From jumasheff at gmail.com Fri Feb 1 13:08:22 2013 From: jumasheff at gmail.com (Murat Jumashev) Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2013 18:08:22 +0600 Subject: [Edu-sig] Python's keywords and functions convertor into native language for lowering entrance barrier In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi, Kirby, Andr? Thank you so much for your advices, links and ideas! I admit that non-english programming approach has more cons than pros, but it will definitely help Kyrgyz young people to understand the basic coding consepts. At this time, for them code samples written in pure python may look like the following piece of code for american (or english speaking) children: ?????? = ["????", "??????", "?????", "?????"] ????? = "?????, " ????? ???? ?????? ??????: ????? ????? + ???? This was a sample for loop :) The whole idea is not about teaching coding only in Kython (let's call Kyrgyz version of Python this way :) ), but it is rather about showing them in the very first classes that programming is not that awfully complicated and dull as they thought. After they master basic Kython, it is probably useful to slightly move to Python. I'll write as I move on this, if it's interesting for you. You can always find me in Google+ https://plus.google.com/106158508876298632579/posts Thank you! 2013/1/31 kirby urner > Hi Murat -- > > I presume you know that Python 3 source code may use any Unicode strings > for names, including variables, functions, classes and so on. > > That leaves 33 keywords in English. > > >>> import keyword > >>> keyword.kwlist > > You can write a script that simply catalogs synonyms for builtins. > > >>> ????? = print > >>> ?????(10) > 10 > > 'print' is not a keyword in Python 3 so this assigning of a Kyrgyz name is > possible. > > So if you had a script named kyrgyz.py, you could provide many synonyms > for common functions such as dir, input, and even type names such as str, > list, int, dict, float. > > However, what dir( ) returns will still contain English much of the time. > The Standard Library is in English. > > This compromise solution that keeps the 33 English keywords at a minimum > will help students learn to read more Python written by others. They won't > need a "special Python" to interpret the code. > > The documentation, docstrings, variable, function, class names etc. can > all be in Krgyz even now, with no further modifications. > > I work with a programmer in Indonesia who sometimes sends me Python that's > 90% Indonesian. > > Here's a Wiki page on the topic of Python in non-Latin1-languages: > > http://wiki.python.org/moin/Languages > > Kirby > > Sample source (Kazakh): > > # -*- coding: utf-8 -*- # python 3.0/3.1 ????? = ['??????? ???', '??????? ???', '??????? ?????'] ?????_???? = ['??????', '???????'] for ?????x in ?????: for ?????_????x in ?????_????: print(?????x + ' ' + ?????_????x) > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kirby.urner at gmail.com Sun Feb 3 03:44:36 2013 From: kirby.urner at gmail.com (kirby urner) Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2013 18:44:36 -0800 Subject: [Edu-sig] Python's keywords and functions convertor into native language for lowering entrance barrier In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I think Kython is a wonderful idea, and corresponding trainers in any Unicode language. Ideally there'd be a Kython -> Python translator, even at the source code level, that only swapped in the Python keywords, builtins, special names, Standard Library names. This looks like a "round trip" exercise (goes both ways), meaning any Unicode community might craft something similar. Given the isomorphisms involved (no information is lost), it seems possible to translate from any to any. Yes, that makes it sounds easier than it is. Something to chip away at over time. Kirby -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bu4fred at yahoo.com Sun Feb 3 17:33:50 2013 From: bu4fred at yahoo.com (Fred Sells) Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2013 08:33:50 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Edu-sig] Teaching Python via PyGame Message-ID: <1359909230.79234.YahooMailNeo@web122501.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> I'm an old hand at Python, but really a programmer by trade, not an educator. Most programming courses that I've taken were very boring due to their focus on text input and response. I am exploring teaching Python to high school seniors as part of an advanced program. I thought that a more interactive environment like PyGame would provide more stimulation and a better understanding of? logic thinking that the typical exercises I was exposed to.? For instance, tick-tac-toe, checkers and monopoly can all be children of the base "BoardGame" class.? And while tick-tac-toe may be practical, I doubt if checkers or monopoly would be. Can anyone point me to some links that support using Python as an introduction to computing at an advanced high school level and Can anyone point me to some reference material on tools used to teach python? Thanks, Fred. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From naomi.ceder at gmail.com Sun Feb 3 18:03:02 2013 From: naomi.ceder at gmail.com (Naomi Ceder) Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2013 11:03:02 -0600 Subject: [Edu-sig] Teaching Python via PyGame In-Reply-To: <1359909230.79234.YahooMailNeo@web122501.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1359909230.79234.YahooMailNeo@web122501.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi, I don't know if Al Sweigart is on this list, but he has a book on that very subject... *Making Games with Python & Pygame* - http://www.amazon.com/Making-Games-Python-Pygame-Sweigart/dp/1469901730. He also has *Invent Your Own Computer Games with Python * http://www.amazon.com/Invent-Computer-Games-Python-Edition/dp/0982106017 I've never really looked at them closely, but they seem to be highly regarded, so you might check them out. Also, Warren and Carter Sande's *Hello World* has a chapter using Pygame to write a little downhill skier game... Probably others here have some other ideas as well... Cheers, Naomi On Sun, Feb 3, 2013 at 10:33 AM, Fred Sells wrote: > I'm an old hand at Python, but really a programmer by trade, not an > educator. > > Most programming courses that I've taken were very boring due to their > focus on text input and response. > > I am exploring teaching Python to high school seniors as part of an > advanced program. > > I thought that a more interactive environment like PyGame would provide > more stimulation and a better understanding of logic thinking that the > typical exercises I was exposed to. For instance, tick-tac-toe, checkers > and monopoly can all be children of the base "BoardGame" class. And while > tick-tac-toe may be practical, I doubt if checkers or monopoly would be. > > Can anyone point me to some links that support using Python as an > introduction to computing at an advanced high school level > > and > > Can anyone point me to some reference material on tools used to teach > python? > > Thanks, > > Fred. > > _______________________________________________ > Edu-sig mailing list > Edu-sig at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/edu-sig > > -- Naomi Ceder https://plus.google.com/u/0/111396744045017339164/about -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jasonrbriggs at gmail.com Sun Feb 3 18:22:15 2013 From: jasonrbriggs at gmail.com (Jason Briggs) Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2013 17:22:15 +0000 Subject: [Edu-sig] Teaching Python via PyGame In-Reply-To: <1359909230.79234.YahooMailNeo@web122501.