[Edu-sig] Joining my first SIG - Panel

Mon Oct 25 03:28:30 CEST 2010

On Sun, Oct 24, 2010 at 8:17 PM, Helene Martin <lognaturel at gmail.com> wrote:

> Thanks for sharing your experience.  You're right that dealing with
> limitations is a very important lesson.  I envy your access to Linux
> machines!  I like your story about the girls' complex dance.
> Sometimes the process is much, much more important than the result.
>
> > That's impressive. We're just getting to the image processing stuff after
> 8
> > weeks, but then, most of them are new to programming. But as I said, we
> have
> > covered creating modules, basic control structures, and the like, all in
> the
> > context of programming the scribblers.
>
> To be clear, this is after 13 weeks or so of other programming!  So
> really it's not all that different from the schedule you're
> describing.  8 weeks to image processing actually sounds pretty
> ambitious.  Can you share with us how many days you see your students
> and for how many hours, what kind of homework you give them (I give
> none) and things like that?  Apologies if you have before but I don't
> remember seeing it.  Are you alone with the 7 or do you have to teach
> another class simultaneously?
>

I have the 7 for about 40 minutes a day, with nothing else going on. I
realize this is a huge luxury. That means I can have them all working on
projects in pairs or individually and still give pretty close attention to
everyone, which makes a free-er form, project based approach possible. So
while we started the year with me setting them specific challenges, they
started picking their own projects (at first from my suggestions, now
increasingly from their own ideas) a couple of weeks ago. So while we're
talking about image processing in class, I'm pretty sure that they won't all
be doing the exact same thing. Right now several of them are experimenting
with looping over the pixels and changing the color values, so I expect
picking up particular colored shapes will be next. We've discussed the idea
of homing in on yellow tennis ball, for example, to see if we can make a bot
push the ball (we're a big soccer school ;) ) and things like that.

The other thing I want to try with them is seeing what behaviors we can get
going, things like hiding from light (or homing in on light), etc, or maybe
having them seek other blue robots, and seeing what might happen.

Of course, if someone gets an interesting project idea, I let them keep
working on it. At the moment one kid has the idea of using the turtle module
to draw a pattern, storing it, and then having the robot follow that
pattern. He knows that the bots are unreliable, but he wants to see how well
he can make it work, so I said OK. What he'll learn about user interfaces,
program flow, queues, namespaces, etc will probably be deeper than anything
I would do in a traditional beginning programming class.

So to be honest, this is the most undisciplined, free form,
do-it-just-cuz-you're-curious-about-it programming class I've ever taught.
And what I've lost in covering the details and in keeping everyone together,
I feel I (and the kids) have more than gained back in engagement,
understanding and sheer joy of discovery. At least that's how it feels so
far. :)

