform >- For >> instance, EarSketch is a >> programming environment made specifically to teach coding through >sound >> mixing. >> >> Over the years we tried Trinket.io, PyCharm Edu, Visual Studio Code, >Mu, >> iPythonNotebooks, Earsketch, Processing in Python mode, Thonny, IDLE >+ some >> I don?t remember. >> >> For us, it?s about prioritizing specific goals for our students and >our >> program. For the summer program we are working with FabLab Houston to >equip >> students with both maker skills and programming skills. They will >learn >> Python with the Raspberry Pi with first the Minecraft Pi api, then >sensor >> stuffs with Circuit Python on Adafruit?s Circuit Playground Learning >> Express, then Processing in Python mode to visualize some data with >> neopixels. For Fab Lab our goal is also to 1. train FabLab staff >members >> with enough programming skills so they can deliver the Invent to >Learn >> program without us, 2. produce open source curriculum from this >program for >> other makerspaces. >> >> Ultimately, I think it should be up to the specific teacher to pick >out >> features - as programmers we tend to look at specs and numbers, but >we must >> also prioritize setting up educators for success - they are the >frontline >> workers delivering the service. For instance, trinket.io is our go-to >> because a lot of educator?s don?t have admin access to their >computers, so >> web-based editor that is easy to use and specifically made for >education is >> great. However we do recognize the value in exposing our students to >tools >> that developers use - like PyCharm. >> This is our pro and cons list off of the top of my head for choosing >an >> editor for different partners and educators that we work with: >> >> - *Platform* - can we do things in command line on the computer that >is >> available to us, whether that?s a raspberry pi, mac, or pc? >Trinket.io is >> a great web-based solution if that?s an issue. >> >> - Existing *resources and community* - are there educator resources? >Is >> this random IDE made by one person as a marketing exercise? if open >source, >> when is the projects' last pull request? The Thonny Editor is awesome >> because there are a lot of high quality curriculum from >> https://projects.raspberrypi.org/ Same goes for Trinket.io. >> >> - Learning Curve for *educator *- If a teacher is teaching this and >not a >> developer, are they able to successfully use this tool? Do we expect >them >> to learn to use the terminal? Again, Trinket.io is a great starting >point. >> >> - Learning Curve for *student *- Does the IDE/Editor have too many >> options? Not enough? What is the cognitive load for the student. >> >> *- Utility for student* - Do we want to provide a real world >developer >> experience for our students? Or is our goal to have them build >something as >> to inspire. Is this a long term program or a short term project? Do >we want >> learners to quickly go through turtles (trinket.io) or be exposed to >> developer tools (pycharm)? >> >> After much consideration, we chose Thonny and also Python mode in the >> Processing IDE for our three week program. >> >> Hope this helps. >> > > >?Yes, it does help very much. I like your choice of Thonny + >Processing. >And your list of criterion is very good and may be useful to many >people on >this list. > >/Digression about trinket, and an alternative that I designed > >I know that a lot of people like trinket.io. However, it has some >negative >points in my opinion: > >1. It uses an implementation of Python 2 - it is not compatible with >Python >3. To me, this is almost inexcusable. >2. It is not a completely free, open source solution. > >As web based alternative to trinket, I suggest my own site: >http://reeborg.ca/reeborg.html - which does support Python 3 and does >not >require users to log in. This has the downside that they cannot save >their >code on my site. However, it is possible to load code hosted elsewhere. >For >example, one could save some code on https://pastebin.com/ and load it >from >there. > >For graphics, Reeborg's World is based on using a Karel-like robot >instead >of a turtle mode ... BUT, one can (in principle) use turtle graphics on >it >-- I just haven't gotten around to incorporating the Brython turtle >module >into it. (It's on my list of things to do. I can bump it up in >priority >enough people are interested, willing to test it and provide feedback). > >While anyone can run arbitrary programs on it, it is designed to have >tasks >that can give feedback to students as to whether or not a given task >has >been accomplished. > >It also offers the *choice* of using an REPL or a block programming >interface. Students can do live "pair programming" (with 2 or more >people >working on a same program from different computers) - or this can also >be >done by a teacher guiding a student at distance. (For this feature, it >uses Mozilla's TogetherJS - which is not compatible with the block >interface designed by Google.) One can step through the code, examine >the >content of variables at every stage, etc. > >Because it is open source, anyone can get a copy of it and run it on >their >own site. (Many teachers do this, as their students have limited >access to >the Internet.) There's more that I could mention including an online >python tutorial which I wrote and which is available in 3 languages >(with a >4th one in the works), an online texbook (written by someone else) that >uses it, a printed book (published in France by another author) etc., >but >this should be enough motivation for anyone interested to have a look >at it. > >/End of digression > > > >Andr? > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >_______________________________________________ >Edu-sig mailing list >Edu-sig at python.org >https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/edu-sig -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From calcpage at aol.com Wed Jul 4 12:32:20 2018 From: calcpage at aol.com (A Jorge Garcia) Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2018 12:32:20 -0400 Subject: [Edu-sig] Editors/IDEs for teaching In-Reply-To: <7b4c6249-fba4-4e6a-a45e-64cb0a4dc482@aol.com> References: <7b4c6249-fba4-4e6a-a45e-64cb0a4dc482@aol.com> Message-ID: <0babc0a7-fca5-4c8b-a727-db1819f7f5a4@aol.com> If u want more bells and whistles, cocalc.com like sage but it's a subscription service. ?Sent from BlueMail ? On Jul 4, 2018, 12:26 PM, at 12:26 PM, A Jorge Garcia wrote: >I like Processing and c9.io for my Computer Science kids. We also used >arduino studio with codrones. > >My math students and I use python a lot on sagecell.sagemath.org. > >HTH, >AJG > >?Sent from BlueMail ? > >On Jul 4, 2018, 12:16 PM, at 12:16 PM, Andre Roberge > wrote: >>On Wed, Jul 4, 2018 at 12:09 PM Wanjun Zhang >>wrote: >> >>> Hi, >>> >>> We recently had to pick a beginner-friendly python editor for our >>Invent >>> to Learn summer program. We also teach a lot of Raspberry Pi based >>Intro to >>> Python workshops for kids and adults alike. In addition to >>editor/IDE, >>> there?s another category to consider - specialized education >platform >>- For >>> instance, EarSketch is a >>> programming environment made specifically to teach coding through >>sound >>> mixing. >>> >>> Over the years we tried Trinket.io, PyCharm Edu, Visual Studio Code, >>Mu, >>> iPythonNotebooks, Earsketch, Processing in Python mode, Thonny, IDLE >>+ some >>> I don?t remember. >>> >>> For us, it?s about prioritizing specific goals for our students and >>our >>> program. For the summer program we are working with FabLab Houston >to >>equip >>> students with both maker skills and programming skills. They will >>learn >>> Python with the Raspberry Pi with first the Minecraft Pi api, then >>sensor >>> stuffs with Circuit Python on Adafruit?s Circuit Playground Learning >>> Express, then Processing in Python mode to visualize some data with >>> neopixels. For Fab Lab our goal is also to 1. train FabLab staff >>members >>> with enough programming skills so they can deliver the Invent to >>Learn >>> program without us, 2. produce open source curriculum from this >>program for >>> other makerspaces. >>> >>> Ultimately, I think it should be up to the specific teacher to pick >>out >>> features - as programmers we tend to look at specs and numbers, but >>we must >>> also prioritize setting up educators for success - they are the >>frontline >>> workers delivering the service. For instance, trinket.io is our >go-to >>> because a lot of educator?s don?t have admin access to their >>computers, so >>> web-based editor that is easy to use and specifically made for >>education is >>> great. However we do recognize the value in exposing our students to >>tools >>> that developers use - like PyCharm. >>> This is our pro and cons list off of the top of my head for choosing >>an >>> editor for different partners and educators that we work with: >>> >>> - *Platform* - can we do things in command line on the computer that >>is >>> available to us, whether that?s a raspberry pi, mac, or pc? >>Trinket.io is >>> a great web-based solution if that?s an issue. >>> >>> - Existing *resources and community* - are there educator resources? >>Is >>> this random IDE made by one person as a marketing exercise? if open >>source, >>> when is the projects' last pull request? The Thonny Editor is >awesome >>> because there are a lot of high quality curriculum from >>> https://projects.raspberrypi.org/ Same goes for Trinket.io. >>> >>> - Learning Curve for *educator *- If a teacher is teaching this and >>not a >>> developer, are they able to successfully use this tool? Do we expect >>them >>> to learn to use the terminal? Again, Trinket.io is a great starting >>point. >>> >>> - Learning Curve for *student *- Does the IDE/Editor have too many >>> options? Not enough? What is the cognitive load for the student. >>> >>> *- Utility for student* - Do we want to provide a real world >>developer >>> experience for our students? Or is our goal to have them build >>something as >>> to inspire. Is this a long term program or a short term project? Do >>we want >>> learners to quickly go through turtles (trinket.io) or be exposed to >>> developer tools (pycharm)? >>> >>> After much consideration, we chose Thonny and also Python mode in >the >>> Processing IDE for our three week program. >>> >>> Hope this helps. >>> >> >> >>?Yes, it does help very much. I like your choice of Thonny + >>Processing. >>And your list of criterion is very good and may be useful to many >>people on >>this list. >> >>/Digression about trinket, and an alternative that I designed >> >>I know that a lot of people like trinket.io. However, it has some >>negative >>points in my opinion: >> >>1. It uses an implementation of Python 2 - it is not compatible with >>Python >>3. To me, this is almost inexcusable. >>2. It is not a completely free, open source solution. >> >>As web based alternative to trinket, I suggest my own site: >>http://reeborg.ca/reeborg.html - which does support Python 3 and does >>not >>require users to log in. This has the downside that they cannot save >>their >>code on my site. However, it is possible to load code hosted >elsewhere. >>For >>example, one could save some code on https://pastebin.com/ and load it >>from >>there. >> >>For graphics, Reeborg's World is based on using a Karel-like robot >>instead >>of a turtle mode ... BUT, one can (in principle) use turtle graphics >on >>it >>-- I just haven't gotten around to incorporating the Brython turtle >>module >>into it. (It's on my list of things to