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1359909230.79234.YahooMailNeo@web122501.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Here's an option if you want to use Python3: http://www.amazon.com/Python-Kids-Playful-Introduction-Programming/dp/1593274076 Not much on PyGame there. The focus is on the (simpler) tkinter library in the chapters on games development. (disclaimer: I'm to blame for that one? ;-) On 3 Feb 2013, at 16:33, Fred Sells wrote: > I'm an old hand at Python, but really a programmer by trade, not an educator. > > Most programming courses that I've taken were very boring due to their focus on text input and response. > > I am exploring teaching Python to high school seniors as part of an advanced program. > > I thought that a more interactive environment like PyGame would provide more stimulation and a better understanding of logic thinking that the typical exercises I was exposed to. For instance, tick-tac-toe, checkers and monopoly can all be children of the base "BoardGame" class. And while tick-tac-toe may be practical, I doubt if checkers or monopoly would be. > > Can anyone point me to some links that support using Python as an introduction to computing at an advanced high school level > > and > > Can anyone point me to some reference material on tools used to teach python? > > Thanks, > > Fred. > _______________________________________________ > Edu-sig mailing list > Edu-sig at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/edu-sig -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From peirce.dan at gmail.com Sun Feb 3 19:22:15 2013 From: peirce.dan at gmail.com (Dan Peirce) Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2013 10:22:15 -0800 Subject: [Edu-sig] (no subject) Message-ID: The exploratory type of math that the high school is trying to teach unfortunately can be extremely time consuming and off-putting. The result is that I keep hearing "I hate math". On more than one occasion when one of my kids asked for help with math it occurred to me that we could gain insight into the problem using a computer. On those occasions I typically turned to a spreadsheet for the power it can give in quickly generating numerical results from simple expressions that could take a long time to produce with pencil an paper. This can make discerning patterns far less laborious. The question that has been nagging me is why are the schools not taking advantage of computers to teach math? Recently I have started to play around with Python. In part because I got my hands on a Raspberry Pi. So I came across Matplotlib and IPython. One of the instructors at my University decided to use Python in his 2nd year physics course where they are using differential equations. I have started looking for material related to python being used to teach high school math. So, I started googling Python Math K-12 to see what would come up. It looks like a number of schools have combined Math and programming in python. http://pyvideo.org/video/437/pycon-2011--panel--python-in-schools--teaching-it http://cs.gettysburg.edu/~tneller/resources/k12/index.html http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hbeHdg8mtdc http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/python/python/33832 As a parent it is kind of tricky to have the right material on hand at the right time for when any particular question comes up. Yesterday I thought I'd see what can be done with fractions. I discovered that there is a module for fractions but also that one can construct simple functions for gcd and lcm and not use the fractions module. I'm thinking this approach might be better for reviewing fractions. If I do end up using python to help my 15 year old with her homework I think that I had better be proficient at it or the demonstration will go flat. I have python on our computer now so she could actually explore it herself at any time. Searching up material on the web has turned a lot up but to talk to my daughter about it and educators as well it would be really helpful to have a good book on hand. I have noticed there are some quite divergent opinions on how to proceed. As a parent I need to be able to support whatever they are currently doing so material that goes off on different tangents won't be helpful. From peirce.dan at gmail.com Sun Feb 3 22:19:56 2013 From: peirce.dan at gmail.com (Dan Peirce) Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2013 13:19:56 -0800 Subject: [Edu-sig] "Teaching Your Child To Hack Math" Message-ID: This looks like a possible approach to for a parent to engage an older child in using a computer to explore math. http://www.wiredacademic.com/2012/12/jonathan-mugan-teaching-your-child-to-hack-math/ "This embodiment of math in programming enables your child to poke and prod math like it is a living thing, allowing learning to happen through experimentation." "Your child can also use programming to build a math toolkit that will be useful later. This toolkit can be used to check homework and do class projects. When your child learns a new algorithm in school, such as long division, he or she can program the algorithm in Python and use it to check intermediate computations. Having access to this toolkit and the ability to expand it will foster a habit of computational thinking. Your child can grow to be like a digital sorcerer casting spells and learning new ones." comments? Note my previous postg was related but I had forgotten to add a subject. From missive at hotmail.com Sun Feb 3 23:20:20 2013 From: missive at hotmail.com (Lee Harr) Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2013 02:50:20 +0430 Subject: [Edu-sig] Teaching Python via PyGame Message-ID: > Can anyone point me to some links that support using Python as an introduction > to computing at an advanced high school level > > Can anyone point me to some reference material on tools used to teach python? I made a pygame framework a few years ago with a similar goal: http://www.nongnu.org/pygsear/ There