Cheers,
Vern

> On Sun, Oct 24, 2010 at 5:12 PM, Vern Ceder <vceder at canterburyschool.org>
> wrote:
> > On Sun, Oct 24, 2010 at 6:29 PM, Helene Martin <lognaturel at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>
> >> Hi Vern,
> >>
> >> I always have trouble with bluetooth interference, changing COM ports
> >> (probably a Windows XP "feature"), low batteries and so on.  Of
> >>
> >> course, these issues are probably aggravated by having 60 students
> >> working with them over 220 minutes in a day but I imagine they show up
> >> at any scale.  At first, the students find it quaint and put up with
> >> it but I've found that their tolerance for the quirks is finite, as is
> >> mine.  I hesitate to teach Python basics using the platform for those
> >> reasons.  Do you share those problems?  How do you address them?
> >
> > The bluetooth problem is pretty much taken care of by using the dedicated
> > Linux laptops - as long as I can set them up without the others on, it's
> no
> > problem and we don't have any real trouble with that. The battery issue
> is
> > real - as the voltage goes down the bot's behavior changes, and I shudder
> to
> > think of the number of batteries we've burned through. OTOH, I don't see
> > such quirks as obstacles to programming, but rather factors that can be
> at
> > least partly mitigated with code.
> >
> > So we acknowledge the frustration and try (not always successfully, which
> is
> > in itself a lesson) to deal with it.  All of my kids are used to reading
> the
> > battery state frequently in their code, and they're experimenting to find
> > what they can do within the limitations of the machines. And failure, (as
> > they say on Mythbusters) is always and option. However, a "failure" that
> > establishes just how far the robot can be pushed earns an A, as for
> example
> > a pair of girls who tried to have their two robots perform a complex
> > interactive dance. They did a good job - analyzing the problems, trying
> to
> > code solutions, but in the end the hardware wasn't up to the task and
> they
> > could tell you exactly why and how things didn't work. That's a success
> in
> > my book and I let them know that.
> >
> >>
> >> That's one of the big reasons that I only do about two weeks with the
> >> 'bots.  That's also about the time it takes us to get through the
> >> Georgia Tech exercises (with students already knowing Python basics).
> >
> > That's impressive. We're just getting to the image processing stuff after
> 8
> > weeks, but then, most of them are new to programming. But as I said, we
> have
> > covered creating modules, basic control structures, and the like, all in
> the
> > context of programming the scribblers.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Vern
> >
> >> On Sat, Oct 23, 2010 at 8:51 PM, Vern Ceder <
> vceder at canterburyschool.org>
> >> wrote:
> >> > On Sat, Oct 23, 2010 at 11:24 PM, Zac Miller <zmiller at gsc.edu> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> Hello Vern,
> >> >>
> >> >> The scribbler robots seem to be pretty popular from the replies I've
> >> >> been
> >> >> getting here.  We bought one of the robots to experiment with and the
> >> >> students really enjoy working with it.  How many of the robots do you
> >> >> use?
> >> >>  What kind of robot to student ratio?
> >> >
> >> > I have seven students and each has their own scribbler and dedicated
> >> > laptop
> >> > (they're old, retired laptops running Debian Linux) since having a
> >> > dedicated
> >> > laptop cuts down on the hassle/time of pairing the bluetooth board.
> >> > Most of those students are new to programming and we're using the
> >> > scribblers
> >> > for the whole semester, sort of following the same process as GA Tech
> >> > does.
> >> > A couple of the experienced programmers are moving on to more advanced
> >> > projects, though. In working with the scribblers, they've learned if
> >> > statements, functions, loops, how to create and use separate modules,
> >> > share
> >> > code, and now are getting to the point of using the camera to grab and
> >> > process images and use that information to control the robots. A
> couple
> >> > of
> >> > the advanced kids have written multi-threaded apps to both drive the
> bot
> >> > and
> >> > have it automatically avoid obstacles. It depends on what you want to
> >> > do,
> >> > but scribbler/fluke combo has a lot of potential.
> >> >>
> >> >> I think that a panel discussion with an established program like
> yours
> >> >> and
> >> >> a start up like mine may be interesting, maybe we could add a third
> and
> >> >> work
> >> >> out the details in private email.  Anyone else interested?
> >> >
> >> > +1
> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >> I'm interested in doing a poster as well.  I will be working it all
> out
> >> >> this week since the talk proposal deadline is 1 November.
> >> >
> >> > Good. The final poster submission deadline is January 19, but we have
> a
> >> > limit of 35 posters and are accepting them on a rolling basis.
> >> > Acceptance of
> >> > a poster is not tied to whether or not a talk is accepted.
> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >> -J. Zachary Miller
> >> >>
> >> > Cheers,
> >> > Vern
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >> ________________________________
> >> >> From: Vern Ceder [vceder at canterburyschool.org]