do. I can bump it up in >>priority >>enough people are interested, willing to test it and provide >feedback). >> >>While anyone can run arbitrary programs on it, it is designed to have >>tasks >>that can give feedback to students as to whether or not a given task >>has >>been accomplished. >> >>It also offers the *choice* of using an REPL or a block programming >>interface. Students can do live "pair programming" (with 2 or more >>people >>working on a same program from different computers) - or this can also >>be >>done by a teacher guiding a student at distance. (For this feature, >it >>uses Mozilla's TogetherJS - which is not compatible with the block >>interface designed by Google.) One can step through the code, examine >>the >>content of variables at every stage, etc. >> >>Because it is open source, anyone can get a copy of it and run it on >>their >>own site. (Many teachers do this, as their students have limited >>access to >>the Internet.) There's more that I could mention including an online >>python tutorial which I wrote and which is available in 3 languages >>(with a >>4th one in the works), an online texbook (written by someone else) >that >>uses it, a printed book (published in France by another author) etc., >>but >>this should be enough motivation for anyone interested to have a look >>at it. >> >>/End of digression >> >> >> >>Andr? >> >> >>------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >>_______________________________________________ >>Edu-sig mailing list >>Edu-sig at python.org >>https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/edu-sig -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kirby.urner at gmail.com Thu Jul 5 11:49:55 2018 From: kirby.urner at gmail.com (kirby urner) Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2018 08:49:55 -0700 Subject: [Edu-sig] Editors/IDEs for teaching In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: ?Regarding Atom.io editor for Python (and other languages), I'm just now discovering the Hydrogen plug-in. This allows highlighting contiguous lines in a script and ?treating this as a cell, as if in a Jupyter Notebook (but we're in a normal program). The output inserts directly below. Here's a screen shot: https://flic.kr/p/27KsgFG Editor split in two columns with in-line Jupyter-like output interleaved I found this Youtube showing the user experience: https://youtu.be/VcDbxEV-OI0 Learn Jupyter Notebooks (pt.1a) Hydrogen with Atom ?by Mark Jay? As with Jupyter, you can also get LaTex symbolic output with this feature. Still exploring. Kirby -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kirby.urner at gmail.com Fri Jul 6 13:57:05 2018 From: kirby.urner at gmail.com (kirby urner) Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2018 10:57:05 -0700 Subject: [Edu-sig] false alarms? Message-ID: Apropos of earlier discussions that ?assignment in ? Python is about giving names to objects, ?and ? not putting those objects in boxes, here's a blog post raising the alarm that Python (among others) is "completely incompatible with mathematics". https://blogs.ams.org/matheducation/2017/01/09/integrating-computer-science-in-math-the-potential-is-great-but-so-are-the-risks/ Excerpt: === Making matters worse, programming languages like Java, JavaScript, Python, Scratch and Alice all rely on the concept of assignment. Assignment means that a value is ?stored in a box?, and that the value in that box can be changed. Here?s a simple JavaScript program that demonstrates this: x = 10 x = x + 2 The first line of code assigns the value 10 into a box named ?x?. The second line reads the value back out, adds 2, and assigns the new value back into x. When the program finishes, x contains the value 12. Unfortunately, the semantics and syntax are completely incompatible with mathematics! In math, names are given to values, not boxes. === Following Kenneth Iverson, I think pre-computer math notations (MN) could benefit a lot from an infusion of ideas from these newer executable languages. He turns around the criticism of x = x + 2 by pointing out the ambiguity on in conventional math notation (MN): === MN uses the symbol = for a relation, but also uses it for assignment, as in the expression (Let) x=3. Again, to denote these two distinct notions without ambiguity, programming languages use distinct notation (that usually includes the symbol =), as in := (in ALGOL), and =: (in J). === http://www.jsoftware.com/papers/camn.htm Drawing a line in the sand and saying "on this side is programming" whereas "on this other side is math notation", seems more a bureaucratic maneuver than anything. There's a protection racket going on where self-appointed authorities are planning to warn us against "doing it wrong" i.e. not their way. Many bogus certifications will follow. Not that we shouldn't have standards. The question is who's. math = math + cs Kirby ? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From perrygrossman2008 at gmail.com Sat Jul 7 17:57:58 2018 From: perrygrossman2008 at gmail.com (Perry Grossman) Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2018 17:57:58 -0400 Subject: [Edu-sig] False alarms Message-ID: plus 1: math = math + cs On Sat, Jul 7, 2018, 12:00 PM wrote: > Send Edu-sig mailing list submissions to > edu-sig at python.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/edu-sig > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > edu-sig-request at python.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > edu-sig-owner at python.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Edu-sig digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. false alarms? (kirby urner) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2018 10:57:05 -0700 > From: kirby urner > To: "edu-sig at python.org" > Subject: [Edu-sig] false alarms? > Message-ID: > < > CAPJgG3T3MFbL5AABOhzGm9P5fA49H72+vh+FrokO5Z3mqCpjpA at mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Apropos of earlier discussions that > ?assignment in ? > Python is about giving names to objects, > ?and ? > not putting those objects in boxes, here's a blog post raising the alarm > that Python (among others) is "completely incompatible with mathematics". > > > https://blogs.ams.org/matheducation/2017/01/09/integrating-computer-science-in-math-the-potential-is-great-but-so-are-the-risks/ > > Excerpt: > > === > > Making matters worse, programming languages like Java, JavaScript, Python, > Scratch and Alice all rely on the concept of assignment. Assignment means > that a value is ?stored in a box?, and that the value in that box can be > changed. Here?s a simple JavaScript program that demonstrates this: > > x = 10 > > x = x + 2 > > The first line of code assigns the value 10 into a box named ?x?. The > second line reads the value back out, adds 2, and assigns the new value > back into x. When the program finishes, x contains the value 12. > Unfortunately, the semantics and syntax are completely incompatible with > mathematics! In math, names are given to values, not boxes. > > === > > Following Kenneth Iverson, I think pre-computer math notations (MN) could > benefit a lot from an infusion of ideas from these newer executable > languages. > > He turns around the criticism of x = x + 2 by pointing out the ambiguity on > in conventional math notation (MN): > > === > MN uses the symbol = for a relation, but also uses it for assignment, as in > the expression (Let) x=3. Again, to denote these two distinct notions > without ambiguity, programming languages use distinct notation (that > usually includes the symbol =), as in := (in ALGOL), and =: (in J). > === > > http://www.jsoftware.com/papers/camn.htm > > Drawing a line in the sand and saying "on this side is programming" whereas > "on this other side is math notation", seems more a bureaucratic maneuver > than anything. > > There's a protection racket going on where self-appointed authorities are > planning to warn us against "doing it wrong" i.e. not their way. Many > bogus certifications will follow. Not that we shouldn't have standards. > The question is who's. > > math = math + cs > > Kirby > ? > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://mail.python.org/pipermail/edu-sig/attachments/20180706/83e4e756/attachment-0001.html > > > > ------------------------------ > > Subject: Digest Footer > > _______________________________________________ > Edu-sig mailing list > Edu-sig at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/edu-sig > > > ------------------------------ > > End of Edu-sig Digest, Vol 179, Issue 9 > *************************************** > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From aivar.annamaa at ut.ee Mon Jul 9 07:17:50 2018 From: aivar.annamaa at ut.ee (Aivar Annamaa) Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2018 14:17:50 +0300 Subject: [Edu-sig] Editors/IDEs for teaching In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2afe4cd1-bcc4-3c19-24eb-5e8161522970@ut.ee> Hi! I just found an educational Python IDE nobody hasn't mention yet -- TigerJython: http://jython.tobiaskohn.ch/index.html Here is author's PhD thesis: https://tobiaskohn.ch/files/Dissertation_TKohn.pdf best regards, Aivar 03.07.2018 17:27 Andre Roberge kirjutas: > Hi everyone, > > I'm compiling a list of available editors for Python designed > specifically for teaching, with information about the primary targeted > audiences and would welcome your comments and/or suggestions for > additions or corrections. So far, I have > > Target audience (my own draft definition; feel free to improve upon this): > > * young learners? (elementary and high school students) > > * hobbyists - beginners of all ages learning on their own > > * CS 100 course: elective course targeted at non CS (or even non STEM) > students. The focus is more on concepts, using Python as the practical > tool to learn these concepts, rather than learning the Pythonic idioms > or learning the effectiveness of various algorithms. For example, list > comprehensions would likely not be covered in such a course as it does > not add anything conceptually to an explicit for loop. > > * CS 101 course: core course in CS meant as a requirement for future > courses. Some pythonic idioms and details about algorithms would > likely be covered. > > Editors / IDEs : > > * IDLE: included with Python. Intended for everyone. > * Mu (https://codewith.mu/). Primarily intended for young learners and > hobbyists. > * Thonny. (http://thonny.org/) I am guessing that it is primarily > intended for CS 101. > * Wing 101 (https://wingware.com/downloads/wingide-101) Primarily > intended for CS 101. > * PyCharm Edu (https://www.jetbrains.com/pycharm-edu/) Primarily > intended for CS 101. > > I am not looking for web-based solutions [otherwise, I would have had > included Reeborg's World ;-)] and do not want to include obsolete or > no longer maintained software (like rur-ple, the precursor to > Reeborg's World.) > > Best, > > Andr? > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Edu-sig mailing list > Edu-sig at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/edu-sig -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From andre.roberge at gmail.com Mon Jul 9 08:05:10 2018 From: andre.roberge at gmail.com (Andre Roberge) Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2018 09:05:10 -0300 Subject: [Edu-sig] Editors/IDEs for teaching In-Reply-To: <2afe4cd1-bcc4-3c19-24eb-5e8161522970@ut.ee> References: <2afe4cd1-bcc4-3c19-24eb-5e8161522970@ut.ee> Message-ID: On Mon, Jul 9, 2018 at 8:18 AM Aivar Annamaa wrote: > Hi! > > I