is a book linked from that page that goes through writing pong and frogger using the framework. Recently I have moved away from Pygame to PyQt. I am working on updating Start Programming to video: http://pynguin.googlecode.com/ https://code.google.com/p/pynguin/wiki/StartProgramming Once students have some experience, they could try Pybotwar: http://pybotwar.googlecode.com/ From kirby.urner at gmail.com Mon Feb 4 03:31:25 2013 From: kirby.urner at gmail.com (kirby urner) Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2013 18:31:25 -0800 Subject: [Edu-sig] (no subject) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Dan -- You ask a lot of good questions. I don't think it's required that you know Python cold (i.e. really well) before sharing it with your daughter or others. They see you're tackling something and getting better at it bit by bit, like sailing, playing the guitar, and that's inspiring. If she passes you in proficiency and starts showing you stuff, that would be fine too right? [ Have you shown her Vi Hart's work? She's a daughter of a computer geek turned artist. My daughter, 18, is a fan.] http://youtu.be/heKK95DAKms Thanks for those links by the way. I delivered one of those talks, but hadn't until tonight heard the panel moderated by Zac Miller, dunno why. There's lots going on, cross-currents. I don't think you can go wrong investing more time in Python. Your daughter may or make not take to it (sometimes they just circle). If she just watches over your shoulder sometimes, as you tackle something you're working on... My foray into teaching high school right out of college, even with considerable computer training (not a computer science major though, liberal arts here) felt like one of those science fiction disaster films where all the cars are coming the other way on the freeway, and you're alone heading into Boston or whatever. The teachers were all leaving that career, feeling burned out, and knew if they could get more computer skills, they could probably get a higher paying position outside of teaching. People with computer skills were not flooding in to help with math teaching. They had their sites set elsewhere. I later worked at McGraw-Hill and looked at textbook publishing from that angle. Lets just say there's lots of inertia in this picture, and that teachers aren't usually revolutionaries (only sometimes). This was 1981 (I was class of 1980). I ended up in a small exclusive Catholic academy for young women (a high school) for a couple years. My contemporaries, with similar training, would soon be making six times my income, but I was young and carefree and already privileged, so I was willing to live poor. I'm now listening to Maria Litvin in the background. Her book, written with her partner Gary (a poster to this list) is worth ordering if you don't have it yet: Mathematics for the Digital Age and Programming in Python (Skylit Publishing). http://www.skylit.com/mathandpython.html OK, now Jeff is starting talking. I've met him in person several times, fun guy, a pioneer in this area. "Is that Jeff Elkner?" Steve just asked, recognizing the voice on my laptop. That's Steve Holden, former chairman of Python Software Foundation. I'm over at his apartment on Superbowl Sunday -- the power's out in the stadium. I missed the first half of the game, watching Tosca (the opera) downtown (a windfall free ticket). Your idea to do fractions, to build them from the inside out, is a good idea. You could start with Guido's record-simple GCD function, for Euclid's Algorithm, then gradually build out with __add__, __mul__ etc. using these inside a class (you can call out to them). def gcd(a, b): while b: a, b = b, a % b return a def lcm(a, b): return ( a * b ) // gcd(a, b) The thing about Euclid's Algorithm is it's barely taught at all in high schools, and if you ask why, then you've again jumped into a rather deep discussion, deeper than just computers. The Litvins books starts to build a Fraction but mostly eschews defining classes. A "classes early" approach is also doable -- many different approaches to this airport, pick your vector. I show how a class looks something like a snake: class Head: # rib cage def __rib__(self): pass # air between ribs def __rib__(self): pass def __rib__(self): pass def __rib__(self): pass def __rib__(self): pass ... and in general use a lot of biological metaphors / analogies. Kirby Web resources: http://www.4dsolutions.net/ocn/numeracy0.html http://www.4dsolutions.net/ocn/cp4e.html From kurner at oreillyschool.com Fri Feb 8 02:20:29 2013 From: kurner at oreillyschool.com (Kirby Urner) Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2013 17:20:29 -0800 Subject: [Edu-sig] (no subject) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sun, Feb 3, 2013 at 6:31 PM, kirby urner wrote: << SNIP >> > Your idea to do fractions, to build them from the inside out, is a > good idea. You could start with Guido's record-simple GCD function, > for Euclid's Algorithm, then gradually build out with __add__, __mul__ > etc. using these inside a class (you can call out to them). > > def gcd(a, b): > while b: > a, b = b, a % b > return a > > def lcm(a, b): > return ( a * b ) // gcd(a, b) > > The thing about Euclid's Algorithm is it's barely taught at all in > high schools, and if you ask why, then you've again jumped into a > rather deep discussion, deeper than just computers. > > As I was mentioning to Dan off-list, it's the Closure property of Rational numbers (rats) under both addition-subtraction and multiplication-division, that makes them such pleasing mathematical objects. Yes, the whole numbers and naturals (N) are closed under addition too, but then there're no inverses except for zero. With Z we get both inverses and closure (operation addition). Associativity. With Q, we get that for two operations (__add__ and __mul__), and distributivity besides. Our first field maybe. But to really show that, you want to be able to give birth to Fractions with fractions as inputs: >>> p = Rat(1,2) >>> q = Rat(4,3) >>> r = Rat(p, q) This shows allowing both int type and rat type as inputs. I think that's a fine place to draw the line, in terms of introducing basic type checking. I've seen blogs about how "isinstance is evil in a duck pond" but I'm fine with type checking. Python is dynamically typed, not weakly typed. So that puts the burden on __init__ to be sophisticated enough to birth new Rationals from any two Rationals. ints are immediately recognized as Rat(n, 1). The set int (Z) is a subset of Q. That, by the way, is how to make this seem more like math teaching, not just computer science teaching. Remind students about N < Z < Q < R < C (which is not the whole story). Operator overriding is what makes for a sophisticated turn of the spiral around the 8th or 9th grade reading level. You realize that __add__ and __mul__ may be defined for many types, and yet there's a family resemblance that emerges: the property of having an identity element; the property of having and inverse element for each element, such that self + ~self == Identity element. In addition to the Rats, I like to introduce numbers that multiply modulo N, could be called the Modulo Numbers. That's just repackaging well known content, using the OO approach of "math objects". Take the totatives of a number N and make them multiply module N: you've got closure, associativity, identity and inverse elements, every time. That's a group. Welcome to abstract algebra, courtesy of __mul__. def totatives(n): return [ r for r in range(1, n) if gcd(r, n) == 1] # gcd defined above def totient(n): return len(totatives(n)) >>> totatives(12) [1, 5, 7, 11] >>> totatives(100) [1, 3, 7, 9, 11, 13, 17, 19, 21, 23, 27, 29, 31, 33, 37, 39, 41, 43, 47, 49, 51, 53, 57, 59, 61, 63, 67, 69, 71, 73, 77, 79, 81, 83, 87, 89, 91, 93, 97, 99] I've got a web page called Vegetable Group Soup with more about all this but I won't give the URL, because there's a nasty noise, like a machine at a factory, and you might be wearing headphones. Kirby > The Litvins books starts to build a Fraction but mostly eschews > defining classes. > > A "classes early" approach is also doable -- many different approaches > to this airport, pick your vector. > > I show how a class looks something like a snake: > > class Head: > # rib cage > def __rib__(self): > pass # air between ribs > def __rib__(self): > pass > def __rib__(self): > pass > def __rib__(self): > pass > def __rib__(self): > pass > > ... and in general use a lot of biological metaphors / analogies. > > > Kirby > > Web resources: > > http://www.4dsolutions.net/ocn/numeracy0.html > http://www.4dsolutions.net/ocn/cp4e.html > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From henrique at bastos.net Sun Feb 10 16:20:36 2013 From: henrique at bastos.net (Henrique Bastos) Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2013 13:20:36 -0200 Subject: [Edu-sig] Python's keywords and functions convertor into native language for lowering entrance barrier In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Murat, It's a hack, but it's also possible to pre-process the source code. Check out PEP 263 . Luciano Ramalho publishedhis project Sucuri (native brazilian name for Python) as an exercise inspired by a blog post from Benji York . This would enable you to "remap" all the keywords. Using this combined with Kirby's strategy may be enough to introduce programing to your students with simple projects written in their native language. All the best, -- Henrique Bastos Twitter: @henriquebastos Skype: henriquebastos.net +55 21 9618-6180 On Sun, Feb 3, 2013 at 12:44 AM, kirby urner wrote: > I think Kython is a wonderful idea, and corresponding trainers in any > Unicode language. > > Ideally there'd be a Kython -> Python translator, even at the source code > level, that only swapped in the Python keywords, builtins, special names, > Standard Library names. > > This looks like a "round trip" exercise (goes both ways), meaning any > Unicode community might craft something similar. > > Given the isomorphisms involved (no information is lost), it seems > possible to translate from any to any. > > Yes, that makes it sounds easier than it is. Something to chip away at > over time. > > Kirby > > > > _______________________________________________ > Edu-sig mailing list > Edu-sig at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/edu-sig > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pythonic.math at gmail.com Sun Feb 10 16:26:27 2013 From: pythonic.math at gmail.com (michel paul) Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2013 07:26:27 -0800 Subject: [Edu-sig] mathics - free alternative to Mathematica built on Python and SymPy Message-ID: A student sent me this.: http://www.mathics.org/ It's Mathematica lite, for free. Though built with Python, Sage, and SymPy, it accepts Mathematica syntax and provides much of its basic functionality. In an age where anyone can do genuinely high quality math in their browser for free, that's what we should be showing the kids. I think things are going to be heading more in that direction, not less. -- Michel =================================== "What I cannot create, I do not understand." - Richard Feynman =================================== "Computer science is the new mathematics." - Dr. Christos Papadimitriou =================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From peirce.dan at gmail.com Sun Feb 10 19:33:20 2013 From: peirce.dan at gmail.com (Dan Peirce) Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2013 10:33:20 -0800 Subject: [Edu-sig] mathics - free alternative to Mathematica built on Python and SymPy In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: It looks impressive, but at the moment on line it appears to be amazingly slow even for simple calculations. On 2/10/13, michel paul wrote: > A student sent me this.: http://www.mathics.org/ > > It's Mathematica lite, for free. Though built with Python, Sage, and SymPy, > it accepts Mathematica syntax and provides much of its basic functionality. > > In an age where anyone can do genuinely high quality math in their browser > for free, that's what we should be showing the kids. I think things are > going to be heading more in that direction, not less. > > -- Michel > > =================================== > "What I cannot create, I do not understand." > > - Richard Feynman > =================================== > "Computer science is the new mathematics." > > - Dr. Christos Papadimitriou > =================================== > From pythonic.math at gmail.com Sun Feb 10 21:46:08 2013 From: pythonic.math at gmail.com (michel paul) Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2013 12:46:08 -0800 Subject: [Edu-sig] mathics - free alternative to Mathematica built on Python and SymPy In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Yeah, it can be slow. As they do say on the site, not necessarily industrial strength, but could be useful for educational purposes. However, who knows how it might be able to improve over time? On Sun, Feb 10, 2013 at 10:33 AM, Dan Peirce wrote: > It looks impressive, but at the moment on line it appears to be > amazingly slow even for simple calculations. > > On 2/10/13, michel paul wrote: > > A student sent me this.: http://www.mathics.org/ > > > > It's Mathematica lite, for free. Though built with Python, Sage, and > SymPy, > > it accepts Mathematica syntax and provides much of its basic > functionality. > > > > In an age where anyone can do genuinely high quality math in their > browser > > for free, that's what we should be showing the kids. I think things are > > going to be heading more in that