> >> >> Sent: Saturday, October 23, 2010 7:55 PM
> >> >> To: Zac Miller
> >> >> Cc: edu-sig at python.org
> >> >> Subject: Re: [Edu-sig] Joining my first SIG
> >> >>
> >> >> Hi Zac,
> >> >>
> >> >> On Sat, Oct 23, 2010 at 6:39 PM, Zac Miller
> >> >> <zmiller at gsc.edu<mailto:zmiller at gsc.edu>> wrote:
> >> >> Hello!
> >> >>
> >> >> I've just joined this SIG, my first, and looked over a few of the
> >> >> archived
> >> >> threads from last few months.  My name is Zac Miller and I am
> currently
> >> >> teaching Python programming to college and middle school level
> >> >> students.
> >> >>
> >> >> I am curious if there are many K12 educators involved in this SIG?  I
> >> >> am
> >> >> looking for people to discuss my student's progress with and it seems
> >> >> to be
> >> >> hard to find others using Python in this setting.
> >> >>
> >> >> I'm the technology director and programming teacher at Canterbury, a
> >> >> private school in Ft Wayne, IN. We've been teaching at least a little
> >> >> Python
> >> >> to every single 8th and 9th grader in the school since 2001, as well
> as
> >> >> offering electives in Python, Java, C, etc.
> >> >>
> >> >> Right now, our Python class is using the same robot/bluetooth board
> >> >> that
> >> >> Georgia Tech uses (http://wiki.roboteducation.org) which has been a
> >> >> blast.
> >> >> I'm also teaching an online Python enrichment course to middle school
> >> >> kids
> >> >> through Northwestern University's Gifted Learning Links program
> >> >> (http://www.ctd.northwestern.edu/gll/courses/enrichment/courses/),
> >> >> using
> >> >> Warren and Carter Sande's _Hello, World!_.
> >> >>
> >> >> As André mentioned there are a few of us on this list, so go ahead
> and
> >> >> raise your questions.
> >> >>
> >> >> I am also considering putting together a talk proposal for PyCon
> 2011.
> >> >>  So
> >> >> far my ideas for a talk would be a brief introduction of myself and
> my
> >> >> experiences learning and teaching Python in the past year.  I
> attended
> >> >> PyCon
> >> >> 2010 as student.  Beyond that brief introduction I would like to
> >> >> discuss the
> >> >> state of programming in K12 education in the state of Georgia, as
> much
> >> >> of it
> >> >> as I have been able to untangle, and ideas for improving it.
> >> >>
> >> >> I've completed a few open record requests to the Georgia Department
> of
> >> >> Education pulling enrollment number for programming and computer
> >> >> science
> >> >> courses for the entire state.  What would make for an interested
> PyCon
> >> >> talk
> >> >> on K12 education involving Python?  Does anyone have similar data or
> a
> >> >> summary of programming education for another state they wouldn't mind
> >> >> sharing for me to use as comparison?  Anyone interested in doing a
> >> >> Panel
> >> >> proposal?
> >> >>
> >> >> I'd be available for a panel, and would be willing to work on a
> >> >> proposal,
> >> >> but don't think I have the time to be a main organizer of one...
> Also,
> >> >> as
> >> >> the chair of PyCon's poster session, let me encourage you to consider
> >> >> presenting some of your findings as a poster. Even if you submit a
> talk
> >> >> or
> >> >> panel (and even if they get turned down) you can still submit a
> poster
> >> >> proposal.
> >> >>
> >> >> Cheers,
> >> >> Vern Ceder
> >> >>
> >> >> Thanks!
> >> >>
> >> >> -J. Zachary Miller
> >> >> _______________________________________________
> >> >> Edu-sig mailing list
> >> >> Edu-sig at python.org<mailto:Edu-sig at python.org>
> >> >> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/edu-sig
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> --
> >> >> This time for sure!
> >> >>   -Bullwinkle J. Moose
> >> >> -----------------------------
> >> >> Vern Ceder, Director of Technology
> >> >> Canterbury School, 3210 Smith Road, Ft Wayne, IN 46804
> >> >> vceder at canterburyschool.org<mailto:vceder at canterburyschool.org>;
> >> >> 260-436-0746; FAX: 260-436-5137
> >> >>
> >> >> The Quick Python Book, 2nd Ed - http://bit.ly/bRsWDW
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > --
> >> > This time for sure!
> >> >    -Bullwinkle J. Moose
> >> > -----------------------------
> >> > Vern Ceder, Director of Technology
> >> > Canterbury School, 3210 Smith Road, Ft Wayne, IN 46804
> >> > vceder at canterburyschool.org; 260-436-0746; FAX: 260-436-5137
> >> >
> >> > The Quick Python Book, 2nd Ed - http://bit.ly/bRsWDW
> >> >
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > Edu-sig mailing list
> >> > Edu-sig at python.org
> >> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/edu-sig
> >> >
> >> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > This time for sure!
> >    -Bullwinkle J. Moose
> > -----------------------------
> > Vern Ceder, Director of Technology
> > Canterbury School, 3210 Smith Road, Ft Wayne, IN 46804
> > vceder at canterburyschool.org; 260-436-0746; FAX: 260-436-5137
> >
> > The Quick Python Book, 2nd Ed - http://bit.ly/bRsWDW
> >
>

-- 
This time for sure!
   -Bullwinkle J. Moose
-----------------------------
Vern Ceder, Director of Technology
Canterbury School, 3210 Smith Road, Ft Wayne, IN 46804
vceder at canterburyschool.org; 260-436-0746; FAX: 260-436-5137

The Quick Python Book, 2nd Ed - http://bit.ly/bRsWDW
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