just found an educational Python IDE nobody hasn't mention yet -- > TigerJython: http://jython.tobiaskohn.ch/index.html > ? Thank you very much for this. For those that look at the available links and do not pursue further because they appear to point to resources written in German, note that some documents are available in English (and French) in addition to German. For example: http://www.tigerjython.com/engl/index.php I have not tried it yet. Reading the description, I like the fact that it appears to be a self-contained environment (like Thonny and Mu) that include nice simplified tracebacks and other features useful for beginners. I note that it adds to standard Python a special repeat syntax repeat n: # block of code which is something I also support on Reeborg's World. I suggested such an addition for standard Python on the Python-ideas list but it was quickly shut down (and I don't disagree with the rationale given - but I still think it is something very useful in an environment designed for beginners). It is possible to implement something like this in standard Python using import hooks (as I reported some time ago on this list), but it is not exactly easy. (I may have more to say on this soon.) Andr? ? > > Here is author's PhD thesis: > https://tobiaskohn.ch/files/Dissertation_TKohn.pdf > > best regards, > Aivar > > 03.07.2018 17:27 Andre Roberge kirjutas: > > Hi everyone, > > I'm compiling a list of available editors for Python designed specifically > for teaching, with information about the primary targeted audiences and > would welcome your comments and/or suggestions for additions or > corrections. So far, I have > > Target audience (my own draft definition; feel free to improve upon this): > > * young learners (elementary and high school students) > > * hobbyists - beginners of all ages learning on their own > > * CS 100 course: elective course targeted at non CS (or even non STEM) > students. The focus is more on concepts, using Python as the practical tool > to learn these concepts, rather than learning the Pythonic idioms or > learning the effectiveness of various algorithms. For example, list > comprehensions would likely not be covered in such a course as it does not > add anything conceptually to an explicit for loop. > > * CS 101 course: core course in CS meant as a requirement for future > courses. Some pythonic idioms and details about algorithms would likely be > covered. > > Editors / IDEs : > > * IDLE: included with Python. Intended for everyone. > * Mu (https://codewith.mu/). Primarily intended for young learners and > hobbyists. > * Thonny. (http://thonny.org/) I am guessing that it is primarily > intended for CS 101. > * Wing 101 (https://wingware.com/downloads/wingide-101) Primarily > intended for CS 101. > * PyCharm Edu (https://www.jetbrains.com/pycharm-edu/) Primarily intended > for CS 101. > > I am not looking for web-based solutions [otherwise, I would have had > included Reeborg's World ;-)] and do not want to include obsolete or no > longer maintained software (like rur-ple, the precursor to Reeborg's World.) > > Best, > > Andr? > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Edu-sig mailing listEdu-sig at python.orghttps://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/edu-sig > > > _______________________________________________ > Edu-sig mailing list > Edu-sig at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/edu-sig > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kevin.cole at novawebdevelopment.org Mon Jul 9 10:19:06 2018 From: kevin.cole at novawebdevelopment.org (Kevin Cole) Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2018 10:19:06 -0400 Subject: [Edu-sig] Editors/IDEs for teaching In-Reply-To: <1180cbb5-e461-84a6-f634-c0c5e288914e@ntoll.org> References: <1180cbb5-e461-84a6-f634-c0c5e288914e@ntoll.org> Message-ID: On Tue, Jul 3, 2018 at 10:52 AM Nicholas H.Tollervey wrote: On 03/07/18 15:27, Andre Roberge wrote: > > * Mu (https://codewith.mu/). Primarily intended for young learners and > > hobbyists. > > Nope. > > I'm the author of Mu. It's for beginner programmers of all levels (as it > says so on the website). Beginner programmer is a "stage" not an age. ;-) > ?"Young" is a state of mind not an age. ;-) ? -- *Kevin Cole* Software Developer / Member / Owner NOVA Web Development Co-Op http://novawebdevelopment.org/ Arlington, VA -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From aharrin at luc.edu Mon Jul 9 10:46:43 2018 From: aharrin at luc.edu (Andrew Harrington) Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2018 10:46:43 -0400 Subject: [Edu-sig] Editors/IDEs for teaching In-Reply-To: <0186506252c64f43b984b74a153fd6ab@MBXLS1.adms.luc.edu> References: <0186506252c64f43b984b74a153fd6ab@MBXLS1.adms.luc.edu> Message-ID: Not a full IDE, but the fine free CS1-ish text https://runestone.academy/runestone/static/thinkcspy/index.html has the ability to enter Python directly into the browser and run it. When you get to advanced stuff and long programs, it makes sense to switch to a real IDE, but for a painless start, interleaved with exposition and online tests with feedback, it is great. Dr. Andrew N. Harrington Computer Science Department Graduate Program Director gpd at cs.luc.edu Loyola University Chicago 207 Doyle Center, 1052 W Loyola Ave. http://www.cs.luc.edu/~anh Phone: 773-508-3569 Dept. Fax: 773-508-3739 aharrin at luc.edu (as professor, not gpd role) On Tue, Jul 3, 2018 at 10:30 AM Andre Roberge wrote: > Hi everyone, > > I'm compiling a list of available editors for Python designed specifically > for teaching, with information about the primary targeted audiences and > would welcome your comments and/or suggestions for additions or > corrections. So far, I have > > Target audience (my own draft definition; feel free to improve upon this): > > * young learners (elementary and high school students) > > * hobbyists - beginners of all ages learning on their own > > * CS 100 course: elective course targeted at non CS (or even non STEM) > students. The focus is more on concepts, using Python as the practical tool > to learn these concepts, rather than learning the Pythonic idioms or > learning the effectiveness of various algorithms. For example, list > comprehensions would likely not be covered in such a course as it does not > add anything conceptually to an explicit for loop. > > * CS 101 course: core course in CS meant as a requirement for future > courses. Some pythonic idioms and details about algorithms would likely be > covered. > > Editors / IDEs : > > * IDLE: included with Python. Intended for everyone. > * Mu (https://codewith.mu/). Primarily intended for young learners and > hobbyists. > * Thonny. (http://thonny.org/) I am guessing that it is primarily > intended for CS 101. > * Wing 101 (https://wingware.com/downloads/wingide-101) Primarily > intended for CS 101. > * PyCharm Edu (https://www.jetbrains.com/pycharm-edu/) Primarily intended > for CS 101. > > I am not looking for web-based solutions [otherwise, I would have had > included Reeborg's World ;-)] and do not want to include obsolete or no > longer maintained software (like rur-ple, the precursor to Reeborg's World.) > > Best, > > Andr? > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kirby.urner at gmail.com Mon Jul 9 21:03:05 2018 From: kirby.urner at gmail.com (kirby urner) Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2018 18:03:05 -0700 Subject: [Edu-sig] Editors/IDEs for teaching In-Reply-To: References: <0186506252c64f43b984b74a153fd6ab@MBXLS1.adms.luc.edu> Message-ID: On Mon, Jul 9, 2018 at 7:46 AM, Andrew Harrington wrote: > Not a full IDE, but the fine free CS1-ish text > https://runestone.academy/runestone/static/thinkcspy/index.html > has the ability to enter Python directly into the browser and run it. > > ?Awesome! +1 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sergio_r at mail.com Tue Jul 10 08:13:42 2018 From: sergio_r at mail.com (Sergio Rojas) Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2018 14:13:42 +0200 Subject: [Edu-sig] False alarms? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > ?here's a blog post raising the alarm > that Python (among others) is "completely incompatible with mathematics". > > > https://blogs.ams.org/matheducation/2017/01/09/integrating-computer-science-in-math-the-potential-is-great-but-so-are-the-risks/ ? ? I get lost reading the referred blog post. I was under the impression that the ideas presented in the post were already fully discussed back in the 90's, when Mathematica was getting its way into the classroom at US schools. That things like "x = x + x" were already familiar to teachers. In fact, I was thinking of an open source alternative to Mathematica when writing the book on Prealgebra via Python Programming (https://www.researchgate.net/publication/325473565), with the advantage that Python can be used for intensive computing task as well as for symbolic (algebraic) computations (like mathematica) via SymPy. I was under the idea that the Mathematica team has already shaped and polished the road. I can see that I was wrong. It is still very, very rough (much more than the first draft of my book). Sergio > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2018 10:57:05 -0700 > From: kirby urner > To: "edu-sig at python.org" > Subject: [Edu-sig] false alarms? > Message-ID: > < > CAPJgG3T3MFbL5AABOhzGm9P5fA49H72+vh+FrokO5Z3mqCpjpA at mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Apropos of earlier discussions that > ?assignment in ? > Python is about giving names to objects, > ?and ? > not putting those objects in boxes, here's a blog post raising the alarm > that Python (among others) is "completely incompatible with mathematics". > > > https://blogs.ams.org/matheducation/2017/01/09/integrating-computer-science-in-math-the-potential-is-great-but-so-are-the-risks/ > > Excerpt: > > === > > Making matters worse, programming languages like Java, JavaScript, Python, > Scratch and Alice all rely on the concept of assignment. Assignment means > that a value is ?stored in a box?, and that the value in that box can be > changed. Here?s a simple JavaScript program that demonstrates this: > > x = 10 > > x = x + 2 > > The first line of code assigns the value 10 into a box named ?x?. The > second line reads the value back out, adds 2, and assigns the new value > back into x. When the program finishes, x contains the value 12. > Unfortunately, the semantics and syntax are completely incompatible with > mathematics! In math, names are given to values, not boxes. > > === > > Following Kenneth Iverson, I think pre-computer math notations (MN) could > benefit a lot from an infusion of ideas from these newer executable > languages. > > He turns around the criticism of x = x + 2 by pointing out the ambiguity on > in conventional math notation (MN): > > === > MN uses the symbol = for a relation, but also uses it for assignment, as in > the expression (Let) x=3. Again, to denote these two distinct notions > without ambiguity, programming languages use distinct notation (that > usually includes the symbol =), as in := (in ALGOL), and =: (in J). > === > > http://www.jsoftware.com/papers/camn.htm[http://www.jsoftware.com/papers/camn.htm] > > Drawing a line in the sand and saying "on this side is programming" whereas > "on this other side is math notation", seems more a bureaucratic maneuver > than anything. > > There's a protection racket going on where self-appointed authorities are > planning to warn us against "doing it wrong" i.e. not their way. Many > bogus certifications will follow. Not that we shouldn't have standards. > The question is who's. > > math = math + cs > > Kirby > ? > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://mail.python.org/pipermail/edu-sig/attachments/20180706/83e4e756/attachment-0001.html[http://mail.python.org/pipermail/edu-sig/attachments/20180706/83e4e756/attachment-0001.html] > > > > ------------------------------ > > Subject: Digest Footer > > _______________________________________________ > Edu-sig mailing list > Edu-sig at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/edu-sig[https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/edu-sig] > > > ------------------------------ > > End of Edu-sig Digest, Vol 179, Issue 9 > *************************************** > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: ------------------------------ Subject: Digest Footer _______________________________________________ Edu-sig mailing list Edu-sig at python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/edu-sig[https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/edu-sig] ------------------------------ End of Edu-sig Digest, Vol 179, Issue 10 **************************************** From aidiss at gmail.com Tue Jul 10 05:24:11 2018 From: aidiss at gmail.com (Aidis Stukas) Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2018 12:24:11 +0300 Subject: [Edu-sig] Python in Highschool (exams) Message-ID: Are there any countries that teach Python in high school. Also, is it allowed to use Python in programming/informatics exam, if your country has one? -- Aidis Stukas -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ntoll at ntoll.org Tue Jul 10 09:04:40 2018 From: ntoll at ntoll.org (Nicholas H.Tollervey) Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2018 14:04:40 +0100 Subject: [Edu-sig] Python in Highschool (exams) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Here in the UK, most examination boards suggest the use of Python for text based programming exercises at GCSE (16yo) and A-level (18yo) exams. N. On 10/07/18 10:24, Aidis Stukas wrote: > Are there any countries that teach Python in high school. > > Also, is it allowed to use Python in programming/informatics exam, if > your country has one? > -- > Aidis Stukas > > > > _______________________________________________ > Edu-sig mailing list > Edu-sig at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/edu-sig > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 455 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From stephen.murphy91 at gmail.com Tue Jul 10 09:15:59 2018 From: stephen.murphy91 at gmail.com (Stephen Murphy) Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2018 14:15:59 +0100 Subject: [Edu-sig] Python in Highschool (exams) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: In Ireland, Computer Science has been brought in for Leaving certificate level (A-level equivalent) and will be examined first in June 2020. Python (or JS) must be used for both the coursework (30%) and the final summative exam (70%) on a computer. For junior levels, the choice of language is free to the teacher in the coding course. If you need any extra info, please email me directly and I will try and help as best I can. Stephen On Tue 10 Jul 2018 at 14:05, Nicholas H.Tollervey wrote: > Here in the UK, most examination boards suggest the use of Python for > text based programming exercises at GCSE (16yo) and A-level (18yo) exams. > > N. > > On 10/07/18 10:24, Aidis Stukas wrote: > > Are there any countries that teach Python in high school. > > > > Also, is it allowed to use Python in programming/informatics exam, if > > your country has one? > > -- > > Aidis Stukas > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Edu-sig mailing list > > Edu-sig at python.org > > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/edu-sig > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Edu-sig mailing list > Edu-sig at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/edu-sig > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kirby.urner at gmail.com Tue Jul 10 09:39:47 2018 From: kirby.urner at gmail.com (kirby urner) Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2018 06:39:47 -0700 Subject: [Edu-sig] False alarms? Message-ID: Hi Sergio -- Per this article, with so many states and no national curriculum (I don't advocate for one), it's tough to generalize about US schools: https://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2018/07/americas-schools/564413/ Now, to generalize :-D The mathematics classroom was rarely also a computer lab. If the school has a computer lab, that's usually a separate facility and they learn business applications and typing, rarely much programming, until rather recently. Today, schools likely have Chromebooks in large charging cabinets on rollers. Fewer schools give out Chromebooks to each student but that's the trend, perhaps from 6th or 7th grade up. The mathematics curriculum has never integrated any programming as there's still that sense that programming takes years to learn and would be a huge detour. Those of us more familiar with the state of the art don't see it that way. You're right that Mathematica paved the way for a small subculture and I-Python, Sage, Jupyter Notebooks, SymPy do feature in some US schools, but very few. Rather than integrate mathematics and learning to code, the strong belief is we need to keep math and computer science separated, which means teaching a lot of things twice, given the Venn Diagram shows large overlap. Your book, which I've been reading, takes the more integrated approach that I favor. Math teachers are in a tough position I think, as a lot of the mathy content that students find most attractive is being placed in another subject area. I have my opinions about all this, as a former high school math teacher turned applications programmer and teacher-trainer. https://medium.com/@kirbyurner/the-plight-of-high-school-math-teachers-c0faf0a6efe6 Finding a lot of computer science teachers in a hurry is the name of the game right now, and lots of educators are selling on ramp teacher training programs. That's becoming a big business. I expect many with a math teaching background are currently migrating to computer science, so in some sense my desire for better integration is being fulfilled. Some of this on ramp programs teach a language called Pyret, which we're told is the better way to go. Kirby On Tue, Jul 10, 2018 at 5:13 AM, Sergio Rojas wrote: > > > here's a blog post raising the alarm > > that Python (among others) is "completely incompatible with mathematics". > > > > > > https://blogs.ams.org/matheducation/2017/01/09/ > integrating-computer-science-in-math-the-potential-is- > great-but-so-are-the-risks/ > > > > I get lost reading the referred blog post. I was > under the impression that the ideas presented in the > post were already fully discussed back in the 90's, > when Mathematica was getting its way into the > classroom at US schools. That things like "x = x + x" > were already familiar to teachers. > > In fact, I was thinking of an open source alternative to Mathematica > when writing the book on Prealgebra via Python Programming > (https://www.researchgate.net/publication/325473565), with the > advantage that Python can be used for intensive computing task as > well as for symbolic (algebraic) computations (like mathematica) > via SymPy. > > I was under the idea that the Mathematica team has already shaped and > polished the road. I can see that I was wrong. It is still very, very > rough (much more than the first draft of my book). > > Sergio > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sergio_r at mail.com Tue Jul 10 14:51:05 2018 From: sergio_r at mail.com (Sergio Rojas) Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2018 20:51:05 +0200 Subject: [Edu-sig] False alarms? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Okey-dokey, Kirby. Nice exposition, including the web links. To explore this issue a bit further, how, in your view, the Common Core State Standards (http://www.corestandards.org/) fit in the CS call at schools? The standard points what perhaps is already being implemented as an operational way to approach it: from page 7 of http://www.corestandards.org/wp-content/uploads/Math_Standards1.pdf 5 Use appropriate tools strategically. Mathematically proficient students consider the available tools when solving a mathematical problem. These tools might include pencil and paper, concrete models, a ruler, a protractor, a calculator, a spreadsheet, a computer algebra system, a statistical package, or dynamic geometry software. ? ? Sent:?Tuesday, July 10, 2018 at 9:39 AM From:?"kirby urner" To:?"Sergio Rojas" Cc:?"edu-sig at python.org" Subject:?Re: [Edu-sig] False alarms? Hi Sergio -- ? Per this article, with so many states and no national curriculum (I don't advocate for one), it's tough to generalize about US schools: ? https://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2018/07/americas-schools/564413/ ? Now, to generalize :-D ? The mathematics classroom was rarely also a computer lab.? If the school has a computer lab, that's usually a separate facility and they learn business applications and typing, rarely much programming, until rather recently. ? Today, schools likely have Chromebooks in large charging cabinets on rollers.? Fewer schools give out Chromebooks to each student but that's the trend, perhaps from 6th or 7th grade up. ? The mathematics curriculum has never integrated any programming as there's still that sense that programming takes years to learn and would be a huge detour.? Those of us more familiar with the state of the art don't see it that way. ? You're right that Mathematica paved the way for a small subculture and I-Python, Sage, Jupyter Notebooks, SymPy do feature in some US schools, but very few. ? Rather than integrate mathematics and learning to code, the strong belief is we need to keep math and computer science separated, which means teaching a lot of things twice, given the Venn Diagram shows large overlap. ? Your book, which I've been reading, takes the more integrated approach that I favor. ? Math teachers are in a tough position I think, as a lot of the mathy content that students find most attractive is being placed in another subject area. ? I have my opinions about all this, as a former high school math teacher turned applications programmer and teacher-trainer. ? https://medium.com/@kirbyurner/the-plight-of-high-school-math-teachers-c0faf0a6efe6[https://medium.com/@kirbyurner/the-plight-of-high-school-math-teachers-c0faf0a6efe6] ? Finding a lot of computer science teachers in a hurry is the name of the game right now, and lots of educators are selling on ramp teacher training programs.? That's becoming a big business.? ? I expect many with a math teaching background are currently migrating to computer science, so in some sense my desire for better integration is being fulfilled.? Some of this on ramp programs teach a language called Pyret, which we're told is the better way to go. ? Kirby ? ? ? ? On Tue, Jul 10, 2018 at 5:13 AM, Sergio Rojas wrote: > ?here's a blog post raising the alarm > that Python (among others) is "completely incompatible with mathematics". > > > https://blogs.ams.org/matheducation/2017/01/09/integrating-computer-science-in-math-the-potential-is-great-but-so-are-the-risks/[https://blogs.ams.org/matheducation/2017/01/09/integrating-computer-science-in-math-the-potential-is-great-but-so-are-the-risks/] ? ? I get lost reading the referred blog post. I was under the impression that the ideas presented in the post were already fully discussed back in the 90's, when Mathematica was getting its way into the classroom at US schools. That things like "x = x + x" were already familiar to teachers. In fact, I was thinking of an open source alternative to Mathematica when writing the book on Prealgebra via Python Programming (https://www.researchgate.net/publication/325473565[https://www.researchgate.net/publication/325473565]), with the advantage that Python can be used for intensive computing task as well as for symbolic (algebraic) computations (like mathematica) via SymPy. I was under the idea that the Mathematica team has already shaped and polished the road. I can see that I was wrong. It is still very, very rough (much more than the first draft of my book). Sergio ? From kirby.urner at gmail.com Tue Jul 10 20:58:28 2018 From: kirby.urner at gmail.com (kirby urner) Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2018 17:58:28 -0700 Subject: [Edu-sig] False alarms? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, Jul 10, 2018 at 11:51 AM, Sergio Rojas wrote: > Okey-dokey, Kirby. Nice exposition, including the web links. > To explore this issue a bit further, how, in your view, > the Common Core State Standards (http://www.corestandards.org/) > fit in the CS call at schools? > > The standard points what perhaps is already being implemented as > an operational way to approach it: > from page 7 of > http://www.corestandards.org/wp-content/uploads/Math_Standards1.pdf > > > 5 Use appropriate tools strategically. > Mathematically proficient students consider the available tools when > solving a mathematical problem. These tools might include pencil > and paper, concrete models, a ruler, a protractor, a calculator, > a spreadsheet, a computer algebra system, > a statistical package, or dynamic geometry software. > > > ?Excellent question and highly relevant to bring up Common Core Math Standards. I understand a physicist dude came up with it originally?? Seems I saw that somewhere. My attitude is CCMS is a bare minimum, a super stripped down almost-starving diet that sets a floor. Faculties are free to pack it out with a whole lot more if they wish: golden ratio, polyhedrons (in vector spaces), unicode, and of course bases other than 10. CCMS is not a ceiling and was never intended as such. We could treat it as about 10% of what we hope to cover -- under the heading of CS (I'm not sure math teachers will have the time, given they don't have the millisecond turnaround times we do, with our computers). Kirby -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sergio_r at mail.com Wed Jul 11 08:19:16 2018 From: sergio_r at mail.com (Sergio Rojas) Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2018 14:19:16 +0200 Subject: [Edu-sig] False alarms? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: ?Kirby, Definitely good points to invest a couple of beers cerebrating about them regarding the teaching and learning process and how to do better. Thanks for sharing. Sergio ? Sent:?Tuesday, July 10, 2018 at 8:58 PM From:?"kirby urner" To:?"Sergio Rojas" Cc:?"edu-sig at python.org" Subject:?Re: [Edu-sig] False alarms? ? ? On Tue, Jul 10, 2018 at 11:51 AM, Sergio Rojas wrote:?Okey-dokey, Kirby. Nice exposition, including the web links. To explore this issue a bit further, how, in your view, ?the Common Core State Standards (http://www.corestandards.org/[http://www.corestandards.org/]) fit in the CS call at schools? The standard points what perhaps is already being implemented as an operational way to approach it: from page 7 of http://www.corestandards.org/wp-content/uploads/Math_Standards1.pdf[http://www.corestandards.org/wp-content/uploads/Math_Standards1.pdf] ? ? ?5 Use appropriate tools strategically. Mathematically proficient students consider the available tools when solving a mathematical problem. These tools might include pencil and paper, concrete models, a ruler, a protractor, a calculator, a spreadsheet, a computer algebra system, a statistical package, or dynamic geometry software. ? ?? ? ? ?Excellent question and highly relevant to bring up Common Core Math Standards.?? I understand a physicist dude came up with it originally??? Seems I saw that somewhere. ? My attitude is CCMS is a bare minimum, a super stripped down almost-starving? diet that sets a floor.? Faculties are free to pack it out with a whole lot more if they wish: golden ratio, polyhedrons (in vector spaces), unicode, and of course bases other than 10. ? CCMS is not a ceiling and was never intended as such.? We could treat it as about? 10% of what we hope to cover -- under the heading of CS (I'm not sure math? teachers will have the time, given they don't have the millisecond turnaround? times we do, with our computers). ? Kirby ? ? ? From kirby.urner at gmail.com Wed Jul 11 09:22:44 2018 From: kirby.urner at gmail.com (kirby urner) Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2018 06:22:44 -0700 Subject: [Edu-sig] False alarms? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, Jul 11, 2018 at 5:19 AM, Sergio Rojas wrote: > > Kirby, Definitely good points to invest a couple of beers cerebrating > about > them regarding the teaching and learning process and how to do better. > Thanks for sharing. > > Sergio > ?Definitely worth some beers to figure out a master plan for improving the educational experience of students everywhere. With my so-called Martian Math, I have a market advantage in that I've got some interesting content that practically no one else is taking advantage of, yet there's a large public literature behind it. I told my summer campers they were entering a goldmine of of raw material for possible research projects down the road, which they could be pretty sure was fresh and new to their teachers and peers. Kirby ? > > ?Excellent question and highly relevant to bring up Common Core Math > Standards. > I understand a physicist dude came up with it originally?? Seems I saw > that somewhere. > > My attitude is CCMS is a bare minimum, a super stripped down > almost-starving > diet that sets a floor. Faculties are free to pack it out with a whole > lot more if they > wish: golden ratio, polyhedrons (in vector spaces), unicode, and of course > bases > other than 10. > > CCMS is not a ceiling and was never intended as such. We could treat it > as about > 10% of what we hope to cover -- under the heading of CS (I'm not sure math > teachers will have the time, given they don't have the millisecond > turnaround > times we do, with our computers). > > Kirby > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From calcpage at aol.com Wed Jul 11 09:59:40 2018 From: calcpage at aol.com (A Jorge Garcia) Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2018 09:59:40 -0400 Subject: [Edu-sig] False alarms? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0a4d992d-86df-49df-9314-bbb89f271541@aol.com> FYI, I dumped Graphing Calculators completely in my Multivariable Calculus class that I'm teaching right now during summer session at the local community college. I'm using SageCell, have a look, http://shadowfaxrant.blogspot.com and http://www.youtube.com/calcpage2009 HTH, AJG ?Sent from BlueMail ? On Jul 10, 2018, 9:40 AM, at 9:40 AM, kirby urner wrote: >Hi Sergio -- > >Per this article, with so many states and no national curriculum (I >don't >advocate for one), it's tough to generalize about US schools: > >https://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2018/07/americas-schools/564413/ > >Now, to generalize :-D > >The mathematics classroom was rarely also a computer lab. If the >school >has a computer lab, that's usually a separate facility and they learn >business applications and typing, rarely much programming, until rather >recently. > >Today, schools likely have Chromebooks in large charging cabinets on >rollers. Fewer schools give out Chromebooks to each student but that's >the >trend, perhaps from 6th or 7th grade up. > >The mathematics curriculum has never integrated any programming as >there's >still that sense that programming takes years to learn and would be a >huge >detour. Those of us more familiar with the state of the art don't see >it >that way. > >You're right that Mathematica paved the way for a small subculture and >I-Python, Sage, Jupyter Notebooks, SymPy do feature in some US schools, >but >very few. > >Rather than integrate mathematics and learning to code, the strong >belief >is we need to keep math and computer science separated, which means >teaching a lot of things twice, given the Venn Diagram shows large >overlap. > >Your book, which I've been reading, takes the more integrated approach >that >I favor. > >Math teachers are in a tough position I think, as a lot of the mathy >content that students find most attractive is being placed in another >subject area. > >I have my opinions about all this, as a former high school math teacher >turned applications programmer and teacher-trainer. > >https://medium.com/@kirbyurner/the-plight-of-high-school-math-teachers-c0faf0a6efe6 > >Finding a lot of computer science teachers in a hurry is the name of >the >game right now, and lots of educators are selling on ramp teacher >training >programs. That's becoming a big business. > >I expect many with a math teaching background are currently migrating >to >computer science, so in some sense my desire for better integration is >being fulfilled. Some of this on ramp programs teach a language called >Pyret, which we're told is the better way to go. > >Kirby > > > > >On Tue, Jul 10, 2018 at 5:13 AM, Sergio Rojas >wrote: > >> >> > here's a blog post raising the alarm >> > that Python (among others) is "completely incompatible with >mathematics". >> > >> > >> > https://blogs.ams.org/matheducation/2017/01/09/ >> integrating-computer-science-in-math-the-potential-is- >> great-but-so-are-the-risks/ >> >> >> >> I get lost reading the referred blog post. I was >> under the impression that the ideas presented in the >> post were already fully discussed back in the 90's, >> when Mathematica was getting its way into the >> classroom at US schools. That things like "x = x + x" >> were already familiar to teachers. >> >> In fact, I was thinking of an open source alternative to Mathematica >> when writing the book on Prealgebra via Python Programming >> (https://www.researchgate.net/publication/325473565), with the >> advantage that Python can be used for intensive computing task as >> well as for symbolic (algebraic) computations (like mathematica) >> via SymPy. >> >> I was under the idea that the Mathematica team has already shaped and >> polished the road. I can see that I was wrong. It is still very, very >> rough (much more than the first draft of my book). >> >> Sergio >> >> >> > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >_______________________________________________ >Edu-sig mailing list >Edu-sig at python.org >https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/edu-sig -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From santiago at rmotr.com Wed Jul 11 14:40:22 2018 From: santiago at rmotr.com (Santiago Basulto) Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2018 15:40:22 -0300 Subject: [Edu-sig] Jupyter notebooks with exercises and solutions on Azure Message-ID: Hello friends! I'm looking for a solution to share projects and homework with our students that would allow us to "hide" solutions for exercises. I'm aware of Exercise and Exercise2 from jupyter extensions (which both look great), but I can't seem to make them work on Azure notebooks. Any ideas? Thanks very much! PS: We're using Azure notebooks so we can get our students up and running without the need of installing Python + jupyter + libraries locally. But maybe there's another choice that would allow us to do this? -- Santiago Basulto.- Co-founder @ rmotr.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sergio_r at mail.com Thu Jul 12 12:18:45 2018 From: sergio_r at mail.com (Sergio Rojas) Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2018 18:18:45 +0200 Subject: [Edu-sig] False alarms? In-Reply-To: <0a4d992d-86df-49df-9314-bbb89f271541@aol.com> References: <0a4d992d-86df-49df-9314-bbb89f271541@aol.com> Message-ID: An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From calcpage at aol.com Thu Jul 12 13:00:03 2018 From: calcpage at aol.com (A Jorge Garcia) Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2018 13:00:03 -0400 Subject: [Edu-sig] False alarms? In-Reply-To: References: <0a4d992d-86df-49df-9314-bbb89f271541@aol.com> Message-ID: <0485912b-37aa-48dc-9fca-aabb6dc0a42e@aol.com> True, but scipy and maxima are built into SAGE. ?Sent from BlueMail ? On Jul 12, 2018, 12:18 PM, at 12:18 PM, Sergio Rojas wrote: > > >Hola Jorge, > > > >Thanks for pointing out your blog, Jorge. > > > >I have explored Sage as a much madure open source alternative > >to Mathematica than Sympy (the other one I like is Maxima). It > >is really great as you have shown in your blog for calculus in several > >variables. > > > >An issue for me, though, is that it is an stand alone system and >apparently it is not callable > >from a Python session (I have found no way of doing so as we can do > >with SymPy). Like that it is like using Maxima on its own. > > > >Salut, > > > >Sergio > > > > > >a python session > >Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2018 at 9:59 AM >From: "A Jorge Garcia" >To: "kirby urner" >Cc: "Sergio Rojas" , "A Jorge Garcia via Edu-sig" > >Subject: Re: [Edu-sig] False alarms? > >FYI, I dumped Graphing Calculators completely in my Multivariable >Calculus class that I'm teaching right now during summer session at the >local community college. > > >I'm using SageCell, have a look, http://shadowfaxrant.blogspot.com and >http://www.youtube.com/calcpage2009 > > >HTH, > >AJG > >Sent from BlueMail > >On Jul 10, 2018, at 9:40 AM, kirby urner < kirby.urner at gmail.com> >wrote: > >Hi Sergio -- > > > >Per this article, with so many states and no national curriculum (I >don't advocate for one), it's tough to generalize about US schools: > > > >https://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2018/07/americas-schools/564413/ > > > > >Now, to generalize :-D > > > >The mathematics classroom was rarely also a computer lab. If the >school has a computer lab, that's usually a separate facility and they >learn business applications and typing, rarely much programming, until >rather recently. > > > >Today, schools likely have Chromebooks in large charging cabinets on >rollers. Fewer schools give out Chromebooks to each student but that's >the trend, perhaps from 6th or 7th grade up. > > > >The mathematics curriculum has never integrated any programming as >there's still that sense that programming takes years to learn and >would be a huge detour. Those of us more familiar with the state of >the art don't see it that way. > > > >You're right that Mathematica paved the way for a small subculture and >I-Python, Sage, Jupyter Notebooks, SymPy do feature in some US schools, >but very few. > > > >Rather than integrate mathematics and learning to code, the strong >belief is we need to keep math and computer science separated, which >means teaching a lot of things twice, given the Venn Diagram shows >large overlap. > > > >Your book, which I've been reading, takes the more integrated approach >that I favor. > > > >Math teachers are in a tough position I think, as a lot of the mathy >content that students find most attractive is being placed in another >subject area. > > > >I have my opinions about all this, as a former high school math teacher >turned applications programmer and teacher-trainer. > > > >https://medium.com/@kirbyurner/the-plight-of-high-school-math-teachers-c0faf0a6efe6 > > > > >Finding a lot of computer science teachers in a hurry is the name of >the game right now, and lots of educators are selling on ramp teacher >training programs. That's becoming a big business. > > > >I expect many with a math teaching background are currently migrating >to computer science, so in some sense my desire for better integration >is being fulfilled. Some of this on ramp programs teach a language >called Pyret, which we're told is the better way to go. > > > >Kirby > > > > > > > > > >On Tue, Jul 10, 2018 at 5:13 AM, Sergio Rojas >wrote: > > >> here's a blog post raising the alarm >> that Python (among others) is "completely incompatible with >mathematics". >> >> >> >https://blogs.ams.org/matheducation/2017/01/09/integrating-computer-science-in-math-the-potential-is-great-but-so-are-the-risks/ > > > > >I get lost reading the referred blog post. I was >under the impression that the ideas presented in the >post were already fully discussed back in the 90's, >when Mathematica was getting its way into the >classroom at US schools. That things like "x = x + x" >were already familiar to teachers. > >In fact, I was thinking of an open source alternative to Mathematica >when writing the book on Prealgebra via Python Programming >( https://www.researchgate.net/publication/325473565), with the >advantage that Python can be used for intensive computing task as >well as for symbolic (algebraic) computations (like mathematica) >via SymPy. > >I was under the idea that the Mathematica team has already shaped and >polished the road. I can see that I was wrong. It is still very, very >rough (much more than the first draft of my book). > >Sergio > > > > _____________________________________________ > >Edu-sig mailing list >Edu-sig at python.org >https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/edu-sig -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kirby.urner at gmail.com Fri Jul 13 02:01:00 2018 From: kirby.urner at gmail.com (kirby urner) Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2018 23:01:00 -0700 Subject: [Edu-sig] excerpt from real world python class Message-ID: When I'm not doing exotic Martian Math summer school, sharing weird Portland math no one knows if not an American literature buff (1900s New England Transcendentalism), I'm teaching night school Intro to Python, in California, or nationwide, online. Tonight I was saying that whereas Python is named for Monty Python, I think Greek Mythology probably has a long half-life (it's not either/or anyway), so I'm into exploring Vaults of Parnassus etc., not a new idea among Pythonistas (to link to Greek myths). This is to explain some of the comments. >From tonight's summary meetup (last session, 10 of 10): ===== #!/usr/bin/env python3 # -*- coding: utf-8 -*- """ Created on Thu Jul 12 16:39:32 2018 @author: Kirby Urner """ class I: """ a goofy goofy I normally Pythonistas say self not me, but hey, it's just a placeholder. Free country. """ def __init__(me): me.stomach = [ ] # empty (subclasses use it) me.energy = 100 def __repr__(self): return "I live at {} on Memory Lane".format(id(self)) def __str__(me): return "Well hello, I'm a self" def selfie(me): "Click!" return me def __enter__(me): """ context manager I am """ return me.selfie() # same as return self def __exit__(me, *oops): if oops[0]: return False # woopsy, sorry about that return True def __del__(me): print("I now have one less refcount!") if __name__ == "__main__": with I() as me: print(me) print([me]) # me sticks around even after context ends other = I() print(other, "too") print([other]) del me del other ========== #!/usr/bin/env python3 # -*- coding: utf-8 -*- """ Created on Thu Jul 12 16:56:25 2018 @author: kurner """ from selfcentered import I class Foe(I): """ The mythical Python lived under Mt. Parnassus (?????????) and its breath (?) gave the Oracle of Delphi her powers of diagnosis and prognosis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pythia """ def __del__(self): # https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Athena_Parthenos print("Apollo thinks I'm dead, but I escaped to Nashville") global selfcentered import selfcentered selfcentered.Python = self # hide out in another module class Hero(I): """ Apollo is supposed to have slain the Python under Mt. Parnassus """ def __init__(self): super().__init__() print("A hero is born!") def eat(self, food : str): if not type(food) == str: raise ValueError self.stomach += [food] # yum! self.energy += 10 def slay(self): global Python if self.energy: del Python print("Foe slain") else: print("I'm too weary to fight. Feed me!") self.__spend_energy() def __spend_energy(self): if self.energy: self.energy = (self.energy - 10 if self.energy >= 10 else 0) if len(self.stomach): print("Digesting {}".format(self.stomach.pop(0))) def seek(self): print("seeking foe") self.__spend_energy() def __repr__(self): return "< Hero Energy:{} Stomach:{} >".\ format(self.energy, len(self.stomach)) if __name__ == "__main__": Python = Foe() # Foe Apollo = Hero() # Hero Apollo.eat("Manly Meal") print(Apollo.stomach) Hero.seek(Apollo) Apollo.seek() print(repr(Apollo)) Apollo.eat("Rats") Apollo.eat("Beer") Apollo.seek() Apollo.seek() Apollo.seek() Apollo.seek() print(repr(Apollo)) Apollo.slay() print(repr(Apollo)) Apollo._Hero__spend_energy() # remember name mangling? print(repr(Apollo)) print("Good bye Apollo") del Apollo ======= OUTPUT: runfile('/Users/mac/Documents/pyt-pr/Session10/heroic_story.py', wdir='/Users/mac/Documents/pyt-pr/Session10') A hero is born! ['Manly Meal'] seeking foe Digesting Manly Meal seeking foe < Hero Energy:90 Stomach:0 > seeking foe Digesting Rats seeking foe Digesting Beer seeking foe seeking foe < Hero Energy:70 Stomach:0 > Apollo thinks I'm dead, but I escaped to Nashville Foe slain < Hero Energy:60 Stomach:0 > < Hero Energy:50 Stomach:0 > Good bye Apollo I now have one less refcount! selfcentered.Python Out[26]: I live at 4892551320 on Memory Lane """LAB 3 UNTIL 10:10""" Out[20]: 'LAB 3 UNTIL 10:10' class Dog: def bark(self): print("Bark!") dog = Dog() dog.bark() Bark! Dog.bark(dog) Bark! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wes.turner at gmail.com Mon Jul 16 21:37:42 2018 From: wes.turner at gmail.com (Wes Turner) Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2018 21:37:42 -0400 Subject: [Edu-sig] False alarms? In-Reply-To: <0485912b-37aa-48dc-9fca-aabb6dc0a42e@aol.com> References: <0a4d992d-86df-49df-9314-bbb89f271541@aol.com> <0485912b-37aa-48dc-9fca-aabb6dc0a42e@aol.com> Message-ID: - [ ] Develop URIs for K12CS framework, Common Core, Khan Academy concepts - [ ] Encourage educational CreativeWork creators to include schema.org markup in their HTML: - schema.org/about - schema.org/educationalAlignment .url @id - https://schema.org/educationalFramework - [ ] Develop mappings between concept/curriculum/#head-ing URIs - [ ] Integrate math and science with K12 CS Framework - [ ] Integrate Common Core Math with K12 CS Framework - [ ] Integrate Common Core Language Arts with K12 CS Framework - interactive presentations ("stories") - [ ] Create a schema.org/Course composed of paths and traversals of CreativeWork(s) and Event(s) - [ ] Create nbgrader Jupyter notebooks with/for Khan Academy Math and Science SAT prep lessons - [ ] Create edX course w/ jupyter-edx-grader-xblock ## sympy ```bash # conda install -y anaconda # sympy conda install -y sympy ``` ### sage ```bash conda config --add channels conda-forge && conda update --all conda create -n notebooks sage sympy notebook ``` ## SAT prep https://www.khanacademy.org/test-prep/sat - ./math - ./reading-and-writing - [ ] science? ## Jupyter, sage, sympy, applied maths - https://github.com/jupyter/docker-stacks - https://github.com/sagemathinc/cocalc-docker - https://github.com/Kaggle/docker-python/blob/master/Dockerfile - https://github.com/ibleducation/jupyter-edx-grader-xblock https://k12cs.org/framework-statements-by-concept/ On Thursday, July 12, 2018, A Jorge Garcia via Edu-sig wrote: > True, but scipy and maxima are built into SAGE. > > Sent from BlueMail > On Jul 12, 2018, at 12:18 PM, Sergio Rojas wrote: >> >> >> Hola Jorge, >> >> Thanks for pointing out your blog, Jorge. >> >> I have explored Sage as a much madure open source alternative >> to Mathematica than Sympy (the other one I like is Maxima). It >> is really great as you have shown in your blog for calculus in several >> variables. >> >> An issue for me, though, is that it is an stand alone system and >> apparently it is not callable >> from a Python session (I have found no way of doing so as we can do >> with SymPy). Like that it is like using Maxima on its own. >> >> Salut, >> >> Sergio >> >> >> a python session >> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 11, 2018 at 9:59 AM >> *From:* "A Jorge Garcia" >> *To:* "kirby urner" >> *Cc:* "Sergio Rojas" , "A Jorge Garcia via Edu-sig" < >> edu-sig at python.org> >> *Subject:* Re: [Edu-sig] False alarms? >> FYI, I dumped Graphing Calculators completely in my Multivariable >> Calculus class that I'm teaching right now during summer session at the >> local community college. >> >> I'm using SageCell, have a look, http://shadowfaxrant.blogspot.com and >> http://www.youtube.com/calcpage2009 >> >> HTH, >> AJG >> Sent from BlueMail >> On Jul 10, 2018, at 9:40 AM, kirby urner < kirby.urner at gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>> Hi Sergio -- >>> >>> Per this article, with so many states and no national curriculum (I >>> don't advocate for one), it's tough to generalize about US schools: >>> >>> https://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2018/07/ >>> americas-schools/564413/ >>> >>> Now, to generalize :-D >>> >>> The mathematics classroom was rarely also a computer lab. If the school >>> has a computer lab, that's usually a separate facility and they learn >>> business applications and typing, rarely much programming, until rather >>> recently. >>> >>> Today, schools likely have Chromebooks in large charging cabinets on >>> rollers. Fewer schools give out Chromebooks to each student but that's the >>> trend, perhaps from 6th or 7th grade up. >>> >>> The mathematics curriculum has never integrated any programming as >>> there's still that sense that programming takes years to learn and would be >>> a huge detour. Those of us more familiar with the state of the art don't >>> see it that way. >>> >>> You're right that Mathematica paved the way for a small subculture and >>> I-Python, Sage, Jupyter Notebooks, SymPy do feature in some US schools, but >>> very few. >>> >>> Rather than integrate mathematics and learning to code, the strong >>> belief is we need to keep math and computer science separated, which means >>> teaching a lot of things twice, given the Venn Diagram shows large overlap. >>> >>> Your book, which I've been reading, takes the more integrated approach >>> that I favor. >>> >>> Math teachers are in a tough position I think, as a lot of the mathy >>> content that students find most attractive is being placed in another >>> subject area. >>> >>> I have my opinions about all this, as a former high school math teacher >>> turned applications programmer and teacher-trainer. >>> >>> https://medium.com/@kirbyurner/the-plight-of-high-school-math-teachers- >>> c0faf0a6efe6 >>> >>> Finding a lot of computer science teachers in a hurry is the name of the >>> game right now, and lots of educators are selling on ramp teacher training >>> programs. That's becoming a big business. >>> >>> I expect many with a math teaching background are currently migrating to >>> computer science, so in some sense my desire for better integration is >>> being fulfilled. Some of this on ramp programs teach a language called >>> Pyret, which we're told is the better way to go. >>> >>> Kirby >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Tue, Jul 10, 2018 at 5:13 AM, Sergio Rojas >>> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> > here's a blog post raising the alarm >>>> > that Python (among others) is "completely incompatible with >>>> mathematics". >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > https://blogs.ams.org/matheducation/2017/01/09/ >>>> integrating-computer-science-in-math-the-potential-is- >>>> great-but-so-are-the-risks/ >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> I get lost reading the referred blog post. I was >>>> under the impression that the ideas presented in the >>>> post were already fully discussed back in the 90's, >>>> when Mathematica was getting its way into the >>>> classroom at US schools. That things like "x = x + x" >>>> were already familiar to teachers. >>>> >>>> In fact, I was thinking of an open source alternative to Mathematica >>>> when writing the book on Prealgebra via Python Programming >>>> ( https://www.researchgate.net/publication/325473565), with the >>>> advantage that Python can be used for intensive computing task as >>>> well as for symbolic (algebraic) computations (like mathematica) >>>> via SymPy. >>>> >>>> I was under the idea that the Mathematica team has already shaped and >>>> polished the road. I can see that I was wrong. It is still very, very >>>> rough (much more than the first draft of my book). >>>> >>>> Sergio >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> >>> Edu-sig mailing list >>> Edu-sig at python.org >>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/edu-sig >> >> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kirby.urner at gmail.com Tue Jul 17 18:27:22 2018 From: kirby.urner at gmail.com (kirby urner) Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2018 15:27:22 -0700 Subject: [Edu-sig] False alarms? In-Reply-To: References: <0a4d992d-86df-49df-9314-bbb89f271541@aol.com> <0485912b-37aa-48dc-9fca-aabb6dc0a42e@aol.com> Message-ID: Wow that'd be something to have some student / faculty take advantage of the schema.org templates for sharing topics. The School Server: Do We Have One? At the college level you often get faculty / students building and tending servers of various types, and otherwise assisting in the management of computing infrastructure used throughout the school. Were I to design a new school from scratch, I would assume a central store where theatrical events, sporting events, student and faculty recordings in many categories, could be collected and also to some extent shared with alumni. This describes my relationship to my university (as an alum, I have access to various services), but not to my high school. I don't think many millennials have a way to log in to their old high schools, as alumni, to view debates, presentations, show & tell experiences, nor even a school paper. There's a home page perhaps, something hosted at the district level, and a way to drill down for institutional information, but don't expect to watch last week's football game on-line. Python.org is exemplary in documenting ongoing conversations and administrative processes through discussion groups. In the interests of transparency, many of these are public. Note: through Facebook and informal networks sharing digital assets privately, a well-connected alum may nevertheless gain access to a lot of information, there's just no in-house dedicated effort towards maintaining such services, meaning faculty and students are less likely to experience real world responsibilities, such as for maintaining the Chess Club server (which is a lot about community outreach and actually teaching chess, not just giving students ways to play each other). Impressions from OSCON I keep coming back to what's happened in statistics, which in my high school years was an elective on par with trigonometry. If you wanted to augment your required math with electives, you could add stats and trig to the menu (I did). Otherwise, just do Algebra 1, Geometry, Algebra 2 (Pre-Calc) and Calc. Statistics turned into Machine Learning in a lot of ways. Tensorflow 1.9 is more like Pytorch these days in allowing us to skirt the "old way" of doing it: at a more meta level. That way is still there, and important, but Google is these days pressing ahead with: # TensorFlow and tf.keras import tensorflow as tf from tensorflow import keras Note how each of these 5 tutorials (as of July-August 2018) has a link in the upper left to a corresponding Jupyter Notebook, dubbed Colab: https://www.tensorflow.org/tutorials/ This is what OSCON tutorials look like today, with the speaker mentioning how you rarely need more then twelves lines of code in a code cell. Programming no longer has to mean writing lengthy scripts. Mathematica helped pave the way for these high level APIs. All of which takes me back to my suggestion that we beef up the stats aspect of high school and use it as a place to expose students to some of these higher level APIs, giving them the flavor.[1] Get used to managing datasets, not just noodling through one little computation at a time. Speaking of what's fun for kids, check out this drawing program, which tries to guess what you're drawing ahead of time. The algorithm is no just looking the the cumulative graphic, but at the order in which you draw its parts, as when writing a Chinese character. https://quickdraw.withgoogle.com/ Have your sound turned on, as it talks to you. Kirby [1] https://mail.python.org/pipermail/edu-sig/2018-April/011825.html On Mon, Jul 16, 2018 at 6:37 PM, Wes Turner wrote: > - [ ] Develop URIs for K12CS framework, Common Core, Khan Academy concepts > > - [ ] Encourage educational CreativeWork creators to include schema.org > markup in their HTML: > > - schema.org/about > - schema.org/educationalAlignment .url @id > - https://schema.org/educationalFramework > > - [ ] Develop mappings between concept/curriculum/#head-ing URIs > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From renesd at gmail.com Wed Jul 18 03:51:20 2018 From: renesd at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?Q?Ren=C3=A9_Dudfield?=) Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2018 09:51:20 +0200 Subject: [Edu-sig] learning by contributing to FLOSS (and pygame in specific) Message-ID: Hello, I'm looking for a small group of 10-30 people who are interested in contributing to the pygame project as part of a class or user group meeting. Rather than a normal user group meeting or class, it could be: "contribute to an open source project". Be in touch!? Let's do it! :) *Why?* (teaching by helping people contribute to FLOSS projects.) Because you don't learn karate from a book. Builds social connections and skills. Portfolio, and evidence of talent. Sort of fun and different compared to a talks night at a user group. *Why pygame?* (rather than some other project) Because I want to do this with my pet project. It's sort of fun compared to some topics (better than watching paint dry at least). Because it's sort of well known project (millions of users). ... with almost zero full time or even part time developers (that's why it's called pygame zero). Because I will help before and during the class(es)/session(s), and have resources and issues prepared. *[hey! you could totally do this with your own pet projects too!]* *How will a gathering work?* *The goal*: At the end of the gathering, people will have learned how a FLOSS project is done, submitted a PR, and have a big thank you posted on the website. A session could run like this: 1. A short lightning talk can be done on what's happening by someone on how to write a unit test, and what is a github issue (slides can be made available). 2. A number of topics will be presented to choose from. These will be 'low hanging fruit' issues. Like, "write a test for a draw rectangle functions". 3. People will split off into small groups of 2-4 people. Each choosing an issue. Probably beginners and experts will be mixed together. 4. Project developers will be available via web chat (Discord) (or in person perhaps if it's where the developers live...). 5. results will be pasted into issues, and perhaps even pull requests made. 6. At the end one person from each group will show off what they've done and experienced to the group. (several short talks) [Hrmm... you may be thinking that this sort of sounds exactly like a Dojo (shout out to London Python Dojo) or mini conference sprint format(shout out to pypy!). Yop.) If anyone wants to do this with me please be in touch to get this going! I will announce when it's happening so people can drop by online too if they want. cheers, -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ntoll at ntoll.org Wed Jul 18 04:05:29 2018 From: ntoll at ntoll.org (Nicholas H.Tollervey) Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2018 09:05:29 +0100 Subject: [Edu-sig] [pygame] learning by contributing to FLOSS (and pygame in specific) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <24d43827-6745-407f-125d-f7d1796ad689@ntoll.org> This is great! A quick question: where / when? N. On 18/07/18 08:51, Ren? Dudfield wrote: > Hello, > > I'm looking for a small group of 10-30 people who are interested in > contributing to the pygame project as part of a class or user group meeting. > > Rather than a normal user group meeting or class, it could be: > "contribute to an open source project". > > Be in touch!? Let's do it! :) > > > /*Why?*/ (teaching by helping people contribute to FLOSS projects.) > Because you don't learn karate from a book. > Builds social connections and skills. > Portfolio, and evidence of talent. > Sort of fun and different compared to a talks night at a user group. > > *Why pygame?* (rather than some other project) > Because I want to do this with my pet project. > It's sort of fun compared to some topics (better than watching paint dry > at least). > Because it's sort of well known project (millions of users). > ... with almost zero full time or even part time developers (that's why > it's called pygame zero). > Because I will help before and during the class(es)/session(s), and have > resources and issues prepared. > ? /*[*hey! you could totally do this with your own pet projects too!*]*/ > > > *How will a gathering work?* > > *The goal*: At the end of the gathering, people will have learned how a > FLOSS project is done, submitted a PR, and have a big thank you posted > on the website. > > A session could run like this: > > 1. A short lightning talk can be done on what's happening by someone on > how to write a unit test, and what is a github issue (slides can be > made available). > 2. A number of topics will be presented to choose from. These will be > 'low hanging fruit' issues. Like, "write a test for a draw rectangle > functions". > 3. People will split off into small groups of 2-4 people. Each choosing > an issue. Probably beginners and experts will be mixed together. > 4. Project developers will be available via web chat (Discord) (or in > person perhaps if it's where the developers live...). > 5. results will be pasted into issues, and perhaps even pull requests made. > 6. At the end one person from each group will show off what they've > done and experienced to the group. (several short talks) > > [Hrmm... you may be thinking that this sort of sounds exactly like a > Dojo (shout out to London Python Dojo) or mini conference sprint > format(shout out to pypy!). Yop.) > > If anyone wants to do this with me please be in touch to get this going! > I will announce when it's happening so people can drop by online too if > they want. > > > > cheers, -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 455 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From renesd at gmail.com Wed Jul 18 05:14:28 2018 From: renesd at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?Q?Ren=C3=A9_Dudfield?=) Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2018 11:14:28 +0200 Subject: [Edu-sig] [pygame] learning by contributing to FLOSS (and pygame in specific) In-Reply-To: <24d43827-6745-407f-125d-f7d1796ad689@ntoll.org> References: <24d43827-6745-407f-125d-f7d1796ad689@ntoll.org> Message-ID: It depends on when/where the group is that wants to do the session :) I'll send a when/where update when I've found that group. cheerio, On Wed, Jul 18, 2018 at 10:05 AM, Nicholas H.Tollervey wrote: > This is great! A quick question: where / when? > > N. > > On 18/07/18 08:51, Ren? Dudfield wrote: > > Hello, > > > > I'm looking for a small group of 10-30 people who are interested in > > contributing to the pygame project as part of a class or user group > meeting. > > > > Rather than a normal user group meeting or class, it could be: > > "contribute to an open source project". > > > > Be in touch!? Let's do it! :) > > > > > > /*Why?*/ (teaching by helping people contribute to FLOSS projects.) > > Because you don't learn karate from a book. > > Builds social connections and skills. > > Portfolio, and evidence of talent. > > Sort of fun and different compared to a talks night at a user group. > > > > *Why pygame?* (rather than some other project) > > Because I want to do this with my pet project. > > It's sort of fun compared to some topics (better than watching paint dry > > at least). > > Because it's sort of well known project (millions of users). > > ... with almost zero full time or even part time developers (that's why > > it's called pygame zero). > > Because I will help before and during the class(es)/session(s), and have > > resources and issues prepared. > > /*[*hey! you could totally do this with your own pet projects too!*]*/ > > > > > > *How will a gathering work?* > > > > *The goal*: At the end of the gathering, people will have learned how a > > FLOSS project is done, submitted a PR, and have a big thank you posted > > on the website. > > > > A session could run like this: > > > > 1. A short lightning talk can be done on what's happening by someone on > > how to write a unit test, and what is a github issue (slides can be > > made available). > > 2. A number of topics will be presented to choose from. These will be > > 'low hanging fruit' issues. Like, "write a test for a draw rectangle > > functions". > > 3. People will split off into small groups of 2-4 people. Each choosing > > an issue. Probably beginners and experts will be mixed together. > > 4. Project developers will be available via web chat (Discord) (or in > > person perhaps if it's where the developers live...). > > 5. results will be pasted into issues, and perhaps even pull requests > made. > > 6. At the end one person from each group will show off what they've > > done and experienced to the group. (several short talks) > > > > [Hrmm... you may be thinking that this sort of sounds exactly like a > > Dojo (shout out to London Python Dojo) or mini conference sprint > > format(shout out to pypy!). Yop.) > > > > If anyone wants to do this with me please be in touch to get this going! > > I will announce when it's happening so people can drop by online too if > > they want. > > > > > > > > cheers, > > > > _______________________________________________ > Edu-sig mailing list > Edu-sig at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/edu-sig > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From 964683112 at qq.com Wed Jul 18 04:37:46 2018 From: 964683112 at qq.com (964683112) Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2018 16:37:46 +0800 Subject: [Edu-sig] [pygame] learning by contributing to FLOSS (and pygame in specific) In-Reply-To: <24d43827-6745-407f-125d-f7d1796ad689@ntoll.org> References: <24d43827-6745-407f-125d-f7d1796ad689@ntoll.org> Message-ID: +B2FF2AB49FCAB72C An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kirby.urner at gmail.com Fri Jul 20 12:42:41 2018 From: kirby.urner at gmail.com (kirby urner) Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2018 09:42:41 -0700 Subject: [Edu-sig] the state of Vpython Message-ID: edu-sig has a long history with Visual Python, going back to Pygeo (Arthur Siegel's project, pygeo.sourceforge.net/ ) any my own work with that package. What's the state of the art today? In a word: Glowscript. Here's a good example. I see dates on the source code suggesting the site is maintained and evolving. https://bphilhour.trinket.io/physics-through-glowscript-an-introductory-course#/1-introduction-objects-parameters-and-the-3d-environment/welcome-and-introduction Kirby -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From calcpage at aol.com Fri Jul 20 16:32:24 2018 From: calcpage at aol.com (A Jorge Garcia) Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2018 16:32:24 -0400 Subject: [Edu-sig] the state of Vpython In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I used to install turtle.py with IDLE and Vpython with VIDLE for my students. Great fun! ?Sent from BlueMail ? On Jul 20, 2018, 12:44 PM, at 12:44 PM, kirby urner wrote: >edu-sig has a long history with Visual Python, going back to Pygeo >(Arthur >Siegel's project, pygeo.sourceforge.net/ ) any my own work with that >package. > >What's the state of the art today? In a word: Glowscript. > >Here's a good example. I see dates on the source code suggesting the >site >is maintained and evolving. > >https://bphilhour.trinket.io/physics-through-glowscript-an-introductory-course#/1-introduction-objects-parameters-and-the-3d-environment/welcome-and-introduction > >Kirby > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >_______________________________________________ >Edu-sig mailing list >Edu-sig at python.org >https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/edu-sig -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kirby.urner at gmail.com Sun Jul 29 22:40:16 2018 From: kirby.urner at gmail.com (kirby urner) Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2018 19:40:16 -0700 Subject: [Edu-sig] Python for Microprocessors Message-ID: I'm just now perusing Steve Holden's slides for the first time, in PDF format, regarding the state of the art when it comes to Pythonic hardware (e.g. Micro:bit): https://github.com/holdenweb/PyConIE2017/blob/master/MicroPythonEcosystem.pdf I find this illuminating. Steve has a long fascination with hardware programming. Also, I'm just putting some finishing touches on a Medium piece (unrestricted) advertising the capabilities of the Raspberry Pi platform (not Python specific, but certainly Python-linked): https://medium.com/@kirbyurner/summer-camp-computing-some-fun-in-the-sun-95c4efd5af94 (the top picture shows a Pi Lab the same Steve Holden set up in Portland some years ago, helping to catalyze our little subculture). 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