direction, not less. > > > > -- Michel > > > > =================================== > > "What I cannot create, I do not understand." > > > > - Richard Feynman > > =================================== > > "Computer science is the new mathematics." > > > > - Dr. Christos Papadimitriou > > =================================== > > > -- =================================== "What I cannot create, I do not understand." - Richard Feynman =================================== "Computer science is the new mathematics." - Dr. Christos Papadimitriou =================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From david at mathwithoutborders.com Sun Feb 10 21:53:39 2013 From: david at mathwithoutborders.com (David Chandler) Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2013 12:53:39 -0800 Subject: [Edu-sig] mathics - free alternative to Mathematica built on Python and SymPy In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I've just started poking around with Sage, and it looks pretty good to me. I don't see any big advantages using Mathics instead. For students I'm planning to just present them with a limited set of commands, for the topic at hand, and point them to Ted Kosan's very nice newby tutorial for more. --David Chandler On Sun, Feb 10, 2013 at 12:46 PM, michel paul wrote: > Yeah, it can be slow. As they do say on the site, not necessarily > industrial strength, but could be useful for educational purposes. However, > who knows how it might be able to improve over time? > > > On Sun, Feb 10, 2013 at 10:33 AM, Dan Peirce wrote: > >> It looks impressive, but at the moment on line it appears to be >> amazingly slow even for simple calculations. >> >> On 2/10/13, michel paul wrote: >> > A student sent me this.: http://www.mathics.org/ >> > >> > It's Mathematica lite, for free. Though built with Python, Sage, and >> SymPy, >> > it accepts Mathematica syntax and provides much of its basic >> functionality. >> > >> > In an age where anyone can do genuinely high quality math in their >> browser >> > for free, that's what we should be showing the kids. I think things are >> > going to be heading more in that direction, not less. >> > >> > -- Michel >> > >> > =================================== >> > "What I cannot create, I do not understand." >> > >> > - Richard Feynman >> > =================================== >> > "Computer science is the new mathematics." >> > >> > - Dr. Christos Papadimitriou >> > =================================== >> > >> > > > > -- > =================================== > "What I cannot create, I do not understand." > > - Richard Feynman > =================================== > "Computer science is the new mathematics." > > - Dr. Christos Papadimitriou > =================================== > > _______________________________________________ > Edu-sig mailing list > Edu-sig at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/edu-sig > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pythonic.math at gmail.com Sun Feb 10 22:04:49 2013 From: pythonic.math at gmail.com (michel paul) Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2013 13:04:49 -0800 Subject: [Edu-sig] mathics - free alternative to Mathematica built on Python and SymPy In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Yeah, Sage is wonderful. The only problems I've experienced with it: - you can't rely on the public servers as frequently they will go down, and - having a bunch of students use them in a lab can create a bottleneck where everything is being seen as one IP. To use Sage effectively with a group you need to create your own Sage server. I don't see Mathics replacing Sage, but it's fun seeing it come into play. Students who might want to become familiar with Mathematica but don't have access to it now have a great resource. - Michel On Sun, Feb 10, 2013 at 12:53 PM, David Chandler < david at mathwithoutborders.com> wrote: > I've just started poking around with Sage, and it looks pretty good to > me. I don't see any big advantages using Mathics instead. For students > I'm planning to just present them with a limited set of commands, for the > topic at hand, and point them to Ted Kosan's very nice newby tutorial for > more. > --David Chandler > > > On Sun, Feb 10, 2013 at 12:46 PM, michel paul wrote: > >> Yeah, it can be slow. As they do say on the site, not necessarily >> industrial strength, but could be useful for educational purposes. However, >> who knows how it might be able to improve over time? >> >> >> On Sun, Feb 10, 2013 at 10:33 AM, Dan Peirce wrote: >> >>> It looks impressive, but at the moment on line it appears to be >>> amazingly slow even for simple calculations. >>> >>> On 2/10/13, michel paul wrote: >>> > A student sent me this.: http://www.mathics.org/ >>> > >>> > It's Mathematica lite, for free. Though built with Python, Sage, and >>> SymPy, >>> > it accepts Mathematica syntax and provides much of its basic >>> functionality. >>> > >>> > In an age where anyone can do genuinely high quality math in their >>> browser >>> > for free, that's what we should be showing the kids. I think things are >>> > going to be heading more in that direction, not less. >>> > >>> > -- Michel >>> > >>> > =================================== >>> > "What I cannot create, I do not understand." >>> > >>> > - Richard Feynman >>> > =================================== >>> > "Computer science is the new mathematics." >>> > >>> > - Dr. Christos Papadimitriou >>> > =================================== >>> > >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> =================================== >> "What I cannot create, I do not understand." >> >> - Richard Feynman >> =================================== >> "Computer science is the new mathematics." >> >> - Dr. Christos Papadimitriou >> =================================== >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Edu-sig mailing list >> Edu-sig at python.org >> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/edu-sig >> >> > -- =================================== "What I cannot create, I do not understand." - Richard Feynman =================================== "Computer science is the new mathematics." - Dr. Christos Papadimitriou =================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kurner at oreillyschool.com Fri Feb 15 02:33:51 2013 From: kurner at oreillyschool.com (Kirby Urner) Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2013 17:33:51 -0800 Subject: [Edu-sig] Overview to students re Python & GUIs: open to improvement Message-ID: Below is some "big picture" text I plan to use in my cut and paste in my comments back to a student after they pass one of our GUI projects, all Tk endeavors. I just cobbled it together today in fact. If any edu-sig subscriber sees aspects to which I am apparently blind and should mention, I'd be happy to write a next draft with more comprehensive overview. My goal is to provide some background. We only have three GUI projects (all in Tk) and then move on. I want students to appreciate the wider world in which they've but dabbled (of course any given student may have an extensive background in GUI stuff for all I know, this is not CS0 or CS1 in that we get people with decades of coding experience, just wanting to pick up Python as another tool in their tool belt). Kirby Urner O'Reilly School of Technology ==== Note that Python-the-language stays reasonably small in that GUI stuff is relegated to 3rd party libraries, with the exception of the bundled Tk, which we're using. The core language does not concern itself with any one particular widgets solution (in contrast, some languages incorporate widgets and are not easily used with anything 3rd party). There's also a nifty turtle module for doing turtle graphics implemented in Tk, as a part of the standard library. I encourage you to check it out. John Zelle is one of the authors (not an O'Reilly author) who exploits Tk in his introduction to Python courses. I've seen air traffic control system written in Python with a Tk canvas to show airplane position. All of which is to say: Tk, the library, is a really nice cross-platform GUI toolkit, but you are not limited to that, even in open source / free world. If GUI coding is your thing, make sure to check out (or read up on): wxPython, GTK+ and QT. In addition, Jython, the version of Python implemented in Java, gives you access to everything Java has. win32all extension library lets you tap in to native Windows GUI objects. IronPython, implemented in C#, gives you access to whatever your .NET or Mono platform has in store. In other words, Python-the-language is able to control a large and growing number of GUI widget libraries. Tk is a great example of one of them and in learning to control Tk, you're getting a taste of GUI event driven programming in general. I should add that a lot of GUI stuff is these days handled in the browser if possible, i.e you need to count HTML/CSS + JavaScript as a GUI layer. In that case. Python is typically server-side, updating JavaScript via JSON, but not directly in control of your widgets. From ipythonstudent at eml.cc Sun Feb 17 20:28:34 2013 From: ipythonstudent at eml.cc (Kevin) Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2013 14:28:34 -0500 Subject: [Edu-sig] New CopyrightX StackExchange Community (off-topic?) Message-ID: <1361129314.5399.140661192822841.3A52A3C1@webmail.messagingengine.com> Hi All, For anyone that sees this post as off-topic, I offer my apologies, but I kind-of feel like the subject of copyright is relevant to pretty much everything on The Internet, and especially germane to programming and education, so after thinking about it, I decided to post here. I'm one of 500 students from all over the world enrolled in a free Harvard Law School class taught through the auspices of the edX.org initiative. I feel very lucky to be participating in this course, and I've learned more about copyright in the last 3 weeks than in the previous 10 years I think. Amazing course! I've become so enthusiastic about the course and the subject that I'm trying to raise awareness about a StackExchange.com (SE) community that I just proposed yesterday and that I hope will ultimately attract many of my fellow students and other interested people from all over the world. I may be suffering from a bit of naivety, but I'm optimistic that this CopyrightX SE community might someday evolve to be a serious influence on copyright reform throughout the world. If anyone is interested, please consider following the community on SE by going here: and clicking the orange "Follow It!" button. Maybe even contribute a few example questions. Thanks and again, my apologies to anyone who perceives this as spam. -Kevin From andre.roberge at gmail.com Mon Feb 18 20:39:17 2013 From: andre.roberge at gmail.com (Andre Roberge) Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 15:39:17 -0400 Subject: [Edu-sig] Python testimonial sought... Message-ID: A few years ago (at least 5 I believe) I remember reading an account from two students who had to do a term project in their final CS year. They decided to do it in Python (which they had learned on their own) whereas everyone else was using something like C++ or Java which was taught in their department. From what I remember, they completed the required work in something like 4 weeks whereas no other student team managed to do it while working for the entire term. Does anyone remember this and, more crucially, would have a link to the original story? Andr? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From calcpage at aol.com Mon Feb 18 23:42:30 2013 From: calcpage at aol.com (A. Jorge Garcia) Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 17:42:30 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Edu-sig] Quarter III, Week 3: SmartNotes, ScreenCasts and Code, oh my! In-Reply-To: <8CFDB38DFB6C5A7-1390-1F4E5@webmail-m072.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CFDB38DFB6C5A7-1390-1F4E5@webmail-m072.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8CFDC405DD1FCB7-434-D391@webmail-m148.sysops.aol.com> Take a look at my CSH link in the blog listed below. CSH is my Computer Science Honors (SAGE/python) class which is a prerequisite for AP Computer Science (java). In CSH we usually run SAGE, but we used pure python from the command line for the first time ever this week! http://shadowfaxrant.blogspot.com/2013/02/quarter-iii-week-3-screencasts.html It's nothing too advanced. We're doing Binary Arithmetic, Boolean Logic, propositions, predicates and conditional statements right now. We wrote RockPaperScissors in SAGE automated with random choices for each player. We could not see a way to make it interactive in SAGE so the user could input choices and play against the computer, so we went with the CLI. In fact, I have a link on the CSH blog from programr.com so you can actually run the program yourself within the blog! You may also find my CIS(theta) link interesting. CIS is my Computing Independent Study class where we are using mpi4py on a Linux Cluster! Enjoy, A. Jorge Garcia Applied Math, Physics and CS http://shadowfaxrant.blogspot.com http://www.youtube.com/calcpage2009 From kirby.urner at gmail.com Tue Feb 19 03:05:17 2013 From: kirby.urner at gmail.com (kirby urner) Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 18:05:17 -0800 Subject: [Edu-sig] Python testimonial sought... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Andre -- My clearest memory along those lines was it was a "talking head" maybe Jeff Elkner himself in that student-made video about the virtues of Python. You may recall the video: there's an "old hippie" dad, a parody of a student's father. It's a kind of love story, where this girl show this boy how easy it is to learn this language. I actually thought it was kinda sweet and regret that it's no longer out there (or maybe it is). My recollection is way have several cutaway shots to teacher / experts who share their enthusiasm for this new language and it was in one of those interviews that the point is made that in C/C++ you just never get to tackle the kinds of projects Python allows because you're still mired in the details of setting up a memory file for graphics or whatever the low-level hell. Kirby On Mon, Feb 18, 2013 at 11:39 AM, Andre Roberge wrote: > A few years ago (at least 5 I believe) I remember reading an account from > two students who had to do a term project in their final CS year. They > decided to do it in Python (which they had learned on their own) whereas > everyone else was using something like C++ or Java which was taught in their > department. From what I remember, they completed the required work in > something like 4 weeks whereas no other student team managed to do it while > working for the entire term. > > Does anyone remember this and, more crucially, would have a link to the > original story? > > Andr? > > _______________________________________________ > Edu-sig mailing list > Edu-sig at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/edu-sig > From jeff at elkner.net Tue Feb 19 13:20:59 2013 From: jeff at elkner.net (Jeff Elkner) Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2013 07:20:59 -0500 Subject: [Edu-sig] Edu-sig Digest, Vol 115, Issue 10 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: That video is still available: http://openbookproject.net/pybiblio/pythonvideo.php On Tue, Feb 19, 2013 at 6:00 AM, wrote: > Send Edu-sig mailing list submissions to > edu-sig at python.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/edu-sig > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > edu-sig-request at python.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > edu-sig-owner at python.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Edu-sig digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Python testimonial sought... (Andre Roberge) > 2. Quarter III, Week 3: SmartNotes, ScreenCasts and Code, oh my! > (A. Jorge Garcia) > 3. Re: Python testimonial sought... (kirby urner) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 15:39:17 -0400 > From: Andre Roberge > To: "edu-sig at python.org" > Subject: [Edu-sig] Python testimonial sought... > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > A few years ago (at least 5 I believe) I remember reading an account from > two students who had to do a term project in their final CS year. They > decided to do it in Python (which they had learned on their own) whereas > everyone else was using something like C++ or Java which was taught in > their department. From what I remember, they completed the required work > in something like 4 weeks whereas no other student team managed to do it > while working for the entire term. > > Does anyone remember this and, more crucially, would have a link to the > original story? > > Andr? > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 17:42:30 -0500 (EST) > From: "A. Jorge Garcia" > To: calcpage at aol.com, edu-sig at python.org > Subject: [Edu-sig] Quarter III, Week 3: SmartNotes, ScreenCasts and > Code, oh my! > Message-ID: <8CFDC405DD1FCB7-434-D391 at webmail-m148.sysops.aol.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed > > Take a look at my CSH link in the blog listed below. CSH is my Computer > Science Honors (SAGE/python) class which is a prerequisite for AP > Computer Science (java). In CSH we usually run SAGE, but we used pure > python from the command line for the first time ever this week! > > http://shadowfaxrant.blogspot.com/2013/02/quarter-iii-week-3-screencasts.html > > It's nothing too advanced. We're doing Binary Arithmetic, Boolean > Logic, propositions, predicates and conditional statements right now. > We wrote RockPaperScissors in SAGE automated with random choices for > each player. We could not see a way to make it interactive in SAGE so > the user could input choices and play against the computer, so we went > with the CLI. In fact, I have a link on the CSH blog from programr.com > so you can actually run the program yourself within the blog! > > You may also find my CIS(theta) link interesting. CIS is my Computing > Independent Study class where we are using mpi4py on a Linux Cluster! > > Enjoy, > A. Jorge Garcia > Applied Math, Physics and CS > http://shadowfaxrant.blogspot.com > http://www.youtube.com/calcpage2009 > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 18:05:17 -0800 > From: kirby urner > To: Andre Roberge > Cc: "edu-sig at python.org" > Subject: Re: [Edu-sig] Python testimonial sought... > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > Hi Andre -- > > My clearest memory along those lines was it was a "talking head" maybe > Jeff Elkner himself in that student-made video about the virtues of > Python. > > You may recall the video: there's an "old hippie" dad, a parody of a > student's father. It's a kind of love story, where this girl show > this boy how easy it is to learn this language. I actually thought it > was kinda sweet and regret that it's no longer out there (or maybe it > is). > > My recollection is way have several cutaway shots to teacher / experts > who share their enthusiasm for this new language and it was in one of > those interviews that the point is made that in C/C++ you just never > get to tackle the kinds of projects Python allows because you're still > mired in the details of setting up a memory file for graphics or > whatever the low-level hell. > > Kirby > > > On Mon, Feb 18, 2013 at 11:39 AM, Andre Roberge wrote: >> A few years ago (at least 5 I believe) I remember reading an account from >> two students who had to do a term project in their final CS year. They >> decided to do it in Python (which they had learned on their own) whereas >> everyone else was using something like C++ or Java which was taught in their >> department. From what I remember, they completed the required work in >> something like 4 weeks whereas no other student team managed to do it while >> working for the entire term. >> >> Does anyone remember this and, more crucially, would have a link to the >> original story? >> >> Andr? >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Edu-sig mailing list >> Edu-sig at python.org >> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/edu-sig >> > > > ------------------------------ > > Subject: Digest Footer > > _______________________________________________ > Edu-sig mailing list > Edu-sig at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/edu-sig > > > ------------------------------ > > End of Edu-sig Digest, Vol 115, Issue 10 > **************************************** From andre.roberge at gmail.com Tue Feb 19 20:03:11 2013 From: andre.roberge at gmail.com (Andre Roberge) Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2013 15:03:11 -0400 Subject: [Edu-sig] Python testimonial sought... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks for the info Kirby and to Jeff for finding the link. Unfortunately, that was not it. (I did watch the entire video) What I am looking for was something written by a fourth-year University student about a final year project. Andr? On Mon, Feb 18, 2013 at 10:05 PM, kirby urner wrote: > Hi Andre -- > > My clearest memory along those lines was it was a "talking head" maybe > Jeff Elkner himself in that student-made video about the virtues of > Python. > > You may recall the video: there's an "old hippie" dad, a parody of a > student's father. It's a kind of love story, where this girl show > this boy how easy it is to learn this language. I actually thought it > was kinda sweet and regret that it's no longer out there (or maybe it > is). > > My recollection is way have several cutaway shots to teacher / experts > who share their enthusiasm for this new language and it was in one of > those interviews that the point is made that in C/C++ you just never > get to tackle the kinds of projects Python allows because you're still > mired in the details of setting up a memory file for graphics or > whatever the low-level hell. > > Kirby > > > On Mon, Feb 18, 2013 at 11:39 AM, Andre Roberge > wrote: > > A few years ago (at least 5 I believe) I remember reading an account from > > two students who had to do a term project in their final CS year. They > > decided to do it in Python (which they had learned on their own) whereas > > everyone else was using something like C++ or Java which was taught in > their > > department. From what I remember, they completed the required work in > > something like 4 weeks whereas no other student team managed to do it > while > > working for the entire term. > > > > Does anyone remember this and, more crucially, would have a link to the > > original story? > > > > Andr? > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Edu-sig mailing list > > Edu-sig at python.org > > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/edu-sig > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kirby.urner at gmail.com Wed Feb 20 00:06:58 2013 From: kirby.urner at gmail.com (kirby urner) Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2013 15:06:58 -0800 Subject: [Edu-sig] Python testimonial sought... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Sorry for the false lead. I'll keep my antennae up. Jeff, thanks for posting that link, glad to know that video is still available. Kirby On Tue, Feb 19, 2013 at 11:03 AM, Andre Roberge wrote: > Thanks for the info Kirby and to Jeff for finding the link. Unfortunately, > that was not it. (I did watch the entire video) What I am looking for was > something written by a fourth-year University student about a final year > project. > > Andr? > > > On Mon, Feb 18, 2013 at 10:05 PM, kirby urner wrote: >> >> Hi Andre -- >> >> My clearest memory along those lines was it was a "talking head" maybe >> Jeff Elkner himself in that student-made video about the virtues of >> Python. >> >> You may recall the video: there's an "old hippie" dad, a parody of a >> student's father. It's a kind of love story, where this girl show >> this boy how easy it is to learn this language. I actually thought it >> was kinda sweet and regret that it's no longer out there (or maybe it >> is). >> >> My recollection is way have several cutaway shots to teacher / experts >> who share their enthusiasm for this new language and it was in one of >> those interviews that the point is made that in C/C++ you just never >> get to tackle the kinds of projects Python allows because you're still >> mired in the details of setting up a memory file for graphics or >> whatever the low-level hell. >> >> Kirby >> >> >> On Mon, Feb 18, 2013 at 11:39 AM, Andre Roberge >> wrote: >> > A few years ago (at least 5 I believe) I remember reading an account >> > from >> > two students who had to do a term project in their final CS year. They >> > decided to do it in Python (which they had learned on their own) whereas >> > everyone else was using something like C++ or Java which was taught in >> > their >> > department. From what I remember, they completed the required work in >> > something like 4 weeks whereas no other student team managed to do it >> > while >> > working for the entire term. >> > >> > Does anyone remember this and, more crucially, would have a link to the >> > original story? >> > >> > Andr? >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Edu-sig mailing list >> > Edu-sig at python.org >> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/edu-sig >> > > > From jeff at elkner.net Wed Feb 20 12:54:28 2013 From: jeff at elkner.net (jeff at elkner.net) Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2013 11:54:28 +0000 Subject: [Edu-sig] jeff@elkner.net wants to follow you. Accept? Message-ID: <0.0.C7.76B.1CE0F6109706234.18F9@mail8.infoaxe.net> Hi, Jeffrey Elkner wants to follow you. ****** Is Jeffrey Elkner you friend? ****** If Yes please follow the link below: http://invites.infoaxe.net/signup_e.html?fullname=&email=edu-sig at python.org&invitername=Jeffrey&inviterid=14000775&userid=0&token=0&emailid=1007a747-c42d-4030-b5ee-23961457973f&uie=0&src=txt_yes If No please follow the link below: http://invites.infoaxe.net/signup_e_no.html?fullname=&email=edu-sig at python.org&invitername=Jeffrey&inviterid=14000775&userid=0&token=0&emailid=1007a747-c42d-4030-b5ee-23961457973f&uie=0&src=txt_no Follow the link below to unsubscribe from all emails from Flipora, 440 N.Wolfe Rd MS #153, Sunnyvale, CA. 94085 http://invites.infoaxe.net/unsubscribe.jsp?email=edu-sig at python.org&iid=1007a747-c42d-4030-b5ee-23961457973f&src=txt -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ajith at iuac.res.in Sat Feb 23 01:52:57 2013 From: ajith at iuac.res.in (Ajith Kumar) Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2013 06:22:57 +0530 Subject: [Edu-sig] Python for Science & Electronics experiments Message-ID: Hello, There exists a low cost tool, called expEYES , to learn science by experiments developed in Python. Real time measurements are done in Python with the help of external hardware (also open source, availablecommercially). Users manual & programmers manua l. Also there is a GFDLd book on Python available, along with acode browserprogram. Ajith -- Dr. Ajith Kumar B.P. Scientist SH Inter-University Accelerator Centre Aruna Asaf Ali Marg New Delhi 110067 www.iuac.res.in Ph: (off) 91 11 26893955 (Ext.230) (res)91 11 26897867 (mob) 91 9868150852 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: